| 00:00.03 | Amarande | since unlike the netherwing eggs, they seem to blend in a lot more with the scenery, and I've never actually found one before |
| 00:00.03 | bleeter | well, they look like eggs |
| 00:00.10 | VIad | gray eggs |
| 00:00.12 | bleeter | and they're... kinda .... onyx-ish in colour |
| 00:00.21 | VIad | set ground clutter to minimum and such |
| 00:00.41 | VIad | object view distance also to make junk fade in a lot later |
| 00:00.58 | VIad | interact objects always ignore these settings :) |
| 00:02.22 | VIad | Amarande don't look away from my eyes when I talk to you! |
| 00:02.50 | VIad | what that creepy? :P |
| 00:05.01 | Stanzilla | ... |
| 00:05.10 | VIad | hi Stanzilla |
| 00:05.14 | Stanzilla | hi |
| 00:05.32 | Amarande | on the good side, at least egg hunting is helping my Tillers relationships |
| 00:05.44 | Amarande | since I can actually *find* dark soil out here, while I barely ever see it at all in V4W, go figure :P |
| 00:09.27 | pompy | Cairenn|afk: http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/546810_555331114496891_2003612544_n.png |
| 00:11.59 | *** join/#wowuidev hefenwind (~Adium@ip72-211-198-200.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 00:13.43 | VIad | Cairenn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srA5yvpE7_s - or are you afraid to click links sent by my at this point? |
| 00:14.17 | Amarande | egg found. yay. |
| 00:14.37 | Amarande | literally the last place I looked, I was about to give up and go do klaxxi dailies when I found it :) |
| 00:16.32 | VIad | Amarande: aren't you exalted already? |
| 00:16.56 | durcyn | why the actual fuck would you remove GetRaidDifficulty when the replacement only functions inside instances? :( |
| 00:17.11 | VIad | shrug |
| 00:21.08 | Amarande | VIad: nope, remember I lost about a month and a half of WoW time due to computer hardware |
| 00:21.19 | VIad | ah right |
| 00:23.00 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@2601:a:f00:1f:d8ab:462a:ec7:e70b) |
| 00:23.00 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 00:25.13 | VIad | I am DEAD tired |
| 00:26.00 | VIad | looks like a cloudy day today Primer |
| 00:27.48 | Amarande | wow, exalted may come quickly now though |
| 00:27.54 | Amarande | those commendations really change the nature of the beast |
| 00:28.00 | VIad | :) |
| 00:28.05 | Amarande | used to be that Revered to Exalted was the slowest part of faction grinds back in the day |
| 00:28.21 | Amarande | now it is almost always Honoured to Revered, because at Revered you get both a commendation, and usually additional dailies on top of that |
| 00:28.59 | Arrowmaster | only those that got exalted hydraxian warlords in classic are allowed to talk about hard faction grinds |
| 00:29.28 | Amarande | whew. cloud serpent races appear to be optional. gut. I was starting to feel shades of FFX and the first Harry Potter video game start to well up heh |
| 00:29.40 | Amarande | CONCENTRATE, POTTER, AND TRY AGAIN! |
| 00:29.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Semlar (~chatzilla@72.188.127.100) |
| 00:30.05 | Amarande | I think my brother broke a few controllers over that one LOL |
| 00:30.46 | Amarande | Arrow: wasn't Brood of Nozdormu worse? |
| 00:31.00 | Amarande | and, of course, steamwheedle goblins |
| 00:31.09 | Arrowmaster | you can do goblins anytime |
| 00:31.31 | Amarande | actually, Ogri'la is pretty bitchy too |
| 00:31.48 | Amarande | since there aren't really all that many things you can do to get rep without having to play the accursed simon game |
| 00:32.02 | Arrowmaster | and brood had drops that could give you rep at any rep level |
| 00:32.23 | znf | oh god, that ogri'la rep is so dull |
| 00:32.24 | Amarande | Though what I really heard was the worst of them all was actually exalted with Bloodsail |
| 00:32.49 | Amarande | It was possible, but it was literally the most mind-numbing thing to even *imagine* attempting, just reading what you had to do to do it |
| 00:32.51 | Arrowmaster | plus by the time brood was added i think all the rep from bosses had been increased by a large percent |
| 00:32.52 | znf | that was easy when the guards were lvl30 :D |
| 00:33.03 | Amarande | znf: before cata |
| 00:33.08 | znf | yeah |
| 00:33.13 | znf | heck, I did it twice before cata |
| 00:33.27 | Amarande | before cata, almost every mob that gave rep with bloodsail capped out at ... honoured, I think |
| 00:33.38 | Arrowmaster | hydraxian rep was litterally killing MC bosses for a few hundred (not thousand) rep at a time |
| 00:33.50 | Amarande | there was literally ONE mob that would give you rep during revered, and it only gave something like 10, and took minutes to repop every time |
| 00:34.19 | Arrowmaster | it wasnt needed though, at that time the hat and title were only at friendly i think |
| 00:34.20 | VIad | I almost cried just now :( |
| 00:34.22 | Amarande | moreover, even that capped out at 20999 revered, so you literally had to not only do this, but also hold off on getting your nice bloodsail hat until you were close enough to exalted because the quests giving it were the *only* thing to get past that |
| 00:34.49 | Amarande | yeah, but some people apparently did attempt exalted heh |
| 00:34.50 | znf | Amarande, they capped out at 11999/12000 honored |
| 00:34.56 | znf | I did it to revered :D |
| 00:35.23 | Amarande | znf: yeah, like I said, there was like one single goblin, which revered apparently consisted of farming repeatedly and nothing but |
| 00:35.35 | Amarande | and it gave something horribly little like 10 from what I was reading |
| 00:35.37 | znf | then I took 2 quests sometime and I dropped to 10554/12000 |
| 00:35.56 | znf | I almost cried on the keyboard when I realized |
| 00:36.08 | Amarande | yeah, I don't have the patience to go for The Insane |
| 00:36.21 | znf | you only needed friendly for insane :P |
| 00:36.22 | Amarande | even if I went for the goblin and bloodsail stuff, the Ravenholdt thing is just too much of a bastard |
| 00:36.24 | znf | I just kept going :D |
| 00:36.44 | Amarande | the real kick in the pants with ravenholdt is that you can't even buy the needed items off the AH, because they are containers |
| 00:36.47 | smcn | til why i end up joining in on groups who have or are wiping in the classrom in scholo |
| 00:36.51 | Amarande | you have to manually beg in trade chat for them |
| 00:37.07 | znf | first I got friendly, then I decided I don't want to get killed by goblins every time, so I grinded back on pirates until I got goblins to neutral and pirates on hated |
| 00:37.16 | znf | then I decided, "meh, why not get revered with pirates? let's do it again" |
| 00:37.23 | znf | then I grinded all goblins to exalted, individually |
| 00:37.32 | znf | I grinded days on pirates in tanaris |
| 00:37.37 | Amarande | on top of that, there's a rogue shortage |
| 00:37.47 | Amarande | so basically, Insane looks to not be viable until you level a rogue yourself |
| 00:37.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Antiarc (~Instantbi@ip98-165-104-202.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 00:38.08 | Arrowmaster | a rogue shortage? what parallel dimension do you live in |
| 00:38.21 | Amarande | Arrow: a PvE server :P |
| 00:38.48 | Amarande | ... wow |
| 00:38.51 | Amarande | yup, I'm right |
| 00:38.56 | Arrowmaster | i dont see how that effects anything |
| 00:38.56 | Amarande | a /who 90 rogue literally gives fifteen people |
| 00:39.06 | znf | rogue is the least played class :P |
| 00:39.12 | Amarande | and that's in the early evening (so a pretty high activity hour) on a server that's recently achieved High population level |
| 00:39.15 | Mr_Rabies | yeah we have basically no rogues or locks |
| 00:39.15 | znf | it was higher during DS, for the legendary, lots of people rolled rogues |
| 00:39.26 | Mr_Rabies | 41 rogues on my realm alliance side |
| 00:39.26 | VIad | how much does a shadow weigh? |
| 00:39.38 | Mr_Rabies | 43 warlocks |
| 00:39.46 | Amarande | Arrow: you need the heavy junkboxes for Ravenholdt if you want to even attempt The Insane |
| 00:39.49 | Arrowmaster | Mr_Rabies: so i should start playing again and be a god? |
| 00:40.12 | Amarande | since you cannot buy these from the AH (can't auction container), you have to manually trade for them from a rogue, or farm them yourself on a rogue |
| 00:40.21 | Mr_Rabies | capped on paladins, warriors |
| 00:40.23 | Mr_Rabies | 45 death knights |
| 00:40.37 | Amarande | given that *finding* a rogue can be difficult on PvE servers nowadays, pretty much the smart money is to level a rogue yourself and start farming |
| 00:40.58 | Arrowmaster | when i last played in cata i had an 85 lock and a 60 something rogue |
| 00:41.45 | Mr_Rabies | capped on mages, druids, monks, hunters, priests |
| 00:42.04 | Mr_Rabies | so basically our lowest population classes on at raid time on thursday are rogues, locks, and dks |
| 00:42.34 | Amarande | let's see. Ysera-US Alliance currently (cap level): 15 rogues, 24 warriors, 41 paladins, 43 death knights, 34 shamans, 41 hunters, 32 mages, 34 priests, 22 monks, 36 druids, 27 warlocks |
| 00:42.43 | Amarande | wow, and we're a High pop server? website and app say so anyway |
| 00:42.46 | Mr_Rabies | mages are by far our largest population, then paladin, most likely |
| 00:43.00 | Mr_Rabies | what was that site that had the population breakdown, Amarande |
| 00:43.03 | Arrowmaster | locks have always been low except the rare times when an arena team with a lock is dominating and everybody decides they are overpowered again |
| 00:43.06 | Mr_Rabies | run by the same guy as tuj |
| 00:43.26 | Amarande | Mr_Rabies: http://wow.realmpop.com/ was the one I looked at |
| 00:43.35 | Mr_Rabies | yeah |
| 00:43.36 | Mr_Rabies | that's it |
| 00:43.46 | Mr_Rabies | thanks |
| 00:43.51 | VIad | wowcensus |
| 00:43.55 | VIad | the original one |
| 00:44.09 | Amarande | Arrow: heh, you can blame Blizz for that one really, especially PvP side |
| 00:44.21 | Amarande | there was a very long time (most of BC, really) where locks were basically Blizzard's butt monkey |
| 00:44.40 | Amarande | they were really quite OP apparently in 2.0.1 pre-BC, but then they kept getting nerfed into the ground |
| 00:44.43 | Arrowmaster | locks were trash pvp in BC |
| 00:44.57 | smcn | bc was sl/sl wasn't it |
| 00:44.58 | Amarande | and just to make things hurt even more, 2.3 was also when Armour Penetration became serious business |
| 00:45.23 | Arrowmaster | http://imgur.com/pHns8 http://imgur.com/vOiXw are from 2.0.1 |
| 00:45.27 | Dagmar | Well they probably shouldn't have been getting attack power from EVERYTHING then if they didn't want to be nerfed. |
| 00:45.41 | Amarande | and there were also key changes to Resilience that kicked them in the nuts right around the same time on top of that |
| 00:46.05 | Mr_Rabies | thing is locks tend to start pretty overtuned each expansion and constantly seeing nerf patch notes is pretty bad for morale, even if it's bringing them in line with others |
| 00:46.13 | Amarande | why hello there, class with no escapes, no arena-viable CC solutions, no really good damage dealing on top of that really when you think of it, and which against a serious melee enemy will function as basically ZERO armour because at that point ArPen was not only becoming serious business, but it was a flat subtraction that tended to be enough to knock out all of a clothie's armour rating |
| 00:46.22 | Amarande | breakdown. |
| 00:46.29 | Dagmar | Spirit? Adds attack power. Intelligence... adds attack power. Stamina... let's have some more attack power shalle we? Wearing a hat with stripes? Add 10% more attack power. |
| 00:46.33 | Mr_Rabies | bear druids tend to get that but instead of gradual, we get hit with one huge nerf in the first balance patch |
| 00:46.44 | Amarande | no escapes: you didn't get demonic portal till Wrath, so if you were attacked by melee you just had to stand there and take it with high stam being your only aid |
| 00:46.59 | Mr_Rabies | i'm glad that it seems they're done balancing for arenas for the most part though |
| 00:46.59 | Dagmar | Or, you know... fear |
| 00:47.03 | VIad | as guardian I can't kill a warrior with the self heal :D |
| 00:47.07 | Mr_Rabies | that was such a bad idea |
| 00:47.24 | Amarande | Dagmar: fear was discounted because it can be easily dispelled, while by comparison the melee CC that will be used against you basically can't be dispelled *at all* |
| 00:47.33 | Amarande | since melee debuffs are practically all the red crap that has no dispel type |
| 00:47.35 | Mr_Rabies | arenas are the worst and balancing for anything short of 7v7 in like, anything is a bad idea |
| 00:47.36 | Arrowmaster | i still cant help but let out an evil laugh when i look at those screenshots from 2.0.1 |
| 00:47.49 | Dagmar | ...and yet they were the one class that could pretty much kill someone before they knew they were dead. |
| 00:47.54 | Dagmar | It's not as simple as you're making it out to be. |
| 00:48.12 | Amarande | also, around that same time, they made changes to how resilience affected DoTs, which made warlock damage suddenly very lousy |
| 00:48.31 | Amarande | generally, your DoTs would *also* get dispelled by enemy healers before they could do any serious damage |
| 00:49.22 | Amarande | Mr_Rabies: ironically it was the large arena groups warlocks had the worst of it in |
| 00:49.46 | Mr_Rabies | there weren't any arena sizes above 5v5 were there? |
| 00:49.46 | Amarande | 2v2 they stood a chance. 5v5 it was basically making you into 4v5 because any melee-heavy opponent group would be sure to take out your warlock immediately with no real hope |
| 00:50.15 | Mr_Rabies | 5v5 is hardly a large group |
| 00:50.28 | Amarande | well, it would have been worse in a larger group arena setting anyway |
| 00:50.41 | Amarande | because what was killing them was melee assist trains, which become *more* effective as the group size grows |
| 00:51.14 | Mr_Rabies | sure, in team deathmatch maybe |
| 00:51.27 | Mr_Rabies | but that's what objective-based gametypes are for |
| 00:51.36 | Mr_Rabies | dueling no longer matters very much |
| 00:51.37 | Amarande | they'd be stunlocked and snared, have no way to get away from the melee, could only fear one at a time even if not stunned (barring howl, but that has a CD and can still be dispelled) |
| 00:51.47 | Amarande | either the healer would go OOM trying to save them, or they'd just go down and basically leave you with a 4-on-5 |
| 00:51.52 | Amarande | Mr_Rabies: arena *is* team deathmatch |
| 00:51.58 | Mr_Rabies | yeah |
| 00:52.10 | Mr_Rabies | i'm saying stop balancing around team deathmatch |
| 00:52.34 | Mr_Rabies | it's obviously too much work and effects the pve game too much |
| 00:53.00 | Amarande | oh yeah, and you also could never take advantage of Unstable Affliction to make the enemy pay for dispelling you, because you basically had to be SL/SL to have any survivability at all, and I don't recall you had enough talent points to do both |
| 00:53.11 | Mr_Rabies | tie all the rewards to rbgs, leave arenas as something to do for fun, and don't balance around it |
| 00:53.22 | Arrowmaster | yeah i never did SL/SL |
| 00:53.43 | Amarande | heh the interesting thing is that Soul Link is now the dumbest talent in the whole game to ever take, pretty much |
| 00:53.53 | Arrowmaster | oh wait i did for leveling, but it was FG/SL |
| 00:54.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Mike-N-Go (~Mike-N-Go@206.162.237.238) |
| 00:54.39 | Amarande | tying it to RBGs would pretty much kill PvP altogether for people playing on PvE servers because they want restricted PvP |
| 00:54.46 | Arrowmaster | it was fun soloing 5man quest mobs while leveling in cata as FG/SL |
| 00:55.00 | Amarande | just try getting the 10-25 people needed to do an RBG on your average PvE realm, even relatively high pop ones |
| 00:55.27 | Amarande | maybe if they let you queue for RBGs like normal ones, without having to have a full premade |
| 00:55.30 | Arrowmaster | it seemed i always picked the 'broken' spec after an expansion |
| 00:55.37 | Mr_Rabies | that's better than the alternative Amarande |
| 00:55.42 | Mr_Rabies | which is constant design whiplash |
| 00:55.55 | Dagmar | Stop listening to histrionic children, Arrowmaster. |
| 00:56.03 | Amarande | I suppose further skill bifurcation is a possibility too, Mr_Rabies |
| 00:56.11 | Mr_Rabies | it's not gonna happen, though |
| 00:56.16 | Amarande | like they did in Guild Wars, where some skills' function is completely forked based on whether it's PvE or PvP |
| 00:56.32 | Mr_Rabies | they've expressly said they're most likely never going to do that on any kind of large scale |
| 00:56.36 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: by 'broken' i mean people always cried when i soloed every group quest in both the first 2 expansions while leveling |
| 00:56.47 | Mr_Rabies | i wish they would, but i can see how much of a pain it is for new players |
| 00:56.48 | Amarande | yeah, WoW's design doesn't really allow for it on the same sort of level as GW |
| 00:56.58 | Mr_Rabies | to be like, well, death coil does this in pve, but something totally different in pvp |
| 00:57.02 | Dagmar | Ahh... |
| 00:57.04 | Amarande | GW lends itself well to it because PvP and PvE areas are completely separated |
| 00:57.14 | Dagmar | I'm used to that because I've been playing beastmaster for just about forever now |
| 00:57.15 | Amarande | there's no such thing as world PvP, only PvP in designated areas for the purpose |
| 00:57.21 | Mr_Rabies | GW's also not really an mmo |
| 00:57.30 | Mr_Rabies | it's also why it's going to be so seperate in diablo |
| 00:57.37 | Mr_Rabies | it's easier to do that for an action rpg vs an mmo |
| 00:57.38 | Dagmar | This last time I wasn't able to make a habit of killing all 12 quest mobs at once, so that's new |
| 00:57.54 | Amarande | and to PvP, first you need to visit a PvP hub, which means the skills can be changed over to the appropriate type whenever you enter a hub (which is always a non-combat zone) |
| 00:58.00 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: when TBC first came out every group quest mob was fearable, in Wrath they were all tankable by the felguard |
| 00:58.28 | Amarande | I'm still wondering how they're planning to balance PvP in D3 |
| 00:58.30 | Dagmar | Of course. Becuase you can spec to out-heal a healer |
| 00:58.54 | Amarande | like, in order to make it not be pay to win on a level that makes SW:TOR and Aeria MMOs seem like they're not P2W :) |
| 00:59.38 | Dagmar | Heck we found a few cases in Northrend instances where the pet-heal bonuses ran numbers so high that with a "real" healer backing a hunter, it was easier than a regular tank |
| 00:59.41 | Amarande | Dagmar: speaking of which what's lovely is when you end up with a duel of healers |
| 00:59.58 | Amarande | still remember the time in Swamp of Sorrows I was on a 70 disc priest and challenged a 62 resto druid to a duel |
| 00:59.59 | Dagmar | Hehe. That's like two Tai Chi masters fighting |
| 01:00.05 | Amarande | that went on a ... while |
| 01:00.48 | Dagmar | You should try two old school EQ wizards in a fist-fight. |
| 01:00.55 | Amarande | Dagmar: I think part of it is also that pets are often immune to boss effects that would be severely debilitating to a player tank |
| 01:01.00 | TC-work | I once saw a prot pally and resto druid fight in vanilla. |
| 01:01.05 | Arrowmaster | we had one of those in arena 2v2s in TBC me and one other enemy died at the same time so the priest and my friends priest alt went at it forever |
| 01:01.05 | Amarande | especially if AoE is involved, because of the massive damage reduction pets have on AoE |
| 01:01.13 | TC-work | it only stopped on account of the raid |
| 01:01.29 | Dagmar | Amarande: Well, they also have the advantage that they never stand there like a pillock when the boss does a long-casting ability. They casually just stroll through the boss so he misses them |
| 01:01.48 | Arrowmaster | lol |
| 01:01.52 | Amarande | I remember at one point pretty much all pets had like, 90% AoE damage reduction? |
| 01:02.01 | Arrowmaster | when was this |
| 01:02.08 | Arrowmaster | it wasnt the last time i raided |
| 01:02.09 | Dagmar | It's extra hilarious that since they're not going far, their run animation doesn't even make them look like they're in a hurry |
| 01:02.25 | Amarande | I think it was at some point during wrath, either they had it inherently or there was a talent available to the class to allow the minion to have it |
| 01:02.28 | Dagmar | Amarande: Yeah because otherwise hunters spent about half their time ressing their pets |
| 01:03.02 | Dagmar | Bosses would be surrounded with it and you can't get the tank to reposition for pets |
| 01:03.12 | Arrowmaster | i think part of the reason i got kicked from my guild in 3.0 was that i stuck with felguard |
| 01:03.24 | Amarande | But yeah, those things aren't available to human players, and I can imagine quite a lot of bosses must get a lot easier because of them |
| 01:03.26 | xyphoid | they definitely had the AOE reduciton in cata, i remember using them on Foe Reaper in heroic deadmines |
| 01:03.26 | Dagmar | Karazahn was the reason I bought a mouse with thumb buttons. |
| 01:03.32 | Amarande | It's not too unlike, say, Dragon Age, really |
| 01:03.41 | xyphoid | because he had no melee, just an aoe cone |
| 01:03.43 | Amarande | where a lot of otherwise stupidly hard enemies became stupidly easy if you brought Shale or the dog to tank |
| 01:04.07 | Amarande | since a lot of stuff (especially any kind of "pick up the target and shake/chew/etc. them to death" sort of attack) just failed to work on dogs and golems at all heh |
| 01:04.07 | Dagmar | Dunno. I micromanage fights. |
| 01:04.14 | Dagmar | I also never play "fair" in Dragon Age |
| 01:04.37 | Amarande | Dragons, in particular. Dragons usually have this super nasty attack where they grab the tank in their jaws and do so much damage that it's pretty much a one-shot except maybe on Easy |
| 01:04.47 | Amarande | However, they cannot pick up Shale, and I've read they can't pick up Dog either. |
| 01:05.01 | Dagmar | I never left anyone in front of them long enough to get bitten |
| 01:05.23 | Dagmar | Running a lot beats being eaten, hands down |
| 01:06.06 | *** join/#wowuidev hefenwind (~Adium@ip72-211-198-200.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 01:08.10 | Amarande | I used Shale frequently, Dog barely ever |
| 01:08.51 | Amarande | my usual team was Shale, Leliana, and Morrigan ... well except the Deep Roads questing bit where I had to take Oghren so I ended up leaving Shale behind for that part |
| 01:09.30 | Amarande | and, it turns out, I probably shouldn't have used Oghren as much as I did since there seemed to be a bug in Awakening related to that. :| |
| 01:25.45 | Arrowmaster | aol seems to have forgotten to renew a cert for aim |
| 01:27.14 | kd3 | oops |
| 01:27.24 | kd3 | and eesh. the armory's going slow updating tonight |
| 01:27.44 | Arrowmaster | i really dont understand how these major companies can forget to renew stuff |
| 01:28.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Neffi (~Neffi@pool-98-116-218-107.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 01:29.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Neffi (~Neffi@pool-98-116-218-107.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 01:30.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Marcum-OtherPC (~midnight@50-90-9-206.res.bhn.net) |
| 01:31.59 | Amarande | yay kyparite deposit of doom |
| 01:32.11 | Amarande | thank the gods I selected Greater Invisibility |
| 01:33.18 | Amarande | blizz seems to like to have some of the mining nodes be like that ROFL |
| 01:44.42 | Primer | VIad: sound stream added! |
| 01:44.56 | Primer | OMG it just captured a woman talking across the street! |
| 01:45.15 | VIad | it's windy |
| 01:45.22 | VIad | say hello maybe I can hear you |
| 01:45.36 | VIad | or perhaps scream, Primer |
| 01:45.55 | VIad | someone in the backyard? |
| 01:45.57 | VIad | topleft camera |
| 01:46.10 | Primer | I'm at the far back side of the house |
| 01:46.15 | VIad | I see a doggie :D |
| 01:46.22 | VIad | fuck me so noisy |
| 01:46.32 | Primer | yeah, still adjusting the gain |
| 01:46.42 | VIad | I the doggie yours? :D |
| 01:46.54 | Primer | yes |
| 01:47.02 | Primer | turned off mic boost |
| 01:47.23 | VIad | hehe |
| 01:47.30 | Primer | I can hear it, even though it's in the back yard |
| 01:47.45 | Primer | OMG THIS IS AWSOME |
| 01:47.47 | VIad | you should organize the cameras |
| 01:47.51 | Primer | oh, and my pi arrived too |
| 01:47.52 | VIad | #3 and #4 |
| 01:48.07 | Primer | this is a stream that's using the v4l devices directly |
| 01:48.11 | VIad | the bottom left (4) is what is on view to the left of camera (3) |
| 01:48.11 | Primer | I didn't get the order right |
| 01:48.15 | VIad | :( |
| 01:48.53 | Primer | fixing it now (have to kill it to do so) |
| 01:49.50 | *** join/#wowuidev MidnightAge (~midnight@50-90-9-206.res.bhn.net) |
| 01:50.48 | VIad | bought a usb jig for a buck, it works but my phone didn't reset the counter :( |
| 01:50.57 | VIad | seems I am using newer firmware that has a patch to counter it lol |
| 01:51.37 | Primer | This mic is so sensitive...see the car in cam1? There was a woman walking by it, on the other side of it, talking on her cell phone, and I clearly heard what she was saying |
| 01:51.53 | VIad | :D |
| 01:52.22 | VIad | it is snowing? |
| 01:52.47 | Primer | This is California, man |
| 01:52.50 | VIad | the doggie wants in btw |
| 01:52.57 | VIad | its looking in your window :P |
| 01:52.57 | Primer | it's like 65F out |
| 01:53.08 | VIad | ~computer, 65F to celcius |
| 01:53.28 | VIad | 18C |
| 01:53.30 | VIad | not bad |
| 01:53.34 | VIad | -10 at |
| 01:53.35 | VIad | atm |
| 01:54.12 | VIad | I hear sirens |
| 01:54.45 | VIad | it's noisy at your home mate |
| 01:54.54 | Arrowmaster | what was the port? |
| 01:55.17 | VIad | can link you if Primer allows me |
| 01:55.50 | Arrowmaster | i thought it was 8086 but its saying it needs authentication |
| 01:55.53 | VIad | yes |
| 01:55.59 | VIad | he added http auth |
| 01:56.33 | VIad | Primer shall I give the link to Arrowmaster? |
| 01:58.31 | VIad | Primer |
| 01:58.43 | VIad | I am going to bed in a sec, sorry Arrowmaster |
| 01:58.47 | VIad | Primer is too slow :P |
| 01:59.59 | Primer | Naw, the mic is super sensitive |
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| 02:01.34 | Primer | vlc firefox plugin stopped working...wtf |
| 02:02.06 | Arrowmaster | haha ricer |
| 02:02.13 | Primer | yeah |
| 02:02.20 | Primer | glass pack |
| 02:02.24 | Primer | hate those fuckers |
| 02:02.31 | VIad | Primer scroll down |
| 02:02.35 | VIad | you are reading the log lol |
| 02:02.46 | Primer | say what? |
| 02:02.52 | VIad | :( |
| 02:02.59 | VIad | too tired can't understand anything |
| 02:03.02 | VIad | good night |
| 02:03.05 | Primer | night |
| 02:03.33 | Woho | Does anyone happen to know of an item you can place on the ground that has a duration of at least a minute and no cooldown? |
| 02:04.05 | Arrowmaster | i doubt such an item would exist unless its consumable |
| 02:04.27 | Motig | well the only item I've found so far with the criteria is the [Dark Iron Ale Mug] |
| 02:05.16 | Motig | was hoping there'd be something similair but with a longer duration but I'm having a hard time thinking of one |
| 02:06.00 | Motig | consumable is actually a pretty good idea |
| 02:06.03 | Motig | maybe I can use a fish feast |
| 02:07.30 | znf | Motig, puntable marmot? |
| 02:07.32 | znf | oh, no ocd |
| 02:07.34 | znf | no cd |
| 02:07.35 | znf | meh |
| 02:07.57 | kd3 | guild banners? |
| 02:08.48 | Motig | well it's supposed to be for a minigame where people have to spot what item doesn't belong in an inn |
| 02:08.53 | Motig | so the guild banner would be too obvious |
| 02:16.09 | Amarande | wow, lucky daily today |
| 02:16.15 | Amarande | four clefthoofs dropped meat in a row |
| 02:16.25 | Amarande | usually I get about ten of the vegan ones before I get enough meat for the spiritual soup :p |
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| 02:35.34 | znf | killed Iron Quo \o/ |
| 02:38.04 | Amarande | ooh. no raven lord today, but the staff from Ikiss is a nice xmog \o/ |
| 02:44.12 | Adys | http://torrentfreak.com/pirated-cartoon-download-leads-to-kindergarten-porn-show-130117/ |
| 02:44.16 | Adys | kd3: ^ |
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| 02:51.07 | kd3 | hahah oops |
| 02:53.37 | Dagmar | She showed 'em Snow White And The Seven Dwarves, did she? |
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| 02:58.01 | Arrowmaster | shit, am i still online in steam |
| 02:58.22 | pompy | yes |
| 02:58.43 | Arrowmaster | ok good, running the launcher for steam again brought it back, i had lost it |
| 02:58.54 | pompy | playin a non steam game |
| 02:58.58 | Arrowmaster | yeah |
| 03:01.25 | Amarande | hmmmm. |
| 03:01.33 | Amarande | so apparently 5.2 frees us from the dailies grind, heh |
| 03:01.41 | Amarande | at least as far as gear is concerned |
| 03:02.35 | Amarande | what I am wondering about is the viability of still being able to finish the Black Prince questlines on characters who don't manage to finish it before 5.2 |
| 03:03.31 | Amarande | will we still be able to get the sigils from the Thunder King raid, or is it going to be "hope you can get enough guildies to go with you" or "LFR queues that take all evening for enough people to be interested"? |
| 03:05.49 | nebula169 | doubt they will drop in the 5.2 raid |
| 03:09.40 | znf | the new raid seem to have a new legendary currency |
| 03:09.46 | znf | so most likely you're going to LFR |
| 03:10.08 | kullervo | Amarande: how come we'd be free from daily grind? |
| 03:10.17 | znf | or lolstorm trough the 5.0 raid |
| 03:10.20 | znf | raids |
| 03:10.31 | znf | also, what kullervo said |
| 03:10.41 | znf | There's 2 factions in 5.2: one for dailies, one for raid |
| 03:11.05 | Amarande | kullervo: the stuff that drops down to become the new valor point gear apparently isn't going to be tied to factions like the current valor gear |
| 03:11.22 | kullervo | ooh great |
| 03:11.25 | znf | huh? |
| 03:11.37 | znf | I think you read it wrong? |
| 03:11.38 | durcyn | the vendor will still be on the ass end of nowhere though |
| 03:11.39 | kullervo | goes well with their removal of the item upgrade vendor then |
| 03:11.48 | Amarande | znf: currently, to buy valor gear, you usually have to rep up with particular factions depending on the slot |
| 03:11.52 | kullervo | "tip: you'll want to spend your valor on the new gear" |
| 03:11.56 | Amarande | like you want your valor legs? time to spend some time with the bug people :) |
| 03:11.57 | znf | Amarande, yes, I know that... |
| 03:12.15 | znf | but where did you figure that the daily faction doesn't have gear, either? |
| 03:12.21 | Amarande | apparently, though, the next set of valor gear won't be like that, it'll be more like wrath and cata valor gear, so I'm told |
| 03:12.37 | Amarande | znf: I'm more wondering how likely it is to actually get an LFR group for the 5.0 raids once 5.2 is out |
| 03:13.05 | kullervo | bracers, boots, jewelry? |
| 03:13.08 | znf | You DO realize they said that the new raid faction (which you can get rep only from raids) will sell VP gear, right? |
| 03:14.32 | Amarande | ah, I didn't read that far |
| 03:14.51 | znf | Join the Shado-Pan Assault in their singular drive to see Lei Shen, The Thunder King defeated once and for all, and gain access to impressive Valor reward items. Reputation with this faction can be earned only within the Throne of Thunder raid dungeon. |
| 03:15.24 | Amarande | ah. so if I'm reading this right, we'll still have to do the 5.0 raids in order to get geared to be able to do the 5.2 raids so we can get the new gear |
| 03:15.33 | znf | Yes |
| 03:15.49 | znf | Dunno why aren't they just making VP gear to cost JPs tbh :-/ |
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| 03:20.57 | smcn | when itemlevel is calculated, does it use the highest two rings & trinkets or just one? |
| 03:21.20 | kullervo | no idea, actually |
| 03:22.10 | znf | all of them, afaik |
| 03:22.16 | znf | I mean, highest 2 |
| 03:34.33 | Kraps | social networking = ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=5FyUGusdIwE |
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| 04:03.52 | Adys | http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2013-01-17/ |
| 04:05.44 | Adys | kd3: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/commit/?id=9ba7eac535d309332c4149b544ccf7e87f88c723 |
| 04:05.46 | Adys | Oh Maarten |
| 04:05.48 | Adys | I love you. |
| 04:07.03 | TC-Away | It doesnt have anything to do with metal, it lied to me. |
| 04:08.54 | Thunder_Child | should that code really have FIXME parts? |
| 04:11.14 | Adys | theres one "maybe fixme" |
| 04:11.33 | Amarande | yay pet battles don't bring you out of stealth. *nice*. |
| 04:11.34 | Adys | and one unsure value |
| 04:16.28 | kd3 | ooh. pretty |
| 04:17.38 | Adys | those elite pets |
| 04:17.43 | Adys | are we supposed to kill them or capture them? |
| 04:18.05 | Adys | in any case i like what they're doing, still adding content to it |
| 04:19.55 | Amarande | Adys: new rare unique-appearance model animals I'm guessing? |
| 04:20.06 | Adys | ptr 5.2 notes |
| 04:20.15 | Adys | anyway afk sleep |
| 04:22.08 | Amarande | hm. not quite sure. |
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| 04:22.23 | Amarande | Capture is considered defeat, so I'm guessing you might be able to do both |
| 04:22.36 | Amarande | oh, and new spirit beasts to create more hate between hunters and achievement seekers :D |
| 04:23.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Semlar (~chatzilla@72.188.127.100) |
| 04:24.10 | Amarande | heh, maybe they should just make more of the spirit beasts be like GC, that seems to cut down on that hate :) |
| 04:27.17 | Kraps | is this good http://1saleaday.com/main/ |
| 04:29.47 | kd3 | the router or the site? |
| 04:29.58 | Kraps | the router? |
| 04:30.27 | kd3 | amazon's giving it a 2/5, pcmag's 2.5/5, cnet's 3.5/5 |
| 04:30.30 | kd3 | meh |
| 04:30.44 | kd3 | it's selling for $40 elsewhere, don't buy $150 |
| 04:30.54 | Kraps | well yeah |
| 04:31.07 | Kraps | so i need a new router |
| 04:31.27 | Kraps | and my brother wont respond to my texts :( |
| 04:32.04 | kd3 | newegg doesn't like it |
| 04:32.06 | Kraps | except to say i should get linksys, but WHICH linksys |
| 04:32.06 | kd3 | I'd vote no |
| 04:32.13 | kd3 | wrt54gl is my router |
| 04:32.25 | Amarande | build your own with linux? :) |
| 04:32.49 | Amarande | mini-itx board. wifi card. small HTPC set-top type case. |
| 04:32.57 | Kraps | check your linux privilege |
| 04:33.15 | Thunder_Child | ideally something that can be modded with dd-wrt or tomato or somesuch |
| 04:33.27 | kd3 | which is why I bought the wrt54gl |
| 04:33.57 | Kraps | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:33.58 | Kraps | CHOKING HAZARD -- Small parts. Not for children under 3 yrs. |
| 04:34.23 | Kraps | is it also good for people who dont mod their routers |
| 04:34.53 | Kraps | and think linux is a type a rare bird |
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| 04:52.14 | Amarande | gahwtf |
| 04:52.31 | Amarande | when I first created my rogue, I could not attack at all from stealth without having to listen to "FATALITY!" from BugSack EVERY SINGLE TIME |
| 04:52.37 | Amarande | then it went away for a while |
| 04:52.59 | Amarande | then I created a new alt on another server, and the only thing I did that even referenced the rogue was I chose her Bartender profile to copy over to the new alt |
| 04:53.12 | Amarande | ... and now I log back onto her and again EVERY SINGLE TIME I attack from stealth I have to listen to "Fatality!" again |
| 04:53.38 | KarlKFI | this is a problem? |
| 04:53.55 | KarlKFI | sounds like a feature |
| 04:54.44 | Amarande | Karl: for some reason it's causing some kind of protected function to trigger every single time the rogue attacks when she was in stealth before attacking |
| 04:54.50 | Amarande | hence a BugSack proc each time |
| 04:54.59 | Amarande | it's blaming SUF, but I've not touched my SUF settings in like ages |
| 04:55.11 | Amarande | unless creating a new alt fucks with the global settings for it |
| 04:55.25 | KarlKFI | that does't mean a patch didn't make something new protected |
| 04:55.44 | Amarande | yeah, but I don't think there was a patch in the 10 minutes or so between logging out of the rogue and logging back onto her |
| 04:56.34 | Amarande | the only thing I can think of is that at some point the game stopped liking addons changing the action bar ("paging" it, as BT's settings window would call it), but I've set everything to "don't page" |
| 04:58.19 | Stanzilla | can we just end this with blaming it on the usual taint problem? |
| 04:58.36 | Kraps | kd3, the wrt54gl doesnt have N, is that noticeable? |
| 04:58.52 | Amarande | Stan: the point is to figure out *why* it's getting tainted, so that I don't have to redo my entire UI so I don't go insane trying to play my rogue |
| 04:59.15 | kd3 | no. none of my stuff has N either |
| 04:59.30 | Kraps | ah cool |
| 04:59.31 | Semlar | it won't make that much of a difference |
| 04:59.31 | Arrowmaster | my stuff has N but not 5ghz |
| 04:59.39 | Semlar | 5ghz would actually be a shorter range |
| 04:59.48 | Arrowmaster | but im still using my wrt54gl |
| 05:00.23 | Arrowmaster | been thinking about getting a rt-n66u |
| 05:00.49 | Semlar | N allows faster transfer inside of the network like moving files between computers |
| 05:01.05 | Semlar | but for accessing the internet it doesn't matter that much |
| 05:01.24 | Amarande | MultiBarLeft:originalHide() is the function claiming to be responsible for the failed action |
| 05:01.36 | Amarande | unfortunately, that looks like the kind of advanced Lua that I have no idea what it actually means or does |
| 05:01.38 | Arrowmaster | well ive been wondering if i might get better range out of the new one |
| 05:01.54 | Amarande | what exactly does MultiBarLeft:originalHide() do? |
| 05:01.55 | Semlar | it looks like it's trying to hide the action bar |
| 05:02.11 | Amarande | but why would SUF be trying to hide the action bar? |
| 05:02.18 | Semlar | is it replacing it with its own? |
| 05:02.38 | Semlar | originalHide is a custom function so it's hard to say what it's doing |
| 05:02.45 | Amarande | SUF is a unit frame addon, not an action bar addon |
| 05:02.53 | Amarande | the action bars are from BT4 |
| 05:02.58 | Semlar | well the multibars are the extra action buttons |
| 05:03.10 | Semlar | the ones that aren't the default |
| 05:03.52 | Amarande | It most definitely does NOT happen if I'm not stealthed prior to initiating combat |
| 05:04.00 | Amarande | *only* when I initiate combat from stealth (e.g., Ambush) |
| 05:04.18 | Stanzilla | *sigh* |
| 05:04.24 | Amarande | and it had stopped happening, but started again after I created a new alt, however, I'm not at all sure why that would trigger it |
| 05:04.46 | Amarande | Stan: the point is how to play my rogue (or my druid if I ever went feral on her) without tearing my hair out at having to listen to bugsack every single mob |
| 05:05.14 | Stanzilla | just find the addon that is tainting by disabling them one by one |
| 05:05.14 | Semlar | disable bugsack |
| 05:05.23 | Semlar | problem solved forever |
| 05:05.26 | Ackis | the one fucking enchanting recipe I need from AQ40 decides to finally drop... for my pally not my priest |
| 05:05.28 | Ackis | AFDFKGHSDFKJSDHF |
| 05:05.53 | Amarande | Semlar: yeah, except for whether the "Interface action failed because of an AddOn" is also going to cause any other actions to start failing throughout the session after that |
| 05:06.10 | Amarande | it doesn't SEEM anything does, but you never know |
| 05:06.31 | Amarande | the only thing I can even think of though is whether changing action bars modally is something you can't do with addons anymore |
| 05:06.44 | Semlar | alright well i can almost guarantee from the sound of it that one of your addons has actually replaced the "hide" function of the action bar which is going to taint it |
| 05:07.07 | Amarande | (i.e., the "bar changes when you go into stealth and then back when you go out of it" behaviour) but I've set every state on the bar to "don't page" in BT |
| 05:07.30 | Kraps | haha old reviews "omg wireless is so awesome!!" |
| 05:07.44 | Amarande | Semlar: why would simply creating an alt and loading in existing addon profile settings into it cause a previous character's addons to suddenly screw up though? |
| 05:08.05 | Semlar | maybe that isn't what caused it |
| 05:08.09 | Semlar | and it just seems that way |
| 05:08.12 | Amarande | the only change I've made to any addons since creating the new alt is updating Big Wigs, and it was doing it before that |
| 05:08.20 | Amarande | and it *wasn't* doing it before I went to create the new alt |
| 05:08.29 | Semlar | but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the cause |
| 05:08.38 | Amarande | makes you wonder if they should just get rid of taint altogether, as it causes too many random issues like this :) |
| 05:08.43 | Amarande | What's the worst that could happen if they did that, anyway? heh |
| 05:09.05 | Semlar | well the whole point of taint is to prevent us from doing things we aren't supposed to do |
| 05:09.44 | Amarande | except it usually ends up in practise getting in the way of things that it shouldn't :) |
| 05:09.59 | Amarande | like the infamous time after 5.0 where it seemed like the glyph panel would get tainted just by breathing on the keyboard :P |
| 05:10.05 | Semlar | if they removed it then we could just inject whatever we wanted to into protected functions |
| 05:10.14 | Semlar | which they don't want |
| 05:11.07 | Semlar | but i agree that it has a terrible implementation |
| 05:11.15 | Semlar | it shouldn't just break everything |
| 05:11.23 | Amarande | heh, and whatever it does is trying to call that function A LOT |
| 05:11.37 | Semlar | if anything it should just ignore what you tried to do instead of letting that path get tainted |
| 05:12.03 | Amarande | like, at least twice for each time I attack from stealth |
| 05:12.17 | Amarande | like I said, what's the worst that could happen to the game if taint stopped blocking things properly? |
| 05:12.26 | Amarande | it's not like it would make WoW stop being a fun game that 10 million people would play, would it? :P |
| 05:13.12 | Amarande | hm. if I'm looking at this bugsack thing properly, it DOES seem like it's trying to initiate action bar transitions, but no idea why |
| 05:13.32 | Amarande | (and fwiw, the only time I actually DO see my action bars get hidden is when I initiate a pet battle, and that DOESN'T produce taint issues) |
| 05:14.33 | Amarande | yup, SUF doesn't touch the action bar, people have reported it being blamed for taint before falsely |
| 05:15.05 | Semlar | going into stealth changes your action bars |
| 05:16.42 | karl_w_w | amusing, "online" wasn't in my firefox dictionary |
| 05:16.43 | Semlar | that originalHide thing might actually be blizzard code because i see it mentioned in FrameLocks.lua |
| 05:19.01 | Semlar | https://github.com/Ketho/wow-ui-source/blob/ptr/FrameXML/FrameLocks.lua |
| 05:19.22 | Amarande | Semlar: except I've set bartender to specifically NOT change my action bars when going in/out of stealth |
| 05:19.27 | Amarande | that's what "don't page" means |
| 05:20.23 | kd3 | not that that matters to the base ui |
| 05:20.42 | Semlar | i think bartender makes its own buttons |
| 05:21.08 | Amarande | hm. copying bartender config back over from ANOTHER character and then resetting it back to "don't page" worked |
| 05:21.09 | Amarande | strange. |
| 05:21.52 | Semlar | problem solved? |
| 05:21.56 | Amarande | for the moment. |
| 05:22.04 | Semlar | forever? |
| 05:22.27 | Amarande | not sure what triggers the problem to recur |
| 05:22.36 | Amarande | I'm going to guess that every time I create a new alt it might do it though :| |
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| 05:37.16 | Amarande | hah, here's a strange one |
| 05:37.36 | Amarande | If you try to pickpocket the same target twice, you get told "you do not have permission to loot that corpse" heh |
| 05:37.59 | Amarande | also: the error audio for rogues needs a bit of tuning up. |
| 05:38.09 | Amarande | "That would be stealing!" Ermm ... you're a ROGUE, that's what you do ... LOL |
| 05:40.05 | Dagmar | No, that's a _thief_, not a rogue. |
| 05:40.16 | Dagmar | Rogues do your mom. |
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| 08:34.46 | zenzio | "I'm looking for a std::map-esque data structure optimised for fast lookup." -- "What's wrong with std::map? It is extremely std::map-esque, and is optimised for fat lookup." |
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| 09:01.28 | bluworkcow | lol |
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| 11:19.29 | karl_w_w | http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AlCp6gO3S56M_Q0RUW9o.ubNL31G;_ylv=3?qid=20130118002527AAYmBz3 "Do video games cause mass shootings?" - "yeah they do cause in the old west people would play video games an then shoot an kill an rob banks im sure jon dillenger played halo" |
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| 11:59.44 | durcyn | how about "does the glorification of violence, specifically gun violence, in popular media have any influence on consumers of said media" |
| 12:00.04 | durcyn | how about that karl_w_w |
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| 12:32.09 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 12:32.16 | bluspacecow | hmmm |
| 12:32.48 | bluspacecow | MTR or pathping ? looking for an equivalent of pathping for OS X |
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| 12:42.09 | bluspacecow | i loled |
| 12:42.13 | bluspacecow | did you lol fisker ? |
| 12:42.14 | bluspacecow | http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7592803098?page=6#101 |
| 12:44.54 | Fisker | i always lol |
| 12:45.29 | Kalrth | lol |
| 12:48.42 | durcyn | i've never met anyone who laughed silently, come to think of it |
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| 13:01.47 | VIad | getting hacked isn't always your direct fault :P |
| 13:02.19 | VIad | you expect a security update to fix issues, but then new issues are found and the endless update cycle continues - all you did was not update quick enough, or your programmer didn't release the patch quick enough :P |
| 13:02.53 | VIad | most cases I'd agree, but saying it's always the users fault is a bit of a stretch |
| 13:03.04 | durcyn | getting owned is one thing, getting owned because you were looking at porn or clicking on an email attachment from an obvious spam source, well |
| 13:03.27 | bluspacecow | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:03.32 | VIad | :p |
| 13:03.40 | bluspacecow | herro! |
| 13:04.06 | durcyn | be careful blu, someone pulled his string |
| 13:04.17 | bluspacecow | tampon string? |
| 13:04.30 | VIad | I just read bluspacecow's link |
| 13:04.37 | bluspacecow | oh rly |
| 13:04.38 | VIad | topic is called "Getting Hacked - Your OWN fault" |
| 13:04.46 | VIad | ye, didn't seem like durcyn was aware |
| 13:05.28 | zenzio | <durcyn> i've never met anyone who laughed silently, come to think of it <--- I think they came up with "lol" mostly because it sounds so silly with just "l" |
| 13:06.06 | durcyn | bluspacecow: http://i.imgur.com/AABHk.jpg |
| 13:06.33 | bluspacecow | *pulls vlad's string* |
| 13:06.49 | durcyn | weirdo. |
| 13:06.54 | bluspacecow | :3 |
| 13:07.58 | Kalrth | kinky |
| 13:08.10 | VIad | flash and java, aren't those like the top most vulnurable browser related plugins? :P |
| 13:08.14 | Kalrth | joins the böghög |
| 13:08.28 | durcyn | you're forgetting acrobat |
| 13:08.38 | durcyn | which for some godamn reason still exists |
| 13:09.05 | VIad | I think flash should have been left to macromedia |
| 13:09.12 | VIad | befroe they made it adobe and fucked it up :P |
| 13:09.30 | VIad | I can't rember, but was there so many issues with flash before adobe owned it? |
| 13:10.26 | bluspacecow | so many pdf exploits these days |
| 13:10.41 | durcyn | when it was just macromedia? i'm sure, it just wasn't targeted as much. |
| 13:10.46 | bluspacecow | *exploits vlad* |
| 13:10.51 | bluspacecow | *then pulls his string* |
| 13:11.02 | bluspacecow | vlad:QUACK! |
| 13:11.04 | durcyn | you think they rewrote the whole thing post acquisition? that's not how laziness functions. |
| 13:11.05 | bluspacecow | O_O |
| 13:11.12 | VIad | I smell sexual harrasment, bluspacecow - exploiting me and all |
| 13:11.18 | bluspacecow | oh poo |
| 13:11.20 | bluspacecow | you like it |
| 13:11.52 | VIad | I enjoy the attention you are giving me |
| 13:12.01 | VIad | s/giv/feed/ |
| 13:12.22 | bluspacecow | s/lik/lov |
| 13:12.30 | bluspacecow | s/lik/lov/ |
| 13:12.35 | bluspacecow | :| |
| 13:12.39 | VIad | :P |
| 13:15.34 | VIad | I made my phone sync my memory card from my psx emulator with my pc |
| 13:15.51 | VIad | so I can play final fantasy 8 on the pc when I am at home :P |
| 13:15.59 | VIad | or other psx games |
| 13:18.33 | VIad | why is Dropbox app so lame? |
| 13:18.36 | VIad | had to get DropSync |
| 13:18.52 | bluspacecow | y u haet? |
| 13:19.05 | VIad | the Dropbox app can't synx a hidden folder for instance |
| 13:19.23 | bluspacecow | *cough* hidden porn folder *cough* |
| 13:20.05 | VIad | I have taught you well |
| 13:23.59 | zenzio | I've hidden my porn folder by calling it Porn. Cause no-one ever thinks to look for that |
| 13:24.25 | VIad | called mine Nrop to confuse people |
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| 13:24.53 | zenzio | relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdtjvTNeO6M |
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| 13:27.51 | VIad | actually my porn folder is stripped of all permissions so you have to command line to be allowed to access or even view it :P |
| 13:28.21 | zenzio | sounds like someone hasn't come to terms with being honest about their porn |
| 13:28.51 | VIad | yes |
| 13:29.08 | VIad | it's pictures of you zenzio - no one must ever know, but us |
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| 13:29.23 | zenzio | don't be silly |
| 13:29.28 | zenzio | they're already all over 4chan |
| 13:29.37 | VIad | haha |
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| 15:02.43 | TC-work | ~ping |
| 15:02.43 | purl | ~pong |
| 15:17.35 | Shirik | "The impact of this incident on the aviation industry is great. That's why we feel the importance of swiftly producing a comprehensive report, free from bias," said Hideyo Kosugi, a JTSB inspector. "We hope to produce a report as soon as possible … within a week." |
| 15:17.41 | Shirik | I'm glad inspectors are learning HTML |
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| 16:37.00 | foxlit | http://www.kaleidoscopeapp.com/static/img/text-screenshot.png << It strikes me that we should be better at diffing structured text. |
| 16:38.18 | foxlit | "They <del> invent. They imagine. ... . They </del> push the human race forward" would be better as "<del>They invent. They imagine. ... .</del>They push the human race forward" |
| 16:38.29 | smcn | double space after period is for monsters |
| 16:40.46 | foxlit | It's the same problem I have with my current FrameXML diffing -- block ending tokens tend to be mismatched when things are deleted. |
| 16:44.42 | Shirik | foxlit: That diff looks reasonable |
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| 16:47.16 | foxlit | Shirik: the point is, it could look better. |
| 16:47.26 | Shirik | English could look better |
| 16:47.32 | Shirik | I think if we solved that problem first we'd be better off |
| 16:48.08 | foxlit | meh, I don't see a problem. It's just choosing the wrong option for the same edit distance. |
| 16:48.39 | foxlit | It could realize that the text is composed of sentences, and the edit removed a bunch of them. |
| 16:51.19 | karl_w_w | <smcn> double space after period is for monsters <- I concur |
| 16:52.57 | karl_w_w | well, ignoring the fact that you called it a period, obviously |
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| 16:54.32 | smcn | s/period/full stop |
| 16:55.31 | Shirik | (08:51:32) (karl_w_w) <smcn> double space after period is for monsters <- I concur |
| 16:55.32 | Shirik | yes plz |
| 16:59.44 | karl_w_w | http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2011/01/space_invaders.html |
| 17:00.01 | karl_w_w | the teachers mentioned on the second page should lose their jobs |
| 17:00.05 | karl_w_w | no 2 ways about it |
| 17:01.24 | nevcairiel | i had this kind of teachers, do it the way they do it exactly or fail the course, even if yours is equal or even better .p |
| 17:03.55 | Dagmar | I'll let you in on a little secret... NO ONE IS USING FIXED WIDTH ANYMORE, except on IRC. |
| 17:04.14 | Dagmar | If double-spaced periods bother you--if you can even SEE them--something is wrong with your font rendering. |
| 17:04.53 | karl_w_w | So you're telling me you can't see the double space in this sentence? |
| 17:05.09 | nevcairiel | most texts i look at is fixed-width, that being mostly irc and code :p |
| 17:05.34 | Dagmar | Inside the sentence, sure. After the period? Generally not unless a fixed-width font is involved should it even show up. |
| 17:05.42 | Dagmar | It's not that damn hard to add a double-space glyph to a font. |
| 17:06.07 | Shirik | is on IRC not using fixed width :( |
| 17:06.10 | karl_w_w | what possible use case would there be for a double-space glyph? |
| 17:06.11 | Dagmar | Just like fi and ll and tt and the other odd ones that font renderers automatically use a different glyph to render wiht |
| 17:06.28 | Dagmar | To make "typographers" shut hte fuck up |
| 17:06.58 | Dagmar | It could be rendered as a space-and-a-half wide, or with the width of a single space, and then the problem goes away. |
| 17:07.14 | karl_w_w | So you agree with people doing it the wrong way just for the sake of doing it the wrong way, even though the wrong way requires more work? |
| 17:07.24 | Dagmar | Who says it's wrong? |
| 17:07.37 | karl_w_w | Everyone. |
| 17:07.38 | Dagmar | A very small but vocal minority, who seldom cite reasons other than "I said so." |
| 17:07.58 | Dagmar | In that article the author even mentions that TONS of people use double-spacing |
| 17:08.37 | Dagmar | If you want to "fix" the problem, start killing all the idiot touch typing teachers. |
| 17:09.00 | Dagmar | You can start with the one I had at MTSU that threatened to give me a bad grade. |
| 17:09.06 | karl_w_w | lots of people doing something wrong != that's the right way to do it |
| 17:09.21 | karl_w_w | there is no reason to even think there should be a double space |
| 17:09.28 | Dagmar | She wanted my wrists on the wrist rest, and for me to improve my WPM by at least 40 over the course of the class. |
| 17:09.57 | Dagmar | karl_w_w: There actually was. Manual typewriters and the way their characters were laid out. |
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| 17:10.10 | Dagmar | It *could* be done away with, but it also not necessarily "wrong" |
| 17:10.55 | karl_w_w | we aren't using manual typewriters |
| 17:11.00 | Dagmar | By the way, I got an A in the typing class because I talked to administration about whether or not it was appropriate to discriminate against a student who started the class typing 89 WPM. |
| 17:11.02 | karl_w_w | well, at least I know I'm not |
| 17:11.19 | Dagmar | karl_w_w: Yes, but a large number of us still acutally used them. |
| 17:11.50 | karl_w_w | I'm not sure why that's relevant |
| 17:12.17 | Dagmar | Because those people are not dead. They're just older than people who are too young to have ever used a Woodpecker 2000 |
| 17:13.17 | karl_w_w | so you're saying those people can never change? |
| 17:13.25 | karl_w_w | stay the same until they die |
| 17:13.30 | Dagmar | No, I'm saying their viewpoint is just as valid as everyone else's |
| 17:13.38 | karl_w_w | no it isn't |
| 17:13.40 | karl_w_w | sorry |
| 17:13.47 | Dagmar | It really doesn't affect a huge amount of anything to have two spaces at the end of sentences |
| 17:14.24 | Dagmar | Arguing about whether or not a W should be drawn as two V's is probably marginally more productive. |
| 17:15.06 | Dagmar | Or better yet, start taking Microsoft and their users to task over broken-assed "smart quotes" that somehow never survive even a single reproduction correctly. |
| 17:15.28 | karl_w_w | course of events: everyone used single space -> manual typewriters came along with monospace which makes single spacing look bad -> ok, use double spacing with monospace to make it look good -> monospace went away -> no more need for double spacing -> go back to single spacing to make it look good |
| 17:16.10 | Dagmar | -> fail utterly to have proportional-spaced font engines deal with double-spaced endings in a manner that makes pedants happy |
| 17:16.41 | karl_w_w | there is no need to deal with double-spacing |
| 17:17.08 | Dagmar | No, the entire world should just immediately change a relatively inconsequential habit just because some people get really whiny baout it |
| 17:18.15 | karl_w_w | no people can do whatever they want, as long as they don't think it's the 'proper' way to do it |
| 17:18.22 | Dagmar | *ding* |
| 17:18.27 | karl_w_w | and those of us who know wtf we're doing can laugh at them |
| 17:19.15 | karl_w_w | I'm going to start using 2 full stops to end my sentence, the font renderer should cover it up for me.. |
| 17:20.38 | Dagmar | let us know when those become invisible. |
| 17:20.56 | Dagmar | it's fucking whitespace we're talking about, man. |
| 17:21.16 | Dagmar | Half the time the stuff winds up in fully-justified format anyway, and then god only knows how wide any given space is going to be. |
| 17:21.31 | karl_w_w | oh hell no |
| 17:21.38 | Dagmar | Oh hell yes |
| 17:22.10 | karl_w_w | ugliest thing ever |
| 17:22.22 | Dagmar | Tell it to every book publisher in existance. |
| 17:22.22 | karl_w_w | how to turn any body of text into a mess |
| 17:22.26 | Dagmar | ...and most of the newspapers. |
| 17:22.54 | karl_w_w | i love it when they do it on really narrow newspaper columns :P |
| 17:23.14 | karl_w_w | and there's like a little picture in there too |
| 17:23.22 | Dagmar | When 3/4 of the world is ignoring your problem, and a different 3/4 of the world disagrees, it's generally a sign you're tilting at windmills. |
| 17:23.33 | karl_w_w | you can end up with lines with only 5 characters on there |
| 17:24.01 | Arrowmaster | thats a big world |
| 17:24.29 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: Sets are not exclusive of one another. |
| 17:24.37 | Dagmar | Hence the word "different" being in there. |
| 17:24.41 | Dagmar | Sheesh. |
| 17:24.58 | karl_w_w | actually the word different implies... different |
| 17:25.15 | karl_w_w | as in, none of the same 3/4 |
| 17:25.23 | Dagmar | Well, you've found me out |
| 17:25.30 | Dagmar | Clearly I made up this whole thing about the existence of people. |
| 17:25.38 | karl_w_w | lol |
| 17:25.47 | Dagmar | heh |
| 17:25.52 | karl_w_w | is it possible to disagree with something you're ignoring? |
| 17:26.22 | Dagmar | How many people do you think both don't care about the double-space thing as well as never say anything baout it? |
| 17:27.15 | karl_w_w | it's hard to say |
| 17:27.46 | karl_w_w | come to think about it most people I know have voiced an opinion either way, so I'd have to say not many on my experience :P |
| 17:28.26 | Dagmar | looks around at all the fucks the rest of the channel gives. |
| 17:29.08 | chiel | i think it's mainly cause of tl;dr |
| 17:29.09 | chiel | : D |
| 17:29.24 | Dagmar | Sounds like apathy to me |
| 17:35.06 | neutronimity | I like what I like. |
| 17:36.18 | Dagmar | I'm going to refrain from saying something really sexist. |
| 17:45.47 | karl_w_w | something like "you'll like what I tell you to or I'm locking you in the kitchen again"? |
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| 17:57.14 | karl_w_w | defore- |
| 18:02.18 | TC-work | gloms karl_w_w |
| 18:04.10 | karl_w_w | 1. glom. v.t. - to cling with sudden suction. <- ? |
| 18:05.05 | TC-work | correct. I am an illithid |
| 18:05.53 | Unkle | psionic blast! |
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| 18:11.21 | *** join/#wowuidev bjelleklang (~chris@wikipedia/Bjelleklang) |
| 18:11.38 | TC-work | If only Unkle. My days would be so much nicer. |
| 18:13.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Hazal1 (~Mikkel@94.145.13.67) |
| 18:13.44 | pompy | http://www.gamingheads.com/newsletters/069b7de329e29300a138ed67f0916e3c74.html |
| 18:26.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~RyanNL@adsl-74-226-98-201.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 18:26.52 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 18:43.32 | Mr_Rabies | that made me browse around and i found this, pompy http://www.hlj.com/product/KBYSV-70 |
| 18:43.37 | Mr_Rabies | if only it wasn't so expensive :< |
| 18:47.11 | VIad | wish I could shorten the ff8 GF animations |
| 18:48.10 | TC-work | Mr_Rabies: $140 is not that bad. Whats worse is the bat symbol on his chest. |
| 18:48.25 | kd3 | vlad; why? they give you a perfect time to go make a sandwich |
| 18:48.32 | Mr_Rabies | that's accurate to the comic, though, TC-work |
| 18:49.31 | TC-work | meh |
| 18:49.36 | TC-work | it only works in context |
| 18:50.02 | karl_w_w | you must be talking about a different "the comic" than I have ever seen |
| 18:50.09 | Mr_Rabies | http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bBEYBL_ej_0/TavtrtIwOZI/AAAAAAAAKwE/MbcoCca1Ypw/s1600/BatmanTDKR3-142+Hunt+The+Dark+Knight.jpg |
| 18:50.16 | Mr_Rabies | it's from Dark Knight Returns |
| 18:50.17 | Semlar | Mass-produced products may show minor inconsistencies in paint and finish, which are not considered defects. |
| 18:50.46 | Mr_Rabies | it changes a few times, for some reason |
| 18:51.14 | karl_w_w | makes sense |
| 18:51.20 | karl_w_w | looks ugly though imo :P |
| 18:51.44 | TC-work | hmm...so personal gmail is down, but work gmail works fine |
| 18:51.45 | Mr_Rabies | it's supposed to |
| 18:51.53 | karl_w_w | it barely looks like a bat |
| 18:51.56 | Mr_Rabies | batman's not exactly in his prime in dark knight returns |
| 18:52.18 | karl_w_w | and that is really saying something compared to the other symbols which are meant to look like bats |
| 18:52.21 | Mr_Rabies | he's been retired for a while, and comes back to the job for one last hurrah, in his 50s or so |
| 18:52.56 | Mr_Rabies | also it's stylized as heck in general |
| 18:53.21 | Semlar | it looks like it encountered a steamroller |
| 18:53.25 | karl_w_w | i prefer the pointy one |
| 18:53.35 | Mr_Rabies | http://www.majorspoilers.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/dark-knight-returns.jpg |
| 18:54.08 | Semlar | is robin a girl |
| 18:54.16 | Mr_Rabies | yeah |
| 18:54.21 | karl_w_w | tries forever to try and find an example of the pointy one |
| 18:54.34 | Mr_Rabies | http://bigotherbigother.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/varley-color-04.jpg he wears this earlier, but that suit gets pretty heavily damaged |
| 18:57.21 | Mr_Rabies | here's a whole bunch of logos, karl_w_w |
| 18:57.48 | Mr_Rabies | er...sec |
| 18:58.22 | Mr_Rabies | http://i.imgur.com/2yPSR.jpg |
| 18:58.33 | Mr_Rabies | not nearly complete but there's quite a few |
| 19:00.40 | karl_w_w | the batman beyond sort of style |
| 19:01.24 | Semlar | i like the 2008 dark knight one |
| 19:01.45 | karl_w_w | yeah that one too |
| 19:02.22 | karl_w_w | the batman returns one is the best of the rounded ones |
| 19:02.30 | karl_w_w | but they're all a little bit odd |
| 19:02.46 | Dagmar | Oh come now |
| 19:02.58 | Dagmar | Dressing up like a giant bat is perfectly normal behaviour, surely. |
| 19:03.16 | Semlar | are you saying batman is a furry |
| 19:03.18 | Mr_Rabies | criminals are a superstitious, cowardly lot |
| 19:03.22 | Dagmar | I didn't sya it. |
| 19:03.37 | karl_w_w | we'd all dress up as a bat if it wasn't so expensive! |
| 19:03.42 | Dagmar | steps away from Mr_Rabies, just in case Batman heard that. |
| 19:04.11 | Mr_Rabies | http://www.dialbforblog.com/archives/224/batman_origin.gif |
| 19:04.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Darkchaos (~darkchaos@i59F79F9D.versanet.de) |
| 19:04.59 | karl_w_w | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEx9r5enZsk this is batman to me :P |
| 19:05.14 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, TAS is some of the best batman out there |
| 19:06.16 | Mr_Rabies | batman brave and the bold is simply amazing too, though generally quite different in tone |
| 19:06.48 | Mr_Rabies | brave and the bold is a love letter to the silver age of comics, but isn't afraid to do its own stuff |
| 19:07.30 | foxlit | when is the next desktop hardware refresh cycle, anyhow? |
| 19:07.48 | karl_w_w | whenever I have the cash for ot |
| 19:07.50 | karl_w_w | it |
| 19:07.55 | Mr_Rabies | isn't it pretty much constantly in flux nowadays, foxlit |
| 19:08.19 | foxlit | haswell and stuff? |
| 19:09.31 | Mr_Rabies | karl_w_w: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMaYVfm4cEE |
| 19:13.44 | Arrowmaster | foxlit: haswell is supposed to be coming in the next few months, im waiting for it to rebuild my desktop |
| 19:15.08 | foxlit | and what of GPUs? |
| 19:15.16 | Arrowmaster | no clue |
| 19:16.28 | Mr_Rabies | i really wish amd was a little more competitive with nvidia so prices might shrink again |
| 19:16.41 | Mr_Rabies | they're too inflated at the moment |
| 19:17.08 | Mr_Rabies | pricing and power usage seem to be consistently rising, with a small spike downwards from time to time |
| 19:17.15 | Arrowmaster | yeah i dont know what im going to do gpu wise when i rebuild |
| 19:17.53 | Arrowmaster | ive got a 275gtx that i think still works but the charts showed i needed to get a 560 or higher to top it |
| 19:24.32 | karl_w_w | http://www.yiannikoudental.com/en/articles/yes-and-no-in-dental-health some interesting things I just learnt |
| 19:27.03 | Fisker | hey foxlit |
| 19:27.14 | Fisker | according to intel it should deliver performance comparable to the GT650M |
| 19:27.18 | Fisker | the GT3 that is |
| 19:28.27 | foxlit | which translates to what at 2560x1600 with AA turned up to 11? |
| 19:30.11 | Fisker | don't know |
| 19:30.34 | Fisker | 9999 FPS if a blank texture maybe |
| 19:40.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (~Kalroth@d40aa5af.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 19:45.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaylin (~Kaylin@wlan097-007.wlan.wwu.edu) |
| 19:50.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen (~Sixen@173-25-23-124.client.mchsi.com) |
| 19:54.09 | bleeter | hugs Sixen |
| 19:54.18 | bleeter | BBBBRAAAAAAIIIIINNNNNSSSSS |
| 19:54.24 | bleeter | http://i.imgur.com/CB8C7.gif |
| 19:56.51 | TC-work | dat delayed turn.... |
| 19:58.29 | bleeter | a-yup |
| 19:58.48 | bleeter | so much stupid in so few frames |
| 20:00.34 | Fisker | why are you mad? |
| 20:04.04 | nevcairiel | bleeter: such people should get the big spinning piece of metal directly in the face |
| 20:05.29 | Fisker | a spinfusor? |
| 20:06.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (amarande@24-151-15-23.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 20:07.53 | bleeter | nevcairiel: all the big spinnings |
| 20:08.20 | Amarande | huh, interesting. when was the Sironas/Vector Coil quest made available to non-Draenei? |
| 20:08.42 | Amarande | I seem to remember those bits were mentioned as only available to Draenei last time I read a questing guide for Bloodmyst, but now my dwarf is offered them too |
| 20:09.14 | Amarande | or was that only the bit afterwards with the tabard that was race specific? |
| 20:10.52 | Amarande | (and it could have been anytime, heh, seeing as the questing guide was written a LONG time ago, like back when the mobs at the Vector Coil were still elite) |
| 20:11.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funkydude@5e02d5dc.bb.sky.com) |
| 20:11.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funkydude@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 20:11.16 | Kaylin | beats Sixen with a marlin. |
| 20:12.23 | bleeter | harsh |
| 20:12.33 | bleeter | fair, but harsh |
| 20:12.39 | Kaylin | he's ignoring me on AIM. |
| 20:17.00 | nevcairiel | people still use AIM? |
| 20:18.00 | Amarande | heh |
| 20:18.04 | Amarande | I'm surprised AIM still exists |
| 20:18.31 | Amarande | Microsoft recently merged their original and bought-out IMs into a single service, and AOL's owned ICQ for like ... how much longer than MS has owned Skype? |
| 20:18.57 | Arrowmaster | AIM and ICQ are technically merged |
| 20:19.16 | bleeter | not really, Arrowmaster. well, sorta |
| 20:19.40 | bleeter | Kaylin: if he's been using Pidgin, he might be ignoring AIM because of the expired certificate they were using in the past 24 hours |
| 20:19.40 | Arrowmaster | from what i remember cant you download the aim client and type in an ICQ account and log into it |
| 20:20.09 | Kaylin | he's not, aware of that issue |
| 20:20.28 | nevcairiel | Arrowmaster: so its all russian now? |
| 20:20.28 | Kaylin | I mean he's not ignoring it bc he was talking to me and then I told him a heartfelt story and he vanished. |
| 20:20.34 | bleeter | Arrowmaster: ah right yes. i was talking protocol level. though that may have changed a bit more recently. i tend to try and not follow the ins and outs at protocol level |
| 20:20.45 | Kaylin | it's still expired. |
| 20:21.02 | Arrowmaster | protocol level they are the same i thought |
| 20:21.10 | Arrowmaster | you can even add icq contacts to your aim account |
| 20:22.08 | Amarande | bleeter: heh, the protocols are that ugly? :) |
| 20:22.42 | Amarande | You'd think they'd all just rip off IRC or something like that, seeing as the IRC protocol is an open standard and they wouldn't have to pay any licencing fees whatever for it :) |
| 20:23.02 | Arrowmaster | that would be silly |
| 20:23.07 | VIad | does M$ own skype now? |
| 20:23.10 | Arrowmaster | yes |
| 20:23.16 | Arrowmaster | for over a year i thought |
| 20:23.19 | VIad | will they make skype protocol like msn protocol? |
| 20:23.24 | VIad | I mean, so we can make our own clients? |
| 20:23.28 | Arrowmaster | doubtful |
| 20:23.34 | VIad | -_- |
| 20:23.55 | Arrowmaster | they may or may not keep the msn protocol running though |
| 20:24.02 | Arrowmaster | i think they will |
| 20:24.12 | VIad | they won't :P |
| 20:24.16 | Stanzilla | for 2 years or so they said |
| 20:24.16 | bleeter | Arrowmaster: well it's all OSCAR but (iirc, afaik) libaim and libicq are different implementations of same http://hg.pidgin.im/pidgin/main/file/6f7deddb8850/libpurple/protocols/oscar |
| 20:24.18 | Stanzilla | and for china |
| 20:24.28 | bleeter | (see libaim.c and libicq.c) |
| 20:24.52 | Arrowmaster | bleeter: odd |
| 20:25.00 | Stanzilla | VIad: |
| 20:25.10 | bleeter | Arrowmaster: most closed protocols are odd |
| 20:25.13 | bleeter | s/most/all/ |
| 20:25.21 | bleeter | MSN and Y!M the worst, tho |
| 20:25.36 | Arrowmaster | so happy that gtalk just uses xmpp |
| 20:26.20 | Stanzilla | nobody uses gtalk |
| 20:26.25 | Arrowmaster | i do |
| 20:26.29 | bleeter | Arrowmaster: there's historical reasons to keep them seperate. before ICQ got bought by AOL, ICQ was very popular in certain countries. AIM in others. Forcing shutdown of all those ICQ users wasn't an option. Integrating the two protocols into one, did |
| 20:26.34 | bleeter | er, does |
| 20:26.44 | Stanzilla | google has way too many messaging systems anyway |
| 20:26.51 | Stanzilla | pretty stupid on android for example |
| 20:27.08 | Arrowmaster | i use gtalk on android |
| 20:27.32 | Arrowmaster | its the big reason i use gtalk, because its the only system that reaches me on my phone |
| 20:27.53 | Stanzilla | I have way too much shit |
| 20:27.54 | Stanzilla | whatsapp |
| 20:27.56 | Stanzilla | fb messenger |
| 20:27.59 | Stanzilla | sms |
| 20:28.00 | Stanzilla | skype |
| 20:28.10 | Stanzilla | gtalk, google+ messenger (yes, not the same) |
| 20:28.11 | Amarande | even odder is the idea of creating even more closed protocols to do the same thing |
| 20:28.17 | Amarande | how many chat protocols does the world really need, for instance |
| 20:28.25 | VIad | we need facebook messenger |
| 20:28.38 | VIad | otherwise everyone on fb will commit suicide |
| 20:28.39 | Stanzilla | fb messenger is fine, xmpp too |
| 20:28.41 | Arrowmaster | nobody sms's me, dont have fb installed on my phone, dont use skype so i dont have it installed either |
| 20:28.54 | Amarande | hell, this is perhaps *the* primary reason why software patents are a vile thing |
| 20:28.59 | VIad | I don't use fb either, but with msn going down I will be on skype more |
| 20:29.17 | bleeter | Stanzilla: actually, GTalk and G+ messenger are the same. People just aren't used to the idea of federated XMPP servers (and Google doesn't provide the option to not have federated login which shits me to tears..) |
| 20:29.26 | Arrowmaster | i only used msn for one reason, the xbox ambassador bot on msn |
| 20:29.26 | Amarande | there's something to be said for rewarding genuine innovations, on the other hand, forcing developers to keep reinventing the wheel when they could be spending their time *on* innovation is a major effect of such patents |
| 20:29.38 | Amarande | i.e., protocol remains closed (often even if the specs are available) and yet another one ends up having to come out. :P |
| 20:29.40 | Stanzilla | bleeter: yes, and still 2 apps instead of one on every phone |
| 20:29.44 | bleeter | (at a protocol level, pretty much, not the same app) |
| 20:29.56 | Stanzilla | which is bullshit |
| 20:30.07 | bleeter | Stanzilla: as it should be, until they sort out the federated backend foo |
| 20:30.23 | Stanzilla | probably |
| 20:30.26 | bleeter | or you can use pidgin and just have one app |
| 20:30.28 | nevcairiel | just dont use the g+ messenger? :p |
| 20:30.38 | Stanzilla | I don't |
| 20:30.39 | bleeter | (note that libpurple is available for android, just no one's done a front end yet) |
| 20:31.19 | nevcairiel | i only use skype on a regular basis, and somtimes gtalk for one or two people i cant reach otherwise |
| 20:31.33 | nevcairiel | oh and whatsapp as sms replacement |
| 20:32.06 | Stanzilla | you never answered me on whatsapp |
| 20:32.08 | Stanzilla | meany |
| 20:32.27 | nevcairiel | it only showed some random number, i figured spammer |
| 20:32.29 | nevcairiel | and i was right |
| 20:32.35 | Stanzilla | no you did not |
| 20:32.39 | Stanzilla | we talked about it on irc :D |
| 20:32.47 | nevcairiel | i know, but it was still a spammer |
| 20:32.53 | Stanzilla | such a dick |
| 20:33.16 | nevcairiel | but i lost the info now anyway, never created a contact for it and now i have a new phone |
| 20:33.30 | Stanzilla | happy with it so far? |
| 20:34.39 | nevcairiel | yeah. the thing i like the most is the animation when i turn the screen off, i think its kinda weird to like such a small detail that much, but what can you do :P |
| 20:34.54 | Stanzilla | yeah that's cool :D |
| 20:35.12 | nevcairiel | and finally a phone again with a notification led |
| 20:35.23 | nevcairiel | stupid samsung didnt have it |
| 20:35.51 | bleeter | some phone devs get really funny about how that led is 'pointless' |
| 20:36.00 | Alram | i love the notification led on my gs3 |
| 20:36.00 | bleeter | makes me so stabby |
| 20:36.03 | Alram | its the best thing |
| 20:36.26 | Amarande | nev: why do you need it? |
| 20:36.35 | Amarande | I know on Galaxies, the notification bar shows on the lock screen |
| 20:36.46 | Amarande | so you can tell just by nudging the power button whether you have any |
| 20:37.34 | Amarande | I'm presuming that's what you want, to be able to see if you have a notification without having to bother to unlock the screen? |
| 20:39.33 | Amarande | aright, time to go finish up with the Land of Red Kool-Aid and move on towards Stranglethorn. :) |
| 20:40.02 | Fisker | nah Alram |
| 20:40.09 | Fisker | n4 notification led master led |
| 20:40.50 | Amarande | besides, usually notifications aren't worth looking at right away anyway |
| 20:41.09 | Amarande | "oh, someone posted on facebook" etc. |
| 20:41.33 | Arrowmaster | i have that solved by not having facebook app installed |
| 20:42.14 | Amarande | or it's my turn in Words With Friends |
| 20:42.19 | Amarande | you get like ... ten days to take your turn, heh |
| 20:43.07 | Arrowmaster | and i only have 1 zynga game, and it doesnt require an account to play |
| 20:43.16 | Arrowmaster | since i wont create a zynga account |
| 20:46.21 | *** join/#wowuidev hefenwind (~Adium@69.178.139.10) |
| 20:52.23 | Amarande | ah, the fun of needing a zynga account |
| 20:52.27 | Amarande | I ran into that when I got Hanging With Friends |
| 20:52.46 | Amarande | and I of course bought the ad-free almost right away, but didn't realise I needed to set up a full-fledged zynga account for it |
| 20:53.01 | Amarande | ended up having to email Zynga to make the ad-free I paid for work, because I kept getting ads anyway even after forking over the money :P |
| 20:54.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaylin (~Kaylin@wlan097-007.wlan.wwu.edu) |
| 20:59.22 | Dagmar | For similar reasons I don't fucking "buy" apps through the Amazon store anymore. |
| 20:59.34 | Dagmar | They require you be logged into the Amazone store to even work. |
| 21:01.24 | Amarande | ick. |
| 21:01.35 | Amarande | hrm. at what level btw do you start encountering mobs that actually are worthwhile to use pickpocket on? |
| 21:01.53 | Amarande | at this level, all you get is a few extra coppers and a big risk of having to hack the mob down the normal way because they'll spot you and spoil your Ambush |
| 21:02.18 | Dagmar | When you start pickpocketing dragons. |
| 21:02.26 | smcn | you can macro pickpocket to your openers |
| 21:02.33 | Dagmar | That. |
| 21:02.35 | smcn | it doesn't use gcd |
| 21:03.23 | Dagmar | When pickpocket got seriously worthwhile stuff, rogues just ran around stealthing through instances, pickpocketing everything, killing the bosses, and leaving under the crushing weight of giant sacks of loot |
| 21:03.33 | Dagmar | Now it's a pre-combat loot buff. |
| 21:05.53 | Amarande | also I'm not sure just what they changed design-wise between BC and now |
| 21:06.05 | Amarande | but rogues are way more fun now than they were. not sure why the class is fairly unpopular lately. :S |
| 21:06.20 | Amarande | last time I tried a rogue was back in BC or Wrath and I remember it being a fest of dirt naps and hair-pullingly hard fights |
| 21:06.24 | Amarande | now it's quite fun :) |
| 21:06.54 | Amarande | (nor am I quite sure how much to thank the three pieces of BoA I have) |
| 21:12.33 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 21:20.18 | smcn | melee dps has only gotten harder in raid situations and that's all a rogue does, that would be my guess |
| 21:20.40 | Amarande | yeah I think a lot of melee DPS got scared off by Cata |
| 21:21.00 | Amarande | it's partly rational to believe that the reason the fangs of the father were introduced was as a stop-loss on rogues on realms |
| 21:21.14 | Amarande | or at least *a* reason |
| 21:21.48 | Amarande | mists doesn't seem so bad so far, in fact on my mage I frequently find myself wishing I *was* melee |
| 21:22.31 | Amarande | Cata, on the other hand, I remember having about as good a relationship with melee as the Westboro Baptist Church has with sane people :P |
| 21:24.26 | Amarande | Actually, oddly enough, rogues actually DID have majorly awesome DPS in Cata. But it's kind of hard to realise that when you're fighting bosses like that rock golem in Stonecore where you spend half the fight running back and forth :) |
| 21:25.03 | Amarande | "oh hey! you got a hit in. now he's charging up for his big surrounding AoE and you'll need to run out again. what's that, you wanted to DPS? oh, sorry." |
| 21:25.32 | Amarande | but yeah, Mists has much the better of it. :D |
| 21:29.58 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 21:32.52 | kd3 | 46c in sydney? eek |
| 21:33.33 | zenzelezz | or as they call it, a mild summer day |
| 21:33.50 | Humbedooh | global warming? pffft! |
| 21:36.19 | Amarande | hah |
| 21:36.28 | Amarande | well, Australian summers have always been notably vicious |
| 21:36.52 | Amarande | I seem to remember reading that pretty much the first thing the British experienced about Australia when they got there was how horrendously hot the summer gets |
| 21:38.03 | Amarande | it was already in the low 40s C in February there back in the 1700s |
| 21:41.05 | zenzelezz | why do you think they chose it for their prison island? |
| 21:42.27 | Dagmar | because it was as far away from civilization as to make return impossible. |
| 21:42.47 | Kaylin | still wants to kill and BBQ a roo. |
| 21:42.52 | Dagmar | That it was a hell on earth was just a bonus. |
| 21:43.26 | Kaylin | feels this is complicated by AUS's lack of lax gun laws, and the fact that she does not live there. |
| 21:43.27 | Dagmar | Last week I was harassing guildmates there to turn the fucking heat down because it was making our winters hot. |
| 21:44.15 | Dagmar | Guns will not help you when everything larger than a field mouse (and several things that aren't) has a venomous bite and optionally a ranged venomous bite. |
| 21:44.36 | Kaylin | or a ranged death kick hop and a giant thwompy tail |
| 21:44.53 | Dagmar | Yep. |
| 21:45.09 | Kaylin | I still want to butcher/bbq/eat one. |
| 21:45.31 | Dagmar | Gaines kept having to be rescued by his wife because the kids would say something about "a spider" and he'd go "Ohhh there's no need to be skeered of this teeny thing" and try and pick it up with a tissue. |
| 21:46.01 | Dagmar | Nevermind that said spider has been known to kill tigers. |
| 21:46.03 | Dagmar | For fun. |
| 21:46.11 | Kaylin | oo what kind of spider? |
| 21:46.12 | Dagmar | *shudder* |
| 21:46.19 | Kaylin | also, NOPENOPENOPE |
| 21:46.21 | Dagmar | The kind I never, ever want to see. |
| 21:46.30 | Dagmar | I have enough problems being bitten by brown recluses. |
| 21:46.41 | Dagmar | THOSE you can develop a resistance to. |
| 21:50.42 | Amarande | We're talking "makes the spider wing of Naxx seem cuddly and cosy" spiders here |
| 21:51.07 | Kaylin | I have to put people on follow for the spider wing and be scared already. |
| 21:52.00 | Amarande | oh dear gods what did I do this time |
| 21:52.06 | Amarande | the taint glitch is back on my rogue :| |
| 21:53.20 | Amarande | It's simple enough to fix, but I wish I knew exactly what causes it. |
| 21:53.30 | Amarande | seems to be related to Bartender, at any rate |
| 21:56.05 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-68-38-56-4.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 21:56.33 | Adys | http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/careers/posting.html?id=130000Y |
| 21:56.34 | Adys | wtf |
| 21:56.46 | Adys | how are.. what.. the |
| 21:56.58 | Adys | They don't have anyone to promote for it internally? |
| 21:57.09 | Kaylin | (or don't want to) |
| 21:57.12 | Stanzilla | hahaha |
| 21:57.13 | Kaylin | (which would be sad) |
| 21:57.13 | Stanzilla | so bad |
| 21:58.19 | Adys | it's seriously scary |
| 21:58.43 | Cairenn | o.O |
| 21:58.52 | Adys | someone mentioned wyatt cheng was a likely successor |
| 21:59.12 | Adys | I love the guy, wonder if it came up |
| 21:59.29 | Amarande | one wonders why they even post things like this to the web as general advertisements like that |
| 21:59.52 | Adys | hey Bibi |
| 21:59.56 | Adys | post it as news on mmo-champion |
| 22:00.03 | Amarande | aren't these basically the kind of jobs where there's like maybe 20 specific people or so in the entire world who even possibly meet the qualifications and Blizz can just get in touch with them on an individual basis instead of having to reach out with a job posting? :) |
| 22:00.04 | Adys | there might be a gem in the users. |
| 22:01.06 | Amarande | we're talking basically "someone who's been a games director for one of the top 10-20 or so games companies in the industry" which can't really be that many heh |
| 22:01.33 | Cairenn | It was all over the news yesterday: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7592242994 |
| 22:01.45 | Arrowmaster | i know for government jobs and such they are required to post them up publicly even if they already know who exactly is going to take the position, could it be something similar with CA law? |
| 22:01.48 | Adys | Cairenn: yes but the actual job posting wasnt |
| 22:01.52 | Cairenn | nod |
| 22:01.57 | Adys | Cairenn: i just assumed they had someone lined up for him |
| 22:02.04 | Cairenn | nod |
| 22:02.37 | Ressy | They're probably leaving options open, in case someone would leave their job at another studio to take this. |
| 22:02.46 | MysticalOS2 | http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/vote-jay-wilsons-departure#comments heh |
| 22:02.49 | MysticalOS2 | the good ole poll |
| 22:06.34 | bleeter | they may have someone in mind, but straight out poaching isn't an option and their 'fishing' for an application |
| 22:06.44 | bleeter | but behind the scenes there's a nod and a wink |
| 22:06.53 | bleeter | that kinda hiring practice goes on all the time |
| 22:07.04 | bleeter | s/their/they're/ |
| 22:07.23 | bleeter | YAY A WEB POLL LET'S WRITE A CURL SCRIPT... |
| 22:08.20 | Kaylin | :P |
| 22:09.29 | bleeter | Jay's post almost reads like he's heading off to the new IP /shrug |
| 22:10.09 | TC-work | 'titan' |
| 22:10.15 | bleeter | that one yeah |
| 22:10.17 | TC-work | or did that change |
| 22:10.18 | TC-work | ok |
| 22:11.25 | Adys | bleeter: Supposedly he is |
| 22:11.29 | bleeter | I know if I were senior VP of development at Blizz, I'd be wanting to get my most experienced people on that around about now (SC2 well bedded down, WoW is WoW, D3's next refresh no doubt started but has a while to go) |
| 22:11.49 | Adys | thats what i heard anyway |
| 22:12.02 | Adys | then again i dont think Titan is still on |
| 22:12.26 | bleeter | I just think of Titan as 'next Blizz release which'll be new IP' |
| 22:12.36 | bleeter | they probably have a couple of things kicking around internally |
| 22:12.37 | Adys | pretty much |
| 22:13.08 | bleeter | never know, all under dev may be called 'titan' as a bit of a joke about the Titans of Warcraft |
| 22:13.37 | bleeter | and each thing they're messing with is a different titan |
| 22:13.45 | bleeter | ~emulate bleeter |
| 22:13.45 | purl | ACTION rant RANT rant waaa MOAR COFFEE <sub>GOOD IDEA</sub>rant waa MOAR COFFEE rant rant MOAR MOAR <blink><h1>terribad idea</h1></blink> rant |
| 22:19.08 | zenzelezz | www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/18/newly-hired-school-guard-leaves-unattended-handgun-in-student-bathroom/ |
| 22:24.15 | Arrowmaster | well this is an interesting trend http://w3techs.com/technologies/history_details/os-linux |
| 22:26.54 | Adys | Arrowmaster: wheres arch T_T |
| 22:27.14 | Arrowmaster | non existent, this is for webservers |
| 22:27.24 | Adys | Oh |
| 22:27.29 | Dagmar | Hanging out in a corner hoping anyone still cares. |
| 22:27.53 | Amarande | Arrow: not surprised, think in terms of things like cost and risk |
| 22:28.05 | Amarande | Red Hat is going to be down because RHEL has to be paid for |
| 22:28.34 | Arrowmaster | but CentOS is going down too |
| 22:28.38 | Amarande | Debian would be likely to be favoured, since not only is it free as in beer, but they take great pains to make sure it's also free as in speech, so there's no unexpected licence bugaboos like distros that throw in software more liberally might have |
| 22:28.44 | Dagmar | This is a good thing. |
| 22:29.09 | Kaylin | mmm debian flavoured cola would be good. |
| 22:29.15 | Dagmar | Well, that and the Debian guys act like rabid badgers when lawsuit trollery happens |
| 22:29.43 | Dagmar | I think they should just murder a few lawyers each time and call it handled, personally. |
| 22:30.01 | zenzelezz | I liked http://w3techs.com/technologies/details/js-jquery/1.0/all ... according to the tweet, 33 out of top 1 million uses jQuery 1.0 |
| 22:30.03 | Adys | http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/01/google-looks-to-kill-the-password-using-the-ring-on-your-finger/ |
| 22:30.04 | Adys | yes |
| 22:30.05 | Adys | finally |
| 22:30.26 | Dagmar | Hot damn |
| 22:30.28 | Amarande | Adys: here's the thing though |
| 22:30.48 | Dagmar | I actually bought a ring once that had a chip in it you could use for hard token auth, but it had drivers for approximately nothing. |
| 22:30.48 | Amarande | from a real security standpoint ... it's basically a convenient, physical, easy to carry and hard to forget ... password |
| 22:31.15 | Adys | Public key |
| 22:31.16 | Adys | not password |
| 22:31.25 | Dagmar | Oh and it was also fairly damn ugly. Looked like someone shoved a watch battery in the front of a signet ring. |
| 22:31.31 | Adys | A physical public key at that |
| 22:31.49 | Amarande | Adys: public keys aren't really much more than long, strong, impossibly hard in terms of currently known technology and time constraints to guess passwords :) |
| 22:31.59 | Adys | They are completely different |
| 22:32.05 | Arrowmaster | yeah completely different |
| 22:32.17 | Amarande | given that we define "password" in the generic of "string of data that must be supplied in order to authenticate a person or system" |
| 22:32.31 | Adys | fine |
| 22:32.32 | Adys | AAAAB3NzaC1yc2EAAAABIwAAAQEAlTF4xePMJnlWcmjJsF9skBgNFFJgWU6df55680JiNtv4vVnDpojFwi9AQUaIwQftl5/0EGy8SEePw8wcB944qEtuW5mDab9J7Ux1Cwx481+Ln5EQECibK4mojvAA4j6rEpmfGDOH0lpqA6hTO5N+MDahedH9F53vEoi7l2SZpYXHydD52sfO6TyrO0zoTTwphcycAPDxxw8ywAy5gWUWcDRS5A+r+eW02P6umioXMB5KANQYPlh6HpdQBq0fOa6vWQTYelh1fLx8l5spxYMydjht9sK9TNSJRronlLfJPkFBC+hSHVSabI+E72dZ3iShAUxph7GfCbGxRJG7hOFJvw== |
| 22:32.32 | Adys | hack me |
| 22:32.37 | Amarande | heh |
| 22:32.49 | TC-work | no, but we will pastebin you |
| 22:33.01 | Amarande | well, the point I was making is that the true difficulty of Internet security is that basically *everything* you can come up with in terms of security solutions |
| 22:33.11 | Amarande | while it might work perfectly well and be a real additional factor on the local machine |
| 22:33.22 | Amarande | it's going to have to be converted into a string of data in order to be transmitted for remote authentication |
| 22:33.37 | Amarande | and at that point it just becomes yet another form of "something you know" authentication |
| 22:33.49 | Arrowmaster | wrong again |
| 22:34.05 | Shadowed | He's not entirely wrong |
| 22:34.05 | Dagmar | buried under thousands of years of computational hate, hopefully. |
| 22:34.08 | Shadowed | he's just not entirely right |
| 22:34.30 | Adys | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public-key_cryptography |
| 22:34.57 | Adys | ... ouch, wikipedia. |
| 22:35.18 | Amarande | *ultimately*, remote authentication can only use two paradigms: static secrets (passwords, public/private keys, etc., etc.) or changing secrets (one-time pad and its derivatives), no? |
| 22:35.36 | Amarande | since the Internet only transmits data, the only things you can really use to authenticate with over it are data |
| 22:35.40 | Shadowed | The advantage to something like yubikey is that it increases the password length and you can do more complicated authentication schemes that you can't with just a static password that is ultimately sent to the internet |
| 22:35.44 | Dagmar | Yes, but it's how the secrets are shared that makes a huge difference. |
| 22:35.52 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: wrong, public key is not static |
| 22:35.52 | Adys | Amarande: The difference in public key crypto is you don't share the private key |
| 22:35.52 | Amarande | you can derive the data from things like biometrics or a physical device, but it still must be data |
| 22:35.56 | Adys | which is the whole point |
| 22:36.12 | Dagmar | Acutally I think from reading that the yubikey goes a bit farther than usual in that supplies it's own copy of Chrome as well |
| 22:36.28 | Shadowed | I don't think that's actually true Dagmar, or it wasn't when I played with it |
| 22:36.35 | Shadowed | maybe they offer it as some sort of extra secure lockdown mode |
| 22:36.49 | Dagmar | Mainly I was disappointed the article couldn't show us a freakin' picture |
| 22:36.56 | Amarande | Arrow: only in the sense that you expire keys regularly and generate new ones, right? |
| 22:37.04 | Arrowmaster | Shadowed: hes talking about the one in the article saying they have a custom version of chrome for it |
| 22:37.08 | Shadowed | oh that |
| 22:37.10 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: no |
| 22:37.28 | Amarande | you should be changing passwords regularly, too. by "static secret" I mean one where the same authentication information is used more than once, as opposed to a one-time pad |
| 22:37.32 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: you have zero idea of how public/private key auth is handled |
| 22:37.41 | Amarande | i.e., one for which repeated guessing is at least in theory a possibility |
| 22:37.48 | Dagmar | No. |
| 22:38.10 | Arrowmaster | you can not do a 'replay attack' or similar with proper pub/private key auth because a bit of random data is used |
| 22:38.17 | Dagmar | There's no repeated guessing that's likely to get you around the result of a decent keypair |
| 22:38.26 | Amarande | ah, so it basically uses a bit of one-time pad mojo too, then |
| 22:38.35 | Dagmar | Yes. |
| 22:38.37 | Arrowmaster | yes and no |
| 22:39.03 | Dagmar | If you wanted to crack it, you'd generally have to boil Jupiter down into energy and use that to power the cracking engines. |
| 22:39.07 | Shadowed | the point is that you greatly increase the time complexity to break it |
| 22:39.16 | Amarande | Yeah. With current tech, we're pretty much safe. |
| 22:39.19 | Shadowed | because rather than trying to break 16 characters |
| 22:39.22 | Shadowed | you're trying to break 4000 |
| 22:39.30 | Shadowed | which is slightly harder |
| 22:39.37 | Dagmar | "slightly" lol |
| 22:39.40 | Amarande | (Quantum computers may be another matter - has it even advanced enough to even theorise how rapidly QCs might be able to crack stuff?) |
| 22:39.43 | Dagmar | I wasn't kidding about Jupiter |
| 22:39.45 | Shadowed | that has sarcquotes around it |
| 22:39.47 | Adys | Shadowed: that is one feature |
| 22:39.56 | Adys | Shadowed: but that's not the serious issue with passwords |
| 22:40.00 | Adys | at least on the net |
| 22:40.04 | Adys | *especially* on the net in fact |
| 22:40.16 | Shadowed | sure it is |
| 22:40.17 | Adys | The issue comes down to databases getting compromised |
| 22:40.28 | Shadowed | When you consider that databases get leaked exposing passwords, and that people reuse passwords on multiple sites |
| 22:40.32 | Shadowed | etc |
| 22:40.39 | Dagmar | QCs don't break things. They just give you the damn answer. |
| 22:40.56 | Adys | Shadowed: yeah but then you're not trying to break the password at all |
| 22:41.03 | Amarande | Shadowed: yeah, poor password hygiene is sadly an epidemic in today's world |
| 22:41.05 | Shadowed | sure you are |
| 22:41.09 | Dagmar | Probably some universes get destroyed and created in the process, but they're all somewhere else so fuck them |
| 22:41.11 | Shadowed | that is very much trying to break the password |
| 22:41.33 | Shadowed | brute forcing the hash or just brute forcing a login (whether brute force is dictionary or going by birthday/etc) is still breaking a password |
| 22:41.36 | Adys | no, in a lot of cases you already have it |
| 22:41.37 | Adys | yeah |
| 22:41.49 | Shadowed | which is something you solve when you're using something like say, a public key |
| 22:42.12 | Adys | if i get a db dump ill get a rainbow table; if i find a salt ill run a dict attack on it |
| 22:42.22 | bleeter | QCs don't break things. Clusters of PS3's running Linux break things. |
| 22:42.23 | Adys | and that's as far as ill go, unless there is really valuable data in it |
| 22:42.29 | bleeter | which is why they're (practically) illegal |
| 22:42.47 | Dagmar | Only if yer in an ITAR-restricted country. |
| 22:42.49 | Arrowmaster | wonder how much i could sell my old ps3 for |
| 22:42.52 | Dagmar | Someone sounds bitter. :) |
| 22:43.08 | Adys | Shadowed: my point is in most db leaks it's not how "hard" it is to break the password itself that's worrisome |
| 22:43.15 | Shadowed | uhhhh |
| 22:43.38 | Adys | because that can be attenuated with different hashing algorithms and such |
| 22:43.49 | Dagmar | I would be more worried about what password ciphertexts were quietly changed to new, known values |
| 22:43.56 | Adys | it's the fact that you have it at all in the first place |
| 22:44.00 | Adys | hell |
| 22:44.08 | Adys | screw db leaks |
| 22:44.18 | Adys | keyloggers themselves are a serious issue |
| 22:44.52 | Adys | or fake forms, or serverside mitm that intercepts the password |
| 22:44.57 | Adys | or, or, ... |
| 22:45.08 | Adys | a host of issues you dont have with public key auth at all |
| 22:45.50 | Amarande | Adys: hence my "it's just a complex password" argument about so many forms of auth |
| 22:46.12 | Adys | public key auth is not just a complex password |
| 22:46.20 | Amarande | "password" here could be generalised as "all you need is this piece of data and you're in like Flint" systems |
| 22:46.24 | Adys | it's a completely different authentication protocol |
| 22:46.34 | Amarande | whereas in OTP systems each piece of data is useful only once and is then worthless |
| 22:47.44 | Adys | Amarande: a public key is worthless without a private key |
| 22:48.26 | Adys | and you are not transmitting the private key, period |
| 22:49.41 | foxlit | You're sure that there's no way to compute (however computationally demanding) the private key from the public key? |
| 22:50.05 | Adys | There is, but that is a completely theoretical issue |
| 22:50.50 | Adys | the host of issues with passwords are real-world issues which affect tens to hundreds of thousands of people very regularly |
| 22:52.04 | Adys | when you reach a certain level you might as well say "i dont see the point of encrypting my data, someone could just guess every bit on my hard drive" |
| 22:53.23 | foxlit | I don't feel like pointing out the subtle inaccuracies anymore. Feel free to continue this conversation with others, if anyone is still alive. |
| 22:55.10 | Adys | foxlit: please point it out... |
| 22:55.35 | Adys | What I'm saying here is this solves a real world problem |
| 22:55.49 | Adys | as imperfect as it might be |
| 22:59.03 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (~p3lim@88.36.34.95.customer.cdi.no) |
| 23:00.57 | foxlit | I have no comments about "this" (which I think is a reference to the conversation about 20 minutes back); merely some of the subsequent assertions. It's just pedantry, which I suspect isn't really appropriate in this context. |
| 23:01.26 | Adys | Well go ahead and comment |
| 23:01.35 | Adys | I don't see the point of this meta-discussion |
| 23:01.52 | foxlit | The point of this meta-discussion is to explain why I'm not going to continue it. |
| 23:02.19 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@2601:a:f00:1f:5c2e:d6da:4cc6:25da) |
| 23:02.20 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 23:02.59 | Adys | you don't need to explain why you're not continuing a discussion... |
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| 23:03.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Ressy (~Ressy@unaffiliated/ressy) |
| 23:05.10 | Adys | I find this extremely arrogant seriously. You end a discussion with basically "You're wrong, but I won't explain why, because my explanations are just pedantry" |
| 23:05.16 | Adys | shrugs |
| 23:12.09 | Kalroth | scrolls up |
| 23:13.43 | Kalroth | scrolls back down |
| 23:17.02 | TC-work | That sounds dirty |
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| 23:41.42 | Neffi | this cat makes an amazing point http://i.imgur.com/WQdkc.png |
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