| 00:02.25 | Gnarfoz | (you know you can turn those alerts off, if you don't want them?) |
| 00:19.01 | karl_w_w | yeah, who'd want to know about impending tsunamis? |
| 00:28.59 | Dashkal | Not me! Let my impeding doom be swift and unexpected. |
| 00:30.23 | kd3 | get me your gps coordinates, we can send a drone in your direction |
| 00:30.44 | Dashkal | hmm, who's coordinates do I want to feed you >.> |
| 00:33.27 | Gnarfoz | I certainly don't want to know about impending tsunamis |
| 00:33.58 | Gnarfoz | also, that's not the only category available |
| 00:34.21 | Dashkal | I actually would, since there's plenty I could do to get out of the way with a couple hours notice |
| 00:34.31 | Dashkal | Vancouver is kinda crumpled. I could get to high ground pretty fast |
| 00:34.33 | Gnarfoz | not that AMBER alerts exist here, but I probably don't give a shit about them when my phone is muted (for a reason) |
| 00:35.02 | nevcairiel | have you ever gotten anything like that Gnarfoz? |
| 00:35.12 | Gnarfoz | not yet |
| 00:35.25 | Gnarfoz | I heard some network tested it before, though? might misremember |
| 00:35.46 | nevcairiel | if tv shows can be trusted, amber alerts are used in the US apparently |
| 00:35.54 | nevcairiel | but then, knowledge out of tv shows.... :D |
| 00:35.57 | Gnarfoz | of course |
| 00:36.31 | Gnarfoz | nah, they're not fictional :p |
| 00:36.57 | Gnarfoz | and obviously all of these alert features only exist because US ;) |
| 00:37.22 | nevcairiel | its not like we often encounter any of those things in germany |
| 00:37.39 | Gnarfoz | precisely why I turn them off |
| 00:37.41 | nevcairiel | i mean, child abducations do sadly happen now and then, but if they dont use the thing then.. |
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| 00:37.54 | nevcairiel | because if they happen you wouldnt want to know? :P |
| 00:38.08 | Gnarfoz | I wouldn't want to know if my phone is turned to silent, no |
| 00:38.12 | Gnarfoz | which these alerts override |
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| 01:27.35 | karl_w_w | ooh $6 spec ops the line |
| 02:13.32 | pompy1 | karl_w_w: vote for the KSP comm choice! lol |
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| 02:40.46 | karl_w_w | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5E-LrbGzGA0 that ended really funny |
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| 02:50.52 | Arrowmaster | so how is everybody doing |
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| 02:55.14 | Arrowmaster | nobody? |
| 02:56.33 | Amarande | waiting for my new motherboard to come tomorrow from UPS |
| 02:56.42 | Amarande | apparently the sound has gone wonky on my maximus |
| 02:56.48 | Amarande | or crapximus as I've started calling it |
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| 02:57.12 | Amarande | since it has no pci slots and pci-e sound cards of any worth cost as much as a new mobo anyway it seems, new mobo was purchased |
| 02:57.38 | Amarande | watch, the $75 mobo will be infinitely more long lasting and reliable than the $200 one |
| 02:57.54 | Amarande | this always happens |
| 02:58.12 | Amarande | I've bought, in recent memory, and counting the one coming, three mobos that were each under $100 and two that were over that price |
| 02:58.57 | TC-Work | Arrowmaster: Uh, fine. |
| 02:59.03 | Arrowmaster | last one i bought was $400 |
| 02:59.18 | Arrowmaster | never did get all of that value out of it |
| 02:59.27 | TC-Work | It's better if no one answers, it means people are living |
| 02:59.42 | Amarande | Gigabyte GA-970A-DS3 (still works fine, it's in my old computer that I had before I went to the Xeon), ASRock B85 Pro4 (on a truck between Joisey and here), and an ASUS P8B75-V (which was MOSTLY fine but has two dead DIMM slots so went disused) |
| 02:59.51 | Amarande | those were the cheap ones |
| 03:00.00 | Arrowmaster | ive got to stay up tonight so i can stay up for the night shift tomorrow |
| 03:00.37 | Amarande | the expensive ones: an Intel DZ68DB (first unit was DOA, took me 3 weeks of shipping wait to get a replacement due to time of year and distance even though newegg RMA processing was great, and second unit I seem to recall had a hard time with BIOS updates) and an ASUS Maximus VI Gene (mostly works fine but for the sound gone wonky after only 3 months) |
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| 03:01.04 | Amarande | apparently the Maximus boards have some kind of weird arse issue where the sound chip starts thinking the green speaker out is an input |
| 03:01.12 | Arrowmaster | TC-Work: but its a monday night whos out living on monday nights |
| 03:01.21 | Amarande | thus won't send sound out over it, so you can't get sound from speakers (unless you treat them as headphones) |
| 03:02.01 | Amarande | and the only way I've seen to override it is some low level voodoo with hda-verb on linux, which disappears on reboot so can't be carried over to windows |
| 03:02.08 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: did it come with a card slot with more audio ports? |
| 03:02.15 | Amarande | Arrowmaster: nope |
| 03:02.49 | Arrowmaster | ive seen that behavior in the past on boards with 3 ports on the board and 3 on another card you pulled into pin headers |
| 03:03.04 | Arrowmaster | or close enough numbers or ports |
| 03:03.05 | Iriel | Sounds like card mis-initialization during boot? |
| 03:03.06 | Amarande | but it does seem like the expensive boards encounter issues more often |
| 03:03.11 | Amarande | while the cheap boards are super reliable |
| 03:03.25 | Amarande | Iriel: not entirely sure, seeing as the problem affects both linux and windows |
| 03:03.28 | Iriel | Probably because there are fewer of the expensive cards in the hands of the people who can be bothered to track down and fix the issues, and they’re more likely to do somehting “odd" |
| 03:03.44 | Iriel | Amarande: Interesting — bad firmware? |
| 03:03.51 | Amarande | the only thing that would have changed boot behaviour though would have been the recent BIOS update flash |
| 03:04.06 | Amarande | and I'd booted into Windows fine several times after that flash without incident |
| 03:04.19 | Amarande | interestingly the problem first cropped up when I first decided to try Linux |
| 03:04.36 | Iriel | Does the card have some NVRAM of its own which has gotten into a wierd state? |
| 03:04.38 | Amarande | however, as noted in #alsa, the card settings stuff appears to go away on reboot |
| 03:04.49 | Amarande | and the problem persisted on attempt to go back to windows |
| 03:05.03 | Amarande | not sure, I'm not familiar with exactly how this ASUS SupremeFX stuff works except it's based at core on a Realtek ALC1150 |
| 03:05.15 | Amarande | (also that realtek alc1150 is apparently finickier than Morris the Cat) |
| 03:07.48 | Arrowmaster | holy shit this is unheard of, ive got plans to do something every weekend until the end of july except for the weekend of the 4th |
| 03:08.00 | Amarande | what I'm not sure about is if this is actually broken to the point I should try to warranty the board with asus |
| 03:08.05 | Amarande | or if I'd be better off just putting the thing up on CL |
| 03:08.19 | Amarande | I've never done a craigslist ad before though so I'll have to figure out how to sell it if I do that |
| 03:09.09 | Amarande | not ebay, since I happen to know ebay has a support group for anyone who puts expensive electronics on it these days. know what it's called? |
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| 03:34.49 | Thunder_Child | Arrowmaster: People with lives. |
| 03:36.25 | nevcairiel | as long as its not like my usual plans "play game x this weekend" :P |
| 03:36.50 | Arrowmaster | i went out this weekend and had the time of my life |
| 03:36.54 | Arrowmaster | plan to do it more |
| 03:38.00 | nevcairiel | i already have the two weekends planned out after i get back from the US, well, strictly speaking in both cases its only one day of the weekend, but hey! |
| 03:38.22 | nevcairiel | friends from AU are visiting, got lots to do |
| 03:39.36 | Arrowmaster | i went out friday night and didnt get back till sunday morning |
| 03:40.37 | Amarande | nevcairiel: heh, I didn't get any gaming in this weekend |
| 03:40.40 | Amarande | damn you Linux |
| 03:40.49 | Amarande | that's the last time I try to use linux on my main gaming PC, methinks |
| 03:41.12 | Amarande | It'll remain as it was, for live use for maintenance/recovery tasks, and for putting older PCs out to pasture |
| 03:41.20 | Amarande | and VM usage as needed |
| 03:41.52 | Amarande | hm, wonder if people are still insisting the sky is falling regarding professions in WoD (heck, even someone in /2 insisted it'll kill professions, *sigh* *headdesk*) |
| 03:42.12 | Amarande | I thought pretty long about it, and it seems to me that the only profession that may be severely impacted by WoD as we know it atm is Blacksmithing |
| 03:42.20 | nevcairiel | it'll most certainly change the way professions are integrated into the economy entirely |
| 03:42.29 | nevcairiel | depending on how much you can do with your npcs |
| 03:42.30 | Amarande | which seems like it may very well become something only the diehards stick with, heh |
| 03:42.43 | Amarande | unless it's going to get some sort of huge improvement we don't know about yet |
| 03:43.22 | Amarande | way I analysed it: Enchanting/JC/Alchemy = all core needs for raiding, no way will those lose their lustre; Inscription/LW/Tailoring = if nothing else, you need these for specific slot enchants, so they're still core needs |
| 03:43.26 | nevcairiel | of course a bunch of people are going to be too lazy to manage the professions in the garrison and still buy stuff |
| 03:43.48 | Amarande | Engineering is the quirky fun profession, people already mostly pick it more for its fun aspects than its practical ones no? |
| 03:43.49 | nevcairiel | what if an NPC is going to sell you the enchants |
| 03:44.07 | Amarande | so that should be safe ... but Blacksmithing seems to just be expensive and have little benefit with the perks gone |
| 03:44.08 | nevcairiel | or produce them for you, w/e |
| 03:44.24 | Amarande | nevcairiel: somehow I'd doubt they'd let NPCs make your enchants for you without some form of input from the character |
| 03:44.43 | nevcairiel | obviously you have to feed it materials and whatnot |
| 03:44.53 | Amarande | I can only imagine either they'd only be selling recipes, or else something like SW:TOR where while your companions do the actual crafting, YOU have to learn the recipes and skill up |
| 03:45.04 | nevcairiel | and JC is going down on its own with much much much less sockets to go around |
| 03:45.29 | nevcairiel | and much less enchants as well |
| 03:45.37 | Amarande | (I actually like that system, because it means you can continue to quest or raid or whatnot while your companions work on the crafting ... the only real downside it has is how long it takes to craft high level items, top level purple stuff can take an hour for one item) |
| 03:45.40 | nevcairiel | they dont want every item to go through 3 modifications before you can use it |
| 03:45.52 | Shirik | my gym has wifi now o.o |
| 03:46.01 | Shirik | which means I can stream spotify to my phone |
| 03:46.04 | Amarande | fewer sockets? are only specific items getting sockets for wod or is it more like things that had 3 will have only 1 or 2 more often? |
| 03:46.20 | nevcairiel | there will be no base sockets anymore |
| 03:46.29 | nevcairiel | read the patch notes :P |
| 03:46.59 | nevcairiel | no item has sockets "by itself", you get a random chance for every item to have an extra socket, a small chance at that |
| 03:47.15 | nevcairiel | (even crafted items) |
| 03:47.40 | nevcairiel | they were very explicit that the number of sockets you will have will go down drastically |
| 03:47.51 | Amarande | nev: sure it's in the patch notes? there's no mention of even the word "socket" at all in the latest alpha notes on bnet's page |
| 03:47.52 | nevcairiel | same with the number of enchants you'll need |
| 03:47.57 | Amarande | firefox said "word not found" |
| 03:48.35 | Amarande | hm, there going to be some kind of item to add the socket to items that lack it, like the augment kits in SW:TOR? |
| 03:49.05 | nevcairiel | doubtful |
| 03:49.07 | Amarande | or is raiding (probably mainly at the heroic/mythic tier, I suppose) going to heavily centre around reruns to hope that the socketed version of item X drops in order to get that little bit of extra power? |
| 03:49.17 | nevcairiel | they want it to be a reason to continue run content for small upgrades |
| 03:49.35 | nevcairiel | its not only sockets, items can have various additional random bonus stats |
| 03:49.51 | nevcairiel | sockets, being warforged, or get a tertiary stat (which they renamed to something else, which i forgot now) |
| 03:49.55 | Amarande | okay, who let the torchlight team back into blizzard :D |
| 03:50.20 | Amarande | This ... sounds like most higher end items in Torchlight, LOL |
| 03:50.27 | Amarande | or D3 |
| 03:51.11 | Amarande | as for enchants, except for the ring enchants going away presumably (since those are 'combat advantage' for enchanters) |
| 03:51.23 | Amarande | what else is going? |
| 03:51.38 | nevcairiel | i saw a few ring enchants, maybe those are available to all classes now |
| 03:51.51 | nevcairiel | all players* |
| 03:52.01 | Amarande | again this doesn't seem like it's in the patch notes, the only thing I've seen about enchants in the patch notes is things like how gems/enchants that gave removed stats will be changed, and the upgrade to movement speed chants |
| 03:52.23 | nevcairiel | think they were still preparing the final section about professions |
| 03:52.46 | Amarande | yeah, last I had heard the profession specifics are still being hashed out |
| 03:53.01 | Amarande | are BoP crafted items (e.g. engi goggles, alchemist stones etc.) still in, or considered perks and being phased out? |
| 03:53.23 | nevcairiel | from what I can see in the recipe list, there are weapon enchants, ring enchants and cloak enchants |
| 03:53.25 | nevcairiel | and thats it |
| 03:53.51 | nevcairiel | obviously its alpha and subject to change |
| 03:53.52 | Amarande | ah, no more spellthread and leg armour either? |
| 03:54.04 | nevcairiel | no idea, only checked enchanting |
| 03:54.23 | nevcairiel | oh, a amulet enchant was hiding there |
| 03:54.27 | Amarande | wow, that's new |
| 03:54.35 | Amarande | there's never been neck enchants at all hitherto |
| 03:54.46 | Amarande | seems strange that they'd say "we want less enchants" and then add chants for a new slot altogether :) |
| 03:54.59 | nevcairiel | well its 4 enchant slots |
| 03:55.04 | Mr_Rabies | reason is |
| 03:55.04 | nevcairiel | vs. how many before? |
| 03:55.11 | Mr_Rabies | amulets don't change stats |
| 03:55.14 | Mr_Rabies | when you change spec |
| 03:55.24 | Mr_Rabies | so it'll be good to have specialized enchants on those pieces |
| 03:55.43 | Amarande | ah, they're trying to encourage people to swap specs more often, then |
| 03:55.47 | karl_w_w | Shirik did you play dota 1? |
| 03:56.16 | nevcairiel | LW doesnt have any new spells in yet |
| 03:56.16 | Amarande | I'm not sure how well that will pan out though ... apart from dedicated fotm min/maxers, most people tend to pick a spec they like and not change |
| 03:56.42 | nevcairiel | neither does tailoring |
| 03:56.54 | Amarande | nevcairiel: yeah, if there aren't going to be WoD leg enchants, LW is in serious trouble |
| 03:57.25 | Amarande | especially given how much more difficult it has always been to level in the first place than most other crafting professions (except maybe, *maybe* BS) |
| 03:57.38 | nevcairiel | there is only one alchemy item in |
| 03:57.47 | nevcairiel | a potion that swaps your gender for a short time :p |
| 03:57.53 | nevcairiel | wonder if thats a joke |
| 03:58.03 | Amarande | also, are older enchants being yanked, or is this paradigm shift only for WoD enchants going forward? |
| 03:58.27 | Amarande | heh. possibly a joke item that is real |
| 03:58.38 | Amarande | didn't gnomish engi once get goggles that let you see through clothes, or some sort of thing like that? |
| 03:58.45 | nevcairiel | probably not going to remove them, but what they did in earlier expansions was to start making them less effective over the previous level cap |
| 03:58.52 | nevcairiel | so with 91 it would start losing potency |
| 03:58.58 | nevcairiel | and with 100 it would be close to 0 |
| 03:59.11 | Amarande | also the stat squish alone will probably severely reduce the efficiency of lower level enchants, too, I'd imagine |
| 03:59.19 | nevcairiel | because soem weapon enchants from the previous xpac were too strong in some cases |
| 03:59.29 | Amarande | because they'd be giving statsquished bonuses instead of big numbers like WoD is supposed to have |
| 04:00.11 | nevcairiel | oh they made it simpler |
| 04:00.19 | Amarande | yeah, that's always been an issue with the quirkier weapon enchants |
| 04:00.23 | nevcairiel | all the old enchants say "cannot be applied to items level 600 or greater" |
| 04:00.54 | Amarande | *600 or* greater? |
| 04:00.59 | Amarande | ohhhhhhh, crap. pain pain pain. possibly. |
| 04:01.03 | nevcairiel | and wod items are definitely going to be up there |
| 04:01.08 | Amarande | there new vellums yet? |
| 04:01.30 | Amarande | it just occurred to me ... when you're grinding enchanting at low levels, one of the better ways to do it is to buy a few vellums at a time |
| 04:01.47 | Amarande | chant them up, then vendor them back (the enchanted scrolls actually vendor back for what the vellums cost to buy, so you lose nothing) |
| 04:01.57 | Amarande | but ... it just occurred to me |
| 04:02.00 | Amarande | vellums are ilvl 600 :( |
| 04:02.04 | Shirik | karl_w_w: for a very short period of time |
| 04:02.14 | Amarande | we're going to have to just overwrite enchants on actual gear now when doing low level chant grinding, then? |
| 04:02.21 | Amarande | or will there be a lower level vellum for that? |
| 04:02.25 | nevcairiel | i suppose it says above 600 |
| 04:02.31 | nevcairiel | why would a vellum even be 600 |
| 04:02.52 | Amarande | nevcairiel: presumably because currently that means all enchants can be applied to it without worry about ilvl requirements |
| 04:02.58 | Amarande | back when chants HAD ilvl requirements, before they moved to scaling |
| 04:03.27 | nevcairiel | yeah it says above 600 |
| 04:03.35 | nevcairiel | and they might just change vellums if its a problem :p |
| 04:03.46 | Amarande | since back then the target item had to meet item level requirements, the vellum was given a high item level to accommodate that |
| 04:04.21 | Amarande | but now pretty sure nothing has such a requirement since it's all sliding scale now |
| 04:04.44 | nevcairiel | the point is, they easily did away with the old enchants |
| 04:04.46 | airtonix | Amarande: weak |
| 04:04.48 | Amarande | with much rejoicing, as now you no longer have issues like the ilvl/clvl quirk |
| 04:04.51 | nevcairiel | no worrying about using them |
| 04:05.04 | Amarande | or issues with enchanting heirlooms |
| 04:05.23 | Amarande | or how people hated engineer rogues in battlegrounds because you could get an ilvl 45 item at 20 :) |
| 04:05.59 | Amarande | (which let you get the BC agi cloak enchant that early) |
| 04:06.04 | nevcairiel | you could enchant 1h looms with +15 agi, that made dual weild classes insanely strong for the first 30 levels or so |
| 04:06.25 | Amarande | yeah, it was also a nice moneymaker for enchanting I'm sure, too |
| 04:06.35 | Amarande | due to the relative obscurity of the recipe (not many people grind timbermaw hold rep) |
| 04:06.57 | nevcairiel | i still have two of those weapons in the bank, they were on a hunter at some point, but they cant even equip those anymore :P |
| 04:07.17 | Amarande | the ilvl/clvl quirk on the other hand was just annoying |
| 04:07.24 | nevcairiel | and of course the enchant scales these days |
| 04:07.27 | Amarande | BC enchants said that an item level of 35 was required |
| 04:07.40 | Amarande | *but*, for some reason known only to the engineering gnomes at Blizzard |
| 04:07.54 | Amarande | gear for level 30-34, even though its item level is actually 35-39, was counted as too low |
| 04:08.24 | Amarande | (since ilvl for pre-raid classic was always five higher than the required level) |
| 04:09.20 | Amarande | and of course it gave a huge advantage to older twinks, because they could do things like get ilvl 35 quest gear early and enchant it for their 29 thanks to lack of character level requirement on quest rewards |
| 04:09.45 | Amarande | while once cata came out, you basically couldn't do that at all anymore due to new rules about quests (when's the last time you've seen an orange quest pre outland? :) |
| 04:10.53 | Amarande | well, yeah, ghostlands and bloodmyst ... but pretty sure apart from BC areas, 1-60 you're basically not allowed to get a quest anymore unless it is no "harder" than yellow |
| 04:11.19 | Amarande | so no more poking into the 30-40 areas for quests to get twinker items for 29 |
| 04:12.15 | Amarande | I miss the days of having a whole passel of orange quests in my log while leveling :) |
| 04:15.11 | Jamash | I'M BACK, BABY |
| 04:15.22 | Jamash | I just bought warlords and resubscribed |
| 04:16.04 | Amarande | nevcairiel: do signs point to them wanting to try to actually phase out professions for the most part, or is that still something not to worry of yet? |
| 04:17.05 | Amarande | these days, I can't imagine playing an MMO that eventually lacked some form of meaningful item crafting, heh |
| 04:17.44 | Amarande | but it sounds almost as if the profession system altogether may eventually become a victim of simplification and accessibility :( |
| 04:18.25 | *** join/#wowuidev ShadniX (dagger@p5481C0E9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 04:19.17 | Amarande | But then again given that Blizzard seems to have a focus on not having the professions give too much of a self benefit, combined with the approach they seem to have had with D3 lately which suggests that they're getting less and less fond of player to player trading ... okay, that's probably too alarmist, but it does seem a little fearful |
| 04:20.11 | airtonix | Jamash: sucker. |
| 04:20.25 | Jamash | airtonix: hell yeah |
| 04:20.46 | Amarande | though when it comes to trading, what I've never quite gotten is why blizzard has become so focused on squishing the goldfarmers *now* |
| 04:20.48 | airtonix | Jamash: can i interest you in a teenth of a sub? |
| 04:21.04 | Jamash | Amarande: Blizzard can't decide how to treat professions because players can't decide what they want out of professions |
| 04:21.16 | Jamash | If a profession doesn't provide a big self-buff it's useless, if it does it's mandatory |
| 04:21.20 | Amarande | they've been a problem for years. hell, every time I see a Susan Express ad in /2, I'm thinking like "wow, Susan Express is still around? They were advertising when I first started playing WoW way back in '07" |
| 04:21.31 | airtonix | Jamash: these are the new simchips that plug straight into your intel CranialSocket |
| 04:21.33 | Amarande | but the impression I get is that Blizzard has suddenly decided they pose a greater threat than they used to |
| 04:21.51 | Amarande | that, I can't really tell why |
| 04:22.28 | airtonix | i wish the new ShadowRun rpg was more openworld and sandboxy than it is |
| 04:22.32 | Jamash | airtonix: I only have an AMD socket |
| 04:22.51 | Amarande | although, then again, I'm not sure if gold farming has become more of a thing lately or not |
| 04:22.57 | airtonix | i would totally setup a "Blackmarket SimChip Developer Story" |
| 04:23.24 | airtonix | "Jessy, let's get stamping those chips!" |
| 04:23.38 | Amarande | I know in FFXIV (where the number of bans for gold selling related offences is announced weekly in Square's news roll) apparently they have to ban over a thousand people a WEEK for advertising or partaking of illicit gold selling |
| 04:24.04 | Amarande | so yeah, maybe it has become more of an issue, though I'm not sure why it would be (unless the economy has gone *that* soft that gamers are turning to goldselling to supplement their habits) |
| 04:24.11 | airtonix | gorramit! hurry up cyberpunk 2077 |
| 04:24.37 | airtonix | it's a Red project, so it's coming to linux ! |
| 04:24.51 | airtonix | chestbump |
| 04:25.32 | airtonix | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P99qJGrPNLs |
| 04:26.28 | Amarande | I'm still considering FFXIV at some later stage, especially now that I am going back to Windows |
| 04:27.42 | airtonix | nah you're not |
| 04:29.49 | Amarande | airtonix: going back to Windows? once I rebuild my PC tomorrow, yeah |
| 04:31.03 | Amarande | until either more games are 64-bit (never gonna happen for older classics though *sigh*) or wine works reliably enough with multi-arch for 32-bit stuff to be more viable (which I don't seem to have the knack of, or else it's Not There Yet ...), Linux will not grace my primary PC again |
| 04:31.24 | Amarande | well, at least not for main usage, I'll be keeping this ubuntu live dvd around for maintenance and recovery work |
| 04:31.55 | Amarande | or going to FFXIV? I've got a few good friends who play it |
| 04:32.09 | Amarande | mostly have not bought it because money's been tight the last few months and I didn't want to have to make that initial game purchase |
| 04:32.26 | Amarande | whereas with wow I can just pay the 15 a month till fall when wod hits and then decide whether I want to pay for that :) |
| 04:32.37 | airtonix | i have no problems running 32bit wine games on my 64bit linux machines |
| 04:32.47 | Amarande | FFXIV's at least 30 bucks though, 42 if you want the authenticator |
| 04:33.12 | Amarande | (and yes I want the authenticator ... account hacking has to be a huge thing there, especially if gold selling is so rife that over a thousand people a week get banned for it :p) |
| 04:33.27 | airtonix | Amarande: biggest problem people have with wine is not using prefixes |
| 04:33.44 | airtonix | Amarande: which is actually really easy to do properly. |
| 04:34.05 | Amarande | indeed, I'm still not entirely convinced linux didn't kill my onboard sound but I'm nowhere close to certain it did, either |
| 04:34.10 | Amarande | especially as this is a common glitch on Maximus boards |
| 04:34.22 | Amarande | in fact, it can ironically apparently ONLY be readily alleviated ON Linux, go figure |
| 04:34.43 | airtonix | also regardless of what you do, stay away from realtek |
| 04:34.52 | Amarande | airtonix: heh, most onboard sound is realtek |
| 04:34.57 | airtonix | not mine |
| 04:35.02 | Amarande | certain realteks, yes, though ... especially alc1150, which this board sports |
| 04:35.22 | Amarande | alc892 which my ASRock board coming tomorrow has is apparently a lot less finicky |
| 04:35.44 | airtonix | my chipset is all intel or nvidia |
| 04:35.54 | airtonix | or atheros |
| 04:36.05 | Amarande | airtonix: pretty sure intel PCH sound uses realtek on the backend almost always |
| 04:36.22 | Amarande | like this is Z87 intel HDA but it uses a realtek alc1150 codec processor |
| 04:36.22 | airtonix | at last i don't have to use shitty realtek drivers :) |
| 04:37.14 | Amarande | With alc1150 and Maximus, the problem is apparently that the chip very easily gets stuck in a state where it thinks the green speaker out is an in |
| 04:37.29 | Amarande | which of course causes you to get no sound because it won't send out data over a port that the DDR says is an input |
| 04:37.39 | Amarande | yay DDR inversion ... this is like commodore 64 stuff LOL |
| 04:38.11 | airtonix | you know something Amarande |
| 04:38.18 | Amarande | and the only way I'm aware of to override this error (sound didn't work on windows either when I tried it) is to issue a low level voodoo command with hda-verb on linux to forcibly reverse the direction on that port |
| 04:38.24 | airtonix | never mind Amarande |
| 04:38.25 | Amarande | but that fix goes away on reboot, so no way of permanently fixing it |
| 04:38.33 | airtonix | looks like your're busy |
| 04:38.43 | Amarande | airtonix: know what? |
| 04:38.55 | airtonix | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:39.10 | Amarande | (DDR = "data direction register", btw. not something you really see on a frequent basis anymore, but they were big with things like user port programming on commodore) |
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| 04:41.47 | Shirik | um |
| 04:41.53 | Shirik | you most certainly do |
| 04:42.22 | Shirik | almost exclusively in the world of embedded systems |
| 04:42.26 | Shirik | but it's certainly still very prevalent |
| 04:42.29 | Amarande | ah |
| 04:42.41 | Amarande | well, on a typical computer anyway, you don't see it coming up all that often |
| 04:42.59 | Amarande | I'm still not sure what possessed them to program the audio chip so that it could even reverse the data direction like that, either |
| 04:43.06 | Amarande | why would you want the green speaker out to be an in anyway, LOL |
| 04:43.44 | Shirik | depending on the hardware you might be able to turn it into a line in |
| 04:44.00 | Shirik | fundamentally the concepts are the same |
| 04:44.13 | Amarande | or have it turn itself into a line in spontaneously |
| 04:44.21 | Amarande | which seems to be a common issue with this series of mobo, and nobody really knows why |
| 04:44.43 | Mr_Rabies | realistically the power's usually coming from the pc itself, and a speaker and microphone are basically the same concept, just specialized |
| 04:44.44 | Amarande | probably because maximus boards are demons from hell and this is the last time I buy one ... or any asus board for that matter, really |
| 04:45.10 | Amarande | this is the second post-sandy bridge asus board I've had go wonkers on me |
| 04:45.18 | Mr_Rabies | speakers are terrible microphones and microphones are terrible speakers, but if wired appropriately may function as either, depending on design |
| 04:45.19 | Amarande | fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me |
| 04:45.26 | Mr_Rabies | i've told you man |
| 04:45.31 | Mr_Rabies | i don't like asus :( |
| 04:45.36 | Mr_Rabies | they're good for performance |
| 04:45.38 | Mr_Rabies | for like |
| 04:45.38 | Amarande | I used to, I loved them during socket 939 |
| 04:45.39 | Mr_Rabies | 3 months |
| 04:45.46 | Mr_Rabies | then worlds and worlds of pain afterwards |
| 04:45.53 | Amarande | heh, this maximus is in fact about 3 months old |
| 04:45.59 | Mr_Rabies | where suddenly the ram you were using now won't even let the board post |
| 04:46.05 | Mr_Rabies | nor will any ram, ever, anymore |
| 04:46.06 | Amarande | wonder if this kind of sound glitch is warrantyable or if I should just go straight to craigslist |
| 04:46.18 | Mr_Rabies | it is |
| 04:46.31 | Amarande | mind you, I'll have to go to craigslist eventually anyway I suppose |
| 04:46.37 | Mr_Rabies | as long as you're saying it has problems, they'll swap it out for another or attempt repairs |
| 04:46.46 | Amarande | since if it's warrantyable, I'll be sending it back to ASUS, they will be sending me back another Gene, which I don't WANT at this point |
| 04:46.48 | Mr_Rabies | if they can't repair it, they'll swap it out for another |
| 04:46.52 | Amarande | and thus will also be going to craigslist, heh |
| 04:47.01 | Mr_Rabies | as long as the warranty is a normal one |
| 04:47.31 | Mr_Rabies | you could possibly also return it to retailer, depending on things |
| 04:47.36 | Mr_Rabies | and just get a refund |
| 04:47.42 | Amarande | think newegg only takes back for 30 days, been too long for that |
| 04:47.52 | Mr_Rabies | depends on the part, worth a look at least |
| 04:48.05 | Mr_Rabies | you're almost certainly right but hey |
| 04:48.15 | Amarande | new board will be an asrock |
| 04:48.34 | Amarande | considered gigabyte but I heard their Haswell offerings sometimes have problems with sound dying too |
| 04:48.58 | Mr_Rabies | asrock can definitely be hit or miss |
| 04:49.03 | Mr_Rabies | they're better in the like |
| 04:49.05 | Amarande | mind you the gigabyte I have works really nicely but that's an AMD 970 series board |
| 04:49.09 | Mr_Rabies | mini-itx market |
| 04:49.12 | Amarande | I'm hoping it's not as I've sometimes feared |
| 04:49.19 | Mr_Rabies | how expensive was it? |
| 04:49.23 | Amarande | namely that intel motherboards in general are just a pain in the ass compared to amd |
| 04:49.26 | Amarande | the asrock board? 75 bucks |
| 04:49.30 | Amarande | the asus board? 200 |
| 04:49.34 | Mr_Rabies | thats a good range for a decent asrock board |
| 04:49.36 | Mr_Rabies | it should be fine |
| 04:49.43 | Mr_Rabies | the problem is when you start cutting under 50 or so |
| 04:49.48 | Mr_Rabies | they start getting REALLY crappy |
| 04:49.53 | Amarande | yeah, the only brand I'd go down to 50ish for would be foxconn |
| 04:50.01 | Mr_Rabies | same |
| 04:50.09 | Mr_Rabies | they make boards for intel and gigabyte anyway |
| 04:50.18 | Amarande | not to mention practically all the LGA sockets |
| 04:50.24 | Mr_Rabies | and connectors, etc |
| 04:50.56 | Mr_Rabies | just about everything that isn't an actual IC in a ton of boards is made by foxconn |
| 04:51.36 | Amarande | but yeah, I'm beginning to wonder why it seems like AMD motherboards are so much more trouble free than Intel ones |
| 04:52.36 | Mr_Rabies | i don't believe they are really much different in terms of failure rate but recently intel has changed a lot of architecture that's forcing boardmakers to not use the same stuff they've been using forever |
| 04:53.03 | Amarande | heh. probably something to do with the lower performance tier of AMD in general, I'm guessing |
| 04:53.24 | Mr_Rabies | like, the iseries processors handle memory in a way different way than just about anything prior |
| 04:53.47 | Amarande | then the whole shift to uefi and such |
| 04:53.55 | Amarande | although there are amd 970 boards with secure boot |
| 04:53.58 | Mr_Rabies | at first boardmakers weren't even 100% sure if they could use different clock speeds on ram for each processor |
| 04:54.15 | Mr_Rabies | i'm still on an evga x58 board myself |
| 04:54.17 | Amarande | oh, yeah, that's another thing, intel is a lot more tight-leashed with boardmakers |
| 04:54.34 | Mr_Rabies | UEFI isn't all THAT different in terms of how it talks to the board |
| 04:54.47 | Amarande | like some made B85 and H87 boards that let you bump your non-K processor up to full turbo on all cores at all times |
| 04:55.12 | Amarande | and Intel literally told them "nix that or else, that's not a feature of B85 and H87, you are not authorised to do this on non-Z boards" |
| 04:55.12 | Mr_Rabies | the boards just need more storage space internally to hold the larger "operating system" of UEFI versus bios, and yeah it hooks into the trusted computing stuff |
| 04:55.46 | Amarande | (not sure if it was ever tried on Q87 but I'm sure they'd have been told to get it out of there there too) |
| 04:55.59 | Amarande | have heard there are so-called "beta" BIOS for some ASRock boards that let you still activate the feature |
| 04:56.02 | Mr_Rabies | as far as the board itself is concerned other than the trusted computing stuff, it's still getting the same low-level instructions sent across it as always for the most part |
| 04:56.22 | Amarande | (and apparently that the precise reason the BIOS's are marked beta is to avoid Intel's wrath, they can claim it's a bug if called out on it I suppose LOL) |
| 04:56.30 | Mr_Rabies | but more complex software = more likely to have major bugs, especially when it's only recently more complex and has been roughly the same for 30+ years prior |
| 04:57.02 | Amarande | AMD, on the other hand, has never pulled anything that heavy handed with board makers |
| 04:57.36 | Amarande | pretty sure if they let you full turbo a non-K APU on an A88 board they wouldn't bat an eye, say |
| 04:57.52 | Amarande | (knowing AMD they probably even expect you to do this) |
| 04:58.29 | Amarande | so yeah, it does seem like intel board makers can be forced to make last minute changes to stuff at intel's dictate |
| 04:58.55 | Amarande | hell I'm surprised the maximus vi gene supports vt-d, from what I have heard that's "supposed" to be a Q87 feature, not Z87 |
| 04:59.10 | Amarande | and like I said Intel seems to be very big lately on enforcing the chipset featuresets as law |
| 04:59.26 | Amarande | try to extend the featureset to something that's "meant for" another chipset and Intel makes you change the BIOS to not do so |
| 04:59.56 | Amarande | they must be losing sales on Z chipsets or something |
| 05:00.23 | Amarande | (wouldn't be surprised, given how craptastic even the K Haswells apparently can be at OC) |
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| 05:19.14 | pompy1 | holy fuck |
| 05:22.52 | Amarande | ? |
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| 06:17.26 | Neffi_ | Semlar: https://i.imgur.com/jhYHNNu.png |
| 06:22.09 | airtonix | actually wouldn't mind getting hold of the white coat adrian wears in watchdogs |
| 06:23.55 | Kalroth | tipping intensifies |
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| 07:44.53 | relaxok | damn. |
| 07:45.06 | relaxok | FauxScrollFrame_GetOffset(InterfaceOPtionsFrameAddOnsList) is returning nil |
| 07:45.11 | relaxok | but its just frame.offset |
| 07:47.45 | relaxok | InterfaceOptionsControlsPanel's OnLoad => InterfaceOptionsPanel_OnLoad(self) -> InterfaceOptions_AddCategory(self) -> InterfaceOptions_AddCategory(frame, addOn, position) -> InterfaceAddOnsList_Update() -> local offset = FauxScrollFrame_GetOffset... |
| 07:47.58 | relaxok | where in that chain would the frame.offset be set? |
| 07:48.05 | relaxok | annoyingly complicated to follow |
| 07:48.15 | relaxok | i need some sort of lua IDE that i can go to a function and back to the previous one etc |
| 07:48.31 | relaxok | i have to just keep searching the whole folder |
| 07:50.42 | relaxok | hmm im forcing issecure to be false |
| 07:51.03 | relaxok | but nope that had nothing to do with it |
| 07:52.45 | relaxok | i see FauxScrollFrame_SetOffset being used some places, but not in that chain.. there's self.offset being set in ScrollFrame_OnLoad which isn't it |
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| 08:30.34 | relaxok | blargh |
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| 09:09.13 | bluspacecow | any croatians here ? |
| 09:22.11 | Semlar | you slander my good name neffi |
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| 09:30.57 | airtonix | stuff |
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| 09:47.28 | bluspacecow | whats that windows command you use to check the state of your windows install ? starts with MS I think :| |
| 09:48.49 | Fisker | what bluspacecow |
| 09:48.49 | Fisker | wat |
| 09:49.05 | bluspacecow | wat |
| 09:49.11 | bluspacecow | watties beans |
| 09:49.13 | Fisker | make sense |
| 09:49.16 | bluspacecow | *patoot* |
| 09:53.45 | Mr_Rabies | i don't think you're referring to msconfig |
| 09:53.53 | Mr_Rabies | what do you mean, state of your windows install? |
| 09:54.01 | Fisker | that's my question |
| 09:57.35 | Mr_Rabies | this is my question, personally http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114723/3316713-6679122170-Quest.png |
| 09:59.14 | bluspacecow | upgrading my Vm ware to Vm ware fusion 6. I um …. haven’t updated my windows 7 install since august 2013 and windows update is being all grrrr argghhhh about it |
| 10:00.02 | Mr_Rabies | do you have service pack 1? |
| 10:00.30 | Mr_Rabies | windows key+pause will tell you that, if you're not sure |
| 10:00.56 | Mr_Rabies | should be under copyright blah microsoft blah blah |
| 10:01.39 | relaxok | gah.. wtf. ChatFrame.lua is included in ChatFrame.xml, and it sets DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME to ChatFrame1 which isn't defined until FloatingChatFrame.xml which is after ChatFrame.xml in the toc |
| 10:01.56 | bluspacecow | Windows 7 Service Pack 1 I has! |
| 10:02.01 | relaxok | how is that possible? |
| 10:02.12 | bluspacecow | gremlins |
| 10:02.15 | bluspacecow | on booze |
| 10:02.18 | relaxok | do none of the lua scripts get parsed until after everything is loaded? |
| 10:02.39 | relaxok | i assumed it was as the xml was completed |
| 10:03.07 | Mr_Rabies | as someone who doesn't know wow addons at all, i do know the chat interface is akin to an enigma machine, stored inside an ice cube, at the bottom of the mariana trench |
| 10:03.33 | Mr_Rabies | though i hear it was cleaned up a lot when they cleaned up the combat log stuff in cata or so? |
| 10:03.36 | bluspacecow | thats deep man |
| 10:03.39 | bluspacecow | and ice cold |
| 10:04.09 | Mr_Rabies | http://i.imgur.com/8dOWJrR.gif |
| 10:04.12 | Mr_Rabies | my response |
| 10:04.21 | Mr_Rabies | in gif form |
| 10:05.27 | relaxok | i need the wizard brain of nevcairiel |
| 10:05.56 | bluspacecow | but i is nomming on it ! |
| 10:09.03 | Semlar | except ChatFrame1's OnLoad script sets DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME = ChatFrame1 |
| 10:11.09 | Semlar | so it doesn't matter that it doesn't exist when it's set in ChatFrame.lua |
| 10:12.53 | Fisker | log files bluspacecow |
| 10:16.09 | relaxok | Semlar: looking |
| 10:16.26 | Semlar | it's in FloatingChatFrame.xml |
| 10:19.34 | bluspacecow | oh oh worky tiems i try tomoroows ! |
| 10:20.32 | relaxok | Semlar: i am so not used to looking through these chains of things to find where stuff is altered.. its lunacy |
| 10:21.18 | Semlar | what are you after |
| 10:21.30 | relaxok | but yes, i think the deal is that i'm not running OnLoads for ScrollingMessageFrames |
| 10:21.36 | relaxok | so that should fix it |
| 10:23.00 | relaxok | (trying now) |
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| 10:23.40 | Semlar | you have a typo in that code you posted earlier, if that's not from copying it into the chat |
| 10:24.00 | Semlar | "FauxScrollFrame_GetOffset(InterfaceOPtionsFrameAddOnsList)" |
| 10:24.25 | relaxok | Semlar: just a typo on irc.. but that was the next thing i was going to ask you about |
| 10:24.37 | relaxok | Semlar: do you know where frame.offset is ever set there? |
| 10:25.39 | Semlar | i have no idea what you're trying to do |
| 10:26.19 | relaxok | Semlar: at the moment, parsing all xml/lua and running all OnLoads. |
| 10:26.23 | Semlar | FauxScrollFrame_GetOffset(InterfaceOptionsFrameAddOnsList) returns 0 when i run it in-game |
| 10:26.50 | relaxok | yeah, i have to implement everything =| |
| 10:27.10 | relaxok | offset is nil in my stuff |
| 10:27.22 | Semlar | i don't know what your stuff is |
| 10:27.56 | relaxok | a C++ UI library |
| 10:29.44 | relaxok | you were correct, btw, thanks.. ChatFrame1's OnLoad set it |
| 10:30.22 | relaxok | now something in that OnLoad is passing a nil frame to FCF_SetWindowName |
| 10:30.38 | relaxok | i really need a Lua IDE to be able to maneuver all these files properly |
| 10:30.42 | relaxok | i just search for everything in notepad++ now |
| 10:30.52 | Alram | notepad++ master race |
| 10:31.09 | Wimpsy | notepad++ for life |
| 10:31.10 | Alram | are there proper LUA IDEs? |
| 10:31.21 | Workfoz | Lua is not an acronym |
| 10:31.24 | Alram | (Lua*) that'd be pretty cool |
| 10:31.28 | Workfoz | :P |
| 10:31.30 | Alram | (die Workfoz) |
| 10:31.33 | Workfoz | nevar |
| 10:31.42 | Workfoz | also, IntelliJ IDEA with sylvanaar's excellent Lua plugin |
| 10:32.06 | Workfoz | (and I heard of Luaclipse (you can guess what that is)) |
| 10:32.08 | airtonix | Expolisions > Focus > Man > Sunglasses > Camera Flare. |
| 10:32.10 | relaxok | i just want to be able to right click -> go to definition |
| 10:32.16 | Alram | oh apparently this is a thing http://wowpedia.org/Lua_editors |
| 10:32.16 | relaxok | and go back to last spot |
| 10:32.37 | Workfoz | I jumped in because I saw my friend Alram, I have no idea what the topic even is, never mind me |
| 10:32.39 | Workfoz | :D |
| 10:32.40 | relaxok | lo AAlram |
| 10:32.42 | relaxok | -A |
| 10:33.33 | relaxok | Workfoz: i downloaded koneki which is some eclipse lua thing but it required a java JRE |
| 10:33.50 | Workfoz | so? |
| 10:34.05 | Workfoz | Eclipse requiring a JRE is not surprising in the least, is it |
| 10:34.05 | Workfoz | :D |
| 10:34.25 | Alram | shouldnt you be working Workfoz |
| 10:34.37 | Workfoz | I am |
| 10:34.39 | Workfoz | verily |
| 10:34.45 | Workfoz | waiting for queries to return |
| 10:35.27 | airtonix | html doesn't require queries |
| 10:36.08 | relaxok | Workfoz i know, but i dont want it =p |
| 10:36.21 | Alram | addon studio 2010 looks like something thats still being updated |
| 10:37.07 | Workfoz | airtonix: ok, we'll switch our DWH to HTML as soon as possible. Which version do you recommend? ^^ HTML 4.01? XHTML 1.1? |
| 10:37.17 | Workfoz | relaxok: that's... rather irrational |
| 10:37.25 | airtonix | man don't be such a lightweight |
| 10:37.44 | Workfoz | I'm not drinking at work |
| 10:37.45 | airtonix | real men use qbasic |
| 10:38.12 | relaxok | my lua debugging method here is just putting error( "dongs" ) everywhere |
| 10:38.24 | airtonix | stop raising the dongas |
| 10:39.01 | Alram | i do that with bazinga if something works and bazonga if it doesnt |
| 10:39.05 | Alram | i dont like big bang theory anymore though :( |
| 10:39.48 | Workfoz | return to oldschool |
| 10:39.50 | Workfoz | use foo bar baz |
| 10:40.17 | Alram | ill leave everything old school up to you Workfoz <3 |
| 10:40.32 | Workfoz | but |
| 10:40.37 | Workfoz | that makes me feel old :( |
| 10:40.43 | Alram | that is the point yes |
| 10:45.16 | relaxok | <Workfoz> waiting for queries to return |
| 10:45.17 | relaxok | oops |
| 10:45.28 | Workfoz | :| |
| 10:45.34 | Workfoz | 1170 seconds and waiting! |
| 10:45.55 | airtonix | phase one complete |
| 10:46.11 | relaxok | http://pastie.org/private/5cx5kwlrvmkuydvuyyp09g |
| 10:46.25 | relaxok | not going too badly! |
| 10:46.44 | relaxok | (im not loading past Lootframe.xml in the toc yet) |
| 10:46.59 | Alram | load all the luas |
| 10:47.21 | relaxok | about half the errors are that offset thing i mentioned |
| 10:47.45 | relaxok | which still disturbs me |
| 10:47.53 | relaxok | i need a wowui jedi |
| 10:48.04 | airtonix | oh ok |
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| 11:00.37 | relaxok | Alram: soon |
| 11:00.51 | relaxok | the only real reason im stopping at this point is that it takes forever in debug |
| 11:00.56 | relaxok | so i dont want to do 100% of everything |
| 11:01.57 | Alram | have you ran into silly blizzard specific hackfixes yet |
| 11:07.35 | relaxok | Alram: you mean stuff blizzard has done or that i have to do to support it? |
| 11:07.46 | relaxok | the latter, tons... |
| 11:08.07 | relaxok | i dont have enough lua experience to know if what they're doing is hacky or not.. its certainly very complicated |
| 11:08.15 | relaxok | i saw one thing today that was funny |
| 11:08.42 | relaxok | if (IsBlizzCon() ) then self:Disable() |
| 11:09.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Motig (~Motig@unaffiliated/motig) |
| 11:10.47 | Alram | heh |
| 11:10.54 | Alram | yeah they do that in a few places |
| 11:11.00 | Alram | you cant access settings when at blizzcon |
| 11:11.06 | Alram | you only have blizzcon loading screens |
| 11:11.09 | Alram | cant quit etc |
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| 11:33.38 | relaxok | what's getn? |
| 11:34.13 | relaxok | ah table.getn |
| 12:23.28 | Workfoz | BlizzCon build is fun |
| 12:23.43 | Workfoz | also, I want to know more of their current architectural details |
| 12:24.07 | Workfoz | I just know bits and pieces filtered through someone with not much technical knowledge :-[ |
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| 12:47.28 | relaxok | okay i think the answer to some of my remaining problems is that i hadn't implemented securecall |
| 12:49.07 | relaxok | unfortunately every fix that opens up calling more lua creates a nother chunk of errors |
| 12:50.04 | nevcairiel | securecall is like a no-op in your system tho, i bet :p |
| 12:51.04 | relaxok | it was a placeholder nop yeah |
| 12:51.13 | relaxok | but i think not calling it is causing problems |
| 12:51.24 | relaxok | i mean not implementing it |
| 12:51.30 | relaxok | because its basically just another function call |
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| 12:51.51 | nevcairiel | well since i doubt you implemented the taint system, all it does is forward the call inside of it |
| 12:53.04 | relaxok | right, that's what i wasn't doing |
| 12:53.09 | relaxok | and yeah no taint whatever that is |
| 12:53.10 | relaxok | =) |
| 12:59.29 | relaxok | slow and steady |
| 13:00.13 | relaxok | awesome |
| 13:00.16 | relaxok | i think this is helping |
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| 13:03.07 | relaxok | nevcairiel: you are the only one who can help me figure out this offset error |
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| 13:04.52 | nevcairiel | i know nothing! |
| 13:06.27 | dusf123 | when i copy all of my addons from windows to ubuntu all addons seem to work fine except SBF seems to lose the options that were set by realui |
| 13:06.40 | dusf123 | any ideas why this is happening and how to stop it? |
| 13:06.44 | dusf123 | tried copying multiple times |
| 13:20.51 | Semlar | dusf123: did you copy the WTF folder |
| 13:28.49 | karl_w_w | language Semlar |
| 13:29.49 | Semlar | :( |
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| 13:42.51 | relaxok | nevcairiel: are you still there? |
| 13:43.08 | nevcairiel | for a bit |
| 14:01.23 | relaxok | nevcairiel: http://pastie.org/private/qblrysicvk8mbb1zrefrw |
| 14:01.43 | relaxok | nevcairiel: any insight into those errors that appear down a bit would be greatly appreciated |
| 14:02.11 | relaxok | nevcairiel: lua line numbers might be slightly off, but the gist is that offset is nil.. from FauxScrollFrame_GetOffset (which returns frame.offset) |
| 14:02.27 | relaxok | nevcairiel: so im trying to figure out where those frames would set offset to anything |
| 14:02.40 | relaxok | nevcairiel: the first one being InterfaceOptionsControlsPanel |
| 14:10.34 | mitch0 | dusf123: could be some case-sensitivity issue with the savedvariables filename |
| 14:11.22 | nevcairiel | relaxok: you should really try to print more of the callstack instead of only one line |
| 14:11.46 | nevcairiel | (in the error messages) |
| 14:12.34 | relaxok | yeah, totally |
| 14:13.41 | relaxok | im just dumping the stack |
| 14:13.45 | relaxok | is there a way i can do more? |
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| 14:22.50 | nevcairiel | anyhow, i think i found where the offset is set |
| 14:23.09 | nevcairiel | the frame in question has an OnLoad which calls ScrollFrame_OnLoad, which sets it |
| 14:23.37 | nevcairiel | my guess is you call the onloads in the wrong order |
| 14:23.58 | nevcairiel | dont ask me what the right order is |
| 14:24.12 | nevcairiel | from child to parent? |
| 14:24.14 | nevcairiel | has no idea |
| 14:24.42 | nevcairiel | might not even be the load order |
| 14:24.46 | nevcairiel | but anyway, thats where its set |
| 14:25.26 | nevcairiel | InterfaceOptionsFrameCategoriesList has an OnLoad which calls ScrollFrame_OnLoad |
| 14:25.37 | nevcairiel | for some reason, that didnt get called, apparently |
| 14:31.09 | relaxok | awesome, looking |
| 14:32.47 | dusf123 | mitch0: i reinstalled the addon from the web and it worked, strange problem but i'm happy it is fixed |
| 14:33.01 | dusf123 | what is the name of the addon that shows fishing and ming et |
| 14:33.12 | dusf123 | mining etc levels in zones on the world map |
| 14:34.20 | relaxok | nevcairiel: where is InterfaceOptionsFrameCategoriesList even created? |
| 14:35.31 | nevcairiel | the name is created through inheritance, the main frame is InterfaceOptionsFrame, which has a child called $parentCategories, which inherits from OptionsFrameListTemplate, which has a child called $parentList |
| 14:37.27 | relaxok | ahhhh yes |
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| 14:39.57 | relaxok | i have a pretty good idea now of where to debug, thanks |
| 14:40.18 | Ackis | this looks neat: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=109&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011011&p_id=10601&seq=1&format=2 |
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| 15:00.00 | karl_w_w | related categories: banana plugs |
| 15:00.02 | karl_w_w | nom nom |
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| 15:00.54 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 15:01.30 | Fisker | Lopeppeppy |
| 15:01.45 | Lopeppeppy | Oh god Fisker, someone is wrong on the internet, make them stop! |
| 15:03.07 | Fisker | I can't :( |
| 15:08.46 | relaxok | nevcairiel: found the problem.. when inside <Frames> tags, i was only handling a limited number of tags like frame/button/etc and not scrollframe and wasnt asserint on new ones.. second bug after that since i just tried having virtual controls run their OnLoad.. but that is all out of whack. i think you have to run OnLoad for the virtual base later when you run the real onload (but run it first) |
| 15:08.57 | relaxok | wasn't asserting* |
| 15:09.13 | relaxok | not sure how im gonna do that atm |
| 15:09.56 | Fisker | Do I disappoint you Lopeppeppy? |
| 15:11.37 | Lopeppeppy | sniffs mournfully. |
| 15:13.40 | Fisker | :( |
| 15:18.35 | karl_w_w | http://i.imgur.com/H9lxaYu.jpg true Fisker? |
| 15:41.13 | Lopeppeppy | Anyone who I've connected with on Facebook can now see photos of the garden I've prattled on about this spring. :) |
| 15:48.12 | Shirik | I thought religion said that dinosaurs didn't exist? |
| 15:54.59 | relaxok | the order and process of OnLoad stuff is crazy to me |
| 15:55.27 | Fisker | Aww Lopeppeppy |
| 15:55.55 | relaxok | you've got something like $parentList in OptionsFrameListTemplate, which has an OnLoad script to run ScrollFrame_OnLoad.. which tries to work with things that it hasn't created |
| 15:56.07 | relaxok | so you're definitely not supposed to run OnLoad on virtual frames/controls? |
| 15:56.14 | relaxok | but you have to eventually if something inherits it |
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| 15:57.19 | nevcairiel | its of course just called once its actually instanciated |
| 15:57.30 | nevcairiel | virtuals are just templates, they are not actual frames and dont get any scripts executed |
| 15:58.03 | relaxok | i realize |
| 15:59.10 | relaxok | i'm trying to figure out how to do that though. |
| 15:59.25 | relaxok | i mean i have been doing it, but not in the best possible way |
| 15:59.28 | relaxok | as your find showed me |
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| 16:00.26 | relaxok | i wonder if things with virtual tags are not even parsed at that time? |
| 16:00.57 | relaxok | does it possibly just put the root tag in a map/table somewhere via its aname and then reads it in for the first time when something first inherits it? |
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| 16:01.04 | relaxok | name* |
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| 16:03.26 | relaxok | hm i think that's where i started getting off.. i'm actually parsing the virtual ones as if they're creating frames, which makes me need special handling for them |
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| 16:03.48 | relaxok | even though i'm re-building the tag when something inherits it |
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| 16:08.25 | pompy | does KSP ever go more than 40% off? thinkin of grabbing it right now. |
| 16:10.24 | Fisker | It can go lower if it's not a flash/community/daily sale |
| 16:10.32 | Fisker | You won't know until the last day though |
| 16:10.41 | Fisker | Oh |
| 16:10.43 | Fisker | It's community choice |
| 16:10.48 | Fisker | probably won't be cheaper then |
| 16:13.55 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 16:15.40 | pompy | http://www.bestbuy.com/site/promo/razer-mouse-offer-124249 |
| 16:15.58 | pompy | i dont wanna buy this $70 mousse to get a $50 steam wallet gc tho lol :o |
| 16:26.47 | kd3 | mousse? valve's expanded to haircare products? |
| 16:27.40 | Amarande | pompy: not to mention it's razer |
| 16:27.56 | Amarande | the only razer device I've seriously considered lately is the small sized blackwidow keyboard |
| 16:28.03 | Amarande | and that's only because the lack of a numpad can be useful in mmos |
| 16:28.47 | Amarande | (because it keeps your hands both closer to the main part of the keyboard, mainly) |
| 16:29.59 | alestane | For those who regularly handle Canadian currency, which denomination is a "loonie"? |
| 16:31.43 | alestane | Okay, the Internet says it's one dollar. |
| 16:32.29 | nevcairiel | weird countries and their custom currency names |
| 16:32.45 | nevcairiel | we europeans just call them by their face value! |
| 16:34.21 | Stanzilla | p3lim: you might wanna change the strata of the collapse button on habeebit, kinda difficult to find here :D https://cdn.mediacru.sh/uyDr3jtKs3SF.jpg |
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| 16:37.46 | alestane | It believe it has a loon stamped on it, nevcairiel, so the name is slang. |
| 16:38.28 | Amarande | yeah, dollar coins are actually a big thing in canada, apparently |
| 16:38.35 | Amarande | unlike here in the USA where people keep refusing to catch on to them :| |
| 16:39.10 | Amarande | I usually try to keep them circulating when people use them at work, but I actually get quite a lot of customers who when given a Presidential or Sacajawea coin hand it back to me and ask for a paper dollar instead :S |
| 16:39.11 | Ressy | Also have a $2 coin. We call it the toonie. |
| 16:39.49 | pompy | kd3: yes |
| 16:40.05 | Ressy | Amarande: Bank of Canada stopped circulating dollar bills, and destroyed them. Helped with the transition to coin |
| 16:40.21 | Amarande | Yeah, here the US gov keeps issuing dollar coins but doesn't seem to have the guts to get rid of the bills |
| 16:40.32 | alestane | Amarande, that happened to me a few times when I worked retail. "None of that funny money! Give me a real dollar." |
| 16:40.44 | Amarande | never mind that the bills can pose some actual issues in today's world |
| 16:40.53 | karl_w_w | I love message boards/commenting systems that require you to leave a blank line in order for it to show paragraphs. Why the fuck do they think I hit enter? Cos of the sound it makes? |
| 16:41.08 | Amarande | for instance, consider this fact: most dollar bills, by the time they get back to the US Treasury for recycling, have trace but measurable amounts of illegal substances on them |
| 16:41.27 | Amarande | consider also this fact: at the airport, a result of "random additional screening" can be having your fingers swabbed |
| 16:41.44 | Amarande | ... have you touched a dollar bill on your way to the airport? you probably have. do you know what's on that dollar bill? you probably don't ... |
| 16:42.46 | Gnarfoz | I haven't quite figured out why that is a thing, either |
| 16:42.52 | Amarande | karl_w_w: it probably has to do with low level coding issues, from my recollection HTML doesn't treat paragraphs as separate normally unless you specifically insert <P> or have at least a full line of whitespace |
| 16:43.07 | Gnarfoz | maybe so it's easier to format the marked up text? |
| 16:43.15 | Gnarfoz | s/format/edit/ |
| 16:45.57 | Amarande | alestane: yeah, americans seem to like carrying dollar bills for some reason |
| 16:46.15 | Amarande | I guess it might be useful if you're in social settings where you want to look rich, or if you have a LOT of dollar bills, but otherwise, meh |
| 16:46.44 | Amarande | since you can look rich by putting a couple 20's on each end of the stack, then hiding the singles in the middle and voila it looks like you've got a pile of 20's :) |
| 16:46.58 | Amarande | well, I suppose there is that airport scenario again |
| 16:47.16 | Amarande | personally I try to get rid of all my coins that I've accumulated on a trip before I go back to the airport ... if nothing else I leave them as part of my housekeeper's tip at the hotel |
| 16:47.44 | Amarande | last thing I'd like is to accidentally set off the metal detector due to forgotten change and receive the extra special tender care :) |
| 16:48.59 | Amarande | (although it seems like airport metal detectors are weaksauce, I've sometimes forgotten to take off jewelry or even my watch at the airport and nothing happens. probably why they're using the Rapiscans now, I'm sure they're more reliable despite the naysayers) |
| 16:49.36 | Amarande | then again, once I had a pair of shorts with a built-in belt and that set off the klaxons, heh |
| 16:53.42 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 16:54.51 | Amarande | but hey, welcome to america the weird |
| 16:55.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Unkle (~mconverse@50-0-113-123.dedicated.static.sonic.net) |
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| 17:01.41 | Stanzilla | http://www.collegehumor.com/post/6650094/facebook-news-feed-history-of-the-world-world-war-i-to-world-war-ii/ |
| 17:02.17 | Shirik | if you're only concerned with the history of the soviet union, better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWTFG3J1CP8 |
| 17:06.00 | *** join/#wowuidev ikcerog_ (~ikcerog@ql1fwhide.rockfin.com) |
| 17:06.36 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 17:09.18 | Stanzilla | video can't be viewed in germany :D |
| 17:11.56 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@c83-250-213-196.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 17:12.05 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 17:12.09 | Gnarfoz | because of Tetris? you've got to be shitting me |
| 17:12.54 | Fisker | Because of music |
| 17:19.29 | Neffi_ | <Semlar> you slander my good name neffi <- :D |
| 17:20.40 | Neffi_ | Semlar: you should live around here. Lots of fun is going to be had tonight |
| 17:21.25 | Neffi_ | Every tue is Beat the Clock down in Belmar. 50 cent beers, goes up 25 cents per hour. |
| 17:40.48 | Lopeppeppy | la la la la broken email la la la. |
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| 17:56.29 | Lopeppeppy | It's 82 degrees outside, and the heat is on in here. *fans self* |
| 17:57.26 | Neffi_ | why is the heat on? |
| 17:58.04 | Lopeppeppy | Because someone in the physical plant is a complete tool, I'm guessing. |
| 17:58.18 | Neffi_ | :( |
| 18:03.14 | TC-Work | And here I thought you liked a good tool Lopeppeppy. |
| 18:03.43 | Lopeppeppy | Only battery powered, TC, I don't do the heavy machinery. :) |
| 18:05.55 | TC-Work | I dunno Lopeppeppy, I hear good things about sybian's |
| 18:06.37 | Lopeppeppy | Lelo is a brand highly recommended by my Friends Who Talk About That Stuff. |
| 18:07.16 | Amarande | hah TC, for a moment I was like "what use does a mediocrely supported mobile phone OS have as a ... tool" heh ... then I read the word again :) |
| 18:07.44 | Amarande | sybian, not symbian ... LOL |
| 18:08.06 | Amarande | heh. that's gotta be fun in mobile phone circles when someone gets the name wrong, though |
| 18:08.40 | Amarande | "Why did you come back with porn, apprentice?!" "You said to get many books of esoteric nature!" |
| 18:23.18 | Fisker | I didn't recommend lelo Lopeppeppy |
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| 18:29.16 | TC-Work | You are not her friend, just her fish supplier. |
| 18:29.50 | Fisker | :( |
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| 18:46.11 | Neffi_ | now here's a man with his priorities straight http://i.imgur.com/gAYpIIT.jpg |
| 18:51.24 | Amarande | Neffi: heh good thing he didn't sign with the yankees |
| 18:51.54 | Amarande | Apparently beards are not allowed at all by the Steinbrenner dynasty, even Johnny Damon had to shave when he became a Yankee |
| 18:52.21 | *** join/#wowuidev mitch0 (~mitch@drvolomdental.hu) |
| 18:58.06 | Unkle | Neffi_: I'm amused, because I just grew a beard. |
| 18:58.51 | Neffi_ | Unkle: Feed the beard. Grow the beard. Respect the beard. Beard is love. Beard is life. |
| 18:59.09 | Torhal | I never understood why many men grow beards in the summer and trim their hair to almost nothing in the winter. |
| 18:59.15 | Unkle | Remember, a man without a beard is like a woman with one. |
| 18:59.22 | Torhal | o.O |
| 18:59.33 | Dashkal | Beardist |
| 18:59.53 | Unkle | Beards uber alles |
| 19:01.01 | Unkle | Torhal: Yeah, why grow a chin-warmer when it is hot out, then ditch it when it is cold. |
| 19:04.20 | Gnarfoz | here, have an ü |
| 19:07.01 | Unkle | Gnarfoz: danke |
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| 19:26.45 | relaxok | http://pastie.org/private/ztgcjv86j9uwbta9ljohqg |
| 19:26.48 | relaxok | damn that's a lot of buttons |
| 19:26.49 | relaxok | wtf |
| 19:28.49 | relaxok | if frame A inherits B, and the OnLoad script lines for both has the same function call in it, like OptionsList_OnLoad(self); do you really run it twice? |
| 19:29.36 | Neffi_ | If A inherits B, and defined its own OnLoad, only that gets run. If it doesnt define an OnLoad, then B's gets run (with A as self) (I'm like 95% sure of this, so maybe test it) |
| 19:30.25 | nevcairiel | yeah, the onloads overwrite each other, only A's OnLoad would be run |
| 19:30.30 | nevcairiel | same with any other frame scripts |
| 19:31.32 | Neffi_ | Inheriting a virtual frame works like fallthrough. Anything not defined at the topmost level (the real frame), defaults to what was defined at the next one down (the frame it directly inherited from), at least afaik |
| 19:31.39 | nevcairiel | (independent of the content of those scripts, of course) |
| 19:35.14 | relaxok | damn, that's going to be difficult |
| 19:36.24 | relaxok | i finally succeeded in dealing with everything defined as virtual by keeping a version of the tag that isn't virtual and reading that in in-line any time it gets inherited |
| 19:37.00 | relaxok | but i was assuming you still ran the scripts for the virtual stuff first |
| 19:38.11 | relaxok | i suppose i could parse the Scripts tag before doing any inheriting and then don't inherit that stuff if they exist already |
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| 20:01.13 | nevcairiel | of course that only applies to the main frame, if the template defines its own child frames, those can have OnLoads, and those will run |
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| 20:06.58 | Gnarfoz | they have hacked the main frame! |
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| 20:25.07 | Unkle | Gnarfoz: Mess with the best, die like the rest. |
| 20:25.36 | Gnarfoz | Unkle: have you seen the pool on the roof? |
| 20:26.14 | Unkle | a specific one, or will any pool on a roof do? I've stayed in several hotels with roof-top pools. |
| 20:26.47 | znf | |
| 20:26.49 | Gnarfoz | aww |
| 20:26.54 | Gnarfoz | you missed it :( |
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| 20:33.12 | Unkle | Gnarfoz: It's been almost 20 years since I saw it in a theater. |
| 20:33.54 | Gnarfoz | ;) |
| 20:34.18 | Unkle | (And I've never watched it since that night) |
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| 20:36.04 | Gnarfoz | man, the scene's on youtube, but the audio cuts out RIGHT at the relevant spot |
| 20:36.05 | Gnarfoz | wtf |
| 20:36.45 | Gnarfoz | omg and a german dubbed version |
| 20:36.47 | Gnarfoz | gtfo |
| 20:48.41 | Arrowmaster | it wasnt a 'bad' movie, just everything was over the top and wrong |
| 20:49.12 | Neffi_ | No |
| 20:49.24 | Neffi_ | It was so bad, that it was charming, which makes it good |
| 20:49.30 | Arrowmaster | right |
| 20:50.34 | Jamash | what movie? |
| 20:51.30 | Arrowmaster | Hackers |
| 20:52.00 | TC-Work | The last time jolie looked good. |
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| 20:58.03 | Unkle | I recall not thinking she was all that in that film. |
| 21:01.33 | TC-Work | Neither did I. That being said, as a comparison I feel she looked better then. |
| 21:04.02 | Gnarfoz | derp it was 20 years ago |
| 21:04.03 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 21:04.14 | Gnarfoz | why is my Windows scripting host stuff broken |
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| 22:15.33 | Jamash | man, I feel stupid |
| 22:15.38 | TC-Work | No comment |
| 22:15.46 | Dashkal | Obvious comment |
| 22:16.00 | Jamash | I haven't written a new addon in so long I forgot that the first argument to frame event handlers was the frame itself |
| 22:16.21 | Jamash | so I was like, derrr, why isn't catchEvent(event, arg1, ...) working |
| 22:17.02 | foxlit | I have an excellent solution to that problem: use XML; then you don’t have to worry about specifying the function arguments. |
| 22:18.39 | Jamash | my solution in Learning Aid was to have a single event handler that called addon[event](addon, ...) |
| 22:19.04 | Jamash | which is why none of my event handlers have a frame argument |
| 22:20.18 | Jamash | which is why I forgot that the frame argument exists :X |
| 22:20.33 | Jamash | foxlit: XML can die in a fire |
| 22:21.33 | plaw | https://twitter.com/urallagirl/status/472617548152721408 |
| 22:21.44 | plaw | tochlight free for next 3 hours! (ht Wobin) |
| 22:21.48 | plaw | bah wrong URL |
| 22:21.53 | plaw | https://twitter.com/GOGcom/status/481557800578203648 |
| 22:22.11 | plaw | still, Wobin karl_w_w and the other aussies I forget sorry https://twitter.com/urallagirl/status/472617548152721408 |
| 22:26.29 | foxlit | Jamash: mm, should replace it with lisp |
| 22:26.44 | Jamash | foxlit: I'm down with thta |
| 22:26.55 | Jamash | Or Scheme |
| 22:26.58 | foxlit | just for the ))))))))))))))))))))))) |
| 22:28.34 | Jamash | it's not like automatic brace matching is difficult |
| 22:29.01 | foxlit | “(“) << where is your god now? |
| 22:30.20 | Jamash | I bet most C/C++ programmers have written C programs that have half a dozen close curly braces in a row |
| 22:30.45 | Jamash | foxlit: on vacation |
| 22:31.13 | Jamash | also I didn't say it was trivial, I just said it wasn't difficult |
| 22:32.00 | Jamash | foxlit: Out of curiosity, what editor do you use for wow XML? |
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| 22:37.24 | foxlit | Jamash: textmate |
| 22:37.54 | Jamash | hmm, space hulk for $2.50 |
| 22:38.29 | Jamash | or 2 for $4 |
| 22:39.27 | Jamash | foxlit: ew, mac |
| 22:39.59 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
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| 22:43.08 | TC-Work | And that matters why? |
| 22:45.21 | foxlit | because ocassionally you have to read things in addition to writing things. |
| 22:47.22 | TC-Work | Oh, I thought you meant the program was pretty |
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| 22:49.01 | foxlit | (the response carried about as much meaning as the “ew, mac” line that prompted it) |
| 23:00.05 | foxlit | http://pastey.org/view/8c34e243 << that’s so not ambiguous syntax :/ |
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| 23:02.23 | Esamynn|work | foxlit: how so? |
| 23:03.10 | foxlit | there’s only one valid interpretation, and hence no ambiguity. |
| 23:03.44 | foxlit | ("b", "B") is not a valid statement |
| 23:04.07 | nevcairiel | foxlit: it actually executes fine on http://www.lua.org/cgi-bin/demo |
| 23:04.15 | foxlit | 5.2, probably |
| 23:05.41 | Esamynn|work | foxlit: try a("a", "A")("b", "B")("c", "C") |
| 23:06.09 | Esamynn|work | newlines are not actually no ops in Lua, last I checked |
| 23:06.31 | foxlit | it'll obviously work. |
| 23:07.02 | nevcairiel | there is only very few cases were newlines act differently as spaces |
| 23:07.05 | nevcairiel | and guess you found one! |
| 23:07.09 | foxlit | Can you name another? :P |
| 23:07.25 | nevcairiel | using the stupid print".." syntax can trigger another |
| 23:07.28 | nevcairiel | but maybe its rather similar |
| 23:07.30 | nevcairiel | shrugs |
| 23:08.09 | foxlit | (5.2 fixes this by saying "interpret it as a function call, even if what follows is a valid new statement) |
| 23:08.40 | Stanzilla | can't just delete the images that you link, foxlit |
| 23:08.49 | nevcairiel | maybe it was local a = print\n"foobar" |
| 23:08.50 | Stanzilla | please more respect for back log readers! |
| 23:08.51 | nevcairiel | dont remember |
| 23:09.00 | nevcairiel | but same deal i guess |
| 23:09.02 | nevcairiel | just looks different |
| 23:22.02 | Gnarfoz | Stanzilla: must agree, I was stumped to find only darkness earlier, too |
