| 00:01.44 | kd3|netbook | so it's confirmed... everyone gets to make orc mages; gnome priests come shortly after 4.0.3, not just cata owners |
| 00:03.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen (~Sixen@173-25-23-86.client.mchsi.com) |
| 00:03.13 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (~theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 00:05.26 | alestane | Confirmed? |
| 00:05.54 | kd3|netbook | http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=World_of_Warcraft:_Cataclysm&diff=2400994&oldid=2400900 |
| 00:06.02 | Cide | wtbhelp |
| 00:12.42 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~alestane@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 00:12.43 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 00:27.10 | Lunessa | A little out of context, but: "I think current paladins have just grown accustomed to hitting a button every 1.5 sec. But we don't think the current paladin plays well. We don't like the 969 rotation. If you do, I understand, but it isn't coming back. " ~Ghostcrawler http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/27026395866/pally-tanking-in-cata/ |
| 00:27.26 | alestane | 969? |
| 00:28.03 | kd3|netbook | points to EJ |
| 00:28.44 | Lunessa | 9 second cooldown 6 second cooldown 9 second cooldown... |
| 00:28.49 | Lunessa | BORING |
| 00:31.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Diao (vince@adsl-99-169-82-142.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 00:34.29 | |Jelly| | It's not boring! It's efficient! |
| 00:35.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Monolit (~postid08@89.112.42.203.pppoe.eltel.net) |
| 00:37.34 | Lunessa | Hahaha - same thread "Dungeon Finder is a great part of the game. But its existence isn't going to cause us to design everything for the lowest common denominator. If you get a bad player in your group, give them some pointers. If they refuse to listen, kick them. If you can't kick them, then bail. You're a tank -- your queue is short. They have a lot more to lose." |
| 00:37.53 | A-KO | Lunessa: that is a win comment |
| 00:37.59 | A-KO | whoever said that deserves ++ |
| 00:38.02 | Humbedooh | ^^ |
| 00:38.07 | Lunessa | Ghostcrawler. |
| 00:38.15 | Lunessa | I'm so buying that man some gin. |
| 00:38.25 | Ama|raid | FFS. |
| 00:38.42 | Ama|raid | let's see, plagued to death, rezzed, infested to death before I can get any HP back, rezzed, dragged and dropped by a valk ... |
| 00:38.45 | Ama|raid | THIS IS ALL ON THE SAME ATTEMPT. |
| 00:39.44 | Lunessa | This thread is so full of win, "Running 85 heroics in quest greens and dungeon blues is going to be a pretty different experience. It will put stress on Dungeon Finder, for the heroics anyway -- of that we are pretty and unfortunately confident." Ghostcrawler. |
| 00:45.05 | Ama|raid | yeah ... apparently I'm the only person *in the guild* so far to have the honor of having died three times in the same LK attempt :) |
| 00:45.19 | Ama|raid | and the crappy thing was there wasn't anything I could have done myself about *any* of them :P |
| 00:45.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Avis_ (~Avis@24-181-71-177.dhcp.nwnn.ga.charter.com) |
| 00:47.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Sliker[Bed] (~ponies@5e0b4477.bb.sky.com) |
| 00:53.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Networkerror (~evonder@70-36-128-19.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 00:53.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Networkerror (~evonder@unaffiliated/evonder) |
| 00:56.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Kody- (~nope@70-36-245-200.dsl.static.sonic.net) |
| 00:56.44 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Kody-] by ChanServ |
| 00:58.44 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 00:58.44 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 01:08.47 | *** join/#wowuidev robokitty (~roboe@50A2E6C0.flatrate.dk) |
| 01:12.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (~chatzilla@99-92-174-69.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net) |
| 01:12.43 | Jerub | Lunessa: *nod* very win |
| 01:12.49 | Jerub | Lunessa: "omg wow will be hard again lol" |
| 01:13.06 | Lunessa | Hard until you adapt, maybe. |
| 01:14.13 | Lunessa | Though I don't think I'll be "crashing" through heroics in 20 minutes. |
| 01:15.34 | Cide | ok |
| 01:15.38 | Cide | I think I have found the issue |
| 01:15.39 | Cide | now to solve it |
| 01:16.18 | Cide | sudo -u lighttpd find /home/cide/dev/django/public_html/media/css: Permission denied |
| 01:16.32 | Cide | can I give the lighttpd user access to this without chowning it all? |
| 01:16.41 | Xyphoid | i predict heroics will be hard when you go there in your levelling gear and too easy when you go there in your t14 |
| 01:16.56 | Cide | I'm guessing Dagmar (ping) can answer that |
| 01:20.39 | Lunessa | ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qff2xJgDuOY ... /speechless |
| 01:20.44 | Humbedooh | anyone know if Doodlepad actually works in wotlk? ;| I only have cata working atm :\ |
| 01:20.48 | Jerub | there seems to be a serious amount of QQ on forums. here's a sample of the sentiments i've seen: |
| 01:21.08 | Jerub | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:21.18 | Humbedooh | zomg, Jerub! |
| 01:21.20 | Humbedooh | how horrible |
| 01:21.22 | Jerub | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:21.44 | Jerub | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:24.58 | Corrodias | CC is hard, too |
| 01:25.22 | Corrodias | you have to, like, ust abilities, on things |
| 01:27.33 | Xyphoid | remember the end of BC when getting hex and indoor roots was exciting because you now had CC and would get to go to heroics |
| 01:28.21 | Dagmar | where's that picture with Jack Sparrow running from all the natives |
| 01:31.21 | Dagmar | Ah... here we go. http://pics.the-deliverator.net/aggro.jpg |
| 01:31.29 | Dagmar | Pretty much sums it right up |
| 01:32.21 | Dagmar | Maybe Cata won't be like Outlands and we won't see a crapton of lazy ass warriors cleaving CC targets |
| 01:32.42 | Jerub | am i strange in that i'm very selective about if i use HS or cleave for a fight on my warrior? |
| 01:33.02 | Jerub | it'll be shockwave and thunderclap for me on my warrior, i just whack those as hard as i can |
| 01:33.02 | Dagmar | I wouldn't say very strange, but from what I saw during OUtlands you were deinitely in the minority |
| 01:33.35 | Jerub | Dagmar: is that website a snow crash reference? |
| 01:33.38 | Jerub | if so, that's awesome. |
| 01:33.42 | Dagmar | fuckers never seemed to understand that if they wanted me to actually be able to CC that they should probably just let me run up and pull |
| 01:34.00 | Dagmar | ...you know because at least *I* will take the rest of hte mobs *away* from the CC'd mobs |
| 01:34.22 | Dagmar | Jerub: I dunno. Could be. I Just pulled it up from Google Images |
| 01:34.39 | Dagmar | I think I got lucky with that image search |
| 01:36.02 | Dagmar | Seriously we'd be doing heroic mechanar with some asshole we found in LFG, we'd have one sheeped, one trapped, and one banished, and the moron would fucking cleave right there |
| 01:36.39 | Dagmar | ...when only one of the THREE skilled CC'ers has any way of placing the mob they're going to suppress without serious risk of dying. |
| 01:43.52 | Dagmar | This DirectTV commercial disturbs me greatly. I guess because if a "cable installer" showed up at my house wearing surgical gloves, I'd call the police right away. |
| 01:44.23 | |Jelly| | "I come to fix cable" |
| 01:44.53 | Dagmar | "This could tkae some time. No one else lives here? No one else comin' home soon?" |
| 01:45.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Networkerror (~evonder@unaffiliated/evonder) |
| 01:46.58 | Dagmar | That guy wearing the white latex gloves on the commercial is just creepy. |
| 01:47.22 | Dagmar | Like, if the cameras weren't there, he'd already be feeding someone into the sink disposal. |
| 01:49.15 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@user-1121k8v.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 01:49.15 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 01:49.30 | kd3 | oh shit |
| 01:49.36 | kd3 | /dev/md0 1863G 1849G 15G 100% /data |
| 01:50.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (~Kandoko@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 01:50.32 | Shirik | my friend got involved in minecraft |
| 01:50.42 | Shirik | I think he will no longer see the sun again |
| 01:50.58 | |Jelly| | ... that game is scary addicting |
| 01:51.09 | Shirik | and it's so like |
| 01:51.22 | Shirik | we have all this crazy graphics |
| 01:51.25 | Shirik | and then we have minecraft |
| 01:51.35 | Shirik | and for some reason more people are playing minecraft than, say, aion |
| 01:51.37 | kd3 | points to that xkcd strip a year or two back |
| 01:51.52 | Xyphoid | i've never played a game that did a sense of lonelyness so well before |
| 01:51.52 | Cide | let's play minecraft together Shirik |
| 01:51.56 | Shirik | no |
| 01:51.59 | Shirik | I refuse to play that |
| 01:52.04 | Cide | I refuse to play your games |
| 01:52.05 | SqueeG | Humbehdooh I can try it |
| 01:52.05 | Shirik | I refuse to get addicted |
| 01:52.46 | |Jelly| | I'd play Minecraft with you, Shirik! |
| 01:52.48 | Mirrormn | considering how much dwarf fortress fucked me up, I'm careful to stay far far away from mincecraft |
| 01:53.01 | SqueeG | or rather ... Humbedooh : I can try it |
| 01:53.09 | Shirik | I refuse to get addicted!! |
| 01:54.31 | Humbedooh | ! |
| 01:54.49 | |Jelly| | I'd play Minecraft with you, Shirik! |
| 01:55.04 | Xyphoid | you don't need to get addicted, you can just make a small house by the shore |
| 01:55.18 | Xyphoid | maybe add some windows and a deck over the lake |
| 01:55.20 | Shirik | I refuse to get addicted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 01:55.30 | Cide | play it with me you bitch |
| 01:55.37 | Xyphoid | and maybe an arch over to the amazing cliff |
| 01:55.37 | Cide | or figure out why my wifi isn't working |
| 01:56.05 | SqueeG | Humbedooh : It works |
| 01:56.30 | *** join/#wowuidev boshi23 (~boshi23@c-68-81-3-76.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 01:56.35 | Humbedooh | yay |
| 01:56.42 | Humbedooh | pats SqueeG |
| 01:57.02 | Xyphoid | maybe build some logic gates underground to make the torches on your walls light up in sequence |
| 01:57.02 | SqueeG | I'm only getting star icons though |
| 01:57.50 | |Jelly| | or do this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGkkyKZVzug |
| 01:57.56 | Shirik | you play minecraft Cide? |
| 01:57.56 | Humbedooh | hm, even if you use the mouse wheel? |
| 01:58.12 | Humbedooh | should change between icons when you scroll up or down |
| 01:58.21 | SqueeG | oh |
| 01:58.24 | SqueeG | didn't try the wheel xD |
| 01:58.25 | SqueeG | sec |
| 01:58.34 | SqueeG | derp |
| 01:58.36 | SqueeG | yea it works |
| 01:58.39 | Shirik | I've seen that |Jelly| |
| 01:58.39 | Humbedooh | \o/ |
| 01:58.41 | Shirik | I can't believe |
| 01:58.44 | Shirik | anyone has that much time |
| 01:59.04 | Cide | Shirik: not yet but people try to pressure me into doing it! |
| 01:59.24 | Cide | but |
| 01:59.26 | |Jelly| | I'd play Minecraft with you, Shirik! |
| 01:59.30 | Cide | how do I reset my wireless driver |
| 01:59.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Kody- (~nope@70-36-245-200.dsl.static.sonic.net) |
| 01:59.36 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Kody-] by ChanServ |
| 01:59.37 | Shirik | restart your computer |
| 01:59.41 | Cide | I tried |
| 01:59.42 | Cide | twice |
| 01:59.54 | Cide | it works but doesn't work |
| 02:00.27 | Cide | I seemingly manage to connect to the network but no internet connectivity |
| 02:00.43 | kd3 | your routing table broken? |
| 02:00.52 | Cide | no idea? |
| 02:00.55 | Cide | I'm awful |
| 02:01.20 | Shirik | type |
| 02:01.29 | Shirik | wait, can you connect to your router? |
| 02:01.41 | Cide | I think so |
| 02:01.48 | Shirik | like get to its config page |
| 02:01.53 | Cide | oh |
| 02:02.05 | Cide | no |
| 02:02.09 | Shirik | ok |
| 02:02.13 | Shirik | type arp -a |
| 02:02.15 | Cide | I can get the list of active networks |
| 02:02.31 | Cide | that did seemingly nothing |
| 02:02.40 | Shirik | did you do it in a command prompt? |
| 02:02.43 | Shirik | don't do it from "run" |
| 02:02.44 | Cide | obviously |
| 02:02.47 | Cide | oh |
| 02:02.48 | Cide | I'm on fedora |
| 02:02.50 | |Jelly| | lol |
| 02:02.51 | Shirik | oh fail |
| 02:02.59 | kd3 | /sbin/route -n |
| 02:03.03 | Cide | arp -a was actually a valid command too |
| 02:03.04 | Shirik | I don't know how to list arp table |
| 02:03.40 | kd3 | wait, wireless? |
| 02:03.42 | kd3 | `iwconfig` |
| 02:04.01 | cog|away | yay funday monday http://www.ustream.tv/day9tv |
| 02:04.03 | Cide | yeah, what do you want to know? |
| 02:04.12 | cogwheel | SC2 peeps ^ |
| 02:04.14 | kd3 | is what it's returning making sense? |
| 02:04.18 | Cide | seems to |
| 02:04.25 | Cide | essid:"linksys_ae" |
| 02:04.26 | kd3 | then run the route -n command |
| 02:04.31 | Mirrormn | fuck yeah funday monday |
| 02:04.31 | Cide | etc |
| 02:04.42 | kd3 | you should get something like: 0.0.0.0 192.168.1.1 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 wlan0 |
| 02:04.43 | Mirrormn | high fives cog|away |
| 02:04.47 | Cide | 10.42.43.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U 2 0 0 wlan0 |
| 02:04.54 | *** join/#wowuidev nebula (~nebula@c-75-73-235-102.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 02:05.07 | Cide | so totally not right |
| 02:05.08 | cogwheel | =) |
| 02:05.41 | kd3 | ok... fedora. you're probably using network manager... right click on the wireless icon, choose edit connections, go to the wireless tab |
| 02:05.52 | Cide | yep |
| 02:06.30 | kd3 | edit it, click on IPv4 settings, then the routes bottom bottom-right. make sure the "use this connection only for resources on its network" is unchecked" |
| 02:06.51 | Shirik | also |
| 02:06.56 | Shirik | my friend just flooded his house |
| 02:06.58 | Shirik | win |
| 02:07.10 | kd3 | unqualified plumbing operations? |
| 02:07.14 | Shirik | no |
| 02:07.18 | Shirik | he was punching through a wall |
| 02:07.22 | Shirik | and apparently there's water on the other side |
| 02:07.28 | Shirik | and it was like "lolllllllll" and owned him |
| 02:07.30 | Cide | ... I hope that's in minecraft |
| 02:07.33 | Shirik | yes |
| 02:07.37 | Cide | phew |
| 02:08.13 | Cide | kd3: it was set on "Method: Shared to other computers" which had routes disabled |
| 02:08.26 | Cide | I changed it to automatic (dhcp) and did that, but now it just tries to connect and then fails |
| 02:08.33 | Xyphoid | i finally found lava, took a bucket to the surface, decided to make a lava tower, and melted all my possessions |
| 02:08.34 | Xyphoid | whoops |
| 02:08.52 | |Jelly| | lol |
| 02:09.58 | kd3 | is it in infrastructure or ad-hoc mode? |
| 02:10.08 | kd3 | tries to think how NM could pull that stunt off... |
| 02:10.35 | Cide | infrastructure |
| 02:10.41 | Cide | doesn't seem to change for ad-hoc |
| 02:15.22 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 02:19.03 | Cide | whyyy |
| 02:19.07 | Cide | is this happening |
| 02:22.53 | *** part/#wowuidev cralor (~cralor@c-75-68-70-97.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 02:24.09 | Jamash | cogwheel: omg this is hilarious |
| 02:24.22 | cogwheel | ALLEN! |
| 02:25.45 | Jamash | I hadn't heard "cattle bruiser" before |
| 02:25.53 | cogwheel | hehe |
| 02:31.41 | Adys | kd3: ping |
| 02:31.50 | Adys | kd3: did you try to update the beta recently? |
| 02:31.54 | Adys | im getting "invalid torrent file" |
| 02:33.16 | kd3 | pokes his patch-finder script |
| 02:35.32 | Dagmar | Xyphoid: *Awesome*. :) |
| 02:36.51 | kd3 | no update found here |
| 02:37.56 | Dagmar | Cide: If you have housemates, it might be time to pick up a length of lead pipe and have a talk with them about rogue DHCP servers. |
| 02:38.22 | Dagmar | That should absolutely be set to infrastructure mode, and only infrastructure mode, BTW |
| 02:38.35 | Cide | my dhcp server is fine |
| 02:38.37 | Cide | my atheros driver isn't |
| 02:38.43 | Dagmar | Oh... |
| 02:38.45 | Dagmar | Yep. |
| 02:38.52 | Dagmar | If it's Atheros, you're probably right. |
| 02:39.32 | Cide | can I revert to the default driver offline somehow easily? |
| 02:39.51 | Cide | I installed ath9k but not sure what I had before that |
| 02:40.19 | Dagmar | If you uninstall that, assuming that it managed to take precedent over the previous driver, it should take back over |
| 02:40.45 | Dagmar | ...although I would reboot on general principle because those fucking atheros chipsets are prone to never behaving right after they've been prodded the wrong way. |
| 02:41.08 | Cide | trying that |
| 02:43.12 | Cide | meh |
| 02:43.14 | Cide | doesn't seem to work |
| 02:43.20 | Dagmar | DAmn |
| 02:43.25 | Cide | the network manager doesn't give much info |
| 02:43.34 | Cide | why it's not connecting |
| 02:43.50 | Ama|raid | yay, we've got P2 down :) |
| 02:44.12 | Humbedooh | p2? |
| 02:45.51 | Cide | yess |
| 02:46.09 | Cide | it works when I put in the ip configuration manually |
| 02:46.16 | Cide | so I guess the dhcp stuff wasn't working properly |
| 02:46.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (~Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:46.50 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 02:49.10 | Adys | kd3: can you give me your realmlist file? |
| 02:49.30 | Adys | Data/enUS/realmlist.wtf |
| 02:49.49 | kd3 | http://wowi.pastey.net/141187 |
| 02:50.04 | Adys | i have same here |
| 02:50.05 | Adys | hm |
| 02:50.30 | cogwheel | Sixen: stop bugging day9 while he's live :P |
| 02:50.52 | cogwheel | (saw you in his chat windows :P) |
| 02:51.05 | Adys | and now the launcher is frozen. |
| 02:51.17 | kd3 | new tools update |
| 02:51.19 | kd3 | huh |
| 02:51.21 | kd3 | ponders... |
| 02:55.51 | kd3 | nothing outside of a tools update |
| 02:55.53 | kd3 | just logged in |
| 02:56.37 | Yssaril | whats the pattern item that fixes a pattern to the start and to the end of a string? |
| 02:56.47 | kd3 | ^ and $, respectively |
| 02:56.54 | Yssaril | thanks |
| 02:57.25 | *** join/#wowuidev SeanK (~SeanK@pool-98-117-120-73.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 03:02.18 | kd3 | oh, amarande: "No changes are being made to raid mounts in patch 4.0.1. " |
| 03:03.14 | *** join/#wowuidev malreth (~triti@cpe-24-28-9-196.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 03:04.20 | Adys | i deleted a bunch of files and now it works |
| 03:04.37 | Adys | total download remaining: 415mb |
| 03:04.38 | Adys | GAH. |
| 03:05.20 | Adys | oh well |
| 03:05.29 | Adys | at least now i get to watch the cute progress bar, it's animated now |
| 03:05.29 | Adys | right |
| 03:05.42 | Thunder_Child | it would be nice if there was an easy way to bug report the launcher |
| 03:06.43 | Adys | well |
| 03:06.47 | Adys | you can already bug the launcher |
| 03:06.51 | Adys | so that's half the work done. |
| 03:07.02 | Thunder_Child | the easy half |
| 03:07.35 | Thunder_Child | most people dont report bugs because it's the more labor intensive part |
| 03:08.50 | Shirik | hrm |
| 03:09.02 | Shirik | there's something wrong with you when you read over your history notes and see "Epic fail" pointing at something in the margins |
| 03:09.07 | *** join/#wowuidev kapipi (~tor@raichu.netlab.jp) |
| 03:09.15 | kd3 | lol |
| 03:09.29 | Adys | woot |
| 03:09.34 | Adys | lie to me s3e1 out |
| 03:09.36 | Adys | \o/ |
| 03:16.02 | Lunessa | ... http://graphjam.com/2010/09/30/funny-graphs-robot-girlfriend/ ... LULZ |
| 03:16.36 | Adys | Lunessa: http://graphjam.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/8a2ef8a4-3eb7-42bc-bbcd-85acf937f52b.png |
| 03:17.09 | Lunessa | Adys: Good thing my last vegas trip pre-dates facebook |
| 03:17.41 | Adys | what I don't understand is how there can be so many more trips to vegas since the release of facebook |
| 03:18.18 | Lunessa | 'cause people mistakenly believe that no one will post those pictures. |
| 03:21.55 | Cairenn | lol |
| 03:25.16 | Kraps | "MoH doesn't worth $60." |
| 03:26.46 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (~airtonix@unaffiliated/airtonix) |
| 03:29.14 | Adys | kd3: can you do me a favour? |
| 03:29.25 | kd3 | maybe? |
| 03:29.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (~chatzilla@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 03:29.54 | Adys | kd3: md5sum 13* in Data/ |
| 03:29.59 | Adys | in cataclysm folder |
| 03:30.10 | Adys | er |
| 03:30.14 | Adys | wow-update-13* |
| 03:30.17 | tem | OMFG YAY |
| 03:30.28 | tem | We changed Rune Strike to: after a dodge or parry or whenever you are in Blood Presence. |
| 03:30.36 | kd3 | 4f9b178ceb2fbce7073343cfe9c91cba wow-update-13066.MPQ |
| 03:30.36 | kd3 | 96a9fa85007fac9e914bf5354764207c wow-update-13117.MPQ |
| 03:30.41 | tem | IT ONLY TOOK SIZ MONTHS OF COMPLAINING |
| 03:30.43 | tem | BUT YAY |
| 03:30.53 | Adys | chanks |
| 03:30.57 | Adys | er |
| 03:31.04 | Adys | i cant pick |
| 03:31.06 | Adys | you pick |
| 03:35.32 | Jerub | so does anyone know about this thing with how queued attacks will work is working? |
| 03:36.02 | kd3 | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=26859116137&pageNo=11&sid=2000#214 |
| 03:36.26 | Kandoko | Now what am I doing wrong, can't seem to earn any guild rep |
| 03:36.53 | Jerub | fix an exploit? weird. |
| 03:37.20 | kd3 | kandoko; what are you doing? |
| 03:38.10 | Kandoko | kd3 that would explain the lag but not really lag feeling I get sometimes from my attacks |
| 03:38.43 | Xyphoid | Jerub: i thought they were ditching all the queued attacks? |
| 03:39.00 | Kandoko | Questing atm, I was gaining steadily the first day, but last 2 days have been stuck at 9374/12000 |
| 03:39.06 | Xyphoid | oh nm didn't read the link |
| 03:40.02 | Kandoko | First time I've payed any attntion to the guild system, so was wondering if I was overlooking something silly I needed to do. |
| 03:40.31 | kd3 | things may have changed after the hotfix that just happened |
| 03:40.42 | kd3 | low-level questing rewards fractions of a point of guild rep |
| 03:40.51 | kd3 | do things like dungeon runs to get more |
| 03:42.11 | *** join/#wowuidev cogwheel (632153a0@WoWUIDev/WoWProgramming/morlando/cogwheel) |
| 03:42.24 | Kandoko | questing Uldum atm 83. Will try and get into a guild run for soemthing when I can see if it changes anything |
| 03:42.24 | cogwheel | shakes his fist at his switch |
| 03:44.18 | Motig | don't frighten the switch! bad things may happen |
| 03:50.30 | cogwheel | Motig: you have the cause and effect backwards :( switch go bye-bye |
| 03:51.49 | *** join/#wowuidev taroven (taroven|Co@HW-ESR1-208-102-8-69.fuse.net) |
| 03:53.36 | Amarande | SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE |
| 03:53.46 | Jerub | Amarande: you killed the lich king finally? |
| 03:54.06 | Amarande | WE GOT IT |
| 03:54.27 | Dewin | Grats. |
| 03:54.42 | Amarande | P2, by far, is harder than the hardest things of this earth to learn, apparently |
| 03:54.44 | Dewin | We finally killed him on heroic (10 man) |
| 03:54.47 | Amarande | once you get to P3, he goes DOWN |
| 03:54.54 | Amarande | unless you have bad luck like our first P3 |
| 03:55.01 | Jerub | Amarande: yes. if you have 7-8 of the raid alive in p3, you've already won |
| 03:55.16 | taroven | Anyone know why texture:SetGradientAlpha('VERTICAL',0,0,0,0.7,0,0,0,0) won't do anything to a 1px-wide edge? Works fine for other textures I use similar code with. |
| 03:55.16 | Jerub | Amarande: it's very hard to fuck up p3 |
| 03:55.16 | tem | harvest souls / vile spirits phase is SO much easier than the rest |
| 03:55.18 | Dewin | Jerub: Unless the 2 that are dead are the tanks :-p |
| 03:55.29 | Jerub | Dewin: you 2 tank LK? |
| 03:55.37 | tem | you HAVE to two hand LK |
| 03:55.40 | Dewin | On heroic, yes. |
| 03:55.45 | Dewin | On regular, two tanking isn't required. |
| 03:55.49 | Dewin | (but we still do) |
| 03:55.49 | tem | unless you're in full 277 gear doing 10 man |
| 03:56.02 | tem | I'm not saying do a tank swap |
| 03:56.03 | Dewin | well, I suppose horrors would make single tanking kinda hard |
| 03:56.08 | tem | but you need two tanks in the group |
| 03:56.12 | Jerub | tem: just need a hybrid tank/dps to do a bit of tanking in p1 and transitions. |
| 03:56.14 | tem | because of the horrors in phase 1 |
| 03:56.26 | tem | there's no such thing as a hybrid tank/dps |
| 03:56.34 | tem | not in heroic mode, anyway |
| 03:56.39 | Jerub | not talking about H |
| 03:56.49 | Jerub | god. i've only got 3/12 heroics in 10man. |
| 03:56.55 | Mirrormn | you don't know nothin about HLK, tem |
| 03:56.59 | Amarande | Jerub: yeah, there was only one real reason we wiped hard in P3 the first time |
| 03:57.05 | tem | stop trolling me, Mirrored |
| 03:57.07 | taroven | Correction: SetGradientAlpha is doing nothing at all to a 1px-wide edge. HALP. =\ |
| 03:57.12 | Mirrormn | ok :( |
| 03:57.15 | tem | I'm trying to level archeology! |
| 03:57.15 | Amarande | we were also still learning P2, so we were running a risky setup with only 2 healers to make the valks easier |
| 03:57.23 | Mirrormn | did you watch funday monday earlier? |
| 03:57.27 | tem | also, I'm being giddy because of the RS fix |
| 03:57.28 | tem | not yet |
| 03:57.29 | Amarande | especially since we needed harder DPS on the valks since we also had a DPS set that was kinda short on good CC |
| 03:57.36 | *** join/#wowuidev malreth (~triti@cpe-24-28-9-196.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 03:57.43 | Mirrormn | it was the best one yet ^_^ |
| 03:57.45 | tem | I kind of hate terran, so I'm torn. On the one hand, it's a super good FU restriction on them |
| 03:57.48 | Amarande | first time, a healer got grabbed off the bat and then we didn't have enough heals for P3 |
| 03:57.50 | Dewin | Amarande: For heroic, you only want 2 healers anyways. |
| 03:57.53 | tem | but on the other, I have to watch terran :( |
| 03:57.55 | Amarande | second time, it kept grabbing DPS so we were gold |
| 03:57.59 | Dewin | so good way to learn it. |
| 03:58.11 | Jerub | tem: RS fix? |
| 03:58.15 | Mirrormn | not only that, but I think 3/4 of the games are TvT :P |
| 03:58.21 | tem | haha |
| 03:58.23 | Jerub | oh, rune strike, not ruby sanctum |
| 03:58.30 | Dewin | We also learned a nice trick to speed up killing horrors |
| 03:58.34 | Mirrormn | it was still awesome |
| 03:58.37 | tem | "We changed Rune Strike to: after a dodge or parry or whenever you are in Blood Presence." |
| 03:58.55 | tem | do I have to wait until tomorrow or whatever to watch it now? |
| 03:59.05 | tem | or is it up somewhere that I can see? |
| 03:59.25 | Mirrormn | he usually puts them on bliptv a couple hours after the daily |
| 03:59.30 | Mirrormn | but... sometimes not |
| 04:00.00 | Amarande | tem, shouldn't they just make it Requires Blood Presence? :) |
| 04:00.01 | Amarande | I mean |
| 04:00.07 | Amarande | when do you EVER want to use RS when you are not a tank? |
| 04:00.14 | tem | Death Knigh spells do not require a presence |
| 04:00.14 | Mirrormn | soloing |
| 04:00.25 | Mirrormn | they *could* |
| 04:00.26 | tem | this is a critial feature of being a DK and not being a warrior |
| 04:00.35 | tem | (it's something they've mentioned) |
| 04:00.42 | Amarande | ah yes. :) |
| 04:00.55 | Amarande | but still, if you're not using blood presence, you probably don't want to use it anyway, so it's moot |
| 04:01.00 | tem | They were talking about how they wanted to distinguish presences and stances |
| 04:01.04 | Amarande | unless unholy has use for it |
| 04:01.13 | Amarande | Frost, of course, wants to use Frost Strike whenever doing a RP based melee |
| 04:01.15 | tem | and it not changing your available spells was one of the key points |
| 04:01.32 | tem | RS does less damage than DC and FS for unholy and frost respectively |
| 04:01.36 | tem | they have no reason to cast it |
| 04:01.58 | Jerub | has anyone put together a transition survival guide yet? |
| 04:02.01 | Adys | kd3: screw this |
| 04:02.04 | Adys | can you send me wow.exe ? |
| 04:02.06 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wowiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 04:02.06 | Adys | 13117 |
| 04:02.15 | Adys | [05:02:07] <Adys> kd3: screw this |
| 04:02.15 | Adys | [05:02:10] <Adys> can you send me wow.exe 13117? |
| 04:02.19 | kd3 | sec |
| 04:02.36 | Adys | (pro hostchanging when i ask a service. >:() |
| 04:03.00 | Jerub | heh |
| 04:03.02 | Jerub | 14:02 -!- kd3 [~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree] has quit [Changing host] |
| 04:03.02 | Jerub | 14:02 -!- kd3 [~kd3@wowiki/Kaydeethree] has joined #wowuidev |
| 04:03.09 | kd3 | woot! |
| 04:03.18 | kd3 | er, almost |
| 04:03.25 | Adys | nice typo. |
| 04:03.43 | kd3 | pokes freenode staff again |
| 04:04.47 | Amarande | Jerub: yeah, you need to make sure you're close enough to the edge when you push the Lich King past 40%, that's the main thing. :) |
| 04:04.50 | Amarande | And don't run into ice orbs |
| 04:04.56 | Amarande | oh, not that transition? :) |
| 04:05.22 | Amarande | speaking of those ice orbs |
| 04:05.27 | Amarande | if you get knocked away by one of those and don't release |
| 04:05.29 | Amarande | do you EVER stop moving? |
| 04:06.03 | Jerub | kd3: hehe |
| 04:06.10 | Jerub | i recently got our masks sorted out :) |
| 04:06.39 | kd3 | meh; the hostchange didn't disconnect me |
| 04:06.47 | kd3 | I didn't even notice until someone pasted it to me |
| 04:07.05 | kd3 | waits some more for the upload to gmail to finish |
| 04:10.05 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 04:10.33 | Mirrormn | Amarande: I believe you hit the ground after a long long time |
| 04:12.02 | kd3 | yay |
| 04:12.16 | kd3 | keeps waiting |
| 04:12.21 | kd3 | c'mon adsl... go! |
| 04:14.19 | Dewin | Mirrormn: Nope, you don't. The map eventually wraps |
| 04:16.46 | Amarande | heh, so the ice orbs literally make you fall forever? :) |
| 04:17.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Zernin (~chatzilla@adsl-99-33-94-107.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 04:18.09 | Amarande | also wowhead uses a dreadful amount of memory on firefox it seems ... what's with that? |
| 04:19.11 | kd3 | adys; sent, finally |
| 04:19.24 | Adys | cheers |
| 04:19.40 | Adys | Amarande: wowhead's ads and js are absolutely craptastic |
| 04:22.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Arrowmaster (arrow@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ResponsibleForEverythingAndNothing/Arrowmaster) |
| 04:22.37 | airtonix | lulz load average 33.09 |
| 04:26.52 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@user-1121k8v.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 04:26.52 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 04:26.52 | Kraps | http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/707836/taliban-removed-from-medal-of-honor.html |
| 04:30.45 | Kraps | Thunder_Child: ping |
| 04:40.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (~Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 04:44.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Schnaks (~Schnaks@p4FC4D848.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 04:44.57 | Shirik | ok minecraft is a little insane |
| 04:45.29 | cogwheel | amro: being not lazy now =) |
| 04:47.10 | |Jelly| | a little? |
| 04:47.22 | airtonix | i guess a pentium4 is too weak for zentyal 2.0 |
| 04:47.52 | airtonix | or maybe 512mb sdram is not enough |
| 04:47.59 | Amarande | orbis non sufficit, airtonix |
| 04:48.25 | airtonix | yeah load average is 30 with all the services enabled |
| 04:49.50 | Shirik | |Jelly| |
| 04:49.51 | airtonix | zzzz |
| 04:49.57 | Shirik | this whole redstone crap |
| 04:49.59 | |Jelly| | yes? |
| 04:50.03 | Shirik | and the fact that you can make flip flops out of it |
| 04:50.05 | Shirik | is wtf |
| 04:50.44 | airtonix | flipflops Shirik |
| 04:50.46 | |Jelly| | So make that guy's RAM for him :P |
| 04:50.54 | Shirik | my roommate and I were joking about that |
| 04:50.57 | Shirik | make 1GB of ram |
| 04:51.04 | |Jelly| | do it |
| 04:51.06 | Shirik | but I don't really get what he was complaining about - RAM should be easy |
| 04:51.29 | airtonix | yeah it should have : [ok | cancel] buttons |
| 04:51.48 | |Jelly| | so ... gogo :P |
| 04:51.48 | Shirik | NO |
| 04:51.50 | Shirik | I refuse to get that game |
| 04:51.53 | airtonix | and a [ next ] button |
| 04:52.05 | airtonix | (quite a few of them) |
| 04:52.15 | airtonix | (in different places at each step) |
| 04:52.21 | |Jelly| | lol |
| 04:52.30 | |Jelly| | It's ok Shirik; give it! Go to the light! |
| 04:52.32 | Shirik | no |
| 04:52.45 | airtonix | www.helpfundshiriksplight.com |
| 04:52.56 | Adys | kd3: thanks a lot btw, fixed my issues |
| 04:55.00 | |Jelly| | :( |
| 04:58.28 | Dagmar | Shirik: Well, the idea seems to be that one could construct more complex mechanical traps (apparently at one point they were gears) but I've yet to see much that's really useful being created with it |
| 04:59.02 | Dagmar | The Runecraft server mod for SMP uses it more like demon dust in various rune designs. |
| 04:59.20 | Kemayo | Shirik: Join ussssss... |
| 04:59.39 | |Jelly| | Shirik! Do it for my birthday! |
| 04:59.42 | airtonix | bloody peasants |
| 04:59.44 | |Jelly| | Now you gotta do it! :P |
| 05:01.55 | Shirik | no |Jelly| |
| 05:02.02 | Shirik | Dagmar |
| 05:02.06 | Shirik | someone created a gd ALU |
| 05:02.13 | Shirik | why, I don't know |
| 05:02.14 | Shirik | but he did |
| 05:02.18 | Dagmar | Yeah, and it's not a reliable construction. |
| 05:02.24 | Shirik | eh? |
| 05:02.49 | Dagmar | You're not guaranteed any circuit (which is 16 blocks in length, max) will actually communicate a signal at a fixed rate |
| 05:03.09 | |Jelly| | lol |
| 05:03.13 | Shirik | just like any electrical signal? |
| 05:03.21 | Dagmar | So, anything that diverges a line and expects the two resulting inputs will be in synch later will be in for a shock |
| 05:03.42 | Dagmar | You don't really have that with a spliced copper wire. |
| 05:03.47 | Shirik | that's why you make a clock and D gate |
| 05:03.49 | Shirik | yes yo udo |
| 05:04.56 | Shirik | anyway |
| 05:05.02 | Dagmar | Not at the sizes of whole meters. |
| 05:05.03 | Shirik | my friend wants to create a christmas house |
| 05:05.12 | Shirik | with rotating lights and all |
| 05:05.35 | Dagmar | You could make twinkling redstone torches, yeah |
| 05:06.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (~Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 05:08.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Proditor (~Proditor@c80-217-77-195.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 05:13.46 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@adsl-226-70-200.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 05:17.19 | *** join/#wowuidev olafski (~egrimm@dream.student.utwente.nl) |
| 05:17.41 | Jerub | http://i.imgur.com/Xp10R.gif |
| 05:25.15 | Humbedooh | hrr |
| 05:25.57 | Shirik | ok so |
| 05:26.03 | Shirik | how the fuck do you input into something |
| 05:26.12 | |Jelly| | with a keyboard |
| 05:26.23 | Shirik | if I try to input into a redstone torch it interferes with the rest of the circuit because it flows backward |
| 05:26.38 | Shirik | let's say I have circuit A that produces an output |
| 05:26.42 | Shirik | and circuit B takes an input |
| 05:26.45 | |Jelly| | SHIRIK IS PLAYING MINECRAFT! |
| 05:26.47 | Shirik | how am I supposed to connect A to B |
| 05:26.47 | Shirik | no |
| 05:26.49 | Shirik | my roommate is |
| 05:27.02 | Jerub | suuure |
| 05:31.41 | Jamash | his roommate (who lives in canada) |
| 05:36.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Networkerror (~evonder@unaffiliated/evonder) |
| 05:38.09 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 05:41.30 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 05:41.32 | Fisker | i'm awesome |
| 05:48.45 | tem | WORLD OF WALKINGAROUNDCRAFT |
| 05:48.48 | tem | lol trade chat |
| 05:48.54 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 05:49.14 | mikma | tem <3 |
| 05:50.23 | Amarande | bah speaking of walking around I forgot to buy a new egg tonight |
| 05:50.29 | Amarande | meh, I'll do it tomorrow |
| 05:51.37 | Jerub | tem: how's levelling archaeology going? |
| 05:51.52 | Amarande | btw, the only fixed ways to go to/from northrend in cata are going to be the zepps/boats and flying up to the Sholazar portal in Un'Goro? |
| 05:51.58 | tem | I just found my first rare |
| 05:52.08 | Shirik | gd redstone |
| 05:52.11 | tem | and I'm very disappointed that it only gives 5 skill (the same as common artifacts) |
| 05:52.16 | Shirik | who the hell makes a transistor that powers itself |
| 05:52.24 | Jerub | oh, any artifact is 5 skill? |
| 05:52.25 | Shirik | do you have any idea how fucked up that is |
| 05:52.49 | Amarande | Shirik: that sounds like a way to cause an unchecked power buildup and super massive explosion :D |
| 05:53.25 | Jerub | mmmexplosion |
| 05:53.38 | tem | Jerub, until around 100, you get 1 skill each time you find a cache |
| 05:53.55 | tem | after that point, you only get skill from completing artifacts |
| 05:54.06 | tem | so far, it's been 5 skill for each artifact |
| 05:54.12 | Amarande | tem: are artifacts usable/equippable items or only worth gold? |
| 05:54.33 | Amarande | I haven't really played around with Archaeology at all yet |
| 05:54.33 | tem | all common artifacts that I've found are grey items that are worth ~15 silver |
| 05:54.50 | tem | (I assume that value will go up as my skill goes up. I'm only 300 just now) |
| 05:55.12 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 05:55.17 | tem | Most of the rare artifacts are vanity items |
| 05:55.24 | tem | the one I found is a companion pet |
| 05:55.51 | Jerub | oh nice |
| 05:55.55 | Jerub | so a pet already. |
| 05:56.02 | Jerub | is it BOA or BOP ? |
| 05:56.29 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 05:56.50 | Fisker | tell your mom i said hello Shirik |
| 05:57.15 | Shirik | Fisker |
| 05:57.26 | Shirik | tell your dad i said goodbye Fisker |
| 05:58.44 | tem | I didn't notice actually |
| 05:58.49 | tem | I think it was bop |
| 05:58.52 | Fisker | no Shirik |
| 05:58.54 | Fisker | i will not |
| 05:59.00 | Fisker | i am not your mom |
| 06:00.10 | Amarande | tem: that makes sense, actually |
| 06:00.18 | Amarande | I recall hearing that all the rare artifacts are one-time-each finds |
| 06:00.20 | Fisker | one thing to know Shirik is that i'm awesome |
| 06:00.33 | Amarande | which kinda suggests they would be likelyish to be BoP |
| 06:00.38 | tem | I'm pretty sure all artifacts are one-time-each |
| 06:00.50 | tem | since it catalogues them for you as you find them |
| 06:01.04 | Shirik | Fisker, I am awesomer |
| 06:01.50 | Jerub | i hope archaeology will be enjoyable while levelling |
| 06:01.59 | Jerub | i don't look forward to binging on it. |
| 06:02.05 | Jerub | i find fishing deathly boring, for example. |
| 06:02.18 | Amarande | Ehh, fishing is relaxing though |
| 06:02.24 | Amarande | you can just stand there and chat in your guild chat while you fish |
| 06:02.40 | Fisker | no you are hot Shirik |
| 06:02.45 | Fisker | not* |
| 06:03.08 | Jerub | my guild chat is all, 'omg brandi's on, tank an instance for my nub alt' when i chat |
| 06:03.22 | Dagmar | Jerub: At least Archaeology looks like it will let you stretch your legs a bit |
| 06:03.48 | *** topic/#wowuidev by Shirik -> http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ || 3.3.x ToC: 30300 || #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting || Cata Beta UI download: http://bit.ly/cvplpG || Are you going to BlizzCon (Oct 22 & 23)? http://tinyurl.com/22kjfxu || 5th Annual UI Community Dinner http://fb.me/JFXVE9Zh | "you are hot Shirik" - Fisker |
| 06:04.29 | Dagmar | Shirik: That "tell your dad" thing doesn't really work so well as a retort. heh |
| 06:04.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Guardix-lagtop (~Martin@edu-clients.nat.esnord.dk) |
| 06:04.51 | tem | fuck me sideways |
| 06:04.53 | Amarande | Dagmar: but does it work as a beaker? *ducks* |
| 06:04.58 | tem | I'm stuck in a prison of invisible walls |
| 06:06.53 | Amarande | tem: where? |
| 06:07.03 | tem | Ferelas |
| 06:07.08 | tem | RIGHT next to a digsite |
| 06:08.06 | Amarande | trying to think where that might be. |
| 06:08.19 | Amarande | I'm foggy on the changes to Feralas, besides the fact that the island with the chimaeroks is going 50 feet under |
| 06:08.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (Vilkku@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe0bfa00-122.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 06:08.46 | Amarande | which means yay, no having to decide whether to spend 5,000g on the chops recipe because there's no use for it after cata comes out anyway |
| 06:09.21 | unfo- | 5k on a recipe, w0t? |
| 06:09.38 | Amarande | unfo: it's a, actually the only ever, epic cooking recipe |
| 06:09.52 | Amarande | comes from the AQ40 quest chain |
| 06:10.26 | Amarande | which chain is going away in cata, but don't worry about it, because chimaeroks are going away in cata too :) |
| 06:10.59 | *** part/#wowuidev orionshock (~orionshoc@ip68-226-31-193.tc.ph.cox.net) |
| 06:11.13 | Jerub | Amarande: link or it didn't happen |
| 06:11.34 | Amarande | I think the main thing now that you might REALLY want to invest time in the AQ40 chain for is the underwater breathing ring, and even that's kinda getting old with the kalu'ak fishing pole |
| 06:11.37 | Amarande | Jerub: link what? |
| 06:11.45 | Jerub | Amarande: the recipe you're talking about |
| 06:12.04 | unfo- | Amarande, epic cooking o___O mind==blown |
| 06:12.06 | Amarande | http://www.wowhead.com/item=21025 |
| 06:12.22 | Amarande | I don't have it. It and of course Thistle Tea are the ONLY cooking recipes my warlock doesn't know, *period*. |
| 06:12.26 | Dagmar | Meh. If they make an underwater zone or something you know there'll be a gimme item somewhere nearby that lets you breathe in it |
| 06:13.08 | Amarande | Dagmar: and there's always purple lotus, ichor of undeath, and your friendly neighborhood alchemist :) |
| 06:13.37 | Jerub | or druids |
| 06:13.39 | Jerub | :P |
| 06:13.46 | unfo- | or warlocks |
| 06:13.56 | unfo- | or eating nagrand poo |
| 06:14.32 | Jerub | was that a good food buff for vanilla? |
| 06:15.10 | Amarande | Jerub: I think 25 stam was the best stamina food buff you could get |
| 06:15.11 | Fisker | http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/27026377821/guild-member-caps-for-cataclysm <-that seems stupid |
| 06:15.12 | unfo- | chocolate sauce, i think, works great for vanilla ;-----D |
| 06:15.26 | Amarande | actually, I'm not even sure off the top of my head now if BC recipes even gave more |
| 06:15.38 | Amarande | I think the 30 stam food is LK but I'm foggy on which recipes came when now |
| 06:16.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Arrowmaster (arrow@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ResponsibleForEverythingAndNothing/Arrowmaster) |
| 06:16.38 | Shadowed | nicoli_s: ping |
| 06:16.46 | unfo- | Fisker, you think having >600 is just fine and normal? |
| 06:16.47 | Fisker | Shadowed |
| 06:16.48 | Fisker | hey |
| 06:17.10 | Amarande | Fisker: ehh, how do you get over 600 members anyway? :) |
| 06:17.23 | Fisker | invite over 600 members? |
| 06:17.35 | Amarande | although what WAS quite stupid and fail was how, on the test realms anyway, they apparently considered handling existing guilds with more than that |
| 06:17.48 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 06:17.50 | Amarande | Fisker: I'm just trying to imagine a guild that big and I don't think I've ever seen one come close |
| 06:18.22 | Amarande | my friends guild that my alts are in has about 160 ... my raiding guild has about 50. |
| 06:18.30 | unfo- | well 75 players with full 8 alts all |
| 06:18.47 | Fisker | still silly |
| 06:18.48 | unfo- | but still tho', that's a lot of chars in one guild |
| 06:19.05 | Amarande | the fail was that they were considering handling overcapped guilds by *randomly gkicking people without notice to bring them to cap* |
| 06:19.17 | Amarande | I don't think there's a word to describe how fail that is |
| 06:19.37 | Fisker | the fail is that the system can handle 600+ members but they're just arbitrarily restricting it to 600 |
| 06:19.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@pool012.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 06:19.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 06:19.45 | Amarande | that's even worse than the whole Essence of Immortal fiasco on 2.4's PTR way back when :) |
| 06:19.48 | unfo- | Amarande, i would guess there is a difference between "consider something" and "doing something in ptr because we haven't implemented anything sane yet" |
| 06:20.15 | Amarande | unfo: it wouldn't be the first time Blizzard has shown a callous lack of care for guild groups, though |
| 06:20.29 | Amarande | unfo: remember all the Free Character Moves they did to balance realm populations in BC? :) |
| 06:20.33 | unfo- | Fisker, i don't think their systems could handle >600 in a sane way if things start to get complex with quest/achi tracking etc |
| 06:20.41 | *** join/#wowuidev zenzio (~zenzio__@85.19.77.194) |
| 06:21.03 | unfo- | Amarande, they did those in LK too, but yeah |
| 06:21.34 | Amarande | unfo: I can't remember a single one of those that didn't end with enough tears to flood Azeroth up to Hyjal from guilds that were torn apart by the way they handled them |
| 06:21.53 | Jerub | hey, Amarande. |
| 06:21.56 | Jerub | Amarande: i'm confused about something. |
| 06:22.03 | Amarande | Jerub, what's that? |
| 06:22.25 | Jerub | Amarande: entire african villages get their water supply from the QQ of your tears, and i haven't heard a word about the 10+25 combined raidlock QQ from you? |
| 06:22.42 | Amarande | Jerub: that's because I fairly rarely do 25's |
| 06:23.01 | Amarande | my raiding guild basically only ever does 10's, with the occasional VOA 25 mostly on the big-group front |
| 06:23.31 | Amarande | and honestly, I'm rather happy with the continued transition towards smaller raids |
| 06:23.44 | Jerub | wow. |
| 06:23.46 | Jerub | that's amazing. |
| 06:24.05 | *** join/#wowuidev robokitten (~roboe@50A2E6C0.flatrate.dk) |
| 06:24.15 | Amarande | also, my computer barely handles 25's well enough for me to DPS decently |
| 06:24.21 | Fisker | btw |
| 06:24.25 | Amarande | and I don't think I'd EVER be able to tank them :P |
| 06:24.32 | Fisker | they should so make guild members per account |
| 06:24.42 | Amarande | Fisker: I both like and dislike that idea |
| 06:24.44 | Fisker | and unfo- they say they can, so why shouldn't they be able to? |
| 06:24.47 | Amarande | I like how it worked in Guild Wars |
| 06:24.48 | Jerub | hehehe |
| 06:24.59 | Jerub | Fisker: my guild has multiple people with 9 80s. |
| 06:25.05 | Amarande | however, per account guild membership would make it impossible for anyone to belong to more than one guild per server/faction combination, of course |
| 06:25.33 | Amarande | and seeing as myself and several of my friends have split guild membership where we keep our main in a raiding guild and our alts in a friends guild, that would irk me. |
| 06:25.45 | Fisker | not like you should be forced in a guild on your whole account |
| 06:26.05 | Fisker | just that your account should account for 1 member and have all your joined members under the same main character |
| 06:26.05 | zenzio | just introduce an /inviteall that gives a player the option to Join, Join with All (unguilded) characters, Reject |
| 06:26.16 | Amarande | Fisker: you're basically describing how Guild Wars does it though, where accounts rather than characters belong to guilds |
| 06:26.24 | Amarande | zenzio: yeah that makes better sense |
| 06:26.44 | Amarande | you know, what I WOULD like though |
| 06:26.55 | Amarande | is a means for people with invite privileges in a guild to invite their own alts |
| 06:27.12 | Amarande | maybe a BOA item that joins the character who uses it to the guild it's tagged to |
| 06:27.25 | zenzio | would be nice, yeah |
| 06:27.47 | Amarande | would be a perfect use of the guild items system stuff, too |
| 06:27.56 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 06:28.29 | Amarande | as for the 10+25 raidlock combination, the other thing about that is |
| 06:28.49 | Amarande | it would only really bother me if there was still *different* loot from Cata raids on the different raid sizes |
| 06:28.56 | Amarande | and you had to choose only one or the other to try for each week |
| 06:29.03 | Amarande | but there isn't, cata raids give the same items no matter what raid size |
| 06:29.30 | Amarande | btw, in cata raids, do you get the same number of currency points whether you down a boss on 10 or 25? |
| 06:29.54 | Shirik | sleep && alarm -t `bc 60*60*6` |
| 06:30.17 | zenzio | dude, I thought you knew mathematics |
| 06:31.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Bibi- (~Bibi@AVelizy-151-1-38-112.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 06:36.27 | zenzio | "The lack of a complete underlying CLI interface (...)" *twitch* |
| 06:36.51 | zenzio | sup dawg, I heard you like interfaces, so I put an interface in your interface so you can interface while you interface |
| 06:44.05 | Jerub | fuck transferring both realm and faction is expesnive |
| 06:44.32 | Jerub | no wonder i put this off for so long |
| 06:50.01 | Amarande | Jerub: reroll? :) |
| 06:50.10 | cogwheel | yo dawg i herd yo and yo dawg like yo yos so we put yo dawg in a yo yo so yo can yo yo yo dawg while yo dawg yo yos, dawg |
| 06:50.53 | Jerub | nah, want an 80 over on that realm so i can play with friends |
| 06:51.00 | Jerub | but they're on another realm and another faction |
| 06:51.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Guardix-lagtop (~Martin@edu-clients.nat.esnord.dk) |
| 06:57.23 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy|lap (~stolenleg@193.170.222.163) |
| 07:02.53 | Jerub | http://img.thedailywtf.com/images/201009/errord/Resolution.png |
| 07:02.55 | Jerub | i want his monitor |
| 07:03.47 | unfo- | ;D |
| 07:04.25 | zenzio | nah... imagine the videocard you'd need to get good framerates on that |
| 07:04.51 | unfo- | the game that would support that resolution? |
| 07:06.15 | zenzio | I by far prefer games that are mostly resolution-agnostic |
| 07:12.39 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 07:13.19 | *** join/#wowuidev rikai (~rikai@unaffiliated/rikai) |
| 07:14.07 | Galvin | slaps wereHamster around a bit with a large trout |
| 07:14.08 | *** join/#wowuidev the-golem (~Darrin@c-98-255-201-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 07:16.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Limbero (~Limbero@c83-250-2-110.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 07:20.27 | tem | oh wow |
| 07:20.34 | tem | I just found a BoA epic cloth chest |
| 07:20.37 | Fisker | slaps tem around a bit with a large trout |
| 07:20.45 | Fisker | slaps cogwheel around a bit with a large trout |
| 07:20.47 | tem | requires level 60 |
| 07:20.53 | tem | item level 67 |
| 07:21.04 | unfo- | tem, archeology? |
| 07:21.09 | tem | yeah |
| 07:22.53 | unfo- | tem, beats mining/herbing? |
| 07:23.05 | tem | I just can't figure out why I would ever use it |
| 07:23.14 | tem | the heirloom cloth is likely just as good |
| 07:23.18 | tem | and boosts exp |
| 07:23.26 | tem | and scales with level |
| 07:24.16 | Amarande | also isn't ilvl 67 stuff basically useless because at that point you'll be getting ilvl 81+ stuff from BC? |
| 07:24.39 | tem | at level 60? |
| 07:24.42 | tem | I'm not sure tbh |
| 07:24.56 | unfo- | at level 58 in outland |
| 07:25.03 | Amarande | LOL I love this interstitial bit on Card Sharks on GSN |
| 07:25.04 | Amarande | "Do you lead an interesting life full of meaning and purpose? We can fix that." |
| 07:25.13 | unfo- | unless the new content in cata is so awesome that you wanna stay until max |
| 07:25.17 | unfo- | and skip most of hellfire |
| 07:25.27 | Amarande | unfo: skipping hellfire is generally a good thing, yes |
| 07:25.31 | *** join/#wowuidev TMcMahon51 (~TMc@cpe-74-71-49-62.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 07:25.39 | Amarande | I don't know for sure why I don't like it much |
| 07:25.43 | Amarande | I think it might be because I'm Horde |
| 07:25.45 | tem | oh wow yeah, the HFP quest rewards are ilvl 81 and above |
| 07:25.45 | unfo- | Amarande, aye.. been there... soooo many times |
| 07:26.15 | Amarande | when you're Horde, you go to Durotar and see red rocks ... you go to the Barrens and see red rocks ... you go to the Badlands and see red rocks ... you go to Blasted Lands on your way to Outland and see red rocks ... |
| 07:26.19 | unfo- | i have 8 >= lvl 70 chars .... yeuch |
| 07:26.20 | Amarande | GEE, HOW ABOUT SOME MORE RED ROCKS FOR YOU. :) |
| 07:27.04 | Amarande | I think there might have been another zone that featured a lot of red rocks too, but I can't remember now. |
| 07:27.17 | Amarande | But yeah, when you get to outland, you're already getting just about sick of red rocks. |
| 07:27.36 | TMcMahon51 | Desolace, sort of. Less red, and more grey though. |
| 07:27.53 | TMcMahon51 | nothing but rocks in every zone ftl D: |
| 07:28.16 | Amarande | Welcome to World of Rockcraft. :) |
| 07:29.11 | Amarande | oh, and FAIL |
| 07:29.25 | Amarande | this guy on GSN just said "we'll allow you to win ten thousand pennies!" and pointed to a $1000 prize |
| 07:29.28 | Amarande | ummmmmmm. |
| 07:33.32 | unfo- | Amarande, yep yep! I've been saving my warrior and mage alts for cata so i can explore the content as fully as possible on ally / horde sides :) |
| 07:33.53 | unfo- | Amarande, i'm planning on getting to way past 60 before heading to outland |
| 07:34.30 | Amarande | unfo: that's what makes me a little concerned about some of the zone changes but I'll have to see just how much content there is in the 50's |
| 07:34.49 | unfo- | Amarande, well i hope they DON'T stay true to vanilla |
| 07:34.57 | unfo- | Amarande, since there was almost none |
| 07:35.11 | unfo- | i remember grinding down bears and yetis in feralas on my hunter |
| 07:35.14 | Amarande | there's barely any 55-60 pre-outland content now with Plaguelands and Burning Steppes lowered, so we might run out of stuff to do in old world before we hit the levels we're used to going to outland at. |
| 07:35.32 | unfo- | Amarande, oh shi- |
| 07:35.41 | Amarande | I wonder, are Plaguelands still going to be as Scourgey now that the Lich King is officially dead? |
| 07:35.46 | unfo- | Amarande, well best start doing "loremaster" at early zones too |
| 07:36.20 | Amarande | and is Loremaster in Azeroth still going to be continent based or is Cata going to make it zone based like Outland and NR? |
| 07:37.11 | tem | well, I compared the stats on it to the level 60 heirloom chest |
| 07:37.18 | tem | it actually is marginally better |
| 07:37.25 | tem | but you still lose 10% experience |
| 07:37.44 | tem | and by level 61, the heirloom chest is better |
| 07:37.53 | tem | so you get a couple hours out of it |
| 07:38.38 | tem | if you were leveling without the heirloom for some reason, you would still replace it with a quest reward in HFP |
| 07:39.17 | Amarande | tem: is it still going to be reasonable to get heirlooms in Cata? |
| 07:39.28 | Amarande | without freezing a character at 80, that is? |
| 07:39.29 | tem | shru |
| 07:39.30 | tem | g |
| 07:40.04 | Amarande | mostly I'm thinking that you basically have to either do Wintergrasp or run NR dungeons to get all currencies that heirlooms ... oh wait |
| 07:40.07 | Amarande | durrrrr, Ama. |
| 07:40.19 | Amarande | you won't need badges because you have justice points. :headdesk |
| 07:40.38 | Amarande | the first thing that occurred to me is "don't you need currency that only comes from Northrend dungeons, and a fair lot of it?" |
| 07:40.40 | unfo- | and you actually get JPs from old badges too \o/ |
| 07:40.49 | Amarande | then I remembered that we don't have to WORRY about that |
| 07:41.03 | Amarande | btw, are 70 heroic items still going off Badges of Justice or is that being made based on points also? |
| 07:42.04 | unfo- | well BoJs are getting converted to gold |
| 07:42.42 | Amarande | unfo: so are all 80 emblems below Triumph |
| 07:42.44 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (harl@dslb-088-076-043-225.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 07:43.16 | Amarande | so I'm wondering how the BoJ gear is going to work then |
| 07:43.57 | harl | wuff |
| 07:44.50 | Amarande | I imagine that the PvP heirlooms will be all but unattainable for most in Cata, though |
| 07:45.08 | Amarande | since those pretty much depend on people doing WG |
| 07:45.12 | Elkano | maybe gain points at 70 and lose all at 71? what will happen to the points you get for frost/triumph once we level to 85? |
| 07:45.30 | Amarande | and I have this sneaky feeling WG is going to be absolutely dead once Cata hits :) |
| 07:45.45 | Amarande | except for people needing elemental mats for leveling professions through the Northrend curve |
| 07:46.00 | zenzio | http://verydemotivational.com/2010/10/04/demotivational-posters-smartphones/ |
| 07:46.06 | Amarande | Elkano: we keep them |
| 07:46.31 | Amarande | there's two types of points, which we like to call here "good points" and "suck points". I know the "Justice Points" are the suck points, but I'm not sure what the good points are officially called |
| 07:46.52 | Amarande | Good points will basically be acquired the way you get frost badges now, from top tier raids and I'm guessing once a day from random heroic |
| 07:47.04 | Amarande | Everything else gives suck points, including converted Frost and Triumph badges. |
| 07:47.28 | harl | why the suck? |
| 07:47.40 | Amarande | harl: to distinguish them from the top tier points. |
| 07:47.49 | harl | duh. |
| 07:47.50 | Amarande | plus the fact that, at least initially, the stuff you get with those points isn't even epics IIRC. |
| 07:48.06 | Amarande | that will change, eventually, though. |
| 07:48.20 | Amarande | instead of continually introducing new types of badges like they did in LK, the game plan for Cata appears to be simpler |
| 07:48.38 | Amarande | each time a new tier comes out, all of your good points get turned into suck points - and so do the costs of things that used to cost the good points |
| 07:49.18 | Amarande | so yeah it's pretty much going to end up being like LK, except we won't have so many different types of badges to manage, and there won't be two-tiers-old badges that just suck |
| 07:49.34 | Amarande | plus no more having to talk to three or four different vendors to buy things like heirlooms that need the lowest tier of badge :P |
| 07:50.06 | Amarande | really the only notable thing about this conversion is that you should hoard your Triumph badges, but spend your Frosts |
| 07:50.26 | Amarande | because you get the SAME number of points for either, but of course things that used to cost Frost will cost more |
| 07:51.35 | harl | got that. |
| 07:52.09 | Amarande | so basically it's all a good thing. |
| 07:52.15 | Amarande | I'm just wondering how it's going to apply to 70 heroic stuff. |
| 07:52.24 | harl | will have some breakfast furst though.. and *then* (maybe!) think about suck and good. |
| 07:52.26 | Amarande | particularly as there is still time for me to freeze my priest at 70, which I may still want to do. |
| 07:53.02 | Amarande | she's a Tailor/Enchanter, and as a squishy priest, being able to get all the BC drop recipes while she still can queue for them is probably the best idea |
| 07:53.14 | Amarande | especially the enchants |
| 07:54.43 | harl | she could as well just go solo dungeon there at 85 |
| 07:54.44 | zenzio | "In a move that almost certainly had nothing to do with the impending MMO doom that is Cataclysm, Sony Online Entertainment has just announced that its DC Universe Online superhero MMORPG has been delayed until 2011." -- this was my first thought too |
| 07:55.29 | harl | of course not ;) |
| 07:56.01 | Amarande | harl: are you quite sure of that :) |
| 07:56.15 | Amarande | I know if she was 80 she'd still have a lot of trouble with some of them, and it's often final bosses that drop enchants |
| 07:56.18 | Amarande | MgT comes to mind, especially |
| 07:56.29 | Amarande | Hell, I had trouble with Kael'thas on my ICC geared frost DK, let alone on a squishy |
| 07:56.59 | Amarande | I was about to think I needed to go back and get my tank gear before I finally managed it |
| 07:57.11 | nebula | deathstrike harder |
| 07:57.21 | *** join/#wowuidev robokitty (~roboe@50A2E6C0.flatrate.dk) |
| 07:57.21 | Amarande | nebula: yeah that was what finally did it |
| 07:57.35 | Amarande | I had to completely remove Oblit from my rotation and use exclusively DS instead in that position |
| 07:57.56 | Amarande | I have a feeling it would have been cake in my tank gear though :S |
| 07:58.15 | nebula | you can solo wrath dungeons as blood |
| 07:59.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (caleb@client-129-232.wifi.elte.hu) |
| 07:59.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Sliker (~ponies@5e0b4477.bb.sky.com) |
| 08:00.21 | Amarande | I think I was also not concentrating as hard as I should have though because I was somewhat pissed off that night until later |
| 08:01.04 | Amarande | That was the night my ride home from work insisted on stopping at McD's and I missed that week's LK attempts because there was a mega line and I ended up being late for raid ... after *telling* my ride I needed to be home by 8 :P |
| 08:02.54 | Amarande | but that night turned out really good anyway |
| 08:03.20 | Amarande | we ended up doing a lot of LK heroics later that night and I got a huge pile of achievements |
| 08:03.22 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 08:03.36 | Amarande | plus the fact that that MgT run completed outland dungeonmaster |
| 08:03.47 | *** join/#wowuidev ftwordrin (~ftwordrin@user-10lfd6q.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 08:05.16 | ftwordrin | Hello all! |
| 08:05.41 | *** join/#wowuidev rikai (~rikai@cpe-184-153-144-194.maine.res.rr.com) |
| 08:05.41 | *** join/#wowuidev rikai (~rikai@unaffiliated/rikai) |
| 08:05.53 | zenzio | ohai |
| 08:06.53 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 08:07.54 | ftwordrin | I think I'm misunderstanding the LUA environment. |
| 08:08.02 | ftwordrin | http://pastebin.com/SZgfDSsT |
| 08:08.25 | ftwordrin | Getting a lot of global nil value errors |
| 08:08.37 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy|lap (~stolenleg@193.170.222.163) |
| 08:09.30 | zenzio | could you be a little more specific about where/what? |
| 08:09.33 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI|home (~chatzilla@ip68-4-70-227.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 08:10.25 | ftwordrin | whenver I try /dt boss or /dt reset or basically any of my commands that access a function |
| 08:10.27 | ftwordrin | it either says |
| 08:10.38 | ftwordrin | attempt to call global print which is a nil value |
| 08:10.49 | ftwordrin | or tried to call upvalue? |
| 08:10.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (~kalroth@mail1.retailplanit.com) |
| 08:10.53 | Amarande | hmm ... I need to find out what SV is going to be like in 4.0 |
| 08:10.57 | ftwordrin | I don't quite understand the error messages |
| 08:10.57 | Amarande | since that's what I'm thinking to spec the hunter |
| 08:11.08 | batrick | Shirik: i've begun a new project |
| 08:11.14 | ftwordrin | I'll have to restart wow again I think a lot of my errors are cached. |
| 08:11.21 | Amarande | my last hunter that I never finished, I leveled MM |
| 08:11.26 | Amarande | so this time I think I'll try SV :) |
| 08:11.33 | Amarande | I refuse to level BM on principle, heh |
| 08:11.59 | amro | odd principle |
| 08:12.39 | Jamash | BM is rad |
| 08:12.57 | Jamash | anyone know if glyph mastery books teach new things on ptr, if you already know them all on live? |
| 08:13.11 | Jamash | 'cause I know doing glyph research on ptr gave me something new |
| 08:13.28 | Amarande | amro: I think it's just a "everyone levels BM, so I'd rather try something different" thing |
| 08:13.56 | Amarande | BM also feels kind of easysauce and I like to actually have to think in games |
| 08:14.19 | Amarande | come to think of it, that's probably a reason why I don't care much for the new gaming trend towards fast mindless action in so many genres |
| 08:14.59 | Amarande | why do people hate to use their brains in entertainment anymore? :( |
| 08:15.27 | ftwordrin | does diablo 3 count as fast mindless action? |
| 08:15.45 | Jamash | BM PvP is pretty compelling I find |
| 08:15.59 | zenzio | ftwordrin: if it's saying that print is a nil value, does it give that error when your addon first loads too? |
| 08:16.17 | Amarande | ftwordrin: Diablo 3 isn't out yet, so I don't know :) |
| 08:16.22 | Amarande | and Diablo 2 was certainly not mindless |
| 08:16.41 | Amarande | at least, assuming you used real gear and not hacked highrune crap like so many kiddies used :P |
| 08:16.41 | amro | Amarande: it's not mindless action at all |
| 08:16.42 | Jamash | I was just doing arenas today as BM |
| 08:16.49 | amro | fast decision making is still decision making |
| 08:16.54 | amro | there was an article on this recently |
| 08:17.02 | ftwordrin | ^ |
| 08:17.08 | amro | FPS players tend to make better AND faster decisions |
| 08:17.15 | ftwordrin | orly? |
| 08:17.25 | amro | the good ones |
| 08:17.26 | ftwordrin | compared to starcraft players? |
| 08:17.27 | ftwordrin | lol |
| 08:17.28 | Jamash | I was constantly deciding whether to apply dps, debuffs, stuns, defensive moves, mana drains, etc |
| 08:17.29 | amro | not every fps player? |
| 08:17.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaelten (~Kaelten@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/WoWIFA/CurseStaff/kaelten) |
| 08:17.34 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Kaelten] by ChanServ |
| 08:18.00 | ftwordrin | i think the best starcraft player in the world could kick the best CS player's ass in decision making any day |
| 08:18.15 | amro | CS doesn't really involve that much decision making |
| 08:18.22 | Jamash | depends on the decision |
| 08:18.25 | amro | and as far as sc goes, most decisons are automatic |
| 08:18.29 | Amarande | yeah, there aren't any decisions in CS at all practically these days |
| 08:18.33 | Amarande | not even map choices anymore |
| 08:18.35 | unfo- | SC players are excellent SC players, they are not by default great decision makers in general |
| 08:18.40 | Jamash | ^ |
| 08:18.42 | Amarande | your decision on maps lately seems to be "do we play de_dust2 or de_dust2" :( |
| 08:18.54 | Jamash | people still play counterstrike? |
| 08:18.54 | Amarande | god I am so tired of de_dust2 |
| 08:18.57 | ftwordrin | so what makes an fps a great decision maker instead of just good at their game too? |
| 08:18.58 | zenzio | unfo-: nonsense, WW2 as totally a zerg rush |
| 08:18.58 | Amarande | and I don't even play cs that much |
| 08:19.25 | zenzio | *was |
| 08:19.29 | amro | unfo-: assuming they have similar background information on a given subject, they can make decisions pretty well |
| 08:19.31 | unfo- | zenzio, lol. ;) |
| 08:19.34 | Amarande | not to mention what seems an almost total lack of custom maps in CS |
| 08:19.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Sliker (ponies@5e07b5fa.bb.sky.com) |
| 08:19.44 | Amarande | one thing I loved about UT was the large variety of custom maps |
| 08:19.46 | amro | you have to learn to quickly analyze the situation |
| 08:19.51 | Jamash | ut was pretty cool |
| 08:19.58 | Amarande | then CS became the big thing, and everyone just plays the default maps (and even of those, they mostly just play damned de_dust2) |
| 08:19.59 | amro | custom maps were meh in UT |
| 08:20.04 | amro | given the totally badass builtin map rotation |
| 08:20.20 | Amarande | I still sometimes wonder how CS became the big tournament game, rather than UT team deathmatch |
| 08:20.28 | amro | team deathmatch is bad |
| 08:20.33 | Amarande | You'd think a tournament would be better based on a game with equal objectives on both sides, though |
| 08:20.34 | amro | CTF and Assault, maybe |
| 08:20.41 | ftwordrin | ^ why fps players are bad decision makers... side tracked instantly to talk about fps :p |
| 08:20.44 | Jamash | I am so goddamn sick of CTF |
| 08:20.44 | amro | but deathmatch/team deathmatch are not properly competitive |
| 08:20.45 | Amarande | which pretty much all the UT modes are |
| 08:20.53 | Jamash | imo ctf should be banned from all games forever |
| 08:21.00 | ftwordrin | warsong gulch |
| 08:21.03 | ftwordrin | rofl |
| 08:21.05 | Amarande | Jamash: it's really too basic a paradigm to do that to :) |
| 08:21.08 | unfo- | wsg... *cries* |
| 08:21.10 | Jamash | warsong gulch should be banned forever, yes |
| 08:21.18 | zenzio | CTF isn't bad, it could just do with some revamped rules |
| 08:21.18 | amro | wow is not a valid metric for game modes |
| 08:21.25 | amro | CTF in UT was perfect |
| 08:21.29 | Jamash | but ctf is bad in *every* game |
| 08:21.30 | amro | just perfect |
| 08:21.34 | unfo- | CTF in CoDMW2 is nice |
| 08:21.52 | Amarande | the other thing that sucks about CS is when I get stuck having to play on the terrorist team |
| 08:21.53 | amro | don't you dare bash UT's CTF Jamash without backing it up |
| 08:21.56 | Amarande | I HATE playing on the terrorist team |
| 08:21.58 | Jamash | 2flag ctf, anyway |
| 08:22.07 | amro | what else would you play? |
| 08:22.14 | Jamash | where you can just grab each other's flags and then camp forever |
| 08:22.19 | amro | anything more and it becomes as stupid as deathmatch |
| 08:22.21 | Amarande | this would probably have *something* to do with the fact that my favorite weapon in CS is the CT-exclusive sniper :P |
| 08:22.27 | amro | you can't camp forever in UT... |
| 08:22.30 | Jamash | one-flag ctf is awesome |
| 08:22.47 | Amarande | Jamash: EOTS = <3 |
| 08:23.00 | Amarande | I REALLY don't know why that one lost its popularity so quickly |
| 08:23.05 | Amarande | it was always easily my favorite BG |
| 08:23.14 | Jamash | I had 100 EOTS marks when it came time to convert them to honor |
| 08:23.48 | Amarande | hrm ... do I go buy the rest of the Dragon Age DLC now? :) |
| 08:24.12 | Jamash | I like attack-defend, I like one-flag, I like king of the hill, I like Arathi Basin (whatever you'd call that), I like Bombing Run, I just hate 2-flag CTF |
| 08:24.26 | Jamash | it's the worst game type that exists |
| 08:24.29 | amro | doesn't sound like you played UT CTF |
| 08:24.32 | Jamash | nope |
| 08:24.36 | amro | then stop talking |
| 08:24.40 | Jamash | nou |
| 08:24.48 | Jamash | how is UT CTF different from WSG |
| 08:24.52 | amro | wow |
| 08:24.57 | amro | how can you even ask that question |
| 08:24.59 | amro | go now and get UT |
| 08:25.03 | amro | it's like $5 on GOG.com |
| 08:25.08 | Jamash | I put my fingers on the keys and type |
| 08:25.13 | amro | there's a MASSIVE difference |
| 08:25.20 | Jamash | I played the xbox UT |
| 08:25.23 | amro | for one, you don't need a giant blob around the flag carrier |
| 08:25.38 | amro | and you don't need a giant blob to kill the flag carrier |
| 08:25.39 | Jamash | but that was mostly deathmatch I think |
| 08:25.46 | amro | and there are no dumbass slows or speed boosts |
| 08:26.08 | zenzio | loads the Redeemer |
| 08:26.12 | amro | and most importantly you rarely die to people who suck |
| 08:26.23 | Amarande | ahh, I miss the redeemer |
| 08:26.38 | Amarande | although really, I'm more a fan of sniper guns in most FPS lately |
| 08:26.42 | amro | also you can see across the entire map |
| 08:26.52 | Amarande | btw, am I the *only* CS player anymore whose favorite weapon is the 550? |
| 08:26.59 | amro | and UT has the best sniper rifle ever |
| 08:27.09 | zenzio | Amarande: favourite weapon *in CS*? |
| 08:27.15 | Jamash | now, I played the hell out of Quake 2 CTF at the time |
| 08:27.53 | amro | just go play UT CTF |
| 08:28.01 | Amarande | zenzio: yeah. |
| 08:28.03 | Jamash | I don't have UT |
| 08:28.11 | Amarande | the 550 being that sniper gun that only CTs can buy |
| 08:28.12 | amro | then stop bashing CTF |
| 08:28.35 | Amarande | and that I got my ass called a noob once for doing what seemed the right strategy and holding onto |
| 08:28.37 | Amarande | get this: |
| 08:28.42 | Amarande | I had maybe 20 health left. |
| 08:28.48 | amro | this is like bashing platformers without having played SMB |
| 08:28.50 | zenzio | Amarande: which CS is this in, CS:S? Last time I played was 1.6 I think... and I stuck to the M4 usually |
| 08:28.55 | Amarande | CS:S yeah |
| 08:29.08 | Jamash | my steam username is Mooninaut, gift it to me and I'll play it |
| 08:29.09 | Amarande | it was a hostage map, IIRC, and the Ts had killed the hostage so we CTs had to wipe them if we were to win |
| 08:29.18 | Amarande | there was AT LEAST one remaining T, in an UNKNOWN location. I had about 20 health left. |
| 08:29.19 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 08:29.35 | amro | it's cheaper on GOG |
| 08:29.41 | Amarande | They called me a noob for deciding to take a loss by not seeking out that T and instead hold onto my weapon for next round |
| 08:29.44 | amro | and I'm not feeling charitable today |
| 08:29.57 | Amarande | Really. If I'd gone looking for them, I'd have been one-shot at that low health when I DID find them, and then I'd have given them a free 550. |
| 08:30.08 | Amarande | I'm a noob for NOT giving away my weapon to the other team for free? :| |
| 08:30.13 | amro | Amarande: drop the 550, go in with a pistol |
| 08:30.15 | Amarande | In a situation where our win chance was basically nil anyway? |
| 08:30.19 | amro | it's a shitty weapon to begin with |
| 08:30.33 | Jamash | btw anyone want a free copy of Half-Life 2 or Half-Life 2 Episode 1? |
| 08:34.56 | Amarande | you know, it's almost sad btw when you can just march in and zerg Mograine without even having to concern yourself with clearing the Cathedral first |
| 08:35.19 | Jamash | well, you are more than twice his level |
| 08:35.21 | Amarande | I think I still had about 77% health left even fighting the whole chapel at once |
| 08:35.34 | Amarande | also, it's been a while, but |
| 08:35.44 | Amarande | if you don't close the chapel door before engaging Mograine, do adds come from outside it as well? |
| 08:35.48 | Amarande | or do only the chapel mobs ever add? |
| 08:36.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (caleb@client-129-232.wifi.elte.hu) |
| 08:37.32 | Amarande | been so long since I engaged Mograine *without* closing the chapel door, I always do so pretty much as a matter of course, just in case, since I don't remember whether that happens |
| 08:38.18 | Amarande | oh, I also acquired a pretty dubious honor along with my Kingslayer title tonight |
| 08:39.05 | Amarande | apparently I became the first member of my guild to die three times in a single LK attempt. heh |
| 08:41.12 | Amarande | of which only perhaps ONE of those deaths did I really ever have possibly the slightest chance of preventing |
| 08:42.22 | Amarande | (we have a particularly druid-heavy raid, as you might have guessed) |
| 08:42.48 | unfo- | Amarande, closing the chapel door? |
| 08:42.51 | *** join/#wowuidev cairenn (~Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 08:42.51 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 08:42.52 | unfo- | Amarande, i've never done that... |
| 08:42.56 | Amarande | wb Cairenn :) |
| 08:43.32 | Amarande | Death 1: Got hit with the Necrotic Plague, pretty much just as the final ghoul went down during a phase transition so I got gibbed to the tune of about 98k damage |
| 08:44.29 | Amarande | Death 2: Got hit with Infest right after being B-rezzed, didn't have enough HP to live through it to get healed and went down like a sack of bricks (this might have been preventable with better timing accepting the rez, but with how little you get rezzed with I have a feeling Pain and Suffering would probably have gotten me instead then, since we were STILL in the phase transition) |
| 08:44.53 | Amarande | Death 3: after being B-rezzed again, was lucky enough to have a date with a glowy winged woman and not have it ended soon enough by my buddies. :) |
| 08:44.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Monolit (~postid08@89.112.42.203.pppoe.eltel.net) |
| 08:46.30 | Amarande | although being valked isn't the strangest death I've had in ICC |
| 08:46.42 | Amarande | as I said earlier, if you get wonked by one of the ice orbs during a phase transition on LK |
| 08:46.50 | Amarande | you will literally NEVER stop falling until you release |
| 08:47.22 | Amarande | I didn't release for a bit because I wanted to see if I was going to stop, but I never did |
| 08:48.21 | Amarande | It kind of reminds me of a less black and empty version of http://www.projectaon.org/en/xhtml/gs/03btng/sect269.htm :) |
| 08:53.56 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o eir] by ChanServ |
| 08:53.57 | *** mode/#wowuidev [-bo *!*@68.64.47.56 eir] by eir |
| 08:56.03 | Amarande | you know, I really do wish I could get an ICC25 group that does heroic BQL, though :) |
| 08:56.34 | *** join/#wowuidev cairenn1 (~Cairenn@CPE00235435c2a1-CM0012c9213c9c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 08:57.22 | Fisker | eir totally abused his power |
| 08:58.12 | unfo- | i would prefer 25mans since they are generally easier (much more forgiving) |
| 08:58.15 | Amarande | Fisker: meh. no single unban could ever make this place worse than, say, trade chat :) |
| 08:58.20 | Amarande | unfo: ehh, it's not that |
| 08:58.25 | Amarande | it's more that I'm after a specific piece of loot |
| 08:58.56 | unfo- | Amarande, i wasn't commenting on that.. I was just commenting in general |
| 08:59.05 | Amarande | I mean it's not like I get THAT much new even if I finish ICC25 now, other than the privilege to activate heroic on 25 as well as the 10 I can now |
| 08:59.09 | unfo- | i dislike how 10 mans is so individual dependent |
| 08:59.18 | Amarande | if you kill LK25, you get ... Kingslayer! |
| 08:59.23 | Amarande | yay, a title I already have! |
| 08:59.43 | Amarande | I'm after this, actually. http://www.wowhead.com/item=50728 |
| 08:59.53 | Amarande | especially now that I'm down to 19 expertise so I can actually use expertise rating again |
| 09:02.33 | *** join/#wowuidev the-golem (~Darrin@c-98-255-201-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 09:03.14 | Amarande | and wtf, wowhead |
| 09:03.30 | Amarande | when I click on heroic on BQL's abilities all I get is "exact abilities unknown at this time" :( |
| 09:06.08 | Humbe^off | wru Light of Dawn title, Amarande! |
| 09:06.10 | Humbe^off | go go go! |
| 09:06.31 | Amarande | Humbe, somehow I don't think I'm getting that till 85 :( |
| 09:06.48 | Amarande | Not enough time, basically. Especially since my raid guild is really only set for 10's |
| 09:06.52 | Humbedooh | them heroic 25 man icc bosses are fun though ^^^ |
| 09:10.35 | Jamash | soloing chillmaw is tricky |
| 09:10.50 | Humbedooh | go for the adds first |
| 09:10.59 | Humbedooh | they be smelly and evil |
| 09:11.49 | Amarande | we will be starting work on heroic 10 this week |
| 09:13.56 | Amarande | and apparently my next heroic upgrade target should be the helm from LDW |
| 09:15.11 | Amarande | and the bracers from Valithria |
| 09:15.58 | Amarande | and the pants from either Sindy or Blood Princes |
| 09:16.16 | Amarande | probably Blood Princes, because at this point I do need to hold onto Expertise and I'm NOT sure how long before my RL will feel happy about trying Sindy on heroic ;) |
| 09:18.40 | Jamash | your pathetic magic betrays you (confirm/deny) |
| 09:18.56 | Amarande | Jamash: actually what I'd be worried about on heroic Sindy is the enrage timer |
| 09:19.07 | Amarande | we usually get her down on reg in 9-9:30, and 10 minutes is the timer |
| 09:19.14 | Jamash | huh |
| 09:24.23 | Jamash | BOOSH did it |
| 09:24.46 | Jamash | soloing an elite as a blood dk tank is a lot different from doing it as a bm hunter |
| 09:26.47 | Amarande | Jamash: or probably even as Frost DPS |
| 09:26.58 | Amarande | which has been my favorite spec ever since I began my DK |
| 09:27.06 | Jamash | indubitably |
| 09:27.14 | Amarande | I actually had my (now deleted) BS make two Dawn's Edges so I could get a head start on DWing as soon as I hit the mailbox |
| 09:27.16 | Jamash | I like frost but then they made it all dual wieldy |
| 09:27.28 | Amarande | amazing that those old BS quest recipes do come in handy? :) |
| 09:27.32 | Jamash | why deleted? |
| 09:27.41 | Amarande | I deleted at one point all my characters who were below 70 |
| 09:27.46 | Amarande | except the bank alt |
| 09:27.56 | Amarande | 'course, I ended up starting a new hunter anyway |
| 09:28.06 | Amarande | but she's a blood elf and the old one was an orc |
| 09:28.10 | Jamash | huh |
| 09:28.20 | Amarande | I like blood elves? :) |
| 09:28.35 | Amarande | also it seems like the belf racial might actually get to shine in cata |
| 09:28.54 | Amarande | because it looks like utility stuff like silence/interrupt will actually be more important than extra raw pewpew like orcs have |
| 09:33.15 | airtonix | silences Amarande |
| 09:49.48 | harl | cheers |
| 10:11.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@BC24BCF2.dsl.pool.telekom.hu) |
| 10:12.12 | Fisker | jnwhiteh |
| 10:12.18 | Fisker | i need to buy some fucking apps |
| 10:13.30 | mitch0 | got you iPhone at last? |
| 10:13.35 | mitch0 | s/you/your/ |
| 10:13.43 | mitch0 | purl: shutup |
| 10:13.43 | purl | yes master, I'll STFU |
| 10:13.54 | mitch0 | no you won't :( |
| 10:15.00 | Fisker | no mitch0 |
| 10:15.07 | Fisker | but the market just launched paid apps in dkdkddkdk |
| 10:26.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Guardix-lagtop (~Martin@edu-clients.nat.esnord.dk) |
| 10:31.19 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 10:32.20 | Jamash | man mal'ganis is a bitch |
| 10:32.31 | Jamash | just won't die |
| 10:35.54 | Fisker | lol |
| 10:35.56 | Fisker | that's fucking lame |
| 10:36.03 | Fisker | if you get a spectral tiger you basically got 2 |
| 10:36.12 | Fisker | since the slow one will move at 100% speed in cataclysm |
| 10:43.19 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-76-116-64-179.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 10:44.24 | *** join/#wowuidev stew-a (~Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 10:45.27 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 10:54.58 | industrial | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6shj5YF25w&feature=player_embedded\ |
| 10:55.03 | industrial | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6shj5YF25w |
| 10:55.08 | industrial | :') |
| 10:59.22 | *** join/#wowuidev RJohn (~Tanner@h123.65.149.24.cable.rdwd.jetbroadband.com) |
| 11:04.25 | industrial | nevcairiel: weren't you making a Lua IDE for IntelliJ IDEA? |
| 11:04.38 | industrial | Did you make a post about the lua code formatter? |
| 11:06.16 | industrial | err on the mailing list :p |
| 11:06.51 | amro | don't you mean sylvanaar? |
| 11:08.35 | krka_ | he most likely did |
| 11:23.28 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 11:24.06 | industrial | I still confuse nevcairiel and sylvanaar. I've been doing that for years and I don't know why :| |
| 11:26.31 | *** join/#wowuidev _Parnic (user@staff.xbins.org) |
| 11:29.28 | jnwhiteh | Fisker: okay |
| 11:30.12 | unfo- | industrial, :DDDD |
| 11:30.19 | Jerub | alliance warrior. what race? |
| 11:30.34 | industrial | unfo-: :V? |
| 11:30.49 | unfo- | industrial, i finally watched that youtube clip you posed :D |
| 11:30.51 | unfo- | posted* |
| 11:31.55 | industrial | ow heh |
| 11:37.54 | TMc51 | @Jerub, go Gnome, or go home. =) |
| 11:38.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Avis_ (~Avis@24-181-71-177.dhcp.nwnn.ga.charter.com) |
| 11:38.59 | industrial | TMc51: tiling window managers will change the world :P |
| 11:39.06 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 11:40.17 | industrial | (I also consider window managers used on mobile devices such as the one on the Nokia n900 to be somewhat like the tiling window managers in that you don't have to use window handles on the windows themselves to manage several windows in one workspace. You can easily switch between them using motions or keyboard keys) |
| 11:40.50 | TMc51 | sounds sorta like my old Gentoo setup used to be. :P |
| 11:41.15 | industrial | check out dwm (with C), awesome (with lua) or xmonad (with haskell) |
| 11:45.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@82.111.127.91) |
| 11:45.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 11:48.23 | Jamash | aren't tiling window managers basically going back to MS windows 1.0? |
| 11:55.39 | *** join/#wowuidev boshi_dev (~chris@c-68-36-37-83.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 12:00.06 | Jamash | aaaaaaaaaaaand servers down |
| 12:00.22 | industrial | Jamash: That depends on if you think all the additions to the interface (which really aren't that many) of windows through the years were all ground breaking UI changes that have us use computers differently and more efficient than ever before. |
| 12:00.26 | industrial | or not. |
| 12:00.44 | Jamash | in windows 7 I can winkey-tab IN THREE DEE |
| 12:00.53 | Jamash | IF THAT'S NOT PROGRESS THEN WHAT IS I ASK YOU |
| 12:01.09 | industrial | I think not. It's just all point and click, they change 'UI' things (which I believe to be just app UI not OS/window manger UI changes) like 'places' in the left bar in explorer |
| 12:01.16 | unfo- | Jamash, Vista feature |
| 12:01.28 | industrial | wow so it now uses compositing. grats. linux and osx can do that too. |
| 12:01.36 | Jamash | I don't acknowledge there being a MS desktop OS between XP and 7 |
| 12:01.40 | industrial | you're still clicking and m,anaging your windows |
| 12:01.46 | industrial | also on one workspace. |
| 12:01.56 | unfo- | Jamash, i c what you did there ;) |
| 12:02.23 | industrial | I basically maximize everything on windows and use alt-tab. |
| 12:02.42 | industrial | I dont really see the use of manually draggind and clicking through several windows all with one hand (on the mouse) |
| 12:03.14 | Jamash | I have a 1920x1080 display so I find maximizing a lot of apps to be overkill |
| 12:03.18 | industrial | on linux with Compiz I can show all workspace windows aligned and sized next to eachother (expo) and then start typing the name of the window and filter the list/ones seen on screen |
| 12:03.22 | Jamash | like, say, my text editor |
| 12:04.04 | industrial | or press win+3 to go to that workspace, or ass shift to zap the current window to that workspace |
| 12:04.17 | industrial | where, ofcourse, using a tiled window manager, I'll see all windows' contents at all times |
| 12:04.37 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 12:04.40 | Jamash | ass shift? |
| 12:04.41 | industrial | and I can give one window several tags, since workspaces really are just tagged names, and then I can see that window specifically on those tags |
| 12:04.46 | industrial | for example my IRC client window |
| 12:04.47 | industrial | add* |
| 12:05.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Monolit (~postid08@89.112.42.203.pppoe.eltel.net) |
| 12:05.35 | industrial | I can use different algorithms for placing the windows on the screen aqnd deciding which is the biggest (master) and where everything goes |
| 12:05.54 | industrial | oh, I can also change the config and reload it without restarting (which would take a whole of 2 seconds anyway) |
| 12:06.04 | Jamash | if I was designing a desktop os from the ground up it would bear very little resemblance to any currently popular OS |
| 12:06.17 | foxlit | "We will be introducing a new, hard cap of 600 members in a single guild for Cataclysm. This function will go live with patch 4.0.1 and is already live on the beta and PTR's. " |
| 12:06.43 | Kalroth | I guess that it was a huge issue to fix the UI |
| 12:06.45 | Jamash | however I don't feel it worth my time to beat windows or linux into submission just to make it look nicer |
| 12:06.58 | foxlit | Kalroth: the UI limit was 500 |
| 12:07.00 | Jamash | I thought there was already a 500 member cap |
| 12:07.15 | industrial | I wont spend much time on looks, but how it works, usability etc definately. |
| 12:07.27 | Kalroth | foxlit: well yeah, i cant think of any other reason to limit it to 600 |
| 12:07.31 | foxlit | the guild ui softcaps at 500, but you can break that. |
| 12:07.41 | foxlit | now they'll hard-cap it to 600 server-side |
| 12:07.50 | industrial | Jamash: most tiling window managers draw a 1px border around every client, so that you can use more screen space for the actual window |
| 12:07.52 | Kalroth | there was never a cap before that, im pretty sure one of the goon guilds nearly had 1k |
| 12:07.54 | A-KO | they're soft capping at 600 now, foxlit |
| 12:08.01 | A-KO | the soft cap has always been 500 |
| 12:08.03 | A-KO | since way back in the day |
| 12:08.06 | Kalroth | "a new, hard cap of 600 members" |
| 12:08.06 | A-KO | there was no hard cap |
| 12:08.12 | A-KO | you'd just see only 500 people in the guild |
| 12:08.17 | A-KO | Now both the hard and soft will be 600 |
| 12:08.18 | Kalroth | yes, it was unlimited before |
| 12:08.32 | A-KO | You'll see 600 people in the guild, and you'll only be able to invite up to 600 |
| 12:08.34 | Jamash | they should really do guild alliances |
| 12:08.42 | foxlit | A-KO: that is, I believe, what I said. |
| 12:08.45 | A-KO | I agree Jamash |
| 12:08.51 | A-KO | foxlit: ah, I dunno, saw people debating it :P |
| 12:08.51 | Kalroth | like I said, it was easier capping members than fixing the UI |
| 12:08.54 | A-KO | it's not really something to debate |
| 12:09.02 | Jamash | it's partly UI and partly infrastructure |
| 12:09.04 | foxlit | The "why" is interesting |
| 12:09.13 | foxlit | "With the advent of the new guild system in Cataclysm we are tracking many more things on each individual player in a guild and in order to support that, we need to limit the amount of members to a reasonable level. " is kind of meh |
| 12:09.15 | Jamash | a guild is a constantly updating /who query |
| 12:09.17 | A-KO | The "why" is because of the amount of data they're pulling now for the new guild shit. |
| 12:09.22 | Jamash | ^ |
| 12:09.27 | A-KO | it's pretty damn simple |
| 12:09.34 | A-KO | No, that's not "meh" |
| 12:09.36 | A-KO | that's the truth? |
| 12:09.39 | Kalroth | sure, so you cache the /who query and only update when needed |
| 12:09.46 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 12:09.51 | Jamash | now if they felt like it they could do a much better job of managing guild info |
| 12:09.51 | foxlit | The truth is meh, A-KO. |
| 12:09.53 | A-KO | Why would they bother lying or making up something about that? |
| 12:10.05 | Kalroth | i mean, there are systems out there that support more concurrent users than 600 |
| 12:10.07 | Kalroth | (hi IRC!) |
| 12:10.13 | Jamash | but the wow client-server data management infrastructure sucks, so... |
| 12:10.14 | foxlit | Because "we can't be arsed" doesn't sound good. |
| 12:10.34 | unfo- | Kalroth, i don't think it's a matter of concurrency but rather data storage and complexity of keeping guild state |
| 12:10.36 | A-KO | I don't think it has anything to do with they can't be bothered with it, besides, how many guilds realistically have 600 members? |
| 12:10.41 | *** join/#wowuidev BigRedBrent (~Brent@pool-72-86-75-100.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 12:10.49 | *** part/#wowuidev BigRedBrent (~Brent@pool-72-86-75-100.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 12:10.52 | A-KO | Not very many groups have that many |
| 12:11.00 | Kalroth | A-KO: Right, why worry about it then? Why set a hard cap if there's so few guilds :) |
| 12:11.02 | A-KO | In fact the only time I've ever seen it happen is during betas |
| 12:11.08 | foxlit | That's self-contradicting, A-KO |
| 12:11.11 | A-KO | Kalroth: Because you know some jackass somewhere will try to break it |
| 12:11.16 | Kalroth | so? |
| 12:11.19 | foxlit | "how many people run into this" ==> "Not many, we can't be bothered" |
| 12:11.26 | Kalroth | if you coded the UI properly then it wouldn't matter |
| 12:11.38 | A-KO | foxlit: 600 is a rather generous guild cap. It's not worth debating IMO. Call me if they set the cap to 100 members. |
| 12:11.42 | A-KO | Then we'll have something to debate. |
| 12:11.43 | Kalroth | you'll never see many guilds hit 500+, so it's not a question about infrastructure either |
| 12:11.52 | foxlit | I mean, it's not like there's some magical unicorn that appears and stomps your server if you make the cap 601 |
| 12:11.55 | A-KO | Kalroth: the new UI can see all 600 people. It's never been a matter of the UI |
| 12:11.57 | Jamash | I'm sure there are a lot of things they'd do differently if they went back to scratch on the wow protocol and ui |
| 12:12.22 | Jamash | but look at how bad the auction house is managed from a technical perspective |
| 12:12.23 | Kalroth | it sure has, they're too lazy to fix the UI, so they up the UI limit to 600 (from 500) and hard cap the server limit |
| 12:12.51 | Jamash | fixing the UI would be easy |
| 12:12.56 | Jamash | fixing the protocol, notsomuch |
| 12:13.05 | A-KO | I don't think it has anything to do with the UI to be honest with you. It's just the amount of data they're collecting regarding what you do as a guild. It's a lot of stuff to store for each group....the gold you collect, the reputation you have, so forth and so forth. |
| 12:13.11 | Kalroth | (lazy or Bobby is breathing down their neck :) |
| 12:13.18 | A-KO | sigh |
| 12:13.20 | A-KO | always a damn conspiracy theory |
| 12:13.22 | A-KO | always |
| 12:13.23 | Jamash | and not just the amount being collected, but the amount being replicated to every guil member |
| 12:13.26 | Kalroth | A-KO: Like you said yourself, not many guilds hit that 500 number |
| 12:13.27 | A-KO | it's never as simple as "This is a reasonable number" |
| 12:13.29 | A-KO | yeah Jamash |
| 12:13.30 | Kalroth | so it's not the amoutn of data |
| 12:13.32 | Jamash | s/guil/guild/ |
| 12:13.33 | Kalroth | amount* |
| 12:14.27 | Jamash | Look at it this way, if 10 people are online, there's 10 items of information being replicated to 10 people, 10x10 = 100 |
| 12:14.40 | krka | be careful with quadratic increase in data traffic :) |
| 12:14.43 | Kalroth | in terms of data structure and layout, it doesn't matter if they got two guilds of 400 or one guild of 800 - they're never going to see many guilds break either |
| 12:14.54 | Jamash | if there's 1000 people online, that's 1000 items of information being replicated to 1000 people, 1000x1000 = ONE MILLION |
| 12:14.56 | Kalroth | sure krka, IRC handles several thousands in one chat room |
| 12:14.57 | A-KO | I think 600 is a damn reasonable number |
| 12:15.04 | Kalroth | surely wow can do the same! |
| 12:15.08 | krka | IRC _only_ handles tha |
| 12:15.11 | Jamash | Kalroth: You don't have 1000 people talking at once in IRC |
| 12:15.12 | Kalroth | no |
| 12:15.14 | A-KO | Kalroth: IRC's traffic and WoW's traffic are far different from each other... |
| 12:15.20 | A-KO | per iRC server |
| 12:15.24 | Kalroth | sure, IRC is also a decade older |
| 12:15.32 | Kalroth | IRC isn't just chat messages |
| 12:15.32 | foxlit | Jamash: I'd wager people talk more often than WoW updates the guild list :) |
| 12:15.34 | Humbedooh | one of the reasons they started phasing content originally was to cut down on traffic :p |
| 12:15.37 | A-KO | yes it is |
| 12:15.39 | Jamash | Foxlit: wrong |
| 12:15.41 | Kalroth | there's all kinds of notifications |
| 12:15.57 | A-KO | the guild list gets updated every time someone logs on and off, regardless of whether or not you see it |
| 12:16.11 | foxlit | Jamash: right? :) |
| 12:16.16 | Jamash | one person talking in irc = one line of text sent to x people |
| 12:16.20 | Humbedooh | or when their location changes and so on |
| 12:16.25 | krka | even if wow could handle it, why would blizzard want to waste money on bandwidth and cpu time like that? |
| 12:16.28 | A-KO | yeah |
| 12:16.29 | foxlit | One person doing something in guild = one integer sent to x people |
| 12:16.30 | Jamash | guild updates in wow = x items of data sent to x people |
| 12:16.31 | A-KO | it's pointless krka |
| 12:16.51 | Jamash | O(X^2) > O(X) |
| 12:17.03 | mitch0 | unless X is < 1 :) |
| 12:17.11 | foxlit | > is silly. |
| 12:17.18 | Jamash | if you have fewer than one person in your guild you have other problems |
| 12:17.21 | Humbedooh | <= 1 ! |
| 12:17.45 | foxlit | But anyway, fix the damn thing. It doesn't have to be a quadratic increase in communication for "one person does something" |
| 12:18.26 | krka | they could p2p it :P |
| 12:18.29 | Jamash | like I said, it would involve re-engineering the client-server protocol in a way that it does not seem that they want to do |
| 12:18.37 | foxlit | The way I see it, the only piece of information that updates in that list with any regularity is location |
| 12:18.42 | Jamash | whereas putting a cap on it and calling it a day is ez |
| 12:18.52 | A-KO | a cap of 600 is not even worth talking about |
| 12:19.02 | Humbedooh | don't forget all the CRAP that gets sent through the guild addon channel! |
| 12:19.05 | foxlit | Throw "offline" in there as a reserved value, and your update fits in an int. |
| 12:19.08 | Jerub | A-KO: but but but but goonsquad |
| 12:19.12 | Jamash | oh lord, the addon channel, yes |
| 12:19.25 | foxlit | Humbedooh: I'm sure they're happier about all the CRAP that gets sent through global chat channels :) |
| 12:19.41 | Humbedooh | that's peanuts compared to the addon channels tbh |
| 12:19.50 | foxlit | wave at carbonite for me |
| 12:19.56 | Jamash | HI CARBONITE |
| 12:20.02 | zenzio | the addon channel is a RESULT of crap going through other channels |
| 12:20.02 | Humbedooh | libhealcomm fx ;p |
| 12:20.54 | Kalroth | i wonder if there is a hard cap on trade chat too |
| 12:21.15 | Jamash | well, there's going to be a cap on messages per minute per player in trade |
| 12:21.25 | A-KO | yeah |
| 12:21.26 | A-KO | there is |
| 12:21.29 | A-KO | it's already in beta |
| 12:21.29 | Jamash | we'll see if that renders trade less useless |
| 12:21.46 | A-KO | it's like 2 or 3 messages every 5 seconds or 10 seconds or something |
| 12:21.54 | A-KO | it's pretty substantial, it cuts down on chatter |
| 12:23.19 | Jamash | is it wrong to use my ghoul purely as a sacrifice as a blood tank? |
| 12:23.55 | foxlit | no |
| 12:23.59 | foxlit | It's not permanent anyway |
| 12:24.00 | Jamash | didn't think so |
| 12:24.25 | Jamash | I was soloing group quests in icecrown and I found it easiest to just hit raise dead and then immediately death pact |
| 12:24.44 | Kalroth | ERROR_NO_MORE_THAN_5_DUMS_IN_TRADE_CHAT |
| 12:25.00 | Jamash | orly |
| 12:25.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (~Lopeppepp@141.222.30.166) |
| 12:25.04 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 12:26.39 | Humbedooh | the current message cap on beta is horrible |
| 12:26.42 | zenzio | ohai Lopeppeppy |
| 12:26.47 | Jamash | lol Line 7445: SPELL_FAILED_CUSTOM_ERROR_2 = "Alex broke your quest! Thank him later!"; |
| 12:28.15 | Jamash | Humbedooh: I think it's ok, actually |
| 12:28.18 | Jamash | It only |
| 12:28.20 | Jamash | causes |
| 12:28.21 | Jamash | problems |
| 12:28.23 | Jamash | when I type |
| 12:28.25 | Jamash | like this |
| 12:28.50 | Jamash | and I'm fine with being forced to slow down and think a little before I hit Enter |
| 12:30.29 | mikma | lol |
| 12:30.31 | mikma | that |
| 12:30.40 | mikma | sucks donkeyballs |
| 12:35.46 | Humbedooh | maybe I just type too fast then :\ |
| 12:36.00 | Jamash | type fast but hit enter less often |
| 12:36.24 | industrial | mikma: you just made me imagine someone ectually sucking on a donkey's balls. at work. it cracked me up. I'm really bored. |
| 12:36.41 | industrial | actually* |
| 12:37.57 | TMc51 | good thing I work at home, and happen to be my own boss. =) |
| 12:39.09 | mikma | industrial: that's good :) |
| 12:39.42 | mikma | tmc51: i hate to see you firing yourself after you will catch yourself surfing porn at worktime |
| 12:39.53 | TMc51 | hahaha |
| 12:40.00 | Jamash | he can't fire himself, he's got too much dirt on the boss |
| 12:40.20 | TMc51 | if I worked at an office with awesome internet, I'd probably get fired for downloading music. |
| 12:40.45 | Jamash | I used to stay for hours after work watching video game trailers and stuff |
| 12:40.51 | Jamash | on the super super fat pipe |
| 12:41.34 | TMc51 | My dream would be to spend time at CERN using the fastest internet connection in the world. :) |
| 12:41.55 | industrial | heh ive done that |
| 12:42.01 | industrial | but on the amsterdam datacenter side :P |
| 12:42.19 | industrial | at http://www.nikhef.nl/id/ |
| 12:42.21 | Jamash | I want to work at the internet archive with a local backup |
| 12:42.26 | Jamash | of the entire internet |
| 12:42.36 | industrial | http://www.nikhef.nl/en/about-nikhef/ |
| 12:43.16 | industrial | TMc51: <insert brown-nosing joke> |
| 12:43.34 | industrial | TMc51: (in response to you working for yourself) |
| 12:43.39 | TMc51 | lol |
| 12:43.48 | Jamash | sounds anatomically unlikely |
| 12:44.25 | TMc51 | Honestly, I'd probably be better off working at a McDonalds or something when it comes to pay. Computer Repair doesn't bring in much cash in Syracuse =\ |
| 12:45.28 | industrial | I'm considering starting for myself as webdeveloper |
| 12:45.34 | TMc51 | Although, I do get tempted in going up to the Campass, and advertising my services, then also handing out disks full of virii, so stupid college kids come to me. That could be pretty lucritive. |
| 12:46.04 | Jamash | who needs to hand out disks? they've probably got them already |
| 12:46.18 | TMc51 | Especially given how a friend of mine used to sell baggies of cut grass up there, and everybody thought they were buying primo stuff. >.< |
| 12:46.24 | Jamash | heh |
| 12:49.08 | industrial | l m a o :P |
| 12:49.36 | industrial | Once someone tried to sell me some with hairspray on. I saw that shit in 1 second >_> |
| 12:50.16 | industrial | (It's supposed to make it more sticky and shiny, as if there were more thc crystals on it) |
| 12:50.58 | amro | TMc51: since when does downloading music take up a lot of bandwidth? |
| 12:51.19 | TMc51 | when you're downloading over 50 torrents at once. =P |
| 12:51.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Xevion (~Xevion@dslb-094-220-236-026.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:51.56 | TMc51 | errr |
| 12:52.05 | jnwhiteh | k |
| 12:52.05 | TMc51 | I plread the fifth? REDACT THAT ORIGINAL STATEMENT! |
| 12:52.11 | |Jelly| | Peppy! Save me from my phone! |
| 12:52.29 | Jamash | sets |Jelly|'s phone on fire. |
| 12:52.54 | |Jelly| | Whew! That was close! Been getting textx since midnight. :( |
| 12:53.16 | Xevion | Hello to all |
| 12:53.24 | |Jelly| | Hello |
| 12:54.47 | Kraps | "We will be introducing a new, hard cap of 600 members in a single guild for Cataclysm. This function will go live with patch 4.0.1 and is already live on the beta and PTR's." |
| 12:55.21 | Humbedooh | members or accounts? ;> |
| 12:55.27 | TMc51 | members |
| 12:55.45 | Kraps | We have pulled a large number of statistics to get to the 600 member cap for guilds and we are happy to say that this value covers more than 99.9% of all the active guilds in World of Warcraft. |
| 12:56.04 | Xevion | i'm new on AddOn dev (better to say: i have no plan^^) |
| 12:56.04 | Xevion | We working on a new Website for Pet's, Mounts and some others^^. But at the moment we try to find someone who will code a small AddOn that saves all knowing Pets to a File or so... Is this easy to make? (or will someone help^^?) |
| 12:56.34 | Humbedooh | all knowing pets? |
| 12:56.47 | TMc51 | What do you mean by all known pets? All that are known to exist? All that a particular player knows? |
| 12:56.58 | zenzio | I'm not sure exactly what you mean... wouldn't most of that be covered by the database sites and Petopia? |
| 12:57.01 | Xevion | that this char know |
| 12:57.01 | Humbedooh | and is it companions or combat pets? |
| 12:57.37 | Xevion | like Petopia, but we build it for all Pet-Types (Mounts, non Combat and Combat) |
| 12:57.37 | amro | TMc51: you can't plead the fifth if you voluntarily confess |
| 12:57.47 | Jamash | http://warcraftpets.com/ http://www.wow-petopia.com/ http://www.warcraftmounts.com/ |
| 12:57.49 | TMc51 | Which is why I redacted the statement. :o |
| 12:57.52 | Jamash | been done yo |
| 12:58.02 | Xevion | i know... but i come from germany and we build in German ^^ |
| 12:58.06 | Jamash | aaah |
| 12:58.35 | Fisker | jnwhiteh |
| 12:58.40 | Fisker | you never answered my question |
| 12:58.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Guardix (~Martin@0x5da165ee.hinqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 12:59.11 | jnwhiteh | Fisker: you didn't ask one |
| 12:59.12 | jnwhiteh | you pinged me |
| 12:59.16 | jnwhiteh | and then started talking some shit. |
| 12:59.17 | Xevion | the database is ready... the page is ready... But at the moment we want bring the Features that the Users can upload which Pets they have (and see which they should collect next^^) |
| 12:59.24 | jnwhiteh | you said you need to buy apps on the market |
| 12:59.29 | jnwhiteh | I never saw a question before I had to go |
| 12:59.52 | Jamash | yeah it'd be quite easy to make an addon that would export your companions and mounts into a url they could paste into their browser |
| 13:00.05 | Fisker | well i don't even remember now jnwhiteh |
| 13:00.13 | jnwhiteh | so how am I supposed to? |
| 13:00.17 | Fisker | but in any case the gist of it was that i wanted to know what apps i should buy |
| 13:00.17 | Fisker | :o |
| 13:00.17 | Xevion | that sounds good Jamash^^ |
| 13:00.22 | jnwhiteh | oh |
| 13:00.26 | jnwhiteh | you can buy ones that you like |
| 13:00.33 | jnwhiteh | I've never felt overly compelled to buy things for features |
| 13:00.40 | jnwhiteh | I buy them to support the developer, as I already use their software. |
| 13:00.42 | Xevion | is it also possible to save this info to a LUA File ? |
| 13:00.56 | jnwhiteh | I use Smart Keyboard Pro, SwiftKey, ROM Manager, and a few others. |
| 13:00.57 | Fisker | pirate jnwhiteh |
| 13:01.09 | Fisker | got rom manager :P |
| 13:01.13 | Fisker | but got that beforehand |
| 13:01.18 | Jamash | Sure |
| 13:01.19 | Legorol | he's managing his own roms of course! |
| 13:01.26 | Fisker | i'm probably gonna want to use swype |
| 13:01.27 | Fisker | it's awesome |
| 13:01.34 | Legorol | he'd never think about stealing from big global corporate entities like Nintendo |
| 13:01.51 | Xevion | that sounds very great... i will wisper u Jamash ^^ |
| 13:04.28 | jnwhiteh | Fisker: .. I'm a pirate? |
| 13:04.30 | jnwhiteh | k |
| 13:04.34 | jnwhiteh | should clearly move to sweden |
| 13:06.25 | Kraps | people are not happy |
| 13:07.33 | Kraps | members of Taint and AIE and Goon Squad are posting |
| 13:09.10 | *** join/#wowuidev BigRedBrent (~Brent@pool-72-86-75-100.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 13:09.20 | TMc51 | jnwiteh, are there any plans for a WoW Programming third edition sometime after Cataclysm releases? |
| 13:12.28 | jnwhiteh | no |
| 13:12.40 | jnwhiteh | and it helps to spell my name correctly, otherwise I would have missed your message =) |
| 13:12.49 | mikma | cockhairy |
| 13:12.49 | jnwhiteh | the API on the web will be updated as it comes out, of course |
| 13:12.59 | TMc51 | Yeah, sorry, tend to make a few typos when typing fast. |
| 13:13.09 | jnwhiteh | there's not all that much that would change content-wise. |
| 13:13.34 | TMc51 | Was just asking since Second Edition was one of the best books I've bought in the past year, or so. |
| 13:13.41 | jnwhiteh | thanks |
| 13:13.49 | jnwhiteh | well all of the chapters shoudl still apply |
| 13:13.58 | jnwhiteh | they were written with 3.X+ in mind |
| 13:14.06 | jnwhiteh | so I tried to be very careful about doing this 'right' |
| 13:14.49 | krka | jnwhiteh: Call confirm ftw! |
| 13:15.00 | jnwhiteh | ? |
| 13:15.06 | krka | talking android applications? |
| 13:15.13 | jnwhiteh | nope, not at all, actually! |
| 13:15.24 | krka | oh sorry then |
| 13:15.53 | BigRedBrent | :) |
| 13:17.36 | TMc51 | BTW, jnwhiteh, I noticed your profile on WoWI says you're from Syracuse. What side were you from? |
| 13:17.43 | jnwhiteh | 13211 =) |
| 13:17.48 | jnwhiteh | northern suburb |
| 13:18.04 | TMc51 | Ahh, guessed as much. Only Northsiders ever make much of themselves these days. |
| 13:18.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Cide@c213-100-51-33.swipnet.se) |
| 13:18.10 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 13:18.51 | TMc51 | Southsiders become statistics, east siders keep to themselves, and westenders just fall off the grid. |
| 13:19.01 | jnwhiteh | well I wasn't a proper 'city' resident |
| 13:19.12 | jnwhiteh | I was in the Town of Salina and went to CNS |
| 13:19.17 | TMc51 | Yeah, I got what you meant by suburbs. |
| 13:19.21 | jnwhiteh | it was also a different world when I still lived there :P |
| 13:19.23 | Lopeppeppy | New York State, represent! :) |
| 13:19.26 | jnwhiteh | =) |
| 13:19.38 | TMc51 | outlying town thats considered part of the city. |
| 13:19.42 | krka | Nacka kommun, represent! |
| 13:19.55 | TMc51 | Where from NY are you, Lopeppeppy? |
| 13:20.35 | Lopeppeppy | Albany area ish ish ish |
| 13:20.45 | TMc51 | BOOOOO downstate! |
| 13:20.58 | Lopeppeppy | Originally from way upstate though, family lives along the St. Lawrence river. |
| 13:21.09 | TMc51 | nice |
| 13:21.33 | Lopeppeppy | We always got a snow day when the temperature was below -30 degrees, 'cause the buses wouldn't start. :) |
| 13:22.18 | jnwhiteh | I miss the snow in Syracuse =( |
| 13:22.24 | TMc51 | Same. Although, in high school, it had to be -35 windchill, tons of black ice, or 4' of snow for a snowday. Imagine walking a mile and a half through that kind of crap. >.< |
| 13:22.44 | TMc51 | If I could ship you all the snow that falls here, I would. =( |
| 13:22.49 | TMc51 | Want the cold, with it? |
| 13:23.04 | jnwhiteh | I love the cold |
| 13:23.10 | jnwhiteh | I don't like the weather in England very much |
| 13:23.11 | jnwhiteh | but *shrug* |
| 13:23.26 | jnwhiteh | I miss the seasons, and don't like how humid it remains in the winter |
| 13:23.33 | TMc51 | Isn't it rainy and wet there or something? Figured you'd be used to that sort by now. |
| 13:23.46 | jnwhiteh | it is rainy and wet |
| 13:23.51 | Lopeppeppy | You never get used to it, if you miss the weather where you were. :) |
| 13:23.51 | jnwhiteh | I'm used to it, that doesn't mean I have to like it =) |
| 13:24.07 | Lopeppeppy | I don't mind cold, or snow. I hate ice, which is what winters are turning into. Ick. |
| 13:24.10 | TMc51 | I love rain. Makes for the best sleepign weather. |
| 13:24.15 | mikma | jnwhiteh: oh you are gonna love finland after new year then... |
| 13:24.31 | jnwhiteh | mikma: if its snowing and cold, then I'll be happy =) |
| 13:24.33 | mikma | jnwhiteh: i am predicting -35c |
| 13:24.47 | jnwhiteh | when I got to Copenhagen and saw 6" of snow, I was happy :P |
| 13:25.08 | mikma | we got extra amount of snow here last year |
| 13:25.17 | mikma | it was .. literally everywhere |
| 13:25.26 | Lopeppeppy | I'm the only one of my neighbors to actually own a snow shovel. It's hilarious how they try to use brooms to sweep away 2 feet of snow. |
| 13:25.31 | BigRedBrent | I like fall and spring, you can keep everything else. |
| 13:25.37 | TMc51 | Man, I sort of look forward to once I can afford a new truck, and don't. I predict having to spend a ton of work getting it cold-weather proof to start it, or stay warm in it. |
| 13:26.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Schnaks (~Schnaks@p4FC4D848.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:26.43 | Lopeppeppy | Block warmer for the win, TMc51. |
| 13:26.45 | TMc51 | Lopeppeppy, I had to use a broom once at one of my old jobs. It's hard work. D: |
| 13:27.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Odlaw (~ozzy@c-98-245-3-204.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 13:27.47 | TMc51 | Yeah, I know. I'll probably pay 3500 for the truck, and then another 1-2k on insulation and other stuff so i dont freeze my rear off in it. diesel trucks may be awesome, but compared to gas, hard as heck to start in winter even with block warmers. |
| 13:28.44 | *** part/#wowuidev BigRedBrent (~Brent@pool-72-86-75-100.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 13:31.01 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 13:31.03 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 13:32.36 | Xinhuan | "We have pulled a large number of statistics to get to the 600 member cap for guilds and we are happy to say that this value covers more than 99.9% of all the active guilds in World of Warcraft." |
| 13:32.55 | Xinhuan | i wonder how many percent of that 99.9% is under 2man |
| 13:33.01 | Xinhuan | (bank alts) |
| 13:33.17 | jnwhiteh | yeah, hard to tell |
| 13:33.23 | jnwhiteh | how many do we know that are over 600? |
| 13:33.44 | jnwhiteh | I know Bouvi has oe |
| 13:33.46 | jnwhiteh | one |
| 13:33.48 | Ackis | now that the statistic has been released more people will make those large mega guilds just for spite |
| 13:34.43 | Humbedooh | 600 unique members or 600 characters (main, alts etc) in the guild? |
| 13:34.55 | Lopeppeppy | When groups reach the guild limit, they just start a new guild and affiliate... *sigh* That stat my not capture the reality. |
| 13:35.05 | Lopeppeppy | Oh well, says the chick who likes small groups! |
| 13:35.13 | krka | that's what she said! |
| 13:35.57 | Thunder_Child | that was redundant |
| 13:36.15 | krka | yes, that was redundant :( |
| 13:36.33 | Thunder_Child | yea, that was redundant |
| 13:37.38 | Cide | I'm pretty sure 99.9% still applies to non-bank-alt guilds also |
| 13:39.36 | Lopeppeppy | stalks |Jelly| |
| 13:40.22 | |Jelly| | rawr rawr rawr |
| 13:42.19 | Lopeppeppy | and how is your day, handsome!? |
| 13:42.57 | Ackis | I'm fine thanks for asking |
| 13:43.25 | Lopeppeppy | gently pokes Ackis. |
| 13:43.37 | Ackis | s/Ackis/Handsome Ackis/ |
| 13:43.53 | |Jelly| | hmm ... well, I didn't get a lot of sleep |
| 13:44.07 | |Jelly| | My phone has been blowing up non-stop. GG me for using it as an alarm clock. |
| 13:44.21 | Lopeppeppy | That's not a very nice phone. |
| 13:44.59 | |Jelly| | Well, FaceBook texts me. |
| 13:45.58 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 13:46.36 | Lopeppeppy | Oh, yeah, I can see how that's gonna be 'splodey |
| 13:47.03 | |Jelly| | Yeah but oh wells. |
| 13:47.16 | |Jelly| | I get free lunch today at Firehouse Subs! go me? |
| 13:48.24 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 13:48.29 | Lopeppeppy | TNSTAAFL! |
| 13:48.41 | |Jelly| | blinks? |
| 13:48.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Kazie (~Kazie@78.156.121.4) |
| 13:48.55 | Lopeppeppy | mourns. |
| 13:49.19 | Lopeppeppy | There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. Heinlein, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress (I believe) |
| 13:49.30 | |Jelly| | oh wow ... I have to leave for work in twn minutes. gg beta |
| 13:49.35 | |Jelly| | tEn |
| 13:50.10 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 13:50.16 | Lopeppeppy | Good thing you have short hair. |
| 13:51.27 | |Jelly| | I /really/ need a haircut. |
| 13:51.41 | Lopeppeppy | I'll do it! |
| 13:51.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Avis_ (~Avis@24-181-71-177.dhcp.nwnn.ga.charter.com) |
| 13:51.52 | Lopeppeppy | I have a vacuum and some chicken-boning shears. |
| 13:54.37 | |Jelly| | I want a Suck-N-Cut! |
| 13:55.31 | Lopeppeppy | My vacuum brings all the long-haired boys to the yard. |
| 13:55.50 | Ackis | they changed the realm first stuff to not give any rewards/titles? |
| 13:56.20 | |Jelly| | and ready for work ... luckily my job is retail and lawlable |
| 13:56.25 | |Jelly| | i might be on later. <3 peppy |
| 13:57.05 | cogwheel | GMORNING! |
| 13:57.23 | Ackis | hey cogwheel how's that global warming going you bastard? |
| 13:57.25 | cogwheel | coffee coffee coffee coffee *bouncebounce* |
| 13:57.26 | TMc51 | G'morn |
| 13:57.43 | cogwheel | Ackis: it was 113 in socal last week |
| 13:58.06 | Ackis | see |
| 13:58.09 | Ackis | it's a myth |
| 13:58.31 | cogwheel | that local weather can be predicted by global warming? yes. |
| 13:58.34 | cogwheel | :P |
| 13:58.53 | Ackis | no |
| 13:59.01 | cogwheel | also FU youtube |
| 13:59.02 | Ackis | that there's global warming! |
| 13:59.06 | Ackis | no FUUUUU |
| 13:59.07 | Ackis | :D |
| 13:59.18 | Ackis | I got woken up by 3 puppy dogs this morning |
| 13:59.58 | cogwheel | i got up a couple times in the middle of the night to finish encoding and start uploading my next lfmf |
| 14:00.12 | cogwheel | only to have yt reject one of the parts for being a few seconds over 15 mins |
| 14:00.19 | cogwheel | even though the other part was also a few seconds over |
| 14:00.20 | Ackis | owned |
| 14:00.27 | Ackis | you just got owned cogwheel |
| 14:00.31 | cogwheel | idd |
| 14:00.32 | Ackis | blame it on global warming |
| 14:00.43 | cogwheel | ~lart global warming |
| 14:00.43 | purl | DoSes global warming |
| 14:01.05 | cogwheel | OMG purl just solved global warming! |
| 14:01.09 | cogwheel | we just need to DoS it... |
| 14:01.30 | Ackis | truth |
| 14:01.48 | cogwheel | buy me a new HD Ackis |
| 14:01.56 | cogwheel | mine is filling up with fail |
| 14:02.34 | Ackis | s/fail/donkey pr0n/ |
| 14:03.26 | Fisker | i'm fucked cogwheel |
| 14:03.43 | Ackis | grats on losing your virginity Fisker |
| 14:03.49 | Ackis | who's the lucky man? |
| 14:03.57 | Nechckn | Folks - Anyone know for sure if reforging makes an item BOP - imagine it does, but want to be sure. |
| 14:04.34 | amro | nothing can change the bind condition :P |
| 14:04.54 | foxlit | still a valid question, though |
| 14:05.10 | Nechckn | Does it bind the item to the reforger, then. =P Mean. |
| 14:05.15 | Nechckn | heheehee |
| 14:05.34 | Fisker | can't believe you would say that just after leaving my house when i woke up Ackis |
| 14:05.35 | Humbedooh | you mean; Does it make the item soulbound :) |
| 14:05.39 | Fisker | we're through |
| 14:06.43 | Lopeppeppy | I'm sorry to hear about your breakup, Fisker and Ackis. Here, have a cookie. |
| 14:07.04 | Fisker | hey Lopeppeppy |
| 14:07.08 | Fisker | i'm on the rebound |
| 14:07.27 | industrial | Ackis: Fisker doesn't need you anymore. |
| 14:07.30 | Lopeppeppy | Don't look at me, I'm in mourning for 6 months. |
| 14:08.05 | Ackis | yay if I knew I was gonna get a cookie I would've dumped Fisker a long time ago |
| 14:09.23 | Nechckn | scratches Lopeppeppy under the chin. |
| 14:09.55 | mikma | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUus_-DEpTA |
| 14:10.00 | Fisker | she's not a cat Nechckn |
| 14:10.36 | industrial | Fisker didn't do it all for the nookie, yeah the nookie, yeah the nookie so ackis can take that cookie and stick it up his yeah stick it up his yeah etcetc |
| 14:12.33 | Fisker | yay |
| 14:12.48 | Fisker | Blizzard finally went ahead and stopped doing item reimbursements |
| 14:12.53 | Jamash | orly |
| 14:13.02 | Fisker | basically yeah |
| 14:13.06 | industrial | why |
| 14:13.10 | Fisker | i.e. on the 2hour refund shit |
| 14:13.29 | *** join/#wowuidev the-golem (~Darrin@c-98-255-201-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 14:13.35 | Fisker | Blizzard kept refunding in many cases where players had contacted them after the 2hour sell limit, gemmed, enchanted, etc. |
| 14:13.43 | Lopeppeppy | Fisker, I am part cat. This has been established. |
| 14:13.51 | Humbedooh | Ackis: I put that doodlepad ticket on curseforge because the problem wasn't with the client, but your repository, ever since Torhal changed the slug :p |
| 14:13.51 | Jamash | but which part |
| 14:14.04 | Lopeppeppy | That said, I do not advise that unless you have hands to spare, Nechckn... |
| 14:14.19 | Lopeppeppy | Jamash, wouldn't you like to know? *purr* |
| 14:14.22 | Fisker | curse repos run on slugs? |
| 14:14.26 | Fisker | brain eating slugs? |
| 14:14.34 | Jamash | I am not surprised |
| 14:14.35 | Ackis | Humbedooh: everything looks like it's working however, you just said that the client wasn't picking up the changes properly? |
| 14:14.45 | Xtek | Fisker, hmm? |
| 14:15.36 | Humbedooh | it wasn't reporting any new files as available from the repository, but it seems that the new r18 did get fetched a few seconds after I uploaded it |
| 14:15.57 | Humbedooh | so I guess the magic monkeys did something |
| 14:16.25 | Ackis | Humbedooh: just takes time for syncing, I saw r17 on curse.com when I responded to your ticket, you hadn't done r18 yet |
| 14:16.45 | Humbedooh | ye well r15 was uploaded several hours ago and never synced :< |
| 14:17.05 | Humbedooh | though it did show on curse.com as available |
| 14:17.14 | *** part/#wowuidev Xevion (~Xevion@dslb-094-220-236-026.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:17.27 | Humbedooh | aaanywho, it's working again with r18 |
| 14:17.37 | Humbedooh | so I'll just blame Torhal! |
| 14:17.46 | Ackis | sounds good |
| 14:18.41 | Humbedooh | yes, blaming Torhal is good |
| 14:19.06 | Jamash | global warming is Torhal's fault |
| 14:23.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@BC24BCF2.dsl.pool.telekom.hu) |
| 14:23.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Mihau (~asmith@69.73.16.202) |
| 14:26.30 | mitch0 | indeed. he farts too much |
| 14:28.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@BC24BCF2.dsl.pool.telekom.hu) |
| 14:28.35 | cogwheel | infers that Xtek gets pinged on "curse" |
| 14:30.21 | cogwheel | *sighs at his broken switch* bbl |
| 14:39.17 | Jamash | yay mend pet scales |
| 14:39.56 | Jamash | also it costs nothing and has no cooldown, hmm |
| 14:40.23 | foxlit | macro it to everything time? |
| 14:40.48 | Nechckn | Lopeppeppy with my dealings in neighborhood kitties, my hands/arms now have nine lives! |
| 14:41.18 | Nechckn | (Or at least seem to with the number of "playful" scratches they have acquired |
| 14:43.20 | Lopeppeppy | I am more bobcat. Beware. |
| 14:44.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Borgleader (Borgleader@132.207.251.94) |
| 14:46.08 | Fisker | bye Lopeppeppy |
| 14:47.56 | Lopeppeppy | Bye bye, Fisker-du. |
| 14:48.51 | Fisker | Christian Bale Lopeppeppy |
| 14:49.17 | Lopeppeppy | Is that contagious? |
| 14:49.35 | Cide | I think so |
| 14:49.56 | *** join/#wowuidev boshi_dev (~chris@c-68-36-37-83.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 14:50.04 | Lopeppeppy | I'll have to ask for a vaccination at my yearly. |
| 14:54.20 | Adys | Anyone here landing in LA on the day before blizzcon? |
| 14:54.42 | Adys | im sharing a shuttle with a friend, trying to see if we can add any more |
| 14:54.56 | Humbedooh | you need the company of a gentleman, eh? |
| 14:55.08 | Adys | no, i just want to have sex in the back seat |
| 14:56.32 | Ackis | so yes he needs a gentleman |
| 14:56.44 | Adys | aye |
| 14:58.59 | Jamash | mastery is double confusing |
| 14:59.05 | Adys | Today, I got hit by a flying log of Salami that someone threw out of their car window, and its metal wire cut my shoulder. I got scarred by a flying hunk of pig. FML |
| 14:59.06 | Jamash | it's a rating rating |
| 14:59.16 | Jamash | huh |
| 14:59.56 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 15:01.21 | Ackis | "If it's from anything @microsoft.com then it's legit. I've gotten plenty of emails from them, and while the beginning part of the email usually changes, they always say @microsoft.com at the end." |
| 15:01.24 | Ackis | lulz |
| 15:01.53 | Fisker | nevcairiel |
| 15:01.56 | Fisker | i'm raging |
| 15:01.59 | nevcairiel | I should send that guy some instructions to wire me some money |
| 15:02.01 | foxlit | http://www.xbox360achievements.org/forum/showthread.php?p=3583386 |
| 15:02.05 | foxlit | google is talking you, Ackis. |
| 15:02.05 | industrial | Ackis: So used to being taken care of |
| 15:02.12 | foxlit | ^s |
| 15:02.27 | Fisker | all those new monitors |
| 15:02.30 | Fisker | and they're all 16:9 |
| 15:02.32 | Fisker | fuck that |
| 15:02.59 | nevcairiel | 16:9 sucks, buy a damn tv if you want that |
| 15:03.23 | foxlit | buy 16:9 and rotate it sideways? |
| 15:03.26 | Ackis | wtf foxlit I just linked that to Torhal in MSN after I replied to it |
| 15:03.28 | Torhal | drops global warming squarely on Jamash's head. |
| 15:03.34 | Ackis | are you stalking me foxlit? |
| 15:03.47 | Ackis | thinks he's being stalked. |
| 15:03.56 | Ackis | :D |
| 15:04.00 | Torhal | You're being corralled, Ackis. |
| 15:04.08 | Ackis | proper URL is http://www.xbox360achievements.org/forum/showpost.php?p=3583174&postcount=5 btw |
| 15:04.27 | foxlit | yes, but then you can't see the "Ackis" reply :P |
| 15:04.34 | Jamash | so 113 mastery rating increases my mastery by X but that increases my actual mastery effect by Y |
| 15:04.40 | foxlit | and the cute, cuddly avatar? :) |
| 15:04.53 | foxlit | Jamash: yes. Total UI failure. |
| 15:05.06 | foxlit | Also, I can never tell whether the % amount in various tooltips takes rating into account or not. |
| 15:05.13 | Ackis | foxlit: my reply is epic |
| 15:05.20 | Jamash | listen to these two tooltips |
| 15:05.32 | Adys | Jamash: Mastery gives you a specific bonus. Mastery rating increases the effectiveness of that bonus |
| 15:05.34 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy_ (~stolenleg@d86-32-230-103.cust.tele2.at) |
| 15:05.36 | Adys | what's not to understand? |
| 15:05.50 | foxlit | Adys: mastery rating gets you mastery points |
| 15:06.01 | Adys | so? |
| 15:06.11 | foxlit | The benefit of your mastery ability benefits from those mastery points. |
| 15:06.14 | Jamash | "When at less than 35% health, your pet has a 60% reduced chance to be critically hit" |
| 15:06.16 | Adys | ... so? |
| 15:06.17 | foxlit | It's TWO conversions. |
| 15:06.26 | Adys | no it's not |
| 15:06.33 | Jamash | "Reduces the chance your pet will be critically hit by melee attacks by 2%" |
| 15:06.34 | Adys | dont view the former as a conversion in the first place.. |
| 15:06.45 | Jamash | Adys: yes it is |
| 15:07.14 | Jamash | rating -> mastery -> effect |
| 15:07.16 | foxlit | In short, in order to figure out what I actually gain from a piece of gear, I have to take the mastery rating, figure out how many mastery points it translates to, and then multiply it by whatever my mastery tooltip says the benefit per point is. |
| 15:07.17 | Adys | when im in a foreign country i dont count the amount of dollar it takes me to have one euro and and :/ |
| 15:07.34 | Jamash | Adys: metaphail |
| 15:07.40 | Adys | no, not metaphail |
| 15:07.49 | Adys | jamaphail for not understanding base logic |
| 15:07.59 | Jamash | we're talking about what it says on the *actual tooltip* |
| 15:08.07 | Jamash | rating -> mastery -> effect |
| 15:08.26 | Adys | dont. convert. it. |
| 15:08.37 | Adys | view mastery as a single entity rather than a percentage |
| 15:08.38 | Jamash | what |
| 15:08.53 | Jamash | so to you, $100 = 100 euros? |
| 15:08.56 | Adys | view crit rating as something between 1 and 400 instead of between 5 and 100 or some shit |
| 15:08.58 | Adys | dude |
| 15:08.58 | Jamash | or 100 pounds? |
| 15:09.07 | Jamash | it's just a number, yeah? |
| 15:09.30 | Adys | when im in a country, i dont give a shit about other countries' currencies |
| 15:09.43 | Adys | i hit the off switch and give myself another base |
| 15:09.53 | Jamash | so you're saying you see a sign that says "100 (unit of currency)" and to you that's always the same |
| 15:09.58 | Adys | no. |
| 15:10.06 | Jamash | pesos or yen or renminbi |
| 15:10.15 | Jamash | or pounds of crushed diamonds |
| 15:10.18 | Jamash | 100 = 100 |
| 15:10.21 | airtonix | spanish channel is over there >>> |
| 15:10.22 | Adys | No, ffs. |
| 15:10.28 | *** join/#wowuidev cogwheel (4b6507b2@WoWUIDev/WoWProgramming/morlando/cogwheel) |
| 15:10.53 | Adys | i switched currencies like 4 times in just a few years |
| 15:11.02 | Adys | i never had any issues figuring out how much i pay for some bread |
| 15:11.12 | Jamash | OK now let's say you're in china and all the prices are in euros but the coupons are in yen and you have to pay in rupees |
| 15:11.24 | Jamash | that's mastery |
| 15:11.31 | Adys | be it 6.50 francs, .95 euros, .60gbp or god knows what |
| 15:11.34 | foxlit | Your point is that you want to convert rating to benefits directly |
| 15:11.58 | Adys | then .. do so? |
| 15:12.02 | foxlit | The problem with that is that point / rating is an even nastier value that changes as you level. |
| 15:12.10 | Adys | convert "mastery rating" into "benefits" |
| 15:12.18 | Adys | dont go through "mastery rating" to "mastery percent" |
| 15:12.23 | foxlit | ^ |
| 15:12.35 | Adys | just like you don't go through "10 crit rating is 1 crit percent which is 0.8 dps" |
| 15:12.42 | Adys | you go "10 crit rating is 0.8 dps" |
| 15:13.03 | foxlit | Which is pretty silly |
| 15:13.08 | Jamash | hi, I'm the game, wow, 4.0, cataclysm, in which the UI displays mastery rating and mastery and mastery benefit separately and is not easy to understand |
| 15:13.11 | Adys | example numbers and stuff |
| 15:13.13 | foxlit | As the dps worth of crit rating changes with other stas. |
| 15:13.23 | Adys | obviously |
| 15:13.24 | Fisker | a |
| 15:13.28 | Adys | was just giving an example |
| 15:13.30 | Jamash | have we met |
| 15:13.42 | Adys | Jamash: look at what's relevant |
| 15:13.53 | Adys | i can't possibly fathom what's complex about all this |
| 15:14.06 | Adys | but if it is, don't look at it |
| 15:14.15 | foxlit | Quick, how much benefits does 1 point of mastery rating get (your spec)? :) |
| 15:14.26 | Adys | look at 60 mastery rating on an item and go "woah! that seems like a lot! im gonna equip it!" |
| 15:14.34 | Jamash | that is |
| 15:14.36 | Jamash | in a word |
| 15:14.38 | Jamash | stupid |
| 15:15.25 | foxlit | The UI design itself is stupid -- should've hidden the heck out of ratings and just made your gear's stats degrade as you level. |
| 15:15.34 | Jamash | ^ |
| 15:15.34 | Adys | if your brain is so broken that it can't ever properly view 60 mastery rating as an upgrade over whatever-other-base, you're gonna have to do that :P |
| 15:15.37 | Adys | agreed with foxlit though |
| 15:15.38 | foxlit | In fact, I should write an addon that does that. |
| 15:15.51 | Jamash | You're the one who's insisting that I'm too stupid to understand mastery |
| 15:15.59 | Adys | Im not saying that |
| 15:16.02 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 15:16.02 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 15:16.03 | Jamash | I'm the one pointing out that it shouldn't be difficult to understand |
| 15:16.06 | Jamash | yes you are |
| 15:16.08 | Jamash | you just did |
| 15:16.30 | Adys | I gave you a conditional, you're saying you meet it, that's all |
| 15:16.31 | Ackis | files a bug report with foxlit: as I level my gears stats decrease! you broke my gear! HACKER! |
| 15:16.43 | Adys | lol Ackis |
| 15:18.05 | Adys | Jamash: i dont know what to tell you |
| 15:18.12 | Adys | theres much worse than this in the game |
| 15:18.14 | Jamash | I don't see why, when I point out that mastery uses a double conversion instead of a single conversion, you're telling me it doesn't |
| 15:18.26 | *** join/#wowuidev nudave (~nudave@cpe-67-253-159-254.rochester.res.rr.com) |
| 15:18.30 | Adys | of course it does, but you don't have to VIEW it as two conversions |
| 15:18.52 | airtonix | >< |
| 15:19.16 | airtonix | Jamash, we are privy to a grand secret of which you obviously have not yet discovered. |
| 15:19.17 | Jamash | <foxlit>It's TWO conversions. |
| 15:19.19 | Jamash | <Adys>no it's not |
| 15:19.20 | Jamash | <Jamash> herp derp derp derp derp derp derp |
| 15:19.43 | Legorol | two conversions? sounds interesting, how so |
| 15:19.50 | Legorol | never looked at mastery |
| 15:20.03 | Shirik | looking at a postage stamp |
| 15:20.07 | Shirik | face value: 24 cents |
| 15:20.11 | Adys | if you want to go from euro to dollar to yen to whatever |
| 15:20.12 | Legorol | Shirik: don't lick it! |
| 15:20.15 | Shirik | estimated value: $825k |
| 15:20.24 | Legorol | see, i told you not to lick it |
| 15:20.29 | Shirik | no I don't have it lol |
| 15:20.32 | Jamash | you get, say, 100 mastery rating on an item, this gives you (forexample) 10 mastery, which then gives you (forexample) 7.12312548% increased foozlewatsis |
| 15:20.33 | Legorol | is this stamp in your possession perhaps? |
| 15:20.34 | Adys | Jamash: if you want to go from usd to canadian dollar to euro to yen, you don't do 4 conversions, you do ONE |
| 15:20.36 | Legorol | shame |
| 15:21.01 | Legorol | Jamash: ok thanks |
| 15:21.23 | Legorol | so it's like hit then? hit rating -> hit chance -> % dps increase |
| 15:21.30 | Jamash | the mastery rating to mastery conversion depends on your character level |
| 15:21.35 | Legorol | obviously |
| 15:21.39 | Jamash | the mastery to effect conversion depends on your spec |
| 15:21.48 | Legorol | naturally |
| 15:21.53 | foxlit | Legorol: there's no problem there, because *hit chance* is the interesting benefit :) |
| 15:21.59 | Jamash | the conversion rate is different for every class and spec |
| 15:22.00 | Legorol | is it? |
| 15:22.04 | Legorol | i thought dps increase is the interesting benfit |
| 15:22.35 | Legorol | is just trolling, ignore him |
| 15:23.26 | Jamash | so in adys's increasingly unconvincing metaphor, you pay for bread in euros but milk in yuan and I'm asking why aren't the prices in dollars |
| 15:24.03 | Fisker | i rampage u Legorol |
| 15:24.08 | Jamash | the tooltip should say X mastery rating = Y effect, not X mastery rating = Y mastery = Z effect |
| 15:24.11 | Legorol | fisker: i lick you |
| 15:24.30 | Jamash | and the character stat sheet should show Y effect, not Y mastery |
| 15:24.34 | Legorol | Jamash: what if you intend to use the gear with 2 or more specs? |
| 15:24.41 | Fisker | oh u Legorol |
| 15:24.43 | Legorol | i think it's good to know the intermediary too, which is spec independent |
| 15:24.58 | Legorol | however, i agree on the confusion |
| 15:25.05 | Jamash | it's a useless value, though |
| 15:25.21 | Jamash | the rating will be the same, the effect will be different, who cares what the intermediary is? |
| 15:25.33 | Legorol | true |
| 15:25.42 | Legorol | i see your point and agree with it |
| 15:25.54 | Adys | Jamash: Im trying to decide if you're a troll or just have a broken view of numbers |
| 15:25.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (kalroth@d40aa2ad.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 15:25.57 | foxlit | Is there some easy way I can elevate a windows command shell without starting a new instance? |
| 15:26.11 | Legorol | Adys: i don't think he has a broken view, i agree with him |
| 15:26.18 | Legorol | the intermediary seems to serve no useful purpose |
| 15:26.19 | Jamash | Adys: I'm trying to decide if you're a troll or just have a broken view of user interface design. |
| 15:26.23 | Adys | [16:23:30] <Jamash> so in adys's increasingly unconvincing metaphor, you pay for bread in euros but milk in yuan and I'm asking why aren't the prices in dollars |
| 15:26.26 | Adys | that's full of troll |
| 15:26.31 | Legorol | that's true |
| 15:26.32 | airtonix | foxlit, just use sudo lololol |
| 15:26.40 | airtonix | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:26.45 | stolenlegacy | airtonix: windows... |
| 15:26.54 | Legorol | let's focus on WoW then :) rating -> % directly is doable, right? the UI could display it |
| 15:26.54 | airtonix | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:26.59 | stolenlegacy | ah |
| 15:27.02 | Legorol | the diminishing returns with level would be apparent from that too |
| 15:27.05 | Jamash | I'm not talking about the internal math, Adys, I'm talking about the UI |
| 15:27.06 | Adys | Legorol: yes it would be |
| 15:27.10 | Legorol | and the rating stays the same in all specs |
| 15:27.19 | Jamash | the internal math is irrelevant, the UI is broken |
| 15:27.21 | Legorol | so, indeed, i don't see the point of showing the intermediary, it seems to serve no purpose |
| 15:27.36 | Jamash | have you seen the Mastery tooltip, Adys? |
| 15:27.58 | Legorol | It's confusing enough as it is with distinction between expertise rating vs. expertise |
| 15:28.08 | Legorol | actually, expertise is an excellent example! |
| 15:28.10 | Jamash | yes, expertise and defense (RIP) are just as bad as mastery |
| 15:28.19 | Legorol | expertise rating -> expertise -> -% dodge/parry |
| 15:28.29 | Legorol | i always found it superfluous to have both expertise rating and expertise |
| 15:28.40 | Jamash | let's take expertise and resilience and compare them |
| 15:28.40 | Legorol | crit and hit go directly from rating to %, expertise should've done that too |
| 15:28.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Robsato (~Robsato@wetering.xs4all.nl) |
| 15:29.01 | airtonix | foxlit, use the runas command |
| 15:29.02 | Legorol | in no small part, due to expertise being displayed in addition to the rating, for a long time the community assumed that only whole numbers of expertise benefit you |
| 15:29.15 | Jamash | there's no resilience rating -> resilience -> % damage reduction conversion, it just goes from resilience rating -> damage reduction |
| 15:29.17 | Legorol | until very thorough testing has shown that fractional expertise (and rating) does benefit you |
| 15:29.18 | airtonix | runas /user:<insertusernamehere> <cmd> |
| 15:29.30 | foxlit | airtonix: thanks :) |
| 15:29.42 | airtonix | assuming you are using win7 |
| 15:29.50 | Jamash | yet there is an expertise rating -> expertise -> avoidance reduction conversion |
| 15:29.55 | foxlit | Technically, I should be able to run it as myself, just need a UAC sign-off |
| 15:29.59 | foxlit | (It's mklink) |
| 15:30.00 | Jamash | and a mastery rating -> mastery -> stuff conversion |
| 15:30.09 | airtonix | foxlit, http://www.win7heads.com/168767-post15.html |
| 15:30.16 | Legorol | the expertise thing is a relic from the old days of weapon skill |
| 15:30.46 | Jamash | indeed |
| 15:31.12 | Jamash | now, of course, I can (and when cata goes live, will) install RatingsBuster to deal with this bullshit, but I shouldn't have to |
| 15:31.20 | Legorol | i'm agreeing with Jamash even more now |
| 15:31.56 | foxlit | curse you, gems. |
| 15:32.15 | Fisker | i would foxlit you |
| 15:34.19 | jnwhiteh | gems you, curse! |
| 15:34.33 | Jamash | wow's stat conversions have fail all over them |
| 15:34.37 | Fisker | hey i'm Fisker jnwhiteh |
| 15:34.42 | Fisker | you fail Jamash |
| 15:34.43 | jnwhiteh | hey I'm jnwhiteh jnwhiteh |
| 15:35.03 | Jamash | like, how much health do you get from your stamina? |
| 15:35.33 | Jamash | (ignoring talents and forms) |
| 15:36.31 | foxlit | 10. |
| 15:36.35 | Jamash | wrong! |
| 15:36.37 | airtonix | kek |
| 15:36.41 | Legorol | yah stamina at least is the easiest thing |
| 15:37.10 | Legorol | although you have to differentiate between Hp from your total stamina vs. differentials |
| 15:37.20 | Jamash | as a hunter, on the beta, I have 9.925342181667 health per stamina |
| 15:37.23 | Jamash | why is that? |
| 15:37.26 | Legorol | a 1 stamina gain is 10 health gain, always |
| 15:37.31 | Legorol | that sounds borked, jamash |
| 15:37.35 | Jamash | nope |
| 15:37.41 | Legorol | unless you are looking at total stamina on your character sheet |
| 15:37.45 | Legorol | there's an offset |
| 15:37.51 | Jamash | it's because blizzard gives you 1 health per stamina for the first 10 points or so |
| 15:37.55 | Jamash | for no reason |
| 15:37.57 | Legorol | the gradient is fixed, but the intercept is not at 0 |
| 15:38.15 | Legorol | i think you might have done the test incorrectly |
| 15:38.17 | Jamash | why not just give starting characters less stamina? |
| 15:38.21 | Legorol | have you tested this by equpping/unequipping? |
| 15:38.41 | Jamash | total health / total stam = 9.92etc |
| 15:38.45 | Legorol | the tooltip on your char sheet's stamina entry is misleading (and stupid) |
| 15:38.49 | Legorol | no you can't do that division |
| 15:38.55 | Jamash | that's my point |
| 15:39.00 | Jamash | I should be able to |
| 15:39.07 | foxlit | You don't have a problem in practice |
| 15:39.10 | Legorol | you need to fit Health = Gradient * Stamina + Offset, where Gradient and Offset are unknown |
| 15:39.21 | foxlit | Because you can't really get rid of your base stamina |
| 15:39.24 | Legorol | you can't fit Health = Gradient * Stamina |
| 15:39.26 | Jamash | see previous comment "<Jamash> like, how much health do you get from your stamina?" |
| 15:39.31 | Jamash | woops, wrong comment |
| 15:39.36 | foxlit | In practice, +1 Stamina on gear will always get you +10 health. |
| 15:39.38 | Legorol | well your char has non-0 health at 0 stamina |
| 15:39.45 | Jamash | "<Jamash> wow's stat conversions have fail all over them" |
| 15:39.53 | Legorol | on this one, i disagree |
| 15:39.58 | Jamash | I cite this as an example of said fail |
| 15:40.02 | Legorol | stamina does give health, but there are other sources of health |
| 15:40.12 | Legorol | not in this case, jamash |
| 15:40.16 | Jamash | and yet, naked, with no buffs, your stamina and your health do not agree |
| 15:40.19 | Legorol | consider this: there are several sources of crit chance |
| 15:40.30 | Legorol | does that mean that the crit rating -> crit chance conversion is broken? no |
| 15:40.40 | Legorol | Jamash: because there is a non-stamina source of health |
| 15:40.47 | Legorol | just like there is +Hp enchant, which doesn't give stamina, |
| 15:40.53 | Legorol | your character,naked, can have non-0 health |
| 15:41.05 | Legorol | same as with crit chance |
| 15:41.08 | Legorol | or dodge or parry |
| 15:41.13 | Legorol | you can have non-0 amounts of those with 0 rating |
| 15:41.19 | Legorol | i don't see the difference |
| 15:42.17 | Legorol | there is one part that is a bit confusing, which i agree with: |
| 15:42.26 | Legorol | the tooltip on stamina on your char sheet is confusing |
| 15:42.46 | Legorol | for eample, right now it says for me: stamina 1386, increases health by 13680 |
| 15:42.59 | Legorol | i do think the offset should be merged into base Hp, and the tooltip should always be 10x |
| 15:43.04 | Legorol | just like it is with all the ratings |
| 15:44.21 | Jamash | Legorol: There isn't a non-stamina source of health |
| 15:44.35 | Jamash | there's a non-stamina health *deficit* |
| 15:45.34 | Jamash | wait, I got that wrong |
| 15:45.44 | Jamash | yeah, you're right |
| 15:46.05 | Legorol | there are also non-stamina +Hp effects, like enchants |
| 15:46.11 | foxlit | pop quiz: is there an API function to convert an arbitrary amount of a specific rating to the corresponding benefit percentage? |
| 15:46.29 | Legorol | nope |
| 15:46.42 | Legorol | but you can query current rating and benefit, and divide |
| 15:46.53 | foxlit | Which fails horribly if you don't have any |
| 15:47.01 | Jamash | divide by fisker error |
| 15:47.03 | Legorol | indeed :) |
| 15:47.28 | Jamash | btw I was wrong earlier, it's the first 20 points of stamina give 1 health each |
| 15:47.39 | Jamash | why? |
| 15:47.43 | Jamash | no reason |
| 15:48.47 | Legorol | hm, that sounds like it would matter in level 1-10 range |
| 15:48.58 | Legorol | unless you can't start with less than 20 sta |
| 15:49.04 | Jamash | let's take a level 1 hunter |
| 15:49.14 | Legorol | but but, i want a druid |
| 15:49.19 | Legorol | a gnome druid! |
| 15:49.23 | Jamash | 21 stamina increases health by 30 |
| 15:49.29 | TMc51 | SQUIRREL FORM! |
| 15:49.30 | Jamash | why not start with 3 stamina? |
| 15:49.46 | Jamash | or 0 stamina and base HP of 56? |
| 15:49.47 | foxlit | because 21 > 3. |
| 15:50.05 | foxlit | [but urgh.] |
| 15:50.06 | Jamash | in that case why not start with 56 stamina and have 1 sta = 1 hp? |
| 15:50.23 | foxlit | Jamash: because [Pants of Stamina]: + 5600 Stamina |
| 15:50.28 | Jamash | so? |
| 15:50.35 | airtonix | gigdigy |
| 15:50.50 | airtonix | is that stamina in your pants or are you just happy to see me |
| 15:50.51 | foxlit | adding four-digit numbers is haaard. |
| 15:50.57 | Jamash | actually why have stamina at all |
| 15:51.06 | Jamash | why not just have health |
| 15:51.11 | airtonix | have faith |
| 15:51.31 | foxlit | You can turn more knobs if you have separate stamina/health |
| 15:51.37 | airtonix | >< |
| 15:51.47 | airtonix | thats what they say about porn stars |
| 15:52.06 | foxlit | sigh, and then diministing returns on ratings |
| 15:52.06 | Jamash | Here's my take on this: the exact mechanics don't matter, but the UI should be consistent |
| 15:52.33 | foxlit | Do people maintain a list of formulas somewhere? |
| 15:52.37 | Jamash | yes |
| 15:52.44 | airtonix | in the unseen university |
| 15:52.48 | foxlit | A link would be awesome. |
| 15:52.49 | Jamash | formulas that change every expansion |
| 15:52.57 | foxlit | Yes, yes, it sucks. |
| 15:53.24 | Jamash | http://www.wowwiki.com/Combat_rating_system |
| 15:53.27 | foxlit | Should really expose GetRatingBenefit(ratingType, ratingValue, level), but meh. |
| 15:53.51 | Nechckn | Is that not the point of all of the theorycraft sites? To determine such things? |
| 15:53.55 | foxlit | Jamash: that seems out of date. |
| 15:54.08 | Jamash | how so? |
| 15:54.20 | foxlit | "As of patch 3.0.2, combat ratings that affect avoidance stats now have diminishing returns." |
| 15:54.26 | Jamash | it's up to date as of 3.blah |
| 15:54.27 | foxlit | And nothing more about that. |
| 15:54.50 | Gagorian | foxlit: http://www.wowwiki.com/API_GetCombatRatingBonus |
| 15:54.54 | Jamash | http://www.wowwiki.com/Melee_diminishing_returns |
| 15:55.03 | foxlit | Gagorian: yes, but no. |
| 15:55.22 | Gagorian | foxlit: Well it allows you to determine the benefit at your level |
| 15:55.29 | foxlit | I'm aware that it exists, but it doesn't do what I want. |
| 15:55.31 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~alestane@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 15:55.31 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 15:55.34 | Gagorian | but not for every level if that's what yoy need |
| 15:55.38 | foxlit | It allows you to determine your current benefit at your current level. |
| 15:55.41 | Jamash | simple, create a character of every level |
| 15:55.51 | foxlit | You can't even use it to determine what +20 rating will do to your +% dodge. |
| 15:56.22 | *** join/#wowuidev SeanK (~SeanK@pool-98-117-120-73.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 15:56.37 | foxlit | but hurray for external links |
| 15:56.38 | foxlit | http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t29453-combat_ratings_level_85_cataclysm/ |
| 15:56.58 | Nechckn | I think that it has been a bit silly, with a lot of fuzzymathz to "balance" things. But c'est la vie en WoW. |
| 15:57.00 | Jamash | the author of RatingBuster had to do a huge amount of work to get the values in the addon |
| 15:58.26 | Nechckn | Whitetooth is crazy- and amazing. |
| 15:58.46 | foxlit | I'm contemplating stealing them for a much smaller addon |
| 15:58.49 | cogwheel | amro: ep6 would've been up by now but YT is a bitch and rejected part 2. Had to split it into 3, and it's still encoding/uploading QQ |
| 15:59.02 | Nechckn | You really could not pay me to do that one or just about anything that has to do with crafting. |
| 15:59.24 | foxlit | But this seems to be a minefield where you can't do a clean UI design even if you knew every single one of those formulas. |
| 15:59.48 | foxlit | I mean, benefit to you decreases the more of that rating you have. How are you supposed to present that to the user? |
| 15:59.55 | Jamash | you're not |
| 16:00.09 | Jamash | unless you want to include a chart generating module |
| 16:01.59 | Nechckn | There used to be excel automated spreadsheets to do such things, but have no idea if there are any updated for the 4.x/Cat changes |
| 16:02.33 | foxlit | It's just that there is no clean way to present that value that is meaningful |
| 16:02.51 | Jamash | except a line that goes downnnnnnnnnn |
| 16:02.52 | olafski | how many wow players would understand such a chart anyway :P |
| 16:02.55 | foxlit | Those pants have "+5% dodge" unless you equip your "+3% dodge" gloves, in which case they have "+4.5% dodge" |
| 16:04.09 | olafski | "and then the +3% dodge gloves turn into +2.8% dodge gloves" ;-) |
| 16:04.16 | Nechckn | olafski and subtract the number who do not care/really and you have a tiny number |
| 16:04.28 | Jamash | all of whom read EJ |
| 16:04.56 | Nechckn | Eh... I think EJ has a few extras, just to see the end result. |
| 16:06.40 | foxlit | Given that they're reitemizing in Cata, it would've been nice if they removed those diminishing returns and just adjusted values on gear |
| 16:06.43 | olafski | I sort of care but I still don't read EJ |
| 16:06.57 | Nechckn | lol |
| 16:07.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (~Lunessa@WoWUIDev/Lunessa) |
| 16:07.14 | Lunessa | station |
| 16:07.32 | olafski | tried finding the info I needed there a couple of times but I couldn't find it through the forest of "no u" :P |
| 16:07.45 | Nechckn | Lunessa substitution |
| 16:08.08 | durcyn | Nechckn: prostitution |
| 16:08.20 | Jamash | durcyn: institution |
| 16:08.26 | Lunessa | We've secretly replaced #wowuidev's Lunessa with Folger's Instant Crystals... |
| 16:08.50 | durcyn | this is the most awkward word association therapy i've had in.. minutes. |
| 16:09.22 | Nechckn | durcyn procrastination |
| 16:10.11 | Jamash | so I gain a level (level 2 now) and my stamina goes up by 1, which increases my health by 10 from stamina, but I also get an amount of base health which is now invisible |
| 16:10.29 | Jamash | so I have 22 stamina, and 73 health |
| 16:10.43 | Jamash | why? |
| 16:10.47 | Jamash | it's a mystery |
| 16:11.09 | Nechckn | That is so when you get ganked by an 80 that you have more of a chance to come out on top! |
| 16:11.14 | Nechckn | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:11.17 | Jamash | 26 agility gives 16 attack power |
| 16:11.34 | Jamash | oh and int and spirit give nothing whatsoever |
| 16:11.43 | Jamash | why are they on my character sheet, then? |
| 16:12.55 | Lunessa | Int and Spirit give effects - but they're caster stats. So if you don't need mana, or mana regeneration they're mostly useless to you. Except for the health regeneration component to Spirit. |
| 16:13.16 | stew-a | all the base stats are always on your character sheet, even if you're a rogue/warrior with no use for int, or a priest who probably can't get much agility even iff they wanted to not that they need it |
| 16:13.21 | foxlit | [which still exists?] |
| 16:13.23 | Jamash | I'm going to refer back to http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?sid=1&topicId=26435196406 |
| 16:16.02 | Lunessa | So, you're just a douche with a mild case of "my joke is clever" syndrome. |
| 16:16.05 | Lunessa | :P |
| 16:16.29 | Jamash | I don't think my proposed system is worse than the existing one |
| 16:16.45 | Lunessa | It's actually not. |
| 16:16.51 | Jamash | which is to say, they're both terrible |
| 16:16.59 | Lunessa | I'm just giving you a ration for being a smart ass. |
| 16:17.38 | Jamash | better a smart ass than a dumb mule |
| 16:18.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (~Srosh@d134076.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 16:18.30 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 16:18.30 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 16:20.04 | Lunessa | For a brief time I worked doing game design for pen-and-paper rpgs. I always advocated simpler systems. Fewer stats, fewer complexities. When you don't have a computer crunching the numbers, you want things simple and quick to figure out. But when the computer can handle complex computations in pico-seconds, then you can be as complex as you like. |
| 16:21.22 | foxlit | Hah, the prince is awesome. |
| 16:21.44 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (~nuohep@89.222.156.36) |
| 16:22.59 | Lunessa | "Have you come to speak to my father?" |
| 16:23.35 | foxlit | "Something strange is happening in Stormwind" |
| 16:23.58 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:24.14 | foxlit | Luckily, they didn't voice that last one |
| 16:24.28 | Lunessa | Haha |
| 16:24.30 | Shirik | I disagree Lunessa |
| 16:24.40 | Shirik | simplicity can create complexity by allowing for more choices |
| 16:24.51 | Shirik | I'd rather even computerized games not be so complex |
| 16:25.30 | Shirik | RF Online is a good example. I chose a unique path because of its complexity and ended up creating what was essentially an entirely new class that wasn't initially conceived |
| 16:25.56 | Shirik | but the only reason I could do that was because the system was so simple |
| 16:26.02 | Shirik | so it didn't impose restrictions |
| 16:26.15 | Lunessa | Shirik: True, but I didn't want players to compute lots of complex equations on the fly. And I was working in the pen-and-paper games arena, not computer games. |
| 16:27.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@pool024.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 16:27.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 16:29.51 | Jamash | compare and contrast battleship and warhammer 40k |
| 16:30.17 | Lopeppeppy | Potatoes and tomatoes. |
| 16:30.25 | Shirik | I loved warhammer 40k |
| 16:30.27 | Jamash | both relatives of deadly nightshade |
| 16:31.48 | Lopeppeppy | Exactly, Jamash. |
| 16:32.51 | Jamash | all substances are poisons in the right concentration |
| 16:33.51 | Jamash | ~roll |
| 16:33.51 | purl | jamash rolls (56) |
| 16:34.02 | Shirik | ~roll |
| 16:34.02 | purl | shirik rolls (12) |
| 16:34.05 | Shirik | :( |
| 16:34.26 | TMc51 | ~roll |
| 16:34.26 | purl | tmc51 rolls (39) |
| 16:34.37 | Shirik | ~literal roll |
| 16:34.38 | purl | "roll" is "<reply>$who rolls (1-100)" |
| 16:34.47 | TMc51 | Crap, was hoping to beat you both, and ask why you were rolling. D: |
| 16:35.12 | Jamash | I was musing on the topic of pen and paper games |
| 16:35.19 | Jamash | some of which use percentile dice |
| 16:35.30 | TMc51 | Natural 20 |
| 16:36.45 | Jamash | natural http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%22what+is+love%22&a=*C.what+is+love-_*Miscellaneous- |
| 16:36.50 | Lunessa | Shirik: I too loved WH40K - for the setting. In '98/'99 when they really simplified the rules it got to be a pretty sweet game. |
| 16:37.22 | Shirik | the WoW TCG is also a very simple game that becomes very complex because of its simplicity |
| 16:37.30 | Jamash | infinity damage |
| 16:37.31 | alestane | One of the critical points they made in the design diaries for D&D 4E was that they wanted to make the game less simulationist. |
| 16:37.54 | Lunessa | managed to place #49 and #50 at US Grand Tourney in 98 and 99 respectively. Woo for coming in at the bottom of the list. |
| 16:37.59 | Jamash | sweet |
| 16:42.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Sliker (ponies@5e07b5fa.bb.sky.com) |
| 16:48.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Borgleader (Borgleader@132.207.247.123) |
| 16:51.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (~Srosh@d134076.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 16:53.22 | Shirik | I'll show you infinity damage Jamash |
| 16:53.29 | Jamash | UH OH |
| 16:53.33 | Lopeppeppy | *purr* |
| 16:53.47 | Jamash | 10 do damage |
| 16:53.52 | Jamash | 20 wait for it |
| 16:53.56 | Jamash | 30 wait for it... |
| 16:54.00 | Jamash | 40 HOLY SHIT |
| 16:54.01 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (~nuohep@89.222.156.36) |
| 16:54.29 | Shirik | "All cards everywhere are unique" "When a unique card enters play, your hero may deal 1 damage to target ally" "When this card enters play, you may place a card named [same name] from your graveyard into play" |
| 16:54.35 | Shirik | Oops, infinite loop |
| 16:54.38 | Shirik | everything dies |
| 16:54.42 | TC-Work | Lunessa: i prefer BFG myself |
| 16:54.46 | Jamash | CCG = suck |
| 16:54.54 | Shirik | no :( |
| 16:55.25 | TC-Work | Shirik: wait, doesnt that mean you can only do that 4 times? |
| 16:55.33 | Shirik | why 4? |
| 16:55.37 | TC-Work | since it has to be the same name as the card you played? |
| 16:55.42 | Shirik | no |
| 16:55.56 | msoul | Hey all |
| 16:55.59 | Shirik | Play A1 |
| 16:56.03 | Jamash | 4 * ∞ |
| 16:56.09 | Shirik | Play A2, A1 goes to graveyard due to uniqueness violation |
| 16:56.27 | Shirik | Play A3, A2 goes to graveyard due to uniqueness violation, A1 returns to play |
| 16:56.40 | Shirik | A1 causes a uniqueness violation with A3, A3 goes to graveyard, A2 returns to play |
| 16:56.54 | Shirik | A2 causes a uniqueness violation with A1, A1 goes to graveyard, A3 returns to play |
| 16:56.58 | Shirik | and so on |
| 16:56.59 | TC-Work | right, but they all have to be the same card right? |
| 16:57.02 | Jamash | did I mention CCGs suck |
| 16:57.03 | NightHawkTheSane | So, does anyone know why gvim is not picking up my PATH environment variable that i've set in my .bash* files? >.> (this is under gnome in ubuntu 10.04) |
| 16:57.04 | nebula | seems backward, should fizzle when you try and play it due to uniquness |
| 16:57.06 | Shirik | yes they're all named the same |
| 16:57.13 | Shirik | that's not how uniqueness violations work nebula |
| 16:57.21 | Jamash | NightHawkTheSane: did you log out? |
| 16:57.28 | NightHawkTheSane | Jamash: several times, yes. |
| 16:57.32 | nebula | i don't play, i was just saying it seems backward |
| 16:57.49 | Jamash | NightHawkTheSane: does gvim have a startup script that sets its PATH? |
| 16:58.03 | Arrowmaster | NightHawkTheSane: i dont think the ~/.bash* files will ever work on programs started from X |
| 16:58.26 | NightHawkTheSane | Arrowmaster: do you have a good way to set the path for them then? |
| 16:58.29 | Arrowmaster | set it in ~/.gnomerc |
| 16:58.40 | NightHawkTheSane | I have a .gnomerc file that includes my .bashrc file :P |
| 16:58.44 | Jamash | don't use gnome imo |
| 16:59.03 | Arrowmaster | NightHawkTheSane: you are exporting the path right |
| 16:59.08 | NightHawkTheSane | yes |
| 16:59.13 | Arrowmaster | no clue |
| 17:07.17 | Humbe^away | show them gnomerC! |
| 17:07.47 | Lunessa | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=27026377821&sid=2000 - sucks to be a guild with incredible numbers of people in it. |
| 17:09.06 | Jamash | I think that was true before the announcement |
| 17:09.13 | foxlit | Jack Bauden: "There's no time to warn the guard. [You]! You've got just minutes to get into the catacombs and disarm that bomb. Go! Now! Or THOUSANDS of PEOPLE will DIE!" |
| 17:09.31 | Lunessa | Jamash: It was. |
| 17:09.41 | Lopeppeppy | Lunessa, can we round up 600+ friends and go have fun!? |
| 17:10.30 | Lunessa | Lopeppeppy: You might have better luck at recruiting 590 more people. :) Apparently my recruitment skills are reduced by lack of boobs. |
| 17:10.44 | alestane | Lunessa: http://textsfromlastnight.com/Text-Replies-21174.html |
| 17:11.37 | Lunessa | alestane: LULZ. |
| 17:13.42 | Lunessa | I have trouble imagining guild chat for 600 active members - I mean... WTF, /g becomes /2? |
| 17:13.56 | alestane | Does that include alts though? |
| 17:14.06 | Lunessa | I'm sure it does. |
| 17:14.28 | alestane | I'd guess that tops out at 75 actual people or so. |
| 17:14.35 | Lunessa | The old 'soft' cap was 500, but they let you add people to infinity. |
| 17:14.49 | Lunessa | Now they're doing a hard cap of 600. And I can totally see why. |
| 17:14.54 | alestane | Maybe 100, which is still quite a lot. |
| 17:15.21 | alestane | http://notalwaysright.com/make-a-bullet-point-about-bertha/7542 |
| 17:15.27 | alestane | Is this a little extreme? |
| 17:15.40 | TC-Work | i always enjoys having 500 conversations going at once |
| 17:15.45 | TC-Work | enjooyed* |
| 17:15.48 | TC-Work | enjoyed* |
| 17:15.55 | TC-Work | ~lart Thunder_Child |
| 17:15.55 | purl | gives Thunder_Child a good seeing to |
| 17:15.58 | Lunessa | You can have 10 characters on a server. So if you do, and all 10 are in the same guild, you only need 60 alt-freaks to hit the cap. |
| 17:16.01 | Jamash | enjoryed |
| 17:17.42 | alestane | And my guilds have tended to be like that. |
| 17:17.46 | nevcairiel | I could go for a new beta build, anyone second that order? |
| 17:18.10 | Lunessa | The Gentleman from the EU has the floor. |
| 17:21.47 | TC-Work | nevcairiel: any particular reason? |
| 17:21.58 | nevcairiel | multiple, actually |
| 17:22.10 | nevcairiel | i'm hoping for alestanes UI fixes to go through |
| 17:22.22 | nevcairiel | and i'm hoping for a fix to the harrison quest series in uldum so i can continue =P |
| 17:26.25 | Lunessa | *nod* I'm stuck in the Chamber of the Moon on "I'll Do It By Hand". |
| 17:28.25 | foxlit | Hm, the King has 103M hp |
| 17:28.30 | foxlit | and is apparently Horde. |
| 17:30.20 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (~nuohep@89.222.156.36) |
| 17:34.19 | nevcairiel | i'm horde too |
| 17:34.33 | nevcairiel | apparently horde players cant use the portal to deepholme in stormwind |
| 17:34.50 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 17:37.10 | nevcairiel | i bet this is supposed to be a new version of the zombie event |
| 17:37.41 | foxlit | Nah |
| 17:37.46 | foxlit | The much simpler explanation is wargames |
| 17:37.47 | msoul | does affli requires a high a good gear in order to do more damage than say destro? |
| 17:38.06 | msoul | -high |
| 17:38.10 | foxlit | Presumably, to save coder time, they just have a buff that changes your faction while you're in there |
| 17:38.25 | foxlit | And now someone took it out of the wargame instance. |
| 17:38.25 | nevcairiel | heh |
| 17:38.36 | nevcairiel | there is such a thing as wargames? |
| 17:38.42 | nevcairiel | did i miss it? |
| 17:38.47 | foxlit | Guild vs guild battlegrounds? |
| 17:38.59 | foxlit | It's in the API, though I dunno if it's on the realms |
| 17:39.43 | ckknight | that's the rated battlegrounds |
| 17:40.14 | ckknight | maybe I'm wrong |
| 17:40.32 | nevcairiel | rated battlegrounds dont usually allow for inter-faction battles |
| 17:40.41 | nevcairiel | unless i somehow missed that fact in my pvp ignorance |
| 17:41.10 | ckknight | I'd like it if it did allow that |
| 17:41.27 | Fisker | slaps nevcairiel around a bit with a large trout |
| 17:41.49 | nevcairiel | Didnt arenas allow fighting each other already? |
| 17:41.54 | nevcairiel | What would they need this buff for? |
| 17:42.06 | Fisker | slaps ckknight around a bit with a large trout |
| 17:42.21 | ckknight | screw you, guy |
| 17:42.29 | foxlit | nevcairiel: why not? Having a buff that says "Horde" makes more thematic sense than having a buff that says "Green Flag" |
| 17:43.09 | nevcairiel | Its the same, i guess |
| 17:44.14 | nevcairiel | I wonder if i can talk to horde now.. |
| 17:51.44 | *** join/#wowuidev vjeux (52e9ed5b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.233.237.91) |
| 17:51.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~callahan@74-141-248-166.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 17:52.10 | *** join/#wowuidev daev (~bleh@pool-72-86-110-88.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 17:57.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Bibi (~Bibi@unaffiliated/bibi) |
| 18:00.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~callahan@74-141-248-166.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 18:03.54 | *** join/#wowuidev cogwheel (~cogwheel@WoWUIDev/WoWProgramming/morlando/cogwheel) |
| 18:06.39 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (~nuohep@89.222.156.36) |
| 18:10.27 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 18:10.27 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 18:12.53 | Ackis | http://cheezfailbooking.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/5381a054-6ad5-43ee-a4e1-6105073ca083.jpg |
| 18:12.53 | Fisker | so Ackis |
| 18:12.59 | Fisker | did xbox live break 3 million yet? |
| 18:13.07 | Ackis | yup |
| 18:13.44 | Fisker | no |
| 18:16.27 | Fisker | Ackis |
| 18:17.36 | Fisker | Ackis |
| 18:19.13 | amro | 3 million what? |
| 18:19.22 | Fisker | 3 million concurrent users |
| 18:19.48 | amro | losers* |
| 18:19.50 | Fisker | Steam was at 2,97 Million on sunday apparently :( |
| 18:19.56 | Fisker | in the xbox case, yeah |
| 18:20.00 | Fisker | not in the steam case though |
| 18:20.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~callahan@74-141-248-166.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 18:20.38 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (~nuohep@89.222.156.36) |
| 18:20.57 | amro | steam needs a new client, preferably one that doesn't suck |
| 18:21.09 | Fisker | the current one is fine |
| 18:21.19 | amro | far from fine |
| 18:21.19 | Fisker | if you think Steam sucks, go use impulse |
| 18:21.27 | amro | that's not relevant |
| 18:21.45 | amro | being covered in shit isn't okay if your neighbor is covered in even more shit |
| 18:21.46 | Fisker | it's relevant in Steam being superior to all other clients |
| 18:21.57 | amro | which doesn't make it good |
| 18:21.58 | Fisker | you're not covered in shit amro |
| 18:22.03 | Fisker | no but it is good |
| 18:22.09 | amro | how so? |
| 18:22.17 | Fisker | how isn't it? |
| 18:22.23 | amro | several ways |
| 18:22.26 | amro | unstable |
| 18:22.31 | Fisker | naw |
| 18:22.37 | amro | yes |
| 18:22.41 | Fisker | naw |
| 18:22.41 | Ackis | gfwl > steam |
| 18:22.45 | Fisker | naw |
| 18:22.46 | amro | ~murder Ackis |
| 18:22.46 | purl | ACTION shoots Ackis in his sleep |
| 18:22.50 | Fisker | yes |
| 18:22.56 | amro | gfwl is so BAD |
| 18:23.03 | amro | words alone cannot describe it |
| 18:23.13 | amro | and I wasn't talking about steam as a platform |
| 18:23.15 | Fisker | it's almost better than impulse |
| 18:23.17 | amro | I was talking about the client itself |
| 18:23.19 | Fisker | i know amro |
| 18:23.23 | Fisker | and the client is fine |
| 18:23.28 | amro | no, it isn't |
| 18:23.32 | amro | it crashes too much |
| 18:23.36 | amro | it hangs quite often |
| 18:23.37 | Fisker | the last stability issue i had was back before it was released |
| 18:23.39 | Fisker | nope |
| 18:23.44 | amro | and controlling downloads is hellish at best |
| 18:23.48 | Fisker | if it crashes, go get some working hardware |
| 18:23.52 | amro | my hardware is fine |
| 18:23.55 | amro | everything else works |
| 18:23.58 | Fisker | hanging is not an aspect of stability |
| 18:23.58 | amro | the games work |
| 18:24.09 | Fisker | everything else works does not mean your hardware is fine |
| 18:24.10 | amro | it's an aspect of a shitty single threaded design |
| 18:24.19 | Fisker | it isn't |
| 18:24.22 | amro | it is |
| 18:24.25 | Fisker | nope |
| 18:24.32 | amro | any single part of steam can lock up everything else |
| 18:24.42 | Fisker | it's still not singlethreaded |
| 18:24.52 | amro | at most it uses a thread for downloads |
| 18:24.57 | amro | the interface is all in the same thread |
| 18:25.11 | amro | then there's shitty restrictions |
| 18:25.22 | Fisker | what are those? |
| 18:25.23 | amro | such as only being able to be 'launching' a single game at a time |
| 18:25.27 | amro | and launching taking forever at times |
| 18:25.35 | Fisker | O_o |
| 18:25.57 | Fisker | don't you mean the same game |
| 18:26.06 | Fisker | i've run more than one steam title at the same time before |
| 18:26.11 | amro | I meant 'launching' |
| 18:26.12 | Ackis | gfwl > steam |
| 18:26.14 | Fisker | oh |
| 18:26.27 | Fisker | naw Ackis |
| 18:26.37 | amro | you can't launch one while the other is patching prelaunch or whatever, you have to use the other patching mechanism |
| 18:26.56 | Fisker | yeah that's right |
| 18:26.57 | amro | and you can't type in an address in the browser |
| 18:27.38 | amro | and the auto pause patching mechanism isn't cleanly integrated- if you tab out, you'll see "Update paused" but the context menu will still display "Pause download" |
| 18:27.44 | amro | and you have to pause it and restart it |
| 18:27.49 | Fisker | no |
| 18:27.49 | Ackis | gfwl > steam |
| 18:27.51 | Fisker | stop it |
| 18:27.52 | amro | yes |
| 18:27.53 | Fisker | stop it |
| 18:28.00 | Fisker | i don't want to hear any more rational arguments :( |
| 18:28.20 | Fisker | It's also annoying that the download pauses if you launch a game |
| 18:28.24 | amro | steam sucks, it's a fact. it's a sad fact because steam is also the best platform right now |
| 18:28.31 | Fisker | doesn't suck |
| 18:28.40 | Fisker | but yeah a lot of the launching part isn't that ideal i agree |
| 18:28.42 | amro | yes, it does. raise your damned standards |
| 18:29.20 | Ackis | as I've said GFWL > steam |
| 18:29.28 | amro | I'm disappointed with impulse. I wish they improve it, if only to force valve to improve steam |
| 18:29.36 | durcyn | just because steam has issues doesn't mean microsoft's offering isn't still a fetid turd |
| 18:29.40 | amro | gfwl isn't even directly comparable to steam |
| 18:29.49 | amro | you mean gfwl > steamworks, which still isn't true |
| 18:30.44 | amro | it doesn't even have crossplay with xbox, which is the only potentially redeeming feature |
| 18:30.59 | Ackis | GFWL takes advantage of the entire Xbox Live infrastructure but now also offers downloading games amro, not sure if you knew that |
| 18:31.04 | *** join/#wowuidev vithos (~vith@unaffiliated/vithos) |
| 18:31.05 | Ackis | yes it does |
| 18:31.10 | amro | no it does not |
| 18:31.18 | Ackis | yes, it does |
| 18:31.29 | Fisker | Even Microsoft thinks GFWL sucks |
| 18:31.46 | amro | Ackis: care to provide proof? |
| 18:31.58 | Fisker | and the guy who turned down Valve when they wanted to give Steam to Microsoft is probably packing fudge now |
| 18:32.01 | Ackis | Shadowrun |
| 18:32.05 | durcyn | Ackis: i'm going to break a halo disc in half and stab you with it |
| 18:32.56 | amro | Ackis: care to provide living proof? |
| 18:33.49 | TC-Work | amro: as opposed to dead proof? |
| 18:33.52 | Ackis | amro: Like I said, Shadowrun, it's a game that even has an achievement for being in a party with cross-console gamers, and there are a lot of games out there of it going on at a time |
| 18:34.13 | Ackis | amro: most of the games don't offer cross-play not because it's impossible but because console players are worse than PC gamers :P |
| 18:34.39 | Adys | Ackis: arent you beating your own point right here? |
| 18:34.42 | amro | Ackis: this is not the case with sf4 for instance |
| 18:34.52 | Fisker | actually with services like Xbox Live it's pretty hard if not borderline impossible |
| 18:34.59 | amro | besides, there's no reason not to offer an option to limit matchmaking to your platform |
| 18:35.24 | Ackis | Adys: no, he said it's impossible, I'm stating that it's not, it's been done before they just choose not to do it |
| 18:35.47 | amro | as far as I know, it's not the developer's call |
| 18:35.50 | Fisker | practically it is |
| 18:36.00 | amro | they need approval from MS |
| 18:36.11 | Adys | even if it's not impossible, it can be very hard, or lengthy, or not worth it |
| 18:36.13 | Fisker | they might need that too |
| 18:37.19 | Fisker | Portal 2 is going to do cross-platform with PC<->PS3 because Sony are a bunch of jerks |
| 18:37.20 | Fisker | ;3 |
| 18:37.22 | amro | also, did anyone even play shadowrun? |
| 18:37.24 | Fisker | aren't* |
| 18:37.26 | Fisker | well they are |
| 18:37.31 | amro | just not in this case |
| 18:37.32 | Fisker | but not in regards to their services |
| 18:38.31 | Adys | wtf is shadowrun |
| 18:38.36 | amro | a shitty game |
| 18:38.48 | Fisker | some kind of mmofps shit that was cancelled after 2 seconds of launch or something |
| 18:39.05 | amro | yep |
| 18:39.14 | Ackis | http://www.trueachievements.com/Shadowrun-xbox-360.htm <-- has 12k people tracked with the game |
| 18:39.26 | nicoli_s | amro:i heard some decent stuff about it |
| 18:39.27 | Ackis | Fisker: it's just your standard FPS |
| 18:39.49 | amro | I'm pretty sure MS just shut down whatever was providing XBL->GFWL connection and doesn't want to revive it |
| 18:40.04 | amro | otherwise they'd be shoving it down develepers' throats to promote GFWL over steam |
| 18:40.27 | Ackis | Dawn of War 2 uses GFWL and Steam at the same time quite successfully |
| 18:40.33 | Ackis | bit of a niche game however |
| 18:40.55 | amro | irrelevant to the technical factors at play |
| 18:41.32 | amro | besides, I'm sure you can hook up a mouse someway to a console |
| 18:41.39 | amro | make a custom board that translates mouse movements to analog stick |
| 18:41.45 | Ackis | and MS didn't shut down XBL -> GFWL conenction at all, I can go play Shadowrun with console players tonight if I wanted to |
| 18:41.54 | Ackis | yeah it's already been done amro |
| 18:42.14 | amro | so what's the reason for not having more crossplay? |
| 18:42.37 | Ackis | that console gamers are worse players than PC gamers :P |
| 18:42.48 | Fisker | Why did they implement it in an FPS then? |
| 18:43.09 | Ackis | they have some software stuff that screws your aim up when you're playing on PC, supposed to compensate |
| 18:43.10 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD_ (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 18:43.26 | Fisker | So what's the reason for not having more crossplay? |
| 18:43.30 | Ackis | basically when you move to aim, you become inaccurate |
| 18:43.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (~Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 18:44.21 | amro | it's not a reason |
| 18:44.27 | olafski | amro: if you hook up a mouse and use it to play online you'll get banned pretty quickly :) |
| 18:44.37 | amro | and that's completely silly |
| 18:44.47 | olafski | I quite like it |
| 18:45.03 | amro | they should at least have mouse-allowed servers |
| 18:45.08 | olafski | meh |
| 18:45.13 | amro | but then again |
| 18:45.17 | olafski | kinda takes away from the advantage of consoles |
| 18:45.23 | olafski | "everybody gets the same stuff" ;) |
| 18:45.23 | amro | what advantage |
| 18:45.37 | durcyn | breakfast of champions. |
| 18:45.42 | amro | no, the advantage to a console user is cheap hardware guaranteed to run the available games |
| 18:45.53 | Ackis | olafski: they can't detect it at all, the main reason why it's not done is because it's not easy to do |
| 18:45.55 | amro | and the advantage to the developer is consistent hardware and API |
| 18:46.21 | olafski | ackis: surely you can detect that the movement patterns of someone aiming with a mouse are quite different from those aiming with a controller |
| 18:46.27 | amro | there's no other advantage, with the exception of ease and availability of in-person multiplayer games |
| 18:46.37 | olafski | amro: I guess the advantages to console users differ from user to user then |
| 18:46.54 | amro | what you said doesn't make sense |
| 18:46.57 | olafski | I like being able to buy a game and not having to wonder whether my hardware can run it |
| 18:47.02 | olafski | the price doesn't really matter all that much |
| 18:47.15 | amro | I mentioned the compatibility point |
| 18:47.16 | olafski | just that if it says "xbox 360" I know I can run it |
| 18:47.21 | amro | and the price is the only reason consoles are popular |
| 18:47.22 | olafski | hence "everybody gets the same" |
| 18:47.29 | amro | if they cost as much as computers, nobody would use them |
| 18:47.31 | amro | ever |
| 18:47.32 | olafski | so say you :) |
| 18:47.36 | amro | so says logic |
| 18:47.49 | olafski | ahh.. I'm starting to remember something here |
| 18:47.50 | Maldivia | *grumble* |
| 18:47.51 | amro | quick poll, who here would buy a console for the price of a computer that can run the same games? |
| 18:47.52 | olafski | back to my websites now :) |
| 18:48.01 | olafski | amro: you're asking in an irc room about a pc game.. ;) |
| 18:48.12 | Arrowmaster | amro: i dont game on PC anymore |
| 18:48.19 | olafski | me neither |
| 18:48.32 | olafski | I will when cata comes, but if that were to somehow come out on a 360 I would play it on that |
| 18:48.36 | amro | so you're saying if ps3/x360 were in the $2000 range you'd buy them? |
| 18:48.45 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 18:48.49 | amro | exactly my point |
| 18:48.50 | olafski | same with diablo 3.. except I won't play that on pc |
| 18:48.54 | vjeux | ~seen Shadowed |
| 18:49.10 | purl | shadowed is currently on #wowuidev #wowace. Has said a total of 62 messages. Is idling for 12h 32m 32s, last said: 'nicoli_s: ping'. |
| 18:49.10 | olafski | I don't buy $2000 pcs either |
| 18:49.10 | Arrowmaster | if they were in that price range i wouldnt play any games |
| 18:49.10 | amro | that's THE main advantage to consoles |
| 18:49.15 | olafski | if my 360 were $800 I still would've bought it =) |
| 18:49.33 | Arrowmaster | PCs are currently a disadvantage due to the industry |
| 18:49.36 | amro | you and 12 others |
| 18:49.37 | cogwheel | if i were 13 i would've bought an xbox |
| 18:49.48 | TC-Work | i build $3,000 PC's however mine can do more than games |
| 18:49.55 | TC-Work | a lot more than games |
| 18:50.06 | amro | the point is, offloading the price to licensing fees is what kept consoles alive to this day |
| 18:50.08 | Ackis | what Arrowmaster said |
| 18:50.16 | amro | that's just a fact |
| 18:50.27 | amro | don't really see why we're discussing it |
| 18:50.39 | olafski | "hi guys this is what I think, it's a fact and if you don't believe it you suck" |
| 18:50.42 | Bruners | i build $3,000 PC's for irc and surfing |
| 18:50.49 | olafski | (watch him go with "you're putting words in my mouth" again) |
| 18:50.58 | amro | that's because you're doing it again |
| 18:51.00 | olafski | I use my laptop for irc and surfing :-D |
| 18:51.18 | amro | claiming you're doing something wrong sarcastically doesn't mean you're not doing something wrong |
| 18:52.28 | Ackis | amro: you were just arguing that it was impossible to play someone on the xbox when you're on the PC, and you continued to argue even after you were given proof that it is possible |
| 18:52.31 | amro | it should be pretty damn obvious that consoles would not have become a gaming commodity if they cost as much as PCs |
| 18:52.46 | amro | why spend $X on a machine to play games when you can spend exactly the same and get a machine that plays games AND does other things>? |
| 18:53.09 | Ackis | because not all Y games come out on a PC :( |
| 18:53.24 | amro | they don't because consoles are cheaper |
| 18:53.30 | amro | if they weren't, there'd be less games on them |
| 18:53.31 | amro | and more on PC |
| 18:53.34 | amro | because PC would be the bigger market |
| 18:53.36 | Ackis | because some Z games are better on a console (aka sports games IMO) |
| 18:53.37 | Arrowmaster | they dont because the industry has shunned the PC |
| 18:53.50 | Arrowmaster | fuck sports games |
| 18:53.56 | amro | that's plain wrong ackis, you can use a gamepad on a PC |
| 18:54.08 | Ackis | Arrowmaster: that's all I played on my genesis pretty much |
| 18:54.10 | amro | and you can hook up a PC to your TV in the living room |
| 18:54.27 | Ackis | amro: I've found the PC experience to be less than satisfactory when it comes to sports games |
| 18:54.37 | Ackis | so much so that I just stopped playing them |
| 18:54.45 | amro | due to having your computer on a desk |
| 18:54.52 | Ackis | compatibility issues, crashes, etc. |
| 18:55.00 | amro | that's just shitty development |
| 18:55.08 | amro | I don't see how compatibility is inherently different with the game genre |
| 18:55.25 | Bruners | console = one or two hardware types to focus on, pc = one billion different setups |
| 18:55.27 | Adys | Was the shield block stat removed? |
| 18:55.27 | Fisker | the crashes is because of all the porn Ackis downloaded |
| 18:55.58 | Fisker | btw |
| 18:56.00 | Ackis | Bruners: that's why games work better on consoles |
| 18:56.03 | amro | it's not like console games never have bugs |
| 18:56.08 | Fisker | i remember a nice thing before Microsoft became the cancer trying to kill pc gaming |
| 18:56.10 | amro | and when your console game has a bug, usually you're fucked |
| 18:56.21 | Fisker | if you bought a GFWL/XL game you would get it for PC and Xbox 360 |
| 18:56.23 | Ackis | you used to be amro, not so much anymore |
| 18:56.33 | amro | yes, that's true |
| 18:56.43 | amro | but what I'm talking about here is how consoles evolved |
| 18:56.48 | amro | and why they survived to this da |
| 18:56.49 | amro | y |
| 18:56.59 | Arrowmaster | no you still are, there are countless games with game breaking bugs on the 360 including achievements that are bugged and impossible to get but they havent been patched |
| 18:57.01 | amro | 20 years ago, things were different |
| 18:57.20 | Arrowmaster | its called greedy publishers |
| 18:57.30 | Ackis | Arrowmaster: it really depends on the developer (Look at Borderlands new DLC for example) but at least the option is there now to fix the bug |
| 18:57.39 | Ackis | 20 years ago there wasn't even the option |
| 18:57.52 | amro | exactly ackis |
| 18:58.03 | Bruners | pfft, pc, mac, atari, c64 |
| 18:58.04 | amro | but consoles survived anyway despite being inferior. why? because they were CHEAP |
| 18:58.05 | KarlKFI|work | console games and PC games are not mutually exclusive. Each have their strengths and weaknesses. They've lived together for a long time and they're nto about to occlude each other, so there's no point arguing which is "better". |
| 18:58.08 | amro | compared to a good PC |
| 18:58.09 | Arrowmaster | Ackis: i can name a few games that by the time the release date came, the development studio had already been disbanded by the publisher that owned it |
| 18:58.20 | amro | KarlKFI|work: the argument isn't which is better |
| 18:58.32 | Fisker | besides Microsoft hates putting out bandwitdh for stuff they give out for free |
| 18:58.40 | amro | I'm trying to point out the obvious fact that price was a MAJOR factor in console evolution to this day |
| 18:58.41 | Arrowmaster | Fisker: no thats sony |
| 18:58.49 | Ackis | consoles survived because there were different games back then on the console vs the PC |
| 18:58.52 | Fisker | naw Arrowmaster |
| 18:59.00 | Arrowmaster | sony fucking charges the developers/publishers for the bandwidth used for patches |
| 18:59.16 | Ackis | Microsoft charges for updates as well |
| 18:59.28 | amro | Ackis: again, there were different games because CONSOLES WERE CHEAP. if they were expensive and very niche, fewer developers would have been attracted, fewer games would have been made, etc etc |
| 18:59.33 | Fisker | and you can barely make out content updates for free |
| 18:59.37 | KarlKFI|work | ignores the incoherent ramblings that don't resemble anything like a proper argument. |
| 18:59.38 | Fisker | Valve got a single exception |
| 18:59.46 | Fisker | but other than that, fuck you |
| 19:00.15 | amro | you're confusing the later stages of console history with the beginning |
| 19:00.19 | Ackis | amro: I had a PC growing up, but never had a console til the 90s because they were too expensive for a gaming machine |
| 19:00.31 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 19:00.32 | amro | Ackis: you had a PC, most people were not that fortunate |
| 19:00.44 | Arrowmaster | i never had a console until the original Xbox |
| 19:00.59 | Fisker | lols Ackis |
| 19:01.15 | Ackis | I got a Genesis in the 90s some time, had my PC since as long as I can remember (Go go Tandy 1000) |
| 19:01.16 | Fisker | real computers were way more expensive than conles |
| 19:01.18 | Fisker | consoles |
| 19:01.21 | olafski | I had a NES, DC and then a 360.. bought about 5 games total for the former 2 |
| 19:01.21 | Arrowmaster | gtg |
| 19:01.24 | amro | in 1986, buying a NES (and getting SMB bundled) was cheaper than buying a PC that could play good games, especially because you'd have to upgrade your PC sooner |
| 19:01.53 | olafski | I have had my 360 for about 2 years, bought about 55-60 games.. definitely not doing it because it's cheaper, I could've bought a pretty good pc for that price |
| 19:01.56 | amro | my dad had to sell *his car* to afford a good PC, consoles back then were a tiny fraction of that |
| 19:02.16 | amro | stop talking about consoles now, ugh |
| 19:02.46 | Ackis | the PC wasn't purchased as a "gaming device", it was purchased as a fancy typewriter :P |
| 19:02.49 | amro | and just because the price factor doesn't affect you personally doesn't mean it's not a factor for everyone else around the world |
| 19:03.40 | amro | Ackis: yeah, because few people plunked down that much money on computers unless they could use them to MAKE money |
| 19:04.08 | amro | console gaming was a lot more accessibly principally because of the price. if consoles cost as much as PCs, arcades would still be the primary platform for games |
| 19:04.15 | Ackis | you're trying to compare apples with oranges, and getting egg on your face |
| 19:04.31 | Ackis | anyways I have work to do :P |
| 19:05.22 | Shirik | where did the egg come from? |
| 19:05.24 | Shirik | that's scary |
| 19:05.30 | amro | I'm pointing out that the NES would not have sold more than 60 million machines if it was expensive |
| 19:05.47 | amro | therefore, developers would have been less interested in it and other consoles |
| 19:06.05 | Fisker | hey Shirik |
| 19:06.08 | amro | I don't see how you can fail to understand that |
| 19:06.41 | Shirik | the thing about consoles I don't get is why they aren't even cheaper |
| 19:06.46 | Shirik | like the xbox could sell for $100 |
| 19:07.08 | Fisker | hey Shirik |
| 19:07.19 | amro | do you at least see that price is a major factor in consoles' success past the 80s? |
| 19:07.19 | Fisker | you are right |
| 19:07.47 | Shirik | I think it's a factor in why I won't buy a PS3, for example |
| 19:07.59 | Shirik | the thing is these companies get money for giving out the right to make games |
| 19:08.19 | amro | which is why the console itself is cheaper than its hardware |
| 19:08.21 | Shirik | that's pure profit right there |
| 19:08.23 | Shirik | exactly |
| 19:08.26 | Shirik | well it should be |
| 19:08.28 | Shirik | I don't think it is |
| 19:08.31 | amro | it is |
| 19:08.43 | amro | maybe not years after the release and they streamline the process |
| 19:08.50 | amro | but at release, it's definitely far cheaper than the cost of the hardware |
| 19:10.58 | *** join/#wowuidev the-golem (~Darrin@c-98-255-201-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 19:13.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Silker (ponies@5ac26044.bb.sky.com) |
| 19:21.37 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (~bluspacec@60-234-165-167.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) |
| 19:34.26 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 19:36.54 | cog|work | Kraps: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/801781091#6 |
| 19:37.54 | amro | cog|work: cut off at "je ne" |
| 19:38.03 | cog|work | yeah |
| 19:38.08 | cog|work | that was the point >< |
| 19:38.36 | amro | I mean, you should cut off there |
| 19:38.39 | amro | without "pas" |
| 19:38.42 | cog|work | ah |
| 19:38.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Xevion (~Xevion@dslb-094-220-236-026.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:39.27 | amro | I think faucheur is hilarious though |
| 19:39.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (~Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 19:39.34 | amro | I watched a sc2cast in french, made my day |
| 19:39.45 | amro | Adys: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/fr/game/race/terran/ |
| 19:39.47 | cog|work | ha @ faucheur |
| 19:39.51 | *** join/#wowuidev seno (seno@chello213047041233.2.sc-graz.chello.at) |
| 19:41.03 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (~airtonix@unaffiliated/airtonix) |
| 19:41.03 | seno | hi, just uploaded an addon - but selected a wrong subsection :p any mods here? |
| 19:41.11 | cog|work | Shirik: ^ |
| 19:41.29 | amro | "Marine candidates who remain unmanageable after neural resocialization are sent to be trained as Reapers. These troops are chemically altered to heighten their aggression even further" |
| 19:41.32 | amro | no wonder reapers are dicks |
| 19:42.30 | mikma | so, i am coding this addon that will pop up your messages with certain events. anyone can think of any good events i need to add? (zoning in town, zoning in instance, open merchant...) ? |
| 19:43.12 | A-KO | http://www.mnn.com/lifestyle/pets-animals/stories/bizarre-sea-slug-is-half-plant-half-animal-0 < Vegans everywhere are now crying |
| 19:43.14 | mikma | currently i have zoning town, zoning instance, zoning pvp, open merchant, login ... |
| 19:43.18 | amro | which messages? |
| 19:43.32 | mikma | whatever you write in them |
| 19:43.36 | amro | rofl A-KO |
| 19:43.42 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 19:44.12 | amro | mikma: I don't understand, so I zone in a town and what pops up? |
| 19:44.28 | amro | like a reminder? |
| 19:44.28 | Fisker | http://www.anandtech.com/show/3965/intels-3rd-generation-x25m-ssd-specs-revealed <-i came |
| 19:44.32 | mikma | amro: message "you have a tiny penis" |
| 19:44.42 | amro | mikma: then add "dropping your pants" |
| 19:44.56 | mikma | amro: yes, whatever you decide to write in the window that you want to popup |
| 19:45.16 | amro | ah, cool |
| 19:45.18 | seno | any wowi mods here? |
| 19:45.22 | amro | add start casting hearth/TP |
| 19:45.33 | amro | and when you pop up a flight master thingy |
| 19:45.45 | amro | and when you receive a summon |
| 19:46.58 | bluspacecow | @seno they might be afk ... pop a PM to either Caireen or one of the other admins and they'll get onto it |
| 19:47.21 | seno | thx dude |
| 19:47.21 | mikma | casting a spell is a no, cause that requires CLEU -fuck :P |
| 19:47.36 | amro | what's a cleu-fuck? |
| 19:47.47 | bluspacecow | they usually pretty fast on checking their PMs .. also try Seerah |
| 19:47.51 | mikma | combat_log_event_unfiltered |
| 19:48.13 | bluspacecow | seno also check the "whos on first thread" in the wowin forums |
| 19:48.35 | amro | is that an old joke thread? |
| 19:48.44 | seno | thx again |
| 19:48.48 | mikma | oh yeah, ready-check :P |
| 19:50.07 | bluspacecow | http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30351 , for seno |
| 19:51.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Eluna (~Eluna@85.196.121.142) |
| 19:53.34 | Adys | amro: quit not reading gtalk |
| 19:54.56 | NightHawkTheSane | http://www.overheardinnewyork.com/archives/023140.html |
| 19:57.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Silker (~ponies@5e07476b.bb.sky.com) |
| 19:58.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@adsl-226-66-29.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 19:58.57 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 20:01.52 | bluspacecow | \o Seerah |
| 20:02.02 | Seerah | o/ blu |
| 20:02.04 | bluspacecow | seno thar needs your tender loving care :) |
| 20:02.12 | Seerah | ? |
| 20:02.25 | bluspacecow | "seno: hi, just uploaded an addon - but selected a wrong subsection :p any mods here?" |
| 20:03.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Xyphoid (~xyph@unaffiliated/xyphoid) |
| 20:03.33 | Seerah | if it was in the wrong section, it's been fixed now :) (assuming seno == senomar) |
| 20:05.17 | TC-Work | Seerah: you are going to make the other mods look bad if you keep that up |
| 20:05.31 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 20:05.36 | Seerah | sorry to have implied that I moved it >< |
| 20:05.45 | Seerah | *it was already fixed |
| 20:06.07 | Seerah | maybe should have left out the word "now"?... (damn headaches) |
| 20:06.16 | TC-Work | ~comfort Seerah |
| 20:06.16 | purl | There, there, Seerah. It's OK. I'm here for you. |
| 20:06.23 | Seerah | :) |
| 20:09.01 | *** join/#wowuidev rikai (~rikai@cpe-184-153-144-194.maine.res.rr.com) |
| 20:09.10 | *** join/#wowuidev rikai (~rikai@unaffiliated/rikai) |
| 20:09.57 | seno | thank you guys! |
| 20:10.34 | bluspacecow | yeah i gotta go ... got lots of stuffs to do |
| 20:23.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Mirrormn (4b5b3d29@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.91.61.41) |
| 20:24.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (~Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 20:24.12 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 20:25.48 | *** join/#wowuidev the-golem (~Darrin@c-98-255-201-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 20:28.30 | *** part/#wowuidev Xevion (~Xevion@dslb-094-220-236-026.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:28.59 | zenzelezz | http://s-ak.buzzfed.com/static/imagebuzz/web04/2010/9/2/2/this-is-one-of-the-better-reactions-in-the-actual-9513-1283407888-11.jpg (Shirik will like this) |
| 20:29.17 | Kandoko | huh they changed button:IsEnabled() is returning 1 or nil I guess it matches the slider:IsEnabled now |
| 20:30.34 | Adys | !api button:isenabled |
| 20:30.34 | lua_bot | Button:IsEnabled: Returns whether user interaction with the button is allowed (http://wowprogramming.com/docs/widgets/Button/IsEnabled) |
| 20:30.46 | Adys | it.. always was like that? |
| 20:31.14 | Mirrormn | Texture:SetTexture no longer returns nil if you pass it a nonexistant file path =/ |
| 20:32.18 | Adys | what does it do? |
| 20:32.19 | Adys | errors? |
| 20:32.24 | Mirrormn | returns 1 |
| 20:32.31 | Mirrormn | same as if you give it a valid path |
| 20:32.32 | Adys | that sounds like a bug |
| 20:32.39 | Mirrormn | indeed it does |
| 20:32.52 | Maldivia | could be a side effect of the new texture unload mechanism behind the scene ? |
| 20:33.30 | Mirrormn | there's a new texture unload mechanism? |
| 20:33.33 | Iriel | I'm asking about the texture thing, to see if it's intentional or acidental or what |
| 20:33.43 | Iriel | Mirrormn: Yes, the game can unload textures if they're not being used |
| 20:33.54 | Iriel | Mirrormn: (the backing store texture image, not the Lua object) |
| 20:34.40 | Mirrormn | hrm, I suppose that's why the world map always seems to load piecemeal whenever I open it on beta |
| 20:34.42 | Adys | Iriel, while you're at it, ask if they ever intend to fix GetItemInfo when the game calls it a lot |
| 20:35.04 | Adys | Mirrormn: no, that's because of the new patch system |
| 20:35.08 | Maldivia | thinking that it could be lazy loading, so loading the texture is just queued, and SetTexture just returning fast ? |
| 20:35.17 | Iriel | I'm told that they dont think SetTexture changed, are you sure it's not working as expected? |
| 20:35.26 | Iriel | I.e. are you testing with normal files (NOT with MPQ contents) ? |
| 20:35.54 | Iriel | Adys: what is wrong with it? |
| 20:36.10 | Maldivia | hangs the client |
| 20:36.15 | Mirrormn | I tested it with with a MPQ-contained texture - it loaded correctly, displayed on-screen, and returned 1 |
| 20:36.24 | Adys | for i=1,1000 do GetItemInfo("item:"..i) end |
| 20:36.27 | Adys | will crash the client |
| 20:36.37 | Mirrormn | then I tested it with a clearly bogus path string, the texture didn't load, SetTexture still returned 1 |
| 20:36.44 | Iriel | That doesn't seem like a very "normal" use, but i'll report it anyway. |
| 20:36.47 | Mirrormn | I can't recall which order I did the two in, though |
| 20:36.50 | Adys | Iriel: I use it in findit |
| 20:36.57 | Adys | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info14774-FindIt.html |
| 20:37.00 | Maldivia | Iriel: it's common, to search for loaded items by name |
| 20:37.23 | Adys | there's no real concept of loaded items now |
| 20:37.42 | Maldivia | that's true, since most are in the client :P |
| 20:37.47 | Mirrormn | I use it to search for a correct path for PowerAuras' texture files |
| 20:37.50 | Adys | it loads items from the .db2 and .adb files one by one when doing GetIteminfo |
| 20:38.11 | Adys | which means the first GII will always return nil |
| 20:38.12 | Iriel | Adys: reported |
| 20:38.14 | Adys | so annoying |
| 20:38.16 | Adys | thanks Iriel |
| 20:38.36 | Iriel | THe crash that is |
| 20:38.45 | Adys | well its actually a hang |
| 20:38.50 | Adys | client freezes and wont respond |
| 20:39.51 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 20:39.56 | Iriel | I'm being asked how much pain and suffering the broken return on SetTexture will cause (i.e. what are the addons that actually use that for a legitimate purpose) ? |
| 20:40.49 | Kandoko | Adys wowprogramming I think has the beta 4.0 behavior. On live its 1 or 0 |
| 20:41.09 | zenzelezz | Iriel: don't suppose you can ask why it changed in the first place? I don't use it, but I'm all curious now |
| 20:41.27 | Adys | zenzelezz: from what iriel said it wasnt even intended |
| 20:41.27 | Maldivia | Kandoko: are you sure? |
| 20:41.35 | Adys | Kandoko: wowprogramming definitely doesn't have beta behaviour, but it might have an error |
| 20:42.03 | Iriel | zenzelezz: their guess matched the "unloading" guess, I suspect for a formal answer they'd have to chase down the right developer |
| 20:42.08 | Mirrormn | well, the only use I can really think for it is conditionally using textures from a source which you do not have full control of |
| 20:42.11 | Kandoko | Well, I can log back into live and check again. Was fixing a buggy button hide which is why I noticed, |
| 20:42.16 | Maldivia | it doens't make sens for IsEnabled to return 0, since that's evaluates to boolean-true in lua |
| 20:42.41 | Adys | (rawr lua) |
| 20:42.42 | Kandoko | Remember a lot of wow apis did do that silly thing thou. Blizz has been fixing it thou |
| 20:43.14 | Adys | Iriel: btw, you have a cute list of 3.x=>4.x changes post up somewhere? |
| 20:43.33 | Mirrormn | for textures you make and include yourself, you can just assume the textures will be where you put them; for textures that are provided by an addon that is specifically designed to share media to other addons, it can provide functions to handle its own media so it never loses a path |
| 20:43.51 | Iriel | there's the one on the cata beta UI forum, (and the thread that goes with it), i've been slacking/busy so haven't kept it as fresh as I could. |
| 20:44.32 | Iriel | If you do find a function that returns 1 / 0 for true false (and isn't returning 1/ 0 /nil for 3 different values, do let me know) |
| 20:45.08 | Adys | that reminds me |
| 20:45.17 | Adys | have anims been fixed in 4.x? |
| 20:45.27 | Adys | i remember shefki's timer lib being broken because of it |
| 20:52.08 | Iriel | Re: GetItemInfo -- the way that works has changed a lot in 4.0, old "tricks" probably wont work - there are some known issues, try not to abuse it too much if you value your client's stability. |
| 20:52.35 | zenzelezz | intriguing |
| 20:53.19 | Maldivia | so basically, all item cache/search tools, that relies on GetItemInfo are dead, unless they cache everything in saved vars? |
| 20:53.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Mihau (~asmith@69.73.16.202) |
| 20:53.45 | Iriel | They need to be updated |
| 20:54.13 | Fisker | i disagree |
| 20:54.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (~dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 20:54.48 | Kandoko | Iriel: yep just tested on live via a test macro so no addons mucking about. Just open the Auction house /run AuctionFrameCloseButton:Disable();print( AuctionFrameCloseButton:IsEnabled());AuctionFrameCloseButton:Enable();print( AuctionFrameCloseButton:IsEnabled()) |
| 20:55.05 | Maldivia | Iriel: well, it basically means you have to _slowly_ iterate all items in the background, to feed a table (and perhaps persist it), to enable the search capabilities we have today |
| 20:56.40 | Fisker | i can rdp |
| 20:56.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Avis_ (~Avis@24-181-71-177.dhcp.nwnn.ga.charter.com) |
| 20:57.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@68.64.47.56) |
| 20:59.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Natch (~natch@c-35cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 21:00.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan| (~pancake@cpe-024-163-016-179.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 21:02.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Cairenn (~Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 21:02.32 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 21:02.32 | Iriel | Ok, so GetItemInfo -- The new patcher system also changed how that works, such that there's no "local cache only" guarantee on GetItemInfo - it might make a server side call (which would be asynchronous). They will be addressing some issues with it (and making it more useful to the rest of us as a side effect) in a future patch. |
| 21:03.27 | Maldivia | ok, sounds promising :) |
| 21:03.47 | Maldivia | thanks for asking |
| 21:03.52 | Kandoko | Iriel: I will humbly beg for auction IDs as always |
| 21:04.24 | Kandoko | and have it in the mail invoice... I can dream can't I |
| 21:04.43 | tem | haha |
| 21:04.58 | tem | we've been begging for auction ids for nearly 6 years now, haven't we? |
| 21:05.46 | Kandoko | Yeah but they exposed it for the remote AH (so I was told) so figured Id ask/beg/grovel/curtsy |
| 21:06.11 | amro | you curtsy before you beg |
| 21:06.12 | tem | oh hmm |
| 21:06.14 | amro | otherwise it's just weird |
| 21:06.43 | Fisker | must be a new addition then Kandoko |
| 21:07.38 | Kandoko | oh, Fisker I havnt used the app myself so its just what I was told |
| 21:07.45 | durcyn | the auction house is so badly designed anyway, just scrap it and blatantly copy EVE's system please |
| 21:08.00 | Fisker | it isn't exposed to the app anyway Kandoko |
| 21:08.01 | A-KO | lol |
| 21:08.02 | A-KO | screw that |
| 21:08.12 | A-KO | Eve is like FFXI and FFXIV |
| 21:08.21 | foxlit | http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Technology/Pix/pictures/2010/10/5/1286277620429/mobilelawsuits.png |
| 21:08.23 | durcyn | A-KO: how much nicer would it be to have sell orders, seriously |
| 21:08.29 | A-KO | Massively Menu Driven Multiplayer RPG |
| 21:08.30 | Fisker | But i believe Antiarc said he was using the timeleft on auctions to determine whether or not an auction was new |
| 21:08.33 | foxlit | I can't help but feel that someone has terrible graph-drawing skills |
| 21:08.35 | durcyn | A-KO: I don't mean the UI. |
| 21:09.06 | Antiarc | I was using "have I seen this action before" with the knowledge that I'm scanning auctions every 90 sec or so |
| 21:09.18 | Antiarc | So if I didn't see an auction ID in the previous pass, I'd know it was new in this pass. |
| 21:09.26 | nicoli_s | for anyone who doesnt have left 4 dead yet, you can get it on steam for < 7 bucks |
| 21:09.37 | Fisker | oh so they do have ID's? |
| 21:09.41 | Fisker | or are they just ones you make up? |
| 21:09.55 | Mirrormn | I like how they crossed the google/oracle lawsuit with another line just so the picture would look more complicated |
| 21:10.27 | Fisker | Nokia seems to be the finnish answer to oracle in norway |
| 21:10.37 | *** join/#wowuidev ZorbaBeta (tocohl@maximilian.pavlovian.net) |
| 21:11.04 | Lunessa | http://failblog.org/2010/10/05/epic-fail-photos-classic-staple-fail/ |
| 21:11.21 | jnwhiteh | hrm |
| 21:11.26 | Fisker | we became part of the "leaders of the free world" btw Antiarc |
| 21:11.27 | jnwhiteh | who wants to help pick the new icon for Clique? |
| 21:11.32 | Fisker | we can buy apps on the market \o/ |
| 21:11.38 | Antiarc | Fisker: yeah, there is a UID per auction |
| 21:11.42 | Antiarc | leaders what |
| 21:11.44 | Fisker | something french jnwhiteh |
| 21:11.45 | Maldivia | uhh, icon selection |
| 21:11.50 | Maldivia | jnwhiteh: just pick, or create? |
| 21:12.12 | Fisker | It's a new thing i'm doing |
| 21:12.14 | jnwhiteh | I want a mouse with a wizard hat on =) |
| 21:12.15 | Lunessa | I'll help. |
| 21:12.25 | olafski | and a robe? |
| 21:12.36 | jnwhiteh | no need for a robe |
| 21:12.36 | Fisker | mostly passive agressive hate towards EA/Dice |
| 21:12.41 | jnwhiteh | and i'll pay for the vector art if need by |
| 21:12.41 | jnwhiteh | be |
| 21:12.45 | jnwhiteh | need one for the portrait |
| 21:12.48 | jnwhiteh | and one for the tab |
| 21:12.51 | jnwhiteh | so one circle, one square |
| 21:12.57 | Maldivia | jnwhiteh: http://www.the-cats-meow.com/images/halloween/wizard-mouse.gif <-- there you go :) |
| 21:13.10 | Fisker | Because it's bad for EA/Dice to use Taliban, but hey why not call it Leaders of the free world vs. the bad guys |
| 21:13.17 | jnwhiteh | Maldivia: need something that's under a license I can use :P |
| 21:13.23 | Fisker | or "opposing force" as it's called |
| 21:13.26 | Maldivia | hehe |
| 21:13.58 | jnwhiteh | vector preferred |
| 21:14.03 | Ackis | jnwhiteh: http://media.curse.com/Curse.Projects.CategoryIcons/60-64.gif that's an icon my fiancee did for Curse :P |
| 21:14.11 | jnwhiteh | hehe |
| 21:14.37 | jnwhiteh | http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/8641269/2/istockphoto_8641269-happy-cartoon-mouse.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-illustration-8641269-happy-cartoon-mouse.php&usg=__Cu_WRQK9JpZlCir0Sx-GR5HKrVU=&h=380&w=380&sz=62&hl=en&start=78&zoom=1&tbnid=gikT1xg9l9kfGM:&tbnh=130&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dvector%2Bmouse%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1005%26bih%3D879%26 |
| 21:14.37 | jnwhiteh | gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=303&vpy=293&dur=47&hovh=225&hovw=225&tx=150&ty=137&ei=N5WrTK_KHoaL4Aayn6niCA&oei=XJSrTIHwFdOg4QaOxsm3Bw&esq=10&page=4&ndsp=27&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:78 looks more like a rat to me |
| 21:14.40 | jnwhiteh | oh shit. |
| 21:14.41 | jnwhiteh | lol |
| 21:14.43 | Ackis | It's their roleplaying icon |
| 21:14.46 | Ackis | fail link is fail |
| 21:14.51 | jnwhiteh | http://goo.gl/5hP4 |
| 21:15.07 | foxlit | Link's fine |
| 21:15.09 | Fisker | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:15.15 | foxlit | Don't even need the extra chunk |
| 21:15.29 | jnwhiteh | i want |
| 21:15.30 | jnwhiteh | http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://jessetalks.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/mouse.png%3Fw%3D509%26h%3D427&imgrefurl=http://jessetalks.wordpress.com/2009/10/02/mouse-clipart-vector/&usg=__rg-9q9ZB5H74n12wS7jPE9iz-Gs=&h=427&w=509&sz=48&hl=en&start=284&zoom=1&tbnid=dbvf_tqxl1jmrM:&tbnh=134&tbnw=160&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dvector%2Bmouse%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1005%26bih%3D879%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:10,8785&itbs=1&iact |
| 21:15.31 | jnwhiteh | =rc&dur=439&ei=bZWrTLb_DpWQ4AaospiXCA&oei=XJSrTIHwFdOg4QaOxsm3Bw&esq=6&page=12&ndsp=25&ved=1t:429,r:18,s:284&tx=61&ty=97&biw=1005&bih=879 |
| 21:15.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (~chatzilla@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 21:15.33 | jnwhiteh | ffs. |
| 21:15.38 | jnwhiteh | http://jessetalks.wordpress.com/2009/10/02/mouse-clipart-vector/ |
| 21:15.40 | jnwhiteh | he's fucking adorable. |
| 21:15.46 | Fisker | some norwegian or swedish newspaper wouldn't post a satirical image of the guy who made the mohammed with a bomb as a turban image |
| 21:15.55 | Maldivia | jnwhiteh: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandreli/4906885457/ |
| 21:15.59 | Antiarc | jnwhiteh: I have two amazing artists in my guild that you might be able to arrange something with |
| 21:16.11 | Fisker | Freedom of speech - Only used when insinuating entire religions are comprised of terrorists |
| 21:16.28 | jnwhiteh | hrm, I can use the last one I linked |
| 21:16.32 | jnwhiteh | anyone else think its adorable? |
| 21:16.37 | Antiarc | yes :D |
| 21:16.50 | jnwhiteh | but I'd need to wizard hat it. |
| 21:16.53 | TC-Work | no |
| 21:16.57 | jnwhiteh | maybe I can contract this guy to make it for me. |
| 21:19.00 | nicoli_s | thats awesome Maldivia |
| 21:19.55 | Mirrormn | jnwhiteh: the last one you linked, the one with *hooves*? |
| 21:20.00 | Mirrormn | it's a freakish abomination |
| 21:20.10 | jnwhiteh | uhh |
| 21:20.14 | jnwhiteh | the last one i linked has no hooves. |
| 21:20.20 | A-KO | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuV-lh967gM |
| 21:20.24 | Mirrormn | oh, maldivia linked that |
| 21:20.41 | Mirrormn | the last one you linked is fine ^_^ |
| 21:20.57 | Antiarc | http://imgur.com/zKkDM.jpg |
| 21:20.57 | nicoli_s | oh weird, didnt even notice the hooves |
| 21:21.09 | jnwhiteh | can anyone png -> tga one for me quick? |
| 21:21.11 | Mirrormn | it's some kind of mouse/unicorn/fatness hybrid |
| 21:21.21 | Antiarc | One of my guildmates whipped that together in like a half hour for a comedy post in our guild forums :) |
| 21:21.41 | Antiarc | jnwhiteh: For use in WoW? Just use a 24-bit png and png2blp :) |
| 21:21.51 | Antiarc | Much easier than futzing with tgas and alpha channels |
| 21:22.12 | jnwhiteh | okay |
| 21:22.14 | jnwhiteh | dont' have png2blp |
| 21:22.16 | jnwhiteh | have it on-hand? |
| 21:22.31 | Antiarc | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info6127-BLP2PNG.html |
| 21:22.32 | Maldivia | jnwhiteh: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandreli/sets/72157622369744699/ <-- a lot of mice there, most seem to be under CC reuse license |
| 21:22.32 | Lunessa | That artist has several interesting mice/mouse images http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandreli/sets/72157622369744699/detail/ but my Italian isn't good enough to figure out if she owns them or copied them from the game MouseHunt. |
| 21:22.35 | Antiarc | sorry, blp2png :) |
| 21:22.39 | Antiarc | But it goes both ways |
| 21:22.53 | jnwhiteh | uyhh |
| 21:22.53 | jnwhiteh | windows |
| 21:22.56 | jnwhiteh | what the fuck do you think this is? |
| 21:23.08 | Antiarc | http://code.google.com/p/jwow-kit/source/browse/trunk/src/com/synaptik/jwow/BLP2PNG.java?r=2 |
| 21:23.30 | jnwhiteh | which goes blp -> png |
| 21:23.33 | jnwhiteh | i ahev 10,000 of those. |
| 21:23.41 | Mirrormn | "derpicorn mouse" |
| 21:23.42 | Antiarc | there's source for the blp2png binary in C++ somewhere |
| 21:23.49 | jnwhiteh | oh screw it |
| 21:23.51 | jnwhiteh | i'll gimp |
| 21:23.52 | jnwhiteh | grr |
| 21:24.19 | Antiarc | won't it run in wine? |
| 21:24.24 | foxlit | jnwhiteh: no mac? |
| 21:24.32 | jnwhiteh | i'm on a mac, yes. |
| 21:24.40 | foxlit | Preview save as TGA |
| 21:24.44 | foxlit | *saves |
| 21:24.51 | jnwhiteh | does it? |
| 21:24.59 | foxlit | Yes, it does. You should use it :) |
| 21:25.01 | jnwhiteh | helpful, thank you! |
| 21:27.05 | jnwhiteh | hrm, so that image doesn't look as nice as I would have liked =/ |
| 21:27.10 | jnwhiteh | maybe I need a smaller v ersion of it |
| 21:29.16 | Kraps | http://us.blizzard.com/blizzcon/events/schedule.xml |
| 21:29.51 | Kraps | wont break your eyes http://us.blizzard.com/blizzcon/_images/schedule-print-en-US.jpg |
| 21:30.00 | Cairenn | they still haven't said who is going to be playing the concert though, boo. |
| 21:30.38 | Avis_ | I dont like the new SecureAuraHeader system =( |
| 21:31.16 | jnwhiteh | so submit patches to it |
| 21:31.19 | jnwhiteh | but what don't you like about it? |
| 21:31.23 | A-KO | holy shit |
| 21:31.33 | Iriel | Cairenn: I wonder if they'll have to hastily re-issue it the day of the event again |
| 21:31.33 | A-KO | Antoine Dodson bought a house with his share of the $ on that autotune shit |
| 21:31.35 | A-KO | that's insane |
| 21:32.04 | Iriel | Actually,t he closing ceremony length is pretty short |
| 21:32.35 | Iriel | An hour shorter than last year |
| 21:32.39 | Iriel | (5:30 - 8:30 last year) |
| 21:33.03 | jnwhiteh | cute? |
| 21:33.04 | jnwhiteh | http://images.gammatester.com/pics/b4b277960197a207438892d61977d952.png |
| 21:33.09 | Avis_ | mostly that it makes something simple a lot more complicated lol |
| 21:33.25 | jnwhiteh | Avis_: its not simple |
| 21:33.26 | jnwhiteh | it is complicated |
| 21:33.38 | jnwhiteh | everything is simple if you don't want to be able to click and do things |
| 21:33.42 | jnwhiteh | anything else requires a template |
| 21:33.47 | Avis_ | thats what I mean |
| 21:33.51 | Kraps | jnwhiteh: that looks nice |
| 21:33.57 | jnwhiteh | well that's not quite the template's fault |
| 21:34.02 | jnwhiteh | you could't do it at all without the template :P |
| 21:34.34 | Avis_ | need to make two modules now for clickable auras and non clickable auras with more display options |
| 21:34.44 | jnwhiteh | sounds like a nightmare |
| 21:34.50 | jnwhiteh | welcome to raid frames in 2.x |
| 21:34.52 | jnwhiteh | =) |
| 21:34.58 | Avis_ | lol |
| 21:35.01 | foxlit | you kids have it easy |
| 21:35.09 | jnwhiteh | indeed |
| 21:35.12 | jnwhiteh | uphill both ways, |
| 21:35.22 | Avis_ | in the snow to boot |
| 21:39.31 | Kraps | i'll buy the blizzcon stream as soon as i can get unlazy enough to get my credit card |
| 21:40.40 | jnwhiteh | So who wants to try out the new Clique? |
| 21:40.44 | jnwhiteh | :P |
| 21:42.43 | Hjalte | jnwhiteh: Anything had to change for cataclysm? |
| 21:43.10 | jnwhiteh | quite a bit, actually |
| 21:43.21 | jnwhiteh | raid frames that use the group header won't work if those frames are created in combat |
| 21:43.25 | jnwhiteh | until they move to the new system |
| 21:43.29 | jnwhiteh | which is.. a tad cumbersome |
| 21:43.30 | jnwhiteh | but works. |
| 21:52.01 | Kraps | what do you guys think about the guild member cap? |
| 21:52.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen (~Sixen@173-25-23-86.client.mchsi.com) |
| 21:52.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Diao (vince@adsl-99-169-82-142.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:53.17 | Stanzilla | how common are 600+ guilds? |
| 21:53.28 | A-KO | not very |
| 21:53.29 | A-KO | lol |
| 21:53.51 | cbreak | my guild has I think 300 or 400 accounts |
| 21:54.01 | cbreak | but most of those have stopped playing for years |
| 21:55.01 | Iriel | IS the limit by account or character |
| 21:55.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Borgleader (~borgleade@modemcable253.146-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 21:55.59 | Kraps | pretty sure its character |
| 21:56.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Silker (~ponies@5e0ceba9.bb.sky.com) |
| 22:09.51 | jnwhiteh | Clique revamped for Cataclysm: http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info18181-Cliquerevampedcataclysm.html#info |
| 22:12.11 | jnwhiteh | Anyone here have a Razr Naga mouse? |
| 22:12.59 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (~snild@2001:14b8:124::1) |
| 22:13.42 | TC-Work | SUP NAGA! |
| 22:14.11 | TC-Work | i have 2 different mice by them, but not that one |
| 22:14.16 | jnwhiteh | =0 |
| 22:15.40 | *** join/#wowuidev SeanK (~SeanK@pool-98-117-120-73.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 22:24.51 | Kraps | why cant blizz just upgrade their infrastructure? /gritsteeth |
| 22:25.36 | Iriel | Eh? |
| 22:26.30 | Iriel | Aren't they constantly upgrading their infrastructure? |
| 22:29.44 | Kraps | the guild cap thing, and i was listening to bluplz who was going to have a "Trollfest" gathering after the podcast, and the GMs shut it down during the podcast because 500 toons in one place made the server lag too much |
| 22:31.43 | durcyn | working on engine scalability doesn't increase profit |
| 22:33.01 | Kraps | it could totally raise awareness through massive ingame events |
| 22:35.56 | Antiarc | MMOs remain viable by trying to spread players out |
| 22:36.23 | Antiarc | It's just a simple fact that if you're computing and updates for X many people every tick for a given area, it's just not going to scale |
| 22:38.29 | Antiarc | You have to send N^2-N updates per tick, where N is the number of players in an area of interest |
| 22:38.46 | Antiarc | So if you have to 10 people, 90 updates/tick. If you have 500, 249,500 updates/tick. |
| 22:39.04 | Antiarc | O(n^2) scales like crap :P |
| 22:39.52 | durcyn | if CCP can do it, blizzard can do it, there's just zero motivation |
| 22:40.01 | Iriel | Right because CCP do what wow does |
| 22:40.12 | cbreak | blizzard could do what CCP does |
| 22:40.16 | Antiarc | CCP has an entirely different infrastructure model. |
| 22:40.19 | cbreak | if they had instances every room |
| 22:40.40 | ckknight | Antiarc: O(n^n) ftw |
| 22:41.10 | Iriel | Eve's player-player interaction model is so reduced from the general wow experience there's essentially no comparison |
| 22:41.22 | Iriel | it's basically a super low bandwidth text adventure with a gui |
| 22:42.54 | Antiarc | Blizzard COULD do it, but the cost-benefit tradeoff is laughable |
| 22:43.20 | durcyn | it's not that far off, 3d positioning, facing, and some animations, and incredibly spammy combat on top of it |
| 22:43.40 | durcyn | what's blizzard keeping track of above and beyond that, who's jumping at any given time? |
| 22:44.55 | durcyn | i'm genuinely curious, not being aware of what's actually synced to the client |
| 22:45.02 | Iriel | There's detailed combat awareness (in near real time), locations, facings, actions (starts, stops, delays), all again in near real time. |
| 22:45.26 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 22:45.44 | cbreak | Eve Online is not spammy combat |
| 22:45.49 | cbreak | it's very high latency combat |
| 22:45.49 | amro | http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250706947759&ssPageName=ADME:L:LCA:CA:1123#ht_626wt_1138 |
| 22:46.00 | amro | get yer veggiess.. |
| 22:46.05 | Iriel | I like to think of eve as 'asynchronous combat' |
| 22:46.09 | cbreak | WoW's combat is spammy, every single attack is sent by you |
| 22:46.21 | cbreak | in Eve, you just turn on or off auto attacks on various things |
| 22:46.43 | cbreak | also, movement in WoW is very direct |
| 22:46.50 | cbreak | and range matters, a lot |
| 22:46.53 | amro | eve is not about what you do during a fight, it's what you do before |
| 22:47.01 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@user-11217cv.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 22:47.01 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 22:47.01 | cbreak | and facing |
| 22:47.03 | amro | the engagement itself might as well be autopilot once you know what needs doing |
| 22:47.23 | cbreak | there was a bug in WoW a few years ago that disabled mothion compensation |
| 22:47.25 | cbreak | it was fun |
| 22:47.33 | cbreak | everything on the screen moved once or twice a second |
| 22:47.54 | cbreak | I bet, in Eve, motion is even more detached from input than that |
| 22:48.23 | amro | your input is just setting speed and bearing |
| 22:48.44 | Antiarc | I picked a random 1-second slice from last night's WoW combat log, and there are 175 events in that 1 second. That's ONLY combat-loggable events. That doesn't include positioning, facing, movement updates, chat, or player state updates |
| 22:49.18 | Iriel | Also, I dont think many eve attacks really care about facing |
| 22:49.34 | Antiarc | The next second contains 213 events. |
| 22:49.37 | Iriel | (if any, i'm trying to remember) |
| 22:49.42 | amro | Iriel: indirectly- they care about velocity |
| 22:49.54 | cbreak | Eve does not have velocity |
| 22:49.59 | amro | yes it does |
| 22:50.11 | cbreak | it's in space |
| 22:50.15 | amro | so? |
| 22:50.23 | Antiarc | Sir Isaac Newton is the deadliest son of a bitch in space. |
| 22:50.26 | Iriel | I admire Eve for the way they built it, it's very cool from an engineering standpoint, but it's nothing like the interactivity of WoW, and it's agent-agent interaction that kills scalability. |
| 22:50.32 | cbreak | if it had velocity, I could go faster and faster just by turning on my thrusters |
| 22:50.47 | jnwhiteh | Okay, who are the authors of popular unit frames that you would want to be able to click-cast with? |
| 22:50.47 | Iriel | It's not got an accurate physics model |
| 22:50.52 | Iriel | but it's got velocity |
| 22:50.53 | amro | velocity as in speed+direction |
| 22:50.53 | Iriel | 8-) |
| 22:50.54 | jnwhiteh | I need a list of people to contact. |
| 22:51.04 | Antiarc | That's just a movement vector. |
| 22:51.40 | amro | erm |
| 22:51.52 | amro | that's also velocity |
| 22:52.04 | amro | as in, 200m/s in that direction |
| 22:52.10 | Iriel | I'm with amro on this one |
| 22:52.24 | durcyn | 'distance travelled per unit time' |
| 22:52.31 | Iriel | the issue is really with 'acceleration' not with 'velocity' |
| 22:52.35 | durcyn | what's lacking is an accurate acceleration model for zero gravity |
| 22:52.35 | amro | yeah |
| 22:52.51 | amro | well this was never about eve's physics :P |
| 22:52.52 | Antiarc | Acceleration in zero gravity is trivial to simulate :P |
| 22:52.54 | durcyn | but that'd be game-breaking so. |
| 22:52.59 | cbreak | you even get slower without any outside influence... |
| 22:53.02 | Iriel | Antiarc: and absolutely unplayable 8-) |
| 22:53.03 | Antiarc | Yup! |
| 22:53.14 | cbreak | why unplayable? |
| 22:53.17 | Iriel | So they cheat on their physics/force model. |
| 22:53.18 | cbreak | it'd be fun |
| 22:53.23 | Iriel | add damping and whatnot. |
| 22:53.28 | Antiarc | Fun in a teflon-on-ice kind of way, sure |
| 22:53.33 | Iriel | Life without damping and compensation is short and unpleasant |
| 22:53.48 | Stanzilla | jnwhiteh: s hefki, n evcairiel and phanx for pitbull sraidframes and grid? |
| 22:53.52 | cbreak | only if you can bump into things |
| 22:53.54 | Iriel | (assuming any kind of potential impact) |
| 22:53.55 | Iriel | yeah |
| 22:53.57 | cbreak | there's lots of empty space in space |
| 22:53.59 | jnwhiteh | nevcairiel: http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?p=208175#post208175 |
| 22:54.08 | Iriel | true, but compltely empty space is also a boring game |
| 22:54.10 | Antiarc | relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bloy8-7vrk |
| 22:54.17 | jnwhiteh | hrm, anyone know how best to get in touch with Phanx? |
| 22:54.18 | cbreak | tell that to Eve players |
| 22:54.23 | Stanzilla | wowace forum PM |
| 22:54.38 | amro | you can ram into ships to move them out of the way in eve, there's no point in discussing the physics in that game :P |
| 22:55.05 | cbreak | what are they build from? Rubber? |
| 22:55.06 | Iriel | I just assume they do some handwaveyness about energy fields and whatnot |
| 22:55.14 | cbreak | some? Like, only |
| 22:55.27 | Iriel | hard collisions are also impossible to model "usefully" given their asynchronous model. |
| 22:55.35 | cbreak | planets in Eve online are only a few times bigger than space stations |
| 22:55.51 | cbreak | you can't even fly into them for some reason |
| 22:55.55 | cbreak | at least I never managed |
| 22:56.08 | amro | they're far bigger than stations, what are you talking about? |
| 22:56.11 | amro | it would take forever to get close |
| 22:56.16 | cbreak | no, I have warp |
| 22:56.24 | cbreak | I warped through one a few times |
| 22:57.24 | Antiarc | Anyhow |
| 22:57.38 | Antiarc | To understand why WoW doesn't scale to tons of players in small spaces, read up on quadtrees :P |
| 22:58.59 | cbreak | octtrees! |
| 22:59.03 | cbreak | it's in 3d |
| 23:00.03 | cbreak | well, there are lots of structures you can use |
| 23:00.17 | cbreak | but none of them saves you if you have to consider a whole lot of things |
| 23:00.27 | Cairenn | thanks Lunessa |
| 23:00.30 | cbreak | it only helps if you can cheaply ignore a whole lot :) |
| 23:00.34 | Adys | Arrowmaster: ping |
| 23:00.38 | Lunessa | You're most welcome. |
| 23:00.39 | amro | not just that- range calculations and events increase exponentially |
| 23:01.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Sliker (~ponies@5e074660.bb.sky.com) |
| 23:01.41 | Adys | Arrowmaster: nvm got it |
| 23:01.52 | cbreak | I implemented a very nice and simple uniform grid partitioning scheme |
| 23:02.09 | cbreak | that works in real animation time with a few tens of thousands of particles |
| 23:02.19 | cbreak | (Implemented as in: wrote it after the docs from NVidia :) |
| 23:02.46 | Arrowmaster | Adys: why are you pinging me |
| 23:02.59 | amro | it's fun |
| 23:02.59 | Adys | just wanted your email, yournick at gmail yeha? |
| 23:03.00 | cbreak | since the range of WoW characters are all about the same (event range) |
| 23:03.12 | Arrowmaster | thats one but i dont use it |
| 23:03.27 | cbreak | a uniform grid might be less resource demanding and similarly performance improving as a more complicated scheme |
| 23:04.29 | PProvost | Cairenn: is there a wowi logo online bigger than this one - http://s.wowinterface.com/images/wowinterface.gif |
| 23:04.50 | Cairenn | dolby: ^^ |
| 23:05.15 | Kraps | jnwhiteh: grid? |
| 23:05.29 | jnwhiteh | Kraps: yeah, I'm trying to get in touch with Phanx |
| 23:05.32 | jnwhiteh | who I think run its |
| 23:05.43 | dolby | what do you need it for? i have bigger pixel version or we now have a 1 color vector as well |
| 23:06.12 | dolby | PProvost: ^^ |
| 23:06.14 | PProvost | Just gonna put it on the site button I use in Chrome SpeedDial |
| 23:06.15 | PProvost | :) |
| 23:06.21 | dolby | ah ok |
| 23:06.30 | dolby | will upload a bigger version in a min |
| 23:06.53 | PProvost | hehe thanks |
| 23:07.36 | Shirik | this is officially the best javascript ever |
| 23:07.40 | Kraps | ie 9 copies chrome |
| 23:07.45 | Shirik | go to any page and then type this in the browser |
| 23:07.47 | Shirik | javascript:var%20s%20=%20document.createElement('script');s.type='text/javascript';document.body.appendChild(s);s.src='http://erkie.github.com/asteroids.min.js';void(0); |
| 23:07.59 | Shirik | (doesn't work in chrome, sorry) |
| 23:08.20 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: old |
| 23:08.26 | jnwhiteh | also, works just fine in chrome. |
| 23:08.26 | Shirik | fu |
| 23:08.27 | jnwhiteh | kthx. |
| 23:08.31 | Shirik | didn't work for me :( |
| 23:08.46 | jnwhiteh | lrn2notwindows. |
| 23:08.52 | jnwhiteh | =) |
| 23:08.54 | ckknight | Shirik: can't be a new tab, has to be an existing page |
| 23:09.11 | ckknight | jnwhiteh: what's wrong with windows? |
| 23:09.19 | jnwhiteh | nothing in particular =) |
| 23:09.25 | ckknight | okay then |
| 23:09.28 | jnwhiteh | just works for me on Chrome/Mac :P |
| 23:11.08 | dolby | PProvost: http://s.wowinterface.com/images/wowinterface-big.png |
| 23:11.16 | jnwhiteh | Well if anyone knows a unit frame author, please point them at http://bit.ly/a9DMvS and please make sure they know I am available to discuss any issues. |
| 23:11.35 | PProvost | dolby: Thanks! |
| 23:14.40 | Shirik | I refuse to ever get a mac |
| 23:14.47 | Shirik | my friend has one, he has been corrupted |
| 23:14.58 | jnwhiteh | good to know you're objective =) |
| 23:15.12 | Kraps | "Right. If you are trying to AE tank and a bad dps is attacking the wrong target and dies, we call that justice. If you are trying to AE tank and a healer pulls aggo, then threat generation is just too low and we need to buff it." OH NO GC DI'NT |
| 23:15.17 | Shirik | It's bad enough my company wants to force an iphone down my throat |
| 23:18.33 | Kraps | this thread title made me do a double-take http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35043 |
| 23:19.59 | Mirrormn | Shirik: I've been using that bookmark in chrome and it is wonderful |
| 23:20.21 | Mirrormn | Chrome/Windows 7 |
| 23:22.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Schnaks (~Schnaks@p4FC4BDB1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:23.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Mirrormn (4b5b3d29@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.91.61.41) |
| 23:23.48 | Mirrormn | accidentally blasted my text entry box =S |
| 23:23.57 | Shadowed | nicoli_s! |
| 23:24.38 | Mirrormn | oh shit, I just realized we have a raid tonight |
| 23:24.54 | cog|work | doesn't miss that feeling |
| 23:26.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (~xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 23:30.23 | *** join/#wowuidev zz_Alram (~Alram@famous.on.irc.marlamin.nl) |
| 23:31.43 | *** join/#wowuidev cralor (~cralor@c-75-68-70-97.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 23:36.26 | tem | Mirrormn, lol me too |
| 23:36.32 | *** join/#wowuidev nudave (~nudave@cpe-67-253-159-254.rochester.res.rr.com) |
| 23:36.44 | tem | and your brother won't be there to tank tacticians for me |
| 23:36.55 | tem | so I'll need to "go afk" during blood trash |
| 23:37.02 | Mirrormn | where the hell has he been anyway |
| 23:37.53 | Mirrormn | (playing SC2 I bet) |
| 23:38.44 | Jerub | i did a realm change and faction change. |
| 23:38.53 | Jerub | this meant i got to do coren 3 times in 1 day |
| 23:39.08 | Jerub | and what do i get? a second bloody BOE mace. |
| 23:39.11 | tem | Mirrormn, he's "officially" spiraled |
| 23:39.18 | tem | says a post on the forums |
| 23:39.37 | Mirrormn | I guess if I ever read the forums I would know about that |
| 23:39.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Pneumatus^ (~WiN@81.174.255.130) |
| 23:40.16 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 23:40.16 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 23:41.02 | tem | it's a bored at work thing for me |
| 23:41.45 | KarlKFI|work | http://www.amazon.com/Zack-Zoey-Land-Shark-Costume/dp/B002GZDTWS?tag=dealswoot-20 |
| 23:42.15 | *** join/#wowuidev jnwhiteh (~jnwhiteh@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/cladhaire) |
| 23:42.15 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o jnwhiteh] by ChanServ |
