| 01:34.06 | *** join/#wowuidev purl (~purl@rikers.org) |
| 01:34.06 | *** topic/#wowuidev is http://pastebin.com || 4.2.x ToC: 40200 || #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting || "There is one coin we all have to spend, and it is infinitely precious - our time." - Lunessa |
| 01:34.16 | Cide | is the only sensical use |
| 01:34.31 | airtonix | but if the key is there as a string then it's just bad habit |
| 01:34.47 | airtonix | like : cleaned_parameters = clean_all(**{'term': term, 'location': location}) |
| 01:34.52 | Cide | yes |
| 01:36.53 | *** join/#wowuidev karl_w_w (~karl@203-59-65-205.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 01:51.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (~Kandoko@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
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| 01:57.53 | karl_w_w | http://i52.tinypic.com/2814f4k.jpg score! |
| 01:58.12 | Dagmar | w00t! |
| 01:58.22 | Dagmar | Now there's an aisle at the store you'd want to camp |
| 01:59.01 | karl_w_w | or a gift you want to give to insult somebody :P |
| 02:00.08 | Dagmar | Well, not to sound crass, but you *know* someone buying that would probably think very highly of a dinner in a nice restaurant |
| 02:00.13 | Dagmar | :) |
| 02:00.20 | karl_w_w | haha |
| 02:04.45 | Cairenn | O.o |
| 02:12.38 | alestane | I think it's photoshopped. |
| 02:14.36 | mckenziemc | blasphemy |
| 02:15.26 | Wobin | you can tell by the pixels |
| 02:15.35 | Wobin | and having seen a few soup for sluts in your day? |
| 02:15.51 | airtonix | yes |
| 02:16.27 | airtonix | also too much leather in the picture, obviously gimped |
| 02:18.03 | Seerah | http://www.neatoshop.com/product/Soup-for-Sluts-Ramen |
| 02:18.19 | Seerah | yay, Google :) |
| 02:18.58 | Seerah | heh.... http://theinternettoday.net/funny/ramen-packaging-fail-soup-for-sluts/ |
| 02:20.36 | airtonix | lulz |
| 02:23.18 | kd3 | hahaha |
| 02:23.39 | A-KO | http://i.imgur.com/0jYrY.png |
| 02:24.28 | kd3 | also, yay! the google authenticator shows a timer now indicating how long the code lasts |
| 02:25.48 | Dagmar | I guess on a cell phone with time synchronization there's no point in beating around the bush over it |
| 02:26.23 | kd3 | more like, I fire up the app and start typing the code and a half-second later I get a new one |
| 02:28.05 | *** join/#wowuidev vithos (~vith@unaffiliated/vithos) |
| 02:30.33 | foxlit | maybe it should just hold the number it shows you initially for 30 seconds' |
| 02:31.00 | foxlit | Their tolerance will eat it up anyway |
| 02:59.10 | Kraps | http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/3780-The-Legend-of-Zelda-Ocarina-of-Time-3D |
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| 03:04.05 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 03:10.01 | KarlKFI | yeah. rereleased games for new platforms are never a good idea |
| 03:10.07 | KarlKFI | just a money grab |
| 03:37.51 | Thunder_Child | kd3: whats the cycle time? |
| 03:39.46 | karl_w_w | KarlKFI: tell that to C&C :P |
| 03:39.56 | Kraps | hey i got invited to the BF3 alpha |
| 03:41.10 | karl_w_w | and halo |
| 03:41.51 | starlon | http://i.imgur.com/vHLx5.jpg |
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| 03:50.50 | Torhal | Dagmar, Wobin: It isn't photoshopped if Amazon SELLS it: http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Ramen-Noodles-Soup-Sluts/dp/B004LJ63SO |
| 03:50.59 | Torhal | Heh |
| 03:56.20 | karl_w_w | either that or it's a very well planned out practical joke |
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| 03:58.32 | airtonix | Torhal: get back in the kitchen |
| 04:00.14 | mckenziemc | airtonix: get back in the mine |
| 04:00.31 | airtonix | why would i get back yours |
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| 04:01.38 | Dagmar | I thought it looked real enough |
| 04:01.58 | karl_w_w | especially with the packet on the shelf |
| 04:03.21 | airtonix | australia post is so bad i prefer to use us postal service |
| 04:04.56 | Cairenn | Well, it is in their gag gifts section |
| 04:05.55 | karl_w_w | I know a fair few people who would gag if I gave it to them |
| 04:06.00 | Cairenn | heh |
| 04:06.22 | karl_w_w | retcon: and I wasn't talking about the noodles! |
| 04:06.32 | Cairenn | I find it amusing. Also the "shut the hell up" gum |
| 04:08.22 | karl_w_w | http://www.blueq.com/ramen-noodle/ there's a whole category o.O |
| 04:16.30 | Seerah | hehe |
| 04:16.55 | Thunder_Child | karl_w_w: no, it just looks like a limp noodle.... |
| 04:17.58 | Dagmar | bleh. . The little clay guys needs a better prioritized AI |
| 04:18.58 | airtonix | apart from not moving? |
| 04:19.38 | airtonix | btw, new mobs in minecraft 1.8 look like they mine stuff, so maybe they dismantle your creations? |
| 04:19.57 | airtonix | i saw a picture on one holding a block |
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| 04:28.01 | Dagmar | I may take a poke at these clay guys over the weekend. |
| 04:28.20 | Dagmar | If they weren't so hell bent on killing each other they could probably do it for much longer |
| 04:30.15 | Wobin | http://imgur.com/gallery/HjuQg aww |
| 04:32.26 | Seerah | Wobin: no picture for me :( |
| 04:32.37 | Dagmar | Missing a letter in front I think |
| 04:32.37 | Seerah | just white page. mebbe I'm supposed to use my imagination? :) |
| 04:32.50 | Dagmar | It's a cute little polar bear in a snowstorm |
| 04:32.56 | Seerah | I see it! |
| 04:33.03 | Adys | anyone who's read the HP books and seen the movie and can tell me whether the movies are worth watching? |
| 04:33.12 | Xyphoid | yeah, i enjoyed them overall |
| 04:33.15 | Wobin | http://imgur.com/gallery/HjuQg |
| 04:33.16 | Wobin | hm |
| 04:33.17 | Dagmar | Adys: They follow the book properly |
| 04:33.32 | Wobin | aw |
| 04:33.35 | Wobin | it got removed |
| 04:33.35 | Adys | Dagmar: i saw the first movie like 6 years ago and remember being disappointed |
| 04:33.38 | Adys | what of the others? |
| 04:33.43 | Dagmar | Same thing |
| 04:33.46 | Xyphoid | they switched directors after the first few movies too |
| 04:33.50 | Dagmar | It's basically the books done as movies |
| 04:34.04 | Dagmar | THey're worth a buck at Redbox to be sure if you liked the books |
| 04:34.05 | Seerah | The 4th movie on were much darker |
| 04:34.21 | Dagmar | Well, the storyline gets pretty rough |
| 04:34.30 | Wobin | try http://sgp.cm/2b215d ? |
| 04:34.32 | Seerah | yeah, it does. that's when they changed directors, too |
| 04:34.40 | Xyphoid | there are certainly worse movies you could be watching |
| 04:34.43 | Adys | mmh okay |
| 04:34.48 | Seerah | Wobin: that redirects to the other address |
| 04:35.05 | Wobin | yeah, but it works for me =P weird caching =P |
| 04:35.08 | Seerah | I will have to live with the image of the polar bear then |
| 04:35.21 | Wobin | http://i.imgur.com/HjuQg.jpg ? |
| 04:35.28 | Seerah | there ya go! |
| 04:35.31 | Wobin | \o/ |
| 04:35.39 | Wobin | "This kid had lost his dad in the crowd, and freaked out until he saw the Flash and Wonder Woman. He went up to the Flash to ask for help, because he knows him" |
| 04:35.43 | Wobin | was the caption |
| 04:35.50 | Seerah | hehe :D |
| 04:39.31 | Dagmar | This guy -> http://imgur.com/gallery/wZUOr <-- genius |
| 04:39.45 | Cairenn | hehehe |
| 04:39.58 | Cairenn | That's pretty wild |
| 04:46.22 | Dagmar | I would like to know who's been giving this little Japanese girl acid, tho'. |
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| 05:06.43 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (~bluspacec@60-234-165-167.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) |
| 05:06.43 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 05:10.54 | Ackis | fuck wow |
| 05:11.02 | Ackis | why can't they make a wow where you don't need to play with other people? |
| 05:11.57 | Ackis | I'd be good at that game |
| 05:12.22 | Thunder_Child | they do, it's called an RPG |
| 05:13.00 | bluspacecow | hai2u ackis |
| 05:15.53 | mckenziemc | hai2u bluroadkill |
| 05:16.30 | airtonix | umad? |
| 05:16.44 | Torhal | Ackis: mckenziemc needs a beating. Please administer at your earliest convenience. |
| 05:16.56 | Torhal | bluspacecow: You may participate. |
| 05:17.07 | Torhal | sets up the tripod and camera. |
| 05:17.24 | bluspacecow | in getting him to "drop the soap" ? |
| 05:18.45 | airtonix | throws the soap |
| 05:18.59 | airtonix | dive dive dive! |
| 05:19.08 | Wobin | *woop!* *woop!* *woop!* *woop!* |
| 05:19.20 | bluspacecow | *throws the soup* |
| 05:19.31 | airtonix | adds the ramen noodles |
| 05:19.50 | Cairenn | just shakes her head and rolls her eyes |
| 05:20.05 | bluspacecow | *offers bowl and sppon to cairenn |
| 05:20.11 | Cairenn | :p |
| 05:20.29 | Cairenn | I'm a bitch, not a slut |
| 05:20.49 | mckenziemc | D: |
| 05:20.52 | airtonix | oh ok |
| 05:21.24 | Ackis | must refrain from making any comments... |
| 05:21.41 | Cairenn | You guys can't tell me you've never heard that joke! |
| 05:21.49 | Ackis | I haven't |
| 05:22.17 | Ackis | but I learned young that you don't call girls sluts... called my sister a slut and mom slapped my face!!! |
| 05:22.42 | Cairenn | Well, you shouldn't, this is true. It is rather rude. |
| 05:22.56 | Ackis | eh she had it coming |
| 05:23.40 | airtonix | the truth is rarely beatiful |
| 05:24.23 | airtonix | orchids and bees |
| 05:24.32 | mckenziemc | you had it coming |
| 05:24.42 | airtonix | are you ? |
| 05:25.22 | Torhal | idly wonders what mischief he's started. |
| 05:26.05 | Cairenn | "A bitch sleeps with everyone *but you*" |
| 05:26.36 | bluspacecow | =b +1 |
| 05:34.56 | Torhal | Wait, Cairenn...if you're a bitch in general then you're...a nun? |
| 05:35.19 | Cairenn | Given that I have a daughter, and my name isn't Mary ... |
| 05:35.23 | mckenziemc | ~trout Torhal |
| 05:35.24 | purl | ACTION slaps Torhal around a bit with a large trout! |
| 05:35.30 | Torhal | People can change! |
| 05:35.33 | bluspacecow | it's not ? |
| 05:35.35 | Cairenn | Hehehe |
| 05:35.35 | bluspacecow | is it |
| 05:35.37 | bluspacecow | craig ? |
| 05:35.41 | Torhal | Well, except for maybe Fisker or mckenziemc. |
| 05:42.21 | mckenziemc | i change my clothes sometimes... does that count? |
| 05:42.47 | Torhal | Not really; underwear goes on the _inside_ of the pants. |
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| 05:46.02 | mckenziemc | lies |
| 05:46.07 | mckenziemc | ~wiki captain underpants |
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| 06:56.59 | Adys | Dagmar: wtf is pon pon pon? |
| 06:57.17 | Fisker | umad Torhal |
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| 07:01.43 | airtonix | oh look |
| 07:01.47 | airtonix | it's the cookie monster |
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| 07:10.19 | haste | Adys: pon pon pata pon! |
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| 07:17.03 | airtonix | so wonder woman, shit or shit? |
| 07:17.23 | airtonix | oh look avengers, lets cash in on it |
| 07:17.34 | airtonix | <purchases outfit from toys-r-us> |
| 07:25.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (~kalroth@mail1.retailplanit.com) |
| 07:34.18 | karl_w_w | hmm airtonix in a wonder woman costume? |
| 07:34.24 | karl_w_w | its not doing anything for me |
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| 07:59.20 | zenzio | grumbles |
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| 07:59.47 | Grum | bles back. |
| 07:59.53 | zenzio | I know I've said this before, but when the link on Slashdot comments says "Get 449 More Comments", why does it only fetch 50 more? |
| 08:02.00 | Adys | it hopes you cant count |
| 08:02.25 | karl_w_w | slashdot is gaining sentience? I knew it. |
| 08:02.45 | Adys | it gained sentience long ago |
| 08:02.56 | Adys | do you know how much life can fester in a pile of shit? |
| 08:03.12 | zenzio | lol |
| 08:03.23 | karl_w_w | just ask the windows community! |
| 08:03.25 | karl_w_w | zzzzing |
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| 08:13.02 | mitch0 | zenzio: switch back to the old-school /. layout |
| 08:13.15 | mitch0 | zenzio: the new "web2.0" stuff sucks |
| 08:13.38 | karl_w_w | when doesn't it |
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| 08:20.10 | zenzio | http://johnaugust.com/2011/cinematic-geography-and-problem-of-genius#comment-191403 - this comment is amusing; if it is correct |
| 08:23.52 | Cairenn | rofl |
| 08:25.06 | jnwhiteh | I'm sure it is =) |
| 08:25.27 | jnwhiteh | I was really taken aback by how naive the analysis of the Shining was. |
| 08:27.35 | zenzio | I thought there were some plausible ideas, but it did seem to generally go too far |
| 08:27.51 | jnwhiteh | its just all qualified |
| 08:27.55 | jnwhiteh | "we can assume that" |
| 08:28.00 | jnwhiteh | well, no, you can't.k |
| 08:28.02 | zenzio | true |
| 08:28.14 | zenzio | Ager's Aliens analysis felt better |
| 08:28.19 | jnwhiteh | I mean, if you'd like to, you'll gain the ability to make conclusions based on those assumptions.. but you can't remove those assumptions |
| 08:28.46 | jnwhiteh | Its just completely ignores the fact that optical illusions/moving sets/camera angles are more often than not chosen for convenience, not continuity |
| 08:29.10 | jnwhiteh | They didn't build a full scale set of the Overlook, therefore almost everything you're saying is irrelevant. Q.E.D. |
| 08:29.16 | zenzio | don't remember where this originally came from, but I'm very much reminded of this: http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lk6vwihaMu1qa5z1ro1_400.png |
| 08:29.31 | jnwhiteh | yep |
| 08:29.56 | jnwhiteh | it definitely is the God fallacy |
| 08:30.19 | jnwhiteh | "Kubrick was a perfectionist, the only way these 'mistakes' could have occurred if Kubrick wanted them there" |
| 08:30.54 | jnwhiteh | "Now that we've established that the sets must have been constructed with these spatial irregularities" |
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| 08:35.41 | jnwhiteh | Any idea where he's from. I'm not familiar with his accent, but it definitely sounds Northern |
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| 08:37.00 | jnwhiteh | yeah, I disagree fully with his final statement, that these 'spatial irregularities' contribute to the 'creepiness' of the film. You just plain don't notice them, unless you break the immersion and stop and look and draw maps. |
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| 08:45.39 | harl | [wuff wuff] |
| 08:50.20 | Cairenn | purr |
| 08:53.24 | Kalroth | how does a seal sound on irc? (assuming a seal could use irc) |
| 08:53.50 | jnwhiteh | *club*? |
| 08:54.22 | Kalroth | awww |
| 08:54.26 | Kalroth | you're a meanie |
| 08:59.31 | jnwhiteh | (719): it was really awkward meeting your mom for the first time while i was still wearing the condom we were using. |
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| 09:02.26 | Adys | how do you elevate privileges from cmd? |
| 09:02.34 | Adys | (without starting cmd as admin) |
| 09:02.52 | Kalroth | can you? |
| 09:02.58 | Adys | wondering the same |
| 09:03.12 | Adys | if theres a su/sudo alternative |
| 09:03.20 | Kalroth | runas |
| 09:03.35 | Adys | so like |
| 09:03.38 | Adys | runas chkdsk? |
| 09:03.53 | Kalroth | http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb490994.aspx |
| 09:04.23 | Adys | buh |
| 09:06.12 | Corrodias | and there's no way to make it NOT require a password when you use runas; be warned. |
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| 09:07.12 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 09:07.16 | Corrodias | some third-party utilities can do it, though, but you're taking your security into your own hands then. |
| 09:07.26 | jnwhiteh | Fisker: do you like your transformer? |
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| 09:33.52 | Xzempt | whats the party frame called, like my unitfamre is PlayerFrame |
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| 09:36.03 | Xzempt | nvm found it |
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| 10:12.47 | zenzio | "Be nice to your US friends. Send them a Spotify invite now." - thanks for the tip, Spotify |
| 10:13.16 | krka | you're welcome |
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| 10:24.10 | zenzio | "Gentoo is indeed your best bet if you like recompiling your software in an unusual way. " - that's an interesting way to put it |
| 10:24.22 | Fisker | do you like fish sticks jnwhiteh |
| 10:24.30 | jnwhiteh | it depends, I never crave them |
| 10:24.36 | jnwhiteh | but if there's nothing else nice to eat, I might have them instead. |
| 10:28.08 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 10:34.37 | airtonix | Adys: sucks hey? |
| 10:34.52 | airtonix | Adys: just replace explorer.exe with kde |
| 10:37.18 | *** join/#wowuidev mojosdojo- (~mojosdojo@p4FE63B73.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:56.10 | zenzio | http://pics.kuvaton.com/bshit/fact_034.jpg - "150% times more"? |
| 10:56.23 | Kalroth | .. |
| 10:56.30 | Kalroth | how does india look, zenzio? |
| 10:57.08 | zenzio | Kalroth: I don't care about what they wanted to be funny, I'm too concerned with the grammar |
| 10:58.09 | Kalroth | i can see |
| 10:58.12 | Adys | zenzio: its pretty obvious what they meant |
| 10:58.21 | Adys | they meant 1.5 times 150% |
| 10:58.31 | Adys | so really 225% |
| 11:14.23 | mikma | sure, india |
| 11:16.30 | mikma | cairenn|afk: http://imgur.com/gallery/0jYrY |
| 11:18.22 | mikma | http://imgur.com/gallery/xN6fO |
| 11:21.26 | Fisker | also btw mitch0 |
| 11:21.39 | Fisker | Tier11 increases the time for protection on guardian of the ancient kings |
| 11:21.53 | bluspacecow | fisker |
| 11:22.26 | Fisker | bluspacecow |
| 11:22.27 | Fisker | i lulz'd |
| 11:22.30 | bluspacecow | hai2u |
| 11:22.58 | Fisker | http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2423164893?page=3#42 <-lying to win arguments on the internet ftw |
| 11:24.50 | Fisker | is it lulz bluspacecow ? |
| 11:24.58 | bluspacecow | very much |
| 11:30.55 | Fisker | bluspacecow |
| 11:31.02 | bluspacecow | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:44.40 | mitch0 | fisker: bah |
| 11:44.48 | Fisker | bam |
| 11:44.50 | mitch0 | fisker: I won't handle it ;) |
| 11:45.03 | Fisker | fuck you then |
| 11:45.18 | mitch0 | like you'll ever use that addon... |
| 11:45.40 | bluspacecow | http://hackedirl.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/epic-win-photos-ad-placement-win1.jpg |
| 11:45.42 | Fisker | exactly |
| 11:45.47 | Fisker | because i don't need an addon for it |
| 11:45.51 | Fisker | and neither does any other paladin |
| 11:45.55 | Fisker | unless they're retarded |
| 11:47.02 | Fisker | http://i.imgur.com/xRG00.png <-fuck your silly little addon ELL OH ELL |
| 11:51.00 | Adys | http://imgur.com/gallery/d6kj0 what show is that? |
| 11:52.40 | bluspacecow | how i meet your mother |
| 11:55.59 | Adys | http://ss-comic.thecomicseries.com/ |
| 11:56.00 | Adys | lol |
| 12:02.39 | *** part/#wowuidev BWMerlin (~BW~Merlin@CPE-60-226-105-114.qld.bigpond.net.au) |
| 12:05.12 | Fisker | so mitch0 |
| 12:05.16 | Fisker | what are you going to do? |
| 12:07.43 | mitch0 | nothing |
| 12:08.03 | mitch0 | I'll just tag a new release and call it a day |
| 12:08.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (~chatzilla@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 12:08.58 | Fisker | but mitch0 |
| 12:09.05 | Fisker | this addon is vastly superior to yours |
| 12:09.12 | Fisker | it doesn't even care what talents i have lol |
| 12:09.41 | mitch0 | fisker: mine didn't want to track the stupid guardian in the first place :) |
| 12:09.52 | Fisker | :( |
| 12:09.57 | Fisker | soothes mitch0 |
| 12:10.03 | mitch0 | mine was created for my water elemental, then they made it permanent |
| 12:10.04 | Fisker | it really shouldn't anyway |
| 12:10.13 | bt | do you unregister events you dont use for performance or does it matter not much? |
| 12:10.22 | Fisker | real paladins use clcinfo |
| 12:10.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Sliker (~ponies@46.208.48.141) |
| 12:13.33 | Adys | http://imgur.com/gallery/fQFA6 what the @ comments |
| 12:14.07 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~alestane@c-66-30-17-67.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 12:14.07 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 12:14.17 | Fisker | yeah that makes no sense |
| 12:14.27 | Fisker | they don't +1 |
| 12:14.29 | Fisker | err |
| 12:14.33 | Fisker | they don't +2 etc. |
| 12:14.39 | Fisker | math do not work that way |
| 12:15.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (~Daniel@c-98-225-45-244.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 12:23.26 | bt | these people do not math, they social with +x for likes and for -x dislikes with x number of people |
| 12:32.14 | *** join/#wowuidev zz_Alram (~Alram@2a02:2308::216:3eff:fe63:b098) |
| 12:38.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@catv-178-48-162-10.catv.broadband.hu) |
| 12:39.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (~Lopeppepp@141.222.30.166) |
| 12:39.45 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 12:40.10 | zenzio | +1's Lopeppeppy |
| 12:40.45 | *** join/#wowuidev zz_Alram (~Alram@2a02:2308::216:3eff:fe63:b098) |
| 12:41.07 | Lopeppeppy | Awww. |
| 12:41.25 | Lopeppeppy | Chinese curse variation: May Peppy live in interesting times before she's had breakfast to properly deal with them. |
| 12:41.45 | alestane | What did the moose do now? |
| 12:41.56 | alestane | Six impossible things? |
| 12:42.10 | Lopeppeppy | She was a paragon of virtue. |
| 12:42.18 | airtonix | was? |
| 12:42.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (~Vilkku@86-60-153-252-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi) |
| 12:42.37 | airtonix | oh dear |
| 12:42.43 | Lopeppeppy | One of the cashiers at the grocery fainted, and the staff were... useless. |
| 12:42.43 | Kalroth | not so virtuos any more! |
| 12:42.50 | airtonix | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:42.55 | Lopeppeppy | I doubt she's virtuous when I'm not home, I hedge my bets there. |
| 12:43.18 | airtonix | you could make some money there |
| 12:43.24 | airtonix | it's a sure thing |
| 12:43.37 | alestane | Whyfor was you at the grocery store before breakfast? |
| 12:43.53 | Lopeppeppy | To farking get me some breakfast. :) |
| 12:44.00 | Fisker | slaps Lopeppeppy around a bit with a large trout |
| 12:44.22 | alestane | Ask, and ye shall receive, apparently. |
| 12:44.29 | Lopeppeppy | Little teenager wasn't feeling well, just kinda keeled over. Poor thing. Thankfully I still know my basics of first aid, and she's fine. |
| 12:44.30 | zenzio | useless how peppy? Didn't know what to do? |
| 12:44.42 | Lopeppeppy | They stood like gaping fish, zenzio. |
| 12:45.10 | zenzio | I'm not entirely surprised, many people don't really know what to do in such circumstances |
| 12:45.41 | alestane | It's a sadly common response. I at least have progressed to pointing frantically and gibbering like a monkey. |
| 12:46.01 | alestane | "...BLUE. MEANIES!" |
| 12:46.57 | alestane | Or at least, that's one I'm prone to doing when I see, say, the contents of the oven bursting into flame, and everyone else has the back turned. |
| 12:47.03 | alestane | their* |
| 12:47.19 | alestane | If I am by myself I am usually a bit more effective. |
| 12:48.46 | *** join/#wowuidev TMc51 (~TMc51@cpe-74-71-30-131.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 12:49.48 | alestane | Partly, I think it's that the presence of other people allows us to defer responsibility into the collective: the "why doesn't someone do something?" response. |
| 12:50.11 | alestane | Of course, no-one has agreed on who's going to be "someone" today. |
| 12:50.46 | Lopeppeppy | I put her on a chair, I took her pulse, I checked her eyes, determined she had fainted, made them get me ice and orange juice, and then made them call her mom. |
| 12:51.03 | alestane | Sensible responses. |
| 12:51.26 | zenzio | she only fainted, no signs of a seizure-like thing? |
| 12:51.28 | Lopeppeppy | Maybe it's my years of managing retail myself - just be sensible, hello. They hadn't even summoned the manager yet, when I told them to call her mom. |
| 12:51.45 | Lopeppeppy | Nah, just a teenager fainting spell. |
| 12:52.07 | zenzio | you make them sound common, are they? |
| 12:52.47 | Lopeppeppy | Since I have them myself, I grok their randomness. They're not uncommon, particularly in teenaged females. Add hormones to illness and it doesn't come out well. |
| 12:53.05 | zenzio | I see |
| 12:54.25 | zenzio | I had an epileptic seizure while in our capital last Tuesday. No idea who called the ambulance on me, but I assume it's rather more obvious that something's wrong then than with a simple faint |
| 12:55.11 | alestane | Or they had no idea what to do and deferred the situation to professionals. |
| 12:56.25 | Lopeppeppy | They'll look her over at the urgent care center, make sure it wasn't anything serious. But it wasn't a seizure, I know those too - I worked at a summer camp where grand mal seizures were very common. |
| 12:56.43 | zenzio | from what I'm told about how an epileptic seizure looks to bystanders, I believe calling for an ambulance is the general response most people would have. People who are familiar with the condition might try to make sure the person isn't injuring themselves, but don't think there's a great deal you can do about epileptic seizures |
| 12:57.15 | Lopeppeppy | Nope. Clear the area of anything they can hurt themselves with, time the seizure, call for paramedics if you don't know the person. |
| 12:57.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@catv-178-48-162-10.catv.broadband.hu) |
| 13:02.26 | alestane | Step #1 to reducing health care costs: keep funding schools so they can run first-aid classes. |
| 13:02.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (~Jamash@99-92-173-110.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net) |
| 13:03.13 | Lopeppeppy | I just hope her mom is sensible enough to not bother with the ER, go to the urgent care center instead. Cheaper, faster, better triage system. |
| 13:03.23 | Lopeppeppy | And 20 minutes closer. |
| 13:03.26 | zenzio | does the US use an abhorrent amount of money on health care or something? Americans always seem to think so, but at least to me that's one social benefit I would not want to reduce the budgets for |
| 13:03.38 | zenzio | I'm very happy with our health care system in Norway |
| 13:04.18 | alestane | zenzio, the problem is that we spend for more per person than basically any other wealthy nation, but don't live noticeably longer or spend less time sick or injured. |
| 13:04.22 | alestane | far* |
| 13:04.43 | xyphoid | the US has a tangled mess of bad incentives tangled together, it's a shame\ |
| 13:04.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (~Lunessa@WoWUIDev/Lunessa) |
| 13:04.51 | xyphoid | there doesn't seem to be any easy fix |
| 13:04.53 | Lunessa | station |
| 13:04.54 | zenzio | I see... sounds like something somewhere in the system is very inefficient/uneconomical |
| 13:04.57 | Lopeppeppy | It's that the health care benefits are unequally distributed, zenzio. Not everyone can afford them, so a great many do without routine preventative maintenance. So when they DO go, it's much more expensive and serious. It's like... not being able to afford oil changes for the car, and only going to the mechanic when the engine dies. |
| 13:05.00 | alestane | The system is horrendously inefficient. |
| 13:05.07 | xyphoid | the emergency room used as primary health care, yeah |
| 13:05.30 | alestane | The insurers and the providers spend a lot of time wrangling over which of them should get the money. |
| 13:05.42 | alestane | And they often solve the problem by pushing up costs. |
| 13:07.00 | zenzio | I remember the first time (well, second... first time was in Sweden on vacation) I had an epileptic seizure, they ran a bunch of tests on me in the hospital soon after (my lingo is bad, but I think it was CAT/MRI scans). Told an American friend and he told me you'd have to wait months in line for that over there. Whether he was right or not, I don't know |
| 13:07.01 | alestane | Doctors want to order as many tests as possible, so they don't get sued by missing something that would have indicated the problem. Insurers only want to pay for the test that turns out to tell you what the problem is, and so on. |
| 13:08.10 | alestane | My mother missed my departure for Japan because she had a specialist's appointment scheduled and wouldn't be able to get another appointment for four months. |
| 13:08.12 | xyphoid | tying health care to your job does terrible things to the economy too - want to quit your dumb job and start a business? in addition to the normal risks, don't get sick! |
| 13:09.10 | zenzio | xyphoid: yeah, that's one thing I never understood (I'm sure they felt they had their reasons back when that started) |
| 13:09.14 | Lunessa | tying health care to jobs meant that people started having coverage. Understand that people don't pay for things they don't think they need. I mean, how many of the people in this channel have life insurance? |
| 13:09.27 | Lopeppeppy | The wait for tests depends on where you are - in my area, there are several facilities, so I didn't have a wait for any of my tests (CAT and similar). In more rural areas, there are fewer facilities, longer waits. |
| 13:09.29 | alestane | raises his hand. |
| 13:09.35 | Lopeppeppy | I have life insurance. |
| 13:09.54 | zenzio | depends what "life insurance" means exactly, I have a few different kinds of insurances |
| 13:09.56 | Lunessa | alestane: You're a responsible adult with a wife to look after. You know you need it. :P |
| 13:10.17 | Lunessa | well, mostly responsible. :P |
| 13:10.33 | alestane | Mind you, she has far more, especially since she earns most of the money in the house ATM. |
| 13:10.38 | Lopeppeppy | Mine is... wait for it.... tied to my job! |
| 13:10.40 | Lunessa | *nod* |
| 13:10.41 | zenzio | one thing that seems to show up on American TV shows (usually comedies) is "dental plans" - one area that actually isn't covered by Norwegian social health care |
| 13:11.08 | zenzio | Lunessa: maybe it was the wife that got him the life insurance? |
| 13:11.18 | zenzio | alestane: better double-check those knives are secured in your house |
| 13:11.18 | Lunessa | But honestly people treat insurance as a "deferred payment plan" rather than "coverage for catastrophe" which is fucking strange. |
| 13:11.26 | alestane | We had dental coverage for a while, but it was more expensive than our dental costs. |
| 13:12.24 | Lunessa | dental is expensive and infrequent. Which is why getting coverage for it is a sign of a very generous employer. |
| 13:13.10 | alestane | Pretty much every other industrialized country seems to adopt a different system, usually one without a privatized nest of 3rd-party parasites, but no matter how many counter-examples exist, there are a substantial number of people here who have a skin-crawling heebie-jeebie reaction to the thought of "socialized medicine" and start talking about "death panels." |
| 13:13.22 | zenzio | it's generally recommended that people see their dentist annually here. Annual checks do cost, but could save you lots in the long run |
| 13:13.39 | alestane | A concept woefully undercomprehended here. |
| 13:13.49 | Lunessa | alestane: I don't want government-run healthcare. |
| 13:14.21 | zenzio | Lunessa: how come? (Not arguing, I'm just curious for other points of view) |
| 13:14.27 | xyphoid | i love my government-run healthcare, the funny thing is that private healthcare co-exists happily next to it |
| 13:14.53 | alestane | I do believe that private industry should be allowed to compete with it, Lunessa, which means it will be patronized based on its ability to add value. |
| 13:14.56 | Lunessa | They do a pretty piss-poor job of all other fiscal responsibilities, and as a former military dependent, my care then was no better or worse than I have had in the private sector. |
| 13:15.11 | zenzio | I'm with alestane on this |
| 13:15.53 | Lunessa | I also walk the walk when it comes to believing in personal responsibility. And if that means I have to pay for my own health care (via insurance or out of pocket) I'm ok with that. |
| 13:15.55 | zenzio | Lunessa: given that, I can see your point of view |
| 13:16.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraftman (~Kraftman@92.40.254.179.threembb.co.uk) |
| 13:16.44 | Lunessa | Granted, I work for a "government entity" so I have very nice benefits. But only 20% of our budget at this institution comes from the State. |
| 13:17.10 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@unaffiliated/stolenlegacy) |
| 13:17.12 | Lunessa | I also get paid far less in salary than I would make in the private sector. |
| 13:18.43 | Lunessa | So I'm not entirely hypocrisy free, but I've paid for most of my own medical and dental for most of my life (still saving up the money to have major dental work done). |
| 13:18.49 | xyphoid | i'm just not a huge fan of bankrupting people over medical bills |
| 13:19.19 | alestane | The principle problem as I see it is that basic, less-expensive medical care seems to be disappearing. |
| 13:19.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Chamenas (~Chamenas@98.118.7.162) |
| 13:19.57 | alestane | It's not just the consumer health industry, for example, the malpractice insurance industry is also frequently cited as part of the cost acceleration cycle. |
| 13:20.00 | zenzio | I don't know enough about economics to really advocate one thing over another; especially when discussing possible changes to existing systems |
| 13:20.27 | karl_w_w | britain's system is the best |
| 13:20.57 | zenzio | not familiar with that one |
| 13:21.03 | Lunessa | xyphoid: Me either. But people need to plan. And you can't expect someone else to do it for you or pay for it for you. |
| 13:21.12 | karl_w_w | basically everything is free |
| 13:21.16 | alestane | The cost of becoming a doctor is enormous...if you want to talk effective government investment into healthcare, Lunessa, then I suspect putting up public money to fund medical school would be one of the most cost-effective steps. |
| 13:21.42 | Lunessa | alestane: government already invests in that. Large scale. |
| 13:22.08 | Lunessa | Student loans programs (though they're mostly terrible too - government sucks at handling money) |
| 13:22.35 | Lunessa | I'd like to point out that NOTHING is "FREE" - someone, somewhere is carrying that cost. :P |
| 13:22.37 | Lopeppeppy | alestane, if a new doctor agrees to serve X years in an under-served area, they can get Y amount forgiven from their loans. There are already systems in place to help doctors obtain their training. |
| 13:22.55 | alestane | Obviously. |
| 13:23.09 | alestane | The question is if and when it can be handled more efficiently. |
| 13:23.32 | foxlit | Ew, paying for education |
| 13:23.36 | Lopeppeppy | Always room for more efficiency. It's like Jello. |
| 13:23.37 | karl_w_w | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Health_Service_%28England%29 |
| 13:23.39 | foxlit | That concept clearly needs to go away |
| 13:24.00 | karl_w_w | introduction crits you for 1337 damage |
| 13:24.01 | xyphoid | i just don't understand the view that the government sucks at handling health care, when we have live examples of it that people seem to love |
| 13:24.02 | karl_w_w | you die |
| 13:24.45 | Lopeppeppy | some governments suck at being administrative. :) |
| 13:25.15 | foxlit | one wonders whether they do, objectively, or whether that's just a popular perception |
| 13:25.30 | zenzio | "The NHS is both the largest and oldest single-payer healthcare system in the world. It is able to function in the way that it does because it is primarily funded through the general taxation system," -- ie. everyone pays |
| 13:26.12 | alestane | I guess the question to me, Lunessa, is whether the private industry sucks any less at providing it. |
| 13:26.58 | karl_w_w | they have a tendency to put the $ first |
| 13:27.35 | karl_w_w | where's that wikipedia template that says "this introduction is too long, dammit!"? |
| 13:28.35 | Lopeppeppy | Wall of text crits you is not a valid complaint on wikipedia, I would guess. :) |
| 13:31.26 | karl_w_w | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Summarize_section |
| 13:31.38 | karl_w_w | seems you were wrong peppy! :P |
| 13:32.00 | Lopeppeppy | Oh jeez. |
| 13:32.09 | Lunessa | xyphoid: My problem is that pretty much everything done with "government money" is usually inefficient, poorer quality than the same service from private industry, and is actually paid for by taxation. (US only. I'm not now, nor have I ever been a citizen in other nations and cannot speak from experience). I don't like the idea of government taking from people (under penalty of prison or worse) to give out pretty much anything. |
| 13:32.46 | alestane | The question is how it's paid for, because it's always paid for, and how efficiently. |
| 13:32.58 | alestane | THe US has a strong culture of government hatred and distrust. |
| 13:33.09 | Lunessa | I have some things I think can be paid for that way (roads for example) but not as many things as people seem to demand. |
| 13:33.21 | mitch0 | alestane: I think that's mostly universal |
| 13:33.35 | mitch0 | (goverment hatred and distrust, that is) |
| 13:33.37 | karl_w_w | its different in the US |
| 13:33.50 | Lopeppeppy | America started out by mistrusting and hating our old government, we've got long history. :) |
| 13:34.09 | alestane | We have a government that was deliberately founded to be inefficient and slow, so that it can't be hijacked to quickly dominate policy. |
| 13:34.18 | zenzio | most people dislike their own government when talking to fellow countrymen, but will usually defend it when talking to people from other countries |
| 13:34.18 | karl_w_w | it appears from the outside that your average US citizen expects that the government could go renegade at any moment |
| 13:34.39 | Kraps | the truth is out there man |
| 13:34.45 | foxlit | private healthcare smells bad -- it's a *massive* investment, meaning that without some form of regulation, you'd end up with one giant profit-interested company administering all of it |
| 13:34.55 | karl_w_w | Kraps: don't let it touch you! |
| 13:35.38 | Lunessa | karl_w_w: Considering that most of our founders came here to escape governments that did exactly that.... |
| 13:36.19 | karl_w_w | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Lead_too_long <- I knew there was a specific one |
| 13:36.35 | alestane | The right to bear arms, for example, while nominally enfranchised to ensure that the people would be able to defend the state, also exists to insure that they will not be at the mercy of armed tyranny. |
| 13:36.44 | dardack | foxlit yea but that regulation is creating some of the bloatedness/expensiveness, let them sell across state lines for 1, more competition, also cap civil suites against dr's, i mean some of the numbers people sue for are ridiculous, ins goes up, so prices go up |
| 13:37.29 | Lunessa | Also, people seem to think that doctors should work for free. |
| 13:37.33 | Lunessa | *boggle* |
| 13:37.38 | dardack | eh the gov't rep:cons ratio is way out of rack |
| 13:37.43 | dardack | wack |
| 13:37.52 | zenzio | Lunessa: seriously? o_O |
| 13:37.59 | karl_w_w | lol |
| 13:38.35 | Kraps | rep:cons? |
| 13:38.47 | dardack | i don't think they should work for free, just the regulation in place is partly to blame for the high prices in healthcare, and this obamacare or w/e you wanna call it, isn't like true gov't run heathcare, it's wierd, and certain companies/unions are excempt? just crap |
| 13:38.51 | Lunessa | zenzio: When people complain that healtchare costs too much, many complain that doctors drive nice cars and have large houses and incomes. |
| 13:38.57 | dardack | representatives:constintuents (no i can't spell) |
| 13:39.43 | foxlit | why does that matter? |
| 13:39.47 | Kraps | constituents only matter at the local and maybe state level |
| 13:41.28 | dardack | krap not true, i mean we're capped at what 453 representatives, well back in the day the number of constituents was low, now it's like 300mil, so we have 453 people representing 300mil people now, that's crap, also term limits shoudl exist in congress/senate, and make it so voting is a %, like if party 1 get 10% of votes they get 10% of seats, etc. not this winner take all crap |
| 13:41.37 | Lunessa | Essentially, I'm for more of people doing things for themselves and each other without a governing body meddling much. I certainly don't like the idea that the state would be the final arbiter of all things health. |
| 13:41.54 | dardack | lunessa agree |
| 13:42.26 | foxlit | I think we should make a health insurance company for only healthy people |
| 13:42.32 | foxlit | It'll be adorably cheap :) |
| 13:42.34 | Lunessa | also, I hate morning shift. (not related, just griping) |
| 13:42.49 | Chamenas | I hate irregular shifts |
| 13:43.03 | TMc51 | I hate shifts. |
| 13:43.26 | Chamenas | ?? |
| 13:43.26 | Chamenas | Profit |
| 13:43.29 | dardack | there are ones like that foxlit, it's called um catastophy (sp i know) ins, basically your healthy so doesn't cover dr visits, but if something huge happens (cancer/car accident) you have some deductible like 500 bucks, but then covers the rest, so |
| 13:43.35 | Lunessa | foxlit: Most insurance is a bet by the insurer that you'll never need the money. :) Life insurance is you betting you'll die before the Insurance company thinks you will. :) |
| 13:43.45 | Kraps | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shift_key |
| 13:43.47 | foxlit | dardack: I'm thinking the opposite |
| 13:44.10 | dardack | you want something that covers the nominal dr visits but not the big things? |
| 13:44.24 | foxlit | Something that bails on you at the first sign of expendatures. |
| 13:44.35 | dardack | cynical |
| 13:44.38 | foxlit | It's clearly the most profitable way to drive things. |
| 13:44.38 | nevcairiel | what good is that |
| 13:44.53 | nevcairiel | sure is, but why would people choose you? :) |
| 13:45.01 | dardack | anyways most dr's will give you break if you pay in cash and dont' have ins |
| 13:45.22 | foxlit | nevcairiel: buy out everyone else :) |
| 13:45.31 | Lunessa | foxlit: There have been such companies. Regulation and lawsuits usually get them after a run of 20-30 years. |
| 13:45.57 | Lunessa | foxlit: They're also the subject of a Grisham novel "The Rainmaker" |
| 13:46.03 | Chamenas | I think foxlit was making a satiric remark on how insurance works in the United States |
| 13:46.55 | Lunessa | And I was playing along. :) |
| 13:47.13 | Lunessa | Note the "run of 20-30 years" |
| 13:47.17 | Chamenas | That's not allowed! |
| 13:47.30 | Lunessa | Also, I've had too much caffeine. |
| 13:47.43 | Lunessa | Anyone want to swim to Tahiti? |
| 13:47.44 | Chamenas | You should stop that. Bad for your health. |
| 13:48.10 | Chamenas | I'm going to start an insurance company and reject claims on the basis of "excessive caffeine use in lifetime" |
| 13:48.29 | nevcairiel | you should only accept people that dont drink coffee |
| 13:48.45 | Chamenas | No no, I'll accept them. I want their money. |
| 13:48.46 | foxlit | also, no overweight people |
| 13:48.53 | Lunessa | Or tea. Or cola. |
| 13:48.56 | Chamenas | But when they file a claim, I'll say "you drank coffee, you broke the goods" |
| 13:49.03 | Chamenas | And soda |
| 13:49.07 | Chamenas | And many teas. Yup |
| 13:49.09 | nevcairiel | foxlit: werent we talking about basing this in the US, thats not the best criteria for over there |
| 13:49.12 | Chamenas | Energy drinks |
| 13:49.57 | foxlit | nevcairiel: perhaps a more accurate way to put it was no payouts for overweight people |
| 13:50.08 | nevcairiel | that works |
| 13:50.23 | foxlit | The point I'm hiding somewhere is that as a massive investment, healthcare is prone to getting monopolized |
| 13:50.29 | Chamenas | Claim rejected. Reason: You're fat! |
| 13:51.03 | foxlit | And if that ever happens, it'll never actually be effective |
| 13:51.19 | Lunessa | foxlit: Either by government or by private entities trying to use economies of scale. |
| 13:51.21 | Kraps | "In addition (again, correct me if I am wrong), the first president of "African American descent" is Bill Clinton" |
| 13:51.27 | foxlit | Lunessa: indeed. |
| 13:51.56 | foxlit | The only subtle difference is that the incentive of private entities is to generate a profit, while the incentive of government should be to serve the people. |
| 13:52.15 | foxlit | Between spending too much and getting too little, I'd choose the former. |
| 13:52.26 | nevcairiel | I think the gov't doesnt know their role, though! |
| 13:52.32 | *** join/#wowuidev gsnerf (~gsnerf@dslb-088-073-007-122.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:52.41 | Fisker | ell oh ell |
| 13:52.42 | Lunessa | See, I just don't want something done by fiat, paid for by taxes, and not have an alternative. I especially don't want to have alternatives, but still have to pay for the government system by taxes in addition to paying for my preferred alternative. |
| 13:52.52 | Fisker | i lol'd nevcairiel |
| 13:53.01 | Fisker | The H100 just got pushed back by a month on this website :O |
| 13:53.07 | nevcairiel | the what? |
| 13:53.08 | Fisker | so now they got 5 more in stock |
| 13:53.10 | foxlit | Lunessa: I don't think there's a single publically funded healthcare system that doesn't have a private alternative |
| 13:53.12 | Fisker | (aka cancels lol) |
| 13:53.20 | Fisker | the corsair hydro h100 nevcairiel |
| 13:53.34 | Lunessa | foxlit: Can I opt out of paying for the public one if I use an alternative? |
| 13:53.47 | Lunessa | (ie tax break) |
| 13:54.02 | foxlit | Lunessa: good, but difficult question |
| 13:54.09 | nevcairiel | Around here, you pay a percentage of your income for the public health care, if you get a private one, you dont have to pay the public anymore |
| 13:54.16 | Chamenas | I want the ability to elect not to be covered. It doesn't matter to me if I don't have any access to emergency care in financial distress. But I think it's absolutely morally bankrupt to tell me that if I don't have healthcare I should be fined. (Massachusetts) |
| 13:54.30 | nevcairiel | Of course, some other parts of your taxes will probably end up in the healthcare system to support it |
| 13:54.35 | nevcairiel | but thats really not transparent. :p |
| 13:54.37 | alestane | Also, how totally? Does paying for your own healthcare completely disobligate you from contributing to everyone else's? |
| 13:54.37 | Lunessa | foxlit: I generally object to government's ability to use taxation to force my choices. |
| 13:55.15 | foxlit | Lunessa: that seems like a slipper slope |
| 13:55.17 | foxlit | y |
| 13:55.35 | Chamenas | The opposite is true. |
| 13:55.48 | Lunessa | foxlit: Taxation is essentially the State using its jack boots on my wallet. :P |
| 13:55.52 | Chamenas | If I allow the government to use my tax money to force my choices, they can abuse it. |
| 13:56.04 | foxlit | "Can I opt out of paying for public schools?" |
| 13:56.12 | foxlit | "Can I opt out of paying for federal disaster relief?" |
| 13:56.21 | foxlit | "Can I opt out of our military investment in Iraq?" |
| 13:56.28 | foxlit | "Can I opt out of paying Congress?" |
| 13:56.29 | Chamenas | There's a balance. Too much, a bad thing. Too little, a bad thing. |
| 13:56.41 | mitch0 | hm. hm. bzr or hg? |
| 13:56.48 | nevcairiel | git |
| 13:56.49 | foxlit | mitch0: vi |
| 13:56.54 | Lunessa | Now, I am not opposed to all taxation - public schools being an example where I generally consent - but in general I want there to be as little of it as feasible. |
| 13:56.55 | mitch0 | nev: git sucks |
| 13:57.07 | nevcairiel | so does every other system, its just a matter of what sucks less. :p |
| 13:57.21 | foxlit | Lunessa: out of interest, what difference is there between healthcare and education? |
| 13:57.23 | mitch0 | yeah, but git sucks _for me_ more than, say, hg |
| 13:57.28 | nevcairiel | I bet you |
| 13:57.42 | nevcairiel | i bet you're one of those people that think it sucks because it doesnt have a native neat windwos gui. :P |
| 13:57.49 | alestane | I know for my father-in-law, it's a guaranteed position for him that anything the government is doing is a waste of taxpayer money that could be done more efficiently at the local private level. |
| 13:57.56 | mitch0 | nev: I work mostly on fbsd |
| 13:57.56 | alestane | It's an article of faith for him. |
| 13:58.17 | mitch0 | nev: it sucks for me because it's more complicated than necessary for my use-cases |
| 13:58.25 | zenzio | nevcairiel: does it have a native Windows CLI client? (not counting the mingw-thing) |
| 13:58.32 | nevcairiel | hg has the same complexity |
| 13:58.35 | foxlit | "nevcairiel: Around here, you pay a percentage of your income for the public health care, if you get a private one, you dont have to pay the public anymore" << this seems somewhat problematic |
| 13:58.38 | mitch0 | no |
| 13:58.43 | Lunessa | foxlit: I don't have a ready argument to hand, but I'd be happy with private education too. |
| 13:58.50 | nevcairiel | zenzio: the mingw thing is the official client these days |
| 13:58.56 | foxlit | without some sort of limitation on on what basis insurance companies are allowed to reject you. |
| 13:59.01 | nevcairiel | the patches required to make it work have been merged into mainline git |
| 13:59.02 | Chamenas | I'm more of a moderate libertarian, but I came to that stance mostly because our society has become reliant on those things and I cannot trust that everyone will make the right decisions in regards to lives that are under their influence. |
| 13:59.05 | Lunessa | Granted - near-universal literacy is a wonderful thing. |
| 13:59.30 | zenzio | nevcairiel: hm, might have to try it then |
| 13:59.50 | mitch0 | nev: besides, git feels just like linux: a hodge-podge jumble ;) |
| 14:00.08 | alestane | Right, part of the position of public education is that it's not really in anyone's interests to let people opt out of basic education on the basis that they don't think it's worth paying for. |
| 14:00.20 | Lunessa | foxlit: See - the thing that strikes me as insane - again - is that insurance is treated like a deferred or collective payment option instead of coverage for disasters. |
| 14:00.21 | nevcairiel | foxlit: the whole health care is really complicated, for one not everyone is eligible to get private health care, its only for people owning their own companies, or people earning more then 50k€ a year |
| 14:01.07 | foxlit | Lunessa: it is presumably both? |
| 14:01.20 | foxlit | If I tripped and broke my leg, that'd be a disaster. |
| 14:01.33 | Kraps | http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/j1s1x/my_battlefield_3_alpha_story/c28hl71 |
| 14:01.34 | Chamenas | The difference, to me, between healthcare and education is that you have person A making a choice over person B, when person B cannot make the choice. So I can accept the government saying "this is the right choice". With universal healthcare, I feel like I'm punished for saying, "hey, I don't need charity. I'll do this thing on my own" |
| 14:01.45 | foxlit | If after a lifetime of booze, smoke, and drugs I required a liver transplant, we'd have a difficult value judgement ahead of us. |
| 14:02.19 | nevcairiel | Chamenas: there is also private schools |
| 14:02.30 | Lunessa | foxlit: Yes, on both cases. I just don't think people really understand what they're asking to be paid for by their premiums. |
| 14:02.43 | Chamenas | Nev: I'm well aware of private schools. I fail to see the relevance. |
| 14:02.44 | nevcairiel | granted, as a kid your parents make your decisions, but you are free to not use the government education |
| 14:02.49 | alestane | Lunessa, I found http://www.slideshare.net/danroam/healthcare-napkins-all fairly incisive. |
| 14:02.57 | nevcairiel | but you still pay for it then, dont you |
| 14:03.05 | Lunessa | For example - we both agree that breaking your leg is a catastrophic event. |
| 14:03.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (~Vilkku@86-60-153-252-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi) |
| 14:03.27 | Lunessa | Or say, contracting cancer. |
| 14:03.50 | zenzio | catastrophic? I'd say breaking a leg is very unfortunate, but catastrophic sounds a bit much |
| 14:03.53 | jnwhiteh | Chamenas: you said "I want the ability to elect not to be covered. It doesn't matter to me if I don't have any access to emergency care in financial distress.". The problem is that in those cases the government ends up footing that bill, which is a large part of how we've gotten into this situation in the first place. |
| 14:04.17 | jnwhiteh | It may not matter to you if you're covered or not, but its in the interest of other people and the government to ensure you are. |
| 14:04.21 | Chamenas | jnwhiteh: But see, you fail to see my point. If I opt out of their healthcare system, I'm fine with being rejected by a hospital. |
| 14:04.32 | jnwhiteh | and that's *not* morally bankrupt? |
| 14:04.41 | Chamenas | That's the price for saying "I don't want to be covered" |
| 14:04.43 | jnwhiteh | You're okay with a system in which human life isn't valued? |
| 14:04.53 | Chamenas | I'm okay with a system where I get to choose. |
| 14:04.58 | Lunessa | Sorry... I'm having a hard time keeping up 'cause work is interrupting. |
| 14:05.00 | jnwhiteh | Where YOU get to choose |
| 14:05.09 | jnwhiteh | What about people who aren't capable of making those sorts of decisions |
| 14:05.17 | jnwhiteh | people who just don't understand |
| 14:05.17 | Chamenas | Yes. Me. I'm not costing anyone by choosing not to be covered under any circumstance. |
| 14:05.29 | Chamenas | Give me an example? |
| 14:05.31 | jnwhiteh | Government isn't about YOU, its about all of the 'you's |
| 14:06.17 | Lopeppeppy | Goverment has to make choices based on collective-people, not on individual-people. Nature of the beast. |
| 14:06.22 | jnwhiteh | indeed |
| 14:06.35 | jnwhiteh | and it may not always fit the individual, but no governance ever would |
| 14:06.38 | Chamenas | You still haven't given me an example of how my choice would cost other 'you's. |
| 14:06.45 | jnwhiteh | Okay |
| 14:06.50 | jnwhiteh | You get into a car accident. |
| 14:06.52 | jnwhiteh | you're sent to the hospital |
| 14:06.54 | jnwhiteh | you can't communicate |
| 14:06.56 | jnwhiteh | you're in a coma |
| 14:07.00 | jnwhiteh | you are costing the government |
| 14:07.02 | zenzio | Lopeppeppy: see what you helping this fainting teen has led to? :-p |
| 14:07.05 | Chamenas | They look up and see if I have insurance. |
| 14:07.06 | Lunessa | jnwhiteh: I agree that human life is precious and of value. And that a safety net is probably needed. But I don't agree that the existence of that safety net absolves people of individual responsibility (in both fiscal and non-fiscal senses). |
| 14:07.16 | Chamenas | They see that I opted out of coverage |
| 14:07.18 | jnwhiteh | Chamenas: so they rely on some bookkeeping system to decide if you live or you die? |
| 14:07.27 | Chamenas | I am not treated. I cost the government nothing. |
| 14:07.29 | jnwhiteh | you trust the government to keep a live/die stamp in your record? |
| 14:07.32 | jnwhiteh | I don't. |
| 14:07.59 | jnwhiteh | Lunessa: no, of course not. |
| 14:07.59 | nevcairiel | arent they bound to help you in such a severe accident without checking your insurance first? |
| 14:08.01 | Chamenas | No, I trust me to do that. I trust me to say "I don't care, don't spend money on me" |
| 14:08.10 | Chamenas | That's the current system, Nev |
| 14:08.21 | jnwhiteh | And you're trusting that they can keep their book-keeping system up to date, and accurate. |
| 14:08.25 | Chamenas | I'm talking about a system where government-funded healthcare is available but is truly an option. |
| 14:08.42 | Lunessa | jnwhiteh: So I don't want a system where the entirety is covered through taxation and the safety net is instead the whole plan. :) |
| 14:08.49 | Chamenas | With the consequences of that option being that I am not covered if I opt out. |
| 14:08.56 | jnwhiteh | You need to stop saying 'I' |
| 14:08.59 | jnwhiteh | because its not about you |
| 14:09.11 | jnwhiteh | or rather, it would make this much easier |
| 14:09.17 | jnwhiteh | I'm obviously not commanding you to stop saying it =) |
| 14:09.22 | alestane | Alternate scenario as jnwhiteh projects it: you do opt in and pay for it. You get sent to the hospital. Someone flubs your paperwork. You are not treated because you "don't have coverage". You die. Your family sues the entire fucking system for wrongful death. |
| 14:09.41 | alestane | Plus, you're dead. |
| 14:09.46 | Chamenas | To me, it's about me. The government protects the individual interest of each member of the collective. That's what it's supposed to be. Obviously it has to compromise because there are a lot of "I"s involved and it can't please all of them. |
| 14:09.57 | jnwhiteh | Ah, that's where you are wrong |
| 14:10.05 | Chamenas | But since I'm a Libertarian, I believe in individual liberties, and the ability to make my own decisions so long as they do not cause harm to others. |
| 14:10.16 | karl_w_w | governments aren't in it for the individual |
| 14:10.19 | jnwhiteh | Governments are not about protecting the individual interests of each member of the collective. |
| 14:10.19 | karl_w_w | they just cant be |
| 14:10.23 | nevcairiel | I can only tell you how its here. You are required to have health care, and everyone gets the public health care - unless you opt out of it. But you can only get out if you get private health care (and those are controlled by laws and regulations as well). So there is no-one without any health care. |
| 14:10.25 | Chamenas | Alestane: Mistakes happen, and they'd happen no matter what system is in place. |
| 14:10.45 | alestane | The question is, how much harm do the mistakes tend to cause? |
| 14:10.49 | Chamenas | Well, that's where we disagree, jnwhiteh |
| 14:11.11 | Chamenas | It's a fundamental matter of opinion. To me, the purpose of government is to ensure that the rights of its citizens are not violated. |
| 14:11.14 | jnwhiteh | well, given that there is no canonical definition of 'government' that even strays into this arena, we're both wrong. |
| 14:11.18 | Chamenas | It has to consider it on a macro level |
| 14:11.19 | alestane | If the default outcome of a mistake is greater loss of life rather than greater loss of work, that's kind of a touchy point. |
| 14:11.23 | Chamenas | But that is its fundamental goal. |
| 14:11.35 | Chamenas | But that's just my opinion. |
| 14:11.44 | Chamenas | Others have different views of what government should be. |
| 14:12.06 | alestane | 10:10 Chamenas: But since I'm a Libertarian, I believe in individual liberties, and the ability to make my own decisions so long as they do not cause harm to others. |
| 14:12.10 | karl_w_w | where do you live Chamenas? |
| 14:12.34 | Chamenas | Alestane, let's presume for a moment that the other system is placed in |
| 14:12.41 | alestane | Complete and utter nitpick: You have it backwards. You identify as a libertarian because you believe in individual liberties first. |
| 14:12.41 | Chamenas | So you get fined for not having insurance |
| 14:12.48 | jnwhiteh | I hate when people preface things with statements like 'But since I'm a Libertarian', it just (in my mind) invalidates most of what you're saying. Why can't you just say what you say rather than (apparently) preaching from the pantry. |
| 14:12.52 | jnwhiteh | alestane: THANK YOU. |
| 14:13.51 | karl_w_w | I guess we should have private and public police forces as well? |
| 14:13.54 | Chamenas | Yes, but the point of putting it first is to say "this is an identifier that explains my beliefs". I only explain a bit further after because I've found that most people often don't understand. |
| 14:14.02 | Chamenas | Anyways, back to my example |
| 14:14.11 | foxlit | The "do not cause harm to others" clause is interestingly flexible |
| 14:14.17 | foxlit | Does your death cause harm to others? |
| 14:14.24 | Chamenas | Billy Joe has insurance and files his paperwork, but the government screws up its book keeping and fines him heavily for not having insurance. He has to go to court to get it all rectified, costing him lots of money. So he sues the government. |
| 14:14.28 | jnwhiteh | foxlit: both financial and emotional, yes. |
| 14:14.35 | nevcairiel | someone has to take care of your rotting corpse, so yes. :p |
| 14:15.11 | Lunessa | (Unrelated to current topics ) The Campus Police chief just sent a hurricane/tropical storm tracking map to the entire staff - from his iPhone. the controls visible in the image. :) |
| 14:15.28 | karl_w_w | when people start dying because they don't have health cover, the goverment gets blamed |
| 14:15.43 | karl_w_w | that's not in the interests of the state |
| 14:15.50 | foxlit | But then that "ability to make my own decisions so long as they do not cause harm to others" is almost a null statement in a discussion of healthcare |
| 14:16.00 | Chamenas | I'm not against the option of government health insurance, Karl. You haven't been following, clearly. |
| 14:16.18 | karl_w_w | I know that. Why do you say that? |
| 14:16.24 | jnwhiteh | Chamenas: to clarify, you are against the government ensuring you have chosen either their public health option or a private health option? |
| 14:16.27 | Chamenas | I just want the option of not being in it. I don't have the money to pay for it and I don't want it paid for me. |
| 14:16.29 | foxlit | you clearly shouldn't be able to opt out because your lack of healthcare is going to harm others. |
| 14:16.33 | foxlit | qed? |
| 14:16.39 | jnwhiteh | foxlit: that's how I see it, yes. |
| 14:16.41 | Fisker | anyone knows if daily quests and raid locks still get reset on server transfer? |
| 14:16.51 | jnwhiteh | that's why the use of 'I' in all of these statements is a huge problem, it's not just about you. |
| 14:16.55 | karl_w_w | raid locks yes |
| 14:17.09 | alestane | Chamenas, opting for rejection based on lack of coverage also costs teh pbulic anything you might have contrubited had you survived. |
| 14:17.14 | Dagmar | foxlit; There's a bigger problem than that |
| 14:17.30 | jnwhiteh | It's about the paramedic and firefighter who pulls you out of the car only to be told that you've chosen to have no health care and thus you're almost certainly going to die, among countless other real scenarios. |
| 14:17.31 | Chamenas | My lack of healthcare causes no direct harm to others. If I choose to be irresponsible with my health then yes, I could cause harm to others, but that's disassociated from my choice to have healthcare or not. |
| 14:17.44 | jnwhiteh | See, that's just where you're wrong. |
| 14:17.51 | jnwhiteh | It causes no harm to others assuming nothing ever happens to you |
| 14:17.55 | Chamenas | You can make all sorts of arguments if you try to investigate all of the indirect options of choices. |
| 14:17.59 | jnwhiteh | As soon as something does, it affects others |
| 14:18.02 | nevcairiel | Chamenas: if you die, someone will have at least a monetary loss from it |
| 14:18.08 | jnwhiteh | nevcairiel: fact. |
| 14:18.15 | Dagmar | There's a much bigger problem that big pharma and sleazy law firms giving excuses to even sleazier insurance adjustors making the entire thing ridiculously expensive |
| 14:18.35 | alestane | Part of the question is also whether the loss of your life is in and of itself considered a public loss. |
| 14:18.56 | Lunessa | foxlit: Which is an argument for compelling everything. "You not participating hurts others, so we can force you to." |
| 14:18.56 | karl_w_w | not just die, if you miss work for a few days a bunch of people will have a monetary loss |
| 14:18.56 | Dagmar | ...and "mandatory coverage" benefits the people who are *the very reason it's all too expensive* more than anyone else. |
| 14:18.56 | Chamenas | That's my choice though. And that's where we disagree. |
| 14:19.05 | Chamenas | I'm sorry, but I feel like my contribution to the public is my choice and my responsibility alone. |
| 14:19.05 | jnwhiteh | but you believe your choice affects no one else. |
| 14:19.09 | jnwhiteh | we're telling you that is not the case |
| 14:19.16 | Dagmar | Fix the medical *system*, then it won't fuckin' matter if some people get "free" coverage or not |
| 14:19.29 | Chamenas | You haven't given me any direct evidence. |
| 14:19.38 | jnwhiteh | Ah yes |
| 14:19.44 | jnwhiteh | our words can't reach you in your ivory tower |
| 14:19.46 | jnwhiteh | my mistake |
| 14:19.47 | foxlit | Lunessa: yes. Which, to me, means the statement is woefully inadequate for describing a consistent position. |
| 14:20.03 | Chamenas | Only indirect assertions which have absolutely no persuasive power. Yeah, government loses tax money, there's a loss there, blah blah, but that's an indirect consequence which I refuse to be held accountable for. |
| 14:20.27 | Dagmar | It's not a good idea to force people to pay money into a system that's been working hard to avoid the effects of competition for so long |
| 14:20.30 | karl_w_w | tough luck Chamenas |
| 14:20.37 | airtonix | hoho |
| 14:20.42 | karl_w_w | if you don't like it, move country or vote for somebody else |
| 14:20.49 | karl_w_w | that's the way the world works |
| 14:20.49 | jnwhiteh | heh, was just going to say that |
| 14:20.50 | airtonix | vote for me |
| 14:21.03 | foxlit | airtonix 2013: Death Panels for Everyone! |
| 14:21.03 | Lunessa | foxlit: It is the basis of all totalitarian states. So it creeps me out to have it used as justification for anything, no matter how initially reasonable it seems. |
| 14:21.07 | karl_w_w | the government has to protect its people whether they like it or not |
| 14:21.24 | airtonix | what's a death panel? |
| 14:21.29 | Chamenas | Sadly there are not, as of yet, any viable candidates to vote for. My only hope is that the country can eventually be persuaded to shift its base to something that agrees with a more fundamentally free system. |
| 14:21.45 | Chamenas | I have to essentially lobby my ideas to enough people to effect change. *shrugs* |
| 14:21.51 | foxlit | Lunessa: what, concern for public good? I'd imagine "Do this, or eat hot lead" is a much more compelling basis. |
| 14:22.01 | airtonix | oh you wouldn't be in debit if your president use linux instead of macosx |
| 14:22.02 | Lunessa | airtonix: Hyperbole about government helath care leading to rationing of care or government deciding you die because your care isn't worth it. |
| 14:22.03 | jnwhiteh | Chamenas: the word 'free' is tainted, you should try to find a better one. |
| 14:22.06 | Chamenas | That's sort of an idealist game at that point though, it's unreasonable to imagine that would work. |
| 14:22.08 | airtonix | just sayn |
| 14:22.08 | jnwhiteh | freedom is quite subjective |
| 14:22.17 | Chamenas | Every word is tainted. |
| 14:22.21 | Chamenas | They're all subjective. |
| 14:22.22 | Lunessa | foxlit: Another thing which creeps me the fuck out |
| 14:22.22 | jnwhiteh | you have the ability to move to any country you would like |
| 14:22.30 | jnwhiteh | that's a much simpler solution |
| 14:22.38 | Chamenas | The more abstract the word is, the more subjective it becomes. |
| 14:22.40 | airtonix | unless you wear a turban |
| 14:22.56 | Chamenas | Having a discussion about the meaning of happiness or love, or any of those things gets really awkward because of how subjective they are. |
| 14:23.08 | jnwhiteh | I don't disagree with you |
| 14:23.12 | foxlit | I keep flashing back to that "Look, A NINJA!!" satw comic :( |
| 14:23.27 | jnwhiteh | I'm just saying I can't agree with your statement as a result of it, because of your particular bias on the word free |
| 14:23.30 | jnwhiteh | *shrug* |
| 14:23.35 | Chamenas | But what's the point in having a thorough discussion on what I mean by freedom when I don't think you'll agree and I don't have the time? I'm sure it could be an engaging conversation, but not one I'm up to at the moment. |
| 14:23.54 | Chamenas | All I'm asking for is the respect that my views are different from yours, but that makes them no less valid. |
| 14:24.00 | airtonix | is this the right time to say umad? |
| 14:24.03 | Chamenas | I don't need you to agree :) |
| 14:24.10 | Lunessa | airtonix: umadbro? |
| 14:24.17 | foxlit | airtonix: is there ever a wrong time? |
| 14:24.18 | airtonix | hellyeah |
| 14:24.20 | alestane | I think there is one other cost: By demanding a system that respects that liberty to choose death, you're potentially inflicting the costs of the mistakes we described before on other. |
| 14:24.23 | Lunessa | rockon |
| 14:24.24 | jnwhiteh | I don't think anyone in this channel has broached that 'respect' line |
| 14:24.48 | airtonix | Chamenas: i respect your views, but do they blend? |
| 14:24.55 | Chamenas | I was told I was wrong, repeatedly. Despite simply disagreeing on opinions. I hardly believe I was necessarily wrong. You just disagreed. |
| 14:25.08 | karl_w_w | airtonix I don't respect umad |
| 14:25.18 | airtonix | oh ok karl |
| 14:25.23 | jnwhiteh | Chamenas: you were wrong because you didn't use "in my opinion" |
| 14:25.29 | jnwhiteh | same as I was when I didn't. |
| 14:25.38 | Chamenas | I don't agree with that though. |
| 14:25.46 | jnwhiteh | stating something that is opinion as fact opens up the wardrobe for someone telling you that you are wrong |
| 14:25.47 | Chamenas | The entire conversation was made in the context of opinion. |
| 14:25.51 | Chamenas | It should hopefully be assumed. |
| 14:25.59 | Kraps | clearly you're both wrong, and thats a fact |
| 14:26.00 | jnwhiteh | okay |
| 14:26.05 | Chamenas | Using "in my opinion" is only applicable when opinion can't be assumed. |
| 14:26.13 | jnwhiteh | so what does the phrase "in my opinion, your opinion is wrong" |
| 14:26.15 | Chamenas | Otherwise we'd have to get unnecessarily wordy. |
| 14:26.18 | jnwhiteh | that means "I disagree with you" |
| 14:26.23 | jnwhiteh | extend the same courtesy to me that you would like |
| 14:26.28 | Lunessa | there are places where it is possible to be wrong in discussing these matters. Any point at which you stray from fact and move on to supposition. We all do it many times a day. When we discuss political and macro-economic factors especially. :P |
| 14:26.30 | airtonix | Chamenas: they always assume i speak from opinion |
| 14:26.37 | jnwhiteh | airtonix: you speak? |
| 14:26.44 | airtonix | good point |
| 14:27.00 | airtonix | brain in a jar |
| 14:27.00 | Kraps | http://kotaku.com/5825464/ea-hopes-to-work-out-an-agreement-with-steam-over-disappearing-games |
| 14:27.08 | karl_w_w | airtonix is that a toothpick in your pocket or are umad? |
| 14:27.14 | Chamenas | hahaha. All I'm saying, essentially. Is I like you guys, in general, and I don't want ill will or bad feelings. Aye? |
| 14:27.25 | jnwhiteh | I don't have any, so I agree, I suppose. |
| 14:27.48 | airtonix | sociopaths here bro |
| 14:27.53 | airtonix | deadpan |
| 14:28.00 | karl_w_w | wonders what the office has to do with EA & Steam |
| 14:28.02 | rtharper | Here's my opinion of all of this Chamenas: you're selfish. The idea behind insurance is that you have to pay over your life for the times when you are ill. You don't get to opt out during the times that you are well, adn then wait until you get older and get sick. And like it or not, you cost people money by getting sick whether you take up healthcare or not |
| 14:28.02 | airtonix | except for fisker |
| 14:28.19 | Chamenas | I figured I would be able to speak my mind and offer an opinion and if disagreement was there it would be said. I didn't expect to be challenged so much though. Not that it's a bad thing, it's a fabulous thing, if I had time for it. But, argh, now I have to put off doing my blog for now, I think. And wait until after work. *sad face* |
| 14:28.23 | rtharper | And you aren't going to deny yourself healthcare for the rest of your life, that;s fucking absurd to suggest |
| 14:28.28 | Lunessa | I can look around the channel and find any number of people in here who I disagree with politically, religiously, or philosophically. I generally genuinely like most of them... except fisker. |
| 14:28.44 | rtharper | and some absurd, dogmatic point of view undermines actual innovation in creating a more prosperous society |
| 14:28.52 | Chamenas | Actually, rtharper, I don't intend to deny myself healthcare for the rest of my life. Just until I can afford it. |
| 14:29.10 | Chamenas | But you are free to your opinion, just don't make unfounded assumptions from it, please? |
| 14:29.12 | rtharper | Chamenas: don't you understand? That's the entire point |
| 14:29.25 | rtharper | if you truly can't afford it, there is a system to help you |
| 14:29.31 | rtharper | if you can, you don't get to choose to spend your moeny differently |
| 14:29.32 | foxlit | Fisker: <3 for being on tab-completion before me :) |
| 14:29.39 | rtharper | doing so increases the cost of healthcare for EVERYONE ELSE |
| 14:29.41 | airtonix | foxlit: you wouldn't download healthcar |
| 14:29.54 | Chamenas | I don't like receiving charity from government programs, it's the way I am. If you see that as selfish, that's your right. |
| 14:29.56 | foxlit | okay, I admit, that as cute. |
| 14:29.58 | rtharper | your concpt of liberty is your ability to fuck other peopel over and take advantage of the system later |
| 14:30.04 | rtharper | Chamenas: then move out of the country |
| 14:30.08 | rtharper | we're better off without you |
| 14:30.09 | Chamenas | But my intent is not to cause other people trouble. I really don't have time to argue this though. |
| 14:30.15 | alestane | THen walk away.\ |
| 14:30.19 | foxlit | "move out of the country" isn't really a reliable option |
| 14:30.21 | Chamenas | Thanks for your kind words. I'll get on that right away. |
| 14:30.35 | Chamenas | With all of the money I obviously have from electing not to pay for health insurance yet. |
| 14:30.36 | alestane | If you don't have time to argue, why are you still arguing? |
| 14:30.55 | karl_w_w | foxlit: it is if you have a pedalboat |
| 14:31.03 | Kraps | i dont like you alestane |
| 14:31.15 | Chamenas | Because clearly I have a choice. I have a choice to do the blog I'm supposed to do and was hoping to do now, but haven't begun. I was actually at a place where parting was a good option. |
| 14:31.19 | foxlit | It strikes me as a somewhat unfortunate last-ditch option in a debate -- "well, if you don't like it..." |
| 14:31.30 | Chamenas | And then I have some idiot telling me that I should get out of the country and that I'm a bad person :) |
| 14:31.40 | Chamenas | "umad" would be applicable here. Of course I'm mad now. |
| 14:31.44 | Lunessa | Nah, most countries won't take people from other nations unless there's a hot-button reason or a good economic incentive. :P |
| 14:31.59 | foxlit | Plus we're behind on our World Government plans -- you can't exactly move around freely just yet |
| 14:32.00 | Fisker | btw jnwhiteh |
| 14:32.02 | karl_w_w | foxlit: it's not the last-ditch option, it's the only option |
| 14:32.10 | Lopeppeppy | I want a bunny. |
| 14:32.14 | jnwhiteh | Fisker: do you like your trans-sexual-former? |
| 14:32.24 | Fisker | yes |
| 14:32.27 | Lopeppeppy | (all this from the poor lamb who fainted at me this morning!) |
| 14:32.27 | Chamenas | It is, in fact, very difficult to simply "leave the country". I'm not in a financial situation that allows me to do so. Whether or not I agree with it, I actually enjoy living here. I'm a law-abiding citizen and I'll do what needs to be done. |
| 14:32.31 | karl_w_w | if you don't like the government, you can attempt to change it, attempt to overthrow it, or leave |
| 14:32.32 | alestane | So you decided it was a more important use of your time to defend yourself from them. And then protested the fact that they *made* that decision necessary. |
| 14:32.33 | Chamenas | It doesn't mean I'll always agree with it. |
| 14:32.49 | jnwhiteh | Fisker: do you find any lag between the keyboard and the device on typing/mouse clicks? |
| 14:32.50 | jnwhiteh | I did =/ |
| 14:32.51 | Chamenas | Telling me that I should leave because I don't agree with you is ridiculously absurd. |
| 14:33.08 | jnwhiteh | Well, to be fair, he said the country would be better off without you |
| 14:33.17 | jnwhiteh | it wasn't an isolated command to leave the country =) |
| 14:33.22 | Lunessa | uploads a bunny for Lopeppeppy |
| 14:33.24 | Chamenas | (10:29:50 AM) rtharper: Chamenas: then move out of the country |
| 14:33.30 | jnwhiteh | yes, and he said something afterwards |
| 14:33.30 | alestane | I said "walk away" only in respect to your claim that you didn't have time to argue. Apologies if that wasn't clear enough. |
| 14:33.30 | Kraps | not really, the WBC can go to korea |
| 14:33.37 | Fisker | i don't have the keyboard jnwhiteh |
| 14:33.38 | jnwhiteh | don't hold it against someone when they press the enter key, i do it quite a lot =) |
| 14:33.49 | Fisker | and i won't be getting it until the end of next month |
| 14:33.54 | jnwhiteh | Fisker: ah. I'd like if it ran a full-scale OS as well as Android, but that's probably asking too much |
| 14:33.56 | Chamenas | That thing afterwards didn't affect his statement. It was still a statement telling me to leave simply because we don't agree. |
| 14:33.58 | Lopeppeppy | http://dramareduction.org/ |
| 14:33.59 | Chamenas | That's a bit much. |
| 14:33.59 | jnwhiteh | Fisker: ah, you're still dealign with the tehbrokenone? |
| 14:34.12 | Lopeppeppy | In this case, a bunny = cat sitter... |
| 14:34.13 | Chamenas | Alestane: I wasn't referring to you. |
| 14:34.33 | airtonix | jnwhiteh: transformer? |
| 14:34.34 | rtharper | No, I was rude Chamenas, I'll own up to it, I cannot stand that in a time when the country is tearing itself apart for the sake of political self-interest that people like you are still engaging in such sophistry |
| 14:34.40 | alestane | Did the one you mentioned yesterday not work out, Peppy? |
| 14:34.53 | Chamenas | I'm pretty fed up with all of the political division and rhetoric myself. |
| 14:35.05 | Lopeppeppy | She didn't farkin' call. *sigh* If you don't have space, just say so, don't let me hope. |
| 14:35.10 | jnwhiteh | is listening to the Sailor Moon theme. kthx. |
| 14:35.14 | karl_w_w | fuck it |
| 14:35.16 | Chamenas | But that doesn't mean I don't have my own views and that I don't want to express them. That doesn't mean I'm going to break any laws or make the situation worse. |
| 14:35.17 | karl_w_w | im moving to china |
| 14:35.17 | airtonix | :< |
| 14:35.21 | alestane | English or Japanese, jnwhiteh. |
| 14:35.22 | rtharper | You live in one of the freeëst countries in the world and enjoy one of the smallest tax burdens. |
| 14:35.25 | alestane | ? |
| 14:35.26 | *** join/#wowuidev daev (~bleh@184.17.240.5) |
| 14:35.36 | jnwhiteh | alestane: this is the terrible english one, but I think the japanese is up next, if not i"ll make it |
| 14:35.40 | jnwhiteh | the starlights theme is my favourite |
| 14:35.46 | Fisker | naw jnwhiteh |
| 14:35.50 | Fisker | i don't have the physical keyboard |
| 14:35.52 | Chamenas | And I'll just write the blog after work today. Not a huge issue, I would have just liked to write it earlier, but the blame for not getting that done falls entirely on me. |
| 14:36.03 | alestane | Thanks for owning that, Chamenas. |
| 14:36.04 | jnwhiteh | although I have three in German as well |
| 14:36.07 | rtharper | And you have the gall to claim that the state is infringing on your rights for attempting to address a serious, fundamental issue in our society |
| 14:36.15 | rtharper | because you can't see past your own bloody nose |
| 14:36.16 | Chamenas | rtharper: Where in anywhere did I imply that I hated my country? |
| 14:36.22 | Lunessa | rtharper: Indeed, and I'd like to stay that way. :) I disagree that a single-payer system makes the country more free. |
| 14:36.44 | karl_w_w | freedom is overrated |
| 14:36.44 | Chamenas | Where in anywhere did I say anything about it not being free and awesome? I think it could be better, that's not a bad thing. We all imagine the places we live could be better. |
| 14:36.48 | alestane | Tom, could you take five? Not a criticism of any of your opinions or goals, but your back seems to be up. |
| 14:36.49 | rtharper | Lunessa: The US does not have a single-payer system |
| 14:36.57 | Lunessa | I know. :) |
| 14:37.02 | karl_w_w | there's no community in freedom |
| 14:37.10 | airtonix | Lopeppeppy: do you like raddish? |
| 14:37.13 | Dagmar | The US has a multiple-companies-trying-their-damnedest-not-to-pay system |
| 14:37.29 | rtharper | Lunessa: and a single payer system would rpboably not work in the US |
| 14:37.29 | airtonix | karl_w_w: lawl |
| 14:37.49 | rtharper | but an individual mandate is nothing new, it's how the majority of European countries approach healthcare |
| 14:37.50 | Dagmar | NOt while insurers are morally bankrupt, no |
| 14:37.51 | Fisker | nice |
| 14:37.55 | Fisker | 3.2 is out as well today jnwhiteh |
| 14:38.01 | airtonix | Fisker: i hate you |
| 14:38.02 | Lopeppeppy | airtonix, I will eat a radish on a salad sometimes. |
| 14:38.03 | Lunessa | rtharper: *nod* I also don't really like the "public option" as laid out. But I do want systemic reforms. :) |
| 14:38.03 | jnwhiteh | Fisker: I saw that somewhere |
| 14:38.35 | airtonix | Fisker: did you jail break your iFormer? |
| 14:38.39 | rtharper | Lunessa: *shrugs* the way I see it you have to deal with that end of the bell curve somehow |
| 14:38.48 | rtharper | if that's through subsidies, direct payment by the government, whatever |
| 14:38.51 | karl_w_w | why the lawling airtonix? |
| 14:38.53 | Fisker | no airtonix |
| 14:39.08 | airtonix | Fisker: oh you scared of viruses? |
| 14:39.09 | Fisker | i did however root it and flash cwm recovery on it |
| 14:39.19 | rtharper | Lunessa: to me, as long as everyone has access to healthcare, the rest can be worked out |
| 14:39.36 | Fisker | last i heard other OS's are based on basic security principles airtonix so no |
| 14:39.37 | Lunessa | I concur. Just not as a mandate. :) |
| 14:39.47 | airtonix | Fisker: did you hear that apparently android has roughly 65 thousand viruses available? |
| 14:39.53 | rtharper | Lunessa: there will otherwise always be people who choose not to pay |
| 14:39.58 | karl_w_w | the only truly free people I can think of is sociopathic serial killers |
| 14:40.11 | rtharper | Lunessa: which is fiscally irresponsible |
| 14:40.11 | airtonix | Fisker: according to mcaffee |
| 14:40.12 | karl_w_w | and even then there are probably rules they follow |
| 14:40.31 | alestane | I could be one if I really wanted too...does my not exercising a freedom mean I'm not free? |
| 14:40.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraftman (~Kraftman@94.197.127.82.threembb.co.uk) |
| 14:40.57 | jnwhiteh | alestane: none of us are free until we take the blue pill. |
| 14:40.58 | Kraps | karl_w_w: i only stalk women between age 25-30 |
| 14:41.01 | Lunessa | Maybe, but I don't like guys with guys and prisons getting to tell me what I do or don't do. There are other ways. We just need to figure them out. |
| 14:41.07 | alestane | I'm hearing the doctor from Stranger in a Strange Land in my head a lot in this discussion. |
| 14:41.10 | jnwhiteh | or the red pill.. or Viagra, or.. whichever one it is. |
| 14:41.15 | airtonix | jnwhiteh: what do you think about the hp touchpad? |
| 14:41.26 | airtonix | and webos 3.2 |
| 14:41.33 | Chamenas | I thought Viagra was blue |
| 14:41.35 | Lopeppeppy | Is this one of those political discussions that will never end in happy joy joy agreement, so we should just laugh and let it go? |
| 14:41.51 | airtonix | Lopeppeppy: we are talking about webOS 3.2 now |
| 14:41.54 | airtonix | try to keep up |
| 14:41.57 | Chamenas | I love you, Lopeppeppy. |
| 14:41.59 | Kraps | no Lopeppeppy, srs is srs |
| 14:42.06 | Lopeppeppy | excellent, that should also be political. |
| 14:42.07 | Fisker | slaps Chamenas around a bit with a large trout |
| 14:42.13 | Lopeppeppy | Love you too, Chamenas. |
| 14:42.16 | Chamenas | :D |
| 14:42.17 | Lopeppeppy | Fisker, stop giving away my lunch. |
| 14:42.22 | airtonix | releases the dinosaur |
| 14:42.28 | jnwhiteh | airtonix: I haven't heard good things about WebOS, but I want something that can actually run the software I need it to |
| 14:42.49 | jnwhiteh | I don't want to run a crippled tablet-only OS, but that's me conflating my needs, I think. |
| 14:43.05 | airtonix | so you like your transformer? |
| 14:43.47 | jnwhiteh | I don't have one |
| 14:43.51 | airtonix | oh |
| 14:44.47 | airtonix | so you don;t have a tablet then? |
| 14:44.59 | jnwhiteh | nope |
| 14:44.59 | Chamenas | Alright, well, blog will be done later, but work cannot be held off and I must prepare! It was good to engage you all in conversation, even if brief and slightly divisive. I still think you're wonderful people though! |
| 14:45.09 | jnwhiteh | I was playing with someone else's transformer yesterday |
| 14:45.17 | alestane | I must issue a retraction. |
| 14:45.36 | alestane | THe doctor I was thinking of does not appear in Stranger in a Strange Land, but in THe Moon is a Harsh Mistress. |
| 14:45.52 | alestane | Chamenas, take care and stay sane. |
| 14:46.11 | Fisker | oh ok Lopeppeppy |
| 14:46.11 | Dagmar | Just because it changes size when you play with it doesn't make it a Transformer. |
| 14:46.13 | Fisker | slaps Lopeppeppy around a bit with a large trout |
| 14:46.24 | Kraps | oh snap Dagmar |
| 14:46.27 | Dagmar | hehe |
| 14:46.36 | airtonix | hoho |
| 14:47.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (~xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 14:48.01 | airtonix | oh wow |
| 14:48.08 | airtonix | the touchpad doesn't have a 3g connection |
| 14:48.34 | Lunessa | Dagmar: More than three shakes is playing with it anyway |
| 14:51.45 | airtonix | Fisker: does the transformer have a 3g device? |
| 14:52.20 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v nicoli_s] by ChanServ |
| 14:52.35 | Lunessa | jnwhiteh: So, Android for a tablet is right out? |
| 14:53.03 | jnwhiteh | Android *alone* for a tablet, yeah. |
| 14:53.16 | jnwhiteh | dual boot would be acceptable. |
| 14:53.46 | Lunessa | Ahh, 'cause I was going to suggest rooting a Barns and Noble Nook COlor and installing a full version of Honeycomb. |
| 14:53.50 | Dagmar | You would be looking at pain trying to dualboot |
| 14:54.16 | airtonix | why a nook? |
| 14:54.21 | jnwhiteh | Lunessa: the Nook Color can dual boot, so that would work |
| 14:54.37 | Lunessa | And it's pretty inexpensive. :) |
| 14:54.53 | Dagmar | I'd prefer a transformer but no one around here has them in freaking stock |
| 14:54.54 | airtonix | what other OS would you use ? |
| 14:55.05 | Dagmar | Looks like I'm probably buying a xoom tonight or this weekend |
| 14:55.08 | airtonix | Dagmar: put on on backorder ? |
| 14:55.10 | jnwhiteh | airtonix: linux |
| 14:55.13 | airtonix | with b & n |
| 14:55.16 | jnwhiteh | some distro |
| 14:55.21 | airtonix | jnwhiteh: which one? |
| 14:55.26 | airtonix | meego? |
| 14:55.29 | Dagmar | You won't be dualbooting LInux on them easily because they are not x86. |
| 14:55.33 | Dagmar | Your options will be limited |
| 14:55.35 | jnwhiteh | no, ubuntu and friends |
| 14:55.39 | jnwhiteh | Dagmar: many distros support arm |
| 14:56.01 | airtonix | jnwhiteh: so you can put ubuntu on a nook and it will work good ? |
| 14:56.15 | airtonix | or wil you be reducing it to a window manager like openbox? |
| 14:56.43 | airtonix | or is unity good enough? |
| 14:56.48 | bluspacecow | http://www.wowbash.com/image-19509.html |
| 14:56.50 | Dagmar | Unity might actually not suck ass on a tablet |
| 14:57.05 | airtonix | since that's its intended target |
| 14:57.06 | jnwhiteh | I dunno |
| 14:57.25 | Dagmar | airtonix: The main reason for not ordering and waiting is that I've got a $100-off coupon here |
| 14:57.32 | Dagmar | Has to be in-store stock |
| 14:57.34 | airtonix | does the nook have bluetooth that will work with a bluetooth keyboard? |
| 14:57.53 | airtonix | Dagmar: well the xoom isn't bad |
| 14:57.59 | Dagmar | THer'es also the small matter that I'm not in a hurry to give ASUS any more of my money after having to RMA the same EEEPC 1000 four goddamn times |
| 14:58.35 | airtonix | but very few android tablets have host usb ports |
| 14:58.45 | Dagmar | I feel like for any further interactions with them I should just go ahead and poop in the box when I ship it |
| 14:59.19 | Lunessa | In all these conversations I feel the need to ask - What Would Don Draper Do? |
| 14:59.20 | Dagmar | airtonix: Well, thanks to software you're supposed to be able to connect thumbdrives to the Xoom |
| 15:00.05 | Dagmar | I woudn't really mind the full-size SDcard in the transformer, but it's not like I intend to tote around that much media locally |
| 15:00.37 | airtonix | yeah being able to transfer media via large pportable storage device is a nice option |
| 15:01.26 | Dagmar | I have considerably larger storage devices tho |
| 15:01.37 | Fisker | no airtonix |
| 15:01.40 | Fisker | not out of the box |
| 15:01.48 | Fisker | some people have used 3g modems with it though |
| 15:01.54 | Fisker | and they're releasing a 3g version as well |
| 15:01.57 | airtonix | what does that mean ? |
| 15:02.02 | airtonix | a 3g usb dongle? |
| 15:02.46 | Fisker | yes |
| 15:02.54 | airtonix | that sucks |
| 15:02.59 | Fisker | how so? |
| 15:03.45 | Dagmar | Having 32gb on the device and a microSD card slot for another potential 32 should be plenny |
| 15:05.29 | Fisker | Alram |
| 15:08.18 | Fisker | transformer can have fullsized sd cards if you got the dock Dagmar |
| 15:09.13 | airtonix | waht needs to be done to make the 3g usb dongle work with the transformer? |
| 15:09.24 | airtonix | i'd rather have it inbuilt though |
| 15:09.58 | Fisker | just need the driver module basically |
| 15:11.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (Vilkku@86-60-153-252-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi) |
| 15:12.21 | airtonix | jnwhiteh: hey you can use c++ in webos |
| 15:13.41 | jnwhiteh | kk |
| 15:17.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (~Kalroth@3e6be73f.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 15:18.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Robsato (~Robsato@wetering.xs4all.nl) |
| 15:22.43 | Fisker | btw jnwhiteh |
| 15:22.48 | Fisker | ready to get me a nexus 3 btw? |
| 15:23.16 | airtonix | ready for lulz? |
| 15:23.35 | Fisker | you're never ready for lulz |
| 15:23.39 | Fisker | otherwise it wouldn't be lulz |
| 15:23.43 | airtonix | i know |
| 15:23.46 | airtonix | :< |
| 15:23.59 | airtonix | it's so depressing |
| 15:29.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@catv-178-48-162-10.catv.broadband.hu) |
| 15:34.12 | Lopeppeppy | Preserve me from ever working in HR, the legal-ese destroys me. |
| 15:36.30 | airtonix | ok come and work for me |
| 15:36.34 | airtonix | i'll teach you linux |
| 15:36.51 | airtonix | that'll free you up from dealing with legal stuff lulz |
| 15:38.07 | Lopeppeppy | But learning *ix is a deadly contagious disease! |
| 15:38.28 | airtonix | i have a storehouse of immunisation |
| 15:38.34 | airtonix | stuffs |
| 15:38.41 | airtonix | thingies |
| 15:40.18 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 15:40.18 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 15:46.21 | Lunessa | airtonix: All injectable? |
| 15:47.33 | airtonix | slow release subdermal ampules |
| 15:47.54 | Lunessa | No fun at all. |
| 15:50.13 | Fisker | Lopeppeppy |
| 15:50.21 | Fisker | will 2 piece of T12 drop for me? |
| 15:50.28 | *** join/#wowuidev kasterma (~kasterma@kasterma.colorado.edu) |
| 15:50.34 | airtonix | no |
| 15:50.42 | airtonix | not for peasants |
| 15:54.30 | *** join/#wowuidev bt (~bt_@ip-94-79-138-88.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 15:58.16 | Lopeppeppy | Fisker, I think that T12 will drop, but you will be out-rolled, or whatever the equivalent is for your run (outbid, etc) |
| 15:59.37 | Fisker | yes |
| 15:59.45 | Fisker | it's guaranteed for me if it drops |
| 15:59.47 | Fisker | so thanks Lopeppeppy |
| 15:59.48 | Fisker | yay |
| 16:00.20 | Xinhuan | lua> (512*512 - 480*320)*4 |
| 16:00.21 | lua_bot | Xinhuan: 434176 |
| 16:00.30 | Fisker | hey Xinhuan |
| 16:01.06 | Torhal|work | attaches Fisker to a zig. |
| 16:01.31 | Xinhuan | lua> (1024*1024 - 960*640)*4 |
| 16:01.32 | lua_bot | Xinhuan: 1736704 |
| 16:01.48 | Xinhuan | zzz |
| 16:03.33 | Lopeppeppy | I hope my mojo works, dear. |
| 16:03.53 | Xinhuan | fucking iphones and their texture size requirements |
| 16:04.04 | Fisker | yusomadbro? |
| 16:04.57 | Lopeppeppy | Yeep. tell us how you feel, Xinhuan |
| 16:05.16 | Xinhuan | i feel the need to smash faces |
| 16:06.01 | Xinhuan | probably have to use spritesheets, and probably write a manager to load and unload them on demand |
| 16:06.23 | airtonix | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:06.58 | Lopeppeppy | Let's make Friday part of the weekend and give every new baby a chocolate eclair. |
| 16:07.08 | airtonix | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYrDhu0zBi0 |
| 16:07.12 | airtonix | YUUUUUSSSSS |
| 16:10.05 | *** join/#wowuidev rtharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 16:10.49 | rtharper | Apologies for my behaviour earlier, everyone |
| 16:10.52 | rtharper | was inappropriate and off-topic |
| 16:11.15 | airtonix | inb4 Fisker |
| 16:11.42 | Kraps | wowuidev has no topic, therefore your argument is invalid |
| 16:12.52 | Lopeppeppy | hugs rtharper. We all get our soapbox moments sometimes. |
| 16:13.10 | airtonix | jnwhiteh: why don't you get one of these : http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/769831-REG/Fujitsu_Q550_30GB_01_30GB_Stylistic_Q550_Slate.html |
| 16:14.02 | Kraps | everyone and their mother is making a tablet, how to choose?! |
| 16:14.25 | jnwhiteh | cost |
| 16:14.33 | jnwhiteh | I'm not terribly in the market for a tablet |
| 16:14.37 | jnwhiteh | just firming up my requirements =) |
| 16:15.24 | Lopeppeppy | cost, speed, etc. |
| 16:15.37 | Kraps | also, which os? android has at least 5 different ones i think |
| 16:16.17 | *** join/#wowuidev rtharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 16:17.39 | karl_w_w | ~ping |
| 16:17.39 | purl | ~pong |
| 16:18.59 | Fisker | so jnwhiteh |
| 16:19.06 | Fisker | how ready are you to get me that there Nexus 3? |
| 16:20.17 | karl_w_w | o wat |
| 16:20.33 | karl_w_w | if u swear in a youtube comment it ges in for approval? |
| 16:20.39 | karl_w_w | s/ges/goes/ |
| 16:20.42 | Fisker | umad karl_w_w ? |
| 16:20.51 | karl_w_w | no |
| 16:21.08 | Fisker | then y'd you swear? |
| 16:21.19 | karl_w_w | "Who the fuck is Kevin Smith?" |
| 16:21.57 | karl_w_w | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_smith LOLOLOL |
| 16:22.36 | karl_w_w | look now, im rolling it back :P |
| 16:22.39 | Kraps | Kevin Patrick Smith (born August 2, 1970) is a monstrously obese 9/11 conspiracy nut |
| 16:22.48 | Kraps | thats who |
| 16:23.54 | airtonix | yumadtho |
| 16:24.19 | Lopeppeppy | Nice. |
| 16:24.22 | karl_w_w | that was epic timing |
| 16:24.53 | Fisker | fuck you karl_w_w |
| 16:25.03 | karl_w_w | just a quickie Fisker |
| 16:28.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (~Srosh@d056012.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 16:29.18 | alestane | "Why'd I give myself the Marcel Marceau part? Well, mostly because I can't really act." |
| 16:32.33 | *** join/#wowuidev bt (~bt_@ip-94-79-138-88.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 16:33.03 | bt | is there a faster way to update addons than /script reloadui? |
| 16:33.25 | alestane | That's the only time that the files are read from disk. |
| 16:33.41 | Kraps | why is hulu recommending the bachelorette to me? i hate it and similar shows with every fiber of my being |
| 16:34.05 | bt | shame, thought maybe there was something to reload a single addon |
| 16:35.38 | Lopeppeppy | Yes! An awesome Peppy shirt! http://www.zazzle.com/shirt_to_make_people_keep_their_distance-235269187588313727 |
| 16:35.50 | bt | do ui replacements deactivate the default ui or just hide the frames? in the first case i could just use that to speed it up |
| 16:36.11 | airtonix | neither |
| 16:36.20 | alestane | Yes, I remember the shirt you were wearing the first day of BlizzCon. |
| 16:36.31 | Lunessa | Lopeppeppy: I find myself filled with conflicting emotions. |
| 16:36.51 | airtonix | bt: simply creating a frame that ddoes the job of a player health and mana does not imply deactivation of the original purposed ui |
| 16:37.04 | bt | yea im aware of that |
| 16:37.13 | bt | but you could defaultui:Hide() |
| 16:37.17 | airtonix | nor does it imply that it will doe anything to the original ui |
| 16:37.27 | bt | instead of actually deactivating them from loading |
| 16:37.36 | airtonix | you can't stop them from loading |
| 16:37.41 | bt | ah oka |
| 16:37.44 | bt | +y |
| 16:37.48 | airtonix | you have to hide them |
| 16:37.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Yoshimo (~Miranda@p549994F7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:38.12 | Lopeppeppy | I know, Lunessa. I'm usually very squishy and huggable, but at a certain point in a con, I just want to stab people in the eye for thinking of it, if they're people I don't know who think hugging girls is just what you do. |
| 16:38.23 | Xinhuan | hiding them doesn't do what you might expect though, you typically want to also unregister all events on those frames so they stop processing any events |
| 16:38.48 | airtonix | ^ |
| 16:38.52 | bt | was about to ask if you unhook :) |
| 16:38.54 | *** join/#wowuidev NiLoni (nilon@62-113-191-177.bb.dnainternet.fi) |
| 16:38.54 | *** join/#wowuidev NiLoni (nilon@unaffiliated/nilon) |
| 16:38.56 | airtonix | you are expected to do everything |
| 16:39.31 | Xinhuan | and as always anything you do to the default UI can conflict with another addon which might be expecting differently |
| 16:41.21 | Kraps | my mouse runs on one battery even though it has 2 slots |
| 16:41.23 | Kraps | like a baws |
| 16:42.02 | bt | i still worship the cable , stable no problems no lag or lost packets |
| 16:42.56 | bt | oh and no rage incase you forgot to load it |
| 16:42.57 | airtonix | Fisker: whats this light bleed problem about? |
| 16:43.09 | Fisker | penis airtonix |
| 16:43.15 | Fisker | btw i hate you Lopeppeppy :( |
| 16:43.53 | Lopeppeppy | Ah well. I tried. |
| 16:44.10 | airtonix | Fisker: you should get a doctor check that bleeding |
| 16:44.33 | mikma | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSXmTspTAe8 |
| 16:44.57 | Fisker | wnot well enough though Lopeppeppy |
| 16:47.11 | Lunessa | Lopeppeppy: But, but, but... they're so SHINY! |
| 16:47.34 | alestane | Girls are, Lunessa? |
| 16:47.36 | airtonix | Fisker: really, explain the light bleed |
| 16:47.41 | Lunessa | *nod* |
| 16:47.51 | alestane | Well, I can't disagree with you there. |
| 16:48.36 | Fisker | it's the seal on the backlight and the screen not being good enough |
| 16:48.50 | Fisker | so the light from the backlight bleeds through the edges and causes the screen to "bleed" |
| 16:49.27 | airtonix | is it annoying? |
| 16:49.58 | Fisker | depends on how bad it is |
| 16:50.20 | airtonix | http://au.ilanyolla.com/1041_asus-eee-pad-transformer-3g-android-3-0-tablet-with-keyboarddocking-64gb-usd-499 |
| 16:50.23 | airtonix | fake? |
| 16:50.53 | airtonix | Sold by: yung ya |
| 16:51.18 | airtonix | sounds legit |
| 16:56.06 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar_work (~sylvanaar@tut.qvssoftware.com) |
| 16:56.33 | Fisker | wsounds mad airtonix |
| 16:58.37 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy1 (~Mike@68.36.135.0) |
| 16:59.12 | *** join/#wowuidev dolby (~dolby@MMOI/Administrator/pdpc.silver.dolby) |
| 16:59.12 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o dolby] by ChanServ |
| 16:59.46 | airtonix | Fisker: lol |
| 17:00.15 | airtonix | australia, ringring, "you have the transformer in stock?", "the what? you mean the ipad2?", FUUUUUUUUU |
| 17:00.39 | Fisker | ell oh ell |
| 17:00.40 | airtonix | http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1705043 |
| 17:00.46 | Fisker | obvious troll though airtonix |
| 17:00.54 | Fisker | because he knows the transformer is a tablet then |
| 17:02.25 | Lunessa | are you shopping for shiny new toys? |
| 17:03.02 | airtonix | heres lulz: asus lists a bunch of stores that you can get the transformer from |
| 17:03.18 | airtonix | ring those stores , answer is "what's a transformer?" |
| 17:03.25 | airtonix | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:04.06 | airtonix | and people trying to order it through intermediate shipping agent are having their orders cancelled |
| 17:05.07 | Fisker | there was also a campaign here that advertised mobile broadband for phones laptops and ipads |
| 17:05.08 | Fisker | i raged |
| 17:05.15 | Fisker | then a few days later it was tablet |
| 17:05.18 | Lunessa | a) A device for converting one voltage/amperage to another. b) a giant robot character that folds/unfolds into something else, based on toys from Hasbro. c) a device fisker wants but can't find for sale locally. d) ALL OF THE ABOVE |
| 17:05.58 | Fisker | wat Lunessa ? |
| 17:08.47 | alestane | What is, a "transformer", Alex. |
| 17:08.58 | alestane | I'll take Ambiguites for $600, please. |
| 17:09.14 | Kraps | Lunessa: earlier is was a euphemism for a penis |
| 17:09.15 | Lunessa | The Answer is our Daily DOuble! |
| 17:09.19 | Kraps | it* |
| 17:10.24 | Lunessa | A politician's stance on a divisive issue. |
| 17:11.05 | alestane | I'll bet $3000. |
| 17:11.21 | alestane | What is "waffle", "flipflop" or "stall?" |
| 17:11.46 | Lunessa | Correct. We would have also accepted "double-talk" or "poppycock" |
| 17:12.35 | Fisker | wrong alestane |
| 17:12.53 | alestane | I've come to the conclusion watching Jeopardy that they're eventually going to film one episode they can't air, because it's going to be the one where Alex Trebek dies. |
| 17:13.06 | alestane | He's clearly not planning to retire. |
| 17:13.36 | alestane | Or perhaps I should say "intending" |
| 17:14.01 | Lunessa | Well, would you? I mean, he's got a sweet deal. They pay him a shitload of cash to stand up there, make crappy small-talk and sound superior. |
| 17:14.26 | alestane | Hey, it's nice work if you can get it. |
| 17:14.27 | *** join/#wowuidev nicoli_s (~test@173-14-207-161-huntsville.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 17:14.27 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v nicoli_s] by ChanServ |
| 17:15.00 | alestane | He's been hosting that show for as long as I've been watching it. |
| 17:17.19 | Lunessa | He was hosting that show before we were born. |
| 17:18.19 | alestane | Let's see, if I want to programmatically pad all numbers from a range to the base-10 digit length of the longest number in that range, would that be math.ceiling(math.log10(maximum + 1))? |
| 17:18.30 | alestane | I thought Art Fleming was still hosting it in the 70s? |
| 17:18.39 | Torhal|work | alestane: Alex took over in '84 |
| 17:18.56 | alestane | And I don't think I was watching it before I was 8, so yeah. |
| 17:19.11 | Lunessa | alestane: Apparently true. I was just looking at wikipedia to see if I was speeking soothe. |
| 17:19.30 | Lopeppeppy | You always speak soothingly, Lunessa, except when you rabble rouse. |
| 17:19.49 | Lunessa | I'll rouse your rabble, missy. |
| 17:19.58 | alestane | /popcorn |
| 17:20.18 | Lopeppeppy | Rawr. |
| 17:20.35 | Lopeppeppy | Is it wrong to think that you two playing Jeopardy is cute? |
| 17:20.49 | alestane | Should it be? |
| 17:21.09 | alestane | I'm generally in favor of anything that makes Peppy think I'm cute. |
| 17:21.44 | foxlit | alestane: maximum = 0? |
| 17:21.58 | Lunessa | Today the part of Alex Terbek will be played by Lunessa. |
| 17:22.31 | alestane | Won't that formula equal 0 in that case, foxlit? |
| 17:22.33 | foxlit | yes |
| 17:22.40 | foxlit | but presumably 0 is still 1 digit in base 10. |
| 17:23.01 | alestane | However, if my maximum is zero, I don't have a range. |
| 17:23.09 | alestane | At least not of natural numbers. |
| 17:23.22 | foxlit | a complicated way of saying "will never happen" :) |
| 17:23.33 | alestane | And since I'm enumerating things for this, I shouldn't encounter that case. |
| 17:23.51 | alestane | Basically, I have a bunch of files that have a number sequence in their name. |
| 17:23.59 | alestane | I know how many there are. |
| 17:24.12 | Lopeppeppy | Numbers are all un-natural. |
| 17:24.23 | alestane | SO I can pick a random number, insert it into the constant portion of the name, and request that file. |
| 17:24.34 | foxlit | As long as you're only dealing with positive numbers, your answer is fine |
| 17:24.58 | alestane | The question is, should I name them 1, 2, 3 ...10, 11...20..., or 01, 02, 03...etc. |
| 17:25.33 | alestane | And if there turned out to be 100 or more, I'd want to graduate to 001, 002, 003 in that case without having to recode. |
| 17:26.56 | foxlit | 00001 are better in my experience |
| 17:27.27 | foxlit | it lets things that naively sort file names display them in proper order |
| 17:27.34 | alestane | Of course, that also means that if I had <99 and added enough to go over 100, I'd have to rename all my files. |
| 17:28.59 | *** join/#wowuidev rtharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 17:29.16 | alestane | Sorting isn't critical to this application, so in the interests of simplicity, I might go with the simple tonumber. |
| 17:29.38 | alestane | But it's good to know I could solve the problem if it were important. |
| 17:33.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (~Jamash@99-92-173-110.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:40.47 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
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| 17:42.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan (~pancake@cpe-024-163-020-210.triad.res.rr.com) |
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| 17:44.00 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 17:56.17 | *** join/#wowuidev mckenziemc (~Mark@dialup-4.246.255.252.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net) |
| 17:57.59 | Lopeppeppy | Knock knock! Who's there? Invisible cat sitter! Invisible cat sitter who? *ahem* That would be whom, I believe, and the point is the invisibility. If I told you, you'd know. *head desk* |
| 17:59.44 | alestane | Did they finally call? |
| 18:00.54 | Fisker | i can sit your cat Lopeppeppy |
| 18:06.26 | mckenziemc | just don't sit /on/ it |
| 18:08.55 | *** join/#wowuidev rtharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 18:10.45 | Lopeppeppy | No alestane, that's why they're invisible. And Fisker is already prohibited from making Siamese sashimi, so there. |
| 18:25.49 | *** join/#wowuidev rtharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 18:29.17 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 18:39.51 | Fisker | no Lopeppeppy |
| 18:58.57 | AcidWeb | http://goo.gl/9uF1r |
| 19:03.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Wa (~wa@50.45.197.23) |
| 19:06.02 | Fisker | licks Sixen |
| 19:11.23 | Fisker | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOShDfU6pVo <-tee hee |
| 19:15.18 | *** join/#wowuidev nebula169` (~nebula@c-75-73-235-102.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 19:23.39 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3|netbook (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 19:23.52 | kd3|netbook | yay. google music beta invite |
| 19:25.25 | Fisker | lol kd3|netbook |
| 19:25.51 | kd3|netbook | now to put everything on an external hard drive and go somewhere (like here, at school) where I have more than crap bandwidth |
| 19:26.45 | foxlit | Hm, can I desaturate to a specific tint? |
| 19:28.03 | foxlit | Basically, keep luminosity the same, but adjust the hue for every pixel |
| 19:30.06 | foxlit | (of a texture in wow) |
| 19:30.33 | kd3|netbook | there... should be some way? |
| 19:30.49 | kd3|netbook | doesn't really want to fire up gimp to check on this craptop |
| 19:30.55 | kd3|netbook | hm... |
| 19:31.06 | foxlit | gimp? |
| 19:31.24 | kd3|netbook | easiest way for me to see how to do it in general since I don't have wow installed |
| 19:31.52 | foxlit | Wouldn't whatever you can do in gimp be irrelevant for the purposes of having to do it on a texture inside wow? |
| 19:39.57 | Lunessa | This external vendor just got ticked that I wouldn't just give him our network key for wifi. I loled at him. |
| 19:40.48 | Lopeppeppy | Yeah. The boyfriend gets that all the time. "Just give them the guest password!" .... um, the entire point is that there ARE NO GUESTS! |
| 19:40.59 | Lopeppeppy | Stay off our wi fi, you crazy parking lot people. |
| 19:41.16 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 19:41.16 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 19:41.30 | Torhal|work | WiFi Lot Lizards? |
| 19:42.19 | Lopeppeppy | Seriously. Just a step up from the ones who cruise looking for unsecured wi fi. They collect keys/logins from anywhere they can get them. |
| 19:43.52 | Lunessa | By law we have to know who is on our network. So we use PEAP. And don't give out a generic guest account. |
| 19:45.09 | Fisker | hey kd3|netbook btw |
| 19:45.15 | Fisker | omg diablo 3 beta? |
| 19:45.34 | Lopeppeppy | But OMG gimme some accesses right naow! |
| 19:45.55 | Fisker | naw Lopeppeppy |
| 19:46.09 | Lunessa | The guy was - well how long does getting an account take? I told him that if they got me the paperwork by 5 I'd do it today. You should have seen him roll his eyes. |
| 19:46.44 | Lunessa | Sorry buddy, I'm not getting fired to make your life easy. :P |
| 19:46.49 | Lopeppeppy | OMG gimme accesses naow! I cannot wait for your legal obligations, they hamper my freedom of speech! |
| 19:47.37 | Lunessa | He wants to use his laptop on our network to program some machine controllers we lease from his company. Fine. Just needed to know that before you needed network access, hey? |
| 19:48.19 | Lopeppeppy | When did "open access to everyone's resources" become something people felt entitled to? Used to be that before you showed up to do a job, you'd tell them that you needed x, y, and z to complete it. So that x, y, and z would be available. |
| 19:48.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Thunder_Child (~Thunder_C@WoWUIDev/PITA/TC) |
| 19:49.11 | Lunessa | I used to feel bad that I couldn't help. Now I just explain the facts and point to the state law. |
| 19:50.26 | Lunessa | I have however been proposing a system we could use that would be compliant and would mean I don't have to make a domain account for every single person ever. I'm waiting to see if the Director will buy into the idea. |
| 19:51.02 | Thunder_Child | is it really that hard to make the account? |
| 19:51.08 | Fisker | i once made an account |
| 19:51.23 | Lunessa | No, it's not. But there's lots of them and lots of paperwork for each one. |
| 19:51.25 | *** join/#wowuidev rtharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 19:51.44 | Fisker | y so paperwork? |
| 19:51.45 | Lunessa | 5 minutes to make an account, 15 minutes to do all the required paperwork. |
| 19:52.03 | Lunessa | So 4 accounts can eat up an hour, easy. |
| 19:52.08 | Fisker | seems like you should script yourself out of it |
| 19:52.17 | Lunessa | Can't script paper. |
| 19:52.21 | Thunder_Child | can |
| 19:52.22 | Fisker | sure can't |
| 19:52.25 | Fisker | can* |
| 19:52.29 | Thunder_Child | create a fillable form |
| 19:52.31 | Fisker | just print it out after you scripted it |
| 19:52.34 | Thunder_Child | script info into it |
| 19:52.52 | *** join/#wowuidev mitchnull (~opera@catv3EC944A1.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 19:53.40 | Lunessa | I already use a fillable form. But I have to collect physical signatures (thanks legal for denying my request to accept digital sigs) and put shit in real filing cabinets and crap. |
| 19:54.12 | Fisker | what is it? Some kind of NDA or some shit? |
| 19:54.17 | Fisker | Shouldn't HR be taking care of that bS? |
| 19:54.19 | Fisker | BS* |
| 19:54.21 | Arrowmaster | you could build a robot to put it in the filing cabinets! |
| 19:54.30 | Lunessa | Of course, I've managed to implement enough change around here that I only have 15 minutes instead of the 30+ it used to be. |
| 19:54.39 | Thunder_Child | really? legal needs to take a look at what is acceptable now. |
| 19:55.24 | Lunessa | If I get my way, I will cut out 90% of this crap soon. Based on what other state agencies are doing I can probably sell it. |
| 19:56.14 | Lunessa | Then a script can just collect MAC Addresses and an email address and stuff it in a database file and I can do a lot less paperwork. |
| 19:56.45 | Lunessa | But change is slow. People here fear change. |
| 19:56.58 | Thunder_Child | so do i, i hate coins |
| 19:57.38 | Arrowmaster | yeah that shit waying down my pocket is annoying |
| 19:57.45 | Fisker | oh nice |
| 19:57.55 | Lunessa | Most days, I like my job. Today, meh, not so much. |
| 19:57.58 | Fisker | i'm gonna spoof my MAC address then |
| 19:57.59 | Fisker | hoho |
| 19:58.14 | Lunessa | I |
| 19:58.36 | Lunessa | I'll worry about YOU spoofing your MAC when you're in Texas on my campus. |
| 19:59.02 | Arrowmaster | a teacher did that at my college |
| 19:59.12 | Arrowmaster | to show the network security was weak |
| 19:59.19 | Fisker | Lopeppeppy |
| 19:59.42 | Fisker | i'm still up for catsitting if you get me inside Lunessa's workplace |
| 19:59.55 | Thunder_Child | i did the same using net send at my school....that was amusing |
| 20:00.06 | Lopeppeppy | Tsk tsk, fisker. No sushi. |
| 20:00.11 | Lunessa | Our campus is open to the public. Our network is not. :P |
| 20:00.12 | Fisker | i used to troll our incompetent admins in school too |
| 20:00.30 | Fisker | also trolled the teachers sometime |
| 20:00.33 | Fisker | like |
| 20:00.35 | Arrowmaster | one of the buildings was setup with cert based authentication but the printers dont support it so they were whitelisted by mac address, and you can just walk upto a printer and make it print out a status page with the mac address on it |
| 20:00.45 | Fisker | it was recess |
| 20:00.50 | Fisker | and i went up to the computer |
| 20:00.57 | Fisker | and since the domain forces classic mode on xp |
| 20:01.01 | Fisker | i put a space after his name |
| 20:01.02 | Fisker | HOHO |
| 20:01.10 | Thunder_Child | recess? what 5th grade? |
| 20:01.20 | Fisker | no Thunder_Child |
| 20:01.29 | Fisker | the word isn't specific to a grade |
| 20:01.32 | Fisker | learn2dictionary |
| 20:01.41 | Fisker | but it was lulz |
| 20:01.43 | Fisker | he couldn't login |
| 20:01.51 | Fisker | even had the admin reset their password and shit |
| 20:03.45 | TMc51 | ^ and this is why I physically lock down my PC when I'm AFK. |
| 20:04.07 | Fisker | what you mean like with a key? |
| 20:04.12 | Fisker | jerk |
| 20:04.34 | Fisker | you should've seen the fun we had with password reset disks and the group policy editor |
| 20:04.43 | TMc51 | passlocked, and then lock the doors so it cant be reset. |
| 20:05.24 | kd3|netbook | wow. not that I particularly like McCain, but his speech yesterday was full of win |
| 20:05.56 | kd3|netbook | http://idle.slashdot.org/story/11/07/28/146202/McCain-Decries-Hobbits-Accused-of-Ringbearing |
| 20:05.57 | Lopeppeppy | Politics are best observed with a handful of darts, and popcorn. |
| 20:05.57 | TMc51 | McCain? Let me guess, the speech was about kicking out all the Mexicans, or something? |
| 20:06.21 | kd3|netbook | more like calling the teabaggers "hobbits" |
| 20:06.33 | kd3|netbook | they responded by calling him the ringbearer, apparently |
| 20:06.37 | TMc51 | lol |
| 20:06.48 | alestane | Goddammit, I dreamed that there were chocolate-frosted donut holes. I ate one and then left to do something and come back. And in the middle of that, I started waking up and was desperately trying to get back to the donuts before I woke up all the way and they were lost forver. |
| 20:08.02 | Fisker | anyway |
| 20:08.08 | Fisker | we took the group policy editor |
| 20:08.15 | Fisker | and make it basically impossible to run any programs |
| 20:08.21 | Fisker | then forced the IE homepage to a certain page |
| 20:08.36 | alestane | This is what I get for napping in midaftenoon. |
| 20:08.37 | Fisker | one maybe involving "meatspin" or even "goatse" |
| 20:08.39 | Fisker | hohoho |
| 20:08.40 | kd3|netbook | also, wow. Newest attraction at Toronto's CN Tower: EdgeWalk, where you walk (while tethered) on a 1.5 meter grate OUTSIDE the tower at the top of its 356 meter span. City officials say they expect $1.2 million revenue just from selling clean underwear [Scary] |
| 20:08.54 | kd3|netbook | http://www.canada.com/travel/Tower+EdgeWalk+terror/5169250/story.html |
| 20:08.55 | TMc51 | Fisker: I was expecting the page to be something about party lemons. |
| 20:09.10 | Arrowmaster | Fisker: you know you could have forced everybodys desktop backgrounds to be it |
| 20:09.12 | Fisker | nah that shit was just gross |
| 20:09.18 | Fisker | i could Arrowmaster |
| 20:09.21 | Fisker | but that would ruin the surprise |
| 20:10.40 | Kraps | i suddenly got more free space while defragmenting |
| 20:10.57 | TMc51 | Kraps: a wizard did it |
| 20:11.35 | TMc51 | mmmmm |
| 20:11.49 | TMc51 | cream soda and a bag of munchos. i'm in my own little heaven right now. |
| 20:13.32 | Arrowmaster | so an old highschool friend told me if i didnt have any luck finding a job to send him my resume and he would see if there were any openings at the company he works for, i did after a while and he replied that there werent any right now but somebody pointed out to him one on monster.com that i meat the requirements for |
| 20:13.42 | Arrowmaster | i checked it and its a fucking help desk job =( |
| 20:13.46 | Lunessa | kd3|netbook: I would do it. I've stood in the tower and looked through the glass floor. :) |
| 20:14.04 | kd3|netbook | hell, I'd do it too even though I'm pretty acrophobic above 30 feet |
| 20:14.09 | kd3|netbook | adrenaline > acrophobia |
| 20:14.10 | foxlit | meat those requirements harder, Arrowmaster. |
| 20:14.14 | Kraps | help me Arrowmaster |
| 20:14.33 | Lunessa | foxlit: That sounds like filmable material. |
| 20:14.45 | krka | "meating the requirements" is not a euphemism i've heard before |
| 20:15.10 | kd3|netbook | lol |
| 20:15.11 | Arrowmaster | actually i dont even have all the requirements for the help desk job, i dont have a "Microsoft Certified Professional (MCP) Operating System certification or higher Microsoft certification" |
| 20:23.17 | Thunder_Child | krka: you need to get out more |
| 20:24.07 | foxlit | does buttonfacade do spell overlays? |
| 20:24.17 | foxlit | (the glowy proc effects on action buttons) |
| 20:27.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Zyn (~skreeee@h187n4-av-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 20:27.21 | *** part/#wowuidev mitchnull (~opera@catv3EC944A1.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 20:30.54 | Kraps | i'm having a hard time playing the chick character in borderlands |
| 20:31.55 | Thunder_Child | really? she is the best imo |
| 20:33.20 | *** join/#wowuidev blueberry1 (~blueberri@ip70-173-203-107.lv.lv.cox.net) |
| 20:34.29 | Kraps | Thunder_Child: what spec did you use |
| 20:37.10 | Thunder_Child | Kraps: something like http://www.borderlandsthegame.com/skilltree/lilith/#21500000055500515050500 |
| 20:37.15 | Thunder_Child | i went all ranged |
| 20:37.20 | Thunder_Child | elemental weapons |
| 20:37.34 | Thunder_Child | and a stupid fast reload and fire rate for smg's |
| 20:37.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (~Daniel@c-98-225-45-244.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 20:38.28 | Arrowmaster | if you are having problems get the 'girl power' talent |
| 20:38.55 | Thunder_Child | i might have picked that up as well, i dont remember it's been a while |
| 20:38.56 | *** join/#wowuidev isman (~drag@mna75-2-82-67-196-34.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:39.14 | Arrowmaster | specifically 'diva' 'inner glow' and 'girl power' |
| 20:39.55 | Arrowmaster | those should be your talents that make you able to survive almost anything |
| 20:40.42 | Thunder_Child | hmm...i did get mind games |
| 20:40.46 | Kraps | i see, thanks |
| 20:41.35 | Kraps | Thunder_Child: thats not in your spec |
| 20:41.46 | Kraps | or did you get it later? |
| 20:45.07 | Arrowmaster | i started having trouble when i was playing as roland until i respeced to something like this http://www.borderlandsthegame.com/skilltree/roland/#01000000050500005550005 |
| 20:45.29 | Arrowmaster | and because of the defensive abilities it made me fucking unstoppable |
| 20:45.30 | Thunder_Child | Kraps: http://www.borderlandsthegame.com/skilltree/lilith/#21505005555000555050500 |
| 20:46.37 | Arrowmaster | the 'recharge sheild when you kill an enemy' is probably the most important thing to have |
| 20:46.57 | Thunder_Child | Cauterize is such a stupid ability |
| 20:47.58 | Arrowmaster | 1 point in it can be useful if you like to use big AoE weapons like missile launchers |
| 20:48.53 | Thunder_Child | i mean the idea is stupid |
| 20:49.02 | Arrowmaster | yeah |
| 20:49.09 | Arrowmaster | its useless if you arent doing coop |
| 20:49.59 | Arrowmaster | and even then your partner has probably learned how to avoid taking health damage |
| 20:53.13 | Arrowmaster | well unless your partner is mordecai, he doesnt have a shield regen ability |
| 20:53.26 | Arrowmaster | but hes got health regen |
| 20:54.21 | Cide | are the wow login servers down or something? |
| 20:54.25 | Dewin | Seem to be |
| 20:54.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Silker (~ponies@87.112.157.27) |
| 20:54.42 | Cide | cool, thanks |
| 21:00.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal|work (~torhal_wo@173-14-207-161-huntsville.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 21:04.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Ingela (~Ingela@90-230-170-118-no35.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 21:07.41 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 21:07.41 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 21:09.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Xyphoid (~xyph@unaffiliated/xyphoid) |
| 21:16.11 | Dewin | login servers seem back up |
| 21:19.02 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 21:25.18 | Thunder_Child | getting dressed is such an important meal of the day |
| 21:47.32 | *** join/#wowuidev snild_ (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 21:48.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraftman (~Kraftman@94.197.127.213.threembb.co.uk) |
| 21:50.15 | karl_w_w | oh to be robert pattinson |
| 22:10.11 | Kraps | karl_w_w: ...what about being him |
| 22:10.38 | *** part/#wowuidev gsnerf (~gsnerf@dslb-088-073-007-122.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 22:10.57 | Gnarfoz | being ugly? |
| 22:11.05 | Gnarfoz | unkempt? ;o |
| 22:16.08 | Kraps | getting to hang out with kristen stewart is a plus, unless shes really dumb, then its a minus |
| 22:16.24 | Thunder_Child | anyone know a small dvd burning software with overburn? |
| 22:17.24 | Fisker | TV guys are dicks |
| 22:17.35 | Fisker | so after V has been cancelled they're finally showing it here |
| 22:17.43 | Fisker | knowing that it basically ends in a cliffhanger |
| 22:17.44 | Fisker | jerks |
| 22:17.45 | Fisker | jeeerks |
| 22:20.29 | Gnarfoz | same in Germany Fiskrrrr |
| 22:20.39 | Gnarfoz | good thing I don't watch stuff on local TV |
| 22:21.57 | Ackis | You've collected 181 of 189 pets. |
| 22:22.13 | Gnarfoz | you're set for the 175 pets achievement, then |
| 22:22.34 | Cide | that's over 9000*10^-3 |
| 22:22.34 | *** join/#wowuidev karl_w_w (~karl@203.59.10.191) |
| 22:23.23 | Cide | it's over 2*9000*10^-2 as well |
| 22:26.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Chamenas (~Chamenas@98.118.7.162) |
| 22:28.14 | Chamenas | Salut |
| 22:29.42 | nicoli_s | bonjour |
| 22:35.08 | Torhal|work | sells Ackis to Breanni. |
| 22:35.19 | Chamenas | ca va? |
| 22:35.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Monolit (postid08@178.162.37.246) |
| 22:35.57 | Fisker | hey Gnarfoz |
| 22:35.59 | Fisker | btw nicoli_s |
| 22:36.22 | Fisker | my responsibility is to the truth, scientific truth and personal truth |
| 22:36.39 | Chamenas | puts up a "Don't Feed the Trolls!" sign next to Fisker. |
| 22:38.00 | Torhal|work | pours 200 litres of milk down Fisker's pants. |
| 22:38.29 | Chamenas | I like how the GSL uses ESPN music now. |
| 22:38.31 | Chamenas | Makes me laugh. |
| 22:39.11 | Fisker | didn't notice any today |
| 22:39.33 | Chamenas | notice any what? |
| 22:39.43 | Fisker | depends on what you were just discussing |
| 22:39.47 | Fisker | i'm sure you can figure it out |
| 22:43.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Borgleader (~borgleade@modemcable253.146-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 22:59.13 | *** join/#wowuidev TMc51 (~TMc51@cpe-74-71-30-131.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 23:11.32 | karl_w_w | Thunder_Child: imgburn? |
| 23:11.51 | Thunder_Child | karl_w_w: trying that now, though it seems to not let me want to do it |
| 23:11.56 | Thunder_Child | stupid 31 mb |
| 23:12.11 | karl_w_w | i find it generally just doesnt work |
| 23:12.18 | karl_w_w | might be drive dependant |
| 23:12.26 | Thunder_Child | from what i read it worked better on CD's than DVD's |
| 23:12.49 | karl_w_w | yeah |
| 23:13.07 | karl_w_w | is it a +R or -R? :P |
| 23:13.35 | Thunder_Child | - |
| 23:14.29 | karl_w_w | nero overburns as well |
| 23:14.51 | karl_w_w | though you'll probably just have to burn less :P |
| 23:15.00 | Thunder_Child | yea, i only wanted something small |
| 23:15.08 | Thunder_Child | no choice, it's a movie |
| 23:15.16 | Thunder_Child | i'll just have to compress it more |
| 23:15.29 | karl_w_w | do you have the source? |
| 23:15.34 | Thunder_Child | yes |
| 23:15.41 | karl_w_w | awesome :P |
| 23:15.53 | karl_w_w | what are you compressing it as? |
| 23:16.15 | Thunder_Child | i'm reducing from DL to single |
| 23:16.23 | Thunder_Child | 10 to 4 more or less |
| 23:16.32 | Thunder_Child | or 8 |
| 23:17.10 | karl_w_w | I use dvd shrink |
| 23:17.18 | karl_w_w | always get the right size |
| 23:17.50 | Thunder_Child | i was using dvd rebuilder |
| 23:17.59 | Thunder_Child | supposedly does a good job |
| 23:18.04 | Fisker | lols |
| 23:18.15 | Thunder_Child | since i dont feel like doing it manually |
| 23:18.21 | Fisker | impulse is selling software that requires installing a trojan!1 |
| 23:18.36 | Thunder_Child | so does WoW |
| 23:18.42 | Fisker | but ok i guess you can't blame them for double standards when they got sold |
| 23:26.07 | p3lim | Anyone know why UnitAura's 2nd argument 'name' wont work with debuffs? |
| 23:26.10 | p3lim | Works well with buffs |
| 23:27.23 | foxlit | name aliasing? |
| 23:28.13 | p3lim | Im testing it with Mangle, also tried with Faerie Fire |
| 23:28.22 | p3lim | just doesnt seem to work with debuffs at all |
| 23:28.30 | foxlit | pass a filter. |
| 23:28.36 | foxlit | or, more specifically, pass a debuff filter. |
| 23:28.36 | p3lim | tried that |
| 23:28.44 | p3lim | 'HARMFUL' |
| 23:28.50 | foxlit | fourth. |
| 23:28.55 | p3lim | tried UnitDebuff too, which forces that filter |
| 23:29.32 | foxlit | UnitAura("target", "Mind Vision", nil, "HARMFUL") works for me |
| 23:29.44 | p3lim | hm |
| 23:29.51 | foxlit | "By default UnitAura has "HELPFUL" as an implicit filter - you cannot get back BOTH helpful and harmful at the same time." |
| 23:30.16 | p3lim | Ah, thanks for that one, that explains it |
| 23:35.34 | *** join/#wowuidev daev (~bleh@184.17.240.5) |
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