| 00:01.18 | Gnarfoz | I can see almost 3 hours back into the past without scrolling... and I haven't even turned off joins/quits/parts :D |
| 00:01.24 | Gnarfoz | you should give it a try ;) |
| 00:01.37 | Torhal | Tiny font is tiny. |
| 00:02.12 | Gnarfoz | you have a tiny font? even better! |
| 00:05.40 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
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| 00:29.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Droolio (~drool@host86-162-42-166.range86-162.btcentralplus.com) |
| 00:31.58 | *** join/#wowuidev jleclanche (~adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 00:38.39 | jleclanche | new mobo/cpu set up. lovely |
| 00:40.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Kodiack (~Colto_000@121-73-86-207.cable.telstraclear.net) |
| 00:41.23 | Mr_Rabies | did you make a nice bechamel sauce for thermal paste |
| 00:49.34 | pompy | jleclanche: which mobo/cpu? |
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| 00:49.57 | jleclanche | pompy: z97 deluxe and i7 4790 |
| 00:50.09 | jleclanche | picked with Gnarfoz and nevcairiel's help |
| 00:50.33 | Gnarfoz | hardware jungle navigators union |
| 00:54.35 | pompy | jleclanche: nice, i just got the i7 4790 and the gigabyte z97 ud5h |
| 00:55.03 | jleclanche | i really feel the difference from my old first-gen i7 |
| 00:55.45 | pompy | i hope i do, im going from an amd phenom II X4 965 |
| 00:55.47 | pompy | heh |
| 00:56.23 | Stanzilla | well done, jerome :3 |
| 00:57.06 | kullervo | 4790? I guess it has higher default clocks than the 4770? |
| 00:57.22 | kullervo | I haven't followed the news ever since buying my own setup |
| 00:58.17 | pompy | kullervo: if you are talking about the 4770k .. http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i7-4790-vs-Intel-Core-i7-4770K |
| 00:58.31 | pompy | 3.6ghz to 3.5ghz |
| 00:59.05 | kullervo | not much a difference |
| 00:59.34 | kullervo | mine runs at 4.4 turbo, good enough |
| 01:06.28 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 01:14.41 | sylvanaar | 6+90. |
| 01:15.11 | znf | =50 |
| 01:18.32 | Amarande | yeah, they seem to be getting rather over-aggressive on the marketing in many a place lately with haswell refresh |
| 01:18.43 | Amarande | you start to hear the turbo clock being referred to as the processor speed |
| 01:19.06 | Amarande | which is only true for all cores if you use something like an ASUS ROG board, and even then the feature tends to have to be turned off due to Haswell's craptastic thermal properties |
| 01:19.28 | Amarande | I'll stick with my Haswell E3 at its proper speeds |
| 01:26.41 | Neffi | jleclanche: why a Z97 but no K CPU? |
| 01:26.59 | jleclanche | I dont know, ask the hardware jungle union |
| 01:28.45 | Neffi | I would've either stuck to an Z87 and a 4770k, or if I had the money, a Z97 and a cheaper CPU, then upgraded to Devil's Canyon. Or just waited altogether |
| 01:29.19 | jleclanche | yeah well talk to Gnarfoz about it |
| 01:29.25 | Neffi | lol |
| 01:30.14 | Gnarfoz | he wanted to buy now |
| 01:30.15 | Neffi | Grats on your new build though. I'm looking forward to when I can put together a good setup like that |
| 01:30.21 | Gnarfoz | why should he buy previous gen chipset |
| 01:30.51 | Gnarfoz | also doesn't want/need to OC, so no reason for Devil's Canyon's most prominent improvement |
| 01:30.58 | Neffi | That's not an unfair statement. A K still makes more sense. The 4790 is just a small clock bump of the same chip |
| 01:31.10 | Gnarfoz | yes it is, and I don't see how a K makes more sense. |
| 01:31.26 | Gnarfoz | also, vt-d, if he should ever need it. |
| 01:31.38 | jleclanche | it makes like zero difference to me, im upgrading from a first gen |
| 01:31.42 | jleclanche | anything is a huge bump |
| 01:31.45 | Neffi | Overclocking. Depends on his needs. If vt-d is more useful than an extra 10-20% more performance, sure |
| 01:32.05 | Gnarfoz | there's no extra 10-20% if you don't OC, which he said he doesn't :| |
| 01:32.23 | Neffi | Fair enough. I didn't know that |
| 01:32.50 | jleclanche | i will have to set up uefi at some point .. |
| 01:33.01 | Neffi | Linux? |
| 01:33.04 | jleclanche | yea |
| 01:33.09 | Gnarfoz | what's there to set up? |
| 01:33.10 | jleclanche | and figure out how to disable secure boot without disabling uefi |
| 01:33.18 | jleclanche | Gnarfoz: im running grub bios |
| 01:33.25 | Gnarfoz | you... replaced your bios? |
| 01:33.27 | kd3|hate`net | unless you've got some kind of broken firmware, it's trivial |
| 01:33.29 | Gnarfoz | on a brand new board? |
| 01:33.32 | jleclanche | i replaced my motherboard |
| 01:33.33 | Neffi | Shouldn't be painful. Just make sure your kernel supports it and install an EFI bootloader |
| 01:33.37 | kd3 | uefi + non-secureboot here |
| 01:33.53 | Gnarfoz | oh you're running in bios compatibility mode |
| 01:33.56 | jleclanche | yeah |
| 01:34.19 | jleclanche | kd3: I still need to set up a new arch key. I tried mine (couple months old) and it wouldnt boot into the kernel |
| 01:34.20 | Gnarfoz | re OC: I'm on a 2600K and I still haven't found a need to OC that... I'm kind of disillusioned now with buying stuff because I might be able to OC it later :D |
| 01:34.31 | Gnarfoz | last time I did that was an Athlon XP 2500+ to 3200+ |
| 01:34.35 | Neffi | What's an arch key? |
| 01:34.41 | jleclanche | arch linux usb stick |
| 01:35.04 | kd3 | oh, arch? I dunno what to say. check the wiki, I guess. it Just Works in fedora |
| 01:35.16 | Neffi | Arch has a good wiki entry for EFI |
| 01:35.21 | jleclanche | I know how to do it |
| 01:35.28 | jleclanche | all Im saying is ill have to set it up :P and cba |
| 01:35.58 | Amarande | heh, I've OC'd exactly three CPUs in my lifetime |
| 01:36.05 | Amarande | two of them back in the socket 7 era |
| 01:36.31 | jleclanche | i find the concept of overclocking as a feature completely stupid |
| 01:36.43 | Amarande | jleclanche: from what I've seen, the only time any issue occurs out of UEFI boot without secure boot enabled is on win8.1 |
| 01:36.48 | jleclanche | OC is supposed to be something of last resort |
| 01:36.57 | Amarande | and that seems to amount solely to the login screen apparently nagging people that they should consider enabling secure boot |
| 01:37.04 | kullervo | "supposed" |
| 01:37.08 | jleclanche | yeah, supposed. |
| 01:37.10 | Neffi | In today's CPUs, it's not. They're fast enough |
| 01:37.12 | jleclanche | you OC when you want to get more shit out of a cheaper CPU |
| 01:37.17 | Amarande | on Intel? yeah, you don't really need to OC |
| 01:37.22 | kullervo | except when they aren't |
| 01:37.24 | Neffi | I see it more as pushing the real potential |
| 01:37.29 | jleclanche | so paying more for better OC? eh |
| 01:37.37 | Amarande | AMD I think actually expects people to overclock |
| 01:37.54 | Amarande | it's why the Vishera and Bulldozer series were without exception sold as unlocked versions |
| 01:38.06 | jleclanche | Neffi: anything that is safe should be possible without a requirement to overclock. anything that is unsafe should/will void warranty |
| 01:38.21 | kd3 | sigh. thanks rng. legendary DH cloak on my wiz |
| 01:38.34 | Amarande | pretty sure that they pretty much assume people will overclock, they could probably actually sell them as being much faster than the stock speeds, they just set the stock speeds low for CYA's sake |
| 01:38.38 | Neffi | jleclanche: As in, the CPUs should come faster stock? |
| 01:38.54 | Amarande | kd3: time to put it in stash and level your DH? :) |
| 01:38.59 | jleclanche | Neffi: potentially. |
| 01:39.23 | jleclanche | theres other ways to sell it |
| 01:39.33 | Neffi | That would require prebuilt manufacturers to equip their machines with better cooling, and something besides the bottom of the barrel PSUs and motherboards |
| 01:39.53 | jleclanche | but the concept of overclocking is very much: "you take a risk, void your warranty and 'unlock better performance'" |
| 01:40.04 | jleclanche | IF it's safe, it should come like this out of the box |
| 01:40.15 | jleclanche | if it's unsafe, you take a risk and void your warranty. its anti-user in either case |
| 01:40.43 | Neffi | meh |
| 01:40.56 | kullervo | jleclanche: but you're not taking into account tolerances |
| 01:41.18 | kullervo | the manufacturer can't clock every processor to the maximum stable since they're all slightly different |
| 01:41.28 | Neffi | Well kullervo they could get past that by binning, and selling the more tolerant CPUs with higher stock clocks |
| 01:41.45 | kullervo | Neffi: they uh.. they do that already |
| 01:42.25 | Neffi | I'm aware. They have the infrastructure in place to do away with the whole "overclocking as a feature" and just sell the better binned chips at a higher premium |
| 01:42.46 | kullervo | but won't you rather have cheaper processor with OC option? |
| 01:42.57 | Neffi | But who cares? Exactly ^ |
| 01:43.20 | Neffi | I'd rather accept that what I'm doing is not covered by warranty, than have it sold to me at a higher profit margin with warranty |
| 01:43.44 | Neffi | And it opens up the market to allow companies like Asus to cater to enthusiasts with crazy expensive motherboards |
| 01:43.48 | Amarande | kullervo: not with non-extreme edition i7 anymore |
| 01:43.54 | Amarande | there's multiple bins of i3 and i5, and of i7 extreme edition |
| 01:44.03 | *** join/#wowuidev jleclanche (~adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 01:44.10 | Amarande | but since ivy came out, i7 has always come solely in the Seven Seventy flavours with no bin spectrum |
| 01:44.38 | Amarande | gone are the days of Nehalem when there were about forty billion i7's for those of any stripe |
| 01:45.13 | kullervo | tbh the actually crazy expensive ones have all sorts of stupid features that inflate the price |
| 01:45.21 | jleclanche | fuck, this isnt good. my graphics card keeps crashing since two days ago. i thought it was power/mobo related but it keeps doing that since i switched to the new one |
| 01:45.25 | kullervo | internet-enabled overclocking and remote controls |
| 01:45.29 | jleclanche | i dont think its overheating.. its at 30 degrees after reboot |
| 01:45.51 | Neffi | I'm aware. I can't believe people actually buy the most expensive motherboards out there, which don't overclock any better than the solid mid-range offerings |
| 01:45.56 | kullervo | jleclanche: driver issue? |
| 01:46.06 | kullervo | Neffi: I know a guy who did |
| 01:46.10 | jleclanche | kullervo: I doubt it, it did that on windows |
| 01:46.10 | Amarande | kullervo: internet-enabled overclocking? |
| 01:46.19 | Amarande | huh. guess I don't really know much at all about the 960X series |
| 01:46.24 | kullervo | jleclanche: oh. Hm. Poor physical installation? |
| 01:46.34 | jleclanche | i just reinstalled it with the new mobo |
| 01:46.37 | Amarande | I thought the big thing about the higher end LGA2011 i7's was that they're the only non-Xeons with six cores |
| 01:46.41 | kullervo | oh, new mobo old gpu |
| 01:46.46 | jleclanche | new mobo new gpu |
| 01:46.53 | jleclanche | ive been running that gpu for a week |
| 01:46.56 | kullervo | welp |
| 01:47.04 | Amarande | heh, I bought an ASUS ROG board and then used it with a Xeon E3, which can't even *be* overclocked |
| 01:47.09 | jleclanche | on two different PSUs, two different mobos, two different OSes; it crashes the same way |
| 01:47.17 | jleclanche | http://dpaste.com/26MKGJG/ |
| 01:47.18 | Amarande | mind you, it can be put to full on turbo, but without an aftermarket cooler that's probably only usable in the winter |
| 01:47.32 | Amarande | even now, in later spring, if I put it to full-on-turbo, running the CPU full load will bring it up to over 90C |
| 01:47.50 | Amarande | which means if ambient goes up another 10C, as it probably will this summer, presumably it would then go over TJ.max |
| 01:48.34 | Amarande | jleclanche, tell your GPU to stop getting drunk and riding on top of the bus already :) |
| 01:48.38 | Neffi | jleclanche: "GPU at 0000:01:00.0 has fallen off the bus." lol wtf |
| 01:48.59 | jleclanche | May 26 02:41:17 azura kernel: NVRM: Xid (0000:01:00): 48, An uncorrectable double bit error (DBE) has been detected on GPU (02 00 00). |
| 01:49.02 | kullervo | hahaha |
| 01:49.07 | kd3 | is it still under warranty? I'd RMA that |
| 01:49.30 | jleclanche | I have relatively poor cooling in my case currently, so it *could* be that. but this doesnt look like it |
| 01:49.45 | kullervo | some *other* part of the gpu may get hot |
| 01:49.49 | Neffi | Keep an eye on the temps. I'd expect it to just throttle |
| 01:50.08 | jleclanche | nvidia-settings report 30-40 degrees at peak |
| 01:50.24 | jleclanche | this is the latest crash: http://dpaste.com/195M0HZ/ (bottom to top) |
| 01:51.02 | jleclanche | http://docs.nvidia.com/deploy/dynamic-page-retirement/index.html |
| 01:52.20 | Neffi | jleclanche: http://docs.nvidia.com/deploy/dynamic-page-retirement/index.html |
| 01:52.25 | Neffi | wow, I'm late |
| 01:52.29 | jleclanche | what is there an echo in here |
| 01:52.34 | Neffi | So yeah, it's probably bad VRAM. RMA it |
| 01:52.52 | jleclanche | fuck sake |
| 02:02.50 | jleclanche | Alright, RMA'd. |
| 02:04.06 | jleclanche | Neffi: I'm chatting to amazon and they're offering me an upgrade because the 780 Ti is under investigation. What's better than that model? |
| 02:05.03 | kullervo | I should upgrade to dual 780 ti just for lulz |
| 02:05.15 | kullervo | .. I have a single 780 right now |
| 02:05.49 | kullervo | I could probably hook them both to a water cooling setup that might even fit inside my case since it's huge |
| 02:06.03 | jleclanche | I dont have the psu for that anyway |
| 02:06.31 | kullervo | well the PSU wouldn't be a huge big purchase compared to dual 780 Tis |
| 02:07.51 | jleclanche | kullervo: is the titan better than the 780ti? |
| 02:07.57 | jleclanche | I believe it is but meh |
| 02:07.58 | kullervo | no |
| 02:08.11 | kullervo | the Ti uses the whateverthefuck new tech |
| 02:08.42 | kullervo | so it consumes so little power the reference version gets its power from the PCI |
| 02:08.48 | jleclanche | mmh |
| 02:09.28 | jleclanche | this is the problem when you buy first class. you cant get upgraded to first class. |
| 02:10.04 | kullervo | 780 when overclocked even a bit beats a titan |
| 02:12.16 | Amarande | wait, the 780 Ti no longer needs a six- or eight-pin auxiliary? |
| 02:12.39 | Amarande | wow, the 770 meanwhile requires a double dose of PCI-E power cablage |
| 02:13.12 | jleclanche | Amarande: the 780 ti needs two eight pins. |
| 02:13.30 | kullervo | it's actually aftermarket decision isn't it? |
| 02:13.32 | jleclanche | It runs fine with 8+6 but throttled from what I could see |
| 02:14.31 | Amarande | and the 780 Ti is "under investigation"? wassat? |
| 02:15.00 | kullervo | or am I thinking of another GPU |
| 02:16.00 | kullervo | must be the 790 |
| 02:16.06 | jleclanche | Amarande: someone complained the product wasn't as described on amazon, so now its under investigation |
| 02:16.18 | jleclanche | probably someone complaining they got it in black instead of dark blue or something. |
| 02:16.58 | Amarande | bah |
| 02:17.32 | Amarande | probably the same kind of asshats that have ruined ebay for anything of value unless you're a pro seller that constantly has your finger on the fraud news |
| 02:17.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Ressy (~Ressy@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ARL/Ressy) |
| 02:18.36 | Amarande | haven't been burned myself, but I hear so many scam stories there based on whining about "not as described" that I feel like if I go to put anything of value there now, I should probably follow it up by placing a call to the gambling problem helpline :P |
| 02:21.51 | Neffi | GoT tonight? |
| 02:22.00 | kd3 | nope |
| 02:22.11 | kd3 | my feed lit up with "yay, a quiet night on twitter for a change" |
| 02:22.50 | Neffi | What a time to take a break >_> |
| 02:23.50 | Amarande | wonder what HBO is doing with this weekend anyway |
| 02:23.52 | Wobin | sounds like they timed it well =P |
| 02:23.54 | Amarande | there some kind of awards show this week? |
| 02:39.05 | Shirik | "You are a winners of $2,000.000.00 USD" |
| 02:39.07 | Shirik | I AM A WINNERS |
| 02:39.48 | jleclanche | I am an actual winners |
| 02:39.56 | jleclanche | talked amazon into a £50 compensation. |
| 02:40.08 | jleclanche | which in USD is probably something like that number, Shirik |
| 02:41.04 | Neffi | :( why so mean jleclanche? |
| 02:41.43 | jleclanche | Neffi: They're letting me keep the broken card. |
| 02:42.03 | kullervo | jleclanche: find out if you can fix it and sell it locally |
| 02:42.05 | jleclanche | I wonder if I could ask them for a yacht too. |
| 02:42.06 | kd3 | are they shipping you another one? or just, here's 50 pounds, go away |
| 02:42.26 | jleclanche | kd3: they are shipping me a replacement card, letting me keep the broken one, and giving me a £50 compensation voucher. |
| 02:42.41 | Stanzilla | nice win |
| 02:43.39 | jleclanche | I would say so ... |
| 02:43.56 | Shirik | did anyone do the amazon option for tax refund this year? |
| 02:43.59 | Shirik | I did, it was pretty nice |
| 02:44.01 | jleclanche | When you consider the card only crashes under heavy load, definitely in fact |
| 02:44.07 | jleclanche | Shirik: the what? |
| 02:44.29 | Shirik | turbotax did this deal where you could have your tax refund disbursed into an amazon gift card |
| 02:44.33 | kd3 | if you're getting a refund, you're doing it wrong |
| 02:44.34 | Shirik | and if you did, they would give you an extra 10% |
| 02:44.34 | Gnarfoz | kullervo: you must be thinking of the 750ti, which is a really low end card |
| 02:44.44 | Shirik | kd3: I actually expected that I would owe money |
| 02:44.46 | kullervo | Gnarfoz: no I'm thinking of the unreleased one |
| 02:44.53 | Shirik | I'm not really sure how I pulled it off |
| 02:45.02 | Gnarfoz | there is unlikely to be a high-end card that runs with just 75 W. :P |
| 02:45.18 | Shirik | I'm getting to the point where none of my deductions are valid anymore |
| 02:45.24 | Shirik | so it's really hard to estimate how much I owe |
| 02:45.27 | Gnarfoz | and I've not seen any details about 800 series that would make me think otherwise :D |
| 02:45.50 | kullervo | I forget the details, chatted about this with someone at work |
| 02:45.51 | jleclanche | Shirik: its funny how it works best for everyone. amazon gets the customers (including some that will never use the voucher), customers get the 10% markup, and turbotax probably gets a 5% markup on top of it |
| 02:46.06 | Gnarfoz | you were probably both wrong |
| 02:46.27 | Shirik | jleclanche: marketing at its finest :) |
| 02:46.37 | Gnarfoz | the 750ti uses Maxwell and does indeed not require external power, but that's only partly because it's Maxwell - the other part is that it's a low-end card ^^ |
| 02:46.37 | kullervo | might be |
| 02:46.42 | jleclanche | Shirik: literally, creating money out of thin air. |
| 02:47.07 | Shirik | properly handled marketing isn't generating business, it's taking business from competitors, imo |
| 02:47.57 | kullervo | it's both |
| 02:47.58 | Gnarfoz | kd3: how does the US tax system work, that getting a tax refund is bad? |
| 02:48.02 | jleclanche | Well this is an interesting way to handle it. seeing as part of the markup is eaten by people who will never use the voucher, and the rest is eaten by people who will spend it on items with high returns for amazon |
| 02:48.25 | Shirik | Gnarfoz: there is no interest on the withholding that you pay |
| 02:48.37 | Shirik | therefore anything they withhold in excess of whati s necessary is effectively lost income |
| 02:48.55 | Gnarfoz | how could you affect that, though? |
| 02:49.05 | Gnarfoz | do you actually pay your taxes manually? |
| 02:49.14 | Shirik | you decide how much to have withheld... sorta |
| 02:49.19 | Gnarfoz | ugh |
| 02:49.23 | Shirik | there's a standard form to adjust how to withhold taxes |
| 02:49.26 | Gnarfoz | ok, I see how that would work then |
| 02:49.34 | Shirik | it does a decent job estimating, but everyone's different obviously |
| 02:50.00 | Shirik | basically everyone fills this out when they get a job http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw4.pdf |
| 02:50.04 | jleclanche | i don't really understand how income taxes aren't the employer's burden, like in every sane country |
| 02:50.13 | kd3 | thank turbotax |
| 02:50.18 | Gnarfoz | they are here \o/ |
| 02:50.25 | Shirik | jleclanche: well theoretically they are |
| 02:50.47 | Shirik | but if you want to actually pay less, you have to take the time to customize it to you |
| 02:50.57 | Shirik | you could just fill out the 1040EZ, matching exactly what your employer said, and be done with it |
| 02:51.01 | Shirik | but it will probably be bad for you |
| 02:51.22 | jleclanche | I hope you realize this is the opposite of "the employer's burden" |
| 02:51.38 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 02:51.56 | kullervo | you'd be best off paying too little taxes and investing it even at a minuscule profit |
| 02:51.57 | Shirik | you want your employer to know all your financial details? |
| 02:52.11 | kullervo | instead of paying too much taxes and getting refunds, thus giving the state a free loan |
| 02:53.44 | Shirik | anyway |
| 02:53.44 | jleclanche | Shirik: On income taxes, yes? Just like value added taxes get eaten by sellers (well, not that you'd see a difference in the US, seeing that everybody likes making people do math to figure out how much they're paying at checkout) |
| 02:54.01 | Shirik | hey |
| 02:54.04 | Shirik | I don't do math at checkout |
| 02:54.04 | jleclanche | hi |
| 02:54.07 | Amarande | jleclanche: heh, I wonder if there's starting to become a booming interest in buying british crown bonds |
| 02:54.10 | Shirik | I live in a state with 0% sales tax :D |
| 02:54.18 | Amarande | given that both the USD and Euro seem to have such shaky economies underpinning them |
| 02:54.26 | kullervo | damn you |
| 02:54.39 | Shirik | I also bought my car here |
| 02:54.43 | Amarande | As an American, I laughed at that one article in the Guardian ... where they were going on about the Cyprus/Euro crisis |
| 02:54.43 | jleclanche | Amarande: the Uk isnt in such a great position either |
| 02:54.53 | Neffi | The math ain't that hard. Here, you add 9% and you're ~.1% over |
| 02:55.02 | Amarande | and talking about how investors were pulling money out of the Euro and into "safe havens like the US dollar" |
| 02:55.07 | kullervo | I pay 14% tax for food |
| 02:55.09 | Shirik | which literally means I saved thousands on my car |
| 02:55.16 | kullervo | 24% for beer |
| 02:55.16 | Amarande | US dollar ... safe haven ... WTF, our economy's at least as bad as EU :P |
| 02:55.19 | jleclanche | Neffi: I dunno how it works in the US, but in europe theres varying amounts of taxes depending on what you buy |
| 02:55.19 | Neffi | kullervo: Food tax is higher? ugh |
| 02:55.29 | Shirik | Amarande: yeah, but at least we can print more money! |
| 02:55.47 | Amarande | Shirik: heh, not to mention the fact that everyone hates us but is reliant on our dollar |
| 02:55.51 | Gnarfoz | Neffi: he said beer is higher, how'd you get "food is higher" from that? |
| 02:55.57 | jleclanche | Neffi: in france, some foods are 2-4% or something, some are 14%, some are 21%. most items are 21%. some are 27%. |
| 02:56.03 | Neffi | jleclanche: Here it's up to the states, so I dunno. There's a flat 8.875% sales tax distributed between state and city, and some items don't get taxed, and some get an additional tax besides. Like some 3-400% for cigarettes |
| 02:56.06 | Amarande | probably the only reason people side with our war interests to shore up our megaco's, half the world hates the USA, but they sure love that USD |
| 02:56.19 | jleclanche | Neffi: thankfully, we don't do math because HEY, we show you how much you fucking pay. |
| 02:56.21 | Neffi | Gnarfoz: "I pay 14% for food" |
| 02:56.28 | Gnarfoz | yes |
| 02:56.34 | Gnarfoz | "24% for beer" |
| 02:56.52 | Gnarfoz | he never mentioned if food is higher than <something else> |
| 02:56.54 | Gnarfoz | :| |
| 02:56.54 | Neffi | I typed that before I saw the other part, so I figured that statement alone was the emphasis, hence the 14% was the irregularity |
| 02:57.03 | Amarande | Neffi: NYC? |
| 02:57.05 | Gnarfoz | so you agree then, prices should be advertised including tax? |
| 02:57.06 | Neffi | yeah |
| 02:57.06 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 02:57.17 | Amarande | heh, I'm up in Connecticut |
| 02:57.32 | Neffi | I hear a lot of rich and smart people live there |
| 02:57.35 | Gnarfoz | Stanzilla: nn |
| 02:57.36 | Amarande | here it's 6.35% for all but a very few things (1% for computer and data processing services, and I think hotels and certain designated luxury items are higher as well) |
| 02:57.38 | Neffi | I guess that's a myth ;P |
| 02:57.55 | Amarande | well let's see ... smart, check. rich, nope. :( |
| 02:58.22 | Amarande | actually it seems like the rich part is mostly concentrated in the southwestern corner near Greenwich and the like |
| 02:59.03 | Amarande | the rest of CT has been kinda struggling ... there was the one year where almost every state's economy contracted and then the next almost everyone recovered - but CT was the only state to *continue to contract* that year |
| 02:59.18 | kullervo | gasoline has over 75% tax I think |
| 02:59.39 | kullervo | I wouldn't know I can't afford to even own a car |
| 02:59.43 | Amarande | and sadly, this state's efforts to preserve itself have probably set it up as a possible eventual freedom killer for the rest of you in a way :( |
| 03:00.06 | Amarande | pretty much our biggest industries anymore seem to be insurance and pharmaceuticals *sigh* |
| 03:00.11 | jleclanche | man, 60 fps on max graphics in Wine. |
| 03:00.18 | jleclanche | (in wow) |
| 03:00.23 | kullervo | where |
| 03:00.28 | Amarande | and guess who's the one industry even MORE gung ho about murdering Internet freedom in the name of intellectual property protection than even Hollywood? Yup, Pharma! |
| 03:00.29 | jleclanche | I think its the first time in 10 years ive had that |
| 03:00.43 | kullervo | and at what resolution, and are they max graphics or game menu max graphics |
| 03:00.53 | jleclanche | 1680 and both |
| 03:00.55 | Amarande | (and on top of that our Democrats are doubtless buddy buddy with Chris Dodd, and thus by extension WITH Hollywood :|) |
| 03:01.23 | kullervo | since you can /set them higher than the menu sliders allow.. |
| 03:01.25 | Amarande | kullervo: there are graphics settings in wow higher than the menu lets you set? |
| 03:01.31 | jleclanche | oh uh |
| 03:01.32 | Amarande | huh. didn't know that. |
| 03:01.39 | Neffi | kullervo: Can you still? They capped view distance to the slider I think |
| 03:01.45 | jleclanche | yea i thought they capped things |
| 03:01.56 | Amarande | Neffi: well view distance is probably a special case |
| 03:02.00 | Neffi | Used to have a crazy high limit though. My friend took a screenshot where practically half the continent was visible |
| 03:02.13 | kullervo | pretty sure the slider max is a bit below |
| 03:02.14 | jleclanche | thats still possible with some clever hacking |
| 03:02.15 | Amarande | because it actually can grant advantages and particularly strain the server, I'm sure |
| 03:02.19 | Gnarfoz | "things" does not mean "everything" =] |
| 03:02.32 | jleclanche | CAP ALL THE THINGS |
| 03:02.47 | Amarande | although OTOH I'm not sure *how* the server actually determines what objects the client needs to care about |
| 03:02.48 | Neffi | Amarande: No strain on the server. They imposed a limit on actor visibility, so it's always a constant regardless of settings |
| 03:02.59 | jleclanche | Amarande: view distance has nothing to do with entity distance |
| 03:03.04 | Neffi | So increasing your view distance doesnt ask the server to query further units |
| 03:03.11 | Amarande | it seems to be an exceedingly long LoS that affects entity distance |
| 03:03.11 | kullervo | Firefall has a stupid high view distance, literally all across the continent at max detail |
| 03:03.26 | Amarande | given that you could be at the argent tournament grounds and still get a noticeable lag by facing Dalaran |
| 03:03.30 | jleclanche | Amarande: the server sends entities given a range around where your character currently is. if you desync you will notice this. |
| 03:03.31 | Gnarfoz | if the engine can handle that, why not |
| 03:03.41 | Amarande | all that had to be was that the floating rock was visible, even if it was far in the distance, and Dalalag still got you |
| 03:03.54 | jleclanche | Amarande: that kinda makes sense |
| 03:04.08 | Amarande | jleclanche: *except* that Dalalag was caused by trying to render so many player graphics at once |
| 03:04.13 | jleclanche | no. |
| 03:04.22 | Amarande | and if you're all the way up by say Argent Tournament, the players are surely too far from you to register on entity visibility, no? |
| 03:04.39 | kullervo | http://kullervo.dy.fi/gallery/photos/Screenshots/Firefall/CapnRot~Nov-5-2013~New%20Eden~1~p1.jpg |
| 03:04.42 | jleclanche | it has nothing to do with that, even if the players spawned there they wouldnt be rendered |
| 03:04.52 | jleclanche | dalaran is one bigass bunch of WMOs and that is what is lowering your fps |
| 03:04.54 | Amarande | it doesn't seem like the rock itself was especially straining, given that you don't get Dalalag anymore now that the place is a ghost town |
| 03:05.14 | Amarande | jleclanche: then how did the departure of most players from the place seem to alleviate most of it? |
| 03:05.33 | jleclanche | Amarande: because you have two different sources |
| 03:05.40 | Amarande | unless the answer really lay in the fact that our hardware has improved significantly since Wrath |
| 03:05.55 | Kesava | oh amarande |
| 03:05.58 | Neffi | Amarande: Optimizations of the engine over time? Better handling of WMOs? |
| 03:06.01 | jleclanche | Amarande: from AT grounds, you look at dalaran, the WMO strains you because you're not *just* looking at dalaran itself, you're looking at *all* of dalaran and everything from here to there |
| 03:06.08 | jleclanche | Amarande: from dalaran you're looking at partial WMOs |
| 03:06.34 | Amarande | I really didn't play much in early Cata and I'm not sure how much of Dalaran I ever even saw then ... then the next time I visited was during very late Cata when leveling a mage when I had an FX-6300 |
| 03:06.43 | Neffi | kullervo: what game is that? |
| 03:06.45 | Amarande | on the prior visit, I had still a 939 |
| 03:06.49 | jleclanche | its a fucking joke that it runs this way but dalaran isnt the only place you can notice it. though ive never noticed it there i am sure this is the same issue |
| 03:07.06 | kullervo | Firefall.. Though I play at higher resolution than that now so it only runs at 70 fps |
| 03:07.17 | Neffi | 'only' |
| 03:07.18 | Amarande | jleclanche: might be a difficult thing to solve in render engines in general when it comes to huge numbers of objects |
| 03:07.37 | Amarande | hell, consider say nuts.wad in Doom 2, where most of the objects aren't even 3D, they're 2D sprites |
| 03:07.38 | jleclanche | Amarande: dalaran wmos shouldnt render like this from so far away. |
| 03:07.45 | Neffi | kullervo: Good game? I watched a video of it and found it worth checing out, then forgot about it |
| 03:07.49 | Amarande | and it still bogs down to absolute hell except on the most recent of hardware :) |
| 03:08.00 | kullervo | it's still in beta, has more and more features |
| 03:08.14 | Amarande | kullervo, can your monitor even render more than 60? |
| 03:09.01 | kullervo | didn't feel like a full game the last I tried since things just were there, there wasn't really anything to connect things |
| 03:09.37 | jleclanche | urgh, i need a hairdryer. my back hurts :/ |
| 03:09.48 | Kesava | ... |
| 03:09.50 | kullervo | but it's been half a year so no doubt it's more feature complete now |
| 03:09.59 | kullervo | jleclanche: how are those two related? |
| 03:10.11 | jleclanche | I gave my chair a shower |
| 03:10.41 | kullervo | and this makes your back hurt how o.O |
| 03:11.45 | jleclanche | well Im sitting on a shitty chair while it dries |
| 03:14.35 | Amarande | jleclanche: again seems to be a general thing with game render engines (even some of the more extreme Doom levels, again, to use that as an example, that are actually built as serious things and not jokewads like Nuts, still suffer from lag due to too many objects to worry about in rendering ... and we're talking Doom. In 2014.) |
| 03:15.02 | jleclanche | these are completely different issues |
| 03:37.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~Funkeh`@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
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| 04:07.55 | airtonix | nothing wrong with watchdogs |
| 04:12.12 | Mr_Rabies | this is the best bug ever https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abhnXQlvo1I |
| 04:46.47 | karl_w_w | ah customer support lines. if i didnt like classical music im sure i'd be infuriated |
| 04:48.58 | Amarande | karl_w_w: and you've got unlimited minutes I hope? |
| 04:49.10 | karl_w_w | essentially |
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| 04:56.17 | Amarande | I still remember getting screwed out of 40 bucks thanks to customer "support" once :P |
| 04:56.47 | Amarande | cable outage, ended up having to call on my cell phone and there was an insanely long hold time that night |
| 04:57.18 | Amarande | and of course that was the last month I was on limited minutes, using up what I had before making the switch to unlimited |
| 04:57.32 | Amarande | (since your rollover minutes vanish into the ether permanently the moment you activate unlimited with AT&T) |
| 04:57.47 | Amarande | ... and I get to find out over minutes on AT&T are 45 cents each :P |
| 05:02.14 | Amarande | (here in the States, it's not uncommon, as in my case, for the landline phone service to be through the cable company now ... so if the cable goes out altogether, you're stuck using your mobile to get support) |
| 05:05.38 | karl_w_w | day 2 on hold. i can now recite beethoven's third using only the sound of farts. maybe everybody at the call centre has been overcome by the zombie apocalypse. hope drains away. |
| 05:09.20 | karl_w_w | day 5 on hold. i have found myself slipping into some kind of sleep trance, where hellish dreams of a battle between beethoven and dvorjak is fought with piano keys as soldiers. when i wake, the battle continues to rage. |
| 05:11.20 | Wobin | The one thing I like about my ISP's tech support is that they offer callback service |
| 05:11.27 | Amarande | karl: also, may I suggest that you never fly Qantas? :) |
| 05:11.31 | Wobin | s/The// |
| 05:13.37 | Amarande | apparently, Qantas once left one guy on hold for 15 hours (and he never got through, that's just when he gave up) |
| 05:14.19 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (~RyanNL@adsl-74-242-165-58.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 05:14.29 | karl_w_w | day 12 on hold. i no longer remember why i am calling, or my own name. what is a customer? how does one support them? i wait now, knowing not what i hope to find. perhaps the warm embrace of a human voice, perhaps simply some confirmation that i exist, and am not just a part of the phone system itself. |
| 05:15.14 | airtonix | jleclanche: these lighttable behaviours are awesome |
| 05:15.58 | Amarande | apparently, you can't even trust Soon when you're on the phone, it sounds like |
| 05:16.12 | Amarande | throughout the torturous wait, he kept being told that someone would be with him "as soon as possible" |
| 05:16.26 | Amarande | heh. for us, that would probably send red flags and wailing klaxons in our heads |
| 05:16.32 | Amarande | since we all know what "soon" means :) |
| 05:18.14 | karl_w_w | day 29 on hold. i think somebody answered, only to transfer me to another department and put me back on hold. but that may have just been a tchaikovsky-fuelled hallucination. |
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| 05:21.25 | karl_w_w | im impressed i spelled tchaikovsky correctly |
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| 05:28.19 | jleclanche | airtonix: yeah, its really powerful. it does have massive performance issues but apparently a lot of them are solved in git already |
| 05:28.46 | airtonix | jleclanche: anyway to make keymap behaviours take effect on conditions? |
| 05:29.01 | jleclanche | airtonix: for example? |
| 05:29.19 | airtonix | ctrl-x : cut line when nothing selected, otherwise cut selection |
| 05:29.27 | Wobin | karl_w_w: but not Dvorak? (or more accurately, Dvořák) |
| 05:30.03 | jleclanche | airtonix: you'd have to script something and map that script |
| 05:30.12 | jleclanche | airtonix: with that said though, dd in vim mode cuts the line :P |
| 05:30.38 | airtonix | well i have a cut line keymap. but i'd like it the same as cut selection |
| 05:30.44 | airtonix | like i have in sublimetext |
| 05:30.58 | jleclanche | i dont know, i would ask in #lighttable but the channel is dead |
| 05:31.14 | airtonix | "pmeta-k" [:editor.select-line :editor.cut] |
| 05:31.17 | jleclanche | actually theres some activity in it lately |
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| 05:46.33 | Neffi | grrm is a god-damned madman |
| 05:59.01 | Arrowmaster | wtf amazon, i placed an order on the 19th and it still hasnt shipped |
| 06:00.48 | Fisker | Yes yeeeeees |
| 06:02.27 | Wobin | jleclanche: hm, LightTable might be a little too specialised atm for my requirements |
| 06:02.42 | jleclanche | Wobin: what are your requirements? |
| 06:02.56 | Wobin | lua based =) |
| 06:03.22 | jleclanche | eh |
| 06:03.25 | jleclanche | clojurescript is fine :p |
| 06:03.38 | jleclanche | its not that much different |
| 06:03.40 | Wobin | not so much for addons, probably |
| 06:03.57 | Wobin | and by based, I don't really mean 'built in' |
| 06:04.13 | Wobin | just has all the appropriate highlighting etc |
| 06:04.22 | jleclanche | right |
| 06:04.23 | Wobin | LightTable has a lot of funky gimmicks |
| 06:04.26 | jleclanche | theres no lua plugin yet i think. sec |
| 06:04.27 | Wobin | but nothing I can use |
| 06:04.45 | jleclanche | yeah no lua plugin |
| 06:04.46 | Xuerian | sublime and luadev have worked well for me |
| 06:04.49 | jleclanche | you should write one =) |
| 06:05.03 | Wobin | jleclanche: Is there a plugin api? |
| 06:05.03 | Xuerian | Or are we not starting a editor bonfire? |
| 06:05.08 | Wobin | The docs implied not |
| 06:05.13 | jleclanche | Wobin: extensive plugin api |
| 06:05.34 | jleclanche | Wobin: all in clojurescript; lighttable is html/js based basically |
| 06:05.53 | Wobin | hm |
| 06:05.56 | jleclanche | https://github.com/lighttable |
| 06:06.01 | Wobin | I'd have to learn clojurescript =P |
| 06:06.04 | jleclanche | theres a few languages already in there for inspiration |
| 06:06.27 | jleclanche | nah |
| 06:06.36 | jleclanche | https://github.com/LightTable/Javascript |
| 06:06.38 | jleclanche | base yourself on that |
| 06:06.45 | jleclanche | and integrate codemirror lua |
| 06:07.32 | Wobin | oh hm |
| 06:08.13 | karl_w_w | control warrior might actually be the most OP deck right now |
| 06:08.34 | jleclanche | karl_w_w: not OP, simply the most powerful |
| 06:08.40 | jleclanche | karl_w_w: miracle rogue is OP but retarded |
| 06:09.01 | jleclanche | control warrior is the most solid imo. |
| 06:09.29 | karl_w_w | only shaman can beat my control warrior |
| 06:15.16 | airtonix | dribbles on karl_w_w |
| 06:16.44 | karl_w_w | so hot |
| 06:25.21 | Wobin | jleclanche: hm, anywhere to get the basic structure of what each file in the plugin does? |
| 06:25.29 | jleclanche | Wobin: no idea, sorry |
| 06:35.08 | airtonix | lifts hist skirt |
| 06:46.36 | Thunder_Child | hist? |
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| 06:49.57 | airtonix | oh so you're interested? |
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| 07:11.57 | Wobin | jleclanche: hm, Not enough information as to the various bits and pieces of the plugin, nor enough clojure knowledge to guess for me to make much of a successful stab at this |
| 07:14.24 | jleclanche | Wobin: you should ping the ML |
| 07:15.41 | Wobin | eh, not knowing clojurescript at all, I'm not exactly qualified to be asking for stuff they're working to release anyway =P |
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| 07:25.30 | jleclanche | Wobin: clojure is fun though |
| 07:25.34 | jleclanche | would be a good opportunity :) |
| 07:25.59 | Wobin | Maybe if I get more time =P |
| 07:26.27 | mikma | https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/vocore-a-coin-sized-linux-computer-with-wifi#home |
| 07:30.24 | Trela | mikma: Interesting. |
| 07:52.21 | ccox | http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2014/05/23/daddy-daddy-look-i-caught-some-fireflies-comic/ |
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| 08:30.41 | airtonix | got a client that makes new repos for different versions of the same project instead of using git |
| 08:30.45 | airtonix | wut-face |
| 08:33.40 | Workfoz | different versions? |
| 08:35.26 | mikma | http://www.break.com/video/raw-video-the-president-takes-a-surprise-walk-2613171 |
| 08:35.30 | airtonix | something you normally use branches for |
| 08:35.53 | bluspacecow | why-face |
| 08:36.17 | airtonix | because folders are versions too right? |
| 08:36.37 | airtonix | also apiary is great |
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| 12:19.20 | Maldivia | jleclanche: http://imgur.com/gallery/031Q2Tw |
| 12:29.41 | bluspacecow | lol Maldivia |
| 12:30.00 | bluspacecow | quite a feat considering the actor that player the first dcotro is dead aint he |
| 12:33.07 | plaw | first three actors |
| 12:33.48 | plaw | and.. that one from the movies too... who did star wars... |
| 12:34.00 | plaw | that everyone forgets about |
| 12:34.01 | nevcairiel | bluspacecow: so you take a picture and morph it? who needs alive actors for that |
| 12:54.08 | zenzio | so is the doctor's name actually [Something] Who? |
| 12:55.48 | Torhal | zenzio: It's The Doctor |
| 12:57.03 | zenzio | so where does "Who" come from? |
| 12:57.23 | zenzio | is it actually supposed to be like a question? |
| 12:57.51 | bluspacecow | its a running joke |
| 12:58.07 | bluspacecow | like the "its bigger on the inside" thing |
| 12:58.25 | airtonix | is that what you tell all the boys? |
| 12:58.55 | bluspacecow | indeed. |
| 12:59.03 | bluspacecow | most astute of you |
| 12:59.24 | airtonix | umadcow? |
| 12:59.42 | bluspacecow | *nibbles on airtonix* |
| 12:59.49 | bluspacecow | yep |
| 12:59.51 | bluspacecow | so mad cow |
| 13:00.30 | bluspacecow | and hungry cow |
| 13:00.37 | bluspacecow | *noms on airtonix moah* |
| 13:10.05 | Torhal | zenzio: When he says "I'm The Doctor," the first thought is "Doctor who?" |
| 13:10.07 | plaw | there's an argument proposed by some that The Doctor's name is either unpronouncable, or part inaudible, to humans |
| 13:10.19 | plaw | hence the alias |
| 13:10.26 | Torhal | plaw: Names hold power, as well, is another theory. |
| 13:10.37 | zenzio | or he's just a smartass, and it really is "Who" |
| 13:10.51 | Torhal | Nope. |
| 13:14.06 | zenzio | "Many compilers come with a /O obfuscation switch. Some even have multiple levels of obfuscation, up to /O3 ;)" |
| 13:19.29 | Torhal | zenzio: Where do you find these insane quotes? |
| 13:19.30 | airtonix | bluspacecow: i got another phrase for you |
| 13:19.45 | airtonix | the dark knight "rises" |
| 13:19.53 | zenzio | Torhal: stackoverflow.com or programmers.stackexchange.com |
| 13:19.54 | bluspacecow | oh baby |
| 13:20.16 | zenzio | Torhal: the quote above was a comment to someone asking if he should obfuscate his C++ code |
| 13:20.18 | Torhal | zenzio: Ah. So, basically, people pretending that they know what the fuck they're talking about. Or trolls. |
| 13:20.37 | zenzio | or, in other words, like every site on the net =) |
| 13:20.43 | Torhal | Heh. |
| 13:22.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Ressy (~resa1983@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ARL/Ressy) |
| 13:38.50 | nevcairiel | thats actually a kidna funny troll |
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| 16:27.15 | Arrowmaster | damn this cheapass laptop, i upgraded it from 4gb to 8gb of ram and its not dual channel |
| 16:27.55 | Arrowmaster | good thing i didnt drop the money on 16gb |
| 16:37.33 | Amarande | wow, no dual channel support? SODIMMs are identical and all? |
| 16:38.52 | Arrowmaster | yeah identically model numbers |
| 16:39.15 | Arrowmaster | it only had a single 4gb stick before |
| 16:39.26 | Arrowmaster | now it has two identical 4gb sticks |
| 16:39.36 | Arrowmaster | i removed the original |
| 16:39.49 | Amarande | huh |
| 16:39.51 | Amarande | lemme guess, it's an acer |
| 16:46.56 | Arrowmaster | toshiba |
| 16:49.11 | Amarande | huh, that's odd |
| 16:49.18 | Amarande | usually toshiba laptops are good stuff |
| 16:49.25 | Arrowmaster | it was a $399 or so toshiba |
| 16:49.37 | Amarande | unlike, say, HP, which is Horror Packaged |
| 16:49.52 | Arrowmaster | L855-S5309 |
| 16:49.58 | Amarande | (my sister had an HP a while back. I've lost count of how many times it had to go back to Best Buy for repairs :|) |
| 16:50.03 | Arrowmaster | i took the ram out of an hp elitebook |
| 16:50.23 | Amarande | and we're talking, this is her laptop she takes to college with her, she babied the freaking thing and the HP *still* had to go back to best buy all the time for repair |
| 16:50.48 | Amarande | she's got a toshiba now. think the only time it had to go back for repair was the time it was accidentally dropped due to cable-drag |
| 16:51.17 | Amarande | (and man that thing's tough, since even then it was only the screen that was busted ... the computer itself worked just fine if you hooked it up to external via HDMI) |
| 16:51.57 | Amarande | ah ... I'd venture to think if it was crappy RAM, but it seems more like crappy chipset support, yeah |
| 16:52.05 | Amarande | as for Acer, I won't touch them with a ten foot pole after learning they're made by ECS now |
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| 16:53.25 | PrivateSniper | anyone know how you would find out what team color you are in arena? a lot of the documentation I can find is aimed at the old meta-team system |
| 16:53.26 | Arrowmaster | the hp probook 6470b i brought home from work is massive twice as thick as my toshiba and so heavy |
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| 17:44.29 | bluspacecow | .... |
| 17:44.40 | bluspacecow | well this is interesting |
| 17:44.43 | bluspacecow | fan-dubbing |
| 17:45.43 | nevcairiel | fan dubbing is horrible |
| 17:45.50 | nevcairiel | even more so than real dubbing |
| 17:45.51 | bluspacecow | i thought the in thing with anime fans was to prefer the subbed version and not to say ... take a japanese episode , translate it then record english voices over the japanese |
| 17:46.10 | bluspacecow | this ones horrible |
| 17:46.23 | bluspacecow | so far they've used 3 different actors for one character |
| 17:46.39 | bluspacecow | and at one point the dialogue ducks into japanese for a few seconds |
| 17:46.43 | bluspacecow | its so inconsistent |
| 17:47.35 | PrivateSniper | anyone know how to find out if your green or gold in arena before someone dies? |
| 17:47.50 | foxlit | bluspacecow: have you discovered fan…. fiction yet? |
| 17:48.38 | Gnarfoz | hipster OS turning .... into an ellipsis and an extra dot, so clever! |
| 17:48.40 | Simca | don't forget about body pillows |
| 17:49.05 | foxlit | I’m fascinated in your opinion of whether Edward would totally do that to Jacob or not. |
| 17:49.22 | Gnarfoz | he totally would! Team Edward! |
| 17:49.47 | nevcairiel | Simca: admit it, you have a body pillow for snuggling! |
| 17:51.00 | foxlit | (Sturgeon’s law applies to most things, really) |
| 17:51.07 | bluspacecow | indeed I has foxlit |
| 17:51.54 | Amarande | bluspacecow: don't forget the obligatory laughably-extended syllables every now and then |
| 17:52.10 | Amarande | when the English word is too short but has to fit the same amount of airtime as the Japanese one due to the mouth animation |
| 17:52.23 | bluspacecow | for me the key was getting to a point of the episode where |
| 17:52.32 | bluspacecow | they called a character by their japanese name |
| 17:52.39 | Amarande | mind you, subs have their own issues, due to the lack of spoken emphasis |
| 17:52.55 | Amarande | remember that one from Fate/stay night I think it was ... "People die when they are killed" |
| 17:53.10 | zenzelezz | do like the Internet... CAPS and **lol** |
| 17:53.28 | Amarande | though a moment's reflection kinda makes it obvious that the emphasis has to be on "killed" there |
| 17:53.36 | Amarande | becauase if the emphasis was on "die" that would be a way to state the obvious dude |
| 17:53.54 | zenzelezz | and what makes you sure that isn't what he meant? |
| 17:53.55 | nevcairiel | caps and italic are older than the internet! |
| 17:54.06 | bluspacecow | even worse when they use a voice actor that sounds so wrong for the character |
| 17:54.19 | Amarande | which reminds me. I need to still watch the last two discs of Fate/stay night |
| 17:55.12 | foxlit | I wonder how long it’d take for technology to get to the point where you could actually fandub things easily and decently. |
| 17:55.15 | Amarande | Type-Moon is awesomeness. pity Kara no Kyoukai can't be had on legitimate DVD at any reasonable price :( |
| 17:55.37 | Gnarfoz | 20XX |
| 17:55.45 | Gnarfoz | not earlier |
| 17:55.49 | zenzelezz | Amarande: would also have been emphasis on "people" |
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| 17:56.23 | Amarande | US blu-ray set was 400 (and sold out immediately), US DVD set was 150 (and apparently is sold out at Aniplex, so has to be obtained from other sellers, though it seems to regularly be available for under 200 ... still, 150-200 is a lot for a single series nowadays)' |
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| 17:58.25 | Amarande | even learning Japanese wouldn't help, JPN side you have to buy each episode separately, which is like 60USD per DVD times 7 |
| 17:58.32 | Amarande | plus having to import a region 2 DVD player |
| 18:01.34 | Amarande | plus that learning Japanese itself is likely to cost 500 bucks or more, either for a course or the Rosetta Stones |
| 18:01.35 | nevcairiel | there is software to defeat region protections =p |
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| 18:02.30 | Amarande | nevcairiel: still, 400+ bucks for the DVDs, so it doesn't actually save you any money over just hunting down the English version :p |
| 18:05.22 | bluspacecow | meh |
| 18:05.30 | bluspacecow | they make region 0 DVD players now |
| 18:05.43 | bluspacecow | IE they ignore all region coding and just play DVDs from all regions |
| 18:06.01 | bluspacecow | woops |
| 18:06.08 | bluspacecow | i mean regionless DVD players |
| 18:06.22 | bluspacecow | i was thinking region 0 dvds which is a different beasty |
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| 18:11.38 | Gnarfoz | "now"? :O |
| 18:11.48 | Gnarfoz | that's not new at all, really |
| 18:14.00 | bluspacecow | *blinks* |
| 18:14.01 | bluspacecow | http://www.giftzr.com/2014/05/iphone-panties.html |
| 18:14.17 | haste | so last year! |
| 18:24.09 | g0urra | We'd Like to Hear From You |
| 18:24.10 | g0urra | Facebook is seeking participants for paid research studies. Complete a brief survey to see if you qualify for this research. |
| 18:24.10 | g0urra | uh |
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| 18:29.03 | kd3 | whee 3 power blinks |
| 18:29.17 | kd3 | wonders which power pole got driven into? |
| 18:29.26 | Ressy | fun |
| 18:31.48 | Amarande | kd3: time to buy a UPS? |
| 18:32.01 | kd3 | I'm fine, it was upstream of me |
| 18:32.17 | kd3 | (the outage) |
| 18:32.37 | Amarande | g0urra, that's gotta be a scam :) |
| 18:32.49 | Amarande | I mean, facebook is constantly surveying us for free every time we post there |
| 18:32.55 | Amarande | why would they legitimately want to pay us for a study :P |
| 18:34.52 | bluspacecow | it was a button in an area the normal Facebook API can't touch using assets it doesn't allow you to have (IIRC) |
| 18:39.19 | g0urra | "Your survey session has expired and you can no longer take the survey." |
| 18:39.20 | g0urra | sigh |
| 18:39.25 | g0urra | gg facebook |
| 18:39.37 | g0urra | "Unfortunately this survey has been closed. Thank you for your time." |
| 18:41.15 | Amarande | g0urra: gotta love windows of opportunity that resemble blizzcon tickets :| |
| 18:41.29 | Amarande | or dragon*con rooms |
| 18:41.31 | g0urra | except the survey site broke |
| 18:41.58 | Amarande | heh, tiny window of opportunity *and* the site broke? ... sounds even more like dragon*con rooms LOL |
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| 19:44.57 | karl_w_w | http://i.4cdn.org/b/1401130998661.jpg |
| 19:50.15 | kullervo | that's not even remotely amusing since it's a default feature on login pages |
| 20:07.30 | zenzelezz | would have to agree |
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| 20:26.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Syllios (18f37174@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.243.113.116) |
| 20:27.10 | Syllios | Would someone be so kind as to tell me why this isn't saving and restoring my frames? http://pastebin.com/Zdmc3iML All the code related to saving and restoring is there |
| 20:29.50 | Iriel | Syllios: when does it run? |
| 20:30.07 | Syllios | What exactly? |
| 20:30.12 | Iriel | th restore code? |
| 20:30.28 | Syllios | Oh add-on loaded event |
| 20:30.30 | Iriel | AH, I see it |
| 20:30.35 | Neffi | Syllios: SetMovable does not set IsUserPlaced to true |
| 20:30.41 | Neffi | Syllios: :SetUserPlaced(true) |
| 20:31.18 | Neffi | err, :StartMoving() doesn't "".. :StartMoving just starts moving the frame. it's what you would call when the user holds the mouse down |
| 20:31.36 | Syllios | is this outdated? http://www.wowwiki.com/API_Frame_SetUserPlaced |
| 20:31.53 | Syllios | says there "There is usually no need to explicitly call this function; the flag is automatically set by Frame:StartMoving(), and when the frame's position is restored from the layout cache." |
| 20:31.55 | Neffi | I would say so. |
| 20:32.20 | Iriel | Neffi: are you certain of that? |
| 20:32.24 | Neffi | Even if it is correct, you wouldn't call startmoving to save the position |
| 20:32.34 | Neffi | Iriel: About 80% certain. I guess I'd have to test again |
| 20:32.51 | Syllios | What do I call? I did it a while ago (like 1 and a half years ago, but forgot |
| 20:32.58 | Iriel | That latter comment (you dont call startmoving to save the position) is true regardless |
| 20:33.03 | Neffi | :SetUserPlaced(true) |
| 20:33.04 | Iriel | You can call SetUserPlaced(true) |
| 20:33.10 | Iriel | to make the game save the location |
| 20:33.25 | Neffi | :StartMoving() starts moving the frames. It sort of anchors it to the cursor until :StopMovingOrSizing() is called |
| 20:33.42 | Syllios | ah, let me try that |
| 20:33.56 | Iriel | You might want to check your frames are sanely anchored and you can check for them in the saved data when you log out |
| 20:34.12 | Syllios | so get rid of the something:StartMoving() line? |
| 20:34.25 | Iriel | replace it with SetUserPlaced(true) |
| 20:35.11 | Neffi | yes, Syllios. StartMoving is what you call on the OnMouseDown/OnDragStart scripts so the user can actually move it |
| 20:35.29 | Syllios | Yeah, I'm doing that already |
| 20:35.43 | Syllios | another issue |
| 20:36.23 | Syllios | there's a piece of code on the Icon class which when removed, the icons don't show at all, on line 111 |
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| 20:36.59 | Syllios | 114 * I had it do it regardless bu then realized that was resetting the position, but now it doesn't even show the icons |
| 20:37.22 | Syllios | I've tried resizing them but it doesn't show them anywway |
| 20:38.26 | Iriel | Did you check the frame cache when you logged out |
| 20:38.30 | Iriel | to see if they’re saved |
| 20:38.38 | Iriel | sorry, layout cache |
| 20:38.56 | Syllios | Mmm no, where's it at? |
| 20:39.20 | Iriel | It should be off by your saved variables somewhere. |
| 20:39.25 | Iriel | I haven’t looked for it lately tho |
| 20:39.36 | Syllios | let me browse |
| 20:39.57 | foxlit | Neffi: Iriel: About 80% certain. I guess I'd have to test again << About 80% wrong, too :) |
| 20:39.58 | kd3|hate`net | ~/wow/WTF/Account/<you>/<realm>/<character>/layout-local.txt |
| 20:40.50 | foxlit | to save you the next 15 minutes of chasings ghosts, read the third paragraph of http://wowpedia.org/Making_draggable_frames |
| 20:41.34 | Syllios | yep, not there |
| 20:42.12 | Syllios | they're not being saved |
| 20:42.53 | Syllios | but they're not showing up either now -_- when I remove the lines from 114 to 117 they don't show at all |
| 20:44.47 | Neffi | just a quick question |
| 20:44.57 | Simca | careful with your naming |
| 20:45.02 | Neffi | Is the frame you're saving a real frame (not a texture/fontstring) and does it have a name? |
| 20:45.57 | Simca | local icon = Icon:New(GlobalID) is pretty convoluted, and only the lowercase icon will be accessible now within that function |
| 20:47.15 | Syllios | yeah, line 103: local icon = CreateFrame("Frame", frameGlobalID, UIParent) |
| 20:48.07 | foxlit | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9hBE2jAaVI |
| 20:49.25 | Syllios | you mean line 85? It's just prepping an object to be returned, is that not right? |
| 20:49.37 | Simca | when you define the function as "function Icon:New", it defines a function called "New" under a table called "Icon". but that table is global and with such a generic name, there is a high chance for conflict |
| 20:50.22 | foxlit | (2 to 1 odds on: “that table is not global, I’m just not showing you every mudane detail of my code" |
| 20:50.23 | foxlit | ) |
| 20:51.02 | foxlit | (or is it 1 to 2? Odds are weird.) |
| 20:51.24 | nevcairiel | 2 to 1 sounds more "normal" |
| 20:51.55 | Syllios | Well, it's got a different global name, but on that file i grab the global and make a local called Icon, something like local Icon = _G["MYGOLBALICON"] @ the top of the file, |
| 20:52.15 | foxlit | I think that counts as a win for me. |
| 20:52.21 | Syllios | yeah kinda |
| 20:52.27 | Cide_ | unless |
| 20:52.31 | Cide_ | local Icon = _G["ICON"] |
| 20:52.36 | Syllios | HMMM?! |
| 20:52.38 | Syllios | lol no |
| 20:52.43 | Syllios | that would be pretty stupid |
| 20:52.44 | Cide_ | which would be very funny |
| 20:53.21 | Syllios | and yeah i just showed the code that involves saving and restoring, nothing useless |
| 20:54.18 | foxlit | (to further the linguistic tangent, wikipedia says it’s “2 to 1 against” if the event is unlikely, and “2 to 1 on” if the event is likely.) |
| 20:54.27 | Cide_ | fuck that |
| 20:54.49 | Cide_ | too subtle |
| 20:54.59 | kd3 | whoever said bookies had to make sense? |
| 20:55.37 | nevcairiel | bookies just have to make money |
| 20:55.39 | nevcairiel | for themself |
| 20:55.41 | nevcairiel | not for you |
| 20:56.58 | Syllios | now i need to figure out why they don't show |
| 21:02.45 | Syllios | do they anchor by default? |
| 21:03.06 | Syllios | They work if I use icon:SetPoint("Center", 0, 0) |
| 21:03.19 | Syllios | but that resets the positioning anyway |
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| 21:05.06 | Syllios | nvmd, it was a fluke or something |
| 21:09.51 | Syllios | When frames are restored, do they have the IsUserPlaced flag true?? or is it nil/false? |
| 21:10.58 | Iriel | It /should/ be set to true if they were restored from the layer cache |
| 21:11.02 | Iriel | They may have to be flagged moveable |
| 21:12.14 | Syllios | Oh good, so that pice of code should work? The http://pastebin.com/Zdmc3iML line 113? |
| 21:12.48 | foxlit | no. |
| 21:12.53 | Syllios | why not? |
| 21:12.57 | foxlit | Your commented code is equivalent to if true then |
| 21:13.33 | Syllios | Care to explain? You're repeating yourself |
| 21:14.01 | foxlit | assuming there’s nothing horribly out-of-place in the ellision, that code runs on A_L, and layout cache is loaded later. |
| 21:15.42 | Syllios | so then when should i restore the frames? |
| 21:16.03 | foxlit | foxlit: to save you the next 15 minutes of chasings ghosts, read the third paragraph of http://wowpedia.org/Making_draggable_frames |
| 21:18.36 | foxlit | “…, you'll need to create the frame, using a non-nil name, and flag it as movable before PLAYER_LOGIN fires.” |
| 21:21.17 | foxlit | so the only *real* problem with your original code was that you were calling :SetMovable() too late — should call that at creation, not when you want to save the position. |
| 21:23.01 | foxlit | and then of course you should set size and anchors when you create an icon as well fixing the “-- NOTE: THIS WAS PART OF THE CODE BUT NOW ICONS DON'T SHOW BECAUSE IT'S OUT!!!” self-inflicted issue. |
| 21:25.36 | Syllios | aren't the anchors, position, and sizing all saved? shouldn't they just be restored? |
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| 21:27.58 | Neffi | haha, lol http://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/zip/4450013065.html |
| 21:28.08 | foxlit | Syllios: they are, but not at the time you think they are. |
| 21:28.36 | Syllios | this api and environment is a load of complete ... |
| 21:29.06 | foxlit | meh, this particular design decision is kind of sensible |
| 21:30.04 | foxlit | it simplifies your code, since the only thing *you* need to do is to code as if the user didn’t do anything to your frame. |
| 21:30.25 | foxlit | it simplifes their code, since the only thing they need to do is run over the layout-cache once, restoring positions for matching frames. |
| 21:31.15 | Syllios | so what's the default icon size, how can i tell an icon wasn't restored? |
| 21:31.30 | Syllios | seems that's the only problem now |
| 21:32.05 | foxlit | The model I think you’re thinking of would involve them having to load the layout cache, keep it as a map of frame names to positioning data, and restore it at the time of frame creation. Then you’d have to insert an :IsUserPlaced() check into every bit of code that deals with positioning/sizing intialization |
| 21:33.50 | foxlit | Syllios: seems that's the only problem now << I don’t quite understand what the problem is, sorry. |
| 21:36.48 | foxlit | The literal answer to your question is that :IsUserPlaced() should return “correct” values on PLAYER_LOGIN. However, I don’t see why you’d need to make use of that in the first place. |
| 21:41.10 | *** part/#wowuidev aboutGod (~aboutGod@static-72-66-66-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 21:43.17 | Syllios | The icon initializes to default with and height if it's a new icon. But if it's not a new icon (if it's restored) I would like it to restore the rest. Meaning I need to apply a w:32 and h:32 to new icons, leave the rest as they're created. Problem is they don't show if I remove that code. |
| 21:45.04 | foxlit | And what happens if you don’t remove that code? |
| 21:47.25 | Syllios | the icons show centered (since the code says icon:SetPoint("Center", 0, 0) ) and the when exiting the icons DO save in the layout file. But again, they're restored and everything but since the code says SetPoint("Center", 0, 0) their position is reset |
| 21:47.29 | Syllios | shooting myself in the foot |
| 21:48.25 | foxlit | paste the Icon:New function somewhere |
| 21:53.26 | Syllios | sorry was having lunch, walking back and forth haha. I just don't want to keep wasting time on debugging. Hold up, let me get the code |
| 21:57.32 | Syllios | http://pastebin.com/EVVMKVqs |
| 21:58.12 | Syllios | Kinda ugly on the referencing to Icon, any suggestions on that are welcome. This is the only class I'm having to do that due to the fact I didn't write it |
| 22:01.33 | foxlit | I notice the distinct lack of icon:SetMovable(true) in there. |
| 22:04.05 | Syllios | yep, that fixed it xD |
| 22:04.18 | Syllios | That one line... god damn... |
| 22:05.02 | Syllios | Though they'd be restored as they were saved, that's why I make them movable when saving |
| 22:08.34 | Syllios | yeah, just tested it thoroughly. that was the issue |
| 22:10.33 | jleclanche | airtonix: complain and share: https://github.com/django/django/pull/2692 |
| 22:10.38 | jleclanche | Fucking idiots. |
| 22:15.09 | foxlit | Hey jleclanche. I read your comment. It’s like the opposite of civilized discourse. |
| 22:15.20 | Syllios | foxlit: thanks btw, forgot completely |
| 22:16.49 | jleclanche | foxlit: I don't really care. |
| 22:17.27 | jleclanche | This issue is the opposite of "intelligent" as well so what have you. |
| 22:26.39 | Neffi | Racially charged? |
| 22:26.47 | Neffi | That's about as dumb as saying men can't be raped |
| 22:27.28 | jleclanche | Politically correct pieces of shit. the django core team was bad enough already, but now they think master/slave databases are racist. |
| 22:27.44 | Dagmar | Racist? |
| 22:28.38 | Neffi | Everyone knows only blacks were ever enslaved /sarcasm |
| 22:28.41 | kd3|hate`net | has flashbacks to the LA kerfluffle a few years ago about master/slave disk drives |
| 22:29.27 | Stanzilla | oh god jleclanche |
| 22:29.31 | Stanzilla | that is super retarded |
| 22:30.51 | jleclanche | beautiful, made it to 4chan |
| 22:30.52 | jleclanche | https://boards.4chan.org/g/thread/42132224 |
| 22:31.32 | Neffi | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:31.37 | End | for some reason it reminds me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6kdRnbqnCw |
| 22:31.50 | Neffi | I wouldn't put much stock in anything they say |
| 22:33.16 | Syllios | max size for wow targas are 512 or 1024? |
| 22:33.54 | kd3 | 1024 |
| 22:33.58 | kd3 | http://wowpedia.org/TGA_files |
| 22:34.16 | foxlit | I wouldn’t trust that too much. |
| 22:34.58 | Syllios | Yeah I read it was 512 in one site, but 1024 in another |
| 22:37.05 | foxlit | (and both might well be wrong. figure out what size you want and check if it works.) |
| 22:37.31 | Syllios | kk |
| 22:42.24 | foxlit | for what it’s worth, my client seems to have no problem with 8192x4096, and a somewhat ridiculous 100mb. |
| 22:43.40 | kullervo | 100mb isn't much these days |
| 22:43.55 | mikma | yeah :( |
| 22:44.24 | foxlit | oh I don’t know. What’s the maximum file size limit on wowi? |
| 22:44.42 | Neffi | The limit used to be 512. It was bumped up to 1024. I guess from what fox just said, that limit might have been removed |
| 22:45.14 | Syllios | they don't document this shit do they... |
| 22:45.27 | kd3 | of course not |
| 22:45.29 | Syllios | no wonder sites are all over the place on it |
| 22:46.01 | foxlit | http://go-hero.net/i/tex.jpg << Doesn’t look very downscaled to me. |
| 22:46.07 | foxlit | s/down/up/ |
| 22:46.11 | Neffi | The docs are community maintained. If you see a problem, fix it |
| 22:46.12 | End | it's possible it was never consistent across platforms |
| 22:46.43 | foxlit | hardware, too. |
| 22:46.50 | End | yeah |
| 22:52.02 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3|hate`net (~Kaydeethr@unaffiliated/kd3) |
| 23:07.34 | mikma | http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=712_1401132616 |
| 23:07.43 | mikma | burn baby burn, disco inferno! |
| 23:16.49 | *** join/#wowuidev zoktar (~zoktar@unaffiliated/zoktar) |
| 23:22.27 | mikma | http://youtu.be/15a3EQgmnXA boom |
| 23:32.08 | *** join/#wowuidev plaw (~plaw@guifications/user/plaw) |
| 23:36.22 | Shirik | mikma: seems like a great way to blind people |
| 23:48.27 | Neffi | Anyone know of a better world generator for Minecraft? Something that makes more believable terrains and biomes |
| 23:58.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Esamynn|Away (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Esamynn) |
| 23:58.45 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Esamynn|Away] by ChanServ |
