| 00:00.18 | Adys | there are a lot of apple employees buttbuddying google and vice versa |
| 00:00.38 | Adys | webkit is pretty much worked on by both google and apple |
| 00:01.58 | Arrowmaster | well i think thats also a result of competition using an open source product |
| 00:03.17 | Arrowmaster | kinda like one makes an improvement to it and the other goes 'damn we cant fall behind grab their latest patch' and plus they both have other motivations to keep improving it |
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| 00:05.19 | Thunder_Child | awesome i just got an invite for the cata closed beta |
| 00:05.19 | NightHawkTheSane | goes home |
| 00:05.46 | Dagmar | u suck |
| 00:05.54 | Thunder_Child | i already have one |
| 00:06.01 | Thunder_Child | and "wowaccountadmin@blizzard.com" seems rather dhasy |
| 00:06.03 | Thunder_Child | shady* |
| 00:06.18 | Maldivia | TC: check headers :P |
| 00:06.26 | Maldivia | is it send b hotmail.com ? |
| 00:06.30 | Thunder_Child | umarube@hotmail.com |
| 00:06.38 | Maldivia | heh |
| 00:06.48 | eidolarr | "Blizzard billing Cataclysm will support in the near future" it always amazes me, you would think that with the volume of spam they send out, they would take the time to pay an english speaker $50 to make the email at least somewhat believable |
| 00:06.49 | Thunder_Child | i like the rube part |
| 00:06.50 | Adys | rubs Thunder_Child's lube |
| 00:07.00 | Thunder_Child | rube Adys, not lube |
| 00:07.33 | amro | eidolarr: could say the same of nigerian scammers |
| 00:07.45 | Thunder_Child | though i wonder if i flag it as span, which addy it actually uses |
| 00:07.47 | amro | it would also help if they didn't mention Bank of Nigeria, or Nigeria in general. |
| 00:08.18 | *** join/#wowuidev bleeter (~bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 00:08.29 | Dagmar | ...and yet, statistically, there's always someone so damn new to the internet that they think the Prince of Nigeria needs their help |
| 00:08.34 | Arrowmaster | Thunder_Child: any system that actually thinks From: addresses can be used as any sort of valid data is broken by design |
| 00:08.53 | Xyphoid | i like how the nigerian scammers have started feeding on each other |
| 00:09.30 | Xyphoid | the last few I got were along the lines of 'you know how you're currently going to get money? well there's a change in the plan and you need to start emailing X instead! they'll get your money for you, stop talking to the losers you were dealing with' |
| 00:09.52 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: Give it a little more time. ISC is finally get involved. |
| 00:09.55 | Dagmar | er getting |
| 00:10.16 | Arrowmaster | what are they doing to do? |
| 00:10.31 | Dagmar | Setting up a DNS-like reputation system |
| 00:10.45 | Arrowmaster | the way the entire system is setup its impossible to fix without a forced upgrade for everybody |
| 00:11.00 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: that would have zero effect on the email problem |
| 00:11.13 | Dagmar | We'll see |
| 00:11.53 | Dagmar | I still think a more cost-effective solution would be an open bidding market for the lives of spammers. |
| 00:12.07 | MoonWitch | I would bid on it |
| 00:12.17 | Dagmar | Oh yeah I'd throw a few hundred dollars in myself |
| 00:12.22 | MoonWitch | but I would demand the spammer to be sent to my house |
| 00:12.24 | amro | step 1. buy a nigerian police uniform |
| 00:12.33 | amro | step 2. walk into a nigerian internet cafe |
| 00:12.36 | amro | step 3. lol as they scatter |
| 00:12.59 | amro | it may not seem like it, but the cops actually crack down on them from time to time |
| 00:13.06 | MoonWitch | I think the fact that I am Caucasian might give away a fake police officer |
| 00:13.27 | Dagmar | Then use a badge that says "Internet Police" |
| 00:13.40 | Arrowmaster | are the 419 spammers even from nigeria anymore? |
| 00:13.40 | amro | they won't wait to see your face MoonWitch |
| 00:13.45 | Dagmar | "WE DONT NEED UR STINKIN WARRANTS" |
| 00:13.47 | amro | Arrowmaster: most of them, yeah |
| 00:14.15 | Dagmar | "TROLLIN IS 4 PPL WHO ARE TOO CHICKENSHIT TO LOAD A GUN" |
| 00:15.44 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: http://www.isc.org/community/blog/201007/taking-back-dns-0 |
| 00:17.15 | Adys | nicoli_s |
| 00:17.26 | Adys | you done ajax with actionscript? |
| 00:18.12 | nicoli_s | nope |
| 00:19.57 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: that will still have no impact on email since dns is not really used by the underlying standard, its only used by stuff like spf and such that add onto it |
| 00:20.21 | *** join/#wowuidev RaK- (~rakkeh@109.170.128.22) |
| 00:20.58 | Dagmar | Uhuh. Sure. |
| 00:21.18 | Dagmar | Just like hostname resolution can't be used to resolve names back to IP addresses. |
| 00:21.51 | Arrowmaster | but where are you getting the hostname from |
| 00:24.08 | Dagmar | might as well be asking where the reputation information comes from |
| 00:24.14 | *** join/#wowuidev |Jelly| (~chatzilla@99-99-194-150.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 00:24.21 | Dagmar | Magic internet gnomes. |
| 00:24.45 | Dagmar | You put them in an apple press and make internet juice, which you then use to scent your personal emails. |
| 00:25.48 | Dagmar | Spam would not be this damn hard to eliminate if we had a reputation framework no one can so easily fucking sue the world over. |
| 00:26.07 | Dagmar | It's literally the one missing piece. |
| 00:26.34 | Arrowmaster | to me the missing piece is the link between having an email address and sending an email |
| 00:26.36 | Dagmar | Every time someone _starts_ such a thing, they are either sued to pieces by every sleazebag around, or they're just plain DDoSed offline |
| 00:26.39 | Arrowmaster | since there isnt one |
| 00:29.26 | Dagmar | I would say something like "user@domain.foo ~= .foo.domain.user but some jackal always wants to decent immediately into pointless pedantics |
| 00:30.49 | Dagmar | It's not enough to "just" use SPF. That framework only gets you as far as keeping Red Wall users in China from spoofing Telstra emails |
| 00:31.06 | Dagmar | The username given has to be able to be checked against a reputation system. |
| 00:31.09 | amro | Adys: ping you douche |
| 00:31.44 | Adys | pong you bag |
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| 00:33.32 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: right but first everybody needs to actually use something like SPF for the reputation system to have any effect |
| 00:33.59 | amro | sun protection factor? |
| 00:34.22 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: You might as well be whining that everyone has to use antivirus software to detect viruses |
| 00:34.28 | Adys | Sassy paedophile frenchmen? |
| 00:34.29 | Dagmar | SPF is fairly lightweight. |
| 00:34.42 | Dagmar | *MOST* of the spam I get fails SPF checks. |
| 00:34.57 | amro | most of the spam I get passes the sassy paedophile frenchman test |
| 00:35.45 | Dagmar | I don't see this as any different from MX admins complaining that they have to go an add another line to their config to make their server not be an open relay |
| 00:36.12 | amro | MX, now you're asking for it |
| 00:36.27 | Dagmar | ...but between SPF and a reputation system that's not so likely to be DDoSed until they're bankrupt, we acutally stand a chance to dropping spam down by an order of magnitude |
| 00:36.35 | Adys | amro: my ex? |
| 00:36.54 | Dagmar | s/to/of/ |
| 00:37.09 | Dagmar | glares at purl |
| 00:37.14 | amro | failmra |
| 00:37.17 | amro | failmar |
| 00:37.42 | amro | ~botsnack |
| 00:37.42 | purl | thanks, amro |
| 00:38.10 | Arrowmaster | and yet most email users use something like a webmail service which dont even seem to fucking obey SPF |
| 00:38.21 | Dagmar | Suuuucks to be hem |
| 00:38.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Alram (~Marla@fabe.xs4all.nl) |
| 00:38.54 | Arrowmaster | i just checked blizzard.com has an SPF record so why the fuck isnt every god damn webmail provider null routing all the phishing emails using a blizzard.com address? |
| 00:39.10 | Dagmar | I've personally have no problem with shitcanning somewhere that thinks pouring tons of people onto the internet without any sort of restraint is okay |
| 00:39.12 | Arrowmaster | not even fucking google does it |
| 00:39.39 | Dagmar | Strange that I'v enever had a single Blizz spam then |
| 00:39.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Nechckn (~N@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Admin/Nechckn) |
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| 00:40.31 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: i dont either but i know people that say they have |
| 00:40.53 | Arrowmaster | i actually have an account that has not received any spam at all in a year |
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| 00:49.31 | *** join/#wowuidev MoonWitch (~Kelly@d51A56B25.access.telenet.be) |
| 00:49.58 | Kraps | huh arranged teams play against random teams? |
| 00:50.32 | Kraps | http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/248295648?page=8#147 |
| 00:50.53 | *** join/#wowuidev MoonWitch (~Kelly@d51A56B25.access.telenet.be) |
| 00:51.23 | Cide | wow |
| 00:51.25 | Cide | welcome to years ago |
| 00:51.35 | Thunder_Child | *sigh* i need more multi-tasking, i want to play SC2, LoL, and watch an EP of NCIS all at the same time |
| 00:51.46 | Thunder_Child | s/ing/ing ability/ |
| 00:52.21 | MoonWitch | Thunder_Child: LoL? |
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| 00:52.32 | Kraps | Cide: thats kinda unfair |
| 00:52.37 | Thunder_Child | MoonWitch: http://www.leagueoflegends.com/ |
| 00:52.48 | Cide | I went over this in extreme detail last night |
| 00:52.51 | Cide | here it goes again |
| 00:53.06 | MoonWitch | ah |
| 00:53.32 | Cide | the difference in skill between two teams, one arranged and one random, given that the players individually are of equal skill, is a constant factor |
| 00:54.15 | Cide | all you need to do to correct the imbalance is to simply artificially increase the perceived skill level of the arranged team and they will be matched against comparatively more skilled players, should they play against a random team |
| 00:54.18 | Cide | solved. |
| 00:54.44 | Cide | and since the matchmaking system is a black box there is nothing that says that the above isn't already factored in |
| 00:54.49 | Dagmar | Collusion actually makes a difference when it's pre-planned. |
| 00:55.27 | Cide | what? |
| 00:55.40 | Thunder_Child | Cide: what about the top AT players? |
| 00:55.58 | alestane | I'm also not certain where the assumption that the challenge of playing a team game versus playing 1v1 is a constant. |
| 00:56.10 | Dagmar | Players who have worked out multiple plans together ahead of time are going to have a distinct edge over people who are working together, but had no plan until five minutes (or less) ago |
| 00:56.12 | Cide | alestane, I never said it was though |
| 00:56.20 | Cide | Dagmar, not really |
| 00:56.41 | Cide | every plan can be countered by good play |
| 00:56.44 | Cide | there are no exploits in sc2 |
| 00:57.09 | Dagmar | Then explain how PUGs suffer lack of coordination that guild raids don't, when everyone in the PUG is in a guild that raids |
| 00:57.10 | Xyphoid | also while you might be able to scale things such that the win rate is equal, the experience of playing with randoms against an arranged team is quite different to playing another set of randoms |
| 00:57.17 | Cide | if the two teams are equally good, which was given, the only factor that matters is how much you gain from playing on the same team |
| 00:57.25 | alestane | The play seems heavily haeceitic, but I'd think that strategy is a factor as well. |
| 00:57.25 | Cide | Dagmar, IT DOES MATTER |
| 00:57.30 | Cide | I'm simply arguing that it's a constant factor |
| 00:57.42 | Dagmar | I don't think it's constant tho. |
| 00:57.44 | Cide | if you nerfed all raid dungeons by that factor then PUGs would do as good as guilds do now |
| 00:57.53 | Kraps | Dagmar: theres no ladder for pugs |
| 00:58.05 | Kraps | but i now wish there was |
| 00:58.13 | Dagmar | It would nice if it _were_, but I've no reason to believe that such a thing is an easily quantifiable factor you can just handicap with a single number |
| 00:58.16 | Cide | alestane, it's given that the players are individually equally skilled |
| 00:58.23 | Cide | sure it is |
| 00:58.24 | Kraps | holy shit i just blew my own mind |
| 00:58.31 | Xyphoid | i mean, presumably the goal of your algorithm is to produce equal games right |
| 00:58.32 | Cide | your overall skill is measured by the ladder system |
| 00:58.53 | Xyphoid | so this approach of placing random teams vs arranged teams and scaling the ratings is one option |
| 00:58.58 | Cide | random teams get an artificial ladder boost since they get to play relatively speaking worse player |
| 00:59.06 | Xyphoid | i think the complaints are more about the game experience than the scaling though |
| 00:59.11 | Cide | ... |
| 00:59.12 | A-KO | http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2010/08/04/html5-modernized-fourth-ie9-platform-preview-available-for-developers.aspx |
| 00:59.29 | Cide | the game experience is solely defined by the equality of skill |
| 00:59.36 | Cide | unless you enjoy stomping noobs |
| 00:59.43 | Dagmar | A-KO: Wait until they offer free spoons to melt it down with |
| 00:59.43 | Cide | in which case you're not the target audience of the matchmaking system |
| 00:59.49 | Xyphoid | because for example, another algorithm would be to flip a coin and play a cutscene for the winner - this also produces equal games |
| 01:00.05 | Cide | that's a fucking stupid argument and you know it |
| 01:00.15 | Cide | equal games provide the best experience |
| 01:00.17 | Cide | do you disagree? |
| 01:00.23 | Xyphoid | sure, and flipping a coin is equal |
| 01:00.27 | Cide | no it isn't |
| 01:00.30 | Cide | then you're removing the game |
| 01:00.36 | Dagmar | Tell that to Lasa Vegas. |
| 01:00.39 | Xyphoid | i'm saying that there is more to experience than just scaled equal win rates |
| 01:00.49 | Cide | the experience is not about win rates |
| 01:00.49 | Arrowmaster | is this yet another browser specific html5 'preview' |
| 01:00.49 | Xyphoid | playing random team vs arranged team is not the same experience as random vs random |
| 01:00.58 | Cide | YES IT IS IF THE TWO TEAMS PLAY EQUALLY WELL |
| 01:00.59 | A-KO | Arrowmaster: no |
| 01:01.04 | A-KO | Arrowmaster: read the whole blog |
| 01:01.04 | Cide | how is this hard to gasp? |
| 01:01.05 | Dagmar | They never will |
| 01:01.06 | Cide | grasp |
| 01:01.10 | Cide | of course they will |
| 01:01.18 | Dagmar | Since when? |
| 01:01.18 | Xyphoid | but it's clearly not, because a random team has to plan coordination after the game starts |
| 01:01.19 | alestane | It's the apparent assertion that if an established team composed of (level 20) players is equivalent to one random team of (level 22) players, then that established team will be comparable to ANY random team of (level 22) players, that I have to question. |
| 01:01.24 | Cide | you just pit better individual random players against worse arranged players |
| 01:01.41 | Cide | alestane, the same is true for all ladder matches |
| 01:01.45 | Cide | it's a limitation of the system |
| 01:01.47 | Cide | and of all games |
| 01:01.48 | Cide | and all sports |
| 01:01.57 | Cide | it's not unique to this discussion and thus a non-issue imo |
| 01:01.58 | Dagmar | Arranged teams have players who know each other's strenghts and weaknesses. They can much more readily predict how well and of what type the support they can expect from their mates |
| 01:02.02 | Dagmar | Random teams do not have this. |
| 01:02.12 | Cide | Dagmar, hence the perceived higher skill of AT players |
| 01:02.12 | alestane | He's not denying that. |
| 01:02.21 | Cide | thus they get a boost up the ladder |
| 01:02.31 | Xyphoid | i mean, you can absolutely scale the team matchmaking to produce a 50-50 win rate |
| 01:02.46 | Cide | and that's what you're aiming for |
| 01:02.47 | alestane | He's saying that the factor of skill difference between an arranged team of level X players and a random team of level X players is consistent and predictable. |
| 01:02.49 | Dagmar | I'm with Xyphoid on this. \ |
| 01:02.54 | Xyphoid | but the alternative option is to play AT vs AT and RT vs RT |
| 01:02.58 | Cide | ... |
| 01:03.00 | Cide | jesus fucking christ |
| 01:03.10 | Cide | what would be the goal of the matchmaking algorithm even if it was AT vs AT and RT vs RT? |
| 01:03.13 | Cide | it would be a 50-50 win ratio. |
| 01:03.17 | Cide | that's the only way to measure equal skill. |
| 01:03.19 | Dagmar | While one might be able to scale things to make the aggregate numbers add up, each individual game is likely to be a much different thing than any AT/AT or RT/RT |
| 01:03.41 | Cide | if you have a 50-50 win ratio then you are playing in the correct skill bracket |
| 01:04.00 | Cide | Dagmar, do you even *play* starcraft 2? |
| 01:04.05 | Dagmar | Yes, I do. |
| 01:04.09 | Cide | doesn't show |
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| 01:04.16 | Xyphoid | can you not see that RT vs AT isn't *fun* for some people even if they're playing against a lower-skilled AT |
| 01:04.17 | Cide | what's the name of the protoss main building? |
| 01:04.25 | Cide | Xyphoid, and why is it not fun? |
| 01:04.30 | Cide | because it's not even? |
| 01:04.34 | Dagmar | Well, thanks for taking a crap on my 20 years of gaming experience. |
| 01:04.47 | Cide | you're arguing a point that has nothing to do with the discussion |
| 01:04.57 | Xyphoid | you seem to think that the only thing that determines whether a game is fun is whether it's balanced |
| 01:04.57 | Cide | of course arranged teams are better than random teams |
| 01:05.02 | Dagmar | If a 50-50 win ratio is all that matters, people might as well be tossing coins over and over. |
| 01:05.03 | Cide | Xyphoid, yes, I do |
| 01:05.04 | alestane | I think the question is how accurately you can consistently place someone in the right bracket by giving them a constant adjustment. |
| 01:05.11 | Xyphoid | well, a coinflip is balanced |
| 01:05.12 | Cide | Dagmar, no; then you're removing the GAME |
| 01:05.16 | Cide | wow |
| 01:05.19 | Cide | this is about matchmaking |
| 01:05.24 | Cide | not about devicing an entirely different game |
| 01:05.39 | alestane | My presumption is that this is mostly derived from statistical analysis, rather than any fundamental. |
| 01:05.41 | Cide | the matchmaking algorithm should make games of starcraft 2 even, not games of rock paper scissors |
| 01:05.44 | Dagmar | And yet, AT players are playing a distinctly different thing than RT players |
| 01:05.53 | Cide | no they aren't |
| 01:05.56 | Cide | they get the same resources |
| 01:05.59 | Cide | they get the same units |
| 01:06.08 | Dagmar | They don't get the same level of advanced planning. |
| 01:06.14 | Cide | and that's a measure of SKILL |
| 01:06.19 | Dagmar | ...and that's not quantifiable by a simple handicap. |
| 01:06.21 | Cide | it can be countered by PLAYING BETTER |
| 01:06.27 | Dagmar | The freaking PGA knows that doesn't work. |
| 01:06.53 | Dagmar | Practically every sports association out there knows it doesn't work |
| 01:06.54 | Cide | so you're saying that two noobs playing arranged team beat Idra and Tester (randomly matched together) in a 2v2? |
| 01:07.14 | Dagmar | They damn well might |
| 01:07.17 | Cide | that's |
| 01:07.18 | Cide | the most |
| 01:07.20 | Cide | stupid fucking thing |
| 01:07.23 | Cide | I have ever heard in my life |
| 01:07.27 | Xyphoid | i believe that everyone's conceded that you can scale the *win rate* to end up at 50% |
| 01:07.32 | Xyphoid | but the *gameplay* is different |
| 01:07.34 | alestane | I presume those are top players? |
| 01:07.36 | Cide | yes |
| 01:07.38 | Dagmar | That's an incredible argumentation technique. "Your idea is stupid!" |
| 01:07.41 | Xyphoid | just like coinflip vs sc2 is different |
| 01:07.49 | Cide | Xyphoid, why is it different? |
| 01:08.05 | Xyphoid | but hey, you've claimed that 50% win rate is the *only thing that determines if a game is fun* |
| 01:08.06 | Cide | Dagmar, let me explain why it is stupid instead of simply positing that it is |
| 01:08.08 | alestane | I don't deny that there's a difference. The only question is, how reliably consistent is it? |
| 01:08.08 | Xyphoid | so i'll leave it alone |
| 01:08.28 | Cide | no, I never claimed that's the case |
| 01:08.32 | Cide | I claimed that even games are the most fun |
| 01:08.47 | Cide | and you get the most even games when playing the same skill level over and over and having 50% win ratio doing so |
| 01:08.52 | Cide | that's what I claim |
| 01:08.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Sesshu| (~Sesshu@ip-126-16.travedsl.de) |
| 01:08.59 | Cide | do you disagree? |
| 01:09.01 | Cide | if so, why? |
| 01:09.05 | Dagmar | That doesn't work backwards |
| 01:09.12 | Cide | what? |
| 01:09.25 | Xyphoid | i'm saying, why do you *need* to have AT vs RT, when you can use the same matching algorithm for AT vs AT and RT vs RT |
| 01:09.39 | Dagmar | YOu cide that even games are the most fun, and that a 50-50 win ration is the most even. |
| 01:09.45 | Dagmar | One follows the other. |
| 01:09.52 | Cide | no? |
| 01:09.52 | Dagmar | This does not necessarily work in reverse. |
| 01:09.58 | eidolarr | what are you even talking about |
| 01:10.00 | eidolarr | please continue cide |
| 01:10.03 | Cide | they are two separate statements |
| 01:10.09 | Cide | do you disagree with either? |
| 01:10.20 | Dagmar | Simply massaging numbers until you have a 50-50 win ratio does not necessarily produce the most fun, or even a lot of fun. |
| 01:10.29 | Cide | let's start here |
| 01:10.42 | Dagmar | If this were the case, you could throw noobs at high level players all day long and simply give them a huge incentive to win because they so rarely do. |
| 01:10.49 | foxlit | 50-50 ratios aren't necessarily fun for anyone |
| 01:10.58 | Cide | why not? |
| 01:10.59 | foxlit | The problem is that 90-10 ratios aren't fun for the -10 people. |
| 01:11.04 | Xyphoid | a coinflip is 50-50 and that's clearly no fun |
| 01:11.11 | alestane | Nor very fu for the +90s. |
| 01:11.13 | Cide | STOP BRINGING IN COINFLIPS YOU'RE STUPID |
| 01:11.14 | eidolarr | they're not fun for the 90 either if the 90 players are over 13 |
| 01:11.20 | alestane | Cide, calm down. |
| 01:11.30 | Cide | I will if people stop bringing up stupid arguments and act like they're sane |
| 01:11.40 | Cide | I keep asking questions but nobody answers |
| 01:11.50 | Cide | and nobody is standing up to say they disagree with my statements |
| 01:12.00 | alestane | Just because a coin flip is 50-50, doesn't mean that every 50-50 is a coin flip. |
| 01:12.22 | Xyphoid | nobody disagrees that you can at least try to scale the matchmaker to produce 50-50 game results between AT-Rt |
| 01:12.24 | Cide | more importantly, coin flips have nothing to do with starcraft 2 matchmaking |
| 01:12.34 | Dagmar | alestane: Or that ther'es a coin involved. I see where your'e going. Someone could replace the coin with a midget. Then it would probably be more fun for everyone but hte midget. |
| 01:12.47 | eidolarr | what is this argument about? |
| 01:12.49 | foxlit | "Cide: I claimed that even games are the most fun" << I'll disagree there. |
| 01:12.54 | Cide | why? |
| 01:12.58 | Cide | because you like winning? |
| 01:12.59 | foxlit | Games that are slightly slanted towards *me* are more fun. |
| 01:13.03 | Cide | well so does everyone else |
| 01:13.14 | Cide | from a neutral standpoint 50-50 is optimal |
| 01:13.23 | Dagmar | I'm fine with even odds as long as no turtling gets involved. |
| 01:13.29 | foxlit | I don't think that necessarily follows. |
| 01:13.32 | Dagmar | No one likes wars of attrition |
| 01:13.32 | Cide | why not? |
| 01:13.44 | Cide | in every game played, one team wins and the other team loses |
| 01:13.57 | Cide | thus the average win ratio across all the games played is 50% |
| 01:14.03 | Xyphoid | are you willing to agree that even with a 50-50 win rate, some games are more fun than others |
| 01:14.07 | alestane | Also, when two complex processes combine chaotically, the result is not inherently random. |
| 01:14.11 | Cide | how do you play on slanting that higher than 50% in *everyone*s* favor? |
| 01:14.12 | Shirik | en taro adun, executor |
| 01:14.13 | Xyphoid | that there are factors apart from an even win rate that contribute to making the game fun |
| 01:14.14 | Dagmar | Yes, but in RT/AT one team is generally going to be more coordinated than the other |
| 01:14.29 | alestane | The ability to monitor, grasp and control that interaction is the usual measure of skill in RTS games. |
| 01:14.29 | foxlit | ^ Xyphoid. |
| 01:14.37 | Cide | Xyphoid, yes, but how do you plan on bringing in matchmaking to predict fun games? |
| 01:14.52 | Dagmar | If the other guys are well coordinated and your guys aren't, or if your guys are well coordinated and the other guys fumble around, there's markedly less fun |
| 01:14.58 | smcn | what about when one playeris left with a couple ground units and no structures, and the other is a terran left with only 1 building and no units and takes off and hides in the corner of the map? |
| 01:14.58 | Dagmar | i.e., _someone_ gets roflstomped |
| 01:15.00 | foxlit | You don't. It's a system at conflict with itself. |
| 01:15.08 | foxlit | It cannot achieve the "good" outcome for everyone |
| 01:15.09 | Cide | Dagmar, you're assuming that the game is uneven. |
| 01:15.13 | foxlit | So it ends up creating misery for everyone. |
| 01:15.21 | Xyphoid | well, we're saying we don't like RT vs AT because it produces less fun games EVEN IF it's scaled to a 50-50 win rate |
| 01:15.22 | Cide | foxlit, sure you can |
| 01:15.27 | foxlit | Or, if not misery, mediocrity. |
| 01:15.31 | Dagmar | Xyphoid++ |
| 01:15.33 | alestane | In my experience, foxlit, most people prefer winnig a game they feel was slanted against them. |
| 01:15.37 | Shirik | I bet it's possible to have a draw |
| 01:15.52 | Cide | Xyphoid, and WHY do you believe that is? |
| 01:15.53 | Xyphoid | due to fun-contribution factors that are not related to the scaled win rate |
| 01:15.56 | Cide | I strongly believe that is not the case |
| 01:16.21 | Xyphoid | i can see that |
| 01:16.21 | foxlit | [can you even tell that your opponent is an arranged team?] |
| 01:16.26 | Cide | [no |
| 01:16.27 | Cide | ] |
| 01:16.34 | Cide | and you have never given a single reason why that is |
| 01:16.37 | Cide | nobody has |
| 01:16.48 | Cide | yes, the arranged team is more coordinated from past games |
| 01:16.54 | eidolarr | well |
| 01:16.55 | Cide | the random team has better players |
| 01:17.01 | Cide | consider this: |
| 01:17.04 | eidolarr | I wouldn't want to play it because I want to play against a team facing the same challenges as me |
| 01:17.07 | eidolarr | it's like you said |
| 01:17.09 | Cide | if a random team wins half their games against arranged teams |
| 01:17.11 | eidolarr | the game wouldn't be fun if one teams tarted with more workers |
| 01:17.20 | eidolarr | dealing with a random prson is part of the challenge of RT |
| 01:17.20 | Dagmar | I would much rather all parties be facing the same challenges |
| 01:17.27 | Cide | ok, shh |
| 01:17.28 | Cide | consider this |
| 01:17.31 | Cide | if a random team wins half their games against arranged teams |
| 01:17.35 | Cide | are they not as good as said arranged teams? |
| 01:17.37 | smcn | consider the lily |
| 01:17.52 | Dagmar | WHo here is playing SC2 to prove that they're better than everyone else? |
| 01:18.03 | Cide | me. |
| 01:18.13 | Dagmar | You probably need a hobby then. |
| 01:18.16 | eidolarr | the RT team would be better |
| 01:18.17 | Cide | I was kidding. |
| 01:18.24 | Cide | eidolarr, why? they're winning half their games |
| 01:18.34 | eidolarr | it depends on what you mean by "better" |
| 01:18.40 | Cide | as a team they're equally good obviously |
| 01:18.43 | eidolarr | they have to be better players because the challenges they face are greater |
| 01:18.43 | Dagmar | It's more a matter of _how_ they win or lose, not simply that they won or lost |
| 01:18.47 | alestane | They would be a comparable team, but probably more skilled individually. |
| 01:18.51 | Cide | alestane, exactly |
| 01:18.56 | Cide | now |
| 01:19.00 | Dagmar | You can generally tell when your opponent muffs it |
| 01:19.19 | Cide | do you think such games are at all distinguishable from, say, RT vs RT or AT vs AT? |
| 01:19.31 | Cide | and if so, why? |
| 01:19.46 | eidolarr | you mean if you're ingame, could you tell? |
| 01:19.49 | Cide | yes |
| 01:20.07 | eidolarr | well if they use a 2 person cheese obviously they're AT |
| 01:20.08 | Cide | "oh my god, this team backs each other up really well, and they have these excellent tactics" |
| 01:20.12 | Xyphoid | do you think that from a replay of an AT vs RT game you could tell which side was which? |
| 01:20.14 | Xyphoid | i think so |
| 01:20.23 | Cide | not replay |
| 01:20.24 | Cide | in-game |
| 01:20.31 | Cide | replay gives you access to the opponent's view |
| 01:20.39 | Cide | we're only concerned about in-game since that's when it matters |
| 01:20.48 | Dagmar | Even if you didn't have access to their view, I'd say you could still probably tell |
| 01:20.51 | Cide | why? |
| 01:20.56 | Cide | <Cide> "oh my god, this team backs each other up really well, and they have these excellent tactics" |
| 01:20.58 | Cide | ^ because of that? |
| 01:21.02 | Dagmar | _coordination_ |
| 01:21.16 | Dagmar | If it didn't matter, then there'd be little point in _teams_ |
| 01:21.23 | Cide | if the random team wins half their games against the coordinated team, are they not equally coordinated? |
| 01:21.51 | Dagmar | No. That conclusion does not necessarily follow from it's premises. |
| 01:21.53 | alestane | I think my issue is that all arranged teams are NOT in fact, created equal. Some may not know each other as well yet, or be as familiar with the partiucalr strategies they're agreeing on, so while the cooperation bonus is real, I don't see how it can be considered constant. |
| 01:22.07 | Cide | alestane, it's not constant |
| 01:22.32 | Cide | in fact I realize you don't even need the offset factor I discussed earlier |
| 01:22.53 | alestane | 20:53 Cide: the difference in skill between two teams, one arranged and one random, given that the players individually are of equal skill, is a constant factor |
| 01:23.04 | alestane | That's what's been provoking my discussion the whole time. |
| 01:23.05 | Cide | yes, I take that back after further consideration |
| 01:23.08 | Cide | the fact that the game uses ranking points akin to wow's arena system takes care of all that for you automatically |
| 01:23.21 | Cide | already |
| 01:23.35 | Cide | (I still argue that the games are equally fun and all that) |
| 01:23.50 | Cide | but I realize a constant offset is actually superfluous |
| 01:23.57 | Cide | the ranking system takes care of that as it is |
| 01:24.06 | Cide | if you win you face harder opponents, if you lose you face easier opponents |
| 01:24.17 | Cide | if you win and lose 50-50 you face the same opponents all the time |
| 01:24.48 | alestane | It's a homeostatic system. |
| 01:25.13 | Cide | indeed |
| 01:25.18 | alestane | Or to put it another way, the Peter Principle applies. |
| 01:25.27 | Cide | Dagmar, in my opinion I would strongly prefer to face a highly coordinated team and still win half the time |
| 01:25.42 | Cide | I believe such games would be way more intense than playing relatively speaking uncoordinated teams |
| 01:26.33 | Kraps | Cide: do you _know_ that blizz does this in at vs rt games? |
| 01:26.35 | eidolarr | naw |
| 01:26.45 | Cide | Kraps, I know so, see the addendum |
| 01:27.00 | Cide | * they likely don't offset it, but just let the system sort itself out |
| 01:27.04 | Kraps | addendum to what? |
| 01:27.14 | Cide | see monologue about 10 messages up |
| 01:27.20 | Cide | followed by <alestane> It's a homeostatic system. |
| 01:27.45 | Cide | i.e. my idea was entirely superfluous; the system is good as it is |
| 01:27.56 | alestane | If you're consistently winning 70%-30%, it's fair to match you against opponents with stronger histories than your previous opponents. |
| 01:28.09 | Cide | indeed |
| 01:28.30 | Cide | if you're winning 50%-50% you're about right where you should be for even matches |
| 01:28.35 | Jerub | i dont' see how this is a problem anyway. |
| 01:28.37 | Cide | if a team is highly coordinated they will shoot up in the ranks |
| 01:28.46 | Jerub | you're at a disadvantage if you're playing against coordinated teams |
| 01:28.48 | Cide | and the coordination will offset their individual skill |
| 01:28.56 | Jerub | so shouldn't you be in a lower place, maybe even in a lower league? |
| 01:29.02 | Cide | no |
| 01:29.02 | alestane | Until they reach their level of incompetence. |
| 01:29.07 | Jerub | of course coordinated teams will top the ladders. |
| 01:29.07 | Cide | well |
| 01:29.07 | Cide | that's relative of course |
| 01:29.08 | Jerub | otherwise they're not balanced matches |
| 01:29.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Cairenn (~Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 01:29.26 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 01:29.26 | Cide | either you should be in a lower league or the coordinated team should be in a higher league |
| 01:29.31 | Cide | the two are equivalent |
| 01:29.35 | Jerub | whatever. |
| 01:29.41 | alestane | Skilled teams will top the ladders. That skill may come from individual or group ability. |
| 01:29.59 | Cide | and such RT vs AT is perfectly fair |
| 01:30.05 | foxlit | team / random ladders are distinct anyway |
| 01:30.12 | Cide | ladders but not matches |
| 01:30.21 | foxlit | /care about matches |
| 01:30.23 | Cide | and not matchmaking pools |
| 01:30.40 | Cide | given that both teams are placed in the correct pool it will be perfectly fair |
| 01:30.46 | foxlit | Wings of Liberty: Brutal 15; next Achievement: Wings of Liberty: Brutal 20: 1/20 |
| 01:30.49 | foxlit | Not encouraging. |
| 01:31.01 | Cide | haha |
| 01:31.07 | foxlit | (and mission log says 20 / 26 completed, so meh) |
| 01:31.19 | Cide | should have 25 achievements on brutal |
| 01:31.26 | Cide | Brutal 1, Brutal 2, ..., Brutal 25 |
| 01:31.39 | Cide | unless Dagmar and Xyphoid have something to add to the above discussion? |
| 01:31.59 | eidolarr | what happens at the top of the ladder? |
| 01:32.15 | Cide | I don't think that's an issue |
| 01:32.15 | eidolarr | does it turn into RTvRT and ATvAT only? |
| 01:32.22 | Cide | doubtful but possible |
| 01:32.43 | Cide | not an issue regardless |
| 01:32.50 | Cide | as long as the games are even |
| 01:33.10 | eidolarr | At the top of the ladders players like competing in their bracket |
| 01:33.22 | eidolarr | I could see it getting sour if some of your games aren't against other RT players |
| 01:33.25 | eidolarr | like, they like knowing each other |
| 01:33.30 | Cide | what? |
| 01:33.31 | eidolarr | watchnig the movements of the rankings |
| 01:33.37 | Cide | I'm not following at all |
| 01:33.46 | eidolarr | well I guess they killed chatrooms so it's less relevant, but |
| 01:34.03 | eidolarr | in WC3 there was a channel where all the high ranking RT 2v2 plaeyrs hung out, talked shit, joked around, etc |
| 01:34.47 | Cide | chat rooms are coming back afaik |
| 01:34.51 | Cide | s/afaik// |
| 01:35.12 | eidolarr | I think that RT strategy and the RT community is very different from AT, and that mixing the brackets is harder than mixing the ranking system |
| 01:35.41 | Cide | huh? |
| 01:35.51 | Cide | the brackets are mixed, that's what the discussion is about |
| 01:35.59 | Cide | the ladders are, however, separate |
| 01:36.21 | eidolarr | I am failing at communicating |
| 01:36.54 | Cide | indeed :P |
| 01:36.55 | eidolarr | I'm saying that the social scene amongst random team players is different from that amongst AT players, and playing games against both doesn't gel with that |
| 01:37.17 | Cide | I believe that to be a quite minor issue |
| 01:37.22 | Cide | you'll still play against random teams |
| 01:37.25 | Cide | if you are a random team |
| 01:38.03 | eidolarr | so you won't be matched against an arranged team? |
| 01:38.13 | Cide | sure you will, but not all the time |
| 01:43.54 | Dagmar | eidolarr: Someone's much more likely to call the other person a noobish beyotch if they were randomly put with 'em |
| 01:43.57 | Dagmar | heheh |
| 01:44.39 | eidolarr | Cide: idk it seems like by this argument you could rank the bots and throw them into the matchmaking system |
| 01:44.52 | Cide | what? |
| 01:44.52 | eidolarr | you're treating the opponents like black boxes |
| 01:44.56 | Dagmar | eidolarr: Sure. :) |
| 01:44.59 | Cide | yes, and you should be |
| 01:45.04 | Shirik | so random question |
| 01:45.10 | Dagmar | *sigh*. People arne't black boxes |
| 01:45.15 | Cide | who says they are? |
| 01:45.19 | Shirik | I recently found out that every software engineer in my building is in the "southeast corner" |
| 01:45.19 | Cide | this is computer science |
| 01:45.23 | Shirik | do you think this is intentional? |
| 01:45.25 | Cide | well I'm sure you could create an even better matchmaking system by taking game data into account |
| 01:45.43 | Cide | Shirik, random, or *arranged*, question? |
| 01:45.55 | Shirik | southeast = SE = software engineer |
| 01:46.02 | Cide | lol |
| 01:46.04 | Cide | that's awesome if so |
| 01:46.06 | Dagmar | Shirik: That's coincidence |
| 01:46.16 | eidolarr | i would rather play a game where i play against humans |
| 01:46.24 | Cide | naturally |
| 01:46.35 | Dagmar | Now, if that were the side of the building with deep structural flaws and a small chance the ceiling would collapse, _then_ I'd say it was planned |
| 01:46.40 | Cide | but that's because bots cheat to be good |
| 01:46.46 | Cide | and they are not spontaneous |
| 01:46.50 | Cide | and they are deterministic |
| 01:46.58 | Cide | none of which apply to humans |
| 01:47.07 | Dagmar | (excepting AT players) |
| 01:47.13 | Cide | what? |
| 01:47.22 | eidolarr | none of those are the reason |
| 01:47.24 | Cide | so yes, the game experience would be altered drastically if bots entered the matchmaking system |
| 01:47.37 | eidolarr | even if a bot played exactly like a player i'd rather play the human |
| 01:47.59 | Cide | that's only for the reason that you like being better than another human being |
| 01:48.11 | Cide | which I totally get |
| 01:48.13 | eidolarr | nah i don't think it's like that, it happens in cooperative games too |
| 01:48.22 | eidolarr | this is not an unusual feeling either |
| 01:48.25 | Cide | oh, you're lonely then |
| 01:48.34 | Cide | but yes I know |
| 01:48.34 | eidolarr | insert coin, play again |
| 01:48.46 | Cide | what's your point anyway? |
| 01:49.00 | eidolarr | I'm not sure, just thinking about it |
| 01:49.20 | nicoli_s | Shadowed:we got in our linking to battle.net profiles today |
| 01:49.21 | eidolarr | I guess if it had to be a point, it would be that people don't just care about a 50/50 rate |
| 01:49.26 | Cide | then I hereby apply my logic of "I won because everyone else stopped contesting my arguments" |
| 01:49.35 | nicoli_s | i win by that all the time |
| 01:49.41 | nicoli_s | its the most geatifying kind of win |
| 01:49.44 | Dagmar | Doesn't that make you a troll? |
| 01:49.44 | Cide | indeed |
| 01:49.44 | nicoli_s | gratifying |
| 01:49.47 | eidolarr | i did too as a toddler |
| 01:49.47 | Cide | no |
| 01:49.51 | eidolarr | as i sad alone in the sandbox |
| 01:49.54 | eidolarr | *sat |
| 01:49.55 | eidolarr | (or sad?) |
| 01:49.58 | Cide | it makes you boring to argue with |
| 01:50.08 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-76-116-64-179.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 01:50.10 | Cide | but regardless I'm right so /shrug |
| 01:50.10 | Dagmar | You know, I could have sworn it's a technique favored by trolls. |
| 01:50.15 | Cide | I'm sure it is |
| 01:50.28 | Cide | but you stopped bringing up arguments so I figured you saw reason |
| 01:50.34 | Dagmar | No, I stopped giving a damn, |
| 01:50.37 | Cide | people don't care about the 50/50 ratio, they care about having fun |
| 01:50.46 | Cide | unless they're playing to win in which case more power to them |
| 01:51.09 | Cide | the point remains that 50-50 win ratio is the most optimal way to achieve any of that from an objective standpoint |
| 01:51.24 | Cide | unless some people like losing but I don't believe that to be the case |
| 01:51.25 | eidolarr | well here is what I was thinking |
| 01:51.31 | Dagmar | Either way, RT/RT and AT/AT are not the same game as RT/AT mixed and can readily be shown to be less fun. |
| 01:51.38 | Cide | readily be shown? |
| 01:51.40 | Cide | I'm all ears dude |
| 01:51.48 | Dagmar | No you're not. You just call people stupid. |
| 01:51.48 | Cide | show me the proof |
| 01:51.54 | Cide | only if they bring up coin flips |
| 01:51.56 | eidolarr | by the same logic that people would rather face people than bots, even if they can hardly tell ingame, they would rather play against random teams if they themselves are random |
| 01:52.04 | Cide | I would honestly and truthfully love to see your proof of why that is the case |
| 01:52.16 | eidolarr | was that to me? you type fast |
| 01:52.19 | Cide | no, Dagmar |
| 01:52.27 | Cide | in fact I haven't trolled for a second in this discussion fwiw |
| 01:52.35 | Xyphoid | the coinflip thing makes you really angry doesn't it |
| 01:52.50 | Cide | yes |
| 01:52.56 | eidolarr | to be fair it's pretty banal |
| 01:53.02 | Cide | because it's one hundred percent irrelevant to the discussion |
| 01:53.20 | Cide | and bringing it up seems like a troll attempt to me |
| 01:53.31 | Xyphoid | not really. 50-50 win rates was irrelevant to the bit i was interested in |
| 01:54.11 | Cide | 50-50 win rates are the best way to achieve maximum fun overall in any matchmaking setting |
| 01:54.27 | Cide | another argument however is if AT vs RT is inherently less fun |
| 01:54.37 | Cide | and Dagmar is about to prove that is the case |
| 01:54.46 | Cide | the two arguments are however completely separate |
| 01:55.09 | Shirik | I disagree |
| 01:55.10 | Xyphoid | all i've been saying since the start is that there are other things that contribute to fun, and that if the win rate is *all* you care about then you may as well coinflip. |
| 01:55.13 | Arrowmaster | ~weather kday |
| 01:55.13 | Cide | about what, Shirik? |
| 01:55.18 | Xyphoid | even if it's a coinflip in the sc2 interface |
| 01:55.22 | Shirik | play someone 500 levels above you followed by someone 500 levels below you |
| 01:55.24 | Shirik | over and over gain |
| 01:55.27 | Shirik | this will not be fun |
| 01:55.31 | Cide | Xyphoid, you never care about the win |
| 01:55.32 | Shirik | but it is a 50-50 win rate |
| 01:55.38 | Cide | Shirik, see the discussion |
| 01:55.47 | Cide | let me bring up the relevant quote, sec |
| 01:56.05 | Xyphoid | when did i say anything about caring about the win? |
| 01:56.09 | Xyphoid | i'm talking about the win rate |
| 01:56.26 | Cide | <Cide> I claimed that even games are the most fun |
| 01:56.26 | Cide | <Cide> and you get the most even games when playing the same skill level over and over and having 50% win ratio doing so |
| 01:56.26 | Cide | <Cide> that's what I claim |
| 01:56.48 | Cide | playing the same skill level over and over and having 50% win ratio doing so |
| 01:56.53 | Cide | highlighted for you |
| 01:57.25 | Xyphoid | sure, i agree with that, however I'm saying that there are other factors that make a game fun *in addition* to the win rate. and that the win rate is not even the most important. |
| 01:57.31 | Cide | Xyphoid, if all you care about is a message popping up saying you won, then yes, coin flips would do |
| 01:57.45 | Cide | but your argument is, again, fucking stupid, because people care about winning games in sc2, not in coin-flip |
| 01:58.02 | eidolarr | yeah but people care about more than winning games is his point |
| 01:58.08 | Cide | of course |
| 01:58.11 | Cide | and that brings me to... |
| 01:58.35 | Cide | ultimately, again, most people only care about having fun, not winning; but as there are opponents too -- that don't have fun while losing (unless their brains are wired differently than most) -- we have to consider them too |
| 01:58.45 | eidolarr | idk I think you are pretty much dead on, but you are too dismissive of people's desire to play a "fair" game |
| 01:58.56 | MoonWitch | oooh eidolarr now I see you ... f.lux does affect tiredness, but not a lot |
| 01:59.08 | Cide | eidolarr, .......... |
| 01:59.11 | eidolarr | yeah I turn down my monitor's brightness too as it gets later |
| 01:59.16 | Cide | I've been arguing *FOR* the fair game all this time |
| 01:59.21 | eidolarr | Cide: give me a second |
| 01:59.36 | Dagmar | No, you've been arguing that the statistical outcome means it's fair |
| 01:59.43 | eidolarr | there are sort of two types of ways to change the matchmaking weighting of a game |
| 01:59.53 | eidolarr | one is to match up against a more skilled opponent |
| 01:59.58 | Cide | <Cide> the game experience is solely defined by the equality of skill |
| 02:00.09 | eidolarr | you're saying that you can counterbalance the coordination benefits of playing AT, by picking more skilled individual RT plaeyrs, right? |
| 02:00.16 | Cide | yes |
| 02:00.17 | eidolarr | and that in the end it's a fair, fun game? |
| 02:00.21 | Cide | yes |
| 02:00.26 | Xyphoid | i understand your argument, just don't get why you're deploying this argument in favor of RT vs AT. i have agreed repeatedly with you that you can balance such games so that they're 50-50 |
| 02:00.26 | Cide | fun who knows |
| 02:00.32 | Cide | the matchmaking system only deals with fair |
| 02:00.39 | eidolarr | but you could also say, "ok you're going to play this guy who is more skilful than you in terms of rank, but we are going to start you out with 3 more drones" |
| 02:00.49 | eidolarr | most people would be uninterested in such a game |
| 02:00.55 | Dagmar | Well, if that' the case, then the system is by your earlier statements, matching players of inequal skill in an attempt to compensate for differences in coordination and planning |
| 02:00.59 | eidolarr | there is an obvious difference between that and matching against a more skileld player |
| 02:01.03 | Cide | eidolarr, except the game remains exactly the same |
| 02:01.19 | Cide | Dagmar, yes, of course it is |
| 02:01.24 | eidolarr | but in some people's eyes the "coordination bonus" of an AT game is closer to the "more drones" bonus than the "more skill" |
| 02:01.26 | Dagmar | Then that's less fun |
| 02:01.32 | Cide | why? |
| 02:01.42 | eidolarr | yeah the game is exactly the same but that's incidental |
| 02:01.44 | Shirik | wtf is an AT game? |
| 02:01.49 | Dagmar | <Cide> <Cide> the game experience is solely defined by the equality of skill |
| 02:01.53 | Shirik | is that what came before ATX games? |
| 02:01.57 | eidolarr | i'm trying to show a bonus where people wouldn't want to accept a handicap to one where they would |
| 02:02.00 | Cide | Dagmar, from an outside standpoint, yes |
| 02:02.35 | Cide | obviously you wouldn't find it fun to cannon rush or be cannon rushed every single game, despite winning half of them |
| 02:02.49 | Cide | but the matchmaking system only deals with games as a black box -- win or lose -- and that's the most fair way to do it |
| 02:02.49 | Shirik | I find it fun to be cannon rushed |
| 02:02.53 | Cide | me too |
| 02:02.57 | Cide | but not every single game |
| 02:03.05 | Dagmar | fair != fun |
| 02:03.07 | Shirik | because then I'm like "you are a moron. You just cannon rushed a terran player. Now I moved my base, you have nothing, and did nothing but waste 30 seconds of my time." |
| 02:03.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Cide@hus110a.bobbnet.com) |
| 02:03.16 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 02:03.20 | Cide | my client crashed |
| 02:03.28 | Shirik | (19:02:54) (@Shirik) because then I'm like "you are a moron. You just cannon rushed a terran player. Now I moved my base, you have nothing, and did nothing but waste 30 seconds of my time." |
| 02:03.42 | Cide | Dagmar, fair is not fun, yes, but it's the best way to measure fun |
| 02:03.51 | Cide | from the matchmaking POV |
| 02:04.08 | Jerub | Shirik: i <3 it when i get canon rushed as a terran |
| 02:04.26 | Jerub | it means they're calmly wasting all their money while i build up my MMM + 3 sieges. |
| 02:04.33 | Cide | Shirik, AT is when you get a party going and queue up for a 2v2 or 3v3 or whatever |
| 02:04.36 | Kraps | Shirik: describe a cannon rush pl0z |
| 02:04.39 | eidolarr | I guess my bottom line is that many people see the advantage of being AT as something innate that violates the integrity of the RT brackets, much like giving more health to lower ranked players' units might |
| 02:04.39 | Jerub | i blow the canons to smithers with sieges from high ground and then kill them soundly. |
| 02:04.41 | Cide | random team is when you queue up alone and get matched with random allies |
| 02:04.48 | Shirik | what does AT stand for? |
| 02:04.51 | eidolarr | arranged team |
| 02:04.51 | Cide | Arranged Team |
| 02:04.52 | Jerub | Shirik: Arranged Team |
| 02:04.54 | Dagmar | Shirik: "Arranged Teams" |
| 02:04.57 | eidolarr | BAM winner |
| 02:04.59 | Cide | Shirik, Arranged Team |
| 02:05.00 | Shirik | I heard it was arranged team |
| 02:05.01 | Jerub | but it should be AT and ST |
| 02:05.02 | Cide | <Cide> Arranged Team |
| 02:05.02 | Cide | <eidolarr> arranged team |
| 02:05.07 | eidolarr | no |
| 02:05.08 | eidolarr | NO |
| 02:05.18 | eidolarr | need an impartial observer |
| 02:05.18 | Cide | and I even had initial caps |
| 02:05.23 | Jerub | so we can talk about AT-AT and AT-ST |
| 02:05.38 | Shirik | (19:04:47) (@Shirik) I heard it was arranged team (19:04:48) (+Cide) Arranged Team |
| 02:05.41 | Dagmar | Shirik: Think of it like queueing up for a 5v5 arena match, where you've never met any of the other four people before, but _occasionally_ the system is going to match your team up against an established 5v5 time who've been working together awhil |
| 02:05.42 | Cide | BOOM |
| 02:06.09 | eidolarr | fuck |
| 02:06.09 | Dagmar | Jerub: There is only ATDT |
| 02:06.10 | Cide | but you still win against said established 5v5 team half the time |
| 02:06.16 | Shirik | sucks to be you |
| 02:06.20 | Cide | does that mean it's not fun to play against them? |
| 02:06.20 | Shirik | get an arranged team |
| 02:06.24 | Cide | NO |
| 02:06.25 | Cide | WAIT |
| 02:06.29 | Cide | Shirik, you still win against them half the time. |
| 02:06.38 | Shirik | sucks to be them |
| 02:06.42 | Shirik | you should still make an arranged team |
| 02:06.43 | eidolarr | so like they are balls |
| 02:06.50 | Cide | arranged team play is more fun, definitely |
| 02:06.56 | eidolarr | that kind of game is fun but only sometimes |
| 02:07.01 | Cide | but that's not with the discussion is about |
| 02:07.07 | eidolarr | like playing against a baddy premade with a decent pug in wow |
| 02:07.37 | Cide | anyway, day9 daily starting up so I'm tired of this shit |
| 02:07.42 | Cide | still haven't seen your proof Dagmar |
| 02:07.46 | Shirik | day9 daily? |
| 02:07.48 | Cide | anticipating it highly |
| 02:07.53 | Cide | www.day9.tv |
| 02:08.02 | Shirik | meh |
| 02:08.28 | eidolarr | wow is kind of interesting to investigate, i don't think most pugs would choose to fight premades even with 50% win rate |
| 02:08.32 | Kraps | Shirik: i'm watching http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/3732340/ great for noobs |
| 02:08.37 | Cide | wow is not interesting to investigate |
| 02:08.49 | Cide | because gear is a factor, not only skill |
| 02:08.49 | eidolarr | it is at least a little interesting |
| 02:08.59 | Cide | and class distribution |
| 02:08.59 | eidolarr | sure sure but we're talking about matchmaking vaule not skill |
| 02:09.00 | Dagmar | He must be pretty high to make his audio lag like that |
| 02:09.13 | eidolarr | it just happens that in sc2 it's directly derived from skill and maybe a little bit race balance |
| 02:09.18 | Kraps | doas everyone do that thing? |
| 02:09.25 | Kraps | the macro |
| 02:09.32 | Kraps | i mean |
| 02:09.33 | Cide | eidolarr, and that's why sc2 is a much better example |
| 02:09.36 | *** join/#wowuidev sc0tty (~scottydro@97.102.237.120) |
| 02:09.40 | Cide | and why RT vs AT is fair |
| 02:09.41 | Dagmar | Kraps: What macro |
| 02:09.49 | Cide | and equally fun as AT vs AT and RT vs RT |
| 02:09.58 | Cide | well |
| 02:10.00 | eidolarr | skill isn't really an important part of the argument though |
| 02:10.01 | Cide | until Dagmar proves me wrong |
| 02:10.04 | Kraps | macro management |
| 02:10.10 | eidolarr | it's really matchmaking rating |
| 02:10.17 | eidolarr | counterbalance coordination with higher matchmaking rating |
| 02:10.22 | Cide | yes... |
| 02:10.24 | eidolarr | i don't see how skill makes it a better example |
| 02:10.33 | Cide | because coordination boosts your skill |
| 02:10.39 | Cide | your team skill, that is |
| 02:10.48 | eidolarr | how is that less true in wow? |
| 02:10.50 | Cide | whereas individual skill also boosts team skill |
| 02:11.10 | Cide | replace team skill with "team power" |
| 02:11.18 | Cide | and add in "gear boosts team power" |
| 02:11.28 | eidolarr | maybe skill has a lesser effect on your matchmaking rating in wow, that just means the random players have to be that much better |
| 02:11.31 | Cide | and you have an obvious difference |
| 02:11.34 | eidolarr | i don't see how it makes it a worse example |
| 02:11.41 | Cide | because you get stuff like instagibbing |
| 02:11.43 | eidolarr | difference sure, different constants |
| 02:11.43 | Dagmar | add a helping of bonus points just because you do better working with people you've worked with before |
| 02:11.44 | Cide | sc2 is inherently mirrored |
| 02:12.04 | Cide | and instagibbing is not fun |
| 02:12.13 | Cide | you can do wow as an example too |
| 02:12.16 | eidolarr | what if you still win 50% of them? |
| 02:12.23 | Cide | then it's even and fair |
| 02:12.38 | Cide | arguably less fun because instagibbing for example is among the worst things in life |
| 02:12.40 | Dagmar | Now we're back to coin tosses |
| 02:12.41 | eidolarr | but do you think the pugs would want to q up and fight another similarly skilled premade? |
| 02:12.43 | Cide | no we're not |
| 02:12.48 | Dagmar | When fun ceases to figure in, then it's a coin toss. |
| 02:12.57 | Cide | nope |
| 02:13.00 | eidolarr | yeah but beating a team that can instagib |
| 02:13.00 | Dagmar | Oh yes. |
| 02:13.01 | Yssaril | looks like the new launcher is here the downloader from battlenet is downloading a new installer (installer is 658MB instead of 20ish) |
| 02:13.02 | eidolarr | that is pretty gratifying |
| 02:13.19 | Cide | it's only a coin toss if the only thing you care about is the message "YOU WIN" popping up |
| 02:13.29 | Cide | then you can replace the entire game part with a coin flip |
| 02:13.31 | eidolarr | i am pretty sure he is trolling you dude |
| 02:13.39 | Cide | yep, but I'm not trolling |
| 02:13.47 | Cide | so I'm being the better person |
| 02:13.48 | sc0tty | i apologize if this is against the channel rules, i run the website guildzilla.com, and we are currently looking for an addon developer or two for some ongoing projects, if anyone is interested toss me a msg :) |
| 02:13.50 | Xyphoid | the coin toss analogy was absolutely not a troll |
| 02:13.58 | Cide | no, but it was fucking stupid nonetheless |
| 02:14.00 | eidolarr | maybe not the first time |
| 02:14.06 | eidolarr | but it has been addressed like 5 times now |
| 02:14.07 | Dagmar | Not a troll. |
| 02:14.12 | Cide | ok, just stupid then |
| 02:14.22 | Cide | I give up on you |
| 02:14.26 | Cide | afk day9 |
| 02:15.02 | foxlit | What are you arguing about, anyway? |
| 02:15.06 | Xyphoid | basically, as far as i can tell your argument is 'people who complain about RT vs AT are wrong because they're complaining about imbalance' |
| 02:15.10 | Dagmar | If fair/even override whether or not fun matters, then how much complexity you add to the coin toss doesn't matter. It's still a coin toss. |
| 02:15.17 | Kraps | foxlit: who should do your mom |
| 02:15.33 | foxlit | Kraps: she's occupied with your mom. |
| 02:15.41 | Xyphoid | and i'm saying 'imbalance has nothing to do with it, they're talking about the content of the game feeling different, even if it's still 50-50 win chance due to scaling' |
| 02:16.09 | Xyphoid | because responding to a complaint about a game not being fun by extensively arguing that it's 50-50 win chance is not sufficient |
| 02:17.15 | Cide | popping in |
| 02:17.19 | kd3 | ooh. I almost tagged 'phishing' the latest email from blizz "New World of Warcraft: Cataclysm Beta Client Available" |
| 02:17.34 | Cide | Dagmar, you have never given any reason why it is inherently less fun |
| 02:17.45 | Cide | popping out |
| 02:17.46 | Dagmar | Fun doesn't need reason. |
| 02:17.48 | foxlit | Likewise, there's no reason why it should be fun :) |
| 02:18.04 | Dagmar | All fun needs is a few teenage girls and a bottle of schnapps and it'll happen on it's own |
| 02:18.06 | Cide | there's no reason it should be any less fun than AT vs AT or RT vs RT |
| 02:18.18 | Dagmar | Sure there is |
| 02:18.25 | Cide | that's what I just asked about |
| 02:18.27 | Dagmar | There's an imbalance not present in the other modes. |
| 02:18.32 | Cide | <Cide> Dagmar, you have never given any reason why it is inherently less fun |
| 02:18.35 | Cide | wow |
| 02:18.43 | Dagmar | It doesn't matter if the thing comes out in the aggregate, it's the individual matches that matter. |
| 02:18.56 | Cide | ... |
| 02:19.00 | Cide | individual matches are even |
| 02:19.06 | foxlit | Personally, I don't see how you can matchmake for random teams at all. |
| 02:19.07 | Dagmar | No matter how it's handicapped, those two sets of people are playing different games in a sense. |
| 02:19.36 | Dagmar | foxlit: Hey at least there everyone has a chance of being matched with someone who just polished off their twelfth bong hit |
| 02:19.38 | foxlit | Individual performance varies greatly depending on who else is doing what on your team; good luck measuring effective contribution to figure out whether you personally lost or carried your team. |
| 02:19.40 | Dagmar | ...and don't tell me that doesn't happen |
| 02:19.42 | Cide | foxlit, that's a non-issue |
| 02:19.46 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI (~chatzilla@ip68-5-216-156.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 02:19.58 | kd3 | yay |
| 02:20.05 | kd3 | the installer is from a recent build |
| 02:20.05 | Cide | if you consistently play consistently skilled opponents and you consistently win half the games, it is even |
| 02:20.18 | Cide | and in my opinion also equally fun |
| 02:20.20 | Dagmar | No, it's only statistically even. |
| 02:20.27 | foxlit | At the same time, it could be matching you with idiots half the time |
| 02:20.29 | Cide | yes, this is science |
| 02:20.31 | foxlit | And matching you with pros the other |
| 02:20.36 | Cide | foxlit, no. |
| 02:20.38 | Xyphoid | but didn't we start from the point of people not finding it fun |
| 02:20.40 | foxlit | No? |
| 02:20.40 | Dagmar | Causality doesn't necessarily go in both directions |
| 02:20.48 | foxlit | That'd come out 50-50 too. |
| 02:20.50 | Dagmar | ...cuz it's _causality_. |
| 02:20.52 | Cide | ....... |
| 02:20.57 | Cide | if you want to argue please follow the discussion |
| 02:21.17 | Cide | <Shirik> play someone 500 levels above you followed by someone 500 levels below you |
| 02:21.18 | Cide | <Shirik> over and over gain |
| 02:21.18 | Cide | <Shirik> this will not be fun |
| 02:21.19 | Cide | <Shirik> but it is a 50-50 win rate |
| 02:21.25 | Cide | <Cide> <Cide> I claimed that even games are the most fun |
| 02:21.25 | Cide | <Cide> <Cide> and you get the most even games when playing the same skill level over and over and having 50% win ratio doing so |
| 02:21.25 | Cide | <Cide> <Cide> that's what I claim |
| 02:21.25 | Cide | <Cide> playing the same skill level over and over and having 50% win ratio doing so |
| 02:21.26 | Cide | <Cide> highlighted for you |
| 02:21.26 | Shirik | wtf |
| 02:21.34 | Cide | yes, that's a double quote |
| 02:21.36 | Shirik | no ping me |
| 02:21.40 | Cide | because people don't read |
| 02:21.44 | Cide | sorry, casualty of war |
| 02:21.56 | Dagmar | Circular arguments are equally as un-fun. |
| 02:22.10 | Cide | where's the circular argument? |
| 02:22.24 | foxlit | "even games are even because you win them half the time" |
| 02:22.27 | Shadowed | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3222013/what-is-the-snowman-param-in-rails-3-forms-for |
| 02:22.34 | Cide | how else do you measure even, foxlit? |
| 02:22.34 | Shadowed | this is why ruby (and rails) are better than python |
| 02:22.35 | Shadowed | fyi |
| 02:22.39 | Cide | enlighten me |
| 02:22.57 | foxlit | "foxlit: Personally, I don't see how you can matchmake for random teams at all." |
| 02:23.04 | Cide | that's irrelevant |
| 02:23.15 | Cide | is it not even if you win half your games against opponents of consistent skill? |
| 02:23.28 | foxlit | You cannot measure consistent skill in this environment. |
| 02:23.33 | Cide | ... |
| 02:23.35 | Cide | you're avoid the question |
| 02:23.37 | eidolarr | I am about to start talking about wow again you better go back to day9 |
| 02:23.57 | Cide | you're saying that you cannot do blah |
| 02:24.04 | foxlit | Your question is based on assumptions I disagree with. |
| 02:24.04 | Cide | wait let's start in the other end |
| 02:24.13 | Cide | you answer with assumptions that I disagree with |
| 02:24.18 | Cide | <Cide> how else do you measure even, foxlit? |
| 02:24.19 | Cide | <foxlit> "foxlit: Personally, I don't see how you can matchmake for random teams at all." |
| 02:24.46 | Cide | why don't you address what assumptions you disagree with instead of doing the same thing then |
| 02:25.37 | eidolarr | Cide: in world of warcraft people don't have as much fun fighting premades as pugs or vice versa |
| 02:25.46 | Cide | this is not wow |
| 02:25.51 | Cide | we discussed this already |
| 02:26.00 | eidolarr | not satisfactorily |
| 02:26.00 | Cide | stick to sc2 if you have valid arguments that apply to sc2 |
| 02:26.04 | eidolarr | you said "oh gear therefore..." |
| 02:26.11 | Cide | no, I said lots of stuff |
| 02:26.12 | eidolarr | we're talking about matchmaking systems |
| 02:26.16 | Cide | if your point is valid in sc2 then talk in sc2 terms |
| 02:26.26 | eidolarr | why? it's a suitable analogy |
| 02:26.28 | eidolarr | and a live example |
| 02:26.41 | Cide | but yes, you can accurately match pugs against premades |
| 02:26.47 | Cide | for even matches!! |
| 02:26.55 | Cide | is it fun? who knows |
| 02:27.13 | Cide | I'm arguing that sc2 AT vs RT is equally fun as AT vs AT and RT vs RT, however |
| 02:27.28 | eidolarr | people don't enjoy it even if they win i find |
| 02:27.30 | Cide | foxlit is discussing whether or not that matching is even possible which is totally a different discussion |
| 02:27.37 | eidolarr | yeah it's a stupid discussion |
| 02:27.39 | eidolarr | it obviously is |
| 02:27.53 | Cide | eidolarr, it's different because wow matches are not perfectly mirrored |
| 02:28.04 | Cide | your analogy would be better if you kept it to tournament realms |
| 02:28.10 | Cide | where things *are* perfectly mirrored |
| 02:28.38 | foxlit | "Cide: I'm arguing that sc2 AT vs RT is equally fun as AT vs AT and RT vs RT, however" << Personally, I don't care whether the team I'm playing against is random or pre-made. |
| 02:28.52 | Cide | is that arging for or against my point? |
| 02:28.56 | smcn | holy cow this discussion is still going on? :P |
| 02:28.58 | Cide | I'm thinking for |
| 02:29.03 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@c-68-62-172-239.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 02:29.08 | eidolarr | incidental |
| 02:29.09 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 02:29.09 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 02:29.17 | Kraps | smcn: no, nothing to see here |
| 02:29.22 | foxlit | Probably for, yeah. |
| 02:29.22 | Kraps | ;) |
| 02:29.31 | smcn | or has it just looped around |
| 02:29.47 | eidolarr | even if the premade has worse gear (which it generally has to for the pug to win) it's not fun |
| 02:29.51 | foxlit | any sufficiently long discussion loops around as people can't be bothered to read the scrollback |
| 02:29.56 | eidolarr | besides isn't race comp sort-of anti-mirror? |
| 02:30.11 | Cide | what? |
| 02:30.27 | Cide | you can pick every race, class, gear piece and talent spec on tournament realms |
| 02:30.29 | Cide | hence mirrored |
| 02:30.32 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:31.03 | Dagmar | Register it, then file suit for misuse of your domain name. |
| 02:31.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (~Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 02:31.24 | eidolarr | race balance is an advantage to the AT in the ame way that class balance is to the premade |
| 02:31.27 | eidolarr | just to a lesser degree |
| 02:31.59 | Cide | we have to assume that all matchups are balanced |
| 02:32.04 | Cide | it would be silly not to |
| 02:32.12 | eidolarr | would it? |
| 02:32.16 | Cide | yes? |
| 02:32.24 | eidolarr | why? |
| 02:32.48 | Dagmar | Well, then if you're assuming that all matches are balanced then there's no point in any of it |
| 02:32.59 | Cide | what? |
| 02:33.05 | Dagmar | That makes the argument nice and round. Circular in fact. |
| 02:33.07 | Cide | because otherwise all game theory fails and boils down to pick terran and win |
| 02:33.21 | Kraps | i pick terran! |
| 02:33.23 | Dagmar | If all matches are balanced then they are all equally fun and fair |
| 02:33.25 | eidolarr | all races are even, that doesn't mean all matchups are |
| 02:33.35 | Cide | regardless |
| 02:33.38 | eidolarr | it's not immediately obvious to me that 4P vs a more balanced team is an innately balanced match |
| 02:33.39 | Dagmar | ...but they're _not balanced_ the moment that whole RT/AT thing comes in |
| 02:33.41 | Cide | it doesn't really matter for the discussion |
| 02:34.03 | Cide | Dagmar, why won't you provide some arguments *why* instead of just tossing in statements |
| 02:34.10 | Cide | or did you never learn how to argue? |
| 02:34.11 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI (~chatzilla@ip68-5-216-156.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 02:34.15 | Cide | I guess it doesn't really matter though |
| 02:34.16 | eidolarr | hahaha |
| 02:34.17 | Dagmar | Becuase your argument is _circular_ |
| 02:34.22 | Cide | point out why. |
| 02:34.28 | eidolarr | that is the rost rhetorical burn I have heard in awhile |
| 02:34.32 | Dagmar | Look up the definition of circular argument on Wikipedia |
| 02:34.35 | eidolarr | "or did you never learn hwo to argue?!" |
| 02:34.48 | Cide | arranged teams playing the optimal matchup would get placed higher up |
| 02:34.49 | eidolarr | it's liek soemthing from phoenix wright |
| 02:34.51 | Cide | and face better opponents |
| 02:34.55 | Dagmar | If you can't see it, it's not my responsibiliity to pick up where your parents left off. |
| 02:35.02 | Cide | oh snap |
| 02:35.21 | Cide | hence the system is stable against such imbalances, eidolarr |
| 02:35.33 | eidolarr | it's more like |
| 02:35.41 | eidolarr | RTs getting imperfect matchups |
| 02:35.46 | Cide | yes |
| 02:35.59 | Cide | but they would be placed lower in the matchmaking pool as a result |
| 02:36.14 | eidolarr | yes but due to chance |
| 02:36.15 | Cide | and the AT's playing the perfect matchup would be placed higher relatively speaking |
| 02:36.16 | eidolarr | not ability |
| 02:36.24 | Cide | sure, but the system takes care of that also |
| 02:36.47 | Cide | however it's still preferable to consider the matchups to be balanced because facing the same matchup half the time (assuming all AT's play said matchup) is less fun than playing varied matchups |
| 02:36.54 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 02:36.54 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 02:36.54 | Cide | hence why it's silly to assume the opposite |
| 02:36.56 | Dagmar | Did you get a discount for buying into so many fallacies at once? |
| 02:37.00 | eidolarr | originally I was trying to tie into the WoW point to show that class imbalance is NABD for the sake of this argument |
| 02:37.17 | eidolarr | my heart is not in this one, especially since you can get lucky and counter people even in ATvAT |
| 02:37.32 | Cide | that's also a funny retort, Dagmar |
| 02:37.38 | Cide | I'll stick to arguments though |
| 02:37.42 | Cide | instead of personal attacks |
| 02:37.42 | eidolarr | yeah that was pretty weak |
| 02:37.44 | Kraps | it was funny |
| 02:37.50 | Cide | but feel free to continue |
| 02:37.50 | eidolarr | idk i am still loving the "or did you never learn to argue?!" |
| 02:38.00 | Cide | you're paraphrasing |
| 02:38.02 | Cide | there was no "!" |
| 02:38.08 | eidolarr | accentuating! |
| 02:38.17 | Cide | whatever |
| 02:38.19 | Cide | I'm swedish |
| 02:39.19 | eidolarr | I think there is something to the argument that people just don't enjoy fighting ATvRT as much as ATvAT, much like pugvpug or premadevpremade |
| 02:39.19 | Dagmar | "<Cide> or did you never learn how to argue?" <-- looks like a personal attack to me |
| 02:39.26 | Dagmar | Don't dish it if ya can't take it |
| 02:39.29 | eidolarr | the most interesting response is "it doesn't matter, black box" |
| 02:39.37 | eidolarr | DAGMAR DID YOU JUST SCROLL UP FOR THAT |
| 02:39.39 | Cide | Dagmar, indeed, I fell down to your level |
| 02:39.41 | eidolarr | BECAUSE I HAD YOU COVERED BUDDY |
| 02:39.42 | Cide | oh no I did it again! |
| 02:40.05 | Dagmar | You keep arguing that because the aggregate statistics come out even that the matches are fair |
| 02:40.08 | Dagmar | This is nonsense. |
| 02:40.11 | Cide | however I've been sticking to arguments in general whereas you just toss out statements and never back them up with why |
| 02:40.15 | Dagmar | It is arguing from the general to the particular. |
| 02:40.15 | Cide | no |
| 02:40.15 | Xyphoid | crying about personal attacks when you started out with the THAT'S A FUCKING STUPID ARGUMENT line is funny |
| 02:40.32 | Thunder_Child | hmm...the new downloader doesnt seem to be any different |
| 02:40.33 | Dagmar | You've been arguing that the matched players must be of equal skill because the system picked them. |
| 02:40.40 | eidolarr | guys we need to be honest with ourselves here once and for all |
| 02:40.43 | eidolarr | the coin thing was fucking stupid |
| 02:40.45 | Dagmar | This is also hilariously circular once it's tied to that other argument. |
| 02:40.47 | eidolarr | lets put it in the past |
| 02:40.50 | Cide | I'm arging that individual matches are even if aggregate statistics are even *IF ALL OPPONENTS ARE OF SIMILAR SKILL LEVEL* |
| 02:41.33 | Cide | if you never understood that part then yeah... I feel for ya |
| 02:41.37 | Cide | I'm on a roll |
| 02:41.39 | Dagmar | The individual players are not all that matters the moment _team cooperation is involved_ |
| 02:41.43 | Dagmar | Which you keep ignoring. |
| 02:41.47 | Cide | who talked about individual players? |
| 02:41.50 | Cide | I'm talking about team skill |
| 02:42.15 | Dagmar | So explain to us how people who've never worked together are supposed to be equal to people who have |
| 02:42.33 | Dagmar | You've yet to even go near that argument. |
| 02:42.35 | Cide | because the random players are matched against individually less skilled arranged opponents |
| 02:42.38 | Cide | yes I have, several times |
| 02:42.43 | Cide | I wonder if it's still in my scrollback |
| 02:42.53 | Cide | alestane, can you post it otherwise? we discussed it at length |
| 02:42.54 | Dagmar | And you can't see that you yourself are right then and there saying that the players are not equal |
| 02:42.58 | eidolarr | Cide: The notion that ATvAT or RTvRT are more fun, while not proven, is worth considering and can't be completely dismissed, especially in light of WoW, that's all I'm saying |
| 02:43.01 | Dagmar | Screw this |
| 02:43.07 | Cide | eidolarr, it can't |
| 02:43.14 | Cide | I've asked for Dagmar to provide his readily available proof |
| 02:43.37 | Cide | I believe it not to be the case but I don't have any arguments beside "it's even" |
| 02:43.40 | eidolarr | Dagmar: he's saying that a RT will overcome the "never worked together" by being better at the game, and that in that light you can rank them both on the same ladder |
| 02:43.40 | Xyphoid | you're asking for proofs about what people find more fun, seriously |
| 02:43.51 | eidolarr | Dagmar: where the rank is really the "team" object not the "player" |
| 02:43.52 | Cide | Xyphoid, no, I'm asking for Dagmar to provide what he said he had |
| 02:44.05 | Cide | eidolarr, not same ladder; same matchmaking pool |
| 02:44.08 | Cide | the ladders are separate |
| 02:44.09 | eidolarr | yeah, right |
| 02:44.13 | eidolarr | matchmaking system |
| 02:44.23 | eidolarr | hey isn't that a little weird? |
| 02:44.29 | eidolarr | in AT it's natural to rank the team as the whole |
| 02:44.31 | eidolarr | not so much so for TR |
| 02:44.32 | eidolarr | RT |
| 02:44.37 | Cide | not much to do about it |
| 02:44.59 | eidolarr | it may cause problems |
| 02:45.02 | Cide | in fact, see Heroes of Newerth for a good example of why I'm right |
| 02:45.06 | Cide | in that game it's 5v5 |
| 02:45.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Archarodim (HydraIRC@lev92-4-88-164-134-95.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 02:45.09 | eidolarr | maybe it's difficult to predict combined RT team value |
| 02:45.10 | Dagmar | eidolarr: either way he's too thick to realize there's no way to predict how well player A and player C will work together based on how well A or C did with any other players |
| 02:45.19 | Cide | sure it is; player skill |
| 02:45.37 | eidolarr | Dagmar: that's what I'm getting at but honestly they're doing pretty good at predicting it |
| 02:45.46 | Cide | naturally |
| 02:45.50 | Cide | let's see the HoN example |
| 02:45.58 | eidolarr | Cide: yeah but player skill doesn't work that well when you get along great with half the palyesr and horrible with others |
| 02:46.01 | eidolarr | I hanve't played HoN |
| 02:46.02 | Dagmar | eidolarr: Might as well say to hell with teams and just start counting kills and at the end of hte match, pick pairs of people to group together and decide who wins based on which pair had the highest score |
| 02:46.09 | Dagmar | Let's not, since HoN is shit |
| 02:46.10 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 02:46.10 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 02:46.17 | Kraps | eidolarr: idk, people on the forums are whining about matchmaking a lot |
| 02:46.20 | Cide | we're only discussing the matchmaking system |
| 02:46.23 | Cide | in HoN you can play arranged vs random |
| 02:46.30 | eidolarr | Dagmar: that's not fair to blizzard, their matchmaking systems are generally pretty damn sharp |
| 02:46.43 | Kraps | that and custom maps |
| 02:46.48 | Dagmar | Jus tthat both RT and AT fans are together, saying that this is a problem should be a sign that ther'es something to it |
| 02:47.03 | eidolarr | Kraps: in SC2 RTvAT? |
| 02:47.07 | Cide | no, the vocal minority say it's a problem |
| 02:47.22 | Cide | poll the in-game players if you want to know if the majority think it's a problem |
| 02:47.37 | Dagmar | eidolarr: Yeah but even they have the sense to acknowledge that this is a "close enough" solution, not the completely fine thing with no difference between pure AT/AT and RT/RT that Cide has talked himself into |
| 02:47.59 | Kraps | eidolarr: that and other modes |
| 02:48.01 | Dagmar | Things which are not comparable can not be considered equal. |
| 02:48.08 | Cide | in HoN the balance is determined by all players' individual skill rating |
| 02:48.14 | Dagmar | Nonsense. |
| 02:48.27 | Cide | and despite allowing RT vs AT they predict the outcome pretty damn well |
| 02:48.28 | Dagmar | It's mainly determined by who memorized what order to run to each place. |
| 02:48.41 | eidolarr | Dagmar: the question is whether you can evaluate the matchmaking value of being a pre-arranged team and equate it to a random team, current live evidence suggests you can, the question isn't whether the matches are balanced but whether they sacrifice something core to RT or AT gameplay |
| 02:48.45 | Cide | if it says 50 vs 50 it is generally a quite even game |
| 02:48.58 | Cide | <Dagmar> Things which are not comparable can not be considered equal. |
| 02:49.02 | Dagmar | eidolarr: I've yet to see evidence that you can do that |
| 02:49.02 | Cide | which things are not comparable? |
| 02:49.07 | eidolarr | Kraps: is it too loose? |
| 02:49.13 | eidolarr | Dagmar: try SC2, it works surprisingly well |
| 02:49.18 | Dagmar | eidolarr: I've played it |
| 02:49.19 | Cide | oh SNAP |
| 02:49.23 | Cide | apparently not? |
| 02:49.27 | Cide | <Dagmar> eidolarr: I've yet to see evidence that you can do that |
| 02:49.31 | Kraps | no idea, you can probably get both side |
| 02:49.58 | Dagmar | that the game exists doesn't prove your point |
| 02:50.02 | Dagmar | Put down the bong already |
| 02:50.12 | Cide | I was trolling actually |
| 02:50.22 | Dagmar | I have YET to be arguing about whether or not this crap averages out |
| 02:50.24 | Dagmar | Clearly it does |
| 02:50.36 | Cide | but the sc2 model does work surprisingly well in terms of matching RT vs AT evenly |
| 02:50.37 | Dagmar | What it doesn't do is result in a match that is _as fun_ as one which is only RT/RT or only AT/AT |
| 02:50.51 | Dagmar | That it has to be handicapped should be a good indicator that fun is coming in second |
| 02:50.52 | Cide | and you have never brought up a single argument as to why it is inherently less fun |
| 02:51.06 | Cide | it isn't handicapped. |
| 02:51.11 | eidolarr | Dagmar: play it a lot you'll se it's mostly fun |
| 02:51.27 | eidolarr | anyway i am out guys, fun talk, you would have more fun with the internet if you took it less personally |
| 02:51.38 | Kraps | what! |
| 02:51.39 | Dagmar | Yes, I have. You've just been too thick to do anything other than keep chasing your circular rebuttals. "It's fair because it comes out to being 50-50 which is how we know it's fair after we fudge the rankings to make it 50-50" |
| 02:51.40 | kd3 | internet? not personal? |
| 02:51.42 | kd3 | hahaha |
| 02:51.43 | Cide | I'm not taking it personally though |
| 02:51.48 | Cide | I'm just bashing Dagmar personally |
| 02:51.51 | Kraps | the internet is srs bssnss |
| 02:52.00 | eidolarr | Cide: rofl can i save that quote |
| 02:52.06 | Cide | sure |
| 02:52.10 | Dagmar | ...which is why it might as well be a coin toss. |
| 02:52.15 | eidolarr | hahaha |
| 02:52.19 | eidolarr | you guys are awesome |
| 02:52.21 | eidolarr | cya |
| 02:52.21 | Cide | how is it fudging the rankings? |
| 02:52.21 | Kraps | eidolarr: http://xkcd.com/386/ |
| 02:52.21 | Dagmar | Little kids just love coin tosses |
| 02:52.29 | Cide | you're paraphrasing me |
| 02:52.48 | Dagmar | Cide: If it's having to match players of perceieved higher RT rank against AT groups, that's fudging |
| 02:52.52 | Cide | and boiling down to personal attacks that all but convince me I'm right |
| 02:53.02 | Dagmar | Hypocrite. |
| 02:53.03 | Cide | it matches equal rank vs equal rank |
| 02:53.12 | Dagmar | "Try playing the game Dagmar" |
| 02:53.12 | Cide | that's fact |
| 02:53.21 | Cide | sure, it's definitely hypocritical |
| 02:53.24 | Dagmar | Into the ignore list with you. This is a waste of my time |
| 02:53.27 | Cide | but in the interim I actually provide arguments |
| 02:53.37 | Cide | sweet, does that mean you stop spouting nonsense? |
| 02:53.39 | kd3 | looks for more popcorn |
| 02:53.56 | Kraps | gives kd3 some |
| 02:53.56 | Cide | can we have an all-channel "who won?" vote? |
| 02:54.12 | Kraps | no |
| 02:54.19 | Cide | I vote for myself which I declare legal |
| 02:54.23 | Cide | any other takers? |
| 02:54.52 | Kraps | hey look, underpants! |
| 02:54.57 | Cide | oh come on |
| 02:55.00 | Cide | be boring |
| 02:56.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (~Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:56.20 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 02:56.20 | Kraps | hey look, paint drying! |
| 02:56.30 | Cide | damn you Iriel |
| 02:56.39 | Iriel | ?? |
| 02:56.48 | Cide | I now realize I missed your insight into our past.... "argument" |
| 02:57.03 | Cide | coming in right after it's over! |
| 02:57.51 | Cide | we discussed whether or not arranged team versus random team matches (in starcraft 2) can be matched evenly |
| 02:57.57 | Cide | and whether or not they are inherently less fun or not |
| 02:58.06 | Cide | s/fun or not/fun/ |
| 02:58.25 | Iriel | Hm, I remember seeing that conversation going on yesterday while I was idling |
| 02:58.43 | Cide | yes; some controversy regarding blizzard matching AT vs RT teams in the same pool on the sc2 forums |
| 02:59.57 | Iriel | It struck me that if they managed to get the balancing characteristics correct, it'd be more fun than 'normal' for the RT if they win, and less fun than 'normal' if they lost. |
| 03:00.40 | Cide | well, my argument is that the best a matchmaking system can do is provide even games, from an objective standpoint |
| 03:00.49 | Iriel | Blizzard's statistics argument speaks to the "challenge" of the encounter, but not the perceived fun-ness. |
| 03:01.00 | Iriel | Well, yes and no. |
| 03:01.08 | Cide | (for the individual I'm sure winning 65-35 is more fun than 50-50) |
| 03:01.11 | Iriel | I dont think the perception can truly be discounted |
| 03:01.37 | Iriel | But that's a horribly subjective factor |
| 03:01.44 | Cide | I don't know |
| 03:02.52 | Cide | given a 50-50 win ratio against opponents of consistent skill (as a random team facing AT opponents), I don't think there would be any difference in perception versus, say, AT vs AT or RT vs RT |
| 03:02.59 | Iriel | Consider showing up for a battle with a randomly assigned stranger, and having your ass completely kicked by 2 highly coordinated and obviously practiced players. |
| 03:03.14 | Cide | yes, that's an issue, but that's a failure of the matchmaking system |
| 03:03.21 | Cide | not of the game mode |
| 03:03.22 | Iriel | Consider having the same defeat versus two skillful but randomly assigned players. |
| 03:03.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Kivnel (Kivnel@23.213.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 03:03.31 | Iriel | You'll feel much more angry at the first defeat than the latter |
| 03:03.41 | Cide | possibly but I'm not convinced |
| 03:03.48 | Iriel | The first has an air of "that's not fair", but the second feels like a fair loss |
| 03:04.10 | Cide | I don't think either game would feel fair if you are severely outclassed in both games |
| 03:04.15 | Iriel | I think the amplification works in the opposite direction too, it's a greater sense of accomplishment to defeat a trained pair with a random partner |
| 03:04.33 | Cide | if the games are even though, I don't think you can tell the difference |
| 03:04.38 | Iriel | but I suspect the "bad" feeling has a greater differential than the "good" feeling. |
| 03:04.42 | Dagmar | Either way arguing that it's the same just because the aggregate statistics still come out even is madness. |
| 03:05.04 | Iriel | True, I was using extremes because they're more obvious. |
| 03:05.06 | Cide | say the matchmaking system matches perfectly, so each game can wind up in either team's favor |
| 03:05.15 | Iriel | My point is that I believe there's a perception difference for most people. |
| 03:05.26 | Cide | I agree in the extremes case |
| 03:05.35 | Cide | I disagree if the match is even |
| 03:05.38 | alestane | Perception is somewhat relevant here. Someone who gets wrecked in WoW by three shammies will not necessarily feel wronged if they're moving and acting separately (after all three on one is a losing fight), but if they're tightly grouped and casting in synchrony,or otherwise look like they're multi-boxing, he feels shafted because the one other player had an "unfair" advantage. |
| 03:05.40 | Iriel | If I'm in a RT that loses to an AT, I feel MORE bad than having lost to an RT than I would feel MORE good if i'd beaten tjem |
| 03:05.54 | Cide | indeed, but in sc2 you can't tell the difference in-game |
| 03:05.55 | alestane | It's swingier, Iriel. |
| 03:05.57 | Iriel | alestane: exactly |
| 03:06.02 | alestane | Wider deviation. |
| 03:06.14 | alestane | Same average, but wider spread. |
| 03:06.19 | Cide | if the game is even I don't think you can tell the difference in-game, is what I'm saying |
| 03:06.25 | Iriel | I think there's a bias to the spread though |
| 03:06.31 | Iriel | A loss stings more |
| 03:06.40 | Iriel | to most people |
| 03:06.46 | alestane | People tend to notice severe losses more than extreme successes. |
| 03:06.47 | Cide | yeah, which is why 65-35 wins would likely be preferable in a perfect world |
| 03:06.55 | Cide | but we all know that's not doable for the whole population |
| 03:07.26 | Cide | my thought is that if the game is even, the random team players would end up having higher individual skill to compensate for the increase in coordination of the AT |
| 03:07.43 | Cide | and that would remove the sense of imbalance |
| 03:07.46 | Iriel | I think I'm arguing that the current system doesn't FEEL fair, even though I'm absolutely convinced it could actually BE fair |
| 03:07.47 | alestane | Or if they're losing more, they'll drop down the ranks to fight on more even footing. |
| 03:08.18 | Cide | Iriel, are you arguing from the standpoint of uneven or even matches? |
| 03:08.42 | Cide | I believe the former to be a failure of the matchmaking system, not the game mode |
| 03:09.01 | Iriel | I'm saying that it's irrelevant that the matchmaking system is really producing even matches (I'm assuming they got that part right) |
| 03:09.20 | Iriel | people playing in random teams will perceive unfairness |
| 03:09.29 | alestane | I think he's arguing that people often have a natural bias to feel that circumstances are less fair than they actually are, and that this is more pronounced when the extremes are more divergent. |
| 03:09.30 | Iriel | because they'll magnify their anger if they lose |
| 03:09.34 | Cide | my opinion is that if matches are even then they will not perceive unfairness because the games are even |
| 03:09.48 | alestane | They will, though. It's not rational. |
| 03:09.53 | Cide | if a game is even you can't really tell that the opponents are arranged because your skill compensates for their coordination |
| 03:09.56 | Iriel | Cide: The forum thread disproves your theory |
| 03:10.02 | Iriel | Cide: unless you also think the matchmaker isnt working |
| 03:10.12 | Cide | I don't know if it is or isn't |
| 03:10.34 | Cide | but I think the forum thread is full of people hearing about it and not understanding the matchmaking system |
| 03:10.46 | Cide | and raging without really experiencing it in action |
| 03:10.48 | Iriel | there was certainly some of that yesterday |
| 03:10.50 | Iriel | for sure |
| 03:11.06 | Iriel | My point was perhaps more philosophical |
| 03:11.09 | Cide | and probably some matchmaking failures |
| 03:11.13 | alestane | People often get wound up about things because of how they sound. |
| 03:11.15 | Cide | that result in angry posts |
| 03:11.31 | Yssaril | anyone have a diff yet? |
| 03:11.42 | kd3 | I'm ~33% done downloading the initial installer |
| 03:11.46 | kd3 | was at work most of today |
| 03:11.52 | Cide | because the first thing you do as a random team that gets faced with a much better arranged team is to go to the forums |
| 03:11.57 | Cide | and see that post |
| 03:12.11 | Yssaril | kd3: how much time left? |
| 03:12.27 | kd3 | hopefully not too horribly long |
| 03:12.32 | kd3 | remember that I've a crap net connection |
| 03:12.42 | Cide | but there could be a perception difference in even matches also, I don't know |
| 03:12.44 | Iriel | Cide: Given your feeling, should AT and RT be in the same ladder, just with a "handicap" for RT'? |
| 03:12.57 | Cide | ha, we discussed that before you joined |
| 03:13.01 | kd3 | thankfully I'm letting my real bittorrent client get the data rather than blizz's pathetic one |
| 03:13.10 | Cide | I think it's probably better to stick to a common matchmaking pool |
| 03:13.14 | Cide | and separate ladders |
| 03:13.24 | Cide | simply because of uncontrollable factors for RT such as race composition |
| 03:13.31 | Cide | which the matchmaking system can handle but not the ladders |
| 03:13.46 | Iriel | Why? |
| 03:13.47 | Yssaril | kd3: how do you extract the torrent? |
| 03:13.57 | Cide | you would likely see all ladders being topped by arranged teams otherwise which would further sound the unfair-alarm |
| 03:14.03 | Iriel | If the matchmaking system can succesfully balance RT and AT, surely it can handle race combos? |
| 03:14.07 | kd3 | www.wowwiki.com/Blizzard_Downloader |
| 03:14.12 | Cide | it can, certainly |
| 03:14.17 | kd3 | there should be a link to WoWTorrentEx at the bottom of the page |
| 03:14.42 | Iriel | This is where my knowledge of the EXACT decomposition of the ladders and pool is weak |
| 03:14.56 | Cide | ladders are split between AT and RT teams |
| 03:14.58 | Iriel | but does an AT in 2v2 get to pick their pair of races? |
| 03:15.03 | Cide | yes |
| 03:15.05 | Iriel | and similarly does an RT? |
| 03:15.15 | Cide | no, they only pick their own race and get a random buddy with a random race |
| 03:15.32 | Cide | and besides |
| 03:15.39 | Cide | AT are ranked by team ranking |
| 03:15.44 | Cide | RT is naturally ranked by personal ranking |
| 03:16.13 | Cide | so it would be strange to combine ladders just for that |
| 03:16.34 | Iriel | I dunno, I just find any argument that says "it's okay to match AT and RT but they can't possibly share a ladder" is a bit wierd |
| 03:16.42 | Cide | oh, they can |
| 03:16.56 | Cide | I was arguing from a game design point of view |
| 03:17.25 | Cide | hypothetically I don't think it would lead to any balance issues except at the very top of the diamond league |
| 03:18.00 | Cide | where the benefits of arranged teams would likely mean they can only face other arranged teams in even battles |
| 03:18.18 | Cide | other than that I don't see it being an issue besides design issues |
| 03:18.54 | Iriel | So if you're playing an RT and lose points from a battle with an AT you wouldn't feel cheated? |
| 03:19.17 | Cide | not if I perceived the game as even |
| 03:19.38 | Cide | or fair I guess is a better word |
| 03:19.49 | alestane | But that will stop many people from perceiving the game as even in the first place. |
| 03:19.52 | Iriel | Lets also assume you and your partner have the worst possible race combination against your foe |
| 03:19.58 | Cide | alestane, I disagree |
| 03:20.05 | alestane | It will stop you. |
| 03:20.09 | Iriel | Since you dont get to control that, and your best matched partner and you might happen to pick a bad combo |
| 03:20.16 | alestane | But most people are, for lack of a kinder word, DUMB. |
| 03:20.24 | Iriel | I dont think it's even dumb |
| 03:20.38 | Cide | Iriel, well, in starcraft 2 the matchups are very close to even |
| 03:20.41 | Iriel | I'm not dumb, but I wouldn't feel it was fair -- people are INSTINCTIVE |
| 03:20.49 | Iriel | moreso than DUMB |
| 03:20.55 | Iriel | and instinct isn't very objective much of the time |
| 03:21.01 | Cide | indeed |
| 03:21.07 | Cide | let's address Iriel first |
| 03:21.36 | Cide | Iriel, I don't think the race matchup will be anything but an extremely minor factor in deciding the outcome |
| 03:22.36 | Cide | the published figures by blizzard about halfway through beta showed it was about 51-49 at worst except one matchup which I'm guessing they have corrected since |
| 03:23.04 | Cide | so I don't think race matchup will throw off the matchmaker |
| 03:23.25 | Cide | if it did I agree it would feel unfair however |
| 03:24.13 | Cide | alestane, if the game is even (i.e. the matchmaker consider both teams to be of equal skill) then I argue that the individual skill of the RT is higher than that of the AT |
| 03:25.04 | alestane | Probably. But what does that have to do with the price of tea in China? |
| 03:25.11 | Cide | the matchmaker will do a continuously better job at matching people as more games are played, so I don't think it'll end up in a negative feedback loop |
| 03:25.30 | Cide | alestane, no idea, but I'm sure the price in korea went down as a result of decreased demand since the 27th |
| 03:25.53 | alestane | The point that I think Irieal and I have been arguing is that it doesn't matter one whit how fair the matchmaker actually succeeds in being. |
| 03:26.13 | Cide | I don't see why that is |
| 03:26.36 | Cide | I think I would perceive games as fair if I have a 50% chance of winning, arranged opponent or not |
| 03:26.41 | alestane | Because many players won't form their opinions rationally or objectively. |
| 03:26.51 | Cide | that's not objectively, that's instinctively |
| 03:27.00 | alestane | But you don't know what your chance of winning was, only whether you won or lost. |
| 03:27.18 | Cide | yes, but if my chance of winning is 50% then it stands to reason that the game will likely be quite even |
| 03:27.26 | Iriel | Epecially if you haven't spent a lot of time beforehand thinking about it |
| 03:27.28 | Cide | games of sc2 aren't very chaotic systems |
| 03:27.34 | alestane | But that's not how people perceive these things. |
| 03:27.35 | Iriel | 50% is STATISTICALLY |
| 03:27.42 | Iriel | It says nothing about how the GAME feels |
| 03:27.50 | Iriel | Just the probability of success |
| 03:27.55 | Cide | yes |
| 03:28.04 | alestane | They perceive that they got destroyed, that they had a close game, or that they weren't challenged. |
| 03:28.07 | Cide | but there's in my opinion a good chance that the game will FEEL even |
| 03:28.15 | Iriel | if 50% of the time I sneak in a win |
| 03:28.22 | Iriel | and ther other 50% of the time i'm destroyed by an AT |
| 03:28.26 | Iriel | I'm going to feel a bit annoyed |
| 03:28.32 | Iriel | regardless of how "fair" it is |
| 03:28.44 | Cide | are you arguing that the 50% is aggregated statistics? |
| 03:28.47 | Iriel | Because I'll feel that if I was playing against RT's then i'd have a much higher win %age |
| 03:29.06 | Iriel | They have to be aggregated |
| 03:29.20 | Iriel | I dont think the matchmaker simulates every player's personality and style |
| 03:29.25 | Cide | yes, but in a perfect world the matchmaker would be able to do good predictions on a single match basis |
| 03:29.32 | Cide | of course that's very idealized |
| 03:29.36 | Iriel | It's impossibly so |
| 03:29.47 | Cide | but I believe it does it to a pretty good extent |
| 03:29.49 | alestane | However, I have to go to bed now. |
| 03:29.56 | Iriel | I dont |
| 03:30.07 | Iriel | BUt then i'm down at the noisy bottom end of the ladder |
| 03:30.20 | Cide | so you're saying the matchmaker is unable to match RT vs AT |
| 03:30.20 | Iriel | I suspect nearer the top the differences are more subtle and matches closer in generak |
| 03:30.28 | Iriel | I'm not saying that at all |
| 03:30.34 | Cide | oh? |
| 03:31.03 | Iriel | I'm saying that I'm willing to believe that the matchmaker can compensate statistically and give RT+RT and RT+AT the same win/loss distribution for agiven RT |
| 03:31.23 | Iriel | But that the EXPERIENCE of the RT player in an RT+RT and RT+AT match might actually be very different for the win and loss outcomes |
| 03:31.42 | Cide | if that is the case then that's a failure of the matchmaking system |
| 03:31.44 | Iriel | Both objectively at the game level (but I dont have the stats for that) and subjectively |
| 03:31.46 | Cide | that's not fair at all |
| 03:31.52 | Cide | instinctively |
| 03:32.16 | Iriel | If blizzard had statistics for the "closeness" of the match in both cases, that might convince me i'm wrong |
| 03:32.18 | Cide | the vast majority of games should be perceived as fair or the matchmaker has failed |
| 03:32.35 | Iriel | but so far all I've seen is discussion on probability of success versus failure |
| 03:32.37 | Cide | (given that the matchmaker considers the match "even" naturally) |
| 03:32.45 | Iriel | which at the macro ladder level is really all that's important |
| 03:32.56 | Cide | well in my opinion |
| 03:33.17 | Cide | the matchmaker should be able to provide you with opponents that are equal in team skill as your own team, be it RT or AT |
| 03:33.34 | Cide | if it manages to do that consistently then games will be perceived as fair and even regardless of RT+RT or AT+RT |
| 03:33.39 | Cide | or AT+AT for that matter |
| 03:33.59 | Cide | if it doesn't manage to do that then it should be scrapped for two separate game modes, RT+RT and AT+AT -- not AT+RT |
| 03:34.21 | Shadowed | how long have you guys been arguing this |
| 03:34.28 | Shadowed | because I'm pretty sure I saw you arguing this 3 hours ago |
| 03:34.30 | Cide | I was just asking for Iriel's opinion when he joined |
| 03:34.40 | Cide | because he usually brings up good arguments |
| 03:34.55 | Cide | the discussion ended with Dagmar ignoring me before that |
| 03:35.16 | Shadowed | fair enough |
| 03:35.27 | Cide | anyway, I was under the impression that the matchmaker did manage to do that |
| 03:35.37 | Cide | if it doesn't then yeah, it will be perceived as generally unfair |
| 03:35.46 | Iriel | Now I just though of one concession to your argument I might be willing to make |
| 03:35.55 | Iriel | But it depends on the probability that an RT goes up against an AT |
| 03:36.31 | Cide | okay |
| 03:36.40 | Iriel | If all RT players encounter about the same %age of AT matches, and that %age is relatively high |
| 03:37.00 | Iriel | Then the 'unfairness' is somewhat mitigated by the fact that the people they're RANKED against have been through the same process |
| 03:37.29 | Iriel | If on the other hand, it's fairly unusual, or very patchy depending on time of day or something, then it goes the other way |
| 03:37.30 | Cide | well I don't really care about ladder rankings |
| 03:37.35 | Cide | if that's what you're talking about |
| 03:38.19 | Iriel | ANy kind of aggregate statistic of comparison between you and another RT player |
| 03:38.40 | Cide | I believe it to be a failure of the matchmaking system if a significant portion of matches is perceived as unfair |
| 03:38.48 | Cide | regardless of opponent |
| 03:39.24 | Iriel | What's significant, 1 in 4? |
| 03:39.35 | Cide | I would say like 1/8-ish |
| 03:40.05 | Cide | but that doesn't take into account perceived unfairness due to, say, being cannon rushed or otherwise beaten by a strategy that is perceived as lame |
| 03:40.36 | Cide | since that likely leaves the same general impression as being outclassed, but can't be taken into account by the matchmaker |
| 03:40.57 | Iriel | Let's talk about that for a moment, "perceived as lame" |
| 03:41.08 | Iriel | Surely if it worked it wasn't lame |
| 03:41.47 | Cide | yeah, lame is the wrong word, I was using it as part of the "that's so lame" slang |
| 03:41.51 | Iriel | (and yes, i'm being somewhat deliberately argumentative) |
| 03:41.56 | Iriel | I realize that |
| 03:42.01 | Iriel | You got the usage right |
| 03:42.14 | Cide | and yes, from an objective standpoint there is nothing wrong with such a strategy |
| 03:42.30 | Iriel | But that feeling about a strategy is the same feeling folks get when they're beaten by a coordinated pair in a supposedly random match |
| 03:42.49 | Cide | indeed |
| 03:43.13 | Cide | but the point I was making is that the matchmaker can prevent the latter |
| 03:43.22 | Cide | it cannot predict what strategy will be used |
| 03:43.28 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (~bluspacec@60-234-165-167.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) |
| 03:43.54 | bluspacecow | \o |
| 03:43.57 | bluspacecow | O_O |
| 03:44.03 | bluspacecow | "Repair.app.temp" |
| 03:44.05 | bluspacecow | wtf ? |
| 03:44.06 | Cide | I brought it up because I defined what is my opinion of - to what degree - the matchmaker is allowed to poorly match opponents skill-wise |
| 03:45.04 | Cide | ideally it should be as low as possible but due to matchmaker ranking fluctuations for teams with lower number of games played it's impossible to get it arbitrarily low |
| 03:45.16 | Cide | s/lower/low |
| 03:45.52 | Cide | but again, if the matchmaker cannot accomplish that I believe blizzard to be doing the wrong thing |
| 03:46.27 | Arrowmaster | stupid doctor, thinking my dad was in rejection from his blood work on monday having a creatinine level above 3 |
| 03:46.39 | Cide | if it can accomplish that however I believe the argument that AT+RT to be inherently unfair or less fun to be based on nothing but unverified raging |
| 03:47.34 | bluspacecow | Applications/World of Warcraft Beta.temp/Repair.app.temp/Contents.temp/MacOS.temp/RepairWoW.temp |
| 03:47.48 | bluspacecow | never thought I would see the day when I saw that being installed >_> |
| 03:49.12 | kd3 | cries |
| 03:49.17 | kd3 | eta: weeks |
| 03:49.22 | kd3 | curse you, blizz torrents |
| 03:50.00 | *** join/#wowuidev |Jelly| (~chatzilla@99-99-194-150.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:50.34 | Arrowmaster | the new downloader still uses bittorrent? |
| 03:52.12 | *** join/#wowuidev |Jelly| (~chatzilla@99-99-194-150.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:54.50 | bluspacecow | yep |
| 03:54.56 | mikma | "unable to validate game version" |
| 03:54.59 | bluspacecow | @kd3 turn off P2P should make it go quicker |
| 03:55.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~callahan@74-141-246-74.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 03:55.04 | mikma | what's the way of fixing this at beta? |
| 03:55.11 | kd3 | isn't using blizz's failtastic downloader |
| 03:55.14 | mikma | oh, changing the server address |
| 03:55.15 | bluspacecow | mikma you might need to download the client again |
| 03:55.46 | mikma | meh |
| 03:56.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Sesshu| (~Sesshu@ip-106-21.travedsl.de) |
| 03:56.07 | bluspacecow | i heard EU peeps were getting that mikma |
| 03:56.20 | mikma | good time to repair wotlk-wow, too |
| 03:56.33 | Arrowmaster | kd3: are you even seeing a full seed? |
| 03:56.37 | mikma | cause beta keeps crashing on me all the time |
| 03:56.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Ressy (~valwws@CPE002129d9fabf-CM0014e88eec26.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 03:56.49 | kd3 | no, but connected to ~190 peers I see the file 73 times |
| 03:56.55 | kd3 | s/file/full data/ |
| 04:06.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Hirsute (~chatzilla@lre-east-3-11.usahousing.utah.edu) |
| 04:06.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Hirsute (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Hirsute) |
| 04:06.45 | kd3 | yay. someone's seeding with utorrent. <3 |
| 04:07.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Hirsute (~chatzilla@lre-east-3-11.usahousing.utah.edu) |
| 04:07.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Hirsute (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Hirsute) |
| 04:07.23 | Adys | I have the patch |
| 04:07.25 | Adys | i have the dbcs |
| 04:07.36 | Adys | I have updated structures, updated data |
| 04:07.45 | Adys | I'm on a 3g without any stable net |
| 04:07.48 | Adys | suck it up. |
| 04:07.48 | bluspacecow | so you going to do a diff ? |
| 04:07.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Hirsute (~chatzilla@lre-east-3-11.usahousing.utah.edu) |
| 04:08.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Hirsute (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Hirsute) |
| 04:09.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (~dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 04:09.34 | Adys | hey kd3 |
| 04:09.38 | Ressy | I'd seed kd3, but my ISP sucks. Go go .5mb/s upload - which results in like.. 30kb/s. If that. *sigh* |
| 04:09.38 | Adys | fields.insert_field(BitMaskField("flags_10"), after="flags_9") |
| 04:09.39 | Adys | :p |
| 04:09.50 | kd3 | sigh |
| 04:10.17 | kd3 | "wait, wait. how many flags do we have now in spell.dbc?" |
| 04:10.19 | kd3 | rolls his eyes |
| 04:10.44 | Ressy | Yup. Reforging is active. |
| 04:11.02 | Ressy | Pretty cool. |
| 04:11.06 | Adys | kd3: 320 |
| 04:11.12 | Ressy | Trainers are still borked |
| 04:11.13 | kd3 | only 4 patches after they put it in the patch notes |
| 04:11.14 | Adys | and another 200ish moved to other dbcs |
| 04:11.18 | kd3 | lmao |
| 04:11.19 | Adys | kd3: http://db.mmo-champion.com/latest/?purge |
| 04:11.44 | Ressy | New SP talent |
| 04:11.59 | Ressy | SPs had 12 talent points refunded |
| 04:12.22 | mikma | # Epicus Shrink (#87016) |
| 04:12.45 | kd3 | hopefully used by epicus maximus on random units in the maelstrom |
| 04:12.54 | WobWork | ... wtf http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7543949/IMG_0213.JPG ? |
| 04:13.36 | Warloco | since there's a new beta build, has anything other than the launcher actually changed? |
| 04:13.47 | Adys | Dwarf Pushing a Wheelbarrow [Looks bad - don't use] (#87005) |
| 04:13.49 | Warloco | ah nvm |
| 04:13.52 | Adys | :D |
| 04:15.42 | Ressy | new intro quest in SW that sends you to MH. |
| 04:16.18 | Warloco | meh, so- the patchnotes basically describe nothing new, is that because there is nothing new? |
| 04:16.23 | Fisker | so kd3 |
| 04:16.24 | Warloco | Ressy, that quest was there already >.< |
| 04:16.29 | Warloco | you mean the billboard? |
| 04:16.33 | Fisker | is the installer only supposed to come in an us variety? |
| 04:16.46 | Jerub | can't hvae filthy europeans playing it |
| 04:16.52 | kd3 | ^ |
| 04:17.04 | Ressy | yeah, billboard |
| 04:17.31 | Adys | eu can log with the us one |
| 04:17.51 | Warloco | yeah that was last patch already ressy |
| 04:18.22 | Ressy | really? Hm. Guess I spent too much time outside SW. heh |
| 04:18.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~callahan@74-141-246-74.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 04:20.30 | bluspacecow | @warloco Macs have a repair.app now apparently |
| 04:21.05 | Warloco | yay :p |
| 04:22.36 | bluspacecow | Applications/World of Warcraft Beta.temp/Repair.app.temp/Contents.temp/MacOS.temp/RepairWoW.temp |
| 04:22.44 | bluspacecow | ^^2.1 MB executable |
| 04:22.56 | bluspacecow | still writing the rest of the resources in tho |
| 04:23.07 | Fisker | bah bluspacecow |
| 04:23.09 | Fisker | that sucks |
| 04:23.27 | bluspacecow | i look forward to sodo-^delete^del^del^del corrupting my install on purpose to see how it works ! |
| 04:23.45 | Warloco | im kind of hoping blizzard fixed the issue with altheros network chips, but im guessing no |
| 04:23.56 | bluspacecow | got one handy ? |
| 04:24.04 | Ressy | that was what was keeping ppl from logging in, right Warloco? |
| 04:24.07 | Ressy | due to cache issues? |
| 04:24.12 | Warloco | nope |
| 04:24.14 | Corrodias | how did they manage to make a game that has bugs on specific network hardware? |
| 04:24.43 | Warloco | no idea corro, but it actually screws up pretty bad |
| 04:24.50 | Iriel | They're quite "agressive" with their netcode and graphics code |
| 04:24.53 | Ressy | I thought I saw a bunch of posts earlier with Atheros users with "Unable to Connect" |
| 04:24.58 | Iriel | They find lots of wierd fringe case bugs with stuff |
| 04:25.02 | Warloco | after it DC's my network adapter refuses to do anything until I reboot |
| 04:25.03 | Ressy | (earlier meaning a few weeks ago) |
| 04:25.06 | Ressy | ouch |
| 04:25.13 | Corrodias | cool |
| 04:25.19 | mikma | stupid game version |
| 04:25.35 | Warloco | https://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=26262930037&sid=2000 |
| 04:25.48 | kd3 | mikma; you're getting the installer from bnet and not trying to patch, right? |
| 04:26.03 | Warloco | few people have tossed in a different network adapter and had no more problems |
| 04:26.06 | bluspacecow | mikma whats your versions ? |
| 04:26.15 | Warloco | it also only effects certain characters |
| 04:26.32 | mikma | kd3: i'm trying to launch the game ^^ |
| 04:26.36 | Warloco | its a right pain in the ass :/ |
| 04:26.49 | mikma | bluspacecow: umm, latest and greatest beta |
| 04:27.03 | bluspacecow | that means nothing to me |
| 04:27.06 | kd3 | 12694? |
| 04:27.08 | bluspacecow | speak to me in numbers |
| 04:27.22 | mikma | 12644 seems to be in the wow |
| 04:27.40 | bluspacecow | where you getting the version mismatch then ? |
| 04:27.49 | kd3 | nope. go to bnet and get the /new/ installer. that'll get you to 12635, which'll patch to 12694 |
| 04:27.52 | bluspacecow | what version is your launcher and downloader tools and stuff at ? |
| 04:28.23 | bluspacecow | did you redownload a 658MB installer ? |
| 04:28.41 | eidolarr | are there any git gangsters here? |
| 04:28.45 | Fisker | kkkkkkkkkkkkdddddddddddd3333333333333333 |
| 04:28.54 | kd3 | yes, fisk-fisk? |
| 04:28.54 | Ressy | Warloco:have you fiddled with Router Settings, such as MTU? We've seen changing that to 1500 occasionally fixing these issues. |
| 04:29.02 | mikma | so i'll just delete this old cata then? |
| 04:29.07 | kd3 | if you want |
| 04:29.12 | Fisker | i hate a 650MB launcher kd3 |
| 04:29.21 | Fisker | especially when they said core files were about 70MB |
| 04:29.25 | Ressy | Fisker: You'll hate the next 14gb download. |
| 04:29.25 | mikma | i really want, it kept on crashing on me and takes a shitloads of space :D |
| 04:29.29 | bluspacecow | @eidolarr - try annoying Tekkub he works for Git |
| 04:29.44 | kd3 | s/Git/github/ |
| 04:29.45 | Fisker | not if i hate you first Ressy |
| 04:29.55 | eidolarr | when should you NOT use pull --rebase? |
| 04:29.58 | Ressy | :P |
| 04:30.07 | mikma | 12635-enUS |
| 04:30.17 | bluspacecow | @mikma Delete the old World of Warcraft Beta.temp folders they won't ressume |
| 04:30.18 | kd3 | yup. that's the new installer |
| 04:31.05 | mikma | can the old patches be used or do i have to download them again? :D |
| 04:31.22 | Ressy | the launcher doesn't use the old patches |
| 04:31.28 | mikma | whoopdidoo |
| 04:31.38 | kd3 | not that you need the old patches |
| 04:31.39 | bluspacecow | no 12635 - 12694 installer ? |
| 04:31.51 | kd3 | the old patches are smaller than 12635, after all |
| 04:31.58 | kd3 | s/smaller/earlier/ |
| 04:32.05 | bluspacecow | oh my ISP is going to love me next month |
| 04:32.23 | bluspacecow | extra bandwidth charges ka ching ka ching ka ching |
| 04:33.27 | Ressy | I'd say wait to download the standalone patch from work, but nobody's gonna upload a 14gb patch... |
| 04:33.41 | Yssaril | bluspacecow: whats your cap? |
| 04:34.01 | bluspacecow | 15GB , $10/5GB over it |
| 04:34.03 | bluspacecow | NZD |
| 04:34.21 | bluspacecow | this household doesn't often go over 15 GB >_> |
| 04:34.41 | Ressy | wow. thats a low cap. |
| 04:35.14 | bluspacecow | I know |
| 04:35.20 | bluspacecow | but we dont often go over it |
| 04:35.36 | Warloco | RessyWarloco:have you fiddled with Router Settings, such as MTU? We've seen changing that to 1500 occasionally fixing these issues |
| 04:35.39 | Warloco | sorry what? |
| 04:36.24 | mikma | warloco: http://192.168.0.1 or http://10.0.0.1 |
| 04:36.36 | mikma | then login with admin/admin or admin/password ^^ |
| 04:36.42 | Ressy | Warloco: Does your router reset too, or is it just the adapter |
| 04:36.49 | Warloco | just adapter |
| 04:36.59 | Warloco | and mikma 192.168.178.1 is my router :p |
| 04:37.20 | mikma | that's one f**ked up router you got there |
| 04:37.46 | Warloco | lol |
| 04:37.49 | Ressy | lol.. You can change the IP address. |
| 04:37.49 | bluspacecow | hey ! |
| 04:37.55 | bluspacecow | i didn't touch his router ! |
| 04:38.13 | kd3 | wtf, 15 gigs more to download? |
| 04:38.13 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 04:38.13 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 04:38.13 | kd3 | sigh |
| 04:38.17 | Warloco | it allows ISDN + ASDL, not a lot of routers support both |
| 04:38.26 | mikma | ressy: yeah, i know, have you ever heard of sarcasm? ;) |
| 04:38.42 | Ressy | difficult with irc. my apologies |
| 04:39.01 | bluspacecow | :( |
| 04:39.03 | Fisker | haha kd3 |
| 04:39.08 | bluspacecow | that's $30 for me :( |
| 04:40.43 | Kraps | derp "i aint dead yet bitch" i have an extra 2 minutes to find your other nexuses buddy |
| 04:41.16 | Warloco | not sure if I can change the MTU on my router though |
| 04:41.50 | Ressy | I had to change the MTU on my old linksys router to be able to have a stable wireless connection. |
| 04:41.54 | Jerub | Warloco: changing MTU to 1500 can't possibly fix anything. |
| 04:42.03 | Jerub | Warloco: to 1492 sometimes, or even smaller maybe |
| 04:42.35 | Jerub | Warloco: i can assist you with actual diagnostics to find out if this is actually an avenue that you should explore. |
| 04:43.04 | Warloco | like I said though, only my network card locks up- my router stays fine |
| 04:43.19 | Jerub | scrolls up to read carefully. |
| 04:43.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~callahan@74-141-246-74.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 04:44.10 | Jerub | Warloco: you can remove blizzard/atheros interaction by sending your internet over a vpn. does your router support vpn termination? |
| 04:44.33 | Jerub | so blizzard would bind to a virtual (vpn) adapter and then that would use your wireless. |
| 04:44.52 | Warloco | not using wireless |
| 04:45.00 | Jerub | wait, what, atheros wired network? |
| 04:45.05 | Jerub | didn't know anyone had one of those :P |
| 04:45.59 | Warloco | (FRITZ!Box Fon WLAN 7170Firmware version 29.04.82), I know it says WLAN, it has WLAN, but im connected through UDP |
| 04:46.03 | Warloco | err not UDP |
| 04:46.24 | kd3 | ethernet? |
| 04:46.28 | Warloco | yeah |
| 04:46.53 | Jerub | you were probably thinking UTP |
| 04:47.00 | Warloco | thats the one |
| 04:47.18 | Jerub | Warloco: okay, the vpn idea still holds, if your router supports it. |
| 04:47.50 | Jerub | a lot do, PPTP is ideal. |
| 04:48.05 | Warloco | I use the onboard netword from my Asus P5K mobo, Atheros L1 Gigabit Ethernet 10/100/1000Base-T Controller (according to devide managed) |
| 04:49.17 | Warloco | I'm pretty sure I've seen the term PPTP a bunch of times while looking through my router, let me try look it up |
| 04:52.24 | Warloco | cant find it right now, any suggestion what to look for / where to look for it? |
| 04:52.32 | Jerub | Warloco: basically what i'm suggesting is that you 'dial in' to your router from your PC. it will mean all your packets are travelling over an encrypted tunnel. it will mean that blizzard's software is no longer talking to the hardware, and you can ascertain if it's specifically a blizzard+atheros problem, or just crappy drivers that suck with everyone |
| 04:53.24 | Warloco | right, I found VPN under Advanced > internet > permit access > vpn |
| 04:53.56 | Jerub | sounds right :P |
| 04:54.12 | Warloco | "Enter a file with FRITZ!Box VPN settings:" does that sound right? |
| 04:54.12 | Jerub | then in windows you add a 'dial up connection' |
| 04:54.24 | Jerub | hm, that sounds right, but complicated |
| 04:54.35 | Jerub | maybe you have to go look at really annoying settings. |
| 04:54.53 | Jerub | the other option, if that's too annoying and hard is to install one of those world of warcraft vpn things |
| 04:55.05 | Jerub | you know, like wtfast or whatever it's called. i see banner ads. |
| 04:55.29 | Warloco | in the thread I linked to earlier there were a couple of people who said their problems were gone when they plugged in another netword adapter |
| 04:55.37 | Fisker | i'm cleaning up kd3 |
| 04:55.59 | kd3 | does that mean you'll be able to walk around in your room without tripping over stuff now? |
| 04:56.50 | Fisker | no |
| 04:56.56 | Fisker | because i'm cleaning up on my computers |
| 04:56.59 | Fisker | computer* |
| 04:57.10 | kd3 | waving goodbye to the porn, then? |
| 04:57.21 | Fisker | naw |
| 04:57.44 | Fisker | waving goodbye to the rar archives it was in then keeping the porn |
| 04:57.57 | kd3 | ah |
| 04:58.58 | Adys | http://wowtal.com |
| 04:59.00 | Adys | wowtal updated |
| 04:59.17 | Fisker | i wonder why installing takes so long |
| 04:59.49 | Warloco | so what's changed Adys? |
| 05:00.17 | Adys | im on it |
| 05:00.27 | mikma | fix the level cap fooooool! ;) |
| 05:01.15 | Adys | yeah when i get on my desktop |
| 05:01.18 | Adys | i know whats wrongf |
| 05:01.29 | Adys | i just dont have the environment to fix it |
| 05:02.09 | Fisker | i like it when 3-point talents increases something by 0% |
| 05:02.29 | Warloco | did any talents actually change? |
| 05:02.37 | Ressy | SP did |
| 05:02.50 | mikma | adys: yeah, i understand why it might be har to fix :P you might need to enter the levels there manually |
| 05:03.21 | Fisker | install kd3 INSTALL |
| 05:03.30 | kd3 | slowd3 is slow |
| 05:03.42 | Ressy | how slow? |
| 05:03.46 | Adys | mikma: you can do js? |
| 05:03.46 | Kraps | "i like it when 3-point talents increases something by 0%" |
| 05:03.50 | kd3 | 1.5/128 |
| 05:03.54 | mikma | adys: negative |
| 05:04.00 | Kraps | Fisker: i won my second game in sc |
| 05:04.07 | Jerub | Kraps: awesome. |
| 05:04.09 | Adys | if anyone got like 10 min to fix the js part |
| 05:04.10 | Jerub | Kraps: what race are you playing? |
| 05:04.12 | Adys | i can push it live |
| 05:04.33 | Kraps | terran, in the practice league though |
| 05:04.41 | Fisker | oh ok Kraps |
| 05:04.47 | Jerub | Kraps: what's your attack force? |
| 05:04.47 | Fisker | but i hope you die in the third game |
| 05:05.07 | Kraps | Fisker: i already died |
| 05:05.09 | Fisker | he lifted off his barracs and flew to the opponent thus bypassing the rocks |
| 05:05.44 | Kraps | ur funy |
| 05:05.48 | Jerub | Kraps: it works |
| 05:05.50 | Fisker | i am |
| 05:05.55 | Jerub | i've used it before :P |
| 05:06.10 | Jerub | (never works against someone who scouts properly) |
| 05:06.24 | Kraps | http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1317779/1/Kraps/matches |
| 05:06.34 | *** join/#wowuidev |Jelly| (~chatzilla@99-99-194-150.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 05:06.37 | Fisker | sweet kd3 |
| 05:06.45 | Fisker | looks like they changed the mpq layout a bit as well |
| 05:06.56 | Fisker | so you can't just copy the old beta files back and hope it updates the rest |
| 05:06.57 | Fisker | :( |
| 05:06.58 | Jamash | did I just see "crackelfskin" flash by in the installer? |
| 05:07.13 | kd3 | jamash; yes. it's the fel elf model |
| 05:07.18 | Jamash | awesome |
| 05:07.23 | Fisker | they're on crack |
| 05:08.08 | Jerub | Kraps: in the lower leagues, i found marines+marauders (2 barracks) was all you needed to get consistent wins. |
| 05:08.19 | Fisker | <random string of numbers and letters>.blp files are awesome |
| 05:08.30 | Iriel | I won a whole 2 games as well |
| 05:08.31 | Iriel | http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/678107/1/Iriel/ |
| 05:08.41 | Kraps | Fisker: he almost got me with the cloaked templar guys, after failing and building a sensor tower i realized i needed a AA gun for detection |
| 05:08.53 | Warloco | fel elf model? |
| 05:08.58 | kd3 | rather, sorry. 'wretched' |
| 05:08.58 | Fisker | baw Kraps |
| 05:09.14 | kd3 | http://www.wowwiki.com/Wretched#Trivia |
| 05:09.17 | Iriel | NIght Elf Ghost - works fairly well for the iriel theme |
| 05:09.38 | Fisker | oh yeah just forgot |
| 05:09.44 | mikma | "he Character pane has been redesigned. Character stats can now be shown or hidden via the Show All Details/Hide All Details button on the bottom left. When shown, all character stats will be visible in a window to the right of the pane. Stat sections can be reorganized by clicking and dragging them up or down the pane." |
| 05:09.44 | Fisker | rather not look in the folder it's installing |
| 05:09.56 | Fisker | it'll just say "LOL CAN'T MOVE, ABORTING K." |
| 05:09.57 | Iriel | Sleep time. |
| 05:10.39 | Kraps | the lowest league is bronze? wtf is everyone calling it copper for? |
| 05:10.49 | Jamash | it was copper in beta |
| 05:10.51 | Fisker | your mom Kraps |
| 05:10.58 | Fisker | or that |
| 05:12.07 | Jerub | Kraps: they got rid of copper because no one liked being that scrub |
| 05:12.27 | Jerub | so they added diamondaabove platinum and erased copper |
| 05:13.20 | Kraps | (should i get out of the practice league?) |
| 05:13.32 | Jamash | only if you're consistently winning |
| 05:13.50 | Fisker | i had some great practice on your mom btw Kraps |
| 05:13.57 | Xyphoid | i get the idea practice league doesn't help you much |
| 05:14.11 | Fisker | no not really :P |
| 05:14.15 | Kraps | Fisker: she played diablo so no |
| 05:14.19 | Jerub | Xyphoid: it's nice in that it doesn't count your losses against you once you get out |
| 05:14.56 | Kraps | awesome, an achievement for watching a replay |
| 05:15.01 | Warloco | holy crap why is the blizzard downloader so slow |
| 05:15.04 | Xyphoid | i'm a total sc2 noob but i read that scouting is crucial, and you can't scout properly with the boulder thing |
| 05:15.14 | Fisker | thank you for helping us test the cataclysm beta Warloco |
| 05:15.28 | bluspacecow | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPXZ5NWtiQE |
| 05:15.29 | Kraps | boulder thing? |
| 05:15.30 | Jerub | Xyphoid: oh, you don't have to block your base in practice league? |
| 05:15.34 | Jerub | never played in practice league |
| 05:15.40 | Warloco | :D |
| 05:15.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Slackwise (~slackwise@c-98-228-240-33.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 05:16.19 | Fisker | not to mention that the first time you get out of practice league you would've been familiar with the stonewall cluch |
| 05:16.20 | Fisker | clutch |
| 05:16.27 | Fisker | so now you're being scouted and proxied left and right |
| 05:16.28 | Xyphoid | practice league there's a big rock in your ramp |
| 05:16.31 | Warloco | im uploading at 120 kb/s, downloading at 90 :( |
| 05:16.39 | Xyphoid | so my first scout is usually a reaper |
| 05:16.50 | Jamash | nice, bluspacecow |
| 05:17.06 | bluspacecow | not my video just found it on mmo-champ |
| 05:17.22 | Fisker | my first scout is 30 carriers |
| 05:17.23 | Fisker | :3 |
| 05:18.03 | Jamash | my first scout is 200 scvs |
| 05:18.08 | mikma | oh. so you can actually play the game eventho it hasn't been completely loaded |
| 05:18.17 | Kraps | 200 thors |
| 05:18.24 | Fisker | omg |
| 05:18.25 | Fisker | omgomgomg |
| 05:18.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Corrodias (no@96-40-253-184.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com) |
| 05:18.40 | kd3 | wtf... |
| 05:18.47 | Fisker | several locales in one client! |
| 05:18.54 | bluspacecow | fikser just discovered puberty |
| 05:18.57 | kd3 | KERNEL32.dll.SetFileValidData unimplemented? |
| 05:19.01 | Fisker | but yeah fuck them for changing the layout of mpq files :( |
| 05:19.08 | Jamash | bawwwwww |
| 05:19.29 | bluspacecow | http://www.geekzone.co.nz/imagessubs/05275ceae9100541dfc74cbc74151bbe.jpg |
| 05:19.33 | bluspacecow | just for you fisker |
| 05:20.07 | mikma | ~bluspacecow++ |
| 05:20.20 | Fisker | i just discovered something awesome |
| 05:20.25 | Fisker | why would i need a "whambulance"? |
| 05:20.47 | mikma | bluspacecow: offer him a trollbulance |
| 05:20.57 | bluspacecow | because you whining about them changing the layout of mpq files |
| 05:21.01 | bluspacecow | and becuase I love you |
| 05:21.11 | bluspacecow | *man hug time!* |
| 05:21.12 | Kraps | blue walls, assassins creed |
| 05:21.18 | Fisker | ITT: Clueless people |
| 05:21.34 | Fisker | no u Kraps |
| 05:21.49 | Kraps | fisker |
| 05:22.01 | Warloco | hmm... I have this ray of sunlight crossing my screen, indicating that I really should go to bed now... Or 5 hours ago. |
| 05:22.02 | Kraps | i won my second game |
| 05:22.04 | mikma | kraps: AC2 was awesome. maybe i should play it again |
| 05:22.49 | Fisker | doesn't the new launcher have like a connection info box like the old downloader? |
| 05:23.25 | Adys | [06:18:58] <kd3> KERNEL32.dll.SetFileValidData unimplemented? |
| 05:23.29 | Adys | fresh wineprefix |
| 05:23.42 | Adys | kernel32 unimplemented stuff is usually just that |
| 05:23.42 | Fisker | i take the new launcher is awesome in wine? >:3 |
| 05:23.57 | bluspacecow | crashing last time i checked |
| 05:24.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Proditor (~Proditor@c80-217-71-99.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 05:24.25 | Adys | well that would suck |
| 05:24.31 | Kraps | philosophizes http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/218481865 |
| 05:24.34 | Adys | there arent gonna be commits until the 20th :p |
| 05:24.55 | bluspacecow | oh my |
| 05:25.03 | Fisker | 05:18:01.4861 Patch on demand http torrent download succeeded. <-do want |
| 05:29.20 | kd3 | meh, just found a patch for the issue |
| 05:29.26 | kd3 | waits on the -j4 recompile to finish |
| 05:30.10 | kd3 | http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23477 |
| 05:31.09 | Fisker | haha wtf |
| 05:31.13 | Fisker | i fell through the ground |
| 05:31.14 | Fisker | jerks |
| 05:31.27 | kd3 | points at Fisker |
| 05:31.30 | Jamash | my installer is at 46% and I don't have a "play" option, am I missing something? |
| 05:31.30 | kd3 | ha ha! |
| 05:31.32 | Kraps | Blink Stalkers- Stalkers with blink. |
| 05:31.47 | kd3 | jamash; is that the first ~650MB download? |
| 05:31.49 | Adys | kd3: holy crap that was fast |
| 05:31.54 | Jamash | no |
| 05:31.57 | Jamash | I did that already |
| 05:32.09 | Ressy | when did you get the 650mb patch? |
| 05:32.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Sargeras (~Sargeras@cpe-76-95-69-70.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 05:32.19 | Jamash | a couple hours ago |
| 05:32.33 | bluspacecow | technically thats a new 650mb installer Ressy |
| 05:32.40 | Ressy | yeah. |
| 05:33.08 | Fisker | but it's odd kd3 |
| 05:33.25 | kd3 | 2N+1? |
| 05:33.26 | Fisker | usually if there's no physically rendered ground you would fall through |
| 05:33.28 | Fisker | but not this time |
| 05:33.31 | Fisker | except this one spot :( |
| 05:33.54 | Fisker | could also use a loading bar other than Windows thinking it has crashed and stopped responding |
| 05:34.27 | kd3 | minimize when hearthing/porting has been the workaround for that I've seen |
| 05:34.36 | Adys | no |
| 05:34.36 | Ressy | yeah.. its still a problem. |
| 05:34.42 | Adys | buying a good computer has been the workaround for me |
| 05:34.43 | Adys | :D |
| 05:34.44 | kd3 | <3 not testing outside the internal lan with gig-e |
| 05:34.56 | Ressy | Adys, its an issue with using windowed mode. |
| 05:35.03 | Adys | Im using windowed mode |
| 05:35.49 | Fisker | looks like i timed out instead |
| 05:38.26 | kd3 | ooh. [[Very Light Sabre]] |
| 05:38.35 | kd3 | http://www.wowwiki.com/Very_Light_Sabre |
| 05:38.43 | Fisker | oh sweet |
| 05:38.44 | kd3 | waits for the lucasarts lawsuit |
| 05:38.50 | Fisker | they still didn't fix the training bug? ;3 |
| 05:38.54 | Ressy | nope |
| 05:39.03 | Fisker | btw kd3 |
| 05:39.09 | Fisker | i hate you at this very moment. |
| 05:39.18 | Fisker | i'm going to have to complain on the forums |
| 05:39.33 | kd3 | I'm glad, fisk-fisk. my life is fulfilled knowing that you cannot stand my very existence |
| 05:39.34 | Ressy | lol kd3. I was thinking that myself with lucasarts' c&d to that laser company. lol |
| 05:39.35 | Fisker | if alliance get a free lightsaber at like level 3, then i want one too |
| 05:39.45 | Kraps | "The medivac dropship was designed to replace medics. Medics could not keep up with reapers, which discouraged the latter's use in favor of the medic/marine combination. The medivac dropship allowed for more flexibility" |
| 05:40.10 | Jamash | so the first time I ran the new installer I got a "play" button, but I closed it and reopened it and since then all I have is an "install" button |
| 05:40.27 | Fisker | ownt Jamash |
| 05:41.07 | kd3 | sweet. the patch works |
| 05:41.12 | kd3 | let's see how long the install takes |
| 05:41.28 | Fisker | what patch? |
| 05:41.38 | kd3 | http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23477 |
| 05:41.49 | Fisker | damn |
| 05:41.53 | Adys | lol Fisker hears patch he gets an erection |
| 05:41.54 | Fisker | i was hoping it would never work |
| 05:41.55 | bluspacecow | yay you can has beta noas ? |
| 05:41.56 | kd3 | though why the hell is the installer looking for GetLogicalProcessorInformation? |
| 05:42.10 | kd3 | every ~0.1 of a sec or so? |
| 05:42.11 | bluspacecow | maybe its geriatric |
| 05:42.21 | Adys | kd3: it's been doing that for a few weeks |
| 05:42.21 | bluspacecow | seriously geriatric |
| 05:42.22 | Adys | same on sc2 |
| 05:42.39 | Ressy | kd3: might have to do with old cpus not being supported anymore. |
| 05:43.07 | kd3 | it's checking for every single file it installs. really, not necessary. |
| 05:43.32 | kd3 | thinks of some of the real crap checking registry entries every few millisconds way back when |
| 05:43.33 | Fisker | no Adys |
| 05:43.36 | Fisker | it was a bonerkiller |
| 05:43.46 | Kraps | sc2 has 3 stars on amazon |
| 05:43.54 | Warloco | just incase you swap the bugger out while its installing ;D |
| 05:44.41 | Ressy | lol |
| 05:45.20 | Fisker | i wonder how you change locale though |
| 05:45.32 | Warloco | the installer is like: you no take cpu |
| 05:46.11 | kd3 | oh, wow. they split the mpqs back to the way they were in the 1.0 days? |
| 05:46.25 | mikma | split like how |
| 05:46.28 | Adys | kd3: it's called admitting tbc sucks |
| 05:46.29 | Adys | :D |
| 05:46.31 | kd3 | art/sound/world |
| 05:46.38 | kd3 | so far |
| 05:46.43 | mikma | meh |
| 05:46.45 | Jamash | oh, so it's a three stage install? |
| 05:46.47 | Fisker | old kd3 |
| 05:46.49 | Fisker | i told you |
| 05:46.59 | mikma | there's no need to HAXX the game now that you can fly everywhere :D |
| 05:47.06 | Fisker | there's also wow-update-12694 |
| 05:47.11 | Fisker | and all locales are installed |
| 05:47.21 | Fisker | oh and expansion1,2,3,etc. |
| 05:47.27 | Warloco | but I dont want to have french on my PC D: |
| 05:47.32 | kd3 | ^ |
| 05:47.35 | Jamash | rm france |
| 05:47.50 | Warloco | like.. all of it? |
| 05:49.26 | Kraps | "Is that dude from Starcraft, Buzz Lightyear?" |
| 05:49.34 | kd3 | winces |
| 05:50.36 | Fisker | take a good hard look kd3 |
| 05:50.56 | kd3 | leans in really close to his monitor, making out individual pixels |
| 05:51.13 | Adys | shows kd3 a boat |
| 05:51.19 | kd3 | nice boat |
| 05:51.53 | Fisker | well in this case it's a seahorse but still |
| 05:52.00 | Fisker | i'm lost in vashir |
| 05:52.02 | Warloco | good night all |
| 05:52.31 | kd3 | I've been hearing that a lot, about people not used to thinking in 3D having a hard time in vashjir |
| 05:52.32 | Fisker | oh wat |
| 05:52.43 | Fisker | the run animation in the water looks something like plainsrunning |
| 05:52.55 | Fisker | not so much that kd3 |
| 05:53.05 | Fisker | i completed the first part of the questline |
| 05:53.09 | Fisker | so now the NPC's aren't at the start |
| 05:53.16 | Fisker | and i can't find where else they're supposed to be |
| 05:53.24 | kd3 | www.wowwiki.com/Kelp_Forest_quests |
| 05:53.31 | kd3 | afaik it's been updated for the last build |
| 05:53.45 | kd3 | needs to level a new toon through the zone |
| 05:54.32 | Fisker | they need to bring back plainsrunning though |
| 05:56.35 | Fisker | http://www.wowwiki.com/Quest:Better_Late_Than_Dead <-i think that's the quest i gotta do now |
| 05:56.41 | Fisker | ah found it |
| 05:57.51 | kd3 | during the big fight at the ship, you should've gotten snagged by a naga then taken to near shallow's end |
| 05:58.22 | Fisker | yeah |
| 05:58.25 | Fisker | just never took the followup |
| 05:58.40 | Fisker | and hs'd straight out of there so didn't even get a good idea of where i was |
| 05:59.10 | *** join/#wowuidev rycole (~rycole@pool-71-252-168-73.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) |
| 05:59.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan (~pancake@cpe-024-163-016-179.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 06:00.03 | Fisker | so now is the point where you tell me where to find that mount |
| 06:00.26 | Fisker | A stake has been driven into the rock, and a long rape of rope draped around it. |
| 06:00.29 | Fisker | a long rape of rope? |
| 06:01.33 | bluspacecow | for those with long schalongs |
| 06:01.59 | kd3 | so uh, yeah. how'd I not catch that? |
| 06:02.02 | kd3 | hits edit |
| 06:02.20 | Fisker | halp kd3 |
| 06:02.27 | Fisker | i have no rope :( |
| 06:02.55 | Jamash | gives Fisker enough rope to hang himself. |
| 06:03.17 | kd3 | whee. 2.2 gigs of art. now... sound |
| 06:04.13 | Fisker | It's actually pretty awesome kd3 |
| 06:04.24 | Fisker | it was basically playable like 10 minutes into the download |
| 06:05.13 | Fisker | but you still gotta help me with that there quest |
| 06:05.37 | kd3 | swim southwestish from erunak. there should be a marker on your zone map |
| 06:05.42 | kd3 | it's at the edge of the abyss |
| 06:05.56 | kd3 | unless they've moved it (which they probably have) |
| 06:06.20 | kd3 | er, southeastish actually |
| 06:06.25 | Fisker | no marker |
| 06:06.39 | Blu|napping | I R tired /sleep |
| 06:07.32 | kd3 | if you look at your zone map... there's a cave near the shimmering expanse. just to the east of that is a small ledge jutting out in the abyss |
| 06:07.39 | kd3 | that's where it /was/ before they reorganized the zone |
| 06:08.46 | Fisker | So it's in a completely different zone |
| 06:08.51 | kd3 | no |
| 06:08.57 | kd3 | it's still in the kelp forest, barely |
| 06:09.13 | Fisker | i like their definition of west then |
| 06:09.46 | Fisker | so basically i just follow the rift? |
| 06:09.51 | kd3 | ya |
| 06:10.25 | kd3 | I could be leading you off into la-la-land, though. but that's where it was, and is a good enough place as any to start looking for it |
| 06:12.30 | kd3 | whee; initial install done. now to see how badly the launcher fares |
| 06:14.19 | Ressy | oh wow... |
| 06:16.05 | *** join/#wowuidev cbreak_work (~cbreak@drz-wizzer.drz.ethz.ch) |
| 06:16.12 | Fisker | The worst part of the whole thing was the 600MB patch and the install :P |
| 06:16.15 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (stolenlega@217.203.191.167) |
| 06:16.55 | Fisker | the whole thing works surprisingly well |
| 06:17.12 | Fisker | except for the initial fall through the ground and the disconnect when going to orgrimmar |
| 06:18.42 | *** part/#wowuidev Ressy (~valwws@CPE002129d9fabf-CM0014e88eec26.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 06:19.48 | Fisker | baw kd3 |
| 06:20.51 | Fisker | http://imgur.com/Rgr1B.jpg |
| 06:20.57 | Fisker | what a great way to place a quest item |
| 06:21.01 | Fisker | and not even make it sparkle |
| 06:23.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@pool014.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 06:23.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 06:23.49 | kd3 | then they moved it. that's good, at least |
| 06:24.04 | Dagmar | Fisker: Things didn't use to sparkle, actually |
| 06:24.19 | Jamash | quest items, vampires, etc |
| 06:24.37 | Fisker | didn't say that they did |
| 06:24.41 | Dagmar | I was a wee bit miffed at first about that cuz it makes it slightly overly _easy_ to find the stuff you're looking for even if you haven't paid the least bit attention to the quest text, BUT... |
| 06:24.49 | Dagmar | ...without the sparkle, some items were a serious *bitch* to find |
| 06:25.05 | Jamash | yeah, hunt the polygon sucked |
| 06:25.12 | Dagmar | Like, in Redridge Mountains there was a quest where you had to climb that guard tower and find a particular bottle. |
| 06:25.40 | Dagmar | You *knew* you were looking for a bottle and it had to be up there, but with as small as it was it was a big pain in the ass to see unless you kept the camera zoomed all the way in. |
| 06:25.45 | Dagmar | That... no good. |
| 06:25.49 | *** join/#wowuidev zenzio (~zenzio__@85.19.77.194) |
| 06:26.09 | Dagmar | So while the sparkle makes it too easy to find most things, the bigger problem si that otherwise reasonable stuff is a BITCH to find without it |
| 06:26.18 | Fisker | where's our holy power ui btw kd3 ? |
| 06:26.37 | kd3 | rofl, did it not make it this build? |
| 06:26.44 | kd3 | is still waiting on the "patch" to get started |
| 06:28.26 | Fisker | you said it made it last build! |
| 06:28.37 | kd3 | it did. it just may not be turned on |
| 06:28.56 | Fisker | haha mack fearsen |
| 06:28.57 | Fisker | :D |
| 06:29.15 | Dagmar | Doesn't he live in Westfall? |
| 06:29.45 | Dagmar | Bleh Nope. Grizzly Hills |
| 06:29.48 | mikma | 93% doanloaded :O |
| 06:29.54 | mikma | doanload! |
| 06:30.00 | Fisker | downlaan mikma |
| 06:30.53 | mikma | syndrome of a down! http://www.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/syndrome-of-a-down.jpg |
| 06:31.35 | Jamash | ~mikma-- |
| 06:31.41 | mikma | woot <2 |
| 06:31.49 | mikma | getting lower than fisker is my business |
| 06:32.04 | mikma | i'll return the favor! |
| 06:32.09 | mikma | ~jamash-- |
| 06:32.54 | Fisker | nice |
| 06:32.57 | Fisker | reforging works now |
| 06:33.28 | Jamash | cool, I can get rid of some of that useless hit rating |
| 06:33.45 | Dagmar | Can you loan some to my warlock? |
| 06:33.50 | Jamash | sure |
| 06:33.54 | Dagmar | hehe |
| 06:34.18 | Dagmar | My hunter is up to his ears in +hit, and he's long since tossed out every +hit gme |
| 06:34.33 | Jamash | I don't think I ever gemmed hit |
| 06:34.35 | Dagmar | My warlock is still struggling, but at least I can pillage some of the PvP gear |
| 06:34.56 | Dagmar | The hunter was at 352 hit for awhile there (>10%!) |
| 06:35.00 | Jamash | yeah same here |
| 06:35.23 | Dagmar | I suppose that beats BC days when I kept having to argue with people that I wasn't losing DPS because of only being at 5% iht |
| 06:35.26 | Jamash | of course, in cata higher tier content will supposedly require more hit rating |
| 06:35.30 | Dagmar | s/iht/hit/ |
| 06:35.45 | Dagmar | Attack power was disporportionally easy to get then |
| 06:36.04 | Dagmar | Didn't matter that I was missing 3% of the time when as a result I was hitting 7% harder |
| 06:36.26 | Elkano | hmm... is there only an enUS beta client now? |
| 06:36.47 | kd3 | elk; it'll get the data for all locales |
| 06:37.28 | kd3 | looks at deDE, enGB, enUS, esES, esMX, frFR and koKR in his new beta/Data folder |
| 06:37.34 | Fisker | old |
| 06:38.23 | Elkano | so even more space wasted? sounds cool :/ |
| 06:38.35 | Jamash | I would think that's just for beta |
| 06:38.36 | kd3 | ya |
| 06:38.41 | Fisker | btw Jamash as i understand it the more hit will just be so they can still make hit items :P |
| 06:38.44 | kd3 | I feel bad for people with bandwidth caps |
| 06:38.57 | Jamash | Fisker: gotta keep that treadmill rolling somehow |
| 06:39.01 | Elkano | I feel bad for people with small notebook hds :/ |
| 06:39.12 | Dagmar | kd3: Too right. Cox (I think) in Canada has a crazy low cap |
| 06:39.15 | Jamash | I'm glad I got 500GB on my new computer |
| 06:39.22 | zenzio | so, Google discontinues Wave after it failed to generate sufficient ripples |
| 06:39.24 | Dagmar | Comcast in the US got it more or less right |
| 06:39.28 | Jamash | wave was meh |
| 06:39.31 | Dagmar | zenzio: Did you use it? |
| 06:39.35 | zenzio | Dagmar: nope |
| 06:39.38 | Dagmar | Occasionally it was useful |
| 06:39.41 | zenzio | I just wanted to make a pun |
| 06:39.42 | Elkano | well, with Vista, you can never be sure how much free space you really have... |
| 06:39.48 | Dagmar | Most of the time it was just overkill and well, messy |
| 06:39.51 | Jamash | I went to the googleplex itself and did a weekend hacking session on it, and I came away unimpressed |
| 06:40.24 | Dagmar | It was very handy one night when I was trying to splain ARP poisoning to someone and I could just pull in digrams and illustrations from everywhere |
| 06:40.34 | Fisker | wave is pretty nice |
| 06:40.44 | kd3 | grr |
| 06:40.51 | Jamash | I think the fundamental concept of a rich text chat environment is sound, but it needed more fundamental design work |
| 06:40.56 | kd3 | need to turn off p2p in the new launcher/downloader |
| 06:40.58 | Fisker | yeah Jamash |
| 06:41.00 | zenzio | Jamash: agreed |
| 06:41.02 | Fisker | baw kd3 |
| 06:41.03 | kd3 | wtb options menu |
| 06:41.45 | Dagmar | Jamash: Yeah, I gotta agree |
| 06:41.54 | Fisker | anyone recall the list of new flightpoints? |
| 06:41.55 | zenzio | from Ars: "Regular end users saw it as a mismatched amalgamation of disparate messaging paradigms blended together in a cumbersome Web-based interface." - sounds about right |
| 06:42.00 | Fisker | and yeah kd3 |
| 06:42.21 | Fisker | yeah zenzio the web-interface is probably what killed it as an e-mail replacement too |
| 06:42.43 | Fisker | Think it would've gone a bit better if they've tried a client approach as well |
| 06:42.51 | Jamash | woohoo, play button just lit up |
| 06:43.26 | Shirik | it's a tarp! |
| 06:43.45 | zenzio | you're playing a camping game? |
| 06:44.09 | Fisker | wat. |
| 06:44.15 | Fisker | they removed the battle for the undercity |
| 06:44.20 | Fisker | that sucks |
| 06:44.25 | Shirik | .. |
| 06:44.31 | Shirik | you suck |
| 06:44.42 | Dagmar | Fisker: The epic storyline quest from WoLTK? |
| 06:44.52 | Fisker | yeah Dagmar |
| 06:45.01 | Dagmar | Oh man |
| 06:45.09 | Dagmar | I actually thought it was pretty cool |
| 06:45.25 | Shirik | you know what really bothers me |
| 06:45.29 | Shirik | the color wheel |
| 06:45.37 | Dagmar | ...although the quest guy would freaking BOLT if you weren't paying attention during part of it |
| 06:45.39 | Shirik | why the hell does it go blue->purple->red |
| 06:45.51 | Dagmar | Shirik: Seriously? |
| 06:45.55 | Shirik | like I get that the colors work that way |
| 06:45.57 | Shirik | but |
| 06:46.08 | Shirik | blue is a very short wavelength |
| 06:46.11 | Shirik | red is a very long one |
| 06:46.15 | Shirik | how does it go in a circle |
| 06:46.16 | Dagmar | Yeah I know |
| 06:46.24 | Dagmar | You're wondering why it wraps around the spectrum where it shouldn't |
| 06:46.25 | Shirik | like I get that it DOES |
| 06:46.27 | Shirik | yes |
| 06:46.32 | zenzio | because a circle is more interesting to look at than a flat spectrum |
| 06:46.39 | Dagmar | It goes in a circle because it's (in our case) simply walking numbers from 00 to ff |
| 06:47.24 | Dagmar | You're just looking at the section that transitions from blue peak to red peak |
| 06:47.42 | Dagmar | It could just as easily be a triangle |
| 06:48.08 | Shirik | I just have trouble accepting that a one-dimensional concept can be represented in two dimensions |
| 06:48.15 | Dagmar | Three |
| 06:48.26 | kd3 | because we came up with color wheels before figuring out how light worked? |
| 06:48.29 | Dagmar | Three axis. Red, Green, Blue. |
| 06:48.29 | Shirik | well isn't the third like saturation? |
| 06:48.31 | Shirik | oh |
| 06:48.50 | Shirik | I'm more talking about HSV/HSL - the "H" part is a circle |
| 06:48.57 | Shirik | and I accept that it makes sense as a circle |
| 06:48.58 | Dagmar | Hue. |
| 06:49.08 | Shirik | but not that it should make sense as a circle |
| 06:49.25 | Dagmar | You're just mapping 360 degrees |
| 06:50.01 | Fisker | kd3 |
| 06:50.03 | *** join/#wowuidev pnorman (~pnorman@d66-183-43-190.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 06:50.03 | Fisker | flightpath list |
| 06:50.04 | Fisker | nao |
| 06:50.21 | kd3 | is still in the red stage |
| 06:50.33 | Dagmar | If it makes you feel any better I've no idea what the hell the difference between 'value' and 'lightness' is supposed to mean in those |
| 06:50.35 | kd3 | having to restart the downloader every few minutes because it bottoms out |
| 06:50.40 | kd3 | and does horrible things to my connection |
| 06:50.43 | Fisker | bam |
| 06:50.46 | Fisker | bambambabambambambam |
| 06:50.53 | Dagmar | The rest was just crap to mess with when I first got a card capable of even 565 |
| 06:51.02 | Dagmar | Cirrus Logic 5429 baby! |
| 06:51.12 | Dagmar | Touch the wrong address line and BOOM rebooted |
| 06:51.47 | Dagmar | Shirik: Did you ever see Acidwarp? |
| 06:51.52 | Shirik | no |
| 06:52.50 | Shirik | course you know |
| 06:52.53 | Shirik | I should just accept this as fact |
| 06:52.59 | Dagmar | Hmm... Are you familiar with how a 256-color VGA palette worked? |
| 06:52.59 | Shirik | people trying to tell me there's 26 dimensions in the world too |
| 06:53.09 | Shirik | not really |
| 06:53.11 | Shirik | that was before my time |
| 06:53.33 | Shirik | "wtf you telling me you didn't have millions of colors?!" |
| 06:53.44 | zenzio | dude |
| 06:53.52 | zenzio | don't forget the in-between of 65536 |
| 06:54.14 | Dagmar | Okay, so when you kicked the video card over into a graphics mode, you could address each pixel and assign them individually one of 256 colors. |
| 06:54.53 | Dagmar | This sounds like crap, but one sort of side effect was that if you went to the color table and changed what color a particular index was, all the pixels of that index on the screen would immediately be the new color instantly |
| 06:55.10 | Dagmar | So, like, no redrawing half the screen to change it from one color to another |
| 06:55.47 | Dagmar | Acidwarp put practically what amounted to a heighfield on the screen, and then sat around and screwed with it by applying various waves, all the while cycling the color palette like mad |
| 06:56.31 | Dagmar | Frankly, it looked drugged out like you would just not believe, and it *all* boiled down to doing complex transformations like what it takes to draw the colorwheel |
| 06:56.58 | Shirik | hm |
| 06:57.14 | Jamash | color cycling + mandelbrot drawing programs = leet |
| 06:57.21 | Dagmar | Don't doubt someone can draw dimensional transformations in colorspace |
| 06:57.29 | Dagmar | Jamash: It didn't mandlebrot |
| 06:57.39 | Shirik | I want to see a 26 dimensional monitor |
| 06:57.45 | Dagmar | It like didn't do anything that was particularly computationally intensive |
| 06:57.47 | Shirik | or at least a 10 dimensional monitor |
| 06:58.04 | Jamash | I'm not talking about Acidwarp, I'm talking about Fractint |
| 06:58.13 | Dagmar | Yeah I liked Fractint. |
| 06:58.20 | zenzio | "Hey Shirik, where's your monitor?" "I don't know... I messed up the time dimension :(" |
| 06:58.38 | Dagmar | If a vendor tried to cut corners on their math coprocessor, Fractint was like "THIS MACHINE SUCKS AND WILL BE SLOW" |
| 06:58.58 | Dagmar | zenzio: It is here five minutes ago. |
| 06:59.40 | Shirik | we should make a time machine |
| 06:59.42 | Jamash | Shirik: genetically engineer eyes with more than 3 color receptors |
| 06:59.50 | Shirik | I don't care about going into the past, just the future |
| 06:59.52 | Dagmar | Shirik: FInancing it shouldn't be a problem |
| 07:00.01 | Jamash | I'm going into the future right now |
| 07:00.06 | Shirik | it's easy to go into the future |
| 07:00.10 | Shirik | I mean like 100 years Jamash |
| 07:00.26 | Dagmar | Shirik: Look me up in 1999. I had about four grand ready to blow on RedHat but I was a chicken about it |
| 07:00.38 | Shirik | blow in what way? |
| 07:00.39 | Shirik | invest? |
| 07:00.43 | Dagmar | Yeah |
| 07:00.48 | Shirik | heh |
| 07:00.59 | Dagmar | Yeah I kick myself about that one almost as bad as USRObotics |
| 07:01.11 | Jamash | and mechanical men |
| 07:01.20 | Dagmar | My dad schooled me too closely on never gambling someting you don't want to lose. |
| 07:01.31 | Dagmar | Jamash: This was before they made about twenty bajillion modems |
| 07:01.35 | Jamash | shouldn't that be "can't afford to lose"? |
| 07:01.55 | Jamash | Dagmar: but what about the mechanical men? |
| 07:02.08 | Dagmar | Well, what got our attention was they made that campy little robot |
| 07:02.24 | Dagmar | We were feeling sketch about throwing over a year's allowance on that |
| 07:02.34 | Dagmar | Then they were like "Hey look. We made modems." |
| 07:02.43 | Jamash | ~wiki U.S. Robots and Mechanical Men |
| 07:03.01 | Jamash | good boy, purl |
| 07:03.11 | Dagmar | Yeah I've read pretty much everything Asimov wrote so I got the joke. |
| 07:03.13 | Jamash | or whatever gender irc bots have |
| 07:03.30 | Dagmar | It's still somewhat eclipsed by the ridiculous amount of money that USR stock would have turned into |
| 07:03.38 | Jamash | does USR still exist? |
| 07:03.45 | Dagmar | Now I'm like "VALVE! IPO DAMN YOU!" |
| 07:03.57 | Fisker | what Dagmar ? |
| 07:03.58 | Dagmar | I'm not pissing off another good op. |
| 07:04.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Mike-N-Go (~Mike-N-Go@64.193.93.197) |
| 07:04.25 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 07:04.30 | Jamash | valve stock will be available exclusively via steam |
| 07:04.37 | Jerub | i read a whacky crossover between 1984 and I, Robot by cory doctorow |
| 07:04.39 | Dagmar | That would rock |
| 07:04.40 | Dagmar | Hehe |
| 07:04.51 | Dagmar | Jerub: OOO did you read For The Win yet? |
| 07:04.55 | Jamash | cory doctorow is strange |
| 07:04.57 | Jerub | Dagmar: no, haven't yet |
| 07:05.10 | Dagmar | He's _really_ good at complex problems tho |
| 07:05.21 | Dagmar | Jerub: This one is about economics and gaming currency |
| 07:05.30 | Mike-N-Go | Hello. |
| 07:05.48 | Dagmar | ...and I mean "gaming" currency, not like in-game gold, although game gold figures into it |
| 07:05.51 | Jamash | "world server is down" baaaaaaaaaaaaaw |
| 07:05.52 | Dagmar | o/ |
| 07:06.16 | Jamash | You should read Halting State |
| 07:06.20 | Jerub | throws on phone |
| 07:06.22 | Dagmar | I'm somewhat impressed htat he managed to make goldfarmers seem like reasonable people |
| 07:06.29 | Dagmar | I still hate them tho |
| 07:06.40 | Jamash | Halting State starts with a bank robbery in an MMO |
| 07:06.47 | Jamash | and then gets weirder |
| 07:06.59 | Dagmar | I kinda prefer hard scifi |
| 07:07.09 | Jamash | that's what she said |
| 07:07.57 | Dagmar | "hard scifi" is like most of what Asimov wrote. It's point is not to be future-fantasy, but to take some technological innovation and sort of foretell what effect it has on society |
| 07:08.16 | Dagmar | Acellerando, very much hard scifi. |
| 07:08.21 | Jamash | I find the term "hard sci-fi" largely meaningless |
| 07:08.39 | Dagmar | It's becasue it's more about science than it is about fiction. |
| 07:08.43 | Jamash | if Larry Niven is a hard sci-fi author I'm the queen of denmark |
| 07:09.03 | Dagmar | WEll, you ain't the queen of denmark |
| 07:09.26 | Jamash | ~wiki Larry Niven |
| 07:09.36 | Jamash | bad robot |
| 07:09.45 | Jamash | someone teach purl to skip infoboxes |
| 07:09.46 | Dagmar | I read Ringworld |
| 07:10.06 | Jamash | anyway he's called a hard sci-fi author |
| 07:10.36 | Dagmar | More of a 50/50 mix in his case |
| 07:10.48 | Jamash | yeah but a mix of what |
| 07:10.57 | Dagmar | Heinlien's idea of SF |
| 07:11.01 | Dagmar | hehe |
| 07:11.30 | Jamash | I would describe Niven as being a science con artist |
| 07:11.38 | *** join/#wowuidev digmouse|work (~chatzilla@124.205.218.2) |
| 07:11.45 | Jamash | he just fools people into thinking there's science behind what he writes by using big words |
| 07:11.54 | Dagmar | It sells books, but more importantly, it apparently gets chicks |
| 07:12.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Krahg (~Krahg@121.136.59.215) |
| 07:12.13 | Dagmar | I'm pretty sure that was high on Heinlein's motivation list |
| 07:12.15 | Jamash | yay I'm in |
| 07:12.24 | Krahg | Howdy all |
| 07:12.32 | Jerub | alastair reynolds does hardish scifi |
| 07:12.39 | Krahg | In? Grats Jamash. |
| 07:12.50 | Dagmar | I kept reading about those people being at SF cons and being pretty irked because Heinlien would be walking around with multiple chicks |
| 07:12.58 | Jamash | hee |
| 07:13.24 | Dagmar | You write about chicks who treat sex like a gladiator sport, chicks who might be into that read it, come say hi at 'cons |
| 07:13.26 | Krahg | In this channel? |
| 07:14.21 | Jamash | ok, this character is level 11, why don't I have a talent pane |
| 07:14.32 | kd3 | relog |
| 07:15.00 | Dagmar | Snark alert! Straight line detected. |
| 07:15.36 | Jamash | kd3: thx that worked |
| 07:15.49 | Jerub | i like iain m banks because he talks about how scifi tech can change society, like asimov used to do. |
| 07:16.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~callahan@74-141-246-74.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 07:16.12 | Jamash | "Templar's Verdict"? I hope that name is placeholder |
| 07:17.08 | Jamash | okay so if a tank has 50k health, does that mean vengeance will give them up to 5k attack power? |
| 07:17.23 | Elkano | hmm... ist the 12635 installer the right one? |
| 07:17.29 | kd3 | yes |
| 07:17.32 | Dagmar | Jamash: That would be quite awesome |
| 07:17.32 | Fisker | nein Elkano |
| 07:17.38 | Jamash | ignore fisker |
| 07:17.45 | Elkano | who's fisker? |
| 07:17.49 | Jamash | good |
| 07:18.07 | Elkano | ~fisker |
| 07:18.07 | purl | [fisker] like, the #wowace channel troll. worthless, or always one step ahead of the average troll, on fire |
| 07:18.13 | Fisker | whatever do you mean Jamash? |
| 07:18.22 | Elkano | ~emulate fisker |
| 07:18.23 | purl | emulate fisker is, like, "<reply> OH MY GOD I AM GOING TO CUM" |
| 07:18.29 | Elkano | ~emulate fisker- |
| 07:18.29 | purl | DISCLAIMER - The views of Fisker- do not necessarily represent this channel or its inhabitents. The Fisker- regularly browses 4chan looking for CP, or at least JB, and tries to convert more followers to his cause everyday. He says he's just a fan of "Captain Picard" and "Joe Bishop", but we know better, right? We think he's just here to try and get more CP, so watch out! - END DISCLAIMER |
| 07:18.53 | Elkano | seems to be on 'good' relation with purl ;) |
| 07:19.03 | Jamash | i think fisker is a pretty cool guy, eh trolls irc and doesn't afraid of anything |
| 07:19.51 | Dagmar | He doesn't take trolling _too far_ |
| 07:20.03 | Elkano | saying such things, you don't happen to be his gay lover, do you? |
| 07:20.21 | Jamash | Dagmar: And I say your 0.5% titanium tax doesn't go _too far enough_! |
| 07:20.39 | Dagmar | No, there's other guys on IRC I've seen go months without saying anything even remotely nice to anyone |
| 07:21.09 | Jamash | I wish I could turn class colors on for all chat channels all the time with one click |
| 07:23.14 | Jamash | or failing that, I wish they defaulted to "on" |
| 07:27.13 | *** join/#wowuidev SeanK (~SeanK@pool-98-117-120-73.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 07:28.28 | Fisker | heh |
| 07:28.37 | Fisker | half the wotlk manual is just the credits |
| 07:29.18 | industrial | I want to start the recruit-a-friend today and I am wondering how it works. |
| 07:29.21 | Krahg | I agree with you Jamash, My chat never looks right until I turn each character's class colors on 1 by 1. |
| 07:29.33 | Jamash | I'ma submit a suggestion |
| 07:29.35 | Fisker | you recruit a friend industrial |
| 07:29.38 | Krahg | Industrial, the recruit a friend is awesome! |
| 07:29.45 | Jamash | oh frack |
| 07:29.50 | industrial | I understands that I can't give myself levels and that we have to give eachother levels. Will we gain these extra levels WHILE levelingA? |
| 07:29.57 | Jamash | the bug ui is gone |
| 07:30.10 | industrial | I am wondering if we can just level a char to 30 and have it be 60 |
| 07:30.15 | Krahg | Your recruit is the oly one who can grant levels |
| 07:30.18 | Fisker | The recruited gets a level he can grant a character on your account every 2 levels |
| 07:30.52 | industrial | ok, but the recruited still gets 300% exp, even while soloing? |
| 07:30.56 | Fisker | And you can't grant levels beyond the level of the character granting them |
| 07:31.03 | Fisker | only while partying industrial |
| 07:31.13 | Krahg | no, the 300% is only while you are together in a party within 100 yards |
| 07:31.13 | Fisker | And party penalties also apply |
| 07:31.15 | industrial | sadfjasdf this guy is a slowass : |
| 07:31.17 | industrial | :| |
| 07:31.22 | Fisker | so it's more like 150% for mobs, 300% for quests and so on |
| 07:31.26 | industrial | k |
| 07:31.30 | Krahg | and I tested that and the 100 yards is very generous |
| 07:32.38 | Krahg | I ran away from my recruit with the mini-map zoomed out to maximum, and we still got the party bonus even though they were completely off the mini-map |
| 07:32.43 | Fisker | btw kd3 |
| 07:32.57 | Fisker | it seems like the in-game download doesn't at all upload |
| 07:33.46 | Krahg | We tested Heirlooms as well and we both got heirlooms bonuses. Only 20% though since my recruit doesn't have the ring. |
| 07:34.08 | industrial | Also, this 300% bonus - is it time limited or just one character? Can I level more chars with 300%? |
| 07:34.16 | Krahg | 90 days or level 60 |
| 07:34.30 | industrial | hm, so level 59 and hten another 59 works? :P |
| 07:34.31 | Krahg | and it does not seem to have a limite on the number of characters |
| 07:34.44 | Krahg | right |
| 07:34.53 | industrial | figured if I can take the other guys account and play with 2 wow's open I can level chars whenever I want |
| 07:35.03 | industrial | within that 90 days |
| 07:35.07 | Krahg | yep yep |
| 07:35.29 | Krahg | (barring any tos/eula account sharing violations) |
| 07:35.57 | Krahg | That really shuoldn't be a problem if you both play from the same general region though |
| 07:37.03 | Krahg | The videos you see of people getting to level 60 in ten minutes are done by the recruit gaining to level 60s then granting all the levels to a character on the first account. |
| 07:37.19 | Krahg | One think I want to test... |
| 07:37.32 | Krahg | but can't because my recruit didn't up grade to wrath |
| 07:37.34 | SeanK | 3 accounts is really the way to go. have an 80 on one account with the other two RAFed together. Have the 80 run you through instances for triple XP. I remember when I got my RAFed toons to 58, ran them through Ramps, BF, and half of SP before they dinged 60 and stopped getting the triple XP |
| 07:37.59 | Dashkal | Is there a mirror for the beta client? I'm getting 12k a sec only from the http. no peers. |
| 07:38.14 | kd3 | cancel it and resume it. you'll go faster |
| 07:38.23 | Krahg | can one player make a DK then summon the second via 'summon friend' to the Accerus... where they might attempt to by a bone griphon |
| 07:38.48 | durcyn | skeletal gryphons are class restricted |
| 07:39.10 | Krahg | I am pretty sure I knew that... but the first part still stands. |
| 07:39.18 | durcyn | hop on beta, fly up to acherus, see for yourself |
| 07:39.42 | Krahg | Hmm, once invited I will have to give that a shot. |
| 07:40.02 | Krahg | I told my friend how to fly to dancing troll villiage |
| 07:40.14 | Krahg | once he got there... there is now a path open to it. |
| 07:40.16 | Elkano | if the friend summon works, you should summon a warlock and port your whole guild there |
| 07:40.43 | Krahg | Yep :) |
| 07:40.58 | Fisker | damn kd3 |
| 07:41.00 | Fisker | i almost came |
| 07:41.19 | Fisker | my flying mount worked in silvermoon |
| 07:41.21 | Krahg | I think it would be a pretty cool screen shot for a guild or group of friends. Or even just for my first primary character. |
| 07:41.27 | Elkano | would have been a nice screenshot for the guild contest ^^ |
| 07:41.56 | Dashkal | Ugh. Restarting the downloader just killed it entirely. 0k/s |
| 07:42.04 | Krahg | I missed the guild contest somehow. Even the essay one, and I am sure I could have come up with a nice essay. |
| 07:42.24 | Fisker | Thank you for helping us test the beta kd3 |
| 07:43.12 | Krahg | I read Wowhead every day, and MMO Champion regular. I have no idea how I missed that. Oh well. I still have hope though I guess. |
| 07:44.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Eluna (~Eluna@87-2-9.connect.netcom.no) |
| 07:44.15 | Fisker | no freaking way |
| 07:44.19 | Fisker | haha awesome |
| 07:44.42 | Krahg | Three players from my primary character's guild quit playing recently... they won the lottery and got invites. One of them said it wasn't even enough to renew subscription at this point. |
| 07:44.53 | Fisker | there's this hobgoblin carriage that you can jump on and travel on :P |
| 07:45.40 | Elkano | Krahg, iirc some friends of mine got in with this shot: http://www.abload.de/img/checkdemv5v3.jpg |
| 07:45.45 | *** join/#wowuidev durcyn (~durcyn@WoWUIDev/Durcyn) |
| 07:45.51 | Krahg | My friend that got invited only plays a few hours a week. |
| 07:46.41 | Krahg | I like it Elkano |
| 07:46.42 | Elkano | well, being addon developer sure helped me to get in ;) |
| 07:47.14 | Krahg | I have an add-on and I haven't been denied yet even if I am not big wig like some of you. |
| 07:47.29 | Krahg | It gives me more hope than the lottery, so I am happy :) |
| 07:47.47 | Fisker | looks like the southshore npc's didn't get the memo |
| 07:47.59 | kd3 | hilsbrad's not up yet |
| 07:48.03 | kd3 | few weeks out |
| 07:48.23 | Krahg | I found out my add-on is actually earning me money sort of on one site I uploaded to. They have a rewards program and you can buy gift cards with the points they give you. |
| 07:49.28 | Fisker | what do you care kd3 |
| 07:49.41 | Fisker | you're going to be thanked for helping us test the beta in a few minutes anyway |
| 07:49.56 | durcyn | how have you helped test the beta today, Fisker |
| 07:50.29 | Krahg | Yeah, my curiosity is peaked as well now Fisker... |
| 07:50.30 | Fisker | given feedback on the new launcher durcyn |
| 07:50.39 | Fisker | what's this got to do with me? |
| 07:51.09 | durcyn | piqued* |
| 07:51.44 | durcyn | or not, i give up |
| 07:53.26 | Krahg | Thanks Durcyn :) I have learned something today. |
| 07:55.15 | Jamash | So if the new beta installer installs all the locales, does that mean I can flip a switch and get german voices? |
| 07:57.19 | Fisker | haven't found one yet |
| 07:57.33 | Jamash | boo |
| 07:57.56 | Jamash | I wanna hear what the lich king sounds like in german |
| 07:58.20 | *** join/#wowuidev WobWork (~Wobwork@234.128.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 07:58.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@pool012.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 07:59.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 07:59.17 | Adys | <reply>Being able to exploit a setuid binary after mmap'ing page zero with executable shell code, via a phpbb vulnerability which is exposed because of lack of php filtering is like saying ... look, having arranged these six dominoes, I only need to push one over. |
| 07:59.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (~kalroth@mail1.retailplanit.com) |
| 08:00.30 | Jamash | hmm, if I put SET locale "deDE" in Config.wtf I get an error message I don't understand :( |
| 08:01.02 | Elkano | one does not simply set locale "deDE" into Mortor! |
| 08:01.04 | Fisker | oh my god it's a chess board |
| 08:01.24 | durcyn | try enGB, see if that gives you a readable error |
| 08:01.45 | Krahg | Are these options available in the EU client? |
| 08:01.48 | Fisker | did the world server just go down? |
| 08:02.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 08:02.22 | Jamash | Der Launcher kann keine Patch-Informationen abrufen. Bitte überprüfen Sie Ihre Internetverbindung. |
| 08:02.30 | kd3 | wishes he could get to 27% so he could log in |
| 08:03.00 | Elkano | The launcher couldn't acquire patch information. Check your connection. |
| 08:03.01 | Fisker | 27%? |
| 08:03.24 | kd3 | or whatever number it is. I'm at 26% and still red. the yellow line's a few pixels away from the bar |
| 08:03.55 | Jamash | hmf |
| 08:04.08 | kd3 | it took a good 30 minutes after the initial install finished and the launcher came up. lots of hdd grinding |
| 08:04.12 | Elkano | vista is strange... by starting to install the beta, my free disc space jumped from 29GB to 36GB... |
| 08:04.28 | Jamash | huh, even esMX doesn't work |
| 08:04.55 | Fisker | weird |
| 08:04.59 | Fisker | mine was yellow at like 5% |
| 08:05.01 | Fisker | if even that |
| 08:05.08 | Jamash | it depends on your bandwidth |
| 08:05.31 | Fisker | pwnt kd3 |
| 08:05.35 | Jamash | http://ak.worldofwarcraft.com.edgesuite.net/wow-pod/config_EFEE647739B2BEBEF91EAD2A14C5A66B.xml |
| 08:05.51 | kd3 | like it's a big surprise how horrid my connectivity is |
| 08:06.50 | Fisker | the in-game download is ages faster than the downloader |
| 08:06.50 | Jamash | try haxoring World of Warcraft Beta\WTF\Launcher.WTF |
| 08:06.50 | Fisker | But you have to go flying to get it stressed out |
| 08:06.50 | zenzio | http://icanhascheezburger.com/2010/08/04/funny-pictures-video-tiger-catnip/ - this video is awesome |
| 08:06.54 | tlund | perhaps because the in-game download uses the CDN? |
| 08:07.20 | Fisker | they both do |
| 08:07.29 | Fisker | the in-game just isn't stressed by p2p |
| 08:07.36 | Fisker | but i also think there's something else going on |
| 08:07.41 | Jamash | I would try SET requiredCompleted "1" kd3 |
| 08:08.00 | Fisker | I think they're prioritizing downloading in-game for a smooth experience |
| 08:09.27 | *** join/#wowuidev augustl (~augustl@77.40.182.218) |
| 08:09.44 | Jamash | the downloader thinks it's going to finish 14 GB in the next 30 minutes |
| 08:10.06 | Jamash | I admire its ambition, but doubt its capability. |
| 08:10.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 08:12.12 | Krahg | I called my friend over, what do I need to do to try out the new launcher? Should we delete his install folder? |
| 08:12.38 | Jamash | run the beta uninstaller then get the new installer from battle.net |
| 08:12.40 | mikma | krahg: first you both remove all of your clothes. |
| 08:12.48 | Jamash | ~mikma++ |
| 08:12.51 | mikma | krahg: then you butter each other with something slippery |
| 08:13.10 | Krahg | mikma ... |
| 08:14.17 | mikma | and then...... |
| 08:14.39 | Krahg | Should I give a verbose description of what we do from there? |
| 08:14.40 | mikma | NSFW NSFW NSFW http://reaktio.net/~pk/video/Jos_sun_lysti_on_niin_kates_yhteen_lyo.mpg |
| 08:15.25 | Trela | Wait wait wait. Mikma link. *Moves mouse away.* |
| 08:15.53 | Trela | DAMN YOU CURIOSITY! |
| 08:16.05 | Jamash | your intuition serves you well young jedi |
| 08:17.00 | Jamash | 14.0GB remaining, Estimated time left: About 11 minutes |
| 08:19.44 | Fisker | i wonder what that uselocalmpqs cvar is for btw :o |
| 08:20.03 | Jamash | good question |
| 08:20.04 | Jamash | I was just looking at that |
| 08:20.17 | *** join/#wowuidev pnorman (~pnorman@d66-183-43-190.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 08:20.19 | kd3 | http://xkcd.com/612/ |
| 08:20.31 | Jamash | what are the login server settings for europe? |
| 08:21.03 | Fisker | the same |
| 08:21.25 | Jamash | then why can't I play in wacky foreign languages :( |
| 08:21.25 | Fisker | blizzard are jerks btw |
| 08:24.09 | industrial | so is your mum |
| 08:24.11 | Arrowmaster | http://www.enricozini.org/2010/cazzeggio/when-a-framework-is-worth-of-any-attention/ |
| 08:24.14 | Arrowmaster | ohh python burn |
| 08:26.32 | Kalroth | Excellent! |
| 08:26.55 | Trela | Arrowmaster: Awesome. |
| 08:27.00 | Jamash | "In light of this rule, I regret to notice that I see very few python web frameworks worth of any attention." |
| 08:27.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@dsl4E5C05AD.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 08:27.08 | Arrowmaster | seriously whats the deal with python and all these either custom or nonstandard installation methods? |
| 08:27.37 | Jamash | s/python web frameworks/software packages of any kind/ |
| 08:27.56 | Fisker | I GOT BARRENS'D |
| 08:28.38 | industrial | what's the deal with every language now having its own software and library repository |
| 08:29.10 | Arrowmaster | industrial: you mean like CPAN and rubygems and whatever the hell that lua one is? |
| 08:29.19 | industrial | luarocks and pypi and etc |
| 08:29.33 | Arrowmaster | yeah not sure on that either |
| 08:29.36 | Trela | Yeah... The Ruby one is annoying. |
| 08:29.50 | Fisker | btw kd3 you really are |
| 08:29.59 | Trela | It took me a good hour to realize they were talking about these gems that were actually installation packages, but never explicitly said that. |
| 08:30.12 | industrial | what's wrong with downloading a library of interpreted code and 'putting it in vendor/' ? :P |
| 08:30.17 | Jamash | okay so the launcher doesn't work if you change the locale by hand but running wow.exe does :3 |
| 08:30.28 | Arrowmaster | i think one of them was actually a major bitch to get working in debian because of how strict the policy is on where packages are allowed to create files that dont come in the package |
| 08:30.52 | Arrowmaster | i think it was rubygems |
| 08:31.03 | industrial | Arrowmaster: I think the repos are a fine thing, but then distro's and OSes shouldn't package the libs separately .. in their own packages |
| 08:31.22 | Jamash | why not? |
| 08:32.05 | Arrowmaster | then you get the situation that you just downloaded the debian bluray image and burned it, youve got the entire fucking debian repo on a fucking disc and you cant even use certain parts of it without internet access |
| 08:32.30 | Mike-N-Go | Night. |
| 08:32.40 | kd3 | ok, I give up. gonna crash and leave it running in the background. |
| 08:32.41 | Arrowmaster | lua> 4.38*30 |
| 08:32.45 | lua_bot | Arrowmaster: 131.4 |
| 08:32.52 | Arrowmaster | ok not one bluray |
| 08:32.52 | Jamash | in my experience, installing a perl library via apt+dpkg tends to work, while installing it via the cpan shell is a recipe for frustration and tears |
| 08:33.35 | Jamash | Arrowmaster: why can't you use it without net access? |
| 08:33.38 | Arrowmaster | anything required by another package needs to be available in a package |
| 08:33.54 | Trela | I just wish Ubuntu/Debian had a better package creator. |
| 08:34.11 | Arrowmaster | Trela: what do you mean? |
| 08:34.15 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 08:34.31 | Trela | There is a huuuuuuuuuge tutorial on how to make packages. I found it easier to just grab an existing package and edit the files inside. |
| 08:34.37 | Fisker | stop crashing the world servers |
| 08:34.38 | Fisker | jerk |
| 08:34.39 | Fisker | s |
| 08:35.25 | Arrowmaster | Trela: the new maintainers guide covers everything though, just copying another package can cause issues |
| 08:36.02 | Jamash | Hasenpfote |
| 08:36.05 | Trela | This was one off Ubuntu's site. It was messy and not stream lined. |
| 08:36.10 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 08:36.14 | Trela | Why am I so hot? Freaking 75F in here. |
| 08:36.37 | Arrowmaster | and really the new maintainers guide is supposed to be the guide you follow when making a package that you want to be accepted into debian in the future |
| 08:36.39 | Jamash | try reading the debian site first |
| 08:36.57 | Arrowmaster | http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ |
| 08:37.46 | Arrowmaster | tutorials on ubuntus site tend to be complete crap and more often wrong than right, especially if they are on the forums |
| 08:38.08 | Trela | Yeah, it is on the community wiki/documentation system. |
| 08:38.22 | Arrowmaster | i hate technical tutorials that just say 'ok now do this' instead of explaining WHY you are doing it |
| 08:39.09 | Jamash | oh my god german dwarves are adorable |
| 08:39.24 | Trela | Well, I am trying to solve a problem at work. We need to install at least nginx 0.7.66. However, they are still stuck on .65.(.66/.67 have a bunch of good fixes.) We are fine just hitting apt-get install for a package, but they lag behind by up to four months some times. |
| 08:40.11 | Arrowmaster | unless the process is either fucking dead simple or your tutorial is completely fucking bulletproof, somebody is going to have a problem and they are going to have a hell of a lot easier time if they actually have a clue of why they are doing these steps or what exactly they do instead of just steps expected to be blindly followed |
| 08:40.12 | Trela | So our proposed solution is to make our own nginx package to put in a local apt-get repository. |
| 08:41.05 | Arrowmaster | Trela: http://packages.debian.org/sid/nginx |
| 08:41.15 | Arrowmaster | prepare for pm spam |
| 08:41.36 | Trela | O_O |
| 08:41.48 | Arrowmaster | its a perl bot |
| 08:42.33 | Arrowmaster | Trela: so have i solved your problem for you? |
| 08:42.46 | Trela | Um, maybe? I am working with Ubuntu. |
| 08:42.56 | Arrowmaster | bah |
| 08:43.20 | Trela | I may see if I can just "branch" it on Launchpad. |
| 08:43.39 | sylvanaar | theres not an addons button on the new beta client, whats up with that |
| 08:44.01 | Trela | sylvanaar: They want the new WoW interface tested before people start loading AddOns. |
| 08:44.22 | Arrowmaster | Trela: looks like nginx in ubuntu is in universe which means they just copy the debian version |
| 08:44.35 | Trela | That sounds easy then. :D |
| 08:45.05 | Trela | o.o |
| 08:45.08 | Trela | "You are here because Launchpad uses the Launchpad Login Service." |
| 08:45.16 | *** join/#wowuidev zenzio_ (~zenzio__@85.19.77.194) |
| 08:45.17 | Trela | Well, is that true, Launchpad? |
| 08:45.57 | sylvanaar | Trela: i got that, but now the addons button is even gone |
| 08:46.02 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (harl@dslb-088-077-204-224.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 08:46.21 | harl | hi |
| 08:46.26 | augustl | Trela: you can just make your own deb can't you? |
| 08:46.43 | Arrowmaster | Trela: i would still suggest setting up a local repository though and only doing the 'simple sid backport' once on a test machine running the same version of ubuntu as the others |
| 08:46.50 | augustl | Trela: you can even build it from source yourself. There's also a command you can proxy "make install" through that'll make a deb out of the source install |
| 08:46.55 | Arrowmaster | and just copy the .deb you get from that to the local repo |
| 08:47.40 | Trela | So simple sid backport will take a release from a development/newer Debian/Ubuntu to an older one? |
| 08:48.00 | Trela | augustl: What I have been doing and making a tarball to distribute to the servers. |
| 08:48.16 | Arrowmaster | all it does its takes the source files and compiles it locally and puts in into the .deb |
| 08:48.37 | Trela | That sounds easy. :D |
| 08:49.01 | Arrowmaster | just like how the binary .debs are made, except you are doing it against depandancy versions on your local machine so there shouldnt be any ABI conflicts |
| 08:50.06 | Arrowmaster | you dont want to use the binary that was built against all newer versions of every dependency on your production machines |
| 08:50.30 | Trela | Yeah, we have machine running our custom package now. |
| 08:50.40 | Trela | I could work from the source directory I have. |
| 08:51.17 | Arrowmaster | but you dont really want to be compiling on your production machines either which is why i say a local repo is probably best and just make the package on a test machine with the same ubuntu version as the production machines |
| 08:52.44 | Jamash | okay if anyone is on the beta and has a horde character |
| 08:52.50 | Arrowmaster | that or i could go into how to build the binary .debs in a clean room environment using pbuilder |
| 08:52.56 | Jamash | you have *got* to go see the troll warlock trainer in orgrimmar |
| 08:53.17 | Arrowmaster | Jamash: fraps it |
| 08:53.31 | Jamash | I don't have fraps |
| 08:53.36 | Trela | I need to sleep on this. o.o Head is spinning. |
| 08:53.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Droolio (~drool@87-194-188-170.bethere.co.uk) |
| 08:54.15 | Arrowmaster | Trela: i could do all the work for you, for a price |
| 08:54.21 | Jamash | lemme see if I can get the xfire recorder to work |
| 08:54.27 | Arrowmaster | Jamash: nooo |
| 08:54.43 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 08:54.43 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 08:54.58 | Trela | I can figure out, but it is almost 4AM here. By spinning I mean I am getting hot for no explainable reason and I feel weird. |
| 08:55.02 | Arrowmaster | i dont even think i can watch their shit because last i remember they used some third party plugin on their site |
| 08:55.07 | *** join/#wowuidev rikai (~rikai@cpe-184-153-144-194.maine.res.rr.com) |
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| 08:55.14 | *** join/#wowuidev roboe (~roboe@50A2E6C0.flatrate.dk) |
| 08:56.54 | Jamash | Trela: Heatstroke? |
| 08:57.02 | Trela | 75F in here! D: |
| 08:57.03 | Jamash | have you been drinking sufficient fluids? |
| 08:57.16 | Trela | I have water next to me. |
| 08:57.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Legorol (~legorol@cpc8-sgyl28-2-0-cust43.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 08:57.17 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Legorol] by ChanServ |
| 08:57.27 | Trela | Though my throat is oddly trying to stay dry. |
| 08:57.44 | zenzio_ | are you drinking the water or just looking at it? |
| 08:58.02 | Trela | Drinking. :P |
| 08:58.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Mike-N-Go (~Mike-N-Go@64.193.93.197) |
| 09:03.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~callahan@74-141-246-74.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
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| 09:05.03 | *** join/#wowuidev rikai (~rikai@unaffiliated/rikai) |
| 09:07.33 | augustl | Jamash: got a screenshot while we're waiting for the recording? ;) |
| 09:07.48 | Jamash | wow crashed :( |
| 09:07.54 | Jamash | and I'm too sleepy to load it up again |
| 09:08.10 | Jamash | zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz |
| 09:09.30 | *** join/#wowuidev roboe (~roboe@50A2E6C0.flatrate.dk) |
| 09:10.24 | Fisker | roboe |
| 09:11.36 | augustl | wait. Trolls can be warlocks? |
| 09:14.38 | *** join/#wowuidev |stefan| (~stefan@80.245.231.198) |
| 09:15.10 | Fisker | yeah old augustl |
| 09:15.26 | augustl | I'm not old! |
| 09:16.04 | augustl | I probably got interrupted by rofling when I saw tauren pally in the list so I never managed to read all the changes. |
| 09:18.07 | Fisker | no it's "recent" |
| 09:19.33 | augustl | ah |
| 09:19.37 | Legorol | anyone else in EU finding that battle.net account management is offering them an English (US) download for Cata Beta? |
| 09:19.44 | Fisker | (recent still being old of course) |
| 09:19.47 | Fisker | yeah Legorol |
| 09:19.53 | Fisker | client is universal, l2dealwithit |
| 09:19.56 | Fisker | ;3 |
| 09:20.48 | Fisker | :( |
| 09:21.00 | Legorol | ok that's cool |
| 09:21.06 | Legorol | but, isn't this supposed to be a streaming installer? |
| 09:21.14 | Legorol | why is it offering me a 680 Mb download? |
| 09:21.46 | Elkano | thought the same... at 67% installing with it currently though... |
| 09:22.01 | Legorol | when i click in account management, i get WOW_Cataclysm_Beta_enUS.exe, which proceeds to download Cataclysm-Beta-Installer-4.0.0.12635-enUS |
| 09:22.07 | Legorol | is this what others are getting too? |
| 09:22.13 | Elkano | yeah |
| 09:22.20 | Legorol | doesn't sound very streaming, hmm |
| 09:22.34 | Elkano | well, maybe once it installed |
| 09:25.20 | Legorol | another thing i find suspicious is that it has WoW-3.3.0.10958-4.0.0.12635-x86-Win-enUS.part. doesn't sound like a streaming installer from scratch 0 if it's patching from a live install |
| 09:28.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Eluna (~Eluna@87-2-9.connect.netcom.no) |
| 09:28.54 | Fisker | man |
| 09:29.02 | Fisker | where is this launcher trying to hide all it's data |
| 09:29.18 | Fisker | my WoW folder have barely grown in size |
| 09:31.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Esamynn|Away (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Esamynn) |
| 09:31.33 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Esamynn|Away] by ChanServ |
| 09:32.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@dsl4E5C05AD.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 09:33.19 | Elkano | Fisker, that's not the only of your parts that barely grows in size... |
| 09:37.41 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 09:39.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~callahan@74-141-246-74.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 09:40.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@dsl4E5C05AD.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 09:47.15 | Elkano | ok, Legorol, the streaming starts after you installed that patch |
| 09:50.09 | sylvanaar | i like the new downloader |
| 09:50.55 | Emmark | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDsah1zm5ew |
| 09:55.00 | Elkano | well, you also liked WW2, didn't you... |
| 10:07.47 | Spejnar | What stance does deterrenance count as? Trying to do a cancelaura macro |
| 10:10.36 | foxlit | Is that even a stance? |
| 10:11.18 | Spejnar | not sure, just wanna make a macro that can be spammed, so probably need to check for atleast 1 sec to pass |
| 10:12.25 | Spejnar | nice |
| 10:12.28 | Spejnar | it worked ^^ |
| 10:12.42 | Spejnar | run local exp=select(7, UnitBuff("player","Deterrence")) if exp then local tl=exp-GetTime() if tl<4 then CancelUnitBuff("player","Deterrence") end end |
| 10:31.04 | *** join/#wowuidev roboe (~roboe@50A2E6C0.flatrate.dk) |
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| 10:44.12 | amro | Fisker: try Program Files/Common Files/Blizzard Entertainment |
| 10:51.19 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 10:51.52 | Jerub | %$^$#^ someone turned icc buff off |
| 10:52.55 | |Jelly| | assholes |
| 10:55.07 | Kalroth | l2p! |
| 10:55.30 | Kalroth | Paragon killed LK 25-man heroic without the buff, so you should be able to as well! |
| 10:58.40 | amro | l2p! |
| 10:58.45 | amro | we took down LK 25 man heroic without any gear |
| 10:59.27 | Mike-N-Go | What is the issue-tracking system wowinterface uses? |
| 10:59.46 | haste | afaik, it's their own |
| 10:59.59 | Mike-N-Go | Proprietary, I see. |
| 11:00.05 | industrial | in house! |
| 11:00.12 | industrial | in house? ew. : |
| 11:00.14 | industrial | :| |
| 11:00.20 | Jerub | Kalroth: this is a 6/12 pug |
| 11:00.29 | haste | omg it's industrial |
| 11:00.39 | amro | he lives once more. |
| 11:09.38 | industrial | yes, it is I |
| 11:09.53 | industrial | rerolling on Turalyon on a different account (my third, then) |
| 11:09.56 | industrial | with recruit-a-friend |
| 11:10.00 | industrial | Horde, ofcourse. |
| 11:10.04 | haste | D: |
| 11:10.09 | haste | you suck at selecting realsm! |
| 11:10.15 | industrial | D: y |
| 11:10.20 | industrial | but colleagues etc |
| 11:10.25 | industrial | its pve so im good :3 |
| 11:10.59 | industrial | haste: where do you play then? I don't feel much like going back to GB |
| 11:12.07 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@217.203.185.246) |
| 11:16.29 | haste | industrial: I've kinda fallen out of it after the vacation, so I just log GB once in a while |
| 11:18.08 | industrial | im picking up pre-expo, hoping the hunter changes will make my new hunter (orc methinks) happy. |
| 11:18.35 | haste | people on beta tend to praise focus at least |
| 11:20.10 | zenzio_ | I am very intrigued by the focus thing... when playing my hunter (which I'm admittedly not very good at) I felt I kept having to switch to Aspect of the Viper too often (or sit and drink) if I wanted to do anything besides Serpent Sting and the odd ability |
| 11:21.43 | industrial | I'm still best with hunter. The kite feeling, wanting to be far from your target just becomes natural after some time :P weird playing a meelee after |
| 11:22.27 | zenzio_ | in some ways I agree, but that's probably because I started out in Anarchy Online, where there was only three melee classes or something like that |
| 11:22.40 | zenzio_ | but I started WoW as a warrior, and it was just the right class for me |
| 11:22.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Alram (~Marla@fabe.xs4all.nl) |
| 11:23.14 | industrial | my first MMO was AO =) I was 13 at the time though |
| 11:23.14 | industrial | then DaoC |
| 11:23.32 | industrial | even did beta for DaoC o_O |
| 11:23.33 | zenzio_ | I was... 18 or 19 when I started playing AO |
| 11:23.46 | zenzio_ | still miss it a lot, I liked a lot of the mechanics; but it's far too dated today |
| 11:23.46 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI (~chatzilla@ip68-5-216-156.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 11:24.01 | industrial | y7eah |
| 11:24.12 | industrial | the'yve been talking about 'the new engine' for literally years now |
| 11:24.24 | zenzio_ | they are getting close |
| 11:24.27 | industrial | the first real shots of textures on 'the new models' i saw looked horrible compared to today's mmo's :( |
| 11:24.44 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI|work (~KarlKFI|w@adcom005v.adcom.uci.edu) |
| 11:24.49 | industrial | still, I'd rather want them to do it =) and a few shots doesn't say much |
| 11:25.08 | zenzio_ | the thing is they can't really go back and redo all models and textures, so it will make it better, but only so much |
| 11:26.05 | industrial | I wonder how an 'agile' approach would go with MMO's |
| 11:26.16 | industrial | small cycles of 1-2 weekr with small product releases |
| 11:26.25 | industrial | 'here's 30 new models' |
| 11:26.37 | zenzio_ | I think it could work to some degree, but you'd have to do it from the start so it was planned out how it would work |
| 11:26.46 | krka | i am doing that at the moment |
| 11:26.50 | krka | but not full time, so it's slow |
| 11:27.27 | industrial | it works fine for the web (stick BETA on it, etc) |
| 11:27.31 | industrial | so why not for games :) |
| 11:27.51 | haste | you'd still have to do cycles with games, due to complexity of code |
| 11:27.56 | zenzio_ | again, I just think it depends how you introduce it |
| 11:28.01 | haste | models and so on you can pretty much push out as it gets done |
| 11:28.04 | zenzio_ | it would probably be easier for art than code |
| 11:28.22 | industrial | yea |
| 11:29.17 | *** join/#wowuidev roboe (~roboe@50A2E6C0.flatrate.dk) |
| 11:36.35 | krka | my experience is that you sometimes need to rework content after adding / changing features or modifying game engine, so we try not to introduce too much content too early |
| 11:43.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~callahan@74-141-246-74.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 11:52.13 | amro | nonsense, krka. you just write hacks around everything |
| 11:52.16 | amro | that's how every game dev does it. |
| 11:52.52 | amro | the wz2100 source made me cry |
| 11:52.59 | haste | industrial: why do you only idle here btw :D ? |
| 11:55.52 | industrial | fo gweat gwowy |
| 11:55.59 | zenzio_ | amro: wz2100? |
| 11:56.08 | amro | warzone 2100 |
| 11:56.17 | amro | the source code was released a while back |
| 11:56.42 | amro | http://wz2100.net/ |
| 11:57.04 | *** join/#wowuidev boshi_dev (~chris@c-68-36-37-83.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 12:00.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (~xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 12:01.42 | krka | amro: agreed, my project is an experiment to see if you can build a game without any hacks |
| 12:02.32 | Kalroth | hah |
| 12:02.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Alram (~Marla@fabe.xs4all.nl) |
| 12:02.53 | augustl | what about the source code of John Carmacks games? |
| 12:04.55 | amro | you can, it just depends on how much requirements change |
| 12:05.13 | amro | the thing about most games is that the developers don't have to come back to the source, so it's okay to hack around to meet deadlines |
| 12:05.28 | krka | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:05.39 | amro | you're a madman |
| 12:07.46 | krka | Uh, what? Oh, yeah, they say madness runs in our family. Some even call me mad. And why? Because I dared to dream of my own race of atomic monsters, atomic supermen with octagonal shaped bodies that suck blood... |
| 12:08.09 | Spejnar | that sounds awesome |
| 12:08.36 | amro | yes |
| 12:08.38 | amro | that's not mad at all |
| 12:12.25 | zenzio_ | I thought that was Twilight |
| 12:14.11 | Fisker | anyone know in which dimension the new wow launcher hides it's data? |
| 12:16.59 | Xinhuan | you could use sysinternal's process manager and find out which file handles it has open :) |
| 12:17.26 | krka | anyone have current cataclysm beta working in wine? |
| 12:18.47 | Stanzilla | krka: go read #wowace :p |
| 12:21.25 | Fisker | soon Kalroth |
| 12:21.36 | Fisker | soon kd3 will be thanked for helping us test the cataclysm beta |
| 12:21.40 | Fisker | and it will be grand |
| 12:22.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (~Lopeppepp@141.222.30.166) |
| 12:22.12 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 12:24.52 | Fisker | doh |
| 12:25.02 | Lopeppeppy | 8 more hours until vacation!!! |
| 12:25.07 | zenzio_ | :-) |
| 12:25.09 | Fisker | i just had a silly realization |
| 12:25.14 | zenzio_ | snuggles Lopeppeppy |
| 12:25.49 | Fisker | The new WoW installer pre-allocates harddrive space for the content |
| 12:26.07 | Lopeppeppy | Oh, fun that, Fisker. |
| 12:26.15 | Lopeppeppy | zenzio_, I'm sooooo going on vacation soon! |
| 12:26.23 | zenzio_ | :-) |
| 12:26.28 | Fisker | Was wondering why my WoW copy wasn't gaining in size |
| 12:26.32 | Fisker | :( |
| 12:27.10 | Emmark | :) hehe |
| 12:28.08 | Emmark | well atleast it wasn't saving it in some obscure location noone could find |
| 12:28.42 | Fisker | baw |
| 12:28.45 | Fisker | all servers down |
| 12:29.16 | Fisker | oh sweet |
| 12:29.26 | Fisker | now everything is red instead of being green |
| 12:32.12 | Jerub | sigh, get to rotface and epople don't the fight, and other people have to go :/ |
| 12:32.53 | zenzio_ | for some reason I read that as "roflface" |
| 12:33.18 | Fisker | i don't the fight either |
| 12:33.31 | Fisker | what is fight? |
| 12:39.56 | Lopeppeppy | kill things. don't die. don't stand in the goo. |
| 12:40.51 | industrial | misses and gets oneshot before reaching the goo |
| 12:43.19 | Lopeppeppy | next time, bring your towel |
| 12:44.32 | mikma | nsfw, http://pics.kuvaton.com/bshit/lonkeroa.jpg |
| 12:47.06 | Jerub | mikma: that's sfw |
| 12:47.32 | Jerub | mikma: unless say, you work for octopus rescue or a vegitarian restaraunt |
| 12:50.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (Vilkku@styrkeforhold.dy.asm.fi) |
| 12:55.36 | mikma | jerub: i had to tag it, believe me |
| 12:55.51 | mikma | if i would have left it out, ameridorks would have eaten my brain |
| 12:58.22 | Fisker | ah how i admire Microsoft's attempt at flagging programs that can be used to bypass their activation as malware |
| 12:58.44 | Fisker | Now they even warn (after i specifically told it to allow it) that my computer is potentially compromised ;3 |
| 13:02.40 | *** join/#wowuidev augustl (~augustl@6.79-160-9.customer.lyse.net) |
| 13:06.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Irish` (Irish@cpe-066-056-188-038.sc.res.rr.com) |
| 13:07.13 | Ycarene | The next time some asshole pulls ahead of me, I'm sitting down and watching him die. |
| 13:08.52 | *** join/#wowuidev pnorman (~pnorman@d154-5-171-108.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 13:10.54 | Lopeppeppy | I hate being rushed... |
| 13:11.09 | zenzio | calms Lopeppeppy |
| 13:11.14 | *** join/#wowuidev ckramme (~claus.kra@92.243.255.50) |
| 13:11.17 | Ycarene | heh, ok, so I'm not being unreasonable? |
| 13:12.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Morwrath (~zsc@unaffiliated/morwrath) |
| 13:14.57 | Lopeppeppy | No, you're not. I always go at the tank's pace, 'cause they keep me alive. Seems reasonable to me. |
| 13:15.08 | Lopeppeppy | This hyper-focus on "let's do this faster!!!" drives me crazy |
| 13:16.03 | zenzio | seconded |
| 13:16.34 | *** join/#wowuidev fiphi (fiphi@fiphi.se) |
| 13:16.44 | Ycarene | Had a DK that kept sending his jumpy little pet in first, I'd have let him die, except the healer kept getting aggro trying to keep him alive. |
| 13:16.48 | Dagmar | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:17.02 | Jerub | I tank lots. |
| 13:17.28 | Jerub | I a) always gearcheck healer b) do first two pulls slowly. |
| 13:17.45 | Jerub | sometimes i'll see they're a kingslayer and i'll say something like /p Press 1 to Chainpull. |
| 13:17.47 | zenzio | the good thing about being a tank is I can afford to say "you either go at my pace, or you replace me" |
| 13:17.50 | Jerub | and if they respond 1111111111111111 |
| 13:18.01 | Jerub | then i know i'm good |
| 13:18.23 | Ycarene | I should put together a macro that explains my "rules" |
| 13:18.40 | Dagmar | Jerub: Because they don't understand English? |
| 13:19.04 | Dagmar | Oh, nevermind me. Just work up |
| 13:19.04 | Jerub | Dagmar: no, because they're enthusiastically saying, "please chainpull mr tank sir" |
| 13:19.07 | Dagmar | er woke up |
| 13:19.43 | *** join/#wowuidev tlund (~tlund@envy.nxs.se) |
| 13:20.51 | Ycarene | So, honest opinion, could I tank sarth or maly? |
| 13:21.17 | zenzio | insufficient info |
| 13:21.38 | Ycarene | http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Destromath&cn=Pella |
| 13:22.46 | Ycarene | I know there's an upgrade or two I should be going for... |
| 13:25.55 | Morwrath | You could easily tank it |
| 13:26.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Mihau (~asmith@69.73.16.202) |
| 13:27.06 | Fisker | http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/0a4d42beff/eva-mendes-sex-tape |
| 13:27.07 | Fisker | wat. |
| 13:28.32 | Kalroth | :o |
| 13:28.33 | Fisker | so now is the time we manipulate google into thinking that Lopeppeppy sex tape is the biggest trend at the moment |
| 13:28.35 | Morwrath | is that some kind of sick joke |
| 13:28.37 | Morwrath | :| |
| 13:28.53 | Fisker | the sickest joke known to man |
| 13:29.38 | Lopeppeppy | Hey, you get me a sex tape, I'll make it hot. :P |
| 13:29.45 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (~Miranda@200.41.202.84.customer.cdi.no) |
| 13:29.50 | zenzio | makes note |
| 13:31.07 | Ycarene | That's hilarious |
| 13:33.32 | Kraps | http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/demotivational-posters-sex-tape.jpg |
| 13:35.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Odlaw (~ozzy@c-98-245-3-204.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 13:37.20 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (~smcn@c-174-52-104-121.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 13:38.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Osagasu (~Creek@67-197-1-37.rh1.dyn.cm.comporium.net) |
| 13:39.26 | Kraps | Time Warp no longer increases the Mage's movement speed. |
| 13:39.29 | Kraps | derp |
| 13:40.18 | Fisker | why should filming in high speed make a mage run faster? |
| 13:40.37 | Kraps | cuz your mom |
| 13:41.05 | Kraps | that was the mage hero/lust |
| 13:41.20 | Kraps | sooooo what happens now? |
| 13:41.45 | zenzio | I can only assume Kraps is actually talking to/with Fisker... or he's having a very interesting monologue |
| 13:43.10 | Kraps | 09:40 i was talking to fisker, the rest is addressed to the channel |
| 13:43.20 | Fisker | I can only imagine that frequently making people aware that you're ignoring someone, presumably because you don't care, really shows that you do not care |
| 13:44.00 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@77.96.110.28) |
| 13:44.08 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 13:47.01 | Kraps | Sin and Punishment *New* - When your Vampiric Touch is dispelled, the dispeller and all nearby enemy targets within 6 yards have a 50/100% chance to be instantly feared in horror for 3 sec. |
| 13:48.44 | mikma | meheh... |
| 13:48.49 | mikma | wowaccountadmin@blizzard.com to me |
| 13:48.53 | mikma | Greetings! |
| 13:48.53 | mikma | We are very sorry to inform you that your account occurred in the number of illegal transactions in a very long period of time. We have not received any complaints about your transactions. But if other players send complaints about your account to us, we will permanently ban your account. |
| 13:48.59 | mikma | sure ;D |
| 13:48.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Warloco (~theunknow@abarelds.xs4all.nl) |
| 13:49.06 | zenzio | I get like three of those per week |
| 13:49.21 | zenzio | and about the same number of "IP range" mails |
| 13:49.24 | Fisker | complains |
| 13:49.26 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 13:49.26 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 13:50.48 | Kraps | nobody with english as a first language says "greetings" |
| 13:51.04 | mikma | i can't find out the real address it was from |
| 13:51.25 | zenzio | often if I click "Show details" in Gmail, it seems to be going through Hotmail |
| 13:52.02 | mikma | too much spaces in the email too |
| 13:52.16 | mikma | also, sender is "Blizzard Entertainmen" ;) |
| 13:52.30 | mikma | mailed-by hotmail.com |
| 13:52.32 | mikma | there it is |
| 13:54.13 | Fisker | merlin did in SG-1 Kraps |
| 13:55.41 | Kraps | nice hat http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb21710/common/skins/common/blank.gif |
| 13:57.09 | DWSR | Anyone got a suggestion on a word processing app for Android? Looking for one with .doc and .docx support preferrably, but just .doc is fine. |
| 13:57.30 | mikma | kraps: yeah, blank.gif with 1x1 resolution, nice hat |
| 13:57.56 | Kraps | i was wondering why is said blank |
| 13:58.11 | Kraps | http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20050919172554/stargate/images/thumb/9/9d/Merlin.jpg/250px-Merlin.jpg |
| 13:58.29 | frontendloader | Kraps: actually Snoop Dogg does |
| 13:58.40 | frontendloader | "Greetings Loved Ones" |
| 13:58.41 | Kraps | does what? |
| 13:58.46 | Kraps | lol |
| 13:58.52 | frontendloader | dead serious |
| 13:58.59 | DWSR | Indeed |
| 13:59.06 | frontendloader | listen to the latest song he was on, California Girls by Katy Perry |
| 13:59.13 | Kraps | i did |
| 13:59.23 | Kraps | unfortunately |
| 13:59.33 | DWSR | Kraps: I picked up a remix, much better. |
| 13:59.35 | frontendloader | aw :( |
| 13:59.54 | Kraps | there are no country music stations in the nyc area |
| 13:59.55 | frontendloader | Its a good song, I love "bad" music aparently. |
| 14:00.00 | Kraps | it irks me |
| 14:01.18 | Kraps | frontendloader: i'm assuming you've heard tik tok also? |
| 14:02.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (Vilkku@styrkeforhold.dy.asm.fi) |
| 14:02.34 | *** join/#wowuidev cbreak_work (~cbreak@drz-wizzer.drz.ethz.ch) |
| 14:02.37 | mikma | kraps / frontendloader : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLrnAb9CdBo |
| 14:03.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Ressy (~valwws@CPE002129d9fabf-CM0014e88eec26.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 14:04.06 | Kraps | haha |
| 14:04.15 | Kraps | try this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JelGcEyS6Aw |
| 14:04.24 | DWSR | mikma: Did he horizontally flip the video on purpose? |
| 14:04.32 | DWSR | So that it would avoid the copyright detection? |
| 14:04.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Guardix (~Martin@0x5da165ee.hinqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 14:05.42 | Zyn | it seems like it's the new way to avoid the bleeding vaginas of copyright holders |
| 14:06.02 | DWSR | Pretty smart. |
| 14:08.55 | Kraps | also http://www.hpana.com/imageviewer.cfm?nid=21160&f=emmawatson-hair0.jpg |
| 14:09.20 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar_atwork (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 14:10.28 | Fisker | yeah |
| 14:10.34 | Fisker | you can also hear the sound being a bit odd |
| 14:10.38 | Fisker | keeps changing channels i believe |
| 14:11.08 | Fisker | it makes me sick |
| 14:11.14 | Kraps | i thought it was just a crappy upload or something |
| 14:14.19 | frontendloader | oh hell no |
| 14:15.27 | Shirik | Fisker |
| 14:15.33 | Fisker | Shiriker |
| 14:15.34 | Shirik | who do you think you are, mr. big stuff? |
| 14:15.39 | Fisker | i'm your mom |
| 14:15.54 | Kraps | so you have a vagina? |
| 14:17.07 | Fisker | no |
| 14:18.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Thaoky (Thaoky@75.61-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 14:18.10 | Kraps | http://www.hss.edu/newsroom_hss-ranked-first-2010-usnews.asp |
| 14:18.17 | Kraps | hugs HSS |
| 14:32.33 | Fisker | p9s Kraps |
| 14:34.49 | Ackis | I'm getting new doors installed today, I'm excited |
| 14:35.00 | Fisker | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV_Iy24pbeg <-i'm sure that people are going to leave the wings alone |
| 14:35.11 | Fisker | what about locks Ackis are you changing those? |
| 14:35.18 | Ackis | yes Fisker |
| 14:35.24 | Ackis | you won't be able to rape me anymore |
| 14:35.46 | Fisker | damn |
| 14:36.27 | Kraps | lol Children's Hospital Boston pwns everyone http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/pediatric-rankings |
| 14:38.44 | Ressy | Its not surprising. A lot of the women in the CHD baby group end up going across the country to have their children's heart surgeries/transplants at Boston's childrens hospital. |
| 14:39.00 | Ressy | in my* |
| 14:40.12 | Kraps | i had a specialized surgery there |
| 14:41.08 | Ressy | So whats everyone think of the latest beta patch being marked as Release? |
| 14:42.04 | Ressy | Kraps, I'm extremely grateful my little one hasn't needed heart surgery yet for the hole in his heart. |
| 14:45.34 | DWSR | Ductus Arteriosis is very common. |
| 14:45.42 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (spode@213.21.119.83) |
| 14:50.04 | zenzelezz | I think this picture sums up the popularity of Google Wave pretty well... http://nrkbeta.no/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/wavetrend.jpg |
| 15:04.18 | *** join/#wowuidev zenzio (~zenzio__@85.19.77.194) |
| 15:08.41 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 15:08.41 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 15:09.49 | Kraps | http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/102140-Blizzard-Dropped-Over-100-Million-On-StarCraft-II |
| 15:11.42 | Kraps | oh nvm |
| 15:11.49 | Kraps | [UPDATE]The Wall Street Journal admitted it made an error with the $100 million figure. It turns out that amount was spent on World of Warcraft, not StarCraft II. Blizzard hasn't released its budget for StarCraft II, but it probably cost somewhere between $1 million and $1 billion. |
| 15:14.17 | Zyn | "somewhere between $1 million and $1 billion" |
| 15:14.23 | Zyn | what an accurate estimation... |
| 15:15.09 | Kraps | i'm sure he was being facetious |
| 15:17.03 | Fisker | 100 million isn't completely accurate for WoW either :o |
| 15:17.18 | Fisker | unless they're talking like WoW + all expansions and patches |
| 15:17.23 | Fisker | then it may be |
| 15:22.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Schnaks (~Schnaks@p4FC4DA37.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:26.19 | Kraps | "Was that a review or an advert by Blizzard?" |
| 15:26.52 | Kraps | YES BECAUSE ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO LIKE SOMETHING YOU DONT |
| 15:29.07 | frontendloader | $100 million sounds pretty spot on for sc2 |
| 15:29.29 | frontendloader | considering how long it was in development |
| 15:30.02 | zenzelezz | I don't know about that |
| 15:30.24 | zenzelezz | how big do you suppose the SC2 team is? |
| 15:31.32 | Ackis | zenzelezz: the credits go on and on and on for SC2 ;P |
| 15:31.46 | Ackis | although, they do credit "YOUR MOM" |
| 15:32.14 | zenzelezz | the question is how long all those people are/were involved. I imagine WoW's team is many times bigger |
| 15:32.52 | amro | the largest sections by far were for customer service |
| 15:33.20 | amro | the actual dev team wasn't that big, but they did have a small army working on the cinematics |
| 15:33.24 | amro | and ingame cutscenes |
| 15:34.38 | zenzelezz | do you think the pre-rendered cutscenes were done in-house? (Actual question, I know there are companies that specialise in doing such things) |
| 15:35.14 | DWSR | Yes. |
| 15:35.15 | tlund | yes |
| 15:35.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (~Lunessa@WoWUIDev/Lunessa) |
| 15:35.38 | Lunessa | station |
| 15:35.41 | zenzelezz | must be a fun job either way |
| 15:36.04 | zenzelezz | but imagine the trouble if they decide half-way through to change the story :-p |
| 15:36.15 | DWSR | lulz |
| 15:37.31 | Fisker | Blizzard have an entire floor dedicated to cinematics |
| 15:37.39 | Fisker | as i recall it |
| 15:38.18 | DWSR | meh. |
| 15:38.20 | DWSR | SC2 timez. |
| 15:38.27 | DWSR | still haven't finished campaign. |
| 15:38.32 | DWSR | But LULZ TECH REACTOR |
| 15:38.47 | Kraps | thats looks cool DWSR |
| 15:38.57 | DWSR | Yeah |
| 15:39.03 | DWSR | Orbital Drop vs. Tech Reactor.... |
| 15:39.05 | DWSR | Tech Reactor. |
| 15:39.17 | Kraps | i hate that you need attachments though |
| 15:39.19 | DWSR | the top end zerg research is so fail thoug |
| 15:39.20 | DWSR | though* |
| 15:39.23 | Ackis | picked Tech Reactor |
| 15:39.31 | DWSR | Like, really? |
| 15:39.43 | Ackis | yeah actually |
| 15:39.46 | DWSR | I'm thinking of getting the Emulator. |
| 15:39.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Cide@hus110a.bobbnet.com) |
| 15:39.53 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 15:39.56 | DWSR | seems like Disrupter is pretty fail. |
| 15:40.02 | Fisker | get the one that slows |
| 15:40.05 | Ackis | after you beat the campaign, can you go back and buy the research you were missing? |
| 15:40.09 | Fisker | no Ackis |
| 15:40.11 | DWSR | no. |
| 15:40.13 | Ackis | fail SC2 |
| 15:40.20 | Fisker | the emulator has no use anyway |
| 15:40.22 | DWSR | How can you be missing research? |
| 15:40.25 | DWSR | Fisker: Really? |
| 15:40.29 | Fisker | the slower will help on the last missions |
| 15:40.37 | DWSR | mkay. |
| 15:40.38 | Fisker | You need to manually activate it |
| 15:40.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (kalroth@d40aa2a9.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 15:40.41 | Fisker | and it uses energy |
| 15:40.42 | Ackis | DWSR: armoury research |
| 15:40.43 | DWSR | oh, fucking fail. |
| 15:40.49 | Ackis | so I have to play a net new campaign to get my last achievements :( |
| 15:41.07 | Fisker | Ackis |
| 15:41.09 | Fisker | you got pwnt |
| 15:41.13 | Kraps | Ackis: play most of it on casual |
| 15:41.17 | Ackis | I did |
| 15:41.18 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 15:41.22 | Fisker | or you could just check a save before the campaign was done |
| 15:41.23 | Ackis | (get pwnt) |
| 15:41.46 | DWSR | I love all these SC1 units that are all here in SC2. |
| 15:41.51 | DWSR | Except for the fact that they're not. |
| 15:41.51 | Ackis | likes his Kerrigan avatar icon |
| 15:43.32 | DWSR | Is there enough credits in campaign to pick up every research, or no? |
| 15:43.34 | Fisker | kises Ackis |
| 15:43.37 | DWSR | I'm leaning towards no, but still. |
| 15:44.05 | Kraps | DWSR: a review i watched said no |
| 15:44.21 | Ackis | DWSR: no there isn't |
| 15:44.35 | Ackis | which is ANNOYING |
| 15:44.39 | Ackis | needs to find a cheat |
| 15:45.13 | Ackis | I still need to do 2 feats of strength for the campaign |
| 15:45.23 | Fisker | no Ackis |
| 15:45.24 | Ackis | and also need to do the one where you snipe 50 zerg in one shot |
| 15:45.30 | Fisker | you need to do the campaign without upgrades |
| 15:45.33 | Fisker | then save the game |
| 15:45.42 | Fisker | ??? |
| 15:45.43 | Fisker | profit |
| 15:46.21 | Kraps | huh? |
| 15:46.45 | Fisker | Use money on one category, reload the game, ???, profit |
| 15:47.05 | Kraps | huh? |
| 15:47.09 | Fisker | fuck you |
| 15:47.20 | Kraps | your mom did |
| 15:47.46 | Ackis | Fisker: that makes sense, but it assumes you know how the campaign works when you complete it :P |
| 15:48.06 | Fisker | The game autosaves anyway |
| 15:48.11 | Fisker | *coughs* |
| 15:48.35 | DWSR | 50 zerg in 1 shot is ezmode. |
| 15:48.39 | DWSR | Tac nukes. |
| 15:48.39 | DWSR | Win |
| 15:48.45 | Ackis | DWSR: sniper rifle |
| 15:49.04 | Fisker | also it's raynor not a ghost DWSR |
| 15:49.21 | Fisker | he has a rifle that can hit multiple units |
| 15:49.21 | Ackis | I got 49 on brutal |
| 15:49.26 | Ackis | pissed me off when I saw that stat |
| 15:50.01 | Lunessa | woooooo - gift bottle of Becheroka - http://www.originalabsinthe.com/becherovka-c-22.html |
| 15:51.04 | Kraps | bit too early to be drinking Lunessa |
| 15:51.07 | Kraps | ;) |
| 15:51.17 | Ackis | it's noon somewhere Kraps |
| 15:51.32 | Kraps | noon is early imo |
| 15:51.44 | Kraps | its 10 to noon here |
| 15:52.57 | Fisker | agreed with Kraps it's not noon anywhere |
| 15:53.16 | Fisker | i.e 12pm |
| 15:53.20 | Kraps | ur funy |
| 15:54.04 | Lunessa | Absinthe is for enjoying in a place which is not my office. |
| 15:54.09 | Fisker | almost done downloading cataclysm rawr |
| 15:54.18 | Ackis | the new launcher was released Fisker? |
| 15:54.34 | *** join/#wowuidev augustl (~augustl@6.79-160-9.customer.lyse.net) |
| 15:54.53 | Lunessa | Also, shouldn't drink Absinthe on an empty stomach. |
| 15:55.11 | Fisker | old Ackis |
| 15:55.24 | zenzelezz | should you drink anything on an empty stomach? |
| 15:55.28 | zenzelezz | I keep being told not to |
| 15:55.38 | Ackis | you just get drunk faster and feel sicker after |
| 15:55.52 | cogwheel | <3 bashiok http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/248105900?page=6#115 |
| 15:55.53 | zenzelezz | but you have less to throw up |
| 15:56.51 | Kraps | "Keeping people from seeing your hate speech and obscene images on our private game service is not the same as relinquishing your constitutional freedoms in the hopes of increased personal/familial security. Ben would tie you to a kite and let go of the string for making such comparisons." |
| 15:56.59 | cogwheel | ^ |
| 15:57.15 | Fisker | hehe cogwheel |
| 15:57.20 | Fisker | did you see why it was banned? |
| 15:57.30 | cogwheel | no |
| 15:57.30 | Fisker | At the end of the game the pathing cause a swastika :D |
| 15:57.39 | Kraps | wtf |
| 15:57.52 | cogwheel | -_- |
| 15:57.55 | Fisker | I just want to let you all know that we finally did recieve a response from Blizzard about a day or two after Ultimate Tank Defense was deleted. Apparently the problem with our map was that the wave pathing caused a certain anti-semite symbol to be displayed on the minimap. This was unintentional and we have since changed the way the units path. (You'll notice the spiffy new terrain.) We |
| 15:57.55 | Fisker | would've liked a bit of a warning before the map was deleted, however. Anything like this we would gladly change. |
| 15:58.00 | Fisker | http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/248296954 |
| 15:58.03 | Fisker | Though i agree with it |
| 15:58.10 | Fisker | just make it hidden |
| 15:58.15 | Fisker | allow the author to resubmit |
| 15:58.22 | Kraps | what does that mean " the pathing caused a swastika" |
| 15:58.35 | cogwheel | a swastika is a very generic shape |
| 15:59.10 | cogwheel | i can easily see it being unintentional |
| 15:59.35 | cogwheel | all you need is a 90 deg bend and some rotational symmetry |
| 16:00.19 | zenzelezz | "The map in question was deleted because the pathing caused them to make a specific anti-semitic symbol from September 15, 1935." |
| 16:00.25 | Fisker | What if i make a swastika with pylons in a league game, can i then get the blizzard map banned? |
| 16:01.09 | Ackis | I can make a swastika with my penis |
| 16:01.15 | Kraps | fisker |
| 16:01.18 | Fisker | gj |
| 16:01.19 | Kraps | ur funy |
| 16:01.58 | tlund | Ackis: pics plz! |
| 16:01.59 | Fisker | but as i said |
| 16:02.16 | Fisker | They should just somehow be able to block the version of the map but still have it retain it's other stats |
| 16:02.26 | Fisker | then you could republish after the mistake was fixed |
| 16:02.39 | Kraps | lol? http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/248296954?page=2#24 |
| 16:08.15 | sylvanaar_atwork | i just got one of these http://www.clear.com/spot/ispot what's to stop me from changing the mac address on my laptop to bypass the mac lock |
| 16:08.34 | sylvanaar_atwork | no pun intended |
| 16:13.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Yssaril (~kvirc@99-57-32-25.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 16:13.38 | Fisker | apple products can change mac addresses? |
| 16:14.20 | Lunessa | http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/8/4/ - this describes how I think my SC:II skills rate. |
| 16:15.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik_ (45455f22@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 16:15.03 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik_] by ChanServ |
| 16:15.06 | Shirik_ | cogwheel: save me |
| 16:15.07 | Fisker | they're playing on macs |
| 16:15.17 | Fisker | no wonder they're scared of "Easy" |
| 16:15.22 | Shirik_ | I think I just found the worst C++ code ever |
| 16:15.28 | cogwheel | prays that Shirik_ will be touched by His Noodly Appendage |
| 16:15.40 | Shirik_ | someone didn't like that in C++ you can't implicitly cast from void* to another pointer |
| 16:15.41 | Fisker | you don't have any access to my school projects Shirik |
| 16:15.49 | Shirik_ | so here's what they did |
| 16:16.08 | Shirik_ | http://pastey.net/139266 |
| 16:16.24 | cogwheel | exactly what i was imagining -_- |
| 16:16.35 | zenzelezz | Shirik_: always embarrassing to look at your old code |
| 16:16.38 | Fisker | so cogwheel |
| 16:16.51 | Shirik_ | I would never do that zenzelezz |
| 16:16.54 | Fisker | did you hear that kd3 is about to be thanked for his help with testing the cataclysm beta? |
| 16:16.54 | Shirik_ | I found it online |
| 16:16.55 | zenzelezz | not now |
| 16:17.05 | Shirik_ | somebody trying to complain that new/delete was "evil" |
| 16:17.08 | cogwheel | Shirik_: zenzelezz: http://cogwheel.pastey.net/138808 |
| 16:17.27 | cogwheel | self-taught 14-year-olds programming ^ |
| 16:17.38 | Shirik_ | lol I think you've shown me that before |
| 16:17.42 | Kraps | Fisker: i saw that post |
| 16:17.47 | cogwheel | I'm sure I have :P |
| 16:17.48 | Cide | I like your identation of numbers[10][7][5], cogwheel |
| 16:17.49 | Fisker | i was talking to cogwheel :( |
| 16:18.01 | Fisker | answer me you wheel of cogs |
| 16:18.24 | cogwheel | 4 |
| 16:18.25 | Shirik_ | Cide: I just like that it's called 'numbers" |
| 16:18.27 | Cide | actually I like it all |
| 16:18.29 | cogwheel | Fisker: there are four lights |
| 16:18.30 | Kraps | Lunessa: lol |
| 16:18.36 | Cide | Shirik_, haha, that too |
| 16:18.47 | cogwheel | they're bitmaps of numbers |
| 16:18.48 | Fisker | no cogwheel |
| 16:18.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (~Srosh@d039091.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 16:19.11 | cogwheel | well, bytemaps, i suppose |
| 16:19.50 | Fisker | lets celebrate that kd is about to be thanked for his help with testing the cataclysm beta cogwheel |
| 16:19.52 | Fisker | kd3 |
| 16:21.59 | Kraps | Lunessa: on medium, if you can survive 4 or 5 decent waves you can beat the ai |
| 16:22.46 | Lunessa | Kraps: In beta all I did was play humans... and they all destroyed me. Note that I never played the original SC. |
| 16:24.20 | Kraps | i i've played some rtses, singleplayer |
| 16:24.41 | Kraps | this is a good beginner post http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/248106927?page=1 |
| 16:27.12 | Shirik_ | I just learned something really cool cogwheel |
| 16:27.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Mike-N-Go (~Mike-N-Go@64.193.93.197) |
| 16:27.16 | Shirik_ | did you know you could do this? http://codepad.org/jX6FhauP |
| 16:27.27 | Shirik_ | wait |
| 16:27.28 | Shirik_ | I fail |
| 16:27.46 | Shirik_ | no you can't :( http://codepad.org/oE0leLnZ |
| 16:28.46 | zenzelezz | you need to stop trying to break the compilers |
| 16:29.13 | Shirik_ | well this is the real problem I have: http://codepad.org/lPTfVR4t |
| 16:29.17 | Shirik_ | any suggestions on how to resolve it? |
| 16:30.24 | Shirik_ | even this doesn't work http://codepad.org/dsiV0c12 |
| 16:32.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Eluna (~Eluna@85.196.121.142) |
| 16:32.32 | mikma | woot |
| 16:32.38 | mikma | guild ui seems to be working well now |
| 16:33.16 | mikma | except, motd keeps on spamming xD |
| 16:33.18 | Ackis | what does 7.1 Dolby Surround Sound simulated mean? (aka simulated part) |
| 16:33.38 | Zyn | and guild experience being fubar |
| 16:34.19 | Ackis | http://www.logitech.com/en-ca/gaming/headsets/devices/7248 |
| 16:34.22 | nevcairiel | just to make sure i'm downloading the right thing now, the initial download for the new thing is about 600mb, and only avail in enUS? Can't find a enGB version =( |
| 16:34.30 | mikma | nevcairiel: that's correct. |
| 16:34.34 | mikma | nevcairiel: same version goes for all |
| 16:34.55 | mikma | WoW-3.3.0.10958-4.0.0.12635-x86-Win-enUS |
| 16:35.36 | Lunessa | cogwheel: That "Everybody Knows" thing you linked yesterday? Written by an old friend. |
| 16:35.38 | Yssaril | Ackis: its not true 7.1 since with headsets you cant have a front center speaker so it has to be simulated |
| 16:36.06 | cogwheel | Lunessa: cool :) |
| 16:36.31 | Ackis | Yssaril: but does it mean each side has a mini-subwoofer? or is it just like 1 speaker? |
| 16:37.38 | zenzelezz | I don't really know about the subwoofer part, but I've had two different 5.1 headsets, and I liked both of them |
| 16:37.46 | mikma | hoof da woof |
| 16:37.53 | nevcairiel | probably has a speaker that can do some better low-freqs, but not a real sub |
| 16:38.06 | Yssaril | Ackis: no idea but i'm guessing the headphones are more like a 4.0 setup than 7.1 |
| 16:38.16 | zenzelezz | "User suffered concussion after his headset's subwoofer malfunctioned" |
| 16:38.54 | Ackis | I currently have these: http://us.store.creative.com/HS1200-Digital-Wireless-Headset/M/B001BAWX80.htm |
| 16:39.11 | Ackis | my fiancee had a pair as well but let the cat chew through the receiver cord /grumble |
| 16:39.34 | *** join/#wowuidev augustl (~augustl@6.79-160-9.customer.lyse.net) |
| 16:40.10 | mikma | i <3 my Creative Fatal1ty |
| 16:40.47 | cogwheel | http://www.break.com/index/how_to_shower_men_vs_women.html probably SFW... |
| 16:40.47 | Ackis | sound cards are useless with USB headsets my friend |
| 16:41.14 | Shirik_ | cogwheel ignored my question :< |
| 16:42.04 | Fisker | also mine Shirik :< |
| 16:42.11 | cogwheel | Shirik_: add an extra int arg to the vararg version imo |
| 16:43.43 | Shirik_ | not an option :( |
| 16:45.16 | cogwheel | well, too bad then imo.... if you want to get rid of an ambiguity you need to get rid of the ambiguity |
| 16:45.59 | mikma | cogwheel: fisker, but still good |
| 16:46.02 | mikma | cogwheel: i mean, old ;) |
| 16:46.04 | NightHawkTheSane | http://www.greatwhitesnark.com/2010/08/04/mystery-science-theater-3000-tattoo/ |
| 16:46.05 | NightHawkTheSane | that is all. |
| 16:47.27 | Mr_Rabies | that is the best thing |
| 16:50.02 | Shirik_ | cogwheel: :P |
| 16:50.10 | Shirik_ | imo it shouldn't be ambiguous |
| 16:50.15 | cogwheel | it is |
| 16:50.15 | Shirik_ | varargs should be a last choice |
| 16:50.22 | cogwheel | because ... can be called with 0 args |
| 16:50.26 | Shirik_ | yes |
| 16:50.30 | Shirik_ | but I think it should be a last choice |
| 16:50.38 | cogwheel | but that's arbitrary |
| 16:51.00 | Shirik_ | tbh varargs shouldn't exist at all :) |
| 16:51.27 | zenzelezz | heathen |
| 16:51.47 | durcyn | "11.0GB remaining (328.2 KB/s) Estimated time left: About 3 minutes" |
| 16:51.49 | durcyn | uhhuh. |
| 16:52.13 | cogwheel | durcyn: time until you can log in, i suppose... |
| 16:52.31 | cogwheel | (assuming you're talking about the new beta installer) |
| 16:52.33 | durcyn | speaking of, is there an actual readout of that in-game, or is it just the same old progress bar for hours on end |
| 16:52.39 | durcyn | yes, beta |
| 16:52.46 | nicoli_s | yah supposedly like 3 or 4% is enough to login now\ |
| 16:53.04 | Fisker | depends on your connection speed |
| 16:53.09 | durcyn | it's almost to 40%, when i logged in it sat at a load screen until it eventually hung |
| 16:57.03 | Pneumatus | im still installing the first 600mb :< |
| 16:57.35 | cogwheel | ^ |
| 16:58.10 | durcyn | i had the foresight to start it at 4 am and leave it going for 7 hours, seems that wasn't long enough |
| 16:58.31 | Pneumatus | i set the initial download off before work, and just got back home to kick it off |
| 16:58.39 | Pneumatus | i'll have to let the actual proper download happen tonight |
| 16:59.05 | NightHawkTheSane | i should have done that before i left for work this morning |
| 16:59.14 | Pneumatus | i wonder if having the US client installed will make it have to download less |
| 17:00.00 | Pneumatus | this first 600mb seems to be taking a hell of a long time to install, anyway |
| 17:01.59 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 17:02.28 | foxlit | A kingdom for siege tanks on In Utter Darkness :( |
| 17:05.14 | Shirik_ | ! |
| 17:05.17 | Shirik_ | I found a solution cogwheel |
| 17:05.26 | Ackis | do you have to uninstall and reinstall the new client or does the existing client walk you through it? |
| 17:05.45 | Pneumatus | i uninstalled manually |
| 17:05.47 | Pneumatus | so idk |
| 17:05.59 | Shirik_ | well, I sorta found a solution |
| 17:06.09 | Shirik_ | it actually hides the vararg but that's good enough for now |
| 17:06.34 | nevcairiel | Ackis: cant upgrade the beta client, have to redownload it |
| 17:06.43 | DWSR | foxlit: I'm on that mission too. |
| 17:06.45 | Ackis | nevcairiel: ok thanks |
| 17:06.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~callahan@74-141-246-74.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 17:06.55 | DWSR | I have a choice between Invade Char, Steal the Odin, or In Utter Darkness. |
| 17:06.58 | DWSR | sigh |
| 17:07.05 | *** join/#wowuidev vjeux (52e9ed5b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.233.237.91) |
| 17:08.00 | DWSR | I really loved the mission where you had to kill all the Rip Field generators. |
| 17:08.08 | DWSR | Freeing Dark Templars = winwinwinwin |
| 17:09.01 | foxlit | 200/200 battlecruisers, a-move, win. |
| 17:09.09 | Shirik_ | unlikely |
| 17:09.13 | DWSR | Why are Dark Templar so fucking rape, anyway? I don't remember them being so goddamned powerful in SC1. |
| 17:09.21 | Shirik_ | they aren't |
| 17:09.24 | DWSR | foxlit: Yeah, and I had the regenerative Biosteel research option. |
| 17:09.32 | nicoli_s | well they are if you cant detect them |
| 17:09.34 | Shirik_ | they're good against people that suck at making detectors |
| 17:10.09 | DWSR | Which is 50% of the SC2 community. |
| 17:10.17 | DWSR | Derr......detectors? |
| 17:10.20 | Kraps | Shirik_: i lost once to that |
| 17:10.25 | foxlit | 33% has scans :) |
| 17:10.35 | Shirik_ | no |
| 17:10.38 | Shirik_ | probably about 15% has scans |
| 17:10.45 | DWSR | ^ |
| 17:10.52 | DWSR | Since you can also upgrade to planetary fortress instead. |
| 17:11.04 | Shirik_ | and for some reason some people actually think that's a good idea |
| 17:11.21 | Kraps | yesterday i built a detector while they were attacking and saved myself ftw |
| 17:11.37 | DWSR | Terrans probably have the worst time with having detectors. |
| 17:11.44 | foxlit | You never PF your main CC, anyway |
| 17:11.46 | DWSR | Missile Turrets, Ravens, what else? |
| 17:11.50 | foxlit | If you need those guns, game is already over :) |
| 17:12.17 | Kraps | foxlit: i tend to pf my expansion |
| 17:12.26 | *** join/#wowuidev cloudwolf (~chatzilla@c-71-227-249-44.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 17:12.28 | DWSR | Kraps: Yeah, I can see that.. |
| 17:12.45 | Kraps | (lookit little krapsy, talking like a sc pro) |
| 17:12.51 | *** join/#wowuidev augustl (~augustl@6.79-160-9.customer.lyse.net) |
| 17:13.01 | theorbtwo | It's amazing how this channel has turned into #sc2. |
| 17:13.02 | DWSR | lolwut? |
| 17:13.07 | DWSR | theorbtwo: Not really. |
| 17:13.08 | foxlit | Kraps: leaving you with a scan on your home cc :) |
| 17:13.08 | theorbtwo | When's the last time somebody has even mentioned WoW? |
| 17:13.18 | DWSR | earlier today. |
| 17:13.46 | Kraps | foxlit: MULE > scan :p |
| 17:13.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Irish` (~DigitaLun@cpe-066-056-188-038.sc.res.rr.com) |
| 17:14.01 | foxlit | Yes but no. |
| 17:15.34 | sylvanaar_atwork | do people still play wow |
| 17:16.14 | DWSR | Yes. |
| 17:16.16 | DWSR | The Cataclysm beta. |
| 17:16.23 | sylvanaar_atwork | right |
| 17:16.28 | augustl | what he said |
| 17:16.39 | sylvanaar_atwork | im still waiting for them to enable addons to play beta |
| 17:16.41 | Kraps | DWSR: missile turrets imo, raven's a waste of a banshee/vulture (i think this only applies to low level play) |
| 17:16.59 | augustl | hmm. The magic dynamic beta client first downloads a 650mb exe. Is that supposed to happen? |
| 17:17.00 | DWSR | Kraps: Yeah, but if not Ravens, you have no mobile detectors. |
| 17:17.07 | DWSR | augustl: Yes. |
| 17:17.45 | augustl | Kraps, DWSR: I'm a fan of 1-1-1 for ravens when battling protoss |
| 17:18.03 | DWSR | Protoss have Observers, PCs. |
| 17:18.12 | DWSR | Observers being infinitely more useful than Ravens |
| 17:18.12 | Pneumatus | is that 650mb supposed to take an absolute age to install though? |
| 17:18.17 | Kraps | k idk what 1-1-1 means :( |
| 17:18.18 | DWSR | Yes. |
| 17:18.24 | Pneumatus | ive been sat here for like 40 mins so far, and am at 60& |
| 17:18.36 | augustl | Kraps: barracks, factory, starport, as a build order |
| 17:18.41 | DWSR | Well, supposed to is relative, but you're not the only one. |
| 17:18.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Bartlomehus (~Michel@wetering.xs4all.nl) |
| 17:19.09 | Kraps | augustl: ah thats the "tier" thing? |
| 17:19.11 | foxlit | "DWSR: I have a choice between Invade Char, Steal the Odin, or In Utter Darkness." << While Tychus is slacking, quietly nuke the choke points of the next base. |
| 17:19.26 | DWSR | foxlit: Ah, good strat. |
| 17:19.33 | augustl | Kraps: I don't think in tiers.. I'm not a high level player though ;) |
| 17:19.35 | foxlit | Makes the escort a little less frustrating :) |
| 17:19.37 | DWSR | I keep forgetting about nukes. |
| 17:19.46 | DWSR | Probably because they suck so much now. |
| 17:19.58 | DWSR | Someone dropped a nuke on one of my expansions online. |
| 17:20.01 | DWSR | I was like....lolwut? |
| 17:20.02 | Kraps | but thats what it means yeah? |
| 17:20.04 | DWSR | And then stomped him. |
| 17:20.05 | Pneumatus | ahh, i see, that 650mb installer is basically kicking my live wow across to a new folder and starting on an inital patch |
| 17:20.18 | nevcairiel | indeed |
| 17:20.20 | augustl | Kraps: not sure tbh. I just build them, in that order :) |
| 17:20.22 | nevcairiel | after that you get streaming |
| 17:20.30 | nevcairiel | i jsut finished the install of that initila patch |
| 17:20.31 | augustl | Kraps: barracks enables factory and factory enables starport |
| 17:21.07 | Pneumatus | i guess, even though its a US client from an EU install, it actually doesnt matter because its just copying resources, not the localized stuff |
| 17:21.09 | Kraps | how do you know its called 1-1-1 then? :p |
| 17:21.18 | DWSR | foxlit: The last mission I did where I had to get the final Xel'Naga artifact. |
| 17:21.30 | foxlit | Totally cheesed that. |
| 17:21.32 | augustl | Kraps: huh? Cause that's what it's called |
| 17:21.32 | DWSR | foxlit: I just walked around with my Dark Templar, fucking raped all the generators, then massed Goliaths. |
| 17:21.39 | foxlit | Ah, final. |
| 17:21.40 | DWSR | NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM |
| 17:21.54 | DWSR | Goliaths with multi-targetting are so win. |
| 17:21.58 | foxlit | I thought the chokes had detectors? |
| 17:22.14 | foxlit | So you couldn't just waltz the templar in there and expect them to live. |
| 17:22.50 | DWSR | I think I had to Yamato 1 of the generators. |
| 17:23.04 | DWSR | Everything else I just skirted around the edge of the detection radius. |
| 17:23.16 | DWSR | The Templar have shields, so they took a bit of damage, but whatever. |
| 17:23.25 | DWSR | Waltzed in like 80 Goliaths, won. |
| 17:23.39 | Kraps | augustl: where did you see that? |
| 17:23.53 | augustl | Kraps: in tutorials |
| 17:24.00 | Kraps | link plz |
| 17:25.40 | augustl | Kraps: http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=-XUUpXPkfGY |
| 17:25.49 | augustl | hmm nfi why it's il.youtube.com |
| 17:26.04 | augustl | Kraps: another obligatory watch http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/3732340/ |
| 17:26.08 | Shirik_ | PProvost: you around? |
| 17:26.23 | Kraps | augustl: saw that yesterday :) |
| 17:27.41 | mikma | omg pingout |
| 17:27.50 | Kraps | it was linked in the comments here http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/248106927?page=1 |
| 17:29.03 | augustl | so it's the color of the progress bar that lets us know when we can launch? (The new installer) |
| 17:30.43 | mikma | yellow = go! |
| 17:31.07 | nevcairiel | yellow means you can play, but it'll constantly continue to load stuff as its required, and you will notice |
| 17:31.13 | nevcairiel | green means its almost done |
| 17:31.38 | theorbtwo | loved the streaming client when he was a trial player, and was very disapointed to find that you can't do it as a non-trial player. |
| 17:31.47 | augustl | will it stream it when it's yellow, or will it rather fetch permanently like the normal installer but prioritize what you need at that point in the game? |
| 17:32.23 | Maldivia | think once you hit play, it only downloads on demand |
| 17:32.29 | theorbtwo | (OTOH, the trial client has a tendency to kill itself when it can't stream fast enough.) |
| 17:32.34 | nevcairiel | which will still be enough to download |
| 17:32.52 | theorbtwo | That's a good thing. It means that you don't pay in disk space for content that you aren't playing. |
| 17:32.55 | nevcairiel | it can try to guess where you are going and then download that already |
| 17:33.00 | nevcairiel | like the bordering zones |
| 17:33.11 | Pneumatus | oh what, the beta is downloading all the language packs :o |
| 17:33.19 | nevcairiel | diskspace is cheap |
| 17:33.27 | nevcairiel | it will eventually download everything |
| 17:34.12 | Pneumatus | i really hate i can't view connections/traffic use |
| 17:34.20 | Pneumatus | and i know it's raping my upstream |
| 17:34.20 | *** join/#wowuidev cbreak_work (~cbreak@drz-wizzer.drz.ethz.ch) |
| 17:34.53 | augustl | so playing on yellow means streaming and downloading at the same time? |
| 17:35.01 | Pneumatus | yer |
| 17:35.11 | Pneumatus | some of it in real-time |
| 17:35.14 | Pneumatus | on loading screens etc |
| 17:35.37 | Maldivia | guildwars style? |
| 17:35.50 | nevcairiel | its not "streaming" like its on videos. Its basically just prioritized downloading of the content thats needed like .. now |
| 17:36.22 | augustl | nevcairiel: so when you go to orgrimmar, the downloader will download orgrimmar and then you'll be able to play in orgrimmar? |
| 17:36.31 | nevcairiel | sure |
| 17:36.31 | augustl | and it won't download orgrimmar again when it was "supposed" to? |
| 17:36.41 | nevcairiel | what it downloaded, it downloaded |
| 17:36.41 | Pneumatus | yeh, like, its going to download everything but if it needs something it doesnt have NOW it gets that first |
| 17:37.02 | augustl | I see. So it is indeed no streaming, it just prioritizes the normal download process |
| 17:37.16 | Pneumatus | i wonder what kind of stuff is sat in the green section |
| 17:37.30 | Maldivia | exe files, dbc files etc |
| 17:37.34 | augustl | according to the FAQ, higher resolution graphics |
| 17:37.42 | nevcairiel | like exe isnt important to play =P |
| 17:37.44 | augustl | and alternate sounds, whatever that is :) |
| 17:37.49 | Maldivia | ohh green - exe,dbc is in red :P |
| 17:38.04 | Pneumatus | exe is already present |
| 17:38.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (~dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 17:38.20 | Pneumatus | red seems to largely be locale |
| 17:38.33 | augustl | the UI is kind of confusing, in a way. There is no grayed out "play" button, all I see ow is the progress bar and a stop button |
| 17:38.34 | nevcairiel | which contain the dbcs |
| 17:38.37 | Maldivia | the dbc files are in locale |
| 17:39.09 | nevcairiel | augustl: but the text tells you that red means "no play" |
| 17:39.22 | augustl | nevcairiel: odd, I don't have any such text |
| 17:39.24 | Maldivia | augustl: ehh, then you're stil in the installer if your see a stop button ? |
| 17:39.33 | augustl | all I have is a background, the progress bar, and a stop button |
| 17:39.40 | nevcairiel | oh yeah, then you're in the installer |
| 17:39.42 | Maldivia | that's the installer then |
| 17:39.44 | Pneumatus | im totally gonna try and play now its turned yellow |
| 17:39.46 | nevcairiel | the streaming client is after that |
| 17:39.49 | augustl | oh |
| 17:40.10 | nevcairiel | the installer just copys your wotlk and applys an initial patch |
| 17:40.16 | nevcairiel | and its damn slow |
| 17:40.25 | augustl | I have to do that though, right? |
| 17:40.30 | nevcairiel | its restructuring the mpqs completly, it seems |
| 17:40.36 | augustl | I can't continue using the old client? |
| 17:40.41 | nevcairiel | no, you cant |
| 17:40.55 | Maldivia | took me almost 1.5 hours to install on this laptop |
| 17:40.59 | Pneumatus | loading bars on login screen, pro :) |
| 17:41.04 | sylvanaar_atwork | how sexy http://goo.gl/XFGQ |
| 17:41.29 | nevcairiel | Maldivia: i should've installed on another drive then where my wotlk is |
| 17:41.41 | Cide | I hate these tiny url shit sites |
| 17:41.42 | Maldivia | nevcairiel: laptop, only one drive :P |
| 17:41.46 | NightHawkTheSane | nevcairiel: why? |
| 17:41.51 | Maldivia | nevcairiel: on my other computer it took 20mins :P |
| 17:41.53 | nevcairiel | better io performance |
| 17:42.03 | sylvanaar_atwork | you want a fat ass link |
| 17:42.07 | NightHawkTheSane | hm, true. |
| 17:42.08 | Cide | you never know what the real link is so I can never decide whether or not it's worth my time just by looking at the link |
| 17:42.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Warloco (~theunknow@abarelds.xs4all.nl) |
| 17:42.19 | sylvanaar_atwork | http://www.evga.com/products/moreInfo.asp?pn=270-WS-W555-A1&family=Motherboard%20Family&series=Intel%205520%20Series%20Family&sw=5 |
| 17:42.43 | augustl | is there a patch note diff for the most recent patch somewhere? |
| 17:42.44 | Pneumatus | oh great, my worgen still divides by zero |
| 17:42.45 | Cide | I already clicked |
| 17:42.50 | Cide | and deemed it worthless |
| 17:42.56 | augustl | Pneumatus: haha, that's cute :) |
| 17:42.57 | sylvanaar_atwork | 12 cores |
| 17:42.59 | nevcairiel | where the hell did you get stuck :p |
| 17:43.21 | Pneumatus | sholazar |
| 17:43.29 | sylvanaar_atwork | 24 with hyperthreading |
| 17:43.49 | zenzelezz | http://s-ak.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/web02/2010/8/4/15/enhanced-buzz-10200-1280951873-43.jpg |
| 17:43.55 | nevcairiel | i do wonder .. when you have 2 cpus, do you also have 2 times the PCIe lanes, or is that still limited to the 36 ? |
| 17:44.12 | nevcairiel | all those PCIe slots would be kinda wasted with only 36 lines |
| 17:44.26 | nevcairiel | lanes* |
| 17:44.33 | sylvanaar_atwork | fair question |
| 17:44.57 | nevcairiel | although most gpus can run at nearly full performance with 8 lanes |
| 17:45.17 | Pneumatus | i wonder if the new patching system means that they won't have to distribute whole 'proper' patches when they need to hotfix stuff client side |
| 17:45.21 | nevcairiel | and you can only use every other slot anyway |
| 17:45.27 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (~smcn@c-174-52-104-121.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 17:45.45 | nevcairiel | I'm sure they'll have build in some nice things like that |
| 17:46.42 | sylvanaar_atwork | it supports 4 way sli |
| 17:47.55 | nevcairiel | the green data is really big though, half the size of the total thing |
| 17:47.59 | nevcairiel | must be something good |
| 17:48.09 | Pneumatus | free epix at 100% |
| 17:48.16 | Fisker | naw Pneumatus |
| 17:48.19 | Fisker | i checked |
| 17:48.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 17:48.39 | Pneumatus | i wonder if stuff like classic/bc raids are in there as well |
| 17:48.49 | augustl | I think blizzard has a conspiracy with SSH manufacturers.. Oh the disk strain! |
| 17:48.57 | Maldivia | heh |
| 17:49.00 | Pneumatus | well, all the non-current-expansion raids |
| 17:49.06 | augustl | SSD even |
| 17:49.25 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-76-116-64-179.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 17:50.32 | augustl | how that we have SSDs and HDDs, the term "mass storage" will relive it's glory days |
| 17:50.41 | augustl | now*, meh |
| 17:52.36 | augustl | "Another copy of the Blizzard Downloader is already downloading that file to that location" |
| 17:54.25 | augustl | gotta run the downloader as an administrator on win 7 |
| 17:54.41 | nevcairiel | mine automatically did bring up a uac box |
| 17:56.54 | Dagmar | augustl: If you want it installed system-wide, definetely |
| 17:59.16 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (~smcn@c-174-52-104-121.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 18:02.26 | augustl | I normally don't have to micro manage that though |
| 18:02.33 | augustl | popping up an UAC box would make sense |
| 18:05.26 | augustl | haha that's so awesome. You can see the world maps gets downloaded as you show them, just like images on web pages |
| 18:08.09 | industrial | my god |
| 18:08.11 | industrial | rolling a new char |
| 18:08.17 | industrial | how do I get rid of this tutorial window |
| 18:08.22 | industrial | GO AWAY |
| 18:08.28 | Shirik_ | gah |
| 18:08.31 | nevcairiel | disable it in interface options |
| 18:08.42 | nevcairiel | under help, i would think |
| 18:08.44 | Shirik_ | cogwheel: Ever since I learned about C++0x's variadic templates I keep finding good uses for them |
| 18:08.45 | industrial | god, put a check mark inside the box you pester me with |
| 18:10.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Kazie (Kazie@188.114.185.143) |
| 18:12.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Cairenn (~Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 18:12.23 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 18:13.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (~chatzilla@99-92-174-69.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:14.39 | Lunessa | On Windows 7 the beta installer defaults to the Program Files or Program Files (x86) folders. If you let it install there UAC will prompt you |
| 18:16.56 | Kraps | http://kotaku.com/5605450/really-bad-games-satan-vs-jesus |
| 18:17.20 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 18:17.20 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 18:18.07 | *** join/#wowuidev jacobeiting (~jacobeiti@phy-dhcp-34-254.mps.ohio-state.edu) |
| 18:20.45 | mikma | http://www.modernman.com/entertainment/10-incredibly-misleading-movie-trailers-03082010/ |
| 18:21.30 | cogwheel | http://www.wtop.com/?sid=2018950&nid=25 |
| 18:23.38 | Lunessa | cogwheel: What people won't do to each other... |
| 18:23.52 | Lunessa | suspects he was making a porn site |
| 18:24.19 | zenzelezz | can you not get achievements before level 10? |
| 18:24.30 | Maldivia | you can |
| 18:24.34 | Maldivia | pets for instance |
| 18:24.52 | zenzelezz | but the interface won't show? |
| 18:25.21 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~alestane@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 18:25.21 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 18:27.21 | cloudwolf | lol what in the fuck cogwheel thats just creepy |
| 18:27.22 | nevcairiel | sure it will |
| 18:27.36 | zenzelezz | nevcairiel: I see now that it does, but not until you have an achievement... |
| 18:27.38 | nevcairiel | first mailbox i see i pick up one of the account bound pets that all my chars get |
| 18:27.47 | nevcairiel | and tada, achievement |
| 18:27.59 | cogwheel | i'm so happy they added mailboxes to the starting areas |
| 18:28.10 | cogwheel | (in cata, anyway) |
| 18:28.33 | cloudwolf | lol with out htem heirlooms were useless for like 6 levels |
| 18:28.52 | *** join/#wowuidev daev (~bleh@pool-72-86-110-88.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 18:28.58 | Kraps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8rsDLPFIdE&feature=channel |
| 18:30.11 | Lunessa | Especially since new starting areas are heavily pahsed. |
| 18:30.37 | alestane | And even some of the older ones, now. |
| 18:30.46 | alestane | Have you seen what they did with Westfall? |
| 18:30.54 | Fisker | btw kd3 |
| 18:31.01 | Fisker | nah |
| 18:31.02 | Fisker | bah |
| 18:31.04 | Fisker | btw cogwheel |
| 18:31.06 | cloudwolf | lol lunessa whats not gonnna be phased?... its gonnab e age of conan night time mode! |
| 18:31.10 | Fisker | are you ready to make fun of kd3 now? |
| 18:31.27 | Lunessa | cloudwolf: No, I played AoC, and it SUCKED |
| 18:31.38 | cloudwolf | i tried it |
| 18:31.44 | cloudwolf | on like the free 10 days or waht ever |
| 18:31.54 | cloudwolf | it took me 2 days to download because the installer was a hunk of shit |
| 18:32.15 | cloudwolf | and then the game play was so disatisfying for an mmo you gota do most of it single player... that i went fuck this after playing for 4 hours |
| 18:35.55 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (smcn@c-174-52-104-121.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 18:36.36 | Lunessa | cloudwolf: I bought the game because friends were excited. I cancelled 5 days in. |
| 18:37.30 | cloudwolf | money down the drain D: |
| 18:37.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 18:38.02 | cloudwolf | Speaking of money... (random connection in my head don't ask me how) Team17 is gonna have a new worms game come out that goes back to 2d :D |
| 18:38.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Synycyl (61011eaa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.97.1.30.170) |
| 18:39.10 | *** join/#wowuidev boshi23_ (~boshi23@c-68-81-3-76.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 18:39.22 | cloudwolf | seriously gota pre order that from steam and save myself like 8 bucks |
| 18:40.08 | Synycyl | Is there currently anyone on who is willing to answer a few questions from a noobie addon dev? |
| 18:40.17 | cogwheel | ~asktoask |
| 18:40.18 | purl | This is IRC. Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question and if someone's around, they'll be glad to help. |
| 18:40.20 | cloudwolf | don't ask to ask just ask |
| 18:40.33 | Kraps | why is ysera all purple and shizz http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2010/august/ysera.jpg |
| 18:40.37 | Synycyl | sorry |
| 18:40.59 | cloudwolf | ysera was a dragon right? |
| 18:41.14 | Yssaril | cloudwolf: she is a dragon :P |
| 18:41.28 | Synycyl | OK so i'm working on an addon that will need to scan the skills list to pull out proffessions. I was wondering if there is an ID like the ItemID for skills so that I can allow it to have localization |
| 18:41.41 | nevcairiel | ysera is kinda hot, though |
| 18:41.43 | cloudwolf | :P sorry is.... in the lore they can take a humanoid form and she may find night elves more asthetically pleasing |
| 18:42.07 | cloudwolf | synycyl your gonna have hell when cata hits ifyou do that |
| 18:42.11 | cloudwolf | they removed the skills tab |
| 18:42.11 | nevcairiel | alextrasza was a blood elf, i think |
| 18:42.46 | p3lim | what is the html-equivalent of Lua's SetJustifyH() ? |
| 18:43.14 | cogwheel | html? |
| 18:43.22 | p3lim | yap |
| 18:43.23 | nevcairiel | align="left"? |
| 18:43.32 | p3lim | thanks nev |
| 18:43.33 | nevcairiel | or text-align: left; in css, i think |
| 18:43.54 | Synycyl | Really? Is there any previews for how to retrieve skills in Cata? I would like to try and write this now to get a feel for it and then I would probably write it over again when Cata comes out. Its a very small addon that places "XP" bars for the skills so you don't have to open the window or skillup just to know your skill level |
| 18:44.02 | NightHawkTheSane | I think almost all the aspects take some elf-like humanoid form, yeah? |
| 18:44.06 | p3lim | yeah i need to use html, since I have to frames that are on the same css class, but I want them aligned differently :) |
| 18:44.15 | nevcairiel | NightHawkTheSane: dunno, havent seen any more i dont think |
| 18:44.26 | nevcairiel | chromi is a gnome, though |
| 18:44.27 | cloudwolf | aparanetly you can find if some one has a profession through a spell id but im nto sure if it returns the profs level |
| 18:44.56 | NightHawkTheSane | nevcairiel: true. |
| 18:45.09 | nevcairiel | i mean, what other aspects are there |
| 18:45.14 | nevcairiel | malygos kinda went insane |
| 18:45.33 | nevcairiel | and deathwing .. we might see him in a humanoid form somewhere |
| 18:45.35 | NightHawkTheSane | nozdormu, malygos, alexstrasza, ysera, neltharion |
| 18:45.35 | nevcairiel | who knows yet |
| 18:45.51 | NightHawkTheSane | so yeah... i guess we're not really going to find out about many of the others, eh. |
| 18:46.16 | nevcairiel | nozdormu could show up somewhere again, its all in the unclear |
| 18:46.17 | Fisker | i'm on a highway to laugh at kd3 together with cogwheel |
| 18:46.26 | Synycyl | That might help with the localization part. I can pull the spell id and compare the name to the skill itself using GetSkillLineInfo(skillName) |
| 18:46.27 | nevcairiel | deathwing could show up in humanoid form in the raid thatk ills him |
| 18:46.37 | NightHawkTheSane | I was thinking mostly of the dragons at Wyrmrest, but a large number of those were red, and I think at least the black dragonflight generally had human form... |
| 18:46.40 | nevcairiel | or rights him, at least :p |
| 18:46.41 | cogwheel | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=26398720242&sid=1 |
| 18:46.52 | nevcairiel | nefarian was a human, at least |
| 18:47.05 | NightHawkTheSane | *nod* |
| 18:47.09 | Fisker | cogwheel |
| 18:47.12 | Fisker | join my highway |
| 18:47.13 | nevcairiel | so was onyxia |
| 18:47.14 | nevcairiel | fwiw |
| 18:47.22 | NightHawkTheSane | maybe the red & green just like elves. |
| 18:47.26 | *** join/#wowuidev nichdu (~nichdu@nerdcraft.eu) |
| 18:47.33 | Fisker | i hate anal filters |
| 18:47.42 | Fisker | i want anal filters that automatically reports for spam |
| 18:48.59 | nevcairiel | NightHawkTheSane: could be, krasus looks kinda blood elfish as well |
| 18:49.05 | Kraps | evangalism ans archangel now affect shadow form |
| 18:49.27 | Kraps | still waiting for holyform :( |
| 18:49.38 | nevcairiel | you wont get it |
| 18:49.54 | Kraps | i know |
| 18:50.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Nephtys (~maarten16@d51A45E0B.access.telenet.be) |
| 18:50.10 | amro | dragons should have catform |
| 18:50.13 | Kraps | priests deserve it though |
| 18:50.20 | cloudwolf | my gnome can speak draconic :D |
| 18:50.27 | bloodpriest | good evening |
| 18:50.36 | bloodpriest | does anyone have the time to help me with a macro? |
| 18:50.57 | Synycyl | cloudwolf do you have any insight as to where the skills will be or how they will be reported? The have to still be trackable for the interface to print to chat, and what not! I would assumming there would at least be a global variable I could call on. The artwork in the frame doesn't have to be from the blizz frames |
| 18:50.58 | amro | unlikely, we mostly talk about starcraft 2 apparently. |
| 18:51.10 | Kraps | do you play a priest bloodpriest? |
| 18:51.10 | cogwheel | bloodpriest: |
| 18:51.12 | amro | but go ahead and ask |
| 18:51.13 | cogwheel | ~asktoask |
| 18:51.14 | purl | This is IRC. Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question and if someone's around, they'll be glad to help. |
| 18:51.17 | bloodpriest | no, i play an undead warlock |
| 18:51.22 | amro | fu cogwheel |
| 18:51.23 | Kraps | dangit |
| 18:51.37 | bloodpriest | but i need a macro to make my imp attack the orb in the blood prince council fight (ICC 10) |
| 18:52.10 | Fisker | cogwheel |
| 18:52.14 | Fisker | laugh at kd3 |
| 18:52.15 | Fisker | now |
| 18:52.23 | cogwheel | laughs at Fisker |
| 18:52.52 | Fisker | at kd3 |
| 18:52.56 | cogwheel | /target <name of whatever> |
| 18:52.58 | cogwheel | /petattack |
| 18:53.19 | Fisker | kd3 |
| 18:53.22 | bloodpriest | thanks |
| 18:53.36 | bloodpriest | is there also a line i can add to switch to my previous target? |
| 18:53.43 | cogwheel | /targetlasttarget |
| 18:53.47 | cogwheel | http://www.wowwiki.com/Making_a_macro |
| 18:54.10 | bloodpriest | thanks cogwheel |
| 18:54.44 | amro | cogwheel invented macros. true story |
| 18:56.22 | Fisker | cogwheel + Fisker + laughs + kd3 |
| 18:56.48 | *** join/#wowuidev digmouse (~chatzilla@221.219.110.14) |
| 18:56.58 | Kraps | = ? |
| 18:57.08 | Kraps | troll! |
| 18:57.10 | Fisker | fun i guess |
| 18:57.17 | Fisker | disagreed Kraps |
| 18:57.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (~Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 18:57.33 | Fisker | if anyone is trolling it is kd3 |
| 18:57.42 | Kraps | what |
| 18:57.54 | Fisker | he's 5 seconds away from being thanked for helping Blizzard test the cataclysm beta |
| 18:58.50 | Yssaril | Kraps: Fisker is refering to the blue post http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=26398720232&sid=2000&pageNo=2#38 i think |
| 18:59.01 | Kraps | i was it |
| 18:59.06 | Kraps | er saw* |
| 18:59.29 | cloudwolf | whats the website that contains the blizzard addon development kit info for viewing with out needing to install? |
| 19:00.04 | Yssaril | wowcompares.com ? |
| 19:00.07 | sylvanaar_atwork | wowprogramming.com has it |
| 19:00.24 | Lunessa | wowcompares.com only hosts diffs. |
| 19:00.49 | sylvanaar_atwork | http://wowprogramming.com/utils/xmlbrowser |
| 19:01.35 | sylvanaar_atwork | you have to click on view latest version |
| 19:01.44 | Yssaril | speaking of which anyone been able to get a diff from the latest beta yet? |
| 19:03.11 | cloudwolf | eww xml was hoping for the lua side of it but meh... |
| 19:03.20 | cloudwolf | nvm has lua in there too :D |
| 19:04.35 | *** part/#wowuidev Thaoky (Thaoky@75.61-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 19:15.37 | Synycyl | Goodbye all, thanks again cloudwolf |
| 19:15.51 | cloudwolf | Gl with the addon |
| 19:20.01 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 19:22.10 | Adys | As of today, we estimate that there are 129,864,880 different books in the world. That's a lot of knowledge captured in the written word! This calculation used an algorithm that combines books information from multiple sources including libraries, WorldCat, national union catalogs and commercial providers. And the actual number of books is always increasing. |
| 19:22.55 | zenzelezz | is that different books, or total? |
| 19:23.55 | Adys | different book |
| 19:23.56 | Adys | s |
| 19:24.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Irish` (~DigitaLun@cpe-066-056-188-038.sc.res.rr.com) |
| 19:24.20 | Adys | otherwise harry potter and the bible together would be higher than that :p |
| 19:25.03 | Ackis | Adys: I wonder how many "books" don't exist anymore |
| 19:25.07 | Ackis | sad thought :( |
| 19:25.14 | NightHawkTheSane | too many. |
| 19:26.05 | augustl | are there any new questing hubs or finished zones in the latest beta patch? |
| 19:31.28 | Kraps | gosh darn carriers |
| 19:31.45 | Kraps | no wonder everyone takes protoss |
| 19:31.52 | Fisker | the guild perk for extra guild "tax" is 20% of money looted right? |
| 19:31.56 | Fisker | the best one that is |
| 19:31.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen (~Sixen@173-25-23-10.client.mchsi.com) |
| 19:32.25 | Fisker | hey Sixen |
| 19:39.28 | Fisker | saws Sixen in 2 |
| 19:47.05 | Shirik | lmao |
| 19:47.26 | Shirik | (del/undel) 12:38, 5 August 2010 Shirik (talk | contribs | block) blocked Mohammed Lieber (talk | contribs) (account creation blocked) with an expiry time of indefinite â (Abusing multiple accounts: |
| 19:47.28 | Shirik | (del/undel) 12:42, 5 August 2010 (diff | hist) User talk:Mohammed Lieber â (âReplaced content with '{{retired}}') (top) [rollback](AJAX) [rollback] [vandalism] |
| 19:47.29 | ccox | wouldn't that be a threeen? |
| 19:47.42 | Shirik | calls BS |
| 19:50.02 | Ackis | he changed your ban to a retired? |
| 19:54.43 | Shirik | well |
| 19:54.52 | Shirik | we said he retired after I blocked him |
| 19:55.03 | Shirik | every time someone blocks him he just makes a new account |
| 19:55.09 | Shirik | I find this unlikely that he is now retired |
| 19:56.16 | zenzelezz | I'm confused |
| 19:56.23 | zenzelezz | can he still edit his own stuff after he's blocked? |
| 19:56.48 | Fisker | baw Shirik |
| 19:57.11 | Fisker | Sixen won't be my man Shirik |
| 19:57.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Droolio (~drool@87-194-188-170.bethere.co.uk) |
| 19:57.55 | Shirik | yes zenzelezz |
| 19:58.05 | Shirik | unless we explicitly restrict that as well (it is standard practice not to) |
| 19:58.44 | Shirik | hahahahaha |
| 19:58.47 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 19:58.51 | Shirik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:HavokPhysicsEngine |
| 19:58.58 | Shirik | Request reason: "shirik is a sock of moutray2010" |
| 19:59.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Gotai (~Gotai@ip54546435.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl) |
| 20:01.04 | *** join/#wowuidev phyber (phyber@irssi.co.uk) |
| 20:02.11 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 20:02.13 | Fisker | the sky is farting |
| 20:03.22 | cogwheel | yes, the sun does seem to be ejecting large clouds of gas once again |
| 20:03.35 | Ackis | Shirik: IP ban his ass!!!! :D |
| 20:04.18 | Shirik | I did :P |
| 20:04.22 | Fisker | man this sucks cogwheel |
| 20:04.29 | Fisker | people don't know how to absorb fireballs |
| 20:04.33 | Fisker | finally they killed them |
| 20:04.37 | Lunessa | cogwheel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JdWlSF195Y |
| 20:04.42 | zenzelezz | im in ur ip range gettin us banned |
| 20:06.21 | Shirik | I think I hear a vuvuzela outside |
| 20:07.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Odlaw (~ozzy@c-98-245-3-204.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 20:07.37 | Fisker | sweet Shirik |
| 20:07.50 | Shirik | sweet Fisker |
| 20:07.55 | Fisker | sweet Shirik |
| 20:07.58 | Shirik | dude |
| 20:08.02 | Fisker | dude |
| 20:08.05 | Shirik | no |
| 20:08.06 | cogwheel | washes his eyes out with HF |
| 20:08.06 | Shirik | you suck |
| 20:08.10 | Fisker | no you suck |
| 20:08.13 | Shirik | kbye |
| 20:08.15 | Fisker | HF? |
| 20:08.21 | Fisker | kthx |
| 20:08.23 | cogwheel | http://www.wowwiki.com/Making_a_macro |
| 20:08.26 | cogwheel | erm |
| 20:08.30 | cogwheel | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrofluoric_acid |
| 20:10.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 20:11.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Alram (~Marla@fabe.xs4all.nl) |
| 20:13.35 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (~smcn@c-174-52-104-121.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:15.22 | Shirik_ | ohi |
| 20:15.29 | batrick | no u |
| 20:15.34 | Shirik_ | :( |
| 20:15.41 | batrick | shirik, you never talk to me nemore |
| 20:15.45 | batrick | makes me qq at night |
| 20:15.55 | batrick | wanna play chess?! |
| 20:17.59 | batrick | that's what i thought |
| 20:19.46 | Fisker | yay |
| 20:19.53 | Fisker | our first conq token in a couple of weeks |
| 20:23.55 | ccox | TMBG++ |
| 20:24.00 | cogwheel | ^ |
| 20:24.21 | Fisker | ? |
| 20:24.23 | Kraps | can someone watch this and tell me why the guy quit? http://www.mediafire.com/file/g0rrpq6qw2a418d/Novice Blistering Sands.SC2Replay |
| 20:24.36 | Kraps | http://www.mediafire.com/?g0rrpq6qw2a418d |
| 20:24.39 | Kraps | ^ |
| 20:24.49 | amro | most likely he got tired of playing on Normal speed with walls all over |
| 20:25.18 | Kraps | huh |
| 20:25.37 | amro | it's on a novice map, I figure it's a practice league game right? |
| 20:26.08 | Kraps | yes |
| 20:26.19 | amro | practice league games are played on normal speed |
| 20:26.25 | amro | which takes foreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeever |
| 20:26.56 | Kraps | i actually thought they were on fast |
| 20:27.07 | amro | seemed much slower than that |
| 20:27.17 | amro | either way, I regretted playing that one practice league game |
| 20:27.19 | *** join/#wowuidev RJohn (~Tanner@h123.65.149.24.cable.rdwd.jetbroadband.com) |
| 20:27.36 | amro | even though I just got an early void ray and won with it >< |
| 20:28.01 | amro | Shirik |
| 20:28.06 | amro | the time of vengeance is at hand |
| 20:28.48 | Kraps | i'm trying to understand this thing |
| 20:28.53 | Fisker | haha Kraps |
| 20:29.07 | Fisker | pylons supply power to cannons btw |
| 20:29.20 | amro | I thought that was hamsters |
| 20:29.23 | Kraps | oh |
| 20:29.34 | Kraps | sigh |
| 20:29.56 | durcyn | sweet, now the launcher is red up to 100%. also, why is (Yellow) actually orange |
| 20:30.14 | Kraps | i would have taken me forever to knock them all down |
| 20:31.06 | Fisker | he lost Kraps |
| 20:31.14 | Fisker | and he had 2 pylons there |
| 20:31.57 | Kraps | he couldnt have made a comeback? |
| 20:32.13 | Fisker | not by the time any skilled player would've put him down |
| 20:32.29 | Fisker | he had nowhere near enough production facilities |
| 20:32.36 | Fisker | 4 gateways and 2 starports |
| 20:32.43 | Fisker | and you just fucked up his entire army |
| 20:32.50 | Fisker | and you got like what, 20 or 30 banshees left? |
| 20:33.16 | Kraps | those cannons were fucking me up |
| 20:33.49 | Fisker | yeah well maybe he didn't know you sucked :D |
| 20:34.10 | Kraps | ^ |
| 20:34.54 | *** join/#wowuidev augustl (~augustl@6.79-160-9.customer.lyse.net) |
| 20:35.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@dsl51B78A3E.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 20:35.44 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (~smcn@c-174-52-104-121.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:36.21 | Ackis | w00t there was a murder in my home town |
| 20:36.49 | cogwheel | so it's all growed up now? |
| 20:37.05 | Fisker | sweet Ackis |
| 20:37.07 | Fisker | pics? |
| 20:37.13 | kd3 | so, updates |
| 20:37.13 | Ackis | http://edmjr.nl/csaUho |
| 20:37.19 | kd3 | I'm not "thanked for beta testing" yet |
| 20:37.28 | kd3 | from 4 am this morning to noon I made it from 26% to 28% |
| 20:37.29 | kd3 | <3 |
| 20:37.57 | Kraps | amro: so you're saying i should leave the practice league? |
| 20:38.09 | amro | if you have the basics down, yeah |
| 20:38.23 | amro | normal league matches are wildly different |
| 20:39.36 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 20:40.42 | Ackis | haha that murder is like 2 blocks from my parents house |
| 20:40.52 | Ackis | I used to walk by that spot on the way home from the bar |
| 20:41.16 | Fisker | until you were murdered that is |
| 20:41.35 | *** join/#wowuidev augustl (~augustl@6.79-160-9.customer.lyse.net) |
| 20:41.39 | Ackis | not yet |
| 20:41.44 | Yssaril | kd3: make sure it didnt stall out (mine said it was downloading at ~200kb/s but in reality was just sitting there) |
| 20:43.22 | kd3 | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=26398720232&postId=263966951087&sid=2000#138 |
| 20:45.10 | Kraps | kd3: i'm not getting the timeline in that post |
| 20:45.14 | NightHawkTheSane | bleh, that sucks kd3 :\ |
| 20:45.21 | kd3 | it's 4:45 pm now |
| 20:45.25 | kd3 | in 12 hours... 5% |
| 20:45.28 | NightHawkTheSane | Kraps: the timeline is really simple: It's taking him a fuck-ass long time to download it :P |
| 20:45.40 | kd3 | er, 7% |
| 20:47.03 | kd3 | edited my post to make the times a bit more clear |
| 20:47.04 | kd3 | refresh |
| 20:47.07 | Kraps | so it'll take all of next week? |
| 20:47.13 | kd3 | probably |
| 20:48.00 | Ackis | is it a firewall problem kd3? |
| 20:48.10 | Yssaril | does blizzad even compress the data we are getting via the launcher? |
| 20:48.32 | kd3 | no. it's "I have a 1.5/128 connection and the upstream p2p bandwidth is killing my downstream" |
| 20:49.09 | Niv | that's a terrible connection |
| 20:49.14 | Niv | truely bad |
| 20:49.14 | kd3 | yup |
| 20:49.19 | NightHawkTheSane | can you cap your upstream somehow to avoid that? |
| 20:49.27 | Kraps | WHAT THE SHIT http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/67135/BREAKING-NEWS%3A-New-Evidence-Shows-Judge-Reade-Unlawfully-Presided-Over-Rubashkin-Trial%2C-Participated-In-Raid-Planning.html |
| 20:49.29 | kd3 | I've tried everything I can think of kernel wise |
| 20:50.00 | Lunessa | kd3: :( |
| 20:52.26 | NightHawkTheSane | ;\ |
| 20:52.59 | NightHawkTheSane | at that rate, it may well be faster for someone else to download it to a flash drive, and mail that to you :P |
| 20:53.13 | kd3 | ya |
| 20:53.28 | kd3 | I'm tempted to dump it on my netbook and chill at a starbucks for a few hours |
| 20:53.29 | Kraps | http://www.cracked.com/article_18547_6-reasons-space-travel-will-always-suck.html |
| 20:53.37 | Niv | I think my phone has more bandwidth than you do |
| 20:54.17 | NightHawkTheSane | can you suspend/resume the download? |
| 20:54.21 | kd3 | ya |
| 20:54.35 | NightHawkTheSane | if so, yeah, hitting up starbucks or whatever for a few hours over the next day or two could work |
| 20:58.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Marla (~Marla@fabe.xs4all.nl) |
| 21:03.11 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy1 (~Mike@c-76-116-64-179.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 21:07.29 | Lunessa | Kraps: Go read "The Forever War" - if you liked that article, the book will be very cool. :) |
| 21:08.42 | Kraps | haldeman? |
| 21:08.58 | Lunessa | Yes. |
| 21:09.11 | Kraps | oh cool |
| 21:11.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@dsl51B78A3E.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 21:11.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Xyphoid (~xyph@unaffiliated/xyphoid) |
| 21:13.00 | olafski | anyone able to recommend some webcomic? maybe something like questionable content |
| 21:13.08 | Xyphoid | nobody scores |
| 21:13.22 | Kraps | The head teacher at Ryecroft defended the school's decision, claiming that the Christmas dance was an additional treat set up to reward children who didn't miss a single day of school, because their goal is to "build a community that attends school and regards school as absolutely vital for the future." After all, if kids start using cancer as an excuse to skip school, it's just a very short... |
| 21:13.24 | Kraps | ...slippery slope to the kind of scorched dystopian wasteland the movies warned us about." |
| 21:13.39 | Lunessa | olafski: I could send you my WebComics favorites, but not many people like my taste in the funneh |
| 21:14.05 | Kraps | Later on, the school's administration did retract part of that decision claiming that the boy could have attended the dance after all. But not his sister. After all, they can't back completely down from the decision. They don't want to look like a bunch of assholes. |
| 21:14.46 | Kraps | cracked is the best |
| 21:15.07 | Fisker | btw |
| 21:15.29 | Fisker | i know you can fake addresses and such in e-mails, but i'm pretty sure you can't fake the header data amirite? |
| 21:15.59 | kd3 | blah |
| 21:16.07 | kd3 | can't run the addon kit |
| 21:16.14 | kd3 | grrs at koKR files breaking things |
| 21:16.20 | Fisker | harr harr |
| 21:16.23 | NightHawkTheSane | olafski: nothing in my webcomic list is /quite/ like QC, but check out something positive, smbc, and least i could do. those are all quite good. |
| 21:16.25 | Yssaril | told you :p |
| 21:16.27 | Fisker | why does kokr care kd3 ? |
| 21:16.32 | kd3 | ask the addon kit |
| 21:16.47 | Fisker | baleete it |
| 21:17.20 | Lunessa | kd3: because you don't have all of the MPQ? |
| 21:17.43 | olafski | ah I think I know somethingpositive |
| 21:17.49 | olafski | will check out nobody scores and smbc too |
| 21:18.22 | olafski | cheers guys |
| 21:18.24 | Xyphoid | subnormality is good if you like lots of words |
| 21:18.44 | Shirik_ | stab stab stab |
| 21:18.46 | Shirik_ | http://codepad.org/aXunJgum |
| 21:18.51 | NightHawkTheSane | cat and girl is good if you're a pretentious jerk ;) |
| 21:18.52 | Shirik_ | warning C4309: 'static_cast' : truncation of constant value |
| 21:19.11 | Shirik_ | someone help me out and tell me how this is truncation |
| 21:19.38 | Xyphoid | i'd recommend achewood for the character-driven stuff but it's a little .. odd at present |
| 21:19.39 | Lunessa | Shirik: jebus - someone smack that guy |
| 21:19.47 | olafski | well I am a jerk |
| 21:19.50 | Shirik_ | ? |
| 21:19.53 | Lunessa | :P |
| 21:19.53 | olafski | not sure about pretentious |
| 21:20.10 | Lunessa | Shirik: Just giving you a hard time. I haven't even looked at the code. |
| 21:20.37 | Shirik_ | :< |
| 21:22.48 | Fisker | slaps Shirik_ around a bit with a large trout |
| 21:24.21 | kd3 | emails away |
| 21:25.30 | *** join/#wowuidev augustl (~augustl@6.79-160-9.customer.lyse.net) |
| 21:29.58 | Shirik_ | Fisker: |
| 21:30.04 | Shirik_ | Can you see the future locked within the crystal ball? |
| 21:30.19 | Kraps | http://www.krysstal.com/scale.html |
| 21:32.01 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 21:35.04 | Arrowmaster | well my dads been transferred over to ohio state university medical |
| 21:37.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Fogger (~fogger@host109-152-48-17.range109-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 21:38.37 | Fogger | so the beta wrong version thing is happening to everyone right or am I special? |
| 21:38.49 | kd3 | fogger; go to bnet and get the new beta installer |
| 21:38.58 | Fogger | ah, cheers |
| 21:41.58 | Arrowmaster | my friends facebook status "Fucking facial hair, how does it work?" |
| 21:42.19 | Arrowmaster | short russian couldnt grow a beard if his life depended on it |
| 21:45.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@dsl4E5C061C.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 21:46.16 | Shirik_ | whoever came up with the idea that _tcsncmp is a good name for a function needs to go away |
| 21:46.24 | Kraps | Lunessa: http://www.cracked.com/article_18564_6-time-travel-realities-doc-brown-didnt-warn-us-about.html |
| 21:52.16 | Gnarfoz | the pre-streaming part of the beta installer still SUCKS ASS at speed. |
| 21:53.05 | Gnarfoz | how can they make such a bad installer? :( |
| 21:53.24 | kd3 | because they didn't test it outside their internal lan, most likely |
| 21:53.29 | eidolarr | by prioritizing their development time? |
| 21:55.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan (~pancake@cpe-024-163-016-179.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 21:57.13 | Gnarfoz | kd3: what |
| 21:57.17 | Gnarfoz | eidolarr: what, also |
| 21:57.18 | industrial | http://wimp.com/icelandiccelebration/ |
| 21:57.19 | industrial | :') |
| 21:57.44 | sylvanaar | Shirik: TCHAR versions of the c std library, always fun to try and guess the names |
| 21:57.48 | Gnarfoz | eidolarr: not the same people working on content. and since there's obviously someone working on the installer already, maybe they could make it one that doesn't suck :P |
| 21:58.01 | Gnarfoz | kd3: did you notice how I emphasised "pre-streaming"? :P |
| 21:58.26 | eidolarr | Gnarfoz: do you think they have dedicated installer-builder people? that must be a sweet job |
| 21:58.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Fogger (~fogger@host86-164-179-111.range86-164.btcentralplus.com) |
| 21:58.40 | Gnarfoz | eidolarr: do you think content people work on the launcher/installer? |
| 21:58.50 | Fisker | new launcher works fine |
| 21:58.50 | Arrowmaster | the guild wars streaming client is probably the best one in existance |
| 21:58.51 | Fisker | l2p |
| 21:59.04 | Gnarfoz | not the launcher, the installer, BEFORE the launcher. blahhh people not reading |
| 21:59.15 | Gnarfoz | the 654MB part |
| 21:59.17 | Fisker | worked fine too |
| 21:59.20 | Xyphoid | i was really impressed by installing free realms |
| 21:59.25 | Xyphoid | that is definitely the future |
| 21:59.30 | Gnarfoz | fine? it's taking over 20 minutes already, on a SSD |
| 21:59.32 | eidolarr | Gnarfoz: no i do not |
| 22:00.15 | Gnarfoz | eidolarr: so, stop arguing that there's not someone dedicated to the installer /at the moment/, which is all what I was saying |
| 22:00.47 | eidolarr | what makes you think there is? |
| 22:00.52 | Pneumatus | Gnarfoz: took me ~45 mins to run that installer on a sata drive |
| 22:00.54 | eidolarr | it's not like they have two rooms at blizzard hq |
| 22:00.59 | eidolarr | one for installer people and one for content people |
| 22:01.10 | eidolarr | they probably have at LEAST three rooms |
| 22:01.15 | Pneumatus | around 14gb of copy |
| 22:01.15 | Gnarfoz | Pneumatus: which is what I'm saying, that's ridiculously long for 654MB. :D |
| 22:01.33 | Pneumatus | Gnarfoz: it's extracting your live mpqs and pumping them out to new beta ones |
| 22:02.02 | Gnarfoz | Pneumatus: uhm, that would be nice, but isn't that how the *old* installer worked? |
| 22:02.35 | kd3 | yup. it's just getting you to a starting point, build 12635, to be specific. |
| 22:02.37 | Pneumatus | yeh, but then once it's made its copy it starts pulling new stuff down with the 'new launcher' |
| 22:02.38 | Gnarfoz | why would there be a hubbub about the amount of data it downloads if it's "only" downloading cataclysm content |
| 22:03.11 | Pneumatus | i'd guess it checks to see if the version its got is up to date, which in most cases it wont be |
| 22:03.22 | Pneumatus | and then pulls the latest version |
| 22:03.25 | Gnarfoz | I expected it to download everything it needed to get me to 12635 |
| 22:03.49 | Gnarfoz | I didn't expect it to still be the old split-out installer |
| 22:04.06 | Gnarfoz | (i.e. install cataclysm without the need to have an up-to-date live installation) |
| 22:04.15 | kd3 | nope. that all happens in the new launcher |
| 22:04.26 | Gnarfoz | "that" doesn't happen *at all* |
| 22:04.41 | Gnarfoz | the "that" that I expected to happen, that is. :) |
| 22:08.28 | Fisker | zomg |
| 22:08.30 | Fisker | this patch tuesday |
| 22:08.32 | Fisker | omg. |
| 22:09.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Zasurus (~IceChat7@78-105-174-15.zone3.bethere.co.uk) |
| 22:13.30 | Fisker | btw kd3 |
| 22:13.39 | kd3 | yes fisk-fisk? |
| 22:13.48 | Fisker | do you figure the new wow forums will be accompanied by an actually useful and updated wow website? |
| 22:13.58 | kd3 | I hope so |
| 22:16.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Natch (~natch@c-35cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
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| 22:16.44 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 22:18.17 | Fisker | sweet |
| 22:18.25 | Fisker | they're changing improved judgement |
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| 22:28.37 | kd3 | ooh. they updated the new launcher |
| 22:28.46 | kd3 | there's a "bug in [their] P2P implementation" |
| 22:28.51 | Cairenn | growls at the new updater |
| 22:29.01 | kd3 | s/launcher/launcher FAQ/ |
| 22:29.32 | Cairenn | I have downloaded 3 times now, trying to get the %*Q@$H thing working right |
| 22:30.06 | Dagmar | Can't you back up the downloaded material? |
| 22:32.09 | |Jelly| | Please tell me that I don't have to download it again (just got here) |
| 22:32.22 | kd3 | what build are you on, jelly? |
| 22:32.46 | Kraps | http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-silver/google-verizon-deal-the-e_b_671617.html |
| 22:34.09 | Arrowmaster | Kraps: google issued a reply on twitter saying those reports were false |
| 22:34.50 | Dagmar | Kraps: That's too much of a shift in direction for me to believe it based on the rumor mill |
| 22:34.51 | NightHawkTheSane | Arrowmaster: you'll forgive me if I don't trust them completely on this, yeah? :P |
| 22:34.57 | |Jelly| | I just downloaded umm ... 3.0.0.12694 |
| 22:35.02 | |Jelly| | 4. whatever rather |
| 22:35.05 | kd3 | then you're fine |
| 22:35.40 | Kraps | Twitter is over capacity. cant they get more servers |
| 22:35.41 | |Jelly| | BTW ... I wanted to give that blue a piece of my mind after reading his response to you last night. There's no reason to be condescending. |
| 22:35.57 | kd3 | I've already sent a few emails about that |
| 22:37.40 | |Jelly| | Is there someone that you'd like me to email too? Not really trying to get anyone in trouble, but you've been *more* than helpful on both Beta, PTR and (admittedly back in the day) UI forums and don't deserve that crap. It's not like you're posting "QQQQQ I WANNA BE IN BETA MOAR PLOXQQQQQ" or something. |
| 22:38.19 | Fisker | slaps kd3 around a bit with a large trout |
| 22:39.06 | Kraps | how was he condescending? |
| 22:39.10 | Fisker | thank you for helping us test the beta btw Cairenn |
| 22:39.17 | Cairenn | heh |
| 22:39.18 | kd3 | it's a "tone doesn't come across on the net thing" I know he wasn't trying to be condescending |
| 22:39.28 | Kraps | soooo |
| 22:40.03 | Kraps | whats the problem? |
| 22:40.04 | Fisker | lol |
| 22:40.05 | Fisker | Q. Will P2P be used when downloading while in the game? |
| 22:40.05 | Fisker | A. Yes. |
| 22:40.09 | Fisker | 1. No |
| 22:40.15 | Fisker | 2. If you're seriously considering that, then lol. |
| 22:40.18 | Lunessa | |Jelly|: I think the response was just the answer to all the people going QQ! QQ! QQ! who got in and basically expect beta to be all about double rainbows, unicorns and blow jobs for the elected few. |
| 22:40.31 | |Jelly| | By the way Lunessa, I definitely want to give you an iPad. |
| 22:40.47 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: what, it's not?! |
| 22:40.51 | |Jelly| | WAIT! WAIT RIGHT THERE! There aren't any blowjobs? |
| 22:41.05 | Lunessa | wants an iPad 'cause it looks like a fun time. |
| 22:41.18 | |Jelly| | Apparently you haven't been on Facebook in a while. :P |
| 22:41.36 | Fisker | lol with me kd3 |
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| 22:42.16 | Lunessa | |Jelly|: LULZ? |
| 22:42.48 | |Jelly| | Lets just say that ***that*** is why I don't let people use my computer. |
| 22:43.25 | Lunessa | *nod* |
| 22:44.11 | |Jelly| | brb |
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| 22:54.35 | Ackis | battle.net being slow forother people? |
| 22:58.26 | amro | nah, it just hates you Ackis |
| 22:58.34 | Fisker | batttle.netslowformeoreveryoneelseackis.com |
| 22:58.49 | Fisker | s/ttt/tt |
| 22:58.55 | amro | 0/10 Fisker |
| 22:58.59 | Fisker | just done correctly |
| 22:59.03 | amro | take a vacation, you've lost your touch |
| 22:59.10 | Fisker | it's 1am amro |
| 22:59.17 | amro | no, it's midnight |
| 22:59.17 | Fisker | and i'm writing from bed |
| 22:59.21 | amro | only my timezone matters |
| 22:59.22 | Fisker | 1am |
| 22:59.26 | Fisker | only mine actually |
| 22:59.30 | amro | nuh uh. |
| 23:00.28 | Fisker | lets see if i get thanked for testing the cataclysm beta |
| 23:00.57 | Ackis | you're writing from bed Fisker? |
| 23:01.01 | Ackis | are you naked? (please say yes) |
| 23:02.19 | Adys | Fisker: actually amro's right |
| 23:02.24 | Adys | only our timezone matters |
| 23:02.27 | Adys | what with being GMT and all |
| 23:02.29 | Adys | you know |
| 23:02.34 | Adys | your timezone being based on ours |
| 23:02.54 | Fisker | o |
| 23:02.56 | Fisker | o, |
| 23:02.59 | Fisker | fick this |
| 23:03.02 | Fisker | fucj tjhis |
| 23:03.03 | Fisker | fuck this |
| 23:03.04 | Ackis | Adys: I'm surprised the americans didn't try to make it focus on them |
| 23:03.05 | Fisker | goodnight |
| 23:03.09 | amro | now you're typing with your toes |
| 23:03.19 | amro | Ackis: the americans aren't aware of timezones |
| 23:03.27 | amro | except eastern and central |
| 23:03.43 | NightHawkTheSane | amro: no, no one gives a shit about central time. |
| 23:03.43 | Ackis | amro: well said |
| 23:03.44 | amro | and nobody knows about MST |
| 23:03.52 | Jamash | actually all time zones, GMT included, are based on UTC |
| 23:04.01 | Ackis | I know about MST |
| 23:04.02 | amro | NightHawkTheSane: sure they do, they actually bother to state it when it's obvious |
| 23:04.09 | NightHawkTheSane | americans only care about three time "zones", pacific, eastern, and utc. |
| 23:04.11 | amro | 8pm, 7 central |
| 23:04.18 | NightHawkTheSane | amro: no, that's tv executives, not americans :P |
| 23:04.21 | Lunessa | I give a shit about Central time. :P |
| 23:04.27 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: that's a lie, and you know it ;) |
| 23:04.37 | amro | NightHawkTheSane: I've never heard anyone mention a timezone outside of tv while I was in the states |
| 23:04.39 | Lunessa | NightHawkTheSane: I live in the Central TIme Zone |
| 23:04.39 | amro | ever |
| 23:04.44 | |Jelly| | Me too :( |
| 23:05.18 | Ackis | amro: CBC lists all of Canada's 5 timezones for broadcasts |
| 23:05.27 | amro | canada has 5? |
| 23:05.33 | Kraps | the mounties have international jurisdiction? :o |
| 23:05.33 | Cairenn | yes |
| 23:05.34 | Lunessa | Also, heat index of 110F right now. I dread walking to my car, where it will be 120F inside. |
| 23:05.34 | amro | I thought it was 4 as well |
| 23:05.38 | amro | or wait |
| 23:05.40 | amro | you have quebec |
| 23:05.42 | amro | but who cares about quebec |
| 23:05.46 | Ackis | pacific, mountain, central, eastern and newfie |
| 23:05.48 | NightHawkTheSane | amro: haven't worked in cross-country businesses then, much? It's not uncommon to talk about pacific & eastern zones in that case. |
| 23:06.06 | Kraps | Cairenn: thats badass |
| 23:06.10 | Ackis | eastern is +3, newefie is +3:30 |
| 23:06.16 | amro | oO |
| 23:06.18 | amro | that's just evil |
| 23:06.30 | amro | and it's quebec's timezone right? |
| 23:06.35 | Ackis | Kraps: I made comments about that a while ago :P it was on cracked.com |
| 23:06.39 | Ackis | quebec is eastern |
| 23:06.43 | amro | aw |
| 23:06.50 | amro | I wanted another reason to bash on them |
| 23:06.53 | Kraps | Ackis: i'm reading the article now |
| 23:07.29 | Kraps | http://www.cracked.com/article_18572_6-organizations-you-didnt-know-were-secretly-badass.html |
| 23:09.30 | amro | syrup smugglers? |
| 23:09.42 | amro | why would anyone smuggle syrup? is there a giant tax on it? |
| 23:10.19 | Ackis | it's the syrup that's made from clubbing baby seals |
| 23:10.54 | amro | that's disturbing |
| 23:11.12 | amro | now I want maple syrup and waffles |
| 23:11.14 | amro | :( |
| 23:11.35 | Kraps | #1 is cheerleaders |
| 23:11.51 | NightHawkTheSane | ... now i want baby seal waffles. |
| 23:12.16 | Ackis | some show on discovery demonstrated that a cheerleader falling from a throw and not being caught puts out more force than a full fledged tackle |
| 23:13.17 | Ackis | this new wow installed doesn't make sense to me |
| 23:13.26 | Ackis | dowload 650megs, install it, then profit? |
| 23:13.26 | amro | neither does your sentence |
| 23:13.36 | Ackis | installed |
| 23:13.38 | Ackis | r |
| 23:13.39 | Ackis | fuck |
| 23:13.42 | amro | gg |
| 23:13.43 | mikma | ackis: yeap, simle as that |
| 23:13.46 | Kraps | "It kind of makes you feel inadequate as a fan of your sports team; You're just cheering them. These girls are willing to _die_ for them." |
| 23:13.52 | mikma | simple* |
| 23:14.06 | Ackis | the install is taking longer than the download did it seems |
| 23:14.06 | amro | Kraps: I'm fairly certain they are not willing to die |
| 23:14.15 | Dagmar | They'll do more than that. ;) |
| 23:14.18 | amro | yes. |
| 23:14.19 | amro | that too |
| 23:14.34 | Kraps | amro: not willing but able |
| 23:14.46 | Ackis | there was a girl who played football on my team |
| 23:14.55 | Ackis | she played centre once... hiked the ball... and the ball disappeared. |
| 23:15.00 | mikma | was she a leftside player? |
| 23:15.09 | amro | hiked? what? |
| 23:15.11 | amro | oh |
| 23:15.16 | amro | you're talking about that silly armor sport |
| 23:15.23 | mikma | handegg |
| 23:15.26 | amro | yes |
| 23:15.28 | amro | that |
| 23:15.48 | mikma | it still amuses me that they call it "football" |
| 23:15.53 | amro | it's ironic that the best female footballer in history is american |
| 23:16.10 | Ackis | dontcha think? |
| 23:16.14 | Ackis | a lttle too ironic |
| 23:16.26 | Ackis | like a free ride, when you've already paid |
| 23:16.40 | Ackis | or a no smoking sign on you're cigarette break |
| 23:16.46 | NightHawkTheSane | ~lart Ackis |
| 23:16.46 | purl | puts Ackis through a wood chipper |
| 23:16.56 | Ackis | s/you're/your/ |
| 23:17.01 | amro | Ackis hasn't had caffeine |
| 23:17.10 | Dagmar | That's not ironic. |
| 23:17.18 | amro | what is it then? |
| 23:17.26 | Dagmar | TIme to take down a sign. |
| 23:17.57 | amro | more like time to quit smoking |
| 23:18.16 | Dagmar | It's smoking or strangling. Take your pick. |
| 23:19.42 | amro | depends on who you're going to strangle |
| 23:20.03 | amro | but I'm allowed to punch you in the face if you try to strangle me, but no such law exists if you smoke in my vicinity |
| 23:20.07 | Dagmar | Anti-smokers |
| 23:20.15 | amro | then yes |
| 23:20.22 | amro | I'd rather you try to strangle me |
| 23:20.41 | amro | but ending your life because you can't smoke is a silly idea =) |
| 23:20.46 | Dagmar | Twisting a screwdriver a few million times has it's advantages. |
| 23:22.25 | amro | as does taking free kicks a few thousand times |
| 23:22.36 | amro | I could probably cut through shins |
| 23:24.32 | NightHawkTheSane | yes, yes, you're both paragons of physical prowess, could beat each other up,and your dads can beat each other's dads up. move along. |
| 23:25.43 | amro | nah |
| 23:25.48 | amro | my dad would probably lose in a fist fight |
| 23:30.48 | Lunessa | ciao |
| 23:30.52 | |Jelly| | bai |
| 23:33.33 | Kraps | haha i got adam lamberts "mad world" on pandora |
| 23:33.50 | Kraps | odd |
| 23:34.10 | Kraps | maybe they watch my youtube |
| 23:36.30 | kd3 | but are they paragons of epicocity? |
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| 23:53.03 | Kraps | http://www.cracked.com/article_16676_6-emails-you-get-when-your-company-about-go-under.html |
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