| 00:00.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Diao (Diao@ip68-5-200-162.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 00:03.30 | foxlit | http://www.go-hero.net/i/aki.jpg << see, ugly icon borders! |
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| 00:14.02 | pompy | Magic Jack's being used for malicious purposes.. http://barnegat-manahawkin.patch.com/groups/police-and-fire/p/stafford-police-warn-business-owners-of-local-scame |
| 00:14.27 | Semlar-Laptop | scame |
| 00:22.39 | Semlar-Laptop | who would fall for this |
| 00:23.22 | Semlar-Laptop | "Oh yeah, and we'll shut off your power if you don't pay using whatever Green Dot cards are" |
| 00:28.05 | Arrowmaster | pompy: give pages |
| 00:30.29 | Arrowmaster | rubies too |
| 00:34.36 | Neffi | mofucker |
| 00:34.54 | Neffi | 2 stacks of gold, 4 stacks of iron, emerald, redstone and all tons of cool shit and I fall in lava |
| 00:35.33 | kd3 | fire protection potions or enderballs? |
| 00:35.34 | Esamynn|work | ~laugh Neffi |
| 00:35.34 | purl | ACTION laughs hysterically at Neffi...ow! laughing so hard, it can't breathe... gasp...gasp...gasp.... ..... ... |
| 00:35.46 | Neffi | kd3: No potions or enchants or anything fancy |
| 00:36.05 | Neffi | I stumbled across what must be one of the biggest cave systems Minecraft can generate |
| 00:36.19 | foxlit | It seems that at some point the UI team fired whoever was keeping ui.xsd up to date. |
| 00:37.01 | Esamynn|work | ... |
| 00:37.06 | Esamynn|work | really? |
| 00:37.13 | Esamynn|work | what's missing? |
| 00:38.38 | foxlit | 5.4's forbidden widget trickery, for example. |
| 00:38.45 | Esamynn|work | ahh |
| 00:38.51 | Esamynn|work | anything else? |
| 00:38.52 | Neffi | forbidden widget? |
| 00:39.06 | Esamynn|work | in game store protection magic |
| 00:39.08 | foxlit | I was also going to complain about anchor syntax shorthands, but it seems like they're actually in there. |
| 00:39.17 | Neffi | well everyone loves magic |
| 00:39.19 | foxlit | so maybe it's fine after all. |
| 00:39.35 | Esamynn|work | normally they're pretty good foxlit, they likely just forgot the store stuff |
| 00:40.10 | Esamynn|work | not as if there was much in the was of xml schema changes for that, afaik |
| 00:44.34 | foxlit | any idea when the <Anchor ... x="5" /> was added? |
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| 00:53.33 | Semlar | a long long time ago |
| 00:53.55 | Semlar | like at least 3 years |
| 00:54.18 | Semlar | i was using that the brief time i actually tried using xml |
| 00:54.53 | Semlar | do different secondary stats have different weights? how do they determine how much of a stat to put on a piece of gear |
| 00:57.22 | Neffi | I assume they're all weighted against 1 ilvl |
| 00:57.37 | Neffi | Although it does seem that the ilvl budget is not strict |
| 00:58.12 | Semlar | http://www.wowhead.com/items=4.3?filter=sl=3;minle=553;maxle=553;cr=21;crs=1;crv=0 the quarantine shouldeguards have way the hell more stats than the other shoulders here but i wonder if it's because it's split evenly between them |
| 00:58.52 | Semlar | or if red sockets are worth more than blue sockets |
| 01:01.29 | pompy | Arrowmaster: you there? |
| 01:08.42 | Arrowmaster | yes |
| 01:12.14 | Neffi | I know you guys with ESO beta are still under NDA, but does that forbid you from discussing how the game performs on your hardware? |
| 01:12.24 | Neffi | I'm curious what requirements are being targeted |
| 01:15.24 | TC-Work | They don't have anything about it? |
| 01:15.47 | Neffi | Their NDA's wording seems broad enough to cover it actually |
| 01:16.00 | Neffi | They probably don't want benchmarks in the wild yet |
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| 01:33.25 | kd3 | oh... wow, someone didn't think this out at the jfk memorial... http://i.imgur.com/656DZf5.jpg |
| 01:34.28 | Neffi | :| |
| 01:35.33 | Semlar | dat gap |
| 01:37.04 | Esamynn|work | roflmao |
| 01:37.06 | kd3 | the whole album is hilarious: (particularly #7) http://imgur.com/a/E9iRD/layout/blog |
| 02:06.32 | *** join/#wowuidev ShirikPro (~Shirik@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 02:06.32 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ShirikPro] by ChanServ |
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| 02:23.57 | *** join/#wowuidev ShirikPro (~Shirik@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
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| 02:34.03 | *** join/#wowuidev ShirikPro (~Shirik@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 02:34.03 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ShirikPro] by ChanServ |
| 02:35.28 | ShirikPro | so I plug my iphone into my macbook |
| 02:35.44 | ShirikPro | itunes on the computer pops up asking "do you want to trust this computer with access to this iphone?" |
| 02:35.51 | ShirikPro | why does the computer ask this question? |
| 02:36.05 | ShirikPro | shouldn't the phone be asking that? |
| 02:36.35 | TC-Work | Ease of use |
| 02:36.44 | TC-Work | it still requires pw's and stuff |
| 02:36.58 | TC-Work | also Shirik https://creative.adobe.com/plans/offer/photoshop+lightroom |
| 02:42.11 | foxlit | normally, the *phone* is asking that, Shirik. |
| 02:42.18 | ShirikPro | exactly |
| 02:42.32 | foxlit | maybe it's opposite day wherever you are. |
| 02:43.00 | Arrowmaster | maybe it was opposite day when apple implemented security features |
| 02:43.09 | foxlit | it worked fine for me. |
| 02:43.24 | ShirikPro | I don't know what I did |
| 02:44.53 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:45.16 | Neffi | wat |
| 02:53.04 | foxlit | can't get names of those pets if you haven't seen them before. |
| 02:55.53 | kd3 | ha |
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| 03:05.18 | sintAcks | [Torhal] sintAcks: DBM? |
| 03:05.19 | sintAcks | ? |
| 03:05.42 | sintAcks | oh, yes. dbm |
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| 03:15.17 | Arrowmaster | so they demolished the wrong historical landmark today http://urbanup.net/2013/11/22/dayton-daily-news-building-partially-demolished-13-photos/ |
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| 03:40.38 | Sintacks | hmm. i wonder how hard it would be to add namelink thingy in the print from spamalyzer... |
| 03:41.45 | bleeter | Arrowmaster: oops |
| 03:41.49 | Neffi | if it already prints the name, probably not hard |
| 03:45.03 | Sintacks | it does print the name, yes |
| 03:56.22 | karl_w_w | that explanation of the situation is extremely hard to follow Arrowmaster |
| 03:57.33 | Arrowmaster | it is |
| 03:59.25 | VIad | Steve |
| 04:17.13 | karl_w_w | yes VIad? |
| 04:57.23 | Dagmar | Man... The watermarking on ESO to make sure no one releases screenshots is *super subtle* |
| 05:18.12 | Dagmar | JOHN FUCKING CLEESE |
| 05:25.28 | karl_w_w | Dagmar? |
| 05:26.49 | Thunder_Child | Dagmar: The prophet? |
| 05:28.00 | karl_w_w | today's google doodle is awesome |
| 05:29.09 | Dagmar | karl_w_w: A god damn good voice actor in a game. Imagine that |
| 05:29.58 | Thunder_Child | Dagmar: Ah yes, I found him |
| 05:30.43 | Thunder_Child | Dagmar: Although Morrowind had Stewart |
| 05:31.02 | Dagmar | Yes but somehow Cleese is more appropriate to this setting |
| 05:31.24 | Dagmar | ....and hell, I bought The Secret World because of just one character actor |
| 05:31.55 | Thunder_Child | I think Campbell would be good as well |
| 05:35.21 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (~RyanNL@adsl-74-226-71-173.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 05:45.17 | karl_w_w | Dagmar, games have had heaps of good voice actors |
| 05:49.01 | Dagmar | Yes, but recently there's been several with _really shitty ones_ |
| 05:49.19 | Dagmar | Champions Online and almost everything else using Hero Engine |
| 05:49.27 | Dagmar | Holy shit CO was bad |
| 05:50.05 | Dagmar | Until then I thought the most jarring thing I'd ever hear in a game was Gary Gygax's actual voice. |
| 05:50.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Antiarc (~Instantbi@ip68-109-131-126.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 05:55.31 | karl_w_w | wow new android keyboard |
| 05:55.48 | karl_w_w | dont even have to lift your finger to seperate words any more |
| 05:56.45 | karl_w_w | that'll take getting used to |
| 06:01.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Kemayo (~kemayo@75-132-56-160.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) |
| 06:08.50 | *** join/#wowuidev ShirikPro (~Shirik@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 06:08.50 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ShirikPro] by ChanServ |
| 06:10.50 | ShirikPro | ok foxlit for my ipad it did the right thing |
| 06:11.02 | ShirikPro | it said "this computer hasn't been given trust. Please tap on the ipad to grant trust." |
| 06:12.40 | Fisker | BTW ShirikPro |
| 06:13.01 | ShirikPro | hey Fisker |
| 06:13.01 | Fisker | why do you use the wrong airport? |
| 06:13.05 | ShirikPro | wat |
| 06:13.23 | Fisker | don't think I don't read news |
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| 06:15.47 | Neffi | Shirik: http://img.thedailywtf.com/images/13/q4/e91/Pic-6.png |
| 06:16.24 | ShirikPro | uh |
| 06:16.39 | ShirikPro | I'm going to assume that means they did something like static_cast<Foo*>(NULL)->bar(); |
| 06:16.59 | Neffi | or they're bad at C++ |
| 06:17.13 | Fisker | c++ is bad |
| 06:17.19 | ShirikPro | your face is bad |
| 06:17.25 | ShirikPro | I actually spent the evening writing some epic C++ code |
| 06:17.34 | Fisker | you're mean; ( |
| 06:17.59 | ShirikPro | :( |
| 06:18.06 | ShirikPro | I'm on the east coast |
| 06:18.08 | ShirikPro | I'm supposed to be mean |
| 06:19.28 | ShirikPro | so my hotel AND my car got upgraded |
| 06:19.47 | ShirikPro | they gave me a charger lol |
| 06:21.12 | Fisker | apple would never do that |
| 06:24.59 | Fisker | I like you ShirikPro |
| 06:25.15 | ShirikPro | <3 |
| 06:25.21 | Fisker | :) |
| 06:25.37 | Fisker | I won't murder you next blizzcon |
| 06:31.52 | Sintacks | so |
| 06:31.54 | Sintacks | i was dreaming |
| 06:31.56 | Sintacks | of bad code |
| 06:31.57 | Sintacks | that wouldn't work |
| 06:31.57 | Sintacks | :( |
| 06:32.06 | Sintacks | it kept looping |
| 06:32.35 | Fisker | I was dreaming about infecting our network with a virus and ruining a server |
| 06:34.38 | Torhal | Sintacks: l2IRC |
| 06:36.01 | Fisker | hey Torhal |
| 06:36.16 | Torhal | Are you certain, Fisker? |
| 06:36.31 | Fisker | yes |
| 06:36.33 | Torhal | I'm afraid you may have been compromised by ShirikPro's Epic C++ code. |
| 06:36.34 | Fisker | btw Sintacks |
| 06:36.38 | Fisker | give me all your money |
| 06:36.53 | ShirikPro | it's ok |
| 06:36.59 | ShirikPro | my epic code can't infinite loop |
| 06:37.03 | ShirikPro | it could take a year to compile though |
| 06:37.45 | Torhal | You adhere to JPL standards? |
| 06:38.26 | ShirikPro | no it's just template metaprogramming |
| 06:38.33 | ShirikPro | so after it's compiled it's just a constant |
| 06:38.59 | Torhal | Oh! I had it completely wrong; you're just a madman. |
| 06:41.04 | ShirikPro | lol |
| 06:41.16 | ShirikPro | oh it gets better |
| 06:41.23 | ShirikPro | it's C++11 metaprogramming, with variadic templates and all |
| 06:41.27 | ShirikPro | it's quite beautiful |
| 06:41.32 | tz | that's the best kind |
| 06:42.40 | ShirikPro | I think the magnet on the macbook charger is a little too weak |
| 06:45.20 | TGiFallen | Wow will only load tgas and blps, right? |
| 06:46.02 | Corv | Last I checked. |
| 06:46.08 | TGiFallen | kk ty |
| 06:46.09 | Fisker | get a surface pro 2 ShirikPro |
| 06:46.19 | ShirikPro | noty |
| 06:46.47 | ShirikPro | TGiFallen: You can load other things too. But they get optimized into large blue boxes. |
| 06:47.08 | TGiFallen | ahh, thank you shirik |
| 06:47.14 | ShirikPro | don't thank me for that |
| 06:47.17 | ShirikPro | that was motly trolling |
| 06:47.27 | ShirikPro | if you try to load something else, you'll just end up getting a blue box |
| 06:47.44 | ShirikPro | the "I couldn't load this" texture |
| 06:47.49 | Corv | I thought it was green? Or is green specifically "missing file"? |
| 06:47.51 | Torhal | You're too Doctor Who oriented, ShirikPro - it's a green box. |
| 06:47.52 | ShirikPro | oh |
| 06:47.54 | ShirikPro | green maybe |
| 06:48.15 | ShirikPro | I never make coding mistakes so I don't see it often |
| 06:48.22 | Torhal | Hahahaha |
| 06:50.38 | Fisker | If you don't get a surface pro 2 ShirikPro |
| 06:50.42 | Fisker | I still love you |
| 06:51.10 | ShirikPro | <3 |
| 06:51.50 | ShirikPro | is the time actually 1:51 eastern? |
| 06:51.55 | ShirikPro | how does my laptop know this |
| 06:52.04 | Cairenn | 1:53, actually |
| 06:52.14 | ShirikPro | point is why is it not on pacific time |
| 06:52.47 | Fisker | magic ShirikPro |
| 06:53.30 | Fisker | I'm guessing wifi location service |
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| 06:56.00 | Fisker | ShirikPro doesn't believe the magic |
| 06:56.07 | ShirikPro | magic is scary |
| 06:56.37 | ShirikPro | ~ping |
| 06:56.37 | purl | ~pong |
| 06:58.38 | ShirikPro | ok sleep time |
| 06:58.42 | Sintacks | |01:34:36 am| [Torhal] Sintacks: l2IRC |
| 06:58.44 | Sintacks | what's an irc |
| 06:59.24 | ShirikPro | well it's an RC |
| 06:59.27 | ShirikPro | but it's owned by apple |
| 06:59.31 | ShirikPro | iRC |
| 06:59.42 | Sintacks | lol |
| 06:59.52 | Sintacks | That's actually my version reply.. |
| 07:00.03 | Fisker | It's cold here |
| 07:00.14 | ShirikPro | ~weather KIND |
| 07:00.23 | ShirikPro | purl: stop slacking |
| 07:00.24 | purl | ACTION leaps to his feet and stops slacking |
| 07:00.35 | ShirikPro | thank you |
| 07:00.37 | ShirikPro | very helpful |
| 07:01.11 | Sintacks | ... forgot 13 ,'s when adding things to the prefixes table.... |
| 07:01.36 | Fisker | http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=weather+faxe <-see how cold it is ShirikPro |
| 07:02.26 | ShirikPro | result: data not available |
| 07:02.30 | ShirikPro | it's so cold the servers froze |
| 07:02.48 | TGiFallen | wouldn't the cold make them run more efficiently? |
| 07:02.50 | Fisker | yep |
| 07:03.02 | Fisker | depends on how cold TGiFallen |
| 07:03.42 | TGiFallen | i'm guessing at near absolute zero it messes with circuits because tiny spots of superconductivity appear within it? |
| 07:03.53 | ShirikPro | they'll fail far before that |
| 07:04.31 | TGiFallen | i see |
| 07:04.56 | ShirikPro | temperature very radically alters transistors' behavior |
| 07:05.07 | ShirikPro | hence why there are military spec ones |
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| 07:06.57 | ShirikPro | ok sleep time for realsies now |
| 07:13.09 | Corv | Hmm. No way to make a frame selectively "transparent" to specific mouse buttons, eh? |
| 07:15.03 | Fisker | bye ShirikPro |
| 07:25.04 | Semlar | if you mean click through then no |
| 07:25.23 | Gnarfoz | whee, I r back! |
| 07:30.05 | Corv | Thanks yet again, Semlar. So full of knowledge you are! |
| 07:30.51 | Semlar | if you enable the mouse on a frame it'll just intercept all clicks |
| 07:31.27 | Corv | Yeah, that's what I'm seeing, just wanted to check if I missed something. |
| 07:33.30 | Semlar | you could do something like watch for a modifier key and only enable the mouse while it's held down |
| 07:33.52 | Corv | Step ahead of you, now! =P |
| 07:40.11 | Sintacks | that could be interseting though. |
| 07:40.13 | Sintacks | fuck tpying |
| 07:40.27 | Sintacks | i think i'd be cool if i could rightclick through grid so i can turn |
| 07:40.29 | Sintacks | without moving mouse |
| 07:40.37 | Sintacks | but still click |
| 07:40.46 | Sintacks | and still have it be a [@mouseover] target |
| 07:46.31 | Corv | Just modifier-disabling mouse input will be "interesting" enough. |
| 07:47.32 | Semlar | for something like grid you'd have to do it securely |
| 07:48.21 | Corv | I think I'm good without secure stuff. But that is a topic I should learn about. |
| 07:49.11 | Corv | Why the ass is paint.net a paint sales website and not friggin Paint.NET goddamnit internet |
| 07:50.41 | Sintacks | lol |
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| 09:32.33 | zenzelezz | those moments when you on to some MMO and decide to run around town just buffing everyone's runspeed |
| 09:33.10 | zenzelezz | +log somewhere in there |
| 09:41.31 | Semlar | you can do that as a priest |
| 09:45.04 | Corv | I don't know that this will end anywhere productive but I'm having a good time |
| 09:45.05 | Corv | https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZvylq5CAAAAYOI.jpg:large |
| 09:47.33 | Semlar | form AND function |
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| 09:54.25 | Mr_Rabies | every addon should have a baby seal mode |
| 09:55.03 | Corv | I'm considering exporting the baby seal to its own addon. |
| 09:55.15 | Mr_Rabies | take off the other ui elements, put in a few more mid-sized baby seals and you've got a warhol masterpiece |
| 09:55.24 | Corv | It will probably have fewer than... uh, looks like about 44k seals though |
| 09:55.37 | Corv | The client takes a while to generate all these babies |
| 09:58.54 | Semlar | you can tile a texture with one texture though |
| 09:59.20 | Corv | That would have been the smart way to test my sizing, I suppose. |
| 10:01.43 | Semlar | you can use texture:SetTexCoord(0, 10, 0, 10) or something |
| 10:02.11 | Corv | Ultimately, the seal was just a dummy texture to illustrate the size. |
| 10:02.32 | Semlar | might need to use texture:SetHorizTile(true) and texture:SetVertTile(true) i don't really remember |
| 10:03.14 | Semlar | i've only ever had to do this like once |
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| 11:51.50 | VIad | not so fond of the in-game store thing going on, I barely like the blizzard store, but in-game... it's a monthly fee game, I don't feel it requires such stores that are more free to play model tbh |
| 11:53.57 | nevcairiel | it doesnt sell any game changing things, so it doesnt matter |
| 12:01.03 | VIad | for now :P |
| 12:01.45 | nevcairiel | they build the shop for asian wow, where the rules are quite a bit different |
| 12:01.51 | nevcairiel | in china it even is f2p |
| 12:01.55 | VIad | : |
| 12:01.56 | VIad | :o |
| 12:02.20 | nevcairiel | might as well enable it in EU/US now that they have it |
| 12:14.22 | karl_w_w | it's not f2p in china |
| 12:14.39 | karl_w_w | they pay by the hour or something like that |
| 12:15.59 | nevcairiel | maybe it changed when they changed partner company again |
| 12:16.03 | nevcairiel | it was free at some point |
| 12:22.56 | *** join/#wowuidev ShirikPro (~Shirik@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 12:22.56 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ShirikPro] by ChanServ |
| 12:45.04 | *** join/#wowuidev ShirikPro (~Shirik@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 12:45.04 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ShirikPro] by ChanServ |
| 12:51.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Sajaki (~Sajaki@109.133.142.207) |
| 13:14.10 | foxlit | I'm not keeping up with the .2 changes, but can the store now ask you for an authenticator code? |
| 13:16.34 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 13:28.13 | *** join/#wowuidev ShirikPro (~Shirik@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 13:28.13 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ShirikPro] by ChanServ |
| 13:32.57 | Fisker | rolls all over ShirikPro |
| 13:33.42 | Torhal | You're not a dog, Fisker, and ShirikPro isn't your poo. What ARE you doing? |
| 13:33.51 | Fisker | hey Torhal |
| 13:33.53 | Fisker | cease and desist |
| 13:34.04 | Torhal | I'm afraid that's beyond my capabilities. |
| 13:34.09 | Torhal | I'm locked in. |
| 13:34.10 | Fisker | oh :( |
| 13:34.17 | Torhal | I blame Alram, really. |
| 13:34.46 | Alram | literally hitler |
| 13:34.54 | Torhal | Whoah, man. |
| 13:34.58 | Torhal | That escalated quickly. |
| 13:36.19 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 13:37.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Hazal (~Mikkel@0x5e910d43.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 13:58.55 | *** join/#wowuidev ShirikPro (~Shirik@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 13:58.55 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ShirikPro] by ChanServ |
| 14:15.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~Funkeh`@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 14:15.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Droolio (~drool@host86-134-63-203.range86-134.btcentralplus.com) |
| 14:23.53 | Sintacks | reinstalling wow again... cuz it's started locking up again ... |
| 14:25.03 | Sintacks | |01:36:32 am| [Fisker] btw Sintacks |
| 14:25.03 | Sintacks | |01:36:35 am| [Fisker] give me all your money |
| 14:25.04 | Sintacks | like i have money |
| 14:26.22 | Sintacks | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdzE4ks3lHo |
| 14:32.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Ressy (~Ressy@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ARL/Ressy) |
| 14:41.32 | *** join/#wowuidev ShirikPro (~Shirik@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 14:41.32 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ShirikPro] by ChanServ |
| 14:42.19 | *** join/#wowuidev ShirikPro (~Shirik@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 14:42.19 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ShirikPro] by ChanServ |
| 14:48.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@client00620.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 14:48.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 14:50.28 | Fisker | then I will have to murder you Sintacks |
| 14:58.22 | foxlit | http://www.google.com/moderator/ << I wonder. |
| 15:04.02 | Fisker | Why? |
| 15:15.12 | *** join/#wowuidev ShirikPro (~Shirik@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 15:15.12 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ShirikPro] by ChanServ |
| 15:18.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik|Ghost (~Shirik@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 15:18.22 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik|Ghost] by ChanServ |
| 15:19.54 | karl_w_w | "The uploader has not made this video available in your country." |
| 15:19.59 | karl_w_w | such a hater Sintacks |
| 15:20.58 | Shirik|Ghost | owned |
| 15:22.42 | Sintacks | sucks to be you, karl_w_w |
| 15:23.13 | Sintacks | karl_w_w, http://teamcoco.com/video/73738/conan-plays-world-of-warcraft-at-blizzcon-13 |
| 15:23.15 | Sintacks | that link work? |
| 15:23.25 | Sintacks | cuz someone said that that link should work for you non-US peoples |
| 15:23.49 | Sintacks | but what do i know |
| 15:24.38 | Ressy | It does work for non-US peoples |
| 15:26.58 | pompy | Torhal: https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1469935_10152025052287888_1551756326_n.jpg |
| 15:27.48 | Fisker | does not work like that pompy |
| 15:27.59 | Fisker | why won't you be my friend Ackis? |
| 15:28.09 | Sintacks | cuz ur too mad, Fisker |
| 15:28.43 | Fisker | I'm not mad Sintacks |
| 15:29.00 | Sintacks | so mad you don't even notice you're mad |
| 15:29.54 | Fisker | I'm not mad Sintacks |
| 15:30.12 | Sintacks | y u mad tho |
| 15:31.26 | Fisker | I'm not mad Sintacks |
| 15:31.45 | Sintacks | I just wish you could figure out a way to get over your madness and be happy. |
| 15:32.04 | Fisker | I'm not mad Sintacks |
| 15:32.45 | karl_w_w | omg it's true |
| 15:32.46 | karl_w_w | it works |
| 15:33.09 | Sintacks | cuz youtube are assholes and teamcoco are not. and they own it. so they can do whatever the fuck they want with it. |
| 15:33.31 | Sintacks | even though it's posted by teamcoco on youtube... |
| 15:33.37 | Sintacks | so idk |
| 15:51.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (~Tuller@c-76-21-187-154.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 15:54.05 | pompy | so why must you HAVE AN ACCOUNT to see instagram photos of people? |
| 15:55.39 | *** join/#wowuidev ShirikPro (~Shirik@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 15:55.40 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ShirikPro] by ChanServ |
| 15:56.09 | Tuller | because then you've removed a barrier for posting your own photos |
| 15:56.23 | foxlit | plus access control and stuff. |
| 16:08.21 | pompy | Torhal: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=585995504788478&set=a.414413855279978.99986.276710412383657&type=1 |
| 16:09.27 | pompy | ahh http://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/28445/i-dont-have-an-instagram-account-can-i-still-look-at-users-instagram-photos |
| 16:13.26 | Sajaki | hey how do i open the console in wow ? |
| 16:13.35 | Sajaki | ~ doesnt work |
| 16:13.49 | foxlit | http://wowpedia.org/Console |
| 16:13.51 | TC-Work | I thought you had to enable it first |
| 16:13.59 | Tuller | yes |
| 16:14.00 | TC-Work | with a switch or somesuch |
| 16:17.05 | Sajaki | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:17.08 | Sajaki | found it |
| 16:17.38 | Fisker | hey Tuller |
| 16:17.44 | Tuller | hello |
| 16:19.33 | Sajaki | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:19.38 | Sajaki | unknown command |
| 16:20.46 | foxlit | http://wowpedia.org/Viewing_Blizzard%27s_interface_code |
| 16:21.40 | Sajaki | ok i get it you need to be logged out in wow |
| 16:29.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaylin (~Kaylin@c-71-231-142-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 16:32.23 | TC-Work | A program I just uninstalled gave me a captcha during the uninstall.....Now that is anoying, |
| 16:36.16 | Sintacks | lol wat |
| 16:36.17 | Sintacks | what program? |
| 16:39.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Xandr (~Xandr@89.101.75.36) |
| 16:39.16 | Sintacks | 5.402 - release (23 November 2013): |
| 16:39.16 | Sintacks | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:39.19 | Sintacks | Y U DO DAT |
| 16:42.11 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@2601:a:f00:1f:e161:da50:5878:9aff) |
| 16:42.11 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 16:44.24 | foxlit | dammit, storm peaks. why won't it snow? |
| 16:44.49 | nevcairiel | go to dun morogh, snows there all the time |
| 16:45.38 | foxlit | no fox kits in dun morogh, though. |
| 16:45.51 | nevcairiel | they only come out when its snowing? |
| 16:45.55 | foxlit | yep. |
| 16:46.08 | foxlit | surely this problem must've been solved by gnomish engineering already. |
| 16:47.45 | TC-Work | sintAcks: Some silly borderline adware chrome plugin |
| 16:47.53 | TC-Work | I don't remember the name |
| 16:47.55 | *** join/#wowuidev g0urra (~g0urra@unaffiliated/gourra) |
| 17:02.56 | *** join/#wowuidev ShirikPro (~Shirik@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 17:02.56 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ShirikPro] by ChanServ |
| 17:03.05 | karl_w_w | http://www.darklegacycomics.com/416.html so many pokeballs |
| 17:06.15 | *** join/#wowuidev ZorbaBeta (tocohl@maximilian.pavlovian.net) |
| 17:07.50 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-50-166-85-212.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 17:16.13 | TGiFallen | does anyone know if there is an extra icon pack out there? not icon replacements but entirely new icons for differnet uses? |
| 17:21.46 | sintAcks | 25+25+25+25 |
| 17:21.50 | sintAcks | er |
| 17:22.44 | sintAcks | icons for what/ |
| 17:22.50 | sintAcks | TGiFallen, ^ |
| 17:23.09 | sintAcks | the only "extra icons" i can think of are the raid markers. |
| 17:23.19 | TGiFallen | uhh, various thinkgs like raid markers, a voice chat icon |
| 17:23.37 | sintAcks | i'm sure you can find the voice chat icon somewhere |
| 17:26.50 | foxlit | I think the point was new graphics, not existing ones? |
| 17:26.58 | foxlit | (in wow) |
| 17:28.52 | sintAcks | Semlar.... |
| 17:29.06 | TGiFallen | yes it was foxlit, |
| 17:29.22 | sintAcks | dis addon said i had 3 friends. and then i had 1. and said i lost someone...but they weren't in my friends list to begin with |
| 17:30.34 | sintAcks | er.. said i had 2 |
| 17:33.06 | sintAcks | it did it again |
| 17:33.08 | sintAcks | o.O |
| 17:33.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen (~Sixen@ip24-255-9-95.tc.ph.cox.net) |
| 17:33.54 | zenzelezz | friendships can be fleeting |
| 17:40.11 | karl_w_w | sintAcks has abandonment issues |
| 17:40.16 | sintAcks | :( |
| 17:40.51 | Fisker | tackles Sixen |
| 17:41.02 | sintAcks | rapes Fisker |
| 17:44.15 | Fisker | Word of advice, don't |
| 17:45.32 | *** join/#wowuidev ShirikPro (~Shirik@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 17:45.33 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ShirikPro] by ChanServ |
| 17:50.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~RyanNL@adsl-74-226-71-173.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 17:50.50 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 17:51.57 | *** join/#wowuidev ShirikPro (~Shirik@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 17:51.57 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ShirikPro] by ChanServ |
| 17:53.17 | zenzelezz | don't fall for the marketing, it's really just a slightly higher clock rate Shirik |
| 18:05.34 | *** join/#wowuidev karl_w_w (~Karl@61.116.96.58.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 18:06.38 | *** join/#wowuidev ZorbaTHut (tocohl@maximilian.pavlovian.net) |
| 18:10.19 | Kesava | why |
| 18:10.23 | Kesava | doesn't my camera move speed save |
| 18:10.39 | Kesava | mouse look speed* |
| 18:10.45 | Kesava | gah |
| 18:11.39 | Neffi | is config.wtf read-only? |
| 18:12.06 | Kesava | oh, i know why. |
| 18:12.30 | Kesava | i completely forgot i made something to spin to camera slowly when i'm afk.. which changes the camera speed back to some old value. |
| 18:14.12 | Kesava | i've had that since.. bc or something |
| 18:14.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Silvanas (~bot@ip73-40-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 18:14.30 | Silvanas | hello, good evening |
| 18:15.39 | Neffi | hello, good god it's early |
| 18:16.35 | Neffi | wtf http://i.imgur.com/KxA09A2.gif |
| 18:16.43 | Kaelten | So I'm high on hydro-codone and psuedoephidrine .. Is this the right time to do more metatable programming? |
| 18:17.02 | Silvanas | i need a few years more of programming skills, and then i need to write a book, a book about why premature optimisations are good :FD |
| 18:17.13 | Ressy | Kaelten: Possibly not. |
| 18:17.40 | kd3 | is there a better time, kaelten? |
| 18:18.38 | Neffi | Kaelten: Do that programming, but set it aside to look over when you're sober |
| 18:18.58 | Neffi | It'll either look brilliant, or really out-there |
| 18:19.02 | *** join/#wowuidev karl_w_w (~Karl@61.116.96.58.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 18:19.35 | Silvanas | lua_but, can i aks you some questions in private? |
| 18:19.40 | Silvanas | oke |
| 18:20.19 | sintAcks | so Silvanas, you figure out what you're going to do with addon comms? =p |
| 18:21.51 | Kaelten | Silvanas: my favorite fallacy I would love to debunk is that the cloud is a magical panacea for all your IT woes |
| 18:22.39 | Stanzilla | I just read falaffel |
| 18:22.50 | kd3 | this generation's thin client? |
| 18:22.57 | Silvanas | sintAcks: yes, i am major fan of premature optimisation and proud of my base254, so il get it work :D |
| 18:27.25 | Silvanas | and if you eman the event registering, iv registered 1 event for my addon |
| 18:38.16 | foxlit | "It's not 44 bits of entropy when you're using a dictionary attack that checks for combinations of 3-5 existing words." |
| 18:39.48 | Neffi | it's not delivery, it's DiGiorno |
| 18:41.09 | foxlit | (I can't understand what sort of confusion would cause someone to misunderstand things so badly) |
| 18:41.38 | kd3 | er |
| 18:42.18 | Fisker | hey pompy |
| 18:42.51 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@2601:a:f00:1f:e161:da50:5878:9aff) |
| 18:42.51 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 18:46.30 | karl_w_w | quick Kaelten, put it in the cloud |
| 18:48.54 | *** join/#wowuidev ShirikPro (~Shirik@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 18:48.55 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ShirikPro] by ChanServ |
| 18:48.58 | *** join/#wowuidev karl_w_w (~Karl@61.116.96.58.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 18:52.58 | karl_w_w | the cloud let me down |
| 18:53.28 | karl_w_w | it must be down |
| 18:55.39 | *** join/#wowuidev ShirikPro (~Shirik@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 18:55.39 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ShirikPro] by ChanServ |
| 18:55.43 | ShirikPro | hi zenzelezz |
| 18:55.50 | ShirikPro | are you saying I have a higher clock rate? |
| 18:56.12 | ShirikPro | I mean an overclocked Shirik is pretty awesome |
| 19:00.05 | Dagmar | ...at least until you overheat and molten brains leak out your nose. |
| 19:01.51 | karl_w_w | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeCM7LiThEs dr who-y interview with the moffat |
| 19:02.09 | Neffi | That'd have to be a pretty aggressive overclock |
| 19:02.20 | Neffi | The brain uses ~25 watts. That's not much heat to dissipate. |
| 19:04.53 | Neffi | And it only took a couple billion years to engineer a computer with that kind of performance-per-watt |
| 19:05.04 | Neffi | We're on a pretty good track considering we might hit that in 100 years |
| 19:15.40 | *** join/#wowuidev MysticalOS (~Myst@h108.3.40.162.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) |
| 19:15.56 | Silvanas | dagmar, your name reminds me of a hardcore dj |
| 19:23.16 | Silvanas | not sure if this is a bug or intended, but it seems lua_bot can get (interger overflows?) without giving an error |
| 19:24.43 | Silvanas | the lua demo on lua.org does do it correctly |
| 19:28.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Kodiack (~Colton@97-86-234-157.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) |
| 19:37.05 | Neffi | I think you're right, Silvanas |
| 19:37.19 | Neffi | I ran an example the other day that should have resulted in an error, but didn't |
| 19:37.31 | Silvanas | yeh i am |
| 19:37.32 | Silvanas | lua> string.format("%X", 1061406587114) |
| 19:37.33 | lua_bot | Silvanas: 20C338EA |
| 19:37.45 | Silvanas | lua> tonumber("20C338EA", 16) |
| 19:37.45 | lua_bot | Silvanas: 549665002 |
| 19:37.48 | *** join/#wowuidev ShirikPro (~Shirik@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 19:37.48 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ShirikPro] by ChanServ |
| 19:38.32 | Neffi | This should result in a C stack overflow, and I just confirmed that it does on Lua 5.1.4 |
| 19:38.34 | Neffi | lua> getmetatable('').__index=function(s,i) return s:sub(i,i) end; local s='abcdefg'; print(s[3]) |
| 19:38.34 | lua_bot | Neffi: nil |
| 19:38.55 | Neffi | So lua_bot does not handle errors correctly |
| 19:39.13 | foxlit | maybe it just doesn't like you, personally. |
| 19:39.19 | Neffi | mebe |
| 19:39.31 | foxlit | Just because it doesn't do what you think it should doesn't make it wrong :) |
| 19:39.48 | Silvanas | i am surprised getmetatable works on empty string in the first place :D |
| 19:39.49 | Neffi | It's wrong in reference Lua, so yes it does |
| 19:40.13 | Neffi | Silvanas: Strings have a metatable whose __index points to the string library |
| 19:40.15 | foxlit | oh you, Neffi. |
| 19:40.33 | Neffi | This definitely ought to error, because s:sub(i,i) will invoke __index repeatedly |
| 19:40.34 | Silvanas | oww so thartt how those :sub things work |
| 19:40.36 | foxlit | For your case, I'd have to modify it to "just because it doesn't do what you think it should doesn't make your analysis correct." |
| 19:40.50 | Neffi | Silvanas: aye. As you see, you can change the metatable, and it's a bad idea to do. |
| 19:41.09 | Silvanas | they why didnt they do it with the table meta table :D |
| 19:41.15 | Neffi | foxlit: But my analysis is correct |
| 19:41.23 | foxlit | that it doesn't handle errors properly? |
| 19:41.38 | Neffi | Silvanas: Because then all tables would have a metatable by default. That's wrong. |
| 19:41.56 | Neffi | Tables are a broad-use object. The programmer is responsible for defining their behavior. |
| 19:42.12 | Neffi | foxlit: That it doesn't report errors correctly, yes |
| 19:42.16 | foxlit | lua> function a() a() end a() print("oh no") |
| 19:42.17 | lua_bot | foxlit: luabot:1: stack overflow |
| 19:42.26 | Neffi | See my example |
| 19:42.32 | Neffi | It doesn't catch some errors |
| 19:42.41 | foxlit | You're still adorable :) |
| 19:42.46 | Neffi | thankx |
| 19:42.51 | Silvanas | same with my interget overflow it doesnt get reported either |
| 19:43.11 | foxlit | one wrong person at a time, please :) |
| 19:43.19 | Silvanas | i was first oO! |
| 19:43.28 | Neffi | foxlit: I'm still not wrong. Run it on any other reference implementation of Lua. |
| 19:43.46 | Neffi | `C stack overflow` |
| 19:43.52 | foxlit | lua> getmetatable('').__index = function() print('This never runs') end print(('a')[0]) |
| 19:43.52 | lua_bot | foxlit: nil |
| 19:44.08 | Silvanas | well we could agrue that lua bot runs a different version of lua so that it technicly does what it is meant todo :D |
| 19:44.22 | foxlit | In other words, there's nothing wrong with the bot's error reporting. It's just not giving you the real string metatable, making your code do absolutely nothing interesting. |
| 19:45.42 | Neffi | Then it's not a reference implementation, so it's not 100% accurate |
| 19:46.15 | foxlit | I believe my point was that "Neffi: So lua_bot does not handle errors correctly" was an incorrect conclusion supported by faulty reasoning |
| 19:47.26 | Neffi | I ran under the assumption that lua_bot implemented Lua |
| 19:47.39 | Neffi | So my reasoning wasn't necessarily faulty |
| 19:48.25 | foxlit | s/supported by faulty reasoning/based on general ignorance/ |
| 19:48.44 | Neffi | That'd be classified more as very particular ignorance |
| 19:49.31 | foxlit | more broadly, it's the "it doesn't do what I think it should" -> "it must be wrong for the reasons I think it is" jump that's problematic. |
| 19:49.41 | Neffi | I was however reading up on the Lua VM/interpreter last night, and I came to the conclusion that it's not overly hard to modify it in such a way that it doesn't always return error information |
| 19:49.48 | Neffi | So it seemed reasonable that this is what's happening |
| 19:50.27 | Neffi | For instance I assume lua_bot is sandboxed, so there's probably some modification to it, even if minor |
| 19:51.15 | foxlit | Silvanas: as for your case, the behaviour of string formatting with large/non-integer values is not defined anywhere. |
| 19:51.24 | Neffi | There obviously is modification. I was incorrect in the single assumption that the modification was to cause the string library to behave contrary to spec, and not to cause the error reporting to fault |
| 19:51.54 | foxlit | So truncating your double to an int32 is every bit as "correct" as throwing an error. |
| 19:52.25 | Silvanas | its not defined anywhere that it should not wor keither :D |
| 19:52.40 | Neffi | That's not what undefined means |
| 19:53.20 | Neffi | It's more like "something's going to happen, and that something is probably incidental or arbitrary and you shouldn't expect it to be reproducible" |
| 19:53.54 | foxlit | For extra fun, try the Mac wow client. |
| 19:54.11 | foxlit | It's way better than the Windows one :P |
| 19:55.42 | zenzelezz | how so? |
| 19:55.59 | Neffi | It costs twice as much, but it's damn pretty |
| 19:56.17 | Neffi | Oh and it's Unix but nobody actually cares |
| 19:56.23 | foxlit | _G[0/0] = 1 would throw an error. |
| 19:56.44 | Neffi | lua> _G[0/0] = 1 |
| 19:56.44 | lua_bot | Neffi: luabot:1: table index is NaN |
| 19:57.12 | Neffi | Doesn't do that on the Windows client? |
| 19:57.42 | foxlit | Nope. |
| 19:58.15 | foxlit | (you can also get the rng state in one call to random rather than two. Ahem.) |
| 20:00.36 | Fisker | so Ackis |
| 20:02.00 | kd3 | I'm shocked. I figured the channel would be dead as could be since the 50th special's going on |
| 20:02.52 | Fisker | can't watch it kd3 |
| 20:02.56 | Fisker | this country sucks |
| 20:03.03 | Fisker | they totally condone piracy |
| 20:05.42 | ccox | Tivo works wonders |
| 20:08.47 | Fisker | you would want to watch it live |
| 20:12.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (amarande@24-151-100-63.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 20:17.02 | ccox | I sense.. a great disturbance in the force.. as if geeks around the world stepped away from their computers, and turned on a TV. |
| 20:18.53 | zenzelezz | why would they |
| 20:19.26 | Silvanas | to watch game of thrones ? |
| 20:19.57 | TC-Work | Dr. Who would be my guess. |
| 20:20.41 | Silvanas | who? |
| 20:20.47 | TC-Work | Yes |
| 20:20.59 | Neffi | just "the Doctor" |
| 20:21.41 | Silvanas | anyone here a fan on black mesa? |
| 20:22.15 | TC-Work | What kind, Bladeless? Circular? |
| 20:27.55 | Silvanas | hmm i winder if string.format with like 5 paramters is faster then concatination, since i dont string.format needs to allocate 5 different strings |
| 20:28.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Sajaki (~Sajaki@109.133.142.207) |
| 20:28.47 | Neffi | It is |
| 20:29.00 | Neffi | It's also faster than concat'ing non-strings |
| 20:29.20 | Arrowmaster | shit its on now? |
| 20:29.34 | Cairenn | Arrowmaster: yes |
| 20:29.37 | kd3 | it started 40 minutes ago |
| 20:29.46 | Cairenn | and it's killing me to not watch it |
| 20:30.03 | Cairenn | so no spoilers folks! |
| 20:30.03 | Arrowmaster | so i should be able to get it downloaded before i have to leave to go over to my friends |
| 20:30.20 | Arrowmaster | i wonder if shes watching it now or if we can watch it during dinner |
| 20:30.30 | Silvanas | Neffi, what do you mean with concanating non strings? |
| 20:30.33 | Arrowmaster | have to go be an extra in a movie after dinner |
| 20:31.25 | Neffi | Silvanas: sex |
| 20:31.28 | Neffi | Silvanas: sec* |
| 20:31.33 | zenzelezz | ... |
| 20:31.35 | Fisker | atleast your country didn't decide you need to travel 60 miles or wait until christmas Cairenn :( |
| 20:31.45 | Cairenn | Fisker: ewww =/ |
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| 20:35.52 | Amarande | Silvanas, Game of Thrones doesn't come back for another four months or so |
| 20:38.34 | Neffi | Silvanas: Okay, concatenating is always faster than string.format for pure strings, but not if you mix in non-strings |
| 20:38.37 | Neffi | Silvanas: http://pastebin.com/5BeWxW2A |
| 20:39.26 | Arrowmaster | or if you have a lot of strings to concat |
| 20:39.50 | Neffi | Arrowmaster: See my paste |
| 20:39.55 | Neffi | I used 50 strings |
| 20:40.12 | Neffi | 6.973 sec with concat, 59.585 sec with string.format |
| 20:40.32 | Neffi | over 10 mill iterations |
| 20:40.50 | Arrowmaster | thats too major of a difference, somethings going on |
| 20:41.00 | Silvanas | intresting, since your add it could you try to see what happens if you insert those string to a table and concat the table? |
| 20:41.03 | Neffi | the story may very well change with large strings |
| 20:41.15 | Neffi | This is on the refernece Lua 5.1.4 interpreter |
| 20:41.33 | Neffi | Silvanas: Concating the table is probably faster |
| 20:42.08 | Neffi | It probably comes out faster no matter what. But even if it doesn't, it's still faster in practice because it doesn't churn the garbage collector as much |
| 20:42.13 | Silvanas | yeh but inserting inot the table.. probely ruins the speed |
| 20:42.22 | Neffi | lemme give you an example |
| 20:42.33 | Arrowmaster | yeah ive done the table before, i made a giant table and concated it at the end |
| 20:42.41 | Arrowmaster | was so much faster than string.format |
| 20:43.17 | Arrowmaster | this was for a saved var parser though so the input/output was huge |
| 20:44.40 | Neffi | Silvanas: http://pastebin.com/MhmPFdG8 |
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| 20:45.02 | Neffi | You have to remember that every modification to a string creates an entirely new string |
| 20:45.27 | Neffi | And the raw numbers you get when you're running it standalone doesn't reflect the performance you'd get in the WoW environment |
| 20:46.11 | Neffi | Because the garbage collector will have a much larger impact in WoW's performance, where more is going on. Moreoever, I don't think you'd see the slowdown from the GC in the interpreter, because it probably doesn't GC until after the test is complete. |
| 20:47.00 | Silvanas | yeh i knot table:concat is a fast opperation, but creating a table just to to concanate some string, is also creating waste |
| 20:47.18 | Neffi | A fraction of a kilobyte |
| 20:47.27 | Neffi | You create a lot of waste every time you create a new string |
| 20:47.44 | Silvanas | yes yes |
| 20:48.32 | Neffi | I don't know if: local s = 'a'..'b'..'c' would perform one concatenation or multiple ones |
| 20:48.40 | Neffi | so I can't speak to what impact that would have |
| 20:49.29 | Silvanas | yeh, i gues i got to instal a lua client :D to test myzelf |
| 20:49.42 | Neffi | You can do these tests in WoW |
| 20:49.44 | Neffi | get DevPAd |
| 20:50.24 | Silvanas | good point i used to have an addmin like that but i somehow lost it over time |
| 20:50.30 | Neffi | WoW does have some modifications to its Lua implementation, and we don't exactly know what those are, so you may run into gotchas where one thing is fast in the interpreter but slow in WoW |
| 20:50.48 | Neffi | Probably won't, but still something to consider |
| 20:51.19 | Silvanas | does devpad have set my step debugging ? |
| 20:51.40 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 20:51.46 | Neffi | what? |
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| 20:52.12 | Silvanas | step by step debugging :D |
| 20:52.32 | Neffi | I'm not sure what you mean by that |
| 20:53.15 | Silvanas | well not sure if you know visual studio, where you can debug code and inspect variables |
| 20:53.44 | Neffi | No, it doesn't do that |
| 20:53.58 | Neffi | I don't think it's possible in WoW. Last I checked, the debug lib is missing from WoW. |
| 20:55.18 | Silvanas | its one of my unfinshed addons that does that :D, |
| 20:55.59 | Neffi | Well Devpad is a text editor. It has what you expect like syntax highlighting. It's not an IDE |
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| 20:57.19 | Silvanas | i know it just reminded me at how awsome that addon would be if i finish it some day, but creating an entire IDE in lua is to mcuh for a single man like me to handle |
| 20:57.47 | Silvanas | i had the inspection of the variables work tho and also step by step debugging within a single function |
| 20:59.47 | Silvanas | did it all by taking a single segment of lua code from the function and ran it to loadstring and then executed it with its own environemtn with setfenvironment so i could still access all variables |
| 21:00.34 | Silvanas | bte tryed to run some performance tests in wow, i got DCéd as it took to long :D |
| 21:03.34 | Neffi | oh, don't use GetTime |
| 21:03.40 | Neffi | use debugprofilestop() |
| 21:04.10 | Neffi | GetTime only updates every screen frame now, so if you use as a loop counter you'll get an infinite loop |
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| 21:13.36 | Semlar | sintAcks: are you calling my addon a liar |
| 21:15.04 | nevcairiel | DW was quite brilliant |
| 21:16.03 | Silvanas | Neffy: tryed your profiling code in wow, string concatination: 895, string format: 14488, table concat: 14639 |
| 21:16.15 | Silvanas | so in my test table concat was the wurse :D |
| 21:16.41 | Arrowmaster | its over? and no spoilers |
| 21:17.02 | nevcairiel | I was in the cinema, its over here |
| 21:17.40 | Venara | It is Arrowmaster and it was quite brilliant |
| 21:17.44 | Venara | Hi btw :D |
| 21:18.03 | Venara | < Nils from BlizzCon |
| 21:18.17 | Arrowmaster | hey when did you guys get back |
| 21:18.45 | Semlar | sintAcks: i'm willing to bet it's from oqueue or something |
| 21:19.03 | Venara | Yesterday, though Gnarfoz was home several hours before I was. I got home about ~20 hours ago and I slept 13 of that :D |
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| 21:29.41 | nevcairiel | i think I'll watch it again tomorrow morning |
| 21:48.36 | foxlit | http://www.townlong-yak.com/little-battler/ << thoughts? |
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| 21:51.01 | Fisker | looks fine |
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| 21:54.28 | Gnarfoz | watching Blizzcon VoDs now before they're going off-line on Monday |
| 21:55.01 | Gnarfoz | and man, Russell Brower looks quite a bit like Arrowmaster :D |
| 21:56.13 | Gnarfoz | aaaand you can't hear a thing on the sound panel VoD :( |
| 21:56.44 | Gnarfoz | event sound must be hard |
| 21:59.46 | Gnarfoz | although the 30 s snippet http://www.loudr.fm/release/critical-hit-volume-one/GwTXG makes me think part of it might be the song itself :P |
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| 22:00.49 | Gnarfoz | or actually he looks like a mix between Arrowmaster and John Goodman |
| 22:00.58 | nevcairiel | was the sound panel worth watching? its like the only wow thing i havent seen |
| 22:01.35 | nevcairiel | since i mostly play with music on anyway :P |
| 22:01.44 | nevcairiel | (actual music, not game music) |
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| 22:03.25 | Stanzilla | was pretty boring |
| 22:03.58 | Stanzilla | guess I have to close my twitter client until I have watched doctor who today |
| 22:04.00 | Stanzilla | so many spoilers |
| 22:04.27 | Gnarfoz | just started watching, not sure what I'm in for yet, nevcairiel |
| 22:04.33 | nevcairiel | there is a doctor in it Stanzilla |
| 22:04.40 | Stanzilla | damn |
| 22:05.16 | nevcairiel | and clara is there of course |
| 22:05.44 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: I always play with my own music on, wow music has been disabled for 99% of my WoW time |
| 22:05.57 | Gnarfoz | hope there's still some interesting things in here |
| 22:06.14 | Gnarfoz | for example, new character models also get some new sounds |
| 22:06.31 | Gnarfoz | wasn't entirely expecting that |
| 22:06.46 | nevcairiel | so looking forward to the new models |
| 22:07.18 | nevcairiel | specifically, i wonder how they pull of the nightelve eyes, since they dont really have any, they just have a kind of glowing thing |
| 22:07.45 | Semlar | flashlights |
| 22:08.42 | Stanzilla | glowing balls |
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| 22:10.44 | nevcairiel | maybe they'll get eyes, that just glow |
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| 22:11.29 | Sajaki | hi does any1 know where the name mldkp came from ? i checked the web but all i get is dead links. but mizus supports it |
| 22:11.59 | Amarande | not sure what ML means, probably someone's name/toon/guild at some point I would hazard a guess |
| 22:12.01 | Fisker | stop hating me Ackis |
| 22:12.14 | Amarande | DKP stands for dragon kill points, and dates back to Everquest when basically all the raid bosses were, if I remember right, dragons |
| 22:12.14 | kd3 | I see references from 2007, so it's probably an ancient dkp addon |
| 22:12.31 | Semlar | master looter? |
| 22:12.38 | Gnarfoz | it was a guild's name afaik |
| 22:12.43 | nevcairiel | there was a whole thing called mlmods, somewhat like ctmods, and they just had a dkp addon |
| 22:13.04 | Amarande | I'm surprised anyone really still uses DKP anymore though, tbh |
| 22:13.22 | nevcairiel | the site they had long vanished |
| 22:13.31 | Semlar | all loot belongs to me |
| 22:13.42 | Amarande | loot these days is so specialised that typically (unless your raid is very unbalanced in class composition) there is maybe 2 or 3 way or so competition at most for 99% of items |
| 22:14.09 | Semlar | how is loot any more specialized now than it was before |
| 22:14.22 | Amarande | Semlar: mostly due to stat specialisation |
| 22:14.31 | Amarande | you used more stats in general back in the day |
| 22:14.49 | Amarande | now for instance agility, intellect, and strength gear are COMPLETELY separate, instead of shades of grey |
| 22:15.36 | Amarande | combine with gear usually being itemised for a given role (healer vs dps caster gear, tank vs dps physical gear) and it's pretty specialised, especially in comparison to the membership of a raid |
| 22:16.02 | Amarande | Agility/DPS/melee, say? Windwalker, rogue, or feral, and that's about it |
| 22:16.14 | Amarande | Agility/DPS/ranged? HEY THAT'S HUNTER GEAR! |
| 22:16.32 | Semlar | my 10 man is 2 hunters, 2 warlocks, 2 death knights, a shaman a paladin a warrior and a monk |
| 22:16.37 | Gnarfoz | what do you mean, specialized, Semlar? |
| 22:17.05 | Amarande | basically, the way the stats system dovetails with itemisation at present, you're just not normally going to have more than two or three people who are likely to even have use for an item |
| 22:17.29 | Amarande | and that's where you're going to hit a snag with DKP |
| 22:18.01 | Amarande | because modern WoW just runs into a lot more situations where you have such a limited pool of people for whom the item is of any real purpose whatsoever |
| 22:18.05 | Gnarfoz | Sajaki: the answer to your question appears to be: "MLdkp by Bulliwyf and Eris from Moonglade Lumberjacks" |
| 22:18.22 | Amarande | so, you run into the classic DKP snag scenario much more often |
| 22:18.34 | Amarande | aka: "this item is an upgrade for one or two members but they don't have DKP to buy it" |
| 22:18.54 | Amarande | either you shard it (which is stupid) or you let them have the item (at which point you start to gradually erode the point of having a loot currency system to begin with) |
| 22:20.30 | Amarande | I'm guessing this was less of a problem in, say, vanilla, where you had 40 people in a group competing for similarly limited drop quantities, so you probably much more often actually had to deal with several people wanting an item |
| 22:20.54 | kd3 | wow itemization was limited by the fact that devs didn't have itemization nailed down yet |
| 22:20.56 | kd3 | spirit on warrior gear? |
| 22:21.07 | Amarande | kd3: well, yeah, some stuff was just silly like that |
| 22:21.22 | nevcairiel | if it has spirit, its by definition not warrior gear :p |
| 22:21.29 | kd3 | and the fact that loot tables in MC had maybe 10 items in them? |
| 22:21.31 | Amarande | But even as late as Wrath, you had plate classes taking agility items at times |
| 22:21.34 | Semlar | we do it almost entirely by who it would be a bigger upgrade for |
| 22:21.53 | Amarande | In BC, you had prot pallies who needed to accommodate a certain modicum of spellpower in their gear in order to be effective enough |
| 22:21.55 | Amarande | etc. |
| 22:23.04 | Gnarfoz | http://www.screenshots.com/moonglade-lumberjacks.net/2008-11-10 Sajaki |
| 22:23.44 | Amarande | which is probably a better example of stat fuzziness |
| 22:24.22 | Amarande | Since for the most part, plate classes taking agi items in Wrath was kind of a necessary evil more than anything else (mainly due to there not being any 1H Str DPS based weapons in Wrath) |
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| 22:27.30 | Sajaki | reason i was asking is i'm making bbdkp, a fork of eqdkp. so i need to update mizusraidtracker or somesuch wow addon. |
| 22:28.41 | Gnarfoz | good luck, I don't get the feeling that very many people are even still using dkp |
| 22:29.07 | Gnarfoz | but - there's current loot tracking addons with eq/ml/whateverdkp export functionality |
| 22:30.16 | Gnarfoz | btw, are you forking the original eqdkp? even though eqdkp+ is horrible (or at least 0.x was, I haven't actually looked at 1.0, they recently finished that after just 4 or 5 years), it was way more fleshed out that eqdkp ever was |
| 22:30.38 | Gnarfoz | s/out that/out than/ |
| 22:31.23 | foxlit | <naive>how difficult would rewriting the whole thing form scratch be? It seems like something you could finish in two afternoons.</naive> |
| 22:31.44 | Gnarfoz | they're a bunch of headless morons, and it's in php |
| 22:32.10 | Gnarfoz | also, they're not as driven as you are, probably :P |
| 22:32.42 | nevcairiel | the basic dkp tracking functionality can probably be done in a few hours |
| 22:32.51 | nevcairiel | maybe add raid scheduling on top on another afternoon |
| 22:33.15 | Gnarfoz | that sounds pretty optimistic, but some of you guys do this for a living, I don't get that impression from the eqdkp+ guys |
| 22:33.18 | nevcairiel | i would probably be stuck on the layout the logest |
| 22:34.33 | Gnarfoz | (it's also highly customizable, themeable, modularized, has a plugin system, supports more games than just WoW, and such - I can't say it's a small project) |
| 22:34.49 | nevcairiel | the real question is, does it need all this shit? |
| 22:35.00 | Gnarfoz | they wanted it to, so it does |
| 22:35.07 | TC-Work | Needs is always subjective. |
| 22:35.14 | nevcairiel | designing a complex and bloated system is always easy |
| 22:35.19 | Kylezilla | layout is always the worst |
| 22:35.34 | foxlit | absolute statements always lead to the dark side. |
| 22:35.37 | Gnarfoz | well, I think their svn repo is out there, if you want to enjoy a freak show |
| 22:35.42 | Fisker | hey foxlit |
| 22:35.46 | Fisker | you're absolutely dark |
| 22:35.52 | Shirik|Ghost | designing a complex and bloated system is ALWAYS easy |
| 22:36.04 | Shirik|Ghost | foxlit notwithstanding |
| 22:36.05 | nevcairiel | oh i know eqdkp+ code, i used to maintain a small fork that fixed a whole bunch of issues, back in wotlk times |
| 22:36.10 | nevcairiel | i doubt it changed much since then |
| 22:36.23 | nevcairiel | (code quality wise) |
| 22:36.24 | Shirik|Ghost | I made a modification to eqdkp+ once |
| 22:36.26 | Shirik|Ghost | it was miserable |
| 22:36.34 | nevcairiel | it or you? |
| 22:36.37 | Gnarfoz | they said 1.0 (or earlier: 0.7) was a rewrite, but they took over 4 years to do it, so I doubt they have improved much |
| 22:36.43 | Shirik|Ghost | it |
| 22:37.14 | Sajaki | well this is it if you're curious. http://www.bbdkp.com/demo/ |
| 22:37.30 | Sajaki | but still wip, and it was from scratch |
| 22:37.37 | Gnarfoz | I bet it's the typical "ok, we're done with the rewrite, let's rewrite it" situation |
| 22:37.52 | Tuller | that's my favorite type! |
| 22:38.09 | nevcairiel | anyway, the real question is if people actually need all this complex shit that eqdkp has, or if people would be happy with a simple dkp tracker, they just dont have any |
| 22:38.13 | foxlit | so I made something that'd swap the safari hat with your helm when you finish a pet battle |
| 22:38.22 | nevcairiel | of course, all people can run on their websites is php, and i wouldnt touch that |
| 22:38.32 | foxlit | Except I can't tell if I'm doing it too late or not. |
| 22:38.34 | Gnarfoz | eqdkp is a simple (but old, and probably kind of broken) enough thing, it's eqdkp+ that's so horrible |
| 22:39.01 | nevcairiel | we used simple eqdkp back in classic i think |
| 22:39.09 | nevcairiel | dont think + even existed then |
| 22:39.24 | nebula169 | we used zero sum dkp in tbc/wrath |
| 22:40.07 | nebula169 | tracked with an program someone made in matlab |
| 22:40.10 | nebula169 | lol |
| 22:40.10 | foxlit | "zero sum" is such a boring term |
| 22:40.35 | foxlit | all it really should mean is insert-new-members-at-average |
| 22:41.38 | Gnarfoz | which is not what zero sum dkp did |
| 22:41.42 | Shirik|Ghost | we used a windowed dkp system |
| 22:41.44 | Shirik|Ghost | which I like a lot more |
| 22:41.51 | foxlit | [all the excitement really lies in what you do to determine item prices] |
| 22:42.09 | Shirik|Ghost | it eliminated the problem of people hoarding dkp while still enforcing that newer players have to "catch up" |
| 22:42.25 | Shirik|Ghost | it allowed newer players to get in more quickly, but not instantly |
| 22:43.19 | foxlit | Gnarfoz: you could elaborate, you know. |
| 22:43.40 | Gnarfoz | foxlit: on what? you yourself are just throwing out random thoughts, too |
| 22:43.57 | foxlit | "Gnarfoz: which is not what zero sum dkp did" << then what did it do? |
| 22:44.13 | Gnarfoz | how would I know what you know about something, much less act on my assumptions; you're the kind of person to flame if my assumptions are wrong |
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| 22:44.41 | Amarande | Pretty sure if I was going to use a loot points system, I would probably go with a paradigm where points are earned but not spent |
| 22:44.51 | nevcairiel | zero sum didnt really work for us all that well since people had a tendency to not show up on progress days (yeah we had a bunch of those people) |
| 22:45.00 | Gnarfoz | foxlit: at least for us, it just meant that all dkp spent on a particular raid night were equal to the dkp earned that night |
| 22:45.14 | Amarande | i.e., having been a long-time dependable raider gets you priority on the loot, but there's no having to book-keep or worry about whether people can actually afford loot that clearly should go to them |
| 22:45.41 | nevcairiel | thats how the usual concept works, any dkp spend get spread over all attendees |
| 22:45.50 | nevcairiel | so the total amount in the pool never changes |
| 22:46.26 | Semlar | do you just have priority over all the loot that drops |
| 22:46.42 | foxlit | and if the night consisted of wiping and no loot? |
| 22:46.45 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: we kind of band-aided that by making items be more expensive (and thus reward more dkp, too) on the first drop (or kill? I'm not so sure I remember it correctly... Venara|zZz is asleep :D) |
| 22:46.59 | nevcairiel | foxlit: no points, which was the problem for us and people not showing up to such nights |
| 22:47.03 | Amarande | Semlar: let's say Jim has shown up every raid night for 3 months and Mike is a rookie |
| 22:47.18 | Amarande | Under the idea I'd probably use, Jim is going to have a much larger attendance score than Mike |
| 22:47.31 | Gnarfoz | progress nights without kills (not farm nights with wipes because of fails) earned a small amount of dkp for all attendees |
| 22:47.32 | foxlit | So, coincidentally, this points gained = points spent maintains the average DKP per member at 0. |
| 22:47.36 | Amarande | so, an upgrade that could go to either goes to Jim. If Jim's already got it, it goes to the next person down the list, which might be Mike. |
| 22:47.49 | foxlit | [And you'd probably also insert recruits at 0 points] |
| 22:48.00 | nevcairiel | well usually you start such a system with a base level of points for everyone |
| 22:48.08 | nevcairiel | otherwise there is nothing to spend |
| 22:48.11 | Amarande | Basically it's a further simplification of the idea, amounting to points are only added to, never subtracted from |
| 22:48.14 | nevcairiel | unless you can go negative |
| 22:48.35 | Semlar | so jim always has priority over mike |
| 22:48.49 | Amarande | Semlar: yeah, but eventually Jim *has* all the stuff that drops from that boss you've got on farm |
| 22:48.55 | foxlit | nevcairiel: since the purpose is to establish a relative priority, it would seem that there's nothing wrong with negative points |
| 22:48.59 | nevcairiel | recruits would usually start at 0, but earn enough points during their trial phase to be fairly treated, and they dont usually get stuff in trial either |
| 22:49.11 | Stanzilla | dkp discussions are so useless :/ |
| 22:49.14 | Gnarfoz | I think we had negative dkp for people who were absent even though they had signed up |
| 22:49.14 | foxlit | [of course, as your roster churns, you'd drift somewhere away from that avergae] |
| 22:49.17 | nevcairiel | i guess it depends how you handle item prices |
| 22:49.20 | nevcairiel | fixed vs. bits |
| 22:49.29 | nevcairiel | bids* |
| 22:49.44 | nevcairiel | with bidding it helps to have a positive amount to be able to bid |
| 22:49.44 | foxlit | "I bid infinity + 2 points, so ha!" |
| 22:49.46 | Gnarfoz | and we had non-public bids |
| 22:49.51 | nevcairiel | fixed prices, it doesnt matter |
| 22:50.04 | Amarande | In other words, if Jim and Mike are ret pallies, say, and a Super Huge Greatsword of Awesome drops that's an upgrade for both of them, Jim gets it |
| 22:50.15 | Gnarfoz | I can't remember half of this crap, dkp was so horrible |
| 22:50.23 | Amarande | couple farm runs later? Another Super Huge Greatsword of Awesome drops. Jim already HAS one, so Mike gets this one. |
| 22:50.42 | nevcairiel | i think we "tweaked" our zero sum eventually to try to reward such wipe nights, which of course broke the zero sum rule |
| 22:50.47 | Amarande | In that case, Mike just has to live with the fact that he's always going to get the second of each foo that drops that he and Jim both need. |
| 22:50.53 | nevcairiel | but i forget, its been a long time |
| 22:51.01 | Gnarfoz | but we had fleshed it out pretty well for our raid group, and it worked, mostly |
| 22:51.04 | Amarande | Which is probably fair, if we're comparing a green recruit with a dependable longtimer. |
| 22:51.14 | foxlit | nevcairiel: natural progression, really. |
| 22:51.41 | Amarande | It's like getting a new job and expecting to get paid as much as people who've been there for years. Doesn't usually happen. :) |
| 22:51.42 | foxlit | but even if you decouple points earned from points spent, you'd still preserve the essence of the thing by inserting recruits at average points. |
| 22:51.50 | Gnarfoz | I think the biggest unsolved problem was people who were sitting at the cap (not having a cap would have been another can of worms) |
| 22:52.12 | nevcairiel | point hoarders are always a problem in dkp |
| 22:52.14 | foxlit | and my pet solution to that is exponentially increasing fixed prices with discounts for upgrades. |
| 22:52.31 | nevcairiel | they dont buy upgrades because they really want this one special item |
| 22:52.40 | Gnarfoz | we inserted people at I think 500 dkp, and since we didn't have fixed prices, we didn't have to touch them |
| 22:52.49 | foxlit | i.e. you always pay the difference between the cost of the item and what you've paid for the last item in that slot. |
| 22:53.18 | nevcairiel | every item is an upgrade |
| 22:53.32 | Amarande | I think basically if I was going to implement the idea, it'd probably be something like X points just for showing up for a boss, then +Y more if the boss is downed, maybe +Z if it's a first progression kill |
| 22:53.33 | Gnarfoz | obviously that's untrue |
| 22:53.47 | Amarande | Highest total gets priority over loot that could go to more than one person. |
| 22:54.03 | Gnarfoz | gotta stop talking about dkp, for fear that I might actually consider it when we go "back" to 20 man raiding in 6.0 (thanks Blizzard) |
| 22:54.21 | nevcairiel | just saying that there is always a previous item in the slot |
| 22:54.34 | nevcairiel | unless you reset such things every new tier or something |
| 22:54.39 | Amarande | I'm not sure if I'm going to get WoD yet |
| 22:54.48 | Amarande | If I do, I probably won't get it at launch, unlike Wrath, Cata, and MoP |
| 22:54.50 | Gnarfoz | sure, but more than often enough items drop which nobody who's in the raid can use |
| 22:55.06 | Amarande | In particular, I'll want to wait for the month or so of addon breakage to pass before trying to assemble my UI again :P |
| 22:55.21 | Amarande | hm. speaking of that. which of you is from Curse again? |
| 22:55.39 | nevcairiel | i liked having discussions like "this item is bad for mages", but its better then the one you have, "yes, but not worse spending points on" |
| 22:55.50 | nevcairiel | worth* |
| 22:55.54 | Semlar | torhal hails from curse |
| 22:56.09 | Gnarfoz | hails Torhal |
| 22:56.13 | Semlar | ALL HAIL TORHAL |
| 22:56.13 | Gnarfoz | (what?) |
| 22:56.25 | Gnarfoz | all hail Torhal's hair |
| 22:56.37 | Semlar | i think that's understood |
| 22:56.50 | Ressy | lol |
| 22:56.55 | Torhal | What the actual fuck? |
| 22:56.58 | Amarande | Torhal, Curse Client idea (if I haven't missed it somewhere). Would make the expansion chaos a lot easier to deal with. |
| 22:57.05 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: that's kind of why I dread doing loot council - I'd have to actually know this shit for all classes |
| 22:57.21 | Amarande | There should be an option to hide addons that aren't updated for the current version of WoW, beyond simply puzzling out update dates. |
| 22:57.21 | Torhal | is attempting (badly, apparently) to watch the Doctor Who 50th with his son. |
| 22:57.27 | Fisker | btw foxlit |
| 22:57.33 | Fisker | we need to stage a coup |
| 22:57.35 | Fisker | you in? |
| 22:57.39 | Torhal | Amarande: support.curse.com |
| 22:57.40 | nevcairiel | Gnarfoz: i think it might get a bit simpler in WoD |
| 22:57.50 | Torhal | There's a section dedicated to the Client. |
| 22:57.52 | foxlit | down with that impostor king of Norway, Fisker! |
| 22:57.59 | Fisker | idk |
| 22:58.02 | Gnarfoz | oh, that's why we're talking about Torhal all of a sudden |
| 22:58.05 | Fisker | I just wanted doctor who on tv |
| 22:58.07 | *** join/#wowuidev ShirikPro (~Shirik@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 22:58.07 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ShirikPro] by ChanServ |
| 22:58.07 | Fisker | but noooooooooooooooo |
| 22:58.18 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: it just might, yeah |
| 22:58.26 | foxlit | is it on the intertubes yet? |
| 22:58.30 | Torhal | resumes viewership. |
| 22:58.34 | nevcairiel | foxlit: it is |
| 22:58.42 | Fisker | ^^ |
| 22:58.45 | nevcairiel | even in 3d, if thats your thing |
| 22:59.01 | Fisker | You know who else didn't show the day of the doctor? |
| 22:59.03 | Fisker | nazi germany |
| 22:59.29 | nevcairiel | translation probably not done yet |
| 22:59.31 | Gnarfoz | of course not, nazi germany ceased to exist before doctor who was ever created (in our timeline) |
| 22:59.40 | Gnarfoz | also, they did show it in cinemas, at least |
| 22:59.45 | nevcairiel | indeed |
| 22:59.50 | Fisker | yeah 3 in the entire country |
| 22:59.51 | Fisker | ;( |
| 22:59.53 | Gnarfoz | what |
| 23:00.00 | nevcairiel | he refers to denmark again |
| 23:00.31 | Gnarfoz | certainly more than 3 if 2 of the ones close to me showed it, that'd be kind of a weird geographical concentration if those were 2 out of 3 |
| 23:00.34 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 23:01.13 | Fisker | noone was ever talking about germany so kinda weird for you to assume that |
| 23:01.26 | nevcairiel | i saw it in the cinema, was quite fun, even if i didnt find anyone to go with me, but oh well |
| 23:01.35 | Fisker | I would've gone with you |
| 23:01.37 | Gnarfoz | hehe, watching the Heroes of the Storm panel beginning again, so funny to watch Dustin Browder struggle not to say "MOBA" or "DotA" :D |
| 23:02.10 | Amarande | heh |
| 23:02.14 | Amarande | what is with the MOBA craze these days anyway |
| 23:02.16 | Fisker | lawyers had one job? |
| 23:02.17 | nevcairiel | the only of my friends that like doctor who completely fail at english |
| 23:02.26 | Amarande | I've even seen some people suggest that MOBAs are killing off MMORPGs |
| 23:02.50 | Gnarfoz | MOBA is not a trademark, and just because Valve trademarked DotA doesn't mean Blizzard people can't /say/ it |
| 23:02.52 | Fisker | I don't fail at english nevcairiel |
| 23:02.55 | Gnarfoz | they just didn't want to |
| 23:03.09 | Kesava | Stanzilla: in case you weren't aware I pushed the version with an option for the leftie layout |
| 23:03.21 | Gnarfoz | don't be so pushy, Kesava |
| 23:03.26 | Kesava | :< |
| 23:06.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Semlar-Laptop (~Semlar@142.196.185.93) |
| 23:06.01 | Amarande | Heh, I wonder how many people see MOBA and are like "isn't that one of those super huge ginormous nukes?" |
| 23:07.42 | Stanzilla | Kesava: yes I noticed, haven't tested yet |
| 23:07.47 | kd3 | close, that's the MOAB |
| 23:07.59 | Stanzilla | Kesava: does it look like the custom thingy I have now or different? |
| 23:08.40 | Kesava | it's pretty much the same with some tiny fixes |
| 23:08.54 | Kesava | like names are actually truncated properly |
| 23:09.06 | Amarande | Mind you, MOBAs might eventually kill off WoW :| |
| 23:09.12 | Amarande | but ... that's like, far in the future eventual |
| 23:09.31 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 23:09.37 | Amarande | and yeah, is probably something practically every MMO has to live with the spectre of, come to think of it :S |
| 23:10.15 | Amarande | F2P MMOs are probably in a better situation to survive at that point of their evolution than WoW is, though |
| 23:10.37 | zenzelezz | I don't think MOBAs can kill MMOs |
| 23:10.42 | Amarande | (come to think of it, wonder if that's why they're coming up with the store, so they can move to F2P eventually as a strategy due to exactly this phenomenon) |
| 23:10.43 | zenzelezz | I have zero interest in MOBAs |
| 23:10.48 | Amarande | zenzelezz: the main thing I was thinking of is this |
| 23:10.52 | Stanzilla | 00:09:06 ∙ Amarande: Mind you, MOBAs might eventually kill off WoW :| < dafuq is it bullshit o clock again? |
| 23:10.55 | Amarande | every MMO, eventually, will stop releasing new content |
| 23:11.04 | Stanzilla | Kesava: ok nice! just have to backup my custom stuff, have been adding a few mobs to it |
| 23:11.12 | Amarande | at that point, the PvE content eventually gets "used up" by more and more of the player populace |
| 23:11.21 | zenzelezz | I don't think you're remotely correct |
| 23:11.23 | nevcairiel | i like playing a moba occasionally, but its a completely different type of game then WoW, there isnt even a competition |
| 23:11.24 | Amarande | however, PvP would be expected to live for several more years, because PvP players create their own challenges |
| 23:11.45 | Kesava | when would it be defined as MOBA having killed of MMOs though, when every single person who ever played an MMO is now playing MOBAs constantly? |
| 23:11.53 | Kesava | it's more like, any other game ever, will eventually kill mmos |
| 23:11.56 | Kesava | which is probably wrong |
| 23:12.08 | Amarande | however, it's that bit, the mass group PvP player, that's going to be siphoned off by the MOBAs (especially since MOBAs are usually F2P and thus they can save 15 bucks by going to the MOBA) |
| 23:12.49 | zenzelezz | I don't think that's true either |
| 23:12.56 | zenzelezz | you're comparing very different things |
| 23:12.59 | Amarande | basically, the conjecture would be, PvE content is largely static because AI enemies don't change over time, PvP content is dynamic because every opponent group is a fresh experience |
| 23:13.31 | Amarande | so eventually, PvE interest is pretty much bound to die out at some point after expansions stop coming out, i.e., the fate of an MMO must eventually rest in its PvP players right? |
| 23:14.06 | zenzelezz | not right |
| 23:14.32 | zenzelezz | look at Everquest 1. They're still pushing out expansions every year, and people keep buying |
| 23:15.17 | Amarande | wow, been a long time since I looked at EQ1 |
| 23:15.49 | Amarande | I tried it for a short time many years ago (looking for a break from Diablo 2), but broadband wasn't readily accessible in this town at the time and it was too painfully laggy on dialup |
| 23:16.20 | Amarande | I think if we did have broadband here, it was that wonky hybrid cable where you had to have a dialup connection alongside it for the upload |
| 23:17.00 | Amarande | which I didn't feel like messing with so I didn't get cable till 04 or so when proper two-way modems were the norm |
| 23:21.39 | TC-Work | Somehow I suspect EQ1 is at 1000% recyled code/artwork/mesh/etc. at this point |
| 23:21.55 | Amarande | TC-Work: hah |
| 23:22.17 | Amarande | Well, it's not like there's all that much in games that is truly original nowadays, anyway |
| 23:22.31 | Amarande | It's like LEGO, you can build all kinds of unique things out of LEGO, but at the end of the day it's still the same bricks over and over |
| 23:22.53 | Amarande | it's only every now and then that someone comes up with an actual new brick |
| 23:23.21 | Amarande | but, hey, it doesn't *have* to be truly original (... just look at LEGO) |
| 23:23.51 | kd3 | holy crap, my old school knocked off florida in gainsville |
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| 23:59.18 | airtonix | Amarande: doesn't have to be original, don't you mean look at Apple ? |
