| 00:00.04 | Kraps | versus BC dungeons |
| 00:00.27 | Lunessa | Thunder_Child: Despite all the crap we trade back and forth, I fully expect to buy you a beer or three. You're my kind of asshole. |
| 00:00.47 | Lunessa | And on that note, time for me to go home. |
| 00:00.54 | Thunder_Child | Lunessa: you shouldnt, i dont drink |
| 00:00.57 | Thunder_Child | .... |
| 00:01.22 | Thunder_Child | but i apreciate the sentiment |
| 00:01.40 | Kraps | if you spoke to lunessa when hes not here, does it make a sound? |
| 00:03.16 | Thunder_Child | you heard me |
| 00:03.26 | Thunder_Child | though, the answer would be no |
| 00:03.29 | Thunder_Child | since we are typing |
| 00:03.45 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (~theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 00:03.49 | *** join/#wowuidev SqueeG (~ZomgInter@cpe-24-161-96-151.hvc.res.rr.com) |
| 00:05.16 | Jerub | okay, i've retaken the echo isles. |
| 00:05.25 | Jerub | now to faction transfer and retake gnomer. |
| 00:05.26 | Jerub | :D |
| 00:05.50 | Xyphoid | there were a lot of typos in those quests, quite embarassing |
| 00:07.28 | *** join/#wowuidev cralor (~cralor@c-75-68-70-97.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 00:08.13 | Jerub | i'll read them next time i do them. honest. |
| 00:08.29 | Jerub | also, does anyone know if they turn into dailies? or is it just the one short chain |
| 00:08.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Sliker[Bed] (~ponies@5ac455a8.bb.sky.com) |
| 00:09.04 | kd3 | just the one chain |
| 00:09.22 | Wobin | http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2010/09/this-is-how-a-heavy-storm-looks-inside-a-cruise-liner/ |
| 00:09.44 | Wobin | (note it's actually from 2 years ago) |
| 00:10.21 | Jerub | Wobin: we have a government! |
| 00:10.52 | Wobin | I know! |
| 00:10.54 | Wobin | finally! |
| 00:11.24 | Wobin | I love how Ms Gillard says "We'll be held to a higher accountability due to the independants" |
| 00:11.38 | Wobin | cause they could have been much -less- accountable for their actions if they'd won landslide =P |
| 00:12.01 | Wobin | So it's much more "Keeping the Bastards Honest" =P |
| 00:12.04 | SqueeG | holy shit |
| 00:12.29 | SqueeG | that dude was whacked with a cabinet xD |
| 00:12.52 | Wobin | SqueeG: It's like watching Inception =P |
| 00:13.14 | *** join/#wowuidev kapipi (~taro@2001:268:306:1:222:15ff:fe9e:d4c5) |
| 00:14.44 | SqueeG | That's redonkulous xD |
| 00:18.40 | Thunder_Child | people who make programs w/o uninstallers should be shot |
| 00:18.42 | SqueeG | is this mail from 'Vanira' official? |
| 00:21.57 | Wobin | http://i.imgur.com/Z4iQ8.jpg |
| 00:24.08 | SqueeG | ahaha |
| 00:25.13 | Cidan | oh wow |
| 00:25.28 | Cidan | I think they're starting the gnomer events already |
| 00:25.36 | Cidan | Cata is coming sooner than I thought |
| 00:27.56 | SqueeG | Yea, i just got mail about the troll event |
| 00:28.05 | SqueeG | I was confuzzled |
| 00:28.32 | SqueeG | Considering the state of beta though... |
| 00:29.02 | *** join/#wowuidev feeserrm (~bob@c-76-117-24-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 00:29.22 | SqueeG | I can't imagine they'd be prepping for release this soon |
| 00:29.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Parnic (user@torn.xboxapps.org) |
| 00:30.19 | Kraps | likely their internal beta build is much more along than whats on the servers |
| 00:30.32 | Alram | yeah |
| 00:30.38 | Alram | about a week or two |
| 00:31.42 | SqueeG | a week or two before release? |
| 00:31.45 | SqueeG | or a week or two ahead? |
| 00:32.05 | Alram | ahead |
| 00:32.52 | *** join/#wowuidev feeserrm (~bob@c-76-117-24-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 00:34.43 | Cidan | Interesting |
| 00:34.50 | Mikk | Wobin: lmao =) |
| 00:36.04 | Thunder_Child | figures puzzle quest is on sale a few days agter i buy it |
| 00:36.58 | Thunder_Child | after* |
| 00:37.06 | kapipi | Cidan: Could you link to the info about gnomeregan event? |
| 00:37.17 | kd3 | www.wowwiki.com/Operation:_Gnomeregan |
| 00:37.20 | kd3 | ^ |
| 00:38.59 | kapipi | thanks |
| 00:39.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko1 (~Kandoko@adsl-068-159-119-207.sip.gsp.bellsouth.net) |
| 00:39.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (~Kandoko@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 00:40.20 | *** join/#wowuidev the-golem (~Darrin@c-98-255-201-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 00:43.55 | *** join/#wowuidev feeserrm (~bob@c-76-117-24-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 00:44.44 | *** join/#wowuidev feeserrm_ (~bob@c-76-117-24-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 00:46.03 | *** join/#wowuidev feeserrm__ (~bob@c-76-117-24-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 00:52.26 | Cidan | wow |
| 00:52.27 | Cidan | neat |
| 00:52.27 | Cidan | xD |
| 00:54.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Legorol (~legorol@cpc8-sgyl28-2-0-cust43.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 00:54.11 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Legorol] by ChanServ |
| 00:58.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (amarande@68-191-37-155.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 00:59.03 | Amarande | G'evening :) |
| 01:07.04 | ckknight | howdy, Amarande |
| 01:09.33 | A-KO | okay |
| 01:09.36 | A-KO | AT&T is fucking nuts |
| 01:09.57 | kd3 | ooh, the Fibonacci sequence |
| 01:10.06 | A-KO | they've got a 200MB/month $15/month data plan for the iphone.....in 12 days, of which I connect to 2 wifi networks (work and home)--I've used 264MB of data. And I *rarely* download anything over the wifi. |
| 01:10.10 | A-KO | err over the 3g |
| 01:11.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (~muffins@c-69-143-56-163.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 01:13.55 | NightHawkTheSane | waits in line for a William gibson reading. :) |
| 01:14.03 | Amarande | heya ckknight. trip home from Con go ok? |
| 01:14.10 | Tuller | so is my theory correct in that GetItemInfo in the beta is subject to the same dynamic loading as the rest of the client? |
| 01:23.40 | Dagmar | Tog Rustsprocket is a buggy little bastard |
| 01:32.36 | *** join/#wowuidev feeserrm_ (~bob@c-76-117-24-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 01:45.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Schnaks (~Schnaks@p4FC4FD36.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 01:45.07 | ckknight | Amarande: yep, went well enough |
| 01:57.31 | SqueeG | O_o what's with google's logo today'? |
| 01:59.29 | Kraps | anniversary |
| 02:02.22 | Thunder_Child | and it's /awesome/ |
| 02:02.48 | Cidan | Ya, animated dom's, so pretty |
| 02:04.37 | Kraps | http://store.steampowered.com/app/70300/ |
| 02:06.09 | kapipi | Hmm, I guess the anniversary already passed here. |
| 02:07.07 | *** part/#wowuidev cralor (~cralor@c-75-68-70-97.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 02:11.51 | ckknight | Kraps: that seems like a flash game. |
| 02:12.48 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 02:12.48 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 02:13.30 | Xyphoid | there is a flash demo |
| 02:13.33 | Xyphoid | it's pretty cool |
| 02:14.45 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (~bluspacec@60-234-165-167.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) |
| 02:15.56 | kapipi | But it's sooo yesterday. |
| 02:16.22 | Kraps | "I hate this game. Its too damn scary." http://store.steampowered.com/app/57300/ ahahahaha |
| 02:19.42 | Kraps | Secret of the Magic Crystals is only $4.99 now! |
| 02:21.50 | Parnic | awww, no IceHUD listed on http://www.wowinterface.com/betaguide.php = sad Parnic :( |
| 02:22.29 | Kraps | icehud is win |
| 02:22.41 | Parnic | and it's cataclysmed, too. |
| 02:22.42 | Kraps | i have trouble playing without it |
| 02:27.09 | Arrowmaster | Kraps: oh hey it seems i preordered that at some point |
| 02:28.24 | ckknight | Parnic: http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/tags/cataclysm/default.aspx |
| 02:28.33 | Parnic | yay :) |
| 02:28.40 | Parnic | <3 ck |
| 02:29.15 | ckknight | :) |
| 02:29.26 | ckknight | there's gonna be a link to there once we get more addons going |
| 02:29.38 | Cairenn | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/latest.php?cataclysm |
| 02:29.40 | Parnic | i guess i should push a new release version to curse to formalize it |
| 02:30.04 | A-KO | http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1437678296402 |
| 02:30.41 | Arrowmaster | i was just about to scream out "NO!!!!" as i noticed my one email address had 1 item in the spam folder finally but then i noticed it was just one of kd3's interface diffs |
| 02:30.59 | Arrowmaster | still never had a single spam to that address in over a year |
| 02:31.08 | Parnic | which email address? ;) |
| 02:31.14 | ckknight | lulz, A-KO |
| 02:31.19 | Arrowmaster | 2 or 3 years actually i think since i need to renew it now |
| 02:32.10 | Arrowmaster | i do i add somebody to my contact list in gmail from one of their emails |
| 02:32.38 | bluspacecow | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj_B7YO9uWc |
| 02:35.25 | bluspacecow | http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/a4cf8ae3-522e-4a99-a98b-fc29ec16b855.jpg |
| 02:35.28 | Duman | hmm |
| 02:35.35 | Dagmar | burns an effigy of Tog Rustsprocket |
| 02:36.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh`` (~funk@82.111.115.128) |
| 02:42.37 | Kraps | shit that game makes my head throb |
| 02:43.44 | Kraps | and im not even in a dark room |
| 02:44.22 | Amarande | Evening Cairenn :) |
| 02:44.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (~Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:44.29 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 02:44.33 | Cairenn | hi |
| 02:44.34 | Arrowmaster | Kraps: what game? |
| 02:44.36 | Stanzilla | Kraps: other things throb in darkrooms :> |
| 02:44.37 | Amarande | how's it going? |
| 02:45.00 | Kraps | Arrowmaster: http://store.steampowered.com/app/57300/ |
| 02:45.09 | Cairenn | meh |
| 02:45.11 | Arrowmaster | but its not out yet is it |
| 02:45.23 | Kraps | demo |
| 02:45.30 | bluspacecow | demo ftw |
| 02:46.02 | Iriel | is it any good? |
| 02:46.06 | Amarande | just got back from con a couple hours ago here |
| 02:46.06 | Iriel | [Sorry, joined late] |
| 02:47.37 | Kraps | imo if you do this http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1426991 it will scare the shit out of you, probably literally |
| 02:49.38 | Cairenn | have a good time? |
| 02:49.45 | Amarande | pretty good, yeah |
| 02:49.56 | Amarande | actually met ckknight at one point too |
| 02:49.59 | ckknight | yea |
| 02:50.13 | ckknight | I was hanging with my gf, though :P |
| 02:50.22 | Amarande | lol |
| 02:50.40 | Amarande | I was just happy to FINALLY be able to pick up GURPS Illuminati |
| 02:50.47 | ckknight | wasn't mentally prepared to meet people :P |
| 02:51.00 | ckknight | Q: If you go to bed 8 hours before you have to wake up, and your wife wants to have 2 hours of sex, how much sleep will you get? |
| 02:51.02 | ckknight | A: 7 hours, 57 minutes - who cares what she wants! |
| 02:51.09 | Amarande | actually I picked up quite a lot of loot this con |
| 02:51.18 | ckknight | Amarande: I don't think I picked up any, actually. |
| 02:51.23 | ckknight | outside of business cards :P |
| 02:51.30 | Amarande | ckknight: and the next night you'll get 8 hours, because she'll have ditched you for that! :D |
| 02:51.42 | ckknight | lol. |
| 02:56.03 | *** join/#wowuidev |Jelly| (~chatzilla@99-99-194-150.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:56.10 | SqueeG | shit happens :p |
| 03:01.58 | harl | later then |
| 03:02.05 | harl | nite |
| 03:02.35 | Parnic | are character copies still broken? |
| 03:02.52 | Parnic | for cataclysm, that is |
| 03:04.38 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 03:04.38 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 03:11.12 | Jerub | is http://db.mmo-champion.com/q/25228/prophecies-of-doom/ active yet? |
| 03:11.25 | *** join/#wowuidev SeanK (~SeanK@pool-98-117-120-73.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 03:17.25 | Amarande | gaaaarrghhh. |
| 03:17.33 | Amarande | I bought a mug at Con and it got damaged in transit home |
| 03:17.39 | ckknight | lame |
| 03:17.41 | Amarande | now I'm gonna have to get krazy glue when I go to the store next. |
| 03:17.47 | Iriel | Anyone need Cata Pve Alliance guild invites, since i'm on? |
| 03:18.37 | Motig | yes me still Iriel! :P |
| 03:18.39 | Motig | but! |
| 03:18.43 | Motig | the loging server is busy it seems..... |
| 03:18.51 | Motig | oh wait |
| 03:18.54 | Motig | isn't it down for maintenance? |
| 03:18.57 | Iriel | I logged in minutes ago |
| 03:19.43 | Amarande | otoh, at least the shot glass I bought is still intact. :) |
| 03:20.14 | Parnic | iriel: i do. Pernicion |
| 03:20.23 | Motig | ah well |
| 03:21.24 | Amarande | gah |
| 03:21.26 | Amarande | so tired after con |
| 03:21.34 | Amarande | don't even really feel like doing my netherwing dailies |
| 03:21.34 | Parnic | thanks |
| 03:21.35 | Amarande | :( |
| 03:22.04 | Motig | what "con"? |
| 03:22.55 | |Jelly| | pax? |
| 03:23.06 | Amarande | Motig: Dragon Con |
| 03:23.32 | Amarande | I go to Atlanta for six days and five nights ... of which I get sleep maybe one night |
| 03:24.12 | Motig | well then it doesn't surprise me you're tired! |
| 03:24.38 | Motig | seems like it's pretty big |
| 03:25.14 | Amarande | hell yeah. |
| 03:29.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal_ (~callahan@74-141-246-74.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 03:29.22 | Dagmar | It's so damn big Atlanta told the *Shriners* "no" a couple of years ago when there was a scheduling conflict |
| 03:29.32 | mikma | wobin: http://www.geekologie.com/2010/09/wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.php |
| 03:29.32 | Dagmar | SOmething like 30,000 freaks with pockets full of spending money |
| 03:31.36 | Dagmar | THAT is fuckin' awesome |
| 03:33.24 | Dagmar | SOme captain is probably still chewing on his crew "Where the hell were the tie downs on the tow motor??" |
| 03:33.47 | Wobin | mikma: [10:09:20] <Wobin> http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2010/09/this-is-how-a-heavy-storm-looks-inside-a-cruise-liner/ |
| 03:36.11 | mikma | umf, that page wants to get stuff from 10 different web address :I |
| 03:36.55 | Dagmar | That's Gizmodo for you |
| 03:37.19 | Arrowmaster | wow.com looks about the same in noscripts list |
| 03:37.41 | Arrowmaster | just about all the 'news blogs' sites are like that |
| 03:38.35 | Amarande | fears to check my account on AmEx's site now. |
| 03:39.44 | Amarande | I don't really want to know *just* yet *exactly* how much I spent at Con. |
| 03:39.49 | *** join/#wowuidev |Jelly| (~User@99-99-194-150.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:42.31 | Dagmar | So just write Amex a check for however much you *guess* you spent |
| 03:49.56 | Amarande | heh. |
| 03:50.03 | Amarande | the stuff I bought at Con doesn't come due till October. |
| 03:51.59 | Motig | what's the most exciting thing you've bought |
| 03:52.15 | Dagmar | Don't say "batlev" |
| 03:54.21 | Kraps | mafia 2 looks awesome |
| 03:55.44 | Amarande | Motig: that's a secret. :) |
| 03:56.14 | *** join/#wowuidev feeserrm (~bob@c-76-117-24-73.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 03:56.21 | Amarande | That's something for me, my *closest* associates, and people I associate with in specific circles *only* to know, basically. :) |
| 03:57.52 | Motig | I should never have asked |
| 04:00.39 | Amarande | *awkward moment of silence* |
| 04:04.36 | Kraps | lol at the new google logo |
| 04:15.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Corrodias (no@96-40-253-184.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com) |
| 04:23.44 | Shirik | hey |
| 04:23.44 | Shirik | hey hey |
| 04:23.49 | Shirik | who wants to be incredibly awesome? |
| 04:24.09 | Jerub | Shirik: well, i am already. |
| 04:24.12 | Shirik | ok cool |
| 04:24.14 | Shirik | you can do this then |
| 04:24.39 | Shirik | Go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:BlockList&limit=500 |
| 04:24.52 | Shirik | Search for the line that says Shirik (talk | contribs | block) blocked #2064183 (expires on 8 September 2010 at 15:09, account creation blocked) (Autoblocked because your IP address was recently used by "Fronkhy". The reason given for Fronkhy's block is: "Abusing multiple accounts".) (unblock) |
| 04:25.01 | Shirik | And tell me what timestamp you see for that |
| 04:25.55 | ccox | 22:09, 7 September 2010, Shirik (talk | contribs) blocked #2064183 (expires on 8 September 2010 at 22:09, |
| 04:26.01 | Shirik | ok now |
| 04:26.15 | Shirik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Thgo |
| 04:26.17 | Shirik | There's only one entry |
| 04:26.20 | Shirik | what's the timestamp on there? |
| 04:26.35 | ccox | 03:17, 8 September 2010 (diff | hist) N User talk:Thgo â (âCreated page with '{{unblock-auto|1=150.212.49.233|2=<nowiki>Autoblocked |
| 04:26.35 | Jerub | 8 September 2010 at 22:09 |
| 04:26.39 | Shirik | I'm asking this because I can't tell if my local time converter is screwing up or not |
| 04:26.42 | Shirik | ok thanks |
| 04:26.51 | Jerub | 03:17, 8 September 2010 |
| 04:28.26 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@adsl-41-127-70.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 04:34.37 | *** join/#wowuidev cygni (~slip@cm145-182.resnet.csumb.edu) |
| 04:45.34 | *** join/#wowuidev hfdixus (~opera@91.192.189.123) |
| 05:13.01 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 05:13.03 | Fisker | i'm raging |
| 05:14.38 | Fisker | great |
| 05:14.52 | Fisker | looks like the battery on my nexus one is busted |
| 05:15.48 | Amarande | :( |
| 05:16.01 | Amarande | and they probably don't make the batteries anymore I'm imagining since the phone is discontinued |
| 05:16.08 | Fisker | it isn't discontinued |
| 05:16.41 | Fisker | anyway my battery somehow discharged during the night, and it was at like 80% |
| 05:16.58 | Fisker | and the battery level stays red when plugged in |
| 05:17.05 | Fisker | shouldn't it indicate it was charging? |
| 05:18.53 | Fisker | hmm |
| 05:19.00 | Fisker | the battery status page says it's charging atleast |
| 05:19.05 | Fisker | but the animation doesn't play |
| 05:19.10 | Fisker | and the lockscreen is stuck at 0% battery |
| 05:19.11 | Fisker | ;o |
| 05:20.09 | Fisker | if only i could've overslept |
| 05:20.15 | Fisker | damn biological clock |
| 05:21.38 | Fisker | oh my! |
| 05:21.42 | Fisker | my lockscreen has updated |
| 05:21.45 | Fisker | 2% battery!1 |
| 05:22.11 | Torhal_ | throws Zaladane at Fisker. |
| 05:22.37 | Parnic | is your modem working yet Torhal? :P |
| 05:24.06 | *** join/#wowuidev bryno (~bryno@cpe-67-11-189-252.satx.res.rr.com) |
| 05:24.08 | *** join/#wowuidev bryno (~bryno@unaffiliated/bryno) |
| 05:26.28 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 05:26.28 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 05:27.23 | *** join/#wowuidev EvilPete (evilpete@192.203.228.68) |
| 05:41.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~callahan@74-141-246-74.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 05:44.01 | a-stray-cat | is there an api call for getting spell haste? |
| 05:45.07 | Fisker | i cannot be stopped by anyone not even Torhal |
| 05:47.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Iso` (~Iso@192.102.224.65) |
| 05:51.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Mike-N-Go (~Mike-N-Go@64.193.93.197) |
| 05:51.43 | Mike-N-Go | How we all doing tonight? |
| 05:52.19 | Parnic | just healing a dk tank in h-strat that's taking way too much damage |
| 05:52.54 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-76-116-64-179.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 05:53.21 | Jerub | Parnic: get his name and realm? bring up armory and check if he was defcapped or wearing spirit gear |
| 05:53.39 | Jerub | i very nearly tanked hpos in my resto gear yesterday |
| 05:54.00 | Jerub | was a teensy bit squishy. |
| 05:54.20 | Parnic | heh, i'm sure it's just the age-old DK problem |
| 05:54.28 | Parnic | my dk is like 2900 gs and i still feel really squishy |
| 05:54.56 | Jerub | at 535 defence already at 2900gs? |
| 05:55.15 | Parnic | no my dk is like 565 def or something |
| 05:55.28 | Mike-N-Go | is a fly on the wall. |
| 05:55.39 | Parnic | 2900 wow-heroes gs |
| 05:55.41 | Parnic | not addon gs :P |
| 05:55.47 | Jerub | oh, right. sorry. |
| 05:56.02 | Jerub | was thinking, 2900 isn't even 2T9 yet. |
| 05:56.08 | Parnic | heh |
| 05:56.16 | Parnic | all badge gear, no raid stuff |
| 05:56.18 | Jerub | i don't use GS personally, but i know what maps to what in terms of ilvl and gearish |
| 05:57.09 | Parnic | i only use it because my entire realm relies on it |
| 05:57.26 | Jerub | tee hee. |
| 05:57.36 | Jerub | i say "no" when asked for GS. no one bothers me. |
| 05:57.46 | Parnic | trade chat is a constant stream of "need x GS tank for " whatever |
| 05:58.02 | Jerub | and i just whisper and say "tank here" or "heals here" |
| 05:58.07 | Jerub | and ignore them if they demand gs. |
| 05:58.14 | *** join/#wowuidev zenzio (~zenzio__@85.19.77.194) |
| 05:59.12 | Jerub | i'm totally okay with saying what raid experience i have or whatever. |
| 05:59.27 | Jerub | becasue that's actually significantly more relevent. |
| 05:59.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Guardix-lagtop (~Martin@edu-clients.nat.esnord.dk) |
| 05:59.36 | Parnic | all of that to say that i'm really hopeful that the new cata blood spec makes DK's more durable |
| 05:59.48 | Parnic | i can self-heal for a long time against a single target as blood, barely need a healer |
| 05:59.59 | Parnic | but as soon as multi-mob groups show up or spell damage happens, i'm in trouble quickly |
| 06:00.08 | Jerub | dks are plenty durable at the moment. i raid alongside a dk who stood up to 20 stacks on sindy the other day |
| 06:00.11 | Jerub | (fell over on 21 tho) |
| 06:00.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Networkerror (~evonder@70-36-128-19.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 06:00.33 | Jerub | spell damage hurts us all equally doesn't it?: |
| 06:00.41 | Jerub | except for warriors with spell reflection? |
| 06:00.57 | Parnic | probably. DK is the only class i have tanking experience with, though |
| 06:01.02 | Parnic | so no point of comparison :) |
| 06:01.39 | Jerub | Parnic: warriors and paladins have a shield for block, that gives them more mitigation |
| 06:01.48 | Jerub | bears have more health and dodge at comparable gear levels. |
| 06:01.59 | Parnic | right |
| 06:02.13 | Parnic | best option i have is to stack dodge and parry :P |
| 06:02.32 | Jerub | for mitigation, sure. |
| 06:02.42 | Jerub | or you just stack stam and let your healers heal you |
| 06:03.03 | Parnic | funny, i tend to get bad healers in randoms... :P |
| 06:03.25 | Jerub | most people do. |
| 06:03.33 | Jerub | then again, healers often get lippy tanks |
| 06:04.28 | zenzio | I can't really judge healers beyond whether I stay alive. Being a tank, I don't have time to determine if a DPS dying is because he's an asshat or because the healer was being sloppy |
| 06:04.34 | Fisker | hate zenzelezz |
| 06:04.39 | zenzio | but generally they seem to do all right for me in PUGs |
| 06:04.40 | Parnic | i was tanking with a decked out rogue who wouldn't use tricks the other day....i fought the entire instance just to hold aggro over him |
| 06:04.48 | Jerub | i always know why people die if i'm tanking |
| 06:05.09 | Jerub | because i know if they had agro, how much agro they had, and how long they were low on health |
| 06:05.28 | zenzio | well yes, there are obvious cases |
| 06:07.12 | Jerub | hm. i'm just trying to figure out why i'd die. |
| 06:07.16 | Jerub | usually i die after the healer is dead. |
| 06:07.26 | Jerub | 59k health in party buffs normally. |
| 06:07.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~callahan@74-141-246-74.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 06:08.13 | zenzio | if I die before the healer, then I've either pulled off a very bad pull (not so common since vanilla/BC heroics), or the rest of the team are taking a lot of damage and the healer is having a hard time |
| 06:08.22 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 06:08.46 | zenzio | and if the healer dies, I've also messed up pretty bad |
| 06:08.56 | Jerub | i managed to take the forgemaster from 50% to 0% with 2 low dps still alive |
| 06:09.00 | Jerub | that was fucking awesome :D |
| 06:09.12 | Jerub | popped all my DR CDs and burned him down |
| 06:09.21 | *** join/#wowuidev cbreak_work (~cbreak@drz-wizzer.drz.ethz.ch) |
| 06:10.04 | Mike-N-Go | Night. |
| 06:10.08 | zenzio | I remember my first Loken in Halls of Lightning... can't recall if it was heroic or normal, but things didn't go so smoothly. Me and a DPS paladin finished him off (strictly speaking mostly the paladin) |
| 06:10.38 | zenzio | was just about to die when I got a massive Lay on Hands or whatever it was |
| 06:11.40 | Parnic | man, that guild achievements system is going to make me have to find a good guild to join for cata |
| 06:11.53 | Parnic | i'm in a friends-n-family guild now and there's no way we're earning all the awesome stuff by ourselves |
| 06:12.14 | Dagmar | It only requires four of ya to be working together |
| 06:12.33 | Parnic | yeah but all the good rewards are way high in level :P |
| 06:12.42 | zenzio | Dagmar: in raids also? |
| 06:12.43 | Parnic | and a low-population guild is going to have a tough time earning them in a timely fashion |
| 06:12.54 | Parnic | zenzio: 75%. so 4 in a dungeon |
| 06:14.14 | zenzio | 75% of the total or the max? (ie. would you need 30 people in the old 40-mans, or could you still do it with four people out of five in your guild?) |
| 06:14.39 | Parnic | not sure. i assume it's 75% of the group needs to be from your guild, but i can't say for sure |
| 06:14.48 | Dagmar | Dunno. I saw "4/5" somewhere in the descriptions of that stuff |
| 06:15.02 | Parnic | http://www.wowwiki.com/Guild_advancement#Guild_perks |
| 06:15.15 | zenzio | I'm guessing they don't expect you to round up 20-30 people just to do old instances |
| 06:16.02 | Dagmar | Doesn't look like anything there says raids would get you any "special" guild XP |
| 06:16.19 | ckknight | this music video is really well directed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z_Ys3BO_4M |
| 06:16.21 | Dagmar | ...so you can probably do like we were planning... just pound MOAR HEROICS with guildies |
| 06:16.26 | Parnic | guild raids/dungeons will contribute to the overall guild level which earns you stuff |
| 06:16.33 | Parnic | yeah. 24/7 heroic runs :P |
| 06:16.41 | Dagmar | Hardly |
| 06:16.48 | zenzio | didn't they say there'd be some weekly/daily cap? |
| 06:17.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@pool014.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 06:17.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 06:17.16 | Parnic | though there are achievements for each raid including the old stuff. i assume that will be a faster way to boost your guild level...at least doing them once each |
| 06:33.02 | Jerub | looks like EA had a hissy fit and died |
| 06:40.18 | zenzio | I don't suppose you're talking about the company? |
| 06:42.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~callahan@74-141-246-74.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 06:44.29 | Jerub | uh, elitistarmory |
| 06:46.33 | zenzio | pity |
| 06:49.51 | *** join/#wowuidev boshi23 (~boshi23@c-68-81-3-76.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 06:51.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Krapsy (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 06:57.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Tinyboom (~nahh@c91FD653E.dhcp.bluecom.no) |
| 07:00.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~callahan@74-141-246-74.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 07:02.43 | *** join/#wowuidev boshi23 (~boshi23@c-68-81-3-76.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 07:08.13 | Wobin | Jerub: he took it down, cause he needs the server for some other project |
| 07:10.49 | Jerub | oh noes! |
| 07:13.42 | zenzio | temporarily? |
| 07:14.14 | Jerub | Shadowed: what kind of host was it on? can i donate some hosting to you? :) |
| 07:14.42 | Shadowed | It's going to be invalid come Cataclysm anyway, so there isn't any point :p |
| 07:16.37 | zenzio | invalid? |
| 07:17.20 | Shadowed | stat changes etc |
| 07:20.09 | Wobin | when's caty coming out, though? |
| 07:25.45 | Jerub | Wobin: any day now. lead up events are happening now |
| 07:25.54 | Jerub | still needs to kill the LK |
| 07:26.10 | Wobin | it's... so broken in beta though |
| 07:26.15 | Wobin | so very very broken |
| 07:27.35 | Grum | \o/ we nailed LK sundays ... finally :D |
| 07:28.16 | *** join/#wowuidev durcyn (~durcyn@WoWUIDev/Durcyn) |
| 07:30.07 | Jerub | Grum: i've not fought the bastard yet. |
| 07:30.16 | Jerub | i had one of those heart in my throat moments the other day |
| 07:30.53 | Jerub | i've just joined a new icc10 team, and one guy says, before marrowgar (we'd just wiped from pulling all the trash all at once ugh) "i have a save at LK, we could give him a try first" |
| 07:30.53 | Dagmar | I feel like a bad, bad man. Gf's machine's video card just started crapping out... Upon closer examination there appears to have been an err in how the GPU's heat sink compound was just *slathered* on there |
| 07:31.03 | Jerub | and it was decided we'd try marrowgar on H instead. |
| 07:31.18 | Dagmar | She's all upset and I'm like "Oh you can have my video card" because now I have an excuse to buy a 460 |
| 07:31.20 | Dagmar | :) |
| 07:32.16 | Jerub | i should ge ta new video card |
| 07:32.25 | Jerub | goes to spend $40 on an upgrade |
| 07:32.51 | Grum | Jerub: finish the story! :D |
| 07:33.32 | Dagmar | You planning on playing Runescape or something? $40 video card? |
| 07:33.34 | Jerub | Grum: 17:31 < Jerub> and it was decided we'd try marrowgar on H instead. |
| 07:33.42 | Jerub | Dagmar: my last video card was a $40 video card. |
| 07:33.44 | Jerub | off ebay |
| 07:33.51 | Dagmar | Ahhh |
| 07:33.56 | Grum | so why was your heart in the throat :( |
| 07:34.16 | Jerub | Grum: oh, right. because i've not even fought the LK, and i'm the new guy in a icc10 raid group |
| 07:34.17 | Dagmar | THey still only had ten people? |
| 07:34.24 | Dagmar | Oh... Pfft. |
| 07:34.30 | Jerub | and this guy had a raid continuation from last week at LK. |
| 07:34.48 | Grum | so you almost got tossed into the fire trying to do lk without any pre-knowledge? :D |
| 07:34.53 | Jerub | so i couldn't say, "i'm leaving now unless we do LK" or anything drastic, i just voted to try the save and everyone else wanted to do hms. |
| 07:34.57 | Dagmar | 30% DPS buff means basically everyone has a shot at LK if they can just iron man their way through all those damn bosses |
| 07:35.15 | Jerub | Dagmar: *nod* |
| 07:35.51 | Dagmar | We stopped at 7 last week just because we'd been at it for hours and naps are important to us. |
| 07:35.52 | Dagmar | ;) |
| 07:35.59 | Jerub | we 1shot everything up to PP, 2 shot PP, then we decided to call early because some folks had other stuff to do. |
| 07:36.21 | Grum | hardmodes? |
| 07:36.30 | Jerub | marrow and gunship |
| 07:36.53 | Grum | pp just takes a little bit of practice in handling defile :) |
| 07:36.56 | Grum | errrrr |
| 07:36.56 | Grum | lk |
| 07:37.47 | Dagmar | Seriously? Best Buy can't be bothered to put 460's in stores? |
| 07:38.45 | Jerub | Grum: i'm told it can be solo tanked too |
| 07:38.56 | Jerub | if you have 4T10 |
| 07:38.57 | Grum | Jerub: if your tank is geared and you have enough dps yeah |
| 07:39.25 | Jerub | http://quickarmory.com/?n=brandi&r=Dath%27Remar has my tanking gear showing |
| 07:40.13 | Grum | and you better be a DK :P |
| 07:40.23 | Jerub | oh? |
| 07:40.26 | Jerub | is LK a DK tank fight? |
| 07:40.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~callahan@74-141-246-74.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 07:40.33 | Jerub | we have an awesome DK tank in the raid group |
| 07:40.47 | Jerub | i guess i can shove one of the healers into dps and heal the fight |
| 07:41.07 | Grum | typically you'd learn it with 2 tanks, 3 healers |
| 07:41.17 | Jerub | i'm their new tank, which is why they're happy to have me even tho i'm not hugely experienced. |
| 07:42.42 | *** part/#wowuidev hfdixus (~opera@91.192.189.123) |
| 07:42.48 | Grum | you should be able to get a kill on it before 3.9 hits |
| 07:43.12 | Jerub | 3.9 will bugger up all the stats, hey? |
| 07:43.20 | Grum | yeah probably |
| 07:43.25 | Jerub | that's the bridging release for mastery and killing spellpower and stuff i guess |
| 07:43.30 | Grum | mostly talents though |
| 07:43.33 | Grum | and you get reforging |
| 07:43.57 | Grum | i *hope* you get guild-talents |
| 07:44.04 | Grum | so you can already re-clear the oldskool instances |
| 07:44.11 | Jerub | *nod* |
| 07:44.19 | Grum | before you get gimped :D |
| 07:45.23 | Grum | i just hate that we're losing ZA :( |
| 07:45.24 | *** join/#wowuidev hfdixus (~opera@91.192.189.123) |
| 07:45.36 | Jerub | ZG? |
| 07:45.51 | Grum | err ZG indeed |
| 07:45.58 | Grum | and i wish they made another ZA! |
| 07:46.01 | *** part/#wowuidev hfdixus (~opera@91.192.189.123) |
| 07:46.14 | Jerub | i wonder if the silithus event will reoccur |
| 07:46.17 | Jerub | that would be legendary |
| 07:46.22 | Jerub | get the epic mount |
| 07:46.48 | zenzio | the gate opening? |
| 07:46.51 | Jerub | yeah |
| 07:47.16 | zenzio | considering how the servers coped in the first place, I doubt it; but it would've been fun to see |
| 07:47.17 | Jerub | i totally doubt it. |
| 07:48.13 | zenzio | I had just rerolled from a US to an EU realm and was questing in Desolace when it happened... got stuck fighting a scorpid, eventually died, although I didn't find out until an hour later or something when the server finally responded |
| 07:49.27 | zenzio | never found out if it was less harsh on the less populated servers |
| 07:49.45 | Jerub | nice |
| 07:52.52 | Fisker | talent specializations will likely make up for the change in gear/stats |
| 07:53.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Guardix-lagtop (~Martin@edu-clients.nat.esnord.dk) |
| 07:53.44 | *** join/#wowuidev augustl (~augustl@77.40.182.218) |
| 07:54.59 | Wobin | Fisker: yeah, but EA will still need to be rewritten |
| 07:57.42 | Jerub | Fisker: but it'll unbalance what people are raiding wearing |
| 08:02.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 08:03.31 | *** join/#wowuidev hfdixus (~opera@91.192.189.123) |
| 08:04.18 | *** join/#wowuidev kaso (~Kaso@89.240.5.140) |
| 08:07.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Humbedooh (~Humbedooh@port530.ds1-op.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 08:08.06 | *** join/#wowuidev NightHawkTheSane (~jonathan@li83-182.members.linode.com) |
| 08:09.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Pneumatus (~WiN@pneumatus.plus.com) |
| 08:09.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Pneumatus (~WiN@unaffiliated/pneumatus) |
| 08:10.06 | Elkano | damn Blizzard, they broke my dataminer :( |
| 08:10.13 | *** join/#wowuidev solocommand (~josh@adsl-68-21-92-253.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net) |
| 08:10.16 | zenzio | how so? |
| 08:10.23 | Elkano | (ItemDB that is) |
| 08:10.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 08:10.48 | Fisker | why so srs Elkano ? |
| 08:10.50 | Elkano | well, on beta client it seems like the function calls take way longer than they do on live |
| 08:10.58 | Fisker | baw |
| 08:11.23 | Elkano | GetItemIcon, GetItemInfo and GetItemStats that is |
| 08:11.38 | zenzio | how long are we talking? |
| 08:11.53 | Elkano | long enought to disconnect me when scanning from 1 to 75k |
| 08:12.04 | Fisker | they don't want you dataming |
| 08:12.05 | Fisker | they hatin |
| 08:12.10 | Fisker | datamining* |
| 08:12.38 | Fisker | i thought disconnects were done as soon you hit x number of invalid requests |
| 08:12.42 | Fisker | btw |
| 08:12.51 | Elkano | I don't do invalid requests |
| 08:13.20 | Fisker | your mom is invalid |
| 08:13.32 | Fisker | and then you aren't doing scans from 1-75k |
| 08:13.33 | Fisker | ;3 |
| 08:13.37 | Elkano | GetItemIcon is 100% client side returning a icon for all items in game ande GetItemInfo is 100% client side returning data for all items in your cache |
| 08:15.09 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@d86-33-159-51.cust.tele2.at) |
| 08:15.30 | zenzio | really? That's neat |
| 08:17.27 | Elkano | well, try my ItemDB on live :) |
| 08:18.06 | zenzio | think I tried it a long time ago, but realised I never link people stuff |
| 08:18.25 | *** join/#wowuidev solocommand (~josh@adsl-99-130-168-83.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net) |
| 08:18.27 | Fisker | That was a jerk move Elkano |
| 08:18.36 | Fisker | i couldn't find my server all of the sudden |
| 08:18.48 | Fisker | turns out i was still on this remote desktop connection :( |
| 08:19.53 | Elkano | well, zenzio, I mainly use it for lookups for myself ^^ especialy since I included the stats filter ^^ and as PeriodicTables browser |
| 08:20.59 | *** join/#wowuidev the-golem (~Darrin@c-98-255-201-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 08:21.07 | zenzio | might give it another go, was quite a while ago :) |
| 08:23.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~callahan@74-141-246-74.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 08:34.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (Vilkku@dsl-tkubrasgw1-ffc7c100-34.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 08:42.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (Vilkku@dsl-tkubrasgw1-ffc7c100-34.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 08:45.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Thaoky (Thaoky@27.218-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 08:45.32 | *** join/#wowuidev solocommand (~josh@99.130.172.89) |
| 08:48.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@dsl51B78AA1.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 08:54.21 | *** join/#wowuidev solocommand (~josh@99.162.50.100) |
| 09:04.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~callahan@74-141-246-74.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 09:16.53 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 09:31.00 | *** part/#wowuidev kapipi (~taro@2001:268:306:1:222:15ff:fe9e:d4c5) |
| 09:35.11 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (harl@dslb-088-076-039-231.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 09:38.11 | harl | hi |
| 09:38.40 | Kalroth | hello harl! |
| 09:39.30 | harl | :) |
| 09:43.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Vladinator (Vlad@24.82.202.84.customer.cdi.no) |
| 09:43.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Gnamra (~Gnamra@195.204.136.141) |
| 09:44.00 | Vladinator | I'll just throw it out there: I wish to use a "format" string like LOOT_ITEM_SELF_MULTIPLE and convert it so I can use it to :match and get the %s or %d returned, I would match it to the real "LOOT_ITEM_SELF_MULTIPLE" event that fired. |
| 09:44.31 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 09:49.54 | *** join/#wowuidev solocommand (~josh@99.162.53.148) |
| 09:51.09 | Vladinator | I got "Player %s looted [%s]x%d." and I wish to be able to use that to arg1:match() and get the %s and %d returned -any ideas? I tried converting %s to (.+) and similar, but not very good... It would return more than it should. :/ |
| 09:51.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Strigoi|LR (~postid08@89.112.43.238.pppoe.eltel.net) |
| 09:53.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Guardix-lagtop (~Martin@edu-clients.nat.esnord.dk) |
| 09:58.17 | haste | Vladinator: you can use %S+ |
| 09:58.48 | Vladinator | for example I want to take LOOT_ITEM_SELF_MULTIPLE and match the arg1 we get when we loot something |
| 09:59.11 | Vladinator | "You receive loot: %sx%d." but wouldnt it not be correct for :match ? |
| 09:59.32 | haste | no, %s is just s in that capture |
| 09:59.33 | Vladinator | for example "." would have to be escaped with a %, the %s isn't only a string but a whole item link string. |
| 09:59.39 | Vladinator | yeah :( |
| 09:59.55 | haste | %d also match 0-9 only |
| 10:00.04 | haste | ie. only single-digits |
| 10:00.06 | Vladinator | I would like to make the addon read loot messages on any language client (by using the globalstrings) and properly return the matched values. |
| 10:00.07 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 10:00.10 | Vladinator | got any suggestions? |
| 10:00.29 | Elkano | replace %s by (.+) and %d by %d+ |
| 10:00.44 | Vladinator | one problem (.+) gave me was it got greedy at some matches |
| 10:00.56 | Vladinator | and the first value contained all the string until the end, including the %d+ |
| 10:00.58 | haste | .- isn't greedy |
| 10:01.12 | Vladinator | so (.-) is not greedy but (.+) is |
| 10:01.19 | Elkano | well, but shouldn't be able to get too gredy cause there still comes x%d+ |
| 10:01.25 | Vladinator | thanks, on php we can use a .*? where "?" says "don't be greedy" :P |
| 10:01.36 | Vladinator | it's weird :s |
| 10:01.43 | haste | PHP uses PCRE |
| 10:01.57 | haste | Lua uses Lua patterns, whihc are kinda similar to regular expressions, but not entirely |
| 10:02.12 | Vladinator | at the moment my function will add "%" in front of ()[]. to avoid problems, then at the end I turn %s and %d into (.-) |
| 10:02.55 | haste | turn %s into (.-) and %d into %d+ |
| 10:03.12 | haste | but .+ should wwork fine |
| 10:03.15 | Vladinator | jupp |
| 10:03.19 | Vladinator | I know but it's odd. |
| 10:04.58 | Vladinator | another thing I need help with is to match the money loot strings properly |
| 10:05.39 | Vladinator | but considering the string we get depends on what money we loot, like it can be only "X Copper" or "X Silver and Y Copper" or "X Gold, Y Silver and Z Copper" -any short way to use lua matching? |
| 10:05.53 | Vladinator | or would I have to do 3 matches for the 3 kind of syntaxes? |
| 10:06.57 | Elkano | well, you could do a match for each and sum up |
| 10:07.00 | foxlit | Vladinator: what's worse: "1 Silver" |
| 10:07.35 | Elkano | meaning "(%d+) Gold", "(%d+) Silver" and "(%d+) Copper" |
| 10:07.39 | Vladinator | yeah |
| 10:07.47 | Vladinator | thats what I tought :p |
| 10:08.00 | Vladinator | making a simple loot mod to sum up several loots in 1 line |
| 10:08.26 | Vladinator | instead of text it uses item icons and the count of the items (colors count by quality) and you can click it for link e.g. :) think it's nice |
| 10:08.26 | Elkano | or "(%d+) ([^ ]+)" |
| 10:08.39 | Vladinator | the last one seems more appropriate |
| 10:08.47 | Vladinator | avoids me using globalstrings for the currency name |
| 10:08.52 | Vladinator | (gold, silver, e.g.) |
| 10:09.17 | Elkano | well, you'll still have to to get the right amount in copper, don't you |
| 10:09.18 | zenzio | do you mind using globalstrings? |
| 10:09.38 | Dagmar | Does it zero-fill silver? |
| 10:10.15 | Elkano | don't think so |
| 10:10.35 | Dagmar | I can't say for sure because I've never paid it that much attention, but I think Vladinator is right, although there may be a "not-a-digit" regexp you should use for the second half |
| 10:11.36 | foxlit | Can't you just... not use string matching? |
| 10:11.41 | Dagmar | ^%d rather than just [^ ] |
| 10:11.51 | foxlit | Just compare your amount of gold before and after the message. |
| 10:12.25 | Dagmar | Oooo |
| 10:12.25 | foxlit | Dagmar: %D |
| 10:12.28 | Dagmar | pwned |
| 10:12.46 | Dagmar | foxlit: You can ucase it to invert? |
| 10:12.50 | foxlit | yes. |
| 10:12.58 | foxlit | Works for other character classes, too |
| 10:13.02 | Dagmar | Ah, that's not on the wowwiki page about 'em so I didnt' know it |
| 10:13.24 | Dagmar | Maybe I missed it... looking |
| 10:13.24 | foxlit | which page? |
| 10:13.35 | Dagmar | Ah there it is |
| 10:14.01 | foxlit | [Strange to be looking at pattern captures docs on wowwiki when the Lua reference manual is so much... nicer, but let's fix that anyway] |
| 10:14.16 | Dagmar | Not suprisingly, the wiki has higher search engine rank |
| 10:15.51 | Vladinator | one thing, the matchers are many and I like loop over the various "regex" but 2 regex match the same line, i.e. I get 2 results. only difference is that one is "[Item]x2" and the other is "[Item]" and the count in arg2 (the way I expect it to be). Adding "^" and "$" around the matcher didn't fix it either, hmm. |
| 10:16.02 | Dagmar | Caching the currency value and comparing it after the event is a better approach than trying to hook text that MIGHT at some point actually be "4 eggs, 3 bacon, 1 celery" or somethign |
| 10:16.38 | zenzio | beware addons that modify the strings? |
| 10:16.46 | foxlit | Baconmod |
| 10:16.48 | Vladinator | Dagmar the event return arg1 and arg1 is pure text localized using the globalstrings. |
| 10:16.50 | *** join/#wowuidev solocommand (~josh@adsl-99-162-57-80.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net) |
| 10:16.55 | foxlit | The AddOn that makes all transactions require bacon. |
| 10:17.27 | Vladinator | I am hooking the event, it's just lame that it doesnt return arg1 and arg2 where you get itemid and the count of the item... instead we get the formated string :/ |
| 10:18.27 | Dagmar | You get to skip the entire buisness of an iffy regexp with simple math tho |
| 10:21.03 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 10:23.08 | Dagmar | That's actually a really good trade-off |
| 10:23.17 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@c-76-114-170-138.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 10:23.17 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 10:26.36 | Dagmar | ...assuming there's not some weird race condition between GetMoney() and PLAYER_ENTERING_WORLD |
| 10:38.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Billykv (Billykv@109-92-218-159.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs) |
| 10:42.32 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (spode@213.21.119.83) |
| 10:52.10 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 10:54.24 | Vladinator | how did group matching work on lua? if I have a string like "name:digit" in a list like "name:5bob:1cindy:10" and I want to for-loop trough those 3 matches where x and y are name and digit? |
| 10:54.40 | Vladinator | for k,v in str:match("(%d+):(%D)") do ... end |
| 10:57.03 | foxlit | Vladinator: http://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/manual.html#5.4 |
| 10:57.24 | Vladinator | gmatch I see |
| 10:57.25 | Vladinator | thanks |
| 10:57.40 | Vladinator | match is 1 only, gmatch is multiple ;) neat |
| 10:57.46 | Vladinator | I knew it but forgot lol :( |
| 11:01.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Legorol (~legorol@cpc8-sgyl28-2-0-cust43.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 11:01.42 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Legorol] by ChanServ |
| 11:02.15 | Vladinator | foxlit, know a simple match func to convert copper into g/s and c if leftover? I got the sum as copper but wish to now go the other way ... backward. |
| 11:02.26 | Vladinator | any neat mathematical formula that comes to mind? :p |
| 11:02.44 | [Ammo] | think modulo :) |
| 11:03.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Vladinator (Vlad@24.82.202.84.customer.cdi.no) |
| 11:03.33 | Vladinator | ops, gc |
| 11:03.40 | A-KO | / 100 = silver :P |
| 11:04.48 | [Ammo] | http://pastey.net/140465 |
| 11:06.22 | A-KO | there's also getcointext() |
| 11:06.29 | A-KO | and getcointexturestring() |
| 11:06.45 | A-KO | http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/GetCoinText |
| 11:06.52 | [Ammo] | I just copypasted some old function I use, top 3 lines are basically what you want to know |
| 11:06.57 | Vladinator | yeah |
| 11:07.21 | Vladinator | just noticed that in copper you always have the last 4 digits as copper and silver, the remainder are gold |
| 11:07.24 | A-KO | http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/GetCoinTextureString |
| 11:07.24 | Vladinator | thanks Ammo |
| 11:08.03 | [Ammo] | A-KO: those are handy dandy indeed |
| 11:08.12 | Vladinator | ^_^ |
| 11:08.21 | Vladinator | btw on my side I don't see underscore, you too? |
| 11:08.33 | [Ammo] | but it uses the full Gold, Copper etc |
| 11:08.54 | [Ammo] | I wanted g s c :) |
| 11:09.23 | *** join/#wowuidev spode- (spode@213.21.119.83) |
| 11:13.00 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (~nuohep@89.222.156.36) |
| 11:14.15 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 11:14.30 | Vladinator | it's dandy, had to use custom padding, margin, e.g. on my icon anyway ^^ |
| 11:16.59 | Legorol | <Vladinator> just noticed that in copper you always have the last 4 digits as copper and silver, the remainder are gold <=== ehm, am I missing something here, but isn't that obvious? if you play WoW at all, you know that 1g = 100s and 1s = 100c. |
| 11:18.20 | Legorol | i may have misunderstood you somewhere, in which case I apologise |
| 11:19.45 | Vladinator | no I know, it's obvious :D |
| 11:20.33 | Vladinator | btw read that "function X(...)" and "X=function(...)" that the first one is less performance friendly... how do you stand on this matter? :P |
| 11:21.28 | jnwhiteh | its just a blatant mistruth |
| 11:21.29 | jnwhiteh | =) |
| 11:21.33 | jnwhiteh | they're the same |
| 11:22.31 | jnwhiteh | Vladinator: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/785299 |
| 11:27.11 | krka | the runtime is the same, compiling them may be slightly different |
| 11:27.20 | krka | but that may be really insignificant |
| 11:27.25 | krka | and probably different on different machines |
| 11:29.54 | Vladinator | sad there is no hex->dec while tonumber can do the other way around :< |
| 11:30.24 | jnwhiteh | lua> tonumber("0x4564",) |
| 11:30.26 | lua_bot | jnwhiteh: luabot:1: unexpected symbol near ')' |
| 11:30.29 | jnwhiteh | lua> tonumber("0x4564") |
| 11:30.29 | lua_bot | jnwhiteh: 17764 |
| 11:30.40 | jnwhiteh | Not sure what you're saying |
| 11:30.41 | Vladinator | and 17764 to hex? |
| 11:30.51 | jnwhiteh | that's dec->hex |
| 11:31.05 | Vladinator | I see that, but no easy sollution for the other way? |
| 11:31.08 | jnwhiteh | lua> string.format("%x", 17764) |
| 11:31.08 | lua_bot | jnwhiteh: 4564 |
| 11:31.20 | Vladinator | that could work indeed, %x |
| 11:31.35 | Vladinator | lua> format("%x",128/255) |
| 11:31.35 | lua_bot | Vladinator: luabot:1: attempt to call global 'format' (a nil value) |
| 11:31.40 | Vladinator | lua> string.format("%x",128/255) |
| 11:31.40 | jnwhiteh | lua> tonumber(string.format("0x%x", 17764)) |
| 11:31.40 | lua_bot | Vladinator: 0 |
| 11:31.40 | lua_bot | jnwhiteh: 17764 |
| 11:31.54 | jnwhiteh | 128 / 255 is not a whole number.. |
| 11:32.10 | jnwhiteh | what you want is just 128 |
| 11:32.13 | Vladinator | should I ceil or floor it in your oppinion? |
| 11:32.16 | jnwhiteh | neither |
| 11:32.19 | jnwhiteh | they won't do what you want |
| 11:32.23 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (~smcn@c-174-52-104-121.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 11:32.28 | jnwhiteh | you only divide by 255 when you want the DECIMAL version |
| 11:32.34 | jnwhiteh | the hex version is just 128 in hex. |
| 11:32.55 | Vladinator | wow uses 0-1 so I need to multiply that by 255 then run it trough format to get hex out of it. |
| 11:33.09 | krka | hex is just presentation |
| 11:33.14 | Vladinator | yeah |
| 11:33.41 | jnwhiteh | http://www.wowwiki.com/HexToRGB |
| 11:33.52 | Vladinator | using ChatTypeInfo["MONEY"].r/.g/.b to make a #XXYYZZ string |
| 11:34.03 | jnwhiteh | http://www.wowwiki.com/HexToRGBPerc |
| 11:34.27 | jnwhiteh | ah, those won't help you in that case |
| 11:34.31 | Vladinator | hmm |
| 11:34.45 | jnwhiteh | just * 255 and convert to hex |
| 11:34.50 | Vladinator | yeah |
| 11:34.58 | Vladinator | that's what I did and it works fine now ;) |
| 11:35.37 | *** join/#wowuidev WyriHaximus (~wyri@haxim.us) |
| 11:36.34 | *** join/#wowuidev WyriHaximus (~wyri@unaffiliated/wyrihaximus) |
| 11:36.40 | *** join/#wowuidev kapipi (~NET@p2180-ipbfp305matsue.shimane.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 11:36.52 | Vladinator | only thing that annoys me atm is that the text can get funny texture glitches when I combine textures and text but hey, nothing is perfect |
| 11:41.06 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (p3lim@200.41.202.84.customer.cdi.no) |
| 11:43.23 | *** join/#wowuidev boshi23 (~chris@c-68-36-37-83.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 11:46.54 | Shirik | I swear to god |
| 11:46.59 | zenzio | you shouldn't |
| 11:47.00 | Shirik | where is the "stfu button" in IE |
| 11:47.02 | zenzio | he can get mad |
| 11:47.21 | Kalroth | Shirik: in IE? That's alt+F4 |
| 11:50.31 | zenzio | "So what you're saying is that if you never actually look at your phone, or use it as a phone, you can run idle applications in the background. Colour me impressed." |
| 11:51.01 | Shirik | ? |
| 11:51.20 | zenzio | http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/10/09/08/0559200/Dual-Core-CPU-Opens-Door-To-1080p-On-Smartphones |
| 11:51.24 | *** join/#wowuidev boshi23 (~chris@c-68-36-37-83.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 11:51.28 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~alestane@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 11:51.28 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 11:52.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Monolit (~postid08@89.112.43.238.pppoe.eltel.net) |
| 11:53.03 | zenzio | "I instantly know when I hear things like "Snappier", "User Experience", "Superior UI" and "responsive/ness" that the poster has absolutely no clue and is just regurgitating Apple marketing." |
| 11:53.05 | zenzio | heh |
| 11:57.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Thrae (~ircuser@generalmx-1-pt.tunnel.tserv13.ash1.ipv6.he.net) |
| 12:00.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Pneumatus (~WiN@81.174.255.133) |
| 12:00.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Pneumatus (~WiN@unaffiliated/pneumatus) |
| 12:00.54 | Elkano | did you say apple? http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=dont_get_a_macru12.jpg |
| 12:02.14 | mitch0 | what a friggin fugly page |
| 12:05.44 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (~nuohep@89.222.156.36) |
| 12:06.07 | Shirik | how do I ever |
| 12:06.09 | Shirik | ever say no? |
| 12:07.37 | Elkano | Shirik, try: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/En-us-no.ogg |
| 12:07.40 | zenzio | "Since when have iPhone been about following the trend? They are completely relying on their fanboys/girls running iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii when they release something. Don't expect an iPhone dual core the next 2-3 years." -- "But the iPhone will have Dual iCore® technology. And have Steve Jobs' approval." -- "What's the benefit of processing using imaginary cores?" |
| 12:08.00 | Shirik | iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii |
| 12:12.19 | Shirik | "Fire and Water, Earth and the Sky" <-- I think she really doesn't understand what elements are |
| 12:22.17 | Shirik | oh god |
| 12:22.19 | Shirik | say it isn't true |
| 12:22.28 | Kalroth | it isn't true |
| 12:22.30 | Kalroth | (???) |
| 12:22.30 | Shirik | I just installed the Texas Instruments IDE |
| 12:22.51 | Shirik | ... it's Eclipse wrapped with a different logo |
| 12:23.42 | Kalroth | hahah |
| 12:25.00 | zenzio | what's the Texas Instruments IDE for? |
| 12:25.48 | Fisker | did you jailbreak your ps3 using a TI calculator Shirik ? |
| 12:25.53 | Fisker | zenzio their calculators? |
| 12:26.13 | zenzio | I assume you're not programming calculators |
| 12:26.22 | Fisker | actually you are |
| 12:26.34 | Fisker | Someone made a ps3 jailbreaker using a TI-84 something calculator |
| 12:26.40 | Fisker | btw |
| 12:26.56 | Fisker | is the Snapdragon dual core a virtual core á la HT? |
| 12:27.33 | *** join/#wowuidev mono|strigoy (~postid08@89.112.107.128.pppoe.eltel.net) |
| 12:29.56 | Vladinator | mod music is addictive :) |
| 12:31.01 | Shirik | zenzio: For a DSP I'm working on |
| 12:31.33 | Fisker | hey Shirik |
| 12:36.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Guardix (~Martin@0x5da165ee.hinqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 12:38.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Borgleader (Borgleader@132.207.247.145) |
| 12:38.37 | *** join/#wowuidev WyriHaximus (~wyri@haxim.us) |
| 12:40.28 | Kraps | morning |
| 12:40.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (~Lopeppepp@141.222.30.166) |
| 12:40.43 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 12:41.12 | Lopeppeppy | Rawr, I tell you. |
| 12:41.22 | alestane | Rawr, indeed. |
| 12:41.26 | Kraps | morning peppy |
| 12:41.42 | alestane | Is that a happy rawr, a hungry rawr, or a vengeful rawr? |
| 12:41.47 | Vladinator | found out a fancy thing, if you /console quit it's very fast to exit -but I don't think it saves variables :P |
| 12:42.00 | Vladinator | (and if it does then it seems much more efficient at quitting) |
| 12:42.25 | |Jelly| | Peppy! Save meh from this Torpical Depression! kek |
| 12:45.37 | Lopeppeppy | sends Jelly an umbrella-ella-ella |
| 12:46.06 | Lopeppeppy | Vengeful, alestane. Why, why, WHY do professors not check their web-pages over the summer???? |
| 12:46.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Thrae (~ircuser@generalmx-1-pt.tunnel.tserv13.ash1.ipv6.he.net) |
| 12:47.25 | alestane | Because they're professors, and they don't work over the summer. |
| 12:47.50 | Lopeppeppy | Actually, all of them are supposed to be back August 20. So they had almost 2 weeks! |
| 12:49.21 | Kraps | http://www.google.com/trends/hottrends?sa=X&oi=prbx_hot_trends&ct=more-results #12 |
| 12:51.22 | *** join/#wowuidev WyriHaximus (~wyri@unaffiliated/wyrihaximus) |
| 12:52.19 | Shirik | omg |
| 12:52.23 | Shirik | windows, I will destroy you |
| 12:52.35 | Shirik | If you accidentally right click and drag instead of right clicking on a zip file in a read-only CD |
| 12:52.54 | Shirik | it first ejects the disc saying "please insert a writable CD" then you click cancel and then it goes "wtf give me back the CD" |
| 12:53.31 | mitch0 | shirik: http://torrents.freebsd.org:8080/ |
| 12:53.56 | Lopeppeppy | do murder! |
| 13:00.38 | Shirik | ok |
| 13:00.44 | Shirik | and what happened to Windows XP Compatibility Mode |
| 13:00.47 | Shirik | we got rid of this too? |
| 13:01.18 | Thunder_Child | no |
| 13:01.50 | |Jelly| | Windows 7 Pro |
| 13:02.22 | Thunder_Child | well, yes if you dont count SP's |
| 13:02.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Humbedooh (~Humbedooh@port530.ds1-op.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 13:02.37 | |Jelly| | <3 |
| 13:05.31 | Shirik | I'm not talking about XP Mode |
| 13:05.37 | Shirik | I'm talking about that little compatibility dropdown box |
| 13:05.44 | Shirik | which for some reason you can't pick XP anymore |
| 13:05.55 | Shirik | "Oh, because you can just use XP Mode" EXCEPT IT'S NOT THE SAME |
| 13:06.14 | Shirik | sometimes I think Microsoft does these things intentionally |
| 13:06.23 | Shirik | I refuse to believe they can be this stupid |
| 13:08.29 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 13:08.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Mihau (~asmith@69.73.16.202) |
| 13:17.07 | Shirik | I think the world hates me today |
| 13:17.23 | Shirik | "Unable to locate your student account. Please contact your system administrator." |
| 13:20.10 | mikma | haa-haa |
| 13:22.36 | cbreak_work | Shirik: grats for graduating! |
| 13:22.42 | mitch0 | shirik: didn't you get the memo? |
| 13:28.52 | Lopeppeppy | Again, Shirik? These people never think you go there. |
| 13:29.20 | zenzio | maybe he really doesn't |
| 13:36.26 | Ackis | http://youtu.be/DKRlWLDWhGI REMEMBER |
| 13:39.42 | Ackis | if only MS marketing would do videos like that for say November 11 type of "remember"... how wicked would that be? |
| 13:40.39 | Ackis | is there anyway to make yourself get into a random with a buddy on another server? or just luck of the draw? |
| 13:42.44 | Lopeppeppy | I think it's luck!! |
| 13:42.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (~kalroth@mail1.retailplanit.com) |
| 13:42.55 | Ackis | nuts |
| 13:43.13 | Kalroth | Shirik: You work on wikipedia too, yes?! |
| 13:43.15 | Ackis | someone I know irl was in my group yesterday... he realized it at the start but I was too dense to realize it until the end of the instance |
| 13:44.10 | Kalroth | That had to be ackward |
| 13:44.24 | Thunder_Child | Kalroth: his bot works on wikipedia, he just takes all the credit |
| 13:44.31 | Kalroth | oh okay |
| 13:44.45 | Kalroth | can his bot mark http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skive as rather suspicious :p |
| 13:45.21 | Ackis | my city is boring... the big news story is how the LRT is crowded |
| 13:45.56 | Kalroth | wtf, m-w agrees |
| 13:45.56 | Kalroth | http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/skive |
| 13:46.11 | alestane | The Lowell Regional Transit? Probably not, I seem to remember you live in Alberta or womehwere like that. |
| 13:46.14 | alestane | somewhere* |
| 13:47.36 | Ackis | Light Rail Transit :P |
| 13:47.42 | Ackis | a subway that goes above ground |
| 13:47.59 | Kraps | whats going on with gmail? |
| 13:48.13 | Lopeppeppy | I dunno, what's going on with it, Kraps? |
| 13:48.46 | Kraps | its slow, clicking attach a file doesnt do anything |
| 13:49.29 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 13:49.46 | Kraps | ok its working |
| 13:50.02 | Lopeppeppy | Was gonna say, mine is fine. |
| 13:50.59 | Ackis | haha gmail doesn't like Kraps |
| 13:51.06 | Ackis | maybe that's because they aren't real ID friends! |
| 13:51.58 | Kraps | ... |
| 13:52.28 | Ackis | it hurts doesn't it Kraps? |
| 13:52.31 | Ackis | stings! |
| 13:52.44 | Kraps | no not really |
| 13:52.49 | Ackis | lies |
| 13:52.51 | Ackis | I see your tears |
| 13:54.39 | Kraps | i just filled in my first NFL pool |
| 13:56.39 | Torhal | Kraps: You dropped The Browns off at the Super Bowl? |
| 13:56.56 | Kraps | umm |
| 13:57.20 | Torhal | :D |
| 13:57.51 | Thunder_Child | first time i ever did a pool i won |
| 13:57.54 | Thunder_Child | wont be doing that again |
| 14:04.15 | DWSR | I got Gold 1v1. |
| 14:04.19 | DWSR | I swear to god that's a mistake |
| 14:08.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen (~Kevin@149-169-129-119.nat.asu.edu) |
| 14:08.31 | cbreak_work | I am in gold too... I think it's the average player bracket |
| 14:09.28 | DWSR | Some moron when MMM against me |
| 14:10.32 | foxlit | moo? |
| 14:10.58 | cbreak_work | MMM is strong. |
| 14:11.09 | cbreak_work | morons usually do weak things. |
| 14:11.22 | foxlit | In some contexts. |
| 14:11.25 | cbreak_work | like mass zerglings against helions/colossi |
| 14:11.55 | cbreak_work | I played one very interesting 2v2 some weeks ago |
| 14:11.59 | cbreak_work | both went mass marines |
| 14:12.10 | cbreak_work | like groups of 100 marines or so |
| 14:12.22 | cbreak_work | for over 30 minutes... |
| 14:12.37 | cbreak_work | against my mass helions... |
| 14:12.37 | foxlit | perhaps they needed additional gas |
| 14:12.47 | cbreak_work | for 30 minutes? from 3 bases? |
| 14:12.57 | foxlit | fs, diversion |
| 14:13.04 | foxlit | bluetooth mouse went to sleep |
| 14:13.05 | cbreak_work | I think they either were dumb, or really wanted to only play with one unit |
| 14:13.27 | cbreak_work | oh, they lost, without trying anything else. |
| 14:13.41 | foxlit | Or they're thinking "Helions? wtf are those!" |
| 14:13.41 | cbreak_work | don't think it was a diversion. probably some experiment |
| 14:14.01 | cbreak_work | could be. In 2v2 I am in bronze :) |
| 14:14.10 | foxlit | no, this was damn sabotage |
| 14:18.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Odlaw (~ozzy@c-98-245-3-204.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 14:18.36 | *** join/#wowuidev the-golem (~Darrin@c-98-255-201-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 14:22.12 | *** join/#wowuidev pickstar (~kdgdlvm@217.118.64.47) |
| 14:23.07 | DWSR | cbreak: Yeah, MMM is strong. |
| 14:23.18 | DWSR | the problem is when you 1) Don't build detectors against my dark templar. |
| 14:23.22 | DWSR | and 2) when I mothership your ass. |
| 14:23.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Esamynn|Away (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Esamynn) |
| 14:23.27 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Esamynn|Away] by ChanServ |
| 14:23.38 | DWSR | LOL CLOAKED STALKER/VOID RAY |
| 14:23.41 | DWSR | win |
| 14:24.15 | DWSR | even more fun was he tried to reaper rush me |
| 14:24.59 | DWSR | I had scouted him early and saw the reapers, so I just dropped cannons on my supply line. |
| 14:25.02 | DWSR | Was at them all game. |
| 14:29.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Monolit (~postid08@89.112.107.128.pppoe.eltel.net) |
| 14:31.03 | foxlit | If he was competent, you'd have lost |
| 14:31.46 | foxlit | But that really holds in any situaiton |
| 14:34.34 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (~smcn@c-174-52-104-121.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 14:35.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Silker (~ponies@5ac455a8.bb.sky.com) |
| 14:35.27 | *** join/#wowuidev neb (~Neb@c-75-73-235-102.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 14:38.44 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 14:40.01 | Adys | Which file is the bag logic in? |
| 14:40.16 | Adys | looking specifically for quest item highlighting and starts-quest exclams |
| 14:42.11 | alestane | ContainerFrame.lua IIRC. |
| 14:42.22 | Adys | cheers |
| 14:43.01 | *** join/#wowuidev ParnicWork (~Parnic@66.194.172.200) |
| 14:46.21 | Ackis | http://free-loops.com/download-free-loop-7574.html |
| 14:48.32 | Humbedooh | mmmmm |
| 14:51.27 | Kraps | http://gi344.photobucket.com/groups/p355/PTFK4X4K3R/Funny-3.gif |
| 14:53.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Thrae (~ircuser@generalmx-1-pt.tunnel.tserv13.ash1.ipv6.he.net) |
| 14:55.16 | zenzelezz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9Oe-9hlC18 - sooo bad, and yet it brings back so many fun memories |
| 14:57.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Cide@c213-100-51-33.swipnet.se) |
| 14:57.47 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 14:58.03 | alestane | Um...WTF? http://icanhascheezburger.com/2010/09/08/funny-pictures-bring-the-kids-to-work-day/ |
| 14:59.25 | haste | aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa |
| 14:59.27 | haste | the commentsf |
| 15:00.04 | alestane | When, when will you learn? |
| 15:00.10 | haste | never :( |
| 15:01.13 | Ackis | never read the comments |
| 15:01.14 | Ackis | never |
| 15:02.15 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 15:02.15 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 15:04.09 | Ackis | http://threatpost.com/en_us/blogs/effect-snake-oil-security-090710 |
| 15:06.18 | industrial | yeah what i dont get before reading; what does snake oil have to do with security? I know it's a dumb question but I'm just asking it to get it answered, not because I actually believe that it does have anything to do with security. |
| 15:07.24 | Ackis | snake oil == something that pretends to do something but doesn't |
| 15:07.49 | Ackis | snake oil security == security package that promises to do something but doesn't |
| 15:07.55 | industrial | right |
| 15:08.01 | Ackis | a black box that "encrypts" your data for example but doesn't actually do a damn thing |
| 15:08.06 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3|netbook (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 15:08.08 | alestane | "Snake oil" is an old term for the "patent medicines" that were popular in the frontier environment. |
| 15:08.32 | Ackis | basically the concept is there's no silver bullet in information security |
| 15:08.38 | Ackis | and people saying there is are trying to sell you snake oil |
| 15:08.44 | Ackis | "Today, I came home to my wife crying. She had mixed up our newborn twin girls and couldn't tell which was which. I looked at the girls. Neither could I. FML" |
| 15:09.13 | alestane | Advertised by personable hucksters, these substances incorporated supposed Native American wisdom, local ingredients, etc. claiming to be "good for what ailed you," but were generally mostly brandy. |
| 15:11.02 | Humbedooh | mmm brandy |
| 15:11.35 | *** join/#wowuidev malreth (~triti@dhcp-128-83-186-188.its.utexas.edu) |
| 15:14.42 | cbreak_work | there's something that comes close to silver bullet |
| 15:14.53 | cbreak_work | it's called "Computer Knowledge" |
| 15:15.33 | inviso | I'm running into some trouble with UIDropDownMenu and the initial value populated in the dropdown. Currently, it's populating the text "Custom" although I can't see where that's being provided and it's not a valid option when you actually click on the dropdown. This is on beta. Any idea where "Custom" is coming from? |
| 15:16.15 | Fisker | my security is silver bullet |
| 15:17.13 | zenzelezz | "Disbarred lawyer Jack Thompson is injecting himself into the controversy over the ability to play as the Taliban in the upcoming Medal of Honor, reports PCMag.com, saying Thompson faxed a letter outlining his objections to the game to U.S. defense secretary Robert Gates." |
| 15:17.16 | Fisker | i hasted you |
| 15:17.22 | zenzelezz | so we really MUST kill him to make him stop |
| 15:17.28 | Fisker | yes |
| 15:18.32 | *** join/#wowuidev kneeki (~kneeki@66.45.169.249) |
| 15:18.38 | kneeki | Morning everyone |
| 15:19.00 | inviso | Good morning |
| 15:22.06 | Fisker | so Shirik |
| 15:24.05 | harl | ew.. lawyers blending themselves and infesting people with syringes full of lawyer's slobber.. what's next |
| 15:24.29 | *** part/#wowuidev Sixen (~Kevin@149-169-129-119.nat.asu.edu) |
| 15:24.46 | zenzelezz | lol |
| 15:26.38 | DWSR | harl: You don't want to knwo |
| 15:26.40 | DWSR | know* |
| 15:27.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Schnaks (~Schnaks@p4FC4DD41.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:30.55 | Ackis | david weber has made me an angry ackis |
| 15:31.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Osagasu (~Creek@67-197-1-37.rh1.dyn.cm.comporium.net) |
| 15:31.13 | Fisker | Ackis |
| 15:31.30 | zenzelezz | how interesting that he made an object of the same name as your nick |
| 15:32.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Robsato (~Robsato@wetering.xs4all.nl) |
| 15:32.06 | Ackis | Just finished reading Storm from the Shadows. |
| 15:32.09 | Fisker | hey Ackis |
| 15:32.10 | Ackis | left me hanging :( |
| 15:32.14 | Ackis | Fisker: go away! |
| 15:32.15 | Ackis | :D |
| 15:32.39 | Fisker | no |
| 15:32.43 | Fisker | not until we stop the US Ackis |
| 15:33.06 | Ackis | what stupid thing is the US doing now? |
| 15:33.45 | Fisker | They tried to take down the pirate bay again :( |
| 15:34.16 | Lopeppeppy | They will, some day, win that one. |
| 15:34.37 | Ackis | no they won't peppy |
| 15:34.46 | Ackis | it's like a hydra |
| 15:34.51 | Ackis | cut one head off, another will grow |
| 15:35.03 | Ackis | it might not be called TPB but it'll be out there |
| 15:35.13 | alestane | They might get the pirate bay, but they won't eliminate torrent sites. |
| 15:35.34 | Fisker | naw alestane |
| 15:35.35 | zenzelezz | lies |
| 15:35.37 | Fisker | ACTA, etc. |
| 15:35.39 | zenzelezz | we all know torrents died with Suprnova |
| 15:36.07 | Fisker | though they may not ever stop TPB/torrent sites, but they'll likely fuck up laws so much that users can't anyway |
| 15:36.23 | *** join/#wowuidev bryno (~bryno@cpe-67-11-189-252.satx.res.rr.com) |
| 15:36.23 | *** join/#wowuidev bryno (~bryno@unaffiliated/bryno) |
| 15:37.28 | *** join/#wowuidev solocommand (~josh@adsl-99-50-129-168.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net) |
| 15:45.29 | alestane | http://www.popsci.com/diy/article/2010-08/cool-hand-theo |
| 15:45.43 | Kraps | i used to use mininova a lot |
| 15:48.33 | Fisker | i will kill you alestane |
| 15:48.40 | Fisker | for free |
| 15:48.59 | Kraps | i wonder if it would be faster now that i dont have verizons dsl anymore |
| 15:50.08 | Fisker | i'm faster than you? |
| 15:50.10 | *** join/#wowuidev SeanK (~SeanK@pool-98-117-120-73.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 15:50.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Krahg (~Krahg@121.136.59.215) |
| 15:51.04 | Ackis | https://cuteoverload.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/img_0034.jpg?w=560&h=420 |
| 15:51.28 | zenzelezz | lol |
| 15:51.46 | Cairenn | lol |
| 15:51.52 | Fisker | Ackis |
| 15:52.52 | Adys | Today, I had to do something that many young technologically-savvy people fear. I had to get on my dad's Facebook for him to delete a rather scandalous photo of his genitals he accidentally uploaded. FML |
| 15:53.07 | Fisker | no Ackis |
| 15:53.09 | Cairenn | O.O |
| 15:53.26 | zenzelezz | grats Adys |
| 15:54.26 | Kraps | btw Adys |
| 15:54.51 | Kraps | WHY DID TAKE A PHOTO OF HIS GENITALS? |
| 15:55.29 | Cairenn | I've had people offer to send me photos of their genitals :p |
| 15:55.45 | Lopeppeppy | I've had people randomly send me those photos. |
| 15:55.47 | zenzelezz | for the record, I am not one of them |
| 15:56.00 | Cairenn | chuckles at Lopeppeppy |
| 15:56.03 | kd3|netbook | wtf |
| 15:56.05 | Fisker | i would be zenzelezz |
| 15:56.05 | Cairenn | you too, huh? |
| 15:56.39 | Lopeppeppy | Yeah... too bad I find that sort of thing a total turn off, huh? |
| 15:56.48 | Cairenn | indeed |
| 15:56.50 | Kraps | so he was gonna send it to a woman |
| 15:57.12 | Adys | i've taken pictures of other's people's genitals and randomly sent them to Cair-- er, girls. |
| 15:57.17 | zenzelezz | what makes you so sure about that Kraps? |
| 15:57.20 | Cairenn | lol |
| 15:57.23 | kd3|netbook | wtfs again |
| 15:57.38 | Kraps | zenzelezz: thats what i'm hoping |
| 15:57.38 | Adys | screencaps kd3|genitals |
| 15:58.05 | kd3|netbook | makes sure his netbook's camera is disabled >.> |
| 15:58.32 | kd3|netbook | yawn. can't believe I have to take this class |
| 15:58.34 | Cairenn | do you frequently sit around with your genitals showing, kd3|netbook? |
| 15:58.34 | Adys | Are you saying you're naked? |
| 15:58.38 | Adys | ... in class? |
| 15:58.50 | kd3|netbook | this is my assignment for today in object-oriented: http://science.kennesaw.edu/~bsetzer/2350fa10/build/notes/notes0908.html |
| 15:58.55 | kd3|netbook | no, no I'm not naked |
| 15:59.01 | Adys | Cairenn: topic plz |
| 15:59.02 | Cairenn | (hence the need to make sure your camera is off?) |
| 15:59.07 | zenzelezz | Adys: wait, are we not supposed to be naked in class? That explains all those funny looks I got |
| 15:59.19 | Kraps | http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2010/09/transparency.jpg |
| 15:59.25 | kd3|netbook | though we're a pretty progressive campus I think walking around naked is pushing it |
| 16:02.58 | Fisker | gentlemen |
| 16:03.10 | DWSR | inserts TF2 theme |
| 16:03.42 | Fisker | no |
| 16:03.49 | DWSR | yes |
| 16:04.17 | Kraps | hey DWSR |
| 16:04.25 | DWSR | hey Kraps |
| 16:04.39 | DWSR | whats up? |
| 16:04.46 | DWSR | misses the auto-correct on his android. |
| 16:05.08 | Fisker | why don't you android anymore? |
| 16:05.15 | DWSR | I do. |
| 16:05.18 | DWSR | I'm just on my computer right now |
| 16:05.22 | Kraps | just meh |
| 16:05.23 | DWSR | And it doesn't auto correct whats to what's. |
| 16:06.17 | Kraps | "I don't think I've put down a Freezing Trap since the Bush Administration." lulz |
| 16:06.18 | DWSR | kd3: I'm sorry. |
| 16:06.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Sliker (~ponies@5e07fe7d.bb.sky.com) |
| 16:06.29 | DWSR | Kraps: win |
| 16:06.37 | DWSR | The /first/ Bush administration |
| 16:07.15 | DWSR | Anyone seen f.lux? |
| 16:07.33 | DWSR | http://www.stereopsis.com/flux/\ |
| 16:08.24 | mikma | is there some sort of event firing when you remove the +dps +heal + + + in icc10/25? |
| 16:08.43 | DWSR | mikma: You mean the buff? |
| 16:08.46 | kd3|netbook | unit_aura? |
| 16:08.51 | DWSR | UNIT_AURAS |
| 16:08.53 | DWSR | err. |
| 16:08.54 | DWSR | -S |
| 16:10.00 | kd3|netbook | meh, at least I'm getting some time to catch up on news |
| 16:10.07 | mikma | kinda need to find out who removes the buff from raid |
| 16:10.11 | alestane | So your teacher wants you to write an elif chain, kd3|netbook? |
| 16:10.18 | foxlit | mikma: kick everyone. You are now safe. |
| 16:10.33 | kd3|netbook | yes |
| 16:10.43 | alestane | Okay. Next? |
| 16:10.47 | DWSR | mikma: You can't. |
| 16:10.51 | mikma | popo |
| 16:10.54 | mikma | poop* :) |
| 16:11.03 | kd3|netbook | dunno. I've already turned the assignment in. I'm just being polite until class ends and the "lab" begins |
| 16:11.22 | alestane | And this is a second-year -level class? |
| 16:11.27 | kd3|netbook | yes |
| 16:11.39 | Fisker | i wish i could kill you kd3 |
| 16:11.44 | kd3|netbook | but at least he's teaching separation of gui and logic |
| 16:12.15 | DWSR | kd3: Why? |
| 16:12.15 | alestane | I would have expected more from my IT104 students, if I were there to teach the class this term like I'd applied. |
| 16:12.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (~Lunessa@WoWUIDev/Lunessa) |
| 16:12.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~callahan@74-141-246-74.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 16:12.38 | Lunessa | station |
| 16:12.48 | Kraps | pizza |
| 16:12.55 | alestane | Apple's huge on that separation, I can't read a piece of their docs without running across "MVC" somewhere. |
| 16:13.07 | kd3|netbook | because I've had to rewrite crappy web stores putting all of the logic in the display code before |
| 16:13.10 | kd3|netbook | sighs |
| 16:13.46 | alestane | And he wants you to practice making a zip folder. |
| 16:14.07 | zenzelezz | a zip... folder? |
| 16:14.12 | kd3|netbook | some people are still not doing that properly, apparently |
| 16:14.29 | alestane | To zip the solution folder, zenzelezz. |
| 16:14.39 | alestane | He doesn't actually call it a zip folder. |
| 16:14.39 | zenzelezz | I see |
| 16:15.07 | alestane | Windows, however, does actually refer to zip files as compressed folders. |
| 16:15.39 | alestane | What's WPF? |
| 16:15.53 | DWSR | Windows Protection Foundation, I think. |
| 16:15.54 | zenzelezz | Windows Presentation Forms or something |
| 16:15.56 | kd3|netbook | windows presentation forms? |
| 16:15.59 | DWSR | That. |
| 16:16.09 | DWSR | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Presentation_Foundation |
| 16:16.12 | DWSR | Windows Presentation Foundation |
| 16:16.17 | DWSR | So, we were all half right. |
| 16:16.17 | alestane | Ah. |
| 16:16.34 | alestane | Okay, the standard GUI API then. |
| 16:17.09 | DWSR | yes |
| 16:17.13 | DWSR | in Windows, anyway |
| 16:17.22 | kd3|netbook | cries at mono |
| 16:17.32 | Fisker | pees on mono |
| 16:17.33 | Fisker | HOHO |
| 16:17.45 | Fisker | btw we're all going to die |
| 16:17.46 | zenzelezz | don't know if I'd say "the" standard |
| 16:17.50 | Fisker | asteroids and shit |
| 16:18.11 | kd3|netbook | oh, the two we just discovered that are closer than the moon? |
| 16:18.12 | kd3|netbook | laughs |
| 16:18.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (~Srosh@d019131.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 16:18.55 | alestane | Also, did I see him saying something about building a class of static functions? |
| 16:19.57 | kd3|netbook | no. he wanted us to create a letter class with one private instance variables and two exposed properties, which is where the price calculation's supposed to take place |
| 16:20.06 | kd3|netbook | s/variables/variable/ |
| 16:20.18 | alestane | In the class notes, not the lab. |
| 16:20.47 | kd3|netbook | oh, meh. he worded it weirdly. he's doing it as instance methods right now |
| 16:21.33 | alestane | I don't think he was suggesting that for this particular problem, but it sounded like he was advocating singletons if your logic was functional rather than data-based. |
| 16:23.37 | kd3|netbook | oh, yeah. that line. he just glossed over it and went to the object/class line since we're in an oop class, after all |
| 16:24.35 | Fisker | LOL |
| 16:24.40 | Fisker | intel can't prefixes |
| 16:24.46 | Fisker | that fucking sucks |
| 16:25.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@pool019.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 16:25.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 16:25.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (~Kaso@host217-44-64-100.range217-44.btcentralplus.com) |
| 16:26.49 | Fisker | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U4Af2qmgFA#t=0m52s <-baww |
| 16:27.02 | *** join/#wowuidev EthanCentaurai (~ethan@78.148.48.228) |
| 16:28.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Humbedooh (~Humbedooh@port530.ds1-op.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 16:33.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (kalroth@d40aa7ad.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 16:33.12 | kd3|netbook | lunch! |
| 16:33.13 | p3lim | damn bugs, Tipping the Balance stops the whole chain in Uldum |
| 16:33.29 | p3lim | looked all over the place, couldnt find more quests |
| 16:33.51 | p3lim | done 46 total in the zone, but have talked with people that has gotten past Tipping the Balance, and have done 70+ |
| 16:35.20 | *** join/#wowuidev isman (~drag@mna75-2-82-67-196-34.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:35.44 | NightHawkTheSane | http://booktwo.org/notebook/wikipedia-historiography/ |
| 16:39.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen (~Kevin@149-169-58-201.nat.asu.edu) |
| 16:40.33 | Fisker | hey NightHawkTheSane |
| 16:41.16 | *** join/#wowuidev durcyn (~durcyn@WoWUIDev/Durcyn) |
| 16:42.25 | Ackis | "Toulouse says team member training has been updated to better address issues such as these, so residents of Intercourse, Pennsylvania, and Cumming, Georgia, can rest easy." |
| 16:42.35 | Ackis | Someone on xbox got banned for living in Fort Gay, WV |
| 16:42.51 | durcyn | so apple's automounter dies and takes the shell with it when time machine runs while an NFS server is mounted |
| 16:43.12 | durcyn | this is awesome. |
| 16:43.20 | Cidan | durcyn: half time time, mounting a samba share takes finder out for me |
| 16:43.25 | Cidan | have to reboot |
| 16:43.41 | foxlit | killall EVERYTHING |
| 16:43.43 | durcyn | it manifests itself as broken window focus, task switching doesn't work |
| 16:43.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso| (~Kaso@host217-44-64-100.range217-44.btcentralplus.com) |
| 16:43.54 | durcyn | killing finder sometimes works |
| 16:43.55 | foxlit | But yes, os x's samba sucks. |
| 16:44.18 | foxlit | (pathetic copy speeds from network drives, too) |
| 16:44.27 | durcyn | add NFS to the list of suck. and of course netatalk has its own issues :| |
| 16:44.29 | Cidan | It's just finder, it's really just, a bad program |
| 16:44.51 | Adys | !api GetContainerItemQuestInfo |
| 16:44.52 | lua_bot | GetContainerItemQuestInfo: This function is not yet documented (http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/GetContainerItemQuestInfo) |
| 16:45.02 | foxlit | ~api GetContainerItemQuestInfo |
| 16:45.02 | purl | http://www.wowwiki.com/API_GetContainerItemQuestInfo |
| 16:45.12 | durcyn | i wonder if the linux kernel's been patched for the chipset in this new mini, gentoo gets more appealing by the day compared to this apple fuckery |
| 16:45.30 | Cidan | likely, yes |
| 16:48.19 | Cidan | bleh, I need my beta key so I can work on interface |
| 16:48.21 | Cidan | question |
| 16:48.26 | Cidan | is it possible to avoid story on logging in? |
| 16:48.35 | Cidan | ie: does something epic happen when you login? |
| 16:48.45 | Cidan | I pretty much want to stand still in the beta, and fix interface code |
| 16:48.45 | durcyn | for a new character? you can cancel it, if that's what you mean. |
| 16:49.17 | Cide | why would "something epic" happen? |
| 16:49.37 | Cidan | I don't know, an intro of some sorts. |
| 16:49.45 | Cidan | Just asking. |
| 16:53.04 | Lunessa | Cidan: Don't make a goblin or worgen then. |
| 16:53.09 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3|netbook (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 16:53.51 | Ackis | hey everyone |
| 16:53.56 | Ackis | Fisker is the best person in the world. |
| 16:54.03 | Ackis | Fisker: ^ |
| 16:54.57 | *** join/#wowuidev durcyn (~durcyn@WoWUIDev/Durcyn) |
| 16:55.06 | kd3|netbook | uh huh |
| 16:57.24 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 17:03.24 | Kraps | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wave_%28TV_special%29 too awesome |
| 17:04.21 | Fisker | Kraps |
| 17:04.24 | Fisker | i will kill you |
| 17:04.50 | foxlit | Cidan: copy your live character |
| 17:04.54 | foxlit | And stay in Northrend |
| 17:06.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Sliker (~ponies@5e07fe7d.bb.sky.com) |
| 17:07.54 | alestane | So, determining that I will not actually need the text for the intro to programming course I was hoping to teach. Now I'm trying to decide whether I should put it in the used book drop, or just recycle it to prevent it from falling into the wrong hands. |
| 17:08.07 | alestane | The wrong hands in this case being anyone who wants to learn to program. |
| 17:09.28 | zenzelezz | god... watching old episodes of Simpsons hurts |
| 17:09.33 | zenzelezz | voices and drawing... so bad |
| 17:11.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Borgleader (Borgleader@132.207.245.124) |
| 17:12.26 | Cidan | foxlit: thanks, xD |
| 17:13.33 | ckknight | zenzelezz: what season? |
| 17:14.13 | Kraps | i love the reviewers "hur dur its not realistic, it would never happen in real life" |
| 17:14.22 | zenzelezz | ckknight: first |
| 17:15.03 | Kraps | cuz nazi germany was fake and gay |
| 17:15.56 | foxlit | Kraps: you mean to say it wasn't?! |
| 17:16.02 | foxlit | </american stereotype> |
| 17:18.39 | ckknight | zenzelezz: ah, very true. The animation really only started coming into its own in season 3 |
| 17:19.11 | cog|work | sorta like the writing in ST:TNG |
| 17:19.18 | NightHawkTheSane | zenzelezz: a lot of series are like that though, where the first season its searching to find its proper voice |
| 17:19.54 | zenzelezz | NightHawkTheSane: true |
| 17:20.09 | Kraps | they should make it a feature length movie |
| 17:21.08 | durcyn | how many sharks has simpsons jumped at this point, an even dozen? |
| 17:21.36 | zenzelezz | I don't care what others say, I still enjoy the new episodes |
| 17:22.00 | Shadowed | Simpsons is enjoyable in the same way eating a gallon of icecream is |
| 17:23.00 | jnwhiteh | Who was asking about backdrops earlier today? |
| 17:23.09 | *** join/#wowuidev cygni (~slip@cm145-182.resnet.csumb.edu) |
| 17:23.20 | Cairenn | pokes Parnic with a http://www.wowinterface.com/betaguide.php |
| 17:23.22 | Cairenn | ;) |
| 17:23.44 | foxlit | Wasn't me, but what about backdrops? |
| 17:23.47 | foxlit | Weren't they removed? |
| 17:23.53 | jnwhiteh | they're deprecated |
| 17:24.06 | jnwhiteh | he was asking how to use the tiling system to do the same thing |
| 17:24.27 | foxlit | Does tiling work on live at the moment? |
| 17:24.31 | jnwhiteh | no |
| 17:24.36 | jnwhiteh | its a 4.x thing afaik |
| 17:24.39 | foxlit | ah. Okay. |
| 17:24.48 | jnwhiteh | and backdrops weren't removed |
| 17:24.52 | jnwhiteh | they should just be migrated eventually |
| 17:24.56 | jnwhiteh | the tiling system supercedes it |
| 17:25.03 | ParnicWork | <3 Cairenn. Thanks! :) |
| 17:25.12 | Cairenn | You're welcome :) |
| 17:25.35 | foxlit | "DEPRECIATED" |
| 17:25.38 | foxlit | someone had fun |
| 17:26.05 | EthanCentaurai | deprecated =/= depreciated |
| 17:26.33 | foxlit | EthanCentaurai: yes. Thank you for pointing out my point. |
| 17:27.29 | Adys | ~seen tuller |
| 17:27.36 | purl | tuller <~muffins@c-69-143-56-163.hsd1.va.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowuidev, 16h 13m 26s ago, saying: 'so is my theory correct in that GetItemInfo in the beta is subject to the same dynamic loading as the rest of the client?'. |
| 17:27.36 | Adys | ~ping |
| 17:27.36 | purl | ~pong |
| 17:27.57 | foxlit | http://wow.go-hero.net/framexml/12857/UIParent.lua#2703 << hah, that's just silly |
| 17:28.18 | Adys | foxlit: wth? |
| 17:28.30 | foxlit | It used to be a C function |
| 17:28.36 | Adys | Yeah but why would they do that? |
| 17:28.44 | foxlit | Presumably because their code didn't run without it |
| 17:28.45 | KarlKFI|work | @deprecated |
| 17:28.49 | Adys | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:28.51 | cog|work | because it's deprecated |
| 17:28.56 | cog|work | they want you to use _G instead |
| 17:29.00 | cbreak | oh fun |
| 17:29.06 | Adys | yes, but why not delete it entirely is what I meant >.> |
| 17:29.10 | cog|work | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?sid=2000&topicId=26560499864 |
| 17:29.11 | Adys | meh |
| 17:29.19 | cog|work | because that wouldn't be deprecated then ;) |
| 17:29.20 | foxlit | or why not leave it there if you're going to leave it there anyway? |
| 17:29.35 | Adys | deprecation ftl. |
| 17:29.36 | foxlit | I mean, they had a C implementation. They could deprecate /that/. Instead, they removed it. |
| 17:29.41 | cog|work | why deprecate anything? so that you don't have to invest as much immediately in order to fix it... |
| 17:29.44 | alestane | I think that's part of the "We really mean it, this is gonna go away" message. |
| 17:30.44 | NightHawkTheSane | 4.0 would be a great time to ACTUALLY make it go away, though :\ |
| 17:30.50 | Adys | is there a cvar or whatever to disable quest item highlighting in bags? |
| 17:30.55 | Adys | NightHawkTheSane: yeah exactly |
| 17:30.57 | cog|work | NightHawkTheSane: sure, if it were deprecated before |
| 17:31.00 | foxlit | Adys: yes |
| 17:31.04 | foxlit | It's also exposed as an option |
| 17:31.05 | cog|work | like they're doing with arg1, this, etc. |
| 17:31.10 | Adys | foxlit: i can't find it |
| 17:31.24 | Adys | cog|work: I really disagree. are addons even officially supported? |
| 17:31.31 | Adys | they dont HAVE to deprecate features |
| 17:31.32 | alestane | It's also not inconceivable that it's deprecated for beta. |
| 17:31.40 | Adys | true alestane |
| 17:31.41 | foxlit | Or maybe not. |
| 17:31.47 | NightHawkTheSane | cog|work: yeah, and I'm all for deprecation, but really, this is a great time to say "this is gone, deal with it" There's a lot of time to deal with the fallout |
| 17:31.57 | Kraps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlJdsX181QU&feature=channel |
| 17:32.02 | *** part/#wowuidev Sixen (~Kevin@149-169-58-201.nat.asu.edu) |
| 17:32.04 | NightHawkTheSane | alestane: and removed totally in release? could be |
| 17:32.13 | Adys | that would be nice |
| 17:32.20 | foxlit | That just seems to be setting themselves up for failure |
| 17:32.35 | Adys | of course it likely wont happen |
| 17:32.40 | Adys | but it would be the best case scenario |
| 17:32.59 | foxlit | "Hey guys, let's run a beta to get people to test stuff, and then do a bunch of breaking changes in release" |
| 17:33.01 | alestane | One of my favorite add-ons is actually struggling on Beta because it relied on "this" somewhere. |
| 17:33.02 | NightHawkTheSane | I think "best case" is they depreate it for a half-dozen builds, then remove it for the rest of beta :P |
| 17:33.05 | Adys | foxlit: if you can find the option tell me; im trying to add it to bagnon 1. |
| 17:33.06 | Adys | x |
| 17:33.13 | NightHawkTheSane | deprecate* |
| 17:33.19 | Adys | aye NightHawkTheSane thats what i meant |
| 17:33.20 | Fisker | always bet on duke NightHawkTheSane |
| 17:33.39 | Fisker | what's a varrrrrrrrrrrrr? |
| 17:33.51 | foxlit | Adys: can't find it either :/ |
| 17:34.02 | NightHawkTheSane | (rather, a half dozen builds after addons are finally, permanently enabled) |
| 17:34.04 | foxlit | Perhaps it did not exist; I recall there being an addon to fix it for default frames |
| 17:34.05 | Adys | mmk |
| 17:34.06 | NightHawkTheSane | (but now i'm just digressing) |
| 17:34.13 | Adys | i was pretty sure there used to be one but .. yeah |
| 17:34.18 | nevcairiel | hmm is that a new feature that google live changes the main search result when i'm typing into the search box on the page? o.O |
| 17:34.31 | Adys | nevcairiel: yep |
| 17:34.56 | NightHawkTheSane | nevcairiel: yeah, i noticed that earlier today. freaked me the hell out |
| 17:35.12 | nevcairiel | i was like .. huh? |
| 17:35.14 | NightHawkTheSane | http://www.google.com/instant/ |
| 17:35.25 | foxlit | Adys: there was another option that seemingly vanished as well -- I can't find where I can disable {star} icons in chat/public channels |
| 17:36.09 | Adys | huh, yeah i cant find it either |
| 17:36.15 | Adys | they might have removed it because of bnet |
| 17:36.21 | kneeki | Is PLAYER_LOGON the best event to use when making some chat frame modifications? It doesn't seem to always work best. Occasionally my changes are made, then the wow changes are made... |
| 17:36.40 | Adys | use player_enter_world instead |
| 17:36.55 | kneeki | thought so |
| 17:36.56 | kneeki | thx! |
| 17:37.51 | Adys | so |
| 17:37.52 | Adys | *awesome* |
| 17:38.00 | Adys | quest item highlight in bagnon |
| 17:38.04 | Adys | my life has a meaning once again |
| 17:38.15 | cbreak | 5.2 makes getglobal and setglobal gone afaik |
| 17:38.22 | cbreak | unless you run in compatibility mode? |
| 17:38.38 | Adys | are they updating to 5.2 for cata? |
| 17:38.48 | cbreak | 5.2 is not out yet. |
| 17:38.53 | cbreak | maybe they are preparing for it |
| 17:39.00 | Adys | neat |
| 17:39.27 | *** join/#wowuidev durcyn (~durcyn@WoWUIDev/Durcyn) |
| 17:39.48 | cbreak | only heard them talk about the removal in #lua |
| 17:40.06 | cbreak | seems they also want to remove pairs and ipairs or so |
| 17:40.11 | batbot | Shirik cannot destroy me. |
| 17:40.40 | ParnicWork | wait what? what is their intended replacement for pairs? |
| 17:40.50 | cbreak | no idea. |
| 17:40.52 | Pneumatus | __pairs and __ipairs metamethods |
| 17:40.53 | cbreak | next? |
| 17:41.10 | cbreak | it's probably less efficient :) |
| 17:41.35 | alestane | I have not heard that they want to remove pairs. |
| 17:41.42 | ParnicWork | that would be a big deal |
| 17:42.17 | alestane | There was talking of removing ipairs because the behavior is not always predictable and a numeric loop is more efficient. |
| 17:48.07 | Humbedooh | ipairs I can understand, but removing pairs wouldn't make sense |
| 17:48.38 | Humbedooh | unless they replaced it with a keys() function or something |
| 17:49.14 | cbreak | there's next |
| 17:49.48 | alestane | However, the most recent work version of 5.2 put ipairs back in. |
| 17:51.33 | alestane | I think what's regarded as the problem is that ipairs always terminates when it would return a nil pair, whereas the length operator returns some unspecified integer n such that t[n] ~= nil and t[n + 1] == nil. |
| 17:58.14 | foxlit | cbreak: a single function call is the difference between pairs and next |
| 17:58.33 | foxlit | Liked iteration in 5.0 better, though |
| 17:58.58 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (~nuohep@89.222.156.36) |
| 17:59.06 | alestane | "for k, v in table do"? |
| 17:59.11 | foxlit | yes |
| 17:59.47 | alestane | Some people keep saying we should just have a __iter metamethod that works like that...could you iterate over non-table generations, though? |
| 18:00.15 | foxlit | alestane: it's all syntactic sugar in implementation |
| 18:00.24 | foxlit | They can keep the current function, object, index triple for iteration |
| 18:01.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Eluna (~Eluna@85.196.121.142) |
| 18:01.09 | Humbedooh | if it ain't broken, why fix it |
| 18:01.32 | DWSR | Anyone here own stereo bluetooth headphones? |
| 18:01.51 | foxlit | DWSR: yes. |
| 18:02.21 | alestane | It can't know at compile-time whether a value supplied should be iterated on directly or invoked to produce an iterator, though. |
| 18:02.49 | DWSR | Suggestions as to a pair to buy, foxlit? |
| 18:03.55 | foxlit | alestane: so it's basically the same as foo[stuff] |
| 18:04.20 | foxlit | where it doesn't know whether it's a table lookup or an __index call |
| 18:05.14 | alestane | But if I want to iterate over function results, I don't really want to have to create a proxy object for the sole purpose of having the iterator function as its metamethod. |
| 18:05.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Talyian (~Tali@lvps87-230-93-253.dedicated.hosteurope.de) |
| 18:05.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Talyian (~Tali@unaffiliated/talyian) |
| 18:06.16 | foxlit | That's the same as it is now? |
| 18:06.25 | foxlit | Or not. Sorry. |
| 18:07.56 | DWSR | foxlit: what stereo bt phones do you have? |
| 18:08.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@adsl-41-125-95.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 18:09.05 | foxlit | dwsr: sony dr-bt140q |
| 18:09.07 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 18:09.50 | foxlit | It's a neat idea, but I do not necessarily need them, so meh. |
| 18:10.05 | DWSR | You listen to music in them? |
| 18:10.27 | foxlit | Not usually |
| 18:10.53 | foxlit | Mostly when there's too much outside noise for my normal headphones to be bearable |
| 18:13.12 | DWSR | They have a microphone in them? |
| 18:13.21 | foxlit | apparently. |
| 18:13.35 | foxlit | Not sure what use a microphone mounted on your ear facing outwards is |
| 18:13.43 | DWSR | I'm thinking of getting a pair for my android phone so that I can listen to music and take calls with no wires. |
| 18:13.58 | DWSR | You ever tried it for making calls? |
| 18:14.05 | foxlit | No |
| 18:18.22 | *** part/#wowuidev Krahg (~Krahg@121.136.59.215) |
| 18:20.34 | zenzelezz | "Google Instant is a new search enhancement that shows results as you type. We are pushing the limits of our technology and infrastructure to help you get better search results, faster. Our key technical insight was that people type slowly, but read quickly, typically taking 300 milliseconds between keystrokes, but only 30 milliseconds (a tenth of the time!) to glance at another part of the page. This means that you can scan a re |
| 18:20.34 | zenzelezz | sults page while you type." |
| 18:20.37 | zenzelezz | do not want |
| 18:20.39 | *** join/#wowuidev durcyn (~durcyn@WoWUIDev/Durcyn) |
| 18:21.31 | NightHawkTheSane | why not? |
| 18:21.37 | Adys | "disable it then" |
| 18:21.48 | zenzelezz | Adys: as long as they make it a setting, I'm happy with that |
| 18:22.06 | foxlit | why not, btw? |
| 18:22.24 | Adys | no, they won't make it a setting, they want to lose a few percents of market share, which represents alone millions of users |
| 18:23.19 | zenzelezz | foxlit/NightHawkTheSane: I just don't like that sort of thing; and I often find myself half-typing a search phrase, then stopping and rephrasing a few times |
| 18:23.25 | zenzelezz | just like when I type anything else really |
| 18:23.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Sliker (~ponies@5e07fe7d.bb.sky.com) |
| 18:24.28 | nicoli_s | yeah i wasnt too impressed when i tried it, it must think i type too slow, as when trying to search my name it started showing results for nicol and showed me lots of women named nicole |
| 18:25.50 | foxlit | how often do you egosearch? |
| 18:26.25 | nicoli_s | very rarely |
| 18:26.39 | nicoli_s | but other people in the office were using it as an example so i did too |
| 18:31.48 | foxlit | It's just that nobody else is likely to be searching for your name |
| 18:31.53 | foxlit | So their predictive power is zero for that query |
| 18:32.36 | foxlit | While if you were searching for something popular, the odds are they'd be able to guess it from what other people were searching for |
| 18:33.03 | foxlit | Having said that, they haven't rolled it out here, so I can't comment on its usefulness |
| 18:33.34 | nevcairiel | cant you go to google.com/intl ? |
| 18:33.52 | nevcairiel | or what was the link for non-localized |
| 18:33.54 | nevcairiel | looks |
| 18:33.55 | zenzelezz | so do they show both the suggested searches (the old dropdown) *and* real-time search results? |
| 18:34.27 | nevcairiel | yes |
| 18:34.54 | zenzelezz | that sounds messy... guess I'll see when they roll it out here |
| 18:35.21 | nevcairiel | google.com/ncr was the link |
| 18:41.43 | foxlit | nevcairiel: defaults to google.com |
| 18:42.56 | Kraps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TrPwOrf4sM&feature=channel |
| 18:45.19 | *** join/#wowuidev RJohn1 (~Tanner@h123.65.149.24.cable.rdwd.jetbroadband.com) |
| 18:46.24 | Lunessa | alestane: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/9/8/ - ROFL |
| 18:47.03 | *** join/#wowuidev EthanCentaurai (~ethan@78.148.48.228) |
| 18:47.21 | alestane | "Mastercard: Proud Sponsor of the Boston Red Sox...and owners of Denis Leary's left nut." |
| 18:47.35 | *** join/#wowuidev shifuimam (~shifuimam@polatrite.com) |
| 18:47.54 | alestane | I like how they do the first panel in 99-00 art style. |
| 18:48.27 | Lunessa | Yeah |
| 18:49.56 | alestane | "What I didn't know was that over the course of the show Robert had been keeping an eye on the Freeplay Stages in an effort to cobble together a crack team that could deliver this song note for note after a single runthrough. Understand that I had not seen Robert at all until twenty minutes before I was supposed to go on, and when I did see him, he brought me three young men, told me there was nothing they could not ac |
| 18:49.56 | alestane | complish in within the confines of the rhythm genre, and then immediately left the room through a door which only a few moments prior had not existed." |
| 18:50.14 | foxlit | wonder if it makes sense to update my 2nd gen ipod to 4.1 |
| 18:53.57 | Gagorian | no |
| 18:54.19 | Gagorian | I guess no harm, but there's really not much use either |
| 18:54.36 | Gagorian | I've done it but didn't really notice any change |
| 18:55.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen (~Kevin@149-169-89-96.nat.asu.edu) |
| 18:55.24 | Gagorian | 4.0 that is |
| 18:57.02 | EthanCentaurai | being the uber nerd that I am I eagerly downloaded 4.1 |
| 18:57.04 | EthanCentaurai | BUT |
| 18:57.08 | EthanCentaurai | my iPhone is the 3G |
| 18:57.13 | EthanCentaurai | so I gain nothing |
| 18:57.16 | EthanCentaurai | FFFFFUUUUU- |
| 18:57.24 | ParnicWork | except an actual, working ios4, right? :P |
| 18:57.30 | ParnicWork | i hear it was useless on 3g before |
| 18:57.35 | alestane | Lunessa: "At our final Q&A, a young man took the microphone to thank us for creating the unique PAX community which has drawn him back year after year, but I know something he doesn't: we didn't create that community. |
| 18:57.35 | alestane | "We guessed it was there, theorized it like some mysterious particle, and created the show to verify its existence. Â For us, PAX succeeds to the extent that we stay out of your way, allowing that natural allegiance to make itself known." |
| 18:57.45 | EthanCentaurai | it worked fine |
| 18:57.54 | EthanCentaurai | the only issues were half-finished apps |
| 18:58.12 | alestane | The 3G hardware won't support multitasking, so the gains are somewhat reduced. |
| 18:58.18 | ParnicWork | alestane: wouldn't it be easier to just link to penny-arcade.com instead of reproducing the news post? :P |
| 18:58.22 | Lunessa | alestane: Exactly. One does not create a community - one creates venues where community happens. |
| 18:58.53 | alestane | I can't take a highlighter pen to the web page, ParnicWork. |
| 18:59.18 | kneeki | On the ChatFrames, is there a way to move the anchor from Left, to Right, so it's on the right side of the frame by default? |
| 18:59.28 | alestane | I was at the one they just did in Boston, Lunessa; it was absolutely and gloriously insane. |
| 18:59.48 | Lunessa | I will eventually make it to one. |
| 19:00.17 | ParnicWork | alestane: http://roohit.com/site/home.php :P |
| 19:00.20 | Lunessa | mettings time... |
| 19:00.44 | *** join/#wowuidev nebula169 (~Neb@c-75-73-235-102.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 19:00.51 | alestane | And it had clearly been waiting to happen, nascent, for some time. Attendance was something like 22,000. |
| 19:02.43 | Kraps | huh the olsen twins used to be cute |
| 19:05.38 | *** join/#wowuidev palewitz (~chatzilla@c-064-186-233-091.oc1.redwire.net) |
| 19:10.49 | *** join/#wowuidev eidolarr (~zls@c-24-6-102-75.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 19:11.35 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 19:11.35 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 19:14.04 | TC-Work | dances |
| 19:22.25 | TC-Work | why is it so quiet in here? |
| 19:23.36 | kd3|netbook | dunno |
| 19:24.57 | TC-Work | it's prolly all the lack of drunk Cairenn talk |
| 19:25.08 | Cairenn | heh |
| 19:25.20 | NightHawkTheSane | food coma. |
| 19:25.52 | TC-Work | NightHawkTheSane: what did you have so much of? |
| 19:26.36 | NightHawkTheSane | pho |
| 19:28.13 | alestane | Preoccupied with catching up on my finances; need good info to evaluate how bad an idea leaving my job yesterday was. |
| 19:28.29 | NightHawkTheSane | :o |
| 19:28.52 | NightHawkTheSane | alestane: well if you disliked it enough to leave it, probably not that bad of an idea |
| 19:28.57 | alestane | I suspect that staying would have been worse. |
| 19:29.43 | alestane | More or less out of the blue, they sat me down and wanted me to explain why they should keep employing me, so I ended up saying "Don't bother." |
| 19:30.13 | Cidan | NightHawkTheSane: love pho, so much. damn it, now I want. |
| 19:30.40 | NightHawkTheSane | Cidan: indeed. i could /almost/ eat it every day. |
| 19:30.59 | NightHawkTheSane | alestane: o_0 that's crazy. |
| 19:31.20 | NightHawkTheSane | any company that asks you to validate your employment isn't worth staying at. |
| 19:31.54 | NightHawkTheSane | out of curiosity, where did you work/what did you do? |
| 19:32.09 | alestane | The school had a couple of zany quarters, and we're graded on our attendance and success rate, so there were a couple nutty classes dragging down my numbers. |
| 19:33.15 | alestane | And they agreed that those weren't necessarily their fault, but that they couldn't afford instructors who didn't produce results whatever the reason, but they were prepared to offer me one new class to redeem myself if I could tell them what I would do differently to prevent it being such a fail. |
| 19:34.15 | alestane | So I told them that what I would do differently was let someone else teach the class, and they could get on whoever's case it was about their student success rate. |
| 19:34.29 | NightHawkTheSane | heh |
| 19:35.08 | alestane | I taught multimedia and game design courses at ITT Tech, NightHawkTheSane. |
| 19:36.31 | NightHawkTheSane | Ah. |
| 19:37.17 | NightHawkTheSane | I probably don't have the knowledge/context to say this, but it seems like they cared more about passing students than teaching a proper course. |
| 19:37.29 | TC-Work | NightHawkTheSane: you would be correct |
| 19:37.31 | alestane | It's an "education for profit" venue. |
| 19:37.47 | TC-Work | and whats pho? |
| 19:37.59 | NightHawkTheSane | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ph%E1%BB%9F |
| 19:38.21 | NightHawkTheSane | "education for profit" is usually neither. >< |
| 19:38.57 | TC-Work | hmm...i may have had that |
| 19:39.04 | alestane | While they're currently trying to gain regional accreditation, their first concern is maintaining a student base to keep paying tuition. They've concluded that students who fail get discouraged and drop out more often, so they're now pretty much holding instructors personally accountable for every student who doesn't progress in their courses. |
| 19:39.49 | NightHawkTheSane | thats, pleasant. |
| 19:40.00 | alestane | So they REALLY didn't like the course where 38% of the student attempts resulted in passes. |
| 19:40.01 | TC-Work | after getting accredited their new slogan is going to be "Come get your Ph.D. at ITT" |
| 19:40.11 | Cidan | foxlit: Do you accept patches for OPie? |
| 19:40.44 | foxlit | Cidan: I'd gladly look at them, at any case :) |
| 19:40.51 | NightHawkTheSane | alestane: heh, that was "university physics 1" at my university. 60% fail rate, and they told students this ahead of time. |
| 19:40.53 | Cidan | h'ok |
| 19:41.15 | alestane | They agreed that the move from Woburn to Wilmington two weeks into that quarter was extremely disruptive, but couldn't exempt the course from consideration (probably because their own jobs are on the line for the exodus from the school). |
| 19:41.30 | foxlit | No guarantees about it getting in, but if it does something useful, you've got a pretty nice chance :) |
| 19:41.31 | NightHawkTheSane | alestane: can you try to get a job at an "actual" collge/university? |
| 19:41.48 | alestane | Thing is, NightHawkTheSane, I'd taught the course twice before with more like 85% success rates. |
| 19:42.14 | alestane | I'd pretty much need a Master's degree or very impressive work experience. |
| 19:42.21 | NightHawkTheSane | :\ |
| 19:42.25 | Dagmar | So basically you're telling us they're running a diploma mill |
| 19:42.33 | alestane | Like "Redefined my field" work experience. |
| 19:42.39 | alestane | Very nearly, Dagmar. |
| 19:42.44 | Cidan | foxlit: Of course, I would expect no less; before I go off writing a patch though, let me ask you if you'd like this idea: a profile selection/saving system. Right now, profiles are saved per character, but I want to further abstract that, and let players save multiple profiles per character that can be swapped on the fly (out of combat) |
| 19:43.01 | alestane | They have something vaguely resembling legitimacy, but it doesn't hold a lot of water. |
| 19:43.07 | foxlit | Cidan: I think you're labouring under a misconception. |
| 19:43.26 | Dagmar | Nah man, if they're going after professors for failures by the students like that, it's a diploma mill |
| 19:43.30 | Cidan | Perhaps, please explain. |
| 19:43.44 | foxlit | The profiles are actually (or should be) global |
| 19:43.45 | alestane | They have "national accreditation." |
| 19:43.51 | foxlit | You can already switch them out of combat. |
| 19:44.01 | Dagmar | That actually doesn't mean a whole lot |
| 19:44.01 | Cidan | I see. |
| 19:44.12 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: well, there is SOME validity to looking at a professor if the fail rate is very high, but that cant be the only criteria. |
| 19:44.12 | *** join/#wowuidev TC-Work (~chatzilla@c-064-186-233-091.oc1.redwire.net) |
| 19:44.17 | alestane | Most "legitimate" colleges and universities have "regional accreditation," which is considered much stricter. |
| 19:44.22 | foxlit | I do save which profile you're using per character-spec pair, though |
| 19:44.45 | foxlit | [Which allows things like automatic profile swaps when you change specs] |
| 19:44.51 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: There's no way one semester should cause them to lean on someone |
| 19:45.03 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: oh, absolutely. |
| 19:45.06 | foxlit | But I'm thinking you already tried that and some part of it didn't work? |
| 19:45.32 | Cidan | No, it works fine, but sometimes I have different tasks depending on what I'm doing, not just what I'm specced as |
| 19:45.45 | Cidan | Example, pvp vs pve vs power leveling |
| 19:45.48 | alestane | Supposedly it was three quarters. One class from each. But my aggregate success rate went up 10% if you excluded the course I was teaching when we moved to another town. |
| 19:45.51 | foxlit | [or perhaps my rather narrow definition of a profile as bindings + settings is at fault] |
| 19:45.53 | Dagmar | Keep in mind I'm saying this, and one of the side gigs at the place I work at which is a really fantastically expensive university, is dealing with the people who still want to use paper scantrons |
| 19:46.08 | Dagmar | ...so I see what kinda point spread a whole lot of classes have |
| 19:46.15 | kd3|netbook | paper scantrons? |
| 19:46.16 | foxlit | Cidan: makes sense. Perhaps I should add a slash command to switch so you wouldn't have to open settings every time |
| 19:46.17 | kd3|netbook | winces |
| 19:46.26 | Fisker | slaps kd3|netbook around a bit with a large trout |
| 19:46.30 | Cidan | foxlit: Indeed, then you can tie it to a macro. xD |
| 19:46.30 | mikma | wobin: delicious watermelon must be devoures properly: http://www.geekologie.com/2010/09/how_to_not_fire_a_watermelon_o.php |
| 19:46.34 | kd3|netbook | mmm... trout |
| 19:46.41 | kd3|netbook | heads back downstairs and snags some fish |
| 19:46.46 | Dagmar | Yeah it's just something ITS has always done there, although we're weaning most of them over to the online system |
| 19:47.01 | foxlit | Cidan: or you could write an addon that switches OPie profile when you change equipment sets :) |
| 19:47.07 | Cidan | That too |
| 19:47.27 | alestane | But what they basically told me was that they had to treat me as if it were all my fault, but because of the circumstances, they could give me one more chance if I begged nicely. |
| 19:47.29 | NightHawkTheSane | alestane: yeah, but still, that alone shouldn't be enough |
| 19:47.30 | Cidan | Or even creates a new special ring for profile selection |
| 19:47.35 | alestane | I told them, "No." |
| 19:47.43 | mikma | devoures=devoured |
| 19:48.12 | NightHawkTheSane | seems like a good choice to me. that seems like an unpleasant environment to work in |
| 19:49.12 | alestane | Especially since I had just finished a quarter with a 100% success rate. But given that the dean thanked me and told me they appreciated it when I handed him my ID, I guess they were kind of looking to get rid of me. |
| 19:49.48 | Dagmar | More likely he was thanking you because you didn't make a massive and epic stinkfest out of it |
| 19:49.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Borgleader (Borgleader@132.207.245.124) |
| 19:50.31 | Dagmar | It would have been paperwork with a capital-P if you'd wanted to fight them |
| 19:50.59 | mikma | Pee |
| 19:50.59 | alestane | Well, they had just gone through locking me out of teaching any of my game design courses that I actually came there to teach on the grounds that I didn't have a Master's. |
| 19:51.15 | alestane | So things were going downhill REALLY fast. |
| 19:51.18 | kd3|netbook | wtf |
| 19:51.57 | alestane | When I showed up two years ago, they said they were so happy to see me. And yesterday, they were so happy to see me go. Funny how things change. |
| 19:52.06 | alestane | Is there f-ery, kd3|netbook? |
| 19:54.21 | Fisker | kd3|netbook |
| 19:54.24 | Fisker | you can't bet on duke |
| 19:55.51 | kd3|netbook | I don't bet on duke |
| 19:55.57 | kd3|netbook | alestane; no, I'm just reacting to your situation |
| 19:56.04 | *** join/#wowuidev cygni (~slip@cm145-182.resnet.csumb.edu) |
| 19:56.15 | alestane | That's kind of my response. |
| 19:56.27 | alestane | But it was pretty clear that there was nothing left for me there. |
| 19:57.02 | krka | you should have made it hard for them |
| 19:57.11 | krka | forced them to give you lots of money for quitting |
| 19:57.14 | alestane | Wouldn't have made anything easier on me. |
| 19:57.33 | krka | depending on how the employment laws are where you live |
| 19:57.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Sliker (~ponies@5e07fe7d.bb.sky.com) |
| 19:57.43 | alestane | I was an adjunct instructor, krka. Strictly at-will. |
| 19:57.49 | krka | in sweden you need to have a very good justification for letting someone go |
| 19:57.55 | alestane | They didn't have to fire me; technically, I didn't even quit. |
| 19:58.09 | kd3|netbook | that's not how it works here in the states. we're (mostly) all at-will employees |
| 19:58.10 | alestane | I simply didn't accept what they offered me going forward. |
| 19:58.15 | krka | hm, i see |
| 19:58.45 | alestane | Basically, each contract I signed a contract that they offered me to teach XYZ classes. All they had to do was stop offering them to me. |
| 19:58.53 | alestane | each quarter* |
| 19:58.57 | *** join/#wowuidev TC-Work (~chatzilla@c-064-186-233-091.oc1.redwire.net) |
| 19:59.07 | alestane | No obligation on anyone's part beyond that. |
| 19:59.38 | krka | ah |
| 19:59.51 | kd3|netbook | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment |
| 20:00.25 | Fisker | kd3|netbook |
| 20:00.32 | kd3|netbook | yes, fisk-fisk? |
| 20:00.35 | Fisker | you think you don't but you can't |
| 20:00.56 | alestane | I think my brain just blew a fuse, kd3. |
| 20:01.14 | kd3|netbook | alestane; get offline for a while. do something other than think about ex-work |
| 20:01.23 | alestane | No, over fisk-fisk. |
| 20:01.32 | kd3|netbook | meh, I've been doing that for some time now |
| 20:02.10 | Fisker | he knows it drives me crazy |
| 20:03.42 | alestane | The long and the short of it is that it was a tolerable situation rapidly degenerating into a dreadful one, and I'm well out of every part except the paychecks. |
| 20:04.22 | Dagmar | Sounds like place one is usually expected to strike a pose and declare, "And now we DANCE!" |
| 20:04.28 | NightHawkTheSane | [unrelated] Not that this is news, but I haven't eaten a chicken nugget in ages, and i'm absolutely not starting now: http://www.snotr.com/video/5164 |
| 20:04.55 | kd3|netbook | a McD's one? yeah, don't do that |
| 20:05.11 | Dagmar | I'm still waiting for an answer about what part of the chicken is the nuggets |
| 20:05.20 | NightHawkTheSane | kd3|netbook: any, really. the video is jamie oliver making a chicken nugget. |
| 20:05.32 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: that video answers the question |
| 20:05.33 | kd3|netbook | oh, for the fat kids in west virginia? |
| 20:05.37 | kd3|netbook | yeah, yuck |
| 20:07.21 | *** join/#wowuidev daev (~bleh@pool-72-86-110-88.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 20:07.41 | Dagmar | lol |
| 20:07.49 | Dagmar | "Now who would still eat this?" |
| 20:07.55 | Dagmar | Half the kids raise their hands |
| 20:08.08 | Kraps | what was the 3rd draft of the gnome speech, independence day? |
| 20:08.59 | Dagmar | I don't have a problem with the eating of miscellaneous chicken parts, but I have a problem with that they're so interested in not admitting it's just miscellaneous chicken bits and that they're not very forthcoming about what they add to that |
| 20:10.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 20:11.15 | foxlit | It's silly anyway |
| 20:11.26 | foxlit | "Hey kids, want to eat this stuff?" |
| 20:11.58 | Fisker | i could blow you up foxlit |
| 20:12.07 | foxlit | But you wouldn't |
| 20:13.18 | *** join/#wowuidev RJohn (~Tanner@h123.65.149.24.cable.rdwd.jetbroadband.com) |
| 20:13.51 | Fisker | no foxlit |
| 20:13.57 | Fisker | but i'm trolling for volunteers |
| 20:14.09 | foxlit | see, the system works. |
| 20:15.38 | NightHawkTheSane | wanders off to his sprint review. |
| 20:21.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (~chatzilla@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 20:21.33 | kd3|netbook | crap. rain, for the first time in a week in a half |
| 20:21.44 | kd3|netbook | thinks his umbrella is halfway across campus in his car |
| 20:21.58 | nicoli_s | id love for some rain here |
| 20:24.19 | Adys | is $ a legal char in a GET? |
| 20:24.38 | foxlit | maybe? You're actually talking about URLs |
| 20:24.44 | Adys | yes |
| 20:24.55 | Dagmar | Pass it through a URL-encoding function and find out |
| 20:24.58 | kd3|netbook | probably. I'd escape it to be safe? |
| 20:27.58 | zenzelezz | when in doubt, substitute with "coin shining in the sun" (¤) |
| 20:28.33 | Fisker | http://imgur.com/xfvDj.png <-zomg effort |
| 20:38.17 | Kraps | well i helped recapture gnomers surface... |
| 20:39.34 | Dagmar | *sigh* That's an expensive over |
| 20:39.37 | Dagmar | s/over/one/ |
| 20:40.18 | kneeki | Budd's plan to escape from Uldum is an epic one |
| 20:40.33 | kd3|netbook | yes, yes it is |
| 20:40.46 | kd3|netbook | and with that, off for a while |
| 20:43.23 | *** part/#wowuidev hfdixus (~opera@91.192.189.123) |
| 20:50.28 | foxlit | Chat functionality is fun |
| 20:50.59 | foxlit | "[You] whisper: foo" appears before "To [You]: foo" |
| 20:51.02 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3|netbook (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 20:51.19 | zenzelezz | I find the absence of chat functionality more interesting |
| 20:51.27 | cbreak | yeah. |
| 20:51.34 | cbreak | battle.net 2.0... what a joke. |
| 20:51.47 | zenzelezz | sometimes in Anarchy Online, the chat server would crash, but the game server was still up... so people would drop items on the ground (this didn't delete them) and spell stuff |
| 20:51.57 | kd3|netbook | whee, a line to give blood |
| 20:52.00 | kd3|netbook | yawns |
| 20:52.09 | kd3|netbook | good thing next class isn't until 18:30 |
| 20:54.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (~dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 20:55.07 | cbreak | zenzelezz: gold spammer do that with corpses in wow |
| 20:55.10 | cbreak | at least on my server |
| 20:55.34 | ParnicWork | do you have the spammers that spell out their site in patterns including hovering in mid air? |
| 20:55.41 | zenzelezz | cbreak: yeah, but I don't find that to be the same |
| 20:56.22 | zenzelezz | was more fun watching people try to spell "GSF" and stuff |
| 20:57.01 | zenzelezz | ParnicWork: my realm does... even saw it live recently |
| 20:57.15 | ParnicWork | yeah, cracked me up when i saw them doing that. really creative, actually :P |
| 20:58.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Xyphoid (~xyph@mail.hca.co.nz) |
| 20:58.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Xyphoid (~xyph@unaffiliated/xyphoid) |
| 21:01.33 | *** join/#wowuidev inviso_ (~inviso@207-118-99-211.stat.centurytel.net) |
| 21:01.41 | Kraps | google has instant search |
| 21:01.43 | Zhinjio | it seems that there are no bag addons that do precisely what I want/config as easily as I want. |
| 21:01.46 | Zhinjio | and before you say it, I know: Write my own. |
| 21:01.50 | Zhinjio | but ugh. |
| 21:03.08 | *** join/#wowuidev rapmoc- (rapmoc@it-funzocker.com) |
| 21:03.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Olison_ (olison@fukdruidsgrr.org) |
| 21:03.19 | *** join/#wowuidev phyber_ (phyber@irssi.co.uk) |
| 21:03.32 | *** join/#wowuidev bryno_ (~bryno@cpe-67-11-189-252.satx.res.rr.com) |
| 21:04.54 | *** part/#wowuidev Thaoky (Thaoky@27.218-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 21:05.13 | Kraps | http://theinstance.net/2010/09/the-instance-201-mixed-martial-sippy-cup-parasailin%e2%80%99/ the last 2 minutes of this episode have an epic guitar-shredding version of the taver theme but i can find it anywhere else on the net :/ |
| 21:05.29 | Kraps | tavern* |
| 21:05.32 | foxlit | Making buffs protected seems like a big mistake |
| 21:06.30 | foxlit | Seems like we'll be able to detect procs, at least while soloing. |
| 21:06.38 | zenzelezz | buffs protected? |
| 21:06.49 | foxlit | zenzelezz: they procted CancelUnitBuff or something |
| 21:07.34 | foxlit | which in turn required a secure template for buffs |
| 21:08.17 | haste | it's only the canceling that's protected |
| 21:08.27 | foxlit | haste: follow me here :) |
| 21:08.57 | foxlit | so there'll actually be protected frames being hidden/shown in response to buff events |
| 21:09.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen (~Kevin@149-169-140-130.nat.asu.edu) |
| 21:11.02 | foxlit | and you can determine the visibility of those from RE land |
| 21:12.01 | foxlit | Does that sequence of conclusions make sense? |
| 21:13.52 | *** join/#wowuidev a-stray-cat (~stray@c-76-20-13-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 21:14.00 | zenzelezz | for someone not very familiar with secure template stuff, I don't quite see what you're getting at |
| 21:14.15 | EthanCentaurai | tl;dr, Blizz broke it |
| 21:14.23 | zenzelezz | I'm guessing I'm missing some intricacy of secure stuff |
| 21:14.37 | EthanCentaurai | there are secure aura headers but they're not done/loaded/whatever |
| 21:14.50 | ParnicWork | i hate the secure nonsense. mostly because blizzard doesn't play by their own rules with them |
| 21:15.09 | zenzelezz | "by the rules"? |
| 21:15.16 | zenzelezz | they're supposed to be the exempt ones |
| 21:15.24 | ParnicWork | there are certain things you can and can't do through the secure nonsense |
| 21:15.33 | alestane | foxlit: If you can find a way to determine anything other than the number of buffs you have, let me know. |
| 21:15.36 | ParnicWork | but since all blizzard code is secure, they can ignore all of it and do whatever they want |
| 21:15.41 | ParnicWork | but third-party coders can't. |
| 21:16.10 | alestane | There's only about two things left that they're doing that can't be duplicated in add-on code. |
| 21:16.33 | foxlit | Nah, I'm only talking about the number of buffs at the moment |
| 21:16.40 | ParnicWork | well we don't want to duplicate - we want to add functionality that doesn't exist in the default UI. otherwise what's the point of mods? |
| 21:16.42 | foxlit | Although that may be enough |
| 21:17.02 | ParnicWork | we can't scale buffs or re-sort them, for example. if i want to make buffs cast by me larger than others, i can't with the new system |
| 21:17.17 | zenzelezz | ParnicWork: we had full access and it created stuff Blizzard didn't like; that's why we're in this situation in the first place |
| 21:17.22 | foxlit | ParnicWork: you're making assumptions that aren't necessarily correct. |
| 21:17.31 | alestane | The bigger consequence is for people who want to interact with various Blizzard elements that were built around being secure, like the raid frames. Most of those disintegrate the moment add-on code tries to interact withthem. |
| 21:17.42 | zenzelezz | and I can't look at your nick and not think "panic work" |
| 21:17.46 | foxlit | alestane: It can probably be made to filter out everything you didn't cast yourself, and if you're a class with some sort of buff-based proc, realizing that you have one more buff than usual is probably enough |
| 21:17.49 | ParnicWork | heh |
| 21:17.56 | alestane | You certainly can, ParnicWork, just not on the same frame that will let you cancel that buff. |
| 21:18.11 | Parnic|Work | yeah i thought that was understood :P |
| 21:18.58 | foxlit | I'm not sure why they opted for this |
| 21:19.14 | foxlit | Rather than the druid forms-like implementation for the buffs they cared about |
| 21:19.16 | zenzelezz | is it looking deliberate; not like something temporary? |
| 21:19.33 | foxlit | Yes, it looks permanent. |
| 21:19.36 | Parnic|Work | the fact that they not only made it secure but also provided a secure header looks permanent |
| 21:19.54 | alestane | Because there are or may arise situations where removing a buff is strategically important. |
| 21:20.18 | foxlit | alestane: that is already the case with druid forms. |
| 21:20.37 | kd3|netbook | ooh, drop bear form while tanking. splat |
| 21:20.40 | alestane | And you probably can find ways to make a buff you cast appear larger than one you didn't, it just won't have a larger clickable area. |
| 21:21.09 | kd3|netbook | we don't really need to click on targets' buffs... there's nothing we can do to them |
| 21:21.29 | alestane | I wrote the header because it was either that or third-party addons wouldn't be able to display cancelable dynamic buff frames at all. |
| 21:21.43 | kd3|netbook | oh, for our buff display |
| 21:22.21 | kd3|netbook | pokes ct_buffs |
| 21:23.00 | Cide | CT_BUFFS FTW |
| 21:23.26 | kd3|netbook | was wondering if you were going to react to that |
| 21:23.33 | Cide | of course. |
| 21:23.45 | alestane | So if you don't like the header, that was your alternative...and if we conclusively prove that buff count is too dangerous a piece of information, it'll probably go away and you'll be reduced to displaying buffs only (however you want, of course), or making buttons that cancel a specific buff by name. |
| 21:24.19 | foxlit | You're responding to the wrong question, I guess. |
| 21:24.23 | Parnic|Work | i don't dislike the header. i dislike that they chose to protect the only function we have for canceling buffs :) |
| 21:24.33 | alestane | Because that was what they wanted to do. |
| 21:24.38 | kd3|netbook | yay. next up to be asked probing personal questions |
| 21:25.24 | vithos | so you can't right click an addon's buff to cancel it? or just can't automatically cancel buffs without user interaction |
| 21:25.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Ycarene (jporterf@24-116-56-41.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 21:25.41 | Parnic|Work | the latter |
| 21:25.51 | foxlit | vithos: the problem is a hypothetical situation where they'd design an encounter |
| 21:25.54 | foxlit | around you cancelling some buff |
| 21:26.03 | Parnic|Work | not really, foxlit |
| 21:26.11 | foxlit | Even if you require a hardware event, any addon can currently just steal one from your other bindings. |
| 21:26.20 | Parnic|Work | any addon that wants to allow the user to right-click cancel a buff but also wants to tweak other things about how the buffs are displayed is going to be in trouble |
| 21:26.40 | vithos | but you couldn't decide to steal the hardware event during combat and get it done right then |
| 21:26.49 | foxlit | So nothing short of complete you-can't-do-this-from-addon-code lockdown would work |
| 21:27.21 | foxlit | vithos: everyActionButton:HookScript("OnClick", function() if logic then CancelBuff(); end end); |
| 21:28.47 | vithos | does /cancelaura still exist? |
| 21:28.52 | foxlit | Yes. |
| 21:28.57 | vithos | so this is dumb then. |
| 21:29.01 | foxlit | No. |
| 21:29.26 | Kraps | http://kotaku.com/5632871/xbox-live-gamer-suspended-for-living-in-fort-gay |
| 21:29.41 | foxlit | You can't use game-breaking logic and /cancelaura at the same time. |
| 21:30.02 | cbreak | microsoft hates gay people? |
| 21:30.08 | zenzelezz | Kraps: I pity the representative(s) who made that call; they're bound to get to hear this for a while |
| 21:30.12 | cbreak | aren't we lucky that there's still apple. |
| 21:30.18 | cbreak | or steam, I guess in this case. |
| 21:30.58 | vithos | i guess i just can't imagine them actually using buff canceling as a fight mechanic |
| 21:31.42 | *** join/#wowuidev robokitty (~roboe@50A2E6C0.flatrate.dk) |
| 21:31.55 | zenzelezz | I have no problem picturing that |
| 21:32.03 | foxlit | They already use timed dispelling as a fight mechanic |
| 21:32.23 | foxlit | Letting you cancel things would allow the DPS to have the same... fun. |
| 21:32.31 | *** join/#wowuidev TC-Work (~chatzilla@c-064-186-233-091.oc1.redwire.net) |
| 21:32.39 | vithos | like oops i accidentally clicked off my flask? |
| 21:32.53 | Parnic|Work | what about a mage who ice blocks mid-fight to avoid some damage/debuff and wants to end it early to keep fighting? |
| 21:33.05 | Parnic|Work | that's something i do regularly on my mage |
| 21:33.11 | foxlit | Parnic|Work: note that you can press the iceblock button again to toggle it |
| 21:33.42 | Parnic|Work | well i didn't know that, but still...i'm saying that there are situations in which cancellation of buffs mid-fight are desirable |
| 21:33.57 | zenzelezz | and that's still fully possible |
| 21:33.58 | foxlit | And they'll still exist. |
| 21:34.16 | foxlit | Unless, apparently, they allow you to do something nasty, in which case, say hello to default self-buff frames :) |
| 21:34.20 | Parnic|Work | but only if you don't want to do any other cool things with the buffs |
| 21:34.27 | foxlit | Which are actually decent -- turn on buff consolidation and you can live with them. |
| 21:35.15 | zenzelezz | people feel too strongly about the relative freedom of the WoW UI. We're lucky they bother to let us customise it at all |
| 21:35.41 | Parnic|Work | it's still okay to criticise the decisions they've made and request that they do things that are friendlier to add-on devs |
| 21:35.49 | vithos | they're lucky it gives us a reason to play this terrible game :P |
| 21:37.31 | alestane | You only play WoW to customize the UI? |
| 21:37.41 | alestane | I can think of better uses for $15. |
| 21:39.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Diao (vince@adsl-76-254-23-136.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:39.27 | Dashkal | I wouldn't play if not for the customizibility. The enhancements to my UI contribute greatly to my enjoyment of the game. |
| 21:40.43 | alestane | Well, right, it lets you remove obstacles to enjoying the game. That's the point. But if being able to customize the UI is the only reason you want to play, become a graphic designer or something. |
| 21:41.35 | Dashkal | I'm a web developer by day. Ironic given I've always hated UI design, but there you go. |
| 21:42.29 | Dashkal | sighs |
| 21:42.32 | Dashkal | I hate PHP. |
| 21:42.38 | alestane | There are enough points about the default UI that would annoy me if I couldn't personalize them. (Not sure if it's enough to stop enjoying the game.) |
| 21:42.38 | Dashkal | Bug caused by a case mismatch |
| 21:43.48 | Xyphoid | UI programming is pretty fun because you can get something immediately useful done in a short period of time |
| 21:43.53 | Xyphoid | compared to my day job programming heh |
| 21:44.05 | Dashkal | I like the meaty systems stuff. |
| 21:44.12 | Dashkal | Probably why I was attracted to haskell. |
| 21:44.14 | foxlit | alestane: if you're looking for features to implement, I'd still like to be able to tell between a button being held down for a long time, or being tapped briefly. |
| 21:44.30 | Dashkal | not systems as in kernel internals or the like. Algorithms. Data manipulation. That kind of thing. |
| 21:45.02 | alestane | I keep making the proposal, foxlit, but making it unexploitable requires C support and I haven't been able to convince them it's safe /worth the effort. |
| 21:46.21 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (~nuohep@89.222.156.36) |
| 21:47.03 | *** part/#wowuidev nuoHep (~nuohep@89.222.156.36) |
| 21:48.34 | Adys | anyone good with js? |
| 21:48.53 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (~nuohep@89.222.156.36) |
| 21:48.53 | Cidan | Ya |
| 21:48.55 | Cidan | what's up? |
| 21:48.58 | Adys | Cidan: http://dpaste.com/240683/ |
| 21:49.13 | Adys | how would i rewrite this so that I don't need line 3? |
| 21:50.03 | Adys | my minifier is having issues with regex literals |
| 21:50.07 | cbreak | is that a trick question? that si fairly easy |
| 21:50.20 | cbreak | hmm... |
| 21:50.24 | cbreak | or maybe not |
| 21:50.30 | Adys | what i meant was. how would i rewrite it so i dont need to assign a regex literal to a var |
| 21:50.31 | cbreak | what is the syntax of while in this language? |
| 21:50.43 | Adys | idk. |
| 21:50.57 | Cide | /\s/.test(str.charAt(--i)) ? |
| 21:51.37 | Adys | ah |
| 21:51.37 | Adys | k |
| 21:51.45 | alestane | Foxlit: My proposal involved being able to register an "idle driver" that would call a snippet after a certain amount of time, provided you didn't make any input. You could choose when you registered it whether user input (whether directed at it or not) would end it early, or reset it from the beginning; either way it wouldn't know how long it had been. |
| 21:51.54 | Adys | lets see |
| 21:53.35 | foxlit | Hm, that's a bit more general. |
| 21:54.01 | foxlit | What would constitute input? |
| 21:54.44 | alestane | Any binding or click. |
| 21:54.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Kody- (~nope@70-36-245-200.dsl.static.sonic.net) |
| 21:54.57 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Kody-] by ChanServ |
| 21:54.58 | alestane | Any hardware event, basically. |
| 21:55.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~callahan@74-141-246-74.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 21:58.28 | alestane | In your case, you could register an idle driver when a button was pushed down, and if they didn't release the button, it would run to completion. |
| 21:58.28 | foxlit | Mm. The problem you run into, of course, is that I could register a load of those drivers with varying durations |
| 21:59.21 | alestane | But it shouldn't be a very reliable timer in combat, because as soon as you hit anything, they lose track or get desynced. |
| 21:59.53 | foxlit | I'm afraid it's worse than that |
| 22:00.09 | alestane | But if you want some functionality like that, you need a way to demonstrate that it can't be abused. |
| 22:00.18 | foxlit | Can't prove a negative |
| 22:00.44 | alestane | I haven't come up with a definitive abuse case, but I can't confidently display security, wither. |
| 22:00.47 | alestane | either* |
| 22:00.48 | foxlit | But the problem with your pitch is that I could register a bunch of timers 1 frame apart |
| 22:01.09 | alestane | Well, since the forms of abuse are fairly well-defined, you can come close to proving a negative. |
| 22:01.10 | foxlit | When one runs, I can store a variable within RE stating that it has run |
| 22:01.47 | foxlit | I'll know when they reset by getting an out-of-sequence trigger. |
| 22:03.38 | alestane | Or I could try and solve your problem specifically, and shoot for a function that would return the time between specific events, like the press and release of a given key. But it's too narrow in application, and similarly hard to prove safe. |
| 22:03.39 | foxlit | Basically, "It's been 0.01s" "It's been 0.02s"... "It's been 1s" (hardware event) "It's been 0.01s" (Ha, someone clicked something, but the proper time is still somewhere close to 1 + 0.01!) |
| 22:04.11 | alestane | Because the only answer I've developed to exploits like that is a minimum duration. |
| 22:06.37 | alestane | And having to choose an arbitrary figure (like "no timers shorter than a half second" strikes me as a bad sign. |
| 22:08.15 | foxlit | I'm not sure what broader applications are appropriate here -- did other people come up with interesting things to do with idle timers? |
| 22:08.52 | alestane | Well, what I've always wanted it for is Demonomicon. |
| 22:09.07 | alestane | Hit a key, menu pops up. If menu goes unused too long, it hides. |
| 22:09.47 | alestane | I don't have a problem with the menu also hiding if you click something else. |
| 22:10.04 | Lunessa | As it is now, people are doing that sort of thing with OnEnter and OnLeave, right? |
| 22:10.16 | foxlit | Yes, forcing mouse interaction |
| 22:10.25 | foxlit | But that doesn't work when you're doing bindings :/ |
| 22:10.46 | alestane | Right, Lunessa, I can't do that unless they must click a button in the same screen area as the desired menu. |
| 22:10.58 | alestane | So instead I just have to leave the menu open until they close it or use it. |
| 22:11.01 | *** part/#wowuidev Sixen (~Kevin@149-169-140-130.nat.asu.edu) |
| 22:11.31 | Lunessa | Yeah, I'd prefer key presses for that behavior too. But yeah. |
| 22:12.10 | alestane | Unless I can enable it without enabling accurate secure timers, no go. |
| 22:12.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Silker (~ponies@5e07faa8.bb.sky.com) |
| 22:12.33 | Lunessa | I'm wondering how useful (for addon programming) the new pop-up menu buttons are that they're using for mages and warlocks. |
| 22:12.48 | Kraps | http://gizmodo.com/5632969/what-is-google-instant |
| 22:12.57 | alestane | I wrote the ability to activate them into SecureActionButtonTemplate when I found out about them. |
| 22:13.07 | alestane | They're a new action type. |
| 22:13.24 | myrkraverk | is it possible to cast different spells with the action button attributes depending on my pet (demon) I have? [not with macros that is] |
| 22:13.24 | alestane | They're stored in the action slot as "flyout", flyoutID. |
| 22:13.28 | Lunessa | I forsee myself making use of them for other things. |
| 22:13.45 | alestane | If you use a state driver, myrkraverk. |
| 22:14.00 | Lunessa | Quest items, teleport items, mounts, food, drink, potions ... |
| 22:14.14 | alestane | We can't populate our own yet AFAIK. |
| 22:14.57 | myrkraverk | Ok, let me take a quick look at how I might do that. |
| 22:15.11 | alestane | It also gets way easier in Cata. |
| 22:16.17 | myrkraverk | So, right now, I cat make a state driver and change the spell in the "spell" attribute? |
| 22:16.29 | myrkraverk | *can |
| 22:16.31 | alestane | Not directly. |
| 22:16.54 | foxlit | depends on whether the warlock demons have associated pet type conditionals |
| 22:17.15 | myrkraverk | in macros I can do [pet:<type>] or [pet:<name>] |
| 22:17.31 | myrkraverk | So I can do the same with state drivers |
| 22:17.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (~Lopeppepp@cpe-67-252-44-53.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 22:17.45 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 22:17.45 | foxlit | So yes, you can. |
| 22:17.52 | alestane | In Cata, you can make an attribute driver that just sets the spell attribute. On live, you have to register a driver that sets some attribute on a frame like "state-pet", and the frame has to inherit from SecureHandlerStateTemplate so that it can run a snippet in response to set the spell attribute. |
| 22:18.06 | alestane | Yes, state drivers use the same conditions that macros do. |
| 22:18.24 | myrkraverk | alestane, rigt. |
| 22:18.25 | Lunessa | alestane: I haven't looked at it, but that would be a nice thing - if we could. |
| 22:18.38 | alestane | What would be, Lunessa? |
| 22:18.50 | alestane | Oh, flyouts. |
| 22:18.54 | Lunessa | Populating flyouts |
| 22:18.56 | myrkraverk | Also, I wanted to ask since we're talking about Cata: Is there going to be "guardian" unit id for the warlock guardian? |
| 22:19.04 | *** join/#wowuidev cralor (~cralor@c-75-68-70-97.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 22:19.05 | alestane | Never has been. |
| 22:19.13 | alestane | For guardians in general, anyway. |
| 22:19.23 | myrkraverk | So there won't ever be? |
| 22:19.33 | alestane | Seems unlikely. What would you do with it? |
| 22:19.42 | alestane | pouncles Lopeppeppy. |
| 22:20.10 | myrkraverk | I made a little addon to add the pet's target (to the default UI) and I might like to add the guardian and guardian-target for completeness. |
| 22:20.33 | myrkraverk | That's what I was thinking about. |
| 22:20.58 | alestane | Well, your guardian is basically supposed to focus-fire the things you're killing. |
| 22:21.00 | foxlit | I think the general situation is that your guardian should never target anything other than your own target |
| 22:21.18 | alestane | The description says it will go after targets with your banes on them. |
| 22:21.48 | myrkraverk | Well, the doomguard attacks what I have the bane on (or is supposed to) which may not be my current target. |
| 22:21.57 | myrkraverk | Exactly. |
| 22:22.43 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 22:22.53 | myrkraverk | For the record, I do have cata beta access, but I don't play it much. I'm only testing some warlock things (and leave feedback) |
| 22:23.26 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3|netbook (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 22:23.35 | myrkraverk | I don't recall, but I think some patches ago both the infernal and doomguard were completely passive. |
| 22:26.24 | myrkraverk | In any case, thanks for replying about spell changes on demons. Good night. |
| 22:28.35 | Adys | Cide |
| 22:31.43 | foxlit | alestane: thinking about it a bit more, I don't think your situation is solvable. |
| 22:32.12 | Cide | Adys |
| 22:32.17 | Adys | bathe in my awesomeness |
| 22:32.21 | Adys | [23:27:05] <@Adys> I once casted a boolean with more exclamation marks than a 13 year old on counterstrike |
| 22:32.36 | Cide | y u do dat? |
| 22:32.43 | Adys | CUZ! |
| 22:32.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (amarande@68-191-37-155.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 22:33.12 | Amarande | so ... 1) does the announcement of the zalazane event mean that 4.0 is coming sooner than some of us thought? |
| 22:33.19 | Lunessa | Adys: You should say, "CUZ, Bitches!!! |
| 22:33.22 | foxlit | Perhaps if you restrict the /number/ of such idle timers to 1 at a time and require them to be started from hardware events, it might be okay -- that removes granularity, but it basically means that things are rather limited if multiple addons want to use this trick |
| 22:33.22 | Amarande | and 2) have Jewelcrafting and Enchanting been cata-fied yet? |
| 22:33.38 | Adys | jwc has, enchanting hasnt |
| 22:33.44 | Adys | and your first question is irrelevant |
| 22:33.47 | Amarande | Adys: any good linky for JC? |
| 22:34.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Tinyboom (~nahh@c91FD653E.dhcp.bluecom.no) |
| 22:34.28 | Adys | Amarande: http://db.mmo-champion.com/items/3/?level__gt=80 |
| 22:34.56 | Alram | also adys do you still track builds |
| 22:34.58 | Alram | or patches |
| 22:35.05 | Adys | "track"? |
| 22:35.06 | Alram | aka "Added in Cataclysm" |
| 22:35.11 | Adys | no |
| 22:35.13 | Alram | As a search filter or something |
| 22:35.18 | Alram | Okies |
| 22:36.04 | foxlit | Sort of like "Hey, I'm the main object of the user's attention for the next X seconds, becaue he interacted with me. If someone else usurps my status, or if X seconds expire, tell me." |
| 22:36.18 | Amarande | ooh, SWEET. |
| 22:36.29 | Amarande | 1) we're told hit rating requirements will scale with tier, so there will always be a need for hit rating |
| 22:36.32 | Amarande | 2) hit rating is now blue. |
| 22:36.41 | Amarande | *no more "blue sockets always suck for DPS"* |
| 22:36.53 | Spejnar | I LOVE the hit rating change <3 |
| 22:37.05 | Spejnar | and the dungeon/heroic difficulty |
| 22:37.13 | Spejnar | no more one day clear in icc25 gear |
| 22:37.13 | Spejnar | woho |
| 22:37.35 | Amarande | Adys: I was more wondering what's happening to legacy gems and enchants still, though. :) |
| 22:37.51 | Adys | as in? |
| 22:37.56 | Adys | also new gems are getting an ilvl requirement |
| 22:37.58 | Amarande | Spejnar: as long as it doesn't go back to raiders expecting you to be home almost every night every week :| |
| 22:38.00 | Adys | i havent added that yet |
| 22:38.12 | Amarande | Adys: as in ones that gave bonuses to stats that aren't normally on gear anymore |
| 22:38.16 | Spejnar | Amarande: well that really has nothing to do with this |
| 22:38.28 | Amarande | are they being left in as such, changed to alternate stats or disappearing entirely with currently cut ones turning into greys? |
| 22:38.54 | Adys | so far, left as such |
| 22:38.55 | Spejnar | think they will change that while changing gear |
| 22:39.04 | Spejnar | as arp into agi/crit/haste/ap or something |
| 22:39.05 | Adys | they'll prolly be replaced with appropriate stats |
| 22:39.08 | Xyphoid | well, you have a precedent with enchants - multiple recipes with different names that do the same thing |
| 22:39.12 | Adys | Amarande: and they wont be turning into greys ... |
| 22:39.16 | Spejnar | just give me agi instead of arp, god damn I would have like ... al ot |
| 22:39.29 | Amarande | "sparkling hydraulic pump" lowtf? |
| 22:39.39 | Adys | engineering gems |
| 22:39.39 | Xyphoid | so you might just end up with 5 varieties of str gem |
| 22:39.43 | Spejnar | head gem |
| 22:39.51 | Spejnar | two unique gems for engi |
| 22:39.59 | Spejnar | one meta, one normal |
| 22:40.56 | Amarande | so basically Eng/JC is going to be the "the shit" combo for Cata then, like BS/JC or Ench/JC is now? |
| 22:41.23 | foxlit | Why is the King of Gnomes using a Goblin Dragon Gun? |
| 22:41.32 | Xyphoid | my psychic powers tell me it's going to be all about mining/tailoring |
| 22:41.42 | Spejnar | well if you calculate it, most decent combos give about the same benefit |
| 22:41.56 | Amarande | except for raids that grouse at people for taking herbalism, anyway |
| 22:41.59 | Amarande | or casters with mining |
| 22:42.03 | foxlit | I thought they balanced all crafting professions to give the same bonus |
| 22:42.03 | Adys | Amarande: do you realize that a certain combo being "the shit" is the opposite of what blizz is going for? |
| 22:42.05 | Spejnar | stamina ftw, woooo |
| 22:42.16 | Amarande | Adys: the best laid plans of mice and men? |
| 22:42.35 | Amarande | no matter how many times they try to balance profession bonuses, there's always one or two specific combos that are regarded as superior for each class anyway :) |
| 22:42.35 | Xyphoid | anyway, engineering is significantly better than the other profs right now |
| 22:42.45 | Xyphoid | because rocket boots are better than a stat bonus |
| 22:42.55 | Spejnar | I love my rocket boots <3 |
| 22:43.32 | Amarande | or as Mat Cauthon once said ... "Everything always changes. The best plan lasts until the first arrow leaves the bow." |
| 22:43.39 | Adys | Amarande: of course |
| 22:43.41 | Adys | but erm |
| 22:43.49 | Adys | if someone could TELL in advance |
| 22:43.56 | Adys | you might imagine that blizz would fix it ... |
| 22:44.19 | kd3|netbook | makes no judgments about cata-level professions until they're all actually implemented |
| 22:44.39 | jnwhiteh | Amarande: <3 |
| 22:47.39 | Lopeppeppy | applauds kd3! |
| 22:49.08 | *** join/#wowuidev shifuimam (~shifuimam@polatrite.com) |
| 22:49.25 | Amarande | Heya Peppy :) |
| 22:50.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Natch (~natch@c-35cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 22:50.12 | kd3|netbook | yay |
| 22:50.15 | kd3|netbook | is applauded |
| 22:51.15 | *** part/#wowuidev Natch (~natch@c-35cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 22:51.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Natch (~natch@c-35cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 22:51.24 | Lopeppeppy | heya, Amarande! |
| 22:51.28 | Amarande | how's you? |
| 22:51.41 | Lopeppeppy | Cleanin' the house. BORED is bored! |
| 22:53.52 | Dashkal | kd3: How dare you take a reasonable approach? |
| 22:54.28 | Lopeppeppy | I know, right? |
| 22:54.30 | kd3|netbook | because I don't have the capacity to handle that stress atm. there's more important stressors right now |
| 22:54.46 | kd3|netbook | like trying to not fall asleep in database |
| 22:55.20 | *** join/#wowuidev batbot (~batbot@batbytes.com) |
| 22:56.07 | *** part/#wowuidev Natch (~natch@c-35cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 22:56.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Natch| (~natch@c-35cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 22:58.26 | *** join/#wowuidev malreth_ (~triti@wireless-128-62-176-107.public.utexas.edu) |
| 22:59.19 | Lopeppeppy | Why hello thar, malreth! |
| 22:59.50 | Amarande | Adys: regarding those ilvl requirements |
| 23:00.07 | Adys | 285 for lowest green gems |
| 23:00.09 | Adys | nothing higher yet |
| 23:00.14 | Amarande | are we generally going to get to use Cata enchants/epic/rare gems at the heroic level or will we have to get raid gear before we can use them? |
| 23:00.31 | Adys | 285 is the lowest ilvl of all greens in cata |
| 23:00.40 | Adys | (it's also 1 lvl higher than shadowmourne. ownt.) |
| 23:00.54 | Amarande | and is 300 the heroic blues, like 200 was for LK? |
| 23:01.11 | kd3|netbook | regular instance blues are 333 iirc |
| 23:01.19 | kd3|netbook | 's gotten quest rewards at 303? 308? |
| 23:01.29 | Amarande | How do 285 greens compare to 251/264 epics? |
| 23:01.38 | foxlit | 200 is heroic epics |
| 23:01.45 | foxlit | or nax10 epics |
| 23:01.52 | Amarande | foxlit: heroic blues were 200, too |
| 23:01.53 | kd3|netbook | roughly equivalent, just without sockets |
| 23:01.56 | Amarande | 187 was regular |
| 23:02.48 | foxlit | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk3qkQROb_k << ! |
| 23:02.49 | Amarande | so basically, I'll be replacing my gear in deepholm/uldum, then. |
| 23:02.54 | kd3|netbook | as soon as you hit deepholm rewards start being unambiguous upgrades |
| 23:03.04 | foxlit | I think that beats the Vista SP1 video |
| 23:03.28 | Amarande | and I'm going to be REAL glad to be maining MDPS, I imagine, with the tier scaling |
| 23:03.43 | Adys | Amarande: ive replaced most of my 251-267 epics by 29x greens |
| 23:03.45 | Amarande | since the hit scaling for physicals looks a HELL of a lot less daunting than for casters |
| 23:04.02 | A-KO | wow foxlit |
| 23:04.02 | A-KO | wow |
| 23:04.10 | foxlit | A-KO: yes. |
| 23:04.13 | foxlit | wow. |
| 23:04.35 | foxlit | Where did they find those people? |
| 23:04.38 | foxlit | Who wrote this stuff? |
| 23:04.54 | *** join/#wowuidev felipe` (~felipe@my.nada.kth.se) |
| 23:05.08 | A-KO | I don't even know what to think of it yet...... |
| 23:05.14 | A-KO | I'm still kind of in the "WTF?" state of mind |
| 23:05.42 | foxlit | Also, that Duke is cute. |
| 23:05.55 | foxlit | Missed him on the first play-through |
| 23:06.55 | Adys | foxlit: wow. |
| 23:07.17 | Amarande | yes, indeed, I have a feeling we're going to be stuck with blue gems a LOT on casters progressing through tiers :| |
| 23:07.23 | Amarande | I'm glad I ditched the caster gig when I made my DK |
| 23:07.42 | Amarande | for each additional boss level, that's another ELEVEN PERCENT worth of hit rating you need to find on a caster |
| 23:07.48 | Amarande | while it's gonna be what, 2%, 3%? for melee? |
| 23:08.06 | Amarande | since it looks like the chance to miss drops a lot more slowly with level difference for melee than it does for casters |
| 23:08.21 | Amarande | (which also explains why stupid mobs in stratholme still hit me with melee at 80 even though casters can barely hit :P) |
| 23:08.22 | foxlit | Just means caster gear will have hit |
| 23:09.08 | foxlit | Adys: agreed. |
| 23:12.02 | Dashkal | foxlit: Thanks... *heads off to find some brain bleach* |
| 23:12.57 | Amarande | hands Dashkal a bottle of everclear |
| 23:13.12 | Dashkal | Amarande: Danke |
| 23:13.41 | Dashkal | Hopefully they'll do something sane like adjusting the caster hit formula for bosses. |
| 23:13.59 | kd3|netbook | 17%, whee |
| 23:14.17 | Dashkal | I'm planning on leveling a mage. Having to find 30+% of extra hit because it's tier 3 of cata would suck |
| 23:16.43 | A-KO | nice |
| 23:16.48 | A-KO | acta mostly shot down in .EU |
| 23:16.49 | A-KO | win |
| 23:17.04 | Amarande | kd3: 17% as it is now is fine |
| 23:17.16 | Amarande | the problem is that the current caster hit formula is an extra *11%* miss per level above that |
| 23:17.32 | Amarande | whereas for physical character's it's a paltry 2 or 3% or so |
| 23:17.51 | Dagmar | A-Ko: Being that it's mostly being negotiated in secret so that only goverment officials and _well-connected monopolists_ have any input, I don't think anyone should accept it |
| 23:19.38 | Amarande | I wonder what made the government officials think that's a good idea. |
| 23:19.40 | Lunessa | foxlit: That video make my brain bleed |
| 23:19.49 | Dagmar | We do *need* to do something about international piracy, but handing control of everything to a bunch of entrenched monopolies is definitely _not_ it. |
| 23:19.55 | Amarande | Trying to promote monopolies so that the economy has *at least a few* stable big businesses to rebuild the economy from after everything finishes tumbling? :P |
| 23:20.03 | Amarande | That's about the only *good* reason for that sort of thing I can think of. |
| 23:20.20 | Dagmar | Big business doesn't rebuild anything they don't own |
| 23:20.33 | Dagmar | The only thing that sort of attempt will create are the Corporate States of America |
| 23:20.40 | Amarande | Yeah, but ... |
| 23:20.46 | Amarande | Okay, the answer to that is "we're fucked either way" I think :| |
| 23:20.56 | Dagmar | Nope. |
| 23:21.06 | Amarande | if we defend the monopolies at least we have some big businesses to be an economic backbone, but we'll head towards an Aliens like world in the next few centuries. |
| 23:21.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Sliker[Bed] (~ponies@5e07faa8.bb.sky.com) |
| 23:21.13 | Amarande | or a RE like world. |
| 23:21.21 | Dagmar | They need to hold those discussions in the _open_ so that more than just say, Sony, can give feedback |
| 23:21.22 | Amarande | Good old Weyland-Yutani and Umbrella. |
| 23:21.49 | Amarande | If we say "screw the big businesses", on the other hand, they crumble like the others as things continue to tumble ... |
| 23:21.58 | Dagmar | Why should they be exempt? |
| 23:22.15 | Dagmar | They're not sources of innovation. |
| 23:22.16 | Amarande | and then we're still fucked, for want of enough concentration of resources in single locations to be able to rebuild an economy that can support 300+ million people. |
| 23:22.32 | Amarande | which means it seems like either we hand it over to the big businesses and get dystopia (a world we don't WANT to live in) |
| 23:22.39 | Parnic|Work | is there any sort of Broker2Minimap-type addon or is LDB capable of displaying a minimap icon on its own? |
| 23:23.01 | Dagmar | Amarande: Or we allow smaller, more nimble mechanisms a fair chance |
| 23:23.04 | Amarande | or we let *everything* crumble and then can't build anything substantial enough fast enough and everyone dies of starvation, followed by disease when we don't have the infrastructure to keep things clean (a world we don't GET to live in). |
| 23:23.27 | Dagmar | There's a third option, man |
| 23:23.46 | Dagmar | It's definitely not just "big businesses" or "extinction" |
| 23:24.44 | Lunessa | I vote for radical change in which people are responsible for themselves. |
| 23:25.22 | Amarande | Lunessa: fine enough, except for the complexity of modern existence |
| 23:25.34 | Amarande | you mean, I'm assuming, that we should know every process needed to sustain our lives as we know it |
| 23:25.35 | Dagmar | Amarande: Big businesses don't move quickly |
| 23:25.48 | Dagmar | They even work really hard at retarding each other's development. |
| 23:25.58 | Dagmar | Just look at what went down with TiVo entering the marketplace. |
| 23:26.07 | Amarande | with how many processes those ARE, we could easily get bogged down so much into necessity that it's as bad as the dystopia because we don't have the time and resources remaining afterwards to *enjoy* life |
| 23:26.08 | Lunessa | Amarande: No, I mean that you don't get to have someone else be required to carry you through life. |
| 23:26.27 | Dagmar | They got sued literally day and night because they moved quickly into a new niche that they created, and the only thing the monopolists did was send laywers basically saying "We want a cut" |
| 23:26.47 | Amarande | Lunessa: but that's life in general. if we consider a WoW raid metaphor, that's basically saying everyone should have to simultaneously tank, heal, and DPS. :) |
| 23:26.59 | Amarande | Which basically would mean only druids and paladins would get to live. :) |
| 23:27.05 | Lunessa | Or form partnerships to accomplish things. |
| 23:27.13 | Xyphoid | i love paying taxes |
| 23:27.16 | alestane | No, but if they want someone else to take over their share of a role, they have to contribute. |
| 23:27.26 | Lunessa | alestane: Exactly |
| 23:27.59 | Lunessa | Ok, I'm out of here. See you guys later. |
| 23:28.04 | Amarande | Night Lunessa |
| 23:28.52 | Amarande | Dagmar: on the other hand, small businesses are far more easily wiped out by temporary economic downturns that big businesses mostly shrug off unless they were in trouble already to begin with |
| 23:29.16 | alestane | I am not opposed to the basic notion of *some* sort of safety net, but I do think that an organization like the government should be well within its rights to say "Okay, we've been paying your living for six months, and we're maintaining a highway in your area. Get your ass over there." |
| 23:29.22 | Amarande | So basically, there's the rub. |
| 23:29.27 | Dagmar | Amarande: That doesn't mean they're always wiped out |
| 23:29.37 | Dagmar | ...nor does it mean that _all_ small buisnesses get wiped out |
| 23:29.52 | Dagmar | The effective ones with a working financial model generally survive. |
| 23:30.11 | Amarande | I wonder if we're, eventually, going to have to accept that we're going to have to shed 80-100 million people from the US population, probably in ways that any moral and ethical standard would consider crushingly cruel and evil, in order for the country to survive long term :| |
| 23:30.16 | foxlit | alestane: problematically thin line |
| 23:30.37 | Amarande | that, or completely abandon the American premise of equality and perhaps even condition people into a *caste* system |
| 23:30.39 | foxlit | "Okay, we've been paying for your living, and we have a uranium mine in your area. Get your ass down there!" |
| 23:30.55 | Dagmar | Amarande: That we already have |
| 23:31.04 | Amarande | Dagmar: not a class system. a caste system. |
| 23:31.25 | Dagmar | It might as well be a caste system. There's less potential for vertical mobility in the US than anywhere else in the world. |
| 23:31.30 | Amarande | where subsets of the population will be raised from the very get go that they're workers, only good as workers, and that it would be *BAD* for them to even THINK of becoming anything higher than workers. |
| 23:31.54 | Amarande | that's the basic difference between class and caste systems, in the latter you condition people that even to *desire* vertical mobility is an offense. |
| 23:31.55 | Lopeppeppy | Sure, Big Brother, no problem! |
| 23:32.02 | Amarande | in the former, that's just how it pans out. |
| 23:32.23 | Amarande | the former, however, can never work for any long run because eventually the lower classes get pissed off enough to produce revolution |
| 23:32.40 | Dagmar | North America's never seen any of those |
| 23:32.50 | Amarande | which is why you'd end up having to have the raised from childhood caste system, so the lower classes don't even want to improve their standing |
| 23:33.01 | Amarande | because once they do want to, especially given the numbers? you're screwed. |
| 23:33.04 | alestane | Change is coming. But as Dagmar alludes, that tends to support smaller organizations in the long run. Not every individual small organization, but as an overall market element. |
| 23:34.11 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI|work (~KarlKFI|w@adcom005v.adcom.uci.edu) |
| 23:34.25 | Amarande | alestane: yes, a lot of people will agree that change is coming ... they have it in their pockets now instead of bills :) |
| 23:34.28 | alestane | Big organizations weather short-term crises more easily, but don't deal well with sea-changes. |
| 23:34.28 | Amarande | heh |
| 23:34.44 | alestane | Polaroid. |
| 23:35.01 | Jerub | 09:30 < Amarande> that, or completely abandon the American premise of equality and perhaps even condition people into a *caste* system |
| 23:35.19 | Jerub | Amarande: uh, you have had a caste/class system for such a long time, were you unaware of that? |
| 23:35.39 | alestane | Once again...class != caste. |
| 23:35.44 | Legorol | sorry to insert an off-topic question: can anyone tell me, or link to an article that talks about, why did flash seem to overtake java applets for client-side dynamic web content? |
| 23:36.02 | Legorol | i realise it's not a simple question.. it's just something i was wondering about, in broad terms |
| 23:36.05 | Amarande | Jerub: I believe I explained the difference between the paradigms I was speaking of |
| 23:36.05 | alestane | Class is a practical division...cate is institutionalized. |
| 23:36.06 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (~smcn@c-174-52-104-121.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 23:36.10 | Xinhuan | less resource intensive perhaps? |
| 23:36.12 | Amarande | yeah, what alestane said. |
| 23:36.19 | Legorol | does flash have technical advantages over java? or is it marketing? branding? dumb luck? |
| 23:36.21 | Jerub | Legorol: java applets required a programmer. flash applets required a designer. |
| 23:36.28 | alestane | Legorol: My first impression is that Flash reached a critical stability point faster. |
| 23:36.29 | foxlit | I'd be betting on developer tools and focus |
| 23:36.30 | Xyphoid | yeah, flash had better design tools |
| 23:36.34 | ScytheBlade1 | http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=cubic+light+year+of+butter |
| 23:36.40 | Jerub | Legorol: the programming was secondary to the design. in java applets the reverse was true. |
| 23:36.44 | foxlit | Everything runs java applets, but they're more application-oriented |
| 23:36.50 | foxlit | Flash had Graphics |
| 23:36.51 | alestane | And yes, tools probably had quite a bit to do with it. |
| 23:36.57 | Legorol | interesting |
| 23:37.02 | Amarande | it's too bad that starvation is such a particularly painful way to go, or it would be easier for society to let things evolve as needed during times in which large numbers of people may simply have to be let go |
| 23:37.16 | Amarande | however, given the pain of starvation, it's hard to get people to accept a live and let die philosophy. |
| 23:37.21 | Legorol | so if Sun worked on good design tools, things would've been different potentially? |
| 23:37.56 | A-KO | Amarande: It would be a little more fair if we had a system in which allowed a little more free-for-all, if we were to go down that route. Unfortunately, the legal system is very one-sided. Protecting the haves, screwing the have-nots. |
| 23:37.57 | A-KO | :P |
| 23:38.04 | Legorol | or is it just a case of flash being more about interactive graphics, essentially? |
| 23:38.17 | alestane | Possibly, Legorol, but my earliest memories of Java are the days when Netscape's status bar would announce "Starting Java" and you'd have to start praying. |
| 23:38.23 | A-KO | Javs sucks |
| 23:38.25 | A-KO | Java* |
| 23:38.27 | A-KO | stop using it |
| 23:38.28 | A-KO | please |
| 23:38.38 | Legorol | A-KO, wtf? who was talking about using Java |
| 23:38.45 | foxlit | hits A-KO with another round of Lady Java. |
| 23:38.47 | alestane | Actually, the legal system itself spends a great deal of time trying to protect the have-nots. |
| 23:38.50 | ckknight | down with Java, Legorol |
| 23:38.52 | Xyphoid | flash design tools worked at a higher level, basically |
| 23:39.05 | alestane | It's an uphill battle, I'll grant, but that's actually what it's supposedly for. |
| 23:39.15 | Xyphoid | and also handled animation at a much higher level of abstraction |
| 23:39.22 | Legorol | is there some advantage that Java has? for example, for more complex application, is Java better? or can you generally achieve the same thing in Flash too |
| 23:39.27 | A-KO | alestane: not really, it does a great deal at keeping the have-nots as have-nots, and does nothing for upward mobility of said have-nots. The very fact that we have them and they keep growing is a good measure of that. |
| 23:39.29 | Amarande | A-KO: you're assuming that the legal system would retain integrity during that sort of transitional period |
| 23:39.49 | kd3|netbook | torrent clients in java? bloated, but work. torrent clients in flash? eeeeek |
| 23:39.51 | Xyphoid | writing applets you were rolling your own animation infrastructure - flash from the start was all about vector graphics and keyframes and stuff |
| 23:39.59 | ckknight | Legorol: for browser-based stuff, I'd argue that Silverlight has the nicest APIs right now. Big issue with that is the lack of user support right now |
| 23:40.01 | Amarande | During a transition period in which millions would be allowed to starve for the sake of maintaining the integrity of the society as a whole, however, you would surely see survival violence that would completely overwhelm all legality for a time. |
| 23:40.58 | Xyphoid | i'd like to see anyone justifuy 'letting millions starve for the sake of maintaining the integrity of society as a whole' |
| 23:41.04 | alestane | Rapid upward mobility simply isn't that common, although it's visible when it happens. But the brakes against it, other than things like theft and embezzlement, are economic rather than legal...it's pretty much the definition of capitalism, that to start an enterprise, you need resources. |
| 23:41.05 | A-KO | Amarande: It would be somewhat interesting (or maybe not) to see such a thing happen. But I doubt it will, however, we will get closer to that point (in the US at least). |
| 23:41.23 | Legorol | right, so from what you guys are saying, i understand that Flash was focused on graphics/animation and the likes from the get-go, which tends to be the most important application of applets on websites |
| 23:41.32 | A-KO | alestane: I don't mean rapid upward mobility, I just mean upward mobility in general. |
| 23:41.55 | Legorol | whereas Java was designed as a complete platform, without the tools, which is kinda overkill for browsing i guess |
| 23:42.11 | A-KO | for example, the higher the cost of education, the fewer people that can obtain it. So we resort to loans to get more people to obtain it, but now they're indebted for life (and at this point coming up on indebting their children's lives). Same with housing, everything else. :P |
| 23:42.35 | Legorol | would Java be able to make a comeback if nice design tools were developed for it, or is it too late now? |
| 23:42.36 | foxlit | State-funded, merit-based, partially mandatory education. Problem solved? |
| 23:42.36 | alestane | I work in digital entertainment development, A-KO, and I have some savings. My grandfather was a shoe salesman who lived pretty much hand-to -mouth. |
| 23:43.00 | alestane | Probably not in web development, Legorol. |
| 23:43.11 | foxlit | Having said that, JavaFX exists. |
| 23:43.15 | Shadowed | Java could write code and I would hate it :< |
| 23:43.31 | alestane | I see it used for multi-platform locally-executed application deployment sometimes, Legorol. |
| 23:43.42 | Xyphoid | javafx is kind of a failure as far as i can tell |
| 23:43.51 | Shadowed | Too bad all the Edu sites seem to love using Java alestane |
| 23:43.52 | A-KO | foxlit: Mandatory doesn't necessarily have to be there. Just that we should have diverse options and a cultural structure that encourages that. Right now, we don't. It's really interesting, and really detrimental (I'm speaking from US terms). |
| 23:43.56 | Xyphoid | it was an attempt at pushing into the flash space but it was pretty embarassing as a launch |
| 23:43.57 | Legorol | right alestane |
| 23:44.05 | Shadowed | for web applications that is |
| 23:44.41 | Legorol | it's interesting in how many areas/environments did Java conquer everything, but it lost to Flash in one key area :) |
| 23:44.47 | foxlit | A-KO: it prevents some "we don't do schooling here!" complications. |
| 23:44.50 | A-KO | We have a culture where businesses for the most part expect you to come into the workplace bringing knowledge you already have. Short of service sector jobs, where they still train. But your average office worker has to learn everything they need on their own time prior to entering the workforce (for the sake of saying, there is some stuff they do learn about the business, but you don't hire |
| 23:44.50 | A-KO | someone with the expectation of Apprenticing them, either.) |
| 23:45.14 | A-KO | But then the education costs are ridiculously high in comparison to some other nations that pretty much pay their students to get degrees. |
| 23:45.17 | alestane | But A-KO, if you think that the legal system enforces class division, take a look at systems that just hand the power to the people with the money. |
| 23:45.50 | alestane | As much as people protest the current implementations of patent and copyright law, they were created to protect small innovators. |
| 23:46.19 | alestane | So that someone with a big factory couldn't just mass-produce and mass-advertise your idea out from under you. |
| 23:46.21 | foxlit | alestane: "current" and "created" conflict |
| 23:46.30 | A-KO | alestane: I disagree, I think they go against the small innovators. I discussed just this the other week with a buddy, and could you imagine the detriment it would have if someone actually had the patent on the wheel? :P |
| 23:46.51 | Legorol | patent on wheel would've expired by now |
| 23:46.56 | A-KO | that person would be shitloads rich, but we wouldn't nearly have what we have today if the concept was patented and behind a licensing agreement |
| 23:46.57 | *** join/#wowuidev SeanK (~SeanK@pool-98-117-120-73.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 23:47.10 | A-KO | Legorol: not if the ASSes of America have their way :P |
| 23:47.55 | alestane | The main reason that we assume money equals legal power is because it means you can have expert people argue in court for you whle you continue making your own living, instead of having to drop everything to defend your case your amateur self. |
| 23:48.10 | A-KO | *and you can pay off people ot make laws that favor you |
| 23:48.23 | A-KO | *and you can get yourself into social circles with those people who will make laws to favor you and stand behind you |
| 23:48.26 | alestane | Which is fortunately not a fast process. |
| 23:48.32 | Jerub | tee hee. a friend of mine has an interesting story about this kinda thing. |
| 23:48.55 | Jerub | he's retired now, but he was in IT for a loong time. |
| 23:48.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Yssaril (~kvirc@99-57-32-25.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:49.11 | alestane | In fact, the US legal system is deliberately inefficient to make it hard to hijack. |
| 23:49.18 | Jerub | at one point a friend asked him to do a job for another friend of his, who was a QC. |
| 23:49.46 | Jerub | so he did some IT work for him on the basis that the QC would give him equal number of hours of legal work, if and when he needed it. worked out to something like 12 hours or something. |
| 23:49.54 | alestane | And the decision-making is spread out so that it's harder for someone to just find the guy who *will* do anything for a bucket of money, no questions asked. |
| 23:50.29 | A-KO | alestane: You'd be surprised. Many companies here have done a fantastic job of hijacking the US legal system |
| 23:50.32 | Jerub | then about a decade later, he got a letter from a large international company with 3 letters in their name saying they wanted to sue him for more than he was worth. so he phoned the QC, the QC got him to fax over the letter, and pooof. never heard about it again. |
| 23:50.34 | alestane | The system is often easier to work for the wealthy, but the poor would be a damn sight poorer. |
| 23:50.36 | A-KO | even down to the state and local levels |
| 23:50.44 | alestane | *without it. |
| 23:50.45 | Jerub | <3 having the right favours. |
| 23:51.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Ressy (~valwws@CPE002129d9fabf-CM0014e88eec26.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 23:51.15 | A-KO | Comcast negotiated on a county-by-county level the rights to have exclusivity agreements in those regions. |
| 23:51.29 | A-KO | back in the early to mid 90's you had a choice of about 3-4 cable providers in Maryland |
| 23:51.33 | Dagmar | Which regions? |
| 23:51.35 | A-KO | Comcast knocked 'em out, owned it all. |
| 23:51.38 | alestane | But generally, to get even a business-friendly law passed, you have to be able to create at least the appearance of how it will be productive in some way. |
| 23:51.42 | Dagmar | Here they just bought the local cable monopoly. |
| 23:51.45 | A-KO | that too Dagmar |
| 23:51.53 | A-KO | Dagmar: what they did here was cut off their customers then bought them out |
| 23:52.37 | A-KO | Dagmar: Comcast was also quite predatory in pricing as well. Between predatory marketing, predatory exclusivity agreements--they were able to win a significant marketshare here. |
| 23:53.03 | A-KO | Baltimore County's exclusivity agreement ended a few years back though, which only ended because Verizon wanted to roll out FIOS and pushed back on it. |
| 23:53.09 | A-KO | but Comcast held that shit for like a decade |
| 23:53.16 | A-KO | the damage being already done |
| 23:57.28 | nicoli_s | lol, our portable phone system just flashed the helpful error message "Impossible" |
| 23:59.39 | alestane | As long as you allow inequality of resources (which is pretty much impossible to eliminate), you're going to have some minority of the population using it to tip the table their way. That's pretty much what "wealthier" means; controlling more resources, i.e. greater leverage. |
