| 00:03.01 | *** part/#wowuidev Zerotorescue (~zero@53514EFF.cable.casema.nl) |
| 00:03.16 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (~theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 00:04.51 | Mirrormn | I wonder how this translationparty will translate "Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo." |
| 00:05.09 | Kraps | hey all |
| 00:05.20 | Cide | not very interestingly I'm sure |
| 00:05.23 | Cide | hi Kraps |
| 00:05.42 | Mirrormn | it ended up as "Buffer, buffer B, buffer B Baffarobaffaro" and a bunch of japanese characters |
| 00:06.04 | Mirrormn | I honestly thought it would come out unscathed =/ |
| 00:06.37 | Dagmar | So, a lot like a japanese guy learning to say "buffalo" |
| 00:08.35 | Kraps | http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/27026380205/battle-net-authenticator-change/ |
| 00:10.22 | Cide | good change. |
| 00:12.02 | Dagmar | Kraps: They should drop bans on the heads of asshats who make long-since-proven-bullshit FUD claims like the one Zarhym is humoring |
| 00:13.42 | Kraps | Dagmar: blizzard also makes us pay monthly to play wow, the money-grubbing bastards |
| 00:14.08 | Dagmar | No, specifically the charge people keep making that Blizzard is changing things to require more authenticators to increase their profits. |
| 00:14.14 | Dagmar | ...which is mind-bogglingly stupid. |
| 00:14.24 | Dagmar | ...because they're subsidizing the goddamn things. |
| 00:14.45 | Dagmar | Volume is not going to help profits when each sale is a net-loss. |
| 00:14.57 | Kraps | i was just going 3 insane steps farther ;) |
| 00:15.09 | Arrowmaster | are you sure each sale is a net-loss? |
| 00:15.31 | Arrowmaster | maybe the markup on them is normally so damn high that they are still making a minor profit from then |
| 00:17.08 | *** join/#wowuidev SqueeG (~SqueeG@cpe-24-161-96-151.hvc.res.rr.com) |
| 00:18.20 | Gnarfoz | shipping is more than what I pay for one |
| 00:18.25 | Gnarfoz | so... yes, it's a loss |
| 00:18.45 | Cide | they're still losing money on a reduced amount of players purchasing >1 account :P |
| 00:19.44 | Gnarfoz | ? |
| 00:19.51 | Gnarfoz | you don't purchase battle.net accounts, they're free |
| 00:20.27 | Gnarfoz | up until you have 8 wow accounts on your battle.net account, nothing changes for you |
| 00:21.05 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: Blizz is paying part of the cost on the basis of it's less money spent on CSRs having to recover nooblets' toons |
| 00:21.23 | Jerub | ^ this |
| 00:21.44 | Dagmar | It's as simple as that. Blizz is kicking in a few bucks to help pay for each authenticator, just to get the costs lower. |
| 00:21.51 | *** join/#wowuidev kapipi (~tor@raichu.netlab.jp) |
| 00:23.48 | Arrowmaster | kd3: did you watch star driver yet? |
| 00:24.08 | kd3 | I laughed at it. gonna give it another ep or two |
| 00:24.18 | Kraps | http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2010/10/500x_smartphone-pairs.jpg |
| 00:25.01 | Arrowmaster | kd3: do you know if thats an original show or is it based on something? |
| 00:25.07 | kd3 | dunno |
| 00:25.12 | Arrowmaster | the names in it where seriously fucked up |
| 00:25.27 | Arrowmaster | 'galactic pretty boy' |
| 00:26.00 | kd3 | which is why I laughed at it... it's sunrise-style fighting mecha without sunrise actually doing it >.> |
| 00:31.13 | Jerub | trolls |
| 00:31.30 | Kraps | humans |
| 00:48.02 | *** join/#wowuidev the-golem (~Darrin@c-98-255-201-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 00:53.57 | *** join/#wowuidev SeanK (~SeanK@pool-98-117-120-73.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 00:56.00 | Cide | Shirik: ping |
| 01:37.29 | Jerub | Adys: turns out one of my new coworkers worked on the server software for the bnet token auth stuff |
| 01:37.41 | Adys | yah? |
| 01:43.08 | Adys | Jerub: i don't suppose he feels like adding server support to my bna lib? |
| 01:43.09 | Adys | :D |
| 01:43.34 | Jerub | Adys: i think you've got a patch incoming for security. you're still generating the otp based on time instead of a random number |
| 01:43.57 | Adys | oh yah Im not a security guy, i just reverse and port shit |
| 01:44.05 | Adys | feel free to send a patch though ya :) |
| 01:45.00 | Dagmar | lol |
| 01:45.07 | Dagmar | Hey at least time won't repeat itself |
| 01:45.26 | Dagmar | Unless, of course, you're an asshole who keeps time's long int in localtime |
| 01:47.06 | Dagmar | We'll overlook the use of "otp" |
| 01:48.27 | Adys | Jerub |
| 01:48.33 | Adys | I showed you my pretty tooltips right? |
| 01:49.09 | Jerub | Adys: no? |
| 01:49.15 | Adys | how dare i |
| 01:49.18 | Adys | http://www.pastethat.com/media/files/2010/10/06/termcolor.png |
| 01:49.19 | Cide | oh Shirik |
| 01:49.21 | Cide | wake up for me |
| 01:49.29 | Adys | OH AND CIDE ARE YOU MASTURBATING TO THIS YET |
| 01:49.39 | Cide | no |
| 01:49.42 | Adys | :( |
| 01:49.43 | Cide | should I? |
| 01:49.48 | Adys | i just added nested tooltip support |
| 01:49.53 | Adys | http://dpaste.com/254791/ |
| 01:49.56 | Adys | lines 5 & 6 |
| 01:50.05 | Adys | what the fuck |
| 01:50.08 | Cide | nice line 5 |
| 01:50.15 | Dagmar | Everyone else left that font back in the 80s |
| 01:50.18 | Adys | how did this happen |
| 01:50.35 | Cide | you are ultrabad |
| 01:50.47 | Adys | stfunoob |
| 01:50.49 | Adys | Cide: http://dpaste.com/254794/ |
| 01:51.11 | Kraps | "Gamestop has announced Black Ops pre-order sales are tracking ahead of Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 sales at this point last year." |
| 01:51.15 | Thunder_Child | stop being a fail Adys |
| 01:51.35 | Cide | Adys: should rename it to isSubRender() |
| 01:51.43 | Mirrormn | =O sneaky secret day9 daily tonight |
| 01:51.43 | Cide | and add a node.render() |
| 01:52.06 | Dagmar | ehwot? |
| 01:52.11 | Dagmar | How many free badges? |
| 01:52.32 | Cide | but looking good |
| 01:52.36 | Adys | theres no subrendering or anything though Cide, it's just tooltips |
| 01:52.36 | Adys | also |
| 01:52.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Asland_ (~Asland@CPE-24-167-226-51.wi.res.rr.com) |
| 01:52.45 | Adys | i got a somewhat decent implementation for images |
| 01:53.05 | Adys | http://dpaste.com/254795/ |
| 01:53.08 | Adys | tell me what you think |
| 01:53.38 | Cide | that's so bad |
| 01:53.45 | Adys | what else do you propose? |
| 01:54.06 | Cide | not rendering images as text? |
| 01:54.13 | Adys | ... im not |
| 01:54.18 | Cide | oh |
| 01:54.21 | Cide | phew |
| 01:54.31 | Adys | i am inserting Image objects inside text |
| 01:54.34 | Adys | as in |
| 01:54.42 | Adys | giving indices inside the text |
| 01:54.55 | Adys | and telling "you can insert this Image() however you want at this position" |
| 01:57.24 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 01:57.36 | Antiarc | Hooray! http://lh5.ggpht.com/_Gl_rkTFysIE/TK5z4mccnbI/AAAAAAAACrQ/jgvS6uqKJZk/s640/IMG_20101007_182712.jpg :D |
| 01:58.34 | Adys | lol |
| 01:58.35 | Adys | nice |
| 01:58.58 | Adys | Antiarc: did you talk to the mumble guys? |
| 01:59.04 | Antiarc | about what? |
| 01:59.09 | Antiarc | (I talk to them regularly) |
| 01:59.23 | Adys | about this; they'll prolly be happy to hear about it |
| 01:59.35 | Antiarc | Oh, I've not yet, but they know I run the service |
| 01:59.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (~Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 01:59.42 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 01:59.46 | Adys | also wtf why do i keep losing chans |
| 02:04.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Borgleader (~borgleade@modemcable253.146-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 02:07.12 | Kraps | "This is a bad idea that only affects the honest ppl. Hackers can use the JAVA emulator on their PC to generate a new code every time they need to hack a new account. " |
| 02:07.14 | Kraps | ? |
| 02:08.19 | Adys | what idea? |
| 02:08.43 | Iriel | PC's come with Java emulators? |
| 02:09.11 | Kraps | one authenticator per account |
| 02:09.19 | Antiarc | Android emulator, not Java |
| 02:09.23 | Kraps | rather |
| 02:09.29 | Antiarc | But yeah, you can run the auth app in an Android emulator on your PC |
| 02:09.40 | Kraps | one account per authenticator |
| 02:09.43 | Adys | or maybe he just means an auth emulator written in java |
| 02:09.47 | Adys | which makes little sense but ya |
| 02:10.03 | Adys | Kraps: i dont get what the "bad idea" is |
| 02:10.38 | Iriel | Didn't you say "one authenticator per account", did you mean "one account per authenticator" ? |
| 02:10.48 | Adys | he said both |
| 02:10.50 | Iriel | or is this person just crazy? |
| 02:10.51 | Adys | hence why Im confused |
| 02:10.57 | Iriel | Oh, I see |
| 02:11.01 | Iriel | I didn't see the 2nd one |
| 02:11.02 | Kraps | i said rather! |
| 02:11.09 | Adys | oh |
| 02:11.11 | Adys | i didnt see the rather. |
| 02:11.27 | Iriel | The comment makes more sense, but really, I dont know how it'd severely impede most people |
| 02:11.40 | Antiarc | You don't strictly need an Android authenticator to generate auth codes |
| 02:11.40 | Adys | and er; you telling me you can currently use the same authenticator for two different accounts? |
| 02:11.48 | Antiarc | I may or may not have a PHP script that I use for my auth codes most of the time. >_> |
| 02:11.50 | Antiarc | Yes, you can. |
| 02:12.00 | Adys | Antiarc: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/python-bna/ |
| 02:12.00 | Adys | :p |
| 02:12.03 | Iriel | Antiarc: indeed,you just need Math Power (TM) |
| 02:12.04 | Antiarc | My wife and I shared an authenticator for a year or two |
| 02:12.14 | Cide | Adys |
| 02:12.15 | Adys | Antiarc: interesting, didnt know |
| 02:12.21 | Cide | didn't we talk about not sharing the code publically? |
| 02:12.24 | Cide | that's a fucking stupid idea |
| 02:12.38 | Adys | Cide, the spec is out there for anyone to read already |
| 02:12.38 | Cide | you're free to do as you wish of course but that's stupid |
| 02:12.48 | Adys | i didn't publish it before the spec was out |
| 02:13.00 | Cide | yes, but widespread adoption of same-computer authenticators is a stupid idea |
| 02:13.01 | Antiarc | It's mostly about impedence |
| 02:13.06 | Adys | and Cide |
| 02:13.07 | Cide | it makes the attack vector a lot bigger |
| 02:13.19 | Cide | because people can target a specific implementation |
| 02:13.23 | Antiarc | Code implementations are fine, but they need to be hard for the average plebe to use, so that the people using them are the people that know not to use them. |
| 02:13.26 | Adys | this has absolutely NOTHING to do with what a malicious user can do or not |
| 02:13.27 | Adys | dude |
| 02:13.31 | Adys | theres no "implementation" |
| 02:13.33 | Adys | it's a lib, chill |
| 02:13.58 | Cide | and users will use it on the same machine as their wow accounts |
| 02:14.04 | Cide | with no knowledge of the security risks |
| 02:14.05 | Antiarc | but then someone with 3 seconds of python experience puts together a GUI with it that 2 million people install |
| 02:14.13 | Antiarc | And you have a huge attack surface |
| 02:14.18 | Adys | Antiarc: plenty of people have done that already |
| 02:14.33 | Cide | and you did it even worse |
| 02:14.37 | Cide | how's that any better? |
| 02:14.37 | Adys | theres a nihilum desktop authenticator, another one running on the android emulator, etc |
| 02:14.42 | Cide | I'm aware |
| 02:14.49 | Cide | that doesn't mean even more widespread adoption is better |
| 02:14.53 | Antiarc | the nihilum one is retarded :/ |
| 02:14.58 | Cide | it's cool, sure, but stupid |
| 02:15.04 | Antiarc | it completely defeats the purpose |
| 02:15.14 | Iriel | It depends |
| 02:15.21 | Adys | blame the guy who's going to make his gui public; not me |
| 02:15.28 | Cide | you made the code public |
| 02:15.32 | Cide | you did 80% of the work |
| 02:15.38 | Adys | i licensed it MIT |
| 02:15.42 | Cide | so what? |
| 02:15.44 | Adys | which means "do whatever with it i dont give a shit" |
| 02:15.46 | Adys | which means |
| 02:15.53 | Adys | if they share it with the world, it's THEIR problem, not mine |
| 02:15.59 | Adys | they can very well keep it for themselves |
| 02:16.12 | Cide | so if I make an atomic bomb and license it with MIT, it's not your fault for blowing up the world? <- extreme analog |
| 02:16.20 | Cide | s/I/you/ |
| 02:16.20 | Antiarc | I think Cide's point is that it lowers the barrier to entry for stupid people who don't know better to do things with it |
| 02:16.31 | Iriel | It doesn't do any harm to anyone who uses an authenticator properly |
| 02:16.40 | Cide | nor does it do any good |
| 02:16.42 | Iriel | The only risk with the code being out there is that idiots will be deeper idiots |
| 02:16.44 | Shadowed | Stupid people will be stupid |
| 02:16.45 | Antiarc | It's good that implementations exist for intelligent consumption, but the problem is that people are dumb |
| 02:16.47 | Iriel | It does a tiny bit of good |
| 02:16.55 | Cide | very tiny |
| 02:16.59 | Shadowed | It seems pretty pointless to me to argue what stupid people will do :p |
| 02:17.03 | Iriel | It means accidently leaking your account password doesn't open your account |
| 02:17.06 | Adys | ~shadowed++ |
| 02:17.07 | Cide | if you have access to a secondary computer but not a phone or a physical authenticator |
| 02:17.11 | Iriel | Certainly a TARGETTED attack will succeed |
| 02:17.17 | Iriel | but i'd argue it'd succeed anyway |
| 02:17.26 | Shadowed | authenticators are still much more secure than a password even if someone is dumb with them |
| 02:17.38 | Shadowed | than just a password* |
| 02:17.41 | Cide | "much more" is relative |
| 02:17.41 | Adys | Shadowed: that's what i argued for hours with amro and Cide. dont bother. |
| 02:17.47 | Antiarc | There's a fair point that it's likely more market-viable to attack the authenticator at the time of entry into the WoW client rather than attacking the token secret. |
| 02:17.47 | Iriel | if i'm on your machine i'll steal your authenticator code as you type it in |
| 02:17.58 | Iriel | so you're fucked regardless |
| 02:18.04 | Cide | you're giving users a false sense of "much more secure" when in fact it's "slightly more secure" |
| 02:18.07 | Cide | Iriel: once |
| 02:18.07 | Shadowed | That's what one of the authenticator targeted viruses did a while ago Antiarc |
| 02:18.12 | Antiarc | Exactly |
| 02:18.14 | Cide | if you're on adys machine you can log on any time you want |
| 02:18.19 | Iriel | You only need to do it once |
| 02:18.20 | Shadowed | It crashed WoW when you submitted login info |
| 02:18.22 | Shadowed | and hijacked it |
| 02:18.31 | Adys | Cide: and Im fine with that |
| 02:18.35 | Adys | because if you're on my machine |
| 02:18.40 | Adys | odds are you can do much worse shit than steal my epics |
| 02:18.44 | Adys | like get my bank account number |
| 02:18.46 | Cide | yes but the other users who are unknowingly using your code may not be |
| 02:19.12 | Adys | I'm here to share code I deem you can build cool stuff on, and you definitely don't have to make stupid people do stupider things with it |
| 02:19.25 | Adys | whether someone achieves that or not, I *really* don't care |
| 02:19.28 | Cide | popularizing a bad thing is bad |
| 02:19.30 | Iriel | Cide - I think I sort of understand your argument, but I think it's misdirected |
| 02:19.45 | Cide | it's in the end the user's fault, sure |
| 02:19.48 | Iriel | it's bad if he said "Here is an implementation, you SHOULD USE THIS TO SECURE YOUR WOWZ" |
| 02:19.57 | Iriel | but without the last part it's not bad at all |
| 02:20.05 | Iriel | which i guess was the GUI point someone said earlier |
| 02:20.08 | Cide | it's still bad, just with less intention of it being bad |
| 02:20.29 | Iriel | How is that bad, I can download blizzard's |
| 02:20.36 | Cide | blizzard's? |
| 02:20.37 | Iriel | and be just as retarded |
| 02:20.50 | Antiarc | The inherent problem is that doing auth token generation on the same machine moves it from dual-factor security to security through obscurity |
| 02:20.50 | Cide | blizzard has a software authenticator for your pc? |
| 02:20.53 | Iriel | There's an android one |
| 02:20.53 | Antiarc | Which we all know is bad |
| 02:20.57 | Iriel | It runs on my PC |
| 02:21.01 | Iriel | if I want it to |
| 02:21.01 | Cide | with an emulator |
| 02:21.16 | Cide | that's not really the same availability by any measure though |
| 02:21.30 | Antiarc | It requires a 200mb investment rather than a 10mb investment |
| 02:21.34 | Iriel | How many PC users have the installed infrastructure to run Adys's version? |
| 02:21.44 | Cide | everyone with python |
| 02:21.47 | Cide | so... millions |
| 02:21.51 | Adys | no. |
| 02:21.52 | Adys | :P |
| 02:21.59 | Adys | believe me, I wish that were millions. |
| 02:22.00 | Antiarc | python apps can be packaged up as self-contained distributables pretty easily, too. |
| 02:22.04 | Iriel | Where does miscrosoft install python? |
| 02:22.10 | Adys | for the record |
| 02:22.16 | Cide | c:\python2x\ |
| 02:22.17 | Adys | "more implementations" usually means "less chances of attack" |
| 02:22.21 | Cide | oh |
| 02:22.27 | Cide | windows doesn't come with python |
| 02:22.40 | Cide | but it's a 3 minute install from the same page as adys' implementation |
| 02:22.42 | Antiarc | eh, I dunno Adys. If you can target 1, you can target n with trivial marginal effort. |
| 02:22.43 | Iriel | Right, so how is "python" different from "android dev emulator" ? |
| 02:22.49 | Cide | the ease of access |
| 02:22.51 | Iriel | I have to choose to install it |
| 02:22.54 | Cide | indeed |
| 02:22.59 | Cide | except lots of people have python already |
| 02:23.10 | Iriel | I think you overestimate it's popularity |
| 02:23.14 | Cide | possibly |
| 02:23.17 | Adys | (cell phones can eventually be hacked, by the way) |
| 02:23.18 | Iriel | especially outside of the community that know better |
| 02:23.36 | Adys | anyway one of my points is you're way more secure using an obscure, badly-coded browser than a very popular, very secure one |
| 02:23.36 | Antiarc | Adys: Cell phones are physically disassociated from the password, though, which is the point |
| 02:23.39 | Cide | Iriel: still, you can't possibly argue they are the same |
| 02:23.42 | Antiarc | Your account password should never ever touch your phone |
| 02:23.43 | Adys | security through obscurity and all that |
| 02:24.00 | Adys | and if theres someone out there making 150 different flawed/unsecure implementations based on my libs |
| 02:24.01 | Iriel | I'd argue that for the sake of your example of 'accessibility' they're equivalent |
| 02:24.10 | Adys | you'll be lucky if you get hit by an attack |
| 02:24.11 | Iriel | AS long as you want to blame Adys for misuse |
| 02:24.18 | Cide | downloading python from a page on python.org is a bit more likely to get a pc authenticator working than downloading an android emulator to get a piece of software marketed as for phones |
| 02:24.23 | Iriel | If you want to blame someone who takes his code and redistributes it, then it's different. |
| 02:24.35 | Cide | he redistributed it |
| 02:24.38 | Cide | well |
| 02:24.40 | Cide | distributed it* |
| 02:24.42 | Cide | on python.org |
| 02:24.48 | Cide | i.e. on google |
| 02:24.50 | Antiarc | Adys: you could just license your code as not-for-distribution to desktop clients :P |
| 02:25.25 | Adys | I don't want to be the one telling people what to do |
| 02:25.44 | Cide | for a completely newbie running that piece of code is just 1) googling that page, 2) downloading a file, 3) installing python, 4) double-clicking said file |
| 02:26.03 | Cide | and they're all available on the same page |
| 02:26.18 | Adys | as was stated above, what stupid users do is none of my business, and if they run a broken authenticator, i dont care; not because my code would indirectly get them hacked, but because they'd just as easily answer to ingame "YOU WON A MOUNT GIMME YOUR PASSWORD" scams |
| 02:26.20 | Cide | while in theory that's equivalent with running an android emulator, the virtual barrier of entry is much steeper |
| 02:26.38 | Cide | the android app is targeted for phones which is inherently much more secure than a pc by being a secondary device |
| 02:26.51 | Antiarc | (An emulated Dalvik VM is probably harder to target, too :P) |
| 02:27.01 | Adys | it's like if i were telling you to use your seat belt when you're drunk driving |
| 02:27.14 | Cide | so you're providing a means of drunk driving now? |
| 02:27.17 | Cide | good argument |
| 02:27.32 | Adys | im giving you a way to use something else than a seat belt |
| 02:27.42 | Adys | whether you use that way properly or not is none of my business |
| 02:27.52 | Cide | you're providing a way to go from a to b using drunk driving |
| 02:27.54 | Adys | but if you're out there drunk driving, i dont give a shit if my not-as-secure belt gets you killed |
| 02:27.59 | Cide | sure, it may get you where you want but it's still fucking stupid |
| 02:28.37 | Adys | you're way off. |
| 02:28.38 | Cide | I just don't think there was any reason to distribute the code |
| 02:28.41 | Cide | your analogy :) |
| 02:28.49 | Adys | read my analogy before breaking it |
| 02:28.57 | Iriel | Let me make a counter argument, given the spec is out there |
| 02:29.07 | Cide | go ahead |
| 02:29.12 | Iriel | isn't it better for there to be a high quality implementation available rather than a bunch of compromised crappy ones? |
| 02:29.30 | Cide | how can you make an implementation compromised, if it's working? |
| 02:29.35 | Cide | ^ possibly naive question |
| 02:29.41 | Iriel | it could drop codes onto the filesystem by accident |
| 02:29.45 | Iriel | it could leak stuff via the net |
| 02:29.47 | Cide | then again, Adys' implementation had a security issue |
| 02:29.49 | Adys | abuse a bug or whatever |
| 02:30.03 | Dagmar | Iriel: You feeling okay there? |
| 02:30.19 | Adys | drops a bunch of codes on Dagmar |
| 02:30.27 | Kraps | http://www.cracked.com/article_18777_5-scientific-reasons-powerful-people-will-always-suck.html |
| 02:30.55 | Dagmar | GOod thing my shirt has that new duo-dry stuff in it |
| 02:30.58 | Cide | Iriel: the real high quality implementations are provided by blizzard |
| 02:31.01 | Dagmar | shakes the codes out |
| 02:31.17 | Cide | and they provide the real security that two-device authentication is supposed to provide |
| 02:31.34 | Iriel | Cide: I've found two alernative implementations already via google, since i made my comment |
| 02:31.59 | Cide | providing a way to, as Antiarc says, reduce that to security by obscurity while still effectively marketing it as "much more secure" by means of taking the "authenticator" name, isn't good |
| 02:32.05 | Cide | Iriel: naturally; I'm arguing against all of them |
| 02:32.14 | Cide | I just don't have the implementors of the others available to bitch at |
| 02:32.30 | Antiarc | I'm guilty of one, but in my defense, mine runs on phones :P |
| 02:32.42 | Iriel | I think the discussion would be much better if you argued against the IDEA of single-machine authentication |
| 02:32.47 | Iriel | I dont think many folks would disagree with you |
| 02:33.01 | Cide | that would be arguing for a given |
| 02:33.11 | Iriel | but you did direct criticism at Adys' actions of making a library available, and I DONT consider the two equivalent |
| 02:33.12 | Cide | I'm going one step further and saying why promote something that most people agree is bad? |
| 02:33.22 | Iriel | Making something possible is not the same and doing something. |
| 02:33.28 | Dagmar | Lead in the drinking water. |
| 02:33.33 | Adys | Cide: "because it's not necessarily bad" |
| 02:33.42 | Shadowed | This is like |
| 02:33.50 | Shadowed | the most pointless argument ever, even by IRC standards :p |
| 02:33.53 | Dagmar | Just like using a screwdriver as a hammer isn't _necessarily_ bad |
| 02:33.59 | Adys | exactly |
| 02:34.02 | Cide | Iriel: right, but estimate how many people will use it for two-device authentication? |
| 02:34.02 | Dagmar | It's just the wrong damn tool to use |
| 02:34.03 | Iriel | Dagmar: in fact it's rather useful sometimes |
| 02:34.07 | Adys | as i said it's a lib, you can do whatever you want with it, even open it to see how it works |
| 02:34.11 | Antiarc | Cide has a point, because there's a level of psychological protection offered that isn't valid in the case of a desktop authenticator, but Adys' implementation isn't necessarily a desktop authenticator implementation. It just makes it more likely that someone will make one. |
| 02:34.12 | Iriel | Dagmar: when you dont have access to the right tool |
| 02:34.17 | Cide | there's the spec for that, Adys |
| 02:34.24 | Dagmar | Then you use that tool to MAKE the right tool, when it comes to crypto. |
| 02:34.37 | Dagmar | There is no such thing as a rational substitution of the wrong type of tool in crypto. |
| 02:35.15 | Dagmar | Trying to do two-part authentication inside of one scope for example isn't just a little flawed, it's A LOT flawed. |
| 02:36.06 | Cide | I'm not really sure what you're saying but I think you're saying what I'm saying |
| 02:36.49 | Antiarc | we should just cut out the middleman and argue for Blizzard to start shipping cavity probe dongle authenticators |
| 02:36.58 | Dagmar | If you're saying no software-only two-part authentication method should be used, you' dbe saying the same thing as me |
| 02:37.08 | Cide | that's a bit extreme |
| 02:37.21 | Dagmar | This is why we don't store our PGP keys on GOogle, ferinstance |
| 02:37.31 | Cide | while good in theory it's a bit hard to execute |
| 02:37.36 | Iriel | Has anyone actually looked at the 'offensive code' |
| 02:37.50 | Dagmar | Cide: It's not two-part authentication if both parts live in the same computer. |
| 02:37.56 | Cide | exactly |
| 02:38.02 | Dagmar | It just becomes a way to unneccessarily complicate a password |
| 02:38.10 | Cide | that's why it's bad to market it as such (by using the "authenticator" 'brand') |
| 02:38.24 | Dagmar | Using it like that is about as fucking smart as using licorice whips for a seat belt in a car |
| 02:38.42 | Cide | it provides additional security by obscurity (adys' original argument) |
| 02:38.43 | Dagmar | It might look cool, it might be delicious, but it won't save you from a damn thing. |
| 02:38.52 | Iriel | It's "marketed" as "Battle.net Authenticator routines in python" |
| 02:39.03 | Cide | but as it becomes a widespread implementation even that security aspect diminishes |
| 02:39.06 | Dagmar | No, that's not obscurity. That's providing security through rube goldberg. |
| 02:39.11 | Iriel | That argument is silly |
| 02:39.16 | Iriel | It's a freaking SHA1 hash |
| 02:39.31 | Antiarc | Theory aside, if I'm Joe Badguy, I'm not going to attack authenticator implementations. I'm going to hijack the auth token and use a little worker on my endpoint to disassociate authenticators from the hijacked account and replace them with my own. |
| 02:39.33 | Dagmar | All someone has to do is snatch a copy of the whole mechanism and they're dee oh ehn eee. |
| 02:39.35 | Iriel | with some screwing around for formatting |
| 02:39.49 | Cide | but you can't generate them normally, only intercept them, Iriel |
| 02:39.51 | Antiarc | Iriel: The best part is that there's an RFC spec for it. Lemme find which one :P |
| 02:40.01 | Cide | with a desktop authenticator you can generate them as well |
| 02:40.06 | Iriel | Cide: but the weakness is the STORAGE OF THE SECRET |
| 02:40.12 | Antiarc | ^ |
| 02:40.18 | Iriel | it has NOTHING to do with the code Adys released |
| 02:40.20 | Iriel | NOT A DAMN THING |
| 02:40.31 | Cide | how so? |
| 02:40.44 | Cide | the secret gives you permanent generation capabilities |
| 02:40.49 | Iriel | The algorithm is public |
| 02:40.56 | Iriel | Adys wrote code for the algorithm |
| 02:41.07 | Iriel | Nowhere in this code do I see storage of the secret |
| 02:41.08 | Antiarc | http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4226.txt :) |
| 02:41.37 | Cide | bna.getToken(secret=secret) |
| 02:41.42 | Adys | thats not storage |
| 02:41.45 | Iriel | Right, and that stores it where? |
| 02:41.45 | Cide | no |
| 02:41.46 | Iriel | RAM? |
| 02:41.46 | Adys | thats a function call. |
| 02:41.50 | Cide | exactly |
| 02:41.55 | Adys | it doesn't store it in ram either |
| 02:41.59 | Cide | what does the secret give you? unlimited generation capabilities |
| 02:42.16 | Adys | Cide, ... my lib doesn't magically give you someone else's secret |
| 02:42.30 | Antiarc | Cide, I hear what you're saying, but you're arguing for a steel-reinforced door that has a smashable glass window next to the deadbolt |
| 02:42.34 | Adys | all it does is enable you to generate a code given a specific secret |
| 02:42.35 | Cide | what does an infected machine with adys code on it give you? same thing (assuming the machine stays compromised and online) |
| 02:42.40 | Antiarc | Steel-reinforced doors are good, but the badguys take the path of least resistance. |
| 02:42.57 | Adys | Cide; if you get the secret, it's over |
| 02:43.01 | Adys | you can do whatever you please |
| 02:43.13 | Cide | yes... |
| 02:43.19 | Antiarc | If you can get two consecutive codes, it's over. You can do whatever you please. |
| 02:43.22 | Adys | the secret NEVER changes and you can reuse it later |
| 02:43.23 | Cide | and if you get a compromised machine with your code on it |
| 02:43.26 | Antiarc | And you can easily do that by crashing the client :P |
| 02:43.28 | Cide | it's over as long as you're online |
| 02:43.42 | Cide | it's over as long as you're online long enough to generate two consecutive codes* |
| 02:43.53 | Antiarc | And think about WoW players |
| 02:44.02 | Adys | I try not to think about wow players. |
| 02:44.08 | Thunder_Child | good call |
| 02:44.16 | Adys | Cide |
| 02:44.18 | Cide | you may not hand out the secret but you're making it a lot easier to effectively get the same thing |
| 02:44.21 | Adys | my library does two things |
| 02:44.26 | Cide | it's like handing the hackers your mobile phone |
| 02:44.28 | Antiarc | Boot WoW, enter code, 5-second delay, crash. Dang. Boot WoW, enter code, 5 second delay, crash. Dang. Off go those two codes to the attacker's bot, which now takes their credentials and pulls the authenticator off their account. |
| 02:44.31 | Cide | with the authenticator on it |
| 02:44.41 | Adys | it enables you to generate a token for a specific secret, at any point in time that pleases you |
| 02:44.50 | Adys | and it enables you to query a new authenticator's secret and serial |
| 02:44.55 | Adys | (create one) |
| 02:44.58 | Iriel | Please stop equating Adys' code with an "Authenticator on your PC" app.. |
| 02:45.05 | Iriel | because it's just annoying the hell out of me |
| 02:45.05 | Cide | how is it different? |
| 02:45.12 | Cide | you run the code and that's what it becomes |
| 02:45.17 | Adys | you dont "run the code" |
| 02:45.19 | Iriel | I run the code and python exits |
| 02:45.36 | Adys | Cide: this is NOT an authenticator; it's an authenticator protocol implementation |
| 02:45.45 | Cide | alright, I guess I'm mistaken |
| 02:45.56 | Cide | I figured it contained your original implementation also |
| 02:46.06 | Cide | which did all that on top |
| 02:46.12 | Adys | i clearly said it didnt, twice :P |
| 02:46.18 | Cide | you said a lot of things |
| 02:46.21 | Iriel | I actually followed his link and looked |
| 02:46.25 | Cide | so did I |
| 02:46.26 | Iriel | it's usually easier in the long run |
| 02:46.27 | Cide | but I'm tired |
| 02:46.34 | Cide | I didn't download the zip file |
| 02:46.39 | Cide | s/zip/tar/ |
| 02:47.05 | Cide | Iriel: Adys linked source code to a fully functioning "authenticator app" in python a while ago (weeks) |
| 02:47.18 | Adys | example code* |
| 02:47.26 | Cide | same thing :P |
| 02:47.29 | Cide | hence my confusion |
| 02:47.43 | Adys | i, on purpose, didn't put the complete thing on dpaste (and it expired) :p |
| 02:47.54 | Cide | good |
| 02:47.59 | Cide | may the code stay forever hidden |
| 02:48.13 | Cide | until someone puts your lib in a 5 minute pyqt project |
| 02:48.37 | Cide | and then we can argue how much blame is to be placed on you |
| 02:48.58 | Cide | certainly not the majority but arguably not zero! |
| 02:48.58 | Iriel | Should we blame blizzard for implementing RFC4226? |
| 02:49.02 | Thunder_Child | in the end it's up to the user |
| 02:49.15 | Iriel | Maybe they should have made something up themselves without any peer review? |
| 02:49.21 | Iriel | because obviously that's more secure. |
| 02:49.47 | Cide | Iriel: no, since they provided example implementations that properly reinforce the two-device paradigm |
| 02:49.52 | Iriel | we should blame the python hmac library authors too, for making SHA1 available in places where it's used irresponsibly |
| 02:49.53 | Cide | and *only* that pardigm |
| 02:50.10 | Adys | Cide; that was my point though. i *really* dont care if people get hacked because they're using a flawed implementation based off my lib. because either those guys don't care either, or they'd get hacked by a simple mail spam |
| 02:50.32 | Antiarc | Blizzard shipped their initial Android app with debug whatevers enabled so people were able to pull the original source out of the apk, as I understand it :P |
| 02:50.40 | Antiarc | So in the end, we can just blame Blizzard anyhow :P |
| 02:50.43 | Cide | the source is no problem |
| 02:50.47 | Cide | the device on which it's run is |
| 02:50.53 | Adys | it's not that Antiarc |
| 02:50.56 | Cide | or whether or not it's the same as the one running wow, rather |
| 02:50.58 | Iriel | I will happily join you in a tirade against the idiocy of any "run this on your PC" authenticator client, but not a library |
| 02:51.22 | Adys | Antiarc: it was the motorola version of the authenticator app that was contained in a .jar with full java source code shipped with it |
| 02:51.34 | Adys | it was ported to php; I ported the php version to python |
| 02:51.35 | Antiarc | I should just make an authenticator addon to see if I can get Cide's head to explode. :P |
| 02:51.37 | Iriel | even without source, jad does wonders |
| 02:51.43 | Antiarc | Adys: Ah, that's what it was. |
| 02:51.58 | Cide | my head rarely explodes |
| 02:52.02 | Adys | or does it |
| 02:52.07 | Cide | regardless |
| 02:52.09 | ckknight | Adys: and as soon as I get my Windows Phone 7, I'll be making an authenticator app. That is, if Blizzard doesn't do it right away (imo, they won't) |
| 02:52.11 | Cide | the source isn't an issue |
| 02:52.15 | ckknight | :P |
| 02:52.38 | Iriel | ckknight: and we'll all laugh at you for having a windows 7 phone |
| 02:52.43 | ckknight | fuck off |
| 02:52.43 | Iriel | ckknight: i'm already laughing a little |
| 02:52.46 | Antiarc | "To use this authenticator, you must have two WoW accounts, one without an authenticator. Log in, type /authenticator, and type the authenticator code into your second WoW session" |
| 02:52.53 | ckknight | Iriel: have you ever seen or used one? |
| 02:52.58 | Cide | Antiarc: pretty sweet |
| 02:53.31 | Cide | now show the security of the n'th session by induction |
| 02:53.37 | Antiarc | :D |
| 02:53.44 | Iriel | ckknight: no, i just have a well developed distaste for microsoft and their way of doing business |
| 02:53.46 | Antiarc | *pulls secret out of savedvars* |
| 02:53.57 | Iriel | Maybe the secret is kept in wow mail |
| 02:53.57 | Cide | speaking of microsoft |
| 02:54.01 | ckknight | Iriel: okay, so you have no actual technical issue |
| 02:54.05 | Antiarc | Ooh, good idea, Iriel. |
| 02:54.07 | ckknight | just a political one |
| 02:54.08 | Iriel | ckknight: Philosophical |
| 02:54.11 | Iriel | ckknight: yeah |
| 02:54.12 | ckknight | okay then |
| 02:54.22 | Antiarc | I don't really get what niche the Win7 phones are supposed to fill. |
| 02:54.33 | Cide | steve ballmer held a talk at my school on monday |
| 02:54.36 | Cide | it was pretty sweet. |
| 02:54.41 | Iriel | Antiarc: the "microsoft isn't making enough money of non windows phones" niche |
| 02:54.42 | Antiarc | Apple has the "shiny one button" crowd pleased, Android has the "I want my phone to make me steak and do backflips" crowd pleased. |
| 02:54.45 | Adys | Cide: you mean |
| 02:54.47 | ckknight | Antiarc: it's entering an existing niche |
| 02:54.48 | Adys | it was pretty sweat. |
| 02:54.51 | Cide | nah |
| 02:55.12 | Cide | he had a white shirt on him but no sweat |
| 02:55.17 | Cide | I too was surprised |
| 02:55.31 | Iriel | In his defense, stage lights are HOT |
| 02:55.52 | Cide | especially if you run around screaming in them |
| 02:56.08 | Antiarc | developers developers developers developers developers developers developers developers developers developers |
| 02:56.30 | Cide | I... love... this.... company YEAAAHH |
| 02:56.41 | Iriel | I have a friend who works for Adobe, i'm getting ready to mock him mercilessly if microsoft buy them |
| 02:56.44 | Torhal | lifts the needle and sets it down in a different place on Antiarc. |
| 02:57.10 | Cide | the coordinates may be different but the output is constant, Torhal |
| 02:57.12 | Antiarc | Torhal: you aren't familiar with the most famous of the Ballmerisms, I see |
| 02:57.19 | Iriel | Torhal: it's developers all the way down |
| 02:57.24 | Thunder_Child | you laugh, but microsoft isnt going anywhere soon. |
| 02:57.25 | Adys | Iriel: I long for the day microsoft will buy adobe and discontinue flash for silverlight blindness |
| 02:57.29 | Adys | achieve nothing with either |
| 02:57.35 | Antiarc | Windows 7 is a hell of a great OS, I'll give them that. |
| 02:57.39 | Adys | and html5/js/whatever take over |
| 02:57.41 | ckknight | Silverlight's way nicer than Flash. |
| 02:57.49 | ckknight | both as a developer and a user |
| 02:57.54 | Adys | i heard that about NeXT |
| 02:58.00 | Cide | does it exist for anything but windows? |
| 02:58.02 | Cide | <- uninformed |
| 02:58.03 | ckknight | I'm telling you from experience |
| 02:58.10 | Adys | Cide: there's moonlight |
| 02:58.12 | ckknight | Cide: yea, Mac is fully supported, Linux through Moonlight. |
| 02:58.13 | Cide | does it exist for anything but internet explorer? |
| 02:58.13 | Torhal | Antiarc: Nah. I stopped lurking on tech news sites years ago. |
| 02:58.19 | ckknight | Cide: all major browsers. |
| 02:58.22 | Cide | nice |
| 02:58.25 | Dewin | Hmm... I'm just musing... does putting something in a trade window require a hardware event? |
| 02:58.28 | Adys | nobody uses it |
| 02:58.37 | Cide | too bad the plugin isn't more available then |
| 02:58.39 | Adys | because silverlight was made at the wrong time |
| 02:58.42 | Cide | any numbers on adoption? |
| 02:58.50 | ckknight | Cide: it's around the 55% range |
| 02:58.53 | ckknight | last I saw |
| 02:58.56 | Cide | uh really? |
| 02:58.57 | ckknight | Flash being at 97% |
| 02:59.12 | Cide | I have visited I think two silverlight sites in my life |
| 02:59.20 | Antiarc | Netflix is silverlight :/ |
| 02:59.20 | Cide | and I didn't install the plugin for either |
| 02:59.24 | Adys | Cide: they force it on IE, and they used to do some forcing on firefox too through some toolbar crap or i dont remember what |
| 02:59.36 | Thunder_Child | microsoft synth is silverlight, and it's rather good |
| 02:59.37 | Adys | like the .net runtime update installing SL for FF |
| 02:59.38 | Adys | or some shit |
| 02:59.40 | ckknight | they don't force it on IE |
| 02:59.44 | ckknight | it's an optional install |
| 02:59.47 | ckknight | it's always been an optional install |
| 03:00.00 | Adys | ckknight: i mean "force" as in "install by default and make it impossible for lambda user to figure out it will be" |
| 03:00.05 | Thunder_Child | s/synth/photosynth/ |
| 03:00.10 | ckknight | then don't say force, Adys |
| 03:00.23 | Cide | force is when you rm -r and go oh the fuck shit |
| 03:00.44 | Cide | s/fuck/fucking |
| 03:00.46 | ckknight | rm -rf |
| 03:00.57 | Cide | that was implied with the "force" |
| 03:01.04 | Cide | I guess that wasn't clear enough |
| 03:01.29 | Adys | ckknight: what do you think licks the most testicles at microsoft, "forcing a software install" or "stealthily installing a piece of software, unbeknownst to most users" :p |
| 03:01.45 | Cide | I don't think they're setting out to do either |
| 03:01.51 | Adys | seriously |
| 03:01.59 | Adys | had silverlight been out like 5 years ago |
| 03:02.07 | Adys | im positive even id be running it because youtube requires it |
| 03:02.09 | Cide | I think linux people overestimate microsoft's evilness by about 50x |
| 03:02.11 | ckknight | they've never stealthily installed it, it's an optional windows update, but never required |
| 03:02.28 | Cide | and underestimate the evilness of all other major corporations by the inverse |
| 03:02.35 | ckknight | Cide: yea... |
| 03:02.37 | Cide | just a theory I'm running |
| 03:02.41 | Thunder_Child | Cide: s/linux/everyone/ |
| 03:02.42 | Arrowmaster | ckknight: you cant call moonlight silverlight support, it barely works and only for silverlight 1.x |
| 03:02.43 | Adys | ckknight: ive read too many reports of "some firefox addon install after a windows update" not to say "stealthily" :p |
| 03:02.46 | Cide | nah |
| 03:02.52 | Cide | only the enlightened geeks |
| 03:02.57 | ckknight | Adys: yes, that was an optional install |
| 03:02.59 | Thunder_Child | most people think ms is 'evil' |
| 03:03.01 | Thunder_Child | which is bs |
| 03:03.04 | Cide | no they don't |
| 03:03.09 | Adys | ckknight: yes, yes, optional, stealthy install |
| 03:03.09 | Adys | :p |
| 03:03.10 | ckknight | Arrowmaster: yea, I never said it was fully supported. |
| 03:03.22 | ckknight | okay, you're hopeless, Adys, I'm done with this convo |
| 03:03.24 | Cide | in our environment maybe |
| 03:03.28 | Arrowmaster | currently it doesnt really work on anything |
| 03:03.34 | Arrowmaster | except maybe a demo site |
| 03:03.41 | Cide | but 95% of the world's pcs use windows so I doubt the majority think microsoft is evil |
| 03:03.49 | Cide | of course there's not a super-strong correlation but still |
| 03:03.51 | Thunder_Child | just because you use something..... |
| 03:03.56 | Cide | see above |
| 03:04.06 | Cide | why would they be evil? |
| 03:04.26 | Arrowmaster | because they are capitalist pig dogs |
| 03:04.31 | Cide | I know there are reasons that the people who read up grasp on to but the vast majority don't know about that |
| 03:04.32 | Thunder_Child | i dunno, i'm not in that percentage. i have issues with certian things they do but i think they are a fine company |
| 03:04.39 | Cide | Arrowmaster: most corporations are yeah? |
| 03:04.42 | Cide | or are trying to be |
| 03:04.52 | Arrowmaster | and capitalist pig dogs are evil |
| 03:04.54 | Cide | they've done some bad things in their past but /hsrug |
| 03:05.09 | Cide | as long as you believe all other corporations to be as evil then I'm fine with that remark :P |
| 03:05.16 | Arrowmaster | i do |
| 03:05.19 | Cide | most people associate microsoft with a special level of hell though |
| 03:05.26 | Arrowmaster | i do that too |
| 03:05.46 | Cide | the two "i do"'s are pretty mutually exclusive |
| 03:05.59 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 03:06.09 | Cide | either you don't think they're all as evil, or the special level of hell isn't that special :P |
| 03:06.16 | Thunder_Child | they may be going to hell, but they are taking an offly nice scenic route |
| 03:06.20 | Iriel | I have more windows installs in this room than any other OS, but I still dont like MS |
| 03:06.42 | Thunder_Child | awfully* |
| 03:06.45 | Cide | yeah, Iriel, I don't like some of their practices either |
| 03:06.45 | Adys | see i never talk about ms' evilness or whatever |
| 03:07.04 | Cide | but I still don't mind them as a company, certainly much less now than before |
| 03:07.07 | Adys | i dont think they're THAT BAD compared to some corps that dont have one hundredth of the money they have |
| 03:07.20 | Torhal | SCO! |
| 03:07.35 | Cide | and lots of people think they're evil because they sell windows for a high price |
| 03:07.49 | Cide | which is as stupid a reason as you can get |
| 03:07.53 | Adys | i think that's confusing evil with greedy. |
| 03:08.03 | Cide | it is |
| 03:08.47 | Thunder_Child | i dont mind windows, it's office that pisses me off |
| 03:09.02 | Cide | why? |
| 03:09.15 | Iriel | Mac office needs to go to a special place in hell |
| 03:09.37 | Thunder_Child | does it really have that many more man-hours that it needs to cost 6 times as much as a game? |
| 03:09.40 | Iriel | And whoever on that team implemented the desktop integration (i.e. interoperability with the underlying windowing system) needs to be fired. |
| 03:09.49 | Cide | Thunder_Child: don't buy it then |
| 03:09.56 | Cide | there are free alternatives |
| 03:09.58 | Thunder_Child | Cide: dont get me wrong, i like it |
| 03:10.03 | Cide | there you go then |
| 03:10.06 | Thunder_Child | it's simply expensive |
| 03:10.07 | Cide | either it's worth it or it's not :P |
| 03:10.15 | Thunder_Child | it's worth it to be a student :p |
| 03:10.36 | Cide | agreed |
| 03:10.42 | Cide | apple gives me 10% off |
| 03:10.53 | Cide | microsoft gives me all their software for free |
| 03:12.05 | Iriel | Apple gives you XCode for free |
| 03:12.17 | Cide | is xcode all that special? |
| 03:12.25 | Iriel | It's got some nice tools if you're a developer |
| 03:12.31 | Cide | lots of ide's do |
| 03:12.46 | Cide | I haven't used xcode though |
| 03:12.56 | Iriel | I meant the "package" more than necessarily the editor part |
| 03:13.01 | Cide | ah |
| 03:13.05 | Cide | I'm unfamiliar with the specifics |
| 03:14.19 | Iriel | I think you're correct in that "XCode" proper is the IDE, but the development download it comes with has a ton of tools for profiling and such |
| 03:14.38 | Cide | that's nice |
| 03:14.57 | Cide | for that matter, visual studio professional/ultimate is free for me also |
| 03:15.09 | Cide | but regardless, I must slepe |
| 03:15.17 | Cide | god I can't type tonight. sleep. good night |
| 03:22.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Diao (vince@adsl-99-169-82-142.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:28.44 | PProvost | Anyone have a sense of how likely the 4.0 patch is for next Tuesday? |
| 03:29.27 | Jerub | PProvost: if they don't make it next tuesday, cata won't make launch, imho |
| 03:41.52 | Adys | no way it doesnt make next tuesday yeah |
| 03:42.04 | Ackis | hai everyone I survived today sorry to tell you :P |
| 03:42.26 | Thunder_Child | Ackis: damn |
| 03:42.36 | Thunder_Child | oh well, here is hoping for next time |
| 03:44.07 | Ackis | sorry |
| 03:44.27 | Ackis | is there an andriod of symbian emulator that I can run in win 7 that will let me install apps? |
| 03:45.34 | Jerub | Ackis: android? sure. |
| 03:45.48 | Ackis | Jerub: is it part of the sdk? |
| 03:45.55 | Jerub | Ackis: yep. |
| 03:45.57 | Jerub | it's built in |
| 03:48.42 | Ackis | it's downloading all these old platforms bleh |
| 03:49.17 | Jerub | Ackis: that's built in |
| 03:49.17 | Jerub | ;) |
| 03:50.18 | Ackis | I downloaded 20 megs just to sit and download a shitload more |
| 03:51.28 | Kraps | i could really use a wish right now wish right now wish right now |
| 03:52.24 | Ackis | Jerub: so it's running finally... but I just see andriod and that's it |
| 03:52.59 | Jerub | you can interact with it using adb |
| 03:53.18 | Jerub | i've not done anything with an emulator, i just throw stuff on hardware |
| 03:53.25 | Ackis | adb? |
| 03:53.33 | Ackis | I don't have hardware, the app I want isn't availible on blackberry |
| 03:53.51 | Jerub | adb is a cmdline tool |
| 03:53.55 | Jerub | adb install somepackage.apk |
| 03:54.18 | Ackis | ah ok |
| 03:56.42 | Antiarc | Adys: Do you have a Motorola phone with sideload disabled? |
| 03:56.54 | Adys | i have an HTC desire, sorry |
| 03:57.02 | Antiarc | Well, that's even easier |
| 03:57.16 | Antiarc | Why not just transfer the apk onto your phone? Or am I missing the idea here? |
| 03:57.24 | Antiarc | oh, you want to install apps in the emulator, yeah, adb |
| 03:57.30 | Antiarc | (I suck at reading apparently) |
| 03:57.57 | Jerub | Antiarc: hi. Meet Adys. Adys meet Antiarc. |
| 03:58.14 | Jerub | Antiarc: Also, while you're here, meet Ackis. Ackis, this is Antiarc. |
| 03:58.15 | Adys | Hi |
| 03:58.18 | Adys | were you talking to Ackis. |
| 03:58.24 | Adys | I h8uall |
| 03:58.36 | Ackis | Antiarc: I have a blackberry |
| 03:58.41 | Ackis | <3 Adys |
| 03:58.47 | Antiarc | hurrrrrf. |
| 03:58.50 | Antiarc | ANYWAY. |
| 03:59.53 | Ackis | no app store in this dev thing |
| 04:00.19 | Jerub | Ackis: yep, there isn't. |
| 04:00.29 | Jerub | there are various hacks you can apply to get the app store on it. |
| 04:00.42 | Jerub | what are you actually trying to run |
| 04:00.59 | Ackis | fable3kingmaker lol |
| 04:02.57 | Jerub | you need to get the apk somehow ;) |
| 04:03.03 | Jerub | or hack the emulator to run the market |
| 04:03.07 | Jerub | both are possible. |
| 04:03.38 | Ackis | the instructions were to go to the website or market, but when I go to the site on the emulator it asks me to install silverlight |
| 04:06.34 | Kraps | http://kotaku.com/5658689/dont-expect-that-world-of-warcraft-movie-any-time-soon meh |
| 04:06.48 | Adys | Jerub |
| 04:06.55 | Adys | http://www.pastethat.com/media/files/2010/10/07/pattern-resolute-cape.png |
| 04:06.56 | Adys | http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/24305/pattern-resolute-cape/ |
| 04:07.18 | Jerub | Adys: niice |
| 04:07.28 | Jerub | Adys: but i'd use the sane notation for currency |
| 04:07.31 | Jerub | 3g31s81c |
| 04:07.35 | Jerub | or 3g 31s 81c |
| 04:07.55 | Adys | Jerub: this is very temporary until i implement a proper inline Image class |
| 04:09.47 | Adys | there, Im using 3g 31s 81c now ;) |
| 04:10.12 | Jerub | Adys: now this needs a telnet interface ;) |
| 04:10.38 | Adys | if i was bored and blizzcon wasnt so soon, I'd do one |
| 04:10.39 | Adys | :p |
| 04:14.20 | Adys | The hell |
| 04:14.24 | Adys | lockpicking skill is gone in cata? |
| 04:14.33 | Jerub | thank christ for that |
| 04:14.48 | Adys | i mean |
| 04:14.50 | Adys | lockpicking AS a skil |
| 04:14.51 | Dagmar | From now on you'll be unlocking chests with Valor Points |
| 04:14.52 | Adys | l |
| 04:18.40 | Adys | Jerub: http://www.pastethat.com/media/files/2010/10/07/Screenshot.png |
| 04:18.41 | Adys | there :) |
| 04:19.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (~Kandoko@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 04:19.54 | Jerub | Adys: so this is a little perl script or javascript or something? |
| 04:20.01 | Adys | Nop. pure python |
| 04:20.04 | Jerub | Adys: because a lightweight atlasloot sounds really appealing tome :) |
| 04:20.18 | Adys | this is commandline |
| 04:20.27 | Adys | using python-termcolor |
| 04:21.06 | Adys | Jerub: http://dpaste.com/254838/ |
| 04:21.38 | Adys | Jerub: what do you mean though, a "lightweight atlasloot"? |
| 04:23.44 | Jerub | Adys: uh, to search and query items |
| 04:23.57 | Adys | where? ingame, or? |
| 04:24.05 | Jerub | on a pc side by side with wow |
| 04:24.10 | Jerub | i run wow in a window and alt-tab a lot |
| 04:24.17 | Jerub | and i use wowwiki.com or wowhead.com a lot |
| 04:24.18 | Adys | it would be easy to do that |
| 04:24.25 | Adys | this library is insanely powerful |
| 04:24.27 | Jerub | would be awesome to be able to have a simple text ui instead :P |
| 04:24.38 | Adys | well the thing is |
| 04:24.43 | Adys | right now, it runs on extracted dbcs |
| 04:25.04 | Adys | but once teomyr and i are done with the python-stormlib bindings |
| 04:25.16 | Adys | i can easily make a backend that queries directly from the game mpqs |
| 04:25.18 | Ackis | Jerub: I think I got it working thanks |
| 04:25.55 | Adys | in essence, this whole library is a reimplementation of wow, you can do pretty insane stuff with it |
| 04:26.07 | Adys | such as streaming blps directly converted to png by the web server |
| 04:26.22 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@user-11217cv.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 04:26.22 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 04:27.05 | Adys | or shit like example.com/files/wow/interface/icons/temp.blp?build=13117 |
| 04:27.09 | Ackis | fucking thing needs a gps |
| 04:27.28 | Adys | and this with the same wow install |
| 04:27.33 | Adys | nothing extracted |
| 04:27.49 | Jerub | Adys: really? that's awesome |
| 04:27.58 | Jerub | Adys: but can you do stuff like look at loot tables? |
| 04:28.10 | Jerub | or do i need a metadata set to go with it as an index? |
| 04:28.18 | Jerub | doesn't know about wow's internal datastore |
| 04:28.38 | Adys | the loottables arent shipped with the game unfortunately |
| 04:28.49 | Adys | if they were; you could |
| 04:29.37 | Yssaril | Jerub: http://www.wowace.com/addons/yssbossloot/ is simpler than atlasloot (imo though i am bias) |
| 04:29.55 | Jerub | Yssaril: cool. |
| 04:30.07 | Jerub | (I only use atlasloot because i was told to install it by a guildmate a million years ago) |
| 04:30.40 | Adys | Jerub: for what it's worth though |
| 04:31.02 | Adys | the script could download whatever table off the web |
| 04:31.03 | Yssaril | hehe YssBossLoot only gives you loot tables nothing else but it does so by adding bosses to your ingame maps and when you click them it pops up its loot table |
| 04:32.09 | Jerub | i'll have a go with that when i get home yssaril |
| 04:32.14 | Jerub | it loosk nice. |
| 04:32.17 | Adys | Jerub: the lookups are the simplest thing; what is tricky is getting the info off the game files and generating a tooltip with them |
| 04:32.31 | Adys | so it'd be piss easy to do what you want with this lib yes :) |
| 04:33.41 | Xinhuan | hmm i wonder what blizzcon merchandise will be available tomorrow |
| 04:35.15 | Adys | i really need to get packing |
| 04:35.19 | Adys | barely started my bags |
| 04:35.26 | Xinhuan | packing what |
| 04:35.34 | Adys | for blizzcon |
| 04:35.39 | Arrowmaster | already? |
| 04:35.46 | Adys | well im staying 3 weeks :p |
| 04:36.33 | tem | you're staying 3 weeks?! |
| 04:36.46 | Adys | im staying 3 weeks. |
| 04:38.18 | Xinhuan | o_O |
| 04:38.40 | Adys | what's wrong with that? :P |
| 04:40.49 | *** join/#wowuidev daev (~bleh@pool-72-86-110-88.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 04:40.51 | Xinhuan | why 3 weeks |
| 04:41.01 | Xinhuan | it must be something more than blizzcon |
| 04:41.04 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: you see todays xkcd? |
| 04:41.59 | Adys | Xinhuan: staying at a friend's in boston |
| 04:42.35 | Arrowmaster | last time i flew on a plane it was to see a friend in boston |
| 04:43.01 | Thunder_Child | boston != aneheim |
| 04:43.10 | Adys | We should have sex, Arrowmaster |
| 04:43.13 | Arrowmaster | totally |
| 04:43.20 | Thunder_Child | anaheim* |
| 04:43.40 | Thunder_Child | your such a slut Adys |
| 04:43.42 | Adys | Thunder_Child: I wonder if you make as many typos irl as irc |
| 04:43.50 | Adys | you're* |
| 04:44.11 | Thunder_Child | no |
| 04:44.16 | Thunder_Child | vocab >>>> spelling |
| 04:46.40 | Kraps | devs getting testy? http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17457428&postcount=18 |
| 04:57.49 | Xinhuan | hmm why is google.com promoting John Lennon |
| 04:58.13 | Jerub | sir john lennon |
| 04:58.53 | Jerub | hah, no, i'm wrong |
| 04:59.39 | Xinhuan | i suppose its just a tribute, similar to the pacman one |
| 05:06.25 | *** join/#wowuidev |Jelly| (~User@99-99-194-150.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 05:06.42 | *** join/#wowuidev robokitty (~roboe@50A2E6C0.flatrate.dk) |
| 05:07.19 | Kraps | "Enjoy big savings this weekend on Modern Warfare 2 at 33% off." |
| 05:08.15 | Kraps | not low enough |
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| 05:08.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Xyphoid (~xx@unaffiliated/xyphoid) |
| 05:08.55 | Thunder_Child | agreed |
| 05:09.11 | Thunder_Child | also, i think i happen to own it |
| 05:10.23 | Thunder_Child | Kraps: however killing floor is 50% off....not that i know what kind of game it is |
| 05:10.32 | Thunder_Child | oh, generic fps |
| 05:10.41 | Kraps | wit zombies! |
| 05:10.49 | Thunder_Child | yes, so like i said |
| 05:11.24 | Thunder_Child | besides i hate horror |
| 05:14.17 | Thunder_Child | "Uses germicidal ultraviolet (UV) light to eliminate 99.9% of germs and bacteria like e. coli, salmonella, listeria, and streptococcus" if your troothbrush has e. coli on it, i think you have bigger problems |
| 05:16.11 | Yssaril | if a toothbrush gets that "infected" it is time for a new one |
| 05:17.22 | Jerub | Thunder_Child: lots of those bacteria fly around all the time |
| 05:18.09 | Yssaril | yea but not in high enough concentration to cause you harm unless you have imune system problems |
| 05:19.33 | Fisker | Thunder_Child |
| 05:22.38 | angayelle | too early executus... i hate morning |
| 05:23.22 | Jerub | best pickup line ever |
| 05:23.25 | Jerub | http://imgur.com/4UgoF.jpg |
| 05:23.47 | Yssaril | lol |
| 05:24.20 | *** join/#wowuidev robokitty (~roboe@50A2E6C0.flatrate.dk) |
| 05:24.35 | angayelle | i'm sure this guy pack his brief color by color |
| 05:29.25 | Fisker | Thunder_Child |
| 05:29.42 | Fisker | you seem to be hiding |
| 05:29.53 | Kraps | facepalms at Jerub |
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| 05:30.46 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 05:32.28 | Fisker | Thunder_Child |
| 05:40.56 | *** join/#wowuidev zenzio (~zenzio__@85.19.77.194) |
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| 05:48.33 | Fisker | sup Thunder_Child |
| 05:48.35 | Fisker | sup kd3 |
| 05:50.32 | Fisker | cuts up Jerub |
| 05:51.22 | Jerub | i love how everyone's being all mean to me |
| 05:51.28 | Jerub | but everyone's also clicking on my link |
| 05:51.29 | Jerub | :D |
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| 05:52.57 | Fisker | i fucked you Jerub |
| 05:53.06 | zenzio | what link? |
| 05:54.07 | unfo- | Jerub, lol :D |
| 05:54.34 | Jerub | best pickup line ever : http://imgur.com/4UgoF.jpg |
| 05:55.03 | Shadowed | I should ban you for that |
| 05:55.21 | Fisker | why Shadowed ? |
| 05:55.29 | Fisker | that is madness |
| 05:56.22 | unfo- | MADNESS?! THIS IS SPARTAAAAAAAA |
| 05:56.51 | unfo- | that would've been so much better if i could've done /kick Fisker msghere |
| 05:56.52 | unfo- | ;P |
| 05:56.57 | zenzio | I wouldn't call that a great line, but it is a cool pun. TC would approve |
| 05:58.31 | Fisker | yeah i will destroy you unfo- |
| 05:58.57 | unfo- | Fisker, lol. /cast bubble |
| 05:59.07 | unfo- | ./flex |
| 05:59.49 | zenzio | "Seems everything is the Facebook of something" - http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/67143 |
| 06:00.08 | zenzio | whenever someone uses that comparison, I dismiss them immediately |
| 06:00.32 | Fisker | github for lesbians |
| 06:01.00 | unfo- | you piqued my interest. hot girl on girl pair programming action? |
| 06:02.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Guardix-lagtop (~Martin@edu-clients.nat.esnord.dk) |
| 06:05.01 | Fisker | http://xkcd.com/624/ |
| 06:06.13 | Fisker | makes noises |
| 06:07.09 | unfo- | hmmm. Fisker frame #2 -- isn't that what most of twitter is comprised of: single (male) adults (geeks) :) |
| 06:07.34 | unfo- | also lolz |
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| 06:09.04 | Fisker | :E |
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| 06:35.39 | Amarande | hmm, so poking on cata.wowhead |
| 06:35.59 | Amarande | Socket bonuses and procs that give AP or Spellpower are going to remain as is? |
| 06:35.59 | Humbedooh | did it poke back? |
| 06:36.57 | Amarande | e.g., WFS doesn't look like it's changed at all and Aurora of Transcendence has had its normal SP converted to Int, but the socket bonus is still SP |
| 06:39.33 | nebula | hope they're still working on updating armor, warrior 2pc won't do anything for fury as it stands now |
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| 06:50.13 | Amarande | nebula, some LK tier sets just give better bonuses for some specs |
| 06:50.18 | zenzio | "Also I wish Pandarens can bring a epic new class, Monk, as their fascinating gift to WoW. " |
| 06:50.22 | Amarande | like how 4pt9 is meh for destro but a dream for aff |
| 06:50.29 | zenzio | dude... people... this is Warcraft, not Kung Fu Panda |
| 06:50.36 | nebula | its not a matter of better, it does nothing because fury can't get the talent |
| 06:59.30 | Amarande | nebula: is this t9, t10, or t11? |
| 06:59.36 | nebula | t10 |
| 06:59.39 | Amarande | I'm foggy on warrior set bonuses |
| 06:59.47 | Amarande | 2pt10 warrior does? |
| 06:59.54 | nebula | 2pc is dmg bonus on deep wounds |
| 07:00.03 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 07:00.22 | nebula | deep wounds ticks, rather |
| 07:01.47 | Amarande | ah. |
| 07:01.53 | Amarande | yeah that's an arms talent isn't it? |
| 07:02.18 | nebula | yea, its second tier so you can get it by 85, but at 80 you don't have enough points |
| 07:03.25 | Amarande | yeah, I'm not sure how much they're really meaning to keep 80 balanced in 4.0 |
| 07:03.34 | Amarande | they didn't really put much effort into keeping 70 balanced in 3.0 |
| 07:03.35 | Amarande | or 60 in 2.0 |
| 07:03.54 | Motig | mangleeee |
| 07:04.08 | Amarande | but yeah, some set bonuses have always been meh to useless for some builds |
| 07:04.19 | Amarande | like for Destruction, 4pt9 is something you get and then move on from, since it only affects Immo |
| 07:04.49 | Amarande | but for Affliction, 4pt9 is something you seriously have to consider holding onto even when individual ICC upgrades become available and have to Rawr to check whether they're really upgrades, because it's +10% to both Corruption AND UA |
| 07:05.42 | Amarande | hence why I turned down a glove upgrade in ICC tonight when I went in an alts run on the lock |
| 07:05.57 | Amarande | one, the 4pt9 thing, and two, my T9 gloves are the 245, so an upgrade to 251 isn't earth shaking |
| 07:05.58 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar_work (~sylvanaar@tut.qvssoftware.com) |
| 07:06.39 | Amarande | 'course then I got a shoulder upgrade later on so now I'm down to three pieces and will need to get the robe with JPs later on |
| 07:06.58 | Amarande | http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Turalyon&cn=Alvaerin |
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| 07:07.43 | *** part/#wowuidev mitchnull (~mitchnull@catv3EC944A1.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 07:10.08 | Amarande | btw, is there a 4.0 UI survival guide posted yet? |
| 07:14.06 | angayelle | not that i know but there is some sort of report there http://www.wowinterface.com/betaguide.php |
| 07:17.41 | Amarande | I'm mostly wondering which of the addons I use regularly are going to be ready when 4.0 hits |
| 07:17.46 | Amarande | especially the ones related to my core UI |
| 07:17.56 | Amarande | I can go without, say, Auctioneer for a few days, but I'll go insane without Bartender |
| 07:18.45 | Amarande | http://www.lunasanguine.com/images/WoWScrnShot_100410_235249.jpg <--- is my current UI |
| 07:19.21 | Jerub | i don't use a bar addon at all |
| 07:19.23 | Xinhuan | who updates that list |
| 07:19.23 | Xinhuan | lol |
| 07:19.35 | Amarande | so I basically need Bartender, Pitbull, Prat, QuestGuru, Omen, Bazooka, and SexyMap for the core UI appearance |
| 07:19.54 | Amarande | oh, and TipTac |
| 07:20.00 | Xinhuan | i can tell you omen works perfectly with 0 lines of code change on cata |
| 07:20.14 | Xinhuan | all i need is update 2 digits in a toc file |
| 07:20.17 | Xinhuan | :P |
| 07:21.44 | Amarande | also: man, sometimes one can really be out of the zone on a given week |
| 07:21.54 | Amarande | we got Kingslayer Monday ... and last night we had possibly our worst raid week ever |
| 07:21.58 | *** join/#wowuidev the-golem (~Darrin@c-98-255-201-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 07:22.29 | Amarande | pretty much went like so ... we tried heroic Marrow, and got our butts kicked a few times, so we gave up and went back to normal and curbstomped him as usual |
| 07:22.45 | Amarande | then we did normal LDW, heroic gunship, normal Saurfang easily |
| 07:22.53 | Amarande | then we curbstomped the Blood wing and were generally feeling good |
| 07:23.20 | Amarande | then we got Festergut, and moved on to Rotface. Tried him on Heroic and couldn't get it ... then we proceeded to fail on Rotface *and* Valithria on normal |
| 07:23.39 | Amarande | we think Rotface may have been bugged up somehow after the heroic attempts but we aren't sure |
| 07:24.51 | angayelle | man that's some hardcore raiding you have there |
| 07:24.56 | angayelle | ehe |
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| 07:29.51 | Amarande | angayelle: we got LK down Monday night learning both P2 and P3 in the same evening. :) |
| 07:30.15 | Amarande | apparently this week just wasn't going our way ... I guess we just went out of the zone |
| 07:30.32 | angayelle | fast learning, nice |
| 07:30.42 | zenzio | well it is pretty difficult to raid in a different zone |
| 07:30.47 | angayelle | it happens some times |
| 07:30.51 | Humbedooh | festernoob is easy as long as you keep to the tactics |
| 07:31.09 | Humbedooh | melee stands behind either left or right leg, never in the middle, never under his feet |
| 07:31.20 | Humbedooh | when goo spawns, they run to the other leg instead |
| 07:31.28 | Humbedooh | and then back once goo is gone |
| 07:31.36 | Amarande | Festergut we were fine with |
| 07:31.42 | Amarande | Rotface, we just had things keep going wrong |
| 07:31.45 | angayelle | i guess he/she was speaking of normal mode for fester |
| 07:31.53 | Amarande | the main thing we noticed was that the tank kiting the goop blob wasn't able to hold aggro for some reason |
| 07:32.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Guardix-lagtop (~Martin@edu-clients.nat.esnord.dk) |
| 07:32.13 | Humbedooh | you have to hit the big blob to keep aggro |
| 07:32.24 | Amarande | we think the goo blob on heroic might be resetting its aggro table each time it merges with a new ooze |
| 07:32.27 | Humbedooh | what class was kiting the blob? |
| 07:32.31 | Amarande | I can't remember now |
| 07:32.39 | Humbedooh | it should be a paladin |
| 07:32.43 | Amarande | we were about to get desperate enough for me to go back to dala and get my tank set |
| 07:32.56 | Amarande | DKs are pretty good at it too, but I was the only DK and I was DPS |
| 07:32.56 | Humbedooh | or maybe a dk |
| 07:32.57 | nebula | you don't need tank gear to kite the big ooze, lol |
| 07:33.03 | Humbedooh | but rariors and druids is a no go |
| 07:33.08 | nebula | i can do it on warrior with just tc |
| 07:33.09 | Humbedooh | warriors* |
| 07:33.16 | nebula | with the tc glyph |
| 07:33.16 | Amarande | I think our tanking pair was a paladin and druid that night |
| 07:33.20 | Humbedooh | well you do if you have to run through all the goo :p |
| 07:33.29 | nebula | hof, yo |
| 07:33.53 | nebula | we usually have a dk do it, though |
| 07:36.26 | Amarande | Comical was in the end ... after we had resigned ourselves to a wipe, I tried to tab target to the ooze and get it the hell out of the raid ... and ended up kiting rotface instead of the ooze ... oops heh |
| 07:36.48 | Amarande | I'm starting to think tab targeting is just a really, really bad thing :P |
| 07:37.30 | angayelle | can't stop doing it |
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| 07:39.37 | angayelle | i'm thinking about something now, just tell me if it's possible |
| 07:40.50 | zenzio | a lot of people think about things, so it's completely possible |
| 07:40.59 | Amarande | anything is possible |
| 07:41.08 | Amarande | remember, the eigenstate vector is fully unreadable until it collapses |
| 07:41.22 | angayelle | i use magictargets, it create a list of the mobs fighting us, we can't click on the frames created (as it's forbidden by blizz) but could i make it so it gives automatically a shortcut to them so i could target them quickly ? |
| 07:41.56 | angayelle | like there is 4 mobs, than key 1-4 are like shortcuts to target them |
| 07:42.01 | angayelle | then* |
| 07:42.51 | angayelle | one die, hte list is then shortened to 1-3 |
| 07:44.14 | Amarande | that sounds like something that blizzard would have thought of and forbidden |
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| 07:44.33 | zenzio | http://failbook.failblog.org/2010/10/07/funny-facebook-fails-nerd-burn/ |
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| 07:51.48 | Amarande | (WoW developers) "also state that it is highly unlikely an alchemist will discover more than four recipes in a lifetime." |
| 07:51.58 | Amarande | is there indeed a diminishing % chance of a discovery based on the number you've had before? |
| 07:52.01 | Amarande | or is random number random? |
| 07:52.31 | zenzio | four recipes period, or of a certain kind? |
| 07:53.01 | Amarande | zenzio: that's all the alchemy guide I was looking at said |
| 07:53.30 | Amarande | which reminds me, one of these days I need to go gather the mats for my hunter's alchemy grind |
| 07:53.42 | Amarande | which is feeling a lot more fun than her LW grind |
| 07:53.52 | Amarande | because I'm just boggling at just how much leather you need to grind LW |
| 07:53.59 | Amarande | I thought blacksmithing was bad ;) |
| 07:54.16 | Jerub | Amarande: bah, LW is easy to level |
| 07:54.21 | Jerub | you just level it at the same time as doing crap |
| 07:54.28 | Jerub | the mats are free |
| 07:54.32 | Jerub | it's like tailoring |
| 07:54.42 | Jerub | powerlevelling it? that's hard |
| 07:54.52 | Amarande | assuming you're skinning on that toon as well :) |
| 07:54.53 | Amarande | which I'm not |
| 07:55.01 | Amarande | I already have a skinner, why do it again |
| 07:55.29 | Jerub | because it's got excellent synergy with LW? |
| 07:55.39 | Jerub | sounds like you like doing stupid things amarande |
| 07:56.10 | Amarande | Jerub: I tend to avoid duplication of professions between alts :) |
| 07:56.27 | Jerub | Amarande: and so you collected and stored all your leather on your skinning toon for your LW toon, right? |
| 07:56.30 | Jerub | :) |
| 07:56.37 | Amarande | nope, since I rolled my LW toon a lot later |
| 07:56.44 | Jerub | see figure one |
| 07:56.59 | Amarande | plus, my skinning toon is a DK, so I only skinned what I needed to catch up to 300 before outland anyway |
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| 08:55.06 | angayelle | is there a way to have a frame fade in /out instead of using frame:Show and frame:Hide ? |
| 08:55.35 | Humbedooh | sure |
| 08:56.12 | angayelle | i thought about setting a timer with an alpha setting but i want my whole frame fade and can't seem to find the exact command in xml |
| 08:56.30 | angayelle | not exactly the command but you get the point |
| 08:56.31 | Humbedooh | frame:SetAlpha(0);frame:Show();frame:SetScript("OnUpdate", function() local x = frame:GetAlpha(); if ( x >= 0.99 ) then frame:SetScript("OnUpdate", nil); else x = x + 0.1; frame:SetAlpha(x); end end); |
| 08:57.00 | Humbedooh | or something similar |
| 08:57.43 | angayelle | gosh smiley made it all garbaged |
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| 08:58.29 | angayelle | can you repost it ? |
| 08:58.32 | Humbedooh | http://paste.wowace.com/2547/ |
| 08:59.08 | angayelle | much better , thanks a lot, gonna work with that |
| 09:00.03 | angayelle | it will fade the frame based on hte onupdate interval right ? |
| 09:01.46 | Humbedooh | ye, but you could make it fade over a certain amount of time as well |
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| 09:03.46 | jnwhiteh | just track how much time has passed, and how much you want it to fade over a given period of time. simple math ftw =) |
| 09:05.02 | Humbedooh | http://paste.wowace.com/2548/ or something |
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| 09:13.30 | unfo- | anyone recall if altoholic shows the total /played across chars? |
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| 09:22.31 | Adys | Shirik? |
| 09:22.32 | Adys | you here? |
| 09:22.47 | Jamash | he's hiding |
| 09:23.04 | industrial | fucking autohotkey, how does it work |
| 09:23.06 | Adys | im looking for someone who's worked at a customs office before |
| 09:23.08 | industrial | Anyone have experience with it? |
| 09:23.09 | Adys | or is familiar with customs |
| 09:23.14 | Adys | industrial: some, why? |
| 09:23.27 | ZorbaTHut | industrial, imagine the screaming of a thousand flayed cats |
| 09:23.33 | ZorbaTHut | that's you, after dealing with AHK's scripting language. |
| 09:23.36 | industrial | yeah |
| 09:23.56 | industrial | https://gist.github.com/e33f9af040fda0f50597 |
| 09:23.58 | ZorbaTHut | I have a friend who literally wrote an entire lua-based AHK replacement solely so he didn't have to use AHK. |
| 09:24.01 | Jamash | Is AHK the one that doesn't work with windows GTK programs no matter how hard you try? |
| 09:24.01 | industrial | this does nothing. at all. |
| 09:24.18 | industrial | I need it to work with wow and send keystrokes. nothing more. |
| 09:24.41 | industrial | (So I can continue eating chips while DPSing) |
| 09:24.45 | Adys | industrial: just use python :P |
| 09:24.47 | Jamash | banned |
| 09:24.51 | industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:25.45 | Adys | industrial: http://dpaste.com/254915/ |
| 09:26.01 | industrial | well this one works fine but only on keypress https://gist.github.com/e33f9af040fda0f50597/d2f3c54ea74c2c5424dca9874b604bec09660b21 |
| 09:26.36 | industrial | Adys: cool, will do |
| 09:26.45 | Adys | industrial: you need python-virtkey installed |
| 09:27.41 | Jamash | why not set up a castsequence macro and a drinky bird? |
| 09:29.11 | industrial | cuz my rotation is priority based |
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| 10:32.22 | zenzio | http://www.27bslash6.com/foggot.html - lol |
| 10:38.35 | Elkano | nice catch zenzio ^^ |
| 10:40.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Mike-N-Go (~Mike-N-Go@64.193.93.197) |
| 10:41.38 | jnwhiteh | indeed =) |
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| 10:48.10 | zenzio | I just love that picture in the first reply... I wonder if that would work on trolls too |
| 10:50.05 | Mike-N-Go | Hello all! |
| 10:50.40 | Mike-N-Go | How are we doing today? |
| 10:55.38 | Mike-N-Go | What does the premission -rwxrwxrwx+ mean? |
| 10:56.06 | Motig | lol! zenzio |
| 10:56.26 | *** part/#wowuidev Mike-N-Go (~Mike-N-Go@64.193.93.197) |
| 10:56.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Mike-N-Go (~Mike-N-Go@64.193.93.197) |
| 10:56.40 | *** part/#wowuidev Mike-N-Go (~Mike-N-Go@64.193.93.197) |
| 10:56.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Mike-N-Go (~Mike-N-Go@64.193.93.197) |
| 11:00.12 | angayelle | Dont bothering emailing me again becasue I wont read it. |
| 11:00.12 | angayelle | From: David Thorne |
| 11:00.12 | angayelle | Date: Friday 3 September 2010 7.12pm |
| 11:00.12 | angayelle | To: George Lewis |
| 11:00.12 | angayelle | Subject: dneck |
| 11:00.13 | angayelle | Yes you will. |
| 11:00.13 | angayelle | From: George Lewis |
| 11:00.14 | angayelle | Date: Friday 3 September 2010 7.16pm |
| 11:00.14 | angayelle | To: David Thorne |
| 11:00.15 | angayelle | Subject: Re: dneck |
| 11:00.15 | angayelle | No I fucking wont fag |
| 11:00.16 | angayelle | OOPS |
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| 11:00.19 | angayelle | sowwy |
| 11:00.28 | angayelle | very funny nonetheless |
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| 11:05.06 | Motig | zenzio that website is hillarious |
| 11:05.27 | Motig | this one too: http://www.27bslash6.com/missy.html |
| 11:06.03 | zenzio | hehe, yeah :-) |
| 11:11.06 | angayelle | omg making me laughing in the office is not nice att all |
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| 11:12.52 | unfo- | zenzio++ for 24b/6 |
| 11:13.09 | unfo- | erm 27b/6 even :D |
| 11:22.05 | krka | that's so mean, yet funny |
| 11:24.15 | krka | i liked the pie chart more |
| 11:25.18 | zenzio | he has many good ones |
| 11:26.42 | amro | Mike-N-Go: it's uuugggaaa with uuu being read, write, execute for user, ggg for group, aaa for all |
| 11:27.07 | Mike-N-Go | My problem is the '-' restricted. |
| 11:27.42 | Mike-N-Go | How do I batch unrestrict files recursively in the mac terminal? |
| 11:28.04 | amro | that first - is d for directories |
| 11:28.27 | amro | you want to do something like chmod -R u+rw somedir |
| 11:28.28 | Mike-N-Go | Right now, I am attempting to patch my WoW.. it has been since December that I touched this folder. |
| 11:28.35 | amro | that gives the owner read/write access |
| 11:29.00 | amro | if it's owned by another user, just do chown -R myuser:myuser somedir |
| 11:29.42 | Mike-N-Go | Several files in my wow directory are flagged with '-' and will not delete for the patch. " The file "/Applications/World of Warcraft/Data/enUS/Documentation/ReadMe/EULA.html" could not be renamed to "/Applications/World of Warcraft/Data/enUS/Documentation/ReadMe/EULA.html.Trash". If this problem persists, you may be able to solve it by uninstalling and then reinstalling the game. If you are unable to correct this problem, please contact Blizzard Tech |
| 11:29.42 | Mike-N-Go | Support. (ConflictManager::ResolveConflicts/3)" |
| 11:30.29 | Mike-N-Go | And I have been retrying and manually setting the permissions in the finder; several times.. |
| 11:30.55 | Mike-N-Go | I think the problem is that I moved my wow folder to a new harddrive and it messed up the premissions. |
| 11:31.25 | amro | what do you mean by flagged with -? |
| 11:32.22 | Mike-N-Go | Sorry, it is 4 am here and I been at this the past few hours. |
| 11:32.32 | amro | show me the output of ls -l in one of those directories |
| 11:33.01 | Mike-N-Go | The problem is the premissions of several files are messed up, and will not delete without a password. |
| 11:34.16 | amro | pastebin the output of ls -l in a directory containing some of these problem files |
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| 11:35.04 | Mike-N-Go | -rwxrwxrwx+ is one example |
| 11:35.37 | Mike-N-Go | Sorry if I might be saying something wrong, a bit rusty with perms. |
| 11:37.15 | amro | I mean give me something like http://pastebin.ca/1957482 |
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| 11:41.35 | Mike-N-Go | amro: http://wowuidev.pastey.net/141309 |
| 11:48.44 | Mike-N-Go | amro: Do you understand what my problem is? |
| 11:50.28 | amro | Mike-N-Go: sorry, I was at lunch. I'm not sure, is your user macbookpro? |
| 11:50.45 | Mike-N-Go | Sadly, yes, that is my user. |
| 11:51.07 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 11:51.35 | foxlit | "Santa Claus is your parents" |
| 11:52.02 | Mike-N-Go | My problem is that several files in my wow dir demand a password to be deleted, and the patch install does not like that and halts. |
| 11:52.14 | amro | I haven't seen that + before |
| 11:52.23 | amro | is that some kind of password protection? |
| 11:52.35 | foxlit | Mike-N-Go: recursively claim ownership and fix permissions? |
| 11:52.39 | Mike-N-Go | So my question is: How to I batch change my files to like me? |
| 11:52.51 | Mike-N-Go | Err.. I mean.. .. |
| 11:53.04 | foxlit | [windows? linux?] |
| 11:53.07 | Mike-N-Go | mac |
| 11:54.20 | foxlit | Know of any particular file that is giving you problems? |
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| 11:55.24 | zenzio | http://hintsforums.macworld.com/showthread.php?t=92505 |
| 11:55.35 | foxlit | I'm thinking you should ls it and see what unix permissions are set. |
| 11:55.36 | Mike-N-Go | There are many. |
| 11:55.37 | zenzio | the plus sign seems to indicate extra security stuff |
| 11:55.47 | zenzio | foxlit: he has |
| 11:55.59 | Mike-N-Go | foxlit: http://wowuidev.pastey.net/141309 |
| 11:56.10 | foxlit | zenzio: I have no scrollback :) |
| 11:56.18 | amro | yeah, figur eout what that + is and get rid of it |
| 11:56.21 | zenzio | foxlit: that's why I told you he has |
| 11:57.03 | Mike-N-Go | The problem is likely from dragging them over from a different hard drive, and perms got messed up bad. |
| 11:58.18 | amro | permissions are probably fine, it's that + sign I'm worried about |
| 11:58.20 | Mike-N-Go | When the patch halts, I get a message like " The file "/Volumes/Storage/old MBP/Applications/World of Warcraft/World of Warcraft Launcher.app/Contents/Resources/SkinLauncher.mpq" could not be renamed to "/Volumes/Storage/old MBP/Applications/World of Warcraft/World of Warcraft Launcher.app/Contents/Resources/SkinLauncher.mpq.Trash". If this problem persists, you may be able to solve it by uninstalling and then reinstalling the game. If you are unable |
| 11:58.20 | Mike-N-Go | correct this problem, please contact Blizzard Technical Support. (ConflictManager::ResolveConflicts/3)" |
| 11:58.27 | zenzio | New with Leopard is the use of ACLs. When you do 'ls -l' on a file or folder in Leopard, a + at the end of the permissions tells you that there are ACLs active on that file or folder. Use the "-e" option to 'ls' to see the ACLs. |
| 11:58.37 | zenzio | Mike-N-Go: try ls -l -e |
| 11:58.51 | Mike-N-Go | kk |
| 11:59.13 | zenzio | or should that be -le? I'm feeling slow at the moment |
| 11:59.23 | foxlit | doesn't matter |
| 11:59.26 | amro | both work zenzio |
| 11:59.28 | foxlit | (they're equivalent) |
| 11:59.51 | zenzio | come to think of it, I think I do that differently from program to program o_O |
| 11:59.58 | Mike-N-Go | http://wowuidev.pastey.net/141313 |
| 12:00.21 | Mike-N-Go | Also, it is 5am, and I been at this for a few hours. |
| 12:01.22 | Mike-N-Go | So basically there is some extra security that requires a password to be put in to rename/trash these files. |
| 12:01.29 | zenzio | I wonder if renaming to .Trash counts as deleting |
| 12:01.34 | amro | zenzio: there's a standard library for parsing those |
| 12:02.20 | foxlit | Mike-N-Go: try chmod -N file |
| 12:02.38 | foxlit | should that work, chmod -R -N * |
| 12:02.59 | foxlit | [while in one of your affected directories, don't want to wipe them off /everything/] |
| 12:03.14 | zenzio | hehe |
| 12:03.35 | Mike-N-Go | How do you mean? |
| 12:03.56 | foxlit | cd /Volumes/Storage/old\ MBP/Applications/World\ of\ Warcraft/World\ of\ Warcraft.app/Contents/Resources |
| 12:04.02 | foxlit | chmod -N BlizzardComponent.xml |
| 12:04.08 | foxlit | ls -l -e BlizzardComponent.xml |
| 12:04.41 | Mike-N-Go | There are countless files other then in the resources folder that have this problem; just pasted that for an example. |
| 12:04.51 | foxlit | That's okay. |
| 12:05.04 | amro | do it at the root of your wow folder |
| 12:05.11 | Mike-N-Go | Yup yup |
| 12:05.14 | foxlit | The point is to check whether the flag actually removes the ACLs properly |
| 12:05.37 | foxlit | If it does, you can just do cd /Wherever/ && chmod -R -N * which will recursively remove them from everything |
| 12:06.06 | Mike-N-Go | It removed the flag when I 'ls' |
| 12:06.27 | foxlit | so now it's just -rwxrwxrwx 1 macbookpro staff 214 Dec 14 2009 BlizzardComponent.xml ? |
| 12:06.41 | Mike-N-Go | + gone |
| 12:06.53 | Mike-N-Go | -rwxrwxrwx 1 macbookpro staff 214 Dec 14 2009 BlizzardComponent.xml |
| 12:06.53 | Mike-N-Go | drwxrwxrwx 3 macbookpro staff 102 Dec 14 2009 DivX Gaming.component |
| 12:07.07 | Mike-N-Go | The update was secuessful! |
| 12:07.19 | Mike-N-Go | hugs. |
| 12:08.04 | Mike-N-Go | Thank you all for the help! |
| 12:09.58 | Mike-N-Go | I am glad that I spent 5 hours trying to get this to work. I learned how to fix this problem :) |
| 12:11.18 | Mike-N-Go | Thanks amro, foxlit, zenzio~ |
| 12:11.20 | Mike-N-Go | ! |
| 12:12.09 | foxlit | :) |
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| 12:15.49 | mikma | haste: http://pics.kuvaton.com/bshit/portal.jpg |
| 12:16.57 | krka | so if portals were possible, then the human race would go extinct? |
| 12:17.17 | foxlit | moo? |
| 12:17.19 | mikma | http://pics.kuvaton.com/bshit/is_facebook_a_drug.jpg |
| 12:18.35 | mikma | http://pics.kuvaton.com/bshit/7eb917e515b4c6bc5d8aa748d7418518.jpg |
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| 12:26.22 | Mike-N-Go | Hail, mikma! |
| 12:26.23 | haste | mikma: http://fukung.net/v/32930/875a85e29fc4beb9e93342cad00af5ad.gif |
| 12:27.09 | mikma | mike-n-go: hail mike-n-go |
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| 12:27.33 | mikma | haste: uh, awesum |
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| 12:31.15 | Thunder_Child | zenzio: no, that was not a good pun. i do not approve. |
| 12:31.45 | zenzio | you never appreciate puns, that's why I include you in them! |
| 12:31.48 | zenzio | you know this by now |
| 12:32.09 | Thunder_Child | well, that was not really, it was not a play on words |
| 12:32.17 | Thunder_Child | since the word was being used in the same manner |
| 12:32.31 | zenzio | you're right |
| 12:33.19 | zenzio | http://icanhascheezburger.com/2010/10/08/funny-pictures-poorly-planned/ - our cats used to love lying on top of the hamster cage |
| 12:34.29 | Thunder_Child | odd, that was not written in lolspeak |
| 12:35.23 | zenzio | I guess they chose not to since it wasn't really the cats speaking |
| 12:36.19 | Thunder_Child | seems out of place |
| 12:36.32 | zenzio | also true |
| 12:47.06 | Mike-N-Go | " The patch "mac-game-hdfiles\World of Warcraft.app\Contents\MacOS\World of Warcraft" could not be applied. (Invalid source file size: expected 26479252, actual 26409316.) If this problem persists, you may be able to solve it by uninstalling and then reinstalling the game. If you are unable to correct this problem, please contact Blizzard Technical Support. (BNUpdate::PTCApply)" |
| 12:47.11 | Mike-N-Go | weeps. |
| 12:47.31 | zenzio | :-/ |
| 12:47.39 | zenzio | sounds like you may have an easier time reinstalling |
| 12:48.05 | Mike-N-Go | I have about 1 Mb/s conection.. |
| 12:48.48 | zenzio | did you copy or move the files from the old disk? |
| 12:50.34 | Mike-N-Go | zenzio: That would take all the fun out of it! |
| 12:50.48 | Mike-N-Go | Yes, the current copy is a drag and drop from an old disk. |
| 12:51.36 | zenzio | if you could find out which file it's talking about, you could check if the old file is the same size as the one one the disk you copied to |
| 12:52.08 | zenzio | anyhow, did the Blizzard downloader choose the patch itself, or did you download it manually? |
| 12:52.38 | Mike-N-Go | Via Bliz downlaoder |
| 12:52.56 | zenzio | hm, then it should be the right one. I'm out of idea |
| 12:52.56 | zenzio | +s |
| 12:53.18 | Legorol | why not take out your original DVDs and reinstall? |
| 12:56.38 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 12:57.42 | Mike-N-Go | Legorol: I don't know exactly where they are.. |
| 13:00.11 | Mike-N-Go | Found the behind the seens dvd, and soundtrack in my collector's edition; but I don't know where the instal dvd is.. |
| 13:03.14 | theorbtwo | When you've done a few patches, burn the whole thing to DVD. |
| 13:03.20 | theorbtwo | Then you won't need to do it again. |
| 13:04.53 | Mike-N-Go | It has been since December since I played the game. |
| 13:05.09 | Mike-N-Go | And my current build is a drag and drop from another hard drive. |
| 13:05.53 | Mike-N-Go | sighs. |
| 13:06.39 | Mike-N-Go | I extracted the World of Warcraft.app from the mpq backup folder with http://www.devklog.net/2007/02/09/mpq-extractor-10/.. The patch "base\signaturefile" could not be applied. (Invalid source file size: expected 3131378, actual 3140015.) If this problem persists, you may be able to solve it by uninstalling and then reinstalling the game. If you are unable to correct this problem, please contact Blizzard Technical Support. (BNUpdate::PTCApply) |
| 13:06.52 | Mike-N-Go | My computer hates me :( |
| 13:07.17 | theorbtwo | Ugh. |
| 13:15.14 | jnwhiteh | haha |
| 13:15.19 | jnwhiteh | "I should mention that 'Beginning LUA with World of Warcraft' is by FAR my favourite book to read. ^_^" |
| 13:15.25 | jnwhiteh | me: I should mention that 'Beginning LUA with World of Warcraft' is by FAR my favourite book to read. ^_^ |
| 13:15.27 | jnwhiteh | err |
| 13:15.31 | jnwhiteh | me: Unless I'm mistaken, that's not my book (or the book associated with this site), but I'm glad you're enjoying it nonetheless... |
| 13:15.48 | haste | what a horrible answer jnwhiteh ! |
| 13:15.57 | haste | you should have said: It's written Lua, not LUA |
| 13:16.03 | jnwhiteh | lol |
| 13:16.18 | Humbedooh | tell that to lua_bot :< |
| 13:16.30 | jnwhiteh | since when has lua_bot said "LUA"? |
| 13:16.42 | Humbedooh | he should be called Lua_bot! |
| 13:16.52 | haste | lua is okey, LUA isn't |
| 13:16.52 | jnwhiteh | no? |
| 13:16.54 | jnwhiteh | its not a proper noun |
| 13:16.58 | Humbedooh | it is! |
| 13:17.01 | Humbedooh | Lua means moon :( |
| 13:17.02 | jnwhiteh | no, it's not. |
| 13:17.04 | jnwhiteh | yes |
| 13:17.06 | jnwhiteh | which is not a proper noun |
| 13:17.11 | jnwhiteh | lua |
| 13:17.14 | jnwhiteh | Lua if it begins a sentence |
| 13:17.18 | theorbtwo | It's the name of a language, which makes it a proper noun. |
| 13:17.19 | jnwhiteh | both work =) |
| 13:17.31 | jnwhiteh | caps in irc is fail. |
| 13:17.33 | jnwhiteh | =) |
| 13:17.51 | Humbedooh | it's not really up to me or you to decide |
| 13:17.59 | Humbedooh | it is how the author tells us it is |
| 13:18.02 | jnwhiteh | ... |
| 13:18.05 | krka | ORLY jnwhiteh! |
| 13:18.22 | haste | fail KRKA |
| 13:18.32 | Humbedooh | and the authors say Lua! |
| 13:18.37 | jnwhiteh | yes |
| 13:18.39 | jnwhiteh | so? |
| 13:18.45 | Humbedooh | so it should be Lua ;> |
| 13:18.49 | jnwhiteh | your name is probably not Humbedooh |
| 13:18.52 | jnwhiteh | yet you use that on IRC |
| 13:19.04 | Humbedooh | that's not a valid point |
| 13:19.11 | jnwhiteh | not valid for this argument |
| 13:19.13 | jnwhiteh | but a point nonetheless =) |
| 13:19.14 | Thunder_Child | pfft, my legal name is Thunder_Child |
| 13:19.18 | jnwhiteh | I don't use caps in IRC |
| 13:19.20 | jnwhiteh | not in nicknames |
| 13:19.21 | jnwhiteh | period |
| 13:19.24 | jnwhiteh | so lua_bot is lua_bot |
| 13:19.26 | jnwhiteh | =) |
| 13:19.32 | jnwhiteh | I'll also have you note |
| 13:19.33 | Humbedooh | ~whalenuke jnwhiteh |
| 13:19.33 | purl | ACTION dons her radiation cloak and tinted glasses while a highly intelligent whale named Ray precipitates critical mass for uncontrolled nuclear fission around jnwhiteh with his mind powers. |
| 13:19.35 | jnwhiteh | that the IRC channel is #lua |
| 13:19.37 | jnwhiteh | not #Lua |
| 13:19.40 | Mike-N-Go | Why don't you both agree that your right? |
| 13:19.45 | jnwhiteh | although caps are most certainly allowed in IRC |
| 13:19.51 | Humbedooh | because we're fascist gnomes, Mike-N-Go |
| 13:20.05 | Humbedooh | we refuse to accept defeat! |
| 13:20.09 | jnwhiteh | psh, speak for yourself alliance scum. |
| 13:20.13 | haste | ~hubris |
| 13:20.13 | purl | HUBRIS: Excessive pride, the sort of thing Zeus zaps you for. Also the quality that makes you write (and maintain) programs that other people won't want to say bad things about. Hence, the third great virtue of a programmer. |
| 13:20.15 | mikma | wat |
| 13:20.21 | Mike-N-Go | Because you both are set in your ways; you need not convince each other your viewpoint, least you want to argue, if that is the case, please, do ensue. |
| 13:20.25 | mikma | jnwhiteh = hordenoob |
| 13:20.39 | jnwhiteh | Mike-N-Go: this isn't a real argument, sorry if that was confusing for you. |
| 13:20.45 | jnwhiteh | We're essentially just sparring and mocking each other |
| 13:20.48 | *** join/#wowuidev mitchnull (~mitchnull@catv3EC944A1.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 13:20.51 | jnwhiteh | but #lua clinches it for me, I win. |
| 13:21.02 | Humbedooh | lua> jnwhiteh + Humbedooh == pissing_contest |
| 13:21.02 | Mike-N-Go | What even is 'this'? |
| 13:21.02 | lua_bot | Humbedooh: luabot:1: attempt to perform arithmetic on global 'jnwhiteh' (a nil value) |
| 13:21.06 | Humbedooh | pft |
| 13:21.16 | jnwhiteh | I AM NOT A GLOBAL |
| 13:21.20 | jnwhiteh | are you calling me fat? |
| 13:21.22 | jnwhiteh | *cry( |
| 13:21.30 | theorbtwo | LUA> "I CAN YELL!" |
| 13:21.33 | Humbedooh | gently pats jnwhiteh |
| 13:21.40 | jnwhiteh | theorbtwo: too bad its not an acryonym |
| 13:21.44 | theorbtwo | See, doesn't work. |
| 13:21.47 | jnwhiteh | lua_bot refuses to accept your acronymage. |
| 13:21.56 | Humbedooh | Lua> Moo |
| 13:22.04 | Humbedooh | it refused to accept Lua too! |
| 13:22.06 | jnwhiteh | Humbedooh: see #lua |
| 13:22.10 | Humbedooh | pffft |
| 13:22.14 | jnwhiteh | and the name of the commandline program |
| 13:22.20 | Humbedooh | I refuse your refusal to...refuse! |
| 13:22.21 | krka | your mom is so fat, she'd be a global rather than a local value |
| 13:22.26 | jnwhiteh | and the name of the library |
| 13:22.30 | jnwhiteh | krka: ouch! |
| 13:23.01 | jnwhiteh | krka: your mama's so fat, she's composed of ephemeral tables that the garbage collector is unable to collect. |
| 13:23.10 | krka | it's true :( |
| 13:23.22 | amro | your mama's so fat, she's written in java. |
| 13:23.28 | Humbedooh | ;o |
| 13:23.56 | theorbtwo | BTW, the name of the language is Perl, the name of the command-line tool is perl, and the name of the library is libperl. |
| 13:24.06 | mikma | jnwhiteh: your mama's so fat that she stack overflows |
| 13:24.13 | jnwhiteh | weak. |
| 13:24.16 | theorbtwo | The caps on the command-line aren't neccessarly meaningful... |
| 13:24.28 | jnwhiteh | theorbtwo: nor in the IRC channel, not in the IRC bot |
| 13:24.32 | jnwhiteh | which is the whole point of this discussion =) |
| 13:24.36 | jnwhiteh | not that it truly has a point :P |
| 13:24.45 | Humbedooh | I thought you didn't use caps! |
| 13:24.53 | amro | I thought the point was that yo mama is fat |
| 13:25.17 | Humbedooh | just a little overweight |
| 13:25.27 | krka | your mama's so fat, she has a quite high BMI |
| 13:25.36 | jnwhiteh | Humbedooh: I type caps, not in nicknames. |
| 13:25.40 | jnwhiteh | definitely not. |
| 13:25.40 | krka | like, over 30! |
| 13:25.48 | jnwhiteh | over 9000? |
| 13:25.52 | jnwhiteh | no, definitely not. |
| 13:25.56 | amro | shirik or some other microsoftie |
| 13:25.59 | krka | don't think any human could have over 9000 |
| 13:26.03 | amro | where can I find a specific version of the vc runtime? |
| 13:26.06 | theorbtwo | Your mama's so fat, her weight overflows an unsigned char. |
| 13:26.18 | amro | like "Microsoft.VC90.CRT" (9.0.21022.8) |
| 13:26.34 | *** part/#wowuidev mitchnull (~mitchnull@catv3EC944A1.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 13:28.31 | jnwhiteh | would people use global bindings in Clique if I allowed them and they were optional? so you could bind any key sequence to a macro or spell so it would work both in the 3D world and on unit frames? |
| 13:28.44 | foxlit | "warning: this program uses gets(), which is unsafe." |
| 13:28.51 | amro | jnwhiteh: I would |
| 13:28.56 | jnwhiteh | well consider it in |
| 13:28.59 | amro | neat |
| 13:29.03 | jnwhiteh | amro: http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=18181#comments does that sound like it would fill your needs? |
| 13:29.16 | jnwhiteh | still trying to sort out interface, but that's what I would do. |
| 13:31.25 | amro | yep, but I can't test it as I'm not on beta |
| 13:31.50 | jnwhiteh | its not in there yet |
| 13:31.51 | jnwhiteh | and you can PTR |
| 13:31.57 | jnwhiteh | I do all my testing on PTR< because its routinely ahead of beta =) |
| 13:32.06 | jnwhiteh | you should install it, its basically free, all you need is 'red' to play =) |
| 13:32.16 | jnwhiteh | and it uses your base install for its base :P |
| 13:32.37 | amro | 'red'? |
| 13:35.00 | Mike-N-Go | It is a streaming client |
| 13:35.08 | jnwhiteh | yes |
| 13:35.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 13:35.16 | Mike-N-Go | 'red' is when you have barley enough to launch it.. |
| 13:35.21 | amro | ah |
| 13:35.51 | Mike-N-Go | amro: http://www.bluetracker.ru/eu/%D0%A2%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%8B%D0%B9%20%D0%B8%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B9%20%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%80%20(PTR)/15737 |
| 13:36.04 | Kraps | barely* |
| 13:36.05 | Mike-N-Go | Yay, escapseism.. |
| 13:36.16 | Kraps | <--- jerk |
| 13:36.21 | jnwhiteh | Mike-N-Go: red means you have the UI |
| 13:36.23 | jnwhiteh | and that's all you need =) |
| 13:36.34 | jnwhiteh | oh |
| 13:36.38 | jnwhiteh | I meant when you're past red |
| 13:36.41 | jnwhiteh | so just past red into yellow |
| 13:36.49 | jnwhiteh | red means your client is up to date, UI included =) |
| 13:36.53 | Kraps | http://xkcd.com/803/ |
| 13:36.57 | jnwhiteh | <3 streaming client for this reason |
| 13:37.20 | amro | I'll try on a weekday when my ISP isn't so saturated |
| 13:37.29 | amro | took a few minutes to load that wowi page |
| 13:37.57 | jnwhiteh | yikes, that's rough! |
| 13:39.24 | amro | it's not really the bandwidth so much as it is a huge delay when opening a connection |
| 13:39.44 | amro | so any website that loads stuff from several subdomains is a pain to navigate |
| 13:52.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Asland (~Asland@CPE-24-167-226-51.wi.res.rr.com) |
| 13:53.43 | Fisker | slaps jnwhiteh around a bit with a large trout |
| 13:54.28 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 13:54.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Mihau (~asmith@69.73.16.202) |
| 13:55.55 | Mike-N-Go | I give up. |
| 13:56.07 | Mike-N-Go | I'm going to download and instal, fresh. |
| 13:56.31 | Mike-N-Go | Night. |
| 13:59.16 | Kraps | "variety of indigenous puzzles to solve." |
| 13:59.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Ildhesten (~Ildhesten@83.91.89.186) |
| 13:59.54 | Kraps | i dont even... |
| 14:02.18 | Thunder_Child | helps if you give context, or even finish a sentence Kraps |
| 14:02.55 | Kraps | wtf is an "indigenous puzzle" |
| 14:03.04 | Kraps | is it a native? |
| 14:03.31 | Thunder_Child | misspelled from ingenious? |
| 14:03.37 | Kraps | yes |
| 14:04.08 | Thunder_Child | there you go then? |
| 14:04.56 | Kraps | its a pretty big mistake is what i'm saying |
| 14:06.27 | Kraps | also http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2010/10/500x_zergrushour.jpg |
| 14:06.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Mike-N-Go (~Mike-N-Go@64.193.93.197) |
| 14:07.22 | Mike-N-Go | Good news: The beta downloader is FINALY working, lol, it has been a month or two since I got my beta key.. |
| 14:07.38 | Mike-N-Go | Guess I'll be playing in the beat, not live, lol |
| 14:09.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen (~Kevin@149-169-133-96.nat.asu.edu) |
| 14:10.15 | amro | Mike-N-Go: this isn't happening. you've fallen asleep, this is just a dream |
| 14:10.22 | Fisker | Thunder_Child |
| 14:10.26 | Fisker | we could have sex with eachother |
| 14:10.31 | Thunder_Child | we could |
| 14:10.32 | Mike-N-Go | is in a daze. |
| 14:10.34 | Mike-N-Go | ! |
| 14:10.39 | Thunder_Child | but the vast distances might make that a problem |
| 14:11.03 | Fisker | maybe for you |
| 14:11.32 | Kraps | Mike-N-Go: Fisker is the official channel pimp |
| 14:11.58 | Fisker | i'm the official channel awesome |
| 14:12.32 | mikma | kraps: s/pimp/troll/ |
| 14:13.00 | Kraps | mikma: that goes without saying |
| 14:13.14 | Thunder_Child | well, he just said it |
| 14:14.57 | Kraps | *clears throat* |
| 14:15.06 | Kraps | Thunder_Child: he didnt have to |
| 14:15.16 | Thunder_Child | but he did |
| 14:15.43 | Kraps | a mistake by him |
| 14:15.59 | Thunder_Child | nonetheless |
| 14:16.47 | Kraps | its unfortunate |
| 14:17.03 | Kraps | expending the energy to say it |
| 14:17.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Kazie (~Kazie@78.156.121.4) |
| 14:18.36 | Fisker | Kraps Thunder_Child |
| 14:18.50 | Thunder_Child | hey, no three-ways |
| 14:19.05 | Kraps | i could be fun |
| 14:19.11 | Kraps | it* |
| 14:19.12 | Mike-N-Go | You scare me. |
| 14:19.30 | Thunder_Child | dont take much for you does it Mike-N-Go |
| 14:20.23 | Mike-N-Go | When you are not norologically typical, that seems to be the case. |
| 14:20.25 | Fisker | hey Mike-N-Go |
| 14:20.34 | Mike-N-Go | Fisker: Aye? |
| 14:20.47 | Fisker | i said hey |
| 14:20.51 | Fisker | anything wrong with that? |
| 14:21.26 | Mike-N-Go | Why do you ask? |
| 14:22.08 | Fisker | because you seemed to "aye?" at me |
| 14:22.35 | Mike-N-Go | Oh, how do you know this is true? |
| 14:22.44 | Kraps | it looked like an "aye" to me too |
| 14:22.54 | Kraps | but i could be wrong |
| 14:23.13 | Fisker | drugs Kraps |
| 14:23.36 | Kraps | says no to drugs |
| 14:23.39 | Mike-N-Go | " Unrecognized attribute "preload". (AttributeParser::Parse)" says the live installer |
| 14:23.41 | Mike-N-Go | cries. |
| 14:23.45 | Fisker | you can't |
| 14:23.47 | Fisker | i drugs'd you |
| 14:24.18 | foxlit | Error message: Signaled (11) |
| 14:24.24 | Kraps | i no'd the drugs, what'r you gonna do about it? |
| 14:24.52 | Mike-N-Go | ~splat |
| 14:24.52 | purl | Stampede Package Listing and Administration Tool. URL: http://outlyer.org/stampede/splat.html |
| 14:25.58 | Mike-N-Go | Beta client says "Data Verification Error " |
| 14:26.00 | Mike-N-Go | .. |
| 14:26.07 | Mike-N-Go | beta downloader* |
| 14:26.24 | Mike-N-Go | gouges his eyes out. |
| 14:26.54 | Fisker | Mike-N-Go |
| 14:27.08 | Mike-N-Go | ¿Fisker? |
| 14:27.19 | Mike-N-Go | .. |
| 14:27.38 | Mike-N-Go | Fisker: You have some weird ides.. |
| 14:28.55 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 14:28.56 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 14:29.18 | Kraps | mirrors edge is hard for me |
| 14:30.13 | Fisker | my ideas aren't weird Mike-N-Go |
| 14:30.42 | Mike-N-Go | Hello, tekkub: Do you concur or counter Fisker? |
| 14:31.50 | Fisker | tekkub has no say in such matters |
| 14:32.22 | Mike-N-Go | Says who? |
| 14:32.54 | Fisker | the leaders of the free world Mike-N-Go |
| 14:33.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Guardix-lagtop (~Martin@edu-clients.nat.esnord.dk) |
| 14:33.09 | Mike-N-Go | Fisker: Why should I trust you? |
| 14:33.17 | Fisker | because |
| 14:35.46 | Mike-N-Go | 'because' is not a complete sentence? |
| 14:37.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 14:38.17 | Kraps | http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/14870317617/welcome-takralus/ |
| 14:39.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Odlaw (~ozzy@c-98-245-3-204.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 14:39.51 | mikma | i need a icon for resizeable frame (the bottomleft icon that can be used to resize when dragged) |
| 14:40.26 | foxlit | And I'd like to know why my hashtable code segfaults |
| 14:40.50 | foxlit | I mean, it really shouldn't. |
| 14:40.57 | cbreak_work | gdb. |
| 14:41.06 | cbreak_work | probably an invalid pointer |
| 14:41.08 | foxlit | cbreak_work: I don't have a test case |
| 14:41.09 | cbreak_work | or a range issue |
| 14:41.15 | cbreak_work | hmm :/ |
| 14:43.56 | *** join/#wowuidev TMc51 (~TMc@cpe-74-71-49-62.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 14:44.34 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 14:45.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (kalroth@3e6ba979.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 14:47.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~cide@c213-100-51-33.swipnet.se) |
| 14:47.00 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 14:47.20 | Cide | hi |
| 14:50.29 | Mike-N-Go | mikma, I do not understand what you mean? |
| 14:50.33 | Mike-N-Go | Hail, Cide. |
| 14:51.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@adsl-226-118-244.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 14:51.59 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 14:52.15 | amro | new mentalist! |
| 15:04.04 | Xinhuan | ~logs |
| 15:04.04 | purl | All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged. logs are updated daily |
| 15:23.21 | foxlit | gr, found it. And it was all because the i/o spec is lousy and doesn't cover this edge case :/ |
| 15:24.17 | Fisker | slaps foxlit around a bit with a large trout |
| 15:25.29 | cog|work | "Like I say in the video, babies like to be unpredictable. For example, I've never seen him do a bio ball. Except in his diaper." |
| 15:26.19 | TC-Work | if i needed to break up Fri Oct 08 2010 08:25:18 GMT-0700 into sections, would a regex be the best way to go about it? (javascript) |
| 15:26.39 | foxlit | two sections containing? |
| 15:26.50 | TC-Work | not 2, multiple |
| 15:26.54 | TC-Work | eg, after each space |
| 15:27.09 | Fisker | hey TC-Work |
| 15:27.22 | foxlit | presumably there's a split |
| 15:27.43 | TC-Work | thats the return from new Date () |
| 15:27.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Guardix (~Martin@0x5da165ee.hinqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 15:27.48 | TC-Work | brb |
| 15:28.10 | *** part/#wowuidev Sixen (~Kevin@149-169-133-96.nat.asu.edu) |
| 15:29.25 | jnwhiteh | i am tired. |
| 15:29.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Robsato (~Robsato@wetering.xs4all.nl) |
| 15:29.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Zhinjio (~Geo@home.trippy.org) |
| 15:30.28 | Legorol | Does anyone know an addon that can warn me when someone fails on "All you can eat"? (Sindragosa achi, where you can't get 5 stacks of Mystic Buffet) |
| 15:30.28 | Cairenn | Cataclysm Video and Art Contests: http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35329 |
| 15:33.38 | Fisker | imma eating food jnwhiteh |
| 15:33.40 | Cide | hi Shirik |
| 15:34.36 | Fisker | Cairenn does the contest prohibit slave labour? |
| 15:34.49 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 15:38.04 | Mike-N-Go | Can we switch weapons out in combat now, or no? I read somewhere that was disabled. ( I am unable to test, as my client is not patched up.) |
| 15:39.04 | *** join/#wowuidev SeanK (~SeanK@pool-98-117-120-73.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 15:39.18 | cog|work | so i got a charlie horse in my finger while driving to work this morning... |
| 15:39.41 | cog|work | and it's starting to bruise... |
| 15:39.51 | |Jelly| | . . . |
| 15:39.55 | Mike-N-Go | TC-Work: I do not know JavaScript, but might a return in seconds suit your needs? (if javascript has this) |
| 15:40.12 | Mike-N-Go | cog|work: Are you drinking enough water? |
| 15:41.36 | cog|work | generally, yeah... |
| 15:45.06 | amro | TC-Work: just use split |
| 15:45.17 | TC-Work | amro: ok |
| 15:45.21 | Mike-N-Go | cog|work: I recommend you see a chryopractor. |
| 15:47.08 | Shirik | hi Cide |
| 15:47.11 | cog|work | i recommend you see a skeptic |
| 15:47.16 | cog|work | :P |
| 15:47.21 | amro | ~rimshot |
| 15:47.21 | purl | badum-TISH! |
| 15:47.34 | amro | Shirik: help me find a specific version of msvc runtime |
| 15:47.40 | Shirik | don't say 7 |
| 15:48.07 | amro | "Microsoft.VC90.CRT" (9.0.21022.8) |
| 15:48.50 | Shirik | http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?familyid=ba9257ca-337f-4b40-8c14-157cfdffee4e&displaylang=en |
| 15:49.15 | Shirik | or http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=9B2DA534-3E03-4391-8A4D-074B9F2BC1BF |
| 15:50.03 | amro | testing |
| 15:51.32 | Fisker | hey Shirik |
| 15:51.34 | Fisker | jerkmen |
| 15:53.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Borgleader (~borgleade@modemcable253.146-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 15:53.07 | Shirik | batrick, the more I think about it, the more I think signals and systems/DSP is just about drawing pretty pictures |
| 15:53.11 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 15:53.13 | Shirik | http://images.gammatester.com/pics/aabb5a50d28aeaa45cb4c566689d5cb5.png |
| 15:53.13 | Fisker | i just ated food |
| 15:53.22 | Shirik | isn't it pretty? |
| 15:53.54 | cog|work | Shirik: needs moar mandelbrot imo |
| 15:54.27 | amro | thanks that worked Shirik |
| 15:55.01 | Mike-N-Go | cog|work: You doubt Chryo? |
| 15:55.22 | cog|work | Mike-N-Go: depends on what you mean.. |
| 15:55.28 | Fisker | that shit is bananas Shirik |
| 15:55.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (~Lunessa@WoWUIDev/Lunessa) |
| 15:55.39 | cog|work | True chiropracty believes you can cure systemic diseases by adjusting vertibrae |
| 15:55.43 | Lunessa | station |
| 15:55.44 | cog|work | which is utter BS |
| 15:55.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Thrae (~ircuser@generalmx-1-pt.tunnel.tserv13.ash1.ipv6.he.net) |
| 15:55.57 | cog|work | Most chiropractors are basically just unglorified physical therapists |
| 15:56.07 | cog|work | in which case i'd rather see a physical therapist |
| 15:56.18 | Mike-N-Go | Hum, I see. |
| 15:56.32 | cog|work | and if i had back pain i might consider it ;) |
| 15:56.33 | Mike-N-Go | May you expand on your view? This is new news to me. |
| 15:56.47 | cog|work | yeah, let me dig up some links... |
| 15:56.49 | Fisker | cog|work |
| 15:56.50 | Fisker | hello |
| 15:56.53 | cog|work | hadi |
| 15:56.55 | cog|work | hai* |
| 15:57.20 | cog|work | Mike-N-Go: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?cat=4 |
| 15:57.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Yssaril (~kvirc@99-57-32-25.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 15:59.13 | Mike-N-Go | Yar, that is bs; chyropractic can cure a host of medical problems. |
| 15:59.21 | Lunessa | Suzanne Vega streaming live show.... *swoon* |
| 15:59.30 | cog|work | Mike-N-Go: no, the placebo effect can |
| 15:59.42 | Mike-N-Go | cog|work: /agree |
| 15:59.58 | cog|work | but the "host" is only non-specific symptoms |
| 16:00.02 | cog|work | they can't actually cure conditions |
| 16:00.09 | cog|work | they can make you feel better |
| 16:00.15 | cog|work | reduce pain |
| 16:00.20 | cog|work | etc. |
| 16:00.29 | Fisker | hey cog|work |
| 16:00.31 | cog|work | but you're not going to cure cholic, ear infections, etc. |
| 16:00.50 | cog|work | and no, that site isn't bs |
| 16:01.04 | cog|work | that site is specifically to get the BS out of medicine |
| 16:01.05 | amro | cog|work: I dunno man. breaking a neck is the only way to cure stupid |
| 16:01.22 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 16:01.22 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 16:01.53 | cog|work | unfortunately, confirmation bias is extremely hard to overcome |
| 16:02.28 | cog|work | "I feel better after chiropractic treatment" does not lead to the conclusion that chiropractic works |
| 16:02.45 | cog|work | (depending on your definition of "works", of course) |
| 16:03.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (~Srosh@d056032.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 16:05.03 | cog|work | http://www.chirobase.org/ |
| 16:05.23 | cog|work | http://whatstheharm.net/chiropractic.html |
| 16:05.26 | TC-Work | so this crawled up on me this morning at the bathroom here at work http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/DHX4Ae0rAUdf4u2WJcZZQ77maHAa5XSa9dL8m4Q8cZw?feat=directlink |
| 16:05.32 | TC-Work | NSFWS |
| 16:05.59 | TC-Work | (not safe for weak stomachs) |
| 16:06.18 | Mike-N-Go | cog|work: Thanks for the info! |
| 16:06.27 | cog|work | np :) |
| 16:06.36 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar_work (~sylvanaar@tut.qvssoftware.com) |
| 16:07.43 | cog|work | i do think there's a place for placebo in medicine. The trouble is ethics... For placebo to work you have to deceive your patient |
| 16:08.04 | cog|work | which makes me ambivalent about alt med industry |
| 16:08.12 | nevcairiel | Its better to deceive him and heal him then to pump him up with unneeded medicine |
| 16:08.28 | cog|work | nevcairiel: except when you do that and it turns out the medicine is needed... |
| 16:08.37 | cog|work | the other trouble with alt med |
| 16:08.43 | cog|work | is avoiding real med when it will really help |
| 16:08.54 | *** join/#wowuidev msoul (msoul@meridian.ipv6.sosdg.org) |
| 16:09.03 | msoul | Evening |
| 16:09.04 | cog|work | and any application of medicin is a weighing of risks and benefits |
| 16:09.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh_ (~Srosh@d056215.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 16:09.14 | cog|work | morning |
| 16:09.18 | cog|work | (ugt) |
| 16:09.32 | msoul | .fi :) |
| 16:09.41 | cog|work | TC-Work: my sister-in-law wants that for a pet. |
| 16:09.43 | Mike-N-Go | Who has sued over an addon(s)? |
| 16:10.36 | nevcairiel | I don't think anyone has ever sued. All that ever went around were DMCA takedowns and Cease&Desist letters |
| 16:12.45 | Mike-N-Go | How about C&D orders? |
| 16:12.58 | cog|work | orders = judgement = suing |
| 16:14.31 | Mike-N-Go | C&D order comes from a judge |
| 16:14.57 | Mike-N-Go | And has legal recourse if it is.. ignored. |
| 16:15.12 | cog|work | yeah. if the C&D letter is ignored, then you sue |
| 16:15.30 | cog|work | (if you can afford to) |
| 16:16.48 | Fisker | i cannot be stopped cog|work |
| 16:16.49 | Mike-N-Go | cog|work: I am so tired, I thought you had a ? at orders = judgement = suing.. lol |
| 16:16.58 | cog|work | hehe |
| 16:17.09 | Mike-N-Go | But can he be started? THAT is the question! |
| 16:17.14 | cog|work | puts an immovable object in front of Fisker |
| 16:18.27 | *** join/#wowuidev PProvost (~peter@71-33-196-204.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 16:18.27 | *** join/#wowuidev PProvost (~peter@WoWUIDev/WAU/Admin/Pprovost) |
| 16:21.56 | Mike-N-Go | Who has done work for hire in WoW AddOn arena? |
| 16:23.43 | Cide | #wowuimercs |
| 16:23.51 | cog|work | ha |
| 16:23.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@pool017.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 16:23.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 16:24.09 | Nechckn | TC-Work what the monkey is that thing?!? |
| 16:25.11 | Seerah | ugh! that's a huge one, TC-Work |
| 16:25.19 | Seerah | Nechckn: house centipede |
| 16:25.38 | Seerah | oh wait... those have more legs |
| 16:25.41 | Seerah | what is that one? |
| 16:25.49 | cog|work | Seerah: i think you're right |
| 16:25.58 | cog|work | http://androidathlete.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/house-centipede.jpg |
| 16:26.01 | TC-Work | i have no idea |
| 16:26.14 | TC-Work | cog|work: wait, what? |
| 16:26.17 | TC-Work | a pet? |
| 16:26.23 | cog|work | she lurvs bugs |
| 16:26.39 | cog|work | had a beautiful praying mantis for a while |
| 16:26.50 | TC-Work | she can have it |
| 16:26.56 | TC-Work | she just needs to come down here to get it |
| 16:26.57 | Cide | I feel obliged -- as a programmer - to HATE bugs |
| 16:27.05 | Cide | wait |
| 16:27.08 | Cide | it's in your house TC-Work? |
| 16:27.21 | TC-Work | at work here |
| 16:27.22 | Cide | oh |
| 16:27.23 | Cide | at work |
| 16:27.25 | amro | cog|work: did she grow up in japan or something? |
| 16:27.27 | Cide | nasty |
| 16:27.37 | Seerah | http://www.youjustmademylist.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/huge_house_centipede.jpg |
| 16:27.49 | Seerah | they're scary. and super fast |
| 16:28.01 | amro | yeah surprisingly fast |
| 16:28.04 | amro | but not fast enouogh |
| 16:28.05 | Seerah | even my dogs won't chase them |
| 16:28.16 | amro | I've lost count of how many I killed |
| 16:28.24 | Seerah | my youngest dog threw up the first time she tried >< |
| 16:28.32 | Seerah | it grossed her out :p |
| 16:29.12 | Seerah | it usually takes me about 5 minutes to psych myself up enough to get close enough to smash them with a shoe. God forbid I miss. |
| 16:29.33 | nevcairiel | Anyone know a tool that can log cpu usage while i'm playing, to debug bottlenecks, etc? |
| 16:29.55 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 16:32.38 | Mike-N-Go | nevcairiel: Did you look in the download section the the wowinterface site? |
| 16:33.00 | nevcairiel | i was looking for a helpful answer, but thanks |
| 16:33.59 | Fisker | bam Mike-N-Go |
| 16:34.09 | Fisker | btw mikma |
| 16:34.13 | Fisker | you can't call me a troll |
| 16:34.21 | Fisker | i'm too smart and rich for that |
| 16:34.32 | Mike-N-Go | nevcairiel: It is not helpful to teach a person how to acquire information? |
| 16:34.54 | nevcairiel | sure, if you tell them the right place to look |
| 16:35.14 | nevcairiel | why would a tool to monitor cpu usage be hosted on a wow page |
| 16:35.17 | nevcairiel | it doesnt make sense! |
| 16:35.25 | Mike-N-Go | What have you tried before asking? |
| 16:35.52 | nevcairiel | ... |
| 16:35.54 | nevcairiel | whatever |
| 16:36.02 | TC-Work | ~fbi |
| 16:36.02 | purl | hmm... fbi is http://media.putfile.com/Querido-FBI-video-cortesia-Los-Acheros |
| 16:36.12 | TC-Work | ~irc |
| 16:36.12 | purl | Welcome to IRC, where the men are men, the women are men, and the little girls are FBI agents. |
| 16:36.29 | Mike-N-Go | Most people rarely give help if the request is vague, or it does not appear that the other has put forth some effort. |
| 16:36.55 | Mike-N-Go | My question for you: How many moments have you put into searching before asking? |
| 16:38.01 | Mike-N-Go | I'm not trying to be rude, I am not saying I do not want to help you, I'm curious what you have tried before asking for help? |
| 16:38.02 | nevcairiel | I wasn't asking for support. I was just asking if someone could recommend a tool. Thats what you do before going on a wild goose chase through the internets |
| 16:38.49 | Mike-N-Go | I see, I misunderstood what you were asking, please forgive me. I have a bad case of insomnia, and have been up for more then 24 hours. |
| 16:39.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen (~Kevin@149.169.212.4) |
| 16:39.34 | Fisker | i should save that one for some time Mike-N-Go |
| 16:39.44 | cog|work | hai 6n |
| 16:39.50 | Mike-N-Go | Fisker: Pardon? |
| 16:39.52 | Fisker | lol n1 cog|work |
| 16:40.07 | Fisker | your excuse |
| 16:40.13 | Fisker | it was very inventive |
| 16:41.05 | Nechckn | Fisker But you do live under a bridge,so I think we still can safely do so. |
| 16:41.26 | cog|work | has the ROFLMAO song stuck in his head |
| 16:42.37 | Sixen | hai c0g |
| 16:42.51 | Fisker | i don't live under a bridge Nechckn :( |
| 16:44.13 | Mike-N-Go | nevcairiel: I used http://wowinterface.com/downloads/info7175-ResourceTools.html months ago, not sure if it still works. |
| 16:44.46 | Nechckn | Fisker I think you are just back-pedling... all you said is that you were too rich and smart. No mention of bridge-living-under. |
| 16:45.37 | nevcairiel | Mike-N-Go: i want to know how much CPU WoW uses, not any addons |
| 16:46.08 | Mike-N-Go | Ahh, I missunderstood you. |
| 16:46.32 | nevcairiel | I'm trying to figure out at what speed WoW caps out on my CPU and it becomes the bottleneck |
| 16:46.57 | Mike-N-Go | On Mac, there is Activity Monitor, and for Windows, there is the contr-alt-del thing, that is a start. |
| 16:47.06 | Mike-N-Go | Good luck to you. |
| 16:48.04 | nevcairiel | I would prefer some file logging =p |
| 16:48.11 | nevcairiel | for GPU load GPU-Z can do that |
| 16:48.18 | PProvost | For windows, procexp is better than the built in one - http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896653.aspx |
| 16:48.28 | nevcairiel | still no logging :( |
| 16:49.00 | nevcairiel | right now i'm seeing somewhat like always over 96% GPU load, so i guess the cpu is being fast enough anyway |
| 16:53.21 | Nechckn | nevcairiel what windows version? |
| 16:53.33 | nevcairiel | 7 |
| 16:56.35 | Nechckn | Hrm, was going to say Resource monitor, but logging is questionable on that, too. |
| 16:57.57 | Nechckn | you could make a custom set, but not sure if that would be exactly what you need/want |
| 17:00.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Humbedooh (~Humbedooh@unaffiliated/humbedooh) |
| 17:01.10 | nevcairiel | I'm seeing a near 100% GPU load in all tests so far anyway |
| 17:01.19 | nevcairiel | i'll jsut ignore the CPU and consider it fast enough |
| 17:01.42 | *** join/#wowuidev a-stray-cat (~stray@c-76-20-13-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 17:02.47 | amro | nevcairiel: what kind of perf issues are you getting? |
| 17:03.14 | nevcairiel | none really, i'm just trying to figure out how to squeeze more out |
| 17:03.19 | Nechckn | Mikk, who of course is MIA right this moment, usually helps us with fine tuning, so you may try hitting him up for resource ideas, if you are still interested then. |
| 17:03.25 | nevcairiel | also, comparing live results to cata, to see how things improve |
| 17:03.31 | nevcairiel | (if they do.) |
| 17:03.33 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@user-11217cv.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 17:03.33 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 17:03.47 | amro | nevcairiel: more what out exactly? |
| 17:03.51 | nevcairiel | fps |
| 17:03.53 | nevcairiel | what else! |
| 17:04.02 | amro | are you getting 60fps? |
| 17:04.16 | nevcairiel | on my test route, sure |
| 17:04.21 | nevcairiel | in raids, not always |
| 17:04.37 | amro | you don't need to push it past 60 |
| 17:04.40 | amro | there's really no point |
| 17:04.57 | Humbedooh | disable damage meters? ;> |
| 17:04.58 | amro | as far as raids go, the game just sucks at handling them |
| 17:05.16 | Humbedooh | too much info being processed in raid fights anywho |
| 17:05.24 | Humbedooh | and too many addons processing too much of it |
| 17:05.29 | *** part/#wowuidev Yssaril (~kvirc@99-57-32-25.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:05.37 | amro | that's not always the bottleneck |
| 17:05.49 | Humbedooh | not always no, but it's surely a part of it |
| 17:05.54 | Humbedooh | then there's all the spell crap |
| 17:06.14 | Adys | nevcairiel: http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11674 |
| 17:06.30 | nevcairiel | I dont use wine |
| 17:06.36 | Adys | ah |
| 17:07.20 | nevcairiel | amro: It also gives me a better understanding of the underlying gfx system, which is always nice. Which option breaks performance, which increases it, etc |
| 17:07.35 | nevcairiel | Also, i'm going from my 260 to a 460, and want to document the increase :D |
| 17:07.48 | nevcairiel | And, i have fun doing it :p |
| 17:08.07 | Adys | nevcairiel: if you want to determine which graphics effect use cpu and which use gpu i can tell you that :P |
| 17:08.08 | amro | you'll probably get smoother fps in raids, but elsewhere it won't matter |
| 17:08.11 | Humbedooh | well one issue I do remember is that WoW's basic gfx stuff like antialiasing is heavilly outdated |
| 17:08.26 | Humbedooh | so to boost it, you can fx. disable it in-game and then use your hardware driver to force it back |
| 17:09.01 | Adys | AA is fully controlled by the gpu in wow. if you have a good card it's useless to disable it |
| 17:09.26 | Humbedooh | it's controlled by tiny gnomes |
| 17:09.27 | nevcairiel | Enabling shadows to full drops me from 108 average fps to 55. Damn those shadows. And i thought they would eat more cpu then gpu power |
| 17:09.51 | Humbedooh | have you tried nudging the shadow quality bit by bit? |
| 17:10.02 | Humbedooh | sometimes you can get higher fps with a medium setting than with a low one |
| 17:10.14 | Adys | nevcairiel: shadows eat both cpu and gpu power depending on the shadow level |
| 17:10.51 | Humbedooh | wonder what gpu and cpu power tastes like |
| 17:10.55 | Adys | terrain shadows are heavily controlled by the cpu, the others use some of both |
| 17:11.00 | TC-Work | grrr...screw you javascript, do what i want |
| 17:13.27 | amro | nevcairiel: doesn't wow have an fps limit? |
| 17:13.37 | amro | anything beyond 60 is meaningless in terms of scale |
| 17:13.46 | amro | so dropping from 108 to ~60 doesn't matter |
| 17:14.12 | amro | dropping from 60 to 55 is more meaningful than dropping from 200 to 150 |
| 17:14.20 | Humbedooh | it has an upper limit of 180 or such |
| 17:14.27 | amro | stupid |
| 17:14.40 | nevcairiel | Humbedooh: not really |
| 17:14.48 | Humbedooh | hmm pretty sure it did |
| 17:14.53 | nevcairiel | mine was running above 250 in some short areas of the tet |
| 17:14.56 | nevcairiel | *test |
| 17:15.12 | Humbedooh | beta? |
| 17:15.16 | nevcairiel | live |
| 17:15.27 | Humbedooh | hm could be it was 280 then |
| 17:16.02 | Humbedooh | oh |
| 17:16.05 | Humbedooh | it's 1000 now |
| 17:16.08 | Humbedooh | used to be 200 |
| 17:16.15 | Humbedooh | or no |
| 17:16.18 | Humbedooh | the other way around! |
| 17:16.33 | Humbedooh | but it's a soft cap, whatever that means |
| 17:17.45 | Humbedooh | hm, you tried that odd leatrix gfx whatsisname? |
| 17:18.14 | nevcairiel | amro: its only meaningless for the player, the scale is still the same, and for comparison thats what matters. Running 60fps on a flying route with /timetest is all fine, until you hit 30 fps when 20 people start casting =p |
| 17:18.40 | nevcairiel | so getting moar fps flying would somehow imply i also get more in raid |
| 17:18.46 | amro | nevcairiel: it's not because of the way overhead compounds |
| 17:19.11 | nevcairiel | WoW doesnt magically change its rendering after 60 fps |
| 17:19.21 | amro | this has nothing to do with wow |
| 17:19.34 | amro | a small change can easily make the fps drop by the hundreds if it's unlimited |
| 17:19.35 | nevcairiel | the GPU doesnt either |
| 17:19.46 | amro | but as it gets lower, it takes a bigger change to make the fps drop |
| 17:20.10 | amro | if you just have one triangle rendering and nothing else, you're gonna have like 5000fps |
| 17:20.16 | nevcairiel | as long as the GPU is not cpu limited, rendering 120 frames is twice as fast as 60 frames |
| 17:20.24 | amro | you add a few small things, it'll drop to 2000 |
| 17:20.25 | nevcairiel | i dont see your point |
| 17:20.34 | amro | and all of a sudden you're like, omg those small things cost me 3000fps!!!! |
| 17:20.43 | amro | when it's not true at all |
| 17:20.52 | amro | anything above your refresh rate is meaningless and you shouldn't think about it |
| 17:20.58 | nevcairiel | no-one is talking about absolute offsets |
| 17:21.07 | nevcairiel | but if it runs at 100 fps |
| 17:21.11 | amro | yeah, but even relatively, they're not very meaningful |
| 17:21.15 | nevcairiel | and through soem config i can get it to run at 150 fps |
| 17:21.18 | amro | you can say, oh I gained 10 fps from 100 to 110 |
| 17:21.23 | nevcairiel | it'll also be faster when the complexity increased |
| 17:21.27 | amro | not necessarily |
| 17:21.32 | Humbedooh | what amro said |
| 17:21.36 | amro | you're assuming that there's just a single bottleneck |
| 17:21.43 | amro | and any improvement will apply across the board |
| 17:21.47 | Humbedooh | you're implying that the complexity is identical in structure, nev |
| 17:21.59 | nevcairiel | I didn't say it will also be 50% faster |
| 17:22.02 | nevcairiel | just, faster |
| 17:22.09 | amro | you can't say if it will be faster at all |
| 17:22.12 | Humbedooh | it's stil a logical fallacy |
| 17:22.32 | amro | making your car go faster on the highway won't translate to your car going faster in a swamp |
| 17:22.35 | amro | or quicksand |
| 17:22.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (~Daniel@c-71-237-228-188.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 17:22.56 | nevcairiel | amros reasoning is still fail. If i get it from 55 to 60 won't matter either, then |
| 17:22.57 | amro | granted, it's possible that your performance boost will translate to raids |
| 17:23.16 | amro | but getting it from 55 to 60 will result in a visible improvement |
| 17:23.21 | amro | so at least it's useful for *something* |
| 17:23.32 | Humbedooh | it's a very basic scientific staple that you can't conclude on anything you haven't tested :) |
| 17:23.34 | amro | if you want to improve your performance during raids, you'll have to test during raids |
| 17:23.53 | nevcairiel | you can't test during raids |
| 17:23.55 | Kraps | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=26859116137&sid=2000&pageNo=12#226 |
| 17:23.58 | nevcairiel | you don't get comparable samples |
| 17:23.58 | Kraps | heavy |
| 17:24.15 | Adys | nevcairiel: just test in wg |
| 17:24.17 | amro | nevcairiel: I know what you're point is, you're trying to squeeze every last bit |
| 17:24.21 | amro | wow |
| 17:24.23 | amro | your* |
| 17:24.24 | Humbedooh | well you just contradicted yourself then, nev :p |
| 17:24.24 | amro | ~stab amro |
| 17:24.25 | purl | ACTION runs at amro with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut. |
| 17:24.36 | nevcairiel | Humbedooh: no i didn't |
| 17:24.40 | Humbedooh | yes you did |
| 17:24.52 | Humbedooh | <nevcairiel> you don't get comparable samples <- what amro was trying to say all along |
| 17:25.05 | nevcairiel | I can compare one gryphon flight to another |
| 17:25.15 | nevcairiel | and if i can get that oen faster, it'll certainly not be slower in raids |
| 17:25.19 | Humbedooh | if the view is identical yes |
| 17:25.23 | Adys | thats not at all what amro was saying |
| 17:25.38 | Humbedooh | you can speculate that nev, but you can't know for certain |
| 17:25.39 | nevcairiel | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:25.54 | amro | my point is that anything over 60 will contaminate your results. you're calling OnUpdate more often and god knows what else under the hood |
| 17:25.57 | amro | all of that overhead compounds |
| 17:26.14 | amro | you can much more easily boost 200 to 230 fps than you can boost 40 fps to 50 fps |
| 17:26.30 | nevcairiel | drawing that line at 60 is kinda weird though, its an arbitrary line. What if i play on my tv that refreshes at 50 |
| 17:26.33 | Humbedooh | ./run wipe(_G) <- no moar OnUpdate! |
| 17:26.37 | amro | then draw the line at 50 |
| 17:27.05 | amro | it's not as arbitrary as you think, it's pretty much a standard |
| 17:27.11 | Humbedooh | isn't that a tautology tho, amro? :p |
| 17:27.15 | amro | even with different refresh rates |
| 17:27.32 | amro | what is? |
| 17:27.43 | Humbedooh | it's only a limit because you define it as a limit |
| 17:27.55 | amro | no, it's only a limit because it's a meaningful one |
| 17:28.02 | nevcairiel | Maybe someone should bug blizzard to give us a fake raid scene to timetest with =P |
| 17:28.05 | amro | if you draw 2000fps but only refresh 60fps |
| 17:28.05 | Humbedooh | it's only meaningful because you say so :p |
| 17:28.10 | amro | only 60fps will actually show up on the screen |
| 17:28.14 | amro | the rest are a COMPLETE waste |
| 17:28.21 | amro | nevcairiel: yeah that would be awesome |
| 17:28.23 | Humbedooh | not for testing |
| 17:28.27 | amro | yes for testing |
| 17:28.34 | Humbedooh | no |
| 17:28.37 | Adys | nevcairiel: they did. they downsized 40mans to 25man, fake raids all over :) |
| 17:28.41 | amro | unless you want to run on a tv that pointlessly refreshes at 200hz |
| 17:28.43 | Humbedooh | doesn't matter if you can see the frame or if it gets discarded |
| 17:28.53 | Humbedooh | it's still gonna render, no? |
| 17:29.00 | amro | it does, because it gives you a false impression of your improvements |
| 17:29.02 | amro | like i said |
| 17:29.06 | Adys | Humbedooh: it's going to render but never show |
| 17:29.13 | amro | 200fps -> 230fps, easy improvement to make, but completely meaningless |
| 17:29.23 | amro | 40fps->50fps, very hard improvement to make, and very much meaningful |
| 17:29.30 | Humbedooh | it's an exponential improvement, we can agree on that yes |
| 17:29.38 | amro | yes, but there's no formula |
| 17:29.53 | amro | so you can't say, oh I saved 200->230 so that means I get so and so if I'm capped to 60fps |
| 17:30.11 | Dewin | My screen refreshes at 75hz. If I can render a given scene at 200fps (even if I can't see all 200 frames), than I know I'm likely to be able to handle a more complicated scene at at least 75fps :) |
| 17:30.13 | amro | not to mention the differences in hardware |
| 17:30.14 | Humbedooh | I didn't deny that |
| 17:30.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Natch (~natch@c-35cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 17:30.24 | amro | you can make a change that improves performance on nvidia but not ati |
| 17:30.27 | amro | and so on |
| 17:30.38 | Humbedooh | you can make a lot of those... |
| 17:30.40 | Humbedooh | coughs |
| 17:30.40 | amro | you can't afford to waste time with 60+ fps |
| 17:30.43 | Adys | you mean there is performance on ati? |
| 17:30.57 | amro | you should only care about your performance when you're capped to 60 |
| 17:31.05 | nevcairiel | I'm not trying to write a general purpose guide, i'm just testing which big options affect performance the most, ogl rendering vs dx rendering, shadows, and AA |
| 17:31.08 | TC-Work | if i have 'function tdate()' and i have a var inside called 'foo' cant i print it using document.write(tdate(day))? (javascript |
| 17:31.10 | nevcairiel | thats about it =P |
| 17:31.27 | Adys | nevcairiel: you could just ask for advice :P |
| 17:31.30 | amro | nevcairiel: I know, it's fine, as long as you know to take your results with a huge grain of salts for anything over 60fps |
| 17:31.33 | Dewin | heh, Adys. The way I had explained to me a few years ago (it's probably changed since then) is that ATI had better hardware, but nvidia got more out of the hardware they had. |
| 17:31.37 | nevcairiel | Adys: but what would i do all evening then! |
| 17:31.52 | Adys | masturbate |
| 17:31.55 | Humbedooh | TC-Work; uhm no? |
| 17:32.08 | Humbedooh | you can't just access vars inside a function from the outside |
| 17:32.19 | nevcairiel | amro: when i see DX giving me 108 fps, and OGL just about 80, i can still somewhat assume that DX is also faster in complex scenes that barely reach 60 |
| 17:32.22 | Humbedooh | that'd be spaghetti bolognese coding |
| 17:33.01 | Humbedooh | not necessarilly, nev |
| 17:33.21 | Humbedooh | opengl could be slower at one thing, but faster at stuff that happens during raids |
| 17:34.05 | amro | nevcairiel: nope, you can't. here's the thing: with unlimited fps, everything will give you an fps boost, and I mean everything. there is no bottleneck. if fps drops below 60, then there's clearly a worthwhile bottleneck somewhere that you need to work on, SPECIFICALLY |
| 17:34.29 | amro | nevcairiel: also really reconsider the overhead, you're doing your main loop 60 times per second normally |
| 17:34.47 | amro | if you remove the limit on that, then a small improvement to your event polling or your loop or whatever will compound way more than 60 times |
| 17:34.53 | amro | giving you a false impression of a good boost |
| 17:35.30 | amro | and what I mean by worthwhile bottleneck: if there's a bottleneck at 150fps, nobody cares about it. you'll never reach it, don't try to breach it |
| 17:35.34 | amro | oh I just rhymed |
| 17:35.38 | amro | someone give me a cookie |
| 17:35.40 | Adys | oh snap. |
| 17:36.23 | amro | I mean granted, those ARE differences in performance, but they're not meaningful. you don't NEED to have 100fps, you don't care if you can reach it or not |
| 17:36.29 | amro | all you care about is that you can reach your refresh rate |
| 17:36.31 | amro | generally, 60fps |
| 17:36.58 | nevcairiel | but since no-one can reproduce raid situations to test in, we're all just stabbing in the dark, eh :P |
| 17:37.05 | Adys | nevcairiel: wintergrasp |
| 17:37.11 | Humbedooh | exactly, nev :> |
| 17:37.15 | nevcairiel | every fight people do different shit |
| 17:37.35 | Adys | in my guild they always do the same |
| 17:37.37 | Humbedooh | also, private server~ |
| 17:37.40 | Adys | stand in the dark shit and wipe |
| 17:37.47 | amro | nevcairiel: it's too chaotic to test, I agree |
| 17:37.54 | amro | so I guess you're taking your improvements wherever you can get them |
| 17:38.04 | amro | I'm just warning you to take results with a grain of salt, that's all |
| 17:38.41 | *** join/#wowuidev soufron (~soufron@vol75-1-81-57-79-123.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:38.50 | nevcairiel | meh why is beta offline |
| 17:38.59 | *** join/#wowuidev TC-Work (~chatzilla@c-064-186-233-091.oc1.redwire.net) |
| 17:39.07 | Humbedooh | and I'm just saying that a horde of scientists will come to your house and slap you |
| 17:39.33 | Humbedooh | and Adys will watch |
| 17:39.37 | Humbedooh | obviously |
| 17:39.45 | Adys | i watch whatever the fuck i want |
| 17:39.53 | Adys | that means psych and the mentalist over and over |
| 17:40.16 | TC-Work | #2 good, #1 baaaaaad |
| 17:40.18 | Dagmar | amro: You forget that above 60fps, it's all about compensating for something |
| 17:40.29 | Humbedooh | I know, you know, that I'm not telling the truth~ |
| 17:40.37 | amro | Dagmar: what do you mean? |
| 17:40.39 | Dagmar | ...and some of these guys have quite a lot to compensate for, which is why they scream OMGOMGOMG when you suggest they don't need 160fps |
| 17:40.54 | nevcairiel | You'll never hit 60 fps exactly everywhere |
| 17:40.55 | amro | oh |
| 17:40.56 | amro | lol |
| 17:40.58 | amro | :P |
| 17:41.03 | amro | nevcairiel: you limit it to 60 |
| 17:41.18 | nevcairiel | so obviously you'll want to be above 60 in normal scenes, so you can stay at 60 when the combat happens |
| 17:41.20 | amro | which is avery good thing because it stops your game from hogging all resources |
| 17:41.24 | amro | nah |
| 17:41.29 | amro | I already explained how that works |
| 17:41.29 | Dagmar | "I savd my allowans for a hole month 2 buy this card u bettr gimma my frames or ill sue u!" |
| 17:41.35 | nevcairiel | amro: .. you dont get it |
| 17:41.42 | nevcairiel | i turn on vsync when i play normally, sure |
| 17:41.42 | amro | putting nitrous in your engine isn't going to help you in rush hour traffic |
| 17:41.47 | amro | I do get it |
| 17:41.56 | amro | it's just that some performance boosts ONLY HAPPEN ABOVE 60 |
| 17:42.03 | amro | and are not going to matter if you're below 60 |
| 17:42.04 | amro | get me? |
| 17:42.12 | nevcairiel | but when i turn it off, it should still go above 60, or there is no performance to spare to draw that new boss thats going to drop in from the roof in a minute! |
| 17:42.21 | amro | nope |
| 17:42.27 | amro | there is performance to spare |
| 17:42.31 | Dagmar | amro: I dunno about that, the people who shell out for cards like that tend to have also shelled out $400 for a quad core 6Ghz CPU they didnt' anything even remotely approaching need |
| 17:42.37 | amro | it doesn't scale as linearily as you think |
| 17:42.42 | Dagmar | It ain't peggin' out from WoW |
| 17:42.57 | amro | it's weird but that's how video cards work |
| 17:43.07 | amro | sometimes you add a ton of shit on screen and it makes no difference whatsover |
| 17:43.09 | nevcairiel | when my GPU is at 100% load drawing 60 fps in ICC (no combat), where would it get more performance to draw the spell effects in combat? |
| 17:43.14 | amro | sometimes you add a tiny thing and it brings everything to a crawl |
| 17:43.36 | amro | because it does things in batches |
| 17:43.44 | nevcairiel | everyone sees a drop in fps in that case |
| 17:43.45 | amro | a half empty batch is still a batch |
| 17:43.49 | nevcairiel | its just emperical evidence |
| 17:44.00 | nevcairiel | unless you run with vsync, but then you're above 60 when you turn it off |
| 17:44.02 | amro | I'm just saying there are no guarantees |
| 17:44.06 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 17:44.09 | amro | if you want to improve your incombat performance |
| 17:44.13 | Adys | nevcairiel: you also need to take in account the fact that in many engines and drivers you have prioritized rendering |
| 17:44.13 | amro | improve your incombat performance :) |
| 17:44.32 | amro | I have an application that takes 100% cpu regardless of how much work it's doing |
| 17:44.41 | nevcairiel | its a broken application, then |
| 17:44.46 | Dagmar | Microsoft Word doens't count. |
| 17:44.55 | Adys | flash doesnt either. |
| 17:44.58 | amro | because i'm not passing control to anything else |
| 17:45.01 | amro | even when im not doing anything |
| 17:45.09 | amro | I do 10,000 updates per second |
| 17:45.13 | amro | when 30 are sufficient |
| 17:45.14 | nevcairiel | with vsync on my GPU doesnt get to 100% load, until i'm in combat and my fps drops below 60 |
| 17:45.28 | nevcairiel | so obviously there is power to spare |
| 17:45.36 | Dagmar | I'd have to agree |
| 17:45.38 | nevcairiel | but not enough |
| 17:46.54 | amro | you're assuming that the bottleneck is the processing power available to the GPU |
| 17:46.55 | amro | could be true |
| 17:47.07 | amro | but not necessarily |
| 17:47.24 | Adys | nevcairiel: you should imho wait 1 week before you do any test either way |
| 17:47.35 | nevcairiel | why? |
| 17:47.38 | Adys | the 4.x client brings a completely revamped rendering engine |
| 17:47.49 | nevcairiel | see, thats why i'm comparing live to the beta |
| 17:48.39 | Adys | a polished beta usually ends up being a buggy release |
| 17:48.39 | nevcairiel | if the beta would let me in |
| 17:48.49 | Dagmar | adys: Do tell? Delicious |
| 17:48.57 | Adys | about the revamp? |
| 17:48.59 | amro | nevcairiel: look, I have a game that runs locked at 60fps. if I unlock it, it goes up to maybe 70, not much, but regardless of how much shit is on screen |
| 17:49.04 | amro | it never drops below 60 |
| 17:49.14 | nevcairiel | amro: WoW doesnt act like that though |
| 17:49.22 | amro | you're assuming that somehow every little thing you add will deduct from your fps |
| 17:49.23 | nevcairiel | empty rooms are very simple to draw for it |
| 17:49.27 | amro | which simply isn't true |
| 17:49.38 | amro | wow's engine is bad |
| 17:49.39 | nevcairiel | I know that it isnt for other games |
| 17:49.45 | nevcairiel | but WoW just acts like this |
| 17:49.48 | Adys | Dagmar: its just better code in general. from what i understand, blizz hired a bunch of crysis engineers to rewrite it |
| 17:49.58 | nevcairiel | empty room = Loads of fps, add 25 raid members and people casting = byebye fps |
| 17:50.25 | amro | nevcairiel: which could be due to a number of factors that never come into play when you're running around with fps uncapped |
| 17:50.31 | cog|work | TC-Work: Seerah: amro: may want to think twice about killing those... "House centipedes feed on spiders, bedbugs, termites, cockroaches, silverfish, ants, and other household arthropods." |
| 17:50.59 | amro | cog|work: it's okay, I kill all of those too. |
| 17:51.03 | Seerah | I know... -.- |
| 17:51.05 | Seerah | ^^ |
| 17:51.06 | Adys | ok now i want to know why you're telling TC-Work, Seerah and amro about this and nobody else |
| 17:51.22 | cog|work | Adys: b/c you weren't around for the original convo? |
| 17:51.40 | Seerah | TC-Work got molested by a house centipede today |
| 17:51.43 | Adys | it's creepy as shit is what it is. |
| 17:52.04 | cog|work | silly primate |
| 17:52.04 | Adys | Seerah: images.. in my mind.. thing |
| 17:52.35 | Seerah | hehe |
| 17:52.41 | Dagmar | Adys: That's delicious news indeed. I'd like to see my FPS not start getting iffy in a 25-man |
| 17:52.46 | amro | nevcairiel: here's something to try out. compare your fps when zoomed out to your fps when you look at the ground and zoom all th eway in |
| 17:52.49 | Dagmar | ...or at least, get less iffy |
| 17:52.53 | amro | next time you're in a laggy raid, look at the ground and zoom in |
| 17:52.56 | amro | you won't really see a boost |
| 17:53.02 | nevcairiel | amro: actually, i will |
| 17:53.03 | Adys | Dagmar: i havent tested in raids |
| 17:53.10 | nevcairiel | i do that on some fights where its especially bad |
| 17:53.14 | Adys | but the performance is better across the board |
| 17:53.17 | Dagmar | amro: It does make a difference, getting mobs off hte screen |
| 17:53.24 | Dagmar | It's not an illusory one either. |
| 17:53.32 | amro | Dagmar: yeah, which matters if the mobs on screen are the bottleneck |
| 17:53.38 | amro | and not some sort of processing overhead |
| 17:53.46 | amro | but in nev's case it sounds like it's true |
| 17:53.51 | Dagmar | I know a guy who raid heals 25-mans on a laptop that goes 10 fps in the auction house |
| 17:54.00 | Dagmar | He stands in the corner and faces the wall |
| 17:54.08 | nevcairiel | I mostly had issues on fights with outdoor views |
| 17:54.11 | nevcairiel | like gunship |
| 17:54.23 | nevcairiel | when i look at the landscape, its goes down to unplayable |
| 17:54.27 | Adys | thats a terrain drawing issue |
| 17:54.31 | nevcairiel | when i look at the ship or something, its up high |
| 17:54.31 | amro | yeah |
| 17:54.40 | Dagmar | number of polygons |
| 17:54.42 | amro | you can test that anywhere on northrend |
| 17:54.45 | amro | sounds like a fillrate issue |
| 17:54.45 | Adys | loosen the terrain distance nevcairiel |
| 17:54.54 | nevcairiel | Adys: but it looks teh ugly then! |
| 17:54.57 | amro | =get a newer card |
| 17:54.59 | amro | or a higher end one |
| 17:55.13 | nevcairiel | i dont have those problems with OpenGL or outside of instances |
| 17:55.20 | nevcairiel | i can fly around icecrown with view distance maxxed |
| 17:55.28 | nevcairiel | or run with opengl in the instance |
| 17:55.31 | nevcairiel | overall a bit lower fps |
| 17:55.33 | Adys | wait one week then |
| 17:55.33 | Adys | :p |
| 17:55.37 | nevcairiel | but no issues there :p |
| 17:55.47 | amro | it could also be a fuckup in their rendering system |
| 17:55.59 | Dagmar | nevcariel: Lootship vistas lag you tho? THat's effed up |
| 17:56.04 | Adys | which is why i said wait one week |
| 17:56.06 | amro | it's really a pain in the ass to try and optimize for a system when you don't know how it works |
| 17:56.09 | Adys | it'll likely be fixed in 4x |
| 17:56.29 | Dagmar | I know mine gets a bit choppy there but I figured it was just spell effects |
| 17:56.31 | nevcairiel | I'm also upgrading my 260 to a 460, so its a newer card :p |
| 17:56.41 | nevcairiel | Trying to compare d3d9 and d3d11 on the beta |
| 17:56.45 | nevcairiel | but it wont let me in! |
| 17:57.04 | Dagmar | OOoo 460's are pimpin |
| 17:57.13 | Adys | also at this point id like to point out that performance in raids is 97% of the time due to two things: spell effects and file access |
| 17:57.16 | Dagmar | The price:performance ratio on 'em is great |
| 17:57.26 | nevcairiel | Adys: i'm also getting a ssd for that issue :d |
| 17:57.32 | Dagmar | adys: I has teh rams |
| 17:57.45 | Dagmar | My filesystem cache brings all the processes to the core. |
| 17:57.47 | nevcairiel | Dagmar: Wow has no idea how to use teh rams |
| 17:58.14 | Dagmar | It doesn't have to. It's just gotta request the IO and hum along |
| 17:58.32 | nevcairiel | I dont think windows starts caching the whole 20gb of wow data in its cache |
| 17:58.38 | nevcairiel | not that it would fit |
| 17:58.42 | Dagmar | It doesn't need to read all that anyway |
| 17:58.56 | nevcairiel | No idea how it works with partial file caching |
| 17:59.05 | Dagmar | s/no idea how/ |
| 17:59.15 | nevcairiel | Would probably be easier if the files were unpacked :p |
| 17:59.24 | Dagmar | Yeah that's definitely true |
| 17:59.45 | Adys | that's not essentially true |
| 17:59.47 | nevcairiel | now its just stabbing in the dark what to cache, and what to drop |
| 18:00.04 | amro | you also have to consider how the renderer works internally |
| 18:00.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Sliker (ponies@5ad22aae.bb.sky.com) |
| 18:00.20 | amro | the problem might not be that there's a lot of shit on screen, but that there's a lot of shit being removed and added |
| 18:00.24 | Dagmar | It might be reading from fs cache but having to desquish what it reads costs clockcycles |
| 18:00.32 | amro | if they're using an inefficient container, that could be a bottleneck |
| 18:00.40 | amro | if they're fucking cache locality, that could be a bottleneck |
| 18:00.58 | nevcairiel | loading stuff to be added is certainly one bottleneck in busy scenes |
| 18:01.02 | nevcairiel | or hell even in dalaran |
| 18:01.09 | amro | that one is obvious though |
| 18:01.10 | Lunessa | I get a significant boost to wow performance using Readyboost. But that's zoning and other file-access stuff where read-ahead caching can make a difference. |
| 18:01.13 | amro | it lags a bit, then it smooth sout |
| 18:01.20 | Dagmar | I don't think there's any making Dalaran happy |
| 18:01.32 | nevcairiel | I'll see how thats going to work with the SSD |
| 18:01.56 | nevcairiel | Lunessa: i never had a stick that was fast enough :p |
| 18:02.14 | Lunessa | nevcairiel: I went and bought one sepcifically for readyboost. |
| 18:02.21 | Adys | [19:02:30] <nevcairiel> Lunessa: i never had a stick that was fast enough :p |
| 18:02.21 | nevcairiel | i was too cheap for that |
| 18:02.22 | Adys | :\ |
| 18:02.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Limbero (~Limbero@c83-250-2-110.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 18:02.27 | Dagmar | I added moar rams |
| 18:02.33 | Lunessa | However, you bought an SSD, I didn't. |
| 18:02.36 | nevcairiel | Didnt think readyboost would do that much with 8 gbs of ram |
| 18:02.36 | Dagmar | I don't care if the data goes away when I power off |
| 18:02.43 | nevcairiel | Lunessa: yeah well, i started earning now :) |
| 18:03.05 | Lunessa | I plan on getting an SSD and 4gb more RAM in December. |
| 18:03.23 | Adys | how much ram you have? |
| 18:03.32 | Lunessa | 4gb right now. I want 8gb. |
| 18:03.54 | Adys | decent call |
| 18:03.54 | nevcairiel | 4 can run short when you're doing alot in parallel, or using photoshop :d |
| 18:03.59 | Lunessa | I built my current PC on the cheap 'cause my old one died unexpectedly. |
| 18:04.28 | Lunessa | At the time, I had less than $500 to spend on the whole sheebang. |
| 18:05.04 | Adys | cataclysm may make intel very rich |
| 18:05.20 | Adys | or ssd vendors in general |
| 18:05.42 | Adys | SSDs are a huge performance boost in cataclysm due to how the game file seeking will work |
| 18:06.47 | Lunessa | the box I play on now with an i5 CPUm 4GB RAM, and an nvidia GT 420 runs WoW very nicely. |
| 18:06.52 | nevcairiel | more random access, eh |
| 18:06.53 | Adys | http://www.thedoghousediaries.com/?p=2004 |
| 18:07.00 | Dagmar | Intel is not the primary beneficiary of those rivers of money. F**king Transcend is |
| 18:07.12 | nevcairiel | GT 420? Thats the OEM card, isnt it? |
| 18:07.16 | Dagmar | I'm pretty sure they're about to get popped by the feds for pricing asshattery again |
| 18:07.20 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 18:07.22 | Fisker | i'm mad |
| 18:07.28 | Dagmar | Prices on that stuff don't sit this still for two fucking years running. |
| 18:09.10 | cog|work | Dagmar: unless the forces acting on the price are balancing themselves |
| 18:10.12 | Dagmar | cog: Yeah, backdoor deals are a great balancing force |
| 18:10.26 | cog|work | hi circular logic |
| 18:10.30 | Dagmar | Keep in mind this is the industry that has yet to go five years in a row without an investigation into price fixing. |
| 18:10.47 | Dagmar | ...or more htan about 7 without someone having the shit fined out of them |
| 18:11.29 | Lunessa | nevcairiel: Yes. it is the OEM card/model. |
| 18:11.40 | Dagmar | The price on "simple flash" SDcards has steadily gone down |
| 18:11.48 | Dagmar | CFdisks, also gone down. |
| 18:12.14 | Dagmar | SSD units? Freaking still the most expensive form of storage next to tattooing slave girls |
| 18:13.08 | Lunessa | Dagmar: Most Tattooed Slave Girls don't have an USB or RS-232 port. |
| 18:13.28 | Arrowmaster | now i know what i want for christmas |
| 18:13.35 | Kraps | http://www.mmorpg.com/newsRoom.cfm/read/18260/utm_campaign/MMORPG%20News%20Alert%20Email/utm_source/MMORPG/utm_medium/email |
| 18:13.57 | nevcairiel | Dagmar: it'll be the most expensive piece of equipment in my PC. Kinda scare for that being storage, but uhu |
| 18:14.05 | nevcairiel | scary* |
| 18:14.30 | Fisker | no Dagmar |
| 18:14.32 | Arrowmaster | i have a $500 raid controller and $1300 of harddrives |
| 18:14.39 | Fisker | memory is the most expensive form of storage |
| 18:14.45 | nevcairiel | Arrowmaster: but not a single harddrive :d |
| 18:15.03 | Dagmar | Fisker: Really. Whoever you're buying from is fucking you man |
| 18:15.19 | nevcairiel | I paid around 480 € for the SSD, which is what, 700 USD these days? |
| 18:15.41 | Fisker | no Dagmar |
| 18:16.32 | TC-Work | ok, i need to get the date (day, month, year) drop-down fields to show the current date. any ideas how i can go about that? http://wowuidev.pastey.net/141333 |
| 18:16.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Zyn (~faggotry@h187n4-av-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 18:16.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (~chatzilla@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 18:17.29 | Lunessa | nevcairiel: Did you get a giant one? They come in 60gb flavors for around $150 |
| 18:17.52 | nevcairiel | 256gb RealSSD |
| 18:18.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Elmis (56324231@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.50.66.49) |
| 18:19.28 | Fisker | realssd like realdoll ol |
| 18:19.37 | nevcairiel | I wanted some space to fit on my OS, all my apps, and a few games i play more often |
| 18:20.19 | Dagmar | Jesus |
| 18:20.44 | Dagmar | You realize I have like a dozen games installed with Win7 Ultimate Edition on a 256Mb partition and I've still generally got 50Gb left? |
| 18:21.21 | Fisker | 50Gigabit left on a 256Megabit partition |
| 18:21.21 | nevcairiel | Are those games from the 90s? :) |
| 18:21.22 | Fisker | sweet |
| 18:21.37 | Dagmar | No they're mostly 6-10gb in size |
| 18:21.48 | Fisker | what's a g...bit? |
| 18:22.27 | nevcairiel | anyway, rather have some space left, otherwise i'll just curse myself for going cheap again :p |
| 18:23.03 | Fisker | space is also awesome if you don't replace your SSD before it's EOL or whatever you call it on the individual cells |
| 18:23.20 | Dagmar | "suprise data" :) |
| 18:23.47 | Dagmar | I'm thinking I coulnd't even spend $600 on that even if it were client moneyh |
| 18:24.28 | Lunessa | I'm thinking I'll get a 60gb for my boot partition and WoW. |
| 18:24.35 | Dagmar | Yeah same here |
| 18:24.41 | Fisker | lol |
| 18:24.44 | nevcairiel | my OS and a few apps already fill 60 :( |
| 18:24.52 | Fisker | what are you going to fit there? Windows XP and WoW Classic? |
| 18:24.56 | Dagmar | I'd have a much smaller SSD in a heartbeat, but I'm still stubbornly waiting on some price drops |
| 18:25.07 | Lunessa | Windows 7, and Wow. |
| 18:25.11 | Fisker | not gonna happen |
| 18:25.15 | nevcairiel | I would need 100 at least to fit windows and WoW |
| 18:25.19 | nevcairiel | and then it would be full. |
| 18:25.35 | Dagmar | nevcairiel: Maybe move your screenshots? |
| 18:25.51 | nevcairiel | I dont have that many |
| 18:25.51 | foxlit | Why bother with windows, anyway? |
| 18:25.54 | nevcairiel | my WoW is 25gb |
| 18:25.57 | Fisker | besides |
| 18:26.02 | Fisker | you might as well get a 160GB SSD |
| 18:26.20 | Fisker | a 60GB one will probably be some old piece of shit |
| 18:26.38 | nevcairiel | yeah be careful with low capacitys, sometimes they get alot slower too |
| 18:26.39 | Fisker | which will likely not work great for WoW anyway |
| 18:26.58 | Lunessa | nevcairiel: I have a pretty massive drive for other crap. |
| 18:27.01 | nevcairiel | like the realssd's below 256gb are all capped on write speed |
| 18:27.45 | Fisker | you will go 160GB Lunessa |
| 18:27.46 | nevcairiel | And tests on the web don't always directly test the small drives |
| 18:27.55 | Dagmar | Well, there's "slow" and theres "slower" and theres "still twice as fast as your spindle disk" |
| 18:27.56 | nevcairiel | they just make a remark somewhere in the text |
| 18:28.06 | Lunessa | Fisker: I'll go with the best deal my budget can handle. |
| 18:28.11 | Fisker | maybe twice as fast throughput |
| 18:28.35 | Dagmar | 64gb is still plenty for Win7 and WoW alone |
| 18:28.58 | nevcairiel | As long as you dont plan on installing office, visual studio, and whatnot on big apps on the drive as well |
| 18:29.02 | Fisker | 25GB for Windows, 25GB for WoW, 8GB for pagefile = 58GB |
| 18:29.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (~Kaso@resnet-nat060.lancs.ac.uk) |
| 18:29.10 | Fisker | and i'm being pretty conservative on space requirements |
| 18:29.16 | Kaso | lua> print(string.format(5, "%06d")); |
| 18:29.22 | lua_bot | Kaso: 5 |
| 18:29.25 | Fisker | didn't even bother counting in the default apps |
| 18:29.28 | Kaso | what am i doing wrong here? |
| 18:29.37 | Lunessa | Like I siad, I'll go with whatever is the best deal for my budget in December. |
| 18:29.41 | nevcairiel | Kaso: reverse the arguments |
| 18:29.49 | Fisker | and i'm saying that'll be 160GB Lunessa ;3 |
| 18:30.02 | Fisker | more specifically Intel's 25nm 160GB Postville refresh |
| 18:30.13 | Kaso | ah ha! thanks |
| 18:30.14 | nevcairiel | Wait until intel launched their new generation, even if you don't get one of those, it'll most likely make prices drop |
| 18:30.40 | Lunessa | the 60s are running about $150-ish while the larger ones are going for $430-ish |
| 18:32.06 | Fisker | in either case you'll be fucked if you don't get one with a good amount of IOPS |
| 18:32.15 | Fisker | you'll need one to be sandforce based |
| 18:32.23 | Lunessa | The part of the process I'm looking forward to the least is calling microsoft to re-active my copy of windows 7 when I move it to a new drive. |
| 18:32.38 | Fisker | and considering the 160GB version of Intel's new SSD will be that, plus cost around the same as the current 80GB version, then i'd go for that :o |
| 18:32.48 | Fisker | Lunessa retail or oem? |
| 18:33.09 | Fisker | i found out why you have to call Microsoft if you have a retail copy |
| 18:33.12 | Lunessa | OEM - I bought a copy of Pro via the uni for $10 |
| 18:33.13 | Fisker | and it's retarded as fuck |
| 18:33.15 | Fisker | oh |
| 18:33.33 | Fisker | You have to reactivate a retail copy if you don't input the cd-key at install |
| 18:33.41 | Dagmar | Fisker: Because they think that since you didn't buy a site licence, you're probably stealing it |
| 18:34.00 | Fisker | well my license is online |
| 18:34.15 | Fisker | so i install, get the cd-key from my gmail (or the microsoft store) and then activate |
| 18:34.31 | Lunessa | I just have to say the CD key into the phone and say "1" for the number of machines... but 'cause it'll be a clean install, I can't use the 'phone home' feature of the O/S to do it. |
| 18:34.46 | Fisker | How they logically concluded i must be a thief since i didn't use the key from the beginning is beyond me |
| 18:35.06 | Dagmar | Because they're Microsoft |
| 18:35.15 | Fisker | the last time i had to reinstall Windows their tollfree numbers "suddenly didn't work" |
| 18:35.18 | Fisker | hurr uhrr |
| 18:35.26 | Dagmar | ouch |
| 18:35.47 | Fisker | Then after using their premium number i get told to wait for an employee after using a fuckton of time inputting the code(and i failed once :/) |
| 18:35.58 | Fisker | then that employee tells me to call later because their support systems are down |
| 18:35.59 | Fisker | raaaaaaaaaage |
| 18:36.07 | Dagmar | Hahah |
| 18:36.10 | Dagmar | Look at it this way |
| 18:36.30 | Dagmar | ...as pissed as it made you, that employee was probably sitting there going through that same crap over and over and over and over |
| 18:36.42 | Fisker | :P |
| 18:36.49 | *** join/#wowuidev mono|strigoy (~postid08@89.112.49.123) |
| 18:37.13 | *** join/#wowuidev TMc51 (~TMc@cpe-74-71-49-62.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 18:39.00 | Fisker | just wish they could make up a little less "input like 60 numbers into an answering machine to verify you're not a pirating scum" and a little more "Keep track of activations in a central database, and not mess around until you see a couple of copies online or something" |
| 18:41.35 | Lunessa | And Microsoft is wishing "Everyone would just sign over their checks to us and worship our asses." |
| 18:42.47 | *** part/#wowuidev Sixen (~Kevin@149.169.212.4) |
| 18:46.22 | Maldivia | hmm, how can you buy an oem version... |
| 18:46.53 | foxlit | Fisker: call aain. |
| 18:47.22 | Lunessa | Maldivia: Happens all the time here. I can go to Fry's and buy an OEM version of Windows and lots of components for assembling my own equipement. |
| 18:47.40 | Maldivia | well yeah, bundled with some piece of hardware |
| 18:47.48 | Maldivia | but it sounded like you just bought the oem version and nothing else :P |
| 18:47.58 | foxlit | had to reactivate windows after changing hardware |
| 18:48.05 | Lunessa | Maldivia: No, I can just buy an OEM copy of Windows. |
| 18:48.08 | foxlit | It worked like... the second time around? Curse you, long numbers. |
| 18:49.14 | Maldivia | Lunessa: hmm, ok - personally, I got my version from msdn-aa :P |
| 18:49.48 | Lunessa | Maldivia: I'm too cheap to subscribe to MSDN on my own dime, and my employer won't do so on my behalf. :) |
| 18:50.24 | Maldivia | Lunessa: well, I'm so lucky to work at a university, so we have the acedemic alliance version, so available for everyone basically |
| 18:50.54 | Lunessa | Maldivia: I also work for a university, but the license we have isn't so generous. |
| 18:51.13 | *** join/#wowuidev daev (~bleh@pool-72-86-110-88.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 18:51.41 | Maldivia | well, the faculty I work for pay a yearly fee to Microsoft (not that much), but then all employees and students at the university have free access to the MSDN-AA library |
| 18:52.01 | Maldivia | basically every MS product for free, except office |
| 18:53.04 | cog|work | ~lart battle.net website |
| 18:53.04 | purl | whacks battle.net website upside the head |
| 18:55.17 | Fisker | Ackis my man |
| 18:55.18 | Fisker | you there? |
| 18:57.00 | Kraps | olivia dunham needs to get kidnapped more often, she becomes a fucking badass |
| 18:57.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (~dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 18:58.01 | Fisker | i kidnapped your mom Kraps ;( |
| 18:58.38 | Kraps | not worth it fisker, try someone more interesting |
| 18:59.09 | Kraps | she does knit awesome stuff |
| 19:01.38 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~alestane@dsl118.rtldvtwe.sover.net) |
| 19:01.38 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 19:01.53 | Maldivia | hmm, as much as I like the Google tribute to John Lennon's birthday... why is it already up now, since tomorrow is his birthday, not today ? |
| 19:02.11 | alestane | The google logo folks don't work weekends? |
| 19:03.05 | alestane | I thought this was awesome...the lua implementation code contains a functions called "rawrunprotected." |
| 19:03.55 | Maldivia | alestane: heh, read it as "rawr! unprotected" :) |
| 19:04.03 | Lunessa | Guild cap thread Godwin'ed on page 6. http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=27026377821&sid=2000&pageNo=6 *sigh* |
| 19:04.05 | alestane | While I'm pretty sure this is intended to signify a raw function to do protected runs, I can't help reading it as there being no defense against the rawr. |
| 19:04.10 | batbot | Shirik fears to duel a bot, what a coward. |
| 19:04.36 | Lunessa | Kraps: The show is actually getting watchable again. |
| 19:04.51 | *** join/#wowuidev zz_Alram (~Alram@famous.on.irc.marlamin.nl) |
| 19:07.20 | Fisker | i disagree Lunessa |
| 19:07.30 | Lunessa | About Fringe? |
| 19:08.02 | alestane | Thread is down for maintenance, Lunessa. |
| 19:08.32 | Fisker | about the guy needing to reconsider his priorities |
| 19:08.48 | Fisker | can't spell nazi analogy without nazi |
| 19:09.15 | alestane | I figured the guild cap was to prevent leveling one guild up to max and then inviting the entire server...or, more tellingly, charging dues for membership in such a guild (which can still happen, but limits how much you can do it). |
| 19:09.27 | Lunessa | Fisker: Comparing blizzard putting a cap on guild size to genocide? yeah, he needs to reconsider things. |
| 19:09.37 | Lunessa | alestane: There |
| 19:10.07 | Lunessa | There's a lot more server data/resources tracked for a guild now than pre-cat. I suspect it's a load issue. |
| 19:12.59 | Fisker | thought they started requiring reputation for the later ranks too alestane |
| 19:14.55 | Lunessa | You can't get benefits of some things (like mounts, tabards, other gizmos) until you have earned Honored or Revered with your guild rep. |
| 19:15.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin1 (~Daniel@c-71-237-228-188.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 19:15.47 | alestane | That helps address the social problem, then. |
| 19:16.26 | Lunessa | And gaining rep is likely to be a multi-month process since you're capped for guild rep on a weekly basis. |
| 19:19.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Robsato (~Robsato@wetering.xs4all.nl) |
| 19:25.16 | nebula | people are gonna cry, megaguilds are going to have to break up, people are gonna cry some more, then we'll all move on |
| 19:26.36 | Dagmar | If there's >600 people in your guild, you should be pickier about who you allow in it. |
| 19:27.08 | Dagmar | Maybe bank alts shoudln't be in there |
| 19:27.20 | nebula | i just don't understand how people enjoying having a shit tonne of people in guild |
| 19:27.25 | nebula | its like tradechat in /g |
| 19:27.32 | Dagmar | Probably worse than that |
| 19:27.53 | Dagmar | I was in a cattle-call guild for about 15 minutes shortly after rleease |
| 19:28.03 | Dagmar | It was like Barrens Chat just followed you around, all the time. |
| 19:28.30 | Cide | and when you were in the barrens... |
| 19:28.34 | Cide | head asplode. |
| 19:28.37 | Dagmar | yeah |
| 19:28.54 | Fisker | harr |
| 19:28.58 | Fisker | adobe air on android now as well |
| 19:28.59 | *** join/#wowuidev tigingin88 (~gingtig88@adsl-75-54-121-9.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:31.21 | Lunessa | ... http://www.morphsuits.com/ .. what is this I don't even |
| 19:33.09 | sylvanaar | they should have another guild wipe by rank |
| 19:39.39 | mikma | anyone here done scrollable editbox with lua? |
| 19:41.06 | Mihau | Lunessa: They are zentai suits. Typically used as a fetish type thing. |
| 19:41.34 | Lunessa | Mihau: They're something no guy of my weight should ever own. |
| 19:41.48 | Mihau | Well, they do! |
| 19:41.51 | Lunessa | Unless, I suppose I'm doing Pac-man CosPlay |
| 19:42.00 | Mihau | That would be funny. |
| 19:42.17 | Dewin1 | Lunessa: If that was the case, I'd have to run from you if I was wearing http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts-apparel/unisex/generic/e64b/?cpg=141P |
| 19:42.38 | Lunessa | Haha... awesome. |
| 19:50.30 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-76-116-64-179.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 19:51.02 | Lunessa | Oh man. Do want. :http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts-apparel/hoodies/7c64/ |
| 19:52.31 | cog|work | what do you need warm clothing for in texas? |
| 19:52.35 | cog|work | :P |
| 19:53.04 | Lunessa | cog|work: For the 3 weeks each year where the temperature drops into the 40s? |
| 19:53.33 | cog|work | seems like a pretty low ROI then ;) |
| 19:54.19 | Lunessa | I have a fleece pullover already. It gets more use than you might think. :P |
| 19:59.02 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@cpc1-craw2-0-0-cust501.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 19:59.10 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 20:03.15 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 20:03.15 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 20:09.51 | Fisker | why do jerks |
| 20:09.51 | Fisker | suddenly appear |
| 20:11.58 | Kraps | a wild jerk appears! |
| 20:12.08 | TMc51 | lol |
| 20:13.43 | Kraps | do you: run; walk; do a jig; troll; ask for sex; punch in face? |
| 20:14.26 | TMc51 | All of the above. |
| 20:15.25 | Kraps | TMc51 uses Fisker! it is successful! |
| 20:16.20 | Shirik | ok guys |
| 20:16.22 | Shirik | awesome question |
| 20:16.26 | Shirik | let us imagine you had a computer without a keyboard |
| 20:16.29 | Shirik | how do you open the task manager? |
| 20:16.45 | TMc51 | right click the bottom bar and select task manager? |
| 20:16.48 | Arrowmaster | windows? |
| 20:16.56 | Fisker | remote desktop Shirik |
| 20:16.57 | Kraps | what TMc51 said |
| 20:16.58 | Shirik | .. |
| 20:17.01 | Arrowmaster | you open the onscreen keyboard |
| 20:17.01 | Shirik | I tried the start menu |
| 20:17.07 | Shirik | no onscreen keyboard isn't working |
| 20:17.11 | Shirik | but thanks TMc51 |
| 20:17.16 | Arrowmaster | why not? |
| 20:17.26 | Shirik | dunno |
| 20:17.28 | Shirik | it just said "fu" |
| 20:17.30 | amro | it's not a touchscreen shirik. use the mouse |
| 20:17.31 | Fisker | remote desktop Shirik |
| 20:17.33 | Kraps | wtfs at Shirik |
| 20:17.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Silker (ponies@5e072280.bb.sky.com) |
| 20:17.35 | Adys | Shirik: bind the shutdown button to the task panel |
| 20:17.37 | Fisker | really |
| 20:17.38 | Adys | hit the shutdown button |
| 20:17.40 | Adys | click task manager |
| 20:20.13 | Kraps | Lunessa: did you see episode 3 yet? |
| 20:20.58 | batrick | Shirik: get more sleep Shirik |
| 20:23.24 | Lunessa | Kraps: I'm watching them on Hulu so I'll see it later. |
| 20:24.59 | Fisker | http://www.worldstart.com/tips/tips.php/1932 <-omg it's so simple |
| 20:38.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Diao (vince@adsl-99-169-82-142.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 20:39.35 | Lunessa | commies! http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=27026380055&sid=2000 |
| 20:40.48 | Shirik | batrick |
| 20:40.52 | Shirik | my car now runs Windows XP |
| 20:40.57 | Shirik | well not my car |
| 20:41.00 | Shirik | but a car I work on |
| 20:41.11 | *** join/#wowuidev SqueeG (~SqueeG@cpe-24-161-96-151.hvc.res.rr.com) |
| 20:41.26 | nevcairiel | I wouldnt want my car be running any form of windows |
| 20:42.12 | Lunessa | Shirik: the "crash" jokes are almost overwhelming. |
| 20:42.21 | Shirik | >.> |
| 20:42.46 | Shirik | nevcairiel, want to be even more impressed? |
| 20:42.50 | Shirik | there are aircraft that run Windows CE |
| 20:42.55 | Shirik | not many, but they exist |
| 20:43.07 | nevcairiel | And i thought they had regulations about software stability |
| 20:43.11 | Shirik | they do! |
| 20:43.20 | SqueeG | maybe that's what was on the plane that caused a 4 hour delay for me a few years ago :p |
| 20:43.28 | Arrowmaster | so the windows ce isnt running anything important? |
| 20:43.29 | nevcairiel | I suppose when you use 20 boxes with Windows on it, one should be running, eh |
| 20:43.46 | Shirik | Windows CE actually is pretty stable |
| 20:43.53 | Fisker | i run a car on your car Shirik |
| 20:44.26 | Shirik | technically Windows CE /is/ an RTOS |
| 20:44.28 | nevcairiel | I dont get the freaking streaming downloader. It claims all is downloaded, and still i fly through the world and stuff is missing |
| 20:44.31 | Shirik | it doesn't use the NT kernel |
| 20:44.31 | nevcairiel | wtf is up with that |
| 20:44.49 | Shirik | it has priority inheritance, etc. |
| 20:45.28 | Adys | nevcairiel: it's patching |
| 20:45.39 | Adys | whatever has been downloaded has not always been applied |
| 20:45.49 | Adys | the throbbler shows when it's patching as well |
| 20:46.02 | nevcairiel | Whatever, it should do that |
| 20:46.16 | Adys | it doesnt work like that |
| 20:46.19 | nevcairiel | Its not like that thing shows up and i dont notice anything missing |
| 20:46.31 | nevcairiel | The f'ing trees didnt show up until a few seconds later |
| 20:46.36 | nevcairiel | and then they looked like super mario trees |
| 20:46.43 | nevcairiel | until the real, yet ugly, textures loaded |
| 20:47.14 | nevcairiel | Adys: then they should make it work like that |
| 20:47.16 | nevcairiel | this is stupid |
| 20:48.03 | Adys | nevcairiel: if they did, your wow folder size would double in size |
| 20:48.08 | nevcairiel | like i care |
| 20:48.13 | Adys | a lot of people care :p |
| 20:48.44 | nevcairiel | I hope its at least doing that once, and once i visited each part of the world, its finally done. |
| 20:49.01 | Adys | yah sort of |
| 20:49.07 | Adys | youll want to clear the cache once in a while |
| 20:49.14 | Adys | i dunno if they'll do that automatically or something |
| 20:49.45 | zenzelezz | would be nice if they made a program (or downloader setting or something) that let you still do the full patching, but I don't expect it |
| 20:50.12 | Adys | there's no actual patching |
| 20:50.20 | Adys | there's caching of applied patches |
| 20:50.22 | zenzelezz | my terminology is bad |
| 20:50.30 | Adys | http://engrishfunny.failblog.org/2010/10/08/engrish-funny-engrish-aerobics/ |
| 20:52.41 | Kraps | Adys: that page is epicaly broken |
| 20:53.02 | Kraps | k good now |
| 20:53.57 | *** join/#wowuidev RJohn (~Tanner@h123.65.149.24.cable.rdwd.jetbroadband.com) |
| 20:55.21 | *** join/#wowuidev RJohn (~Tanner@h123.65.149.24.cable.rdwd.jetbroadband.com) |
| 20:58.41 | EvilPete | wonders if he should submit patches for 4.0 compatability for the addons he uses where there's no apparent sign of updates yet |
| 20:59.12 | cog|work | i'm sure the authors would appreciate it, laziness being the first great virtue of a programmer ;) |
| 21:00.19 | EvilPete | heh. Although.. not having a public 'fixed' version of the auction addons kinda suits me too :) |
| 21:00.36 | *** join/#wowuidev TC-Work (~chatzilla@c-064-186-233-091.oc1.redwire.net) |
| 21:00.37 | EvilPete | eg: quick auctions 3 etc |
| 21:00.38 | Fisker | hey cog|work |
| 21:00.39 | cog|work | haha |
| 21:00.55 | EvilPete | shadowed unit frames.. a while bunch of other minor ones |
| 21:01.08 | cog|work | morning Fisker |
| 21:01.26 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 21:02.24 | foxlit | hah, awesome loss by my 1v1 opponent |
| 21:03.13 | EvilPete | although SUF needs more work than I quite understand.. seems there's new event types for power/mana/etc so I'm missing bar updates for things like hunter focus (even though the percentage is right). CancelUnitBuff().. I'm not touching the secure facility to replace that etc. |
| 21:03.31 | foxlit | He blocked off his natural, I nydus worm'ed zerglings into his mineral line. |
| 21:04.38 | foxlit | On the other hand, he built two stalkers, a zealot and a sentry. That wasn't going to end well regardless of what he did |
| 21:05.20 | EvilPete | I did figure out holy power, but having such a critical thing hidden away isn't exactly ideal. I use a non-unit-frame alternative |
| 21:05.25 | TC-Work | anyone know how to get the year, month, and day vars out of this function http://wowuidev.pastey.net/141341 ? |
| 21:06.30 | EvilPete | it's depressing how many things still use 'this' which was deprecated in 2.4 I believe |
| 21:07.57 | cog|work | EvilPete: yeah, the old way was presented as the right way on wowwiki for nearly 3 years after 2.0 -_- |
| 21:08.00 | Arrowmaster | EvilPete: you mean in 2.0 |
| 21:08.23 | cog|work | s/nearly 3/just over 2/ |
| 21:13.37 | *** join/#wowuidev durcyn (~durcyn@WoWUIDev/Durcyn) |
| 21:14.10 | kd3 | good thing it's a wiki and can be fixed, eh? |
| 21:14.55 | foxlit | Good thing someone fixed it, too :) |
| 21:17.37 | Lunessa | Someone who wasn't me. |
| 21:18.53 | Fisker | cog|work |
| 21:18.55 | Fisker | wanna make out? |
| 21:19.04 | cog|work | ya but not with u |
| 21:19.27 | cog|work | kd3: wasn't blaming the wiki... |
| 21:19.48 | cog|work | it's just a fact that that's where a lot of people lerned to do it wrong |
| 21:20.09 | cog|work | learned* |
| 21:20.35 | Fisker | hey kd3 |
| 21:20.39 | Fisker | how's wikia treating you these days? |
| 21:21.06 | Lunessa | TC-Work: Um, http://www.hscripts.com/tutorials/javascript/return-value.php |
| 21:21.14 | kd3 | well enough for the next week or so while we're still there |
| 21:21.38 | Lunessa | wowwiki is moving? |
| 21:22.01 | Lunessa | is so out of the loop. |
| 21:22.04 | kd3 | look at the top notice on any page on the wiki |
| 21:22.06 | kd3 | >.> |
| 21:22.16 | Shirik | <.< |
| 21:22.40 | Fisker | hey Shirik |
| 21:23.00 | Fisker | what top notice is that kd3 ? |
| 21:23.18 | kd3 | www.wowwiki.com/MediaWiki:Anonnotice |
| 21:23.26 | kd3 | which, rather amusingly, doesn't work on the new skin |
| 21:25.23 | foxlit | curse you, matchmaker. I win 4 "opponent is favored" matches in a row, lose the fifth |
| 21:26.07 | Fisker | OH BUUUUUUUURN |
| 21:26.11 | Fisker | kirkburn is a shill kd3? |
| 21:27.27 | Cide | hi |
| 21:27.36 | zenzelezz | I can't put my finger on why, but something about wowwiki has bothered me since they joined wikia |
| 21:28.04 | Fisker | hey Cide |
| 21:28.43 | Cide | how are you Fisker ? |
| 21:29.17 | EvilPete | Hey, speaking of doing evil things.. Most of the bad habits I learned by looking at the way other people did stuff. And I'm looking for another example... |
| 21:30.04 | EvilPete | I know how to embed stuff.. What I want to do is something that uses datastore |
| 21:30.28 | Fisker | i'm fine Cide |
| 21:31.08 | EvilPete | which are separate addons. I haven't seen an example of how to make the packager do something nice with that yet. eg: do I say "you must install datascore_crafts or else!" or can I have it include a copy of datastore/datastore_crafts? |
| 21:32.03 | EvilPete | I'm currently hooking craft open events and scanning for cooldowns.. but it seems like world+dog already do that and the last thing I want to do is inflict another scan. |
| 21:32.20 | EvilPete | and since one of the datastore modules tracks that info already... |
| 21:32.45 | Lunessa | EvilPete: Sounds like you're looking to add a dependency. |
| 21:33.19 | EvilPete | Yeah, I can do that in the .toc file, but its a bit late. |
| 21:34.08 | EvilPete | I was just looking for an example of something that has the packager nicely bundle a second addon alongside it and gracefully deal with it. |
| 21:34.31 | EvilPete | actually now that I think about it.. I think gearscore bundles ratingsbuster.. |
| 21:35.10 | EvilPete | but its been a while since I paid attention there, hmmm... |
| 21:35.23 | EvilPete | sorry, bonusscanner |
| 21:35.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen (~Sixen@173-25-23-86.client.mchsi.com) |
| 21:36.50 | EvilPete | I can get by just fine by saying "you must have datastore installed" either in .toc dependencies or at run time. I was just wondering if there's a polite way to do it. |
| 21:42.12 | jnwhiteh | Only a few more days to submit an entry for the Clique icon project: http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35300 please submit your entry for a chance to win a fabulous prize! |
| 21:42.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Thrae (~ircuser@generalmx-1-pt.tunnel.tserv13.ash1.ipv6.he.net) |
| 21:42.21 | Cide | haha |
| 21:42.24 | Cide | jnwhiteh the talk show host |
| 21:42.29 | Fisker | is goatse automatically disqualified? |
| 21:42.30 | jnwhiteh | =) |
| 21:42.38 | Cide | automatically qualified, Fisker |
| 21:42.50 | Fisker | that's what i thought Cide |
| 21:43.07 | TC-Work | thanks Lunessa |
| 21:43.43 | Fisker | looks like jnwhiteh already turned down my idea in his head |
| 21:44.15 | Lunessa | TC-Work: Until I looked at your snippet, I was confused about what you wanted. |
| 21:44.44 | Lunessa | First I was all o.0 and then I was all 0.o and the I was all :D |
| 21:45.47 | Shirik | .. |
| 21:46.48 | Arrowmaster | EvilPete: if datastore is another project hosted on curse you can not have the packager include it in the top level of your zip, if you do it will break the client |
| 21:50.31 | nevcairiel | it is ^ |
| 21:51.34 | Arrowmaster | EvilPete: check the .pkgmeta KB article on how to list a dependency in the .pkgmeta, unless they have changed it that should make the client install the datastore addon for anybody that installs your addon, people that download from the site will still need to download datastore though |
| 21:59.02 | Torhal | Arrowmaster: DataStore is a "library" that is intended to run standalone so it has SavedVariables. |
| 21:59.20 | nevcairiel | still can't bundle it with the addon in the zip |
| 21:59.21 | *** join/#wowuidev cralor (~cralor@c-75-68-70-97.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 21:59.28 | Torhal | Altoholic uses it (same author), so it always causes CC issues. |
| 22:06.33 | Cide | stop ignorin' my pm's Shirik |
| 22:15.12 | *** join/#wowuidev durcyn (~durcyn@WoWUIDev/Durcyn) |
| 22:28.26 | cog|work | Ackis: http://vodpod.com/watch/668325-fuck-the-earth-day?ref=nf |
| 22:28.29 | cog|work | (NSFW language) |
| 22:30.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Sliker (~ponies@5e072280.bb.sky.com) |
| 22:33.53 | TC-Work | yes cog|work i think thats obvious |
| 22:41.43 | cog|work | http://www.thinkgeek.com/caffeine/candy/d85e/ |
| 22:41.59 | Cide | ..ew |
| 22:43.26 | haste | haha, want |
| 22:44.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Limbero (~Limbero@c83-250-2-110.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 22:46.07 | *** join/#wowuidev cairenn (~Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 22:46.07 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 22:49.29 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~alestane@dsl118.rtldvtwe.sover.net) |
| 22:49.29 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 22:50.41 | SqueeG | there are...bacon bits in that |
| 22:51.37 | Cide | as it should be |
| 22:53.05 | cog|work | and caffeine |
| 22:53.21 | cog|work | i love that thinkgeek order #s are in hex |
| 22:53.43 | SqueeG | hrm |
| 22:53.56 | SqueeG | can you add line breaks to a string that's saved in a table? :p |
| 22:54.14 | jnwhiteh | yws |
| 22:54.16 | jnwhiteh | yes |
| 22:54.24 | TC-Work | anyone know how to set the falue of a dropdown field in html? |
| 22:54.29 | TC-Work | value* |
| 22:54.42 | TC-Work | initial* |
| 22:54.46 | SqueeG | jnwhiteh, do you have an example i stare at blankly for a moment? |
| 22:54.50 | jnwhiteh | umm |
| 22:54.52 | jnwhiteh | "foo\nbar" |
| 22:54.54 | jnwhiteh | that's it. |
| 22:55.00 | SqueeG | hm |
| 22:55.17 | SqueeG | i tried to concatenate a "\n" in, but it didn't work |
| 22:55.47 | jnwhiteh | i dont know what to tell you |
| 22:55.52 | Cide | TC-Work: <option selected="selected" value="5">five</option> |
| 22:55.54 | jnwhiteh | if you have a \n in a string |
| 22:55.56 | jnwhiteh | it gets saved |
| 22:56.00 | jnwhiteh | and restored |
| 22:56.43 | SqueeG | oh... wait... |
| 23:00.37 | cog|work | Cide: SqueeG http://www.thinkgeek.com/caffeine/e1bc/ |
| 23:01.21 | SqueeG | cog|work .... WHY do they make shit like that? |
| 23:01.35 | cog|work | for weird people who aren't squeamish |
| 23:02.38 | cog|work | insects make up the vast majority of animal biomass on the planet |
| 23:03.00 | cog|work | it's kind of ridiculous we don't eat them more |
| 23:03.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (~Tuller@c-69-143-52-174.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 23:03.44 | Dagmar | cog: Never been to a crawdad fry huh |
| 23:03.45 | SqueeG | do YOU eat insects? |
| 23:04.12 | cog|work | Dagmar: yeah i have |
| 23:04.16 | cog|work | love 'em |
| 23:04.30 | cog|work | SqueeG: you should've seen the big, beautiful grasshopper i ate on a camping trip |
| 23:04.40 | SqueeG | >.O |
| 23:04.41 | Dagmar | One of our contractors has a crawdad cookout every year |
| 23:04.44 | cog|work | easily 2 inches long |
| 23:04.52 | Dagmar | Every year, I've managed to dodge it. |
| 23:04.53 | SqueeG | did you at least roast it first/ |
| 23:04.57 | cog|work | no |
| 23:04.59 | cog|work | i washed it |
| 23:05.07 | SqueeG | >.O |
| 23:05.26 | Sixen | om nom nom |
| 23:05.27 | cog|work | tasted like walnuts and apples |
| 23:05.42 | Sixen | interesting |
| 23:06.01 | cog|work | texture was like a custard filled ... well... exoskeleton... |
| 23:06.07 | cog|work | not sure what to compare that to |
| 23:06.07 | Sixen | Wait, you're serious? :x |
| 23:06.13 | |Jelly| | They're not out of stock of the wasabi gumballs, but they are on the ants and tarantula. lol |
| 23:06.54 | cog|work | |Jelly|: i'm guessing the problem is more with supply than demand ;) |
| 23:06.54 | *** part/#wowuidev Robsato (~Robsato@wetering.xs4all.nl) |
| 23:07.04 | |Jelly| | Or ... the tactical bacon! |
| 23:07.59 | Dagmar | As far as I'm concerned, that's all forbidden knowledge |
| 23:10.08 | cog|work | you silly squeamish people |
| 23:10.38 | cog|work | think outside the chordata |
| 23:11.18 | |Jelly| | but but but |
| 23:11.20 | |Jelly| | :( |
| 23:11.20 | SqueeG | blech :p |
| 23:12.04 | KarlKFI | before you compile |
| 23:12.07 | KarlKFI | mt |
| 23:15.13 | cog|work | Sixen: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/801801718#6 |
| 23:16.23 | Sixen | troll |
| 23:16.53 | Trela | flops on Sixen. |
| 23:16.54 | cog|work | although it kind a makes sense :P |
| 23:17.01 | Sixen | I disagree cog |
| 23:17.07 | Sixen | You have an active sc2 account, therefore you can post |
| 23:17.13 | Sixen | You don't have an active WoW account therefore you cannot post |
| 23:17.16 | cog|work | *nod* |
| 23:18.19 | cog|work | actually blizzard owns it... i just have the privilege of using it until they decide otherwise :> |
| 23:18.27 | Trela | Sixen: Of forums, any idea when they plan to put D3 on the new forum system? |
| 23:18.44 | cog|work | slaps himself |
| 23:19.00 | KarlKFI | feel dirty no cog? |
| 23:19.04 | KarlKFI | now* |
| 23:19.10 | cog|work | yeah... dirty dirty troll |
| 23:19.32 | Sixen | Trela: as soon as they port the Legacy forums, D3 will liekly get it's own section as well |
| 23:19.40 | Sixen | And it'll probably stlil just require a D2 CDKey. |
| 23:19.58 | Trela | Mmm... WoW forums are supposedly this coming Tuesday. |
| 23:20.05 | Sixen | wha... I missed that memo. |
| 23:20.19 | Sixen | where'd you see that? |
| 23:20.40 | Trela | Blizzard said either when they released the 4.0 patch or Cataclysm. |
| 23:20.46 | Sixen | They did? :x |
| 23:20.59 | Sixen | Thought it was with Cata. |
| 23:21.09 | Trela | Either, I believe. |
| 23:21.46 | Trela | They have me programming the new blue tracker to be finished by Tuesday, I know that much. :D |
| 23:21.48 | cog|work | and have they said the patch is coming this tuesday? |
| 23:22.12 | Sixen | You work for blizzard, Trela? |
| 23:22.22 | Trela | is Alexia. :O |
| 23:22.27 | Duman | hmm |
| 23:22.31 | Sixen | Oh... |
| 23:22.33 | Trela | That doofus breaking DiabloFans. :P |
| 23:22.38 | Sixen | Hey duman |
| 23:22.41 | Duman | yo |
| 23:22.49 | cog|work | Duman: tell me how to say your last name |
| 23:22.52 | cog|work | >< |
| 23:22.53 | Duman | haha |
| 23:22.57 | Sixen | I kinda have it figured out. |
| 23:23.03 | Duman | you might sprain your tongue |
| 23:23.17 | Sixen | lol |
| 23:23.20 | cog|work | i have a very limber ton.........../me doesn't step into the trap |
| 23:23.24 | Duman | hahahah |
| 23:23.46 | *** join/#wowuidev tigingin88 (~gingtig88@75.54.121.9) |
| 23:24.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Schnaks (~Schnaks@p4FC4CF44.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:25.35 | KarlKFI | pats cog|work on the back |
| 23:28.21 | Trela | o.o; http://www.overclockers.com.au/pic.php?pic=images/newspics/8oct10/7.jpg |
| 23:28.26 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 23:31.03 | KarlKFI | Diablo Diner? |
| 23:33.30 | industrial | local function iterate(l) |
| 23:33.30 | industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:33.30 | industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:33.30 | industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:33.32 | industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:33.35 | industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:33.37 | industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:33.40 | industrial | end |
| 23:33.42 | industrial | local function each(l, f) |
| 23:33.45 | industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:33.47 | industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:33.49 | Cide | thank you |
| 23:33.50 | industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:33.51 | Cide | for the spam |
| 23:33.52 | industrial | end |
| 23:33.55 | industrial | print() |
| 23:33.57 | Cide | also |
| 23:33.57 | industrial | print('each') |
| 23:34.00 | industrial | each({1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10}, print) |
| 23:34.02 | industrial | local function map(l, f) local a = {} |
| 23:34.05 | industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:34.07 | industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:34.10 | Cide | C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER |
| 23:34.10 | industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:34.12 | industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:34.15 | industrial | end |
| 23:34.17 | industrial | print() |
| 23:34.20 | industrial | print('map') |
| 23:34.22 | industrial | each( |
| 23:34.25 | industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:34.25 | Cide | will an admin kick him? |
| 23:34.27 | industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:34.30 | industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:34.32 | industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:34.35 | industrial | ) |
| 23:34.37 | industrial | local function reduce(l, f, x) |
| 23:34.40 | industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:34.41 | Cide | guys |
| 23:34.42 | industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:34.45 | industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:34.47 | Cide | kick him or leave industrial |
| 23:34.47 | industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:34.50 | industrial | end |
| 23:34.52 | industrial | print() |
| 23:34.55 | industrial | print('reduce') |
| 23:34.57 | Dagmar | purl, KILL industrial |
| 23:34.57 | purl | ACTION shoots a inverse pseudoneutrino gun at industrial |
| 23:34.57 | industrial | print(reduce({1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10}, function(a, b) return a + b end, 0)) |
| 23:35.00 | industrial | local function detect(l, f) |
| 23:35.03 | industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:35.05 | Dagmar | Drat. Didn't work. |
| 23:35.05 | industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:35.08 | industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:35.10 | industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:35.13 | industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:35.15 | industrial | end |
| 23:35.19 | industrial | print() |
| 23:35.20 | Cide | epic ignore by the ops |
| 23:35.21 | industrial | print('detect') |
| 23:35.23 | industrial | print(detect({1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3}, function(x) return x == 1 end)) |
| 23:35.25 | industrial | local function select(l, f) local a = {} |
| 23:35.28 | industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:35.28 | Cide | and by industrial for that matter |
| 23:35.30 | industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:35.33 | industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:35.35 | industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:35.38 | industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:35.40 | industrial | I suck |
| 23:35.43 | industrial | :( |
| 23:35.45 | industrial | (why the fuck didn't fucking irssi protect me?) |
| 23:35.48 | industrial | np |
| 23:35.50 | industrial | My client is not supposed to be able to do that. |
| 23:35.53 | industrial | This, instead: https://gist.github.com/fb4bae6b65e23e183a13/3018bfdfe7f6b480d818a1cf0d7b5bdcb9711060 |
| 23:35.56 | industrial | Cide: .. there isn't any more coming |
| 23:35.59 | industrial | and there was no conversation anyway, so I didn't interrupt anything. I don't see why i should be kicked. |
| 23:36.08 | Cide | so that you would stop spamming |
| 23:36.14 | Cide | now that it's done there's obviously no point |
| 23:36.19 | Cide | you could just leave the channel also |
| 23:36.24 | industrial | no. |
| 23:36.28 | Cide | of course you could |
| 23:36.37 | industrial | LET ME TYPE DAMNIT |
| 23:36.49 | Cide | you've typed ample already :P |
| 23:36.58 | Cide | about 100 lines in fact |
| 23:37.06 | industrial | fine, not even going to defend myself anymore, screw you >:| |
| 23:37.11 | Cide | that's right |
| 23:37.14 | Cide | don't defend yourself |
| 23:37.17 | Cide | close the terminal next time |
| 23:37.28 | industrial | FUCK you are ignorant |
| 23:37.31 | Cide | how so? |
| 23:37.34 | industrial | check the stamps it happened in 1 second |
| 23:37.37 | Cide | no it didn't |
| 23:37.48 | industrial | normally IRSSI my client detects and prevents me from asting anything over 5 lines |
| 23:37.51 | industrial | it didnt. |
| 23:37.54 | Cide | irssi buffered it |
| 23:37.55 | industrial | now move on. |
| 23:37.58 | Dagmar | industrial: Your client has flood protection to keep you from casually pasteflooding yourself off |
| 23:37.59 | Cide | you pasted one line per second |
| 23:38.04 | Cide | for about two minutes |
| 23:38.14 | Dagmar | It was an spic scrollfest. |
| 23:38.20 | Dagmar | er EPIC |
| 23:38.22 | Cide | now you stop being ignorant |
| 23:38.35 | industrial | well it showed instantly on my client, including stamps |
| 23:38.39 | industrial | hurray internets ? |
| 23:38.45 | Cide | hurray irssi |
| 23:38.49 | industrial | I guess >_> |
| 23:38.56 | Cide | that's why you should have followed my instructions |
| 23:39.06 | Dagmar | No, it's in your client. The display portion runs asynch to the connection manager part, remember? |
| 23:39.17 | industrial | from my pov it had already stopped 2 mins ago and it happened in 1 second. I couldn't have known Cide. |
| 23:39.40 | industrial | rolls a J and walks outside. |
| 23:39.41 | Dagmar | industrial: If it's any consolation, purl steadfastly refused to murder you. |
| 23:39.42 | Cide | it's not that difficult though |
| 23:39.50 | Cide | if you paste that much instantly |
| 23:39.59 | Cide | you WILL get kicked by the network |
| 23:40.05 | industrial | still here |
| 23:40.11 | Cide | that's because you didn't paste it instantly... |
| 23:40.19 | industrial | must be my smart client |
| 23:40.20 | Dagmar | s/you/your client/ |
| 23:40.29 | Dagmar | >.< |
| 23:40.32 | Cide | regardless |
| 23:57.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Cide@c213-100-51-33.swipnet.se) |
| 23:57.55 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
