| 00:04.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Ingela (~Ingela@90-230-170-118-no35.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 00:06.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Maldivia (~the_real@gaia.duckpond.dk) |
| 00:06.43 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 00:06.47 | kd3 | yay |
| 00:07.20 | Adys | gcc -Wstrict-overflow -Wunused-but-set-variable -Wehave-warnings-for-everything |
| 00:08.25 | mckenziemc | D: |
| 00:10.01 | Adys | ../../sqlite/sqlite3.c:47696:5 |
| 00:10.02 | Adys | wtf |
| 00:10.06 | Adys | dare i open that file |
| 00:11.00 | Cide | excellent |
| 00:11.03 | Cide | and no |
| 00:11.04 | Cide | sqlite is evil |
| 00:11.18 | Cide | and mongodb is worse |
| 00:12.03 | Adys | what the hell is this shit |
| 00:12.50 | Adys | oh thank god its autogenerated |
| 00:12.58 | Adys | http://dpaste.com/555345/ |
| 00:13.01 | Adys | eyetwitches |
| 00:15.23 | Cide | ew |
| 00:15.28 | Corrodias | yikes |
| 00:15.44 | Corrodias | well, that's fine, but it obviously isn't intended to be EDITED in that state |
| 00:15.51 | Corrodias | let me rephrase |
| 00:15.57 | Corrodias | it obviously shouldn't be in that state to be edited |
| 00:16.57 | Cide | I'm not so sure |
| 00:17.15 | Cide | I for one love editing 50k+ loc files |
| 00:18.44 | Adys | git commit sqlite3.c -m "Replace spaces by tabs" |
| 00:18.44 | Adys | [4.7 24038f6] Replace spaces by tabs |
| 00:18.44 | Adys | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:18.51 | Adys | \o/ |
| 00:20.33 | Corrodias | tabs, yay! |
| 00:22.06 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~alestane@c-24-147-48-101.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 00:22.07 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 00:23.03 | Cide | once upon a time I contemplated dating Adys |
| 00:23.09 | Cide | now I'm hating him instead |
| 00:23.11 | Adys | yeah right |
| 00:23.15 | Adys | we almost had sex |
| 00:23.28 | Cide | almost |
| 00:23.30 | Cide | sixth base |
| 00:23.40 | Adys | only reason we didnt is because you know we'd still be at it if we had started |
| 00:23.50 | Adys | also wtf is the point of this http://www.freeopener.com/ |
| 00:24.11 | *** join/#wowuidev vince` (vince@70-36-134-69.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 00:24.33 | Cide | maybe to get rid of the fucking security updates from adobe |
| 00:24.36 | Corrodias | It appears to be a one-stop shop for document viewing |
| 00:24.44 | Adys | no |
| 00:24.47 | Adys | http://www.freeopener.com/formats.html |
| 00:24.50 | Adys | it just.. opens shit |
| 00:25.11 | Adys | and i dont think it actually opens it, it just opens the relevant apps |
| 00:25.12 | Adys | what? |
| 00:25.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Chamenas (~Chamenas@pool-173-76-192-176.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 00:26.08 | Cide | wtf |
| 00:26.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Sum_Wun (~sum_wun@cpe-97-106-239-114.stx.res.rr.com) |
| 00:28.36 | Adys | lol it needs .net |
| 00:30.27 | Corrodias | It's so suspicious. |
| 00:30.31 | Adys | i know |
| 00:30.51 | Adys | i quadruple-checked, its not virus/spyware |
| 00:30.54 | Adys | its just... shitware |
| 00:31.02 | Adys | uselessware maybe |
| 00:31.07 | Ackis | wait it must be coded by Adys then! haha |
| 00:31.08 | Adys | i dont know how you call this.. windowsware? |
| 00:31.17 | Adys | since when do I code in .net Ackis |
| 00:31.27 | Torhal | Adys: Since when does Ackis code? |
| 00:31.29 | Torhal | hides. |
| 00:31.31 | Corrodias | i'd probably lump it in with shovelware |
| 00:31.41 | Adys | Torhal: *grins* |
| 00:31.44 | Corrodias | like to 5,000 backup programs that do more or less the same thing, badly |
| 00:32.54 | Adys | Shovelware (or Crapplet) is a derogatory computer jargon term that refers to software noted more for the quantity of what is included than for the quality or usefulness. |
| 00:32.55 | Adys | i like |
| 00:37.21 | *** join/#wowuidev inthedrops (~chatzilla@c-76-29-92-142.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 00:47.26 | Ackis | Torhal: http://theoatmeal.com/blog/fix_computer |
| 00:47.33 | Torhal | Noes! |
| 00:48.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Nechckn (~N@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Admin/Nechckn) |
| 00:48.46 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Nechckn] by ChanServ |
| 00:51.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (~quassel@124-168-170-200.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 00:55.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-4572cb11.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 00:55.23 | Kraps | herps some derps |
| 00:57.54 | Kraps | "We crossed a milestone at Pandora today: this morning we began trading as a public company on the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE) under the symbol "P." " |
| 00:59.23 | Adys | ...? |
| 00:59.38 | Kraps | what |
| 01:00.12 | kd3 | wait, what? /Pandora/ got a single-letter stock ticker symbol? |
| 01:00.24 | Adys | apparently |
| 01:01.27 | Kraps | is that a big deal? |
| 01:01.41 | Adys | Until fairly recently, single-letter ticker symbols were reserved for only industry titans like AT&T ("T" for telephone) or Ford ("F," obviously, for Ford), however the practice has changed in the era of the digital market. |
| 01:11.38 | Adys | http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux-display-amd64-275.09.07-driver.html is out |
| 01:11.42 | Adys | still no linux3 support |
| 01:11.51 | Adys | how hard is it to change a string check |
| 01:11.51 | Adys | :( |
| 01:12.42 | Kraps | http://www.thedailyblink.com/2011/06/epic-fire-kittiez |
| 01:14.26 | Adys | http://weltall.heliohost.org/wordpress/2011/05/30/linux-3-0-0-rc1-and-nvidia/ |
| 01:14.57 | Adys | fuck it, afk. |
| 01:27.39 | Ackis | nerds: http://logitech.lithium.com/t5/Headphones-Headsets-Microphones/Crackling-Sound-and-no-output-from-mic-G930/td-p/636270 help me! :'( |
| 01:27.42 | Ackis | (raiding) |
| 01:30.34 | *** join/#wowuidev pajlada (~pajlada@83.233.30.24) |
| 01:45.07 | *** join/#wowuidev karl_w_w (~karl@203-206-48-254.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 01:52.10 | *** join/#wowuidev dardack_ (~chatzilla@static-68-236-159-143.alb.east.verizon.net) |
| 02:17.02 | Kraps | "Hopefully, given the diversity of Mass Effect players' millions of Shepards, they'll surprise us with something other than the default female version of the commander." |
| 02:17.19 | Kraps | how does that even make sense? |
| 02:18.08 | Kraps | <cranky old guy> you give them an inch... </cranky old guy> |
| 02:20.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (~Xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 02:21.47 | Kraps | http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/battlefield_bad_company/archive/2011/06/16/physical-warfare-pack-available-to-all-battlefield-3-players.aspx |
| 02:21.56 | A-KO | sigh |
| 02:22.03 | A-KO | people on the wow forums need to shut the fuck up and let the professionals work |
| 02:22.16 | A-KO | and stop bitching about the authenticator change, of which they know NOTHING about. |
| 02:22.56 | Kraps | A-KO: link? |
| 02:23.11 | A-KO | tech boards :P |
| 02:23.24 | A-KO | they're alight with people saying "I'D JUST LIKE TO FEEL SAFER WITH ENTERING MY AUTHENTICATOR EVERY TIME" |
| 02:23.27 | A-KO | Feel safer |
| 02:23.30 | A-KO | that's all security's about |
| 02:23.33 | A-KO | making you FEEL safe |
| 02:23.38 | A-KO | .... |
| 02:23.43 | Dagmar | There was a change?? |
| 02:24.14 | A-KO | Dagmar: Blizzard implemented a dtection algorithm that determines if you're using the same PC that you always use to login, and if you are, it waves the authenticator requirement. |
| 02:24.30 | A-KO | I'm sure it's a fairly complex system by most standards, as Blizzard's security/dev teams are actually *really* good |
| 02:24.41 | Kraps | waives* |
| 02:24.50 | Kraps | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:24.53 | A-KO | :P |
| 02:25.13 | A-KO | They haven't published what heuristics they use, though I suspect they could and it wouldn't matter. |
| 02:25.40 | A-KO | It's probably a combination of a few PC-specific things (Windows ID), IP address, etc. |
| 02:25.49 | A-KO | I should perhaps test it one day |
| 02:25.57 | Dagmar | Seems fine to me |
| 02:26.01 | A-KO | yeah |
| 02:26.10 | A-KO | but a lot of people are like "BUT I WANT TO FEEL SAFE ENTERING MY CODE" |
| 02:26.21 | A-KO | the reality is that this idea is a GREAT one, as it will encourage more people to get authenticators that didn't have them before |
| 02:26.25 | A-KO | because two-factor is a pain in the ass |
| 02:26.33 | Dagmar | Perhaps they should leave off the shifty porno sites |
| 02:29.39 | Dagmar | ...or maybe they could install Placebo Anti-virus |
| 02:30.19 | Corrodias | or just give up and play good games |
| 02:32.14 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 02:32.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (~quassel@124-168-170-200.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 02:32.29 | Dagmar | This is epic. |
| 02:32.31 | kd3 | sigh |
| 02:32.31 | Dagmar | https://github.com/MrMEEE/bumblebee/commit/a047be85247755cdbe0acce6#diff-1 |
| 02:33.18 | kd3 | ouch |
| 02:33.22 | Dagmar | Yeah. |
| 02:34.16 | Kraps | http://i.imgur.com/3bx3I.jpg i dont get this |
| 02:34.43 | Nobgul-BNC | =X |
| 02:34.48 | Kraps | oh i see |
| 02:36.26 | Dagmar | They got it in just under the wire |
| 02:36.40 | Nobgul-BNC | that's what people get for running code they don't check ^^ |
| 02:37.53 | Kraps | hehe nice http://i.imgur.com/CJq8X.png |
| 02:38.10 | Ackis | SOMEONE fix my headset :'( |
| 02:38.25 | Kraps | buy a new one |
| 02:38.27 | Jamash | and that, ladies and gents, is why you should always quote file names in shell scripts |
| 02:38.37 | Nobgul-BNC | lol |
| 02:38.47 | Nobgul-BNC | i agree Jamash |
| 02:39.25 | *** join/#wowuidev pantsninja (~Syrae@c-69-181-66-52.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 02:39.44 | Jamash | rm -rf '/usr /lib/nvidia-current/xorg/xorg' is harmless unless for some strange reason you have a directory named '/usr ' |
| 02:39.55 | Dagmar | The script invokes rm -rf as root. |
| 02:40.05 | Dagmar | It bears looking carefully at, regardless. |
| 02:40.17 | Dagmar | ...and _you know_ using a packager for pete's sake |
| 02:40.25 | Nobgul-BNC | umm |
| 02:40.37 | Nobgul-BNC | unless im crazy most linux distro's have a /usr |
| 02:40.43 | Nobgul-BNC | ir may be ./usr |
| 02:40.49 | Nobgul-BNC | hrmm now i need to look |
| 02:40.56 | Dagmar | Well, not the ones run by users trying to install Bumblebee on their laptops. :) |
| 02:41.06 | Dagmar | They don't have one anymore. Heh |
| 02:41.15 | Nobgul-BNC | lol |
| 02:41.27 | Jamash | Nobgul-BNC: '/usr' not equal '/usr ' |
| 02:41.57 | Nobgul-BNC | Ubuntu ships with /usr |
| 02:42.14 | Dagmar | Either way if the did the sensible thing and simply passed that list of directories to a function that _checks if they're empty first_ then it wouldn't be a problem |
| 02:42.18 | Jamash | every distro has a /usr |
| 02:42.24 | Nobgul-BNC | I thought so =P |
| 02:42.36 | Nobgul-BNC | i reckon most programs are run out of /usr/bin |
| 02:42.45 | Dagmar | It's bad in principle for a shell script to ever make an assumption like "We can delete this directory--only our files were in there" outside of the build root. |
| 02:43.10 | Jamash | no distro I know of has forward slash letter yew letter ess letter arr space forward slash as a directory |
| 02:44.25 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 02:44.55 | Dagmar | It still woudln't be correct to rm -rf '/usr/lib/nvidia-current/xorg/xorg' |
| 02:45.23 | kd3 | whee, had to fake a disconnect to get the helldesk tech to send someone out here |
| 02:45.24 | kd3 | sighs |
| 02:45.49 | Jamash | one thing I like about linux is that directory names can have any octet except 0x00 and 0x2F (forward slash) in their name |
| 02:47.35 | Jamash | so you can do crazy things like mkdir "`echo -n -e '.. \b\r\n'`" |
| 02:51.56 | Jamash | Dagmar: that's true, but it would be less incorrect |
| 02:56.25 | Jamash | https://github.com/MrMEEE/bumblebee/commit/a047be85247755cdbe0acce6#commitcomment-433578 |
| 02:58.00 | TC-Laptop | interesting, steam is selling hardware now http://store.steampowered.com/app/901666/ |
| 02:58.03 | *** join/#wowuidev blzp (~blzp@S010600259c530357.vn.shawcable.net) |
| 02:58.55 | TC-Laptop | or it's a hoax, because the video is....odd. |
| 02:59.39 | Jamash | zomg it's a sixaxis? |
| 03:00.37 | Jamash | also that's clearly some sort of portal2 garry's mod thing |
| 03:01.49 | Dagmar | Now just wait for someone to add drivers to an Illusion game |
| 03:02.07 | Jamash | oh it's actually portal 2 dlc |
| 03:03.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (~Xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 03:03.47 | Jamash | but how many games other than portal 2 are going to support the extra functions? |
| 03:04.09 | Dagmar | Probably at least Illusions latest title |
| 03:04.53 | Jamash | who or what are illusion? |
| 03:05.08 | Dagmar | You're probably happier not knowing. heh |
| 03:05.17 | Dagmar | They're asian |
| 03:05.40 | Jamash | oh good grief |
| 03:06.36 | Dagmar | Last I heard they had dual mouse support for something or other |
| 03:06.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (~Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:06.44 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 03:06.48 | Dagmar | I'm pretty sure I'm happy not knowing what for |
| 03:08.04 | Jamash | I hesitate to imagine what they'll do with the Kinect SDK |
| 03:09.35 | Jamash | speaking of which, the kinect sdk beta is out today |
| 03:09.43 | Mr_Rabies | why not both |
| 03:10.10 | Mr_Rabies | kinect plus that plus a pico projector eyepiece/glasses and i'm set |
| 03:10.13 | Mr_Rabies | that's future enough me |
| 03:10.15 | Mr_Rabies | for me* |
| 03:11.19 | Jamash | what would kinect do for you that the hydra doesn't? |
| 03:15.06 | Xyphoid | 'This item is currently unavailable in your region' lame - what's the steam thing? |
| 03:17.09 | Kraps | ~wiki jor-el |
| 03:18.58 | Wobin | http://i.imgur.com/7shie.jpg |
| 03:19.31 | Dagmar | hhehe |
| 03:20.40 | Nobgul-BNC | lol |
| 03:24.43 | Zyn | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LBtDrcIntk |
| 03:24.48 | Zyn | related |
| 03:27.48 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 03:29.26 | Nobgul-BNC | ouchie |
| 03:33.20 | Nobgul-BNC | ~wiki SASL |
| 03:38.30 | Dagmar | Software As Simple Larceny |
| 03:38.45 | kd3 | sounds about right |
| 03:39.26 | Nobgul-BNC | lol |
| 03:42.38 | Kraps | http://store.steampowered.com/sale/indieweekend |
| 03:44.10 | Kraps | http://store.steampowered.com/app/49604/ |
| 03:49.50 | Ackis | pompy: http://logitech.lithium.com/t5/Headphones-Headsets-Microphones/Crackling-Sound-and-no-output-from-mic-G930/m-p/636270/highlight/false#M6851 answer that for me pl0x |
| 03:52.01 | Dagmar | If this is a one-way change in behaviour, the thing probably broke |
| 03:53.01 | Nobgul-BNC | Ackis, rma it m8 |
| 03:54.41 | Arrowmaster | how do i disable this stupid code thing on steam |
| 03:54.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (~quassel@124-168-170-200.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 04:06.40 | Ackis | rmaing is such a pain... it was a gift so I don't have the receipt, its a headset so the S/N is a bitch to find too |
| 04:06.44 | airtonix | fuuuuuuuuu |
| 04:09.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (~quassel@124-168-170-200.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 04:12.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (~Xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 04:15.29 | pompy | Arrowmaster: steam guard? |
| 04:18.03 | Arrowmaster | yeah |
| 04:18.12 | Arrowmaster | found i had to start the client to disable it |
| 04:18.48 | Nobgul-BNC | Ackis, Is there a local retailer that sells the same headset? If so buy one switch the products and then return it tell them it is defective and you want a refund. |
| 04:19.42 | Thunder_Child | Nobgul-BNC: local is going to be more expensive |
| 04:20.16 | Arrowmaster | and not all will give refunds on opened defective products, some will only replace it |
| 04:20.59 | *** topic/#wowuidev by Cairenn -> http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ || 4.1.x ToC: 40100 || #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting || Happy Birthday nechckn! |
| 04:21.12 | pompy | Ackis: look on teh usb dongle |
| 04:21.47 | Ackis | I can hear just fine pompy, just mic sounds don't come out |
| 04:21.53 | Nobgul-BNC | Thunder_Child, but he is returning it for a refund so the cost is nill |
| 04:22.01 | pompy | i was referign to the s/n and pid |
| 04:22.02 | pompy | lol |
| 04:22.20 | pompy | just have logitech replace it, thats what i did with mine, they sent me a brand new one |
| 04:22.52 | Ackis | which headset did you have? |
| 04:22.55 | Thunder_Child | Nobgul-BNC: if you buy it local and return it online you will be paying mroe |
| 04:22.57 | Thunder_Child | more* |
| 04:23.10 | Nobgul-BNC | Thunder_Child, Buy it local and return the broken one local sir. |
| 04:23.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (~quassel@124-168-170-200.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 04:23.15 | Nobgul-BNC | Ie a swap a roo |
| 04:24.11 | Nobgul-BNC | When I worked at Radio Shack we had a customer that would "rent" his tv from us every 29 days he would return it and repurchase it. After a year he would get a new one =P |
| 04:24.33 | pompy | Ackis: http://www.logitech.com/en-us/webcam-communications/internet-headsets-phones/devices/3621 |
| 04:25.21 | Arrowmaster | Nobgul-BNC: a lot of stores dont do returns on opened items now, only exchanges |
| 04:25.25 | Nobgul-BNC | Anyway back to my server. Installin VPN |
| 04:25.44 | Nobgul-BNC | Arrowmaster, where at? I have not seen one here in New Jersey. |
| 04:25.51 | Ackis | this is mine: http://www.logitech.com/en-us/webcam-communications/internet-headsets-phones/devices/7248 |
| 04:25.53 | Nobgul-BNC | I would never buy anything fron them. |
| 04:26.53 | Nobgul-BNC | Ackis, Did you try to record soemthing using windows sound recorder then play it back? |
| 04:27.34 | pompy | Nobgul-BNC: where in jersey? lol |
| 04:27.50 | Nobgul-BNC | At the shore. |
| 04:27.56 | Nobgul-BNC | Point Plesant area |
| 04:28.04 | Ackis | yeah Nobgul-BNC, tried a few different ways |
| 04:28.16 | pompy | oh nice, im LBI |
| 04:28.38 | Nobgul-BNC | Nice. Not that far. |
| 04:29.01 | pompy | used to live in Brick |
| 04:29.13 | Nobgul-BNC | Now thats real close. |
| 04:29.21 | Nobgul-BNC | My ex-wife used to hang out there all the time. |
| 04:31.09 | *** join/#wowuidev SeanK (~SeanK@50.46.156.101) |
| 04:31.40 | pompy | Arrowmaster: but it says (not recommended) ;) |
| 04:32.04 | Arrowmaster | i dont give a fuck |
| 04:32.16 | Nobgul-BNC | >_< |
| 04:32.21 | Nobgul-BNC | such violence =P |
| 04:33.36 | pompy | http://store.steampowered.com/app/36620/ free to play |
| 04:34.02 | Corrodias | see also: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/shitty |
| 04:34.19 | Nobgul-BNC | I really feel like playing Forsaken the old flight type game with a forcefeedback joystick =P |
| 04:34.24 | Nobgul-BNC | To bad i have neither |
| 04:35.33 | pompy | Corrodias: 72/100 = shitty? ;p lol |
| 04:36.24 | Corrodias | actually, i'd call that "decent", but it's still a microtrans-driven mmorpg |
| 04:36.51 | pompy | Ackis: http://store.steampowered.com/app/45100/ really? loll |
| 04:36.52 | Nobgul-BNC | Most of the perfectworld games are shite |
| 04:37.06 | Nobgul-BNC | lol pompy |
| 04:37.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (~quassel@122-157-102.dsl.connexus.net.au) |
| 04:37.24 | pompy | Ackis bought that! |
| 04:37.33 | Nobgul-BNC | hgeheh |
| 04:37.37 | Nobgul-BNC | simhorse eh |
| 04:41.12 | Nobgul-BNC | what a boring night |
| 04:41.52 | pompy | yeah same |
| 04:42.08 | kd3 | eesh, what a pointless diff |
| 04:42.36 | Nobgul-BNC | few beers and no fun makes nobgul a dull boy |
| 04:44.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobster (~quassel@124-168-170-200.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 04:45.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Thrae (~ircuser@2001:470:7:3f7::2) |
| 04:48.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Ycarene (~Ycarene@24-116-61-193.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 04:58.12 | Ackis | pompy: that game is pro! |
| 04:59.09 | *** join/#wowuidev |Jelly| (~|Jelly|@c-24-4-154-230.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 05:04.36 | Fisker | Ackis |
| 05:06.12 | Fisker | Ackis Ackis |
| 05:07.04 | Fisker | Ackis Ackis Ackis |
| 05:07.18 | mckenziemc | Fisker Fisker Fisker Fisker |
| 05:07.24 | Fisker | hey mckenziemc |
| 05:14.19 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@adsl-74-226-64-76.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 05:19.02 | Nechckn | Yay! Thank you, Cairenn - getting older is the one thing that I cannot seem to screw up! =) |
| 05:19.13 | Cairenn | hehehe |
| 05:19.16 | Cairenn | *hug* |
| 05:20.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Sargeras (~Sargeras@cpe-98-148-228-241.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 05:21.17 | Mr_Rabies | Nechckn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdIRrmNN_CQ |
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| 05:23.51 | Trela | Mr_Rabies: That song is depressing. |
| 05:24.28 | Nechckn | Depressing perhaps, but one of my all-time favorite bands |
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| 05:27.49 | Torhal | ZOMG! |
| 05:28.03 | Torhal | Trela: Did you get your Jeep drivable yet? :D |
| 05:28.13 | Trela | Torhal: Scary as fuck. |
| 05:28.40 | Torhal | o.O |
| 05:28.58 | Torhal | Trela: You, or the Jeep? |
| 05:29.16 | Trela | Jeep. |
| 05:29.21 | Thunder_Child | both |
| 05:29.36 | Torhal | Ah |
| 05:30.24 | Fisker | Cairenn's name is karen hoho |
| 05:30.39 | Cairenn | yes, so? |
| 05:32.08 | Fisker | giggles |
| 05:33.27 | Cairenn | oooookay |
| 05:33.47 | Trela | shrugs, shares chocolate with Cairenn. |
| 05:33.56 | Cairenn | heh |
| 05:42.20 | Wobathome | anyone know of a cheap SSL certificate provider? |
| 06:05.29 | Duman | wobin: namecheap.com is pretty cheap |
| 06:05.42 | Duman | $9/yr for a single-hostname one |
| 06:06.11 | Duman | $10 if you use geotrust instead of comodo |
| 06:06.36 | Duman | $140/yr if you want a green bar |
| 06:12.46 | Kraps | http://cheezfailbooking.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/funny-facebook-fails-the-vancouver-riots-exhibit-b.jpg |
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| 06:15.32 | AcidWeb | Arena matmatching work on PTR or only wargames are available? |
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| 06:36.15 | Sargeras | hugs Cairenn |
| 06:36.54 | Cairenn | hugs Sargeras |
| 06:37.07 | Sargeras | Hey there |
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| 06:50.06 | Torhal | steals all hugs and seals them in a jar. |
| 06:50.16 | Arrowmaster | Wobin: ive heard startssl.com is cheap and good service, but theres a maintenance notice on the site currently |
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| 06:52.35 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 06:52.44 | Nobgul-BNC | Wobin, I think namecheap gives out free ssl certs |
| 06:52.48 | Nobgul-BNC | And or they used to |
| 06:53.02 | Adys | [07:05:26] <Duman> wobin: namecheap.com is pretty cheap |
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| 06:55.34 | Adys | god |
| 06:55.58 | Adys | i thought white collar would get boring or bland after s2 finale |
| 06:56.01 | Adys | but no |
| 06:57.00 | kd3 | ok, wow. didn't know canadians had it in them to riot like that |
| 06:57.16 | Nobgul-BNC | about hockey? |
| 06:57.22 | Nobgul-BNC | they kill u dead over a hockey game |
| 06:57.31 | kd3 | however, this puts a smile on my face: http://www.totalprosports.com/2011/06/16/watch-this-vancouver-rioter-take-a-flash-bang-to-the-groin-video/ |
| 06:57.32 | kd3 | ya |
| 06:57.52 | Nobgul-BNC | lol yea saw that one earlier |
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| 07:03.36 | pompy | Nobgul-BNC: the weather sucks here |
| 07:03.38 | Cairenn | kd3: most of us (Canadians) are absolutely furious about, and humiliated by, what went on there last night |
| 07:04.13 | bluspacecow | the couple making out in the middle of it was kinda romantic tho |
| 07:04.14 | bluspacecow | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP4i86pq8K8 |
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| 07:09.54 | *** join/#wowuidev [Wobin] (~quassel@124-168-170-200.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
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| 07:11.03 | bluspacecow | also |
| 07:11.05 | bluspacecow | http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy257/RPSchaefer/d42dd062.jpg?t=1299746539 |
| 07:11.11 | bluspacecow | borg kitteh ? |
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| 07:17.47 | kd3 | http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/360023-4-bit-redstone-computer-attached-to-small-scale-internet/ |
| 07:17.48 | kd3 | wtf |
| 07:18.02 | airtonix | Cairenn: new world order getting you down? |
| 07:18.14 | airtonix | you need BrandX |
| 07:18.26 | kd3 | just building computers is crazy enough... but now, multiple computers talking to each other over routers? |
| 07:19.17 | airtonix | http://cdn04.cdn.socialitelife.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/russel-brand-batman-outfit2010-07-18_00001-820x1088.jpg |
| 07:19.20 | airtonix | lulz |
| 07:19.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (~Jamash@adsl-76-248-69-241.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net) |
| 07:22.54 | Ycarene | Isn't that a quote from batman? |
| 07:23.11 | Ycarene | Oh, guess I should scroll down, huh? |
| 07:23.19 | airtonix | maybe |
| 07:23.21 | airtonix | maybe not |
| 07:23.40 | Torhal | Urk! Nipple-suit! |
| 07:23.41 | [Wobin] | Duman, Arrowmaster: ty, I went with CheapSSLs.com |
| 07:23.58 | Torhal | forces Wobin to update his FuBar AddOns. |
| 07:24.08 | [Wobin] | airtonix: haha, fatrobin |
| 07:24.18 | [Wobin] | Torhal: I have fubar addons? |
| 07:24.22 | [Wobin] | oh yeah, heyfu |
| 07:24.29 | [Wobin] | =( |
| 07:24.35 | Arrowmaster | [Wobin]: looks like the same thing offered by namecheap.com, comodo and geotrust certs |
| 07:24.38 | airtonix | http://www.reelmovienews.com/2010/07/russell-brand-gets-bat-nipples-for-arthur/ |
| 07:24.40 | [Wobin] | without a dewdrop replacement, I'd have to redo the entire addon |
| 07:24.53 | Torhal | Yup. |
| 07:25.30 | Adys | kd3: "12 bytes of rom and 12 bits of ram" |
| 07:25.34 | Adys | reminds me of my childhood! |
| 07:25.36 | Adys | snickers |
| 07:25.38 | airtonix | i tried to find some brandx imagery from micheal keaton as batman |
| 07:25.50 | airtonix | but failed |
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| 07:37.10 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 07:38.41 | Shirik | Cide: I didn't see TS in any of my tournaments today :( |
| 07:38.47 | Shirik | but tomorrow's the beginning of the real stuff |
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| 07:53.23 | bluspacecow | *sigh* having finished the "B" on the side of my minecraft tower i now found out i gotta move it down by one block because of cloud cover :( |
| 07:53.33 | Shirik | ? |
| 07:53.49 | bluspacecow | :( |
| 07:54.22 | Shirik | confused |
| 07:54.39 | airtonix | bluspacecow: derp |
| 07:54.45 | bluspacecow | :( |
| 07:54.57 | Shirik | :( |
| 07:55.08 | airtonix | :> |
| 07:56.30 | bluspacecow | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2978624/2011-06-17_19.55.16.png |
| 07:56.53 | bluspacecow | has a cloud going through the top part of the B when there are clouds |
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| 07:57.11 | bluspacecow | derp |
| 07:57.17 | bluspacecow | still uploading :( |
| 08:00.00 | Shirik | it's ok |
| 08:00.04 | Shirik | I'm on crappy internet anyway |
| 08:00.52 | bluspacecow | me too |
| 08:02.20 | bluspacecow | https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Public/2011-06-17_19.55.16.png?w=0d5f9f15 |
| 08:03.30 | Shirik | bluspacecow forbidded me :( |
| 08:03.36 | Shirik | very mean :( |
| 08:03.44 | bluspacecow | nah |
| 08:03.55 | bluspacecow | it was my fail dropbox and fail internets |
| 08:03.56 | Shirik | </3 |
| 08:04.03 | bluspacecow | was uploading a 156k file at 1.4 k/s |
| 08:04.08 | bluspacecow | :( |
| 08:04.15 | Shirik | sounds like the speed I'll download it at anyway |
| 08:05.37 | *** join/#wowuidev blas7 (~blas7@78.90.164.69) |
| 08:06.12 | airtonix | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2978624/2011-06-17_19.55.16.png |
| 08:06.28 | airtonix | that would've made a for a good mob tower |
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| 08:18.25 | [Wobin] | http://www.buzzfeed.com/gavon/republican-new-york-senator-comes-out-for-gay-marr awesome |
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| 09:01.22 | Adys | http://xkcd.com/913/ |
| 09:01.32 | Adys | I looked :( |
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| 09:19.47 | airtonix | Adys: have you used celery ? |
| 09:19.56 | airtonix | http://readthedocs.org/docs/celery |
| 09:20.00 | Adys | you mean in bed? |
| 09:20.02 | Adys | oh |
| 09:20.24 | Adys | no, but you can ask Kalroth about last time |
| 09:20.31 | airtonix | i'm trying to get my head around actually having tasks executed. |
| 09:20.31 | Kalroth | ./sky |
| 09:20.36 | Kalroth | er, ./shy |
| 09:20.47 | Kalroth | I'll execute you, airtonix |
| 09:20.54 | airtonix | umadbro? |
| 09:21.09 | Kalroth | ya |
| 09:22.16 | airtonix | if i want something to happen to a model object two weeks before a datetime stored on a datetimefield on the model object, i'd initiate it via signals or a superimposed save method? |
| 09:22.39 | Kalroth | both |
| 09:23.50 | airtonix | so fire the signal from the superimposed save method and then from the signal add the celery-task |
| 09:33.07 | Kalroth | its the final countdown |
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| 09:34.32 | bluspacecow | the PTR robbed me of my LFD queue :\ |
| 09:34.53 | bluspacecow | 'cause it played the sound of it finishing a patch |
| 09:34.56 | bluspacecow | and |
| 09:35.13 | bluspacecow | i mistook that to say my queue had popped and clicked leave que |
| 09:36.26 | Adys | Shirik: what |
| 09:36.27 | Adys | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stabbing#Commonly_used_weapons_or_objects_for_stabbing_purposes |
| 09:36.33 | Adys | [...] |
| 09:36.34 | Adys | Toothpick |
| 09:41.36 | airtonix | plastic straw |
| 09:41.50 | airtonix | paper |
| 09:42.15 | airtonix | colostomy bag |
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| 10:07.12 | karl_w_w | Objects common in accidental stabbings: Fingers |
| 10:07.14 | karl_w_w | huh? |
| 10:07.28 | karl_w_w | isnt that called a poke? |
| 10:07.45 | airtonix | yus!! another high distinction |
| 10:08.41 | airtonix | "It's easy to soar like an eagle when you live with chickens" |
| 10:11.06 | airtonix | who thinks that copyright and intellectual property are an integral component in modern digital culture? |
| 10:12.48 | karl_w_w | everyone here, I'll bet |
| 10:15.30 | airtonix | thought so |
| 10:15.56 | airtonix | my lecturer failed me on an assignment because she didn't think so |
| 10:16.08 | airtonix | "copyright is irrelevant to culture" |
| 10:16.12 | airtonix | hoho |
| 10:16.33 | airtonix | inb4 richard stalman |
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| 10:38.21 | Adys | airtonix: what? |
| 10:46.05 | Adys | airtonix: fdfmklgjdefkgldmk |
| 10:46.12 | Adys | you can use super() without arguments since 2.6 |
| 10:46.19 | Adys | i thought that was reserved to 3.x |
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| 10:59.30 | Adys | wait |
| 10:59.33 | Adys | no i dont |
| 10:59.33 | Adys | :( |
| 11:02.17 | airtonix | wut? |
| 11:02.26 | jnwhiteh | NO U |
| 11:02.33 | airtonix | broseph |
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| 11:29.17 | Adys | .. |
| 11:29.23 | Adys | theres no strftime in js? |
| 11:30.13 | Kalroth | http://code.google.com/p/strftime-js/ there you go! |
| 11:31.13 | Adys | yeah saw |
| 11:31.15 | Adys | i might use it |
| 11:32.27 | zenzio | "pure" js has a few string/date shortcomings in general, if you're used to many other languages |
| 11:32.46 | Kalroth | Adys: just do <?php echo strftime(); ?>!! |
| 11:32.55 | Adys | funny |
| 11:32.57 | Adys | its for an im client |
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| 12:07.27 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~alestane@c-66-30-17-67.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 12:07.27 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 12:09.33 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~alestane@c-66-30-17-67.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 12:09.33 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 12:09.56 | Cairenn | morning alestane |
| 12:10.04 | alestane | Good morning. |
| 12:10.11 | alestane | Hey look, a full night's sleep. |
| 12:10.15 | alestane | I've missed that. |
| 12:10.33 | Cairenn | cool |
| 12:10.33 | alestane | hugs Cairenn "g'morning" |
| 12:10.51 | Cairenn | you keep saying "good" morning ... I'm not sure I'd go that far :p |
| 12:12.10 | Maldivia | perhaps it's just wishful thinking ? |
| 12:12.13 | alestane | I can wish, right? |
| 12:12.16 | Cairenn | heh |
| 12:12.19 | alestane | http://www.gocomics.com/forbetterorforworse/2011/06/17 |
| 12:12.34 | Cairenn | :) |
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| 12:24.35 | Adys | airtonix: I rock \o/ |
| 12:24.36 | Adys | https://github.com/Adys/tercel/commits/ |
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| 12:34.01 | alestane_ | Oops. |
| 12:34.08 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 12:41.06 | jnwhiteh | Adys: is this your editor? |
| 12:41.19 | Adys | jnwhiteh: what is? |
| 12:42.14 | jnwhiteh | tercel |
| 12:42.15 | jnwhiteh | what is it? |
| 12:42.19 | Adys | IM client |
| 12:42.23 | Adys | xmpp specifically |
| 12:42.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (~Lopeppepp@141.222.30.166) |
| 12:42.38 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 12:42.39 | Adys | trying things out to make it more browser-like |
| 12:42.44 | Adys | new tab page, etc |
| 12:42.44 | jnwhiteh | oh, cool |
| 12:42.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@5ad994f9.bb.sky.com) |
| 12:42.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 12:42.57 | Adys | I need your help btw |
| 12:42.57 | jnwhiteh | perhaps I'll give it a try at some point |
| 12:43.09 | Adys | or well |
| 12:43.21 | Adys | I need the help of someone who's good with js |
| 12:43.55 | Adys | https://github.com/Adys/tercel/blob/c3c2b17f4350ca24140dabc41cd9e8fee69fa435/tercel/res/new-tab.html |
| 12:44.03 | Adys | I need to make this look decent |
| 12:45.19 | zenzio | sorry, look good how? The way it displays, or how the code looks? |
| 12:45.30 | Adys | lemme rephrase |
| 12:45.40 | Adys | I need someone to help me write a new tab page in js :P |
| 12:45.46 | Adys | I have a few designs to try out |
| 12:46.08 | *** join/#wowuidev ZorbaTHut (tocohl@maximilian.pavlovian.net) |
| 12:46.32 | Kalroth | http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/jun/17/rebecca-black-friday-video-youtube nooo, whyyy |
| 12:46.57 | jnwhiteh | cuz |
| 12:47.08 | jnwhiteh | 'ark' started charging $2.99 rental fees to watch it |
| 12:47.16 | jnwhiteh | she said 'bitch please' and slapped them with a copyright infringement notice |
| 12:47.24 | jnwhiteh | cause she's 13 years of awesmoe |
| 12:53.16 | Kalroth | why remove it from youtube then?! |
| 12:55.41 | Ycarene | Can you be reported if you make a mistake in a random? |
| 12:56.03 | jnwhiteh | Kalroth: because ark controleld it |
| 12:56.08 | jnwhiteh | they were charging peopel to view it |
| 12:56.15 | jnwhiteh | she couldn't stop that any other way |
| 12:56.21 | alestane | What, Ycarene, like standing in the fire? |
| 12:56.50 | Ycarene | Something like that. |
| 12:56.52 | zenzio | Ycarene: can you be reported? Sure. Will they do anything about it? Unlikely, unless the mistake is somehow against the game's rules |
| 12:58.08 | Ycarene | I was in a stonecore heroic, I made the mistake of not interrupting the earthshaper, got told I'd get reported, about an hour later I'm talking to a GM. |
| 12:58.43 | zenzio | sounds to me like your teammate exaggerrated (or failed to specify) what you did |
| 12:58.44 | Maldivia | hope you and the GM are having a laugh:P |
| 12:59.16 | Ycarene | He said I was griefing the group by ignoring my role and gave me a warning. |
| 12:59.28 | zenzio | O_o |
| 12:59.30 | alestane | If that's really what they reported you for, I'd hope he's just confirming that so that he can go back and slap the reporter for wasting Blizzard resources. |
| 13:00.00 | alestane | Unfortunately, not all GMs are created equal. |
| 13:00.22 | zenzio | I'd contact the GMs on that feedback e-mail, whatever it is, and tell them about this |
| 13:00.25 | zenzio | include the name of the GM |
| 13:00.44 | Ycarene | I don't even remember any of the names, I felt so bad about it, I just took it. |
| 13:01.34 | Ycarene | I figured it was a lesson to either stay out of heroics or just get better. |
| 13:01.42 | Adys | jnwhiteh |
| 13:01.45 | zenzio | I'd contact them anyway; if he really did warn you, then I guess they set a "has been warned" flag on the account |
| 13:01.53 | Adys | jnwhiteh: http://i.imgur.com/naq3i.png |
| 13:01.56 | Adys | to give you the basic idea |
| 13:02.48 | Ycarene | I don't want to waste anyones time, I figure it couldn't have put me too high on the penalty volcano. |
| 13:02.55 | alestane | Making mistakes playing the game is not an actionable offense as far as I know. |
| 13:02.55 | jnwhiteh | interesting |
| 13:03.33 | zenzio | Ycarene: what alestane; which is why I'd use the GM feedback e-mail to tell them about it |
| 13:03.44 | zenzio | they'll have logs about which GM spoke to you I assume |
| 13:04.03 | Ycarene | I think I'm just going to ignore it, what's the worst that could happen? |
| 13:04.14 | zenzio | the GM would get away with it |
| 13:04.36 | *** join/#wowuidev robokitty (~roboe@50A2E64B.flatrate.dk) |
| 13:05.26 | Lopeppeppy | And then do it again and again to other people. |
| 13:05.32 | Lopeppeppy | GM feedback for the win. |
| 13:05.40 | zenzio | exactly |
| 13:05.43 | Adys | http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2011/06/supporting-relcanonical-http-headers.html |
| 13:06.04 | Ycarene | My word against his I think. |
| 13:06.13 | Ycarene | Sounds like more trouble than its worth. |
| 13:06.45 | Ycarene | And besides, maybe he has a point. |
| 13:06.58 | zenzio | Ycarene: no, he doesn't |
| 13:07.17 | zenzio | it's your call, but I think it'd be a mistake not to send feedback about this |
| 13:08.12 | Lopeppeppy | No he doesn't have a point. *hug* |
| 13:09.45 | alestane | Really, that's like the posters on the forums telling people that if they can't do 6k DPS, they should quit the game and stop ruining it for everyone else. |
| 13:09.47 | Ycarene | I need to have the situational awareness of a tank. |
| 13:10.17 | zenzio | Ycarene: you can be situationally aware as a champion, and still make mistakes |
| 13:11.00 | zenzio | I've been tanking since 2006, and if your mistake was actionable, I could have had dozens of DPSers suspended |
| 13:11.28 | Ycarene | Ugh, the issue isn't even all on me, the first time, I had it sapped and someone broke it, and he transformed before I could get to him. The second time the tank went charging before we could declare targets. |
| 13:12.00 | alestane | So, yeah. Don't let that GM go around making more people feel like you feel right now. |
| 13:12.36 | Kraps | holy craps at the new harry potter trailer |
| 13:21.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (~xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 13:45.55 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 13:52.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Joschasa (~Joschasa@p5796B625.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:55.23 | *** join/#wowuidev pantsninja (~Syrae@c-69-181-66-52.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 14:05.21 | airtonix | I can tell you are dutch. You are making english sentences with dutch grammar. You tried to write "maar het is tenminste native" like "but it's at least native" when you should've written "but at least it's native"! |
| 14:05.27 | airtonix | says the guys with the name |
| 14:05.34 | airtonix | MarcusKlaasDeVries Collapse |
| 14:05.41 | airtonix | gorramit html |
| 14:05.44 | Kraps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8WiyX21A1c |
| 14:08.27 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 14:36.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (~Lunessa@WoWUIDev/Lunessa) |
| 14:36.26 | Lunessa | Station |
| 14:39.10 | Kraps | blanket |
| 14:40.43 | zenzio | "Japan's parliament enacted legislation Friday criminalizing the creation or distribution of computer viruses to crack down on the growing problem of cybercrimes, but critics say the move could infringe on the constitutionally guaranteed privacy of communications" |
| 14:44.34 | Lopeppeppy | Morning, Lunessa-dear. |
| 14:45.33 | Kraps | green lantern got mucho bad reviews |
| 14:46.15 | Monolit | hmmmm is it possible to set multiple objects to replace in Notepad++or other editors? I have a situation where I need to replace lots of numeric values like [6] -> [7], [7] -> [8]... and so on. How can I do that? |
| 14:46.36 | Xinhuan | how does criminalizing creation/distro of computer viruses infringe on piracy of comms? |
| 14:46.52 | Xinhuan | Monolit, use regular expressions |
| 14:47.04 | Xinhuan | the search search/replace supports it |
| 14:47.38 | Xinhuan | although i dont' think you can replace it with variable text |
| 14:48.26 | Xinhuan | your best bet it probably to write a script/program |
| 14:49.19 | Lunessa | Xinhuan: Saying "You can speak any words except these" is always an infringement on your right to free expression. |
| 14:49.34 | Monolit | Xinhuan: yeah that's probably the easiest way |
| 14:49.37 | zenzio | Monolit: if you were only replacing to one single value, you could use regexp in Notepad++, but if you want different outputs then you'd probably need a plugin (if one exists) |
| 14:50.06 | Lunessa | They should focus on criminalizing the distribution or using them for malicious purposes, but not the writing of code. |
| 14:51.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (~Kalroth@3e6be73f.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 14:51.28 | Xinhuan | Lunessa, your argument would imply that distributing anything that has restrictions placed on it would infringe on the right to free expression |
| 14:51.29 | Monolit | zenzio: actually I forgot about that one, it might work |
| 14:51.43 | Monolit | ctrl+R in notepad++ iirc |
| 14:52.08 | Xinhuan | ctrl+R opens a run window iirc in notepad++ |
| 14:52.13 | Xinhuan | replace is ctrl+h |
| 14:52.36 | Monolit | thats regular replace |
| 14:52.37 | airtonix | lol? |
| 14:52.41 | Lunessa | No, I'm arguing that telling people "you're not allowed to write a virus" is the same thing as saying "you're not allowed to write a pamphlet call the government evil." |
| 14:52.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (~Jamash@adsl-75-60-174-129.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net) |
| 14:53.05 | Lopeppeppy | You are allowed to write whatever code you damn well please. You just can't *distribute* it. |
| 14:53.11 | Lunessa | And that if they want to do something about them, focus making laws on the use of them. |
| 14:53.22 | Lopeppeppy | Freedom of speech/expression/coding, NOT freedom of spreading it all around and causing havoc. |
| 14:53.44 | airtonix | `/; |
| 14:54.15 | airtonix | don't let your irc client see that |
| 14:54.38 | Lopeppeppy | Too late, she was watching. |
| 14:55.05 | Kraps | i heard this on the radio http://kotaku.com/5812884/kid-gets-school-ban-on-pokemon-overturned/gallery/1 |
| 14:55.12 | airtonix | ok Ms Srs |
| 14:58.06 | Lopeppeppy | puts a big blue bow on top of her head. |
| 14:59.39 | Xinhuan | did you mean a bowtie |
| 14:59.50 | zenzio | placing a bowtie on your head seems weird |
| 15:01.34 | Lunessa | I wear a bow tie now, bow ties are cool. |
| 15:03.08 | Xinhuan | so Kraps |
| 15:03.15 | zenzio | "That is still one of the cool things about being able to work with OpenGL extensions on there. As soon as we can present a compelling case to these guys, which is basically, look, this $200 console is playing smoother than your $200 system on here, you need to fix this and here's one of the steps you can do there, and they got it done. That's still a good thing." |
| 15:03.18 | Xinhuan | http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2011/06/16/cte_lucas_letter.jpg |
| 15:03.22 | Xinhuan | http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2011/06/16/cte_lucas_letter_2.jpg |
| 15:03.39 | Kraps | yeah |
| 15:03.58 | Xinhuan | zenzio what are you mumbling about |
| 15:04.19 | zenzio | Xinhuan: extract from a John Carmack interview: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-06-16-john-carmack-the-future-now-interview |
| 15:04.25 | Lopeppeppy | No, a bow! |
| 15:06.21 | Lopeppeppy | Like Little Miss Tidy, only one bow, right at the top and back. http://images.wikia.com/mrmen/images/4/41/Tidy.jpg |
| 15:06.53 | Xinhuan | interesting interview |
| 15:07.03 | Lopeppeppy | Ah, more like Alice in Wonderland! So sweet and innocent. http://images.wikia.com/aliceinwonderland/images/a/a8/Alice.jpg |
| 15:08.28 | Wobin | hahah "If someone needs a deck, I hear you confiscated a lot" |
| 15:13.21 | Lunessa | *cough* innocent *cough* |
| 15:14.40 | Lopeppeppy | Ya. |
| 15:14.55 | Lopeppeppy | I'm not sitting here crowing because someone told me my ex is having a bad day. Nope. Innnnnnnnnnocent! |
| 15:14.58 | airtonix | so |
| 15:15.12 | airtonix | code geass, crap anime or crapper anime? |
| 15:16.32 | Lopeppeppy | Go watch Scrooged. Bypass the animation, go for the toaster upside the head. |
| 15:17.00 | airtonix | umadsis? |
| 15:17.19 | airtonix | cwutidid? |
| 15:17.42 | airtonix | :< |
| 15:17.55 | airtonix | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:18.10 | cog|work | FUN FUN FUN FUN |
| 15:18.20 | airtonix | you cog |
| 15:18.23 | cog|work | gets down |
| 15:18.34 | airtonix | making the blade mob tower server? |
| 15:18.54 | airtonix | from Pr Mob Tower Researcher man? |
| 15:19.16 | airtonix | but really, to call it a tower is misguided |
| 15:19.22 | Lopeppeppy | Awww, you remembered I'm a girl! |
| 15:19.33 | cog|work | i haven't had time to do anything in MC for a couple weeks... |
| 15:19.34 | airtonix | sorry, new topic |
| 15:25.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Robsato (~Robsato@wetering.xs4all.nl) |
| 15:27.48 | Fisker | cog|work |
| 15:27.56 | airtonix | FiskerPlace |
| 15:28.02 | Fisker | BLIZZ Y U NO RESTRICT CALENDAR INVITES TO WHAT IS ACTUALLY VIEWABLE BY THE NORMAL ADDON? |
| 15:28.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal|work (~torhal_wo@173-14-207-161-huntsville.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 15:28.20 | Fisker | i lol'd when goldsellers put goldspam invites in 2017 |
| 15:28.46 | airtonix | optimistic |
| 15:30.56 | Xinhuan | "Under Japan's new law, people who create or distribute a computer virus with no justifiable reason face prison terms up to three years or fines up to 500,000 yen (S$7,690). |
| 15:30.56 | Xinhuan | "Those who deliberately store a computer virus face up to two years in prison or fines up to 300,000 yen" |
| 15:31.18 | sylvanaar_work | 300,000 yen? thats it? |
| 15:31.45 | sylvanaar_work | I was thinking more like 1 Yard of yen |
| 15:32.40 | sylvanaar_work | http://www.forexpeacearmy.com/forex-forum/traders-glossary/2910-yard.html |
| 15:35.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Yoshimo (~Miranda@p549998D5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:37.07 | Fisker | Xinhuan |
| 15:37.26 | Fisker | When you quarantine a virus you're violating the law the |
| 15:37.27 | Fisker | then |
| 15:37.35 | Fisker | i like where this is going |
| 15:38.12 | *** join/#wowuidev SeanK1 (~SeanK@50.46.156.101) |
| 15:40.20 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 15:41.01 | Xinhuan | hahaha |
| 15:41.07 | Xinhuan | good one Fisker |
| 15:41.43 | Fisker | also sucks to be a producer of AV software in japan |
| 15:42.16 | airtonix | godzilla willing |
| 15:43.00 | Lopeppeppy | He's pregnant!!!! |
| 15:43.11 | airtonix | you're what? |
| 15:43.36 | Lunessa | Worth a read: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2956383 |
| 15:44.49 | airtonix | Balance is a art |
| 15:44.51 | pompy | well u can see if any of ur accounts were exposed - http://lulzsecurity.com/releases/62000_random_logins.txt |
| 15:45.22 | nicoli_s | yay none of mine |
| 15:45.30 | Ackis | exposes himself |
| 15:47.00 | *** join/#wowuidev SeanK1 (~SeanK@50.46.156.101) |
| 15:47.11 | Thunder_Child | facebook should be the first target for those |
| 15:48.16 | Thunder_Child | except for the .gov ones, those have different targets |
| 15:48.58 | *** part/#wowuidev BWMerlin (~BW~Merlin@CPE-60-226-105-114.qld.bigpond.net.au) |
| 15:50.01 | Fisker | YEEEEEEEEEEEES |
| 15:50.03 | Fisker | sega got hacked |
| 15:50.20 | airtonix | haha |
| 15:50.39 | Fisker | i didn't even know i had a "sega pass" |
| 15:50.44 | Fisker | shrugs |
| 15:51.09 | Lopeppeppy | Leeloo Dallas multipass |
| 15:52.27 | foxlit | Hm, wow stopped asking for authenticator codes |
| 15:54.00 | Xinhuan | hahaha |
| 15:54.07 | *** join/#wowuidev SeanK1 (~SeanK@50.46.156.101) |
| 15:54.10 | Xinhuan | their 62000 email addresses |
| 15:54.15 | Xinhuan | contains |
| 15:54.18 | Xinhuan | "xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx | xxxxxxxxxxxx" |
| 15:54.21 | Xinhuan | in one of those lines |
| 15:54.48 | Fisker | old foxlit |
| 15:54.58 | Fisker | they changed the system to work kind of like Steam Guard |
| 15:55.06 | Fisker | or Rift Coinlock if you're familiar with that |
| 15:55.12 | *** join/#wowuidev SeanK1 (~SeanK@50.46.156.101) |
| 15:55.31 | foxlit | did they announce it in any amount of detail? |
| 15:55.42 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 15:55.44 | Xinhuan | yes they did |
| 15:56.07 | Xinhuan | http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2674529777?page=1#1 |
| 15:56.29 | Xinhuan | well not to great detail, but you said "any amount of detail" |
| 15:56.54 | Xinhuan | now obviously, i'm not happy with this change and hope it will be opt-in or opt-out-able |
| 15:57.32 | alestane | You would prefer to be demanded of your code every single time you log in? |
| 15:57.35 | Ackis | why are you not happy with this change? |
| 15:57.49 | foxlit | imagine shared computers with friends and family |
| 15:57.50 | Xinhuan | it does not make sense for certain categories of users |
| 15:58.01 | foxlit | especially those with proverbial younger brothers. |
| 15:58.02 | Xinhuan | lets say you frequent your friend's place and play from there |
| 15:58.07 | alestane | Shared computers are a potential concern. |
| 15:58.13 | Xinhuan | but you do NOT know the security status of your friend's computer |
| 15:58.23 | Xinhuan | nor his habits/tendency of getting a keylogger |
| 15:58.34 | Xinhuan | or a netcafe you frequently visit |
| 15:58.46 | cog|work | alestane: i have to admit it was quite jarring to NOT need it the first time |
| 15:58.51 | Fisker | hey cog|work |
| 15:59.01 | cog|work | i had miki change her password on battle.net in case she was being hacked last night :\ |
| 15:59.08 | alestane | Well, if the keylogger then attempts to use your password, the fact that they are logging in from a different location should cause the system to demand a code. |
| 15:59.08 | cog|work | (who reads the login messages anyway?) |
| 15:59.11 | Xinhuan | these 2 cases alone i've presented is valid reasons |
| 15:59.26 | Xinhuan | for requiring a auth code every time |
| 15:59.31 | Fisker | you shouldn't share your account information |
| 15:59.32 | Fisker | bam |
| 15:59.36 | Fisker | problem solved |
| 15:59.39 | *** join/#wowuidev SeanK1 (~SeanK@50.46.156.101) |
| 15:59.44 | Xinhuan | i didn't say they are shared |
| 15:59.58 | Xinhuan | i said a person could frequently play at a friend's house |
| 16:00.01 | Fisker | yes |
| 16:00.19 | alestane | I won't say that it would not be advisable to make the system opt-out, but it doesn't sound like a deal-breaker. |
| 16:00.38 | foxlit | is that a triple negative? |
| 16:00.48 | Xinhuan | its enough of a dealbreaker if you've lost any account before via logging in at a computer you do not own |
| 16:00.53 | foxlit | or the fabled quadruple negative? |
| 16:02.08 | Xinhuan | and of course, blizzard doesn't say whether this is opt-out-able.. probably because it can't |
| 16:02.35 | Fisker | For all we know they may actually require authenticator logins from places with multiple logins |
| 16:02.54 | foxlit | I have a different question: what's to stop malware from logging into wow servers directly? |
| 16:02.57 | Fisker | I would think they would've thought of that already |
| 16:03.27 | Fisker | it probably looks at more than your IP |
| 16:03.39 | Fisker | though they could theoretically run the game through the same computer as well |
| 16:03.40 | Xinhuan | oh the twitter post by blizzard already stated that |
| 16:03.57 | Fisker | that it looks on more than your IP? |
| 16:04.02 | Xinhuan | http://twitter.com/#!/BlizzardCS/statuses/81493177147727872 |
| 16:04.03 | Xinhuan | correct |
| 16:04.18 | Fisker | i'm doing some testing right now |
| 16:04.23 | Fisker | if only i had 2 accounts |
| 16:04.26 | Fisker | that would be perfect |
| 16:04.33 | foxlit | more likely, trusted key storage somewhere |
| 16:04.41 | foxlit | but the question is, where? |
| 16:04.55 | Fisker | imma run wow over rdp |
| 16:04.56 | Fisker | bam |
| 16:05.12 | alestane | I'd also hope that if it's not quite confident that the login is trusted, it would play it safe and ask for authentication. |
| 16:05.35 | airtonix | Fisker: enjoy your low framerate retard |
| 16:05.36 | Xinhuan | "At this time, we don't have an opt out option available, nor currently planned." |
| 16:05.41 | Fisker | well |
| 16:05.43 | Xinhuan | damn, that tweeted that a few hours ago |
| 16:05.44 | Fisker | IP 100% confirmed |
| 16:05.49 | Fisker | asked for authenticator despite same IP |
| 16:06.01 | foxlit | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Platform_Module and stuff |
| 16:06.05 | Xinhuan | "You are under impression that IP is the only thing taken into account. >^.~< It is much, much more specific than that!" |
| 16:06.13 | Xinhuan | i wonder what, heh |
| 16:06.23 | Fisker | already trusts my home computer though :( |
| 16:06.26 | airtonix | your windows wallet |
| 16:06.31 | Xinhuan | and i think this is only for wow logins |
| 16:06.33 | Fisker | haha |
| 16:06.37 | Fisker | also trusts my second computer |
| 16:06.41 | Xinhuan | and all other battle.net logins will still continue to ask |
| 16:06.46 | Xinhuan | for the code |
| 16:06.54 | Fisker | that's actually kind of stupid |
| 16:07.00 | Fisker | WoW is the only game where the security actually matters |
| 16:07.15 | airtonix | it is? |
| 16:07.16 | Fisker | your SC2 account being compromised = fuck that |
| 16:07.27 | Fisker | Diablo 3 compromise could be bad, but that isn't out yet |
| 16:07.34 | Xinhuan | "Will www.battle.net, www.worldofwarcraft.com and other affiliated sites still regularly ask for the Authenticator?" |
| 16:07.45 | Xinhuan | "Yes, Battle.net related sites will continue to ask for your authenticator each time you log in." |
| 16:07.51 | foxlit | Xinhuan: I'm imagining a "Yes" |
| 16:08.10 | Lopeppeppy | I'm imagining a hot fudge sundae. |
| 16:08.10 | airtonix | foxlit meant, I'm dreaming a "Yes" |
| 16:08.12 | Xinhuan | "if I get a virus/trojan, what's to stop them from using my connection as a proxy to bypass the auth?" |
| 16:08.24 | Xinhuan | "The system checks for other things as well. If someone is able to pull that off, you have bigger things to worry about. ;)" |
| 16:08.32 | Fisker | actually now that i think about it |
| 16:08.38 | Fisker | the system also prevents authenticator keyloggers |
| 16:08.41 | airtonix | like keyboard replay? |
| 16:08.44 | Fisker | they can't keylog what isn't there |
| 16:08.45 | Fisker | BAM |
| 16:09.04 | airtonix | how did you bam? |
| 16:10.43 | Kraps | airtonix: like so http://pattisoriginals.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/bambam.gif |
| 16:11.52 | foxlit | Then my best guess is still storing something in the TPM. |
| 16:15.20 | Fisker | airtonix why do you think my framerate is low airtonix ? |
| 16:16.00 | Fisker | anyway i actually like how it can increase security against authenticator keyloggers |
| 16:17.07 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 16:17.51 | Fisker | game is slow to load though :( |
| 16:18.07 | Fisker | probably shouldn't be running ultra on Intel's IGP over RDP |
| 16:19.14 | Fisker | 10 fps on low in 1920x1200 :P |
| 16:19.16 | Fisker | in the middle of orgrimmar |
| 16:19.43 | Fisker | decent to me airtonix |
| 16:24.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano_ (~elkano@pool012.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 16:24.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano_ (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 16:33.10 | Lunessa | http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2674529777#1 - saw this last night. |
| 16:36.14 | airtonix | Fisker: umadbro? |
| 16:37.03 | |Jelly| | Fisker is always mad. |
| 16:38.04 | airtonix | batshit insane |
| 16:38.26 | Lopeppeppy | Well, yes, mad like the Mad Hatter. Too much mercury, I think. |
| 16:38.31 | cog|work | Deepsea sagefish drop rate, i am disappoint |
| 16:38.33 | Lopeppeppy | Or was it arsenic? I don't remember. |
| 16:38.59 | airtonix | problem officer? |
| 16:40.17 | Fisker | why would i be mad airtonix ? |
| 16:40.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Bluspacecow (ca312226@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.49.34.38) |
| 16:40.45 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 16:40.55 | Xinhuan | harry potter deathly hallows part 2 trailer is out! yay |
| 16:41.27 | Bluspacecow | hai2u xinny |
| 16:41.34 | *** join/#wowuidev daev` (~bleh@184.17.240.5) |
| 16:43.01 | airtonix | wow |
| 16:43.04 | airtonix | just wow |
| 16:43.18 | airtonix | fucking going to FLAME our voip company |
| 16:43.29 | Nobgul-BNC | what where why |
| 16:43.31 | airtonix | oh gawd |
| 16:43.38 | airtonix | monday is going to be awesomesauce |
| 16:43.46 | Bluspacecow | fisker |
| 16:43.51 | Bluspacecow | 's going to be nekkid? |
| 16:44.01 | Bluspacecow | and making a statue of himself ? |
| 16:44.31 | airtonix | no wonder they don't have a web issue ticket system for their customers |
| 16:44.41 | Bluspacecow | who ? |
| 16:44.57 | airtonix | "bill why are all these bug tickets appearing on our issue tracker? turn it off now" |
| 16:45.12 | airtonix | "it's making the product look bad" |
| 16:46.45 | Fisker | hey Bluspacecow |
| 16:47.19 | *** join/#wowuidev PProvost (~PProvost@71-33-193-18.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 16:47.19 | *** join/#wowuidev PProvost (~PProvost@WoWUIDev/WAU/Admin/Pprovost) |
| 16:47.35 | Bluspacecow | hau2u |
| 16:49.30 | Fisker | so Bluspacecow |
| 16:49.38 | Fisker | Authenticator QQ on the US forums? |
| 16:51.42 | Bluspacecow | yarr |
| 16:51.49 | Bluspacecow | i lolzed @ it |
| 16:51.59 | Fisker | i was actualy kinda split in the beginning |
| 16:52.05 | Fisker | then it just hit me |
| 16:52.08 | Fisker | like DAYAM |
| 16:52.17 | Bluspacecow | your huge down there ? |
| 16:52.17 | Fisker | it mitigates authenticator keylogging |
| 16:52.36 | Bluspacecow | IMHO |
| 16:52.47 | Maldivia | reading that thread... it amazes me people are so willing to show their ignorance |
| 16:52.49 | Fisker | when i found out that it can help prevent authenticator keylogging i jizzed my pants |
| 16:52.51 | Bluspacecow | they should have random ninja in game authenticator prompts |
| 16:53.15 | Bluspacecow | be like 2% downing a boss when "please enter 6 digit authenticator code" |
| 16:53.27 | Bluspacecow | or in other words |
| 16:53.28 | Fisker | sounds like a great idea |
| 16:53.39 | Bluspacecow | please insert 25 cents for teh next 8 hrs of game play |
| 16:54.23 | Fisker | LOL |
| 16:54.25 | Maldivia | Bluspacecow: also "please wait 30 sec for your next valid authenticator id" in case you messed up :P |
| 16:54.30 | Fisker | i just read the news Bluspacecow |
| 16:55.31 | Fisker | and the word had 2 meanings |
| 16:55.43 | Fisker | because 1. it was describing someone ilegally entering someones property |
| 16:55.53 | Fisker | and it was 2. describing someone having sex with horses |
| 16:55.54 | Fisker | HOHO |
| 16:59.29 | Bluspacecow | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH2-TGUlwu4 |
| 17:01.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Shadowed_ (~Shadowed@li157-188.members.linode.com) |
| 17:01.30 | Fisker | FUKKEN YES Bluspacecow |
| 17:02.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Shadowed_ (~Shadowed@li157-188.members.linode.com) |
| 17:02.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (~Srosh@d070188.adsl.hansenet.de) |
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| 17:03.00 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shadowed_] by ChanServ |
| 17:04.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (~Jamash@adsl-75-60-174-129.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:07.58 | Fisker | no no no no no no no no |
| 17:08.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Yoshimo (~Miranda@p549998D5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 17:08.45 | Jamash | Fisker: Are you reading for the part of XT-002? |
| 17:08.53 | Fisker | nah Jamash |
| 17:09.09 | Fisker | i wouldn't get a part if i didn't caps'ed a few of those no's |
| 17:09.13 | Fisker | also needs more no's |
| 17:09.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Schnaks (~Schnaks@217.88.163.15) |
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| 17:16.06 | *** join/#wowuidev durcyn (~durcyn@WoWUIDev/Durcyn) |
| 17:17.38 | Jamash | I need more bandwidths |
| 17:17.59 | Jamash | google should run a 1Gb/s fiber line to my house |
| 17:18.06 | airtonix | need more explains |
| 17:18.25 | airtonix | EXPOKLAIN FISKER~! |
| 17:18.33 | Jamash | you can't explain fisker |
| 17:18.47 | airtonix | you can in russia with polish people |
| 17:19.23 | Jamash | in soviet russia, polish people do things forwards? |
| 17:20.04 | Lopeppeppy | Nevar. |
| 17:20.19 | Jamash | in soviet russia, joke explains you? |
| 17:23.18 | Kraps | hey Ackis |
| 17:25.26 | Fisker | explain what airtonix ? |
| 17:25.36 | Jamash | lunar tides |
| 17:25.55 | airtonix | Fisker: authenticator |
| 17:26.27 | Lunessa | In corporate america, account services you. |
| 17:26.39 | Fisker | hey airtonix |
| 17:27.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@adsl-74-226-125-48.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 17:27.05 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 17:27.07 | Fisker | It's a device that creates a group of alphanumeric characters that you must enter in order to login to certain services |
| 17:27.13 | airtonix | you are now authenticated |
| 17:27.20 | airtonix | oh wait |
| 17:27.25 | airtonix | enter 6 digit code |
| 17:27.29 | Jamash | 774880 |
| 17:27.33 | airtonix | and again |
| 17:27.40 | Jamash | nah |
| 17:27.46 | airtonix | kk |
| 17:27.48 | Jamash | pressing one button is hard work |
| 17:27.59 | airtonix | "your account has been deleted" |
| 17:28.05 | Jamash | 123456 |
| 17:28.14 | Fisker | airtonix |
| 17:28.41 | Fisker | in AD&D if you roll more than one die and the die hits another die (altering the outcome) what rules do then apply? |
| 17:28.45 | Fisker | EXPLAIN |
| 17:28.56 | Seerah | Jamash: that sounds like the password an idiot would have on his luggage |
| 17:29.05 | airtonix | Fisker: that's easy |
| 17:29.22 | airtonix | Fisker: the same rules that allow rdp to strengthen your authenticators security |
| 17:29.38 | Fisker | no airtonix |
| 17:29.42 | Fisker | u jelly over my RDP service? |
| 17:29.48 | Jamash | Fisker: you add both dice together |
| 17:29.49 | Seerah | s/password/combination |
| 17:30.13 | airtonix | remote dice protector? |
| 17:30.26 | Jamash | blizz should provide a desktop authenticator app imo |
| 17:30.27 | Fisker | remote desktop protocol |
| 17:30.38 | Jamash | even better, integrate it into the client |
| 17:30.45 | Fisker | disagreed Jamash |
| 17:30.46 | airtonix | lol |
| 17:30.59 | airtonix | using VB! |
| 17:31.01 | Lunessa | Even better... for my subscription fee, Blizzard just provide hookers and blow. |
| 17:31.18 | Lunessa | reductio ad absurdam |
| 17:31.22 | Kraps | all of these, TL;DR http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=22957443&postcount=40 |
| 17:31.31 | Jamash | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Gd87JmkAkE |
| 17:31.32 | airtonix | then why you link ? |
| 17:32.29 | Fisker | i stopped reading at the first letter Jamash |
| 17:32.30 | Kraps | i can tell its a good discussion :p |
| 17:32.41 | Jamash | It's deeply ironic that Sony wants to reverse Sony Corp. of America v. Universal City Studios, Inc. |
| 17:33.03 | Jamash | "oh hey that supreme court case we won, can we get backsies kthx" |
| 17:38.26 | airtonix | why is it ironman? |
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| 17:51.42 | Dagmar | I was under the impression that the only thing Sony wanted is to get paid for music. |
| 17:51.57 | Dagmar | ALl music, listened to by anyone, anywhere, no matter who the rights' holder is. |
| 17:54.04 | *** join/#wowuidev yssaril (~yssaril@99-57-32-25.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:56.00 | Dagmar | Statements like "It's illegal for the game to broadcast music. Even if it's deleted afterwards." make me want to kill |
| 18:01.13 | Dagmar | makes a note to jump up and down on that guy later |
| 18:02.06 | bluspacecow | oh how romantic |
| 18:03.00 | Dagmar | To cave in to the demands of Sony when you're a tiny-assed little studio is one thing |
| 18:03.10 | Dagmar | To make those kinds of statements to the public about it later is unacceptable |
| 18:03.40 | Jamash | he gave up his soul in the settlement |
| 18:03.42 | Dagmar | If people keep thinking like that eventually it WILL become illegal to listen to music without paying the RIAA |
| 18:04.05 | haste | Fisker: http://images.gammatester.com/pics/a651739684ef06609f1e87e6dc8f86ff.png fuck me :( |
| 18:04.10 | Dagmar | THat right there would be a crime against mankind's soul |
| 18:07.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash1 (~Jamash@adsl-75-60-174-129.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:30.36 | Kraps | Dagmar: sonys lawyer probably spoke a 6 paragraph essay at him, and thats what he got out of it |
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| 18:46.14 | Dagmar | Actually, you'd be astonished at some of the shit these people spew |
| 18:47.51 | Dagmar | Ther'e a little restaurant here that got hassled by music lawyers for not paying royalties on the overhead speaker system |
| 18:48.17 | *** join/#wowuidev wereHamster (~tomc@unaffiliated/werehamster) |
| 18:49.14 | Dagmar | THe owners were from Ecuador, and they were playing some tapes from home. Basically not-quite mariachi music but sounded close enough to mexican for redneck ears |
| 18:49.28 | Dagmar | Lawyer-boy demanded they sign up to pay royalties |
| 18:49.54 | Shirik | ~weather KLAS |
| 18:50.18 | Shirik | so nice :D |
| 18:50.42 | Dagmar | When it was pointed out that none of the music being played was signed to their organization in any way and therefore they owed no royalties, he said, and I quote, "I don't care. We'll take you to court and cost you a fortune in legal fees just because we can." |
| 18:51.14 | Dagmar | It's not an isolated case. |
| 18:51.24 | Arrowmaster | no its not |
| 18:51.41 | Lopeppeppy | asshattery is never isolated, sadly |
| 18:51.42 | Dagmar | I *begged* the guy to let me beat the crap out of the music rep |
| 18:51.48 | Arrowmaster | there are companies that collect royalties for musicians they dont represent |
| 18:52.25 | Arrowmaster | like the cd-r 'tax' |
| 18:52.44 | bluspacecow | *tacklehugs the Peppy* |
| 18:52.46 | bluspacecow | eh oh ! |
| 18:53.32 | Lopeppeppy | Heya, bluspacecow. Whatcha got in your mouth, talkin' funny? |
| 18:54.31 | Shirik | hugs Lopeppeppy |
| 18:55.27 | Cide | did you disqualify ts yet Shirik |
| 18:55.38 | Shirik | he wasn't in any of my tournaments :( |
| 18:55.41 | Shirik | was he there yesterday? |
| 18:55.50 | Cide | I would imagine so |
| 18:55.54 | Shirik | I didn't get a chance to look at the other tournaments |
| 18:56.00 | Shirik | is he competing in the main event? |
| 18:56.06 | Shirik | because that starts today (started) |
| 18:57.10 | Cide | ask him not me! |
| 18:57.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (~Daniel@c-98-225-45-244.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 18:57.46 | Shirik | well I'm about to go take a shower and check out the standings downstairs |
| 18:57.49 | Shirik | I don't start until 3 today |
| 18:58.11 | Lopeppeppy | I... missed... something. *giggle snark* |
| 18:58.26 | Shirik | o.o? |
| 18:58.32 | Lopeppeppy | huggles Shirik. He's cute! |
| 18:59.36 | bluspacecow | i r tellytubby peppy :) |
| 18:59.57 | Lopeppeppy | What color, bluspacecow? *innocent* |
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| 19:05.21 | Torhal|work | rubber-cements bluspacecow to a ceiling fan. |
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| 19:09.39 | Ackis | omg http://beermometer.com/ Cairenn|afk |
| 19:09.44 | Ackis | that's the most Canadian app in the world |
| 19:10.29 | airtonix | or is it? |
| 19:11.38 | Shirik | it lacks bacon |
| 19:12.39 | Lopeppeppy | and hockey |
| 19:12.41 | Ackis | Two deer walk out of a gay bar. One turns and says to the other, "I can't believe I just blew thirty bucks in there." |
| 19:15.48 | jnwhiteh | Ackis: win |
| 19:17.27 | Adys | Ackis: oh deer. |
| 19:17.42 | Adys | (Well that's me for the night!) |
| 19:17.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (~Daniel@c-98-225-45-244.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 19:18.36 | airtonix | ujelly? |
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| 19:19.05 | cog|away | ima go home early yay |
| 19:19.16 | airtonix | you hate your work? |
| 19:19.43 | Adys | http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/06/microsoft-no-way-to-support-webgl-and-meet-our-security-needs.ars |
| 19:19.48 | Adys | fucking idiots. |
| 19:20.23 | airtonix | inb4 webx11 |
| 19:20.33 | Adys | as if webgl exposes more sensitive crap than flash |
| 19:21.09 | Arrowmaster | was webgl supposed to replace flash? |
| 19:21.24 | Adys | no? |
| 19:21.27 | tlund | Adys: no it does not, however, if you have flash installed and you surf random sites on the intenret, YOU are the fucking idiot, actually. :) |
| 19:21.43 | Adys | tlund: thats moot |
| 19:21.55 | Yoshimo | is there an addon that checks wether you have all darkmoon cards of one set so you can combine them? |
| 19:21.59 | Adys | MS: "no way to bring webgl to ie securely!" |
| 19:22.05 | tlund | microsoft are not fucking idiots here, they are correct. |
| 19:22.08 | Adys | neither is there a way to make flash secure |
| 19:22.13 | Adys | but they still ship it |
| 19:22.21 | Adys | it doesnt matter if they are correct |
| 19:22.30 | tlund | microsoft doesnt ship flash. |
| 19:22.31 | Adys | that should NOT be a blockstopper for webgl |
| 19:22.46 | Xinhuan | Yoshimo: its called "right click on it" :) |
| 19:22.50 | Adys | they ship flash support (through plugins) |
| 19:22.54 | Arrowmaster | i actually agree with them, the idea of webgl is flawed |
| 19:22.56 | Xinhuan | it will tell you "Missing 5 of Spades" :P |
| 19:22.57 | Adys | which is the same thing |
| 19:23.16 | Adys | webgl in essence can work exactly the same way |
| 19:23.23 | tlund | Adys: again, no, they do not. |
| 19:23.27 | Adys | even be hidden behind a configuration flag or whatever |
| 19:23.29 | Adys | yes, they do. |
| 19:23.42 | tlund | microsoft does not, in any way, ship flash. |
| 19:23.47 | Adys | [20:22:46] <Adys> they ship flash support (through plugins) |
| 19:24.31 | Adys | the level of freedom given to plugins is *exactly the same thing* |
| 19:24.54 | Arrowmaster | a user must install the plugin |
| 19:24.56 | Adys | granted webgl accesses some pieces of the OS which plugins cant |
| 19:25.01 | Adys | but those CAN be blocked |
| 19:25.11 | Arrowmaster | webgl access the fucking video card memory |
| 19:25.11 | Xinhuan | and the plugin can be written to be less exploitable |
| 19:25.27 | Adys | Xinhuan: nobody would know |
| 19:25.33 | Adys | plugins dont have to be open sourced |
| 19:25.34 | Xinhuan | i would argue that if microsoft gave plugins less access, people would complain too |
| 19:26.07 | Adys | because thats not how you fix security flaws |
| 19:26.14 | Xinhuan | although i'm aware that isn't the discussion |
| 19:26.22 | Cide | webgl (or a similiar technology) is a must for continuing the (imo) excellent direction the web has recently taken |
| 19:26.24 | Adys | unless something is terribly broken in the plugin design like in fx2 |
| 19:26.31 | Adys | yep Cide |
| 19:26.56 | Arrowmaster | you fix security flaws by dragging the idiot that let it slip through into the middle of the street and shooting him, then all the others will take more care to insure there are no security flaws |
| 19:27.10 | Adys | be reasonable, 10-15 years from now every OS will also be a browser more or less |
| 19:27.21 | Adys | (the current layer is useless) |
| 19:28.10 | Arrowmaster | sorry but in 10-15 years im hopping http and html arent around anymore |
| 19:28.20 | Adys | not a chance |
| 19:28.23 | airtonix | lol secondlife |
| 19:28.26 | Adys | gopher died last year |
| 19:28.27 | airtonix | lolololololol |
| 19:28.39 | Cide | why would you drop html? |
| 19:28.42 | Cide | and in favor of what? |
| 19:28.42 | Arrowmaster | gopher died long before that |
| 19:28.49 | airtonix | Cide: so he can feel elite |
| 19:28.59 | Adys | as for http thats more likely |
| 19:29.03 | Adys | google is still developing spdy |
| 19:29.09 | airtonix | "there'll be robots in the future" |
| 19:29.15 | Adys | in fact chrome14 has more spdy support |
| 19:29.26 | Adys | in any case thats totally irrelevant to the discussion |
| 19:29.33 | Arrowmaster | in 10-15 years i hope we arent still using 2d pages |
| 19:29.44 | airtonix | uamdbro |
| 19:29.45 | Adys | http and html or not, gpu access is still necessary for the browser |
| 19:29.48 | Arrowmaster | i want my 3d virtual reality |
| 19:29.58 | airtonix | pointless without neural canula |
| 19:30.11 | Arrowmaster | Adys: should be sandboxed though |
| 19:30.19 | Adys | thats implementation details |
| 19:30.21 | Adys | rejecting a standard because its too permissive is stupid |
| 19:30.26 | foxlit | " gpu access is still necessary for the browser" << hm? |
| 19:30.33 | Adys | foxlit: ms rejecting webgl |
| 19:30.40 | Arrowmaster | sandboxing should be part of the standard |
| 19:30.42 | Adys | http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/06/microsoft-no-way-to-support-webgl-and-meet-our-security-needs.ars |
| 19:30.48 | Adys | uhm |
| 19:30.50 | Adys | no? |
| 19:30.58 | Arrowmaster | if you dont start with security then your security is BROKEN |
| 19:31.01 | Adys | why would you standardize a security feature what the fuck? |
| 19:31.03 | foxlit | I'm questioning that statement, not the context. |
| 19:31.46 | Arrowmaster | im not saying standardize the security feature but put security requirements into the standard |
| 19:31.49 | Adys | foxlit: in the long run, giving browsers gpu access is necessary in order to develop richer apps |
| 19:31.56 | Adys | Arrowmaster: thats not what standards do |
| 19:32.12 | Arrowmaster | and 99% of standards suck |
| 19:32.32 | Adys | you may add a note to it saying "This is very permissive wrt the OS, make sure it is sandboxed if implemented!" |
| 19:32.46 | Adys | but in NO WAY should it be a req in the standard |
| 19:33.06 | Adys | if its in the standard, it has to be described extensively and implemented as such |
| 19:33.26 | foxlit | world of warcraft in the browser? |
| 19:33.30 | Adys | and if THAT is later on found to be flawed/broken by design, clients shit out |
| 19:33.40 | Kraps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxx6BupgRmI |
| 19:35.11 | foxlit | It strikes me that not standardizing a sandbox mechanism is basically inviting an end-run around the entire standard |
| 19:35.26 | foxlit | "Well, on our system, running XYZ is not supported, so do XABYZ instead." |
| 19:35.50 | Adys | you can publish some way of sandboxing as a standard, sure |
| 19:35.59 | Adys | but it shouldnt be required by any implementation |
| 19:35.59 | Cide | the goal of webgl is to expose the opengl api as far as I understand it |
| 19:36.12 | Cide | if the opengl api is broken wrt security, fix opengl, not webgl |
| 19:36.31 | Adys | Cide: the opengl api isnt broken, drivers tend to be |
| 19:36.40 | Cide | well that, yeah |
| 19:36.47 | Adys | but thats the same thing as tlund was saying earlier |
| 19:36.56 | Adys | ms doesnt ship their own intel/amd/nvidia drivers |
| 19:37.00 | Adys | so they're not "reponsible" |
| 19:37.06 | Adys | if you really want to pussy out behind that arg |
| 19:37.58 | Dagmar | The problem is that it allows shaders to be punted across. |
| 19:38.02 | Dagmar | THese are native machine code. |
| 19:38.12 | Adys | foxlit: my point is, imagine if the html4 standard said "when using input type=password, the transmitted data must be a md5 hash of the input" |
| 19:38.18 | Dagmar | That's a problem only marginally more hilarious than ActiveX |
| 19:38.20 | Adys | as a "security feature" of the standard |
| 19:39.05 | Adys | Dagmar: yeah i still find it ironic that this whole shit is coming from a company which gave us activex |
| 19:39.13 | Adys | but at least they're redeeming themselves |
| 19:39.19 | Arrowmaster | Adys: that would just be stupid not writing it with future advancements in mind |
| 19:39.24 | Dagmar | It's kind of a shallow victory, but yeah |
| 19:39.27 | Adys | Arrowmaster: exactly |
| 19:39.48 | Adys | its not the standard's job to enforce a special security feature |
| 19:39.48 | foxlit | Adys: imagine if html4 said "when using input type=password, the transmited data must be protected in some fashion" and browsers applied different hash functions to it. |
| 19:39.59 | Dagmar | If they could standardize shaders into the API, then we'd have something, but until then WebGL is not "internet-safe" in the least |
| 19:40.13 | foxlit | Chrome could do sha2; ie would send plaintext, but only through secure connections; firefox would md5 the whole thing |
| 19:40.13 | Adys | "MUST ... in some way" |
| 19:40.27 | Adys | "MUST ... in some way" is not standard talk |
| 19:40.34 | Cide | and we reach the conclusion that including that in a standard is stupid |
| 19:40.38 | Adys | yeah |
| 19:40.51 | Dagmar | foxlit: Imagine if HTML4 said "when using input type=password, the transmitted data must be filtered by a native assembly-code stub before being transmitted back to the web server. |
| 19:40.53 | Cide | there are several use cases for not displaying plaintext input while sending it as plaintext |
| 19:41.14 | Cide | so do shaders get arbitrary access to memory? |
| 19:41.23 | Cide | or can they only deal with the pixel/vertex/whatever data they're fed |
| 19:41.23 | Adys | shaders get pure access to gpu code |
| 19:41.31 | Adys | incl gpu memory |
| 19:41.38 | Arrowmaster | foxlit: this isnt html5 video we are talking about, a required base and a method of client/server agreeing on an additional method to use could be done |
| 19:41.47 | Cide | so the worst you can do is screen corruption? |
| 19:41.54 | Xinhuan | nope |
| 19:42.00 | Adys | you could do worse |
| 19:42.05 | Xinhuan | if you hang the GPU via an infinite loop in your shader code |
| 19:42.10 | Dewin | You could read off other parts of a user's screen... |
| 19:42.11 | Xinhuan | your PC essentially hangs |
| 19:42.26 | Arrowmaster | Cide: the specific example being mentioned is screen capturing and sending out confidential information to a 3rd party |
| 19:42.37 | Adys | you could indeed read the user's screen |
| 19:42.39 | Adys | HOWEVER |
| 19:42.42 | Adys | when properly sandboxed |
| 19:42.56 | Adys | you dont have screen access unless the browser gives proper permission |
| 19:43.08 | Adys | you only have browser-wide screen access, restricted to the tab it runs in |
| 19:43.15 | Xinhuan | so in theory, you can crash any system you wish if you had shader access |
| 19:43.24 | Adys | no |
| 19:43.27 | Adys | hang yes, crash no |
| 19:43.33 | Adys | crash would be driver security issue |
| 19:43.37 | Dagmar | Oh you can surely bugger up the video card |
| 19:43.37 | Cide | the two are only margnially different :P |
| 19:43.40 | Cide | "render unusable" |
| 19:43.41 | Xinhuan | well hang is as good as a crash to me |
| 19:43.48 | Arrowmaster | i think the problem here is that its an attempt to take a previous technology (OpenGL) designed to be used by trusted applications (you fucking installed the app right? so you trust it) and making it work for completely untrusted code |
| 19:43.49 | Adys | its a lot different.. |
| 19:43.53 | Dagmar | ...and either way it's hellishly wrong to be allowing random fuckers to hand you native code to execute |
| 19:43.54 | Cide | not to the end user |
| 19:44.02 | Adys | security wise it is different |
| 19:44.08 | Adys | "crash" kills every software running |
| 19:44.17 | Dagmar | None of this stuff was really designed with protection from it's own native code in mind |
| 19:44.18 | Adys | "hang" can be prevented by a running software (killing off the proper app) |
| 19:44.20 | Cide | Arrowmaster: doesn't have to be untrusted though |
| 19:44.35 | Adys | in any case |
| 19:44.36 | Xinhuan | not when a GPU hangs |
| 19:44.37 | Dagmar | You might as well just go back to running your website on DOS 6.22 as to try that |
| 19:44.38 | Cide | just do the equivalent of chrome's app allow dialog |
| 19:45.04 | Arrowmaster | it will be though unless you want to get into the activex like shit off code signing and being a slave to the broken root ca system |
| 19:45.04 | Cide | oh give it up |
| 19:45.15 | Cide | 99.9% of end users blindly install applications |
| 19:45.19 | Dagmar | Assuming someone can't write a shader that can't find a way to springboard back out from the CPU into the GPU is incredible naive |
| 19:45.20 | Adys | Xinhuan: if only the gpu hangs, the cpu can still execute code perfectly fine |
| 19:45.25 | Adys | and webgl should be click to play, just like flash |
| 19:45.27 | Cide | what's the difference between that and clicking an allow box |
| 19:45.34 | Cide | both code sources are equally untrusted |
| 19:45.35 | Arrowmaster | Cide: exactly so a 'click to allow' will have users bitching |
| 19:45.39 | Dagmar | Might as well say "no one will ever manage to find a way to exploit a stack overflow" |
| 19:45.46 | Cide | not really |
| 19:45.50 | bluspacecow | ok i go home to bed nows |
| 19:45.50 | Adys | Arrowmaster: not necessarily |
| 19:45.55 | Xinhuan | actually, that depends on the OS - its usually the case where when the GPU hangs, all your input devices stop responding |
| 19:46.00 | Adys | look at html5 location implementation in chrome |
| 19:46.05 | Arrowmaster | users bitch about anything that gets in the way of their facebook games |
| 19:46.06 | Xinhuan | so you can't do shit |
| 19:46.09 | Adys | Xinhuan: certainly not on linux |
| 19:46.10 | Xinhuan | and have to reboot anyway |
| 19:46.25 | Arrowmaster | Adys: it does on windows though |
| 19:46.32 | Adys | thats window's problem |
| 19:46.34 | Adys | not IE's |
| 19:46.41 | Cide | windows usually recovers though |
| 19:46.44 | Cide | from gpu crashes |
| 19:46.55 | Cide | but an infinite loop wouldn't be a crash |
| 19:47.02 | Cide | regardless |
| 19:47.02 | Xinhuan | not from hangs lol! |
| 19:47.13 | Cide | I don't see the difference between clicking allow versus downloading an executable |
| 19:47.26 | Cide | your average executable can do a lot more bad stuff than reading gpu memory |
| 19:48.11 | Adys | there is no security model which prevents the user from things the user doesn't want to happen |
| 19:48.35 | Dagmar | THose of us not using IE don't generally just let any side run exes on our machine |
| 19:48.47 | Adys | and if the user doesn't like elephants and an <img> contains a picture of an elephant, thats not a security issue |
| 19:48.55 | Adys | you draw the live |
| 19:48.56 | Adys | line |
| 19:49.06 | Dagmar | then you catch the man |
| 19:49.16 | Cide | I don't use IE and I don't particularly worry when I download an executable |
| 19:49.22 | Dagmar | doh.. sorry next you slowly spread the net |
| 19:49.31 | cog|away | airtonix: no, but there are other places i'd rather be :P |
| 19:49.41 | cogwheel | (with faster intertubes) |
| 19:49.46 | Cide | and I don't compile from source, scanning every line in the process |
| 19:49.49 | Adys | in webgl, you allow driver access. in a proper sandbox you allow tab-wide screen access |
| 19:50.03 | Cide | I don't see how that's possible |
| 19:50.46 | Arrowmaster | Adys: there should be finer grained control than that though |
| 19:50.54 | Adys | like what? |
| 19:51.06 | Dagmar | It should flat out not allow native code execution at that level |
| 19:51.20 | Cide | why? |
| 19:51.26 | Adys | no, that just defeats the purpose |
| 19:51.28 | Cide | shaders are absolutely necessary |
| 19:51.34 | Arrowmaster | like 3rd party js loaded in a page should be sandboxed to certain parts of the page |
| 19:51.37 | Dagmar | Sandboxing is what you do as a *fallback* mechanism against someone managing to *get around* your security |
| 19:51.51 | Cide | not really |
| 19:51.53 | Adys | no |
| 19:52.14 | Cide | you can't get rid of shaders |
| 19:52.18 | Dagmar | Yes you can |
| 19:52.21 | Adys | ugh |
| 19:52.25 | Dagmar | You require that the damn things be shipped by someone else |
| 19:52.26 | Cide | and do what instead? |
| 19:52.31 | Cide | ... |
| 19:52.37 | Cide | process the pixels and edges in the cpu? |
| 19:52.37 | Adys | webgl IS shipped by someone else |
| 19:52.47 | Adys | i dont get what you're trying to do here Dagmar |
| 19:53.06 | Dagmar | Adys: Trying to keep native code out of my browser, mainly |
| 19:53.22 | Adys | disable webgl then |
| 19:53.35 | Dagmar | I did that weeks ago when I realized what it was doing |
| 19:53.47 | Cide | and so you're already set |
| 19:54.05 | Adys | i have flash on click to play |
| 19:54.13 | Cide | the discussion is about making it as secure as possible while retaining the actual useful properties of it |
| 19:54.13 | Dagmar | It's going to remain unsafe for use across the internet so long as a big part of it amounts to letting the remote site supply native code to execute on the GPU |
| 19:54.21 | Adys | it doesnt bother me that plugins have the kind of access they do |
| 19:54.31 | Adys | as long as i can enable them when i want |
| 19:55.06 | Dagmar | Foolish as it sounds, we "trust" adobe, so we use their flash plugin, rather than let the remote site install it's own native executable stub to handle their flash implementation |
| 19:55.17 | Adys | that has nothing to do with it |
| 19:55.24 | Dagmar | Yeah it does |
| 19:55.25 | Adys | when you have a flash app running, you dont just trust adobe |
| 19:55.31 | Adys | you also have to trust the app vendor |
| 19:55.41 | Adys | which is a completely different story |
| 19:56.03 | *** join/#wowuidev blzp (~blzp@S010600259c530357.vn.shawcable.net) |
| 19:56.12 | Dagmar | No what the "app vendor" hands out is parsed by the flash plugin |
| 19:56.12 | Arrowmaster | in an ideal world we could trust adobe to not have security issues in flash so that we dont need to trust the source of the flash app |
| 19:56.29 | Adys | until chrome's sandboxing started being standard in firefox, you were vulnerable just because of a flash ad |
| 19:56.38 | Dagmar | In theory, Adobe is interested in not letting that code have free reign over the machine |
| 19:56.42 | Adys | plugins inherently have a LOT of access |
| 19:56.57 | Adys | its the same deal as current firefox extensions |
| 19:57.05 | Dagmar | WebGL takes that quite a bit further by allowing shaders to come from the remote website |
| 19:57.19 | Adys | shaders cant steal your passwords |
| 19:57.24 | Dagmar | Bullshit |
| 19:57.29 | Dagmar | Give it five years or less |
| 19:57.31 | Adys | <sigh> |
| 19:57.52 | Adys | so just because of "something unforeseen", we should prevent all sorts of advancements to the web platform? |
| 19:58.04 | Dagmar | If there's one damn thing I've learned about computer security since the goddamn 80's it's to *never* think some exploit mechanism will never become viable |
| 19:58.15 | Cide | good for you |
| 19:58.20 | Cide | is there a reason you still don't use lynx? |
| 19:58.35 | Cide | s/you still don't use lynx/you don't use lynx still/ |
| 19:58.42 | Dagmar | I have *multiple* examples of shit people swore would never be practically possible, that work and work *well* at compromising hosts that ignored them as threats |
| 19:58.49 | Adys | Cide: you don't still use lynx |
| 19:58.57 | Dagmar | Goddamn heap exploits even |
| 19:59.00 | Cide | whatever |
| 19:59.04 | Adys | :D |
| 19:59.15 | Cide | is there a reason you don't still use lynx, Dagmar? |
| 19:59.16 | Adys | im not saying its not practically possible |
| 19:59.31 | Cide | naturally there must be tons of unforeseen exploits in chrome/firefox/opera/whatever |
| 19:59.38 | Adys | im saying just because someone, somewhere, at some point will think of an exploit for it |
| 19:59.44 | Cide | at some point you have to say fuck it and deal with them as they show up |
| 19:59.47 | Adys | that doesnt mean it shouldnt exist |
| 20:00.00 | Dagmar | Yeah, but we can prevent most of them by implementing things to handle them |
| 20:00.05 | Cide | naturally |
| 20:00.12 | Cide | but DISABLING THE WHOLE THING is not the solution |
| 20:00.16 | Adys | yes, which is the point of proper sandboxing and all |
| 20:00.17 | Dagmar | ...which is why we *do* thinks like enable NX in the OS and compile with stack protection |
| 20:00.19 | *** join/#wowuidev solocommand (solocomman@68-185-170-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) |
| 20:00.28 | Cide | yes |
| 20:00.34 | Dagmar | We don't just chuckle to ourselves and say "PROGRESS MUST NOT BE SLOWED" |
| 20:00.36 | Cide | and the security of webgl can surely be improved |
| 20:00.37 | Adys | lets remind something |
| 20:00.46 | Dagmar | We fix the problems, THEN we use the shiny |
| 20:00.48 | Cide | disabling shaders is not the solution, however |
| 20:00.55 | Adys | just because you can run native gpu code |
| 20:00.57 | Dagmar | I never suggested disabling shaders |
| 20:01.01 | Adys | doesn't mean you can "do whatever" |
| 20:01.06 | Adys | uhwhat |
| 20:01.07 | Cide | <Cide> you can't get rid of shaders <Dagmar> Yes you can |
| 20:01.12 | Adys | you did |
| 20:01.12 | Adys | :P |
| 20:01.22 | Cide | <Dagmar> You require that the damn things be shipped by someone else |
| 20:01.36 | Dagmar | Yes, amazingly that is not getting rid of shaders |
| 20:01.39 | Dagmar | Thanks for playing |
| 20:01.47 | Dagmar | nVidia gives us drivers |
| 20:01.52 | Cide | so wait |
| 20:01.59 | Cide | you're suggesting we have a pool of trusted shaders |
| 20:02.05 | Cide | from some third party website |
| 20:02.06 | Adys | *scratches head* |
| 20:02.08 | Dagmar | Clearly this is too complex an issue for you to handle |
| 20:02.33 | mckenziemc | Clearly this is too complex an issue for you to explain |
| 20:02.33 | Cide | clearly you must resort to personal attacks in order to discuss this issu |
| 20:02.34 | Cide | e |
| 20:03.08 | *** part/#wowuidev mckenziemc (~Mark@ppp-67-121-239-114.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net) |
| 20:03.14 | Dagmar | No, I don't. |
| 20:03.16 | Cide | reminds me of some other discussion we had |
| 20:03.16 | Adys | Clearly he didn't like that. |
| 20:03.23 | Cide | oh, every other discussion we had, that's it |
| 20:03.37 | Cide | thanks for playing! afk |
| 20:03.45 | Adys | more to the point Dagmar |
| 20:04.05 | Adys | webgl pushes the web platform forward |
| 20:04.06 | Dagmar | The solution is for *what the shaders will do* to be standardized, have video card vendors or alternatively a third party that is RELATIVELY TRUSTED to supply them, and to STOP just laughing like a retard and allowing J. Random Website to supply _native executeable code_ |
| 20:04.14 | Dagmar | It's really simple. |
| 20:04.23 | Adys | no |
| 20:04.28 | Dagmar | Yes. |
| 20:04.36 | Adys | standardizing what shaders do just kills creativity |
| 20:04.41 | Adys | thats worse than censorship |
| 20:04.50 | Dagmar | Not doing so kills *secuirty* and any serious hope of it |
| 20:04.59 | Adys | first of all, no it doesnt |
| 20:05.11 | Adys | any 3rd party shader could be exploited in some way, the same "unforeseen" way |
| 20:05.12 | Dagmar | Yes, it does. |
| 20:05.17 | Adys | second of all |
| 20:05.19 | Dagmar | Adys: So can Flash |
| 20:05.28 | Adys | BUT IM NOT ARGUING over flash |
| 20:05.33 | Adys | i have it on click to play |
| 20:05.36 | Adys | i dont care about it |
| 20:05.45 | Dagmar | However, there's at least someone trying to prevent that from happing, instead of just sticking the stranger's candy right into your damn mouth |
| 20:06.16 | Dagmar | We've got plenty of actual history to show that *allowing native code to come from strangers is madness* |
| 20:06.20 | Adys | and; second of all, limiting shaders is like saying "just in case you get in your mind to draw a penis, i forbid you from drawing straight lines" |
| 20:06.40 | Dagmar | THat the company that in perma-fail mode over ActiveX is willing to finally admit this should be a goddamn sign |
| 20:07.04 | Adys | activex gave *much* more sensitive access than webgl does |
| 20:07.12 | Adys | filesystem, memory |
| 20:07.18 | Adys | gl doesnt give those |
| 20:07.18 | Dagmar | How much more damn sensitive can it get than native code? |
| 20:07.26 | Adys | native gpu code |
| 20:07.33 | Adys | again with that |
| 20:07.56 | Dagmar | Yes, and at the moment there's no OS out there that I've heard of where anyone designed any of the interfaces to the video card to protect against hostile intention |
| 20:08.11 | Dagmar | That particular border is about as soft as DOS 6.22 |
| 20:08.23 | Dagmar | No one writing MS-DOS really appeared to care about the possibility of hostile code |
| 20:08.26 | Adys | gpu code doesn't have the same sort of access than cpu code does.. |
| 20:08.45 | Dagmar | Not in the mainboard it doesn't, but in the GPU it absolutely does have the same kind of access |
| 20:09.13 | Adys | that doesnt inherently make it vulnerable |
| 20:09.23 | Dagmar | It even gets direct access to large spans of mainboard RAM in lots of cases |
| 20:09.31 | *** join/#wowuidev mckenziemc (~Mark@ppp-67-121-239-114.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net) |
| 20:09.35 | Adys | that part can be sandboxed |
| 20:09.41 | Dagmar | ...and yes actually it does make it inherently vulnerable |
| 20:09.44 | Kraps | i think this isnt supposed to happen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7MfHsLT9hY&feature=player_embedded |
| 20:09.49 | Dagmar | ...and it's *not* sandboxed. |
| 20:09.51 | gsnerf | adys the point is that nothing that is accessible through a web browser should be concidered safe enough to be run natively on hardware |
| 20:10.09 | Arrowmaster | Adys: sandboxed by the drivers right? so we are back to the all video card drivers must be secure part |
| 20:10.25 | Dagmar | If you're going to allow native code from strangers, then *yes* |
| 20:10.36 | Dagmar | There has to be a security border *somewhere* |
| 20:10.36 | Adys | Arrowmaster: no, it can be sandboxed by the os/browser |
| 20:10.44 | Adys | webgl code doesnt run "as is" |
| 20:10.44 | Dagmar | Usually two or three different ones |
| 20:10.50 | Adys | it goes through a webgl process |
| 20:11.02 | Adys | then that process offloads its work to the gpu |
| 20:11.13 | gsnerf | the web gl process is effectively just creating system calls that are run on the graphics card |
| 20:11.29 | Dagmar | Hell, i'd be suprised if someone isn't blowing that silly theory up at one of the next two BlackHats |
| 20:11.40 | gsnerf | you saw the security issue in the current web gl implementation of FF? |
| 20:11.50 | Adys | of COURSE there are security issues |
| 20:11.55 | gsnerf | you currently are able to create screenshots of a system by running remote code |
| 20:12.01 | Adys | thats why shit is in dev currently |
| 20:12.09 | gsnerf | without breaking in to the system |
| 20:12.24 | Adys | im not denying that there *are* security issues |
| 20:12.42 | Adys | im saying thats not a good enough reason to just "forget" about it |
| 20:12.46 | Adys | and never implement webgl |
| 20:12.57 | Adys | its an absolutely critical part of the web |
| 20:13.43 | Dagmar | Yes, clearly spinning 3D boxes are necessary for the immediate future of humanity |
| 20:13.55 | Adys | yes, thats clearly what webgl is designed for |
| 20:14.06 | Dagmar | INsecurely. |
| 20:14.15 | Dagmar | It's possible to have spinning boxes *and* safety |
| 20:14.16 | gsnerf | well i don't know about the critical part, the point is that the current way how web gl is intended to work is kind of bogus from a security point of view |
| 20:14.22 | Dagmar | Running native code isn't fucking it tho |
| 20:14.46 | gsnerf | i think the idea of web gl is nice |
| 20:14.53 | Dagmar | I freaking love the demos |
| 20:14.54 | gsnerf | not necessary, but nice to have |
| 20:15.07 | gsnerf | the current way of doing it doesn't seem to be as nice |
| 20:15.09 | Adys | "clearly, being able to display blinking sites about your dog is critical for the future of humanity" - Dagmar about the Internet, 1992 |
| 20:15.37 | Dagmar | Adys: So basically, what you're saying is that you're coming out in support of the <BLINK> tag, right? |
| 20:15.41 | gsnerf | well the point has proven ^^ |
| 20:15.55 | Dagmar | ...and unlike you I actually was talking about this stuff in 92 |
| 20:16.00 | Dagmar | Pbbllt. |
| 20:16.05 | Dagmar | =) |
| 20:16.06 | gsnerf | lol |
| 20:16.25 | Adys | Dagmar: what im saying is you'd have liked the web never to exist just because dogsites are stupid. |
| 20:16.38 | Adys | because thats CLEARLY what the web was designed for at the time. |
| 20:16.45 | Adys | INsecurely. |
| 20:16.45 | gsnerf | naa, because blinking text is stupid, which it still is ;P |
| 20:17.28 | Dagmar | No, I'd have never allowed the web to exist if it meant transporing unsecurable native code from strangers |
| 20:17.28 | Adys | ps: blink is a required value of the text-decoration property in css2.1 and css3 |
| 20:17.31 | Adys | yeah exactly |
| 20:17.33 | Adys | you're a caveman |
| 20:17.35 | Dagmar | However, it didn't take very long to come up with a freaking abstraction layer |
| 20:18.05 | Dagmar | Demanding the shiny "now" and damn the consequences is about as smart as eating candy you got from a guy in a van because the store is a half a block walk |
| 20:18.08 | Adys | you remind me of that retard governor who forbid restaurants from using salt because of health issues |
| 20:18.52 | gsnerf | i think the weighting between security and features is 'slightly' different in this case ^^ |
| 20:19.03 | Adys | and i dont see why i wouldnt eat the candy i got off the guy in a van if the store is half a block walk away |
| 20:19.14 | Adys | i trust my health to some random guy in both cases |
| 20:19.48 | Dagmar | Yeah but one of thsoe guys can be more easily located an arrested after you black out and wake up with your underwear missing and your asshole sore |
| 20:20.05 | Adys | i dont possibly see how one is more easily located than the other |
| 20:20.21 | Adys | and i sandbox my asshole every day |
| 20:20.27 | Adys | so that i dont run into these issues |
| 20:20.31 | Dagmar | If you can't tell the difference in risk between those two situations, you should leave the decision-making to the grown-ups |
| 20:20.33 | Adys | </analogy:end> |
| 20:21.28 | Adys | i can tell differences in risks |
| 20:21.51 | Dagmar | No, you clearly can't if you think you're looking at the same risk from a strange guy in a van and the clerk at the mini-market. |
| 20:22.02 | Adys | it was a joke |
| 20:22.14 | Adys | you in your analogy you never, ever go to the mini-market |
| 20:22.16 | Dagmar | It's actually a pretty good analogy for this problem, however |
| 20:22.38 | Adys | you're fucking forbidding webgl to exist |
| 20:22.39 | Lunessa | ... |
| 20:22.44 | Dagmar | If you take the candy from the guy in the van you'll be lucky to *ever* make it to the mini-market. |
| 20:22.47 | Adys | thats not an "i go to the candy store 1 block away" |
| 20:22.53 | Dagmar | I'm doing no such thing. |
| 20:23.03 | Dagmar | I'm saying flat out that as it currently stands it is unsafe by definition. |
| 20:23.04 | Adys | yeah, sorry, you're forbidding shaders |
| 20:23.13 | Dagmar | Not forbidding shaders. |
| 20:23.26 | Adys | a 3rd party list is just as good as forbidding them |
| 20:23.41 | Dagmar | I'm saying they can't be taken as native code from random untrustable websites |
| 20:23.42 | Adys | imagine if you couldn't define your own functions in js |
| 20:23.48 | Dagmar | Bullshit |
| 20:23.49 | Adys | and only ever stick to the base API |
| 20:24.00 | Adys | its the same. fucking. thing |
| 20:24.08 | Dagmar | Yes, amazingly functins in js eventually become native code because it's parsed |
| 20:24.16 | Adys | without shaders you have your spinning cubes |
| 20:24.24 | Adys | with shaders you have more creative shit |
| 20:24.29 | Arrowmaster | whats wrong with leaving features disabled by default at first until a later specification review when security issues have had longer to mature? |
| 20:24.32 | Adys | theres no point to webgl if you dont allow creativity |
| 20:24.38 | Dagmar | Ther'es no real reason someone can't cook up a shader language that would turn auditable, limited-purpose uinstructions into native code on behalf of the third part |
| 20:24.41 | Adys | Arrowmaster: features *are* disabled by default currently. |
| 20:24.46 | Dagmar | You know, kind of like gcc creates native code. |
| 20:24.47 | Adys | webgl is still under heavy dev |
| 20:25.14 | Adys | yes, you're totally right on that |
| 20:25.18 | Adys | theres no reason someone cant do that |
| 20:25.19 | Dagmar | Right now, it's not safe by definition. THat has to change because it's not like people are going to get *less* criminal over time |
| 20:25.42 | Adys | but its not inherently a security issue if the browser properly secures everything |
| 20:25.54 | Adys | gpu memory access *can* be limited. screen access *can* be limited. |
| 20:25.56 | Dagmar | The browser can't secure that kind of code |
| 20:26.02 | Adys | past those two, theres no inherent security risk |
| 20:26.06 | Adys | im sure theres plenty of it |
| 20:26.09 | Dagmar | The OS has absolutely nothing protecting against those kinds of attacks, either. |
| 20:26.14 | Adys | but not by design, none that cant be eventually prevented |
| 20:26.33 | Adys | and fuck it, if you cant see the benefit of webgl over those security risks anyway, you're blind |
| 20:26.54 | Adys | just like you wouldnt have seen the benefits of the web back in 1992 |
| 20:26.56 | Dagmar | I can see the benefits, and I'm fine with waiting patiently until someone comes up with a *safe* way to do it |
| 20:27.04 | Adys | erm |
| 20:27.08 | Adys | no you're noty |
| 20:27.10 | Dagmar | Dude I had a fucking *website* back in '92 |
| 20:27.16 | Adys | i dont care |
| 20:27.29 | Dagmar | I learned the seven basic tags from the fuckers who came up with them |
| 20:27.38 | Adys | i really dont give a shit mate |
| 20:27.41 | Adys | you're going to shoot down every guy who comes up with a safer and safer way to implement webgl |
| 20:27.51 | Dagmar | Clearly you do since you keep trying to bring up the distant past |
| 20:27.59 | Dagmar | Nope. |
| 20:28.12 | Adys | Yeah, you are. someone who shoots down shaders is that kind of guy |
| 20:28.15 | Dagmar | I'll consider highly suspect everything that involves running native code from strangers. |
| 20:28.25 | Adys | which is the very idea of webgl |
| 20:28.34 | Dagmar | It is a fundamentlally flawed thing to do and has been for years |
| 20:28.50 | Adys | thats your (wrong) opinion |
| 20:28.50 | Dagmar | This can be done *without* taking native code from strangers. |
| 20:28.55 | Adys | no it can't |
| 20:29.04 | Adys | Cide: see how good I am at dagmarguing? |
| 20:30.23 | Dagmar | My "flawed" opinion is one shared by other security professionals, world-wide. |
| 20:30.31 | Dagmar | If you don't like it, go complain to a grown-up. |
| 20:31.05 | Adys | no it's not |
| 20:31.20 | Dagmar | I'm freaking finding discussions among the damn people who are developing the standard showing that they know this is a problem |
| 20:31.22 | Adys | it's shared by some ms devs who benefit from not having webgl in ie |
| 20:31.24 | Dagmar | So clearly, they agree as well |
| 20:31.31 | Adys | really |
| 20:31.41 | Adys | show me these guys saying "dang, we should forbid shaders!" |
| 20:31.47 | Dagmar | WHat MS says about it is just to benefit MS because they didn't invent it |
| 20:31.58 | Dagmar | l2google, bitch |
| 20:32.20 | *** part/#wowuidev gsnerf (~gsnerf@dslb-088-073-031-034.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:32.28 | Adys | every webgl dev agrees there are security flaws to take care of still |
| 20:32.55 | Adys | nobody with some sparkle of common sense agrees that shaders should be taken out of the webgl standard to fix it |
| 20:38.32 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 20:38.32 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 20:43.44 | cogwheel | zg makes me hate people |
| 20:43.48 | cogwheel | where are all the totems?? |
| 20:43.54 | cogwheel | wtb moar guildies from here |
| 20:47.25 | |Jelly| | 437/525 Archaeology |
| 20:47.45 | |Jelly| | so ... /suicide-ing ? lol |
| 20:47.58 | mckenziemc | ? |
| 20:55.11 | Fisker | hey cogwheel |
| 20:56.32 | Cide | Adys: pretty nice indeed |
| 20:56.36 | Cide | I think it's funny though |
| 20:56.52 | Adys | hm? |
| 20:56.55 | Cide | the discussion was about how to actually make webgl secure enough to actually use |
| 20:57.04 | Cide | and it turned into how it's not secure |
| 20:57.09 | Cide | as if anyone ever contested that |
| 20:57.25 | Adys | http://www.google-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=1627 |
| 20:57.28 | Adys | i am so getting that |
| 20:57.49 | Adys | woot they ship a moderately hot chick too http://www.google-store.com/images/GO80043-2.jpg |
| 20:58.02 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~alestane@c-66-30-17-67.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 20:58.02 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 20:58.31 | Fisker | sweet |
| 20:58.45 | Adys | hot chick pings Fisker |
| 20:58.48 | Adys | news at 11 |
| 20:58.54 | Fisker | :O |
| 20:59.05 | Fisker | airtonix i wonder if you can wash the bag |
| 20:59.13 | Fisker | GEDDIT? I'M TALKING ABOUT THE CHICK LOL |
| 20:59.23 | Fisker | airtonix = Adys btw |
| 21:00.36 | Adys | i get it somewhat. |
| 21:07.52 | *** join/#wowuidev cloudwolf (~chatzilla@c-71-227-249-44.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 21:11.48 | Kraps | why is Fisker so rascist |
| 21:12.13 | mckenziemc | why are you so Fiskcist |
| 21:16.55 | Fisker | i'm not a rascist |
| 21:18.31 | Adys | http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2011/06/saudi-women-driving-change/ |
| 21:19.18 | *** join/#wowuidev TC-Laptop (~TC@c-069-063-214-148.sd2.redwire.net) |
| 21:28.52 | Ackis | holy shit Adys really? |
| 21:29.01 | Adys | ? |
| 21:29.12 | Ackis | your link |
| 21:29.15 | Ackis | women can drive?!?! |
| 21:29.17 | Adys | which? |
| 21:29.24 | Ackis | chuckles |
| 21:29.30 | Adys | .. what? |
| 21:29.39 | Fisker | Ackis |
| 21:29.49 | Fisker | i wish they couldn't drive :( |
| 21:30.39 | Adys | Ackis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia#Mobility |
| 21:30.43 | Fisker | http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2226276335 <-Adys is playing WoW again according to this gentleman |
| 21:30.53 | Adys | Women are not allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia, although it is often tolerated in rural areas. Saudi Arabia has no written ban on women driving, but Saudi law requires citizens to use a locally issued license while in the country. Such licenses are not issued to women, thus making it effectively illegal for women to drive. |
| 21:31.08 | Fisker | can paraplegic women drive? |
| 21:35.02 | mckenziemc | can Fisker drive? |
| 21:36.11 | Fisker | i can |
| 21:36.37 | mckenziemc | you can drive, but can you actually drive |
| 21:37.02 | starlon | yeah but can you push when situations demand it? |
| 21:37.14 | Fisker | someone is wrong on the internet mckenziemc |
| 21:37.17 | Fisker | i must correct this |
| 21:37.35 | mckenziemc | wut |
| 21:38.00 | mckenziemc | more like 'someone used a non sequitur on the internet' |
| 21:38.03 | Fisker | http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2226276335 |
| 21:38.36 | mckenziemc | oic |
| 21:39.31 | foxlit | I don't see how anyone with that spelling could have children. |
| 21:40.07 | Fisker | went along with it for a while |
| 21:40.08 | starlon | put worm in hole, enjoy the very short moment, wait and bake for 9 months. viola |
| 21:40.16 | mckenziemc | you'd be suprised! |
| 21:40.28 | Fisker | but had to point out that his "deep concern for his childrens safety" was apparently eclipsed by him whining over goldsellers and blizzard selling out |
| 21:41.50 | Lunessa | foxlit: the only requirement for having children is the ability to obtain an erection (on either side of that equation). |
| 21:42.23 | Fisker | i'm not sure i agree |
| 21:42.33 | Fisker | some people can go without an erection |
| 21:42.52 | Fisker | or so i've heard |
| 21:43.45 | foxlit | Looking at the posting history, I'm still not buying it |
| 21:43.56 | Lunessa | Fisker, they make drugs for that now. You can see your doctor. It's probably even paid for by the state where you live. |
| 21:44.09 | Fisker | nah |
| 21:44.25 | foxlit | More or less everything is "zomg what is this this change sucks now and i cant be bothered to press the enter key to delimit paragraphs or maybe i just think in one undelimited stream of shit." |
| 21:44.33 | Fisker | where i live they would rather spend millions in legal fees than pay out :) |
| 21:45.38 | Lunessa | foxlit: but won't someone please think of the chiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiilfreeeeeeeeeeen? |
| 21:45.40 | Fisker | They're like LulzSecurity but for municipality officials Lunessa |
| 21:45.56 | foxlit | Lunessa: "think of the children" arguments usually require eloquency |
| 21:46.05 | foxlit | This is just "ZOMG CHILDREN REVERT NOW!" |
| 21:46.19 | Lunessa | foxlit: Appeal to emotion requires not real thinking. |
| 21:46.20 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 21:46.25 | Fisker | hey kd3 |
| 21:46.36 | kd3 | 'lo |
| 21:46.42 | Lunessa | pfft. I can't type. |
| 21:46.50 | foxlit | Lunessa: kinda hard to appeal to anything if you're perceived as a loon :) |
| 21:47.27 | Fisker | when i get kids they will be supa vised all of the time |
| 21:47.28 | Lunessa | You forget - you surround yourself with mostly intelligent people - and one Fisker. |
| 21:48.00 | starlon | Surround yourself with Fisker. |
| 21:48.18 | starlon | is done now. |
| 21:48.28 | *** join/#wowuidev TC-Laptop (~TC@c-069-063-214-148.sd2.redwire.net) |
| 21:49.21 | Fisker | are you surrounded by me? |
| 21:49.45 | starlon | I'm inside you. |
| 21:51.32 | *** part/#wowuidev starlon (~starlon@melody.lyrical.net) |
| 21:54.27 | *** join/#wowuidev starlon (~starlon@melody.lyrical.net) |
| 21:55.23 | Torhal|work | ... |
| 21:55.38 | Fisker | Torhal|work |
| 22:00.00 | Lunessa | Ok, I'm out of here - time to get back to my semi-charmed kind of life. |
| 22:00.10 | Fisker | nooooooooooo |
| 22:00.39 | *** join/#wowuidev TMc51 (~TMc51@cpe-74-71-30-131.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 22:06.12 | Fisker | Olison |
| 22:06.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Odlaw (~hrack@2001:470:1f05:1f4:3831:affe:79cc:363e) |
| 22:18.56 | kd3 | http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap110617.html |
| 22:21.12 | Adys | kd3: beautiful |
| 22:21.33 | kd3 | shame I live on the wrong part of the planet when that happened |
| 22:21.53 | zenzelezz | where's that? |
| 22:22.01 | kd3 | north/central america |
| 22:22.23 | Adys | kd3: i live in the right part but it was cloudy |
| 22:22.41 | Adys | friend from romania got everything clear-sky, sent a few pictures, really beautiful |
| 22:22.58 | Adys | the moon looks scary in that picture |
| 22:27.43 | Fisker | kd3 |
| 22:48.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Sum_Wun (~sum_wun@cpe-70-120-219-12.stx.res.rr.com) |
| 22:50.17 | karl_w_w | so the second time i log in since authenticator change |
| 22:50.21 | karl_w_w | it doesnt ask me for it |
| 22:50.33 | karl_w_w | and i use a shared IP |
| 22:52.00 | starlon | should be able to turn that feature off |
| 22:52.14 | TMc51 | good thing you can opt out. |
| 22:52.26 | starlon | by not using an authenticator? |
| 22:52.29 | starlon | or another way? |
| 22:52.34 | TMc51 | should be optional to opt-in rather than having to opt-out. |
| 22:52.47 | TMc51 | no, there's supposed to be a setting for it. |
| 22:52.52 | starlon | ah |
| 22:53.02 | Mikk | the smart way would be to store a secret clientside |
| 22:53.08 | TMc51 | at least i think. people were talking about it last night. |
| 22:53.20 | Mikk | not just look at ip |
| 22:53.25 | Cide | why should it be opt-in |
| 22:53.28 | Cide | that's just stupid |
| 22:53.51 | starlon | well it creates a security issue by default |
| 22:54.04 | Mikk | on a completely unrelated note.. has anyone here watched the Gundam anime? where should i start watching roughly? something tells me i'll laugh at the 80s stuff now :P |
| 22:54.05 | Cide | no |
| 22:54.19 | Cide | it slightly decreases the security of authenticators in very specific circumstances |
| 22:54.30 | TMc51 | Mikk: Start with Gundam Wing IMO. Most current Gundam fans started there. |
| 22:54.31 | Cide | that't not a security *issue* |
| 22:54.35 | Mikk | TMc51: tyvm |
| 22:54.42 | kd3 | yah |
| 22:54.45 | kd3 | I would agree with that |
| 22:55.03 | Cide | also the login pattern deal has been implemented a long time |
| 22:55.13 | TMc51 | try to pick up the mangas, and not just the anime. GW was awesome. :) |
| 22:56.32 | Mikk | manga hurts my head with the reading direction :P |
| 22:56.42 | kd3 | you get used to it |
| 22:56.48 | kd3 | I have to think to read western-style comics now |
| 22:56.57 | TMc51 | You get used to it. I find it hard to go back to reading comics, because I tend to read right to left for the first few pages. |
| 22:57.42 | TMc51 | You cvan always try manhwas, instead. |
| 22:57.51 | TMc51 | it's same art style as manga, and read left to right. |
| 23:02.27 | Adys | karl_w_w: it checks more than just ip |
| 23:19.22 | Jamash | don't watch gundam wing under any circumstances |
| 23:20.07 | Jamash | well, let me amend that: only watch gundam wing if you are only watching it to make fun of how bad it is |
| 23:24.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Diao (vince@70-36-134-69.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 23:35.18 | Arrowmaster | Mikk: i think theres 4+ different gundam 'universes', i believe wing, seed/seed+destiny, and 00 are their own separate universes and theres another universe that seems to be on going from the original movies that started it and are currently being used in unicorn |
| 23:36.06 | Mikk | Jamash: i'm assuming a certain level of badness will still be involved yes :P |
| 23:37.09 | Arrowmaster | oh shit, gundam unicorn ep3 is out and i didnt even know it |
| 23:37.23 | Jamash | Mikk: oh, also if you're into shonen-ai, then definitely watch gundam wing |
| 23:37.51 | Jamash | Arrowmaster: is that lauren faust's gundam reboot? |
| 23:38.01 | Mikk | ew? |
| 23:38.10 | Mr_Rabies | i'm a huge gundam nerd |
| 23:38.23 | Mr_Rabies | i thought my irc was messed up what with people talking about it in here |
| 23:38.23 | Arrowmaster | Jamash: i have no idea |
| 23:38.36 | Mr_Rabies | lol Jamash |
| 23:38.53 | Jamash | Arrowmaster: lauren faust = my little pony friendship is magic |
| 23:39.12 | Mr_Rabies | Arrowmaster: the original gundam universe is called Universal Century, and it's the biggest (and best, imo) universe |
| 23:39.14 | Arrowmaster | Jamash: i take it you havent seen unicorn yet then, go watch it |
| 23:39.17 | Jamash | 'cause if it were I'd be on that like rogues on a flagged level 1 |
| 23:39.38 | Jamash | I don't watch gay space robot anime |
| 23:39.43 | Arrowmaster | Mr_Rabies: unicorn is in UC right and the others i mentioned are all separate right? |
| 23:39.55 | Mr_Rabies | yep |
| 23:40.08 | Mr_Rabies | Jamash: the original Gundam storyline is really, really good |
| 23:40.56 | Jamash | is it better than Black Lion? |
| 23:41.00 | Mr_Rabies | i have so much gundam info i can't even imagine where to start in getting someone introduced |
| 23:41.03 | Arrowmaster | seed borrowed some of the beginning from the original |
| 23:41.18 | Arrowmaster | thats about as much of the original i know |
| 23:41.36 | Mr_Rabies | i've never heard of Black Lion but it's Go Nagai |
| 23:41.44 | Mr_Rabies | and Go Nagai owns |
| 23:41.50 | Jamash | because Black Lion has alien cyborg odo nobunaga |
| 23:42.10 | Jamash | with guns |
| 23:42.24 | Mr_Rabies | the original gundam story is basically this |
| 23:42.27 | Jamash | also a built in nuclear fission reactor |
| 23:43.18 | Mr_Rabies | first space wars were fought over independence of space colony-born people known as spacenoids, and most combat was with huge battleship type spaceships |
| 23:43.34 | Jamash | so unless your gay space robots are more hilariously bad than space cyborg nuclear alien odo nobunaga I'm not really interested |
| 23:44.28 | Mr_Rabies | but a new source of fuel was manufactured that is better than traditional fuels in every way except one: use of it tends to make radar and long-range wireless communication difficult |
| 23:44.33 | Jamash | spacenoids sound painful |
| 23:45.06 | Jamash | blah blah "justify space melee combat" blah blah "space robot particles" blah |
| 23:45.17 | Mr_Rabies | so combat slowly started to shift to mobile suits, which were not quite as powerful as the huge battleships, but one could take out a huge fleet ship because of its mobility |
| 23:45.26 | Jamash | and they have legs, in space |
| 23:46.14 | Arrowmaster | Mr_Rabies: then you get to shit like 00 where a single gundam can take out giant fleats of battleships and you start thinking theyve run out of ideas |
| 23:46.35 | Mr_Rabies | the legs are used for a number of useful reasons, but in the end the franchise was greenlighted because a toy company was funding them |
| 23:46.49 | Mr_Rabies | the director didn't want to make a toy commercial, but that was the only way to sell anime at the time |
| 23:47.05 | Jamash | it's like transformers, except japanese (ha) |
| 23:47.21 | Mr_Rabies | so he made it as realistic and brutal as possible but in the end merchandise had to be sold |
| 23:47.28 | Mr_Rabies | it's still a great story |
| 23:47.37 | Mr_Rabies | because he was able to work around his limits |
| 23:48.03 | Jamash | see, here's the problem: The first robot anime I ever watched was Evangelion |
| 23:48.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Naloz-Work (~jgk@70.102.219.22) |
| 23:48.42 | Arrowmaster | not technically a robot anime |
| 23:48.53 | Jamash | after having the entire genre deconstructed and reconstructed before my very eyes, the stuff that was deconstructed doesn't hold a lot of appeal |
| 23:49.05 | Mr_Rabies | basically, teenage boy gets conscripted into the military when his colony gets attacked, and he climbs into a prototype mobile suit to survive, ends up being a decent pilot, and i don't want to spoil much more |
| 23:49.09 | Jamash | Arrowmaster: I can't fathom in what way it isn't a robot anime. |
| 23:49.15 | Mr_Rabies | but it really covers the horrors of war in a great way |
| 23:49.16 | Arrowmaster | Jamash: they arent robots |
| 23:49.21 | Jamash | Mr_Rabies: EVERY ANIME EVER |
| 23:49.30 | Mr_Rabies | because gundam started the trend :p |
| 23:49.42 | Mr_Rabies | nothing was really like that until gundam came out |
| 23:49.47 | Jamash | Arrowmaster: they're meat popsicles |
| 23:49.57 | Mr_Rabies | before that it was all super robot, mazinger z knockoffs |
| 23:49.58 | Arrowmaster | yes they are |
| 23:50.06 | Mr_Rabies | after gundam, everything was a gundam knockoff |
| 23:50.33 | Jamash | Mr_Rabies: but that's my point, Eva ruined gundam for me |
| 23:50.53 | Mr_Rabies | i don't think it would if you really watched it |
| 23:50.57 | Mr_Rabies | it's a really good story |
| 23:51.17 | Arrowmaster | Jamash: try macross then |
| 23:51.25 | Mr_Rabies | Eva basically is "what if gundam happened in modern day, and instead of the boy being a late 70s japanese teenager, it was a 90s japanese teenager" |
| 23:51.33 | Jamash | Arrowmaster: macross is awesome |
| 23:51.41 | Arrowmaster | yes, yes it is |
| 23:51.46 | Jamash | Mr_Rabies: you fail at evangelion |
| 23:51.46 | Arrowmaster | except the orginal |
| 23:51.50 | Arrowmaster | that shit was boring |
| 23:51.55 | Mr_Rabies | macross was created by a bunch of dudes that ran a gundam fanzine until they lucked out |
| 23:51.57 | Mr_Rabies | whaaaaaaaaat |
| 23:52.00 | Mr_Rabies | the original macross rocks |
| 23:52.07 | Jamash | how many giant robots are there in evangelion? |
| 23:52.23 | Arrowmaster | the last quarter of sdf macross just drags on and on |
| 23:52.41 | Arrowmaster | Jamash: none |
| 23:52.43 | Mr_Rabies | it does kinda drag at some points |
| 23:52.49 | Jamash | a handful, and they each cost a significant fraction of gross global economic output |
| 23:53.21 | Mr_Rabies | the Gundam is literally the only mech the Earth Federation has in Gundam until the very end |
| 23:53.24 | Mr_Rabies | there's only one |
| 23:53.34 | Jamash | also, they explicitly rely on magic to be able to even stand up much less jump around karate-kicking shit |
| 23:53.45 | Mr_Rabies | the Zeon forces have only one type of mobile suit until later on |
| 23:54.22 | Jamash | oh, also they use a neural-link interface, which is the only way you could operate a humanoid combat robot without it falling on its ass every 5 seconds |
| 23:54.46 | Mr_Rabies | VOTOMs sounds like it'd be up your alley though |
| 23:55.02 | Mr_Rabies | as a means to get to gundam later on once you can accept some more suspension of disbelief |
| 23:55.09 | Jamash | heh |
| 23:55.19 | Mr_Rabies | VOTOMs is later on and highly realistic when it comes to mech combat |
| 23:55.22 | Jamash | that's funny |
| 23:55.59 | Jamash | the problem with giant robot science fiction is that giant robots are not science fiction |
| 23:56.02 | Mr_Rabies | this is a 1:1 scale statue of the mech from VOTOMS |
| 23:56.04 | Mr_Rabies | http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2007/08/gundam-cast-iron.jpg |
| 23:56.05 | Jamash | they're fantasy |
| 23:56.20 | Mr_Rabies | they're not very big |
| 23:56.25 | Mr_Rabies | and they barely use their legs |
| 23:56.29 | Jamash | gives the combat robot a light push, and then it falls over |
| 23:56.49 | Mr_Rabies | their legs are more like ways for them to move on stair-like terrain |
| 23:57.02 | Mr_Rabies | they have wheels in their legs they use for movement most of the time |
| 23:57.05 | *** join/#wowuidev vithos (~vith@unaffiliated/vithos) |
| 23:57.14 | Jamash | so basically they're tanks but they have legs for no reason |
| 23:58.34 | Mr_Rabies | they can move on more uneven terrain than tanks |
| 23:58.48 | Mr_Rabies | and they don't really have tank armaments, they're for closer quarters than tanks can do |
| 23:58.49 | Jamash | allow me the following hypothetical: take the same level of technological sophistication necessary to design a humanoid combat robot, and consider how it would perform faced against either tanks or aircraft built with the same level of technological sophistication |
| 23:59.25 | Mr_Rabies | i understand that it's not extremely realistic as an idea, but if you're unwilling to suspend disbelief there's not much fiction out there for you :/ |
