| 00:00.04 | Gnarfoz | either my friend or I broke our site setup |
| 00:00.11 | TC-Work | That was an amusing movie |
| 00:00.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Ressy (~Ressy@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ARL/Ressy) |
| 00:00.21 | Gnarfoz | it just shows the latest pre-tumblr geektour |
| 00:00.27 | Gnarfoz | the older ones are inaccessible :| |
| 00:01.09 | nevcairiel | anyway, time to sleep was already like 2 hours ago, i should do that already |
| 00:01.23 | Gnarfoz | schedules? pff :| |
| 00:02.23 | Gnarfoz | ooh |
| 00:02.33 | nevcairiel | i'm currently working on a research project, that in theory makes for even more flexible working times then usual, but still, i prefer to keep somehwat of a regular schedule |
| 00:03.04 | Stanzilla | hahah I found a bavarian general |
| 00:03.12 | Gnarfoz | I totally understand that, even though I'm utterly incapable of applying even a children's version of the concept to my own life :p |
| 00:03.16 | nevcairiel | lol |
| 00:03.25 | Stanzilla | nevcairiel: what are you researching? |
| 00:03.35 | nevcairiel | I had a very fixed schedule when I still had to go to the office every day |
| 00:03.41 | Gnarfoz | ah... I forgot to put IPv6 IPs into the <VirtualHost> blocks of the older vhosts |
| 00:03.44 | nevcairiel | Liked being there for breakfast with the guys |
| 00:03.57 | Gnarfoz | now that I can actually access the page via v6, I run into this |
| 00:04.10 | nevcairiel | hehe, i found an error in my setup as well when i got v6 |
| 00:04.40 | Gnarfoz | the first one I found that, as soon as my phone grabbed a v6 IP (when I turned it on on the router), it stopped polling for mails |
| 00:04.53 | Gnarfoz | because I hadn't set up dovecot to listen on v6 |
| 00:05.08 | nevcairiel | Stanzilla: running a D3D GUI on linux/mac with whatever compat library we decide to use |
| 00:05.19 | Gnarfoz | instead of falling back to v4, where it was listening as before, it just... did nothing. kind of sad :P |
| 00:05.41 | Stanzilla | nevcairiel: for video playback or as a GUI? |
| 00:05.49 | nevcairiel | as a GUI |
| 00:05.51 | Stanzilla | oh yous aid gui |
| 00:05.51 | Stanzilla | damn |
| 00:05.53 | Stanzilla | yeah |
| 00:06.07 | nevcairiel | for video playback i'll have to write a native OGL video renderer at soem point |
| 00:06.20 | nevcairiel | right now i'm looking at wined3d as a translating library |
| 00:07.24 | Stanzilla | so it will be something like the plex ui or so |
| 00:07.41 | nevcairiel | sadly I dont have a mac, so all i can work on is linux and hope it works on mac :D |
| 00:07.56 | nevcairiel | colleague in the US can test on the mac though |
| 00:09.30 | nevcairiel | I dont know the plex thing all that much, but i guess its similar. It exists already, but only for windows based on d3d |
| 00:10.12 | Gnarfoz | and now the links even further back into the past work, too :D http://wales.geektour.de/ |
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| 00:10.18 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 00:10.32 | Gnarfoz | (better not look too closely, the further back they go, the more ridiculously bad the pages look) |
| 00:11.30 | nevcairiel | we did a similar trip like that through AU last year, but noone of us would ever want to write shit :P |
| 00:14.06 | Neffi | nevcairiel: what do you do now? still jriver? |
| 00:14.09 | nevcairiel | anyway, sleep for realzies now |
| 00:14.12 | nevcairiel | yes |
| 00:14.24 | Neffi | nite :D |
| 00:15.31 | Gnarfoz | lol we even offered Wallpapers in 4:3, 5:4 and 16:9 |
| 00:15.40 | Gnarfoz | scratch that, 16:10 |
| 00:15.56 | Amarande | 16:10 forever! |
| 00:15.58 | Neffi | so no 16:9? |
| 00:16.00 | Gnarfoz | obviously catering to screen sizes of the day (and present in either my or my friend's households) |
| 00:16.10 | Amarande | seriously. I'm going to have the sads if when this monitor ever goes, I have to settle for 16:9 |
| 00:16.11 | Neffi | I hate 5:4 so much |
| 00:16.19 | Gnarfoz | it's the worst |
| 00:16.21 | Amarande | I find the extra 11% of vertical space to be highly useful in UI configgling for MMOs |
| 00:16.23 | Gnarfoz | 1280x1024! |
| 00:16.34 | Gnarfoz | I guess I was bored when I made that |
| 00:16.59 | Neffi | I was stuck with that resolution for FAR longer than was considered acceptible. I came to despise it |
| 00:17.33 | Neffi | Now I'm at 1366, which has less vertical real estate and sucks hardcore too, but I still consider it an upgrade because no 5:4 |
| 00:17.43 | Gnarfoz | rightfully so |
| 00:18.19 | Gnarfoz | hah, one of the wallpapers is from where the train scene from beginning of Harry Potter 2 (I think :O) was filmed |
| 00:18.36 | Gnarfoz | man, this was only a couple of years ago, totally forgot |
| 00:18.49 | Gnarfoz | good thing we took pictures and wrote a blog :P |
| 00:28.31 | Amarande | I'm thinking of going 1440p when I need a new monitor, whenever that may be |
| 00:28.39 | Amarande | I'm a little foggy what the aspect ratio of that is ... *calculates* |
| 00:28.51 | Amarande | 1.778:1 |
| 00:29.00 | MiRai | 16:9 |
| 00:29.22 | Amarande | ah, is 2560:1440 congruent to 1920:1080? I wasn't sure :) |
| 00:29.28 | MiRai | yeah |
| 00:29.35 | MiRai | and the 3K version of that is 2880x1620 |
| 00:29.49 | Amarande | probably will not go 4k for a long long time |
| 00:29.57 | Amarande | there just aren't enough good uses for 4k unless you are a developer or are mega rich |
| 00:30.11 | Amarande | even though screens are starting to come down in price lately it seems |
| 00:30.29 | MiRai | I dunno about 4K either... it just seems too much right now |
| 00:39.44 | Amarande | basically, the biggest problems are that gaming at 4k requires extremely expensive (not to mention power guzzling) GPU muscle (nVidia says DUAL 780's at least) |
| 00:40.02 | Amarande | and that streaming video at 4K will be limited to LANs for a long time to come |
| 00:40.56 | Amarande | even if there were no caps, the net neutrality row is exposing that a lot of links in the US just aren't even really ready for 1080p, let alone 4k |
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| 00:48.24 | Gnarfoz | postgrey[23438]: action=pass, reason=triplet found, delay=3200, client_name=super-angebote-2014-neu-4.biz, client_address=185.51.232.153, sender=Susann.Grand@super-angebote-2014-neu-4.biz, recipient=mail@ |
| 00:48.28 | Gnarfoz | seriously >_> |
| 00:49.39 | Gnarfoz | yeah, forward and reverse dns match, and it even does greylisting |
| 00:49.43 | Gnarfoz | :| |
| 00:49.58 | Gnarfoz | spammers need to diaf |
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| 01:00.38 | Semlar | if a caster gets a buff like "30% bonus damage", how do you get that multiplier through the api |
| 01:01.13 | Semlar | i found UnitDamage and UnitRangedDamage but i don't see one for spell damage |
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| 01:10.26 | relaxok | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:10.28 | relaxok | oops |
| 01:10.34 | relaxok | (identity crisis) |
| 01:10.45 | relaxok | (actually i just forgot what server this is) |
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| 01:22.31 | Gnarfoz | better than forgetting who you are |
| 01:32.16 | TC-Work | *sigh* where is Iriel when you need to throw info at him. |
| 01:33.04 | jleclanche | what info? I need to know. I need info. |
| 01:33.53 | TC-Work | That display port can do 4K @ 60hz but it does multiplexing requires the output of 2 inputs. |
| 01:34.10 | jleclanche | Aw man, what =/ |
| 01:34.23 | TC-Work | and that hdmi 2.0 can do it, but most things are still hdmi 1.4 |
| 01:34.35 | Gnarfoz | was he asking for that |
| 01:34.44 | Gnarfoz | or did you randomly stumble upon this |
| 01:34.50 | Gnarfoz | (or what) |
| 01:35.00 | TC-Work | Well we both have a thing about high resolution monitors and he keeps asking me if I found him a good one. |
| 01:35.25 | TC-Work | That being said, I do not want to spend $2.5K for one. |
| 01:35.37 | Gnarfoz | 4K with > 30 Hz is still bleeeh because reasons (you just mentioned them) |
| 01:36.08 | Gnarfoz | btw the "newer version can do it but nobody implements newer version" applies for DP also I think? |
| 01:36.12 | TC-Work | multiplexing and requires* |
| 01:36.20 | TC-Work | jezz, that was bad english. |
| 01:36.23 | TC-Work | jeez* |
| 01:36.48 | TC-Work | No, current DP 1.2 can do it |
| 01:37.39 | TC-Work | "In order to power games at this resolution with settings turned up NVIDIA recommends GTX 780 SLI or better." ouch. |
| 01:38.05 | TC-Work | well, still 7 displays is not bad. |
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| 01:38.38 | Gnarfoz | I meant withotu multiplexing |
| 01:38.41 | Gnarfoz | TYPOS |
| 01:39.01 | Gnarfoz | also I wonder if there's actually any desktop displays with DP that do DP chaining |
| 01:39.08 | Gnarfoz | less cables \o/ |
| 01:39.20 | Gnarfoz | (fewer?) |
| 01:39.32 | TC-Work | Thone only thing I know of that can do it on a single channel is HD_SDI |
| 01:39.37 | TC-Work | HD-SDI* |
| 01:40.11 | Arrowmaster | hdmi is dead, long live displayport |
| 01:40.39 | TC-Work | I am typing like ass tonight |
| 01:41.16 | Gnarfoz | are you typing with your ass maybe? |
| 01:41.25 | Gnarfoz | a common mistake |
| 01:41.37 | TC-Work | 3t5 m.,n tmn,5ibr54mn 3 br5mn6brmny6,9 |
| 01:41.40 | TC-Work | yes |
| 01:41.44 | Arrowmaster | also which 4k are you referring to? theres something like 3 different definitions of 4k now |
| 01:42.21 | Gnarfoz | the one that undeservedly will be called 4k probably. the one that isn't actually 4k. :P |
| 01:42.33 | TC-Work | ^ |
| 01:42.38 | Gnarfoz | (the 4x 1080p one) |
| 01:42.40 | TC-Work | 3840x2160 |
| 01:42.51 | TC-Work | since getting the proper kind will be impossible |
| 01:43.07 | Arrowmaster | proper 4k isnt much off from that |
| 01:43.13 | Gnarfoz | of course it isn't |
| 01:43.24 | Gnarfoz | but check out the price difference between 1080p and 1200p screens |
| 01:43.31 | Gnarfoz | same situation again there |
| 01:43.48 | Arrowmaster | its just the consumer market has decided it benefits them to a smaller screen and call it 4k |
| 01:43.53 | TC-Work | That and they are going to stop making them because "Why make two different screens when we can do one." |
| 01:43.55 | Arrowmaster | to make |
| 01:43.58 | Gnarfoz | blame TV |
| 01:44.05 | Gnarfoz | TC-Work: less is more! |
| 01:44.31 | Gnarfoz | applies to: varieties, choices, freedom, others |
| 01:46.25 | Gnarfoz | http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/05/googles-self-driving-cars-have-never-gotten-a-ticket/371172/ "back out of the intersection" oO are you crazy |
| 01:47.11 | Gnarfoz | (I'm obviously not very used to US (I'm aware they're not homogenous across states) traffic laws) |
| 01:47.39 | Gnarfoz | I wonder how many traffic laws I violated during my 15 days of driving in the US :D |
| 01:48.02 | kd3|hate`net | if there's nobody behind you and you're in the intersection when you're not supposed to be, backing out is probably less likely to get you a ticket than trying to make the left turn anyway |
| 01:48.04 | Arrowmaster | if you are in the intersection when the light turns red you have the right of way to proceed forward and make the turn |
| 01:48.15 | kd3 | you'd think that, but I've gotten ticketed for it before |
| 01:48.28 | Arrowmaster | must depend on the state |
| 01:49.10 | Arrowmaster | cant wait for the weekly google car updates to comply with every little state and local traffic law change |
| 01:49.13 | Gnarfoz | ok, the "if there's nobody behind you situation" I can agree with |
| 01:49.45 | Gnarfoz | (however, what Arrowmaster said is true for us in Germany, too) |
| 01:50.13 | Arrowmaster | i would always challenge a ticket like that |
| 01:50.16 | Gnarfoz | note that in most cases, our traffic lights are placed in a way that once you've entered the intersection/crossed the stop line, you can't see them anymore anyway |
| 01:51.11 | Gnarfoz | so making laws that'd required the driver to know if their light turned red by now would be strange :D |
| 01:51.48 | Arrowmaster | its like that everywhere |
| 01:52.10 | Arrowmaster | very common situation |
| 01:52.51 | Arrowmaster | "8K UHDTV (4320p) is 7680 pixels wide by 4320 pixels tall" can we tell the consumer electronic manufacturers to just fuck off |
| 01:53.18 | Gnarfoz | if they ever do 16K, it'll be even further toward being actual 15K |
| 01:53.28 | TC-Work | They will never |
| 01:53.37 | TC-Work | the human eye can not discern past 8K |
| 01:53.40 | Gnarfoz | pfff |
| 01:53.48 | kd3 | we should've back when HDD makers went to powers of 10 and not 2 for disk space... |
| 01:53.51 | Arrowmaster | it can if we put the screen far enough away |
| 01:53.53 | TC-Work | which is why I think we should go straight to 8. |
| 01:53.58 | Gnarfoz | next you're going to say the human eye can't see more than 30 fps! :P |
| 01:54.19 | jleclanche | TC-Work: resolution isn't always about whether you can discern things 6ft away |
| 01:54.28 | Gnarfoz | kd3: arrrrrgh >_> that's close to the top of my "if I ever get into a time machine" list |
| 01:54.31 | TC-Work | jleclanche: This is in inches. |
| 01:54.32 | Arrowmaster | TC-Work: so imax-3d, most overrated thing ever considering the shitty resolution right |
| 01:54.34 | TC-Work | not ft. |
| 01:54.35 | Neffi | TC-Work: Vernier acuity. yes it can |
| 01:54.44 | jleclanche | TC-Work: resolution isn't always about whether you can discern things 6mm away |
| 01:55.06 | Neffi | The human visual system is more complex than "we can't discern more than x PPI/FPS" |
| 01:55.36 | jleclanche | resolution isn't always about whether you can discern things altogether |
| 01:55.48 | Gnarfoz | Arrowmaster: isn't imax-3d indeed shitty? or am I confusing that with one of the other modern "fake" IMAX types that aren't really all that great (compared to how crazy awesome the 70 mm IMAX was to the 35 mm regular cinema) |
| 01:56.06 | Neffi | +1 jleclanche |
| 01:56.18 | Neffi | Our visual processing is a lot more impressive than the eyes alone |
| 01:56.20 | Arrowmaster | imax-3d is two 2k projectors with polarized filters, its no better than a 1080p bluray |
| 01:56.23 | kd3 | if it's not on a curved, gigantic screen, it's not imax |
| 01:56.28 | jleclanche | theres a lot of reasons to keep driving things forward. its like when the human race went to the moon and just said "well thats good enough, lets just stay on earth now and work on improved lipstick products" |
| 01:56.42 | Gnarfoz | hmmm lipstick |
| 01:56.47 | Amarande | kd3, keep in mind that cops in most cities are under an enormous amount of pressure from the bosses to give out as many tickets as humanly possible :p |
| 01:57.15 | Arrowmaster | actually imax-3d is worse than watching on a 1080p screen at home because the screen is much farther away than your 1080p screen at home |
| 01:57.21 | Amarande | there's been many an expose on it, especially when commishes go overboard and start telling cops to focus on minor little ticketable crimes instead of serious stuff for the sake of city coffers |
| 01:58.00 | Arrowmaster | like that state highway patrol officer that gave me a ticket for 83 in a 70, nobody fucking cares asshole |
| 01:58.29 | Amarande | then of course there's the little strip towns (especially down south, apparently) that basically make their entire town budget out of tickets |
| 01:58.40 | Amarande | typically by significantly lowering the speed limit in town and snagging unwitting thru travelers :P |
| 01:58.54 | Arrowmaster | state judge said thats illegal here |
| 01:59.24 | Amarande | yeah, it usually takes higher authority to squish such things |
| 01:59.43 | Amarande | sometimes they even take it up to eleven, I heard of one town in Texas that was basically padding its town coffers by making bogus drug charges |
| 02:00.03 | Amarande | which they would drop later, the only reason they laid them was so they could invoke asset forfeiture to snag all the cash the poor sods targeted had on them |
| 02:00.30 | Amarande | apparently the *Feds* smacked those guys down, because they made the whole system look especially bad |
| 02:06.17 | Neffi | http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/05/fbi-chief-says-anti-marijuana-policy-hinders-the-hiring-of-cyber-experts/ lol |
| 02:09.02 | relaxok | can someone explain a little bit how you can bind lua to member functions e.g. MainMenuBar_OnLoad(self) passes that frame as an argument somehow... |
| 02:09.07 | relaxok | (in C++) |
| 02:09.25 | Semlar | wha |
| 02:10.07 | Neffi | It pushes the frame object onto the stack and calls the function. I'm not sure if you're expecting some special behavior that you didnt explain well |
| 02:10.40 | relaxok | ah i guess i didn't realize you could push arbitrary objects like that |
| 02:10.51 | Neffi | The API is pretty well defined in the manual. I had no problem following it with no impressive command of C. If you still need help you ought to ask in #lua |
| 02:11.04 | Semlar | pushes neffi off the stack |
| 02:11.17 | Neffi | you don't push off the stack. you pop |
| 02:11.26 | Semlar | not the way i do it |
| 02:11.36 | relaxok | Neffi, im trying to learn |
| 02:11.55 | Neffi | well you could push me at the wrong index for the given call and I end up getting orphaned on the stack |
| 02:11.59 | Neffi | balance your stack tho |
| 02:12.13 | Semlar | makes neffi an orphan |
| 02:12.17 | relaxok | Neffi: i knew 0 about lua until a few minutes ago |
| 02:12.19 | Neffi | D: |
| 02:12.19 | Amarande | heh, 'stack' is making me think of when I played blue in Magic |
| 02:12.29 | Amarande | Blue: No better way to cause stack overflows in people's brains :) |
| 02:12.31 | Semlar | stack is making me think of boobs |
| 02:12.33 | relaxok | Neffi: looking up if 'self' is something lua-ish or not |
| 02:12.44 | Neffi | self is syntactical sugar. it's just the first arg |
| 02:12.52 | Amarande | Especially if your opponent also plays blue ... those games can go on forever :p |
| 02:12.59 | Neffi | well, i've gotta run. see: #lua. they're good at this whole Lua thing |
| 02:22.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Syllios (18f37174@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.243.113.116) |
| 02:23.01 | Syllios | Is there a way to get position of the icons on the minimap? |
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| 02:29.17 | kd3 | not unless you mouse over them |
| 02:30.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (~Amarande@24-151-100-63.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 02:31.13 | Syllios | Been away for a while, what's the dump function again? |
| 02:31.28 | Gnarfoz | /dump |
| 02:31.30 | Gnarfoz | ? :D |
| 02:31.35 | Syllios | lol really? |
| 02:31.57 | Stanzilla | also /run dump() if you want to write more |
| 02:32.07 | Gnarfoz | you seem to be of the ask before try variety! |
| 02:32.08 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 02:32.12 | Gnarfoz | Stanzilla: maaaan |
| 02:32.16 | Gnarfoz | need sleep |
| 02:32.28 | Stanzilla | why u no sleep |
| 02:32.29 | pompy | then go |
| 02:33.11 | Syllios | yeah sorry I just want to get up to speed again |
| 02:40.25 | kd3 | wow. Eskandiel worked me over hard in a T1 rift |
| 02:55.35 | Stanzilla | I one-hit T1 bosses :( |
| 02:55.53 | kd3 | what's your paragon level? |
| 02:55.57 | Stanzilla | 450 |
| 02:56.04 | kd3 | yah, see, I'm only 81 |
| 02:56.26 | Amarande | good grief, paragon 450? |
| 02:56.30 | Amarande | I remember when 100 was stuff of legend |
| 02:56.44 | Amarande | but yeah, I pretty much *stopped* playing D3 with Loot 2.0, oddly enough |
| 02:56.46 | Stanzilla | are you using paragon levels as a factor of time invested or of their actual power? |
| 03:00.28 | Syllios | Thank you for your help guys. |
| 03:04.20 | karl_w_w | https://www.youtube.com/user/FrEckleStudios/videos one hit wonder youtube channels |
| 03:10.06 | Amarande | Stanzilla: I mean it used to take forever to get to para100 |
| 03:10.12 | Amarande | highest I got back in the day was 16 |
| 03:10.25 | Stanzilla | that was adjusted in patch 2.0 |
| 03:11.10 | Stanzilla | the hardcore players are at 700+ now |
| 03:15.13 | Amarande | surprised in a gear based game they'd let them do that |
| 03:15.45 | Amarande | aren't you going to get to a point eventually where the para bonuses overshadow the gear? heh |
| 03:15.54 | Semlar | not really |
| 03:16.09 | Semlar | your stats from paragon points are capped in each category |
| 03:16.16 | Semlar | except your primary stat |
| 03:17.03 | Semlar | which really doesn't add that much damage |
| 03:17.35 | Semlar | in diablo, mostly you just find a gimmick you can exploit based on what gear you find |
| 03:18.21 | Semlar | until the developers decide it wasn't what they intended and then you have to redo everything |
| 03:22.11 | Thunder_Child | Iriel: Did you notice that samsung came out with a $700 4K monitor? |
| 03:22.12 | Stanzilla | Amarande: paragon points only give a very small boost to dps etc |
| 03:22.15 | Stanzilla | that's why I was asking |
| 03:23.57 | MiRai | Thunder_Child: Is it the one that only runs at 30Hz? |
| 03:24.24 | MiRai | or... is it an actual monitor monitor? |
| 03:24.27 | Thunder_Child | MiRai: If you use DP you can get 60Hz, but no, this is a different one. |
| 03:24.35 | Thunder_Child | or HDMI 2.0 |
| 03:24.38 | Thunder_Child | when it comes out |
| 03:25.12 | MiRai | gotcha |
| 03:27.37 | Iriel | Thunder_Child: I didn’t — what’s the catch with this one? |
| 03:28.06 | Amarande | MiRai: though keep in mind if you don't have EXTREMELY beefy video cards, you might as well use HDMI 1.4a anyway :P |
| 03:28.16 | Amarande | because you're not actually going to GET much more than 30 FPS anyway, probably heh |
| 03:28.31 | MiRai | as a multiboxer, I've got a pretty beefy setup :) |
| 03:28.35 | Amarande | nVidia's recommendation for 4K is *dual* GTX 780, at a *minimum* |
| 03:28.36 | Thunder_Child | Iriel: As far as I can tell, just the fact that it is the lesser panel type |
| 03:28.51 | Iriel | has a 2013 mac pro just waiting for bigger monitors. |
| 03:29.17 | Iriel | Thunder_Child: Hm, wonder what the color reproduction ends up like |
| 03:29.42 | Amarande | heh, speaking of which, what always makes me shake my head are people with an idee fixe on ever-increasing gaming framerates |
| 03:29.46 | Thunder_Child | TN, that was it |
| 03:29.49 | Thunder_Child | http://www.samsung.com/levant/consumer/computers-peripherals/monitors/led-monitor/LU28D590DS/ZN |
| 03:29.54 | Amarande | like "we need video cards that can increase our framerate from 80 fps to 100 in our fave game!" |
| 03:29.59 | Amarande | ... and then they use 60 Hz monitors |
| 03:30.17 | Iriel | I love this: Dynamic Contrast Ratio |
| 03:30.19 | Iriel | Mega ∞ |
| 03:30.45 | Thunder_Child | Yea, doublespeak |
| 03:31.41 | Thunder_Child | Seems to have good reviews |
| 03:31.52 | MiRai | Amarande: So true |
| 03:32.52 | Iriel | Thunder_Child: let me know how it is when you get one, so I know if it’s worth it 8-) |
| 03:33.24 | Thunder_Child | Iriel: I'm tempted since they might need to take away my 30"s at work. |
| 03:39.06 | Iriel | Hm, the review I see seems eager to brush over the weak spots - which i guess is generous of them but it seems a bit wierd. (Poor black level, Poor contrast) |
| 03:40.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Neffi (~Neffi@pool-98-116-157-170.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 03:40.15 | Thunder_Child | Not really. They simply think it is the price of getting a 4K monitor at sub $1K prices |
| 03:40.48 | Iriel | Fair enough |
| 03:41.36 | Fisker | Iriel |
| 03:41.42 | Iriel | Fisker |
| 03:41.51 | Fisker | You're my second best iriel containing person |
| 03:45.39 | Iriel | Wow, SECOND best? |
| 03:45.47 | Iriel | I live for that kind of honour. |
| 03:49.06 | Fisker | yep |
| 03:49.39 | Fisker | It takes a lot to become second best in a race between two people |
| 03:50.23 | Iriel | Second ouf of two, this just keeps getting better! |
| 03:57.30 | Thunder_Child | Iriel: The only better one I have seen is 2.5K |
| 03:57.38 | Thunder_Child | which is a tad more than I want to spend. |
| 03:58.21 | airtonix | i'm the first |
| 03:58.24 | relaxok | how exactly does stuff like MainMenuBarVehicleLeaveButton:Show(); even work? |
| 03:58.32 | airtonix | magnets |
| 03:58.45 | kd3 | frames can exist without being visible |
| 03:58.52 | relaxok | lua associates element names with an object that it can call member functions on? |
| 03:59.37 | kd3 | if you either have a local reference to it or it's in the global namespace |
| 03:59.39 | airtonix | what is this "element name" nonsense? |
| 03:59.47 | airtonix | are you using xml? |
| 03:59.58 | airtonix | evil eyes |
| 04:00.03 | relaxok | UI element.. whatever.. it's a common term |
| 04:00.18 | airtonix | common amongst what? |
| 04:00.22 | relaxok | UI design? |
| 04:00.24 | airtonix | xml users? |
| 04:00.42 | relaxok | you know WoW's UI is xml right? |
| 04:00.49 | airtonix | you know it doesn't have to be right? |
| 04:01.13 | relaxok | kd3: ahhh so the game adds all the addressable frames/etc as globals that the scripts can use and call members of? |
| 04:01.14 | Iriel | The XML is just an object creation instruction language |
| 04:01.31 | kd3 | no, not all of them, not by far. |
| 04:01.33 | Iriel | Ultimately it’s instantiating objects and establishing their lua counterparts into the environment |
| 04:01.55 | airtonix | Iriel: relaxok yes its like using the uibuilder in gtk or pyside |
| 04:02.50 | airtonix | or even android ui construction |
| 04:02.53 | relaxok | what a bizarre conversation... shit-talking about xml when... i mean.. i'm parsing MainMenuBar.xml in FrameXML for christsake |
| 04:03.08 | relaxok | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphical_user_interface_elements |
| 04:03.10 | relaxok | anyway |
| 04:03.10 | kd3 | it's a near-decade of hatred talking |
| 04:03.15 | airtonix | xml sucks |
| 04:03.27 | relaxok | kd3: okay not all.. but.. many |
| 04:03.58 | airtonix | in terms of Wow UI, there's very few good reasons to use xml in your addon |
| 04:04.03 | relaxok | kd3: so in the lua sense, there is a gigantic stack that holds all the globals or what? |
| 04:04.06 | airtonix | like about one good reason. |
| 04:04.11 | Iriel | it’s a table, not a stack |
| 04:04.13 | Iriel | but yes. |
| 04:04.23 | Iriel | You can get at it via the global _G |
| 04:04.33 | relaxok | airtonix, i'm making a UI system and parsing WoW stuff as an example.. not making addons. |
| 04:04.46 | kd3 | a useful shorthand is to think of everything in lua as tables |
| 04:05.02 | Semlar | you're a table |
| 04:05.04 | airtonix | relaxok: if it's something i enable inside wow. it's an addon. |
| 04:05.07 | relaxok | its not |
| 04:05.41 | relaxok | kd3: in what sense are globals able to call member functions with :? is that a particular lua feature with a name? |
| 04:05.49 | Iriel | : is a method call in lua |
| 04:05.57 | Iriel | obj:method(foo) —> obj.method(obj, foo) |
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| 04:06.32 | relaxok | Iriel: but is that directly calling C++ stuff in the client or other lua things? |
| 04:06.39 | Iriel | each ‘frame’ object in lua is a table with the key 0 (the number) having a userdata pointer to the C++ object |
| 04:07.02 | relaxok | Iriel: ahhhhh |
| 04:07.16 | Iriel | and then each frame table has a metatable with an __index containing (C++) functions that in turn invoke the underlying UI framework. |
| 04:07.44 | Iriel | (There’s obviously protection and C++ type dispatch logic behind the scenes so we can’t break the game by messing with the tables) |
| 04:08.12 | Iriel | They used index 0 so that they wouldn’t interfere with “normal” use of those tables for other purposes. |
| 04:08.28 | Iriel | (As opposed to index 1, which would have been faster) |
| 04:08.50 | relaxok | Iriel: i think i get it.. im still going through the programming in lua bind chapter and learning basic lua crap |
| 04:08.58 | Iriel | The “Frame” in Lua is really just a clever handle to the underlying C++ object |
| 04:09.21 | Iriel | and the “Frame Methods” in lua are a nicely constructued binding from the lua to the C++ |
| 04:09.23 | relaxok | right.. yeah that is what i'm doing |
| 04:09.43 | Iriel | But the handles are also tables, so that ui code can put stuff in them |
| 04:09.49 | Iriel | which makes them very easy to use |
| 04:11.05 | Iriel | All of the tables representing a specific ‘type’ of frame have the same metatable, and the same dispatch methods. |
| 04:11.08 | relaxok | Iriel: yeah this is exactly how i was hoping it worked.. now i just need to figure out the api usage to do this |
| 04:11.46 | relaxok | re table/metatable |
| 04:11.50 | relaxok | dont really know what that is yet |
| 04:12.07 | kd3 | http://www.lua.org/pil/2.5.html |
| 04:12.21 | Iriel | relaxok: you’re going to want to learn because it’ll greatly simplify your life. |
| 04:13.05 | Iriel | You might hunt down other people’s C/C++ lua bindings too, there are a bunch of techniques (like the refs table) which are probably easier to /see/ than infer. |
| 04:14.42 | relaxok | i made a lua-callable function earlier but since it has to be static and can only take lua_state as a parameter, i didn't really know how to use it like a UI frame's member function |
| 04:14.55 | relaxok | like you said i guess with the userdata pointer |
| 04:15.05 | airtonix | no Semlar |
| 04:15.23 | Semlar | yes semlar |
| 04:15.25 | Iriel | relaxok: C code retrieves lua arguments from the lua stack (via the C api and the stack) |
| 04:16.09 | Iriel | relaxok: You’ll need to figure out how to associate the lua objects with your C objects, you can use userdata (heavy or light, depending on your garbage collection needs), or even just “object ID’s” and then resolve those in your C code. |
| 04:16.52 | Iriel | relaxok: In wow, for example, the lifetime of UI elements is “forever” so there’s no need for tricky garbage collection tricks in the binding - your mileage may vary |
| 04:17.05 | relaxok | yeah i'm hoping to do the same |
| 04:17.13 | relaxok | that would be light userdata then? |
| 04:17.16 | Iriel | (You can always iterate across the frame stack and ‘rediscover’ frames you cleared the globals for) |
| 04:17.26 | Iriel | light userdata is essentially a pointer, yes. |
| 04:18.01 | Iriel | there’s no garbage collection, it’s just a value (Lua can’t see the pointer’s “value”, it can just pass the thing around) |
| 04:18.16 | relaxok | let's say you are loading/parsing the entirety of FrameXML in WoW (which is what im doing ideally)... how many total lua_States are you creating when doing that? I don't really understand when you make new ones and when you keep pushing to one of thems stack (and how big the stack should be) |
| 04:18.27 | Iriel | One |
| 04:18.32 | Iriel | The lua_State is the whole of lua |
| 04:18.49 | Iriel | you only need multiple states if you’re running multiple completely distinct lua environments within one process. |
| 04:18.54 | relaxok | okay, so you init/openlibs once and then use that same state for everything |
| 04:19.02 | Iriel | yes, that’s the usual model |
| 04:19.11 | relaxok | it's likely that WoW has a way bigger stack than the default isnt it? |
| 04:19.20 | Iriel | (Lua is single threaded, some multithreading approaches create a state per thread, but then need to provide mechanisms for them to talk about one another). |
| 04:19.47 | Iriel | I doubt the /stack/ needs to be that big. |
| 04:19.51 | relaxok | awesome info man |
| 04:19.53 | Iriel | Most of lua’s heavy lifting goes on the heap |
| 04:19.57 | relaxok | i am changing how this works as we speak |
| 04:20.03 | Iriel | and lua’s “stack” is also on the heap IIRC |
| 04:20.13 | relaxok | i was making a new lua_State for every UI element and every script it loaded |
| 04:20.20 | Iriel | that is craziness. |
| 04:20.55 | Iriel | and was no doubt causing you to question why anyone would use lua for this at all 8-) |
| 04:21.02 | relaxok | yep |
| 04:21.54 | Iriel | Think of “lua_State” as “the lua system” |
| 04:22.06 | Iriel | that’s why almost every API function takes it as a parameter |
| 04:22.35 | relaxok | you would think it would be a base object that would have the api as member functions |
| 04:22.38 | relaxok | but i guess its a C API |
| 04:22.41 | Iriel | It’s C |
| 04:22.42 | Iriel | yes. |
| 04:23.09 | Iriel | It’s fairly typical for folks building bindings to write a thin “binding layer” between lua and their native code |
| 04:23.17 | Iriel | so that MOST of the time they’re not calling the lua api directly |
| 04:23.29 | Iriel | they’re calling helpef functions in their binding layer |
| 04:31.52 | airtonix | btw Semlisker: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBGiskdYzt4 |
| 04:38.44 | Semlar | raccoon |
| 04:40.10 | airtonix | i knew you'd appreciate it |
| 04:40.24 | airtonix | wtb racoon smack talking shadowpriest |
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| 04:55.12 | Iriel | sleeps. |
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| 10:29.03 | Kalroth | jleclanche: arent you a django expert?! |
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| 13:27.15 | karl_w_w | "The reason that we went singleplayer...well, originally, we were thinking about having a multiplayer option, but because we're going with a pay-to-win model" |
| 13:33.29 | zenzio | who said that? |
| 13:33.59 | karl_w_w | new soul calibur game |
| 13:34.52 | karl_w_w | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlAnVhzNaBE ~ http://www.siliconera.com/2014/05/19/bandai-namco-theres-multiplayer-soulcalibur-lost-swords/ |
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| 13:41.29 | Ycarene | Are there any addons that allow a person to save a set of transmog gear? |
| 13:42.35 | Ycarene | And I don't mean mogit |
| 13:44.09 | Workfoz | does mogit offer that? |
| 13:44.24 | Ycarene | I think mogit is just a catalog |
| 13:46.24 | Workfoz | ok |
| 13:57.22 | jleclanche | Kalroth: i know django |
| 13:57.24 | jleclanche | whats up? |
| 14:02.17 | Kalroth | jleclanche: everything |
| 14:02.50 | Kalroth | i'm trying to get a simple django app running (on Dreamhost), but half the stuff in the tutorial doesn't make sense :p |
| 14:03.20 | jleclanche | Kalroth: whats it supposed to do? depending on your use case, flask might be easier and more suitable |
| 14:03.34 | Kalroth | sadly it has to be django |
| 14:03.38 | Kalroth | flask looks easy .. |
| 14:04.00 | jleclanche | so what doesnt make sense? |
| 14:04.42 | Kalroth | well i'm trying to make a simple hello world app, but it guides me through the admin interface and stuff - i guess it's just dreamhost being odd |
| 14:04.47 | Kalroth | or its a newer version |
| 14:05.15 | jleclanche | the admin is kinda built into django so you get it for free but you can completely ignore it as well |
| 14:05.17 | nevcairiel | I've often had such nonsense problems were they didnt update the docs, or linked to old docs, and confused the hell out of me |
| 14:05.32 | jleclanche | https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/intro/tutorial01/ this is the official tutorial |
| 14:05.44 | Kalroth | yup, also what i'm following |
| 14:05.48 | nevcairiel | but for "dev", which may already be using entirely different things. :D |
| 14:06.11 | Kalroth | my first attempted ended up with a "fragmented headers in all your fucking files" error and webserver permanently 500'ed on me |
| 14:06.13 | jleclanche | django is very good about backwards compatibility; the most recent is usually the best bet |
| 14:06.59 | jleclanche | Kalroth: what do you have now and where are you trying to get next? |
| 14:07.32 | Kalroth | right now i'm editing urls.py, of them anyways - i'm hoping dreamhost publishes my apps directly to the internet |
| 14:08.40 | jleclanche | so the way django is structured is you have a root urls.py which is the entry point to your app. for a hello world app you can dispense of any "child urls.py" and just keep the one |
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| 14:09.46 | Kalroth | also i think i need to restart python all the time, often it just doesn't load changes |
| 14:10.02 | jleclanche | what are you developing on? |
| 14:10.11 | Kalroth | http://wiki.dreamhost.com/Django |
| 14:10.25 | jleclanche | are you deving on the server itself? thats super impractical |
| 14:10.30 | Kalroth | yeah, i'm on the server |
| 14:11.25 | jleclanche | fuck |
| 14:11.31 | jleclanche | why are you with these people? |
| 14:11.37 | jleclanche | they have a horrible setup |
| 14:12.15 | jleclanche | yeah this is horrible |
| 14:13.27 | jleclanche | Kalroth: are you able to get another host? |
| 14:13.43 | jleclanche | because if you are, get a digitalocean droplet and set up a virtualenv on it; I can help you through it |
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| 16:20.32 | fewyn | man i wish i had a bigger SSD so i could move it back onto it |
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| 16:20.53 | nevcairiel | "it" ? |
| 16:20.59 | TC-Work | ^ |
| 16:21.00 | fewyn | wow |
| 16:21.12 | fewyn | i somehow ate a word |
| 16:21.15 | fewyn | when writing that |
| 16:21.22 | TC-Work | omnomicon |
| 16:22.37 | nevcairiel | unless you are installing a huge expansion-like patch, the difference isnt all that great in my experience |
| 16:22.45 | nevcairiel | assuming a decent hdd |
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| 16:23.21 | fewyn | because of other games i'm working with atm i've moved wow off my ssd to my WD black hdd |
| 16:24.05 | TC-Work | I have no games installed to my SSD |
| 16:24.16 | fewyn | i can only fit about one |
| 16:24.19 | nevcairiel | If I play one very actively, I sometimes move one over |
| 16:24.20 | TC-Work | it's all done off other HDD's and I have no issues. |
| 16:24.34 | nevcairiel | just cause I have the space |
| 16:24.39 | fewyn | right now i have archeage on the ssd |
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| 16:44.21 | karl_w_w | wow is the only game on my ssd even though I'm not playing it right now |
| 16:44.49 | karl_w_w | I could fit 1 other comfortably |
| 16:45.23 | karl_w_w | and that 1 might be watch dogs |
| 16:47.10 | karl_w_w | ooh look, watch dogs is 64 bit only, that's gonna sting for some |
| 16:51.52 | TC-Work | watch dogs does looks sexy, but I am not sure I feel the need to pre-order it. |
| 16:52.18 | karl_w_w | need? |
| 16:52.32 | karl_w_w | oh |
| 16:52.45 | karl_w_w | i thought you said the need to pre-order it :P |
| 16:53.08 | karl_w_w | considering the review embargo date is launch date, I certainly won't be pre-ordering |
| 16:53.49 | karl_w_w | i made no sense on the need part, ignore me |
| 16:54.54 | TC-Work | I did say that....what the hell are you smoking? |
| 16:55.35 | karl_w_w | ok I'll explain again, I don't even know what I thought I read, but I thought you were saying pre-ordering is a requirement |
| 16:55.44 | TC-Work | Oh. |
| 16:56.26 | TC-Work | That would be interesting. Super hype a game then say it can only ever be purchased before the game comes out, it will never be sold after. |
| 16:57.08 | karl_w_w | it would probably work once on a well-known franchise, it would be a crap game, then it would never work again |
| 16:57.22 | TC-Work | No, make sure it was very well done. |
| 16:57.34 | TC-Work | and offer refunds |
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| 17:13.45 | Shirik | http://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/263oba/shhhh_shhhh_its_okay_just_stop/ |
| 17:15.24 | Dagmar | Someone needs to just go ahead and shoot that thing |
| 17:15.35 | Dagmar | It's cruel to make it suffer like that. |
| 17:22.17 | bluworkcow | http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/9231-The-Amazing-Spider-Man-2?hq=1 |
| 17:22.22 | bluworkcow | hehehehhehe |
| 17:22.34 | bluworkcow | he basically calls peter parker some gay dude in tights :P |
| 17:27.52 | nevcairiel | that guy sure talks fast |
| 17:27.59 | TC-Work | ... |
| 17:28.05 | TC-Work | zero. puncutaion. |
| 17:28.25 | TC-Work | that would have worked better if I spelled it correctly |
| 17:28.32 | TC-Work | but you get the idea. |
| 17:29.25 | Dagmar | Probably the most brutally honest and cynical reviewer out there |
| 17:29.52 | TC-Work | Only game he ever flat out gave praise to was portal. |
| 17:30.00 | TC-Work | even portal 2 got some crap. |
| 17:30.10 | Dagmar | Basically, if he doesn't pan it, it's going to be a great game |
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| 17:50.00 | jleclanche | TC-Work: check the minecraft review too |
| 17:50.15 | jleclanche | I love the way he says MINECRAAAAFTTT. |
| 17:50.44 | jleclanche | Its pretty much exactly the same way I say it when I find out I cant have more than 3 people online on my 32gb ram server |
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| 18:00.49 | Fisker | hey Lopeppeppy |
| 18:01.18 | Lopeppeppy | Heya, Fisker. |
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| 18:29.12 | karl_w_w | http://esportsexpress.com/2014/05/valve-announces-100-million-stretch-goal/ |
| 19:01.05 | karl_w_w | your politicians in the americas with their coke habits and dick pics have nothing on this classy guy: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/with-a-nod-and-a-wink-pm-tony-abbott-eyes-off-his-vocal-critics-20140521-38p5n.html |
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| 19:30.52 | airtonix | what an unglorified waste of sexual flid tranfers and birthing pains that guy is |
| 19:41.56 | TC-Work | Anyone know if there is a way to combine syntax highlighting in pycharm? |
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| 19:50.32 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO^^ (~A-KO@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
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| 20:17.03 | Shirik | http://docs.oracle.com/javase/8/javafx/api/javafx/scene/doc-files/cssref.html#intro |
| 20:17.10 | Shirik | "Never has styling a Java UI been easier than with JavaFX and Cascading Style Sheets (CSS). Going from one theme to another, or customizing the look of just one control, can all be done through CSS. To the novice, this may be unfamiliar territory; but the learning curve is not that great. Give CSS styling a try and the benefits will soon be apparent. You can also split the design and development workflow, or defer |
| 20:17.11 | Shirik | design until later in the project. Up to the last minute changes, and even post-deployment changes, in the UI's look can be achieved through JavaFX CSS." |
| 20:17.17 | Shirik | Take the first word of each sentence. |
| 20:18.00 | mikma | where's my powers to kickban you, shirik |
| 20:18.05 | Shirik | :( |
| 20:21.00 | Unkle | *stab* |
| 20:21.46 | Unkle | That's going to be ear-worming it's way through my day now. |
| 20:23.35 | mikma | http://i.imgur.com/LbftVN5.png |
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| 20:43.34 | airtonix | you will join the dark side |
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| 20:46.36 | Amarande | airtonix: just remember to mention the standard disclaimer ... most particularly the fact that the cookies are for new corruptees only, none for returning customers :) |
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| 21:08.17 | mikma | shirik: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b5f_1399921016 |
| 21:09.02 | Shirik | wtf... |
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| 21:13.37 | Gnarfoz | for anyone interested, Wildstar realms are up for a bit |
| 21:15.47 | TC-Work | up for a bit of what? |
| 21:15.53 | Gnarfoz | time |
| 21:31.48 | mikma | http://www.break.com/video/russian-trucker-using-apple-maps-2612139 |
| 21:35.19 | Amarande | pity I already play too many MMOs, or I'd probably give wildstar a whirl :S |
| 21:35.32 | Amarande | however, I already juggle SW:TOR, WoW, and LOTRO, and have friends wanting me to pick up FFXIV |
| 21:35.41 | Amarande | and as Monty Python classically put it ... Five is right out! |
| 21:38.00 | Jamash | My standard answer is "is it free to play yet?" |
| 21:38.18 | g0urra | how original |
| 21:38.26 | Jamash | your face is original |
| 21:38.35 | g0urra | thank you |
| 21:39.00 | Jamash | you're welcome |
| 21:39.33 | Jamash | I don't understand how anyone can release a subscription mmo these days |
| 21:39.49 | g0urra | because they release a good game that is worth the money? |
| 21:40.09 | foxlit | “I don’t understand why people buy games anymore. Candy Crush is free, yaknow?" |
| 21:40.17 | Jamash | g0urra: yes but is it? |
| 21:40.22 | Jamash | as in, is it better than wow? |
| 21:40.30 | foxlit | wow is, as you might’ve heard, dead. |
| 21:40.35 | Jamash | snrk |
| 21:40.42 | g0urra | it died after wotlk |
| 21:40.44 | g0urra | RIP |
| 21:40.51 | Jamash | dead as in higher numbers than every other subscription mmo put together, right? |
| 21:41.05 | foxlit | content-wise, it’s hibernating until the next infusion of quest greens. |
| 21:42.00 | Jamash | yes, but what are the numbers? |
| 21:42.19 | foxlit | who cares? If you’re going to launch a subscription-based mmo, now’s a good time. |
| 21:42.34 | g0urra | SE figured that out |
| 21:42.36 | foxlit | I’d trade the no-content subscription to wow for something new for a few months. |
| 21:42.58 | Jamash | ah, serial monogamy |
| 21:43.03 | Jamash | I can see that |
| 21:43.20 | Jamash | g0urra: SE? |
| 21:43.25 | g0urra | SquareEnix |
| 21:43.27 | Jamash | oh |
| 21:43.59 | Jamash | they have japan, so they're guaranteed a certain minimum subscriber base |
| 21:44.30 | Jamash | well actually maybe not with competition from monster hunter and DQ |
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| 21:49.04 | Amarande | Jamash: I tend to think the optimal idea is probably how LOTRO and SW:TOR are, the "free to play with sub option" model |
| 21:49.32 | Jamash | Amarande: Yeah |
| 21:49.46 | Jamash | Wildstar is also doing the EVE "play to pay" model |
| 21:51.45 | TC-Work | They have competition from Dairy Queen? |
| 21:52.21 | g0urra | except you will (most likely) not have to play 9-5 to replace subscription |
| 21:52.56 | Jamash | TC-Work: dragon quest |
| 21:53.07 | TC-Work | It was a joke Jamash. |
| 21:53.14 | Jamash | TC-Work: couldn't tell |
| 21:53.24 | TC-Work | Jamash: So I see. |
| 21:54.08 | kd3 | meh, assuming blizz keeps stalling with alpha, I'm planning on playing wildstar for at least a month |
| 21:54.12 | kd3 | beta seemed interesting |
| 21:59.09 | nevcairiel | they did kinda admit to want to stall until garrisons are integrated into the leveling experience |
| 22:01.05 | Amarande | interesting ... so ideally for the garrison feature you want to level a brand new character? |
| 22:01.12 | kd3 | no |
| 22:01.14 | Amarande | or are we talking just the 90-100 leveling bracket? |
| 22:01.16 | kd3 | 90-100 |
| 22:01.36 | Amarande | ah. yeah, makes sense, since they want to sell boosts to 90 heh |
| 22:02.05 | Amarande | I still don't think that will be very popular :S |
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| 22:10.42 | jleclanche | Arrowmaster: "Son, you go to Church?" |
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| 22:19.07 | pompy | "The Steam In-Home Streaming feature is now available for everyone. Find out more athttp://steampowered.com/streaming" |
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