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| 00:27.08 | Neffi | Do the players/streamers make money via twitch.tv? |
| 00:27.20 | Gethe | some do |
| 00:27.30 | kd3|hate`net | yes, like youtube, if they're partnered, they get a cut of the ads |
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| 00:37.41 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
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| 00:52.09 | Neffi | you die so gracefully |
| 00:52.13 | Neffi | like a chicken without its head |
| 00:53.11 | Semlar | :l |
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| 00:58.04 | Semlar | neffi that was a very depressing wipe |
| 00:58.23 | Neffi | sorry |
| 00:58.27 | Neffi | gives Semlar a cookie. |
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| 00:59.57 | Semlar | is this poisoned? |
| 01:00.04 | Neffi | ...maybe |
| 01:00.20 | Semlar | you just want to see my death animation! |
| 01:00.33 | Neffi | guilty |
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| 01:04.21 | Neffi | wtf. you can milk cows in skyrim |
| 01:35.03 | Dashkal | Re milking cows: Seriously? Not something I had tried. What actually happens? |
| 01:36.07 | Thunder_Child | One would assume you gt milk |
| 01:43.26 | Thunder_Child | get* |
| 01:51.53 | Neffi | Dashkal: My cow had a talk dialog, so I pressed it and my character walked behind, milked it, and I got a Jug of Milk |
| 01:52.43 | Neffi | The cow was added by Elysium Estate so I dont know if the talk/milk dialog is default in Skyrim. I've never seen it happen when I talk to cows, but it probably only works on your own cow. |
| 01:54.50 | Dashkal | mmm |
| 01:54.58 | Neffi | Ah, the wiki makes no mention of milking on the cow or Jug of Milk pages, so I guess it was added by the house mod |
| 01:55.48 | Sintacks | wow crashed... and prat settings were partly gone |
| 01:56.18 | Neffi | Did it crash during a reload or logout? Because that's when the settings are written out |
| 01:56.31 | Sintacks | no |
| 01:56.34 | Neffi | strange |
| 01:56.53 | Sintacks | the scroll back still existed from before the last time i logged out |
| 01:57.00 | Neffi | "partly gone" is even more strange. I'd imagine they would be totally gone |
| 01:57.07 | Sintacks | ueah |
| 01:57.09 | Sintacks | that's why it was weird |
| 01:57.18 | Sintacks | font sizes weren't restored and exitbox placement wasn't |
| 01:57.27 | Sintacks | nor were button states |
| 01:57.28 | Neffi | Yeah, maybe the global vars were canned but the player-specific vars were corrupted |
| 01:57.49 | Sintacks | could be it actually |
| 01:57.52 | Neffi | were not corrupted* |
| 01:58.01 | Sintacks | i restored my most recent backup for global and it fixed what was broken |
| 01:58.27 | Neffi | I've never seen saved vars get corrupted from a random crash before, because the client *should* only write them out when the UI unloads |
| 01:58.40 | Sintacks | yeah |
| 01:59.05 | Sintacks | heh. it might not have been a crash and it was just a DC, and felt like a crash from trying to save vars cuz lol too many addons |
| 01:59.19 | Sintacks | and i killed wow cuz it felt like the normal lockup/crash that i get |
| 01:59.48 | Neffi | Possibly. It could've been unloading back to the login screen and just locked up in the process |
| 02:00.16 | Neffi | If you're getting normal lockups, you should look into that. You may have damaged data files or bad drivers or something |
| 02:03.49 | Sintacks | i have looked into it |
| 02:03.51 | Sintacks | posted on forums |
| 02:03.53 | Sintacks | other people have it |
| 02:03.55 | Sintacks | it's not addon related |
| 02:04.03 | Sintacks | it "fixed" for a while after a complete reinstall of WoW |
| 02:04.07 | Sintacks | but started again within a month of that |
| 02:05.20 | Sintacks | my GM has it happen too |
| 02:06.02 | Neffi | That is strange. I can't say I've had WoW crash or lock up in as long as I can remember |
| 02:12.09 | Sintacks | that's the most annoying thing |
| 02:12.12 | Sintacks | it's not a crash, so there's no log |
| 02:12.13 | Sintacks | or anything |
| 02:12.18 | Sintacks | to figure out what is causing it |
| 02:12.24 | Sintacks | and it's seamingly random |
| 02:14.36 | Neffi | Sure there are no infinite loops in your addons? |
| 02:14.55 | Neffi | I mean, I have had lockups happen, but I didnt mention it because they were all the fault of my own code |
| 02:15.23 | Neffi | It was such a rare condition that caused an infinite loop, it took me forever to find it |
| 02:15.38 | Sintacks | i've had it happen with zero addons |
| 02:19.40 | Sintacks | hmm. either the datacenter IP is now not replying to pings, or i'm having connection issues to my server's data center |
| 02:20.07 | kd3|hate`net | to a blizz dc? they filter icmp frames at the border. a traceroute's as good as you can get |
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| 02:24.47 | Sintacks | they have an IP that's not hidden to do a trace to, and it replies to pings |
| 02:24.53 | Sintacks | so i waws pining it last night when i was having issues |
| 02:25.00 | Sintacks | but just looked a min ago and it wasn't replying |
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| 02:50.51 | Neffi | What do you guys think about the Tegra K1? |
| 02:52.01 | Neffi | NVidia was a little disingenuous calling it a 192 core SoC, but it does look interesting http://anandtech.com/show/7622/nvidia-tegra-k1 |
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| 04:54.39 | airtonix | Neffi: it's a mobile thing |
| 04:55.33 | airtonix | 192 cuda cores, how is that misleading? |
| 04:56.24 | Neffi | Maybe it wasn't NVidia that did it, but it's been reported as a "192 core SoC" |
| 04:56.42 | Neffi | That's misleading to people that don't know the distinction. "wow my desktop only has 4 cores!" |
| 05:03.58 | g0urra | http://imgur.com/DOAmBVB |
| 05:05.08 | Trela | g0urra: Nice. |
| 05:05.17 | g0urra | I invented a time machine. |
| 05:08.35 | nevcairiel | Neffi: at least the anandtech article you posted doesnt have that kind of misleading info :p |
| 05:08.47 | nevcairiel | its pretty obvious its 4+1 cpu cores and 192 gpu cores |
| 05:09.41 | Arrowmaster | well this will be interesting, i plugged in my ouya and it started auto updating, ive got it rooted and the google apps installed so i wonder if it will work after the upgrade |
| 05:10.10 | Neffi | I've never seen bad info on AnandTech. It's a really great site. |
| 05:11.08 | Neffi | Any Quassel Windows users experiencing issues with notifications intemittently not notifying you anymore (via flashing the taskbar icon)? |
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| 05:13.08 | Neffi | Semlar: what font is your nameplates using? |
| 05:14.05 | Neffi | I'm gonna plug your style into my existing nameplate code that I'm refactoring right now. I really don't need the features you're doing like buff display (yet), so this'll work. |
| 05:18.46 | Neffi | I already credited you in my code but I won't release my code with your design in it |
| 05:25.50 | Arrowmaster | ah damn, ouya doesnt have the needed software to act as a wifi access point on its own |
| 05:35.28 | Semlar | neffi the font's in infinity plates |
| 05:35.37 | Semlar | it's called infinity gear |
| 05:41.54 | airtonix | hey neffi, my tablet has 16 cores |
| 05:42.07 | Neffi | >_> |
| 05:42.15 | Neffi | ty Semlar =) |
| 05:42.55 | Arrowmaster | i think mine has 20 cores |
| 05:43.16 | airtonix | did i say 20, i meant eleventy hundred |
| 05:47.01 | Iriel | wonders what the comparable AMD number is against a "CUDA Core" |
| 05:48.45 | Neffi | That's varied a lot between generations. Historically NV has gone for fewer but stronger cores |
| 05:52.57 | nevcairiel | comparing these core numbers betweeb manufacturer doesnt work |
| 05:53.32 | nevcairiel | heck that even kinda stopped working with cpus with AMDs terrible new design |
| 05:53.48 | Amarande | yeah, I'm not even sure if this is a six or a three core CPU heh |
| 05:53.58 | Amarande | because AMD's definition of "cores" is so fuzzy |
| 05:55.04 | Neffi | Yeah, I'm unclear on whether an AMD "core" means a package of 2 ALUs + 1 FPU, or if they're counting the each ALU as a core |
| 05:55.46 | nevcairiel | in their marketing they pick the higher number |
| 05:55.50 | nevcairiel | so every ALU |
| 05:56.07 | Neffi | So I guess they stopped making tri-cores? |
| 05:57.21 | airtonix | no one cares about amd stuff except windows people |
| 05:57.32 | airtonix | and cheapskates |
| 05:57.43 | Iriel | And Mac Owners |
| 05:57.52 | airtonix | they go with cheapskates |
| 05:58.27 | Iriel | riiiight |
| 05:58.57 | nevcairiel | macs use amd? since when? |
| 05:59.13 | airtonix | since a long time now |
| 05:59.15 | Iriel | GPU's |
| 05:59.20 | airtonix | the gpus are all ati |
| 05:59.36 | Iriel | http://www.amd.com/us/press-releases/Pages/new-amd-firepro-2013dec23.aspx |
| 05:59.38 | Iriel | etc |
| 06:00.11 | nevcairiel | werent we talking about CPUs just now |
| 06:00.18 | airtonix | no |
| 06:01.09 | airtonix | from now on, you can't have a discussion about cpus without talking about gpus |
| 06:01.31 | airtonix | taps his gavel |
| 06:01.42 | nevcairiel | only if you actually use the built-in GPU |
| 06:01.51 | airtonix | gavel was tapped |
| 06:01.55 | airtonix | too late |
| 06:12.24 | Neffi | Is there a constant table of reaction coloring? |
| 06:13.20 | Amarande | yeah, how many of us actually use the onboard GPU |
| 06:13.43 | Amarande | from what I understand, even the Intel HD 4600 is only just "halfway-okay" when it comes to gaming |
| 06:14.02 | Amarande | whereas meanwhile the AMD's, especially the Kaveris, have actually quite nice gaming graphics, but then the quality of the CPU half spoils it |
| 06:14.22 | Neffi | I use the onchip Intel GPU >_> |
| 06:15.15 | nevcairiel | me too. to run secondary screens |
| 06:15.28 | nevcairiel | main gaming screen on nvidia card though |
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| 06:34.17 | Neffi | http://imgur.com/gallery/KKH7E1s my god |
| 06:34.26 | karl_w_w | yes Neffi? |
| 06:34.47 | Sintacks | so, that tooltip background changing colors |
| 06:34.48 | Sintacks | http://i.imgur.com/5Jv5Gbc.png |
| 06:34.50 | Sintacks | there's another color |
| 06:35.01 | Neffi | ~lart karl_w_w |
| 06:35.01 | purl | teaches karl_w_w that M$ Access is a database. No, really, a database. A real live multi-user... well, ok, not multi-user, but a database. Yeah, that sounds right. |
| 06:35.02 | Sintacks | it changed to three different colors on that one |
| 06:35.03 | Sintacks | that i know of |
| 06:35.38 | nevcairiel | neffi: the point is that the cup is full once you added water? :p |
| 06:42.34 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:44.27 | Neffi | I feel bad for corgi |
| 06:44.28 | Neffi | s |
| 06:45.21 | Neffi | So Semlar I realized when I'm doing casual PvP I like to know how much health units have left. So I'm not gonna use your exactly design. |
| 06:50.12 | Semlar | too many numbers neffi |
| 06:50.27 | Neffi | Abbreviated w/ k, M, B, etc |
| 06:50.31 | Neffi | Smaller text too |
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| 07:27.02 | Semlar | neffiiiiii |
| 07:29.50 | Neffi | semlar |
| 07:29.59 | Semlar | sup |
| 07:30.14 | Neffi | making my UI |
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| 07:34.52 | Neffi | Semlar: I dont think the scale is working |
| 07:35.00 | Semlar | why not |
| 07:35.21 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shadowed] by ChanServ |
| 07:35.44 | Neffi | It doesnt look like the clickable area is changing? |
| 07:36.15 | Semlar | why not |
| 07:37.12 | Semlar | the clickable area is the first child of the plate so put a texture over it so you can visualize it |
| 07:37.15 | Neffi | The clickable region is the overlay, not the base frame? |
| 07:37.23 | Semlar | no |
| 07:37.29 | Neffi | Oh, I see |
| 07:37.30 | Semlar | it's the bargroup |
| 07:37.42 | Semlar | the entire plate is anchored to its first child |
| 07:37.45 | Neffi | I refactored your code and it seems I did it wrong |
| 07:38.02 | Semlar | that's what you get for trying to improve on a good thing |
| 07:38.17 | Semlar | perfection* |
| 07:39.30 | Semlar | also if you scale it you have to do an extra step to force the nameplates to update their positions |
| 07:39.41 | Semlar | but that's a separate issue |
| 07:39.59 | Stanzilla | good job Neffi |
| 07:41.07 | Neffi | :( |
| 07:43.06 | Neffi | I wanted to cut out the superfluous pairs() call. And also make it fit in 80 columns. http://pastebin.com/5emThrjL |
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| 08:08.01 | Semlar | i'm not sure for i = 1, #tbl is any faster than pairs |
| 08:08.40 | pelf | oh boy, don't tell Phanx that :) |
| 08:09.23 | Semlar | well you have to do a call to get the length of the table and then manually assign each item in the list to a variable |
| 08:10.12 | Neffi | It's so small it doesnt matter |
| 08:10.35 | Neffi | Semlar: is there any easy way to tell if the nameplate belong to a friendly player? |
| 08:10.48 | Semlar | the color of the status bar |
| 08:11.06 | Semlar | is blue |
| 08:11.13 | pelf | tidyplates derives almost everything from attributes of the blizz nameplate frames |
| 08:11.34 | Semlar | all of the reactions are there in infinity plates |
| 08:11.37 | Neffi | Isn't the color of the hpbar based on their pvp flag? |
| 08:11.42 | Semlar | no |
| 08:12.52 | Semlar | if r+g == 0 then it's probably a friendly player |
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| 08:14.10 | Semlar | anyway you can store the previous number of world children to avoid the for loop |
| 08:15.25 | Neffi | your memory is bad Semlar |
| 08:16.09 | Semlar | no neffi |
| 08:16.21 | Neffi | What if an addon removed a child from the world frame? |
| 08:16.29 | Semlar | then the numbers wouldn't match |
| 08:16.38 | Semlar | and you can execute the for loop |
| 08:16.51 | Semlar | you were doing something different |
| 08:17.04 | Semlar | like storing the max number and using that as a starting point |
| 08:17.08 | Shadowed | If your goal is to simplify the nameplates calls, there's a much simpler way of doing it. |
| 08:17.12 | Shadowed | Check the # of children and cache that |
| 08:17.13 | Neffi | I see what you mean, Semlar |
| 08:17.28 | Shadowed | oh god wtf is that |
| 08:17.34 | Semlar | we're doing it from the restricted environment and GetNumChildren isn't available |
| 08:18.22 | Semlar | but you can avoid creating a new table every time if you want to wipe and refill it |
| 08:18.50 | Semlar | i'm sure it's substantially slower than creating a new table and garbage |
| 08:19.05 | Neffi | substantially? i dunno |
| 08:20.45 | Shadowed | The cost of a table is pretty marginal on something like mouseover. |
| 08:20.46 | Semlar | https://github.com/tekkub/wow-ui-source/blob/live/FrameXML/RestrictedFrames.lua#L223 |
| 08:21.13 | Shadowed | The cost of iterating over the children and doing a find on each followed by recalling SetHeight/SetWidth etc is far more expensive |
| 08:21.17 | Shadowed | than trying to optimize the table |
| 08:21.52 | Shadowed | Especially because any sort of frame call in the restricted env is more costly than normal |
| 08:22.02 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:22.03 | Neffi | #yolo |
| 08:22.30 | Shadowed | You're optimizing the wrong use case anyway |
| 08:22.31 | Semlar | i have no idea if you can create functions or variables outside of the call for your restricted environment |
| 08:22.42 | pelf | i hope i'm looking through addon code one day and see some absurdly inefficient data structure commented with -- yolo |
| 08:22.47 | pelf | that would be fantastic |
| 08:22.59 | Shadowed | Most nameplates are going to get created outside of combat, and/or will only need size changed once. |
| 08:23.18 | Shadowed | You should be optimizing for the OOC case and only use the secure method as a last ditch effort |
| 08:23.28 | Semlar | this is the last ditch effort |
| 08:23.37 | Shadowed | your last ditch effort is terribly inefficient :P |
| 08:23.45 | Semlar | yes? |
| 08:24.07 | Semlar | what do you want, there aren't exactly a lot of options |
| 08:24.15 | Neffi | Shadowed: "will only need size changed once" that's not true afaik |
| 08:24.23 | Shadowed | oh right nameplates are terrible now |
| 08:24.30 | Semlar | if we're doing the scale they don't get rescaled |
| 08:24.37 | Shadowed | welp you're screwed |
| 08:24.38 | Semlar | if we're doing the size they reset every time they're shown |
| 08:24.46 | Neffi | it's not like it's really *that* terrible |
| 08:24.51 | Shadowed | this is what happens when you work with nameplates |
| 08:25.03 | Semlar | we're talking pretty minimal impact on anything |
| 08:25.23 | Semlar | and that's even with it running every time you mouse over something |
| 08:27.41 | Semlar | is it possible to create variables that can be accessed by your restricted script that you didn't define inside of it |
| 08:28.48 | Semlar | like if i wanted to write a secure function that my secure script can call i don't want to have to do it inside of the script |
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| 08:31.17 | pelf | that seems to go against the point of a secure environment, no? |
| 08:31.34 | Semlar | no because it would be restricted |
| 08:32.26 | pelf | well, creating it outside of the sec. env. ... you're thinking of getting like .. "pre access" to the environment it created and will be using later? |
| 08:32.39 | Semlar | i don't want to create it outside of the secure environment |
| 08:34.23 | mikma | cairenn: http://imgur.com/gallery/1w3ScbR |
| 08:34.33 | pelf | yeah, i get that ... but that external function isn't going to be using the right stuff, eh? |
| 08:34.34 | Cairenn | :p |
| 08:34.41 | pelf | how would it be prevented from using "bad" stuff if it's made outside? |
| 08:34.42 | Semlar | it's not an external function |
| 08:35.03 | Semlar | look, you can create global variables inside of the secure environment that it can access between calls |
| 08:35.23 | Semlar | all i want to do is run that ONCE and not have to check that it already exists every single time that code is run |
| 08:35.28 | pelf | mm, i think i do remember seeing that they create it once? is that right? |
| 08:35.51 | pelf | and then reuse it? |
| 08:36.10 | pelf | i'd have to re-read those files... |
| 08:36.45 | Semlar | i need a function that can process a variable number of arguments so i can feed it the list of children and have it process them with select instead of dumping them into a table |
| 08:36.53 | Semlar | you can't do that inline |
| 08:37.25 | mikma | http://imgur.com/gallery/6zE5TuQ |
| 08:40.28 | pelf | well: https://github.com/tekkub/wow-ui-source/blob/live/FrameXML/RestrictedExecution.lua#L412 |
| 08:40.34 | pelf | and: https://github.com/tekkub/wow-ui-source/blob/live/FrameXML/RestrictedEnvironment.lua |
| 08:41.26 | Semlar | this is a little cryptic |
| 08:41.32 | pelf | and 270 on Execution.lua |
| 08:42.20 | pelf | so, the base environment is built in REnv.lua, then execution.lua uses that, and deletes it |
| 08:43.16 | Semlar | okay i'm pretty sure i can call :Execute("snippet") on my frame to introduce things to the environment |
| 08:44.25 | Semlar | yes, okay, good |
| 08:44.55 | Semlar | that's exactly what i needed |
| 08:45.03 | pelf | the secure stuff then uses CallRestrictedClosure to run stuff in the environment returned by GetManagedEnvironment(envKey, withCreate) when it passes in the frame and true |
| 08:46.25 | pelf | when a new frame is used as the key, it creates a new environment from the template |
| 08:46.41 | pelf | https://github.com/tekkub/wow-ui-source/blob/live/FrameXML/RestrictedInfrastructure.lua#L362 |
| 08:46.56 | pelf | unless i'm following that wrong :) |
| 08:47.22 | pelf | so it looks like each frame might have its own copy |
| 08:47.46 | Semlar | each frame has its own environment |
| 08:47.54 | pelf | hooray, i can read |
| 08:48.18 | Semlar | you can call :Execute() on the frame out of combat to introduce things to it |
| 08:48.34 | Semlar | so i can define my variable there and then call it in my mouseover code |
| 08:48.42 | Neffi | Semlar:Execute('fishslap') |
| 08:48.57 | Semlar | :( |
| 08:49.22 | Shirik | anyone here ever use dreamweaver? I want to create a decent-looking static webpage quickly |
| 08:49.26 | Shirik | any recommendations? |
| 08:49.38 | pelf | so there's no point where you can just initialize it with the stuff you want? |
| 08:49.47 | pelf | and then assume that's done for that frame? |
| 08:50.13 | pelf | @Shirik: i used that like 10 years ago... no idea what's happened to it now |
| 08:50.20 | Shirik | yeah same |
| 08:50.43 | Semlar | well you can call :Execute out of combat and i have no idea about proper initialization but this works for me |
| 08:51.10 | Semlar | all i wanted to do was define a function that my script could use to process the children without using a table |
| 08:51.33 | mikma | shirik: notepad++ |
| 08:52.03 | pelf | seems like you could keep track of what's been init'd so yea |
| 08:54.39 | Semlar | well good news |
| 08:54.49 | Semlar | you can't actually define functions in the secure environment |
| 08:55.01 | Semlar | so this was all pointless |
| 08:55.28 | Semlar | DAMMIT NEFFI |
| 08:55.34 | pelf | orly. what's the error? |
| 08:55.41 | pelf | want to find it |
| 08:55.54 | Neffi | I started writing the :Execute part too |
| 08:55.55 | Semlar | "the function keyword is not permitted" |
| 08:55.56 | Shirik | mikma: I think you missed the "quickly" part |
| 08:56.50 | pelf | also: no direct table creation |
| 08:57.04 | Semlar | well, you can create a table |
| 08:57.08 | pelf | signature has to match: "^[a-zA-Z_0-9, ]*[.]*$" |
| 08:57.09 | Neffi | I wonder why |
| 08:57.26 | pelf | if (body:match("[{}]")) then return nil, "Direct table creation is not permitted"; |
| 08:57.47 | Semlar | they have their own function called newtable() which does the same thing |
| 08:57.52 | Semlar | more or less |
| 08:57.58 | pelf | ah |
| 08:58.19 | Semlar | they redefine a bunch of functions for you to use in the restricted environment |
| 08:58.21 | pelf | loadstring("return function (" .. signature .. ") " .. body .. "\nend", body); |
| 08:58.34 | Semlar | but apparently you can't create your own inside there |
| 08:58.42 | pelf | after that line, they actually run the fake closure in an empty environment |
| 08:58.46 | mikma | shirik: oh i thought you knew how to code html!!!!1 |
| 08:58.49 | pelf | then run the result in the actual sec env. |
| 08:58.58 | Shirik | mikma: I think you missed the "quickly" part again |
| 08:59.20 | mikma | shirik: it's quick if you know how to code html!!!!1 |
| 08:59.26 | pelf | @Shirik: why not go with some prefab thing, then? |
| 08:59.36 | pelf | i assume there are attractive site templates out there |
| 09:02.10 | Semlar | alright screw it i don't care how inefficient this is |
| 09:02.28 | Semlar | i'd create a new table onupdate if i could |
| 09:06.25 | Semlar | i just define the table through Execute neffi |
| 09:06.43 | Semlar | then wipe it and repopulate it and compare their length |
| 09:07.05 | Semlar | it should at least cut down on calls |
| 09:07.36 | Neffi | I'm gonna make my implementation worse and just put -- #yolo above it |
| 09:09.15 | pelf | i support that |
| 09:09.29 | Neffi | high-fives pelf. |
| 09:09.49 | Neffi | oh pelf when did you start hanging around #wowuidev? |
| 09:10.30 | pelf | well ... i tend to only come in here when i run out of ideas for some code |
| 09:10.34 | pelf | kind of a dick move, i know :| |
| 09:10.48 | Semlar | I KNEW IT |
| 09:10.52 | Sintacks | http://i.imgur.com/nJEzqbe.jpg |
| 09:10.54 | pelf | but i do enjoy talking to the dev community |
| 09:10.54 | Sintacks | weeeee |
| 09:11.05 | Semlar | neffi i need to stop voicing my ideas |
| 09:11.06 | Neffi | Well I only come here to poke Semlar, so.. |
| 09:11.13 | pelf | i guess we're even |
| 09:11.14 | Sintacks | so |
| 09:11.26 | Sintacks | master has crashed three times while doing LFR. slave hasn't crashed once. |
| 09:11.31 | Neffi | Semlar: but if you dont voice your dieas, I cant steal them? |
| 09:11.40 | Neffi | why do I keep accidentally hitting "?"? |
| 09:11.43 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:12.14 | Neffi | what about it? |
| 09:12.17 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:12.37 | Neffi | haha |
| 09:12.48 | Semlar | NEFFI |
| 09:13.00 | Neffi | I'm sure yours is much better |
| 09:13.09 | Semlar | THEY TOOK MY NAME |
| 09:13.17 | pelf | is it wrong that my brain fills in -kins after neffi- every time i read it? |
| 09:13.28 | Semlar | the neffikins is understood |
| 09:13.33 | Neffi | not at all pelf |
| 09:13.34 | pelf | ok, good |
| 09:14.03 | Semlar | actually mine is terrible and i don't want people actually using it but that's beside the point |
| 09:14.25 | Semlar | just don't try to open your spellbook in combat |
| 09:15.36 | Neffi | His code has a tab width of 3 |
| 09:15.37 | pelf | ??? |
| 09:15.37 | Neffi | That automatically makes it bad |
| 09:15.37 | pelf | who does that? |
| 09:15.39 | Neffi | the other spell search semlar linked |
| 09:15.39 | Stanzilla | 2 ok |
| 09:15.39 | Stanzilla | 4 ok |
| 09:15.40 | Stanzilla | 3 ???? |
| 09:15.44 | Semlar | tab widf? |
| 09:15.53 | pelf | well, "who does that?" in a more general, disbelief kind of exclamation |
| 09:16.26 | Stanzilla | I'm still not sure if I prefer 2 or 4 for html and php :( |
| 09:16.29 | pelf | of course, my preference with that isn't widely accepted either :) |
| 09:16.48 | Stanzilla | pelf: 8? |
| 09:16.56 | pelf | keep tabs |
| 09:17.00 | pelf | but .. 4 |
| 09:17.00 | pelf | yea |
| 09:17.13 | Stanzilla | mkay |
| 09:17.16 | Neffi | I keep tabs, but I feel 2 is much more sane than anything else |
| 09:17.18 | pelf | i can't stand tabbing over, having the editor insert 4 spaces, then having to backspace 4 times |
| 09:17.26 | pelf | that infuriates me |
| 09:18.27 | pelf | if i didn't have this stupid 1080p monitor, i could see trying to optimize horizontal sprawl a bit more with a lower tab width |
| 09:19.44 | Semlar | it looks like i might be able to use :RunAttribute and define my function as an attribute of the frame |
| 09:21.42 | pelf | investigating |
| 09:21.51 | Semlar | seems to work |
| 09:22.44 | Semlar | i have frame:SetAttribute('func', 'print(...)') and i can do frame:RunAttribute('func', 'asdf') |
| 09:23.35 | pelf | yeah i don't see anything that would prevent that |
| 09:23.39 | pelf | yay! |
| 09:23.52 | Semlar | there's also :Run but i don't want it creating the function every time i want to call it |
| 09:24.26 | pelf | RunFor also exists |
| 09:24.33 | pelf | HANDLE:RunFor(otherHandle, body, ...) |
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| 09:25.24 | jleclanche | "You can't work in a field where people routinely hire full-time employees with ease. So you can't do Java work part-time, for example. (Well I mean you can, but it's like saying you can be elected to Congress. Let's do something easy.)" |
| 09:26.27 | Semlar | neffi i actually had an idea where you could clear the frame's points and arrange the nameplates like unit frames but it might be impractical |
| 09:26.40 | Neffi | it would be |
| 09:27.12 | Semlar | you couldn't do it on update so it would only sort of work |
| 09:27.47 | pelf | ok, RunFor passes the other handle to the code that runs |
| 09:28.04 | pelf | could you have one frame that gets set up then use RunFor for everything else? |
| 09:28.36 | Semlar | i think it's for when you have two secure environments and want to call functions from another one |
| 09:28.57 | Semlar | or for the other one, whichever |
| 09:29.20 | pelf | that's good, right? if you can use one frame with the attribute to run code for another frame? |
| 09:29.27 | pelf | then you only have to set it up once? |
| 09:29.34 | Semlar | i don't need to do that |
| 09:29.43 | Semlar | i can just set the attribute of the frame |
| 09:29.46 | Neffi | Stewart? |
| 09:29.51 | Semlar | yes neffi |
| 09:29.56 | Neffi | ;D |
| 09:30.04 | Neffi | You should update Instigator |
| 09:30.08 | Semlar | no neffi |
| 09:30.12 | Neffi | ;( |
| 09:30.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Yoshimo (~Miranda@unaffiliated/yoshimo) |
| 09:30.30 | Semlar | quit cyberstalking me |
| 09:30.47 | Neffi | It looked useful. I looked at the code. BAM, your name. Don't blame me. |
| 09:30.56 | Semlar | that was your first mistake |
| 09:31.01 | Neffi | :( |
| 09:31.15 | Semlar | i don't even remember what addons i have uploaded |
| 09:31.25 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 09:31.37 | Semlar | certainly nothing useful |
| 09:32.16 | Semlar | cept this ocourse http://wow.curseforge.com/addons/crackcooldown/ |
| 09:32.39 | Neffi | that's uh. a good name. |
| 09:32.59 | Semlar | what are you trying to say neffi |
| 09:33.18 | pelf | DisableMapArrow definitely fixes a problem i've had ... one useful! |
| 09:33.28 | Semlar | oh god look what you did |
| 09:33.41 | Semlar | now you've got him doing it |
| 09:33.53 | Neffi | I installed that one too |
| 09:33.53 | pelf | i promise not to look at the code! |
| 09:34.20 | Neffi | QuestPlates looks nice to |
| 09:34.36 | Semlar | ironically doing all this plate scaling is going to break it |
| 09:35.08 | Semlar | i'll probably build it into my nameplate addon |
| 09:35.59 | pelf | have either of you seen an addon that just updates the armor tooltip to look like hit/exp? i have it coded up in _devpad and did a cursory check ... didn't find one |
| 09:36.14 | pelf | in the paper doll frame |
| 09:36.51 | Semlar | i'm not sure what you mean |
| 09:37.09 | pelf | let me find the screenshot |
| 09:37.29 | pelf | http://i.imgur.com/bUorgfT.gif |
| 09:37.37 | pelf | the default tooltip shows DR versus same level |
| 09:37.39 | pelf | which is useless |
| 09:37.55 | pelf | that's my code's tooltip |
| 09:38.36 | Semlar | i see |
| 09:39.41 | pelf | it was somewhat hard to pick search terms ... i think i found an addon that did tens of other things /and/ that... maybe |
| 09:42.42 | Semlar | i'm just mad that they didn't add GetNumChildren to the restricted functions |
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| 09:50.18 | Semlar | whaaaaaaat the hell neffi |
| 09:50.48 | jleclanche | anyone on OSX with Wine available? |
| 09:51.10 | Semlar | it's technically running the snippet but it errors on f:GetName() |
| 09:52.48 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:52.51 | Neffi | Semlar: what did I do? |
| 09:53.11 | pelf | what is f? |
| 09:53.25 | Semlar | a frame |
| 09:53.34 | pelf | mm, rather: which frame is f |
| 09:53.37 | pelf | and where did you get it from |
| 09:53.43 | Semlar | one of the children of worldframe |
| 09:54.53 | pelf | what's the error? |
| 09:55.13 | Semlar | the error is pretty unhelpful |
| 09:55.21 | pelf | giggles |
| 09:55.56 | Semlar | looks like it thinks f is undefined |
| 09:56.36 | pelf | function GetFrameHandle(frame, protected) returns nil if the frame isn't... |
| 09:57.00 | pelf | if it's handle isn't a key in LOCAL_FrameHandle_Protected_Frames |
| 09:57.08 | pelf | s/it's/its/ |
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| 09:58.35 | pelf | SelfScrub also does that for frame handles |
| 10:00.15 | Semlar | it's looking like what i want to do isn't possible |
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| 10:01.10 | pelf | are any of the frames passed to your attribute function non-nil? |
| 10:01.29 | Semlar | i don't think so |
| 10:01.54 | Semlar | this code all works fine if it's in the original snippet and i dump it into a table |
| 10:02.19 | Semlar | i'm guessing it doesn't let me "introduce" frames to the environment when i'm passing the list to the function |
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| 10:04.42 | pelf | -- And then return a 'safe' wrapped invocation for the closure. |
| 10:04.42 | pelf | return function(self, ...) return def(SelfScrub(self), scrub(...)) end; |
| 10:04.47 | pelf | there it is |
| 10:05.21 | pelf | do you need to change stuff on the frames? i assume so? |
| 10:05.32 | Neffi | height/width |
| 10:05.47 | pelf | yeah, scrub lets number, boolean, string through |
| 10:05.53 | pelf | so it's input only |
| 10:06.43 | pelf | unless you can use GetFrameHandle to get a reference to them |
| 10:08.20 | pelf | doesn't look likely as the key seems to be the non-wrapped frame itself |
| 10:09.46 | Semlar | can't call GetFrameHandle |
| 10:10.30 | pelf | you're right ... my eyes were being stupid |
| 10:11.10 | pelf | can you chain up using handle:GetParent() until you get to WorldFrame? |
| 10:11.14 | pelf | then down again? |
| 10:12.08 | Semlar | https://github.com/tekkub/wow-ui-source/blob/live/FrameXML/RestrictedFrames.lua#L195 this is what i'm trying to do, which doesn't appear to be possible |
| 10:12.35 | Semlar | you do not appear to be able to get the actual handle of the frame when it's passed to the function |
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| 10:13.31 | pelf | but you do have access to the handle for the frame hosting the code, right... so |
| 10:13.50 | pelf | HANDLE:GetChildList(tbl), :GetChildren() and :GetParent() are available |
| 10:13.56 | Semlar | i have access to the LIST of children |
| 10:14.05 | Semlar | i am trying to LOOP over the list |
| 10:14.17 | Semlar | which can't be done in lua without defining your own function for it |
| 10:14.35 | Semlar | when i pass the children to the function it strips out all of the frame handles |
| 10:14.40 | Semlar | i can't use them any more |
| 10:14.56 | pelf | you mean defining an iterator function? |
| 10:15.02 | Semlar | all of this works perfectly fine if i dump the children into a table |
| 10:15.21 | Semlar | i wanted to avoid using a table |
| 10:15.23 | Semlar | that's it |
| 10:16.04 | Semlar | it makes ZERO sense that this doesn't work, but apparently you can't pass references to the frames to the other function even though it's still inside the same environment |
| 10:16.26 | pelf | hmm, could you help me understand one bit: you say you have access to the children, but you need to define a function to loop over them |
| 10:16.40 | Semlar | okay, frame:GetChildren() returns a list |
| 10:16.42 | Semlar | not a table |
| 10:16.46 | pelf | right |
| 10:16.48 | Semlar | a variable number of returns |
| 10:17.11 | Semlar | you can't loop over those without creating a function specifically to use "select" to loop over "..." |
| 10:17.44 | Semlar | or dumping them into a table like newtable(frame:GetChildren()) |
| 10:18.03 | Semlar | if i dump them into a table i can iterate over it and manipulate the frames |
| 10:18.05 | pelf | i guess i'm getting hung up on how it's different if f:GC() returned a table? |
| 10:18.27 | Semlar | you can't iterate over frame:GetChildren() |
| 10:18.57 | pelf | right, because you have to do the select thing, but doesn't just doing for i, #tbl do require a function to put the code in just the same as the other? |
| 10:19.49 | pelf | i feel like i'm being dense for some reason here... |
| 10:19.56 | Semlar | neffi |
| 10:20.00 | Neffi | ? |
| 10:20.15 | Semlar | explain why i can't loop over the children without putting them into a table |
| 10:20.18 | Neffi | tbh I think you're spending too much time/effort on this |
| 10:20.26 | Semlar | YOU'RE OUT OF LINE |
| 10:20.27 | Neffi | just use the table |
| 10:20.38 | Semlar | I HAVE TO |
| 10:20.55 | pelf | Semlar: i get that why, the why i don't get is why looping using for i = 1, #tbl do versus for i = 1, select("#", ...) do is different |
| 10:21.09 | Semlar | in terms of processing? |
| 10:21.19 | pelf | in terms of the "you have to define a function" you've been saying |
| 10:21.34 | Semlar | you mean why do i have to create a function to be able to iterate over it? |
| 10:21.35 | Neffi | To use the vararg `...`, yes |
| 10:21.40 | pelf | ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh |
| 10:21.43 | pelf | frowns |
| 10:21.49 | pelf | ok. |
| 10:21.50 | Semlar | yeah i can't assign GetChildren to a variable |
| 10:22.04 | pelf | i wasn't thinking about needing to have a function scope for a vararg |
| 10:22.08 | pelf | that's what i was missing |
| 10:22.08 | Neffi | btw don't loop with select like that. use recusion |
| 10:22.11 | Semlar | if i did it inline i'd have to call GetChildren() over and over |
| 10:22.16 | Neffi | I recently found out select actually IS very slow |
| 10:22.31 | Semlar | what are you talking about |
| 10:22.54 | Semlar | how would you make it recursive |
| 10:23.08 | pelf | well, and especially within something stuffed in an attribute... |
| 10:24.07 | Neffi | Semlar: http://pastebin.com/8WzUW3DG |
| 10:24.31 | Semlar | oh |
| 10:24.31 | pelf | hehe, the cheese slicer |
| 10:24.50 | Semlar | is this really faster than calling select |
| 10:24.55 | mikma | http://pics.kuvaton.com/bshit/13_12_11_10_9_8_7_6_5_4_3_2_1_image.jpg |
| 10:24.57 | Semlar | you still have the overhead of the function call |
| 10:25.00 | Neffi | yes, by a lot |
| 10:25.17 | Neffi | The overhead of afunction call is pretty low. select does a lot of value copying |
| 10:25.29 | Semlar | i have no idea how select works |
| 10:25.32 | Neffi | Besides, you're doing 1 more function call with the select method than with the recursion |
| 10:25.42 | Neffi | select() is a function call =P |
| 10:25.48 | Semlar | yes i know |
| 10:27.04 | Semlar | alright i've been trying to sell a river's song enchant on the auction house for a week |
| 10:27.20 | Neffi | the only time you need select is when one of the values might be nil/false (well, you can test for ==nil to allow false) |
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| 10:30.45 | Icicle | Good Morning, a fine day for leveling |
| 10:35.46 | Semlar | mebe |
| 10:36.06 | Icicle | mebe shemebe |
| 10:38.20 | Icicle | during cata is it better to just zone jump to the next area or finish the area? |
| 10:38.36 | Icicle | Vash'jr until complete or to Deepholm at 82 for example |
| 10:39.14 | Semlar | i would go to hyjal |
| 10:39.39 | pelf | ugh, there's no way to cache/reuse that temp table at all is there |
| 10:39.42 | Icicle | how come? |
| 10:39.48 | pelf | i jsut looked through these files 3 more times each |
| 10:40.43 | karl_w_w | the best thing to do in cata is just make sure you line it up so you can skip uldum completely |
| 10:42.03 | Neffi | I'd rather skip Vash'jr than Uldum |
| 10:42.18 | pelf | you don't like swimming? :| |
| 10:42.33 | pelf | i think the only class that isn't entirely annoying on might be druid |
| 10:43.01 | Neffi | I actually rather enjoyed Uldum. Hacking the Wibson was awesome |
| 10:43.17 | Neffi | http://www.wowhead.com/quest=27778/hacking-the-wibson |
| 10:43.40 | pelf | it was pretty epic ... super duper epic flying is a must, though |
| 10:43.45 | pelf | sooooo much back and forth witht hose quests |
| 10:44.21 | pelf | i'm gonna get my name changed to MrThePlague |
| 10:44.50 | Neffi | O.o |
| 10:46.58 | Icicle | <-- is a druid ^^ |
| 10:47.15 | Icicle | im looking for efficiency in leveling though |
| 10:47.27 | Icicle | I've leveled tyhrough cata 3-4 times already |
| 10:47.29 | pelf | ditto... the way the underwater speed buff interacts with aquatic form + the glyph is pretty excellent |
| 10:50.53 | Icicle | :/ to many horde in deepholm |
| 10:57.08 | karl_w_w | .:Neffi:. I'd rather skip Vash'jr than Uldum <- implying you can't skip both |
| 10:59.52 | Mr_Rabies | uldum's my favorite cata zone |
| 11:00.17 | Mr_Rabies | i really wish they'd rebuff dungeon exp though :( |
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| 13:13.35 | jleclanche | Cairenn: ping |
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| 15:06.16 | Icicle | joined linked in if anyone is interested in following :)) |
| 15:06.17 | Icicle | http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-rynearson/89/795/472?trk=fbr |
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| 15:23.42 | jleclanche | how do you call something that is real only because people believe in it? |
| 15:24.27 | jleclanche | autoexistent? :/ |
| 15:30.11 | karl_w_w | gods |
| 15:30.33 | Fisker | that's imaginary karl_w_w |
| 15:34.09 | karl_w_w | jleclanche, if there is a word for it, it's not a word that most people would know |
| 15:34.32 | karl_w_w | other than god of course, because I can't think of any other practical examples |
| 15:34.43 | jleclanche | hypnosis |
| 15:34.50 | jleclanche | i was talking to someone about it |
| 15:35.09 | jleclanche | and its pretty much the only thing that is physically real and possible just because people believe in it |
| 15:35.10 | Thunder_Child | karl_w_w: there are lots other than god |
| 15:36.27 | karl_w_w | well hypnosis would be something that can cause it, not the thing itself :P |
| 15:36.28 | jleclanche | karl_w_w: more to the point, it is a recurring theme in fiction |
| 15:36.41 | jleclanche | karl_w_w: you misunderstand |
| 15:36.42 | karl_w_w | yes, it's a very common one in discworld |
| 15:36.53 | jleclanche | the very act of hypnosis is only possible because people believe in it |
| 15:37.08 | jleclanche | if everyone stopped believing in hypnosis at once it wouldnt be possible anymore |
| 15:37.24 | karl_w_w | I disagree :P |
| 15:37.28 | Thunder_Child | That might be unrealistick |
| 15:37.32 | Thunder_Child | unrealistic* |
| 15:37.43 | karl_w_w | stic to you guns Thunder_Child |
| 15:38.01 | jleclanche | karl_w_w: disagree with what? |
| 15:38.27 | Thunder_Child | There are physiopsychological responses that bypass higher brain functions |
| 15:38.45 | karl_w_w | I think people are pliable enough that they can be hypnotised even if they don't believe in it |
| 15:39.30 | jleclanche | people can only be hypnotised if they believe they are being hypnotised |
| 15:39.46 | karl_w_w | most allow themselves to be hypnotised because they believe, but a few are pre-disposed imo |
| 15:39.47 | Thunder_Child | Proof? |
| 15:39.55 | jleclanche | Thunder_Child: ive done hypnosis? |
| 15:40.05 | Thunder_Child | That is not proof |
| 15:40.12 | jleclanche | it's how it *works* |
| 15:41.18 | Thunder_Child | We 'know' how the rules of the univers work, but it doesnt mean we are right, or that things keep changing |
| 15:41.26 | Thunder_Child | universe* |
| 15:41.59 | jleclanche | im not talking about some quantic state of the human mind here |
| 15:42.09 | jleclanche | im saying you cant hypnotise someone who doesnt believe they're being hypnotised |
| 15:42.59 | Thunder_Child | And I'm saying you don't know that for sure. |
| 15:44.31 | jleclanche | im claiming something is red and you're saying i don't know that for sure |
| 15:44.47 | jleclanche | i could bring in someone who's spent sixty years studying colors you'd still say he cant be sure its red |
| 15:45.00 | jleclanche | you're being pretty pointless conversation :/ |
| 15:45.12 | jleclanche | s//to this/ |
| 15:45.54 | Icicle | im confused if trolling or legit |
| 15:46.09 | jleclanche | who? |
| 15:46.35 | Icicle | both really, :)) |
| 15:46.39 | jleclanche | why? |
| 15:46.44 | karl_w_w | studying something and doing something are completely different things |
| 15:47.01 | Icicle | the line "I could bring in someone whos spent sixty years studying colors" |
| 15:47.20 | jleclanche | Thunder_Child is bringing forward the point that we cant be sure of our own reality |
| 15:47.37 | Icicle | makes me think you know some very old children, mental patients, and feel like it could be prudent to bring them into a conversation. Which seems silly, so I doubt its authenticity |
| 15:47.41 | jleclanche | which is the weakest possible argument that can be applied against *everything* |
| 15:47.52 | Thunder_Child | No I'm trying to get people to be specific. "sing current techniques you can not hypnotise someone who does not believe they can be hypnotized" etc. |
| 15:47.58 | Thunder_Child | Using* |
| 15:48.08 | karl_w_w | if you said you spent years analysing brainwaves to see how people respond to hypnosis and you can say there is no possibility of being hypnotised without believing then that's one thing, but saying "I've done hypnosis so I know" is something else entirely |
| 15:48.51 | karl_w_w | unless you have attempted to hypnotise all the people who don't believe |
| 15:49.27 | jleclanche | its how hypnosis works, anyone who's even loosely studied the subject knows that how it works; the very mechanic of how it's played with and modeled on is the fact you are making someone believe they're being hypnotised |
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| 15:52.12 | jleclanche | and if you're doing something to someone that is putting them into what you would call a "trance" they themselves dont believe in, thats not hypnosis |
| 15:52.14 | jleclanche | its something else |
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| 15:53.18 | Thunder_Child | "the induction of a state of consciousness in which a person apparently loses the power of voluntary action and is highly responsive to suggestion or direction." Sure sounds like it is. |
| 15:54.48 | jleclanche | Thunder_Child: when you are hypnotising someone, you are making them believe what's happening to them is real, through suggestion |
| 15:55.13 | jleclanche | the entire act is based on the person's belief in the act |
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| 16:02.36 | karl_w_w | abstract object might be the thing you're looking for, jleclanche |
| 16:02.45 | jleclanche | nah |
| 16:04.29 | karl_w_w | how would an abstract object exist if nobody thought about it? :P |
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| 16:41.04 | rot | hello |
| 16:42.09 | rot | I've some questions about frames, anchoring and fontstring |
| 16:42.53 | rot | http://cpaste.org/pgsidlrrw |
| 16:43.17 | rot | could someone explaing me why i need to use those "weird" anchoring offsets to have the fontstring actually wrapping in the right way? |
| 16:43.58 | rot | also, why the button height is 48, while the frame, anchored to it, is 60? |
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| 16:59.59 | tissle | if i create a SecureActionButton and mybutton:CreateTexture("mybutton1icon","ARTWORK"), mybutton1icon:SetTexture(), should i not be able to change that texture with mybutton1icon:SetTexture() later? Game reports having chnaged my icon if i ask it mybutton1icon:GetTexture, but the icon remains the same? |
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| 17:47.52 | pompy | http://www.viralnova.com/12-year-old-letter/ so sad :\ |
| 17:47.52 | pompy | and she wrote about Doctor Who too |
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| 17:51.11 | Shirik | I have decided Aviation Safety Officers are actually the devil incarnate |
| 17:56.28 | zenzelezz | who are they? |
| 17:58.10 | Gnarfoz | people responsible for aviation safety, I'd assume |
| 17:58.16 | Shirik | basically the guy in charge of mishap investigation and prevention |
| 17:59.13 | zenzelezz | I'm guessing "mishap" is a step below what the NTSB cares about then? |
| 17:59.50 | Shirik | no |
| 18:00.28 | Shirik | actually it's what the NTSB usually cares about |
| 18:00.36 | Shirik | there are 'mishaps' and 'incidents' |
| 18:00.52 | Shirik | mishaps = something really bad happened, incident = something dangerous happened but everything turned out ok |
| 18:01.01 | zenzelezz | are the ASOs part of NTSB then? I've never heard about ASO before |
| 18:01.15 | Shirik | NTSB has ASOs |
| 18:01.16 | zenzelezz | granted I don't really investigate the US aviation system |
| 18:01.26 | Shirik | there are other agencies that do too |
| 18:01.28 | Shirik | like the air force, etc. |
| 18:01.37 | Shirik | an ASO is certified by the FAA to be an ASO |
| 18:02.06 | zenzelezz | quite excited to finally get some actual new episodes of Aircraft Investigation again this Tuesday |
| 18:02.51 | zenzelezz | *Aircrash |
| 18:03.16 | Shirik | is that a documentary? |
| 18:03.35 | zenzelezz | kind of, yeah |
| 18:03.42 | zenzelezz | National Geographic series |
| 18:04.11 | zenzelezz | they examine the causes for real accidents |
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| 18:30.30 | Icicle | when coding with multiple classes in mind, whats the best way to get the class of a player? I'm using this, but wondering if theres a better way. http://pastebin.com/s8X5R08f |
| 18:31.26 | Shirik | that's pretty much what you got |
| 18:31.47 | Icicle | okay, was afraid using "player" might not work for clients in different languages |
| 18:31.54 | Shirik | (though you could combine those into a single line if you wanted; it would result in the same code though so it's whatever you think looks better) |
| 18:33.22 | Icicle | ah true, I kinda like having multi line code, but its more efficient if I do one line |
| 18:34.37 | Shirik | no it's not |
| 18:34.43 | Shirik | it results in identical opcodes |
| 18:34.53 | Shirik | you should write whatever you think looks cleaner |
| 18:35.07 | Icicle | no white space to chunk through |
| 18:35.15 | Shirik | doesn't matter |
| 18:35.16 | Icicle | to be fair though its such a ridiculously tiny gain |
| 18:35.22 | Icicle | yah it doesnt matter in the end :)) |
| 18:35.23 | Shirik | the tokenizer only runs once |
| 18:35.58 | Shirik | there is actually one small performance gain you can get |
| 18:36.01 | Shirik | but it also changes the behavior |
| 18:36.06 | rot | Icicle why write a function for that when you can directly use the API? |
| 18:36.26 | Shirik | if you return multiple values it will be optimized into a tailcall |
| 18:36.26 | Shirik | rot: bad |
| 18:36.35 | rot | what's bad? |
| 18:36.44 | Shirik | I like the level of indirection he adds, as well as the fact that it makes his code cleaner wherever he uses it |
| 18:36.49 | Icicle | ah I didnt realize that Shirik, thanks |
| 18:37.09 | rot | mmmh |
| 18:37.49 | Shirik | the level of indirection also allows for performance improvements down the road |
| 18:38.17 | Shirik | for example, we know the player's class will never change, so we could memoize it |
| 18:38.21 | Shirik | not that I particularly care for that optimization, but still |
| 18:38.21 | rot | how come? it's one more function call on the stack, isn't it? |
| 18:38.21 | Gnarfoz | premature optimization ftw |
| 18:38.21 | Shirik | point is decoupling from code you don't control is a good thing |
| 18:39.03 | Shirik | firstly, if it's optimized into a tail call, it's actually not another function call on the stack |
| 18:39.13 | rot | tail call? |
| 18:39.15 | Shirik | and secondly, that's not something you should be worrying about here (or almost ever) |
| 18:39.43 | Shirik | lua optimizes certain sequences of code into a jump instruction, instead of a call |
| 18:40.15 | Shirik | this is a standard optimization known as a tail call |
| 18:40.16 | rot | ah |
| 18:40.54 | Iriel | Also function calls are relatively cheap |
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| 18:40.56 | rot | usually I don't decouple like that, when I can directly use the standard API |
| 18:40.56 | Iriel | Generally though the key point is readable/maintainable/extensible code outweighs "pure performance" in most siutations |
| 18:40.56 | Shirik | rot: hence, bad. |
| 18:40.58 | rot | but a standard call, is readable by everyone |
| 18:41.00 | Iriel | I wouldn't say "bad' necessarily |
| 18:41.01 | Shirik | decoupling is a Very Good Thingâ„¢ |
| 18:41.04 | Iriel | It depends how often you use it |
| 18:41.12 | rot | a call like that....force you to check the code |
| 18:41.14 | Iriel | If rot's code only looks up the class in one place, doing it inline is fine |
| 18:41.18 | Icicle | I'm tweeting that now Shirik ;) |
| 18:41.19 | Shirik | sure |
| 18:41.39 | Iriel | If on the other hand there's 5 places in the code that do it, then having a (well named) function is almost certainly better |
| 18:41.50 | rot | ah |
| 18:43.03 | Iriel | rot: Good decoupling/abstraction/indirection means you don't NEED to go read the function definition |
| 18:43.04 | rot | I kinda lack these "good code practice" |
| 18:43.04 | Iriel | It should be obvious what the method does, you spare yourself the need to understand /how/ it does it most of the time |
| 18:43.55 | kd3 | the more experience I have programming, the more I find these "good coding practices" exist for a reason |
| 18:43.56 | rot | yeah Iriel, but I'm usually a curious person...especcially when I write/read code |
| 18:43.56 | kd3 | especially when I'm cleaning up after someone else |
| 18:44.39 | rot | kd3 you're right there... |
| 18:44.39 | Iriel | Curiosity is fine, but often it's better to go in layers |
| 18:44.39 | rot | ...so I guess that... |
| 18:45.46 | rot | <@Shirik> rot: bad |
| 18:45.46 | rot | fits... |
| 18:45.46 | Iriel | Understand a method, then understand the methods it calls, etc |
| 18:45.47 | Icicle | rot bad Icicle Good |
| 18:45.47 | Icicle | ? |
| 18:45.50 | Thunder_Child | You wish |
| 18:45.50 | rot | Icicle even worse |
| 18:45.50 | Icicle | shit |
| 18:45.50 | rot | ahh |
| 18:45.51 | rot | anyway I posted some UI code before... |
| 18:45.51 | Iriel | It's not really about hiding code from you, it's about reducing the amount you have to have in your head at a single moment in time |
| 18:45.51 | rot | ...someone care to explain? :P |
| 18:45.57 | Shirik | the fundamental difference between tailcall and a normal call: http://pastebin.com/mvfYk57M |
| 18:45.58 | Shirik | the call to bar() crashes immediately with a stack overflow; the call to foo() is an infinite loop that runs forever |
| 18:45.58 | Iriel | rot: Are you going to post it again then? |
| 18:45.58 | rot | sure |
| 18:45.58 | rot | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:45.58 | Iriel | Shirik: I'm not sure 'infinite loop that runs forever' is good to include in an example 8-) |
| 18:46.15 | Shirik | ok what |
| 18:46.19 | Iriel | rot: I think you have a typo in the comment on line 7 |
| 18:46.33 | rot | :( |
| 18:46.45 | Iriel | What's "dp" ? |
| 18:46.52 | rot | debugprint |
| 18:46.59 | Iriel | ah, why not just do print? |
| 18:47.01 | rot | a commodity function |
| 18:47.09 | Shirik | gotta go to work bai |
| 18:47.13 | Iriel | print(" NameFrame width:", box name:GetWidth()) |
| 18:47.18 | rot | cause I can add a color to dp :D |
| 18:47.20 | Iriel | without the space between box and name |
| 18:47.22 | Iriel | I see. |
| 18:47.38 | rot | that's not the point!! |
| 18:47.49 | Iriel | It's "strange" to set point 3 corners |
| 18:47.50 | rot | why btn returns a height of 48? |
| 18:48.02 | Iriel | you're sort of screwing with the constraint system |
| 18:48.55 | rot | mmh, I need that frame large as the parent tho |
| 18:48.56 | Iriel | You shouldn't have to set *THREE* points |
| 18:49.29 | Iriel | You should be able to set 2 opposite corners. I'm not sure what you think you're doing by setting 3 |
| 18:49.30 | rot | I could use height from button probably, right? |
| 18:49.30 | Iriel | I think you misunderstand me |
| 18:49.30 | Shirik | btw rot, I am a Software Architect by profession, so unfortunately I have a different perspective than you on these things. I highly value good design and good coding practices, whereas most software engineers usually highly value "things work correctly". So when I say "bad" do note that it's ok to have a differing opinion. Usually it's a tug-of-war type thing that happens and a balance forms in the middle. |
| 18:49.30 | rot | nono, I did |
| 18:49.38 | Shirik | I care much less about things being easy to develop at first, and more about them being easy to maintain later |
| 18:49.52 | rot | Shirik: as I said, I'm kinda ignorant on these subject...and I would love to learn more... |
| 18:49.58 | Shirik | I'm just warning you that not everyone agrees with me :) |
| 18:50.02 | rot | ...so, be assureb that from now on, I'll decouple more |
| 18:50.14 | Shirik | you shouldn't take my word as gospel |
| 18:50.14 | kd3 | wait, anyone agrees with you, shirik? |
| 18:50.16 | Shirik | :( |
| 18:50.17 | Icicle | chiming in with Shirik, I work in a multi-dev environment with non native english speakers, so I have to really justify my code to them |
| 18:50.22 | Iriel | Usually when we disagree with you it's because you're wrong, Shirik |
| 18:50.34 | Shirik | you all suck I'm leaving now :P |
| 18:50.39 | Icicle | :( |
| 18:50.56 | rot | Iriel so, can you tell me, why I need to use those "weird" offset to have my fontstring to wrap in the correct way there? |
| 18:51.04 | Thunder_Child | That's what you said 20 min ago Shirik |
| 18:51.09 | Thunder_Child | now git |
| 18:51.37 | Shirik | I can't6 find my shoes |
| 18:51.40 | rot | I'm testing it on a 1024x768 client |
| 18:51.50 | Thunder_Child | Well they arent in IRC. |
| 18:52.28 | rot | at first the boxnameframe wasn't there...and I was anchoring the fontstring to that texture |
| 18:52.52 | rot | then I added the frame to test it out something else, but these 'weird' offset are still needed |
| 18:53.05 | Iriel | I'm not sure I can answer that, the setPoints on boxnameframe and box name are "wrong" so they may be part of your issue, or a total red herring. |
| 18:53.37 | rot | I will try to anchor them using 2 points only |
| 18:53.47 | Iriel | FontString wrapping can be a bit odd if you're /right/ at the size needed to fit the text |
| 18:54.11 | rot | odd as in " -28, 32" |
| 18:54.13 | rot | ? |
| 18:54.34 | Iriel | I just mean if you have text that says it needs exactly 104 pixels of width, and a 104 pixel wide font string |
| 18:54.45 | rot | what I'm saying is that would be "logic" to have something like -4, 4 |
| 18:54.47 | Iriel | You can run into odd rounding issues as you scale things, sometimes. |
| 18:55.24 | Iriel | Is the problem when you don't have -4, 4 that it wraps, or that it just doesn't appear where you expect it? |
| 18:55.33 | rot | but with that, the fontstring overboard for 20+ pixels too |
| 18:55.43 | Iriel | One question is whether the texture you're using has any built in border |
| 18:56.00 | rot | it appears in the right place, but the string goes out of the frame for 20+ pixels |
| 18:56.27 | rot | the texture is the standard ("Interface\\MerchantFrame\\UI-Merchant-LabelSlots") |
| 18:56.43 | rot | taken frm the blizzard group-loot frame |
| 18:56.51 | rot | I guess it has no border |
| 18:57.04 | Iriel | Have you considered anchoring fs_name to boxname |
| 18:57.52 | rot | I did that before adding the boxtextframe |
| 18:57.53 | Iriel | Rather than anchoring the image and the font string DIFFERENTLY |
| 18:57.53 | rot | boxnameframe, sorry |
| 18:57.59 | mikma | shirik: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BCh-v51CAAA9HuT.jpg |
| 18:58.02 | rot | originally, there was no boxnameframe |
| 18:58.13 | Iriel | I see. |
| 18:58.15 | rot | I was anchoring the fs directly to the texture |
| 18:58.36 | rot | and the fs was a btn child |
| 18:59.09 | rot | so, my questions are, why these weird offsets, and why different heights for btn and boxnameframe :P |
| 18:59.17 | rot | that's puzzling me a alot |
| 18:59.32 | Iriel | That texture has a bunch of padding |
| 18:59.35 | Iriel | In the image |
| 19:00.12 | rot | I'm not asking for the "TRUTH"...more like some guideline to understand why |
| 19:00.16 | rot | yeah, figured that the texture has wierd think below and on the right |
| 19:00.26 | rot | might be related to that? |
| 19:00.38 | rot | things* |
| 19:00.41 | rot | like transparencies |
| 19:00.48 | Iriel | Right |
| 19:01.12 | Iriel | One trick i've found quite helpful is to anchor a solid color texture with an alpha to make it fairly transparent to things |
| 19:01.16 | Iriel | to see how large they REALLY are |
| 19:01.25 | Iriel | texture images can be misleading because they can have baked-in borders |
| 19:01.56 | rot | so, you suggest I anchor another texture to that one...and see where the one I have is failing? |
| 19:02.02 | Iriel | Just for testing |
| 19:02.12 | Iriel | create a texture, set it to solid red, with an alpha of 0.5 |
| 19:02.19 | Iriel | SetAllPoints against the image |
| 19:02.21 | rot | ...are you also implying that all these problems might be related to the texture I'm using? |
| 19:02.55 | Iriel | I'm implying the reason you think the alignment is off is that you might be assuming things about the texture's ACTUAL size that are at odds with how it looks on screen |
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| 19:03.24 | Iriel | I could create a 500 x 500 pixel texture, but only have an 8x8 pixel section that's visible. |
| 19:03.32 | Iriel | and the rest is all transparent. |
| 19:03.44 | Iriel | that tends to end up confusing. |
| 19:03.47 | rot | ah, so if I SetAllPoint to that... |
| 19:04.05 | rot | ...I will be screwed badly...I see |
| 19:04.17 | Iriel | Well, you'd find you don't get what you expect. |
| 19:04.48 | rot | ok, I'll test using a solid texture for that to see how screwed is the one i'm using |
| 19:04.49 | Iriel | A simpler 'quick test' is this.... |
| 19:05.14 | Iriel | add a Settexture call after line 18 to pick a solid color instead of the imaghe |
| 19:05.34 | rot | yeah, that's quick and smart |
| 19:05.58 | rot | I will see what a "right" texture looks like that way |
| 19:06.11 | Iriel | But, going back to the SetPoints earlier, think of SetPoint("TOPLEFT") as setting a constraint on TOP and a constraint on LEFT |
| 19:06.42 | Iriel | Your 3-setpoint runs do TOP, LEFT, BOTTOM, LEFT, TOP, RIGHT |
| 19:06.47 | Iriel | So lines 9 and 20 are essentially irrelevant |
| 19:06.50 | rot | well, that was a workaround really |
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| 19:07.36 | rot | I'll fix that |
| 19:07.55 | rot | ...but what about the different height reported by btn and boxnameframe? |
| 19:08.12 | rot | they look the same, visually |
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| 19:08.38 | rot | still the btn report 48 (as set by SetHeight) while the boxnameframe reports 60 |
| 19:08.43 | Iriel | Based on what? Frames and Buttons are invisible by default |
| 19:09.17 | rot | if I add a print(btn:GetHeight()) there, I get 48 |
| 19:09.29 | Iriel | You should find, given your current anchors, that the height of boxnameframe is dependent on offsetY |
| 19:09.33 | rot | and the boxnameframe:GetHeight() returns 60 |
| 19:09.49 | rot | ah |
| 19:10.06 | rot | cause I'm anchoring it to the btn:GetParent() |
| 19:10.06 | Iriel | since you anchor the bottom your boxnameframe to btn, and the top of it to btn's parent, which itself is possibly offset from btn by a variable |
| 19:15.32 | rot | let me chech my code |
| 19:15.33 | rot | offsetY is 29 right now :P |
| 19:15.34 | rot | -29 |
| 19:15.35 | rot | and btn:GetParent() == hParent |
| 19:15.35 | rot | but...don't worry |
| 19:15.36 | rot | first I'll fix the anchors...then, if I still have these "weird" number, I'll get back to ya |
| 19:15.36 | rot | cheers, you've been very helpful |
| 19:15.36 | rot | is writing down a reminder: "DONT USE SILLY ANCHORS" |
| 19:15.37 | Iriel | Heh, generally you anchor one corner and set height/width, 2 opposite corners, or two corners on the same edge and exactly one of set height or width. |
| 19:15.37 | rot | I guess I'll use the third there |
| 19:15.37 | rot | cause the button width will be "fixed" |
| 19:15.37 | Icicle | the entire SC2 UI system is based on anchors |
| 19:15.37 | rot | while that "boxname" width will be dependant on the "window" width |
| 19:15.38 | rot | <rot> cause the button width will be "fixed" <--- height* |
| 19:16.00 | rot | so, I'll anchor topleft and topright...and I will use btn:GetHeight() |
| 19:16.29 | rot | that's what I wanted to do, with the 3 anchor points, really |
| 19:28.55 | Icicle | confused hunter icon with rogue icon... clearly not enough wine |
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| 19:57.24 | Icicle | @Shirik a reply I got on your comment, decoupling your own code between semantic groups is also a good design principle (dep. injection), - see S.O.L.I.D. principles |
| 19:57.35 | Icicle | also good for @ Rot |
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| 20:24.30 | Icicle | to get a frame to modify attributes... Frame = new frame Frame ? |
| 20:24.44 | Icicle | how do I instantiate it in lua |
| 20:25.12 | Icicle | sorry for noob question |
| 20:25.39 | Iriel | Use CreateFrame |
| 20:25.56 | Iriel | ~api CreateFrame |
| 20:25.56 | purl | !api CreateFrame |
| 20:26.01 | Icicle | already created frame though |
| 20:26.06 | Icicle | in xml |
| 20:26.12 | Iriel | then reference it as a global |
| 20:26.18 | Iriel | assuming you gave it a name |
| 20:26.30 | Icicle | Tripper ^^ yes |
| 20:26.56 | Iriel | If you create a named frame in XML then it's already present in the lua environment |
| 20:32.41 | Icicle | hmm that's what I figured... im getting an error telling me its a nil value though |
| 20:32.41 | Icicle | :"TripperUI:OnLoad":1: attempt to call global "TripperUI_OnLoad" (a nil value) |
| 20:32.42 | Iriel | I'm not sure why you think you need to do that |
| 20:32.42 | Iriel | WoW called the OnLoad handler when the frame was created |
| 20:32.43 | Iriel | Oh, I see |
| 20:32.43 | Iriel | Your XML references a lua function TripperUI_OnLoad |
| 20:32.43 | Iriel | did you run the lua file that defines that function (globally) before you ran the XML? |
| 20:32.43 | Icicle | oh I see it now, in the scripts... im using the AddOn Studio |
| 20:32.43 | Icicle | it auto made this for me -_- |
| 20:32.43 | Iriel | That's the problem with wizards |
| 20:32.43 | Icicle | im pretty familiar with the visual studio environment so I thought it'd be nice to transition too |
| 20:32.44 | Icicle | most of my code is web based |
| 20:32.44 | Icicle | but I did some C# back in the day |
| 20:32.44 | Iriel | That could be true, but you probably need to open up every file it creates to figure out what it did |
| 20:32.51 | Icicle | probably so, what do the cool kids use as an IDE these days for wow addons? |
| 20:33.35 | Iriel | is not a good person to ask that of 8-) |
| 20:33.49 | Iriel | I just use emacs for addons |
| 20:34.07 | Icicle | ah im spoiled on intellisense :) |
| 20:34.21 | Iriel | I only use an IDE for Java (though at some point I might bother to learn Xcode for C++) |
| 20:34.51 | Iriel | since I can never get the eclipse C++ stuff to work right |
| 20:38.48 | Icicle | been having a fun time learning Ogre with C++ and visual studio |
| 20:38.49 | Icicle | its so much simpler when you have an IT group to configure your web server ^^ |
| 20:39.13 | Icicle | no thoughts on loading libraries or if you have the right library to build from |
| 20:39.13 | Icicle | my terminology is a bit out of whack, apologies |
| 20:40.43 | karl_w_w | http://gamebattles.majorleaguegaming.com/pc/hearthstone-heroes-of-warcraft/tournament/na-managrind-open-13/bracket <- error 500 for anyone else? |
| 20:40.59 | Icicle | yes |
| 20:41.02 | Icicle | or a graphic that says a 500 error |
| 20:41.15 | karl_w_w | :P |
| 20:41.21 | karl_w_w | it's back now, all is peachy |
| 20:41.57 | Icicle | you work for MLG? |
| 20:42.03 | Icicle | or were just curious |
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| 20:56.20 | Cairenn | jleclanche: pong |
| 21:01.15 | Icicle | IT WORKS |
| 21:01.15 | Icicle | (party) |
| 21:01.23 | Icicle | or not... shit |
| 21:04.50 | jnwhiteh | Okay |
| 21:04.51 | jnwhiteh | so default android keyboard |
| 21:04.52 | jnwhiteh | i type t h r |
| 21:04.53 | jnwhiteh | rather than correcting to the |
| 21:04.53 | jnwhiteh | it suggests Thr (it capatlises it) |
| 21:04.53 | jnwhiteh | please.. help |
| 21:04.53 | jnwhiteh | its driving me insane! |
| 21:05.29 | kd3 | settings -> language&keyboard --> user dictionary |
| 21:05.36 | jnwhiteh | nope |
| 21:05.41 | jnwhiteh | good guess, though |
| 21:05.42 | kd3 | something like that depending on your flavor of android |
| 21:05.44 | kd3 | huh |
| 21:06.03 | jnwhiteh | also |
| 21:06.04 | jnwhiteh | its not in my contacts |
| 21:07.15 | Icicle | friend trolled you, used it to much and made it recognized |
| 21:07.19 | Icicle | ? |
| 21:07.36 | Icicle | it = Thr |
| 21:07.42 | jnwhiteh | i'm not sure it learns like that. |
| 21:13.37 | Icicle | I suppose if its bothering you, you could get a different keyboard app |
| 21:13.46 | karl_w_w | i was in the tournament Icicle |
| 21:14.33 | Icicle | ah kay, do you do the ESL cups as well? |
| 21:14.41 | karl_w_w | nah |
| 21:14.54 | karl_w_w | just that one |
| 21:16.52 | Icicle | http://www.esl.eu/eu/hearthstone/1on1/beta_cup13/ |
| 21:16.53 | Icicle | esl one going on tomorrow if it works out with your time zone |
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| 21:22.13 | karl_w_w | ah but it's EU, Icicle |
| 21:23.53 | Icicle | ah right no global play wit hhearthstone yet |
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| 22:09.26 | Icicle | ok, good night everyone, more lua work tomorrow |
| 22:09.27 | Icicle | zzz |
| 22:15.43 | rot | nooo |
| 22:15.47 | rot | <Icicle> also good for @ Rot |
| 22:15.59 | rot | I wanted to ask about some good reading about "design" :( |
| 22:16.30 | rot | anyway Iriel, someone came up with: box_name:SetTexCoord(0, .84375, 0, .65625) |
| 22:16.38 | rot | I guess this crops the texture |
| 22:16.56 | rot | ...so now, I can anchor with -4,4 down there :) |
| 22:17.19 | rot | ...and I removed the 3-anchors, going for 2anchors + height |
| 22:35.29 | Neffi | I'm looking to pull individual pages out of multiple PDF files and merge those pages into one PDF file. Anyone recommend software for that? |
| 22:35.43 | Neffi | I don't need anything too fancy, really just that one feature. |
| 22:36.23 | Mr_Rabies | i know acrobat proper can but uh |
| 22:36.35 | Mr_Rabies | that's about as fancy as you can get when it comes to handling pdfs |
| 22:37.14 | Neffi | My brother needs to use this for work, so I want something simple enough for him to use. He's pretty computer illiterate. |
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| 23:00.59 | Sintacks | deleted \data\ \cache\ \updates\ \utils\ to force redownload/install to see if i stop locking up |
| 23:01.01 | Sintacks | again |
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| 23:08.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Semlar-Laptop (~Semlar@142.196.185.93) |
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| 23:18.15 | Sintacks | Downstream: 5857.99 KBytes/s Upstream: 66.99 KBytes/s |
| 23:20.03 | rot | lal |
| 23:22.30 | pumba | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:22.50 | Semlar-Laptop | neffi! |
| 23:23.39 | Neffi | hey Semlar |
| 23:24.21 | Neffi | Sintacks: at least you get good speeds. I top out at 3 MB/s while download WoW, and it doesnt take too long to download |
| 23:25.55 | Neffi | Semlar: do anything more with your nameplates? |
| 23:26.05 | Semlar-Laptop | that is almost 50mbps |
| 23:26.34 | Semlar-Laptop | always with the doing things! |
| 23:27.38 | Semlar-Laptop | i only get 10mbps down |
| 23:28.29 | kd3|hate`net | oh, poor thing |
| 23:28.42 | kd3|hate`net | is still rocking 1.5/128 |
| 23:28.49 | Neffi | oh jesus christ |
| 23:28.59 | Neffi | how do you survive? |
| 23:29.01 | Semlar-Laptop | yeah? well i pay $60 a month for it |
| 23:29.06 | kd3|hate`net | same here |
| 23:29.16 | kd3 | by using my previous nick, neffi |
| 23:29.18 | Semlar-Laptop | it's a total rip off |
| 23:29.20 | kd3 | and copious amounts of alcohol |
| 23:29.29 | Neffi | Heh. When broken down I think I pay less for 24/5 |
| 23:30.03 | Neffi | And if I pay $10 a month I can upgrade to 50/25 |
| 23:30.24 | Stanzilla | 40 euros for 16/1 |
| 23:30.31 | Semlar-Laptop | $10 a month? |
| 23:30.42 | Neffi | $10 a month more, yes |
| 23:30.46 | Semlar-Laptop | more |
| 23:31.06 | Neffi | Right now it's HDTV (2 boxes) + phone + internet for ~$100 a month |
| 23:31.16 | Semlar-Laptop | ah but that's different |
| 23:31.26 | Semlar-Laptop | i only pay for internet and get screwed |
| 23:31.49 | Neffi | It still works out to $10 more for more than twice the speed. (I actually pay for 20/5 and get 24/5, so 50/25 would probably get like 60/25) |
| 23:32.02 | Neffi | FiOS is great like that |
| 23:32.32 | Maldivia | 24 euro/month, for 100/100 :) |
| 23:32.41 | Neffi | damn, game over |
| 23:32.58 | Neffi | What country/area? |
| 23:33.02 | Maldivia | Estonia |
| 23:33.48 | rot | 37 euro/month, for 640kbit/256kbit |
| 23:34.08 | Neffi | I'm surprised you can play WoW on that |
| 23:34.16 | rot | it's quite fine |
| 23:34.24 | rot | 110ms usually |
| 23:34.43 | rot | but I often get lagspikes |
| 23:34.50 | kd3 | you could play wow on dialup... it'd go poorly in raids, but open world stuff was passable |
| 23:35.00 | rot | yap |
| 23:35.22 | rot | I wonder how much traffic you do, afk for a day in a capital |
| 23:35.23 | Semlar-Laptop | i've played wow on dialup |
| 23:35.24 | Neffi | Ehh, not well. The lag is noticeable. It's not the speed, it's the quality of the connection |
| 23:35.32 | Neffi | I have too, and it was torment |
| 23:35.41 | Semlar-Laptop | it was stable |
| 23:35.45 | Neffi | rot: /dump GetNetStats() |
| 23:35.52 | Neffi | Tells your down/up speeds |
| 23:35.55 | rot | well, this one is a dsl...so it's fine |
| 23:36.11 | rot | Neffi I mean the total amount of data exchanged on the cable |
| 23:36.28 | Neffi | Hmm.. |
| 23:36.44 | rot | like 30mbyte/hour? |
| 23:36.51 | rot | M* |
| 23:37.01 | Neffi | I doubt it's that high |
| 23:37.22 | Neffi | I don't remember what WoW averages, so I'd have to write a script to profile it or record it for a little to run some numbers |
| 23:37.42 | rot | I think it's more than 30Mbyte |
| 23:37.46 | Neffi | You also gotta remember it's not *always* peak hour |
| 23:38.03 | rot | still in a city, full of players, you exchange quite a lot packets |
| 23:38.04 | Neffi | Your usage might get cut in half or better in the middle of the night |
| 23:38.12 | Neffi | Depends on server |
| 23:38.16 | rot | :D |
| 23:38.51 | Neffi | It's low enough that when people ask on the forums if WoW will hit up against their data caps, I can safely say "no" |
| 23:39.05 | Sintacks | lol Neffi. |
| 23:39.06 | Neffi | So that's all that really matters |
| 23:39.09 | Sintacks | re: speeds |
| 23:39.14 | Sintacks | Downstream: 6301.78 KBytes/s Upstream: 58.31 KBytes/s |
| 23:39.15 | Sintacks | weeeeeeeeeeee |
| 23:39.24 | Neffi | >_> |
| 23:39.32 | Sintacks | 14GB remaining |
| 23:39.40 | Sintacks | it's not to optimal yet |
| 23:39.50 | rot | it's crazy how big the client is become |
| 23:39.57 | Sintacks | s/is/has/ |
| 23:40.08 | rot | it's crazy how big the client has become |
| 23:40.15 | Sintacks | =p |
| 23:40.15 | Neffi | http://imgur.com/gallery/TqVkO heh |
| 23:40.57 | rot | that's a lot of cheese |
| 23:41.10 | rot | ...hated the social-interaction in skyrim |
| 23:41.17 | rot | it was totally game-breaking for me |
| 23:41.46 | rot | you go in a village, murder the chief's family...and still, he gives ya quests |
| 23:41.58 | Neffi | I like this one http://imgur.com/gallery/6Zl7k |
| 23:43.30 | rot | Eso gonna be that bad as well |
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| 23:44.51 | Neffi | I disagree that Skyrim was bad. I love that game. |
| 23:45.08 | rot | it wasn't bad.... |
| 23:45.23 | rot | ...but really...0 social-interaction/IA |
| 23:45.32 | rot | or AI |
| 23:45.50 | Neffi | all the interaction I need http://youtu.be/Mf4AWJA7SVw |
| 23:46.00 | Neffi | he's absolutely crazy and awesome |
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| 23:46.23 | rot | also, a stealth-archer can finish everything, without getting hit once |
| 23:47.20 | Neffi | I agree the skill curve isn't very good. But once you load up some good mods, the it can become really damn hard |
| 23:47.38 | rot | probably yes |
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| 23:58.51 | Sintacks | 8.8GB left |
