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| 00:49.48 | Stanzilla | touches Adys |
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| 00:54.20 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 00:54.57 | Shirik | so today I spent 4 hours debugging something |
| 00:55.00 | Shirik | to find out it's a Windows bug |
| 00:55.17 | Shirik | I have trained myself so much to say "when you think it's an API bug, you're probably wrong" and now I don't know what to think :( |
| 00:55.44 | Iriel | That's still true, "probably" != "always" |
| 00:56.50 | Shirik | stupidest bug ever; I'm interfacing with this router through which I'm sending multicast stuff |
| 00:57.22 | Shirik | the router periodically sends out IGMP group queries to see "hey are you still listening to this stuff?" to which you're supposed to respond or else it will stop routing it to you |
| 00:57.50 | Shirik | The source of that group query is 0.0.0.0 (as per the standard), but Windows freaks out when it sees 0.0.0.0 and drops the packet. If it has a source IP of ANYTHING else, it works. |
| 01:00.13 | Shirik | sad thing is I have the winsock code, and I'm considering mucking around with it to fix it :/ Would be my first time working directly in the winsock stack |
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| 02:45.05 | Adys | I AM A GOD |
| 02:45.06 | Adys | BOW TO ME. |
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| 02:45.24 | Adys | I just sold a gnathus for the equivalent on my server of 70k gold |
| 02:48.02 | Mr_Rabies | what's "the equivalent" |
| 02:48.04 | Shirik | refuses to bow |
| 02:48.46 | Mr_Rabies | did you trade them in e-rp favors |
| 02:49.19 | Adys | a jikun hatchling, an azure whelpling and a peddlefeet; all rare lvl 25 |
| 02:50.57 | Mr_Rabies | so yes then |
| 02:51.10 | Mr_Rabies | is a peddlefeet really rare? |
| 02:51.17 | Adys | its upgraded |
| 02:51.22 | Adys | PFs are uncommon by default |
| 02:51.41 | Mr_Rabies | well i mean like |
| 02:51.49 | Mr_Rabies | oh, i was thinking |
| 02:51.57 | Mr_Rabies | rare as in not many out there, worth a lot, etc |
| 02:52.02 | Mr_Rabies | not rare as in blue quality :p |
| 02:52.28 | Adys | theres plenty |
| 02:52.33 | Adys | they sell for like 100-200g usually |
| 02:52.39 | Mr_Rabies | ah |
| 02:52.41 | Mr_Rabies | okay |
| 02:53.00 | Mr_Rabies | i stopped looking for pets on the AH when they took away the ability to see only pets you don't already own |
| 02:53.12 | Mr_Rabies | it's too much of a mess now even on my mostly-dead server |
| 02:56.12 | Kraps | how do i get d3 to work |
| 02:56.19 | Adys | run it |
| 02:57.18 | Kraps | the launcher gets stuck at initializing and 86.3% |
| 02:57.48 | Mr_Rabies | on windows? |
| 02:58.02 | Kraps | and when i close it i cant open it again |
| 02:58.06 | Kraps | Mr_Rabies: yes |
| 02:58.09 | Mr_Rabies | close the agent.exe process and try again |
| 02:58.53 | Mr_Rabies | is it installed and you're trying to patch/run it or are you just trying to get it installed? |
| 02:59.03 | Kraps | no such processes |
| 02:59.07 | Kraps | the former |
| 02:59.19 | Mr_Rabies | run the launcher as admin |
| 03:00.37 | Kraps | theres a Diablo III Launcher.exe process that i cant end |
| 03:00.47 | Kraps | but no launcher |
| 03:01.09 | Mr_Rabies | can't end it? O_o |
| 03:01.26 | Kraps | access is denied |
| 03:02.06 | Mr_Rabies | may wanna just restart your pc O_o |
| 03:02.16 | Mr_Rabies | or log out/back in at the least |
| 03:02.20 | Mr_Rabies | see if maybe that kills it |
| 03:02.27 | Kraps | it does |
| 03:02.37 | Kraps | but then the same thing happenes |
| 03:03.03 | Mr_Rabies | hmmm |
| 03:03.19 | Mr_Rabies | i'd rename your battle.net folder, lemme hunt down instructions on that |
| 03:03.50 | Mr_Rabies | https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/deleting-battlenet-tools-folder-pc |
| 03:05.05 | Mr_Rabies | also do the same with a "Blizzard Entertainment" folder at the same path |
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| 03:05.15 | Mr_Rabies | i'd rename instead of delete but i'm paranoid like that |
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| 05:36.59 | Fisker | btw jnwhiteh |
| 05:41.23 | Fisker | You can tell tharper that i said owned jnwhiteh |
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| 06:12.09 | Shirik | so a single person won the entire powerball jackpot |
| 06:12.13 | Shirik | crazy |
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| 06:18.02 | Fisker | nope Shirik |
| 06:18.14 | Shirik | yep |
| 06:18.26 | Fisker | nope |
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| 06:19.41 | Fisker | you know what is crazy Shirik ? |
| 06:19.54 | Fisker | if you could travel 10 days and 16 hours into the future with me |
| 06:21.52 | Cairenn | they say where yet? |
| 06:22.29 | Fisker | according to wikipedia the US |
| 06:22.35 | Cairenn | lol |
| 06:22.35 | Fisker | runs |
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| 06:50.05 | Mr_Rabies | anyone know if getall scanning is fixed with 5.3? |
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| 07:26.47 | Shirik | "A loaded 9 mm handgun with a serial number scratched off was found at the scene, police said." |
| 07:26.54 | Shirik | why do people scratch off the serial number |
| 07:26.57 | Shirik | it is pointless |
| 07:27.44 | Mr_Rabies | i'm sure somewhere along the line it helps |
| 07:28.24 | Mr_Rabies | maybe not as a murder weapon or anything but for shady deals beforehand perhaps |
| 07:31.36 | Fisker | why is it pointless Shirik ? |
| 07:32.00 | Shirik | it does not accomplish anything except making your gun more suspicious |
| 07:32.27 | Fisker | how can it get more suspicious? |
| 07:32.31 | Semlar | ..and make it so they can't look up the serial number and know who bought it |
| 07:32.43 | Shirik | scratching off the serial number doesn't remove it |
| 07:32.47 | Fisker | if it wasn't scratched off would they go "Oh that gun wasn't used for a murder at all" |
| 07:32.58 | Semlar | oh, okay |
| 07:33.09 | Semlar | i thought scratching the serial number off removed it |
| 07:33.14 | Shirik | gun manufacturers are required to "punch in" the serial number, which means that the metal becomes more compressed where the numbers are, and so there's techniques that can pull the number off still |
| 07:33.23 | Shirik | I think a common one is acid |
| 07:33.59 | Semlar | so you're saying i should punch new numbers over the old ones |
| 07:34.05 | Shirik | sure |
| 07:34.17 | Semlar | i'll keep that in mind |
| 07:34.19 | Fisker | so Shirik |
| 07:34.26 | Fisker | if it wasn't scratched off would they go "Oh that gun wasn't used for a murder at all"? |
| 07:34.34 | Shirik | yes |
| 07:34.37 | Fisker | oh ok |
| 07:34.38 | Shirik | that's how it works |
| 07:34.41 | Fisker | dumb detectives |
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| 07:36.02 | Shirik | WHAT THE FUCK |
| 07:36.07 | Shirik | I just looked up the circle of life song |
| 07:36.13 | Shirik | they redid it? |
| 07:36.19 | Shirik | this is heresy |
| 07:36.26 | Shirik | Disney has ruined my childhood |
| 07:36.32 | Semlar | it's the circle of life |
| 07:36.41 | Semlar | shirik did you learn nothing from the song |
| 07:36.58 | Shirik | so if I kill everyone at Disney it won't matter? |
| 07:37.11 | Semlar | it might matter to their families |
| 07:37.48 | Semlar | you should probably kill them too |
| 07:37.52 | Shirik | oh ok |
| 07:38.18 | Mr_Rabies | there aren't really that many talking lions in the world, either, shirik |
| 07:38.53 | Mr_Rabies | since i'm not a lionologist i won't rule it out entirely |
| 07:39.21 | nevcairiel | jus because we dont understand them doesnt mean they are not talking |
| 07:40.22 | Mr_Rabies | there aren't really that many lions in the world that speak english, either, shirik* |
| 07:40.37 | Mr_Rabies | even fewer that sing |
| 07:40.45 | Shirik | I agree with nevcairiel |
| 07:40.47 | Shirik | how do you know |
| 07:40.53 | Semlar | are mana bars just for show now on dpsers |
| 07:41.29 | nevcairiel | pretty much, they dont want dpsers to worry about it much |
| 07:41.38 | nevcairiel | unless they royally screw their rotation |
| 07:42.02 | Semlar | i feel like my hunter is getting owned by mana users because they can just front load all of their damage |
| 07:42.22 | nevcairiel | they could always do that |
| 07:42.26 | karl_w_w | unless you're an arcane mage |
| 07:42.28 | Semlar | yeah, but they ran out |
| 07:42.33 | karl_w_w | or at higher gear levels, a frost mage |
| 07:42.38 | nevcairiel | even if they need to worry about mana, its usually enough to burst down someone =p |
| 07:43.04 | Maldivia | morning :) |
| 07:43.07 | Semlar | nah i mean on the dps charts |
| 07:43.18 | nevcairiel | oh |
| 07:43.25 | nevcairiel | you should speak more clearly |
| 07:43.47 | karl_w_w | why would it matter when casters do damage to dps charts? |
| 07:44.12 | karl_w_w | not a lot of 5 second boss fights out there |
| 07:44.33 | Semlar | ah well i have this shaman doing more than 250k dps for the first minute of the fight |
| 07:44.47 | karl_w_w | what's 500 GiB in GB? |
| 07:44.48 | Semlar | it takes a while to even out |
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| 07:45.17 | karl_w_w | he probably got some lucky pops to do that |
| 07:45.32 | nevcairiel | karl_w_w: 536 |
| 07:45.38 | Semlar | i'm just qqing because my hunter can't burst like that |
| 07:45.46 | karl_w_w | and/or the fight has just the right number of cleave targets to suit him |
| 07:46.52 | karl_w_w | yeah but hunters can do full dps on the move |
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| 07:48.37 | Mr_Rabies | hmm |
| 07:49.20 | Mr_Rabies | i was watching "Be Prepared" on youtube and i was concerned they re-recorded that too, it sounded different to me but confirmation bias and all that |
| 07:49.32 | Semlar | all i'm saying is my hunter should have chain lightning |
| 07:49.44 | Mr_Rabies | seems to be the original version because i can still hear the cutover to jim cummings' lines |
| 07:49.59 | Semlar | or should be able to tame shaman |
| 07:50.22 | Maldivia | hmm.... that weird feeling, when you live on the 3rd floor, look out the window, and see someone looking back at you |
| 07:50.38 | Semlar | serves you right for having windows |
| 07:50.50 | Mr_Rabies | see if you can spot the changeover to jim cummings: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkU23m6yX04 |
| 07:50.51 | Maldivia | (and then remember that this weekend is when the windows are getting cleaned) |
| 07:51.08 | nevcairiel | we have to clean our own windows :( |
| 07:51.56 | Maldivia | nevcairiel: can't open most of the windows, so can't clean them (on the outside that is) |
| 07:52.44 | Mr_Rabies | sounds like someone needs more pressure on their pressure washer |
| 07:53.10 | Maldivia | Mr_Rabies: that might work for 3rd and 4th floor... but probably no 23rd floor :) |
| 07:53.23 | karl_w_w | I agree Semlar, any shaman that lets you get off a whole tame without interrupting deserves to be in servitude |
| 07:53.25 | Semlar | what he means is break the window and then replace it |
| 07:53.31 | Mr_Rabies | not with that attitude it won't |
| 07:54.31 | Mr_Rabies | just repurpose the water cannon from the Metal Gear RAY, obviously |
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| 08:16.07 | jnwhiteh | Humbedooh: Fisker: congrats =) |
| 08:16.16 | jnwhiteh | Maldivia: too =) |
| 08:18.13 | Fisker | owned |
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| 08:30.18 | Maldivia | thanks :): |
| 08:32.32 | Fisker | hey tharper |
| 08:32.39 | tharper | hey Fisker |
| 08:32.51 | Fisker | i hope your butt was already lubed |
| 08:33.06 | tharper | I was drunk, that helps, too |
| 08:33.07 | tharper | lol |
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| 10:04.54 | Semlar | decoda apparently can't open two files with the same name |
| 10:05.24 | Semlar | if you try to open another file with the same name as one that's already open it just selects that tab |
| 10:06.28 | nevcairiel | two files with the same name clearly have to be the same file |
| 10:06.40 | Semlar | of course! |
| 10:07.16 | Semlar | how many core.luas could there be |
| 10:09.22 | Semlar | i think it's time to see if i can get pycharm set up for lua |
| 10:10.44 | mikma | anyone wanna trade tf2 pyro/scout/soldier/spy -card into medic card? |
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| 10:38.41 | Humbedooh | jnwhiteh: ty! |
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| 13:18.30 | VIad | the battletag spreadsheet doesn't support DST |
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| 13:27.09 | karl_w_w | your face doesn't support dst |
| 13:27.49 | karl_w_w | is my auto sort script still working |
| 13:32.35 | karl_w_w | yes it seems so |
| 13:32.59 | karl_w_w | man i had 14 unused dota 2 invites and they gave me 12 more today |
| 13:35.33 | jnwhiteh | and still no mac client |
| 13:35.35 | jnwhiteh | >< |
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| 13:40.39 | Fisker | soothes jnwhiteh |
| 13:40.54 | Fisker | that's what you get for using a PC with shitty hardware and software |
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| 13:41.22 | Fisker | i'm kinda mad though jnwhiteh |
| 13:41.26 | jnwhiteh | k |
| 13:41.35 | Fisker | in revolution they hooked up one of those wireless mac keyboards to like an apple 2 |
| 13:41.39 | Fisker | or something like that |
| 13:41.47 | Fisker | and programmed a nanobot with it using the linux kernel |
| 13:42.09 | Fisker | wouldn't that upset you? |
| 13:42.38 | jnwhiteh | natch. |
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| 19:10.37 | Shirik | $59 for a 3-day/2-night stay in Ft. Lauderdale ($458 value) | Trips Incentives is offering a 3-Day, 2-Night stay in Ft. Lauderdale at the Ramada Plaza or one of our preferred partner hotels. For two adults 23 years of age or older and up to two children under the age of 18 plus a $100 Visa® Dine Around. This vacation offer entitles the buyer to 3 days and 2 night’s accommodations in Ft. |
| 19:10.39 | Shirik | Lauderdale at the Ramada Plaza or one of our preferred partner hotels plus $100 Visa® Dine Around to put a little extra spending money in your pocket. |
| 19:10.41 | Shirik | I do not understand this offer |
| 19:13.27 | Maldivia | so you get 2 night at a hotel, + 100$ to spend on food, for $59 ? |
| 19:13.42 | Shirik | that's what it looks like |
| 19:15.15 | Maldivia | ok, the 100$ is 4x25 |
| 19:15.51 | Maldivia | you have to pay in select restaurents with a visa card, then send in the bill to them and get $25 in return |
| 19:16.11 | Shirik | sure |
| 19:16.22 | tharper | Humbedooh, Maldivia, Fisker: You guys had a good act, but you guys clearly need Sweden to help you win |
| 19:16.44 | Maldivia | tharper: I'm seeing a pattern... next year, Estonia will win in Copenhagen :P |
| 19:16.53 | tharper | indeed |
| 19:16.58 | tharper | has Denmark ever won not in Sweden? |
| 19:17.02 | Maldivia | yes |
| 19:17.23 | Maldivia | in 63 |
| 19:17.24 | tharper | oh yeah in 1967 it was in London |
| 19:17.45 | Shirik | aha |
| 19:17.54 | Shirik | "It is a stay at a time share resort and they will expect you to take a tour of the resort and to listen to their sales pitch. There is nothing that is more high pressured than a sales pitch from a time share salesperson. I would refuse the trip. For me it is not worth the pain and suffering they put you through." |
| 19:18.16 | Maldivia | heh |
| 19:18.22 | tharper | Maldivia: I wanted Finland to win |
| 19:18.47 | Maldivia | tharper: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRFDYbb3vek this won back in 1963 |
| 19:19.18 | tharper | I haven't looked at the ovting, but I suspect Finland did a lot better in Northern and Western Europe |
| 19:19.37 | Maldivia | you didn't want free booze from Greece? |
| 19:20.02 | Maldivia | tharper: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kNbOxkIyRQ -- ok, a lot better version :) |
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| 19:38.41 | Stanzilla | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG8NG1zUqB8&feature=youtu.be |
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| 20:48.42 | Ackis | pompy, Arrowmaster: either of you want a Gears of War Judement Gamestop pre-order code or Tomb Raid pre-order code? (or anyone else for that matter) |
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| 20:49.23 | Ackis | pompy, Arrowmaster: either of you want a Gears of War Judement Gamestop pre-order code or Tomb Raid pre-order code? (or anyone else for that matter) |
| 20:49.53 | Fisker | 10 days and 1 hour Shirik |
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| 20:54.34 | Arrowmaster | Ackis: ill take the GoW one i guess |
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| 20:56.53 | Mr_Rabies | i really hope 5.3 fixes getall scanning and For the Ward! |
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| 21:16.53 | Semlar | i hope 5.3 makes it so you can't scan the auction house |
| 21:20.44 | zenzelezz | that would be an interesting change |
| 21:25.41 | bleeter | I hope 5.3 removes the AH completely |
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| 21:32.54 | zenzelezz | Anarchy Online has had an interesting progression, trade-wise. For many years there was only trade channels and face-to-face trades. Then they added player cities, where guilds could rent land in certain areas in the world; and in the town they could be a player shop. There were terminals in (non-player) towns where you could search for items, but you would have to visit the actual shop to buy from them |
| 21:33.03 | zenzelezz | then, much later, they essentially did the AH, minus bidding |
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| 21:59.40 | Dagmar | ...because it was a massive pain in the ass to find people's shops |
| 21:59.44 | Mr_Rabies | D: man i hope you guys are joking |
| 22:00.10 | Dagmar | Nope. |
| 22:00.40 | Dagmar | I have very unfond memories of finding something I wanted and then trekking to go find it _somewhere_ in Asshole-Ka |
| 22:00.54 | Mr_Rabies | i don't mean you, i mean those saying they don't like the AH :o |
| 22:01.12 | Maldivia | zenzelezz: I liked SWGs model |
| 22:01.22 | zenzelezz | how was that? |
| 22:01.32 | Mr_Rabies | i think other than missing purchase orders, wow's got the best system |
| 22:02.05 | Maldivia | zenzelezz: AH for cheap items, rest was player stores or player-to-player |
| 22:02.47 | zenzelezz | purchase orders are really nice |
| 22:02.57 | Maldivia | but then again, in SWG everything was basuically player-crafted, from buildings to armor and weapons |
| 22:04.08 | Mr_Rabies | player-to-player economy is awful design |
| 22:04.21 | zenzelezz | I only tried SWG when it was a few months old... didn't give it a good enough chance, think I gave it three weeks or so |
| 22:04.41 | zenzelezz | didn't like the skill system, for training skills like scouting. "Here, sit down for X minutes" |
| 22:04.51 | zenzelezz | whatever the skill was called |
| 22:04.53 | Mr_Rabies | building an economy entirely built around inconvenience is an awful idea |
| 22:04.56 | Maldivia | it worked really well for SWG - well, Pre-CU |
| 22:05.34 | Maldivia | Foraging? |
| 22:06.01 | zenzelezz | all I remember is you used some ability and you essentially set up a camp |
| 22:07.38 | zenzelezz | back then at least I couldn't really work out the weird three-stat combat thing (what was it, health, stamina, and some other?) |
| 22:08.22 | Maldivia | action |
| 22:10.50 | Maldivia | health, action, mind |
| 22:11.07 | Mr_Rabies | i think inconveniencing the player is possibly one of the most deadly sins in game design |
| 22:11.14 | Mr_Rabies | let that not be confused with challenging the player |
| 22:11.25 | Mr_Rabies | challenge is good, inconvenience is not |
| 22:11.39 | Mr_Rabies | other than very, very small doses perhaps for a payoff |
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| 22:12.22 | Maldivia | SWG was a crafting game |
| 22:12.43 | Maldivia | and a really great crafting game :P |
| 22:12.45 | zenzelezz | one interesting inconvenience Anarchy Online has is run speed. It's a skill. A new character runs rather slowly. As you increase the skill you run faster and jump higher (increasing skill is not a question of just using it, you actually earn points that you spend on skills) |
| 22:13.13 | zenzelezz | Maldivia: I hear people say that a lot, but that it was nerfed (or oversimplified) at some point |
| 22:13.46 | Maldivia | zenzelezz: they did a "Combat Upgrade" at some point, and redid most of the classes etc... and ruined the game |
| 22:14.08 | Maldivia | zenzelezz: after WoW was released, to make the combat more WoW-like |
| 22:14.30 | zenzelezz | was that the "NGE", or were they separate events? |
| 22:14.58 | Maldivia | CU was before NGE |
| 22:15.23 | Maldivia | CU was spring 2005, NGE was fall 2005 |
| 22:15.30 | zenzelezz | I see |
| 22:16.00 | Maldivia | if you look at almost all emulators out there for SWG, most of them are labeled Pre-CU :P |
| 22:16.12 | zenzelezz | hehe |
| 22:17.18 | Mr_Rabies | mmo players are notoriously scared of change so that doesn't surprise me |
| 22:17.45 | Maldivia | well, in this case, they completely changed how the game worked, and what was great about SWG: P |
| 22:18.03 | Maldivia | IMO |
| 22:20.04 | Mr_Rabies | i haven't played it, so i can't speak first-hand on the issue, but i know mmo players are pretty much deathly afraid of change |
| 22:20.15 | Mr_Rabies | that i know from first-hand experience |
| 22:23.04 | bleeter | oh, the bloke from Commodor USA died last year :( |
| 22:23.13 | bleeter | deletes the betas |
| 22:23.14 | bleeter | :( |
| 22:25.42 | zenzelezz | I will agree that MMO players are afraid of change; but I think it's warranted when it's a significant core change |
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| 22:37.35 | Mr_Rabies | i really wish they'd move the older raid gear over to JP sometime :| |
| 22:37.51 | Mr_Rabies | JP is useful for about a day now |
| 22:38.15 | Mr_Rabies | since you can't really spend any worth spending until 90, then immediately replace it with vp/lfr gear |
| 22:45.19 | Sharparam | Mr_Rabies: looms, loom upgrades, offspec gear, trade items? |
| 22:46.21 | Mr_Rabies | most of the trade items have little or no value, and those that have been playing for a while probably have all the heirlooms they need by now |
| 22:47.05 | Sharparam | buy JP gear and DE? :P |
| 22:47.12 | Mr_Rabies | it just feels like a semi-abandoned currency |
| 22:47.38 | Sharparam | so what do you suggest it is replaced with then? |
| 22:47.46 | Sharparam | buy looms with VP? |
| 22:48.00 | Mr_Rabies | no, move all the older tier gear over to JP |
| 22:48.03 | Mr_Rabies | er |
| 22:48.06 | Mr_Rabies | older vp gear |
| 22:49.52 | Mr_Rabies | that system worked excellently in cataclysm and now they have an awkward semi-useless currency and one that has items that are no longer worth buying because the currency used to purchase them can be used for much better things |
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| 22:51.19 | Mr_Rabies | unless you're really desperate to break one or two ilvls to get into the next tier of LFR or whatever, you should hold onto your vp until you can get 522 gear or at the very least 496 gear |
| 22:51.58 | Mr_Rabies | so everything below 496 that's purchasable with vp is wholly worthless, and there's a gear gap at that point that's hard to fill |
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| 22:57.13 | Mr_Rabies | progression is kind of a mess in general this expansion, it feels like they switched gears mid-implementation a few times so nothing quite synergizes |
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| 23:10.57 | Semlar | valor should not be spent on anything below 522 right now |
| 23:11.35 | Semlar | i would consider anything else a bad investment |
| 23:13.03 | Semlar | frankly the valor 496 gear should have been converted to justice points |
| 23:13.26 | Mr_Rabies | that's what i'm saying |
| 23:13.35 | Mr_Rabies | the 496 gear maaaaaaaaaybe but that's really stretching it |
| 23:14.07 | Semlar | the justice gear isn't even worth buying with justice |
| 23:14.14 | Mr_Rabies | currently there's a weird mismatch |
| 23:14.19 | Semlar | it should be converted to honor points to pay for pvp gear |
| 23:14.23 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, pretty much, justice is more or less worthless |
| 23:14.31 | Mr_Rabies | that too |
| 23:14.40 | Mr_Rabies | i guess not totally worthless but |
| 23:14.57 | Mr_Rabies | it shouldn't be nearly as worthless as it is |
| 23:15.03 | Semlar | and they need to kill this stupid entry quest for the legendary quest line because i have gotten a total of TWO of 10 sigils of power |
| 23:15.23 | Semlar | and when i complete it i will receive a useless legendary gem |
| 23:15.27 | Sharparam | > implying legendaries should be easy to get |
| 23:15.44 | Mr_Rabies | it's not like it's hard to get |
| 23:15.50 | Sharparam | but why make it easier? |
| 23:15.55 | Mr_Rabies | it's not really making it easier |
| 23:16.07 | Mr_Rabies | it's already as easy as killing things in lfr |
| 23:16.40 | Semlar | two lfr raids far below my item level that don't appear to ever bother dropping the item in the first place |
| 23:16.43 | Mr_Rabies | plus the item's legendary in name only since it won't have any use |
| 23:16.52 | Semlar | exactly |
| 23:16.56 | Sharparam | possibly |
| 23:17.02 | Semlar | the reward is completely worthless to me except that it lets me advance on the quest line |
| 23:17.10 | Sharparam | a fully upgraded normal/heroic sha item can still last long |
| 23:17.19 | Semlar | i am exalted with the black prince and can't even finish his first quest? |
| 23:17.25 | Semlar | how does this make any sense |
| 23:17.47 | Mr_Rabies | i think time-gating is generally a bad idea, especially after the content becomes worthless |
| 23:18.07 | Sharparam | i doubt i'm replacing my HoF mace with a 522 wep |
| 23:18.20 | Semlar | really? |
| 23:18.27 | Sharparam | ilvl 504 mace with gem |
| 23:18.31 | Mr_Rabies | i replaced my 491 upgraded ToES mace with a 502 ToT mace |
| 23:18.41 | Sharparam | the only thing the 522 weps would upgrade is a bit of spellpower |
| 23:18.43 | Mr_Rabies | er, staff |
| 23:18.44 | Semlar | you know the weapon is going to have a huge dps increase regardless of the stats |
| 23:18.54 | Sharparam | i heal :P |
| 23:19.07 | Sharparam | deepz matter not |
| 23:19.55 | Semlar | well i don't heal and seeing as they removed upgrades before i even leveled my character i don't have a 504 weapon with a legendary socket |
| 23:20.10 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, plus waiting for 30-60 minute queues for it is even better |
| 23:20.13 | Sharparam | upgrades are back on tuesday/wednesday (US/EU) |
| 23:20.35 | Semlar | well i will certainly not be upgrading the HoF item |
| 23:21.02 | Sharparam | maybe not if you are clearing 12/12 ToT every week |
| 23:21.12 | Sharparam | but we don't :P |
| 23:21.21 | Semlar | even the LFR weapon is better for me |
| 23:21.36 | Semlar | let alone the weapon from normal |
| 23:21.58 | Semlar | not to mention i can't seem to complete the stupid legendary quest |
| 23:22.01 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, the lfr one's marginally better than the toes one for me i believe |
| 23:22.14 | Sharparam | weapon dps is based on ilvl? or is it only stats |
| 23:22.20 | Semlar | dps is based on item level |
| 23:22.29 | Sharparam | then HoF would be better than lfr tot i presume |
| 23:22.32 | Sharparam | 504 > 502 |
| 23:22.32 | Mr_Rabies | ilvl determines everything about everything |
| 23:22.47 | Mr_Rabies | 510 > 504 |
| 23:22.57 | Semlar | 504 is > 502 but you're comparing an un-upgraded item to an upgraded one |
| 23:23.05 | Sharparam | hm |
| 23:23.08 | Semlar | so obviously if you were upgrading one you would upgrade the other |
| 23:23.09 | Sharparam | still |
| 23:23.17 | Sharparam | 6 ilvl difference, but +500 in a stat on hof |
| 23:23.32 | Semlar | i would personally not be spending that valor to upgrade it myself |
| 23:23.37 | Semlar | but it might be worth it to somebody else |
| 23:23.39 | Mr_Rabies | 500 to a primary stat isn't worth nearly as much as 6 ilvls worth of direct dps for me as a feral druid |
| 23:23.40 | Sharparam | meh |
| 23:23.42 | Sharparam | 500 valor |
| 23:23.46 | Sharparam | is not *that* much |
| 23:23.57 | Semlar | maybe if i had nothing to spend it on |
| 23:24.07 | Semlar | but i have items i could be buying with it |
| 23:24.16 | Sharparam | spoiled classes with useful valor gear :P |
| 23:24.25 | Mr_Rabies | 500 valor might as well be 5000 valor if you're below 510 ilvl or so |
| 23:25.00 | Mr_Rabies | though upgrading might be worth it a bit more now since they dropped the costs |
| 23:25.18 | Mr_Rabies | still, it's a bad idea to upgrade something that you could replace readily any given lucky drop |
| 23:25.19 | Semlar | i'm surprised healers wouldn't have useful valor gear considering the dps gear all has excessive hit |
| 23:25.26 | Sharparam | the only item worth buying with valor for me is pants now |
| 23:25.37 | Sharparam | but even that's not very useful, since tier pants are better |
| 23:25.47 | Mr_Rabies | what's wrong with the healer valor gear? |
| 23:25.50 | Mr_Rabies | i haven't looked at it |
| 23:26.02 | Sharparam | i already have 522 in most slots that have valor counterparts |
| 23:26.09 | Sharparam | and most valor has crit |
| 23:26.21 | Adys | good god i love pet trading |
| 23:26.24 | Mr_Rabies | ours is covered in hit and expertise so it's not much different |
| 23:26.41 | Mr_Rabies | i've got almost 3% too much hit and i've reforged off every bit that i can |
| 23:26.44 | Semlar | hit and expertise are completely worthless after the cap so i assume healers actually have it better.. |
| 23:26.46 | Mr_Rabies | and have no hit gems |
| 23:26.57 | Adys | 35000 gold today in the worth of 15 minutes time |
| 23:27.03 | Mr_Rabies | and i'm about 1% too high on expertise |
| 23:27.13 | Mr_Rabies | reforging all, no exp gems either |
| 23:27.37 | Mr_Rabies | i don't even care to cap, since hit isn't super super useful for feral druids |
| 23:27.56 | Mr_Rabies | it's nice but you get 80% energy refunded if you don't connect with a special ability |
| 23:28.39 | Sharparam | if only we got 80% mana back when a dispel doesn't dispel |
| 23:29.50 | Sharparam | never really understood why blizz enabled casting dispel when there's nothing to dispel |
| 23:29.57 | Mr_Rabies | requires some skill |
| 23:30.24 | Mr_Rabies | i support skill-based challenge/reward system over a time-spent based challenge/reward system |
| 23:30.35 | Semlar | because all i would do on my shaman was spam purge because it wouldn't bother casting if there was nothing to dispel |
| 23:30.44 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, that's what people did |
| 23:30.50 | Mr_Rabies | they'd just hammer decursive all day |
| 23:30.56 | Semlar | there was literally no reason not to hit purge |
| 23:31.01 | Sharparam | why would you do that |
| 23:31.05 | Mr_Rabies | because why not |
| 23:31.08 | Sharparam | ... |
| 23:31.11 | Mr_Rabies | as soon as there's something to dispel you've dispelled it |
| 23:31.13 | Semlar | right |
| 23:31.19 | Sharparam | dispelling something 0.01 secs faster has an advantage? |
| 23:31.24 | Semlar | yes |
| 23:31.28 | Adys | sometimes yes |
| 23:31.29 | Semlar | it would dispel something the instant it showed up |
| 23:31.32 | Sharparam | i wonder what abilities tick that fast |
| 23:31.49 | Semlar | you could purge a mage's pom before he could even cast another spell |
| 23:32.00 | Sharparam | oh, pvp |
| 23:32.04 | Mr_Rabies | even in pve |
| 23:32.14 | Sharparam | what abilities in pve tick every 0.01 secs? |
| 23:32.27 | Mr_Rabies | it's not 0.01 seconds, it's as much as 1.5 seconds faster if you hammer it the whole time |
| 23:32.39 | Sharparam | you take 1.5 seconds to discover a debuff? |
| 23:32.41 | Mr_Rabies | though less due to haste, of course |
| 23:32.42 | Semlar | plus the fact that someone else might have dispelled it before you got yours off.. |
| 23:33.07 | Mr_Rabies | no, but the global cooldown will work against you when you're reacting to a debuff instead of being proactive |
| 23:33.19 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-68-38-56-4.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 23:33.33 | Sharparam | if you were casting something to activate GCD, you would've been casting that spell even if you spammed dispel |
| 23:33.56 | Sharparam | it's not like the ability to spam dispel devoids you of casting other spells |
| 23:34.05 | Mr_Rabies | not necessarily |
| 23:34.24 | Mr_Rabies | but because there's no reason not to spam dispel you'll cast it up to one GCD faster |
| 23:34.29 | Sharparam | ~0.1 secs to discover dispel, <0.1 secs to dispel it |
| 23:34.54 | Sharparam | that's assuming your reaction time is one gcd |
| 23:35.06 | Mr_Rabies | i support decisions that reward skill instead of simply time spent, and that system's one of them |
| 23:35.38 | Semlar | i'm not sure why you're obsessing over how fast the dispel gets off when you're complaining about it costing mana even when there was nothing to dispel |
| 23:35.50 | Sharparam | the only times i take longer than 0.5 secs to dispel something is if target is out of range, or i casted something to activate GCD |
| 23:36.02 | Mr_Rabies | exactly |
| 23:36.12 | Mr_Rabies | you will prioritize the dispel if you're spamming it constantly |
| 23:36.19 | Sharparam | but i would've activated GCD with the previous spell regardless if dispel is spammable |
| 23:36.35 | Sharparam | spammable dispel does not put it off gcd |
| 23:37.09 | Mr_Rabies | no, but it means you'll cast it immediately upon being able to instead of adding reaction time plus casting other spells into the mix |
| 23:37.25 | Mr_Rabies | either way, i support systems that reward skill and don't really generally like systems that reward time spent instead |
| 23:37.28 | Sharparam | reaction time is roughly 100ms, not the 1500ms you seem to imply |
| 23:37.36 | Mr_Rabies | you and i seem to simply disagree on game design |
| 23:38.04 | Sharparam | if your definition of "skill" is to announce every single dispel you make to avoid clashes, sure |
| 23:38.40 | Mr_Rabies | you should be announcing dispels, yeah |
| 23:38.53 | Mr_Rabies | with the 8s cooldown |
| 23:38.55 | Sharparam | "dispelling 1, dispelling 2, dispelling 3......" |
| 23:39.08 | Mr_Rabies | you should have a system in place though, a priority system |
| 23:39.26 | Sharparam | works on guildruns |
| 23:39.29 | Sharparam | but not LFR/pugs |
| 23:39.43 | Mr_Rabies | it should be easy enough in pugs |
| 23:39.50 | Mr_Rabies | lfr isn't worth strategizing in such a manner |
| 23:39.55 | Sharparam | assuming pugs listen to the raid leader |
| 23:40.00 | Mr_Rabies | well, yeah |
| 23:40.09 | Mr_Rabies | but that's not the combat system's fault |
| 23:40.15 | Sharparam | which is much less frequent since introduction of lfr |
| 23:40.27 | Mr_Rabies | can't plan around idiots to such a degree |
| 23:41.41 | Mr_Rabies | i'd sooner the game be more about rewarding skill instead of time spent |
| 23:41.51 | Mr_Rabies | cata started that way but kind of fell off the wagon |
| 23:42.20 | xyphoid | i was really enjoying launch cata heroics being hard |
| 23:42.32 | Mr_Rabies | and as a result we wind up with people thinking how much of a pain the timegate quests like the sigil one are somehow adding difficulty while something that does require skill becomes an annoyance |
| 23:43.13 | Mr_Rabies | i think dark souls is a perfect modern take on my approach to game design and challenge |
| 23:43.56 | Mr_Rabies | spending more time at it does help, but only because your personal skill at playing the game is increasing, not because you're outleveling content |
| 23:44.12 | Sharparam | well you can't really just remove "timegates" from current content at least |
| 23:44.20 | Mr_Rabies | you can beat the game at soul level 1, provided you're skilled enough |
| 23:44.20 | Sharparam | or we have people getting legendary 5 hours after launch |
| 23:44.35 | Mr_Rabies | i'm okay with people getting gems they can't even use 5 hours after launch |
| 23:44.45 | Sharparam | > current content |
| 23:44.52 | Mr_Rabies | well, the sigil quest isn't current content |
| 23:44.57 | Sharparam | it was |
| 23:45.00 | Semlar | how about the fact that i still haven't completed an outdated quest and can't continue on the questline |
| 23:45.09 | Sharparam | so there are gates needed on current content at least |
| 23:45.15 | Mr_Rabies | not particularly |
| 23:45.28 | Mr_Rabies | it's just designed that way |
| 23:45.47 | Mr_Rabies | you could design it with a skill gate instead but that's not really the goal of this legendary questline |
| 23:46.08 | Semlar | it's going to feel super legendary when i vendor the quest reward |
| 23:46.14 | Mr_Rabies | i think it's okay to loosen up the time gates as the content gets older though |
| 23:46.21 | Mr_Rabies | they have been to an extent |
| 23:46.34 | Mr_Rabies | i think they increased the drop rates and let the wisdom ones drop in MSV as well, already |
| 23:46.44 | Sharparam | well they are reducing the valor required to 3000 |
| 23:46.45 | Mr_Rabies | and 5.3's further increasing the drop rate, i believe |
| 23:46.59 | Mr_Rabies | plus bad luck compensation |
| 23:47.17 | Sharparam | also i have 19 wisdom and 2 of the other type |
| 23:47.21 | Sharparam | just sitting around |
| 23:47.43 | Mr_Rabies | i think dailies are a bad design too, more needless timegating |
| 23:47.51 | Mr_Rabies | dailies are the worst offender in that regard |
| 23:48.00 | Sharparam | what would we be doing all day without dailies then? |
| 23:48.09 | Mr_Rabies | having fun, maybe |
| 23:48.19 | kd3 | by doing...? |
| 23:48.21 | Semlar | masturbating |
| 23:48.33 | Sharparam | 1 hour masturbating = 10 lesser charms? |
| 23:48.43 | Mr_Rabies | i'm pretty sure second life has a system like that |
| 23:49.03 | Sharparam | "Well guys we can't raid this week because Bill didn't masturbate enough." |
| 23:49.20 | Semlar | like that would ever happen |
| 23:49.28 | Mr_Rabies | i think it's good to open up legendaries to everyone, and timegating is kind of a necessity with that |
| 23:49.29 | Sharparam | BIll has two broken arms |
| 23:49.34 | Semlar | bill would find a way |
| 23:49.39 | Mr_Rabies | however, i think there should be a catchup mechanic if you're behind |
| 23:49.49 | Mr_Rabies | dailies though, i think are a net loss to the game's overall quality |
| 23:49.51 | Sharparam | "open up legendaries to everyone" |
| 23:49.51 | Sharparam | what? |
| 23:49.59 | Sharparam | legendaries *shouldn't* be for everyone |
| 23:50.04 | Semlar | they are open to everyone! |
| 23:50.04 | Sharparam | then just turn them to epics |
| 23:50.05 | Mr_Rabies | well, they are now |
| 23:50.10 | Semlar | the quest is just fucking stupidly random |
| 23:50.45 | Semlar | literally the only thing preventing me from completing it is the completely random drop rate |
| 23:50.48 | Mr_Rabies | it just requires weeks and weeks of time and group content that might not be available after a certain point because everyone's already done it |
| 23:51.01 | Mr_Rabies | but everyone can get a legendary now with enough time spent, and i'm okay with that |
| 23:51.16 | Mr_Rabies | however, those that started late, have bad luck, etc should have a catch up mechanic |
| 23:51.18 | Semlar | it has nothing to do with me not doing the raid every week, even though the raid itself is a complete waste of time |
| 23:51.19 | Sharparam | well it's not like the average joe putting in 1 hour a day of wow time should be getting legendaries aimed at top pve content |
| 23:51.34 | Mr_Rabies | i think it's okay if they do |
| 23:51.52 | Sharparam | it should be a massive reward from great time/skill investment |
| 23:51.54 | Mr_Rabies | maybe not as fast as jim bleedingedge, 13/13 heroic |
| 23:52.10 | Semlar | yeah what skill investment is required for this |
| 23:52.16 | Mr_Rabies | but the goal with legendaries this expansion is for everyone to experience them |
| 23:52.30 | Sharparam | that has been the goal of all of wow since at least cata |
| 23:53.02 | Semlar | you would be complaining too if you still didn't have your legendary gem because you were getting screwed by RNG |
| 23:53.11 | Semlar | which is 100% possible |
| 23:53.26 | Sharparam | so ease the requirement on older content, but still don't make it too fast/easy to obtain |
| 23:53.40 | Mr_Rabies | it's going to be easy this expansion no matter what |
| 23:53.59 | Mr_Rabies | and the playerbase has had a good reaction to it overall |
| 23:54.03 | Mr_Rabies | so far |
| 23:54.16 | xyphoid | i kind of miss getting screwed on RNG on everything rather than just legendaries |
| 23:54.26 | Semlar | you mean like item rolls? |
| 23:54.26 | xyphoid | bring back trying to get your DST forever |
| 23:54.42 | Sharparam | well item rolls will be facerolled in 5.3 |
| 23:54.49 | Sharparam | drop chance increasing every time you don't get loot |
| 23:54.57 | Mr_Rabies | i think most cases of timegating are a bad idea unless it's a great reward with little skill required |
| 23:54.58 | Sharparam | on bonus rolls* |
| 23:55.59 | Sharparam | lfr would be better for everyone if they just turned it into "click button and receive some ranadomly selected loot for this week" |
| 23:57.12 | Mr_Rabies | that's basically what it is now, except with the requirement of spending a few hours a week humoring sociopaths |
| 23:57.15 | Sharparam | casuals would stop whining about not getting loot, elitists would stop complaining about casuals |
| 23:57.38 | Mr_Rabies | and your randomly selected loot is generally gold |
| 23:58.21 | Mr_Rabies | dailies though, i think are one of the leading causes to the game's recent playerbase shrink |
| 23:58.31 | Mr_Rabies | they're bad design through and through |
| 23:58.35 | Sharparam | but what would we all be doing without them |
| 23:58.53 | Sharparam | walk around pandaria enjoying the scenery? |
| 23:59.45 | Sharparam | other than rep, there's no need to do them |
| 23:59.48 | Mr_Rabies | i dunno, maybe stuff that was fun, and not getting burned out doing boring, lazy, nonstoryline, repetitive, time-consuming content to stay in our raiding guild |