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| 01:22.00 | Torhal | mukunda: SetTexCoord |
| 01:22.04 | Torhal | !api SetTexCoord |
| 01:22.05 | lua_bot | Texture:SetTexCoord: Sets corner coordinates for scaling or cropping the texture image (http://wowprogramming.com/docs/widgets/Texture/SetTexCoord) |
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| 01:25.03 | Cide | 34k+? |
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| 01:25.16 | Cide | there are lots of encounters where 34k+ is commonplace |
| 01:25.41 | Cide | and gauges can be piecewise linear |
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| 01:55.16 | mukunda | my raid has trouble with 20k -_- |
| 01:55.54 | mukunda | lol i think im just going to make it horizontal anyway, since i guess that will make it easier to change the tick labels as well |
| 01:56.15 | mukunda | and super easy to animate |
| 02:28.08 | Dagmar | Whoa. |
| 02:28.10 | Dagmar | PAtches. |
| 02:28.19 | Dagmar | I really should login more often. |
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| 03:30.32 | mukunda | the wow ui can do additive blending right? |
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| 04:22.38 | Sintacks | There is aparently a hidden requirement for [Do a Barrel Roll] on Alys... |
| 04:22.46 | Sintacks | You have to be alive at the end of the fight. |
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| 04:47.04 | Mr_Rabies | don't judge me |
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| 05:59.51 | mukunda | can i make widgets in the lua code? or only in the xml? |
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| 06:40.08 | Iriel | mukunda: you can do pretty much anything from Lua |
| 06:40.14 | Iriel | (that you can from XML) |
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| 07:05.26 | mukunda | i see |
| 07:13.39 | mukunda | how does wow know what textures to load at startup.. |
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| 07:30.39 | Iriel | It loads them as they're requested - but it does keep track of what files were present at startup,you can't add a file later |
| 07:31.56 | mukunda | ah, so thats why, so it just keeps an internal directory/file list at startup |
| 07:32.10 | Iriel | Yes. |
| 07:32.32 | Iriel | it also caches the ## parts of .toc files (well, most of them), so you can't change those reliably once you start the client either |
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| 07:57.22 | harl | wuff wuff |
| 07:58.02 | Maldivia | seems freenode finally woke up and fixed their network |
| 08:00.37 | Corrodias | now if only they'd stop being sheep and wake up to the TRUTH, maaaan. |
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| 08:17.45 | Fisker | i would be mad Maldivia |
| 08:20.16 | Maldivia | would be... do you mean you're not already rambling mad ? |
| 08:21.09 | Fisker | :( |
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| 08:43.05 | Fisker | lolol Sixen |
| 08:43.13 | Fisker | Force is getting raped by arcane enchanted hydras |
| 08:43.23 | Fisker | i love those guys |
| 08:43.55 | Fisker | he's like totally a n00b :( |
| 08:44.32 | Sixen | because he's a nub |
| 08:44.32 | Sixen | ;) |
| 08:44.45 | Fisker | xD |
| 08:44.48 | Fisker | died again |
| 08:44.50 | Fisker | hemad |
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| 08:46.19 | Elkano | so, Fisker, still no D3 for you :P |
| 08:46.24 | Fisker | fu Elkano |
| 08:47.52 | Fisker | i don't get it |
| 08:47.58 | Fisker | suddenly flash is lagging in fullscreen now |
| 08:48.41 | Kalroth | l2p |
| 08:51.11 | Jamash | can't sleep |
| 08:55.00 | Corrodias | i wonder what proportion of people use the remote to waggle vs the nunchuck, in the Super Mario Galaxy games. |
| 08:55.13 | Jamash | that's a weird thing to wonder |
| 08:55.38 | Jamash | what I wonder is why there's no New Super Metroid 3DS |
| 08:56.26 | jnwhiteh | Corrodias: i play SMBWii without the nunchuck, which isn't quite the same question. but I think its far superior |
| 08:57.22 | Corrodias | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:58.02 | jnwhiteh | yeah, its the default mode of playing, actually |
| 08:58.20 | Corrodias | but anyway, when i see speedrunners playing SMG 1 or 2, they typically spin by flicking the remote. i find the cursor flying around to be distracting, so i jerked the nunchuck as soon as i found out that it also works, and i never looked back. |
| 08:59.18 | Jamash | jerking strategy = TMI |
| 09:00.05 | Corrodias | heheh |
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| 09:15.46 | Fisker | hey jnwhiteh |
| 09:16.22 | jnwhiteh | hihi |
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| 09:28.26 | Fisker | force is a jerk apparently Sixen |
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| 09:33.11 | haste | I forgot to tell you yesterday Fisker |
| 09:33.17 | haste | but I came on your pillow |
| 09:33.17 | Fisker | i hate you haste |
| 09:33.20 | Fisker | oh |
| 09:33.24 | Fisker | i thought you had D3 beta |
| 09:33.41 | haste | maybe I do? |
| 09:36.45 | Fisker | i hope not |
| 09:37.48 | Fisker | this makes no sense |
| 09:37.56 | Fisker | on the force video playthroughs |
| 09:38.02 | Fisker | if i fullscreen the 1080p it lags |
| 09:39.26 | Fisker | but not on any other video sofar |
| 09:39.28 | Fisker | and |
| 09:39.37 | Fisker | if i fullscreen the SD version |
| 09:39.40 | Fisker | and then change to 1080p |
| 09:39.42 | Fisker | it doesn't lag |
| 09:39.43 | Fisker | O_o |
| 09:39.53 | Jamash | maybe you need new drivers/flash player/operating system/video card/personal savior |
| 09:40.14 | Jamash | also l2pressenterlessoften |
| 09:41.05 | Fisker | naw |
| 09:41.08 | Fisker | it's force man |
| 09:41.56 | Jamash | then l2usetheforce |
| 09:43.46 | Fisker | :( |
| 09:45.48 | Jamash | Luke Skywalker has used The Force! It's super effective! Death Star has fainted! |
| 09:48.35 | Jamash | AMG, I ran the beta opt-in application and I had to agree to the diablo III beta user agreement |
| 09:48.42 | Jamash | clearly that means I am now in the diablo III beta |
| 09:52.48 | Fisker | oh god |
| 09:59.03 | *** join/#wowuidev DefectiveUser (~aaron@c-71-198-23-145.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 10:02.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Monolit (~Strigoy@89.112.4.92.pppoe.eltel.net) |
| 10:04.50 | *** join/#wowuidev brykryss (~chatzilla@cpc2-craw2-0-0-cust961.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 10:25.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@5adaf39e.bb.sky.com) |
| 10:25.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 10:35.30 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (~quassel@unaffiliated/airtonix) |
| 10:36.54 | *** part/#wowuidev mckenziemc (~Mark@dialup-4.246.249.198.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net) |
| 10:48.49 | airtonix | hey |
| 10:50.29 | Fisker | hey |
| 10:52.42 | karl_w_w | hey |
| 10:53.49 | Fisker | hey |
| 10:55.06 | Kalroth | hey |
| 10:55.17 | NickG365 | hey |
| 10:55.32 | haste | hey |
| 10:55.37 | karl_w_w | hey |
| 10:55.49 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@130.225.93.63) |
| 10:57.16 | Fisker | hey |
| 11:01.00 | *** part/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@68.36.135.0) |
| 11:01.06 | airtonix | macho macho macho mannn\ |
| 11:02.45 | Fisker | no |
| 11:03.55 | airtonix | anyway |
| 11:05.00 | airtonix | Fisker: i touched your arc |
| 11:05.09 | Fisker | no |
| 11:07.42 | Jamash | hey hey we're the monkees |
| 11:08.14 | Fisker | :O? |
| 11:10.23 | Jamash | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzA_qmJkmLY |
| 11:12.22 | Fisker | i ctrl+w'd |
| 11:12.32 | Jamash | csb |
| 11:13.38 | Fisker | csb? |
| 11:16.07 | Jamash | cool story |
| 11:16.36 | Jamash | BRO |
| 11:16.49 | airtonix | what's ctrl w do? |
| 11:17.13 | Fisker | close window |
| 11:18.19 | airtonix | what happened to alt+f4 |
| 11:18.26 | airtonix | or ctrl+f4 |
| 11:18.30 | Jamash | alt-f4 is close program |
| 11:18.51 | airtonix | yeah ctrl+w does nothing on my system |
| 11:19.04 | airtonix | oh actually i just recieved $4000 |
| 11:19.13 | Jamash | in firefox at least ctrl-w is close tab |
| 11:20.01 | airtonix | anyway Jamash, back to getting work done in a text editor that isn't vi or vim |
| 11:20.14 | Jamash | good |
| 11:21.16 | Jamash | I uninstalled vi from my server but someone else put it back :( |
| 11:21.36 | airtonix | probably some neckbeard |
| 11:22.14 | Jamash | well, sort of but also not |
| 11:22.25 | airtonix | hey Jamash, did you know how much i hate cpanel |
| 11:22.49 | Jamash | my dad (beard) installed it for a woman who has a shell account on our server |
| 11:22.58 | airtonix | heresy |
| 11:23.05 | airtonix | you should report him for sensecrime |
| 11:23.16 | Jamash | IDK what cpanel is |
| 11:23.26 | airtonix | i hope you never do |
| 11:33.45 | Fisker | hey |
| 11:34.47 | Fisker | http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-september-20-2011/moment-of-zen---phoenix-car-crash-victim |
| 11:34.48 | Fisker | BAM |
| 11:36.51 | Cairenn | Okay guys, I'm about out the door. Back late Sunday night. Try to be good while I'm gone, for a change. :p ;) |
| 11:38.54 | Jamash | starts a kegger |
| 11:43.54 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 11:43.55 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 11:44.11 | Stanzilla | Fisker: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm30cepvMQA |
| 11:46.07 | Fisker | oh ok Stanzilla |
| 11:46.34 | Stanzilla | stop being racist |
| 11:47.15 | *** join/#wowuidev angayelle (~angayelle@194.250.153.105) |
| 11:47.24 | angayelle | morning all |
| 11:48.03 | angayelle | i'm wondering is there a limit for the lenght of the string the loadstring command can handle ? |
| 11:50.25 | angayelle | damn it seems there is one and not that big |
| 11:51.55 | angayelle | i have a 1700 ish string to load and run abut looks like i can't do as long as this |
| 11:52.42 | Fisker | i don't umadbro Stanzilla |
| 11:52.54 | Stanzilla | oh ok |
| 11:53.47 | Jamash | I'm as mad as a hatter |
| 12:05.23 | angayelle | ? loadstring |
| 12:05.33 | angayelle | ah bad syntax |
| 12:11.01 | Fisker | oh ok Stanzilla |
| 12:11.42 | Stanzilla | yes |
| 12:15.00 | Fisker | why is blizzard EU stupid? |
| 12:15.11 | Fisker | opening a beta feedback forum that everyone can post in |
| 12:15.19 | Fisker | then redirecting all the "OMG BETA IS LIVE" posts to that forum |
| 12:15.25 | Fisker | hurr |
| 12:17.27 | *** join/#wowuidev solocommand (~solocomma@208.86.102.194) |
| 12:20.54 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (ca312226@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.49.34.38) |
| 12:20.54 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 12:21.12 | Fisker | hey bluspacecow |
| 12:26.29 | bluspacecow | oh hai |
| 12:28.20 | Fisker | i want beta bluspacecow |
| 12:35.03 | *** join/#wowuidev kapipi (~NET@p1129-ipbfp402matsue.shimane.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 12:57.15 | Kraps | http://www.thedailyblink.com/2011/09/yes-were-in-the-d3-beta/ |
| 13:00.40 | bluspacecow | lolz |
| 13:04.38 | *** join/#wowuidev boshi23_ (~chris@c-68-36-33-236.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 13:09.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Ingela (~Ingela@90-230-170-118-no35.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 13:11.53 | Fisker | i know who Diablo is Kraps :( |
| 13:19.39 | Thunder_Child | your dad? |
| 13:26.33 | bluspacecow | your sister ? |
| 13:29.05 | Fisker | nope |
| 13:29.13 | Fisker | however since you are dicks i will now tell you |
| 13:30.09 | Thunder_Child | you talk to dicks a lot? |
| 13:30.30 | Fisker | yes |
| 13:35.07 | bluspacecow | dick da dick dick dick dick |
| 13:38.19 | Fisker | hey bluspacecow |
| 13:38.44 | bluspacecow | hey |
| 13:38.47 | bluspacecow | moooooooooooooooooo |
| 13:58.17 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~alestane@c-24-147-184-17.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 13:58.17 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 14:03.31 | *** join/#wowuidev vhaarr (~folk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Rabbit/vhaarr) |
| 14:06.47 | alestane | has to finish homework before launching the D3 beta. |
| 14:08.55 | haste | steals alestane's account. |
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| 14:48.41 | Vilkku | anyone know of any mods that modifies the guild window? |
| 14:48.46 | Vilkku | I would like to filter the roster tab for example |
| 15:01.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Motig (~Motig@a184199.upc-a.chello.nl) |
| 15:04.07 | *** join/#wowuidev daev (~bleh@184.17.240.5) |
| 15:06.47 | bluspacecow | http://i.imgur.com/qES3y.jpg |
| 15:09.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps_w (~chatzilla@static-64-61-105-166.isp.broadviewnet.net) |
| 15:16.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Dotted (~Dotted@79.138.168.205.bredband.oister.dk) |
| 15:16.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Cody (~cody@web182.webfaction.com) |
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| 15:27.18 | Kraps_w | 3 3-day holidays coming up wop wop |
| 15:27.46 | Elkano | Vilkku, FramesResized enlarges it |
| 15:27.53 | Thunder_Child | Kraps_w: it's not worth it |
| 15:28.04 | Vilkku | Elkano, okay |
| 15:28.12 | Vilkku | might be useful |
| 15:28.22 | Vilkku | what I want to do is filter the guild window |
| 15:28.27 | Vilkku | roster* |
| 15:28.40 | Vilkku | so that I could for example not show members of a specific rank, or only show a certain class |
| 15:28.45 | Vilkku | etc |
| 15:28.51 | Vilkku | I might look into it myself if it's possible |
| 15:28.53 | Vilkku | but now |
| 15:29.05 | Vilkku | I need to fix my addon so that it doesn't hide calendar events |
| 15:31.43 | Kraps_w | Thunder_Child: i know right |
| 15:31.43 | Fisker | old bluspacecow |
| 15:44.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (~Kalroth@3e6bac21.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 15:47.40 | haste | Fisker: http://img.izismile.com/img/img4/20110921/640/win_anatomy_homework_640_high_02.jpg (kinda NSFW for some I guess) someone found your homework! |
| 15:48.42 | Fisker | oh god haste |
| 15:48.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Phelps (~benphelps@75.108.68.94) |
| 15:48.44 | Fisker | she has the hots for him |
| 15:50.17 | Fisker | she does haste |
| 15:50.21 | haste | oh shi- |
| 15:50.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Yoshimo (~Miranda@p549999CF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:52.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (~Lunessa@WoWUIDev/Lunessa) |
| 15:52.37 | Lunessa | station |
| 15:53.04 | Fisker | don't tell me you don't see it haste |
| 15:56.28 | haste | I see you Fisker ! |
| 15:57.43 | Lunessa | I have you in my eye, sir. |
| 15:58.19 | Fisker | you didn't see it haste :( |
| 15:58.25 | Fisker | look how she uses a heart as the dot in the ! |
| 15:58.33 | Phelps | TROLLIN |
| 15:59.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (~Srosh@d135082.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 16:03.21 | Thunder_Child | for anyone that plays league of legends dominion is in limited avaliablity |
| 16:07.47 | *** join/#wowuidev PProvost (~PProvost@97-118-162-84.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 16:07.47 | *** join/#wowuidev PProvost (~PProvost@WoWUIDev/WAU/Admin/Pprovost) |
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| 16:47.42 | Kraps_w | oh no more raid nerfs |
| 16:48.45 | mukunda | yah we killed rag last night |
| 16:48.46 | mukunda | sup |
| 16:48.49 | Kraps_w | time for out-of-context patch notes: "Wrath of Ragnaros now knocks targets up" |
| 16:49.27 | bluspacecow | ooo |
| 16:49.31 | bluspacecow | giggity giggity |
| 16:49.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraftman (~Kraftman@212-139-243-227.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 16:49.38 | bluspacecow | didn't wear protection did he ? |
| 16:49.46 | Lunessa | I made that joke yesterday. |
| 16:49.48 | bluspacecow | .... |
| 16:50.17 | Kraps_w | well Lunessa |
| 16:50.22 | Kraps_w | YOUR MOM |
| 16:50.24 | Kraps_w | ok? |
| 16:50.31 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~alestane@c-24-147-184-17.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 16:50.31 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 16:50.42 | Lunessa | She's awesome and all that. I know. "U jelly?" |
| 16:50.51 | Kraps_w | :( |
| 16:53.10 | *** join/#wowuidev ZTrek (~IceChat77@75-144-73-170-Michigan.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 16:55.34 | ZTrek | is there an API command to drop an item into the bank? |
| 16:59.23 | Lunessa | http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api_categories |
| 16:59.33 | *** join/#wowuidev gsnerf_ (~gsnerf@dslb-088-073-001-166.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:01.09 | ZTrek | was that directed to me Lunessa? |
| 17:01.23 | Lunessa | *nod* I'm a big DYI guy. :) |
| 17:02.15 | Lunessa | More specifically - I bet you want - http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/UseInventoryItem - while the bank is open. |
| 17:02.40 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 17:02.41 | ZTrek | sure as long as it will do the trick |
| 17:03.35 | mukunda | "This function is protected and can only be called by the Blizzard user interface" :/ |
| 17:04.43 | Kraps_w | why is this a thing http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/980912-Gravity-May-Be-Leaking-Into-Our-Universe-From-Another-Dimension |
| 17:04.45 | ZTrek | that one is not protected |
| 17:05.22 | mukunda | i guess its a special case when the bank is open |
| 17:05.48 | Lunessa | You can use it to sell to a merchant, depoist to the bank, etc. |
| 17:06.09 | *** join/#wowuidev nebula169 (~nebula@c-75-73-235-102.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 17:07.12 | ZTrek | awesome thanks |
| 17:07.21 | Fisker | so Kraps_w |
| 17:07.28 | Fisker | were we supposed to float around then? :O |
| 17:08.03 | Kraps_w | fuck if i know |
| 17:11.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen (~Sixen@173-29-13-13.client.mchsi.com) |
| 17:12.33 | BlackNet | any way to automate logging into wow? |
| 17:13.41 | A-KO | no |
| 17:14.02 | mukunda | this lua manual is so hard to understand |
| 17:16.07 | Gagorian | It is? |
| 17:16.10 | cogwheel | don't read the manual |
| 17:16.12 | cogwheel | read PiL |
| 17:16.17 | Fisker | hey cogwheel |
| 17:16.18 | cogwheel | or wow programming |
| 17:16.34 | Lunessa | ^^ |
| 17:16.47 | cogwheel | the manual is for reference not learning |
| 17:16.47 | Fisker | do you do tech support cogwheel ? |
| 17:16.57 | cogwheel | Fisker: sorta |
| 17:16.59 | cogwheel | but not often |
| 17:17.02 | Fisker | oh ok |
| 17:17.08 | haste | Gagorian: for someone with a lack of programming knownledge/CS, yes, the Lua manual is techincal |
| 17:17.10 | cogwheel | most of the people around here aren't compeletly inept with computers |
| 17:17.13 | Fisker | i'm getting an error 12 when trying to login on Diablo 3 |
| 17:17.16 | Fisker | can you fix it? |
| 17:17.23 | cogwheel | FU |
| 17:17.32 | cogwheel | just sayin' |
| 17:17.38 | Fisker | :( |
| 17:17.43 | cogwheel | (i don't believe you really have D3) |
| 17:17.54 | haste | (I believe he has the client, but not the key) |
| 17:17.55 | Fisker | i do |
| 17:17.57 | Fisker | ^^ |
| 17:18.08 | cogwheel | there's your problem |
| 17:18.11 | Fisker | damn |
| 17:18.20 | Fisker | can you fix that problem then? |
| 17:18.29 | mukunda | oh, theres a readable manual |
| 17:18.33 | cogwheel | i can't even fix it for myself |
| 17:18.37 | mukunda | -_- |
| 17:18.38 | Fisker | manuals usually are mukunda |
| 17:18.39 | cogwheel | ~pil |
| 17:18.39 | purl | Programming in Lua, a book written by the authors of the Lua programming language. The first edition is available free online at http://www.lua.org/pil and covers Lua 5.0. The second edition is available in print from most online bookstores, and covers Lua 5.1. |
| 17:18.41 | cogwheel | ~wowprogramming |
| 17:18.42 | purl | extra, extra, read all about it, wowprogramming is World of Warcraft Programming: A Guide and Reference for Creating WoW Addons - http://is.gd/7A3Jx - a book written by Cladhaire (jnwhiteh) and Gazmik, or the companion site and API reference available online for free at http://wowprogramming.com |
| 17:19.01 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (stolenlega@unaffiliated/stolenlegacy) |
| 17:19.06 | cogwheel | even PiL can be a bit ... terse |
| 17:19.17 | cogwheel | but it's much more concept-based than the manual |
| 17:19.23 | mukunda | not the lua manual, i was trying to comprehend the 'for' description |
| 17:19.27 | alestane | If it's any consolation, Fisker, all the beta does for me is hang on a black screen. |
| 17:19.28 | bluspacecow | that means your D3 license hasn't be loaded properly fiskery fisker of teh fiskery fisker plains |
| 17:19.40 | Fisker | well alestane |
| 17:19.49 | Fisker | if you could fix me a license i could fix your black screen alestane |
| 17:19.49 | mukunda | in pil i see numeric for right there, which explains what i wanted easily |
| 17:20.05 | Fisker | can you load it properly for me bluspacecow ? |
| 17:20.15 | cogwheel | yeah good example... generic for trips up a lot of people at first :P |
| 17:20.22 | bluspacecow | i could slap it with my whale penis ? would that help ? |
| 17:20.40 | Fisker | i think so |
| 17:20.48 | Fisker | but you need to do it from Blizzard HQ |
| 17:21.06 | bluspacecow | oh |
| 17:21.43 | Fisker | This is a general reminder that the beta key granted through the BlizzCon 2008 'goody bag' card was for the StarCraft II beta only, and is not redeemable for Diablo III. |
| 17:21.45 | Fisker | YEEEEEEEES |
| 17:22.01 | Fisker | some dude saved his key thinking he could get the D3 beta |
| 17:22.05 | Fisker | i'm now happy |
| 17:22.18 | bluspacecow | oh rly ? |
| 17:22.21 | Fisker | i am |
| 17:22.43 | Lunessa | Poor Fisker, he can only gain happiness through the misery of others. Such a pitiable state. |
| 17:23.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Zasurus (~IceChat9@78-105-174-15.zone3.bethere.co.uk) |
| 17:23.12 | durcyn | don't knock schadenfreude until you try it |
| 17:23.19 | Fisker | ^^ |
| 17:23.25 | Fisker | though to be fair Lunessa |
| 17:23.40 | Fisker | i do recall him calling me an idiot for telling him it wasn't supposed to be for D3 |
| 17:23.43 | Lunessa | durcyn: It's not my only source of joy. |
| 17:23.48 | Fisker | so it was own damn fault |
| 17:23.52 | Fisker | was his* |
| 17:24.35 | Fisker | i will now check my server logs so i can really rub it in his face |
| 17:24.37 | *** join/#wowuidev rtharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 17:29.38 | BlackNet | wow |
| 17:29.45 | BlackNet | they keep restarting the realm server |
| 17:29.54 | BlackNet | must have had some serious brokage |
| 17:31.40 | BlackNet | odd |
| 17:31.55 | BlackNet | well the blizzard policy is if it's not broke they patch it till it is. |
| 17:33.52 | *** join/#wowuidev rtharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 17:41.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Kemayo (~kemayo@97-88-166-154.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) |
| 17:41.50 | mukunda | at least blizzard was nice enough to put in a lua error display |
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| 17:53.02 | *** join/#wowuidev gsnerf__ (~gsnerf@dslb-088-073-060-095.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
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| 17:59.11 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 18:14.35 | foxlit | Meh, sc2 is not a good game :( |
| 18:15.05 | cbreak | nah |
| 18:15.13 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy_ (~stolenleg@unaffiliated/stolenlegacy) |
| 18:15.14 | cbreak | I think it's just that most people are not good at it |
| 18:15.53 | foxlit | doesn't really matter |
| 18:15.59 | foxlit | is it a source of joy or frustration? :) |
| 18:16.08 | cbreak | do you play it? |
| 18:16.16 | cbreak | if so, then frustration. :P |
| 18:16.20 | *** join/#wowuidev stew-a (~Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 18:16.21 | cbreak | but it's fun to watch others play |
| 18:16.37 | foxlit | hence, not a good game |
| 18:16.49 | foxlit | maybe a good spectator sport, but that's beside the point |
| 18:17.12 | *** join/#wowuidev isman (~drag@mna75-2-82-67-196-34.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:17.51 | Lunessa | I haven't really played it outside of the beta. I can't really deal with the intense number of clicks required to do everything. |
| 18:18.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Antze (~Antze@87.239.27.81) |
| 18:20.08 | A-KO | I need to finsih the SC2 single player campaign |
| 18:20.13 | A-KO | I'd love to, I really like the game |
| 18:20.23 | A-KO | if I could find my damn SC2 DVD though |
| 18:20.23 | A-KO | ... |
| 18:20.36 | cbreak | don't think you need the dvd |
| 18:20.41 | cbreak | you can just download it |
| 18:20.48 | Cide | what cbreak said |
| 18:20.48 | Lunessa | ^^ |
| 18:21.08 | cbreak | let pirates rule the net! |
| 18:21.22 | Cide | ... |
| 18:21.30 | Cide | you can download it through your battle.net account |
| 18:21.31 | A-KO | cbreak: takes too long :P |
| 18:21.45 | cbreak | well... |
| 18:21.47 | bluspacecow | kk home time ! |
| 18:21.48 | Cide | 20 minutes for me |
| 18:23.02 | *** join/#wowuidev pb_ee1 (~pb_ee1@38.99.25.66) |
| 18:24.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Dotted (~Dotted@79.138.234.89.bredband.3.dk) |
| 18:29.43 | *** join/#wowuidev boshi23_ (~boshi23@c-68-39-19-87.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 18:29.43 | Thunder_Child | A-KO: you honestly think thats going to take longer than finding the disks? |
| 18:29.54 | Thunder_Child | plus you can be doing something else at the same time |
| 18:32.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraftman (~Kraftman@212-139-243-227.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 18:33.05 | *** join/#wowuidev mckenziemc (~Mark@dialup-4.246.254.23.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net) |
| 18:40.09 | Torhal|work | Lunessa: What, exactly, does DYI stand for? I know what DIY stands for... |
| 18:40.10 | Torhal|work | cackles. |
| 18:40.21 | Lunessa | Do Yourself In. :P |
| 18:40.26 | Torhal|work | Whee |
| 18:42.24 | starlon | DYIDIY? |
| 18:42.37 | mukunda | can i Texture:SetSize(w,h) Texture:SetPoint("TOPLEFT", parent, x,y ) (or vice versa) to set a rect offset from the top left, or do i need to specify both "TOPLEFT" and "BOTTOMRIGHT" still? |
| 18:43.01 | starlon | instructions |
| 18:43.17 | Stanzilla | Fisker: beta pls |
| 18:44.49 | Fisker | indeed Stanzilla |
| 18:45.39 | Fisker | if only they were better at reporting when waves go out and when they end |
| 18:46.18 | Maldivia | call the coast patrol |
| 18:46.20 | *** part/#wowuidev Xinhuan (~Xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 18:46.24 | Fisker | i coasted your mom |
| 18:46.53 | Jamash | blizzrad doesn't report anything on time |
| 18:47.14 | Fisker | they could automate it Jamash |
| 18:47.29 | Jamash | but they won't |
| 18:47.49 | Fisker | i know |
| 18:47.51 | Fisker | they're dicks |
| 18:47.55 | Fisker | they didn't invite me |
| 18:48.05 | Jamash | the most they'd do is put up a page with the word "Soon™" on it |
| 18:48.24 | Stanzilla | I bet Gnarfoz has beta |
| 18:48.51 | Gnarfoz | sure do |
| 18:49.15 | Lunessa | I'mprettysure their code checks for fisker and removes him before sending out invites. |
| 18:49.32 | Gnarfoz | want some 1h40min of uncommented Demon Hunter playthrough? (stops shortly before the Skeleton King, servers went down..., also I died once.) |
| 18:49.43 | Stanzilla | gtfo |
| 18:49.54 | Gnarfoz | it's only 1.85TiB! |
| 18:49.58 | Gnarfoz | errr... GiB. |
| 18:50.21 | durcyn | impressive codec you've got there, a terabyte per hour |
| 18:50.26 | Maldivia | Gnarfoz: alternatively, they could go laugh at Force getting frustrated with arcane enhanced mobs on youtube :P |
| 18:50.39 | Gnarfoz | arcane enchanted mobs suck balls |
| 18:51.04 | Maldivia | yeah |
| 18:51.05 | Gnarfoz | durcyn: it's Fraps 0.7, not very effective ;) |
| 18:51.10 | Gnarfoz | actually! they spew balls. |
| 18:51.13 | Gnarfoz | arcane balls. |
| 18:51.23 | Maldivia | orbs |
| 18:51.49 | Gnarfoz | I killed myself by vaulting into a group (including a rare "illusionist" mob) of harvesters :( |
| 18:51.54 | Gnarfoz | they went all explodey on me |
| 18:51.56 | Lunessa | http://notalwaysright.com/he-who-giveth/13852 |
| 18:52.13 | Lunessa | I seriously want to do exactly what this guy says he did. |
| 18:52.17 | Maldivia | illusionist can be kind of nasty, if you can't get to the "original" in time |
| 18:52.29 | Fisker | Gnarfoz is awesome |
| 18:52.41 | Fisker | because he's like totally giving me a beta invite if he ever gets the opportunity |
| 18:52.44 | Fisker | *puppy eyes* |
| 18:53.55 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~alestane@c-24-147-184-17.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 18:53.55 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 18:54.56 | Fisker | though i figure alestane would even have his beta license transferred to me now that he cant play it |
| 18:57.14 | KarlKFI | lol Lunessa |
| 18:58.28 | Lunessa | We have people here who refuse to take password security seriously and get compromised on a semi-regular basis. And every time I advocate removing their computer access entirely I get told by a director that we can't do that. |
| 18:58.29 | durcyn | pity that 98% of the content on notalwaysright is either lifted from BOFH or outright fabricated |
| 18:59.19 | Lunessa | FML, Texts From Last Night, NotAlwaysRight, Clients From Hell - a lot are fabricated or at least fictionalized. |
| 18:59.41 | Maldivia | don't forget damn you autocorrect |
| 19:00.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Telshin (~textual@173-14-207-161-huntsville.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 19:03.03 | Lunessa | This is pure fun: http://www.shouldiworkforfree.com/ |
| 19:08.34 | Kraps_w | seems to me that faking a Clients From Hell story would be too much work |
| 19:09.57 | Gnarfoz | Lunessa: don't forget http://www.commitlogsfromlastnight.com/ in that list |
| 19:10.11 | Lunessa | Hadn't seen that one before. |
| 19:11.19 | mukunda | is it easy to get how much damage the player deals at x time, or do people usually use some kind of lib for that |
| 19:11.55 | Cide | "not easy" and "there exists are library" are not the same |
| 19:12.12 | Cide | s/are library/a library/ |
| 19:12.18 | Maldivia | also depends what you mean "at x time" |
| 19:12.33 | Gnarfoz | most likely: over a given timeframe |
| 19:12.41 | Fisker | hey Gnarfoz |
| 19:12.42 | Gnarfoz | (i.e.... damage/time!) |
| 19:12.51 | mukunda | basically i just want the dps a player does over a second :/ |
| 19:12.58 | mukunda | without previous data |
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| 19:13.16 | Maldivia | I'm sure libs exists for that, but it's also quite easy to calculate |
| 19:13.31 | Maldivia | but over a second is very unreliable :P |
| 19:13.33 | mukunda | so you think it wouldnt be too hard to just use the combat log events? |
| 19:13.33 | Kraps_w | theres a lib for that |
| 19:13.37 | *** join/#wowuidev mitchnull (~opera@catv3EC9447C.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 19:13.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Dotted^ (~Dotted@95.209.211.202.bredband.oister.dk) |
| 19:13.51 | mukunda | well this isnt for recording total dps, its just to show how much output is going on during that moment |
| 19:14.19 | Lunessa | LOL - everyone wants to know "How much damage am I doing RIGHT NOW" but they all define "RIGHT NOW" "damage" and "doing" differently. So… good luck. |
| 19:14.28 | Maldivia | well, you would probably want to average over 5 seconds or so though :P |
| 19:14.54 | Cide | a, gasp, moving average?! |
| 19:14.55 | mukunda | a reasonable threshold sure -_- |
| 19:15.15 | Maldivia | Cide: yeah, very tricky stuff :P |
| 19:15.15 | mukunda | i just want it to jump up when i hit colossus smash :P |
| 19:15.39 | Cide | that's an unreasonable expectation |
| 19:15.45 | Cide | that's what the numbers on the screen are for |
| 19:15.57 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@68.36.135.0) |
| 19:15.58 | Seerah | ^^ |
| 19:16.01 | mukunda | but the meters! |
| 19:17.02 | Maldivia | well, the have a moving average window of 0.5 sec... then you'll see your dps fluctuate between 0 and [some high number] |
| 19:17.14 | Maldivia | meaning useless |
| 19:17.31 | mukunda | ill have to cheat a little bit |
| 19:17.35 | Fisker | gooddie Gnarfoz |
| 19:18.05 | mukunda | does COMBAT_LOG_EVENT_UNFILTERED give all the data i need? |
| 19:18.26 | Cide | it gives all data that exists |
| 19:18.32 | Cide | whether or not you need more is up to you |
| 19:18.46 | Seerah | more than what exists? :p |
| 19:19.17 | mukunda | http://wowprogramming.com/chapters/second-edition/21 am i supposed to buy the book |
| 19:19.20 | Gnarfoz | for one, he needs to watch the time, too ;-) |
| 19:19.46 | Seerah | mukunda: if you want to read the book, then yes. |
| 19:19.53 | Seerah | The website is supplementary. |
| 19:19.53 | Gnarfoz | since that's just an excerpt... if you want to read the whole book, you'll probably have to buy it. depending on how much you know, you perhaps don't need the book, though. |
| 19:20.34 | mukunda | http://wowprogramming.com/docs/events/COMBAT_LOG_EVENT_UNFILTERED this makes no sense :p |
| 19:21.19 | mukunda | wowwiki it is -_- |
| 19:21.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (~xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 19:21.37 | Seerah | mukunda: "makes no sense" is vague |
| 19:21.43 | Seerah | and makes no sense ;) |
| 19:21.57 | Maldivia | the information there makes sense to me :P |
| 19:22.24 | Seerah | pats the copy of wow programming next to her on the desk ;) |
| 19:22.34 | Seerah | and points mukunda to wowpedia |
| 19:23.04 | mukunda | im not sure what the difference is between wowwiki and wowpedia, is wowpedia newer |
| 19:23.17 | Seerah | yes. with most of the staff from wowwiki |
| 19:24.09 | mukunda | -_- |
| 19:24.18 | durcyn | the drama creation squad forked it when they couldn't use some dumb skin, so now there are two out of date wikis instead of one. |
| 19:24.19 | mukunda | wowwiki is always the top link in google, where wowpedia isnt even shown |
| 19:24.44 | Seerah | what was your search query? |
| 19:24.55 | mukunda | COMBAT_LOG_EVENT_UNFILTERED |
| 19:25.42 | Seerah | http://www.wowpedia.org/Portal:Main |
| 19:25.54 | mukunda | i just changed wowwiki.com to wowpedia.org |
| 19:25.55 | Maldivia | searching for that, gives me wowpedia as the 6th link, forums are the 3 first, then 2x wowprogramming, then wowpedia |
| 19:26.09 | Seerah | http://www.wowpedia.org/COMBAT_LOG_EVENT_UNFILTERED |
| 19:27.41 | mukunda | is chaosbolt also physical damage? :p |
| 19:28.35 | Maldivia | no |
| 19:28.37 | mukunda | yeah nevermind me |
| 19:33.43 | Fisker | i'm hurr hurring |
| 19:38.38 | Kraps_w | you're always hurr hurring Fisker |
| 19:39.14 | Fisker | :( |
| 19:39.18 | Fisker | but this time it was funny |
| 19:39.31 | Fisker | someone complaining about Diablo 3 being too easy when they remove stat allocation |
| 19:39.53 | Fisker | then now he's saying that no stat allocation means he can't pump everything in vitality and survive hardcore as easy :( |
| 19:39.57 | Fisker | (hoho) |
| 19:45.30 | Kraps_w | TIL rand mcnally made the interstate numbering system |
| 19:48.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Wa (~wa@50.45.210.123) |
| 19:48.13 | mukunda | to the training dummies! |
| 19:52.17 | Torhal|work | forks durcyn. |
| 20:07.23 | Lunessa | cogwheel: http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/09/how-should-we-make-hard-decisions/ This is relevant to your interests. |
| 20:11.19 | mukunda | do i ever have to care about a timestamp resetting back to 0 |
| 20:12.55 | Dagmar | always? |
| 20:13.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Antiarc (~Chris@ip70-162-121-246.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 20:13.41 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 20:13.41 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 20:13.41 | *** join/#wowuidev isman (~drag@mna75-2-82-67-196-34.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:14.21 | mukunda | ? like the timestamps from the server, its like 13 billion right now, when does it reset |
| 20:14.36 | Maldivia | mukunda: in the year 2038 |
| 20:14.59 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@c-68-62-172-239.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 20:15.08 | mukunda | ok wow will be dead by then anyway right :] |
| 20:15.12 | Dagmar | The day Flaming Internets Will Fall From The Sky And Kill Us All. |
| 20:15.21 | Dagmar | Also known as YFFFFFFFF |
| 20:16.03 | cbreak | why Y and not S? |
| 20:16.05 | Maldivia | mukunda: to be more precise, on JAn 19th, 2038 at 3:14:07 am, UTC |
| 20:16.15 | Dagmar | "Year" |
| 20:16.37 | mukunda | how do you know they arent using more bits of precision! |
| 20:16.46 | Dagmar | After that many "F"s no one wants to hear a "K" |
| 20:16.46 | Maldivia | well, they are |
| 20:16.51 | mukunda | it is in milliseconds afterall |
| 20:17.02 | Dagmar | IF they *were* using more bits we woudlnt' have this problem |
| 20:17.24 | Dagmar | The good news is that we're on track for the computers picking a new standard for us before then |
| 20:17.42 | Maldivia | and the bad news is that we're on track for the computers picking a new standard for us before then |
| 20:17.53 | Dagmar | I look forward to our future cybernetic overlords and their benevolent stewardship. |
| 20:18.25 | Maldivia | Dagmar: just remember to take the blue pill |
| 20:18.49 | Dagmar | I will be suprised if I have to take a pill at all |
| 20:19.02 | Dagmar | In any case, you don't want me on that side of the fence. |
| 20:19.16 | Dagmar | Neo never got drunk and nuked an entire uni during exam week |
| 20:19.25 | Maldivia | well, neo also took the red pill |
| 20:20.16 | cbreak | OS X uses 64 bit posix time afaik |
| 20:20.44 | Dagmar | Well, so does a lot of stuff. |
| 20:20.47 | cbreak | Linux probably uses every posix time format imaginable depending on compile flags |
| 20:20.48 | Dagmar | ...but where's the fun in that? |
| 20:21.04 | cbreak | Windows might still use dos based local time or something |
| 20:21.11 | Dagmar | How are we expected to get people so freaked out about this that they'll buy CAT FOOD IN DRUMS at premium prices? |
| 20:21.21 | Adys | Relink here, fucking cheap shots: http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2011/09/windows-8-secure-boot-will-complicate-linux-installs.ars |
| 20:21.24 | Dagmar | cbreak: It fucking does. Damn them. |
| 20:21.38 | Dagmar | Adys: I don't see them keeping that |
| 20:21.43 | cbreak | Adys: isn't that the point of secure boot? :) |
| 20:22.06 | Dagmar | Adys: I see a lot of vendors saying "That's a shitload of work no one's paying us to do guys." |
| 20:22.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (~chatzilla@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 20:22.16 | Adys | Dagmar: I thought the same |
| 20:22.17 | cbreak | to control the whole boot procedure and cryptographically sign it, so you can DRM your buyers for your real customers |
| 20:22.20 | Adys | doesnt make it any cheaper |
| 20:22.40 | Dagmar | I also see myself using pretty standard BIOS editing tools to rip that shit out |
| 20:22.56 | foxlit | uefi =?= bios? |
| 20:23.06 | Dagmar | ...and me not having to comply with a damn thing in the Windows 8 badging program because I buy, build, and install my own shit |
| 20:23.21 | Adys | foxlit: ? |
| 20:23.37 | Dagmar | Yes, I'm quite aware UEFI is not quite the same, thanks. |
| 20:23.42 | foxlit | it's an equality sign with a question mark above it |
| 20:23.46 | Dagmar | It is however, still driven by upgradable firmware. |
| 20:23.50 | Adys | what's that supposed to mean |
| 20:24.14 | cbreak | why aren't they just signing linux? |
| 20:24.16 | foxlit | It's supposed to invite you to assert that either == or =/= holds. |
| 20:24.22 | cbreak | code sign certs aren't hard to come by |
| 20:24.25 | Dagmar | I've never really had much trouble getting my hands on award, ami, and phoenix tampering tools. |
| 20:24.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (~Srosh@d135082.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 20:24.42 | foxlit | cbreak: why aren't they just signing rootkits? |
| 20:24.51 | Adys | cbreak: this is explained in the article |
| 20:24.53 | Dagmar | foxlit; I see what u did thar |
| 20:24.57 | cbreak | foxlit: because it's not needed? |
| 20:25.14 | foxlit | it would be if signatures were required |
| 20:25.16 | Adys | foxlit: do you have any more of those smil-- er, of those equality signs? |
| 20:25.22 | cbreak | (but, have you ever heard of stuxnet? It comes with a _signed_ driver :) |
| 20:25.24 | Adys | I'd like to add them to msn. |
| 20:25.31 | cbreak | because drivers have to be signed |
| 20:25.31 | Dagmar | cbreak: Yep. :) |
| 20:25.36 | foxlit | Adys: \neq |
| 20:25.46 | Dagmar | More importantly, they need to be signed by an important shadowy government agent |
| 20:25.55 | Adys | I like, I like |
| 20:26.11 | Dagmar | I find it terribly amusing that people are only NOW getting excited about CAs |
| 20:26.34 | Dagmar | This has been what... year seven or eight in a long string of incidents |
| 20:26.51 | Dagmar | It's pretty much a given that every CA is compromised. It's just a matter of by who. |
| 20:26.55 | Adys | because it just hit microsoft that "Oh, we could just do that" |
| 20:27.08 | Dagmar | If the FBI wants to tap your shit, and files the right paperwork, you get a very special Windows Update. |
| 20:27.14 | foxlit | Meh, it is a good idea anyway |
| 20:27.28 | Adys | How is it a good idea in any way? |
| 20:28.03 | foxlit | It would prevent unauthorized modification to your system. |
| 20:28.07 | Dagmar | WEll, it's semi useful if you install Moxie's addon |
| 20:28.15 | Dagmar | ..cept that only works in the browser |
| 20:28.26 | Adys | malware that's persistent enough to tap into bios and all that shit will no doubt be persistent enough to circumvent this or get signed |
| 20:28.30 | cbreak | the reasons they give are kind of bad |
| 20:28.34 | Dagmar | Mainly it's a question of "Do you trust X" and the answer should really be "Trust no one" |
| 20:28.36 | cbreak | "GPLv3 makes us release the keys" |
| 20:28.39 | cbreak | then just do that! |
| 20:28.39 | foxlit | That's a nice "no doubt" you have there. |
| 20:28.48 | cbreak | releasing private keys isn't illegal |
| 20:28.59 | Maldivia | well, it kind of defeats the purpose |
| 20:29.01 | Adys | it's fucking stupid. |
| 20:29.01 | Dagmar | cbreak: That brings up an interesting point. Why is this supposedly not a problem for Sony |
| 20:29.14 | foxlit | It's fine. It all depends on whose keys are important here |
| 20:29.20 | Dagmar | Sony's Dash has GPL code all through it, and there is no way to properly replicate their environment, at all. |
| 20:29.28 | Adys | Secondly, in the near future the design of the kernel will mean that the kernel itself is part of the bootloader. This means that kernels will also have to be signed. Making it impossible for users or developers to build their own kernels is not practical. |
| 20:29.32 | Adys | ^ |
| 20:29.34 | cbreak | Dagmar: v2 vs v3? |
| 20:29.47 | foxlit | meh, fud. |
| 20:29.50 | cbreak | Adys: just sign that too :) |
| 20:30.00 | Adys | what, and release the keys too? :P |
| 20:30.04 | foxlit | This all depends on the mechanism they use to ensure trust. |
| 20:30.05 | cbreak | yeah |
| 20:30.06 | Dagmar | 2 with some LGPL on the side |
| 20:30.15 | cbreak | not like the bootloader can download a revocation list :) |
| 20:30.23 | Maldivia | cbreak: and then every one making bootkits/rootkits can get the private key, and sign their shit, and then the signature check is worth nothing |
| 20:30.24 | Adys | as Maldivia said this defeats the purpose |
| 20:30.27 | foxlit | As long as you can load your own root CA on your own hardware, there are only benefits |
| 20:30.33 | cbreak | Maldivia: yes! |
| 20:30.34 | Adys | and |
| 20:30.37 | cbreak | and that means victory |
| 20:30.38 | Adys | it would have to be included by OEMs |
| 20:30.42 | Dagmar | I'm doing to do things a bit differently to get around that. Waiting on a part to come in to just remotely mount it's goddamn storage |
| 20:31.04 | cbreak | Adys: only has to be included by OEMs if it is not already |
| 20:31.04 | Dagmar | Screw their code signing crap |
| 20:31.10 | Adys | and OEMs that wouldn't be nice enough to add a "disable bullshit" button will not give a shit about including linux keys |
| 20:31.13 | cbreak | if you get a cert from some CA that is already included |
| 20:31.17 | cbreak | it should work right away |
| 20:31.24 | Dagmar | I'm reasonably sure the latest Chumby firmware will "just work" on it |
| 20:31.27 | Adys | thats a big if |
| 20:31.37 | cbreak | well, they must have included some CAs |
| 20:31.43 | cbreak | or windows won't work either |
| 20:31.48 | Dagmar | ...and I'm willing to sacrifice the thing to find out rather than let Sony keep control of it with the retarded way it does it's intenet-dependent alarm clock. |
| 20:31.58 | Adys | or microsoft pays them to use one specific CA and include that specific CA |
| 20:31.58 | foxlit | Load Microsoft's root CA onto a machine that's shipping with windows |
| 20:32.10 | foxlit | Have a physical jumper on the motherboard that you can short if you want to overwrite keys |
| 20:32.14 | foxlit | problem solved. |
| 20:32.16 | Fisker | baww Maldivia |
| 20:32.26 | Fisker | imma F5'ing my account like crazy here |
| 20:32.32 | cbreak | what for? |
| 20:32.56 | Dagmar | The important thing you're missing about cryptographically signed UEFI boots is that... it means money has to be paid |
| 20:33.18 | Maldivia | Fisker, here you go, one beta key: GDRYJG-EFE8-THBYMB-R7PZ-RGFW4H |
| 20:33.38 | Dagmar | So, the people selling CAs will never say a word against it, and definitely be interested in downplaying anything that looks like a shortcoming, and trumpeting the rather dubious benefits to the heavens. |
| 20:33.54 | Dagmar | Because, you know, signed firmware updates are really keeping iPhones from being rooted |
| 20:33.56 | Fisker | baw Maldivia |
| 20:34.01 | foxlit | Dagmar: can you load your own root CA certs into the hardware? |
| 20:34.04 | Dagmar | That plan has worked out great for Apple. |
| 20:34.17 | Dagmar | foxlit; Pfft. Give me the equipment and a month and ask |
| 20:34.19 | Dagmar | heh |
| 20:34.21 | A-KO | I'm sure they'll figure it out |
| 20:34.30 | foxlit | It's more like "go read the specs" |
| 20:34.33 | A-KO | the sky isn't falling :P |
| 20:34.40 | Fisker | i hope EU does another anti-trust shit |
| 20:34.43 | Fisker | and then Microsoft is like |
| 20:34.48 | Fisker | FINE we'll just disable booting |
| 20:34.53 | Fisker | and everyone has to install grub to boot windows |
| 20:34.58 | Dagmar | There is not hardware manufactured that you can not clip some shit onto and just overwrite it if it's flashable at all |
| 20:35.00 | Fisker | and then they dump the price due to that |
| 20:35.11 | Fisker | and then EU is like "Oh ok we can't actually use our OS, then nvm" |
| 20:35.22 | Fisker | but by then i already got windows 8 cheap |
| 20:35.27 | A-KO | I'm sure the sky isn't falling because of this |
| 20:35.28 | Dagmar | ...and thanks to the economies of scale, it's usually cheaper to get said clip the more units are in production |
| 20:35.29 | foxlit | surely there are tamper-proof devices. |
| 20:35.30 | A-KO | chill out :P |
| 20:35.40 | foxlit | but it strikes me that this wouldn't be tamper-proof by design. |
| 20:35.46 | Dagmar | foxlit; Yes, they're filled with epoxy and no one makes them anymore save Vasco |
| 20:36.23 | cbreak | there are lots of tamper proof things |
| 20:36.24 | mukunda | http://www.wowpedia.org/API_COMBAT_LOG_EVENT#Examples is that select(10,...) an error? should it be select(12,...)? |
| 20:36.33 | Dagmar | Unless these boards are going to be coming with large black blob of epoxy in one corner, it's not going to mean shit |
| 20:36.34 | cbreak | there was a very interesting talk at the last CCC on how to hack them :) |
| 20:36.54 | Dagmar | ALl it will mean is that it'll take some specialized knowledge and a number of people poking at it and those things will be wide open again |
| 20:37.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Sintacks (Syntax@173.80.100.207) |
| 20:37.18 | Dagmar | In the meantime, Microsoft gets to add another bullet-point to their "benefits of giving us money for Windows 8" flyer |
| 20:38.10 | foxlit | mukunda: yes |
| 20:38.25 | mukunda | okay, just now learning about the select function :/ |
| 20:38.40 | foxlit | Dagmar: I think you're overdramatizing things. |
| 20:38.49 | mukunda | im glad the refernce doesnt mention if its 1 or 0 based |
| 20:38.52 | Dagmar | I think this shit has happened before |
| 20:38.58 | Dagmar | TCPA. |
| 20:39.06 | Dagmar | F-f-f-ailed. |
| 20:39.09 | foxlit | yeah, I totally cannot boot because of that :) |
| 20:39.22 | foxlit | I doubt the intention is to prevent you, as the owner of the physical hardware, from doing anything |
| 20:39.29 | A-KO | agreed foxlit |
| 20:39.37 | A-KO | it's not going to create this concept of "Windows-only" devices |
| 20:39.38 | Dagmar | No, it's meant to make money by selling bogus promises to stupid people. Nothing more. |
| 20:39.44 | A-KO | not really |
| 20:39.53 | Dagmar | THat it fucks over the dirty hippie market is just a beneficial side-effect. |
| 20:40.03 | A-KO | Being required to "support" versus "mandated" is a big difference |
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| 20:40.29 | Maldivia | btw Antiarc... curse you! |
| 20:40.38 | A-KO | It gives the option to, if you want, turn on the extra security benefits it'll provide |
| 20:40.44 | Fisker | why should Antiarc get cursed? |
| 20:40.46 | Dagmar | ...which are nearly none |
| 20:41.16 | Dagmar | Just like the "Trusted" Computing platform, it doesn't benefit the consumer |
| 20:41.21 | Maldivia | Fisker: youtube... billie jean... slippery moon walk |
| 20:41.28 | A-KO | Dagmar: how is it no security benefit? |
| 20:41.38 | Fisker | oh ok Maldivia |
| 20:41.41 | Fisker | i think i'll sleep |
| 20:41.46 | Dagmar | The only thing that was "Trusted" in that equation was that the manufacturer could almost trust that the consumer wasn't doing anything "unsupported" |
| 20:42.27 | Dagmar | The only thing this is going to do is give Microsoft a small degree of "trust" that the OS wasn't pirated, and perhaps they'll pimp that out to third party vendors as well |
| 20:42.49 | Dagmar | I sure as crap don't think this is going to stop viruses unless WIndows intends to switch to whitelist management |
| 20:43.06 | A-KO | It won't stop viruses, it will help prevent them from dropping into the boot sector |
| 20:43.08 | Dagmar | ...and that would stomp viruses *without* this |
| 20:43.14 | Dagmar | A-KO" Almost none do that |
| 20:43.20 | Dagmar | It's a complete red-herring. |
| 20:43.22 | A-KO | for now |
| 20:43.34 | A-KO | haven't followed tdss/tdl have you? heh |
| 20:43.42 | A-KO | it's fairly nasty |
| 20:43.46 | A-KO | and does just that |
| 20:43.50 | Dagmar | The few things that *do* tamper with that (HP print drivers, what?) have this distressing tendency to break the shit out of grub2 |
| 20:44.10 | A-KO | sure, that's assuming you're running grub in your boot loader |
| 20:44.24 | A-KO | just a sec, let me get a hand count of people running grub as their boot loader in here? |
| 20:44.25 | A-KO | how many? |
| 20:44.33 | A-KO | yeah... |
| 20:44.44 | Dagmar | Well, that's true. LILO is completely unbothered. Might as well be printing the virus onto a dot matrix printer for all the good it does |
| 20:45.09 | A-KO | tdl does some really nasty stuff with regards to boot sectors, drivers, and partitioning |
| 20:45.12 | Dagmar | A-KO: Everyone running not-Slackware distros basically heh |
| 20:45.41 | A-KO | you assume a majority of this channel runs Linux |
| 20:45.48 | A-KO | I'd really beg to differ on that |
| 20:46.03 | A-KO | I would imagine the combination of Windows + OSX dwarfs that of the linux crowd :P |
| 20:46.14 | Dagmar | Oh no, I don't assume that |
| 20:46.24 | Dagmar | I just don't give a shit what happens to windows users anymore. |
| 20:46.48 | A-KO | you assume it doesn't happen on linux. I've got a few backdoor shells to sell you :P |
| 20:46.59 | Dagmar | Oh I know it doesn't happen on *my* linux |
| 20:47.10 | A-KO | but it can |
| 20:47.26 | Dagmar | ...and comets can strike the ocean and terminate all life on the planet. |
| 20:47.40 | A-KO | as far as server compromises go I can bet you that linux is the #1 compromised environment out there |
| 20:47.51 | Dagmar | More word-game bullshit |
| 20:48.03 | Adys | A-KO: retarded statement detector overloaded |
| 20:48.05 | A-KO | word game bullshit? it's the honest truth |
| 20:48.06 | Dagmar | I'll counter with "GNU is not Linux" |
| 20:48.26 | Dagmar | The only reaosn anyone can ever make that claim or something even resembling it is by including everything that every Linux distro ships |
| 20:48.30 | Dagmar | That is a *LOT* of shit |
| 20:48.59 | Dagmar | The only way to make that fair is to go ahead and re-include all versions of WIndows right back to WIndows for Workgroups in with the Windows camp |
| 20:49.03 | Adys | (late reply) "microsoft made us do it" is the worst possible reason to do something |
| 20:49.05 | A-KO | Dagmar: And theo nly way to make the opposite claim is to use the no true scotsman defense |
| 20:49.07 | Adys | especially release private keys |
| 20:49.11 | Dagmar | ...in whcih case OSX comes out ahead by virtue of no one runs it |
| 20:49.17 | A-KO | "well, no TRUE linux server runs Ubuntu!" |
| 20:49.22 | A-KO | etc. |
| 20:49.34 | Dagmar | No, 'That vulnerability applies to a GNU tool, not the Linux kernel." |
| 20:49.35 | Adys | secure your fucking server |
| 20:49.52 | A-KO | Adys: You'd be surprised at how few people do it, even fewer understand it |
| 20:50.01 | Adys | that doesnt help your claim |
| 20:50.15 | Adys | if you install a malware you wrote yourself on your own damn server you cant claim "the OS my server runs is comprimised! It's shit!" |
| 20:50.26 | A-KO | all it takes is to get some coded loaded on the server and get a local privilege escalation going |
| 20:50.42 | A-KO | don't even need that depending on what you want to accomplish with it |
| 20:50.47 | Adys | and that last bit is a lot more common on windows than on linux |
| 20:51.01 | A-KO | Let's put it this way, and I'm going to be very, very blunt here. |
| 20:51.03 | A-KO | so please |
| 20:51.05 | A-KO | listen |
| 20:51.14 | Adys | no, you lost your chance to make a sensible argument a while back |
| 20:51.16 | Adys | afk |
| 20:51.48 | A-KO | A *vast* majority of the IT security industry, and I do mean most of the contractors surrounding Washington DC, are *entirely* based on Linux, and Linux only. In fact, a *vast* majority of the people I know in the field know *very little* about Windows. |
| 20:51.52 | A-KO | consider that as it may |
| 20:52.20 | A-KO | believe me, it happens more often than you think and you're a fucking tool if you don't realize that. |
| 20:55.48 | Dagmar | The edge there is that LInux is not a monoculture |
| 20:56.04 | Dagmar | Our shit is all fundamentally incompatible with each others. Heh |
| 20:56.26 | Dagmar | Any code that LOOKS like it can run anywhere should be considered immediately suspect |
| 20:56.57 | A-KO | Sure, I am very familiar with the fact that things vary significantly from distro to distro......and often times in very incompatible ways, but at the same time, to say that it's not vulnerable due to the virtue of the OS/kernel it's running is a bit of a stretch. |
| 20:57.00 | A-KO | a far bit of a stretch |
| 20:57.10 | A-KO | It's just easy to pick on Windows :P |
| 20:57.13 | A-KO | and the end users |
| 20:57.14 | Dagmar | No, it's a perfectly reasonable statement to make |
| 20:57.20 | A-KO | not even close |
| 20:57.27 | Dagmar | The vast majority of the exploits against "Linux" have nothing to do with Linux at all. |
| 20:57.40 | Dagmar | They're exploits against various GNU tools and other open-source programs. |
| 20:57.55 | A-KO | sure, but the same could be said on Windows then, the only difference is it's one vendor providing the tools versus many. |
| 20:57.57 | Dagmar | It is an invalid comparison to even attempt to use that same scope when applied to Windows in that context. |
| 20:57.59 | A-KO | but even then |
| 20:58.07 | A-KO | the linux kernel goes through vulnerabilites all of the time, itself. |
| 20:58.16 | A-KO | it's no stranger to escalation exploits |
| 20:58.18 | Dagmar | Nowhere near the number that Windows shipts |
| 20:58.30 | Dagmar | ...and we're not in freaking denial about those issues. |
| 20:58.44 | A-KO | To be honest, a vast majority of the escalation exploits that Windows gets aren't even software exploits, usually social engineering to begin with |
| 20:58.54 | Dagmar | We didn't invent "Patch Tuesday" as a formal mechanism for downplaying the number of security-critical patches we ship |
| 20:58.55 | A-KO | a vast majority of the malware goes "click here and let me pwn your computer" |
| 20:59.12 | Dagmar | OH YAY DANCING CURSORS! |
| 20:59.37 | A-KO | trust me, as a systems Administrator/engineer, I love Patch Tuesday, unlike the "hey look we're going to spring a patch on you at 3am today when we feel like updating the code to the repos, and all, now you have to consider going out of band to do maintenance so you don't get rooted. Good luck!" |
| 21:00.02 | Dagmar | I'd also like to point out that by that same standard you have to include Adobe on the Windows side since their products are actually supported. |
| 21:00.09 | Dagmar | At that point, you are *fucked* |
| 21:00.21 | A-KO | not if you build your Windows environment correctly |
| 21:00.41 | Dagmar | No, Adobe has no problems with distributing broken code even in that environment |
| 21:01.21 | Dagmar | I can drop the number of yearly issues under Linux to single digits just as easily with a few SELinux policies if you want to use the "do it right" argument |
| 21:01.48 | Dagmar | To me it comes down to one thing and that's the weak link in the chain. |
| 21:01.50 | Dagmar | Fucking users. |
| 21:02.05 | A-KO | and if you "do it right" in a Windows network, hell, if you have even half a brain, you can completely prevent local worm outbreaks (do they even exist anymore?), and you can prevent a vast majority of malware exploits. |
| 21:02.13 | Dagmar | Microsoft's fancy UEFI plans won't do a thing to stop that problem |
| 21:02.15 | A-KO | and that's not even trying |
| 21:02.39 | A-KO | no, it won't, but it will help. I happen to like the UEFI plans and I'm sure they're not going to pull something that people are saying regarding the sky falling about open source OS' |
| 21:02.49 | Dagmar | ...and until Ubuntu came along, mostly Windows had a complete lock on the 'drooling dumbass' camp because those people couldn't beg a distro to install |
| 21:02.55 | A-KO | again, requiring *support* for it and mandating hardware use it is a different thing entirely |
| 21:03.31 | Dagmar | A-KO; Oh I figure the manufacturers are just going to collectively say "We have no problem letting Dell absorb those costs and selling people unencumbered motherboards at a premium" |
| 21:03.39 | A-KO | MS can say, "To get Windows 8 logo support, you need to be able to do this in the firmware" That's a far cry from "Windows will not boot on the system unless you do this." |
| 21:03.56 | A-KO | Dagmar: Believe me when I say this, the anti-trust monkeys will never let it happen on that scale. |
| 21:04.05 | Dagmar | THat would entertain me greatly |
| 21:04.22 | Dagmar | That *would* actually probably be actionable under those statues |
| 21:04.32 | Dagmar | It would also open some other intersting 5C-related fronts |
| 21:04.46 | Dagmar | Those are looong overdue for addressing. |
| 21:04.50 | A-KO | I've done TPM-related work in Windows via bitlocker, as well as quite a few systems that support UEFI, and this is nothing more than an extension of what's already been in existence, for example, Bitlocker flips its shit if the MBR or BIOS settings are modified. |
| 21:05.14 | Dagmar | Yeah so you know this this will be a) simple to break and b) hilarious |
| 21:05.48 | cbreak | modern TPMs are optional. I think even linux supports them. |
| 21:06.08 | cbreak | and from what I heard they are quite secure, in their limitted scope |
| 21:06.20 | cbreak | (about as secure as a smart card) |
| 21:06.55 | A-KO | This is nothing more than an extension of what's already there, it's extending the protection to drivers and boot applications now.... |
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| 21:07.19 | A-KO | higher end business laptops have already had UEFI for a little bit now |
| 21:07.28 | cbreak | macs had EFI since many years |
| 21:07.35 | cbreak | not sure what the difference to UEFI is |
| 21:07.35 | A-KO | yeah :( |
| 21:07.41 | A-KO | renamed |
| 21:07.45 | A-KO | :P |
| 21:07.47 | cbreak | yay |
| 21:07.49 | A-KO | more or less |
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| 21:08.11 | A-KO | The original EFI (Extensible Firmware Interface) specification was developed by Intel. From 2005 development of the EFI specification ceased in favour of UEFI, which was evolved from EFI 1.10. The UEFI spec is being developed by the Unified EFI Forum, an industry-wide organization. Computer literature commonly uses "EFI" to refer to "UEFI". |
| 21:08.47 | A-KO | if anything uefi gives us a whole lot more options with systems than we've previously had, I haven't dived into it as much as I'd like to due to it not being as widely documented and used yet. |
| 21:09.23 | Dagmar | I am not expecting any of it to overrule the "the hardware is in the hands of the enemy" problem |
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| 21:09.28 | Dagmar | I like the fancy boot stuff tho |
| 21:09.36 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO^^ (as@2001:470:1f07:115d:10df:61db:9a0b:baf1) |
| 21:09.42 | A-KO^^ | guess my tunnel dropped :P |
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| 21:21.08 | mukunda | i need a better method for the running average -_- |
| 21:25.04 | Fisker | whoops |
| 21:25.08 | Fisker | i just F5'd Gnarfoz |
| 21:26.32 | Thunder_Child | refreshed him? |
| 21:26.48 | Fisker | yes Thunder_Child |
| 21:27.34 | Fisker | baw |
| 21:27.38 | Fisker | still no Diablo 3 .( |
| 21:27.41 | Fisker | even lost an eye |
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| 21:39.48 | Stanzilla | :( |
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| 21:55.35 | Fisker | yus Stanzilla |
| 21:55.36 | Fisker | YUS |
| 21:55.39 | Fisker | you get a bullet |
| 21:55.41 | Fisker | you get a bullet |
| 21:55.45 | Fisker | EVERYBODY GETS A FREE BULLET |
| 21:56.12 | Stanzilla | giev beta instead |
| 21:58.47 | Fisker | Blizzard used to be cool |
| 22:06.39 | Fisker | did you use to be cool Stanzilla ? |
| 22:06.49 | foxlit | http://thehill.com/homenews/house/182729-house-dems-push-bill-to-overturn-citizens-united-ruling << ew, comments |
| 22:06.59 | Stanzilla | Fisker: i'm still cool |
| 22:07.16 | Sintacks | AceTimer-3.0: CancelTimer(handle[, silent]): 'SendQuery' - no such timer registered |
| 22:07.24 | Sintacks | I get that every time I join a raid, and a different one when I leave it... |
| 22:07.46 | Sintacks | AceTimer-3.0: CancelTimer(handle[, silent]): 'SendReply' - no such timer registered |
| 22:07.46 | Sintacks | D: |
| 22:08.33 | Fisker | i disagree Stanzilla |
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| 22:08.47 | Stanzilla | that's not a very nice thing to say Fisker |
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| 22:10.56 | Fisker | i disagree? |
| 22:11.06 | Stanzilla | you can't |
| 22:11.12 | Fisker | but i want to |
| 22:11.17 | KarlKFI | he just did |
| 22:16.05 | mckenziemc | i disagree KarlKFI |
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| 22:18.15 | KarlKFI | i'm glad |
| 22:18.28 | mckenziemc | :( |
| 22:18.44 | Torhal|work | gives KarlKFI a mckenziemc-stuffed olive. |
| 22:19.04 | mckenziemc | go to sleep Torhal|work |
| 22:19.12 | Torhal|work | No. |
| 22:41.07 | KarlKFI | Torhal: is it a black olive? |
| 22:43.21 | Torhal|work | KarlKFI: Damn it. I'll have to stuff one. |
| 22:44.43 | Lunessa | Why are physics professors asking me about battery life and extedning it? |
| 22:47.35 | Fisker | damn Maldivia |
| 22:47.57 | Fisker | i hate this launcher calling insertRandomDelayBasedOnTheTimeSinceYouBooted(); |
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| 22:51.40 | Kraps | http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/demotivational-posters-actually2.jpg |
| 22:52.07 | BlackNet | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRXPrT52jgs |
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| 22:59.17 | Mr_Rabies | we oneshotted baleroc our first time in while single tanking it, it's always been an easy fight |
| 22:59.31 | Mr_Rabies | and we're not super hardcore or anything |
| 23:00.38 | BlackNet | was drop dead easy before the nerf bat :( |
| 23:02.00 | Mr_Rabies | i'm happy more people will get to see dead ragnaros |
| 23:02.02 | foxlit | Kraps: wait, isn't the outer label supposed to be straight? |
| 23:02.22 | Mr_Rabies | i think the nerfs were a bit premature but i just raid to see the content |
| 23:02.38 | Kraps | outer label? |
| 23:02.44 | foxlit | 66% |
| 23:03.10 | Kraps | i was ignoring the text |
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| 23:24.11 | Fisker | this is unacceptable Stanzilla |
| 23:24.16 | Stanzilla | yes |
| 23:24.18 | Fisker | someone posted on the EU forums and apparently got a cd-key |
| 23:24.22 | Fisker | this makes no sense |
| 23:24.27 | Fisker | maybe Gnarfoz has cd-keys |
| 23:24.32 | Fisker | like invite a friend or something :O |
| 23:25.38 | Gnarfoz | I don't, but yes, Blizzard said in the official "beta time" post that random activation directly to bnet accounts AND keys are ways of getting in |
| 23:25.44 | Gnarfoz | also, sleepytime |
| 23:26.21 | Fisker | yeah Gnarfoz |
| 23:26.34 | Fisker | but if you're Blizzard friends your account gets activated |
| 23:26.40 | Fisker | and if you opt-in your account gets activated |
| 23:26.46 | Fisker | so from which source is this illusive key |
| 23:27.02 | Gnarfoz | the obvious one you already stated *shrug* |
| 23:27.48 | Fisker | well Gnarfoz |
| 23:27.57 | Fisker | apparently they're talking about preorder copies too |
| 23:28.02 | Fisker | anyway i'll let you sleep |
| 23:28.03 | Fisker | for now |
| 23:34.27 | starlon | gives Fisker a beta fish. |
| 23:34.39 | Fisker | betta fish starlon |
| 23:34.39 | Fisker | pls |
| 23:34.48 | starlon | :) |
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| 23:53.41 | Torhal | I hope you have a betta time tomorrow, Fisker. |
| 23:53.43 | Torhal | :D |
