| 00:00.45 | *** join/#wowuidev TC-Work (~palewitz@99-50-80-110.lightspeed.lsanca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 00:05.08 | TC-Work | ~ping |
| 00:05.09 | purl | ~pong |
| 00:24.25 | TC-Work | it is so dead in here |
| 00:24.38 | Azelphur | does the carlton dance |
| 00:24.50 | Azelphur | (^ Child of the 90's joke) |
| 00:26.18 | *** join/#wowuidev mckenziemc (~Mark@dialup-4.246.251.46.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net) |
| 00:32.52 | *** join/#wowuidev |Jelly| (~|Jelly|@c-98-207-160-238.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 00:39.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Sum_Wun (~sum_wun@cpe-173-175-88-159.stx.res.rr.com) |
| 00:44.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Nechckn (~N@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Admin/Nechckn) |
| 00:44.05 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Nechckn] by ChanServ |
| 00:47.16 | *** part/#wowuidev mckenziemc (~Mark@dialup-4.246.251.46.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net) |
| 00:57.27 | Kraps | is skypes pricing really $10 for 3.8 minutes or $8.52 for 3 months? |
| 00:57.30 | Kraps | because thats wtf |
| 01:02.38 | Azelphur | Kraps: this is why we use VOIP, I'm a local call from practically anywhere in the world, and it's all free \o/ |
| 01:03.19 | Kraps | i dont mind the $8.52 for 3 months thing actually |
| 01:03.26 | Azelphur | *shrug* |
| 01:04.15 | Kraps | is VOIP a phone company thing? |
| 01:04.45 | Azelphur | Kraps: VOIP/SIP is Voice over IP / Session initialisation protocol. It's not a specific company it's a term encompassing the whole technology |
| 01:05.15 | Azelphur | Kraps: basically, get yourself a voip/sip provider (I may be able to name a good one if you tell me what country your in) and then you use a breakin service to let people call you from anywhere for free :D |
| 01:06.08 | Azelphur | VOIP/SIP is like the open source telephony protocol, so you can do all sorts of fun stuff with it. If your geeky you can set up stuff like me where certain people can send me a command in PM, and it'll make my mobile phone ring. |
| 01:06.20 | Azelphur | Also, my mobile phone is (optionally) a local landline call. |
| 01:06.31 | Kraps | i'm in the us |
| 01:06.54 | Kraps | *shrug* |
| 01:07.06 | Azelphur | Kraps: http://www.sipgate.com/one I use the UK version of these guys :D |
| 01:07.11 | Azelphur | They are quite good |
| 01:08.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Dark_Elf (~Dark_Elf@h184-61-56-118.wdrnin.dsl.dynamic.tds.net) |
| 01:08.06 | Nechckn | Especially since most companies ship you to VOIP, anyway, these days. |
| 01:08.14 | Azelphur | Indeed :P |
| 01:08.43 | Nechckn | I thought dedicated was much, much better, but, whatever. a bit better than cell - usually. |
| 01:09.01 | *** join/#wowuidev zm (~zm@60.166.96.100) |
| 01:09.26 | Kraps | it costs to call though |
| 01:09.54 | Kraps | also they ran out of numbers in my area :p |
| 01:10.03 | Azelphur | Kraps: it costs to call landlines/mobiles yes, it doesn't cost to call other VOIP users |
| 01:10.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaylin (~Kaylin@c-67-201-212-12.reshall.wwu.edu) |
| 01:10.43 | Kraps | i dont know any VOIP users |
| 01:10.57 | Nechckn | We use ooma, which is quite decent - better quality than what was bundled with comcast - from a quality pov. |
| 01:10.58 | Azelphur | Yea you do *wave* |
| 01:11.03 | Kraps | hehe |
| 01:11.07 | Azelphur | and that guy |
| 01:11.31 | Azelphur | Nechckn: you can probably advise him better on US providers, as I'm from the UK :D |
| 01:12.01 | Kraps | its alright |
| 01:12.04 | Kraps | thanks |
| 01:12.14 | Nechckn | Eh, it is all relative to a given area. But, yeah, I mean 'basic' telco here in DC is at least $8/month with only local calling available. |
| 01:12.45 | Nechckn | So, the pricing works out well for a 'home' line. Or you can just go all cell and skip the rest. |
| 01:13.37 | Azelphur | I just use sipgate (Free) for incoming calls over my mobiles data plan, \o/ |
| 01:14.09 | Dagmar | Many, many US users have gone to only having a cell phone |
| 01:14.44 | Nechckn | I would guarantee that a lot of folks you know use voip, too, Kraps - most likely do not know it. |
| 01:14.51 | Dagmar | I blame the market's inability to actually exploit the technology they have to it's fullest |
| 01:15.11 | Dagmar | By now we should be able to just plug our phones into ouor PCs and make calls and send SMS through them. |
| 01:15.38 | Azelphur | Dagmar: I can do the SMS part without plugging into my PC |
| 01:15.44 | Dagmar | ...and the price difference between a land-line and "basic" cell service is pretty much zero in most areas |
| 01:15.47 | Azelphur | The phone part annoys the hell out of it |
| 01:15.51 | Azelphur | of me* |
| 01:16.03 | Dagmar | Azelphur: Yeah but they barely ever mention that you can do that |
| 01:16.14 | Azelphur | It's extra annoying because a PC is perfectly capable of emulating a bluetooth headset and it'd do it perfectly |
| 01:16.28 | Azelphur | there was even a project that achieved it, it's just been left unmaintained and unfinished/buggy |
| 01:16.33 | Azelphur | :( |
| 01:16.44 | Dagmar | I mean, honestly. If I have my cell phone on a USB connector and an SMS comes in, it should just be able to go through the usual desktop notification system as if it were the simple peripheral that it is, and appear on the corner of my screen |
| 01:17.23 | Dagmar | Azelphur: Sadly, the bluetooth thing fell apart when cell providers realized that they could not get away with disabling the features just to sell them back to the user at a premium |
| 01:17.52 | Dagmar | Motorola was the place that broke down. Verizon, IIRC, got beat _hard_ in court over that |
| 01:17.59 | Azelphur | Dagmar: that's at least one of the cool things in the UK, all providers are legally required to use GSM on the same frequency, so any phone works on any network |
| 01:18.06 | Azelphur | So it's highly competative |
| 01:18.21 | Dagmar | They'd been running ads jointly with Motorola bout all the cool things Bluetooth can do, and then they shipped a phone with almost all of it disabled unless you paid them extra |
| 01:18.33 | Azelphur | haha |
| 01:18.54 | Dagmar | Yeah, this is why yer phone won't generally do a simple picture or file transmission over Bluetooth when it damn well should |
| 01:19.37 | Dagmar | Between bluetooth and NFC by now you should be able to just bump cell phones together to exchange contact info |
| 01:19.49 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 01:20.10 | Dagmar | ...but the carriers got slapped for trying to charge people for a "service" that ultimately, they didn't do a damn thing to provide, so now they try to pretend it doesn't exist. |
| 01:20.11 | Kaylin | you mean exchange data directly? but what if my phone gets a p2p transmited disease |
| 01:20.32 | Dagmar | kaylin: A 12-year old would have little problem writing code that could take less than a K of data safely |
| 01:20.35 | Azelphur | Dagmar: at least android is part of the solution with these things :P |
| 01:20.42 | Dagmar | Azelphur: yes. Absolutely. |
| 01:20.53 | Kaylin | worries about her phone having sex with strange cell-phones. |
| 01:21.09 | Azelphur | as I say, in UK I just bought an Android phone, and I pay £10/mo for unlimited data and a token gesture of minutes |
| 01:21.11 | Azelphur | job done :D |
| 01:22.02 | Dagmar | In the US, unless you get aggressive with the carriers until you find one of the (few) reasonable pay-by-the-month companies, that will cost you upwards of $75/month |
| 01:22.15 | Azelphur | yea, it's crazy |
| 01:22.42 | Arrowmaster | mines something like $100/month with 3 phones on the plan |
| 01:22.42 | Dagmar | I like how AT&T even released a statement at one point practically glowing with pride that you as a customer were allowed to use wireless IP on the iPhone on your home network unlimited and they wouldn't charge you anything. |
| 01:23.03 | Dagmar | Like, "Yay! I can use my own resources for something I already paid for for free!" |
| 01:23.56 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: but thats false advertising, how can they guaranty its unlimited |
| 01:24.04 | Dagmar | Hell, I'd _pay_ the $65/month at this point (that's with a discount) for limited data on a "smart phone" if they didn't have these absolutely retarded contract details forbidding complete control of the phone to the end-user. |
| 01:24.25 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: I'm sure they'd give you the money you didn't pay them back immediately if there was a problem |
| 01:25.02 | Dagmar | ...but with the exception of the month-to-month people youo have to pay $10/month for no other reason than you bought a fancy phone, and you're _required_ to have a data plan regardless |
| 01:25.30 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: i bought a nexus s and have complete control over it because its a nexus, the problem though is that i didnt get the prebundled apps on it that let you use attwifi hotspots for free because its a nexus |
| 01:25.42 | Dagmar | ...and basically, no. I'm not having something in my pocket that is connected to their _insecure_ network at all times without a pretty extensive set of security controls and a firewall on it. |
| 01:25.53 | Kaylin | given an amount of data x, and unlimited time, there is no limit b st you could not transfer x data in unlimited time, I therefore present the 1kb/year unlimited data plan. We'll transfer as big a file as you like... very slowly. |
| 01:25.57 | Dagmar | ...and I can't have those things without rooting the device, which means I can't take on the contract obligations in good faith. |
| 01:26.34 | Dagmar | Kaylin: That's pretty much what SMS is |
| 01:26.44 | Arrowmaster | didnt realize there was anything in my contract preventing me from rooting |
| 01:26.50 | Dagmar | They're the absolute lowest priority for transmission on the cell network |
| 01:27.23 | Azelphur | Dagmar: I remember when T-Mobile did a press release here saying that they'd lowered their allowance from 3GB to 500MB, and that if you wanted to watch video or do downloads, save it till you got home |
| 01:27.30 | Azelphur | I phoned them up and trolled the living fuck out of them, then switched |
| 01:27.48 | Dagmar | I dont' blame you considering how often their commercials show someone standing at a bus stop watching some video feed |
| 01:28.00 | Kaylin | "I live at work, you just said I could watch movies here" |
| 01:28.07 | Kaylin | but no wait! |
| 01:28.15 | Dagmar | Yeah one movie and bang you're over the limit |
| 01:28.20 | Azelphur | haha |
| 01:28.23 | Azelphur | Yea, it was hilarious |
| 01:28.29 | Azelphur | I'm like "Why don't I just not buy a phone at all?" |
| 01:28.35 | Dagmar | You may watch amusing cat videos. Possibly as many as two a day. |
| 01:28.35 | Azelphur | "heck, the phone call can wait till I get home" |
| 01:28.46 | Azelphur | XD |
| 01:29.07 | Arrowmaster | the only good thing about when they pull shit like that is you can legally get your of your contract without any cancellation fees |
| 01:29.23 | Arrowmaster | s/your/out/ |
| 01:29.40 | Kaylin | "I decline" contract done! |
| 01:30.00 | Dagmar | The only problem there is that you're immediately without service. |
| 01:30.16 | Dagmar | ...and good luck using that phone with any other carrier but Cricket for anything. |
| 01:30.20 | Azelphur | Arrowmaster: indeed, so many people left they backpeddled so fast |
| 01:30.41 | Azelphur | I had some high up manager call me and tell me that multiple news agencies were wrong and they never implemented such a policy |
| 01:30.43 | Azelphur | xD |
| 01:30.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Xuerian (~core@64.203.145.41) |
| 01:31.03 | Dagmar | Frankly I think they should get slapped with RICO charges just for monopolizing cell phone distribution |
| 01:31.15 | Azelphur | Yea, USA is a serious monopoly |
| 01:31.18 | Dagmar | Half the phones out can't be purchased new outright |
| 01:31.20 | Azelphur | It's ridiculous |
| 01:31.42 | Nechckn | Likely about as likely as seeing RICO used on the 'too big to fail' banks who do the same sort of fixing. |
| 01:31.49 | Kaylin | lfr group |
| 01:31.51 | Kaylin | we just wiped |
| 01:31.56 | Arrowmaster | i envy the EU situation on being able to use any phone on any carrier without issues |
| 01:31.58 | Kaylin | on trash prior to ultraxion |
| 01:31.59 | Nechckn | likely, likely, likely =) |
| 01:32.03 | Kaylin | not ultraxion, the trash |
| 01:32.10 | Dagmar | Ah it happens |
| 01:32.44 | Dagmar | If you don't all know _why_ it happened and at least one chance you missed to recover, _then_ you've got a problem |
| 01:33.06 | Dagmar | HOpefully the problem isn't "insufficient deeps" |
| 01:33.31 | Xuerian | Arrowmaster: 100% that |
| 01:34.16 | Dagmar | I'd pay EU fees with a smile on my face. |
| 01:34.27 | Xuerian | Our carriers get to play off specific phones instead of prices and network performance |
| 01:34.45 | Arrowmaster | having 4 major carriers on different techs/freqs sucks, and everybody except those 4 major carriers just leases access to one of the major 4 |
| 01:34.50 | Dagmar | Customer loyalty on that would be easy for me. |
| 01:37.00 | Dagmar | I suspect hte main reason companies like Boost can rent airtime, not require onerous contracts, and still provide service, is that they're not spending tons of money on lobbyist whores and ridiculous ad campaigns |
| 01:37.46 | Arrowmaster | ive been an att customer for 10+ years mostly because of the pita to switch and we got a decent plan for 3 phones thats hard to beat |
| 01:38.16 | Dagmar | I've stuck with the carrier I use for five+ years now because they have signal repeaters on campus |
| 01:39.07 | Arrowmaster | it was rather shocking when i went to blizzcon and didnt have any wifi access, even in the middle of a convention full of geeks with smartphones, i was getting better data speeds than i do here in ohio when im away from wifi |
| 01:40.01 | Dagmar | They probably had a few dedicated cells mounted nearby |
| 01:40.19 | Arrowmaster | i think its more that they dont care about data speeds here |
| 01:40.23 | Dagmar | Around here, if a "something" happens like sudden, inclement weather right at the start of rush hour, the cell phone system can't handle it |
| 01:40.55 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: The number of people there in such a small space would normally overwhelm the towers in other places |
| 01:42.54 | Arrowmaster | well it was overwhelming them, right before the opening ceremony i got dropped from HSDPA to UMTS then down to EDGE |
| 01:43.48 | Arrowmaster | but for most the weekend my data speeds were so much better than i expected |
| 01:44.31 | TC-Work | well, i know that the area is saturated with towers by default because of malls, disney, convention center, etc. |
| 01:44.39 | Dagmar | Probably because for a convention center they could justify running some decent fiber connections to their land networks |
| 01:45.26 | Dagmar | it's not particularly more expensive to run twenty fiber connections than two |
| 01:45.41 | Dagmar | The connecting equipment is the only real challenge there |
| 01:45.50 | TC-Work | You could always poke your FSP, but i doubt blizzcon is big enough to get a mobile cart out there like CES |
| 01:46.07 | Dagmar | So there's a point at which running a data network has a definitely plateau of performance which runs wide and strong |
| 01:47.10 | Dagmar | We originally linked the campus to the med center with two strands of fiber |
| 01:47.45 | Dagmar | Then they made an upgrade to six pair, and then realized we were doing it the wrong way |
| 01:47.56 | Dagmar | We put in seventy-five pairs of fiber |
| 01:48.04 | kd3 | whistles |
| 01:48.12 | Dagmar | Haven't had to throw down anymore in about five years |
| 01:48.38 | Dagmar | It's just mainly a matter of fiber cabling not being terribly expensive compared to the man hours and equipment required to bury it |
| 01:49.36 | TC-Work | sure, if whomever you work for is smart about it. |
| 01:49.43 | Arrowmaster | ok downloaded the speedtest.net app to my phone and disabled wifi, 2421/339 kbps with a ping of 293ms |
| 01:50.16 | Dagmar | That thing is dreadfully slanted to favor providers |
| 01:50.27 | Dagmar | It's not their fault, but it's still annoying |
| 01:50.56 | TC-Work | how is it slanted? |
| 01:51.09 | TC-Work | every comparison i have ever done, it matches |
| 01:51.18 | Dagmar | Well, let's take Comcast's "Speed Boost" that's the default on residential services in most places |
| 01:51.19 | Arrowmaster | its the providers that use things like 'turboboost' or 'powerboost' whatever they want to call it where the first so much of a connection is unlimited that slants it |
| 01:51.36 | TC-Work | oh, so not the site itself....ok |
| 01:51.53 | Dagmar | The first 10Mb of any connection basically gets to bypass and in some cases take higher priority than normal traffic, so it'll go really, really fast. |
| 01:52.02 | Dagmar | After that, you get dumped into the "best effort" service bucket |
| 01:52.19 | Arrowmaster | for a proper test you would need to have a large file to download and only measure from 30MB to the end or so |
| 01:52.46 | Dagmar | So you generally don't _ever_ see the results of that kind of throttling from the tests Speedtest does, nor would be it reasonable/sensible to try to force a gigabyte of traffic over to see the _real_ picture |
| 01:53.10 | Dagmar | Honestly, Speedtest is convinced I've got 12Mb down |
| 01:53.11 | Arrowmaster | for roadrunner last i noticed the first 20MB was unlimited and after that it would instantly drop down to the cap for your plan |
| 01:53.20 | Dagmar | The only thing I've _ever_ seen that on is Steam. |
| 01:53.37 | TC-Work | Arrowmaster: do you have '3g' or '4g'? |
| 01:53.43 | Dagmar | Even with Torrents trying to slam me it doesnt come close to that |
| 01:53.52 | Arrowmaster | TC-Work: 3.5g |
| 01:54.11 | Dagmar | ...and that includes simple scp transfers from home to the office where I damn well know we have at least gigabit ethernet almost everywhere |
| 01:54.15 | TC-Work | i pull down 2MB consistantly with my connection and it's rated for 18Mb |
| 01:54.36 | TC-Work | Arrowmaster: well i have 3g and got 75ms ping and 1909/792 with speedtest.net |
| 01:55.13 | Dagmar | I honesly tought my upstream cap was 40kB/s because basicaclly that's all I've ever seen it do |
| 01:55.18 | Dagmar | s/tought/thought/ |
| 01:57.06 | Dagmar | I am at least glad that Comcast has finally gotten the clue about DNSSEC and IPv6 |
| 01:57.18 | Dagmar | I'm going to have to address the IPv6 thing here real soon |
| 01:57.32 | Arrowmaster | wish i had DNSSEC and IPv6 |
| 01:57.59 | Dagmar | I'll have to buy a new cablemodem for it |
| 01:58.03 | Arrowmaster | although its been so long since ive had my cable modem connected to anything but my router that doesnt support either that i wouldnt even notice if i did |
| 01:58.20 | Arrowmaster | why do you need a new modem? |
| 01:58.29 | Dagmar | Yeah my cablemodem's connected directly to a Linux box so it's a moot point here |
| 01:58.40 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: Because strangely, the bloody modem has to support it |
| 01:59.20 | Dagmar | Probably has something to do with them being unable to easily manage a box that will only take an IPv4 address |
| 01:59.23 | Arrowmaster | my SB5101 has lasted forever |
| 01:59.53 | TC-Work | 47.26/58.28....thats a nice speed |
| 01:59.57 | TC-Work | at work |
| 02:00.02 | Arrowmaster | die |
| 02:00.26 | TC-Work | sadly because of the way the webpages are handled, we dont get that for browsing |
| 02:00.28 | Dagmar | yeah mine's from the 2xxx line. No IPv6 stack for it |
| 02:00.36 | TC-Work | only for direct transfers |
| 02:01.01 | Dagmar | TC-Work: Ya'll should set up a squid caching box. :) |
| 02:01.16 | Arrowmaster | i had a first gen toshiba modem that lasted me forever yet it seems ive also had this forever |
| 02:01.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Ingela (~Ingela@90-230-170-118-no35.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 02:01.48 | *** join/#wowuidev zz_Cidan (~cidan@c-98-233-12-12.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 02:02.19 | TC-Work | Dagmar: i cant explain how they do it well enough because i have not been here long enough, but they have filter/caching servers here...thats what slows it down |
| 02:02.38 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: Yeah, my stuff always sits behind a UPS and power conditioners of some kind, so it basically never dies as well |
| 02:02.55 | Dagmar | TC-Work: wow. That's kinda sa. |
| 02:02.56 | Dagmar | er sad |
| 02:03.26 | TC-Work | yea, there is so much legacy stuff here it is a problem |
| 02:03.35 | Arrowmaster | trying to figure out when this modem was released so i might have a clue as to how long ive had it |
| 02:03.39 | Dagmar | We've at least thrown serious hardware into our firewalls so they don't add latency like that |
| 02:04.20 | Dagmar | That reminds me I have to get back after some chuckleheads about measurement points on the network |
| 02:05.44 | Dagmar | There is some resistance to this because the guys this would affect are under the impression they're doing worse than they actually are (based on the measurements I've been taking for the last year) |
| 02:06.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Zyn (~skreeee@h187n4-av-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 02:08.04 | Jamash | put a measurement point at every node on the network |
| 02:08.48 | Dagmar | No thank you |
| 02:09.14 | Dagmar | I'd rather not be tasked with running all over campus installing a hundred little cigar boxes |
| 02:09.40 | Dagmar | I just need to know _one_ reasonably reliable IP in each network segment |
| 02:09.56 | Jamash | but think of how much bigger your metrics would be |
| 02:10.15 | TC-Work | it's not the size that counts Jamash..... |
| 02:10.18 | Dagmar | Have you ever used Buisness Objects? |
| 02:10.21 | Jamash | "aggregate measurement performance has gone up by 10000%!" |
| 02:10.30 | Jamash | I don't know what that is |
| 02:10.34 | Dagmar | I have been trying for a month and a half to get the people responsible for that to FIX IT |
| 02:10.58 | Dagmar | Jamash: It's this gigantic package for reporting metrics from things like Spectrum |
| 02:11.08 | Jamash | full spectrum warrior? |
| 02:11.14 | Dagmar | Spectrum being a massive SNMP-driven tool for mapping and collecting data from everything on the network |
| 02:11.21 | Dagmar | ...and I do mean *everything*. |
| 02:11.26 | Dagmar | 600+ switches |
| 02:11.32 | kd3 | plugs in a toaster |
| 02:11.40 | Jamash | I have fortunately never had to deal with a network large enough to need snmp monitoring tools |
| 02:11.51 | Dagmar | Making large, detailed metrics is not a problem. |
| 02:11.59 | Dagmar | Getting the @#$@#$ software to do it to WORK, is |
| 02:12.22 | Jamash | must be because the US hasn't switched to metric yet |
| 02:12.30 | Dagmar | It's going to sound mean but frankly I'm disgusted that Computer Associates hands out that steaming mess that has "newb school" written all over it |
| 02:12.59 | Dagmar | The freaking ISO to install from, whoever ran mkisofs apparently was not aware of the fact that you can not include symlinks in the filesystem. |
| 02:13.16 | Jamash | sure you can, with the proper extensions |
| 02:13.40 | Dagmar | The bloody thing is a shell script that unwraps a java application, which in turn unwraps another tool to turn itself into a native package, and at that point... things go insane |
| 02:13.45 | Jamash | boom! |
| 02:14.03 | Dagmar | The installer then proceeds to invoke a bunch of shell scripts and java apps to basically go nuts on the filesystem |
| 02:14.28 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: this is why i hate proprietary shit that runs on linux |
| 02:14.33 | Dagmar | Everything gets logged in the java-based tool, which _doesn't work properly_ for anything but installing the package |
| 02:15.05 | Dagmar | Uninstallation is rm -rf $LAMEROOT or you spend awhile looking at java errors flooding the screen before you give up |
| 02:15.37 | Dagmar | So it gives you the option of installing their build of mysql, or using your own at one point |
| 02:16.04 | Dagmar | If you let it use theirs, it doesn't remove the test tables or guest accounts. |
| 02:16.27 | Dagmar | There is at least one part of the install script which has the root mysql user password hard coded to be "root". |
| 02:17.00 | Dagmar | ...and the other account which is not the root account it creates by default gets a grant all privs. |
| 02:17.07 | Dagmar | *blinkblink* |
| 02:17.40 | Jamash | this is why I took a vow to not take a job as a sysadmin |
| 02:17.55 | Jamash | after several years of reading the scary devil monastery |
| 02:17.58 | nicoli_s | we have a job open for sysadmin |
| 02:18.18 | Wobin | Don't take it! |
| 02:18.19 | Dagmar | The thing has "giant pile of newb hacks" written on it in so many ways... *sigh* |
| 02:18.20 | Wobin | It's a trap! |
| 02:18.27 | Kaylin | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:18.37 | Dagmar | It's everything mean people say about open source that you never actually really _see_ in open-source software |
| 02:19.07 | Jamash | yeah because in real FLOSS someone can rip that crap out and fix it |
| 02:19.27 | Dagmar | Oh my god I would if I could |
| 02:19.34 | Jamash | see? |
| 02:19.44 | Dagmar | I already tore the ISO apart and just wound up re-wrapping it all in a flat freaking file that's ext3 |
| 02:20.14 | Dagmar | I could have just copied the libraries repeatedly to get around the soname issue, but since the thing was clearly meant to have sylimks, I wound up putting about 50 back by hand |
| 02:20.54 | Jamash | symlinks are *supposed* to work on rock ridge, but that doesn't mean that they were properly encoded |
| 02:21.02 | Dagmar | ...and it's a freaking nightmare to try to dig into it deeper because of the way everything is invoked by an insane shell script that immediately calls a java application to do the data moving |
| 02:21.32 | Dagmar | Jamash: yeah I was looking at a bunch of files that contained things like "/usr/lib/libxml-2.6.26.so" |
| 02:21.43 | Dagmar | ...which is basically the contents of a symlink in a flat file. |
| 02:21.47 | Jamash | ah, they encoded *absolute* symlinks |
| 02:21.48 | Dagmar | *facepalm* |
| 02:21.56 | Jamash | derple |
| 02:21.57 | Dagmar | No they actually made a bunch of flat files. |
| 02:22.06 | Jamash | ah, they're *stupid* |
| 02:22.11 | Dagmar | That's the way they wind up when they *break*. |
| 02:22.14 | Dagmar | Yes, newb hour |
| 02:22.35 | Dagmar | I'm like, how do you NOT notice these things in QA on the final build image |
| 02:22.40 | Jamash | is there a reason they didn't just put a .tar.gz in the root folder of the cd? |
| 02:22.58 | Dagmar | Jamash: A nearly sexual fetish for doing everything with Java and InstallShield |
| 02:23.06 | Jamash | oh lord |
| 02:23.18 | Jamash | two bad tastes that taste bad together |
| 02:23.45 | Jamash | not that java is inherently bad, it's just like lawyers |
| 02:23.50 | Dagmar | Yeah I have to be guarded in what I say to their support people, because inside I'm just going "How the... what the... WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS?" |
| 02:23.58 | Jamash | 90% of java programs give the other 10% a bad reputation |
| 02:24.02 | Dagmar | Well, InstallShield is basically _not_ a package maanger |
| 02:24.19 | Jamash | of course not |
| 02:24.21 | Jamash | it's from windows |
| 02:24.25 | Jamash | windows doesn't have packages |
| 02:24.34 | Dagmar | Sure IT keeps track of what files it brought along, but it's so broken and there is no way to interface it with anything else the phrase "in theory" applies |
| 02:24.58 | Dagmar | That sort of thing is a problem rpm and deb both licked ages ago |
| 02:25.08 | Jamash | I consider windows' complete absence of package management infrastructure its single most obvious technological failing |
| 02:25.16 | Jamash | well, I shouldn't say complete |
| 02:25.21 | Jamash | "almost complete" |
| 02:25.57 | Jamash | on a modern OS there is no real reason why an app couldn't be a single file that you put in a directory and it runs |
| 02:26.29 | Dagmar | Well, that depends on how much of the wheel you'd like to reinvent, badly. |
| 02:26.36 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: you can still end up with a bad rpm or deb if you dont know how to make it properly |
| 02:26.42 | Jamash | I mean, if modern OSes were designed properly |
| 02:26.52 | Jamash | so maybe I mean on a post-modern OS ;) |
| 02:26.56 | Jamash | but it's been done |
| 02:26.57 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: Yeah but largely it's _really freakin easy_ compared to InstallShield |
| 02:27.18 | Jamash | I know there are unix variants that work that way, maybe not ones that are in very widespread use though |
| 02:27.21 | Dagmar | There's also like a thousand nerds on the internet openly offering documentation, instructions, and advice on it |
| 02:27.46 | Arrowmaster | i had to fix the deb for spacechem, the files were owned by uid 1000 instead of root |
| 02:28.19 | Dagmar | I assume they forgot to properly set those |
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| 02:29.21 | Dagmar | I know deb has a facility for specifying that somewhere or other |
| 02:29.45 | Arrowmaster | it uses the uid of the files when you create the package |
| 02:30.05 | Arrowmaster | depending on how you create it that is |
| 02:30.07 | Dagmar | You can't specify them in the control file? |
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| 02:30.15 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 02:30.26 | Dagmar | Like with RPM you basically just write a plaintext list of fileglobs and ownerships and it'll set them to that |
| 02:30.28 | kd3 | that's uh... kinda bad. rpm specs define the uid/group/perms indepently of the source files used to make the rpm |
| 02:30.31 | Arrowmaster | uid is stored in the tar |
| 02:31.14 | Arrowmaster | using the proper tools to create it though this wouldnt be an issue but theres non proper ways where you can basically just take a dir structure and turn it into a deb |
| 02:31.38 | Arrowmaster | dpkg -b |
| 02:31.52 | Dagmar | Well, you can sorta do that with RPM but people who can figure out how to use the ancient and arcane format they used are not that stupid |
| 02:32.10 | Dagmar | cpio != user friendly |
| 02:32.11 | Jamash | fakeroot |
| 02:32.41 | Dagmar | Tar on the other hand is so straightforward I've seen it implemented as pure bash script |
| 02:33.03 | kd3 | winces |
| 02:33.24 | Dagmar | Yeah I'm pretty sure that was only a subset of functionality, but it did work for simple operations |
| 02:33.30 | Dagmar | (obviously it was slow as crap) |
| 02:33.31 | Jamash | allows one to have simulated root perms on files without actually affecting the underlying file system, so tar produces a correct archive with uid/gid 0 but it's still running as a user process |
| 02:34.09 | Dagmar | Jamash: Yeah but in an archive file those are just numbers |
| 02:34.11 | Jamash | it's kind of a dumb workaround, but it does work(around) |
| 02:34.19 | Jamash | so? |
| 02:34.49 | Dagmar | The main reason the shell script I mentioned existed was to be able to create a tar with arbitrary permissions on the files |
| 02:35.09 | Jamash | > Arrowmaster: i had to fix the deb for spacechem, the files were owned by uid 1000 instead of root |
| 02:35.17 | Jamash | ergo, fakeroot |
| 02:35.36 | Dagmar | Yeah but for it to install the resulting files with the wrong permissions, even for a moment, is bad. |
| 02:35.51 | Jamash | oh, no no no, you *create* the package using fakeroot |
| 02:36.07 | Dagmar | Of course. |
| 02:36.11 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster's guy clearly idn't do that |
| 02:36.18 | Jamash | precisely! |
| 02:36.37 | Jamash | I meant, the guy who did it should have used fakeroot, not arrowmaster |
| 02:37.09 | Arrowmaster | debian maintains a set of tests to run on packages, one of them checks for files not owned by root, the better solution would be for anybody attempting to create deb packages to actually run those tests |
| 02:37.58 | Jamash | this is what you get when people writing closed-source windows games try to use FLOSS tools |
| 02:38.31 | Dagmar | Maybe it's time to suggest places like that hire at minimum one "open-source hippie" to do QA |
| 02:38.38 | Dagmar | We do seem to have higher standards |
| 02:38.50 | Jamash | on windows if it doesn't work, run it as administrator |
| 02:39.01 | Jamash | aka if the peg doesn't fit in the hole, use a bigger hammer |
| 02:39.31 | Dagmar | It's based around a point and grunt interface and caters to those who expect it to be sufficient. What do you expect? |
| 02:39.41 | Jamash | or look at the virtualstore nonsense in recent versions of windows |
| 02:40.04 | Jamash | it's a broken kluge for broken software |
| 02:40.52 | Jamash | and even after all that stuff still writes to program files\<app dir> |
| 02:41.27 | Jamash | and everyone installs games outside program files |
| 02:41.58 | Dagmar | Honestly though I would be ecstatic if I could get Spectrum and Buisness Objects to work properly... but the other thing is that the systems are four bloody gigabytes in size |
| 02:42.04 | Dagmar | _Each_ |
| 02:42.17 | Jamash | hwuuuuuuuuuut |
| 02:42.30 | TC-Work | i saw googles doodle and my first thought was....google minecraft?? |
| 02:42.37 | TC-Work | but no |
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| 02:43.08 | Dagmar | Jamash: Yes, so not only an incredibly obfuscated pile of mess, but a gigantic obfuscated pile of mess |
| 02:43.14 | Jamash | TC-Work: me too |
| 02:43.33 | Dagmar | One of the installation pieces is an actual network daemon that takes instructions about what to install |
| 02:43.56 | Dagmar | So the shell->java->shell thing I mentioned earlier actually turns fairly Inception-like |
| 02:44.12 | Jamash | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEtRoZ5FWNc |
| 02:44.41 | Dagmar | This is reinventing the wheel by designing four cars to attach to the sides |
| 02:45.24 | Dagmar | If when you run the car engines, the bodies slap against the ground and push the wheel along by brute force, you call it a release-quality product and ship it |
| 02:45.31 | bluspacecow | lol |
| 02:47.19 | Dagmar | You run a shell script to install a java program that packagizes itself as rpm, and installs a network daemon that it then tells to call other java programs |
| 02:47.51 | Dagmar | The mind boggles how a simply copy and log operation can evolve into this without demonic influence. |
| 02:47.56 | Dagmar | er simple |
| 02:48.23 | Arrowmaster | the entire shell script with a binary payload is simply evil |
| 02:48.35 | Arrowmaster | as a concept |
| 02:48.39 | Dagmar | You know, I would be happy if it were just shar archives. |
| 02:48.44 | Dagmar | I did find one buried in there tho |
| 02:49.24 | Jamash | Debian packages are standard Unix ar archives that include two tar archives optionally compressed with gzip (zlib), Bzip2, lzma, or xz (lzma2): one archive holds the control information and another contains the program data. |
| 02:49.33 | Jamash | this has always struck me as bizarre |
| 02:49.49 | Arrowmaster | why? |
| 02:50.07 | Jamash | triply nested archives what? |
| 02:50.15 | Dagmar | They're just encapsulating using simple tools that have been used for ages |
| 02:50.37 | Dagmar | ...and those things were sort of meant to be used like tinkertoys in the first place. |
| 02:50.40 | Jamash | really my question is why is ar in there |
| 02:50.49 | Dagmar | Stick them end to end to make what you need |
| 02:51.04 | Arrowmaster | because it was what was used back when the format was created |
| 02:51.11 | Jamash | but then why use tar inside ar |
| 02:51.15 | Dagmar | ...and because it's very simple which makes it hard to f**k up |
| 02:51.27 | Jamash | like, why not use ar -> ar or tar -> tar |
| 02:51.35 | Dagmar | They dont' need the meta information overhead (such that it is) involved yet |
| 02:51.54 | Jamash | just seems bizarre to use two file formats that have the same basic purpose in the same file |
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| 02:53.58 | Dagmar | It was probably that way from having been glued together originally and since the tools and methods are still very simple there's no desperate need to "fix" what's not really broken |
| 03:07.53 | bluspacecow | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u155ncSlkCk |
| 03:19.39 | Sintacks | Anyone heard of the camera stopping following when you turn ... (inb4 keyboard turner comment) |
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| 04:00.41 | Ackis | Torhal|work, pompy: http://i.imgur.com/wgN41.jpg |
| 04:01.00 | Torhal | Ackis: Sick bastard. |
| 04:01.01 | Torhal | :D |
| 04:01.04 | Ackis | :D |
| 04:02.59 | Seerah | heh |
| 04:05.24 | pompy | w t f |
| 04:05.25 | pompy | lol |
| 04:05.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Insomniac|3 (~kvirc@76.89.89.179) |
| 04:06.02 | Insomniac|3 | Anyone have any up-to-date good tutorials on creating addons? |
| 04:06.13 | alestane | pours Cairenn a birthday shot. |
| 04:06.31 | Cairenn | thanks alestane :) |
| 04:06.34 | Insomniac|3 | Particularly, i'm looking at frame stuff. I see some addons use .xml files, and others seem to just generate them through code. Which is more proper? |
| 04:06.47 | pompy | Insomniac|3: http://www.wowace.com/wiki/projects/ |
| 04:06.57 | kd3 | also, |
| 04:07.01 | kd3 | ~wowprogramming |
| 04:07.01 | purl | it has been said that wowprogramming is World of Warcraft Programming: A Guide and Reference for Creating WoW Addons - http://is.gd/7A3Jx - a book written by Cladhaire (jnwhiteh) and Gazmik, or the companion site and API reference available online for free at http://wowprogramming.com |
| 04:07.31 | kd3 | and sigh. my senior-level CS professor seems to think windows is the only OS that matters... |
| 04:07.52 | kd3 | an email exchange I'm having with him trying to fix his website stupidity: http://pastebin.com/NEujRNH0 |
| 04:08.04 | kd3 | (start at the bottom) |
| 04:08.49 | alestane | What? You mean there's ANOTHER OS? |
| 04:09.06 | alestane | That's just crazy talk. Why would there be two? |
| 04:09.45 | bluspacecow | …. lol |
| 04:09.58 | alestane | (Says the Mac user since 1985) |
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| 04:10.18 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 04:10.58 | Sintacks | i need to figure out which of my addons are eating CPU and see if i can live without the highest ones |
| 04:15.41 | Sintacks | i feel so naked without grid and ZOMGbuffs |
| 04:15.43 | Sintacks | coughs. |
| 04:15.49 | Sintacks | and i only got 2 fps out ot turning them off |
| 04:16.20 | kd3 | turn off everything and start turning on one or two at a time? or do a binary search, by turning off half, then half, then half again? |
| 04:16.26 | nebula169 | is there an addon that neuters the blizzard compact raid frames so i can use grid in peace? i've been meaning to look into that |
| 04:16.58 | Sintacks | neuters them how? |
| 04:17.05 | Jammer | nebula169: I assume you have already hidden the actual frames? |
| 04:17.12 | nebula169 | unregisters everyone, makes it so it never tries to update |
| 04:17.13 | nebula169 | yes |
| 04:17.22 | nebula169 | but it errors when people leave/join in combat, etc, etc |
| 04:17.37 | Insomniac|3 | Are there any sort of "magic hooks" into addons? |
| 04:18.01 | kd3 | magic hooks as in... what? modifying other addons from your code? |
| 04:18.24 | Insomniac|3 | Well, in asp.net; there are special functions that get called by the framework |
| 04:18.39 | Insomniac|3 | so are there magic functions that get called automatically by wow (ie.. OnInitialize) or the such |
| 04:18.44 | Jammer | ofc |
| 04:18.54 | kd3 | yes. all of event handling requires callbacks like that |
| 04:19.05 | Jammer | how else would your addon be able to do anything if it didn't get called by various events :) |
| 04:19.15 | nebula169 | magic. duh. |
| 04:20.59 | kd3 | wow addons (if coded sanely, hah!) are event-driven |
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| 04:21.16 | bluspacecow | pffft addons ? coded sanely ? |
| 04:21.18 | bluspacecow | LOLZ |
| 04:21.51 | mckenziemc1 | sterilizes bluspacecow |
| 04:21.59 | bluspacecow | :( |
| 04:22.04 | bluspacecow | i wanted to be pickled! |
| 04:22.55 | bluspacecow | 1) Go to http://j.mp/vZysqR 2) Click on the woman's head 3) YOU JERK! |
| 04:24.04 | TC-Work | lol bluspacecow |
| 04:24.27 | Sintacks | lololl |
| 04:25.42 | karl_w_w | that cant be right kd3 |
| 04:25.59 | karl_w_w | coding wow addons precludes sanity |
| 04:26.39 | kd3 | true |
| 04:27.01 | TC-Work | interesting, prone people are not classified as people by googles autoblur |
| 04:27.13 | TC-Work | but people on all 4's are |
| 04:27.18 | mckenziemc1 | o.o |
| 04:27.53 | karl_w_w | 4s |
| 04:29.03 | Sintacks | turning off recount only got me 2 fps |
| 04:30.00 | TC-Work | karl_w_w: 4's |
| 04:30.10 | mckenziemc1 | 4s |
| 04:30.19 | mckenziemc1 | well, fours |
| 04:30.23 | Sintacks | autoblur only blurs faces |
| 04:30.25 | TC-Work | mckenziemc1: 4's |
| 04:30.33 | kd3 | skills, notch: http://twitter.com/#!/notch/status/157259010561679360 |
| 04:30.38 | TC-Work | Sintacks: no, it does whole body. check the link |
| 04:39.35 | TC-Work | so CES is doing a public best of http://www.cnet.com/ces/peoples-voice/ . The problem is i'm not sure to vote for what i want, or what i think the best most innovative thing is there. |
| 04:39.47 | TC-Work | errrr...cnet is |
| 04:42.05 | TC-Work | so Cairenn, that time of year when you are turning 18 again huh? |
| 04:42.05 | ccox | Cairenn can haz birthday? |
| 04:42.16 | Cairenn | I can haz birfday |
| 04:44.09 | kd3 | rofl; I've made less money at Target the last three years running. |
| 04:44.23 | ccox | Cairenn: then Happy Birthday! |
| 04:44.33 | Cairenn | thanks ccox :) |
| 04:44.47 | Cairenn | TC-Work: heh, no - 25 |
| 04:44.54 | mckenziemc | Happy Cairenn, Birthday! |
| 04:44.58 | Cairenn | thanks mckenziemc |
| 04:45.07 | ccox | Oh, good, she's finally legal! |
| 04:45.14 | Cairenn | ;) |
| 04:45.27 | TC-Work | 18's not legal but 25 is? |
| 04:45.48 | ccox | 18's not legal for alcohol in the US |
| 04:46.09 | TC-Work | thats not the sort of legal people talk about in this situation |
| 04:46.16 | ccox | 25 is legal for, well, all the fun stuff |
| 04:46.24 | Cairenn | Indeed ;) |
| 04:48.00 | kd3 | and by rofl I mean I'm going to be sick |
| 04:48.05 | kd3 | looks for some alcohol |
| 04:48.35 | Cairenn | kd3 is going to be sick because it's my birfday? :( |
| 04:48.42 | kd3 | [23:44:09] kd3: rofl; I've made less money at Target the last three years running. |
| 04:48.51 | Cairenn | ah |
| 04:50.15 | bluspacecow | http://pictureisunrelated.memebase.com/2011/03/31/wtf-photos-videos-what-a-lamb/ |
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| 04:59.15 | karl_w_w | four's isn't a word |
| 04:59.30 | karl_w_w | so why would you replace it with 4's? |
| 05:01.09 | mckenziemc | four's complement |
| 05:01.26 | mckenziemc | contrived but valid |
| 05:08.10 | Arrowmaster | now this is trolling http://i.imgur.com/KDb0d.jpg |
| 05:10.37 | kd3 | haha |
| 05:17.50 | *** part/#wowuidev rikai (rikai@unaffiliated/rikai) |
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| 05:24.06 | Mr_Rabies | that feel when you get griefers kicked out of their guild :] |
| 05:32.14 | pompy | http://shirtoid.com/3305/halo-teabag/ awesome |
| 05:39.39 | bluspacecow | Cairenn: https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/390928_219094108171433_178040018943509_476235_152938886_n.jpg |
| 05:40.21 | Cairenn | lol |
| 05:40.30 | Fisker | hey bluspacecow |
| 05:40.37 | bluspacecow | oh hey |
| 05:42.07 | Jamash | so I'm browsing emusic and I'm saying to myself I can't tell which is the band name and which is the album name on half of these |
| 05:42.12 | Jamash | and then http://www.emusic.com/listen/#/album/the-black-keys/brothers/12313619/: |
| 05:42.38 | Jamash | someone else has clearly noticed this phenomenon |
| 05:43.36 | Fisker | Jamash's bluspacecow |
| 05:43.50 | Jamash | flips Fisker's lid |
| 05:44.39 | Fisker | :( |
| 05:45.09 | mckenziemc1 | tanks Fisker. |
| 05:45.12 | mckenziemc1 | dies. |
| 05:45.23 | Jamash | I had the weirdest dream |
| 05:45.36 | bluspacecow | you sailed away to china ? |
| 05:45.38 | Jamash | a bunch of bosses (including arthas) got together to raid my guild |
| 05:45.45 | Jamash | I think arthas was tanking |
| 05:45.57 | Jamash | it was... strange |
| 05:46.03 | mckenziemc | haha |
| 05:46.28 | Jamash | I think it was part of a confidence-building measure for defeated bosses |
| 05:47.03 | Jamash | you know, get them back on their feet |
| 05:54.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Insomniac|2 (~kvirc@76.89.89.179) |
| 06:00.30 | Insomniac|2 | ah, i see. this :OnInitialize stuff is based off the Ace3 libraries |
| 06:00.45 | mckenziemc | yeah |
| 06:01.04 | mckenziemc | but for builtin stuff, see |
| 06:01.07 | mckenziemc | !api SetScript |
| 06:01.07 | lua_bot | ScriptObject:SetScript: Sets the widget's handler function for a script (http://wowprogramming.com/docs/widgets/ScriptObject/SetScript) |
| 06:01.08 | Fisker | shoves mckenziemc into a thorny bush |
| 06:01.16 | mckenziemc | lives. |
| 06:01.58 | Fisker | yep |
| 06:02.04 | Fisker | with excruciating pain |
| 06:02.13 | mckenziemc | no Fisker |
| 06:02.16 | Fisker | yep |
| 06:02.41 | mckenziemc | well yes, i suppose the bush did experience pain |
| 06:02.54 | Fisker | nope you did |
| 06:05.37 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@adsl-74-242-190-238.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 06:12.42 | Dagmar | I figured it out! |
| 06:13.00 | Dagmar | Arhkam Asylum has a work-rehab program, and their inmates are coding for Computer Associates! |
| 06:13.26 | Dagmar | Ooh. Um, not inmates. Patients. |
| 06:14.05 | *** part/#wowuidev bluspacecow (~bluspacec@60-234-165-167.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) |
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| 06:19.04 | Fisker | strong |
| 06:23.07 | mckenziemc | ~whaletrout Fisker |
| 06:23.07 | purl | ACTION slaps Fisker with Hugh's more acrobatic cousin, Milliardo, who in turn slaps Fisker around a bit with a large trout |
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| 06:59.46 | karl_w_w | so somebody made a village in minecraft, and then made that village again in real life |
| 07:00.17 | karl_w_w | some people just need to get laid |
| 07:04.20 | mckenziemc | lays karl_w_w |
| 07:05.49 | karl_w_w | lower those eyebrows milhouse |
| 07:05.53 | karl_w_w | and the other one |
| 07:08.58 | Insomniac|2 | is there an event that's fired when a player engages a new mob, or a new mob engages you? |
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| 07:20.05 | AcidWeb | Insomniac|2: No |
| 07:20.19 | Insomniac|2 | What would be the best way to pull that off? |
| 07:20.54 | AcidWeb | Im not sure that is even possible. |
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| 07:29.07 | Insomniac|2 | Guess I could latch onto the UNIT_TARGET event |
| 07:39.55 | karl_w_w | how would that help |
| 07:42.47 | mckenziemc | targets bluspacecow. |
| 07:43.26 | bluspacecow | that would just fire each time you target something |
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| 07:53.43 | karl_w_w | fires mckenziemc |
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| 07:58.04 | Insomniac|2 | i'm basically trying to get a list of all enemies in combat |
| 07:58.20 | Insomniac|2 | trying to create a Vuhdo-Grid like thing so you can just right/left click and keep dots up |
| 07:58.50 | Insomniac|2 | i figure at some point you, or someone else in the raid is targetting / has targetted a mob |
| 07:59.21 | mckenziemc | if you manage to do it, it won't look very good |
| 07:59.40 | mckenziemc | since you won't be able to move target frames in combat |
| 08:00.00 | mckenziemc | oh, nvm, tired |
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| 08:00.32 | Insomniac|2 | ? why not |
| 08:04.59 | mckenziemc | then you could have an addon that has a "heal/debuff/taunt/etc this guy" frame |
| 08:05.24 | mckenziemc | debuff was meant to be dispell |
| 08:05.38 | mckenziemc | dispel* >.> |
| 08:05.44 | mckenziemc | needs sleep. |
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| 08:16.30 | Jamash | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9441366/test%20test%20test.png wut |
| 08:17.06 | bluspacecow | it's a test jamash! |
| 08:17.09 | Jamash | I call offensive and defensive dispells "unbuff" and "undebuff" respectively |
| 08:18.33 | mckenziemc | lol |
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| 08:18.47 | Jamash | obviously, a spell like unstable affliction would then be a redebuff |
| 08:23.11 | Jamash | and weakened soul is both a debuff and a unrebuff effect |
| 08:24.58 | Jamash | although, if you have Strength of Soul, Flash/Greater/Heal have a partial deunrebuff effect |
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| 08:26.03 | Maldivia | I think Jamash needs some sleep as well :) |
| 08:26.08 | Jamash | whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat |
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| 08:26.46 | Jamash | Sleep is just a debuff |
| 08:27.06 | Maldivia | yeah, so you can get untired and wake up later and become reuntired |
| 08:27.18 | Jamash | now you're getting it |
| 08:27.31 | Jamash | although, like polymorph, sleep can restore health and remove other debuffs |
| 08:27.54 | Jamash | so that would make it a ambideunbuff |
| 08:28.05 | Jamash | or |
| 08:28.05 | Jamash | uh |
| 08:28.08 | Jamash | zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz |
| 08:33.10 | karl_w_w | any pvp frost mages around? |
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| 08:52.44 | Insomniac|3 | "tables" work much like Javascript anonymous objects, correct? |
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| 08:58.21 | karl_w_w | how do you add something to the chat message you're writing without sending it? |
| 09:01.52 | karl_w_w | ChatEdit_InsertLink(text) |
| 09:09.14 | Cairenn | Are you SERIOUS? http://failblog.org/2012/01/11/epic-fail-fail-nation-probably-bad-news-these-frivolous-lawsuits-are-tearing-me-apart/ |
| 09:12.24 | Insomniac|3 | how do you turn off LUA errors from popping up on your screen? |
| 09:12.58 | mckenziemc | interface, help |
| 09:14.34 | Insomniac|3 | ty |
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| 09:40.42 | bluspacecow | @Cairenn name's blu not sirius |
| 09:40.56 | Cairenn | huh? |
| 09:41.23 | karl_w_w | http://www.cracked.com/article_19150_6-famous-frivolous-lawsuit-stories-that-are-total-b.s..html |
| 09:41.33 | bluspacecow | you asked if i was sirius |
| 09:41.38 | Cairenn | :p |
| 09:43.37 | karl_w_w | I'm cirrus |
| 09:43.56 | Kalroth | you're citrus |
| 09:44.49 | mckenziemc | how curious |
| 09:53.06 | bluspacecow | im a punny guy |
| 09:56.17 | karl_w_w | that's a shame |
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| 10:03.04 | mckenziemc | torhal i blame |
| 10:06.25 | karl_w_w | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitkat#Varieties so they _love_ kitkats in japan |
| 10:08.25 | bluspacecow | kk |
| 10:08.39 | bluofftogym | <----- bai bai |
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| 11:12.12 | Mikk | So... with all the new-ish additions of access to map/zone IDs and stuff |
| 11:12.19 | Mikk | Is there no way to get your current zone ID? |
| 11:12.29 | haste | suddenly, internet! |
| 11:12.30 | Mikk | Without setting the map to your current location |
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| 11:26.24 | airtonix | haste: umad? |
| 11:26.58 | haste | no |
| 11:27.12 | haste | my conection is twice as good now! |
| 11:28.37 | airtonix | breaks hastes legs ith flying body parts |
| 11:30.58 | mckenziemc | wonders what ith means. |
| 11:33.55 | airtonix | mckenziemc: I wwebsite as on the internet |
| 11:34.07 | mckenziemc | ah |
| 11:34.48 | mckenziemc | well then you'd better put on your big boy hat and wait it out like everybody else |
| 11:34.54 | karl_w_w | Mikk: don't think so, but what's the problem with that? :P |
| 11:35.10 | Mikk | spamming map sets leads to lag |
| 11:35.31 | karl_w_w | so don't spam them |
| 11:35.38 | karl_w_w | it only takes 2 |
| 11:35.43 | Mikk | + you don't want to do it while the map is open |
| 11:35.47 | karl_w_w | 1 if u keep track of it from when you change zone |
| 11:36.22 | airtonix | karl_w_w: you* |
| 11:36.27 | airtonix | mad? |
| 11:36.53 | karl_w_w | invents a human-sized paper shredder and feeds airtonix through it |
| 11:37.52 | karl_w_w | <Mikk> + you don't want to do it while the map is open <- why not? |
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| 12:04.03 | Mikk | AHA |
| 12:04.11 | Mikk | top of wyrmrest temple in Dragon Soul isn't "Dragon Soul" |
| 12:04.15 | Mikk | it's "The Dragon Wastes" |
| 12:04.22 | Mikk | that explains why my WA triggers didn't want to load! |
| 12:20.48 | kullervo | karl_w_w: find out about the 'monster' waste crusher |
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| 12:32.11 | bluspacecow | fisker wisker |
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| 12:41.26 | karl_w_w | kullervo: wha? |
| 12:42.40 | bluspacecow | oh hai |
| 12:42.53 | kullervo | the device that crushes things |
| 12:43.06 | karl_w_w | ah |
| 12:44.55 | karl_w_w | Mikk: doesnt GetRealZoneText() return dragon soul? |
| 12:48.23 | karl_w_w | other than an arcane mage what's the easiest range dps to play? :P |
| 12:49.07 | kullervo | ele shaman? |
| 12:49.44 | karl_w_w | ah, should have said other than ele sham as well :P |
| 12:50.05 | karl_w_w | i have a mage and hate arcane, and i have a shammy that's enhance/resto |
| 12:50.13 | karl_w_w | so im looking to try something else easy |
| 12:50.24 | mckenziemc | o.o |
| 12:50.46 | karl_w_w | s/ easy/, which is easy |
| 12:51.00 | karl_w_w | +/ |
| 12:51.02 | karl_w_w | sighs |
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| 13:00.45 | Mikk | karl_w_w: no, on top of the temple it returns "The Dragon Wastes" |
| 13:01.00 | Mikk | interestingly even in the nexus it returns "Dragon Soul" |
| 13:01.37 | Mikk | I guess they forgot to change that area when they copypastad it |
| 13:01.46 | bluspacecow | http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3881711798?page=1#2 |
| 13:07.08 | mckenziemc | macros bluspacecow to a large trout. |
| 13:07.26 | bluspacecow | ~whaletrout bluspacecow |
| 13:07.26 | purl | ACTION slaps bluspacecow with Hugh's more acrobatic cousin, Milliardo, who in turn slaps bluspacecow around a bit with a large trout |
| 13:09.17 | Fisker | you make me cry bluspacecow |
| 13:09.26 | bluspacecow | y ? |
| 13:10.07 | bluspacecow | it's cause i'm so good looking isn't it ? |
| 13:19.09 | karl_w_w | Mikk: that is strange, as it is the same zone |
| 13:19.28 | Mikk | indeed, but nonetheless it's true |
| 13:19.30 | karl_w_w | the drake takes you there from downstairs without a zone change |
| 13:19.35 | Mikk | i was running around doing /print GetRealZoneText() |
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| 13:45.29 | mckenziemc | hmm |
| 13:45.52 | mckenziemc | my video card and cpu seem to be runner *hotter* with my extra fans plugged in : / |
| 13:47.26 | haste | close your case |
| 13:47.32 | mckenziemc | it is |
| 13:48.06 | mckenziemc | but this may not actually be a fair comparison |
| 13:49.34 | karl_w_w | is there an alternative way to GetScreenWidth() to find the the screen width? |
| 13:51.36 | karl_w_w | ie. one that doesn't lie a lot |
| 13:51.57 | mckenziemc | GetScreenWidth isn't in pixels |
| 13:52.13 | karl_w_w | what's it in, barleycorns? |
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| 13:52.26 | mckenziemc | i think texels is the appropriate term |
| 13:52.30 | Lopeppeppy | Snows! I got snow for Cairenn's birthday! |
| 13:53.05 | mckenziemc | iirc, assuming no ui scale or a ui scale of 1, the height function will always return 768, and the width function will return that * aspect ratio |
| 13:54.10 | karl_w_w | so it's completely useless then? |
| 13:54.46 | mckenziemc | it's that way so a position x,y is always at the same % position on screen for any size of a given aspect ratio |
| 13:54.57 | mckenziemc | so windowed mode can be resized without things moving oddly |
| 13:55.02 | mckenziemc | what are you trying to do? |
| 13:58.55 | karl_w_w | get the screen width in pixels :P |
| 14:00.39 | karl_w_w | and then maybe find out what the ui scale is |
| 14:06.30 | alestane | All we have is slop. |
| 14:06.52 | Lopeppeppy | I got yummy 3-5 inches. Now it's kind of raining on top of it, so later could be messy. |
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| 14:14.17 | karl_w_w | is x used in all locales in the screen resolution? |
| 14:16.20 | bluspacecow | in soviet russia a is used |
| 14:18.29 | karl_w_w | seriously, or was that a poor attempt at a soviet russie reversal joke? :P |
| 14:18.39 | karl_w_w | a* |
| 14:18.50 | bluspacecow | it was actually |
| 14:18.54 | bluspacecow | :D |
| 14:18.59 | karl_w_w | in that case, strsplit("x",select(GetCurrentResolution(), GetScreenResolutions())) |
| 14:19.22 | mckenziemc | don't think that'll change if the window's been resized |
| 14:20.27 | mckenziemc | nope |
| 14:20.34 | mckenziemc | idk about custom resolutions either |
| 14:21.37 | karl_w_w | "well if people are going to do crazy things like resize their screen or change their resolution that's their problem"? :( |
| 14:22.39 | mckenziemc | i wonder if you could get any useful info out of the way GetCursorPosition returns decimal values |
| 14:22.54 | mckenziemc | floats |
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| 14:29.58 | Mikk | mckenziemc: why do you need the resolution? |
| 14:30.14 | mckenziemc | i don't, ask karl_w_w |
| 14:30.27 | Mikk | thing is, you don't want things suck in place on the screen |
| 14:30.31 | Mikk | you want them relative to the nearest corner |
| 14:30.33 | mckenziemc | yeah |
| 14:30.56 | Adys | Anyone in the channel has worked with AWS before? (EC2 specifically) |
| 14:31.17 | Mikk | karl_w_w: stop trying to put things in a fixed place. always make it relative to nearest corner. it works much better when resolution / UI scale changes. |
| 14:40.30 | Ackis | I'm sick Fisker |
| 14:45.31 | Lopeppeppy | fluffs up some chicken soup for Ackis. |
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| 14:46.54 | Ackis | peppy did you see my jedi's name? |
| 14:47.33 | bluspacecow | hmm |
| 14:47.38 | bluspacecow | time for some fatherly duties |
| 14:47.39 | bluspacecow | son |
| 14:47.52 | bluspacecow | *plops down a crate of porn in front of ackis* |
| 14:47.57 | bluspacecow | should clear up that cold right smart ! |
| 14:48.02 | Lopeppeppy | I did, you bad bad Jedi you. |
| 14:48.07 | Ackis | yeah but only for about 5 minutes bluspacecow :( |
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| 15:12.02 | karl_w_w | i'm not placing anything |
| 15:18.18 | Fisker | Ackis |
| 15:18.20 | Fisker | i'm you |
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| 15:20.09 | Ackis | o |
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| 15:23.18 | Ackis | If you take a tiny poop, is it a dumpling? |
| 15:28.07 | Mikk | argh |
| 15:32.39 | Maldivia | In which case, I think I'll order somwthing else next time Im getting chinese |
| 15:34.41 | Lopeppeppy | Crab rangoon takes on a whole new meaning to me. *sigh* |
| 15:37.32 | Maldivia | heh, I read racoon and was like... what? |
| 15:38.52 | bluspacecow | Crab Racoon? |
| 15:38.58 | bluspacecow | a strange new cajun dish |
| 15:39.13 | bluspacecow | followed by roadkill surprise |
| 15:40.08 | Lopeppeppy | Racoon and crab meats, sauteed with skunk sauce and served over wild roadside-harvested barley. |
| 15:40.25 | Maldivia | delish |
| 15:40.25 | Lopeppeppy | Very cajun-redneck cuisine. Especially if you leave in the tread marks. |
| 15:44.24 | airtonix | hey Lopeppeppy |
| 15:44.30 | Lopeppeppy | Oh yeah? |
| 15:44.35 | airtonix | i'd say something but you know |
| 15:45.05 | bluspacecow | ferrits! |
| 15:45.13 | airtonix | legs? |
| 15:45.18 | bluspacecow | *dumps some down airtonix's pants* |
| 15:45.20 | Lopeppeppy | Ferrets don't eat legs. Often. |
| 15:45.23 | airtonix | nomnomnom |
| 15:46.02 | airtonix | it's 2.15am, and only 5min ago it was 11pm |
| 15:48.12 | bluspacecow | u mad ? |
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| 16:12.18 | Ackis | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDo8W5IEpYU&t=30s |
| 16:12.28 | Ackis | "ohhhh that sucks" |
| 16:15.13 | Lopeppeppy | Do not stand in poo, still the lesson after all these years. |
| 16:15.28 | Ackis | wasn't poo that was being stood in |
| 16:15.38 | bluspacecow | what if poo stands on you ? |
| 16:15.40 | Ackis | first almost kill of morchok a mage blinked into trash |
| 16:17.18 | airtonix | i'd be mad |
| 16:17.19 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 16:17.32 | Ackis | we were |
| 16:17.42 | Ackis | the guy who said "really" was our raid leader |
| 16:18.23 | Ackis | I do things on purpose to annoy him :D |
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| 16:21.29 | airtonix | i sense the angst is strong in you |
| 16:26.53 | karl_w_w | st valentine, the patron saint of restaurant owners, chocolate sellers and divorce lawyers |
| 16:28.28 | Lopeppeppy | Surely is, karl_w_w |
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| 17:40.44 | mikma | cide: where was your slimewarningaddon again? |
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| 17:48.09 | Ackis | http://www.explosm.net/comics/2672/ |
| 17:53.01 | Cide | https://github.com/eandre/YorsahjWarner |
| 17:55.22 | Cide | @ mikma |
| 18:02.07 | *** join/#wowuidev ShadniX (shadow1st@b045.apm.etc.tu-bs.de) |
| 18:07.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Yoshimo (~Miranda@p54999789.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:08.55 | nicoli_s | Adys:any chance you got javascript code to diff tooltips? |
| 18:09.11 | Adys | nicoli_s: you mean the js side? |
| 18:09.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaylin (~Kaylin@c-67-201-212-12.reshall.wwu.edu) |
| 18:09.22 | Adys | it should be in tooltip.js i believe |
| 18:09.25 | nicoli_s | well i mean like taking two pieces of html and diffing them |
| 18:09.29 | Adys | ah |
| 18:09.31 | nicoli_s | now just showing the diffs |
| 18:09.34 | nicoli_s | not* |
| 18:09.49 | nicoli_s | im tasked with doing it in js and im just so lazy |
| 18:10.00 | Adys | i dont believe its done in js, but im not sure |
| 18:10.00 | Jamash|debuffed | so |
| 18:10.08 | Adys | vjeux wrote it |
| 18:10.10 | Jamash|undebuffe | nerts |
| 18:10.25 | nicoli_s | yeah i know ive been chatting with him |
| 18:10.29 | nicoli_s | his is in python though |
| 18:10.36 | Adys | pm |
| 18:11.01 | haste | my god, a LFR with only 1 mage |
| 18:11.14 | Jamash|undebuffe | mages are rad |
| 18:11.35 | haste | usually there's like.. 7 mages |
| 18:11.37 | Jamash|awakeish | I demand longer nicknames |
| 18:13.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Antze1 (~Antze@87.239.27.97) |
| 18:13.34 | Adys | Arrowmaster: you might know, any idea? https://plus.google.com/116965050091309960242/posts/dfJ5XH1i8Eg |
| 18:13.42 | Lopeppeppy | I demand that I may or may not be Zoomfrindel. |
| 18:14.00 | Arrowmaster | Adys: afaik facebook connect has nothing at all to do with openid |
| 18:14.05 | Jamash|awakeish | Vroomfondel |
| 18:14.15 | Jamash|awakeish | also hi5 for douglas adams |
| 18:14.45 | Jamash|awakeish | ~Lopeppeppy++ |
| 18:15.02 | Arrowmaster | Adys: the only connection is that some openid libraries support facebook connect so you see sites that list facebook and a bunch of other openid sites |
| 18:15.14 | Adys | beh |
| 18:15.19 | Lopeppeppy | Adys, that is my understanding as well. |
| 18:15.27 | Adys | well this blows hard |
| 18:15.33 | Lopeppeppy | Thanks, Jamash. My speling isn't so good, but I like my ability to demand. |
| 18:15.54 | Arrowmaster | im waiting for openid 3.0 and really hope it cleans things up a lot |
| 18:16.06 | Arrowmaster | right now openid 2.0 is a mess with its i-name support |
| 18:16.35 | Arrowmaster | nobody seems to get it correct |
| 18:16.43 | Jamash|awakeish | this does not surprise me |
| 18:18.11 | Jamash|awakeish | everyone's always trying to develop the hot new permanent internet id |
| 18:18.55 | Jamash|awakeish | I don't really want a permanent internet ID, I want an internet ID that doesn't spill personally identifiable information left and right |
| 18:19.52 | Jamash|awakeish | so does openid 3 support anonymous brokered logins? |
| 18:20.06 | Arrowmaster | no clue i havent kept up with any of the talks |
| 18:20.43 | Jamash|awakeish | http://openid.anonymity.com/ hawt |
| 18:21.11 | Jamash|awakeish | I am so down with this |
| 18:21.41 | *** join/#wowuidev vithos (vith@unaffiliated/vithos) |
| 18:21.48 | Jamash|awakeish | not exactly what I was looking for (persistent anonymous logins) but a decent substitute for sites I don't want to give real credentials to |
| 18:21.58 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 18:22.23 | Jamash|awakeish | what I really want is a way to specify a unique token to every different site but always the same token to each site |
| 18:24.57 | Adys | Can users login to sites with Facebook Connect through Gmail and OpenID as well, or just Facebook.com? |
| 18:24.57 | Adys | Only facebook.com. Right now, we’re trying to get something out to users and figure out what is the smallest set of functionality that we can roll out, because it involves laying a lot of the groundwork from a security perspective. Now that we’ve laid the groundwork there’s a bunch of iterations we can do. |
| 18:24.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (~Daniel@c-76-28-131-143.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 18:25.02 | Adys | ugh |
| 18:25.33 | Jamash|awakeish | I have a second facebook account with no information and no friends just to use fbc |
| 18:25.51 | Adys | Jamash|awakeish: yeah i was thinking about doing the same |
| 18:26.36 | Jamash|awakeish | ideally this would be something I could specify while logging in (share real information, share fake information, share no information) but the facebook panopticon hates anonymity with the heat of a thousand ad impressions |
| 18:30.39 | karl_w_w | you know a great solution to all these problems? |
| 18:30.46 | karl_w_w | dont use it. |
| 18:31.05 | Jamash|awakeish | I'm talking about a generic solution, not just facebook |
| 18:31.25 | *** join/#wowuidev oro (~Orofar@83.101.79.185) |
| 18:31.38 | Jamash|awakeish | give me an openid that will supply a different token to every site that requests one, but always the same token to the same site and I'll be happy |
| 18:31.55 | Jamash|awakeish | I mean, different identity |
| 18:32.07 | Jamash|awakeish | obviously the tokens are already different |
| 18:33.04 | karl_w_w | aka registering seperately for each site |
| 18:33.18 | Jamash|awakeish | but with a single openid login |
| 18:34.47 | Jamash|awakeish | like I'm bozo the clown on site A but dr sandhattan on site B, and there's no way for site A and site B to collude to tell who I really am |
| 18:35.07 | Jamash|awakeish | but also I only need to remember one username and password |
| 18:35.21 | Lopeppeppy | They will always collude - it's what marketers *do* |
| 18:35.51 | Jamash|awakeish | okay, "as difficult to collude as if I registered for each site separately using a throwaway email address" |
| 18:36.30 | karl_w_w | so just register with the same login details |
| 18:36.43 | Jamash|awakeish | point, u r missing it |
| 18:37.39 | karl_w_w | ur point is you want to register for each site seperately and use the convenience of openid so you dont have to login seperately |
| 18:38.11 | Jamash|awakeish | more or less |
| 18:39.21 | Jamash|awakeish | can I get that without my openid provider providing any way for each respective site to know what my global openid account is |
| 18:39.46 | Jamash|awakeish | 'cause if I login with google it provides my email address as I understand it |
| 18:41.40 | Maldivia | they could just do like what do on G+ to hide email addresses |
| 18:46.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@pool019.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 18:46.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 18:47.38 | karl_w_w | is it just my imagination or do blizzard employees seem to spend half their time in meetings? |
| 18:48.05 | karl_w_w | s/employees/developers/ |
| 18:48.16 | Maldivia | why do you think D3 is behind schedule ? :) |
| 18:52.20 | karl_w_w | I don't |
| 18:52.32 | Torhal|work | Blizzard has a schedule? Screenshots! |
| 18:52.51 | karl_w_w | or, if there was supposed to be a comma in Maldivia's sentence: no, I don't |
| 18:53.09 | karl_w_w | Torhal|work: http://news.mmogamesite.com/blizzard-product-slate-leaked.html |
| 18:53.22 | Ackis | keylogger |
| 18:54.34 | Ackis | I wonder how D3 will work on the console... will it be portal2esque and sync with battle.net? |
| 18:55.29 | *** join/#wowuidev TC-Work (~palewitz@99-50-80-110.lightspeed.lsanca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:00.02 | *** join/#wowuidev isman (~drag@mna75-2-82-67-196-34.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 19:04.35 | karl_w_w | Ackis: crystal ball says yes :P |
| 19:04.49 | Torhal|work | ~8ball |
| 19:04.49 | purl | ACTION rolls the eight ball and gets: It is certain |
| 19:04.59 | TC-Work | So i just activated my new galaxy nexus....72 concurrent app downloads >.< |
| 19:08.22 | Lopeppeppy | That's gonna sting. |
| 19:11.45 | Dagmar | Wave goodbye to your remaining quotas (if you don't have unlimited data). Heh |
| 19:16.01 | karl_w_w | galaxy nexus has wifi |
| 19:16.22 | karl_w_w | the quota on home internet, if it even has one, tends to be quite high :P |
| 19:18.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Yoshimo (~Miranda@p54999789.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:21.44 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar_work (~sylvanaar@pdpc/supporter/active/sylvanaar) |
| 19:24.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Robsato (~Robsato@wetering.xs4all.nl) |
| 19:25.48 | Arrowmaster | kd3: why am i following youtube links from /r/anime, i seriously have no fucking clue what i just watched |
| 19:27.44 | Arrowmaster | seems i killed him |
| 19:28.51 | haste | Arrowmaster: link! |
| 19:29.04 | Arrowmaster | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln1rjvyRaGM&feature=youtu.be |
| 19:29.39 | haste | worst part, I've read the manga they're refering to :( |
| 19:29.47 | Arrowmaster | what the fuck is it |
| 19:32.41 | TC-Work | Dagmar: i do have unlimited data, yay grandfathering. |
| 19:33.04 | haste | Arrowmaster: its a anime adaptions of 百合星人ナオコサン's crazy stuff :D |
| 19:33.24 | Dagmar | Good thing for that |
| 19:33.46 | Dagmar | Good thing you're not on Sprint, either |
| 19:33.47 | durcyn | i will never understand anyone who watches anime with a smile on their face |
| 19:34.19 | TC-Work | as opposed to what? |
| 19:34.27 | Dagmar | Once you're outside of your original contract, Sprint has a distressing tendency to decide that if you change anything more elaborate than the wallpaper on your phone that you need to pay them more money to retain service. |
| 19:34.56 | Arrowmaster | haste: also why am i just now finding out about a Berserk movie coming out |
| 19:35.07 | Dagmar | If I have my Palm 800w repaired in a manner more substantial than just gluing bits back onto it they'll start tacking on a $10/month fee just because it runs WM6.1 |
| 19:35.24 | Dagmar | Frankly, I think they owe me more a month than that _because_ it runs WM6.1 |
| 19:35.28 | haste | Arrowmaster: dunno :D |
| 19:36.29 | haste | it's also Kashmir's madness |
| 19:36.46 | Arrowmaster | i havent caught up on the manga in a long time |
| 19:37.20 | *** join/#wowuidev daev (~bleh@184.18.55.222) |
| 19:37.21 | haste | neither have I, and I'm failing at this now :( |
| 19:38.15 | haste | Arrowmaster: http://anidb.net/a8315 this is the correct one |
| 19:38.33 | haste | and I really need to leave now :D |
| 19:39.06 | haste | (itou junji only makes crazy stuff!) |
| 19:46.05 | Fisker | hey haste |
| 19:46.23 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar_work (~sylvanaar@pdpc/supporter/active/sylvanaar) |
| 19:46.35 | Fisker | so i heard karl_w_w |
| 19:46.43 | Fisker | what are quotas btw? |
| 19:49.42 | Adys | Arrowmaster: have you used facebook's openid login |
| 19:49.44 | Arrowmaster | what? |
| 19:49.51 | Adys | If you are logged into one of the accounts below you will automatically be logged into Facebook. |
| 19:49.51 | Adys | Google |
| 19:49.56 | Adys | I linked that one |
| 19:50.02 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 19:50.16 | Adys | but if i log off theres nowhere i can log into facebook, makes little sense |
| 19:50.23 | Adys | (using my google acct) |
| 19:50.24 | Arrowmaster | last time i looked at that feature to link openid accounts it didnt seem to do anything except let them access your openid account |
| 19:50.39 | Fisker | i'm confused about the whole voluntarily logging into facebook |
| 19:52.55 | Adys | Arrowmaster: https://developers.facebook.com/blog/post/246/ |
| 19:59.43 | Dagmar | Yeah, OpenID might as well be a one-way system for what people have done to implement it. |
| 20:05.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Xyphoid (~xyph@unaffiliated/xyphoid) |
| 20:12.21 | Adys | Dagmar: the problem is not one any sort of openid ideal or technology could solve |
| 20:12.43 | Adys | it's in the way websites think they should store passwords/sensitive data, and the way they really should |
| 20:12.59 | Dagmar | Well, it could if some of these large sites would stop acting like everyone else's database is filled with radioactive herpes |
| 20:13.20 | Adys | that's exactly what im saying |
| 20:13.35 | Dagmar | Oh noes, someone could login with credentials stored on someone else's machine! |
| 20:13.48 | Dagmar | I was under the impression that was rather the _entire point_ of OpenID |
| 20:14.06 | Adys | the path a user takes should be "i trust my private data to <this openid provider>", and then when a different website requests that data, "i accept sharing that data" |
| 20:15.51 | Dagmar | It's not even a significant amount of data |
| 20:17.24 | Adys | Blogger's comment system has been updated and it now supports threading. You can now reply to a comment and read the entire conversation. |
| 20:17.46 | Adys | In other news, oldest blogging platform on the internet still showing its age |
| 20:21.10 | Mikk | threads are so newfangled |
| 20:21.17 | Mikk | only been around since 1980something |
| 20:21.20 | Mikk | give em a break |
| 20:22.07 | Adys | bah you're right |
| 20:22.09 | Adys | I'll be nice |
| 20:22.50 | Adys | I should really not make fun of the fact they've been around for barely even over ten to twelve years, and just got around to implementing threading |
| 20:23.01 | Mikk | no, absolutely not |
| 20:23.21 | Adys | I'm a terrible person for even thinking I could do that |
| 20:24.01 | Mikk | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:24.20 | Mikk | Then again I haven't seen you on BH for ages |
| 20:26.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Wa (~wa@50.45.207.133) |
| 20:28.07 | Lopeppeppy | Ugh, I'm falling asleep at my desk here. This hot-cold torture system is very effective. |
| 20:29.15 | Adys | Mikk: i just log on for my weekly mc/kara runs |
| 20:29.25 | Adys | too busy with work |
| 20:29.28 | Adys | well, not exactly |
| 20:29.36 | Adys | just feel more like work than wow these days :P |
| 20:33.13 | mikma | cairenn: http://pics.kuvaton.com/bshit/ragestache_7567_1323136810.jpg |
| 20:33.26 | Cairenn | lol |
| 20:39.17 | cog|work | mikma: Cairenn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFLihlCOXjQ |
| 20:39.31 | Cairenn | lol |
| 20:39.47 | Lopeppeppy | Damn that's an ugly chupathingie, Cogwheel |
| 20:40.18 | cog|work | HEEEEEEEY CHUPACABRA! |
| 20:40.35 | Fisker | hey cog|work |
| 20:40.51 | Fisker | very good audio quality |
| 20:40.52 | cog|work | slaps Fisker around a bit with a large chupacabra |
| 20:41.12 | Fisker | Are you becoming increasingly aggrevated? |
| 20:41.23 | cog|work | no just increasingly tired |
| 20:41.28 | Fisker | : |
| 20:41.30 | Fisker | :) |
| 20:41.36 | *** join/#wowuidev |Jelly| (~|Jelly|@c-98-207-160-238.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 20:42.28 | cog|work | hai |Jelly| |
| 20:42.53 | Fisker | ujelly? |
| 20:57.35 | TC-Work | Arrowmaster: i'm resonablly impressed, 1 bar of 4g and its 48ms ping and 11670/925 |
| 20:57.45 | TC-Work | reasonably* |
| 20:57.52 | Arrowmaster | where are you at right now? |
| 20:58.35 | TC-Work | Arrowmaster: you mean physical location? |
| 20:58.37 | Dagmar | ...and what are you wearing? |
| 20:59.04 | Arrowmaster | well mostly just were are you at thats different from last night |
| 20:59.05 | Fisker | you can do better on hspa |
| 20:59.07 | Fisker | ujelly? |
| 20:59.09 | TC-Work | Dagmar: everything and nothing |
| 20:59.39 | TC-Work | Arrowmaster: nowhere, last night was my old phone on 3g, todays it's my new phone on 4g |
| 20:59.45 | TC-Work | or rather LTE |
| 21:00.55 | Fisker | i once lte'd a guy |
| 21:01.10 | Arrowmaster | right now mines even worse than last night |
| 21:01.17 | Arrowmaster | only 1.6mbit down |
| 21:01.23 | Arrowmaster | still 270ms ping |
| 21:01.48 | Fisker | so Shirik |
| 21:01.50 | Fisker | google drive |
| 21:01.53 | Fisker | you excited? |
| 21:03.07 | Kaylin | google drive? does that let you organize and search for people you want to have anonymous sex with, or is it just like a remote network drive bc that sounds way less exciting/sketchy/useful |
| 21:03.52 | Fisker | actually it's a new app for android that lets android drive your car for you |
| 21:05.40 | Kaylin | that falls somewhere inbetween those two |
| 21:05.46 | Cide | Shirik: hi |
| 21:07.05 | Kaylin | add "your friend" without the quotes to the diablo II spam filter, removes flist spam, :O |
| 21:08.36 | Dagmar | All you need to run it are the Gripping Hands adapter so that it can handle the wheel, and nevermind the fact that they're capable of reaching for the driver's neck |
| 21:08.54 | TC-Work | or other parts |
| 21:09.11 | Dagmar | If you can't keep your cell phone from strangling you to death, you haven't been paying enough attention to today's technology. |
| 21:09.36 | Dagmar | ...also an excellent reason to _never mess with your cell phone while driving_ |
| 21:09.49 | Fisker | i once killed a guy while driving |
| 21:39.32 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 21:40.10 | kd3 | grr. looks like it's time for a new wireless adapter |
| 21:40.36 | Cide | the best wireless adapters are the wired ones |
| 21:41.01 | kd3 | true, but I don't feel like knocking holes in walls to run cat6 |
| 21:41.07 | kd3 | not that I think my lease will let me anyway |
| 21:43.17 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 21:53.22 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar (~sylvanaar@pdpc/supporter/active/sylvanaar) |
| 21:56.03 | *** join/#wowuidev mckenziemc (~Mark@dialup-4.246.253.163.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net) |
| 22:09.17 | *** join/#wowuidev syrae (~syrae@2620:0:b60:3:cabc:c8ff:fea6:172b) |
| 22:13.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Mihau (~Mihau@67.58.77.206) |
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| 22:15.12 | TC-Work | kd3: use a pair of synchronized synthetic quantum singularities to get data from point A to B. |
| 22:17.10 | kd3 | lol |
| 22:32.04 | zenzelezz | Cide: I got a pair of those G930s you recommended. Pretty happy so far, though I've yet to quite determine the perfect fit without them (after a while) squeezing my glasses |
| 22:32.21 | TC-Work | zenzelezz: get contacts |
| 22:32.35 | zenzelezz | I tried, couldn't get comfortable with them |
| 22:33.04 | Ackis | zenzelezz: the wife and I both have those |
| 22:34.28 | *** join/#wowuidev syrae (~syrae@2620:0:b60:3:cabc:c8ff:fea6:172b) |
| 22:34.39 | zenzelezz | I'm usually one to defend Firefox, but I'm quite impressed how often it crashes on my linux boxes in the 9 series |
| 22:35.27 | zenzelezz | some sites seem more prone to it than others |
| 22:37.07 | TC-Work | zenzelezz: i havent had a single crash with ff9 yet |
| 22:37.35 | zenzelezz | I'd blame my computer, but it's on both of my linux boxes (home and work) |
| 22:37.44 | zenzelezz | could still be my fault, but it ran fine in 8 |
| 22:38.06 | TC-Work | zenzelezz: Monocles! |
| 22:38.16 | TC-Work | but...2 of them.... |
| 22:38.24 | TC-Work | on a framework.... |
| 22:38.31 | TC-Work | hmm...sounds a lot like glasses |
| 22:38.37 | zenzelezz | hehe |
| 22:39.13 | TC-Work | i also have the G903, courtesy of Curse. |
| 22:39.30 | TC-Work | it's nice but the mic is garbage on the end of a stick |
| 22:39.58 | zenzelezz | haven't tried that yet. Rarely use a mic now that I'm not raiding; bar the occasional skype chat |
| 22:40.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~callahan@c-50-130-0-209.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 22:45.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@adsl-74-226-99-198.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 22:45.40 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 22:48.46 | TC-Work | i use it for many a multiplayer game with my friends, so i end up still using the desk based mic |
| 22:52.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Xuerian (~core@64.203.145.41) |
| 22:58.15 | TC-Work | whats a good way to remotely see who is logged on a system in linux |
| 23:00.00 | TC-Work | nvm |
| 23:00.21 | TC-Work | or rather, is there something better than ssh + last |
| 23:13.06 | zenzelezz | if you want currently logged in, I think "who" may be as good as "last"... though I didn't take enough time to scrutinise them |
| 23:14.20 | Arrowmaster | last, who, w |
| 23:14.22 | Arrowmaster | either works |
| 23:16.39 | zenzelezz | never knew of w, that's pretty nice |
| 23:20.33 | Arrowmaster | i usually use w |
| 23:28.22 | Dagmar | There's also `lastb` |
| 23:28.40 | Dagmar | ...which is somewhat handy in that it's the same thing as last, but for failed login attempts |
| 23:31.05 | Arrowmaster | sometimes lastb is disabled for security reasons though |
| 23:31.06 | TC-Work | Arrowmaster: any of those allow you to specify a remote machine? |
| 23:31.31 | Arrowmaster | TC-Work: no, unless you have remote access to the filesystem |
| 23:31.40 | TC-Work | also, this is part of a ticket that came in "i was on leave in sydney when my suddenly stopped working and i have been informed that new ones were reissued" i am amused. |
| 23:32.15 | TC-Work | Arrowmaster: yes.... |
| 23:32.23 | TC-Work | like i said, i can ssh in anywhere |
| 23:32.41 | TC-Work | but i would rather just add in a hostname argument and be done with it |
| 23:33.24 | Arrowmaster | see the man pages, some let you specify the utmp or wtmp file location instead, if you have remote filesystem access to the system then you dont have to ssh in |
| 23:33.46 | TC-Work | bah! |
| 23:33.58 | Arrowmaster | but to get remote filesystem access you kinda need a way to login |
| 23:34.08 | Arrowmaster | just automate it |
| 23:34.24 | Arrowmaster | ssh hostname w |
| 23:34.40 | Arrowmaster | runs the command w and disconnects |
| 23:34.47 | Dagmar | There's also SNMP |
| 23:35.04 | Dagmar | There's almost cerainly some OID you can poll, or you can just roll a custom one |
| 23:36.09 | Dagmar | It may be old and the docs obnoxious, but when it comes down to it if you just need to prod a remote machine for some information that doesn't neccessarily need to be encrypted or secret, it's the easiest thing to use |
| 23:40.39 | TC-Work | hmm...seems all of out windows boxes have PS tools installed, though it means i have to use it from a windows box |
| 23:40.45 | TC-Work | s/out/our/ |
