| 00:03.57 | Semlar | Sintacks: i don't even see a realm listed for my real id friends |
| 00:04.10 | TC-Work | Because you don't have any friends. |
| 00:04.32 | Semlar | so true but the people on my friends list have Realm: and it's just blank |
| 00:05.01 | Semlar | tis a mystery |
| 00:05.17 | TC-Work | Are they online? |
| 00:05.21 | Semlar | yep |
| 00:05.36 | TC-Work | Maybe they broke their own stuff as well. |
| 00:07.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Dotted (Dotted@x1-6-24-76-7d-9e-01-da.k920.webspeed.dk) |
| 00:10.57 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:11.59 | TC-Work | Damnit, now it is making me hungry |
| 00:12.03 | Semlar | >_> |
| 00:15.21 | *** join/#wowuidev cogwheel (~Cogwheel@38.99.42.242) |
| 00:15.21 | *** join/#wowuidev cogwheel (~Cogwheel@WoWUIDev/WoWProgramming/morlando/cogwheel) |
| 00:18.40 | pompy | http://blog.malwarebytes.org/online-security/2013/10/php-hack-redirects-to-magnitude-exploit-kit/ |
| 00:20.12 | Neffi | yup http://i.imgur.com/H6pIxxL.jpg |
| 00:25.35 | Neffi | I don't think any man here will dispute the accuracy of that image |
| 00:27.21 | TC-Work | I would, even with the hobo beard I look like the last panel |
| 00:38.44 | karl_w_w | http://m.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/high-court-rules-out-compensation-to-public-servant-injured-while-having-sex-in-a-motel/story-e6frg6nf-1226749573364 lol |
| 00:40.53 | Shirik | Today, filed under "things that cause Shirik to tableflip", http://www.edn.com/design/automotive/4423428/Toyota-s-killer-firmware--Bad-design-and-its-consequences |
| 00:41.59 | Semlar | it's how she would have wanted to go.. |
| 00:44.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (~Daniel@c-67-160-127-180.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 00:47.01 | Neffi | "Bad design and its consequences" <- Ironically, the page is broken on Chrome |
| 00:48.53 | TC-Work | Works for me in chrome |
| 00:49.52 | Neffi | After a reload it functions fine. |
| 00:50.09 | Neffi | Weird though. Wasn't able to scroll at all at first. Could only see top paragraph. |
| 00:51.26 | alestane | "Toyota nailed six of them." |
| 00:51.43 | Arrowmaster | i just got the ship in AC4 and i cant stop pirating |
| 00:51.54 | Amarande | "Other cases of throttle malfunction have been linked to tin whiskers in the accelerator pedal sensor." |
| 00:52.18 | Amarande | You know, when you think about that ... it's practically an indication that in order to reduce the risk of children growing up dumb, we're willing to raise the risk of them growing up dead :| |
| 00:52.19 | Neffi | damn cats |
| 00:52.35 | Neffi | But that's really bad, and tragic |
| 00:52.49 | Amarande | since apparently tin whiskers have become more prevalent in recent years mainly because taking lead out of solder greatly increases the risk of tin whiskers :| |
| 00:53.07 | Shirik | ahahaha http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/archive/2013/10/29/10461148.aspx |
| 00:55.24 | Semlar | .. |
| 00:55.28 | kd3 | someone's trying to enumerate all guids again? |
| 00:55.30 | Amarande | blah this black and blue mark on my finger is going to take months to go away |
| 00:56.25 | kd3 | has seen this story before |
| 00:56.28 | Amarande | hah |
| 00:58.12 | Semlar | i tried to brute force every possible vignette id when they weren't returning information and just got disconnected from the server |
| 00:58.18 | alestane | "The Camry ETCS code was found to have 11,000 global variables." |
| 00:59.02 | Neffi | heh http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1705008/simple-proof-that-guid-is-not-unique/5466362#5466362 |
| 01:04.57 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower|Work (~MentalPow@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 01:04.57 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower|Work] by ChanServ |
| 01:07.19 | Neffi | Now there's something I find interesting |
| 01:07.35 | Neffi | Actually nevermind I don't even find it all that interesting |
| 01:17.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Xuerian (~core-q@xuerian.net) |
| 01:29.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Kodiack (~Colton@97-86-234-157.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) |
| 01:31.37 | *** join/#wowuidev tardmrr (~tardmrr@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
| 01:31.38 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tardmrr] by ChanServ |
| 01:33.01 | kd3 | 38m adobe accounts |
| 01:33.07 | kd3 | wow |
| 01:34.28 | Neffi | *finishes watching a show* *existential crisis* |
| 01:37.18 | *** join/#wowuidev kurapica (~kurapica@58.247.109.243) |
| 01:45.34 | Shirik | kd3? |
| 01:45.47 | kd3 | the breach from last week |
| 01:45.58 | kd3 | it's a bit bigger than adobe previously said |
| 01:46.49 | Shirik | are they saying the numbers or is someone else? |
| 01:47.43 | kd3 | http://krebsonsecurity.com/2013/10/adobe-breach-impacted-at-least-38-million-users/ |
| 01:48.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Semlar (~chatzilla@142.196.185.93) |
| 01:53.06 | *** join/#wowuidev cogwheel (~Cogwheel@2600:1010:b02c:8b75:24e9:9241:e882:3f4c) |
| 01:53.07 | *** join/#wowuidev cogwheel (~Cogwheel@WoWUIDev/WoWProgramming/morlando/cogwheel) |
| 01:58.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeger73 (~quassel@ip70-176-63-123.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 02:05.27 | Semlar | alright new rule, you can't name your library "six" |
| 02:05.51 | Amarande | Semlar: what's the matter, you're a Cards fan and six is how many you're going to be losing the Series in? :) |
| 02:05.59 | Semlar | stop that |
| 02:06.12 | Semlar | https://pypi.python.org/pypi/six seriously |
| 02:06.36 | Neffi | but can you name it Seven? http://most.themost10.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/George-Costanza-5.jpg |
| 02:06.51 | Semlar | IT'S UNACCEPTABLE NAMING CONVENTION |
| 02:07.15 | Neffi | Seems fitting |
| 02:07.17 | Neffi | 2*3=6 |
| 02:07.33 | Semlar | STOP DEFENDING THEM |
| 02:07.46 | kd3 | I'm reminded of winamp going 2->3->5 |
| 02:07.51 | Amarande | Semlar: hey, back in the day some of us did assembly language. by hand. WITHOUT ANY LITTLE LUXURIES LIKE MEANINGFUL LABELS AT ALL, let alone "six" |
| 02:07.59 | Neffi | renames all of his projects as numbers. |
| 02:08.02 | Semlar | NO |
| 02:08.07 | Semlar | BAD NEFFI |
| 02:08.20 | Neffi | too late |
| 02:08.47 | Amarande | Semlar, you need to go stand in that light over there before your stacks of Sanity are exhausted :) |
| 02:10.39 | Amarande | Yay, queues |
| 02:10.57 | Amarande | you know the other day was the first time I'd EVER seen the queue dialog box for logging onto a server? |
| 02:11.52 | Neffi | Filibuster has been updated to version 2. Changes: "Renamed to Seven. Thanks Semlar!" |
| 02:12.13 | Semlar | at least seven isn't 3 characters long |
| 02:12.23 | Semlar | you should name it ten or something |
| 02:12.32 | Neffi | OQSpam is being renamed to Six |
| 02:12.38 | Semlar | that way it's almost impossible to search for |
| 02:14.04 | Neffi | Here you go, Semlar http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/author-288198.html |
| 02:14.12 | Semlar | !sh |
| 02:14.40 | Neffi | Got any open source addons? |
| 02:14.48 | Neffi | I'd love to fork and renamed "Five" |
| 02:15.03 | Semlar | stop that |
| 02:16.48 | Semlar | i don't even remember what i needed this library for now |
| 02:30.21 | airtonix | Semlar: umadbro? |
| 02:31.18 | Neffi | Amarande: Got your new CPU? |
| 02:31.29 | airtonix | you need six so that you can create python modules that work on both 2.6-7 and 3 |
| 02:31.37 | airtonix | i thought that was obvious? |
| 02:32.39 | airtonix | hey Neffi, i like the idea of "Eleventy" |
| 02:32.52 | Neffi | Oh awesome |
| 02:33.07 | Neffi | I can nag Semlar and regerence Tolkien at the same time |
| 02:33.08 | airtonix | it'll be a sound library |
| 02:33.17 | airtonix | for hipsters |
| 02:33.36 | Neffi | I'll get to work |
| 02:33.37 | airtonix | Eleventy: because i had mine up before it was cool |
| 02:34.53 | *** join/#wowuidev ZorbaTHut (tocohl@maximilian.pavlovian.net) |
| 02:36.00 | Torhal | [18:22:24] Semlar-Laptop: i mean GetRealmName isn't a new function or anything is it <-- It was added to AceDB-3.0 over two years ago. |
| 02:37.17 | airtonix | hey Torhal |
| 02:37.50 | Torhal | Yo, airtonix. |
| 02:40.29 | Amarande | Neffi: Yup, it's installed, cooled and OC'd to 4.1GHz |
| 02:40.33 | Amarande | and the memory is now running at 1866 |
| 02:41.03 | Neffi | Not bad |
| 02:41.08 | Neffi | Did you try pushing the cores further? |
| 02:41.08 | Amarande | wow bugsack is working overtime today, stupid IsDisabledByParentalControls() BS |
| 02:41.22 | Amarande | Nope. I'm not sure if I should, since it says you shouldn't go over 1.4V |
| 02:41.44 | Amarande | and while I'm only at 1.35V, I have noticed in CPU-Z that it isn't a constant voltage and the momentary maximum is already 1.404 |
| 02:41.49 | Neffi | Yeah, never want to get to overzealous with voltage adjustment |
| 02:42.27 | Neffi | 4.1 GHz is very respectable. A couple hundred extra MHz isn't gonna make any real difference. |
| 02:42.41 | Amarande | you know what's a wallbanger about that IsDisabledByParentalControls thing we're dealing with now? |
| 02:42.44 | *** join/#wowuidev NickG365 (Nick@2605:a000:1218:4048::1:50) |
| 02:43.01 | Neffi | Its functionality isn't even being used by the client yet? |
| 02:43.02 | Amarande | apparently it's been known for at least a couple weeks, but Blizz didn't do anything at all about it |
| 02:43.03 | kullervo | Good thing you GMT -~8 users have the whole day to fix the addons after each patch <3 |
| 02:43.27 | Amarande | ... this despite the fact that it interferes with practically the whole API |
| 02:43.41 | kullervo | Amarande: which CPU have you got? |
| 02:43.44 | Amarande | do they seriously expect us to be ready to treat each x.x.1 minor patch like it's a freaking new expansion? |
| 02:43.48 | Amarande | FX-6300 |
| 02:43.55 | kullervo | the hell is that o.O |
| 02:43.57 | kd3 | it's a bug. it'll get fixed. stop hyperventilating |
| 02:44.02 | Neffi | AMD Bulldozer |
| 02:44.19 | Torhal | You're asking an awful lot, kd3. |
| 02:44.21 | Torhal | :D |
| 02:44.21 | kullervo | ah, right. Wasn't familiar with the naming scheme. |
| 02:45.07 | Neffi | The Silverstone FT03-mini is so beautiful. I wish they'd update it to add at least .5 inches more GPU clearance. |
| 02:45.09 | kullervo | Amarande: I'm readin ghe specs right now and the boosted 4.1GHz state is 1.425V |
| 02:45.20 | Amarande | I'm not even sure why they have damn parental controls in the game to begin with :P |
| 02:45.29 | Amarande | Technically, the EULA/TOU say you have to be 18 to play, right? |
| 02:45.39 | Neffi | No it doesn't |
| 02:45.40 | kd3 | no |
| 02:45.47 | Amarande | Therefore, it's the parents' own damn fault if the store comes out and kids run up a $30000000 credit card bill buying pets for all their friends :P |
| 02:45.48 | Torhal | Amarande: You can have an account for your child, and you probably don't want them buying random shit. |
| 02:45.53 | Neffi | It even stipulates that minors CAN play the game (under their parent's account) |
| 02:46.00 | kullervo | so I wouldn't be worried about that. You can probably OC it a couple hundred MHz higher if you care about that. |
| 02:46.09 | Amarande | hm. I definitely remembered seeing 18 being part of the TOU |
| 02:46.27 | Neffi | Honestly they should just implement the in-game store via the built-in browser |
| 02:46.37 | Neffi | I don't see why Lua should be able to see it at all |
| 02:46.45 | Amarande | heh which probably makes me more familiar with it than 99% of WoW players (because I looked at anything in the EULA/TOU at all, LOL) |
| 02:46.59 | Amarande | Neffi: because they want a stupid little friendliness tooltip to show for people who are parental-controlled out of using the store, apparently |
| 02:47.09 | Amarande | this is apparently worth breaking the UI hither and yon until the next patch, heh |
| 02:47.10 | kullervo | Neffi: I think exposing the in-game store to lue is just a security risk and should be regarded as a bad idea |
| 02:47.19 | Neffi | I agree |
| 02:47.30 | Amarande | and who knows when that will even be, seeing that addons "are not supported" it could even persist till 5.5.0 |
| 02:47.30 | kullervo | also holy hell do I make lots of typos tonight |
| 02:47.40 | Neffi | Amarande: If they rendered it all in the browser, there would be no issue. The HTML can handle the "gtfo ur not allowed to buy" warning. |
| 02:47.42 | Amarande | worst case, 6.0.1, if there are no more content patches after this for MoP :( |
| 02:47.58 | Neffi | I doubt it'll last that long |
| 02:47.59 | kd3 | for god's sake, stop, amarande. just stop. |
| 02:48.12 | kd3 | wanders off for more alcohol |
| 02:48.24 | kullervo | hmmh everyone drinking around me |
| 02:48.25 | Amarande | kd3: I can't even open and close my quest log atm without getting warnings both times because questguru isn't updated yet. :| |
| 02:48.36 | Neffi | Then uninstall QuestGuru |
| 02:48.45 | Torhal | That doesn't mean you need to bitch about the same thing over and over for hours. It's rather grating. |
| 02:48.54 | Amarande | And people who use MoveAnything (thank gods I don't, because I use addons for almost anything I might have wanted to move anyway), apparently get errors on a more or less constant basis :P |
| 02:49.01 | kullervo | has MoveAnything seen an update yet? |
| 02:49.12 | Cairenn | yes |
| 02:49.26 | Amarande | Neffi: are there any other addons like it that *have* been updated? |
| 02:49.35 | kullervo | cool. Was getting a bit annoying to reload my UI every time I zoned, even if it only took a couple of seconds :D |
| 02:49.52 | Amarande | (or any other still maintained addons like questguru for that matter, there used to be a ton of them and now they seem to be fairly hard to find :S) |
| 02:50.09 | Cairenn | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info21303-MoveAnythingMoP.html |
| 02:50.35 | Semlar | i just use the default quest tracker |
| 02:50.47 | Amarande | Semlar: I'd possibly have to use MoveAnything if I used that :S |
| 02:50.52 | Amarande | which apparently itself had issues :) |
| 02:51.16 | Amarande | not to mention the whole idea of an in-game store for wow atm seems just plain ... silly |
| 02:51.17 | Aeger73 | MoveableFrames from ElvUI can be used without ElvUI is is much better than Moveable frames |
| 02:51.24 | kullervo | Cairenn: 13.7.9 right? Seems to be on Curse too since my client has recently auto updated and the version matches |
| 02:51.28 | Aeger73 | it saves the position and no erros today with 5.4.1 |
| 02:51.31 | Amarande | mainly because of the nature of the stuff you can get in the WoW store |
| 02:52.07 | Amarande | it makes more sense for LOTRO and TOR because much of the stuff in their stores is stuff you might much more want to grab-and-go, but for a pet or mount or xmog item? meh |
| 02:52.24 | Torhal | headdesks. |
| 02:52.37 | Neffi | Easy there Torhal. You're gonna hurt yourself. |
| 02:52.42 | Amarande | Torhal: perhaps we should have protested more about the store :) |
| 02:52.44 | Neffi | pours Torhal another drink. |
| 02:52.49 | Torhal | Neffi: It was to make the pain stop, actually |
| 02:52.57 | Neffi | haha |
| 02:52.58 | Amarande | although it seems like one of those features like CRZ that we were going to get regardless of player input :P |
| 02:53.01 | Torhal | I haven't been drinking. |
| 02:53.04 | Torhal | Heh |
| 02:53.26 | kd3 | whee, vodak. |
| 02:53.28 | Neffi | Amarande: I'm not against the in-game store though. |
| 02:53.40 | Neffi | Bugs happen. |
| 02:53.46 | kd3 | good thing I don't have to get to work until noonish tomorrow |
| 02:54.23 | kullervo | Neffi: headdesking is actually very relaxing, you should try it sometime |
| 02:55.53 | Cairenn | I use headwalling to deal with my really bad migraines. |
| 02:56.00 | Amarande | Neffi: well ... tbh, partly I tend to even regard it as "hypermonetisation", a phenomenon I tend to find irritating in general |
| 02:56.14 | Torhal | Cairenn: You haven't trained your cats for acupuncture? |
| 02:56.16 | Amarande | unfortunately, it seems like it's getting ingrained into almost everything in gaming. apparently a bloke can't just have, you know, FUN anymore |
| 02:56.22 | Cairenn | heh |
| 02:56.35 | Neffi | Protip: Hold the front and back of your head, and squeeze. Gets rid of a migraine momentarily. |
| 02:56.37 | kullervo | headwalling might be a bit noisy for late-night use if you live in an apartment |
| 02:57.04 | Cairenn | Neffi: no, I'm talking about the ones where I should probably be going to the hospital. |
| 02:57.06 | Amarande | "Hi there I'm Billy and I'm here to carry a quest marker over my head that won't go away unless you buy this DLC." "Would you like to buy 5 extra moves to keep going in Candy Crush?" "Now loading. By the way, you can buy this from the LOTRO Store!" "More (insert item) is available from the Cartel Market!" |
| 02:57.12 | Amarande | And ... soon to be part of WoW too, apparently. :| |
| 02:57.38 | Neffi | Amarande: If their business model disturbs you, stop giving them money. There's lots of good games out there. If business itself disturbs you, you're living in the wrong society. Go live in a jungle. |
| 02:57.50 | Amarande | Neffi: well, apparently, just being able to have fun without constantly having some extra little gewgaw hawked at you seems to be passe |
| 02:58.02 | Amarande | fewer and fewer games seem to allow you this luxury |
| 02:58.28 | Amarande | (on a more serious point, it means that a lot more games require a constant internet connection than should, because even single player games want to hawk the DLC or little boosters at you :|) |
| 02:58.33 | Neffi | I think you're blowing it out of proportion |
| 02:58.45 | kd3 | I hear paper books are still dlc-free |
| 02:58.49 | Torhal | Apparently, hanging out in a WoW IRC channel without someone monologuing or bitching about a subject for hours on end is a thing of the past as well. Le sigh. |
| 02:59.02 | xyphoid | some things never change |
| 02:59.04 | Neffi | WoW's micro-transactions have remained primarily cosmetic or otherwise not really infringing on the competitiveness of the game. As for other games, well it shows their integrity. Stop playing Candy Crush or whatever. |
| 02:59.05 | Torhal | thinks kd3 should get a Vodak shirt. |
| 02:59.47 | kullervo | Torhal: come on don't be like that, still some very good channels where the idling is only broken by joins and ping timeouts |
| 02:59.59 | Torhal | kullervo: You got me. :/ |
| 03:00.02 | Neffi | Don't forget netsplits |
| 03:00.05 | Torhal | !!! |
| 03:00.20 | Amarande | ahh, tonight's philosophical change of topic |
| 03:00.24 | Amarande | which is worse, dead or noisy :) |
| 03:00.32 | kullervo | you don't get much of those anymore, the networks are better than they were 10-20 years ago |
| 03:00.41 | Torhal | Noisy is fine, when it's more than a single person doing the typing. :D |
| 03:01.07 | Torhal | kullervo: I kinda miss &*@~~#(*+++ |
| 03:01.12 | kullervo | the physical layer, that is. Not the irc networks, even though those might've seen updates too. |
| 03:01.13 | Neffi | If that's what you want, I could bring up religion or politics |
| 03:01.31 | Torhal | Neffi: I thought that's what's been discussed here already? |
| 03:01.50 | kullervo | Neffi: we're up to data links now |
| 03:01.51 | Neffi | It has |
| 03:02.07 | Torhal | % Connection closed by foreign host. |
| 03:03.29 | Amarande | kullervo: well there isn't really much to improve in ircd |
| 03:03.40 | Amarande | it's always been one of the most mature and secure of the major services |
| 03:03.49 | Amarande | not always to its benefit, perhaps, too :| |
| 03:04.19 | Aeger73 | I was wondering something about namespaces. I've been using something that I dont understand. When you delcare something = ... what does the ... mean? |
| 03:04.45 | Torhal | Aeger73: WoW passes in folder_name, shared_between_files_table |
| 03:04.45 | Aeger73 | I just know it works lol sorry for being a noob |
| 03:05.11 | Torhal | I typically name mine: local FOLDER_NAME, private = ... |
| 03:05.35 | Torhal | Since it's initially a private table that every file in the AddOn can see (unless you make it public) |
| 03:06.15 | kullervo | Amarande: mostly it's the network services that are better. Spammers get auto killed etc. |
| 03:07.10 | Neffi | Aeger73: When you define a function, you can use `...` to capture extra arguments. The WoW Lua engine uses this to pass arguments directly to the Lua files as they're loaded, as if the file were one huge function. |
| 03:07.42 | Neffi | Aeger73: What it passes is that name of the addon folder (exactly, including capitalization) and a table. The same table is passed to all files of a particular addon, but only that addon. Each addon gets its own folder. |
| 03:07.57 | Neffi | You're free to use this table however you want. I use it for my namespace. |
| 03:08.07 | Semlar | i use it for lunch |
| 03:08.10 | *** join/#wowuidev ShadniX| (~shadnix@p5DDFD5D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 03:09.07 | kullervo | I toss it in a corner and get very surprised upon finding it later |
| 03:10.34 | Aeger73 | so when you pass FOLDER_NAME it passes the name of the addon folder? |
| 03:10.43 | Semlar | nope |
| 03:10.52 | Semlar | ... is a vararg which contains 2 variables |
| 03:11.21 | kd3 | you're assigning the ...vararg to two local variables, FOLDER_NAME and private in torhal's example |
| 03:11.44 | Neffi | So when you look at the code I gave you: local name,mod = ... |
| 03:11.55 | Neffi | name is the exactly name of the addon folder, eg "nfMinimap" |
| 03:11.57 | Aeger73 | I've been digging around a lot of addons and that part is confusing me, like in Bartender4 he uses local _, Bartender4 = ... |
| 03:12.28 | Torhal | Aeger73: In Lua it's a convention to use _ for throwaway variables. |
| 03:12.34 | Torhal | He doesn't use the folder name anywhere. |
| 03:12.59 | Semlar | how do you explain variables to someone |
| 03:14.00 | Torhal | I use all-caps as a convention for constant (though in Lua constant doesn't actually exist) values - the name of the folder your AddOn (which is usually the name of the AddOn itself) never changes. |
| 03:14.01 | Neffi | It's a lot easier if you have paper and a pen, and you're doing it in person |
| 03:15.02 | Torhal | The notable exception are things like Ackis Recipe List. The folder is AckisRecipeList, but I want to display it with spaces to users so I never use FOLDER_NAME for that. I _will_ use that for accessing media files. |
| 03:15.06 | Amarande | yeah I've still not really gotten into WoW Lua very readily |
| 03:15.30 | Amarande | I've been able to fix the occasional this and that, but generally only when it just involves having to change a number (like the occasional addon that's ALMOST perfect on a new xpack but hard-coded the level cap) |
| 03:15.52 | Amarande | Part of it, I suspect, is that I'm not particularly handy with object-oriented programming in general |
| 03:15.59 | Amarande | which this seems to be at least |
| 03:16.10 | Neffi | Lua is not object-oriented |
| 03:16.11 | Aeger73 | hence _G.AckisRecipeList = addon? |
| 03:16.29 | Neffi | It provides useful syntactical sugar for implementing your own OOP ideals/paradigm. |
| 03:16.42 | Torhal | Aeger73: Yes, but that's for the public parts. Notice I still use the private table liberally. Stuff that other files needs access to but not the outside world. |
| 03:16.53 | Semlar | why would you put _G in there |
| 03:17.04 | Semlar | unless that were already the name of a local variable |
| 03:17.10 | Neffi | Lua follows the philosophy of giving you the tools to make the features, not the features themselves. That's why it's kept to lightweight and relatively easy to embed. |
| 03:17.15 | Torhal | Semlar: To appease my editor, which marks globals in red. I upvalue _G for that purpose. |
| 03:17.28 | Semlar | feh! |
| 03:17.30 | Torhal | :D |
| 03:17.34 | kd3 | making it explicit that you're using it as a global--bah |
| 03:17.39 | Torhal | kd3: That as well. |
| 03:17.48 | Semlar | i capitalize the first letter of my globals |
| 03:17.53 | Semlar | and don't do it to my locals |
| 03:18.01 | Neffi | I hate that convention |
| 03:18.08 | Semlar | i hate your face |
| 03:18.13 | Neffi | You should just prefix your globals with `six_` |
| 03:18.26 | Torhal | ThisIsAFunction, this_is_a_variable, THIS_IS_A_CONSTANT |
| 03:18.32 | Semlar | THIS IS SPARTA |
| 03:18.35 | kd3 | the checkstyle config I'm saddled with prefixes "this." on *everything* |
| 03:18.43 | Torhal | refrains from kicking Semlar into a pit. |
| 03:18.49 | kd3 | it's freaking excessive |
| 03:19.33 | Neffi | Torhal: What editor do you use? |
| 03:19.50 | Torhal | Neffi: Sylvanaar wrote a Lua plugin for IntelliJ |
| 03:19.50 | Amarande | six is a nice number |
| 03:19.54 | Amarande | the red sox should be winning in it :) |
| 03:20.11 | Amarande | kd3: nonono |
| 03:20.15 | Amarande | "this is freaking excessive" :D |
| 03:20.45 | Aeger73 | do you ever make your own libraries? or is that your Constants.lua Torhal? |
| 03:21.21 | Torhal | Constants.lua (I'm assuming you mean Ackis Recipe List) are constants that are used throughout the AddOn files. |
| 03:21.35 | Torhal | I have a few libs, though. LibQTip, LibToast, LibDialog... |
| 03:23.58 | Neffi | Woah. They made Ender's Game into a movie. |
| 03:24.16 | Semlar | they made ender's game into a book? |
| 03:24.18 | Torhal | I don't watch TV or news, and I knew that. You are frightening me. |
| 03:24.40 | Torhal | Ok, ok - I do occasionally go to Sci-Fi and gaming news sites... |
| 03:24.49 | Neffi | I don't watch TV or follow news, so I don't keep up with this stuff |
| 03:24.53 | Torhal | :D |
| 03:24.54 | Semlar | so you know about ghost shark? |
| 03:24.54 | Sintacks | [Semlar] Sintacks: i don't even see a realm listed for my real id friends |
| 03:24.57 | Neffi | The only news I get is Ars Technica, really |
| 03:24.57 | Sintacks | where are you expecting them? |
| 03:25.06 | Semlar | where it says Realm: |
| 03:25.18 | Sintacks | hmm |
| 03:25.21 | Sintacks | and that's default UI |
| 03:25.33 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:25.54 | Neffi | Anyone having problems with Rotten Tomatoes being generally broken? At the very least, its CSS won't load for me |
| 03:25.56 | Semlar | that's the default ui |
| 03:26.14 | Sintacks | that explains why TitanSocial has no realm info in realID stuff |
| 03:26.54 | Semlar | the BNGetToonInfo and BNGetFriendInfo functions don't appear to contain the realm |
| 03:27.43 | Semlar | i don't know if it's a problem with battle net, coalescing realms, or the api |
| 03:28.18 | Semlar | might have something to do with the realmName cvar also disappearing |
| 03:28.34 | Neffi | You mean it's not returning them correctly? |
| 03:28.41 | Semlar | it's not returning them at all |
| 03:28.44 | Neffi | Ok |
| 03:29.55 | Semlar | i guess BNGetToonInfo is the one that's supposed to do it |
| 03:30.03 | Neffi | It is |
| 03:30.12 | Neffi | FriendFrame.lua snaps realmName from that |
| 03:30.19 | Neffi | s/snaps/snags/ |
| 03:32.36 | kullervo | I guess you're familiar with oQueue... Is the incorrect time notification something I can fix or is it broken? |
| 03:32.36 | Semlar | well |
| 03:32.49 | Semlar | technically it returns a number for the realm id? but not the realm name |
| 03:32.57 | Semlar | i don't know if you can turn that number into a realm name |
| 03:34.05 | Semlar | kullervo: i have no idea how oqueue gets its time information but it's probably terrible |
| 03:34.06 | Neffi | I know the tooltip *used to* show the realm |
| 03:34.45 | Neffi | Oh wow, Legend of Korra looks beautiful in HD http://hcd-1.imgbox.com/abwEsU9q.png?st=_TesSaaaBNR9rU-IFg51xw&e=1383105812 |
| 03:35.07 | kullervo | Semlar: just thought of it myself and it's probably updated from the "scorekeeper" |
| 03:35.08 | Neffi | I really hope they continue making Avatar series and generally keeping the writing top-notch |
| 03:35.08 | Aeger73 | last night I was reading on creating libraries. I have 3 functions that I use a lot. I pasted them in here http://pastebin.com/R641miTr I know it wont work the way it is . |
| 03:35.08 | Semlar | i'm pretty sure every time i used oq it told me my clock was wrong |
| 03:35.26 | Semlar | i don't even know what it uses that information for |
| 03:35.30 | kullervo | Semlar: so if the "trusted" time is wrong, then everyone's time would appear wrong to the addon |
| 03:35.32 | Aeger73 | is the event frame one even possible to make into a library func |
| 03:35.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Drool (~drool@host109-158-208-103.range109-158.btcentralplus.com) |
| 03:35.54 | Neffi | Aeger73: Don't make a library |
| 03:36.05 | Neffi | Put your code in your addon |
| 03:36.32 | Aeger73 | oh its already there. I was just experimenting |
| 03:36.43 | Neffi | People make libraries for the benefit of being able to share code between projects. There are several very high quality event libraries already. |
| 03:36.55 | Neffi | Eg, Ace3 |
| 03:37.07 | Aeger73 | I'm using ace3 heavily now |
| 03:37.42 | Neffi | This code looks strangely familiar. |
| 03:37.56 | Aeger73 | Yes lol |
| 03:38.15 | Aeger73 | thats the event handler you shows me way back |
| 03:38.22 | Aeger73 | shoed* |
| 03:38.28 | Aeger73 | sigh |
| 03:40.01 | Aeger73 | I've been using that event handler in each module of my UI |
| 03:40.21 | Aeger73 | It works well, and handy having all of the evnts in one place |
| 03:40.44 | Semlar | it's not something you need a library for though |
| 03:40.47 | Torhal | Aeger73: That should actually just be in your AddOn directly. |
| 03:40.52 | Torhal | Aye, what Semlar said. |
| 03:41.05 | Semlar | i have only made 2 libraries ever and i make a ton of addons |
| 03:41.35 | Semlar | and that's because they basically created giant databases i wouldn't want to duplicate |
| 03:41.41 | Neffi | Yeah, Semlar's pretty well known for his library "Six" |
| 03:41.45 | Neffi | Silly name if you ask me |
| 03:41.46 | Semlar | :| |
| 03:41.56 | Torhal | ...of Nine? |
| 03:43.12 | Torhal | Amarande: FishingBuddy update just rolled in. |
| 03:43.47 | Amarande | Torhal: yay, hopefully it'll be in curse client shortly :) |
| 03:43.57 | Amarande | any good news on QuestGuru yet? |
| 03:44.00 | Torhal | I just approved the file, so it should be. |
| 03:44.03 | Torhal | Not yet. |
| 03:44.18 | Aeger73 | ok i'll skip the library. I think I mostly just wanted to do it just to do one |
| 03:44.24 | Amarande | so far I haven't seen anything else puke on 5.4.1 |
| 03:44.43 | Torhal | Apparently Archy does, but I'll look at that tomorrow at lunch or something. |
| 03:44.54 | Aeger73 | SocialState had the same issue as ara guild friends |
| 03:44.57 | Amarande | ah, I do have archy but I haven't looked at it |
| 03:45.07 | Torhal | I'm surprised I haven't gotten a slew of _NPCScan reports since most of the interaction is config-based. |
| 03:45.08 | Amarande | mostly because I haven't played any of my old characters much since I resubbed |
| 03:45.13 | Aeger73 | I put same line they added in Ara to fix SocialState |
| 03:45.13 | Amarande | and this monk hasn't reached 20 yet |
| 03:45.42 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:45.57 | Neffi | top one |
| 03:46.10 | Neffi | ehh |
| 03:46.16 | Semlar | i'm annoyed that this is the largest i can make it using a font string |
| 03:46.28 | Neffi | That's my first instinct, but I'd have to see it in action to choose |
| 03:46.39 | Semlar | that's the same font i'm using with textures except bigger |
| 03:46.42 | Neffi | I think the top one looks a bit better all around, but the bottom one may "feel" better because it's bigger |
| 03:46.59 | Torhal | Bottom looks Borderlands-ish. |
| 03:47.10 | Semlar | the bottom is actually using the same font as the text |
| 03:47.14 | Neffi | Actually, go with the bottom font |
| 03:47.32 | Neffi | I think I'd prefer that because of how you use it as a status bar |
| 03:48.13 | Semlar | if i set it up to use a font i can let people set it to whatever they want anyway |
| 03:48.30 | Neffi | How can you implement a status bar with a font? |
| 03:48.38 | Semlar | scrollframe |
| 03:48.45 | Neffi | The only way I know of is scrollframes, and that's not good |
| 03:48.50 | Semlar | you're not good! |
| 03:48.59 | Semlar | i love scrollframes |
| 03:49.14 | Semlar | they let me do stuff like this |
| 03:49.36 | Neffi | Iriel mentioned scrollframes stall the rendering. Might not be true anymore though. |
| 03:49.55 | Neffi | If you end up changing lots of values for lots of units often, you could hit the FPS hard |
| 03:50.02 | Semlar | one of the nameplate addons i've used uses a scrollframe on every plate |
| 03:50.15 | Neffi | Do users complain about performance? |
| 03:50.32 | Semlar | i guess that's a bad example because it's kind of a crazy addon to begin with |
| 03:50.40 | Neffi | I mean, test it out with a liberal amount of frames. See if all's good. |
| 03:50.50 | Semlar | i doubt it'll impact performance though |
| 03:51.04 | Neffi | But things like this have to scale well. Because when you're showing tons of units on-screen, is usually when performance is both at its worst, and also must be at its best |
| 03:51.35 | Neffi | FPS are precious when you'll be drawing 200+ of these |
| 03:51.51 | *** join/#wowuidev nibordoohe (~thubble@50.92.37.129) |
| 03:51.57 | Semlar | we shall see |
| 03:52.33 | Neffi | Test it for real. Because I'm assuming it's the act of changing the scroll area that would stall rendering. So you need a real-world example where many scroll areas are changed often |
| 03:52.46 | Amarande | Neffi: heh, that's probably why the "demonic hordes" game idea pretty much died out with DOOM |
| 03:52.50 | Semlar | although i did a stress test with something like 5000 font strings per plate when i came up with this nameplate method |
| 03:53.26 | Amarande | once people came to expect detailed 3D rendering instead of 2D sprites, you couldn't afford to pack rooms with tens of enemies all that often without causing the engine to chug and players to get the sads |
| 03:53.46 | Amarande | and a lot of times you still can't really ... remember Dalaran? :) |
| 03:54.03 | Neffi | Depends heavily on the engine |
| 03:54.06 | Amarande | (though ... even DOOM has its limits, as anyone who's tried nuts.wad can attest) |
| 03:54.32 | Neffi | There've been a lot of games that could handle a lot of units impressively well. They also tend to have much less complicated AI and interaction. |
| 03:54.58 | Neffi | Semlar: 5000? I think you might be good then |
| 03:55.02 | Neffi | ;) |
| 03:55.26 | Amarande | oh right, I can't test to see if archy is broken or not |
| 03:55.31 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:55.32 | Amarande | I don't know archaeology on this toon *headdesk* |
| 03:55.52 | Neffi | Semlar: Oh. I imagine the amount of scrollframes makes a difference |
| 03:56.02 | Amarande | Neffi: yeah, DOOM was always pretty good at handling oodles of units, especially as computers got more powerful |
| 03:56.13 | Neffi | It would have to stall when the scroll area is changed to recalculate the bounds of what's rendered |
| 03:56.16 | Amarande | hence the popularity of slaughter WADs |
| 03:56.36 | Amarande | something that you basically like I said, can't really do so much on a more "modern" FPS because that many active enemies will cause you to chug like mad |
| 03:56.46 | Neffi | Cow level? |
| 03:57.34 | Amarande | although there's only so far you can go with slaughter WADs, too |
| 03:57.35 | Semlar | i never managed to crop the clickable area of the nameplates |
| 03:57.45 | Semlar | i'm not sure it's possible |
| 03:57.55 | Semlar | well, in combat |
| 03:58.03 | Semlar | which is the only time i care |
| 03:58.07 | Neffi | It doesn't seem like it is, no |
| 03:58.10 | Amarande | the aforementioned "nuts.wad", basically, consists of two rooms with a total of about 10,000 monsters between them |
| 03:58.21 | Neffi | Meh |
| 03:58.28 | Neffi | I don't find games like that all that interesting |
| 03:58.30 | Amarande | it causes even modern computers to chug :) |
| 03:58.47 | Neffi | "It's too easy! How do we make gameplay compelling?" "MOAR ENEMIES" |
| 03:58.52 | Neffi | Not very creative |
| 03:59.20 | Amarande | yeah, sometimes it seems like there's *too* many slaughter WADs lately |
| 03:59.21 | phelps | Semlar: im tracking units quite well now |
| 03:59.30 | Semlar | ah, good |
| 03:59.32 | Amarande | although even strategic WADs have to be partly slaughter a lot of the time now to hold interests |
| 03:59.44 | Neffi | I mean, I know complex AI and stuff is very hard to do, so I don't fault old games for leveraging hoards of enemies for the challenge. But we have fast CPUs now. |
| 03:59.47 | phelps | Semlar: you'd probably lulz @ my methods though |
| 04:00.10 | Semlar | possibly |
| 04:00.45 | Neffi | Well, I'm gonna go rewatch some Korra |
| 04:01.03 | Semlar | i should probably make this modular as i rewrite it |
| 04:01.37 | phelps | Semlar: https://gist.github.com/benphelps/7227053 |
| 04:02.11 | phelps | I never figured out UNIT_HEALTH for non-players |
| 04:02.27 | Semlar | well |
| 04:02.51 | Semlar | i did write a libraryish thing to track the health of what i was in combat with the combat log but i don't know where that code is now |
| 04:03.25 | phelps | tracking the health I got done pretty good I think, its getting the initial health to perform the maths on |
| 04:03.26 | Amarande | well, part of it is that people have pretty much learned how to deal with individual mobs or small groups most of the time in DOOM, so unless there's a major tactical disadvantage, it's just not all that challenging unless you have a reasonably large number of decently tough enemies |
| 04:03.28 | Semlar | it put all of the mob portraits on a line like CoolLine at their health %s |
| 04:03.50 | Amarande | if there IS a major tactical disadvantage, well, two chaingunners can be trouble |
| 04:04.17 | phelps | Semlar: I'm using a "cache" of unit healths |
| 04:04.21 | Semlar | actually i do know where it is |
| 04:04.28 | Semlar | it's on curse somewhere |
| 04:04.31 | phelps | to pretty much guess what the units max health could be |
| 04:04.49 | Semlar | or at least a version of it |
| 04:05.06 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:05.33 | Semlar | there is no way this currently works |
| 04:05.37 | phelps | giggled @ name |
| 04:05.54 | Aeger73 | http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/oct/29/bitcoin-forgotten-currency-norway-oslo-home |
| 04:05.58 | Aeger73 | lucky sob |
| 04:06.03 | Semlar | i know they've changed the order of the combat log arguments since i wrote it |
| 04:07.41 | pompy | Torhal: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=575750202479675&set=a.414413855279978.99986.276710412383657&type=1 |
| 04:08.38 | nibordoohe | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:09.06 | nibordoohe | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:09.35 | Semlar | exit the game completely |
| 04:09.42 | Semlar | replace the file |
| 04:09.49 | Semlar | then load it and see if it works |
| 04:09.55 | nibordoohe | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:10.06 | Semlar | then either you've missed a cvar or it can't be done |
| 04:10.06 | nibordoohe | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:10.10 | nibordoohe | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:10.25 | nibordoohe | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:10.33 | Semlar | you definitely can't replace the file while the game is open though |
| 04:10.40 | Semlar | it'll just get overwritten |
| 04:10.41 | nibordoohe | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:10.46 | phelps | Semlar: yeah, you're using events like UNIT_TARGET and stuff |
| 04:10.58 | phelps | I'd never thought of that |
| 04:10.59 | nibordoohe | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:11.10 | nibordoohe | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:11.39 | Semlar | is that the correct file? |
| 04:11.59 | nibordoohe | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:12.04 | Semlar | yeah |
| 04:12.36 | nibordoohe | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:12.55 | Semlar | what about the account-wide one |
| 04:13.02 | Aeger73 | is wow installed in program files? |
| 04:13.34 | Semlar | do you have Character specific key bindings enabled or not |
| 04:13.44 | nibordoohe | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:13.54 | kd3 | only if you have the setting enabled |
| 04:14.04 | nibordoohe | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:14.14 | Semlar | it's in the top right of the key bindings window |
| 04:14.22 | Semlar | and probably a cvar |
| 04:14.28 | Semlar | i don't know what it's called though |
| 04:14.43 | nibordoohe | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:14.46 | nibordoohe | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:14.50 | nibordoohe | crosses fingers |
| 04:15.10 | nibordoohe | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:15.16 | nibordoohe | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:15.19 | Semlar | and replace the file again |
| 04:15.26 | nibordoohe | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:15.31 | Semlar | after probably |
| 04:15.39 | Semlar | well i guess it depends on what you mean by that |
| 04:16.31 | Semlar | i don't use character specific bindings so i use have the one under the account name |
| 04:16.50 | Semlar | just have* |
| 04:17.35 | Semlar | phelps: i wrote that like 3 years ago and i'm sure i had intentions of changing some things |
| 04:17.42 | Sintacks | hmm. |
| 04:17.56 | Sintacks | that explains why RealID toons isn't working quite right. |
| 04:18.16 | Sintacks | the realm name of the battletag/realid friend doesn't exist, so it's assuming they are on the same server/faction as you |
| 04:18.29 | Semlar | you could use the realm id in the meantime |
| 04:18.32 | Semlar | it's still changing |
| 04:18.51 | Semlar | it's the argument just after the realm name |
| 04:20.30 | Sintacks | I assume blizzard knows they've fucked shit up and are working on fixing it |
| 04:20.43 | Semlar | you could still switch if that's all you need it for |
| 04:21.14 | Torhal | pompy: Heh, nice |
| 04:21.26 | Semlar | if you need the realm name though i don't know if the IDs are permanent |
| 04:21.28 | Sintacks | someone fix prat already |
| 04:22.28 | Torhal | Sintacks: What's wrong with it? |
| 04:22.35 | Sintacks | Message: Error: AddOn ExtSocialUI attempted to call a forbidden function (IsDisabledByParentalControls()) from a tainted execution path |
| 04:22.43 | Mr_Rabies | mine's working |
| 04:23.01 | Sintacks | telltarget is broken |
| 04:23.12 | Sintacks | has been since 5.4 |
| 04:23.18 | Sintacks | http://www.wowace.com/addons/prat-3-0/tickets/676-tell-target-fix-post-5-4/ |
| 04:23.33 | Mr_Rabies | also wow, holy hell, the pvp stuff for the legendary quest is a nightmare now |
| 04:23.44 | Sintacks | how so? |
| 04:24.02 | Amarande | Sintacks: 5.4.1 broke a horrendous percentage of addons hither and yon, all with the same root cause |
| 04:24.16 | Sintacks | this isn't about 5.4.1 |
| 04:24.18 | Sintacks | this is about 5.4 |
| 04:24.22 | Torhal | BTW, Neffi: https://bitbucket.org/sylvanaar2/lua-for-idea/wiki/Home |
| 04:24.53 | Amarande | just a little detail of changing a little function in the Blizz API apparently ... but you know what they say is in the details heh |
| 04:25.29 | Mr_Rabies | Sintacks: my guildie has queued like 30-40 times for both and has yet to get either |
| 04:25.37 | Sintacks | ew |
| 04:25.51 | Mr_Rabies | the gear scaling down to 500 ilvl is pretty much wrecking it |
| 04:25.52 | Semlar | that is impressive |
| 04:26.20 | Amarande | Mr_Rabies: yeah I had always wondered since 5.0 what would become of that legendary quest as the expansion progressed |
| 04:26.24 | Mr_Rabies | we tried to get a guild group but most of us forgot about the scaling |
| 04:26.31 | Semlar | those are fantastically bad odds |
| 04:26.37 | Mr_Rabies | and as a result |
| 04:26.37 | Amarande | especially with how many things you have to get a huge number of other people to do |
| 04:26.39 | Mr_Rabies | we got totally spanked |
| 04:26.46 | Mr_Rabies | like |
| 04:26.47 | Mr_Rabies | TOTALLY |
| 04:26.56 | Mr_Rabies | their lowest HKs were 26 |
| 04:26.59 | Mr_Rabies | our highest was 2 |
| 04:26.59 | Semlar | i would queue individually |
| 04:27.12 | nibordoohe | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:27.15 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, he has for the other 30-40 times |
| 04:27.20 | Mr_Rabies | it's just |
| 04:27.26 | Semlar | how is your battle group that imbalanced |
| 04:27.30 | Mr_Rabies | on alliance, only pvers are queueing for those bgroups |
| 04:27.35 | Mr_Rabies | er |
| 04:27.39 | Mr_Rabies | bgs |
| 04:27.52 | Mr_Rabies | so a group in pvp gear on horde will absolutely wreck us |
| 04:28.05 | Semlar | i did it in full pve gear and i didn't do that badly |
| 04:28.11 | Semlar | although that was a while ago |
| 04:28.21 | Mr_Rabies | it was probably before the scaling |
| 04:28.33 | Mr_Rabies | dunno when that was added, but it was after i had completed it too |
| 04:28.34 | Semlar | it was scaled down |
| 04:28.47 | Mr_Rabies | i'm totally ineffectual in pvp now, i just got stunlocked and repeatedly killed |
| 04:28.48 | Semlar | otherwise i would have completely crushed everyone |
| 04:28.52 | Mr_Rabies | even 1v1 i didn't stand a chance |
| 04:29.00 | Semlar | nobody stands a chance against me in world pve because my gear is so op |
| 04:29.02 | Mr_Rabies | sooooo i have zero desire to ever do pvp again lol |
| 04:30.09 | Semlar | i was farming bloody coins for a little while but started to feel bad about it |
| 04:30.30 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, it's weird to go from like 52% crit to 34% |
| 04:30.58 | Amarande | how exactly does this gear scaling thing work? |
| 04:31.08 | Mr_Rabies | all gear above 500 ilvl is scaled to 500 |
| 04:31.21 | Semlar | it just lowers all the stat values on your gear to whatever it would be at the item level they scale it to |
| 04:31.24 | Mr_Rabies | going from like 97% mastery to like 40% :| |
| 04:31.35 | Semlar | at least that's the idea |
| 04:31.46 | Semlar | it doesn't scale perfectly |
| 04:31.59 | Semlar | higher ilevel gear still has more stats usually |
| 04:32.04 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, there's some weirdness with rounding |
| 04:33.27 | *** join/#wowuidev NickG365_ (~Nick@cpe-71-74-240-23.neo.res.rr.com) |
| 04:34.37 | Torhal | rounds Semlar's FontStrings. |
| 04:34.49 | Semlar | get away from those! |
| 04:35.01 | Torhal | :/ |
| 04:42.27 | Sintacks | didn't blizzard lose it's old UI coder a while back |
| 04:43.03 | Torhal | Sintacks: He works for Valve now, if you're talking about Sam Lantinga. |
| 04:43.09 | Torhal | AKA Slouken |
| 04:43.09 | Sintacks | that might be who |
| 04:43.11 | Sintacks | i heard something about that |
| 04:43.21 | Sintacks | and after him leaving, a lot of UI bugs started showing up |
| 04:43.25 | Sintacks | like the _ taint |
| 04:43.32 | Sintacks | and a lot of other taint |
| 04:43.34 | Neffi | I don't think that's true |
| 04:43.37 | Sintacks | idk |
| 04:43.39 | Sintacks | might be |
| 04:43.40 | Sintacks | might not be |
| 04:43.41 | Neffi | Slouken left a while ago |
| 04:43.42 | Sintacks | seems like it |
| 04:43.46 | Sintacks | it was a while ago |
| 04:43.48 | Neffi | And he wasn't the only one of the UI team at the time |
| 04:43.50 | Neffi | AFAIK |
| 04:43.59 | Sintacks | that the UI started being buggy more often |
| 04:44.01 | Torhal | Zootfizzle also left. |
| 04:44.07 | Neffi | It's not like after he left, all the talent disappeared |
| 04:44.16 | Sintacks | it seems like whoever is there now, doesn't know what they are doing |
| 04:44.20 | Neffi | Torhal: Oh wow. When? |
| 04:44.21 | Sintacks | or is an idiot |
| 04:44.29 | Torhal | Neffi: Few years back. |
| 04:44.33 | Neffi | heh |
| 04:44.49 | Torhal | That's why he doesn't live in this channel anymore. He stopped in a couple of months back saying he was thinking of trying to go back. |
| 04:45.05 | Neffi | He left or got let go? |
| 04:45.13 | Torhal | Left from what he said. |
| 04:45.24 | Neffi | I wonder why |
| 04:46.28 | Torhal | Neffi: Actually, Zoot stopped showing up here shortly after /framestack and /dump were added to the client. |
| 04:46.47 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:47.04 | airtonix | Semlar: not enough green |
| 04:47.06 | Torhal | He made the announcement that "authors are going to get some love soon" (paraphrasing) right before they came in |
| 04:47.16 | Semlar | ONE HUNDRED |
| 04:47.28 | Semlar | i don't normally display anything when they're at full health |
| 04:47.46 | airtonix | obligatory: ur ui is bad |
| 04:48.18 | Semlar | the default ui on my bank character is bad? |
| 04:49.07 | Sintacks | lol @ dat 2 year old pump on forums for a Titan Panel post |
| 04:49.17 | Sintacks | s/pump/bump/ |
| 04:53.21 | Neffi | Semlar: Once again, I love it |
| 04:53.27 | Neffi | Brilliant design |
| 04:53.43 | Neffi | If I were still playing, I'd steal it ;) |
| 04:54.50 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:55.25 | Neffi | Stick with the first one IMO |
| 04:55.34 | Neffi | The one somebody said look Borderlands-ish |
| 04:56.05 | Neffi | Are you releasing this work? |
| 04:56.30 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:56.38 | Amarande | oh, wtf now |
| 04:56.54 | Semlar | i probably will if i finish cleaning it up |
| 04:56.57 | Amarande | I just did a /console reloadui and the keyboard stopped working in wow |
| 04:57.07 | Amarande | mouse works, can alt-tab out too, but none of the keys are doing anything in game |
| 04:57.17 | Semlar | maybe a text box is intercepting them |
| 04:57.33 | Semlar | i screwed myself over testing a text box that stole focus |
| 04:57.41 | Neffi | Sounds right |
| 04:57.55 | Semlar | i didn't give it a way to lose focus so.. |
| 04:57.57 | Neffi | Make sure any text boxes are set to :SetAutoFocus(false) or hidden |
| 04:58.18 | Amarande | unless now I'm getting double-action from the parentalcontrols bug |
| 04:58.42 | Amarande | like, some addon tripping the thing on login but the error box not showing, but stealing focus, or something ... |
| 04:58.50 | Amarande | hm not that, relog and all's well |
| 04:59.02 | *** join/#wowuidev NickG365 (~Nick@cpe-71-74-240-23.neo.res.rr.com) |
| 04:59.22 | Semlar | i think the scrollframe is slightly less accurate than SetTexCoords was |
| 04:59.40 | Semlar | it's like rounding the clip to the nearest pixel or something |
| 04:59.56 | Semlar | it's not really a big deal but i'd prefer it didn't do that |
| 05:00.20 | Semlar | like at 10% it'll look completely empty |
| 05:01.08 | Amarande | meanwhile, as a more genuinely acceptable gripe |
| 05:01.22 | Amarande | why does it seem like nearly all the quest leather at low levels is intellect :( |
| 05:01.52 | Neffi | Semlar: Change your logic to bump it |
| 05:02.07 | Neffi | So it scales to ~15% at 10% or something |
| 05:02.08 | Amarande | "oh, hey, he went windwalker, let's give him intellect leather" :P |
| 05:02.31 | Mr_Rabies | it used to be, but it's a lot more spread out now |
| 05:02.52 | Neffi | Amarande: It's still better than the old days when everything had a lot of spirit and very little real stats, or otherwise stats that made no sense whatsoever |
| 05:03.00 | Neffi | At least itnellect leather is useful for somebody |
| 05:03.16 | Amarande | heh, you mean silly things like agility+spirit? |
| 05:03.18 | Semlar | i think it's on a pixel boundary or something |
| 05:03.20 | Mr_Rabies | agi/spirit plate! |
| 05:03.46 | Neffi | I have a feeling the origianl developers expected spirit to be really important |
| 05:03.49 | Amarande | hm, now to wonder ... what's the most useless piece of equipment ever to exist in WoW? :) |
| 05:04.06 | Neffi | Also let's never forget that the original hunter set (was it tier .5?) had strength on it |
| 05:04.11 | Neffi | Don't let them live that down |
| 05:04.19 | Amarande | yeah, but back then apparently every stat was useful to a hunter in at least some way |
| 05:04.26 | Amarande | hence the whole "it's hunter gear!" trouble |
| 05:04.27 | Neffi | Strength was never useful |
| 05:04.49 | Neffi | Even if you wanted to buff your melee a bit, agility gave just as much melee atp |
| 05:04.54 | Mr_Rabies | iirc str gave 1 ap |
| 05:05.06 | Mr_Rabies | but agi gave 1+ crit |
| 05:05.14 | Neffi | 1 melee AP. Agility gave 1 melee AP plus 1 ranged AP plus crit and dodge |
| 05:05.21 | Neffi | Why would strength be on there at all? |
| 05:05.42 | Mr_Rabies | same reason druid gear was a mishmash of stats |
| 05:05.42 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:06.09 | Neffi | There was a time when ferals actually wanted some intellect |
| 05:06.14 | Amarande | heh the original hunter set has had fun things since then too |
| 05:06.29 | Amarande | at one point the six-piece set bonus was impossible to use, for instance :) |
| 05:06.54 | Amarande | I don't just mean "could only be used in a ridiculously contrived context" I mean "it was not possible to trigger at all, ever" |
| 05:07.25 | Sintacks | what the fuck. now TitanSocial is broken completely and nothing was changed |
| 05:07.43 | Semlar | maybe it's haunted |
| 05:08.09 | Amarande | it was something like ... chance to restore 200 mana on a normal ranged attack |
| 05:08.20 | Neffi | Sintacks: Switch to a native Broker display? |
| 05:09.06 | Neffi | Some part of me finds it weird that Titan is still around. When FuBar came out, it seemed like everyone was glad there was a quality replacement to Titan |
| 05:10.44 | Mr_Rabies | it's like an undying frankenstein monster at this point though |
| 05:10.53 | Amarande | except post 4.0, there was literally not a single class that a) could wear mail, b) had normal ranged attacks, and c) had mana :) |
| 05:11.58 | Amarande | Neffi: For some reason I always thought Titan came *after* FuBar |
| 05:12.15 | Amarande | though I'm foggy, since FuBar was all the rage when I first started using addons |
| 05:12.32 | Neffi | Oh no. Titan is very, very old. People loved it back in vanilla. Mostly because it was the only addon of its kind |
| 05:12.38 | Amarande | I may have thought Titan came later since FuBar basically didn't survive Wrath or so, and I either didn't know about Broker or it wasn't useful enough yet |
| 05:12.41 | Neffi | FuBar came out in BC if my memory serves me correctly |
| 05:12.44 | Amarande | so I ended up using Titan for a bit as a stopgap |
| 05:13.07 | Neffi | I remember seeing the original FuBar thread on WowAce and being stoked |
| 05:13.25 | Neffi | ckknight disappeared a while ago and I guess that's when FuBar sort of ended |
| 05:13.38 | Amarande | I can't remember just what it was that broke FuBar |
| 05:13.42 | Amarande | it was a "natural" break, though |
| 05:14.11 | Neffi | I stopped using panels for a while, then somebody came up with the Broker concept and I liked it. I'm glad it panned out. |
| 05:14.13 | Torhal | The only thing that really broke was the config panel. People still fucking use it and update plugins for it. |
| 05:14.20 | Torhal | I removed it from Curse back in '11 |
| 05:14.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Hazal (~Mikkel@0x5e910d43.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 05:15.10 | Amarande | Yeah, Broker is definitely the best in terms of that kind of interface |
| 05:15.15 | pompy | Bazooka, that's all! |
| 05:15.37 | pompy | ~curse bazooka |
| 05:15.38 | purl | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, bazooka ! |
| 05:15.42 | pompy | @curse bazooka |
| 05:15.47 | Torhal | o.O |
| 05:15.56 | pompy | wha repo |
| 05:15.58 | pompy | whar* |
| 05:16.01 | Neffi | purl, you can be really dark sometimes |
| 05:16.14 | pompy | derp |
| 05:16.32 | Torhal | pompy: Repo was never in this channel. And since I made it multi-IRC-server it randomly stops responding. Need to sit down and figure that one out. |
| 05:16.54 | Torhal | It'll still spit out messages, but refuse to respond to commands. |
| 05:17.08 | *** join/#wowuidev kurapica (~kurapica@58.247.109.243) |
| 05:17.51 | pompy | well in that case |
| 05:17.55 | pompy | ~curse Torhal |
| 05:17.55 | purl | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, Torhal ! |
| 05:17.57 | pompy | jk |
| 05:18.04 | Torhal | ~whalenuke pompy |
| 05:18.04 | purl | ACTION dons her radiation cloak and tinted glasses while a highly intelligent whale named Ray precipitates critical mass for uncontrolled nuclear fission around pompy with his mind powers. |
| 05:21.28 | Semlar | alright as it moves around the screen the fill bounces up and down by about a pixel and it's driving me insane |
| 05:21.54 | Semlar | i don't know how to fix this |
| 05:23.16 | Neffi | Either enable AA or... |
| 05:25.16 | Neffi | I stole this code form another nameplate addon a while ago |
| 05:25.16 | Neffi | http://pastebin.com/eegPiLCm |
| 05:25.24 | Neffi | It fixes the pixel jumpiness |
| 05:25.28 | Semlar | it has to have something to do with the scroll frame because it doesn't do this when i use the textures |
| 05:25.50 | Amarande | sooo ... is removal of realm info from the friends panel a bug or intended? |
| 05:26.00 | Semlar | probably |
| 05:26.10 | Amarande | though I'm really not sure why blizz wouldn't want you to know your friends' realm :S |
| 05:26.13 | *** join/#wowuidev wereHamster|work (~tomc@77-56-49-28.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 05:26.23 | Neffi | So basically what that's doing is, my custom nameplate is all contained in a "child" of the real nameplate, and every screen refresh I manually position it against the floored value of where the nameplate is |
| 05:26.48 | Semlar | my nameplates aren't even a child of the real nameplates |
| 05:26.52 | Semlar | they're completely separate |
| 05:26.58 | Neffi | Then this should be easy |
| 05:27.11 | Neffi | Look at my logic and implement it in an unthrottled OnUpdate |
| 05:27.18 | Semlar | i tried something similar and it wasn't working |
| 05:27.51 | Neffi | Then maybe code in two separate codepaths, one that uses textures and one that uses scrollframes? |
| 05:27.52 | Semlar | f:SetPoint('BOTTOMLEFT', WorldFrame, 'BOTTOMLEFT', x * scale - (f:GetWidth() / 2), y * scale) |
| 05:28.09 | Neffi | Provide the scrollframe option for people who want to use arbitrary fonts, and the texture option for those who dislike jumpiness |
| 05:28.34 | Neffi | Semlar: Try floor()ing the values |
| 05:29.12 | Semlar | i think i only have this in here because i was testing something i ripped out of kui |
| 05:29.57 | Neffi | The performance on my implementation is perfectly good with many nameplates, so no need to concern yourself with hitting the CPU hard |
| 05:30.18 | Semlar | it's still doing it amg |
| 05:30.27 | Neffi | =( |
| 05:30.39 | Neffi | You have no luck Semlar |
| 05:31.00 | Semlar | i know |
| 05:31.22 | Neffi | Texture option then? |
| 05:31.54 | Neffi | You could help alleviate the lack of configurability that's inherent to going that path, by providing a public API so people can create "skin" plugins for it |
| 05:33.11 | Neffi | With that option, you can do larger fonts too |
| 05:34.55 | Neffi | Almost a 4:1 seed ratio and I can't pass 300 kb/s download =( |
| 05:35.04 | Semlar | i'm actually not sure it doesn't do this with textures but if it did i'm almost positive i would have noticed it |
| 05:35.19 | Neffi | I don't believe it would |
| 05:35.44 | Fisker | rolls |
| 05:36.45 | pompy | I wonder if theres a fucking memory leak in the latest flash version.. its using a stupid amount of RAM than it usually does now |
| 05:37.11 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:37.23 | Semlar | you'll have to switch it to 1080p and probably restart the video |
| 05:37.48 | Semlar | if you look at the guard's nameplate it's all twitchy |
| 05:37.51 | Fisker | hey pompy |
| 05:37.55 | pompy | hey |
| 05:37.56 | Neffi | I don't have a 1080p monitor |
| 05:38.01 | Semlar | well whatevs |
| 05:38.02 | Neffi | Thanks for reminding me. It hurt my feelings |
| 05:38.19 | Semlar | higher resolution than 360 |
| 05:38.27 | Fisker | :) |
| 05:38.30 | Fisker | hey Neffi |
| 05:38.31 | Neffi | Anyway, I see what you mean. I'm guessing it's because the scrollframe doesn't properly scale the boundary of the scroll area. |
| 05:38.35 | pompy | enjoying your 800x600 Neffi |
| 05:38.37 | Neffi | hey Fisker |
| 05:38.40 | Fisker | good |
| 05:38.43 | Fisker | I'm done |
| 05:38.44 | Fisker | bye |
| 05:38.47 | Neffi | pompy: That's just mean |
| 05:39.18 | Neffi | Semlar: Does it do that with AA enabled? |
| 05:39.46 | Semlar | i don't even see antialiasing under the graphics options |
| 05:39.55 | Neffi | advanced I think |
| 05:40.04 | Neffi | "Multisampling" |
| 05:40.06 | Semlar | don't see it there either |
| 05:40.12 | Semlar | ah |
| 05:40.23 | Semlar | well what do you want it set to |
| 05:40.49 | Neffi | Some reasonable amount? I don't know |
| 05:40.51 | Semlar | it does it at 1x and 8x |
| 05:40.59 | Neffi | If it does it at 8x, then nevermind |
| 05:41.33 | Neffi | creeps Semlar's old YT videos. |
| 05:41.38 | Semlar | hey! |
| 05:41.48 | Semlar | you get out of those! |
| 05:42.10 | Neffi | you can't make me =P |
| 05:42.18 | Semlar | you don't have enough pixels to view them properly! |
| 05:42.31 | Neffi | never stopped me before |
| 05:43.43 | Semlar | youtube destroys my video quality anyway |
| 05:43.47 | Semlar | it hardly matters |
| 05:44.55 | Neffi | what hardly mattress? |
| 05:44.57 | Semlar | as soon as things start happening the quality goes waaaaay down |
| 05:45.08 | Semlar | whatever compression youtube uses it's horrible |
| 05:45.18 | Neffi | It is. It got much worse recently. |
| 05:45.54 | Neffi | Maybe they switched to WebM. Or maybe they're slowly making the flash video look shitty so they can announce how great WebM is in comparison |
| 05:46.17 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (~quassel@250.17.9.46.customer.cdi.no) |
| 05:46.27 | Semlar | it goes "particle effects? I THINK NOT!" |
| 05:46.48 | Neffi | Vimeo's quality is much better |
| 05:46.51 | Neffi | Still not perfect |
| 05:47.08 | Semlar | vimeo doesn't allow gameplay videos or something |
| 05:47.11 | Neffi | But a huge improvement on a lot of source material |
| 05:47.13 | Semlar | there's some reason i can't use it |
| 05:47.15 | Neffi | Really? |
| 05:47.52 | Semlar | http://vimeo.com/help/guidelines |
| 05:48.04 | Semlar | "No screen-captures of video games or gameplay videos, even if edited. " |
| 05:48.48 | Semlar | so that rules out like the only reason i would use it |
| 05:49.09 | Neffi | That's pretty fucking dumb |
| 05:49.31 | Neffi | That's a lot of free traffic. Game cams are popular right now. |
| 05:49.32 | Semlar | i could also just upload the compressed files to my own server |
| 05:50.09 | Neffi | Maybe you should write a little video player page for it? Unless the bandwidth would be too much |
| 05:50.32 | Semlar | well, the video files are like 500mb or something |
| 05:51.03 | Semlar | depends on the length |
| 05:51.07 | Semlar | maybe 300-800 |
| 05:51.12 | Neffi | =/ |
| 05:51.45 | Semlar | and trust me that's with pretty good compression |
| 05:52.33 | Semlar | the clips are usually 5-10 minutes and 1080p |
| 05:52.34 | Sintacks | http://i.imgur.com/Sa7D1uv.gif |
| 05:53.14 | Neffi | AAAAHHHHHHH |
| 05:53.23 | Neffi | Why the hell would you post that here? |
| 05:53.40 | Torhal | Neffi: VIad posts worse at times. |
| 05:53.47 | Torhal | I sometimes want to slap him. |
| 05:53.47 | Sintacks | lol |
| 05:53.48 | Torhal | :D |
| 05:53.50 | Semlar | see, this is why i don't click any links |
| 05:53.54 | Sintacks | haha |
| 05:53.59 | Torhal | I have a Webkit-based IRC client. |
| 05:54.03 | Torhal | Sometimes an evil thing. |
| 05:54.05 | Semlar | you should know better by now neffi |
| 05:54.05 | Sintacks | www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/1pie5c/this_made_me_physically_cringe/ |
| 05:54.17 | Neffi | But it's usually like a cute cat or dog or something |
| 05:57.07 | Neffi | http://i.imgur.com/8Z6rSb7.gif oh god |
| 05:57.45 | Semlar | see i know not to click that because of the context |
| 05:57.53 | Semlar | but i'm still curious |
| 05:58.17 | Neffi | It's worth it |
| 05:58.22 | Semlar | i don't know |
| 05:58.27 | Semlar | seems dangerous |
| 05:58.30 | Neffi | It's a kitten GIF |
| 05:58.33 | Neffi | I promise |
| 05:58.41 | Semlar | that was a risky click |
| 06:01.17 | Semlar | i doubt this would be an issue people would notice but i would still like to make it stop |
| 06:01.46 | Sintacks | holy shit |
| 06:01.57 | Sintacks | i didn't even know the .gif kept going and had a split part |
| 06:02.07 | Neffi | I'm trying to jog my brain for ideas for you Semlar, but I've got nothing |
| 06:02.08 | Sintacks | i noped and closed ite very time before it got to that point |
| 06:02.18 | Neffi | Sintacks: lol |
| 06:02.34 | Neffi | Going the texture route seems like the only way to me |
| 06:02.48 | Neffi | (And for the record, it would certainly annoy the fuck out of me) |
| 06:04.52 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-50-166-85-212.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 06:05.41 | Semlar | it's probably less noticeable when the values are actually changing and things are moving around |
| 06:06.24 | Neffi | probably |
| 06:06.36 | Neffi | health rarely sticks at one non-100% value for an extended period |
| 06:06.38 | Semlar | maybe i should give the scrollframe a backdrop so i can see it |
| 06:07.26 | Semlar | i should probably just isolate this whole section of code |
| 06:08.40 | Semlar | maybe put it next to the textures |
| 06:11.09 | Semlar | i think i might be a little obsessive |
| 06:12.00 | Neffi | Or a perfectionist |
| 06:12.19 | Semlar | that i think is accurate |
| 06:12.41 | Semlar | that might be why i never finish anything |
| 06:13.39 | Semlar | i definitely don't have OCD |
| 06:14.16 | Semlar | i leave things all over the place |
| 06:14.24 | Neffi | Overly ambitious -> have fun planning out how awesome it's gonna be, and laying the groundwork -> it becomes a pita to complete your vision when it comes to working out details that aren't challenging, just tedious |
| 06:14.53 | airtonix | again in english Neffi? |
| 06:14.59 | airtonix | stuff is hard? |
| 06:15.09 | Semlar | he's saying stuff isn't hard |
| 06:15.26 | airtonix | oh ok |
| 06:15.27 | Semlar | just boring |
| 06:15.31 | Neffi | pretty much |
| 06:15.37 | airtonix | i'm alredy bored |
| 06:15.52 | airtonix | too bored to use the "A" key |
| 06:16.09 | Semlar | that's pretty bored |
| 06:16.17 | airtonix | ayes for days |
| 06:19.50 | Semlar | should i let my cat eat blueberries |
| 06:20.24 | Neffi | yes |
| 06:20.39 | Neffi | Wellness Core and Orijin both have blueberries in them |
| 06:20.49 | Neffi | Blueberries = packed with vitamins |
| 06:21.35 | Semlar | well i put them in some yogurt and i was going to let him lick the bowl |
| 06:22.04 | Neffi | The yogurt would be more harmful. Blueberries are good for cats. Lactose really isn't, but it's not gonna kill him |
| 06:22.22 | Neffi | If he's used to eating milk-based things, then go ahead |
| 06:22.37 | Neffi | Source: I kinda know a lot of shit about cat and dog nutrition ;) |
| 06:23.15 | Semlar | i'm pretty sure the bacteria in yogurt affects how the lactose is broken down or something |
| 06:23.28 | Semlar | i think yogurt is okay for cats |
| 06:23.41 | Neffi | It does. But I can't speak for how it would interact with a cat's stomache. |
| 06:24.06 | Neffi | That said, I've never actually seen a cat have problems from yogurt. It's something I've given to many cats. They love it, and rarely have issue. |
| 06:24.06 | Sintacks | i see (partly) why TitanSocial is bugged. it's caused by someone being on two toons/in two games at once. |
| 06:24.18 | Sintacks | so if someone is playing to games, or two toons, it makes TitanSocial break |
| 06:27.25 | Neffi | Oh, Semlar! |
| 06:27.29 | Neffi | I almost forgot to mention |
| 06:27.44 | Neffi | Don't feed him a lot of blueberries, because if he's not used to eating them in large amounts, he will shit a lot |
| 06:27.47 | Fisker | hey Semlar and Sintacks |
| 06:27.53 | Neffi | No more than a handful |
| 06:28.01 | Sintacks | hi Fisker |
| 06:28.05 | Semlar | lovely |
| 06:28.27 | Sintacks | k. temp fix for titansocial is make that part not do anything at all. yay fun. |
| 06:28.36 | Neffi | It's just because they're high in fiber and very nutrient rich |
| 06:28.55 | Neffi | Unless he eats food like Orijen or fresh fruits regularly, his body isn't accustomed to the fiber and richness |
| 06:30.03 | Neffi | Always used to have to transition rescue dogs onto the good diet slowly, over a couple weeks, because typical dog/cat foods are basically grain-based cereal |
| 06:39.32 | airtonix | sigh |
| 06:41.12 | Neffi | what's wrong, airtonix |
| 06:41.52 | airtonix | i can't watch etho play minecraft... |
| 06:42.07 | Neffi | What a travesty |
| 06:42.24 | airtonix | you have no idea |
| 06:43.23 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@c83-250-204-217.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 06:43.24 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 07:05.41 | Primer | so much taint |
| 07:15.56 | ccox | http://www.viralnova.com/army-men-costume/ |
| 07:16.09 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (~bluspacec@121.99.66.40) |
| 07:16.09 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 07:17.01 | *** join/#wowuidev cbreak-work (~cbreak@drz-wizzer.drz.ethz.ch) |
| 07:20.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Droolio (~drool@host109-158-208-103.range109-158.btcentralplus.com) |
| 07:21.21 | *** join/#wowuidev krixxkraxx (~galaris@catv-89-133-1-45.catv.broadband.hu) |
| 07:24.38 | airtonix | http://i.qkme.me/3s3yfi.jpg |
| 07:25.58 | zenzio | airtonix: lol |
| 07:26.38 | bluspacecow | INTERNETS MAKEME SMART |
| 07:27.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaylin (~Kaylin@c-71-227-220-9.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 07:30.24 | bluspacecow | ~lastseen Xinhuan |
| 07:30.34 | bluspacecow | i never get that right :| |
| 07:36.33 | Shirik | Just throwing this out there since there's a lot of gaming-oriented software people in here |
| 07:36.43 | Shirik | Interesting position opened up recently: https://jobs-insitu.icims.com/jobs/2201/software-engineer-3/job |
| 07:55.53 | tzarc | hmm, seems close to my uni degree |
| 07:58.32 | bluspacecow | s'mores Shirik |
| 07:59.17 | airtonix | i'd also like to help bringe about skynet |
| 07:59.32 | airtonix | sounds like a noble goal |
| 08:00.09 | bluspacecow | *steals R in bringe* |
| 08:00.28 | airtonix | it's copyright bluspacecow |
| 08:00.36 | bluspacecow | wat |
| 08:01.49 | *** join/#wowuidev VIad (~Vlad@151.117.45.31.customer.cdi.no) |
| 08:03.15 | Shirik | I have a totally random question |
| 08:03.22 | Shirik | for anyone that understands the wifi protocol |
| 08:03.26 | airtonix | here's a totally random answer |
| 08:03.50 | Shirik | What's stopping me from creating a fake router with the same SSID, advertising myself, and tricking a device that thinks I'm that router into sending me the passphrase? |
| 08:04.06 | airtonix | the mac address? |
| 08:04.07 | Shirik | to my knowledge there's no crypto exchange regarding the identity of the router |
| 08:04.30 | Shirik | I can easily spoof my mac address if I mess around with drivers |
| 08:04.50 | Dagmar | There's a solution to that |
| 08:04.52 | Shirik | like in the ssh world we solve this with fingerprints |
| 08:05.21 | *** join/#wowuidev chrippa (~chrippa@tanuki.se) |
| 08:05.29 | Shirik | but I don't know of an equivalent in the wifi world |
| 08:05.37 | nevcairiel | I dont think the protocol sends passphrases around, the passphrase is used for the encryption, and if you dont have the right one, the encryption wont match |
| 08:05.57 | Shirik | ah so it somehow maps to a private key? |
| 08:06.00 | Shirik | that would make sense |
| 08:06.03 | Dagmar | Shirik: https://www.thinkgeek.com/product/14a7/ |
| 08:06.11 | Dagmar | One of my old partners in crime, so to speak |
| 08:06.16 | Shirik | wat |
| 08:06.18 | Dagmar | except the wrong damn URL |
| 08:06.24 | airtonix | lewl |
| 08:06.36 | Shirik | I approve of that product too |
| 08:06.37 | nevcairiel | spaceship cookies are good too |
| 08:06.37 | Dagmar | http://blip.tv/phreaknic/2011-11-5-phreaknic15-014-decius-fixing-wifi-security-once-and-for-all-5736156 |
| 08:06.51 | Shirik | neat |
| 08:06.56 | Shirik | a little too long for me to watch at 1 AM |
| 08:06.59 | Shirik | but I'll put it in my queue |
| 08:07.05 | airtonix | wouldn't using enterprise wpa2 with radius make this a non issue? |
| 08:07.10 | Dagmar | Yep |
| 08:07.28 | Dagmar | ...but if you're not using Radius, then you have a problem |
| 08:07.48 | nevcairiel | for your personal wifi knowing a long password isnt the end of the world |
| 08:07.56 | Dagmar | This mechanism applies certs to a non-authenticated accesspoint, since quite often you just need to know if this is the same AP you connected to previously |
| 08:08.54 | Shirik | wonder how that would work for ESS systems |
| 08:09.02 | Shirik | like airports that are too big to have just a single AP |
| 08:09.11 | Shirik | I guess they can have their own private net |
| 08:09.21 | airtonix | how what would work? |
| 08:09.46 | Dagmar | You'd buy the Cisco product for it |
| 08:09.50 | Shirik | you're not always trying to connect to the same AP, but the same AP group instead |
| 08:10.16 | *** join/#wowuidev galaris (~galaris@91.120.23.150) |
| 08:10.23 | Shirik | anyway |
| 08:10.24 | Shirik | bed time for me |
| 08:10.33 | Dagmar | ...but largely for that you're going to definitely be using SSL for every damn thing anyway |
| 08:11.46 | bluspacecow | ...... |
| 08:11.53 | airtonix | bluspacecow |
| 08:11.54 | bluspacecow | I update all my addons then go to test it |
| 08:11.59 | bluspacecow | by opening Hearthstone |
| 08:12.00 | bluspacecow | #fail |
| 08:12.09 | airtonix | what's wrong with that? |
| 08:12.16 | airtonix | sounds reasonabubble |
| 08:12.24 | bluspacecow | ha ha no errors that way ! |
| 08:12.30 | airtonix | perfect! |
| 08:13.19 | airtonix | Dagmar: i'd love to hear what that guys got to say |
| 08:13.42 | airtonix | except i can't hear him over the 8kbs |
| 08:24.09 | Dagmar | airtonix: This may be better http://phreaknic.info/pn15/schedule.php#30 |
| 08:24.23 | Dagmar | If not, I'll go see if he's still got a copy of those docs up somewhere |
| 08:32.50 | airtonix | is hacker news falling over? |
| 08:34.02 | airtonix | yep it's down |
| 08:38.16 | haste | I'm amazed it runs as well as it does |
| 08:38.34 | airtonix | it's kind of hilarious that it's fallen over |
| 08:39.15 | airtonix | you would have thought with all the groups coming out of it they would have imparted some simple knowledge about setting up scalable websites |
| 08:39.29 | bluspacecow | ~framexml |
| 08:39.29 | purl | from memory, framexml is Blizzard's UI for WoW. Export code/art from the client by using the wow.exe -console or open 'World of Warcraft.app' --args -console after game loads press ~ and enter commands "ExportInterfaceFiles code" and "ExportInterfaceFiles art" (must be used on login screen); or view it online at http://github.com/tekkub/wow-ui-source , http://wowprogramming.com/utils/xmlbrowser or http://wow.go-hero.net/framexml |
| 08:39.33 | haste | but hacker news is implemented in Arc |
| 08:39.37 | haste | or whatever pg's language was called |
| 08:39.44 | haste | some crazy lisp-thingy |
| 08:39.59 | airtonix | yeah arc |
| 08:40.04 | airtonix | http://arclanguage.org/ |
| 08:40.04 | haste | and it uses REPL to keep the 'more links' alive |
| 08:45.25 | *** join/#wowuidev [1]Archarodim (HydraIRC@78.203.110.56) |
| 08:52.07 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 09:19.15 | airtonix | btw Dagmar, PEAP Anonymous Identity |
| 09:25.18 | karl_w_w | wtf airtonix |
| 09:25.43 | karl_w_w | it reached 37 degrees today |
| 09:25.46 | karl_w_w | why you do this? |
| 09:28.15 | airtonix | in adelaide it was actually kinda nice |
| 09:37.44 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@chello213047049072.5.graz.surfer.at) |
| 09:37.45 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@unaffiliated/stolenlegacy) |
| 09:44.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Neffi_ (~Neffi@pool-98-116-157-170.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 09:56.38 | *** join/#wowuidev chrippa (~chrippa@tanuki.se) |
| 10:12.01 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (~bluspacec@121.99.66.40) |
| 10:12.01 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 10:13.17 | karl_w_w | lol i got a shadow achievement in cookie clicker |
| 10:13.38 | phelps | Semlar: I'm uploading a video of my combat tracker, if you wanna see it |
| 10:13.46 | karl_w_w | just plain lucky: you have 1 chance in 500,000 every second or earning this achievement |
| 10:14.01 | karl_w_w | s/or/of/ |
| 10:18.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (~Kalroth@d40aa8cc.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 10:22.56 | *** join/#wowuidev galaris (~galaris@91.120.23.132) |
| 10:24.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Sintacks (~Syntax@cdm-75-109-239-234.asbnva.dh.suddenlink.net) |
| 10:25.05 | *** join/#wowuidev krixxkraxx (~galaris@91.120.23.150) |
| 10:35.33 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (harl@dslb-084-063-144-237.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:14.57 | Sintacks | oh wow. someone is actually starting a new combat log site. |
| 11:15.02 | Sintacks | i wonder if it'll work |
| 11:15.48 | Sintacks | uses adobe AIR and not java for the uploader |
| 11:15.50 | Sintacks | hmm |
| 11:20.10 | airtonix | lol |
| 11:20.13 | airtonix | adobe air? |
| 11:25.07 | *** join/#wowuidev galaris (~galaris@91.120.23.150) |
| 11:27.43 | *** join/#wowuidev chrippa (~chrippa@tanuki.se) |
| 11:28.00 | *** join/#wowuidev g0urra (~g0urra@unaffiliated/gourra) |
| 12:18.17 | tlund | it would be nice if the uploader was just .. html. |
| 12:40.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (~Lopeppepp@141.222.23.76) |
| 12:40.31 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 12:47.10 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~nevin@c-174-63-97-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 12:47.10 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 12:54.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Venara (~Venaraa@86-44-161-32-dynamic.b-ras3.chf.cork.eircom.net) |
| 12:58.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Woho (~Woho@31-151-161-87.dynamic.upc.nl) |
| 12:59.47 | karl_w_w | that's crazy tlund! |
| 12:59.55 | karl_w_w | html is so 1990s! |
| 13:01.59 | karl_w_w | they cancelled html when they got rid of netscape navigator |
| 13:09.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Ressy (~resa1983@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ARL/Ressy) |
| 13:20.42 | jleclanche | eyy nice |
| 13:20.51 | jleclanche | they dropped the on-equip cooldown on the tp trinket |
| 13:37.11 | karl_w_w | talk! talk is for lovers, Merlin |
| 13:37.37 | Kalroth | aw |
| 13:40.44 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~nevin@c-174-63-97-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 13:40.45 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 13:49.23 | jleclanche | nevcairiel: issues with Mapster in last patch? |
| 13:49.38 | nevcairiel | update before asking? :D |
| 13:49.57 | jleclanche | wee. |
| 13:50.21 | nevcairiel | although bartender still has a bug |
| 13:50.35 | nevcairiel | but i'm stuck at work :) |
| 13:50.50 | jleclanche | nevcairiel: what was the issue? i thought it was a non-ui patch |
| 13:51.01 | nevcairiel | there were tiny UI changes |
| 13:51.19 | nevcairiel | blizzard in their grand wisdom put a completely protected function in a commonly called code path |
| 13:51.39 | nevcairiel | and with completely protected i mean it wants you to disable the addon that calls it, even out of combat |
| 13:52.09 | jleclanche | sigh. |
| 13:52.22 | nevcairiel | and the worst part is, that function is a getter for a small piece of information |
| 13:52.33 | nevcairiel | A GETTER! |
| 13:52.47 | nevcairiel | they have interns working on the UI again |
| 13:53.04 | jleclanche | im curious, what function is that |
| 13:53.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (~Lopeppepp@141.222.23.76) |
| 13:53.16 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 13:53.22 | nevcairiel | C_StorePublic.IsDisabledByParentalControls |
| 13:53.42 | nevcairiel | its called in UpdateMicroButtons |
| 13:53.47 | nevcairiel | .. which is called from about everywhere |
| 13:54.40 | nevcairiel | so expect to see it again |
| 13:55.57 | karl_w_w | dammit nevcairiel it's spelt guetta |
| 13:57.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Telshin (~textual@2001:408:0:100:c0ba:167f:6e5b:be58) |
| 14:04.46 | *** join/#wowuidev tem (~tardmrr@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
| 14:04.47 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tem] by ChanServ |
| 14:25.48 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (~bluspacec@121.99.66.40) |
| 14:25.48 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 14:39.55 | *** join/#wowuidev krixxkraxx (~galaris@91.120.23.132) |
| 14:40.59 | *** join/#wowuidev galaris (~galaris@91.120.23.150) |
| 14:45.30 | TC-Work | http://i.imgur.com/EON74ew.jpg If only Candians were actually that cool. |
| 14:58.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Mihau (~Mihau@76.164.170.2) |
| 14:58.36 | Fisker | hey Lopeppeppy |
| 15:00.54 | bluspacecow | oh hai Fisker |
| 15:01.10 | Fisker | oh hello there bluspacecow |
| 15:01.14 | Lopeppeppy | Dance Party! |
| 15:02.02 | Fisker | dances? |
| 15:02.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Unkle (~mconverse@50-0-113-123.dedicated.static.sonic.net) |
| 15:02.47 | TC-Work | No, no dancing. |
| 15:04.56 | bluspacecow | sssoooooooooooooooomeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee where over the rainbow |
| 15:04.59 | bluspacecow | weigh a pie |
| 15:05.55 | TC-Work | Please tell me you take drugs blu |
| 15:06.18 | bluspacecow | nope! |
| 15:06.21 | bluspacecow | jelly? |
| 15:06.55 | Fisker | wanna tagteam him Lopeppeppy? |
| 15:07.02 | Lopeppeppy | *snarf* |
| 15:07.07 | TC-Work | No, not 'jelly' |
| 15:07.34 | Fisker | pulls TC-Work out on the dance floor and throw him to Lopeppeppy |
| 15:09.59 | TC-Work | No |
| 15:10.20 | Fisker | already did it TC-Work |
| 15:10.22 | Fisker | you are now dancing |
| 15:10.26 | Fisker | whether you like it or not |
| 15:11.52 | bluspacecow | so mean! |
| 15:18.16 | TC-Work | tosses Fisker off of a tic tac. |
| 15:20.00 | Fisker | I wasn't on any tic tacs |
| 15:21.58 | rid_ | I'm sad Fisker |
| 15:22.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Unkle (~mconverse@50-0-113-123.dedicated.static.sonic.net) |
| 15:22.31 | Fisker | me too rid_ |
| 15:22.33 | Fisker | why are you sad? |
| 15:22.42 | rid_ | you never hey'd back |
| 15:23.27 | bluspacecow | http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/10388538951?page=2#35 |
| 15:23.40 | bluspacecow | i have a feeling a little bit of he said she said factors in there |
| 15:23.43 | Fisker | You usually don't hey back a heyback |
| 15:23.51 | bluspacecow | also |
| 15:23.53 | rid_ | oh |
| 15:23.54 | bluspacecow | http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/10388538951?page=2#36 |
| 15:23.57 | rid_ | okay, then |
| 15:24.01 | rid_ | not sad anymore! |
| 15:24.02 | bluspacecow | "Blizzard needs be supporting authors like this financially" |
| 15:24.07 | bluspacecow | i don't seem them doing that |
| 15:24.43 | Fisker | still sad rid_ |
| 15:24.44 | Fisker | sorry |
| 15:24.51 | bluspacecow | blizzard likes it's "we don't officially support add ons" stance |
| 15:25.35 | bluspacecow | also question : Can you find a list of the cVars in the FrameXML extract ? |
| 15:56.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Kodiack (~Colton@97-86-234-157.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) |
| 15:57.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Hazal (~Mikkel@0x5e910d43.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 15:58.16 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (~bluspacec@121.99.66.40) |
| 15:58.16 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 16:03.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Semlar (~chatzilla@142.196.185.93) |
| 16:05.51 | *** join/#wowuidev tardmrr (~tardmrr@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
| 16:05.51 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tardmrr] by ChanServ |
| 16:07.54 | *** part/#wowuidev alestane (~nevin@c-174-63-97-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 16:09.17 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (~bluspacec@121.99.66.40) |
| 16:09.17 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 16:09.35 | Semlar | herro |
| 16:12.22 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~nevin@c-174-63-97-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 16:12.22 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 16:12.35 | TC-Work | ~lart Semlar |
| 16:12.35 | purl | drops a truckload of VAXen on Semlar |
| 16:12.48 | Semlar | what's a vaxen |
| 16:13.16 | TC-Work | ~wiki VAX |
| 16:13.28 | Semlar | vacuum cleaner got it |
| 16:13.31 | TC-Work | Nope |
| 16:13.47 | TC-Work | Don't look at the redirect.... |
| 16:14.39 | Semlar | wiki wouldn't lie to me |
| 16:19.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@client0561.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 16:19.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 16:34.35 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@c83-250-204-217.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 16:34.36 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 16:45.19 | *** join/#wowuidev cogwheel (~Cogwheel@38.99.42.242) |
| 16:45.20 | *** join/#wowuidev cogwheel (~Cogwheel@WoWUIDev/WoWProgramming/morlando/cogwheel) |
| 16:45.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Dennls (~dennis@s55973038.adsl.online.nl) |
| 16:48.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Unkle (~mconverse@50-0-113-124.dedicated.static.sonic.net) |
| 16:50.38 | *** join/#wowuidev krixxkraxx (~galaris@91.120.23.132) |
| 16:51.43 | *** join/#wowuidev galaris (~galaris@91.120.23.150) |
| 17:02.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Robsato (~Robsato@541DEF37.cm-5-6d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) |
| 17:03.16 | Ackis | http://theoatmeal.com/comics/cats_actually_kill |
| 17:04.13 | *** join/#wowuidev galaris (~galaris@91.120.23.150) |
| 17:04.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Diao (Diao@ip68-5-200-162.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 17:10.32 | Ackis | why do people stop by my cubicle when I'm eating? or tehy call me? BLAH |
| 17:14.20 | TC-Work | Murphy. |
| 17:14.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Dridzt (~Miranda@athedsl-209220.home.otenet.gr) |
| 17:15.46 | Torhal | There you go, Ackis - start asking "What do you want, Murphy?" |
| 17:16.35 | Torhal | ...ESPECIALLY when talking to Ressy. |
| 17:16.42 | Unkle | Or answering every question with "There is no Dana, ONLY ZUUL!" |
| 17:16.48 | Torhal | Indeed. |
| 17:18.02 | Shirik | Cairenn |
| 17:18.03 | Shirik | http://theoatmeal.com/comics/cats_actually_kill |
| 17:18.05 | Shirik | oh wtf |
| 17:18.07 | Shirik | Ackis cheated |
| 17:18.19 | Shirik | oh I guess I got it from Ackis's facebook |
| 17:18.25 | Shirik | fine :( |
| 17:18.30 | Fisker | old :( |
| 17:18.36 | Torhal | ~failrik |
| 17:18.36 | purl | FAIL, Shirik, FAIL! |
| 17:18.47 | Fisker | ~debug_failrik() |
| 17:18.48 | Fisker | maybe |
| 17:18.50 | Fisker | :( |
| 17:18.53 | Fisker | I forgot it |
| 17:18.57 | Fisker | ~debug_failrik(); |
| 17:19.02 | Fisker | ~failrik() |
| 17:19.04 | Fisker | ~failrik(); |
| 17:19.07 | Fisker | noep |
| 17:19.08 | Fisker | i give up |
| 17:19.27 | Ackis | fail Shirik |
| 17:19.29 | Ackis | FAIL! |
| 17:20.11 | Fisker | Well it was old when you linked it too |
| 17:20.18 | Fisker | you both fail |
| 17:22.36 | TC-Work | The hell are you trying to do Fisker? |
| 17:24.02 | Fisker | Make you dance |
| 17:24.39 | *** join/#wowuidev galaris (~galaris@91.120.23.150) |
| 17:30.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Krapsy (~Kraps@ool-182d7861.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 17:34.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Dridzt (~Miranda@athedsl-209220.home.otenet.gr) |
| 17:38.22 | *** join/#wowuidev krixxkraxx (~galaris@91.120.23.132) |
| 17:41.36 | *** join/#wowuidev TGiFallen (~TGiFallen@69.17.183.175) |
| 17:50.55 | *** join/#wowuidev ShadniX (~shadnix@p5DDFD5D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:00.18 | jleclanche | nevcairiel: getting a warning about Mapster when I enter in combat with a pet trainer |
| 18:02.56 | *** join/#wowuidev MysticalOS (~Myst@h71.107.90.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) |
| 18:08.58 | *** join/#wowuidev MysticalOS (~Myst@h222.24.131.174.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) |
| 18:15.38 | *** join/#wowuidev mitchnull (~mitch@BC06720F.catv.pool.telekom.hu) |
| 18:30.38 | Cairenn | Shirik: hehehe, yeah, I've seen that one before, it's amusing |
| 18:32.13 | Lopeppeppy | Oh, the hilarity. NYS is banning "deer imports" until 2018. What are they going to do, set up border patrols and ID the four legs who wander in from VT? |
| 18:33.03 | Lopeppeppy | Go on back and get your green card, Bambi. |
| 18:35.51 | *** join/#wowuidev TGiFallen_ (~TGiFallen@69.17.183.175) |
| 18:36.04 | Cairenn | lol |
| 18:37.40 | Lopeppeppy | I'm sure they mean that I can't buy a deer as a pet in Virginia and bring it to New York to live. |
| 18:37.58 | Lopeppeppy | But I couldn't do that anyway, so I think this is just another nasty voter registration law in disguise! |
| 18:38.06 | Cairenn | heh |
| 18:41.20 | Fisker | see Lopeppeppy |
| 18:41.24 | Fisker | that's how Bambi was made |
| 18:41.28 | Fisker | cries |
| 18:41.39 | Lopeppeppy | By laws blocking liberal voting? |
| 18:41.40 | Fisker | (Just kidding, I only cried watching Lion King) |
| 18:42.28 | Lopeppeppy | Cairenn, I got my first snow this morning. Welcome to winter! |
| 18:42.35 | Cairenn | Ugh |
| 18:42.50 | Lopeppeppy | Just a sprinkle, nothing to stick. But still, fluffy flakes of doom. |
| 18:42.56 | Cairenn | *nod* |
| 18:42.58 | Fisker | you got your first "snow"? |
| 18:43.07 | Fisker | I see what's going on here |
| 18:43.20 | foxlit | So I finished the Timeless Isle daily while under the effects of Valor of the Ancients (hurray for bugs!). Ended up getting 50 valor, curse you valor cap. |
| 18:43.20 | Lopeppeppy | They banned deer because they import cocaine. |
| 18:43.25 | foxlit | s/daily/weekly/ |
| 18:43.36 | Fisker | ah yes Lopeppeppy |
| 18:43.38 | *** join/#wowuidev g0urra (~g0urra@unaffiliated/gourra) |
| 18:43.40 | Fisker | Drug Bambis |
| 18:44.24 | Lopeppeppy | More room than drug wolves, but the same stamina and distance coverage. |
| 18:44.43 | Fisker | Also more adorable and hence less likely to be shot |
| 18:44.50 | Fisker | though it did happen in that specific instance |
| 18:45.42 | Lopeppeppy | Deer are much more likely to be killed, statistically speaking, than wolves, in my area. I think wolves are even protected by law. Hmm. |
| 18:45.46 | Lopeppeppy | I should change dealers. |
| 18:47.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~RyanNL@adsl-98-66-37-234.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 18:47.45 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 18:58.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Monolit (~Strigoy@89.112.4.92.pppoe.eltel.net) |
| 19:12.48 | mikma | http://youtu.be/3KZeO5oc428 lololo |
| 19:13.08 | *** join/#wowuidev znf (~ibm86@188.173.175.180) |
| 19:36.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~Funkeh`@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 19:46.14 | Neffi_ | http://arstechnica.com/ <- anyone having a problem with the CSS not loading? |
| 19:46.29 | Neffi_ | I had this trouble on another site yesterday and I need to see if it's a coincidence |
| 19:46.49 | kd3 | yup. looks like they cached a busted css file or three |
| 19:46.58 | Neffi_ | Oh, good |
| 19:47.05 | Neffi_ | I thought Chrome was crapping out on me |
| 19:48.55 | Mihau | Neffi: Their problem: http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/themes/arstechnica/assets/css/ars.min.7f62849f6933a3e56ef2980e28886ed6.css |
| 19:49.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Jitta (Jitta@91-65-48-154-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 19:52.51 | Neffi | that's not a CSS file! |
| 19:56.01 | Neffi | lol http://i.imgur.com/ZghUJQX.jpg |
| 20:05.34 | Neffi | My English professors be damned, I stick by this http://i.imgur.com/g9vA41Y.jpg |
| 20:05.37 | *** join/#wowuidev TGiFallen (~TGiFallen@69.17.183.175) |
| 20:14.20 | *** join/#wowuidev MysticalOS (~Myst@h21.209.89.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) |
| 20:19.00 | TC-Work | Damnit, I was all ready to get a new GFX card and now there are price drops and new super powerful ATI cards. |
| 20:29.03 | nevcairiel | you complain about price drops? |
| 20:29.08 | nevcairiel | whateve you wanted to get, just cheaper! |
| 20:30.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Dotted (Dotted@x1-6-24-76-7d-9e-01-da.k920.webspeed.dk) |
| 20:34.25 | Unkle | I think he is worried that it means he should re-research his choices since newer, presumably better, gfx cards are now in his price range. |
| 20:37.06 | TC-Work | Well, that to a limited degree, but nevcairiel, I will need to wait for the prices to percolate. It's not like they are instantly going to drop. |
| 20:39.44 | Torhal | TIL video card prices operate on the same standard as coffee brewing. |
| 20:40.01 | TC-Work | I don't like them? |
| 20:40.20 | TC-Work | Or rather, it smells nice but tastes like shit. |
| 20:40.28 | TC-Work | I can see that. |
| 20:40.39 | Unkle | Different vendors will charge more for the process based on their name and target demographic. |
| 20:41.02 | Unkle | Starbucks will charge you more for coffee than 7-11 |
| 20:41.17 | Unkle | Yes, Torhal? |
| 20:41.34 | Torhal | Indeed. |
| 20:41.47 | Torhal | Never buy whiskey from Starbucks. |
| 20:42.15 | Unkle | Seriously |
| 20:44.13 | TC-Work | That does not change the fact that I have to wait for ~1 month for either a card at a lower price or a better card. |
| 20:46.49 | Primer | stop being so cheap |
| 20:51.47 | Ackis | we need more people to sign up for this thingy: bit.ly/wowuipokemon |
| 20:52.17 | Neffi | TC-Work: "tastes like shit" <- get better coffee beans |
| 20:52.36 | Neffi | run of the mill coffee does taste like shit. the fancy, gourmet shit tastes wonderful. |
| 20:52.41 | TC-Work | Neffi: I don't like the taste of coffee in any format. |
| 20:53.12 | Neffi | I don't like the taste of steak, but damn if my friend didn't make a tasty steak |
| 20:53.29 | TC-Work | Then you may not be tasting steak..... |
| 20:53.40 | Neffi | lol |
| 20:56.22 | Neffi | I still bet if I went to a coffee store in the city and picked up really good beans, and got some honey from a farm, I could make you a cup of coffee that would turn you into an avid drinker |
| 20:57.04 | TC-Work | If it tasted like honey and not coffee, then I would not really call that liking coffee. |
| 20:57.23 | TC-Work | It's a very grey border. |
| 20:57.24 | kd3 | alright, got hotel reminder/confirmation, just booked supershuttle. should be good to go |
| 20:57.25 | Neffi | Just a tinge of honey to curb the bitterness of caffeine-rich beans |
| 20:58.00 | Neffi | Great coffee tastes like it smells when it's brewing, if not better |
| 21:00.14 | Neffi | Yum. My 2nd glass of espresso. |
| 21:00.14 | Neffi | Sweet earthy goodness |
| 21:07.52 | Semlar | has it got dirt in it then? |
| 21:08.13 | Neffi | >_> |
| 21:08.17 | phelps | Semlar: wanna see ? |
| 21:08.31 | phelps | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ3ALTSe4vo |
| 21:08.44 | Neffi | Semlar: Make any progress in figuring out the source of the edge flicker and/or fixing it? |
| 21:08.46 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower|Work (~MentalPow@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 21:08.46 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower|Work] by ChanServ |
| 21:08.55 | Semlar | i took a nap |
| 21:08.59 | Semlar | does that count |
| 21:09.09 | Primer | I really want to take a nap |
| 21:09.15 | phelps | I've improved it a little more since that |
| 21:09.16 | Primer | but I'm at the office today |
| 21:09.25 | Semlar | so what's stopping you |
| 21:09.26 | Primer | if I was working from home, I'd totally take a nap |
| 21:09.50 | Primer | I can't sleep unless I have a cool, dark, and silent place |
| 21:10.02 | Semlar | do you live in a cave |
| 21:10.04 | Primer | Not to mention comfortable |
| 21:10.07 | Semlar | ah |
| 21:10.09 | Neffi | phelps: looks quite good |
| 21:10.13 | Primer | All I have here at the office is cool |
| 21:10.18 | Primer | I lack the other 3 |
| 21:10.39 | Primer | Semlar: Curtains and air conditioning? One does not need a cave for cool and dark |
| 21:10.40 | *** join/#wowuidev galaris (~galaris@31.46.245.120) |
| 21:11.27 | Semlar | could save on the power bills though |
| 21:12.24 | phelps | I still can't figure out where some of the units come back to life |
| 21:12.59 | Semlar | well, i had to blacklist guids to prevent them from getting retapped at one point but i don't think that should be necessary |
| 21:13.24 | phelps | that would fix the problem, I'd just like to know why its a problem |
| 21:13.33 | phelps | I think it might be combat log lag |
| 21:13.45 | phelps | /shrug |
| 21:13.51 | Semlar | if i had to guess |
| 21:14.01 | Semlar | unit health updates slower than the combat log |
| 21:14.25 | Semlar | so you might be setting its health back after it dies |
| 21:14.36 | phelps | I attempt to aquire HP every 100ms |
| 21:14.41 | Neffi | I would bet it's the other way around |
| 21:14.49 | Semlar | you'd be surprised neffi |
| 21:14.54 | Semlar | the combat log is actually faster |
| 21:15.11 | Neffi | What could be happening is that the unit dying, and the unit taking a heal/dmg gets fired on the same screen frame, so the order of the events becomes unpredictable |
| 21:15.27 | Neffi | AFAIK the best resolution you can guarantee for event accuracy is one screen frame |
| 21:16.00 | phelps | I'm not sure how taxing UnitHealth is |
| 21:16.01 | Neffi | All callbacks actually fire on the screen refresh, right before(?) OnUpdate |
| 21:16.35 | phelps | but my worse case would be # of units in combat with * 25 |
| 21:16.54 | Semlar | assuming the combat log is working all i had to do was update the health and max health once when i got a valid unit id and then only update the health based on damage taken |
| 21:16.55 | phelps | I'm sure there is a N (shit) for that |
| 21:17.02 | phelps | I didn't go to college |
| 21:17.27 | Semlar | and healing |
| 21:17.44 | Semlar | although that wouldn't catch things like evasion but you can detect that too |
| 21:18.23 | Semlar | alternatively just disable combat log damage tracking for the unit if you have a valid unit id |
| 21:18.33 | Semlar | that might be simplest |
| 21:18.47 | phelps | that changes too often though |
| 21:22.36 | phelps | integer overflow attempting to store inf |
| 21:22.38 | phelps | :( |
| 21:22.42 | phelps | it won't go away |
| 21:24.56 | Arrowmaster | i found a royal convoy in AC4, it destroyed my boat |
| 21:24.56 | Semlar | are you attempting to store a guid as a number |
| 21:25.45 | Semlar | it sunk your battleship? |
| 21:25.58 | phelps | Semlar: nah, this is on string.format |
| 21:25.58 | phelps | lol |
| 21:26.17 | phelps | local deaht_in = string.format("%.2d:%.2d", R/60, R%60) |
| 21:26.22 | Semlar | what's R |
| 21:26.28 | phelps | seconds until it dies |
| 21:26.35 | phelps | always 1 or > |
| 21:26.50 | Semlar | can it be 0 |
| 21:27.03 | phelps | obv. not, 0/60 would break |
| 21:27.19 | phelps | I make sure its not 0 |
| 21:27.37 | phelps | if R < 1 then R = 1 end |
| 21:28.42 | Neffi | Arrowmaster: How do you like the game? |
| 21:28.50 | Semlar | i wager your estimated time to death is inf |
| 21:28.51 | foxlit | phelps: back to school with you. |
| 21:29.01 | phelps | foxlit: I'm not a doctor, ok |
| 21:29.11 | foxlit | you're butchering math over there |
| 21:29.17 | foxlit | numbers are screaming out in terrible agony |
| 21:29.20 | phelps | you wanna see all of it |
| 21:29.20 | foxlit | this cannot continue. |
| 21:29.30 | phelps | ylyl |
| 21:29.30 | Neffi | phelps: When you update the health, just do: if R <= 0 then --[[dead]] end |
| 21:29.36 | Neffi | err, seconds |
| 21:31.35 | phelps | still breaks Neffi |
| 21:31.48 | Semlar | your number is too big |
| 21:31.55 | Semlar | however it is you're getting it |
| 21:31.56 | phelps | IMPOSSIBLE |
| 21:32.11 | Semlar | it's quite easy for estimated time to death to be extremely high |
| 21:32.17 | phelps | lol |
| 21:32.40 | phelps | well |
| 21:32.46 | Neffi | If your estimates for time until death are breaking when it drops low, then you need to figure out why |
| 21:33.00 | phelps | nah, its when its high |
| 21:33.07 | phelps | as soon as I get some damage on it it stops |
| 21:33.39 | kullervo | Is there a list of the ToS/ToU changes? |
| 21:33.43 | Semlar | right because you have no damage on it and any amount of time |
| 21:34.15 | Neffi | Oh, you're factoring DPS against its health? |
| 21:34.23 | phelps | yeah |
| 21:34.46 | phelps | is inf a type |
| 21:34.50 | phelps | if R == inf |
| 21:34.53 | phelps | -- STFU |
| 21:34.54 | phelps | end |
| 21:34.57 | Neffi | your system should place it at the top of the list when no damage is happening to it, with no number showing. Don't start trackign time until death until DPS shows up. |
| 21:35.07 | Semlar | that is probably not a great way to solve this |
| 21:35.11 | Neffi | The whole system for tracking its time shouldn't kick in until ithas numbers to work with |
| 21:35.23 | phelps | Neffi: thats smart |
| 21:35.30 | Neffi | Also I hope you're tracking heals per second to get an "adjusted DPS" |
| 21:35.34 | Neffi | Otherwise the whole collapses |
| 21:35.50 | phelps | not yet |
| 21:36.13 | Neffi | If HPS > DPS, then it should also be placed at the top of the list, with no number showing, but probably some special text colored different to indicate substandard DPS |
| 21:36.29 | Neffi | This whole system isn't going to be easy to get perfect |
| 21:36.42 | Neffi | Convince somebody who's better at math/statistics than me to help |
| 21:37.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~Kraps@unaffiliated/kraps) |
| 21:37.18 | Semlar | dinner time |
| 21:37.56 | phelps | for someone bad at math, I sure do pick some of the worst projects |
| 21:38.21 | Neffi | phelps: Define "inf". math.huge? Anyway, you should never have an inf. Design that system so that if the relevant data isn't available, it's not doing anything at all |
| 21:38.29 | Neffi | It should wait for the data to appear to even begin |
| 21:39.26 | Neffi | Because otherwise not only are you approaching it incorrectly -- an ongiong system like this shouldn't have a special case to determine if it's doing nothing at all -- but you're also wasting CPU cycles by having a system attempting to calculate nothing at all |
| 21:39.52 | Neffi | Routines that run exclusively in combat should be the most optimized |
| 21:40.26 | kullervo | does this mean using oQueue is bannable? |
| 21:40.28 | kullervo | http://kullervo.dy.fi/pub/drop/pic/2013-10-30_23-40-01.png |
| 21:40.49 | phelps | I'd say so |
| 21:40.52 | Neffi | If I had a client installed and an active account, I might try to design this sort of thing myself for fun. But it'd be almost impossible to drycode a system like this. |
| 21:41.08 | foxlit | Neffi: Routines that run exclusively in combat should be the most optimized << you're adorable. |
| 21:41.15 | phelps | Neffi: ehh |
| 21:41.24 | phelps | I only do the math if I have the units current and max HP |
| 21:41.38 | phelps | I only need to check the damage to the unit per second |
| 21:41.45 | Neffi | foxlit: Argue against that sentiment or not at all |
| 21:42.01 | Neffi | kullervo: On the face it appears so but I would wait for a blue response to be sure |
| 21:42.04 | foxlit | this level of optimisation is only useful for useless epeen-waving comments. |
| 21:42.21 | Neffi | "This level"? I haven't defined a level |
| 21:42.44 | phelps | well I'm pretty sure this isn't as optimized as possible |
| 21:42.46 | Neffi | kullervo: They may very well be covering their bases, and not intending to target things like oQueue in particular |
| 21:43.08 | kullervo | Neffi: I just read through the new ToS/TOU/TWPN and found that one, can't remember whether it was there before |
| 21:43.11 | phelps | it does target oQueue directly though |
| 21:43.12 | foxlit | the kind of level where you worry about inf values and cpu cycles, Neffi |
| 21:43.25 | Neffi | Being "as optimized as possible" is unnecessary. Nobody's asking you to shave off individual cycles. But your overall algorithm flow should be approaching it from an efficient standpoint. |
| 21:43.34 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 21:43.36 | phelps | "redirecting the communication protocols" |
| 21:43.44 | phelps | that pretty much targets oQ |
| 21:43.52 | foxlit | no, it doesn't. |
| 21:43.56 | Neffi | Eg, you shouldn't be running CPU-heavy subsystems when they're not even necessary |
| 21:44.01 | phelps | thats exactly how oQ works though |
| 21:44.09 | foxlit | It targets people writing custom servers, or replacing WoW chat with IRC. |
| 21:44.26 | phelps | ohh that would be cool :p |
| 21:44.28 | Torhal | Hence "protocols" |
| 21:44.31 | phelps | IRC in WoW |
| 21:44.37 | Neffi | We're wondering about the matchmaking clause. Maybe they really just want to snuff out any attempts at a WoW dating service? |
| 21:44.47 | phelps | HAHA |
| 21:44.49 | foxlit | think arena competitions |
| 21:44.59 | phelps | I like dating service better |
| 21:45.00 | Neffi | That's actually a good point |
| 21:45.28 | Neffi | Win-trading used to be a massive problem. It might still be. They could be adding the clause to make it unquestionable that this is against the ToU, end of story |
| 21:45.49 | foxlit | heh, battle on the high seas |
| 21:45.58 | foxlit | I never never never never ever have seen this scenario before. |
| 21:46.48 | kullervo | I checked the US WoW forums, found that oQueue is no longer obtainable from Curse so I think this change is new and directly targets that addon |
| 21:47.01 | Neffi | foxlit: Also, I was arguing against even considering the existence of inf. Where does your argument stand? O.o |
| 21:47.10 | phelps | http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/oqueue |
| 21:47.12 | phelps | sure enough |
| 21:48.03 | Neffi | kullervo: Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe they were hasty in pulling oQueue because they were afraid it MIGHT apply. |
| 21:48.18 | Torhal | kullervo: I placed oQueue in moderation because it solicits donations in-game, which is directly against Blizzard's AddOn policy. |
| 21:48.33 | phelps | ah |
| 21:48.39 | Torhal | It SAYS "Free Beer" but the URL is PayPal |
| 21:48.40 | Neffi | I don't see oQueue as inherently problematic to the spirit of the game. Arena matches on the underhand could be exploited if you designed an addon that increased the statistics of two particular teams facing each other more often. |
| 21:48.50 | Neffi | So like I said, wait for a blue post on the intent of the clause |
| 21:48.58 | kullervo | Torhal: Oh, yeah that. I didn't give the button a second thought at the time when I noticed it. |
| 21:49.08 | phelps | I've always thought it might cause issue with the amount of traffic from it |
| 21:49.23 | Torhal | Apparently Tiny is taking this as some vendetta since he got into a tiff with someone from MMO-Champion |
| 21:49.47 | Torhal | ...I have nothing to do with MMO-Champion. |
| 21:50.10 | Neffi | Did you let him know the real reason? |
| 21:50.10 | Alram | liar you are in the irc channel |
| 21:50.30 | Torhal | Alram: I'm not affiliated. I don't even think I have a login there. |
| 21:50.31 | kullervo | phelps: the traffic isn't really *that* high |
| 21:50.50 | Alram | you are a friend of the irc channel Torhal that is all what matters to me <3 |
| 21:51.09 | Torhal | You're frightening the children again, Alram. |
| 21:51.15 | Neffi | Tell him to post it on WoWI if he thinks it's something sinister. When Cairenn removes it, maybe he'll see the reason. |
| 21:51.17 | Alram | Fisker is already sleeping |
| 21:53.53 | Neffi | Damn. My scrollback on Quassel is large enough to cover everything since I installed it. Resizing the window has become a laggy mess. |
| 21:54.00 | Neffi | Isn't QT HW acclerated? |
| 21:54.07 | Mr_Rabies | i really hope 6.0 has some oqueue-style functionality |
| 21:54.37 | Mr_Rabies | i think the game could really use features that are sort of like preformed LFR-style stuff with a rating system, etc |
| 21:54.49 | Mr_Rabies | but not as janky as OQ |
| 21:55.58 | Mr_Rabies | openraid is pretty nice but something similar ingame would be the bee's knees, that didn't require using the realID system as it currently exists (adding friends, etc) |
| 21:56.02 | foxlit | Neffi: foxlit: Also, I was arguing against even considering the existence of inf. Where does your argument stand? O.o << inf's a natural consequence of division by zero. If "inf should never happen", you're basically requiring sanitization logic everywhere. |
| 21:56.15 | foxlit | Mr_Rabies: don't connected realms fix that to some extent? |
| 21:56.20 | Neffi | Read more into it |
| 21:56.34 | Mr_Rabies | possibly, foxlit |
| 21:56.38 | Mr_Rabies | we'll have to see how it pans out |
| 21:56.45 | Mr_Rabies | the rating system is really one of the key components, though |
| 21:56.47 | foxlit | You just need enough people in the pool that you can directly communicate with. |
| 21:57.02 | phelps | Neffi: only doing the estimate once I've seen damage on the unit fixed it |
| 21:57.05 | phelps | no more inf |
| 21:57.18 | Mr_Rabies | and the "other raids" tool is hidden and kinda janky now |
| 21:57.21 | Neffi | His system is comparing DPS to the mob's health. The system is making that comparison even if no damage has been taken by the unit yet, thus DPS == 0. I was saying his system should not even start until the first damage has been caused, thus preventing an inf from ever occuring, and making it more efficient to boot. |
| 21:57.35 | Neffi | phelps: Good ;) |
| 21:57.39 | foxlit | What if you observed 0 damage being dealt to the unit? |
| 21:57.53 | foxlit | As in a real, attack that happened but dealt zero damage. |
| 21:57.55 | Mr_Rabies | there's not really an ingame system for organizing stuff ahead of time yet on a large scale like openraid has |
| 21:58.03 | phelps | it only starts if there was damage |
| 21:58.03 | Mr_Rabies | other than guild events, etc |
| 21:58.15 | Neffi | I doubt that would ever occur. Moreover, if you observe 0 damage occuring, you could treat it as if you haven't seen any damage yet, and not start the system. |
| 21:58.38 | foxlit | But that's just moving the special case from handling inf to handling 0. |
| 21:58.42 | phelps | I moved the line that added the units timestamp from the tagUnit function to the damageUnit function |
| 21:58.44 | phelps | and it fixed it |
| 21:58.49 | Neffi | phelps: Might want to modify the clause that starts the system to also see if the incoming damage triggering it == 0, and ignore in that case |
| 21:58.59 | phelps | it does |
| 21:59.22 | Neffi | foxlit: But you're moving the clause from inside the system's logic to outside it. |
| 21:59.41 | Neffi | "Does the system need to be trackign anythign yet?" to "why isn't it tracking?" |
| 21:59.58 | Primer | Is this YADPSMETER? |
| 22:00.20 | foxlit | [what if it's being healed at the same rate as it is being damaged?] |
| 22:00.21 | Primer | I'd scroll back, but there's so much to scroll through |
| 22:00.23 | phelps | nope |
| 22:00.27 | foxlit | [what if it's being healed faster than it is being damaged?] |
| 22:00.44 | phelps | just a "unit tracker" |
| 22:01.02 | phelps | tracking all units in combat and estimating their time to death using the DPS on that unit |
| 22:01.04 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@c83-250-204-217.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 22:01.04 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 22:01.04 | kullervo | foxlit: you can't deal zero damage with an attack |
| 22:01.14 | phelps | you can |
| 22:01.24 | phelps | you can hit and deal damage and it be absorbed |
| 22:01.25 | kullervo | it's either immune or a full absorb which still shows a number |
| 22:01.26 | Primer | That was always one of my gripes with "DPS" for a boss encounter. I never understood how someone could "out DPS" another toon that did more damage for the encounter |
| 22:02.00 | phelps | hahaha |
| 22:02.08 | Primer | Which was why I never linked DPS, but always damage done, since the time span for all toons in question was the same, and hence true "damage per second" |
| 22:02.22 | phelps | we all started at the same time.. we all ended at the same time.. I did more damage, but you did more damage per second ? |
| 22:02.23 | kullervo | Primer: active DPS vs effective DPS |
| 22:02.23 | phelps | aight aight |
| 22:02.47 | phelps | I always like to link recounts "Activity" meter |
| 22:02.53 | phelps | trololol |
| 22:03.02 | Primer | kullervo: I would argue that "active DPS" is a bullshit meter |
| 22:03.17 | kullervo | Primer: as much as "active healing" is |
| 22:03.21 | kullervo | see: warriors and 40m HPS |
| 22:03.25 | Primer | not the same |
| 22:04.03 | Primer | healing isn't constant, whereas DPS usually is. I suppose it'd vary on the encounter as far as DPS goes |
| 22:04.30 | kullervo | there may be moving around which may be especially hurtful for certain casters and melee if they must move out of range |
| 22:05.24 | foxlit | I'm somewhat annoyed they haven't patched tanking Garrosh at his throne in LFR. |
| 22:05.29 | phelps | Neffi: I was able to remove the check on R because I know it will always be > 0 |
| 22:05.37 | phelps | since we only ever have done damage to it |
| 22:05.40 | Primer | kullervo: in which case I'd just say "tough shit" |
| 22:05.44 | foxlit | "Ignore all the mechanics, bash his face in" is a very soul-crushing way to do that fight :( |
| 22:06.00 | TC-Work | I hope your happy zenzelezz, someone sent me http://www.buzzfeed.com/awesomer/puns-that-are-too-clever-for-their-own-good |
| 22:06.17 | Primer | as there will always be fights that are more caster friendly, and others that are more melee friendly |
| 22:06.29 | zenzelezz | TC-Work: =D |
| 22:06.45 | phelps | foxlit: did it in LFR as soon as it was up, 10 stacks of determination is also pretty soul-crushing |
| 22:06.45 | Primer | and all fights are mage friendly :) |
| 22:07.00 | Primer | because blizz just loves mages |
| 22:07.01 | TC-Work | you're* |
| 22:07.14 | kd3 | lfr the first few weeks is an exercise in frustration |
| 22:07.25 | Neffi | phelps: You're eventually gonna have to redesign that clause |
| 22:07.40 | Neffi | When you start trackign heals vs damage, you will end up with both zeros and negatives |
| 22:08.08 | phelps | if the DPS is a negative number, I'll add a + sign and then abs the math |
| 22:08.09 | Neffi | You might have to approach it from another angle, or split the logic into 3 separate possibilities -> he's going down, he's going up, he's not moving |
| 22:08.17 | phelps | or I think that would work anyways |
| 22:08.27 | Neffi | Except if the DPS is a negative number, it needs to be treated differently |
| 22:08.33 | Neffi | Since his time to death will increase, not decrease |
| 22:08.40 | foxlit | I vote we add a special Loot Eligibility meter to LFR fights, that starts out full, and depletes for every mechanics violation that you personally are responsible for. |
| 22:08.54 | phelps | foxlit: ^^ that so much |
| 22:09.13 | phelps | doing 1m DPS as a bear tank was fun though |
| 22:09.30 | phelps | nothing like 300k AP |
| 22:09.47 | phelps | (in 525 gear) |
| 22:10.47 | phelps | Neffi: I'm gonna have to test this now :| |
| 22:10.53 | phelps | caus you got me all confused |
| 22:11.34 | Neffi | You're gonna hit other issues down the road |
| 22:11.59 | Neffi | Consider weird boss mechanics. Say you have a boss that you burn down to 50% then he becomes immune for X seconds, or he heals to full, and then you can continue damaging him |
| 22:12.24 | Neffi | The effective "adjusted DPS" (DPS/HPS combined) won't reflect the actual rate that he's losing health |
| 22:12.36 | Neffi | You'll need something more complicated than a simple average |
| 22:12.56 | Neffi | Maybe a weighted/moving average |
| 22:13.16 | Neffi | Or just average against a given time window |
| 22:13.53 | Neffi | Maybe have a "simple code path" that does a time window average as a fallback, and a series of custom code paths or clauses that account for known boss mechanics |
| 22:15.46 | TC-Work | Or he can throw up his hands and say "Fuck this shit" and go punch a baby. |
| 22:16.51 | Neffi | Then he wouldn't have learned anything new and become a better programmer |
| 22:17.17 | TGiFallen | is there an event that gets called when the UI is done loading? |
| 22:17.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Semlar-Laptop (~Semlar@142.196.185.93) |
| 22:17.49 | Neffi | Done loading is ambiguous |
| 22:18.05 | Neffi | Do you mean when the FrameXML is done loading? |
| 22:18.45 | Neffi | ADDON_LOADED happens when your addon's code is fully done loading, all XML frames have been built, and your saved variables are available |
| 22:19.05 | Neffi | VARIABLES_LOADED (should) occur after all non-load-on-demand addons have finished this step |
| 22:19.19 | Neffi | All FrameXML is already loaded before any addon even gets loaded |
| 22:19.24 | Neffi | (Unless it's LOD |
| 22:20.02 | TGiFallen | FrameXML is all the default ui? |
| 22:20.12 | kd3 | or you could point at... http://wowpedia.org/AddOn_loading_process |
| 22:20.26 | Neffi | TGiFallen: yess |
| 22:22.18 | TGiFallen | I'm trying to move some frames created by addons |
| 22:22.27 | TGiFallen | so yeah i guess I'll use addon_loaded, thanks neffi |
| 22:37.14 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-50-166-85-212.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 22:54.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Antiarc (~Instantbi@ip68-109-131-126.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 22:55.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (~Tuller@c-76-21-187-154.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 22:55.17 | Mr_Rabies | what mount addon does everyone use nowadays? seems like with 5.4.1 GupPet has given up the ghost :( |
| 22:57.45 | Neffi | macros ;) |
| 22:58.30 | TGiFallen | I use gogomount |
| 22:59.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Dotted (Dotted@x1-6-24-76-7d-9e-01-da.k920.webspeed.dk) |
| 22:59.47 | Mr_Rabies | Neffi, 255 characters limits that pretty hard :( |
| 23:00.03 | Neffi | Use a better macro UI |
| 23:00.12 | Mr_Rabies | isn't it hardlimited by wow itself? |
| 23:00.25 | Neffi | The hard limit is 1024 characters, but it might even be higher now |
| 23:00.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (~Tuller@c-76-21-187-154.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 23:00.40 | Mr_Rabies | why the heck do they limit it to 255 then O_o |
| 23:00.46 | Neffi | 256 is the limit of what the server will store for you. actionbuttons with a macro type will execute more. |
| 23:01.41 | Mr_Rabies | gogomount doesn't seem to have any kind of configuration ui, TGiFallen :| |
| 23:02.07 | Neffi | I'm guessing they don't want to quadruple macro storage on the server, and they don't want to give you more space if you disable macro sync, because it makes the artifiicial limitation more apparent |
| 23:03.06 | Mr_Rabies | so it'll be a total nightmare when you rename your char and/or when connected realms happen, then, right? |
| 23:03.33 | Neffi | I guess? I don't see what you're getting at |
| 23:03.41 | Neffi | I imagine settings sync works out rename issues |
| 23:03.56 | Neffi | AFAIK saved variables don't |
| 23:04.02 | TGiFallen | gogomount has a config ui |
| 23:04.06 | TGiFallen | in the interface screen |
| 23:04.41 | Mr_Rabies | does it? the screenshots and description make it seem like you have to use slash commands |
| 23:05.28 | sintAcks | why is curse client spiking 50% CPU usage ... |
| 23:05.43 | Mr_Rabies | stealin' ur megahurtz |
| 23:07.01 | Sintacks | WHAT THE FUCK |
| 23:07.08 | Sintacks | curseclient is using 3.5GB of ram |
| 23:07.30 | Mr_Rabies | um |
| 23:07.49 | Neffi | botnet |
| 23:07.52 | Mr_Rabies | mine is using 4MB |
| 23:08.27 | *** join/#wowuidev disc- (disc@fain.no) |
| 23:10.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Ressy (~Ressy@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ARL/Ressy) |
| 23:11.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Sintacks (~Syntax@cdm-75-109-239-234.asbnva.dh.suddenlink.net) |
| 23:12.38 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower|Work (~MentalPow@ip-64-134-187-24.public.wayport.net) |
| 23:12.45 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower|Work (~MentalPow@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 23:12.45 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower|Work] by ChanServ |
| 23:19.43 | kullervo | GG the talent UI gets corrupted by just about every addon ever |
| 23:20.27 | foxlit | worksforme. |
| 23:20.55 | kullervo | moveanything, dominos producing errors |
| 23:21.33 | foxlit | file a bug against them. |
| 23:21.37 | kd3 | dominos got updated already |
| 23:21.42 | kd3 | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info9085-Dominos.html#changelog |
| 23:21.47 | kullervo | is it on Curse? |
| 23:22.04 | kd3 | ...maybe? I generally check wowi first |
| 23:22.19 | Gnarfoz | the "fix" is to hide the error popup. ;P |
| 23:22.33 | kullervo | kd3: I have curse premium, autoupdates gg |
| 23:22.35 | kullervo | Gnarfoz: lol |
| 23:23.22 | Gnarfoz | there's no solution that works except not interacting with stuff that touches/gets in the code path of this stupid function blizzard protected |
| 23:23.37 | Mr_Rabies | hmmm |
| 23:23.48 | Mr_Rabies | the druid settings don't seem to work in gogomount, interesting |
| 23:24.16 | Gnarfoz | kd3, kullervo: I'm serious btw https://github.com/tullamods/Dominos/commit/be64bb7356d125dfb39817a87de426c07b8a12cd#diff-19d2675d006433bdd2afab8cd20cc658R347 =p |
| 23:24.27 | kullervo | I also like the official reason why the taltnt UI gets corrupted so esaily |
| 23:24.35 | kullervo | "we don't want people to feel compelled to respec all the time" |
| 23:24.40 | Gnarfoz | the link in the comments is what you want to read and add your voice to, btw, if you've got an US account: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/10388639018 |
| 23:24.56 | foxlit | http://pastebin.com/kvMVqGzC << well, isn't there egg on /their/ face? |
| 23:25.28 | Ressy | lmao |
| 23:25.29 | Ressy | oh geez |
| 23:25.30 | Gnarfoz | kullervo: yeah, that was one of GC's tweets from the last time everything was taint-o-rama until blizzard fixed it, right? |
| 23:26.25 | kullervo | blue post somewhere regardless |
| 23:26.29 | kullervo | can't remember also tanking a raid |
| 23:26.42 | foxlit | I blame everyone involved. |
| 23:26.54 | Gnarfoz | I blame everyone |
| 23:26.57 | kd3 | you get blame! and you get blame! and you get blame! everyone gets some blame! |
| 23:27.08 | Gnarfoz | sadly, niling out the function is not a 100% solution, either (see forum thread :\) |
| 23:27.24 | foxlit | setfenv mostly works, unless you need a secure path. Does anything need a secure path? |
| 23:27.33 | foxlit | Game designers can't be arsed to find a non-idiotic solution to controlling glyph/talent swaps. |
| 23:27.42 | foxlit | UI team can't code their way out of a paper box. |
| 23:28.03 | Gnarfoz | foxlit: raid frames do? read the thread |
| 23:28.03 | foxlit | Addon developers are crap at locating and documenting taint issues. |
| 23:28.14 | foxlit | General public is ignorant of everything ever invented. |
| 23:28.24 | Gnarfoz | wheels? AMAZING NEW STUFF |
| 23:29.44 | Gnarfoz | also, what's there to solve regarding glyph/talent changes that wouldn't be covered by a simple "can't do that in combat or while spell/talent is on cooldown, doofus" check, like in so many other places where it works just fine? |
| 23:30.13 | foxlit | Gnarfoz: I don't know, I'm not a game designer. |
| 23:30.33 | foxlit | Maybe they don't want you to have an addon that automatically respecs you into the single pre-solved spec for each boss. |
| 23:30.57 | Mr_Rabies | that seems to be their intent but this is an insane way to do it |
| 23:31.03 | Gnarfoz | still coverable with the "needs a button press" kind of protection (which is already in place) |
| 23:31.04 | Ressy | Dear GC: Stop being lazy/cheap and get someone who knows wtf they're doing, fixing this shit. |
| 23:31.27 | Neffi | lol wat http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/10/dell-locates-source-of-cat-pee-smell-in-laptops-after-four-months/ |
| 23:31.30 | Mr_Rabies | that's like putting a lava moat in because you're tired of dealing with door-to-door salesmen |
| 23:31.35 | foxlit | Gnarfoz: "click this button to change to optical spec" is likely unacceptable |
| 23:31.36 | MysticalOS | they completely ignored problem when i sent it up |
| 23:31.42 | Neffi | Dear Ressy: Ghostcrawler is not the president of Blizzard |
| 23:31.55 | Mr_Rabies | Neffi: for some reason, refurbed dell laptops smell like chili |
| 23:31.58 | Gnarfoz | foxlit: so? my point: you seemed to imply they're doing something special to the talent frame that doesn't exist elsewhere in the UI and hence it breaks a lot |
| 23:31.59 | Mr_Rabies | or curry |
| 23:32.00 | foxlit | As for raid frames in that frame, dunno |
| 23:32.02 | Neffi | He takes blame for every damn thing in the game |
| 23:32.12 | foxlit | It seems like there's some unspecified issue with someone's addon modifying something somewhere. |
| 23:32.15 | Mr_Rabies | thanks, bobby kotick |
| 23:32.20 | Mr_Rabies | :v |
| 23:32.25 | MysticalOS | interesting to just hack hide staticpopup from ADDON_ACTION_FORBIDDEN events. I was curious if you can just unregister ADDON_ACTION_FORBIDDEN all together |
| 23:32.26 | Ressy | Neffi: As a game dev however, you'd think he'd be able to reassign someone temporarily to fix something. |
| 23:32.26 | foxlit | Who's to say they can't modify it in a way that doesn't break things? :) |
| 23:32.30 | Gnarfoz | whereas actually, they just fuck us over and protect/mark as secure a function that gets called (in a roundabout way) by several _OnShow's |
| 23:32.46 | MysticalOS | blizz needs to rearrange their UI team, they been breaking shit all expansion |
| 23:32.53 | Neffi | Ressy: I kind of doubt it. He doesn't deal with the technical side of the game. It's somebody else's job to figure out who does what in the code. |
| 23:32.59 | Neffi | He's a content designer, not an engineer |
| 23:33.18 | MysticalOS | surprised they didn't do a _ = C_StorePublic.IsDisabledByParentalControls then call _ in the function while they were at it |
| 23:33.24 | Mr_Rabies | i can actually feel the lack of slouken in the UI now |
| 23:33.26 | Mr_Rabies | it's weird |
| 23:33.31 | Neffi | Now if you see a boss mechanic out of place, blame GC |
| 23:33.40 | Mr_Rabies | there's a distinct difference in how things are documented, act, etc, since he left |
| 23:33.43 | Gnarfoz | MysticalOS: I could live with that, since people that use global _ need to diaf :D |
| 23:33.47 | foxlit | [you know, every time someone brings up _, I face palm. Because the last 17 times it came up, it was utterly irrelevant.] |
| 23:33.54 | Mr_Rabies | i've got a major tainting issue i've had since late cata that i still can't pinpoint |
| 23:34.01 | foxlit | ["oh noes blizzard is leaking a global _! Doom! Doom! FIX IT NOW!"] |
| 23:34.20 | Gnarfoz | it's relevant because morons use it insecurely |
| 23:34.28 | foxlit | no, it's not. |
| 23:34.35 | foxlit | It's only ever a problem if they actually access it before they assign it |
| 23:34.42 | foxlit | That hasn't happened since that one time. |
| 23:34.45 | MysticalOS | it only affected bad mods |
| 23:35.04 | Neffi | Paid programmers shouldn't be responsible for using their paid programming time to make it impossible for stupid unpaid people to break things |
| 23:35.07 | foxlit | Everyone has been screaming bloody murder every time _ came up ever since. It's so much pointless noise. |
| 23:35.10 | Neffi | Blame stupid unpaid people |
| 23:35.56 | Neffi | It's crazy how easy the fix is. Even if you're careless and end up using a global _ somehow, just make it an upvalue. |
| 23:36.35 | Gnarfoz | he's saying that's not even a problem |
| 23:37.03 | foxlit | Look, the convention is that _ is a variable whose value you don't actually care about, used to pad out argument lists. |
| 23:37.17 | Gnarfoz | thus: a variable like any other |
| 23:37.54 | foxlit | Nobody sane should actually ever /read/ its value -- so it should not ever matter if it's tainted, leaked, violated, or anything else. |
| 23:38.15 | Gnarfoz | but is that actually how the taint system works |
| 23:38.19 | Gnarfoz | nobody knows, since it's not public |
| 23:38.20 | Gnarfoz | \o/ |
| 23:38.51 | Gnarfoz | (I agree, it *shouldn't* matter) |
| 23:39.01 | Gnarfoz | but hey, sanity is optional. |
| 23:39.06 | Neffi | I'm gonna pipe in and say it should |
| 23:39.09 | foxlit | It's testable enough to determine whether this is or isn't a problem. It isn't. |
| 23:39.25 | Neffi | You have no say over what blizzard's code should look like. You work with the limitations of it. |
| 23:39.35 | Gnarfoz | that's nice |
| 23:40.01 | Neffi | If they choose to use _ for anything, you need to know not to use it |
| 23:40.34 | MysticalOS | the taint system works like this. Blizzard makes stupid functions protected, then puts them in things that are used by like 27 different other things. |
| 23:40.44 | Gnarfoz | so, back to the current (and not non-existent) problem: if you think it's not something only Blizzard can fix, foxlit, do contribute to the thread so authors can fix this before Blizzard gets around to it (which, judging from history, is either never or in 6.0...) |
| 23:40.55 | foxlit | Gnarfoz: I cannot post on the US forums. |
| 23:40.56 | Semlar | and if they provide an api to use for your addon options you need to know not to use it because it taints everything |
| 23:41.12 | Gnarfoz | foxlit: neither can I, but maybe someone is kind enough to post something for you |
| 23:41.13 | Semlar | i mean that's just common sense |
| 23:41.19 | foxlit | And I'm sick of playing telephone with taint issues. |
| 23:41.52 | Gnarfoz | well, then we get to call it "blizzard is stupid" and ignore you calling it something else ;P |
| 23:42.23 | foxlit | [I even mailed ui@blizzard.com, which did absolutely nothing useful] |
| 23:42.35 | Gnarfoz | /sadface |
| 23:42.39 | Gnarfoz | sigh |
| 23:42.43 | foxlit | So screw it, if someone wants my actual input on why things are broken and how to fix them, they can find me. |
| 23:43.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (~quassel@54.210.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 23:43.40 | MysticalOS | I IMed the thread to the CMs, as well as described issue and fix to 4 different lead devs. They've heard it. whether or not they care/are going to fix it is out of our hands. :\ |
| 23:45.55 | foxlit | Beyond that, I my plan is to write an addon-side implementation of UIDropDownMenu and InterfaceOptionsFrame for 6.0 |
| 23:46.01 | MysticalOS | My solution, UiParent:UnregisterEvent("ADDON_ACTION_FORBIDDEN"). lol |
| 23:46.28 | foxlit | Because those are the only two pieces of framexml I still interact with. |
| 23:46.43 | Gnarfoz | foxlit: the former, in particular, is probably going to be popular :D |
| 23:47.00 | MysticalOS | isn't there already a uidropdown lib? |
| 23:47.13 | foxlit | (well, except for the relative sanity that is secure templates/restricted env code. Hurray for Iriel, even if I can't pass restricted tables around.) |
| 23:47.13 | MysticalOS | that like no one switched to/used, thus making it actually useless in the global problem |
| 23:47.17 | Gnarfoz | seeing how often people still ask about a successor to libdewdrop |
| 23:48.44 | Tuller | shudders :P |
| 23:49.27 | foxlit | [UIDD should really handle scrolling for you] |
| 23:49.57 | MysticalOS | lol i'm actually curious if UiParent:UnregisterEvent("ADDON_ACTION_FORBIDDEN") would work instead of secure hooking staticpopup. i'm gonna try that. i was just being smartass, but thinking about it. maybe? |
| 23:50.09 | foxlit | sure. |
| 23:50.20 | Semlar | i'm more interested in how setfenv avoids taint |
| 23:50.21 | foxlit | As long as you don't care about the code that follows the UMB call. |
| 23:50.42 | MysticalOS | it doesn't, not completely |
| 23:50.56 | foxlit | not at all if things work properly, Semlar. It merely avoids the error(). |
| 23:51.05 | Semlar | ah |
| 23:51.16 | MysticalOS | it's just a great fix for maps, not much else |
| 23:51.20 | Semlar | i was confused at how that was actually working |
| 23:52.21 | foxlit | instead of the real UMB, you can trick a function that accesses it via a global to call a function of your choice. |
| 23:52.51 | Semlar | what's to stop you from just sandboxing everything |
| 23:53.33 | foxlit | I'm not sure what you mean by that question. |
| 23:54.34 | Semlar | you're saying it prevents the popup but does it actually avoid tainting the execution path |
| 23:55.07 | foxlit | if this thing is sane, you should taint the function you're calling setfenv on. |
| 23:55.23 | kd3 | dropkick murphys doing the national anthem? |
| 23:55.42 | phelps | so, to smooth out the estimated time, I'm "sampling" if you wanna call it that |
| 23:55.49 | phelps | I take 10 estimates and average them |
| 23:56.20 | foxlit | so any resulting calls should also be tainted |
| 23:56.55 | phelps | it makes it looks nicer but probably causes some loss in accuracy |
| 23:57.06 | TGiFallen | I'm trying to understand if there is any benefit to making your ui with an xml file |
| 23:57.13 | Semlar | nope |
| 23:57.15 | foxlit | Yes. |
| 23:57.18 | TGiFallen | other than the fact that you can use a WYSIWYG editor for hte xml |
| 23:57.24 | Semlar | oh god |
| 23:57.33 | foxlit | People hate xml files, do everything in your power to annoy them. |
| 23:57.34 | kd3 | you're separating ui from business logic |
| 23:57.36 | TGiFallen | and WYSIWYG typically sucks |
| 23:58.07 | Semlar | you can separate the ui and still use lua |
| 23:58.09 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower|Work (~MentalPow@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 23:58.09 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower|Work] by ChanServ |
| 23:58.28 | TGiFallen | yeah but kd3 you can do that all with lua, 1 file to create the UI and another to do the logic |
| 23:58.29 | Semlar | the only thing xml offers is the ability to create templates |
| 23:58.33 | *** join/#wowuidev nibordoohe (~thubble@50.92.37.129) |
| 23:58.53 | Semlar | which i don't believe you can do in lua |
| 23:58.57 | TGiFallen | And i don't even know what a template is in this instance, but i have a feeling |
| 23:59.18 | Semlar | a template is a frame style that can be inherited |
| 23:59.29 | TGiFallen | ok i thought so |
| 23:59.42 | Semlar | so when you create your frame it uses the same model described by the template |
| 23:59.53 | TGiFallen | and you can *still* do that in lua, you just have to have your own function to create frames |
