| 00:02.11 | VIad | toe jam |
| 00:03.03 | Jammer | the time limits seem rather short in that competition |
| 00:03.25 | Jammer | dunno if can solve anything in 3min :p |
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| 00:12.46 | VIad | gotta fire yourself up Jammer |
| 00:13.00 | VIad | do the last years tasks until you ace all of them |
| 00:13.04 | VIad | to improve your chances :D |
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| 02:38.45 | pompy | http://i.imgur.com/PZJt8q9.jpg |
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| 03:42.52 | Arrowmaster | i have no idea what happened but my router died and was only brought back by a cold boot after waiting for all the power to discharge from it |
| 03:47.48 | kd3 | sounds like a cap's letting out the magic juice |
| 03:48.41 | Shirik | caps don't have magic juice |
| 03:48.43 | Shirik | they have magic foam |
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| 04:21.56 | Adys | http://www.systemcomic.com/2013/02/19/the-system-626-exasturbation/ |
| 04:35.57 | kd3 | whee |
| 04:35.58 | kd3 | thunder |
| 04:36.08 | smcn | thunder |
| 04:36.17 | smcn | thundercats, ho! |
| 04:36.44 | kd3 | *so* glad we're not going to get anywhere near freezing tonight |
| 04:52.48 | Shirik | I will never understand systemcomic.com |
| 04:58.37 | kd3 | uh-oh: Mosquitoes Beginning To Ignore DEET Repellent |
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| 05:11.48 | Semlar | that's cool, i use DDT |
| 05:27.28 | karl_w_w | kd3: there's conflicting reports on that |
| 05:28.28 | karl_w_w | some say beginning to ignore, but others seem to be saying they've always ignored it but we've only just found out |
| 05:32.44 | Semlar | for a placebo it works remarkably well |
| 05:33.27 | karl_w_w | we shouldn't be looking at repellants anyway |
| 05:33.36 | karl_w_w | we should be working out how to kill them all |
| 05:33.47 | Semlar | yeah, fuck mosquitos |
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| 05:34.41 | Semlar | they probably aren't that important to the ecosystem anyway |
| 05:35.21 | karl_w_w | they're the world's most dangeous animal |
| 05:36.03 | karl_w_w | the only ecosystem they improve is that of viruses |
| 05:36.34 | Semlar | it's not their fault |
| 05:36.38 | karl_w_w | http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100721/full/466432a.html |
| 05:36.55 | Semlar | it's not like they conjure up the diseases |
| 05:37.07 | Semlar | they just move them from one host to the next |
| 05:38.06 | Wobin | https://twitter.com/jtroyer/status/304813187642036224 |
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| 05:38.38 | Semlar | i can't help but notice this article mentions how devastating it would be to wipe them out |
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| 05:49.17 | karl_w_w | no it doesn't, Semlar? |
| 05:49.32 | Semlar | i only read far enough for it to back up my point and then ignored the rest |
| 05:49.45 | Semlar | you got a problem with that? |
| 05:51.26 | karl_w_w | no |
| 05:51.50 | karl_w_w | i didnt finish reading it either :P |
| 05:51.56 | Semlar | it's like a book |
| 05:52.14 | karl_w_w | but the overarching theme seems to be that in the vast majority of situations other insects will do. |
| 05:52.34 | Semlar | ah, but just how reliable is this information |
| 05:53.03 | Semlar | because if you're going to wipe out a species, you want to make damn sure you know what the effects are going to be |
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| 05:57.21 | Semlar | guam is a great example of this |
| 05:57.43 | Semlar | they basically got overrun by this invasive species of snake |
| 05:58.12 | Semlar | and it just decimated their bird population |
| 05:58.34 | Semlar | and without the birds, there are something like 40 times more spiders now |
| 05:59.06 | Semlar | so the place is just covered in snakes and spiders |
| 05:59.38 | karl_w_w | thats so hot |
| 06:03.43 | Semlar | ^_^ |
| 06:09.54 | karl_w_w | what are those things called which you use to lift stuff |
| 06:10.06 | karl_w_w | they have 2 wheels at the bottom |
| 06:10.28 | karl_w_w | and you slide it underneath heavy things |
| 06:10.29 | Semlar | truck? |
| 06:10.31 | Semlar | dolly |
| 06:10.39 | Semlar | hand truck |
| 06:11.11 | karl_w_w | indeed! |
| 06:11.28 | Semlar | i don't actually know if there's any difference between a hand truck and a dolly |
| 06:12.24 | karl_w_w | mister wikipedia seems to say not |
| 06:13.33 | Semlar | that's good enough for me! |
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| 06:28.12 | smcn | woo, finally enough haste on my priest for 8 dp ticks |
| 06:30.26 | Corv | I see GetTransmogrifySlotInfo, but what tells me transmog info for stuff in my bags? |
| 06:32.15 | smcn | probably have to scan tooltip |
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| 06:34.57 | Corv | I don't wanna hear that. |
| 06:35.05 | Corv | Don't wanna don't wanna don't wanna |
| 06:35.26 | smcn | when in doubt, scan the tooltip |
| 06:35.34 | Corv | See above. |
| 06:35.36 | smcn | still can't even get an item's bind status without scanning tooltip |
| 06:35.41 | Corv | I know =( |
| 06:35.47 | smcn | no one *wants* to scan tooltips :/ |
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| 07:28.31 | Adys | hm |
| 07:28.50 | Adys | i just realized but pets are actually an easy way to transfer gold between servers |
| 07:28.55 | Adys | and factions |
| 07:29.29 | Adys | in fact, with the right alts, they're a goldmine |
| 07:54.39 | zenzio | I think they've always been, although even more so now |
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| 08:02.51 | Adys | zenzio: "now" as in? |
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| 08:03.04 | Adys | because right now you can buy a pet on one server, cage it on another and resell it |
| 08:04.09 | zenzio | is this normal companion pets or fight pets? I get them confused |
| 08:04.26 | Adys | they're almost all fight pets now |
| 08:04.41 | Adys | but you can only re-cage pets that are acquired through an iterm |
| 08:06.39 | zenzio | I see. I'm clearly out of the loop |
| 08:08.20 | zenzio | can you do it with pets from quest rewards? IIRC you still get those as an item |
| 08:09.47 | Adys | yep |
| 08:10.35 | Adys | the only pets you cant recage are the ones you get from wild fights, and some very specific ones (blizzcon/collectors/non-fighting pets) |
| 08:10.53 | zenzio | I see |
| 08:11.02 | Adys | I'd laugh if I could recage my gurky |
| 08:11.13 | Adys | wonder if I could sell it for a million. |
| 08:11.41 | zenzio | wouldn't surprise me if you could have |
| 08:12.02 | Adys | given that the DMF pet easily sells up to 200k |
| 08:12.14 | Adys | and it's a lot easier to acquire |
| 08:12.17 | zenzio | I'd give away my Argent Squire just because I hate it |
| 08:13.47 | Adys | hm lol |
| 08:13.59 | Adys | wow |
| 08:14.26 | Adys | the cords hanging off the 3d belts have proper physics in the char select screen |
| 08:14.36 | Adys | that's extremely random |
| 08:14.52 | zenzio | how so? I never spend much time on that screen |
| 08:15.05 | Adys | do you have one of the new style belts? |
| 08:15.14 | Adys | the 3d ones |
| 08:15.14 | zenzio | no |
| 08:15.19 | Adys | cant really explain then |
| 08:15.25 | zenzio | fair enough |
| 08:15.46 | zenzio | well, I assume "new 3D ones" do not include Pandaria levelling gear |
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| 08:16.26 | Adys | they do |
| 08:16.34 | Adys | i saw it on my level 2 monk |
| 08:16.47 | zenzio | hm, I'll have to check next time I log in |
| 08:16.54 | Adys | they're obvious |
| 08:17.10 | zenzio | I*m remarkably unobservant sometimes :-x |
| 08:17.46 | Adys | sec |
| 08:18.15 | Adys | http://i.imgur.com/UCrXMdn.jpg |
| 08:18.16 | Adys | these |
| 08:19.18 | zenzio | hm, yeah |
| 08:19.47 | zenzio | how can you tell proper physics from just good animation? Do they react when you rotate the character or somesuch? |
| 08:22.46 | Adys | yep |
| 08:22.54 | Adys | they react to the velocity at which you're rotating it |
| 08:24.39 | smcn | cloaks in the old republic are physics-y, it's funny when you're going down an elevator and they start to float up behind you, you can strafe around in a circle and wrap it around your character |
| 08:27.06 | zenzio | that's pretty neat |
| 08:27.42 | zenzio | cloaks usually tend to seem so rigid. Understandable enough, but cool when they're more flexible |
| 08:28.28 | bleeter | randomly tackle hugs Adys |
| 08:28.33 | Adys | its kinda weird this belt that hangs around and the cloak that just... sticks like cement |
| 08:28.36 | zenzio | granted I only played SWTOR for a month or so at launch, I was disappointed by it. It felt much more like a single-player KotoR-ish game (which is nice, but I expected an MMO) |
| 08:28.51 | Adys | licks bleeter's falls |
| 08:29.09 | smcn | i really liked the single-player storyline stuff in tor |
| 08:29.23 | zenzio | it was a good story, mostly |
| 08:30.13 | zenzio | I didn't like the idea of dragging around a companion all the time. I suppose you could choose not to, but the game was clearly built with the assumption you'd have a helper |
| 08:30.13 | smcn | haven't been keeping up with tor news though, if i find out they've built on to the class-specific storylines i'd probably resub for a month or so |
| 08:30.48 | smcn | the sith warrior & imperial agent storylines were great but left wide open at the end |
| 08:31.11 | zenzio | I didn't finish the agent one I think. Was close though |
| 08:31.55 | zenzio | I was surprised at how easy it was to max out light side points on an imperial character, though it's not necessarily hard to believe in an MMO |
| 08:32.28 | smcn | the light-side storyline for sith warrior is great |
| 08:33.06 | smcn | you're basically subverting everything "evil" about the empire and working in secret with one of your companions to change it from the inside |
| 08:33.23 | zenzio | that's kind of cool |
| 08:33.57 | smcn | and by the end of the storyline you're basically one of the most important people in the empire (because it's a bioware game so of course you are), but then it's just left hanging |
| 08:34.25 | smcn | they really go into stuff you don't really know about the sith emperor if you just watch the movies |
| 08:34.30 | zenzio | one thing that I found interesting about SWTOR and TSW was that I had a decent time in both, but I just didn't have the compulsion to log in all the time, sort of forgot about them |
| 08:35.45 | zenzio | I'm cautiously hopeful for ESO, but not at all convinced they'll make it |
| 08:36.29 | smcn | nothing about an elder scrolls mmo interests me, i'd much rather just have some kind of borderlands/torchlight co-op campaign |
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| 08:36.51 | smcn | to make it an mmo you have to take out most of the free-form stuff that makes up elder scrolls |
| 08:37.09 | smcn | no fus ro dah'ing all the food off a table, no stealing everything off an npc then killing him |
| 08:37.26 | zenzio | true |
| 08:37.36 | zenzio | but I'll most likely try it out anyway just to see |
| 08:37.52 | smcn | yeah of course, mmo = beta = everyone will try it once :p |
| 08:38.05 | zenzio | I've always been fond of the Dark Brotherhood, would be nice if there was something like that that actually worked |
| 08:38.14 | zenzio | DB in Skyrim was an utter disappointment |
| 08:38.15 | smcn | but i think ultima online pre-trammel is probably more elder scrolls-like than a game made today can hope to be |
| 08:39.03 | smcn | it had some good beats, like getting into the coffin with the night mother |
| 08:39.28 | smcn | and cicero was the kind of annoying character you love to hate |
| 08:39.39 | zenzio | I was near furious about him |
| 08:40.07 | zenzio | here's this group of sneaky, murderous bastards... and their jester |
| 08:40.18 | zenzio | I think you're fairly right about "everyone will try". Obviously a bit exaggerrated, but I know I've tried a lot a few |
| 08:40.41 | zenzio | had about a month in SWG not long after launch, same with EQ2, SWTOR, TSW, AoC |
| 08:41.04 | zenzio | the only MMOs I've actually played at length are Anarchy Online and WoW |
| 08:42.36 | zenzio | AoC was fairly interesting, but at launch it had some annoying quirks, and the infamous sudden lack of levelling content at level ~40 or so |
| 08:42.41 | smcn | tor is the only other mmo i've gotten "in to", i wouldn't say i played it at length... after 2 months and release of the first content patch i had basically consumed everything the game had to offer short of playing through the storyline of each class |
| 08:43.08 | zenzio | yeah |
| 08:43.34 | zenzio | the SWTOR world(s) didn't really feel like a place I'd have much fun running around exploring when I had finished their quests |
| 08:43.51 | zenzio | I'm not sure "small" is the right word for them |
| 08:44.07 | smcn | planetville |
| 08:44.12 | smcn | i think is the term for it |
| 08:44.21 | smcn | you're not really "in" the world just a subset of it |
| 08:44.44 | smcn | unlike wow, azeroth is just the two, i mean three, i mean four continents and you can go anywhere |
| 08:45.01 | smcn | the "world" in every other mmo is more like outlands |
| 08:45.08 | smcn | just a floating island with no sense of place |
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| 08:49.08 | zenzio | Anarchy Online's a bit interesting that way. The zones are reasonably sized, and also their first expansion was an Outland-type |
| 08:50.20 | zenzio | many have argued that the expansion (Shadowlands) was too fantasy for a sci-fi MMO like AO, but I enjoyed it |
| 08:52.31 | smcn | heh i keep wondering when blizz is going to do a "scifi" expansion for wow, the steampunk stuff seems to get more extreme every patch. i guess outlands kind of qualifies, and the exodar is literally a spaceship |
| 08:53.35 | Corv | Yeah, TBC was hella sci-fi. |
| 08:54.03 | smcn | i want to actually fly on a spaceship |
| 08:54.21 | smcn | world of the old republic |
| 08:54.26 | Corv | Honestly, with the "grave" in Netherstorm and the Naaru/Protoss architecture similarities, I've long wondered if TBC re-used assets from SC:Ghost. |
| 08:54.29 | smcn | gnomes vs. jawas |
| 08:55.49 | zenzio | I'm always biased to BC because it was when I played most heavily, but it really was my favourite expansion |
| 08:55.58 | zenzio | the setting just clicked with me |
| 08:56.24 | zenzio | Corv: that's an interesting thought |
| 08:57.00 | Corv | I mean, really. Shattrath could practically be a Protoss spaceship. |
| 08:57.15 | Corv | The Ethereals are waaaaay too sci-fi for Warcraft. |
| 08:57.42 | Corv | The Burning Legion stuff looks really odd, I'm not sure it really fits either game. |
| 08:58.05 | zenzio | what do you mean by "Burning Legion stuff"? |
| 08:58.31 | Corv | The black, polyhedral, fel-flame-smoking stuff all around Hellfire, and other zones. |
| 08:58.48 | zenzio | ah, of course |
| 08:59.05 | zenzio | I'm not sure what to think of them. I didn't really know much about the Burning Legion before BC |
| 08:59.14 | Corv | Points on sticking out like a sore thumb. I guess if they just wanted it to look like it didn't belong, they succeeded. |
| 09:00.43 | Corv | My pet theory is that when Ghost was cancelled, they pulled assets into the upcoming WoW expansion and re-invented/retconned the Eredar/Draenei to give them an excuse. |
| 09:01.12 | Corv | Thus pushing back the announcement of the Alliance race, and leaving the previously planned race, the Pandaren, to be used as they were with *this* expansion. |
| 09:01.22 | zenzio | the eredar I could perhaps see as protoss-y, but the draenei seem out of place for SC |
| 09:01.48 | zenzio | BC would've been such a... mess if they'd introduced pandas |
| 09:02.12 | Corv | The Eredar were originally the Baddest Bad Guys in warcraft, in the original lore *they* corrupted Sargeras rather than vice versa. |
| 09:02.15 | zenzio | "Here, have this super-depressing world on the brink of destruction. Oh, and pandas. Sad pandas." |
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| 09:03.38 | Corv | I dunno what's planned after this expansion, but I wish they'd revise their policy against revisiting old expansion areas. |
| 09:03.40 | zenzio | I'm not a super-fan of SC, but I would be interested in Ghost |
| 09:03.49 | Corv | 'cause TBC left a couple of interesting openings. |
| 09:04.33 | Corv | Mostly, the additional Dark Portals. In Zangarmarsh, and Blade's Edge, and Nagrand. |
| 09:04.54 | Corv | There was also the bit in Shadowmoon with the arrakoa summoning something suspiciously like C'thun. |
| 09:05.02 | zenzio | yeah |
| 09:05.23 | Corv | And I've seen an interesting theory floated, by the blogger Rades, that the Naaru are actually *evil*. |
| 09:05.36 | Corv | Also, Ethereals. |
| 09:05.41 | Corv | Just, Ethereals. |
| 09:05.42 | Corv | Do want. |
| 09:05.55 | zenzio | indeed |
| 09:06.44 | Corv | Wrath gave us Titan stuff they could play off of too. Hopefully, in 5.2? |
| 09:06.44 | zenzio | it would be fun if Ouro (was that the name?) was actually a "pure" Naaru, and that A'dal and his pals only "saved" him to help conceal their malicious plans |
| 09:07.29 | zenzio | Titan stuff could be an idea, and possibly Kil'Jaeden. He only failed to enter, didn't die after all |
| 09:07.34 | Corv | Check Rades' blog, I'm pretty sure that's a part of his theory. They're just farming us, essentially. |
| 09:07.50 | zenzio | do you have an URL to his blog? The name doesn't ring a bell |
| 09:07.51 | Corv | He also suggests that the Azerothian deities are also (possibly rival factions of) Naaru. |
| 09:07.57 | Corv | orcisharmyknife.com |
| 09:08.13 | Corv | It's a bit back, he's written three posts on the subject with a fourth promised. |
| 09:08.30 | zenzio | cheers |
| 09:08.40 | zenzio | somehow I read that as "orc is harmy knife" at first |
| 09:09.07 | Corv | heh |
| 09:09.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal|work (~torhal_wo@76.164.170.2) |
| 09:09.46 | Corv | http://www.orcisharmyknife.com/search/label/naaru |
| 09:09.49 | smcn | "my knife" is the first thing i saw so i was trying to read it with that assumption :P |
| 09:10.01 | Corv | There you go: "Fading Light: Why the Naaru Should Be Evil" |
| 09:10.04 | smcn | orci shar my knife? what? |
| 09:10.32 | zenzio | Orcishar, my knife |
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| 09:40.31 | smcn | finally going to bed gn |
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| 10:52.57 | karl_w_w | hang the washing out |
| 10:53.18 | karl_w_w | rains for the first time in a month and a half |
| 10:56.23 | zenzio | now you're just being silly, everyone knows it doesn't rain in Australia |
| 11:00.58 | karl_w_w | oh man it's so nice |
| 11:01.21 | karl_w_w | this has genuinely got to be the first time in over 2 months that i've stopped sweating |
| 11:02.09 | zenzio | once when I visited Australia for a few weeks, it rained maybe two or three times, but man did it rain heavily when it did |
| 11:02.39 | karl_w_w | do you remember what month? |
| 11:02.45 | karl_w_w | and what city |
| 11:03.11 | zenzio | late July or early August, just north of Newcastle |
| 11:03.48 | karl_w_w | yeah |
| 11:05.39 | karl_w_w | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Western_Australian_storms looking forward to this march! |
| 11:06.15 | karl_w_w | there are still cars around riddled with dents in them since that |
| 11:06.55 | zenzio | :-o |
| 11:09.18 | karl_w_w | mostly ones that people bought cheap cos they were on car lots when it happened |
| 11:30.15 | *** join/#wowuidev VIad (~Vlad@128.121.45.31.customer.cdi.no) |
| 11:51.19 | VIad | the whole i5 and i7 debate, to me it seems the performance is marginally - don't know, been googling about it, but it doesn't seem performance is noticable at all, like 1-2 fps maybe, hardly deciding factor wouldn't you say? |
| 11:52.37 | zenzio | I gave up trying to find a concensus and just went with an i5. Works well enough for me |
| 11:53.06 | VIad | I'm just arguing the gaming performance loss when using i7 over i5 :P |
| 11:53.28 | VIad | it doesn't appear that big of a difference in practical terms, at least not to what I read |
| 11:54.23 | *** join/#wowuidev d[karl]b (~karl@61.116.96.58.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 11:54.37 | zenzio | I'm not sure to which degree it matters anymore, but I've typically felt the GPU to be more of an issue than the CPU for gaming |
| 11:57.01 | VIad | karl_w_w: :D |
| 11:58.19 | VIad | 1200W, 32GB ram, sli GTX690 4GB GPUs, SSD at 512GB, i7-3970X, only 7000$ :P |
| 11:59.23 | VIad | oh the LIES zenzio: http://i.imgur.com/W4xMzhl.jpg |
| 12:00.15 | zenzio | yeah, that's not how you insert a videocard |
| 12:00.33 | VIad | mine looks exactly like that, tilted to the side, sticking out of my case |
| 12:00.50 | VIad | on the other hand no gamer uses speakers, we all use headsets |
| 12:01.40 | zenzio | I don't entirely agree with that, but the speakers would have to be good |
| 12:01.55 | zenzio | after getting my new 5.1 headphones I'd have a hard time going back to speakers |
| 12:02.11 | VIad | no point having others at home listen to what you hear :D |
| 12:02.25 | VIad | also when gaming fps it's important to listen to sounds around you |
| 12:03.15 | zenzio | others at home? |
| 12:08.25 | VIad | zenzio: you know, visitors, neighbors, casper, animals, |
| 12:08.37 | VIad | headset gives more immersive feel if you ask me, good headset :3 |
| 12:08.42 | zenzio | my cats never had trouble with my speakers |
| 12:09.19 | zenzio | VIad: as I said, after getting my new headset I wouldn't go back |
| 12:09.25 | zenzio | but I had no real problem with speakers before |
| 12:10.43 | Corv | In practical terms, would you be able to link a piece of gear you own without being moused over it? |
| 12:10.50 | Corv | I wanna say no, without a macro/addon. |
| 12:11.23 | Arrowmaster | http://adamsblog.aperturelabs.com/2013/02/hdcp-is-dead-long-live-hdcp-peek-into.html |
| 12:12.10 | karl_w_w | <zenzio> I'm not sure to which degree it matters anymore, but I've typically felt the GPU to be more of an issue than the CPU for gaming <- generally yes, but wow is an exception |
| 12:15.34 | karl_w_w | Corv if you don't mouseover it and you don't use a macro or addon how are you going to link anything? |
| 12:16.25 | karl_w_w | <VIad> 1200W, 32GB ram, sli GTX690 4GB GPUs, SSD at 512GB, i7-3970X, only 7000$ <- lies, that's $2,500 worth of stuff |
| 12:16.58 | VIad | it's overpriced as shit :P |
| 12:17.18 | VIad | mostly the gpu, cpu, ssd :P |
| 12:17.24 | karl_w_w | no it isnt |
| 12:20.51 | VIad | ehm... I am saying the site selling the parts overprice them no? |
| 12:21.05 | VIad | since you say it's too expensive :P |
| 12:22.14 | karl_w_w | the shop i got those prices from works on razor thin margins |
| 12:38.21 | VIad | in norway usually the margin is higher :P |
| 13:02.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Darkchaos (~darkchaos@88.130.220.38) |
| 13:38.28 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 13:43.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (~Lopeppepp@141.222.29.125) |
| 13:43.07 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 13:49.39 | zenzio | happy Friday miss peppy! |
| 13:51.20 | *** join/#wowuidev shadow24821 (4bb74a5d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.75.183.74.93) |
| 13:53.50 | Lopeppeppy | Happy f'ing Friday, zenzio. I've already solved three problems and that's before I opened my email. Can I go home yet? Argh. |
| 13:54.14 | zenzio | sounds like a good idea to me. I'm leaving in about an hour, join me |
| 13:56.59 | karl_w_w | zenzio what was I about to look up? |
| 13:57.10 | Lopeppeppy | Mmm, kitty and girl and boy and NAP! |
| 13:57.50 | *** join/#wowuidev nevcairiel (nev@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/nevcairiel) |
| 13:57.56 | zenzio | karl_w_w: you were going to try to find out why your porn torrents are so slow lately |
| 13:58.57 | shadow24821 | hm, porn torrents as a wow addon. . . i'd install it |
| 13:59.24 | karl_w_w | http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/22/oscar-predictions-election-style/ ohshit |
| 14:03.48 | Adys | I AM SO FUCKING PROUD |
| 14:04.04 | Lopeppeppy | And who is that? |
| 14:04.12 | Adys | A guy I used to date. |
| 14:04.41 | zenzio | I must be missing something |
| 14:04.43 | Lopeppeppy | Neat. Have a good time. |
| 14:04.51 | Adys | One of my clients sent me photoshop mockups of her website and she asked me if they were clear enough |
| 14:05.00 | Adys | "I left some parts blank, I hope that's okay" |
| 14:05.17 | Adys | I managed to say "Don't you worry about blank, let me worry about blank" |
| 14:05.50 | Lopeppeppy | Whitespace is gooooood. |
| 14:06.40 | zenzio | if there's one thing I hate about work, it's customers |
| 14:07.02 | Adys | I love my clients |
| 14:07.08 | Adys | you just gotta know how to pick them. |
| 14:07.09 | Lopeppeppy | Seriously, work would be awesome without sheeple. |
| 14:15.26 | karl_w_w | hmm, might be worth a punt on tommy lee jones for best supporting :P |
| 14:19.10 | Lopeppeppy | But he's got such an awesome sarcastic voice. |
| 14:23.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Grum (~grum@c-64e2e555.06-134-73746f46.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 14:25.01 | shadow24821 | i just code while i'm working |
| 14:25.05 | shadow24821 | that makes everything ok |
| 14:25.22 | Lopeppeppy | unless your work is coding,and the sheeples are interruptions. |
| 14:25.55 | shadow24821 | eh, you'll figure it out. i usually just give them the finger |
| 14:26.02 | shadow24821 | but with a smile of course |
| 14:26.09 | shadow24821 | don't want to be angry about it |
| 14:31.10 | karl_w_w | mountain dew with caffeine in ie |
| 14:31.12 | karl_w_w | it |
| 14:31.14 | karl_w_w | what the what? |
| 14:32.37 | shadow24821 | i drink the local grocer's generic version |
| 14:32.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Grum (~grum@c-64e2e555.06-134-73746f46.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 14:32.41 | shadow24821 | mountain lion |
| 14:34.02 | karl_w_w | yeah there is a generic version near me as well |
| 14:34.09 | karl_w_w | mountain christian |
| 14:34.41 | shadow24821 | how's the taste? |
| 14:36.03 | karl_w_w | child molesty |
| 14:37.43 | shadow24821 | odd |
| 14:39.41 | Lopeppeppy | Feed the christians to the lions, then what do you get? |
| 14:42.28 | shadow24821 | jews |
| 14:42.58 | shadow24821 | that or lion poop |
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| 15:41.49 | *** join/#wowuidev g0urra (~g0urra@unaffiliated/gourra) |
| 16:02.15 | Fisker | i was the ultimate good guy today Lopeppeppy |
| 16:04.54 | TC-work | Lies Fisker |
| 16:04.55 | TC-work | lies |
| 16:05.02 | Fisker | :( |
| 16:05.10 | Shirik | hey Fisker |
| 16:05.10 | Fisker | bluspacecow won't appreciate that |
| 16:05.17 | Shirik | scroll down to credits http://www.cryptozoic.com/downloads/files/wow_cr_v7.2_130223.pdf |
| 16:05.19 | Fisker | hey Shirik |
| 16:05.20 | Fisker | nope |
| 16:05.20 | Shirik | you jelly? |
| 16:05.39 | Fisker | i got a call from morocco |
| 16:05.42 | Fisker | why would i ever be jelly? |
| 16:05.49 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower (~textual@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 16:05.49 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ |
| 16:05.57 | End_ | fisker is only jam |
| 16:06.05 | End_ | never jelly |
| 16:06.29 | Fisker | Shirik should make his own PC company |
| 16:06.33 | Fisker | i'd buy a Del Buono |
| 16:06.40 | Fisker | and Dell would sue for trademark confusion |
| 16:07.24 | Lopeppeppy | Oh look, there's a Jennifer listed! |
| 16:07.30 | Lopeppeppy | plays innocent at Shirik. |
| 16:07.40 | Fisker | is it a Lopeppeppy ? |
| 16:07.48 | Lopeppeppy | Nope, not a Peppy. |
| 16:12.19 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 16:24.39 | karl_w_w | if you send a letter bomb to another country which country's crimes should you face? |
| 16:27.14 | *** join/#wowuidev bjelleklang (~chris@wikipedia/Bjelleklang) |
| 16:27.39 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 16:28.54 | TC-work | Usually your own. As a way of keeping the peace, your own country would judge you harsher than normal. |
| 16:29.05 | Rythal | depends on who your letter bombing and if they deserve it |
| 16:33.48 | karl_w_w | 32gb usb 3.0 thumb drive for $16 |
| 16:33.50 | karl_w_w | wat |
| 16:35.40 | Fisker | wat karl_w_w |
| 16:38.16 | karl_w_w | ikr |
| 16:38.28 | karl_w_w | that's soupuh cheap |
| 16:40.50 | shadow24821 | is it poor quality? |
| 16:47.27 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 16:47.49 | kd3 | grah - too much water in the phone lines |
| 16:48.16 | Fisker | shadow24821 they're counterfeit nand chips with painted usb port |
| 16:49.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaylin (~Kaylin@c-67-201-227-55.reshall.wwu.edu) |
| 16:57.39 | kd3 | emails out (a whole one-line diff!) |
| 16:58.04 | Fisker | so basically spam? |
| 17:03.40 | MysticalOS | don't worry kd3, they will have another build out early next week with probably no diff. :p |
| 17:03.46 | MysticalOS | and it'll be like 1.2 gigs for sure |
| 17:17.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Arrow|tablet (~arrow@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ResponsibleForEverythingAndNothing/Arrowmaster) |
| 17:38.42 | End_ | why doesn |
| 17:38.43 | End_ | blah |
| 17:39.13 | End_ | why doesn't that just say minLevel or MIN_BONUS_HONOR_LEVEL |
| 17:39.38 | End_ | oh well, doesn't matter |
| 17:42.14 | karl_w_w | why doesnt what say minLevel |
| 17:43.48 | karl_w_w | oh i see |
| 17:44.51 | karl_w_w | because the blizz guys are good at making the LUA work! |
| 17:45.14 | karl_w_w | Never once do they forget the semicolon! |
| 17:45.27 | End_ | like I said, it doesn't really matter, but it was easy to notice since it was the only changed line in the diff |
| 17:46.03 | karl_w_w | it doesn't matter on its own |
| 17:47.25 | karl_w_w | it does matter though on principle. when they have 1 change to make to the entire ui and they do it wrong, you have to wonder what it is they're doing |
| 17:47.47 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 17:47.53 | karl_w_w | it's almost like all the best coders went off to work on titans and the interns are doing the ui |
| 17:48.07 | karl_w_w | to work on Titan* |
| 17:49.01 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@c83-250-218-181.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 17:49.01 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 17:49.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@client00111.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 17:49.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 17:51.10 | Semlar | can i be an intern? |
| 17:51.18 | karl_w_w | i dont know |
| 17:51.22 | karl_w_w | probably |
| 17:51.25 | Semlar | plz? |
| 17:51.37 | karl_w_w | are you willing to sleep with the boss? |
| 17:51.43 | Semlar | maybe |
| 17:53.25 | shadow24821 | oh man, lua error, i haven't seen those before |
| 17:53.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (amarande@24-151-15-23.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 17:54.08 | shadow24821 | it seems to be a loop to count how many times i have caught the stupids |
| 17:54.23 | Amarande | hmm. have any of you heard about a "corrupted server" on WoW? |
| 17:54.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Jitta (Jitta@91-65-41-255-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 17:54.34 | Amarande | guild's fb page posted this last night: "This just in be warned that wow has a corrupted server it Can dump your toons becareful. there is a chance just being on can mess with your toons gear and things like that. will keep you updated when i know more pass this on to your guildies." |
| 17:55.44 | karl_w_w | holy fuck |
| 17:56.08 | kd3 | doubt it. strongly |
| 17:56.12 | karl_w_w | i would gquit that guild on the spot |
| 17:56.19 | kd3 | also, ^ |
| 17:57.23 | karl_w_w | That guild's name showing above your head = "I'm with stupid" t-shirt |
| 17:57.57 | karl_w_w | ironically, that would be a pretty cool name for a guild :P |
| 17:58.49 | Semlar | <Facebook> |
| 17:59.26 | karl_w_w | only 1 guild with that name (on US) http://us.battle.net/wow/en/guild/gilneas/I%27m_With_Stupid/ |
| 17:59.34 | Amarande | LOL |
| 18:00.07 | Amarande | actually, so far, apart from our inability to get a raid group together (which we're having yet another guild meeting about this afternoon) this guild has functioned rather well and friendly |
| 18:00.09 | pnorman | Hmm, you can now use ' in guild names? When I checked you couldn't |
| 18:00.24 | Amarande | I'm just trying to figure out if there's actually a problem with the WoW servers to be wary of or if someone's been trolled |
| 18:00.52 | Semlar | trollllllll |
| 18:00.57 | Semlar | or just stupid |
| 18:01.07 | Semlar | same thing, raelly |
| 18:01.38 | Semlar | i meant to do that |
| 18:01.56 | Amarande | however, it's getting to the point where I may have to start looking for another guild anyway, since I'm starting to get to the point where there is less and less to get from LFR and we still haven't managed to put together an A team this far down the line |
| 18:01.59 | Amarande | well, if I stay with wow, even |
| 18:02.07 | karl_w_w | no there's totally a chance that a wow server has become irrecoverably corrupted for the first time in nearly a decade and there aren't thousands of people on forums and news sites talking about it |
| 18:02.11 | karl_w_w | that seems likely to me |
| 18:02.32 | Amarande | I'm starting to feel that burnout of the sort where I think "hmm, maybe I'll just finish loremaster and then unsub for a while" :S |
| 18:02.33 | Semlar | hey, they could have gotten hacked and are just wildly misinterpreting what happened |
| 18:02.36 | Shadowed | what is this minLevel or MIN_BONUS_HONOR_LEVEL stuff? |
| 18:02.56 | karl_w_w | the last ptr ui diff |
| 18:03.02 | Shadowed | I don't get emailed on diffs anymore |
| 18:03.28 | karl_w_w | http://codepad.org/RW0L9aXQ |
| 18:04.05 | Amarande | Semlar: yeah, that's probably the most likely thing to have happened. sadly, we've had a few guildies get hacked over time if I recall :| |
| 18:04.06 | Shadowed | that's it |
| 18:04.18 | Shadowed | that's just dumb to complain about |
| 18:04.28 | Semlar | that is a crazy way to write that |
| 18:04.29 | Amarande | given that there are over five hundred individuals in the guild, it's not unlikely for it to occur :( |
| 18:04.41 | karl_w_w | i dont think any1 is complaining about it |
| 18:04.54 | TC-work | Shadowed: If you are getting them from kd3, let him know. |
| 18:04.57 | karl_w_w | i'm complaining about the pattern it's representative of |
| 18:05.08 | Amarande | but yeah, the fact that we have 500+ people in guild and we STILL can't get a regular raid group together isn't good. *sigh* |
| 18:05.10 | Shadowed | Yes |
| 18:05.21 | Shadowed | one bit of redundant code means that WoW is falling apart |
| 18:05.23 | kd3 | waits for gmail to load... |
| 18:05.26 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 18:05.27 | Amarande | starting to feel like going back to Middle-Earth or buying D3 finally |
| 18:05.37 | Shadowed | TC-work I just don't care enough about diffs at this point :P |
| 18:05.46 | karl_w_w | no it doesn't Shadowed |
| 18:05.51 | Shadowed | I'm not writing anything new and if something breaks, someone will complain |
| 18:06.23 | Amarande | besides, it's not code that will cause wow to fall apart ultimately anyway. it'll be when they run out of stuff and we succumb to ennui :S |
| 18:06.25 | Semlar | people complain even when something doesn't break |
| 18:06.31 | Shadowed | yea but I don't care about this people |
| 18:06.32 | Shadowed | so it's ok |
| 18:06.42 | karl_w_w | the ui being a buggy and inconsistent mess since the start of mists means that the ui is a buggy and inconsistent mess |
| 18:06.55 | Shadowed | Are we playing two different games |
| 18:07.05 | Amarande | karl: the UI has been a buggy and inconsistent mess since the start of (INSERT_CURRENT_EXPANSION_HERE) |
| 18:07.13 | Shadowed | Are you perhaps playing a chinese ripoff game called "Mysts of Pandaria" |
| 18:07.19 | kd3 | ./msg me an email address and I'll put you back on the list... (not sure how you got taken off?) |
| 18:07.26 | Shadowed | I asked like |
| 18:07.28 | Shadowed | 4 years ago :P |
| 18:07.28 | karl_w_w | but this expansion takes it to a whole new level |
| 18:07.29 | Amarande | every time a new xpac releases, people's UI stuff breaks and it's various degrees of pain to fix it |
| 18:07.39 | Amarande | Shadowed: Mysts of Pandaria, new on the Nintendo Polystation 2? |
| 18:07.44 | Shadowed | yes exactly |
| 18:07.45 | karl_w_w | im talking about the default ui not addons |
| 18:07.52 | Shadowed | so am I |
| 18:08.01 | Amarande | ah ... it's been ages since I've used the default UI in toto |
| 18:08.04 | karl_w_w | previous @ Amarande |
| 18:08.27 | kd3 | ah, found the logs. you asked me to take you off back in 2011 |
| 18:08.29 | Amarande | I guess I don't need to insert my usual barb against All Rights Reserved then :| |
| 18:08.31 | Shadowed | sounds right |
| 18:08.42 | Fisker | ./msg me an email address |
| 18:08.43 | Shadowed | that wasn't a complaint against you kd3, I know I don't get emailed on them :P |
| 18:08.49 | Fisker | did you get it kd3 ? |
| 18:08.57 | Shadowed | If you want to blame people for ARR addons |
| 18:08.59 | Shadowed | blame wowmatrix |
| 18:09.07 | Shadowed | and the community that supported them |
| 18:09.11 | karl_w_w | or world of addons |
| 18:09.17 | Fisker | just like ARR ideas |
| 18:09.32 | Fisker | should've patented it when i could |
| 18:12.32 | Amarande | Shadowed: yeah, that's true, although it seems to me a bit foot-shooting to base one's licencing upon simply being able to get back at douchebags, which seems to have been the major impetus |
| 18:12.46 | Shadowed | I feel like we've had this argument before |
| 18:13.03 | Amarande | I can understand people who'd always been ARR being pissed off, but apparently people actively switched from FOSS licencing to ARR after that JUST to be able to punish places like wowmatrix and ten ton |
| 18:13.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Antiarc (~Instantbi@ip68-228-239-120.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 18:13.23 | Amarande | mind you, I've always had a bit of hate for ten ton ever since it took me weeks longer than it should've to get into ICC back in the day due to GearScore elitists, but ... :P |
| 18:13.29 | Shadowed | I'm not going to rehash 5 year old arguments. But suffice to say, you're wrong and it wasn't able punishing |
| 18:15.51 | Amarande | but yeah, the main issue I have with ARR is simply this, that it certainly does create a noticeable amount of extra redundant work |
| 18:16.04 | Amarande | it's really the same argument against aggressive IPR in software in general |
| 18:16.29 | Amarande | namely, that the rights have a tendency to result in people needing to reinvent the wheel for no other reason but rights existing preventing them from using what's already there |
| 18:16.31 | foxlit | people pay lip service to licensing terms at best |
| 18:17.24 | Amarande | It's why FOSS makes sense. You figure out how to do something once, and then for the most part you don't need to invest time and effort into creating a new way to do it. You can spend that time and effort on finding ways to do *new* things. |
| 18:18.31 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@c83-250-218-181.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 18:18.31 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 18:19.28 | Amarande | however, when it comes to xpacks, the issue with ARR is this: x.0 patches tend to break a large number of addons |
| 18:19.48 | Amarande | meanwhile, a lot of the people who developed addons to do foo last expansion have left the WoW community altogether due to end of expansion ennui |
| 18:20.10 | foxlit | Which spawns a bazillion "FooAddon (Fan fix)" patches that don't give a damn if the original authors don't want them. |
| 18:20.23 | Amarande | therefore, unless you can reach those people, you pretty much have to take the dev effort to make an *all new addon*, because you aren't really allowed to use the old one's code anymore due to ARR |
| 18:20.41 | Amarande | oftentimes, people don't want to take the effort to do that, especially if it was a high-effort addon to begin with, and ultimately the player loses options |
| 18:21.44 | foxlit | don't confuse "I don't want to patch that piece of junk" with "I actually care about licensing and can't help you despite wanting to" |
| 18:23.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Neffi (a3ee2139@gateway/web/freenode/ip.163.238.33.57) |
| 18:23.30 | Fisker | that's not really an issue with ARR anyway |
| 18:23.53 | Fisker | author should make it public domain or give the project to another one willing to take it over |
| 18:23.56 | Fisker | before he leaves |
| 18:24.03 | Neffi | Semlar: What it you who was arguing that higher-resolutions like 4K and "retina" displays were beneficial? |
| 18:24.04 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 18:24.07 | Neffi | This was a few weeks ago |
| 18:24.08 | Fisker | short of anyone dying that shouldn't be an issue |
| 18:24.13 | Semlar | no |
| 18:25.09 | Amarande | heh retina displays |
| 18:25.22 | Amarande | it's going to be a long long time till those are practical on anything but a smartphone or small laptop :) |
| 18:25.55 | Amarande | would be nice to see them on a desktop, but till you can show me the GPU that can run something like 9600x resolution, we can't have it heh |
| 18:25.56 | Neffi | Well I argued with somebody that it was useless. I was wrong. |
| 18:26.05 | Neffi | http://filmicgames.com/archives/698 http://filmicgames.com/archives/860 |
| 18:26.19 | Neffi | The conclusion is actually that "retina" displays are not good enough |
| 18:27.21 | Neffi | In practice you're better off using something with a high but not insanely high DPI and using antialiasing on everything, in terms of GPU power |
| 18:27.39 | Neffi | In this case it all boils down to DPI versus viewing distance, so the DPI need not be high for most devices |
| 18:27.51 | Neffi | (eg not the crazy 400+ values people are asking for) |
| 18:29.39 | cbreak | in research they often use "angular resolution" |
| 18:30.05 | cbreak | i.E. they give distances between objects not in cm or pixel, but in degrees and minutes |
| 18:30.11 | Neffi | Meaning the quality of aliased hard-edges? |
| 18:30.16 | Neffi | oh, that |
| 18:31.42 | Amarande | Yeah, you're probably right, since the resolutions required for retina DPI on anything larger than a tablet or MacBook are horrendous |
| 18:31.57 | Neffi | This has inspired me to write an anti-aliasing algorithm for text settings that approximates the behavior of ink: http://www.bit-101.com/blog/?p=2722 |
| 18:32.06 | Amarande | We'll probably be at Skymont at least by the time we have anything resembling the kind of computer power it would take to do it on a desktop |
| 18:32.32 | Neffi | Given a high DPI and a good antialiasing for text, it would make reading on small, high-DPI smartphones screens much nicer |
| 18:32.59 | Neffi | Well, when you scale up to a larger screen, you get more battery space |
| 18:33.24 | Amarande | Consider a typical 24" desktop screen |
| 18:33.39 | Amarande | that's about a 20" wide display when you calculate it out, for a 16:10 |
| 18:33.57 | Neffi | So it's not all that impractical. But desktop environments work differently, and practical application comes into it. I definitely want to see more 14" 1080p laptops. But seeing crazy 1600p 13-inchers is ridiculous. |
| 18:34.07 | Neffi | Waste of money, waste of battery life, waste of heat budget |
| 18:34.32 | cbreak | they look great though :) |
| 18:34.33 | Amarande | now to take this wiki quote: "Raymond Soneira, president of DisplayMate Technologies, has challenged Apple's claim. He says that the physiology of the human retina is such that there must be at least 477 pixels per inch in a pixelated display for the pixels to resolve (become imperceptible to the human eye) at a distance of 12 inches (305 mm)" |
| 18:34.47 | cbreak | text is so smooth, much better than you can do with any anti aliasing |
| 18:35.01 | Neffi | The problem is, the eye is a lot more complex than an imaging sensor. |
| 18:35.07 | Amarande | 20" wide at 477 DPI comes out to 9540 pixels wide, so at 16:10 that's about a 9600x6000 resolution needed |
| 18:35.10 | Neffi | You can't really say "this is the DPI where it stops" |
| 18:35.22 | Neffi | The stages of visual processing muddy that up even more |
| 18:35.24 | Amarande | Sure, we have the panel technology for it. Just make a MacBook Retina panel bigger. |
| 18:35.46 | Neffi | If you're gonna make claims that pixels are indistinguishable, then you need to target WORST case. 300 PPI is probably not close. |
| 18:35.55 | Amarande | But we've got nowhere near the GPU technology to drive that high a resolution at any reasonable framerate, nor do we have the computer power to handle that resolution in gaming. |
| 18:36.00 | cbreak | making such high res screens is extremely expensive |
| 18:36.11 | cbreak | GPU power is probably not an issue |
| 18:36.16 | cbreak | unless you want to play games |
| 18:36.33 | Neffi | cbreak: I mentioned using a 300-DPI display with antialiasing. Compare the iPhone screen to a well-printed magazine. The comparison is no contest. iPhone screen loses. |
| 18:36.53 | cbreak | Neffi: depends. |
| 18:36.53 | Amarande | well that's not surprising |
| 18:36.59 | Amarande | fonts are usually rendered antialiased, no? |
| 18:37.01 | cbreak | Neffi: do you have environment light or do you not? :) |
| 18:37.07 | Neffi | I'm gonna look into antialiasing techniques. I'd like to see if a sub-pixel antialiaser can be designed to approximate the behavior of ink (liquid tension). It makes for nice text. |
| 18:37.11 | Amarande | and even an inexpensive B&W laser printer these days does 600dpi at the very least |
| 18:37.31 | cbreak | Neffi: sub pixel AA has many constraints, if you are not exact, you'll get rainbow colored text edges |
| 18:37.55 | cbreak | exact meaning balancing luminance |
| 18:37.56 | Neffi | I assume so. I've never delved into it. |
| 18:38.24 | Amarande | You're comparing a screen with a printout that's likely several times as many DPI, AA is not going to handle that large a difference |
| 18:38.39 | Amarande | Especially since you probably hold the phone a lot closer to your eyes than the magazine |
| 18:38.48 | Neffi | Amarande: The admittedly nice thing about going with double- or quad-factors of current resolutions is pixel doubling. Render text and hard-edged UI elements at full res, and render games doubled. |
| 18:39.04 | cbreak | compare images in said high res magazines with the retina screen equivalent |
| 18:39.10 | cbreak | no contest, screens win. |
| 18:39.25 | cbreak | why? Because print has to dither/raster to get any color resolution at all |
| 18:39.30 | Neffi | A game rendered at 1080p on a 4K screen should look no different than on a 1080p screen (unless you get very close, and maybe not even then) since you just move 1 pixel into 4 pixels. |
| 18:39.51 | Amarande | cbreak: also high density colour doubtless requires certain sacrifices |
| 18:39.52 | cbreak | screens can have 8 bit or 10 bit luminance resolution per channel |
| 18:40.01 | Amarande | you really can't just "lay on the colour more thickly" in print |
| 18:40.11 | Neffi | Amarande: See this: http://www.bit-101.com/blog/?p=2722. Ink gets free DPI because ink naturally anti-aliases due to surface tension. |
| 18:40.16 | Amarande | viz. how badly the toner will flake on many colour lasers if you print a colour heavy image |
| 18:40.16 | cbreak | of course, you lose some of that to gamma adjustment |
| 18:40.53 | Neffi | I also think the "ink look" is nice, where close edges are not hard. It's more pleasant to read, which is why I wanted to develop a text renderer that acts like it (even if I'm not actually pushing up the AA detail). |
| 18:40.54 | Amarande | I have a Phaser 740 down in the garage. I remember when I used to use it, if I printed anything that was too dense in terms of colours (especially dark ones), the toner would flake off the page |
| 18:41.09 | Amarande | so yeah, I can see the colour image printing thing to be a pretty major tech challenge |
| 18:43.03 | Amarande | I don't print in colour anymore though. The Phaser sadly developed some horrid streaking issues and I didn't feel like hauling it in to a Xerox repair shop |
| 18:43.22 | Amarande | so I picked up a nice reliable Lexmark B&W laser from newegg about five years ago and have been using that instead since. I really don't miss colour printing much. |
| 18:44.04 | Adys | anyone has any idea whether the issue with pet qualities showing wrong at the beginning of a pet fight is fixed in 5.2? |
| 18:44.05 | Adys | kd3? |
| 18:44.25 | Amarande | Adys: pet qualities show wrong at the beginning of a pet fight? |
| 18:44.31 | Amarande | I've never quite noticed that. Example? |
| 18:44.42 | Adys | they shorly show based on your most recent fight |
| 18:45.05 | Adys | eg. if you fought a trainer with 3 rare pets, your next wild pet will show as 3 rares in the topright bit for a short instant |
| 18:45.08 | cbreak | Amarande: the main problem with color gradients in print is that you can not vary it |
| 18:45.15 | cbreak | either you put color somewhere, or you do not. |
| 18:45.24 | Amarande | huh. didn't notice that, but then I have at least one battle pet addon installed which may have had an effect on that |
| 18:45.41 | cbreak | so if you have a 600dpi printer, and want to print a 50% gray "TEXT", then that TEXT will be rastered with a dither pattern |
| 18:45.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Julith (~julith@i577B5899.versanet.de) |
| 18:45.46 | cbreak | you lose 50% resolution |
| 18:45.54 | kd3 | dunno - I don't mess with the pet battle system |
| 18:46.17 | Amarande | of course, also, it's been a while since I did a trainer battle |
| 18:46.21 | cbreak | if you want to print 256 grayscale gradients, then you have only one eight of the resolution, so maybe 75 dpi |
| 18:46.38 | Amarande | I focus on fighting pets that I can actually capture :P |
| 18:50.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Beautiuz (~Beautiuz@ip51cd1520.speed.planet.nl) |
| 19:02.55 | bleeter | now tell me this doesn't look like a sonic screwdriver http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/21/business/tva-and-babcock-wilcox-in-nuclear-reactor-deal.html |
| 19:03.48 | tharper | god afton |
| 19:03.57 | Neffi | .. |
| 19:04.00 | tharper | hi |
| 19:04.02 | tharper | =p |
| 19:04.14 | Neffi | UnitGUID is guaranteed to be unique for every unit on a given server. How is this handled on CRZ? |
| 19:04.18 | Neffi | Any chance of GUID collision? |
| 19:04.27 | Neffi | (Also, for shared BG, raids, dungeons, etc) |
| 19:04.46 | nevcairiel | i think guids are unique in battle groups |
| 19:04.56 | Beautiuz | its uniq within a battle group (or at least it was) |
| 19:05.51 | Semlar | it's been unique to the battlegroup at least since they've had cross realm battlegrounds |
| 19:06.11 | bleeter | randomly tackle hugs tharper |
| 19:06.12 | bleeter | god kväll |
| 19:06.18 | tharper | how's it going/ |
| 19:06.28 | nevcairiel | they had cross realm battlegrounds before they told us the GUIDs, didnt they? .p |
| 19:06.46 | Beautiuz | see http://www.wowwiki.com/API_UnitGUID |
| 19:06.49 | Amarande | Neffi: well-generated GUIDs are supposed to collide *extremely* rarely, by design |
| 19:06.54 | Beautiuz | search for "Cross-server and GUID "uniqueness"" |
| 19:07.06 | Amarande | they should do this regardless of whether GUIDs are being generated from one or multiple sources |
| 19:07.24 | bleeter | tharper: to pinch a line from DNA, 'The regular early morning yell of horror was the sound of bleeter waking up and suddenly remembering where he was.' ;) |
| 19:07.26 | Neffi | BGs are no longer strictly battlegroup specific |
| 19:07.28 | Amarande | A GUID generator that regularly collides if you have more than one such process generating GUIDs, is a bad GUID generator. |
| 19:07.31 | tharper | LOL |
| 19:07.41 | tharper | DNA? isn't that from Colour of Magic? |
| 19:08.02 | bleeter | tharper: douglas noel adams |
| 19:08.06 | tharper | ah |
| 19:08.10 | Semlar | that sounds like terry pratchet |
| 19:08.11 | Amarande | Hell, keep in mind that even if you pick GUIDs at absolutely random, it's likely to take what, something in the *billions* of them before you generate a duplicate? |
| 19:08.15 | tharper | I thought that was terry pratchett quote |
| 19:08.17 | tharper | yeah it does |
| 19:08.26 | Amarande | hmm. what's the "birthday threshold" for 128-bit integers? |
| 19:08.28 | tharper | nope |
| 19:08.29 | Neffi | Well it might be a very good GUID generator. But does the unit GUID generator guarantee non-collisions by encoding something unique? |
| 19:08.30 | tharper | Arthur Dent |
| 19:08.31 | tharper | apparently |
| 19:08.36 | tharper | is the replaced for "bleeter" |
| 19:08.44 | tharper | pretty sure Rincewind did the exact same thing |
| 19:08.48 | tharper | replacement* |
| 19:08.54 | bleeter | http://www.wowbagger.com/chapter1.htm |
| 19:08.59 | Lopeppeppy | As in, the late Arthur Dent. :) |
| 19:09.05 | nevcairiel | Neffi: the actual id is just incremented for every player, and then every server has a specific prefix, or something like that |
| 19:09.22 | bleeter | hmmm, Warcraft could almost do with a character called 'bagger' ;) |
| 19:09.34 | bleeter | gets his coat |
| 19:09.44 | Amarande | Blizzard's been good with non-collision of GUIDs, though, it's how Rust Storm was able to work viably in D2 as I understand. |
| 19:10.11 | Beautiuz | Are there any alternatives for AceGUI? |
| 19:10.25 | Amarande | or as viably as it could, given that item dupers learned about it and tried as hard as possible to avoid triggering rust storm conditions |
| 19:10.36 | bleeter | Lopeppeppy: no, the late Dent Arthur Dent :P |
| 19:10.54 | Amarande | and afaik if you only ever do solo runs you'd *never* trigger RS except the times when Blizzard did a full maintenance run |
| 19:11.23 | Neffi | Beautiuz: For what? Settings dialog? Window? |
| 19:11.24 | Semlar | Beautiuz: what are you looking for |
| 19:11.46 | Amarande | actually, that's one thing I really wish they'd added in to later patches of D2 compared to WoW, though |
| 19:12.00 | Beautiuz | for configuration of an addon, using AceGUI now but its quite limited. Its a big configuration |
| 19:12.13 | Amarande | the ability to see more detailed technical details of a given item (e.g., how addons like Auctioneer Suite give kitchen-sink info pretty much on every item in the tooltip in WoW) |
| 19:12.27 | nevcairiel | you can always do everything manually, no framework will give you 100% freedom =po |
| 19:12.29 | nevcairiel | -o |
| 19:13.09 | Beautiuz | true, but its not too easy with AceGUI |
| 19:13.10 | Amarande | it might have helped people avoid duped items, especially, since you'd have been able to see the item ID#, and people would have been able to make do not trade lists based on that rather than blacklisting all instances of a given item |
| 19:13.22 | Beautiuz | For example, i got atm this in the configuration: http://www.curseforge.com/media/images/26/941/FilterEditor.png |
| 19:13.45 | Amarande | nev: I thought they encoded unit info into mob GUIDs in particular, though? |
| 19:13.53 | Amarande | at least I remember hearing about that some years ago, back during wrath I think |
| 19:14.05 | Beautiuz | and im not happy with the spacing between the elements, but that is almost not changeable |
| 19:14.30 | Neffi | http://www.wowpedia.org/GUID |
| 19:14.32 | Amarande | which made me wonder if a "loot spy" addon could be made, though IIRC someone said that wasn't possible |
| 19:14.34 | Beautiuz | http://www.wowwiki.com/API_UnitGUID |
| 19:14.47 | Lopeppeppy | Okay, it's catalog season. And I'm hunting catalogs! |
| 19:14.59 | nevcairiel | such frameworks dont typically give you much choice about the style of the widgets |
| 19:14.59 | Beautiuz | loot isnt in a guid |
| 19:15.01 | Semlar | there is a little unit info in the guid |
| 19:15.06 | nevcairiel | if you dont like it, dont use it |
| 19:15.06 | Beautiuz | guid's dont change |
| 19:15.15 | Semlar | like the type and the npc id |
| 19:15.24 | Amarande | Beautiuz: as a general rule loot is decided when a mob spawns though, not when it dies or is looted |
| 19:15.44 | Beautiuz | okay, didnt think of that yea |
| 19:15.53 | Beautiuz | but still it isnt included in the guid |
| 19:15.54 | Amarande | (not sure how LFR-style looting or progressive loot for quests handles in that, but yeah, that's a general rule) |
| 19:16.20 | Beautiuz | nev: thats why i asked if there where others worth of looking into |
| 19:16.31 | Amarande | ah yes. I remember speculating when the GUID system was first introduced that they'd have put all the necessary unit data into the ID |
| 19:16.42 | Amarande | but yeah, that would result in lootspy addons, which would be just unfair :) |
| 19:17.09 | Amarande | I can't even imagine what that would do to the game LOL |
| 19:18.02 | Amarande | (I can mainly think lots of douchebaggy kicking of people from groups before boss fights if the group leader detects that the boss will, in fact, drop the mount this time heh :P) |
| 19:18.18 | Neffi | Ah, I don't remember this being on the Wiki page: Uniqueness is guaranteed in cross-realm battlegrounds by masking the player GUID with a server specific unique identifier, when needed. |
| 19:18.35 | Neffi | Since you can hit units not in your BG, the BG identifier isn't necessarily unique, and that's what confused me |
| 19:18.38 | Amarande | Neffi: not surprising, it's just like how same names are handled in CRZs/BGs |
| 19:18.43 | Beautiuz | that "when needed" seems strange as they dont change |
| 19:19.02 | Amarande | which apparently is one of the main reasons cited for why Blizzard avoids doing server mergers |
| 19:19.16 | Neffi | Beautiuz: I'm guessing if it detects two players in the same instance with the same battlegroup ID and same player UID, it masks it with a server UID |
| 19:19.28 | Beautiuz | but are guid always the same and uniq, or just uniq for yourself |
| 19:19.30 | Amarande | they have a painless system in place for when you're in a cross-realmed zone and have the same name. this has been the case ever since cross-realm battlegrounds. |
| 19:19.46 | Beautiuz | so that 1 id can be different to two players, but always the same to those 2 players |
| 19:19.48 | Amarande | they wouldn't really be able to have a painless system if they actually merged servers and lots of folks have the same name :) |
| 19:19.53 | Neffi | Beautiuz: For players it's lifelong. Your GUID doesn't change unless you server transfer. See the Wowpedia page for GUID. |
| 19:20.03 | Amarande | indeed, I suspect this actually is one of the rationales for CRZ rather than server merging. |
| 19:20.27 | Neffi | It makes sense. As CRZ matures, they can probably do away with server hardware too. |
| 19:20.51 | Neffi | Run the very low pop realms virtualized on a single server platform and fix low pop issues with CRZ |
| 19:21.04 | Amarande | Neffi: yeah, which is also cited as the general reason why Blizzard refuses to back down on CRZ no matter how many players feel it detracts from the game (which is a substantial number of players) |
| 19:21.17 | Neffi | I dont think it's a substantial number |
| 19:21.20 | Beautiuz | neffi: i mean, for example, my id is 00010, and some other player from an other server will see me as a0010, but my own 00010 will never change, when when ever encounter that player, my id for him will be a0010 |
| 19:21.37 | Neffi | Out of 10 million subscribers, the 4000 that dislike it enough to actually go and complain on the forums are the VAST minority |
| 19:21.40 | Amarande | basically, the idea being that the desire to downsize the hardware footprint came first, not the desire to make CRZs with the hardware thing being a side advantage |
| 19:22.43 | Neffi | CRZ makes sense. It allows for greater parallelism. It allows them to downsize hardware. It fixes playability on dead realms. It brings the MMO aspect back so the world doesn't feel empty. Leveling is more enjoyable with it, IMO (except HFP, but they just need to up the guards to 90 there). |
| 19:22.50 | Amarande | I'm guessing the general feeling of the 4000 is that for each person who complains on the forums, there's a reasonable number of other players who share the same gripe but haven't taken the time to post. |
| 19:23.17 | Amarande | A big one has been the time related thing, which was forced upon us in 5.1 by CRZ |
| 19:23.18 | Neffi | You can't say it's fundamentally a bad idea just because it was buggy when first introduced. The detractors are being unfair because they don't understand any of this. |
| 19:24.11 | Neffi | Bugs aside, almost any implementation of a complex system has its inherent caveats that need to be solved. |
| 19:24.21 | Neffi | CRZ has those, and the tech will mature past them |
| 19:24.31 | Amarande | (basically, the problem being that now that we have cross-realmed zones, people feel gypped in terms of time flexibility - used to be you picked a server time zone based on how that went with your personal RL schedule, now EVERYONE has to live with PST-based events even if they're on the East Coast and chose an EST server for a reason) |
| 19:25.16 | Amarande | Good in some cases, e.g., I can actually play in the Extravaganza on Sundays if I want since I get home before 5, while if it was still server time, it would be at 2 and I'd always be at work |
| 19:25.22 | Neffi | Don't they maintain data center locality with CRZ? |
| 19:25.38 | Amarande | Bad in some cases, e.g., 6AM is not a very friendly reset time compared to the old midnight, or even 3AM |
| 19:26.00 | Neffi | Reset shouldn't be seen as a target to start doing things |
| 19:26.02 | Amarande | Midnight let you do some things twice in an evening if you weren't on every day. 3AM meant that reset always happened while you were sleeping and never got in the middle of anything. |
| 19:26.05 | Neffi | They're daily for a reason |
| 19:26.27 | Neffi | If you can do them at a given time every day, when the reset occurs won't matter unless it occurs WHILE your schedule allows you to do it. |
| 19:26.28 | Amarande | 6AM means that if you get up early before work to get some wow stuff done before you leave, the reset time can easily end up smack dab in the middle of your wake-up coffee session. |
| 19:26.39 | Neffi | I see |
| 19:26.54 | Amarande | And it's only an East Coaster issue, since on the West Coast it's 3AM and they get the "hey! it's while we're sleeping, what are you complaining about?" advantage heh |
| 19:27.12 | Neffi | Well dailies are a personal thing. They could always choose to move to a system that reset your dailies personally, instead of doing all players as a batch at a given time |
| 19:27.26 | Amarande | It's also annoying for addon authors, because instead of being able to rely on something happening at a specific server time, they need to account for everything happening at *different* server times now depending on time zone because everythihng is fixed to an absolute PST time |
| 19:27.41 | Neffi | 3 AM sleeping? lolol |
| 19:28.04 | Amarande | I have two tradeskill related addons that are supposed to tell me when cooldowns are up, generally speaking since 5.1's CRZ time changes, both addons give different times and both are wrong. LOL |
| 19:28.05 | Neffi | As an east-cost player, 6 AM is better for me. I'm very probably asleep by then. |
| 19:28.29 | Neffi | It's not difficult to find the time zone, and track events based on an offset or different time zone |
| 19:28.40 | Amarande | I looked at the Ara Broker Tradeskills blog entries on wowi, and Alyred is apparently having a HELL of a time trying to deal with the "it's a different server time based on server time zone" bugaboo |
| 19:28.46 | Neffi | It's a bit more complex than just running past GetGameTime, but not really bad |
| 19:29.33 | Amarande | On top of that, the time on the Armory mobile app for non-PST calendar events is always wrong now. |
| 19:29.43 | Neffi | Well that's just a bug |
| 19:29.54 | Amarande | I've missed a couple of guild meetings in the past because I looked it up on the armory app to double check before I knew about the 5.1 change, and got the wrong time. |
| 19:29.58 | Neffi | Arguing that a system is bad because a bug hasn't been fixed is not reasonable |
| 19:30.15 | Amarande | well, the main thing is this - TBH, if they're going to base everything on PST anyway, they should just have every server run with PST server time |
| 19:30.18 | Neffi | Arguing about solvable caveats is also unreasonable (but less so) |
| 19:30.23 | Amarande | instead of this halfway-meeting way. :S |
| 19:30.56 | Neffi | Anyway, class is ending. See you all later |
| 19:31.00 | Amarande | and yes, CRZ is normally kept within data centres, but even ones that host no PST servers still base their world events on PST |
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| 21:16.09 | TC-work | http://kotaku.com/5986178/serving-cooked-penis-in-tokyo-wont-get-you-in-prison |
| 21:17.03 | Lopeppeppy | What if it's raw? |
| 21:17.27 | TC-work | Go give it a try and find out? |
| 21:18.01 | Lopeppeppy | *weg* I'm saying with The Boyfriend tonight, I'll ask him if he'll model for me. |
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| 21:25.11 | pompy | http://embracethetardis.tumblr.com/image/19367599852 heh |
| 21:52.59 | kd3 | brr |
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| 22:20.12 | foxlit | If I don't want to call serialized representations of rings "strings" (because the word is meaningless to normal people), what should I call them instead? |
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| 22:21.02 | nevcairiel | some meaningless tech-y word helps people in such cases to talk about it |
| 22:23.55 | foxlit | I'd prefer a slightly more meaningful word, though, if one exists. |
| 22:28.15 | TC-work | you mean other than strings of rings? |
| 22:29.28 | foxlit | should start calling them pies instead; then, serialized form could be a recipe. |
| 22:30.43 | TC-work | as far as i know a string is literally a number of points one after another it kinda fits the bill |
| 22:31.03 | TC-work | s/r i/r, i/ |
| 22:32.35 | foxlit | a number of points in a sequence is presumably a line/curve |
| 22:34.14 | foxlit | a number of characters in a sequence is a string, but that definition is specific to CS; ordinarily, a string is a physical cord. |
| 22:35.05 | alestane | recipe, "code" would also work. |
| 22:36.37 | alestane | Like the codes we used to enter into password-advancement games. |
| 22:39.36 | foxlit | I think that's actually an awesome association, but it's somewhat confusable with code in the sense of Lua scripts. |
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| 22:53.39 | alestane | I would say "inscription", but that means something specific in WoW. |
| 22:53.50 | alestane | "archive" |
| 22:57.01 | foxlit | archive is further away, I think -- they generally contain multiple things (that are rarely accessed in the physical case). |
| 22:57.28 | xyphoid | packet? |
| 22:57.32 | foxlit | I suppose one criteria is that it'd have to be a noun that you're at least somewhat likely to share -- recipes and codes work in that sense. |
| 22:58.26 | alestane | "snapshot" |
| 22:59.45 | xyphoid | really i'd just call it a code, normal people are used to magic codes that you type in to do things |
| 23:00.17 | xyphoid | sure it's ambiguous with lua code but surelyh that's a problem for the programmers to deal with |
| 23:00.26 | foxlit | xyphoid: a packet, to me, seems like a fragment of something -- incomplete. |
| 23:03.39 | foxlit | alestane: snapshot is also pretty awesome. The only issue that I can think of is it might be a bit non-obvious if presented in some kind of "input/paste a snapshot into the box below" prompt. |
| 23:10.40 | alestane | a ring snapshot, maybe, if you're more explicit. But someone would still try and paste an image, most likely. |
| 23:11.09 | alestane | Or, "a snapshot created with the Take Ring Snapshot button" |
| 23:11.10 | alestane | brb |
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| 23:41.17 | Amarande | wow |
| 23:41.26 | Amarande | it takes over 2 hours to zip up the WoW folder into 7zip |
| 23:41.57 | Amarande | ... on a six core system that can hold entire MPQ files in system RAM, pretty much |
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| 23:42.24 | Amarande | Heck actually if I maxed out this mobo, I think I could fit the entire WoW folder in RAM. :) |
| 23:42.54 | Amarande | Now that would be a cute trick. How much faster would one play if one had 32GB of RAM and copied the entire WoW folder to a RAM drive before playing? :) |
| 23:43.26 | smcn | just get a ssd :p |
| 23:43.46 | Amarande | heh. gonna wait for more price drops on that. |
| 23:44.50 | Amarande | If we get those. We may be in for a long, hard winter of price spikes, depending on how much the Sequester fucks up the economy. :| |
