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| 00:35.19 | Arrowmaster | new (not really, just a variant) linux rootkit making the rounds, nobody in this thread knows the attack vector though http://www.reddit.com/r/linuxadmin/comments/23vhtd/anyone_seeing_weird_ssh_user_accepted_logs/ |
| 00:35.29 | Arrowmaster | heads up for people running servers |
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| 00:46.38 | Neffi | <PROTECTED> |
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| 00:47.33 | Jamash | oh good, I thought my loot powers were on the fritz, just got two rares and a golden epic |
| 00:47.37 | Jamash | things are back to normal |
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| 00:50.54 | Neffi | haha oh god I'm in tears http://youtu.be/5Krz-dyD-UQ <- GoT fans |
| 00:51.09 | Jamash | Neffi: Glad to see G+ is getting sent to the corner |
| 00:51.37 | Jamash | maybe google will fix some of the myriad bugs in their other products |
| 00:52.10 | Jamash | Also, jesus christ, 1000 employees? What were a thousand employees doing working on G+? |
| 00:56.48 | Semlar | probably thinking up ways to annoy youtube users |
| 00:57.27 | Semlar | no google, i would not like to merge my accounts |
| 01:00.53 | Arrowmaster | why do so many people have issues with youtube accounts now? mine still says Arrowmaster on youtube |
| 01:01.16 | Semlar | do you upload videos |
| 01:01.34 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 01:01.44 | Semlar | the nag screen is attached to the upload page |
| 01:02.10 | Semlar | it probably also depends on whether you have a gmail account attached to it or something though |
| 01:02.12 | Arrowmaster | i doubt most of the people i hear bitching upload videos |
| 01:02.33 | Semlar | i had to adblock their javascript file to get it to stop |
| 01:03.16 | Semlar | also if your account was made after a certain point it's already merged with a G+ account |
| 01:03.35 | Semlar | it just automatically creates one for you |
| 01:03.53 | Primer | Anyone able to run battle.net client with wine? |
| 01:04.00 | Primer | It's still very crashy for me |
| 01:04.15 | Primer | and apparently one can't run Hearthstone without it |
| 01:05.37 | Arrowmaster | let me try it, i probably havent run it recently enough for it to update |
| 01:05.43 | kd3|hate`net | the new client works fine in wine |
| 01:05.52 | kd3 | (I'm using it for hots) |
| 01:06.02 | Arrowmaster | bastard |
| 01:06.04 | kd3 | just make sure you're using up-to-date wine |
| 01:08.09 | Primer | well, I only have a 64 bit version |
| 01:08.22 | Arrowmaster | seems theres a new version of crossover for me to install (why wont you just put the deb in a repo codeweavers) |
| 01:08.26 | Primer | I'm currently setting up a container to build a 32 bit wine |
| 01:10.09 | kd3 | my auto 32/64-bit winebuild script: http://dpaste.com/1795602/ |
| 01:10.25 | Neffi | Arrowmaster: have you ever left a comment or tried to message a user? |
| 01:10.42 | Arrowmaster | why would i ever leave a comment on youtube? |
| 01:11.00 | Neffi | A while ago now, Youtube refused to let me do either without merging. And for a while, it didn't allow me to favorite videos without setting up G+ either, even after I merged. |
| 01:11.31 | Neffi | I had to set up an empty G+ to be able to use pretty much any YT feature |
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| 01:57.45 | kd3 | hahaha, a melee at the fairground: https://imgur.com/7XwLVoD |
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| 02:45.58 | TC-Work | I was really enjoying css till I realized that you can't have validation enabled for hidden fields |
| 02:46.28 | TC-Work | I feel that it should ignore that keyword if it is hidden |
| 02:50.50 | kullervo | why don't these loot filter addons remove the offending items automatically |
| 02:51.10 | Dagmar | Maybe they're not offensive |
| 02:51.13 | kullervo | maybe it's a silent conflict caused by something else |
| 02:51.16 | Dagmar | Maybe you're just over-sensitive |
| 02:51.36 | kullervo | Dagmar: maybe you'd better shut up if you can't contribute |
| 02:52.16 | kd3 | looks for some popcorn |
| 02:52.45 | TC-Work | hands kd3 some. |
| 02:52.57 | Dagmar | I guarantee you the client doesn't find them to be offending. That could be either because ti doesn't have a match or it never considered it |
| 02:53.14 | Dagmar | So actually try to see if it's even evaluating that |
| 02:53.45 | Dagmar | THe comment was actually meant to nudge you into thinking more specifically about what the client _was_ thinking |
| 02:54.19 | kullervo | well here I have this item that matches all of the filters and appears on the list of unwanted items |
| 02:54.57 | Dagmar | So slip some good old fashioned printk's er... prints in there |
| 02:55.44 | Dagmar | Luckily, no one's likely to see the output but you |
| 02:55.47 | kullervo | it's not actally my addon. It's just that usually someone knows that thing X can cause a conflict |
| 02:56.15 | Dagmar | I had to explain to coworkers yesterday why kickstart started randomly saying "NARF!" "*p00t*" "NARF!" |
| 02:57.21 | Dagmar | Even better. You get to dirty up someone else's code. :) |
| 02:57.23 | Neffi | narfpoots Dagmar |
| 02:57.34 | kullervo | no I'm not going to |
| 02:57.35 | Dagmar | Neffi: Hey I was trying to find a bug in the package selector |
| 02:57.46 | Neffi | oh ok carry on the |
| 02:58.37 | Dagmar | Neffi: Could have been worse. At home I just tend to stick "echo 'Fuck you.'" into a lot of places |
| 02:59.14 | Dagmar | I still think the cfengine people are smoking something |
| 02:59.23 | Neffi | One day I hope to be using some very professional-looking software with a very professional-looking site run by some very professional-looking tightwads, and have it yell "fuck you" at me |
| 02:59.58 | Neffi | it just wouldnt be as funny if somebody with a sense of humor produced software that did that |
| 03:00.38 | Dagmar | I'm trying to get Niantic to make the Ingress client laugh at people when they accientally recycle (i.e, *destroy*) a power cube instead of using it |
| 03:01.03 | Neffi | yup. I know some of those words |
| 03:01.33 | Dagmar | Just imagine that instead of loading the rare etherium shards into the staff of awesome, you accidentally deleted them |
| 03:02.05 | Neffi | :| |
| 03:02.07 | Dagmar | WoW makes you type 'D-E-L-E-T-E' to get rid of purples |
| 03:02.15 | Dagmar | Ingress just says "+120XM" |
| 03:02.24 | Dagmar | ...instead of "+8000XM" |
| 03:02.31 | Neffi | how silly |
| 03:03.00 | Dagmar | There's rather a lot the Niantic people have yet to learn |
| 03:03.16 | Dagmar | They had a freaking _dupe_ bug this weekend. |
| 03:03.30 | Dagmar | I think they're hiring freshmen or something |
| 03:03.37 | Neffi | WoW has had dupe bugs, no? |
| 03:03.53 | Dagmar | Neffi: not in bloody _ages_ because they've learned to use UUIDs |
| 03:04.47 | Dagmar | Despite the massiave latency and the fact that they're working on a _widely_ distributed database with even more latency, they still haven't gotten that clue at Niantic |
| 03:05.04 | kullervo | Dagmar: it's wow's native autoloot that messes things up. |
| 03:05.26 | Dagmar | kullervo: Ahhh.... So the problem is likely that the addon hasn't been updated to hook that yet |
| 03:05.45 | Dagmar | bug report time! yay! |
| 03:06.17 | kullervo | Dagmar: that has something to do with it, see, I also noticed the addon last updated in 2010. |
| 03:06.35 | Dagmar | Oh wow yeah almost certainly it doesn't have a hook for htat then |
| 03:06.42 | kullervo | Yep. |
| 03:06.53 | Dagmar | The aoe looting thing caused a bunch of grief at first |
| 03:08.05 | kullervo | it's buggy as hell. Causes no actions to register for several seconds after looting anything with large amounts of loot. |
| 03:08.25 | kullervo | Drives me mad when I'm aoe farming the tier 1 ordos mobs. |
| 03:09.49 | Arrowmaster | "Luckily we have a live ammo testing range out here in the desert and we just duct tape the drives to a bomb being used for the exercises." |
| 03:09.59 | Dagmar | YEAH! |
| 03:10.02 | Arrowmaster | lol best one ive heard yet for disposing of a harddrive |
| 03:10.24 | Dagmar | Disperses bits evenly across a large area notwork |
| 03:10.35 | kullervo | that's pretty great |
| 03:10.42 | kd3 | that sounds more fun than just using the industrial shredder |
| 03:11.30 | kullervo | silly standards that require physical destruction though. |
| 03:11.58 | Neffi | On a big drive, blowing is up is sure quicker than DBANing it |
| 03:12.11 | kullervo | oh yeah sure it's faster |
| 03:12.31 | kullervo | but in this day and age eco-friendliness is a thing too |
| 03:13.53 | Neffi | Well if the bomb is big enough, it'll certainly blow the drive into nice small fragments, which is roughly the equivalent of "biodegradable" plastic |
| 03:14.38 | kullervo | nah I meant in general, this surely is a corner case |
| 03:15.04 | kullervo | shredding disks is a relatively large waste of resources in big companies |
| 03:15.35 | Neffi | somebody should release an article about how the NSA has the resources to collect the fragments and get the data back off. what will they do then? |
| 03:15.51 | kd3 | the military would have a conniption, for one |
| 03:19.57 | kullervo | there was a court case in the 90s when an HP spokesman had claimed that Blancco data destroyal can be reversed |
| 03:20.15 | kullervo | but it turned out it's physically impossible especially in new drives |
| 03:29.52 | Dagmar | It's actually pretty easy to make modern drives unreadable. |
| 03:30.07 | Dagmar | Pop the top, remove the bolts holding hte platters in place, and give them a little spin individually |
| 03:30.22 | Arrowmaster | there has been an open challenge to the data recovery firms to recover data from a drive that has had a single pass of dd writing zeros to the drive, no company has ever accepted the challenge |
| 03:30.25 | Dagmar | The data is now as fucked as fucked gets |
| 03:31.06 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: Because it takes the power of a tunneling microscope and some grad students who have never had sex to do it |
| 03:32.15 | Iriel | To a certain extent those who have actually have a REAL reason to want to erase a drive, it’s not worth risking a “cheaper” disposal mechanism because there could be some breakthrough in tunneling microscope technology or whatever 10 years from now that gets the data out |
| 03:32.30 | Iriel | Granted most folks dont fall into that category |
| 03:32.38 | Dagmar | Those people just burn the drive |
| 03:32.52 | Iriel | People used to think cross cut shredding was irreversible |
| 03:32.53 | Iriel | Right |
| 03:33.24 | Dagmar | Reasonable people just do an ATA secure wipe, or a zero fill with dd followed by two complementary pattern passes |
| 03:33.25 | Iriel | I usually dismantle my drives and pull the platters out, and then keep them for decor |
| 03:33.27 | kullervo | Dagmar: that was software, not physically ruining the drive |
| 03:33.32 | Dagmar | ...and then check the SMART sector reallocated count |
| 03:33.44 | Iriel | but also I tend to be discarding drives that are far too old to be of use to anyone |
| 03:34.01 | Dagmar | I've got a tool here somewhere for the secure wipe, but it's not entirely reliable |
| 03:34.06 | kd3 | glances at the pile of old drives and pci cards sitting on a bookshelf |
| 03:34.11 | Dagmar | UNsuprisingly not everyone implements it on the same instruction |
| 03:34.31 | Iriel | Far too old to be of use to anyone normal. |
| 03:34.53 | Dagmar | Yeah I've done my share of triple-pass wipes on ancient ass ultra-scsi drives |
| 03:34.54 | kullervo | it's a shame old SSDs aren't of ANY use, even as decor |
| 03:35.01 | kullervo | they're too small for coasters as well |
| 03:36.08 | Dagmar | They'll hold down helium balloons pretty well |
| 03:36.29 | kullervo | if it's a small balloon |
| 03:36.32 | Iriel | Speaking of SSD’s - what’s the capacity/price sweet spot like at the moment? |
| 03:36.52 | znf | http://i.imgur.com/p1zK2i0.png |
| 03:36.53 | znf | SHIT |
| 03:36.56 | Iriel | The last 2 I’ve gotten were part of machines so I haven’t picked one up on its own for a long time |
| 03:36.59 | Dagmar | I don't think I'd call it "sweet" still, but ata least it's under $1/Gb sometimes now |
| 03:37.16 | Iriel | znf: what’s the problem there? |
| 03:37.17 | kullervo | Dagmar: maybe for 500GB drives |
| 03:37.24 | Iriel | znf: if just works when that happens |
| 03:37.34 | ccox | $500 for 1 TB Samsung SSD |
| 03:37.36 | Dagmar | znf: You didn't uninstall the vmware tools did you? |
| 03:37.37 | kullervo | before christmas the cheapest I saw were ~$120 for 250GB drives |
| 03:37.41 | znf | Iriel, "06:37:33 up 1275 days, 7:37, 9 users, load average: 0.08, 0.09, 0.09" |
| 03:37.45 | pompy | so yeah, http://www.cnet.com/news/putin-the-internet-is-a-cia-project/ |
| 03:37.46 | Iriel | znf: ah.. |
| 03:37.53 | Dagmar | znf: Dude it's a virtual, right? |
| 03:38.04 | znf | Dagmar, yes! |
| 03:38.04 | ccox | correction, now down to $454 on amazon |
| 03:38.12 | Dagmar | znf: It'll live migrate off |
| 03:38.16 | ccox | SSD prices have droped a lot since XMas |
| 03:38.24 | znf | I know, but then I was waiting for that migration... |
| 03:38.25 | Dagmar | They're just warning you "in case" something goes wrong |
| 03:38.40 | znf | and was hoping it will happen later |
| 03:38.47 | znf | when I have time... 4th of may is /such/ a bad time :-/ |
| 03:38.50 | Dagmar | Why? It won't affect your uptime counter |
| 03:39.13 | kullervo | haha. |
| 03:39.15 | znf | uhm, yes they are |
| 03:39.21 | znf | they're migrating to another physical server |
| 03:39.21 | Dagmar | wtf |
| 03:39.27 | Dagmar | Yeah so? |
| 03:39.33 | Dagmar | Are they using QEMM or something over there? |
| 03:39.36 | znf | they're retiring the actual physical server... |
| 03:39.39 | Dagmar | We live-migrate stuff all the time |
| 03:39.43 | Dagmar | Services don't even stop |
| 03:39.46 | znf | no, they're using Xen, afaik |
| 03:39.53 | kd3 | so you're upset that you're losing your uptime epeen? |
| 03:40.00 | Dagmar | ...UNLESS someone was dumb enough to not make sure the vmware tools was up to date |
| 03:40.16 | znf | I don't think Xen has anything to do with vmware :P |
| 03:40.26 | Dagmar | If that's out of date, it freezes the VM during the migration so basically time _stops_ for that server until the migration is complete |
| 03:40.47 | Dagmar | znf: Well let's just hope they've caught up with the technology then because even virtd can do this now |
| 03:41.07 | znf | I needed to upgrade the VM anyway |
| 03:41.12 | znf | They since have quadrupled the ram... |
| 03:41.25 | Dagmar | WE've got a giant ass cluster of ESX hosts at work. VMs migrate where and when they feel like it, basically |
| 03:41.58 | Dagmar | znf: Okay for that much more RAM I'd not really mind the uptime resetting |
| 03:42.16 | znf | I have 1GB ram, now my plan is 4GB lol |
| 03:42.19 | Dagmar | I mean normally you don't see that kind of uptime unless something got drywalled up |
| 03:42.33 | znf | also they're using SSDs |
| 03:42.39 | Dagmar | ...like CMU finally finding a Sun box that was inside a fucking wall |
| 03:42.40 | znf | meh, I guess I've been post-poning this forever |
| 03:42.52 | znf | I'm still on ubuntu 10.04... |
| 03:43.06 | Dagmar | Something like six years of uptime |
| 03:43.20 | Neffi | <Dagmar> ...like CMU finally finding a Sun box that was inside a fucking wall <- o.O |
| 03:43.32 | Dagmar | They'd remodeled where it was, and somehow it got sealed behind _drywall_ |
| 03:43.42 | Neffi | how the fuck |
| 03:43.49 | kd3 | ...10.04? how have you not gotten owned by the rootkit du jour yet? |
| 03:43.57 | znf | kd3, no? |
| 03:44.02 | Dagmar | Neffi: CMU is a little bit crazy people |
| 03:44.04 | znf | 10.04 is a LTS version |
| 03:44.13 | znf | it still has support until 2015... |
| 03:44.18 | Dagmar | Neffi: Keep in mind it's sort of the spiritual home of AFS |
| 03:44.23 | Neffi | litttle bit? wow |
| 03:44.43 | znf | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTS?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ubuntu-release-cycle-2.png <-- 2015 |
| 03:44.47 | Dagmar | Until about 2000, if they had a power failure they had to have six people stationed around campus to bring things up at _precisely_ the same time... "or else" |
| 03:45.11 | Dagmar | Betweeen Kerneros, AFS, and Shibboleth... *shudder* |
| 03:45.28 | Neffi | i dont know what those things are, but I wonder wtf they are doing with themselves |
| 03:45.48 | Dagmar | They were large before people invented "datacenter consolidation" |
| 03:46.03 | Dagmar | Sooo.. just imaging a campus where every fifth room has a small stack of machines in it |
| 03:46.39 | Dagmar | They have a goddamn VAX Preservation Society there |
| 03:46.50 | kd3 | eew |
| 03:47.06 | Dagmar | I tried to talk people into shipping our old VAX there |
| 03:47.46 | Dagmar | I do not normally get sentimental about stuff like that, but even *I* showed up for the powering-off ceremoney |
| 03:47.54 | Dagmar | It was where I got my first "real" internet account |
| 03:48.23 | Dagmar | I didn't have to address mail via bangpath anymore. :) |
| 03:49.20 | Dagmar | mk3: The fucked up thing... when I was working in the NOC, Ed had me do one of their "occasional" things because I'd had too much caffiene and I was annoying him. It was to empty the admin mail spool on the VAX |
| 03:49.39 | Dagmar | mk3: I hadn't used VAX mail in umm... 10 years or so |
| 03:49.56 | Dagmar | mk3: My fucking _fingers_ rememered what to type |
| 03:50.00 | Dagmar | er remembered |
| 03:50.25 | Dagmar | The strangest sensation I've ever had in front of a computer |
| 03:50.28 | znf | Bah. Biggest issue I have with this migration is that I have to upgrade to 14.04, that means that I will have to change major PHP version... Wonder what will I break >_< |
| 03:50.47 | Dagmar | znf: Doesn't this mean you'll also be taking systemd up the whoohoo |
| 03:50.48 | kd3 | everything. it's php |
| 03:50.54 | znf | Dagmar, yeah |
| 03:51.01 | Dagmar | No more undeclared globals for you! |
| 03:51.11 | Dagmar | znf: My condolences |
| 03:51.33 | znf | I don't have any fancy start-up scripts anyway. That VPSs only function is to host websites. |
| 03:51.39 | Dagmar | At least with respect to PHP if you were anal enough about it it everything should still work |
| 03:51.59 | Dagmar | If not, your error_log will grow at a rate of 19.6Mb/s |
| 03:52.17 | znf | well, I have no control over what software is running on the "web" part. So I'm not sure what CMS' will I break :P |
| 03:52.30 | Dagmar | znf: Oh dear |
| 03:52.43 | znf | Everything should be recent enough, though. |
| 03:52.46 | Dagmar | znf: So... one of the advantages to working as a sysadmin where I work is kind of masochistic |
| 03:53.09 | znf | if not, I'll just bitch to the "website guy" :D |
| 03:53.16 | kd3 | ...isn't everyone who self-identifies as 'sysadmin' a masochist? |
| 03:53.17 | Dagmar | znf: Thousands of users, pulling scripts from god-knows-where that were written by god-knows-who on no-one-knows-what drugs |
| 03:53.29 | znf | I'll fire off a mass-email to everyone involved. I'll act like an asshole. Np. |
| 03:53.50 | Dagmar | znf: What happens when someone has written a script that runs a tight little loop that expected to access a global they did not declare can up and fucking murder the box |
| 03:54.04 | znf | well, good thing it's linode |
| 03:54.11 | Dagmar | ...unless you have defined some very careful ulimits to keep the webserver from shitting all over the disk |
| 03:54.20 | znf | even if the machine breaks everything network, I can still access it |
| 03:54.24 | Dagmar | In a VM environment, this can reach _terrifying_ levels |
| 03:55.05 | Dagmar | This one cat's script was failing to check EOF, so the loop was especially tight, and it was resulting in, no joke, 12 _million_ lines to the error log every fiften seconsd |
| 03:55.16 | znf | Ouch |
| 03:55.21 | Dagmar | This would exhaust the disk throughput |
| 03:55.29 | Dagmar | ...and then begin buffering into RAM |
| 03:56.04 | Dagmar | The OOM killer would then assassinate the kernel |
| 03:56.35 | Dagmar | ...and the best part is, being an unclean shutdown, journaling would quietly dispose of all the evidence |
| 03:57.00 | Fisker- | hey Dagmar |
| 03:57.18 | Dagmar | The only reason I figured it out was tailing all the logs on the box in realtime, and _waiting_ |
| 03:57.48 | Dagmar | ...because this department would run this freaking PHP script through the web server at about the same time every morning. |
| 03:57.57 | Dagmar | Click the button... server times out. They'd shrug and click it again. |
| 03:57.58 | pompy | Sounds like the way the packager on Curse will (always) act , i doubt it'll be rewritten in time for WoD! |
| 03:58.16 | Dagmar | A little blue haired lady. |
| 03:58.43 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (~RyanNL@adsl-74-242-165-58.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 03:59.01 | Dagmar | The server would time out because she'd just killed it |
| 03:59.11 | Dagmar | The load balancer would take her next click to the _other_ server |
| 03:59.36 | Dagmar | Set some ulimits on the webserver before you let people's unupdated PHP run amoke |
| 03:59.50 | Dagmar | ...and prepare for mayhem anyway |
| 04:00.37 | znf | I'm confident I can fix it. At least in this department, LInode rocks |
| 04:01.03 | Fisker- | :( |
| 04:01.09 | Dagmar | Oh yes, I could always get the webserver back up by hitting the virtual power button |
| 04:01.23 | znf | Heh: http://i.imgur.com/4h2iKaY.png |
| 04:01.25 | Dagmar | Otherwise I'd have been sleeping next to it on a cot |
| 04:01.27 | znf | 3 years and 5 months ago... |
| 04:01.29 | Dagmar | I was pissed |
| 04:03.20 | kullervo | hey what's the name of that instance with the druids of the Fang in it? |
| 04:04.04 | kd3 | rfk? |
| 04:04.25 | kullervo | no I mean the one in northern barrens |
| 04:04.39 | znf | wailing caverns? |
| 04:04.51 | kullervo | yes, thanks |
| 04:05.03 | kullervo | easier to ask than fly there to check |
| 04:05.20 | kd3 | wailing caverns |
| 04:05.23 | kd3 | not rfk |
| 04:06.12 | kullervo | wowhead lists heroic loot for it ._. |
| 04:06.19 | znf | maybe in 6.0! |
| 04:06.23 | kullervo | the detection must be working mighty fine |
| 04:07.50 | Fisker- | hey kd3 |
| 04:07.55 | kd3 | 'lo |
| 04:09.49 | Fisker- | yay |
| 04:09.54 | Fisker- | *nick Fisker |
| 04:09.55 | Fisker- | damnit |
| 04:38.17 | znf | so, EU-wise, Hetzner has the cheapest servers around, right? |
| 04:45.45 | Primer | Is it just not possible to play hearthstone with a specific person? |
| 04:46.09 | Primer | because I've been up and down the UI and I can find absolutely no way to do this |
| 04:46.12 | Xuerian | Friends list, challenge to battle. |
| 04:46.16 | Xuerian | last I played, anyway |
| 04:46.21 | Primer | no such option |
| 04:46.33 | Xuerian | It was there somewhere. |
| 04:46.35 | Xuerian | shrugs. |
| 04:46.47 | Xuerian | More there is a way, less it was where I suggested. |
| 04:47.22 | Primer | oh, it's an icon |
| 04:47.39 | Primer | wtf, I never thought to click that |
| 04:47.40 | Primer | thanks |
| 04:51.48 | Primer | playing against my son...and I forgot to attack |
| 04:52.04 | Primer | he yelled from his room "you forgot to attack, dad!" |
| 04:52.15 | znf | So... Does anyone know of "SetFSB" for windows? |
| 04:52.35 | znf | little tool to increase the FSB, from Windows |
| 04:53.06 | znf | Question is - is it "normal" that my FSB settings persist even a hard reboot? (Heck, even after a shut-down) |
| 04:53.18 | Primer | wtf is fsb |
| 04:53.26 | znf | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front-side_bus |
| 04:53.37 | Primer | wait, computers still have that? |
| 04:53.51 | znf | not anymore |
| 04:54.31 | znf | Anyway, you can increase the frequency under Windows |
| 04:54.38 | znf | thing is, I'm pretty sure that setting *shouldn't* stick |
| 04:57.31 | pompy | https://www.facebook.com/ZacharyLevi/posts/10152095696227444?stream_ref=10 |
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| 05:01.11 | Fisker | I miss kd3 |
| 05:28.42 | Thunder_Child | Were you shooting at him? |
| 05:38.49 | Fisker | Maybe |
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| 06:59.19 | ccox | Cairenn: http://blog.petflow.com/a-fox-cub-showed-up-in-our-back-yard-i-cant-believe-what-happened/?utm_source=fbspblogrescuefoxcub&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=foxcub |
| 06:59.46 | Cairenn | dawwwwww |
| 07:00.31 | Cairenn | DAWWWWWWW |
| 07:00.40 | Cairenn | the lickins! |
| 07:00.51 | Cairenn | the playins! |
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| 07:01.58 | ccox | apparently that was from 2008, but got reposted today elsewhere |
| 07:03.22 | Cairenn | It's too cute |
| 07:05.45 | Fisker | Cairenn |
| 07:06.04 | Cairenn | Hi Fisker |
| 07:06.10 | Fisker | hi |
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| 09:33.34 | zenzio | some coding styles should just not be allowed... http://pastebin.com/JKYued5P |
| 09:34.26 | Humbedooh | some languages should not be allowed... |
| 09:34.33 | nevcairiel | the code seems rather bonkers, but whats wrong with the style? |
| 09:35.11 | zenzio | I don't appreciate brace-less control statements in general, but even less so when they're nested |
| 09:35.32 | zenzio | it works though, not arguing that |
| 09:37.54 | zenzio | I'm one of those guys who use case: { } though, so I may just have a brace fetish |
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| 09:47.43 | karl_w_w | I agree with Humbedooh |
| 09:48.11 | zenzio | starting with Danish |
| 09:48.37 | Humbedooh | we all know, Danish programming languages should be forbidden by law |
| 09:49.16 | zenzio | inb4 someone draws a parallel between C++ and Danish |
| 09:49.50 | Humbedooh | php, c++, turbo pascal, c#, f...the list goes on :o |
| 09:51.03 | Fisker | sorry for being master race |
| 09:51.04 | zenzio | C# is Danish-y? |
| 09:52.29 | Humbedooh | yesh |
| 09:53.43 | Humbedooh | in fact, Anders Hejlsberg got an award for it some weeks ago |
| 09:53.55 | Humbedooh | he beat Bjarne Stroustrup! |
| 09:55.12 | zenzio | depending on the award, I'm not surprised |
| 09:55.20 | zenzio | C# is still a "hot" language |
| 09:57.35 | Humbedooh | IT Award of teh Year or some suh |
| 09:57.36 | Humbedooh | such* |
| 09:58.05 | Humbedooh | and yes, it's still quite hyped |
| 09:58.48 | Humbedooh | I worked for Microsoft some 10 years ago, and back then they all (almost) thought everything would be C# within a few years |
| 10:00.58 | mitch0 | yay, they finally killed nepomuk! |
| 10:03.35 | karl_w_w | C# is great |
| 10:04.01 | karl_w_w | nearly as good as Lua! :P |
| 10:04.05 | Humbedooh | :D |
| 10:04.08 | Humbedooh | nearly!! |
| 10:27.25 | Arrowmaster | only reason C# is useful though is because of mono |
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| 12:31.18 | zenzio | if anyone recalls my picture of a player going "somewhat" out of line in his rage in World of Tanks chat; apparently I wasn't the only person who reported him. Wargaming actually asked for the replay file. Nice to see that they really do do some policing |
| 12:32.12 | Fisker | asd |
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| 13:38.17 | zenzio | yhelothar peppy |
| 13:53.51 | karl_w_w | repost picture zenzio? |
| 13:54.23 | zenzio | http://imgur.com/fbse7wK |
| 13:59.55 | Dagmar | His vocabulary is limited and weak |
| 14:00.42 | Dagmar | On tat Intel thing? |
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| 15:10.29 | pompy | "Military training will be occurring today at the Warren Grove bombing range off Route 539. Please don't be alarmed if your home shakes." |
| 15:10.30 | pompy | hehehe |
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| 15:17.07 | Shirik | Thunder_Child: http://25.media.tumblr.com/fcdf1d7c242e4e2c1cacf391f252fac4/tumblr_n2kgr6QPHr1s9ot2ko1_500.jpg |
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| 15:22.38 | Unkle1 | http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/04/covert-bitcoin-miner-found-stashed-in-malicious-google-play-apps/ - something tells me Google is eventually going to have to take a firmer hand on what they let in the store... |
| 15:22.47 | Shirik | oh wow |
| 15:22.55 | Shirik | TIL a pill was made to limit drunkedness |
| 15:23.02 | Shirik | and the biochemistry totally makes sense |
| 15:23.22 | Shirik | it was made in the 2000s, but never hit the market because nobody wanted to sell it because of the liability issues |
| 15:23.46 | Kodiack | Why would you want a pill to limit drunkedness? That just seems wasteful |
| 15:24.09 | Shirik | to win a beer drinking contest? |
| 15:24.59 | Unkle1 | Shirik: link to said wonder-pill's biochemistry? I'm curious. |
| 15:25.14 | Shirik | it's part of a larger article, but believe it or not, it's very simple |
| 15:25.16 | Shirik | it's yeast. |
| 15:25.27 | Shirik | http://www.esquire.com/blogs/food-for-men/how-not-to-get-drunk?src=spr_TWITTER&spr_id=1456_54817919 |
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| 15:29.46 | Unkle1 | Shirik: Interesting. |
| 15:31.27 | karl_w_w | LoL has seasons? |
| 15:31.40 | bluspacecow | LOL |
| 15:31.40 | g0urra | yeah, next season it's RoFL |
| 15:31.41 | karl_w_w | why? how long do they last? |
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| 15:32.07 | karl_w_w | in this case LoL stands for League of Lesbians |
| 15:32.19 | karl_w_w | not Laughing out Loud |
| 15:35.31 | bluspacecow | *hits next song on iTunes* |
| 15:35.39 | bluspacecow | *doesnt change song** |
| 15:35.43 | bluspacecow | does it 4 times |
| 15:35.52 | bluspacecow | <—— listening to music via iPoad |
| 15:35.54 | bluspacecow | derp |
| 15:38.28 | Shirik | karl_w_w: for the same reason baseball, etc., have seasons? |
| 15:39.37 | karl_w_w | so that you can have a competition each year to see who is the winner? |
| 15:39.52 | Shirik | yes |
| 15:40.04 | karl_w_w | interesting |
| 15:40.41 | Wobin | all these games I want to play, but can't afford to on mobile data =P |
| 15:40.46 | Wobin | worst long weekend ever |
| 15:40.50 | karl_w_w | but isn't it a rating-style ladder? |
| 15:41.16 | Shirik | there is a pro circuit that is round robin style play |
| 15:41.47 | Shirik | the season for the general public runs in the same time frame |
| 15:42.10 | Shirik | higher divisions get higher rewards |
| 15:42.14 | Shirik | at the end of the season |
| 15:43.01 | Shirik | Presently in San Francisco, the company is taking it a step further with something that they are calling “the last mile.” |
| 15:43.05 | Shirik | fucking media |
| 15:43.09 | Shirik | EVERYONE calls it "the last mile" |
| 15:43.27 | bluspacecow | hmmm |
| 15:43.35 | bluspacecow | is that like those stephen king books |
| 15:43.46 | Shirik | ._. |
| 15:44.02 | bluspacecow | not that’s the green mile |
| 15:44.04 | bluspacecow | :| |
| 15:44.10 | bluspacecow | OH HAI SHIRIK |
| 15:44.17 | Shirik | hai bluspacecow |
| 15:44.22 | bluspacecow | wat do? |
| 15:44.54 | Shirik | work time :( |
| 15:45.00 | bluspacecow | :( |
| 15:45.04 | karl_w_w | oh bluspacecow I'm meant to harrass you! |
| 15:45.13 | karl_w_w | I just remembered |
| 15:45.23 | bluspacecow | NSFW : http://i.imgur.com/9eggtxI.gif |
| 15:45.30 | bluspacecow | has a butt wiggling snake instead |
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| 15:46.15 | karl_w_w | that gif put ronan keating's when you say nothing at all in my head |
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| 15:53.08 | Unkle1 | And wildstar beta key redeemed. Guess I know what I'm doing this weekend. |
| 15:54.07 | bluspacecow | watching reruns of Friends ? |
| 15:54.36 | karl_w_w | heh |
| 15:56.34 | Maldivia | Unkle: is wildstar all what it's hyped up to be? |
| 16:01.21 | bluspacecow | hmmm |
| 16:01.38 | bluspacecow | the one highlight of this weeks iOS games release is Wayward Souls |
| 16:01.49 | bluspacecow | which almost feels like an 8 bit version of D3 RoS |
| 16:01.58 | bluspacecow | *goes to play D3 instead* |
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| 16:06.09 | Maldivia | why play against Diablo... when you can play AS Diablo :P |
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| 16:09.45 | Shirik | Maldivia: Yes |
| 16:09.46 | Shirik | Yes it is |
| 16:09.53 | Shirik | and Unkle1 add me |
| 16:10.05 | Shirik | Maldivia: Wildstar is everything I ever wanted in an MMO |
| 16:12.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (Amarande@24-151-100-63.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 16:14.11 | g0urra | like what? |
| 16:19.16 | Unkle1 | Maldivia: I don't know. I just want to try it out. It looks like it /might/ be fun. |
| 16:19.45 | Unkle1 | Shirik: I'm UnkleWS. I still have to download and install the game client. |
| 16:20.05 | Shirik | so you haven't created a character |
| 16:20.09 | Shirik | so I can't really add you yet :) |
| 16:20.14 | Unkle1 | :P |
| 16:20.20 | Shirik | I am Kimina on Nexus |
| 16:21.20 | Unkle1 | I expect I'll be playing some time on Saturday since there's a lot to download. |
| 16:28.37 | Amarande | Which MMO are we speaking of? |
| 16:29.45 | Shirik | Wildstar |
| 16:30.52 | Amarande | Ah, I guess it would be either that or ESO at this point, people seem to barely talk about anything else anymore (except WoW, natch) |
| 16:31.01 | Amarande | I'm still thinking of giving FF14 a try soonish. Been playing TOR. |
| 16:32.02 | Amarande | or perhaps returning to WoW |
| 16:35.23 | Maldivia | Shirik: so I guess I should activate my beta key as well and play? |
| 16:35.30 | Shirik | yes |
| 16:35.32 | Shirik | yes you should |
| 16:36.36 | jleclanche | Shirik: how well does wildstar work on linux? |
| 16:38.04 | Amarande | *sigh* Linux |
| 16:38.19 | Amarande | I had a sad this week when I learned that Knoppix is no longer a usable thing for me :( |
| 16:38.44 | pompy | http://screenrant.com/sherlock-one-off-special-before-season-4/ |
| 16:38.46 | Amarande | just when I wanted to actually use a live DVD to do some one-off linuxy stuff on the machine, too :| |
| 16:41.16 | jleclanche | Amarande: one-off linuxy stuff: https://grml.org |
| 16:41.27 | jleclanche | thanks to Arrowmaster for telling me about this |
| 16:41.35 | jleclanche | i cant live without my arch+grml multi usb now |
| 16:41.36 | Amarande | jleclanche: how's the X driver support on that? |
| 16:41.40 | jleclanche | its fine |
| 16:41.44 | jleclanche | debian based, so |
| 16:41.49 | Amarande | I get the very distinct feeling that it might be GPU drivers that killed Knoppix :S |
| 16:42.07 | Amarande | jleclanche: even for recent gen nvidia? |
| 16:42.23 | jleclanche | uh, yeah |
| 16:42.35 | Amarande | with knoppix it was like, system boots fine, starts up X and then a short bit later it would freeze up and become unresponsive until the reset button was hit |
| 16:42.37 | jleclanche | especially recent gen nvidia :P they get all the hate but nvidia on linux is awesome |
| 16:42.58 | Amarande | jleclanche: I was asking because Debian tends to be particularly crappy when it comes to keeping up with GPUs :) |
| 16:43.43 | Amarande | basically, anything that's too new for the latest FOSS drivers to work well with and debian tends to be like "meh we don't really care, using the nvidia binary driver is the greater evil!" |
| 16:45.09 | Amarande | still remember when I got my 250 GTS and ended up going back to Windows because even sid didn't have new enough nvidia drivers for it *and* nvidia had somehow changed the install procedure, so it was impossible to build a .deb with the new enough drivers (to allow for later painless maintenance) without tools erroring :| |
| 16:47.17 | Amarande | I guess I could have installed the nVidia drivers using nVidia's installer, but I was concerned that that would result in hair-pulling should I need to upgrade the driver later :) |
| 16:48.35 | Amarande | ooh, can be dd'd straight to an empty usb key |
| 16:48.49 | Amarande | Now if I had a usb key that was small enough to not feel like an idiot using it for that purpose :) |
| 16:49.35 | alestane | Anyone have a $10 word handy that means "running back and forth"? |
| 16:51.18 | alestane | "Reciprocation" should do. |
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| 17:11.02 | Amarande | hmm, WoW pondering of the day |
| 17:11.09 | Dagmar | Amarande: If you were using a USB key small enough for that you'd feel dumb about having such a small thumbdrive still in production mode |
| 17:11.20 | Amarande | how is it that there are so many guilds that are very friendly and manage to get hundreds of members, even |
| 17:11.32 | Amarande | but ... they don't manage to get enough folks on at a time to raid? :( |
| 17:11.41 | nevcairiel | because its casual guilds |
| 17:11.42 | Dagmar | I've got a 4Gb TARDIS on the keychain of my car that presently contains: A scan of the purchase documentation, a scan of the registration documentation and... nothing else. |
| 17:11.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~RyanNL@adsl-74-242-165-58.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 17:11.56 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 17:11.59 | Dagmar | ...and alts. |
| 17:12.10 | Dagmar | We've got 135 toons in our guild, thirty-two members. |
| 17:12.12 | Amarande | Dagmar: well, I could use my 16GB or 32GB, but I'm wondering how much of an operation it's going to be to set up GRML onto it and still be able to use the rest of the space |
| 17:12.29 | Amarande | I presume if I just dd it like the quick instructions say, it'll basically be wiping out the rest of the drive as if it didn't exist |
| 17:12.56 | Dagmar | I will light a candle for you because it seems like whenever I look at a usb drive sideways after putting a bootable immage on it, it stops being bootable |
| 17:13.01 | Amarande | Dagmar: the last guild I was active in had 700+ characters, and somewhere between 300-500 people (altitis was rare, I was probably the biggest sufferer) |
| 17:13.10 | Amarande | and we still never managed to get 10 people to sign up for raids |
| 17:13.55 | Amarande | I literally went on hiatus from WoW for half a year, came back, and there still weren't enough people signed up (and keeping in mind I was DPS so it's not like I was earth crushingly crucial) |
| 17:15.17 | Dagmar | Sounds like you need some basement-dwelling underachievers on-call |
| 17:15.28 | Dagmar | Their schedules are usually amenable to raiding at all hours of the day and night |
| 17:15.44 | Dagmar | ...or maybe get some aussies |
| 17:17.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Kodiack (~Colto_000@119.224.106.229) |
| 17:18.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaylin (~Kaylin@75-172-106-133.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 17:20.40 | Amarande | or maybe I need to find a server with more serious raiding guilds and figure out how best to go about getting into one |
| 17:20.52 | Amarande | especially now that my work schedule actually *IS* amenable to raiding a normal schedule :p |
| 17:21.23 | Amarande | Used to be it was a bear for me to find raid guilds because they wanted 4-5 evenings a week back in BC and meanwhile my job hours were a lot more volatile back then |
| 17:21.47 | Amarande | Now I basically never work any later than 4:30 or so unless someone's on vacation on a given week and I have to cover their shift |
| 17:23.48 | jleclanche | Arrowmaster: i have a feeling the "highly irregular" line will become a classic. |
| 17:44.00 | TC-Work | "As a Canadian, health care is free. Hospital parking costs $7,000." heh |
| 17:45.16 | zenzelezz | sounds the same as Norway |
| 17:54.08 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@c83-250-222-76.bredband.comhem.se) |
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| 17:55.24 | Amarande | TC-Work: hah, I can imagine that happening in the US in some cities if we ever get our healthcare heads out of our asses |
| 17:55.43 | Amarande | someday, we might get universal single payer healthcare, if someone can actually manage to push it through |
| 17:56.07 | Amarande | ... then you'll have a heart attack in New York City and have a month's hospital recovery paid for |
| 17:56.15 | Amarande | ... then you'll go to get your car from the parking garage |
| 17:56.26 | Amarande | ... and probably be back in the hospital with another heart attack :) |
| 18:06.20 | Amarande | but then, that's the problem with insurance ... can we really expect insurance to cover every single part of the consequence tree of a given incident? |
| 18:06.39 | Amarande | although you do have those insurance programs for the retired you see advertised on TV where they promise to hire someone to walk your dog while you recover :S |
| 18:07.21 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@unaffiliated/kd3) |
| 18:07.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (~Daniel@c-67-160-127-180.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 18:09.28 | kd3 | whee, my pi works again |
| 18:10.56 | zenzelezz | what was wrong? |
| 18:11.47 | TC-Work | he had a blockage |
| 18:12.08 | kd3 | fsck was working on the sd card for a good minute or two, so a lot, apparently |
| 18:12.17 | Amarande | yeah, that sounds pretty bad |
| 18:12.23 | Amarande | especially since we're talking about flash storage here :| |
| 18:12.46 | Amarande | but hey, could be worse, ever accidentally power off a machine with ext2 on a spinny drive? :) |
| 18:12.54 | kd3 | meh, trying to run an os (and torrents) from an sd card is an inherently time-limited venture |
| 18:15.06 | Amarande | hm, that'd be an interesting thing to check in technological progress come to think of it. if I cared to wipe out my hard drive and restore just to try it, which I don't |
| 18:15.21 | Amarande | format 1TB drive in ext2, cut the power, see how long it takes this box to fsck |
| 18:15.24 | Dagmar | Why do you think they're referred to as "fuck checks" |
| 18:15.59 | Dagmar | What you descibe will take seconds. |
| 18:16.21 | Dagmar | If you want *real* fun, fill that drive 3/4 full of assorted mp3s, porn, and personal documents. THEN powerkill the machine. |
| 18:16.25 | karl_w_w | .:TC-Work:. "As a Canadian, health care is free. Hospital parking costs $7,000." heh <- and in Australia, health care is not free and hospital parking is non-existant |
| 18:17.26 | Amarande | yeah, that's what I mean, how long it would take to fsck a terabyte on a modern machine |
| 18:17.34 | Amarande | by 'modern' I mean this, btw |
| 18:17.39 | Amarande | ** SysInfo ** Client: HexChat 2.9.6 (x64) ** OS: Microsoft Windows 8.1 Pro ** CPU: Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E3-1240 v3 @ 3.40GHz (3.00 GHz) ** RAM: 16322 MB Total (12295 MB Free) ** VGA: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 ** Uptime: 2.88 Hours ** |
| 18:17.54 | Dagmar | Amarande: It'll be a disk-bound operation |
| 18:18.19 | Dagmar | ...and it entirely depends on how much shit it's got to carefully check over. |
| 18:18.32 | Dagmar | Even on a slow disk if hte thing is empty it'll be done in a few seconds. |
| 18:18.41 | Dagmar | On a *full* disk with lots of files... 20-40 minutes |
| 18:18.51 | karl_w_w | #reasons not to have large disks in your pc |
| 18:19.39 | Dagmar | ...or rather, it'll spend a minute or three and then say "Oh wow. Looks like your disk is fucked. Someone's going to have to boot this machine in single-user mode and fix it because fuck you I'm stopping right here." *halted* |
| 18:19.40 | Amarande | karl: yeah, they've been advertising 6TB hard drives lately and I'm like WTF you'd have to be insane |
| 18:19.48 | zenzelezz | karl_w_w: but you don't want to set up a NAS just for your porn |
| 18:20.13 | Amarande | hell, think about the backup situation for a 6TB drive |
| 18:20.21 | Amarande | about the only thing large enough to back up a 6TB drive to is another one |
| 18:20.29 | zenzelezz | I recently bought two 4TB disks, which will give me a good excuse to finally reinstall |
| 18:20.38 | Dagmar | Amarande: On the bright side is that with journaling in ext3/ext4, if things get to the point where you have to do an offline fsck check, you can probably just start by making sure your backups are recent |
| 18:25.04 | karl_w_w | it's ridiculously easy to make a ghetto nas setup zenzelezz |
| 18:25.25 | TC-Work | karl_w_w: That's because the entire country is trying to kill you. It would go bankrupt with free heath care. |
| 18:25.54 | zenzelezz | karl_w_w: I didn't say it was hard, I said you wouldn't want to |
| 18:25.55 | karl_w_w | only the right wing politicians TC-Work :P |
| 18:26.07 | Amarande | crap, router's DNS server just went on the fritz again, time to reboot router :| |
| 18:26.20 | karl_w_w | oh you were specifically talking about porn? who stores porn these days? |
| 18:26.33 | Amarande | karl: google does |
| 18:26.55 | Amarande | heh, what have I once said is a problem with Google's name |
| 18:27.21 | Amarande | Given the general impression of the Internet being a tool for pornography, centuries from now when future archaeologists and historians look back |
| 18:27.34 | Amarande | they'll think it meant "Go Ogle", rather than an altered spelling of "google" :) |
| 18:27.40 | Amarande | er, of "googol" |
| 18:28.53 | kd3 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnWHpeAdF8 |
| 18:29.14 | kd3 | wow, what a shitty copy of that amv |
| 18:29.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (Amarande@24-151-100-63.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 18:31.23 | zenzelezz | karl_w_w: you'd rather download it every time? |
| 18:32.23 | karl_w_w | no, I'd rather watch something else |
| 18:32.41 | zenzelezz | sure you would |
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| 19:10.14 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3|hate`net (~Kaydeethr@unaffiliated/kd3) |
| 19:12.13 | *** join/#wowuidev mitchnull (~mitch@BC06720F.catv.pool.telekom.hu) |
| 19:13.54 | karl_w_w | does anybody remember an old PS1 game which was similar to wipeout |
| 19:14.04 | karl_w_w | I don't remember the name, it began with a H |
| 19:17.50 | nevcairiel | Hi-Octane? |
| 19:20.56 | karl_w_w | blimey thanks nevcairiel |
| 19:21.06 | karl_w_w | how did you get that from that? :P |
| 19:21.18 | nevcairiel | do people really say blimey? |
| 19:21.38 | karl_w_w | I do occasionally |
| 19:21.47 | karl_w_w | and I think I am a person |
| 19:21.56 | nevcairiel | but also a people? |
| 19:22.07 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@c83-250-222-76.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 19:22.07 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 19:22.14 | karl_w_w | I am many things |
| 19:22.24 | karl_w_w | can you also remember a mech fighting game? |
| 19:22.27 | nevcairiel | anyway, i excercised my google-fu, it wasn't hat hard to find a list of wipeout competitors for ps1 |
| 19:22.32 | karl_w_w | ^even less to go on |
| 19:22.36 | nevcairiel | s/hat/that/ |
| 19:22.42 | nevcairiel | mech commander? :P |
| 19:23.02 | karl_w_w | nah it was first person |
| 19:23.17 | nevcairiel | or mechwarrior |
| 19:23.17 | karl_w_w | or third? maybe, I'm foggy |
| 19:23.20 | nevcairiel | that is first person |
| 19:23.39 | nevcairiel | mechwarrior 2 was on the PS1 |
| 19:24.19 | karl_w_w | hmm, don't think that was it |
| 19:24.45 | karl_w_w | ooh wikipedia has a nice list |
| 19:25.27 | nevcairiel | i never actually had a ps1 |
| 19:25.33 | nevcairiel | i didnt get any consoles after the snes |
| 19:27.05 | karl_w_w | i had a master system, snes, mega drive, ps1, ps2, for varying periods of time |
| 19:27.19 | Fisker | hey nevcairiel |
| 19:27.37 | nevcairiel | hey Fisker |
| 19:27.44 | Fisker | :) |
| 19:28.31 | karl_w_w | I had an original PS1 with all the redundant ports on the back which were removed before to long to save moneys |
| 19:28.47 | karl_w_w | should have held onto it, might be worth a penny or two |
| 19:29.15 | karl_w_w | I remember I had to turn it over to get the discs to read :D |
| 19:29.31 | jnwhiteh | anyone here us Aperture? |
| 19:30.02 | jnwhiteh | use, rather |
| 19:30.05 | Fisker | I stopped after learning of their testing practices |
| 19:30.47 | nevcairiel | man Fisker, we all had so much fun in their testing facility, what are you talking about |
| 19:31.01 | Fisker | They're killing innocent robots |
| 19:35.22 | bluspacecow | with wet fish!~ |
| 19:35.30 | bluspacecow | ~fiskerslap Random Robot |
| 19:35.31 | purl | ACTION slaps Random Robot around a bit with Fisker. |
| 19:35.33 | bluspacecow | See ? |
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| 19:57.57 | airtonix | Fisker: Hey guy, why you got to be mad? |
| 19:58.18 | airtonix | it's only a game |
| 20:00.01 | pompy | http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-04/11/malwarebytes |
| 20:03.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Venara (~Venara@95.44.83.252) |
| 20:03.28 | jnwhiteh | Shirik: what do you do with your images that aren't bad, but aren't the best of the lot |
| 20:03.34 | jnwhiteh | how much do you delete from what you shoot? |
| 20:04.22 | zenzelezz | filters! |
| 20:04.27 | zenzelezz | 50s newspaper |
| 20:07.12 | *** join/#wowuidev randon (4e6692b0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.102.146.176) |
| 20:07.44 | randon | hey folks! is there some veteran developer here? |
| 20:08.14 | nevcairiel | i dont think many of us have been to war |
| 20:08.30 | zenzelezz | many of us were in the war effort though |
| 20:08.44 | TC-Work | Hampering doesn't count zenzelezz. |
| 20:08.45 | nevcairiel | well those numbers are declining i'm sure |
| 20:08.55 | randon | it is enough for me if you battled in BWL back when it was new |
| 20:09.18 | airtonix | randon: i've seen some shit bro |
| 20:09.29 | TC-Work | pfft, I had a prot pally in vanilla. |
| 20:09.38 | airtonix | i've seen people use frameXML |
| 20:09.44 | airtonix | that shit will scar you |
| 20:09.56 | airtonix | i still wake up in cold sweats |
| 20:10.36 | randon | actually, i am trying to find someone who remembers/has some reference for wow api before TBC |
| 20:10.43 | airtonix | i'm still seeing a counseler because of SuperCoolBossMods |
| 20:10.50 | TC-Work | Might be listed somewhere |
| 20:11.28 | airtonix | oh, randon. so what you're saying is that you want help making mods for a private server... oh ok |
| 20:11.37 | airtonix | i don't think that's allowed |
| 20:11.45 | randon | i dont want help making it |
| 20:11.51 | airtonix | so you don't deny it? |
| 20:11.57 | airtonix | interesting |
| 20:12.08 | randon | lets say i want to study historical changes of the wow api |
| 20:13.35 | airtonix | i've got fapping to get back to. |
| 20:13.37 | randon | but i also fail to see what is wrong with someone attempting to program for something outdated if they can find some satisfaction in it |
| 20:13.47 | jnwhiteh | that's great =) |
| 20:13.54 | jnwhiteh | we prefer to help people who don't do that |
| 20:14.09 | jnwhiteh | it makes us happy! |
| 20:14.50 | randon | hm guess i am looking in a wrong places then |
| 20:15.38 | randon | its very curious to me that there is almost no material available for this anywhere, even if you are willing to pay for it |
| 20:15.51 | randon | well, anywhere i looked |
| 20:15.58 | airtonix | you no look hard |
| 20:16.24 | kd3 | blizz doesn't provide any documentation for the api. it's all been reverse-engineered. asking players to keep up with stuff nearly a decade out of date is a bit iffy |
| 20:16.26 | airtonix | bouncy bouncy, do you like my nipples? |
| 20:17.16 | randon | kd3 oh, didn't know that. that would explain the shittiness of the resources i managed to dig up |
| 20:18.51 | Amarande | Yeah, private servers are generally considered a bad thing |
| 20:19.17 | Amarande | I can think of only one really positive justification for private servers, and even then, Blizz regards them about as well as HK-47 regards meatbags |
| 20:19.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~Funkeh`@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 20:19.36 | randon | well, blizzard has stated very clearly multiple times |
| 20:20.09 | Amarande | namely, I have a certain level of understanding for people who would like them as a "time capsule" sort of thing, i.e., to go back to past expansion days |
| 20:20.16 | airtonix | hk? |
| 20:20.17 | randon | that they dont really consider running realms with old versions because of the relatively low popularity and lot of work with little gain |
| 20:20.40 | randon | thats the case for many people, to be honest |
| 20:20.59 | Amarande | actually, I've sometimes wished Blizzard would do just that in a way (reuse some of the dead realms as servers frozen to old expansions) but apparently it may not be technically possible |
| 20:21.23 | Mr_Rabies | probably way, way too many game-breaking exploits on the old code by now anyway |
| 20:21.34 | Mr_Rabies | and/or server-breaking exploits |
| 20:21.42 | Amarande | (as a sales matter, they could just require you have all expansions purchased in order to access the "memory lane" servers) |
| 20:21.50 | randon | if it was financially viable, they would do it imho |
| 20:22.02 | randon | its hard ot believe they dont have working versions stored somewhere |
| 20:22.17 | randon | in any case, it is something like trying to play old carmageddon |
| 20:22.22 | Mr_Rabies | they probably have working versions but they likely have exploits that can bring down the whole realm, etc on them by now |
| 20:22.33 | Mr_Rabies | and devoting resources to fixing old versions is a nightmare |
| 20:23.37 | Amarande | randon: according to #wowhead, some of the necessary older data sounds like it's been lost |
| 20:23.37 | Mr_Rabies | it's just not worth it, most people who are interested would play for like a month and quit even if all the huge bugs were fixed |
| 20:23.53 | bluspacecow | vanilla servers mean vanilla bugs |
| 20:24.03 | bluspacecow | as well as all those new features of wow you like ? *gone* |
| 20:24.23 | randon | i understand blizzard position, i also understand they cant just give green light to enthusiasts around the world to mess with their stuff, so they will never give a blessing to private realms |
| 20:25.18 | randon | but the realms are there, they provide fun to people who value nostalgia more than improved game design and new content |
| 20:25.26 | Amarande | yeah, vanilla servers probably mean phone calls from friends at 0300 asking you "can you reboot the server again? the Battle of Darrowshire just went boobs up again" LOL |
| 20:25.37 | Mr_Rabies | geez |
| 20:25.39 | Mr_Rabies | that reminds me |
| 20:25.45 | Mr_Rabies | they finally fixed darrowshire at some point |
| 20:25.50 | Mr_Rabies | then totally broke it with cata again |
| 20:25.54 | kd3 | vanilla has *not* aged well. the people who think they're nostalgic are wearing rose-tinted glasses. |
| 20:26.02 | randon | kd3 |
| 20:26.24 | randon | the thing is, there are some people who enjoy it still |
| 20:26.39 | kd3 | then they're welcome to relive it in their memories |
| 20:26.39 | nevcairiel | too bad |
| 20:26.48 | randon | greatly, to be honest. lets you relive your past pretty much |
| 20:27.02 | airtonix | do people even still play wow? |
| 20:27.11 | bluspacecow | mmmm boobies |
| 20:27.19 | randon | no, they all migrated to elder scrolls online |
| 20:27.24 | randon | ha |
| 20:27.28 | airtonix | bluspacecow: tits or gtfo |
| 20:27.42 | bluspacecow | and some people enjoy pacman and a figgin type writer |
| 20:27.53 | bluspacecow | doesn’t mean we should send typewriters to everyone |
| 20:28.03 | randon | noone is saying that |
| 20:28.06 | airtonix | i want my typewriter |
| 20:28.16 | randon | using your analogy, there are still typewriters around, and some people you them |
| 20:28.26 | randon | and they are not harming anyone, really |
| 20:28.28 | Mr_Rabies | honestly i'd prefer they implement their scaling feature to allow for flex raiding throughout wow's history without -too- much regards to balance |
| 20:28.54 | Mr_Rabies | basically just plug in their scaling formulas and play around for a bit and see if they can make it feel remotely challenging with a few raids and leave it as it is |
| 20:29.04 | nevcairiel | they did say that might be a possibility |
| 20:29.24 | randon | anyway, i wasnt saying blizzard should do vanilla realms. I was saying i udnerstand why blizz doesnt do it, and why they cant approve 3rd parties making them, but i do not understand why people should give you hard time for tying to make addons for them |
| 20:29.43 | kd3 | because most of us have contacts with blizz and we'd like to keep it that way? |
| 20:30.27 | randon | this doesnt make any sense.. are you saying that if you discussed old products of blizzard, they would stop accepting your money for subscription?:D |
| 20:30.34 | airtonix | yes |
| 20:30.39 | Mr_Rabies | lotta folks here are either important folks at major fansites and/or friends of blizzard employees |
| 20:30.39 | airtonix | that's how religion works |
| 20:30.57 | Mr_Rabies | and major fansites benefit heavily from having a good relationship with blizzard |
| 20:31.43 | randon | i get it, but do you really think developing addons for old version of their product would hinder that relationship? |
| 20:31.55 | randon | or not even developing it, discussing it |
| 20:32.52 | nevcairiel | thats not for us to decide, we just respect their wishes |
| 20:32.53 | Neffi_ | In discussing it, you're implicitly condoning the use of private servers, since that's the only way you could make use of such addons/API |
| 20:37.25 | Amarande | kd3: yeah, it seems to be Wrath of the Lich King that people seem to most wish to go back to |
| 20:37.28 | TC-Work | Official Fan Sites could have ToU/ToS stuff that us mere mortals are not aware of. |
| 20:37.49 | TC-Work | Regardless, that's the rule here. |
| 20:38.00 | Amarande | if I was going to hazard a guess, I think there's a fair number of players that miss the old talent/advancement system :S |
| 20:38.18 | nevcairiel | if they do, they are stupid |
| 20:38.30 | Amarande | and some of the old specific stuff in Azeroth like the AQ40 chain that didn't survive the transition to Cata |
| 20:38.53 | nevcairiel | I totally agree with blizzards reasons for getting rid of it. It looked like you had many nice choices, but ultimately, you did not have any |
| 20:39.48 | randon | that is nice |
| 20:40.05 | randon | but saying people who enjoy something you dont are stupid is a little bit too much |
| 20:40.06 | Mr_Rabies | people always wanna go back two expansions it seems |
| 20:40.18 | Mr_Rabies | with WoD they'll be like "remember cata" as unlikely as that sounds now |
| 20:40.39 | Amarande | Mr_Rabies: coincidence, probably |
| 20:40.54 | bluspacecow | sleepy tiems meows |
| 20:41.05 | Amarande | BC was extremely popular among hardcore gamers, it was probably the "wanna go back" for a large percentage at both Wrath *and* Cata |
| 20:41.45 | Mr_Rabies | i think each expansion is better than the last, myself |
| 20:41.51 | Amarande | "Remember cata" will probably come out of missing the pre-Mists talent system more than out of a dislike for Mists, IMO |
| 20:41.55 | Mr_Rabies | none have been perfect, but each has learned lessons from the previous |
| 20:42.20 | airtonix | it's ok, at least you can play Dayz LAWL |
| 20:42.42 | Amarande | although I'm not sure how many people will miss Mists, especially with the gimmicky cutsceney filled stuff that it has |
| 20:42.45 | randon | for some people the rate of releasing expansions is just too fast, and they dont have enough time to fully enjoy it |
| 20:42.53 | Amarande | well, actually Cata introduced that, but it feels more all-pervasive in Mists for some reason |
| 20:43.04 | Amarande | I think because the instances have been getting more cutsceney too |
| 20:43.26 | Mr_Rabies | maybe the lessons they'll learn from MoP are: people hate dailies and filler quests, and probably they shouldn't delay an expansion as long as they have, and a long public beta is a bad thing for a wow expansion |
| 20:43.37 | Amarande | which is one thing that's always bugged me about SW:TOR too ... love SW:TOR, but sometimes I wish I could just do a hack-and-slash flashpoint instead of having to sit through 40 billion conversations every time that often take longer than the instance |
| 20:43.46 | Mr_Rabies | honestly, MoP cleaned up the questing that cata introduced, i feel |
| 20:44.08 | airtonix | apparently SOE is making a proper version of Dayz without all the shitty influence of Dean Hall and Bohemia |
| 20:44.08 | nevcairiel | "cleaned up"? |
| 20:44.11 | Mr_Rabies | you feel more in control and less on-rails, but it still has all the neat fun mechanics in leveling quests that were added for Cata |
| 20:44.28 | Amarande | not that I dislike the conversations themselves, it's more the fact that sometimes you just want to do a quick group instance :S |
| 20:44.51 | Amarande | same with MoP, the story stuff is fun the first time or two but then it starts feeling like it slows things down when you just want your valor |
| 20:45.04 | nevcairiel | yeah questing has come a long way over the last two expansions |
| 20:45.16 | Mr_Rabies | i can't think of anywhere that's got a lot of time delay other than the instance with the waves of bugs |
| 20:45.18 | Mr_Rabies | and they just fixed that |
| 20:45.26 | Mr_Rabies | otherwise i clear most instances in <10-15 mins |
| 20:45.38 | Mr_Rabies | they're actually increasing instance times again for WoD |
| 20:45.42 | Mr_Rabies | which i think is a bad move |
| 20:45.45 | Amarande | and yeah, MoP was far too dailies-focused |
| 20:46.01 | Amarande | I think that hurt too, especially early on in the expansion and with all the valor gear tied to dailies too |
| 20:46.10 | Mr_Rabies | i think people genuinely like the quick romps that are around now, i think maybe 20 minutes is as long as anyone wants to spend in any given dungeon |
| 20:46.19 | Mr_Rabies | the hour-3 hour slogs like ZG were a nightmare |
| 20:46.34 | airtonix | no Mr_Rabies |
| 20:46.41 | airtonix | only you and your casuals hated it |
| 20:46.44 | nevcairiel | i dunno, i guess if you just LFD for valor, short is good |
| 20:46.45 | Amarande | previous games? guild needs a new tank? it was logical for a member wanting to volunteer to roll a tank to just do one and then level them up |
| 20:46.48 | Mr_Rabies | lol |
| 20:46.54 | airtonix | you can of course just go and play COD4 |
| 20:46.58 | nevcairiel | but if you run with a group of friends, longer is fine |
| 20:47.06 | Mr_Rabies | ZG felt like it was just wasting time |
| 20:47.08 | Amarande | and then it didn't seem to take all that long to get geared after that |
| 20:47.16 | Mr_Rabies | so as soon as i was done with it i was done with it |
| 20:47.28 | Mr_Rabies | i still at least run instances for fun now because they're quick and easy |
| 20:47.31 | Amarande | Mists? guild needs a new tank? better go start looking for recruits, because that member who wants to roll a tank? |
| 20:47.38 | Mr_Rabies | i liked the early cata dungeons, but ZG was a mess |
| 20:47.42 | Mr_Rabies | it wasn't hard, just a waste of time |
| 20:48.05 | Amarande | they'll hit 90 just as quick as always, then weeks while you waited for them to rep up to be able to get the starter tank gear (I'm talking like, pre-5.2 here) |
| 20:48.13 | Mr_Rabies | and i'm so glad wow has mostly moved from the "spend more time = do better in the game" formula and has headed more in a skill-based direction |
| 20:48.24 | randon | well, thanks for the chat guys, i didnt find what i was looking for, but at least i know not to look in the direction i wanted to |
| 20:48.25 | Amarande | i.e., early expansion where you can't just piggyback on earlier-in-the-expansion crafteds etc. to gear up fast |
| 20:48.47 | Amarande | and there was no real way at all to speed it up because everything was gated by the limited number of dailies |
| 20:49.22 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, pre 5.2 MoP was a mess as far as progression |
| 20:49.34 | Mr_Rabies | having to wait to 90 to do any dailies then exclusively doing dailies for weeks was a nightmare |
| 20:49.48 | Mr_Rabies | 100+ a day easy |
| 20:49.49 | Mr_Rabies | ughhhh |
| 20:50.07 | Mr_Rabies | but they learned their lesson and i think MoP as it stands now is the pinnacle of wow's achievement |
| 20:51.50 | Amarande | heh, then there's things like the longest quest waits in history of WoW :) |
| 20:52.13 | Amarande | you can literally have a quest pending (technically you can't accept it, but you have the quest in hand as an item) from like ... 20 and not be able to turn it in till 85 :) |
| 20:52.26 | Mr_Rabies | do what now? O_o |
| 20:52.45 | Amarande | Mr_Rabies: Be a Monk, fish up one of the rare quest fish while on your every 10 levels Zen Pilgrimage |
| 20:52.57 | airtonix | precious pixels |
| 20:52.59 | Amarande | You then essentially have a Krasarang Wilds fishing quest that you can't turn in for 60+ levels :) |
| 20:53.10 | nevcairiel | good for you |
| 20:53.14 | Mr_Rabies | oh, i'd probably just not let the item drop for lowbies if i were them |
| 20:53.20 | Mr_Rabies | but they were nice and at least let you have them |
| 20:53.27 | nevcairiel | i once found a quest starting item that started a horde quest on a n alliance character, longest quest ever |
| 20:53.38 | Amarande | yeah, it comes up because of the "fishing from pools never fails" rules :) |
| 20:53.41 | Mr_Rabies | 20-85 is a matter of hours on a monk anyway |
| 20:54.00 | Mr_Rabies | took me like 72 hours to get to 90 and i didn't even try for any kinda speed stuff |
| 20:54.19 | Amarande | and there are at least a couple of pool spawn spots you can reach from the area you're allowed to be in during the pilgrimage |
| 20:55.01 | Amarande | and usually I supplement my fishing leveling as I go by harvesting any pools I come by while questing |
| 20:55.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (~dashkal@unaffiliated/dashkal) |
| 20:56.12 | Mr_Rabies | i just did dungeons from 10-90 or so and got there in 72 hours |
| 20:56.14 | Mr_Rabies | as dps |
| 20:56.20 | Mr_Rabies | so hour+ queues at times |
| 20:56.48 | Mr_Rabies | well, 10-85, then broke up dungeons with silkworm farming on timeless isle from 85.5-90 |
| 20:57.43 | nevcairiel | personally i would rather quest twice as long then do a mindless farming task |
| 20:57.48 | Mr_Rabies | well |
| 20:57.50 | Mr_Rabies | that's the thing |
| 20:57.53 | nevcairiel | but i've always liked questing |
| 20:57.54 | Amarande | BTW, is it considered a breach of etiquette these days to LFD as a tank without heirlooms, whilst leveling? |
| 20:58.11 | Amarande | (I'm sure with DPS nobody cares, and healer nobody cares either unless people die) |
| 20:58.12 | Mr_Rabies | i'm the same way, but questing 1) takes easily 10x as long as silkworm farming if you have no competition |
| 20:58.21 | Mr_Rabies | and 2) early MoP basically killed questing for me |
| 20:58.31 | Mr_Rabies | the dailies wore me down, i don't really quest anymore |
| 20:58.51 | Mr_Rabies | TBC did the same thing and i quit the game until halfway through WotlK |
| 20:58.56 | Unkle1 | When it comes to LFD someone will ALWAYS be pissed off that you didn't maximized THEIR play experience. I just tend not to worry about it. |
| 20:59.06 | Mr_Rabies | (also the tbc attunement bullshit made it so i could never escape karazhan) |
| 20:59.27 | Unkle1 | I was leveling a BE paladin and I "tanked" in Ret Spec with a 2-Hander and LAWLED when anyone complained. |
| 20:59.36 | Mr_Rabies | honestly i tanked until about 40 on my monk in dps spec |
| 20:59.56 | Mr_Rabies | then things started hitting too hard so i started going dps |
| 21:00.46 | Amarande | Unkle1: heh, like that one death knight who bitched at me in UK because I let him die while heals |
| 21:01.10 | Amarande | fact was, I COULD have healed him just fine, but he shouldn't have been taking that damage anyway |
| 21:01.12 | Unkle1 | Easier to rez dumbasses than keep the healed. |
| 21:01.22 | Amarande | he was being an idiot and insisting on standing in the dragon fire and such |
| 21:01.42 | Amarande | heh I think he was the only one who complained in the end, and justly really |
| 21:01.57 | Amarande | not justly for him to complain, but justly that the others didn't ... only way for him to learn is to die like that |
| 21:02.15 | Amarande | and better to make him learn it now, than to let him coast to max level and be someone's (possibly my) problem in heroics :) |
| 21:02.20 | Mr_Rabies | i don't give people time to complain in dungeons |
| 21:02.23 | Mr_Rabies | i chain pull like a madman |
| 21:02.37 | Amarande | it's like when you have a trick to lose in Skat, heh |
| 21:02.57 | Amarande | you try to lose those as soon as you can generally, before the defender's partner has a chance to clear the suit and drop an ace on it |
| 21:03.01 | Mr_Rabies | the only time they have to complain is when we wipe, which i'd rather happen than safely slowly pull forever |
| 21:03.09 | Amarande | when something must be lost, you do it while the stakes are low :) |
| 21:03.43 | Mr_Rabies | i really do like the current dungeon design |
| 21:03.50 | Mr_Rabies | it's fun to just go in and roflstomp everything |
| 21:03.57 | Amarande | one thing I wish people didn't do in MMOs in general is all the skip skip skip stuff though |
| 21:04.02 | Mr_Rabies | i complained about wrath dungeons back when i came back to wrath |
| 21:04.02 | *** join/#wowuidev cogwheel1 (~Cogwheel@38.99.42.242) |
| 21:04.10 | Unkle1 | Mr_Rabies: I see dungeons in WoW like a room in D3. Pull it all, kill it fast. Collect Loot. Move on. |
| 21:04.16 | Amarande | die? not only do you get to run back, sucker |
| 21:04.24 | Mr_Rabies | but to be honest i'd rather dungeons be quick and easy so people get tired of them and raid instead |
| 21:04.35 | Amarande | but you get to have to remember all the friggin parkour everyone used at points A B C D and E to skip three mobs |
| 21:04.48 | Mr_Rabies | too many people don't raid even though they're fully capable and would have a ton of fun |
| 21:04.58 | Mr_Rabies | even though blizzard has made it insanely easy to raid |
| 21:05.00 | Amarande | although that's not just a WoW thing, people do that in SW:TOR too |
| 21:05.02 | Unkle1 | When I'm LFD tanking, I don't give the group a choice. I just pull everything. |
| 21:05.14 | Amarande | Mr_Rabies: part of that may be playerbase's fault |
| 21:05.18 | Mr_Rabies | i don't really skip mobs much in lfd anyway |
| 21:05.41 | Amarande | raid groups, at least the ones that advertise for pugs in chat, which you'd think should have lower standards |
| 21:05.47 | Mr_Rabies | if i do, and they pull, i just get threat and charge the next pack as well |
| 21:05.54 | Unkle1 | If I'm leveling in LDF each of those mobs is XP. |
| 21:05.56 | Amarande | usually seem to have this insistence that you have basically top of the top gear in order to do basics |
| 21:06.12 | karl_w_w | http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/04/report-google-to-end-forced-g-integration-drastically-cut-division-resources/ party on the fuckin streets |
| 21:06.13 | Amarande | it seems to be mostly a wow thing, because I don't see the same gear-ism in TOR |
| 21:06.20 | karl_w_w | break out the sparkling piss |
| 21:06.35 | Mr_Rabies | karl_w_w: hopefully they'll remove it from youtube, i'm still holding out |
| 21:06.42 | Mr_Rabies | i just turned off all comments on my videos since i can't comment back |
| 21:07.03 | Amarande | OTOH, that's not always a good thing, e.g. in LOTRO I see people basically not care about gear at all |
| 21:07.15 | Amarande | which probably explains why I always got my damn ass kicked almost every time I tried to do a 6-man there :| |
| 21:07.16 | Mr_Rabies | maybe google will pull their company out of the tailspin it's been in since their IPO |
| 21:07.24 | Mr_Rabies | i doubt it |
| 21:07.31 | Mr_Rabies | the bubble's bursting soon |
| 21:07.40 | Mr_Rabies | but we can hope |
| 21:07.58 | Amarande | oh, boohoo, tech companies will lose some of their fake casino dollars :S |
| 21:08.12 | Amarande | that might be a good thing even, it'll mean Facebook can't just go randomly buying X, Y, and Z with inflated stock |
| 21:08.13 | airtonix | Amarande: i just farted |
| 21:11.13 | Amarande | but yeah, like I was saying elsewhere before, the thing about these bubbles is that the economy has got so disjointed it's practically not even a matter of money inequality anymore, it's that there's practically two separate sorts of money altogether |
| 21:11.46 | Amarande | there's money that lives in the real world, that actually goes to buy actual concrete tangible goods |
| 21:12.03 | karl_w_w | i'm still not going to use it, but I do hope facebook stays successful now |
| 21:12.12 | Amarande | then there's la-la land imaginary worth whatever they can convince some sod it's worth casino bucks that are used in the big trades |
| 21:12.24 | karl_w_w | they have my precious oculus rift |
| 21:12.30 | Amarande | you notice of course that almost all of these super huge business deals are done in stock and not in actual money :P |
| 21:13.36 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~nevin@c-174-63-97-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 21:13.36 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 21:14.20 | airtonix | the spice must flow |
| 21:16.50 | Unkle1 | He who controls the Spice, controls the universe! |
| 21:17.54 | Amarande | I guess the universe really must be controlled from the world of the afterlife like religion claims, then |
| 21:18.13 | Amarande | given how it seems like mostly controlling the Spice seems to be a quick way to die (generally at the hands of other factions who want it) |
| 21:19.06 | Amarande | blah. coming back here is making me think of coming back to wow, and I was going to wait till the xpack :S |
| 21:19.31 | nevcairiel | should stay away from here then, its better for you! |
| 21:19.54 | nevcairiel | now is the worst time to come back to wow |
| 21:19.59 | nevcairiel | endless month of no new content |
| 21:20.51 | Amarande | let's see ... current TOR sub goes through early June, at which point it's do I stick with TOR, try FF14 finally, or go back to WoW or LOTRO :) |
| 21:21.18 | Amarande | I suppose I could try ESO but I've heard it's not as great as was anticipated :( |
| 21:23.09 | Dagmar | The lack of gushing and glowing reviews should be considered an authoritative tell-tale there |
| 21:23.27 | Dagmar | It's "mostly adequate". |
| 21:25.09 | Dagmar | ...and I begin to really wonder what's the deal with WoW being almost the _only_ game that seems to understand your characters locomotion is actually tied to the ground. |
| 21:25.47 | Neffi | what? |
| 21:26.37 | nevcairiel | it always looks kinda weird if youi're sliding through the world all the time |
| 21:27.15 | Amarande | Dagmar: huh? most MMOs I've played look like you're actually walking |
| 21:27.24 | airtonix | hey Amarande. |
| 21:27.38 | Amarande | unless you mean the epidemic of rampstair syndrome that occurs throughout the world of RPGdom |
| 21:27.42 | airtonix | do you like naked viking quests? |
| 21:27.53 | karl_w_w | http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/boy-money-raised-ps4-buy-smoke-detectors-article-1.1763469 that's just mind blowing |
| 21:28.47 | Amarande | airtonix, that's kind of random |
| 21:28.55 | Amarande | that's even more random than some of the random stuff I've been known to say |
| 21:28.55 | Dagmar | Rampstair and moonwalking and glidestep |
| 21:28.58 | airtonix | that's what ESO is Amarande |
| 21:29.03 | Dagmar | Not to mention the instantaneous turns |
| 21:29.07 | Dagmar | They piss me off the most |
| 21:29.30 | Amarande | Rampstair I see fairly often, though that might have technical reasons behind it |
| 21:29.49 | Dagmar | When the motion of the character is both exempt from physics and not in sync with their relation to the ground, it just pisses me off |
| 21:29.56 | Amarande | I'm not sure how non-trivial it is to code stairs in a 3D engine so that you don't get rampstair AND you don't have to treat every step as a jump |
| 21:30.02 | airtonix | rampstair... is that a technical term? |
| 21:30.13 | Amarande | airtonix: I'm not sure it has one |
| 21:30.25 | Dagmar | It's considerably more complex to do stairs than it is to walk up a ramp because it's basically a dozen little curbs to step up |
| 21:30.28 | Amarande | we're referring though to the common phenomenon where stairs are actually walkmeshed as diagonal ramps |
| 21:30.42 | airtonix | minecraft seems to do ok |
| 21:30.42 | Dagmar | I don't blame them much for rampstair |
| 21:31.02 | Dagmar | The glidestep and impossible turns on the other hand... highly immersion breaking |
| 21:31.12 | Amarande | as for gliding around ... that seems to mostly occur due to lag or client glitch |
| 21:31.14 | Jamash | this Watchdogs trailer says it has "Groundbreaking Mulitplayer" |
| 21:31.19 | Dagmar | MC does okay because you spend all your time in first person |
| 21:31.36 | Amarande | and I'm not sure what you mean by moonwalking in this sense |
| 21:31.42 | Dagmar | Jamash: IIRC it means your friends will be able to do mission-y things on their tablets/phones while you play |
| 21:31.59 | airtonix | Amarande: oh you weren't around for micheal jackson? |
| 21:32.01 | Dagmar | Amarande: When the legs moving does not match the speed at which the player is traveling over the ground |
| 21:32.22 | Amarande | but yeah, usually when I see my character start to glide around instead of taking steps, it usually means something glitched out in the client's rendering and I need to log out to fix it |
| 21:32.33 | Jamash | Dagmar: Read the words realllllllllllly closely |
| 21:32.51 | Dagmar | Ohhhh Mullet players! |
| 21:32.53 | airtonix | fake trailer |
| 21:32.54 | Amarande | airtonix: I've heard of it with Michael Jackson, but I'm trying to envision a graphics glitch being described so |
| 21:33.37 | Amarande | Dagmar: that sounds like a consequence of people wanting faster movement speed, then |
| 21:33.49 | Dagmar | Amarande: Seen some of the cheaper asian MMO/FPS games? Like, the ones where when you turn, they knew your character should bank a little, but instead they just pivot the toon in the middle |
| 21:33.55 | Amarande | the alternative I suppose is that you wouldn't be able to have super fast movement without animating character legs so fast that they turn into a ridiculous looking blur |
| 21:34.16 | Dagmar | WHen you personally turn while running, your feet still describe where you're going, but you lean inwards on the turn from there |
| 21:34.22 | Amarande | which basically means everyone would have to start wearing jedi robe/skirt type armour in order to conceal the insanity :P |
| 21:34.36 | Jamash | Dagmar: I once tested a motorcycle game that had leaning when turning |
| 21:34.36 | Dagmar | When coders are lazy, your feet travel _outwards_ from the turn and your head travels inwards on the turn |
| 21:34.57 | Jamash | Dagmar: but when backing up the characters would lean the wrong way |
| 21:35.00 | Amarande | ah, yeah haven't played the cheaper stuff |
| 21:35.03 | Dagmar | Amarande: You know how you run faster in real life? |
| 21:35.08 | Amarande | except Shin Megami Tensei online and I'm not sure if it's the case there |
| 21:35.09 | Dagmar | You take _longer steps_ |
| 21:35.11 | karl_w_w | .:Dagmar:. Jamash: IIRC it means your friends will be able to do mission-y things on their tablets/phones while you play <- missionary things? wha- oh. |
| 21:35.21 | nevcairiel | Dagmar: or speed up your leg shuffling |
| 21:35.29 | Dagmar | When I was in my 20's I could do 22-24mph on foot |
| 21:35.31 | Jamash | leaning out of a turn looks really, really terrible |
| 21:35.37 | Amarande | I can imagine it being the case in cheaper games, though |
| 21:35.39 | Dagmar | It involves _bounding_ |
| 21:35.41 | karl_w_w | I'm still doing my best not to get excited about watch dogs, I'm still expecting to be let down |
| 21:35.46 | Amarande | since it seems like most of these are cheapouts for having to actually invest in more 3D modeling |
| 21:35.58 | Amarande | and graphics modeling is generally pain in the ass expensive as it is |
| 21:36.01 | Jamash | contextual animation involves a lot of work |
| 21:36.06 | Dagmar | You can't take reasonable length strides and just speed them up. It doesn't work. Your legs *will* wear out |
| 21:36.11 | Amarande | hell, it's one of the primary reasons for most of the other woes gaming is perceived to suffer from, I'm sure |
| 21:36.31 | Jamash | making sure transitions are smooth, making sure the contextual animations only play in the correct context |
| 21:36.40 | Dagmar | ...but you can lean forward like you're planning on taking a chinful of street and kick off with your legs as hard as you can and go crazy fast with 10 yard strides |
| 21:36.57 | Amarande | people complain about not enough content, shallow design decisions &c by the droves ... and why? I'm sure a lot of it is because a lot of devs DO cut corners on other stuff because they need to afford the graphics budget |
| 21:37.14 | Dagmar | I blame fatness |
| 21:37.39 | Jamash | I've seen awesome things like a character that's supposed to adjust their posture so both of their feet are actually on the surface they're standing on go real bad when either they or the surface moves |
| 21:37.41 | Dagmar | When you have to subcontract an athelete and put a mocap suit on them just to figure out how people run... maybe it's time to spend less time in front of a computer |
| 21:37.50 | Amarande | and it pretty much is the case alas ... hell how many full-world RPGs do you see any more for instance? |
| 21:37.56 | Jamash | so they have their foot stretched up over their head |
| 21:38.26 | Jamash | Amarande: what does full-world mean? |
| 21:38.29 | Dagmar | that sounds painful |
| 21:38.38 | Jamash | Dagmar: It looks like it would be |
| 21:38.41 | Amarande | Jamash: where the player was ultimately allowed free rein exploration of the entire game continent/world |
| 21:38.49 | Jamash | Amarande: oh like skyrim |
| 21:38.50 | Amarande | such as the first nine FF's, the first three Wild Arms games, &c. |
| 21:38.52 | nevcairiel | thats called open-world |
| 21:39.42 | Amarande | it pretty much abruptly disappeared once detailed 3D graphics became an expectation, it seems |
| 21:40.00 | Amarande | except for Elder Scrolls, and well ... I'm not sure how big an exception ES is |
| 21:40.09 | Jamash | Amarande: I dunno, skyrim, fallout... fallout new vegas... uh... |
| 21:40.12 | Amarande | Vvardenfell for instance was made to *seem* huge but it was really quite tiny |
| 21:40.15 | nevcairiel | well kinda understandibly, detailed graphics take *a lot* of resources |
| 21:40.26 | Dagmar | Gods yes |
| 21:40.34 | Dagmar | Landmark seems to have overshot things a bit |
| 21:40.36 | Jamash | which is why everyone ends up with the same face and voice actor |
| 21:40.43 | Jamash | gotta cut corners somewhere |
| 21:40.46 | Amarande | nevcairiel: but yeah, that's what I mean, since 3D graphics became the norm, there's been an ever increasing tendency to cut back content in order to put more budget into graphics |
| 21:41.07 | nevcairiel | if you have to model a whole w orld t hat 99% of the players wont even bother to explore .. better allocate resources elsewhere |
| 21:41.19 | Dagmar | The only way to get the landscape to not engage in bizarre and heavy-duty transformations as you travel is to crank the settings way up and you'd _better_ have 16Gb of RAM |
| 21:41.42 | Jamash | Amarande: when people stop losing their goddamn minds over minor differences in texture resolution and framerate, publishers will stop obsessing over graphics |
| 21:41.46 | nevcairiel | most engines use LOD scaling that looks kinda weird during travels |
| 21:41.50 | Jamash | ie, never |
| 21:41.55 | Amarande | Dagmar: and I'm not meaning "figure out how people run", I'm meaning the extra graphics effort it takes to add, draw, debug etc. an additional animation |
| 21:42.00 | Amarande | (possibly times many base models) |
| 21:42.01 | Dagmar | Voxels the size of one's hand are possibly a bit too numerous for current computers |
| 21:42.17 | Jamash | The wow dev blogs for the new player models are very illuminating on the amount of work involved |
| 21:42.24 | Dagmar | Amarande: If the missing/malformed details were small it wouldn't be a problem |
| 21:42.26 | Amarande | Jamash: it's usually more "when the marketing department stops demanding increasingly photorealistic screenshots for the ad copy" |
| 21:42.30 | nevcairiel | speaking of, where is the next art post |
| 21:42.34 | Amarande | *that's* what'll never happen |
| 21:42.49 | Jamash | Amarande: But why does marketing want those? Because the public responds to them. Blame the public. |
| 21:42.52 | Amarande | plenty of players can do without the latest graphics ... retro players, pretty much anyone on handhelds, etc. |
| 21:42.57 | Dagmar | Amarande: ...but when, for example, a model moves it's legs at only two speeds... walking, and running... no matter how fast they're actually traveling, it's just lazy |
| 21:43.26 | Jamash | Dagmar: You say lazy, devs say efficient allocation of resources, po-tay-to, po-tah-to |
| 21:43.35 | Dagmar | ...or when every cycle of the animation loop starts from the same position... yech |
| 21:43.50 | Amarande | Dagmar: wait, you don't have 16GB of RAM in your gaming box? |
| 21:43.57 | Dagmar | It's not _that_ hard to adjust the speed at which the character goes through it's frames |
| 21:44.03 | Dagmar | Amarande: Yes |
| 21:44.22 | Jamash | Dagmar: Oh, you mean framerate, not actual distinct animation, I see. Yeah, you're right about that. |
| 21:44.24 | Dagmar | Amarande: My gaming box is more CPU heavy than it needs to be and Landmark is still iffy |
| 21:44.49 | Dagmar | Jamash: No, I don't mean like framerates on the video card. I mean like the four basic animation positions to get a rudimentary cartoon walk |
| 21:45.03 | Jamash | Dagmar: Yes, that's what I meant. |
| 21:45.13 | Amarande | I pretty much indicate 16GB as a minimum for gaming nowadays anyway |
| 21:45.20 | Dagmar | The character should cycle between them at a rate that at least matches the rate they're traveling over the ground, so it looks like the feet actually touch something solid rather than sliding/gliding |
| 21:45.30 | Jamash | Dagmar: Yes. |
| 21:46.52 | alestane | In otherwords, that animations should be time-bound and interpolated, rather than incremental and showing every frame regardless of time. |
| 21:47.08 | Dagmar | Well, I could give two shits if they're interpolated properly |
| 21:47.17 | Dagmar | If they still just have four frames it's fine |
| 21:47.27 | Dagmar | ...but they've got to move in sync with the passage of the ground under the toon |
| 21:48.37 | Amarande | I learned my lesson about 16GB when I tried to play LOTRO with 8GB |
| 21:48.43 | Amarande | And that's a 32-bit game, at that. |
| 21:48.46 | Jamash | I have 4gb |
| 21:48.56 | Dagmar | I'm not sure what you were doing wrong there |
| 21:48.59 | alestane | So, length of stride synchronized with land speed. |
| 21:49.10 | Dagmar | ...but Landmark is about as bad as the typical Elder Scrolls game |
| 21:49.33 | Dagmar | They release, and nothing someone spending their own money on has enough power to run it at fullspeed |
| 21:49.35 | Amarande | Let's see ... between Win8.1, a web browser with several tabs (which playing an MMO you probably WILL have), IRC client, occasionally my chess program (even with the engine currently switched off, though) |
| 21:49.39 | Amarande | I'd have basically 3GB used already |
| 21:49.54 | Dagmar | So... view distance of WoW maxed out, but made of voxels the size of your hand. |
| 21:49.58 | Amarande | Apparently LOTRO can gobble up up to 4GB, since when I was playing it I would notice RAM (when I had 8GB) drop to 1GB or less free |
| 21:50.13 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@2601:a:f00:465:3867:b35:3f4a:7dd3) |
| 21:50.13 | Dagmar | People scream about Minecraft's voxels eating up ram have no idea |
| 21:50.13 | Amarande | (and I mean RAM usage in terms of the green bar in resource monitor, the "real" usage) |
| 21:50.18 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 21:50.21 | Jamash | Amarande: Win8.1 = doing it wrong |
| 21:50.29 | Dagmar | Jamash++ |
| 21:50.34 | Dagmar | Sadly |
| 21:50.48 | Dagmar | 8.x has some issues |
| 21:52.37 | Amarande | but yeah, 8GB, swap thrashed like a mofo, 16GB, worked just fine |
| 21:52.50 | Amarande | well, apart from the fact that now LOTRO crashes after a few hours of solid play due to ungraceful coding heh |
| 21:53.11 | Amarande | never seen that with TOR or with WoW, but happens without fail in Middle Earth |
| 21:54.40 | Amarande | (Apparently, from what I hear, it's that the game caches so aggressively as to basically hold in memory practically everything that's been loaded that session, and it doesn't think to check when it's running out of address space so eventually it just hits the max and wipes out) |
| 21:55.17 | TC-Work | I enjoy my windows 8 |
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| 22:15.00 | g0urra | great, my mouse's scroll wheel broke |
| 22:15.40 | TC-Work | I'll alert the media. |
| 22:18.36 | Neffi | what game is this from? https://i.imgur.com/8TWxtZX.jpg |
| 22:20.14 | Amarande | Neffi: I want to say Dragon Age but I'm not sure |
| 22:20.42 | Amarande | the locale, graphics style, and character "vibe" all look like some sort of DA game to me |
| 22:20.45 | Amarande | but yeah, not quite sure |
| 22:21.41 | Neffi | didnt think to do a reverse img search before asking. it's some game called "trine 2" |
| 22:23.28 | Neffi | looks like a fun game tho |
| 22:24.10 | Amarande | trine? |
| 22:24.18 | Amarande | every time I see that name I think of that enemy skill from FF7 |
| 22:25.03 | Amarande | heh, the odd thing is that Trine isn't even that special of a skill |
| 22:25.29 | Amarande | it's only particularly well remembered because it's one of the only two that can be missed :P |
| 22:33.45 | TC-Work | Subjective |
| 22:34.13 | TC-Work | Just make sure to play with friends and be the wizard so you can kill and annoy everyone else. |
| 22:36.41 | phelps | Trine is a overyhyped "indie" game |
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| 22:48.27 | Amarande | heh, isn't the general rule about multiplayer gaming in general that you should play with friends and avoid general public games as much as possible? |
| 22:48.45 | Amarande | also, in general, I may be using the word "general" too generally much |
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| 22:56.37 | jleclanche | kd3: ping |
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