| 00:01.36 | TC-Work | anyone know why kde's dolphin will not let you tab-complete files? |
| 00:24.57 | kd3 | those of you trying to do wildstar name reservations, they just reopened it |
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| 00:40.52 | TC-Work | I don't think there is anything I want to reserve. |
| 00:41.43 | TC-Work | On the otherhand, I did seem to manage to break thje reservation so that is awesome |
| 00:42.25 | TC-Work | nvm |
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| 01:07.04 | jleclanche | Fuck lxml and every bad API in the world. |
| 01:11.58 | Neffi | Fuck XML altogether ;) |
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| 01:25.46 | kd3 | oh wow. I've finally got wildstar downloaded and I'm getting 3fps |
| 01:25.47 | kd3 | ugh |
| 01:26.15 | Torhal | Apparently the latest update has some rather horrific UI bugs. |
| 01:26.42 | Torhal | kd3: Here's one: if self.wndMain:GetData() == guildOwner and self.wndMain and self.wndMain:IsValid() then |
| 01:27.10 | Torhal | Second check should be the first check... |
| 01:39.01 | TC-Work | Cairenn: Is mmoui doing a wildstar site? |
| 01:39.34 | Cairenn | Not at present |
| 01:40.09 | Amarande | hrm. random ponderings |
| 01:40.20 | Amarande | is Fury of Frostmourne typed damage, and is it one of the magic damage types? |
| 01:40.43 | Amarande | Cairenn, did I see you on Jedi Covenant SW:TOR server the other day BTW? There was a character on Fleet by your name :) Or was that just someone with the same name |
| 01:41.05 | Cairenn | I haven't played Swtor in ages now |
| 01:41.11 | Cairenn | so must have been someone else |
| 01:41.42 | Amarande | as for the random pondering, we were talking about finite damage instakills in guild on TOR just now |
| 01:42.02 | Amarande | and how in WOD characters seem likely to be able to survive Fury, given that tanks are already at 600K+ HP and it only does ... 800K, if I remember my raiding days (at least on 10N) |
| 01:42.18 | Amarande | then it occurred to me ... could a DK take it even now, with AMS? |
| 01:42.26 | Amarande | or is it non-typed damage, heh |
| 01:57.48 | Amarande | as for how that topic came up, that would have to be because, without spoiling things, the Jedi Consular storyline in SW:TOR ends with one of the most ridiculous boss fights known to man :P |
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| 02:02.30 | Amarande | actually, something has just occurred to me now in MMOs ... Grouping makes you weak :| |
| 02:02.42 | Amarande | or at least, it makes you weak when you're soloing |
| 02:05.44 | Amarande | reason: grouping gets you used to learning your rotation and role as you're supposed to be focusing on when you're grouping. when you do that, it's easy to get so focused on those particular abilities that you start to lose sight of the other abilities your class has ... the ones you don't use in group content, but which can be lifesavers solo :) |
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| 03:23.39 | pompy | Arrowmaster: http://www.buzzfeed.com/awesomer/times-cards-against-humanity-was-too-real sorry man ;) |
| 03:43.01 | Thunder_Child | I'm so glad that chromes keyboard shortcuts fail on google.com |
| 04:14.34 | Arrowmaster | Cairenn: http://24.media.tumblr.com/3e96ff84c6f0744aaaed14b620045fa9/tumblr_n5nay3N5I71s02vreo1_400.gif |
| 04:24.37 | Cairenn | Arrowmaster: lol |
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| 04:41.01 | Mr_Rabies | soo |
| 04:41.09 | Mr_Rabies | are there any addons to pre-squish everything |
| 05:02.23 | pompy | The WoD beta currently in development. :P |
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| 05:06.27 | Thunder_Child | ~ping |
| 05:06.27 | purl | ~pong |
| 05:12.03 | Semlar | i actually wrote an addon once that squished all the numbers in the interface but it tainted *everything* |
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| 05:18.34 | Semlar | Mr_Rabies: http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info20957-NerfEverything.html |
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| 05:28.04 | Neffi | Oh god Semlar that taints all the things |
| 05:28.24 | Neffi | Oh if I had read up a few lines I could've dispensed with reading the source |
| 05:28.26 | Semlar | i'm not even going to look at the code i know how bad it is |
| 05:40.09 | Xuerian | So do we have a #wsuidev channel or something? |
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| 06:23.40 | Stanzilla | Xuerian: #wildstartuidev |
| 06:23.46 | Stanzilla | Xuerian: #wildstaruidev |
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| 11:02.29 | airtonix | Mr_Rabies: are you just looking to save screenspace? |
| 11:03.18 | Mr_Rabies | partially |
| 11:03.34 | Mr_Rabies | and also just to go ahead and play around with it to get used to what i'll see, more or less, based on the alpha numbers |
| 11:04.33 | airtonix | hey so wildstar now means tron like interface themes are appropriate |
| 11:04.47 | airtonix | flashy blinky all the things |
| 11:06.24 | airtonix | Cairenn: over the last two/three years have you actually deleted addons from wowinterface? |
| 11:06.30 | airtonix | in a clean up? |
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| 12:12.56 | airtonix | Kantfolo Didnreed |
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| 14:03.12 | airtonix | http://www.realmofthemadgod.com/ |
| 14:13.45 | Maldivia | to the Norwegians: happy 200th constitution anniversary... to the Americans: happy 60th anniversary on the brown v board of educations ruling... and to everyone: happy 10th IDAHOT |
| 14:14.21 | nevcairiel | norwegians and americans dont do IDAHOT? |
| 14:17.56 | Maldivia | they are covered by "everyone"... note the lack of "else" |
| 14:23.42 | nevcairiel | i see |
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| 17:23.56 | Cairenn | airtonix: from time to time |
| 17:24.45 | Cairenn | Normally we just move them to outdated. But compilations, for example, we just poof if they've gone forever without an update. |
| 17:43.23 | kd3 | oh wow at what happened at emory... |
| 17:43.40 | kd3 | http://it.emory.edu/windows7-incident/ |
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| 17:56.40 | nevcairiel | sounds like a flawed system if you can even cause servers to format themselves on a click of a button |
| 17:56.48 | nevcairiel | perfect target to hack! |
| 17:57.16 | VIad | in Java, if I have class A, then I create class B and extend with A, is it possible to have an object of class A but convert it to class B? |
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| 17:57.34 | nevcairiel | thats not how object oriented works |
| 17:57.44 | VIad | perhaps java had some api for this |
| 17:58.19 | nevcairiel | an B is an A, but not every A is a B |
| 17:59.16 | Iriel | If you’re saying you have class A, and class B extends A |
| 17:59.41 | Iriel | Then from an implementation point of view the closest you can get is to give B a constructor which takes an A as a parameter, and makes a B using the values from the A. |
| 18:00.03 | Iriel | But you end up with a new B object, the original A object is still there and still only an A |
| 18:02.09 | karl_w_w | http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8862247/Bullied-schoolchildren-told-to-act-less-gay.html sometimes old news is the most incredible |
| 18:02.41 | airtonix | kd3. education instituion with spelling mistakes... not surprised they a) rely on microsoft b) can't use puppet/chef properly. |
| 18:03.14 | airtonix | oh even worse... ghost |
| 18:03.36 | airtonix | also html4 |
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| 18:04.38 | airtonix | The wise heart seeks knowledge |
| 18:04.45 | airtonix | uh hu |
| 18:05.11 | Semlar | isn't that usually the brain's job |
| 18:13.54 | foxlit | "The UI team informed me that they also protected “SetUIVisibility(false)” while in combat. Add-Ons can still use "SetUIVisibility(true)" while in combat, but you cannot toggle it." |
| 18:14.50 | foxlit | Amusing. If it actually worked that way (which it doesn’t in 18273), it’s like calling attention to an obvious gaping hole and saying “exploit this!” |
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| 18:18.38 | foxlit | But hey, if it actually ships that way, I have an excuse to write some code :P |
| 18:25.08 | Fisker | Don't do it |
| 18:40.03 | airtonix | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RT55lch6y_U |
| 18:41.54 | airtonix | there's a grace in this trailer i've not seen since the closing battle in GITS 1 |
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| 19:00.54 | airtonix | Fisker: http://store.steampowered.com/app/238460/ |
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| 19:12.19 | Amarande | Heh, so reading about the cvar change ... two things come to mind. One scary, one is probably going to be me finally catching on to what WoW is really all about in terms of Blizzard's design intent :S |
| 19:12.52 | nevcairiel | design intent being not allowing bots? |
| 19:13.19 | nevcairiel | or other automated game play helpers |
| 19:14.04 | Amarande | nevcairiel: well, looking at how the DBM guy is up in arms, it leaves me with the thought that basically, there are *exactly two* real priorities to Blizzard at this point, and everything else is secondary |
| 19:14.15 | Amarande | a) the *latest* raid instance, and b) PvP, most particularly rated battleground and arena PvP |
| 19:14.33 | nevcairiel | the dbm guy is a bit of a moron, he didn't have a single clue in that forum thread |
| 19:14.43 | mikma | what's going on, eh? |
| 19:14.55 | Amarande | the only time anything else matters as much, it seems, would be perhaps the leveling content when an expansion is first released, and occasional little bits like the 1-60 world revamp for cata |
| 19:15.01 | kd3 | http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/12674209697 |
| 19:15.04 | kd3 | mikma ^ |
| 19:15.11 | Amarande | as for the scary thing: "It'd be interesting to hear if the server tracks our lockdown too and if there's ever a case where the server can think we're in lockdown and our client doesn't." |
| 19:15.22 | nevcairiel | i dont know how that omegal guy ever managed to build a successfull addon reading his posts |
| 19:15.41 | mikma | kd3: thank you |
| 19:15.51 | Amarande | scary, because if that *can* be the case, I wonder if that actually means we run a risk whenever we use any combat-affecting addons (because we could be seen as exploiting if this is possible :S) |
| 19:15.59 | airtonix | nevcairiel: i'm glad we both feel the same way about SuperAwesomeYOLOBossMawds |
| 19:16.20 | Amarande | nevcairiel: yeah, I did switch to Big Wigs last time I played |
| 19:16.21 | airtonix | dbm is dumb |
| 19:16.32 | Amarande | but yeah, there seems to also be a point made about how complicated Amber Shaper can get |
| 19:16.39 | karl_w_w | http://i.4cdn.org/b/1400343629805.jpg ohgod ohgod ohgod |
| 19:16.52 | Amarande | and really, how often in a raid boss battle do you have TIME to open up the interface config LOL |
| 19:17.09 | airtonix | all the time Amarande |
| 19:17.20 | kd3 | vehicle fights are rarely well-designed from an interface perspective |
| 19:17.50 | Amarande | kd3: hah tell me about it ... my UI always looks just lovely in regular situations, then when I'm in a vehicle fight it tends to look asstastic :) |
| 19:18.09 | nevcairiel | there is plenty outdoor vehicles you can go sit in and see how it behaves, ya know |
| 19:19.36 | kd3 | a good point was raised earlier... since /malygos/, have we ever had early access to vehicle mechanics in a boss fight? |
| 19:19.53 | Stanzilla | ulduar |
| 19:20.05 | nevcairiel | re-phrase, since wotlk |
| 19:20.24 | Stanzilla | they moved to extra action button stuff after that |
| 19:20.27 | nevcairiel | ulduars first boss was kinda fun |
| 19:20.35 | Stanzilla | never did a vehicle one again |
| 19:21.06 | nevcairiel | no mass-vehicle ones, but some fights have individual people that need to get into a vehicle at times |
| 19:21.48 | Stanzilla | can't remember one in cata or mop |
| 19:21.53 | Stanzilla | help me remember |
| 19:22.24 | kd3 | the one brought up in the thread--the amber monstrosity mechanic in HoF on amber shaper |
| 19:22.47 | Stanzilla | ah, right |
| 19:22.57 | kd3 | I'm sure there was one in cata too iirc |
| 19:23.11 | nevcairiel | i'm picturing one in cata, but i cant pin it down |
| 19:23.17 | Stanzilla | does mind control on nefarian count? |
| 19:24.11 | nevcairiel | for some reason helers never get to do the vehicles (if there is a choice), so i don't have big experience with those mechanics, must've slipped my mind |
| 19:24.30 | mikma | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpDZxrY2R-4 |
| 19:25.12 | Fisker | Does the abomination on putricide count? |
| 19:25.28 | nevcairiel | mass vehicles in raids are always a problem, many people just screw up their interface and wont get the bar or shit like that |
| 19:25.36 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: explanation is: he didn't write it, he's been keeping it alive for years now (dunno if he ever rewrote it) :P |
| 19:25.46 | airtonix | mikma: that was informative. |
| 19:26.18 | nevcairiel | Gnarfoz: so he is one of those people, poaching some half-abandoned successfull addon but not having a clue :D |
| 19:26.30 | Gnarfoz | I'm not going to go that far, but ~ |
| 19:26.35 | Amarande | nevcairiel: lately there seem to be a lot of large, ugly UI widgets for vehicle fights IIRC, and things like bartender don't seem to handle those cases with beauty heh |
| 19:26.36 | Gnarfoz | DBM isn't even the original name :D |
| 19:26.48 | Gnarfoz | (well, it was renamed a long time ago, but bleh ;-)) |
| 19:26.56 | airtonix | SlightlyInTheWayEnemyInformer |
| 19:27.01 | Amarande | I'm really not sure if there are any addons that do |
| 19:27.10 | Stanzilla | nevcairiel: MC on nef was healers, too |
| 19:27.14 | Stanzilla | but you didnt raid then |
| 19:27.22 | nevcairiel | i actually did nef! |
| 19:27.36 | Amarande | Fisker: the abomination was a buff, not a vehicle IIRC |
| 19:27.36 | mikma | airtonix: well thank karl_w_w ;) |
| 19:27.37 | nevcairiel | heroic even |
| 19:27.46 | Stanzilla | uh! |
| 19:27.48 | Amarande | actually a *de*buff, you had to be careful not to mistakenly cleanse it |
| 19:27.48 | nevcairiel | I had a guild for the first tier |
| 19:27.59 | nevcairiel | bwd and what was its name |
| 19:28.01 | nevcairiel | twilight something |
| 19:28.05 | kd3 | but you still had your normal abilities taken away and special vehicle abilities to use |
| 19:28.09 | Amarande | ICC was like the one time I actually got to do serious business raiding in WoW LOL |
| 19:28.15 | kd3 | even if it wasn't technically a vehicle.. what, the posessbar |
| 19:28.18 | Gnarfoz | is DBM's addon prefix still LVBM? ^^ |
| 19:28.30 | Gnarfoz | *addon comms |
| 19:28.59 | Amarande | kd3: speaking of that, there's something I've been noticing on wowhead with a few leveling fights, and wondering if it's actually kosher or if technically any of us who've taken such advice are guilty of being dirty cheaters |
| 19:29.02 | nevcairiel | Stanzilla: i dont really remember what this MC entailed though, i remember it was there, but its been sooo long |
| 19:29.18 | Stanzilla | nevcairiel: smash button while being grabbed towards a portal |
| 19:29.21 | Stanzilla | cancel in time or die |
| 19:29.22 | Amarande | there seem to be some quest specific fights where your *FIRST* action bar is replaced with the special abilities of a form and the usual abilities are not accessible |
| 19:29.32 | Amarande | a good example being the ones in Desolace where you are a Naga |
| 19:29.39 | nevcairiel | oh right, this crazy thing |
| 19:29.50 | Amarande | *however*, it's common knowledge on wowhead that if you have abilities bound to action bars that are not the first, you can still use them normally |
| 19:29.58 | Amarande | is that considered allowed, or is that an exploit? :S |
| 19:30.31 | nevcairiel | depends on the form, in this naga quest its not possible to use them, in other parts it automatically throws you out of the special form when you try |
| 19:30.32 | Amarande | (in particular, some of the naga form fights can make you need the hair club for draenei if you don't take advantage of it, it seems ...) |
| 19:31.19 | Amarande | nevcairiel: seems to depend on the abilities then, e.g. spells on the second action bar still work in naga form (again, common knowledge on wowhead, I'm more wondering if Blizzard likely has any particular beef with it) |
| 19:31.38 | Amarande | I'm guessing general consensus would be that if it *were* really an exploit it'd have been nerfed, and it doesn't seem to have, but :S |
| 19:31.59 | nevcairiel | why dont you do the quest for a couple hours and "exploit" it to find out! |
| 19:32.07 | nevcairiel | we'll report you to a GM for good measure |
| 19:33.10 | Semlar | it's true, all exploits must have already previously been nerfed |
| 19:33.11 | nevcairiel | Stanzilla: ah i remember now, as a healer you mostly canceled early while the dps tried to stack the damage buff on them like mad :p |
| 19:33.27 | Stanzilla | indeed |
| 19:33.33 | Amarande | Semlar: we're talking about content that has existed since cata, so there is a pretty strong tendency to figure that Blizzard meant for things to be like that |
| 19:33.38 | Stanzilla | shadow was so good on that fight |
| 19:33.44 | Stanzilla | double dip on the buff because +dmg and +heal |
| 19:33.47 | Gnarfoz | which lead to stacking moonkins \o/ :D |
| 19:33.55 | Gnarfoz | or was it cats? |
| 19:33.56 | Amarande | additionally, the fights are on the verge of heroic difficulty using the naga abilities alone :p |
| 19:33.58 | Stanzilla | cats |
| 19:33.59 | Gnarfoz | I don't recall, just druids |
| 19:34.01 | Stanzilla | but that was nerfed |
| 19:34.18 | Semlar | i definitely can't write an addon that can prevent you from casting a spell based on arbitrary conditions due to a bug that's existed for years |
| 19:34.30 | *** join/#wowuidev jleclanche (~adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 19:35.15 | Amarande | heh, that would have been awesome if we still had my old A-team from ICC |
| 19:35.20 | Amarande | we had like, four druids in that group |
| 19:35.35 | Amarande | I still remember the wailing and gnashing of teeth when battle rez was nerfed to one per battle for the entire group and not just per caster |
| 19:37.09 | Semlar | soulstone the entire raid! |
| 19:37.41 | Amarande | Semlar, I think you'd have to have everyone be a warlock to do that |
| 19:37.49 | Amarande | although the way soulstones did it was kind of a kick in the balls |
| 19:37.51 | nevcairiel | i remember the good old days in molten core when we had a paladin stay out of combat to rezz people |
| 19:37.57 | Semlar | no, you used to be able to have a warlock soulstone you outside of the group |
| 19:38.19 | Semlar | so your entire raid could go in soulstoned |
| 19:38.19 | Amarande | I'm sure it was fun as hell for every raid group the first time they learned that innocent seeming soulstone was now considered their one battle rez and locked out the druids' |
| 19:38.25 | *** join/#wowuidev oscarucb (~oscarucb@cpe-71-64-17-62.columbus.res.rr.com) |
| 19:38.27 | nevcairiel | what if the warlock is on slot #26 of the raid? |
| 19:38.52 | Amarande | nevcairiel: now that IS new territory, I don't think I've heard of anyone trying shenanigans based on that |
| 19:39.11 | Semlar | i'm pretty sure the buff is removed when you enter the instance |
| 19:39.14 | Amarande | i.e., taking advantage of the fact that there can exist raid members who do not enter the instance, and you have room for at least fifteen such in all current raids |
| 19:39.17 | Semlar | i don't really know though |
| 19:39.21 | nevcairiel | doesnt matter anymore anyway with the restrictions we have today |
| 19:39.23 | Stanzilla | yes Semlar |
| 19:39.26 | Stanzilla | when combat starts |
| 19:39.41 | Semlar | i figured it was something like that |
| 19:40.01 | Semlar | anyway, shaman can still self rez without it counting against you |
| 19:40.07 | Stanzilla | that was implemente in ToTC |
| 19:40.11 | Stanzilla | d |
| 19:40.29 | nevcairiel | yeah for shamans thats considered a personal thing, and not a raid combat rezz |
| 19:40.34 | Stanzilla | ankh is a dmg cd! |
| 19:40.42 | Amarande | mind you, that's always the issue with 'exploits' ... it's difficult to judge whether something is really to be considered such a thing or if it's just things being more beneficial than you'd expect |
| 19:41.01 | Amarande | and even more difficult, I would imagine, to judge whether Blizzard considers it cheating to take advantage of a particular thing that you're allowed in-game to do but seems a little cheap |
| 19:41.07 | nevcairiel | pre-fight soulstone has the advantage at least that you can choose who gets it, but of course an actual combat rezz is more flexible |
| 19:41.28 | Amarande | I still remember the eternal debates in Diablo II as to whether double-bonused ethereal armours were considered cheating or not |
| 19:41.45 | nevcairiel | if the game drops them, how can it be cheating :p |
| 19:41.53 | Amarande | nevcairiel: they don't *drop* per se, is the thing |
| 19:42.14 | Semlar | suddenly much more questionable |
| 19:42.17 | Amarande | the thing was that in 1.10, there was a bug with upgrading ethereal items in the Horadric Cube to exceptional/elite |
| 19:42.33 | Semlar | and now we're back to exploit |
| 19:42.48 | Amarande | basically, what would happen would be, they would SUCK, because they would stay ethereal and irreparable, but the eth bonus wasn't reapplied to the upgraded version so they had the same damage/defence as the non-eth version |
| 19:42.59 | Amarande | sooo ... in 1.11, they fixed that, but a new behaviour foible occurred with the Cube |
| 19:43.34 | nevcairiel | if you abuse a known bug to get an advantage, thats obviously exploiting |
| 19:43.38 | Amarande | now (presumably the game had it at this point designed as "if generating an eth item in cube, add the eth bonus to said item during generation") |
| 19:44.10 | Semlar | what, you mean like reforging an item at the enchanter, not liking the results and relogging to prevent it from increasing the cost? |
| 19:44.16 | Amarande | what happened was, if you used the recipe to add sockets to an item in the cube, and did so with armour, it would add 50% defence AGAIN to it |
| 19:44.34 | Amarande | Semlar: it's more like, ethereal armour in D2 has a 50% increased base defence over the regular version |
| 19:44.54 | Semlar | you should see how many people argue that macroing actions with your mouse, keyboard or autoit isn't an exploit |
| 19:45.05 | Amarande | now, in 1.10, they added a Cube recipe to upgrade unique and rare items to Exceptional or Elite tier to give them more damage/defence |
| 19:45.16 | Amarande | actually, I believe it did work right for eth weapons ... it was armour where there were problems |
| 19:45.38 | Amarande | like I said, you upgraded eth armour? it forgot to add on that 50% base bonus, so you got the same as the normal version but less durability and no ability to repair -> suck |
| 19:45.52 | Amarande | in 1.11, they fixed it so you get the proper 50% bonus on upgradeds |
| 19:46.03 | Amarande | BUT (this didn't happen in 1.10), if you socketed eth armour, it re-added the 50% bonus |
| 19:46.31 | Amarande | e.g., let's say armour had a 400 base def. eth would be 600 base def. in 1.10, still 600 after cube-socketing ... in 1.11, it would shoot up to 900, because 50% was added again |
| 19:47.05 | Amarande | there was a huge debate on the Amazon Basin (a clan I belonged to where we stuck strictly to legit stuff and wouldn't even touch the duped and botted gear that was all over D2 or use any cheats) |
| 19:47.08 | Amarande | as to whether this was legit or not |
| 19:47.24 | airtonix | oh ok |
| 19:47.33 | Amarande | (made even more of an issue by the fact that this would *always* happen when you used the cube to socket ethereal armour ... as in there was no way to not have it do that) |
| 19:48.03 | airtonix | you should make more room in your head for things "not-wow" |
| 19:48.16 | airtonix | it's a wasted talent |
| 19:48.35 | nevcairiel | hey airtonix, d2 is not-wow |
| 19:48.40 | Semlar | how dare you, there's plenty of room in my head |
| 19:48.50 | airtonix | that's what she said |
| 19:48.57 | Amarande | what's made murkier is that sometimes the term 'exploit' has been used in MMO patch notes to refer to obviously benign activity that nonetheless it was decided needed nerfing |
| 19:48.59 | Semlar | it's practically empty |
| 19:49.32 | Amarande | e.g., when it's decided that LOS tactics against certain bosses are too powerful, you often see "a line of sight exploit has been nerfed" or something like that |
| 19:50.56 | Amarande | but that leads to its own issues due to overload of a word ... now there are exploits and exploits ... on the one hand OP tactics that are simply going to get nerfed some day (if it's in relevant enough content), on the other hand cheatingish shenanigans that risk account action |
| 19:51.21 | Amarande | then that gives you that little nagging feeling ... "is using a tactic that seems OP going to get you in trouble, because you should've known it was too good to be true so it's really a cheat" |
| 19:52.13 | Amarande | you'd think there would be a definitive yardstick for it, but there are good reasons on the other hand that MMO makers do not set such |
| 19:55.11 | Amarande | Semlar: heh, that's a ponderable |
| 19:55.20 | Amarande | how much of our head's "diskspace" do we actually use during our lifetime, anyway? :) |
| 19:55.40 | Semlar | some more than others |
| 19:56.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Gethe (~quassel@99-20-204-72.lightspeed.tblltx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:56.35 | Amarande | like, do we use enough of it to the point that when us geeks and trivia buffs and other knowledge sponges grow old, we're going to have a lot more memory problems than others because we used up our synaptic connection supply and thus our memory is basically 'full'? :) |
| 19:57.23 | Semlar | i'm fairly sure that's not how it works |
| 19:57.43 | Semlar | your brain creates new pathways |
| 19:59.26 | airtonix | it's the pathways themselves that represent the knowledge... not the neurons themselves |
| 19:59.52 | Amarande | yeah, though it occurred to me if there's a limit on how many pathways a neuron is able to effectively participate in |
| 19:59.53 | Semlar | and i think you'd see more problems develop from not using your brain |
| 20:00.13 | airtonix | Amarande: it's not about how many pathways a neuron can handle |
| 20:00.33 | Amarande | in other words, if it would actually be possible to overload the pathways with knowledge such that there is no way to remember anything further new without having to forget something else |
| 20:00.35 | airtonix | the journey between two towns can take as many paths as you like |
| 20:00.43 | airtonix | each journey represents new knowledge |
| 20:00.57 | airtonix | but may touch two or more nodes |
| 20:00.58 | Semlar | you aren't going to overload your brain with too much knowledge |
| 20:01.00 | Amarande | since I do know that you never get any new neurons, at any rate |
| 20:01.02 | airtonix | this |
| 20:01.51 | airtonix | some pathways you've established for one thing, may some day help to create part of a pathway for more knowledge. serving both purposes |
| 20:02.14 | airtonix | which i suspect is why when you loose part of your brain |
| 20:02.32 | airtonix | the remaining parts can eventually take over and provide |
| 20:02.48 | Amarande | yeah, the brain is still not very well understood |
| 20:02.55 | airtonix | Amarande: i just make shit up as i go |
| 20:03.05 | airtonix | i have no idea what i'm talking about |
| 20:03.14 | Amarande | actually, things like psychiatric medication are a real example of that lack of understanding :) |
| 20:03.27 | Amarande | a lot of times, it's not really well understood at all just why it works, only that it works |
| 20:03.40 | Amarande | probably also why such stuff tends to be so fraught with basket cases of side effects |
| 20:06.00 | Amarande | anyway, is it correct that Blizzard really doesn't put much priority on anything other than the one latest raid instance and on (rated in particular) pvp, or would that be thinking entirely too gloomy? |
| 20:06.19 | Amarande | that's the kind of vibe I often tend to get when I read a lot of these things like the discussion of the cvars thing :S |
| 20:06.30 | Gnarfoz | same for him |
| 20:06.42 | Amarande | (e.g., Amber Shaper is old news now, whether it's still comfortable to fight it in an accustomed manner doesn't matter, kinda thing) |
| 20:09.23 | Amarande | I suppose the idea would be (as some would probably claim, especially the people who pooh-pooh the WoW story line recently) that the biggest thing now is the whole E-Sports thing, which means PvP is first and foremost |
| 20:10.11 | Amarande | sadly I'm not entirely sure if they're not right, given how it seems that such a large proportion of video games in general show that not much sells as well as good PvP |
| 20:11.00 | Amarande | (plus the number of PvE-focused MMOs that have had to switch to Free-to-Play to survive ... thinking what's still not gone that route. WoW, Eve, and FFXIV, in the main? And what's Eve? Yeah, primarily all about PvP) |
| 20:13.46 | Amarande | mind you, I do like the occasional battleground or SWTOR warzone, but I don't get the people that eat, sleep, drink, and breathe pvp |
| 20:16.01 | Amarande | and some parts of PvP seem like they're designed so you have to be far more hardcore than you have to be in PvE, too |
| 20:16.24 | Amarande | like arena. I've mostly never touched it, because I'm not sure, can you really enjoy arenas on a casual basis or do you basically *have to* be one of those people who lives for PvP to actually enjoy them? |
| 20:16.45 | Amarande | it certainly seems like you have to be the latter for your arena points to really be worthful, thanks to the rating req stuff |
| 20:27.52 | jleclanche | alright |
| 20:28.00 | jleclanche | i officially have to check my steam account before i buy stuff |
| 20:28.01 | jleclanche | https://mediacru.sh/ccVtMEfbrD5U |
| 20:29.36 | Amarande | jleclanche, you been buying games twice? :) |
| 20:29.54 | jleclanche | no these were probably in an older bundle i didnt pay attention to |
| 20:34.50 | Amarande | ah |
| 20:34.59 | Amarande | yeah, bundles can get fun there once you have a large collection, I'm sure :) |
| 20:36.00 | Fisker | I have 250 keys from bundles or so |
| 20:36.26 | jleclanche | Fisker: whats the best graphics card on the market below $500? |
| 20:36.32 | jleclanche | nvidia card* |
| 20:37.07 | nevcairiel | 780 probably, should be just below 500, the 780ti is probably above |
| 20:37.38 | jleclanche | how much is the 780ti right now? |
| 20:37.48 | jleclanche | ah, $700 |
| 20:37.49 | jleclanche | hmm |
| 20:38.09 | karl_w_w | http://i.4cdn.org/b/1400352771238.png holy shit that's funny |
| 20:38.10 | jleclanche | oh hey, it's 4 cents off on amazon, i gotta get it |
| 20:42.06 | jleclanche | nevcairiel: this is in my price range i suppose http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PNY-GTX-780-Ti-XLR8-Enthusiast-Edition-VCGGTX780T3XPB-Graphics-Cards-/261482637238 |
| 20:42.11 | jleclanche | since it ships from the US |
| 20:42.48 | jleclanche | Is it a good 780ti? I know nothing of how their branding works between asus/evga etc |
| 20:43.11 | nevcairiel | the card looks like a reference design, but why then call it enthusiast edition, i'm confused |
| 20:43.24 | jleclanche | *shrug* |
| 20:43.30 | jleclanche | ill just grab the one on amazon i guess |
| 20:43.44 | nevcairiel | maybe the image is wrong |
| 20:43.46 | nevcairiel | googles |
| 20:45.18 | jleclanche | nevcairiel: http://www.amazon.co.uk/MSI-780Ti-Gaming-PCIe-Graphics/dp/B00H7GAS1G vs http://www.amazon.co.uk/GeForce-DirectCU-Graphics-Express-DisplayPort/dp/B00HFMPMX6 ? |
| 20:45.28 | Primer | Anyone know if it's possible to make a weak aura load when in pandaria? Would one have to specify all the pandaria zones? |
| 20:46.35 | jleclanche | they look the same with completely different weights |
| 20:47.08 | nevcairiel | jleclanche: i've heard some good things about asus DirectCU coolers, so would probably favor that. also explains the extra weight, more copper |
| 20:47.15 | jleclanche | ahh |
| 20:47.59 | Amarande | jleclanche: far as I know, there's not much difference between the various models apart from factory overclocks and coolers |
| 20:48.13 | jleclanche | nevcairiel: maybe i should just go ahead and upgrade my mobo and cpu as well, its been a few years and at this point its probably my bottleneck |
| 20:48.16 | jleclanche | nevcairiel: advice? |
| 20:48.20 | Amarande | there are a few models (760, 770) where there are multiple video memory options but I'm not sure that's the case for the 780 |
| 20:48.41 | MiRai | EVGA offers a 6GB GTX 780 (non-Ti) |
| 20:49.01 | nevcairiel | intel just released a new chipset and new cpus just this week, which means either grab the latest and greatest, or get a deal on the previous |
| 20:49.20 | jleclanche | ah, nice |
| 20:51.29 | jleclanche | nevcairiel: cant find any news, which chipset is that? |
| 20:51.35 | MiRai | I doubt you'd use anywhere near 3GB on a normal GTX 780 if you were just playing solo, though... Unless you were using nvidia surround or were gaming in 4K with lots of AA |
| 20:51.56 | MiRai | in which case you'd likely need multiple 780s just to do that |
| 20:51.58 | nevcairiel | jleclanche: Z97/H97 are the new chipsets |
| 20:52.59 | Gnarfoz | (which are a rip-off, mostly, since the cpus didn't change) |
| 20:53.12 | nevcairiel | the chipsets have some nice new features though |
| 20:53.18 | MiRai | does Z97 support Devil's Canyon? |
| 20:53.32 | nevcairiel | if i were to build now, i would definitely get a Z97 board, even if i would get a "old" haswell cpu |
| 20:53.36 | MiRai | the Haswell refresh |
| 20:53.42 | Gnarfoz | yes, that's why they exist |
| 20:53.48 | jleclanche | nevcairiel: Im reading this: http://tech.firstpost.com/reviews/asus-z97-deluxe-motherboard-review-feature-rich-and-broadwell-ready-but-wait-before-you-buy-this-223909.html?utm_source=fp-footer |
| 20:54.26 | Gnarfoz | (well, that's why Intel is making you buy them, the Haswell refresh CPUs could just as well work on the 8-series boards, if Intel let them) |
| 20:54.29 | nevcairiel | Devil's Canyon is not the haswell refresh that was released last week, DC is the refresh of the K cpus which is to be released in 1-2 month or so |
| 20:54.43 | Gnarfoz | do *they* get any actual changes? |
| 20:54.45 | Gnarfoz | besides the TIM |
| 20:54.51 | MiRai | Haswell gets two refreshes? |
| 20:54.57 | MiRai | so close to each other? |
| 20:55.01 | Gnarfoz | read again? |
| 20:55.04 | nevcairiel | Gnarfoz: they moved the VRM in the refresh back to the board last i heard, which is why old chipset has no chance |
| 20:55.14 | Gnarfoz | not all models at the same time != two refreshes |
| 20:55.20 | MiRai | "Devil's Canyon is not the haswell refresh that was released last week," |
| 20:55.27 | jleclanche | nevcairiel: So, along with the card say my budget is $1200 for mobo + cpu, what would you get on that budget? |
| 20:55.28 | MiRai | which Haswell refresh was released last week? |
| 20:55.29 | nevcairiel | they just have two different codenames |
| 20:56.04 | Gnarfoz | the non-K cpus, apparently, from the rest of the sentence you quoted |
| 20:56.30 | jleclanche | nevcairiel: I'm OK skimping a bit on the cpu, but the mobo I make a point not to upgrade it too often |
| 20:56.39 | nevcairiel | not sure they actually had a codename, just "Haswell Refresh" |
| 20:56.50 | Fisker | They work on z98 |
| 20:56.54 | Fisker | Err |
| 20:56.57 | Fisker | Z87 |
| 20:57.15 | nevcairiel | jleclanche: these days you typically just replace both together, since they rarely are compatible more than one cpu generation :p |
| 20:57.36 | jleclanche | really? I thought the situation improved a lot |
| 20:57.40 | Gnarfoz | not for Intel |
| 20:57.57 | jleclanche | well either way Im replacing both together right now |
| 20:59.11 | jleclanche | I could just wait I guess |
| 20:59.12 | nevcairiel | then get a Z97 board with whatever features you want, I prefer ASUS for unknown reasons, and if you're into OC a 4770K (or wait a bit for the new OC-CPU in a month or so), or if you wouldn't OC anyway, get a 4970 .. best you can buy, and far below 1200 |
| 20:59.25 | Amarande | MiRai: yeah, 4K gaming with AA is a huge memory user |
| 20:59.43 | Amarande | It's why I wondered at one point if the Quadro K6000 would be the ultimate gamer's card at the moment (not that I can afford it, LOL) |
| 20:59.52 | MiRai | Yeah... that non-K refresh hardly seems to be a refresh of any sort. Just like moving from an old 2600K to a 2700K back during Sandy Bridge. |
| 20:59.52 | jleclanche | .. |
| 21:00.03 | Amarande | however, while it might seem so on first look, apparently PCI-E lacks the bandwidth to properly take advantage of that much video RAM |
| 21:00.04 | jleclanche | Amarande: no comment |
| 21:00.08 | MiRai | I've just been paying attention to DC stuff |
| 21:00.09 | Fisker | But why lies Gnarfoz ? |
| 21:00.19 | Amarande | jleclanche: primarily, because it has 12GB video RAM and is the only card atm that does |
| 21:00.26 | jleclanche | so? |
| 21:00.29 | jleclanche | its not built for gaming |
| 21:00.50 | nevcairiel | the haswell refresh of last week is just a matured production process which allows better binning and therefor slightly faster CPUs |
| 21:00.52 | MiRai | I think you'd be okay with a Titan Black... no need for full Quadro |
| 21:00.54 | jleclanche | lots of ram is useless if you dont back it up with the sort of performance gamers care about |
| 21:00.54 | nevcairiel | and Intel making money on that :p |
| 21:01.03 | Amarande | jleclanche: so the first thing I thought was "hm, how much AA could you get at 4k with that baby" |
| 21:01.21 | mikma | anti air? |
| 21:01.24 | nevcairiel | the CPUs are otherwise exactly the same |
| 21:01.25 | jleclanche | AA and resolution arent the only concerns of a 3d game, otherwise yes a quadro would be perfect |
| 21:05.09 | jleclanche | yeah okay, ill grab a 780ti and upgrade the rest maybe in a month |
| 21:06.19 | nevcairiel | rumored release date for the DC CPUs is second of june |
| 21:06.24 | jleclanche | mostly concerned the psu wouldnt do the job. It handles my gtx 480 fine but a TI with a new cpu and mobo would be concerning |
| 21:06.44 | nevcairiel | new CPUs dont actually require more power |
| 21:06.47 | nevcairiel | gpu might though |
| 21:07.02 | nevcairiel | how much power are we talking about? |
| 21:07.03 | MiRai | all depends on that 12V rail (or rails) |
| 21:07.20 | jleclanche | nevcairiel: i dont remember, I think i have 550 |
| 21:07.33 | nevcairiel | that should work out for one gpu |
| 21:08.23 | Amarande | jleclanche: Fermis were notorious power hogs, pretty sure 700 series should be just ducky |
| 21:08.35 | MiRai | nvidia recommends 600W system-wide for a 780Ti - http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-780-ti/specifications |
| 21:08.41 | MiRai | second entry from the bottom |
| 21:09.00 | MiRai | could be cutting it close /shrug |
| 21:09.20 | nevcairiel | yeah but they play those safe, if you don't run a 130W AMD power-leecher CPU, you should be fine |
| 21:09.32 | Amarande | nevcairiel: plus they have to assume a badly balanced PSU |
| 21:09.44 | Amarande | like, one that wastes stupid amounts of its power on the 5V rail when the 12V is what most people really need |
| 21:09.52 | jleclanche | i should actually check |
| 21:09.55 | jleclanche | it might be 500 |
| 21:10.07 | Amarande | I've seen even good-branded PSUs that blow like 40-50A on the 5V, if memory serves *headdesk* |
| 21:10.28 | jleclanche | ah no its 550, okay |
| 21:10.43 | Amarande | what actually still uses the 5v much anymore, besides drives and usb? |
| 21:10.58 | Amarande | CPU's 12V, so's graphics card |
| 21:11.47 | nevcairiel | many low-power consumers use that instead |
| 21:12.20 | nevcairiel | not much stuff you connect directly, but on the mainboard or through pcie |
| 21:18.12 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 21:29.45 | Neffi | 780 Ti sip around 250W at full load |
| 21:29.51 | Neffi | jleclanche: what PSU do you have? |
| 21:30.32 | Neffi | I read into it recently, as I was curious if a 780 Ti could get by in a smff build. A Haswell and a single 780 Ti should fit comfortably within a *good* 450 W |
| 21:31.37 | jleclanche | Neffi: corsair 550W |
| 21:31.41 | jleclanche | dont know the model |
| 21:31.42 | Neffi | you're fine |
| 21:32.14 | Neffi | As long as you're not looking to beat any OC records and up your voltages to their absolute limit |
| 21:32.25 | MiRai | You should look at what review sites report as system-wide (from the wall) wattage in their reviews. |
| 21:32.32 | MiRai | Anandtech shows just over 550W - http://anandtech.com/show/7492/the-geforce-gtx-780-ti-review/15 |
| 21:32.36 | Neffi | In fact, you should have plenty of headroom to get a very good overclock on both GPU and CPUI |
| 21:32.38 | MiRai | I didn't look into all the specifics though |
| 21:33.02 | Neffi | MiRai: That confused me too. You're reading the SLI one. |
| 21:33.04 | MiRai | but don't use Furmark as a benchmark for power draw |
| 21:33.09 | Neffi | The reading for a single card is 372 on that chart |
| 21:33.09 | MiRai | Neffi: Ahh heh |
| 21:33.19 | MiRai | good catch |
| 21:33.40 | Neffi | And that's at the wall, not factoring in what's being burned off as heat in the PSU, so the actual load is less than 372 (shave about 10-15% off if they're using a decent PSU) |
| 21:34.09 | Neffi | They're also using a 6-core CPU, so that's chugging a bit more than a quad core HAswell |
| 21:34.17 | MiRai | I have too many monitors to keep track of (this is my excuse) |
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| 22:13.39 | hexed | dumb question, how do i add text to a scrolling message frame? blah:AddMessage gives me an error and i cant find anything on the web about it |
| 22:14.11 | Neffi | hexed: what is the error? |
| 22:17.28 | kd3 | oh boy, just got the letter. jury duty. |
| 22:17.52 | hexed | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:18.44 | kd3 | are you actually creating a (Scrolling)MessageFrame? |
| 22:18.51 | Neffi | hexed: The frame may not be a ScrollingMessageFrame. Did you create it, or is it an existing frame? (If so give me the name of it) |
| 22:19.10 | Neffi | Actually just give me your code. http://codepag.org |
| 22:19.27 | Neffi | hexed: http://codepad.org |
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| 22:19.57 | hexed | kk sec |
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| 22:24.15 | hexed | http://codepad.org/VSurAfDb |
| 22:24.37 | hexed | if its a mess, im just messing around testing stuff lol |
| 22:25.50 | Neffi | hexed: ScrollFrame is not the same thing. That's entirely different |
| 22:25.56 | Neffi | You want ScrollingMessageFrame |
| 22:26.21 | hexed | ah that makes sense |
| 22:26.48 | Neffi | Or rather if you're looking to have a scrollable frame that you can add messages to like a list (see: guild members page), you probably want to figure out FauxScrollFrame template |
| 22:27.22 | Neffi | ScrollingMessageFrame is like the text that appears in center screen when you try to cast a spell you can't (the red error text). |
| 22:27.42 | hexed | well i want to just make a simple frame that opens up to display loot but from everything ive read to use links in it, i need to use a scrollingmessageframe or a simplehtml frame |
| 22:27.55 | hexed | so ive been trying to find the easiest way to go about it |
| 22:28.25 | Neffi | It displays the loot in a scrollable list? Then no, you don't want either of those two. You want a FauxScrollFrame |
| 22:28.46 | hexed | ah ok ill do some research on it, thanks for the help. |
| 22:28.52 | Neffi | They're sort of a bitch to work with, so I've almost entirely avoided them. You'll have to read up on how they work. I can't help you out much |
| 22:29.25 | Neffi | If you're not already aware, you can see the code that makes up the default UI, to get a sense of how Blizzard uses these frames |
| 22:29.27 | Neffi | ~framexml |
| 22:29.28 | purl | Blizzard's UI for WoW. Export code/art from the client by using the wow.exe -console or open 'World of Warcraft.app' --args -console after game loads press ~ and enter commands "ExportInterfaceFiles code" and "ExportInterfaceFiles art" (must be used on login screen); or view it online at http://github.com/tekkub/wow-ui-source , http://wowprogramming.com/utils/xmlbrowser or http://wow.go-hero.net/framexml . |
| 22:29.53 | hexed | yeah ive been checking it out when i get super lost lol |
| 22:30.19 | Neffi | no, purl, framexml is <reply>Blizzard's UI for WoW. Export code/art from the client by using the wow.exe -console or open 'World of Warcraft.app' --args -console after game loads press ~ and enter commands "ExportInterfaceFiles code" and "ExportInterfaceFiles art" (must be used on login screen); or view it online at http://github.com/tekkub/wow-ui-source , http://wowprogramming.com/utils/xmlbrowser or www.townlong-yak. |
| 22:30.19 | Neffi | com/framexml/ . |
| 22:30.35 | Neffi | purl no, framexml is <reply>Blizzard's UI for WoW. Export code/art from the client by using the wow.exe -console or open 'World of Warcraft.app' --args -console after game loads press ~ and enter commands "ExportInterfaceFiles code" and "ExportInterfaceFiles art" (must be used on login screen); or view it online at http://github.com/tekkub/wow-ui-source , http://wowprogramming.com/utils/xmlbrowser or www.townlong-yak. |
| 22:30.35 | purl | okay, Neffi |
| 22:30.35 | Neffi | com/framexml/ . |
| 22:30.46 | Neffi | ~framexml |
| 22:30.46 | purl | Blizzard's UI for WoW. Export code/art from the client by using the wow.exe -console or open 'World of Warcraft.app' --args -console after game loads press ~ and enter commands "ExportInterfaceFiles code" and "ExportInterfaceFiles art" (must be used on login screen); or view it online at http://github.com/tekkub/wow-ui-source , http://wowprogramming.com/utils/xmlbrowser or http://www.townlong-yak. |
| 22:30.46 | kd3 | too long |
| 22:31.01 | Neffi | Blame foxlit for changing his url |
| 22:31.47 | foxlit | it’s still shorter than the other two. |
| 22:32.00 | Neffi | In fact, can I change that to just link to http://wowpedia.org/Viewing_Blizzard's_interface_code ? |
| 22:32.14 | kd3 | it'd be shorter, sure |
| 22:32.14 | jleclanche | jnwhiteh: how much did moving from the UK to sweden cost you, roughly? |
| 22:33.08 | Neffi | purl no, framexml is <reply>Blizzard's UI for WoW; the code making up the entire default UI. Instructions on viewing it can be found here: http://wowpedia.org/Viewing_Blizzard's_interface_code . |
| 22:33.08 | purl | okay, Neffi |
| 22:36.56 | foxlit | ~framexml |
| 22:36.57 | purl | Blizzard's UI for WoW. Export it yourself by following intructions on http://wowpedia.org/Viewing_Blizzard's_interface_code ; or view it online at http://github.com/tekkub/wow-ui-source , http://wowprogramming.com/utils/xmlbrowser or http://www.townlong-yak.com/framexml |
| 22:37.12 | foxlit | more clicky things. |
| 22:37.38 | Neffi | clicks foxlit <_< |
| 22:41.56 | foxlit | I found a full-length version of Believers High; bliss. |
| 22:42.43 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:42.55 | g0urra | Believers' High sounds like a religious school |
| 22:43.41 | foxlit | That requires a dialect where high schools are a thing. |
| 22:45.21 | foxlit | g0urra: to me, the version lacking the apostrophe sounds more like that. Strange, really. |
| 22:47.08 | foxlit | Neffi: also fun: the URL only lengthened by 5 characters; your message was cut off way earlier. |
| 22:48.39 | Neffi | didnt look cut off to me |
| 22:48.55 | foxlit | (although maybe that’s your client trying to be clever by splitting on the . character) |
| 22:49.46 | Neffi | might be it is. seems to do all sorts of clever stuff that dont bother me because I dont notice |
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| 23:21.56 | airtonix | fuuuuuu odesk |
| 23:23.13 | airtonix | also can't seem to delete #ruby and #rails from my quassel client |
| 23:23.22 | airtonix | man i hate ruby |
| 23:26.38 | kd3 | ./part #foo, then right-click on the channel and choose "hide permanently"? |
| 23:28.14 | airtonix | yeah i've been parted from those two chans for nearly a year now |
| 23:29.03 | airtonix | would rather they be purged with righteous holy deletive powers |
| 23:29.38 | kd3 | something something "Hide Chat(s) Permanently" |
| 23:30.36 | airtonix | "Infidels. They must be purified!" |
| 23:30.53 | airtonix | Burn in righteous fire! |
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