| 00:24.53 | *** join/#wowuidev jleclanche (~adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 00:30.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Kodiack (~Colto_000@121-73-86-207.cable.telstraclear.net) |
| 00:38.12 | Shirik | oh this is going to e very /popcorn |
| 00:38.15 | Shirik | http://www.businessinsider.com/verizon-netflix-cease-and-desist-2014-6?utm_content=bufferaaed7&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer |
| 00:39.22 | foxlit | who knew that intimate was a verb? |
| 00:40.00 | Shirik | that's what I said! |
| 00:40.05 | Shirik | I had to go look it up |
| 00:40.17 | kd3|hate`net | hint at |
| 00:40.21 | foxlit | and then you found the deliciously conflicting definitions. |
| 00:40.51 | foxlit | “state or make known” vs “imply or hint” |
| 00:43.29 | jleclanche | ~ping |
| 00:43.29 | purl | ~pong |
| 00:45.46 | jleclanche | beautiful, my bank's website is having https setup issues. |
| 00:46.11 | jleclanche | I wonder how any random HN startup can get https right but not fucking banks |
| 00:46.33 | Esamynn|work | foxlit: Learn2English? |
| 00:48.38 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:49.03 | Esamynn|work | I'll forgive you if English is not your primary/first language |
| 00:51.15 | jleclanche | I believe foxlit is danish, in which case it actually is. |
| 00:52.22 | foxlit | I mean there’s already “literally (adv): figuratively” |
| 00:52.54 | Arrowmaster | my friend was joking on FB about having 175000 frequent flyer miles so im trying to offer him my last blizzcon ticket for airline tickets |
| 00:53.41 | Esamynn|work | hahaha |
| 00:54.01 | Arrowmaster | i mean hes never going to use that many miles himself |
| 00:54.15 | Esamynn|work | foxlit: oh, I'll agree English as a lot of quirks |
| 00:55.11 | Esamynn|work | and, as I said, I'm far more forgiving of ppl who didn't grow up speaking it |
| 00:55.26 | Esamynn|work | however, those who did and still speak terrible English just bug me |
| 00:55.29 | Esamynn|work | it's a pet peeve |
| 00:55.30 | Arrowmaster | perks of being in a sorta popular band i guess, rack up frequent flyer miles without ever having to pay for the flights yourself |
| 00:55.52 | foxlit | Esamynn|work: I’m not sure what you want to be forgiving over. :) |
| 00:59.11 | A-KO | so sick. Oh so sick. |
| 00:59.14 | A-KO | Nyquil to the rescue! |
| 00:59.25 | Esamynn|work | one potential translation: I'm far less likely to think less of you ;) |
| 01:00.58 | foxlit | That’s not the part that needed translating. |
| 01:02.04 | foxlit | Is the implication really that intimate (v) is commonly used in your dialect, and people really should be aware of it? |
| 01:02.53 | kd3 | it's not that uncommon. I think it was an SAT or something |
| 01:03.01 | Esamynn|work | perhaps not commonly, but definitely part of my vocabulary |
| 01:03.18 | kd3 | s/SAT/SAT vocab word/ |
| 01:04.05 | zenzelezz | so apparently it's 03:00... |
| 01:04.16 | zenzelezz | I'm not sure if it's the alcohol or just my bad sense of timing |
| 01:05.04 | foxlit | so an artifact of your standardized testing? :) |
| 01:07.28 | foxlit | (I’m kind of struggling to find any legitimate examples of its use in actual writing; filtering the adjectives out is somewhat difficult.) |
| 01:09.12 | kd3 | https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/intimate#Verb |
| 01:11.23 | Simca | verb is definitely infinitely less common, but i've seen it a few times |
| 01:25.10 | foxlit | The fun thing is to try to remember where you’ve seen it :) |
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| 01:27.36 | Amarande | hmmm |
| 01:27.38 | foxlit | kd3’s link quotes Dale Carnegie, for example. |
| 01:27.45 | Amarande | whatever happened to fonter? I can't seem to find it on curse anymore |
| 01:31.27 | Simca | I think I saw it in a book I read in like 6th grade called Stormbreaker |
| 01:34.49 | foxlit | alex rider? |
| 01:34.57 | Simca | yeah, apparently |
| 01:35.30 | foxlit | but also no; not in there. |
| 01:37.35 | Simca | https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=intimated&year_start=1600&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cintimated%3B%2Cc0 |
| 01:39.20 | foxlit | now if only it could sort by amazon popularity or something. |
| 01:41.02 | Simca | intimate is only around 4-5 times more popular |
| 01:41.10 | Simca | apparently |
| 01:42.00 | Amarande | ah, fonter died :( |
| 01:42.08 | Amarande | dangit. what's the usual replacement for that these days? |
| 01:43.09 | foxlit | are the lines cumulative, I wonder? |
| 01:43.09 | Simca | honestly i'm not sure there is |
| 01:43.34 | Simca | Amarande: what's wrong with it? |
| 01:43.48 | Amarande | Simca: so out of date it's no longer considered an active project on curse, for one |
| 01:44.06 | Amarande | last update was in summer 2012 or so, which was before mop even came out |
| 01:44.54 | Amarande | and apparently it's been too long since I played wow last ... I'm losing track of which addons I used to use :( |
| 01:45.01 | foxlit | maybe you should install it anyway |
| 01:45.19 | Simca | it looks like it just uses really standard stuff |
| 01:45.22 | foxlit | curse just sort of auto-flags things after a while, and projects without active authors remain flagged. |
| 01:45.33 | Simca | stuff that hasn't changed in probably 8-10 years |
| 01:53.17 | Simca | heh, looks like "ShouldHideTalentsTab()" is how they plan on showing tooltips for talents that have spec-depedent choices when you don't have a spec |
| 02:07.15 | Amarande | Simca: heh. some people would probably say it should make the tooltip say "Without spec: This talent just shows you off as a baddie." :) |
| 02:07.20 | Amarande | oh right, forgot about the boost heh |
| 02:07.38 | Amarande | first thing that came to mind: "if you are high enough level to have talents and still have not chosen a spec, you may be a bad" |
| 02:09.10 | Amarande | hrm, apparently fonter may really be a dead duck |
| 02:09.43 | Amarande | enabled it, now every time I log on I get a Lua Error dialog with "Message: Unable to create world text handle. Check if font name is valid: Interface\Addons\Fonter\Fonts\EU\.ttf" |
| 02:10.13 | Amarande | I don't remember that happening in the past |
| 02:11.54 | Semlar | well that doesn't look valid to me |
| 02:12.02 | Semlar | there's no filename! |
| 02:12.45 | Amarande | yeah, but it never did that in former days |
| 02:23.28 | Arrowmaster | this movie is hilarious |
| 02:24.30 | Primer | How is it that /raidinfo can see readychecks regardless of raid status (assist, leader), but raid frames can only see it if you're leader or assist? |
| 02:24.35 | pompy | Arrowmaster: which |
| 02:24.41 | Primer | At least this is my experience with PB4 |
| 02:24.48 | Arrowmaster | the grand budapest hotel |
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| 02:33.28 | Amarande | ah, apparently fonter now pops up a lua error until you actually set all the fonts, since there are no defaults |
| 02:39.48 | Semlar | http://wowprogramming.com/docs/widgets/Translation/SetOffset does this move TO an x,y coordinate or move relative to the original position |
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| 02:54.03 | alestane | I think it's relative to the un-animated position, Semlar. |
| 02:54.30 | Semlar | that's what i thought it was but the wording on this makes it sound like it moves to screen coordinates |
| 03:12.49 | Torhal | Cairenn: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbKM5fcSsaEFZRP-bjH8Y9w |
| 03:15.27 | Cairenn | She's phenomenal |
| 03:15.59 | Torhal | Yeah. |
| 03:16.11 | Torhal | Been listening all day. |
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| 03:24.45 | pompy | Torhal: i bet you liked her SOAD piano covers |
| 03:25.39 | Torhal | pompy: I only listened to BYOB so far. |
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| 03:56.16 | Arrowmaster | so this new show crossbones seems like a direct ripoff of black sails including some major plot points |
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| 04:14.01 | pompy | Arrowmaster: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2400631/board/nest/230434600?ref_=tt_bd_1 lol |
| 04:14.43 | Arrowmaster | yeah i havent even finished the first episode yet and dont really like it |
| 04:15.53 | Arrowmaster | i keep pausing it and forgetting i was even watching it |
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| 05:48.31 | kd3|hate`net | holy crap. bill watterson did some pearls before swine strips: http://stephanpastis.wordpress.com/2014/06/07/ever-wished-that-calvin-and-hobbes-creator-bill-watterson-would-return-to-the-comics-page-well-he-just-did/ |
| 05:55.15 | karl_w_w | so i cant remember anything that happened yesterday |
| 05:55.23 | karl_w_w | i must have been damn tired |
| 05:56.54 | kullervo | or nothing of importance happened |
| 06:11.40 | Simca | itemstrings got 2 more IDs tacked on to them in WoD and are even more confusing now |
| 06:12.30 | Simca | looks like they deprecated the old ItemRandomSuffix and ItemRandomProperties dbcs (still listed in the string for backwards compatibility with already generated items) and are using something different now |
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| 06:44.45 | kullervo | so now we'll be lucky to even get the "WTS" in addition to one item link? |
| 06:45.51 | Simca | definitely won't fit 3 any more, like ever |
| 06:46.36 | kullervo | can't fit even two of some of these new MoP links |
| 06:47.05 | Simca | yeah the huge number in the middle is still there |
| 06:47.21 | Simca | though i don't know why if they are getting rid of reforging and valor (so presumably upgrades) |
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| 08:20.01 | nevcairiel | well instead they have random item stats, ie. every time can have "minor" stats, or be warforged, or have a socket, i assume thats stored in the link now |
| 08:20.11 | nevcairiel | s/time/item/ |
| 08:23.40 | Torhal | Diabloized! |
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| 09:47.11 | Rythal | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:53.18 | nevcairiel | the primary stat just switches around, presumably without changing its numeric value, not sure that even needs inclusion |
| 09:55.32 | Fisker- | hey nevcairiel |
| 09:57.25 | nevcairiel | hey Fisker- |
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| 10:09.07 | Simca | yeah numeric value doesn't need inclusion, and all the possibilities are stored in a single field (the second new field) |
| 10:09.18 | Simca | the first new field is confusing - it seems to always be 0 or 1 |
| 10:09.36 | Simca | I think it might be 0 for items generated under the old system and 1 for items generated under the new system |
| 10:09.47 | Simca | seems like a waste of a field, but i can't see any other pattern yet |
| 10:12.23 | Simca | and yeah that second new field is super multipurpose - a '1' makes the item epic and 10 ilvls higher, a '2' makes it into a pristine crafting material, and '307' makes it "of the Fireflash". Presumably higher other IDs will implement the bonus stats too. |
| 10:13.31 | nevcairiel | of the fireflash is a suffix from random enchantment items, not a new feature really |
| 10:13.59 | jleclanche | amazon is selling brand stuff now? http://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasics-NiMH-Precharged-Rechargeable-Batteries/dp/B007B9NV8Q/ |
| 10:14.11 | Simca | yeah, it's just weird they're redoing it in a new field when they already had a field for random enchantment items |
| 10:14.24 | Simca | I guess it's because the new stat system will mandate all those items change around a ton anyway |
| 10:14.29 | nevcairiel | amazon basics has been doing some products for a while jleclanche |
| 10:14.36 | jleclanche | first time i see it |
| 10:17.11 | nevcairiel | maybe they'll collapse the old fields at a later point if all the info is moving to a new one |
| 10:17.25 | Simca | will mean that random enchant items can't have bonus stats, though i guess that's not a big issue |
| 10:17.32 | Simca | since it's usually only on greens |
| 10:17.56 | nevcairiel | cataclysm dropped a few random enchant items in raids, and of course there is the timeless isle with its epics |
| 10:33.24 | karl_w_w | well the bonus stats seem to be trying to do the same thing the random enchants from cata were |
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| 10:41.41 | ConqDK | anyone know what it means, when an addon is listed as insecure and i cant enable it? |
| 10:42.24 | nevcairiel | might be way too old |
| 10:42.31 | Mr_Rabies | i've never seen that before, what addon is doing that? |
| 10:42.31 | nevcairiel | or it was banned |
| 10:42.44 | ConqDK | was thinking all addons are banned in WoD Alpha? |
| 10:42.49 | ConqDK | cant get anything to work |
| 10:43.09 | Mr_Rabies | oh, i think a ton are broken or something at the moment since they're changing a bunch of apis and whatnot |
| 10:43.23 | Mr_Rabies | so they may have just blanket banned them for now? |
| 10:43.24 | ConqDK | just made one with only toc and lua file |
| 10:43.34 | ConqDK | still listed as insecure |
| 10:43.55 | nevcairiel | addons are disabled in the alpha entirely |
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| 10:44.03 | Mr_Rabies | could try forcing the toc to 60000 but i dunno, not in the alpha myself |
| 10:44.04 | nevcairiel | they always do that until a much later point |
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| 10:44.24 | Mr_Rabies | no real point to enable them at the moment since so much will be changing |
| 10:44.40 | ConqDK | yeah.. was afraid it was just a general ban |
| 10:46.21 | Fisker- | why were you afraid_ |
| 10:46.36 | ConqDK | because i suck at plying without addons =) |
| 10:46.45 | *** join/#wowuidev VIad (~Vlad@151.117.45.31.customer.cdi.no) |
| 10:47.08 | karl_w_w | why does your performance matter in an alpha |
| 10:47.30 | ConqDK | usually i "fix" addons that dont work.. but hard to do, when they cant even be enabled =) |
| 10:47.52 | *** join/#wowuidev VIad2 (~Vlad@151.117.45.31.customer.cdi.no) |
| 10:48.12 | ConqDK | well.. need to compare stuff with how it feels on live |
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| 10:49.28 | nevcairiel | maybe you should wait until the game is actually not as broken? :P |
| 10:49.54 | Mr_Rabies | they really want people mostly testing the game that's available in alpha, not anything else |
| 10:50.16 | Mr_Rabies | there should be plenty of time to fix addons by the time they're enabled |
| 10:50.45 | Mr_Rabies | (also i have over 100 addons installed but am set up to play at almost 100% capacity raid-wise if all of them break on patch day |
| 10:51.00 | Mr_Rabies | my biggest bottleneck on patch day is if adibags breaks |
| 10:51.12 | Mr_Rabies | and that's not too big anymore with universal bag searching |
| 10:52.09 | ConqDK | yeah.. bags are pretty easy to work with now.. |
| 10:52.54 | ConqDK | same with new keybinding system.. ususally some of the stuff that annoys me most when I have to setup on a new pc |
| 10:53.06 | Mr_Rabies | 99% of my addons are just quality of life improvements, the only real one that effects actual gameplay is clique and i'll just be slacking on my heals until clique gets fixed if it breaks (as dps, no bo biggie) |
| 10:53.10 | Mr_Rabies | no biggie |
| 10:53.37 | Mr_Rabies | i am a clutch dps healer/brezzer though |
| 10:54.04 | Mr_Rabies | as feral, gotta love feral swiftness |
| 10:54.42 | Mr_Rabies | er, uh |
| 10:54.52 | Mr_Rabies | predatory swiftness |
| 10:55.01 | ConqDK | biggeste anoyance without addons is the tiny showing of runes as DK.. |
| 10:55.10 | Mr_Rabies | http://www.wowhead.com/spell=16974/predatory-swiftness |
| 10:55.24 | Mr_Rabies | my DK's unholy so min/maxing is already pretty out the window |
| 10:55.30 | Mr_Rabies | unholy is just so fun, though |
| 10:55.33 | Mr_Rabies | i'd never go frost |
| 10:55.55 | ConqDK | yeah.. like unholy best.. but i selected frost and cant change it =) |
| 10:56.26 | Mr_Rabies | can't? :O |
| 10:56.42 | ConqDK | will have to start over .. but finally got past some of the bugged garrison parts so annoyed to do them again =) |
| 10:56.51 | ConqDK | no way to get to ebon hold yet |
| 10:57.12 | ConqDK | so stuck with the spezialization you choose |
| 10:58.37 | Mr_Rabies | honestly surprised F&F alpha doesn't have an NDA |
| 10:59.04 | Mr_Rabies | i guess they're hoping the alpha folks will help the hype train going until release, but i'm not convinced |
| 11:04.12 | Mr_Rabies | unless release is like, early august |
| 11:04.42 | zenzelezz | that would be interesting timing |
| 11:04.46 | Mr_Rabies | i'm guessing 6.0 late august at the earliest, WoD in mid-september |
| 11:53.06 | *** join/#wowuidev [1]Archarodim (HydraIRC@78.203.110.56) |
| 11:54.33 | ConqDK | Ran into the Hulkster. http://imgur.com/gallery/RP4yM =) |
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| 12:20.02 | nevcairiel | his name is rulkster |
| 12:20.08 | nevcairiel | with an R |
| 12:24.56 | ConqDK | i know |
| 12:45.09 | mikma | http://i.imgur.com/9nKheCw.jpg |
| 12:55.23 | zenzelezz | ... |
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| 13:09.33 | Simca | F&F Alpha's current state isn't far off from MoP beta's first public build - they mainly just want to limit the testing population so they get real feedback and not just a lot of noise |
| 13:11.39 | Gnarfoz | I can see neither what's funny about that item, nor why you think Goblins got new models |
| 13:13.10 | Gnarfoz | (and how many times do we have to explain that this "alpha" is a beta?) |
| 13:13.34 | ConqDK | looks new to me.. but might just be the lightning |
| 13:14.32 | Simca | goblins haven't changed |
| 13:14.39 | ConqDK | its alpha.. because thats what it says.. =) |
| 13:15.34 | ConqDK | looks and feels alot different.. but again its not my usual character.. jo one random copied.. so might just be that |
| 13:16.41 | ConqDK | you the simca with the pets addons? |
| 13:16.52 | Simca | yeah |
| 13:17.02 | ConqDK | cool.. really like those.. thanks =) |
| 13:18.48 | ConqDK | havn't pet battled since HS beta though =) |
| 13:19.28 | Simca | I haven't pet battled in a long while either, but I keep them updated as best as possible |
| 13:19.39 | Simca | and thanks |
| 13:24.40 | ConqDK | whats this about explaining that alpha is beta? |
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| 13:26.41 | Gnarfoz | it was for Mr_Rabies |
| 14:40.47 | karl_w_w | ConqDK, a lot of things are called something they're not. Like the titanfall 'beta' was simply a demo |
| 14:42.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Simca (~Simca@76.123.93.232) |
| 14:42.27 | karl_w_w | if it's released, it's a beta |
| 14:48.42 | ConqDK | just thought it was a fun discussion. Don't think there really is a definition of what the words describe. It's just what they call it. Alpha is alpha if thats what the developer says it is.. =) |
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| 14:56.15 | Fisker- | Hey karl_w_w |
| 14:56.50 | Fisker- | Remember hots "technical alpha"? |
| 14:56.58 | karl_w_w | wow Fisker- don't be so forward |
| 14:57.04 | karl_w_w | you have to woo a girl |
| 14:57.14 | Simca | Fisker- |
| 14:57.26 | Fisker- | Even if you were I wouldn't |
| 14:57.37 | Fisker- | Would rather woo Simca |
| 14:57.49 | Fisker- | Err I mean |
| 14:57.54 | Fisker- | Simca |
| 14:58.09 | Fisker | Stupid typos |
| 14:59.46 | Simca | I was up for around 40 hours after alpha launch getting things in order and I found I couldn't sleep last night. I think I broke my sleep schedule |
| 15:01.41 | Fisker | Come on |
| 15:01.46 | Fisker | It was always broken |
| 15:01.51 | Stanzilla | 40 hours for questing one zone? |
| 15:01.53 | Stanzilla | you slow bro |
| 15:02.43 | Simca | no, for figuring out the new db2/dbc formats and writing code in the wonky no-addon system to dump all quests/items/npcs |
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| 15:12.28 | *** join/#wowuidev karl_w_w (~Karl@61.116.96.58.static.exetel.com.au) |
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| 15:23.08 | Arrowmaster | well this is going to be fun, im updating my nexus 5 to 4.4.3 and its not recognizing the sim right away so cerberus is sending unauthorized sim alerts on boot |
| 15:23.51 | Fisker | :) |
| 15:25.30 | Arrowmaster | might be the new radio that got flashed |
| 15:27.40 | Arrowmaster | ok everything seems good now, got supersu flashed, adaway reapplied, and xposed + gravitybox working |
| 15:28.26 | Arrowmaster | im really liking xposed + gravitybox over custom roms right now |
| 15:32.27 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO^^ (as@2601:a:f00:465:3867:b35:3f4a:7dd3) |
| 15:32.55 | Gnarfoz | xposed should be the end of custom roms |
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| 15:34.58 | bluworkcow | Cairenn: http://metro.co.uk/2014/06/06/two-kittens-get-down-and-dirty-in-synchronised-moves-to-crunkdance-anthem-4752247/ |
| 15:36.46 | Fisker | dear mother of god Arrowmaster |
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| 17:31.49 | karl_w_w | Arrowmaster is not god, Fisker |
| 17:33.09 | bluworkcow | but-but-but |
| 17:33.12 | bluworkcow | he's so big ! |
| 17:33.56 | bluworkcow | <PROTECTED> |
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| 17:35.30 | Rythal | 4.4.3? damnit I just updated the tablet & phone to 4.4.2... I hate updating, pain in the ass to re-authenticate 20 or so gmail address for the 2-step |
| 17:36.29 | Fisker | wat |
| 17:36.34 | Fisker | Update doesn't wipe your data |
| 17:36.49 | bluworkcow | Fisker does. |
| 17:37.43 | Rythal | For some reason an update never works right for me, and either the phone won't boot.. or i get force crashes... it's probably the rom I use |
| 17:38.27 | Fisker | Well |
| 17:38.36 | Fisker | Root it and backup the authenticator database then |
| 17:39.00 | bluworkcow | http://i.imgur.com/9XFaKoJ.jpg |
| 17:39.04 | bluworkcow | wat |
| 17:40.36 | Dagmar | Yes, I've no idea either why people take pictures of dumb shit at 5000x4000 resolution |
| 17:40.43 | Gnarfoz | saves you from carrying aroudn 1 ct |
| 17:42.26 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 17:42.27 | Arrowmaster | i just downloaded the factory images (sux2bu if you dont have a nexus) and removed the -w from the sh script and deleted the userdata.img from the zip |
| 17:42.33 | Arrowmaster | no data lost |
| 17:42.53 | Arrowmaster | next i start flashing the tablets |
| 17:57.20 | Stanzilla | just have to have an unlocked bootloader for that to work |
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| 18:44.14 | karl_w_w | http://imgur.com/qIsl73l Best. Captcha. Ever. |
| 18:46.00 | Iriel | bluworkcow: That’s why when I write code to display markdowns I check that there’s at least N% saving before making a big deal about it. |
| 18:54.09 | jleclanche | woah |
| 18:54.10 | jleclanche | https://www.globalsign.com/ssl/ssl-open-source/? |
| 18:54.25 | jleclanche | this is fantastic |
| 18:56.27 | Gnarfoz | the page not loading? yeah, fantastic |
| 18:56.37 | Alram | works fine you just suck Gnarfoz |
| 18:56.45 | Gnarfoz | I blame shitty CAs |
| 18:59.11 | Gnarfoz | what kind of cert is it, though |
| 18:59.40 | Gnarfoz | their business is ripping off customers by making arbitrary restrictions on certificates and then selling those as a product |
| 19:00.22 | Gnarfoz | time-stamping? code signing? I'd hope so |
| 19:00.42 | nevcairiel | sounds like a web cert only on first glance |
| 19:01.31 | nevcairiel | there is actually another CA that offers free open-source code-signing certificates, though |
| 19:02.04 | Gnarfoz | if that is the case, while I laud the effort and more competition can certainly never hurt... I must refer to StartSSL being there first, years ago :P |
| 19:03.04 | nevcairiel | StartSSL is great for quick web certs, and I recently even validated properly to get a code-signing cert from them, its just so much cheaper still than the other offers |
| 19:04.07 | Gnarfoz | yeah |
| 19:04.21 | Gnarfoz | I did the personal validation too |
| 19:04.33 | Gnarfoz | basically for fun ;o |
| 19:04.55 | Gnarfoz | wish my company IT guy who does certs wasn't so stupid about it |
| 19:05.21 | Gnarfoz | just bought another 169 € cert for a simple www.domain.com/domain.com cert >_< |
| 19:05.59 | nevcairiel | startssl even gives out those for free, well, as long as the domain runs on a person, if you need company, you probably need validation |
| 19:06.05 | Gnarfoz | because the reseller he wants to keep on using (our previous security guy picked them, we don't even have a security guy anymore) treats that as a "multi-domain" certificate :D |
| 19:06.22 | Gnarfoz | yeah, we'd need to do the 1 person + org validation |
| 19:06.30 | Gnarfoz | but that's $120 |
| 19:06.41 | Gnarfoz | that's almost half of what that cert alone cost >_< |
| 19:06.42 | nevcairiel | and once every couple years at that |
| 19:06.50 | Gnarfoz | not quite correct |
| 19:06.50 | nevcairiel | not for every cert |
| 19:06.58 | Gnarfoz | the validation is valid for a year |
| 19:07.05 | nevcairiel | i have no idea how long the company validation is valid for |
| 19:07.07 | nevcairiel | so yeah :P |
| 19:07.31 | Gnarfoz | if all of your certs expire at the same time and you never need new ones, you can do it once every $lifetime_of_certs years, yeah |
| 19:08.27 | Gnarfoz | still, paying $120 a year to keep the validation up to date for basically unlimited certs of almost all kinds... beats almost any other offer around |
| 19:08.35 | nevcairiel | indeed |
| 19:10.04 | nevcairiel | StartSSL is pretty new in the market, so someone could be worried about trust, but at the very least its in any system from this decade |
| 19:10.39 | Gnarfoz | it was put into Windows XP's cert store via windows update in 2009 |
| 19:10.41 | Gnarfoz | I'm not worried |
| 19:12.23 | nevcairiel | funny story, at heartbleed some dudes petitoned various linux distros and mozilla to revoke the startssl root cert, because startssl typically charges $25 for revocations, and they were worried sysadmisn wouldn't revoke their old certs because of that :p |
| 19:17.36 | jleclanche | I bought a gandi.net cert |
| 19:17.47 | jleclanche | first year is free with my domain and really, it costs as much as the domain itself |
| 19:17.53 | jleclanche | wildcard would sure be nice but, whatever |
| 19:18.27 | nevcairiel | your domain must be expensive |
| 19:18.50 | jleclanche | .ch |
| 19:18.55 | nevcairiel | guess those are |
| 19:19.02 | jleclanche | not really |
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| 19:33.56 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@unaffiliated/kd3) |
| 19:44.03 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: well, what should they have done - taking money only for stuff that actually requires human work is their business model :D |
| 19:44.19 | nevcairiel | Gnarfoz: just saying that there was a huge outrage over that |
| 19:44.31 | Gnarfoz | Sturm im Wasserglas-huge |
| 19:45.07 | nevcairiel | they probably did make quite a bit of money on heartbleed tho |
| 19:45.21 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3|hate`net (~Kaydeethr@unaffiliated/kd3) |
| 19:45.54 | Gnarfoz | I'd wager most people didn't replace their keys =] |
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| 19:53.17 | Cairenn | bluworkcow: roft |
| 19:53.43 | bluworkcow | roft ? |
| 19:53.49 | bluworkcow | rolling on the floor tazing people ? |
| 19:53.56 | Cairenn | -t +l |
| 19:54.10 | bluworkcow | lol |
| 19:55.17 | zenzelezz | maybe it's "rolling on (the) floor trembling" |
| 19:55.20 | zenzelezz | from excitement |
| 19:56.00 | bluworkcow | i go homes nows |
| 20:02.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (~Amarande@24-151-100-63.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 20:02.41 | Amarande | Hrm. After seeing how fonter needs to be configured before it can be used without a Lua error, and playing today, I'm beginning to think some other addons ought to be set up to require configuration or fail :) |
| 20:02.46 | Amarande | GuildInfo, for instance ... heh |
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| 20:21.32 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@unaffiliated/stolenlegacy) |
| 21:03.10 | jleclanche | my french guild on wildstar wants ot play on a french server |
| 21:03.14 | jleclanche | what did i do to deserve this. |
| 21:03.38 | Dagmar | Allowed yourself to become "friends" with French people |
| 21:04.53 | jleclanche | Dagmar: people never really become friends with french people |
| 21:05.16 | Fisker | ^^ |
| 21:05.17 | jleclanche | we just kind of use them for a while, maybe let one sleep in the living room for a night |
| 21:06.02 | Fisker | Just because you crossed a border does not not make you French |
| 21:10.11 | zenzelezz | jleclanche: in Anarchy Online, some nationalities trended toward one faction... when someone I know switched faction, a question soon emerged... "is this whole faction French?" |
| 21:10.34 | jleclanche | I know how that feels |
| 21:10.47 | jleclanche | my first wow server was 40% dutch, 30% swedish |
| 21:11.00 | Kalroth | sounds like a great mix! |
| 21:11.17 | jleclanche | yeah horde was worse, like 99% french. |
| 21:11.38 | Kalroth | Stormrage was much better, it had a high percentage of danish! |
| 21:11.44 | jleclanche | I was talking about you. |
| 21:11.47 | Kalroth | oh |
| 21:11.52 | Kalroth | fu |
| 21:12.18 | Kalroth | i think alliance had more frenchies |
| 21:12.22 | jleclanche | haha no |
| 21:12.25 | Kalroth | but we had some too |
| 21:12.33 | Kalroth | well there was you and uhh, the paladin |
| 21:12.35 | jleclanche | we had veeeery few french people |
| 21:12.36 | Alram | hello Kalroth my dearest friend |
| 21:12.37 | Kalroth | Mordret |
| 21:12.41 | Kalroth | hej Alram |
| 21:12.48 | jleclanche | yes, he was like one of the four frenchies on the server, me included |
| 21:12.55 | Kalroth | he had a hot sister |
| 21:13.09 | Kalroth | well he presumably still does |
| 21:13.09 | jleclanche | we had a high percentage of greek, swedish and dutch |
| 21:13.17 | Kalroth | oh yeah, greeks |
| 21:13.20 | Kalroth | malaka everywhere |
| 21:13.29 | jleclanche | what was the guild again |
| 21:13.31 | jleclanche | all in caps |
| 21:14.00 | Kalroth | oh man, i'm too old to remember vanilla guilds |
| 21:14.12 | jleclanche | you dont remember menethil mercenaries?! |
| 21:14.16 | Kalroth | oh! |
| 21:14.25 | Kalroth | they weren't all cap tho |
| 21:14.30 | jleclanche | yeah it wasnt them |
| 21:15.05 | Kalroth | http://www.wowprogress.com/guild/eu/stormrage/Menethil+Mercenaries/rating.tier16_25 the guild was active this year! |
| 21:15.07 | jleclanche | Kalroth: <GREEK DEFENDERS> |
| 21:15.17 | Amarande | heh, when you mention server names I keep thinking of the US ones instead |
| 21:15.18 | jleclanche | I believe |
| 21:15.38 | Amarande | pretty sure Stormrage is one of the top pop alliance servers still here *checks realmpop* |
| 21:16.02 | *** join/#wowuidev ZorbaTHut (tocohl@maximilian.pavlovian.net) |
| 21:16.08 | Kalroth | it was something like 2/3s alliance at launch |
| 21:16.16 | Kalroth | but i think it was more like 50/50 when i quit playing |
| 21:16.16 | jleclanche | Kalroth: http://www.wowwiki.com/Server:Stormrage_Europe |
| 21:16.37 | Kalroth | haha |
| 21:17.00 | jleclanche | Kalroth: btw, do you know if Hearthstone's Gnimsh is the same as ours? |
| 21:17.06 | Alram | y& |
| 21:17.10 | jleclanche | the gnome mage grand marshal |
| 21:17.28 | Kalroth | no idea |
| 21:17.42 | Amarande | yeah, stormrage is the top alliance server on us by far |
| 21:17.52 | Amarande | 14.73 A:H ratio, 220,187 alliance on realmpop |
| 21:18.06 | Kalroth | jleclanche: man, so many old names |
| 21:18.16 | Amarande | also, is WoW really that down on population atm? |
| 21:18.23 | Kalroth | FlameOn had that dude that liked to hate on us |
| 21:18.29 | Amarande | last night (during peak prime timey hours) I was noting that the highest pop US server atm is "High" pop |
| 21:18.29 | jleclanche | ohhh |
| 21:18.32 | Amarande | no Locked, not even any Full |
| 21:18.55 | zenzelezz | ah, Greeks... I swear there was a time on EU-Silvermoon where every other guild name seemed to be "Hellenic <...>" |
| 21:19.11 | Amarande | mind you they really should do away with that "locked" population level |
| 21:19.27 | Amarande | it makes Full a complete misnomer, and kind of implies things that aren't actually true |
| 21:19.48 | Arrowmaster | are not as many people going to blizzcon this year? theres still people trying to sell extra tickets for face value (including me) this seems unheard of in the past |
| 21:20.19 | jleclanche | Arrowmaster: I wouldnt rely on that metric |
| 21:20.25 | Amarande | Arrowmaster: maybe more people like you managed to snag extra tickets that would otherwise have been bought by professional scalpers for stupidly high markups |
| 21:20.45 | jleclanche | Arrowmaster: as you know i had to give my remaining tickets away for them not to go to waste a couple years ago |
| 21:21.02 | Arrowmaster | true |
| 21:21.11 | Amarande | friggin resellers vampiring on the system |
| 21:21.24 | Amarande | apparently that's part of the reason it's so hard to book dragon con rooms anymore |
| 21:21.43 | Amarande | there's apparently professional booking sites like booking.com that snag up tons of them to sell at near double the price :P |
| 21:21.49 | Arrowmaster | id give you mine but i dont think your interested in paying for the rest of the expenses |
| 21:21.55 | Amarande | (not only that, but make it necessary to be able to *pre-pay in full* to even get that LOL) |
| 21:22.36 | jleclanche | Arrowmaster: I can probably get press access if I try; I'm just not interested in ever stepping foot in the US again |
| 21:22.57 | Arrowmaster | because of that incident last time or something else? |
| 21:23.25 | jleclanche | political reasons |
| 21:23.33 | Arrowmaster | good enough |
| 21:27.52 | Amarande | one of these years I might make it to blizzcon, but eh, there's always the virtual ticket |
| 21:27.59 | Amarande | and I probably want to make it to dragon con again first anyways |
| 21:28.02 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@c83-250-213-196.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 21:28.02 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 21:28.07 | Amarande | (especially since *that* doesn't have a virtual ticket, LOL) |
| 21:28.32 | Arrowmaster | so i was about to start planing a new desktop or server, something i can run a lot of VMs on to get some windows server knowledge, but now im having massive car troubles |
| 21:29.07 | Amarande | Arrowmaster: spec something like my PC maybe, you can even VM and play WoW at the same time no problems :) |
| 21:31.58 | Amarande | http://pcpartpicker.com/p/xdT4pg |
| 21:32.20 | Amarande | I've got a small Debian VM in the background already through the Win8.1 Pro version of Hyper-V ... I don't even feel its impact one whit |
| 21:32.26 | Arrowmaster | i was thinking a xeon for ecc ram but then it probably wouldnt have great gaming preformance |
| 21:32.58 | Amarande | Arrowmaster: that's only because of the ECC RAM actually |
| 21:33.24 | Amarande | the E3's at least are practically identical to i5/i7 models (except for the one top end E3 that has no i7 equivalent and is like 600 bucks ... I'm not sure what ever would make that a good buy :S) |
| 21:33.49 | Amarande | the problem is that I've never seen ECC RAM any faster than CL11, while usual gaming RAM tends to be CL9 |
| 21:34.24 | Amarande | mind you, I still wonder if in a couple generations there will be no more non-ECC RAM, but *shrug* |
| 21:34.57 | Arrowmaster | hell the ecc ram we use now for homeservers didnt exist a couple of generations ago |
| 21:35.01 | Amarande | (because eventually we're going to be cramming data so tightly in to RAM that probably ECC will be more or less mandatory for basic reliability) |
| 21:35.30 | Arrowmaster | it used to be unbuffered non-ecc or buffered ecc, now we have unbuffered ecc |
| 21:35.46 | Amarande | we're already putting 8GB on a stick, DDR4 will be at least 16GB max for plain jane non-ECC sticks |
| 21:36.10 | Amarande | double each generation, by DDR6 or so we'll be trying to cram 64GB into the same DIMM size, I can't imagine that being reliable without some form of hardware error correction on all DIMMs, not just server ones |
| 21:36.50 | Arrowmaster | im still not sure what i want to use for my data storage, if i go with ZFS i pretty much need to use ECC and BRTFS i probably should anyway |
| 21:37.16 | Arrowmaster | im leaning towards BRTFS lately |
| 21:37.17 | Amarande | yeah, ZFS pretty much does call for ECC, from what I understand it's practically ramdisk caching |
| 21:38.18 | Amarande | The only issue with ZFS is that either you have to depend on a third-party driver that cannot ever be integrated with the main line kernel, or you have to learn how to use IllumOS, or you have to have physically separate system and storage drives if you want high capacity (because FreeBSD cannot yet boot from GPT drives until 10.0) |
| 21:38.25 | Arrowmaster | you schedule it to do a zfs clean regularly where it reads and rewrites the entire array, if theres a ram error during that youre fucked but only that file is gone i think |
| 21:38.53 | Arrowmaster | wtf freebsd doesnt boot from gpt? |
| 21:39.03 | Amarande | I'm kind of leery of critical third-party drivers after the whole fglrx fiasco |
| 21:39.22 | Amarande | Arrowmaster: 9.0 doesn't, 10.0 does but it's still in -CURRENT far as I recall |
| 21:39.27 | Arrowmaster | ive heard good things about zfs-on-linux though, they seem to be managing it well |
| 21:40.10 | Amarande | 9.0 can use GPT volumes as storage drives apparently, but not as the boot drive |
| 21:40.48 | Amarande | I'm actually not really surprised, since FreeBSD has always pretty much used its own special partitioning method, so a major change to disk level partitioning paradigms probably hit it hard |
| 21:41.01 | Amarande | (especially since it's the kind of OS that needs to be 100% absolutely sure about stability before going release) |
| 21:41.07 | Gnarfoz | why would you assume Xeons have bad gaming performance |
| 21:41.41 | Arrowmaster | it wasnt the xeon i was concerned about, it was the different MB chipset i would need to use to get ECC |
| 21:41.52 | Amarande | also, speaking of Xeons ... if you don't need integrated graphics, you should ALWAYS get a Xeon |
| 21:41.57 | Amarande | a Core is a waste of money in that case |
| 21:41.59 | Gnarfoz | chipset? memory controller in the CPU |
| 21:42.25 | nevcairiel | you still need a server chipset for ecc ram for some reason |
| 21:42.32 | Arrowmaster | yeah its stupid |
| 21:42.36 | Amarande | e.g. E3-1240 V3 is $270-280 or so, whereas its equivalent Core is the i7-4770 (which is over $300) |
| 21:42.43 | Gnarfoz | in any case, why would that affect gaming performance much |
| 21:42.45 | nevcairiel | not that it matters, ecc is only pointless for dekstops |
| 21:42.50 | Gnarfoz | pci-e in the CPU, gpu on pci-e |
| 21:43.06 | Amarande | nevcairiel: he's been thinking of giving ZFS a go, for which ECC is necessary basically always |
| 21:43.34 | Amarande | dangit, I'd tell Gnarfoz about the CL thing but he has me on ignore. LOL |
| 21:43.45 | nevcairiel | sounds like zfs has a terrible design then |
| 21:44.03 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@unaffiliated/kd3) |
| 21:45.03 | Amarande | nevcairiel: it's because the performance of ZFS demands holding as much data in RAM as possible |
| 21:45.16 | Amarande | and unlike regular caching, that data in RAM is actually *what's going to be written to disk* eventually |
| 21:45.21 | Arrowmaster | not really true |
| 21:45.32 | Amarande | as in it holds the data for a lot longer than a regular write cache at least as far as I understand it |
| 21:46.32 | Amarande | but yeah, it seems to make much heavier use of RAM as an inherent part of filesystem tasks than most FS ... so pretty much you want as much RAM as you can get and if it's not ECC you're playing with fire |
| 21:47.10 | Arrowmaster | its the dedupe the uses massive fucking amounts of ram |
| 21:47.18 | Amarande | ah, *that's* what it is |
| 21:47.54 | Arrowmaster | the need for ecc is because part of its regular maintenance is reading stored data into ram and rewriting it, and it assumes whatever is in ram is correct |
| 21:48.16 | Amarande | yeah, dedupe is a RAM hog ... and to boot, I'm still not quite convinced it won't become almost legally mandatory for a lot of servers in the future, too :S |
| 21:48.31 | Arrowmaster | https://pthree.org/2013/12/10/zfs-administration-appendix-c-why-you-should-use-ecc-ram/ |
| 21:48.36 | Amarande | it's a somewhat reasonable interpretation of things like the Megaupload stuff |
| 21:49.09 | Amarande | and at least if I understand the implications of dedupe correctly :) |
| 21:49.15 | Arrowmaster | i run a manual dedupe on one of my drives when it gets close to full, just make all the dupes hardlinks |
| 21:49.58 | nevcairiel | well that works if you have actual duped files, which doesn't seem like it would cause gigabytes of space loss |
| 21:50.14 | Arrowmaster | large media files |
| 21:50.46 | nevcairiel | why would you keep dupes of those |
| 21:50.56 | Arrowmaster | i dont |
| 21:51.08 | Arrowmaster | i just convert them to hardlinks and move on |
| 21:51.22 | nevcairiel | the question is why would they exist twice in the first place |
| 21:51.32 | Arrowmaster | different places in the directory tree |
| 21:51.41 | nevcairiel | thats not an answer to why |
| 21:51.44 | Arrowmaster | came from different sources |
| 21:52.44 | Arrowmaster | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:03.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~Funkeh`@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 22:03.13 | Amarande | wow, am I double glad I gave up my DK during cata now |
| 22:03.21 | Amarande | poor class just can't seem to catch a break at all :( |
| 22:04.00 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:04.51 | Amarande | foxlit: heh, sounds like flying from the US to Europe |
| 22:05.01 | Amarande | the airfare itself is friggin less than half of the total |
| 22:05.37 | jleclanche | Amarande: thats the case for every flight |
| 22:05.50 | Amarande | I considered a trip to Italy a couple years ago ... then I looked at the airfares, and it's like, similar to domestic airfare for the fare itself, but then like 500 bucks in fees |
| 22:05.55 | Amarande | it's worse than banking! :p |
| 22:06.23 | Amarande | jleclanche: US domestic flights are fairly light on the fees compared to actual airfare |
| 22:06.41 | Amarande | international flights, not so much though, at least to europe (I hear some other international destinations like the Caribbean are a lot cheaper) |
| 22:07.16 | jleclanche | All content in Draenor is currently suited to these new values, and Siege of Orgrimmar has actually been converted to use the new raid structure (since I know that the absolute first thing everyone will want to do upon getting access to our Alpha is to go run Siege) |
| 22:07.51 | Amarande | jleclanche: there's a reason for that, people will want to snag the 90-100 heirloom weapons for their test toons I'm sure |
| 22:08.22 | jleclanche | .. |
| 22:08.31 | jleclanche | no |
| 22:09.13 | jleclanche | people, getting the alpha, will not go in siege of orgrimmar to clear the entire instance, kill the final boss, to run a 5% chance of getting one heirloom. a week. |
| 22:09.30 | Amarande | ah ... I had had the impression it was guaranteed, but that might have been nerfed |
| 22:09.32 | jleclanche | you see, ghostcrawler made a thing called a "joke" |
| 22:09.35 | Amarande | I haven't played much since 5.1 |
| 22:09.49 | jleclanche | you've no idea how much I cant tell |
| 22:10.17 | Amarande | that's true, you'll probably get to 100 long before you'd get the loom |
| 22:10.27 | Alram | ghostcrawler said halflife 3 confirmed at blizzcon |
| 22:10.28 | Alram | im still waiting |
| 22:10.39 | Amarande | even with the fact that with how things have ramped up over expansions, we'll probably need more experience points in the 90s than we did in Diablo II, LOL |
| 22:11.21 | VIad | "hey let's play a round of diablo rift - haven't done that in a while! oh, 2 minutes in random network disconnect got to restart the rift. fuck you!" |
| 22:11.55 | Amarande | VIad: hah, sounds like Diablo II days |
| 22:12.05 | Amarande | VIad: hey, at least when you DC in Diablo III, you can get back right in |
| 22:12.07 | VIad | booted to the main menu, still connected, yet the game whined I was disconnected, probably like a 50 ms hickup giving the game a fit |
| 22:12.17 | VIad | rift eat up reagents to open and progress resets :( |
| 22:12.21 | Amarande | back in the day, it was an hour of being unable to play that character without simply getting FAILED TO JOIN GAME :p |
| 22:12.22 | VIad | that's the worst part |
| 22:12.44 | VIad | playing a single player game (atm not playing with anyone) and getting booted from time to time, loosing my progress :P |
| 22:12.58 | Amarande | I always dreaded lagging out in D2 because of that ... not only did you risk losing anything you got too recently due to a lag rollback |
| 22:12.59 | jleclanche | also I just realized that I call any random blue talking about dev "ghostcrawler" |
| 22:13.01 | jleclanche | i miss him. |
| 22:13.10 | Amarande | but your character was stuck in limbo for an hour or more |
| 22:13.39 | Amarande | wonder if that's still really a problem though ... the bots must have left D2 behind by now as the playerbase wanes |
| 22:13.56 | Amarande | (and especially the dupers, who I think were the real cause of so much lagout in D2) |
| 22:14.24 | Amarande | bots I never really minded, they didn't do anything that wasn't possible for a human player after all ... was the dupers I hated with a passion, because they intentionally lag out servers to ply their trade far as I can tell |
| 22:17.52 | Amarande | and this was diablo ... you didn't have to care what people did in their own instances of the game :) |
| 22:18.11 | Thunder_Child | I'm sure he misses you too. |
| 22:18.57 | Amarande | ah, did GC leave the company? |
| 22:19.50 | tlund | yes, GC is at Riot Games now. |
| 22:21.21 | Amarande | ah |
| 22:22.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~RyanNL@adsl-74-226-64-45.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 22:22.35 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 22:34.05 | VIad | yay I made a full run without more DCs |
| 22:45.14 | Amarande | hrm. guessing the alpha is NDA'd tighter than Fort Knox right now, otherwise I'd ask a couple questions :) |
| 22:45.40 | MiRai | WoD alpha? There is no NDA for that. |
| 22:45.50 | MiRai | Everyone and their mother is streaming it and making videos about it. |
| 22:45.56 | Amarande | namely a) whether we should expect 90-91 to be the same kind of brutality as 80-81 due to the ilvl jump (which actually I'm guessing will be even more stark than the one at Cata) |
| 22:46.32 | Amarande | and b) whether it's going to actually exercise one's computer more (I feel a tad overspecced for wow at the moment, don't think I've noticed the frame rate go below 140, heh) |
| 22:49.52 | Alram | theres barely any tech changes |
| 22:50.03 | Alram | some outline shaders and new wind tech |
| 22:50.05 | Amarande | ah, thought maybe the more detailed models would raise the demand |
| 22:50.06 | Alram | thats probably it |
| 22:50.16 | Alram | yeah they might but probably not too much |
| 22:50.23 | MiRai | they dropped MSAA for... FXAA and CMAA and gave SSAO a third tier (Ultra) |
| 22:50.54 | Amarande | I guess a Xeon E3 and a 770 are a bit more than WoW needs, LOL |
| 22:51.01 | MiRai | I imagine the new models can raise the load on hardware because there's an option to turn them off |
| 22:51.33 | Amarande | though yeah, I'm also wondering if 90-91 is going to be an exercise in pain like first setting foot into Vashj'ir at 80 is |
| 22:52.08 | Amarande | we're going up what, almost 150 item levels now if you're just coming in from Pandaria without doing any 90 heroics or raids? |
| 22:52.33 | Amarande | even 80 was only a 98 level jump (you'd be in green 174, going to green 272) |
| 22:53.16 | Amarande | hopefully there is a catch-up vendor like pandaria and hyjal have (and vashj'ir for some reason doesn't, dagnabbit) |
| 22:57.23 | Gnarfoz | <Alram> theres barely any tech changes <-- ...that you have noticed |
| 22:57.53 | Gnarfoz | MiRai: surprise? multiply polygon count -> no performance change would have been weird :p |
| 22:58.03 | Alram | well yeah Gnarfoz |
| 22:58.24 | Alram | that and ive been doing nothing but messing with WoD files since it came out |
| 22:58.28 | Gnarfoz | I hope they just disabled MSAA for testing |
| 22:58.48 | MiRai | Gnarfoz: same - I'd like MSAA to make a return |
| 22:59.00 | MiRai | it was enabled in the early builds of alpha |
| 22:59.19 | Gnarfoz | while CMAA and FXAA where also available? |
| 22:59.25 | MiRai | no |
| 22:59.28 | Gnarfoz | well. |
| 23:00.12 | MiRai | I imagine you can still use DX9 and force MSAA/SGSSAA |
| 23:01.59 | Gnarfoz | why would that be related |
| 23:02.40 | Gnarfoz | if anything, using DX11 should make it possible to have MSAA on transparent textures, too (but last I checked, WoW didn't use deferred shading/lighting) |
| 23:02.52 | Gnarfoz | I kind of assume that's what they changed |
| 23:03.00 | MiRai | Right, but nVidia doesn't give us DX11 AA bits |
| 23:03.02 | MiRai | only DX9 |
| 23:03.08 | Gnarfoz | eh? |
| 23:03.13 | MiRai | there's been a large petition on their forum about it for some time |
| 23:03.15 | Gnarfoz | "AA bits" is supposed to be what? |
| 23:03.27 | MiRai | through a third-party program like nvidia inspector |
| 23:03.37 | Gnarfoz | I don't follow ^^ |
| 23:03.51 | Gnarfoz | MSAA was available with DX11 for all this time |
| 23:04.07 | MiRai | Right, but I've just said it's not in the drop-down anymore and it's been replaced with FXAA and CMAA |
| 23:04.34 | Gnarfoz | I'm aware, I'm in the F&F |
| 23:04.51 | Gnarfoz | and I said, I hope they put it back in |
| 23:04.55 | Alram | you dont need to be in the f&f to find that out! ohohoh |
| 23:04.56 | Gnarfoz | I don't see what DX11 or nvidia have to do with it |
| 23:04.58 | MiRai | Okay heh - I guess I don't know what you meant by this > 18:01 Gnarfoz why would that be related |
| 23:05.12 | Gnarfoz | Alram: if you want first-hand information, you do (derp :D) |
| 23:05.23 | Gnarfoz | MiRai: DX9 |
| 23:05.27 | Alram | thats not what i meant Gnarfoz pls |
| 23:05.36 | Gnarfoz | why would that be related to MSAA being in the dropdown |
| 23:06.06 | Alram | i meant more like you can just start the client and find out |
| 23:06.12 | Alram | you dont have to actually have access |
| 23:06.20 | MiRai | Currently, in order to AA transparent textures you need SGSSAA which requires MSAA either through the game client or through a third party program like nvidia inspector |
| 23:06.43 | Gnarfoz | ok, I don't know what that is |
| 23:06.48 | MiRai | okay then :) |
| 23:06.51 | Gnarfoz | I was talking about Blizzard |
| 23:07.08 | Gnarfoz | anyway \o/ |
| 23:07.15 | Gnarfoz | CMAA doesn't look too bad |
| 23:07.40 | MiRai | I'd like to see it in action myself since I've never played a game with it before |
| 23:07.58 | MiRai | FXAA is no good (for me) since I like to use heavy duty AA like SGSSAA |
| 23:08.01 | Gnarfoz | the Intel guy who invented it has a sample application |
| 23:09.10 | MiRai | I imagine it doesn't AA transparency |
| 23:10.46 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (~quassel@unaffiliated/airtonix) |
| 23:12.21 | *** join/#wowuidev pigeon (~pigeon@eth5284.nsw.adsl.internode.on.net) |
| 23:14.28 | znf | Much AA's |
| 23:14.37 | Alram | no znf no |
| 23:15.10 | znf | wow? |
| 23:15.15 | Alram | no. |
| 23:15.27 | znf | This doge is condusesem |
| 23:15.38 | znf | Confused |
| 23:15.41 | g0urra | very doge |
| 23:15.51 | znf | This doge also needs a damn new phone |
| 23:16.09 | znf | Fuckin' iOS |
| 23:18.06 | jleclanche | % du incremental-enUS/ 15936924 incremental-enUS/ |
| 23:18.06 | jleclanche | % du /media/Touro/home/wow/patches.3/incremental-enUS 15936960 /media/Touro/home/wow/patches.3/incremental-enUS |
| 23:18.15 | jleclanche | Fuck you, western digital |
| 23:18.26 | jleclanche | broken piece of shit firmware |
| 23:18.34 | jleclanche | thanks for the disk corruption |
| 23:25.28 | znf | How is that the firmware's fault? |
| 23:25.30 | znf | Oh |
| 23:26.31 | znf | Rsync it |
| 23:28.09 | Amarande | znf: more likely bad RAM on the disk controller, is my guess. I've heard it suggested as to how I had the drive from hell last year |
| 23:31.57 | jleclanche | No |
| 23:32.02 | jleclanche | it's the firmware's fault |
| 23:32.19 | jleclanche | this disk has been spinning non stop ever since it was plugged in because of firmware issues |
| 23:32.53 | jleclanche | I hadnt noticed how bad it was until somewhat recently since its actually quite silent |
| 23:38.52 | Gnarfoz | MiRai: I'd assume CMAA and such always cover that, why else implement them ;p (difficulties with deferred shading/lighting aside) |
| 23:39.08 | Amarande | ah, so it's been showing symptoms all the time |
| 23:39.29 | Amarande | mine was the sort that would show up okay on every test and often even *mostly* work, but would quietly corrupt data at random (sometimes not so quietly, if it was the windows install getting mangled) |
| 23:39.30 | jleclanche | maybe, maybe not. i only started paying attention recently |
| 23:39.47 | MiRai | Gnarfoz: SSAA and SGSSAA are the only two ways that I know of to tackle transparent AA |
| 23:40.03 | Gnarfoz | why would "constantly rotating" -> data corruption? they're HDDs, they're MADE for spinning :D |
| 23:40.25 | Gnarfoz | MiRai: ...for when you're using MSAA as your AA solution, I though |
| 23:40.35 | Amarande | hell I even ran a full test with mhdd on that cursed drive and it came up clean |
| 23:40.36 | MiRai | SGSSAA relies on data from MSAA |
| 23:40.47 | MiRai | w/o MSAA, SGSSAA cannot happen |
| 23:40.57 | Gnarfoz | that's besides the point |
| 23:41.07 | MiRai | Then what are we talking about? |
| 23:41.13 | Gnarfoz | I'm saying if you weren't using MSAA, you wouldn't need transparency anti-aliasing |
| 23:41.18 | MiRai | FXAA, MSAA, and likely CMAA don't AA transparency |
| 23:41.21 | MiRai | of course you do |
| 23:41.27 | Gnarfoz | SSAA doesn't need it? |
| 23:41.28 | MiRai | MSAA doesn't AA transparent textures |
| 23:41.44 | Gnarfoz | which is the "other" AA before these new-fangled shader-AA started cropping up |
| 23:41.49 | Gnarfoz | that's what I just said |
| 23:41.55 | Gnarfoz | MSAA can't do it because it works off geometry |
| 23:42.00 | MiRai | SSAA is a brute force method of downsampling, it relies on nothing but rendering the scene at a large resolution and downsampling it to your in-game resolution |
| 23:42.00 | Gnarfoz | and textures... aren't |
| 23:42.05 | Gnarfoz | exactly. |
| 23:42.12 | MiRai | Then I have no idea what we're talking about |
| 23:42.26 | Gnarfoz | that FXAA and CMAA (and the other shader-based ones) are not based on MSAA |
| 23:42.47 | Gnarfoz | hence: I'm not assuming they need to work the same way as these hybrid hacks that enable you to run MSAA+something else for the transparency |
| 23:43.15 | Gnarfoz | they all do edge detection at some point in the rendering process |
| 23:43.34 | Gnarfoz | since they're not based on MSAA, why would edges of transparent textures not be visible to them? |
| 23:43.53 | MiRai | Well, both FXAA and SMAA (commonly used through SweetFX) don't work on transparent textures well at all, and because the CMAA page on Intel's site mentions nothing about transparency, I imagine it doesn't work with transparency either |
| 23:44.08 | Gnarfoz | why would it mention it, it works on the finished image oO |
| 23:44.18 | Gnarfoz | and why don't FXAA and SMAA? |
| 23:44.30 | Gnarfoz | I don't understand what the limitation is supposed to be |
| 23:44.35 | Gnarfoz | and don't say "they just don't" |
| 23:44.35 | Gnarfoz | :p |
| 23:45.02 | MiRai | I'm confused... |
| 23:46.01 | Gnarfoz | maybe I need to look into why FXAA and SMAA would be limited on this, and you into what spawned their necessity in the first place =D (I suggest the "deferred shading" wikipedia article) |
| 23:46.31 | MiRai | I don't know what deferred shading has to do with removing the AA from transparency |
| 23:46.39 | Gnarfoz | everything, when MSAA is concerned |
| 23:47.32 | Gnarfoz | meh, back to Wildstar, my plate is empty ;> |
| 23:47.42 | MiRai | Okay. Well, I think this conversation originally spawned because of AA on transparency, but with the loss of MSAA we no longer have an efficient way of making sure almost all of the AA is removed from the scene |
| 23:47.56 | Gnarfoz | (I think you mean... "A"? :D) |
| 23:48.14 | MiRai | yes, right |
| 23:48.20 | MiRai | it's a lot of typing and I'm just confused at this point heh |
| 23:48.31 | Gnarfoz | and, sure we do, all of the shader-based AA solutions should cover "everything" -- but that's where we disagree |
| 23:48.47 | Gnarfoz | and I must resist the temptation to start research on that now :P |
| 23:48.53 | Gnarfoz | I'm level 10, lowest in the guild! |
| 23:48.58 | Gnarfoz | = slacker |
| 23:49.09 | MiRai | I've yet to see any method, straight MSAA or any other edge-detection method remove all of the aliasing in the scene efficiently |
| 23:49.27 | MiRai | they're all "pretty good" at what they do, but they don't remove all of it and many textures still suffer from 'shimmering' |
| 23:50.21 | MiRai | it really comes down to personal preference in how much aliasing you're willing to tolerate in a scene before it's "good enough" |
| 23:50.32 | Amarande | aw, man. good thing I'm way overspecced for wow |
| 23:50.42 | Amarande | I just learned that apparently running VMs on Win8.1 means you can't use turbo boost, at all |
| 23:51.06 | Amarande | not even the minimum turbo that you get when all cores are loaded ... goes all the way down to stock |
| 23:51.26 | Gnarfoz | of course |
| 23:51.52 | Gnarfoz | if you want perfect, you want SSAA, but you metioned "efficient" and... that certainly doesn't apply to SSAA ^^ |
| 23:52.10 | MiRai | if you have the horsepower to use SSAA it's definitely efficient |
| 23:52.20 | Gnarfoz | that... is an oxymoron |
| 23:52.29 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3|hate`net (~Kaydeethr@unaffiliated/kd3) |
| 23:54.02 | jleclanche | MiRai: you seem to confuse "efficient" and "usable" |
| 23:54.27 | MiRai | Right |
| 23:54.49 | MiRai | SSAA isn't efficient in terms of GPU and power usage, but is definitely "usable" with today's hardware |
| 23:56.05 | Gnarfoz | that directly scales with the complexity of the graphics and the resolution you're displaying them at in the first place |
| 23:56.23 | Gnarfoz | i.e. it'll never be usable on current-gen high-end stuff without throwing a lot of hardware at it :| |
| 23:56.55 | MiRai | But "throwing a lot of hardware at it" today is the same as having the current generation equipment |
| 23:57.16 | MiRai | one high-end GPU and a mid-range CPU can tackle WoW with 3x3 SSAA |
| 23:57.23 | Gnarfoz | there is a difference between having a 780ti and having 3 of them |
| 23:57.31 | Gnarfoz | WoW?! yes, of course |
| 23:57.35 | Gnarfoz | WoW is laughable :p |
| 23:57.37 | ZorbaTHut | I think what he's saying is that SSAA will always be capable of playing the last generation's games tolerably well, and this generation's games not at all |
| 23:57.53 | Gnarfoz | hey ZorbaTHut! :o |
| 23:57.55 | ZorbaTHut | WoW is not even close to last-generation, though, it's ancient. Practically runs on a toaster :V |
| 23:57.57 | Gnarfoz | long time no see (I think) |
| 23:57.58 | ZorbaTHut | heya gnarfoz :) |
| 23:58.04 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, I don't chat in here much anymore |
| 23:58.32 | Gnarfoz | still more of a #riftuidev person? ;) |
| 23:58.49 | ZorbaTHut | yep :) and lately, not even time for that, unfortunately - I've turned into a rendering engineer somehow |
| 23:58.57 | Gnarfoz | \o/ |
| 23:59.27 | Gnarfoz | as long as you're having some measure of fun :> |
