| 00:01.38 | znf | http://i.imgur.com/w1sI97m.png |
| 00:01.41 | znf | wow, this is pissing me off |
| 00:05.41 | Amarande | Primer: hey, that's better than some early relationships between Wine and Blizzard games |
| 00:05.58 | Amarande | at least you didn't get accidentally banned, as has been known to happen with just about every other Blizz game during its early days in Wine :p |
| 00:11.35 | znf | aaaaand OmniCC has no concept of priorities when it comes to its rules :( |
| 00:16.06 | Amarande | huh? you must be doing something with OmniCC that I don't, heh |
| 00:16.56 | Amarande | I pretty much just use it to get the visible cooldown timers on my action buttons :S |
| 00:17.38 | znf | Amarande, yeah, well, it supports rules |
| 00:17.57 | znf | so you can blacklist frames, or have different settings (think colors, fonts, sizes etc.) |
| 00:18.06 | Semlar | that's what you get for not using my clearly superior addon |
| 00:18.24 | Primer | "The problem can be fixed on the latest wine version as well by setting the "msvcp100 (native then builtin)" dll override in winecfg." worked |
| 00:20.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Razernok (~Razernok@71-91-125-249.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) |
| 00:24.07 | Razernok | hi |
| 00:24.27 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 00:34.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Ressy (~Ressy@69-165-233-29.cable.teksavvy.com) |
| 00:34.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Ressy (~Ressy@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ARL/Ressy) |
| 00:37.56 | airtonix | Primer: wine is not an emulator |
| 00:38.28 | airtonix | Primer: also. winetricks verbs. learn how to make them |
| 00:39.30 | airtonix | Primer: https://github.com/airtonix/wine-verb-arma2server |
| 00:41.01 | airtonix | the fire rises brother |
| 00:42.35 | Primer | eh? it's working...I'm done fucking with it |
| 00:44.03 | airtonix | i hope you put it in its own prefix |
| 00:44.14 | airtonix | only bad linux users put everything in ~/.wine |
| 00:44.34 | airtonix | i posit that ~/.wine shouldn't even exist |
| 00:44.50 | kd3 | winebz, go! |
| 00:45.50 | znf | Semlar, well, I'll ask again - can your addon display different font-sizes (and colors) on different frames? :P |
| 00:45.54 | Primer | I've never had issues that required much fucking with it |
| 00:46.12 | airtonix | you're bad. you should feel bad. |
| 00:46.22 | Semlar | the size of the font is entirely based on the size of the frame it's attached to |
| 00:46.27 | Primer | If it ain't broke... |
| 00:46.36 | airtonix | but it is |
| 00:46.43 | airtonix | you just don't know it yet |
| 00:46.44 | Primer | <Primer> eh? it's working...I'm done fucking with it |
| 00:46.58 | Primer | please |
| 00:47.01 | airtonix | if you have it in ~/.wine... then it's broken |
| 00:47.04 | Primer | I've been using wine way longer than you have |
| 00:47.14 | airtonix | how long have i been using wine? |
| 00:47.19 | Primer | since 1996 |
| 00:47.20 | Primer | you? |
| 00:47.28 | jleclanche | I'm french |
| 00:47.31 | airtonix | a day before that |
| 00:47.32 | Primer | oui |
| 00:47.37 | jleclanche | i was born with a bottle of wine in my hand |
| 00:47.46 | znf | Semlar, and I don't want that :) |
| 00:47.56 | Semlar | picky |
| 00:48.13 | znf | Semlar, that works fine with "normal" fonts. If you use fixed fonts (or pixel, or monospaced, however you want to call them), that will look like crap :) |
| 00:48.15 | airtonix | hey if we asked the oil industry if it was a broken, what would they say? |
| 00:48.20 | jleclanche | Primer: ive never seen that issue though, did you have it working before? |
| 00:48.29 | Primer | jleclanche: no |
| 00:48.45 | Semlar | i highly doubt omnicc is designed to work correctly with pixel perfect fonts |
| 00:49.01 | jleclanche | Primer: try rm agent.db somewhere in your %appdata% |
| 00:49.02 | Primer | jleclanche: enabling that msvcp100 fixed it |
| 00:49.07 | jleclanche | hm |
| 00:49.11 | jleclanche | that doesnt make much sense |
| 00:49.29 | Primer | don't know what to say |
| 00:49.37 | Semlar | the only way to keep it from anti-aliasing the font is to line it on a pixel boundary |
| 00:49.45 | Arrowmaster | how old is your wine |
| 00:49.54 | Primer | all I know is I've played two matches against my son so far and it's been fine |
| 00:49.55 | znf | Semlar, well, I can untick "scale" :) |
| 00:50.00 | znf | and used a fixed font-size |
| 00:50.02 | Semlar | that won't be enough |
| 00:50.03 | Primer | 1.7 from wine's ubuntu ppa as of today |
| 00:50.04 | znf | and define rules based on target |
| 00:50.11 | airtonix | why is it that everyone does everything WRONG! |
| 00:50.19 | jleclanche | Arrowmaster: it's a Chateau LaCarte Mille Neuf Cent QUantre Vingt Treize |
| 00:50.20 | airtonix | wrong dammit... wrong! |
| 00:50.25 | Primer | http://www.ceregatti.org/download.old/desktop/desktop4.gif |
| 00:50.28 | jleclanche | Quatre* |
| 00:50.31 | jleclanche | wow, keyboard |
| 00:50.34 | Primer | 04-Jan-1997 |
| 00:50.36 | Semlar | when the font is attached to a frame by a point it can end up on a fraction of a pixel and the game just rounds off where it thinks it should go |
| 00:51.05 | Arrowmaster | jleclanche: any idea why i get a directx9 error trying to run hearthstone |
| 00:51.12 | jleclanche | Arrowmaster: what error? |
| 00:51.21 | airtonix | Primer: your ui is bad |
| 00:51.22 | znf | Semlar, well, so far so good: http://i.imgur.com/WKR1gcZ.png |
| 00:51.36 | Primer | airtonix: you did note the date I posted afterwards, right? |
| 00:51.46 | Primer | but yes, I agree, it's bad |
| 00:51.48 | jleclanche | Primer: who uses gif. |
| 00:51.58 | Primer | such bad trolling |
| 00:51.59 | kd3 | someone from the 90s? |
| 00:52.02 | znf | 1997 used gif :D |
| 00:52.25 | Primer | http://www.ceregatti.org/download.old/desktop/desktop5.gif |
| 00:52.27 | jleclanche | you know, Im not sure what would affect my browsing experience the most: --without-gif or --without-flash |
| 00:52.39 | znf | --without-gif |
| 00:52.41 | znf | ofc |
| 00:52.45 | Primer | there's one from the next day, 05-Jan-1997 |
| 00:52.51 | Arrowmaster | jleclanche: first part is GL: failed to choose pixel format for dc 2d004b |
| 00:52.51 | znf | all those animated gifs around the web |
| 00:53.00 | znf | couldn't live without them! |
| 00:53.37 | Primer | heh, was running it as root too! |
| 00:53.38 | Primer | haha |
| 00:53.57 | jleclanche | Primer: fix your font settings your AA looks like shit |
| 00:54.25 | jleclanche | Arrowmaster: ive never seen any of those errors with hearthstone... |
| 00:54.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (~Daniel@c-67-160-127-180.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 00:54.41 | VIad | "I have more pictures of my children, than my father ever looked at me." xD |
| 00:54.50 | znf | Semlar, the actual problem I'm having is that OmniCC's slider actually supports half-pixels and such on the "offset" function, but the slider displays integers only, heh |
| 00:55.27 | Primer | jleclanche: I don't think anything had AA back then |
| 00:56.11 | jleclanche | Primer: for someone who had msword on wine working in 96 you're really bad at singling out bad jokes |
| 00:57.51 | znf | or, hmmm, actually not. figured out what's wrong! :D |
| 00:59.07 | airtonix | lol |
| 00:59.14 | airtonix | ^ i lol'd |
| 01:01.16 | znf | Semlar, ok, how do you explain this - 2 frames next to each other, on one frame the text is 1 pixel higher |
| 01:01.21 | VIad | watching standup with Jim Gaffigan. he is funny :) |
| 01:01.25 | znf | How does that make sense? |
| 01:01.31 | znf | 2 of the same size frames |
| 01:01.43 | Semlar | different number being displayed |
| 01:01.57 | znf | uhm, doubt it, it never changes the position while it goes from 20 to 0 |
| 01:02.00 | znf | same base-align |
| 01:02.24 | znf | *but* |
| 01:02.40 | znf | all texts on the same position suffer from the same issue, it seems |
| 01:02.55 | znf | if I have 3 auras with cooldowns, let's say the first is the one with the skewed text |
| 01:03.10 | znf | 1st aura expires, 2nd takes its place in the frame, now this one will have a skewed text |
| 01:04.34 | znf | wonder if it's because my frame is 25 pixels and sometimes it rounds up and sometimes it rounds down |
| 01:07.45 | Semlar | you can try making the font size half a pixel larger |
| 01:08.02 | Semlar | or anchor it half a pixel off center |
| 01:08.09 | znf | http://i.imgur.com/f1Niqrc.png |
| 01:08.10 | znf | heh |
| 01:08.24 | znf | there's a serious bug there |
| 01:08.47 | Semlar | looks like it isn't being anchored correctly |
| 01:10.08 | znf | Hmm. This is only happening while I mess around with it. If I reload UI, everything seems to be good. |
| 01:10.39 | Primer | jleclanche: when the level of bad is so bad, they are to be taken seriously |
| 01:10.56 | jleclanche | Primer: you also have a shitty resolution |
| 01:11.18 | znf | jleclanche, almost like it was 1997 :P |
| 01:11.36 | jleclanche | what is this, reverse trolling? |
| 01:15.46 | znf | is it? :o |
| 01:17.08 | airtonix | yes sir. |
| 01:17.27 | airtonix | do you have a license to operate that troll? |
| 01:17.28 | znf | Hmm. How do I change the font used for stack count? |
| 01:18.41 | phelps | can I get the charges on a mana gem ? |
| 01:18.44 | phelps | without tooltip scanning |
| 01:19.22 | znf | phelps, is it displayed on the icon? |
| 01:20.14 | znf | doesn't have a mana gem :( |
| 01:21.13 | znf | phelps, GetItemCount("Mana Gem",nil,1) |
| 01:21.56 | znf | haven't tested, no mage :( |
| 01:22.41 | airtonix | no one plays mages anyway |
| 01:23.10 | phelps | znf, worked. thanks |
| 01:35.41 | kd3 | holy crap: http://www.kltv.com/story/25370795/television-station-evacuated-on-live-tv-as-tornado-bears-down-on-city |
| 01:37.35 | airtonix | today won't be boring after all! |
| 01:56.39 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~nevin@c-174-63-97-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 01:56.39 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 02:01.12 | znf | Funny |
| 02:01.12 | znf | http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/12673197448 |
| 02:01.18 | znf | this guy is trying to do the same thing as I"m doing |
| 02:01.21 | znf | in the same time! |
| 02:02.48 | pompy | http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/28/us-cybersecurity-microsoft-browser-idUSBREA3Q0PB20140428 lol the "The Department of Homeland Security's U.S. Computer Emergency Readiness Team" is "involved" |
| 02:04.03 | airtonix | just take a shortcut to "uninstall windows && install ubuntu" |
| 02:04.22 | pompy | heh |
| 02:04.46 | TC-Work | s/ubuntu/something on an rpm platform/ |
| 02:04.54 | airtonix | fuk rpm |
| 02:05.01 | airtonix | with a shotgun |
| 02:05.14 | airtonix | you know the ones that don't use salt |
| 02:05.17 | airtonix | or bean bags |
| 02:06.49 | airtonix | TC-Work: why are you so insensitive? |
| 02:07.04 | TC-Work | airtonix: because I am an asshole. |
| 02:07.38 | airtonix | way to be a krej |
| 02:11.39 | znf | looks at TC-Work |
| 02:11.41 | znf | spits on TC-Work |
| 02:11.57 | znf | bundles TC-Work together into a .rpm with 1000 dependencies |
| 02:23.59 | pompy | http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/04/arianespaces-vega-dzz-hr-satellite-launch/ derp |
| 02:25.39 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 02:31.07 | znf | I give up. I have no idea how to change the font on the BT4 hotkey |
| 02:32.50 | airtonix | sharedmedia |
| 02:32.52 | airtonix | do it |
| 02:33.19 | znf | that doens't help |
| 02:33.53 | airtonix | then it means bt4 is a bad piece of software |
| 02:34.06 | airtonix | there are better hotbar addons too |
| 02:34.42 | znf | no. |
| 02:34.45 | airtonix | yes |
| 02:34.45 | znf | bt4 master addon |
| 02:34.51 | airtonix | no, you are bad |
| 02:34.56 | airtonix | you should feel bad |
| 02:35.08 | znf | <insert something about your mom> |
| 02:35.22 | znf | if I do /run NumberFontNormalSmallGray:SetFontObject("GameFontHighlight") |
| 02:35.27 | znf | the action key changes |
| 02:35.31 | airtonix | you're probably the worst kind of person to use SUperAawesomeSeriouslyCoolStoryBroBossMods |
| 02:35.49 | znf | but if I create my own font object and pass that, there's no change :-( |
| 02:37.03 | airtonix | it's because you're bad |
| 02:37.15 | airtonix | didn't westablish this? |
| 02:51.48 | Shirik | oh google, why do you hate me so |
| 02:52.04 | Shirik | google protocol buffers are almost perfect |
| 02:52.13 | Shirik | they have everything I need except the overhead might just be too much |
| 02:54.00 | znf | how much are we talking about? |
| 02:54.18 | Shirik | 1 byte per field |
| 02:54.41 | Shirik | 2 bytes sometimes |
| 02:54.49 | Shirik | but if you do it efficiently, 1 byte per field |
| 02:58.14 | znf | that doesn't sound as much, but I have no idea at what scale you work at |
| 03:01.39 | Shirik | if you assume 4 bytes per integer, that's 25% overhead |
| 03:01.46 | Shirik | look at it that way |
| 03:02.04 | Shirik | of course that assumes everything is an integer, which isn't entirely fair, but I think it's a pretty good average |
| 03:02.29 | Shirik | now, that being said, it also does some pretty sweet compression tactics, like that 4 byte integer might become a 1 byte payload, so with overhead you actually save 2 bytes |
| 03:03.59 | airtonix | i wish ~/.ssh/config had an include/import/require facility |
| 03:04.14 | Shirik | at the end of the day it's really hard to tell, so I think I have to actually perform the conversion and compare on a real data set |
| 03:04.16 | Shirik | and see what happens |
| 03:07.21 | airtonix | http://superuser.com/questions/247564/is-there-a-way-for-one-ssh-config-file-to-include-another-one |
| 03:07.34 | airtonix | lol: sshconfigfs |
| 03:08.22 | Shirik | alias ssh='ssh -F <(cat .ssh/config ~/.ssh/foo.config)' |
| 03:08.25 | Shirik | ow |
| 03:08.34 | Shirik | I kinda want to punch him |
| 03:08.36 | airtonix | jleclanche: is there a pythong streaming thing i can spool up that processes some files on demand |
| 03:08.52 | airtonix | bit like `compass watch` |
| 03:09.13 | airtonix | but for general files and pretty much just interpolates @require "./some/file" |
| 03:09.21 | airtonix | or i could write my own |
| 03:09.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (~Iriel@173-8-135-209-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 03:09.45 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 03:09.52 | airtonix | don't kick me |
| 03:10.07 | airtonix | i mean upvote |
| 03:10.37 | airtonix | Shirik: https://github.com/markhellewell/sshconfigfs |
| 03:11.01 | Shirik | holy shit |
| 03:11.02 | airtonix | that file scheme |
| 03:11.05 | airtonix | makes me sad |
| 03:11.10 | Shirik | someone created a filesystem for ssh configs? |
| 03:11.12 | Shirik | seriously? |
| 03:11.23 | airtonix | yeah i have about 60 hosts in mine |
| 03:11.33 | airtonix | i would like to split it up |
| 03:12.21 | Shirik | I want to punch that guy too |
| 03:12.32 | Iriel | It’s a cute trick but still.... |
| 03:12.38 | Iriel | seems a bit excessive |
| 03:12.42 | Shirik | "I could write a patch for openssh to add the feature of multiple files" |
| 03:12.48 | Shirik | "but instead I'LL WRITE A FILESYSTEM" |
| 03:12.57 | Iriel | “I could write a script to assemble my config and run it when I make changes" |
| 03:13.27 | airtonix | Shirik: can you please submit a patch that allows for `@import "./some/file"` |
| 03:13.31 | airtonix | plz |
| 03:13.39 | airtonix | comeonguy |
| 03:13.50 | airtonix | guy |
| 03:13.59 | Shirik | first I need to figure out if protocol buffers is amazing or terrible |
| 03:13.59 | airtonix | sigh |
| 03:14.06 | airtonix | oh ok |
| 03:14.23 | Iriel | Shirik: it’s somewhere int he middle depending on what your problem is |
| 03:14.33 | Iriel | Shirik: it’s not a silver bullet |
| 03:14.37 | Shirik | oh you missed that conversation |
| 03:14.41 | Shirik | I'm worried about the overhead |
| 03:15.12 | Iriel | Didn’t one of the protobuf developers write a followup with less overhead? |
| 03:15.21 | Shirik | orly? |
| 03:15.22 | Iriel | (No idea how that did, protobuf didn’t solve MY problems) |
| 03:15.28 | Iriel | I think so, let me see if I can find it |
| 03:16.25 | airtonix | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openssh/+bug/739495 |
| 03:16.35 | Iriel | May have been cap’n proto: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fkentonv.github.io%2Fcapnproto%2F&ei=VRlfU5WhOcGhyAT7o4KwCQ&usg=AFQjCNF4l_frFT9V7R4O9spXvr3or6Fbag&sig2=kBIfVyjL4Iicaf0GJt-PjQ&bvm=bv.65636070,d.aWw |
| 03:17.10 | Iriel | Shirik: out of interest what problem ARE You trying to solve? |
| 03:19.08 | Shirik | haha infinity % faster |
| 03:19.55 | airtonix | ugh fuse approach is dumb. |
| 03:19.58 | Shirik | so the problem I am trying to solve is to make a particularly crappy protocol more efficient. I'm stuck with the message format, but often times the messages fields that are irrelevant or not filled in |
| 03:20.04 | airtonix | have to stop it before you can edit |
| 03:20.19 | Shirik | protobuf would solve that problem nicely by allowing me to simply leave out those useless fields, and the use of varints also helps with compressing it down a bit |
| 03:20.24 | Shirik | but the overhead might offset all the gains |
| 03:20.40 | Shirik | it's also an extensible protocol so there's that too |
| 03:20.47 | Shirik | as in, it might have more things added to it later |
| 03:27.50 | kd3 | wow rng |
| 03:28.02 | kd3 | blackthorne's notched belt #3 |
| 03:28.32 | pompy | kd3: gimmeh witching hour please and thank you. |
| 03:28.41 | pompy | if thats what its even called :P |
| 03:33.49 | Amarande | pompy: alas, but trade is almost completely banned in the realms of Sanctuary now! :( |
| 03:34.28 | airtonix | plz Shirik |
| 03:40.04 | pompy | Amarande: you just drop the gear o n the ground and i pick it up |
| 03:41.15 | pompy | gold cant be traded at all :P |
| 03:43.31 | airtonix | i just had an idea for angularjs + github + github api + private repos = authenticated content? |
| 03:43.47 | airtonix | uing github pages of course |
| 03:48.54 | Razernok | well, FML |
| 03:50.03 | znf | has an idea with airtonix |
| 03:50.56 | Razernok | good for you |
| 03:51.36 | airtonix | oh ok |
| 03:51.45 | airtonix | you sound like a nice person |
| 03:51.47 | Amarande | pompy: I thought most gear was made BoA now, unless being given to someone in the same game that it was found in |
| 03:51.55 | Amarande | much like group trading on instance loot in wow |
| 03:52.18 | Amarande | like you can't anymore do the "hey, try D3, it's really cool, here's some of my spare gear to get you going" routine like you could in D2 or in 1.x D3 |
| 03:52.43 | Jamash | if by "most" you mean "legendary" |
| 03:53.40 | znf | by "most" he means gear that actually matters :P |
| 03:53.44 | znf | also, reforging an item makes it boa |
| 03:54.44 | Amarande | it kinda seems kind of a mistaken priority on blizzard's part to me |
| 03:55.14 | Amarande | yeah, gold/gear selling is a problem, but 1) why is it so suddenly such a problem *now*, it's pretty much perpetually been, and I don't think it's gotten any notably worse or better lately than before |
| 03:55.58 | Amarande | and 2) is it enough of a problem that curbing it ought to be more important than actually, you know, obtaining new customers? (since yeah, a common scenario that runs afoul of the BoA thing is that you can't give gold/items to a friend who's just starting out, like you could in D2, or you could at least do with gold in WoW) |
| 03:56.15 | Amarande | especially with a Diablo game, where they ONLY get money when someone new buys the game |
| 03:56.34 | Amarande | it's not like WoW where you have existing subscribers to lose if you screw up the balance of things :) |
| 03:57.41 | Jamash | I understand everything they did except disallow trading of gold |
| 03:57.47 | Jamash | it seems nonsensical |
| 03:58.27 | Amarande | or is there some other impact that gold selling has besides its direct impact on the game itself, that makes it elevated to public enemy number one even above customer/sales matters? |
| 03:58.31 | Jamash | I mean I guess it put an end to gold selling in the same sense that chopping your foot off will cure your toenail fungus |
| 04:00.45 | Jamash | now that there's no AH and you can't trade gold or legendaries there's even less excuse for it being online only |
| 04:00.51 | Amarande | I've heard claims that gold selling does everything from fund white slavery to possibly incurring money-laundering related regulatory red tape to halitosis, heh |
| 04:01.41 | Amarande | yeah, it's practically become a single player game that you play with other people, if one can somehow grok that :P |
| 04:03.50 | Amarande | dammit, you know what I hate in MMOs |
| 04:03.59 | Amarande | when you queue for a group finder, you sit there and sit there as DPS and finally you get a pop |
| 04:04.17 | Amarande | and before you can even click the damn thing ... "a potential group member has declined the invite, back in the queue you go, sucka" |
| 04:09.39 | znf | wish I could filter only _my own_ auras with SUF's aura filter :-/ |
| 04:11.59 | pompy | http://www.law360.com/articles/530406/gaming-motherboard-makers-face-false-ad-class-action |
| 04:12.27 | znf | heh |
| 04:12.34 | znf | didn't see that coming /s |
| 04:12.46 | znf | or, well, I actually didn't, but whoever was gullible enough to believe that... |
| 04:13.17 | znf | so, asrock and asus ^^ |
| 04:15.40 | Neffi | I can sue because advertising material oversold me with bullshit? I'm gonna be rich! |
| 04:16.28 | znf | technically you should be able to, as it should fail under "false advertising" |
| 04:16.52 | znf | False advertising, in the most blatant of contexts, is illegal in most countries. However, advertisers still find ways to deceive consumers in ways that are legal, or technically illegal but unenforceable. |
| 04:18.04 | Neffi | I dont see this holding up any more than I see a suit against McDonalds holding up because the real burgers look a lot smaller and worse then the commercials |
| 04:18.19 | Neffi | Else pretty much all advertising would have to be thrown out |
| 04:18.46 | znf | yeah, ofc it won't |
| 04:19.27 | Trela | Neffi: "Picture enlarged to show texture." |
| 04:21.22 | Neffi | Trela: Never seen the video of how they make the commercials? It's not enlarged. The burger is quite literally engineered, and may include things like pine sol floor cleaner. |
| 04:21.50 | Trela | Neffi: I saw it and I am a photographer. I do dirty tricks all the time. :) |
| 04:22.05 | Neffi | even though each piece is technically real food allegedly from their stock, the whole creation is the furthest thing from that |
| 04:22.45 | Razernok | FML |
| 04:24.08 | znf | Didn't they make a video explaining the process and why they're doing it? |
| 04:24.29 | Iriel | I think the problem is when someone prints an actual specification they can’t meet |
| 04:24.48 | pompy | http://wccftech.com/nvidia-gtx-titan-z-postponed-date/ lols |
| 04:24.56 | Iriel | That’d be like claiming the burger was made of beef but actually making out of sawdust and food coloring |
| 04:26.34 | znf | well, this is all they're "claiming": http://www.asrock.com/feature/XFast/xfastlan/index.asp |
| 04:26.46 | Neffi | beef or "beef"? there's a legal distinction in the US |
| 04:27.05 | Neffi | "100% beef" only needs to contain like 1/5th actual beef meat, or some such |
| 04:27.18 | znf | "motherboards with promises to increase network speeds and improve graphics quality that were impossible to keep" |
| 04:28.30 | Trela | Truthful: "Provides consistent 100% network throughput by providing a dedicated lane bus." Unable to deliver: "150% 1gbit speeds!" |
| 04:28.55 | znf | slaps pompy |
| 04:28.58 | znf | link the full article: http://www.law360.com/commercialcontracts/articles/530406/gaming-motherboard-makers-face-false-ad-class-action |
| 04:30.36 | Neffi | znf: "To view the full article, take a free trial now." |
| 04:30.44 | Neffi | I refuse to give into this nonsense |
| 04:30.49 | znf | huh? |
| 04:30.54 | znf | I see it just fine? |
| 04:30.58 | znf | no trial thingie |
| 04:31.06 | znf | oh. |
| 04:31.07 | znf | ha |
| 04:31.12 | znf | I refreshed and the trial thing popped up |
| 04:31.13 | znf | wth :D |
| 04:31.25 | znf | what a fail website |
| 04:31.34 | znf | if you google the article and click on the link, it shows you the full article |
| 04:31.36 | Neffi | So it's a paywall and a poorly done one? Let's stop giving it traffic |
| 04:31.39 | znf | if you refresh, it's back to "click thingie" |
| 04:32.27 | znf | there http://i.imgur.com/rsnRd4t.png |
| 04:32.27 | znf | :P |
| 04:33.56 | znf | mmm, I really don't see any way of filtering out only some of my own auras on a target with SuF :( |
| 04:34.00 | znf | makes feature request |
| 04:34.50 | kd3 | oh here we go. the big front's about to hit |
| 04:35.05 | znf | the what in the there? |
| 04:35.07 | znf | where* |
| 04:35.22 | kd3 | atlanta |
| 04:35.23 | Neffi | znf: "Presently this is impossible" I don't think this is a serious article |
| 04:43.09 | pompy | znf: "To view the full article, take a free trial now." |
| 04:43.13 | pompy | noty.jpg |
| 04:43.31 | znf | pompy, just see the png |
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| 04:59.49 | airtonix | did you manually join that? or is some addon? |
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| 04:59.54 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tardmrr] by ChanServ |
| 04:59.55 | NullEntity | I am having the weirdest bug. Is there any way to get at debug.getinfo or is there an equivalent function? |
| 05:00.02 | airtonix | so many scroll bars |
| 05:00.18 | Neffi | NullEntity: no |
| 05:00.26 | NullEntity | ;~; |
| 05:00.42 | tardmrr | 4 heroic garrosh kills and NO ONE in our group has gotten any heirlooms yet |
| 05:00.57 | tardmrr | this is crap. |
| 05:02.54 | airtonix | why you got to be mad |
| 05:03.06 | airtonix | it's only game |
| 05:06.36 | NullEntity | I'm mad cause I have an addon conflicting with Altoholic :( |
| 05:07.06 | airtonix | oh you're mad too? |
| 05:07.19 | airtonix | tell me more about that |
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| 05:08.06 | NullEntity | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTi7oOPaB4Y |
| 05:10.15 | airtonix | fortunately i don't have time to look at your carefully captured and uploaded video. |
| 05:10.16 | Amarande | meh, I've pretty much got used to having a very limited assortment of heirloom weapons |
| 05:10.29 | Amarande | I have the PvP 2H sword and the PvE bow on Turalyon and that's about it |
| 05:10.49 | airtonix | wow needs perma death |
| 05:10.56 | NullEntity | ^ |
| 05:10.59 | airtonix | and looting player bodies |
| 05:11.07 | Gethe | nope |
| 05:11.13 | airtonix | oh yes |
| 05:11.18 | airtonix | oh yes yes yes yes |
| 05:12.35 | airtonix | it would certainly cut down on pugs lol |
| 05:12.48 | Amarande | airtonix: heh, that would make a lot of sad LK mount seekers |
| 05:12.57 | Amarande | and a lot of sad Shadowmourne goodie bag hunters |
| 05:12.57 | airtonix | yes! |
| 05:13.07 | airtonix | that would also mean legendary loot would mean something |
| 05:13.19 | Amarande | at least, until enough expansions pass that we're so ridiculously godly that Fury of Frostmourne isn't enough to take us out, LOL |
| 05:13.32 | Amarande | my estimates are that will occur sometime around ... probably WoD actually, heh |
| 05:13.45 | airtonix | well it's all relative yes? |
| 05:13.57 | Amarande | well, assuming that they keep things scaled as they've promised with the stat squish |
| 05:14.18 | Amarande | i.e., that they're doing it so what you're capable of now will be the same as what you're capable of post squish, just with smaller numbers |
| 05:16.05 | Amarande | considering how much health raiders have at the end of MoP |
| 05:16.21 | Amarande | and that Fury of Frostmourne does ... dangit, was it 800k or 1M |
| 05:16.36 | Amarande | doesn't really matter, either way, scaling-wise, we can expect HP in WoD to easily pass FoF's damage |
| 05:17.21 | Gethe | yeah in relative terms WoD will have ~2x the health |
| 05:17.51 | airtonix | we also need to get back to being able to kill high level players with copper daggers and no armor |
| 05:17.56 | Amarande | yeah, and tanks were already passing 600k at least a tier ago |
| 05:18.09 | Amarande | looking at a random tank I pulled from armory ... http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/chogall/Pr%C3%ADmetime/simple |
| 05:18.52 | Amarande | airtonix: no thanks, I'd like to see future Horde players still be able to get venomhide ravasaurs without having to start a new character or jump off a cliff to get rez sickness :) |
| 05:19.20 | Gethe | wat |
| 05:19.31 | Amarande | not to mention implications for loremaster on high level characters, heh |
| 05:19.44 | Amarande | Gethe: if we were able to "kill high level players with copper daggers and no armour" as airtonix suggested |
| 05:20.03 | Gethe | no the mount thing, why res sickness? |
| 05:20.14 | Amarande | that would mean you'd never be able to do the getting-poisoned quest for the ravasaur, for instance, because you'd be doomed to one-shot all the raptors unless you went and jumped off a cliff to get rez sickness |
| 05:20.19 | Amarande | so that your damage would be slashed enough |
| 05:20.32 | Gethe | ah yeah |
| 05:20.41 | Amarande | loremaster would be a problem too, because you'd keep one-shotting everything that you need to reduce to low health and then use the MacGuffin on :) |
| 05:20.54 | Gethe | good thing i did that quest in cata |
| 05:21.11 | Gethe | still had to remove my weapon though |
| 05:21.38 | Amarande | and I s'pose we should be super glad we don't have to train weapon skills anymore, because we'd have to slaughter untold hordes just to do that LOL |
| 05:21.49 | Amarande | certainly my old tactic would probably not work :) |
| 05:22.01 | Gethe | yeah im glad that's gone |
| 05:23.16 | Amarande | my usual tactic would be (especially on caster classes, where it was just about the achievement since you never really did decent damage in melee anyway) |
| 05:23.24 | Amarande | to go out to a place like Badlands and start bashing on earth elementals |
| 05:23.29 | airtonix | you're just mad that a guy in underpants and a copper dagger kept you in lockdown |
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| 05:23.52 | Amarande | mainly because they had high armour, so they could each take a lot of hits before having to go find another mob, while they were also low level enough to not be a danger meanwhile |
| 05:24.41 | Amarande | heh. maybe that also contributed to my foot-dragging when it came to going to Outland on new characters, though. the fact that I spent so much time in badlands |
| 05:24.54 | Amarande | the problem being that hellfire just feels *old* by the time you even get there |
| 05:25.29 | Amarande | as horde, anyway. you start in durotar ... hey, red rocks. then you pass through barrens, hey here's some more red rocks. then you go to badlands later, hi there red rocks ... then eventually blasted lands on your way to outland, oh, here's some red rocks for a change |
| 05:25.39 | Amarande | oh hey! outland! maybe it will be new and unique! |
| 05:25.44 | Amarande | SORRY SUCKER HERE ENJOY SOME MORE RED ROCKS |
| 05:26.34 | Amarande | Apparently, someone at Blizzard *really* likes red rocks |
| 05:32.13 | Amarande | come to think of it I don't think I've seen any other game universe that had anywhere near as many red rockscapes as Warcraft |
| 05:32.35 | Amarande | except for that one part in FF7, and of course Planescape Torment, but in the latter you were actually in hell at that point so it was expected |
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| 05:36.48 | Semlar | sir i'm going to have to ask you to calm down |
| 05:37.38 | airtonix | calm ze titties |
| 05:37.54 | airtonix | my nipples, zay bouncy bounce |
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| 06:50.03 | airtonix | so znf |
| 06:50.07 | znf | yes |
| 06:50.12 | airtonix | am i to trust asrock? |
| 06:50.25 | znf | *shrug* |
| 06:50.27 | znf | I haz asrock |
| 06:50.33 | airtonix | it seems to be a brand name of sturdy fortitude |
| 06:51.06 | airtonix | add gold, triples the performance |
| 06:51.19 | airtonix | are these monster hdmi cables? |
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| 07:15.49 | airtonix | Shirik: how do you feel about Hekaton ? |
| 07:16.37 | Shirik | no opinion on it because I really don't work with databases |
| 07:17.09 | airtonix | oh |
| 07:17.16 | airtonix | i thought you were a microsoft redcoat |
| 07:18.48 | Shirik | just because I am doesn't mean I follow every one of their 50000000 technologies |
| 07:18.58 | Shirik | like who the fuck pays attention to TFS |
| 07:19.04 | airtonix | ohhh, you don't deny it then? |
| 07:19.17 | Shirik | er, not TFS |
| 07:19.18 | airtonix | what's tfs? |
| 07:19.23 | Shirik | what's that shitty version control they had for a while |
| 07:19.33 | Shirik | sourcesafe |
| 07:19.34 | Shirik | that thing |
| 07:19.36 | airtonix | was it before the time of CVS? |
| 07:19.48 | airtonix | Cervasia |
| 07:19.55 | Shirik | probably not |
| 07:21.19 | nevcairiel | isnt TFS also a version control thing |
| 07:25.05 | Shirik | nevcairiel: It's a bit more than that |
| 07:25.21 | Shirik | it has version control but it also is a more complete project management system like with jira and such |
| 07:26.16 | nevcairiel | i was a bit surprised though that MS added Git support to their IDE |
| 07:26.30 | nevcairiel | they dont usually go for external solutions |
| 07:26.37 | Jamash | Shirik: Source goes in, it doesn't come out? |
| 07:26.51 | Shirik | that's kinda how sourcesafe worked |
| 07:27.26 | Jamash | I liked the apache svn project switching their repo to git april fools troll |
| 07:28.09 | nevcairiel | i've never had the privilege to work with sourcesafe |
| 07:28.24 | nevcairiel | cvs was the worst i've ever had to touch |
| 07:28.44 | nevcairiel | but it also was the first way back when |
| 07:28.48 | Jamash | cvs is the fortran of version control |
| 07:28.56 | nevcairiel | no idea if svn even existed at that point |
| 07:28.56 | Jamash | or possibly cobol |
| 07:29.19 | Jamash | it certainly does allow you to check things in and out |
| 07:29.21 | airtonix | i remember using CVS 15 years ago |
| 07:29.23 | nevcairiel | must've been 12-14 years ago |
| 07:29.25 | airtonix | roughly |
| 07:29.27 | Jamash | that is a thing it does |
| 07:29.57 | Jamash | whether the process is convenient, fast, consistent or reliable is left unspecified |
| 07:30.25 | airtonix | no consistancy, no integrity |
| 07:30.31 | airtonix | not reliable |
| 07:30.35 | airtonix | doesn't get used |
| 07:31.47 | airtonix | i had someone recently tell me they are choosing to use subversion as their entry point in to learning version control |
| 07:31.56 | airtonix | i lol'd |
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| 07:32.44 | nevcairiel | its certainly easier to understand than a distributed vcs, but you should not pick one to learn it, but learn whatever you need/want to use |
| 07:34.01 | airtonix | i would argue that learning git, teaches you everything you need to know about understanding subversion |
| 07:34.06 | airtonix | but the reverse isn't true |
| 07:34.36 | airtonix | git/mercurial |
| 07:34.56 | mitch0 | better start with mercurial, it's less arcane |
| 07:35.35 | airtonix | aye |
| 07:40.53 | znf | I'd go with git; it's probably the most popular now |
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| 07:54.10 | airtonix | it's too late. this person already made their mind up because they paid for some shitty hosting (lol) that only supports subversion. |
| 07:55.04 | airtonix | i have come to the conclusion that unless there is something past your own vanity that prevents you from using something like heroku, openshift or some other docker based git deployment... |
| 07:55.31 | airtonix | why would you actively invite more workload by seeking to manage a server at the operating system level? |
| 07:56.05 | airtonix | when all you really want to achieve is develop a web application with established stack components? |
| 07:56.28 | airtonix | but hey! this is him. he chose that because wordpress is awesome yo! |
| 07:56.59 | airtonix | i aint even mad |
| 07:58.53 | Jamash | git is a steaming pile of crap |
| 08:00.02 | Jamash | or rather it's a very well designed and implemented system for exactly one user |
| 08:00.09 | Jamash | who is linus torvalds |
| 08:00.16 | airtonix | you sound mad |
| 08:00.21 | Jamash | I ain't mad |
| 08:00.21 | Kalroth | he made mac os x |
| 08:00.24 | Jamash | I just don't use git |
| 08:00.27 | Kalroth | for apple |
| 08:00.43 | Jamash | because it does not support development in a sane manner |
| 08:00.50 | Jamash | like, say, checking out one directory |
| 08:00.58 | Jamash | or checking out just the latest revision |
| 08:01.30 | Jamash | or doing anything that isn't trucking the entire history of every file that has ever existed everywhere |
| 08:01.39 | airtonix | git clone --depth=1 user@repo |
| 08:01.46 | Jamash | ha ha, very funny |
| 08:01.55 | airtonix | and why the hell would you even want to only checkout a directory |
| 08:01.58 | Jamash | 1. you can't do anything with that |
| 08:01.58 | Kalroth | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2425059/how-to-pull-specific-directory-with-git |
| 08:02.04 | airtonix | nice way to fuck up an application unit tests |
| 08:02.10 | Jamash | 2. it's still half the size of the full repo |
| 08:02.37 | airtonix | git checkout directory, because we like to commit without passing tests |
| 08:02.54 | Jamash | you realize a repo can contain more than one thing |
| 08:03.09 | Jamash | should every directory have its own repo? |
| 08:03.11 | airtonix | it shouldn't |
| 08:03.13 | Jamash | that's "convenient" |
| 08:03.39 | airtonix | its smart |
| 08:03.55 | Jamash | or hey just use the web interface to download a zip file, ie, completely bypass the actual version control system because it is not well designed |
| 08:04.09 | airtonix | what are you talking about? |
| 08:04.19 | airtonix | git doesn't have a web interface |
| 08:04.25 | Jamash | Kalroth: "sparse checkout might interest you (even though you still need to fetch everything): " |
| 08:04.32 | airtonix | gitweb is a web interface |
| 08:04.44 | Jamash | yes that's my point |
| 08:04.45 | airtonix | github is a saas implementation of a git web interface |
| 08:05.05 | Jamash | you need a completely separate software project to make git usable, by not actually using git |
| 08:05.21 | Jamash | because git is terrible |
| 08:05.29 | Jamash | it makes a fine backend for a hosted service though |
| 08:05.32 | airtonix | you're just mad... and bad |
| 08:05.34 | Jamash | aka, centralized version control |
| 08:05.40 | Jamash | woops |
| 08:06.26 | Jamash | airtonix: I'm sorry I'm annoyed that git does not support common use cases |
| 08:06.40 | Jamash | no wait I'm not sorry |
| 08:06.45 | airtonix | thatshitty workflow |
| 08:06.49 | Jamash | I'm annoyed that git does not support common use cases |
| 08:06.59 | airtonix | thats because your common use cases are shitty workflows that invite bugs |
| 08:07.10 | Jamash | you mean like wanting to download and compile something? |
| 08:07.25 | airtonix | why would you compile something thats missing most of the repo?!??! |
| 08:07.31 | airtonix | the actual fuck? |
| 08:07.42 | airtonix | i mean.... wut! |
| 08:07.54 | airtonix | it's dumb |
| 08:07.55 | Jamash | you have a very limited imagination |
| 08:08.01 | airtonix | no i can imagine it |
| 08:08.05 | Jamash | consider a project with multiple optional components |
| 08:08.07 | airtonix | i just think it's a shitty workflow |
| 08:08.14 | Jamash | should every component have its own repo? |
| 08:08.17 | airtonix | yes |
| 08:08.21 | airtonix | and it's own tests |
| 08:08.22 | Jamash | what if there are 100 of them |
| 08:08.28 | Jamash | 100 repos? |
| 08:08.28 | airtonix | the build process should pull them together |
| 08:08.42 | Jamash | that's neither practical nor sane |
| 08:08.44 | airtonix | which you automate |
| 08:08.54 | airtonix | because your components all have passing tests |
| 08:08.55 | Jamash | again, you need external tools to render git usable |
| 08:09.03 | airtonix | because its the best way |
| 08:09.06 | Jamash | because git is not actually good |
| 08:09.11 | airtonix | sigh |
| 08:09.22 | airtonix | i bet you work with php |
| 08:09.36 | airtonix | and vb |
| 08:09.38 | Jamash | tell me, how do I refer to a specific commit in a human-readable fashion? |
| 08:09.40 | Jamash | I do not |
| 08:09.48 | airtonix | and all those other derogitory languages |
| 08:09.57 | airtonix | with a tag? |
| 08:10.06 | Jamash | php and vb are badly designed and badly implemented |
| 08:10.07 | airtonix | or a hash? |
| 08:10.15 | airtonix | much like your build process |
| 08:10.16 | Jamash | git is badly designed and very well implemented |
| 08:10.26 | Jamash | you win half of a gold star |
| 08:10.28 | Kalroth | http://i.imgur.com/oIFxiod.gif |
| 08:10.33 | airtonix | i win all star! |
| 08:10.46 | Jamash | cats defy gravity! |
| 08:11.21 | Jamash | airtonix: Let me tell you about the time I wanted to download a specific linux kernel branch with an experimental driver |
| 08:11.27 | airtonix | your build process degys gravity |
| 08:11.37 | Jamash | git does not support this |
| 08:11.46 | Jamash | git supports every person in the world being a developer |
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| 08:11.56 | airtonix | party time! |
| 08:11.58 | Jamash | this is not true |
| 08:12.15 | Jamash | not every person in the world who downloads source is a developer |
| 08:12.25 | Jamash | some people want to check things out and then compile them |
| 08:12.35 | Jamash | git insists that these people either do not exist or are wrong |
| 08:12.47 | airtonix | oh i see, you want git to include visual studio |
| 08:12.56 | Jamash | I don't have any idea what you're talking about |
| 08:13.01 | airtonix | yes you do |
| 08:13.05 | Jamash | with subversion I can check something out, and then compile it |
| 08:13.09 | airtonix | git doesn't do X, i want X |
| 08:13.29 | airtonix | I have a bad habit of Y, git doesn't do Y, I want Y |
| 08:13.46 | Jamash | with git I can wait while it pulls literally the entire repository down through a protocol that doesn't support resuming interrupted transfers |
| 08:13.55 | Jamash | that's bad design |
| 08:14.09 | airtonix | http doesn't support resuming interupted transfers? |
| 08:14.18 | Jamash | yes accusing other people who have different needs of being bad is a common way to deflect valid criticism |
| 08:14.35 | Jamash | "I don't ever need to do Y, so Y doesn't matter" |
| 08:14.36 | airtonix | it's also a good way to prevent feature creep |
| 08:14.50 | airtonix | because tool K does Y |
| 08:14.57 | airtonix | ujelly? |
| 08:15.07 | airtonix | :> |
| 08:15.17 | Jamash | I mean I don't have a problem with people using git for software that nobody else will ever use |
| 08:15.25 | Jamash | which is clearly its intended use case |
| 08:15.25 | Kalroth | saying software is bad because it doesn't fit YOUR specific workflow is a common way for invalid criticism |
| 08:16.10 | Maldivia | Jamash: use archive or specify depth when cloning then? |
| 08:16.19 | Jamash | Maldivia: irrelevant/invalid |
| 08:16.27 | Jamash | I want to download today's version today |
| 08:16.33 | Jamash | I want to download tomorrow's version tomorrow |
| 08:16.44 | Jamash | git does not support this extremely common case |
| 08:16.50 | Jamash | subversion does |
| 08:16.58 | airtonix | show me an article describing the validity of cramming everything into one repo where pulling only a portion out and expecting it to compile is good. |
| 08:17.10 | Jamash | airtonix: you don't care about facts so I won't |
| 08:17.30 | Jamash | I already gave you the case of a program with optional submodules |
| 08:17.41 | airtonix | not really |
| 08:18.05 | Jamash | see just because you don't care about something doesn't mean it doesn't exist |
| 08:18.22 | airtonix | you didn't describe why it's a good idea to do that without unit tests... and if at that point it's already segregated then why isn't it in it's own repo? |
| 08:18.52 | Jamash | why is it good to have 100 repos for one project? |
| 08:18.57 | zenzio | you seem to assume that everyone uses source control rationally airtonix |
| 08:19.06 | Jamash | I don't call having 100 repos rational |
| 08:19.14 | airtonix | that's partly what i'm getting at zenzio |
| 08:19.22 | Jamash | you see, airtonix, not everyone is a developer |
| 08:19.25 | Kalroth | i don't call putting 100 projects into one repo rational |
| 08:19.27 | Jamash | users use source control too |
| 08:19.40 | Jamash | git does not acknowledge the existence of users |
| 08:19.45 | airtonix | there is a reason why angularjs no longer has ngResource in the main repo Jamash |
| 08:19.48 | Jamash | or testers |
| 08:19.53 | Jamash | or documenters |
| 08:19.57 | airtonix | lol |
| 08:19.58 | Kalroth | so your real issue is that git isn't user friendly |
| 08:20.02 | Jamash | or anyone who is not a developer |
| 08:20.09 | Kalroth | and you have to figure stuff out, like reading a manual once or twice |
| 08:20.09 | Jamash | Kalroth: No, it has fundamental technical flaws |
| 08:20.17 | Jamash | Kalroth: UI is irrelevant |
| 08:20.18 | airtonix | like? |
| 08:20.29 | Jamash | Kalroth: I can't download only the latest version |
| 08:20.31 | airtonix | please say submodules |
| 08:20.43 | Jamash | in a way that can then be updated |
| 08:20.46 | Kalroth | wait what? you can't download latest version? |
| 08:20.51 | Kalroth | why not? |
| 08:20.53 | Jamash | you get a crippled, unusable mess |
| 08:20.58 | airtonix | apparently git can't get the latest HEAD |
| 08:20.58 | Jamash | because it's impossible? |
| 08:21.02 | Jamash | I didn't design git |
| 08:21.06 | airtonix | lawl |
| 08:21.14 | airtonix | come on guy |
| 08:21.14 | Jamash | I tried to use it, which was clearly a mistake |
| 08:21.15 | airtonix | guy |
| 08:21.19 | airtonix | come on |
| 08:21.30 | Jamash | I'm describing actual problems I actually encountered |
| 08:21.35 | Jamash | Did I not encounter them? |
| 08:21.54 | Jamash | Were they a figment of my own imagination? |
| 08:22.14 | Kalroth | well for a starter, they're YOUR problems |
| 08:22.33 | Kalroth | don't blame them on git, at least not without doing some research |
| 08:22.35 | Jamash | Kalroth: And not admitting that many of your users have the same problem is willful blindness |
| 08:22.58 | Jamash | Kalroth: I shouldn't blame the problems I have with the fundamental design of git on git? |
| 08:23.05 | Maldivia | the whole idea behind DVCS is that you the full repos locally... |
| 08:23.13 | Kalroth | Not if the problems is a lack of fundamental understanding |
| 08:23.17 | Jamash | Maldivia: Yes. That's a flawed design. |
| 08:23.18 | Maldivia | so every clone in itself is a backup |
| 08:23.26 | Kalroth | are* |
| 08:23.37 | Jamash | I don't want a full backup. I don't need a full backup. A full backup is wasted bandwidth and disk space. |
| 08:23.50 | Maldivia | Jamash: then don't use DVCS... |
| 08:23.59 | airtonix | my whole point of view is that subversion allows for sloppy repos and shitty quality control |
| 08:24.13 | Jamash | Maldivia: And don't ever download source from a repo I don't personally control? |
| 08:24.17 | airtonix | with a dvcs i can automate all that |
| 08:24.27 | Jamash | airtonix: with svn you can automate all that |
| 08:24.44 | Maldivia | Jamash: if you just want source from a specific time, use the archive feature... if you want the actual repo, use clone |
| 08:24.52 | airtonix | with gitolite or gitlab i can prevent people from pushing code to certain directories in a repo |
| 08:25.06 | Jamash | Maldivia: What if I want today's version today and tomorrow's version tomorrow? |
| 08:25.17 | Jamash | This is an actual thing, that I actually experienced. |
| 08:25.44 | airtonix | git clone && git tag -v today && git clone && git tag -v tomorrow ? |
| 08:26.02 | airtonix | a naive example |
| 08:26.17 | Jamash | tell me airtonix, what fraction of the full change history of every file that has ever been in the repository does git clone download? |
| 08:26.26 | Maldivia | Jamash: in which case you want access to the repo, since you want to periodically update it -- you could go for a shallow copy so you strip history from yesterday and back though |
| 08:26.38 | Jamash | is it less than one hundred percent? |
| 08:27.04 | airtonix | this feel like trick question |
| 08:27.10 | Jamash | Maldivia: You can't update a shallow copy. |
| 08:27.11 | airtonix | i think i know this one |
| 08:27.21 | Jamash | That's bad design. |
| 08:27.38 | Jamash | Updating shallow copies is an extremely common use case |
| 08:27.51 | Jamash | I would argue that it's one of the most common use cases |
| 08:28.02 | Jamash | how often do you need the full change history? |
| 08:28.18 | Jamash | once a month? less? |
| 08:28.25 | airtonix | if the code isn't dependant on the code in the rest of the repo then why is it in the repo? |
| 08:28.31 | Kalroth | maybe you should make a shared network folder and get a developer to update it for you, Jamash |
| 08:28.59 | Jamash | Kalroth: I should share a network folder with someone in sweden working on an experimental driver for the linux kernel? |
| 08:29.10 | Jamash | Again, not everyone is a developer. |
| 08:29.10 | Kalroth | that way you can open explorer.exe and navigate to the codes and and drag todays files over |
| 08:29.16 | Jamash | Some people are users. |
| 08:29.24 | Jamash | Just because you don't like that fact does not make it less true. |
| 08:29.35 | Kalroth | some people are both |
| 08:29.41 | Jamash | that's fine for them |
| 08:29.51 | airtonix | if they aren't developers, then why are they using subversion? |
| 08:29.54 | Jamash | svn supports users and developers |
| 08:29.57 | Maldivia | Jamash: use a newer version of git then, that does support updating shallow clones |
| 08:29.59 | Jamash | git supports developers |
| 08:30.10 | Jamash | Maldivia: I was not aware of that. |
| 08:30.52 | Kalroth | Note that Git 1.9/2.0 (Q1 2014) has removed that limitation. |
| 08:30.55 | Kalroth | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6941889/is-git-clone-depth-1-shallow-clone-more-useful-than-it-makes-out |
| 08:31.07 | Kalroth | "Now that git supports data transfer from or to a shallow clone, these limitations are not true anymore." |
| 08:31.36 | Jamash | I'm glad to hear that after nine years the project is out of alpha |
| 08:31.57 | Kalroth | 5 months ago, if you'd only check the changelog, you'd save yourself from a lot of crying |
| 08:32.19 | Jamash | I'm sorry I was trying to use git in 2009? |
| 08:32.26 | Jamash | I don't know what you want from me |
| 08:32.35 | Kalroth | a little smaerts |
| 08:33.17 | zenzio | developers, such a gentle and nurturing community |
| 08:33.21 | Jamash | now, does it support resuming transfers? |
| 08:33.28 | airtonix | can i touch your boobies Jamash? |
| 08:33.30 | Kalroth | >< |
| 08:33.44 | Jamash | airtonix: are you high? |
| 08:33.52 | airtonix | are you angry? |
| 08:34.05 | Jamash | tired and annoyed |
| 08:34.16 | Jamash | it's like angry but without the anger |
| 08:34.51 | Maldivia | Jamash: could always use rsync to clone, instead of git clone :) |
| 08:34.58 | Maldivia | then you have resume support |
| 08:34.59 | airtonix | talking about shitty UI, you want to know what has shitty UI? |
| 08:35.02 | Jamash | I'm actually very pleased to hear that git is nearly feature complete |
| 08:35.06 | Kalroth | airtonix: bash |
| 08:35.10 | airtonix | nah |
| 08:35.15 | Kalroth | windows 8 |
| 08:35.25 | Jamash | airtonix: You seem to have missed the fact that I had issues with the core protocol itself which no front end could fix |
| 08:35.28 | airtonix | even bash is better than Windows (insert any number) or MacosX |
| 08:35.40 | Kalroth | anything made for KDE |
| 08:35.46 | Jamash | oh god kde |
| 08:35.52 | airtonix | i don't use kde, so i can't comment |
| 08:36.04 | Jamash | kde is windows for unix |
| 08:36.11 | Kalroth | QT based tools ported to Windows |
| 08:36.17 | Jamash | gnome is a slightly shittier windows for unix |
| 08:36.32 | airtonix | but while i was enthralled with Dayz and Arma2&3, i did find two pieces of softwaret that made Windows bearable! |
| 08:36.38 | airtonix | Cmder |
| 08:36.53 | airtonix | http://stefansundin.github.io/altdrag/ |
| 08:37.56 | Jamash | airtonix: nifty |
| 08:38.26 | airtonix | i seriously fucking hate aiming for the edges of window frames |
| 08:38.47 | Kalroth | get a decent mouse |
| 08:38.58 | airtonix | it's about as productive as being interupted by a sales person asking if i recieved their email |
| 08:39.22 | airtonix | i shouldn't even have to think about it |
| 08:39.45 | airtonix | i think there's a law about UIx that has something to do with that |
| 08:39.53 | Jamash | I've found virtuawin quite handy |
| 08:40.09 | Jamash | I have a desktop just for cookie clicker >.> |
| 08:40.29 | airtonix | yes i actually found myself sub conciously pressing ctrl alt up and down a few times |
| 08:40.37 | airtonix | and ctrl alt shift up/down |
| 08:40.48 | airtonix | then realised i wasn't in gnome shell |
| 08:40.58 | airtonix | dissapoint |
| 08:42.41 | Jamash | why can I double-click on the top border in windows 7 to maximize a window vertically, but not do the same thing horizontally? |
| 08:42.46 | Jamash | It is a mystery. |
| 08:43.11 | airtonix | because windows is a shitty user interface designed for entry level computer users |
| 08:43.23 | Jamash | perhaps one day science will explain microsoft windows |
| 08:43.37 | airtonix | well actually. |
| 08:44.03 | Jamash | until then we can only wonder that the ancients produced such marvelous yet deeply flawed pyramids^Wtechnology |
| 08:44.17 | Jamash | I'm not saying it's aliens |
| 08:44.26 | airtonix | HR |
| 08:47.56 | Jamash | HR is aliens |
| 08:50.41 | Jamash | I'm not saying git was designed by and for aliens |
| 08:50.47 | Jamash | but git was designed by and for aliens |
| 08:50.57 | Jamash | gnight folks! |
| 08:51.00 | Jamash | it's past my bedtime |
| 08:51.04 | Jamash | by about four hours |
| 09:32.47 | znf | Why the fuck does yum have to do that retarded fastestmirror every time you run it? if I run it 5 times in a row, it will do it each time |
| 09:32.55 | znf | who thought this would be a good default? :-/ |
| 09:33.14 | znf | remembers why he hates rpm based distros so much |
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| 09:54.25 | mitch0 | so don't use those? |
| 10:02.49 | znf | not my call, as this retarded cpanel shit seems to only be running on centos and some other distro |
| 10:02.55 | znf | also hates cpanel |
| 10:25.32 | karl_w_w | but it's called yum, how can you not love that |
| 10:34.15 | karl_w_w | well fuck, less than 2 weeks to mother's day |
| 10:35.09 | zenzio | seems to me like mother's day happens so many time a year |
| 10:35.22 | zenzio | could be it's just different times in different countries |
| 10:36.03 | karl_w_w | in australia it's not even the same from state to state |
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| 13:05.03 | Lopeppeppy | Morning is a torture invented by the truly devilish. |
| 13:16.47 | Thunder_Child | Well, Lucifer _is_ the bringer of dawn. |
| 13:17.46 | Lopeppeppy | Bringer of haaaaate. |
| 13:18.04 | Lopeppeppy | (The Zoo were awake all night long and therefore, so were the humans.) |
| 13:18.23 | zenzio | http://imgur.com/na2aoMt |
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| 13:45.43 | Fisker | I am a phone guy Lopeppeppy |
| 13:46.32 | Lopeppeppy | And how does that make you *feel*, Fisker? |
| 13:47.04 | Fisker | I am asking people to verify their details |
| 13:47.09 | Fisker | which makes me feel evil |
| 13:47.44 | zenzio | I've been getting scam mails from "Danske Bank"... sounds like your work Fisker |
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| 13:47.51 | Fisker | shh zenzio |
| 13:47.53 | Fisker | but no |
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| 13:50.58 | Fisker | but to be fair it was only for password resets Lopeppeppy |
| 13:51.03 | Fisker | so I wasn't a spammer |
| 13:52.08 | zenzio | after all these years... people STILL can't stop writing "Iphone" and "Ipad" |
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| 14:02.38 | zenzio | '[...] and see whether it worked or whether it failed with the error ERROR_ACCESS_DENIED (or, as it was called back in the MS-DOS days, "5")' |
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| 14:16.01 | nevcairiel | man AMDs codenames for their APUs get weirder every generation, now I don't even know how to pronounce them anymore |
| 14:17.13 | Fisker | I need sources |
| 14:17.15 | Fisker | for science |
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| 15:02.30 | stuf | zenzio: someone I knew used to write things like "I-pad" |
| 15:02.38 | stuf | god damnit that made me angry every time |
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| 15:09.07 | Kalroth | nevcairiel: but there's almost no buzzwords here: http://www.amd.com/en-us/press-releases/Pages/next-generation-mobile-2014apr29.aspx |
| 15:09.51 | Kalroth | "AMD Face Login uses facial recognition for logging into popular websites" |
| 15:10.01 | Kalroth | i can see this becoming popular quickly! |
| 15:10.19 | pompy | lols |
| 15:11.22 | Kalroth | "moooooom, amd is logging me on to your facebook, tell it to stop its not funny" |
| 15:11.46 | Kalroth | "maybe if you wore less makeup, Fisker!" |
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| 15:12.20 | Fisker | stop it Kalroth |
| 15:12.35 | Kalroth | sry |
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| 15:28.17 | jleclanche | dpaste.com is.. better |
| 15:28.20 | jleclanche | out of the blue. |
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| 15:52.30 | pompy | https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152356354216772&set=a.67899501771.69169.54971236771&type=1 let's go to Mars baby! lol |
| 15:58.23 | Unkle | pompy: Yes. But, I'd like to survive the trip, so we need to figure out the radiation exposure enroute issue. |
| 16:18.47 | pompy | indeed, which is what they willl prolly talk about!! |
| 16:18.50 | pompy | 15 minutes |
| 16:34.55 | Unkle | So, wildstar pre-ordered. |
| 16:41.17 | TC-Work | I'm borderline wildstar |
| 16:43.27 | zenzelezz | unrulystar? |
| 16:44.06 | TC-Work | discontentstar |
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| 16:55.23 | nevcairiel | wtf is wrong with the nasa stream, it seems to jump between 3 different streams o.o |
| 16:56.35 | nevcairiel | and they suck, the speaker has to say "next" all the time, give the man a clicker |
| 16:56.41 | Dagmar | It keeps viewers from getting bored |
| 16:58.00 | Dagmar | ...and if they wind up having to cut away in a hurry because of a boom mic in the shot, they've got quite a few seconds to deal with it before that part of the studio is live again. |
| 17:00.57 | nevcairiel | and now the image drifted and is split in the middle .. how does one screw that up so much |
| 17:03.24 | Amarande | nevcairiel: maybe they hired that one guy who's worked for google in the books department :P |
| 17:03.47 | Amarande | guh. this one book I got from Google Play, mind you I probably can't complain TOO much since it was a free one |
| 17:03.54 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (~A-KO@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 17:04.04 | Amarande | but ... there's gotta be at least ten pages in the book where part of the page is obscured by a very visible Google employee hand :P |
| 17:05.06 | VIad | is it typical to have a garbage with a shredder in the sink? :P |
| 17:05.22 | VIad | I just noticed some movies have those, just not sure if it's common now or some old fad |
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| 17:10.51 | Amarande | VIad: sink garbage disposal? it's a pretty popular add-on, though far from ubiquitous |
| 17:11.06 | Amarande | popular enough that it's typical to find cleaning aids for them in the grocery store, though |
| 17:11.35 | VIad | why does it shred the stuff you put in? and does it shred like bones if you put your hand in it - like the movies? :P |
| 17:13.16 | Amarande | the idea is that it shreds up the stuff so that it's basically liquefied and can go down the drain with the water |
| 17:13.52 | VIad | uh that wouldn't be appreciated by our guys in charge of the pipes and water cleaning :P |
| 17:14.29 | VIad | a lot of the sewer waste is recycled to become drinking water again |
| 17:14.34 | pompy | derp, "Database Error: Unable to connect to your database. Your database appears to be turned off or the database connection settings in your config file are not correct. Please contact your hosting provider if the problem persists." |
| 17:14.37 | pompy | my township website |
| 17:14.39 | Amarande | heh, I'm sure it's no worse than the stuff that goes to the sewers from the bathroom :P |
| 17:15.41 | Amarande | probably better, on balance ... which is more likely to cause a problem for recycling water, shredded KFC and asparagus or stuff that comes out of toilets when people are ill? |
| 17:18.06 | Amarande | heh pompy. I went to check the Intel download centre to do my usual every now and then check to see if there were any SSD firmware updates |
| 17:18.25 | Amarande | and got a message about how / could not be processed and there was a server error processing the error, or some such |
| 17:18.49 | Amarande | yeah, it's STILL busted |
| 17:18.51 | Amarande | Server Error in '/' Application. |
| 17:18.51 | Amarande | Runtime Error |
| 17:18.51 | Amarande | Description: An exception occurred while processing your request. Additionally, another exception occurred while executing the custom error page for the first exception. The request has been terminated. |
| 17:19.00 | Amarande | damn you Intel |
| 17:19.11 | VIad | I love vague errors ;) |
| 17:20.01 | Dagmar | Dude count yourself lucky |
| 17:20.17 | Dagmar | You should see the pagescroll that erupts when IBM's knowledgebase servers are stuffed up |
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| 17:37.55 | Gnarfoz | why am I watching a weird NASA stream that's randomly intercut with video of a rocket engine? |
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| 17:42.22 | zenzelezz | Firefox 29: Now with a new-ish UI. The main feature of which seems to be "our tabs now look like in Chrome and the titlebar always shows" |
| 17:47.48 | Amarande | zenzelezz, you're just using Firefox 29 now? |
| 17:47.52 | Amarande | I've been using 30 for a while LOL |
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| 17:48.15 | Amarande | aurora ftw |
| 17:48.34 | Amarande | though yeah, the chrome looking tabs are :( ... that's one thing I actually have LIKED about Firefox compared to Chrome is its screen setup |
| 17:48.54 | Amarande | zenzelezz, do you know a way to bring the dedicated url-mouseovery-bar thing back at the bottom of the window or is that gone for good? |
| 17:49.01 | Amarande | that was one of the big things that bugged me about Chrome |
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| 17:49.40 | Amarande | especially when you're talking to someone on facebook ... because the chat box is right at the bottom of the window, and every time your mouse is over a giant honking long URL (which is like ... every time your mouse is over about 95% of facebook) you can't see what you're typing because the url tooltip covers the entry box |
| 17:49.55 | zenzelezz | Amarande: I stopped going ahead of "current" some time ago. After the rolling-release thing it started losing its charm |
| 17:49.56 | Kodiack | Firefox still has quite a bit of room to slim its UI a bit. Not sure why there's that waste of five or so pixels between, say, the minimize/maximize/close buttons and the menu bar |
| 17:50.41 | zenzelezz | Amarande: as far as I know the statusbar has been gone for many versions now. You can get back an "addon bar", but the URLs won't show there |
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| 17:55.05 | Amarande | zenzelezz: checking with #firefox now ... seems they're about as uncertain |
| 17:55.26 | Amarande | my gut feeling is there might be an option somewhere in the endless obscure depths of about.config that might re-enable it, but I'm not sure where |
| 17:55.45 | Amarande | I'm guessing that Chrominess is just the future then and that there's NO way to have a statusbar anymore without accepting massive security losses? |
| 17:56.14 | Amarande | (and yet, the damn statusbar IS a security feature ... a lot of the time, it can alert you that you're about to click on a phishing link instead of a genuine one) |
| 17:57.23 | Amarande | hm, here's another little thing: "The padlock wasn't guaranteeing that you were connected to the right server." |
| 17:57.37 | Amarande | I guess I was right with my gripes over Dreamhost email back when I had them, the entire primary focus of SSL/TLS has changed, heh |
| 17:58.41 | Amarande | (the impression I have got is that it used to be that SSL was primarily about preventing people from sniffing passwords and financial details and such enroute by encrypting ... and that now the primary thing is the server identity verification and the encryption is just a secondary "nice to have" by comparison) |
| 17:58.52 | zenzelezz | well you do still get the "tooltip" in the bottom corner with the URL |
| 17:59.01 | Amarande | yeah, you do still get the URL at least |
| 17:59.21 | Amarande | but yeah, what was the purpose of ditching the status bar? |
| 17:59.32 | Amarande | or was Firefox really losing THAT much market share because it didn't look enough like chrome? :P |
| 18:00.14 | Amarande | or am I thinking snootily because I'm a desktop user with 1920x1200 and loads of space to spare, and the Web isn't about us snooty $1500 desktop people anymore, it's about people on $200 tablets and chromebooks LOL |
| 18:00.54 | zenzelezz | gah, I see what you mean now... even the fucking addon bar seems apparently gone, as far as default UI customization goes |
| 18:01.37 | zenzelezz | because who doesn't want to have 1000 buttons next to the URL bar to still have easy access to your addons |
| 18:02.54 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 18:02.57 | Amarande | yeah, what IS with Firefox's sudden obsession with looking like Chrome |
| 18:03.12 | Amarande | hell, the reason I went back to Firefox is because I DIDN'T LIKE how Chrome did things |
| 18:03.25 | Amarande | now it looks like we're stuck with Chrome's standard, either accept it or accept massive security holes from running an obsolete browser :| |
| 18:03.44 | Amarande | (or from running IE I suppose, which even the US gov has warned us we shouldn't use atm due to security problems :S) |
| 18:04.24 | Amarande | and really, what do they save from eliminating that bar ... 30ish pixels or so vertically? how important are 30 vertical pixels! :P |
| 18:04.39 | Amarande | it's not like it's the olden days when the standard was to expect people were on an ancient CRT that could only handle 800x600 resolution LOL |
| 18:06.18 | zenzelezz | apparently the built-in developer tools were too dark; now they look like... well, take a guess |
| 18:08.06 | Kalroth | http://i.imgur.com/RT00R5y.jpg :D |
| 18:09.36 | Amarande | hm, there are a couple of addons that supposedly fix this, but I'm not sure how well they're going to work. *sigh* |
| 18:09.46 | Amarande | and gah, do I really want to go back to IE |
| 18:09.55 | Amarande | "NEVER GOING BACK TO BLUE NONAGON!" -- Gree droid, SW:TOR |
| 18:10.20 | Amarande | actually IE does things the same way :P |
| 18:12.33 | Amarande | yay, classic theme restorer does everything EXCEPT the one thing to be griped about |
| 18:19.14 | kd3 | holy crap. those of you who play minecraft, this is coming in 1.8: http://gfycat.com/ImperturbableMeanCuckoo |
| 18:19.57 | Kodiack | um |
| 18:19.58 | bluipodcow | What is that kd3? |
| 18:20.41 | kd3 | pistons can normally only push a 1x1x12 column of blocks. with the new 'slime blocks' that act like sticky blocks, you can still push up to 12 blocks, just not in a line |
| 18:21.37 | bluipodcow | Wow |
| 18:22.00 | bluipodcow | So less silly piston workarounds for stuff ? |
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| 18:30.43 | Lopeppeppy | Oh god I signed up for such a boring class. |
| 18:30.53 | kd3 | are you still in drop/add? |
| 18:31.31 | Lopeppeppy | This is just a webinar, thank god, it will be over soon and I can check it off as "attended a training course" |
| 18:31.56 | Lopeppeppy | I'd be in finals week if it were a real course. |
| 18:32.35 | Fisker | Can I entertain you Lopeppeppy? |
| 18:32.52 | Lopeppeppy | Please, before I go spare. |
| 18:33.02 | Lopeppeppy | Lunch also sucks so I'm cranky at that too. |
| 18:33.21 | Fisker | knock knock |
| 18:33.37 | Lopeppeppy | Who's there? |
| 18:33.43 | Fisker | slaps Lopeppeppy around a bit with a large trout |
| 18:33.53 | Fisker | me apparently |
| 18:33.56 | Fisker | with a trout |
| 18:34.22 | Lopeppeppy | How very nice of you to visit. |
| 18:35.00 | TC-Work | Get a better lunch? |
| 18:35.27 | Lopeppeppy | I have a salad as consolation, TC. |
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| 18:44.14 | Amarande | heh, you know what this whole firefox thing makes me think ultimately ... that I'm glad I haven't bought into the 4k thing because it's going to fall flat on its face :) |
| 18:44.33 | Amarande | I might go 1440p when this monitor goes, whenever that is, and I need a new one, but I doubt I'll ever go 4k now |
| 18:45.23 | Amarande | I mean ... monitors are getting higher and higher resolution, but what's it really GOOD for? Video at 4k is going to be a problem (the Internet is proving to have bandwidth troubles with 1080p being popular as it is, let alone 4k ...) |
| 18:45.40 | Amarande | Gaming well at 4k is going to take supercharged video cards that will be super expensive for years to come |
| 18:46.22 | Amarande | And desktoppy stuff? As we're seeing with the firefox statusbar thing, there's an ever whip-driving trend to save every possible pixel lately in UI design, so having more screen real estate is starting to feel less and less useful already :| |
| 18:47.32 | Dagmar | Yeah it'll just be a shame if the MPAA gets involved and decides they need extra money because video caching nodes "make a copy" of videos |
| 18:49.24 | Amarande | apparently facebook has practically now become something you do on your mobile device, not your computer :S |
| 18:49.40 | Amarande | because there's no really facebook-friendly browser left anymore with the FF29/30 "chrominess" changes |
| 18:50.02 | Amarande | now all three major browsers all share the same ludicrous fault on that front heh |
| 18:50.24 | nevcairiel | what does the style of the tabs have to do with you using facebook |
| 18:50.40 | Amarande | nevcairiel: it's the complete loss of the status bar that's the issue, actually |
| 18:50.55 | nevcairiel | what does the statusbar have to do with you using facebook |
| 18:51.05 | Amarande | the problem is 1) that half of facebook is links, so a ridiculous amount of the time your mouse is over a link |
| 18:51.22 | Amarande | 2) that any offsite link on facebook is a ridiculously huge long thing that even at 1920x stretches across the whole screen and then some |
| 18:51.46 | nevcairiel | you dont need a persistent statusbar, in chrome it just shows up when you hover a link |
| 18:51.55 | Amarande | 3) that when you're PMing someone on facebook, the chatbox is put at the very bottom of the window with the editbox at the bottom of the chatbox as you'd expect it to be |
| 18:52.14 | Amarande | upshot: PMing becomes a pain in the ass because half the time that "hover link" covers up the editbox and you can't see what the hell you are typing |
| 18:52.18 | Amarande | and now all three major browsers do this :| |
| 18:52.31 | nevcairiel | sounds like facebooks website is just crap |
| 18:52.38 | kd3 | ^ |
| 18:52.41 | Unkle | It's facebook |
| 18:52.46 | Unkle | Of course it's crap. |
| 18:52.48 | Amarande | and this is done to do what, save like thirty friggin vertical pixels? |
| 18:52.56 | Amarande | how important can it be to save thirty friggin vertical pixels |
| 18:53.03 | kd3 | the ideal amount of UI chrome is 0 |
| 18:53.15 | nevcairiel | also, why would the link hover show up while you're writing into an editbox, you're not supposed to hover around the website, you're supposed to write text |
| 18:53.32 | Amarande | this is not the olden days when you had to be super sparing about UI chrome because such a large userbase had old CRTs that were uncomfortable above 800x600 :S |
| 18:54.09 | Amarande | nevcairiel: your mouse pointer is elsewhere, and if it's over a link (which it seems to be most of the time on facebook) you get a hover link |
| 18:54.31 | nevcairiel | then dont put it elsewhere, click into the editbox and leave it there :P |
| 18:54.33 | kd3 | so twitch the cursor a few pixels? |
| 18:54.42 | nevcairiel | or complain to facebook for having a stupid website |
| 18:54.48 | Amarande | consider that if you alt-tab away and back, your text cursor is still active in the chatbox, wherever the mouse happens to be from what you were doing alt-tabbed :) |
| 18:55.15 | nevcairiel | aligning an input widget to the very bottom of the screen is bad website design as it is |
| 18:55.20 | Amarande | but yeah, I've pretty much grown up used to UI chrome as a normal part of things, I'm not sure where this "zero-chrome" impetus comes from so strongly |
| 18:55.30 | Amarande | we have 1920x1080, 1920x1200 screens as practically a standard on computers these days |
| 18:55.36 | Amarande | it's not like pixels are that precious anymore :) |
| 18:55.41 | nevcairiel | thats tiny resolutions |
| 18:55.46 | nevcairiel | many phones have more these days |
| 18:55.58 | Amarande | what's the point of even having that much resolution anymore if programs are actively designed to avoid needing to use it, heh |
| 18:56.10 | Amarande | it basically makes gaming and video the only reason to even *have* it, at least on a desktop with large screen |
| 18:56.15 | kd3 | they're using it for content, not for chrome |
| 18:56.19 | nevcairiel | just because you have more space doesnt mean you need to waste it with useless blank space |
| 18:57.03 | nevcairiel | even more so on bigger screens. if your screen gets wider, even more space in a permanent statusbar is all empty and never used |
| 18:57.04 | Amarande | you've probably seen my usual WoW UI's too, they're chromed up the wazoo, usually double bazooka bars and 14 billion at-a-glance info addons on hand :) |
| 18:57.16 | Amarande | and tbh, I find that to be better than more spartan setups most of the time heh |
| 18:57.34 | nevcairiel | and saner people actually prefer seeing the game they are playing |
| 18:57.42 | nevcairiel | or the website they are browsing |
| 18:58.20 | Amarande | nevcairiel: I find myself thinking, perfectly rationally, that I've got 1920x1200 pixels, I can spare a little space for a consistent rather than pop-in-and-out design UX |
| 18:58.52 | nevcairiel | its pretty consistent, it always shows in the same area, but only if there is something to show, otherwise its just wasted space |
| 18:59.09 | Amarande | basically, that's why I got irritated with the change to a hover bar |
| 18:59.27 | Amarande | it's because with the old status bar design, there was space reserved for the hover info, that wasn't used for content, so the hover info never coincided on top of content |
| 18:59.28 | nevcairiel | you're free to stick to older versions |
| 18:59.37 | Amarande | nevcairiel: if you want to become less and less secure |
| 18:59.45 | nevcairiel | of course it was on top of content |
| 18:59.49 | nevcairiel | it always was on top of content |
| 18:59.53 | nevcairiel | you never saw the content below |
| 19:00.06 | Amarande | if one could use older versions in today's computer world without incurring a greater and greater risk of significant financial loss, people probably would |
| 19:00.16 | Amarande | (especially given how many people do even WITH the risk :p) |
| 19:00.43 | nevcairiel | those many people are just lazy or too stupid to know better, generally |
| 19:00.45 | Amarande | but with crackers as relentless as they are today in pursuit of cash, you basically have to use the latest of everything :| |
| 19:01.09 | Amarande | which basically means devs get to rip out beloved features with impunity because they know you gotta update to protect yourself online :S |
| 19:01.33 | Amarande | heavy addon users are even more pissed off now apparently, because that bar was where addon related stuff went too, and now it's gone altogether |
| 19:02.52 | Amarande | look at how Microsoft drags us around with Windows ... lots of people don't like Metro? well they're going to be stuck with it anyway because sooner or later the support hammer will fall on Vista and 7 like it did on XP |
| 19:03.02 | Amarande | I don't mind Metro, but I know a lot of people hate its guts |
| 19:03.28 | nevcairiel | you do realize you can use Windows 8 perfectly fine without ever seeing a single metro application running |
| 19:03.39 | Amarande | yup, that's pretty much how I use it :) |
| 19:03.51 | nevcairiel | so what the fuck is your point |
| 19:03.59 | Amarande | unless I need to check the weather, or go to the start screen since I tend to use it as a sort of pegboard, like an extended version of taskbar pinning |
| 19:04.25 | Torhal | nevcairiel: Stream-of-conciousness speaking requires no point. |
| 19:04.35 | Amarande | nevcairiel: the point I'm making is that it seems like devs basically feel free to whim around with features, and because of today's Internet connected world, people don't get a choice anymore because "use an old version" carries an increasingly high security price |
| 19:06.01 | Unkle | ~torhal++ |
| 19:06.32 | Amarande | and that the present direction of UI design seems to be rather ... well ... not very good |
| 19:07.00 | Amarande | "hide everything. never have anything constantly on hand, that's inelegant." |
| 19:07.48 | Amarande | I see people do it with WoW too, it makes me shake my head |
| 19:07.56 | Amarande | these raider UIs where there's like, no action buttons on screen |
| 19:08.11 | Torhal | If they know what buttons to press... |
| 19:08.15 | Amarande | people really remember the forty billion key combinations for each class by rote? :S |
| 19:08.20 | kd3 | you don't need to see your buttons if they're all keybound and you have a cooldown display |
| 19:08.38 | Amarande | I mean, I do memorise things like basic rotation, but how many other things do we usually put on our hotbars :) |
| 19:08.43 | Torhal | Anywho, I thought you'd decided to monologue over in #wowhead where nobody pays attention anyway. |
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| 19:08.56 | Amarande | I know I tend to put everything from my hearthstone to my most frequently used mount to quick access to trade skills etc. on my action bars |
| 19:09.28 | kd3 | ./cast alchemy |
| 19:09.50 | kd3 | or use the opie keybind |
| 19:09.53 | Amarande | unless you go to the trouble to reveal your hotbars only when you're not raiding, or something like that |
| 19:10.07 | airtonix | when i was raiding, the only buttons i needed on screen where the ones that showed me if they were on cool down or not |
| 19:10.13 | Amarande | but yeah, that's what makes me shake my head about zero-chrome ... instead of having things around all the time easily, you hide them and then have to go to extra trouble to bring them up when you require them |
| 19:10.46 | Amarande | it's kind of like taking the basic downside of GUIs and increasing it, really :) |
| 19:11.06 | airtonix | there is a project for WoW that is like Gnome Shells overlay mode, and you can put what ever frames you want in there. |
| 19:11.21 | Amarande | (in a CLI, you just have to know the options, and you type in the command directly ... in a GUI, you're often forced to navigate through the menu and dialog system to do something that would be a one liner in a CLI ... in a zero chrome GUI, you add another step to that!) |
| 19:11.49 | kd3 | or you just hit the keybind that you've learned over a near-decade of raiding |
| 19:12.09 | airtonix | i can't remember what it was called |
| 19:12.09 | airtonix | pretty simple in implementation |
| 19:12.46 | Amarande | (probably the most egregious case in CLI vs GUI at least is accessing a file: in a CLI, you just type in the file path and name, while in a GUI, you generally MUST navigate to it via the pop-up browser dialog) |
| 19:13.27 | kd3 | or in a modern desktop, files you've recently used are listed and that's what the file prompt shows first |
| 19:13.59 | Amarande | although that's probably regarded as a good evolution too in general :S |
| 19:14.30 | Amarande | (contra argument: in a CLI, it's much harder to set up locked-down least-access security, in a GUI, you can easily limit action by limiting what people can reach via the menus) |
| 19:15.09 | Dagmar | ..at least until you're dealing with someone who knows how to add a cmd.exe plugin to Mozilla |
| 19:16.47 | Amarande | heh, true |
| 19:17.11 | Amarande | but you probably locked down the installation of plugins if that really matters :) |
| 19:17.18 | Amarande | (or of software altogether) |
| 19:19.05 | Amarande | kd3: heh, I probably should stop organising skills so fastidiously on the action bars :) |
| 19:19.24 | Amarande | that could actually be something holding me back on raiding performance, seeing that I have my action bars visible and tend to try to keep them tidy |
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| 19:19.41 | Amarande | which often means after a patch changes skills, time to move stuff around for elegance ... oh goodbye muscle memory again :( |
| 19:20.47 | Amarande | or more notably when leveling up a new class ... it's not always the easiest thing to do to know offhand where every new skill you learn should go on the action bar so it will be in its perfect place when you hit 90 and it's part of your rotation |
| 19:21.03 | Amarande | but move it? oh, goodbye muscle memory :( |
| 19:22.58 | Neffi | wowhead.com -> look up skills, plan talents -> plan out keybind layout in text editor -> import into Bindpad |
| 19:23.42 | Neffi | It only takes a couple minutes. If you categorize your skills well, you never need to redo your keybind layout. And you build muscle memory while leveling |
| 19:23.53 | bluipodcow | then profit ! |
| 19:23.56 | Amarande | and for new xpacks, always find a new keybind, I suppose, NEVER move stuff |
| 19:23.56 | Neffi | aye |
| 19:24.10 | bluipodcow | And fondle a fisker for luck ! |
| 19:24.28 | Neffi | No, I may move for new xpacs. Depends on how it's messed up categorization. Did I get a new control-type ability and my control-type keys are filled? I may need to re-arrange. |
| 19:24.30 | Fisker | hey bluipodcow |
| 19:24.34 | Amarande | and I probably should learn to use more than just the number keys as skills, but I'm never 100% sure what exactly is safe otherwise to use and what's used for other core UI |
| 19:24.41 | bluipodcow | Oh hai |
| 19:24.48 | nevcairiel | unless you do a hell of a lot of research, i've found that during leveling its not always apparent which spells are really going to end up in which preferred position at max levle |
| 19:25.12 | Neffi | That's why you shouldn't try to cram in abilities. F and G are control for me. If a class only had 3-4 control abilities, I don't bother cramming in non-control to eg Alt-F just because it's empty. They may gain a new ability next xpac |
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| 19:25.45 | Amarande | the biggest problem is that for most of us, only about half the keyboard is practical for keybinds, especially when you start needing to use Ctrl/Alt/Shift with them |
| 19:26.07 | Amarande | unless you've got really gigantic hands :) |
| 19:26.14 | Neffi | Depends on how similar the new class you play is, to what you're familiar. I found a perfect feral keybind set the first time I played, after playing a rogue for a while. It only took a few minutes of planning to get a perfect mage layout. I also look up common macros to get an idea of what I might need, but havent thought of |
| 19:26.20 | Amarande | and mine are pretty big I think, but not THAT gigantic |
| 19:26.33 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (~A-KO@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 19:26.57 | Amarande | (problem: you need one hand on the mouse almost constantly for movement, so you basically need all your keybinds on one side of the keyboard to comfortably reach them quickly during battle) |
| 19:27.15 | Neffi | That's why a mouse with a bunch of buttons is invaluable. I dont need to use the number keys. Letter keys alone left of y/h/n + mouse buttons, with alt/ctrl/shift is enough for any class |
| 19:27.38 | Neffi | but I have big hands <_< |
| 19:27.59 | Amarande | I've actually sometimes pondered those 122-key POS-market targeted keyboards as perhaps a good option for MMOs |
| 19:28.20 | Amarande | You can map that extra set of function keys to equivalent to key combinations that you'd otherwise need to be an octopus to hit normally |
| 19:28.47 | Amarande | F13 = Alt-Shift-J? Sure! |
| 19:28.55 | Neffi | With the extra side buttons? I dont like. If I need to move my hand that far left, I've set my binds up incorrectly. I should always be able to hold a movement key or two, always be able to hit the modifiers and jump, no matter what I'm pressing |
| 19:33.12 | Amarande | btw, regarding zero-chrome, there's also a fine little piece of hypocrisy: it's a horrible sin to have something actually *useful* on the screen constantly, that would be unnecessary chrome |
| 19:33.34 | Amarande | but (particularly on mobile devices, where screen real estate really IS precious enough that you need as little chrome as possible) it's perfectly fine to take up a huge chunk of the screen with a giant honking pushed AD |
| 19:33.40 | Amarande | *facepalm* |
| 19:34.10 | Neffi | Bills don't pay themselves. Buy the pro version |
| 19:34.34 | Amarande | "can we have (widget)?" "no, there's no screen space for that" "but you're taking up a quarter of the screen with ads, there's space for that?" "yes, yes my friend there is" |
| 19:35.23 | Amarande | Neffi: fine and dandy if every such app actually offered one :) |
| 19:35.41 | Amarande | I'm sure a lot of us actually *would* buy the pro of everything if it meant we could get down to absolutely zero apps that have ads |
| 19:35.47 | Dagmar | Amarande: Logitech makes the G510 for that, but they all have chording problems |
| 19:36.01 | Amarande | just like on our computers we tend to carefully curate to have a minimum possible amount of ad-supported software :) |
| 19:36.25 | Dagmar | If you bind say, G13 to CTL-ALT-F1, and press it while you're running around, there's a pretty good chance you'll be toggling the sound on and off |
| 19:36.57 | Amarande | heh, what does it think you're pressing? |
| 19:37.17 | Neffi | silly controller |
| 19:40.48 | airtonix | silly Neffi |
| 19:40.52 | Dagmar | It thinks you're hitting CTRL and S at the same time |
| 19:41.10 | Dagmar | ...because if you hit both G13 and S at the same time, you basically did just that |
| 19:45.30 | Amarande | But isn't "toggle sound" JUST ctrl+S? |
| 19:45.40 | Amarande | after all, if you have something bound to 0, alt-0, and ctrl-alt-0 |
| 19:45.44 | kd3 | it'll still trigger if you hit ctrl+alt+s |
| 19:45.53 | Amarande | and you hit ctrl-alt-0, you don't also trigger the alt-0 and 0 abilities too :) |
| 19:45.57 | kd3 | unless you have something specifically bound to that |
| 19:46.24 | Amarande | though it sounds like where you get glitched is because you have multiple non-meta things and then everything goes all blue nonagon |
| 19:48.30 | pompy | "With today's update 4.1, Unreal Engine 4 is available to developers at no additional charge on PS4 and Xbox One. Epic is running Unreal Engine 4 as a subscription-based service, for $19 a month and 5 percent of gross revenue from any commercial product made with the engine." |
| 19:48.34 | pompy | interesting or weird? |
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| 19:54.12 | Neffi | 5 per cent doesnt seem so bad. It's much better than the ridiculous 25%+ I've seen engines ask for |
| 19:55.51 | airtonix | someones trying to flood usenet with fakes |
| 19:56.00 | airtonix | not a new enterprise mind you |
| 19:56.48 | Amarande | $19 a month ... interesting |
| 19:56.55 | Amarande | so say you use that for your game and you get steam greenlit |
| 19:57.01 | airtonix | it's almost like someones trying to create a demand for a curated internet |
| 19:57.10 | Amarande | do you have to eternally cough up $19 a month unless you can get steam to revoke the game, should you decide not to continue to pay the fee? |
| 19:57.25 | Amarande | or do you only pay that for access while actually devving and bringing it to market? |
| 19:57.27 | airtonix | yes |
| 19:57.33 | airtonix | always 19 a month |
| 19:57.36 | airtonix | never stops |
| 19:57.48 | airtonix | but that's cheaper than other options |
| 19:57.52 | Amarande | heh, and I guess if you go under and Steam doesn't notice quickly enough, they're pirates :) |
| 19:57.58 | Torhal | stops airtonix. |
| 19:58.00 | Amarande | because suddenly an unlicenced game is for sale :) |
| 19:58.14 | airtonix | well how do you get access to the engine without paying? |
| 19:58.29 | airtonix | i assume there is some compile checks for active license? |
| 19:58.47 | Esamynn|work | eewww |
| 19:58.54 | Amarande | airtonix: I'm talking post-production, once the game's gone gold and is up on steam or whatnot for sale and you're no longer actually developing with the engine |
| 19:59.18 | airtonix | well: lawyers |
| 19:59.18 | Amarande | whether you continue to pay the monthly fee then, or if then it goes to the gross revenue cut only |
| 19:59.36 | Amarande | I've seen various interpretations about how licencing works with that kind of thing |
| 19:59.58 | Amarande | like, on the one hand, nobody goes around Best Buys issuing recalls of physically published games if the developer no longer retains their licence to whatever :) |
| 20:00.03 | TC-Work | http://stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks |
| 20:00.07 | znf | wait, I don't get the $19 |
| 20:00.10 | znf | I mean, 5%, I get |
| 20:00.11 | znf | but $19? |
| 20:00.16 | znf | that's like pocket change? |
| 20:00.19 | airtonix | what i want to know is that any work done in the GUI editor... is it just a frontend for manipulating something like a JSON,YAML file ? |
| 20:00.38 | znf | it's $19 regardless if you have 1 customer for your game or 10.000? |
| 20:00.41 | Maldivia | znf: just so every Joe doens't download it, I assume |
| 20:00.44 | Stanzilla | pompy: all the current engines have that now |
| 20:00.46 | Amarande | on the other hand, when things are sold through download services, there seem to be a tendency for things to have to be removed from *stores* the moment the *publisher's* licence to the third party ceases |
| 20:00.49 | Stanzilla | so just normal |
| 20:01.10 | Stanzilla | also: old |
| 20:01.13 | *** join/#wowuidev chrippa (~chrippa@c-7f0770d5.31-2-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 20:01.14 | Stanzilla | that was released last week! |
| 20:01.31 | Amarande | on the OTHER hand, you see things like GoG still selling old AD&D games, even though those were made by Black Isle/Bioware and the licence for AD&D has since passed to Atari ... |
| 20:02.07 | Amarande | on the OTHER hand, it's like "no we can't yet sell the old Gold Box games through GoG or such because SSI's successor companies don't have a licence to sell AD&D games" or some such |
| 20:02.09 | Amarande | guh. |
| 20:02.42 | Amarande | or how when Mongoose's licence ended for Babylon 5, the B5 RPG had to be pulled off of DriveThru |
| 20:03.00 | Amarande | it seems to be very nebulous about what's considered "continuing to publish" in terms of licencing requirements :S |
| 20:03.08 | Maldivia | guess that depends on how the license agreement was written |
| 20:03.19 | TC-Work | 2 days Stanzilla, 2 days |
| 20:03.22 | Amarande | as opposed to continuing to sell what's *been* published, as with the case of the physical game on the Best Buy shelf |
| 20:03.27 | TC-Work | ~3 |
| 20:03.27 | purl | 3 is a number, silly |
| 20:03.41 | Maldivia | ~42 |
| 20:03.42 | purl | somebody said 42 was the answer to life the universe and everything, see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/the_answer_to_life,_the_universe,_and_everything |
| 20:06.01 | Stanzilla | TC-Work: https://www.unrealengine.com/blog/41-release-notes |
| 20:06.03 | Stanzilla | 5 days |
| 20:06.24 | Stanzilla | not that it matters though |
| 20:06.32 | Stanzilla | the per month payment was since 4.0 anyway |
| 20:12.24 | Amarande | and that's one of the reasons why the present intellectual property regime sucks |
| 20:12.42 | Amarande | anything where you need to hire a lawyer just to be able to even figure out the basic framework of things is *too* complicated to run a society on |
| 20:13.27 | Amarande | (tax law can go in the same list of accursedness ... seriously, the US Title that contains the tax code is apparently longer than the Wheel of Time series IN ITS ENTIRETY, and that's no mean feat for a book.) |
| 20:17.25 | Stanzilla | ok |
| 20:20.21 | airtonix | i concur |
| 20:20.36 | *** join/#wowuidev bjelleklang (~chris@wikipedia/Bjelleklang) |
| 20:21.02 | pompy | http://www.ajc.com/news/news/cobb-police-investigating-shooting-at-fedex-facili/nfkNR/ what the hell! |
| 20:21.27 | kd3 | yah, heard that this morning |
| 20:21.54 | kd3 | drove past there every day for a few years |
| 20:22.02 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy_ (~stolenleg@unaffiliated/stolenlegacy) |
| 20:22.07 | kd3 | crazy seeing local stuff on national news |
| 20:22.33 | Amarande | and that's a main hub |
| 20:22.36 | *** join/#wowuidev MysticalOS (~Myst@h18.36.28.71.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) |
| 20:22.43 | Amarande | oy, fedex is getting hammered this year business-wise, it would seem |
| 20:23.03 | Amarande | first they probably lost a lot of customer goodwill from probably having packages stranded for days in Atlanta when there were all those snow storms |
| 20:23.15 | Amarande | now packages are probably going to get stranded again due to shooting investigations getting in the way |
| 20:23.58 | Amarande | they let them move vehicles, but I would suppose they didn't let them take any more packages out of the warehouse, lest that change the crime scene, no? :| |
| 20:26.59 | Amarande | and what is *with* there being so many shootings in the news lately |
| 20:27.11 | kd3 | because it drives views/clicks |
| 20:28.08 | Amarande | yeah, that's true, good news doesn't really drive the same kind of clickership |
| 20:28.20 | Amarande | unless it's something like "SOPA got defeated" or the like, anyways |
| 20:28.59 | Amarande | (even then, arguably that only drives views because of the "ding dong the witch is dead" feeling I suppose :S) |
| 20:30.04 | Amarande | hrm ... http://picpaste.com/temp-aud3gY0D.png I guess it's time to turn off the Asus "always turbo" feature, especially before summer when ambient rises another 10 degrees C a lot of the time. :| |
| 20:38.02 | Maldivia | why must the English language defy all reason with regards to pronounciations at times? ... yes, I'm looking at you "antithesis" |
| 20:38.40 | nevcairiel | i assume its not the obvious anti+thesis? |
| 20:38.41 | Neffi | because it's just so much fun |
| 20:39.02 | Gethe | anything with -ough |
| 20:39.10 | Neffi | nevcairiel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aUlYoCQumM |
| 20:39.37 | nevcairiel | so its pulled together, eh |
| 20:40.00 | Neffi | sort of. thesis has a stress on the (long) E |
| 20:40.39 | jleclanche | is it possible to do a pull request on github without forking a repo? |
| 20:40.44 | Maldivia | nevcairiel: an-tithe-sis |
| 20:40.53 | alestane | The tough coughs as he ploughs the dough. |
| 20:41.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (Amarande@24-151-100-63.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 20:41.13 | Gethe | ^ |
| 20:41.38 | Maldivia | alestane: all of those make sense, sort of :) |
| 20:41.39 | Neffi | sometimes I read read as read when it's supposed to be read. reminds me of lead |
| 20:41.39 | kd3 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/-ough |
| 20:41.42 | alestane | An TI thih sihs. |
| 20:42.16 | Maldivia | just as there is nothing hyper about hyperbole |
| 20:42.34 | alestane | Maldivia, a lot of cases like that come from situations where the words actually were pronounced the same in the language's history, but the pronunciations have drifted apart. |
| 20:44.16 | Neffi | English is fun though. The following has a different meaning depends on which word is stressed: I didn't say she stole my money |
| 20:44.22 | Maldivia | alestane: have you read the Chaos poem ? http://www.i18nguy.com/chaos.html |
| 20:50.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Sajaki (~Sajaki@91.179.248.190) |
| 20:52.28 | Maldivia | Neffi: that applies to a lot of languages though |
| 20:53.31 | Neffi | I guess that's not surprising, since most derive their semantics from similar sources. I only speak English fluently. :| |
| 20:53.52 | Maldivia | I can tell you that for the above sentence, the same applies if translated to Danish |
| 20:54.44 | Maldivia | but again, they are but Germanic languages, so |
| 20:54.50 | Maldivia | both* |
| 21:00.01 | alestane | I've seen a similar one, yes. |
| 21:04.29 | Amarande | wow, that asus feature I just disabled in the bios is lousy |
| 21:05.36 | zenzelezz | which one? |
| 21:08.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~RyanNL@adsl-74-242-165-58.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 21:08.50 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 21:09.16 | zenzelezz | a wild Seerah appears |
| 21:09.25 | Seerah | hihi :) |
| 21:09.44 | zenzelezz | :) |
| 21:09.55 | Amarande | zenzelezz: "always run all cores at full turbo" |
| 21:10.10 | Amarande | it's ... maybe good in the wintertime, if you want a very loud computer |
| 21:10.11 | Amarande | heh |
| 21:10.27 | Amarande | it's a good thing I looked more closely at it, I suspect I would have been thermal throttling once summer comes |
| 21:10.30 | airtonix | i keep my machines in another house |
| 21:11.10 | airtonix | well we call it a house, its more like an arcology |
| 21:11.11 | Amarande | full-tilt, it caused things to run in the low-mid 80s even in winter, and a look at core temp at full tilt now that spring is in full swing was showing it hitting the low 90s |
| 21:11.28 | Amarande | I'm sure ambient will rise another 10 C or so by the time the dog days of summer are on us :S |
| 21:12.15 | Esamynn|work | Neffi: English... or American? :P |
| 21:12.20 | Amarande | turn off the feature? I'm still getting at least 3.6 GHz pretty much always (I think that's max stock turbo for this processor when all four cores are active) and have seen power usage drop by about 12W and temperatures drop at least 10-15C |
| 21:12.33 | Amarande | plus now the system fans have gone pleasantly silent |
| 21:12.41 | Amarande | the fans were all going like mad with that stupid feature on :) |
| 21:16.17 | airtonix | whelp, the 100 has turned into a shitty show |
| 21:16.33 | airtonix | preceded in shittiness by under the dome |
| 21:16.42 | airtonix | and eastenders |
| 21:28.17 | Amarande | airtonix: heh, Pink Floyd and Springsteen are still right after all these years, except for the numbers |
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| 21:43.54 | Mr_Rabies | kd3: speaking of local/personal news being a big deal, you know that photographer that's been in the news recently? |
| 21:48.37 | airtonix | no |
| 21:50.25 | Mr_Rabies | well tldr: guy i've known since 4th grade is now in federal custody for allegedly producing and trading cp |
| 21:50.43 | airtonix | you obviously didn't know him then |
| 21:50.48 | Mr_Rabies | and he admits to such |
| 21:51.04 | airtonix | because the alternative is more dangerous |
| 21:51.08 | Mr_Rabies | so my brain is like, destroyed |
| 21:51.22 | airtonix | releasing corporate secrets or get branded a pedo |
| 21:51.26 | airtonix | hard choice |
| 21:51.48 | Mr_Rabies | i don't even know how to deal with this |
| 21:51.58 | airtonix | but hey! stigma is a dirt unwashable! |
| 21:52.11 | Mr_Rabies | i was arranging to hang out with him and watch the final episode of gundam unicorn in a few weeks here, and maybe go to momocon |
| 21:52.31 | airtonix | just make sure you don't have any secrets |
| 21:52.48 | Mr_Rabies | but now i'm torn |
| 21:52.48 | airtonix | that powerful people don't want you to have |
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| 21:53.14 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 21:53.27 | airtonix | you should make a thread on reddit about this. |
| 21:53.33 | airtonix | you'll get quality advice |
| 21:54.23 | Mr_Rabies | he got into drugs after high school and went down a downward spiral, but picked up the pieces after serving some jail time and was as far as i could tell, clean, and having a mildly successful career as a photographer |
| 21:54.47 | Mr_Rabies | so i looked up at him as someone who could turn things around and lead them in a positive direction, then bam, this |
| 21:54.59 | Mr_Rabies | i think i went through every stage of grief yesterday |
| 22:04.08 | Kodiack | i think i went through every stage of grief in the last two minutes |
| 22:13.37 | Torhal | Don't you do that every time a new video card is released, Kodiack? |
| 22:13.53 | jleclanche | Mr_Rabies: Ive been dealing with four different kinds of vastly different communities the past year, at very deep levels |
| 22:14.27 | jleclanche | Mr_Rabies: one thing i learned on that occasion was *just how many people* do fucked up things; behave disgustingly especially against other people |
| 22:14.42 | jleclanche | subsets of that behaviour just happens to be illegal |
| 22:14.52 | jleclanche | subset of those dealing in such subsets just happen to get caught |
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| 22:15.47 | jleclanche | after a while you tune it out. |
| 22:17.55 | Kodiack | Not just video cards, but also video card drivers, Torhal :) |
| 22:22.12 | Primer | Mr_Rabies: I'm having the same dilemma with a friend who I just found out is a holy roller. I'm a devout atheist and he started preaching to me on FB |
| 22:22.42 | Primer | He's a friend from high school that I was hoping to hang out with IRL more...but...I can't see it happening now |
| 22:23.13 | Primer | because we played in a band together in high school...I was hoping to revive an interest in playing music |
| 22:23.38 | Mr_Rabies | what is a holy roller |
| 22:23.54 | Primer | Not USA, Mr_Rabies? |
| 22:24.03 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, i've just never heard that term |
| 22:24.07 | Primer | REALLY!?! |
| 22:24.29 | Primer | He says "blessed" a lot |
| 22:24.41 | Primer | "I'm really blessed to have had a chicken sandwich for lunch" |
| 22:25.04 | Mr_Rabies | i've got a cousin that's like that |
| 22:25.07 | Amarande | Torhal: speaking of giving Kodiack grief, I've been wondering when the GeForce 800 series is supposed to be out :) |
| 22:25.12 | Mr_Rabies | a real sidehug christian type |
| 22:26.15 | Primer | Mr_Rabies: using words like "providence" and "trinity" in sentences...expecting that I should know what that means |
| 22:26.27 | Mr_Rabies | my cousin's got a real positive outlook on life so whatever, it's his life |
| 22:26.36 | Mr_Rabies | but this may go deeper than that it sounds like |
| 22:26.49 | Primer | Mr_Rabies: ignorance is bliss |
| 22:27.05 | Mr_Rabies | my cousin's just crazy about jesus, and i'm okay with that |
| 22:27.45 | Primer | I'm of the opinion that religion (i.e. self-delusion) is incredibly harmful to one's psyche |
| 22:27.48 | Mr_Rabies | it would make talking about music difficult or impossible though |
| 22:28.23 | Kodiack | It'll be a while before we see 20 nm GPUs >_> |
| 22:28.31 | Primer | it's what ultimately cause suicide bombers and the likes |
| 22:29.00 | Mr_Rabies | ultimately that stuff is about control of power and ideas, not inherently an issue with religion |
| 22:30.07 | Amarande | yeah, you can take even the sanest of precepts and the moment they get processed en masse through human failings they get screwed up |
| 22:30.17 | Mr_Rabies | i don't really like preachy people on either side of the issue, personally |
| 22:30.25 | Amarande | hell, look at communism. it's practically the sanest, most ideal thing in the world, at its core |
| 22:30.35 | Amarande | "hey, if we all give our extras to people who need them, we'll all live better!" |
| 22:30.49 | Mr_Rabies | on the internet at least, i've run into way more preachy internet atheists than preachy christians, but then again i got to reddit too often |
| 22:30.55 | Primer | Amarande: human nature makes that impossible |
| 22:30.57 | Amarande | ... instead, you try to apply it to societies of actual humans and you get totalitarian dictatorships :S |
| 22:31.51 | Amarande | Primer: yeah, the basic point is that human nature kind of sucks, especially on a large scale :( |
| 22:31.51 | Mr_Rabies | generally speaking nations tend to have communist revolutions and the people who won the revolution don't wanna give up their power, that's the big issue |
| 22:32.07 | Mr_Rabies | that's why i think a little self-delusion is the only way to stay sane |
| 22:32.19 | Primer | Amarande: I'm not sure it's something we can overcome either |
| 22:32.42 | Mr_Rabies | there's a great quote from men in black, Amarande |
| 22:32.42 | Amarande | well, there is the argument that everything gets screwed up by people in charge exploiting it for their own power, so one solution kinda suggests itself |
| 22:32.47 | Amarande | "all hail our robot overlords" |
| 22:32.53 | Amarande | except ... someone's got to program the robots :| |
| 22:33.10 | Mr_Rabies | "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet." |
| 22:33.24 | Primer | The only way I can see it working is when we have 2 things: robots and infinite energy |
| 22:33.25 | Neffi | +1 for MiB |
| 22:33.45 | Mr_Rabies | well hey, google just bought boston dynamics, they couldn't possibly have ulterior motives |
| 22:33.54 | Amarande | Primer: yeah, resource scarcity also tends to defeat even the best of ideas in the long run |
| 22:34.08 | Amarande | it's part of why mmos aren't really all that great at mirroring real economics, for instance :) |
| 22:34.17 | Neffi | Well except that bit about the flatness of the earth isn't right. The Greeks figured out the earth was round, and it's a misconception that the knowledge was ever forgotten. Where the myth about Columbus comes from, I dont know. |
| 22:34.19 | Primer | and infinite energy implied transformation of said energy into any form of matter |
| 22:34.20 | Mr_Rabies | (also i realize the earth was flat thing is false but whatever, it's a good quote otherwise, don't be pedantic) |
| 22:34.25 | Amarande | because there's always the option of going and getting some of your own thanks to infinitely respawning resources |
| 22:34.29 | Mr_Rabies | i was typing that before neffi said it :p |
| 22:34.40 | Neffi | ah. blame me for being pedentic then D: |
| 22:34.51 | Amarande | (although, things like the WoW AH do fairly accurately capture concepts like market competition and the relation between supply, demand, and price) |
| 22:34.52 | Primer | but then I imagine people will become like the residents of Solaria |
| 22:35.11 | Mr_Rabies | actually i think mmos are pretty good at emulating real economies, Amarande |
| 22:35.11 | Primer | hopefully enough people have read Asimov here :) |
| 22:35.17 | Mr_Rabies | the real money isn't in production |
| 22:35.21 | Mr_Rabies | it's controlling supply and demand |
| 22:35.35 | Mr_Rabies | if you can wrangle those and get a monopoly, you win |
| 22:35.47 | Amarande | Mr_Rabies: OTOH, in WoW, if mithril is too expensive you haul your butt out to plaguelands, squish zombies, and gather your own |
| 22:35.58 | Mr_Rabies | then i buy what you listed and relist at my rate |
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| 22:36.03 | Amarande | in the real world, if mithril, or, well, an equivalent resource is too expensive and you haul your butt out to where it's located |
| 22:36.14 | Amarande | you'll just find yourself in the stockades for stealing from the property owners :) |
| 22:36.25 | Amarande | so you HAVE TO stick with what's offered on the markets |
| 22:36.26 | airtonix | or labeled a pedo |
| 22:36.31 | Neffi | I think you miss the point Amarande |
| 22:36.38 | Mr_Rabies | that's the thing that seperates the real life from wow |
| 22:36.41 | Primer | man, I was hoping someone would know what Solaria was :( |
| 22:36.54 | Neffi | If there's a supply hole, it can be filled by industry. In WoW, that industry is the player |
| 22:36.55 | Mr_Rabies | no one actually owns the land in wow, i guess (other than external forces) |
| 22:36.57 | Amarande | Primer: there's probably forty-seven billion or so countries called Solaria in the world of sci-fi and fantasy |
| 22:37.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Sunshine` (Sunshine@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedb:9160) |
| 22:37.13 | Primer | Amarande: except I specifically mentioned Asimov |
| 22:37.15 | Amarande | it's the sort of name that comes easily when you're trying to name nations in Ye Olde D&D World, after all :) |
| 22:37.17 | Amarande | ah. |
| 22:37.28 | Primer | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solaria |
| 22:37.39 | Primer | feels like he explained a joke :( |
| 22:37.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Sunshine` (Sunshine@unaffiliated/sunshine/x-2691069) |
| 22:38.04 | Amarande | Primer: we already do know how energy can be transformed into matter, btw |
| 22:38.12 | Primer | how, sure |
| 22:38.28 | Amarande | the problem is we don't really have all *that* much control over it (although we do seem to be able to reliably synthesise antiprotons at places like CERN and such for experiments) |
| 22:38.41 | Primer | the scale is too small |
| 22:38.49 | Amarande | Primer: I was getting at the other problem, really |
| 22:38.50 | Primer | I'm thinking replicators (star trek) |
| 22:38.52 | Amarande | the paired nature of matter |
| 22:39.00 | Amarande | which frustrates almost EVERYTHING |
| 22:39.23 | Amarande | specifically this: you can not create matter ex nihilo, no matter how much energy you have on hand, without also creating its corresponding antimatter |
| 22:39.36 | Amarande | so every time you replicate a coffee, you've gotta figure out how to dispose of an anticoffee without blowing up the planet |
| 22:40.07 | Amarande | and even one anti-cup of joe is probably enough to obliterate your entire neighbourhood, at least, if things go wrong heh |
| 22:40.43 | Primer | Use it for propulsion, like in Star Trek |
| 22:41.14 | Amarande | Primer: okay, how are you going to build the infrastructure to transport everyone's anticoffee to a suitable facility |
| 22:41.36 | Primer | have the production facility be in orbit of a star |
| 22:41.41 | airtonix | easy |
| 22:41.43 | Primer | and just dump the waste into the star |
| 22:41.50 | airtonix | your replicators are also your generators |
| 22:42.04 | airtonix | man i'm awesome |
| 22:42.19 | Amarande | of course, yeah, it really is a matter of scale in the end |
| 22:42.31 | Amarande | because not only will one anticoffee destroy your entire city block to begin with |
| 22:42.53 | Amarande | but you need to have that (twice that, really) amount of city-block-obliterating energy on hand to create the coffee-anticoffee pair to begin with :| |
| 22:43.13 | airtonix | at least we get coffee |
| 22:43.21 | airtonix | i think that's all that matters |
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| 22:43.35 | Amarande | airtonix: and maybe an annoying coworker will drink the anticoffee by accident? |
| 22:43.52 | Amarande | wait, no, that doesn't work out well ... super giant obliterative happy fun ball of raw energy ... :( |
| 22:43.54 | airtonix | preferably while in transit to somewhere not near me |
| 22:45.20 | jleclanche | <sigh> ive done something like 60 runs and still didnt get http://www.wowhead.com/item=97982/vial-of-reddish-ooze |
| 22:46.10 | Primer | I've had one of those in my bags for ages |
| 22:46.20 | Primer | I just CBF to do brawlers once I hit rank 10 |
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| 22:51.39 | jleclanche | Primer: I'm on my 4th Bear & Lady Fair |
| 22:51.41 | jleclanche | but still no vial |
| 22:52.06 | Primer | I never bothered to do the side quests |
| 22:52.28 | Primer | well, I did the blingtron 3.0 one |
| 22:52.49 | jleclanche | the vial is the last one i need :/ |
| 22:55.14 | Amarande | which event week is it now? |
| 22:55.57 | Amarande | at least, bear & lady fair sounds like something out of a spring seasonal event, but I've never heard of that before |
| 22:56.17 | Amarande | otoh, of all the seasons of the year, I tend to be least active in WoW during springtime, so I don't really know the spring events well at all :S |
| 22:56.57 | Kodiack | http://youtu.be/b3b7fZIT0nk |
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| 23:08.06 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 23:15.36 | jleclanche | Primer: wtf another bear |
| 23:16.52 | *** join/#wowuidev End (~end@2601:1:9300:cd7:21d:7dff:fe06:a45) |
| 23:17.08 | Primer | a bear, a bear! |
| 23:17.16 | Kodiack | a maiden fair?! |
| 23:19.05 | alestane | http://stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks |
| 23:19.08 | Amarande | ah brawler's guild |
| 23:19.27 | Amarande | I'm not sure I ever did manage to get in on that one |
| 23:19.30 | jleclanche | yeah Amarande and this is massive bullshit |
| 23:19.42 | Amarande | I would always keep getting outbid for the membership thingies on BMAH |
| 23:19.49 | jleclanche | uh |
| 23:19.54 | jleclanche | they're overflowing now |
| 23:20.07 | Amarande | ah, maybe I'll give it a go when I play wow next |
| 23:20.18 | Amarande | also wowhead gives me the sads today |
| 23:20.32 | jleclanche | stop browsing it then |
| 23:20.41 | Amarande | they're starting to have friggin video ads with sound for friggin Dr Phil :P |
| 23:21.04 | Amarande | like, wtf |
| 23:21.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Razernok (~Razernok@71-91-125-249.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) |
| 23:21.22 | Amarande | used to be that geeky sites gave you ads for other geeky stuff, not things like tide and dr phil |
| 23:21.53 | Amarande | usually it's "play hearthstone!" or "actually buy that item that you were looking at on newegg!" or "you might be interested in this item that you just bought on newegg!" |
| 23:23.04 | jleclanche | wowhead isnt a geeky site |
| 23:23.30 | jleclanche | its a site that caters to the lowest common denominator of a community around a game that caters to the lowest common denominator of online gamers |
| 23:24.10 | TC-Work | "You are receiving this mail to acknowledge your amazing work on Maleficent. We thought it important to disclose that due to particularly strict credit limitations at Walt Disney Studios, your name does not appear in the film credits. We realize this is extremely disappointing and regret that this is the case." Uh, but I wasn't actually expecting it. |
| 23:24.26 | jleclanche | what did you do |
| 23:24.34 | TC-Work | Nothing |
| 23:24.37 | TC-Work | Hence I was not expecting it |
| 23:24.39 | jleclanche | did you even watch it? |
| 23:24.45 | TC-Work | It's not out yet |
| 23:24.45 | Razernok | anyone know why these pages are blank? http://old.wowace.com/Wiki/Make_it_Ace%27d http://old.wowace.com/Wiki/Ace3#Ace3_Philosophy |
| 23:25.00 | jleclanche | TC-Work: troll them back and take them to court for not being in the credit |
| 23:25.07 | TC-Work | I think it releases on friday or something |
| 23:25.25 | TC-Work | But they didn't troll me. |
| 23:25.36 | Stanzilla | Razernok: look at the link |
| 23:25.49 | Amarande | jleclanche: heh |
| 23:26.09 | Razernok | nothing wrong with the link |
| 23:26.12 | Amarande | my usual thought on such matters is that if you're playing video games at all, especially ones that require an ongoing monthly subscription just for that game, you're to some degree a gamer geek :) |
| 23:26.19 | Razernok | it was linked from the tutorial http://wowpedia.org/WelcomeHome_-_Your_first_Ace3_Addon |
| 23:26.59 | jleclanche | Amarande: so to you, "being a geek" is "spending money to have fun in return"? |
| 23:27.30 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 23:27.58 | Neffi | no, we call that a trick |
| 23:28.49 | Amarande | Razernok: ahhh the eternal problem with some development platforms |
| 23:29.05 | Razernok | huh? |
| 23:29.29 | Amarande | Razernok: the fact that a hello world tutorial is still expected even for platforms of a tier that is way too complex for a hello world program to need :) |
| 23:30.03 | Amarande | it must be fun to write such tutorials, to try to figure out how to make it actually need a feature of the library |
| 23:30.16 | Razernok | I'm talking about two links to wowace site that are blank pages |
| 23:31.34 | Amarande | however, presumably wowace simply changed its design to obsolete those pages, while nobody updated wowpedia accordingly |
| 23:32.21 | Amarande | Aright Razernok, if you ever start up a wiki, we're going to make you responsible every time you delete a page for finding EVERY external wiki that links to you and fixing those too ... :D |
| 23:33.18 | Razernok | I'm just trying to find the damn pages is all |
| 23:34.49 | Amarande | they may not exist anymore? |
| 23:35.00 | Amarande | not every removed wiki page gets replaced with a substitute, some just go away |
| 23:35.52 | Razernok | if I can't find the pages then I can't do this tutorial |
| 23:43.44 | jleclanche | another fucking book =( |
| 23:43.47 | jleclanche | so much for random is random |
| 23:44.21 | pompy | http://www.videocorner.tv/videocorner2/live_flv/index.php?langue=en 1hr30min |
| 23:53.00 | Amarande | jleclanche: of course it's random. the item you want is weighted to have a 0.0001% chance and the other ones are chosen from randomly :) |
| 23:53.26 | Amarande | as for how the server knows which item you want, that's secret, only MMORPG developers apparently know how to make the computer do that |
| 23:54.44 | Amarande | it's just like relics in sw:tor, I swear the server is actively weighted to choose light side relics if you're dark side and vice versa heh |
| 23:55.04 | Amarande | or how when we raided ICC we basically never had a hunter and only rarely had a shaman, so the server graciously showered us in gifts of mail armour and ranged weapons |
