| 00:13.15 | Adys_ | there was an addon that let you see the quality of pets when you fight them |
| 00:13.17 | Adys_ | what was its name? |
| 00:13.32 | Dagmar | rsomething |
| 00:13.56 | Dagmar | rPetBattleAnnouncer is one |
| 00:13.57 | Seerah | Adys: this one? http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info21362-PetBattleQualityGlow.html |
| 00:14.21 | bluspacecow | or that |
| 00:14.30 | bluspacecow | apparently being changed in 5.1 |
| 00:14.42 | Dagmar | The glow seems a bit overkill unless yer visually impaired |
| 00:15.14 | bluspacecow | actually theres a few changes making many pet battle addons obselete coming in 5.1 |
| 00:15.32 | Seerah | Dagmar: howso? |
| 00:15.41 | Dagmar | I *think* PetJournalEnhanced is what's already making sure pet rarity shows up during the battles |
| 00:16.01 | Dagmar | Either that or BattlePetCount |
| 00:16.18 | Dagmar | Seerah: because their names are already colored according to their rarity on my screen |
| 00:16.45 | Dagmar | That r-thing I mentioned puts a kind of gaudy interstitial screen-covering window up that shows all three at once before you really begin |
| 00:16.47 | bluspacecow | ewww PJE |
| 00:16.54 | bluspacecow | master of "HOOK ALL THE THINGS" |
| 00:16.55 | Adys | thx Seerah |
| 00:16.58 | bluspacecow | even if we dont need to |
| 00:17.18 | Dagmar | bluespacecow: Yeah but it lets you turn the journal into a List Of Pets From Here You Don't Have Yet |
| 00:18.44 | Adys | i dont want to use too many pet battle addons |
| 00:18.46 | Adys | at least for now |
| 00:18.51 | Adys | but its bullshit blizz didnt think of this |
| 00:19.13 | Adys | i really found that over time blizz improved the UI a lot, to the point that using the default UI is viable |
| 00:19.19 | Adys | which used to be unthinkable |
| 00:19.24 | Dagmar | Well yeah I'm figuring most of them will become obsolete quickly because it looks like they just didn't do any work on that part of the UI after just getting the names and icons on the screen |
| 00:19.30 | Adys | tradeskill windows still need a lot of work tho =\ |
| 00:20.11 | Dagmar | I would've thought it'd be a no-brainer that you'd want to see the rarity of the opposing pets represented somewhere |
| 00:20.15 | Adys | do epic pets exist btw? i saw there were epic stones |
| 00:20.27 | Dagmar | Adys: Not that I've even heard of |
| 00:20.42 | Dagmar | Seems like once you've beaten all the NPC trainers it's just dailies all the way down |
| 00:26.23 | Adys | seriously |
| 00:26.28 | Adys | mr grubbs is completely fucking overpowered |
| 00:32.49 | Gnarfoz | Adys: if you don't want too many addons, just use Torhal's PetTheory, it's the best anyway! *plug* |
| 00:33.00 | Adys | what does it do? |
| 00:33.07 | Gnarfoz | everything! |
| 00:33.22 | Gnarfoz | (no idea, I haven't played WoWkemon, yet) |
| 00:33.26 | Adys | that doesnt sound like something i want |
| 00:34.22 | Gnarfoz | it's by torhal, of course you do :( |
| 00:34.28 | bluspacecow | http://www.wowace.com/addons/pet-theory/ |
| 00:35.00 | bluspacecow | essentially aiming to do what PJE does , except in a non retarded way. |
| 00:35.02 | Gnarfoz | sneakycow |
| 00:35.52 | Adys | i really just wanted pet rarity, which i now have |
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| 00:41.02 | Ackis | go support my thread: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6863616341#1 |
| 00:41.09 | Ackis | bluspacecow: too bad a moron wrote pet theory :D |
| 00:42.20 | bluspacecow | >_> <_< |
| 00:43.38 | Humbedooh | Ackis: you wrote it? |
| 00:44.07 | Ackis | Humbedooh: ouch |
| 00:44.12 | Humbedooh | :3 |
| 00:44.43 | Ackis | bluspacecow: I love how you always support my threads :D |
| 00:46.38 | bluspacecow | not sure posting beeeeeeeeeesssss counts as support |
| 00:46.39 | bluspacecow | but okay |
| 00:47.02 | Ackis | ilu |
| 00:47.26 | Humbedooh | why u not 90 yet, bluspacecow |
| 00:47.36 | bluspacecow | i lazy |
| 00:47.40 | Humbedooh | :| |
| 00:47.46 | bluspacecow | get distracted eas- OOOO SQUIRREL! |
| 00:48.12 | Humbedooh | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Eichh%C3%B6rnchen_D%C3%BCsseldorf_Hofgarten_edit.jpg ! |
| 00:49.04 | mckenziemc | ! |
| 00:49.06 | Humbedooh | question is...how'd you know I was looking at a squirrel <_< >_> |
| 00:49.15 | bluspacecow | cause |
| 00:49.16 | bluspacecow | radish |
| 00:49.19 | bluspacecow | knows all |
| 00:51.21 | bluspacecow | wow |
| 00:51.30 | bluspacecow | the saurons from dr who are in wow |
| 00:51.32 | bluspacecow | or sileks |
| 00:51.36 | bluspacecow | or w/e theyre called |
| 00:51.42 | Humbedooh | daleks? :\ |
| 00:51.46 | Gnarfoz | sauroks? |
| 00:51.54 | mckenziemc | miwoks |
| 00:51.58 | Humbedooh | saruman? |
| 00:52.23 | mckenziemc | sumarians |
| 00:52.45 | Humbedooh | they are crafty |
| 00:53.27 | bluspacecow | the lizard guys |
| 00:53.38 | bluspacecow | the ewoks ? |
| 00:56.42 | Semlar | the ewoks |
| 00:56.45 | Humbedooh | the gorn? |
| 00:57.00 | Semlar | the lizard people in dr who were called silurians |
| 00:59.53 | bluspacecow | thank you |
| 01:06.51 | Arrowmaster | oh damn its 9 already |
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| 01:08.30 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 01:09.33 | Arrowmaster | dis gona be good |
| 01:34.41 | pompy | for what |
| 01:36.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Antiarc (~Instantbi@ip98-165-104-202.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 01:40.47 | Arrowmaster | pompy: VP debate |
| 01:41.31 | Humbedooh | me likey |
| 01:45.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Ressy (~Ressy@unaffiliated/ressy) |
| 01:46.08 | pompy | ohj yeah |
| 01:48.02 | Shirik | I just found out I'm accidentally eligible for upgrade to an iphone 5 |
| 01:48.08 | Shirik | wtf |
| 01:49.37 | bluspacecow | y |
| 01:50.16 | Humbedooh | aand signal lost ;( |
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| 02:13.48 | starlon | hopes the black market finds a corrupted ashbringer. Amen. |
| 02:14.34 | starlon | I picked up tier 3 gloves yesterday. |
| 02:15.37 | starlon | Brings me to 4/9 pieces total. :D |
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| 02:24.06 | kd3 | hm |
| 02:24.19 | kd3 | wonders how much of the mpqs he can copy from live to save a 22gb download |
| 02:26.21 | bluspacecow | if you can find a .mfil file for the PTR and compare it from one from live |
| 02:26.30 | bluspacecow | and they have the same file size and patch base |
| 02:26.32 | bluspacecow | i guess so |
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| 02:35.24 | Humbedooh | well that was a fun debate |
| 02:36.21 | bluspacecow | @kd3 live mfil : http://dist.blizzard.com.edgesuite.net/wow-pod-retail/NA/15890.direct/wow-16135-99775E08EBD8BBAAEB3B602D8A663483.mfil |
| 02:36.32 | bluspacecow | ptr mfil : http://dist.blizzard.com.edgesuite.net/wow-pod/public-test/15890.direct/wowt-16139-FB2FB7D7699B5065A259D550478D8A55.mfil |
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| 02:40.12 | kd3 | looks like... most of it |
| 02:43.58 | Shirik | so I'm reading through the voters pamphlet that I received. Oregon State Treasurer candidates.... for the progressive party |
| 02:43.59 | Shirik | Occupation: Student | Occupational Background: Student | Educational Background: Portland Community College | Prior Governmental Experience: None |
| 02:44.02 | kd3 | actually, it looks like all of it outside of base-Win |
| 02:45.03 | kd3 | yay. a ~20gb download turned into a <100mb download. that's my kind of efficiency gain |
| 02:45.14 | kd3 | waits for the mpq copy to finish... |
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| 03:07.54 | kd3 | the winner of the etiquette thread on reddit: |
| 03:07.55 | kd3 | So see, what you do is, get in, slide across the seat to get all the dirt and vomit on your pants, get out the other side, walk around the cab, close the door behind the lady, walk back around, finish your scotch after the cab driver, leave half of your rice on the plate (unless you're in India where you take three times as much as you want to eat), corner the bowl, walk under the chamber pot shitwater, go ass to mouth, pay for the morning after sal |
| 03:07.55 | kd3 | t and pepper shaker, pass on the left unless you're going 20 over, do a favor for Hitler then NEVER EVER leave your elbows on the table. |
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| 05:50.54 | Stanzilla | this makes me so mad http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/82845545/ |
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| 06:01.39 | bleeter | http://www.overclockers.com.au/pic.php?pic=images/newspics/12oct12/27.jpg |
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| 06:07.14 | kd3 | emails out at oh-dark-hundred. g'night |
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| 06:14.30 | Arrowmaster | just used the new version of the play store to finally remove some of these old apps from my list the especially annoying ones are the demos of stuff i have the full versions for |
| 06:15.05 | kd3 | I'm going to assume photoshopped: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mainiuRx3c1rucc4go1_500.gif |
| 06:16.23 | Arrowmaster | cant even tell what it is |
| 06:16.40 | kd3 | both ends of a commuter train stitched together |
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| 06:21.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 06:21.56 | Subspace | If I have near the top of the first file to load something like this (not in a function): " if x then return; end" does the return stop your entire addon from loading? Or just that file? |
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| 06:22.58 | karl_w_w | <kd3> I'm going to assume photoshopped: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mainiuRx3c1rucc4go1_500.gif yeah if you follow the bottom of it as it goes past you can tell from the pixels |
| 06:23.36 | karl_w_w | none of the above Subspace :P |
| 06:23.44 | Subspace | hmm ok |
| 06:23.44 | Arrowmaster | Subspace: file |
| 06:24.07 | karl_w_w | it stops the file from loading? o.O |
| 06:24.08 | Arrowmaster | karl_w_w lies |
| 06:24.12 | Arrowmaster | yes it does |
| 06:29.08 | Subspace | What is the correct way to access my library namespace in file2 of my library? |
| 06:29.25 | Subspace | first file in library has LibStub:NewLibrary() called. |
| 06:29.37 | Subspace | Just use GetLibrary in the following files? |
| 06:29.56 | Arrowmaster | yeah |
| 06:30.01 | Subspace | ok |
| 06:30.11 | jnwhiteh | wait |
| 06:30.13 | jnwhiteh | that's not right |
| 06:30.15 | Arrowmaster | wait is your library multiple files? |
| 06:30.23 | jnwhiteh | if these are two files in your library, then no |
| 06:30.25 | Subspace | Yeah, my lib is multiple files |
| 06:30.29 | jnwhiteh | you don't register the library until its done |
| 06:30.30 | Arrowmaster | then you are fucked |
| 06:30.40 | Subspace | hmm |
| 06:30.43 | Arrowmaster | multi file libs are a complete bitch |
| 06:30.48 | jnwhiteh | yep |
| 06:30.50 | Subspace | I thought about passing it through ... |
| 06:30.54 | jnwhiteh | you can't. |
| 06:30.55 | Subspace | But that is bad I thought |
| 06:30.59 | jnwhiteh | you can't control what goes through ... |
| 06:31.07 | Subspace | Umm why not? |
| 06:31.13 | jnwhiteh | because you can't? |
| 06:31.17 | Subspace | local name, pass = ... |
| 06:31.30 | jnwhiteh | that assumes your library is a standalone addon |
| 06:31.34 | Subspace | local lib = LibStub:NewLibrary(); |
| 06:31.35 | jnwhiteh | that's a false assumption |
| 06:31.44 | Subspace | hmm |
| 06:31.48 | Arrowmaster | if the library is embeded in another addon then you dont know what ... might be |
| 06:31.54 | Subspace | Thats what I was gonna say |
| 06:32.21 | Subspace | Right now its standalone, but then I thought, "What if someone uses it not standalone. Then I just added shit to ... for their addon." |
| 06:32.24 | Arrowmaster | embedded libraries really only work as a single file |
| 06:32.54 | Subspace | Right now my lib is a separate addon |
| 06:32.57 | Subspace | This a problem? |
| 06:33.06 | jnwhiteh | no |
| 06:33.09 | jnwhiteh | but you're making assumptions |
| 06:33.12 | jnwhiteh | that change your design |
| 06:33.14 | jnwhiteh | we're discouraging this |
| 06:33.21 | Arrowmaster | trying to do multifile ones always ends up in failure except for a few rare cases like LibPeridiocTable where it basically creates a different library for each file |
| 06:33.32 | Subspace | Discouraging standalone lib? Or other things? |
| 06:34.01 | Elkano | if your lib is standalone only, there is no reason to use LibStub |
| 06:34.11 | Subspace | I see |
| 06:34.26 | Subspace | Is is bad to make it standalone optional? |
| 06:34.33 | Subspace | That is support standalone and embed? |
| 06:34.39 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 06:34.40 | Elkano | since LibStub is ment to aid if multiple instances (and maybe versions) of the same lib are present |
| 06:35.05 | Subspace | Yeah, I was intending it to be optionally standalone |
| 06:35.24 | Subspace | But optionally standalone and multifile looks like it might be difficult |
| 06:36.27 | Elkano | multifile libs work by each file being a seperate lib bundled togehter in standalone |
| 06:37.10 | Elkano | but that only makes sense if you can logicaly split the lib into independant parts |
| 06:37.28 | Subspace | Could only split mine into maybe 2 parts |
| 06:37.35 | Subspace | And those two parts are not the 2 files that I have |
| 06:37.36 | Elkano | eg for LPT, a core lib and several data libs |
| 06:37.44 | Arrowmaster | you can always combine it into one file though |
| 06:37.52 | Subspace | Yeah, but thats ugly |
| 06:38.04 | Subspace | I have 3 files, one of which is hundreds of lines of data |
| 06:38.16 | Arrowmaster | its not ugly once you try to debug a multifile embeded lib |
| 06:38.55 | Subspace | What is wrong with debugging it? Besides maybe namespace/local issues and the order the files load. |
| 06:39.31 | Arrowmaster | all hell breaks loose when multiple addons are embedding differnet versions of it |
| 06:40.17 | Subspace | hm |
| 06:40.41 | Elkano | if you only ever want the full package, do a single file; users don't see the content and a good editor can just fold the data |
| 06:41.15 | Subspace | Sigh so ugly though |
| 06:42.55 | Subspace | I have an idea |
| 06:43.09 | Subspace | I could use ... to get the name of the current (parent) addon |
| 06:43.25 | Subspace | Pass that to the lib table when it loads |
| 06:43.50 | Subspace | Then at the top of all the lib files, check the addon name vs the one stored, if it is not the same, return; |
| 06:43.57 | Subspace | What could go wrong there? |
| 06:44.02 | Arrowmaster | lots |
| 06:45.03 | Arrowmaster | do you understand how libstub works when multiple copys of the library are embedded in different addons? |
| 06:45.27 | Subspace | Let me go read the libstub code |
| 06:45.30 | Subspace | give me 30 sec |
| 06:45.55 | Arrowmaster | well its not just the libstub code but how you call it in the library |
| 06:46.41 | Subspace | Does it not just return nil for all but the first one loaded (assuming same version) |
| 06:46.43 | Subspace | ? |
| 06:46.53 | Arrowmaster | right |
| 06:47.05 | Arrowmaster | and in the library you check and if it returns nil you do nothing |
| 06:47.16 | Subspace | Yeah, it returns right away |
| 06:47.26 | Subspace | Then you have the OTHER files that do not return right away |
| 06:47.36 | Subspace | Which will cause problems |
| 06:47.48 | Subspace | So we need to make them return right away |
| 06:48.09 | Subspace | Addons must have unique names by the nature of how filesystems work |
| 06:48.15 | Subspace | (Libs dont) |
| 06:48.45 | Subspace | So how does my idea fail? |
| 06:49.00 | Arrowmaster | what exactly is this new idea? |
| 06:49.20 | Subspace | Basically, you call NewLibrary() |
| 06:49.24 | Subspace | (In the first file) |
| 06:49.39 | Subspace | If nil, you return, otherwise you load the first file. |
| 06:50.10 | Subspace | Before you load the first file (but after checking nil), you store the addon name from ... into lib.addonName or whatever |
| 06:50.17 | Subspace | Now you go to file 2. |
| 06:50.25 | Subspace | You call GetLibrary() |
| 06:50.50 | Subspace | If it has not been loaded before, only file 1 will have been loaded and we will have the same addonName |
| 06:51.08 | Arrowmaster | ok in theory this can work |
| 06:51.12 | Subspace | So we decide to now check lib.addonName against addonName from ... |
| 06:51.28 | Subspace | If it matches, we load, otherwise return right away |
| 06:51.40 | Arrowmaster | the bad news is that ive seen addons with multiple versions of the same library embedded in them multiple times |
| 06:51.52 | Subspace | o.O |
| 06:52.12 | Subspace | Only way that makes sense is if they use libA directly and use libB, which also uses libA |
| 06:52.18 | Elkano | you could do a lib:RegisterData(version, data) and version your data |
| 06:52.44 | Arrowmaster | yeah go with that idea |
| 06:53.09 | Subspace | I have to implement the RegisterData() function? |
| 06:53.13 | Arrowmaster | yeah |
| 06:53.19 | Elkano | that's how LPT does it, too |
| 06:53.23 | Subspace | Hmm |
| 06:53.41 | Subspace | So functions also count as data that you register? |
| 06:53.49 | Arrowmaster | just copy paste libstub into your library and rename it to RegisterData() |
| 06:53.58 | Arrowmaster | well not really |
| 06:54.10 | Arrowmaster | but make something like libstub to do it |
| 06:54.13 | Subspace | file1 and file2 both define functions for my lib |
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| 06:54.46 | Subspace | That seems like it would cause problems |
| 06:55.28 | Arrowmaster | yeah |
| 06:55.39 | Arrowmaster | stop being so complicated |
| 06:56.01 | Subspace | :O |
| 06:56.21 | Subspace | Feel like I should just add this idea to LibStub() and send it in. |
| 06:56.41 | Arrowmaster | it wont get accepted |
| 06:56.46 | Subspace | Yeah, figured :\ |
| 06:56.48 | Arrowmaster | libstub hasnt changed in years |
| 06:57.16 | Subspace | Thought I saw an update? |
| 06:57.18 | jnwhiteh | on purpose |
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| 06:57.25 | Subspace | Maybe it wasn't to LibStub.lua |
| 06:57.31 | jnwhiteh | Subspace: we will not make that change to LS |
| 06:57.55 | Subspace | jnwhiteh, np :) |
| 06:58.34 | Subspace | Just .toc update it seems |
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| 07:00.54 | Subspace | Does curse allow you to define one addon as a dependency of another? |
| 07:01.33 | Arrowmaster | yes |
| 07:02.11 | Arrowmaster | if you are using the repos you can do it in your .pkgmeta file |
| 07:02.25 | Arrowmaster | otherwise you can do it in the interface somewhere on curseforge |
| 07:03.06 | Arrowmaster | i abused it to make the curse client install standalone libraries for people using some major addons in the past to work around a bug |
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| 07:04.10 | Subspace | Can you do it on the website w/o a .pkgmeta file? |
| 07:04.16 | jnwhiteh | no |
| 07:04.16 | Subspace | It you are using repo I mean |
| 07:04.17 | Subspace | ok |
| 07:04.20 | Subspace | Err |
| 07:04.21 | jnwhiteh | you can't do anything on the website |
| 07:04.25 | Subspace | Ok didnt think so |
| 07:04.25 | jnwhiteh | =) |
| 07:04.31 | Subspace | Will make a .pkgmeta file :p |
| 07:06.08 | Subspace | jnwhiteh, If I do that, will the .zip that is created automatically have the lib, or does it download two zips? |
| 07:07.59 | jnwhiteh | i think it still makes nolib and lib versions, if configured. I dunno. |
| 07:08.22 | Subspace | Ahh just checked it does |
| 07:08.28 | Subspace | Reading http://wow.curseforge.com/wiki/projects/pkgmeta-file/ |
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| 07:17.20 | Torhal | I'm just trying to figure out why you come in and try to do things completely differently (and insanely more complex) when we've had a working system for years. |
| 07:17.21 | Torhal | Heh |
| 07:18.18 | jnwhiteh | Torhal: we had the same discussions when we were starting, if this is new to him its reasonable. |
| 07:18.31 | jnwhiteh | Very few people just fall in line without having a personal understanding of WHY things are the way they are. |
| 07:18.35 | jnwhiteh | I'm horribly guilty of that =) |
| 07:19.20 | Subspace | Torhal, I dont want to change everything :) |
| 07:19.24 | Torhal | True, but when seeing that the system has been around for years, it should be safe to assume there's a damn good reason :) |
| 07:19.43 | Subspace | Some things seem a bit weird, but I assume there are good reasons |
| 07:20.16 | Subspace | For instance http://wow.curseforge.com/wiki/projects/pkgmeta-file/ helps answer many questions |
| 07:20.40 | Subspace | Wish there was a list of "Good documentation to read" links |
| 07:21.19 | jnwhiteh | there's an appendix on libstub in my book |
| 07:21.20 | jnwhiteh | IIRC |
| 07:21.30 | Fisker | y u do dis blizzard? |
| 07:21.45 | Subspace | For instance it seems wasteful to just package the same addon a bunch of times with each addon |
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| 07:22.20 | Subspace | *same lib |
| 07:22.23 | jnwhiteh | well |
| 07:22.29 | jnwhiteh | I created embedded libraries to solve an issue |
| 07:22.41 | Subspace | Seems like the package manager (curse, the player, etc.) should be in charge of having only one of each lib installed |
| 07:22.53 | jnwhiteh | yeah, people are dumb. |
| 07:22.57 | jnwhiteh | I include MyLib-1.0 |
| 07:23.02 | jnwhiteh | you include a newer version of MyLib-1.0 |
| 07:23.04 | jnwhiteh | we both have .zip files |
| 07:23.07 | jnwhiteh | which gets included? |
| 07:23.12 | jnwhiteh | mine which has a bug, or yours? |
| 07:23.22 | jnwhiteh | that depends on in what order the files get unzipped/copied. |
| 07:23.22 | Subspace | Mine only |
| 07:23.27 | jnwhiteh | how? |
| 07:23.30 | jnwhiteh | how does the player know? |
| 07:23.31 | Subspace | No, it doesn't/shoudn't |
| 07:23.34 | jnwhiteh | why? |
| 07:23.35 | jnwhiteh | how? |
| 07:23.43 | Subspace | Because yours is 1.0.0 |
| 07:23.46 | Subspace | mine is 1.0.1 |
| 07:24.01 | Subspace | The game should see, "Oh he has the a newer version with the same api" |
| 07:24.03 | jnwhiteh | the only way that is known is in some Lua file |
| 07:24.04 | jnwhiteh | "The game" |
| 07:24.05 | Subspace | Load that one, ignore the other |
| 07:24.05 | jnwhiteh | yeah no |
| 07:24.08 | jnwhiteh | that system doesn't exist |
| 07:24.11 | jnwhiteh | so, reject that |
| 07:24.13 | jnwhiteh | how does it happen? |
| 07:24.19 | Subspace | The package manager |
| 07:24.28 | Subspace | Should have two packages |
| 07:24.32 | Subspace | One for lib one for addon |
| 07:24.34 | jnwhiteh | Curse Client, okay.. but now every single user has to use a downloadable piece of software and they're restricted to a single website. |
| 07:24.35 | Subspace | Two zips |
| 07:24.42 | jnwhiteh | that's not going to happen |
| 07:24.43 | jnwhiteh | so try again =) |
| 07:24.53 | Subspace | Or they can DL manually |
| 07:24.56 | jnwhiteh | okay |
| 07:24.58 | jnwhiteh | and people ar edumb |
| 07:25.07 | jnwhiteh | and there's no easy way for them to tell that one is newer than the other |
| 07:25.12 | Subspace | And have the addon throw an err w/o the lib saying to go DL it |
| 07:25.13 | jnwhiteh | you've just arrived at the reason for embedded libraries. |
| 07:25.32 | Subspace | Yeah, to fix users being dumb :| |
| 07:25.35 | jnwhiteh | =) |
| 07:25.35 | Kemayo | Yes, independently deriving how LibStub and similar work. :) |
| 07:25.52 | jnwhiteh | That is why I wrote AceLibrary Dongle, and finally LibStub |
| 07:25.55 | Subspace | Yeah, I realized that quite a while ago |
| 07:25.56 | jnwhiteh | =) |
| 07:26.07 | jnwhiteh | err AceLibrary, DongleStub, and Libstub |
| 07:26.14 | Subspace | Yeah |
| 07:26.21 | jnwhiteh | so anyone who wants to can blame me for creating wow addon DLL hell |
| 07:26.27 | jnwhiteh | :P |
| 07:26.44 | jnwhiteh | the cost is a slight reduction in load time, for the gain of having things 'just work' |
| 07:26.51 | Kemayo | Eh, seems better than the alternative. |
| 07:26.54 | Fisker | yawns at jnwhiteh |
| 07:27.00 | jnwhiteh | that's why I pursued it =) |
| 07:27.06 | jnwhiteh | because people kept fucking with my addons |
| 07:27.08 | jnwhiteh | with libraries |
| 07:27.15 | jnwhiteh | by including old versions of the shared libraries |
| 07:27.25 | jnwhiteh | because I wanted my download to be all-inclusive for my users =) |
| 07:27.33 | jnwhiteh | it was a fun and crazy time! |
| 07:28.16 | Subspace | Why not check for the right version of lib? |
| 07:28.20 | Subspace | And complain if its wrong |
| 07:28.28 | Kemayo | Strange to think it's been, like, 8 years. :P |
| 07:28.44 | jnwhiteh | Subspace: follow that thought, what does it actually look like? |
| 07:28.48 | Elkano | we've come a long way ^^ |
| 07:28.58 | jnwhiteh | My addon should not be tied to a specific minor version |
| 07:29.02 | jnwhiteh | that's the whole point of minor versions |
| 07:29.07 | jnwhiteh | I want MyLibrary-1.0 |
| 07:29.19 | Subspace | lib.version = 1.0 |
| 07:29.21 | jnwhiteh | I want the latest minor revision of that library, regardless of who bundled it |
| 07:29.33 | Subspace | If lib.version < 1.0 then whatever |
| 07:29.45 | jnwhiteh | because my addons will ALWAYS be all-included. |
| 07:29.45 | Subspace | have major and minor? |
| 07:29.49 | Elkano | Subspace, there have been libs just for trying to figure out which version of an addon was newer than another due to the fact that there are so many different version strings around :/ |
| 07:29.50 | jnwhiteh | the user will never have to download something else. |
| 07:29.57 | Subspace | rAnd onload check for older versions? |
| 07:30.00 | jnwhiteh | I have ONE .zip file. |
| 07:30.08 | jnwhiteh | I tie my addon to a major version |
| 07:30.12 | jnwhiteh | I want the latest minor revision of the major version |
| 07:30.21 | durcyn | Subspace: exactly how many different lib versions are you envisioning here |
| 07:30.28 | jnwhiteh | I will not use libraries where someone makes API changes inside a major version |
| 07:30.38 | Subspace | dosent matter |
| 07:30.39 | Subspace | could be 100 |
| 07:30.48 | jnwhiteh | But what are you trying to solve? |
| 07:30.54 | jnwhiteh | What's the use-case here? |
| 07:31.16 | Elkano | writing/maintaining a good library can be hard wrt upgrading |
| 07:31.35 | Subspace | I want one piece of code many addons can use |
| 07:31.46 | jnwhiteh | you have it, it's called LibStub |
| 07:32.06 | jnwhiteh | I'm addressing specifics about what I want as an addon author. |
| 07:32.12 | jnwhiteh | Explain how I'd get that with your system? |
| 07:32.13 | Subspace | There should not be more than one version w/ the same major |
| 07:32.24 | jnwhiteh | okay |
| 07:32.29 | jnwhiteh | and WHO makes sure it gets updated? |
| 07:32.32 | Subspace | 1.0.2 and 1.0.3 should not both exist |
| 07:32.35 | jnwhiteh | when there is a new version of that library? |
| 07:32.38 | Subspace | package manager |
| 07:32.42 | jnwhiteh | there isn't one |
| 07:32.44 | Subspace | (or the user) |
| 07:32.44 | jnwhiteh | we've been through this |
| 07:32.45 | cbreak-work | so you simply don't support bugfixes? |
| 07:32.46 | cbreak-work | funny. |
| 07:32.47 | jnwhiteh | there isn't one |
| 07:32.50 | cbreak-work | sounds like adobe. |
| 07:32.52 | jnwhiteh | you have to drop that |
| 07:32.54 | Subspace | No that is the point |
| 07:32.56 | jnwhiteh | there is no package manager |
| 07:33.03 | Subspace | That *does* support bug fixes |
| 07:33.05 | jnwhiteh | Blizzard would have to implement one |
| 07:33.07 | jnwhiteh | and they aren't. |
| 07:33.13 | jnwhiteh | no other third-party one will work |
| 07:33.17 | jnwhiteh | so you can't rely on that |
| 07:33.41 | cbreak-work | if you have a 1.0.2, then you can't make a bug fixed 1.0.3 because 1.0.2 already exists. |
| 07:33.44 | cbreak-work | -> no bugfixes |
| 07:33.55 | Kemayo | Subspace: That supports bugfixes, once addons explicitly request them. So every single addon you want to get the fixed version needs to be updated. |
| 07:33.59 | Subspace | nah then 1.0.3 overwrites 1.0.2 and you dont have that anymoer |
| 07:34.06 | jnwhiteh | Subspace: all based on a premise that is false |
| 07:34.18 | Subspace | What premise? |
| 07:34.25 | Kemayo | We're back to how LibStub already works, then. |
| 07:34.26 | jnwhiteh | that there is a package manager |
| 07:34.33 | jnwhiteh | the only one that would work is a Blizzard supported one |
| 07:34.39 | Subspace | A human downloading files is a package manager |
| 07:34.41 | jnwhiteh | there isn't one, and there isn't going to be one |
| 07:34.44 | jnwhiteh | humans fail |
| 07:34.56 | jnwhiteh | I *refuse*, outright REFUSE to error if the user does not have a library of the right version |
| 07:34.58 | jnwhiteh | absolutely refuse |
| 07:35.02 | jnwhiteh | my addons are downloadable and usable. |
| 07:35.06 | cbreak-work | you can write lua code in such a way that a library puts itself into a table at a field defined by its version number |
| 07:35.09 | jnwhiteh | I would never use an addon that failed |
| 07:35.14 | jnwhiteh | under any condition |
| 07:35.14 | Elkano | Subspace, so all your libs are standalone? |
| 07:35.15 | cbreak-work | and would replace older versions with the same major |
| 07:35.24 | cbreak-work | but that would require the addon author herself to implement that |
| 07:35.38 | cbreak-work | it can not easily be added to existing addons. |
| 07:35.41 | Subspace | Elkano, No, they will not be, but they *should* be |
| 07:35.50 | Subspace | I follow the conventions of the community |
| 07:35.56 | jnwhiteh | so now I'm an author, a very popular one, and I refuse to use your system |
| 07:36.02 | jnwhiteh | with good reason =) |
| 07:36.18 | Subspace | seems like a bandaid |
| 07:36.19 | cbreak-work | all my addons are selfcontained |
| 07:36.27 | jnwhiteh | what is a bandaid |
| 07:36.28 | cbreak-work | and they have a release number instead of a version number |
| 07:36.34 | jnwhiteh | the fact that I provide good customer service? |
| 07:36.34 | cbreak-work | works fine for atomic things |
| 07:36.38 | Elkano | so, with standalone and just zip files, how would you distribute a large addon having multiple libs? several zip files I guess? |
| 07:36.41 | jnwhiteh | What is a bandaid? |
| 07:36.46 | Subspace | no the fact users are dumb |
| 07:37.08 | durcyn | you're never going to change, that, and your contempt for it is is tiresome |
| 07:37.09 | Kemayo | Users aren't dumb. Users have different priorities than we do. |
| 07:37.09 | Elkano | and if a user downloads the addon, he'd have to check for each of your libs not to overwrite an existing newer version |
| 07:37.25 | Subspace | Should have phased that differently |
| 07:37.29 | jnwhiteh | We should not put the burden on the user |
| 07:37.34 | Subspace | Suppose 1.0.2 has a bug that 1.0.3 fixes |
| 07:37.46 | Subspace | User has both versions, why should 1.0.2 ever be used? |
| 07:37.52 | jnwhiteh | it shouldn't. |
| 07:37.53 | jnwhiteh | it isn't. |
| 07:37.55 | jnwhiteh | that's precisely the point |
| 07:38.03 | jnwhiteh | also, we don't include the minor revisions in the version string |
| 07:38.06 | Subspace | Right, libstub solves that very well |
| 07:38.08 | cbreak-work | doesn't change the fact that both exist |
| 07:38.37 | jnwhiteh | but you haven't given me an acceptable way to make that happen that is actually grounded in reality =) |
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| 07:39.59 | Subspace | Should we, if possible, get rid of 1.0.2 if we also have 1.0.3 on the same computer? |
| 07:40.04 | jnwhiteh | How? |
| 07:40.11 | Subspace | Overwrite? |
| 07:40.14 | jnwhiteh | Blizzard isn't implementing a package management system, so there is no way to do it. |
| 07:40.17 | jnwhiteh | as I've said, like 19 times now. |
| 07:40.23 | jnwhiteh | =) |
| 07:40.37 | Kemayo | We do get rid of it. In memory, as soon as 1.0.3 is loaded. |
| 07:40.44 | jnwhiteh | yep, its discarded |
| 07:40.45 | Subspace | Eh, giving an error or warning to the user seems like the best solution |
| 07:40.51 | jnwhiteh | the chunk is compiled, loaded, and then garbage collected |
| 07:41.02 | jnwhiteh | Subspace: I have millions of downloads, I will not give an error message to the user. |
| 07:41.12 | jnwhiteh | Under any circumstances |
| 07:41.17 | jnwhiteh | (for a library issue) |
| 07:41.24 | durcyn | why on earth does throwing an unnecessary error to save a few kilobytes of disk space for a certain window of time between updates of n+1 addons EVER seem like a good idea? |
| 07:41.40 | jnwhiteh | durcyn: it doesn't, that's why I am confused |
| 07:42.05 | Subspace | It has the second issue of not really having a way to have a multifile lib |
| 07:42.23 | Torhal | I believe he's coming from the *NIX mindset - there's one copy of shared libraries. The problem with that is, AddOn users have no idea nor give half a fuck about that system. They want to get their AddOn and log into WoW and have it Just Work. |
| 07:42.30 | Subspace | Torhal, Exactly |
| 07:42.30 | jnwhiteh | Subspace: don't get me wrong. I have had every thought that you're coming up with. But the fact of the matter is we are limited by the tools and reality that are available to us. If you don't have a Blizzard-supported addon site you cannot do it in an automated way. If you throw an error, users will not use your addon. |
| 07:42.38 | durcyn | oh really, the nix mindset, huh |
| 07:42.51 | Torhal | durcyn: :P |
| 07:43.00 | jnwhiteh | Subspace: Torhal: it just doesn't work given the two things I said. |
| 07:43.06 | jnwhiteh | I know exactly *why* he's saying it |
| 07:43.10 | jnwhiteh | but its not grounded in reality =) |
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| 07:43.13 | Torhal | jnwhiteh: I know, and I tried to explain that way earlier today :) |
| 07:43.16 | durcyn | let me just check some of the versions out in /usr/lib on a red hat box and see exactly how badly it makes me want to vomit |
| 07:43.19 | Torhal | Anywho, bedtime. |
| 07:43.21 | Subspace | Without the *nix mindset, you have the windows mindest, which leads to evil DLL hell |
| 07:43.23 | jnwhiteh | night night! |
| 07:43.37 | jnwhiteh | Okay |
| 07:43.40 | jnwhiteh | but does that cause an issue? |
| 07:43.44 | jnwhiteh | practically, it doesn't. |
| 07:43.48 | jnwhiteh | or rather |
| 07:43.50 | jnwhiteh | we don't have much of a choice |
| 07:43.59 | karl_w_w | "If you throw an error, users will not use your addon." <- the patient users will just make a ticket |
| 07:44.07 | jnwhiteh | Due to the lack of single package management system (which will not exist) |
| 07:44.10 | karl_w_w | 'wtf the addon is broken fix it' |
| 07:44.27 | Subspace | Actually, LibStub probably is some weird hybrid between win32 and *nix style libs |
| 07:44.39 | jnwhiteh | no, it's pretty much straight win32 |
| 07:44.54 | jnwhiteh | dlls can be upgraded in the same way |
| 07:45.06 | AcidWeb | karl_w_w: There are no patient users. |
| 07:45.06 | Subspace | Well, it seems like almost static linking, but not quite |
| 07:45.15 | jnwhiteh | its purely dynamic linking |
| 07:45.18 | jnwhiteh | not sure why you think its remotely static |
| 07:45.26 | jnwhiteh | When I download MySharewareAddon4.0 |
| 07:45.32 | jnwhiteh | it contains msvc40.dll |
| 07:45.50 | jnwhiteh | that DLL may be loaded, or another more recent minor version of that same DLL may be used |
| 07:45.57 | jnwhiteh | its the same =) |
| 07:46.00 | Subspace | static/dynamic really doesnt make sense anyhow w/ scripted langs |
| 07:46.12 | jnwhiteh | its bundling of dynamic libraries, which is quite different from static libraries |
| 07:46.41 | Subspace | yeah |
| 07:47.13 | jnwhiteh | we have pushed for more functionality in the table of contents file |
| 07:47.20 | jnwhiteh | so that the client can identify libraries and skip loading of older versions |
| 07:47.34 | jnwhiteh | but the complexity required to implement that means it will never happen |
| 07:47.48 | zenzio | "Alka Seltzer is fizzable. Uranium is fissionable. I'd prefer that my leaders knew the difference between the two." -- deGrasse Tyson is awesom |
| 07:47.49 | jnwhiteh | but the ideas have been specced out several times over at this point =) |
| 07:48.12 | karl_w_w | fissionable? |
| 07:48.16 | karl_w_w | wtf is fissionable? |
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| 07:48.17 | zenzio | clearly more awesome than my typing |
| 07:48.40 | zenzio | abilibty to perform fission? |
| 07:48.44 | jnwhiteh | lol |
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| 07:49.42 | karl_w_w | whoa this sounds like science dark arts |
| 07:49.50 | karl_w_w | witch! |
| 07:50.12 | Subspace | BTW, I mean no disrespect for any of you |
| 07:50.28 | jnwhiteh | none taken =) |
| 07:50.37 | jnwhiteh | I was one so bright-eyed and idealistic :P |
| 07:50.38 | Subspace | And thanks for the help jnwhiteh and Torhal :) |
| 07:51.02 | jnwhiteh | you're welcome |
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| 07:57.42 | Subspace | jnwhiteh, Basically libs have to be single file and embeded? |
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| 07:58.24 | jnwhiteh | designed for embedding |
| 07:58.30 | jnwhiteh | that means they can be broken out by a package manager |
| 07:58.33 | jnwhiteh | i think CC used to do this |
| 07:58.42 | jnwhiteh | it allows both |
| 07:59.07 | jnwhiteh | the cost is that you can't treat them like addons, i.e. multi-file is touch |
| 07:59.08 | jnwhiteh | tough |
| 08:03.15 | Subspace | I had an idea before that would have been just a couple lines, but didnt like that :P |
| 08:03.34 | Subspace | Which, I admit was a bit complex |
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| 10:47.30 | Semlar | spaaaaaam |
| 10:53.14 | Fisker | pees on Stanzilla |
| 10:53.17 | Fisker | office 2013 rtm'd |
| 10:53.20 | Stanzilla | nope |
| 10:53.23 | Stanzilla | old |
| 10:53.30 | Semlar | you can't just go around peeing on everyone |
| 10:58.08 | Fisker | yup |
| 10:58.11 | Fisker | and yup Stanzilla |
| 10:58.12 | Fisker | mad? |
| 10:59.35 | Stanzilla | nope |
| 11:00.03 | Stanzilla | sated |
| 11:01.54 | Semlar | salted |
| 11:04.26 | Fisker | mad |
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| 11:55.01 | Vladinator | Torhal after /reload I got: Message: Interface\AddOns\PetTheory\Core.lua:570: Usage: GetPetInfoByID(ID) |
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| 14:15.18 | mikma | https://sites.google.com/site/tinymatrix/ |
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| 14:31.25 | karl_w_w | i cant believe they still havent finished this damn mage bug |
| 14:31.34 | karl_w_w | it's really pissing me off |
| 14:54.48 | *** join/#wowuidev TC-Work (TC@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:feae:2e8b) |
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| 15:01.19 | TC-Work | so upon my door this morning i saw http://images.gammatester.com/pics/8f4612b329b904d9984eb404d2a00209.jpg http://images.gammatester.com/pics/c31e484b4ad05361bc5225211993a083.jpg |
| 15:01.24 | TC-Work | i am most amused |
| 15:02.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Unkle (~Unkle@kv.kistlervineyards.com) |
| 15:02.55 | Corrodias2 | i read the second one first, and knew it was going to be expensive |
| 15:07.59 | TC-Work | yea, but i have to go there at least once |
| 15:10.08 | alestane | gets Lopeppeppy a cup of tea and a PHP reference. |
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| 15:14.20 | Unkle | alestane that's some PHP-level bullshit. |
| 15:14.32 | alestane | ? |
| 15:14.45 | Lopeppeppy | If I had a book to actually review material, the class wouldn't suck AND blow at the same time. |
| 15:15.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (~Kalroth@d40aa5af.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 15:15.17 | Unkle | PHP is my standard for complete, utter, bullshit. If something rises to the level of PHP in bullshit... |
| 15:20.38 | Lopeppeppy | Then my school pays me to take a course to learn to be fluent in bullshit. This is different in *what* way from my art course? :P |
| 15:20.58 | Unkle | Art is not /entirely/ bullshit. |
| 15:21.13 | Lopeppeppy | Oh aye? |
| 15:21.40 | Unkle | Art at least brings some beauty into the world. |
| 15:23.58 | Lopeppeppy | Paychecks are beautiful. |
| 15:24.27 | Unkle | Well then. Snuffle up the bullshit. |
| 15:24.54 | Torhal|work | Vladinator: Apparently some goofiness made it into the latest patch. Don't know what to tell ya :/ |
| 15:25.22 | Lopeppeppy | You're the one who called BS. I'm just quietly studying my brains out. |
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| 15:35.13 | Dagmar | "The relevance to parachute use is that individuals jumping from aircraft without the help of a parachute are likely to have a high prevalence of pre-existing psychiatric morbidity." |
| 15:35.31 | Dagmar | http://www.bmj.com/content/327/7429/1459 <-- Deadpan Skill: It's over 9000! |
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| 15:49.03 | karl_w_w | $11 for a ceasar salad? |
| 15:50.59 | TC-Work | welcome to LA |
| 15:51.45 | Fisker | hey TC-Work |
| 15:51.48 | Fisker | not so hey karl_w_w |
| 15:51.50 | TC-Work | sup Fisker |
| 15:52.17 | karl_w_w | Fisker where do generals keep their armies? |
| 15:52.44 | TC-Work | in other countries |
| 16:07.19 | karl_w_w | how is it my wow ptr folder has size: 36.4gb, size on disk: 18.6gb |
| 16:08.34 | karl_w_w | and why the fuckity did it install on C: when I told it to install on F: |
| 16:09.11 | Lopeppeppy | True love, karl_w_w |
| 16:10.05 | karl_w_w | true rage Lopeppeppy |
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| 16:30.52 | Shirik | you sure it wasn't to blave, Lopeppeppy? |
| 16:32.26 | Unkle | Go through his pockets and look for loose change? |
| 16:32.38 | Lopeppeppy | I'm not a witch, I'm your wife. |
| 16:41.13 | TC-Work | I have to give credit to the dev's behind the new XCOM game, they did a great job of capturing the feeling of the original. |
| 16:41.23 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@unaffiliated/stolenlegacy) |
| 16:43.16 | nicoli_s | never played the original but loving the new one |
| 16:47.10 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@188.177.103.242) |
| 16:49.25 | Arrowmaster | Adys: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWU6XL9xI4k |
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| 17:11.24 | Vladinator | Torhal no problem just wanted to make you aware :D didn't error at login at least ;P |
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| 17:14.19 | Mr_Rabies | ~wowalert |
| 17:14.19 | purl | http://launcher.worldofwarcraft.com/alert (US); http://status.wow-europe.com/en/alert (EU) [NB: Returns empty content unless there is an active alert] |
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| 17:28.55 | *** part/#wowuidev Unkle_ (~Unkle@kv.kistlervineyards.com) |
| 17:32.50 | Lopeppeppy | ~staple Unkle |
| 17:32.50 | purl | ACTION attaches a staple gun to a pneumatic nail gun via duct tape, staples Unkle quite well, and hands Unkle to lopeppeppy |
| 17:33.14 | batrick | ~staple purl |
| 17:33.14 | purl | ACTION attaches a staple gun to a pneumatic nail gun via duct tape, staples purl quite well, and hands purl to batrick |
| 17:33.22 | Lopeppeppy | Hawt. |
| 17:33.31 | batrick | no u |
| 17:34.52 | foxlit | Did they add a slash command for interaction with NPCs yet? |
| 17:35.15 | alestane | I ... think ... so? |
| 17:35.42 | foxlit | It's still only a binding :/ |
| 17:36.46 | foxlit | It'd be nice to have access to InteractUnit as a SABT action. |
| 17:39.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Dridzt (~Miranda@athedsl-199628.home.otenet.gr) |
| 17:39.27 | Mr_Rabies | i'd also settle for every quest hub dismounting everyone |
| 17:39.51 | Mr_Rabies | welp |
| 17:39.59 | Mr_Rabies | pandaria server's down still on my realm |
| 17:40.07 | foxlit | not quite equivalent, Mr_Rabies :( |
| 17:40.16 | Lopeppeppy | blushes pretty for batrick. ...as if. |
| 17:49.34 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 17:51.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~RyanNL@adsl-74-226-95-190.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 17:51.49 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 17:55.58 | Fisker | slaps Lopeppeppy around a bit with a large trout |
| 17:56.25 | Monolit | err why is taint.log getting spammed each time I use some custom created dropdown menu, even outside combat |
| 17:56.29 | Lopeppeppy | Fisker, I will offer you as my Halloween sacrifice to the forces of darkness if you don't watch your tail. |
| 17:56.29 | Monolit | am I missing something |
| 17:56.45 | Fisker | :(? |
| 17:56.55 | Lopeppeppy | Because drop down menus are full of taint and the forces of darkness? |
| 17:57.01 | Seerah | Monolit: because it's the dropdown menu ;) |
| 17:57.26 | Monolit | Seerah: yeah that explains allot :D |
| 17:57.50 | Seerah | tho I like Lopeppeppy's interpretation |
| 17:57.56 | Seerah | huggles Lopeppeppy |
| 17:58.01 | Lopeppeppy | Heya, Seerah. |
| 17:58.52 | Monolit | oh well, fk it, /console taintlog 1 :] |
| 17:59.07 | alestane | I've said for years that the dropdown system is to taint what an open buffet is to the flu. |
| 17:59.31 | Seerah | so we need a sneeze guard for the dropdown menu? |
| 17:59.59 | Esamynn|work | pretty much |
| 18:01.46 | alestane | It has one, actually. That check where if it's running insecurely, it uses a different set of internal tables. It works about as well as a real sneeze guard. |
| 18:02.46 | Primer | Or they could make quest NPCs non-ethereal |
| 18:02.56 | Fisker | what the fuck Stanzilla |
| 18:03.04 | Primer | like they do with the major city pvp vendors |
| 18:04.58 | Dridzt | just a note that /console taintLog 1 will break all global frames that are not assigned to a local variable (including Blizz ones like WorldFrame) |
| 18:05.06 | Fisker | Microsoft makes the most sense of all |
| 18:05.15 | Fisker | Preorder Windows 8 Pro now and save -$30 |
| 18:07.11 | Seerah | save -$30? |
| 18:07.26 | Ressy | yeah... but why would you wanna order windows 8.. Its only decent for phones & tablets. |
| 18:07.44 | Seerah | or touch-screen pcs |
| 18:08.08 | Ressy | Those new all in ones? |
| 18:08.20 | Ressy | yeah, I guess it might be decent for those too.. |
| 18:08.24 | Seerah | not so new, but yes |
| 18:08.53 | Seerah | for a regular pc, I felt like it was more of a novelty when testing it out |
| 18:10.40 | Fisker | http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2012/10/12/reserve-your-copy-of-windows-8-pro-and-pre-order-windows-8-pcs-today.aspx |
| 18:10.46 | Fisker | like that Seerah |
| 18:10.52 | Fisker | it's pretty fucking dumb |
| 18:11.06 | Fisker | and yes i know the preorder is with a physical dvd |
| 18:12.14 | Seerah | o.O |
| 18:16.51 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
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| 18:28.58 | TC-Work | ur dumb Fisker |
| 18:30.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Neffi (~Neffi@pool-173-56-100-105.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 18:30.38 | mckenziemc | ur Fisker TC-Work |
| 18:30.50 | TC-Work | Fisker you mckenziemc |
| 18:34.06 | Shirik | TIL we have an article for this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet_paper_orientation |
| 18:35.01 | Fisker | nope TC-Work |
| 18:37.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Antze (~Antze@87.239.29.1) |
| 18:38.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Blazeflack (~Blaze@4304ds1-nsk.0.fullrate.dk) |
| 18:43.02 | Neffi | Jesus Christ |
| 18:43.25 | Neffi | Does an article on toilet paper orientation need to be that long *and* include mathematical formulae? |
| 18:43.51 | Neffi | What has the world come to? |
| 18:44.01 | Neffi | Everyone knows the toilet paper should be oriented outwards! |
| 18:45.25 | Lopeppeppy | Everyone knows we should have bidet. Bidets? Bidetii? |
| 18:47.15 | Humbedooh | Neffi: it's Knuth....what did you expect? ;) |
| 18:51.48 | TC-Work | Neffi: on the grand scheme of thhings, that instead of killing sounds fine by me. |
| 18:55.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Yoshimo (~Miranda@p5B04C727.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:56.19 | karl_w_w | http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AgDNKtfp_eCdmYFrItmy_7YPCnRG;_ylv=3?qid=20121012060221AAb8yf9 I fuckin love these |
| 18:56.29 | karl_w_w | they're so vague it's hilarious |
| 19:10.28 | Cairenn | A very long, but interesting read: http://www.maa.org/devlin/lockhartslament.pdf |
| 19:12.08 | alestane | Oh, that's Paul Lockhart's essay on math education? |
| 19:12.26 | Cairenn | yep |
| 19:12.38 | alestane | Read that a year or two ago. Very insightful. |
| 19:12.55 | alestane | Actually, there's a quote from it in my Facebook profile. |
| 19:18.22 | Lopeppeppy | All that evil requires to flourish is that a good man do nothing. |
| 19:20.37 | TC-Work | why do i feel that comment is hinting that all women are already evil? |
| 19:20.56 | kd3 | they're not? |
| 19:20.57 | kd3 | >.> |
| 19:21.20 | Lopeppeppy | I believe in the Oxford comma and the neutrality of the word "man" when used in a detached sense such as "mankind". |
| 19:21.29 | Lopeppeppy | Harumph. |
| 19:21.35 | TC-Work | by kd3, i think you are a dead man now |
| 19:21.41 | TC-Work | bye* |
| 19:21.43 | kd3 | now? |
| 19:21.50 | TC-Work | you are already dead? |
| 19:22.00 | kd3 | I've been marked for death for a long time |
| 19:22.09 | Lopeppeppy | He's been a revenant since the first time he crossed Cairenn before she had her coffee. |
| 19:22.12 | alestane | It's already been proven, kd3. |
| 19:22.18 | TC-Work | yes, by being born |
| 19:22.24 | alestane | Girls = money * time. |
| 19:22.30 | alestane | Time = money. |
| 19:22.43 | alestane | Therefore, Girls = money * money. |
| 19:23.02 | Cairenn | >< |
| 19:23.20 | alestane | Also, money = √evil |
| 19:23.24 | kd3 | and since money is sqrt(evil), girls=evil. >.> |
| 19:23.34 | foxlit | but that's a blatant misquote |
| 19:23.43 | Lopeppeppy | Alestane. Do not make me send you a letter bomb. |
| 19:23.49 | alestane | It's, the love of money is the root of all evil, but that doesn't fit. |
| 19:24.10 | Cairenn | fuck a letter bomb Lopeppeppy, he's scrawny enough that we can just beat him to death |
| 19:24.13 | alestane | OH, but it's such a marvelous evil, Lopeppeppy |
| 19:24.45 | Lopeppeppy | I wouldn't resort to violence, Cairenn, when a detached assassination keeps me inside where it's warm. |
| 19:24.52 | Lopeppeppy | In case you hadn't noticed, winter is coming! |
| 19:24.53 | Cairenn | point |
| 19:24.57 | TC-Work | Isn't that also violence? |
| 19:25.51 | Cairenn | speaking of winter, frost warning for tonight, need to go turn off and drain the taps. |
| 19:27.33 | Lopeppeppy | Yup. Down below freezing here, even, which is odd for this early in October. But if it warms up again afterward, that's some AWESOME leaf color there. |
| 19:27.52 | TC-Work | I got 2 flash flood warnings from my phone yesterday. I wish i had a way to manage those things. |
| 19:29.08 | alestane | We may be getting a frost tonight here, too, IIRC. |
| 19:30.06 | Lopeppeppy | Apparently it's snowing up home today. My cousin is trying to catch some photos, but it's too light a flurry to show up on his phone. While he's driving. Crazy bastich. |
| 19:30.42 | alestane | Yeah, while driving => not such a good idea. |
| 19:32.35 | Lopeppeppy | I said he was a fruitbat. |
| 19:39.57 | *** join/#wowuidev znf (~ibm86@188.173.175.180) |
| 19:41.37 | alestane | ...ERIC the fruitbat? |
| 19:47.03 | Lopeppeppy | Roberto. Like from Island of the Sequined Love Nun. |
| 19:51.08 | alestane | ...Island of the ...do I even want to know? |
| 19:53.06 | TC-Work | I suspect you would |
| 19:53.22 | TC-Work | you may not be able to walk properly after however. |
| 19:55.24 | Lopeppeppy | Christoper Moore. Read him. I demand it. |
| 19:56.27 | alestane | I noticed you did, Peppy. |
| 19:56.36 | alestane | And we have a fairly good library here. |
| 19:57.20 | karl_w_w | i hate it when you forget an actor's name |
| 19:57.23 | Lopeppeppy | Totally check it out. ILL if you gotta. I recommend starting with Coyote Blue, or Lamb, or Fluke. |
| 19:57.38 | alestane | Right now, I am just holding off on any new reading until I get better caught up with the book I'm writing, and things are organized enough after the move that I''m unlikely to lose a library book. |
| 19:58.02 | alestane | We're on C/W MARS, somebody in the area should have it. |
| 19:59.14 | Lopeppeppy | http://www.chrismoore.com/books.html - for serious, you guys. |
| 19:59.24 | alestane | It does say there's a copy available at our library. |
| 19:59.26 | Lopeppeppy | Seerah, you might think that Fool is amusing. |
| 19:59.34 | karl_w_w | Lopeppeppy how can I remember this actor's name without cheating? :( |
| 20:01.04 | Lopeppeppy | Um, you can look up a movie s/he was in. That's not cheating, it's research. |
| 20:01.20 | karl_w_w | that is cheating I want to remember myself :( |
| 20:01.34 | karl_w_w | this is not some small time actor |
| 20:03.41 | karl_w_w | this is stupid, in my head i can name a whole bunch of his roles, and the movies they were in, and the actress he often works with and her roles, and the director he often works with |
| 20:03.43 | karl_w_w | but not him |
| 20:04.07 | Lopeppeppy | Hmm. Picture him on the cover of those stupid tabloids... what's the headline? |
| 20:04.26 | karl_w_w | i dont pay any attention to newspapers :P |
| 20:04.29 | karl_w_w | and i cheated |
| 20:04.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Subspace (~Andrew@static-50-53-54-67.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net) |
| 20:04.37 | Lopeppeppy | well for craker's sake |
| 20:04.43 | Coote | who was it, then? |
| 20:04.51 | karl_w_w | johnny depp |
| 20:05.19 | Coote | oh, an easy way for that one. Who does Tim Burton cast in every movie? |
| 20:05.42 | karl_w_w | :P |
| 20:07.21 | Lopeppeppy | Who is Helena Bonham Carter attached at the hip to? |
| 20:09.52 | alestane | Burton. |
| 20:10.05 | karl_w_w | Who surprised everyone who knows nothing about theatre when he started singing? |
| 20:10.10 | alestane | ALthough I seem to recall reading that she used to date Depp. |
| 20:10.47 | alestane | Coyote Blue looks kind of like Matt Ruff's Fool on the Hill at a casual glance, Peppy, which I did enjoy considerably. |
| 20:10.58 | alestane | I'll try to read it sooner than later. |
| 20:15.32 | kd3 | whee, Pandaria Dungeon Hero. only took 3 weeks |
| 20:18.12 | *** join/#wowuidev mast` (~Alex@modemcable158.196-70-69.static.videotron.ca) |
| 20:22.04 | Gnarfoz | good on you |
| 20:27.23 | Fisker | lol kd3 |
| 20:27.24 | Fisker | so slow |
| 20:27.42 | Fisker | however Stanzilla |
| 20:28.09 | Stanzilla | hi |
| 20:32.06 | *** join/#wowuidev mast` (~Alex@unaffiliated/mast/x-9924406) |
| 20:32.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Semlar (~chatzilla@72.188.127.100) |
| 20:33.23 | Fisker | hi Stanzilla |
| 20:33.25 | Fisker | did you lol? |
| 20:33.26 | Fisker | i lol'd |
| 20:39.44 | Stanzilla | nope |
| 20:39.45 | Stanzilla | not yet |
| 20:39.48 | Stanzilla | why should I |
| 20:40.30 | Adys | http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/10/author-blizzard-proposed-a-portable-diablo-prequel/ |
| 20:40.32 | Adys | shivers |
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| 20:42.36 | *** join/#wowuidev purl (~purl@rikers.org) |
| 20:42.36 | *** topic/#wowuidev is http://pastebin.com || 5.0.x ToC: 50001 || #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting || Battletags: http://goo.gl/2bm7n || |
| 20:45.22 | Fisker | because Stanzilla |
| 20:45.32 | Fisker | http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2012/10/12/reserve-your-copy-of-windows-8-pro-and-pre-order-windows-8-pcs-today.aspx |
| 20:45.34 | Fisker | that's why Stanzilla |
| 20:46.08 | Stanzilla | meh |
| 20:48.08 | Fisker | meh indeed |
| 20:48.12 | Fisker | mad? |
| 20:49.11 | Stanzilla | nope |
| 20:51.54 | Fisker | damn you're pretty mad |
| 21:06.22 | TC-Work | All of the PSU's i used to get could switch between US/EU voltages, is that not the case anymore? |
| 21:06.37 | nevcairiel | most can transparently do it |
| 21:06.46 | nevcairiel | at least the good ones |
| 21:06.55 | nevcairiel | a PSU with an actual switch on the back is rather rare now |
| 21:07.53 | TC-Work | "Input Voltage: 100 ~ 240 V" so that means it passively switches? |
| 21:08.11 | TC-Work | and you just needto have the correct cable |
| 21:08.17 | nevcairiel | sounds like it |
| 21:08.17 | kd3 | yah |
| 21:08.22 | TC-Work | ok, thanks |
| 21:13.06 | mckenziemc | "Woman, smoking while on oxygen, sets herself on fire" "'Oxygen is 100 percent flammable,' [El Medio Fire Chief Rusty Ohlhausen] said." |
| 21:13.28 | kd3 | rolls his eyes |
| 21:13.49 | *** join/#wowuidev brykryss (~chatzilla@cpc2-craw2-0-0-cust1299.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 21:13.53 | nevcairiel | butbutbut, oxygen is not flammable |
| 21:14.19 | Fisker | most education computer's psu still come with the switch |
| 21:14.34 | kd3 | because those pcs use minspec components |
| 21:14.39 | Fisker | nah |
| 21:14.49 | kd3 | and they want more money when miscreants flip the switch and blow them up |
| 21:14.49 | Fisker | because Dell likes charging 200€ to replace it :) |
| 21:15.13 | nevcairiel | that happens way too often |
| 21:15.42 | Subspace | jnwhiteh, So I just checked and more people than I expected downloaded my addons, but a few more downloaded w/o lib :| |
| 21:16.05 | *** join/#wowuidev chrippa (~chrippa@tanuki.se) |
| 21:16.05 | Subspace | I'm going to use libstub and just embed the lib |
| 21:16.07 | Fisker | i had started to remove them physically from the PSU |
| 21:16.16 | Fisker | but was told not to because what if they stuck something in there |
| 21:16.18 | Fisker | QQ moar |
| 21:16.21 | Subspace | Where should I put libstub? with my lib? |
| 21:20.36 | durcyn | best practice is to bundle it then put your lib in a subdirectory so scm checkouts for embeds don't have to include an extra copy of libstub |
| 21:21.06 | Subspace | durcyn, I have two addons currently, one my lib, one the main |
| 21:21.17 | Subspace | Which addon should have libstub w/ it? |
| 21:22.32 | Subspace | What happens if there is no .toc file? Does it just not show up? *brb testing* |
| 21:22.50 | Subspace | If that is the case, I will just bundle libstub w/ the main addon, and delete .toc from library |
| 21:22.54 | durcyn | you bundle it with the library so it can be loaded standalone |
| 21:23.01 | Subspace | Hmm I see |
| 21:23.13 | durcyn | and embed libstub and the library subdirectory with the addon so it can be loaded embedded |
| 21:23.33 | Subspace | What should my dir sturcture of the main addon look like? |
| 21:23.45 | Subspace | Addon/Libs/MyLib/Libs/LibStub.lua? |
| 21:23.49 | durcyn | whatever you want it to look like |
| 21:24.19 | durcyn | usually it's addons/libs/LibStub/LibStub.lua and addon/libs/LibFoo/etc |
| 21:24.54 | Subspace | Right, but if I bundle w/ LibFoo, then libstub needs to be in LibFoo's dir structure, right? |
| 21:27.50 | Fisker | durcyn |
| 21:33.01 | mckenziemc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:33.05 | mckenziemc | fails. |
| 21:33.10 | durcyn | you're missing points again. libstub just needs to be loaded, not each copy of libstub from each lib |
| 21:34.04 | Subspace | Suppose the only addon they have is mine. I need to supply libstub w/ either the main addon or my lib |
| 21:35.12 | durcyn | i'm not sure how much more clear i can be than: include libstub in the library, but embed both libstub and the library in the addon. |
| 21:35.15 | Torhal|work | Subspace: For the AddOn, LibStub would typically be in the libs dir with your other libs. |
| 21:35.17 | TC-Work | ~epic fail mckenziemc |
| 21:35.18 | purl | mckenziemc, you have failed in such a spectacular way that one thousand years from now people will tell their children stories about a failure so great that it eclipsed every success from that period of time. And you mckenziemc, you are that epic failure. |
| 21:35.27 | Torhal|work | For the standalone lib, it would be in the lib's toc |
| 21:35.48 | Torhal|work | (Well, loaded from there) |
| 21:35.55 | Torhal|work | But it would be in its dir structure. |
| 21:36.01 | Torhal|work | Either way, you always have it. |
| 21:36.03 | Subspace | Is there a way to make it pull just the MyLib.lua file into the structure of the main addon? |
| 21:36.16 | durcyn | that's why i said put it in a subdirectory |
| 21:36.51 | durcyn | with svn at least you can do a checkout on the subdirectory and avoid doubling up on libstub and including the unneeded .toc |
| 21:37.43 | Subspace | I was thinking about using the .pkgmeta file to have it pull the lib right before building the zip |
| 21:37.57 | Torhal|work | That's the main purpose. |
| 21:38.32 | Subspace | All i see in the docs is allowing you too pull MyLib into a subdir of MyAddon |
| 21:38.49 | Subspace | Can I pull just one file from a repo instead? |
| 21:39.13 | Subspace | Or if that is non-standard, how do most people do that? |
| 21:39.32 | Subspace | For example, is there a repo I can pull from real quick to use as an example for how to set that up? :) |
| 21:42.39 | Fisker | Torhal|work |
| 21:44.08 | Torhal|work | Fisker |
| 21:44.22 | Torhal|work | goes home. |
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| 22:17.09 | Ackis | http://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/11c18c/the_growing_divide_in_world_of_warcraft_websites/c6lbqkm <-- some jackass defending wow matrix |
| 22:17.41 | TC-Work | lots of people did that |
| 22:19.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Ressy (~Ressy@unaffiliated/ressy) |
| 22:21.22 | bleeter | mmm caek http://i.imgur.com/h9bIg.jpg |
| 22:26.27 | Ressy | Better cake: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/vtef9yp2c6lz8bi/AgFfu2UfHa |
| 22:28.09 | TC-Work | micky with a sunburn? |
| 22:28.19 | Ressy | lol. essentially. |
| 22:28.33 | Ressy | My dad baked it for my son's 3rd birthday on Sunday :) |
| 22:28.38 | TC-Work | Also, arent his ears supposed to be on the top of his head? |
| 22:29.06 | TC-Work | i bet your kid was thrilled |
| 22:29.22 | Ressy | he hasn't seen it yet |
| 22:29.33 | TC-Work | oh, next sunday |
| 22:29.48 | Ressy | 14th. :) |
| 22:30.03 | TC-Work | well then, i bet he will be thrilled. |
| 22:30.17 | Ressy | Definitely :) |
| 22:32.52 | Fisker | finally exalted with dem tillers |
| 22:32.56 | Fisker | another faction that can fuck off |
| 22:33.01 | Ressy | lol |
| 22:33.18 | Fisker | yeah it's kinda ironic we do all this work to become best friends with someone just so we can tell them to fuck off |
| 22:33.18 | Fisker | :P |
| 22:34.01 | TC-Work | I want the tell them to fuck off as soon as i meet them |
| 22:34.09 | TC-Work | but then i feel like that for most people |
| 22:37.00 | sintAcks | i should have never left AcidWeb give me a month of curse prem |
| 22:37.22 | cogwheel | Fisker: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO |
| 22:37.35 | Sintacks | Fisker mad |
| 22:37.46 | cogwheel | i have to get comcast again QQQQ |
| 22:38.44 | TC-Work | are you moving cogwheel? |
| 22:38.59 | cogwheel | i'm halfway moved. we spent the night at our new place last night |
| 22:39.08 | TC-Work | what about phone options? |
| 22:39.22 | cogwheel | we just use our cells |
| 22:39.33 | TC-Work | I mean an an ISP |
| 22:40.10 | cogwheel | at&t can't hook up until the 25th, and offers lower speeds for similar price |
| 22:40.17 | TC-Work | bah |
| 22:40.52 | TC-Work | no u-verse? |
| 22:40.55 | cogwheel | our current u-verse speed isn't available there, the next lowest tier wants a $50 installation fee, but the tier below that (too damn slow) can be self-installed |
| 22:40.59 | cogwheel | none of it makes sense |
| 22:41.10 | cogwheel | the self-install can't be done until the 25th either |
| 22:41.45 | cogwheel | i have no idea how that work |
| 22:41.46 | TC-Work | interesting, i did not know cable has cought up to fiber(ish) |
| 22:41.58 | TC-Work | caught* |
| 22:42.06 | cogwheel | i think it's more that u-verse hasn't quite caught up in our neighborhood |
| 22:43.02 | cogwheel | why would 12mbps service be self-installable, but not 18mbps service? |
| 22:43.13 | cogwheel | and why would self-install be unavailable until the same day as technician install? |
| 22:43.17 | cogwheel | FU at&t |
| 22:47.35 | Sintacks | so.. someone i know from IRC, but wasn't really friends with left me SoR them and i payed for a month of their game time to get the mount... |
| 22:47.41 | Sintacks | and now they keep sending me random lock boxes |
| 22:47.45 | Sintacks | is it wrong of me to not send them back |
| 22:47.54 | Sintacks | cuz he hasn't once said "open and send back please" or anything |
| 22:48.53 | foxlit | are you a rogue? |
| 22:49.03 | Sintacks | yes |
| 22:49.22 | foxlit | trick question, it's actually irrelevant. |
| 22:49.41 | foxlit | if you're not a rogue, there's no expectation that you can open it, so it must be a gift |
| 22:49.52 | foxlit | if you're a rogue, you're clearly a jerk, so what do you care? :) |
| 22:51.16 | foxlit | that marks the end of a rogues-are-sneaky-backstabbers-that-ambush-while-you're-eating-at-quarter-health joke. |
| 23:01.57 | TC-Work | Don't eat in ganking territory |
| 23:02.58 | mckenziemc | don't gank in eating territory |
| 23:03.11 | Humbedooh | don't mckenziemc in...anywhere |
| 23:03.51 | mckenziemc | dies. |
| 23:03.57 | Humbedooh | :( |
| 23:04.04 | Humbedooh | ): |
| 23:06.54 | g0urra | so is there a way to not make people add you as battletag friend without having your battletag? |
| 23:06.57 | mckenziemc | .. |
| 23:06.57 | mckenziemc | <PROTECTED> |
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| 23:08.30 | Humbedooh | you and your utf8.... |
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| 23:17.31 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 23:32.05 | Sintacks | http://i.qkme.me/3rbdbm.jpg |
| 23:34.11 | Iriel | Sintacks: except there's been a working draft since 2008, and it's been in development since a while before |
| 23:35.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Semlar (~chatzilla@72.188.127.100) |
| 23:37.09 | Torhal | Iriel: But…all memes are based in educated fact! |
| 23:38.07 | Iriel | Torhal: Propagated by those who do their homework? |
| 23:38.13 | Sintacks | Iriel, not the point. |
| 23:38.17 | Sintacks | also |
| 23:38.18 | Sintacks | D: |
| 23:38.39 | Torhal | Indeed. |
| 23:38.41 | Torhal | sleeps/ |
| 23:38.45 | Iriel | Sintacks: I fail to see what the point was then |
| 23:40.20 | Iriel | Anyone qualified for that hypothetical job would have known that the term "HTML5" has been in active use for longer than 3 years |
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| 23:40.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Liath (~Liath@unaffiliated/liath) |
| 23:40.53 | Iriel | I would agree that asking for 3 years experience is somewhat aggressive |
| 23:42.02 | Iriel | Changing the subject completely - Is Dishonored worth buying? |
| 23:43.32 | kd3 | I keep hearing good things about it |
| 23:43.36 | kd3 | another quick topic change |
| 23:43.44 | kd3 | grr, let me copy my main to the ptr, bnet |
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| 23:51.54 | Iriel | My concern is that most of the unfavorable reviews have a fairly convincing quality to them |
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| 23:52.51 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
