| 00:00.00 | Xuerian | That makes sense with the black boxes. |
| 00:00.35 | Amarande | though the latest Catalyst didn't fix it either |
| 00:01.42 | Xuerian | Not too surprised. I try to leave mine alone for as long as possible once they seem to work for most of my games =| |
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| 00:03.16 | Amarande | yeah 13.9 fixed a huge problem, though |
| 00:03.32 | Amarande | 13.4 had a nasty glitch where the computer would randomly BSOD upon putting the display to sleep |
| 00:03.49 | Amarande | and, since it would do it during that particular operation, you would never know till you came back to the computer and it wouldn't respond |
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| 00:36.36 | foxlit | Cleared (all-time) history, it behaves better now. |
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| 00:46.59 | znf | hey Amarande |
| 00:47.10 | znf | who do I have on ignore? You seem to be talking in multiple lines again |
| 00:47.54 | Amarande | znf: foxlit, Xuerian, and zenzelezz have been the only others to speak in the past hour |
| 00:48.03 | znf | oh, ok |
| 00:48.05 | znf | nevermind me, then |
| 00:52.53 | TGiFallen | You can put people on ignore? |
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| 01:21.55 | Neffi | lol http://imgur.com/gallery/AttOgRn |
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| 01:23.52 | Neffi | It's things like this that make me enjoy Skyrim despite the valid criticisms against it |
| 01:23.52 | Neffi | http://imgur.com/gallery/QmgVi |
| 01:24.18 | Amarande | TGiFallen, most IRC clients have a feature that lets you select a person or persons (often using the same sort of hostmask used for banning) to be ignored |
| 01:24.28 | Neffi | You can only pay attention to the dialog in the main storyline and assume its lore is run of the mill. Or you can dig through clues and books and symbols hidden on walls in inside bug jars and realize it's incredibly well written. |
| 01:24.46 | Amarande | It's only rarely done at server level (where it's called "silence" IIRC) |
| 01:25.14 | Neffi | And the thorough use of literary device throughout suggests it's NOT some run of the mill crap |
| 01:29.01 | Xuerian | Neffi: That and the game gets a lot better when the community gets a good set of overhauls out. |
| 01:29.36 | Neffi | I think the outlook that mods add a lot to the gameplay that deserves to be there to begin with is a really valid criticism |
| 01:29.50 | Neffi | But it also doesn't help the fact that if you install a few mods, the game becomes really fucking awesome |
| 01:30.35 | Neffi | Take the pitfalls or circumvent them, if you look from a standpoint of utility, it's a great game. And if you look from the standpoint of storytelling, it's one of the greatest game franchises ever. |
| 01:31.45 | Xuerian | Supposing your list isn't small, sure, I'd go with that. The ability to expand and fix it help it out a lot, just like it did Neverwinter Nights, and does Minecraft. |
| 01:32.10 | Neffi | list isn't small? meaning what? |
| 01:32.33 | Xuerian | Of "best game franchises ever". I mean, numbering 3-8 or so, not 1-3. |
| 01:32.46 | Neffi | In terms of storytelling alone, I feel it's easily top 5 |
| 01:33.23 | Neffi | But I also think the fact that it DOESNT throw all the fine details at you during the normal course of questing is a plus |
| 01:33.26 | Neffi | Because that's unrealistic |
| 01:33.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Arrow|phone (~arrow@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ResponsibleForEverythingAndNothing/Arrowmaster) |
| 01:33.43 | Neffi | The average person isn't a historian, so you can't expect to fathom the universe's tale just by meeting a few dozen NPCs |
| 01:33.49 | Xuerian | GW2 does the same thing, for all the grief it gets. |
| 01:33.50 | Neffi | That's a big plus to its storytelling for me |
| 01:33.53 | xyphoid | my only real gripe with skyrim was the convenient exit from every dungeon |
| 01:34.37 | Amarande | xyphoid: that's a bad thing? :) |
| 01:34.51 | xyphoid | just give me a fast travel popup at the end |
| 01:34.53 | Arrow|phone | Parnic: playing CAH and this happened http://www.imgur.com/cLvcdSu.jpeg |
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| 01:35.09 | xyphoid | don't pretend every dungeon in the world has a secret door or drop-down ledge back to the starting point |
| 01:35.32 | Xuerian | Neffi: Of course, in GW2 people complain that there's a severe lack of lore, when in fact there's a abundance of it, but you have to be looking for it, or listening to local NPC lines, etc. |
| 01:35.39 | Neffi | Things like that come into the realm of balance between realism and playability |
| 01:35.48 | Neffi | A game developer might call it a necessity |
| 01:35.51 | Neffi | I'm neutral towards it |
| 01:35.52 | xyphoid | well, you can be totally playable by letting me fast travel back to the start of the dungeon |
| 01:35.56 | Xuerian | xyphoid: Dungeons in the real world generally don't contain magical artifacts, dragon shouts, and undead, either |
| 01:36.01 | xyphoid | probably easier to implement too |
| 01:36.14 | Neffi | Xuerian: He probably means the world of Nirn |
| 01:36.41 | Xuerian | Oh. Well, ok, sure. Gameplay and all that, though. |
| 01:37.09 | Neffi | A game that circumvents conveniences isn't going to amass a large audience |
| 01:37.28 | Neffi | Every art form caters to the user to some extent -- and if it doesn't, you've probably never heard of it (nor have the hipsters) |
| 01:38.05 | xyphoid | all i wanted was the convenience to be something out of the game world. after dungeon #18's lever-opening-secret-door-at-entrance, augh |
| 01:38.14 | Neffi | But doing things like fast travel are sort of a "context switch" in the mind. It brings the fact that you're playing a game to the forefront. |
| 01:38.42 | Neffi | Having an unrealistic escape route that doesn't impose an interface on you keeps you in the sense of immersion, so while you might not like it, it's the lesser of two evils |
| 01:38.48 | xyphoid | i didn't find fast travel in the overworld particularly jarring |
| 01:39.12 | Neffi | Not jarring, no |
| 01:39.14 | xyphoid | the keeps and stuff were much better than the caves |
| 01:39.15 | Neffi | And some people don't |
| 01:39.16 | Xuerian | It was fun walking to my destination the first two saves, then I gave up =| |
| 01:39.28 | xyphoid | and the tombs were generally awful WHY DO TOMBS HAVE A SECRET EXIT |
| 01:39.31 | Neffi | But the people for whom immersion matters, these things make a huge difference |
| 01:39.55 | Neffi | I don't think it's THAT unbelievable that tombs have secret entrances |
| 01:40.11 | xyphoid | i just think a button to press to avoid having to retrace my steps would have been way less jarring for me than secret exit after final chest #9287 |
| 01:40.12 | Neffi | Necromancers are fucked up individuals and probably have their hand in a lot of dealings |
| 01:40.17 | Xuerian | xyphoid: You know what got me more? The coffins. You walk through a unremarkable doorway and WHUMP, suddenly for no reason your stealthy character wakes draugur |
| 01:40.44 | xyphoid | haha yeah, but at least i can buy draugur SENSING LIFE ENERGY or whatever |
| 01:41.10 | Neffi | Well no |
| 01:41.13 | Neffi | That doesn't happen |
| 01:41.17 | Neffi | Not in TES lore |
| 01:41.26 | Xuerian | And you can walk by the ones in the walls, most of the time |
| 01:41.38 | Neffi | Chalk it up to playability. Difficulty is good. |
| 01:41.51 | Neffi | Or their senses are acute when resting |
| 01:42.21 | xyphoid | i just think the secret exits were a solution for playability that was a dumb one, when they could have just used the same thing they use in the overworld |
| 01:42.31 | Xuerian | I could go with it if it was consistent. "Draugur of X kind will detect life and wake", but it's not. |
| 01:42.47 | Iriel | A couple of times the exits were cool, but i'm with you that EVERY dungeon having one was a bit odd. |
| 01:43.07 | Iriel | Maybe it's the skyrim equivalent of handicapped accessible ramps? |
| 01:43.12 | xyphoid | i really enjoyed attacking ruined keeps and stuff because they tended to not work like that |
| 01:43.25 | Iriel | Perhaps there's some kind of world-wide requirements for all dungeons to have a quick exit. |
| 01:43.28 | xyphoid | you could often go in one of 3-4 doors and approach them in quite different orders |
| 01:43.29 | Xuerian | Well, it seems odd for all of them to have it, but I know if I were making a secret underground hideout, I'd have back ways out. |
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| 01:43.57 | xyphoid | Iriel: haha who knows maybe there's a book that explains you have to have a secret door in case the people you're entombing aren't quite dead |
| 01:44.12 | xyphoid | like those coffin bell accessories from the victorian era |
| 01:44.21 | Iriel | It might also have been a necessity to compensate for the crapness of consoles as a platform. |
| 01:45.07 | xyphoid | but man, I loved it when you went into a castle from an odd direction and ran into clearly setpiece fights from the wrong direction |
| 01:45.37 | Amarande | xyphoid: sometimes that's actually intended, like the big ambush in Turef in Death Knights of Krynn |
| 01:45.53 | Xuerian | Clear out all the enemies, realize you went in the front door instead of the "convenient quest entrance" |
| 01:47.33 | Amarande | but yeah, that kind of exit is often the lesser evil |
| 01:47.56 | Amarande | sometimes teleportation isn't apropos, and nobody EVER likes having to trudge out the cleared dungeon the regular way |
| 01:48.09 | xyphoid | the game has fast travel in it |
| 01:48.27 | Amarande | Can you imagine what BRD would be like if you had no mage in the group and you didn't have a hearthstone at the end? :) |
| 01:48.59 | Amarande | or worse, Maraudon (come to think of it, CAN you even exit the last bits of Maraudon without hearth/portal?) |
| 01:49.40 | Iriel | Well, any time you pass a "one way" barrier you'd expect there to be some sort of path back. |
| 01:51.17 | Amarande | yeah, I can't remember if you can get back up from the waterfall/cliff that goes towards the final area though |
| 01:51.26 | fewyn | since when can the NA client see chinese characters? |
| 01:51.36 | Amarande | fewyn, since they invented Unicode, I imagine |
| 01:51.43 | fewyn | no it used to not work |
| 01:51.46 | fewyn | at least not in wrath :( |
| 01:51.59 | Amarande | wow ... wow chat didn't used to do unicode? |
| 01:52.06 | fewyn | nope |
| 01:52.18 | Iriel | ? |
| 01:52.22 | Neffi | It still null-terminates strings |
| 01:52.31 | Neffi | But to be fair that doesn't matter |
| 01:52.33 | fewyn | at least in wrath on illidan all the chinese players i could never see the characters |
| 01:52.36 | fewyn | they were always boxes |
| 01:52.52 | Iriel | I think you'er confusing the game's ability to use certain characters with the fonts' ability to display them |
| 01:52.57 | fewyn | MAYBE |
| 01:53.05 | fewyn | but i've always used default font |
| 01:53.06 | fewyn | i think |
| 01:53.34 | Iriel | The UI's been UTF-8 internally forever (at least as long as I'm aware of. |
| 01:53.56 | fewyn | maybe i used a non-default font then |
| 01:54.05 | Iriel | But I suspect the availabile character sets have been evolving as the game has been spreading |
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| 01:54.39 | fewyn | there were a lot of chinese players on illidan so it was always kinda annoying |
| 01:54.42 | Neffi | wtf |
| 01:54.55 | Neffi | I just Fire Blasted a snake, and the one NEXT TO IT got hit with my Touch of the Grave |
| 01:55.43 | Amarande | I've been gone from WoW for too long, I forget whether that's a lock or a mage spell :( |
| 01:55.51 | Amarande | and since both classes are available to undead ... yeah heh |
| 01:55.58 | fewyn | it's a lock? i think? |
| 01:56.01 | Semlar | priest? |
| 01:56.10 | Amarande | Semlar: priests use fire? :) |
| 01:56.10 | fewyn | could be a priest |
| 01:56.14 | fewyn | or it might be undead? |
| 01:56.19 | Neffi | Mage spell. Touch is the UD racial |
| 01:56.22 | fewyn | I HAVE NO IDEA ANYMORE |
| 01:56.37 | Neffi | I was mousing over the other snake when my Touch of the Grave procced and landed on it instead |
| 01:56.40 | Semlar | i couldn't remember if it was the undead priest racial or not |
| 01:56.50 | Amarande | I still wish WoW had a class that was quite like the Powertech from TOR |
| 01:56.55 | Neffi | Nah, just a UD reacvial |
| 01:57.02 | Amarande | DK might be close, but probably not quite :S |
| 01:57.10 | Semlar | i guess it's what they replaced underwater breathing with |
| 01:57.15 | Neffi | I still wish WoW had a true ranger class |
| 01:57.20 | Neffi | Or a shadow archer |
| 01:57.32 | Amarande | aren't hunters pretty much rangers? |
| 01:57.36 | Semlar | the old priest racials were confusing |
| 01:57.42 | Neffi | It's arguable |
| 01:57.48 | Neffi | They're gimped out melee wise |
| 01:57.57 | Neffi | And I feel like the reliance on pets diminishes the feel of a ranger |
| 01:58.02 | Semlar | oh yeah undead had devouring plague |
| 01:58.31 | xyphoid | what's a true ranger though |
| 01:58.38 | Semlar | http://www.wowwiki.com/Touch_of_Weakness |
| 01:58.56 | Semlar | this is what i was thinking of |
| 01:59.15 | xyphoid | i'd like to see a game with a ranger class that sucked at combat for a change and was a primarily healer/leader |
| 01:59.23 | Neffi | xyphoid: It'd be a cross between rogue and hunter |
| 01:59.26 | xyphoid | EAT THESE HERBS |
| 01:59.41 | Xuerian | nom nom nom nom nom YEP THAT RESTORES HEALTH |
| 01:59.46 | Neffi | They're stealthy, equally capable archers and swordsman, great trackers, users of poisons and especially herb for healing |
| 01:59.56 | Xuerian | nom nom lkjWErhhg*GHRHRHHGH* ... GHWERHGH... yeah. Definitely poison. |
| 01:59.59 | xyphoid | hmm sargeras hit you for 720,000 points of damage HERE IS A POULTICE |
| 02:00.44 | Xuerian | Anyway, we already have bandage rogues for that. :| |
| 02:00.46 | xyphoid | it appears your head has been completely cut off, what you need is some willowbark tea |
| 02:02.09 | Neffi | Rangers are not upfront healers |
| 02:02.15 | Neffi | They can tend to wounds, not heal |
| 02:02.23 | Neffi | They're users of medicine basically |
| 02:03.10 | Neffi | Unless you count splashing endless health potions on the tank healing |
| 02:03.21 | xyphoid | well isn't that how shamans work |
| 02:03.25 | Neffi | roughly |
| 02:03.35 | xyphoid | i always assumed the tank was very very damp after i healed them on my shaman |
| 02:03.35 | Neffi | there's some weird ritual with a wolf involved |
| 02:04.27 | xyphoid | supersoaker + healing potion = resto shaman |
| 02:04.59 | Neffi | +1 |
| 02:05.24 | Neffi | irl we call that a douchebag for getting everyone sticky by using fruit punch instead of water |
| 02:05.40 | Neffi | which gives me an incredible idea |
| 02:08.04 | Thunder_Child | That can't be good. |
| 02:08.56 | Thunder_Child | Shirik: Such a trator. |
| 02:11.22 | Amarande | xyphoid: heh |
| 02:11.39 | Amarande | by the time we actually encounter Sargeras, it'll probably be more like 720,000,000 points of damage |
| 02:11.42 | Neffi | http://i.imgur.com/EAUVXho.gif |
| 02:11.44 | Neffi | brilliant |
| 02:12.18 | Amarande | given the rate stats have been inflating and the fact that my guess is we'll probably not encounter the big S until the absolute ultimate complete final end of all days raid that signals the last content WoW will ever be given |
| 02:12.34 | Amarande | which won't be for at least two expansions yet, possibly more |
| 02:14.07 | Neffi | hehe http://i.imgur.com/1ncArjo.jpg |
| 02:16.55 | Amarande | mind you, I'm still trying to figure out where they're going to find content for these two expansions |
| 02:17.02 | Amarande | unless they pull a whole world-changing cata thing again, anyway |
| 02:17.17 | Xuerian | Introduce some new lore. |
| 02:17.21 | Amarande | do we really have anything left to use besides Emerald Dream? |
| 02:17.46 | Xuerian | (Which was supposedly the subject of each of the three previous expansions, each time) |
| 02:17.51 | Amarande | Emerald Dream, the canned Vashj'ir raid, the remaining portals in Wyrmrest, and that strange goblin resort and the other stuff between Feralas and Silithus |
| 02:17.58 | Amarande | I'm not sure much else actually remains unused |
| 02:18.37 | Amarande | oh, and the east coast of Eversong and Ghostlands |
| 02:18.48 | Amarande | pretty much everything else is already fully accessible, as far as I can recall |
| 02:18.52 | Dagmar | Wait... the goblin resort? |
| 02:19.07 | Amarande | Dagmar: some sort of odd resort looking thing up in the mountains, as I remember |
| 02:19.07 | Neffi | The Scourge Strikes Back |
| 02:19.08 | Dagmar | I can't really see that one being a raid. |
| 02:19.25 | Amarande | yeah, me neither ... it could get questgivers, though |
| 02:19.37 | Amarande | and there has to be a place for other expansion content, not just the raids, too |
| 02:19.38 | Neffi | They could fit another continent |
| 02:19.41 | Xuerian | Did they ever clear out south of the maelstrom? "The goblin starter area is all that is there", that is |
| 02:19.42 | Neffi | They could add a new planet |
| 02:19.57 | Amarande | didn't we do "in space" with outland? |
| 02:20.03 | Iriel | They could add a whole place in the planet's core |
| 02:20.04 | Neffi | They can do it again |
| 02:20.09 | Amarande | Pandaria was unexpected, OTOH |
| 02:20.12 | Iriel | Even deeper than the last one |
| 02:20.26 | Xuerian | They sortof did that already, Iriel, but I would be up for a .. what was the movie? land before time? expansion. |
| 02:20.27 | Neffi | They can revive old threats |
| 02:20.30 | Iriel | Dalaran did the cloud city thing |
| 02:20.50 | xyphoid | a full underground expansion would be pro |
| 02:21.09 | Xuerian | Opened up by cracks from Cata, or something |
| 02:21.11 | Neffi | Do we actually know how much of the planet's surface is taken up? What's exactly opposite of the Maelstrom? |
| 02:21.12 | Amarande | hm, do we have the "temple with evil spirit" (aka Yavin 4/Freedon Nadd ... or was that Exar Kun *scratches head*) theme yet? |
| 02:21.40 | Amarande | xyphoid: I think they considered that with Azjol-Nerub for Wrath then canned that and turned it into two instances |
| 02:21.52 | Xuerian | I just want to see more Titan content, though I guess that kind of ended with Algalon, didn't it |
| 02:22.01 | Amarande | To tell the truth, a "Moria" expansion would make lorehounds happy but would probably infuriate gamers |
| 02:22.18 | Amarande | just like was the case in LOTRO ... dear gods, fewer things are more welcome than making it out to Lorien |
| 02:22.18 | xyphoid | Uldum too |
| 02:22.49 | Neffi | wait wait wait |
| 02:22.54 | Neffi | You got to explore Moria in LOTRO? |
| 02:22.55 | Neffi | !!! |
| 02:22.59 | Xuerian | EQN makes a better case for underground content though, I think, due to destructible terrain. |
| 02:23.01 | Amarande | Neffi: unfortunately, yes |
| 02:23.09 | Neffi | You spoiled bastard |
| 02:23.12 | Amarande | you spent around levels 50-60 there, which is about nine or ten levels too long :P |
| 02:23.12 | Shirik | Thunder_Child? |
| 02:23.15 | xyphoid | lotro is pretty cool |
| 02:23.37 | xyphoid | i drop back into it occasionally - it has nice landscapes and nails the atmosphere |
| 02:23.41 | Amarande | the main problem there is that with the extreme 3D, it's practically impossible to tell exactly which way to get from point A to point B reliably without previous memory |
| 02:23.59 | Neffi | It's fucking Moria |
| 02:24.00 | xyphoid | oh no you're level 50 and have to learn your way around a map |
| 02:24.05 | xyphoid | my heart bleeds |
| 02:24.08 | Amarande | and you basically can't avoid battle with ANY enemies you come across, unlike outdoor areas |
| 02:24.08 | Xuerian | chuckles. |
| 02:24.27 | Amarande | so, it's basically like this ... take tunnel that looks like it goes to quest zone. slog through forty billion orcs that you can't slip through like you could outside. |
| 02:24.39 | Amarande | realise that this is NOT THE RIGHT TUNNEL and the only way back is the way you came ... slog through forty billion orcs |
| 02:24.45 | Neffi | I don't want to get into LOTRO. The lack of real PvP is bad enough, but I feel like it'll kill Tolkien for me |
| 02:24.56 | Amarande | rinse and repeat until five or six paths later you manage to find the right tunnel by which time you never want to see another orc again |
| 02:25.02 | Amarande | realise your next quest will be like this as well |
| 02:25.03 | Neffi | I can't see it being grand or subtle enough to pay proper homage to the story |
| 02:25.08 | Neffi | And probably misses a lot of details |
| 02:25.11 | xyphoid | it is pretty good reall |
| 02:25.14 | Amarande | be super glad when you finally get to 58-60 and can exit out the other end to Lorien |
| 02:25.54 | xyphoid | the shire totally nails the atmosphere for me |
| 02:25.58 | Amarande | yeah, it is pretty good |
| 02:26.05 | Amarande | xyphoid: there's "learn your way around a map" and "total maze" |
| 02:26.09 | xyphoid | Amarande: get hard |
| 02:26.10 | Amarande | unfortunately, about half of Moria is the latter |
| 02:26.15 | xyphoid | IT IS MORIA |
| 02:26.27 | Amarande | well, that was the point I was trying to make about an underground expansion idea |
| 02:26.29 | xyphoid | i really enjoyed getting hella lost in the Old Forest too |
| 02:26.40 | Amarande | it may be lore-appropriate, but it's quite often not ... what's that word, the one games are supposed to be? ... |
| 02:26.59 | xyphoid | challenging? |
| 02:27.03 | Neffi | lol |
| 02:27.04 | Amarande | Fun? |
| 02:27.05 | xyphoid | interesting? |
| 02:27.06 | Neffi | no idea man |
| 02:27.07 | xyphoid | deep? |
| 02:27.52 | xyphoid | plus an underground expansion doesn't have to be entirely a maze, see deepholm |
| 02:27.53 | Amarande | mind you, part of the problem is that the maps in LOTRO were always only kinda sorta useful |
| 02:27.56 | xyphoid | i loved deepholm |
| 02:28.10 | Amarande | then you get to Moria, where you really really wish you *had* an accurate map to refer to ... |
| 02:28.23 | Amarande | and I've only been able to find one really nicely, accurately drawn map of any of the Moria zones |
| 02:28.46 | Amarande | unfortunately, it's Foundations of Stone (the top level area of Moria so many players probably only go there for the book quests and then book it out) |
| 02:28.59 | Amarande | and the person who draws them won't be making any of the rest because she was hired by SOE, apparently |
| 02:29.19 | Amarande | damn you Sony. :P |
| 02:29.27 | Neffi | Are they anything like the foldout maps in the books? |
| 02:29.48 | Neffi | I like the sloppy style of the ones in the books |
| 02:29.58 | Neffi | Feels like it could've come from the universe |
| 02:30.25 | Amarande | http://www.thebrasse.com/lotromap/81 |
| 02:30.33 | Amarande | ah, maybe I spoke too soon about no more maps ... there are a few more now |
| 02:30.39 | xyphoid | anyway it's ftp so worth making a hobbit and tooling around - you pay for later zone access basically |
| 02:30.39 | Amarande | unfortunately, they're the ones I usually *don't* get lost in :( |
| 02:31.11 | Amarande | except maybe silvertine lodes |
| 02:31.34 | Amarande | that was the other problem with Moria ... it would have been another thing altogether if it was the higher level/off the beaten path zones that had most of the lost-getting in them |
| 02:31.54 | Amarande | however, instead, it was mostly the first few zones that were the most complicated |
| 02:32.14 | Amarande | the off the main path zones actually tended to be the easier ones to get around |
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| 02:33.17 | Amarande | maybe my class had an effect on the experience as well |
| 02:34.07 | Amarande | I mained a Guardian, so I had excellent survivability but slow damage dealing. Great while questing, because you can so easily pick and choose your fights in LOTRO and sometimes you do need to fight a tougher Signature or occasionally an Elite without help (and generally anything up to at least Rare Elite is soloable by GRD within a reasonable level range) |
| 02:34.32 | Amarande | Sucks in Moria, because you basically *can't* skip anything, so you have to slog, and the slow killing means time for everything to have respawned for the trip back |
| 02:35.19 | Amarande | and you have to hope you have a shield bash on hand for bloodied fury or you will be bloody furious |
| 02:35.33 | Amarande | xyphoid, remember that enemy skill? :) |
| 02:38.50 | Thunder_Child | Shirik: because your tag is now all for SKTT1 instead of OMG |
| 02:43.18 | karl_w_w | Does anyone know of a simple app that will sync a list or similar between multiple android and iOS devices? |
| 02:54.56 | kd3 | I'm using dropbox to keep stuff in sync between all of my devices. only wrinkle is I have to manually download changed files on my android phone |
| 02:55.19 | kd3 | though it uploads photos to the rest of my stuff automatically |
| 02:55.36 | kd3 | s/stuff/devices/ |
| 02:59.35 | Neffi | karl_w_w: Evernote? Note Everything? Google Keep? |
| 03:00.16 | karl_w_w | Why are you asking me, I clearly don't know :P |
| 03:01.07 | Neffi | I was wondering what exactly you meant |
| 03:01.20 | Neffi | "a list or similar" seems like you've got a particular need |
| 03:01.23 | Neffi | But Evernote is good |
| 03:01.43 | Neffi | I use Google Keep because-- I honestly don't know why. Evernote is better IMO. |
| 03:02.24 | Shirik | oh |
| 03:02.28 | Shirik | well my #2 Thunder_Child :( |
| 03:06.05 | karl_w_w | yeah evernote does look good |
| 03:07.21 | Thunder_Child | Whatever you say Shirik. |
| 03:07.22 | Neffi | I wonder if it'd be overkill to set up Git on an always-on system for manually syncing everything between devices |
| 03:07.34 | Neffi | Well, automatically syncing |
| 03:08.06 | kd3 | if by git do you mean rsync? |
| 03:08.34 | Neffi | git would give me more power |
| 03:09.54 | Xuerian | If your stuff doesn't change often, I guess |
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| 04:02.48 | karl_w_w | wow mr robot gives me this error: all weights except weapon dps must be positive numbers less than 10 |
| 04:03.15 | karl_w_w | if simcraft tells me hit is worth 10.82 to me, then that's what hit is worth |
| 04:15.21 | Amarande | hm |
| 04:15.36 | Amarande | I'm reading through an EJ thread on pallies atm and it says Mr Robot is pretty bad at stat allocation |
| 04:15.43 | Amarande | and suggests you use reforgelite instead |
| 04:16.49 | karl_w_w | reforgelite doesn't sim weights though |
| 04:16.56 | karl_w_w | it just has default ones |
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| 04:19.41 | Amarande | of course, on a side point, I've always wondered if Blizzard really intended for us to MATLAB the hell out of everything every expansion and patch instead of, oh, say, playing the game sanely :) |
| 04:20.35 | karl_w_w | it doesn't usually make much difference at all what blizz intends :P |
| 04:21.52 | Amarande | heh, yeah |
| 04:22.13 | Amarande | e.g., blizz pretty much meant for you to be able to go to ICC10 in 245's |
| 04:22.16 | Amarande | but in reality, if you didn't have 264's, you didn't meet people's insane gearscore demands :P |
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| 04:43.36 | Neffi | So it seems Shatter changed since last I played a mage. |
| 04:43.39 | Neffi | It's now "Doubles the critical strike chance of all your spells against frozen targets plus an additional 50%." |
| 04:44.14 | Neffi | Does that mean, say I had 20% crit change: 20*2+50=90%, or 20*2.5=50% ? |
| 04:55.46 | Semlar | the world may never know |
| 04:57.32 | Torhal | seank: How many licks does it take to get to the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie Pop? |
| 04:57.35 | Torhal | Semlar: ^ |
| 04:57.37 | Torhal | seank: Sorry |
| 04:57.44 | Xuerian | how about you ping seank more |
| 04:57.48 | Xuerian | I'm sure seank gets pinged a lot |
| 04:57.50 | Torhal | Hit tab before I hit the "m" key |
| 04:57.59 | Xuerian | seank will probably be disappointed that he's not the real ping |
| 04:58.01 | Xuerian | right seank? |
| 04:58.07 | Xuerian | shows himself out. |
| 04:58.20 | Torhal | I'm shaking my head and laughing. |
| 05:13.17 | Semlar | poor seank |
| 05:13.46 | Semlar | 3 |
| 05:13.50 | Semlar | 3 licks |
| 05:25.21 | karl_w_w | Semlar, how's that rare spawn map coming? |
| 05:25.47 | Semlar | it's pretty much done |
| 05:26.08 | Semlar | it's still screwing with channel numbers though, i haven't figured out how to completely stop that |
| 05:27.48 | kd3 | grr. damn it java. give me an easy option to serialize stuff to a string, not to a file |
| 05:28.13 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:30.50 | Semlar | i don't know if i should have time since last seen or time until it could spawn |
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| 05:32.21 | Semlar | NEFFI |
| 05:34.05 | Semlar | :| |
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| 05:48.15 | karl_w_w | rarecoordinator does since last seen Semlar |
| 05:48.32 | Semlar | i'm changing it to time until the spawn |
| 05:48.47 | Semlar | although i'm still trying to figure out what i'm going to display after that gets to 0 |
| 05:49.17 | kd3 | "I should be spawned!" |
| 05:49.29 | Semlar | well, most of them have 30-60 minute spawn windows |
| 05:49.34 | Semlar | so if i count down to the 30 minute mark |
| 05:49.44 | Semlar | he still has 30 minutes he could spawn during |
| 05:49.56 | kd3 | "spawn cooldown expired"? |
| 05:50.40 | Fisker | hey Shirik |
| 05:50.46 | Shirik | hey Fisker |
| 05:50.52 | Semlar | i was thinking either just "soon" or change the counter look somehow and count to the max spawn time |
| 05:50.58 | Fisker | Why don't they make hearthstone global? |
| 05:52.05 | Semlar | soon is not all that descriptive though |
| 05:52.29 | Semlar | one of them has a really long spawn timer and probably an equally long window |
| 05:52.41 | karl_w_w | there is going to be global play Fisker, but only like D3's shitty method |
| 05:52.45 | karl_w_w | so, I don't know |
| 05:52.55 | Shirik | I found a new reason to hate php |
| 05:53.07 | karl_w_w | some of them are loopy Semlar |
| 05:53.15 | Shirik | "1111" + "2222" results in 3333 (an int) |
| 05:53.18 | karl_w_w | like garnia can spawn in 10 minutes or 90 minutes |
| 05:53.25 | Shirik | "1111" | "2222" results in "0000" (a string) |
| 05:53.38 | Shirik | wait |
| 05:53.41 | Shirik | not 0000 |
| 05:53.46 | Shirik | but whatever the hell 1111 | 2222 is |
| 05:53.47 | Shirik | as a string |
| 05:54.03 | Semlar | uh |
| 05:54.13 | Semlar | how sure of that are you karl |
| 05:54.52 | Semlar | i've been idling at garnia's pool while working on this and it's always been in a 30-60 minute window |
| 05:58.21 | Neffi | SEMLAR |
| 05:58.25 | Neffi | :| |
| 05:58.25 | Semlar | NEFFI |
| 05:58.29 | Neffi | SEMLAR |
| 05:58.33 | Semlar | WHAT |
| 05:58.35 | Calahil | why not just have it say "Spawn Soon" after 30 minutes |
| 05:58.36 | Neffi | ROXANNE |
| 05:58.39 | karl_w_w | the 90min I'm sure of cos I just saw it |
| 05:58.41 | Semlar | NO |
| 05:58.50 | Semlar | were you there the whole 90 minutes? |
| 05:58.52 | karl_w_w | the 10 min I read on wowhead |
| 05:59.13 | karl_w_w | no i wasnt but lots of other people were |
| 05:59.17 | Semlar | i can't make it count down to the spawn timer if i don't actually know the spawn timer |
| 05:59.28 | karl_w_w | and i was there regularly, not away long enough for a corpse despawn |
| 05:59.45 | Semlar | THAT IS NOT IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE |
| 05:59.51 | Semlar | I NEED COLD HARD FAX |
| 06:00.19 | karl_w_w | fine, give me your fax number and I'll dig out my fax modem! |
| 06:00.29 | Semlar | hang on let me get my time machine |
| 06:00.30 | Calahil | just have it say "DEAD" and when someone finds it with the addon it broadcasts "ALIVE" |
| 06:00.50 | karl_w_w | rarecoordinator does all this |
| 06:00.53 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:00.58 | karl_w_w | maybe u should just make it as an addon to that :P |
| 06:01.17 | karl_w_w | or steal all their code and improve it! |
| 06:01.19 | Semlar | maybe if rarecoordinator weren't terrible |
| 06:01.34 | karl_w_w | yeah it's true |
| 06:01.38 | karl_w_w | but it's the best there is |
| 06:01.44 | karl_w_w | hence the improve it part |
| 06:01.45 | Semlar | although i do like it spamming general nigh constantly |
| 06:02.09 | karl_w_w | i think it doesnt let you send the announcement if somebody else has |
| 06:02.19 | karl_w_w | or it could just be that mine is broken |
| 06:02.32 | Semlar | that's basically how i did my chat |
| 06:02.53 | Semlar | just don't broadcast the message if someone said the same thing recently |
| 06:03.37 | Calahil | the addon should choose a leader of the network to broadcast. |
| 06:03.40 | Semlar | i refuse to believe garnia can spawn within 10 minutes |
| 06:06.16 | Semlar | although someone commented that it might scale based on how quickly the other ones were dying |
| 06:08.02 | Calahil | i know the first day one of the rares was popping up alot by the ordos mobs i think it was |
| 06:08.26 | Semlar | probably the archiereus of flame |
| 06:08.34 | Semlar | i'm pretty sure he's based on kills |
| 06:08.44 | Semlar | or at least common enough that i didn't bother tracking it |
| 06:08.50 | Calahil | no it was the weaker ones...once you get up the first hill |
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| 06:13.43 | karl_w_w | and rattleskew apparently has a spawn timer closer to 2 hours |
| 06:14.06 | karl_w_w | and I have never seen or heard of a cranegnasher spawn |
| 06:14.28 | kd3 | cranegnasher is special. http://wowpedia.org/Cranegnasher |
| 06:14.36 | Semlar | cranegnasher has a little thing you drag a crane to and he spawns |
| 06:14.42 | Semlar | i don't track him |
| 06:14.53 | Semlar | rattleskew i don't think i've even ever seen |
| 06:15.11 | kd3 | (I've got all of the rares on the wiki...) |
| 06:15.14 | kd3 | http://wowpedia.org/Rattleskew |
| 06:15.29 | Semlar | i have them all in my addon i just don't know for sure what their respawn timers are |
| 06:15.35 | Semlar | i assumed 30-60 minutes for almost all of them |
| 06:19.40 | Semlar | so rattleskew might have a spawn timer of anywhere between 30 minutes and 3 hours? |
| 06:19.56 | kd3 | as best as I remember from the ptr, it's <60m |
| 06:20.13 | kd3 | he only spawns if someone's there after the event's started and has killed 2 waves of trash |
| 06:20.29 | Semlar | okay so there's more than just the timer |
| 06:20.37 | kd3 | much like the alemental invastion at old pi'jiu |
| 06:20.45 | kd3 | invasion* |
| 06:21.07 | Semlar | hmm well they probably took that into account when they were making their posts on wowhead |
| 06:21.24 | Semlar | some people have reported camping him and not having him spawn for over 2 hours |
| 06:21.37 | Semlar | i wonder if there could be other factors |
| 06:21.54 | kd3 | meh. maybe the timer changed from the ptr. I could check hourly and the event would be running |
| 06:28.25 | Semlar | there would appear to be a singing bass inside his shipwreck |
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| 06:45.08 | karl_w_w | most of them spawn closer to an hour than 30 mins |
| 06:48.27 | karl_w_w | Huolong till Huolon? Not Tsulong! |
| 06:50.53 | karl_w_w | in fact the only ones I remember spawning around the 30-40 min mark are the little variable location ones around the middle and bufo |
| 06:59.03 | Semlar | i'm pretty sure i've seen huolon spawn at 30 minutes |
| 06:59.40 | Semlar | i know i've seen garnia spawn at 30 minutes |
| 06:59.50 | Semlar | the rest i haven't really camped |
| 07:00.50 | Semlar | it would be easy to collect data with other people running the addon |
| 07:01.31 | Semlar | although i might have to upload it first |
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| 07:38.20 | karl_w_w | damn i have 2 rares left to kill for my achieve but their spawn windows line up |
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| 08:15.13 | Clamsoda | Good morning. |
| 08:39.06 | Neffi | Thanks alot Wikipedia http://i.imgur.com/pdJhFzF.png |
| 08:43.46 | zenzelezz | so, if the documentation for a function parameter says 'Array with keys "x", "y", "width" and "height"', would you read this as "an associative array" or "a flat array"? |
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| 08:48.28 | Fisker | whats an alot Neffi :3? |
| 08:48.58 | Neffi | what's a fisker fisker? |
| 08:49.09 | Fisker | oh ok |
| 08:49.17 | Neffi | wait what |
| 08:50.17 | zenzelezz | Fisker: http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.no/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html |
| 08:50.18 | Neffi | zenzelezz: that sounds like an associative |
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| 09:00.41 | Clamsoda | Zenzelezz: Associative array. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associative_array |
| 09:01.44 | zenzelezz | Clamsoda, Neffi: most definitely... the only problem is the function absolutely throws a fit when I use one =D |
| 09:01.55 | zenzelezz | I hate documentation sometimes |
| 09:02.17 | Clamsoda | Language? |
| 09:02.48 | zenzelezz | PHP (of course) |
| 09:02.55 | zenzelezz | extension, so not exactly PHP's fault |
| 09:03.39 | Neffi | Everything's PHP's fault |
| 09:03.49 | zenzelezz | not entirely untrue |
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| 09:11.07 | Clamsoda | Why can't UnitAura just accept SpellId =/ |
| 09:12.54 | Shirik | how would you tell the difference between a spell id and the index? |
| 09:13.21 | Shirik | you could probably get away with something awkward like > 100 |
| 09:13.46 | Shirik | but not really correct |
| 09:14.19 | haste | could have solved it by doing: "spellid:34" and such |
| 09:14.35 | Semlar | you can loop over their auras and check each one's spell id |
| 09:14.42 | Semlar | otherwise you're stuck with the name |
| 09:14.51 | Clamsoda | What would be the purpose of the Aura's index if it could be referenced directly by its unique spell ID? |
| 09:15.02 | Shirik | if you have no idea what you're looking at |
| 09:15.13 | haste | or just want to loop through them |
| 09:15.17 | Shirik | well that's what I mean |
| 09:15.29 | Shirik | if you're looping through them you probably aren't looking for something in particular |
| 09:16.34 | Shirik | do local ua = UnitAura; function UnitAura(...) local id = ...; return ua(tonumber(id) > 100 and GetSpellInfo(id) or id, select(2, ...)) end |
| 09:16.35 | Shirik | end |
| 09:16.36 | Shirik | there |
| 09:16.38 | Clamsoda | The only thing the aura's index is useful for is referencing the position in a for i = 1, 40 loop, which would be deprecated if spellID was a valid medium for searching for an aura. |
| 09:16.43 | Shirik | UnitAura now accepts spell IDs |
| 09:17.23 | haste | but most people don't want to search for spellids Clamsoda |
| 09:17.55 | Maldivia | without the index, it would be hard to list all auras :P |
| 09:18.07 | Clamsoda | Hmmm, how selfish of me ^o^ |
| 09:18.07 | haste | exactly, which is what most people do |
| 09:18.11 | Shirik | obviously you just loop over all spell ids |
| 09:18.23 | haste | yes, optimal solution right there :D |
| 09:18.26 | Shirik | :P |
| 09:18.47 | Clamsoda | Lucky for me, that's already what I am doing. |
| 09:18.57 | haste | D: |
| 09:19.01 | Shirik | what? |
| 09:19.13 | haste | sounds like.. you're doing something wrong :3 |
| 09:19.35 | Clamsoda | Looping over the buff indexes, and matching the spellID. |
| 09:19.43 | Shirik | oh |
| 09:19.47 | Shirik | but not looping over all spell IDs |
| 09:19.50 | Clamsoda | OH. |
| 09:19.51 | Maldivia | I wonder what's fastest... UnitAura("Spell Name"), or foreach UnitAura(index), and compare spellId |
| 09:19.52 | Clamsoda | Lord no. |
| 09:20.19 | Shirik | I'm going to vote for the former |
| 09:20.28 | Shirik | string compares are fast and it gets to run in C |
| 09:20.57 | Shirik | though that might actually be all Lua |
| 09:21.07 | Shirik | but UnitAura is a C Lua function |
| 09:21.23 | Shirik | of course the C-Lua transition sucks |
| 09:21.28 | Shirik | but I still think you win out |
| 09:21.34 | Clamsoda | And when there are 100 debuffs called Mortal Strike that all have difference healing reductions? |
| 09:21.59 | Maldivia | then you're not looking for _one_ aura, but for many |
| 09:22.50 | Clamsoda | So, I'll scan the tooltip to make sure the percent healing reduction is correct? |
| 09:24.26 | Semlar | that's about the short of it |
| 09:25.06 | Clamsoda | I can't imagine that is faster than looping over a few debuffs and matching the SpellID. |
| 09:25.39 | Clamsoda | Outside of PvP, how often does a player get more than 2 or 3 debuffs? Not to mention, if the debuff is the first or second index, you can always break out of the loop. |
| 09:25.40 | Semlar | but even the same spell id could have different amounts |
| 09:25.50 | Clamsoda | If it stacked, yes. |
| 09:26.07 | Torhal | removes all of Semlar's POI pins. |
| 09:26.11 | Semlar | :( |
| 09:26.16 | Clamsoda | But UnitAura returns >0 for auras that stack. |
| 09:26.21 | Semlar | now i won't know where anything is |
| 09:26.27 | Clamsoda | =[ |
| 09:26.29 | Torhal | adds Fog of War. |
| 09:26.34 | Semlar | stop that! |
| 09:26.44 | Clamsoda | Quick, get a map AddOn! |
| 09:26.47 | Torhal | I was trying to be nostalgic! |
| 09:27.13 | Semlar | war ain't what it used to be |
| 09:27.54 | Torhal | goes to bed. |
| 09:28.24 | Shirik | I think bed is a good idea |
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| 11:08.13 | karl_w_w | Why doesn't Elton John like lettuce? |
| 11:08.18 | karl_w_w | Because he's a Rocket Man. |
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| 12:52.47 | karl_w_w | is there a way to make aliases in tomtom? |
| 12:53.05 | karl_w_w | like if I go to a place regularly I'd like to be able to type /way <place> |
| 12:54.02 | karl_w_w | I guess there isn't and I don't really want to run another addon for such a feature |
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| 14:29.15 | pompy | http://new.livestream.com/spacex/F9-6 t-1.5 hrs ... coverage beginning at 8:15am PDT |
| 14:32.09 | Industrial | a mob missed a curs on me .. |
| 14:32.12 | Industrial | Fisker: I curse you! |
| 14:32.26 | Industrial | shoot, missed.. |
| 14:32.57 | Fisker | why? :( |
| 14:40.27 | karl_w_w | mangy curs! |
| 14:43.07 | rid_ | thx pompy |
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| 14:59.01 | pompy | rid_: np |
| 14:59.18 | pompy | demo launch, but given their track record, im sure it'll be a success |
| 15:03.25 | zenzelezz | 8 PDT, that's in about an hour? |
| 15:03.49 | Maldivia | 19 minutes |
| 15:03.54 | Maldivia | 12* |
| 15:03.55 | zenzelezz | oh |
| 15:06.23 | pompy | launch is in 56 minutes |
| 15:06.36 | pompy | webcast starts in 10 minutes |
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| 15:17.22 | karl_w_w | http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/benchmark/ never before has a benchmark so made me want to buy a game |
| 15:24.37 | zenzelezz | "Occupy Mars"... some would say that sounds stereotypically American |
| 15:27.34 | pompy | lol |
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| 15:34.05 | pompy | ugh i cant get the stream on my phone |
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| 16:05.25 | jnwhiteh | karl_w_w: no, but it wouldn't be *too* tough to add some slash commands for it |
| 16:09.55 | Fisker | hey jnwhiteh |
| 16:10.01 | Fisker | how is your eu beta key hunting going? |
| 16:10.19 | jnwhiteh | umm |
| 16:10.29 | jnwhiteh | i haven't done much on it, but I also haven't succeeded =) |
| 16:10.35 | Fisker | :P |
| 16:10.52 | Fisker | Open Beta probably isn't too far away though |
| 16:11.00 | jnwhiteh | yeah |
| 16:11.03 | jnwhiteh | just want to start building my deck |
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| 16:17.28 | karl_w_w | best combination of cosmetic items ever: brazier of dancing flames and rime of the time-lost mariner |
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| 17:46.19 | Industrial | Can I get Carbonite to only show the minimal detail level, not the world map detail level? |
| 17:46.24 | Industrial | minimap* |
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| 18:33.31 | Amarande | Yay, UI Configgle Hour is done ... I think. heh. |
| 18:33.59 | Amarande | hmm I also see that weird behaviour on a fresh install persists. I'm still not sure why it was changed anyways |
| 18:34.56 | Amarande | Used to be when you freshly installed WoW it would default to taking you to the server you had the most characters on. Now it asks you what realm type you'd like and then to the character creation screen on the new players realm, as if you were new. |
| 18:39.20 | foxlit | http://wowpedia.org/SetTexCoord_Transformations << whee, this thing is a little dusty. |
| 18:41.18 | Maldivia | go fix it then |
| 18:41.43 | foxlit | there isn't much to fix. |
| 18:42.08 | foxlit | It's just awesome that it's essentially the same as what iriel wrote in 2006. |
| 18:43.44 | foxlit | and a little sad, since the people writing ui-related wiki articles can be counted on one hand. |
| 18:47.10 | Maldivia | I remember when they added the 8-args SetTexCoord |
| 18:48.56 | foxlit | when did that happen? |
| 18:49.11 | Amarande | What I'd really like to see would be a fully updated Mists edition of WoW Programming |
| 18:49.22 | Amarande | ... except that by the time you could get it published now, we'll probably have 6.0 and the whole thing will change again :( |
| 18:49.35 | Amarande | is the next patch 5.5 or 6.0, btw? |
| 18:50.28 | Amarande | I'd suspect 6.0, but maybe they won't repeat the mistake they made with cata, and there'll be a tide-us-over raid or two (probably wyrmrest dragons or something) in the meanwhile |
| 18:50.50 | sylvanaar | what makes you think that |
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| 18:51.25 | sylvanaar | ofc they will |
| 18:51.29 | fewyn | eh |
| 18:51.34 | fewyn | i think there will be a 5.5 |
| 18:51.43 | fewyn | a non-raid patch |
| 18:51.49 | fewyn | or maybe a small raid |
| 18:52.08 | fewyn | maybe something like halion except not retarded hopefully |
| 18:52.39 | Amarande | heh, yeah, halion felt like something out of crash bandicoot :P |
| 18:59.28 | Amarande | gah, what is with prat |
| 18:59.37 | Amarande | I can't seem to copy my profile from the first character I configgled it for into another one |
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| 19:30.00 | Industrial | Can I force my Searing Totem to start attacking e.g. /petattack ? |
| 19:30.48 | Maldivia | cast flame shock on a target |
| 19:30.56 | Industrial | yeah it only assists |
| 19:30.59 | Industrial | ok |
| 19:31.10 | Industrial | its so slow :( |
| 19:31.45 | Maldivia | it hasa 1.5 sec cast timer |
| 19:32.40 | Industrial | before it recognizes and starts shooting my target. |
| 19:33.52 | Neffi | The only mechanism I can think that would trigger it would be doing: /use [@target] Searing Totem |
| 19:33.52 | Maldivia | don't know if it's still stupid vs yellow targts (ie target dummies) |
| 19:33.58 | Neffi | But I doubt that'd work |
| 19:34.40 | Maldivia | but previously it took a long time for it to start firing on dummies, unless you had flame shock on the target when the totem was summoned |
| 19:36.59 | Industrial | k |
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| 19:49.24 | Amarande | Wow, when was it announced that there will definitely not be epic gems for Mists? |
| 19:49.52 | fewyn | it was announced? |
| 19:50.04 | fewyn | i didn't know it was ~announced~ |
| 19:51.37 | Amarande | "We're not getting Epic gems this expansion, so don't expect BS to suddenly get OP the way it did in Wrath and Cata." |
| 19:51.40 | Amarande | Apparently, EJ knows something. |
| 19:52.15 | Amarande | of course, maybe the cata epic gem debacle led to Blizzard backpedaling on having them with their tail between their legs :p |
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| 19:54.03 | Amarande | Of the three installments of epic gems we've had so far, I would say that Wrath probably handled it the best and Cata the worst. |
| 19:54.38 | Amarande | Mind you in BC they were even less accessible than in Cata, but they were also less critical, except to the people who actually had ready access to them in the first place |
| 19:58.48 | fewyn | eh |
| 19:58.54 | fewyn | epic gems weren't that hard to get in TBC |
| 19:59.03 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (smcn@75-175-20-154.ptld.qwest.net) |
| 19:59.03 | fewyn | if you actually did the raids that is |
| 20:00.39 | Amarande | that's what I mean, you didn't really need them unless you were actually at that point in progression |
| 20:01.13 | Amarande | whereas later on, a side effect of the easily accessible no-attunement raiding paradigm started with Wrath became that *everyone* was "at that point in progression" |
| 20:01.24 | Amarande | and thus, presumably, for a lot of groups epic gems became expected "before you begin" auction house buys |
| 20:01.49 | Amarande | hence why it was worse done in cata than in BC, because there was more pressure in cata for more people to have them. |
| 20:02.09 | Amarande | whereas in BC, if you were just getting into raiding, epic gems were still pretty far off the radar, you were mostly thinking about getting into Kara, no matter what was current at the time |
| 20:02.51 | Amarande | in Cata ... Bastion of Twilight? Throne of the Four Winds? Blackwing Descent? Sheesh man get with the program, you hit 85, you need to be gearing for Dragon Soul! :) |
| 20:03.29 | Amarande | plus TBC never had the whole red gem duping fiasco either heh |
| 20:04.33 | Amarande | also I still think there'd have been a lot less of a tank shortage in cata if they had had buyable epic gems like wrath :S |
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| 20:10.10 | Amarande | speaking of progression and "present raid-ism", do people still LFR for 5.0 and 5.2 raids, or is everyone only doing SoO now? |
| 20:15.21 | smcn | yes |
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| 20:41.48 | foxlit | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Trigonometric_centres.png/600px-Trigonometric_centres.png << Isn't geometry awesome? |
| 20:42.32 | Neffi | Oh yeah, that really gives me a hadron |
| 20:49.11 | Amarande | I thought it was subatomic physics that gave geeks a hadron? :) |
| 20:50.20 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
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| 20:50.38 | Semlar | is not |
| 20:51.11 | Semlar | http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/wyrmrest-accord/bodypull/advanced this is semlar |
| 20:51.26 | Amarande | hrm |
| 20:51.30 | foxlit | it's semlar's european clone, then, developing the same addon? |
| 20:51.31 | Semlar | this guy is an IMPOSTER |
| 20:51.40 | Amarande | to reroll on this server where my friends are, or to fork over the $25 to haul over my mage ... |
| 20:53.21 | Semlar | i already worked through my crz issues |
| 20:53.52 | Semlar | and by that i mean i basically just disabled broadcasting if you were in a group that could potentially be on another server |
| 20:53.57 | foxlit | the post is also two days old :P |
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| 22:39.46 | Babelfish | Anyone know any good resources on how to set up a scroll frame not using FauxScroll? |
| 22:42.56 | Iriel | I found that looking at working code was the best way to get started. |
| 22:43.50 | Iriel | Long ago slouken suggested to me that scroll frames are to be avoided if possible because they stall the rendering pipeline (as they have to redefine the clipping rectangle, IIRC) - no idea if that's still the case. [I still used them, I just tried to limit it to cases when they were absolutely necessary]. |
| 22:45.27 | *** part/#wowuidev Sixen (~Sixen@173-16-1-92.client.mchsi.com) |
| 22:45.47 | Babelfish | Can you recommend any mods that would be good to look at for working examples? The blizzard UI is an absolute rabbit hole of templates. |
| 22:48.57 | Iriel | That I can't -- I used the blizzard code (and that was some time ago) |
| 22:52.35 | Shirik | gotta love that fauxscrollframe |
| 22:55.01 | foxlit | Babelfish: when you say "not using FauxScroll," what exactly is it that you want to avoid? |
| 22:56.54 | foxlit | just that particular api, or the entire scroll-by-updating-contents-of-static-widgets approach? |
| 22:57.20 | Neffi | Iriel: Surely a FauxScroll doens't do this? |
| 22:57.30 | Neffi | I thought FauxScroll didn't use a scrollframe at all |
| 22:57.50 | Babelfish | Well, the scroll-by-updating-static-widgets is made more complicated by the fact that I have two different widgets that will be in the scroll area |
| 22:57.53 | Iriel | Neffi: Right.. FauxScrollFrame doesn't use a scroll frame at all |
| 22:58.04 | Neffi | Ah, I read Babelfish's comment incorrectly |
| 22:58.25 | Iriel | Really you only need a scroll frame if you have to 'clip" a UI element |
| 22:58.45 | Iriel | Otherwise you can avoid it by fancy math and (possibly) reanchoring |
| 22:58.57 | Iriel | And when I say 'fancy math' I mean, |
| 22:59.00 | Iriel | "division" |
| 22:59.11 | Neffi | Woah there, that's getting kind of extreme |
| 22:59.11 | Iriel | not some complex differential equation or anything |
| 23:02.29 | foxlit | Anyhow, you're really just looking at having a slider and possibly a scroll frame. Figure out how much content you actually have, update slider min/max values, and throw display logic into slider's onvaluechanged. |
| 23:02.29 | Babelfish | I guess I can go that route. ScrollFrame is driving me crazy. |
| 23:03.42 | foxlit | scroll frames aren't particularly complicated either: they just render a clipped region of another frame (their scroll child) |
| 23:04.39 | Iriel | Yeah, setting up the scroll frame in the first place shouldn't be that difficult |
| 23:04.53 | Iriel | You've just got to get the parent and child set up right, and anchor/parent the contents to the right thing |
| 23:04.55 | foxlit | probably the hardest part of this is figuring out what content you actually want to show when your slider is in a given position. |
| 23:06.11 | Iriel | Even there if the contents are "small" you can just render everything and only worry about the scrollbar |
| 23:06.30 | Iriel | if the contents are large you end up wanting to dynamically show only what's visible |
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| 23:19.10 | Amarande | Iriel: that's actually one of the reasons why I tend to be on the open source side of the OSS/ARR divide when it comes to the debate on addon rights |
| 23:19.17 | Amarande | the fact that looking at working code is usually one of the best ways to learn |
| 23:19.33 | Amarande | I suppose there's the matter that *technically* looking at working ARR code helps you almost nil, because you have to reinvent the wheel anyway |
| 23:21.19 | Torhal | Amarande: Not usually if you ask permission/ |
| 23:21.38 | Torhal | That's the key thing everyone forgets. Most of us don't give a shit as long as you don't just steal code and pass it off as your own. |
| 23:21.51 | Torhal | ARR was mostly to stop WoWMatrix and its ilk. |
| 23:22.59 | Amarande | Yeah, nobody likes to be plagiarised. And some people feel that the use of their code will result in them having to field support emails that they shouldn't have to. That's true. |
| 23:24.10 | Torhal | But yeah - if someone has an issue I know I've already solved, I usually say "Look at file X in AddOn Y - I already handled that there." |
| 23:24.23 | Torhal | Or even "Just use what I did here" |
| 23:24.30 | Amarande | OTOH, I have no sympathy whatever for the mercenary interests of Curse and ZAM. :) |
| 23:24.41 | Torhal | Mercenary? o.O |
| 23:25.21 | Amarande | Yeah, I did get the vibe that part of the hate towards WoWMatrix and its ilk, although they did do ill, was that Curse and ZAM probably aren't happy in general when other addon sites come up. |
| 23:25.28 | Torhal | No |
| 23:25.45 | Torhal | WoWMatrix was crushing them every patch due to scraping pages for every client in existence. |
| 23:25.50 | Torhal | From both sites. |
| 23:26.15 | Torhal | You wanted to download something using WoWMatrix? It scraped their pages to download it from them, not WoWMatrix. |
| 23:26.34 | Torhal | And the WoWMatrix client would go in and alter AddOn files. |
| 23:26.51 | Amarande | Yeah, *that's* definitely not cool. I like to think I've got the right addon file, not something that's been doctored. |
| 23:26.54 | Torhal | Remove copyright notices, comment out lines of code that threw errors (which didn't FIX those errors) |
| 23:27.10 | Amarande | Especially since I'm probably going to end up asking the original authors here if I'm getting errors that I can't figure out. |
| 23:27.13 | Torhal | But it had nothing to do with "another site popping up" |
| 23:27.36 | Amarande | (Speaking of which, wtf can't I seem to get profiles to work with Prat, the interface window is there but it never gives me the option to load another character's settings.) |
| 23:27.44 | Torhal | They were outright stealing bandwidth and the method they used to do so put the servers under insane load. |
| 23:29.31 | Amarande | On the other hand, it would be nice to have a unified downloader client. |
| 23:29.45 | Amarande | There are still addons I use regularly that aren't on Curse, in particular. |
| 23:30.04 | Amarande | Not sure if there are ones I use regularly that aren't also on WoWI, but WoWI doesn't seem to have a convenient client :( |
| 23:30.31 | Amarande | I miss the days of anonymous FTP where you just had to pick the files you wanted from the directory with your FTP client and click once, like in my early days of gaming :( |
| 23:31.41 | Amarande | Though WoWI is also not as bad as some download sites I have used. It has a download link that actually downloads. :) |
| 23:32.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Hazal1 (~Mikkel@0x5e910d43.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 23:32.09 | Amarande | Too many files sites I use, you find the file's page, then the download link takes you to *another page* where you make the download, instead of just downloading *wallbang* |
| 23:32.26 | foxlit | ever notice that you're talking to yourself.... a lot? |
| 23:32.51 | Torhal | Constantly, which is why many people here have Amarande on ignore... |
| 23:33.11 | Amarande | foxlit: I get the impression that you dislike longish comments on IRC. |
| 23:33.25 | Torhal | You've regularly had hour-long monologues...:D |
| 23:35.19 | Amarande | Torhal, don't you wish there was a single program that would easily manage addons without having to worry about whether a single site carries them all? |
| 23:35.31 | *** part/#wowuidev foxlit (N@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:d316) |
| 23:35.40 | Amarande | 'course, that was probably why the wowmatrix kool-aid was so popular :( |
| 23:35.47 | Torhal | Indeed. |
| 23:37.38 | nebula169 | there are very few addons that don't host on curse |
| 23:37.56 | Amarande | nebula: yeah, the main ones I find I can't get there are Aranarth's Data Broker addons |
| 23:38.12 | Amarande | I still have not found anything on Curse to my liking to replace his Guild/Friends tracker, in particular |
| 23:38.30 | Amarande | (which in turn is among ones I've used most similar to GuildFu/FriendsFu, which I badly missed after FuBar lost support) |
| 23:38.44 | nebula169 | yea, i use that |
| 23:38.57 | Amarande | I used his Reputations addon for a long time, too. |
| 23:39.03 | nebula169 | for the few wowi addons that aren't on curse, i just have them favorited and manually update |
| 23:39.25 | Amarande | and a couple others before Mists, but they weren't updated well (although the XP addon usually just required editing a couple numbers in the .lua to change the level cap) and I've since found replacements |
| 23:39.43 | Amarande | I do like that if you type in the exact name of an addon on wowi, you generally go straight to that page :) |
| 23:40.41 | Amarande | Which is the main thing I've hated about the switch from the old school FTP gaming downloads to modern ones. Used to be, log into anon FTP site, find folder, download file. Most sites now it's a four-step, go to the main page, go to the search results page, go to the file's page, then go to a SEPARATE page to make the download from |
| 23:40.50 | Amarande | WoWI skips the second and fourth of those, in particular. :) |
| 23:40.59 | Iriel | Because these days most sites are in part ad supported |
| 23:41.06 | Iriel | and they want to expand their ad presentation surface area |
| 23:41.36 | Amarande | Iriel: yeah, that's why I wondered whether Curse and ZAM management had a role in pressuring people to switch from open source to ARR when wowmatrix and ten ton hammer were issues |
| 23:41.54 | Amarande | that it wasn't *just* about the piracy or bandwidth theft, that it was also seeking to get people to choose licences that limit the number of distribution points |
| 23:41.59 | Torhal | There was no pressuring. |
| 23:42.09 | Cairenn | Okay, I'm done reading without responding .... there was no 'pressure' |
| 23:42.15 | Torhal | Go back and read the threads from '08 on WoWI and WoWAce |
| 23:42.20 | Cairenn | And I'm very displeased by the implication |
| 23:42.58 | Cairenn | implication nothing, the outright statements ... unless you know wtf you are talking about, how about you keep your mouth shut |
| 23:43.06 | Torhal | And Ten Ton Hammer didn't give a damn about ARR. |
| 23:43.13 | Cairenn | nor did Wowmatrix |
| 23:43.15 | Amarande | Torhal: Yeah, Ten Ton Hammer was just like WoWMatrix. |
| 23:43.46 | Amarande | Ten Ton Hammer are kind of full of themselves in a very bad way. Like registered trademarking GearScore ... yeah, because one totally wants to formally register one's association with an addon that helped make many people's game less fun, LOL |
| 23:43.49 | Torhal | That's why they are no longer relevant. Not because of pressure from other companies. |
| 23:44.06 | Torhal | …but because they were shitty money-grubbing bastards. |
| 23:44.32 | Torhal | The authors (myself included) don't take kindly to those tactics. |
| 23:44.44 | Torhal | So we upload to places we trust. |
| 23:44.50 | Torhal | I work for Curse, yet I host on WoWInterface. |
| 23:45.10 | Cairenn | and there are folks that work for WoWI, that host on Curse |
| 23:46.37 | Amarande | You guys need a unified download client deal. :) |
| 23:46.54 | Cairenn | It was attempted. One side didn't want to play along. |
| 23:47.02 | Amarande | Which would probably also get rid of any wowmatrix style monkeying, too, since most of the motive from the user end would be gone, too |
| 23:51.32 | Amarande | Dang. :( |
| 23:53.01 | Torhal | There have been some independent programs which tried to do this. They obtained a nice following before the person who was writing it would eventually disappear. |
| 23:53.29 | Torhal | Here's the latest: http://www.wootbit.com/ |
| 23:53.33 | Gnarfoz | tried to do what |
| 23:53.35 | Torhal | Haven't heard a peep in six months. |
| 23:53.41 | Torhal | Gnarfoz: Be a unified site client. |
| 23:53.41 | Gnarfoz | why are you people always talking to yourselves?! :P |
| 23:53.49 | Amarande | Yeah, the addon world is definitely littered with projects that people didn't continue. :( |
| 23:53.50 | Torhal | Gnarfoz: Because you have Amarande on ignore. |
| 23:53.55 | Gnarfoz | I know! |
| 23:54.13 | Amarande | I usually notice this when a new expansion comes out and several of the addons that I relied on in the previous expansion are no longer being updated. |
| 23:54.31 | Amarande | Murphy's Law of course usually also has these being the only decent addons for the purpose, as well. I hate expansion pre-patch day. :) |
| 23:54.37 | Gnarfoz | it's just so funny to watch, for 2 days now there's been a constant stream of, well, apparent-monologues :D |
| 23:54.53 | xyphoid | don't worry, even without the ignore, you still see monologues |
| 23:55.00 | Torhal | xyphoid: Just more of them. |
| 23:55.47 | Amarande | That and expansion pre-patch day usually means loads of lag from the overloaded servers, and having to relearn the entire game from scratch. Oftentimes also balance changes that make it almost impossible to carry on raiding, as I remember all too well from 4.0.1. |
| 23:56.20 | Amarande | (We were 10/12H in ICC10, then 4.0.1 hit and we found that the balance changes made us pretty much throw in the towel, as I recall) |
| 23:56.45 | nebula169 | using someone else's bandwidth and showing your own ads sounds like something that would end up short lived >.> |
| 23:57.26 | Gnarfoz | Mega! :P |
| 23:57.33 | Amarande | nebula: on large scales, it also brings in the Powers That Be to a level that sometimes has been known to cause truly insane levels of long-term disruption, too |
| 23:57.40 | Amarande | like that dns malware, what was it called |
| 23:58.12 | Amarande | the one where the feds had to keep running DNS servers for infected people because it was so widespread, leading to those "you may lose internet access in june" emails |
| 23:59.57 | Amarande | but yeah I remember it being all part of a scheme to spoof ad servers' DNS to do exactly that on a large scale, by causing people to get their usual pages but the ads to be served by the fradulent network |
