| 00:05.22 | kd3 | ooh. that's alarming |
| 00:05.28 | kd3 | the new ptr build's broken in wine |
| 00:05.49 | End | are you on your mage or whatever kaythreedee is? |
| 00:06.07 | kd3 | not even getting that far |
| 00:06.15 | End | oh ok then nevermind |
| 00:06.41 | kd3 | http://pastebin.com/5RaE3ZYJ |
| 00:06.44 | kd3 | tries 32-bit mode |
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| 00:27.15 | MysticalOS | kd3, we are discussing that in wowace, it's a faction bug |
| 00:27.16 | MysticalOS | :\ |
| 00:27.33 | kd3 | I'm not even making it to the login screen |
| 00:28.00 | kd3 | just synched/rebuilt wine from git, didn't help |
| 00:28.58 | MysticalOS | use a char that doesn't know any npcs |
| 00:29.12 | MysticalOS | http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9377148384 |
| 00:29.16 | MysticalOS | npc factions, like nat pagle |
| 00:29.27 | End | kd3's issue isn't related to that |
| 00:29.28 | MysticalOS | or at least a char where they are inactive |
| 00:29.31 | MysticalOS | ah |
| 00:29.31 | kd3 | no no, my crash is happening on startup |
| 00:29.33 | kd3 | before I even log in |
| 00:29.51 | MysticalOS | it's a busted build all around |
| 00:29.52 | MysticalOS | :\ |
| 00:30.01 | pompy | any naruto fans: http://nerdreactor.com/2013/06/27/japanese-rice-paddy-art/ |
| 00:52.09 | kd3 | emails away, finally |
| 00:59.46 | karl_w_w | http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1314471-Our-raid-leader-made-someone-cry?p=21587751&viewfull=1#post21587751 lolol |
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| 01:20.57 | Neffi | karl_w_w: I lol'd heartily |
| 01:21.04 | Primer | I did not |
| 01:22.18 | Neffi | I could imagine the situation. Melodramatic raid leaders are part of the reason I quit doing PvE altogether early in the game. |
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| 04:39.48 | pompy | this happened http://kotaku.com/at-least-two-sex-hotlines-survived-the-last-of-us-apoc-513940450 |
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| 05:07.43 | Cairenn | |Jelly| OMFG, great link! |
| 05:07.58 | Cairenn | Definitely not like the Partridge Family, though |
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| 06:25.00 | Ackis | anyone here a berserk fan? |
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| 06:30.51 | Ackis | hey bluspacecow |
| 06:30.58 | Ackis | apparently Dr Who is Doctor Who |
| 06:31.15 | bluspacecow | wat |
| 06:41.05 | karl_w_w | when's blizzcon? september |
| 06:41.11 | karl_w_w | ? |
| 06:41.38 | zenzio | if only someone had put it in the topic |
| 06:44.29 | Cairenn | *snark* |
| 06:52.12 | Sintacks | throws kittens at Cairenn |
| 06:52.20 | Cairenn | catches |
| 06:53.04 | Fisker | i guess that clears up why Symantec's support for Linux is shit |
| 06:53.18 | Fisker | Turns out that the .cfg files it uses seems to be lines of registry entries |
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| 07:23.04 | karl_w_w | s/'s support for Linux// |
| 07:23.46 | karl_w_w | that woulda made more sense if I could read properly |
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| 07:57.26 | bluspacecow | http://screen.yahoo.com/sheep-scares-wolf-away-002856618.html |
| 07:58.20 | bluspacecow | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIKB5JAyqiw |
| 07:58.31 | bluspacecow | In Norway Sheep chase wolf |
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| 08:11.40 | bluspacecow | http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/austriadeath.asp |
| 08:11.54 | bluspacecow | Jackie Chan's all like LOL. I ain't dead :3 |
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| 08:44.00 | karl_w_w | well that's annoying, you can't stop download on youtube videos any more |
| 08:44.47 | nebula169 | but all those "omg to fap to the thumbnail right click and do stop download!" |
| 08:44.55 | nebula169 | comments* |
| 09:04.41 | karl_w_w | http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/263283-ghostcrawler-pregnant-with-zarhyms-baby/ lol |
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| 09:15.27 | *** topic/#wowuidev is http://pastebin.com || 5.3.x ToC: 50300 || #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting || Battletags: http://goo.gl/2bm7n || This channel is logged, via purl || BlizzCon! Nov. 8-9 || Happy Birthday Alestane! |
| 09:22.41 | Semlar | is there a limit to how large a number i can store, i'm trying to get the average damage for a spell by just adding up the damage from every cast and dividing by the number of casts |
| 09:23.26 | nevcairiel | not really a limit, its a double precision floating point, so at a certain size it gets inaccurate in the low bits |
| 09:23.35 | nevcairiel | well, and i guess there is a upper limit |
| 09:23.41 | nevcairiel | but its extremely high |
| 09:23.45 | Semlar | should i stop tracking after a certain point |
| 09:24.25 | Semlar | i'm sure i only need to observe a certain number of casts before i get a good enough average |
| 09:25.05 | Semlar | well, i'm tracking this for mob abilities |
| 09:25.52 | Semlar | i'm not sure if i should bother recording the smallest and largest observed damages or just the average |
| 09:26.52 | Semlar | unless i can factor in mitigation |
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| 09:41.15 | karl_w_w | there is a limit to what wow can handle but it's too high to be a problem |
| 09:42.16 | karl_w_w | I dont remember how big it was when I tested, but we're talking 10^1000 |
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| 09:50.05 | Semlar | i figured it probably wouldn't be an issue |
| 09:55.01 | nevcairiel | like i said, its a double precision floating point |
| 09:55.06 | nevcairiel | its limits are documented |
| 09:56.37 | nevcairiel | the limit is something like 2^1023 |
| 09:58.04 | nevcairiel | lua> 2^1023 |
| 09:58.04 | lua_bot | nevcairiel: 8.9884656743116e+307 |
| 09:58.06 | nevcairiel | lua> 2^1024 |
| 09:58.07 | lua_bot | nevcairiel: inf |
| 09:58.12 | nevcairiel | yeah somewhere in that area |
| 10:00.21 | karl_w_w | lua>2^1023+1 |
| 10:00.21 | lua_bot | karl_w_w: 8.9884656743116e+307 |
| 10:00.25 | karl_w_w | :P |
| 10:00.43 | karl_w_w | lua>2^1024-1 |
| 10:00.44 | lua_bot | karl_w_w: inf |
| 10:00.56 | karl_w_w | oh that wouldnt work |
| 10:01.40 | nevcairiel | once its inf, it remains inf |
| 10:01.45 | karl_w_w | yeah |
| 10:02.01 | karl_w_w | lua> (2^1023-1)*2 |
| 10:02.01 | lua_bot | karl_w_w: inf |
| 10:02.44 | karl_w_w | so it truly is somewhere in between, which seems odd |
| 10:03.04 | nevcairiel | the maximum exponent is 1023 |
| 10:03.12 | nevcairiel | now you can also max out the mantissa |
| 10:03.17 | nevcairiel | makes perfect sense |
| 10:03.42 | nevcairiel | maximum would be something like 1.999999999999999999999 * 2^1023 |
| 10:04.01 | nevcairiel | lua> 1.999999999999999999999 * 2^1023 |
| 10:04.01 | lua_bot | nevcairiel: inf |
| 10:04.07 | nevcairiel | lua> 1.9 * 2^1023 |
| 10:04.08 | lua_bot | nevcairiel: 1.7078084781192e+308 |
| 10:04.12 | nevcairiel | lua> 1.999 * 2^1023 |
| 10:04.13 | lua_bot | nevcairiel: 1.7967942882949e+308 |
| 10:04.15 | nevcairiel | lua> 1.99999 * 2^1023 |
| 10:04.16 | lua_bot | nevcairiel: 1.7976841463966e+308 |
| 10:04.19 | nevcairiel | lua> 1.9999999 * 2^1023 |
| 10:04.19 | lua_bot | nevcairiel: 1.7976930449777e+308 |
| 10:04.24 | nevcairiel | lua> 1.9999999999 * 2^1023 |
| 10:04.25 | lua_bot | nevcairiel: 1.7976931347724e+308 |
| 10:04.33 | nevcairiel | well you get it =) |
| 10:05.12 | karl_w_w | = pretty close |
| 10:11.19 | Stanzilla | I blame magnets |
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| 11:10.59 | Stanzilla | @sublimehq: Sublime Text 3 public beta is out now - http://t.co/un2oCN7liQ |
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| 13:09.30 | bluspacecow | "what I did I did without choice … for the sake of peace and sanity" |
| 13:09.40 | bluspacecow | *chills on rewatching* |
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| 13:11.53 | karl_w_w | gives bluspacecow a hot water bottle |
| 13:12.02 | bluspacecow | :3 |
| 13:14.25 | bluspacecow | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:14.43 | bluspacecow | i go to log into the forums …. and the login box is in korean! |
| 13:14.45 | bluspacecow | LOL |
| 13:17.36 | Fisker | hey bluspacecow |
| 13:17.38 | Fisker | are you a jerk? |
| 13:17.41 | Fisker | yep |
| 13:17.42 | Fisker | bye |
| 13:17.48 | bluspacecow | NOPE |
| 13:17.51 | bluspacecow | i am |
| 13:17.52 | bluspacecow | a |
| 13:17.56 | bluspacecow | jersk |
| 13:18.07 | Fisker | also a jersk |
| 13:22.36 | pompy | :tradingcard: Steam Steam Emoticon |
| 13:22.46 | pompy | hm, it looks blank n that looks like a variable. |
| 13:24.45 | NickG365 | I was thinking it was a bit weird when that showed up in my inventory, too, but now that I look at it again, I think it's an actual usable emoticon in Steam chats. |
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| 13:35.40 | VIad | sometimes living in Oslo makes me feel so helpless when it comes to buying clothes and shoes that fit good :P |
| 13:36.17 | VIad | the stock is usually hip junk style clothes with really limited sizes :P |
| 13:36.52 | VIad | I imagine other larger countries probably have more selection of various sizes, being that they have more population |
| 13:36.53 | karl_w_w | http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/27/teenager-justin-carter-facebook-comment-jail_n_3512025.html |
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| 13:38.12 | VIad | I see the justice system works flawlessly - catching the wrong people, as usual. |
| 13:38.39 | Kalrth | You aren't innocent if you aren't rich |
| 13:38.57 | VIad | indeed |
| 13:39.05 | VIad | nice use of sarcasm Kalrth :P |
| 13:39.11 | Kalrth | :) |
| 13:39.30 | karl_w_w | it was right he was arrested |
| 13:39.37 | Kalrth | of course, posting "Oh yeah, I'm real messed up in the head, I'm going to go shoot up a school full of kids and eat their still, beating hearts" on twitter isn't the brightest thing to do |
| 13:39.39 | karl_w_w | for crimes against punctuation |
| 13:39.49 | Kalrth | but teenagers aren't known to make bright decisision |
| 13:39.55 | Kalrth | decisions* |
| 13:40.04 | VIad | I agree his choice of words wasn't really that funny to begin with but it reeks of standard internet posts, nothing I'd care about |
| 13:40.08 | VIad | lol karl |
| 13:40.53 | Kalrth | wut u meen karlww ur thk u funy u shud us twitr mor oftn so u cn se how hrd it iz |
| 13:42.39 | karl_w_w | it was facebook |
| 13:42.54 | karl_w_w | suck it |
| 13:42.55 | VIad | people still use facebook? |
| 13:42.56 | karl_w_w | :P |
| 13:43.16 | VIad | btw even if government logs our data, wouldn't it be fixed by using certificates and encryption? :P |
| 13:43.30 | karl_w_w | oh woops I said suck it, now I'm gonna be sent to jail for threatening sexual harrassment |
| 13:44.14 | karl_w_w | no VIad |
| 13:44.18 | VIad | why? |
| 13:44.26 | Kraps | ~ping |
| 13:44.26 | purl | ~pong |
| 13:44.29 | VIad | even if government logs the traffic, they don't log it unencrypted |
| 13:44.38 | karl_w_w | because they get the data from the people who hold it, not by intercepting the traffic |
| 13:44.48 | VIad | I thought they intercept traffic |
| 13:45.01 | karl_w_w | maybe they do that as well |
| 13:45.04 | karl_w_w | who knows |
| 13:45.06 | VIad | because if I run my own mail server |
| 13:45.07 | VIad | :P |
| 13:45.13 | VIad | and we use it for terrorist mails |
| 13:45.17 | VIad | see what I am getting at |
| 13:45.31 | NickG365 | Mail is unencrypted though, unless you explicitly encrypt it with something like PGP/GPG. |
| 13:45.31 | VIad | but still even if they log the traffic, it's raw packets, what if we use encryption and such |
| 13:45.50 | VIad | if we encrypt then it's harder to read the raw data |
| 13:46.00 | VIad | imagine torrents working over encryption |
| 13:46.10 | karl_w_w | yes email is the most insecure thing in the world |
| 13:46.15 | VIad | how can they trace if each p2p has their own cert and encryption |
| 13:46.22 | Kraps | why would freedom of speech help this kid |
| 13:46.28 | Kalrth | torrents work over encryption, the problem is the public tracker |
| 13:46.37 | Kraps | terroristic threats arent protected |
| 13:46.45 | NickG365 | Torrents can be transferred with encryption, too. Still has a source/dest IP though. |
| 13:46.48 | Kalrth | most torrent clients use encrption today, heh |
| 13:47.19 | NickG365 | But yeah, it's called Prism because they split a fiber optic cable at AT&T for most of this data they say they have. |
| 13:47.26 | NickG365 | That's what I've heard at least. |
| 13:47.53 | karl_w_w | I once prismed a guy |
| 13:48.10 | NickG365 | orly? |
| 13:48.39 | karl_w_w | he said I was the best he ever had |
| 13:48.45 | VIad | prism, sounds like prison |
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| 14:27.02 | nevcairiel | you do know that this is not only a name, but also a normal english word? :p |
| 14:40.30 | VIad | nevcairiel: prism is an acronym, no? |
| 14:40.42 | Stanzilla | prism is a prism |
| 14:40.48 | VIad | not in this context |
| 14:41.03 | Stanzilla | look at what he said |
| 14:41.07 | Stanzilla | that's what he meant |
| 14:41.18 | nevcairiel | Planning Tool for Resource Integration, Synchronization, and Management |
| 14:41.24 | nevcairiel | or something |
| 14:42.09 | VIad | I wonder the real deal behind these snooping programs |
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| 14:52.50 | Unkle | STATION! |
| 14:55.20 | Fisker | hey nevcairiel |
| 14:55.27 | nevcairiel | hey Fisker |
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| 15:07.31 | Fisker | :) |
| 15:13.49 | Kraps | haha http://shop.wikimedia.org/ |
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| 15:29.20 | TC-Work | "function addEamil($email){" /rage |
| 15:29.57 | Unkle | TC-Work: Hanging is too good for 'em. |
| 15:30.24 | TC-Work | Unkle: I agree, but he was let go last oct. |
| 15:31.31 | TC-Work | / is a sengall user lis wich pase a fuall email or user name |
| 15:31.31 | TC-Work | / tret them as the same thing |
| 15:31.31 | TC-Work | / sompadiball with a array input |
| 15:31.38 | TC-Work | I mean look at it. LOOK AT IT! |
| 15:33.24 | Unkle | ESL? |
| 15:34.02 | TC-Work | It's possible but I don't think so. His dad worked here as well and he had no issues. |
| 15:34.26 | TC-Work | They got let go on the same day which was kinda ouch. |
| 15:34.38 | Unkle | So, just terrible at language in general. That kind of inability to spell riddles code with bizarre errors. |
| 15:35.05 | TC-Work | Actually the code works nearly flawlesslty. It's just that it is so hard to follow itl |
| 15:35.07 | TC-Work | it.* |
| 15:46.16 | Kalroth | nearly flawlessly, eh? |
| 15:46.45 | TC-Work | It it was flawless I would not have to go poking and hurting my brain |
| 15:47.04 | TC-Work | I already don't know what I am doing, his spelling is not helping. |
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| 16:29.38 | Neffi | TC-Work: Anything WTF worthy? |
| 16:29.52 | TC-Work | Neffi: hmm? |
| 16:30.01 | Neffi | In the aforementioned code |
| 16:30.18 | Neffi | The comments look pretty bad, there must be a gem in there worthy of submission |
| 16:31.02 | TC-Work | Neffi: No, it's all quite normal and well coded with the exception of the spelling. |
| 16:31.13 | TC-Work | Which makes baby jesus cry. |
| 16:31.22 | Neffi | Maybe he's horribly dyslexic? |
| 16:31.32 | Neffi | Or maybe he codes sober and then back-comments everything while stoned |
| 16:31.50 | VIad | what coding TC-Work? |
| 16:31.54 | TC-Work | no, because the code spelling is just as fubar |
| 16:32.00 | TC-Work | except for API's and whatnot. |
| 16:32.14 | Neffi | Dyslexia could explain it |
| 16:32.28 | TC-Work | No, no it could not. Go read that comment section again. |
| 16:32.30 | Neffi | But that shit looks terrible |
| 16:32.47 | Neffi | Dyslexia ranges from mild to pretty damn severe |
| 16:33.12 | Neffi | There are people who are almost completely incapable of written language, but otherwise have normal cognitive function |
| 16:33.40 | Torhal | TC-Work: That isn't spelling. That's Hooked on Phonics. |
| 16:33.49 | TC-Work | It does specify reading. |
| 16:34.12 | VIad | sigh |
| 16:34.38 | VIad | no clue what project you talk about, only that there are issues with spelling |
| 16:35.09 | TC-Work | Torhal: I think i would prefer the code if it was //yo, dis email goes to all da bitches in da house or just one bitch. |
| 16:35.28 | Torhal | That's Ebonics. Definitely more legible. |
| 16:37.57 | Neffi | Well if his code is functional and contains no WTFs, you can't assume he's too stupid to manage writing. I mean, txtspeak is one thing, his comments are another. |
| 16:38.12 | Neffi | He seems to have a legitimate handicap if you ask me |
| 16:39.09 | Neffi | VIad: .. |
| 16:39.12 | VIad | is it Torhals NPCScan? |
| 16:39.18 | Neffi | <TC-Work> / is a sengall user lis wich pase a fuall email or user name |
| 16:39.19 | Neffi | <TC-Work> / tret them as the same thing |
| 16:39.19 | Neffi | <TC-Work> / sompadiball with a array input |
| 16:39.19 | Neffi | <TC-Work> I mean look at it. LOOK AT IT! |
| 16:39.34 | Neffi | Something TC is working on at work it seems |
| 16:39.45 | VIad | aaah |
| 16:39.57 | VIad | addEamil |
| 16:39.58 | VIad | :P |
| 16:40.00 | Neffi | yeah |
| 16:40.27 | VIad | isn't proper syntax using /** */ before functions and classes too, and explaining the input and output |
| 16:40.42 | VIad | spellchecking being one of the things you also do ofc |
| 16:40.44 | Neffi | Speaking of, are there any major outstanding issues with NPCScan, or are you taking it over for general future upkeep? <- Torhal |
| 16:41.36 | Torhal | Neffi: I'm having issues getting PyV8 to compile either via pip or manually using the source code. |
| 16:41.56 | Neffi | Wait, what? |
| 16:42.03 | VIad | TC-Work: is what you pasted php? |
| 16:42.09 | TC-Work | Yes |
| 16:42.14 | Torhal | That's one of the Python libs required for the datamining stuff. So I'll either continue bashing my head over it or figure out what the current stuff is doing and write a replacement. |
| 16:42.17 | Neffi | What does NPCScan have to do with Python |
| 16:42.30 | VIad | gawd, no wonder Adys and nevcairiel hate php if people like that code php :( |
| 16:42.45 | Unkle | php is the devils work |
| 16:43.04 | VIad | or are the people doing the devils work? |
| 16:43.08 | Neffi | Well doesn't it really just require a list of rare NPC IDs? Writing a Wowhead scraper for that shouldnt take as long as digging apart existing code |
| 16:44.06 | VIad | Torhal has to do much more than just update the list of ids, the addon needs a better framework if you ask me. |
| 16:44.27 | Torhal | Neffi: I wanted to get the existing tool working so I could do the update. I haven't actually looked at what the tool is doing, though, but I'll do so this weekend to see if there's a simpler way of going about it. It's using like five friggin' Python libs at the moment; PyV8, beautifulsoup, lupa, and something else. |
| 16:44.56 | Torhal | lupa is for reading Lua SavedVariables |
| 16:45.12 | Neffi | At the heart, it's methodology is simple. Probe tooltips for a set of known IDs given the current player location. If it's more than a meg of code, I'd just write something new TBH. |
| 16:45.16 | Torhal | NPCScan also requires a patched version of Routes (don't ask, I'll be looking at replacing that requirement) |
| 16:45.46 | Neffi | Wait, it embeds Routes? |
| 16:45.50 | Torhal | No |
| 16:45.58 | bluspacecow | meh |
| 16:45.58 | Torhal | The datamining stuff uses it for the overlay stuff. |
| 16:46.00 | Neffi | Why the fuck anyway? |
| 16:46.04 | Torhal | I know |
| 16:46.06 | Torhal | Heh |
| 16:46.11 | bluspacecow | complete REWRITE TIME |
| 16:46.15 | bluspacecow | WITH BUNNIES |
| 16:46.15 | Torhal | I'm thinking this is just way over-engineered |
| 16:46.23 | Neffi | I havent looked at the code, but I'm inching that way blu |
| 16:46.35 | Torhal | I've been busy though, and just wanted to pop out an update since there hasn't been one since October |
| 16:46.45 | Neffi | Nothing annoys me more than when code needs a patched version of somebody else's code just to work |
| 16:46.57 | Torhal | But looks like I need to dig in and assess the situation first. |
| 16:47.12 | Neffi | I almost quit using Rockbox just because they demand their own patched GCC to compile it |
| 16:47.20 | Torhal | Dafuq? |
| 16:47.31 | bluspacecow | wtf |
| 16:47.36 | Torhal | How do you write code that requires a custom compiler?!? |
| 16:47.42 | Neffi | I don't compile it myself, but things like that always make me severely question the quality of code |
| 16:48.01 | Neffi | It doesnt help that they suck at tracking down bugs. |
| 16:48.07 | bluspacecow | GCC wasn't compiling it right ! so instead of fixing it so it does compile they wrote their own custom GCC so it would! |
| 16:48.11 | bluspacecow | ohgodwhy |
| 16:48.18 | VIad | why is gcc so much bigger on windows than on linux? |
| 16:48.20 | Torhal | NIH. |
| 16:48.39 | Lopeppeppy | Penguins |
| 16:49.16 | Neffi | VIad: why is gcc so big? <- ftfy |
| 16:50.12 | VIad | when I install ubuntu I only need to download like 50 mb of data to be able to compile using gcc |
| 16:50.33 | VIad | on windows it must download a lot of stuff |
| 16:51.11 | Neffi | I don't know ass about that, but I might make a guess that Linux distros already include a lot of necessary code by default, whereas Windows wouldn't |
| 16:51.30 | Neffi | Look up the raw dependencies for GCC and maybe you'll find you already have most of it |
| 16:52.01 | Neffi | Or start writing your code to compile cleanly cross-toolchain and switch to LLVM |
| 16:53.07 | VIad | yeah |
| 16:54.18 | VIad | btw I dont think that boat would be able to fly, like it does in the avengers movie :P |
| 16:54.26 | VIad | still movies are fun |
| 16:55.04 | VIad | btw anyone knows clonezilla? |
| 16:55.19 | VIad | I've used it for a lot of things, but had a question about a specific situation, if it would work :P |
| 16:55.39 | TC-Work | try it? |
| 16:55.49 | VIad | I dont wanna risk my private data :P |
| 16:56.04 | VIad | I have two drives, one is on 1t the new on 3t and I wish to transfer the contents from 1t to the 3t |
| 16:56.21 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~nevin@c-174-63-97-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 16:56.21 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 16:56.30 | kd3 | `mv /path/to/1t/* /path/to/3t` |
| 16:56.35 | VIad | issue is that the 3t probably uses another partition lookup table format than the 1t |
| 16:56.47 | TC-Work | yea, whats wrong with a simple copy |
| 16:57.05 | Fisker | hey kd3 |
| 16:57.06 | Fisker | :) |
| 16:57.10 | kd3 | 'lo |
| 16:57.22 | VIad | clonezilla can clone, but can it move data from one drive to another, like a "mv" command :P |
| 16:57.34 | VIad | can't move the data while booted, a lot of folders are used by the system |
| 16:57.44 | bluspacecow | ha ha watching Youtube videos of Marathon |
| 16:57.50 | bluspacecow | old school gaming LOL |
| 16:58.08 | kd3 | then copy it, change your bootloader to point to the new drive, reboot to it and wipe the old one? |
| 16:58.50 | TC-Work | or boot into a live cd and move it. |
| 16:59.06 | TC-Work | but if it is an OS i would not do a simple copy |
| 16:59.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Schnaks (~Schnaks@pD95890D1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:59.46 | VIad | I have my user profile on D: and windows on C: |
| 16:59.52 | VIad | so it's just my userprofile :) |
| 17:00.03 | VIad | after boot up I'd have to also change the letter |
| 17:00.34 | VIad | kind of need to do this outside of windows, maybe I should get some diagnostic boot cd thingy that supports modifying the registry without actually running the OS |
| 17:02.02 | Fisker | hey bluspacecow |
| 17:02.05 | VIad | cygwin 1.3gb :D |
| 17:02.12 | Neffi | A simple copy should be fine on *nix as long as you don't fuck up your bootloader |
| 17:02.15 | bluspacecow | herro! |
| 17:02.35 | Neffi | Windows 7 has a decent imaging tool built in |
| 17:02.42 | Neffi | Control Panel -> backup and recovery |
| 17:03.12 | Neffi | Manages live system fine and backs up boot and EFI data AFAIK. Google Windows 7 system image |
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| 17:21.30 | VIad | char *s = ""; |
| 17:21.33 | VIad | sounds so risky |
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| 17:47.12 | Kraps | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:47.17 | Kraps | wow |
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| 18:05.34 | Silvanas | do inconcluside results to a table.sort() custom function cause it to give an "invalid order function" error ? |
| 18:06.31 | Silvanas | i am comparing player attence but i have a lot of players at 100% so there is no real result with value is higher |
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| 18:12.43 | Maldivia | Silvanas: just secondary sort by player name |
| 18:16.34 | Grivvel | Silvanas: I don't *think* it will error, but it won't be a stable sort. |
| 18:17.40 | Silvanas | yeh sadly the names are in a different table that icant acces at that point, but i gues i have to :D |
| 18:18.35 | Grivvel | Silvanas: Just use anything consistent. Unit tokens/GUIDs/etc. |
| 18:18.49 | Grivvel | I think the default raid frames use unit tokens as a last resort |
| 18:20.04 | Neffi | Silvanas: "do inconcluside results to a table.sort() custom function cause it to give an "invalid order function" error ?" <- In my experience no. Test it out on some dummy data. |
| 18:20.45 | Neffi | Having a unique fallback like GUID should ensure no issue |
| 18:26.12 | Maldivia | well, if sortmethod(a, b) = true = sortmethod(b, a), then you can end up in endless loops etc, which it prevents by giving you the invalid order function error |
| 18:29.17 | *** join/#wowuidev raffy (~raffy@76.91.24.36) |
| 18:29.29 | Maldivia | (as far as I remember, anyway) |
| 18:29.37 | Grivvel | Doesn't Lua use qsort? |
| 18:30.17 | Grivvel | Pretty sure it uses qsort in which case it wouldn't crash on weak ordering, but would be inconsistent |
| 18:30.47 | alestane | table.sort is backed with an in-place quick-sort algorithm. |
| 18:31.00 | alestane | Implemented in C. |
| 18:31.29 | Silvanas | well thne i dont realy know why my sorting fucntion crashes :/ |
| 18:32.54 | alestane | Silvanas: can it return a non-boolean? I've never checked that. |
| 18:34.41 | Grivvel | Silvanas: Oh, you know what. Assuming WoW uses the default sort function, it looks like it does do a validation pass to make sure it's well-ordered. |
| 18:34.48 | alestane | No, it shouldn't care, it should resolve it as any Lua boolean check. |
| 18:35.18 | Maldivia | well, everyting is true then, if you return anything else than true/false/nil |
| 18:35.31 | Maldivia | (so no return a-b) |
| 18:35.32 | Grivvel | alestane: Take a look at auxsort at http://www.lua.org/source/5.1/ltablib.c.html |
| 18:35.45 | alestane | I was just looking at that function. |
| 18:35.51 | alestane | And at sort_comp |
| 18:36.15 | alestane | It uses lua_toboolean, so it doesn't care about the actual return type of the function. |
| 18:36.36 | Grivvel | alestane: Right, but if you return true for sortfunc(a,b) and true for sortfunc(b,a), it'll throw an error |
| 18:36.36 | Maldivia | alestane: except if you think 0 is false :) |
| 18:36.57 | Silvanas | i got my sorting issue reproduceable |
| 18:36.59 | Silvanas | http://pastebin.com/aUgTx1zg |
| 18:37.05 | alestane | Then you're confused, because in Lua it isn't. |
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| 18:38.45 | Silvanas | the sorting function fails when i do a return not <result> |
| 18:39.02 | Silvanas | that simpel not, i though it would just invert the search result, causes it to error |
| 18:39.34 | Grivvel | It's because the sort function should represent <=. |
| 18:39.49 | Grivvel | If everything is the same number, having 100 <= 100 <= 100 works |
| 18:40.06 | Grivvel | But 100 (not <=) 100 (not <=) 100 doesn't |
| 18:41.16 | Grivvel | Sorry, >= actually. But the point stands. |
| 18:41.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Julith (~julith@i577B7031.versanet.de) |
| 18:41.55 | nevcairiel | but if he uses "a < b" and then does "not (a < b)", that would be the same as "a >= b", wouldn't it? :d |
| 18:41.58 | Silvanas | i understand what you mean but dont see how 'not a < b' is any different then 'a > b' |
| 18:42.33 | Grivvel | Silvanas: Because the difference is "<=" vs ">", not "<" vs ">" |
| 18:43.35 | Grivvel | If they're equal, you should return false. |
| 18:43.58 | Silvanas | oke |
| 18:44.27 | Silvanas | i see now indeed if i chance the 'not a < b' to 'a >= b' i get the same error |
| 18:44.29 | Grivvel | Either way though, you'll still be better off finding *some* well-ordered operation |
| 18:45.47 | Silvanas | thanks :D |
| 19:14.41 | Silvanas | they should add a extra boolean to table.sort() for inverse sorting :D |
| 19:18.11 | Lopeppeppy | And now, I torment you with old old music. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K16fG1sDagU |
| 19:31.06 | Cairenn | ROFL! |
| 19:33.32 | Unkle | One of his best. |
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| 19:55.24 | Cairenn | Lyre is highly amused by it. |
| 20:01.03 | Neffi | I wonder how WoW's world would look: http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/photoshop/8/6/0/188860_v1.jpg |
| 20:01.44 | Neffi | Note: That doesn't include Blackreach which is estimated at around.. |
| 20:01.54 | Neffi | 2 square km I believe it was |
| 20:02.34 | Neffi | Sorry, Blackreach is 4 square miles |
| 20:03.11 | Neffi | Does anyone know of any tools I might use for measuring land area within WoW? |
| 20:07.01 | Unkle | And now, thanks to Lopeppeppy, I'm quietly singing "The day the squirrel went berserk..." while I work. |
| 20:07.25 | Grivvel | WoW is huge. Everyone IN WoW is huge. Remember that your base combat reach is 5 meters/yards :P |
| 20:07.45 | Lopeppeppy | It was a fight for survival... |
| 20:08.39 | Neffi | Well, I would probably correct the size of the landscape against the size of the human race |
| 20:08.57 | Neffi | I dont think the meter/yd in WoW (which are the same thing) are accurate |
| 20:09.12 | Mr_Rabies | azerothian yards aren't around 3 feet |
| 20:09.30 | Mr_Rabies | er, aren't 3 feet to us, at least |
| 20:09.38 | Neffi | I'll do some tests to get an accurate Azerothian->Earth-metric scale |
| 20:09.53 | Neffi | But got any ideas on how I should go about getting accurate square milage of the landscape? |
| 20:10.09 | foxlit | (a) it's been done |
| 20:10.11 | foxlit | (b) it's stupid. |
| 20:10.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Ressy (~Ressy@unaffiliated/ressy) |
| 20:10.33 | Mr_Rabies | ingame azeroth is supposed to be a symbolic version of the "real thing" |
| 20:10.53 | Neffi | foxlit: no ur stoopid |
| 20:11.06 | Unkle | Astrolabe or Mapslib already did that, no? |
| 20:11.12 | Mr_Rabies | almost every square foot is utilized for something ingame, as good game design recommends |
| 20:11.16 | Neffi | I'm still curious. I think WoW's probably a good contender for largest in-game land area |
| 20:11.26 | nevcairiel | should be pretty easy to get that information from all these addons that support mapping coordinates to the minimap and whatnot |
| 20:11.41 | Mr_Rabies | games like skyrim, etc cheat a lot, though |
| 20:11.57 | Neffi | Meh. Skyrim's landscape isn't all that unrealistic. |
| 20:11.59 | Mr_Rabies | they do a LOT of copy/pasting, WoW's world is a lot more hand-crafted |
| 20:12.21 | foxlit | unless you're in a cave. |
| 20:12.22 | nevcairiel | unless you enter a cave |
| 20:12.23 | Mr_Rabies | skyrim's basically filler: the game |
| 20:12.24 | nevcairiel | damn |
| 20:12.25 | Neffi | Well yes. I know most of Skyrim's terrain was auto-generated procedurally to look like generic mountainous regions. |
| 20:12.29 | Unkle | As befits a world reworked by the Titans and cracked/sundered by the foolishness of mortals. |
| 20:12.30 | nevcairiel | foxlit was faster |
| 20:12.46 | Mr_Rabies | i think handcrafted worlds feel a lot better, too |
| 20:12.47 | Neffi | I've seen videos about WoW's in-house tools and they literally craft and texture every piece of the landscape by hand. |
| 20:13.01 | Neffi | Also less realistic. Skyrim makes more geological sense. |
| 20:13.05 | foxlit | no |
| 20:13.10 | Mr_Rabies | the bethesda games feel so bland |
| 20:13.18 | Mr_Rabies | the world feels so dead and empty |
| 20:13.33 | foxlit | skyrim transitions environments waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too quickly |
| 20:13.35 | Neffi | There are rivers in WoW with no logical origin; areas where climate dramatically changes in ways not physically possible in real geology. |
| 20:13.53 | nevcairiel | Neffi: there are characters in wow that can shoot fire balls |
| 20:13.54 | Mr_Rabies | wow's really one of a handful of games to do an open world right |
| 20:14.09 | foxlit | "Oh look, green fields and running rivers!" (3 minutes of running later) "Oh look, snow everywhere!" |
| 20:14.20 | Mr_Rabies | i think you forget that most of azeroth's elements are controlled by elementals and dragons :p |
| 20:14.22 | nevcairiel | its not like wow doesnt do that |
| 20:14.46 | Neffi | nevcairiel: Fundamentally everything has to come down to sound mechanics. Just because magic makes no sense to us, doesn't mean something like that can't hypothetically exist in some universe. That universe would still have to follow coherent mechanics. |
| 20:14.47 | TC-Work | no one seems to have posted any but there are world size overlay maps. |
| 20:15.16 | Neffi | Oh I totally believe WoW is a strong contender for best world design ever. I also think it could be outdone. |
| 20:15.17 | nevcairiel | Neffi: just because you dont understand the coherence of said mechanics doesn't mean its incoherent |
| 20:15.21 | Mr_Rabies | Neffi: what if azeroth generates microclimates based on elemental presence in an area? |
| 20:15.23 | Neffi | Just because it hasn't doesn't mean everything |
| 20:15.27 | foxlit | nevcairiel: true, but that's not my point. I just think translating game world sizes to real world areas is nonsensical, no matter which fantasy game you pick. |
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| 20:16.02 | Mr_Rabies | i think it's good as long as you use a conversion for the avatar's size in the world compared to something that exists in both and seems to be in a proper scale |
| 20:16.10 | Mr_Rabies | both reality and the game world |
| 20:16.34 | foxlit | fundamentally, that scale doesn't make sense. |
| 20:16.42 | Unkle | Game world sizes should be handled with the Cinematic Theorem of Travel and Locality - things happen at the appointed place/time with the right people because the story demands it. Anything else is over-thinking. |
| 20:16.43 | Neffi | Mr_Rabies: The drop-off rate of their influence in certain areas seems highly unlikely to me. While most of the world could actually get by on this mechanic (see: Tanaris and Un'Goro) there are areas that just don't seem to align correctly. |
| 20:17.17 | Mr_Rabies | also the earthwarder was a bit out of whack until we KILLED HIM |
| 20:17.22 | foxlit | stormwind is supposed to have what, a few hundred thousand people in it? |
| 20:17.33 | nevcairiel | If you had any world with a real-world scale, it wouldn't make for a fun game |
| 20:17.34 | Unkle | Not in that space. |
| 20:17.36 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, i think about 120k, or so |
| 20:17.42 | Neffi | Hell no |
| 20:17.58 | Mr_Rabies | like i said, it's a symbolic representation of azeroth |
| 20:18.10 | nevcairiel | lore like that and the world design just cannot fit together |
| 20:18.29 | Neffi | I've thought about simulating a realistic open world based on mechanics that adhere to known properties of geology, and you'd always end up having to stretch too much |
| 20:18.46 | Mr_Rabies | the real world of warcraft would take weeks or months to get from darkshore to silithus without the aid of gryphons |
| 20:19.02 | Mr_Rabies | instead of just a few hours |
| 20:19.07 | Mr_Rabies | probably months |
| 20:19.08 | Neffi | A massive world, an order of magnititude bigger than WoW, would be a fucking tiny celestial body. I can't think of a reasonable way to explain its gravity without reverting to magic. |
| 20:19.27 | foxlit | island, problem solved. |
| 20:20.03 | nevcairiel | yeah, traveling around took ages before modern tech, and a gryphon can't fly at the speed of a plane, its just not possible :p |
| 20:20.15 | Neffi | Well if you assume there's other land, but not of it is visible from the island -- hencewhy travel between them isn't an option in-game (they don't know other land exists)... |
| 20:20.31 | Neffi | The world would still be so overwhelming water-covered that weather would behave VERY differently |
| 20:21.03 | Neffi | Even if it were relatively small (half the size of Mars) |
| 20:21.07 | Unkle | Today, people commute up to 30 miles (in the US) for work. Some more. Before the car, that was a pretty major distance. And travel to other nations was by ship, journeys of weeks in some cases. |
| 20:21.15 | nevcairiel | you dont have to go that far to find a cluster of islands without any other land visible from them |
| 20:21.27 | Arrowmaster | only 30? |
| 20:21.44 | Arrowmaster | i drove 200 miles in one day last week for work |
| 20:21.47 | Neffi | That's a pretty low "up to" estimate. I think that's closer to an average estimate. |
| 20:22.03 | TC-Work | Neffi: Don't forget about density. You have a world twice the size of earth at 1G. |
| 20:22.06 | nevcairiel | yeah i've commuted further than that for a while |
| 20:22.20 | Unkle | Arrowmaster: My longest daily commute so far has been 35 miles from Galveston to the southeastern portion of Houston. I used that as a yardstick. |
| 20:22.21 | Neffi | Hell commuting to the halfway point in Manhattan from the northern part of Staten Island, and back, would already be more than 30 miles for me. |
| 20:22.48 | Unkle | And that was each way, so a 70mile round trip. |
| 20:23.01 | TC-Work | http://11k2.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/100511game_worlds.jpg that was what I was refering to btw |
| 20:23.12 | Neffi | TC-Work: The problem is, you can't make it too dense before the mechanics of the world don't make sense. Say it's the size of Mars' moons, but dense enough to have Earth gravity. That's going to wreak havoc on your model. |
| 20:23.20 | TC-Work | slightly outdated at this point |
| 20:23.30 | foxlit | I propose that world size be measured in minutes of travel time^2 |
| 20:23.32 | TC-Work | Neffi: how so? |
| 20:23.39 | Neffi | Things like potential heat and charge held by the planet, orbit and all sorts of other mechanics wouldn't align correctly |
| 20:23.50 | Arrowmaster | Unkle: heres all the locations i have to go to http://goo.gl/maps/OksWY |
| 20:23.51 | TC-Work | depends what the material of the planet is |
| 20:23.54 | Neffi | Plus, what the hell's it made of? |
| 20:24.21 | Neffi | How did it get to be that dense, yet is still in the habitable zone of the star? |
| 20:24.39 | Unkle | Arrowmaster: now to position snipers along your route... |
| 20:24.55 | foxlit | teehee, Springfield. |
| 20:25.23 | TC-Work | Neffi: Possibility does not negate Probability. |
| 20:25.35 | nevcairiel | that part of OH has the weirdest town names |
| 20:25.37 | Neffi | I'm not running numbers, but I can't imagine any material -- which would be found at high enough densities in the necessary region, could produce enough density to account for such massive gravity. |
| 20:25.42 | TC-Work | I think that was backwards... |
| 20:25.46 | nevcairiel | troy? london? xenia? all in one maps view! |
| 20:26.20 | Neffi | You'd need to start working with modifications of the universe itself -- different standard model and force strengths, but playing with those means you need to craft them carefully to produce a universe where things can even exist. |
| 20:26.46 | TC-Work | Just because you don't know how it can be done, does not mean it can not be done. |
| 20:26.47 | Neffi | So, magic. |
| 20:26.56 | Neffi | Aye, that's true. |
| 20:27.09 | Neffi | Maybe when I make an MMO, I should hire a team of renowned PhDs to design the world |
| 20:27.11 | nevcairiel | who says some world like that has the same materials, or hell, even rules? :d |
| 20:27.24 | Neffi | That's why I said different universe |
| 20:27.25 | TC-Work | heh, exotic matter world |
| 20:27.27 | Unkle | And sufficiently advanced physics is indistinguishable from magic. - Sorry Mr. Clarke. |
| 20:27.44 | TC-Work | goes both ways Unkle |
| 20:28.03 | Unkle | TC-Work: Analog published a short story about that. |
| 20:28.07 | nevcairiel | that reminds me of novel i read, where part of the story was around a MMO designed to be phyiscally/geologically correct |
| 20:28.14 | Neffi | I decided I would end up describing magic coherently. I love the idea of crafting a fantasy universe where magic isn't just a convenient plot device, but a mechanic of nature which must be consistent and coherent with the physics of the world, and thus have realistic limitations. |
| 20:28.17 | Dagmar | Charles Stross |
| 20:28.23 | Dagmar | Precursor to Rule 34 |
| 20:28.33 | Gnarfoz | every time I look at Maps with the new satellite imagery, I can't not notice how /everything/ appears to be green now :D |
| 20:28.34 | Dagmar | Actually it may have been Rule 34. |
| 20:28.54 | Dagmar | Stross was modeling that character after Toady One (Dwarf Fortress) |
| 20:29.03 | Neffi | nevcairiel: Which novel was that? |
| 20:29.29 | nevcairiel | i think its english title is "Reamde" |
| 20:29.31 | TC-Work | Neffi: You should try reading http://www.amazon.com/Pyromancer-Don-Callander/dp/0441692222 they did a good job of explaning what you just said. |
| 20:29.50 | Dagmar | Ugh. Yes |
| 20:29.51 | Neffi | TC-Work: I'll add it to my list. |
| 20:29.55 | Dagmar | It was Reamde |
| 20:30.12 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: there's also Dehli, Lebanon, and of course, Circleville ;D |
| 20:30.49 | Neffi | This is something I eventually want to do. Craft a fantasy universe that a physics PhD could geek out in. Where I don't ever just say "it's magic", but still have magic be an overwhelming force in the plot. |
| 20:31.01 | TC-Work | I swear I need to buy a house just to store my books. |
| 20:31.21 | nevcairiel | Neffi: read Reamde, you'll identify with that MMO they crafted :p |
| 20:31.31 | Neffi | nevcairiel: Ooh, that's by Stephenson. Ever read Anathem? |
| 20:31.35 | Neffi | It's fucking great |
| 20:31.39 | nevcairiel | nop |
| 20:31.43 | Neffi | Read it |
| 20:31.47 | Dagmar | Damn thing is almost as rough to wade through as Anathem in places |
| 20:31.51 | Neffi | Warning: It's just over 1000 pages in length |
| 20:32.02 | TC-Work | So a short book? |
| 20:32.04 | Dagmar | It's bad enough that they're talking about some cutting edge crypto tech, they have to be Welsh, too |
| 20:32.15 | Gnarfoz | only americans would think of warning someone of a books |
| 20:32.19 | nevcairiel | hah |
| 20:32.30 | Neffi | If you're anywhere from moderately curious about science to pursuing a PhD in science or philosophy, you'll probably enjoy Anathem a lot |
| 20:32.33 | Gnarfoz | lenght, fuck I typoed return while trying to fix the books/book's typo :P |
| 20:32.36 | nevcairiel | Gnarfoz: i could sue him for time wasted |
| 20:33.03 | foxlit | reamde has a nice video game, but doesn't really go anywhere with it :( |
| 20:33.05 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: do it after reading the book, if it's bad |
| 20:33.07 | Neffi | Most people I know consider 300 pages a long book. I loved that it was as long as it was. Some people hate that. |
| 20:33.15 | Gnarfoz | 300 oO |
| 20:33.31 | nevcairiel | i consder 300 short |
| 20:33.34 | nevcairiel | *consider |
| 20:33.51 | Neffi | As do I, but that's what most modern American novels seem to shoot for |
| 20:33.56 | Neffi | Read: shit like da Vinci Code |
| 20:34.01 | Gnarfoz | that's like, The Hobbit, or Harry Potter 1 |
| 20:34.47 | Neffi | Yeah, I forget the Hobbit was short. LotR wasn't though, if you consider that it's all one novel conveniently split into volumes for the sake of sales |
| 20:35.12 | Gnarfoz | it's split in different ways in different countries anyway |
| 20:35.24 | Unkle | And printing. Binding books that large is a fucking pain. |
| 20:35.27 | Gnarfoz | I've got it all-in-one, as 3 books and as 6 books oO |
| 20:35.56 | Gnarfoz | (all of them are paperbacks :() |
| 20:35.59 | nevcairiel | i got it all-in-one in english, and 3 books in german |
| 20:36.09 | Neffi | Well I mean the original publication. It was originally going to be 2 books, each the same length as the whole LotR combined. It was split into 3 volumes of 2 books each (and the 2nd series put on hold) because otherwise it wouldn't have been approachable by the public, thus wouldn't have sold. |
| 20:36.20 | Neffi | Tolkien argued with the publishers, but gave up that fight pretty easily |
| 20:36.53 | Neffi | 2nd series became Silmarillion. Was originally designed to be LotR pt 2 |
| 20:37.10 | mikma | http://petapixel.com/2013/06/21/ammo-cross-section-photos-of-bullets-used-during-wwii/ |
| 20:37.37 | nevcairiel | Silmarillion feels more like a loose collection of stuff and historical background, unless they made it that on purpose it wouldn't have made for a good story like LotR itself |
| 20:38.05 | Gnarfoz | Neffi: wikipedia disagrees on the "why": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lord_of_the_Rings#Publication_history |
| 20:38.13 | Neffi | That's because that's exactly what it was nev |
| 20:38.40 | Neffi | Silmarillion was his life's Work In Progress. It was rewritten so many times, in so many parts that would be discarded casually and re-imagined years later. |
| 20:38.57 | Gnarfoz | Silmarillion is hard to read even now, IMHO |
| 20:39.00 | Neffi | It never was close to finished. His son took the hundreds of different parts and re-imagined a single book as close as he could |
| 20:39.12 | Gnarfoz | (that being, revised, edited by his son, etc) |
| 20:40.13 | Neffi | Gnarfoz: I can't speak to the credibility of what I said being perfect, but I read that in one of Tolkien's son's publications about his father's work. I can't recall which. It's buried somewhere in this room. |
| 20:40.24 | Gnarfoz | and it was a long time ago! :P |
| 20:41.03 | nevcairiel | rumor has it that parts of simarillion are going in the 3rd hobbit movie to bridge the gap to lotr, i wonder what |
| 20:41.05 | Neffi | It might be the History of Middle Earth, or the Unfinished Tales, or some collection of writings about the world. I don't know. I have a lot of Tolkien stuff scattered. |
| 20:41.41 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: Gandalf exploring... some place |
| 20:42.01 | Gnarfoz | I came across it just recently again, but forgot the place's name |
| 20:42.02 | Neffi | Well the absolute complete version of the LotR contains an appendix that's fairly large. It touches on a lot of history previously unpublished, but lacks details. Jackson said he was including passages from that. I assume he used Silmarillion as a source to fill in the major gap in details. |
| 20:42.19 | Neffi | Exploring some place? Where hasn't Gandalf been? |
| 20:42.29 | Neffi | He's the greatest fucking wizard in Middle-Earth |
| 20:42.42 | nevcairiel | don't tell saruman that |
| 20:42.48 | Neffi | lol |
| 20:42.51 | Gnarfoz | he might be after everything was said and done |
| 20:42.57 | Gnarfoz | but not during The Hobbit |
| 20:43.09 | Neffi | He was "officially" named the greatest partly because of his work in defeating Saruman |
| 20:43.09 | Gnarfoz | also, we were talking about what's going (to be going) on in a movie adaption |
| 20:43.12 | Neffi | errrr |
| 20:43.14 | Neffi | Sauron |
| 20:43.20 | Neffi | well, both actually |
| 20:43.27 | nevcairiel | it was quite weird seeing saruman trying to act friendly in the hobbit when everyone except gandalf knew that he will betray them all :p |
| 20:43.46 | Neffi | what? |
| 20:43.59 | Gnarfoz | and it's Dol Guldur "they" were talking about, I think? |
| 20:44.03 | Neffi | From what I know Gandalf had no inclination that Saruman would one day betray him |
| 20:44.14 | Gnarfoz | that's not what he said |
| 20:44.25 | Neffi | Are you speaking of the movie? |
| 20:44.28 | Gnarfoz | yesssss? |
| 20:44.34 | Neffi | Because it's not strictly accurate |
| 20:44.39 | Neffi | at least AFAIK |
| 20:44.39 | Gnarfoz | you don't say.jpg |
| 20:44.44 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 20:44.48 | Neffi | >_> |
| 20:44.53 | nevcairiel | movies are never strictly accurate |
| 20:44.54 | Gnarfoz | and with "everyone" he was referring to the audience |
| 20:44.57 | nevcairiel | indeed |
| 20:45.02 | nevcairiel | someone understands me! |
| 20:45.09 | Neffi | I read that wrong |
| 20:45.11 | Gnarfoz | brofist.jpg |
| 20:45.30 | Gnarfoz | I sound like that danish troll today |
| 20:45.31 | Neffi | I thought you said everyone except Gandalf was ignorant to the betrayal |
| 20:45.42 | nevcairiel | nah |
| 20:45.54 | Gnarfoz | it's the curse of the prequel! :D |
| 20:46.05 | Neffi | It's times like these I wish I had Colbert on speed dial |
| 20:46.05 | Gnarfoz | gotta forget you've seen/read/watched what happens afterwards |
| 20:46.06 | nevcairiel | but saruman always had the face of a evil person if you ask me |
| 20:46.17 | nevcairiel | (in the movie) |
| 20:46.22 | Neffi | That man knows just about every fucking fact about Middle-Earth that can be known |
| 20:46.32 | Gnarfoz | as does Christopher Lee, probably |
| 20:46.51 | Neffi | Funny, Christopher Lee remarked that Colbert is the biggest Tolkien fan in the world |
| 20:47.00 | Gnarfoz | (wasn't he a huge Tolkien buff, too?) |
| 20:47.06 | Neffi | yeah |
| 20:47.21 | Gnarfoz | hmmm |
| 20:47.38 | Neffi | Jackson remarked that he was sort of in awe at their geekdom (I think he was referring to Lee, but I know he meant Colbert) |
| 20:47.38 | Gnarfoz | food or finish sorting photos |
| 20:47.53 | Gnarfoz | ~8ball |
| 20:47.53 | purl | ACTION rolls the eight ball and gets: My reply is no |
| 20:48.04 | Gnarfoz | not helpful, purl :( |
| 20:48.33 | nevcairiel | 8ball doesnt really work with either or questions, only yes no :p |
| 20:49.01 | foxlit | is the answer to this question "no", purl? |
| 20:49.02 | foxlit | ~8ball |
| 20:49.03 | purl | ACTION rolls the eight ball and gets: It is decidedly so |
| 20:49.09 | Gnarfoz | you is a winrar |
| 20:49.33 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: needs more Scrapbucket, it would have answered right away! |
| 20:49.41 | TC-Work | Sounds like no food or sorting photos |
| 20:50.40 | Gnarfoz | TC-Work: it's a subtle message that the world is about to end |
| 20:52.23 | TC-Work | Gnarfoz: very very subtle. |
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| 21:24.53 | Neffi | Should I be ashamed that this took me like 2 minutes to get? http://i.imgur.com/I1nv9FA.jpg |
| 21:25.29 | zenzelezz | yes |
| 21:25.46 | Neffi | =( |
| 21:27.32 | Cairenn | yes |
| 21:28.05 | VIad | is it a gender joke? |
| 21:28.12 | Cairenn | no |
| 21:28.16 | VIad | shrug |
| 21:28.19 | Neffi | I'm less ashamed |
| 21:28.43 | VIad | I get the off-by-one error but it's not that funny :P |
| 21:29.05 | VIad | I was like "is it supposed to be funny because it's a girl?" meh |
| 21:29.19 | VIad | I guess I'm just lame tonight |
| 21:30.15 | Neffi | Yes, it's off-by-one. I was thinking something with binary for a while. I've heard too many bad jokes about binary. |
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| 21:31.13 | TC-Work | ^ |
| 21:32.08 | Neffi | I think the only thing funny about it is that if you're used to 0-bound languages, you could easily make an off-by-one error just trying to understand it |
| 21:33.33 | foxlit | If you haven't seen catastrophically hilarious off-by-one errors in code, you haven't been doing enough coding. |
| 21:34.21 | Neffi | I hid many off-by-one mindfucks into some of my first-year programs just to fuck with my professor |
| 21:34.54 | zenzelezz | the classic off-by-one: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc968 |
| 21:35.00 | Neffi | I always enjoyed when he asked me to present my solution to the problem. I'd play all sorts of weird tricks with the variables so others would have issues and inevitably lose track of where the hell the array is being indexed |
| 21:35.23 | foxlit | fail, no re. |
| 21:35.26 | Neffi | I feel bad that I was the only one to get an A. I think I may have caused it. =( |
| 21:36.57 | foxlit | do your courses include no objectives evaluating your ability to communicate in your field? |
| 21:37.57 | Neffi | Not the first semester, no |
| 21:38.18 | Neffi | It's mostly just "ok you know how to write English, now it's time to learn this weird thing called C(++)" |
| 21:38.48 | Neffi | There's usually a limit of 2-3 people who have ever touched code in their life in those classes |
| 21:39.10 | foxlit | and if you're intentionally confusing those people, there's really only one way your story should end. |
| 21:39.27 | Neffi | =/ |
| 21:39.28 | Gnarfoz | a prize? |
| 21:40.06 | Neffi | I actually helped out a lot. People assumed I was the TA. But you know when you come across the few that just weren't meant to be programmers. It's not my fault =/ |
| 21:40.58 | Neffi | I dont know if my school is an exception, but from what I hear only 5 kids stuck with CS after the intro class. I know 2 of them, and despite getting upper Cs, they're doing fine now. |
| 21:41.51 | TC-Work | Grades != reality |
| 21:42.17 | Neffi | Programming is fucking hard if you've never even seen it before the age of 22. I honestly think most people can't be good programmers to begin with. You have to assume most of them will switch majors. The people who stick to it despite fucking up horribly their first year deserve the degree more than people like me -- who came into it knowing the stuff |
| 21:42.45 | Neffi | Natural selection, of sorts |
| 21:43.18 | Dagmar | If you want Natural Selection to really work... tie the output of error_log to a vacuum in the user's office. |
| 21:43.37 | Dagmar | If they do what one of my users just did, no more air for them. |
| 21:43.48 | Neffi | But it would be much funnier to tie the output of all ostreams to their printer |
| 21:44.00 | Dagmar | Nah, they'd just let hte paper run out |
| 21:44.09 | Dagmar | This was over a million lines in three seconds flat. |
| 21:44.33 | Dagmar | Management doesn't want to me even start having the system email people their error_log stuff every hour. |
| 21:44.49 | Neffi | Meh. The printer spool would just fill up. No printer is fast enough when all the programs you write 1st year involve lots of CLI and file output |
| 21:45.41 | Neffi | That's something I never understood about other programmers. Why don't people test their damn code? |
| 21:46.06 | Neffi | I wouldn't check in a piece of code without testing it, let alone put it into production |
| 21:46.46 | Dagmar | It's because they don't know how it works in the first place. |
| 21:46.57 | Unkle | Don't you know? Their code never fails. It COMPILED for pete's sake. |
| 21:47.04 | Neffi | Yet they have software engineering jobs and I don't |
| 21:47.10 | Dagmar | If they were familiar with the common failure states, they'd just stop writing code that falls prey to them |
| 21:48.51 | Neffi | 2 more years to go before I got a B.S., and job postings are seeking BSs for things like data-entry. I just wanna code. =( |
| 21:49.25 | Grivvel | Neffi: Are you asking why people don't test their code in school? Or in live production environments? Sadly, complete testing is frequently prohibitively expensive (or impossible) on large-scale projects. |
| 21:49.30 | TC-Work | Apply anyay, worst that can happen is they say no. |
| 21:50.01 | Neffi | Grivvel: Both |
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| 21:50.34 | Neffi | I can understand kids in school not getting the hang of it, but you should know how to avoid that stuff before you have a degree |
| 21:51.05 | Grivvel | Neffi: I totally agree on small projects. But unless you've worked on a project with 30+ engineers with code going back 15+ years, it's hard to really imagine just how difficult it would be to test everything |
| 21:51.08 | TC-Work | Sometimes it does not always work that way |
| 21:52.17 | Neffi | That seems unreasonable to me. I can't see how it's considered acceptible to release any piece of engineering without testing |
| 21:53.38 | Grivvel | Neffi: The common adage I've heard is 3 lines of testing code for every live of production code. For medical software/aviation/etc., that really makes sense. For most user products, more than tripling production time is just not acceptable. |
| 21:53.46 | Neffi | If your auto engineers claimed thorough testing was prohibitively expensive, they'd be sued and possibly jailed for criminally negligent homicide when somebody dies. Yet "large scale" software can form the basis of corporations worth millions or more, and the cost of faulty code could be devastating. |
| 21:54.23 | Grivvel | Yeah, like I said, it makes sense in certain industries. But in others, it doesn't. |
| 21:54.41 | TC-Work | Don't forget there are 'levels' of failures as well. |
| 21:54.45 | Neffi | Well user products are a different story. I don't expect the authors of foobar2k to spend that much time testing. |
| 21:55.09 | Neffi | But testing should still be part of the process, if comprehensive or not |
| 21:55.44 | Grivvel | Neffi: I'm sure non-comprehensive testing is a part of most company's processes. It's the comprehensive testing that doesn't happen. |
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| 21:56.44 | Neffi | Which explains why, in general, the less critical a piece of software is, the chance of it having major bugs is exponentially higher |
| 21:57.04 | Neffi | Hell I dont think I've used a piece of software which didn't contain glaring bugs at some point |
| 21:57.48 | Unkle | Depends on how you define "comprehensive" - How many hardware/software combinations do you test against? How much of that can you do with automation? |
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| 22:25.20 | TC-Work | You would think by now I would have learned my lesson about looking up advanced science terms. Now my head hurts. |
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| 22:36.56 | Unkle | That pain is your mind growing, son. |
| 22:38.36 | TC-Work | Yes pappa |
| 22:39.07 | Unkle | Wow. I was totally expecting something more... vicious. |
| 22:39.41 | TC-Work | Like "It's a skull bursting erection of thought"? |
| 22:40.44 | TC-Work | besides, messing with people > * |
| 22:40.47 | Unkle | I said vicious, not graphic. But sure. |
| 22:40.58 | TC-Work | What were you thinking of then? |
| 22:41.39 | Unkle | I thought you'd go right to some sort of personal insult, but I'm actually rather impressed. |
| 22:42.18 | TC-Work | Not really following why you would think that. |
| 22:43.19 | Unkle | I'm in that mindset today where I expect it. *shrug* |
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| 23:34.48 | TC-Work | *sigh* going from python to php is murder on semicolons. |
| 23:35.11 | TC-Work | and me. |
| 23:49.33 | foxlit | TC-Work: semicolons and not $? |
| 23:50.12 | TC-Work | foxlit: Yea, that seems to be the thing I forget the most. |
| 23:56.56 | Torhal | It's semicolons and parens for me when switching to C# |
| 23:57.47 | Torhal | Then Python gets me with elif |
