| 04:19.48 | *** join/#wowuidev purl (~purl@rikers.org) |
| 04:19.48 | *** topic/#wowuidev is http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ || 4.1.x ToC: 40100 || #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting || BC Tickets on Sale May 21 and 25th. http://bit.ly/dR0B0R || Mackdombles Derbakerta Pandas Wibcheengs |
| 04:19.53 | cogwheel | ~seen legorol |
| 04:19.53 | purl | legorol <~legorol.s@cpc8-sgyl28-2-0-cust43.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowuidev, 95d 5h 26m 6s ago, saying: 'nicoli_s: nice'. |
| 04:30.31 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 04:35.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 04:38.11 | Ackis | ~seen Fiskerspenis |
| 04:38.13 | purl | i haven't seen 'fiskerspenis', Ackis |
| 04:38.19 | Ackis | nor has anyone else purl |
| 04:39.33 | Kraps | i'm sure some people on chatroulette have |
| 04:40.04 | Nechckn | ^^What Kraps said!!! |
| 04:40.26 | Nechckn | ~cookie Kraps |
| 04:40.45 | Nechckn | That was not for you, purl, you piggy... |
| 04:40.56 | Kraps | purl is teh broken? |
| 04:41.07 | airtonix | you feed it too much |
| 04:46.48 | Kraps | http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1336779/Family-overcome-emulsion-Car-crash-covers-white-paint.html |
| 04:48.50 | Ackis | 123580-000==== |
| 04:49.01 | Ackis | I typed that with my mouse fyi |
| 04:49.06 | Ackis | Kraps: how goes teh rift? |
| 04:49.47 | Kraps | havent played today |
| 04:52.11 | Kraps | i need a windows mod that lets me mark windows to stay on top of others, i have one but its old and crashy |
| 04:54.10 | airtonix | what is it called |
| 04:54.42 | Kraps | http://www.abstractpath.com/powermenu/ |
| 04:54.55 | airtonix | does KatMouse do it ? |
| 04:55.00 | airtonix | or TaekWindow |
| 04:55.15 | Kraps | never heard of those |
| 04:55.28 | airtonix | i use them on windows to get X11 functions but i cant remember if they do the "keep on top" |
| 04:55.58 | airtonix | i know litestep does the keep on top |
| 04:56.13 | airtonix | and i think i had it running on windows7 early last year |
| 04:56.26 | airtonix | but litestep isn't that stable |
| 04:58.26 | DWSR | Is there a way to turn off spam filtering in gmail? |
| 05:01.36 | Kraps | airtonix: does this mean it restores the window to the original or puts it on top? http://ehiti.de/katmouse/screen2.jpg |
| 05:02.18 | airtonix | bring to top on hover |
| 05:03.07 | airtonix | not 'restore z-index on hover' |
| 05:04.11 | airtonix | you might find that windows equiv of gksudo interfered with katmouse or something |
| 05:05.04 | airtonix | or if you're running application layer firewall that also prevents from running, you encounter a problem if you don't already whitelist katmouse |
| 05:09.53 | Kraps | airtonix: http://download.cnet.com/Stay-On-Top/3000-2072_4-10430148.html http://www.actualtools.com/articles/detail.php?ID=920 |
| 05:10.37 | Kraps | oh second link is trial |
| 05:10.41 | airtonix | yeah thats one of the buttons litestep can put in the titlebar of your windows |
| 05:11.36 | airtonix | i'm going to write a C++ program that launches bat files from desktop icons and sell it for 50$ |
| 05:11.42 | airtonix | -_- |
| 05:12.19 | Shirik | good idea |
| 05:12.29 | Shirik | I bet people would buy it |
| 05:12.38 | airtonix | i know they would |
| 05:12.43 | Shirik | especially if you say something like not using it will cause permanent damage to your computer |
| 05:12.46 | Shirik | like the guys on tv |
| 05:12.54 | airtonix | yeah but mainly because it costs 50$ |
| 05:13.02 | airtonix | so it must be good cause it costs money |
| 05:13.36 | airtonix | actually "Enterprise Batch File Launcher" |
| 05:14.08 | airtonix | Shirik: i already patented it |
| 05:14.50 | airtonix | i'm just waiting for windows to become a mainstream desktop operating system |
| 05:15.01 | airtonix | then i can sue |
| 05:26.44 | Kraps | airtonix: the one on cnet looks ok |
| 05:30.45 | airtonix | now you just need one to allow "window rollup on mouse wheel in titlebar" |
| 05:31.00 | airtonix | so you can have multiple windows-on-top but tidy |
| 05:43.07 | airtonix | Cide, Adys, not finished yet, but this is output from my shortcut tool for quickly creating apache virtual hosts : http://dpaste.com/542611/ |
| 05:44.11 | airtonix | i haven't filled out the logic that deals with ldap yet |
| 05:44.29 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@adsl-74-177-26-85.mem.bellsouth.net) |
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| 05:58.41 | mikma | cairenn: http://imgur.com/gallery/AcR5m |
| 05:58.48 | Cairenn | nice |
| 06:05.18 | Trela | NICE. |
| 06:06.23 | Cairenn | I love it, wish I was young enough to get away with doing that to my hair |
| 06:06.58 | airtonix | was it done quickly? i mean it could look alot neater but would take longer? or is just not possible with some hair types? |
| 06:07.07 | mikma | so, who's gonna scream at you now if you do it, cairenn? |
| 06:07.35 | Kraps | http://i.imgur.com/0D433.jpg |
| 06:09.02 | Trela | airtonix: Looks like she has curly hair. A bitch to braid. |
| 06:09.03 | airtonix | lack of browncoats bro |
| 06:09.06 | Cairenn | mikma: you know those ladies that look absolutely ridiculous because they are wearing clothes/hair/makeup/whatever that is way too young for them and they just look stupid? |
| 06:09.44 | Trela | Cairenn: I would fist bump my grandmother if she died her hair pink. |
| 06:09.57 | Cairenn | I'm not /that/ old! jeez |
| 06:10.01 | Cairenn | :p |
| 06:10.07 | airtonix | in private i hope |
| 06:11.50 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 06:12.43 | Trela | XD |
| 06:12.46 | mikma | haste: http://imgur.com/gallery/6oYz1 |
| 06:12.55 | Trela | Sorry, did not mean to imply that! |
| 06:14.41 | mikma | http://pics.kuvaton.com/bshit/minecraftcreepercomic600x694.jpg |
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| 06:22.03 | airtonix | curious creeper is curious |
| 06:23.22 | Kraps | http://i.imgur.com/wRyiE.jpg |
| 06:24.20 | airtonix | your fault for using msn bro |
| 06:30.12 | Fisker | i once killed a guy |
| 06:30.52 | Fisker | i like how MSN crashes IE6 if it gets to load everything |
| 06:33.58 | Shirik | haha |
| 06:34.00 | Shirik | really kraps? |
| 06:34.26 | Kraps | not mine, just saw it imgur |
| 06:34.37 | airtonix | liar |
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| 06:35.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 06:35.40 | Kraps | your mom is a liar |
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| 06:50.36 | Shirik | no u Kraps |
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| 06:56.36 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 06:56.37 | Fisker | umad? |
| 06:57.02 | Fisker | btw yus Adys |
| 06:57.47 | Kraps | i really should go to bed |
| 06:59.30 | Shirik | Ù©(â¢Ì®Ì®Ìâ¢Ì)Û¶ |
| 07:00.31 | Kraps | oh this is the musical episode! |
| 07:00.35 | Kraps | win! |
| 07:00.47 | Fisker | i once killed a guy Shirik |
| 07:00.49 | Fisker | sup Kraps |
| 07:00.53 | Shirik | i know |
| 07:01.05 | Kraps | musical episode of buffy |
| 07:01.42 | Shirik | ew |
| 07:02.55 | Fisker | hey Shirik |
| 07:03.13 | Shirik | are you sick Fisker? |
| 07:03.27 | Arrowmaster | Kraps: after you watch that youll end up looking for more musicals that Anthony Steward Head is in |
| 07:03.42 | Fisker | are you sexy sax man Shirik ? |
| 07:05.12 | Kraps | Arrowmaster: its all their voices right? |
| 07:05.27 | *** join/#wowuidev BWMerlin (~BW~Merlin@CPE-60-226-105-114.qld.bigpond.net.au) |
| 07:06.13 | Arrowmaster | Kraps: yeah afaik they are all singing, but Head is by far the best singer |
| 07:06.58 | Maldivia | then masters |
| 07:09.57 | Fisker | Arrowmaster |
| 07:10.09 | Arrowmaster | Fisker |
| 07:11.07 | Fisker | i'm above the law |
| 07:11.39 | airtonix | how do i stop minecraft from pausing in singleplayer mode when the window loses focus ? |
| 07:12.00 | Fisker | you don't airtonix |
| 07:12.05 | Fisker | unless you kill yourself |
| 07:12.12 | airtonix | oh ok |
| 07:12.15 | kd3 | open up some other interface -- crafting, chest, etc |
| 07:12.23 | airtonix | oh right |
| 07:12.38 | Fisker | hey kd3 |
| 07:12.46 | Fisker | you shouldn't encourage airtonix not to kill himself |
| 07:13.04 | kd3 | it's only fun if we get to see it |
| 07:13.28 | airtonix | Fisker: i'm playing with portals and creepers bro |
| 07:13.31 | airtonix | and zombies |
| 07:13.35 | airtonix | and stuff |
| 07:14.16 | Fisker | ok airtonix |
| 07:14.24 | Fisker | it's always fun kd3 |
| 07:17.05 | airtonix | asdf |
| 07:17.23 | Shirik | you so smexy Fisker |
| 07:19.16 | airtonix | oh yes, shit these portal guns are great for protecting your front foor against spiders and stuff |
| 07:19.17 | kd3 | so, huck didn't do it. wonder who's going to emerge now in the republican race to the bottom? |
| 07:19.50 | Kraps | lulz "the police were taking witness arias" |
| 07:22.53 | Kraps | great rock song by marsters |
| 07:24.34 | Maldivia | have the ticket or mustard songs been there yet ? |
| 07:25.28 | Kraps | the ticket one |
| 07:26.49 | Maldivia | and if you didnt know who was playing her, that would be marti noxon, one of the writers/producers :) |
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| 07:32.31 | kd3 | oh, wow. the encounter journal really does not handle having a bunch of tabs open at once |
| 07:33.10 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (~bluspacec@60-234-165-167.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) |
| 07:33.10 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 07:33.50 | Shirik | hey Fisker |
| 07:38.24 | Kraps | http://www.geeksaresexy.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/applemicrosoft.jpg |
| 07:39.44 | Cairenn | heh |
| 07:47.49 | mikma | well, bill did something right in his life, he started to give his ultimate wealth to donations |
| 07:49.19 | Mr_Rabies | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_and_Melinda_Gates_Foundation has been since at least 1994 :) |
| 07:51.22 | bluspacecow | mmmm free tax credits for corporations that give to charity |
| 07:52.41 | airtonix | a) give 6$mill to tax-office, or 2) garner awesome community attention by giving $6mil to charity and thereby avoiding tax-office ? |
| 07:52.55 | airtonix | any advertising is good advertising |
| 07:53.03 | Mr_Rabies | it's money that otherwise wouldn't be given to charity |
| 07:53.07 | Mr_Rabies | so i'm all for it |
| 07:53.19 | airtonix | free advertising basically |
| 07:54.37 | mikma | problem? V: |
| 07:54.57 | Mr_Rabies | most of the stuff done by the bill and melinda gates foundation is their own personal money |
| 07:56.34 | Mr_Rabies | it's a legitimate charity that does lots of good around the world, and not simply a tax dodge |
| 07:58.51 | Cairenn | and even if it /was/ a tax dodge, it /still/ does a lot of good around the world |
| 08:00.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Joschasa (~Joschasa@p5796BC77.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:01.48 | Kraps | HA! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffy_studies |
| 08:03.34 | bluspacecow | O_o a study of how shapely buffy's ass is I guess |
| 08:05.31 | Kraps | Lorna Jowlett, 2005: Sex and The Slayer: A Gender Studies Primer for the Buffy Fan. <--- this one? |
| 08:06.51 | Kraps | 4:00, bedtime |
| 08:07.12 | airtonix | mikma: https://github.com/brownan/Minecraft-Overviewer/wiki/Quick-Start-Guide |
| 08:07.24 | airtonix | mikma: use that for your map. dead easy and awesome |
| 08:08.00 | mikma | 4 wut map?!?! :D |
| 08:08.11 | airtonix | your minecraft server ? |
| 08:08.19 | mikma | i has 0 mc servers |
| 08:08.23 | airtonix | or was it cogwheel? |
| 08:08.35 | mikma | cockwheel |
| 08:11.53 | airtonix | i wish it had an obituary |
| 08:12.26 | airtonix | i just got assasinated by a creeper after a realyl long and disoerientating portal jump fest |
| 08:12.35 | airtonix | i can't remember where i was on the map |
| 08:17.44 | bluspacecow | F3 ftw |
| 08:20.34 | airtonix | wut |
| 08:20.56 | airtonix | i already left the game and loaded up the map view to try and work out where i was |
| 08:21.06 | bluspacecow | F3 will tell you your co-ords |
| 08:21.19 | bluspacecow | note down the co-ords of your home base and you shouldn't get lost |
| 08:21.35 | airtonix | no i went on a jounery with the portal gun |
| 08:21.56 | airtonix | i had no idea where i was and then i heard a "BOOM" then i was dead and i clicked respawn |
| 08:22.38 | airtonix | so i think my only chance of finding where i was is with the map viewer and looking for creeper explosion signature holes |
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| 08:38.24 | dolby | http://unzip-it.com/ |
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| 09:15.11 | Fisker | kd3 |
| 09:15.12 | Fisker | you there? |
| 09:15.46 | Fisker | slaps kd3 around a bit with a large trout |
| 09:19.52 | bluspacecow | hmmmm |
| 09:20.04 | bluspacecow | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:23.17 | Fisker | hey bluspacecow |
| 09:23.26 | bluspacecow | yeeeees ? |
| 09:25.15 | Fisker | nooooooo |
| 09:25.22 | Fisker | game video settings: ultra |
| 09:25.22 | Fisker | Intel E3400 |
| 09:25.22 | Fisker | 4 GB of Ram @800Mhz |
| 09:25.22 | Fisker | Gigabyte nVidia GT430 1GB of RAM 128 bit |
| 09:25.28 | Fisker | ultra with that shit? |
| 09:25.30 | Fisker | L O L D |
| 09:25.37 | Fisker | must have like 1 FPS in orgrimmar |
| 09:25.39 | bluspacecow | trolololololol |
| 09:31.49 | Fisker | hey bluspacecow |
| 09:32.14 | Torhal | digs a hole into which he throws Fisker and bluspacecow. |
| 09:32.16 | Torhal | Fight! |
| 09:33.31 | Fisker | makes the hole into a black hole |
| 09:33.37 | Fisker | Die Torhal Die |
| 09:33.56 | Torhal | flees |
| 09:41.35 | bluspacecow | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:43.47 | Ycarene | Would you kick a player from an rdf group for not having at least all blues (non-za/zg) |
| 09:44.26 | bluspacecow | rdf ? |
| 09:44.35 | Ycarene | Random Dungeon Finder |
| 09:45.15 | bluspacecow | depends on which instance |
| 09:45.23 | bluspacecow | the RDF is meant to match people with similar gear |
| 09:45.35 | Ycarene | Any of the heroics with the exception of za or zg. |
| 09:47.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Dotted^ (~Dotted@94.191.201.123.bredband.3.dk) |
| 09:47.19 | bluspacecow | IMHO depends on the group gear level and patience of the group involved |
| 09:48.35 | Ycarene | Right but if they're say, ilevel 337 or so, and have, for example, a green trinket, even if you had a similar ilevel, would you kick them for having a green item equipped? |
| 09:49.39 | bluspacecow | did you ask them to equip a better item ? |
| 09:50.01 | bluspacecow | personally i would only kick them if they were a dick |
| 09:50.53 | Ycarene | It more in regards to if I should expect to be kicked I guess. I hit i level 330 and still have some greens. Should I expect hostility? |
| 09:51.11 | bluspacecow | only if you have nitpickers |
| 09:51.25 | bluspacecow | everyone has bad gear on an alt at some point |
| 09:54.05 | Ycarene | Sure, but I'm assuming you might have issues if I got into your random group right? |
| 09:54.23 | bluspacecow | nah |
| 09:54.28 | bluspacecow | see above |
| 09:54.48 | bluspacecow | as long as (a) you're not a collusal dick (b) you're giving it your all i don't mind |
| 09:55.13 | bluspacecow | may have problems if you're not meeting the Min. DPS requirements for the instance but i would try to give tips and help you with that. |
| 09:59.42 | karl_w_w | if the gear they are wearing isn't good enough to meet the minimum requirement I'd kick them |
| 09:59.47 | karl_w_w | but no other reason |
| 09:59.56 | bluspacecow | *shrug* |
| 10:00.02 | bluspacecow | i am a patient and kind man. |
| 10:04.02 | karl_w_w | am I the only person annoyed by people who are quoting a post, but put the quote at the end of their post? |
| 10:04.15 | bluspacecow | yes |
| 10:04.31 | karl_w_w | shocking |
| 10:05.15 | Xinhuan | it comes from email culture, where quoted emails are placed below |
| 10:05.37 | bluspacecow | i've always quoted them above in emails |
| 10:05.42 | nevcairiel | even in emails, top-posting is just ugly |
| 10:06.16 | karl_w_w | its differing with emails thoufgh |
| 10:06.35 | karl_w_w | most of the time it's going to be pretty obvious who and what you're replying to |
| 10:06.38 | Xinhuan | its different in emails because the quoted email could be pages long, and nobody wants to scroll through 15 pages to reach your message |
| 10:06.48 | Xinhuan | but forum text is usually 1-2 paras |
| 10:06.54 | karl_w_w | that too |
| 10:06.55 | nevcairiel | well, lets specify this - on mailing lists, i would never top-post, i would treat them like a forum. If i just reply to someone, i just write my reply :p |
| 10:06.56 | Adys | Fisker |
| 10:07.16 | nevcairiel | Xinhuan: so you cut out the parts you specifically reply to |
| 10:07.31 | nevcairiel | if i quote a forum post, i also shorten it to only have the part i reply to in it |
| 10:07.43 | Xinhuan | thats arguable, and depends on the purpose of the email |
| 10:07.51 | Xinhuan | if i email tech support, they always want the full email quoted |
| 10:08.22 | Xinhuan | and for business correspondence, i suspect that's generally the case too |
| 10:08.26 | nevcairiel | thats a rather special case, they are just compensating for lack of useful tools on their end |
| 10:08.57 | Xinhuan | well, do you think there's more private emails or business emails on the web today? |
| 10:11.09 | karl_w_w | business |
| 10:11.13 | nevcairiel | thats not the point, i still hate it when people do full top posts. So i ask someone 3 questions, and they write the answers into one big text blob .. it would be way easier if they quote a single question, answer that one, and then the next, etc. :p |
| 10:11.52 | karl_w_w | isnt it like 85% of emails are spam? |
| 10:12.57 | nevcairiel | You cannot compare business emails with a forum anyway. Compare a public discussion mailing list with a forum. :p |
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| 10:34.14 | bluspacecow | ..... |
| 10:34.28 | bluspacecow | that would have to be my favourite dr who episode so far |
| 10:34.51 | Alram | yes |
| 10:35.00 | Alram | it was fucking incredible batshit insane |
| 10:35.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Momro (~Miranda@HSI-KBW-109-192-043-161.hsi6.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 10:35.38 | bluspacecow | neil gaimen's work if i'm not mistaken |
| 10:36.58 | Alram | yup |
| 10:39.00 | Adys | bluspacecow: ya it was awesome |
| 10:39.01 | Adys | and yes |
| 10:39.20 | bluspacecow | interesting |
| 10:39.25 | Adys | Alram, bluspacecow: am i the only one who thought "Glados" when amy and rory were in the tunnels with his voice? |
| 10:39.38 | Alram | yes |
| 10:39.40 | bluspacecow | does this mean neil gaimen has gotten to write dr who cannon now ? |
| 10:39.47 | Alram | yes |
| 10:40.14 | Adys | Alram: yes as in im the only one or yes as in you thought it too |
| 10:40.35 | Alram | only one |
| 10:40.37 | Alram | sorry |
| 10:40.39 | Momro | Hello everyone. I'd like to ask two wow addon programming related questions. Is this the right place to do so? ;-p |
| 10:40.42 | Adys | get out. |
| 10:40.50 | Adys | Momro: dont ask to ask, just ask |
| 10:40.56 | Momro | kk |
| 10:41.06 | Momro | a) How do I split an addon? I have some functions which work and I'd like to put them in a seperate file. I know I need to insert all included file names into the .toc file, but how does the main Lua know where to find outsourced functions? |
| 10:41.57 | bluspacecow | well they answered a question i posed with a friend last week : can a male time lord regenerate as female ? |
| 10:41.58 | bluspacecow | http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Corsair |
| 10:42.13 | bluspacecow | spoilers for those who haven't seen it yet |
| 10:42.19 | bluspacecow | the Dr's wife that us |
| 10:42.42 | Adys | Momro: you want to register your functions at an addon-namespace level. for that, the proper way is to register a table at your addon namespace and have your functions as methods of that table |
| 10:42.46 | Maldivia | Momro: everything that isn't defined local is accessible to every file in every addon |
| 10:43.18 | Adys | or you can do what Maldivia said which is less work but uglier :P |
| 10:43.37 | Adys | also Maldivia tell me you thought glados too =( |
| 10:43.39 | Momro | hehe, I like a "less work" solution atm |
| 10:43.50 | Adys | Momro: it's not that much more work |
| 10:43.51 | Maldivia | Adys: really enjoyed it |
| 10:44.01 | Maldivia | Adys: and not so much caroline ad idris :) |
| 10:44.05 | Maldivia | as* |
| 10:44.06 | airtonix | bluspacecow: i lost my portal gun :< |
| 10:44.09 | Momro | I'm struggling with easier stuff, I think ;-p |
| 10:44.15 | airtonix | bloody jihad creepers |
| 10:44.18 | Adys | Maldivia: you mean... coraline! |
| 10:44.19 | Adys | DUN DUN DUN |
| 10:44.20 | bluspacecow | @airtonix lolz |
| 10:44.36 | Momro | I'll just stick to this and come back to better solutions when my knowledge of Lua/WoW API will be better :-) |
| 10:44.42 | Adys | Momro: each addon passes a table in the "..." variable |
| 10:44.47 | Adys | so basically what you want is this |
| 10:44.51 | bluspacecow | wtf ? |
| 10:44.57 | bluspacecow | they made a whole series |
| 10:45.00 | bluspacecow | about K9 ? |
| 10:45.03 | bluspacecow | *boggle* |
| 10:45.05 | Maldivia | Adys: really loved the dialog when they were rebuilding |
| 10:45.45 | bluspacecow | "700 years and now you ask for me name o_O" |
| 10:46.02 | Adys | Momro: http://paste2.org/p/1417042 |
| 10:46.08 | bluspacecow | http://www.k9official.com/ |
| 10:46.11 | Momro | Ah, aha. But ... I don't even know how to ... arrrr! |
| 10:46.16 | bluspacecow | http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/K9_(TV_series) |
| 10:46.16 | Adys | Maldivia: DW confidential was pretty awesome too |
| 10:46.23 | bluspacecow | wait |
| 10:46.24 | Maldivia | Adys: yeah |
| 10:46.26 | bluspacecow | it was ? |
| 10:46.30 | Adys | ya |
| 10:46.35 | Adys | I loved the tardis flashbacks :) |
| 10:46.48 | bluspacecow | oh my |
| 10:47.00 | bluspacecow | i must watch that as well |
| 10:47.24 | Adys | and I have a mentalist and bbt ep to catch up on |
| 10:47.49 | Adys | season finales for both this week |
| 10:48.34 | Maldivia | it's season finale for about everything... series for smallville, and also all the shows that are cancelled (quite a lot) |
| 10:49.10 | Maldivia | but yay!!! happy endings was renewed... my new favorite comedy :) |
| 10:49.22 | Adys | i may have to check that out |
| 10:49.38 | Adys | i still have breakout kings and himym to check out first |
| 10:49.50 | Cairenn | I'm enjoying Breakout Kings |
| 10:50.02 | jnwhiteh | haven't heard of breakout kings |
| 10:50.08 | Adys | new psych season this fall, burn notice on june 23rd and white collar on june 7th <3 |
| 10:50.25 | Adys | Cairenn: from what amro told me, if you like breakout kings you'd love white collar |
| 10:50.29 | Maldivia | I have breakout kings on my list to check out as well, but I don't even have time enough for the shows I'm currently following |
| 10:50.56 | Cairenn | I've been watching Breakout Kings, Blue Bloods, Rookie Blue |
| 10:51.46 | Cairenn | ummm, oh yeah, catching up on Castle, and King, and ... crap, what's the name ... |
| 10:52.01 | bluspacecow | Doctor Who |
| 10:52.05 | bluspacecow | Coronation Street |
| 10:52.15 | Adys | friends? |
| 10:52.29 | Cairenn | shit ... what's the name? ... female CIA agent, chickie that played the lead in Coyote Ugly |
| 10:52.43 | Cairenn | grrr |
| 10:52.48 | bluspacecow | Grrr? |
| 10:52.53 | mikma | imdb.com |
| 10:52.53 | bluspacecow | funny name for a tv series |
| 10:52.54 | Maldivia | covert affairs? |
| 10:52.54 | Cairenn | hate it when I have a brain fart |
| 10:52.57 | Adys | grrr sounds like every woman |
| 10:53.02 | Cairenn | that's it, thanks Maldivia |
| 10:53.04 | Adys | and yeah covert affairs |
| 10:53.08 | Adys | thanks google |
| 10:53.12 | Cairenn | Adys: only in your wildest dreams *bite* |
| 10:53.12 | Adys | https://encrypted.google.com/search?&ie=UTF-8&q=female+CIA+agent%2C+chickie+that+played+the+lead+in+Coyote+Ugly |
| 10:53.22 | Cairenn | lol |
| 10:53.58 | Maldivia | Adys: you could have tried asking purl ? :) |
| 10:54.08 | zenzelezz | an image search for "grrr" doesn't turn up that many women |
| 10:54.11 | Adys | purl: would you have known? |
| 10:54.35 | Maldivia | doesn't purl have a google search feature? |
| 10:54.37 | Adys | zenzelezz: are you sure? https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_-yGwLux_BRA/R0Sz0XighsI/AAAAAAAABEY/pr3LL_bq1sg/BRINGDOWNTHEHAMMMEERRRRR.jpg |
| 10:55.01 | bluspacecow | oh my |
| 10:55.01 | zenzelezz | there were some, sure, but not many |
| 10:55.05 | zenzelezz | more dogs and cartoons |
| 10:55.17 | bluspacecow | i thought it would be an image of ban hammer :| |
| 10:55.22 | Adys | maybe google tries real hard not to be sexist |
| 10:56.16 | Adys | the best part about following series is when you discover you have unwatched episodes. |
| 10:56.18 | zenzelezz | this was one result for "grrr women": http://img.golivewire.com/ib/421562_t.jpg |
| 10:56.52 | Adys | i remember after rewatching seinfeld i discovered i had an entire unwatched season |
| 10:56.52 | Adys | <3 |
| 10:57.40 | zenzelezz | speaking of which, going to see Seinfeld live in about a month... hope he's still got the talent |
| 10:57.56 | Adys | nice, where? |
| 10:58.05 | zenzelezz | Oslo, Norway |
| 10:58.13 | zenzelezz | he's doing some sort of tour I believe |
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| 11:10.41 | mikma | xinhuan: kk |
| 11:19.12 | Torhal | Adys: Huh? The Mentalist still has two episodes to go, unless there's a non-US version you're speaking of. |
| 11:19.23 | Adys | Yep |
| 11:19.29 | Adys | and they're both on the 19th |
| 11:19.48 | Torhal | Ah, I thought you meant you had the finale and still needed to watch it |
| 11:20.13 | Adys | no, I just missed the ep from the 5th |
| 11:20.21 | Torhal | I'm still WTFing over the Fringe season finale |
| 11:20.54 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 11:26.30 | *** join/#wowuidev ZorbaTHut (tocohl@maximilian.pavlovian.net) |
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| 11:38.34 | airtonix | hello Torhal |
| 11:38.44 | airtonix | fringe turned into sux |
| 11:39.29 | airtonix | it's like the main writer left after season 1 and they were standing around with the trainees that picked up the genius crumbs |
| 11:39.59 | airtonix | cept they thought it was lint so they put it in the bin |
| 11:40.31 | airtonix | obbviously lube deprived |
| 11:41.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys_ (~Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 11:48.25 | Adys | Cairenn: http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2011/05/threetoed-sloth-cross-road/ |
| 11:49.10 | Cairenn | oh god, it's gonna die! |
| 11:49.28 | Cairenn | poor little thing |
| 11:49.38 | Adys | i'm not Fisker :P |
| 11:50.08 | Cairenn | awww, that was sweet of them! |
| 11:50.26 | Cairenn | probably scared the poor thing shitless, but at least it didn't get smooshed |
| 11:51.03 | Cairenn | (and no, you aren't Fisker *hug*) |
| 11:51.06 | Adys | :P |
| 11:55.56 | bluspacecow | but is fisker a sloth ? |
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| 12:03.59 | airtonix | he speaks too much for a sloth |
| 12:08.13 | Cairenn | all teasing aside, Fisker wouldn't be so mean as to link me a video in which an animal dies |
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| 12:12.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Kivnel (Kivnel@aux.jmctech.com.au) |
| 12:15.34 | Momro | is the .toc file also reloaded when I do a /reload ? |
| 12:17.45 | Maldivia | no |
| 12:17.52 | Maldivia | well, yeah, but it wont recognize new files |
| 12:18.05 | Momro | Ah, ok, perfect answer. 100 points for you ;-p |
| 12:18.37 | Maldivia | adding a new file requires a restart of the client for it to notice it |
| 12:19.06 | Momro | kk, I already thought so |
| 12:19.56 | Cairenn | however, if you put in a dummy file with the correct name, and then do a reload after you've put in the actual content, I /believe/ that will work without a complete restart |
| 12:20.15 | Cairenn | although it's been a while so I'm not positive any more |
| 12:20.16 | Maldivia | that'll work, yeah |
| 12:20.22 | *** join/#wowuidev robokitty (~roboe@50A2E64B.flatrate.dk) |
| 12:20.55 | Cairenn | so make a dummy file with the name you want, have it referred to in your .toc, then ^^ |
| 12:20.55 | Momro | hehe |
| 12:21.14 | Momro | Ok, I just wanted a quick information about the general process of WoW loading the toc file ;-) |
| 12:22.20 | Momro | Hm, I wonder how localization is done. I can't save all the translations in global variables, and I don't understand tables in Lua, yet. And I don't need Ace up to now. Any easy solutions available? ;-p |
| 12:23.13 | ZorbaTHut | first, learn tables. :) |
| 12:23.35 | AcidWeb | It is quite easy but you will need tables ;] |
| 12:23.43 | Momro | HrHr |
| 12:23.45 | Momro | Damn! |
| 12:24.07 | ZorbaTHut | a common way of doing this is to make a Translate function that, in English, just returns the string you passed in, but in (other language), looks that string up in a translation table |
| 12:24.18 | ZorbaTHut | i.e. print(Translate("Your sound card works perfectly!")) |
| 12:25.32 | Momro | Ah, aha, ok. That's an interesting idea. But I guess I'll have to get along with tables ... Looks like I can't avoid *that* ;-p |
| 12:25.33 | Momro | But it's "tables after luch" - thank you all very much for your help, by the way. You're great :-) |
| 12:25.40 | Momro | lunch* |
| 12:25.45 | Cairenn | :) |
| 12:26.06 | airtonix | Cairenn: yeah trolls don't roll like that |
| 12:26.56 | Cairenn | as much as some of you may drive me bonkers some days, you're all better than to do something like that to me :) |
| 12:28.21 | ZorbaTHut | also I still have no idea why blizzard is so paranoid about .toc files |
| 12:28.29 | ZorbaTHut | just reload the dang thing when the UI reloads |
| 12:31.25 | *** join/#wowuidev robokitten (~roboe@50A2E64B.flatrate.dk) |
| 12:32.46 | zenzelezz | I was going to say you could use that to get new data into WoW, but then you can just edit the existing files that way |
| 12:37.58 | cbreak | http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/13/idUSN0926046420110513 |
| 12:38.34 | jnwhiteh | ZorbaTHut: its not paranoia |
| 12:38.39 | jnwhiteh | and the toc IS re-parsed on re-load |
| 12:38.42 | jnwhiteh | so I'm not sure what you're talking about |
| 12:38.51 | jnwhiteh | the only thing that isn't re-parsed is the meta-data |
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| 12:55.03 | Fisker | hey jnwhiteh |
| 12:55.07 | Fisker | creeper world 2 |
| 12:55.07 | Fisker | do it |
| 12:55.19 | ZorbaTHut | jnwhiteh, well either it's paranoia, laziness, or incompetence, so I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt here :P I haven't come up with a good reason *not* to allow new files to be loaded |
| 12:55.30 | ZorbaTHut | and, for that matter, a good reason not to let people install entire new UI mods without shutting down the entire client |
| 12:55.54 | jnwhiteh | its just the way their engine is set up |
| 12:55.59 | jnwhiteh | but that has nothing to do with the .TOC at all. |
| 12:56.18 | jnwhiteh | it has to do with the fact that all filenames are hashed when the client is open and those are the only files that can be loaded. |
| 12:56.18 | ZorbaTHut | it doesn't seem difficult to solve. it hasn't even loaded addon code at the login screen, changing which code to load at that point shouldn't be a problem |
| 12:56.39 | ZorbaTHut | yes, I know *what* it does. what I'm saying is that I can't think of a good reason why. |
| 12:56.47 | jnwhiteh | because it does =) |
| 12:56.53 | ZorbaTHut | that's not a reason why :) |
| 12:56.54 | jnwhiteh | why is every mechanism in WoW a spell, because that's how it is |
| 12:57.02 | jnwhiteh | yes it is, they're dealign with code that was written in 2001 |
| 12:57.11 | jnwhiteh | and their effort could be spent rewriting it, or writing new things |
| 12:57.16 | ZorbaTHut | code can be rewritten or modified. removing the hash limitation should be trivial. |
| 12:57.17 | jnwhiteh | its called legacy code, and it stays in =) |
| 12:57.21 | jnwhiteh | and that takes time |
| 12:57.25 | jnwhiteh | time that gains them no effort |
| 12:57.25 | ZorbaTHut | and for some reason they originally implemented that |
| 12:57.26 | jnwhiteh | err |
| 12:57.28 | jnwhiteh | gains them nothing |
| 12:57.33 | jnwhiteh | what do they get out of it |
| 12:57.34 | ZorbaTHut | I still don't know why they implemented it in the first place, and that's what I'm curious about |
| 12:57.39 | ZorbaTHut | why did they think it was a good idea from day one? |
| 12:57.43 | jnwhiteh | I doubt those people are even involved |
| 12:57.54 | jnwhiteh | I can come up with a few ideas, but obviously I don't know |
| 12:58.01 | jnwhiteh | but again, that has nothing to do with the .toc file =) |
| 12:58.02 | ZorbaTHut | also, it gains them goodwill and a happier mod development community ;) |
| 12:58.17 | karl_w_w | they didnt think at all, they just said "we're going to need to load some files, let's do it this way" |
| 12:58.37 | jnwhiteh | ZorbaTHut: there are about 33,000 things they could do that would give them more of that instead of this |
| 12:58.54 | jnwhiteh | I've run into it being a problem maybe twice |
| 12:59.00 | Fisker | every freaking PTR jnwhiteh |
| 12:59.02 | karl_w_w | most people don't solve most problems until they encounter them |
| 12:59.14 | ZorbaTHut | karl, yeah, I think that's a bad idea also |
| 12:59.20 | ZorbaTHut | the easiest time to solve problems is before they're problems |
| 12:59.25 | jnwhiteh | also, Firefox requires you to restart Firefox when you install an addon |
| 12:59.29 | jnwhiteh | why is that a requirement? |
| 12:59.40 | ZorbaTHut | because firefox loads the entire addon environment when the program starts |
| 12:59.49 | ZorbaTHut | it's impossible to be running firefox and *not* running all the addons |
| 12:59.50 | jnwhiteh | and Wow's doesn't? |
| 12:59.52 | ZorbaTHut | no, it doesn't |
| 12:59.58 | jnwhiteh | do you know for a fact that you can't write Glue addons? |
| 13:00.10 | jnwhiteh | That there isn't a capability that isn't exposed to us that causes this limitation to exist? |
| 13:00.11 | jnwhiteh | =) |
| 13:00.28 | *** join/#wowuidev ZorbaBeta (tocohl@maximilian.pavlovian.net) |
| 13:00.32 | cbreak | afaik, blizz themselves can write glue addons |
| 13:00.38 | ZorbaBeta | whee disconnect |
| 13:00.40 | jnwhiteh | then there's your answer |
| 13:00.54 | Maldivia | we were able to write glue code previously |
| 13:00.58 | bluspacecow | a star whale ? |
| 13:01.08 | ZorbaBeta | we know the lua environment is rebooted when you log out/log in, and we know that there's a command that does it already |
| 13:01.16 | jnwhiteh | ZorbaBeta: for the addon system |
| 13:01.17 | ZorbaBeta | that could easily be the time when the addon list and file list are refreshed |
| 13:01.19 | jnwhiteh | what about Glue addons |
| 13:01.30 | cbreak | but as you surely know, a single program can have a number of independent lua_States |
| 13:01.33 | jnwhiteh | you're thinking in your little world, but the world is bigger than that. |
| 13:01.42 | bluspacecow | @jn needs to be used with sniff addons |
| 13:02.10 | jnwhiteh | Blizzard can write secure addons. They can write GlueXML and we can't. It stands to reason that Blizzard can write a secure addon that loads at login, before you claim "anything" is done |
| 13:02.13 | *** join/#wowuidev ZorbaGama (tocohl@maximilian.pavlovian.net) |
| 13:02.23 | ZorbaGama | huh, apparently I'm having some network problems |
| 13:02.24 | jnwhiteh | ZorbaGama: Blizzard can write secure addons. They can write GlueXML and we can't. It stands to reason that Blizzard can write a secure addon that loads at login, before you claim "anything" is done |
| 13:02.43 | jnwhiteh | If those systems aren't separate (they aren't) then there's your limitation |
| 13:03.10 | ZorbaGama | jnwhiteh, it's somewhat irrelevant that there is a point at which lua *can* run. as I said, we know, for a fact, that the addon lua environment is shut down and restarted at certain times, or at the very least, that the private table containing addons is shut down and rebooted |
| 13:03.19 | ZorbaGama | at those points, the list of addons could be reset |
| 13:03.22 | jnwhiteh | *could* |
| 13:03.27 | jnwhiteh | no one is disputing that |
| 13:04.24 | karl_w_w | "you need 25% hit as a pally, because the Light is blinding and it makes you miss more" ahh trade, you old jokester |
| 13:04.33 | jnwhiteh | so based on the fact that no one is disputing that, you were asking about why the limitation might exist in the first place, and we've give you a few ideas of why that migh tbe. |
| 13:05.17 | ZorbaGama | *shrug* I still don't think it makes sense. if there's a point where users can turn mods on or off - which there is - then reloading the list of mods at that point wouldn't be difficult at all. |
| 13:05.29 | jnwhiteh | of course its not difficult |
| 13:05.34 | jnwhiteh | but that screen didn't exist when the system was implemented.. |
| 13:05.47 | jnwhiteh | WoW pre-release was quite different |
| 13:05.55 | jnwhiteh | and that's when the bulk of this code was written by Slouken |
| 13:06.16 | Fisker | jnwhiteh please |
| 13:06.20 | Fisker | every freaking PTR :( |
| 13:10.15 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 13:13.22 | olafski | does anyone have a list of stat priorities or something for bear druids? :$ I can't really find one |
| 13:14.01 | jnwhiteh | wowhead has weights |
| 13:14.08 | jnwhiteh | you can use those and it'll give you a good idea |
| 13:15.06 | olafski | they value stamina and armor above everything else :S that can't be up to date? |
| 13:15.17 | olafski | maybe I'm misinterpreting though |
| 13:15.32 | olafski | it says stamina 100, armor 75.. does that mean 2 points of armor would be higher than 1 stamina? |
| 13:16.48 | jnwhiteh | you can look at EJ or mmo-champion |
| 13:16.58 | jnwhiteh | I suspect you'll find they agree |
| 13:17.12 | olafski | nothing on EJ.. I guess I'll check mmoc :) but still it seems odd to value 1 point of armor so highly |
| 13:17.20 | Adys | [13:59:16] <@jnwhiteh> also, Firefox requires you to restart Firefox when you install an addon |
| 13:17.20 | Adys | [13:59:20] <@jnwhiteh> why is that a requirement? |
| 13:17.24 | Adys | because firefox is BS |
| 13:17.32 | jnwhiteh | Adys: it was an example |
| 13:17.36 | jnwhiteh | and I got the appropriate response =) |
| 13:17.53 | Adys | the thing is it's a terrible example given that it proves Zorba's point :P |
| 13:17.58 | jnwhiteh | no it doesn't. |
| 13:18.01 | Adys | its a terrible thing to have to restart the browser to install an addon |
| 13:18.07 | jnwhiteh | he said its that way because the system is initialised and hooked into at that point |
| 13:18.17 | Adys | i mean on a design level |
| 13:18.18 | jnwhiteh | there is absolutely nothing to say that isn't the case for WoW addons, and we cited reasons why this might be |
| 13:18.19 | Adys | not a technical level |
| 13:18.26 | jnwhiteh | and could firefox be rewritte to fix that |
| 13:18.28 | jnwhiteh | yes it could |
| 13:18.29 | jnwhiteh | as could WoW |
| 13:18.33 | jnwhiteh | so the point remains =) |
| 13:18.41 | Adys | i *really* dont care about wow's addon loading system :P |
| 13:18.44 | ZorbaGama | actually, in firefox's case, they'd have to break the entire addon api in order to do so |
| 13:18.47 | ZorbaGama | in wow's case, they wouldn't |
| 13:18.56 | ZorbaGama | note that chrome *doesn't* require that because chrome's addon api works differently |
| 13:19.00 | Adys | but i know firefox pissed me off thousands of times by requiring me to restart the browser |
| 13:19.03 | jnwhiteh | yes, of course it does |
| 13:19.37 | Adys | and ZorbaGama, dont give excuses to poor front-end design |
| 13:19.38 | Adys | ever |
| 13:19.50 | jnwhiteh | HoN brb. |
| 13:19.55 | ZorbaGama | adys, eh, I think the firefox/chrome decision is an example of a difficult tradeoff |
| 13:20.12 | ZorbaGama | the firefox model means that you need to reboot the entire UI in order to add/remove addons, but it also gives those addons a lot more power |
| 13:20.19 | ZorbaGama | the chrome model means that you don't, but it restricts things substantially further |
| 13:20.40 | Adys | it means chrome has it easy when enabling a new addon |
| 13:20.46 | Adys | it does NOT mean the browser has to be restarted |
| 13:21.21 | ZorbaGama | well, firefox's model means that all windows need to be re-opened |
| 13:21.26 | ZorbaGama | at that point you may as well restart the entire browser |
| 13:21.29 | foxlit | olafski: meh, "priorities" |
| 13:21.30 | Adys | the very issue with restarting the browser is that every tab reloads, every youtube video you have running is re-downloaded and re-ran, every login screen reappears |
| 13:21.41 | ZorbaGama | I don't care whether the .exe reboots or not, I care about restarting my windows :P |
| 13:21.46 | foxlit | agility is good, stamina is good, avoidance ratings are good. Reforge haste to dodge; done. |
| 13:21.48 | Adys | and that could be solved by freezing their state |
| 13:22.03 | ZorbaGama | that's the problem, though - the state depends on the addons |
| 13:22.17 | airtonix | why should it |
| 13:22.21 | Adys | not always and no |
| 13:22.24 | ZorbaGama | if I have noscript running, what gets frozen, the "original" state that never existed in the first place because noscript intercepted it, or the modified noscripted state? |
| 13:22.28 | Adys | if you install something like adblock |
| 13:22.29 | airtonix | they should be smart enough not to latch onto that |
| 13:22.37 | ZorbaGama | and if it's the latter, and I disable noscript, then how do I then display the original page? |
| 13:22.39 | Adys | sure, you'd have to reload the open tabs to see it running int hat tab |
| 13:22.40 | Adys | HOWEVER |
| 13:22.49 | Adys | that is NOT a force-restart of the browser |
| 13:22.55 | Adys | and it's the SAME WAY on chrome |
| 13:23.18 | Adys | addons can interact with the page and theres no way to smoothly enable/disable them on a single page |
| 13:23.21 | Adys | thats an OK tradeoff |
| 13:23.32 | Adys | a restart of the browser reloads every.single.tab you have open which is insane |
| 13:23.48 | Adys | i know i have to restart chrome every time i deal with new flags and that's annoying enough as it is |
| 13:23.49 | ZorbaGama | I believe chrome's model requires that all addons go through a restrictive API which means it literally can undo the changes the addon made |
| 13:23.58 | Adys | no |
| 13:24.02 | ZorbaGama | but that's also why chrome's noscript/adblock isn't as capable as firefox's |
| 13:24.02 | Adys | that has nothing to do with it |
| 13:24.26 | Adys | firefox addons are less restricted when it comes to firefox's ui |
| 13:24.32 | Adys | and that is why the browser has to be restarted |
| 13:24.36 | Adys | because the ui has to be rebuilt |
| 13:24.43 | Adys | however thats no excuse |
| 13:24.49 | Adys | the ui can be rebuilt without restarting the browser |
| 13:25.04 | Adys | you freeze every tab and save their state, you destroy the ui and rebuild it |
| 13:25.14 | Adys | all the user sees is a flash |
| 13:25.24 | Adys | but tabs are not reloaded |
| 13:25.28 | ZorbaGama | I don't think it's that simple, thanks to "their state" being highly nontrivial |
| 13:25.35 | Adys | yes, mozilla's fault |
| 13:25.51 | Adys | it bit them hard in the ass when they had to recode them for sandboxing |
| 13:25.52 | ZorbaGama | but, again, it's mozilla's fault because they give addons the capability to change whatever they want |
| 13:25.54 | ZorbaGama | that's why it's nontrivial :P |
| 13:26.53 | Adys | the fact the browser has to be restarted is NOT a consequence of their API |
| 13:27.00 | Adys | its a consequence of poor ground-up design |
| 13:27.11 | Adys | the API could live as it is and browser wouldnt have to be restarted |
| 13:27.37 | ZorbaGama | I don't agree, I think what you're suggesting would be nigh-impossible with the API in its current state |
| 13:27.42 | ZorbaGama | at least, without breaking addons left and right |
| 13:27.43 | Adys | oh yeah? |
| 13:28.04 | Adys | you know when i last had this convo? three years ago when some guy was defending windows' "you just installed acrobat reader, you gotta reboot" BS |
| 13:28.28 | ZorbaGama | honestly, that decision made a vague amount of sense fifteen years ago as well |
| 13:28.28 | cbreak | the problem is: lua does not offer any facility of unloading |
| 13:28.30 | Adys | and that is a much, *much* more defendable case |
| 13:28.39 | cbreak | windows however does |
| 13:28.43 | ZorbaGama | this isn't fifteen years ago anymore, so it's really dumb now, and should be changed (hopefully has? :P) |
| 13:28.48 | Adys | we're not talking about lua cbreak |
| 13:28.48 | cbreak | applications run in their own memory space |
| 13:29.03 | cbreak | addons? |
| 13:29.08 | Adys | firefox addons |
| 13:29.17 | Adys | which have near-unlimited power on the browser |
| 13:29.31 | Adys | and thanks to their BS design, some power on the filesystem too (ugh) |
| 13:29.34 | cbreak | they are also loaded in a singular addres space |
| 13:29.43 | Adys | oh would you fucking stop defending this |
| 13:29.44 | cbreak | they can't easily be unloaded |
| 13:29.56 | cbreak | because there's no concept of separation between them |
| 13:30.06 | cbreak | it's like ancient pre-security OS |
| 13:30.17 | Adys | i don't bloody want to hear *why* it's done this way; I know it's possible to do it otherwise and that's the way it should be |
| 13:30.38 | Adys | poor design, concepts that made sense in the past, bad choices, tradeoffs with consequences, laziness |
| 13:30.39 | cbreak | you'd have to do it like google with chrome |
| 13:30.44 | Adys | NONE of those are good excuses |
| 13:31.05 | Adys | the only possible excuse is "there's nobody who's had the balls to do it right yet" |
| 13:31.06 | cbreak | have plugins in their own address space, and only communicate with an api |
| 13:31.21 | ZorbaGama | personally I don't agree it should have been done a different way, I think the added power of firefox plugins is worth the relatively small amount of bother |
| 13:31.22 | cbreak | I don't think the lack of balls is hte problem |
| 13:31.25 | cbreak | it's the lack of time |
| 13:31.33 | Momro | Go for Chrome, that's the most secure browser ;-p |
| 13:31.39 | cbreak | because rewriting old, ingrained code is hard |
| 13:31.45 | Adys | cbreak: thats my point; firefox fails due to that |
| 13:31.50 | cbreak | because there's so many interdependencies |
| 13:31.50 | Adys | its one of its many flaws |
| 13:32.01 | cbreak | I don't consider it a huge drawback |
| 13:32.06 | cbreak | I don't particularly mind it |
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| 13:32.19 | Adys | i dont hit on browsers just for the heck of it, but all I hear from their users are excuses |
| 13:32.20 | cbreak | the lack of security that results from it is more anoying than having to restart firefox |
| 13:32.22 | Adys | not features, excuses |
| 13:32.41 | Adys | "its been around for ten years so its OKAY that it's not as good as the competition" |
| 13:33.00 | Adys | aol has been around longer than gmail too |
| 13:33.21 | cbreak | I heard people still use it |
| 13:33.22 | Adys | and as i said before, ZorbaGama, the api is not a direct cause of the "lets restart" mechanism |
| 13:33.22 | Momro | Although AOL is something completely different than Google ;-p |
| 13:33.49 | cbreak | AOL had email long before google existed |
| 13:34.08 | cbreak | they even had their own world wide web imitation walled garden thing before google existed |
| 13:34.12 | Adys | it's an indirect cause in the sense that it does make it more complex to load new addons without restarting the browser |
| 13:34.32 | Adys | but its no direct cause in the sense that addons COULD have that sort of power without having to restart the browser |
| 13:34.38 | Adys | and in fact |
| 13:34.43 | Momro | o.O |
| 13:34.56 | Adys | browser should freeze their tab states to disk when they close down, imho |
| 13:35.00 | Momro | Yeah, well, email existed somewhat 15 years before aol as well |
| 13:35.08 | ZorbaGama | I don't believe they could. With the Firefox (and WoW) models, you can hook the functions of other addons |
| 13:35.12 | ZorbaGama | there's no sane way to roll this back |
| 13:35.19 | Adys | as i said |
| 13:35.26 | cbreak | Adys: firefox does that |
| 13:35.28 | ZorbaGama | but that is an important source of capability |
| 13:35.31 | Adys | cbreak: no it doesn't. |
| 13:35.35 | cbreak | it does for me |
| 13:35.41 | ZorbaGama | I've used this in wow addons myself, frequently, and I know there are firefox addons that take that same approach |
| 13:35.44 | cbreak | when I start firefox, all tabs and windows get restored |
| 13:35.54 | Adys | thats saving an url to disk |
| 13:35.55 | ZorbaGama | chrome doesn't support this and it takes some moddability hits from it |
| 13:36.01 | Adys | not freezing a session state |
| 13:36.15 | cbreak | it also restores window position and content of fields |
| 13:36.26 | Adys | that is not tab state. |
| 13:36.44 | cbreak | it does not restore session cookies obviously, nor does it restore other ephemeral state such as the state of running java script |
| 13:36.46 | Adys | actually it is but saving forms is a feature by itself |
| 13:36.51 | Momro | Zorba, that's definitly wrong |
| 13:37.04 | Adys | ZorbaGama: freeze tab, destroy interface, clean it full out, rebuild it from ground up while loading all addons |
| 13:37.07 | Adys | and voila |
| 13:37.15 | Adys | you got something that doesnt restart all your shit |
| 13:37.22 | Adys | and yes, there is a flicker |
| 13:37.33 | cbreak | I don't think that's good design |
| 13:37.34 | Adys | which you can hide with clever smokescreens |
| 13:37.48 | Adys | cbreak: you're right, good design is what google did with chrome |
| 13:37.50 | cbreak | if you want to be able to unload/reload addons, just don't put them into the same memory space as the UI |
| 13:38.08 | cbreak | then there's no need to somehow serialize the whole rest state |
| 13:38.08 | ZorbaGama | adys, "freeze tab" is the part I'm saying is extraordinarily difficult |
| 13:38.08 | Adys | this has nothing to do with memory space |
| 13:38.10 | Adys | ... |
| 13:38.16 | Adys | ZorbaGama: sure |
| 13:38.17 | cbreak | it's a side effect |
| 13:38.36 | Adys | cbreak: so is Fisker's boner and we're not talking about it |
| 13:38.50 | cbreak | being in the same memory space means that the API is not as cleanly cut |
| 13:38.53 | Adys | ZorbaGama: it's difficult but i do believe browsers should do that |
| 13:39.28 | Adys | cbreak: this has *nothing* to do with memory space. it has to do with the fact the UI has to be redrawn and it's easier to say "just restart your damn browser" than implement the code that destroys and redraws that UI properly |
| 13:39.44 | cbreak | no, redrawing the UI is cake |
| 13:39.47 | Adys | and as ZorbaGama said, doing it properly would involve freezing tabs in memory |
| 13:39.48 | cbreak | browsers do that all the time |
| 13:39.51 | Adys | and that's no easy task |
| 13:39.53 | Adys | no |
| 13:39.59 | Momro | Zorba: You can toggle the option to restart old tabs in Chrome right at the first settings page ... |
| 13:40.00 | cbreak | every time I scroll |
| 13:40.11 | cbreak | every time I scale, or resize the window |
| 13:40.17 | Adys | first of all when you scroll it's the renderer content that is redrawn |
| 13:40.19 | Adys | second of all |
| 13:40.26 | Adys | by redrawn i obviously meant rebuilt |
| 13:40.34 | Adys | hint: read my full sentence |
| 13:40.56 | cbreak | every time I close a window and open it again |
| 13:41.11 | Adys | not in firefox |
| 13:41.13 | cbreak | (with recently closed window functionality) |
| 13:41.24 | Adys | a new window does not imply destroying and rebuilding the UI |
| 13:41.36 | Adys | especially in tabbed apps |
| 13:41.45 | Adys | which have features such as drag tab in/out of a window |
| 13:42.25 | Adys | if it did it would have severe memory issues |
| 13:42.30 | Adys | (oh wait thats firefox innit?) |
| 13:42.59 | airtonix | icwutudidthar |
| 13:43.05 | Momro | I wonder what you're discussing about ;-) |
| 13:43.16 | airtonix | the finer points of world domination |
| 13:43.20 | Adys | we're talking about why nobody should use firefox |
| 13:43.24 | Adys | wish Arrowmaster was awake |
| 13:43.43 | Momro | hihi |
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| 13:44.13 | Momro | The word "nobody" tells me that the discussion is already messed up ;-p |
| 13:44.35 | Adys | it's a joke, smarty |
| 13:44.50 | Adys | i don't have anything against people using firefox |
| 13:44.57 | Adys | just like i don't judge masochists in general |
| 13:45.16 | zenzelezz | I love Firefox, but I still agree with Adys about the addon thing |
| 13:45.44 | Momro | hehe ;-) |
| 13:46.16 | Adys | IN OTHER NEWS. |
| 13:46.16 | Adys | http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/05/celebrating-150-years-of-mit.html |
| 13:46.29 | airtonix | lewl |
| 13:46.34 | Fisker | hello airtonix |
| 13:46.40 | Adys | hey Fisker |
| 13:46.44 | Adys | glados or what? |
| 13:46.45 | airtonix | hellow fellow person |
| 13:46.45 | Adys | yesterday |
| 13:47.07 | Momro | As far as I can tell, Google's Chrome does not have any security problems concerning addons. |
| 13:47.16 | Fisker | hey Adys |
| 13:47.18 | Fisker | no glados |
| 13:47.20 | Adys | what |
| 13:47.32 | Adys | seriously im the only one who thought about glados in yesterday's ep? |
| 13:47.44 | Adys | Momro: why would it? |
| 13:48.01 | Momro | Because of the sandbox architecture? |
| 13:48.18 | Adys | why would it have security problems is my question |
| 13:48.30 | Adys | im just trying to make sense on why you said what you said |
| 13:48.44 | Adys | as in are you just babbling or was there a point to your sentence |
| 13:49.03 | Momro | ah, ok |
| 13:49.26 | Kalroth | Chrome sux, so it has a lot of security problems |
| 13:49.32 | Adys | speaking of sucking |
| 13:49.35 | Adys | get to work Kalroth. |
| 13:49.50 | Momro | 1st: There are no security problems in Chrome. If there are, name them. |
| 13:50.06 | Momro | 2nd: I wonder why Firefox does not adopt the sandbox stuff |
| 13:50.12 | Adys | they do |
| 13:50.21 | Kalroth | because sandboxing is a dumb idea that doesn't work |
| 13:50.23 | Adys | they started working on it like 5 months after chrome was released |
| 13:50.28 | mikma | bluspacecow: http://imgur.com/r/Minecraft/MsHpG |
| 13:50.29 | Momro | Or why addons receive so many system rights, as you say |
| 13:50.45 | Adys | the problem is, its a 10 year old browser |
| 13:51.01 | Adys | and addons receive so many system rights because the devs are morons |
| 13:51.09 | Adys | just like kde3 devs were morons |
| 13:51.33 | Adys | if they were leading a political campain their motto would be "POWER TO THE DEVELOPERRRRR" |
| 13:51.39 | Momro | were they? Interesting. I'm new to Linux, just recently installed kubuntu/kde. Tell me more :-) |
| 13:51.55 | Adys | see the problem with devs that build apps that only geeks use is |
| 13:52.19 | Adys | they trust that their users or addon developers are also geeks like them and would "never use their power for evil" |
| 13:52.46 | Adys | so they put up a bunch of settings, checkboxes, huge lists of configurable shit and an immense API for devs to play with and they say "Isn't this so cool?" |
| 13:52.46 | Kalroth | or maybe they dont want to limit themselves because of dumb users |
| 13:52.57 | Adys | yes and no |
| 13:53.02 | Adys | the problem isnt JUST dumb users |
| 13:53.12 | Adys | in the case of settings it sometimes is |
| 13:53.26 | Adys | but the problem is also NEW users |
| 13:53.36 | Kalroth | yes, dumb users |
| 13:53.44 | Adys | no |
| 13:53.51 | Adys | smart new users who open the app for the first time |
| 13:53.53 | nevcairiel | inexperiences is not dumb |
| 13:54.02 | Kalroth | no such thing as smart new users |
| 13:54.15 | Kalroth | if they were smart then they'd already be using my app! |
| 13:54.28 | Adys | because they're smart they're avoiding your code |
| 13:54.40 | Adys | haven't i fixed a bunch of your <marquee>s a couple years back? |
| 13:54.48 | Kalroth | but ive put it in a sandbox so it's protected against all hacks |
| 13:55.00 | Momro | o.O |
| 13:55.07 | Adys | anyway my point is |
| 13:55.09 | Kalroth | in fact, i put my sandboxes in a sandbox to double trick the hackers |
| 13:55.19 | ZorbaGama | yo dogg |
| 13:55.24 | Momro | You developed your own addon for Firefox? |
| 13:55.25 | Kalroth | they're like "haha i hacked the sandbox" and im like "lololol" |
| 13:55.49 | Adys | smart new user opens the app for the first time and what do you know, <thing> does a thing I don't lik |
| 13:55.51 | Adys | +e |
| 13:56.02 | Kalroth | thing does a thing, eh? |
| 13:56.04 | Adys | so i go in the option and try to find <thing> |
| 13:56.12 | Adys | and there you are |
| 13:56.16 | Kalroth | is this a fantastic four addon? |
| 13:56.18 | Adys | sixty thousand checkboxes and radio buttons |
| 13:56.32 | Kraps | why do i even have divx? |
| 13:56.42 | Adys | point is, kde3 devs are morons |
| 13:56.44 | Kalroth | Adys, just click the "im a linuckz user" checkbox and it'll reduce the interface for you |
| 13:57.31 | Adys | and gnome devs are a bunch of people so angry at kde3 that they decided not to learn anything of the good that was in kde at the time |
| 13:57.33 | Adys | fucking bs. |
| 13:57.41 | Adys | thankfully kde4 isnt bad |
| 13:57.49 | Kalroth | like developers like users! |
| 14:01.51 | Kraps | http://inception.davepedu.com/ |
| 14:02.26 | karl_w_w | like |
| 14:05.29 | Fisker | hey Kalroth |
| 14:05.49 | Fisker | if you asked the god of gaming, which graphics card would he prfer? |
| 14:05.52 | Fisker | prefer* |
| 14:07.13 | karl_w_w | god needs no graphics card |
| 14:07.24 | Fisker | i said god of gaming karl_w_w |
| 14:07.33 | Fisker | a god of gaming very much needs a graphics card |
| 14:07.39 | Fisker | atleast until we can do quick enough raytracing |
| 14:09.12 | Kraps | the loan shark has a shark head durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr |
| 14:09.44 | *** join/#wowuidev cyndis (cyndis@lakka.kapsi.fi) |
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| 14:14.09 | Yoshimo | INCOMING_RESURRECT_CHANGED , does this mean with 4.2 we dont need the old ctra-protocl anymore to see who resurrects who? |
| 14:15.22 | Fisker | i hope |
| 14:15.23 | Fisker | so |
| 14:15.23 | Adys | sounds like it |
| 14:15.31 | Fisker | because then i'll be spamming mass ressurection constantly |
| 14:15.43 | Cide | airtonix: Adys has taught me to use nginx |
| 14:15.53 | Cide | so your script is useless to me! |
| 14:15.58 | Fisker | awww |
| 14:16.03 | Fisker | your first stroke Cide |
| 14:16.05 | Fisker | that is so cute |
| 14:16.09 | airtonix | yeah i'm going to make it work with nginx too soon |
| 14:16.32 | Cide | TOO SOON |
| 14:16.45 | airtonix | yeah |
| 14:16.47 | airtonix | yesterday |
| 14:17.07 | Cide | WHAT IS THE MEANING OF THIS INTRUSION |
| 14:17.32 | Fisker | slaps Cide around a bit with a large trout |
| 14:17.32 | Fisker | slaps airtonix around a bit with a large trout |
| 14:18.06 | airtonix | Fisker: umadbro |
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| 14:34.16 | foxlit | ew, thors with energy |
| 14:43.02 | Momro | Can I get a function in Lua with a result? *g* |
| 14:43.25 | Momro | something like print(postDatetime()); |
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| 14:47.21 | zenzelezz | I'm not sure what you're asking there |
| 14:47.43 | Momro | ummm |
| 14:48.39 | Momro | In Java, it'd be like "public String myFunction() { return "This is a result!"; } |
| 14:49.03 | Cide | www.lua.org/pil |
| 14:49.27 | Momro | thank you so much for pointing that out ;-p |
| 14:49.36 | zenzelezz | as Cide says, you should read the PIL; but anyhow - if you want to return anything in lua, you just do "return whatever" |
| 14:49.43 | zenzelezz | you don't declare any return type |
| 14:50.03 | Momro | Ah, ok, I see. That's beautiful :-) |
| 14:53.52 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (~p3lim@200.41.202.84.customer.cdi.no) |
| 14:54.09 | p3lim | :SetText() seems to have gotten a 2nd argument, a boolean |
| 14:54.23 | zenzelezz | areYouSure |
| 14:55.44 | p3lim | its used atleast 3 times in the new build |
| 14:56.00 | airtonix | java sucks bro |
| 14:56.06 | airtonix | so does visualbasic |
| 14:56.14 | airtonix | inb4qq |
| 14:56.51 | Momro | o.O |
| 14:57.20 | Momro | I'm sorry that Java is a very common language and almost anyone in the computer business knows a bit about its syntax ;-p |
| 14:57.23 | zenzelezz | QQbasic |
| 14:57.32 | airtonix | lawl |
| 14:59.52 | airtonix | Momro: i see what you did there. |
| 14:59.55 | Adys | p3lim: got some example? |
| 15:00.54 | Momro | You did? I'm understanding only half of the code I'm writing down right now *g* |
| 15:01.27 | Cide | I don't get how you can understand java |
| 15:01.33 | Cide | and not lua |
| 15:01.38 | airtonix | hoho |
| 15:01.48 | airtonix | because they don't teach java |
| 15:01.51 | airtonix | "teach" |
| 15:01.57 | airtonix | it's indoctrinated |
| 15:02.09 | airtonix | viz why it's all over the place like a bad rash |
| 15:02.20 | p3lim | Adys: https://github.com/tekkub/wow-ui-source/commit/9a21b311a5f31959dba15fdd60a5e43ec920b6e9#FrameXML/MailFrame.lua |
| 15:02.27 | airtonix | speakers under the pillows bro |
| 15:02.44 | Adys | p3lim: I'm going to guess isSelected |
| 15:02.51 | Momro | erm, I just started writing in Lua some hours ago, and I'm not really good in Java either, but I know some basic syntax ;-) |
| 15:03.04 | p3lim | Perhaps |
| 15:03.19 | p3lim | I've just seen it being used on SimpleHTML and EditBox frames yet |
| 15:07.06 | p3lim | Whats the EncounterJournal btw? |
| 15:07.36 | Adys | ezmode raiding |
| 15:07.43 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO^ (as@2001:470:1f07:115d:551c:3a8c:fbf5:2a7c) |
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| 15:07.45 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+rqf $~a #shiibot] by EDI |
| 15:07.45 | EDI | Channel locked temporarily. Time since last lockdown (in minutes): 12981 minutes |
| 15:07.50 | Cide | wtf |
| 15:07.50 | zenzelezz | ... |
| 15:07.53 | Adys | slaps EDI |
| 15:07.57 | Cide | haha what the fuck |
| 15:08.01 | Cide | Shirik: |
| 15:08.04 | Adys | Shirik Cairenn Shadowed jnwhiteh someone revert |
| 15:08.06 | Cide | fix your fail |
| 15:08.13 | Cairenn | Adys: ? |
| 15:08.20 | Adys | Cairenn: edi got trigger happy |
| 15:08.20 | airtonix | trolled |
| 15:08.22 | p3lim | lol |
| 15:08.24 | Cide | go slap Shirik |
| 15:08.36 | Cairenn | yeah, I see that, it's been doing that a lot lately, dunno why |
| 15:08.46 | zenzelezz | it's becoming self-aware |
| 15:08.52 | Cairenn | heh |
| 15:08.58 | airtonix | awesome |
| 15:11.07 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 15:12.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (~Jamash@adsl-75-62-114-113.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net) |
| 15:13.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (~Jamash@75.62.114.113) |
| 15:14.39 | p3lim | hah, just ask I asked, mmo-c posted an article about the EncounterJournal :p |
| 15:15.11 | Jamash | now everyone can be confused when someone says "Check EJ" |
| 15:15.22 | p3lim | :) |
| 15:15.30 | zenzelezz | heh, didn't think of that |
| 15:15.35 | zenzelezz | think that's intentional? :-p |
| 15:15.40 | A-KO | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zTtwXQ5PJM < dude.....wow.... |
| 15:15.58 | p3lim | most likely |
| 15:17.00 | p3lim | some people have less life than others :/ |
| 15:19.09 | p3lim | christ, EJ replaces AtlasLoot for Cata |
| 15:19.38 | Jamash | I think compared to most things a lot of people get up to in their spare time, making 1:1 models of Ghibli movie locations in Minecraft is pretty awesome |
| 15:21.39 | p3lim | Hm, keyring is gone |
| 15:23.26 | olafski | is this done by manual mining and placing blocks or using some kind of editor? |
| 15:23.57 | Jamash | it varies |
| 15:24.24 | zenzelezz | p3lim: might as well, seeing how they removed almost all keys long ago |
| 15:24.33 | Jamash | sometimes it's done in-game but with infinite blocks |
| 15:25.14 | olafski | that's at least better than with an editor jamash ;) |
| 15:38.08 | airtonix | jnwhiteh: yay, i got a quarry machine going ! |
| 15:38.46 | airtonix | i lost my last one because i tried to pick it up by bashing with my hand.... and it vanished....along with 22diamonds :< |
| 15:48.39 | Jamash | airtonix: your hand vanished? |
| 15:52.06 | Jamash | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uyxVmdaJ-w numerous lolz |
| 15:54.41 | airtonix | yeah you should stick your hand in machinery |
| 15:54.45 | airtonix | shoudn't |
| 15:56.41 | Jamash | well, which one is it? |
| 15:57.21 | Jamash | 'cause I've got some inexplicably large rapidly rotating gears here and I was about to stick my whole arm in |
| 15:57.29 | airtonix | Adys: you reckon this is a custom shader or made in some 3d compositing program ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESjBiixktwc&feature=related |
| 15:58.01 | Adys | airtonix: what specifically? |
| 15:58.08 | Jamash | seeing as someone put GLSL in minecraft I'd guess shader |
| 15:58.30 | airtonix | some of the models are rather hi res though |
| 15:58.32 | Adys | yeah theres definitely some shader going on in there |
| 15:58.43 | Adys | the selection highlight itself doesnt look right |
| 15:59.01 | Adys | iss this even the minecraft client? |
| 15:59.06 | Adys | s/s/s/ |
| 15:59.08 | Adys | er |
| 15:59.11 | Adys | s/s// |
| 15:59.12 | airtonix | thats what im asking |
| 15:59.21 | Jamash | I'd say yes |
| 15:59.25 | airtonix | i thought glsl only affected textures and perception |
| 15:59.35 | Adys | glsl can do a lot of things |
| 15:59.44 | Jamash | well it's obviously GLSL+further mods |
| 15:59.47 | Adys | aye |
| 16:00.11 | airtonix | fortresscraft.com |
| 16:00.22 | Jamash | or... an independent reimplementation of minecraft? |
| 16:00.31 | airtonix | LULZ |
| 16:00.34 | airtonix | for xbox |
| 16:01.16 | Jamash | ripofffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff |
| 16:02.38 | airtonix | doesn't have equiv of redstone yet |
| 16:04.05 | Jamash | I wish toady would make an api for DF so that other parties could create a 3D client |
| 16:07.21 | Kraps | if i have the rift client from trions site when i buy the game on steam do i have to redownload the client? |
| 16:09.22 | Kalroth | if you want Steam to maintain the game, yes |
| 16:10.01 | Ackis | Kraps: no |
| 16:10.29 | Ackis | Kraps: you just need the key... steam won't maintain it, it'll just download the release and you'll have to patch through the rift patcher all over again |
| 16:11.28 | Kalroth | no? then there's very little use to buying it over Steam as it is cheaper everywhere else :) |
| 16:12.13 | Kraps | its the same price on trions site |
| 16:12.58 | Kalroth | D2D is cheaper |
| 16:13.09 | Kalroth | at least it is here in europe, I assume it is in US too |
| 16:13.37 | Kraps | 5 bucks |
| 16:13.49 | Fisker | dicks |
| 16:13.53 | Fisker | what are we talking about? |
| 16:14.05 | Ackis | Kraps: if you have the extra $10 I'd really recommend getting the digital CE |
| 16:14.17 | Kalroth | 8 pound cheaper here, which is like 10-12 bux |
| 16:14.26 | Fisker | why are you guys buying Rift? |
| 16:14.36 | Kalroth | im not, kraps is |
| 16:14.48 | Fisker | and you can get it through steam |
| 16:14.50 | Kalroth | Ackis, $10 for a month and 2 bags? :) |
| 16:14.54 | Fisker | just buy it, and copy over the files |
| 16:14.55 | Fisker | bam |
| 16:15.02 | Kalroth | mount* |
| 16:15.07 | Fisker | is not rocket surgery |
| 16:15.08 | Kalroth | needs more eeffoc |
| 16:15.09 | Ackis | Kalroth: the bag is nice, but the mount is REALLY nice |
| 16:15.46 | Fisker | btw Ackis |
| 16:15.51 | Fisker | i think SW:TOR is actually worse than Rift |
| 16:16.00 | Fisker | which is pretty messed up |
| 16:16.01 | Ackis | really? |
| 16:16.14 | Fisker | really |
| 16:16.53 | Fisker | i'm not sure if it's the derp job the player did, but it really didn't look very great, didn't seem to play very well, and had a worse UI than WoW classic |
| 16:17.01 | Jamash | has the swtor betar started yet? |
| 16:17.02 | Kraps | this episode is a pretty awesome metaphor for drugs and going to shady places to get high |
| 16:17.21 | Fisker | Jamash not the "open" beta |
| 16:17.31 | Fisker | they're running a friend & family type of thingy at the moment |
| 16:17.40 | Fisker | http://da.justin.tv/archive/archive_popout?id=285836649 |
| 16:17.43 | Fisker | prepare to be horrified |
| 16:18.01 | Fisker | you may have to skip several segments to not fall asleep |
| 16:18.02 | *** join/#wowuidev mitchnull (~androirc@apn-89-223-239-76.vodafone.hu) |
| 16:18.07 | Fisker | at some point he waited like 5 minutes in the same spot |
| 16:18.11 | Fisker | almost drove me crazy |
| 16:18.28 | Fisker | oh yeah i forgot one thing |
| 16:18.36 | Fisker | it may just look shitty because he's on a shitty computer |
| 16:18.39 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix_ (~T_T@unaffiliated/airtonix) |
| 16:18.49 | Fisker | so not entirely fair to say it looks crap :P |
| 16:19.12 | Jamash | http://www.swtor.com/news/blog/20110429 <--- "We took the WoW UI and copied and pasted it and said we're so innovative because we put the minimap in the lower right instead of the upper right" |
| 16:19.40 | Fisker | the red buttons somehow remind me of some wow buttons |
| 16:19.44 | Fisker | i just can't recall which |
| 16:19.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Borgleader (~borgleade@modemcable253.146-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 16:20.24 | Kraps | Jamash: the whole ui is flipped! reinventing the wheel! |
| 16:20.35 | *** mode/#wowuidev [-r] by Cairenn |
| 16:20.42 | *** part/#wowuidev Fisker (na@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 16:20.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (na@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 16:20.45 | Jamash | actually putting the player portrait / HP next to the action bar is better than wow which puts it as far away as possible |
| 16:20.58 | Jamash | but in 4.2 you can move the player frame so... |
| 16:21.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Momro (~Miranda@HSI-KBW-109-192-043-161.hsi6.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 16:21.08 | Fisker | golden cut Jamash |
| 16:21.09 | Jamash | or wait can you do that now? |
| 16:21.09 | Fisker | bam |
| 16:22.03 | Ackis | help! the bells are after me!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 16:22.10 | Jamash | are you two high |
| 16:22.36 | Ackis | no my cats are running around crazy like :( |
| 16:22.46 | Adys | airtonix_: how do you attach a callback to an event in qt? |
| 16:22.49 | Adys | or well in pyside |
| 16:23.05 | Jamash | you know, there's no english text in star wars |
| 16:23.18 | Jamash | so clearly putting text in the UI is a violation of canon |
| 16:24.07 | *** mode/#wowuidev [-q $~a] by Cairenn |
| 16:25.28 | Momro | Ok, well, good to be here again *g* I have some serious programming question, once more *g* I tried to write a function with return value, but it just won't work. Although it's very short, here's a link to http://pastebin.com/xL8cwEAp |
| 16:26.15 | Kraps | "g"? |
| 16:26.16 | Jamash | looks correct to me |
| 16:26.59 | karl_w_w | sup g? |
| 16:27.01 | Momro | I fumbled around with that shit for more than an hour :-( |
| 16:27.08 | Jamash | ~pil |
| 16:27.08 | purl | Programming in Lua, a book written by the authors of the Lua programming language. The first edition is available free online at http://www.lua.org/pil and covers Lua 5.0. The second edition is available in print from most online bookstores, and covers Lua 5.1. |
| 16:30.34 | karl_w_w | the only way I can imagine that wouldnt work is if it's not reaching the print() |
| 16:31.08 | Momro | I have another print-message right in front of that. It has to work :-( |
| 16:31.27 | Kraps | willow's having magic withdrawal |
| 16:32.58 | Momro | Hm. Now I tried to print directly in posttext(), and it doesn't work either |
| 16:33.31 | Momro | WoW always says ... attempt to call global posttext (a nil value) |
| 16:33.34 | karl_w_w | does it work if you change it to a global function? |
| 16:34.07 | Momro | Yep, works. wtf |
| 16:34.40 | karl_w_w | I've had that problem before. Anybody smarter than me want to explain wtf? :P |
| 16:36.52 | Momro | The problem persists if I switch the function to another lua file |
| 16:37.02 | Momro | where the function is still a global one |
| 16:38.15 | Momro | I tried to rename the function, but that doesn't seem to matter, too. |
| 16:40.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Sapu (~Sapu94@24-205-239-250.dhcp.snlo.ca.charter.com) |
| 16:41.56 | *** join/#wowuidev rtharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 16:43.59 | foxlit | Momro: remove "local", try again |
| 16:44.31 | Jamash | scope is tricky |
| 16:44.35 | foxlit | which you already have. In that case, read up on Lua scoping |
| 16:44.35 | Jamash | very tricky |
| 16:44.44 | Jamash | also wow scoping |
| 16:44.51 | Momro | insane |
| 16:44.53 | foxlit | wow doesn't have any special scoping rules |
| 16:45.03 | Jamash | does lua normally have file scope? |
| 16:45.04 | foxlit | It's actually very simple: local variables can only be accessed from the block they were defined in. |
| 16:45.09 | foxlit | Yes. |
| 16:45.15 | Jamash | well nevermind then |
| 16:45.26 | Momro | Yeah, I removed all local definitions, but it doesn't work anyway |
| 16:45.38 | Momro | made everything global |
| 16:45.45 | nevcairiel | Lua has lexical scoping, i dont see how thats anything special |
| 16:46.23 | Momro | scoping sounds familiar. I had to deal with that last semestre ;-p |
| 16:47.13 | Jamash | files are executed in the order encountered in your toc file btw, so ordering matters |
| 16:47.51 | Momro | Hm. Hmmm! You mean I should put the main file at the end, or the beginning? |
| 16:48.13 | zenzelezz | so people are cruel parents... http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/76367/what-are-some-fun-and-very-easy-c-programs-for-a-10-year-old-kid-to-write |
| 16:49.45 | Momro | hehe |
| 16:49.46 | airtonix_ | nevcairiel: lua treats files as modules like python does right? |
| 16:52.13 | foxlit | nevcairiel: you might not expect it if you came from like, Java |
| 16:52.37 | foxlit | publiv void stuff() {doThings(): } public void doThings() {} |
| 16:52.44 | Momro | I've put the main file at the end of the toc, some problem |
| 16:53.19 | Momro | That's awful. Guess I'll have to use global vars |
| 16:53.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (~Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 16:53.41 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 16:53.52 | foxlit | That is not a good conclusion |
| 16:54.25 | foxlit | Scoping in three easy parts: |
| 16:54.25 | Momro | But I don't see any other way how to fix that. I can't use functions from other files with return values ... |
| 16:54.37 | airtonix_ | Adys: self.connect(self.combo_host_chooser, QtCore.SIGNAL('activated(QString)'), self.combo_host_chooser_activated) |
| 16:54.47 | Adys | not signals |
| 16:54.48 | Adys | events |
| 16:54.58 | Adys | and thats not how you do it in pyside :P |
| 16:55.02 | foxlit | 1. Groups of statements are called blocks. For instance, if ... then (block here) end while ... do (block here) end and so on. |
| 16:55.14 | Momro | Understood |
| 16:55.15 | Adys | airtonix_: you can do this in pyside: self.activated.connect(self.combo_host_chooser_activated) |
| 16:55.39 | foxlit | 2. If you define a local variable (or local function, functions being a special case of variables) within a block, it is only accessible by name within that block and the blocks inside it |
| 16:55.46 | Momro | Understood |
| 16:56.22 | foxlit | Actually, I think that's it. |
| 16:56.34 | airtonix_ | Adys: specialy inherited propertys that represent event objects ? |
| 16:56.42 | Momro | You said there were three parts ;-p |
| 16:56.58 | Momro | Scoping should include lexical binding, shouldn't it? |
| 16:56.59 | foxlit | The dangers of choosing catchy lead-ins before figuring out what you wanted to say :) |
| 16:57.07 | airtonix_ | Adys: i think i tried it but it didn't work for me at the time |
| 16:57.07 | Momro | HrHr |
| 16:57.16 | Adys | it doesnt work in pyqt4 |
| 16:57.29 | Adys | anyway i need to connect a qsystrayicon wheelevent |
| 16:57.35 | foxlit | So as a rule of thumb, in order for your local variable to be in scope at a given statement, it has to be declared above the statement and in a block from which the statement descends |
| 16:58.16 | foxlit | lua> if true then local function foo() print("foo"); end print("foo is ", foo, "because it's not defined in a parent block") |
| 16:58.17 | lua_bot | foxlit: luabot:1: 'end' expected near '<eof>' |
| 16:58.28 | foxlit | lua> if true then local function foo() print("foo"); end end print("foo is ", foo, "because it's not defined in a parent block") |
| 16:58.28 | lua_bot | foxlit: foo is , nil, because it's not defined in a parent block |
| 16:59.31 | foxlit | You can then have a legitimate question -- "If I define everything as local, how do I let files interact with eachother?" |
| 16:59.35 | Momro | Yeah, I read that in the Lua book everyone recommends here ;-p |
| 16:59.43 | Momro | No, no, no |
| 17:00.15 | Momro | Ok, let me tell you how the interaction looks like: |
| 17:00.28 | airtonix_ | use one global as your namespace like you do in java |
| 17:01.05 | Momro | (local) function in Main calls global function in sub, which has string as return value, and prints that out |
| 17:01.38 | Momro | but the function in Main won't do that and throw an "attempt to call global ..." error |
| 17:02.38 | airtonix_ | Momro: if you're going to start splittign your logic amongst several files, then you probably benefit from reading some others addons that already do this |
| 17:03.07 | Momro | Hm, hm |
| 17:03.40 | foxlit | Momro: keep in mind that there's no concept of actually defining functions |
| 17:03.50 | airtonix_ | i f i remember correctly, you can't use luas module management system in wow, so you have to look for your one unique vairable that is your namespace |
| 17:03.59 | airtonix_ | in each file |
| 17:04.18 | foxlit | so function foo() return "foo"; end is actually just syntactic sugar for foo = function() return "foo" end |
| 17:04.24 | Momro | I hadn't thought of this logic being *so* complicated in Lua ... I just wanted to clean up the code a bit, and return values would be nice there |
| 17:04.26 | foxlit | As such, that code has to *run* before you call foo() |
| 17:04.42 | Wobin | zenzelezz: haha, lets suggest Project Euler for a ten year old >< |
| 17:05.13 | airtonix_ | how is it complicated? |
| 17:05.36 | karl_w_w | lua> local function foo() return "hello" end print(foo()) |
| 17:05.37 | lua_bot | karl_w_w: hello |
| 17:05.47 | karl_w_w | why have I had that sort of thing fail before :P |
| 17:06.01 | Momro | Do you see how much discussion is going on in this channel? It *is* complicated ;-p |
| 17:06.12 | airtonix_ | as opposed to java? |
| 17:06.14 | Wobin | you're unlucky? |
| 17:06.45 | airtonix_ | Momro: how did you used to edit and release java code? text editor and commandline compiler? |
| 17:06.49 | Momro | dunno, I'm not very good in Java, but had a great time with Delphi/Pascal |
| 17:09.18 | Fisker | destroys nevcairiel for free |
| 17:09.58 | Fisker | from a scale from Cairenn to 10 how awesome am i? |
| 17:10.04 | Fisker | on a* |
| 17:10.23 | Cairenn | are you suggesting I'm a zero? |
| 17:10.31 | Fisker | no! |
| 17:10.36 | airtonix_ | lawl |
| 17:10.37 | Cairenn | or a one? |
| 17:10.44 | Fisker | you are number 1! |
| 17:10.47 | Fisker | that's a good thing |
| 17:10.50 | Cairenn | lol |
| 17:10.54 | zenzelezz | the one and only |
| 17:11.06 | Cairenn | thank god, hey? |
| 17:11.07 | airtonix_ | Fisker: so only 10? |
| 17:11.10 | karl_w_w | riker wasnt called number 1 for nothing |
| 17:11.15 | Momro | lol |
| 17:11.18 | Adys | airtonix_: fucks sake, for some reason it's not attaching to my systray |
| 17:11.35 | airtonix_ | Adys: maybe it's a composite widget |
| 17:11.36 | karl_w_w | get a bigger tray |
| 17:11.55 | zenzelezz | im not in ur systrayz, making u mad |
| 17:12.14 | Cairenn | bonks zenzelezz over the head |
| 17:12.18 | foxlit | By the way, if you're running Win 7/Vista, I'm interested in whether the updated version of http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info16700-BLPView.html works for you |
| 17:12.37 | zenzelezz | enjoys it just a little |
| 17:12.45 | Xinhuan | Momro, it might be easier if you think of multiple Lua files, as simply all of them concatenated into one file, but each file surrounded by a "do end" block, so each "file" has its own scope - because that's actually what it is |
| 17:13.16 | Xinhuan | the order of loading them thus matters, and is specified in the TOC file of the addon |
| 17:13.23 | foxlit | You know what I keep running into in Java? |
| 17:13.26 | karl_w_w | I often see shadowed going |away and un-|away, but I've never seen him say anything and he's not in any other visible channels. What a secret life he must lead. |
| 17:13.34 | foxlit | do { bool done = false; } while(!done) |
| 17:13.38 | foxlit | done is out of scope :( |
| 17:13.51 | Xinhuan | haha foxlit |
| 17:13.58 | nevcairiel | why would you write it like that |
| 17:13.59 | Xinhuan | at least the compiler will catch that one |
| 17:14.10 | Adys | airtonix_: it says the system tray is available, it says the systray icon is visible |
| 17:14.19 | Adys | i add/remove apps |
| 17:14.27 | Adys | they all work but not this one... |
| 17:14.29 | Xinhuan | i hope my little tip helped, Momro :) |
| 17:14.38 | Xinhuan | it reeeeeally isn't complicated at all |
| 17:14.40 | foxlit | nevcairiel: as opposed to moving done out? |
| 17:14.47 | Momro | Hm, yeah, well, ok |
| 17:15.08 | Momro | But it's really sad that I can't use return values, even in global functions |
| 17:15.08 | nevcairiel | in which language does that actually work? |
| 17:15.22 | foxlit | I don't know. |
| 17:15.31 | Xinhuan | why not? |
| 17:15.35 | foxlit | Possibly none. But there's no reason it shouldn't work |
| 17:15.43 | Momro | Oh, and, I tried to switch the main and the sub files around, nothing changed :-/ |
| 17:15.48 | Xinhuan | if you are getting "trying to call global function, a nil value" errors |
| 17:15.58 | Xinhuan | it means your first file is trying to call a function that isn't defined yet |
| 17:15.58 | foxlit | lua> repeat local x = true; until x print("moo"); |
| 17:15.59 | lua_bot | foxlit: moo |
| 17:16.08 | foxlit | Lua! |
| 17:16.10 | Xinhuan | because you defined that function in the second or later file |
| 17:16.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@adsl-74-226-117-74.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 17:16.13 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 17:16.14 | foxlit | <3 |
| 17:16.17 | Momro | Ok, I see |
| 17:16.30 | Xinhuan | note this only applies if you are actually trying to CALL the function |
| 17:16.32 | Cairenn | morning Seerah |
| 17:16.36 | Xinhuan | at the main file level |
| 17:16.49 | Seerah | hola |
| 17:17.03 | airtonix_ | are you spanish |
| 17:17.06 | Xinhuan | if you are trying to call it from within a function that doesn't run until much later (say an in game event), then all the functions in all the files would already have been loaded and defined by then |
| 17:17.07 | airtonix_ | or brazilian? |
| 17:17.08 | Momro | Yep, understood. For that purpose, I've put the sub files in front of the main file ... but that didn't help either |
| 17:17.25 | foxlit | toc loading order may not actually update when you reload |
| 17:17.31 | Cairenn | Seerah: (1:11:37 PM) foxlit: By the way, if you're running Win 7/Vista, I'm interested in whether the updated version of http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info16700-BLPView.html works for you (copying it to you because I know you were using the previous version) |
| 17:17.38 | Momro | Jep, I restarted WoW, then |
| 17:17.52 | Seerah | Cairenn: foxlit: I just downloaded the new version :) |
| 17:17.59 | Cairenn | heh |
| 17:18.00 | Xinhuan | you are probably just trying to execute a function that is defined in a later file |
| 17:18.08 | Xinhuan | that isn't the same as just defining the function |
| 17:18.10 | karl_w_w | coding addons is for people who enjoy confusion and frustration |
| 17:18.18 | Adys | i should really write an xdg thumbnailer for BLPs |
| 17:18.38 | Momro | Word! o.O |
| 17:18.51 | Momro | Hm |
| 17:19.19 | foxlit | Seerah: excellent, so it doesn't blow up PCs outright :) |
| 17:19.41 | Seerah | foxlit: I just installed it and checked. looks good so far on Win7 x64 |
| 17:19.55 | foxlit | That's also the platform I develop on. |
| 17:19.57 | Momro | Ok, let's say you're right and I fussed it up, what do you recommend? ;-p Shall I exchange some file names, make everything a global function? by the way, the print() is fired when I get infight |
| 17:21.15 | Xinhuan | you can |
| 17:21.20 | Xinhuan | post your code in a pastey |
| 17:21.23 | Xinhuan | and we can look over it |
| 17:21.26 | foxlit | Making your functions global is a reasonable strategy. Pick a prefix that's unlikely to collide with other addons, though |
| 17:21.33 | Xinhuan | and by code, we mean your full code |
| 17:21.40 | foxlit | On the other hand, some people prefer to use a single table global, and store everything they want to expose in that |
| 17:21.46 | Momro | kk, erm, I'll try to clean the code up a bit |
| 17:21.51 | Cairenn | (O/T, Political) - Discovery Channel Canada's schedule for this evening is amusing (at least to me) - BigFoot: The Definitive Guide -> Killing bin Laden -> BigFoot: The Definitive Guide (second airing) |
| 17:22.02 | Xinhuan | code cleanliness isn't really an issue |
| 17:22.08 | foxlit | So something like MyAddOn = {}; function MyAddOn.foo() return "foo" end [...] print(MyAddOn.foo()) |
| 17:22.51 | Xinhuan | basic rule of thumb is, don't use a function before you declare it |
| 17:23.25 | Momro | sure |
| 17:23.43 | Xinhuan | it will also help if you think of functions as objects in memory |
| 17:23.58 | Xinhuan | and you are just assigning the function object to a variable name |
| 17:24.14 | Xinhuan | and then you call the function by attaching () to the variable name |
| 17:24.17 | Xinhuan | (yes that's how it works) |
| 17:24.38 | Momro | Man, I hate it |
| 17:24.44 | Momro | it works |
| 17:24.54 | Xinhuan | so, the contents of the variable is evaluated at the time the line of code is executed |
| 17:25.05 | Xinhuan | whatever function object it is pointing at at that time |
| 17:25.17 | Fisker | i once cleaned my code |
| 17:25.28 | Fisker | then i accidentally a whole } and i spent hours trying to find the missing one |
| 17:25.53 | Momro | Looks like I can't call a global function from a different file with a return value with a local function from the main file |
| 17:25.59 | Momro | two hours of my life |
| 17:26.06 | Seerah | yep, that's a pain. So is missing a comma in a table - esp. a table of tables. |
| 17:26.08 | Momro | hehehe |
| 17:26.43 | Seerah | local means local. If a function is local to one file, it's not accessible by another file. (if that's what you meant) |
| 17:27.24 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@unaffiliated/stolenlegacy) |
| 17:27.28 | Momro | Hm, no |
| 17:27.38 | Momro | I think I didn't mean that ;-p |
| 17:27.40 | airtonix_ | nice impression of a programmer... how's it going with msdos batch files 101 bro? |
| 17:27.46 | airtonix_ | fisker |
| 17:27.47 | airtonix_ | ^ |
| 17:29.09 | Momro | Whatever, thank you very much for your time. Nice to have you around ;-) |
| 17:29.26 | Fisker | hey airtonix_ hows it going php? |
| 17:30.00 | zenzelezz | World of Tanks is full of good names... 2Fast4You69 for example |
| 17:30.10 | zenzelezz | not to mention all the Rommels and Wittmans |
| 17:30.16 | Fisker | i didn't know airtonix_ played world of tanks |
| 17:30.57 | airtonix_ | umadbro |
| 17:31.07 | Fisker | umadbro |
| 17:31.56 | Fisker | can't wait until CoD:MW4 where we nuke the world into oblivion |
| 17:32.02 | Fisker | maybe then the series will finally end |
| 17:32.12 | Fisker | unless we get like CoD:AW :( |
| 17:32.15 | Fisker | Alien Warfare ;_; |
| 17:32.21 | Fisker | it'll probably happen |
| 17:33.55 | karl_w_w | If you do :SetScript("OnUpdate", nil) inside the function that handles your onupdate, can that function get called again one last time? |
| 17:35.43 | *** join/#wowuidev cbreak (~cbreak@217-162-236-119.dynamic.hispeed.ch) |
| 17:35.47 | zenzelezz | sounds easier to use set a flag and break when it's set |
| 17:35.53 | zenzelezz | but I don't technically know |
| 17:36.05 | mitchnull | not by the onupdate handler |
| 17:36.16 | zenzelezz | "use set"... I am the king of grammar |
| 17:39.51 | Xinhuan | [5/16 01:25:53] <Momro> Looks like I can't call a global function from a different file with a return value with a local function from the main file |
| 17:39.56 | Xinhuan | i have no idea what you're talking about |
| 17:40.14 | Xinhuan | because the way you said it doesn't make sense |
| 17:40.35 | Xinhuan | 1. You can always call a global function, as long as its defined |
| 17:40.42 | Xinhuan | 2. the return value is irrelevant |
| 17:40.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@5ad7115d.bb.sky.com) |
| 17:40.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 17:41.09 | Xinhuan | 3. whether the calling function is local is irrelevant |
| 17:41.45 | mitchnull | 4 is irrelevant |
| 17:42.37 | Xinhuan | or i could be reading your sentence wrong, and you are trying to return a reference to a local function |
| 17:42.45 | Xinhuan | which is perfectly fine and works |
| 17:42.57 | Xinhuan | [as long as the local function is defined first] |
| 17:43.51 | Xinhuan | i suspect you simply don't quite know/understand the scoping rules of Lua (or Java for the matter) |
| 17:44.26 | airtonix_ | jnwhiteh: man buildcraft needs to work with smp |
| 17:44.30 | airtonix_ | it's so awesome |
| 17:45.10 | zenzelezz | SMP? |
| 17:45.26 | airtonix_ | multiplayer? |
| 17:45.56 | zenzelezz | what's the S for? |
| 17:46.20 | airtonix_ | survival i think |
| 17:46.25 | zenzelezz | ahh |
| 17:50.38 | Xinhuan | what's buildcraft |
| 17:53.30 | airtonix_ | http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1032&t=311596 |
| 17:53.43 | karl_w_w | are there any events that fire on logout/quit other than PLAYER_LOGOUT? |
| 17:56.09 | Xinhuan | PLAYER_LEAVING_WORLD |
| 17:56.27 | Xinhuan | (which also fires whenever you zone) |
| 17:56.34 | karl_w_w | ah yeah |
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| 18:09.49 | Kraps | electric guitar on the left side of the keyboard with a -1 transpose sounds bad |
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| 18:17.51 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tem] by ChanServ |
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| 18:34.32 | tem | Kaelten, ping? |
| 18:34.42 | Kaelten | pong |
| 18:34.48 | karl_w_w | ok I've written an addon which scans the AH to calculate the cost of vial of the sands mats, but it's not giving the right results. If anyone wants to solve the puzzle of why I'd appreciate it, behaviour is at the bottom of the pastey: http://wowuidev.pastey.net/149966 |
| 18:34.54 | tem | I can't commit to a curseforge svn repo for some reason |
| 18:34.59 | tem | it won't accept my username/password |
| 18:35.09 | tem | I can log in to curse sites |
| 18:35.31 | amro | it's a sign that you should quit using svn |
| 18:35.37 | tem | it's not my project |
| 18:35.43 | amro | =( |
| 18:35.50 | tem | I'm trying to fix a bug in libkeybound that's been driving me crazy for years |
| 18:36.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Yssaril (~kvirc@99-57-32-25.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:38.24 | Fisker | slaps Kaelten around a bit with a large trout |
| 18:38.40 | *** mode/#wowuidev [-o EDI] by Shirik |
| 18:40.03 | Kaelten | tem are yu using your account user/pass or the one you set up in your profile for repository auth |
| 18:40.15 | tem | I wasn't aware there was a different |
| 18:40.17 | tem | difference |
| 18:40.35 | tem | yep... not set |
| 18:40.40 | *** join/#wowuidev EDI (~Shiibot@WoWUIDev/Nospam) |
| 18:40.40 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o EDI] by ChanServ |
| 18:40.48 | Shirik | !quit I said gtfo |
| 18:41.00 | airtonix_ | umadbro |
| 18:42.28 | karl_w_w | feel like i should rewrite this whole addon no |
| 18:42.29 | karl_w_w | w |
| 18:42.33 | karl_w_w | but i just cbf |
| 18:46.23 | tem | Thanks, Kaelten |
| 18:48.10 | Thunder_Child | EDI > Shirik |
| 18:48.43 | karl_w_w | EDI is bloated? |
| 18:53.01 | Shirik | hey airtonix_ |
| 19:03.42 | Cide | hey Shirik |
| 19:03.58 | Shirik | hey Cide |
| 19:04.18 | Cide | is your bot controlling you |
| 19:04.29 | Shirik | :/ |
| 19:10.17 | Shirik | ~wiki NOTDOT |
| 19:10.29 | Cide | ~wiki Skynet |
| 19:10.30 | Shirik | ... |
| 19:10.42 | Shirik | I think I confused purl |
| 19:11.11 | Jamash | does EDI stand for everything death invader? |
| 19:12.14 | Jamash | karl_w_w: it didn't find deepstone oil the first two times |
| 19:13.59 | karl_w_w | it seems to have already broken down before it gets to albino cavefish both times |
| 19:16.04 | Jamash | I'd help debug but I'm going to see Thoreedee |
| 19:16.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Yusdan (~IceChat7@ip24-253-242-20.ok.ok.cox.net) |
| 19:16.14 | Jamash | bbl |
| 19:48.37 | karl_w_w | lua> foo = false if foo then print("lol") end |
| 19:48.37 | lua_bot | karl_w_w: No output |
| 19:48.52 | karl_w_w | good to know |
| 19:49.08 | karl_w_w | now why doesnt the same thing happen in wow |
| 19:50.18 | karl_w_w | oh it, does |
| 19:51.21 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 19:51.25 | Fisker | S h i r i k |
| 19:53.38 | Cide | of course itdoes |
| 19:53.43 | Cide | do you actually know how to program |
| 19:54.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (~chatzilla@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 19:54.50 | Fisker | hell Cide |
| 19:54.55 | Fisker | hello* |
| 19:56.23 | karl_w_w | yes |
| 19:58.37 | karl_w_w | Cide: explanation: i had something = false and an if something then, I changed it to something = nil and it appeared to fix it. but when I relogged it hadn't. hence realization that wow isn't crazy |
| 19:58.40 | karl_w_w | or something |
| 20:03.50 | Shirik | hey Fisker |
| 20:04.15 | *** join/#wowuidev daev` (~bleh@184.17.240.5) |
| 20:06.12 | jnwhiteh | Shirik: ping |
| 20:06.18 | Shirik | hm? |
| 20:06.58 | jnwhiteh | I've pinged you like three days in a row =) |
| 20:07.09 | jnwhiteh | you have 1.5 gigs of data on our box, I'm wondering if you need it or need to back it up, etc. |
| 20:07.15 | jnwhiteh | i was going to clean your user out just to keep things current |
| 20:07.17 | Shirik | um |
| 20:07.25 | Shirik | I don't even know what it is so probably not |
| 20:07.34 | jnwhiteh | it looks like an rsync backup |
| 20:07.40 | Shirik | oh I remember that |
| 20:07.42 | jnwhiteh | but you have access to it, so hop on. look, and let me know. |
| 20:07.43 | Shirik | yeah you can trash it |
| 20:07.56 | Shirik | but thanks for checking |
| 20:07.58 | jnwhiteh | you're positive? |
| 20:08.01 | Shirik | yup |
| 20:08.06 | Shirik | once you said that I remembered exactly what it was |
| 20:08.16 | jnwhiteh | there might be more than that =) |
| 20:08.23 | jnwhiteh | you're making me nervous :P |
| 20:08.51 | Shirik | not only am I sure there isn't, if there is, I would never know anyway :) |
| 20:08.55 | Shirik | seriously it's fine |
| 20:08.56 | jnwhiteh | :P |
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| 20:15.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (~Kalroth@62.107.231.63) |
| 20:17.40 | Fisker | jnwhiteh |
| 20:17.43 | Fisker | every freaking PTR |
| 20:18.04 | jnwhiteh | Got an large donation today from a company that makes sheepskin seatcovers and rugs. |
| 20:18.15 | Fisker | "seatcovers" |
| 20:18.18 | Shirik | ? |
| 20:18.19 | Fisker | "rugs" |
| 20:18.21 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 20:18.22 | jnwhiteh | Not as big as the guy who lives on the Isle of Dogs |
| 20:18.24 | Fisker | every freaking PTR |
| 20:18.25 | Shirik | for what |
| 20:21.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Sliker (~ponies@87.113.213.114) |
| 20:22.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Thunder_Child (~Thunder_C@WoWUIDev/PITA/TC) |
| 20:23.54 | Fisker | Thunder_Child |
| 20:24.00 | Fisker | every freaking PTRÂ |
| 20:24.31 | Thunder_Child | Fisker |
| 20:24.47 | karl_w_w | PTRÂ? |
| 20:24.52 | karl_w_w | pee tiara? |
| 20:25.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Monolit (~postid08@89.112.4.92.pppoe.eltel.net) |
| 20:25.53 | Fisker | l2ascii karl_w_w |
| 20:25.55 | Fisker | Thunder_Child |
| 20:26.01 | Thunder_Child | Fisker |
| 20:26.08 | Fisker | Thunder_Child |
| 20:26.15 | Thunder_Child | Fisker |
| 20:26.23 | Fisker | Thunder_Child  |
| 20:26.26 | Thunder_Child | Fisker |
| 20:26.29 | Fisker | Thunder_Child  |
| 20:26.34 | Thunder_Child | Fisker |
| 20:26.45 | Fisker | i hate it when i go on the PTR Thunder_Child |
| 20:26.49 | karl_w_w | i was going to ask what that character is meant to be |
| 20:26.55 | karl_w_w | but of course that would be pointless |
| 20:26.58 | Thunder_Child | Fisker: then dont go? |
| 20:27.13 | Fisker | you can't make me |
| 20:27.34 | Thunder_Child | yes i can't |
| 20:27.45 | Fisker | it's whitespace on a proper charset karl_w_w |
| 20:27.50 | Fisker | agreed Thunder_Child |
| 20:29.25 | Fisker | for gods sake |
| 20:37.10 | foxlit | <3 Encounter Journal |
| 20:37.33 | foxlit | Totally stealing their tree navigation widget. |
| 20:38.04 | Adys | http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2011/05/nasa-captures-comet-smashing-sun/ |
| 20:40.08 | Fisker | whoa Adys did the sun survive the collision? |
| 20:40.14 | Adys | barely |
| 20:40.37 | Fisker | would've sucked for any inhabitants of said solar system |
| 20:46.02 | Fisker | Shadowed|away is above the law |
| 20:56.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (~tuller@c-69-143-48-210.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 20:56.42 | karl_w_w | F U C K |
| 20:57.22 | Shirik | !!! |
| 20:57.26 | karl_w_w | I hate trying to code auction house scans |
| 20:57.37 | Shirik | ha |
| 20:57.43 | karl_w_w | there's no friggin logic to it |
| 20:57.48 | Shirik | Have you gotten stuff to randomly disappear yet? |
| 20:58.00 | Shirik | oh the best part is when there's more than 50k items on the AH |
| 20:58.04 | Shirik | then everything goes to hel |
| 20:58.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Yusdan (~IceChat7@ip24-253-242-20.ok.ok.cox.net) |
| 20:59.01 | karl_w_w | im only doing a little thing! |
| 21:00.44 | karl_w_w | API wishlisy: resultstable = AHQuery(variouscriteria) |
| 21:00.53 | karl_w_w | wishlist even |
| 21:03.43 | foxlit | Meh, just restrict the whole thing to secure code, imo |
| 21:06.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Xyphoid (~xyph@unaffiliated/xyphoid) |
| 21:07.21 | Kraps | hey Rift GM, l2spell/capitalize |
| 21:15.32 | karl_w_w | do slash command handlers have to be global? |
| 21:16.01 | Shirik | Kraps? |
| 21:16.21 | Shirik | karl_w_w: Do you consider `SlashCmdList["FOO"] = function()...end` to be global? |
| 21:17.26 | Kraps | hey Shirik |
| 21:18.42 | karl_w_w | depends what side of the = you're talking about Shirik, but I don't see how that's relevant |
| 21:19.13 | amro | karl_w_w: it's relevant because the function isn't global in that case and thus answers your question |
| 21:19.37 | Fisker | hey Shirik |
| 21:19.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Yusdan (~IceChat7@ip24-253-242-20.ok.ok.cox.net) |
| 21:19.43 | Fisker | play that george michael song real quick |
| 21:21.00 | Shirik | the what? |
| 21:21.53 | Fisker | http://i.imgur.com/nsSsw.jpg |
| 21:25.46 | karl_w_w | amro: but such a function would be stored in it's entirety, it's not just a reference to a function, thus it doesn't answer the question at all |
| 21:28.34 | Shirik | bets Fisker is in one of those pictures |
| 21:30.27 | Zyn | Fisker's the black guy |
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| 21:36.37 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 21:39.38 | Kraps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2xTBHyfOks&feature=player_embedded |
| 21:46.50 | cogwheel | airtonix_: buy me a VPS or more upstream BW at home and i'd be happy to ;) |
| 21:47.11 | foxlit | ha, Linode caved. |
| 21:51.08 | Kraps | the heck is that jungle i keep hearing? |
| 21:51.12 | Kraps | jingle |
| 22:00.06 | Thunder_Child | Kraps: that would be war's bridle |
| 22:00.22 | Kraps | hmm? |
| 22:00.59 | Thunder_Child | war....one of the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse.....rides a horse... |
| 22:05.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan (~pancake@cpe-024-163-014-009.triad.res.rr.com) |
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| 22:28.51 | karl_w_w | I can't be the first person who's ever written this addon surely? http://wowuidev.pastey.net/149973 |
| 22:29.29 | jnwhiteh | no |
| 22:30.03 | jnwhiteh | but its also silly to add an addon dependency for something trivial |
| 22:30.25 | jnwhiteh | in my personal opinion. |
| 22:30.58 | Fisker | hey jnwhiteh |
| 22:31.02 | Fisker | my finger is pounding |
| 22:31.08 | jnwhiteh | mine too actually |
| 22:31.15 | Fisker | oh ok |
| 22:31.33 | foxlit | Meh, it never came up for me |
| 22:31.48 | foxlit | Instrument your own code using print() if you really want to know what's going on. |
| 22:32.11 | Kraps | http://www.groupon.com/deals/big-apple-comic-con |
| 22:32.22 | foxlit | But for goodness sake, why would you want to release something that needs debug instrumentation? |
| 22:33.14 | karl_w_w | i wouldnt release it |
| 22:33.21 | karl_w_w | its for personal consumption only |
| 22:33.44 | jnwhiteh | I just include a mini-Dongle in every addon that has things like this that I need |
| 22:33.47 | foxlit | print usually fills that role for me |
| 22:33.52 | jnwhiteh | aye |
| 22:34.00 | jnwhiteh | DressToKill has a 'log' mode |
| 22:34.04 | jnwhiteh | so you can see what its doing |
| 22:34.12 | jnwhiteh | but given that it brute force tries every combination of gear on, I think that's reasonable |
| 22:34.17 | jnwhiteh | and that goes to a separate window |
| 22:35.08 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 22:35.08 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 22:51.40 | jnwhiteh | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVkdfJ9PkRQ&feature=player_embedded |
| 22:51.52 | Mikk | there's been several "debug" addons written |
| 22:51.56 | Mikk | they tend to not catch on |
| 22:52.07 | Mikk | for several reasons |
| 22:52.34 | Mikk | - you're still formatting up your messages and calling a function, even with debugging disabled |
| 22:52.37 | Mikk | - noone likes addon bloat |
| 22:52.53 | sylvanaar | and eventually, you dont need to debug as much |
| 22:53.00 | Mikk | indeed |
| 22:54.47 | Mikk | my personal choice is to have lines like |
| 22:55.02 | Mikk | --[[DBG]] print(stuff goes here) |
| 22:55.09 | Mikk | which i can quickly find&replace all into |
| 22:55.13 | Mikk | --DBG print(stuff goes here) |
| 22:55.40 | Mikk | yeah it still takes a big of space in the lua source, but it doesn't cost cpu runtime |
| 22:55.43 | sylvanaar | i have esentially the same thing, plus i have ace2's dump in a separate addon |
| 22:55.45 | Mikk | big=bit |
| 22:56.22 | sylvanaar | ace2 had the best dump/print - i cant live without it |
| 22:56.29 | Adys | Mikk: I keep hearing that excuse from Fisker |
| 22:56.36 | Adys | "I meant bit! Not big!" |
| 22:57.59 | Mikk | i still want a sane addon to visually inspect tables |
| 22:58.00 | Mikk | =( |
| 22:58.28 | Mikk | i guess wow will die before that one is written |
| 22:58.31 | sylvanaar | you will laugh at me - but when i was developing prat2, I had one built in during development |
| 22:58.40 | A-KO | ouch |
| 22:58.40 | A-KO | power |
| 22:58.41 | sylvanaar | there was one |
| 22:58.53 | sylvanaar | it was a fubar plugin, and it wasnt bad |
| 22:59.10 | Mikk | i was keeping mydebug alive for a while |
| 22:59.10 | Adys | Mikk: ive seen a couple of them |
| 22:59.12 | sylvanaar | Fubar_DebuggerFu or something |
| 22:59.36 | DWSR | Mikk: Tried LuaBrowser? |
| 23:00.08 | sylvanaar | i tried writing an autocomplete for tables at one point |
| 23:02.16 | sylvanaar | it just wasnt worth the time - it was easier to just type things |
| 23:03.28 | Mikk | DWSR: nop never heard of it |
| 23:04.39 | DWSR | Mikk: Try it out. Might not be everything you're looking for, but I've found it incredibly helpful. |
| 23:05.37 | Mikk | well unless it handles huge tables gracefully .... |
| 23:05.45 | Mikk | then again he claims to be able to browse _G |
| 23:06.20 | sylvanaar | he know something we dont about how to get all the keys? |
| 23:06.22 | Adys | My _G isn't a huge table |
| 23:06.27 | Adys | People call me lil' _G |
| 23:06.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Sliker (~ponies@87.113.213.114) |
| 23:07.59 | Cide | hahaha |
| 23:08.08 | Adys | wasn't that funny.. |
| 23:08.19 | Cide | I was laughing at you |
| 23:08.27 | Adys | I'm really not that funny |
| 23:08.39 | Cide | exactly |
| 23:16.24 | Fisker | slaps Cide around a bit with a large trout |
| 23:23.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Guest28647 (~dandroid@rrcs-97-77-51-243.sw.biz.rr.com) |
| 23:33.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (~Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 23:38.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (~Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:38.03 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 23:39.06 | *** join/#wowuidev inthedrops (~chatzilla@c-76-29-92-142.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 23:42.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Wa (~wa@c-24-22-87-1.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
