| 00:01.57 | kd3 | emails out |
| 00:02.21 | TC-work | for once i did not vibrate as you said that |
| 00:02.25 | Vlad| | what kind? |
| 00:02.26 | TC-work | aaaaand there we go |
| 00:02.33 | Mr_Rabies | http://i.imgur.com/BoaYZ.jpg |
| 00:02.34 | Mr_Rabies | lol |
| 00:02.51 | kd3 | I send out diffs of the ui when we get new builds on the ptr/beta |
| 00:03.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Wa (~wa@50.45.207.38) |
| 00:03.09 | Vlad| | Mr_Rabies on PTR? |
| 00:03.15 | Vlad| | new place or just old zones being changed? |
| 00:03.21 | TC-work | once his 56k connection DL's it of course |
| 00:03.22 | Mr_Rabies | in siege of niuzao temple apparently |
| 00:03.26 | Vlad| | hmm |
| 00:03.30 | Mr_Rabies | on live |
| 00:03.39 | Mr_Rabies | http://imgur.com/a/h41R4 |
| 00:03.41 | kd3 | I downloaded it last night, just forgot to actually patch >.< |
| 00:04.30 | Vlad| | hmm |
| 00:04.39 | Vlad| | I haven't seen it Mr_Rabies |
| 00:04.53 | Mr_Rabies | apparently eagle eye |
| 00:05.18 | Mr_Rabies | it makes sense, many instances use copy/pasted versions of the game's terrain, even some in an earlier state of development |
| 00:05.22 | Vlad| | ah |
| 00:05.26 | Vlad| | yeah |
| 00:05.49 | Vlad| | but it's new adding a whole texture just to put some text |
| 00:05.49 | Vlad| | :D |
| 00:05.57 | Mr_Rabies | i think townlong was one of the last-finished zones |
| 00:06.22 | kd3 | right up until they redid the jf landing zones |
| 00:06.23 | Vlad| | heck, shadopan isn't even properly done yet, the dailies that is, it feels cheap |
| 00:08.28 | Mr_Rabies | sra'vess is a hellhole |
| 00:08.46 | Mr_Rabies | i expected to die 3-4 times every time i went |
| 00:08.54 | Vlad| | lol :D |
| 00:08.57 | Vlad| | how come? |
| 00:09.18 | Mr_Rabies | being attacked by 10 mobs at a time that do 30k damage with an attack they can do every few seconds |
| 00:11.16 | Vlad| | I can imagine |
| 00:11.18 | Vlad| | I play tank tough ;D |
| 00:11.31 | Vlad| | and watch their fire totems |
| 00:11.33 | Vlad| | 30k each :P |
| 00:11.57 | Mr_Rabies | it's the sonic blasts that kill me |
| 00:18.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Vlad| (~Vlad|@102.111.45.31.customer.cdi.no) |
| 00:25.11 | foxlit | Why are you pulling 10 mobs to begin with? |
| 00:25.37 | Vlad| | good question |
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| 00:33.44 | Mr_Rabies | foxlit: no choice at sra'vess |
| 00:33.54 | Mr_Rabies | mobs that fear and have a huge aggro radius |
| 00:36.13 | Vlad| | next time just inv me to group |
| 00:36.17 | Vlad| | I am usually helpful :P |
| 00:36.33 | Vlad| | I swipe and trash down 10+ mobs :p |
| 00:36.51 | kd3 | the only fear mobs are the will-breakers... |
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| 00:41.17 | Semlar | and me |
| 00:41.30 | Semlar | i'll fear them |
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| 00:51.59 | znf | Anyone actively did pet battles? |
| 00:57.24 | foxlit | oh, sre |
| 00:57.28 | foxlit | sure |
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| 01:01.15 | Semlar | i can't figure out what comes after the strings in the questcache |
| 01:01.34 | mckenziemc | probably a string terminator |
| 01:01.56 | Semlar | i mean after the set of strings |
| 01:02.01 | Semlar | there's some more data |
| 01:02.07 | Semlar | it's not more strings, it's variable length and not always divisible by 4 |
| 01:02.50 | Vlad| | LOL |
| 01:02.52 | Vlad| | http://www.netetrader.com/contact.asp safe? |
| 01:03.05 | Semlar | seems legit |
| 01:03.50 | Vlad| | "shoe for kid" |
| 01:03.54 | Vlad| | pronounced with chinese accent |
| 01:03.59 | Vlad| | made me giggle |
| 01:06.39 | Archarodim | Could anyone having a Blizzard US account report the following thread on their bug report forum: http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?p=262811#post262811 else it might take them years to notice the issue and another few years to actually fix it |
| 01:06.56 | Vlad| | I estimate one year if lucky |
| 01:07.07 | Vlad| | that's how long a bug I reported took, reported in cata beta, fixed in mop :D |
| 01:08.39 | foxlit | because all problems are equivalent :) |
| 01:08.59 | Semlar | you want my python script for this questcache file vlad |
| 01:09.10 | Vlad| | yeah I'd like to take a peak :D |
| 01:09.12 | Vlad| | having troubles or? |
| 01:09.25 | foxlit | Archarodim: you know what that thread is missing? A suggested patch :) |
| 01:09.27 | Semlar | no i just haven't labeled the columns |
| 01:09.33 | Semlar | http://pastebin.com/V2SwQnXp |
| 01:09.41 | Vlad| | ah neato - you found the areaID in there? |
| 01:09.51 | Semlar | it's in there somewhere |
| 01:11.22 | Archarodim | foxlit: you're probably right but I really don't feel like diving in Blizzard UI code to find the cause of this :/ |
| 01:11.27 | Semlar | numbers contains pretty much all of the int fields |
| 01:11.39 | foxlit | Archarodim: I imagine nobody else does either. |
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| 01:14.10 | Semlar | (30, 2, -1, 0, 16, -263, 0, 0, 31, 4, 0, 6900, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 16392, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 609, 0, 0, 0, 0, 4, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0) |
| 01:14.15 | Semlar | there's an example of quest #30 |
| 01:14.39 | foxlit | Which is really the problem -- even if people know about the issue, is "a garbage taint log" an issue worth spending hours investigating, or can they just tell people (A) not to use addons (b) ignore the taint log? |
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| 01:20.03 | Semlar | alright, none of these numbers look like the npc id or the map or area id |
| 01:20.08 | Archarodim | the thing is it must have consequences on people's UI and break functionalities |
| 01:20.23 | Semlar | i know -1 is the quest level and 16 is the required level |
| 01:20.46 | Archarodim | the only solution for now is to stop adding add-ons settings to Blizzard's option panel... |
| 01:21.12 | Semlar | can you check that you're not in combat before doing that or does it still taint it |
| 01:22.28 | Archarodim | it always causes taint but the damage are more catastrophic if you do it while you are in combat |
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| 01:34.38 | Xuerian | Archarodim: The issue remains that blizzard can say "Disable your addons and it will work fine". Foxlit's advice is pretty sound here. A patch, or at least a "This is what the problem is" would go a longer way |
| 01:35.30 | Xuerian | Well, fine being relative with CRF, but eh |
| 01:36.28 | alestane | Another Visual Studio newb question for anyone who knows: How do I make files in one project use files in another project in the same solution? I created a dependency and a reference, but I can't seem to get it to load the header file from the other project. Been trying to google things but still sort of floundering around trying to figure out the right question to ask. |
| 01:38.05 | Shadowed | Pretty much all of the CRF issues have been people going "This is Blizzards fault" and then they're told to disable all their addons and they never respond |
| 01:38.50 | pompy | alestane: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/306234 no? |
| 01:38.52 | Shadowed | Haleth's report isn't entirely accurate anyway |
| 01:39.21 | pompy | hm 2003 |
| 01:39.28 | Xuerian | Neither "It's blizzard's fault" or the implied "It's the author's fault" are completely true, though. Blizzard provides a API, which should work properly when authors use it. Authors should be aware of how it works, and work around it if possible (Dropdowns, possible. InterfaceOptionsPanels, not possible without loosing blizzard-suggested functionality) |
| 01:39.40 | Shadowed | well no |
| 01:40.14 | Shadowed | Addons have never been a guaranteed thing. If it ever comes down to a question of Blizzards functionality or addons, odds are the addons are going to lose out |
| 01:40.25 | Shadowed | which is what the issue is with the interface options API last I looked |
| 01:40.28 | Shadowed | same with the dropdown API |
| 01:40.54 | Xuerian | They're not, and I'm not trying to say "Hey blizzard, this is your fault", but the InterfaceOptionsPanel is made by blizzard FOR addons, so that /should/ work |
| 01:41.10 | Shadowed | it did, then they added more functionality to their addons frame |
| 01:41.30 | Shadowed | and I assume they didn't want to dedicate the time to cleaning up the API to make sure it was clean and worked properly with taint |
| 01:41.34 | Xuerian | Right, and it's understandable, but by providing the functionality for authors they took the onus of it working properly onto themselves |
| 01:41.38 | Shadowed | well no |
| 01:41.40 | Xuerian | No |
| 01:41.44 | Shadowed | because again, addons have never been a guaranteed thing |
| 01:41.45 | Xuerian | I disagree |
| 01:41.48 | Shadowed | well, you're wrong so :P |
| 01:42.11 | Shadowed | Every API that Blizzard offers has never been guaranteed to work or work across every patch. Or even day to day |
| 01:42.40 | Xuerian | So? |
| 01:42.42 | Shadowed | Generally, Blizzard is nice enough to not arbitrarily break APIs, but at no point in time have they ever guaranteed something to work forever. It's pretty much always been a "Use at your own risk" |
| 01:43.07 | Xuerian | So? |
| 01:43.11 | Shadowed | If you want a SLA, WoW addons aren't the place to be working. |
| 01:43.16 | Shadowed | I'm going back to work though |
| 01:43.34 | Xuerian | Shadowed: Come back with a better argument =\ |
| 01:44.13 | Shadowed | What I told you are straight facts. You can disagree that it shouldn't be that way, but nothing I said is wrong or a lie. |
| 01:44.23 | Shadowed | There's nothing wrong with disagreeing that it's that way, but that's how it is |
| 01:44.28 | Shadowed | and how it always has been |
| 01:44.58 | alestane | pompy, thanks for finding that. Not sure if that's the problem I'm having or not, although it does appear that my solution is only linked to the existing project. |
| 01:46.34 | Xuerian | Your point "Any functionality beyond playing the game is not guaranteed" has been well made, Shadowed. I find it hard to believe you think that's the point though. It is not unreasonable for authors to have some expectation that Blizzard not break their consciously-and-specifically-for-authors-API. Guarantee? No. Reasonable expectation isn't the same. |
| 01:47.49 | bleeter | is getting awful sick and tired of mining nodes vanishing when he crosses subzones |
| 01:51.25 | Xuerian | Sigh. Whatever. It's not guaranteed, but we know it's broken, they know it's broken, it'd be freaking peachy if they fixed it. Realistically, it's not likely to happen until it breaks something in the stock UI or someone provides a drop-in patch that works and someone manages to get a actual Dev's attention with it. |
| 01:52.20 | foxlit | in the long term, they should kill a subset of the UIDropDownMenu functionality. |
| 01:53.11 | Xuerian | After having used it, I'm just going to say authors need to stop UIDropDownMenu completely. |
| 01:54.11 | foxlit | Meh, the API's fine, and reimplementing it is kind of a meh job. |
| 01:54.47 | foxlit | UIDropDownMenu_Refresh should probably go away, though. |
| 01:55.02 | bleeter | Fisker should probably go away too |
| 01:57.24 | Xuerian | foxlit: I'm sure it could be made to work, but it usually the hassle saved doesn't seem to outweigh the hassle earned. At this point it's irrelevant as bigger problems are happening anyway, though |
| 01:58.14 | Xuerian | It's certainly convenient, but just like staticpopups, it's almost always been easy to accidentally taint something |
| 02:03.56 | Archarodim | Atually, I just found out that this issue has already been reported in 2010: http://www.wowace.com/addons/ace3/tickets/137-ace3-taints-interface-options-in-combat (still an opened ticket) |
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| 02:05.06 | Archarodim | indeed if you choose 'Okay' instead of Cancel (or Escape) the taint doesn't occure... |
| 02:20.32 | bleeter | is it just me or is this a bit dodgy? http://tradeskillmaster.com/tsm_app |
| 02:22.41 | Xuerian | TSM in general seems a bit overdone, but that doesn't seem to be dodgy beyond the hints at them wanting to provide some kind of premium service which isn't explained yet |
| 02:22.47 | starlon | :/ |
| 02:23.28 | Shadowed | TSM, an excellent example of why I don't let people continue my addons |
| 02:23.51 | Shadowed | and shouldn't have made that exception |
| 02:24.15 | bleeter | I've not looked closely, but it'd seem that TSM App is an external application, sucking in data from TSM's own network or something and forcing the data into the addon's wtf foo... just seems wrong |
| 02:24.41 | Shadowed | It's not against the TOS, it's legitimate. |
| 02:24.55 | Xuerian | That part of it is a perfectly normal thing for auction addons |
| 02:25.07 | bleeter | wut |
| 02:25.17 | bleeter | .exe applications are normal for auction addons? |
| 02:25.20 | bleeter | since when? |
| 02:25.33 | Xuerian | What do you think any _WowheadDB or similar plugins are for auction addons? |
| 02:25.42 | Xuerian | They just inject it into the SV in game instead of out of game. |
| 02:26.19 | Xuerian | Well, for many database-employing addons, not specifically auction ones. |
| 02:26.23 | bleeter | yes, sorry I should've been more precise |
| 02:26.37 | bleeter | .exe applications injecting data into WoW's saved variables whilst the game is running are normal for auction addons? |
| 02:26.52 | Shadowed | It's not injecting it into the SV fyi, you can't do that |
| 02:26.54 | Xuerian | You can't do that. |
| 02:27.06 | Shadowed | You have a dummy file in the AddOn and you write the data to that |
| 02:27.10 | Shadowed | and then reload to get it in |
| 02:27.14 | Xuerian | You can update the SV while WoW isn't logged in, or do that ^ |
| 02:31.24 | bleeter | ah dummy file gotcha i am so stupid >< |
| 02:32.06 | Xuerian | Yeah, for clarification, I meant a plugin (another addon) was adding ("injecting") data into it's parent's SV, in game. |
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| 02:40.09 | p3lim | Hah, killed Garalon on LFR with only 1 wipe |
| 02:40.18 | kd3 | wow |
| 02:44.11 | Mr_Rabies | are you a wizard |
| 03:22.59 | bleeter | hehe oops https://twitter.com/BlizzardCS/status/266706031286030336 |
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| 08:30.33 | starlon | Has this thing seriously only dropped once? It's a white blacksmith pattern, like you buy off a vendor. http://thottbot.com/item=12830 |
| 08:30.52 | starlon | I just bought it on the AH anyways. |
| 08:31.07 | nevcairiel | you should switch to a better wow db site |
| 08:31.16 | starlon | Wowhead shows the same thing. |
| 08:31.43 | starlon | Shouldn't thottbot have more data? |
| 08:32.00 | starlon | Or I guess it's been scraped. |
| 08:32.05 | nevcairiel | they drop from a clickable world item in strat |
| 08:32.11 | nevcairiel | possibly their tracker addonsf ail at that |
| 08:32.17 | starlon | ah |
| 08:32.47 | starlon | thanks |
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| 08:45.02 | Vlad| | Semlar: the zoneID is at numbers[5] |
| 08:45.22 | Vlad| | if negative it points to questsort.dbc index and not zoneID in areatable.dbc) |
| 08:47.08 | Vlad| | isn't thottbot and wowhead the same by now? |
| 08:48.10 | Xuerian | (thottbot still exists?) |
| 08:49.50 | Xuerian | Nope, that's just a wowhead skin. http://thottbot.com/items=4.2?filter=sl=5 == http://wowhead.com/items=4.2?filter=sl=5 |
| 08:50.07 | Xuerian | Sneaky buggers =) |
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| 09:01.45 | Vlad| | yeah |
| 09:01.55 | Vlad| | I know, a while ago zam bought thottbot |
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| 09:17.45 | zenzio | "Linux is the Dwarf Fortress to Windows' Minecraft. The best way to learn is to suck." |
| 09:18.52 | Fisker | mad? |
| 09:21.44 | mitch0 | btw, what's with the "free" minecraft versions? are they all warez? |
| 09:22.00 | Mr_Rabies | there's a demo version |
| 09:22.19 | Mr_Rabies | you can play for a certain amount of time per launch or something, i forget |
| 09:22.32 | mitch0 | but there's this site here that offers free-to-play on their own servers and stuff |
| 09:23.22 | Mr_Rabies | it's like $20 to buy minecraft, if they're offering it for free it's most likely not legit |
| 09:23.23 | Xuerian | It's 10$ and notch is a awesome dudebro. Just buy the game. |
| 09:23.28 | Xuerian | Or 20$, whatever. |
| 09:24.13 | mitch0 | yeah, $20, it's no biggie, but my kid wants to play with his friends on this server I mentioned and I don't understand how it'd work... |
| 09:24.27 | mitch0 | I mean, they might have some locally modified version or something |
| 09:24.32 | mitch0 | which is probably illegit |
| 09:24.43 | Mr_Rabies | most likely |
| 09:25.13 | Mr_Rabies | you make a minecraft account for free, and that account can play for x amount per day or something |
| 09:25.31 | Vlad| | is it supposed to be offensive when someone called me a dickhead then said "vote obama" lol? |
| 09:25.33 | Mr_Rabies | but if you want full access to the whole game for as long as you want, you buy it |
| 09:25.47 | Mr_Rabies | what |
| 09:25.57 | Vlad| | shrug |
| 09:26.02 | mitch0 | Vlad|: the voting is over, isn't it? |
| 09:26.09 | Vlad| | tell it to the dude :P |
| 09:26.19 | Vlad| | just tagged "his" mob and he called me dickhead, and said "vote obama" lol |
| 09:26.26 | Vlad| | makes no sense |
| 09:26.35 | zenzio | did you just meet Donald Trump in-game? |
| 09:27.20 | Mr_Rabies | oh, it's actually $27 for minecraft now |
| 09:27.25 | Mr_Rabies | i got it back when it was $10 in alpha |
| 09:27.28 | Mr_Rabies | or $13 or something |
| 09:27.29 | Mr_Rabies | lol |
| 09:28.36 | Xuerian | Still worth it, really. |
| 09:28.45 | Xuerian | Played that game so many hours D: |
| 09:28.46 | Vlad| | probably |
| 09:28.48 | Mr_Rabies | If you log into Minecraft with a non-premium account, you will see an option to play the demo mode. This version of the game is 100 minutes long, or five in-game days. |
| 09:28.51 | Mr_Rabies | ^ |
| 09:29.02 | Mr_Rabies | single player only |
| 09:29.09 | Mr_Rabies | world deletes after that time i guess |
| 09:29.19 | mitch0 | Xuerian: yeah, but I'll have to convince the other parents to buy it, too... |
| 09:29.20 | Vlad| | you can use java arguments to launch the game SP mode without logging in |
| 09:29.29 | Vlad| | "lan mode" |
| 09:29.35 | Mr_Rabies | i mean yeah |
| 09:29.35 | Xuerian | mitch0: Well, buy the game, then tell him to get better friends |
| 09:29.37 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@cpc4-craw2-0-0-cust16.16-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 09:29.38 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 09:29.41 | Xuerian | loljk |
| 09:29.44 | mitch0 | ;) |
| 09:30.00 | Xuerian | Buy the game then figure out how to connect him to the other server. Clear conscience :P |
| 09:31.05 | mitch0 | I'm reading their forum now, I'm outta touch with current .hu computer slang, don't understand half the sentences there ;) |
| 09:31.24 | mitch0 | most of them are <14y probably |
| 09:32.51 | Mr_Rabies | do google translate for the phrases YOLO and #Swag (including the hashtag) in hungarian |
| 09:32.54 | Mr_Rabies | problem solved |
| 09:33.22 | Xuerian | snrks. |
| 09:34.05 | mitch0 | what's YOLO? |
| 09:34.28 | Mr_Rabies | the sound idiots make before their untimely, but altogether world-improving, deaths |
| 09:34.40 | mitch0 | ah |
| 09:34.58 | Mr_Rabies | http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=yolo |
| 09:35.23 | mitch0 | also, bukkit? |
| 09:36.08 | Mr_Rabies | bukkit's a way to run minecraft mods without having to deal with java's crap |
| 09:36.14 | Mr_Rabies | and making custom .jars |
| 09:36.22 | Adys | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyLqUf4cdwc |
| 09:36.27 | Adys | that was terrifyingly painful to watch |
| 09:36.41 | mitch0 | then don't link it here, mkay? |
| 09:36.43 | Mr_Rabies | next major minecraft patch will have a proper mod API, as the developers are working with the bukkit guys |
| 09:37.12 | mitch0 | ah, so bukkit is not one of the illegit things then? |
| 09:37.21 | Adys | no |
| 09:37.27 | Adys | the main bukkit dev is a mojang employee now |
| 09:37.30 | mitch0 | gah, I'm starting to hate this crap already :) |
| 09:37.40 | Stanzilla | Adys: all of them |
| 09:37.47 | Adys | its all now? nice |
| 09:37.56 | Stanzilla | the big 4(5?) yeah |
| 09:38.05 | Mr_Rabies | got to the second info and had to close it adys |
| 09:38.20 | Adys | Mr_Rabies: skip to about 4:30 and watch for 30 seconds |
| 09:38.21 | Adys | worth it |
| 09:38.21 | Stanzilla | points at Grum |
| 09:38.25 | Stanzilla | that bitch |
| 09:41.15 | Mr_Rabies | man |
| 09:41.24 | Mr_Rabies | it hurts my brain everytime i look at this http://i.imgur.com/il8wM.jpg |
| 09:41.58 | Mr_Rabies | it's so weird to see anything past its catshoulders |
| 09:42.08 | Grum | cries |
| 09:42.30 | Mr_Rabies | it never even really popped into my head that it was a real cat |
| 09:42.36 | Stanzilla | Grum: did you find the correct ram yet? |
| 09:42.41 | Grum | yup! |
| 09:42.43 | Grum | and ordered |
| 09:42.46 | Stanzilla | nice |
| 09:42.56 | Grum | whole 15eur/piece :P |
| 09:43.10 | Stanzilla | uhh |
| 09:46.04 | Mr_Rabies | okay i'm getting so tired i'm sending the equivalent of drunk texts to people now |
| 09:46.28 | Grum | mitch0: all things are 'illegal' |
| 09:46.37 | Grum | but its all in a 'condoned grey area' :D |
| 09:49.08 | Mr_Rabies | mitch0: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Minecraft_Wiki might help a bit if you're not sure about some stuff |
| 09:50.10 | Grum | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:50.45 | Grum | <Mr_Rabies> you make a minecraft account for free, and that account can play for x amount per day or something <-- no you pay once and that is it, no more costs ever |
| 09:50.59 | Mr_Rabies | i'm talking about the demo account |
| 09:50.59 | Grum | not to play the game as you once bought it |
| 09:51.12 | Mr_Rabies | the demo version |
| 09:51.19 | Grum | yes, you can play the demo in a 'time limited' environment and on 'the same world' |
| 09:51.24 | Xuerian | That's what he said |
| 09:51.26 | Xuerian | What are you on about |
| 09:51.52 | Mr_Rabies | <Mr_Rabies> but if you want full access to the whole game for as long as you want, you buy it |
| 09:51.54 | Mr_Rabies | is what i said next |
| 09:52.02 | Grum | /nod |
| 09:56.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Caribou| (~Caribou@98.120-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 10:28.13 | karl_w_w | when you pay for something by credit card why do you have to put the name? |
| 10:28.26 | Grum | verification? |
| 10:28.42 | karl_w_w | but they never seem to use it |
| 10:29.19 | karl_w_w | and even if the name you put in doesnt match the card exactly there's no issue |
| 10:35.21 | Fisker | punches Kalroth |
| 10:45.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Therzok (~Therzok@p16.eregie.pub.ro) |
| 10:49.47 | nebula169 | signing a receipt makes it a legally binding contract, the signature on the back of the card means nothing except that you accept the terms of the card issuer |
| 10:49.56 | nebula169 | i hate people that put see id on credit cards |
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| 12:04.52 | karl_w_w | <PROTECTED> |
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| 12:46.12 | Adys | http://www.gog.com/en/promo/telltale_weekend_promo_9_11_12 |
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| 12:46.35 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
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| 13:34.55 | alestane | gets Lopeppeppy birthday rum. |
| 13:35.48 | Lopeppeppy | Wooot! |
| 13:36.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (~quassel@124-171-121-214.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 13:36.04 | JoeSa | I've just written a WoW addon development tutorial for super super beginners - any idea where I should be post it so beginners can see it? http://www.dev-hq.net/extras/2--create-world-of-warcraft-addon |
| 13:36.44 | *** join/#wowuidev MidnightAge (~midnight@50-90-9-206.res.bhn.net) |
| 13:42.56 | Lopeppeppy | WoW UI/Addon forum, perhaps? |
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| 13:56.20 | Vlad| | anyone good on math? trying to draw a rubix cube in 2D and the canvas object is quite limited... so gotta resort to math lol |
| 14:10.30 | mitch0 | it's Rubik's cube you insensitive clod |
| 14:14.35 | zenzio | "As of January 2009, 350 million cubes had been sold worldwide[5][6] making it the world's top-selling puzzle game.[7][8] It is widely considered to be the world's best-selling toy.[9]" :-o |
| 14:16.23 | mitch0 | and the guy was a hungarian inventor, but he couldn't do shit here, so he did all his cool stuff in the usa instead... stupid country |
| 14:17.57 | Vlad| | why is it hard drawing a cube shape in 2d space? |
| 14:18.23 | Vlad| | the canvas allows me to skew and rotate but can't specify the axis that I wanna rotate around >.< |
| 14:20.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Ressy (~resa1983@unaffiliated/ressy) |
| 14:23.07 | Semlar | oh, i get it, the area id in the quest table is just a reference to what title it shows up under in the quest log |
| 14:25.58 | Vlad| | :P |
| 14:26.12 | Vlad| | but isn't that better than nothing? |
| 14:29.16 | zenzio | "Having seen the content of several hundred thousand emails between employees, you do not want to own the content. It is 90% non-sense, 10% work-related and 33% "I can't wait until 5 O'Clock!"?" |
| 14:31.26 | Semlar | it's actually probably better than what i was thinking, which involved the pois and stuff |
| 14:32.37 | Semlar | although i was hoping for some way to get information about the quest givers |
| 14:32.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Blazeflack (~Blaze@4304ds1-nsk.0.fullrate.dk) |
| 14:33.01 | Semlar | since the game lets you know their coordinates if you are actually on the quest |
| 14:33.22 | Vlad| | I think internally there is a poi yes |
| 14:33.31 | Vlad| | you didn't find it? |
| 14:33.37 | Vlad| | it should be >.< |
| 14:33.46 | Semlar | well i just got up |
| 14:34.24 | Semlar | did you see anything about a quest giver |
| 14:34.53 | Semlar | there were some things i couldn't decipher in the string block at the end |
| 14:35.18 | Semlar | mostly because some of it wasn't strings |
| 14:36.57 | Semlar | okay wowwiki has an actual mapid of the in-game map in addition to the sort id that it shows up under in the quest log |
| 14:38.16 | Semlar | http://www.wowwiki.com/Questcache.wdb |
| 14:38.32 | Semlar | even if the fields aren't right the information is probably still in there somewhere |
| 14:40.42 | Semlar | apparently it has ids for the npcs you have to kill for the quest so if it doesn't have the id of the quest giver i'd be surprised |
| 14:41.28 | Adys | Semlar: i wrote that |
| 14:41.31 | Adys | its not even sort of up to date |
| 14:41.43 | Semlar | i know it's outdated |
| 14:42.15 | Semlar | but it's still very helpful |
| 14:43.08 | Semlar | i don't get why they didn't just put all of the strings at the end of the data |
| 14:43.08 | Adys | Semlar: https://github.com/Adys/pywow/blob/master/wdbc/structures/main.py#L728 |
| 14:43.08 | Adys | more helpful |
| 14:43.16 | Adys | Semlar: because wdbs are a streamed format |
| 14:43.27 | Semlar | ah |
| 14:43.42 | Adys | they wanted minimal writes to the cache so its just appended to the end of it |
| 14:44.06 | Semlar | it's somewhat more of a pain in the ass to read this way |
| 14:44.46 | Adys | why? |
| 14:45.20 | Adys | allocate and read the reclen (second field in every row), then whenever you hit up a string just read until null |
| 14:46.07 | Semlar | right but i use struct to unpack the integers up to the string then have to start reading until the null character then go back to struct |
| 14:47.23 | Adys | Semlar: what language are you using? |
| 14:47.28 | Semlar | python |
| 14:47.33 | Adys | look into Construct |
| 14:47.39 | Semlar | i don't have much experience working with this so i probably could be doing it better |
| 14:47.39 | Adys | by MostAwesomeDude |
| 14:47.55 | Adys | its an "improved" struct with lots of tools for parsing binary data |
| 14:48.06 | Adys | it looked really good, wanted to switch my wdbc lib to it |
| 14:48.19 | Adys | !google construct github mostawesomedude |
| 14:48.19 | batbot | Adys: MostAwesomeDude/construct · GitHub <https://github.com/MostAwesomeDude/construct> |
| 14:48.47 | nilyaK | imagines a pie eating marathon. |
| 14:49.01 | Semlar | imagines a marathon-eating pie. |
| 14:49.20 | nilyaK | 26 miles of fruit flavored terror. |
| 14:54.56 | Vlad| | I hate 3D on 2D |
| 14:55.00 | Vlad| | quits Eclipse. |
| 14:55.32 | *** join/#wowuidev leizeQ (~leizeQ@212.89.228.197) |
| 14:55.46 | nilyaK | hates insomnia and dishes |
| 14:56.52 | leizeQ | hi, I have a question |
| 14:57.04 | Adys | ~asktoask |
| 14:57.04 | purl | Just ask your question and if someone's around, they'll be glad to help, if they can. |
| 14:57.06 | leizeQ | what is this feature called: a = b or c |
| 14:57.27 | leizeQ | so that a = b, or a = c based on existence of b |
| 14:57.38 | Semlar | ternary operator |
| 14:57.56 | alestane | Not quite an appropriate name. |
| 14:57.59 | Semlar | inline if |
| 14:58.07 | Adys | no |
| 14:58.14 | Semlar | :( |
| 14:58.22 | Adys | its similar but ternary is eg x if y else z |
| 14:58.24 | leizeQ | i am trying to find if it is possible to do it in PHP other than using ternary operator (?:) |
| 14:58.35 | alestane | I don't think it's been given a name in the Lua documentation, but a computer scientist might have a name for it. |
| 14:59.00 | Adys | it's a conditional assignment |
| 14:59.01 | alestane | The ternary is the feature it most languages that provides that function. |
| 14:59.09 | Semlar | short circuiting? |
| 14:59.21 | leizeQ | i like "conditional assignment" |
| 14:59.22 | alestane | Short sircuiting isn't the part he's referring to. |
| 14:59.47 | Adys | !google conditional assignment |
| 14:59.47 | batbot | Adys: Ternary operator - Wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%3F:> |
| 14:59.52 | Adys | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%3F:#Conditional_assignment |
| 15:00.02 | Semlar | wait why do you need to do it in php in a way other than how they provide |
| 15:00.17 | *** join/#wowuidev zoktar (~zoktar@unaffiliated/zoktar) |
| 15:00.31 | leizeQ | i have sty like: data = post[data] ? post[data] : default |
| 15:00.39 | alestane | It really boils down to the way Lua interprets the logical operators; it's not exactly a conditional assignment, either, although the whole pattern can be interpreted as an implementation of that. |
| 15:00.42 | Adys | i stopped asking why-questions if it's in the same sentence as php.. |
| 15:00.43 | leizeQ | i just wanted that it looked nicer |
| 15:01.01 | Vlad| | leizeQ: Adys is a php hater :P |
| 15:01.11 | leizeQ | sorry for that /: |
| 15:01.13 | alestane | I think there might be a format in some languages where you can say data = post[data]?: default |
| 15:01.52 | Vlad| | in php it's basically a inline statement |
| 15:01.53 | leizeQ | i came here, because i know i can do it in LUA, and just needed an hint what to put in google to search for it in PHP |
| 15:01.55 | Adys | data =: post[data] ? default |
| 15:01.58 | Adys | i believe some do that |
| 15:02.01 | Adys | i dont think php does |
| 15:02.09 | Semlar | in php you can do ?: in the newer versions |
| 15:02.20 | leizeQ | that is? 5.3/5.4 ? |
| 15:02.27 | Semlar | 5.3 |
| 15:02.28 | Vlad| | in lua you have "a = a or b" so if a is nil or false, the value is set to b (what ever it is) |
| 15:02.40 | leizeQ | thanks semlar |
| 15:02.44 | Adys | leizeQ: if you want to do it lua style you can just do x = y || z |
| 15:02.49 | Semlar | $c = $a ?: $b |
| 15:03.03 | leizeQ | Adys: that results in 1 |
| 15:03.05 | leizeQ | i tried |
| 15:03.14 | Adys | yeah assuming you're dealing with truth values |
| 15:03.32 | Semlar | or $c = $a ? $a : $b |
| 15:03.46 | Adys | Semlar's way is the proper one |
| 15:04.09 | leizeQ | i know this one, but wanted to know if there is the short one ($c = $a or $b) |
| 15:04.18 | leizeQ | thank you all |
| 15:04.22 | Semlar | yep |
| 15:04.29 | Adys | yes |
| 15:04.33 | Adys | [15:02:15] <Semlar> $c = $a ?: $b |
| 15:04.56 | Vlad| | just be careful, make sure the variable is initialized |
| 15:05.16 | Vlad| | $a = isset($a) ? $a : $b; |
| 15:05.26 | leizeQ | this looks like the best way |
| 15:05.29 | Adys | urgh |
| 15:05.46 | Adys | no comment. |
| 15:05.54 | nilyaK | what if a was initialized to false, but b wasn't initialized? |
| 15:06.09 | Adys | god please just stop |
| 15:06.14 | nilyaK | :P |
| 15:06.21 | leizeQ | i have $b as a static value I define |
| 15:06.22 | Vlad| | $a = isset($a) && $a ? $a : $b; |
| 15:06.28 | Semlar | i like where this is going |
| 15:06.34 | Adys | Vlad|: you're enjoying this arent you? |
| 15:06.35 | leizeQ | … thanks all, i have my answer |
| 15:06.39 | Vlad| | yes Adys |
| 15:06.40 | Vlad| | :D |
| 15:07.14 | Adys | hey |
| 15:07.15 | Adys | vlad |
| 15:07.22 | Adys | http://i.imgur.com/IMMzQ.jpg |
| 15:07.24 | Adys | OH HOOO |
| 15:07.27 | Adys | NO MORE DAILIES |
| 15:07.28 | leizeQ | ok, thanks a lot (once more) … have a nice day |
| 15:07.33 | Adys | bye leizeQ |
| 15:07.53 | Vlad| | :d gz |
| 15:08.06 | Vlad| | wait leizeQ |
| 15:08.11 | Adys | also Vlad|: http://i.imgur.com/aGhnn.jpg |
| 15:08.15 | Adys | soloing guild achievements is fun! |
| 15:08.38 | leizeQ | Vlad| yes? |
| 15:09.06 | Semlar | http://i.imgur.com/DzT4I.jpg |
| 15:09.14 | Stanzilla | captain standard ui Adys |
| 15:09.27 | Adys | nearly Stanzilla |
| 15:09.51 | Adys | blizzard's ui has really improved over the years |
| 15:09.55 | Adys | i miss bartender tho |
| 15:10.07 | Adys | but it was a pain in the fuck to do it on every char |
| 15:10.26 | Vlad| | Adys: grats on exalted with 70, I am myself only with 65 atm. :P I am myself like 8k to go with august, rest are exalted. |
| 15:10.30 | Stanzilla | global profile? |
| 15:10.41 | Vlad| | leizeQ: hang around on irc, it's fun, just ask stuff if you want :P |
| 15:10.41 | Adys | didnt exist back when i was using it |
| 15:10.43 | Adys | and im lazy. |
| 15:10.59 | Adys | leizeQ: he's in love with you |
| 15:10.59 | Semlar | i use the default ui |
| 15:11.17 | nilyaK | I onlyhave 64. only 2 I got for mop so far are forest hozen and horde pandas |
| 15:11.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Telshin (~textual@76.164.170.2) |
| 15:11.21 | leizeQ | ((: |
| 15:11.25 | nilyaK | working on anglers/tillers now |
| 15:11.38 | Stanzilla | 69 :( |
| 15:11.41 | Adys | my only non-exalted rep is the hyjal one |
| 15:11.43 | Stanzilla | does nat pagle count as faction for that? |
| 15:11.47 | Adys | it doesnt |
| 15:11.47 | leizeQ | Vlad| i'll come again … don't worry (: |
| 15:11.49 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower (~textual@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 15:11.49 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ |
| 15:11.50 | Stanzilla | fml |
| 15:11.57 | Adys | the fuck do you mean |
| 15:12.08 | Adys | nat pagle is the most hardcore faction out there |
| 15:12.09 | Stanzilla | what |
| 15:12.18 | Adys | ravenholdt is easier |
| 15:12.19 | Stanzilla | yeah man! |
| 15:12.21 | Stanzilla | should count! |
| 15:12.37 | nilyaK | as a rogue: ravenholdt is boring. |
| 15:12.44 | Adys | UBRS |
| 15:12.45 | Vlad| | actually him and the tillers are factions, but not counted as factions, if you know what I mean :P |
| 15:12.56 | Vlad| | it is in the faction list and all :P |
| 15:13.18 | Adys | anything thats not "Exalted" is not an exalted |
| 15:13.23 | Stanzilla | guess I won't get that achievement then |
| 15:13.24 | Adys | i thought it was obvious |
| 15:13.27 | Stanzilla | because it is removed with 5.1 |
| 15:13.30 | Adys | Stanzilla: what are you missing? |
| 15:13.36 | Stanzilla | pvp factions |
| 15:13.37 | Adys | itswhat |
| 15:13.43 | Adys | huh what |
| 15:13.48 | Stanzilla | yeah it gets replaced with a 65 factions one |
| 15:13.55 | Vlad| | what is being removed in 5.1? |
| 15:13.56 | Adys | son of a bitch |
| 15:14.00 | Adys | they're removing pvp factions? |
| 15:14.03 | Vlad| | wha... |
| 15:14.08 | Vlad| | why? |
| 15:14.09 | Stanzilla | don't act dumb :D |
| 15:14.13 | Vlad| | xD |
| 15:14.20 | Stanzilla | 70 exalted factions will be turned into 65 |
| 15:14.23 | nilyaK | no more conqueror? |
| 15:14.24 | Vlad| | I have not read any 5.1 changes regarding factions and such |
| 15:14.25 | Stanzilla | THE ACHIEVEMENT |
| 15:14.29 | Stanzilla | want me to paint a picture? |
| 15:14.29 | Adys | ah. |
| 15:14.36 | Adys | why would they do that |
| 15:14.46 | Adys | theres 71 possible exalted factions in the game |
| 15:14.50 | Adys | its more than enough. |
| 15:14.52 | Vlad| | btw Adys why don't you try http://wow.curseforge.com/addons/miniloot/ ? :D you would do me great honor. |
| 15:15.01 | Adys | what does it do? |
| 15:15.12 | Vlad| | I took a look at your rep and loot "spam" in chat |
| 15:15.23 | Vlad| | and figured maybe you'd like miniloot to help you condense it a bit :P |
| 15:15.36 | Stanzilla | lol Vlad| |
| 15:15.46 | Vlad| | Stanzilla he linked http://i.imgur.com/aGhnn.jpg earlier :D |
| 15:15.51 | nilyaK | I'd like a flying fish thing for this quest |
| 15:15.57 | Stanzilla | I know |
| 15:16.04 | Vlad| | lots of loot messages just taking space :( |
| 15:16.12 | Adys | ehh |
| 15:16.14 | Adys | no thanks |
| 15:16.18 | Stanzilla | why do you prefix the msg with "Database" |
| 15:16.20 | Stanzilla | looks stoooopid |
| 15:16.25 | Stanzilla | oh wait |
| 15:16.28 | Stanzilla | thats your toon name |
| 15:16.29 | Stanzilla | >.< |
| 15:16.31 | Vlad| | :P |
| 15:16.39 | Adys | lol Stanzilla i thought the same |
| 15:16.56 | Stanzilla | Adys: he has the weirdest toon names, mysql, rootkit, addonlord, database etc |
| 15:17.05 | Vlad| | addonlord is my addon coding char |
| 15:17.08 | Vlad| | I don't play it :D |
| 15:17.10 | Stanzilla | say what |
| 15:17.27 | Vlad| | I just use it on another realm for easy "disable all addons" then enable what I am debugging. |
| 15:17.39 | Adys | My next alt will be rmdashrf |
| 15:18.11 | Vlad| | what is rf dash? |
| 15:18.59 | alestane | ''rm -rf" is a shell command to remove a directory and its contents forcibly and recursively. |
| 15:19.02 | Stanzilla | rm -rf |
| 15:19.18 | Vlad| | ah |
| 15:19.31 | nilyaK | he just removed the spacecows first |
| 15:19.37 | Vlad| | that is a fun name |
| 15:19.39 | alestane | You can't quite fit 'slash' at the end, though. |
| 15:19.51 | Adys | why do you assume i want to rm -rf / |
| 15:19.53 | Adys | i mean |
| 15:19.58 | Adys | why the hell would you assume that |
| 15:20.08 | Adys | its the most stupidly retarded use of the damn command |
| 15:20.16 | Adys | and you automatically assume i want that. |
| 15:20.32 | Vlad| | I appologize on Adys behalf, he doesn't know how to socially behave. |
| 15:20.44 | Adys | you don't know how to spell apologize |
| 15:20.48 | Stanzilla | imagine how much fun it would be if blizzard didn't escape toon names and you could name them DROP blabla |
| 15:20.50 | alestane | It's the most globally applicable possibility. |
| 15:21.00 | Vlad| | typo:p |
| 15:21.53 | Lopeppeppy | mmmm. forcible recursion! |
| 15:23.11 | Vlad| | oh I am excited, going to a job interview this Tuesday :D |
| 15:23.52 | Vlad| | I hope it goes well, even got a new sweater :3 |
| 15:24.18 | Vlad| | btw, I got a genious idea |
| 15:24.34 | Vlad| | if you got a SSD disk that is only 128GB but want to store more on it than you can fit |
| 15:24.51 | karl_w_w | replace it with a bigger one |
| 15:24.56 | Vlad| | simply make a symbolic link file on your SSD and place the folder with all the actual files on your regular drive! |
| 15:24.57 | Semlar | turn it over and use the other side |
| 15:25.13 | karl_w_w | flawless plan Vlad| |
| 15:25.44 | Semlar | not really storing the files on there though, are you |
| 15:26.39 | Vlad| | karl_w_w already said my plan was flawless. |
| 15:29.40 | Vlad| | marijuana got legalized somewhere in the uS? |
| 15:30.16 | End_ | sort of |
| 15:31.25 | End_ | two states have legalized it in small amounts, but I believe federal law still prohibits it |
| 15:31.39 | Semlar | colorado |
| 15:31.53 | End_ | washington too |
| 15:32.07 | Kalroth | for medicinal use only, no? |
| 15:32.13 | End_ | no, for recreational |
| 15:32.19 | Kalroth | oh sweet |
| 15:32.32 | Semlar | quite recently |
| 15:34.34 | Vlad| | the daily show map over D/R - is it accurate at all or? because it seems most of US are republicans lol |
| 15:35.02 | End_ | most of the US is not super populated |
| 15:35.28 | nevcairiel | Vlad|: the east and west cost have way more people then the center areas |
| 15:35.29 | End_ | a huge portion of americans live on or near the coast |
| 15:35.36 | Vlad| | ah |
| 15:36.23 | Vlad| | http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-november-8-2012/post-democalyptic-world---marijuana-legalization :P |
| 15:37.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Unkle (~Unkle@50-0-113-124.dedicated.static.sonic.net) |
| 15:38.50 | Unkle | brrrr.... |
| 15:40.30 | *** join/#wowuidev ZorbaBeta (tocohl@maximilian.pavlovian.net) |
| 15:43.44 | Corrodias | the more democratic-leaning folks are apparently the ones who enjoy being around other people more than the republican-leaning folks do, on average. weirdos! |
| 15:45.36 | Maldivia | Have no idea what it says - but can't say I didn't laugh a bit: http://i.imgur.com/eeUa6.jpg |
| 15:47.51 | alestane | I take it Northern Cali isn't living up to its "eternally 72F" reputation, Unkle? |
| 15:48.09 | Vlad| | I am curious, are there any sites showing graphs of differeint presidents and the debth rates (going down or up) - I am wondering let's say, how the debt went with obama in office than comparing to bush and such. |
| 15:48.58 | alestane | There certainly are graphs, but every time I see one, someone is criticizing it for not showing the whole picture. |
| 15:49.48 | Vlad| | said graph would be a lot of work to make proper :P |
| 15:49.55 | Semlar | well considering most of our debt is from the war that bush started i don't see how it could |
| 15:50.34 | Vlad| | can't only look at the "total debt" numbers for each year and say if it's going down then said president did good and such, that's silly :P |
| 15:51.58 | Vlad| | btw, can a country get out of debt? :P |
| 15:52.07 | Semlar | not this one |
| 15:52.14 | Vlad| | how do you do that without some other country going more in debt |
| 15:52.26 | Vlad| | I wonder if it's possible to balance things out the way economy works :P |
| 15:52.42 | Semlar | take in more money than you're spending |
| 15:53.01 | Vlad| | if I take a loan for a house, it burns down and I die -how is the value regenerated? lol |
| 15:53.16 | Vlad| | since all it did was add more on the debt :P |
| 15:53.23 | Semlar | no |
| 15:53.31 | Semlar | that money went somewhere |
| 15:53.40 | Vlad| | ok, let me rephrase |
| 15:54.13 | Semlar | how about you take a bunch of money and put it in a pile and burn it |
| 15:54.16 | Vlad| | different scenario, you invest a lot of money in stock and all the value is lost :P |
| 15:55.48 | alestane | Where does it go? |
| 15:55.51 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@unaffiliated/stolenlegacy) |
| 15:56.03 | alestane | Stocks have two values. |
| 15:56.15 | alestane | One is the "book value" of the equity you own. |
| 15:57.01 | Semlar | i'm not sure i even understand the question |
| 15:57.39 | alestane | This is the slice of the company's total assets or debts that corresponds to the portion of the company represented by your portion of total share ownership. |
| 15:58.04 | Vlad| | I guess the burning a pile of money is better, no loopholes in the setting :P |
| 15:58.16 | Vlad| | so yeah, what happens if I take out money that is physically destroyed? :P |
| 15:58.17 | alestane | The other is "market value", what you can reasonably expect someone else to pay you for giving them one of your shares. |
| 15:58.49 | alestane | Market value is supposedly related to some extent to book value, but it's a lot more volatile. |
| 15:59.10 | alestane | What happens to what if you physically destroy money? |
| 15:59.20 | alestane | Firstly, you're guilty of defacing currency. |
| 15:59.37 | Semlar | the value of money should theoretically go up |
| 15:59.49 | Semlar | i'm not sure if it actually does though |
| 16:00.27 | Semlar | i mean that's how the fed works to control inflation |
| 16:01.06 | Semlar | not literally burning money but taking it out of circulation |
| 16:01.22 | Vlad| | what about nature catastrophes |
| 16:01.29 | Vlad| | gotta rebuild a lot of houses |
| 16:02.04 | Semlar | what's the question though |
| 16:02.16 | Vlad| | as long the money circulates in the country, fine. |
| 16:02.31 | Vlad| | but what about the CEO share that he spends to buy some expensive European car or island in Asia? :P |
| 16:02.46 | Vlad| | or companies that avoid taxes by having off shore HQs |
| 16:02.52 | Vlad| | lots of factors affecting the economy in bad ways |
| 16:03.09 | Semlar | are you asking how the government continues to pay for things despite being trillions of dollars in debt |
| 16:03.27 | Semlar | it's probably best not to look at it to closely |
| 16:03.35 | Vlad| | I am no expert but what I gathered is they can make up money in another form, bonds, e.g. and use that :P |
| 16:03.47 | Vlad| | not asking about details, just food for thought :P |
| 16:03.59 | Vlad| | imo economy is so complex no wonder you can't manage it properly ;D |
| 16:04.09 | alestane | Vlad|, when people spend dollars on foreign-produced goods, the dollars generally end up in the hands of banks until foreign countries need it to buy stuff from American suppliers. |
| 16:05.46 | Vlad| | isn't there some sort of "memoryleak" somewhere? I mean, if people spend more than they own, why are there so many average or poor people in US? isn't there more than it was before when the debt was less? |
| 16:06.08 | Vlad| | I am curious who the real debt contributor is :P |
| 16:06.13 | Vlad| | at least for US |
| 16:08.05 | Semlar | you want to know why people have varying degrees of wealth |
| 16:08.30 | Vlad| | I mean, people say the debt goes up because people spend more than they own. |
| 16:08.40 | Vlad| | But why isn't this showing? lol |
| 16:08.42 | alestane | That's generally how debt works, yes. |
| 16:08.42 | Semlar | that's not why the debt goes up |
| 16:08.54 | Vlad| | dum dum dum |
| 16:08.59 | Vlad| | alestane versus Semlar |
| 16:09.00 | Vlad| | :P |
| 16:09.27 | Semlar | the national debt is so high because we just spent ten years in a war |
| 16:09.53 | TC-work | that's not a war |
| 16:09.55 | alestane | In the case of national debt, Congress controls federal spending through legislation, and these expenses are covered from the treasury, or by selling bonds. |
| 16:10.02 | Vlad| | so the public owe money to the government that they didn't want to owe? minus those that actually wanted war, but those are probably a minority :P |
| 16:10.13 | Semlar | i don't owe the government jack |
| 16:10.15 | alestane | Bonds are the best-known form of government debt. |
| 16:10.43 | Vlad| | why is it called public debt? :D |
| 16:10.46 | alestane | They are held by individuals or organizations and the government agrees to pay them back at a later date, plus interest. |
| 16:10.50 | TC-work | and if other countries called it in we would be screwed. |
| 16:11.00 | TC-work | hell, just china could screw us |
| 16:11.08 | alestane | It's worth noting that a lot of nation debt is not actually held by other countries. |
| 16:11.20 | alestane | China owns about 8% of our public debt at the moment. |
| 16:11.22 | Vlad| | I thought public debt = government = represents the people, i.e. the peoples debt. |
| 16:11.35 | alestane | Much of the debt is held by private institutions like banks. |
| 16:11.46 | TC-work | which is one hell of a lot more money than we have |
| 16:11.52 | alestane | The debt is owed by the treasury. |
| 16:12.40 | alestane | The treasury does represent money which is held in common by the state on behalf of the people at large for the common good, at least in theory. |
| 16:12.59 | TC-work | china currently has 1trillion dollars of our debt |
| 16:13.06 | TC-work | japan as well |
| 16:13.16 | alestane | But China (or anyone else) would not easily be able to go door to door and tell every citizen "You owe us $2000, pay up now." |
| 16:14.04 | Vlad| | sorry to track off, but I've always been curious about interests. I wonder, if we got 100g and I lend you alestane 50g and say you must pay me with interests, how can you get more money than there is in the pot? :P |
| 16:14.15 | Vlad| | sounds quite unrealistic to me |
| 16:14.26 | TC-work | because banks invest the money they are holding |
| 16:14.28 | TC-work | of yours |
| 16:15.11 | alestane | The important thing to remember is that money is just a marker system. |
| 16:15.25 | alestane | None of these transactions can actually create new value |
| 16:15.26 | alestane | Only people working to produce goods or services can do that. |
| 16:17.09 | Vlad| | I am more of a simpleton, to me when you look at the larger picture of how economy works, it's too complicated and I start to question if the people running this even know how the future will be, financially, with so much "chaos" :P |
| 16:17.11 | alestane | In your example, Vlad|, if you and TC-work and Semlar each have 50g, and that's all the money there is, and I need to borrow 50g from you in exchange for a promise to repay you 55g, then the only way I'll be able to repay you is by selling something that's not money to one of them in order to get the other 5g. |
| 16:17.34 | Semlar | right, you have to understand what money is |
| 16:17.45 | alestane | Economies are definitely chaotic aggregate systems. |
| 16:18.18 | Semlar | we use money to represent the value of a good or service |
| 16:18.39 | Semlar | so we don't have to trade in fishes and tasks |
| 16:18.42 | Unkle | Right. Money simply represents value, it isn't value. |
| 16:18.48 | alestane | Money basically represents the right to future compensation. It is itself a form of credit. |
| 16:19.44 | Vlad| | alestane you seem rather well informed about these things, how is your take on the Rothschild family? :P |
| 16:20.12 | alestane | I'd have to look up the name and remember exactly who they are. |
| 16:21.12 | Vlad| | :D |
| 16:21.14 | Unkle | alestane they own a lot of banks |
| 16:22.10 | Semlar | adys are you around |
| 16:22.20 | Adys | Not as much as your mom is |
| 16:22.23 | Adys | cause she so fat. |
| 16:22.27 | alestane | One of the great paradoxes of banking. You lend money, you get more money back, there isn't much to do with that extra money except lend it too. |
| 16:22.41 | Semlar | can you give me an example of how to use this pywow |
| 16:22.56 | Unkle | Adys Yo Momma jokes are best left to idiomatic speakers of "English" |
| 16:22.58 | Adys | import wdbc; wdbc.fopen("creaturecache.wdb") |
| 16:23.00 | Semlar | to import it and load a wdb file |
| 16:23.06 | Semlar | okay |
| 16:23.10 | TC-work | Adys: i dont think the second part was really needed. |
| 16:23.29 | TC-work | kinda implied. |
| 16:23.29 | Adys | you're right |
| 16:23.29 | Adys | we all know she fat. |
| 16:23.58 | Adys | Semlar: f = wdbc.fopen("..."), and then you can do things like f[1234] |
| 16:24.04 | Adys | and f[1234].name |
| 16:24.24 | Adys | im dying to rewrite it though, some of the code is quite poor |
| 16:24.33 | Adys | but i have no use for the damn thing |
| 16:25.24 | Vlad| | be careful when Adys gives you code, he runs linux :P |
| 16:25.31 | Vlad| | if you gotta compile stuff forget it ^^ |
| 16:25.39 | Vlad| | other than that it's awesome ;) |
| 16:29.32 | Adys | Semlar: i dont know how up to date the structures are btw |
| 16:29.37 | Adys | creaturecache should be |
| 16:30.22 | Semlar | i'm just having issues importing it |
| 16:30.45 | Semlar | says module object has no attribute fopen |
| 16:30.46 | Adys | um |
| 16:30.46 | Adys | try |
| 16:30.47 | Adys | from wdbc.utils import fopen maybe |
| 16:30.49 | Adys | its been a while |
| 16:32.00 | Semlar | well it's in a folder and i'm trying to do import pywow.wdbc |
| 16:32.31 | Semlar | i'm guessing that's not right |
| 16:34.44 | Semlar | although it does the same thing if i put my script inside the pywow directory |
| 16:36.21 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:36.25 | Semlar | AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'fopen' |
| 16:36.44 | Semlar | tried import wdbc, from wdbc import fopen, from wdbc import * |
| 16:37.54 | Semlar | although inside init you have from .utils import fopen as open, get, new |
| 16:37.57 | Semlar | so i'm guessing it should be wdbc.open |
| 16:39.22 | Semlar | ImportError: No module named structures |
| 16:39.41 | Semlar | maybe i should just see if i can get construct working |
| 16:43.46 | Vlad| | :'< |
| 16:43.52 | Fisker | kicks Adys |
| 16:43.53 | Semlar | i'm probably doing something wrong |
| 16:43.53 | TC-work | fisker |
| 16:43.53 | Fisker | why? |
| 16:43.54 | TC-work | fisker |
| 16:44.06 | Fisker | why are you doing this? |
| 16:44.30 | Semlar | that's a very philosophical question are you sure you want to get into that |
| 16:45.00 | TC-work | Fisker Fisker |
| 16:45.01 | Fisker | screams in pain |
| 16:47.09 | *** join/#wowuidev dagmar (~dagmar@unaffiliated/dagmar) |
| 16:47.19 | Fisker | you don't get to abort dagmar |
| 16:47.32 | Adys | Semlar: im sorry, i never bothered writing a setup.py for it |
| 16:47.34 | Adys | i just symlink it into site-packages |
| 16:47.34 | Semlar | oh |
| 16:47.39 | Semlar | yeah i don't really know that much about how packages work |
| 16:47.41 | Adys | well for most its just ./setup.py install |
| 16:47.51 | Semlar | right, so i can just make a link inside of site-packages to the pywow folder |
| 16:48.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (~Kalroth@d40aa5af.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 16:48.21 | Adys | yea |
| 16:50.55 | Semlar | grr i guess i have to elevate my command prompt |
| 16:52.00 | Semlar | is there anything else i have to do |
| 16:52.09 | Semlar | i'm still getting the same error |
| 16:53.37 | Semlar | http://pastebin.com/5sLfmVHg |
| 16:54.10 | Semlar | oh i think it's looking in the wrong folder |
| 16:54.11 | Adys | do import wdbc; print(wdbc) |
| 16:54.11 | Adys | what does it say? |
| 16:54.41 | Adys | Oh shit, circular import |
| 16:54.43 | Semlar | it's moving up to the folder i have my script in to look for the wdbc folder instead of pywow |
| 16:54.47 | Adys | ugh how did this ever work |
| 16:54.56 | Adys | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:54.56 | Adys | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:54.59 | Adys | see that? |
| 16:55.07 | Semlar | yeah |
| 16:56.25 | TC-work | Adys: do you have anything written in it that can tell you how you use to do it? |
| 16:56.26 | Adys | yeah ok |
| 16:56.26 | TC-work | with* |
| 16:56.27 | Adys | github.com/adys/python-structures |
| 16:56.27 | Adys | install that |
| 16:56.27 | Adys | clone it and run setup.py install |
| 16:56.27 | Semlar | >_> |
| 16:56.47 | Adys | yeah TC-work, https://github.com/Adys/wdbc-gui |
| 16:56.49 | Adys | but its bad |
| 16:57.17 | Semlar | https://github.com/Adys/python-structures |
| 16:57.59 | Semlar | does construct have any api documentation |
| 16:58.21 | Semlar | it looked like it had something that you had to install another script for to generate it |
| 16:58.24 | Adys | i dont know, i never actually used it |
| 16:58.27 | Vlad| | fyi GetGossipActiveQuests has a new field, so each quest have 5 cols and not 4 like pre-MoP |
| 16:58.29 | Adys | but it looked really good |
| 16:58.31 | Adys | theres some stuff on github |
| 16:58.31 | Vlad| | just saying :3 if you got some gossip frame addon |
| 16:58.42 | Adys | Vlad|: update wowprogramming.com :P |
| 16:58.51 | Vlad| | it is :3 |
| 17:02.34 | *** join/#wowuidev g0urra (~g0urra@unaffiliated/gourra) |
| 17:02.58 | Semlar | so Grail looks like a pretty good prospect |
| 17:11.09 | Semlar | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info20804-Grail.html |
| 17:12.17 | Semlar | i'm goin a little crazy because the OnLeave event doesn't fire if you move your mouse too fast |
| 17:13.43 | Semlar | i'll probably just tie it into the onupdate script |
| 17:30.12 | Mr_Rabies | 8 wipes on lfr garalon :| |
| 17:30.37 | Fisker | lol |
| 17:31.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (~Daniel@c-76-28-131-143.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 17:34.59 | Mr_Rabies | i blame fisker |
| 17:37.28 | Arrowmaster | just watched the new battlestar webisode, awesome |
| 17:46.07 | Shirik | the what? |
| 17:46.11 | Shirik | how do I find this immediately |
| 17:48.28 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 17:53.51 | Mr_Rabies | 9 wipes |
| 17:53.52 | Mr_Rabies | :| |
| 17:56.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@pool010.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 17:56.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 18:01.05 | Fisker | man Shirik |
| 18:01.10 | Fisker | this pudding was spiked |
| 18:07.19 | TC-work | Shirik: I have a mk. 3 now. What legit pictures should I take first? |
| 18:12.16 | Mr_Rabies | finally got it |
| 18:12.21 | Mr_Rabies | attempt #12 was the charm |
| 18:22.33 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@cpc4-craw2-0-0-cust16.16-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 18:22.34 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 18:22.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~RyanNL@adsl-184-41-122-225.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 18:22.49 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 18:33.58 | *** join/#wowuidev rtharper (~tomh@c83-250-218-181.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 18:33.59 | *** join/#wowuidev rtharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 18:58.33 | *** join/#wowuidev TC-work (palewitz@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:feae:2e8b) |
| 19:12.14 | TC-work | ~ping |
| 19:12.14 | purl | ~pong |
| 19:25.07 | jnwhiteh | Adys: with what? |
| 19:25.24 | Adys | jnwhiteh: a function signature description |
| 19:25.25 | Adys | but nvm |
| 19:25.35 | jnwhiteh | k =) |
| 19:34.50 | Vlad| | !lua function with()end print(signature) |
| 19:34.50 | batbot | Vlad|: nil |
| 19:35.35 | Vlad| | I am strange, when I know I have stuff to do tomorrow, I get sleepy really early, been sleepy since 1900:/ |
| 19:42.45 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy1 (~Mike@c-68-38-56-4.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 19:50.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaylin (~Kaylin@c-67-201-226-158.reshall.wwu.edu) |
| 19:52.13 | karl_w_w | you're at least 112 years old Vlad|? I'd be sleepy too :P |
| 19:55.51 | Arrowmaster | http://imgur.com/UhWM4 |
| 19:55.52 | Arrowmaster | ....... |
| 19:56.48 | Arrowmaster | yes its fake |
| 19:57.05 | karl_w_w | yes but are we on track for http://shanecleveland.com/countdowntohoverboards.html ? |
| 20:06.42 | mikma | arrowmaster: yeah cause it was jaws ^^ |
| 20:07.00 | Arrowmaster | jaws 19 |
| 20:09.29 | Unkle | 15 minutes on hold, and it's not for tech support. |
| 20:11.18 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@188.177.103.242) |
| 20:14.18 | Torhal|work | Cairenn|afk: ping |
| 20:14.26 | Unkle | 19 minutes on hold, the phone system rolled over to a message taker who promises me someone will call me back. |
| 20:15.44 | Cairenn|afk | Torhal|work: pong |
| 20:16.11 | Torhal|work | Cairenn|afk: I was on a WoWHead page before lunch. When I came back, I was sitting at this: http://survey.suitesmart.com/survey.sp?PAG=H;GID=19202;SID=108178;CRE=50342693;PLA=86871321;ADI=262589911;REF=mb.zam.com/mb/p?c=832&size=22;DOM=us-ads.openx.net;PAT=/w/1.0/afr;SEA=auid=140501&cb=%%CACHEBUSTER%% |
| 20:16.19 | Torhal|work | Web of Trust says this is a bad site. |
| 20:16.33 | Cairenn|afk | Okay, I'll pass it along |
| 20:16.36 | Torhal|work | Danke :) |
| 20:17.25 | nevcairiel | should just charge people instead of bothering with crappy ad networks |
| 20:18.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Robsato (~Robsato@541AE7CC.cm-5-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) |
| 20:18.37 | Cairenn|afk | Torhal do you remember what page you had been on? |
| 20:19.52 | Cairenn|afk | pokes Torhal|work |
| 20:20.12 | Torhal|work | Cairenn|afk: Oh, sorry. It was an NPC page. Ella. |
| 20:20.45 | Torhal|work | Cairenn|afk: http://www.wowhead.com/npc=58647/ella |
| 20:21.36 | Cairenn|afk | thanks Torhal |
| 20:22.04 | Torhal|work | np :) |
| 20:28.36 | *** join/#wowuidev chrippa (~chrippa@tanuki.se) |
| 20:46.43 | Fisker | old Arrowmaster |
| 20:53.09 | TC-work | old Fisker |
| 20:55.11 | Fisker | http://i.imgur.com/htywC.jpg <-hah |
| 20:55.35 | Kaylin | cat carrier? |
| 20:55.38 | Kaylin | is that even rare? |
| 20:56.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Dark_Elf (~Dark_Elf@h75-100-159-202.wdrnin.broadband.dynamic.tds.net) |
| 20:56.37 | kd3 | http://www.wowpedia.org/Cat_Carrier_(Bombay) |
| 20:56.41 | Kaylin | no, unlimited quantity on alliance it seems |
| 20:56.45 | kd3 | no. you can buy it for 40s from the crazy cat lady |
| 20:56.59 | Kaylin | tell me there are no bids on that and it started at 500k |
| 20:57.07 | kd3 | it started at 10k |
| 20:57.10 | kd3 | people are just idiots |
| 20:57.38 | Kaylin | This makes me sad for the state of PvP |
| 20:58.19 | znf | hey, wanna see a bad UI? |
| 20:58.25 | Kaylin | is it mine? |
| 20:58.30 | znf | doubt it |
| 20:58.33 | znf | https://sites.google.com/site/sacreddutyfiles/files/theck_UI_nov2012.jpg |
| 20:58.50 | Kaylin | I have no idea what's going on |
| 20:58.53 | Kaylin | uses the default UI. |
| 20:59.05 | Kaylin | is also a bad rogue. |
| 20:59.57 | znf | Kaylin, hint: they could be related |
| 21:00.26 | Semlar | nah, i use the default ui and i'm awesome |
| 21:00.48 | TC-work | Even ikf you do say so yourself |
| 21:00.51 | TC-work | if* |
| 21:01.02 | znf | Semlar, that's what YOU think :P |
| 21:01.03 | TC-work | bah, new keyboard is messing me up more than normal |
| 21:02.11 | Kaylin | they're not just related, they're correlated, but what what do I know? |
| 21:03.32 | Gnarfoz | znf: that's what I thought when I saw the post, lol |
| 21:04.16 | znf | Gnarfoz, even told him to stop giving advice on his blog :D |
| 21:05.00 | Unkle | You know you're terrible at being a rogue? |
| 21:05.42 | Kaylin | yes, I mostly stick to fishing, farming, and being dead with 5000ms latency in areas I have no idea how I got to. |
| 21:05.51 | Kaylin | by farming I mean tillers quests |
| 21:06.12 | Unkle | It's ok. I'm a terrible monk. |
| 21:06.18 | Kaylin | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:06.29 | Kaylin | is that bc you're a paladin? |
| 21:07.14 | Unkle | I've played everything. My current raiding toon is a monk, but instead of tanking as a Brewmaster (which was all I focused on) I'm DPSing as a Windwalker... and I'm terrible. |
| 21:11.41 | Unkle | In other news: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2012/nov/09/microsoft-surface-cover-flaw |
| 21:12.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Neffi (~Neffi@pool-98-116-218-107.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 21:12.54 | znf | so you're one of those guys who change class every month? :P |
| 21:12.58 | znf | "hey guys, this is my main now" |
| 21:13.49 | Unkle | Negative. |
| 21:14.37 | Unkle | We were short tanks in our raiding line up. We had no monks. I decided to fill two gaps with one character. And then we got a glut of tanks. |
| 21:25.02 | foxlit | heh, netflix search |
| 21:25.12 | foxlit | type partial name, select full name from dropdown, "no matches found" |
| 21:26.11 | Fisker | don't be mad foxlit |
| 21:28.06 | znf | removes mad from Fisker |
| 21:30.21 | jnwhiteh | znf always makes me think of znc |
| 21:30.34 | znf | that's because I use znc |
| 21:32.08 | *** join/#wowuidev ShaunDreclin (~ShaunDrec@bas1-toronto03-3096535117.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 21:35.12 | TC-work | Fisker: http://store.steampowered.com/app/221020/ does that scream majesty to you? |
| 21:35.57 | znf | he's pooping |
| 21:37.05 | TC-work | Not surprised about that |
| 21:58.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (~Kalroth@d40aa5af.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 22:06.00 | Fisker | nope TC-work |
| 22:06.14 | TC-work | really Fisker? i should |
| 22:06.40 | Fisker | screams isometric rts minecraft? |
| 22:06.59 | TC-work | I was going to say a majesty mionecraft hybrid but i decided against it |
| 22:07.02 | TC-work | minecraft* |
| 22:07.31 | TC-work | read the description Fisker, It's more majesty than minecraft |
| 22:08.07 | Fisker | i can disagree |
| 22:09.01 | *** join/#wowuidev phyber (phyber@irssi.co.uk) |
| 22:09.17 | TC-work | Nope |
| 22:09.31 | Fisker | i just did |
| 22:09.40 | TC-work | Lies |
| 22:25.59 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 22:27.45 | Antiarc | http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/11/09/blizzard-facing-class-action-lawsuit-over-battle-net-authenticat/ |
| 22:27.48 | Antiarc | frickin' |
| 22:27.49 | Antiarc | lol |
| 22:28.04 | jnwhiteh | hahaha |
| 22:28.18 | jnwhiteh | idiots |
| 22:31.43 | Antiarc | Bell seeks class damages for consumer fraud, unjust enrichment, negligence, breach of contract and bailment. Bell claims that game players have to pay $6.40 for a product called the Authenticator to protect their private information from hackers. |
| 22:31.49 | Antiarc | I am DYING over here. |
| 22:32.07 | nevcairiel | its the US, he might even win |
| 22:32.15 | Antiarc | Not a chance in hell. |
| 22:32.35 | jnwhiteh | not a chance |
| 22:32.38 | Antiarc | Authenticators are just HMAC-TOTP. |
| 22:32.41 | jnwhiteh | there are what... 5 free alternatives? |
| 22:32.45 | Antiarc | At least. |
| 22:32.49 | znf | WinAuth is the one I use |
| 22:32.52 | jnwhiteh | 3 of which are actually blizzard's |
| 22:32.53 | jnwhiteh | =) |
| 22:32.54 | Antiarc | I wrote 3, 2 of which are for personal use. |
| 22:33.09 | znf | because I can't be arsed to find my phone every time it asks it |
| 22:33.28 | jnwhiteh | I have a Ruby script that Tekkub wrote =) |
| 22:34.27 | znf | ew rubby |
| 22:34.28 | znf | ruby* |
| 22:34.34 | jnwhiteh | hey, I didn't write it |
| 22:34.38 | foxlit | Forgive me if I'm basing this off the wrong premises, but don't software implementions kind of defeat the point? |
| 22:34.45 | jnwhiteh | and it integrates with the keychain on mac |
| 22:34.46 | jnwhiteh | foxlit: no |
| 22:34.48 | jnwhiteh | not in the least |
| 22:35.09 | foxlit | To me, it seems like the idea is that you keep the secret inaccessible through software compromise. |
| 22:35.30 | jnwhiteh | no |
| 22:35.33 | Antiarc | Software implementations that run on a machine that isn't your WoW machine are fine. |
| 22:35.35 | jnwhiteh | the idea is two factor authentication |
| 22:35.39 | jnwhiteh | something you know, and something you have |
| 22:35.46 | Antiarc | Most of the time I get my auth codes via a web browser. |
| 22:35.49 | Semlar | it doesn't matter if you run it on the same computer as wow in the first place |
| 22:35.50 | jnwhiteh | the 'have' doesn't have to be a physical thing |
| 22:36.00 | Antiarc | Because I have a little script that runs on a webserver I own that generates auth codes for me. |
| 22:36.10 | Semlar | if you're entering the code into your computer they could get it regardless of whether the authenticator is separate or not |
| 22:36.31 | nevcairiel | but they need it rather realtime |
| 22:36.40 | nevcairiel | if you have the authenticator secret in your pc and they get that |
| 22:36.42 | jnwhiteh | I run it on the same computer, but the secure token cannot be accessed without my 32 character password, and I would have to be prompted for that |
| 22:36.43 | nevcairiel | you're screwed |
| 22:37.12 | jnwhiteh | if you store your token in plaintext, you're gonna have a bad time :P |
| 22:37.45 | znf | nevcairiel, you have a point there, but I don't think that someone, yet, targets that explicit piece of software with a trojan/malware whatever |
| 22:38.03 | nevcairiel | if its popular enough, they will |
| 22:38.20 | znf | it's just wasted time to target that specific piece of software, imho |
| 22:38.29 | nevcairiel | i just use the official one for android |
| 22:38.41 | znf | so do I, but I can't be arsed to search for my phone every time |
| 22:38.43 | jnwhiteh | I use Antiarc's |
| 22:38.46 | jnwhiteh | because I trust him more |
| 22:38.57 | Neffi | lol |
| 22:39.00 | nevcairiel | trust Antiarc? |
| 22:39.04 | Antiarc | It's just hmac totp, there's no black magic :P |
| 22:39.18 | jnwhiteh | you still have to 'store' the token |
| 22:39.30 | znf | Antiarc, but can yours clone the mobile one? :P |
| 22:39.37 | jnwhiteh | i assume its just in a sqlite db? |
| 22:39.42 | Antiarc | It's just sqlite, yes |
| 22:39.49 | jnwhiteh | just like google authenticator |
| 22:39.50 | Antiarc | Which is access-controlled by Android |
| 22:39.54 | jnwhiteh | makes it easy to move from phone to phone |
| 22:40.05 | jnwhiteh | Antiarc: You sure I can't adb pull it even without root? |
| 22:40.08 | Antiarc | If your phone is rooted and you install TokenStealer and grant it root access, then gg. |
| 22:40.22 | jnwhiteh | I can adb pull the google auth one =) |
| 22:40.28 | foxlit | Does your phone backup to your PC? |
| 22:40.32 | jnwhiteh | no? |
| 22:40.33 | Antiarc | Psh, it's Android. |
| 22:40.38 | Antiarc | Backs up to TEH CLOUDZ |
| 22:40.44 | Neffi | >_> |
| 22:40.54 | Antiarc | jnwhiteh: honestly, I dunno. I run rooted with a root adb session. |
| 22:41.01 | jnwhiteh | i should try |
| 22:41.02 | Unkle | THE CLOUDZ, OH NOES! |
| 22:41.03 | jnwhiteh | =) |
| 22:41.07 | znf | I'm quite curious how Win7's encryption works |
| 22:41.12 | Antiarc | (I also do that with full knowledge of what that means security-wise!) |
| 22:41.15 | znf | can any app access those encrypted files that WinAuth creates? |
| 22:41.18 | jnwhiteh | Antiarc: aye |
| 22:41.24 | znf | without confirmation? |
| 22:41.32 | nevcairiel | if its filesystem encryption, its just user controlled |
| 22:41.41 | nevcairiel | so any app running as your user can access it |
| 22:41.51 | Neffi | znf: I'm quite sure you can get at them from a liveCD |
| 22:42.04 | nevcairiel | nah, cant beat the encryption that easily |
| 22:42.10 | Antiarc | If I was targeting WinAuth I wouldn't even target the files on disk, I'd just look for the token in its memory space. |
| 22:42.19 | Neffi | Well you need to decrypt them |
| 22:42.23 | znf | you can copy them, but they'll probably be encrypted |
| 22:42.24 | Antiarc | Suck that out, upload it, gg and thanks for playing. |
| 22:42.30 | Neffi | but there are liveCDs specifically for bruteforcing Windows shit |
| 22:42.30 | Antiarc | They won't be encrypted in RAM! |
| 22:42.31 | jnwhiteh | yep =) |
| 22:42.35 | znf | Antiarc, wouldn't Win7 go nuts on that? |
| 22:42.52 | nevcairiel | Neffi: its a rather small file, bruteforcing without more data to go on is rather hard |
| 22:43.01 | Antiarc | znf: You have any idea how easy it is to get people to grant admin access to random processes on Windows? :P |
| 22:43.05 | Neffi | Oh I'm aware |
| 22:43.19 | Neffi | I thought he asked if you can get the encrypted copy |
| 22:43.42 | nevcairiel | plenty people turn off UAC, and heck, UAC at default levels even lets an app bypass its prompt if its smart and devious enough |
| 22:43.44 | znf | Antiarc, I know how easy people can be fooled... when I was younger I did some phishing... |
| 22:43.50 | nevcairiel | should always crank it up to maximum |
| 22:44.19 | Neffi | Problem is UAC is fucking annoying |
| 22:44.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Kodiack (~Colton@96-42-240-206.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) |
| 22:44.24 | nevcairiel | not really |
| 22:44.29 | Antiarc | The people who get their WoW accounts stolen have a very high overlap with people who practice poor computing security |
| 22:44.31 | nevcairiel | in my day to day use i never see a prompt |
| 22:44.32 | Antiarc | Can't save people from themselves. |
| 22:44.41 | nevcairiel | assuming i actually use the PC and dont try to tweak it all day long |
| 22:44.43 | znf | It's less annoying than it used to be on Vista |
| 22:44.48 | znf | it was a nightmare on Vista, though |
| 22:44.55 | znf | think they toned that down in a service pack? |
| 22:45.06 | Neffi | I don't use it >_> |
| 22:45.11 | nevcairiel | they just changed the default level, which is insecure, so increase it to maximum :P |
| 22:45.13 | znf | I don't, either |
| 22:45.19 | Neffi | I last used it on Vista and was annoyed to no end at it, so I never did again |
| 22:45.23 | nevcairiel | if you don't, you are fools, imho :p |
| 22:45.33 | Neffi | I figure, if my machine gets fucked up I keep a decent backup anyway |
| 22:45.36 | Antiarc | Neffi: Running as root is fun! Nothing bad could possibly happen. |
| 22:45.40 | znf | nevcairiel, I run without an antivirus or a firewall, what's your point? |
| 22:45.55 | nevcairiel | i know that you are a crazy fool anyway |
| 22:45.56 | nevcairiel | so shrug |
| 22:46.00 | Neffi | I practice good security on other systems. On Windows, I just reformat occasionally. |
| 22:46.14 | znf | Anything that is remotely suspicious I run trough Sandboxie :D |
| 22:46.24 | Antiarc | Win7 has a really robust security architecture. Why not take advantage of it? |
| 22:46.36 | Neffi | Apathy |
| 22:46.51 | znf | Some stuff is annoying |
| 22:47.05 | znf | "hey, you have a new app here! let me prompt you 7 times before you use it!" |
| 22:47.11 | Neffi | I don't particularly like using Windows, so I guess it's my subconscious that wants it to get fucked beyond belief and encourage me to finally try WoW in Wine |
| 22:47.16 | Antiarc | Security is a continuum of <--- security -------- convenience -- > |
| 22:47.25 | nevcairiel | like i said, even on maximum UAC, you only get a prompt when you start fiddling with system settings or install new things (and even then only once at the start of that process) |
| 22:47.41 | znf | "7" is an exageration, but let's see\ |
| 22:48.06 | kd3 | wow in wine is more or less painless these days |
| 22:48.18 | kd3 | <-- been using it since... 1.8? |
| 22:48.18 | nevcairiel | on day-to-day work that doesnt involve installing applications, i never see a single prompt |
| 22:48.32 | znf | 1st prompt if you want to run this downloaded application, 2nd when you install it, I think there's a 3rd one when you run it for the first time, 4th when it tries to connect to the network ? |
| 22:48.41 | Neffi | That's what I hear. And it runs better usually too. Just can't be fucked lately. Too busy. |
| 22:48.48 | Neffi | Haven't used Linux in a while |
| 22:49.13 | Antiarc | I'm probably gonna jump to Linux full-time once Steam really gets cranking on it. |
| 22:49.18 | znf | I pondered using linux, then I gave up |
| 22:49.38 | znf | I use so many windows-only applications that I would most likely have to run a Windows VM alongside, thus defeating the initial purpose |
| 22:49.52 | Neffi | I'm curious how well WoW would run on FreeBSD. Now that the Intel SB drivers are almost done, it's worth a try when I have the time. |
| 22:50.14 | Antiarc | The only Windows-speciifc things I use these days are Photoshop and Steam. |
| 22:50.17 | Neffi | I feel your pain znf. Damn school requiring properly formatted Word documents, and Visual Studio for CS class. |
| 22:50.19 | Antiarc | And Photoshop runs just dandy in wine. |
| 22:50.29 | Neffi | If not for school I'd have no use for Windows other than WoW, which Wine takes care of |
| 22:50.32 | Antiarc | LibreOffice is functionally equivalent to MS Office. |
| 22:50.34 | nevcairiel | didnt you hear, there is linux native steam now |
| 22:50.42 | Antiarc | nevcairiel: Yeah, but it's just gone into open beta. |
| 22:50.52 | znf | nah, you really can't compare any open source office suite with Microsoft's. |
| 22:50.53 | Antiarc | So, still very young. But super promising. |
| 22:50.57 | Neffi | Antiarc: That's a negative. Many things are improperly formatted when opening the file in Word. |
| 22:51.03 | Antiarc | znf: When's the last time you used LibreOffice? |
| 22:51.08 | Neffi | Functionally equivalent maybe but not perfectly compatible |
| 22:51.08 | nevcairiel | personally, i still consider every linux desktop environment absolutely lacking |
| 22:51.14 | Antiarc | Because I've been using it exclusively for about 3 years now without any problems whatsoever. |
| 22:51.25 | znf | Antiarc, do you do more than typing simple documents? :) |
| 22:51.39 | Antiarc | Yes? |
| 22:51.48 | znf | I have to say that one of the best things Microsoft did was their office suite. |
| 22:52.10 | Neffi | nevcairiel: Absolutely agree with your sentiments. I don't like any DEs. But I've become very accustomed to tiling WMs, so I'm more comfortable on Linux+dwm than on Windows. |
| 22:52.22 | znf | You can bash them for everything else, but they did a great job there. |
| 22:53.15 | Neffi | I still have it on my to-do list to write a good tiling WM with a modern sense of good keyboard+mouse management, and a Lua frontend that isn't as convoluted as Awesome's |
| 22:59.52 | Fisker | lol no Antiarc |
| 23:01.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~torhal@c-71-207-224-241.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 23:04.40 | Fisker | BTW znf |
| 23:05.01 | TC-work | http://www.webdelsol.com/The_Potomac/issue3/dumbfuckistan.jpg |
| 23:05.08 | znf | yes Fisker |
| 23:05.42 | Fisker | comparing libre office to ms office is like comparing a standard calculator to a scientific graphing calculator |
| 23:05.50 | Fisker | amirite? |
| 23:06.16 | Fisker | looks like mad |
| 23:06.32 | znf | Fisker, even worse, really |
| 23:06.51 | *** join/#wowuidev durcyn (~durcyn@WoWUIDev/Durcyn) |
| 23:07.10 | Fisker | Kranj this swipe air is awesome |
| 23:07.47 | Fisker | except the part where it does air instead of shit |
| 23:08.14 | Fisker | Kranj? how is that even a word |
| 23:09.12 | Fisker | five hours |
| 23:21.17 | Neffi | "You're one badass fucking fractal" |
| 23:21.20 | Neffi | I love JoCo |
| 23:22.11 | Neffi | So disappointed I bought all his music and then lost it all when I moved. =( |
| 23:23.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Ressy (~Ressy@unaffiliated/ressy) |
| 23:36.35 | Xuerian | haste: Random "You're a cool guy, and oUF is useful" ping. |
| 23:38.21 | Fisker | it's past his bedtime |
| 23:39.51 | Xuerian | Ah |
| 23:40.00 | TC-work | Mine too |
