| 00:19.00 | *** join/#wowuidev cogwheel (~Cogwheel@38.99.42.242) |
| 00:19.00 | *** join/#wowuidev cogwheel (~Cogwheel@WoWUIDev/WoWProgramming/morlando/cogwheel) |
| 00:24.19 | Neffi | Semlar: how YOU dooooin? http://i.imgur.com/0QfaIu5.jpg |
| 00:36.16 | Semlar | neffi |
| 00:36.36 | Neffi | Semlar: |
| 00:37.30 | Semlar | neffi |
| 00:39.02 | Neffi | semlar |
| 00:39.09 | Semlar | sup |
| 00:39.25 | Neffi | nuttin much |
| 00:39.30 | Neffi | readin up on fBSD 10 |
| 00:39.52 | Neffi | hoping EFI support doesnt take as long as Sandy Bridge IGP support took |
| 00:40.25 | Neffi | It's been almost 9 months since the guy implementing full EFI support was funded |
| 00:41.20 | Semlar | there's no way to get a player's guid through their name is there |
| 00:41.44 | Neffi | Define no way |
| 00:41.54 | Neffi | There's no EASY way |
| 00:42.04 | Semlar | well, when they say something in the chat it provides their guid right |
| 00:42.25 | Amarande | Neffi: isn't it only the bootloader that needs to know about EFI? |
| 00:42.32 | Neffi | but you could (1) probe all valid units and (2) constantly listen to the combat log since it provides both name and GUID |
| 00:42.32 | Neffi | Amarande: No, the kernel too |
| 00:42.44 | Amarande | ah |
| 00:42.46 | Semlar | collection isn't going to work |
| 00:42.57 | Amarande | I was thinking that all you'd need to do would be install GRUB |
| 00:43.14 | Neffi | A modern kernel should only need to know about EFI/BIOS during boot/init, but even still, any BIOS dependent code needs to be generalized, so they can support both BIOS and EFI in the same kernel |
| 00:43.23 | Neffi | And a new early-stage bootloader developed |
| 00:43.45 | Neffi | They support GPT boot in fBSD 10, so that's one small hurdle down |
| 00:44.42 | Neffi | Semlar: I see no other way than collection. You could store a mapping of all name<->GUID pairs you encounter in memory, but that still depends on collection, so you might not get a GUID for a name |
| 00:44.43 | Semlar | okay basically i want to use the player's name as a unique identifier but i also need to compress it as much as possible |
| 00:45.06 | Neffi | GUID is more compressed than a string? I dont think so |
| 00:45.17 | Semlar | you don't need the entire GUID to identify a unique player |
| 00:45.17 | kd3 | base64-encode the playername-realmname slug? |
| 00:45.19 | Neffi | Anyway, if you need compression, there's a lib specifically for that |
| 00:45.45 | Semlar | i know, i'm just working with a very limited number of characters |
| 00:45.53 | Neffi | Amarande: I don't like GRUB |
| 00:46.00 | Neffi | Why the hell is it so many megabytes!? |
| 00:46.26 | Neffi | Anyway, FreeBSD is tentatively forsaking all GPL code in the base system, so they can't just depend on GRUB for EFI support |
| 00:46.44 | Neffi | Besides, the bootloader is the easy part. Generalizing the BIOS-dependent parts of the kernel is most of the work. |
| 00:47.06 | kd3 | most of my grub2 install appears to be themes, locale, and fonts |
| 00:47.34 | Neffi | I mostly don't like it because its configuration is so damn confusing, you need a shell script to generate your config |
| 00:47.37 | Amarande | Neffi: I'm sure you can still install GRUB manually :) |
| 00:47.42 | Neffi | That's bad design IMO |
| 00:48.05 | Neffi | Gummiboot, now that's an example of a wonderful config layout |
| 00:49.21 | Neffi | Semlar: What actually are you doing that you're working with limited chars? |
| 00:53.13 | Amarande | as for FreeBSD having trouble with GPT, that's actually a lot more understandable than any other OS I've ever used |
| 00:53.35 | Neffi | It doesn't have trouble. It just didn't support it. Now it does. |
| 00:53.36 | Amarande | as I recall, FreeBSD basically rolls its own as far as disk partitions go |
| 00:53.46 | Neffi | Correction: It didn't support BOOTING off it |
| 00:54.18 | Neffi | FreeBSD works just like any other OS. It just uses different terminology, Amarande. It calls them "slices". Same thing. |
| 00:54.19 | Amarande | like, with other OS's, you always had to use the underlying, generic partition paradigm to make partitions |
| 00:54.45 | Amarande | whereas with FreeBSD, you generally made one giant partition for FreeBSD and then *it partitions within that* |
| 00:54.46 | Neffi | Oh, that might be different than |
| 00:55.01 | Neffi | I admit ignorance on the specifics of disk management in the OSes |
| 00:55.04 | Arrowmaster | sounds like a volume manager |
| 00:55.14 | Arrowmaster | like lvm |
| 00:55.18 | Neffi | I believe it is like one, Arrowmaster. I never looked into it. |
| 00:55.18 | Amarande | Neffi: only the encompassing partition is visible outside of FreeBSD itself, generally |
| 00:55.22 | Neffi | But it does predate LVM. |
| 00:55.55 | Neffi | Ah OK. I skimmed through all that info, but now I see Amarande. So it is a super simplistic implementation of volume management. |
| 00:56.31 | Neffi | I see why they use the term "slice". Because it's not a partition, so they don't want to confuse you. |
| 00:56.47 | Amarande | I presume it might have had some kind of conflict with GPT (since that is what GPT itself does so MBR-based programs don't puke on the drive) |
| 00:57.17 | Neffi | I doubt it necessarily conflicts. It's just a matter of making the disk system aware of GPT. |
| 00:57.35 | Neffi | No reason you can't put your slices in a GPT container partition, instead of an MBR one |
| 00:57.56 | Neffi | The actual volume manager probably didn't change at all |
| 00:58.12 | Amarande | What I mean is, GPT itself creates a container partition for MBR compatibility |
| 00:58.23 | Neffi | Oh, that it does now |
| 00:58.29 | Neffi | The protective MBR, a false partition |
| 00:58.39 | Amarande | So the FreeBSD partition would be a container *within* a container |
| 00:58.45 | Neffi | Or a container partition, depending on how ignorant the code looking at the disk is |
| 00:58.46 | Arrowmaster | it can optionally fake an msdos style partiton but its not required |
| 00:58.50 | Amarande | which is probably why it was a slow matter to develop compatibility, I'm going to surmise |
| 00:59.09 | Neffi | Amarande: Technically, the protective MBR isn't a container partition. It's a false one. |
| 00:59.30 | kd3 | I thought that was the design spec for gpt... a fake msdos partition that spans the entire disk for non-gpt tools, then everything else in the gpt headers |
| 00:59.30 | Neffi | Because on disks larger than 2 TiB, it only creates that fake partition for the first 2 TiB, regardless of how large the actual GPT partitions are. |
| 00:59.35 | Amarande | i.e., the bootloader and kernel look for partitions, they see the MBR "partition" and are "WTF is my partition? *panic*" am I right? |
| 00:59.50 | Neffi | So on a 4 TB drive with 1 large partition, the protective MBR is only encasing half the actual content. So it's not a container at all. |
| 01:00.07 | Arrowmaster | my stuff is GPT without the fake msdos partition |
| 01:00.47 | Neffi | I didn't know protective MBR was optional. Wasn't it implemented for safety, so poorly coded/naive MBR-only applications don't destroy your disk when they can't find a valid MBR? |
| 01:00.57 | Neffi | "hey this disk doesn't even have an MBR, let's fix that!" |
| 01:01.16 | Amarande | ahhhh, the old voodoo days |
| 01:01.23 | Amarande | remember fun stuff like LIL-? :) |
| 01:01.32 | Neffi | Old? I'd venture to bet a lot of software on all our systems are that naive |
| 01:01.46 | Neffi | They're just naive about the newer technologies |
| 01:01.54 | Neffi | err, "coded for" |
| 01:02.31 | Neffi | And no I don't =/ I got into *nix only a few years ago. I've been a Windows user for the past.. 18 years? |
| 01:02.58 | Amarande | Neffi: there seems to be a lower prevalence of immediate catastrophe, though |
| 01:03.01 | Amarande | (now, ongoing, hair-pulling, low level catastrophe, that's another matter. (... stupid Seagate ...)) |
| 01:05.42 | Neffi | Oh nice, FreeBSD officially has binary package management http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-pkg/2013-October/000107.html |
| 01:05.51 | Neffi | And not in the hypothetical sense, either |
| 01:06.15 | Neffi | Kinda nice that they chose the dual route -- ports if you want to compile, remote packages if you don't |
| 01:10.18 | jleclanche | Im still convinced arch has one of the best package management setups out there |
| 01:11.08 | jleclanche | and im actively trying to improve it but it's hard getting the point across when the point is "let's be more compatible with other distros" |
| 01:15.38 | Neffi | I really like Pacman. To be honest, I think its the single most redeeming feature of Arch. |
| 01:16.32 | bleeter | probably old but http://store.steampowered.com/steamos/ ('Beta is here') |
| 01:16.54 | Neffi | But the community is often caustic. Breaking changes don't necessarily happen all the time, but they have no reservations about doing it often. The wiki is sometimes great, but often bad, misleading, incorrect and inconsistent with itself. |
| 01:17.19 | Neffi | Arch is a distro that I've wanted to like time and time again, and I often find myself wondering why I want to. |
| 01:18.40 | Neffi | Their wiki definitely has more information than any other distro's resources, but I find I have to take every single thing with a grain of salt, because a majority of the info is outdated, or written by somebody who didn't know the proper way to do things -- or, like I said, is inconsistent and misleading, so you're prone to fucking up the advice they give you to no fault of your own |
| 01:20.16 | Neffi | If I decide to use a *nix again, I think I'll just go with FreeBSD, being that things like EFI are coming very soon, package management is going to be much better in 10, and support for modern hardware is fairly good right now |
| 01:21.39 | jleclanche | Neffi: http://dpaste.com/1504182/ |
| 01:21.40 | jleclanche | :) |
| 01:21.58 | Neffi | heh |
| 01:22.46 | Neffi | Arch has its share of people that do good, but it's got a large share of trolls and assholes |
| 01:23.19 | jleclanche | i like arch for pacman |
| 01:23.34 | jleclanche | and for its philosophy, but thats more personal taste |
| 01:23.46 | jleclanche | pacman and the whole package management setup is objectively *good* |
| 01:23.55 | Neffi | Like I said, I really like Pacman. I don't think any other distro can touch Arch for package management |
| 01:24.01 | jleclanche | aye |
| 01:24.17 | Neffi | Gentoo is kind of good, but USE flags are quirky because of the fact that they need to be written out to a file to be practical |
| 01:24.39 | Neffi | It's weird that their init system works purely on the CLI, but their USE flags and many pkg features require file edits |
| 01:24.53 | Neffi | If Gentoo overhauled those details, they might be able to match Pacman |
| 01:25.05 | bleeter | I'm weird, I like Yast2 |
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| 01:25.40 | Neffi | But then again why the hell doesn't Gentoo ship a damned EFI-aware boot disk yet? It's like they want to fade into obscurity even more |
| 01:26.04 | Neffi | "just use another distro's boot disk! or jump through hoops to boot the first time, THEN you can fix your bootloader" |
| 01:26.45 | jleclanche | Neffi: i dont know about "matching" pacman |
| 01:27.16 | jleclanche | anytime i talk to anyone even somewhat related to package management, i want to burst into a series of "How can you not SEE this" |
| 01:27.21 | Neffi | It's also cool that Arch ships a proper EFI aware disk that can install both x86 and amd64 from one ISO. That's really cool. But I don't like the install scripts. I don't think a curses installer is much to ask for. |
| 01:27.33 | jleclanche | they used to have one |
| 01:27.37 | Neffi | I know |
| 01:27.40 | jleclanche | it wasnt updated so yeah |
| 01:27.55 | Neffi | Instead of writing a new one, they put their effort into writing a chroot install script |
| 01:27.58 | jleclanche | i think its more a lack of manpower that prevents a curses installer to be written and maintained |
| 01:28.02 | Neffi | That's a usability regression IMO |
| 01:28.05 | jleclanche | so in that sense, a curses installer is too much to ask for |
| 01:28.19 | Neffi | Every other distro does it. |
| 01:28.23 | Neffi | (almost) |
| 01:30.18 | Neffi | A lot of Arch users claim Arch is for people with Linux knowhow, so they can get away with no GUI installer. I think it's perfectly fine that it's oriented towards people that know how to use Linux and the CLI, but it's still a PITA to have to reference a wiki page to get through their install process. |
| 01:30.36 | jleclanche | yeah i kinda agree |
| 01:31.05 | Neffi | I can use Linux for years, and still forget a step in the install process. That's a bitch. |
| 01:31.22 | jleclanche | especially when the step is grub-install -o /boot/grub.cfg |
| 01:31.29 | Neffi | god-damn grub |
| 01:31.46 | Neffi | Have I mentioned lately how much I like Gummiboot and EFI? lol |
| 01:31.49 | jleclanche | every fucking time. |
| 01:31.53 | jleclanche | gummiboot? |
| 01:31.58 | Amarande | disk? people still use those? |
| 01:32.01 | Neffi | A beautiful EFI boot manager |
| 01:32.27 | Neffi | With it, I don't have to cross my fingers when I reboot for the first time, in hopes that grub didn't fuck up somehow |
| 01:32.52 | Neffi | Its config files are stupidly commonsense. Like somebody finally remembered how to make proper config design. |
| 01:33.26 | Semlar | i like how you still can't sort curseforge by "last updated" |
| 01:33.37 | jleclanche | i had the... urgh... "pleasure" to deal with ejabberd's config files |
| 01:33.38 | Neffi | It's not a bootloader though. It only executes EFI images, so you need to have a EFI_STUB kernel. Which is fine, because Arch's kernels are EFI_STUB |
| 01:33.57 | jleclanche | it uses erlang-like syntax but-not-quite-erlang |
| 01:34.02 | jleclanche | well |
| 01:34.04 | jleclanche | used |
| 01:34.13 | jleclanche | they came to their senses in the last update and use yaml now |
| 01:34.48 | Amarande | and speaking of OS's, win 8.2 and later need to have the option of coming on a usb stick |
| 01:34.57 | Neffi | jleclanche: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Gummiboot#Basic_Configuration <- that's how you do a proper, human-modifiable config |
| 01:35.23 | jleclanche | thats decent i guess |
| 01:35.46 | Neffi | Each bootloader entry is its own file, in a very simple format. No markup, no special syntax. |
| 01:36.03 | jleclanche | that is neat |
| 01:36.11 | Arrowmaster | debian sorta does that |
| 01:36.16 | jleclanche | so does gummiboot work with bios? |
| 01:36.23 | Neffi | No, it's an EFI boot manager |
| 01:36.44 | jleclanche | i guess ill have to try it when i switch to EFI |
| 01:37.03 | Neffi | The EFI starts Gummiboot, then Gummiboot lets you execute other EFI images. So it only works with EFI, and only with kernels that are valid EFI images. |
| 01:37.31 | Neffi | But it does detect the Windows EFI bootloader and adds an option for it |
| 01:37.46 | Neffi | Arrowmaster: Doesn't Debian use GRUB? |
| 01:38.10 | Arrowmaster | yeah, i wasnt fully understanding what you were talking about |
| 01:38.37 | Neffi | http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/gummiboot/ explains it better than I am, I think |
| 01:40.02 | Arrowmaster | http://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse/discussions/1/648814395741989999/ |
| 01:40.26 | Neffi | Oh wow, they used Debian? |
| 01:40.44 | Semlar | it needs a 500gb hard drive? just how big is this |
| 01:40.57 | jleclanche | Arrowmaster: wow, im so glad its a debian fork |
| 01:40.59 | jleclanche | and not ubuntu |
| 01:41.02 | Arrowmaster | yeah |
| 01:41.10 | jleclanche | ~valve++ |
| 01:41.18 | jleclanche | hm |
| 01:41.20 | jleclanche | ~karma valve |
| 01:41.20 | purl | valve has karma of 1 |
| 01:41.21 | Neffi | Semlar: It's probably not more than a few gigs by itself. I imagine they mention that because game installs. |
| 01:42.04 | Amarande | Yeah, I'm presuming they want to make sure you have ample space for games so people don't complain "well you said it was supposed to work just fine with (space)!" |
| 01:42.16 | Neffi | It's nice that they went ahead and said "64-bit only" |
| 01:42.56 | Arrowmaster | if you have a 32bit processor, its too fucking old |
| 01:42.57 | Amarande | Keep in mind, even the most obviously online of games still have to mention "INTERNET CONNECTION REQUIRED" |
| 01:43.00 | Amarande | like, say, WoW, heh |
| 01:43.22 | Amarande | and the frosted cake shown on the cake mix box has to say "SERVING SUGGESTION" or some moron gets the thought that frosting is included |
| 01:44.50 | Amarande | I'm surprised you don't hear about people who buy software and they're like "wait, this doesn't include a computer?" :P |
| 01:45.16 | jleclanche | theres an obvious reason you dont hear about those people |
| 01:45.33 | jleclanche | ill give you some time to figure it out. |
| 01:45.35 | Amarande | Although apparently quite a lot of people did think that MS "surface pro essentials" deal included the tablet |
| 01:45.41 | Neffi | jleclanche: haha |
| 01:45.42 | Amarande | even people who were otherwise pretty familiar with tech |
| 01:46.10 | Amarande | (for that one I blame Best Buy, since the closest thing that's like to evoke in people's minds is "Laptop Essentials Bundle", and those actually DO include a laptop.) |
| 01:49.47 | Amarande | wtf valve. |
| 01:49.54 | Amarande | nvidia-only ... that'll turn off a lot of early adopters :| |
| 01:50.01 | Arrowmaster | no its not |
| 01:50.14 | Neffi | drivers aren't ready yet. read the whole page |
| 01:50.15 | Amarande | Arrowmaster: "NVIDIA graphics card (AMD and Intel graphics support coming soon)" |
| 01:50.16 | Arrowmaster | if you want to game on linux you have an nvidia card |
| 01:50.28 | Neffi | AMD and Intel support will be there, but Arrowmaster is right, you want NVidia to game on Linux |
| 01:50.41 | Neffi | AMD drivers for *nix suck, and Intel GPUs are not performant |
| 01:50.45 | Amarande | Arrowmaster: I'm thinking of the number of people who were possibly thinking about an ultra-light set-top-box sized build to be their steamos box |
| 01:50.52 | Arrowmaster | intel is usable but the cards are weak, amd can eat a bag of dicks |
| 01:51.08 | Amarande | and, atm, that's apparently not possible (you can't usually fit STB form factor without an IGP, and the only IGPs are ... *drum roll* ... AMD and Intel) |
| 01:51.22 | Neffi | it's still beta |
| 01:51.30 | Neffi | drivers will probably be ready for release |
| 01:51.43 | Amarande | although there might be something like a GT 620 that you can get in low profile that you can use with it, perhaps |
| 01:51.57 | Amarande | then again, an APU or Intel IGP is probably better than a GT 620, LOL |
| 01:52.22 | Arrowmaster | and steamos has iceweasel in the repos |
| 01:52.32 | Neffi | maybe an APU, I dunno, but not an Intel IGP. And an AMD card for Linux is a bad idea either way |
| 01:53.04 | Neffi | But if SteamOS creates the demand, maybe AMD will step up their Linux game |
| 01:53.24 | Arrowmaster | they better step up their game ahead of time |
| 01:53.36 | Arrowmaster | once the demand is created they are fucked if they arent ready |
| 01:53.39 | Neffi | Recent history suggests they won't |
| 01:54.03 | Neffi | At least they're making money off their custom APU sales with PS4 and xbone, so they'll last long enough to be relevant down the line |
| 01:54.13 | Arrowmaster | yeah |
| 01:54.30 | Neffi | AMD/ATi used to be so awesome =( |
| 01:55.47 | Amarande | Yeah, if you actually have a card on Linux, it ought to be nVidia |
| 01:56.18 | Amarande | the main thing that made me shake my head about starting with nVidia-only is more, like I said, the slim STB form factor that a lot of people are surely looking forward to using |
| 01:56.32 | Amarande | which is basically, well, easily workable with ... anything but nVidia, LOL |
| 01:56.57 | Amarande | since there are practically no really decent video cards that fit the required low profile |
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| 01:57.50 | Neffi | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:57.57 | Amarande | actually, I can see AMD catching up to a degree at some distant future point, just how much depends on how big a hurdle it actually proves to be for Intel |
| 01:58.03 | Amarande | the critical point is Cannonlake |
| 01:58.23 | Neffi | Cannonlake? |
| 01:58.49 | bleeter | will be fun to see if SteamOS gets hacked for ARM+Mali foo |
| 01:59.03 | Neffi | bleeter: the runtime is a binary blob |
| 01:59.19 | Neffi | You'd need something like QEMU and lol that's not gonna happen |
| 01:59.25 | Amarande | Neffi: we have Broadwell next (14nm shrink of Haswell), then Skylake, and then there's Cannonlake (formerly Skymont, the 10nm shrink of Skylake) |
| 01:59.36 | Amarande | the critical part of that is the whole 10nm part |
| 01:59.39 | Neffi | Ah, I knew it by Skymont |
| 01:59.46 | Neffi | Why is that so critical? |
| 02:00.02 | Amarande | because 10nm is pretty much the very edge of existence in terms of how far silicon can go |
| 02:00.10 | Neffi | That's not true |
| 02:00.24 | Neffi | Intel has been R&Ding techniques for post-10nm for a while |
| 02:00.24 | Amarande | it remains to be seen if Intel will successfully fab at that scale or if they'll be forced to re-research materials etc. |
| 02:00.37 | Neffi | I'm sure Intel has plans on the table |
| 02:00.52 | Neffi | It's fucking Intel. Even if everyone else hits a brick wall, they won't. |
| 02:00.55 | Amarande | (one of the main concerns seems to be that while you might be able to fab Si at 10nm, it's uncertain if the chip will function properly or if there will be too many errors caused by electron tunneling) |
| 02:01.29 | Neffi | The whole node size brick wall thing, Moore's law ending, is stupid. It's not gonna happen, just like it didn't happen years ago |
| 02:01.50 | Neffi | There are other ways to solve it |
| 02:01.51 | Amarande | well, actually, Moore's Law *will* end |
| 02:01.59 | Neffi | Not yet it won't |
| 02:02.01 | Amarande | unless quantum computing turns out to be viable on a commercial desktop scale |
| 02:02.22 | Amarande | there's only so small we can go before every feature is a single atom wide, and you can't go smaller than that :) |
| 02:02.35 | Neffi | And 10nm is not there yet |
| 02:02.47 | Amarande | after 10nm, apparently a new material will be required |
| 02:02.51 | Neffi | We can also go up, stacking features into the third dimension |
| 02:02.52 | Amarande | but even that will only buy a few more nodes |
| 02:03.31 | Amarande | for one, except for graphene, all the proposed materials to get below 10nm seem to involve *heavier* elements than Si |
| 02:04.12 | Amarande | there's also the matter that a lot of said materials (III-V semiconductors) are deadly toxic |
| 02:04.20 | Neffi | I'm not concerned. Let Intel, and TSMC and Samsung and (...) be concerned. |
| 02:04.31 | Neffi | It's their problem to solve, and they either solve it or fail to their competitors |
| 02:04.36 | Amarande | But then, given that apparently they use chlorine trifluoride at Foxconn and friends, that's probably a minor little quibble LOL |
| 02:05.28 | Neffi | Chip fabs make too much damn money. The industry is too big. Nobody can afford to give up and say "progressing further is too hard!" |
| 02:05.43 | Neffi | It never stopped the best engineers before, it won't this time |
| 02:05.47 | Amarande | but in the case of III-V, I don't just mean they use deadly toxic chemicals to etch |
| 02:05.54 | Amarande | I mean *the chips themselves* are made of deadly toxic chemicals |
| 02:05.59 | Neffi | nice |
| 02:06.07 | Amarande | (that will be fun for overclockers I'm sure, given that they'll have to go out of their way to prevent delidding) |
| 02:06.15 | Neffi | (Silicon is toxic too) |
| 02:06.20 | Neffi | IIRC |
| 02:06.33 | Amarande | Neffi: by deadly toxic we're talking some of the III-V's have a 4 in the blue box |
| 02:06.51 | Neffi | I'm not big on chemistry -- or safety |
| 02:06.58 | Neffi | but that doesnt sound good |
| 02:06.58 | Amarande | probably because most of them contain arsenic, heh |
| 02:07.54 | Amarande | but yeah, given that they use ClF3 in chip fabbing, the toxicity of the chip material is probably a minor concern. :) |
| 02:08.08 | Neffi | meh |
| 02:09.29 | Neffi | My biggest concern? |
| 02:09.39 | Neffi | That chicken francese was fucking amazing and I have no more |
| 02:10.22 | pompy | make more |
| 02:11.11 | Neffi | I'm good with sauce and meatballs and hamburgers. Not so much with dishes like chicken francese. |
| 02:11.26 | Amarande | I'm not even sure what chicken francese is made with |
| 02:11.28 | Neffi | It's a simple recipe that's so easy to fuck up, it's hard to come by the good stuff |
| 02:11.43 | Neffi | Chicken, broth, lemon juice, spices |
| 02:12.19 | Neffi | If made properly, the meat is moist to the point of saturation. Put some mashed potatoes on the side and it's halfway to soup. So fucking delicious. |
| 02:16.26 | Amarande | ah |
| 02:16.32 | Amarande | at that point I probably would just make soup *shrug* |
| 02:16.51 | airtonix | Amarande: protip, when a dish has the word chicken in it, it's really made of cats |
| 02:17.01 | airtonix | old french trick |
| 02:17.26 | airtonix | or was it italian? |
| 02:17.50 | airtonix | point is, "chicken like substance" |
| 02:18.39 | Amarande | so I guess the most compact practical steamOS box at the moment then would be the Lian Li Cube |
| 02:19.07 | Neffi | airtonix: Chinese/Korean |
| 02:19.28 | airtonix | Amarande: no. |
| 02:19.36 | Neffi | Amarande: It's more that chicken absorbs the broth very well, and it's best served with a lot of broth, because the broth/potato mixture is god-damn tasty |
| 02:20.37 | Neffi | Amarande: Silverstone FT03-mini or PC-Q25. Best ITX cases in my eyes. Node 304 is also cool. |
| 02:20.40 | airtonix | Amarande: actually, the smallest enclosure you can stick a i7 in is this : http://www.mini-box.com/M350-universal-mini-itx-enclosure |
| 02:21.05 | Amarande | airtonix: I was thinking of the smallest nice enclosure that's still large enough to accept a proper nVidia card |
| 02:21.15 | Amarande | the Lian Li Cube = PC-V351 btw |
| 02:21.46 | airtonix | Amarande: i have one of these: http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=25_30_394&products_id=15809&zenid=85558352a5a2a9121746f3f7f545a00c |
| 02:21.46 | Neffi | That's be the Node 304. It can fit the longest GPU you can throw in it. But it can't use a modular PSU, unless you go with Silverstone's SFX PSU (which has an ATX adapter) |
| 02:22.42 | Neffi | I'll take a little more bulk though. The FT03-mini is damn beautiful and a nice piece of engineering. I'd love to build a desktop in that. And I really want to do a server inside a PC-Q25. Tiny ITX box with 5 hot-swap bays! |
| 02:23.35 | Neffi | ITX presents such a cool challenge to fit a monster in a tiny box. I'd build everything in ITX if I could |
| 02:25.48 | airtonix | http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=25_30_394&products_id=25129 |
| 02:26.32 | Neffi | You seemingly CAN fit the best GPU in a PC-Q25, but the airflow will leave your CPU overclock low. Its CPU cooling options are totally gimped, pretty much relegated to non-overclocking. |
| 02:26.39 | Neffi | The GPU is fed by its own vent though |
| 02:27.09 | Amarande | PC-V351 will let you fit pretty much any GPU, the only thing that appears to really be limited is that you have to use a MicroATX mobo, natch |
| 02:27.41 | Neffi | With Asus' Impact mobo, I'd rather do ITX than mATX |
| 02:27.47 | Amarande | hmm |
| 02:27.53 | Amarande | don't most boxes that take mATX also take ITX? |
| 02:28.04 | airtonix | Neffi: ehh the q25 is ok, but unless the hdd hotswap bays are facing the front then it's a pain the arse |
| 02:28.05 | Neffi | I wouldn't be comfortable having no clearance between GPUs, so I'm not gonna SLI on mATX. Might as well go ITX and have an even smaller build. And nicer cases. |
| 02:28.24 | Amarande | mobo design seems to be pretty good at keeping the holes in the same relative positions, just using more or fewer depending on size |
| 02:28.36 | Neffi | airtonix: It seems odd at first, but the side panel is screwless. It pops right off. It makes a lot of sense for hot swap. |
| 02:28.45 | Neffi | The layout is perfect for a mini server, but not for much else |
| 02:28.47 | airtonix | no you want front facing... i know. |
| 02:28.55 | airtonix | i have a side facing. it's a pain in the arse. |
| 02:29.01 | Neffi | I suppose |
| 02:29.17 | Neffi | I'd put up with the inconvenience on the rare occassion of a failure, to have a tiny case that's almost perfect |
| 02:29.22 | Neffi | It's nice looking |
| 02:29.38 | airtonix | i don't see why i has to be ugly and hav front facing bays |
| 02:29.58 | Neffi | It doesn't have to be. There's just a limited selection of small cases with hot swap. |
| 02:30.04 | Neffi | PC-Q25 is one of the nicest ones |
| 02:30.22 | airtonix | http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=25_30_394&products_id=25590&zenid=85558352a5a2a9121746f3f7f545a00c |
| 02:30.34 | Neffi | that's not ITX |
| 02:30.41 | airtonix | who cares |
| 02:30.51 | Neffi | I have a soft spot for things that are small, understated or subtle, but pack a punch |
| 02:31.10 | Neffi | --and that sounds Freudian, but it's not! |
| 02:31.22 | airtonix | so you don't have an xbox then? |
| 02:31.30 | Neffi | nah |
| 02:31.44 | Neffi | I like the idea of having a powerful server that can sit comfortable on an end table |
| 02:32.18 | airtonix | what about the q12 |
| 02:32.32 | airtonix | looks like a ps3/4 |
| 02:32.48 | Neffi | Q12 was my consideration for an HTPC |
| 02:33.13 | Neffi | I figure if I wanna build a server, I'm gonna use it as a NAS too. I want some good HDD storage options |
| 02:33.34 | TC-Work | Thats what my computer is for. |
| 02:34.23 | TC-Work | 10TB and climbing |
| 02:34.31 | Neffi | hory shet |
| 02:34.38 | Neffi | airtonix: Any experience with the Q12? |
| 02:34.56 | Neffi | I was toying with the idea of building an HTPC as a gift for my father, and the Q12 looks nice and small, and out of the way |
| 02:37.20 | airtonix | i use that first minitx box i linked. it has maximum airflow |
| 02:37.37 | airtonix | and i just use it as an xbmc client in the loungeroom |
| 02:39.51 | airtonix | http://www.omcentre.com.au/typo3temp/pics/3b75eb6b0e.jpg |
| 02:39.59 | airtonix | not sure you can buy that motherboard anymore |
| 02:40.01 | Neffi | Atom? |
| 02:40.13 | Neffi | You can always find embedded Atom boards, though |
| 02:40.15 | airtonix | Asus AT5IONT-I |
| 02:40.22 | airtonix | atom and nvidia ion |
| 02:40.33 | airtonix | passively cooled |
| 02:40.35 | Neffi | I was worried about the performance of Atom. Does it feel fluid with XMBC? Does it handle 1080p H.264? |
| 02:41.07 | airtonix | it's fine |
| 02:41.13 | airtonix | but that's all it does |
| 02:41.45 | airtonix | the problem with using a i3 or large is that you need active cooling, large power supply, then the case gets big and noisy |
| 02:41.56 | Neffi | Also, are there any options for YouTube and Netflix with XBMC? |
| 02:42.04 | airtonix | youtube yes |
| 02:42.09 | airtonix | don't know about netflix |
| 02:42.18 | Neffi | I figure that's wishful thinking |
| 02:42.42 | airtonix | http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=Add-on:XBMC_Flicks_-_Netflix_for_XBMC |
| 02:42.50 | Neffi | I looked at the Q12 specifically because it *could* house a socketed Haswell chip |
| 02:42.56 | Neffi | Since it fits an SFX PSU |
| 02:43.22 | Neffi | If an Atom performs well, I'd go with that though |
| 02:44.52 | airtonix | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3eOBZmpHEg |
| 02:47.59 | airtonix | Neffi: your other options is the get an android hdmi stick and just run netflix from that |
| 02:48.06 | jleclanche | Aaaaahh |
| 02:48.08 | airtonix | xbmc is also available for android |
| 02:48.10 | jleclanche | this is giving me a headache |
| 02:48.31 | Neffi | Git wiki? |
| 02:48.40 | Neffi | That's an interesting idea, airtonix |
| 02:49.00 | airtonix | Neffi: yeah i have about three android hdmi dongles |
| 02:49.23 | airtonix | Neffi: two running 4.0 jellybean |
| 02:49.42 | Neffi | The thing I liked about building an HTPC, is I can run straight XBMC and buy a remote control |
| 02:49.47 | Neffi | Run it like a set top box |
| 02:49.49 | airtonix | then i use yatse on my phone to remote control it |
| 02:50.00 | Neffi | Especially useful for my father, who's so computer illiterate it's funny |
| 02:50.22 | airtonix | xbmc and remotes are dumb |
| 02:50.37 | Neffi | Oh? Isn't the GUI designed around them? |
| 02:50.43 | airtonix | not really |
| 02:51.08 | airtonix | you need a good theme to start with i guess |
| 02:51.13 | Neffi | I don't see him using a keyboard/mouse well, or a smartphone |
| 02:51.23 | airtonix | doesn't already have one? |
| 02:51.25 | Neffi | I'd want to set it up with a remove control |
| 02:51.26 | jleclanche | Neffi: dealing with revparse(). it seems a little broken |
| 02:51.44 | Neffi | He's never really used a computer, and his "smartphone" is hardly smart |
| 02:51.50 | Neffi | And he has lots of problems trying to use it |
| 02:52.04 | airtonix | Neffi: http://www.mwave.com.au/product/internet-smart-tv-hdmi-dongle-android-40-ab47865 |
| 02:52.40 | airtonix | Neffi: i wouldn't get one of those until one comes out that lets you put cyanogenmod on it |
| 02:53.01 | Neffi | I might still go the XMBC + build option, because of the storage space it allows |
| 02:53.24 | airtonix | i just use my server, or you hook a 2tb usb hdd up to the dongle |
| 02:54.31 | airtonix | http://www.engadget.com/2013/11/01/plair-2-hdmi-wireless-streaming-dongle-runs-android/ |
| 02:54.37 | Arrowmaster | is xbmc on the play store? |
| 02:58.05 | airtonix | http://www.techradar.com/au/news/television/kogan-announces-agora-smart-tv-hdmi-dongle-refresh-1186388 |
| 02:58.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (amarande@24-151-100-63.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 02:58.18 | airtonix | Arrowmaster: no you have to download the apk from the xbmc site |
| 02:59.21 | jleclanche | Neffi: sweeeeeet. Everything is working. |
| 02:59.27 | Neffi | awesome |
| 02:59.28 | jleclanche | Neffi: at this point i got a pretty decently working wiki |
| 02:59.32 | bleeter | yatse ftw |
| 02:59.37 | Neffi | How's the performance, jleclanche? |
| 02:59.47 | jleclanche | uh ive no idea, its still super-minimal |
| 02:59.50 | Neffi | I imagine Git is a little bit of a bottleneck |
| 02:59.53 | jleclanche | its not even sort of for production |
| 02:59.58 | jleclanche | no, git is surprisingly fast |
| 03:00.02 | Neffi | Still, it's a promising idea |
| 03:00.21 | Neffi | You should host Wowpedia's successor on it =P |
| 03:00.29 | jleclanche | pygit2 is a bit more of a bottleneck and obviously this sort of thing wouldnt be appropriate for wikipedia or something |
| 03:00.30 | jleclanche | but yeah |
| 03:00.41 | jleclanche | long term id like to test it with a big wiki |
| 03:00.48 | airtonix | Neffi: http://www.kogan.com/au/buy/agora-smart-tv-quad-core-hdmi-dongle/ |
| 03:01.07 | Neffi | Generate a huge Lorem Ipsum wiki |
| 03:01.18 | bleeter | bogan ipsum! |
| 03:01.23 | Neffi | airtonix: these things are getting popular, I see |
| 03:01.27 | airtonix | jleclanche: i can use it and point it at a github repo right? |
| 03:01.35 | bleeter | http://www.boganipsum.com/ |
| 03:01.38 | jleclanche | airtonix: what do you mean? |
| 03:01.48 | airtonix | jleclanche: well it uses git as a data store yeah? |
| 03:02.03 | jleclanche | airtonix: yes, but i dont understand what you ask about github |
| 03:02.07 | Neffi | bleeter: pfft http://slipsum.com/ |
| 03:02.21 | jleclanche | bleeter: wow. |
| 03:02.29 | airtonix | jleclanche: i could run it on heroku, and point it at a github repo as its data store |
| 03:02.36 | jleclanche | airtonix: oh; yeah sure |
| 03:02.56 | jleclanche | airtonix: only thing is it has no failsafe for any of git's more advanced features |
| 03:03.04 | jleclanche | for example it doesn't expect branches or anything like that |
| 03:03.23 | airtonix | jleclanche: ok for your next trick, replicate pygit in javascript. k'go |
| 03:03.25 | bleeter | Neffi: that's not enAU. fail! |
| 03:03.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Mythor (~Mythor@185.10.48.61) |
| 03:03.41 | jleclanche | airtonix: if you want git *write* access, you would need a hell of a cleanup on push |
| 03:03.43 | Neffi | "enAU" lol |
| 03:04.05 | Neffi | There's enUS, then there's enNONUS |
| 03:04.16 | Neffi | enNONUS doesn't matter, cuz murrica |
| 03:04.28 | airtonix | strueth! |
| 03:07.59 | bleeter | https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BaMPFpuCMAE2_ex.jpg |
| 03:08.13 | bleeter | Neffi: merka, populated by merkins |
| 03:08.19 | bleeter | geddit rite |
| 03:08.34 | Neffi | im murrican, i think i know how to murrica |
| 03:08.41 | Neffi | damn foreigners |
| 03:09.04 | airtonix | merkn* |
| 03:09.14 | Neffi | that doesnt even make sense |
| 03:09.18 | Neffi | LEARN ENGLISH |
| 03:09.20 | airtonix | like your face! |
| 03:09.32 | Neffi | my face is beautiful SON |
| 03:09.32 | bleeter | well, it's like how you can have an idea in your head that sounds great but when you say it... when you say what you think is 'murrica' it's actually coming out 'merka' etc. |
| 03:09.33 | airtonix | ~badumtish |
| 03:09.53 | airtonix | msg purl rimshot |
| 03:09.58 | airtonix | ... |
| 03:11.47 | Neffi | Wait, am I reading this right? |
| 03:11.52 | bleeter | no |
| 03:11.59 | Neffi | Heroku allows 1 CPU share and a small database for free? |
| 03:12.10 | airtonix | only 10,000 rows |
| 03:12.23 | airtonix | and ou can't use naked domains |
| 03:12.24 | Neffi | But, like, I don't see any catch. Just making sure. |
| 03:12.49 | airtonix | the catch is that 1 worker is just enough for local dev testing and saas validation |
| 03:13.00 | airtonix | beyond that you need to quickly add more workers |
| 03:13.15 | Neffi | Define just enough |
| 03:13.16 | airtonix | so for you personal resume online, it's fine. |
| 03:13.28 | airtonix | it will never survive a reddit visit |
| 03:13.45 | Neffi | But it'll let me host an offensive image for Semlar? |
| 03:14.02 | airtonix | try it |
| 03:15.02 | jleclanche | Neffi: =) http://leclan.ch:33000/history/Main_Page |
| 03:15.41 | jleclanche | hmm |
| 03:15.45 | Neffi | not loading |
| 03:15.46 | jleclanche | diffs always seem to be against head |
| 03:15.51 | Neffi | oh, there we go |
| 03:16.18 | Neffi | "This is the main page. Hurray!" |
| 03:16.21 | Neffi | a thing of beauty |
| 03:16.28 | airtonix | lol'd |
| 03:16.40 | Neffi | That's actually really damn cool |
| 03:16.49 | airtonix | jleclanche: you need authentication and authorization now |
| 03:16.57 | jleclanche | that'll come last |
| 03:16.58 | airtonix | perhaps login with github? |
| 03:17.11 | jleclanche | i need markup |
| 03:17.16 | airtonix | or something django-social-auth |
| 03:17.22 | jleclanche | this doesnt run django |
| 03:17.22 | Neffi | You need to support linebreaks now |
| 03:17.23 | jleclanche | its a flask app |
| 03:17.28 | airtonix | yeah i know |
| 03:17.31 | jleclanche | Neffi: thats part of markup |
| 03:17.38 | airtonix | it's actually called python-social-auth now |
| 03:17.45 | jleclanche | ya |
| 03:17.47 | jleclanche | not interested |
| 03:17.48 | airtonix | so not tightly coupled with django anymore |
| 03:18.02 | jleclanche | im only interested in Persona |
| 03:18.03 | Neffi | "This page cannot be deleted because it does not exist." |
| 03:18.05 | Neffi | now that's not true |
| 03:18.09 | jleclanche | Neffi: yeah noticed, i dont know why |
| 03:18.22 | jleclanche | oh i know why |
| 03:18.23 | jleclanche | file = get_file(title, "master") |
| 03:18.25 | jleclanche | path, not title |
| 03:18.26 | airtonix | jleclanche: how do you ensure an email address someone uses on persona is legit? |
| 03:18.37 | jleclanche | airtonix: i dont know, look it up |
| 03:18.45 | airtonix | jleclanche: i don't think you can |
| 03:18.56 | jleclanche | Neffi: fixt |
| 03:19.07 | Neffi | Make it a Heroku app |
| 03:19.10 | Arrowmaster | you send a confirmation email, thats the only way to ever tell if an address is legit |
| 03:19.35 | airtonix | Arrowmaster: but mozilla persona should take care of that |
| 03:21.47 | airtonix | https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Persona/FAQ#Does_Persona_guarantee_that_I_get_a_working_email_address_for_my_users.3F |
| 03:23.05 | Neffi | jleclanche: Are you just doing this as a proof of concept, or do you plan to polish and release it? |
| 03:23.24 | jleclanche | Neffi: both id say |
| 03:23.51 | jleclanche | if theres interest on it, ill improve it |
| 03:23.57 | jleclanche | but right now its just POC and fun |
| 03:24.00 | Neffi | I'm interested in it, if that counts |
| 03:24.10 | Neffi | And AFAIK it's a pretty unique idea |
| 03:24.35 | Neffi | If you get it to a polished point, I'd say it's worth putting in the wild to see if people are interested in contributing |
| 03:24.42 | jleclanche | its so unique that theres a practically identical project that has the same name |
| 03:24.43 | jleclanche | https://github.com/wikt/wikt |
| 03:24.51 | jleclanche | (tho that never went anywhere) |
| 03:25.09 | jleclanche | but yeah, the idea of a mediawiki-compatible wiki is somewhat unique |
| 03:25.24 | *** join/#wowuidev pb_ee1 (~pb_ee1@50-0-136-21.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 03:26.23 | jleclanche | diffs fixed |
| 03:26.28 | jleclanche | http://leclan.ch:33000/history/Main_Page |
| 03:26.29 | jleclanche | =) |
| 03:28.28 | jleclanche | Neffi: so what i wanted to do was to implement edit patrolling through git notes |
| 03:28.33 | jleclanche | which is insanely cool |
| 03:29.23 | jleclanche | git as a datastore backend is really damn nice |
| 03:29.42 | jleclanche | im sure it would blow up at high load but who the hell cares |
| 03:30.00 | airtonix | nothing some clustering would fix though? |
| 03:30.13 | jleclanche | heres the thing |
| 03:30.29 | jleclanche | conflicts can be taken care of through the merge system (awesome!) |
| 03:30.56 | jleclanche | but clustering git? |
| 03:31.06 | Neffi | jleclanche: your first edit war is incoming http://leclan.ch:33000/wiki/Git |
| 03:31.22 | jleclanche | see even right now |
| 03:31.29 | jleclanche | im getting high load times on some pages |
| 03:31.38 | jleclanche | because someone else is loading something |
| 03:31.40 | jleclanche | and this is on localhost |
| 03:33.24 | jleclanche | http://leclan.ch:33000/wiki/XSS |
| 03:33.26 | jleclanche | cute. |
| 03:33.40 | kd3 | lol |
| 03:34.10 | Neffi | lol |
| 03:34.26 | airtonix | umadkd3? |
| 03:34.42 | Neffi | "Are you lost, little girl?" |
| 03:34.46 | kd3 | alright. I think I've got the high-level attributes article rewrite for warlords done, up until blizz changes their mind and redoes everything: http://wowpedia.org/Attributes/Warlords |
| 03:35.03 | Neffi | http://leclan.ch:33000/diff/Git?commit=a8a08d25f94e8cbadfb9c315ae9e2ae8eb2b60ff&oldid=a8a08d25f94e8cbadfb9c315ae9e2ae8eb2b60ff^ -> click "Edit" |
| 03:35.18 | jleclanche | kd3: you pick what i work on next on the wiki |
| 03:35.33 | jleclanche | Neffi: i know, diff pages dont get a path passed to them |
| 03:36.05 | jleclanche | Neffi: there should be fixed |
| 03:36.13 | kd3 | hm... how bot-editable is the wiki? |
| 03:36.21 | Neffi | perfect |
| 03:36.44 | jleclanche | kd3: well long term itll have a mediawiki-compatible API |
| 03:36.51 | jleclanche | as well as a better api. |
| 03:36.54 | kd3 | ooh |
| 03:37.06 | jleclanche | basically there will be a mediawiki layer in there |
| 03:37.20 | kd3 | has been busy pounding the hell out of wowpedia again now that curse has fixed the api logins |
| 03:37.27 | jleclanche | wow they have? |
| 03:37.33 | jleclanche | i asked whatshisname to keep me updated |
| 03:37.35 | kd3 | yup. pywikibot works just fine |
| 03:37.39 | jleclanche | thank god |
| 03:37.45 | kd3 | as of the 1.21 upgrade |
| 03:37.52 | jleclanche | thank god. |
| 03:37.59 | kd3 | indeed |
| 03:38.08 | jleclanche | kd3: funny bit, this whole project started because of the gamepedia issues |
| 03:38.13 | kd3 | lol |
| 03:38.30 | jleclanche | kd3: i was thinking of being able to pull the wiki with git, editing it, committing and pushing my changes |
| 03:39.03 | jleclanche | funny bit #2, thats not even sort of in-scope of the project... as i said earlier it would require a pretty heavy check on pushes |
| 03:39.07 | jleclanche | and it kinda defeats the point |
| 03:39.09 | kd3 | neat. I've seen that before somewhere... bitbucket, I think? |
| 03:39.27 | jleclanche | bitbucket isnt a wiki |
| 03:39.52 | jleclanche | but yeah im sure ive seen something like that before |
| 03:40.11 | jleclanche | the problem with all those wikis is they dont actually implement what makes wikis neat |
| 03:40.23 | kd3 | yah |
| 03:42.41 | jleclanche | oh btw Neffi |
| 03:42.45 | jleclanche | those arent linked on there but |
| 03:42.46 | jleclanche | http://leclan.ch:33000/wiki/Special:RecentChanges |
| 03:42.58 | Shirik | the chinese! |
| 03:43.02 | Shirik | they are stealing our changes! |
| 03:43.33 | kd3 | that's uh... cn? |
| 03:43.42 | Shirik | o |
| 03:43.44 | Shirik | what's ch |
| 03:43.53 | kd3 | switzerland |
| 03:44.16 | Neffi | http://leclan.ch:33000/wiki/Special: |
| 03:44.19 | jleclanche | Neffi: http://leclan.ch:33000/wiki/Special:AllPages |
| 03:44.29 | Neffi | jleclanche: I was looking for that |
| 03:44.46 | Neffi | Might want to fix the one I just linked |
| 03:45.15 | Neffi | also on the AllPages one, click Help:Contents <- also broken |
| 03:45.25 | jleclanche | yeah no, namespaces need to be fixed entirely |
| 03:45.45 | jleclanche | i kinda jumped the gun on them |
| 03:46.43 | Shirik | builtins.ValueError |
| 03:46.45 | Shirik | well that was neat |
| 03:47.03 | Shirik | oh that's what Neffi did |
| 03:47.12 | Neffi | wat |
| 03:48.24 | Primer | PB4's fucking broken |
| 03:48.37 | Primer | if I join an in-progress bg, raid frames never fill up |
| 03:48.45 | Primer | until another roster event |
| 03:49.20 | *** join/#wowuidev ShadniX| (shadnix@p5DDFCDE6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 04:15.49 | jleclanche | Neffi: im wondering whether to implement Special pages in their namespace.. |
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| 04:16.24 | Neffi | how else would you? |
| 04:16.35 | jleclanche | have /special/allpages etc |
| 04:16.46 | jleclanche | i was going to have both tbh |
| 04:16.56 | jleclanche | have the Special namespace as a wikimedia compat |
| 04:17.12 | Neffi | You plan to do Wikimedia as a compat layer? |
| 04:17.31 | jleclanche | mediawiki, yeah |
| 04:17.47 | bluspacecow | http://www.dorkly.com/article/49077/middle-earth-psas |
| 04:17.47 | jleclanche | mediawiki markup will be its own module |
| 04:17.55 | jleclanche | mediawiki urls should be too, i suppose |
| 04:18.03 | jleclanche | but i actually like how mediawiki handles urls (mostly) |
| 04:18.06 | bluspacecow | wtf |
| 04:18.07 | bluspacecow | http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/10896219534#new-post |
| 04:18.18 | bluspacecow | y would you advocate piracy on the wow forums :( |
| 04:18.57 | Semlar | yarr |
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| 04:20.03 | Shirik | zz_Cidan: ping |
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| 04:22.44 | jleclanche | Neffi: i still dont know how to handle symlinks |
| 04:23.00 | Neffi | hmmm |
| 04:23.12 | jleclanche | er |
| 04:23.13 | jleclanche | redirects* |
| 04:23.20 | jleclanche | i cant handle them with symlinks |
| 04:23.21 | jleclanche | unless i can |
| 04:23.31 | Neffi | how contradictory |
| 04:23.31 | Semlar | 301! |
| 04:23.38 | Neffi | Semlar: 302! |
| 04:23.45 | Neffi | what are we incrementing? |
| 04:23.46 | Semlar | you're so temporary |
| 04:23.57 | Neffi | gets garbabe collected. |
| 04:24.01 | Neffi | oww |
| 04:24.04 | jleclanche | garbabes are hot |
| 04:24.12 | Neffi | >_> |
| 04:24.13 | Semlar | they're trashy |
| 04:24.31 | jleclanche | heres the thing. in mediawiki, redirects can contain a lot more than just the page they redirect to |
| 04:24.46 | jleclanche | they can contain categories for example |
| 04:25.38 | Neffi | redirect namespace? |
| 04:26.03 | jleclanche | no, that would break the whole concept of any page being able to redirect |
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| 04:27.42 | Neffi | I'm not familiar enough with Git to know if there's an easy method to let it do the work |
| 04:28.03 | Neffi | Nor am I familiar enough with Mediawiki to know how it does things |
| 04:28.09 | jleclanche | i was saying "unless i can" because internally, git implements symlink with file modes |
| 04:28.19 | jleclanche | so maybe i can have file contents *and* symlink mode |
| 04:28.27 | jleclanche | it would never work with the git client |
| 04:28.31 | jleclanche | but with libgit2 maybe it would |
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| 04:29.05 | Neffi | Well the usefulness of being Git backed, is you could treat it just like a Git repo and play with the database directly |
| 04:29.17 | Neffi | You don't wanna break that, huh? |
| 04:30.26 | jleclanche | the usefulness, to me, of this sort of wiki is that i can clone it |
| 04:30.44 | jleclanche | i wont be able to edit it (too many safety checks to be implemented; could be done, but i dont have time for that) |
| 04:30.58 | jleclanche | but being able to clone it is a huge plus |
| 04:31.18 | jleclanche | and the other interesting concept is of course using git as a datastore |
| 04:31.27 | jleclanche | in a way that it's actually meant to be used, that is |
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| 04:31.43 | jleclanche | now.. redirects having content, thats a mediawiki detail |
| 04:31.50 | jleclanche | i suppose i can sacrifice that |
| 04:32.10 | jleclanche | screw it, ill do it |
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| 04:33.35 | jleclanche | Packages (6): audit-2.3.2-3 lib32-mesa-10.0.1-1 mesa-10.0.1-1 xorg-server-1.14.5-1 xorg-server-common-1.14.5-1 xorg-server-xvfb-1.14.5-1 |
| 04:33.36 | jleclanche | ah |
| 04:33.43 | jleclanche | i didnt want to ever restart again anyway. |
| 04:35.35 | Neffi | Why do you have to restart? |
| 04:35.42 | Neffi | I see no reason to bring the kernel down for that |
| 04:35.50 | jleclanche | i said restart, not reboot |
| 04:35.56 | bluspacecow | lol |
| 04:36.00 | Neffi | >_> |
| 04:36.07 | bluspacecow | *reboots Neffi* |
| 04:36.11 | jleclanche | restart meaning any generic restart of services |
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| 04:36.24 | jleclanche | which i wont be able to do now. ever again |
| 04:36.24 | Neffi | ....thanks |
| 04:36.28 | jleclanche | cause x11 1.14. |
| 04:36.36 | bluspacecow | np |
| 04:36.43 | Neffi | I feel refreshed |
| 04:39.29 | Semlar | down there? |
| 04:40.44 | jleclanche | Neffi: heres the problem, how do i implement the ui for it |
| 04:40.52 | jleclanche | its easy in mediawiki |
| 04:40.55 | jleclanche | just edit it |
| 04:41.07 | Neffi | Semlar: http://youtu.be/ERarcencJjA |
| 04:41.20 | Neffi | I'm not sure |
| 04:41.25 | Iriel | jleclanche: are you re-implementing gollum or something? |
| 04:41.37 | jleclanche | Iriel: something similar yeah |
| 04:41.45 | Semlar | neffi do you chunder |
| 04:42.07 | jleclanche | Iriel: git-powered wiki (libgit2, pygit2, flask) |
| 04:42.12 | jleclanche | Iriel: mediawiki-compatible |
| 04:42.14 | Semlar | this could get messy |
| 04:42.15 | Neffi | wut |
| 04:42.45 | Iriel | That's why I asked about gollum, since it's a git powered wiki |
| 04:43.05 | jleclanche | gollum is a little different |
| 04:43.07 | jleclanche | but yeah |
| 04:43.11 | Semlar | neffi what's your stance on vegemite |
| 04:43.20 | Neffi | I see .ac didn't last. What's the new domain for that lovable pirate website? |
| 04:43.20 | Iriel | There's github's multiuser version too, forget |
| 04:43.45 | Semlar | .pe |
| 04:44.02 | Neffi | Semlar: I choose not to acknowledge `food` that isn't really food |
| 04:44.03 | jleclanche | Iriel: what do you mean? |
| 04:44.08 | Iriel | forget what that's called. |
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| 04:44.18 | Iriel | Well, as I understand it, github projects have a wiki, which is git backed |
| 04:44.30 | Iriel | and gollum is a "standalone" way of working on the same thing |
| 04:44.39 | Iriel | I've only used the gollum piece |
| 04:46.01 | jleclanche | yeah. |
| 04:46.14 | jleclanche | its in many ways similar to gollum |
| 04:46.23 | jleclanche | i guess i have a higher focus on actual wiki features (mediawiki-like) |
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| 04:46.41 | jleclanche | gollum focuses more on being a "project" wiki like you would have on github |
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| 04:54.18 | karl_w_w | nice one jleclanche, is fibre connection going to cost you anything? |
| 04:56.10 | jleclanche | nope |
| 04:56.14 | jleclanche | should end up being cheaper in fact |
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| 05:43.24 | Sintacks | |08:00:33 am| [Silvanas] why didnt silly blizzard just add the realm name as an extra paramter to GetGuildRosterInfo(), instead theydecided to add it to the name :/ |
| 05:43.27 | Sintacks | inb4 they change it in 5.4.2 |
| 05:43.29 | Sintacks | 5.4.3* |
| 06:08.58 | Sintacks | nodead implies exists righrt? |
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| 06:32.38 | karl_w_w | right Sintacks |
| 06:32.39 | Semlar | Sintacks: it has to exist to be considered alive |
| 06:33.35 | nevcairiel | well technically nodead meanst "not dead", something that doesnt exist is also not dead |
| 06:34.38 | nevcairiel | easy enough to test :p |
| 06:34.43 | karl_w_w | that's not true nevcairiel |
| 06:35.23 | karl_w_w | nodead means "the unit doesn't have the dead state" |
| 06:35.44 | nevcairiel | if there is no unit, it also doesnt have the dead state |
| 06:36.11 | karl_w_w | dead requires there to be a unit |
| 06:36.18 | karl_w_w | no is just a modifier to dead |
| 06:38.00 | nevcairiel | that depends how its implemented really. if dead requires a unit, one could easily implement it to always return "no, its not dead" when asked without a unit, or its implemented to never match, in any case, test it to be sure :D |
| 06:38.57 | Semlar | well, i've used nodead before and i can attest to the fact that it requires the unit to exist |
| 06:40.34 | Semlar | it means there's a unit and it's alive |
| 06:55.12 | Neffi | Sintacks: I don't believe so. At the Wowhead forums, we've always advised to use exists/harm/help in addition to [nodead], because they DO imply exists. Test it though. |
| 06:55.50 | Neffi | karl_w_w: assume dead returns bool and no is analagous to not: |
| 06:56.13 | Neffi | lua isdead=false; return not isdead |
| 06:56.49 | Neffi | wait, i confused myself |
| 07:05.40 | Semlar | y u do dis |
| 07:07.32 | Neffi | I'm tired and drinking alcohol |
| 07:08.07 | Neffi | Cool project to mull over: https://wiki.freebsd.org/IdeasPage#Improve_FreeBSD_build_system_with_Lua |
| 07:08.32 | Neffi | Well actually really tedious, but it'd be cool to have my code in FreeBSD |
| 07:26.07 | bleeter | people still use FreeBSD? I thought everyone had jumped to OpenBSD :-/ |
| 07:26.17 | bleeter | :P |
| 07:27.15 | Neffi | I think NetBSD is getting more popular than Open |
| 07:27.58 | Neffi | The onlyinterest I've seen in OpenBSD is asspies on /g/, snobs at suckless, and people from other BSD distros who want to steal their drivers |
| 07:29.37 | bleeter | Every OS Sucks |
| 07:29.45 | Neffi | this is kind of humorous https://wiki.freebsd.org/IvanVoras/BSDLUA?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=bsdlua.pdf |
| 07:29.57 | bleeter | except for AmigaOS2.x/3.x that was excellent |
| 07:30.20 | bleeter | and the BBC Micro enviornment, though I hesitate to call it an OS |
| 07:30.52 | Neffi | No, bleeter, all OSes suck |
| 07:31.01 | airtonix | just like your mum |
| 07:31.55 | Neffi | ~OS |
| 07:31.55 | purl | <bleeter> Every OS Sucks |
| 07:34.45 | bleeter | ~OS |
| 07:34.45 | purl | os is, like, '<bleeter> Every OS Sucks - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPRvc2UMeMI' |
| 07:35.04 | bleeter | crap, I can't remember nor can be bothered working out, the stuff |
| 07:35.12 | Neffi | no, purl, OS is <reply><bleeter> Every OS Sucks - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPRvc2UMeMI |
| 07:35.19 | Neffi | ~OS |
| 07:35.19 | purl | hmm... os is '<bleeter> Every OS Sucks - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPRvc2UMeMI' |
| 07:35.30 | Neffi | purl, OS is <reply><bleeter> Every OS Sucks - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPRvc2UMeMI |
| 07:35.30 | purl | ...but os is already something else... |
| 07:35.34 | Neffi | no, purl, OS is <reply><bleeter> Every OS Sucks - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPRvc2UMeMI |
| 07:35.59 | Neffi | ~OS |
| 07:35.59 | purl | <bleeter> Every OS Sucks - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPRvc2UMeMI |
| 07:36.21 | bleeter | Neffi++ |
| 07:36.32 | Neffi | ~karma Neffi |
| 07:36.32 | purl | neffi has karma of 1 |
| 07:36.39 | Neffi | getting up there |
| 07:42.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Tech_Talk (~quassel@192.241.205.5) |
| 07:47.34 | bleeter | Google have purchased Boston Dynamics |
| 07:48.29 | Neffi | I for one welcome our new Android overlords |
| 07:48.59 | bleeter | Neffi++ |
| 07:49.23 | Neffi | ~karma Neffi |
| 07:49.23 | purl | neffi has karma of 1 |
| 07:49.30 | Neffi | ~lart purl |
| 07:49.30 | purl | pulls out his louisville slugger and uses neffi's head to break the homerun record |
| 07:49.52 | Neffi | sighs. |
| 07:50.13 | bleeter | oh |
| 07:50.20 | bleeter | ~Neffi++ |
| 07:50.25 | bleeter | ~karma neffi |
| 07:50.25 | purl | neffi has karma of 2 |
| 07:50.33 | bleeter | I owe you one... so |
| 07:50.35 | bleeter | ~Neffi++ |
| 07:50.40 | bleeter | ~karma neffi |
| 07:50.40 | purl | neffi has karma of 3 |
| 07:50.43 | bleeter | :D |
| 07:50.46 | Neffi | :D |
| 07:51.00 | karl_w_w | http://www.dominos.com.au/menu/pizzas/P229TX |
| 07:51.03 | karl_w_w | facepalms |
| 07:51.22 | Neffi | wtf is a wagyu |
| 07:51.59 | Neffi | also who the fuck measures caloric intake in kJ? |
| 07:52.05 | bleeter | karl_w_w: cow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagyu |
| 07:52.10 | karl_w_w | the type of beef of which kobe is a variety |
| 07:52.16 | bluspacecow | high premium meat |
| 07:52.24 | karl_w_w | everybody Neffi |
| 07:52.25 | bluspacecow | you know |
| 07:52.30 | bluspacecow | feed with high quality grass |
| 07:52.43 | bluspacecow | sung to sleep by half naked maidens |
| 07:52.44 | karl_w_w | and for those 2 pizzas, the price is $50 |
| 07:52.56 | Neffi | "pizza" |
| 07:53.08 | nevcairiel | Neffi: kJ is really the appropriate unit of measurement, kCal is so outdated and bad, still people keep using it, but shrug |
| 07:53.54 | Neffi | kCal is correct because murrica |
| 07:54.02 | Neffi | consumes another 2 ounces of beer. |
| 07:54.07 | nevcairiel | who cares about murrica |
| 07:54.15 | Neffi | O_O |
| 07:54.24 | karl_w_w | murcans |
| 07:54.30 | airtonix | merkns |
| 07:54.33 | nevcairiel | they use F and miles, they are clearly not something to consider valid in this regard |
| 07:54.49 | Neffi | Grand Old Units |
| 07:55.01 | airtonix | oh oh oh and they think the planet is 2000 years old! |
| 07:55.03 | Neffi | you youngsters always looking to change things |
| 07:55.08 | airtonix | yup yup |
| 07:55.13 | airtonix | change is good |
| 07:55.22 | airtonix | stagnate and fester |
| 07:55.39 | Neffi | guzzles 2 gills of beer. |
| 07:55.59 | nevcairiel | i think its funny that a country says that, which has only existed for a brief time, while all of europe has grown over centuries... :p |
| 07:56.13 | bleeter | pfft europe is a buncha nubs |
| 07:56.21 | karl_w_w | and when you take pain killers tomorrow the dosage will be measured in pounds, right Neffi? |
| 07:56.46 | Neffi | sure, why not! |
| 07:56.55 | Neffi | chugs 50 drachms of beer. |
| 07:56.59 | nevcairiel | bleeter: dont make me start with the jokes about all the criminals on that big continent to the south! |
| 07:57.05 | airtonix | the only time i hear pounds is in reference to weed |
| 07:57.17 | karl_w_w | pounds airtonix |
| 07:57.27 | airtonix | giggity goo |
| 07:58.06 | nevcairiel | we sometimes use pound, but it has a different meaning when used locally, its basically 500g :p |
| 07:58.20 | bleeter | nevcairiel: european imports here are, by logical deduction, also a buncha nubs |
| 07:58.24 | Neffi | but that's not correct! |
| 07:58.32 | Neffi | you people can't even murrica correctly |
| 07:58.40 | Neffi | drinks 150 scruples of beer. |
| 07:58.44 | bleeter | goes back to looking for a still of the ~10,000 year old cathederal |
| 07:59.01 | airtonix | let me light it up for you |
| 08:02.17 | *** join/#wowuidev VIad (~Vlad@151.117.45.31.customer.cdi.no) |
| 08:02.35 | bleeter | see ~4:00 to ~4:30. http://vimeo.com/m/69846045 |
| 08:03.21 | bleeter | I'm kinda :( that the reason we can see it now is because the elders think there aren't enough of their own people left to keep the ancestors 'alive' so they've decided to let outsiders in but simultaneously :) that they have |
| 08:03.39 | bleeter | shit is amazing, one of if not the best, aussie doco ever |
| 08:03.53 | bleeter | if not just for the photography |
| 08:17.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Tech_Talk (~quassel@192.241.205.5) |
| 08:18.39 | karl_w_w | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arr%C3%B2s_negre nope. |
| 08:20.18 | Neffi | people eat dirt? |
| 08:22.28 | Iriel | Interesting: http://boingboing.net/2013/12/13/google-acquires-robotics-firm.html#more-274202 |
| 08:23.17 | Iriel | and now, sleep |
| 08:24.03 | karl_w_w | looks like that whole "don't be evil" thing was just a ploy |
| 08:29.43 | bluspacecow | wait |
| 08:29.44 | bluspacecow | so |
| 08:29.54 | bluspacecow | if an addon author has the copyright on their addon |
| 08:30.06 | bluspacecow | does that extend to the settings files for their addon ? like the sv rile ? |
| 08:31.59 | karl_w_w | I guess so |
| 08:33.13 | ZorbaBeta | I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, etc - generally "copyright" extends only to the work created directly by the creator. The savedvariables files were created by you, therefore you would probably have copyright over them. |
| 08:33.44 | ZorbaBeta | That said, realistically the only way to get a definitive answer is to use the savedvariables files for your own purposes, and if you get sued and lose, then I guess you didn't have copyright on them. |
| 08:41.08 | karl_w_w | well if you want to look at it like that then blizzard has copyright cos they actually created the file |
| 08:41.59 | karl_w_w | in reality, what you did caused the addon to create the information, and then wow created the file from the information |
| 08:44.35 | Mr_Rabies | i created this http://i.imgur.com/vCoeQup.png |
| 08:44.36 | Mr_Rabies | hope it helps |
| 08:46.29 | bleeter | bluspacecow, ZorbaBeta, karl_w_w: I'd argue that SV's are a cache of stuff (to be restored at next runtime) and caches are (generally) special cased when (C) law comes in to play |
| 08:47.11 | bleeter | at least, as a rule of thumb. jurisdictional stuff obviously varies |
| 08:47.51 | Mr_Rabies | also made this for some reason http://i.imgur.com/IOlFvUf.png |
| 08:47.54 | Mr_Rabies | i'm very creative |
| 08:48.18 | bleeter | ~Mr_Rabies++ |
| 08:48.27 | bluspacecow | omg |
| 08:48.28 | bluspacecow | http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/10787529144?page=5#90 |
| 08:48.28 | bleeter | not mine, probably nsfw... https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bbbt68bCMAEI1ij.jpg |
| 08:48.34 | bluspacecow | the quotes actually worked! |
| 08:48.35 | bluspacecow | BRB |
| 08:49.35 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@unaffiliated/stolenlegacy) |
| 08:50.25 | Mr_Rabies | tiny was in here for a bit a few days back |
| 08:52.29 | bleeter | blushowercow: does the BS in para 3 smell as bad over there as it does here? http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11172303 |
| 08:52.46 | bleeter | (well, para 2 after the subhead) |
| 08:55.49 | Mr_Rabies | http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/10787529144?page=5#84 lol this post |
| 08:55.51 | Mr_Rabies | this post |
| 08:56.08 | blushowercow | para 3 ? |
| 08:57.40 | bleeter | blushowercow: "(NZ Customs)... also told law graduate Sam Blackman, 27, his equipment was confiscated because of a website accessed from a shared internet connection at a student flat in 2007." |
| 08:57.48 | blushowercow | lol |
| 08:57.53 | blushowercow | shared internet connection |
| 08:57.57 | bleeter | from '07 |
| 08:58.16 | blushowercow | sounds like they couldn't pin anything on the other flat members there and were grasping at straws |
| 08:58.36 | bleeter | sounds like he was picked up for attending that Snowden thing in UK but they were hardly going to admit that |
| 08:59.10 | bleeter | seriously, keeping records from '07 but only picking him up on re-entry to the country 6 years later... totally believable ;) |
| 08:59.58 | bleeter | I do like the NZ take on AU batshit, mind you :P |
| 09:00.09 | blushowercow | lol |
| 09:00.14 | blushowercow | give his back split enz |
| 09:01.22 | bleeter | you may be on to something there. he probably had a stash of FLying Nun rips on his phone, and we all know about those folks down DUnedin... |
| 09:01.48 | blutowelledcow | no |
| 09:02.01 | blutowelledcow | i mean u give us back split enz. you keep claiming it as a ozzie band |
| 09:05.44 | bleeter | blutowelledcow: oh I personally would never call the enz aussie over headless chickens or chills or jpse etc ;) |
| 09:06.38 | bleeter | Mr_Rabies, blutowelledcow: re that forum post. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=FSUES |
| 09:06.48 | blutowelledcow | ty |
| 09:07.29 | bleeter | blutowelledcow: you can also keep mr rootin' and tootin' |
| 09:07.37 | blutowelledcow | wat |
| 09:09.59 | bleeter | blutowelledcow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvyCWsErRSI |
| 09:43.07 | bleeter | srs question time: what I wanna know is, whether Launcher ignores date format locale on all platforms, or whether it's a Wine thing |
| 09:44.41 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 09:48.59 | karl_w_w | explain bleeter |
| 09:49.19 | karl_w_w | where is the date used |
| 09:49.58 | bleeter | karl_w_w: in the 'news' and 'community' section, the lists of links to forums posts |
| 09:50.24 | karl_w_w | oh you're still using the old launcher? |
| 09:50.52 | bleeter | karl_w_w: I dunno, I just let the thing update. I did try the beta new thing but it just wouldn't wine (at least, at the time) |
| 09:51.12 | karl_w_w | yeah then I don't know |
| 09:51.37 | bleeter | I guess everyone else here is also on the new launcher =) |
| 09:51.37 | karl_w_w | my guess is it ignores on all platforms |
| 09:52.28 | karl_w_w | oh wait |
| 09:52.40 | karl_w_w | http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/4457/wowlauncherv20.png |
| 09:53.32 | karl_w_w | http://s.cdn.wowinterface.com/preview/pvw57218.jpg yep |
| 09:57.32 | airtonix | https://github.com/flackr/circ |
| 09:58.11 | bluspacecow | lol |
| 09:58.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Yoshimo (~Miranda@aftr-88-217-180-227.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 09:58.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Yoshimo (~Miranda@unaffiliated/yoshimo) |
| 09:58.25 | bluspacecow | karl_w_w: dalek |
| 09:58.32 | bluspacecow | EXPLAIN EXPLAIN! |
| 09:58.47 | karl_w_w | o.O |
| 09:59.10 | Kodiack | Ew, does the launcher actually look that bad these days? |
| 09:59.18 | nevcairiel | nah |
| 09:59.28 | Kodiack | dat font |
| 09:59.34 | bleeter | don't look much betterer mind you lol |
| 09:59.48 | bleeter | yeah karl_w_w needs a damn good thrashing for that font |
| 09:59.51 | bleeter | :P |
| 09:59.55 | Kodiack | lol |
| 10:00.09 | nevcairiel | that looks like a weirdo custom launcher |
| 10:00.14 | karl_w_w | what? |
| 10:00.15 | Kodiack | Yeah, I think it is. |
| 10:00.22 | bleeter | I bet he'll say it wasn't his ;) |
| 10:00.25 | karl_w_w | it's called google images bleeter |
| 10:00.28 | bluspacecow | what where ? |
| 10:00.31 | bleeter | see! :P |
| 10:00.50 | Kodiack | I wonder if I can find any nasty-looking WoW launchers |
| 10:00.53 | karl_w_w | as if I would uninstall the desktop app just to help you! |
| 10:01.00 | Kodiack | http://s.cdn.wowinterface.com/preview/pvw55588.jpg |
| 10:01.13 | bleeter | :'( |
| 10:01.14 | Kodiack | I guess it's actually a thing |
| 10:01.18 | airtonix | circ actually looks kinda cool |
| 10:02.18 | bleeter | irc in a webbrowser is dumb. what is really needed is a proprieartaraytaty web2.0 irc service that have a very open API until such time they get a big user base etc. etc. |
| 10:02.27 | bleeter | :D |
| 10:02.43 | Kodiack | I used to use IRC in a web browser...back in '06 or so. |
| 10:02.58 | Kodiack | pidgin4lyfe |
| 10:03.01 | karl_w_w | bleeter is correct |
| 10:03.01 | bleeter | irssi(1) or gtfo! \o/ |
| 10:03.16 | karl_w_w | irc in a browser is dump |
| 10:03.19 | karl_w_w | dumb as well |
| 10:03.31 | Kodiack | I don't know how people do it. |
| 10:03.33 | bleeter | Kodiack: with due respect, if you use pidgin for irc you're an idiot. even the pidgin irc devs don't use pidgin for irc (well, OK one does but he's nutso!) |
| 10:03.43 | bleeter | ;) |
| 10:03.45 | Kodiack | Pfft |
| 10:03.50 | Kodiack | It gets the job done :D |
| 10:04.06 | karl_w_w | there are no good irc clients |
| 10:04.13 | *** join/#wowuidev MidnightAge (~Midnight@75.112.210.76) |
| 10:04.14 | bleeter | yeah it's basically a stopgap for when irssi is bugging out |
| 10:04.17 | Kodiack | Pretty much |
| 10:05.50 | Kodiack | I need more SSDs. Stupid hard drives get so whiny when they're reading/writing more than one thing at once |
| 10:07.08 | Kodiack | 4 AM. Time for sleep! |
| 10:07.17 | karl_w_w | zeroth world problems |
| 10:07.20 | bleeter | you are getting sleepy |
| 10:09.49 | karl_w_w | oh look you can run chatzilla standalone |
| 10:10.36 | karl_w_w | but I have no idea if chatzilla is any good |
| 10:25.23 | airtonix | chatzilla is crap |
| 10:25.32 | airtonix | anythingzilla is crap |
| 10:25.49 | airtonix | if steve jobs didn't make it, then it's crap |
| 10:26.28 | airtonix | if he didn't pour his love and soul and omnipotent wisdom into the creation, if he didn't spend billions of hours toiling away at the soldering iron station on it, then it's crap |
| 10:27.12 | karl_w_w | you funny airtonix |
| 10:27.26 | airtonix | how dare you use the lords name in vain |
| 10:28.14 | airtonix | bleeter: irc in a web browser is dumb, but what do you think about firefoxOS ? |
| 10:28.46 | Neffi | http://imgur.com/gallery/OniOW |
| 10:29.15 | airtonix | lulz |
| 10:32.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Dennls (~dennis@s55973038.adsl.online.nl) |
| 10:41.53 | airtonix | so karl_w_w. are you responsible for the melbourne ferris wheel? |
| 10:43.12 | karl_w_w | yes |
| 10:54.22 | karl_w_w | "She's visiting her boyfriend over for the holiday break" murcan grammar |
| 10:58.09 | Neffi | murrican*, pleb |
| 10:59.27 | Dennls | does anyone here use elvUI? |
| 10:59.40 | bleeter | says the person who wouldn't be able to find their own navel with a flashlight, pickaxe and map :P |
| 11:00.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Dennls (~dennis@s55973038.adsl.online.nl) |
| 11:00.13 | Dennls | sorry derped and closed IRC |
| 11:00.13 | bleeter | take away the map, you'd be fine :) |
| 11:00.36 | Dennls | in ElvUI it shows your buffs by showing a tiny bar and teh amount of seconds remaining, does anyone know what that addon is called? |
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| 11:06.09 | karl_w_w | several addons do that Dennls, quartz is one of them |
| 11:06.31 | Dennls | I have quartz installed but im not sure how to make it show only relevant stuff |
| 11:06.50 | Dennls | like buffs etc, I Dont need to see those |
| 11:11.13 | karl_w_w | http://imgur.com/gallery/Y810x engrish is the best language |
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| 11:23.13 | Dennls | Shadowed: Are you available? |
| 11:24.06 | Dennls | nevermind found it |
| 11:39.43 | karl_w_w | oh good, 41°C tomorrow |
| 11:40.26 | karl_w_w | or at least that's the forecast, today's forecast was 38 and it ended up 40 |
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| 13:05.22 | airtonix | 27 down here cuz |
| 13:07.19 | karl_w_w | I'm not your cuz, bro |
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| 15:31.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 15:34.21 | bluspacecow | oh hay guise. What's your us.depot.battle.net domain resolving to ? |
| 15:35.17 | Sintacks | Jamba is being stupid |
| 15:35.21 | Sintacks | but only on one slave |
| 15:35.26 | Sintacks | and not sending quest progress updates |
| 15:35.33 | foxlit | kittens, bluespacecow. adorable kittens. |
| 15:35.53 | bluspacecow | wat |
| 15:36.04 | bluspacecow | sorry fox lit |
| 15:36.19 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:36.22 | bluspacecow | i can't advise some to add "kittens adorable kittens us.depot.battle.net" to their hosts file :O |
| 15:36.30 | bluspacecow | *someone |
| 15:37.00 | foxlit | why not? clearly adorable kittens belong in every file. |
| 15:37.16 | bluspacecow | just not sure how they're DNS resolution would be with that in there. |
| 15:37.27 | foxlit | adorably! |
| 15:37.28 | bluspacecow | i wonder if it'll go to some undefined state ..... |
| 15:39.32 | foxlit | an undefined, adorable state? |
| 15:40.37 | bluspacecow | so if I do a traceroute to kittens I get ? |
| 15:41.13 | bluspacecow | 1) meow |
| 15:41.17 | bluspacecow | 2) meow |
| 15:41.20 | bluspacecow | 3) meow |
| 15:41.23 | bluspacecow | 4) ****** |
| 15:43.34 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:43.41 | bluspacecow | oh man |
| 15:43.44 | bluspacecow | sneaky kittens |
| 15:50.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Atriace (~Atriace@68.204.175.227) |
| 15:51.41 | Atriace | Wow... 4 years later, Cairenn, and everyone else is still here. Feels like home. :) |
| 15:51.52 | bluspacecow | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:52.00 | Semlar | that's unhygenic |
| 15:52.46 | bluspacecow | don't haet |
| 15:52.47 | bluspacecow | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:52.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Yoshimo (~Miranda@unaffiliated/yoshimo) |
| 15:53.51 | Sintacks | huggles bluspacecow |
| 15:54.00 | Sintacks | slaps Semlar around a bit with a large trout | 4,786 tributes to Monty Python |
| 15:54.01 | bluspacecow | i feel loved |
| 15:54.02 | Atriace | Question: the Animation class... is it required? I'm not happy with its implementation of animation, and want to roll my own solution, but I'm wondering if Blizzard has optimized (prioritized processing) on the animation class which would make any pure Lua solution less smooth. |
| 15:54.13 | foxlit | wait, wow development? |
| 15:54.21 | foxlit | what is this heresy. We don't do that here. Only adorable kittens. |
| 15:54.21 | Atriace | Yep, oh Hi foxlit. :) |
| 15:54.30 | foxlit | And hugtackles, of course. |
| 15:54.44 | Atriace | lol |
| 15:55.07 | Atriace | You know you were credited @ http://massive.atriace.com/ |
| 15:55.25 | Atriace | I haven't updated that site in ages. |
| 15:55.41 | bluspacecow | isUserAGoat(kittens) |
| 15:56.19 | bluspacecow | lol |
| 15:56.24 | foxlit | mm, all those wowwiki links. |
| 15:56.30 | Semlar | you can implement your own animations |
| 15:56.47 | Semlar | their widget is pretty bad at some tasks |
| 15:56.54 | Atriace | That's reassuring |
| 15:56.59 | bluspacecow | how bad ? |
| 15:57.06 | bluspacecow | like short bus retarded bad ? |
| 15:57.12 | bluspacecow | or OMG WAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII bad ? |
| 15:58.04 | Semlar | do you only use your tongue for evil |
| 15:58.21 | bluspacecow | 's tongue whacks Semlar |
| 15:58.38 | Semlar | tries to calm bluspacecow down |
| 15:58.44 | Atriace | Next question: is there already a lua animation library popular around here? |
| 15:58.53 | Semlar | no |
| 15:58.55 | bluspacecow | *waggles tail cheerfully* |
| 15:58.59 | foxlit | because we only develop kittens. |
| 15:59.01 | bluspacecow | *licks semlar* |
| 15:59.09 | Semlar | sometimes we develop puns |
| 15:59.18 | foxlit | only kitten puns. |
| 15:59.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Archarodim (HydraIRC@78.203.110.56) |
| 15:59.32 | Atriace | It's always nice to know you're braving new programming territory... |
| 15:59.50 | Semlar | you could try searching for an animation lib but i haven't heard of one |
| 15:59.58 | bluspacecow | make one |
| 16:00.00 | bluspacecow | and name it |
| 16:00.04 | bluspacecow | KittenLib() |
| 16:00.29 | Semlar | i mean powerauras and weakauras must have some implementation for animating textures |
| 16:00.45 | Atriace | I'm guessing it'd be taboo to be ailurophobic here. |
| 16:01.21 | foxlit | I'm guessing that problem solves itself, since internet. |
| 16:01.59 | Semlar | just don't click on any links anyone ever sends to the chat and you should be good |
| 16:02.04 | foxlit | bluspacecow: and for 2.0, you could graduate it to "CatLib"! |
| 16:02.10 | bluspacecow | yay! |
| 16:11.51 | Atriace | What are people using to programmatically draw shapes? |
| 16:12.53 | bluspacecow | Logo! |
| 16:15.16 | Atriace | Found a casual reference to "Logo", but I can't find the original: https://github.com/jessehorne/luadraw |
| 16:15.22 | Atriace | Link? |
| 16:16.05 | bluspacecow | lol |
| 16:16.09 | bluspacecow | i meant the original Logo |
| 16:16.10 | Semlar | i think AVR constructed shapes from arbitrary triangles but that math is beyond me |
| 16:16.10 | bluspacecow | :P |
| 16:16.30 | Semlar | arbitrary shapes from triangles rather |
| 16:17.19 | Semlar | i just deal with textures |
| 16:19.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Kultzi (~ironi@85-76-175-5-nat.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 16:19.54 | Semlar | what are you trying to do? |
| 16:21.44 | Sintacks | I miss AVR |
| 16:21.59 | Sintacks | drawling a penis on the raid stack point |
| 16:22.00 | Sintacks | lulz |
| 16:22.41 | Semlar | you would miss that |
| 16:23.22 | Sintacks | one of the cool things I miss really is the point at which you will blink to as a mage |
| 16:23.47 | Sintacks | you could also make a ring for the limit of your leap as a warrior |
| 16:23.48 | Semlar | i had it draw a border around my healers so i could see their range |
| 16:24.41 | Sintacks | trying to pictgure in my head how this tier's fights would use AVR if AVR E wasn't dead |
| 16:25.05 | Sintacks | first thing that comes to mind is Thok stack points |
| 16:25.41 | Semlar | you could indicate what areas were safe on malkorok |
| 16:26.01 | Semlar | like on the actual stage |
| 16:26.06 | Sintacks | oh god. that would be awesome. cuz they would be exactly where it is unsafe |
| 16:27.37 | Sintacks | figured out and drawl a line exactly where it's unsafe for Ironstars on garrosh |
| 16:28.07 | Sintacks | i'm sure there's something that could be done on blackfuse |
| 16:28.16 | Sintacks | oh... mark where it's going to be safe next for the firewall |
| 16:28.18 | Sintacks | maybe. |
| 16:28.31 | Sintacks | that one could be complicated to keep in sync maybe. now sure |
| 16:29.04 | Sintacks | the game itself already does some things AVR was used for |
| 16:29.09 | Sintacks | range on certain abilites |
| 16:29.13 | Sintacks | like bombs on spoils |
| 16:29.15 | Sintacks | shock on lei shen |
| 16:29.21 | Sintacks | and other shit like that |
| 16:29.26 | Sintacks | meh |
| 16:29.27 | Sintacks | i go sleep |
| 16:52.23 | Atriace | Semlar: http://www.wowace.com/addons/avr/? |
| 16:53.02 | Semlar | it was capable of drawing arbitrary shapes |
| 16:53.13 | Atriace | In the D3D space, no less. |
| 16:53.34 | Atriace | er... DirectX, I mean. |
| 16:53.41 | Semlar | and that's why we can't get the camera angle any more |
| 16:53.57 | Atriace | Sounds like I'm missing some history here. |
| 16:54.12 | Atriace | They removed camera functions, and blocked this mod's injection method, I take it? |
| 16:54.14 | Semlar | well this happened like 3 years ago |
| 16:55.05 | Semlar | it didn't inject anything it just drew shapes and manipulated them to look like they were 3 dimensional based on how you looked at them |
| 16:55.21 | Atriace | Oh nice. |
| 16:56.07 | Shirik | http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2011/12/25/portal-christmas-tree/ |
| 16:56.09 | Shirik | I need one of these |
| 16:56.47 | Fisker | I don't |
| 16:56.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Shenton (~Shenton@2001:41d0:2:ed65::1) |
| 17:02.03 | Shirik | Cairenn: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1578042883777 |
| 17:02.17 | Fisker | don't do it |
| 17:22.14 | foxlit | self:RunAttribute("_onattributechanged", "state-foo", "bar") |
| 17:22.22 | foxlit | guess what went horribly wrong. |
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| 18:08.52 | jleclanche | Neffi: page move implemented |
| 18:09.09 | jleclanche | also cleaned up article logic a lot |
| 18:09.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Cidan (~cidan@conspiracy/developer/Cidan) |
| 18:09.37 | jleclanche | this is quite nice. <300 working lines of code |
| 18:09.39 | Neffi | Now I'm sure I set up my client to not handle being away |
| 18:09.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Sunshine (Sunshine@unaffiliated/sunshine/x-2691069) |
| 18:09.45 | Neffi | how do people alwaysknow when I wake up? |
| 18:09.55 | Neffi | Do you have Semlar spying for you? |
| 18:09.59 | jleclanche | I'm a genius thats how |
| 18:10.15 | Semlar | neffi put some pants on |
| 18:10.27 | Neffi | But I have pajamas on and they're comfortable |
| 18:10.44 | Semlar | my pyjamas have holes in the knees |
| 18:10.45 | Neffi | jleclanche: as in, redirects? |
| 18:10.51 | jleclanche | Neffi: no redirects yet |
| 18:10.52 | jleclanche | just move page |
| 18:10.53 | Neffi | Semlar: I wonder why.... |
| 18:10.56 | jleclanche | implementing redirects now |
| 18:11.03 | Semlar | i think it may be time to replace them |
| 18:11.07 | Neffi | Did you find an elegant way to handle them? |
| 18:11.30 | jleclanche | yes; less elegant than i wanted but still decent |
| 18:11.41 | jleclanche | pages themselves are symlink |
| 18:11.43 | Neffi | well, as long as it works |
| 18:11.51 | jleclanche | their content is in a file named <page>#data |
| 18:11.53 | Neffi | I thought you couldn't do symlinks? |
| 18:12.08 | jleclanche | i always could, but i would lose the data |
| 18:16.35 | Neffi | https://wiki.freebsd.org/IvanVoras/BSDLUA |
| 18:16.48 | Neffi | Slides are 2 years old and the author's site isn't even up anymore |
| 18:16.51 | Neffi | This was a cool idea |
| 18:19.11 | jleclanche | whats this? |
| 18:19.29 | Neffi | Write userland tools in Lua instead of sh/perl/TCL/etc |
| 18:19.47 | Neffi | He was writing a BSD Lua library to import POSIX/UNIX commands, and then BSD-specific APIs as well |
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| 18:20.30 | Neffi | He made some good points. TCL is arcane. Perl is hard to read. sh is hard to maintain as well. Lua would be a great language for the task. |
| 18:21.02 | jleclanche | lua doesn't do well on the desktop =/ |
| 18:21.05 | jleclanche | a shame |
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| 18:21.12 | Neffi | NetBSD guys seem to love Lua like nobody else. I should see if they picked up anything similar. |
| 18:21.13 | jleclanche | Neffi: now isn't this pretty? https://github.com/Adys/Wikt/commit/e5c8d5c15757d98c6f574802a557ad89102b9a16 |
| 18:22.03 | Neffi | seems simple enough |
| 18:22.10 | Neffi | i thought it'd be more than a one line change |
| 18:22.21 | jleclanche | :D |
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| 18:30.20 | jleclanche | Neffi: and redirects done. http://leclan.ch:5000/wiki/Tig |
| 18:31.03 | jleclanche | Neffi: :) https://github.com/Adys/Wikt/commit/aae1f68939051ff2a43993eac625e3dc0139886e |
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| 18:31.32 | Neffi | not loading for me |
| 18:31.58 | jleclanche | sorry, port 5000 is blocked |
| 18:32.12 | jleclanche | anyway they're primitive, they just 301 atm |
| 18:32.15 | Neffi | ha |
| 18:32.16 | Stanzilla | good job jerome |
| 18:32.26 | Neffi | return render_template(... |
| 18:32.34 | Neffi | might need to cache page builds |
| 18:32.42 | jleclanche | yeah not there yet :P |
| 18:32.46 | jleclanche | i am really enjoying flask tho |
| 18:34.27 | Neffi | As long as it caches well it should perform fairly well |
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| 18:59.21 | Atriace | Well, both HudMap & AVR were using textures to create their onscreen shapes. I'm dissapointed. |
| 19:01.13 | Atriace | That was the same solution recount used for its graphs, iirc. |
| 19:02.38 | Semlar | you have to use textures |
| 19:02.52 | Semlar | but they manipulate them into the shape they want |
| 19:03.08 | Atriace | multi-point distortion? |
| 19:03.15 | Atriace | Or just bounds? |
| 19:03.29 | Atriace | (i.e, perspective/skew) |
| 19:04.06 | Semlar | you can't skew it exactly but SetTexCoord lets you change how it's stretched within its boundaries |
| 19:04.57 | Semlar | the texture itself is always going to be a rectangle |
| 19:05.45 | Semlar | i don't think i'm going to be able to explain this very well |
| 19:06.22 | Semlar | you can do matrix transformations on the original image |
| 19:07.29 | Semlar | and i'm almost positive AVR used triangles to build whatever shape you were trying to draw |
| 19:10.07 | Semlar | i mean except for maybe a circle you can build any polygon out of triangles right |
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| 19:11.09 | Semlar | it's all verteces and what not |
| 19:11.15 | Semlar | vertices? |
| 19:11.36 | Amarande | vertices is proper, yes |
| 19:11.39 | Semlar | whatever |
| 19:11.44 | Amarande | "vertexes" is sometimes seen, but isn't quite right |
| 19:11.49 | Semlar | where does the i come from |
| 19:14.23 | Semlar | anyway i draw the line at trig |
| 19:14.28 | Semlar | you're on your own |
| 19:14.42 | kd3 | muh, that's a depressing thought... for everyone younger than 37, today was the first soft lunar landing in your lifetime |
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| 19:26.09 | Amarande | kd3: and meanwhile it hasn't seemed to appear on the local radio news around here at all, all they keep going on about (well, besides the major snowstorm currently hitting) seems to be "REMEMBER SANDY HOOK!" :( |
| 19:26.29 | Amarande | I just had to go to the Guardian site to find out about the moon landing |
| 19:26.39 | Amarande | sheesh, guys. MOON LANDINGS USED TO BE A BIG THING :S |
| 19:28.45 | Semlar | hm, nobody is showing up in a /who of my own zone on the ptr, including myself |
| 19:29.10 | Semlar | inside of ragefire |
| 19:30.44 | Neffi | Atriace: affine transformations http://wowpedia.org/API_Texture_SetTexCoord |
| 19:32.29 | Neffi | o lord |
| 19:32.30 | Neffi | http://i.imgur.com/rwOBY.jpg |
| 19:32.32 | Neffi | bootiful |
| 19:32.53 | Amarande | Semlar: are you sure you spelled it right? |
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| 19:33.09 | Semlar | yeah, i literally just did /who |
| 19:33.26 | Semlar | it automatically fills in your zone and your level range |
| 19:33.28 | Neffi | Any strange behavior? Maybe an addon is saturating /who requests |
| 19:33.52 | Semlar | i show up in a /who ragefire which does a partial match |
| 19:34.15 | Semlar | but not /who z-"Ragefire Chasm" |
| 19:34.28 | Neffi | Strange. Did they change the syntax? |
| 19:34.36 | Semlar | no, because it works in org |
| 19:35.01 | Neffi | So the local server (where you're located) probably doesn't know what the hell is going on |
| 19:35.56 | Semlar | i mean, i can do /who z-"Shrine of Two Moons" while in ragefire no problem, but i can't see who's in the instance if i use the instance name in the zone field |
| 19:36.17 | Semlar | but i CAN see who's in the instance if i do a partial match for the name which makes no sense |
| 19:36.26 | nevcairiel | maybe you typoed :D |
| 19:36.35 | Semlar | it's not a typo |
| 19:36.44 | Semlar | the game fills the name in automatically |
| 19:36.51 | Neffi | Maybe they're doing new types of load balancing the server isn't quite aware of the instances |
| 19:37.26 | Neffi | Whereas it redirects any who requests it doesn't expect to fulfil itself to your home server, which does work |
| 19:38.16 | Semlar | i'm pretty sure this is the same build that's live too so i should probably check that |
| 19:38.22 | Neffi | http://i.imgur.com/vbRBPFV.jpg |
| 19:38.28 | Neffi | Oh, this is PTR? |
| 19:38.43 | Semlar | it's on the ptr |
| 19:39.01 | Neffi | Maybe the same client build, but a different server-side build |
| 19:39.43 | Semlar | also a surprising number of people play the ptr like it's the real game |
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| 19:40.18 | Neffi | Good |
| 19:40.27 | Semlar | like.. people are grinding for their legendary cloaks and stuff |
| 19:40.43 | Neffi | Test the content. Plan ahead on their part. Helps the devs catch bugs. Everyone wins. |
| 19:41.07 | Neffi | I'm sure the people who really push for hardcore progression want to know everything before it goes live |
| 19:41.39 | nevcairiel | i really dislike that |
| 19:41.51 | Neffi | So do I, but that's why I don't do it |
| 19:42.04 | Neffi | I don't like when RPGs get too gamey. I like an RPG to feel like an adventure. |
| 19:42.07 | nevcairiel | you need to be truely hardcore to go to the PTR to learn the encounter, which we never were |
| 19:42.10 | Neffi | But to each their own |
| 19:42.14 | nevcairiel | so we only saw it on live |
| 19:42.27 | nevcairiel | in classic, it was still fun because you got a completely new, unknown encounter |
| 19:42.32 | Neffi | http://i.imgur.com/g0QoLGI.jpg why are all cats so fucking cute? |
| 19:42.40 | nevcairiel | later when PTRs are more common, you can read it fully documented long before live |
| 19:42.41 | nevcairiel | so stupid |
| 19:43.17 | Neffi | WoW definitely has gotten more gamey since vanilla. It's to be expected that this behavior follows. I don't think it's necessary bad, because it means better testing. |
| 19:44.10 | nevcairiel | but it also means the dedicated (yet not hardcore) raider doesnt get a chance to learn the encounter |
| 19:44.22 | nevcairiel | you just follow the rule book the hardcore guilds wrote on the ptr |
| 19:44.43 | Neffi | This is a problem I wonder how to overcome often |
| 19:45.01 | Neffi | Because I'd love to design an RPG that gives the sense of being epic, but goes in the exact opposite direction of being gamey |
| 19:45.01 | nevcairiel | could try to find 10 dedicated people that all make a pact not to read guides |
| 19:45.04 | kd3 | they tried this before... the result was the disaster that was bwl |
| 19:45.05 | nevcairiel | but you know, impossible .p |
| 19:45.18 | kd3 | (this being... no ptr testing of a raid) |
| 19:45.20 | Semlar | uh my guild has no problem getting people to not learn anything about the encounter before they go in |
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| 19:45.28 | Semlar | i don't know about yours |
| 19:45.29 | Neffi | lol Semlar |
| 19:46.13 | Neffi | Semlar: http://i.imgur.com/OoQEVBO.png |
| 19:46.23 | nevcairiel | Semlar: but if you wipe because you dont follow a popular guide strategy, after a few tries the first whiners will complain why we dont just use the guide and get over with it |
| 19:46.31 | Neffi | <- master of subtlety right here |
| 19:47.08 | Neffi | nevcairiel: this is part of why I didn't get into PvE back when I found it enjoyable |
| 19:47.11 | Semlar | we don't have whining |
| 19:47.46 | Semlar | anyone who doesn't want to be there doesn't go |
| 19:48.12 | nevcairiel | this might be more fun with the extended flex in warlords |
| 19:48.21 | nevcairiel | easier to kick people out :p |
| 19:49.04 | Neffi | wow http://i.imgur.com/f12kFNx.jpg |
| 19:49.09 | Neffi | hasn't happened in over 100 years |
| 19:49.23 | Neffi | And tonight on Fox: how global warming is a lie |
| 19:49.46 | Semlar | "climate change" is harder to make fun of |
| 19:49.52 | Neffi | Oh, they do |
| 19:50.30 | Semlar | snow in egypt seems changey to me |
| 19:50.56 | Neffi | The goto rebuttal (at least as of a year ago) is that climate change IS real (*gasp*) but it has nothing to do with "global warming" and isn't man made. The earth just gets warmer as it goes on! |
| 19:51.01 | nevcairiel | Neffi: why does that look like fake snow |
| 19:51.12 | Semlar | maybe fake snow looks like real snow |
| 19:51.21 | Neffi | nevcairiel: iunno, but it's not |
| 19:51.55 | Semlar | or maybe you're used to fake snow so now real snow looks wrong! |
| 19:51.56 | Neffi | another angle http://i.imgur.com/O3NK3Ov.jpg |
| 19:51.58 | nevcairiel | fox argument will be that if we had global warming, how can it get colder in egypt? its warming afterall! |
| 19:52.07 | Neffi | precisely |
| 19:52.41 | Semlar | because it's climate chaaaaaaange |
| 19:52.45 | Neffi | and then they'll hire a "scientist" to use a bunch of long words to explain how all other scientists are evil democrats conspiring to take over the world |
| 19:52.48 | Semlar | they stopped calling it global warming |
| 19:52.59 | Neffi | "They"? It's both |
| 19:53.59 | Neffi | apparently that last one is fake |
| 19:54.14 | Neffi | and it looks it |
| 19:54.26 | Semlar | they're all fake |
| 19:55.04 | Neffi | yeah that's looking like a possibility |
| 19:55.17 | Neffi | anyway, it did snow in Cairo for the first time in over a century, so that's news anyway |
| 19:55.21 | Neffi | and Fox will pick it up |
| 19:56.12 | Semlar | it's a model |
| 19:56.31 | Neffi | Don't blame me. I have bad eyes. |
| 19:56.54 | Semlar | we need a banana for scale |
| 19:57.07 | Neffi | but these aren't http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/13/cairo-snow_n_4441049.html |
| 20:01.32 | Neffi | http://i.imgur.com/UEQ7UQq.png i hope this is real |
| 20:17.39 | Amarande | nevcairiel: not to mention, strategies that aren't "the proper one" frequently find themselves broken in later patches |
| 20:22.33 | jleclanche | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pcWlyUu8U4 |
| 20:22.34 | jleclanche | hah |
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| 21:24.59 | mikma | http://youtu.be/ZRd3lrukxu8 |
| 21:35.40 | kd3 | woo, my day 1 and day 3 holiday bullshit packs made it |
| 21:51.43 | kd3 | oops? http://www.king5.com/home/Firefighters-mistakenly-pump-jet-fuel-on-fire-instead-of-water-235812481.html |
| 21:52.35 | nevcairiel | thats why they get to do trainings, i guess? |
| 22:04.40 | Semlar | ha, well i accidentally had the firehose set to "jet fuel" |
| 22:04.43 | Semlar | rooky mistake |
| 22:11.37 | jleclanche | kd3: ping |
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| 22:34.06 | jleclanche | kd3|hate`net: ping |
| 22:34.38 | Neffi | jleclanche: any more interesting developments? |
| 22:34.55 | jleclanche | Neffi: on the wiki? no ive stopped for today |
| 22:35.03 | jleclanche | you know im open to pull requests :P |
| 22:35.05 | jleclanche | github.com/adys/wikt |
| 22:35.22 | Neffi | I don't know Python (yet) |
| 22:36.01 | Neffi | If it was in Lua, I'd definitely contribute |
| 22:36.24 | jleclanche | python is dead easy for anyone who knows lua |
| 22:36.45 | Neffi | Yeah, the code feels familiar, and somebody in #lua was raving about how easy it was to port both ways |
| 22:37.01 | Neffi | But I'd still make rookie mistakes until I get comfortable, and I'm not gonna contribute useless code |
| 22:37.31 | jleclanche | i actually think pull requests are a good way to learn a language you're not comfortable with |
| 22:37.59 | Neffi | I'm gonna spend some solid time working with another language soon in a week or so. I'm still deciding if I should pick C back up and get good with it (esp since I can use the Lua API) or if I should pick up Python (because I'd love to make some apps with Python+Qt) |
| 22:38.00 | jleclanche | your code gets reviewed, you get explanations why things dont work a certain way, and your own expectations of yourself are higher |
| 22:38.37 | Neffi | If I stick to Python for now, I should be reasonably comfortable pretty soon. I'll check it out then |
| 22:39.48 | Semlar | sticks to neffi |
| 22:40.01 | Neffi | I want to start developing *nix stuff. Both desktop software, and possibly contributing to FreeBSD. So Python and C are the things I want to get into right now. |
| 22:40.20 | Neffi | Semlar: oeeewww, it's all gooey |
| 22:40.22 | jleclanche | python is incredibly useful |
| 22:40.29 | jleclanche | speaking of useless crap |
| 22:40.38 | jleclanche | anyone in EU got the item shop working in wow? |
| 22:41.03 | Neffi | Could you recommend a Python primer/book for somebody with lots of experience scripting already? |
| 22:41.09 | Neffi | I'm thinking of Learn Python the Hard Way |
| 22:41.10 | jleclanche | diveintopython3 |
| 22:41.15 | jleclanche | thats also a good one |
| 22:41.19 | Neffi | So you'd recommend Python 3 over 2? |
| 22:41.27 | jleclanche | yes, if you're starting especially |
| 22:41.54 | jleclanche | python 3 is actually pretty widespread and a lot of libs are available for it |
| 22:42.08 | Neffi | As long as Qt's available for it |
| 22:42.12 | jleclanche | it is |
| 22:42.14 | Neffi | Qt5 |
| 22:42.17 | jleclanche | ya |
| 22:42.22 | Neffi | alright |
| 22:42.23 | Semlar | i use pyfon 2.7 |
| 22:42.50 | Neffi | Alright, I bookmarked Dive Into. Thanks. |
| 22:43.11 | jleclanche | python 2 is still in the majority but youd mostly use it in fields where a specific lib isnt available. like in django, not all the django apps are ported to 3 |
| 22:43.20 | jleclanche | (in fact very few are, the django py3k port is recent) |
| 22:43.34 | Neffi | The only thing I'm looking at doing right now is developing my own applications. |
| 22:43.45 | jleclanche | definitely python 3 then |
| 22:43.53 | Neffi | I'm sure once I'm comfortable with Python 3, and the years I already have experience with Lua, I can do Python 2 if I need to |
| 22:44.08 | jleclanche | 2.7 and 3.3 are not that different |
| 22:44.16 | jleclanche | 3.3 is just overall better |
| 22:44.33 | jleclanche | unicode handling is so, so much better |
| 22:44.40 | Neffi | nice |
| 22:44.53 | Neffi | Useful for a desktop application |
| 22:45.00 | jleclanche | useful for everything |
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| 22:51.30 | foxlit | http://www.townlong-yak.com/opie/release/mango1 << halfway through the alphabet, whee. |
| 22:52.41 | Neffi | foxlit: what happens when you get to Z? |
| 22:52.48 | foxlit | The world ends. |
| 22:53.02 | Neffi | Then it would be irresponsible of me not to kill you |
| 22:53.19 | Stanzilla | noo |
| 22:53.22 | Stanzilla | more rings removed |
| 22:53.24 | Stanzilla | y u do dis |
| 22:53.58 | foxlit | slow-moving quality control. |
| 22:58.52 | foxlit | cata/mists successively cut the number of different stone-like things warlocks produce, so the original ring made very little sense. |
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| 23:03.31 | pb_ee1 | Il est où le point de rendez-vous (sur une carte)? |
| 23:04.20 | jleclanche | pb_ee1: i was just about to complain about not being able to get rid of chrome requesting everything in french |
| 23:04.22 | jleclanche | and you show up |
| 23:04.36 | pb_ee1 | Meh |
| 23:04.42 | pb_ee1 | Wrong chat actually |
| 23:04.52 | pb_ee1 | Well the 2nd or 3rd time you can disable it completely for french |
| 23:05.22 | jleclanche | ok i know why it does that actually |
| 23:05.43 | jleclanche | me telling chrome "i dont want you to translate french" is interpreted as "i want everything in french" |
| 23:05.45 | jleclanche | fuck this shit |
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