| 00:00.21 | Kandoko | wereHamster: GetInboxHeaderInfo(n) and GetInboxHeaderInfo(n) |
| 00:00.57 | Kandoko | GetInboxInvoiceInfo(n) I ment :P |
| 00:01.28 | Xinhuan | postal grabs the information too |
| 00:01.37 | Xinhuan | and produces the text version of it in code (lol) |
| 00:01.45 | Kandoko | Invoice is only available after a GetInboxText() call |
| 00:01.53 | Xinhuan | correcr |
| 00:02.38 | wereHamster | will look up the postal addon |
| 00:03.15 | Kandoko | goes back to lurking and his hatred of the WOW mail system and dreaming of blizzard provided global auction UID's. |
| 00:07.18 | wereHamster | what about the web interface for the acution house, does tnat not provide additional information not available through the ingame api? |
| 00:08.08 | Dagmar | As far as I know the game doesn't hold anything back |
| 00:08.10 | Kandoko | Si, but addons can't use the extra info the web app has. and its not provided ingame |
| 00:08.44 | Kandoko | nvm, thought that was directed at me |
| 00:08.52 | wereHamster | does the web api provide uids? |
| 00:09.11 | Kandoko | Yes or so I've been told, I havnt used it myself. |
| 00:11.13 | wereHamster | oh, and GetInboxInvoiceInfo() returns the item name, not item id :( |
| 00:12.21 | Kandoko | local itemLink = GetInboxItemLink(n, 1) |
| 00:12.34 | Kandoko | or 2,3 etc for the other slots |
| 00:12.38 | wereHamster | that's the attached item. No the one from the invoice |
| 00:12.51 | Kandoko | Outbids only have a name |
| 00:13.13 | wereHamster | and mails which you receive after you've sold an item |
| 00:13.26 | wereHamster | invoiceType==seller |
| 00:13.27 | Kandoko | That's why I have to go through so much pita guessing and recording all bids a player makes in beancounter |
| 00:14.13 | Shirik | .... |
| 00:14.18 | Shirik | I'm looking at my auto bill online |
| 00:14.27 | Shirik | and there's this link "Bill details" so I click it |
| 00:14.34 | Shirik | and it pops up, very nice, and then on the right side |
| 00:14.38 | Kandoko | Each type of AH mail has its own bits of data that can be pulled. some exist some doesn't Completed, sold, won, failed, canceled |
| 00:14.42 | Shirik | "How do I read a bill details?" |
| 00:14.55 | Shirik | I think someone was either very lazy or over-generalized |
| 00:14.56 | Jamash | Shirik: How I mine for fish? |
| 00:15.17 | Kandoko | How do I comment in IRC Shirik? |
| 00:15.26 | Jamash | also what's the least annoying non-gathering tradeskill to level? |
| 00:16.08 | Kandoko | How much gold to care to spend Jamash. The more gold == less annoying to level |
| 00:16.14 | Jamash | none gold |
| 00:16.24 | Jamash | I mean to level while leveling a character |
| 00:16.52 | Jamash | 'cause I'm thinking alchemy |
| 00:17.02 | Kandoko | Tailoring? use the cloth that farming gonna drop. Thou I doubt you will get enough with the speed we level nowadays |
| 00:17.24 | Kandoko | Ahh if you have the gathering skill to pair up with it yes |
| 00:18.02 | Jamash | currently I have skinning/herbalism on my level 24 druid which feels kind of stupid |
| 00:19.51 | Jamash | also you can't have too many alchemists |
| 00:20.23 | Kandoko | herb/inscription ? |
| 00:21.11 | Jamash | I have a scribe with every glyph |
| 00:22.35 | Jamash | I have 85s with herbalism, inscription, skinning, leatherworking, enchanting, tailoring and alchemy already |
| 00:28.24 | batbot | Shirik cannot destroy me. |
| 00:39.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Sapu94 (~Sapu94@c-98-234-113-181.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 00:44.45 | Xyphoid | you pretty much outlevel everything now, and old world mats are so cheap that it's hardly worth diverting |
| 00:45.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide1 (~Cide@s213-103-219-177.cust.tele2.se) |
| 00:52.08 | Cide1 | ohi |
| 00:54.44 | mckenziemc1 | hello |
| 01:30.02 | wereHamster | what's the difference between 'mails in inbox' and 'mails on the server'? |
| 01:30.55 | mckenziemc | only 50 show in the inbox |
| 01:31.27 | mckenziemc | but you can actually have many more than that |
| 01:36.37 | *** join/#wowuidev qwesto (qwesto@stalin.acc.umu.se) |
| 01:37.02 | *** part/#wowuidev qwesto (qwesto@stalin.acc.umu.se) |
| 01:44.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Jayle (~Ilorin@67-197-17-35.rh1.dyn.cm.comporium.net) |
| 01:44.35 | wereHamster | <Kandoko> Invoice is only available after a GetInboxText() call |
| 01:44.44 | wereHamster | is that documented somewhere? |
| 01:46.33 | Kandoko | No, just from my testing many patches ago. The invoice api/message body's were only retrieved from the server after a mail had been marked read (GetInboxText) |
| 01:46.59 | Kandoko | There also sluggish at sending the data sometimes so you have to wait/loop |
| 01:47.59 | wereHamster | is GetInboxText() sluggish or other functions? |
| 01:50.31 | Kandoko | Order of events. GetInboxHeaderInfo(n) instant call GetInboxText(n) instant wait while server sends the actual mail bodys to your client then GetInboxInvoiceInfo(n) |
| 01:51.10 | Kandoko | The server may send body quickly or may never send it on bad patch days |
| 01:52.52 | Kandoko | GetInboxText may not be instant :P I don't actually use its returns. |
| 02:00.49 | wereHamster | Kandoko: can I take a look at your addon source? |
| 02:03.32 | Kandoko | http://fisheye.norganna.org/browse/Auctioneer/trunk/BeanCounter/BeanCounterMail.lua?r1=4904&r2=4904&u=3 this not pretty |
| 02:19.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (~Kandoko@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 02:19.55 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 02:20.23 | kd3 | patching now, emails out in a few |
| 02:20.45 | mckenziemc | emails? |
| 02:21.06 | kd3 | I send diffs of the interface for every ptr/beta/live build. |
| 02:21.19 | kd3 | if you want a copy, /msg me your email address |
| 02:21.53 | mckenziemc | ah |
| 02:28.04 | kd3 | taps his foot, waiting for "non-critical update" to finish... |
| 02:32.27 | kd3 | cripes; 10k line diff this build |
| 02:35.34 | Adys | Fisker: http://i.imgur.com/a5J9B.png |
| 02:52.22 | kd3 | emails away |
| 02:56.27 | Adys | kd3: whats navbar? |
| 02:56.45 | kd3 | I dunno. I was looking at it for a good minute and couldn't figure out what it's for |
| 02:56.53 | Adys | can you paste? |
| 02:56.58 | kd3 | sec |
| 02:57.48 | kd3 | http://wowi.pastey.net/148152 |
| 02:59.44 | Adys | kd3: got an xml? |
| 03:00.13 | kd3 | there isn't one |
| 03:00.41 | kd3 | rather, one didn't get shipped this build |
| 03:01.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Gsuz (~Gsuz@89-160-144-158.du.xdsl.is) |
| 03:01.22 | Adys | this vaguely looks like an ingame browser |
| 03:01.41 | Adys | could be a help browser or any document-like thing |
| 03:01.44 | Adys | but it makes no sense |
| 03:02.34 | Adys | cant really tell without an xml |
| 03:13.22 | Arrowmaster | what the hell, the computer just resigned against me on the 10th move in Go |
| 03:16.42 | Adys | it might be a trap |
| 03:17.31 | amro | Arrowmaster: it disapproves of your pebble handling technique |
| 03:17.56 | mckenziemc | i think he set the difficulty mode to ADHD |
| 03:19.24 | Arrowmaster | game after that it kicked my ass by over 20 points, then the next game it resigned again on the 14th move |
| 03:19.58 | Arrowmaster | but i boxed it in good on that game |
| 03:22.51 | kd3 | wtf: http://shop.harcoslabs.com/collections/all-products/products/tiger-blood |
| 03:29.32 | Arrowmaster | ok what the hell, it keeps kicking my ass then resigning the next game |
| 03:33.27 | Adys | kd3: ever had issues with flash? |
| 03:33.33 | Adys | hm |
| 03:33.39 | Arrowmaster | it just beat me by 88.5 points =( |
| 03:33.40 | Adys | now i realize thats a stupid question |
| 03:33.47 | kd3 | ...was going to say |
| 03:34.03 | Adys | kd3: like flash blending on black textures on the screen |
| 03:34.15 | Adys | through applications |
| 03:34.22 | kd3 | oh, that? yes. drives me nuts. have to restart X to get it to go away |
| 03:34.31 | Adys | seriously? |
| 03:34.32 | kd3 | was worried it was my graphics card overheating |
| 03:34.37 | Adys | ive only started having that recently |
| 03:34.41 | kd3 | me too |
| 03:34.52 | Adys | at first i thought it was because i enabled hardware rendering in flash |
| 03:34.57 | Adys | but i disabled that, its still there |
| 03:35.44 | Adys | kd3: tip btw, to make it go away, killall -9 npviewer.bin :p |
| 03:35.56 | Adys | but it comes back when i restart flash so meh |
| 03:36.28 | Adys | if you find a fix im interested, its pretty much ungooglable |
| 03:36.46 | kd3 | will do |
| 03:37.32 | mckenziemc | "Founded on September 23, 1889[2] by Fusajiro Yamauchi, [Nintendo] produced handmade hanafuda cards.[6] By 1963, the company had tried several small niche businesses, such as a cab company and a love hotel.[7] Nintendo developed into a video game company, becoming one of the most influential in the industry, and Japan's third most valuable listed company, with a market value of over US$85 billion." |
| 03:38.11 | Adys | they could have made so much more money if they'd just stayed a love hotel |
| 03:38.18 | mckenziemc | hehe |
| 03:38.34 | amro | daily dose of weird: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcfI0gf9oDc |
| 03:39.25 | Adys | does chrome support playing mp4 files? |
| 03:55.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Droolio (~drool@87-194-15-41.bethere.co.uk) |
| 03:55.32 | Sixen | Adys: link me an mp4, I can check real quick |
| 03:56.33 | mckenziemc | http://afakewebsite.com/afakefile.mp3 |
| 03:56.47 | mckenziemc | http://afakewebsite.com/afakefile.mp4 * |
| 03:58.15 | Adys | Sixen: checked, it does |
| 03:58.19 | Adys | but thanks |
| 03:58.39 | Sixen | Oh, OK. |
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| 04:11.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@5ad71159.bb.sky.com) |
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| 04:42.38 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 04:44.26 | mckenziemc | hmm |
| 04:44.34 | mckenziemc | the notation "base 10" is ironic |
| 04:44.56 | Arrowmaster | why? |
| 04:44.59 | Adys | .. why? |
| 04:45.45 | mckenziemc | i mean any base > 9, and because it uses the decimal system to denote the number |
| 04:46.17 | amro | there's no irony |
| 04:46.23 | Adys | you misunderstand the concept of bases |
| 04:46.24 | Adys | and irony |
| 04:46.32 | mckenziemc | i disagree |
| 04:46.43 | Adys | you also misunderstand the concept of agreement |
| 04:46.54 | mckenziemc | evidently you do : / |
| 04:47.25 | mckenziemc | i don't expect the base to be written in the given system, but if we were using a base 20 system, "base 10" would refer to something completely different |
| 04:47.49 | amro | yeah, so would the date and every number ever |
| 04:48.16 | mckenziemc | yeah, but they don't refer to bases |
| 04:48.29 | mckenziemc | hence the lack of irony there |
| 04:48.38 | Adys | there's no irony |
| 04:48.45 | amro | there's no irony anywhere |
| 04:48.51 | Cide1 | no... |
| 04:48.56 | Adys | not even at tekkub's place |
| 04:48.58 | Cide1 | a base is absolute |
| 04:48.59 | Adys | and that's pretty ironic |
| 04:49.12 | Cide1 | you don't have base 20 "relative to base 10" |
| 04:49.15 | mckenziemc | yes cide, but not the notation |
| 04:49.20 | amro | "base 10" never means binary |
| 04:49.23 | Adys | mckenziemc: in an english context, which the very word "base" implies, a decimal base is used to denote any numeric unless otherwise implied |
| 04:49.23 | Cide1 | the notation is irrelevant |
| 04:49.38 | mckenziemc | Cide1: thing is, i'm referring to the notation |
| 04:49.47 | Adys | the notation is in english |
| 04:49.50 | Cide1 | base 20 means "numbers written in a notation with 20 symbols such that each position is a power of 20" |
| 04:49.55 | Cide1 | basically |
| 04:49.57 | mckenziemc | no Adys, the concept of "base" is not part of English |
| 04:50.11 | Cide1 | "20" here refers to the number we understand to be 20, not "two zero" |
| 04:50.14 | Cide1 | you are retarded and gtfo |
| 04:50.14 | Adys | it very much is |
| 04:50.28 | Adys | ~cide++ |
| 04:50.35 | Cide1 | it's pointless discussing math with a troll |
| 04:50.41 | Adys | or an idiot |
| 04:50.42 | mckenziemc | i'm not trolling |
| 04:50.49 | Cide1 | then you're not very educated in mathematics |
| 04:51.24 | mckenziemc | (9:50:09 PM) Cide1: "20" here refers to the number we understand to be 20, not "two zero" <-- because we use a base 10 system |
| 04:51.47 | mckenziemc | and it's not a lack of education in math, it's the willingness to look at things in unusual ways |
| 04:51.51 | amro | it's ironic that we call this planet earth |
| 04:51.53 | amro | cause if we lived on mars |
| 04:51.55 | Iriel | I think the problem has nothing to do with 'base' and everything to do with anyone who things in NORMAL CONVERSATION a number is anything but base 10 |
| 04:51.55 | amro | we'd call it mars |
| 04:51.57 | Iriel | (ten) |
| 04:52.15 | Cide1 | when you write 20 as a number, you don't refer to the unique notation "20" to be some special number. you write "20" to mean the number we commonly refer to as 20, which can be expressed in tons of other ways (40/2, 20/1, 10/0.5, 0x14, s(s(s(s(s(...s(0)...) |
| 04:52.22 | mckenziemc | if we called it "base ten" there would be no irony |
| 04:52.41 | mckenziemc | same underlying value, unambigous notation |
| 04:52.43 | Adys | mckenziemc: as i said above, in an english context, which the fact the numeric 10 is preceded by an english word implies, numerics are treated in a decimal base unless otherwise specified |
| 04:52.46 | Adys | theres no ambiguity |
| 04:52.54 | Iriel | agrees with Adys |
| 04:52.55 | Cide1 | when we write a sequence of numbers we usually represent numbers in base 10 unless otherwise noted or understood from context |
| 04:53.06 | Dagmar | decimal system... for a base... |
| 04:53.13 | Dagmar | Put down the bong. |
| 04:53.22 | Adys | Put down my dong Dagmar |
| 04:53.27 | amro | mckenziemc: by your logic, that would still be ambiguous. it could still be 10 in a >10 base |
| 04:53.31 | mckenziemc | I agree Adys in practice, but the notation still relies on the use of 10 as a convention |
| 04:53.41 | amro | yeah like every fucking human being |
| 04:53.44 | amro | quit trolling |
| 04:53.47 | Adys | it's not a convention, it's an english rule |
| 04:54.00 | Iriel | base 0x20 |
| 04:54.01 | Iriel | is probably going to be interpreted by most as equivalent to base 32 |
| 04:54.05 | mckenziemc | there are no rules in natural languages |
| 04:54.05 | Cide1 | you can write base s(s(s(s(s(s(s(s(s(0))))))))) if you want |
| 04:54.17 | amro | mckenziemc has 12 fingers |
| 04:54.23 | amro | base10 is foreign to him |
| 04:54.27 | Adys | mckenziemc: yes, there are, apparently you're failing at both math AND language :P |
| 04:54.35 | Dagmar | Well, it's never going to be a fractional number, that's for damn sure |
| 04:54.36 | mckenziemc | or you are |
| 04:54.38 | Iriel | If your electric company sends you a bill for $100 you dont send them a check for four dollars because "you thought they were using binary" |
| 04:54.58 | mckenziemc | Iriel: wrong context |
| 04:55.05 | amro | mckenziemc: quit trolling |
| 04:55.09 | mckenziemc | i'm not |
| 04:55.10 | Iriel | It's absolutely NOT the wrong context |
| 04:55.12 | amro | there's no way you're this thick |
| 04:55.16 | amro | and if you are |
| 04:55.18 | amro | stop talking |
| 04:55.22 | Iriel | it's general communication |
| 04:55.23 | mckenziemc | no, you're right, it's because you're thick |
| 04:55.27 | Adys | amro: ive flagged him as an idiot months ago, my money's on him being this thick |
| 04:55.59 | Adys | (no offense) |
| 04:56.14 | Cide1 | (none taken) |
| 04:56.27 | Adys | i wasnt talking to you, dirtbag |
| 04:56.27 | mckenziemc | meh, herecy is often confused with idiocy :p |
| 04:56.39 | amro | you mean heresy? |
| 04:56.40 | Cide1 | you have a point hidden somewhere but not really |
| 04:56.42 | mckenziemc | err |
| 04:56.43 | Dagmar | Please learn to spell. |
| 04:56.50 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (~bluspacec@60-234-165-167.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) |
| 04:56.50 | mckenziemc | yes i was about to correct myself |
| 04:56.50 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 04:56.59 | mckenziemc | now that's trolling |
| 04:57.13 | Adys | mckenziemc: idiocy is often confused with wit by the ones vomiting it |
| 04:57.27 | mckenziemc | good thing i don't think of it as wit |
| 04:57.35 | Cide1 | you're talking about the fact that in order to define clearly what specific number you're talking about given a notation such as "10", we should specify what base it is in: "10 (base X)" |
| 04:57.39 | Arrowmaster | theres a reason we have special ways of denoting other number systems |
| 04:57.47 | Cide1 | the problem comes when X is a number and we have to interpret it in a base too |
| 04:57.53 | cogwheel | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect |
| 04:57.54 | mckenziemc | yes |
| 04:58.06 | cogwheel | coughs |
| 04:58.10 | Cide1 | so to be fully clear we would have to express it as "10 (base 10 (base 10 (base ..." |
| 04:58.15 | Adys | cogwheel: i was looking for that |
| 04:58.23 | Shirik | 10 base T |
| 04:58.31 | mckenziemc | what i'm saying is that it's ironic that it has to be denoted using the conventional base 10 system, rather than some "pure" orthoganal primitive |
| 04:58.34 | Cide1 | but since we are human beings and have a sense of intelligence we can come up with a standard |
| 04:58.40 | Dagmar | Cide1: I think 808 State did a song about that |
| 04:58.47 | Dagmar | ;) |
| 04:58.48 | Cide1 | no idea wtf you're talking about |
| 04:58.52 | mckenziemc | Cide1: there are other numeral systems besides positional notation |
| 04:58.58 | Cide1 | and nobody cares |
| 04:59.07 | mckenziemc | evidently.... |
| 04:59.11 | Shirik | 100 base |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| |
| 04:59.16 | amro | it doesn't have to be, it just is |
| 04:59.43 | Adys | mckenziemc: you have three things to learn here |
| 04:59.46 | Dagmar | Ah no wait... it's 10x10 |
| 05:00.03 | Shirik | What I really want to know is language evolved because we didn't all come from the same place |
| 05:00.12 | Shirik | yet we all invented a base 10 system |
| 05:00.16 | amro | 10 fingers |
| 05:00.18 | amro | duh |
| 05:00.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Joschasa_ (~Joschasa@p5799CE7B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 05:00.25 | Shirik | so why not base |
| 05:00.26 | Shirik | 5 |
| 05:00.26 | Dagmar | Shirik: Umm.. No? |
| 05:00.36 | amro | because you have 2 hands |
| 05:00.36 | Cide1 | however, you can uniquely represent a number in any base using several notations |
| 05:00.38 | mckenziemc | since we are human beings and have a sense of intelligence, we tend to forget we are not omniscient and respond with arrogant dismissal when an unusual idea is given |
| 05:00.43 | Dagmar | We didn't "all" invent the same system |
| 05:00.44 | Shirik | so why not base 25 |
| 05:00.47 | Dagmar | The one system just spread |
| 05:00.52 | Cide1 | like the set theoretic notation of numbers or with the successor function |
| 05:00.57 | amro | you have 25 fingers? |
| 05:01.00 | Shirik | yes |
| 05:01.02 | mckenziemc | (10:00:02 PM) Shirik: What I really want to know is language evolved because we didn't all come from the same place |
| 05:01.03 | mckenziemc | (10:00:11 PM) Shirik: yet we all invented a base 10 system |
| 05:01.03 | Adys | mckenziemc: 1. English, as well as many other languages, define the "default" numeric base as part of themselves. 2. Bases are purely theoretical and don't exist on a further level. 3. When you're wrong and/or clueless, it's a bad idea to open your mouth in a room full of people smarter than you, just to tell them you're smarter than them |
| 05:01.08 | Dagmar | It was not always a matter of everyone using the same system. |
| 05:01.12 | Dagmar | Zero's kinda new, in fact. |
| 05:01.14 | durcyn | explain roman numerals, Shirik |
| 05:01.23 | mckenziemc | we didn't, there are examples of 5, 8, 12, 20, and 60 as bases |
| 05:01.30 | Arrowmaster | mckenziemc: would you prefer 'base â
¡' 'base â
§' 'base â
©' and 'base â
©â
¥'? |
| 05:01.35 | mckenziemc | in real civilizations |
| 05:01.37 | Shirik | I don't think roman numerals have a reasonable "base" |
| 05:01.55 | Iriel | They're essentially base 10 |
| 05:01.57 | mckenziemc | right, because they're not positional numbering systems |
| 05:01.59 | Dagmar | mckenziemc: Engineers and mathematicians with too much free time invented sexsigesimal afaik so it don't count. |
| 05:02.08 | Iriel | (roman numerals) |
| 05:02.18 | Iriel | REAL roman numerals dont do the IX thing either |
| 05:02.23 | Dagmar | What? Might as well argue they're base-5 |
| 05:02.27 | mckenziemc | Dagmar: i don't know if i agree with that or not |
| 05:02.30 | Shirik | really? Is that why my grandmother's clock says IIII |
| 05:02.30 | Iriel | They just go I II III IIII V VI VII VIII VIIII X |
| 05:02.39 | Shirik | I always wondered that |
| 05:02.41 | cogwheel | We should reverse the symbols for electric charge imo |
| 05:02.50 | Iriel | Shirik: so said a textbook on number systems I read back in university |
| 05:02.54 | cogwheel | and start using tau instead of pi |
| 05:02.54 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: theres a different reason for that |
| 05:02.57 | Dagmar | Roman numerals don't follow a um... powering order |
| 05:03.03 | mckenziemc | i don't know enough about babylonian systems, but obviously their use of it for time and angles has had an impact on everyone |
| 05:03.08 | Adys | Shirik: roman numerals are not a base by the very sense of a base |
| 05:03.29 | Iriel | Dagmar: they do follow a powering order, if you consider symbols in pairs |
| 05:03.34 | Iriel | there's a 1 5 10 50 100 500 |
| 05:03.42 | Dagmar | Yeah but 4 is generally written as one from five |
| 05:03.50 | Iriel | Only in "modern" times |
| 05:03.51 | Adys | Iriel: you'd have to define the base as an array of numbers |
| 05:04.10 | Dagmar | In older times as well |
| 05:04.12 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: ive heard that clocks have IIII on them because of something to do with balance of the number of lines in each number |
| 05:04.31 | Dagmar | I suspect maybe the romans figured if you needed to know you knew which system was being used, but I'm not a historian |
| 05:05.07 | Iriel | Dagmar: wikipedia backs me up |
| 05:05.26 | Arrowmaster | theres also a 1000 |
| 05:05.29 | mckenziemc | WG is up, later |
| 05:05.52 | Dagmar | Wikipedia also mentions tons of aberrant cases |
| 05:06.11 | Iriel | Right, but they're within the last 1000 years or so |
| 05:06.15 | Iriel | so they're "modern" |
| 05:06.44 | Dagmar | I've seen a picture of a rather ancient roman clock that used IX |
| 05:07.28 | Arrowmaster | how old? |
| 05:07.35 | Dagmar | I'm guessing one problem is that no one really gave _that_ much of a damn about math as a discipline to make detailed record of WTF was thought supposed to happen |
| 05:07.36 | Arrowmaster | was it over ââ years old? |
| 05:07.41 | Adys | lol |
| 05:07.43 | *** join/#wowuidev oro (~thomas@83.101.79.6) |
| 05:08.18 | amro | matryoshka pills? |
| 05:08.30 | Arrowmaster | youll laugh when you figure it out |
| 05:08.57 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: I wish I could even find the damn thing again |
| 05:09.11 | amro | 9000 |
| 05:09.19 | Dagmar | I came across it when someone on IRC was making a typically thick argument that "AM/PM" was "stupid" |
| 05:09.33 | amro | you're not allowed to add anything after that though, so points off |
| 05:09.36 | Dagmar | My sociology classes, I paid attention in |
| 05:10.10 | Dagmar | No idea why since sociology doesn't really pay much money, but I didn't find them boring at any rate |
| 05:11.02 | mckenziemc | btw |
| 05:11.31 | Adys | go back to your WG, we were happy |
| 05:11.35 | mckenziemc | how did Einstein come up with the theory of relativity? because it surely wasn't through thinking of things in conventional terms |
| 05:11.56 | Adys | mckenziemc: you're not einstein, get over it |
| 05:12.06 | Cide1 | and your thinking is not unconventional |
| 05:12.08 | Arrowmaster | he stole it |
| 05:12.17 | amro | from the winklevoss twins |
| 05:12.18 | Cide1 | I got what you were trying to say (but failed) in seconds |
| 05:12.20 | mckenziemc | Adys: and i'm not saying i am |
| 05:12.20 | cogwheel | einstein came up with a different way of thinking about existing observations |
| 05:12.24 | Cide1 | it was just stupid |
| 05:12.27 | Dagmar | cogwheel++ |
| 05:12.52 | Adys | mckenziemc: I'm not saying you're saying it, i'm warning you for your own good |
| 05:12.57 | Adys | you think you're einstein |
| 05:12.59 | mckenziemc | see, you can't even handle an argument without using the same common mistakes |
| 05:13.01 | Adys | and that's bad |
| 05:13.02 | mckenziemc | i don't |
| 05:13.14 | Adys | please don't lie to yourself, it's pathetic |
| 05:13.26 | mckenziemc | the fact you have that idea is bad |
| 05:13.34 | mckenziemc | because that's another common mistake of debate |
| 05:13.40 | Arrowmaster | no seriously http://www.cracked.com/article_16072_5-famous-inventors-who-stole-their-big-idea.html |
| 05:13.41 | Iriel | Why's everyone so hostile this evening? |
| 05:13.44 | Adys | mckenziemc: you said it yourself :) |
| 05:13.44 | Arrowmaster | he stole it |
| 05:13.54 | Adys | Iriel: I'm not hostile; look, a smilieface! |
| 05:13.56 | Cide1 | I'm sick |
| 05:13.59 | Cide1 | but |
| 05:14.00 | mckenziemc | nope Adys |
| 05:14.04 | Cide1 | I guess I'm usually hostile |
| 05:14.10 | mckenziemc | like i said, you're making the same old common mistake |
| 05:14.11 | Cide1 | sick or not |
| 05:14.55 | cogwheel | Adys: i'm actually with mckenziemc on this one specific point, but it does nothing to support his position ;) |
| 05:15.04 | cogwheel | (for the reason i pointed out above) |
| 05:15.05 | airtonix | Iriel: i will destroy you |
| 05:15.06 | Adys | cogwheel: which point? |
| 05:15.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Esamynn|Away (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Esamynn) |
| 05:15.09 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Esamynn|Away] by ChanServ |
| 05:15.18 | cogwheel | that you can't assume he thinks he's (equivalent to) einstein |
| 05:15.28 | Adys | cogwheel: you gotta scrollup ;p |
| 05:15.30 | Cide1 | superior is not equivalent |
| 05:15.32 | Cide1 | amirite |
| 05:15.34 | airtonix | triggers mckenziemc into a critical mass |
| 05:15.37 | cogwheel | given what he's said |
| 05:15.47 | cogwheel | he was making an analogy |
| 05:15.51 | Iriel | I'm with cogwheel and mckenziemc on that one point also |
| 05:15.54 | cogwheel | which taken at face value was valid |
| 05:16.03 | cogwheel | though it didn't really say what he thought it said |
| 05:16.42 | Adys | cogwheel: oh i agree with the analogy |
| 05:17.00 | *** join/#wowuidev mascondante (~mascondan@pool-72-71-101-83.atl01.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 05:17.08 | Adys | but it's in *no way* comparable |
| 05:17.38 | bluspacecow | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:17.48 | cogwheel | like i said ;) |
| 05:17.51 | airtonix | next on the discussion agenda, "Thumbtacks and the Practical Engineering Techniques of Time Machines" |
| 05:17.52 | amro | Arrowmaster: relativity was an invention? |
| 05:18.01 | cogwheel | the theory of it was |
| 05:18.02 | amro | I should go to cracked for all my astrophysics needs |
| 05:18.05 | Adys | cogwheel: all this blabber is about a misconception, not a point of view |
| 05:18.38 | cogwheel | yep. that's what i was illustrating with my comment that got a ++ from dagmar ;) |
| 05:18.40 | Adys | cogwheel: it's like arguing the earth is flat because a sphere can be seen as a flat plane in a specific context |
| 05:19.12 | *** part/#wowuidev ajajay (~jay@adsl-69-231-228-125.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 05:19.22 | Adys | (which can still be argued a lot better than this crap) |
| 05:19.27 | amro | cogwheel: I disagree (on invention) |
| 05:19.30 | cogwheel | i don't think either is entirely accurate |
| 05:19.50 | Adys | ok, call me dumb but i cant follow six discussions at once |
| 05:19.52 | cogwheel | amro: he invented the framework of ideas that he then communicated to others |
| 05:19.53 | Adys | afk! |
| 05:21.34 | amro | cogwheel: the term has multiple meanings |
| 05:21.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Slackwise (~slackwise@c-24-14-146-100.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 05:21.39 | amro | you can also invent a story |
| 05:21.50 | amro | but you wouldn't list a story in a list of other inventions such as the telepohone |
| 05:22.26 | cogwheel | the framework of ideas provide tools to predict the behavior of ... lots of things |
| 05:22.38 | Adys | amro: you wouldnt bring the story in the policeman's helmet to the policeman's grieving window |
| 05:22.44 | Adys | wow |
| 05:22.45 | Adys | widow |
| 05:22.54 | amro | his window misses him as well |
| 05:23.09 | Adys | better than him missing his window |
| 05:23.22 | Adys | >o;-!O |
| 05:23.39 | Adys | fuck, i used to do that smiley so much better. |
| 05:24.07 | mckenziemc | in 3d graphics, an object is typically created by plane figures as primitives, plane figures are created by combining triangles, and triangles are created by defining line segments. In each case the more complicated item is built from simpler, incomparable items. My claim is that the use of the decimal numeric system in indicating base is ironic, not because it's impractical or unconventional (it's neither) but because it |
| 05:24.15 | mckenziemc | it's a circular definition |
| 05:24.25 | Adys | why are you still here? |
| 05:24.40 | mckenziemc | why are you still here? |
| 05:24.48 | Adys | i went to get a yoghurt, I came back |
| 05:25.06 | amro | mckenziemc: you've failed to present a valid alternative that doesn't suffer from the same issue |
| 05:25.21 | mckenziemc | amro: and why is that necessary |
| 05:25.31 | mckenziemc | i said it's ironic, not undesirable |
| 05:25.53 | Adys | mckenziemc: it's only necessary if you don't want to look foolish, which you dont seem to care about, otherwise, you'd have left |
| 05:26.12 | Adys | but apart from that detail, making sure the points you debate on are valid is optional |
| 05:26.13 | mckenziemc | there IS an alternative that doesn't suffer the same issue, but it's impractical and suffers a different issue |
| 05:26.51 | mckenziemc | Ayds: a better alternative does not have to exist in order for something to be "ironic" |
| 05:26.58 | amro | mckenziemc: it's necessary because you initially claimed "base ten" as an alternative |
| 05:27.07 | mckenziemc | i did not |
| 05:27.14 | amro | I don't even want to scroll up |
| 05:27.44 | Adys | mckenziemc: Im not even talking about a better alternative. I'm just saying, you've failed to present your case a valid way |
| 05:27.50 | mckenziemc | i did say that, but you're taking it out of context |
| 05:28.42 | mckenziemc | firstly: |
| 05:28.42 | mckenziemc | 10:25:05 PM) amro: mckenziemc: you've failed to present a valid alternative that doesn't suffer from the same issue |
| 05:28.43 | mckenziemc | it doesn't suffer from the same issue |
| 05:28.47 | mckenziemc | second |
| 05:28.59 | mckenziemc | we're not talking about replacing it, we're talking about its irony |
| 05:29.06 | mckenziemc | let me rephrase that |
| 05:29.15 | amro | [05:52] <mckenziemc> if we called it "base ten" there would be no irony |
| 05:29.15 | Dagmar | That word... I do not think it means what you think it means. |
| 05:29.18 | mckenziemc | the point i'm making is not that it should be replaced, but that it's ironic |
| 05:29.27 | Adys | mckenziemc: you can keep trying (and failing) to argue your point and eventually get kicked as troll, or you still have the option to just dropping it |
| 05:29.29 | mckenziemc | amro: out of context |
| 05:29.35 | amro | I give up |
| 05:29.43 | mckenziemc | Adys: you can drop it too |
| 05:29.54 | Adys | Oh no, I wouldn't, I enjoy seeing you look foolish |
| 05:30.29 | Cairenn | ... |
| 05:30.32 | mckenziemc | the fact you put "failing" in "you can keep trying (and failing)" indicates you don't want to drop it either |
| 05:31.10 | Adys | you really dont have me convinced you can successfully make your point. if you manage to prove me wrong, i grant you sexual favours |
| 05:31.29 | cogwheel | i wonder if you can prove something is ironic or not... |
| 05:31.56 | mckenziemc | Adys: it could be any of multiple reasons that i'm not successfully making my point. Frankly, I believe it's one that's out of my control |
| 05:32.37 | amro | cogwheel: likely not, I'm commenting on the fact that he said "base ten" would be different |
| 05:32.43 | amro | when it's no different at all |
| 05:33.03 | cogwheel | seems different to me... |
| 05:33.09 | cogwheel | at least when written |
| 05:33.09 | Adys | cogwheel: it's not |
| 05:33.10 | mckenziemc | hehe |
| 05:33.13 | amro | it just looks different |
| 05:33.15 | amro | the meaning is the same |
| 05:33.17 | cogwheel | yes |
| 05:33.22 | mckenziemc | no |
| 05:33.30 | mckenziemc | 10 means ten, ten does not mean 10 |
| 05:33.33 | cogwheel | no, that is true |
| 05:33.39 | Adys | it's a bit like the girl you sleep with, very late at night, completely drunk out of your mind, and the one you wake up to the next day |
| 05:33.42 | Adys | they just look different |
| 05:33.46 | cogwheel | but mckenziemc isn't commenting on the meaning |
| 05:33.48 | Adys | they really are one and the same. |
| 05:33.51 | amro | ten is a way of reading 10 |
| 05:33.53 | cogwheel | he's commenting on the representation |
| 05:34.00 | amro | it's the same representation |
| 05:34.04 | cogwheel | ... |
| 05:34.05 | amro | just written diffrently |
| 05:34.10 | cogwheel | now you're the troll |
| 05:34.15 | mckenziemc | 10 is the way to represent ten, in decimal |
| 05:34.18 | mckenziemc | they are not the same |
| 05:34.34 | cogwheel | by definition 10 and ten are different representations |
| 05:35.22 | Adys | cogwheel: you're both right, but you're arguing a different point |
| 05:35.36 | Adys | 10 is the same as ten, and 10 isn't the same as 10, it depends on context |
| 05:35.40 | cogwheel | no, you're the one whose been arguing a different point. |
| 05:35.53 | Adys | yeah, openly :P |
| 05:36.01 | cogwheel | it's just that mckenziemc hasn't been able to articulate his position very well |
| 05:36.07 | cogwheel | i'm just trying to provide some balance |
| 05:36.35 | bluspacecow | *basks in the warmth of geek debate* |
| 05:36.46 | amro | cogwheel: how would you read 10 in hex? |
| 05:37.21 | bluspacecow | very carefully. |
| 05:37.42 | cogwheel | amro: besides the red herring, that's kind of a nonsense question... |
| 05:37.48 | mckenziemc | ty cogwheel |
| 05:37.52 | amro | fine, don't let me make my point |
| 05:38.26 | bluspacecow | is it pointy ? |
| 05:38.56 | Adys | cogwheel: it's nice of you to try provide balance, but you're stuck on a single point which both amro and i aren't arguing |
| 05:39.07 | amro | "ten", by default, is assumed to be the number 10 everyone means.it doesn't mean that in every context |
| 05:39.26 | mckenziemc | again, backwards |
| 05:39.29 | amro | I could be reading 10 in any base > 10 |
| 05:39.34 | cogwheel | Adys: yes, and the point you and amro ARE arguing isn't relevant to mckenziemc's original statement |
| 05:39.37 | amro | reading "ten", sorry |
| 05:39.56 | amro | cogwheel: right now, I'm talking about a very specific statement that I pasted above |
| 05:40.08 | amro | I'm not interesting on what bearing it has on what else he was trying to say |
| 05:40.14 | amro | interested* |
| 05:40.23 | amro | interested in* damn I need sleep |
| 05:40.31 | Adys | cogwheel: why should it be? we're arguing something different from a while back, mckenziemc's point was proven moot a while back and it's stupid to keep trying to argue with him |
| 05:40.36 | bluspacecow | *giefs a sleep to amro* |
| 05:40.40 | Xinhuan | wow youtube has a switch on all videos to "turn off the lights" for earth hour, cool! |
| 05:40.50 | Xinhuan | it changes the background to black, and the text to white |
| 05:40.57 | cogwheel | 22:29 < amro> [05:52] <mckenziemc> if we called it "base ten" there would be no irony |
| 05:40.58 | mckenziemc | just like you weren't focused on the original statement i was trying to make, and rather tried to focus on some later support i added |
| 05:41.01 | cogwheel | that one? |
| 05:41.03 | amro | yes |
| 05:41.09 | cogwheel | yes exactly. |
| 05:41.15 | cogwheel | there is nothing to argue there |
| 05:41.23 | cogwheel | because he was specifically referring to the representation |
| 05:41.30 | mckenziemc | oops i started out sarcastic and changed mid sentence >.> |
| 05:41.45 | cogwheel | the irony is precisely in the juxtaposition of representation and meaning |
| 05:41.53 | cogwheel | and you keep going on about how they mean the same thing |
| 05:42.01 | cogwheel | which is a prerequisite for mckenziemc's point |
| 05:42.10 | cogwheel | so it's redundant |
| 05:42.39 | Dagmar | They're not opposites. |
| 05:42.44 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@adsl-226-96-82.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 05:42.56 | amro | cogwheel: his point is that base 10 is ironic because it would affect its own definition if you change what you mean by 10. base ten would also be ironic if you change the meaning of "ten" |
| 05:43.07 | cogwheel | no |
| 05:43.23 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-76-116-64-179.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 05:43.26 | Dagmar | "the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meanin" |
| 05:43.26 | cogwheel | or maybe |
| 05:43.34 | amro | =) |
| 05:43.37 | cogwheel | even if he is, it's still ironic in a more limited sense |
| 05:43.53 | cogwheel | and i'm right about that, so there! |
| 05:43.57 | amro | cogwheel: at this stage im not arguing whether it's ironic, I'm just saying that if it is, "base ten" would be no different |
| 05:44.25 | mckenziemc | (10:42:55 PM) amro: cogwheel: his point is that base 10 is ironic because it would affect its own definition if you change what you mean by 10. base ten would also be ironic if you change the meaning of "ten" <-- close but not quite |
| 05:44.35 | cogwheel | amro: no, because "base" implies the use of numerals |
| 05:44.47 | kd3 | wth, you guys are still on about this? |
| 05:45.04 | Dagmar | It's as "ironic" as saying you have ten tens, which could mean ten tens, or it could mean ten tens, or it could just be a complete load of bullshit that looks like something but isn't. |
| 05:45.07 | Adys | kd3: oh, they are, i just make sure it's still going on every few minutes |
| 05:45.24 | Dagmar | These things can be collectively referred to a 'the pengiun joke', I suspect |
| 05:45.32 | Dagmar | s/to a/to as/ |
| 05:45.36 | amro | cogwheel: I'll grant you the nuance, but I don't think it makes a difference in this case |
| 05:46.11 | mckenziemc | btw Adys, the reason i kept going on earlier is because of what cogwheel referred to when he said "mckenziemc hasn't been able to articulate his position very well" |
| 05:46.19 | cogwheel | well if that nuance was the basis of his point, you're being a bit silly to dismiss it and stick in your position that he's wrong :P |
| 05:46.33 | mckenziemc | i was hoping i could clarify my reasoning, but cogwheel has done a better job |
| 05:46.34 | Dagmar | That's a game you play in a bar where you entice someone to inquire about "the penguin joke" and you accept and then promptly embark upon a truly epic series of digressions in order to see how long the poor drunk bastard will put up with it before they fall over |
| 05:46.50 | mckenziemc | yes, teh nuance is the whole point |
| 05:47.42 | Dagmar | Cept it |
| 05:47.57 | cogwheel | "We maximize our reasonableness only insofar as we can drop the ego and see our âopponentsâ as teachers and our arguments as dialogues in which we collaborate in truth-seeking, rather than struggles for supremacy. To the enlightened thinker, itâs not about whoâs right so much as whatâs true." |
| 05:48.02 | Dagmar | Except that saying 'base 10' is math and math doesn't mess around with fuzzy English syntax |
| 05:48.25 | Adys | cogwheel: all i argued is a misunderstanding of both english and math taken as irony, it's in all possible ways super-childish |
| 05:48.27 | amro | cogwheel: yes cogwheel. I was always referring to what was said and not who |
| 05:48.46 | Adys | past that point i dont argue the meaning of irony |
| 05:48.50 | Adys | even i know better :p |
| 05:48.55 | cogwheel | Adys: your assertion of a misunderstanding is problematic |
| 05:49.04 | cogwheel | miscommunication, maybe |
| 05:49.05 | cogwheel | ;) |
| 05:49.47 | mckenziemc | Dagmar: math explains some things better than English; English explains some things better than math. The idea underlying "ten" falls in the latter category |
| 05:50.21 | Adys | cogwheel: like cide, i can understand the original point without further explanation, but it requires to break basic rules, set in stone |
| 05:50.25 | Dagmar | It's like calling a cube ironic because it's made of squares, man |
| 05:50.55 | cogwheel | not really |
| 05:51.34 | Wobin | tries to read scrollback |
| 05:51.39 | Wobin | gets a headache and gives up |
| 05:51.39 | Adys | dont |
| 05:51.41 | cogwheel | DON'T DO IT |
| 05:51.42 | Adys | told you |
| 05:51.47 | Dagmar | Wobid: I'd recommend against it |
| 05:52.11 | Wobin | takes the advice |
| 05:52.20 | Adys | good boy |
| 05:52.33 | cogwheel | Dagmar: i grant that it's not a very profound irony, but your analogy is truly non-ironic :P |
| 05:52.43 | Dagmar | TL;DR: Someone got excited because they saw that "base 10" also has a ten in it and thinks they saw god |
| 05:52.44 | Adys | i think that was the idea |
| 05:53.14 | amro | anyway mckenziemc, you said a few things that didn't even differentiate on the nuance you were trying to explain |
| 05:53.21 | cogwheel | Dagmar: nah... you're just projecting the intensity of the ensuing discussion onto mckenziemc's initial perception of the irony |
| 05:53.21 | amro | can't blame anyone for not understanding |
| 05:53.38 | Dagmar | cogwheel: Actually I'm being 180 proof sarcastic |
| 05:53.46 | cogwheel | zomg share |
| 05:53.49 | Dagmar | ...the tone just doesn't carry that well on IRC. heh |
| 05:54.03 | amro | cogwheel: http://www.zshare.net/ |
| 05:54.55 | Dagmar | Entirely aside from that, the penguin joke is a really fun game, but I'm pretty sure it makes you evil if you play it |
| 05:55.29 | mckenziemc | amro: that's the problem of language and assumptions on your side; it's not practical to expect anyone to communicate without nuance |
| 05:55.38 | mckenziemc | that's why you have to be careful with assumptions |
| 05:56.06 | mckenziemc | "on your side" only applies to the assumptions, not language, in that sentence |
| 05:56.08 | cogwheel | yeah, the one assumption i try to make is that i'm misunderstanding something |
| 05:56.22 | mckenziemc | ^ the safest way to do it |
| 05:56.31 | amro | I wasn't assuming much, you just did a horrible job of explaining |
| 05:56.42 | mckenziemc | instead of saying people are idiots or need to learn the underlying ideas |
| 05:56.44 | mckenziemc | no amro |
| 05:56.45 | amro | you focused on things that turned out to be irrelevant to your point (as I now understand it) |
| 05:56.52 | mckenziemc | you did a horrible job of assuming |
| 05:56.52 | cogwheel | which you keep pointing out dispite his humble acknowledgment... |
| 05:58.16 | mckenziemc | amro: only in response |
| 05:58.17 | cogwheel | amro: once you believed you understood where he was coming from, you kept arguing from that position rather than trying to see what he was actually saying |
| 05:58.17 | mckenziemc | i was explaining their irrelevance too at least some of the time... their mention does not indicate i was focusing on them |
| 05:58.18 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvaan (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 05:58.43 | amro | cogwheel: I didn't go out of my way to look for them, but that doesn't mean that I was closed to different explanations |
| 05:59.28 | *** join/#wowuidev mckenziemc1 (~Mark@dialup-4.246.253.157.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net) |
| 05:59.40 | cogwheel | no, but becouse you didn't go out of your way to check your premises, you didn't notice the clues |
| 05:59.41 | mckenziemc1 | i disconnected right after sylvaan joined |
| 05:59.56 | Adys | he joined years ago |
| 06:00.07 | mckenziemc1 | (10:58:07 PM) sylvaan [~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar] entered the room. |
| 06:00.34 | amro | cogwheel: I don't like to do all the legwork in arguments, I knew we were in disagreement because he was telling me we were, he just wasn't telling me why |
| 06:00.54 | mckenziemc1 | amro: unfortunaetly you have to do some legwork |
| 06:01.01 | mckenziemc1 | it's an inevitable part of communication |
| 06:01.15 | cogwheel | yeah... you sure were willing to do legwork to further your point |
| 06:01.24 | Adys | way to miss it |
| 06:01.30 | amro | ^ |
| 06:01.46 | amro | cogwheel: my objection was my way of showing where the miscommunication lied |
| 06:02.01 | mckenziemc1 | it's not practical nor even possible to expect the protagonist to know where you're confused, you have to be willing to ask |
| 06:02.05 | amro | cogwheel: it's an opportunity for him to correct it and thus convey his message accurately |
| 06:02.08 | amro | which I did |
| 06:02.11 | amro | in fact |
| 06:02.21 | amro | that's how I eventually got to understand your point, thanks to cogwheel |
| 06:02.31 | mckenziemc1 | but that's not the only way to do it |
| 06:02.36 | mckenziemc1 | it's one of the worse ways |
| 06:03.06 | amro | not at all, I was showing what I didn't get about the whole thing |
| 06:03.15 | amro | it's two sided |
| 06:03.26 | mckenziemc1 | no you weren't, you were saying i was wrong |
| 06:03.27 | amro | I'm not going to sit alone and try to figure out what you could have meant when I can just ask you |
| 06:03.28 | cogwheel | yes, but you did it repetitively without trying to move the conversation forward |
| 06:03.43 | cogwheel | you just kept making the same point over and over again expecting different results |
| 06:03.50 | amro | cogwheel: I can't move it forward without some sort of response fort |
| 06:04.00 | cogwheel | i was able to... |
| 06:04.14 | cogwheel | are you saying i'm some sort of conversational genius? |
| 06:04.15 | cogwheel | :P |
| 06:04.17 | mckenziemc1 | amro: that's why you have to try something different |
| 06:04.20 | Adys | cogwheel: doesn't help when the other end of the argument isn't willing to participate |
| 06:04.29 | amro | cogwheel: no, i'm saying that even if I could walk the extra mile, the burden isn't on me |
| 06:04.31 | cogwheel | Adys: how can you say that now? |
| 06:04.44 | mckenziemc1 | amro: it's on both sides |
| 06:04.49 | cogwheel | he had a point that was being missed |
| 06:04.50 | mckenziemc1 | you're expecting me to do it all |
| 06:04.51 | amro | mckenziemc1: no, I was repeating it in the hopes you would actually give me something in return |
| 06:04.54 | cogwheel | it's out now, and understood |
| 06:04.56 | amro | not at all |
| 06:05.00 | mckenziemc1 | i was amro |
| 06:05.05 | mckenziemc1 | and you weren't getting it |
| 06:05.05 | cogwheel | and he acknowledged that he was having trouble communicating it |
| 06:05.11 | mckenziemc1 | so i repeated it in different ways |
| 06:05.19 | cogwheel | seems pretty damn willing to participate to me... |
| 06:05.24 | mckenziemc1 | but you still didn't get it and tried the same thing |
| 06:05.44 | mckenziemc1 | i should say |
| 06:06.20 | mckenziemc1 | due to the nature of IMing, i haven't been able to fully keep track of everything (nor would anyone be able to) so i'm probably exploiting the current status more than i should |
| 06:06.36 | mckenziemc1 | if you don't understand what i mean about that then don't worry about it :p |
| 06:07.01 | amro | mckenziemc1: I wasn't trying the same thing, I was actually trying different ways to explain the same thing |
| 06:07.18 | amro | eventually it got through to cogwheel who then got through to me |
| 06:07.19 | cogwheel | your assumption being that he didn't understand you |
| 06:08.00 | cogwheel | it wasn't your point that got through to me... |
| 06:08.02 | amro | cogwheel: yes, but not in that way. for him to correct me, he has to know where i have it wrong exactly |
| 06:08.02 | cogwheel | it was his |
| 06:08.11 | bluspacecow | cog |
| 06:08.18 | amro | you keep thinking of it as if I'm pushing some agenda |
| 06:08.20 | bluspacecow | i feel like im in a rain forest |
| 06:08.22 | cogwheel | no |
| 06:08.29 | bluspacecow | its raining really hard ! |
| 06:08.29 | cogwheel | that's a simple observation of human bises |
| 06:08.31 | cogwheel | biases* |
| 06:08.57 | mckenziemc1 | amro: wait, i have to explain my idea and know where you're not understanding, but if we consider your understanding an "idea", it's ok for you to not have to explain it well, and expect me to figure out the issue? |
| 06:09.01 | mckenziemc1 | that's lopsided |
| 06:09.02 | amro | cogwheel: I'm referring to your quote earlier |
| 06:09.07 | cogwheel | yes |
| 06:09.32 | amro | mckenziemc1: you're taking it too far, I didn't stop trying to explain |
| 06:09.32 | cogwheel | humans are very bad at accepting disconfirming evidence once publicising a view |
| 06:09.36 | cogwheel | it's perfectly natural |
| 06:09.38 | mckenziemc1 | amro: nor did i |
| 06:09.51 | amro | mckenziemc1: actually you took a backseat for a while |
| 06:09.52 | cogwheel | i've just been practicing :P |
| 06:09.56 | amro | but whatever |
| 06:10.01 | *** join/#wowuidev stew-a (~Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 06:10.10 | bluspacecow | 34 min queue :( |
| 06:10.20 | mckenziemc1 | you're expecting me to overcome the unavoidable issues in communication |
| 06:10.33 | cogwheel | bluspacecow: we had a tornado in my town |
| 06:10.36 | amro | I didn't say that either |
| 06:10.43 | mckenziemc1 | you have been |
| 06:11.21 | mckenziemc1 | (10:56:30 PM) amro: I wasn't assuming much, you just did a horrible job of explaining |
| 06:11.21 | mckenziemc1 | ^ biggest example, i would say |
| 06:11.40 | amro | I didn't say you should have done better and fail for not having done so |
| 06:12.33 | mckenziemc1 | i'll admit it's debatable and it's not the best thing for me to be talking about my own argument, but i'd say a large part of the "horrible job" was because of those unavoidable issues |
| 06:12.45 | cogwheel | amro: i think you may have misunderstood that quote... the "who" was referring to you vs. others, rather than who your particular opponent is. I.e. i wasn't accusing you of prejudicing mckenziemc1, but rather prejudicing your own assumptions. |
| 06:12.47 | amro | I don't disagree there |
| 06:12.47 | mckenziemc1 | ok, maybe you didn't mean "horrible" in the sense i took it |
| 06:13.32 | amro | cogwheel: not sure how it seemed that way to you |
| 06:13.35 | mckenziemc1 | but the use of "horrible" in the context suggested you expected a much better job |
| 06:13.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~torhal@24.96.255.115) |
| 06:13.42 | cogwheel | then never mind :) |
| 06:14.20 | amro | cogwheel: I was pushing the point not necessarily because I thought it correct, but to see the response |
| 06:14.29 | cogwheel | read: trolling |
| 06:14.29 | amro | kinda like troubleshooting in a weird way |
| 06:14.32 | cogwheel | ;) |
| 06:14.42 | amro | not to provoke a response |
| 06:14.50 | cogwheel | O.o |
| 06:14.53 | amro | well |
| 06:14.55 | amro | here's what I mean |
| 06:15.09 | amro | I either get a "ah, that's right", or a "no, that's not right" in which case I reformulate and try again |
| 06:15.12 | mckenziemc1 | amro: the better method is to ask questions, or say "i don't understand why you think ____" |
| 06:15.55 | amro | I find that people are more willing to explain when they feel, shall we say, "threatened", on the internet |
| 06:16.06 | amro | when you ask nicely most people just ignore it |
| 06:16.12 | cogwheel | ... |
| 06:16.18 | cogwheel | i still don't see how this doesn't count as trolling |
| 06:16.44 | amro | cogwheel: it's not trolling at all, I'm genuinely trying to understand |
| 06:16.53 | cogwheel | that behavior doesn't advance discussion... it just creates an atmosphere where people are like "wow they're still talking about this?" |
| 06:17.01 | cogwheel | well you're doing it wrong... |
| 06:17.17 | amro | funny, it seemed to eventually work in the end |
| 06:17.36 | amro | it may seem like the discussion isn't advancing, but it is |
| 06:17.46 | cogwheel | only because i was able to see what he was saying |
| 06:17.51 | Adys | cogwheel: right now, you're the only one keeping the conversation alive. amro is just replying to you, and mckenziemc1 is just happy to back you up because you backed him up |
| 06:17.57 | Adys | so uhm :) |
| 06:18.05 | cogwheel | Adys: this is a new conversation :P |
| 06:18.08 | mckenziemc1 | amro: your "quit trolling" and other comments near the beginning doesn't really support |
| 06:18.08 | mckenziemc1 | (11:14:18 PM) amro: cogwheel: I was pushing the point not necessarily because I thought it correct, but to see the response |
| 06:18.08 | amro | cogwheel: which I was trying to do in a sort of elimination process |
| 06:18.18 | mckenziemc1 | Adys: we're talking about a different issue |
| 06:18.19 | amro | it's not trolling |
| 06:18.19 | mckenziemc1 | now |
| 06:18.28 | Adys | I know, I'm still readingh. |
| 06:18.35 | amro | "response" is too vague |
| 06:18.39 | mckenziemc1 | what should be expected in an argument |
| 06:18.39 | Adys | i was replying to "[06:16:45] <cogwheel> that behavior doesn't advance discussion... it just creates an atmosphere where people are like "wow they're still talking about this?"" |
| 06:18.42 | amro | I'm not trying to wind people up |
| 06:18.57 | cogwheel | Adys: so was i? |
| 06:19.02 | amro | and I still thing you misunderstand what i mean cogwheel |
| 06:19.37 | amro | reformulating the same idea is not "doing the same thing again" |
| 06:19.50 | mckenziemc1 | Adys: i'd call that another issue with language, he did not mean that literally and i hope you realize that |
| 06:20.10 | mckenziemc1 | oh, if you're just pointing out the irony then disregard my last comment |
| 06:20.41 | mckenziemc1 | because then i suppose we'd be going back to the original issue.... <mind blown> |
| 06:20.43 | cogwheel | 23:14 < amro> cogwheel: I was pushing the point not necessarily because I thought it correct, but to see the response |
| 06:21.03 | cogwheel | pushing the point... |
| 06:21.07 | cogwheel | reiterating the same concept |
| 06:21.16 | cogwheel | wether reworded or not, you were stuck on one position |
| 06:21.24 | cogwheel | and it didn't allow the conversation to progress |
| 06:21.31 | cogwheel | i'm talking results here... |
| 06:21.33 | amro | ah, i see where the misunderstanding is |
| 06:22.05 | cogwheel | 23:15 < amro> I find that people are more willing to explain when they feel, shall we say, "threatened", on the internet |
| 06:22.22 | cogwheel | implying you were TRYING to create a threatening atmosphere |
| 06:22.27 | amro | no |
| 06:22.36 | cogwheel | O.o |
| 06:22.37 | amro | I was speaking in general there |
| 06:22.38 | Adys | how does that imply anything? |
| 06:22.47 | amro | in reponse to the "it's easier to get responses via ..." |
| 06:22.54 | amro | that was separate altogether, I now realize it wasn't clear |
| 06:23.01 | amro | but it was separate |
| 06:23.10 | amro | anyway |
| 06:23.11 | amro | on the first point |
| 06:23.18 | amro | I knew that he disagreed with it, I just didn't know which specific part. by reiterating it, I was hoping different wording would trigger a response to the root cause of the misunderstanding is |
| 06:23.22 | amro | I was not "stuck" on the idea |
| 06:23.31 | amro | or unwilling to move forward |
| 06:23.35 | amro | or any of that nonsense |
| 06:23.41 | amro | I was trying to understand why we disagreed on that point |
| 06:23.42 | cogwheel | i'm not saying you were unwilling |
| 06:23.55 | cogwheel | just that the tactic you were using wasn't conducive to it |
| 06:23.59 | amro | I just don't see how oyu can move a conversation forward without addressing a disconnect |
| 06:24.04 | amro | what tactic would that be? |
| 06:24.09 | cogwheel | because you weren't addressing it |
| 06:24.20 | amro | because I did know what it was exactly |
| 06:24.21 | cogwheel | you were just trying to point it out over and over again |
| 06:24.23 | amro | hence the rewording |
| 06:24.24 | Fisker | cogwheel |
| 06:24.30 | Fisker | why do you hate me? |
| 06:24.34 | amro | yes, and eventually it sparked this |
| 06:24.37 | cogwheel | rather than trying to figure out how to get him to understand |
| 06:24.38 | amro | gimme a sec to scrollback |
| 06:24.46 | amro | I was trying to get him to get ME to understand |
| 06:24.48 | amro | you see? |
| 06:24.49 | cogwheel | or how to understand where he was coming from |
| 06:25.10 | cogwheel | amro: i have access to all the same information as you... |
| 06:25.11 | Fisker | kd3 |
| 06:25.17 | cogwheel | i'm not in mckenziemc1's head |
| 06:25.24 | amro | cogwheel: no, but we don't think the same |
| 06:25.37 | amro | we read the same lines, but we don't read the same thing between the lines |
| 06:25.41 | amro | so you might come to a certain conclusion faster |
| 06:26.02 | cogwheel | right |
| 06:26.02 | Fisker | why have Blizzard not bothered adding some basic extra report options like with real id friends? |
| 06:26.13 | amro | cogwheel: specifically: |
| 06:26.16 | amro | [06:44] <cogwheel> amro: no, because "base" implies the use of numerals |
| 06:26.44 | amro | if I didn't keep trying to reword the point, would you have made that clarification for me? |
| 06:26.59 | amro | as it turns out, that exactly was the point we were disagreeing on |
| 06:28.10 | cogwheel | hmm... immodesty or honesty... |
| 06:28.17 | cogwheel | i'll go with yeah, you're right :P |
| 06:28.27 | Fisker | cogwheel |
| 06:28.28 | amro | I don't know what you mean |
| 06:28.33 | Fisker | will you stop haaaaaaaaaaaaatin' me? |
| 06:29.00 | amro | and you didn't answer my question |
| 06:29.02 | cogwheel | if i concede your point, i'm being immodest since it means i was better at understanding the nuance :P |
| 06:29.26 | amro | don't flatter yourself, there are a variety of possible reasons why you'd understand it more quickly :P |
| 06:29.35 | cogwheel | i know :P |
| 06:30.06 | amro | my point is I wasn't being stubborn or anything like that, I was genuinely trying to find the misunderstanding |
| 06:30.09 | amro | which I eventually did |
| 06:31.15 | cogwheel | oh by "yeah you're right" i failed to imply the answer to your question was "no" |
| 06:31.58 | cogwheel | i guess i *assumed* it was a rhetorical question :P |
| 06:33.01 | amro | heh, guess it sounded like one |
| 06:33.35 | mckenziemc1 | morning Fisker |
| 06:33.44 | mckenziemc1 | i need some trout |
| 06:34.09 | cogwheel | Fisker: you told me to! |
| 06:34.31 | cogwheel | although you do have a point... |
| 06:34.50 | cogwheel | if jnwhiteh can turn my map into a giant man-groin.... |
| 06:35.14 | bluspacecow | he would |
| 06:35.27 | bluspacecow | anatomically correct one too |
| 06:35.45 | cogwheel | nah it was still a bit ... abstract... |
| 06:36.05 | cogwheel | being a random coincidence and all ;P |
| 06:36.57 | mckenziemc1 | (11:24:19 PM) amro: because I did know what it was exactly |
| 06:36.57 | mckenziemc1 | (11:24:22 PM) amro: hence the rewording |
| 06:36.57 | mckenziemc1 | (11:24:33 PM) amro: yes, and eventually it sparked this |
| 06:36.57 | mckenziemc1 | ^ no, cogwheel's willingness to try to understand and think about the whole argument in a different way sparked it |
| 06:37.31 | amro | mckenziemc1: you're saying that cogwheel sparked his own response? |
| 06:37.32 | cogwheel | swings back the other way |
| 06:37.53 | cogwheel | cogwheel in the sky keeps on turning |
| 06:38.09 | mckenziemc1 | let me repeat that again for you, amro |
| 06:38.10 | amro | and I resent the implication that I wasn't trying to understand |
| 06:38.15 | mckenziemc1 | 11:36:55 PM) mckenziemc1: ^ no, cogwheel's willingness to try to understand and think about the whole argument in a different way sparked it |
| 06:38.40 | amro | 'this' was referring to: [06:44] <cogwheel> amro: no, because "base" implies the use of numerals |
| 06:38.55 | Fisker | cogwheel |
| 06:38.57 | Fisker | it's so cold |
| 06:38.59 | Fisker | hold me |
| 06:39.16 | cogwheel | mckenziemc1: i was able to see the irony on my own and then recognized a key flaw in amro's point |
| 06:39.29 | cogwheel | that i may even have missed in earlier chat |
| 06:39.39 | mckenziemc1 | amro, what timezone are you in |
| 06:39.47 | amro | gmt |
| 06:39.50 | cogwheel | (on my own, but only after trying to look for it because of your insistence :) ) |
| 06:40.12 | mckenziemc1 | i'm not sure if you're claiming prescience (intentional or accidental) or if your response is valid |
| 06:40.51 | mckenziemc1 | so "this" in (11:36:55 PM) mckenziemc1: (11:24:33 PM) amro: yes, and eventually it sparked this |
| 06:41.09 | mckenziemc1 | refers to something before 6:24, right? |
| 06:41.15 | amro | yes |
| 06:41.17 | mckenziemc1 | not something at 6:44 |
| 06:41.33 | mckenziemc1 | perhaps it's still not what i think it is, but it's not that |
| 06:41.35 | amro | or wait let me check those numbers again |
| 06:41.41 | cogwheel | mckenziemc1: yeah it was a while ago |
| 06:41.41 | amro | i was going to paste it on the same line |
| 06:41.46 | cogwheel | and then he pasted it again |
| 06:41.49 | amro | but it was lost in scrollback |
| 06:41.51 | cogwheel | and he might have repasted the repaste |
| 06:41.59 | mckenziemc1 | ah |
| 06:42.13 | cogwheel | it seems that really was the key misunderstanding on amro's part |
| 06:42.41 | mckenziemc1 | wait, i'm confused |
| 06:42.46 | cogwheel | I NO RITE?+? |
| 06:43.06 | mckenziemc1 | if there's only one timestamp, and it's before the name, that should mean the time is the time the following line was originally pasted, right? |
| 06:43.06 | amro | it's like the plot to an edward norton movie |
| 06:43.36 | amro | here's the timestamp for your convenience |
| 06:43.38 | amro | [07:24] <amro> yes, and eventually it sparked this |
| 06:44.03 | cogwheel | my clock says it's only 06:43 in utc... |
| 06:44.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Diao (vince@adsl-76-254-22-76.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 06:44.35 | mckenziemc1 | oh god |
| 06:44.39 | amro | oh duh, gmt+1 |
| 06:44.48 | amro | I hate it because I'm actually west of gmt |
| 06:44.49 | mckenziemc1 | ah |
| 06:44.52 | amro | it should be gmt dammit |
| 06:44.56 | cogwheel | heh |
| 06:45.08 | cogwheel | everywhere should be gmt... how hard is it to remember when solar noon is in your area? |
| 06:45.13 | mckenziemc1 | ok then i think your claim checks out |
| 06:45.24 | cogwheel | haha |
| 06:45.51 | amro | im surprised it was in question at all, but cool |
| 06:45.52 | cogwheel | and everyone was in violent agreement and lived sadomasochistically ever after |
| 06:48.29 | mckenziemc1 | but amro: i can't say whether i think your methods were acceptable or not, without reading the whole chat again |
| 06:49.35 | amro | there was a lot of back and forth |
| 06:49.51 | amro | it was hard to tell what you were saying |
| 06:49.52 | mckenziemc1 | i'm not going to fault your for something i can't even be sure of or that you may not do again in the future (if it even happened in a negative way) but i may read through the scrollback and figure it out later, not for any sense if "who's right" but because it may be useful in future arguments, if i can ask what your "status" is |
| 06:49.55 | amro | for example |
| 06:50.01 | mckenziemc1 | yeah |
| 06:50.26 | amro | [06:29] <mckenziemc> amro: out of context <- in response to me quoting you on "base ten" |
| 06:50.31 | mckenziemc1 | on top of the issues with communication, we have issues added by IM itself |
| 06:50.33 | amro | as it turns out, it wasn't- it was still understandable |
| 06:50.40 | amro | so I was tring to imagine this context |
| 06:50.45 | cogwheel | yeah i think it's like signs |
| 06:50.56 | cogwheel | if you go through it a second time you'll be like "OOOOOHHHHHH" |
| 06:50.57 | amro | and assuming there was additional information you were withholding |
| 06:51.05 | mckenziemc1 | well |
| 06:51.13 | amro | when all I had was already there in front of me |
| 06:51.35 | mckenziemc1 | actually i think it was a different context, but with an unusual nuance |
| 06:51.44 | mckenziemc1 | and i don't even remember now |
| 06:51.55 | amro | point is, your response that it was out of context threw me off |
| 06:51.59 | bluspacecow | can you comment stuff out in a macro ? |
| 06:52.04 | cogwheel | bluspacecow: # |
| 06:52.21 | bluspacecow | ty cog |
| 06:52.33 | amro | and I don't really know what you mean by my "methods" |
| 06:52.55 | cogwheel | of conversation |
| 06:53.00 | mckenziemc1 | amro: in this case i think the issue was very subtle, i can see how it would be misused |
| 06:53.02 | cogwheel | that we were talking about earlier |
| 06:53.14 | cogwheel | that i eventually conceded ;P |
| 06:53.18 | amro | cogwheel: yes, I still don't know what exactly and don't want to assume |
| 06:53.22 | mckenziemc1 | yeah, i can't be any more specific about it than "methods of communication" at this point, without reading scrollback |
| 06:53.51 | amro | you said "acceptable", on what level though? was I uncivil? inaccurate? incoherent? |
| 06:53.55 | amro | etc |
| 06:54.31 | cogwheel | stop pushing imo <.< |
| 06:55.06 | amro | I.. err.. |
| 06:55.09 | amro | nevermind |
| 06:55.18 | cogwheel | he seems to be trying to drop it :P |
| 06:55.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (~Srosh@d019098.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 06:55.34 | cogwheel | i just ordered this http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003K51IPI |
| 06:59.50 | bluspacecow | is heroic grim batol really hard ? |
| 07:00.05 | bluspacecow | cause the group wiped the 20th and had our 5th tank leave |
| 07:00.10 | Arrowmaster | 7.2? wtf |
| 07:00.29 | amro | bluspacecow: it can be for certain compos |
| 07:00.33 | amro | which boss? |
| 07:00.41 | bluspacecow | 2nd |
| 07:00.51 | bluspacecow | the one with the shield that spews fire |
| 07:01.02 | amro | yeah just need to be reactive there |
| 07:01.06 | cogwheel | Arrowmaster: 2 subwoofers (not that i'll be using that feature) |
| 07:01.14 | Adys | i'd say its probably a healer issue |
| 07:01.19 | Adys | and/or gear issue |
| 07:01.28 | Arrowmaster | why does it have two subwoofers |
| 07:01.29 | amro | more likely a standing in the fire issue |
| 07:01.39 | Arrowmaster | other than so they can put 7.2 on the name |
| 07:01.45 | amro | a barely geared healer can make it if people avoid damage |
| 07:01.48 | Arrowmaster | even though its not 7.2 |
| 07:02.08 | mckenziemc1 | oh, now that we've clarified the issue was nuance, a correction: |
| 07:02.11 | mckenziemc1 | ~cide-- |
| 07:02.11 | Fisker | cogwheel |
| 07:02.14 | Fisker | i just ordered you |
| 07:03.35 | Fisker | http://usa.denon.com/us/Product/Pages/Product-Detail.aspx?Catid=5840d55c-4077-4d9e-9421-36f204fb4587&SubId=85958de8-a123-4213-8ae1-bb6afaee9a97&ProductId=f7d26b3a-05a6-4724-a5c1-2a63642a6206# <-remember the proper equipment cogwheel |
| 07:03.55 | bluspacecow | is it a strap on ? |
| 07:04.06 | Fisker | no |
| 07:04.54 | Fisker | cogwheel bluspacecow is dissing your penis |
| 07:05.31 | Fisker | anyway bluspacecow |
| 07:05.34 | Fisker | what took them so long? |
| 07:05.39 | bluspacecow | for ? |
| 07:05.57 | Fisker | a report player button for trivial shit like names, anal jokes, etc. |
| 07:07.54 | cogwheel | Arrowmaster: maybe 2 mid-sized subwoofers can give similar performance as larger ones for a better price? |
| 07:07.58 | cogwheel | (no idea) |
| 07:08.26 | Fisker | damnit cogwheel :( |
| 07:08.38 | Fisker | bluspacecow is hating on your penis |
| 07:08.46 | bluspacecow | noes |
| 07:08.57 | Fisker | are you just gonna take it like that? |
| 07:08.59 | bluspacecow | i just thought it would be a gift fisker would get cog |
| 07:10.05 | Fisker | hah your excuses |
| 07:11.02 | Fisker | i reported someone yesterday bluspacecow |
| 07:11.20 | bluspacecow | was it exciting for you ? |
| 07:12.30 | bluspacecow | 4.1 PTR build patches appear to be getting smaller. |
| 07:12.34 | bluspacecow | last one was 41MB |
| 07:13.53 | Fisker | it was exciting bluspacecow |
| 07:14.43 | Fisker | slaps bluspacecow around a bit with a large trout |
| 07:16.06 | Fisker | hey bluspacecow |
| 07:16.10 | Fisker | do you think you can stop me? |
| 07:16.15 | bluspacecow | nope |
| 07:16.18 | bluspacecow | your too awesome |
| 07:18.05 | Fisker | lol |
| 07:18.13 | Fisker | why is the options button on the PTR greyed out? |
| 07:18.28 | Fisker | what if i want to set another resolution? :( |
| 07:19.20 | Fisker | jerkoffs! |
| 07:19.24 | Fisker | also greyed out ingame |
| 07:19.30 | Fisker | why are they doing this to me bluspacecow ? |
| 07:19.37 | bluspacecow | its cause |
| 07:19.40 | bluspacecow | they know |
| 07:19.44 | bluspacecow | how cog hates you |
| 07:19.48 | bluspacecow | and commiserate. |
| 07:19.52 | Fisker | :( |
| 07:20.06 | Shirik | they hate me too |
| 07:20.07 | Shirik | it's ok |
| 07:21.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (~na@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 07:22.37 | Fisker | bluspacecow |
| 07:22.38 | Fisker | yeeeeeeeees |
| 07:22.59 | bluspacecow | *hands cigarette to fisker* |
| 07:23.37 | Fisker | why would you do such a thing? |
| 07:24.23 | bluspacecow | congratulations! |
| 07:25.44 | Shirik | :( |
| 07:27.29 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 07:27.31 | Fisker | why so sad Shirik ? |
| 07:28.20 | Fisker | kd3 my friend |
| 07:28.26 | Fisker | why are in-game options greyed out? |
| 07:30.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (~na@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 07:30.59 | Fisker | yes |
| 07:31.02 | Fisker | yyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssss |
| 07:33.16 | zenzelezz | Cairenn: http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/64bfddcd-823f-49d3-ba2f-162d8d5098f5.jpg |
| 07:34.27 | *** join/#wowuidev kandarz (~kandarz@c-67-183-240-167.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 07:34.44 | mckenziemc1 | Fisker |
| 07:34.46 | mckenziemc1 | i'm sick :( |
| 07:34.56 | mckenziemc1 | you contaged your sickness to me |
| 07:35.10 | Fisker | previously on fringe |
| 07:36.32 | Cairenn | zenzelezz: hehehe |
| 07:37.24 | Fisker | the new GM interface is pretty neat |
| 07:37.51 | mckenziemc1 | GM? |
| 07:37.55 | mckenziemc1 | do you mean guild? |
| 07:37.58 | mckenziemc1 | or tickets |
| 07:38.56 | mckenziemc1 | (i'm confused since i'm not aware of any change to game master stuff, and the guild stuff applies to the whole guild, not just teh guild master (i assume) |
| 07:39.08 | mckenziemc1 | actually, maybe you're not even talking about wow :< |
| 07:39.21 | mckenziemc1 | grrr unmatched ( |
| 07:40.05 | Fisker | gamemaster obviously :o |
| 07:41.13 | mckenziemc1 | Fisker: link? |
| 07:41.31 | Fisker | no |
| 07:41.57 | mckenziemc1 | targets Fisker and begins casting Mind Control |
| 07:42.15 | mckenziemc1 | stops and casts Mind Vision instead |
| 07:45.32 | cogwheel | buys mckenziemc1 a coupon for a psychiatrist |
| 07:45.46 | cogwheel | you can't unsee what fisker sees |
| 07:46.09 | Fisker | hey cogwheel |
| 07:46.36 | Fisker | cogwheel |
| 07:46.44 | cogwheel | meow? |
| 07:46.51 | Fisker | how do i stop amazon from "recommending" me shit because i bought something from them? |
| 07:46.52 | cogwheel | meow meow meow meow |
| 07:47.05 | cogwheel | stop visiting them |
| 07:47.15 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (stolenlega@chello213047049072.5.graz.surfer.at) |
| 07:47.29 | cogwheel | works every time |
| 07:47.37 | Fisker | :O |
| 07:48.09 | Fisker | their customer tracking is outrageous |
| 07:48.13 | Fisker | btw cogwheel |
| 07:48.17 | Fisker | getting that ethernet cable? |
| 07:48.39 | cogwheel | which "that"? |
| 07:49.29 | Fisker | i linked it earlier |
| 07:49.38 | Fisker | http://usa.denon.com/us/Product/Pages/Product-Detail.aspx?Catid=5840d55c-4077-4d9e-9421-36f204fb4587&SubId=85958de8-a123-4213-8ae1-bb6afaee9a97&ProductId=f7d26b3a-05a6-4724-a5c1-2a63642a6206# |
| 07:50.11 | Shirik | the marolfocopter is here! |
| 07:50.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Yoshimo (~Miranda@p5499984C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:50.28 | cogwheel | i'd say that's the dumbest thing ever were it not for kilodollar HDMI cables |
| 07:50.39 | Shirik | what |
| 07:50.45 | Shirik | how can you pay that much for a cable |
| 07:51.15 | Fisker | it's hard Shirik |
| 07:51.17 | Fisker | but it's doable |
| 07:51.21 | Fisker | let me teach you how |
| 07:51.22 | Shirik | no it's not |
| 07:51.25 | Fisker | give me $500 |
| 07:51.25 | Shirik | also |
| 07:51.27 | Fisker | give me $500 |
| 07:51.36 | Shirik | I think I'm going to buy $500 worth of Canon |
| 07:51.42 | Fisker | no |
| 07:51.46 | Fisker | you're going to give me $500 |
| 07:51.51 | Fisker | and i will give you an ethernet cable |
| 07:51.58 | zenzelezz | how many shares is that? |
| 07:51.59 | Shirik | no ty |
| 07:52.05 | Shirik | a little over 10, zenzelezz |
| 07:52.08 | Fisker | yes ty |
| 07:52.35 | Fisker | why would you get canon stocks Shirik ? |
| 07:52.44 | Shirik | because they're cheap right now |
| 07:53.11 | Fisker | so are my $500 ethernet cables |
| 07:53.24 | Shirik | no |
| 07:53.31 | Shirik | Oh reginald |
| 07:53.32 | Shirik | I disagree |
| 07:56.15 | Shirik | did I authorize you to stop talking Fisker? |
| 07:56.58 | Fisker | yes |
| 07:57.08 | Fisker | i have a signed request form right here |
| 07:57.49 | Shirik | Online Banking is currently unavailable in your area due to scheduled system maintenance. Online Banking will become available beginning at 4:00 A.M. Eastern Time on Saturday. |
| 07:57.54 | Shirik | fffffuuuuuu |
| 07:58.04 | Fisker | i hope you have bills that you can't pay because of it |
| 07:58.18 | Shirik | I do have a bill but it doesn't matter if I pay it now or not |
| 07:58.25 | Shirik | I can also pay it through quicken but I don't trust quicken |
| 07:58.59 | amro | Shirik: they're just trying to mirror the brick and mortar experience as closely as possible with closing times |
| 07:59.11 | Shirik | oh that's nice of them |
| 07:59.27 | Shirik | if they really want to do that they really should try to make it only be open 2 hours a day then |
| 08:01.29 | amro | and dickish managers |
| 08:03.42 | Fisker | hey Shirik |
| 08:03.51 | Shirik | hey Fisker |
| 08:04.07 | mckenziemc1 | hey Fisker |
| 08:04.09 | mckenziemc1 | hey Shirik |
| 08:05.06 | Fisker | hey mckenziemc1 |
| 08:11.45 | mikma | haste: http://pics.kuvaton.com/bshit/failcatsweshalldecide.jpg |
| 08:14.50 | Fisker | hey mikma |
| 08:15.17 | mikma | yikes |
| 08:25.31 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (harl@dslb-084-063-127-229.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 08:25.58 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 08:40.26 | Fisker | hey kd3 |
| 08:45.12 | mckenziemc1 | oh cogwheel |
| 08:45.43 | mckenziemc1 | i happened to skip that Dunnig-Kruger page you linked earlier, but that's a good one :p |
| 08:51.02 | mckenziemc1 | Arrowmaster: was that 2012? |
| 08:51.10 | Arrowmaster | ? |
| 08:51.17 | mckenziemc1 | sec, let me find it again |
| 08:51.39 | mckenziemc1 | ââ |
| 08:51.49 | Arrowmaster | no its 9000 |
| 08:51.52 | mckenziemc1 | ah |
| 08:52.21 | mckenziemc1 | what language is it |
| 08:52.33 | Arrowmaster | roman numerals |
| 08:53.37 | Fisker | omg mckenziemc1 |
| 08:53.39 | Fisker | omg Arrowmaster |
| 08:53.40 | Fisker | omg |
| 08:53.47 | mckenziemc1 | did you come |
| 08:53.55 | Fisker | sure |
| 08:53.59 | mckenziemc1 | don't forget to clean it up before it dries |
| 08:57.05 | Fisker | that's ok, your mom said she would take care of that |
| 08:57.14 | mckenziemc1 | : = |
| 08:57.18 | mckenziemc1 | : / * |
