| 00:00.10 | Adys | [23:59:18] <+Cide> two people I know use django, do some really complex shit and runs into its limitations, and starts hacking the shit out of it with custom patches instead of working around it, and then abandons it citing that it sucsk |
| 00:00.12 | Adys | make that four |
| 00:00.16 | Adys | actually five |
| 00:00.22 | airtonix | umadbro? |
| 00:00.39 | Cide | it's just a strange reason to dislike it |
| 00:00.50 | Cide | it's awesome at what it does, which is a shitton |
| 00:00.56 | Adys | just because django is a framework doesnt mean it should force the users into limitations |
| 00:01.08 | Cide | you're misinterpreting limitations |
| 00:01.12 | airtonix | yeah it's a shame it can't coffee |
| 00:01.16 | airtonix | oh wait it can |
| 00:01.17 | Cide | it allows you to do whatever you want |
| 00:01.28 | Adys | it really doesn't |
| 00:01.33 | Cide | it's just that you can't bend *their* code into doing what you want always |
| 00:01.36 | airtonix | prove it |
| 00:01.53 | Adys | its a lot more than that, Cide |
| 00:01.59 | Cide | you had some stupid requirement that it enforced foreign keys or some shit? |
| 00:02.05 | Cide | give me one good reason to hate django |
| 00:02.18 | amro | he's a far better guitarist than you will ever be |
| 00:02.20 | Cide | give me one good limitation which isn't stupid |
| 00:02.27 | Cide | amro: funny once, not twice :P |
| 00:02.36 | amro | it wasn't even funny once |
| 00:02.43 | Cide | true enough |
| 00:02.48 | airtonix | it's a great movie too |
| 00:03.19 | Adys | if you want to hate django, build a great app based on it, truly believing what you're currently saying (that django lets you do whatever you want) |
| 00:03.35 | Cide | ....... |
| 00:03.42 | Cide | give me a limitation that is sensible |
| 00:03.53 | airtonix | looks at Fisker |
| 00:03.54 | Adys | be slowly built up over weeks, over months, hitting up quirks here and there |
| 00:03.57 | Adys | inconsistencies |
| 00:03.59 | Adys | irrationalities |
| 00:04.06 | airtonix | like? |
| 00:04.09 | Cide | "oh its default implementation of the postgresql engine does not support hacking the shit out of foreign keys" |
| 00:04.13 | Cide | BUILD YOUR OWN ENGINE |
| 00:04.35 | airtonix | i think he just mad at spaced indenting |
| 00:04.58 | Adys | then one day, be hit by a seriously large steaming pile of shit caused by their superarrogant "code rules" |
| 00:05.03 | Cide | like? |
| 00:05.18 | Adys | start to cry as you look at the dozens of python files in your app, possibly hundreds, depending on django |
| 00:05.22 | cbreak | like python's white space is functional rule? |
| 00:05.31 | Adys | and just *know* that you won't be able to fix it, not in your lifetime. |
| 00:05.35 | Cide | I'm starting to think Adys got bit by one of the devs because his patch wasn't good enough |
| 00:05.41 | airtonix | cbreak: spaces compared to tabs |
| 00:05.48 | Adys | it has nothing to do with that |
| 00:05.55 | Cide | you realize the "code rules" are simply stylistic rules? |
| 00:06.01 | Cide | for consistent coding |
| 00:06.06 | Adys | i had a dozen patches for django, i stopped sending them because they didn't care |
| 00:06.12 | Adys | but thats way outside the point |
| 00:06.21 | Cide | you haven't given a reason |
| 00:06.24 | Adys | comes a moment in time where everything you do requires you to hack up django |
| 00:06.25 | Cide | you've just painted up this scenario |
| 00:06.44 | Adys | ive told you how to hate django |
| 00:06.44 | Cide | but never given specifics |
| 00:06.50 | Adys | why bother? |
| 00:06.51 | airtonix | lawl |
| 00:06.52 | Cide | I told you to give me one example |
| 00:07.12 | Adys | i gave you examples before, you even cited me some, whatever i say right now you're going to shrug it off |
| 00:07.18 | Cide | nah |
| 00:07.24 | Cide | but I don't see how you can run into limitations |
| 00:07.28 | Adys | i gave you a howto; follow it, see you in a year when you hate django |
| 00:07.48 | Cide | if you use something like the form framework |
| 00:07.48 | airtonix | but it'll be too late by then |
| 00:07.58 | Cide | you'll run into limitations since it's designed a specific way |
| 00:08.03 | Cide | but there's nothing in django that requires you to use it |
| 00:08.11 | Cide | if it doesn't fit your needs, roll your own |
| 00:08.24 | Cide | if nothing fits your needs, you just chose the wrong framework |
| 00:08.44 | Cide | but chances are what you're developing isn't really a web application then, but a custom application that happened to have an SQL database and a web interface |
| 00:08.55 | Cide | *cough* db.mmo-champion.com *cough* |
| 00:08.56 | Adys | no. |
| 00:09.03 | Adys | yeah what about it? |
| 00:09.13 | Adys | how is that *not* what django is meant to deal with? |
| 00:09.19 | Kraps | supreme jumbo salted peanuts |
| 00:09.23 | Cide | that's what python is meant to deal with |
| 00:09.27 | Cide | django should handle the display |
| 00:09.32 | Adys | thats what it does. |
| 00:09.33 | Cide | everything else can be done in pure python |
| 00:09.40 | Cide | and that's the project you ran into difficulties with? |
| 00:09.48 | Cide | the front end of db.mmo-c is trivial to code in django |
| 00:10.04 | Cide | but I remember you tried to hack django into doing the DBC relationships for you |
| 00:10.04 | Adys | the difficulties i ran into are at the sql level |
| 00:10.13 | Adys | there are no dbcs on db.mmoc |
| 00:10.19 | Adys | at least, were |
| 00:10.29 | Cide | you know what I'm talking about |
| 00:10.30 | amro | grabs another bowl of popcorn |
| 00:10.38 | Adys | no, i don't |
| 00:10.42 | amro | I do |
| 00:10.42 | Adys | and you don't either |
| 00:10.49 | airtonix | i do |
| 00:10.54 | Cide | when you tried to use django models to model your dbc table relationships |
| 00:11.03 | Adys | you realize dbcs are sql dumps right? |
| 00:11.10 | Cide | what's your point? |
| 00:11.11 | Adys | in binary format |
| 00:11.22 | Adys | my point is there's no difficulty mirroring dbcs as sql databases |
| 00:11.27 | Cide | you had that requirement with foreign keys crap |
| 00:11.31 | Cide | I didn't say that |
| 00:11.44 | Cide | regardless |
| 00:11.47 | Adys | i ran into a lot of limitations with the django sql engine |
| 00:11.48 | Adys | sure |
| 00:11.50 | Adys | roll my own |
| 00:11.53 | Adys | thats what i did |
| 00:11.54 | Adys | as i said |
| 00:12.01 | Adys | comes a point in time, you don't deal with django at all anymore |
| 00:12.05 | Adys | you roll your own shit everywhere |
| 00:12.13 | Cide | if what you're doing is extremely complex in all directions, sure |
| 00:12.20 | Adys | and django becomes this thing creeping up in all of your code that's become completely useless |
| 00:12.24 | Cide | lawl |
| 00:12.26 | Adys | its not complex |
| 00:12.27 | Cide | I don't believe you for a second |
| 00:12.32 | amro | Adys: that wouldn't be unique to django |
| 00:12.32 | Cide | complex sql queries, sure. |
| 00:12.34 | Adys | its foreign key handling |
| 00:12.39 | amro | you'd hit the same issue with any framework |
| 00:12.39 | Cide | what's the problem with it? |
| 00:12.49 | Cide | what's the problem with django's foreign key handling? |
| 00:13.30 | Adys | dude, im not even getting into that, you wanna read 1500 lines of code dealing with that crap go ahead, i dont feel like explaining 6 months worth of django hacks in 2 mins |
| 00:13.33 | Cide | and also, for the complex queries you can use .raw() or .extra() |
| 00:13.37 | Adys | amro: sure, but the way i hit the issue with django is very different |
| 00:13.51 | Cide | Adys: just give me the number one issue with django's fkeys then |
| 00:14.01 | amro | as opposed to which other framework? |
| 00:14.21 | Adys | amro: with a well-built framework (cf: qt), you hit a limitation, you keep using the framework and drop at a lower level in the places you need very complex operations |
| 00:14.31 | Cide | same is doable with django |
| 00:14.36 | Cide | grab sqlalchemy |
| 00:14.40 | Cide | or use .raw() |
| 00:14.42 | Cide | or use .extra() |
| 00:14.43 | Adys | with django, whatever i did which required me to drop at a lower level also required me to get rid of django completely in the related places |
| 00:15.03 | amro | you can't use qt as an example |
| 00:15.09 | amro | we're talking about web application frameworks |
| 00:15.14 | Adys | qt is an application framework |
| 00:15.16 | amro | the landscape is completely different |
| 00:15.20 | amro | web application framework |
| 00:15.25 | Cide | hey Adys |
| 00:15.29 | Adys | django isn't just for web apps |
| 00:15.34 | Cide | yes it is |
| 00:15.37 | Adys | no. |
| 00:15.51 | Cide | can you drop in a custom window renderer for qt |
| 00:15.52 | Adys | ive built apps using django that had no web interface at all |
| 00:16.05 | Cide | what you have succeeded with is very different from the goal and purpose |
| 00:16.09 | amro | doesn't mean you're supposed to |
| 00:16.24 | Adys | the django manual says itself it can be used for other things than web apps |
| 00:16.35 | Adys | its a great interface to a simple app that has a sql backend |
| 00:16.39 | Cide | I bet I can hack qt into a web framework by use of polling screenshots and using an image map |
| 00:16.49 | Cide | doesn't mean it makes sense |
| 00:16.59 | Cide | though that'd be awesome |
| 00:17.02 | Primer | yeah, it's like using java to serve up web content |
| 00:17.03 | Adys | qt isn't just a gui app framework either, QtGui is |
| 00:17.04 | kd3|netbook | winces |
| 00:17.10 | Primer | makes NO sense! |
| 00:17.12 | Cide | anyway |
| 00:17.19 | Cide | can you drop in a custom window renderer for qt? |
| 00:17.20 | Primer | adds fuel to the fire |
| 00:17.26 | mitchnull | primer: :P |
| 00:17.27 | amro | Adys: Qt is a horrible comparison for django |
| 00:17.28 | Adys | prolly yeah, i havent tried it |
| 00:17.36 | Cide | conjecture is not proof |
| 00:17.39 | amro | you can't |
| 00:17.46 | amro | not dynamically |
| 00:17.53 | amro | you'd have to roll your own qt |
| 00:18.03 | Cide | would you have to cut out related pieces of qt dependent on said window renderer? |
| 00:18.23 | Cide | or are there miraculously none |
| 00:18.25 | Dagmar | "roll your own qt" lol |
| 00:18.26 | Adys | why the fuck are you talking about qtgui anyway? |
| 00:18.33 | Cide | it's part of qt no? |
| 00:18.45 | Adys | im specifically not talking about qtgui when comparing django to it |
| 00:18.54 | Adys | django and qt have a lot of similar interfaces |
| 00:18.57 | Cide | just like you're only talking about django's model layer |
| 00:19.01 | amro | no they don't |
| 00:19.06 | amro | qt and django are nothing aliek |
| 00:19.16 | Cide | anyway |
| 00:19.20 | Cide | feel free to hate django all you want |
| 00:19.28 | Cide | it just seems strange to me to hate a framework for running into limitations |
| 00:19.58 | Cide | whatever you use you'll always run into limitations if you go far enough complexity wise or far enough perpendicularly to the purpose of the framework |
| 00:20.20 | mckenziemc | how viable is leveling as a prot paladin nowadays? i'm considering going prot / holy but i want to be able to quest when i'm not on DSL |
| 00:20.21 | Adys | the framework forced me to write code a way extremely tied to itself, and then have to rewrite all that code so that i could use it in something else than django |
| 00:20.27 | Cide | naturally |
| 00:20.29 | Adys | this is my issue with it |
| 00:20.32 | Adys | and no |
| 00:20.35 | Adys | there are no ways around it |
| 00:20.39 | Cide | so hm |
| 00:20.40 | Adys | this isn't a design issue, its a framework issue |
| 00:20.42 | Dagmar | mckenziemc: Dual spec is like, a nickel now |
| 00:20.50 | mckenziemc | Dagmar: reread |
| 00:21.03 | amro | mckenziemc: it's very viable |
| 00:21.06 | Cide | I want to see you use pylons code in web2py |
| 00:21.08 | Cide | go |
| 00:21.17 | Adys | why the f would i use web2py? |
| 00:21.22 | amro | mckenziemc: my pally is currently 77, been prot all the way |
| 00:21.27 | Cide | give me two different frameworks where you can reuse code between them |
| 00:21.31 | mckenziemc | thanks |
| 00:21.49 | amro | mckenziemc: at lower levels you will even do far more aoe dps |
| 00:22.12 | Adys | Cide: with most frameworks, you can write code reusable at very little expense. with django, you *have* to write huge chunks completely tied to django |
| 00:22.21 | Cide | that's *ALWAYS* the case |
| 00:22.24 | Adys | no, its not |
| 00:22.26 | Cide | yes |
| 00:22.28 | Cide | interfaces differ |
| 00:22.31 | Cide | template languages differ |
| 00:22.38 | Adys | im not talking about templates |
| 00:22.46 | Cide | every single code interface differs |
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| 00:22.57 | Adys | interfaces may differ but that doesn't mean most of your code has to change |
| 00:23.02 | Cide | yes... |
| 00:23.09 | Cide | if you want to actually use the framework |
| 00:23.16 | Cide | you'll write framework-specific code |
| 00:23.19 | amro | Adys: I'm not sure what you want them to do differently |
| 00:23.25 | Cide | if you want to write framework-agnostic code you're just doing everything yourself |
| 00:23.45 | Cide | example: if you don't want to tie your forms to django, write your own forms in html |
| 00:23.58 | Cide | there's no way you can use django's forms while staying framework-agnostic |
| 00:24.02 | Cide | the same is true for all features |
| 00:24.12 | mckenziemc | sorry dagmar, the punctuation may have been ambigous: to clarify, i want to use prot for one spec and holy as the other, so that i can use either in instances when i -am- on dialup, but that means i couldn't have a ret spec |
| 00:24.18 | Cide | if you want to minimize the amount of code you have to change if you switch frameworks, you're not really using the framework or its features |
| 00:24.25 | mckenziemc | when i -am- on DSL* |
| 00:24.34 | Adys | when i started rewriting large parts of sigrie into its own python module (pywow), i couldn't use squat from django, i had to call external tools and generate django-specific files and what not |
| 00:25.04 | amro | makes sense |
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| 00:25.21 | Cide | I'm not familiar enough with it to comment, but django is pretty web oriented |
| 00:25.25 | Adys | at some point i decided to check out werkzeug, in a few hours i had a running clone site with the interface perfectly tied, no rewriting necessary as long as i used my module |
| 00:25.45 | Cide | I don't know werkzeug at all |
| 00:25.48 | Adys | then i saw that werkzeug was not what i needed to i checked out tornado. in half an hour i had all my code ported |
| 00:25.48 | Cide | but let me check |
| 00:26.04 | Cide | but then you didn't *use* any of werkzeug's features |
| 00:26.06 | amro | werkzeug isn't like django |
| 00:26.31 | amro | your problem is that you should have never used django |
| 00:26.37 | Adys | no. |
| 00:26.42 | Cide | yes |
| 00:26.44 | Adys | django is fine for 95% of sigrie |
| 00:26.55 | Cide | and why can't you use it for that, and leave the rest out of it? |
| 00:27.05 | Adys | the last 5% should be doable outside of django and the rest left alone |
| 00:27.08 | Cide | your django code can call pywow.get_items() |
| 00:27.14 | Adys | dependencies prevented me from doing thatr |
| 00:27.21 | Cide | what dependencies? |
| 00:27.35 | Cide | you don't even need to use the model layer in django |
| 00:27.45 | Cide | forms are model-agnostic |
| 00:27.50 | Cide | views are model-agnostic |
| 00:27.53 | Cide | urls are model-agnostic |
| 00:27.55 | Adys | who gives a squat about forms. |
| 00:27.57 | Cide | I do. |
| 00:28.13 | amro | the rest is also model-agnostic Adys |
| 00:28.19 | Cide | surprise! :P |
| 00:28.23 | amro | don't attack a small part that doens't even make the argument |
| 00:28.38 | Cide | some contribs are pretty heavily based around django's models (admin) |
| 00:28.55 | Cide | naturally that would be even cooler if it wasn't but I'm not too concerned myself |
| 00:29.03 | Adys | here's what you don't understand |
| 00:29.14 | Adys | if you stop using the model layer in one place |
| 00:29.17 | Adys | you have to drop it everywhere |
| 00:29.22 | Adys | now why the hell do i want that? I don't |
| 00:29.27 | *** part/#wowuidev mitchnull (~opera@catv3EC944A1.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 00:29.29 | Cide | why would you want to *not* do that |
| 00:29.31 | amro | you're not making sense |
| 00:29.35 | amro | why would you only use it in some places? |
| 00:29.46 | amro | Item is either a django model or it isn't |
| 00:29.53 | Adys | because in "that one place" i need a feature the model layer not only doesn't offer, but also doesn't let me implement |
| 00:30.12 | Adys | such as a specific field in a specific model in a specific table in a specific part of my app |
| 00:30.25 | Cide | you realize django only creates your tables if you ask it to |
| 00:30.31 | amro | so you just use your custom models everywhere |
| 00:30.35 | amro | what's wrong with that? |
| 00:30.39 | amro | you ended up doing it with werkzeug |
| 00:30.44 | Adys | what's wrong with that? |
| 00:30.55 | Cide | which just seems to be a light wsgi wrapper |
| 00:30.56 | Adys | i had like 120 models, you want me to rewrite all of them? |
| 00:31.00 | amro | didn't you? |
| 00:31.17 | amro | heck |
| 00:31.26 | Adys | just because in ONE model i have to use something else because a specific field has a use-case not handled by the django model layer? |
| 00:31.26 | Cide | anyway |
| 00:31.27 | amro | I told you the very first time you were running into that fkey bullshit |
| 00:31.34 | amro | once you start hacking you never sto |
| 00:31.42 | Cide | you can write your own field |
| 00:31.46 | Cide | or you can write custom sql |
| 00:31.46 | Adys | BS |
| 00:31.52 | Adys | double BS |
| 00:31.59 | Cide | how is that bs |
| 00:32.03 | Adys | in two years you think i didnt try that? |
| 00:32.05 | Adys | you run into other issues |
| 00:32.09 | Cide | like what |
| 00:32.10 | amro | double bs sounds like something from mcdonald's |
| 00:32.18 | Cide | write a custom manager method |
| 00:32.19 | Adys | and no, im too tired to recount them all right now |
| 00:32.27 | Cide | anyway |
| 00:32.35 | Cide | if werkzeug is so much better |
| 00:32.40 | Cide | when it's only a light wsgi wrapper |
| 00:32.48 | Cide | why don't you use django like a light wsgi wrapper, which it *also* does |
| 00:32.52 | Cide | and just forget about the other features |
| 00:33.00 | Adys | yeah, you can eventually get it working, by wrapping the wrapper that wraps the wrapping layer that layers the core cloning the feature. |
| 00:33.03 | Cide | django is a strict superset of werkzeug as far as I can tell |
| 00:33.15 | Cide | what you did was that you used too much of its features for things that it isn't supposed to do |
| 00:33.25 | Adys | werkzeug wasnt what i needed as i said |
| 00:33.34 | Adys | but i found out in a matter of hours, not a matter of months |
| 00:33.34 | amro | what is? |
| 00:33.39 | Adys | tornado was fantastic |
| 00:33.45 | Adys | and it offers 90% of django's features |
| 00:33.45 | Cide | but tornado is just a webserver it seems? |
| 00:33.55 | Adys | no, tornado has a lot of builtin modules |
| 00:33.56 | Cide | maybe not |
| 00:34.01 | Adys | including template language, model layer etc |
| 00:34.14 | Cide | cool |
| 00:34.16 | Adys | you're not forced to use them; like in django, i know; but you can still interoperate them |
| 00:34.27 | Adys | in any case im not here to advertise friendfeed |
| 00:34.34 | Cide | so you ended up using those features? |
| 00:34.50 | Cide | can you now convert those features to pylons, I ask? |
| 00:34.55 | Cide | retaining code |
| 00:35.02 | amro | I'm not a fan of django but your argument doesn't make sense Adys |
| 00:35.09 | Adys | no, i ended up saying "fuck it all" and stopped working on the web interface, happily worked on my own library and did all my shit on the command line |
| 00:35.20 | Cide | as it should have been :P |
| 00:35.27 | Adys | what should have been? |
| 00:35.32 | Cide | it seems to me like a web framework should only be used for the frontend |
| 00:35.41 | Cide | your needs are too specific for a general purpose web framework |
| 00:35.53 | Cide | pywow being entirely usable from command line seems like the proper way to do it |
| 00:36.07 | Adys | even now you cant tie pywow to django |
| 00:36.13 | Cide | I bet I can |
| 00:36.19 | amro | I thought you didn't WANT to tie your shit down to django |
| 00:36.29 | Cide | I think he meant it as in "use pywow with django" |
| 00:36.35 | Adys | tie as in "implement sigrie using pywow+django" |
| 00:36.39 | amro | you certainly can |
| 00:36.45 | amro | django doesn't stop you |
| 00:36.48 | amro | pywow might |
| 00:36.51 | Adys | of course you can, since i wrote my own models within pywow |
| 00:36.55 | Adys | but you know what that means right? |
| 00:37.10 | Cide | but you don't know that tornado would have let you write them with its framework |
| 00:37.10 | Adys | if you want to implement comments for example, you CANNOT use django's model layer |
| 00:37.13 | amro | that means that you can skip the model layer and not have to deal with it |
| 00:37.13 | Adys | COMMENTS |
| 00:37.18 | Cide | comments as in? |
| 00:37.23 | Adys | blog comments |
| 00:37.24 | Adys | anything |
| 00:37.31 | Adys | you cant use the model layer AT ALL |
| 00:37.32 | Cide | it even has a comments contrib module |
| 00:37.34 | amro | yes you can |
| 00:37.36 | Adys | cant use it. |
| 00:37.38 | amro | yes |
| 00:37.44 | Adys | ok, keep saying yes, it's very helpful |
| 00:37.51 | Adys | it's not like i worked on it for almost two years |
| 00:37.51 | Cide | why wouldn't you be able to? |
| 00:37.53 | amro | have a field in the comment that's an identifier used within pywow |
| 00:38.10 | amro | you can then pull the pywow item from the comment and vice versa |
| 00:38.49 | Adys | Cide: because if you use pywow's model layer and tie it to another module within django, you HAVE to tie the same sort of models to that part of django |
| 00:39.00 | Kraps | http://kotaku.com/#!5757413/smouldering-first-trailer-for-x+men-first-class-tells-the-real-story-of-the-cuban-missile-crisis |
| 00:39.18 | Cide | I'm not really sure what you're saying |
| 00:39.23 | Adys | which means, if you want to use a different model layer for something thats not related to pywow (such as comments, screenshots, whatever), you have to rewrite whatever it ties into then |
| 00:39.25 | Cide | but amro's solution seems general enough to work |
| 00:39.39 | Adys | by the time you're done, you removed all the django imports in the entire project |
| 00:39.40 | amro | no adys |
| 00:39.46 | Adys | stop saying "no" |
| 00:39.50 | amro | pywow wouldn't be aware of the existence of comments |
| 00:39.51 | amro | at all |
| 00:39.55 | Adys | obviously |
| 00:39.56 | amro | comments would be aware of pywow |
| 00:40.02 | Cide | it just provides an identifier |
| 00:40.02 | Adys | i know that. |
| 00:40.08 | amro | yes |
| 00:40.19 | amro | where do you get to removing django imports? |
| 00:40.54 | Adys | because by the time you're done replacing parts of django that you no longer need because you wrote a custom interface for a specific feature, you're no longer using django at all |
| 00:40.59 | Adys | and are done writing your own framework |
| 00:41.07 | amro | you're extrapolating needlessly |
| 00:41.15 | Adys | im not extrapolating, I've done it |
| 00:41.32 | amro | in the above example. comments would be python models |
| 00:41.33 | *** join/#wowuidev d[karl]b (~karl@58-7-203-192.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 00:41.33 | Adys | i even got rid of sql entirely |
| 00:41.34 | amro | er |
| 00:41.35 | amro | django models |
| 00:41.49 | amro | where do you go from that to removing django? |
| 00:41.56 | amro | er, removing the model layer |
| 00:41.57 | Cide | just write a Comment django model, with an SQL key that contains your pywow identifier. write a view that takes said identifier and queries pywow |
| 00:41.58 | amro | or removing templates |
| 00:42.00 | amro | or removing views |
| 00:42.03 | Cide | done |
| 00:42.03 | amro | or removing the url mapper |
| 00:42.13 | amro | exactly Cide |
| 00:42.23 | Adys | you cant use a django model if you're using non-django models elsewhere, as long as they tie to a common part (such as the views) |
| 00:42.32 | amro | why can't you? |
| 00:42.35 | Adys | if you want to, you have to write your own views engine |
| 00:42.38 | amro | no you don't |
| 00:42.47 | amro | unless |
| 00:42.49 | amro | wiat a minute |
| 00:42.53 | amro | you want to use the views outside of django? |
| 00:42.58 | amro | and the comments and all that? |
| 00:43.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Zhinjio (~Geo@home.trippy.org) |
| 00:43.15 | Adys | because you just fucking cant, because django is fucking terrible, and because im too tired to explain the huge amount of attempts i made at fixing this the right way while still using django |
| 00:43.24 | Adys | theres none |
| 00:43.28 | amro | credible argument |
| 00:43.29 | amro | right there |
| 00:43.37 | Cide | lol |
| 00:43.37 | airtonix | i believe |
| 00:43.41 | airtonix | you |
| 00:43.48 | Adys | the right way is not to use django, and no, that's not right, and it doesn't mean i shouldnt have been using django in the first place |
| 00:43.54 | Adys | it means django is a terrible framework |
| 00:44.04 | airtonix | i believe you |
| 00:44.12 | Cide | I'm pretty sure I could solve your problem in about 5 minutes myself |
| 00:44.13 | airtonix | therfore i am now a monk |
| 00:44.21 | Cide | or you're doing something you're not explaining clearly |
| 00:44.23 | Cide | but regardless |
| 00:44.52 | Adys | Cide: theres a new coder on db.mmoc, i talked to him a couple weeks back, he was telling me how he wrote around 3000 lines of wrapper code for my django models |
| 00:44.59 | Cide | cool |
| 00:44.59 | Adys | to fix the very issues i was trying to fix when i left |
| 00:45.01 | amro | Kraps: why is old obama starring in the latest NCIS episode? |
| 00:45.04 | Cide | I have no experience whatsoever of your code base |
| 00:45.08 | Adys | talk to him, Im sure he has good things to say about django. |
| 00:45.22 | Kraps | amro: old obama? |
| 00:45.27 | Cide | like I said |
| 00:45.30 | Adys | then don't be an ass and say "i can solve your problem in 5 mins" |
| 00:45.31 | amro | he looks like an aged version of obama |
| 00:45.42 | amro | even sounds like him |
| 00:45.43 | Kraps | who? |
| 00:45.46 | airtonix | you |
| 00:45.52 | amro | I'm 22 seconds in |
| 00:45.52 | Cide | I don't see why you need to generate django models from your existing code |
| 00:45.57 | Cide | or write 3k lines of wrapper code |
| 00:46.00 | Cide | or do anything |
| 00:46.14 | Adys | as you said, you're not familiar with my codebase, and im not here to explain it to you either. what i said is true, there's no proper way to do this without either a huge amount of wrappers or completely replacing django |
| 00:46.15 | Cide | if you really *have* to do that I think you're trying to do something very arcane |
| 00:46.27 | Cide | then you're not using django for its purpose |
| 00:46.42 | Cide | all you need is to use django properly and call pywow where necessary |
| 00:46.52 | Cide | not some arcane shit where you generate models automatically or create wrappers |
| 00:47.08 | amro | Kraps: no wait, he just looked like him cause it was dark |
| 00:47.10 | Cide | maybe you do, but then you shouldn't use django |
| 00:47.24 | Kraps | amro: the ships commander? |
| 00:47.27 | amro | yes |
| 00:47.28 | Cide | or you just had the wrong design from the start and it's too late to change |
| 00:47.40 | Cide | I can't tell obviously |
| 00:47.59 | Kraps | maybe its his brother |
| 00:48.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Warloco (~theunknow@abarelds.xs4all.nl) |
| 00:48.24 | *** join/#wowuidev karl_w_w (~karl@203-59-6-162.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 00:48.32 | Adys | Cide: I'm repeating this one last time and then thats it: It's not a design issue, it's a framework issue. As I said before, if you truly want to experience this, maintain a complex app for a year using django. nothing i say will convince you of my case, so either believe me or try it yourself |
| 00:49.11 | amro | Adys: the problem is that people have been doing exactly that and they're not complaining |
| 00:49.22 | Adys | exactly what? |
| 00:49.32 | amro | maintaining apps for over a year |
| 00:49.39 | Adys | a blog is not an app. |
| 00:49.46 | amro | hilarious |
| 00:49.57 | Cide | I have written several apps with django |
| 00:50.06 | Adys | the only people i know who truly don't complain about it are people who maintain blogs |
| 00:50.13 | Cide | I have no issues whatsoever |
| 00:50.26 | Cide | and I have never run into django's limitations |
| 00:50.39 | Cide | and right now I'm integrating it with an external application written entirely in C++ |
| 00:50.49 | Cide | in fact I'm calling it as a third party shared object! |
| 00:50.49 | Adys | first of all |
| 00:51.22 | Adys | a LOT of people i know who maintain complex apps are either patching up django (with rejected patches), or trying very hard to switch to another framework |
| 00:51.47 | amro | they're likely not well written django applications |
| 00:51.50 | Adys | second of all, yeah, you've had issues, i even helped you deal with them and get rid of django in one of your apps. you haven't experienced the pain behind it because it was still early |
| 00:52.02 | Adys | amro: assumption alert |
| 00:52.22 | amro | Adys: if I set off one of those every time you made one, I'd get banned for spam |
| 00:52.38 | Adys | i haven't made a single assumption in my entire argument here |
| 00:52.39 | Cide | Adys: no, we came up with a better solution since my app is better served as client-server rather than both in one |
| 00:53.06 | Cide | but I'm confident I could have used it if my requirements didn't change |
| 00:53.13 | Adys | absolutely |
| 00:53.14 | Adys | you could have |
| 00:53.18 | Cide | without problems* |
| 00:53.23 | Adys | i wish you would have; you'd be having a different argument right now |
| 00:53.28 | Cide | nah |
| 00:53.47 | Adys | again, assumption vs experience |
| 00:53.48 | Adys | I'm done here |
| 00:53.59 | airtonix | hands Adys his coat |
| 00:53.59 | Cide | you can't extrapolate your experience onto others |
| 00:54.06 | amro | ^ |
| 00:54.39 | airtonix | !x japanese thanks for coming! |
| 00:54.46 | Adys | Cide: my experience involves watching other people believing they can "still make away with django" and come back six months later, crying harder than a warrior after a major patch |
| 00:54.50 | airtonix | :( |
| 00:55.00 | Kraps | there have been 4 arguments today WHATS HAPPENING TO THIS CHANNEL |
| 00:55.00 | Cide | lawl |
| 00:55.16 | Dagmar | It eats people's dreams. |
| 00:55.16 | Cide | Adys: and what were those projects, dare I ask? |
| 00:55.26 | Adys | like i remember |
| 00:55.33 | Cide | you should if you want to use it as an argument |
| 00:55.45 | Adys | why would I want to use it as an argument? |
| 00:55.45 | Cide | anyway |
| 00:55.49 | Cide | you just did |
| 00:55.59 | Cide | anyway, I doubt we'll get much more out of this discussion |
| 00:56.01 | Adys | you're the one who asked me to explain why I hate django |
| 00:56.05 | Cide | yes |
| 00:56.09 | Cide | and I haven't gotten a good answer :) |
| 00:56.11 | Cide | or rather |
| 00:56.13 | Cide | I know why you hate it |
| 00:56.19 | Cide | but I don't think it's a proper reason to do so |
| 00:56.21 | airtonix | purl |
| 00:56.30 | Cide | a bad fit for one project does not mean a bad fit for all projects |
| 00:56.36 | Jerub | "crying harder than a warrior after a major patch |
| 00:56.40 | Adys | i didn't say it was a bad fit for all projects |
| 00:56.40 | Jerub | ^QOTD |
| 00:56.58 | Adys | i said it was a bad fit for all complex-enough projects, making it a useless framework |
| 00:57.04 | Adys | django is a blog framework, nothing more |
| 00:57.05 | Cide | same is true of all frameworks |
| 00:57.18 | airtonix | at least it's not php |
| 00:57.22 | airtonix | hoho |
| 00:57.30 | cbreak | Qt is a great framework... :) |
| 00:57.34 | Cide | can you build an airplane control system out of werkzeug? |
| 00:57.35 | Kraps | Dagmar: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LotusEaterMachine |
| 00:57.36 | Adys | that can't be right since Im using other frameworks to run my app without experiencing any of these issues |
| 00:57.44 | Cide | no, because you are not allowed to use python |
| 00:57.47 | Cide | boom |
| 00:58.08 | Cide | Adys: you're using a light wsgi wrapper as far as I get it |
| 00:58.11 | amro | Adys: that's not a valid argument |
| 00:58.21 | amro | it just means you weren't using django properly |
| 00:58.22 | Cide | naturally you won't run into issues when all you're doing is passing in html to a webserver |
| 00:58.28 | Adys | to the fucking levels of hell with "valid arguments" |
| 00:58.36 | Adys | im explaining what the problem is with django |
| 00:58.43 | Cide | not quite |
| 00:58.46 | amro | you're not, you're explaining what was YOUR problem with django |
| 00:58.49 | airtonix | i lol'd |
| 00:58.54 | amro | which I don't disagree with |
| 00:58.59 | amro | what I disagree with is your extrapolation |
| 00:59.03 | Adys | my problem with django is consequently a problem with django |
| 00:59.08 | amro | no |
| 00:59.16 | amro | a lot of people say that about <insert technology here> |
| 00:59.25 | amro | most of them don't know what they're talking about |
| 00:59.53 | Adys | whether a problem is worth fixing within an app or not is irrelevant |
| 00:59.59 | Adys | a problem is still a problem |
| 01:00.10 | Adys | just like whitespace is a problem with python |
| 01:00.21 | Cide | I don't think your problem is a problem with django but rather a problem with the combination of your app+django |
| 01:00.33 | Cide | that is |
| 01:00.38 | Cide | your project shouldn't use django |
| 01:00.52 | Cide | hell if you can use werkzeug you can use django's HttpResponse("<insert html here>") and be done with it |
| 01:01.21 | Cide | since that's basically what werkzeug does isn't it |
| 01:01.23 | cbreak | I just read some discussions about django, and many complained about UTF8 is not Unicode and that it's not compatible with a string |
| 01:01.27 | cbreak | which sounds rather dumb |
| 01:01.34 | Cide | lolwut? |
| 01:01.37 | cbreak | because it is clear that UTF8 is a unicode encoding |
| 01:02.09 | cbreak | and a string that can't even store unicode is rather useless |
| 01:02.11 | Cide | I'm not sure what you're saying |
| 01:02.16 | Cide | django is 100% unicode |
| 01:02.34 | amro | Cide: I think he's saying some people are complaining that it's utf8 and not something retarded like utf32 |
| 01:02.35 | Adys | Cide: to sum it up, the real issue was to believe that even though "some parts" of my app required outside assistance, i could still use django for "the rest". i found out the hard way that i couldn't |
| 01:02.47 | Cide | oh |
| 01:02.53 | Cide | why would it *not* use utf8 |
| 01:03.04 | Cide | utf8 is by far the most common encoding |
| 01:03.05 | Adys | and as soon as your app requires something that cannot be done in django, in a part you're currently handling with django, you have to switch to a different framework. you cant drop at a lower level. |
| 01:03.09 | amro | if you're insane and like munching ram Cide |
| 01:03.15 | Cide | I DO |
| 01:03.19 | amro | ! |
| 01:03.20 | Cide | GIVE ME UTF128 |
| 01:03.30 | Cide | OR GIVE ME DEATH |
| 01:03.33 | airtonix | or use windows 7 |
| 01:03.36 | Adys | utf128 is for ascii arts as single chars |
| 01:03.54 | Cide | Adys: you can drop to a lower level with all parts of django |
| 01:04.02 | Adys | yeah, as i said, pure bs |
| 01:04.04 | amro | Adys: it just seems like you've made up your mind no matter what |
| 01:04.14 | Cide | you can drop to .extra() or .raw() for models, or write custom fields, or write custom managers, or write custom database engines (!) |
| 01:04.48 | Cide | not much complexity with the view level since it just uses callables |
| 01:04.56 | Adys | first of all, writing a custom db engine is something i tried to do. it doesn't work, because the current db layer has expectations that are completely tied to the current db engines |
| 01:05.10 | *** join/#wowuidev mascondante (~kvirc@pool-72-71-115-168.atl01.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 01:05.11 | Adys | even ibm with their ibm-db engine whined about it |
| 01:05.29 | Cide | and the devs said that anything they bring up can be patched in |
| 01:05.30 | cbreak | ibm are incompetent |
| 01:05.38 | amro | ^ |
| 01:05.42 | cbreak | they lost a whole bunch of top secret E-Mails from my government |
| 01:05.44 | Adys | the nosql engine guys also whined about it |
| 01:05.47 | Cide | right |
| 01:05.51 | Cide | it's written entirely for sql |
| 01:05.52 | Adys | EVERYONE who wrote a custom engine whined about it |
| 01:05.53 | *** join/#wowuidev karl_w_w (~karl@124-169-212-64.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 01:05.53 | Arrowmaster | do you guys realize youve been at this for over an hour? |
| 01:06.00 | Cide | it's written entirely for sql. |
| 01:06.02 | Nobgul | I just got more popcorn. |
| 01:06.05 | amro | Arrowmaster: I do, I ran out of popcorn |
| 01:06.06 | Adys | google forked django for their GAE db |
| 01:06.12 | Arrowmaster | i just got home |
| 01:06.13 | Cide | which isn't sql either. |
| 01:06.15 | Nobgul | shares with amro |
| 01:06.16 | amro | did you just call it a gay db |
| 01:06.22 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3|netbook (~kd3@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 01:06.23 | Cide | the point is |
| 01:06.26 | Adys | Cide: ibm-db is sql |
| 01:06.39 | Adys | i gave you examples from all sides here, and all sides complained. |
| 01:06.43 | Adys | second of all, .raw() and so on are illusions. |
| 01:06.46 | Cide | and they're helping patch django to better support the weirdness that ibm-db brings |
| 01:06.55 | Cide | you gave two examples |
| 01:07.08 | Cide | 1) non-SQL databases, 2) IBM-LOL |
| 01:07.10 | Cide | 2) is being fixed |
| 01:07.12 | Cide | 1) is being fixed |
| 01:07.15 | Cide | your point? |
| 01:07.19 | airtonix | i love django |
| 01:07.24 | Adys | nosql, gae and ibm-db, three of the most widely used examples worldwide that aren't supported by django core |
| 01:07.31 | Cide | right |
| 01:07.42 | Cide | but it's being worked on to work |
| 01:07.45 | Adys | had i written "my custom db engine" it would also have been non-sql |
| 01:07.51 | Adys | so as i said, moot argument |
| 01:07.56 | Cide | your argument is moot, yes |
| 01:08.09 | Cide | the fact that django's database layer is SQL only is a known limitation that they're actively working to fix |
| 01:08.10 | amro | this is better than NCIS |
| 01:08.13 | Adys | dude, even the django core sqlite engine doesn't work properly because of django's quirks |
| 01:08.16 | amro | hits the pause button on vlc |
| 01:08.26 | Cide | you mean sqlite's quirks |
| 01:08.42 | Cide | like data integrity? more like data tegrity |
| 01:08.44 | Adys | if you fucking want all db engines to be one and the same THERE WOULD BE NO NEED for a db layer |
| 01:08.50 | Cide | I don't |
| 01:09.02 | Cide | but you can't hate a framework because it does not support everything under the sun |
| 01:09.09 | airtonix | :( |
| 01:09.14 | airtonix | you mean i can't have cake |
| 01:09.14 | Cide | and even so what you're complaining about is being worked on actively |
| 01:09.27 | cbreak | just use SQL |
| 01:09.30 | Nobgul | shares popcorn with airtonix |
| 01:09.35 | cbreak | many products support it :) |
| 01:09.42 | Adys | the django db layer is written with mysql and postgresql in mind. every other db engine has issues with it. theres a lot of hardcoded shit inside, and you cannot in any way tie it up with sqlalchemy or what not |
| 01:09.56 | Adys | "writing your own db engine" is not feasible |
| 01:09.58 | Cide | last year's google summer project by Alex Gaynor was entirely focused on bringing non-SQL support to the database layer |
| 01:10.03 | Adys | yes, and it failed |
| 01:10.06 | Cide | no? |
| 01:10.11 | Cide | it's just not integrated into trunk yet |
| 01:10.25 | Adys | ah I'm sorry, django is great, it's just going to show within the next five to eight years |
| 01:10.30 | Cide | cool |
| 01:10.32 | Cide | solid argument |
| 01:10.33 | Cide | brb reboot |
| 01:11.15 | Adys | if I go to bed right now, i've won the argument |
| 01:11.21 | airtonix | no |
| 01:11.22 | airtonix | i did |
| 01:11.23 | mckenziemc | lol |
| 01:11.42 | mckenziemc | sorry airtonix, but the cake is a lie |
| 01:12.04 | airtonix | yeah it kinda tastes like salami |
| 01:12.12 | cbreak | mckenziemc: I think that's a common misconception |
| 01:12.20 | cbreak | the real quote is: "The cake is a pie" |
| 01:12.38 | mckenziemc | >.> |
| 01:14.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Cide@s213-103-219-177.cust.tele2.se) |
| 01:14.26 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 01:14.34 | airtonix | so cide, i won |
| 01:14.47 | Cide | hi |
| 01:14.48 | Cide | cool |
| 01:15.52 | Cide | so is there an ORM that does both SQL and no-SQL? |
| 01:16.04 | amro | MONGODB |
| 01:16.11 | amro | it also cures cancer |
| 01:16.16 | Cide | that's a a no-sql database |
| 01:16.25 | amro | no, that's sarcasm |
| 01:16.27 | amro | =) |
| 01:16.28 | Cide | lawl |
| 01:16.43 | Cide | anyway, is there? |
| 01:17.08 | Cide | interesting |
| 01:17.14 | Cide | tornado doesn't even have an orm! |
| 01:17.14 | amro | I doubt it, it would be difficult to merge the paradigms without sacrificing their uniqueness |
| 01:17.20 | Jerub | NOSQL IS WEBSCALE |
| 01:17.34 | Cide | that's neat |
| 01:17.44 | Cide | django is blamed for not having something that doesn't even exist yet |
| 01:17.56 | Cide | clearly the devs should have had more foresight |
| 01:18.02 | Adys | sigh |
| 01:18.06 | Adys | Cide: i gave you sql examples |
| 01:18.15 | Cide | of what? |
| 01:18.21 | Adys | and gae isn't nosql |
| 01:18.23 | Adys | its part-sql |
| 01:18.34 | Cide | but not really sql |
| 01:18.43 | Adys | it's not sql syntax but it's very similar. |
| 01:18.54 | Cide | but it's not an sql database |
| 01:19.04 | Cide | the fact that it uses sql-like syntax is irrelevant |
| 01:19.10 | Adys | who the f cares? the only interface for django is the text interface |
| 01:19.16 | Adys | which is common for both sql and gae |
| 01:19.25 | Cide | I'm confused |
| 01:19.46 | Adys | gae is very much like sql in most parts |
| 01:19.52 | Adys | it's not the non-sql parts causing issues |
| 01:20.03 | Cide | what is relevant is that django's db layer's data structures can be used to express a query |
| 01:20.17 | Cide | the fact that it's coded with SQL in mind is what limits it from working with GAE |
| 01:20.31 | Cide | in most no-SQL languages there's no concept of joins at all, for instance |
| 01:20.33 | Adys | i gave you pure sql examples |
| 01:20.40 | Cide | I wasn't here to see them if so? |
| 01:20.52 | airtonix | no doesn't matter |
| 01:21.01 | Adys | ibm-db is one |
| 01:21.05 | Cide | right |
| 01:21.14 | Cide | and it has some peculiarities as far as I understand |
| 01:21.18 | fusionpit | does lua do the combined operator thing, like x += instead of x=x+1? |
| 01:21.25 | mckenziemc | no |
| 01:21.25 | Cide | but I believe django's limitations in that area are being worked on |
| 01:21.28 | Adys | fusionpit: it's += and it doesn't |
| 01:21.45 | Cide | http://code.google.com/p/ibm-db/ |
| 01:21.49 | Cide | seems like they are fixed |
| 01:21.56 | Adys | thats written by ibm |
| 01:22.01 | Cide | yes |
| 01:22.04 | Cide | for stock django 1.3 |
| 01:22.07 | Adys | i know |
| 01:22.15 | Adys | they complained about the django db layers |
| 01:22.21 | Cide | and they were fixed |
| 01:22.22 | Adys | and a lot of features cant be supported because of it |
| 01:22.32 | Cide | or are being fixed |
| 01:22.34 | Cide | for 1.3 |
| 01:22.37 | Cide | as far as I understand |
| 01:22.42 | Adys | and in other news, "it does have some peculiarities" OF COURSE IT DOES, that is why someone's writing a custom db engine for it... |
| 01:23.01 | Cide | I'm not talking syntax peculiarities |
| 01:23.12 | Adys | if it didn't have peculiarities, there wouldn't be a need for a db layer that takes care of abstracting peculiarities away |
| 01:23.30 | Cide | if someone was to change "SELECT" to "GRABME" in postgresql that'd be a one line change in django |
| 01:23.44 | Cide | what's peculiar is that db2 does some strange stuff that no other database does |
| 01:24.14 | Adys | exactly |
| 01:24.16 | Adys | it has features |
| 01:24.16 | Cide | and as far as sqlite goes I believe django's sqlite engine is as feature rich as sqlite allows it to be |
| 01:25.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Motig (~Motig@dhcp-077-249-165-250.chello.nl) |
| 01:26.06 | Adys | Arrowmaster: ping |
| 01:26.26 | Cide | but regardless, every piece of software has issues and bugs and design problems |
| 01:26.26 | Arrowmaster | Adys: pong |
| 01:26.30 | Adys | Arrowmaster: anything special to do to enable gallium3d? |
| 01:26.38 | Arrowmaster | whats that? |
| 01:26.39 | Adys | from what i read it should be enabled by default (using nouveau) |
| 01:26.45 | Adys | 3d support for OS drivers |
| 01:26.49 | Arrowmaster | never used nouveau |
| 01:27.01 | Cide | so yes, you can't write a database engine for noSQL (yet), but on the other hand you can use all of django with noSQL if you find another orm |
| 01:27.02 | Adys | well its got support for intel/ati too |
| 01:27.30 | Arrowmaster | i use the closed source nvidia drivers |
| 01:27.45 | Adys | same usually, but they dont work with 10.1 |
| 01:27.54 | Adys | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-February/032378.html |
| 01:28.03 | Adys | s/10.1/1.10/ |
| 01:31.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen1 (~Sixen@173-25-23-86.client.mchsi.com) |
| 01:32.11 | Arrowmaster | Xorg 1.10? |
| 01:34.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Ketho (~Ketho@ip565063bd.direct-adsl.nl) |
| 01:36.29 | kd3|netbook | it did just land, didn't it? |
| 01:36.37 | Arrowmaster | wow i guess so |
| 01:37.07 | Arrowmaster | debian just released squeeze with 1.7 but it was only frozen for 6 months |
| 01:37.18 | Arrowmaster | kinda shocked they jumped version numbers that high that fast |
| 01:37.23 | kd3|netbook | wow, 1.7 that's bleeding edge for debian |
| 01:37.54 | Arrowmaster | new stable as of saturday jackass |
| 01:38.39 | Arrowmaster | X in sid is currently broken due to Xorg 1.9 being put in |
| 01:41.14 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3|netbook (~kd3@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 01:41.55 | kd3|netbook | grr |
| 01:42.06 | kd3|netbook | man, ITS really screwed up wifi this week |
| 01:46.12 | Arrowmaster | go ask to replace them |
| 01:57.43 | kd3|netbook | crossed my mind a few times this week; along with most of the rest of the people in my cs classes |
| 02:03.20 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix_ (~quassel@unaffiliated/airtonix) |
| 02:04.33 | bluspacecow | hai2u kd3 |
| 02:13.14 | kd3|netbook | 'lo 'lo |
| 02:13.21 | kd3|netbook | also, g'bye, as class is done. yay |
| 02:20.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (~tuller@c-69-143-52-174.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 02:44.25 | Shirik | ~wiki User:Mohammad Alam Khan |
| 02:45.18 | amro | Shirik: what did you mean by clamp the lines in the PSU? |
| 02:46.38 | Shirik | It's the typical way a PSU reacts to a really bad situation, like an overcurrent |
| 02:46.57 | Shirik | clamping means a lot of things, but the end result is really "cuts off power" |
| 02:47.16 | amro | is that what's happening in this scenario? |
| 02:47.24 | Shirik | what scenario? |
| 02:47.45 | Shirik | According to the ATX specification there's only very specific reasons it's allowed to do that, the most common being an overcurrent |
| 02:47.48 | amro | 12v motor hooked up to the 12v rail via a potentiometer |
| 02:48.02 | amro | when the potentiometer is cranked up, the psu turns off |
| 02:48.14 | Shirik | Sounds like you're pulling too much current then |
| 02:48.31 | Arrowmaster | wait you were serious when you said that thing needs 25A? |
| 02:48.32 | Shirik | You could try splitting it across several supplies, but be very careful with that |
| 02:48.40 | mckenziemc | " Blanket talent respecs are actually very disruptive. The least of which is probably not the thousands of in-game petitions from people asking where their abilities went, asking for spec advice, reporting bugs that they can't cast X anymore, etc." |
| 02:48.46 | amro | wouldn't increasing the resistance of the potentiometer reduce current? |
| 02:48.47 | Shirik | You can't hook up CV sources in parallel |
| 02:48.50 | Shirik | Yes |
| 02:48.54 | Cide | I got your staff Shirik |
| 02:48.58 | amro | so how would that result in an overcurrent? |
| 02:48.59 | Shirik | fu Cide |
| 02:49.03 | Arrowmaster | oh |
| 02:49.03 | Shirik | You said "up" |
| 02:49.08 | Shirik | You did not define what "up" means |
| 02:49.15 | Shirik | so I assumed you meant "increased current" |
| 02:49.15 | amro | Arrowmaster: that's what he says, it wouldn't work at all with weaker PSUs |
| 02:49.18 | amro | ah |
| 02:49.22 | amro | I meant increased resistance |
| 02:49.34 | amro | so what's causing it to shut off then? |
| 02:49.49 | Shirik | Is it actually shutting off? |
| 02:49.58 | Shirik | How are you measuring that |
| 02:50.22 | amro | he said the motor stops and he has to reset the PSU before it works again |
| 02:50.54 | Shirik | ok that's not how to test that |
| 02:50.55 | Shirik | and I have a guess |
| 02:51.03 | Shirik | do you know what the stall current on that motor is? |
| 02:51.33 | amro | he just yanked it out of some engine I don't think he has any specs other than votlage |
| 02:51.38 | Shirik | It's probably close to 60A if it's drawing a constant 25A normally |
| 02:51.46 | Shirik | And I seriously doubt your PSU is going to let you draw 60A |
| 02:51.51 | Dagmar | Let me guess, he's hooking up the potentiometer and the motor in series |
| 02:51.55 | Shirik | Once the motor stops, getting it to start back up again is really difficult |
| 02:52.23 | amro | he said he spliced the rails giving him 67A in theory |
| 02:52.34 | Shirik | How did he arrive at the number 67? |
| 02:52.37 | Dagmar | Uh no. |
| 02:52.48 | Shirik | You can't just do watts / voltage |
| 02:52.51 | Dagmar | The wall outlet would literally shoot out of it's socket |
| 02:52.58 | amro | hm |
| 02:53.00 | amro | that's what he did |
| 02:53.05 | mckenziemc | lua> 67 * 12 |
| 02:53.05 | lua_bot | mckenziemc: 804 |
| 02:53.06 | Dagmar | The circuit the PSU is plugged into is probably 20A at *most* |
| 02:53.09 | Shirik | There's a limit to what those lines are actually going to let you do |
| 02:53.19 | Shirik | Dagmar: But the wall is at 120V (or 240) |
| 02:53.28 | mckenziemc | Dagmar, 67A at 12V not 67A at 120 |
| 02:53.46 | mckenziemc | though i still don't believe it :O |
| 02:54.20 | amro | don't believe what? |
| 02:54.23 | Shirik | The wires would melt |
| 02:54.25 | Shirik | really |
| 02:54.32 | Dagmar | It means he could maybe get 2440 _watts_ |
| 02:54.34 | Shirik | Trust me that PSU is not going to let you do 67A |
| 02:54.34 | mckenziemc | that it's drawing 60A |
| 02:54.48 | Dagmar | Sixty-seven amps is just laughably out of the question |
| 02:54.50 | Shirik | Yeah I do have to admit even 25A is a pretty serious motor |
| 02:55.10 | mckenziemc | err yeah something's wrong here |
| 02:55.17 | Shirik | Next time he runs his test |
| 02:55.24 | Shirik | well |
| 02:55.27 | Shirik | no |
| 02:55.34 | Shirik | How is he figuring out these currents? |
| 02:55.49 | amro | which? the 25A requirement? |
| 02:55.52 | Shirik | yes |
| 02:56.12 | amro | I think it's a guesstimate based on previous PSUs that weren't powerful enough and the one that is |
| 02:56.12 | Cide | Shirik: have you researched power torrent vs heartsong? |
| 02:56.23 | mckenziemc | amro: tell him to hold a knife in each hand, stick them into the wall outlet, and be done with it :O |
| 02:56.45 | amro | that wouldn't do anything, good knives are insulated |
| 02:56.52 | Shirik | yes Cide |
| 02:56.59 | Cide | pt better? |
| 02:56.59 | Shirik | Heartsong beats it out |
| 02:57.04 | Cide | for regen sure |
| 02:57.07 | Cide | but overall? |
| 02:57.11 | Shirik | ok I've only looked at regen |
| 02:57.26 | Cide | harder to measure throughput |
| 02:57.33 | Dagmar | amro: If this is a desktop PC's PSU he needs to go grab an EE book and refresh his memory |
| 02:57.35 | Shirik | amro: Let me put it this way |
| 02:57.37 | amro | Cide: I'd imagine it varies |
| 02:57.47 | Shirik | Do you know how big the electrical cords are for dryers? |
| 02:57.56 | amro | Dagmar: what memory? he's not an electrical engineer of any kind |
| 02:57.58 | Dagmar | Shirik: Good approach |
| 02:58.05 | amro | Shirik: yep |
| 02:58.09 | Dagmar | amro: no wonder |
| 02:58.11 | Shirik | Your dryer takes 40A |
| 02:58.16 | Shirik | (probably) |
| 02:58.34 | Dagmar | Right so at the office there's a few racks we're waiting for the cluster guys to get fired up to full tilt |
| 02:58.36 | Shirik | The size of the cord is directly related to the current flowing through it |
| 02:58.48 | Shirik | Now imagine that going through some electronics |
| 02:58.51 | Shirik | which is what you're asking right now |
| 02:58.55 | Dagmar | Ten machines, each 4u high, each with four GeForce 480 GTXs in them for CUDA |
| 02:58.55 | Shirik | Not gonna happen :) |
| 02:59.34 | Dagmar | Each of those cards is supposed to go over 200W under full load. |
| 02:59.39 | Shirik | I think some of his numbers must be off |
| 02:59.44 | amro | Shirik: right, so his estimate is wrong |
| 02:59.44 | Shirik | because it really doesn't make sense what he's saying here |
| 02:59.46 | amro | yeah |
| 02:59.49 | Dagmar | THAT'S not even 67A |
| 03:00.24 | Shirik | So the deal with the potentiometer |
| 03:00.24 | amro | that or he never gave it time to catch fire |
| 03:00.45 | Shirik | I have a feeling that once the motor's stopped, the PSU can't put out enough power to get it up again |
| 03:01.02 | Shirik | That is a condition where it is allowed to clamp the voltage to 0 |
| 03:01.02 | amro | well, it had enough power to start it to begin with didn't it? |
| 03:01.23 | Shirik | did he help it? :) |
| 03:01.34 | amro | possible |
| 03:01.39 | Dagmar | The PSU is probably seeing him try to draw OMGLOTS of power over those rails and just saying "NO" |
| 03:01.52 | Shirik | There's one other alternative |
| 03:01.58 | amro | no, it only stops once he increases the resistence on the potentiometer |
| 03:02.03 | amro | it works if he's drawing full power |
| 03:02.10 | amro | -e+a |
| 03:02.28 | Dagmar | The only load on the circuit is the motor then |
| 03:02.41 | amro | yes |
| 03:03.01 | amro | and one theory is that the PSU doesn't like not having a load and shuts off |
| 03:03.01 | Shirik | So the other alternative is that he started the motor with a lower resistance on the pot |
| 03:03.09 | amro | but Shirik says it's not suppposed to be doing that |
| 03:03.22 | Shirik | The reason this is a factor is because a stopped motor acts like a short circuit |
| 03:03.40 | Shirik | hm no that wouldn't make sense |
| 03:03.48 | Shirik | higher, possibly, but that doesn't fit your criteria |
| 03:04.09 | Shirik | yeah I think I would need to see it myself to really give you a good explanation :) |
| 03:04.14 | Shirik | Too much stuff I really can't trust |
| 03:04.35 | mckenziemc | Fiskers Shirik. |
| 03:05.08 | Dagmar | I'm pretty sure the PSU is just shutting those lines down in self-defense |
| 03:05.24 | Dagmar | A tiny slot racer motor you could run off a PSU |
| 03:05.31 | amro | Shirik: can't make out much but... http://www.dyadgame.com/TheMachine/IMG_0724.JPG |
| 03:05.47 | Shirik | time machine? |
| 03:05.52 | Shirik | oh the machine |
| 03:05.58 | mckenziemc | rofl |
| 03:06.11 | amro | you're not supposed to know it's a time machine |
| 03:06.19 | Shirik | look let me break it down for you |
| 03:06.32 | Shirik | if that thing is really taking 25A at 12V, you're going to need a professional power supply |
| 03:06.35 | Dagmar | Counterweights filled with cheap casio watches then |
| 03:06.36 | Arrowmaster | that looks like erectorset parts |
| 03:06.43 | Shirik | If it's taking 25A but can go above 12V, you need to stop running it at 12V |
| 03:07.00 | Shirik | also, I have that same screwdriver |
| 03:07.26 | Dagmar | Oh god it is a PC PSU |
| 03:07.49 | Arrowmaster | that was said days ago Dagmar |
| 03:07.52 | Dagmar | That motor's the size of a small soda can |
| 03:08.26 | Arrowmaster | whats the usb from the laptop going to? |
| 03:08.41 | Dagmar | hopefully the fire suppression system |
| 03:08.53 | Arrowmaster | lol |
| 03:08.55 | amro | Shirik: that's what I told him, he's trying to make this work because they're too expensive |
| 03:09.05 | Shirik | do you know what the wattage is on the PSU? |
| 03:09.06 | Kraps | "The film's premise-that Bieber achieved his superstardom through years of hard work overcoming towering obstacles-is so ludicrously flawed that everything built upon it borders on self-parody." |
| 03:09.11 | Kraps | oh snap |
| 03:09.13 | Dagmar | Amro: he needs a MUCH less demanding motor, and he should be controlling it with PWM |
| 03:09.57 | amro | I don't think downsizing the motor is an option |
| 03:10.24 | Dagmar | Then he needs to hunt in some antique shops for some tiny books on building DC power supplies |
| 03:10.27 | Arrowmaster | i need to find where i put all that stuff i was going to use to water cool my pc years ago, now i want to know how powerful that 12v psu i bought for the 200watt TEC is |
| 03:10.45 | Shirik | amro: Do you know the wattage on the PSU? |
| 03:10.46 | amro | Shirik: I think in the neighborhood of 600 |
| 03:10.51 | amro | don't know for certain |
| 03:11.44 | Arrowmaster | the idea that he spliced it so that he got more than the normal amps from a single rail is kinda crazy then |
| 03:11.54 | Shirik | ... oh shit |
| 03:11.57 | Shirik | it IS allowed to latch off |
| 03:12.00 | Shirik | who designed that crap |
| 03:12.05 | Dagmar | It's do that, or catch fire. |
| 03:12.13 | Arrowmaster | 600 watt psus didnt have more than one 12v rail afaik |
| 03:12.15 | Shirik | 3.4.3. No-load Operation |
| 03:12.15 | Shirik | No damage or hazardous condition should occur with all the DC output connectors |
| 03:12.15 | Shirik | disconnected from the load. The power supply may latch into the shutdown state. |
| 03:12.39 | Shirik | Here's an idea |
| 03:12.42 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: Some do. I was shopping for one this afternoon, but either way, he's not getting 67a out of them |
| 03:12.56 | Shirik | Stick a large resistor (1kohm +) from 5VSB to ground |
| 03:13.00 | Shirik | see what happens |
| 03:13.15 | Arrowmaster | the 900watt psu i shiped back to the manufactur thismorning had 4 12v rails each with 25A |
| 03:13.41 | amro | Shirik: trying to reach him but his blackberry's off, I'm a few thousand kilometers from the setup myself so I can't test |
| 03:13.50 | Shirik | Arrowmaster: Amusing, that exceeds specs (illegally) |
| 03:14.08 | Arrowmaster | really? |
| 03:14.16 | Dagmar | Yeah but the people running with several viddy cards aren't going to complain |
| 03:14.18 | Arrowmaster | sec i still have the papers so let me check to make sure |
| 03:14.21 | Shirik | The specs say (can confirm since I'm reading them right now) that 20A on the 12V line must be considered an overcurrent condition |
| 03:14.22 | amro | Shirik: link to that spec btw? |
| 03:14.34 | Shirik | (though most will consider it far below that) |
| 03:14.37 | Dagmar | Shirik: 'cuz that wire gets a little melty then. ;) |
| 03:14.54 | Shirik | http://www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/ATX12V_PSDG_2_2_public_br2.pdf <-- It's a design GUIDE, not the actual spec, but there are certain things which ARE specs |
| 03:15.01 | Arrowmaster | oh wait, 4 12v rails, at 25A 20A 22A 22A |
| 03:15.35 | Shirik | 3.4.4. Over-current Protection |
| 03:15.35 | Shirik | Overload currents applied to each tested output rail will cause the output to trip before |
| 03:15.35 | Shirik | reaching or exceeding 240 VA. |
| 03:16.05 | Dagmar | Of course, dropping a screwdriver into an open power supply or a paper clip onto a motherboard will tell you these things, too |
| 03:16.05 | Arrowmaster | ofcourse with all the psus ive seen with multiple 12v rails its always been impossible to tell which rail is which |
| 03:16.17 | Shirik | which, if you do the math, on a 12V is 20A |
| 03:16.49 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: So... if this was a PSU he just "had around" what do you think the odds are of it being a stereoid-pumped gamers PSU with multiple 12V rails |
| 03:16.56 | Dagmar | Im thinking they're pretty low |
| 03:16.59 | Arrowmaster | same |
| 03:17.35 | Arrowmaster | hell ive seen high watt psus with just one 12v rail |
| 03:18.21 | Arrowmaster | also, why there hell are there 6 and 8 pin PCI-e connectors |
| 03:18.35 | Dagmar | ATX v2 |
| 03:18.55 | Arrowmaster | but the only difference is 2 extra grounds on the 8 pin |
| 03:18.56 | Dagmar | ...although more strictly speaking, probably EPS12v |
| 03:19.38 | Dagmar | Using a wall mounting light switch tho... *pro* |
| 03:19.47 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI (~chatzilla@ip68-5-190-59.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 03:19.53 | Kraps | http://www.destructoid.com/jerk-hijacks-xbox-live-account-threatens-school-shooting-193702.phtml |
| 03:20.52 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 03:23.28 | kd3 | hm. adventures in electrocution |
| 03:23.32 | kd3 | skims the scrollback |
| 03:24.27 | Shirik | You know what amro |
| 03:24.49 | Shirik | I have decided it is impossible that your issue is the "no load" issue |
| 03:25.05 | Shirik | Unless he physically disconnects the motor |
| 03:25.17 | Shirik | If the motor stops, it will be drawing MORE current than if it were running |
| 03:25.28 | amro | so it's overdraw? |
| 03:25.46 | Shirik | I can't really tell without some real numbers |
| 03:26.09 | Arrowmaster | i hate how slow USPS is at updating their tracking info online |
| 03:26.10 | amro | how would you design the circuit? the potentiometer is just there to control the motor's output |
| 03:26.18 | kd3 | ok. this is neat-and-or-crazy |
| 03:26.22 | kd3 | http://cbc.arizona.edu/njardarson/group/top-pharmaceuticals-poster |
| 03:26.27 | Shirik | Don't turn the potentiometer high enough to stall the motor :) |
| 03:26.35 | Shirik | There's a way to force that |
| 03:26.48 | Shirik | You put a resistor in parallel with the potentiometer with some math to bound the range of it |
| 03:27.13 | Shirik | the value of the parallel resistor would decide the max resistance |
| 03:27.24 | Shirik | The min value would remain 0 |
| 03:27.43 | amro | so the issue here is that the motor can't run at such a low voltage, rather than the psu? |
| 03:27.53 | amro | if that's the case then problem solved |
| 03:28.05 | Shirik | Oh that's another issue |
| 03:28.08 | Shirik | I'm a dumbass |
| 03:28.15 | Shirik | You're creating a voltage divider |
| 03:28.51 | Kraps | crossing the line... 3 times? yes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbrgtPfpth0 |
| 03:28.58 | Shirik | When the resistance of the potentiometer equals the resistance of the motor, your motor now has 6V going across it |
| 03:28.59 | Shirik | not 12 |
| 03:29.07 | Shirik | As that raises, the voltage across the motor is going down |
| 03:29.18 | amro | give me a minute while I translate what you just said |
| 03:29.46 | Dagmar | That's still the wrong way to do it |
| 03:30.05 | Shirik | May I interject for a moment and say "this is why motors suck. Use a servo." |
| 03:30.06 | airtonix | Shirik: i assume that sex swing is actually a controller for the game ? |
| 03:30.17 | amro | are you saying that 6v is the maximum the motor is getting in that circuit? |
| 03:30.19 | Dagmar | ROFL |
| 03:30.31 | Shirik | Not necessarily |
| 03:30.35 | Shirik | I AM saying it's less than 12V |
| 03:30.44 | Shirik | Here's a formula |
| 03:31.22 | Shirik | V = IRp + IRm, where Rp is the resistance of the potentiometer and Rm is the resistance of the motor |
| 03:31.46 | Dagmar | ...and DC motors like a fixed current. |
| 03:31.47 | Shirik | I is fixed |
| 03:31.56 | Shirik | I(Rp + Rm) = V |
| 03:32.02 | Shirik | V is known, it's 12V |
| 03:32.15 | Shirik | Now here's your problem |
| 03:32.18 | Dagmar | ...which is why ya need to cook up a PWM circuit to keep feeding it a fixed voltage instead of trying to start a fire with that variable resistor |
| 03:32.29 | Shirik | As Rp goes up, so does the voltage across the potentiometer |
| 03:32.37 | Shirik | As a result, the voltage across the motor goes down |
| 03:32.40 | amro | what's I though? I'm not familiar with latin notation |
| 03:32.44 | Shirik | I is current |
| 03:33.05 | Shirik | Sorry I shouldn't say fixed, I meant to say it's the same for the potentiometer and the motor |
| 03:33.07 | Shirik | since they're in series |
| 03:33.43 | Dagmar | Building a PWM controller is not particularly expensive |
| 03:34.35 | *** part/#wowuidev bluspacecow (~bluspacec@60-234-165-167.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) |
| 03:34.48 | Dagmar | Example: http://www.aaroncake.net/circuits/motorcon.asp |
| 03:35.21 | Shirik | IRp + IRm = V --> V = I(Rp + Rm) --> V / (Rp + Rm) = I --> I/V = 1/(Rp + Rm) --> V/I = Rp + Rm --> V/I - Rm = Rp |
| 03:35.43 | Shirik | V and Rm are fixed |
| 03:36.10 | Shirik | Rp impacts I as a function of V = I (Rm + Rp), I = V / (Rm + Rp) |
| 03:36.34 | amro | doesn't that increase the voltage as Rp goes up? |
| 03:36.45 | Shirik | V / (V / Rm + Rp) ) - Rm = Rp --> (Rm + Rp) - Rm = Rp... oops |
| 03:36.47 | Shirik | well that's obvious |
| 03:36.56 | Shirik | I'm trying to get you to a useful formula here, sigh |
| 03:37.02 | amro | you said it goes down though |
| 03:37.09 | Shirik | The voltage does not change, period |
| 03:37.19 | Shirik | What DOES change is the voltage across the motor |
| 03:37.43 | Shirik | Let us take the simple case where the resistance of the motor is equal to the resistance of the potentiometer |
| 03:37.48 | Shirik | in that case, each of them has 6V going across it |
| 03:38.03 | Shirik | If you raise the resistance of the potentiometer, the voltage across the potentiometer will rise |
| 03:38.12 | Shirik | At the same time, the voltage across the motor will drop |
| 03:38.17 | Shirik | the sum of the two must always be 12V |
| 03:38.30 | Shirik | Now, what Dagmar said was right. The CORRECT way to do this is to use PWM |
| 03:38.36 | Dagmar | ...and will simply piss off the motor at sufficiently low levels |
| 03:38.38 | Shirik | But that's going to require some software or something |
| 03:38.43 | Dagmar | Nah |
| 03:38.50 | Dagmar | That URL I posted has a pretty damn simple circuit |
| 03:38.53 | Shirik | I guess you could do it with a 555 timer |
| 03:38.55 | Shirik | I didn't look at it |
| 03:39.18 | Dagmar | You can do this with a few dinky 555's and LM374's (not sure about about that number anymore) |
| 03:39.23 | Dagmar | They're both common and cheap |
| 03:40.18 | Shirik | ha, that's a neat little circuit |
| 03:40.38 | Dagmar | There's at least a dozen circuits for this sort of thing easily dug up with Google, in part because of all the homebrew Arduino people trying to drive motors with the tiny little thing |
| 03:41.17 | Shirik | I drove something with the power of a vacuum cleaner on an arduino :D |
| 03:41.22 | Shirik | But um |
| 03:41.28 | Shirik | we used aircraft components in it |
| 03:41.35 | Shirik | because that's what we had at our disposal >< |
| 03:41.42 | Dagmar | Well, I've had to be paying attention to this lately because my scooter has a pretty lightweight 12V system |
| 03:42.23 | Dagmar | Having to kickstart one because you've murdered the battery is just humiliating tho |
| 03:42.45 | kd3 | it's a scooter |
| 03:42.48 | Dagmar | It has a stereo. |
| 03:42.50 | kd3 | isn't that humiliating enough? |
| 03:42.54 | Dagmar | ...which is louder than the engine. |
| 03:43.06 | Dagmar | If I want to add a woofer tho, I have to get rid of some bulbs |
| 03:43.08 | Jerub | s/ to kickstart // |
| 03:43.15 | Shirik | anyway amro, that circuit will work |
| 03:43.17 | Jerub | s/ because you've murdered the battery// |
| 03:43.23 | Shirik | alternatively you can always do it with an arduino and some simple code |
| 03:43.25 | Dagmar | No, it's fine to ride |
| 03:43.46 | Dagmar | ...when the weather is not Partly Suicidal |
| 03:44.14 | Dagmar | Right now the way it is outside, anything short of a space suit will mean you'll go about 10 miles and then fall over and shatter. |
| 03:44.36 | amro | Shirik: *I* couldn't do anything as I don't have access to any parts, but I'll pass along the advice |
| 03:44.38 | amro | thanks everyone |
| 03:49.23 | airtonix | T_T |
| 03:55.25 | Kraps | havent seen this in a while, so awesome http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-_JhRJ0tWA&feature=channel |
| 03:55.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (~Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:55.33 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 03:57.36 | airtonix | i have goosebumps |
| 03:59.16 | airtonix | Kraps: |
| 03:59.22 | airtonix | i bet you haven't seen this before |
| 03:59.24 | airtonix | http://www.happylander.co.uk/ |
| 03:59.34 | airtonix | ps: beware the cat |
| 04:01.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Ketho (~Ketho@ip565063bd.direct-adsl.nl) |
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| 04:01.49 | Kraps | airtonix: |
| 04:01.54 | Kraps | i dont get it |
| 04:02.10 | kd3 | ooh, ep6 of madoka magica's out |
| 04:02.25 | kd3 | taps his foot waiting for his torrent client to do its thing |
| 04:02.34 | airtonix | loool |
| 04:02.36 | airtonix | kd3 |
| 04:02.52 | kd3 | hm? |
| 04:02.54 | airtonix | i have goosebumps |
| 04:03.09 | Dagmar | F**k yeah beware the cat |
| 04:03.11 | kd3 | go put on some more clothes to warm up |
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| 04:03.42 | Arrowmaster | kd3: you could just goto the right places and get it via xdcc faster |
| 04:04.04 | kd3 | I'm maxing out my downstream whichever way I get it |
| 04:04.08 | kd3 | sighs at crappy dsl |
| 04:04.23 | *** join/#wowuidev mckenziemc1 (~Mark@dialup-4.246.254.240.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net) |
| 04:04.37 | Arrowmaster | i rarely ever max my downstream with public torrents |
| 04:06.46 | Jerub | Arrowmaster: usenet maxes my connection whenever i use it to download. |
| 04:08.30 | kd3 | a screenshot of my dsl modem's web interface: http://images.gammatester.com/pics/c3da2a720e853d78bcbb8d7ece6c163f.png |
| 04:08.59 | kd3 | that's the best my phone line will support. I was paying for faster but wasn't getting it |
| 04:09.02 | Trela | Oh hey, a Zyxel modem. |
| 04:09.04 | kd3 | yup |
| 04:09.21 | Trela | Embarq? |
| 04:09.31 | kd3 | negative |
| 04:09.46 | kd3 | earthlink |
| 04:10.08 | Trela | Lots of Earthlink customers are served through Embarq. X3 |
| 04:10.24 | kd3 | then, probably. I haven't really been paying attention to traceroutes lately |
| 04:10.27 | kd3 | looks |
| 04:10.45 | kd3 | nope. l3 |
| 04:10.47 | Trela | Embarq technicians have a horrible habit of just not provisioning the switches correctly. |
| 04:13.37 | kd3 | amusingly, to connect to a server outside of atlanta I have to go to washington and back |
| 04:13.43 | kd3 | http://wowpedia.pastey.net/145952 |
| 04:14.11 | Arrowmaster | that is rather bad |
| 04:14.19 | Trela | D: |
| 04:14.27 | Arrowmaster | either your isp or curse needs better peering |
| 04:16.47 | Thunder_Child | Fisker: dungeons as good as dungeon keeper? |
| 04:17.37 | Zhinjio | ooo, just saw that today on steam? Anyone played it yet? |
| 04:21.47 | Corrodias | nope, though you can read about it here. http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/dungeons |
| 04:23.25 | Jerub | how much is it on steam? |
| 04:23.45 | Corrodias | 40bux |
| 04:24.05 | airtonix | i am not familiar with that currency, tell me more |
| 04:24.19 | Corrodias | that's internet currency |
| 04:24.35 | airtonix | what's the exchange rate for lolcoins? |
| 04:24.54 | Corrodias | 40bux is four times the amount needed to get an account on somethingawful forums, which is 10bux. or was last i heard, anyway. |
| 04:25.36 | Jerub | i <3 that the AUD reached parity with internet dollars. |
| 04:25.41 | Corrodias | four tens, and that is terrible |
| 04:27.01 | Shirik | ~wiki Tom ton |
| 04:27.12 | Corrodias | well, no point in delaying any longer. time to put this new hard drive in my computer and see if i can save data off the old, failing drive(s). |
| 04:27.17 | Corrodias | more data than i already have |
| 04:27.25 | Shirik | aw that's boring |
| 04:27.33 | Shirik | It actually ended with "He is best known for not knowing." |
| 04:27.37 | Shirik | There is no ... |
| 04:28.06 | Corrodias | that page does not seem to exist |
| 04:28.22 | Shirik | well it doesn't anymore |
| 04:28.26 | Corrodias | makes me sad. |
| 04:33.38 | Kraps | im pro-whatever this girl says http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaUm3L1ROr4 |
| 04:34.01 | Kraps | Shirik: wow an infobox |
| 04:34.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Moootig (~Motig@dhcp-077-249-165-250.chello.nl) |
| 04:36.27 | Kraps | http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/157570/new-changes |
| 04:37.39 | mikma | haste: http://www.geekologie.com/2011/02/guitar_hero_dj_hero_franchises.php |
| 04:39.21 | Adys | Cide, airtonix: ping |
| 04:39.23 | Cide | pong |
| 04:39.25 | Adys | http://dpaste.com/404308/ |
| 04:39.31 | Adys | isn't this correct? |
| 04:39.38 | Adys | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:39.38 | Adys | TypeError: native Qt signal is not callable |
| 04:42.04 | Cide | I don't know qt |
| 04:42.12 | Adys | what use are you |
| 04:42.16 | Cide | none |
| 04:42.40 | airtonix | decorator is fubar |
| 04:45.11 | amro | Shirik: you still around? |
| 04:46.53 | *** join/#wowuidev ShawnMc_ (shawn@69-165-222-95.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 04:50.37 | amro | ~lart Shirik |
| 04:50.37 | purl | cuts Shirik into thin stripes |
| 04:54.20 | Kraps | HI ITS VINCE WITH SHAMWOW |
| 04:54.30 | Corrodias | you're gonna love my nuts |
| 04:55.11 | Kraps | lul |
| 04:55.13 | amro | did I just walk back into 2007? |
| 04:56.17 | Kraps | for some reason totalbiscuits Azeroth Daily vids get shamwow ads |
| 04:58.06 | Adys | hey, Cide |
| 04:58.07 | Adys | http://dpaste.com/404354/ |
| 04:58.09 | Adys | awesome or what? |
| 04:59.13 | Adys | ive heard so many complaints on how python doesn't have any good irc libs and what not |
| 04:59.54 | amro | really? |
| 05:00.09 | Adys | yeah |
| 05:16.29 | Shirik | what amro |
| 05:16.42 | amro | Shirik: ShawnMc_ is the one building the circuit |
| 05:16.49 | Shirik | I'm in a raid |
| 05:16.59 | amro | drop a lightwell |
| 05:17.22 | Shirik | yeah |
| 05:17.32 | Shirik | last time I did that it ended up with me quitting the raid |
| 05:17.45 | amro | people don't click? |
| 05:17.51 | ShawnMc_ | ohai |
| 05:17.52 | Shirik | no it's far more complicated than that |
| 05:20.41 | Jerub | Shirik: people got angry at positioning the lightwell /inside/ the fire? |
| 05:21.09 | amro | you don't have to hump it, it's like 25yd onw |
| 05:22.14 | Kraps | bill gate is going to have a serious hunch |
| 05:22.38 | Jerub | speaking of which, i always appreciate it when someone macros lightwell with something like, "CLICK THE LIGHTWELL YOU BASTARDS" |
| 05:27.23 | airtonix | DISCO POWA!!! |
| 05:27.35 | airtonix | pew pew |
| 05:31.10 | Kraps | http://iddqd.blog.hu/2011/02/09/igy_photoshopoltok_ti |
| 05:33.05 | Corrodias | nice. |
| 05:37.03 | Kraps | also lol @ kmart http://www.mykmart.com/mykmart_blog/Bulletstorm |
| 05:38.11 | Yith | any blog post which directly contradicts Fox News is win in my book |
| 05:40.31 | mckenziemc1 | devises a plot to eradicate sleep |
| 05:50.11 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
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| 06:02.36 | Kraps | this facebook-onstar ad pisses me off |
| 06:03.17 | Adys | http://xkcd.com/859/ |
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| 06:19.44 | airtonix | no |
| 06:22.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Krapsy (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
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| 06:26.24 | Kraps | what was my quit message? |
| 06:26.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Dagmar (1000@c-98-193-180-167.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 06:26.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Dagmar (1000@unaffiliated/dagmar) |
| 06:32.06 | airtonix | there is no quit message |
| 06:32.54 | Kraps | your mom is a quit message airtonix |
| 06:33.05 | *** join/#wowuidev WowBot (WowBot@armory.bot.nu) |
| 06:33.07 | airtonix | what's a mom ? |
| 06:34.30 | Shirik | Cide: ping |
| 06:34.32 | Shirik | urgent ping |
| 06:35.06 | *** join/#wowuidev robokitty (~roboe@50A2E58B.flatrate.dk) |
| 06:36.28 | amro | Shirik: the answer is yes |
| 06:36.51 | amro | or maybe it's a no |
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| 06:36.54 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 06:37.09 | Arrowmaster | this is just fucking rediculious |
| 06:37.28 | amro | as ridiculous as your spelling? :P |
| 06:37.28 | Arrowmaster | also i need my built in spellcheck back in my irc client, i miss it |
| 06:37.37 | Arrowmaster | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4901229/git-creates-files-but-then-strangely-deletes-them-again/4909321#4909321 |
| 06:38.05 | Arrowmaster | guy asked a seriously messed up question and i told him how badly his setup was completely fucked up |
| 06:38.14 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@adsl-226-72-52.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 06:38.40 | airtonix | and he told you to snafu? |
| 06:38.40 | Arrowmaster | and then he removes the entire question and replaces it with the most basic git question, WHICH I ALREADY ANSWERED THE FIRST TIME |
| 06:39.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Olison (olison@fukdruidsgrr.org) |
| 06:39.22 | Arrowmaster | so now i copy and pasted the FAQ entry instead of just linking it |
| 06:39.23 | amro | ~comfort Arrowmaster |
| 06:39.23 | purl | There, there, Arrowmaster. It's OK. I'm here for you. |
| 06:40.14 | bluspacecow | ~fondle Arrowmaster |
| 06:40.27 | airtonix | why did you bother anwering the question of someone who excels in writing in engrish? |
| 06:40.51 | bluspacecow | he was high ? |
| 06:40.57 | airtonix | these people often write things by randomly picking words from google hoping they get their point across |
| 06:41.18 | Arrowmaster | I think when i answered the original question i was trying to get over 200 rep so i would get the free +100 on all SE sites |
| 06:41.22 | airtonix | when they say "Hi how is the weather", they actually mean "You fucking ruined my life" |
| 06:42.33 | Kraps | Arrowmaster: he will speak back |
| 06:42.34 | Arrowmaster | I just wanted the free +100 rep on all sites so I could register on any site and be able to comment anywhere to call people idiots |
| 06:44.08 | Jerub | Arrowmaster: what's your account? i'll go vote you up |
| 06:44.44 | Arrowmaster | http://stackoverflow.com/users/227513/arrowmaster |
| 06:44.52 | Arrowmaster | but i got above 200 already |
| 06:44.52 | Jerub | that'll put you over 400 |
| 06:45.54 | amro | ~Arrowmaster++ |
| 06:46.10 | Arrowmaster | http://serverfault.com/questions/204676/how-can-i-disable-default-t-channel-mode-in-ircd-hybrid/229785#229785 |
| 06:46.22 | Arrowmaster | i got 50 rep on serverfault for saying 'not possible' |
| 06:46.54 | Arrowmaster | s/'not possible'/'not possible, compile from source instead'/ |
| 06:48.09 | amro | I got rep for googling the question and pasting the first result |
| 06:48.27 | amro | at least yours required some thought |
| 06:48.52 | Arrowmaster | you got a bounty for that or just rep for votes/acceptance? |
| 06:49.15 | amro | I think it was just votes, I don't recall any bounties |
| 06:49.45 | Arrowmaster | mine was from a bounty which is why i actually checked to see if it was possible first |
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| 06:56.38 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
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| 07:02.57 | Fisker | slaps Kraps around a bit with a large trout |
| 07:02.57 | Fisker | slaps Arrowmaster around a bit with a large trout |
| 07:02.59 | Fisker | slaps amro around a bit with a large trout |
| 07:05.43 | *** join/#wowuidev jrra (~jrra@c-69-244-139-93.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 07:07.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Taroven (~ezra@74.83.197.157) |
| 07:08.13 | airtonix | slaps Fisker around a bit with a large trout |
| 07:10.12 | DJJeff | slaps Fisker around with nuclear waste |
| 07:10.30 | DJJeff | slaps Fisker around a bit with a 500lb C++ manual |
| 07:10.37 | DJJeff | discovers Fisker's picture at uglypeople.com |
| 07:10.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Guardix-lagtop (~Martin@guest.nat.esnord.dk) |
| 07:11.12 | Fisker | slaps airtonix around a bit with a large trout |
| 07:11.16 | Fisker | slaps DJJeff around a bit with a large trout |
| 07:11.24 | *** join/#wowuidev cbreak_work (~cbreak@drz-wizzer.drz.ethz.ch) |
| 07:13.53 | DJJeff | Fisker use something other then the trout |
| 07:13.55 | DJJeff | you noob |
| 07:14.20 | airtonix | i feel old next to you |
| 07:14.42 | DJJeff | who feels old? |
| 07:15.56 | TMc51 | slaps a large trout around with Fisker. |
| 07:16.52 | airtonix | i'll be in my grandpa chair |
| 07:17.33 | DJJeff | high 5 TMc51 |
| 07:17.56 | Fisker | why would i not use a trout DJJeff ? |
| 07:22.30 | bluspacecow | i stinky |
| 07:22.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Taroven (~ezra@74.83.197.157) |
| 07:22.33 | bluspacecow | i take shower nows |
| 07:24.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Taroven (~ezra@74.83.197.157) |
| 07:25.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 07:29.30 | Fisker | slaps Kraps around a bit with a large trout |
| 07:29.48 | Fisker | so you think you can kill |
| 07:31.39 | *** join/#wowuidev zenzio (~zenzio__@85.19.77.194) |
| 07:37.51 | *** join/#wowuidev greppy (~grephead@lopsa/tech-team/grephead) |
| 07:39.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@wpa-uds168-42.funklan.uni-saarland.de) |
| 07:39.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
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| 07:48.52 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 07:49.20 | bluspacecow | http://us.battle.net:80/wow/en/forum/topic/2065787007?page=1#3 |
| 07:49.29 | bluspacecow | O_O it linkyfied my URL ! |
| 07:49.55 | bluspacecow | i did not mean it to do that ! |
| 07:50.38 | mckenziemc | "Make sense!" |
| 07:53.24 | bluspacecow | look at the post |
| 07:53.36 | bluspacecow | see how the first URL is clickable |
| 07:53.43 | bluspacecow | you not meant to be able to do that |
| 07:53.46 | bluspacecow | i hacked the forums ! |
| 07:55.26 | zenzio | bluspacecow: could be they're doing it since it's linking to their own domain |
| 07:56.44 | bluspacecow | Fisker i am pants less |
| 07:57.43 | bluspacecow | http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2065606651?page=9#175 |
| 07:57.49 | bluspacecow | ^^ you is right zenio |
| 07:57.53 | bluspacecow | zebzio |
| 07:57.59 | bluspacecow | dang typing bad tonight |
| 07:58.04 | zenzio | hehe |
| 07:58.04 | *** join/#wowuidev stew-a (~Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 08:00.26 | airtonix | Fisker: lol bonnie-chan |
| 08:00.42 | airtonix | slaps Fisker around with a boar |
| 08:11.59 | bluspacecow | how many EU PTR forums were there ? |
| 08:12.05 | airtonix | 42 |
| 08:13.21 | amro | airtonix: did you know that 4/2 = 2? and 2*2=4? |
| 08:15.43 | airtonix | did you know that 23 is a scary number |
| 08:16.55 | mckenziemc | fisker is a scary number |
| 08:25.28 | mckenziemc | why is blizzard's macro ui still limited to 255 characters? the underlying system supports up to 1024 (or is it 3) right? |
| 08:25.59 | Iriel | I think it's a characters versus bytes thing |
| 08:26.11 | Iriel | i..e they have enough buffer space for a worst-case |
| 08:26.51 | Elkano | Iriel, were there any news "lately" wrt the item cache? |
| 08:27.09 | Iriel | I haven't asked lately, I should follow up |
| 08:27.19 | Fisker | slaps airtonix around a bit with a large trout |
| 08:27.20 | Fisker | slaps mckenziemc around a bit with a large trout |
| 08:27.21 | Fisker | slaps bluspacecow around a bit with a large trout |
| 08:27.28 | bluspacecow | w oh hai |
| 08:27.29 | bluspacecow | sexy |
| 08:28.10 | Fisker | i'm at work jerk |
| 08:29.50 | Fisker | ahahhahahahahahaahhahahaa |
| 08:29.56 | *** part/#wowuidev keymone (~keymone@p578bb5c6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:30.00 | Fisker | nokia is trying to get back in the business |
| 08:30.03 | Fisker | and they choose WP7 |
| 08:30.04 | Fisker | rofl |
| 08:30.21 | Elkano | Iriel, I would be fine with a simple way to check if the item is in cache without causing a server query and thus a potential throttle/disconnect |
| 08:30.22 | Fisker | that's like taking a trip with the titanic if you had a time machine |
| 08:30.22 | mckenziemc | slaps fisker around a bit with a big purl. |
| 08:30.54 | Elkano | (it's funny to note that even without addons you can cause yourself a throttle) |
| 08:31.17 | haste | man Fisker, spamming IRC while at work is bad! |
| 08:31.20 | haste | *whistle* |
| 08:31.41 | Fisker | don't tell my boss :( |
| 08:32.24 | Iriel | Elkano: I get the disconnect problem from time to time, it's more annoying than funny |
| 08:32.38 | Corrodias | i'm lolling |
| 08:32.43 | Elkano | yeah, and also almost impossible to debug |
| 08:32.54 | zenzio | ""To break the mold, sometimes you have to start over," says Blizzard CEO Mike Morhaime. Apparently the monolithic development firm's next MMO won't be a World of Warcraft sequel, and In fact, the company expects the two titles to co-exist for a number of years." - surely this was to be expected? I can't see Blizzard going "hey guys, forget about WoW, play this instead" |
| 08:33.40 | Elkano | also I don't know if querying to high or known invalid numbers will get you disconnected, too |
| 08:33.49 | karl_w_w | so will it be in the warcraft universe or don't we know? |
| 08:34.15 | Fisker | i was expecting Blizzard to go "Hey guys, forget about WoW, play this instead" |
| 08:34.19 | Fisker | well not exactly |
| 08:34.21 | Elkano | it will be new IP iirc, so neither SC nor WC |
| 08:34.24 | Fisker | but they have to free up serverspace somehow |
| 08:34.24 | Corrodias | StarDiablo Online |
| 08:34.34 | Fisker | rumors on the internets say it's a halo mmo |
| 08:34.36 | zenzio | I have nothing to back up this claim, but I don't see why Blizzard would make aonther MMO in the Warcraft universe |
| 08:34.38 | Fisker | because they share codenames |
| 08:34.48 | Fisker | i just hope it's sci fi'ish |
| 08:34.54 | Fisker | if they pull it off they're awesome |
| 08:35.07 | Corrodias | really? i'm going to start a new rumor, guys. you heard it here first: the new game is a Firefly mmo. |
| 08:35.11 | Arrowmaster | yeah theres a serious lack of good scifi mmos |
| 08:35.21 | karl_w_w | nobody will believe that Corrodias |
| 08:35.28 | Corrodias | fuck, you're right |
| 08:35.51 | Fisker | Corrodias the problem with your rumor is that you have nothing to back it up with Corrodias |
| 08:35.56 | Arrowmaster | making mmos from already popular material is probably the worst idea |
| 08:36.04 | Fisker | wow i forgot i started off with Corrodias |
| 08:36.06 | Arrowmaster | they are nothing but let downs |
| 08:36.06 | zenzio | while it'd never happen, I'd love it if Blizzard picked up the Anarchy Online world/story |
| 08:36.15 | bluspacecow | @fikser .. oh like very other mirror that comes along ? |
| 08:36.19 | bluspacecow | *rumor |
| 08:36.21 | bluspacecow | not mirror |
| 08:36.22 | bluspacecow | fail |
| 08:36.38 | Fisker | huh bluspacecow ? |
| 08:36.51 | bluspacecow | "member:Corrodias the problem with your rumor is that you have nothing to back it up with member:Corrodias" |
| 08:37.03 | bluspacecow | rumors dont usually have much basis in truth :) |
| 08:37.08 | Fisker | member:? |
| 08:37.09 | karl_w_w | blizzard should make a final fantasy mmo, given that square enix can't |
| 08:37.14 | Arrowmaster | zenzio: id rather have something AO like than have something the same as AO, i heard funcom really fucked it up in the later years |
| 08:37.26 | Fisker | i didn't say it was true bluspacecow |
| 08:37.49 | bluspacecow | it copied pasted weridly ! |
| 08:37.58 | zenzio | Arrowmaster: to be specified, I meant AO as the story was at launch. They did do some things since that not everyone agree with |
| 08:38.04 | zenzio | er... specific |
| 08:38.08 | karl_w_w | member:bluspacecow is obviously having some issues |
| 08:38.20 | zenzio | with these typos going, I shouldn't be coding |
| 08:39.05 | Fisker | the point was that Blizzard making a halo mmo is not random made up BS, but Blizzard making a firefly MMO is |
| 08:39.12 | Fisker | Whether any of those is true only remains to be seen |
| 08:39.19 | Fisker | are* |
| 08:39.45 | karl_w_w | why would blizzard make a halo mmo |
| 08:39.57 | karl_w_w | people dont think before going "OMG HALO MMO!" |
| 08:40.11 | Arrowmaster | would suck imho |
| 08:40.45 | bluspacecow | @karl some people have trouble thinking full stop. suprised they know how to get out of bed in the morning |
| 08:41.07 | Fisker | Halo is a popular franchise, so why not? |
| 08:41.45 | Arrowmaster | you need diversity in your classes |
| 08:41.45 | karl_w_w | to start with, because they don't own the rights |
| 08:42.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Eluna (~Eluna@143-32-9.connect.netcom.no) |
| 08:42.30 | Jamash | the idea of blizzard making a halo mmo is at least seven kinds of stupid |
| 08:42.33 | Arrowmaster | if you dont do somethink like AO where they had something similar to spell casting in fantasy games you just end up with crap that plays the same as planetside |
| 08:42.38 | karl_w_w | then there's practical issues, Halo has strong console roots, Blizzard have no experience with consoles |
| 08:43.13 | karl_w_w | so they wouldn't be likely to get the rights because it would mean either a) abandoning the console market or b) given the franchise to an inexperienced company |
| 08:43.22 | Jamash | karl_w_w: what are you talking about, ghost was on consoles </troll> |
| 08:43.27 | karl_w_w | giving*, seems i cant spell either |
| 08:44.28 | Fisker | That the game has console roots doesn't mean that it has to be made for consoles |
| 08:44.41 | karl_w_w | so you really think they'll go with a) ? |
| 08:44.50 | karl_w_w | i guess they dont like money |
| 08:44.50 | Jamash | blizzard making a halo mmo is about a plausible as bungie making wow for consoles |
| 08:45.02 | Fisker | why would blizzard abandon a market they're not in karl_w_w ? |
| 08:45.03 | Jamash | *as |
| 08:45.24 | karl_w_w | Halo is on consoles |
| 08:45.30 | karl_w_w | Blizzard do not own halo |
| 08:45.41 | Fisker | I didn't say they did |
| 08:45.48 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 08:45.49 | Jamash | Fisker: troll harder, you're boring me |
| 08:46.07 | Fisker | i'm not trolling Jamash |
| 08:46.23 | Jamash | Fisker: That's just what a troll would say |
| 08:46.36 | karl_w_w | its not blizzard's decision to make |
| 08:46.51 | Jamash | OTOH karl_w_w seems to be falling for it so who am I to judge? |
| 08:47.06 | Fisker | falling for what? |
| 08:47.10 | Jamash | exactly |
| 08:47.16 | Fisker | Halo MMO is plausible, Firefly MMO is not |
| 08:47.19 | Fisker | that's what i said |
| 08:47.26 | Jamash | neither one is plausible |
| 08:47.30 | Fisker | why not? |
| 08:47.30 | karl_w_w | that is true |
| 08:47.44 | karl_w_w | but if there was going to be a halo mmo, blizzard would not be making it |
| 08:48.25 | Jamash | because blizzard does their own thing |
| 08:48.42 | Jamash | halo and firefly are other companies' things |
| 08:48.56 | karl_w_w | it will probably be something completely new |
| 08:48.58 | Fisker | Warcraft started out as a warhammer game |
| 08:49.06 | Jamash | yeah, in 1994 |
| 08:49.08 | karl_w_w | its not like blizzard are no good at making shit up |
| 08:50.08 | Fisker | There's no actual evidence to support your claim Jamash, other than some anecdotal evidence which turns out to be wrong |
| 08:50.18 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 08:50.28 | Fisker | karl_w_w noone is saying they're not good at making shit up |
| 08:50.44 | karl_w_w | I didnt say anyone was :P |
| 08:50.47 | Arrowmaster | well most of the lore since the first expansion has been mostly just pulled out of their ass |
| 08:51.02 | Jamash | Fisker: wat |
| 08:51.30 | Fisker | Arrowmaster they just have to make Garrosh Hellscream a raid boss |
| 08:51.55 | Jamash | he is already |
| 08:52.03 | Fisker | oh u Jamash |
| 08:54.20 | wereHamster | 'due to suspicious activity your account has been locked' -- wtf??! |
| 08:54.25 | karl_w_w | garrosh is the biggest tool in the game |
| 08:54.27 | Fisker | pwnt wereHamster |
| 08:54.41 | bluspacecow | your far too sexy for the game were |
| 08:54.44 | Fisker | should've thought of that before you logged in from work, school, etc. |
| 08:54.44 | Jamash | wereHamster: are you trying to log in or is that an email? |
| 08:54.47 | bluspacecow | thats the suspiious activitiy |
| 08:54.52 | wereHamster | Jamash: log in |
| 08:54.55 | Jamash | ouch |
| 08:55.05 | Jamash | do you have an authentimacator? |
| 08:55.09 | wereHamster | no |
| 08:55.12 | karl_w_w | do you use a tunnel? |
| 08:55.19 | wereHamster | no |
| 08:55.42 | Jamash | blizzard would save money by just giving an authenticator to everyone who doesn't already have one |
| 08:55.45 | karl_w_w | have you recently slathered yourself in honey and rolled around on the lawn? |
| 08:56.25 | Jamash | anyway good luck getting your account back (and get an authenticator) |
| 08:56.28 | karl_w_w | Jamash: that would royally piss off everybody who paid for one |
| 08:56.56 | Fisker | what doesn't royally piss off <x> that <y> when Blizzard does <z>? |
| 08:57.08 | Jamash | karl_w_w: You would need to use scientific notation to express how little I care about pissing people off when it comes to security |
| 08:57.43 | mitch0 | btw, is the android authenticator free? (or at least very cheap?) |
| 08:57.47 | Fisker | free |
| 08:57.51 | zenzio | free |
| 08:58.00 | karl_w_w | free? |
| 08:58.03 | Fisker | free |
| 08:58.09 | cbreak_work | gpl? |
| 08:58.13 | Fisker | naw |
| 08:58.14 | Jamash | I'd gladly piss everyone off if it meant no longer having my guild's bank raided, losing guild members while investigations occur, etc |
| 08:58.43 | cbreak_work | Jamash: does that happen a lot? somehow my guild bank only rarely gets raided |
| 08:58.50 | cbreak_work | and they only take the old level 60 stuff we have in there |
| 08:59.01 | Jamash | cbreak_work: it doesn't happen a lot, but it does happen |
| 08:59.06 | cbreak_work | not the valuable things only officers can take out, or other actually useful items |
| 08:59.11 | Fisker | those bastards must be stoned |
| 08:59.20 | Fisker | i remember in my old guild |
| 08:59.24 | cbreak_work | I got a few mails by GMs sending me stuff that apparently got stolen from the guild bank |
| 08:59.26 | Fisker | they had this elaborate guild bank setup |
| 08:59.27 | cbreak_work | (I am the GM) |
| 08:59.32 | Fisker | to help with compromises |
| 08:59.32 | cbreak_work | I didn't even knew it happened |
| 08:59.37 | Fisker | then one of the officers got compromised |
| 08:59.46 | Fisker | And they just kept making alts and promoting them until they emptied the whole bank |
| 08:59.47 | Fisker | :D:D |
| 08:59.50 | Jamash | nice |
| 08:59.52 | Jamash | there's really no excuse not to have an authenticator these days |
| 09:00.05 | Jamash | if I was GM I'd require one to access the guild bank at all |
| 09:00.25 | Fisker | i would get the mobile one if i could have some kind of lockscreen widget with it |
| 09:00.40 | cbreak_work | lockscreen widget? |
| 09:00.40 | Fisker | so i got the physical one instead :o |
| 09:00.44 | Fisker | yeah cbreak |
| 09:00.50 | cbreak_work | what's that good for? |
| 09:00.51 | Fisker | so i don't have to unlock my phone to see it :P |
| 09:00.54 | cbreak_work | oh |
| 09:01.02 | mitch0 | fisker: ... |
| 09:01.04 | cbreak_work | because unlocking a phone is so complex... |
| 09:01.09 | Fisker | or technically if we're talking the official app i would need to unlock it, open the app, then see the code |
| 09:01.23 | karl_w_w | wow 3 key presses |
| 09:01.30 | Jamash | I got mine at blizzcon |
| 09:01.41 | Fisker | this is just a little hint for you |
| 09:01.48 | Fisker | with the normal authenticator i use 1 keypress |
| 09:02.00 | Fisker | with the mobile authenticator i would need 3 keypresses and a swiping motion |
| 09:02.08 | Jamash | I wonder how many years the battery is good for on the physical tokens |
| 09:02.10 | karl_w_w | those 2 key presses are saving you some serious arthritis! |
| 09:02.10 | Fisker | 1 keypress is less than 3 keypresses |
| 09:02.11 | Fisker | ok? |
| 09:02.49 | cbreak_work | if it's open source, you could write a key app for your computer |
| 09:02.55 | haste | unlocking my phone is six actions! |
| 09:02.57 | cbreak_work | which auto fills the code when you try to log in |
| 09:02.57 | Fisker | karl_w_w by the time i've gotten to the mobile authenticator code i'm in the game with the physical authenticator |
| 09:03.12 | Jamash | cbreak_work: don't make me come over there and hurt you |
| 09:03.13 | Fisker | i think Adys already did |
| 09:03.35 | *** join/#wowuidev widgertick (~widgertic@unaffiliated/widgertick) |
| 09:03.55 | Jamash | yeah there's an open source version, but you'd have to be stupid to run it in the same OS as wow |
| 09:04.26 | Fisker | i wonder |
| 09:04.44 | Jamash | writes a keylogger that steals your authenticator's entropy pool |
| 09:04.48 | Fisker | i heard about some "leet hackers" using a mobile phone to imitate a keyboard and mouse |
| 09:04.58 | Jamash | via bluetooth? |
| 09:05.04 | Fisker | so you could technically connect it via usb and have it fill in the mobile authenticator code for you |
| 09:05.05 | Fisker | fuck yeah |
| 09:05.07 | Fisker | usb Jamash |
| 09:05.11 | Jamash | interesting |
| 09:05.30 | Fisker | i didn't really get the point since physical access usually means most security goes out the window anyway |
| 09:06.00 | Jamash | or if you get one of those fancy shmancy phones and laptops with near-field communication and tap your phone against your computer to enter the code |
| 09:06.18 | Fisker | http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/Hacking-with-USB-keyboard-emulators-1172612.html |
| 09:06.33 | cbreak_work | maybe you can get your phone to pretend to be a bluetooth keyboard |
| 09:06.44 | cbreak_work | if that's near field enough for you :) |
| 09:07.35 | Jamash | or use vnc to log in over the network and enter the code |
| 09:09.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Monolit (~postid08@89.112.4.92.pppoe.eltel.net) |
| 09:12.45 | zenzio | my memory's shady, but I think jnwhiteh and Adys have their own authenticator app thingamajigs |
| 09:14.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Klrth (~Kalroth@d40aa7d8.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 09:15.56 | *** join/#wowuidev brykryss (~chatzilla@cpc1-craw2-0-0-cust501.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 09:16.19 | airtonix | Jamash: how would you make guild applications prove they have an authenticator |
| 09:16.38 | zenzio | http://verydemotivational.memebase.com/2011/02/10/demotivational-posters-meanwhile-in-canada/ - Cairenn, let's go play hockey |
| 09:16.44 | Jamash | airtonix: it's built into the guild interface now, you can require that rank X and above have one |
| 09:17.02 | Cairenn | zenzio: heh |
| 09:17.27 | zenzio | also, http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/demotivational-posters-untitled5.jpg |
| 09:19.52 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 09:21.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (Vilkku@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe0bfa00-122.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 09:21.42 | greppy | airtonix: another option is to require them to pull out a corehound pup :) |
| 09:23.37 | zenzio | that's a good point |
| 09:26.40 | mckenziemc | jamash: regarding req an authenticator for any rank, you can only set it on one rank :( |
| 09:27.03 | Jamash | I was under the impression that you set a waterline, any rank above that requires the auth, any rank below doesn't |
| 09:27.14 | zenzio | it is a waterline |
| 09:27.16 | mckenziemc | you'd think any higher rank would thus require it since you have to promote one at a time, but no, you can bypass that rakn when promoting |
| 09:27.59 | mckenziemc | well i didn't actually try, but higher ranks show an empty greyed out box for the auth req |
| 09:28.12 | zenzio | wait, you can promote more than one rank at a time? None of my guild masters have done that |
| 09:28.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Disk (~TOAST@75-133-164-229.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) |
| 09:28.16 | Jamash | it's grayed out because you can't *disable* it for a higher rank |
| 09:28.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@fibhost-66-83-191.fibernet.hu) |
| 09:28.34 | Jamash | if the box is empty that's a UI issue |
| 09:28.42 | cbreak_work | no |
| 09:28.43 | mckenziemc | ah |
| 09:28.47 | cbreak_work | it's disabled for a rank that has people in it |
| 09:28.49 | mckenziemc | i'll check it just to be sure |
| 09:28.59 | cbreak_work | you can enable it for ranks with no people in them |
| 09:29.10 | mckenziemc | nono |
| 09:29.12 | cbreak_work | I don't think it requires higher ranks to already have it |
| 09:29.35 | mckenziemc | if you can bypass it for someone with no authenticator, that means that the requirement -only- applies to that one rank |
| 09:29.54 | DJJeff | http://www.wowbash.com/image-18123.html |
| 09:29.56 | DJJeff | WIN |
| 09:29.58 | DJJeff | FUCKING |
| 09:30.00 | DJJeff | WIN |
| 09:30.32 | Jamash | O_o |
| 09:33.49 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 09:34.23 | zenzio | http://www.wowbash.com/images/1296346116.jpg hehe |
| 09:34.27 | mckenziemc | zenzio: yes, but only to skip a rank requiring an authenticator when the person doesn't have one |
| 09:34.45 | zenzio | mckenziemc: hm, interesting |
| 09:35.27 | mckenziemc | the ui shows an up arrow and clicking it opens a dialog saying something to the effect of "you can't promote him to x rank because he needs an authenticator, would you like to promote him to y rank instead?" |
| 09:35.32 | cbreak_work | mckenziemc: or you could reorder ranks. |
| 09:35.46 | mckenziemc | wouldn't work |
| 09:35.48 | cbreak_work | hmm... maybe only empty ranks... not sure |
| 09:37.18 | mckenziemc | i'm guessing/hoping blizz only allowed one rank to have it as a temporary measure |
| 09:38.07 | mckenziemc | to see how much it gets used i guess. actually, allowing multiple ranks with authenticators -might- cause issues, i haven't thought about it though |
| 09:39.20 | Jamash | they must have changed things around recently |
| 09:39.20 | zenzio | if it isn't already possibly to give multiple ranks an authenticator requirement, then I think it should be made possible. It seems pointless otherwise |
| 09:42.19 | mckenziemc | yeah |
| 09:48.24 | *** join/#wowuidev keymone (~keymone@p578bb5c6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:48.29 | mckenziemc | @proect gathermate |
| 09:48.47 | mckenziemc | @project gathermate |
| 09:48.48 | Repo | mckenziemc: http://www.wowace.com/addons/gathermate/. GatherMate. Game: WoW. kagaro (Manager/Author), Nevcairiel (Author), Xinhuan (Author). Updated: 92 days ago. Tickets: 8/59 |
| 09:49.02 | mckenziemc | @project gathermate2_data |
| 09:49.03 | Repo | mckenziemc: http://www.wowace.com/addons/gathermate2_data/. GatherMate2_Data. Game: WoW. kagaro (Manager/Author). Updated: 5 days ago |
| 09:52.55 | nebula169 | you can have multiple ranks with auth |
| 09:53.03 | nebula169 | you just can't add the option when anyone is in the rank |
| 09:53.51 | wereHamster | I *love* battle.net. The password recovery email was delayed due to graylisting and now the recovery token has expired. |
| 09:54.37 | nebula169 | how is that battle.net's fault? |
| 09:55.04 | wereHamster | they locked my account.. I blame them |
| 09:55.33 | Jamash | you've never gotten an email from battle.net before? |
| 09:58.04 | Jamash | also you should blame your email provider for using greylisting |
| 10:00.03 | mckenziemc | ~wiki greylisting |
| 10:02.25 | mckenziemc | i was mistaken, you -can- require an authenticator on multiple ranks |
| 10:02.36 | mckenziemc | don't know why i thought otherwise though : / |
| 10:03.14 | *** join/#wowuidev mojosdojo- (~mojosdojo@p4FE6399B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:04.40 | *** join/#wowuidev mckenziemc1 (~Mark@dialup-4.246.249.114.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net) |
| 10:05.45 | zenzio | mckenziemc: probably some confusion about when you can/can't toggle the setting... I wouldn't call it entirely intuitive |
| 10:06.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan (~pancake@cpe-024-163-016-179.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 10:10.31 | mckenziemc | i'm glad Fisker mentioned his experience with the guild bank being emptied though, i would not have thought to secure mine against that kind of thing |
| 10:13.22 | mckenziemc | my officers thought some money had disappeared from the guild bank at one point; iirc initiates were able to withdraw 5g/day at that point so that may be what happened |
| 10:16.55 | Disk | Meanwhile, here I am, recovering from my first account hacking |
| 10:17.07 | airtonix | looool |
| 10:17.19 | airtonix | well done |
| 10:17.24 | Disk | But linux users are supposed to be secure! |
| 10:17.26 | Disk | whacked |
| 10:17.32 | airtonix | not if you're retarded |
| 10:19.06 | Disk | Well, I've learned two things from the ordeal |
| 10:19.17 | Disk | One, gmail can be hard to recover from |
| 10:19.31 | Disk | Two, change your wow password BEFORE ticketing |
| 10:22.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Esamynn|Away (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Esamynn) |
| 10:22.41 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Esamynn|Away] by ChanServ |
| 10:27.34 | cbreak_work | Disk: gmail? |
| 10:27.42 | cbreak_work | you lost control about your e-mail account? |
| 10:28.01 | cbreak_work | that sucks, every braindead web page can do account password resets via e-mail :/ |
| 10:41.59 | *** join/#wowuidev isman (~drag@mna75-2-82-67-196-34.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 10:46.25 | Fisker | gentlemen |
| 10:54.40 | mckenziemc | ladies, gentlemen, children, and fiskers |
| 10:55.11 | karl_w_w | why do people use hosting sites with 90 second waiting times when there are plenty of sites with 10 second waiting times? |
| 10:55.28 | Fisker | because karl_w_w |
| 10:55.29 | Fisker | jerk |
| 10:55.40 | karl_w_w | meanie :( |
| 10:55.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@fibhost-66-83-191.fibernet.hu) |
| 10:55.59 | Fisker | why don't people just use torrents? |
| 10:56.03 | Fisker | 0 second waiting times there |
| 10:56.35 | karl_w_w | because not everything can be got from torrent land |
| 10:57.25 | Fisker | it could if you started using torrents instead of shitty hosting sites |
| 10:57.43 | karl_w_w | im not the one uploading, silly Fisker |
| 10:57.54 | cbreak_work | karl_w_w: hosting sites? |
| 10:58.12 | karl_w_w | like rapidshare, 4shared |
| 10:58.15 | karl_w_w | that sort of thing |
| 10:58.20 | cbreak_work | I heard that people who upload on those get some cut of the add revenue for each download |
| 10:58.26 | cbreak_work | you don't get that for bit torrents |
| 10:59.13 | Fisker | as far as i know the "cut" is usually just extra "premium" |
| 10:59.22 | Fisker | which you don't need for torrents |
| 10:59.43 | zenzio | I remember when people first started talking about BitTorrent, and were trying to explain it to me. "You send and receive bits of files". I kept wondering "what was wrong with sending bytes?" |
| 10:59.44 | karl_w_w | 54 mb download that extracts to 1.1 gb |
| 10:59.49 | karl_w_w | that's pretty impressive |
| 10:59.52 | Fisker | not really |
| 10:59.57 | cbreak_work | karl_w_w: boost::? :) |
| 10:59.57 | zenzio | was a bit of an "oh, uh... *doh*" moment when I realised they meant pieces |
| 11:00.00 | karl_w_w | i said it is, it is |
| 11:00.10 | Fisker | i once had a <1KB download that extracts to 2TB |
| 11:00.21 | karl_w_w | boost? |
| 11:00.26 | Fisker | also had one that extracts to infinite space |
| 11:00.27 | zenzio | C++ framework |
| 11:00.29 | cbreak_work | http://www.boost.org/ |
| 11:00.50 | cbreak_work | it's probably thousands of highly compressable C++ header only libraries :) |
| 11:00.50 | zenzio | if something compresses that well, it's likely mostly text; so source code's a good guess |
| 11:01.02 | Fisker | someone should make a hosting site that works on bittorrent |
| 11:01.09 | cbreak_work | and once you compile it (for windows), it'll take up many gigabytes |
| 11:01.12 | karl_w_w | ah, because one of the files is an empty 1gb image |
| 11:01.15 | cbreak_work | (with all the different versions) |
| 11:01.22 | Fisker | claps at karl_w_w |
| 11:01.38 | karl_w_w | throws mashed swede at Fisker |
| 11:01.46 | Fisker | compression works wonders when you know what's coming |
| 11:01.55 | zenzio | if empty means zeroed, that'll compress well too |
| 11:02.14 | Fisker | i remember someone made a recursive rar archive |
| 11:02.29 | Fisker | technically speaking it contained infinite data :O |
| 11:04.06 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (ca312226@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.49.34.38) |
| 11:04.06 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 11:04.10 | Fisker | slaps bluspacecow around a bit with a large trout |
| 11:04.14 | bluspacecow | Fiksery fisker |
| 11:04.15 | mitch0 | fisker: no, it didn't |
| 11:04.19 | bluspacecow | is you still @ work ? |
| 11:04.56 | *** join/#wowuidev BWMerlin (~chatzilla@CPE-60-226-105-114.qld.bigpond.net.au) |
| 11:05.22 | Fisker | of course |
| 11:05.33 | Fisker | mitch0 i had sex with your mother |
| 11:05.51 | mitch0 | I doubt it |
| 11:06.17 | zenzio | Fisker doesn't work, he's a full time troll |
| 11:06.21 | bluspacecow | kk |
| 11:06.29 | bluspacecow | i won't share my link about porn |
| 11:06.34 | Fisker | :( |
| 11:07.28 | Fisker | above all i need a tablet so i can troll on the move |
| 11:08.49 | mitch0 | next time you'll be bragging about your new iPhone |
| 11:09.04 | mitch0 | and how wonderful that tea you bought fro $100 is |
| 11:09.16 | mitch0 | s,fro,for, |
| 11:09.38 | Fisker | wat |
| 11:09.46 | Fisker | I'm afraid that, as of 4.0.6, removing the Faded Wizard Hat will also remove the buff. This is an intentional change and was necessary in order to fix another issue involving characters that faction change. |
| 11:09.49 | Fisker | i want to know moar |
| 11:09.50 | Fisker | MOOAR |
| 11:09.59 | Fisker | haha mitch0 |
| 11:10.00 | Fisker | iphone |
| 11:10.02 | Fisker | lol'd |
| 11:10.02 | mckenziemc | are there any addons for searching my character's inbox and showing me which package(s) contain the item i want? |
| 11:10.19 | mitch0 | check postal |
| 11:10.22 | bluspacecow | not as far as i know |
| 11:10.28 | mitch0 | dunno if it does that though ;) |
| 11:10.29 | mckenziemc | i use postal |
| 11:10.32 | mckenziemc | does it have a search? |
| 11:10.33 | mckenziemc | ah |
| 11:10.35 | bluspacecow | but i will send you a number of packages with useless crap in them to test :D |
| 11:10.43 | mckenziemc | rofl |
| 11:12.05 | Fisker | slaps bluspacecow around a bit with a large trout |
| 11:12.27 | karl_w_w | anyway, to go back in time: Jamash: if it's cheaper for them for more people to get an authenticator, why are they charging for the mobile phone version? |
| 11:12.58 | Fisker | they're only charging for the non-android/iphone one |
| 11:13.07 | Fisker | and i believe that's because they contracted a 3rd party to handle it |
| 11:13.51 | mckenziemc | Fisker. |
| 11:13.59 | Fisker | i don't think Blizzard should give us free authenticators though |
| 11:14.00 | mckenziemc | i contracted an std from your mom :( |
| 11:14.11 | zenzio | karl_w_w: which mobile version? Nokia and such? |
| 11:14.14 | Fisker | they should give us free motorola atrix 4g's with the mobile authenticator on it |
| 11:14.52 | karl_w_w | yeah zenzio, the java version |
| 11:15.10 | mitch0 | btw, anyone got Motorola Defy or whatsitsname? |
| 11:15.14 | mitch0 | is it any good? |
| 11:15.44 | zenzio | karl_w_w: I'm somewhat curious about that myself; can only guess there is some cost they "have to" cover somewhere for that one |
| 11:16.54 | karl_w_w | dont see why they cant just take it as a saving on customer support costs |
| 11:17.19 | Fisker | they probably don't want people abusing the service |
| 11:17.23 | zenzio | that's why I'm curious :) |
| 11:17.30 | karl_w_w | how can u possibly abuse it |
| 11:17.40 | Fisker | By downloading it repeatedly |
| 11:17.57 | Fisker | it costs them money to send it to you |
| 11:18.05 | karl_w_w | yeah a little java app is the biggest of their bandwidth concerns |
| 11:18.06 | mckenziemc | (3:06:30 AM) bluspacecow: i won't share my link about porn |
| 11:18.06 | mckenziemc | ^ please do |
| 11:18.18 | karl_w_w | you can download the client as many times as you want |
| 11:18.53 | Fisker | i wasn't talking about bandwitdh |
| 11:19.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (~Kandoko@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 11:19.34 | karl_w_w | so what were you talking about |
| 11:19.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraftman (~Kraftman@cpc1-bath4-0-0-cust95.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 11:19.45 | Fisker | I'm quite sure that it's either because they're handled by a 3rd party or because they have to limit abuse |
| 11:20.13 | Fisker | it costs them money to send the text to instruct you how to download it |
| 11:20.32 | bluspacecow | http://nedhardy.com/2010/10/11/2â1-hilarious-examples-of-unintentiâonal-porn/ |
| 11:20.39 | bluspacecow | nsfw obviously |
| 11:20.46 | Fisker | 404'd |
| 11:20.47 | karl_w_w | they only send you the text to download it because they are charging you |
| 11:21.05 | karl_w_w | if it was just a simple download there would be no need |
| 11:21.21 | Fisker | I totally agree they should just put the .jar up for download |
| 11:25.51 | bluspacecow | http://nedhardy.com/2010/10/11/21-hilarious-examples-of-unintentional-porn/ |
| 11:31.08 | zenzio | that "Betty and Me" one is classic... so many old cartoons have phrases that today mean... well, something else |
| 11:32.54 | karl_w_w | beat off still means the same thing |
| 11:33.27 | zenzio | not unless they are sadists |
| 11:34.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Sliker (~ponies@111.13.112.87.dyn.plus.net) |
| 12:00.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@68.64.47.56) |
| 12:09.04 | *** join/#wowuidev greppy (~grephead@lopsa/tech-team/grephead) |
| 12:09.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Wicet2 (~wicet@a88-112-120-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 12:19.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Computerpunk_ (~Computerp@85.186.122.45) |
| 12:30.01 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 12:30.47 | *** join/#wowuidev solo|work (solowork@c-69-245-130-138.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 12:34.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Esamynn|Away (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Esamynn) |
| 12:34.22 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Esamynn|Away] by ChanServ |
| 12:38.09 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 12:54.23 | airtonix | what otp protocol do blizzard use ? |
| 12:58.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Therzok__ (~Computerp@85.186.122.45) |
| 13:06.23 | *** join/#wowuidev mckenziemc1 (~Mark@dialup-4.246.249.114.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net) |
| 13:06.53 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (ca312226@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.49.34.38) |
| 13:06.53 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 13:12.35 | bluspacecow | fisker. |
| 13:12.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Lulia (~BleaS@pool-173-76-192-176.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 13:17.33 | Fisker | slaps bluspacecow around a bit with a large trout |
| 13:19.24 | bluspacecow | :) |
| 13:19.31 | bluspacecow | i is hungry fisker |
| 13:19.33 | bluspacecow | feed me |
| 13:22.15 | Fisker | i is hungry too |
| 13:25.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Proditor (~Proditor@c80-217-50-30.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 13:28.31 | bluspacecow | i has sammich ! |
| 13:31.50 | mitch0 | I has just eaten |
| 13:32.35 | Dagmar | Wow. I just got an email from Sony telling me they've turned my EverQuest acount back on |
| 13:32.38 | Dagmar | "Are you ready to relive the greatest memories that you.ve ever had in EverQuest?" |
| 13:33.11 | mitch0 | dagmar: is EQ free now? |
| 13:33.41 | Dagmar | 1. I'm pretty sure they don't want me doing that to their servers again, and 2. I should probably file a suit with some international court or other |
| 13:33.53 | Dagmar | mitch0: You couldn't fucking pay me to play it |
| 13:34.46 | mitch0 | yeah, well, they reactivated SWG back when it was still for-pay, so I wouldn't be surprised ;) |
| 13:34.59 | zenzio | Cairenn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1vpB6h3ek4&feature=youtu.be |
| 13:35.01 | mitch0 | when I quit, I changed my CC details to something b0rked |
| 13:35.28 | Cairenn | very cool |
| 13:36.01 | Dagmar | They've got some free event going on, but it feels a little like getting an email telling you that for the next two weeks they're giving away free wedgies and swirlies at your old high school |
| 13:36.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (~Lopeppepp@141.222.30.166) |
| 13:36.54 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 13:37.02 | zenzio | snuggles Lopeppeppy |
| 13:37.09 | Cairenn | smoogles Lopeppeppy |
| 13:37.26 | Lopeppeppy | Ooooh. |
| 13:37.31 | Lopeppeppy | snorgles up to Cairenn. |
| 13:37.52 | bluspacecow | snorgle ? |
| 13:38.05 | Lopeppeppy | A format of snuggling that is super-special. |
| 13:38.14 | Cairenn | :) |
| 13:38.26 | bluspacecow | http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2259389#blog |
| 13:38.40 | bluspacecow | i wants snorgles too |
| 13:38.48 | bluspacecow | *snorgles Fisker* |
| 13:39.05 | Lopeppeppy | Has Fisker showered today? |
| 13:39.41 | bluspacecow | good point |
| 13:39.51 | bluspacecow | *gets out fire hose* |
| 13:40.41 | Fisker | http://www.weather.com/weather/today/Aalborg+Denmark+DAXX0002 <-find out yourself |
| 13:40.46 | greppy | wouldn't it be safer to use HCL? |
| 13:41.54 | *** join/#wowuidev SinusPi (sinus@178-36-43-161.adsl.inetia.pl) |
| 13:44.29 | Lopeppeppy | Cairenn showers lots and lots, and always smells nice for snorgles. How often do you shower, oh Blu? |
| 13:44.46 | Cairenn | smoogles Lopeppeppy lots more |
| 13:46.53 | bluspacecow | every day ! |
| 13:46.57 | bluspacecow | and twice on gym days ! |
| 13:47.04 | airtonix | riiighhhhttt |
| 13:47.34 | Lopeppeppy | Hmph. Well, you may be eligible for snorgling in the future, but girl-snorgles always win when they are available. I shall put you in the queue. |
| 13:47.56 | Cairenn | sing it, sister! |
| 13:47.56 | airtonix | theres an old brahmen saying "only the untouchables shower" |
| 13:48.11 | mckenziemc1 | greets Cairenn, without any keyboard quips! |
| 13:48.23 | Cairenn | chuckles |
| 13:48.23 | airtonix | oh wait |
| 13:48.29 | Lopeppeppy | What is the uncouth phrase, "Chicks before..." |
| 13:48.38 | airtonix | no |
| 13:48.48 | airtonix | i deny you |
| 13:48.51 | bluspacecow | in fact |
| 13:49.00 | bluspacecow | imma abadon my work station |
| 13:49.07 | bluspacecow | imma go take shower just for you Loppy |
| 13:49.20 | Lopeppeppy | Awwww. *shy grin* |
| 13:49.40 | *** join/#wowuidev SinusPi (sinus@178-36-43-161.adsl.inetia.pl) |
| 13:59.35 | *** join/#wowuidev mono|strigoy (~postid08@89.112.4.92.pppoe.eltel.net) |
| 14:01.05 | Kraps | Fisker: why would you slap me when i'm sleeping |
| 14:01.21 | mckenziemc | slaps Kraps around a bit with Fisker |
| 14:02.14 | foxlit | It's cute how they added wasps to Uldum |
| 14:04.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Slackwise (~slackwise@c-24-14-146-100.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 14:05.15 | *** join/#wowuidev SinusPi (sinus@178-36-43-161.adsl.inetia.pl) |
| 14:06.22 | Kraps | Justin Bieber: Never Say Never is at 64% |
| 14:06.56 | Lopeppeppy | 64% of what? |
| 14:07.33 | Kraps | approval by critics |
| 14:07.48 | Lopeppeppy | Eeew. |
| 14:07.57 | Lopeppeppy | Okay, well, there must be some teenaged critics out there. |
| 14:08.11 | amro | Kraps: for a second I thought you were downloading it |
| 14:09.40 | Kraps | and what if i was? *huff* |
| 14:10.00 | Lopeppeppy | I'd send you some tranquilizers. |
| 14:10.22 | Kraps | heh |
| 14:11.34 | foxlit | did they fix resource phasing yet? |
| 14:12.52 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (ca312226@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.49.34.38) |
| 14:12.52 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 14:13.59 | *** join/#wowuidev SinusPi (sinus@178-36-43-161.adsl.inetia.pl) |
| 14:13.59 | bluspacecow | http://alturl.com/nzra2 <-- this is the captcha i got for the freenode webchat |
| 14:14.43 | Kraps | inception is the lowest rates best picture nominee this year :( |
| 14:17.49 | Lopeppeppy | What the HECK is that second thing and how would I type that? |
| 14:18.08 | foxlit | no :*( |
| 14:19.23 | Lopeppeppy | I guess you have to have geek cred to know the keystrokes for those symbols. :) |
| 14:20.47 | foxlit | I believe you only have to get one word right |
| 14:23.24 | airtonix | yeah |
| 14:23.34 | *** join/#wowuidev SinusPi (sinus@178-36-43-161.adsl.inetia.pl) |
| 14:23.40 | airtonix | the obviously legible one |
| 14:23.52 | airtonix | (that everyone should be able to type) |
| 14:23.59 | Fisker | hey bluspacecow |
| 14:24.03 | airtonix | hey Fisker |
| 14:24.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Cide@s213-103-219-177.cust.tele2.se) |
| 14:24.08 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 14:24.13 | mono|strigoy | uhm, how can I retrive the spellid in game? Wowhead is useless when it comes to identifying proc's spellid :S |
| 14:24.29 | mono|strigoy | like for example chain lightning mastery proc |
| 14:24.36 | airtonix | Cide: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060315/ |
| 14:24.49 | airtonix | that movie is so awesome |
| 14:25.50 | Kraps | "coffin-dragging gunslinger" |
| 14:26.08 | airtonix | yeaboi |
| 14:26.27 | airtonix | this guy is the template for all anime alpha males |
| 14:26.35 | Fisker | hey airtonix |
| 14:26.37 | airtonix | impossible odds |
| 14:27.42 | airtonix | i can't remember, but i think this movie had something to do with either russia, or czech republic |
| 14:28.01 | Fisker | hey airtonix |
| 14:28.20 | airtonix | put Fisker in a coffin |
| 14:28.32 | karl_w_w | 3 cheers for pcsx2 |
| 14:28.36 | karl_w_w | hip hip |
| 14:28.40 | karl_w_w | who's with me? |
| 14:28.47 | airtonix | Fisker was |
| 14:28.57 | Thunder_Child | i am |
| 14:28.59 | Thunder_Child | not with you |
| 14:29.01 | Fisker | pcsx2? |
| 14:29.07 | karl_w_w | ps2 emu |
| 14:29.09 | Zyn- | Django eh .. doesn't sound much different from "Sukiyaki Western Django" , which is weird by itself |
| 14:29.16 | Fisker | i wouldn't give a shit karl_w_w |
| 14:29.20 | foxlit | 3 or not interested. |
| 14:29.32 | airtonix | also |
| 14:29.34 | airtonix | old |
| 14:29.45 | airtonix | welcome to ? 2002 ? |
| 14:30.04 | *** join/#wowuidev nobgul-iPads (~nonviolen@ool-43557559.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 14:30.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Nobgul (~none@ool-43557559.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 14:30.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Nobgul (~none@unaffiliated/nobgul) |
| 14:30.18 | Kraps | hotfixes http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2259389 |
| 14:30.18 | karl_w_w | but when you're emulating games at a res of 2732 x 1536 they dont look old :P |
| 14:30.44 | Thunder_Child | just bad |
| 14:31.00 | nobgul-iPads | Lol |
| 14:31.15 | Fisker | die nobgul-iPads die |
| 14:31.28 | nobgul-ipad | No |
| 14:31.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Guardix (~Martin@0x5da165ee.hinqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 14:31.44 | Fisker | yes |
| 14:31.47 | Fisker | you are the nobgul-ipad |
| 14:31.48 | karl_w_w | nobgul-sanitarytowel |
| 14:32.06 | nobgul-ipad | Eww |
| 14:32.15 | nobgul-ipad | Not nice |
| 14:32.17 | Thunder_Child | nobgul-appledesigned(tm)sanitarynapkin |
| 14:32.28 | airtonix | so awesome |
| 14:32.34 | airtonix | i don't play wow anymore |
| 14:32.40 | nobgul-ipad | This thing is pretty nice |
| 14:32.47 | airtonix | i'd be raging at the timing of this hotfix |
| 14:33.01 | karl_w_w | roar? |
| 14:33.11 | airtonix | instead |
| 14:33.12 | nobgul-ipad | Nerd rage? |
| 14:33.13 | foxlit | which hotfix, anyway? |
| 14:33.14 | Kraps | airtonix: why |
| 14:34.08 | airtonix | i'd hate to be someone who went hotfix lol can't login |
| 14:34.20 | airtonix | instead, i got to sleep |
| 14:34.36 | karl_w_w | The Quad Core buff provided by the Sanctified Bloodmage 4-piece set bonus is now properly removed as soon as a spell is cast if the mage does not have 4 pieces of the set equipped. <- lol, so people were equipping their 4 piece and popping images before the start of fights? |
| 14:35.03 | karl_w_w | if only I had thought of that |
| 14:35.10 | airtonix | but you didn't |
| 14:35.14 | karl_w_w | cos im bad |
| 14:35.18 | airtonix | right |
| 14:35.22 | karl_w_w | and sharded all my stuff at level 83 |
| 14:35.30 | airtonix | so utterly disapoint |
| 14:35.31 | karl_w_w | except my halion staff |
| 14:35.59 | Fisker | yes karl_w_w |
| 14:36.00 | Fisker | old |
| 14:36.34 | karl_w_w | questionmark? |
| 14:37.38 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar_work (~sylvanaar@tut.qvssoftware.com) |
| 14:38.05 | mckenziemc | sylvanaar_workmark |
| 14:38.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Cairenn1 (~Cairenn@CPE00235435c2a1-CM0012c9213c9c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 14:38.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Thaoky (Thaoky@81.66-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 14:39.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Cairenn (~Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 14:39.05 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 14:39.17 | mckenziemc | spam :( |
| 14:40.02 | Kraps | http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/02/11/mass-effect-2-red-dead-redemption-dominate-14th-annual-interactive-achievement-awards.aspx |
| 14:40.09 | Fisker | LOL |
| 14:40.10 | Fisker | LOL |
| 14:40.12 | Fisker | LOLOLOLOL |
| 14:40.22 | Fisker | "give me more info!!! i aint got money for a keylogger plz tell me what to change so i can save my account!" |
| 14:40.40 | Kraps | link Fisker |
| 14:40.53 | Fisker | http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1701761575#6 |
| 14:44.23 | solo|work | LOL |
| 14:45.24 | mckenziemc | >.> |
| 14:45.34 | Kraps | making fun of such people is not nice :( |
| 14:45.47 | mckenziemc | lies kraps |
| 14:46.29 | airtonix | so adys |
| 14:46.41 | airtonix | future of qt just looked uncertain as of 5hrs ago |
| 14:46.50 | airtonix | http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/nokia-developer-news/2011/02/11/letter-to-developers |
| 14:47.57 | Fisker | nokia is going to burn |
| 14:47.59 | Fisker | BUUUUUUUUUURN |
| 14:50.37 | Fisker | get it airtonix |
| 14:50.38 | Fisker | ? |
| 14:52.45 | foxlit | http://www.wowhead.com/blog=181657/new-feature-wowhead-website-achievements << stackoverflow says "Hi!" |
| 14:52.46 | airtonix | no |
| 14:52.50 | airtonix | My thanks to Nokia for releasing Qt under the LGPL. This means Nokia and its poor choices are ultimately irrelevant for Qt. |
| 14:52.57 | airtonix | :) |
| 14:53.35 | Fisker | why would anyone overflow a stack foxlit ? |
| 14:53.38 | airtonix | and lol@nokiashares |
| 14:54.35 | mckenziemc | ~wiki stackoverflow |
| 14:55.01 | mckenziemc | (that's for myself fisker, i've heard of the site but never checked it out) |
| 14:55.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen (~Kevin@149-169-148-247.nat.asu.edu) |
| 14:56.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Warloco (~theunknow@abarelds.xs4all.nl) |
| 14:57.47 | foxlit | heh. |
| 14:57.53 | foxlit | 2 extra flasks in a batch of 20 |
| 14:58.00 | mckenziemc | ouch |
| 15:01.19 | *** join/#wowuidev ZorbaBeta (tocohl@maximilian.pavlovian.net) |
| 15:01.34 | *** join/#wowuidev TC-Away (~Thunder_C@99-50-83-113.lightspeed.lsanca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 15:01.34 | *** join/#wowuidev TC-Away (~Thunder_C@WoWUIDev/PITA/TC) |
| 15:01.58 | TC-Away | Fisker: how is Dungeons? |
| 15:03.45 | *** join/#wowuidev TC-Away (~Thunder_C@WoWUIDev/PITA/TC) |
| 15:04.31 | Thunder_Child | ~ping |
| 15:04.31 | purl | ~pong |
| 15:05.21 | *** join/#wowuidev TC-Away (~Thunder_C@99-50-83-113.lightspeed.lsanca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 15:05.21 | *** join/#wowuidev TC-Away (~Thunder_C@WoWUIDev/PITA/TC) |
| 15:05.29 | mckenziemc | lol WoWUIDev/PITA |
| 15:05.37 | Kraps | Thunder_Child: http://store.steampowered.com/app/48160/ |
| 15:05.47 | *** join/#wowuidev nobgul-iPads (~nonviolen@ool-43557559.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 15:06.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Thunder_Child (~Thunder_C@99-50-83-113.lightspeed.lsanca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 15:06.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Thunder_Child (~Thunder_C@WoWUIDev/PITA/TC) |
| 15:06.52 | Thunder_Child | Kraps: no joystick. |
| 15:09.04 | karl_w_w | oh dear god |
| 15:09.23 | karl_w_w | why would nokia let microsoft do that! |
| 15:10.01 | Fisker | nokia is anyones bitch karl_w_w |
| 15:10.09 | Fisker | can't afford anything else |
| 18:29.04 | *** join/#wowuidev purl (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 18:29.04 | *** topic/#wowuidev is http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ || 4.0.x ToC: 40000 || #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting || BC 2011 Announced! http://bit.ly/hlEtVv |
| 18:29.10 | Adys | hai purl |
| 18:29.16 | cog|work | ~botsnack |
| 18:29.16 | purl | cog|work: thanks |
| 18:32.15 | Adys | ~wowiquotes |
| 18:32.15 | purl | http://www.teomyr.eu/wowuidev/irc-quotes |
| 18:32.38 | Teomyr | yeah i know |
| 18:33.02 | Cide | wowiquotes in python? |
| 18:33.22 | Adys | Cide: yes |
| 18:33.27 | Cide | EXCELLENT |
| 18:33.38 | Adys | Cide: https://github.com/Adys/django-ircquotes |
| 18:34.09 | jnwhiteh | If you look at this figure: http://images.gammatester.com/pics/0d06c5e437e06e66af77540275f31b6d.png do you have any particular criticism other than not having any context to quite understand what is happening? |
| 18:34.56 | SinusPi | W and R are not explained |
| 18:34.56 | Adys | jnwhiteh: there are arrows leading into an empty space |
| 18:34.58 | Adys | I DISLIKE IT |
| 18:35.24 | SinusPi | also, left and right panes are not labeled |
| 18:35.58 | Adys | and why are there multiple references of W/R |
| 18:35.59 | jnwhiteh | SinusPi: they're explained in the accompanying text |
| 18:36.00 | Adys | CONFUSING |
| 18:36.06 | Cide | write/read? |
| 18:36.12 | SinusPi | ah-ha, so there IS accompanying text. |
| 18:36.20 | Adys | Ahhh HAAA! |
| 18:36.26 | Kraps | http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/cd12846553/bieber-takes-over |
| 18:36.31 | jnwhiteh | i may be screwed anyway. |
| 18:36.42 | jnwhiteh | I need an extra set of W's under the compression components |
| 18:36.46 | jnwhiteh | and i'm not sure how to do that in graphviz. |
| 18:36.47 | jnwhiteh | ponders |
| 18:38.29 | Lopeppeppy | putters |
| 18:41.36 | Adys | pesters |
| 18:42.28 | *** join/#wowuidev mascondante (~kvirc@pool-72-71-103-118.atl01.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 18:42.45 | Kraps | parrots |
| 18:46.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen (~Kevin@149-149-169-153-200.nat.asu.edu) |
| 18:47.05 | cog|work | pickles |
| 18:49.58 | Lopeppeppy | spackles! |
| 18:50.05 | Kraps | "The title The Exalted is now awarded for earning exalted reputation with 50 factions, up from 40." |
| 18:50.11 | Cide | c-c-c-combo breaker |
| 18:50.26 | Kraps | so this is what everyone is QQing about? |
| 18:50.31 | Cide | yes |
| 18:51.08 | nevcairiel | They should stop QQing and get reputation farming |
| 18:51.59 | Kraps | its serious qq, like they would have removed the tilte |
| 18:52.10 | Kraps | people are stupid |
| 18:52.15 | Ackis | they did remove the title |
| 18:52.21 | Ackis | if you have 40 reps and the title, you lost it |
| 18:52.21 | Adys | i had the 50 factions before they upgraded the title to 45 |
| 18:52.27 | Ackis | that's what people are QQIng about |
| 18:52.30 | Ackis | and rightly so |
| 18:52.31 | Adys | stupid |
| 18:52.38 | Adys | no ackis, you're just lazy |
| 18:52.47 | Kraps | ^ |
| 18:52.55 | Adys | theres a bunch of new reps since the title was added for 40 factions |
| 18:52.56 | Cide | if you had 40 <= x < 50 exalted reps you lost it |
| 18:52.58 | Adys | and it was easy back then |
| 18:53.10 | Adys | theres been ashen verdict and all the wlk ones |
| 18:53.14 | Ackis | I have 58 exalted reps last time I counted, I didn't lose the title |
| 18:53.31 | Kraps | what, cata reps are so easy, just farm heroics |
| 18:53.47 | Adys | so theres really no qq necessary |
| 18:53.49 | Ackis | it's synonymous with them taking away your black proto drake and making you kill cata raids on heroic to get it |
| 18:54.03 | Cide | no |
| 18:54.07 | Adys | no, because you get new rewards for cleaning cataclysm heroics |
| 18:54.14 | Cide | there are other drakes |
| 18:54.14 | Adys | and they do take away old proto drakes |
| 18:54.17 | Lopeppeppy | People don't like to have earned something, and then lose it. Pisses them right off. |
| 18:54.19 | Adys | the reward itself that is |
| 18:54.26 | Ackis | why didn't you get a new reward for getting 50 exalted reputations then? |
| 18:54.28 | Cide | but you can't really come up with a more awesome title than "The Exalted", as GC put it |
| 18:54.36 | Adys | because "The Exalted" is an amazing title |
| 18:54.36 | Cide | because "The Exalted" is as awesome as it gets |
| 18:54.40 | Adys | you cant have "The Exalteder" |
| 18:54.53 | Cide | I can |
| 18:54.54 | Cide | but you can't |
| 18:54.55 | Kraps | The Exaltedestest |
| 18:54.56 | Ackis | I thought the exalted title was lame, I just use my insanse title :P |
| 18:55.11 | nevcairiel | insane is just a mark for not having a life |
| 18:55.18 | Gintaro | insanse even, quite the feat |
| 18:55.30 | Adys | insane is just a mark for spending wow playtime on things everyone else doesn't care about |
| 18:55.31 | Adys | :P |
| 18:55.33 | Ackis | but what Lopeppeppy said is right on,,, you earned the reward and then had it taken away... blizzard doesn't understand the concept of achievements |
| 18:55.59 | Adys | Im pretty sure blizzard understands the concept of achievements. |
| 18:56.13 | Ackis | no, I'm pretty positive they fail at it |
| 18:56.16 | Adys | if anything, it's pissing me off that adding new areas doesn't make you lose The Explorer |
| 18:56.29 | Ackis | achievement gained -> month later -> achievement deleted |
| 18:56.36 | Ackis | aka key achievement |
| 18:56.37 | Adys | or that you get to keep your fishing meta while they added a bunch of new fishing achs |
| 18:56.39 | Adys | and so on |
| 18:56.56 | Gintaro | At least I got to keep my Loremaster! |
| 18:57.13 | Cide | HAHAHAHA |
| 18:57.15 | Adys | same thing here |
| 18:57.17 | Cide | so get this |
| 18:57.22 | Adys | i got like 6000 quests completed |
| 18:57.29 | Ackis | only? |
| 18:57.34 | Adys | i dont know |
| 18:57.35 | Adys | i didnt check |
| 18:57.43 | Gintaro | I think they botched my quest count when I changed faction |
| 18:58.00 | Adys | Quests completed 9,581 |
| 18:58.02 | Adys | there |
| 18:58.13 | Adys | you get Loremaster for 3000 quests |
| 18:58.13 | Ackis | :P |
| 18:58.15 | Adys | something's not right |
| 18:58.22 | nevcairiel | Adys: nah, thats The Seeker |
| 18:58.31 | Adys | yeah whatever i dont care. |
| 18:58.45 | nevcairiel | Loremaster you get for completing all zone quest achievements |
| 18:58.59 | Gintaro | 5000 quest lol |
| 18:59.12 | Gintaro | and 2500 dailies |
| 18:59.16 | nevcairiel | Did you redo all classic quests since 4.0? |
| 18:59.18 | Gintaro | Is the quest count incl. dailies? |
| 18:59.21 | Gintaro | No not yet |
| 18:59.24 | nevcairiel | I think it double counts them if you did them before 4.0 as well |
| 18:59.48 | Cide | in sweden we recently elected the Sweden Democrats, sweden's nationalist party |
| 18:59.50 | Adys | nevcairiel: yeah i did |
| 18:59.52 | Adys | also |
| 18:59.53 | Adys | Vanity pets owned 145 |
| 18:59.57 | Adys | no ach for that |
| 18:59.58 | Adys | so on |
| 19:00.16 | nevcairiel | whats the highest pet achievement these days? |
| 19:00.58 | Cide | elected it to parliament that is |
| 19:00.59 | Gintaro | 3500 deaths! 50 of which due to gravity |
| 19:00.59 | Cide | anyway they are mostly ridiculed and disliked |
| 19:00.59 | Adys | nevcairiel: 75 |
| 19:01.05 | nevcairiel | They really slacked with 4.0, didnt even introduce statistics for the new dungeons |
| 19:01.15 | Gintaro | hah indeed |
| 19:01.23 | Cide | and so in parliament yesterday, one of their spokesmen apparently converted 40k euros to 40k billion SEK, which is off by 7 orders of magnitude |
| 19:01.45 | nevcairiel | its like 1:100 isnt it |
| 19:01.49 | Cide | 1:10 |
| 19:01.53 | nevcairiel | 10 only? |
| 19:01.54 | nevcairiel | oh well |
| 19:01.55 | Cide | yes |
| 19:01.57 | Cide | and our newspapers called her out on it |
| 19:02.07 | Cide | and the party's press representant called up the newspaper |
| 19:02.24 | Fisker | slaps nevcairiel around a bit with a large trout |
| 19:02.55 | Cide | saying basically "it's very unprofessional of you to do this, people misspeak all the time. what she actually meant was 4k billion." |
| 19:03.02 | Cide | hahahahaha |
| 19:03.17 | Cide | which is still off by 10^6 |
| 19:03.17 | cog|work | what level are you "supposed" to be as a worgen when you get to rut'theran? |
| 19:03.24 | Cide | 13? maybe |
| 19:03.28 | Gintaro | how does one get elected into parliament if one is the most ridiculed and disliked? |
| 19:03.29 | nevcairiel | cog|work: 12-13 something |
| 19:03.39 | Cide | Gintaro: requires 4% of votes |
| 19:03.43 | cog|work | i'm halfway through 15 |
| 19:03.43 | Cide | across the country |
| 19:03.44 | Gintaro | ahh |
| 19:03.50 | cog|work | <3 heirlooms and rank 2 fast track |
| 19:03.54 | Cide | so 4% support them but everyone else dislikes them |
| 19:03.56 | Cide | basically |
| 19:03.57 | Fisker | i got my case nevcairiel |
| 19:03.58 | Gintaro | lol |
| 19:04.00 | Fisker | my case |
| 19:04.05 | nevcairiel | Fisker: took you only a month or so |
| 19:04.10 | Fisker | ^^ |
| 19:04.18 | Fisker | i think they're somewhat rare |
| 19:04.21 | Fisker | it was in stock |
| 19:04.25 | nevcairiel | I'm getting a new couch, so i can enjoy my movies more! |
| 19:04.25 | Fisker | then i ordered it |
| 19:04.28 | Fisker | then it was out of stock |
| 19:04.29 | Fisker | BAM |
| 19:04.51 | Ackis | http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/kswb-dogs-chew-off-toes-small-dogs-chew-off-elderly-mans-toes-20110210,0,3699521.story |
| 19:05.01 | Fisker | now i just have to wait a few months for a fixed sandy bridge |
| 19:05.12 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@chello213047049072.5.graz.surfer.at) |
| 19:06.12 | nevcairiel | I think i'm getting a Z68 as replacement if they are generous and take mine back for credit |
| 19:06.19 | nevcairiel | then i can hook a 3rd screen up |
| 19:06.30 | Fisker | how so? |
| 19:06.48 | nevcairiel | integrated gpu, duh |
| 19:07.04 | Fisker | yeah but how are you going to have them working together? |
| 19:07.14 | Arrowmaster | the Z68 will let you use both at the same time? |
| 19:07.31 | Fisker | just because you have x outputs doesn't mean you can use all of them |
| 19:07.41 | Gintaro | Ackis: time to eat those dogs, an eye for an eye I say |
| 19:09.02 | Ackis | lol |
| 19:09.02 | nevcairiel | apparently the Z68 is supposed to allow that |
| 19:10.25 | Fisker | i wish Intel hadn't done a recall on sandy bridge |
| 19:10.29 | Fisker | :< |
| 19:10.40 | Fisker | i could be building my NAS/HTPC right now |
| 19:11.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@5ad4d5d3.bb.sky.com) |
| 19:11.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 19:12.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Cairenn (~Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 19:12.02 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 19:13.13 | Fisker | btw wtf |
| 19:13.24 | Fisker | i heard they were going to make SB-E quad channel memory |
| 19:13.39 | nevcairiel | all rumors |
| 19:13.56 | Fisker | it's going to be sick if they do |
| 19:14.08 | Fisker | i want 64GB of RAM |
| 19:14.19 | nevcairiel | I dont think they will. Maybe the Xeons might, but those come with more then 4 slots anyway |
| 19:16.27 | Fisker | heard any news on the xoom coming to europe? |
| 19:16.47 | nevcairiel | I surely hope so. I have some money to spend |
| 19:17.09 | Fisker | saem |
| 19:17.51 | karl_w_w | new picture of Fisker: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Q0WrC64o2mg/TL3Zh8WdERI/AAAAAAAACH4/03UC8IxCNUI/s640/penis-costume.jpg |
| 19:19.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys` (~Adys@cpc7-chap8-2-0-cust19.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 19:21.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Cairenn (~Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 19:21.13 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 19:21.18 | nevcairiel | Fisker: actually, now i remember, some o2 employee teased on some german android forum about being able to play with a Xoom. So apparently they have one for evaluation there. |
| 19:21.34 | Fisker | where does he live? |
| 19:21.43 | Fisker | /r/ dox |
| 19:22.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@adsl-226-118-41.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 19:22.14 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 19:23.36 | nevcairiel | no idea |
| 19:24.24 | nevcairiel | But at least they are finally close to releaseing froyo for my milestone! |
| 19:25.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (~Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 19:26.26 | Fisker | i can't hear you over the sound of how awesome my gingerbread is |
| 19:27.10 | nevcairiel | psh, inofficial OS |
| 19:28.57 | Fisker | my internets is acting up |
| 19:29.40 | Fisker | i wish sim cards would go away btw |
| 19:30.03 | Fisker | i just wish that it wasn't only apple who seemed to be interested in that though |
| 19:30.11 | nevcairiel | I just ordered a 3rd one for my potential xoom |
| 19:30.21 | karl_w_w | whats wrong with sim cards |
| 19:30.22 | foxlit | who's a xoom? |
| 19:30.46 | Fisker | i don't see the point karl_w_w |
| 19:30.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphon (~servers@gryphonllc.net) |
| 19:31.16 | Fisker | and the places offering more than one sim here can only have one unit receive data (i.e. GPRS, etc.) |
| 19:31.34 | nevcairiel | i can get up to 4 on the same contract |
| 19:31.52 | Fisker | hax |
| 19:32.32 | nevcairiel | I might have to increase my UMTS traffic limit when i get the tablet though |
| 19:32.39 | nevcairiel | with only the phone, i never hit my 1gb |
| 19:32.47 | *** part/#wowuidev Thaoky (Thaoky@81.66-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 19:34.58 | karl_w_w | sad sad people |
| 19:35.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Odlaw (~ozzy@c-98-245-3-204.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 19:35.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Thaoky (Thaoky@109.44-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 19:38.17 | Fisker | karl_w_w |
| 19:38.19 | Fisker | i will destroy you |
| 19:38.25 | Fisker | with a rubber duck |
| 19:38.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (~Daniel@c-98-225-45-244.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 19:39.18 | foxlit | Fisker: a bit unambitious today? |
| 19:41.15 | Fisker | never |
| 19:42.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Zhinjio1 (~Geo@home.trippy.org) |
| 19:44.56 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v nicoli_s] by ChanServ |
| 19:45.27 | Fisker | btw nevcairiel |
| 19:45.32 | Fisker | got sauce to that german with the xoom? |
| 19:46.19 | Ackis | Arrowmaster, olafski, Shirik: free Kinect avatar prop: http://www.computerbild.de/gutscheinaktionen/cbs-xbox-Karotten-Avatar-5926904.html?action=register Hit refresh until you get the Nintendo character question from page 84 & 85, answer is KIRBY, Use freetranslation.com |
| 19:47.04 | Ackis | http://mailinator.com/ throw away e-mai |
| 19:47.11 | *** join/#wowuidev psymin (~psymin@smtpstatic.blackfoot.net) |
| 19:47.19 | Adys | jnwhiteh: STALKER |
| 19:48.08 | jnwhiteh | Adys: ... you followed me. |
| 19:48.09 | jnwhiteh | loser |
| 19:48.20 | jnwhiteh | =) |
| 19:48.30 | *** part/#wowuidev mitchnull (~opera@catv3EC944A1.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 19:48.33 | Adys | STALKER STALKER STALKER STALKER |
| 19:49.17 | Ackis | who's following who? |
| 19:51.32 | Fisker | i will stalk both of you jnwhiteh |
| 19:51.52 | cog|work | How are worgen supposed to level cooking if none of the trade goods or cooking suppliers sell recipes for the stuff that drops in darkshore? |
| 19:52.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Wicet_ (~wicet_@w3637.wlan.asm.fi) |
| 19:52.14 | Fisker | they're supposed to level on the vendor recipes cog|work |
| 19:52.19 | Fisker | shoos cog|work away |
| 19:52.55 | cog|work | none of the vendors i can find have recipes |
| 19:52.58 | Fisker | YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH nevcairiel |
| 19:53.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Yith (~Yith@d199-74-183-31.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 19:53.09 | cog|work | l2r |
| 19:53.19 | cog|work | and if you meant trainer recipes |
| 19:53.22 | cog|work | l2w |
| 19:53.32 | Fisker | Date Customer Must be Ready to Receive Post-Conversion Material: February 14, 2011 |
| 19:58.10 | *** join/#wowuidev cralor (~cralor@c-98-217-6-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 19:58.31 | mckenziemc | Date Fisker must report for recycling: Jan 2, 1997 |
| 19:59.07 | Fisker | no way mckenziemc |
| 20:00.11 | mckenziemc | yes way Fiskard |
| 20:01.04 | foxlit | cog|work: you know, stormwind is a ship ride away |
| 20:02.23 | Lopeppeppy | But I don't wanna go to Stormwind! It's so faarr! /whine |
| 20:02.39 | foxlit | But perhaps more fundamentally |
| 20:02.48 | foxlit | You aren't supposed to level cooking while levelling. |
| 20:03.02 | foxlit | Gets in your way more often than it's useful. |
| 20:06.26 | Lunessa | Renewal! Renewal! |
| 20:07.11 | cog|work | foxlit: that makes no sense |
| 20:07.34 | cog|work | they WANT us to level without doing our professions and then have to grind autistically to catch up? |
| 20:08.13 | Kraps | http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0338013/ |
| 20:08.18 | Kraps | is a sads |
| 20:08.27 | Kraps | but an awesomes |
| 20:12.30 | Lunessa | Kraps: That was a very excellent story. |
| 20:12.45 | Lunessa | Also, Elijah Wood was CREEEEEEEEEEPY |
| 20:12.51 | Kraps | Lunessa: watching it a second time |
| 20:12.53 | Kraps | lol |
| 20:13.11 | Primer | So...I've trace the cause of my C stack overflow...it's astrolabe calling SetMapByID while in my watchframe handler |
| 20:13.56 | Primer | which, when called, triggers the watchframe handler... |
| 20:14.06 | nicoli_s | kraps:nearly all of michel gondry's movies are amazing |
| 20:14.12 | nicoli_s | his music videos are really good too |
| 20:14.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Ycarene (~Ycarene@24-117-51-154.cpe.cableone.net) |
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| 20:18.41 | Primer | http://paste.wowace.com/3244/ <-- Any thoughts on avoiding this recursion when trying to place an icon on the minimap using Astrolabe when inside of a watchframe handler? |
| 20:19.22 | Primer | Archarodim: if you're reading this, I know you had suggested a fix |
| 20:19.29 | Primer | I'm just wondering if there's a better way |
| 20:19.50 | Archarodim | ok |
| 20:20.21 | Primer | Archarodim: I have a feeling there's more going on here, since I'm still seeing zoning hang |
| 20:20.35 | Primer | even with your fix in place. This is why I'm trying to get to the root of the problem |
| 20:20.49 | Archarodim | My fix is just a quick fix |
| 20:20.54 | Primer | I know |
| 20:21.03 | Primer | but it worked for that specific problem |
| 20:21.08 | Archarodim | to diagnostic the issue you could add a failsafe |
| 20:21.40 | Archarodim | such as a counter that will break the recursion loop if it gets to a certain value |
| 20:21.54 | Primer | well, that's what I did here. Instead of returning when the variable was set, I called a bogus function, to trigger a stack trace |
| 20:22.49 | Primer | Well, I don't exactly know what's causing the recursion. I'd have to add this failsafe everywhere |
| 20:22.50 | Archarodim | you're using buggrabber right? |
| 20:22.54 | Primer | yeah |
| 20:23.23 | jnwhiteh | nevcairiel: whats your current spec? |
| 20:23.32 | Archarodim | (just in case, Blizzard debug tools is bugged...) |
| 20:24.28 | Primer | I suppose I could just add this failsafe to every event handler |
| 20:24.40 | Primer | as that's where it'll start |
| 20:25.15 | Archarodim | I don't remeber exactly your code but while researcging in Blizzard UI code I've noticed that the event that the hook you use as a triiger can be fired in too many ways |
| 20:25.56 | Primer | exactly. It fires again before the first invocation is finished |
| 20:26.11 | Primer | As evident in this stack trace |
| 20:27.07 | Primer | Those line numbers are reflected in the latest file: http://ceregatti.org/svnweb/index.cgi/flight-hud/blame/trunk/FlightHUD.lua |
| 20:28.47 | Adys | http://garfieldminusgarfield.net/post/3236448211/ |
| 20:30.26 | Archarodim | So even with the failsafe you still experience hangs on zonning? |
| 20:30.31 | Primer | yes |
| 20:30.42 | Primer | I never see the C Stack overflow any more though |
| 20:31.34 | Archarodim | and you're sure the hangs come from your add-on? |
| 20:31.51 | Primer | pretty sure, since disabling it allows me to zone in |
| 20:31.57 | Primer | happens a lot on HoO |
| 20:32.14 | Primer | thing is, I have no way to actually verify that, as the process is hung |
| 20:32.26 | Primer | unless things like that are logged somewhere, which would be news to me |
| 20:33.01 | Primer | ok, this is going through TomTom's Astrolabe |
| 20:33.06 | Archarodim | yep the only way is to add a failsafe on every event/hook handler |
| 20:33.24 | Primer | and the line number I'm seeing doesn't correspond with what's in the repo |
| 20:34.35 | Primer | now Handynotes... |
| 20:37.22 | Primer | ok, the Astrolabe on wowace isn't updated |
| 20:37.27 | Archarodim | do you still have the zoning hang when disabling FlightHUD.db.profile.QuestPOI |
| 20:37.32 | Archarodim | ? |
| 20:37.38 | Primer | Archarodim: good question |
| 20:38.14 | Primer | I imagine the hang is happening in that POI code, so if I had to guess, I'd say that be "no" |
| 20:39.08 | Primer | I can get it to happen pretty consistently in HoO |
| 20:39.41 | Primer | flies to Uldum... |
| 20:41.01 | Fisker | should i harass steve jobs over email? |
| 20:41.34 | Arrowmaster | Ackis: "Plush Carrot Mascot"? |
| 20:43.00 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 20:43.49 | Arrowmaster | hmm where did this RC Banshee avatar prop come from |
| 20:44.12 | Primer | I think I may have triggered it zoning to Uldum :) |
| 20:44.41 | Primer | or not |
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| 20:46.45 | Primer | of course, now I won't be able to replicate it |
| 20:50.27 | *** join/#wowuidev adimit (~adimit@vpn2792.extern.uni-tuebingen.de) |
| 20:50.28 | Archarodim | to diagnse this you could add a line like this to the beginning of all your functions : "if RecursionLoopCheck("FUNCTIONNAME", true) then return end |
| 20:50.50 | Archarodim | then RecursionLoopCheck("FUNCTIONNAME", false) at each exit points |
| 20:51.28 | Archarodim | RecursionLoopCheck() would mar the function name in a table that you could check to see which function caused the hang |
| 20:53.05 | Archarodim | Now there is another possibility: FlightHUD may be triggering a recursion loop bug elsewhere... |
| 20:53.15 | *** join/#wowuidev FierceForm (FierceForm@2002:62a6:6539:1234:2153:2d1:6cc3:781c) |
| 20:54.07 | Archarodim | Primer: Another way to prevent this from hapenning would be to used delayed calls |
| 20:54.46 | Archarodim | instead of reacting instantly to events you set a timer to call your handler |
| 20:54.59 | foxlit | gr, Brai |
| 20:55.00 | foxlit | d |
| 20:55.04 | foxlit | You cheat at every turn :( |
| 20:55.14 | Archarodim | this also avoids useless multiple calls |
| 20:55.15 | Fisker | sauce nevcairiel |
| 20:55.49 | Archarodim | since it would only reset the timer instead... |
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| 21:02.48 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 21:13.02 | Primer | Archarodim: I've thought about this. Just wasn't sure exactly how I'd implement them |
| 21:13.35 | Primer | just an "elapsed" timer? |
| 21:13.44 | Primer | i.e. don't allow this event to fire more than once ever second? |
| 21:13.53 | Primer | Thing is, I wonder what I'd miss if I did that |
| 21:17.48 | Archarodim | you have to use AceTimer-3.0 |
| 21:18.32 | Archarodim | you can look how I did in Decursive |
| 21:19.14 | Archarodim | though I use some wrapper functions with AceTimer-3.0 |
| 21:20.02 | Ackis | http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/2e9cee2a-9e27-414e-bb00-536d30722d99.jpg |
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| 21:21.10 | Primer | Archarodim: ok, I'll take a look |
| 21:23.08 | Archarodim | look in Dcr_Utils.lua, all the *Delayed* functions |
| 21:23.44 | Primer | Archarodim: I'm curious...do you use the POI stuff? |
| 21:23.52 | Archarodim | no |
| 21:23.55 | Primer | I know my addon isn't even really that popular |
| 21:24.10 | Primer | I mean, the two addons I maintain...I maintain mostly for myself :) |
| 21:24.25 | Archarodim | but because of those timers, recursion loops are impossible in Decursive |
| 21:24.25 | Primer | I myself do use the POI stuff |
| 21:24.45 | Archarodim | ah you mean in FloghHUD? |
| 21:24.49 | Primer | yes |
| 21:25.03 | Archarodim | Yes I do |
| 21:25.06 | Fisker | haha germans fail nevcairiel |
| 21:25.07 | Primer | ahh good |
| 21:25.19 | Fisker | crysis 2 dev build + the master authentication key was leaked |
| 21:25.19 | Primer | I've been adding some features lately |
| 21:25.47 | Primer | I added the ability to make the POI waypoint be hiddne when the watch frame is collapsed |
| 21:26.20 | Ackis | ho ho ho Fisker |
| 21:27.02 | Primer | but I've also added other features such as character-specific waypoints, and display options such as "display this waypoint only when in the zone it was created in", "display this waypoint continent-wide", "display this waypoint when in the continent, but not in the zone" |
| 21:27.33 | Primer | The last one being for situations when, say, you want to fly to Stormwind, but don't want to see that waypoint when IN Stormwind |
| 21:27.43 | Primer | which, as I've stated before, is something _I_ want :) |
| 21:27.53 | Primer | but hopefully others will find it useful too |
| 21:28.06 | Archarodim | we all tend to do this |
| 21:28.20 | Primer | Archarodim: I kinda feel bad |
| 21:28.28 | Archarodim | why ? |
| 21:28.33 | Primer | Archarodim: I usually tell people who use Decursive that they fail at healing :) |
| 21:28.51 | Archarodim | ^^ |
| 21:28.58 | Primer | and to "use a proper raid frame UI" |
| 21:29.17 | Primer | I'm a fan of mouseover macros and raid UIs that highlight debuffs |
| 21:29.33 | Archarodim | I'm used to it, Decursive kinda got a bad reputation among geeks^^ |
| 21:29.45 | Primer | that way I don't use a separate UI piece solely for decursing |
| 21:30.26 | Archarodim | but well download and usage counts cheers me up :) |
| 21:36.06 | *** part/#wowuidev Thaoky (Thaoky@109.44-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 21:37.23 | Archarodim | bahhh, there is definetely a bug in WoW talent API: 989.2310 (7-128-?? ????: ????? ??): StartTalentAvaibilityPolling(): Talents were not available after PLAYER_ALIVE was fired, test was made, 4.0650000000005, seconds after PLAYER_ALIVE fired. Sucess happened, 1978.622, secondes after PLAYER_ALIVE fired -|count: 1 |
| 21:39.28 | Primer | Archarodim: which is more than what I can say for my addon :) |
| 21:39.52 | Archarodim | Primer: At least have you ever tried Decursive? (I mean after WoW 2.0) |
| 21:39.58 | Primer | never |
| 21:40.12 | Primer | I started healing in BC though |
| 21:40.23 | Primer | by which time I was already using PitBull |
| 21:40.26 | Primer | in Kara |
| 21:40.49 | Primer | guildy turned me on to mouseover macros and I've never used anything since |
| 21:40.58 | Primer | anything else, that is |
| 21:41.02 | Archarodim | you should give it a try it won't even affect your framerate |
| 21:41.04 | Kraps | http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2738-Playing-Like-a-Designer-Part-2 |
| 21:41.28 | Primer | Archarodim: Am I wrong in understanding that it implements a completely separate UI for the sole purpose of dispelling? |
| 21:42.05 | Primer | i,e. CLICK ME TO DISPEL DEBUFF ON UNIT!! |
| 21:42.07 | Archarodim | not it's what it does but it's small and discrete and soooo effective |
| 21:42.54 | Primer | But I already get a visual indicator of a debuffed raid/party member from PB |
| 21:43.11 | Primer | and I'm already hovering over those frames when I'm healing |
| 21:43.29 | Primer | only time when I'm not is when I'm tanking on my pally |
| 21:43.51 | Primer | who is the only other decurser I have who is not a healer (when tanking, he's also holy) |
| 21:44.23 | Archarodim | I'm not a healer myself (I'm a mage) so there is not much I can say |
| 21:44.53 | Archarodim | but what I can read where peole talk about Decursive is that they often use it along HealBot |
| 21:45.14 | Archarodim | just to keep their mouse binding simple |
| 21:45.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Gagorian (~k@104-172.turkunet.fi) |
| 21:45.28 | Archarodim | (not ctrl-shift to cleans etc...) |
| 21:45.57 | Fisker | kiss me Gagorian |
| 21:46.10 | Archarodim | Decursive also have a powerful priority system |
| 21:46.19 | Primer | Archarodim: see...I tell people who use Healbot that they fail too :/ |
| 21:46.49 | Primer | but that's the difference right there, I never click on anything to heal/dispel |
| 21:47.03 | Archarodim | I also often see people using Decursive Grid + clique |
| 21:47.33 | Primer | normally I go: tab to target boss (so I can see his target), hover over raid frames to heal/dispel. Oh, DPS raid frame lit up to denote aggro! Pre-heal |
| 21:47.38 | Adys | Olison ! |
| 21:48.29 | Primer | Archarodim: I confess that the weakness in using mouseover macros is that it limits my movement |
| 21:48.42 | Primer | since I use the keyboard to move AND cast |
| 21:48.55 | Adys | HEY CIDE I'M DOCUMENTING ! |
| 21:49.06 | Adys | https://github.com/Adys/python-irc/commit/6554edb5261266fb26fae100be5cac90f75f90e3 |
| 21:49.11 | Primer | but I've gotten pretty adept at moving and casting (my main is a resto druid) at the same time |
| 21:51.54 | Archarodim | well I see your point, Decursive may be a little redudand in your situation but still when it comes to remove debuff someone using Decursive will always be more effective |
| 21:52.09 | Primer | in your opinion :) |
| 21:52.36 | Fisker | HEY CIDE |
| 21:53.07 | Primer | I consistently beat people using Decursive at dispels in ToC faction champs on my priest |
| 21:53.18 | Primer | granted, I was disc, but I never used mass dispel |
| 21:53.25 | Primer | just to prove a point |
| 21:53.46 | Primer | ToC 25 |
| 21:54.01 | zenzelezz | did you beat people who used Decursive, or did you use Decursive to beat people? |
| 21:54.20 | Primer | Anyhow, I recognize that people have different play style, and that Decursive has its place |
| 21:54.26 | Primer | zenzelezz: the former |
| 21:55.23 | Archarodim | Decursive allows everyone to decurse easily without even configuring a single option |
| 21:55.36 | wereHamster | does anyone else hate html emails? |
| 21:55.46 | Primer | I do not |
| 21:55.59 | Primer | BTW, when did using [] in macros change? |
| 21:56.05 | zenzelezz | wereHamster: does anyone not hate HTML email? |
| 21:56.08 | Archarodim | that's its main purpose in fact |
| 21:56.15 | Primer | It seems that every macro I have that uses [] now is broken |
| 21:56.42 | Primer | /cast [@mousevoer] [] something |
| 21:56.56 | Primer | the goal being that [] is always true |
| 21:57.01 | Primer | now it does nothing |
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| 21:58.17 | Archarodim | Primer: Just try Decursive a little while just to know what it actually does, I'm sure you'll have a better opinion |
| 21:58.41 | Synycyl | Gentlemen... and ladies if your there... How is everyone today!? |
| 21:59.06 | Primer | Archarodim: Do you have any videos? |
| 21:59.17 | wereHamster | zenzelezz: apparently some people at blizzard/activision think html email is teh future.. |
| 21:59.26 | zenzelezz | I've never even installed Decursive, and I still feel like a pretty good tank! |
| 22:00.06 | Archarodim | nope I never had to make videos |
| 22:00.25 | Arrowmaster | i had to switch from text to html emails for one site because the text ones were just completely fucking broken, no newlines at all so it was hard as hell to read |
| 22:00.50 | Elkano | who needs Decursive with Grid+Clique? |
| 22:00.53 | Ressy | I hate those html emails.. They're really annoying if you're constantly in contact with a blizz employee. >.< |
| 22:00.53 | Gagorian | Fisker: If I did I'd then have to kill myself |
| 22:00.56 | Archarodim | Primer: but just install it put it in a corner |
| 22:03.08 | Fisker | sounds like a plan Gagorian |
| 22:03.51 | Gagorian | Fisker: How much did you oc your new cpu? |
| 22:05.12 | Fisker | nothing at the moment |
| 22:05.26 | Gagorian | lame :(¨ |
| 22:05.48 | Fisker | not gonna bother until i get my new motherboard |
| 22:05.53 | Fisker | which will take some time now with the recall and shit |
| 22:06.12 | Gagorian | Myeah |
| 22:06.34 | Synycyl | Has anyone had a problem where the SavedVariablesPerCharacter aren't saving? |
| 22:06.39 | Zhinjio1 | wtf is an "alternate power bar" |
| 22:06.46 | Zhinjio1 | is that like, druid mana bar while in kitty form? |
| 22:07.13 | Gagorian | I put mine at 4.5Ghz as it didn't require anything much, just +0.005V |
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| 22:08.34 | Fisker | :o |
| 22:08.47 | Fisker | i think mine would be nosiy at 4.5GHz with stock |
| 22:09.33 | Synycyl | taps the mic |
| 22:10.01 | jnwhiteh | Zhinjio1: yes, I think so |
| 22:10.14 | foxlit | Zhinjio1: any context? |
| 22:10.30 | Zhinjio1 | yeah, sorry. pb4 module "Alternate Power Bar" |
| 22:10.34 | Zhinjio1 | just appeared with this install |
| 22:10.44 | Zhinjio1 | wasn't there a week ago |
| 22:10.56 | foxlit | could also be boss encounter specific things |
| 22:11.02 | Zhinjio1 | ooo |
| 22:11.03 | Zhinjio1 | good point |
| 22:11.18 | Zhinjio1 | like the echo thing |
| 22:12.14 | Zhinjio1 | and now I'm gonna cry. The broken config modes are removed. wonder if that means they aren't going to be fixed at all, or were just removed until they can be fixed |
| 22:15.32 | Gagorian | Fisker: Yeah probaby, I'm not sure the stock could even handle it |
| 22:16.10 | Gagorian | My Noctua NH-D14 keeps it at 66 under maximum stress |
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| 22:16.30 | Archarodim | Primer (and everyone): if you have some prejudices about Decursive you should at least read it's description page: http://www.wowace.com/addons/decursive/ |
| 22:16.41 | Archarodim | *its |
| 22:17.37 | zenzelezz | don't know about others, I'm just messing around |
| 22:17.42 | zenzelezz | never played a caster |
| 22:20.02 | Fisker | :o Gagorian |
| 22:20.07 | Fisker | seems high |
| 22:21.07 | Gagorian | Well, it's not like it's a real life scenario (Linpack with full utilization on all four cores over a few hours) |
| 22:21.17 | karl_w_w | decursive seems like a waste of screen real estate to me |
| 22:21.31 | karl_w_w | everybody should be running raid frames, and they should show debuffa |
| 22:21.37 | karl_w_w | debuffs |
| 22:21.58 | karl_w_w | just add clique and you can do all the dispelling you want |
| 22:22.08 | Gagorian | I think these can handle up to 80 for long periods without problem |
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| 22:30.20 | karl_w_w | Death's Advance may now not allow movement-impairing effects to reduce the death knight below 60/75% of normal movement speed, down from 75/100%. |
| 22:30.22 | karl_w_w | score |
| 22:32.59 | Fisker | me Gagorian |
| 22:33.26 | Gagorian | ?! |
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| 22:33.51 | karl_w_w | he's saying he has long periods |
| 22:34.16 | Fisker | you karl_w_w |
| 22:34.22 | Synycyl | Does wow no longer remember the posistion automatically for a frame? |
| 22:35.12 | karl_w_w | don't know Synycyl, Im not sure I have a single frame left that's controlled by the default ui |
| 22:35.46 | TC-Work | http://www.geekologie.com/2011/02/brushin_w_bacon_baconflavored.php |
| 22:36.07 | Synycyl | thats the only thing I left to the game. Saving the position used to be autonomous. I guess I'll have to program in to remember the x/y offsets of the frame! oh well |
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| 22:39.02 | Fisker | TC-Work |
| 22:39.04 | Fisker | hello |
| 22:39.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Nobgul-ipad (~nobgul@unaffiliated/nobgul) |
| 22:41.03 | Fisker | woo |
| 22:41.11 | Fisker | looks like we can make links on the forums now |
| 22:41.14 | Fisker | atleast for forum links |
| 22:41.35 | mckenziemc | Synycyl: it remembers the position as long as you don't log in while the addon is disabled |
| 22:42.00 | mckenziemc | the position gets lost if you log in with the addon disabled |
| 22:42.00 | Synycyl | Would you use PLAYER_LEAVING_WORLD or PLAYER_LOGOUT |
| 22:42.13 | Synycyl | mckenziemc the addon is 100% garunteed enabled ;) |
| 22:42.35 | mckenziemc | PLAYER_LOGOUT i think |
| 22:42.57 | Synycyl | Well logout is only on logout... leaves world is can trigger on logout as well as instances etc. |
| 22:43.07 | Synycyl | basically any load screen will trigger it |
| 22:43.19 | TC-Work | Fisker: yes? |
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| 22:52.10 | mikma | wobin: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1431045/ |
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| 22:59.00 | kd3 | insert kd3 going wtf at ep6 of madoka magica, then waking up and tuning to al jazeera 10-15 minutes before the veep announced that mubarak stepped down this morning |
| 23:02.18 | Synycyl | Grrr this posistion remembering is being a pain... My xOffset is returning nil always |
| 23:02.40 | Wobin | mikma: amg |
| 23:02.54 | Wobin | I kinda expected that |
| 23:03.01 | Wobin | but they'd GODDAMN BETTER DO IT RIGHT |
| 23:03.17 | Wobin | actually, I have no idea how they'll convert it to film without looking stupid |
| 23:03.51 | Wobin | The massive amounts of fourth wall breakage doesn't translate too well to a non-stupid movie |
| 23:05.49 | Wobin | mikma: oh it says Ryan Reynolds did http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0790736/ instead of Deadpool |
| 23:06.08 | zenzelezz | what am I missing, what is Deadpool? |
| 23:06.15 | zenzelezz | besides a movie in the making |
| 23:06.26 | Elkano | kd3, going to watch latest madoka now, too ^^ |
| 23:06.55 | Wobin | zenzelezz: a very funny comic book character |
| 23:07.53 | zenzelezz | mikma: which comic? |
| 23:08.15 | zenzelezz | er... Wobin |
| 23:08.17 | Wobin | ... Deadpool =P |
| 23:08.20 | zenzelezz | I = fail, again |
| 23:08.32 | zenzelezz | so the comic is the same name as the character? |
| 23:08.39 | Wobin | That's how it often goes! =) |
| 23:09.22 | *** part/#wowuidev Synycyl (~Synycyl@c-76-21-217-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 23:09.36 | Wobin | http://nervousystem.livejournal.com/142599.html |
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| 23:21.25 | Adys | so sweet |
| 23:21.25 | Adys | https://github.com/Adys/python-irc/commit/d8bd1790ec257449942072e65786f60afa147c31 |
| 23:21.57 | Nobgul-ipad | i tried playing with that but my server wouldnt run it |
| 23:22.21 | Nobgul-ipad | hrmm nvm diff one i guess |
| 23:22.22 | Adys | with python-irc? |
| 23:22.38 | Adys | i just started writing it yesterday |
| 23:22.44 | Nobgul | It was a diff one |
| 23:22.52 | Nobgul | A python server side client |
| 23:23.00 | Adys | serverside client? |
| 23:23.14 | Nobgul-ipad | web based connect to irc. |
| 23:23.18 | Adys | is that like a clientside server that's on the server acting as a client? |
| 23:23.19 | Adys | ah. |
| 23:23.22 | Nobgul-ipad | =P |
| 23:25.33 | Ackis | Fisker: can you be the mother of my children? |
| 23:25.45 | Ackis | and is there a broker version of fubar-performancefu? |
| 23:25.49 | *** part/#wowuidev Synycyl_ (~Synycyl@c-76-21-217-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 23:26.14 | Nobgul-ipad | zbrokerproformance |
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| 23:29.24 | Ackis | danke |
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| 23:30.25 | Nobgul | np |
| 23:30.40 | Nobgul | a new patch today? |
| 23:30.46 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 23:30.55 | Nobgul | eww |
| 23:32.10 | Synycyl | Nobgul hotfix... 4.0.6a |
| 23:35.12 | Nobgul | yer |
| 23:35.14 | Nobgul | oh well |
| 23:35.20 | Nobgul | nothing crazy i see |
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| 23:50.04 | foxlit | ew, mass-helions |
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