| 00:00.07 | Amarande | I would have figured I'd stumble on it sometime since 2007 if it existed :P |
| 00:00.27 | Amarande | (actually I discovered the feature in TOR by accident, didn't know about it till I'm like "um why did that skill go off and go on CD? I didn't place the targeting ... wait hmmm ..." |
| 00:02.04 | Amarande | heh. makes that one glyph for pally seem even more insane, then |
| 00:04.19 | Simca | Kesava /run QuestDialog1Button1:Click() or whatever |
| 00:05.03 | Kesava | well without permanently binding a key to it |
| 00:05.23 | Kesava | i suppose that could go in a macro |
| 00:05.27 | Kesava | but anyway i mean built in |
| 00:06.43 | Kesava | I think the other mmo with the nice contextual keys was GW2 |
| 00:06.51 | Kesava | popped up when you were close to someone/thing etc |
| 00:07.17 | Amarande | there's this one glyph for pally that turns consecrate from an aoe-around-you to a targeting reticle |
| 00:07.22 | Amarande | and all I can think is WHY, man, WHY ... |
| 00:07.58 | foxlit | psst, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIlELJ0YsVM << no targetting reticles. |
| 00:08.50 | Fisker | Why is this happening |
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| 00:53.37 | Stanzilla | foxlit: does that still work? |
| 00:53.40 | foxlit | yes. |
| 00:53.46 | Stanzilla | care to share? |
| 00:54.21 | Fisker | I'm sick Stanzilla |
| 00:54.32 | Stanzilla | that is sad, Fisker |
| 00:54.42 | Fisker | Yes |
| 00:54.48 | foxlit | Nah, it’s far more fun taunting people with it. |
| 00:55.41 | foxlit | (“what does it do? how does it work? It’s a mystery!”) |
| 00:56.05 | Fisker | A wizard did it foxlit |
| 00:56.24 | foxlit | I’m happy to issue very explicit denials, though. A wizard did not do it, Fisker. |
| 00:57.15 | Fisker | Oh ok |
| 00:57.21 | Fisker | Sorceress? |
| 00:57.52 | Fisker | I should be sleeping |
| 00:58.47 | foxlit | should move to greenland. It’d only be 23:00 |
| 01:00.48 | Semlar | but it's only 9 |
| 01:00.52 | Fisker | But it would be night like half the year |
| 01:01.03 | Fisker | Your solution is terrible |
| 01:01.35 | Fisker | You should go to bed and come with a better solution tomorrow |
| 01:01.35 | foxlit | meh, who cares about sunlight. What are you, a plant? |
| 01:01.53 | Fisker | I'm a delicate flower yes |
| 01:02.05 | Amarande | night is nice |
| 01:02.41 | foxlit | well, there’s also brazil. |
| 01:09.32 | Fisker | good night cruel world and foxlit |
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| 01:35.00 | Shirik | this is what happens when you mix Ableton with drugs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDpw3zMKsjQ |
| 01:35.19 | Shirik | (nsfw) |
| 01:53.45 | Neffi | Why does his standard cymbal sound, sound so terrible? |
| 01:54.11 | Neffi | I'm not into electric music, but did he skimp on the sample pack or is this just how bad Ableton reproduces cymbals? |
| 01:58.25 | pompy | derp http://wccftech.com/nvidia-delays-geforce-gtx-titan-z-launch-reason-unfinished-drivers-clock-speed-bump-incoming/ |
| 01:58.34 | pompy | second delay |
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| 02:01.03 | pompy | http://wccftech.com/halflife-2-coming-nvidia-shield-game-teased-green-crowbar/ |
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| 05:00.38 | Fisker | btw Shirik |
| 05:00.40 | Fisker | you here? |
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| 05:50.30 | karl_w_w | 1.79 TB of data on an external HD copied at 7 MB/s = 74 hours |
| 05:50.42 | karl_w_w | we need a new plan |
| 05:50.55 | Neffi | USB 2.0? |
| 05:51.03 | karl_w_w | yeah |
| 05:51.19 | Neffi | I would try pulling the HDD out of the enclosure and popping it in the machine |
| 05:52.26 | karl_w_w | I'd have to break it |
| 05:52.31 | bluspacecow | @karl_w_w ok. http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/5050d7eb6bb3f7b35d00000a-960/bauhaus-luftfahrt-ce-liner-electric-plane.jpg |
| 05:52.42 | bluspacecow | a new plane for you |
| 05:53.12 | Neffi | karl_w_w: That's a shame it doesnt come apart. I would still do it. |
| 05:53.25 | Neffi | I mean, a broken enclosure isn't pretty, but it's not like the shell is crucial to its functionality |
| 05:55.06 | karl_w_w | im not in that much of a hurry |
| 05:55.12 | jleclanche | anyone here knows anyone who works at firaxis? |
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| 06:00.06 | karl_w_w | i got usb 2.0 running at its proper speed |
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| 06:07.10 | bluspacecow | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2PzJE6EL2g |
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| 06:49.36 | Fisker | Sid Meier jleclanche ? |
| 06:49.46 | Fisker | boooooooooom |
| 06:49.48 | jleclanche | :/ |
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| 10:44.34 | karl_w_w | strange, windows won't copy folders over a certain size |
| 10:45.59 | Workfoz | sounds legit |
| 10:46.17 | Workfoz | what's the "certain" size? |
| 10:46.18 | karl_w_w | maybe i have some kind of file system error |
| 10:46.26 | karl_w_w | dont know, but 470 gb is too big |
| 10:46.35 | Workfoz | certainly doesn't sound like normal behaviour |
| 10:49.31 | karl_w_w | lots of "The sparse flag in the standard information attribute in file 0xefa |
| 10:49.31 | karl_w_w | is not set. |
| 10:49.31 | karl_w_w | Correcting sparse file record segment 3834." |
| 10:50.08 | zenzio | sounds more like errors on the source; but who knows |
| 10:50.14 | zenzio | "errors" |
| 10:50.16 | harl | that size shouldn't be an issue. it's possible there exist other aspects related to that folder. |
| 10:50.45 | harl | which could inherently pose problems under certain circumstances. |
| 10:51.16 | Workfoz | counds like you want to run chkdsk |
| 10:51.33 | karl_w_w | that's how I got that sparse flag message :P |
| 10:51.36 | Workfoz | obviously something is not right when it complains about file information being wrong |
| 10:51.48 | Workfoz | are you aware of sparse files in that directory, then |
| 10:53.11 | harl | check for files with special characters in their names. (just an idea anyway) |
| 10:53.45 | karl_w_w | only special characters are []() |
| 10:53.55 | harl | ok |
| 10:54.01 | Workfoz | what's special, precious? |
| 10:54.12 | harl | 劳改 |
| 10:54.29 | Workfoz | that's not special |
| 10:54.35 | harl | š¹ᠨܙ |
| 10:54.39 | Workfoz | neither is that |
| 10:54.40 | karl_w_w | hmm there is a strangeness here |
| 10:54.48 | karl_w_w | a folder which i cant delete |
| 10:54.59 | Workfoz | sounds like something a character in a horror movie might say upon entering a forlorn building |
| 10:55.05 | Workfoz | "there is a strangeness here..." |
| 10:55.08 | karl_w_w | i cant open it either, it says directory invalid |
| 10:55.12 | harl | they may not be special to you but i've experienced file systems getting confused by such characters, so.. |
| 10:55.19 | Workfoz | u broek it |
| 10:55.39 | harl | anyway, [] () shouldn't be an issue to windows |
| 10:55.44 | Workfoz | that'd be a really bad filesystem, then :o |
| 10:56.18 | Workfoz | special for NTFS under Windows itself means: \0, /, \, :, *, ?, ", <, >, | |
| 10:56.32 | Workfoz | any other UTF-16 entity should be valid |
| 10:56.44 | Workfoz | (might not be displayed very prettily, fonts etc, but...) |
| 10:57.01 | Workfoz | well, maybe it's time to run chkdsk *again* :D |
| 10:57.04 | karl_w_w | the folder doesnt appear at all to dir |
| 10:57.06 | Workfoz | also it's time to find food |
| 10:57.23 | harl | that's never a good sign, karl |
| 10:57.41 | Workfoz | I concur \o/ |
| 10:59.58 | karl_w_w | it's turned a bunch of files into folders somehow |
| 11:00.38 | Workfoz | ouch |
| 11:00.47 | Workfoz | are you sure your disks are healthy? :p |
| 11:00.57 | harl | ^^ |
| 11:00.58 | karl_w_w | no |
| 11:01.05 | Workfoz | stuff like this shouldn't happen without media corruption |
| 11:01.18 | karl_w_w | but i suspect it's some bug with the media player i had it plugged into |
| 11:01.40 | Workfoz | how big are the disks |
| 11:01.42 | Workfoz | or is the disk |
| 11:01.47 | karl_w_w | 2tb |
| 11:02.01 | Workfoz | hm |
| 11:02.29 | Workfoz | GPT partition table? 4k sectors? maybe bad ntfs drivers ("media player" probably means "embedded linux") |
| 11:02.46 | Workfoz | at least it's not an unlikely problem source |
| 11:02.46 | harl | i had a few maxtors and seagates in the past displaying the same erroneous behaviour. the reasons weren't always obvious. |
| 11:02.57 | Workfoz | anyway, gotta head out to find some food or I'll go hungry :D |
| 11:03.08 | Workfoz | last idea: dirty sata connectors :P |
| 11:03.55 | harl | yea, ghost in the machine ;) |
| 12:09.16 | Workfoz | ~seen g0urra |
| 12:09.19 | purl | g0urra <~g0urra@unaffiliated/gourra> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowuidev, 1d 12h 32m 32s ago, saying: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJyOOsvWTTE'. |
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| 12:26.51 | karl_w_w | "Made a ship that looked like the male genitalia. I crashed it into a station that looked like the female genitalia now. 10/10 game." |
| 12:33.15 | bluspacecow | lol |
| 12:33.43 | bluspacecow | hearthstone down. d3 down . wow down |
| 12:33.55 | bluspacecow | managed to get HoTS running =b d= |
| 12:35.34 | jleclanche | karl_w_w: behold the power of the mighty V-G1NY |
| 12:37.02 | karl_w_w | unlucky bluspacecow :P |
| 12:46.19 | jleclanche | ooh. burn. https://mediacru.sh/7rAFn30hhGyd |
| 12:46.57 | Workfoz | ooh. network error. |
| 12:47.16 | Workfoz | (wish I knew what the problem was, but our proxy chokes on mediacrush ^^) |
| 12:48.25 | jleclanche | Workfoz: does it choke on https://leclan.ch? |
| 12:48.39 | Workfoz | no |
| 12:48.43 | jleclanche | idk then |
| 12:49.11 | Workfoz | did you copy their tls setup or why'd you suggest that? |
| 12:49.52 | Workfoz | I'm in the wrong department, don't have access to the proxy, or I'd check it out (and replace it, probably) |
| 12:50.51 | bluspacecow | *replaces tls with tits* |
| 12:50.59 | bluspacecow | instantly making that paragraph hotter |
| 12:51.00 | zenzio | Workfoz: we can't access billettservice ("ticket service") from the office, for no apparent reason |
| 12:51.17 | bluspacecow | ah |
| 12:51.18 | bluspacecow | magic |
| 13:07.06 | zenzio | so, clicked a link to a question on Quora... "You must sign in to read past the first answer." |
| 13:07.18 | Workfoz | yes? |
| 13:07.26 | Workfoz | so :D that's been their business model for years |
| 13:07.33 | Workfoz | same as experts exchange |
| 13:07.34 | zenzio | I didn't even know it was years old |
| 13:07.47 | Workfoz | haha |
| 13:07.49 | zenzio | was about to say; that's always been one of my main gripes with EE and the like |
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| 13:20.02 | jleclanche | Workfoz: they copied my tls setup |
| 13:20.03 | jleclanche | :p |
| 13:20.34 | bluspacecow | *giggles snort* |
| 13:20.40 | bluspacecow | they copied his tits setup |
| 13:21.04 | Workfoz | jleclanche: you both copied ivan ristic's setup, probably/hopefully :p |
| 13:21.30 | jleclanche | Workfoz: I grabbed the config recommended by mozilla |
| 13:21.44 | Workfoz | I have no trust in them, I hope they copied his, then |
| 13:21.48 | jleclanche | also it's spelled Ristić |
| 13:21.54 | jleclanche | learn to dead accent! |
| 13:22.09 | Amarande | given that we're talking tls, this is when someone needs to get in with a "my heart bleeds ..." comment. :) |
| 13:24.05 | zenzio | jleclanche: speaking of dead accents... Google Spreadsheet or whatever the heck it's called, doesn't like me trying to type é... it just gives me a plain e |
| 13:24.14 | zenzio | but if I copy-paste an é, it saves fine |
| 13:24.30 | jleclanche | Amarande: yes, because that joke didn't get old in 10 minutes, let alone in 1 month |
| 13:24.51 | jleclanche | zenzio: how do you type it? |
| 13:24.53 | zenzio | I should say, it fails on most (all?) the alt-gr accents for me |
| 13:25.00 | jleclanche | hm |
| 13:25.04 | Amarande | hm, you on windows? |
| 13:25.05 | zenzio | shift+dead (like ò) works |
| 13:25.07 | zenzio | yeah |
| 13:25.10 | jleclanche | its possible its being overzealous in catching keybinds |
| 13:25.42 | zenzio | for reasons(tm) I use it in IE; I'm willing to believe that could be it |
| 13:26.09 | zenzio | logged in to different Google accounts in IE/Chrome/Firefox, because I'm too lazy to remember to use the right one in one single browser |
| 13:26.16 | Amarande | it's U+00E9 |
| 13:26.27 | Amarande | that should be alt+0233, I'm not sure why I can't get it to work on this machine |
| 13:26.52 | Amarande | ah, it does work, just hexchat doesn't support alt+ unicodes even on windows :( |
| 13:27.03 | zenzio | Amarande: ctrl+shift+u |
| 13:27.11 | zenzio | é |
| 13:29.03 | Amarande | yay, my UPS arrives today |
| 13:29.17 | Workfoz | jleclanche: I didn't even capitalize his name, do you think I don't know it? :P |
| 13:29.24 | jleclanche | :P |
| 13:29.35 | Workfoz | unless your IRC font sucks and you mistook the apostrophe for something it isn't ;p |
| 13:30.04 | Amarande | also, damn you Amazon |
| 13:30.18 | Workfoz | heh, I'd have to use the character map, though, if I wanted to spell it properly |
| 13:30.27 | Amarande | it was like, 189 when I first saw it, 180 now, ended up being 193 at the moment I went to buy it |
| 13:30.30 | Workfoz | I didn't include that in my keyboard layout |
| 13:30.36 | Amarande | they make a point of getting you to buy it when the price is worst :P |
| 13:31.57 | Workfoz | anyway... I can ping the server, so I'm assuming it's not the firewall eating the connection |
| 13:32.01 | Amarande | though still ... it's 274 from newegg (seriously newegg? the MSRP is 260. gougers.) |
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| 15:43.33 | VIad | EU decided that internet users have the right to be forgotten. This means Google have to purge private information from the search results at some point. |
| 15:44.04 | VIad | privacy wins! |
| 15:44.18 | VIad | well it's being workedo n :p |
| 15:45.46 | Fisker | Either it's not private or it's illegal |
| 15:45.58 | Fisker | I don't see the point |
| 15:46.30 | Fisker | And either way it's stupid |
| 15:48.40 | Amarande | Yeah, but what determines "private information" in the eyes of this law, given EU's wide-ranging privacy focus |
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| 15:49.01 | Amarande | like does everyone's personal information have to be scrubbed altogether, or are you still out of luck if you have it on a web page that gets spidered (and it's considered public then I suppose)? |
| 15:49.04 | VIad | remains to be seen |
| 15:49.34 | VIad | what about the fact if you use robots.txt and block search engines, many don't care and still log your page |
| 15:49.42 | VIad | that should be a felony if you ask me |
| 15:50.02 | Dagmar | I like to feed those people noise |
| 15:50.13 | VIad | if you wish to have a blog and block any search engine from caching your page, so that if you delete it later it's gone for ever |
| 15:50.14 | Fisker | Not as much of a felony as hiding illegal information behind it |
| 15:51.10 | VIad | you can't take pictures of people without their concent, doesn't mater if you've seen them and wanna keep that memory on a photo; if they say no you can't |
| 15:51.34 | Amarande | VIad: IANAL, but overriding robots.txt might be, especially in the US with the overreach that the government insists on pursuing with the CFAA |
| 15:51.44 | VIad | I think the same way of a page you make, if you wish it not to be copied by google or other search engines (that are made to soley copy pages) then it's your right :) |
| 15:51.55 | Fisker | It should be Amarande |
| 15:51.56 | Amarande | someone might well be able to sell that to a jury as "unauthorised access to a computer" |
| 15:52.11 | Amarande | Fisker: except the CFAA is kind of a bad thing, on the other hand |
| 15:52.32 | Fisker | Considering that accessing a public URL by incrementing the id number is hacking |
| 15:52.35 | Amarande | the same power that lets that kind of thing be probably possible, is also the kind of power that essentially allows all kinds of rights and freedoms from the pre-computer age to be practically squelched |
| 15:52.42 | Dagmar | If Weev's conviction weren't still grey-area, violating the robots.txt standard _would_ be a felony. |
| 15:52.43 | Amarande | keep in mind, since everything is computerised ... |
| 15:52.44 | VIad | I don't know. But as long there are no good guidelines or people don't respect these, we are going to have issues with privacy and the net. |
| 15:53.09 | Amarande | basically all kinds of things that would've been perfectly kosher in the pre-electronic age are pretty much closed to people forever |
| 15:53.52 | Amarande | because the fact that such things now involve a *computer*, means you can theoretically get quite a lot of cases where something that used to be legal is no longer, because it's technically "hacking" due to the presence of said computer |
| 15:54.41 | VIad | btw, IP6 adds a bit for country but does it fix the issue with proxy cheating? |
| 15:54.47 | Amarande | hell, doesn't it even almost seem like the CFAA can basically be wormed around to practically replace all other law, now that everything is computerised? :S |
| 15:54.50 | VIad | I doubt it does but might as well ask :p |
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| 16:22.33 | Jamash | I think if it's on the internet then search engines should index it |
| 16:22.45 | Jamash | if you don't want it indexed don't put it on the internet |
| 16:24.03 | Simca | the only people who override robots.txt are shady sites anyway |
| 16:24.09 | Kesava | is it just me |
| 16:24.17 | Kesava | or is kyparite the most useless ore they've ever implemented |
| 16:24.24 | Jamash | robots.txt should just be used to keep spiders out of unlimited dynamic content / stuff that's expensive to generate |
| 16:24.27 | Simca | definitely most useless |
| 16:26.23 | Fisker | Exactly Jamash |
| 16:26.48 | Jamash | Simca: what I mean is sites shouldn't use robots.txt to try to keep stuff "secret" because that's stupid |
| 16:27.03 | Kesava | very stupid |
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| 16:32.43 | Jamash | when people complain that their privacy is infringed by google I think about someone who goes around yelling their social security number through a bullhorn and then gets upset when they discover that their social security number is public knowledge |
| 16:42.21 | Amarande | Kesava: there's a few nice things that it made, but most of them are obsolete |
| 16:42.31 | Amarande | I think one of the engineering mounts needs a crap ton of it though |
| 16:42.38 | Amarande | like ... 200ish |
| 16:43.06 | Amarande | it's also prospectable |
| 16:43.59 | Amarande | but the biggest thing it was good for was the crafted blue weapons, but those were only really useful at the start of the expansion as starter gear in order to get into heroics and LFR |
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| 16:46.40 | Amarande | at this point, you're probably best off sending it to a JC (if you've got one) to prospect it, unless you're interested in the depleted kyparium rocket |
| 16:47.50 | Kesava | ah yes |
| 16:47.58 | Shirik | Wobin: RAIIIIIIIIIDSSSSSS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbItL4qcugk |
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| 16:58.00 | Wobin | Shirik: I saw on Kaelten's fb |
| 16:58.19 | Wobin | I really worry how Oz latency will affect the raids |
| 16:58.36 | Wobin | I mean, it looks -awesome- |
| 16:58.45 | Wobin | but we had problems with the Safety Dance in Naxx |
| 17:01.36 | Amarande | Your friends don't dance and if they don't dance well they're wiping the raid ... :P |
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| 17:07.38 | TC-Work | Wobin: They seem to be interactive. Ask. |
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| 17:15.39 | Jamash | Is it free-to-play yet? |
| 17:16.19 | TC-Work | Unlike you, no. |
| 17:16.23 | Jamash | nice |
| 17:16.30 | VIad | Shirik: isnt that the wow addon that got banned? |
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| 17:16.39 | VIad | all the floor markings :p |
| 17:16.42 | Jamash | Vlad: ha |
| 17:17.08 | VIad | blizz said it makes it too easy to raid, wildstar says it's hardcore |
| 17:17.28 | Jamash | well, because it's a core mechanic that means they can pump up the bullet hell aspect to raids a lot more |
| 17:17.29 | TC-Work | The difference is that wildstar builds around that idea, wow does noty |
| 17:17.31 | TC-Work | not* |
| 17:17.36 | Jamash | I don't actually like bullet hell |
| 17:17.52 | foxlit | the blizzard equivalent mechanic is projected textures, VIad, so I don’t think you have a point. |
| 17:18.15 | Jamash | foxlit: the addon added that stuff to raids that didn't have projected textures for attacks |
| 17:19.05 | VIad | the addon painted red areas on the floor and looked like that of the raid preview |
| 17:19.21 | foxlit | Have you raided in MoP, VIad? |
| 17:19.41 | VIad | not much - but did you see the trailer? |
| 17:19.45 | foxlit | yes. |
| 17:19.48 | VIad | red floor markings everywhere :D |
| 17:19.52 | nevcairiel | since telegraphs apparently make spotting danger so much easier, they'll instead have shitloads of dangerous areas going around and you're constantly required to dodge |
| 17:19.53 | VIad | wow don't got that much bullet hell |
| 17:20.36 | VIad | still funny how they took the idea to the next level :) |
| 17:21.05 | foxlit | The point is, there’s a difference between addon-provided “move here to win”, and encounter designer-provided “stay out of here to not die” beacons. |
| 17:21.28 | Jamash | I kind of like fighting enemies as opposed to dodging fireballs, does that make me insufficiently hardcore? |
| 17:21.29 | foxlit | The former makes thing too easy and were essentially killed in wotlk; the latter is alive and well even in WoW. |
| 17:22.16 | Shirik | VIad: it's really just a core mechanic of the game |
| 17:22.18 | Shirik | and sure, it looks easy |
| 17:22.26 | Shirik | let me tell you, from having played it at a fairly high level |
| 17:22.38 | VIad | I hope the mmo don't die |
| 17:22.45 | Shirik | it makes your head hurt |
| 17:22.49 | VIad | they try to implement ALL the features to compete with WoW |
| 17:22.50 | Shirik | like they will actually trick you with telegraphs |
| 17:22.57 | TC-Work | How do you fit through doorways Shirik? |
| 17:23.02 | Shirik | they will try to get you to dodge a certain way that will just set you up to be wrecked |
| 17:23.03 | Shirik | etc. |
| 17:23.20 | Shirik | it's not just "don't stand in the fire" |
| 17:23.28 | VIad | problem is they get burned out and once the content is chewed through they dont got enough planned out for later and it dies - i.e. SWTOR pre F2P |
| 17:23.43 | nevcairiel | seems to me like it'll be quite overloading for the not-so-highend players, constant dodging of markings on the floor plus actually having to 3d target attacks properly.. |
| 17:23.59 | Jamash | Vlad: and if any mmo has something really awesome blizzard puts it in the next expansion |
| 17:24.01 | VIad | wildstar raids looked like don't stand in the fire raids though |
| 17:24.03 | VIad | :p |
| 17:24.12 | Amarande | Jamash: Apparently to a lot of gamers and designers, yeah. |
| 17:24.43 | Amarande | There seems to be this popular gamer and designer sentiment that you should be spending about 90% of your time in an action battle defending yourself and avoiding the enemy attacks, and about 10% on golden opportunities to actually attack :P |
| 17:25.00 | Jamash | Amarande: bleh |
| 17:25.00 | Amarande | (especially egregious offenders: any Mega Man X game known to man, also the Avatar battles in .hack//GU) |
| 17:25.03 | Shirik | VIad: when you actually play it, you will realize it's not :) |
| 17:25.22 | VIad | they sure focused a lot on that aspect in their trailer though ;) |
| 17:25.36 | Shirik | well that's the core mechanic |
| 17:25.44 | Shirik | it's one of those things you can't really get until you've actually played it |
| 17:25.48 | VIad | just so we are on the same page, "don't stand in the fire" is basically not to stand in places that hurt/kill |
| 17:25.51 | Shirik | to appreciate the depth to which they thought about it |
| 17:26.06 | Shirik | yes but it's not that simple |
| 17:26.16 | VIad | let's see if I even get to raiding at all :p |
| 17:26.27 | VIad | if I pick it up and don't get to max level to do it then yeah ;p |
| 17:26.32 | Jamash | Shirik: Does Wildstar have combat res? |
| 17:26.41 | Shirik | not that I've noticed |
| 17:27.12 | Jamash | so basically Wildstar is have a lag glitch, spend 90% of the fight dead, the mmo |
| 17:27.15 | VIad | btw, what are your thoughts on TESO assuming you have played it? |
| 17:27.16 | Kaelten | Wobin: yeah it looks incredible but no idea how latency sensitive the game is |
| 17:27.33 | Shirik | I haven't played ESO and I don't really intend to |
| 17:27.42 | foxlit | You could always move some of the more latency-reliant logic to the client. |
| 17:27.44 | Fisker | asd |
| 17:27.50 | Shirik | I feel like ESO is going to be very dependent upon people that are actually into that lore |
| 17:27.52 | Shirik | and I'm just not |
| 17:27.56 | kd3 | huh at the new female nelf model: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/14096397 |
| 17:27.57 | Jamash | foxlit: which increases the ability for players to cheat |
| 17:28.22 | foxlit | Jamash: yes, but it’s not like the client is an input-taking dumb box to begin with. |
| 17:28.32 | Shirik | with regards to latency, I've done a little bit of testing on that front and it seems to be somewhat forgiving |
| 17:28.40 | Shirik | it actually does seem like half of the logic is on the client |
| 17:28.57 | Shirik | but not so much as to say "oh the guy dodged everything even when the entire map was covered? OK!" |
| 17:29.06 | VIad | I really liked Skyrim, but TESO is completely different, and I fear it will suffer because of that. Looks very similar, but plays entirely different. |
| 17:29.37 | Shirik | It's probably more of a historical buffer where if the server didn't see you dodge it in time, but the client responds in X milliseconds saying you did, then it's forgiving |
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| 17:29.47 | Gnarfoz | <nevcairiel> seems to me like it'll be quite overloading for the not-so-highend players, constant dodging of markings on the floor plus actually having to 3d target attacks properly.. -- that's what "auto face target" is for! :D |
| 17:29.57 | Shirik | auto face target is bullshit |
| 17:29.59 | Shirik | I can't believe they put that in |
| 17:30.13 | Gnarfoz | they want subs |
| 17:30.23 | Jamash | does it have gamepad support? |
| 17:30.49 | Gnarfoz | map keys to your gamepad buttons... suddenly, every game has gamepad support! |
| 17:31.01 | Jamash | Gnarfoz: Hilarious. I mean joystick |
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| 17:31.16 | TC-Work | I hope not. |
| 17:31.21 | Shirik | at least it's pve only but still |
| 17:31.21 | Gnarfoz | map analog stick to mouse, suddenly, every game has analog stick support! |
| 17:31.21 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 17:31.24 | TC-Work | No one should be playing that with a joystick. |
| 17:31.38 | Shirik | I kinda agree |
| 17:31.39 | foxlit | And why not? :) |
| 17:31.50 | Gnarfoz | but there's actually addons that enable permanent mouse-look |
| 17:31.53 | Shirik | I mean I've seen some epic halo players be able to control a joystick with insane precision |
| 17:31.57 | Gnarfoz | so stick-as-mouse would probably actually work |
| 17:32.04 | Shirik | but the level of control you need is absurd |
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| 17:32.36 | foxlit | I mean, you could very probably play GW2 with a gamepad. |
| 17:32.53 | Shirik | I didn't play GW2 long enough to appreciate what that means |
| 17:33.05 | TC-Work | For the same reason you do not use a car compacter as a meat tenderizer, it is not what it was designed for. |
| 17:33.15 | Gnarfoz | the only thing you need to know about joysticks, gamepad, and other such abominations, is this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl35QCbMi-c |
| 17:34.10 | kd3 | zvz going on right now: http://starcraft2.com/wcs |
| 17:34.12 | foxlit | TC-Work: not terribly compelling. Listing a few things that would not work as well would work better. |
| 17:34.35 | foxlit | WoW obviously has a problem with its healing model, and maybe with discrete targets in mob crowds. |
| 17:35.04 | A-KO | Wildstar's raiding looks amazing |
| 17:35.07 | A-KO | goodbye WoW |
| 17:35.07 | A-KO | lol |
| 17:35.13 | A-KO | I have no interest in LFR raids |
| 17:35.18 | A-KO | it's all about the hardcore wildstar raids |
| 17:35.30 | TC-Work | foxlit: Well that was the point. You could use it to do that, but the amount of effort involved is unwarranted. |
| 17:35.54 | Jamash | gnarfoz: I luled |
| 17:35.56 | foxlit | But that’s just WoW. You could adjust game design to accomodate it, and there’s no intrisic reason why the end result would be worse. |
| 17:36.49 | foxlit | kd3: apollo and… someone? |
| 17:37.04 | TC-Work | I'm not arguing that, but since wildstar (which is what we are talking about) did not do that, I feel that my opnion is valid. |
| 17:38.00 | foxlit | Okay. I have no idea, since I’ve only watched the video, which showed no raid frames :) |
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| 17:39.54 | zenzelezz | foxlit: Kaelaris |
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| 17:50.06 | Gnarfoz | so, which popular character and guild name should I block in Wildstar for 14 days after release? (both regions) :D |
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| 17:56.34 | Semlar | goon squad |
| 17:57.27 | Gnarfoz | awesome idea, Semlar |
| 17:57.39 | Gnarfoz | that'd probable be "Goons"? HM |
| 17:57.48 | Jamash | Gnarfoz: Weedlord |
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| 17:58.10 | Gnarfoz | probably many variations on how a goon guild could be called, though |
| 17:59.32 | Gnarfoz | well, page is already overloaded and it's not even 20:00 |
| 18:00.00 | g0urra | http://www.wildstar-online.com/uk/ crashed |
| 18:00.16 | zenzelezz | is there a launch today? |
| 18:00.24 | Gnarfoz | no |
| 18:00.32 | g0urra | https://secure.wildstar-online.com/ works though |
| 18:00.34 | Gnarfoz | name reservation for pre-orderers |
| 18:01.03 | Gnarfoz | you can block 1 character and 1 guild name, globally, for the fist two weeks |
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| 18:04.40 | TC-Work | Arrowmaster: New CAH stuff |
| 18:09.06 | Dagmar | There's a wildstar patch today. HOPEFULLY they're fixing cooking and armorcrafting |
| 18:09.18 | Gnarfoz | read patch notes instead of guessing |
| 18:09.24 | Dagmar | Cooking is effectively disabled because the chefs you're supposed to talk to do not appear. |
| 18:09.44 | Dagmar | The armorcraftinng of outfitter is broken because it looks like the entire table of recipes needed are missing |
| 18:10.00 | Gnarfoz | missing crafting recipes was in the patch notes, iirc. |
| 18:10.14 | Dagmar | The ones for today? I've not looked at them yet |
| 18:10.34 | Gnarfoz | I'd almost call it "yesterday" since it's been out for > 12 hours :D |
| 18:10.40 | Gnarfoz | (doesn't matter :P) |
| 18:10.45 | Gnarfoz | 6657 or what it is |
| 18:10.54 | Gnarfoz | 6677 |
| 18:11.21 | Gnarfoz | however, the website is down because of the name reserveration thing :P so I'm having a hard time actually finding the notes again |
| 18:11.24 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 18:11.51 | Gnarfoz | https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/44594-hotfix-patch-51314-6677/ |
| 18:14.49 | nevcairiel | gmail having troubles for anyone else? |
| 18:15.05 | Semlar | nope |
| 18:16.42 | g0urra | wow wildstar massive fail |
| 18:17.09 | g0urra | ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ WRONG TURN SPACE COWBOY ༼つ ◕_◕ ༽つ |
| 18:17.17 | g0urra | goddamn IRC |
| 18:17.29 | Gnarfoz | pff, massive fail is something else |
| 18:17.38 | Gnarfoz | what did you expect \o/ :D |
| 18:17.40 | nevcairiel | that was massive irc fail |
| 18:17.43 | jleclanche | my monitor whistles when there is too much text on my console |
| 18:17.55 | jleclanche | it bleeds and it whistles |
| 18:18.02 | jleclanche | its a real boy now and maybe i need a new one |
| 18:18.04 | Dagmar | "Fixed the last of the missing item and craft schematics bugs." <-- cool |
| 18:18.06 | Semlar | too much text? |
| 18:18.13 | jleclanche | yes |
| 18:18.14 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: yeah, that's it |
| 18:18.24 | Gnarfoz | I just picke the URI from my history, I couldn't actually get the page to open :D |
| 18:18.26 | nevcairiel | mine does that when I open a binary file in a text editor, I think its some sort of thing with high contrast things |
| 18:18.36 | nevcairiel | it goes away when i dim or increase the backlight |
| 18:18.41 | Semlar | did my client save me from spam |
| 18:18.44 | Gnarfoz | so I can maybe, finally, get a tradeskill talent point ^^ |
| 18:18.48 | jleclanche | like, it whistles here: https://mediacru.sh/t583z8zT-5F8 |
| 18:19.04 | jleclanche | Dagmar Gnarfoz: screw you guys i cant log into wildstar yet :( |
| 18:19.07 | nevcairiel | jleclanche: yeah mine starts on that as well |
| 18:19.09 | jleclanche | not until gcc has finished compiling.. |
| 18:19.09 | Dagmar | gnarfox: My poor bank is all full of cooking recipes and stuff |
| 18:19.14 | nevcairiel | jleclanche: its the backlight |
| 18:19.26 | Gnarfoz | tab compleeeete |
| 18:19.28 | Dagmar | jleclanche: Well, if it makes you feel any better I'm at work |
| 18:19.43 | g0urra | lmfao they're seriously saying on the stream that there are too many people wanting to reserve a name |
| 18:19.44 | Semlar | your monitor is actually just objecting at having to display that |
| 18:19.46 | Gnarfoz | I could just log in and play, but I'm watching Free to Play |
| 18:19.54 | Gnarfoz | g0urra: no way? that can't be! :D |
| 18:20.14 | g0urra | "our web team is scrambling to fix it" |
| 18:20.26 | nevcairiel | sounds more like overload, doubtful they can :p |
| 18:20.37 | Gnarfoz | that's also fixable |
| 18:20.43 | Semlar | i don't think i've ever scrambled to fix anything |
| 18:20.49 | g0urra | "everyone and their mom f5'd the page" |
| 18:20.50 | Dagmar | Next time maybe they'll make it a lottery system |
| 18:21.16 | nevcairiel | well you usually dont have an array of hot standby servers you just have to add to the load balancer to make it magically go faster :d |
| 18:21.16 | Dagmar | ...welll, the next time someone else makes a good game with name reservation as a part of pre-order |
| 18:21.42 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: you don't? :O |
| 18:21.47 | Dagmar | nevcairiel: You do if you're taking virutalization seriously |
| 18:21.51 | Gnarfoz | we suck, have no actual load, but even we can do that! |
| 18:22.00 | Dagmar | ...but then, that's something PHBs come up with anyway |
| 18:22.01 | Gnarfoz | exactly, moaaar VMs! :D |
| 18:22.31 | Dagmar | Gnarfoz: Hey I've actually seen managers declare the answer to cpu exhaustion on the existing exchange VMs was to add more VMs |
| 18:22.46 | Gnarfoz | (you still need hardware, of course, but you're hopefully not running your VM clusters at capacity if you're in such a position) |
| 18:22.53 | Dagmar | It was a stroke of fucking genius considering that none of the VMs have their CPU utilization throttled in any way |
| 18:23.23 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: please make them all 8 vCPU VMs |
| 18:23.25 | Gnarfoz | so they never get to run |
| 18:23.38 | nevcairiel | Gnarfoz: just saying that you usually don't just have those sitting around waiting to be needed, you need to arrange for those to be setup first |
| 18:23.42 | Dagmar | Well, there was an 8 involved. |
| 18:23.55 | Dagmar | They were stacked 8 to 1 on there before admitting it was a dumb idea |
| 18:24.04 | Dagmar | Yes, eight exchange virtual CPUs per real CPU. |
| 18:24.07 | Dagmar | I'm not even kidding. |
| 18:25.32 | Gnarfoz | well, 8-thread CPUs aren't a rarity by any measure, but this was probably a while ago ;) |
| 18:26.26 | Gnarfoz | still, at least for esxi, making big multi-vcpu VMs can drastically affect VM performance because of scheduling |
| 18:26.31 | nevcairiel | do people really count in actual CPUs? |
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| 18:26.46 | nevcairiel | i mean, not cores? |
| 18:26.58 | Gnarfoz | what do yo mean? |
| 18:27.06 | Gnarfoz | I'd count in vcpus and available threads |
| 18:27.32 | nevcairiel | threads becomes tricky if you count HT, so i would count cores |
| 18:27.43 | Gnarfoz | of course you count HT, that's what it's for |
| 18:27.43 | Gnarfoz | :P |
| 18:27.53 | nevcairiel | but its not a 100% boost :p |
| 18:27.57 | Gnarfoz | the entire point of it is to maximize resource usage |
| 18:29.19 | nevcairiel | of course |
| 18:30.08 | nevcairiel | but its still not entirely accurate to say a 8c/16t cpu has twice as much "threads" as a 8c/8t cpu |
| 18:30.14 | Fisker | my feet nevcairiel |
| 18:30.16 | Fisker | they're cold |
| 18:30.48 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: it is precisely accurate |
| 18:30.55 | Gnarfoz | (that'd be "accurate", really :P) |
| 18:31.02 | nevcairiel | it suggests that its twice as fast |
| 18:31.04 | nevcairiel | which it isnt |
| 18:31.11 | Gnarfoz | only if you don't know how HT works |
| 18:31.30 | nevcairiel | if you abstract it down to just threads without context, it all ends in fuzzyness |
| 18:31.34 | Gnarfoz | it can process 16 threads, that's what you care about, because more stuff gets to run |
| 18:32.34 | Gnarfoz | I guess I'll just play and not reserve any names :P no point waiting for the page to come up |
| 18:33.19 | nevcairiel | i wonder how these things work in the scheduler, does it actually have a real core and a HT core (real with priority), or just two "cores" that compete for the same hardware |
| 18:33.59 | nevcairiel | windows seems to suggest the first, as it actually disables every second core when you're only under light loads |
| 18:37.31 | g0urra | https://twitter.com/WildStarOps/status/466285251128745984 |
| 18:39.39 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@c83-250-213-196.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 18:39.41 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 18:40.27 | TC-Work | Heh |
| 18:42.56 | *** join/#wowuidev jleclanche (~adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 18:50.31 | jleclanche | g0urra: where are the name reservations done? |
| 18:53.50 | zenzelezz | so I don't quite get this... Rift is running commercials with version 2.4, but the website seems to say 2.7 is the current |
| 18:53.57 | zenzelezz | on Youtube |
| 19:00.31 | Gnarfoz | jleclanche: http://www.wildstar-online.com/uk/reserve-name/ |
| 19:00.42 | Gnarfoz | however, it's going to be another hour until the new time |
| 19:00.52 | Gnarfoz | (website died at 20:00 ;P) |
| 19:02.39 | jleclanche | This site is temporarily unavailable due to scheduled maintenance. |
| 19:02.42 | jleclanche | =] |
| 19:03.01 | Gnarfoz | (what'd I just say? :P) |
| 19:03.10 | jleclanche | im trying to prepurchase the game |
| 19:03.18 | Gnarfoz | ah, well. |
| 19:03.22 | jleclanche | i shouldve done that earlier but meh |
| 19:03.25 | jleclanche | i wanted to test it first |
| 19:03.31 | Gnarfoz | should probably do it somewhere where you get a discount anyway ;) |
| 19:03.42 | Gnarfoz | like greenmangaming (-25% at the moment I think?) |
| 19:03.44 | jleclanche | you get a discount somewhere? |
| 19:04.11 | jleclanche | hey cool. |
| 19:04.13 | Gnarfoz | hmm, apparently not right now |
| 19:04.19 | jleclanche | yeah very much so |
| 19:04.37 | Gnarfoz | ah, you can get a -20% when you spend >10€ |
| 19:04.42 | Gnarfoz | which would apply |
| 19:05.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (~Amarande@24-151-100-63.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 19:05.28 | Gnarfoz | I thought I saw a -25% for Wildstar one on twitter, but either it wasn't GMG or it's already gone |
| 19:05.42 | jleclanche | Gnarfoz: the thing is though, if i prepurchase the physical edition, I cant reserve my name right? |
| 19:05.58 | Gnarfoz | öhrm |
| 19:05.58 | jleclanche | because their FAQ says i need a prepurchase code applied to my account to reserve my name |
| 19:06.04 | Gnarfoz | yeah |
| 19:06.14 | Gnarfoz | I got a preorder code the instant I ordered |
| 19:06.14 | Amarande | yay, UPS hooked up. :) |
| 19:06.24 | jleclanche | Gnarfoz: where did you order? |
| 19:06.30 | Gnarfoz | (I didn't order physical, though... check what their site says) |
| 19:06.32 | Amarande | heh, do they expect that much competition for that many character names? |
| 19:06.45 | Gnarfoz | GreenManGaming |
| 19:06.53 | Gnarfoz | with a similar -20% coupon thing |
| 19:06.58 | jleclanche | ah |
| 19:07.00 | Gnarfoz | so I just got deluxe for the price of standard |
| 19:07.03 | jleclanche | the discount is only for physical |
| 19:07.04 | Amarande | I usually never have trouble with names being taken when I create MMO characters (although on the other hand, coming up with original male names is something I'm never good at, which is yet another reason most of my characters in MMOs are female :P) |
| 19:07.06 | jleclanche | http://www.greenmangaming.com/search/?q=wildstar |
| 19:07.27 | Gnarfoz | huh? |
| 19:07.42 | Gnarfoz | the discount available there right now is for "any purchase >10 $currency" |
| 19:07.56 | Gnarfoz | http://www.greenmangaming.com/coming-soon/ |
| 19:08.01 | Gnarfoz | on the right side, middle-ish |
| 19:08.05 | jleclanche | Gnarfoz: https://mediacru.sh/fLq4H65ovpWz |
| 19:08.19 | Gnarfoz | yes? that's what you just linked |
| 19:08.22 | Gnarfoz | did you apply the code? |
| 19:08.30 | jleclanche | what code? |
| 19:08.36 | Gnarfoz | my turn, then :p |
| 19:09.04 | Gnarfoz | blah imgur, don't be slow |
| 19:09.11 | Dagmar | http://www.dealzon.com/deals/green-man-gaming-coupon-voucher |
| 19:09.24 | jleclanche | Gnarfoz: mediacru.sh, use it, its better |
| 19:09.32 | Gnarfoz | it's not, stop evangelizing it, it gets annoying :p |
| 19:09.44 | Gnarfoz | http://i.imgur.com/5rynNvk.png anywhere, there |
| 19:09.46 | jleclanche | Gnarfoz: its open source and doesnt recompress |
| 19:09.54 | Gnarfoz | png doesn't sound very recompressed to me |
| 19:10.05 | jleclanche | Gnarfoz: imgur recompresses anything above 1mb |
| 19:10.06 | Gnarfoz | (and that's a screenshot of http://www.greenmangaming.com/coming-soon/ ;-)) |
| 19:10.09 | Gnarfoz | sooo? |
| 19:10.12 | Gnarfoz | this wasn't above 1 mb. |
| 19:10.20 | jleclanche | yes. im speaking in general... |
| 19:10.38 | Gnarfoz | that's nice. I know about it, no need to mention it every goddamn time someone links images from a site that is not it :P |
| 19:10.57 | Dagmar | There could be *penises* in them |
| 19:10.57 | jleclanche | Gnarfoz: that voucher code is probably getting adblocked |
| 19:11.14 | jleclanche | Gnarfoz: i mentioned it cause you complained about imgur |
| 19:11.40 | Gnarfoz | actually I only said that because I was anticipating you saying something even before I mentioned imgur :P |
| 19:11.46 | Gnarfoz | really? that'd be a horrible ad blocker |
| 19:11.50 | Gnarfoz | because it's on GMG's own CDN |
| 19:12.03 | jleclanche | ah nvm |
| 19:12.07 | Gnarfoz | does it do visual recognition or something |
| 19:12.08 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 19:12.22 | jleclanche | this site sucks |
| 19:12.28 | jleclanche | its asking me to register to even view my basket |
| 19:12.29 | Gnarfoz | jleclanche: the day I figure out how to access mediacrush from work, maybe I'll start using it more :D |
| 19:12.47 | jleclanche | and its letting me sign in with facebook but requiring a password |
| 19:12.50 | jleclanche | fuck them, id rather pay more |
| 19:13.02 | Gnarfoz | ah... idealists, they never get boring |
| 19:13.04 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 19:13.37 | jleclanche | giving a "sign in with facebook" that uses a password is basically a "sign in to give us personal information" |
| 19:13.43 | jleclanche | so yeah, fuck them |
| 19:14.05 | Gnarfoz | why would you even USE facebook to sign into anything where you're spending money |
| 19:14.16 | Gnarfoz | if I'd fault them for anything, it's for even offering it in the first place, not the way they're doing it |
| 19:14.17 | jleclanche | to avoid having a password for that site? |
| 19:14.28 | jleclanche | oauth logins have their merit |
| 19:14.49 | Gnarfoz | isn't facebook openid |
| 19:14.51 | Esamynn|work | when correctly implemented |
| 19:14.56 | jleclanche | no, facebook is oauth2 |
| 19:14.59 | Gnarfoz | also, you still have an account in their db |
| 19:15.00 | jleclanche | exclusively |
| 19:15.06 | jleclanche | google is openid, oauth and oauth2 |
| 19:15.19 | jleclanche | and yes, but having an account in their db isnt the problem - having a password in it is |
| 19:15.36 | jleclanche | also, requiring me to sign in to edit my basket? fuck their shit right up their shitholder |
| 19:15.47 | Gnarfoz | only if you use the same password for everything, and there's a solution to that which I know you're already using :D |
| 19:16.45 | jleclanche | I limit the amount of websites in keepass |
| 19:16.47 | jleclanche | I mean |
| 19:17.03 | jleclanche | i always use keepass, but I limit my passworded accounts in general |
| 19:17.34 | Gnarfoz | *shrug*, you just make the oauth account (facebook or otherwise) that much more valuable |
| 19:20.24 | jleclanche | sure, but I actually trust facebook as an authentication provider |
| 19:20.46 | jleclanche | as well as google. they both have hosts of security measures and an excellent featureset |
| 19:21.16 | jleclanche | when you use third party authentication, you have to remember you get the third party's authentication features with it |
| 19:21.36 | jleclanche | with google for example, you get 2FA and email alerts for free |
| 19:21.47 | jleclanche | as well as monthly account reports and such |
| 19:22.13 | Gnarfoz | where do you turn those on, then? never gotten any |
| 19:22.38 | jleclanche | they have a host of security |
| 19:22.43 | jleclanche | wtf |
| 19:22.43 | jleclanche | https://www.google.com/settings/activity |
| 19:22.58 | Gnarfoz | erm |
| 19:23.06 | Gnarfoz | nice. a page with a single link on it. :p |
| 19:23.09 | jleclanche | https://www.google.com/settings/datatools |
| 19:23.17 | jleclanche | https://www.google.com/settings/security etc |
| 19:23.21 | Gnarfoz | eh? |
| 19:23.25 | Gnarfoz | I was asking about the reports |
| 19:23.32 | Gnarfoz | why are you linking several things :D |
| 19:23.45 | jleclanche | Im linking their security dashboard |
| 19:23.47 | Gnarfoz | ah, the checkbox for those is right on the page the first page you linked linked to |
| 19:24.27 | Gnarfoz | bleh, it's a reminder to *go there* once a month |
| 19:24.28 | Gnarfoz | great :P |
| 19:24.46 | Gnarfoz | I guess it saves me setting up a calendar entry ^^ |
| 19:24.49 | jleclanche | you get sent the report |
| 19:24.57 | jleclanche | well, you get sent a link to the report |
| 19:27.21 | jleclanche | I cant believe I had to use paypal for this. cc payments are broken =( |
| 19:27.39 | Amarande | jleclanche: hey, think on the bright side, one less site you had to provide your credit card details to |
| 19:27.59 | jleclanche | I dont actually care about my credit card details |
| 19:28.25 | jleclanche | I'm insured against anything bad that could happen in that area |
| 19:28.26 | Primer | send them to me, then |
| 19:28.29 | Gnarfoz | great, give 'em to me, then! |
| 19:28.30 | Gnarfoz | bleh |
| 19:28.38 | jleclanche | you're both so original you should just have sex |
| 19:29.00 | Gnarfoz | sure, with hookers paid with money from your CC |
| 19:29.01 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 19:29.05 | Amarande | jleclanche: yeah, but still, it takes time to get your replacement card when that happens. what if you have a bill (like your game subscription, web hosting, etc. ...) that comes right at the wrong time? :S |
| 19:29.16 | jleclanche | Amarande: I care about not giving my business to paypal; i dont care about a website stealing my card number for which Ill be repaid |
| 19:29.35 | Gnarfoz | good luck being repaid if they think it was your own fault |
| 19:29.47 | jleclanche | what is this, america? |
| 19:29.51 | jleclanche | we have a sane banking system here |
| 19:29.54 | Gnarfoz | right |
| 19:29.57 | Gnarfoz | I forgot for a minute |
| 19:29.58 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 19:30.04 | Gnarfoz | high fives jleclanche |
| 19:30.11 | jleclanche | europe-five! |
| 19:30.21 | Gnarfoz | hehe |
| 19:30.37 | Gnarfoz | time to reboot my very non-europe OS |
| 19:31.25 | jleclanche | https://www.humblebundle.com mmh.. |
| 19:31.53 | jleclanche | hell of a bundle to start with |
| 19:32.38 | jleclanche | no eff =/ |
| 19:36.07 | Esamynn|work | hold on, hold on... Europe has a _sane_ banking system? |
| 19:36.36 | Esamynn|work | since when? |
| 19:44.14 | Kalroth | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area for a starter! |
| 19:45.37 | Esamynn|work | I didn't say Europe does everything wrong, but taken as a whole, I really cannot consider the EU banking system to be sane |
| 19:45.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Neffi_ (~Neffi@pool-98-116-157-170.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 19:46.18 | Esamynn|work | now, I'm not certain I would really consider any banking system in the world measures up to that particular criteria :P |
| 19:46.37 | Esamynn|work | but the EU surely wouldn't be a front runner |
| 19:47.11 | foxlit | Is there something specific you’re objecting to, Esamynn|work? |
| 19:47.21 | Kalroth | isn't the US only just beginning to use chipped creditcards? |
| 19:47.23 | nevcairiel | the EU banking system is a whole of a lot better than the US system, for example =p |
| 19:47.34 | Esamynn|work | I would not argue that either ;) |
| 19:47.35 | nevcairiel | and with SEPA its gotten better recently |
| 19:48.12 | Kalroth | i can do cross-country <24h cross-bank bank transfers for 0.09 EUR (~0.12 USD) |
| 19:48.53 | Kalroth | as long as they aren't too large :P |
| 19:52.25 | *** join/#wowuidev gOurra (~g0urra@unaffiliated/gourra) |
| 19:53.15 | Esamynn|work | but lets see here: the ECB's hands are utterly tied to the political whims of members who almost never act in concert, no defined system for resolving a bust bank.... that's all I've got off the top of my head without taking a swipe at the Euro itself |
| 19:55.02 | Amarande | Esamynn: and then you have Angela Merkel and her goons basically insisting that Germany should get to decide everything if they're the ones who are likely to have to fund most of the things due to relative economic statuses of the nations |
| 19:55.18 | *** join/#wowuidev mitch0 (~mitch@drvolomdental.hu) |
| 19:56.05 | Esamynn|work | there is also that... when the reality is that Germany could likely foot the entire bill and STILL be better off due to the Euro |
| 19:56.53 | Kalroth | its okay in 2 years everybody will be using bitcoins |
| 19:57.13 | foxlit | I think that would work better with dogecoin. |
| 19:57.17 | foxlit | Much happiness. |
| 19:57.27 | Kalroth | such racing |
| 19:57.34 | Kalroth | wow service |
| 19:57.49 | Esamynn|work | bitcoin is _fundamentally_ flawed as a currency |
| 19:57.58 | Kalroth | so is the dollar/euro |
| 19:58.12 | Gnarfoz | so is your mom! |
| 19:58.22 | Kalroth | so is your dads son! |
| 19:58.37 | Esamynn|work | it is deflationary by its very nature which is utterly destructive in any economy |
| 19:58.39 | Fisker | Every currency is |
| 19:58.49 | Fisker | Bitcoin is less though |
| 19:58.55 | Esamynn|work | O_o |
| 19:59.07 | Esamynn|work | ~troll Fisker |
| 19:59.07 | purl | ACTION hereby declares Fisker a troll |
| 19:59.09 | Kalroth | http://www.businessinsider.com/richard-branson-bitpay-statement-2014-5 |
| 19:59.17 | Kalroth | branson is trolling too |
| 20:00.07 | Fisker | Sorry Esamynn|work trolling by declaring a troll doesn't detract from the fact you're trolling |
| 20:00.17 | Kalroth | was that a troll, Fisker |
| 20:00.30 | Fisker | Not really |
| 20:00.42 | Kalroth | whens surfaze 3 ultra out |
| 20:00.53 | Fisker | May 20th |
| 20:00.57 | Kalroth | i took your advice and waited |
| 20:01.08 | Kalroth | since you're such an insightful and sensible person |
| 20:01.38 | Esamynn|work | Fisker: I never troll. I get zero enjoyment out of that kind of activity. |
| 20:02.08 | Kalroth | you're still trolling! |
| 20:02.41 | Fisker | Apparently you get tons of enjoyment out of dismissing opinions as trolling |
| 20:02.48 | Fisker | So I would disagree |
| 20:03.11 | Esamynn|work | I'll consider your option when you present something to back it up beyond "I said so" |
| 20:03.16 | Esamynn|work | opinion* |
| 20:03.20 | Fisker | Same |
| 20:03.33 | Fisker | Yet I'm the troll supposedly |
| 20:03.34 | Esamynn|work | [12:58] <+Esamynn|work> it is deflationary by its very nature which is utterly destructive in any economy |
| 20:03.38 | Gnarfoz | that's just a statement |
| 20:03.43 | Fisker | Exactly |
| 20:04.11 | jleclanche | Gnarfoz: the site is dead. |
| 20:04.15 | jleclanche | so dead. |
| 20:04.19 | Kalroth | http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-doesnt-have-a-deflation-problem-2014-2 |
| 20:04.33 | Gnarfoz | I got a css-less page, but I can already see they invalidated my login session already |
| 20:04.40 | jleclanche | yeah |
| 20:04.41 | jleclanche | same |
| 20:04.43 | Gnarfoz | so... have to log in again, but that page is unvailable, too! :D |
| 20:06.16 | Esamynn|work | that argument only holds so long as you don't treat bitcoin as a currency, but rather as a means of carrying out transactions which are ultimately valued in some other standard way |
| 20:06.25 | Kalroth | yes |
| 20:07.14 | Kalroth | bitcoin wont replace fiat currency, like ever |
| 20:07.43 | Fisker | You shouldn't troll so much Kalroth :( |
| 20:08.00 | Esamynn|work | and yet, people treat it like a currenty |
| 20:08.02 | Kalroth | but just like fiat currencies coexist just fine, there's no reason that bitcoin (and other cryptcoins) can't coexist either |
| 20:08.02 | Esamynn|work | currency* |
| 20:08.11 | Kalroth | dunno, they aren't a currency here |
| 20:08.27 | Gnarfoz | not here either |
| 20:08.32 | Kalroth | in fact i don't think they're treated as a currency in many countries |
| 20:08.43 | Gnarfoz | is it treated as one in any country? |
| 20:08.46 | Esamynn|work | I don't mean in law |
| 20:08.57 | Kalroth | oh then how? |
| 20:09.13 | Esamynn|work | people retain bitcoins as store of value |
| 20:09.21 | Kalroth | sure, that's an investment |
| 20:09.23 | Kalroth | like stocks |
| 20:09.39 | Gnarfoz | it's just like "real" money. which has no value of its own. :P |
| 20:10.02 | Gnarfoz | (even less so "now" that it's not backed by anything. so really, what's the difference?) |
| 20:10.11 | Esamynn|work | the primary difference is what economists call liquidity |
| 20:10.50 | Kalroth | and banks don't have liquidity problems? :) |
| 20:10.51 | Esamynn|work | between a stock and a currency |
| 20:11.31 | Mr_Rabies | also stability and general acceptance |
| 20:11.47 | Esamynn|work | which is what makes them work as an accepted, reasonable store of value |
| 20:12.17 | Kalroth | stability isn't much of an issue when you use it for fiat transfers, eg. fiat -> bitcoin -> fiat in less than a day |
| 20:12.31 | Kalroth | general acceptance will always be slow for something new |
| 20:12.35 | Esamynn|work | the entire financial system is really just an intricate construct of smoke and mirros |
| 20:12.37 | Kalroth | but it's getting there |
| 20:12.43 | Mr_Rabies | as long as a currency relies on "whoever's got the most and/or fastest computer designed to make spacebux", no one's gonna give a shit or give it any value whatsoever, it'll just rapidly fluctuate in its tiny community of "expert investors" |
| 20:12.46 | Esamynn|work | s/mirros/mirrors/ |
| 20:13.05 | Gnarfoz | so add something else that has no actual value to it... nothing really changes |
| 20:13.08 | Kalroth | you're missing the point of mining, Mr_Rabies |
| 20:13.09 | Gnarfoz | just one more variety of bullshit :p |
| 20:13.29 | Esamynn|work | but the value provided from mining drops every day |
| 20:13.41 | Esamynn|work | which is why some consider bitcoin to be akin to a ponzi scheeme |
| 20:13.41 | Mr_Rabies | whoever first called bitcoins "Dunning-Krugerrands" deserves a congressional medal of honor |
| 20:13.55 | Gnarfoz | from the congress of what? |
| 20:14.04 | Mr_Rabies | space |
| 20:14.05 | mikma | tharper: http://imgur.com/gallery/O0lQW |
| 20:14.11 | Kalroth | the point is that there's a limited amount of digital coins available and they get harder to attain, so it's not an unlimited well of fake cash |
| 20:14.14 | Gnarfoz | space congress sounds legit, I approve |
| 20:14.22 | Kalroth | like certain african dollars :) |
| 20:14.29 | tharper | haha some of those look really tasty |
| 20:14.35 | Esamynn|work | Kalroth: which is precisely the problem with it |
| 20:14.42 | Esamynn|work | and what makes it deflationary |
| 20:14.44 | Kalroth | no, thats the idea of it |
| 20:15.00 | Kalroth | if you could just create new coins, they'd be worthless |
| 20:15.10 | Esamynn|work | yes, that's the other extreme |
| 20:15.14 | Esamynn|work | and neither works |
| 20:15.24 | Kalroth | but the crypto and p2p parts ensures that your coin(s) are unique |
| 20:15.27 | Mr_Rabies | when the bitcoins "run out" is when absolutely no one outside of the current crew of linux nerds, drug dealers, and idiots will care about them |
| 20:15.42 | mikma | tharper: some of those are tasty, ie. mämmi. looks like shit, sure, but it's awesome with sugar and cream |
| 20:15.45 | Kalroth | bitcoins ran out a long time ago |
| 20:15.47 | Esamynn|work | inflation is a _necessary_ part of a modern economy |
| 20:15.52 | Gnarfoz | ohhh. |
| 20:15.56 | Gnarfoz | (it's not) |
| 20:16.03 | Fisker | You realize the entire issue of deflation isn't the currency's fault but rather the people using it right? |
| 20:16.30 | Esamynn|work | the entire concept of value in ANYTHING is the fault of people :P |
| 20:16.36 | Kalroth | using it, investing against it, the backing governments being shitty, etc. etc. |
| 20:16.55 | Kalroth | there are many factors of deflation |
| 20:17.10 | Gnarfoz | can the wildstar website fix itself pld |
| 20:17.10 | Gnarfoz | s |
| 20:17.14 | Gnarfoz | I want to do something else :P |
| 20:17.25 | Esamynn|work | but a cap on the absolute amount of bitcoins in circulation will FORCE deflation |
| 20:17.32 | Kalroth | or inflation? |
| 20:17.32 | Esamynn|work | regardless of any other factor |
| 20:17.35 | nevcairiel | Gnarfoz: didnt you want to just play |
| 20:17.49 | Gnarfoz | sure |
| 20:17.49 | Gnarfoz | but |
| 20:17.52 | Gnarfoz | you know how it is |
| 20:17.58 | Gnarfoz | Esamynn|work: and that's intentional |
| 20:18.03 | Esamynn|work | inflation is caused by exactly the opposite, an expanding total money supply |
| 20:18.57 | Esamynn|work | Gnarfoz: I don't see your point |
| 20:19.06 | Gnarfoz | I don't see yours :o |
| 20:19.20 | Gnarfoz | you keep saying an intentional design decision is a central flaw |
| 20:19.40 | Gnarfoz | so you're ignoring, from the start, that the creator(s) of this might have a differing opinion on that |
| 20:19.43 | Gnarfoz | (duh?!) |
| 20:20.11 | Gnarfoz | it doesn't need to conform to our more-or-less working system |
| 20:20.16 | Esamynn|work | remember I mentioned that some ppl believe bitcoin is really a ponzi scheme for exactly that reason |
| 20:20.45 | Gnarfoz | that's... yes? so you did |
| 20:20.57 | Mr_Rabies | reminds me that i haven't been to buttcoin.org lately |
| 20:21.05 | Gnarfoz | hmm butts. |
| 20:21.10 | Kalroth | http://www.rickackerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/D-Mark.jpg 100 million mark! |
| 20:21.24 | Gnarfoz | filename is wrong! |
| 20:21.42 | Kalroth | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/50_millionen_mark_1_september_1923.jpg fine! |
| 20:21.58 | Gnarfoz | filename is... ambiguous enough to not be wrong |
| 20:21.59 | Esamynn|work | I fully acknowledge that the cap on the supply of bitcoins is intentional and not a design flaw |
| 20:21.59 | Gnarfoz | :| |
| 20:22.17 | Esamynn|work | I'm arguing that the theory behind such a "feature" is flawed and cannot work |
| 20:22.21 | Gnarfoz | (they're Reichsmark, not Deutsche Mark, is what I'm saying ;)) |
| 20:22.27 | Kalroth | :D |
| 20:22.40 | Gnarfoz | Esamynn|work: are you aware of any other attempts at such a system? |
| 20:22.55 | Esamynn|work | the gold standard |
| 20:23.13 | Kalroth | http://img.pr0gramm.com/2014/05/13/d6545f8691456921.png speaking of germany |
| 20:23.15 | Gnarfoz | so... what's the Gold in Bitcoin's case? |
| 20:23.28 | Esamynn|work | bitcoin itself |
| 20:23.30 | Mr_Rabies | i can get behind dogecoins though, since they're intentionally hilarious |
| 20:23.38 | Mr_Rabies | instead of just accidentally hilarious |
| 20:23.38 | Esamynn|work | bitcoin is essentially the same as using gold as a currency |
| 20:23.48 | Mr_Rabies | except gold has an inherent value~ |
| 20:23.49 | Kalroth | gold standard best standard |
| 20:23.54 | Kalroth | no it doesn't |
| 20:24.01 | Mr_Rabies | it's actually used to create things |
| 20:24.05 | Kalroth | i bet you think diamonds got an inherent value too |
| 20:24.07 | Esamynn|work | Mr_Rabies: hold on... inherent value? |
| 20:24.11 | Mr_Rabies | there's value in everything that is used to create things |
| 20:24.13 | Gnarfoz | gold has value because of its rarity |
| 20:24.19 | Gnarfoz | same as Bitcoin might one day |
| 20:24.25 | Gnarfoz | (which is how Esamynn's comparison works) |
| 20:24.39 | Gnarfoz | (or, one way it works, at least) |
| 20:24.50 | Mr_Rabies | if i could build semiconductors out of bitcoins, maybe |
| 20:24.55 | Esamynn|work | the entire notion of value in any sense is a human delusion |
| 20:25.19 | Gnarfoz | Kalroth: I love those |
| 20:25.25 | Esamynn|work | doesn't matter if we're talking about bitcoins, diamonds, gold, or the US dollar |
| 20:25.27 | Kalroth | country balls <3 |
| 20:25.38 | Kalroth | the entire notion of existing is a human delusion |
| 20:25.40 | Gnarfoz | my balls have intrinsic value |
| 20:25.43 | Kalroth | we're all atoms |
| 20:25.43 | foxlit | (any guesses as to how far back one would have to scroll to find some actual wow ui-related conversation?) |
| 20:25.44 | Gnarfoz | because I can create things with them |
| 20:25.45 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 20:25.47 | *** join/#wowuidev cogwheel (~vashfish@WoWUIDev/WoWProgramming/morlando/cogwheel) |
| 20:25.53 | Gnarfoz | foxlit: two... weeks |
| 20:25.55 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 20:25.57 | Mr_Rabies | sure, to a point, but in a capitalist society, items that are used to create other items have an inherent value, though that is definitely dependent on rarity and perceived value |
| 20:26.16 | Esamynn|work | Kalroth: that's a far more philosophical statement |
| 20:26.39 | Esamynn|work | Mr_Rabies: exactly my point |
| 20:26.45 | Mr_Rabies | still, even if we found a giant meteor made of gold that dispersed itself evenly across every square foot of earth, it'd still have value because it's a physical object that is used to make things |
| 20:26.48 | Gnarfoz | and yet, the big capitalist societies of today have opted to not base their currencies on the value of such items |
| 20:26.52 | Esamynn|work | gold was abandoned as a currency for a reason. bit coin has the same problem |
| 20:27.12 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, i'm not saying gold should be used as a currency or even a backing for a currency |
| 20:27.19 | Mr_Rabies | but it does have a value |
| 20:27.21 | Esamynn|work | the limited supply makes it ultimately deflationary |
| 20:27.26 | Esamynn|work | deflation is destructive |
| 20:27.29 | Gnarfoz | gold was abandonded as currency for the reason that the US couldn't print more money without having more gold, but they still wanted to do so! :P |
| 20:27.31 | Mr_Rabies | so do trees, and corn |
| 20:27.47 | Mr_Rabies | and sand |
| 20:27.52 | Gnarfoz | lovely sand |
| 20:27.56 | Esamynn|work | Gnarfoz: that's an overly simplified explanation |
| 20:28.00 | Gnarfoz | I'm aware |
| 20:28.02 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 20:28.13 | Gnarfoz | I'm just wasting my time until this website starts working |
| 20:28.21 | Esamynn|work | :P |
| 20:28.26 | Amarande | well, with bitcoin, it's probably not deflation per se to be worried about |
| 20:28.32 | Gnarfoz | the actually good names are probably long gone by now |
| 20:28.43 | Amarande | it's the fact that eventually the whole operation is more or less doomed to grind to a halt and leave all bitcoin holders broke |
| 20:28.53 | jleclanche | Gnarfoz: the site is still meh |
| 20:29.08 | Gnarfoz | some peeps in #wildstaruidev got in, apparently |
| 20:29.09 | Amarande | not so much a Ponzi scheme in the traditional definition, but someone still gets stuck holding the bag in the end, and you can clearly see the darkness at the end of the tunnel from much earlier on |
| 20:29.23 | Mr_Rabies | it's freenode |
| 20:29.29 | Mr_Rabies | freenode gonna freenode |
| 20:29.41 | Gnarfoz | much free, very node? |
| 20:29.47 | Amarande | the problem is the fact that bitcoin transactions don't actually *finish* unless people keep mining to maintain the blockchain |
| 20:30.08 | Amarande | atm, people are compensated for this by being awarded a portion of the remaining stock of bitcoins for completing a block |
| 20:30.11 | Gnarfoz | I want more "Last Week Tonight with John Oliver" |
| 20:30.20 | Gnarfoz | but... I have to wait for the week to finish |
| 20:30.29 | Amarande | however, once those are all gone, the only way to incentivise people to mine is going to be through actual transaction fees |
| 20:30.30 | Esamynn|work | that would be another problem, where is the incentive to continue maintaining the block chain once the money supply runs out? |
| 20:30.45 | Gnarfoz | there's more than enough idealists around :D |
| 20:30.55 | Amarande | which will probably rise and rise and rise until eventually bitcoin becomes worthless because no one is willing to put their compute in to continue the chain for a small enough price for it to be worth transacting |
| 20:30.57 | Gnarfoz | also, transaction fees, I think? (I don't remember) |
| 20:31.02 | Esamynn|work | idealism only gets you so far in the real world |
| 20:31.06 | Gnarfoz | HAH |
| 20:31.09 | Mr_Rabies | the fact that this happened further makes me think i fell and hit my head in my sleep a month or so ago and i'm in a coma dreaming insane shit http://giant.gfycat.com/FearlessUnfoldedHermitcrab.gif |
| 20:31.10 | Gnarfoz | tell that to some of the idealists! |
| 20:31.13 | Amarande | at which point your coins are no good because you can't transact them without too much of a loss |
| 20:31.21 | Esamynn|work | Gnarfoz: why would I waste my breath? :P |
| 20:31.25 | Mr_Rabies | er http://gfycat.com/FearlessUnfoldedHermitcrab |
| 20:31.37 | jleclanche | Mr_Rabies: dude, dont use gfycat |
| 20:31.41 | jleclanche | you make people sad |
| 20:31.44 | Mr_Rabies | why not |
| 20:31.45 | jleclanche | people with kittens |
| 20:31.47 | Gnarfoz | no, you make people happy |
| 20:31.50 | Gnarfoz | because no gifs |
| 20:32.01 | jleclanche | use mediacru.sh; gfycat is a scummy company |
| 20:32.05 | Mr_Rabies | i mean technically that came from a gif but i cba to find the real source |
| 20:32.08 | Mr_Rabies | why's that, jleclanche |
| 20:32.25 | Gnarfoz | because it's free, forever |
| 20:32.40 | Gnarfoz | (which certainly means there's no company at all behind it!) |
| 20:32.57 | jleclanche | Mr_Rabies: mediacrush is open source and privacy conscious (https only and more, see their about page) |
| 20:33.28 | Mr_Rabies | they're gonna peek into my dogecoin gifs i found on google image search nooooooooooooooooooooooooo |
| 20:33.33 | jleclanche | Mr_Rabies: gfycat is a company that threw a few tens of thousands of dollars in marketing for a cutesy site with cat in the name "cause we love you guys i swear" |
| 20:33.51 | Mr_Rabies | you really think they spent that much on marketing? |
| 20:34.06 | jleclanche | not sure on tens, but definitely thousands yes |
| 20:34.09 | Gnarfoz | more importantly |
| 20:34.11 | Gnarfoz | you think we care? |
| 20:34.12 | Gnarfoz | :p |
| 20:34.13 | Mr_Rabies | i'd be surprised if they even had that much, are there even ads? |
| 20:34.22 | jleclanche | there arent which really is the whole point |
| 20:34.27 | Mr_Rabies | besides, i use pomf.se if i care |
| 20:34.45 | Gnarfoz | he's talking about gfycat, with the ads |
| 20:34.49 | jleclanche | nobody spends thousands on a site idea they got from someone else "just cause i felt like it" |
| 20:35.16 | jleclanche | and Gnarfoz there's a reason I'm insistant on this. you should care |
| 20:35.27 | Gnarfoz | yeah, the reason is: you're an idealist. |
| 20:35.44 | jleclanche | that is such a fucking cop-out |
| 20:35.46 | Gnarfoz | (there is nothing wrong with that) |
| 20:36.14 | jleclanche | you have a product which is in every way better than another; the other product being the result of a scummy company putting money in marketing |
| 20:36.23 | jleclanche | and you're like "you're an idealist for liking the former!" |
| 20:36.24 | jleclanche | what |
| 20:36.54 | Mr_Rabies | 1. i don't really see how marketing is inherently evil |
| 20:36.54 | Gnarfoz | why are they "scummy" |
| 20:36.58 | Gnarfoz | who is "the company" even |
| 20:37.04 | Mr_Rabies | 2. I don't really believe they spent thousands on it anyway |
| 20:37.14 | Gnarfoz | why is mediacrush in 'every way better' if both achieve their goals |
| 20:37.37 | Mr_Rabies | literally almost every company i give money to on a daily basis spends money on marketing, and you're terrible at being a company if you don't |
| 20:37.39 | Dagmar | The same way Obama is sneaking into homes and stealing old people's medication |
| 20:37.43 | Gnarfoz | as ever, developers (and idealists, especially though those who are both) fail to see that users *don't give a shit* if it works |
| 20:37.54 | jleclanche | Gnarfoz: mediacrush is open source, supports more formats, doesn't lossily compress, supports up to 50Mb and doesn't have stupid urls |
| 20:38.06 | Gnarfoz | imgur is better than photobucket and tinypic, yet, those are still being used |
| 20:38.31 | jleclanche | i'm not talking to tinypic and photobucket users, I'm talking to you two |
| 20:38.58 | jleclanche | I dont like when people reply to reasonable arguments with "regular people won't care!" |
| 20:39.07 | jleclanche | i have different arguments when I talk to "regular people" |
| 20:39.09 | jleclanche | I'm talking to you |
| 20:39.16 | Mr_Rabies | they don't even do the same thing |
| 20:39.26 | Mr_Rabies | mediacrush seems to be a simple filehost |
| 20:39.33 | Gnarfoz | I don't care if it's open source, I haven't tried any formats sites I've used before can't handle, I don't care about recompression (either I'm not affected, or I'm not using it as a high-quality image publishing platform) (the filesize limit is the same argument), and what is a "stupid URL" |
| 20:39.37 | Mr_Rabies | whereas gfycat will convert youtube videos easily |
| 20:39.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Ressy (~Ressy@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ARL/Ressy) |
| 20:39.43 | Mr_Rabies | to webm or gif |
| 20:39.48 | jleclanche | Mr_Rabies: no, mediacrush converts gifs to videos (they're the original host behind that) |
| 20:40.08 | jleclanche | Mr_Rabies: gfycat does a small subset of what mediacrush does |
| 20:40.13 | Mr_Rabies | converting gifs to video is kinda pointless other than maybe saving a little filesize |
| 20:40.30 | jleclanche | Gnarfoz: gfycat only supports .gifs ffs |
| 20:40.31 | Mr_Rabies | converting say, youtube videos to webm clips is actually something i can use |
| 20:40.43 | jleclanche | Gnarfoz: whereas mediacrush supports several hundreds |
| 20:40.43 | Gnarfoz | jleclanche: so? I don't need it to support anything else |
| 20:40.51 | Mr_Rabies | doesn't seem that's possible for mediacrush |
| 20:40.54 | jleclanche | yeah, you dont have any jpgs or pngs |
| 20:40.55 | jleclanche | nice |
| 20:41.00 | Gnarfoz | what other format would I want mediacrush to convert to a video? |
| 20:41.01 | Gnarfoz | jpeg? |
| 20:41.06 | Mr_Rabies | let me know when mediacrush can do that and i'll use it |
| 20:41.29 | jleclanche | Gnarfoz: mediacrush is an imgur replacement, its not a "convert to a video" site. it converts gifs to videos because videos are better |
| 20:41.29 | Gnarfoz | why would I use gfycat for jpegs or pngs? that's what I use imgur for! :p |
| 20:41.34 | Mr_Rabies | literally 100% of my usage of gfycat is clipping youtube videos into webm |
| 20:42.23 | jleclanche | oh for fucks sake, wildstar logged me out after like 5 mins |
| 20:42.45 | Gnarfoz | I like that, by the very existence of mediacrush, there's a basically "turnkey", installable image host available now, with a ton of features... for when the day comes that I actually want to run one myself |
| 20:42.58 | Mr_Rabies | http://zippy.gfycat.com/ObeseCandidAmurminnow.webm |
| 20:43.00 | Mr_Rabies | there you go |
| 20:43.03 | Mr_Rabies | can't do that on mediacrush |
| 20:43.05 | Gnarfoz | that's almost the only benefit I, personally, get from mediacrush |
| 20:43.22 | jleclanche | Gnarfoz: you dont *have* to run one yourself, you can just use mediacrush... |
| 20:43.39 | jleclanche | Gnarfoz: also something they dont advertise, mediacrush uses predictive hashing |
| 20:43.41 | Gnarfoz | I didn't say I have to, I said it's the only benefit I personally see from it |
| 20:43.45 | jleclanche | so all identical files will always have the same hash |
| 20:43.58 | jleclanche | meaning you can easily export stuff in/out of mediacrush |
| 20:44.03 | jleclanche | Mr_Rabies: https://mediacru.sh/76CBvbHnDPkB |
| 20:44.08 | Gnarfoz | I'm not sure if I even like that as a feature |
| 20:44.38 | Gnarfoz | because it means it's easy to track who's looking at a certain image, because everyone is necessarily always loking at the same copy of it |
| 20:44.56 | Gnarfoz | (I'm not saying they are; they might; as might I if I ran it) |
| 20:45.01 | Mr_Rabies | how do you access that part of mediacrush, i tried pasting youtube videos into it and nothing |
| 20:45.23 | Mr_Rabies | just said invalid url |
| 20:45.41 | jleclanche | i cant look into this now i have a radio interview in like 5 mins |
| 20:45.57 | Mr_Rabies | http://zippy.gfycat.com/AggressiveLikableIberianlynx.webm |
| 20:46.20 | Gnarfoz | anyway, currently, videos go on youtube (I could just host them myself), images go on imgur (same applies), gfycat I don't actually use, I just have a little "oh neat, I wont have to wait for this 30 MB gif to load!" moment every time I see a link... so... yeah? that's basically it |
| 20:47.03 | Mr_Rabies | i just use gfycat as a youtube->webm clipper |
| 20:47.18 | Gnarfoz | I don't see how mediacrush improves upon those functionality-wise besides maybe putting both onto one service (does the 50 MB limit apply to videos? I'd hope not) |
| 20:47.53 | Mr_Rabies | converting gifs to webm is kind of just nerd ocd to feel better about something i guess |
| 20:48.04 | Mr_Rabies | you're still limited to 256 colors and other gif issues |
| 20:48.07 | Mr_Rabies | the file's just smaller |
| 20:48.19 | Gnarfoz | the other "improvements" (open source, run by "someone", presumably not an evil company, currently free, higher limits (even though I have no problems with the existing ones on other services)... don't really sway me, currently ;) |
| 20:48.26 | Dagmar | 256 colors is a GIF limitation |
| 20:48.37 | Gnarfoz | the file being smaller /is/ the improvement, Mr_Rabies |
| 20:48.43 | jleclanche | a HUGE improvement |
| 20:48.45 | Mr_Rabies | i guess |
| 20:48.47 | jleclanche | i dont think you realize |
| 20:48.50 | Gnarfoz | I spent the last 4 years on shit-ternet |
| 20:48.57 | Mr_Rabies | i've got pretty shitty internet |
| 20:49.09 | Mr_Rabies | used to be about 3Mbit, got the line fixed so i'm up to 6Mbit |
| 20:49.15 | Gnarfoz | then I wonder how you dismiss it so easily |
| 20:49.19 | Mr_Rabies | and still, gifs really aren't -that- bad other than their color limitations |
| 20:49.29 | jleclanche | GET http://rest.wildstar-online.com/api/gnpnr?callback=jQuery111001464717867784202_1400014160381&_=1400014160382 503 (Service Unavailable: Back-end server is at capacity) |
| 20:49.30 | jleclanche | meh |
| 20:49.37 | Gnarfoz | jleclanche: yes :( |
| 20:49.40 | Mr_Rabies | because it stil takes a second or two to load most gifs |
| 20:49.43 | Gnarfoz | second?! |
| 20:49.50 | Gnarfoz | maybe if you look at a 10 frame gif or so |
| 20:50.07 | Gnarfoz | well, it's certainly not a problem for short-short gifs |
| 20:50.24 | Mr_Rabies | i mean yeah, webm's better, but gifs are perfectly fine if you're using a gif as the source anyway |
| 20:50.33 | Mr_Rabies | the real benefit is the greater use of color |
| 20:50.39 | jleclanche | Gnarfoz: got it |
| 20:50.45 | jleclanche | I think i reserved it |
| 20:50.53 | Gnarfoz | Mr_Rabies: http://i.imgur.com/GgGuUyl.gif ! :P |
| 20:50.56 | Gnarfoz | jleclanche: w00t |
| 20:51.09 | Mr_Rabies | took like two seconds to load on 6Mbit |
| 20:51.26 | Gnarfoz | yes, that's an example of a short gif. :P |
| 20:51.40 | jleclanche | that gif loads fucking slowly here |
| 20:51.41 | Gnarfoz | but I linked it as an example of the other reason gifs might load quickly: image dimensions |
| 20:51.43 | Mr_Rabies | most gifs are <1 Mbit that i'd encounter |
| 20:51.46 | jleclanche | its really awful |
| 20:51.55 | Gnarfoz | file sizes in megabits? what |
| 20:51.55 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 20:52.00 | jleclanche | theres like 7 seconds during which im looking frame-by-frame |
| 20:52.02 | jleclanche | https://mediacru.sh/BfzHCnOQttxH |
| 20:52.03 | jleclanche | here |
| 20:52.07 | jleclanche | this loads instantly |
| 20:52.19 | jleclanche | 715% smaller.. yeah |
| 20:52.20 | Gnarfoz | yes, the "meh it caught up to the part that's not loaded, yet" is the really annoying experience |
| 20:52.22 | Mr_Rabies | http://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1398921683773.gif |
| 20:52.37 | Mr_Rabies | i think that's more of a rendering problem, honestly |
| 20:52.37 | jleclanche | this is a very small color palette |
| 20:52.40 | kd3 | oof, twitch just fell over |
| 20:52.50 | Gnarfoz | kd3: another day in paradise |
| 20:52.56 | Mr_Rabies | it'd be better if browsers would wait for the full gif to load but i guess it may be a limitation of the filetype |
| 20:53.11 | Mr_Rabies | er |
| 20:53.16 | Mr_Rabies | Megabytes, rather, Gnarfoz |
| 20:53.17 | Mr_Rabies | blol |
| 20:53.18 | jleclanche | yeah Mr_Rabies this is only 281% smaller: https://mediacru.sh/sEbzcFgi1MRD |
| 20:53.32 | Mr_Rabies | and that 281% means practically nothing to me |
| 20:53.38 | jleclanche | .. yes |
| 20:53.39 | Mr_Rabies | it's like, 3 seconds versus 1 second |
| 20:53.47 | Gnarfoz | jleclanche: clicking the huge login button still does nothing for me :( |
| 20:53.48 | jleclanche | in this instance it means nothing |
| 20:53.57 | jleclanche | the other one you linked, thats a huge difference |
| 20:54.00 | jleclanche | Gnarfoz: log in from the main site |
| 20:54.02 | jleclanche | Gnarfoz: from / |
| 20:54.08 | Mr_Rabies | also that video is just straight up not playing for me jleclanche |
| 20:54.08 | jleclanche | then refresh the page here |
| 20:54.21 | jleclanche | Mr_Rabies: you should do https://survey.mediacru.sh/ |
| 20:54.23 | Gnarfoz | their shitty email authentication thing annoys me to all hel |
| 20:54.42 | Mr_Rabies | it's taking an eternity to load where the gif took like 3 seconds |
| 20:54.43 | Mr_Rabies | sooooooooooooo |
| 20:54.49 | Mr_Rabies | gif wins i think! |
| 20:55.01 | Mr_Rabies | there it goes |
| 20:55.06 | Mr_Rabies | that took literally like 30 seconds what |
| 20:55.56 | jleclanche | http://diablom.incgamers.com/blog/comments/alex-mayberry-leaves-blizzard |
| 20:55.57 | jleclanche | WOAH |
| 20:56.27 | jleclanche | (also, that is a really nice mobile site to browse on desktop) |
| 20:56.37 | Gnarfoz | jleclanche: meh, after entering the security code for the 11th time, the next page I saw was... again the login form (but with extra, broken css buttons) |
| 20:57.09 | Mr_Rabies | stuff like this is where webm is better: http://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1398565115187.webm |
| 20:57.24 | Gnarfoz | yay, my RAM is on its way |
| 20:58.11 | Mr_Rabies | that file would be enormous and look TERRIBLE in gif |
| 20:59.11 | Gnarfoz | that video just does nothing |
| 20:59.23 | Gnarfoz | sits there at 1 little blip loaded and nothing happens :\ |
| 20:59.57 | Gnarfoz | does the NIC for .sh have a webwhois |
| 20:59.59 | Gnarfoz | >_> |
| 21:00.13 | Gnarfoz | "whois mediacru.sh" returns garbage for non-ascii characters |
| 21:01.57 | Gnarfoz | lolol, again with the "login, security code, back to login form but with extra login fields" thing |
| 21:02.00 | Gnarfoz | I'm getting tired :p |
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| 21:30.25 | Amarande | aaaauuuggghhhhhh. I must now go undergo trials to cleanse myself |
| 21:30.33 | Amarande | I clicked on a Ten Ton Hammer page on a google search :( |
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| 21:44.50 | TC-Work | jleclanche: do you know if django handles CGI? |
| 21:45.11 | jleclanche | what do you mean "handles"? django is wsgi |
| 21:45.14 | jleclanche | cgi is bad |
| 21:45.18 | Mr_Rabies | djangooooooooooooooo |
| 21:45.37 | TC-Work | handles as in can I point to one in a view? |
| 21:45.39 | Mr_Rabies | literally everytime someone mentions django i get the song stuck in my head |
| 21:45.46 | TC-Work | as long as the server can render it |
| 21:46.13 | TC-Work | and the reason I prefer cgi is so I do not have to use java. |
| 21:46.23 | Gnarfoz | (...what) |
| 21:47.05 | TC-Work | was that 'what' at me? |
| 21:47.34 | Gnarfoz | yes |
| 21:48.00 | Gnarfoz | what are you talking to via cgi that the alternative is... java? |
| 21:48.28 | Gnarfoz | (and by "java" what do you even mean? jetty? tomcat? weblogic? ^^) |
| 21:48.36 | TC-Work | sorry, I meant js |
| 21:48.54 | Gnarfoz | and by that you mean node.js? |
| 21:50.18 | TC-Work | no idea |
| 21:50.52 | Gnarfoz | I wish my friend would convert his couple of cgi perl script so something else, so I can throw away apache |
| 21:51.52 | End_ | a while ago I found a cgi wsgi app that someone wrote you could probably adapt, but ugh cgi |
| 21:52.00 | TC-Work | since my stuff is all internal and one offs, it is much easier to write them in cgi and have the python on the page then calling out to external files. |
| 21:52.14 | End_ | I think django has an decorator that can convert wsgi apps into views |
| 21:52.47 | Gnarfoz | TC-Work: I know that feel |
| 21:52.48 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 21:53.11 | End | (I mean, a wsgi app that would call a cgi program you specify) |
| 21:53.33 | Gnarfoz | I guess I could just put another httpd in front of his scripts that *does* cgi and be done with it) |
| 21:53.46 | End | that would probably be "better" |
| 21:54.06 | Gnarfoz | everything's better than keeping Apache around just because nginx doesn't do cgi :D |
| 21:54.29 | TC-Work | I'm surprised someone has not written something for it. |
| 21:55.17 | End | people tend to avoid cgi, for good reason |
| 21:55.25 | End | by these days anyway |
| 21:56.41 | TC-Work | And in general that is a good idea, but for what I do, it makes things much more complicated. |
| 21:57.44 | jleclanche | TC-Work: it depends on your server, but this isnt something you want, trust me |
| 21:58.29 | TC-Work | And in this case I agree. But only because I belated realized this map I was working on was mostly in JS....totally for got about that. |
| 21:59.48 | TC-Work | converting this all into django is going to be a massive pita however. |
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| 22:03.04 | Gnarfoz | TC-Work: which is why you'll never do it, hehe |
| 22:03.30 | TC-Work | Yes I will, it's for work. |
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| 22:07.10 | End | TC-Work: you might be able to use this: http://svn.w4py.org/Paste/trunk/paste/cgiapp.py and then use the resulting wsgi app with this: https://pythonhosted.org/twod.wsgi/embedded-apps.html to turn the resulting wsgi app into a django view |
| 22:07.37 | End | I'm not super keen on that course of action, but it'd probably get you the fastest results |
| 22:08.27 | TC-Work | That looks interesting but I will just convert it. And see how unhappy I can make jleclanche with the butchery I do to it. |
| 22:10.53 | TC-Work | "jleclanche: How do I call a PHP file from JS that has embedded Python to do a popen and run a bash script, then return all the data?" heh. |
| 22:11.02 | Gnarfoz | please do |
| 22:11.33 | End | he's going to murder you in your sleep |
| 22:11.35 | End | just |
| 22:11.36 | End | gyi |
| 22:11.37 | End | fyi* |
| 22:11.59 | Gnarfoz | cgi* |
| 22:12.26 | End | D: |
| 22:13.43 | TC-Work | Worth it. |
| 22:18.56 | Gnarfoz | g0urra: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Fusion_(Americas)#Hybrid_electric_version ... I get close to that efficiency on my 2004 (!) Citroen diesel oO |
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| 22:22.14 | g0urra | ..what |
| 22:23.07 | Gnarfoz | facebook related! |
| 22:23.07 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 22:24.14 | g0urra | oh you're Wiese |
| 22:24.48 | Gnarfoz | so I am! |
| 22:24.57 | nevcairiel | he got you there |
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| 22:36.37 | MiRai | Changes to CVars in combat (change for 5.4.8) - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/12674209697 |
| 22:36.45 | MiRai | not sure if that's interesting info or not :) |
| 22:39.31 | Amarande | MiRai: "interesting" info, probably, in the sense of the famous Chinese saying :p |
| 22:39.52 | Amarande | looks like we're looking forward to another one of those minor-seeming little point patches where an inordinate number of addons break :( |
| 22:40.07 | Amarande | glad I'm waiting till 6.0 to rejoin WoW, heh |
| 22:43.38 | Amarande | though I'm not really familiar enough with *exactly* what each cvar does to figure out what it's going to break |
| 22:44.53 | Amarande | Looks like unit framey stuff, and unit frame addons will all have to be updated for WoD anyway no matter what, if nothing else for aesthetic reasons (accommodating 3-digit levels gracefully, mainly) |
| 22:52.34 | Mr_Rabies | looks like mostly trying to fix the compactraidframe taint and some shenanigans with nameplates? |
| 22:52.42 | sylvanaar | when is the WoD beta going to start |
| 22:52.52 | sylvanaar | shouldn't it be soon? |
| 22:53.00 | Mr_Rabies | it's gonna have a much smaller beta than MoP |
| 22:53.01 | Kesava | quite |
| 22:53.14 | Mr_Rabies | shorter and fewer people |
| 22:53.27 | Mr_Rabies | i felt the long, pretty much open beta of MoP was a mistake |
| 22:53.44 | sylvanaar | it was too open you are right |
| 22:54.14 | Amarande | "shenanigans" with nameplates? |
| 22:54.21 | Amarande | that's one thing that always makes me scratch my head with some of these changes |
| 22:54.48 | Amarande | that apparently it's understood it's used to fix some sort of shenanigans or exploit, but I can't quite figure out exactly what it could have been abused in a profitable manner for |
| 22:55.00 | Mr_Rabies | probably some kind of stuff you can do to aid in automation with the nameplates or something |
| 22:55.17 | Amarande | either much of this stuff is only of use in advanced raiding, or else I'm too honest of a player to even be able to consider such things |
| 22:55.20 | Stanzilla | there is exploit-ish stuff with nameplates atm |
| 22:55.22 | Stanzilla | this fixed it |
| 22:55.46 | Mr_Rabies | maybe you can make them take up the whole screen but be hidden and use mouseover stuff to automate too much or something |
| 22:55.51 | Mr_Rabies | hell if i know |
| 22:56.27 | Amarande | like that bit with buff clickoffs that basically was the death knell for EBB (sometimes I still miss EBB :() |
| 22:56.40 | Amarande | and apparently I had no idea about it being a problem because apparently it only was for groups that had shadowmourne :P |
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| 22:57.50 | Stanzilla | (just no) |
| 23:01.05 | Amarande | I suppose it often bugs me because it seems like an awful lot of time the extent of breakage caused by the fix seems like it's much more far-ranging on far more players than the actual effects of the potential exploit were to begin with |
| 23:01.32 | Amarande | but then, perhaps I don't think in the right line of reasoning to care and feed an MMO ... which is probably just fine, because I don't manage an MMO :S |
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