| 00:03.44 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (~theorb@91.84.53.6) |
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| 00:14.20 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:14.50 | kd3 | oh, Legorol: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=26850276660&sid=1 |
| 00:18.43 | foxlit | http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1254848/1/Celastrus/matches << yowch |
| 00:27.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Sargeras (~Sargeras@cpe-24-24-132-175.socal.res.rr.com) |
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| 00:39.02 | Shirik | Cide |
| 00:39.06 | Shirik | you know what Salmiak is? |
| 00:39.34 | Cide | of course |
| 00:39.59 | Shirik | do you like it? |
| 00:40.03 | Shirik | my roommate got some |
| 00:40.18 | Cide | unless you mean it as a proper noun instead of the liquorice |
| 00:40.40 | Shirik | no I mean the liquorice |
| 00:40.40 | Cide | I assume you mean the liquorice then |
| 00:40.44 | Cide | and yeah, it's great |
| 00:40.54 | Shirik | no it's not >< |
| 00:41.01 | Cide | they recently introduced a chocolate+salmiak candy bar here in sweden and it's great |
| 00:41.08 | Cide | but salmiak candy in general is good |
| 00:41.49 | Cide | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salty_liquorice |
| 00:42.02 | Cide | image on the right, 1 down ("Djungelvrål") is pretty good |
| 00:44.30 | Cide | have you tried rope racing in worms yet? |
| 00:44.35 | Cide | it's great fun |
| 00:45.36 | Shirik | cide |
| 00:45.40 | Shirik | how do I make a uppercase po? |
| 00:46.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 00:46.40 | Cide | Ã
|
| 00:46.46 | Cide | like that |
| 00:46.59 | Kraps | hey peeps |
| 00:48.58 | Shirik | Cide |
| 00:49.03 | Cide | Shirik |
| 00:49.04 | Shirik | are you aware this stuff has ammonium chloride in it? |
| 00:49.15 | Cide | yes, that wikipedia article said so |
| 00:49.22 | Cide | I didn't previously but I don't really care |
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| 00:49.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (~Kandoko@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 00:50.17 | Cide | doesn't say anything about toxicity in its wikipedia article |
| 00:50.21 | Cide | so I don't see the issue |
| 00:51.36 | Kraps | Realm First! Level 85 Lost Isles Goblin - First goblin on the realm to achieve level 85 who completed the Lost Isles quest chain. |
| 00:51.38 | Kraps | Realm First! Level 85 Gilnean Worgen - First worgen on the realm to achieve level 85 who completed the Gilneas quest chain. |
| 00:51.42 | Kraps | brilliant |
| 00:52.11 | foxlit | As long as they fix the bug. |
| 00:52.19 | Kraps | what bug |
| 00:52.25 | foxlit | finished the gilneas quest chain on his race-changed worgen. |
| 00:52.43 | foxlit | Can't see that staying around for much longer, though |
| 00:53.09 | Kraps | oh "creative use of game mechanics" :p |
| 00:53.35 | foxlit | outright phasing bug |
| 00:57.59 | Kraps | RL creative use of game mechanics http://bleacherreport.com/articles/466294-yankee-haters-dont-hate-the-player-hate-the-game-jeter-not-a-cheater |
| 00:58.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Zhinjio (~Geo@home.trippy.org) |
| 01:01.32 | Ackis | p[;'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''-[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[ |
| 01:01.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (~Kandoko@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 01:02.39 | Kraps | i disagree Ackis |
| 01:02.53 | kd3 | stop sleeping on the keyboard, ackis |
| 01:02.55 | dolby | gazoontite Ackis |
| 01:03.35 | dolby | or Gesundheit however you want to spell it |
| 01:03.36 | dolby | lol |
| 01:06.11 | Cide | hmm |
| 01:06.19 | Cide | what's the intuitive way to combine two colors with alpha? |
| 01:06.42 | Cide | combined alpha is 1-(1-a)*(1-b) for alpha values a and b I believe |
| 01:06.53 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@c-76-114-170-138.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 01:06.54 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 01:06.59 | Cide | but what about the color? which color space works best? |
| 01:10.57 | Kraps | Bibi:http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/26850256683/running-wild/ |
| 01:11.15 | Kraps | err bad nick |
| 01:12.49 | ZorbaTHut | cide, RGB does. partial transparency works by blocking a fraction of light |
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| 01:13.17 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 01:13.43 | ZorbaTHut | if you're in HSL, and all your partially-transparent surfaces are completely black, you can get away with just applying alpha to L. but anything else results in essentially converting to RGB first |
| 01:14.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Borgleader (~borgleade@modemcable253.146-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 01:16.06 | SqueeG | I'm trying to test making a scrollingframe using lib-scrollingtable.... http://paste.wowace.com/2473/ |
| 01:16.15 | SqueeG | But it's not populating |
| 01:16.22 | Cide | ZorbaTHut: I mean combining two colors |
| 01:16.32 | Cide | can I just average the r, g, and b values? |
| 01:16.53 | Cide | doesn't seem perfectly logical |
| 01:19.33 | ZorbaTHut | in fact, you can, if you want 50% transparency |
| 01:20.20 | ZorbaTHut | the general calculation is r = orig_r * new_alpha + new_r * (1 - new_alpha) |
| 01:20.40 | ZorbaTHut | (assuming no premultiplied color values, obviously extending to other channels as well) |
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| 01:22.13 | Cide | yeah, maybe it works I guess |
| 01:22.17 | Cide | thanks |
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| 01:35.41 | Ackis | blarg |
| 01:35.46 | Ackis | my cats said hello to you all |
| 01:36.06 | Ackis | what are the rules for kicking someone from an instance? |
| 01:40.41 | Ackis | anyone know a Garok from Burning Blade |
| 01:40.42 | Ackis | ? |
| 01:42.01 | SqueeG | stabs warcraft |
| 01:42.26 | gtsafas | Anyone see anything wrong here? http://pastie.org/1167514 |
| 01:44.49 | SqueeG | aren't the class colors supposed to be capital letters? |
| 01:44.59 | SqueeG | and....death knight one word? |
| 01:45.09 | SqueeG | or something |
| 01:45.54 | cbreak | you mean RAID_CLASS_COLORS? |
| 01:47.01 | SqueeG | that's what i assumed |
| 01:47.09 | SqueeG | there's a cnversation going on in wowace now though |
| 01:47.13 | SqueeG | so imma watch |
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| 01:59.01 | awweaver | Well...the beta servers have been offline for quite awhile now...make them come back |
| 01:59.28 | Ressy | They're still not serving up the next patch |
| 01:59.53 | cogwheel | Fisker: ima kill joo |
| 01:59.53 | awweaver | Nope....i figure3d thats what they were doing though since they didnt come right back up |
| 02:00.24 | Ressy | Its prolly gonna be another long downtime. :( |
| 02:00.39 | Ackis | cogwheel: kill him once for me |
| 02:03.22 | cogwheel | it'll cost you extra if i can't resuscitate him... |
| 02:03.47 | cogwheel | (to kill him for me :P ) |
| 02:03.54 | cogwheel | Fisker: i lost a bet on duke |
| 02:04.02 | Ackis | signs Xinhuan up for donkey pr0n news letters |
| 02:05.24 | Ackis | WoW would be more fun if there weren't other people |
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| 02:10.21 | cogwheel | transfer to low pop realm? |
| 02:10.30 | cogwheel | s/pop/pop rp/ |
| 02:12.59 | cogwheel | ~karma Ackis |
| 02:12.59 | purl | ackis has karma of -2 |
| 02:13.15 | cogwheel | BURN |
| 02:13.41 | cogwheel | aww i lurvs u |
| 02:13.46 | cogwheel | ~Ackis++ |
| 02:14.32 | Ackis | my karma flucuates |
| 02:14.41 | Ackis | it's like my blood pressure |
| 02:15.09 | SqueeG | are they going to allow people to snare mobs in cata? |
| 02:15.27 | SqueeG | because... an unfortunate number of mobs in wotlk loved to pumel my frost mage in the face |
| 02:15.30 | SqueeG | pummel* |
| 02:18.11 | Kraps | SqueeG: eh? |
| 02:18.47 | SqueeG | in wotlk, there were a lot of snare resistant mobs |
| 02:18.52 | SqueeG | were/are |
| 02:19.19 | SqueeG | especially in icecrown D: |
| 02:20.52 | cogwheel | fucking pope |
| 02:21.09 | cogwheel | "â"As we reflect on the sobering lessons of the atheist extremism of the twentieth century, let us never forget how the exclusion of God, religion and virtue from public life leads ultimately to a truncated vision of man and of society and thus to a âreductive vision of the person and his destinyâ (Caritas in Veritate, 29)." |
| 02:21.56 | SqueeG | to an extent |
| 02:21.58 | SqueeG | he has a point |
| 02:22.08 | cogwheel | O.o |
| 02:22.10 | kd3 | s/atheist// |
| 02:22.23 | Ackis | without religion, we'd be no where tbh cogwheel |
| 02:22.29 | cogwheel | name one instance of "atheist extremisim?" |
| 02:22.37 | Kraps | PETA? |
| 02:22.39 | Kraps | :p |
| 02:22.43 | cogwheel | Ackis: no, the people who are currently religious wouldn't have an easy time changing... |
| 02:23.20 | Ackis | I was refering to the evolution of society as a whole... alchohol and religion were paramount to that |
| 02:23.29 | SqueeG | most religions are based on a good moral core |
| 02:23.34 | kd3 | mmm... beer |
| 02:23.46 | SqueeG | and through the community of said religions morality is espoused |
| 02:23.47 | kd3 | also not a discussion I want to get in to tonight >.> |
| 02:24.14 | Ackis | takes the opposite opinion of cogwheel on everything |
| 02:24.23 | SqueeG | when you start piling on extra shit is where a lot of people start to argue :p |
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| 02:24.37 | awweaver | Patch is up... |
| 02:24.43 | awweaver | For the beta |
| 02:24.59 | awweaver | have to login then do it... |
| 02:25.22 | cogwheel | Ackis: there is no reason to believe that just because most people were religious in the past, that religion was in any way fundamentally responsible for our progress |
| 02:25.41 | cogwheel | people do the things they do whether religion is present or not |
| 02:25.50 | cogwheel | obviously they may do different things some times |
| 02:26.03 | cogwheel | but artists are still artists |
| 02:26.03 | Ackis | religion itself may or may not have contributed, it was the side effects that it brought people together |
| 02:26.15 | cogwheel | politicians are politicians |
| 02:26.23 | cogwheel | people are still social |
| 02:26.37 | cogwheel | there is nothing religion offers that can't be had by secular means |
| 02:27.17 | cogwheel | even fooling yourself into false beliefs ;) |
| 02:27.27 | SqueeG | cogwheel, humans crave something higher than themselves |
| 02:27.43 | kd3 | says who? |
| 02:27.44 | cogwheel | we'll have that soon if Shirik has anything to do with it... |
| 02:28.03 | cogwheel | he's buliding skynet you know |
| 02:28.18 | awweaver | scratch my last statement... |
| 02:28.47 | SqueeG | i've read stuff, it's a lot of social experiment stuff |
| 02:29.09 | SqueeG | in most societies where religion is oppressed, religious beliefs tend to explode underground |
| 02:29.19 | SqueeG | or... something along those lines |
| 02:29.23 | cogwheel | it doesn't need to be oppressed |
| 02:29.26 | cogwheel | it needs to be abandoned |
| 02:29.48 | SqueeG | why? |
| 02:30.05 | kd3 | so pedophillic priests stop getting away with it? |
| 02:30.09 | kd3 | >.> |
| 02:30.13 | SqueeG | all religion is...at it's core... is a club |
| 02:30.19 | cogwheel | yep |
| 02:30.29 | SqueeG | you can't blame the religion for the idiots |
| 02:30.39 | cogwheel | except in a way you can... |
| 02:30.55 | kd3 | sure I can. when "the church" covers shit like this up, who else are we to blame? |
| 02:31.06 | SqueeG | 'the church' isn't the religion though :p |
| 02:31.11 | cogwheel | every catholic gives money to the pope |
| 02:31.25 | cogwheel | why don't they sever their ties with the vatican? |
| 02:31.28 | SqueeG | tithing is to promote a storng community |
| 02:31.42 | SqueeG | religious leaders corrupting that idea is a human flaw |
| 02:31.58 | cogwheel | yes... which is why you shouldn't hold humans infallible |
| 02:32.14 | cogwheel | you shouldn't let people tell you a book is written by the inventor of the universe |
| 02:32.16 | SqueeG | agreed |
| 02:32.20 | SqueeG | to point 1 |
| 02:32.27 | Ackis | chantelle is cancling her cataclysm pre-order |
| 02:32.54 | cogwheel | because some people take it seriously |
| 02:33.23 | SqueeG | that's faith though |
| 02:33.27 | Kraps | Ackis: why |
| 02:33.29 | SqueeG | believing in something higher |
| 02:34.18 | cogwheel | faith is belief in something without objective evidence. believing in something higher is more specific and somewhat irrelevant. it's not the belief in something higher |
| 02:34.21 | cogwheel | it's the dogma |
| 02:34.40 | cogwheel | why do people who don't act by the word of the bible still cling to it? |
| 02:34.48 | Ackis | Kraps: she's going to play FFXIV when it comes out |
| 02:34.50 | cogwheel | i understand it's tradition but seriously |
| 02:34.54 | SqueeG | insanity, cogwheel :p |
| 02:34.57 | cogwheel | it's practically snuff fiction |
| 02:35.01 | Kraps | Ackis: fail |
| 02:35.06 | kd3 | ackis; hope she enjoys the hour or two of playtime she gets a week |
| 02:35.12 | Ackis | Kraps: we just aren't having fun in wow |
| 02:35.17 | Ackis | kd3: they removed that limitation |
| 02:35.31 | Kraps | Ackis: cata |
| 02:35.35 | SqueeG | cogwheel, you've pointed out the disconnect |
| 02:35.46 | SqueeG | it happens in any kind of organization |
| 02:35.54 | Ackis | hasn't been having fun :( |
| 02:36.10 | Kraps | Ackis: cata |
| 02:36.19 | kd3 | then religion needs to follow the same rules as the secular organizations do |
| 02:36.57 | kd3 | and none of this "oh, it's the church. we can't question them" crap |
| 02:37.06 | SqueeG | kd3 |
| 02:37.17 | SqueeG | there are plenty of people within those churches saying the exact same thing |
| 02:37.44 | kd3 | and yet here the pope is covering pedophiles up. what can "plenty of people" do to him? |
| 02:37.59 | SqueeG | you can't hold the crazies up as representatives of a whole organization |
| 02:38.14 | kd3 | s/the crazies/the pope/ ? |
| 02:38.28 | SqueeG | shrugs |
| 02:38.40 | SqueeG | that's something the church needs to take care of |
| 02:38.53 | SqueeG | and until then, it will continue to push people away |
| 02:39.06 | SqueeG | every religion has those problems though |
| 02:39.17 | SqueeG | the catholics are just scrutinized more often |
| 02:40.41 | SqueeG | there was a big shit storm over that, last year, actually |
| 02:41.18 | SqueeG | catholics were starting to get pissed at all the media attention about cover ups, when there had been a few other stories about cover ups in other religions that same year, that got like... no attention |
| 02:41.35 | Kraps | kd3: keep in mind that the church has been more powerful than kings since forever |
| 02:41.56 | Kraps | it'll take a while to break that |
| 02:42.53 | cogwheel | SqueeG: you've just pointed out another crucial problem too... |
| 02:43.12 | cogwheel | yes the pope's antics will push some people away |
| 02:43.27 | SqueeG | it's pushed plenty of my generation away |
| 02:43.34 | cogwheel | however, a fundamental problem of religion is the extraordinarily high psychological barrier to exit, as it were... |
| 02:44.50 | cogwheel | secular beliefs can be changed more easily because they aren't held sacred |
| 02:44.59 | kd3 | most of the time >.> |
| 02:45.05 | cogwheel | true |
| 02:45.11 | cogwheel | gg ghost hunters |
| 02:45.49 | cogwheel | and tinfoil hatters |
| 02:46.47 | kd3 | in wow-related news, I've got almost all of the post-cataclysm maps up-to-date as of today |
| 02:46.53 | kd3 | http://www.wowwiki.com/Cataclysm_map_comparison |
| 02:48.35 | SqueeG | cogwheel |
| 02:48.39 | SqueeG | a point i touched on earlier |
| 02:48.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Parnic (user@2001:470:1f05:381::3) |
| 02:48.49 | SqueeG | people will gravitate toward SOMETHING |
| 02:48.51 | SqueeG | and hold it sacred |
| 02:48.56 | cogwheel | like sports |
| 02:49.40 | cogwheel | i don't really care about sports... Sports rule books don't tell people to kill people |
| 02:50.15 | SqueeG | and neither do most holy books |
| 02:50.37 | cogwheel | if by most holy books you're talking number of religions, i can't say |
| 02:51.03 | cogwheel | but the big 3 western religions all do |
| 02:51.07 | Torhal | cogwheel: Yeah, but sports zealots can be just as bad as religious zealots. Normal people don't overturn cars and set shit on fire when their team loses. |
| 02:51.22 | kd3 | ..or wins |
| 02:51.25 | kd3 | looks at LA and sighs |
| 02:51.30 | cogwheel | Torhal: yes we've been there |
| 02:51.39 | ccox | you forget - the same thing happens when teams WIN |
| 02:51.47 | cogwheel | the problem is that religions *direct* people to kill others |
| 02:51.51 | Torhal | digresses. |
| 02:51.52 | ccox | (especially when they win national titiles) |
| 02:52.18 | SqueeG | cogwheel |
| 02:52.29 | SqueeG | Most mainstream religions do NOT do that |
| 02:52.37 | kd3 | er... |
| 02:52.40 | cogwheel | O.o |
| 02:52.40 | SqueeG | once again...the human interference does |
| 02:52.42 | kd3 | points at the bible... and the qur'an |
| 02:52.44 | cogwheel | have you ever read the bible? |
| 02:52.47 | SqueeG | yea |
| 02:52.56 | SqueeG | and it doesn't tell you to go out and kill people |
| 02:53.00 | SqueeG | it talks a lot about death |
| 02:53.02 | SqueeG | and war |
| 02:53.03 | cogwheel | i didn't say "go out and kill people" |
| 02:53.13 | cogwheel | go read it again... |
| 02:53.15 | cogwheel | especially deut |
| 02:53.19 | ccox | (the old testament does, as a matter of fact; but the new testament contradicts that) |
| 02:53.20 | SqueeG | in fact the whol jesus part makes that abundantly clear |
| 02:53.26 | cogwheel | ccox: no it doesn't |
| 02:53.33 | cogwheel | well, it contradicts itself in that regard maybe |
| 02:53.35 | Kraps | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystere_incident |
| 02:53.55 | cogwheel | jesus says the old laws still hold true |
| 02:54.11 | ccox | he says the old LAWS hold true, not all the old B.S. |
| 02:54.18 | SqueeG | chrisitanity is based off the belief in jesus being the messiah |
| 02:54.26 | cogwheel | ccox: the old bs WERE the old laws |
| 02:54.30 | SqueeG | and therefore the new testament wins in a rules debate |
| 02:54.46 | SqueeG | so if you're worried about old testament doom and gloom, look to the jewish faith :p |
| 02:54.56 | ccox | cogwheel: nope, most of the B.S. was some leader bending the laws, or trying to create new laws |
| 02:55.18 | cogwheel | then why bother holding on to such a piece of trash? |
| 02:55.21 | ccox | and the new testament teachings pretty explicitly say "don't do that bad shit" |
| 02:55.32 | cogwheel | it *causes* people to behave aberrantly in some cases |
| 02:55.49 | ccox | cog - because there are some good lessons in the old testament, and lots of "learning experiences", plus a lot of verbal history |
| 02:56.09 | cogwheel | there are many other sources for the same lessons |
| 02:56.12 | ccox | cog - no, it does not cause aberrant behavior |
| 02:56.16 | cogwheel | and many of the lessons in it are crap |
| 02:56.18 | cogwheel | ccox: |
| 02:56.20 | SqueeG | cogwheel, a LOT of shit *causes* people to do bad things |
| 02:56.28 | SqueeG | and really, the blame falls on THAT person |
| 02:56.29 | ccox | cogwheel: but it is a frequent excuse used by people |
| 02:56.38 | SqueeG | not the excuse propogated for their actions |
| 02:56.38 | kd3 | and yet because it's a book of religion, it is held inviolate |
| 02:56.49 | ccox | and is used as a basis for bad ideas (crusades, inquisition, etc.) |
| 02:57.06 | kd3 | compared to secular sources of "aberrant behavior"... which the religious right loves to go "b&" |
| 02:57.18 | Adys | Maldivia: ping |
| 02:58.00 | ccox | The new testament tries to teach people to avoid such behavior, and to watch for people manipulating them |
| 02:58.00 | SqueeG | kd3 : fanatics/extremists |
| 02:58.03 | SqueeG | of any stripe |
| 02:58.05 | SqueeG | are a bad idea |
| 02:58.32 | ccox | sadly, some have used that to manipulate large numbers of people - by selecting the pieces they want and ignoring the pieces they don |
| 02:58.37 | cogwheel | ccox: it doesn't take fanatic parents for a child to take the bible seriously. Even a casual acceptance at an early age can have a huge impact on the person |
| 02:58.37 | ccox | t |
| 02:58.46 | SqueeG | so yes, religious extremists are just as bad as secular people trying to attack religions |
| 02:58.48 | ccox | (like all the warnings against organized religion) |
| 02:59.10 | ccox | cog - if they read it and learn from it, great |
| 02:59.11 | SqueeG | cogwheel : a casual acceptance is not tpically a bad thing |
| 02:59.24 | cogwheel | ccox: not great if they learn that you're supposed to stone unruly children |
| 02:59.37 | ccox | cog - but it takes some other factor to make aberrant behavior from the bible, because the bible really teaches against that |
| 02:59.39 | SqueeG | cogwheel : then they're learning wrong |
| 02:59.52 | cogwheel | SqueeG: yes, and you can't control for how children learn |
| 02:59.55 | kd3 | learning wrong... from the bible? |
| 02:59.57 | ccox | or someone is manipulating them |
| 02:59.59 | kd3 | gasps |
| 02:59.59 | cogwheel | but you CAN control what they learn FROM |
| 03:00.13 | SqueeG | we're correcting the wrong behaviors that are learned in our 5 year old |
| 03:00.18 | cogwheel | and the bible is a REALLY shitty source of information |
| 03:00.19 | SqueeG | so i willa rgue against that, cog |
| 03:00.24 | cogwheel | why make them sift through all that? |
| 03:00.33 | cogwheel | and risk them believing in the bad shit? |
| 03:00.57 | PProvost | Especially since, in fact, the majority of it is very questionable, morally, in today's society. |
| 03:01.04 | ccox | well, responsible parents would help them sort it out |
| 03:01.11 | ccox | sadly, not all parents are responsible |
| 03:01.18 | cogwheel | ccox: responsible parents = imaginary parents |
| 03:01.21 | cogwheel | imo >< |
| 03:01.25 | PProvost | Better to teach them morals, and skip that whole book |
| 03:01.28 | SqueeG | that's a societal problem (the parents thing) |
| 03:01.29 | ccox | nah, most are pretty responsible |
| 03:01.31 | cogwheel | everyone does something irresponsible |
| 03:01.35 | SqueeG | and that's never really changed |
| 03:01.39 | cogwheel | sure not chronically |
| 03:01.42 | ccox | but there are always exceptions, misunderstandings, gaps, etc. |
| 03:01.44 | cogwheel | didn't mean it that way |
| 03:02.44 | SqueeG | a responsible person of faith would make sure that their offspring are taught their faith correctly |
| 03:03.04 | SqueeG | take that as you may |
| 03:03.05 | cogwheel | "correctly" |
| 03:03.08 | SqueeG | it can be good or bad |
| 03:03.12 | SqueeG | depending on the parent |
| 03:03.15 | kd3 | which entails... indoctrination at a young age before the young have a chance to defend themselves? |
| 03:03.19 | PProvost | Is "correctly" what the bible says? What your preacher says? What the pope says? |
| 03:03.29 | PProvost | Or what you know in your heart to be "correct"? |
| 03:03.32 | SqueeG | correctly meaning that they'd help the child understand what it is they believe in |
| 03:03.50 | ccox | therein lie many problems... |
| 03:03.52 | SqueeG | PProvost : in christianity it is suppose to be the latter |
| 03:04.06 | PProvost | The Pope? |
| 03:04.21 | SqueeG | no |
| 03:04.23 | PProvost | I'm confused. "The latter" is what? |
| 03:04.26 | SqueeG | what you know in your heart |
| 03:04.30 | SqueeG | based off of god's teachings |
| 03:05.08 | PProvost | And god's teachings come from the bible? |
| 03:05.17 | Kraps | http://twitter.com/god/status/16209101126 |
| 03:05.20 | SqueeG | the church in and of itself is sort of against jesus's teachings anyway |
| 03:05.28 | ccox | yep |
| 03:05.35 | kd3 | kraps; lmao |
| 03:05.37 | SqueeG | God's teachings are IN the bible |
| 03:06.03 | PProvost | Okay. So what about all the teachings in the bible that we know are not true/valid/correct? Or is that not the case? |
| 03:06.51 | cogwheel | SqueeG: if you study people enough, you'll find you really DON'T want them acting based on what they "know in their heart" |
| 03:06.58 | cogwheel | our brains kinda suck |
| 03:07.04 | SqueeG | our brains do |
| 03:07.05 | cogwheel | in some very critical ways |
| 03:07.11 | SqueeG | Our hearts work pretty well |
| 03:07.12 | ccox | You have to remember that part of the bible was passed down by word of mouth (and got distorted), part was mistranslated by an English King (and intentionally distorted in spots), parts approved or removed by a bunch of old men in Rome, etc.. |
| 03:07.17 | cogwheel | -_- |
| 03:07.22 | cogwheel | stop confusing metaphor with fact |
| 03:07.34 | cogwheel | (another symptom of religion :> ) |
| 03:07.47 | cogwheel | ducks |
| 03:07.50 | PProvost | ccox: The old greek and latin bibles still have all the bad teachings. |
| 03:08.03 | ccox | Nope, not all |
| 03:08.20 | cogwheel | ccox: lern2bellcurve |
| 03:08.22 | ccox | Again, there are multiple factors |
| 03:08.51 | ccox | How many of the apocrypha have you read? (books left out of the bible, which may still be real) |
| 03:09.12 | cogwheel | ccox: it's inevitable if you think about it. The religions with teachings to spread the faith and all others are wrong are the ones that will do the most to survive |
| 03:09.17 | SqueeG | cog you're coming at it from the angle that religion is inherently bad |
| 03:09.20 | SqueeG | which it's not |
| 03:09.24 | ccox | And how many books have you read in aramaic (or greek iconography) to validate the translations (many of the translations are horrid) |
| 03:09.27 | cogwheel | SqueeG: the religions we have are |
| 03:09.30 | SqueeG | it's human distortion of the good, that's bad |
| 03:09.36 | SqueeG | ./facepalm |
| 03:09.38 | cogwheel | as i said earlier, it's really dogma that's the problem |
| 03:09.42 | ccox | cog - yes, that is sort of true |
| 03:09.54 | PProvost | SqueeG: there isn't any evidence to suport the idea that religions are inherently good either |
| 03:09.55 | cogwheel | but religions are the only worrisome dogma at the moment as far as i'm concerned |
| 03:10.00 | ccox | cog - but the same applies to any group teaching that it is right and others are wrong (FOX News?) |
| 03:10.14 | cogwheel | ccox: ... |
| 03:10.18 | cogwheel | thanks for proving my point |
| 03:10.24 | kd3 | considering how fox news' viewing audience keeps trending older, that problem will solve itself soon |
| 03:10.35 | kd3 | if not... the stewert/colbert marches next month should help |
| 03:10.46 | kd3 | >.> |
| 03:10.55 | SqueeG | *sigh* |
| 03:10.56 | ccox | kd3 - only if you can get kids away from it, and if their parents believe it, then the kids are likely to believe it |
| 03:11.08 | kd3 | still finds it uproarious that fox is so pissed at some guy on comedy central |
| 03:11.18 | ccox | We may have a generation that thinks it's treason to attend a real college |
| 03:11.24 | cogwheel | you know |
| 03:11.29 | SqueeG | so... what's wrong with fox news? |
| 03:11.33 | cogwheel | i think the us should ditch part of the 1st amendment |
| 03:11.36 | cogwheel | make a state religion |
| 03:11.42 | kd3 | ! |
| 03:11.42 | cogwheel | then all the others would go out of business |
| 03:11.54 | cogwheel | and the state religion would be watered down to an acceptable level |
| 03:12.01 | ccox | cog - except in other countries, which would hate us even more |
| 03:12.02 | SqueeG | cogwheel : no |
| 03:12.12 | SqueeG | that's not how it works at all |
| 03:12.13 | cogwheel | SqueeG: it's already happening/happened |
| 03:12.18 | SqueeG | it'd make things a lot worse |
| 03:12.40 | cogwheel | SqueeG: and guess who are trying to promote theocracy? |
| 03:12.50 | SqueeG | here we go :p |
| 03:13.05 | SqueeG | are you implying that someone promoting FAITH is promoting theocracy? |
| 03:13.11 | SqueeG | because... there's a big difference |
| 03:13.26 | cogwheel | if they didn't have faith there wouldn't be any reason for them to promote theocracy |
| 03:13.35 | SqueeG | and if you have issues with a news network, prove them wrong |
| 03:13.45 | SqueeG | most have policies about correcting misinformation |
| 03:13.57 | ccox | Sadly, the political factions pushing faith, are the ones pushing for theocracy "everyone should follow my beliefs, so we'll change the law to match my beliefs" |
| 03:13.57 | cogwheel | and most people don't pay attention to those corrections |
| 03:14.04 | cogwheel | (experimentally tested) |
| 03:14.07 | SqueeG | no one sane is promoting theocracy in the untied states, cog |
| 03:14.14 | ccox | SqueeG: except the one with the most misinformation... |
| 03:14.17 | cogwheel | SqueeG: not overtly |
| 03:14.38 | ccox | SqueeG: heck, the Weekly World News has a better record for corrections. |
| 03:14.38 | cogwheel | SqueeG: google texas schoolbooks |
| 03:14.39 | SqueeG | you are forgetting that the jewish faith is quite strong in the US |
| 03:15.00 | SqueeG | so... if you're implying christianity is trying to take over, you'd be wrong |
| 03:15.15 | cogwheel | "it" isn't "trying" |
| 03:15.19 | cogwheel | it's an emergent behavior |
| 03:15.20 | cogwheel | imo |
| 03:15.26 | SqueeG | cog |
| 03:15.32 | cogwheel | that wouldn't emerge if it weren't for the bible |
| 03:15.33 | ccox | SqueeG: have you read/listened to a Tea Party or Republican candiate lately? |
| 03:15.37 | SqueeG | if it was going to happen, it would have happened at the inception of the country |
| 03:15.37 | cogwheel | s/bible/dogma/ |
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| 03:15.42 | SqueeG | when virtually everyone was christian |
| 03:15.46 | SqueeG | as opposed to now |
| 03:15.55 | ccox | SqueeG: lol, check your history |
| 03:15.57 | SqueeG | we CAN'T be a theocracy, there are entirely TOO MANY faiths |
| 03:16.11 | SqueeG | christianity in and of itself has a shit ton of branches |
| 03:16.11 | ccox | SqueeG: our founding fathers contained many atheists |
| 03:16.14 | cogwheel | SqueeG: yes, but for some strange reason, they all band together in the name of faith |
| 03:16.22 | cogwheel | lack of faith is demonized |
| 03:16.27 | cogwheel | and people are fed lines of bs |
| 03:16.41 | SqueeG | no... our founding fathers were very faithful, actually |
| 03:16.42 | kd3 | which is how this whole conversation got started, whee |
| 03:16.53 | kd3 | er... really, now? |
| 03:16.53 | cogwheel | bs that ONLY exists because of the belief in a particular fount of knowledge |
| 03:17.00 | SqueeG | no |
| 03:17.01 | ccox | not just lack of faith is demonized, but any beliefs that don't match exactly with the speaking party are demonized |
| 03:17.02 | SqueeG | i studied it |
| 03:17.11 | SqueeG | because I was interested in Deism |
| 03:17.35 | cogwheel | SqueeG: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/texas-schoolbook-massacre-rewrites-american-history-1929320.html |
| 03:18.01 | SqueeG | aaaaaaaaaaaaand our history has been re-written by progressives since the 20s |
| 03:18.02 | SqueeG | point? |
| 03:18.12 | ccox | What I don't understand is how truly aberrant "religions" aren't being targetted (ie: scientology) |
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| 03:18.30 | SqueeG | ccox : amen to that :p |
| 03:18.30 | cogwheel | SqueeG: tell me they're not acting theocratically... |
| 03:18.42 | cogwheel | ccox: who says they aren't? |
| 03:18.45 | cogwheel | ever heard of anonymous? |
| 03:18.46 | SqueeG | sec |
| 03:18.54 | SqueeG | juggling a lot of stuff right now, slow reading xD |
| 03:18.55 | cogwheel | every atheist group i'm involved with talks about them all the time |
| 03:19.02 | cogwheel | (scientologists) |
| 03:19.08 | SqueeG | yea but it hasn't hit mainstream, cog |
| 03:19.16 | ccox | SqueeG: the texas book board CLAIMS that progressives have been rewriting history, as an excuse to impose their beliefs |
| 03:19.26 | cogwheel | SqueeG: which is why people like me need to speak louder |
| 03:19.28 | cogwheel | :P |
| 03:19.49 | SqueeG | cog : but people like you want to burn everything faith related :p |
| 03:19.54 | cogwheel | most people in the public eye who oppose religion are really lame at it |
| 03:20.07 | cogwheel | SqueeG: don't put words in my mouth :P |
| 03:20.16 | ccox | SqueeG: which they would claim even if progressives and liberals had done nothing of the sort |
| 03:20.21 | cogwheel | there is a strong linguistic bias against atheists... |
| 03:20.44 | cogwheel | militant atheism ... "i don't believe you, i think it's ridiculous, and i think society would be better without it" |
| 03:20.52 | cogwheel | militant theism ... click ... booom |
| 03:21.12 | cogwheel | theists always exaggerate what atheists are "trying to do" |
| 03:21.31 | ccox | SqueeG: seen from the far right, removing a right wing bias from history would be making it more liberal |
| 03:21.34 | SqueeG | there's beena LOT of political influence in history |
| 03:21.36 | SqueeG | both ways |
| 03:21.37 | SqueeG | which is bad |
| 03:22.00 | ccox | SqueeG: and if they've forgotten what the middle (ie: facts) look like, then they may think that they're correcting someone else's biases, when they really aren't |
| 03:22.05 | cogwheel | and there's a lot of religious influence in politics |
| 03:22.07 | cogwheel | which is also bad |
| 03:22.32 | ccox | and right now, I think the right has completely forgotten what the middle looks like, much less where to find it |
| 03:22.56 | cogwheel | at least with a state religion we could keep it in its corner |
| 03:23.21 | Kraps | http://graphjam.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/8463a94d-0945-43b6-9adf-db795bbc14b9.png |
| 03:23.28 | ccox | cogwheel: not likely |
| 03:23.30 | SqueeG | ccox : there's a swing happening |
| 03:23.38 | SqueeG | and it needs to be tempered or it can be dangerous, yes |
| 03:23.44 | cogwheel | ccox: that part of my discussion is half jest |
| 03:23.48 | SqueeG | but there are good people, with good heads, in a lot of positions |
| 03:23.56 | cogwheel | ccox: but it really is working in countries like sweden |
| 03:24.01 | ccox | Kraps: that forgot the 30% for "playing with toys" |
| 03:24.07 | cogwheel | (not that it was done that way for this purpose) |
| 03:24.35 | ccox | SqueeG: yes, but the good people are getting shouted down and voted out by really bad people |
| 03:24.53 | SqueeG | depends on who you deem as good |
| 03:25.08 | SqueeG | the people that have been spending trillions of dollars OVER budget, are not good... in my book :p |
| 03:25.31 | ccox | SqueeG: and yet, if that is what is needed to keep the economy from getting worse, wouldn't that be good? |
| 03:25.45 | SqueeG | no, because that's NOT what's needed |
| 03:25.45 | ccox | SqueeG: if balancing the budget would make the economy worse, wouldn't that be bad? |
| 03:26.07 | SqueeG | over-spending and higher taxes, is historically proven to crush economies |
| 03:26.08 | ccox | (oh, and that is what economists agree on -- which is a miracle given that economists never agree) |
| 03:26.40 | ccox | SqueeG: except that we need the taxes to pay for the spending, and we need the spending to help the economy |
| 03:26.46 | ccox | there is a balance point |
| 03:26.49 | SqueeG | no we DON'T need the spending |
| 03:27.02 | SqueeG | we need to free up money in the economy to spend |
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| 03:27.19 | SqueeG | spending money we DON'T HAVE is TERRIBAD for the economy |
| 03:27.22 | Kraps | lets talk about prop 8 |
| 03:27.35 | ccox | SqueeG: lol, no, that is usually NECESSARY for the economy |
| 03:27.51 | ccox | it sounds absurd, until you study economics a while |
| 03:27.52 | SqueeG | keynsian is flawed |
| 03:27.53 | cogwheel | SqueeG: i used to buy that but it has a hidden assumption that the best thing for society is to maximize economic growth. I think there really does need to be some balance. I'll also agree however that we're way off balance... |
| 03:28.09 | ccox | SqueeG: then it sorta, kinda makes sense |
| 03:28.17 | ccox | cog - agreed |
| 03:28.22 | SqueeG | we are overbalance |
| 03:28.25 | SqueeG | agreed |
| 03:28.52 | cogwheel | i'm having a harder time calling myself a libertarian because they too hold some highly dogmatic beliefs |
| 03:28.57 | cogwheel | (myself included) |
| 03:29.00 | ccox | SqueeG: but, who spent over budget, and who reduced our income? |
| 03:29.06 | SqueeG | i'm a constitutionalist |
| 03:29.15 | SqueeG | congress :p |
| 03:29.16 | cogwheel | SqueeG: there ya go. |
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| 03:29.28 | ccox | SqueeG: the current congress didn't reduce our income |
| 03:29.37 | SqueeG | i didn't say current |
| 03:29.41 | ccox | SqueeG: and only spent for an emergency |
| 03:29.45 | cogwheel | your doctrine is the constitution |
| 03:29.47 | SqueeG | nooooooo they did not |
| 03:30.05 | SqueeG | they've spent more than dubbya did in (thinks...) 8 years, in under 2 |
| 03:30.08 | ccox | SqueeG: you have to go back a few years to see who voted to reduces taxes AND increase spending |
| 03:30.10 | SqueeG | by four times |
| 03:30.15 | SqueeG | oh ye |
| 03:30.21 | ccox | SqueeG: wrong |
| 03:30.25 | cogwheel | SqueeG: and clinton had a surplus... it doesn't really matter |
| 03:30.28 | ccox | SqueeG: sorry, that sounds like Fox numbers |
| 03:30.37 | SqueeG | ........ |
| 03:30.40 | cogwheel | economies only have minor fluctuations based on politics |
| 03:30.42 | Kraps | anyone have the 4.0.1 ptr? is it supposed to download build 12942? |
| 03:30.52 | cogwheel | the major cycles have nothing to do with who's in power |
| 03:30.55 | SqueeG | cogwheel : flawed |
| 03:30.58 | kd3 | there was a data wipe. you'll have to get it all again |
| 03:31.05 | SqueeG | look at economics from the pre-civil war era |
| 03:31.06 | cogwheel | and it pisses me off that people try to assign blame like that |
| 03:31.13 | cogwheel | SqueeG: look at technology now |
| 03:31.15 | cogwheel | look at raptors |
| 03:31.18 | cogwheel | look at red herrings |
| 03:31.34 | SqueeG | okay |
| 03:31.39 | SqueeG | look at germany's economy then |
| 03:31.41 | ccox | cog - some blame can be assigned, and some bad policies can be recognized |
| 03:31.45 | Kraps | kd3: will there be cata stuff too or not? |
| 03:31.55 | SqueeG | they're doing the OPPOSITE of our current political spending |
| 03:32.05 | SqueeG | and their recession has turned around completely |
| 03:32.10 | kd3 | on the ptr? no. all of that's getting pushed in the background download |
| 03:32.12 | cogwheel | ccox: not disputed and doesn't affect my point :P |
| 03:32.47 | SqueeG | yes it does, cog :p |
| 03:33.01 | SqueeG | their government pushed through economic policies greatly different from ours |
| 03:33.21 | SqueeG | ireland a few years back cut their business taxes drastically and their economic numbers bulged |
| 03:34.37 | SqueeG | But yes, ccox, cutting taxes and spending more is a terribad idea as well |
| 03:34.54 | SqueeG | cuts in both need to occur FIRST, then economic growth follows (historically) |
| 03:35.41 | SqueeG | Clinton had a 'surplus' do to a conservative congress btw :p |
| 03:35.57 | Corrodias | due |
| 03:36.13 | SqueeG | due is money owed |
| 03:36.20 | Corrodias | due is anything owed |
| 03:36.28 | ccox | uh, and the actions of the congress before the conservatives took power |
| 03:36.34 | SqueeG | argh |
| 03:36.42 | SqueeG | sorry corrodias :p |
| 03:36.44 | SqueeG | due* |
| 03:36.51 | ccox | the conservative congress then turned a surplus into a deficit |
| 03:36.52 | Corrodias | just trying to help |
| 03:37.09 | SqueeG | seriusly ccox? :p |
| 03:37.20 | ccox | yeah |
| 03:37.34 | ccox | the congressional record doesn't lie (too much) |
| 03:37.46 | PProvost | Don't forget, congress spends. The executive branch manages. |
| 03:37.47 | SqueeG | seriously* moo |
| 03:37.55 | SqueeG | congress controls the purse |
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| 03:38.12 | SqueeG | and during clinton, congress actually controlled their spending |
| 03:38.36 | Kraps | PowerPC Macs No Longer Supported With Cataclysm |
| 03:38.45 | SqueeG | then one party rule occurs, shit hits the fan, and thing swing the other way... again |
| 03:39.02 | SqueeG | one party rule is typically what jams things in our butt holes |
| 03:39.27 | ccox | SqueeG: yes, and sometimes it is required to actually get anything done |
| 03:39.30 | PProvost | Nothing better than diff parties in the two branches. |
| 03:39.56 | ccox | I'm still all for making the practice of politics a capitol offense |
| 03:40.05 | SqueeG | nothing that one party rule pushes through is ever good :p |
| 03:40.23 | ccox | SqueeG: again, check your history on that one |
| 03:40.26 | PProvost | Isn't it interesting that a conversation about faith became one about government? Hmmm |
| 03:41.26 | SqueeG | they're diametrically opposed, pprovost ;) |
| 03:42.06 | kd3 | beta patch is out |
| 03:42.09 | SqueeG | for (small) government is but a necessary evil |
| 03:42.44 | kd3 | wtf... even already downloading the -update.mpq, it's still got another 185MB |
| 03:43.14 | ccox | Says 480 Meg here (total) |
| 03:43.54 | ccox | er, hmm - the total numbers are changing along with the remaining numbers. I suspect some calculation bugs in the downloader. |
| 03:44.02 | SqueeG | why does texas get so many things right and SO MANY other things so horribly wrong? |
| 03:44.31 | ccox | SqueeG: cowbody hats |
| 03:44.36 | SqueeG | h |
| 03:44.37 | SqueeG | ahaha |
| 03:45.17 | ccox | Q: why are cowboy hats like hemaroids? |
| 03:45.35 | ccox | A: sooner or later every a**hole gets em |
| 03:45.45 | Corrodias | that word is tricky to spell |
| 03:45.48 | Corrodias | hemorrhoids, or something |
| 03:45.53 | ccox | yeah, and I always screw it up |
| 03:47.13 | SqueeG | haha, nice ccox XD |
| 03:47.24 | kd3 | ho... two mpqs part of tonight's build on beta |
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| 03:48.48 | kd3 | wow-update-12984.MPQ and wow-12942-12984-Win-final.MPQ |
| 03:49.55 | SqueeG | seriously |
| 03:50.04 | SqueeG | how the fuck can they pick on thomas jefferson |
| 03:50.15 | SqueeG | that's not conservative, that's retarded |
| 03:50.48 | kd3 | "Well, hi there, religious right. I'd like to introduce squeeg to you. He seems to have learned something about you this evening" |
| 03:50.59 | SqueeG | kd3 : I beg to differ |
| 03:51.36 | SqueeG | you really can't use any one state's political chicannery as a basis for a national brush |
| 03:52.02 | kd3 | except for the whole... texas's schoolbooks effectively become the national schoolbooks just because of economies of scale? |
| 03:52.04 | SqueeG | look at NY liberalism vs Californian |
| 03:53.17 | SqueeG | even at my most confused point i thought californians were insane |
| 03:53.39 | kd3 | you think they're not? |
| 03:53.41 | kd3 | baffles |
| 03:53.44 | kd3 | >.> |
| 03:54.14 | SqueeG | no no... now i KNOW they are :p |
| 03:54.40 | SqueeG | still agree with them on the marijuana issue though |
| 03:55.40 | SqueeG | And i don't even smoke :p |
| 03:56.00 | cogwheel | SqueeG: was afk for a bit but wanted to address something you said earlier. "cuts in both need to occur FIRST, then economic growth follows (historically)" |
| 03:56.12 | SqueeG | mhm |
| 03:57.07 | cogwheel | post hoc ergo propter hoc imo |
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| 03:57.40 | awweaver | Woot Downloading the beta patch! |
| 03:57.40 | SqueeG | no |
| 03:57.50 | SqueeG | it's cause/effect, actually |
| 03:57.59 | SqueeG | happened under JFK, too |
| 03:58.07 | SqueeG | i won't bother pulling the reagan card |
| 03:58.19 | awweaver | u did what to a dog? |
| 03:58.34 | cogwheel | SqueeG: naming examples doesn't change anything |
| 03:58.47 | cogwheel | it's a fallacy to conclude that it's cause/effect from examples |
| 03:58.51 | cogwheel | like that |
| 03:59.04 | cogwheel | at least for such a broad statement |
| 03:59.07 | SqueeG | so... you're saying cause / effect is just a logical fallacy? :p |
| 03:59.10 | cogwheel | no |
| 03:59.23 | SqueeG | because it's proven true several times |
| 03:59.25 | cogwheel | i'm saying that just because something follows another thing doesn't mean there is cause and effect in the first place |
| 03:59.32 | *** join/#wowuidev newbie1 (~ckknight@c-68-62-172-239.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 03:59.35 | SqueeG | you could argue that once |
| 03:59.38 | SqueeG | possibly twice |
| 03:59.56 | SqueeG | but higher taxes , regardless of spending, hurts economic growth |
| 03:59.59 | cogwheel | the validity of the argument doesn't diminish because of the number of times it's used |
| 04:00.07 | cogwheel | yes |
| 04:00.19 | SqueeG | lower taxes AND balanced spending, lead to growth |
| 04:00.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (amarande@68-191-37-155.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 04:00.32 | Amarande | Dammit, Blizzard. |
| 04:00.47 | cogwheel | and you take unquestioningly the assumption that economic growth is the best thing to strive for |
| 04:00.52 | cogwheel | (hidden assumption) |
| 04:01.11 | cogwheel | more economic growth = better |
| 04:01.14 | cogwheel | has never been proven true |
| 04:01.16 | Amarande | cogwheel: people are so Earth elemental sometimes. :| |
| 04:01.17 | SqueeG | Yes, yes i do |
| 04:01.29 | SqueeG | because with out it, we are not competative any more |
| 04:01.37 | SqueeG | not being competative means our nation is weaker |
| 04:01.38 | cogwheel | SqueeG: false dichotomy |
| 04:01.46 | cogwheel | and appeal to emotion |
| 04:02.00 | cogwheel | "our nation is weaker" is a meaningless dick-waving argument |
| 04:02.02 | SqueeG | economic growth in an american system does = better |
| 04:02.19 | Amarande | also, Squee ... economic growth might make one inherently stronger in a pure, cold logical sense, but there is more to life than cold logicality |
| 04:02.19 | SqueeG | economic growth in ... maybe a communist system may not |
| 04:02.28 | cogwheel | SqueeG: you're just reiterating false dichotomy |
| 04:02.32 | Amarande | there are other things important to life besides economy. |
| 04:02.47 | cogwheel | it's not either no state interference with the economy or total state interference |
| 04:02.48 | SqueeG | where am i wrong, then cog? |
| 04:02.53 | Amarande | would it do, for instance, to have the perfect economy, the perfect military, the perfect power nation, if it meant leaving behind all the things that we really live *for*? |
| 04:03.02 | Amarande | would you want, for instance, to live in the Empire? |
| 04:03.04 | SqueeG | i didn't say zero state interference is correct either |
| 04:03.06 | cogwheel | and again i don't necessarily disagree with you when looking at our CURRENT state of affairs |
| 04:03.16 | cogwheel | it's the dogmatism attached that drives me bonkers |
| 04:03.17 | SqueeG | correct regulation, and proper taxation are necessary |
| 04:03.42 | cogwheel | SqueeG: no you didn't say zero interference is correct however you implied that |
| 04:03.51 | SqueeG | that's not what i meant AT ALL |
| 04:03.55 | SqueeG | and not what I implied |
| 04:03.58 | cogwheel | no ... |
| 04:03.58 | cogwheel | gah |
| 04:04.01 | SqueeG | i was arguing for lower taxes |
| 04:04.08 | SqueeG | not the lack of |
| 04:04.19 | cogwheel | i understand you didn't mean to do it |
| 04:04.25 | cogwheel | it's something i used to do |
| 04:04.32 | Amarande | anyway, to be more topical, I was saying "Dammit, Blizzard" |
| 04:04.46 | Amarande | primarily due to the paucity of upgrade options from Nighttime for a DW frost DPS DK. :| |
| 04:05.13 | SqueeG | DKs sound a bit awkward in cata |
| 04:05.14 | cogwheel | SqueeG: i made a statement and you used something as a counterexample. |
| 04:05.22 | cogwheel | all i'm doing is pointing out a flaw in your use of that counterexample |
| 04:05.47 | SqueeG | you're stating that recurring historical evidence isn't valid |
| 04:05.54 | Amarande | Squee: ehh, the only thing that bothers me about being a DPS DK is that most DPS are going to be wanted to bring CC, and DKs probably have the weakest CC as DPS of the classes |
| 04:06.13 | Amarande | we have a ... gradually fading slow, I think that's about it :S |
| 04:06.19 | cogwheel | SqueeG: "this happened then that happened, therefore this caused that" is not historical evidence |
| 04:06.25 | cogwheel | dig deeper |
| 04:06.29 | SqueeG | the return to fighting the group for aggro is going to give me an aneurism, i foresee this |
| 04:06.42 | Amarande | cogwheel: that's called "post hoc ergo propter hoc" in fact, and is a fallacy :) |
| 04:06.56 | SqueeG | this haoppened, that happened was directly related :p |
| 04:07.07 | cogwheel | SqueeG: "because with out it, we are not competative any more" |
| 04:07.14 | SqueeG | ah |
| 04:07.19 | Amarande | Squee: "cum hoc ergo propter hoc" is also a fallacy |
| 04:07.23 | cogwheel | you acted as if I was saying there shouldn't be economic growth |
| 04:07.28 | cogwheel | Amarande: yeah i said that earlier |
| 04:07.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Ressia (~valwws@CPE002129d9fabf-CM0014e88eec26.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 04:08.15 | cogwheel | That's what i was trying to point out as being a false dichotomy |
| 04:08.30 | SqueeG | a healthy economy is required for a healthy nation |
| 04:08.42 | cogwheel | yes. |
| 04:08.59 | cogwheel | but you define healthy as growing as fast as possible without interference |
| 04:09.05 | SqueeG | no |
| 04:09.20 | SqueeG | that 8sin't* what i said at all |
| 04:09.22 | cogwheel | s/without/little/ |
| 04:09.32 | cogwheel | or something |
| 04:09.56 | cogwheel | SqueeG: it was embedded in all your points earlier |
| 04:10.01 | SqueeG | there's a lot more to the thought process |
| 04:10.10 | cogwheel | yes i know |
| 04:10.11 | SqueeG | especially where governement is involved |
| 04:10.13 | cogwheel | i've been there |
| 04:10.35 | cogwheel | i signed up with the free state project |
| 04:10.40 | Amarande | hmm ... is the desire to pug TOGC25 something that they need to come up with medication for? :| |
| 04:11.00 | Amarande | I'm finding myself wanting to pug it right about now :S |
| 04:11.23 | cogwheel | i'm saying the actual evidence isn't there |
| 04:11.44 | Amarande | mostly because anub's axe is about the only good upgrade for me right now while I'm saved to icc |
| 04:11.47 | cogwheel | there are a lot of "just so" stories tossed about |
| 04:12.08 | cogwheel | I discovered this while trying to write up a rationalist defense of anarcho-capitalism |
| 04:12.35 | SqueeG | ehhh |
| 04:12.46 | SqueeG | i've always argued against anarchy |
| 04:12.59 | SqueeG | but |
| 04:13.01 | cogwheel | most people misinterpret "anarchy" anyway... |
| 04:13.03 | kd3 | ohho... |
| 04:13.13 | SqueeG | eh, i was a punk kid, i get it |
| 04:13.13 | kd3 | that's what the big second portion of tonight's build is |
| 04:13.16 | kd3 | the goblin cinematic |
| 04:13.35 | cogwheel | data files or active? |
| 04:13.37 | Ressy | is the streaming for anyone else? |
| 04:13.49 | kd3 | data files... 40402168 byes |
| 04:13.55 | SqueeG | a good deal of america's frame work was built on keeping our civilization as close to anarchy as possible with out hitting the edge |
| 04:14.14 | Amarande | "that government which governs least governs best" |
| 04:14.20 | cogwheel | indeed |
| 04:14.28 | SqueeG | right on amarande |
| 04:14.34 | kd3 | though... what the hell is 'pmvx'? |
| 04:14.36 | cogwheel | the problem is that people take those platitudes too seriously |
| 04:14.44 | cogwheel | and here we are again at the dogma discussion |
| 04:15.23 | Ressy | Anyone else trying to log in, and crashing? |
| 04:15.47 | SqueeG | cogwheel |
| 04:15.57 | SqueeG | that's called extremism... and is recognized as a bad thing |
| 04:15.59 | SqueeG | BUT! |
| 04:16.11 | SqueeG | right now, people are being painted as extremist..... and aren't |
| 04:16.24 | SqueeG | there is also the angle of 'the enemy of my enemy' |
| 04:16.28 | Amarande | on a random topic meanwhile: why do poker players constantly fidget with their chips? |
| 04:16.29 | cogwheel | that's a HUGE red herring |
| 04:17.16 | cogwheel | Amarande: why do people fidget with anything? |
| 04:17.28 | SqueeG | to try and cover their 'tells' :p |
| 04:17.29 | cogwheel | safer than fidgeting with your cards ;) |
| 04:17.33 | kd3 | ahahaha |
| 04:17.43 | kd3 | login tip: "Click on the Lightwell!" |
| 04:17.46 | kd3 | and hm... an assert |
| 04:17.49 | cogwheel | haha |
| 04:18.01 | Amarande | kd3: why are they promoting the lightwell :) |
| 04:18.08 | Amarande | or should we say failwell |
| 04:18.12 | SqueeG | because no one uses it :p |
| 04:18.23 | Amarande | lightwell and fail angel form ... two reasons to spec disc. |
| 04:18.32 | SqueeG | i <3 disc |
| 04:18.47 | Amarande | Disc still as super awesome in PvE in Cata as it is now? |
| 04:19.06 | Amarande | I haven't really gotten to look at the priest trees yet |
| 04:19.08 | Dagmar | Not true. I saw a lightwell in Dalaran the other day. |
| 04:19.19 | Dagmar | I was disappointed when I clicked on it. |
| 04:19.23 | Dagmar | I expected a drink. |
| 04:19.33 | Amarande | passes Dagmar a shot of Captain |
| 04:19.37 | Dagmar | Looks like a big novelty cup of champaigne |
| 04:19.43 | Amarande | there. have a drink. :) |
| 04:19.47 | Dagmar | heh |
| 04:20.10 | Amarande | and Dagmar, am I right that while saved to both ICC the only real option for me to upgrade Nighttime on frost DW DPS is by somehow getting into TO(G)C25? |
| 04:20.17 | Dagmar | The person who put it there wasn't amused by me asking why there was no booze in it |
| 04:20.30 | kd3 | ah, of course |
| 04:20.32 | Dagmar | Amarande; Probably. Weapons are kinda suck right now |
| 04:20.33 | kd3 | "delete both caches" |
| 04:20.40 | Amarande | and not only that, but a TOGC25 PUG that manages to down Anub :| |
| 04:20.41 | Amarande | gah. |
| 04:21.03 | Dagmar | Amarande: You could always scour the loot lists for Ulduar (not likely) and ICC |
| 04:21.05 | kd3 | ...you'd think they'd program that during the tools go-around... |
| 04:21.15 | Amarande | I looked at the PvP weapons, but 1) the stats suck for pve except maybe for tanks, 2) there's not enough time to get enough arena points now, most likely, and 3) I'm DEFINITELY not getting anywhere near 1800 rating anytime soon. |
| 04:21.26 | kd3 | oh, ack. cloth chests have durability again |
| 04:21.35 | Amarande | Ulduar ... that's going to be lower ilvl than Nighttime except maybe for Algalon 25, no? |
| 04:22.14 | Amarande | and I know what's available from ICC, but I'm currently saved to 10 on a lockout we're keeping, probably, till we down LK |
| 04:22.22 | Amarande | and I did 25 this week too |
| 04:22.41 | cogwheel | SqueeG: i think the point we've both been missing is that yes; more economic growth definitely benefits society. However, it's not the ONLY way to benefit society. Sometimes sacrificing economic growth gets you other benefits that simply make the world a better place for everyone. |
| 04:22.53 | Amarande | not to mention even ICC has a paucity of suitable weapons for my spec, the only ones I can think of are the axe from lootship 10, the sword from saurfang 25, and the axe from LK 25 |
| 04:23.04 | SqueeG | i think people have been blinded by 'government helps' |
| 04:23.25 | SqueeG | when, on a federal level, it does not |
| 04:23.31 | cogwheel | SqueeG: i think people have been blinded by 'government never helps' too |
| 04:23.32 | SqueeG | it's too far removed from the problems |
| 04:23.46 | SqueeG | government should do what it's designed to do |
| 04:23.51 | cogwheel | no |
| 04:24.03 | cogwheel | or, yes, |
| 04:24.09 | cogwheel | but the design needs to change sometimes |
| 04:24.12 | SqueeG | you sound like you support healthcare |
| 04:24.24 | Amarande | I wonder if cata will have better choices of weapons for DW frost |
| 04:24.30 | cogwheel | i'm still ambivalent actually |
| 04:24.32 | Amarande | or if it's just going to be the end of the road for my DK |
| 04:24.38 | cogwheel | but compare http://www.heritage.org/index/Ranking.aspx |
| 04:24.44 | cogwheel | with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index |
| 04:25.06 | cogwheel | clearly countries with more government interference are perfectly capable of producing productive, happy societies |
| 04:25.33 | SqueeG | productive societies |
| 04:25.42 | SqueeG | happy is not something i'd equate to china |
| 04:25.53 | cogwheel | ... |
| 04:26.04 | cogwheel | what's that have to do with anything? |
| 04:26.26 | cogwheel | china is low on both lists |
| 04:26.37 | SqueeG | Isn't hong cong chinese controlled now? |
| 04:26.38 | Corrodias | don't use logic on me |
| 04:26.50 | SqueeG | holy crap |
| 04:26.51 | SqueeG | kong* |
| 04:26.52 | Amarande | Squee: the Chinese were probably ordered by the government to check off "happy" or get sent to work camps :| |
| 04:26.54 | cogwheel | SqueeG: in the same way hong kong was "controlled" by the british imo |
| 04:27.00 | Amarande | it's a "work is better than the booterang" scenario basically :S |
| 04:28.26 | cogwheel | the right wing acts as if society will come crumbling down around us if we institute universal health care |
| 04:28.39 | cogwheel | clearly that's not the case |
| 04:28.39 | SqueeG | because it's not the best way to do it, cog |
| 04:28.46 | SqueeG | it's a failing system everywhere else |
| 04:28.49 | cogwheel | no |
| 04:28.57 | SqueeG | ... |
| 04:29.00 | cogwheel | that's what fox news tells you |
| 04:29.07 | cogwheel | and lewrockwell.com |
| 04:29.09 | cogwheel | and mises.org |
| 04:29.10 | SqueeG | some of the biggest coutnries using it are cutting it back, and looking fro ways to get rid of it |
| 04:29.16 | SqueeG | for* |
| 04:29.23 | Corrodias | do either of you have evidence to back up your claims? |
| 04:29.27 | SqueeG | I saw how the NHS in scotland works first hand |
| 04:29.36 | SqueeG | I didn't like it |
| 04:29.46 | cogwheel | Corrodias: 21:24 < cogwheel> but compare http://www.heritage.org/index/Ranking.aspx |
| 04:29.50 | cogwheel | 21:24 < cogwheel> with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index |
| 04:30.04 | SqueeG | grease (greese? ... i can never remember) was told to DITCH their UHS system in order to get their bailout |
| 04:30.14 | Amarande | Greece, you mean? |
| 04:30.26 | SqueeG | yes, thank you |
| 04:30.52 | SqueeG | I don't know why my brain came to a screeching halt on that |
| 04:30.55 | Amarande | yeah the way their economy is going they'd better look up the basic-ness of old Spartan culture 'cause they're gonna be living it soon enough |
| 04:31.01 | cogwheel | SqueeG: when an economy is failing you have to do drastic things to fix it... how does that prove that our economy will fail if we get universal health care? |
| 04:31.17 | SqueeG | because it's a HUGE financial burden |
| 04:31.19 | SqueeG | and it's poltiical |
| 04:31.21 | Amarande | besides, what's the worst that can happen if the economy fails? sooner or later we pick up the pieces and move on |
| 04:31.23 | SqueeG | political* |
| 04:31.36 | Amarande | entire CIVILIZATIONS have failed in the past, humanity has always been resilient enough to pick up the pieces and move on |
| 04:31.37 | SqueeG | do you want POLITICIANS deciciding your health care benefits? |
| 04:31.43 | cogwheel | "huge financial burden" ... "sacrifice" |
| 04:31.52 | kd3 | last time I checked... it's not politicians making those decisions |
| 04:31.55 | cogwheel | pointing out points i make doesn't argue against me :P |
| 04:32.08 | SqueeG | shit |
| 04:32.16 | SqueeG | they can't even rund medicaid/care well |
| 04:32.32 | SqueeG | no, you're right kd3 |
| 04:32.38 | SqueeG | it's an executively appointed official |
| 04:32.57 | SqueeG | so the person in charge isn't even elected |
| 04:33.21 | SqueeG | most of the bill that has been passed refers to the appointed official for it's regulations |
| 04:33.27 | SqueeG | that can be changed at whim |
| 04:34.03 | SqueeG | and to make it the worst |
| 04:34.06 | SqueeG | shurr grammar |
| 04:34.20 | SqueeG | it's federally administrated |
| 04:34.36 | SqueeG | federal government is the farthest removed from the electorate |
| 04:34.52 | SqueeG | most states have a hard time controlling their state government |
| 04:35.16 | SqueeG | argh, instances and debate don't mix |
| 04:36.37 | cogwheel | SqueeG: i agree re: federal government |
| 04:36.46 | ccox | ... and world server goes down |
| 04:36.48 | SqueeG | There's so much wrong with the bill that passed |
| 04:36.51 | cogwheel | states need more autonomy |
| 04:36.58 | SqueeG | I agree we need to help reform health care |
| 04:37.07 | SqueeG | but the government needs a small a role as possible |
| 04:37.15 | SqueeG | as small* |
| 04:37.34 | SqueeG | i don't want to be voting for people so i can retain certain benefits/coverages/etcv |
| 04:37.39 | Ressy | hooray for EK being a yoyo. |
| 04:38.02 | ccox | SqueeG: so you think that insurance companies can do much better on their own? |
| 04:38.08 | SqueeG | they compete |
| 04:38.14 | SqueeG | so yes, they can |
| 04:38.21 | ccox | SqueeG: and that they won't do ANY of the nasty things theyve been doing to their customers for years? |
| 04:38.32 | SqueeG | their costs for THE SAME TREATMENT are lower than compared to medicare/aid |
| 04:38.33 | ccox | they don't compete, they collude, that's part of the problem |
| 04:38.51 | SqueeG | ccox: I never said they're perfect |
| 04:39.01 | SqueeG | but better than an overbearing gov't monopoly |
| 04:39.18 | cogwheel | SqueeG: another thing that bugs me is when Europhiles argue against state rights movements... |
| 04:39.23 | Amarande | ccox: and yet competition opens another can of worms |
| 04:39.27 | Amarande | full-on competition leads to price war |
| 04:39.29 | ccox | and yet we have no government monopoly - we struck a balance between universal health care and insurance |
| 04:39.35 | Amarande | price war leads to downspirals on profits |
| 04:39.39 | Amarande | downspirals on profits lead to lost jobs |
| 04:39.49 | Amarande | lost jobs lead to ... the need for more government spending to provide stopgaps |
| 04:39.59 | ccox | some people want pure insurance - let the poor suffer, and let the market decide everything for them |
| 04:40.08 | SqueeG | amarande: false |
| 04:40.12 | ccox | others want pure universal health care provided by the government |
| 04:40.28 | Amarande | Squee: um, whenever companies' profits drop, or losses increase, the reaction is almost always to cut rank and file employees |
| 04:40.37 | SqueeG | that's bad business then |
| 04:40.38 | cogwheel | SqueeG: 'cause the system europe has of independent nations loosely bound economically is exactly what states rights supporters want |
| 04:40.43 | ccox | we're still in the middle, but edging away from letting insurance companies control our health care |
| 04:41.03 | Ressy | sob. I can't finish my bug report without the damned server crashing again. |
| 04:41.07 | Amarande | Squee: and by definition, true competition results in cyclic undercutting, aka price war, which naturally results in less money coming into the companies as they're trying to keep customers, with the result that *profits drop and losses increase* |
| 04:41.12 | SqueeG | my opinion is that we should move back to people paying out of pocket for the evcery day stuff |
| 04:41.20 | SqueeG | and get back to KNOWING what you're paying for |
| 04:41.30 | SqueeG | with insurance of government, the customer is removed from the equation |
| 04:41.36 | SqueeG | and the middlemen wheel and deal |
| 04:41.37 | cogwheel | SqueeG: knowing what you're paying for requires education and regulation |
| 04:42.06 | ccox | and assumes that some party doesn't try to control your access to care or information (like, say, a company intent on profit) |
| 04:42.17 | SqueeG | knowing what you're paying for requires you to get a bill |
| 04:42.36 | SqueeG | insurance company profit is really low, as is |
| 04:42.57 | SqueeG | profit isn't evil, guys |
| 04:43.05 | cogwheel | agrees |
| 04:43.09 | ccox | SqueeG: really? Can't tell that from their yearly reports. |
| 04:43.13 | ccox | profit isn't evil |
| 04:43.17 | kd3 | I would hazard a guess that most of us work for for-profit companies |
| 04:43.20 | kd3 | no, profit isn't evil |
| 04:43.29 | SqueeG | ccox most insurance companies run a... 1 -3 % profit |
| 04:43.31 | kd3 | screwing over people just to maintain the bottom line is |
| 04:43.32 | ccox | making a profit by hurting others, is evil |
| 04:43.45 | SqueeG | yes, soulless capitalism is evil |
| 04:43.56 | Corrodias | that's kind of the definition of evil as far as i can tell |
| 04:44.12 | ccox | and right now, we have many insurance companies that exist to maximize profit, by screwing people |
| 04:44.22 | ccox | and the free market isn't helping correct that |
| 04:44.31 | ccox | so, what other force can correct it? |
| 04:44.31 | Amarande | ccox: well, of course the free market isn't helping correct that |
| 04:44.33 | cogwheel | the problem is that the nature of insurance transactions provides a direct motivation to hurt people in order to profit |
| 04:44.52 | Amarande | isn't the very definition of business acumen, managing to make sure the deal is slanted as much towards you as possible? |
| 04:45.23 | ccox | Amarande: that depends on the viewpoint |
| 04:45.29 | SqueeG | the real problem is that people want insurance to cover EVERYTHING |
| 04:45.39 | SqueeG | from the sniffles to car accidents |
| 04:45.51 | cogwheel | that too |
| 04:45.54 | ccox | Amarande: you get different results if you focus on short term or long term profit, or factor in the effect on the customers/community |
| 04:45.56 | Amarande | ccox: that's basically how business works, the idea is to get as much as you can while giving as little as you can without losing the deal |
| 04:46.03 | SqueeG | THAT is one of the big problems |
| 04:46.12 | Amarande | at least *pure* business |
| 04:46.12 | ccox | Amarande: that's the math, not the situation |
| 04:46.40 | ccox | Amarande: where things go wrong is when people focus on short term gains, and ignore consequences |
| 04:46.40 | Amarande | Squee: well, admittedly, there is one problem there with "the sniffles" |
| 04:46.57 | Amarande | there are so many diseases these days that begin with the sniffles and by the time you get serious symptoms you're too close to dropping dead for doctors to be able to do much |
| 04:47.07 | Amarande | all those "flu-like symptoms" diseases |
| 04:47.09 | SqueeG | good business is ensureing customer loyalty |
| 04:47.10 | Corrodias | aye |
| 04:47.10 | SqueeG | or |
| 04:47.13 | SqueeG | return customers |
| 04:47.26 | Amarande | Squee: yeah, that's why I said "as little as you can without losing the deal" |
| 04:47.27 | ccox | then by that definition, current health insurance isn't good business |
| 04:47.28 | cogwheel | SqueeG: it's definitely one of the big problems. And insurance companies aren't going to educate them about it. |
| 04:47.33 | Amarande | if you screw over the customer too badly, you're not going to keep the customer |
| 04:47.35 | cogwheel | they just want their premiums |
| 04:47.44 | Amarande | they'll decide to save hundreds of dollars on their car insurance by switching to Geico :) |
| 04:47.47 | SqueeG | ccox : it can't be, the expectations have gotten out of hand |
| 04:48.32 | ccox | SqueeG: it could be, if they wanted to deal with the long term consequences |
| 04:48.43 | Amarande | cogwheel: well there's also some industries that are pretty much built on having negative long term consequences on the customer |
| 04:48.48 | Amarande | the tobacco industry, for instance |
| 04:48.51 | SqueeG | health insurance has almost turned into life insurance |
| 04:48.56 | ccox | but current corporate leaders are almost exclusively focussed on short term gains, and ignoring customers and consequences |
| 04:49.07 | cogwheel | Amarande: no. that's just a side effect |
| 04:49.15 | Amarande | the tobacco industry, pretty much has the choice of either "let's keep pushing this stuff that kills people" or "let's all go out there into the great yonder of unemployment in the 21st century" |
| 04:49.20 | cogwheel | they're selling a physical product to people that happens to be harmful |
| 04:49.27 | ccox | Amarande: yep |
| 04:49.42 | SqueeG | it's the person's choice to buy it |
| 04:49.43 | ccox | Same applies to alcohol, cars, motorcycles, etc. |
| 04:49.47 | SqueeG | we all know smoking is dangerous |
| 04:49.49 | Amarande | actually, it also occurs to me that if they ever find cures for certain things, it might come back to bite our asses in the end |
| 04:49.52 | cogwheel | insurance companies rely on people's ineptitude with statistics and legalese |
| 04:49.59 | cogwheel | to get them to buy a "service" |
| 04:50.05 | ccox | Amarande: yes, many sci-fi writers have had the same idea :-) |
| 04:50.07 | Amarande | if we find cures for the big things ... we'll get lots of cheering from sick people and their families in the beginning |
| 04:50.14 | cogwheel | if they do a good job with their service fine |
| 04:50.23 | cogwheel | it doesn't harm anyone |
| 04:50.23 | Amarande | Then we'll start finding us with a bad nagging feeling that we didn't quite get it all right |
| 04:50.36 | Corrodias | get what all right? what are you talking about? |
| 04:50.44 | SqueeG | inexpensive cures actually help inruance companies |
| 04:50.45 | Ressy | nice.. They increased XP gained for gathering professions. |
| 04:50.49 | SqueeG | it means they need to dole out less |
| 04:51.00 | Amarande | Then a couple more decades pass and we realize that people are living even longer, while meanwhile there's even less work to do because large swathes of research have been completed and no longer need people to do them |
| 04:51.30 | Amarande | which then leaves us with even more of one of our current salient problems, the fact that more people live for more time while the growth of resource production is not really keeping up |
| 04:51.42 | Amarande | eventually, the ratio of resources required to resources producable reaches one |
| 04:51.45 | Amarande | and then passes one |
| 04:51.53 | Amarande | and then there simply IS NO WAY to save anything |
| 04:52.00 | Corrodias | omg we're all gonna diea |
| 04:52.14 | Dagmar | Correction: YOU're all going to die, |
| 04:52.15 | cogwheel | nah, only a good portion... |
| 04:52.15 | Amarande | once the required:produceable ratio goes above one, all paths are losing ones. |
| 04:52.31 | cogwheel | i'm sure it will be a pendulum over the millenia |
| 04:52.41 | Corrodias | get the religious and ethnic families to stop producing 20 kids |
| 04:52.46 | cogwheel | ^ |
| 04:52.47 | Amarande | well, it would certainly end the current age of civilisation, anyway |
| 04:52.47 | Corrodias | that's all it takes, man |
| 04:52.54 | Amarande | and start the next dark age |
| 04:53.17 | Amarande | granted, with digital storage we probably won't lose all our knowledge like we did after Rome, but we might go a long time without being able to make much use of it since we're too busy surviving |
| 04:53.49 | SqueeG | actually |
| 04:53.56 | SqueeG | in developed countries |
| 04:53.57 | Amarande | and some of it will probably be lost to optical media rot. |
| 04:54.10 | SqueeG | those huge families are the only thing ensuring we have any popilation growth at all :p |
| 04:54.16 | Corrodias | Amarande, you are good at this overreacting stuff |
| 04:54.16 | Dagmar | WHat's this optical media rot you speak of? |
| 04:54.19 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 04:54.19 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 04:54.20 | Amarande | history will fade to legend, legend will fade to myth, and even myth will be long forgotten when the Age that gave birth to it comes again. |
| 04:54.25 | Dagmar | Corrodias++ |
| 04:54.28 | Amarande | Dagmar: the fact that CDs, DVDs, etc. don't last forever |
| 04:54.33 | cogwheel | SqueeG: assuming population growth is a good thing |
| 04:54.39 | Amarande | and if we're too busy surviving to maintain copies of everything, some stuff will be lost to that decay |
| 04:54.39 | SqueeG | well |
| 04:54.43 | Dagmar | Amarande: There was talk if this back in the 80s |
| 04:54.55 | SqueeG | if you want social security, it is, cog ;() |
| 04:54.56 | SqueeG | ;) |
| 04:54.58 | Amarande | particularly if we ever have a total collapse that takes centuries to emerge from |
| 04:55.01 | Dagmar | If the talk were correct, I'm pretty sure a lot of my CDs should no longer work. |
| 04:55.01 | cogwheel | SqueeG: hah |
| 04:55.05 | cogwheel | social security is a pos |
| 04:55.10 | Corrodias | it takes longer than 30 years |
| 04:55.13 | Dagmar | THey were saying the things were only going to be good for 8-15 years |
| 04:55.15 | Corrodias | 40+, last rumor i heard |
| 04:55.17 | Amarande | Dagmar: well yeah I was talking over a time frame of maybe centuries or more |
| 04:55.31 | Amarande | consider say the length of the last Dark Ages after Rome fell before civilisation got back on its feet again |
| 04:55.34 | Corrodias | they can't actually test how long they last; they can only "simulate" it with high heat and humidity |
| 04:55.49 | Amarande | how long was it between 476 AD and the Renaissance? |
| 04:55.50 | Dagmar | Amarande: So why, since this media is infinitely reproduceable, would we not continue re-archiving this in a more and more compressed format? |
| 04:55.56 | Dagmar | s/compressed/dense/ |
| 04:56.00 | cogwheel | SqueeG: we should just send them all to florida to fend for themselves |
| 04:56.08 | SqueeG | cogwheel: lol |
| 04:56.09 | Amarande | Dagmar: as long as civilisation has the means to afford to do so, we will |
| 04:56.14 | Dagmar | Amarande: ABout 800 years-ish |
| 04:56.16 | Corrodias | we're too busy avoiding the rape gangs to upload our stuff to the federation database |
| 04:56.35 | Amarande | Dagmar: however, if it falls apart to the point that we go another 800 years too busy surviving to make use of much higher knowledge, we might not have the resources to maintain at least some of it |
| 04:56.42 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@adsl-41-126-135.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 04:56.42 | Wobin | cogwheel: haha, I see you found Tim Minchin |
| 04:56.59 | cogwheel | Wobin: oldnews! |
| 04:57.09 | cogwheel | Storm was the first time i heard him |
| 04:57.17 | Wobin | <3 Storm |
| 04:57.18 | Dagmar | Amarande: Dude, 800 years from now the Intermind will ba handling that anyway |
| 04:57.40 | Amarande | also, speaking of history fading to legend, legend fading to myth, etc., apparently the next Wheel of Time book is projected to come out the same day that Cata is currently predicted to come out. |
| 04:57.47 | Dagmar | We'll probably see a few rogue AIs in our lifetime at the rate things are going |
| 04:57.54 | cogwheel | Corrodias: speaking of ST:TNG, mrs. cog and i went to a small anime con with a voice actress who was also a regular extra in ST |
| 04:57.59 | Amarande | Which I guess is just squee worthy, since it means I have something to do while I wait for all my addons to be properly updated. |
| 04:58.03 | Dagmar | Amarande: Well, there's still time to put a stop to that |
| 04:58.29 | Dagmar | That's entirely too many books of just running from place to place, hiding, and saying "is the end of hte world here yet?" |
| 04:58.39 | cogwheel | she got wil wheaton grounded once |
| 04:58.48 | Dagmar | BUT AS LONG AS YOU KEEP BUYING THE DAMN THINGS... |
| 04:58.49 | Wobin | cogwheel: He's... ridiculously eloquent for a song that's 85% 'motherfucker' |
| 04:58.56 | cogwheel | i no rite? |
| 04:59.08 | Wobin | rap artists should take notes |
| 05:01.28 | Corrodias | cogwheel: that is sweet. |
| 05:01.31 | Amarande | Dagmar: there's definitely only the two more books |
| 05:01.51 | Amarande | there was going to be in fact only 12 books, the only reason we're getting books 13 and 14 is because book 12 as originally written was far too large for publisher standards |
| 05:02.08 | Amarande | it would have been, like, 1800-2000 pages long, which publishers pretty much only relish for reference volumes |
| 05:02.21 | Corrodias | i hope he got spanked, too |
| 05:02.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Antiarc (~Antiarc@ip70-190-192-186.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 05:04.24 | Amarande | Dagmar: note that even such books as War and Peace don't quite even come to 1500. |
| 05:04.46 | Amarande | so yeah ... books 12-14 can be thought of as pretty much one loooooong book split up into manageable chunks |
| 05:06.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh`` (~funk@82.111.127.167) |
| 05:08.16 | Wobin | ps yarr |
| 05:08.20 | Dagmar | That's about 10 books too many. |
| 05:09.05 | Amarande | On the other hand, it would be nowhere near as long as Marienbad My Love. |
| 05:09.11 | Dagmar | ...and let's not forget, THE ORIGINAL AUTHOR DIED. |
| 05:09.18 | Dagmar | Three years ago! |
| 05:09.34 | Dagmar | They're just fucking the skull of a francise at this point |
| 05:09.37 | Amarande | But Marienbad My Love is just fucked up. It's 17 million words long, and includes *one sentence* that is over 3 million words long. |
| 05:09.51 | Amarande | Man, that must be fun to read. |
| 05:09.59 | Amarande | "Honey, come to bed!" "Just as soon as I finish this sentence!" |
| 05:10.28 | Amarande | To put this into perspective: The Tale of Genji and War and Peace PUT TOGETHER come to only a bit over a million words. :) |
| 05:10.30 | SqueeG | the author of wheel of time died? |
| 05:10.30 | Dagmar | Imagine if LOTR was actually 10 books long, and they hadn't even gotten to Mordor yet |
| 05:10.37 | Torhal | SqueeG: Yes |
| 05:10.40 | Dagmar | There's this thing called pacing... WoT lacks it. |
| 05:10.44 | Amarande | Dagmar: actually they pretty much got to Mordor in the first book |
| 05:10.47 | SqueeG | Oh shit |
| 05:10.48 | Amarande | Mordor would basically be the Blight |
| 05:10.54 | SqueeG | I thought he was younger than gygax xD |
| 05:11.02 | Dagmar | Amarande: Reading fail |
| 05:11.03 | Amarande | Squee: I think he WAS younger than Gygax. :( |
| 05:11.06 | Torhal | Robert Jordan had an immuodeficiency disease |
| 05:11.10 | Amarande | (Who is also dead. Sadness.) |
| 05:11.15 | Torhal | immunodeficeicy |
| 05:11.18 | SqueeG | well snap |
| 05:11.30 | Dagmar | Torhal: Stop while you're ahead |
| 05:11.36 | Torhal | Dagmar: NEIN! |
| 05:11.37 | SqueeG | lol |
| 05:11.41 | SqueeG | Immunodeficiency |
| 05:11.42 | Dagmar | ...or at least close. That word's not worth it. |
| 05:11.52 | SqueeG | wow |
| 05:12.03 | Torhal | Antidisestablishmentarianism, it is not. |
| 05:12.06 | Amarande | He had Amyloidosis. |
| 05:12.19 | Amarande | It causes bits of solid protein to get deposited places they shouldn't, in his case his heart. |
| 05:12.57 | Amarande | Alzheimer's brain deposits are fairly closely related. |
| 05:13.10 | Amarande | (And just as fatal, over time.) |
| 05:13.44 | SqueeG | O.O |
| 05:14.10 | cogwheel | "He's an enemy of women, barring them from the priesthood as though a penis were an essential tool for pastoral duties" XD |
| 05:14.29 | Amarande | cogwheel: heh. what did I say to my raid tonight? |
| 05:14.33 | Amarande | priest was saying he wasn't the pope |
| 05:14.39 | Amarande | and then I quipped "I think the pope specs shadow" |
| 05:14.44 | SqueeG | lol |
| 05:14.45 | cogwheel | lulz |
| 05:15.09 | Amarande | btw do shadowies still have to spec into shadowform or is it the "specialization perk" now? |
| 05:15.43 | Amarande | i.e., I've noticed in 4.0 you get a couple of talent type things just by having selected the tree before you even actually put points in, as opposed to them actually being investable talents like they used to be |
| 05:16.10 | Amarande | but I haven't looked at the trees for priesty beasties yet |
| 05:16.23 | Amarande | actually I've really only firsthand looked at the DK talent trees |
| 05:19.35 | cogwheel | mind flay |
| 05:20.00 | cogwheel | is the shadow spec spell you get |
| 05:21.08 | cogwheel | i heartily approve |
| 05:21.40 | Amarande | also, have they made 10-39 a less painful slog for shadowies? |
| 05:21.41 | Jerub | someone tell blizz they can't release 4.0.1 this tuesday |
| 05:21.46 | cogwheel | can't wait to start my minipriest |
| 05:22.05 | Amarande | I remember 40-57 being pretty fun, and 10-39 being annoying as hell, especially the 30s where mobs start to gain fairly serious power but you haven't got access to shadowform yet to compensate |
| 05:22.11 | Dagmar | Jerub: I think they probably know, or they've got a wholke PILE of patches that haven't veen tested on the PTR yet |
| 05:22.24 | cogwheel | Jerub: have they *ever* had a ptr that only lasted one or two weeks? |
| 05:22.29 | cogwheel | besides critical patches |
| 05:22.40 | Amarande | 58-62 prooooobably would have been more fun if I hadn't been urged to go to outland right away |
| 05:22.52 | Amarande | actually, come to think of it, I'm starting to think that currently, the best thing to do |
| 05:23.03 | Jerub | i'm at sindy on an icc10 that i'm continuing next week |
| 05:23.13 | Jerub | can't have my gear stuffed up before my shot at the LK |
| 05:23.15 | cogwheel | Jerub: the ptr isn't close to ready |
| 05:23.29 | Amarande | might be to go to outland at 58, get your first set of quest gear upgrades, then go back to Azeroth and curbstomp the plaguelands, winterspring and silithus then come back to hellfire now that one's 62-63 :) |
| 05:24.14 | Amarande | might be an especially attractive thing to do as an enchanter, given that you can turn all those green quest rewards into GEE that usually sells really well |
| 05:24.23 | Kraps | the new water is on the ptr |
| 05:24.29 | Dagmar | Raiding would be a hoot with pets randomly going aggro |
| 05:24.39 | Amarande | Jerub: I know your feeling |
| 05:24.40 | cogwheel | Amarande: the biggest leveling experience changes will come with cata |
| 05:24.49 | Amarande | we're extending our lockout this week too so we can keep stabbing at LK without having to redo up to sindy |
| 05:25.11 | Amarande | cogwheel: yeah, now you're going to practically be forced to go to outland at 59-60 and stay there |
| 05:25.19 | Amarande | because it looks like they've almost completely gotten rid of 55-60 old world content |
| 05:25.24 | Amarande | winterspring and silithus, that's it? |
| 05:25.40 | Amarande | at least if I remember kd3's zone list |
| 05:25.47 | cogwheel | unfinished perhaps? |
| 05:25.57 | kd3 | http://www.wowwiki.com/User:Kaydeethree/zones |
| 05:26.09 | kd3 | there's 2 level 55-60 zones instead of... 6? |
| 05:26.30 | Amarande | well it was always only winterspring, silithus, burning steppes, blasted lands, and plaguelands, to begin with |
| 05:26.39 | Amarande | plaguelands are MASSIVELY nerfed, and so is BS |
| 05:26.46 | cogwheel | oh you're just talking about the level ranges... i thought you meant they got rid of the zones >< |
| 05:27.03 | Amarande | cogwheel: yeah, there's going to be really, really little content from 55 to 60 pre outland |
| 05:27.13 | Amarande | which basically means they're practically forcing us to the "go at 58" strategy :( |
| 05:27.26 | cogwheel | what's wrong with that? |
| 05:27.27 | kd3 | says who? if the zone's designed 55-60... you'll hit 60 |
| 05:27.33 | cogwheel | and that |
| 05:27.43 | Amarande | cogwheel: I really, really don't like going to outland at 58 |
| 05:27.53 | Amarande | the main thing that bothers me is aggro |
| 05:28.00 | Amarande | at 58, your aggro radius is bigger than Tom Brady's ego |
| 05:28.00 | kd3 | so... don't? the revamped quest rewards in the old world will help |
| 05:28.05 | cogwheel | Amarande: you're assuming the leveling experience is the same |
| 05:28.08 | cogwheel | everything is different |
| 05:28.15 | cogwheel | they're specifically designing it to be very fluid |
| 05:28.23 | Amarande | cogwheel: yes, I understand the game balance in Cata is going to make it even *more* punishing to pull multiple mobs |
| 05:28.31 | Amarande | which is going to make the big aggro radius in hellfire at 58 even more hellish |
| 05:28.33 | kd3 | once you hit 65 |
| 05:28.54 | kd3 | pre-65, they're not playing with monster health/damage |
| 05:28.56 | cogwheel | Amarande: why do you keep saying 58 |
| 05:29.02 | cogwheel | why do you assume nothing else is changing but the quests? |
| 05:29.04 | Amarande | and to think at one point they wanted you to go to hyjal at 78 |
| 05:29.20 | Amarande | cogwheel: it doesn't appear they've really changed anything about outland |
| 05:29.32 | cogwheel | no, but you're assuming a ton about your own status when you get there |
| 05:29.44 | Amarande | also, do you really think aggro radius is going to be changed much? |
| 05:29.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan (~pancake@cpe-024-163-016-179.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 05:29.45 | cogwheel | who's to say you won't be covered in blues from some epic quest chain? |
| 05:29.54 | kd3 | they haven't. but you'll want to hit 60 in silithus or blasted lands before going because the capstone quest rewards will keep you from getting smashed in hfp |
| 05:30.18 | Amarande | even if you ARE covered in blues, if you go to hellfire at 58, you have to stop to fight almost every mob you even see |
| 05:30.23 | kd3 | so, don't go at 58 |
| 05:30.28 | cogwheel | ^ |
| 05:30.32 | Amarande | if you go at 62-63 like you can now, you basically get to skip most mobs that you don't need for quests |
| 05:30.40 | cogwheel | or 60... |
| 05:30.43 | cogwheel | and fly... |
| 05:30.47 | cogwheel | it's not that bad... |
| 05:30.52 | Amarande | yeah 60 might not be too bad |
| 05:30.54 | Amarande | except zeth'gor. |
| 05:31.01 | Amarande | zeth'gor is just a horrible, horrible, horrible little pit of suck. |
| 05:31.06 | kd3 | so skip it |
| 05:31.17 | cogwheel | Amarande: i hit 70 by doing hellfire, zangarmarsh, blade's edge, and most of netherstorm |
| 05:31.19 | kd3 | bc zones aren't designed to where you do every quest chain like old world zones are |
| 05:31.23 | cogwheel | starting at 58 |
| 05:31.32 | cogwheel | it's not like you HAVE to do everything |
| 05:31.33 | kd3 | anyway, zzz |
| 05:31.40 | cogwheel | if you don't like some area don't go there :P |
| 05:31.46 | Amarande | my priest hit 70 in zangar but then that's being a healer who was doing tons of instances ever since the dungeon finder came out |
| 05:31.58 | cogwheel | heh |
| 05:32.15 | cogwheel | i had too many bad experience in low level randoms |
| 05:32.18 | Amarande | and it makes up for the fact that her pre-dungeon finder life was hell on earth |
| 05:32.20 | cogwheel | +grammar |
| 05:32.32 | Amarande | I love instancing as a priest ... I *hate* solo questing as one. |
| 05:32.40 | cogwheel | shadows fine after ~40 |
| 05:32.42 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@user-11215f7.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 05:32.42 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 05:33.36 | cogwheel | Amarande: your glass is 75% empty imo ;) |
| 05:34.05 | Amarande | cogwheel: nah this is just why my warlock and DK get lots of love and my priest is still 70 |
| 05:34.44 | Amarande | despite the fact that I've already got tailoring up the point where I'm already starting to work on her "get ready for cata" 80 items |
| 05:35.13 | Amarande | since if there's one thing that beta folks have pretty much indicated for sure, it's you *realllllly* don't want to be coming to hyjal in quest greens |
| 05:35.15 | cogwheel | all of your spells and talents are going to be different. There's a lot less downtime in the old world. I don't see that changing just because the mobs are different |
| 05:35.24 | cogwheel | i did have a lot of trouble with my mage |
| 05:35.35 | Amarande | coming to hyjal in northrend quest greens, particularly as a squishy sounds like it's going to be an exercise in masochism |
| 05:35.41 | Amarande | I'm going to use northrend tailoring for all it's worth first |
| 05:36.20 | Amarande | http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Turalyon&cn=Amarelya <--- priest currently |
| 05:48.34 | Amarande | bah character copy hasn't finished yet |
| 05:48.46 | Amarande | what exactly do they do that makes it take up to 8 hours to copy a character to the PTR? |
| 05:48.51 | Amarande | you'd think it would just be a simple database copy. |
| 05:52.58 | SqueeG | sheer volume? |
| 05:53.24 | SqueeG | throttling |
| 05:53.30 | SqueeG | sorcery |
| 05:55.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Trela (~Alexia@c-68-62-169-133.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 05:55.37 | clever | i can understand having to hand-verify realm transfers, but PTR isnt as important |
| 05:55.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Trela (~Alexia@c-68-62-169-133.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 05:56.06 | Corrodias | maybe they just want to piss you off |
| 05:56.12 | clever | want to keep an eye and make sure its not some gold seller moving his goods to sell it in less then an hour |
| 06:07.36 | Dagmar | clever: Dude, you miss the point of the PTR |
| 06:07.52 | Dagmar | If they didn't keep an eye on transfers, then they'd have to write different code for the PTR. |
| 06:08.12 | Dagmar | They need to be able to run the same code on the PTR as they're going to use on Live, in as many ways as possible. |
| 06:08.15 | Amarande | clever: there's a big market for gold on PTR? :) |
| 06:08.59 | Corrodias | on the one hand, lowering prices would get more high-end stuff tested. on the other hand, it would get less low-end stuff tested. |
| 06:09.03 | Dagmar | ...even if that means running PTR auctions through the same checking process as the live servers, at least it eliminates the chance something could go wrong with code _they didn't test on the PTR_ |
| 06:09.58 | Dagmar | ...and if you think there's no bugs to find on the PTR, go make a new hunter on there and level him for the next hour. You will find MANY bugs |
| 06:10.24 | Dagmar | Those who don't make new toons on the PTR don't get to see the new leveling graphics |
| 06:10.34 | Dagmar | Very easy on the eyes they are. |
| 06:10.36 | Dagmar | Purty. |
| 06:11.59 | Dagmar | Although I still think they should go to Scriptorium and say "Here is a bag of cash as big as you are. Gief Folkard nao plz" |
| 06:12.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (~Srosh@d056084.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 06:12.44 | Dagmar | If it weren't for that I really am just that uninterested in being in court, I'd have put out an addon that changes the zoning text font to Folkard |
| 06:12.48 | *** join/#wowuidev rikai (~rikai@unaffiliated/rikai) |
| 06:13.28 | Dagmar | I've no problems (other than sheer tedium) hand-drawing a near-exact replica of Folkard, naming it something else, and releasing it, but while that's legal it wouldn't really protect me from a lawsuit |
| 06:15.07 | Dagmar | (Yes, fonts in particular can be redrawn and would no longer be considered the same font, no matter how close the look) |
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| 06:25.38 | Amarande | Dagmar: Actually I'm kind of pissed off at Scriptorium. |
| 06:25.45 | Amarande | I think it's Scriptorium, anyway. |
| 06:25.59 | Amarande | They sell their fonts saying that you may embed their TrueType formats into PDFs. |
| 06:26.06 | Amarande | ... the TTF files are set to "restricted" embedding. |
| 06:26.07 | Amarande | Fail. |
| 06:26.29 | Corrodias | the very fact that a font can specify that it can't be embedded is failure |
| 06:26.43 | Corrodias | programs should totally ignore that, man |
| 06:27.20 | Corrodias | that's what i want to say, but people take fonts super seriously, turns out. |
| 06:27.25 | Corrodias | they're major IP or something. |
| 06:29.31 | Amarande | omg, that was an epic poker hand |
| 06:29.39 | Amarande | black kings vs. red aces |
| 06:29.45 | Amarande | Flop: JS, 9H, 8H |
| 06:29.54 | Amarande | (By this point they were all-in ...) |
| 06:30.06 | Amarande | Turn: KH, and now you start to bite nails |
| 06:30.22 | Amarande | ... and then the kings' sudden surge goes down the river with the 10H. :) |
| 06:30.52 | Amarande | And this, is the moment when one *really* gathers how poker can be an effective spectator sport. |
| 06:30.54 | Corrodias | tries to figure this one out |
| 06:30.59 | Corrodias | okay, what? |
| 06:31.15 | Amarande | Corrodias: the aces were *red*, so included the ace of hearts |
| 06:31.17 | Amarande | count the hearts. |
| 06:31.17 | Corrodias | wait, i see, last heart |
| 06:31.30 | Corrodias | i lost the 10H because it was on the other end of a line |
| 06:32.17 | Corrodias | most of the time, when i win a poker hand, it's with a flush. at an amateur level, they're so easy to get, and beat the more difficult straight. |
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| 07:19.16 | *** topic/#wowuidev by Cairenn -> http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ || 3.3.x ToC: 30300 || #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting || 3.3.5 Patch Notes are up: http://cot.ag/aCj0Wy || Are you going to BlizzCon (Oct 22 & 23)? http://tinyurl.com/22kjfxu || Cataclysm Beta Keys for Authors! http://cot.ag/aG4uy6 or http://cot.ag/bYZvjt || Cata Beta UI download: http://bit.ly/cvplpG || 5th Annual UI Community Dinner, sign up h |
| 07:19.29 | Cairenn | grrrr |
| 07:19.42 | Trela | Sign up hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh |
| 07:19.48 | Cairenn | yeah ... |
| 07:19.56 | *** topic/#wowuidev by Cairenn -> http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ || 3.3.x ToC: 30300 || #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting || 3.3.5 Patch Notes are up: http://cot.ag/aCj0Wy || Are you going to BlizzCon (Oct 22 & 23)? http://tinyurl.com/22kjfxu || Cataclysm Beta Keys for Authors! http://cot.ag/aG4uy6 or http://cot.ag/bYZvjt || Cata Beta UI download: http://bit.ly/cvplpG || 5th Annual UI Community Dinner, http://fb |
| 07:20.12 | Cairenn | son of a .... |
| 07:20.26 | dolby | beaver? |
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| 07:21.57 | *** topic/#wowuidev by Cairenn -> http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ || 3.3.x ToC: 30300 || #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting || Cata Beta UI download: http://bit.ly/cvplpG || Are you going to BlizzCon (Oct 22 & 23)? http://tinyurl.com/22kjfxu || 5th Annual UI Community Dinner http://fb.me/JFXVE9Zh |
| 07:22.11 | Cairenn | there we go |
| 07:22.15 | Cairenn | sorry 'bout that |
| 07:23.01 | Cairenn | There's a hard cap of 42 attendees, so sign up early! |
| 07:25.25 | Amarande | how goes the weekend Cairenn? :) |
| 07:25.29 | dolby | are you going to sign up Cairenn? |
| 07:26.38 | Cairenn | I did ;) |
| 07:26.46 | Cairenn | it goes, Amarande, you? |
| 07:35.25 | Amarande | It goes good here :) |
| 07:35.31 | Amarande | got my first piece of T10 early this morning |
| 07:35.32 | Cairenn | good to hear :) |
| 07:35.37 | Cairenn | grats |
| 07:35.46 | Amarande | and speaking of mornings, have to work way too many of them this coming week but ah well |
| 07:35.59 | Amarande | btw, you know what's odd that I noticed? |
| 07:36.18 | Amarande | apparently DKs can put runeforge runes on daggers and staves, even though they can't use them. :) |
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| 07:45.03 | Amarande | So tonight was our first serious set of attempts at the Lich King. |
| 07:45.29 | Amarande | and even these few attempts on 10 |
| 07:45.44 | Amarande | have made me wonder just how anyone can be insane enough to manage it on 25, and whether any Lights of Dawn still have their sanity intact at all. :) |
| 07:47.00 | Amarande | mainly, just seeing how Defile gets so big so quickly |
| 07:47.07 | Amarande | how can you even have room to fight on 25? |
| 07:47.31 | Amarande | let alone heroic 25 ... |
| 07:47.51 | Amarande | but yeah, currently we're working on the management of defile and val'kyrs |
| 07:48.06 | Amarande | had a druid get drag-n-dropped one att, and I almost went off the edge myself |
| 07:48.54 | Amarande | I believe my comment shortly before death (we had a wipe when everything all started happening at once, giant defile, me being dragged off by a val'kyr, people dying left and right ...) was something like |
| 07:48.59 | Amarande | "I believe the glowy winged women love me" |
| 07:49.14 | Amarande | heh, I got picked up *twice* that att |
| 07:50.27 | Amarande | anyway |
| 07:50.29 | Amarande | time for sleep |
| 07:50.33 | Amarande | night folks |
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| 08:15.27 | harl | hi |
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| 08:31.58 | sylvanaar | you guys notice that open all bags is now B instead of shift-B |
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| 08:52.07 | Shirik | sylvanaar |
| 08:52.14 | Shirik | that is only something like 4 years too late |
| 08:52.21 | sylvanaar | hm |
| 08:52.26 | Shirik | also, I just pulled a $20 card |
| 08:52.31 | Shirik | yay me |
| 08:52.55 | Shirik | sylvanaar: That's not to say it wasn't 4 years ago |
| 08:52.57 | Shirik | I mean it should have been |
| 08:53.13 | sylvanaar | indeed |
| 08:54.33 | Xinhuan | what's shift-B do now? |
| 08:56.28 | industrial | http://www.businessinsider.com/big-alcohol-donates-money-to-fight-legalization-of-pot-2010-9 |
| 08:56.31 | industrial | bbullshiat |
| 08:56.48 | industrial | "The interest group also includes Heineken, which knows from Amsterdam how legalization affects the market. |
| 08:56.51 | industrial | " |
| 08:57.02 | industrial | fyi weed is still illegal in the neherlands |
| 08:57.31 | industrial | heineken doesn't know shit about it |
| 08:57.44 | industrial | and I find that article almost telling me not to drink and smoke at the same time |
| 08:57.51 | industrial | as if that won't go well together :P |
| 08:57.54 | industrial | (it does :D) |
| 09:03.04 | Corrodias | okay, let's see, one of the "tags" is California, so i assume "prop 19" refers to a proposition on a California ballet relating to marijuana |
| 09:03.23 | Corrodias | this site's thoroughness leaves much to be desired |
| 09:03.33 | Corrodias | this reads like a tweet or a blog post. |
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| 09:21.30 | yoshimo | if the beta-launcher doesnt download anything and just crashes "launcher.exe has stopped working". what could cause this? |
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| 09:22.18 | Corrodias | a bug |
| 09:22.49 | eidolarr | is there a function to explode lua strings into arrays of chars? |
| 09:22.58 | yoshimo | mhm, next question how do i get the new betapatch then Corrodias?^^ |
| 09:23.22 | Corrodias | i dunno, i'm just messing with you |
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| 09:36.49 | industrial | Corrodias: yeah I get spammed by local (!!! america is LOCAL on the internet just like any other place !!!) american news all the time on reddit :P |
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| 10:25.50 | ZorbaTHut | deathcharger's reins :D |
| 10:26.05 | Fisker | can't officers only promote people to veteran? |
| 10:27.00 | nevcairiel | of course, an officer cant create another officer |
| 10:31.41 | Fisker | i'm going to fuck you ZorbaTHut |
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| 10:41.04 | Fisker | Apple are retarded |
| 10:41.06 | Fisker | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MMgu-_--gk |
| 10:41.31 | Fisker | OH NOS SOMEONE IS EXPANDING KNOWLEDGE OF OUR PRODUCT IN A FUN AND ORIGINAL WAY LETS SHUT IT DOWN |
| 10:41.38 | ZorbaTHut | I like the -_- in there |
| 10:41.44 | Fisker | haha |
| 10:41.45 | Fisker | yeah |
| 10:41.58 | ZorbaTHut | even youtube disapproves |
| 10:44.00 | nevcairiel | youtube is google, what did you expect |
| 10:49.45 | Jerub | omg, who quits group on a AN group at anub? |
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| 11:01.19 | Cide | who cares anyway? :P |
| 11:01.24 | Cide | you can probably solo anub |
| 11:06.10 | cbreak | female worgen, yay |
| 11:09.30 | cbreak | och, it crashes |
| 11:12.52 | foxlit | cbreak: at the worst possible moment, too |
| 11:13.41 | foxlit | also, all the character models appear to be gone :/ |
| 11:16.08 | Corrodias | you do not need character models |
| 11:16.21 | Corrodias | JUST FRIENDSHIP! |
| 11:17.07 | Corrodias | i'm pretty sure i like red grapes a lot more than green ones |
| 11:17.15 | cbreak | foxlit: delete all the Cache folders |
| 11:17.27 | cbreak | I found two |
| 11:18.06 | foxlit | cache/, data/cache |
| 11:19.59 | foxlit | cbreak: worked, though had to start wow.exe manually to regenerate them |
| 11:20.41 | cbreak | manually as opposed to? :) |
| 11:20.55 | foxlit | launcher |
| 11:27.48 | nevcairiel | I've had some issues using the launcher anyway |
| 11:27.58 | nevcairiel | wow process would start, but then get stuck |
| 11:28.30 | Fisker | hey nevcairiel |
| 11:28.34 | Fisker | not so hey cbreak though |
| 11:28.49 | Fisker | why is the horde mount a fucking scorpion? |
| 11:29.03 | nevcairiel | who is it fucking? |
| 11:29.06 | Fisker | OMG |
| 11:29.12 | cbreak | the rider. |
| 11:29.13 | Fisker | plainsrunning is back |
| 11:29.13 | Fisker | :o |
| 11:29.20 | nevcairiel | for worgens, i heard |
| 11:29.25 | Fisker | i wonder when they'll push that back |
| 11:29.28 | Fisker | gotta be fair and so on |
| 11:29.42 | Fisker | unless "running wild" can be learned by the other factions |
| 11:29.48 | Fisker | now that would be fucking lolable |
| 11:29.50 | nevcairiel | except saving money for the mount, dont see how its an advantage |
| 11:30.11 | cbreak | easier mount achievement for horde |
| 11:30.18 | Fisker | exactly |
| 11:30.21 | cbreak | because alliance can not buy the worgen mount |
| 11:30.26 | Fisker | I doubt they'll stick with it |
| 11:30.29 | cbreak | at least not realistically |
| 11:30.33 | nevcairiel | maybe they'll just give every other faction one more mount then |
| 11:30.37 | Fisker | otherwise they'll have to add other faction mounts to it |
| 11:30.43 | Fisker | and that's just gonna end up messy |
| 11:30.50 | nevcairiel | or remove tauren mounts |
| 11:30.53 | nevcairiel | they are f'ugly anyway |
| 11:30.59 | cbreak | yeah. Every other faction gets one more mount: |
| 11:31.01 | Fisker | then alliance won't have to rep farm all factions, but horde do, etc. |
| 11:31.10 | cbreak | just like the old one, but with a worg paw at the wind shield |
| 11:31.29 | nevcairiel | mounts have wind shields? |
| 11:31.38 | cbreak | gnome ones do |
| 11:31.42 | cbreak | invisible though |
| 11:33.17 | nevcairiel | I hope they stick with running wild though, seems like an awesome idea |
| 11:33.49 | cbreak | wonder what the worgen flying mount will be |
| 11:34.56 | nevcairiel | you transform into a bat |
| 11:34.59 | foxlit | They're essentially humans, though |
| 11:41.27 | cbreak | Hmm... new character creation fails |
| 11:41.32 | cbreak | (in cata) |
| 11:45.15 | Fisker | I hope Intel does that processor upgrade thing for highend processors too |
| 11:45.27 | Fisker | so for example you can buy a 6-core gulftown but it's limited to a 4-core i7 930 |
| 11:45.40 | Fisker | And i can pay for that upgrade |
| 11:45.45 | Fisker | and get a 6-core gulftown |
| 11:45.50 | Fisker | Or i can download a crack on the pirate bay |
| 11:45.52 | Fisker | and get it for free |
| 11:45.55 | Fisker | please make it so intel |
| 11:45.57 | Fisker | pleeeeeeeeeeease |
| 11:46.50 | Corrodias | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:49.13 | Fisker | That's kind of how it is |
| 11:49.21 | foxlit | Corrodias: it can also be the case that some components have proven to be defective in testing |
| 11:49.35 | Corrodias | yes, but not in this case |
| 11:49.41 | foxlit | Corrodias: a bad core? |
| 11:49.49 | Fisker | When you create a lot of highend chips only some of them will be good enough for that particular processor |
| 11:49.57 | Corrodias | he's talking about the officially unlockable ones |
| 11:50.00 | Fisker | So the chips get put into worse processors |
| 11:50.08 | foxlit | Though selling unlocks is weird. "Hey, it might not work, but you can try." |
| 11:50.24 | Fisker | Because they're good enough for say, a i7 930, but not good enough for an i7-975 (or whatever it is) |
| 11:50.33 | Corrodias | i assumed you were talking about this. http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/18/intel-wants-to-charge-50-to-unlock-stuff-your-cpu-can-already-d/ |
| 11:50.38 | Corrodias | if not, my mistake, never mind. |
| 11:50.50 | Fisker | it is :P |
| 11:50.58 | Corrodias | then... no. no defects. |
| 11:51.00 | cbreak | I have an 8 core machine since about 30 months |
| 11:51.18 | cbreak | I have not found many things that can actually use them all in that time |
| 11:51.18 | Fisker | no obviously you can't upgrade a "defected" processor |
| 11:51.30 | Fisker | i'm just saying they actually make the high-end parts instead of making high-end and low-end parts |
| 11:51.49 | Fisker | Likely they can just put the low-end parts in some OEM no-upgrade package thing |
| 11:51.55 | Corrodias | oh, i'm familiar with the practice |
| 11:52.10 | foxlit | But then it sort of makes sense |
| 11:52.13 | Corrodias | i just thought they actually manufactured it differently when they WANTED to make low-end stuff to meet demand and whatnot. |
| 11:52.21 | foxlit | If the demand for low-power ones outstrips your actual defect rate... you're, well, screwed. |
| 11:53.42 | foxlit | Fisker: it is possible to make this unbreakable, though |
| 11:53.43 | Jerub | anyone remember the 486 SX chips? |
| 11:53.49 | Corrodias | i guess intel got few enough defects that they figured they could ship only fully-capable ones |
| 11:54.03 | Jerub | they came out weeks after the DX chips because they had to be modified in a separate process after manufacture to make them slower |
| 11:54.40 | Corrodias | i wasn't really aware of what my hardware was until the dx4 was out. oh, the good old days. |
| 11:54.41 | Fisker | naw foxlit |
| 11:54.45 | foxlit | yaw? |
| 11:54.48 | Fisker | NAW! |
| 11:54.55 | foxlit | no, seriously, yaw. |
| 11:55.01 | foxlit | Pull up already, you're flying into a mountain |
| 11:55.07 | Fisker | oh god |
| 11:55.41 | Fisker | I just want to go out and buy a processor for $200 and then upgrade it to a processor that costs $1000 for free |
| 11:55.47 | Fisker | is that so much to ask for? |
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| 12:25.25 | foxlit | http://www.mpaa.org/Resources/86fec176-1e62-401c-aaa6-e58c4078426e.jpg << aww? |
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| 12:30.55 | Fisker | oh god |
| 12:31.00 | Fisker | the new preload is huuuuuuuuuuuueg |
| 12:37.07 | Fisker | download speed is not hueg |
| 12:37.55 | Jerub | sets download going |
| 12:40.19 | Fisker | anyone know where i can find some stuff on transmutation mastery proc rates and shit? |
| 12:41.06 | Jerub | sorry, haven't played an alchemist yet. |
| 12:41.13 | Jerub | was planning on respeccing skinner as alchemist soon |
| 12:43.00 | A-KO | http://cache-03.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2010/09/roth.png |
| 12:43.01 | A-KO | lol |
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| 13:03.16 | A-KO | LOL wow |
| 13:03.20 | A-KO | femalr worgen got fucking ugly |
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| 13:27.32 | Fisker | man |
| 13:27.41 | Fisker | this preload is so horrible i had to write a script to download at decent speeds |
| 13:32.34 | Stanzilla | giev |
| 13:33.42 | Fisker | i've already downloaded 1GB in the last 5 minutes |
| 13:34.03 | Fisker | and naw Stanzilla |
| 13:34.09 | Fisker | it's not ready for production :P |
| 13:34.13 | Fisker | besides it should be easy |
| 13:34.29 | Fisker | Made a program a few years ago |
| 13:34.32 | Fisker | but i threw it away :( |
| 13:34.51 | Stanzilla | giev :( |
| 13:36.06 | foxlit | Personally, I just ignore the preloads |
| 13:36.33 | Fisker | just make one yourself Stanzilla it should be easy ;3 |
| 13:36.46 | *** join/#wowuidev shifuimam (~shifuimam@polatrite.com) |
| 13:36.50 | Fisker | Make a script to download every file from http://blizzard.vo.llnwd.net/o16/content/eu/wow/patch/WoW-3.3.x-to-4.0.0-patch-EU-Stage-2.pieces/0-18218 |
| 13:36.59 | Fisker | Then add it all together when you're done |
| 13:37.02 | Wobin | http://bennyhillifier.com/?id=GbAiYjovbBM |
| 13:37.10 | Wobin | it -really- makes it better, I'm impressed |
| 13:37.27 | Stanzilla | mkay |
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| 13:50.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 13:52.05 | Fisker | i'm almost halfway done now |
| 13:52.12 | Fisker | and i've only spent 20 minutes on |
| 13:52.13 | Fisker | it |
| 13:52.14 | Fisker | wee |
| 13:57.01 | olafski | dagnabbit now I want to watch that movie again wobin |
| 13:57.39 | olafski | foxlit: same.. it's not like those few minutes on the patch day itself will kill me :) |
| 14:03.39 | Kraps | looooool http://media.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2010/september/femaleworgens.jpg |
| 14:07.13 | Kraps | oh snap http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/26859267754/does-blizzard-regret-creating-rogues/ |
| 14:08.49 | foxlit | Kraps: the facial expression is clearly "OH NOES I LOOK LIKE WHAT?!" |
| 14:08.49 | Wobin | http://fukung.net/v/20256/7101ca785633f2a5bff0a0a618873e05.jpg |
| 14:09.32 | Wobin | Kraps: holy wtf creepy worgen |
| 14:11.36 | Kraps | they're very cuddly |
| 14:11.58 | Wobin | lol http://www.etsy.com/listing/55724909/green-striped-bearded-beanie-lxl |
| 14:12.31 | foxlit | Meh, spam |
| 14:12.32 | Fisker | Wobinmen |
| 14:12.47 | foxlit | "The page is really converting sales, watch it here: [link]. Not interested? Opt out below: [same link]" |
| 14:16.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 14:17.32 | foxlit | Hm, Sunfire is replaced by "Teleport Away"; hilarity ensues |
| 14:18.52 | Ressy | only if you have trained mastery |
| 14:19.11 | Kraps | why is the direct download for the background downloader going at 32 kb/s? |
| 14:19.29 | foxlit | Hm, this must be venture bay 2 |
| 14:22.53 | Thunder_Child | i have to stop visiting steam's store, i keep spending money there |
| 14:24.59 | foxlit | "melee swing hits you for 47.5k physical, 2.8k overkill" |
| 14:25.16 | Fisker | roh roh |
| 14:25.18 | Fisker | this sucks |
| 14:25.59 | Kraps | this made me go :O http://cata.wowhead.com/spell=29144 |
| 14:26.09 | olafski | very cool wobin |
| 14:27.08 | Wobin | Kraps: oh thank god |
| 14:27.16 | Wobin | Kraps: I won't have to taunt to get rage =P |
| 14:27.37 | Wobin | (not that taunting really is much of an issue, but still...) |
| 14:28.01 | Wobin | it's often annoying to be rage starved cause you're the offtank |
| 14:30.35 | Kraps | Wobin: http://cata.wowhead.com/spell=12852 or http://cata.wowhead.com/spell=85742 |
| 14:31.20 | Kraps | also http://cata.wowhead.com/spell=84572 :p |
| 14:31.35 | Kraps | SO MANY TALENTS, SO FEW POINTS |
| 14:31.58 | Kraps | scratch the last one |
| 14:32.06 | Kraps | seems more meh |
| 14:32.07 | olafski | and I thought they were going to make talents more fun.. I start leveling a priest, first talent I get to choose is +3% SW:Pain damage or +1% spell haste =( |
| 14:33.07 | *** join/#wowuidev mitchnull (~mitchnull@catv3EC944A1.pool.t-online.hu) |
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| 14:34.08 | olafski | also I'm not sure about those shadow orbs or whatever they're called.. do shadowpriests always get those, or only if they take the talent? cause the talent says "increases the chance ..." |
| 14:34.53 | Kraps | increases the chance i.e. more often |
| 14:35.11 | olafski | yeah that's what I thought.. but then I don't see how we get that chance to begin with |
| 14:35.25 | Kraps | specifically with mind flay and sw:p |
| 14:35.46 | Kraps | mastery |
| 14:35.52 | olafski | oh.. hm |
| 14:35.57 | Kraps | http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#b |
| 14:35.59 | olafski | does it say what mastery does anywhere in the talent screen? |
| 14:36.21 | olafski | mastery: shadow orbs.. hm, didn't say that ingame |
| 14:36.55 | olafski | maybe because I'm not level 80 yet |
| 14:37.10 | Kraps | did you make your talent choices yet? |
| 14:38.02 | olafski | yeah I spent 3 talents I think |
| 14:39.21 | cbreak | it says so on the overview screen |
| 14:39.27 | cbreak | the one where you picked your specialisation |
| 14:39.30 | Kraps | ^ |
| 14:39.39 | olafski | I'm 99% sure it only said the top 2 things |
| 14:39.42 | olafski | which level are you guys? |
| 14:39.58 | olafski | and are you talking about cata beta or ptr? |
| 14:40.09 | cbreak | beta. |
| 14:40.13 | cbreak | 82 |
| 14:40.23 | cbreak | but it worked the same way with my level 10 there |
| 14:40.28 | olafski | hm, I was on ptr |
| 14:40.32 | olafski | I'll check again :P |
| 14:40.34 | Kraps | olafski: click view summaries |
| 14:40.48 | olafski | back in 3 minutes :) |
| 14:41.53 | olafski | jebus, I left the downloader on yesterday to download the full thing, now it says it has downloaded 0 of 14GB |
| 14:42.06 | olafski | never mind, I'll just believe you two.. though I'm still sure it wasn't there for me :P |
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| 14:48.32 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 14:48.34 | Wobin | I was playing with the Infinite Mana part of spriesting |
| 14:49.09 | Wobin | ie http://cata.wowhead.com/spell=87100 |
| 14:49.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (~Kaso@host109-153-33-236.range109-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 14:49.24 | *** join/#wowuidev robokitty (~roboe@50A2E6C0.flatrate.dk) |
| 14:49.43 | olafski | that talent does sound good |
| 14:50.07 | Wobin | hitting a dummy, it was ridiculously easy to never run out of mana |
| 14:51.30 | Wobin | also, dotting up a bunch of mobs with SW:P and running in circles made for a crowd =P |
| 14:52.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Limbero (~Limbero@c83-250-2-110.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 14:53.26 | Wobin | thanks to http://cata.wowhead.com/spell=78204 |
| 14:54.15 | Kraps | is the apparition targetable or what |
| 14:54.25 | Wobin | nope |
| 14:54.44 | Wobin | well, afaik, you can't hit it |
| 14:54.50 | Kraps | While moving, the chance to summon the shadowy apparation is increased to 60%. haha wow |
| 14:54.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Gagorian (rw3@104-172.turkunet.fi) |
| 14:55.05 | Kraps | does it have an ICD |
| 14:57.07 | Wobin | unknown at this point |
| 14:57.26 | Wobin | but I have dotted up a bunch of npcs and created a hell of a lot of clones |
| 14:57.33 | Kraps | you can do this apparently http://s191.photobucket.com/albums/z61/cl_wow/?action=view¤t=shadow.jpg |
| 14:57.35 | Wobin | so the ICD may be small |
| 14:57.51 | Wobin | if the target dies, the clone remains |
| 14:57.58 | Wobin | I think |
| 14:58.11 | Wobin | I don't do any of this research scientifically =P |
| 15:00.04 | Kraps | damn Anasterian |
| 15:00.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Schnaks (~Schnaks@p4FC4F747.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:05.34 | Kraps | http://images.publicradio.org/content/2008/11/19/20081119_lizardpeople_33.jpg |
| 15:07.09 | Kraps | they look better with armor http://www.blogcdn.com/wow.joystiq.com/media/2010/09/wowscrnshot091810222042.jpg |
| 15:08.00 | foxlit | owch, did you not finish streaming the client? |
| 15:08.41 | Kraps | who |
| 15:09.05 | foxlit | good point, it's wowinsider |
| 15:09.12 | haste | lol |
| 15:10.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@82.111.113.208) |
| 15:10.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 15:10.49 | cbreak | in switzerland, our election forms are either preprinted (from various parties, you can pick one), or you fill a blank with who ever you want. |
| 15:11.00 | Fisker | hahaha |
| 15:11.02 | cbreak | I have to help count them once to find out what people write on those... |
| 15:11.04 | Fisker | this is fucking awesome |
| 15:11.17 | Fisker | 3 different body ads in orgrimmar |
| 15:11.21 | Fisker | they're overlapping and shit |
| 15:13.36 | Kraps | its the pre-cata rush |
| 15:17.45 | cbreak | rush? |
| 15:17.52 | cbreak | I hope my guild survives until then :/ |
| 15:20.57 | *** join/#wowuidev SqueeG (~ZomgInter@cpe-24-161-96-151.hvc.res.rr.com) |
| 15:23.39 | Kraps | huh shammies come with a shield |
| 15:29.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Guardix-lagtop (~Martin@0x5da165ee.hinqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 15:37.00 | *** join/#wowuidev WyriHaxi1us (~wyri@haxim.us) |
| 15:37.27 | *** join/#wowuidev augustl (~augustl@6.79-160-9.customer.lyse.net) |
| 15:40.13 | Wobin | cbreak: one of my friends did that for the australian election |
| 15:40.28 | Wobin | You'd probably not be surprised how many people voted for penis |
| 15:40.54 | cbreak | lesbians with a wish? :/ |
| 15:41.08 | Wobin | then... they're not really lesbians? |
| 15:41.23 | cbreak | maybe. |
| 15:41.29 | cbreak | I don't know the exact definition |
| 15:41.48 | cbreak | if they want to have one? hmm... |
| 15:41.53 | Wobin | penis envy |
| 15:54.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Guardix-lagtop (~Martin@0x5da165ee.hinqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 15:58.46 | *** join/#wowuidev EthanCentaurai (~ethan@89.240.205.206) |
| 15:59.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Osagasu (~Creek@67-197-1-37.rh1.dyn.cm.comporium.net) |
| 16:11.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (Vilkku@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe0bfa00-122.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 16:12.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Guardix (~Martin@0x5da165ee.hinqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 16:13.32 | foxlit | Fiiiiiiiiiiiiindeeeeeerrr.... :( |
| 16:22.00 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (~smcn@c-174-52-104-121.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 16:23.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (~chatzilla@99-92-174-69.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net) |
| 16:25.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Pneumatus (~WiN@unaffiliated/pneumatus) |
| 16:27.44 | Kraps | what do people mean by dx11 water? |
| 16:27.54 | Kraps | how is that different? |
| 16:31.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Limbrero (~Limbero@c83-250-2-110.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 16:31.41 | Maldivia | Kraps: the new water effects in the bea, I would presume |
| 16:31.46 | Maldivia | althouh it's actually DX10 |
| 16:32.26 | Kraps | i can see the new effects |
| 16:32.29 | Cide | more effects with better shader language |
| 16:32.38 | Arrowmaster | not like theres any difference between dx10 and dx11 |
| 16:32.43 | Cide | sure there is |
| 16:32.49 | Cide | at least to developers |
| 16:32.54 | Kraps | dxdiad says i have dx11 /shrug |
| 16:33.02 | Maldivia | Kraps: they use an extension to the dx9 api, to allow for it to work |
| 16:33.14 | Maldivia | on the dx9 rendering engin |
| 16:33.16 | Cide | or directx's downport functionality |
| 16:33.31 | Cide | but you don't get the performance benefits obviously |
| 16:34.34 | Fisker | foxlit |
| 16:34.35 | Fisker | i came |
| 16:35.02 | Fisker | ihttp://vimeo.com/14352658 |
| 16:36.30 | Maldivia | lol - on a danish geek news site (newz.dk) they are running a poll on your favorite search engine... google has 97% of the votes :P |
| 16:36.39 | Kraps | is ihttp a new protocol Fisker? |
| 16:37.03 | Maldivia | Apple enhanced http? |
| 16:37.27 | Kraps | +1 Maldivia |
| 16:38.46 | Fisker | oh my |
| 16:38.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Schnaks (~Schnaks@p4FC4C83C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:39.00 | Fisker | http://vimeo.com/14352658 <-be glad it's not spdy |
| 16:39.11 | A-KO | okay that's awesome |
| 16:39.17 | Fisker | what's so lol about that Maldivia ? |
| 16:40.03 | Maldivia | well, I think it's what's called marked dominance |
| 16:40.16 | Fisker | so what? |
| 16:40.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Krapsy (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 16:51.18 | Shirik | has pocky!! |
| 16:51.32 | A-KO | oh nice |
| 16:51.37 | A-KO | the dragons got new flight animations |
| 16:51.39 | A-KO | they "glide" now |
| 16:51.41 | A-KO | rather than flap |
| 16:51.52 | haste | didn't they do that before as well? |
| 16:53.22 | foxlit | That sounds like 3.2, A-KO |
| 16:53.54 | A-KO | hmmm |
| 16:53.57 | A-KO | I dunno |
| 16:54.00 | A-KO | something different about it |
| 16:55.32 | Jamash | I want to stress that this is an unedited screenshot from an unmodified beta client http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9441366/worgen%20female.jpg |
| 16:55.47 | Cide | nice rack |
| 16:56.29 | Cide | anyone up for worms? |
| 16:56.32 | Maldivia | Jamash: you forgot the NSFW tag :P |
| 16:56.39 | Jamash | uh, yeah |
| 16:56.42 | Jamash | sorry :P |
| 16:56.46 | Maldivia | heh |
| 16:56.48 | Cide | no nipples <=> sfw |
| 16:56.52 | Jamash | ^ |
| 16:57.03 | Maldivia | no hair = sfw ? :P |
| 16:57.17 | Cide | she could use a bikini wax |
| 16:58.34 | mikma | http://media.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2010/september/femaleworgens.jpg |
| 16:58.56 | mikma | This is now official, Worgens won't get their own mounts, they will get a mount racial spell instead. |
| 16:58.59 | mikma | heh |
| 16:59.11 | Pneumatus | their facial expressions look like they are straining to take a dump |
| 16:59.17 | Jamash | I'd like to <MESSAGE REDACTED> |
| 17:03.45 | Kraps | Jamash: hawt |
| 17:04.29 | A-KO | damn |
| 17:04.32 | A-KO | ZG being outdoor is crazy |
| 17:04.41 | A-KO | it's large and empty |
| 17:04.46 | A-KO | and not quite exactly the "ZG" that we remember ;) |
| 17:04.52 | Jamash | can you still get the tiger mount? |
| 17:04.56 | A-KO | no |
| 17:04.58 | A-KO | it's gone |
| 17:05.01 | Jamash | QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ |
| 17:05.03 | A-KO | the dungeon is gone, the zone is outside now |
| 17:05.33 | Jamash | anyway this is how you get the results in that screenshot http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=26850267306&sid=2000 |
| 17:08.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (Vilkku@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe0bfa00-122.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 17:08.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Esamynn|Away (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Esamynn) |
| 17:08.50 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Esamynn|Away] by ChanServ |
| 17:12.00 | *** join/#wowuidev robokitty (~roboe@50A2E6C0.flatrate.dk) |
| 17:13.54 | Kraps | QQ over Running Wild makes me sad |
| 17:17.00 | Fisker | there's a lot to QQ about Kraps |
| 17:17.06 | Jamash | I'm going to reserve judgment until I see it in action |
| 17:17.16 | Fisker | it's action is meaningless |
| 17:17.53 | Jamash | ? |
| 17:18.15 | cogwheel | Fisker: when said out loud, "mountan dew" is a story about your mom |
| 17:19.40 | Fisker | hey cogwheel |
| 17:19.47 | Kraps | Fisker: explain? |
| 17:19.48 | Fisker | Finished downloading "WoW-3.3.x-to-4.0.0-patch-EU-Stage-2". |
| 17:19.51 | cogwheel | etod |
| 17:19.54 | cogwheel | ohai |
| 17:20.00 | Fisker | shitty background downloader isn't gonna hold me down |
| 17:20.07 | cogwheel | was just a step to the riiiight |
| 17:20.24 | Fisker | explain what Kraps ? |
| 17:20.31 | Kraps | QQ |
| 17:20.47 | Fisker | It gives one faction more unique mounts, and the other faction a faction less to want to grind for |
| 17:20.53 | Fisker | sounds like legit QQ to me |
| 17:21.19 | Kraps | blizz will even it out |
| 17:21.27 | Fisker | by including worgen mounts |
| 17:21.36 | Fisker | you heard it here first |
| 17:21.44 | mikma | http://mikma.eu/wow/WoWScrnShot_091910_201934.jpg <- i see what you did there |
| 17:21.50 | Kraps | and if you "want" to grind this wont stop you |
| 17:24.49 | mikma | haste + wobin: http://laite.org/singapore_panorama_night.jpg |
| 17:25.52 | Fisker | wtf @ the scyscraper looking like it has a boat on top |
| 17:25.53 | Fisker | :E |
| 17:28.02 | Zyn | that boat is a massive pool |
| 17:29.12 | Slackwise | Arghhh, my WoW fps is driving me insane. |
| 17:29.44 | Slackwise | Windowed Fullscreen: 35.7fps |
| 17:29.54 | Slackwise | Windowed resized to near full screen: 75fps |
| 17:30.04 | Slackwise | Windowed, resized, then maximized.... 37.5fps |
| 17:30.10 | Slackwise | Fullscreen normal mode: 75fps |
| 17:30.24 | Slackwise | http://slackwi.se/files/images/screenshots/WoW/FPS_Issue/ |
| 17:30.25 | Shirik | cries |
| 17:30.38 | Shirik | post on the Lua mailing list, someone was asking about 0 vs -0 |
| 17:30.40 | Shirik | it's got like 10 replies |
| 17:30.49 | Shirik | sad thing is the consensus there is "omg it must be a bug" |
| 17:31.01 | ckknight | but 0 is different from -0 |
| 17:31.01 | Shirik | Have we really gotten that high level in languages that people don't even understand IEEE 754 anymore? |
| 17:31.15 | ckknight | they're very close, mind you, but one bit is off |
| 17:31.17 | Shirik | yes, but it's guaranteed that 0 == -0 |
| 17:31.27 | ckknight | Shirik: yes, people don't understand IEEE-754 |
| 17:31.40 | Shirik | that used to be a core technology that had to be known |
| 17:31.53 | Shirik | "now it's like 'omg wat is float'" |
| 17:35.23 | p3lim | can any of you spot whats wrong with this EditBox? http://pastey.net/140764 |
| 17:35.41 | p3lim | something essential I am missing or something, I'm not too familiar with editboxes |
| 17:35.48 | Fisker | hey ckknight |
| 17:36.01 | ckknight | Fisker: tremble! |
| 17:37.17 | Fisker | i downloaded Stage 2 of the 4.0.0 preload |
| 17:37.24 | Fisker | it should be you that should tremble |
| 17:38.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide- (~Cide@c213-100-51-33.swipnet.se) |
| 17:38.56 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
| 17:39.13 | Cide- | hi |
| 17:39.50 | Thunder_Child | hi |
| 17:40.08 | Thunder_Child | Cide-: let me know when you ladies play worms, i'll join |
| 17:42.32 | Fisker | Cide |
| 17:42.39 | Fisker | i have done it |
| 17:46.05 | Arrowmaster | i just got 777CR from the Reach slot machine |
| 17:46.58 | cogwheel | wow... if my right hand is one spot to the left, hellfire becomes derryice |
| 17:47.08 | cogwheel | s/wow/O.o/ |
| 17:47.42 | Dagmar | how exactly does that happen |
| 17:47.47 | cogwheel | dvorak |
| 17:47.52 | Dagmar | Ah |
| 17:47.55 | Dagmar | Serves you right then. |
| 17:48.11 | cogwheel | anyway.... hellfire would look so much cooler if it had the sharp edges from wotlk |
| 17:48.22 | cogwheel | and netherstorm |
| 17:49.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Ycarene (jporterf@24-116-56-41.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 17:51.40 | Kraps | hellfire becomes derryice? |
| 17:51.47 | p3lim | Arrowmaster: nice :o |
| 17:51.54 | p3lim | I think my biggest is like 450 |
| 17:56.57 | Kraps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57ya4Q-Oc5Q&feature=channel |
| 17:57.27 | cogwheel | Kraps: it's one of the oddities of dvorak. because of the way the layout is designed, off-by-one errors often look like or are real words |
| 18:05.40 | Kraps | possible nsfw http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2010/09/500x_07dueling16.jpg |
| 18:08.46 | foxlit | http://wow.go-hero.net/framexml/12984/VehicleMenuBar.lua#838 |
| 18:08.57 | foxlit | Comments are awesome |
| 18:09.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Yssaril (~kvirc@99-57-32-25.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:10.07 | mikma | kraps: DUN DUN DUUUUUUUN |
| 18:11.04 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvaan (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 18:13.44 | Yssaril | anyone else getting a wowerror when trying to load into the world after selecting a character (in beta) http://paste.wowace.com/2475/ |
| 18:17.28 | Kraps | http://www.wowbash.com/images/1282926769.jpg |
| 18:20.44 | p3lim | Kraps: was that on live? |
| 18:21.03 | Kraps | no clue |
| 18:21.08 | Kraps | probably |
| 18:22.20 | Cide- | hi |
| 18:25.22 | Thunder_Child | Cide-: you said that already |
| 18:26.06 | Kraps | he didnt say the worms thing yet |
| 18:26.17 | Thunder_Child | who didnt? |
| 18:26.19 | p3lim | so, can any of you spot whats wrong with this EditBox? http://pastey.net/140764 |
| 18:26.25 | Kraps | cide |
| 18:26.32 | p3lim | It doesnt show or anything, I'm thinking something is missing.. |
| 18:26.42 | Thunder_Child | he didnt say it last time though |
| 18:27.27 | PProvost | p3lim: editBox has no height or width |
| 18:27.38 | PProvost | you only set Top |
| 18:28.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Limbero (~Limbero@c83-250-2-110.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 18:29.24 | p3lim | PProvost: it has both height and width |
| 18:29.31 | p3lim | see line 23 |
| 18:29.37 | Cide- | yes Kraps? |
| 18:29.47 | Kraps | dont mind |
| 18:29.49 | Kraps | me |
| 18:30.45 | PProvost | p3lim: All I can say is, I've had EditBox do this any time I wasn't overly careful on points and size |
| 18:30.53 | cogwheel | Ackis: small dogs are like cats that care |
| 18:32.34 | p3lim | PProvost: but its all there, I don't really see where the problem is.. |
| 18:32.45 | PProvost | I know... just saying |
| 18:32.51 | PProvost | Try another positioning technique |
| 18:32.53 | PProvost | See if it shows up |
| 18:32.56 | PProvost | I didn't say it made sense |
| 18:33.24 | p3lim | I tried forcing size through setpoints, but that didnt work neither |
| 18:38.46 | SqueeG | hrm, does anyone know of a HUD off the top of their head that flashes flames upon critting? |
| 18:39.03 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 18:42.51 | zenzelezz | http://punditkitchen.com/2010/09/18/political-pictures-various-states-vlad/ -- all these "...'s emotion charts" just don't live up to the Steven Seagal one |
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| 18:45.01 | *** join/#wowuidev TMcMahon51 (~TMc@cpe-74-71-49-62.twcny.res.rr.com) |
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| 18:48.45 | foxlit | zenzelezz: a few captions back: "Is Sarah Palin the next Barack Obama?" |
| 18:50.37 | zenzelezz | seeing how weird she is, I wouldn't be surprised if she tried to become the first black female president in the US |
| 18:51.30 | TMcMahon51 | There's a good joke in there somewhere, but it would be too easy. <,< |
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| 18:56.06 | SqueeG | http://punditkitchen.com/2010/07/19/political-pictures-derp/?from=recMap4 |
| 18:56.07 | SqueeG | ahahahahaha |
| 18:56.22 | p3lim | lol |
| 18:57.02 | mikma | i have a idea |
| 18:57.07 | mikma | Goatse -minimap! |
| 18:57.10 | mikma | oh boy |
| 18:57.18 | TMcMahon51 | hahaha |
| 18:57.44 | zenzelezz | maybe it's just me, but I never saw the humour in "derp" |
| 19:06.54 | Fisker | so you think you can stop me zenzelezz ? |
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| 19:08.30 | Kraps | worst marketing stunt ever? (according to kotaku) http://www.gog.com/ |
| 19:08.44 | Fisker | yeah looks like it :( |
| 19:08.55 | Fisker | i was almost happy |
| 19:09.04 | TMcMahon51 | Yah, I heard. If it is a marketting stunt, they just lost pretty much everybody that was loyal to them. |
| 19:10.26 | Fisker | could of course be that they went bankrupt and wanted to restart |
| 19:10.27 | Fisker | but i doubt it |
| 19:11.00 | zenzelezz | what was/is gog? |
| 19:11.08 | TMcMahon51 | Good Old Games |
| 19:11.23 | TMcMahon51 | oldschool PC and DOS games |
| 19:13.58 | p3lim | i love wowbash |
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| 19:17.05 | Fisker | robokitty |
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| 19:33.11 | Kraps | anyone notice the vertical orange bar that shows up in the seek bar of youtube videos? |
| 19:34.16 | *** join/#wowuidev mojosdojo| (~mojosdojo@p4FEFC9BB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:34.20 | Dagmar | You seriously haven't figured out what that is yet? |
| 19:34.45 | Dagmar | It's been there for months now. |
| 19:34.52 | Kraps | i know |
| 19:35.00 | foxlit | there is no orange bar |
| 19:35.06 | Kraps | dont know what it is though |
| 19:35.16 | Dagmar | It marks when a media popup happens. |
| 19:35.18 | Dagmar | Generally an ad. |
| 19:35.23 | Kraps | :o |
| 19:35.35 | foxlit | Dagmar: and if I've never seen one? |
| 19:35.48 | Dagmar | foxlit: You don't use YouTube that much? |
| 19:35.59 | foxlit | Not abnormally so. |
| 19:36.14 | Dagmar | If you want I'll go find one and take a screenshot of it |
| 19:36.16 | tem | Any idea if Twlilight Highlands and Uldum have quest rewards yet? |
| 19:37.35 | Dagmar | For example, on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=066_q4DIeqk under the seek bar at about 0:12s, for whatever fucking reason a completely unrelated-to-the-video popup shilling MP3s on Amazon will appear |
| 19:37.45 | foxlit | "This video contains content from Sony Music Entertainment, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds. |
| 19:37.45 | foxlit | " |
| 19:38.00 | Dagmar | Enh probably for the best |
| 19:38.07 | Dagmar | You ain't missin' much there. |
| 19:42.35 | Kraps | Dagmar: they're selling the song thats in the vid |
| 19:42.45 | Kraps | so its related |
| 19:43.51 | *** join/#wowuidev augustl (~augustl@6.79-160-9.customer.lyse.net) |
| 19:46.01 | Dagmar | No. |
| 19:48.33 | Dagmar | THIS is "Canned Heat" by Jamiroquai http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i46N2ZFPb0 |
| 19:48.48 | foxlit | "This video contains content from Sony Music Entertainment, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds." |
| 19:48.52 | Dagmar | The soundtrack for that video is definitely not fucking Jamiroquai |
| 19:49.14 | Dagmar | Sounds like the freaking BeeGees to me |
| 19:49.23 | Dagmar | Holy shit |
| 19:49.47 | Dagmar | the ASUS rep I just spoke with tried to put my RMA back to a first tier non-escalated queue |
| 19:50.39 | Dagmar | They need to start firing people |
| 19:51.03 | zenzelezz | why did he try to do that? |
| 19:51.10 | Dagmar | When I'm learning this much about how someone's RMA process works from one piece of equipment, it's a sign that yer RMA process in fact does _not_ work |
| 19:51.30 | Dagmar | zenzelezz: I'm thinking a depressed or missing instinct for self-preservation, personally |
| 19:51.43 | cbreak | RMA? |
| 19:51.55 | zenzelezz | return to manufacturer, or something |
| 19:51.59 | Dagmar | Return to Manufacturer Authorizaion |
| 19:52.04 | cbreak | waranty? |
| 19:52.21 | Dagmar | You've never had to send hardware back to the manufacturer? |
| 19:52.24 | Dagmar | I'm jealous. |
| 19:52.24 | zenzelezz | I think RMA is separate from warranty |
| 19:52.28 | cbreak | I have macs |
| 19:52.34 | cbreak | if I have a problem, I get to complain to them |
| 19:52.43 | cbreak | and since all hardware is from them, they cant wiggle out |
| 19:53.02 | zenzelezz | what? You mean you don't assume that was Steve Jobs wanted your specific Mac to work? |
| 19:53.15 | cbreak | (I did have one windows PC with a serious error, but I just had to bring it to the shop, and a few days later I could get it back fixed) |
| 19:53.24 | Dagmar | Well, there's nothing really ASUS can "wiggle out" of here. They made the netbook, and twice now their repair techs have ignored the symptoms and just reflashed the BIOS and disk |
| 19:53.34 | Kraps | Dagmar: the part with Napoleon Dynamite is Jamiroquai |
| 19:53.38 | Dagmar | Didn't work the first time, and I've no idea why they thought it might work the second time |
| 19:53.47 | Dagmar | Kraps: That's not what's playing at 0:12 |
| 19:54.00 | Kraps | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:54.02 | cbreak | it might be easier if you buy your hardware in a physical shop |
| 19:54.06 | cbreak | as opposed to via mail |
| 19:54.15 | Dagmar | Not really. |
| 19:54.42 | Dagmar | I am not a nice man when I have had to deal with a technician (or gods forbid, a salesman) who is being dishonest |
| 19:55.07 | Dagmar | There's standing orders at the two nearest Best Buys for their people to never, ever try and bullshit me. |
| 19:55.16 | cbreak | maybe I was lucky, but in the 17 years I dealt with computers, I've only had two or three serious problems |
| 19:55.40 | Arrowmaster | i think i got a dead motherboard once and RMA'd it right away |
| 19:55.56 | Dagmar | I only seldom wind up with lemon hardware. |
| 19:56.00 | cbreak | well... maybe four. But that one was three years out of waranty already |
| 19:56.10 | Dagmar | It's the whole fact that I've send this unit back TWICE and both times they completely failed to fix it |
| 19:56.20 | zenzelezz | what's wrong with it? |
| 19:56.26 | Dagmar | *I'D* have fixed it if it needed anything other than an entirely different mainboard |
| 19:56.26 | cbreak | did you tell them what's wrong? |
| 19:56.35 | Dagmar | cbreak: Actually, I _did_ |
| 19:56.42 | cbreak | in baby language? |
| 19:56.47 | cbreak | they might not understand it otherwise |
| 19:56.56 | Dagmar | The CMOS memory is fried and will not hold it's settings beyond a few boots. |
| 19:57.29 | cbreak | :/ |
| 19:57.34 | cbreak | you tested the battery? |
| 19:57.40 | Dagmar | ...being that this necessarily involves memory timing nowadays, and the BIOS doesn't question values from CMOS if it sees them, this is bad. |
| 19:57.50 | cbreak | cmod battery is a common problem in macs :( |
| 19:57.57 | Dagmar | cbreak: Soldered to mainboard. Part of mainboard actually. |
| 19:58.01 | cbreak | ouch |
| 19:58.12 | cbreak | hey, something that is more replaceable over here :D |
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| 20:05.02 | Dagmar | cbreak: Last I checked, that's not technically a "user-replaceable" part |
| 20:05.14 | cbreak | hmm. it is on macs. |
| 20:05.19 | cbreak | maybe macs need it more. |
| 20:05.26 | Dagmar | ...which is part of my problem. I'm trying to play by the rules and not actually open the damn thing and violate the warranty |
| 20:05.39 | kd3 | macs? with user-servicable parts? |
| 20:05.39 | kd3 | ahaha |
| 20:05.41 | cbreak | (I changed that thing in at least three of my past macs, and every time an empty battery prevented booting) |
| 20:05.49 | Shirik | Adys / nevcairiel / Arrowmaster / anyone: 'git pull' is refusing to delete something that has local modifications |
| 20:05.56 | Shirik | -f doesn't seem to be right |
| 20:06.05 | Shirik | isn't there a way to force it? |
| 20:06.23 | kd3 | git reset path/to/modified/file ? |
| 20:06.28 | Adys | git checkout whateverWasModified.c |
| 20:06.29 | Shirik | well yeah but there's a ton of them |
| 20:06.36 | Adys | git reset --hard |
| 20:06.42 | Shirik | but I don't want to reset everything |
| 20:06.46 | Adys | uh |
| 20:06.48 | Shirik | I only want to say "it's ok to delete the files" |
| 20:06.50 | Adys | commit your changes then? |
| 20:06.53 | Adys | er |
| 20:06.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (~Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 20:06.53 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 20:06.56 | Adys | not sure what you want then |
| 20:07.03 | Dagmar | kd3: Yeah I'm not even addressing that. There's a reason one had to have what amounted to a quantum tuning fork to open some of them |
| 20:07.03 | Arrowmaster | you cant pull with local modifications |
| 20:07.07 | Adys | commit the work you dont want to lose, reset the rest |
| 20:07.13 | cbreak | Shirik: or just delete it |
| 20:07.14 | Adys | and then pull |
| 20:07.30 | cbreak | you can not pull with conflicting local modifications :) |
| 20:07.43 | cbreak | a git reset --hard will remove local modifications, same as a git checkout in file mode |
| 20:07.58 | Dagmar | Just give it the old rm -rf .?* and it'll solve all your problems |
| 20:08.21 | Adys | git clean -frdx is what you want actually Dagmar |
| 20:08.27 | Dagmar | o.O |
| 20:08.45 | Dagmar | I want you to look very carefully at the command I typed. |
| 20:08.57 | Shirik | rm -rf . / |
| 20:09.02 | Shirik | ^ worst mistake ever |
| 20:09.08 | Arrowmaster | there is no -r to git clean |
| 20:09.14 | Shirik | one space makes a huge difference |
| 20:09.17 | Adys | oh yeah |
| 20:09.18 | Adys | fdx |
| 20:09.19 | Adys | sorry |
| 20:09.45 | Dagmar | Shirik: Personally I think -r with .?* is way more sinister |
| 20:09.46 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@user-11215f7.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 20:09.47 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 20:09.55 | Dagmar | I mean, clearly Adys was looking straight at it and didn't see it |
| 20:10.16 | Adys | i still dont see it |
| 20:10.18 | Adys | even ls doesnt |
| 20:10.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 20:10.56 | Dagmar | .?* matches .. for one thing |
| 20:11.06 | Arrowmaster | not for me |
| 20:11.13 | Adys | yeah, Dagmar, "so"? |
| 20:11.25 | Dagmar | So what happens when you recursively delete the parent directort |
| 20:11.31 | Arrowmaster | i typed ls .?* and only got the contents of my homedir |
| 20:12.12 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: Type `ls -r .?*` and keep in mind that ls is slightly brighter than rm |
| 20:12.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Cairenn (~Guest9566@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 20:12.21 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 20:12.39 | Dagmar | Sorry, -R for le |
| 20:12.40 | Dagmar | er ls |
| 20:12.42 | kd3 | tangent, lol, fark headlines ftw: Britain's modern infrastructures vulnerable to solar flare, nuclear attack, Mr. Bean [Obvious] |
| 20:13.05 | Adys | shit |
| 20:13.07 | Adys | moving out of here |
| 20:13.11 | Arrowmaster | ls -R .?* |
| 20:13.11 | Arrowmaster | ls: cannot access .?*: No such file or directory |
| 20:13.12 | cbreak | oh my god |
| 20:13.18 | cbreak | vulnerable to nuclear attack |
| 20:13.20 | cbreak | ... |
| 20:13.21 | Dagmar | Just take my word for it that cp -r .?* /newhome/$user won't do what you want |
| 20:13.22 | cbreak | who is not? |
| 20:13.34 | cbreak | .?* matches . and ..? |
| 20:13.44 | Adys | yeah cbreak |
| 20:13.50 | Arrowmaster | its not for me |
| 20:13.52 | cbreak | inconvenient. |
| 20:13.58 | Adys | makes sense |
| 20:13.59 | Adys | but |
| 20:14.06 | Adys | rm -rf . / is still a lot more harmful :P |
| 20:14.17 | Adys | especially if you're stupid/unlucky enough to be running as root |
| 20:14.25 | cbreak | both are harmless as long as you don't care about your user data |
| 20:14.31 | Thunder_Child | ~cackle |
| 20:14.31 | purl | ACTION cackles |
| 20:14.38 | cbreak | ~backup |
| 20:14.38 | purl | backup is, like, described at http://www.handhelds.org/handhelds-faq/filesystems.html |
| 20:14.39 | Dagmar | One of the two is more determined to find your data |
| 20:14.39 | Arrowmaster | seriously i got "ls: cannot access .?*: No such file or directory" |
| 20:14.59 | cbreak | Arrowmaster: what OS? what shell? |
| 20:15.03 | Adys | Arrowmaster: debian. your ls probably doesn't support post-1992 syntax. |
| 20:15.05 | Arrowmaster | linux, zsh |
| 20:15.10 | Adys | too recent. |
| 20:15.22 | cbreak | purl, that is not backup |
| 20:15.22 | purl | I think you lost me on that one, cbreak |
| 20:15.22 | Dagmar | That's your fault for using zsh |
| 20:15.25 | Dagmar | Pervert |
| 20:15.35 | Adys | um |
| 20:15.36 | Arrowmaster | my zsh is too smart for you |
| 20:15.45 | Adys | .?* won't be extended by bash but by ls |
| 20:15.55 | Adys | .*? would be |
| 20:16.14 | Adys | so it's not zsh's fault |
| 20:16.42 | Shirik | ok thanks guys |
| 20:16.46 | Dagmar | It's globmatch()'s fault. |
| 20:16.46 | Shirik | we just did a reset |
| 20:17.06 | Shirik | feels kinda strange that you can't pull without committing |
| 20:17.14 | Shirik | but I guess that's because I'm used to svn |
| 20:17.29 | Dagmar | bleh rather glob() |
| 20:17.59 | cbreak | Shirik: you can |
| 20:18.03 | cbreak | unless there are commits |
| 20:18.06 | cbreak | conflicts I mean |
| 20:18.14 | Adys | No cbreak, you can't |
| 20:18.20 | Adys | pull will rebase |
| 20:18.26 | cbreak | I pull a lot with local changes |
| 20:18.34 | cbreak | pull will merge unless you do --rebase |
| 20:18.35 | Adys | not with shirik's setup, you can't |
| 20:18.54 | cbreak | but if you do a rebase pull, you should know what you're getting yourself into |
| 20:19.40 | Adys | i believe it depends how it was cloned in the first place |
| 20:19.51 | Adys | but generally you want rebase pulls |
| 20:20.02 | cbreak | the default is a normal pull |
| 20:20.15 | cbreak | rebase pulls are only useful if you work on unpublished feature branches |
| 20:20.28 | cbreak | or if the remote gets rebased itself |
| 20:20.37 | cbreak | or a few other, specific cases |
| 20:20.55 | cbreak | but I have not found out how to make pull default to rebase instead of merge :) |
| 20:21.00 | cbreak | (not that I tried to find out) |
| 20:21.10 | Adys | or very simply if you want to commit your work before you start messing around with other people's work :P |
| 20:21.18 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: so explain this http://pastey.net/140771 |
| 20:21.31 | cbreak | rebase won't save you from that |
| 20:21.42 | cbreak | you will get other people's work either way with a pull |
| 20:21.49 | cbreak | for that is it's purpose :) |
| 20:21.59 | Adys | rebase just applies your commits on top of the current head |
| 20:22.05 | Cairenn | Just a reminder guys, if you're going to BlizzCon and want to go to the Community Dinner on the Thursday night, you need to sign up sooner rather than later: http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35041 |
| 20:22.26 | Adys | thanks Cairenn |
| 20:22.29 | Adys | almost forgot |
| 20:22.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Fogger (~fogger@host109-152-67-110.range109-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 20:22.53 | cbreak | Adys: it reapplies your changes on top of the _new_ head |
| 20:22.54 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: zsh doesn't do glob matches. |
| 20:23.04 | cbreak | so you get the remote changes, the work from others, below your own commits |
| 20:23.06 | Adys | yeah cbreak |
| 20:23.10 | cbreak | this might cause problems in some cases |
| 20:23.17 | Adys | only if there are conflicts |
| 20:23.20 | cbreak | no |
| 20:23.22 | Thunder_Child | bah, chocolate |
| 20:23.23 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: exactly its passing it to rm in the first one |
| 20:23.28 | cbreak | there was an example in #git a few weeks ago |
| 20:23.41 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: Being that ? matches any one character, and * matches 0 or more characters, '..' will match '.?*' just fine with a globmatch |
| 20:23.42 | cbreak | where the end result of a rebase was consistent, but the intermediate results were made incompilable |
| 20:23.47 | cbreak | forgot the details though :( |
| 20:24.06 | cbreak | that might cause problems later on if you care about the history |
| 20:24.34 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: There's no need for debate on this, I killed my first damn internet site doing a recursive copy with .?*. Believe me I remember that it's bad. |
| 20:26.07 | Fisker | can i join Cairenn ? |
| 20:26.24 | Thunder_Child | no dinner via skype Fisker |
| 20:26.28 | Fisker | :( |
| 20:26.35 | Fisker | i don't use skype anyway |
| 20:26.42 | Fisker | but i can draw penises in mumble if you'd like |
| 20:26.59 | Dagmar | All I wanted was my dot directories copied into the new drive I'd installed, and I did something that I thought at the time was "clever". "Clever" and "shells" generally equals "bad". It kept recursively copying for about thirty minutes before running out of disk space and asploding |
| 20:27.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (Vilkku@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe0bfa00-122.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 20:27.15 | Thunder_Child | "Accidental Fish or Chicken" i would love to know how that came about |
| 20:28.53 | Torhal | Cairenn: Bah. You removed your phone number. I was going to make a comment about you using a burner phone. |
| 20:29.06 | Fisker | oh nos |
| 20:29.13 | Dagmar | Best part: The reason for the disk migration was that the other disk /home was already on was basically "in flames" and if I hadn't muffed that copy, I'd have been able to remount and just administratively disable the failing disk before it managed to lock the disk bus and crash the machine. |
| 20:29.13 | Fisker | she probably removed it when i just asked here now |
| 20:29.34 | Arrowmaster | Torhal: so i should write it down since i still have the page open with it on it? |
| 20:29.57 | Torhal | Arrowmaster: Your call. Just makes my joke pointless since she removed it. |
| 20:31.35 | p3lim | is there some easy way to create a title region in XML, alike :CreateTitleRegion() in lua? |
| 20:31.37 | p3lim | Lua |
| 20:31.50 | jnwhiteh | p3lim: yes\ |
| 20:32.04 | jnwhiteh | grep TitleRegion *.xml |
| 20:32.23 | p3lim | thanks jnwhiteh |
| 20:32.33 | jnwhiteh | yw |
| 20:33.25 | Fisker | hey jnwhiteh |
| 20:33.28 | kd3 | ! |
| 20:33.35 | kd3 | Latest bakery treat: brownies made with 200 mg. of pharmaceutical grade caffeine. Thank you "Snack In the Face Bakery" [Cool] |
| 20:33.46 | p3lim | jnwhiteh: thats within layers right? |
| 20:33.52 | kd3 | http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20100919/NEWS/9190336/Ames-bakery-harnesses-power-of-caffeine |
| 20:34.06 | cbreak | sounds like something think geek would sell |
| 20:34.14 | jnwhiteh | p3lim: nope |
| 20:34.21 | jnwhiteh | p3lim: the schema indicates this as well |
| 20:34.23 | cbreak | http://www.thinkgeek.com/caffeine/ |
| 20:34.23 | jnwhiteh | Fisker: heyas |
| 20:35.05 | p3lim | found some on wowwiki |
| 20:36.37 | Fisker | i just yawned jnwhiteh |
| 20:36.58 | Fisker | but my yawn was over capacity and i was like "baw" |
| 20:37.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@adsl-226-67-185.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 20:37.01 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 20:37.34 | Adys | anyone who has been to the UI dinner last year? |
| 20:37.40 | Adys | kd3, alestane |
| 20:38.05 | Adys | (or any year before) |
| 20:38.32 | Seerah | Adys: 2 years ago |
| 20:38.41 | Adys | how long does it usually last? |
| 20:38.45 | Dagmar | kd3: Am currently hassling the head barista and coffee buyer at Bongo Belmont about that right now. Thank yew. |
| 20:39.07 | Seerah | 2 years ago we went to benihana, so... got to eat as the food was cooked |
| 20:39.44 | Seerah | I'm sure it depends on how fast the service/kitchen is for a large group. I didn't go to BC last year, but the dinner was at the same place |
| 20:39.47 | Seerah | (as this year) |
| 20:40.15 | Seerah | Adys: however, I would plan on a couple hours |
| 20:40.34 | Adys | mmh ok |
| 20:40.42 | Seerah | at least 1.5 |
| 20:41.02 | Seerah | If they let us stay all night chatting and partying, I'm sure we will :p |
| 20:41.14 | Seerah | unless they wanna kick us out faster ;) |
| 20:43.06 | Fisker | sends Seerah some hax |
| 20:43.20 | Seerah | why thank you, Fisker |
| 20:44.01 | Torhal | Fisker: She's too old for hax now. |
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| 20:45.32 | Fisker | i hate the kind of raids where you get progressively worse from the beginning |
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| 20:46.39 | Thunder_Child | the one at benihanas ended rather early iirc |
| 20:47.07 | Thunder_Child | Adys: the answer however is "just go to the damn dinner" |
| 20:47.17 | Adys | Im going |
| 20:47.24 | Thunder_Child | good |
| 20:47.36 | Adys | with a knife to make sure you won't annoy me |
| 20:47.42 | Adys | and with a gun to make sure I eventually kill you |
| 20:47.51 | Thunder_Child | sounds like fun |
| 20:47.53 | Torhal | Adys: Use rock salt. |
| 20:47.58 | Adys | Im trying |
| 20:48.32 | Thunder_Child | somehow though Adys i suspect you are like Cairenn, you promise much, but then never deliver :( |
| 20:48.48 | Seerah | That year (benihana's) we had the dinner on Friday night. We started earlier, and people wanted to leave to try to catch the end of the contests |
| 20:48.52 | Adys | you can't possibly know that |
| 20:48.55 | Fisker | we have a word for that in danish Thunder_Child |
| 20:49.10 | Thunder_Child | Seerah: true enough |
| 20:49.18 | Thunder_Child | Adys: yes i can |
| 20:49.19 | Adys | Fisker: Käiren ? |
| 20:49.24 | Fisker | no |
| 20:49.46 | Adys | well I'm drawing a blænk then |
| 20:50.06 | Thunder_Child | ~lart Adys |
| 20:50.06 | purl | pries Adys's back open with a screwdriver and flashes a new bootldr to Adys |
| 20:50.23 | Adys | Thunder_Child: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZLfasMPOU4 |
| 20:50.35 | Fisker | well i was afraid of saying since the word could be translated in google |
| 20:50.41 | Thunder_Child | Adys: indeed |
| 20:50.42 | Fisker | unfortunately it can't |
| 20:50.48 | Fisker | err fortunately* |
| 20:50.57 | Fisker | unfortunately it translates to something even worse |
| 20:51.24 | Kraps | ok, warriors, do you find it harder or not to tank in beta/ptr? |
| 20:54.00 | Adys | what do you mean? |
| 20:54.19 | Adys | since they pretty much removed threat with the changes last build, it doesn't make much sense |
| 20:55.13 | Kraps | removed threat? :/ |
| 20:55.35 | Stanzilla | aoe tanking is shitty atm |
| 20:55.41 | Kraps | yeah |
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| 21:00.50 | Kraps | why doesnt the water move :( |
| 21:01.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Xyphoid (~xyph@unaffiliated/xyphoid) |
| 21:01.09 | Dagmar | You didn't say "please". |
| 21:02.43 | Fisker | you will be blown up for free Kraps |
| 21:03.33 | p3lim | the argument of debugstack() and debuglocals(), I see blizzard use 4, but should I use 4 aswell I get a different result |
| 21:03.46 | Kraps | i dont trust you Fisker |
| 21:03.57 | Fisker | i'll see you in hell Kraps |
| 21:06.55 | Kraps | http://cdn.cad-comic.com/comics/4182906669c11694ud2g6f8017142.jpg which circle fisker? |
| 21:09.49 | Kraps | or is it this one http://www.synthstuff.com/mt/archives/08/2010/dantes-internet.jpg |
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| 21:23.08 | p3lim | how hard would it be to implement mousewheel scrolling in a ScrollFrame through XML without using any kind of template? :p |
| 21:24.59 | *** part/#wowuidev flexd (flexd@eve-kill.net) |
| 21:27.37 | foxlit | > print("'" .. tostring(0) .. "'"); |
| 21:27.38 | foxlit | '' |
| 21:27.38 | Torhal | p3lim: I'm not qualified to answer that; I use only Lua. |
| 21:27.42 | foxlit | I think I broke it :( |
| 21:32.21 | DWSR | HOLY SHIT @ the Plants vs. Zombies clone in Cataclysm. |
| 21:32.27 | DWSR | I mean, REALLY? |
| 21:33.07 | foxlit | mm? |
| 21:33.17 | Dagmar | Yeah I'm impressed they got the publisher to sign off on that |
| 21:33.18 | Dagmar | :P |
| 21:33.23 | Dagmar | er ;) |
| 21:33.45 | batrick | Cairenn: should get this shirt http://shirt.woot.com/shirts/sabertooth-can-haz-cheezburger |
| 21:35.13 | DWSR | lol |
| 21:35.13 | DWSR | Dude. |
| 21:35.14 | krka_ | crap |
| 21:35.15 | DWSR | It's AMAZING |
| 21:35.33 | krka_ | extremists in our parliament |
| 21:36.18 | foxlit | krka_: can has pirates in parliament? |
| 21:36.34 | krka_ | nope |
| 21:37.10 | krka_ | probably less than 0.5 percent |
| 21:37.24 | Kraps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3R84OrJN0_Q&feature=channel ahahahaha |
| 21:38.03 | foxlit | so animations are bugged as usual |
| 21:39.50 | foxlit | batrick: awesome shirt; though picture could stand to be larger. |
| 21:42.04 | Cide- | fail election imo |
| 21:42.13 | Adys | Kraps: hahah |
| 21:42.47 | cbreak | in SC2, if you get promoted or demoted to an other league |
| 21:42.51 | Cide- | only ~0.3 percentage points away from majority |
| 21:42.55 | cbreak | do you lose your rating points and win/loss ratio? |
| 21:43.28 | Cide- | I believe you lose win/loss ratio but you get rating points according to how the system believes you are placed (I believe****) |
| 21:44.09 | cbreak | I am in bronze 2v2 since a week or so, on rank 1 |
| 21:44.13 | Xinhuan | cbreak, u lose points |
| 21:44.14 | cbreak | wonder if I ever get promoted :) |
| 21:44.17 | Xinhuan | but not sure on win/lose ratio |
| 21:44.38 | Xinhuan | that's because 2000 points in say silver league isn't the same as even 1500 points in diamond |
| 21:44.54 | cbreak | well... I have 740 in bronze :) |
| 21:44.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Silker (~ponies@5ad20c20.bb.sky.com) |
| 21:45.11 | Xinhuan | expect 20% to half of that to disappear if you get promoted |
| 21:45.19 | cbreak | don't really care about points |
| 21:45.20 | Adys | YES |
| 21:45.21 | Adys | FINALLY |
| 21:45.25 | cbreak | but I wonder when the promotion happens |
| 21:45.27 | Adys | I converted a java dev to Python |
| 21:45.28 | Adys | \o/ |
| 21:45.33 | cbreak | it's probably somehow related with internal rating |
| 21:45.45 | cbreak | python and java are totally differently targeted |
| 21:45.53 | Adys | shut up Im happy. |
| 21:45.58 | Adys | also no they're not |
| 21:46.04 | cbreak | java is for web apps, platform independent apps and "servers" |
| 21:46.08 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 21:46.09 | cbreak | python is for scripting |
| 21:46.10 | Adys | so is python |
| 21:46.13 | Adys | what? |
| 21:46.22 | cbreak | I've not seen a single browser that can do python |
| 21:46.28 | Adys | wtf? |
| 21:46.50 | Adys | how's that even related? |
| 21:46.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Thrae (~ircuser@generalmx-1-pt.tunnel.tserv13.ash1.ipv6.he.net) |
| 21:47.06 | cbreak | cbreak: java is for web apps, platform independent apps and "servers" |
| 21:47.12 | Adys | so? |
| 21:47.23 | Adys | python is for web apps, platform independent apps and servers too |
| 21:47.23 | cbreak | web apps like java applets... |
| 21:47.24 | Cide- | python does web apps |
| 21:47.28 | Cide- | just not java applets |
| 21:47.29 | cbreak | python can not do that |
| 21:47.34 | Cide- | that's an incredibly strict definition of "web apps" |
| 21:47.34 | Adys | java applets are pointless |
| 21:47.36 | cbreak | because they can not run in the browser |
| 21:47.42 | Xyphoid | java applets are a withered technology |
| 21:47.43 | Adys | that's not a web app |
| 21:47.49 | Cide- | the common definition of "web apps" are ajax-based applications like gmail |
| 21:47.50 | Adys | it's a browser-based app |
| 21:47.57 | Adys | as in, browser-plugin-based app |
| 21:48.02 | cbreak | the only types of web apps I have seen are: |
| 21:48.06 | cbreak | plugin based active x things |
| 21:48.10 | cbreak | java applets |
| 21:48.14 | cbreak | and java script based things |
| 21:48.16 | cbreak | and of course, flash |
| 21:48.18 | Cide- | that's not a web app though |
| 21:48.19 | Xyphoid | wikipedia is a web app |
| 21:48.22 | Cide- | by the common definition |
| 21:48.29 | Adys | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_application |
| 21:48.33 | *** join/#wowuidev robokitty (~roboe@50A2E6C0.flatrate.dk) |
| 21:48.42 | Adys | A web application is an application that is accessed over a network such as the Internet or an intranet. |
| 21:48.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Ketho (~Ketho@ip565063bd.direct-adsl.nl) |
| 21:48.53 | Adys | you *can* call a java applet a web app |
| 21:48.53 | Cide- | The term may also mean a computer software application that is hosted in a browser-controlled environment (e.g. a Java applet)[citation needed] or coded in a browser-supported language (such as JavaScript, combined with a browser-rendered markup language like HTML |
| 21:49.00 | Adys | but you can't call a web app a java applet |
| 21:49.42 | Cide- | regardless |
| 21:49.45 | Adys | either way, java applets are way outdated and the last use of the language you'd think of |
| 21:49.47 | Cide- | no, python doesn't do java applets |
| 21:49.52 | Cide- | but java applets are fucking retarded |
| 21:49.59 | Adys | *apart* from those, python and java have the same target |
| 21:50.16 | Adys | (java's target audience is more restricted) |
| 21:50.51 | Cide- | java's mantra is "idiots without deadlines" |
| 21:50.53 | Cide- | imo |
| 21:51.03 | Adys | ouch |
| 21:51.16 | Adys | anyway Im happy |
| 21:51.23 | Adys | made a java dev see the Light |
| 21:52.13 | Adys | Cide-: gimme a star dude :( |
| 21:52.18 | Cide- | * |
| 21:52.23 | Adys | a globstar |
| 21:52.29 | Cide- | what? |
| 21:52.33 | Adys | ** ! |
| 21:52.34 | Adys | also |
| 21:52.36 | Cide- | ** |
| 21:52.42 | Adys | can someone give me the US version of this: |
| 21:52.43 | Adys | http://ftp.4players.de/pub/pc2/wow/400/WoW-3.3.0.10958-4.0.0.12911-EU-Stage-1.zip |
| 21:52.50 | Adys | (a link or whatever) |
| 21:52.54 | Adys | my google-fu is failing =( |
| 21:53.22 | foxlit | http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_mirrors |
| 21:53.36 | Cide- | http://ftp.4players.de/pub/pc2/wow/400/WoW-3.3.0.10958-4.0.0.12911z--Stage-1.zip |
| 21:53.40 | Cide- | er |
| 21:53.51 | Cide- | http://ftp.4players.de/pub/pc2/wow/400/WoW-3.3.0.10958-4.0.0.12911-US-Stage-1.zip |
| 21:53.59 | Adys | 404 Not found |
| 21:54.02 | Adys | ty4trying |
| 21:54.03 | Cide- | owned |
| 21:54.39 | Adys | also er foxlit |
| 21:54.42 | Adys | those are all EU |
| 21:54.50 | Adys | i need stage2 us |
| 21:54.58 | foxlit | That's not what you asked for. |
| 21:56.55 | Adys | hm |
| 21:57.00 | Adys | apparently it's not up on US servs yet |
| 21:57.07 | Adys | that sheds some light |
| 21:57.56 | Adys | "Do you have an intel or ATI card?" -- Bugzilla |
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| 22:21.11 | Dagmar | Gardesas: PayPal, and it's probably long since the deadline for anything like htat |
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| 23:01.10 | Kraps | best shamwow parody ever http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYkjLUMx19I |
| 23:02.23 | p3lim | what is the XML equaliant of :EnableMouseWheel() ? |
| 23:11.50 | *** part/#wowuidev mitchnull (~mitchnull@catv3EC944A1.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 23:17.17 | Kraps | http://www.gamespot.com/greatest-video-game-villain/vote/index.html?tag=content_nav;vote |
| 23:22.24 | Kraps | http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p250/SOEJess/worgencompare.png |
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| 23:39.47 | Corrodias | choosing between two games i've never played... i think i'll stay out of this one |
| 23:40.35 | Corrodias | of course, most of the people voting are probably basing their decision on SC1 and the star wars movies, not the games in question |
| 23:40.39 | Corrodias | what a crock it shall be |
| 23:40.52 | A-KO | Kerrigan's winning |
| 23:40.59 | A-KO | 65.9% to 34.1% |
| 23:42.17 | ckknight | Kraps: I much prefer the previous worgen female |
| 23:47.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Ycarene (jporterf@24-116-56-41.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 23:50.34 | Adys | http://i.imgur.com/JfKzH.png |
| 23:50.45 | Adys | Minimalism vs Stupidity: Designers, embrace! |
| 23:51.03 | Adys | "Small top bar is good right? Let's merge the URl and tab bar" |
| 23:51.10 | p3lim | quite happy with the outcome: http://p3lim.net/wow/dev/console.jpg |
| 23:53.37 | Corrodias | Adys: which one are you suggesting is better? |
| 23:53.42 | Corrodias | if either |
| 23:54.04 | Adys | IE's idea of merging tab and url bar is incredibly stupid |
| 23:54.07 | Corrodias | or did i just completely miss the point here |
| 23:54.10 | Corrodias | all right, yes |
| 23:54.25 | p3lim | I like how firefox looks right now |
| 23:54.33 | Adys | right now being? 3.6? |
| 23:54.35 | Corrodias | by "right now" do you mean the 4 beta? |
| 23:54.45 | p3lim | beta, 4b6 |
| 23:55.27 | Adys | FF is a dead browser for other reasons that won't be fixed in the next few decades so meh |
| 23:55.32 | Corrodias | ugh, it's taking me more than 30 seconds to find a screenshot |
| 23:55.51 | Corrodias | yet chrome is so anemic that it can't take its place, so... back to netscape, everyone? |
| 23:56.36 | Adys | god knows how many hours of development it's taking to so many people to keep some applications vaguely on par *one browser* |
| 23:56.54 | Adys | so fucking shitscared they'll lose their marketshare |
| 23:56.58 | p3lim | http://i.imgur.com/nVz9d.png |
| 23:57.09 | Adys | osh!t someone out there is doing better than me |
| 23:57.11 | Corrodias | to keep what applications on par with a browser? what? |
| 23:57.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Sliker[Bed] (~ponies@5ad20c20.bb.sky.com) |
| 23:57.27 | ccox | new female worgen face says: "I need more immodium" |
| 23:57.27 | p3lim | (dont mind the button right next to the url bar, its a plugin ive made myself and the icons are bugged) |
| 23:57.58 | Adys | Corrodias: all the current browser betas are changing to adopt chrome's UI design |
| 23:58.33 | Adys | and tbh, even IE9 gets it more right than firefox by actually trying out designs |
| 23:58.40 | Adys | instead of flat out copying |
| 23:58.51 | p3lim | the tab grouping feature in firefox 4b is very nice |
| 23:59.14 | Corrodias | so you say. but copying is the path to success in design. |
| 23:59.24 | Adys | so fucking wrong |
| 23:59.31 | Adys | learning is the path to success |
| 23:59.53 | Corrodias | so you're suggesting we adopt IE and its bad design because it's different? |
| 23:59.55 | Adys | you don't learn by copying, you learn by understanding how and why something is good |
