| 00:00.29 | alestane | That's up there on a par with "People who searched for 'Adeste Fideles' also searched for 'snake experiments'." |
| 00:03.12 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (~theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 00:03.24 | alestane | (Real response I got from Yahoo ca. 2001.) |
| 00:04.29 | *** part/#wowuidev freebaser (~opera@c-68-63-214-197.hsd1.ms.comcast.net) |
| 00:07.55 | Shirik | ohi |
| 00:08.34 | alestane | Oh good, maybe Shirik can jumpstart the conversation. |
| 00:08.39 | Shirik | ? |
| 00:08.56 | alestane | I think I killed it. |
| 00:09.52 | fiphi | Mouth to mouth? Anyone? |
| 00:09.54 | Shirik | :( |
| 00:10.15 | Lopeppeppy | puckers up for Shirik, rawr. |
| 00:10.28 | Jamash | <haruko> MOUTH TO MOUTH! </haruko> |
| 00:10.40 | Shirik | o.o; |
| 00:10.44 | MoonWitch | lol |
| 00:10.47 | MoonWitch | poor SHirik |
| 00:11.05 | MoonWitch | he's shocked |
| 00:11.17 | MoonWitch | but Lopeppeppy looks dazzling tonight though :P |
| 00:11.59 | fiphi | brings out the snacks. |
| 00:12.33 | Lopeppeppy | I think it's sort of like Tenchi, I give him a nosebleed? |
| 00:12.47 | Shirik | lol |
| 00:13.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Cralor` (~Chris@c-75-68-70-97.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 00:17.36 | alestane | Nosebleeds are an anime convention that I've never seen satisfactorily explained. |
| 00:17.42 | alestane | anime/manga* |
| 00:18.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Hirsute (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Hirsute) |
| 00:18.53 | Lopeppeppy | Girl superpowers will never be explained. |
| 00:20.11 | Wobin | why do you need a satisfactory explanation? |
| 00:20.32 | Wobin | They blush so hard, they burst a blood vessel |
| 00:21.33 | alestane | Yes, a brief internet tour suggests that it's related to blood pressure. |
| 00:21.43 | alestane | Some things shouldn't be mixed: http://www.twolumps.net/d/20100705.html |
| 00:21.51 | Lopeppeppy | Many things are related to blood pressure, rawr. |
| 00:23.21 | Cairenn | alestane: agreed! |
| 00:24.07 | eidolarr | Shirik: C++ question |
| 00:24.11 | Jerub | i need to start levelling my alts on alliance-cael |
| 00:26.44 | vithos | is there an api to change the active chat tab? |
| 00:27.19 | cog|away | eidolarr: i might knwo |
| 00:27.32 | cog|away | (and i might spell corektly |
| 00:31.29 | eidolarr | cog|away: a few days ago shirik had an example where casting one pointer to another quietly moved the address to compensate for inheritance |
| 00:31.40 | eidolarr | doesn't that violate the C behavior of casting, if you use it on structs? |
| 00:31.54 | Shirik | huh? |
| 00:31.59 | Shirik | what does it violate? |
| 00:32.05 | Shirik | also, C++ is not C |
| 00:32.21 | eidolarr | if you cast one struct to another, wouldn't it potentially move the pointer, unlike in C? |
| 00:32.30 | Hirsute | vithos: FCF_SelectDockFrame(), I believe. |
| 00:32.33 | Shirik | C doesn't have anything to worry about |
| 00:32.38 | Shirik | that's why it doesn't |
| 00:32.58 | eidolarr | I thought that if you compiled a C program with a C++ compiler, the behavior should be the same |
| 00:32.58 | Shirik | there's no such thing as a type being another type in C |
| 00:33.03 | Shirik | it would be |
| 00:33.05 | Shirik | well |
| 00:33.08 | Shirik | not necessarily |
| 00:33.10 | Shirik | but in most cases, yes |
| 00:33.20 | Hirsute | *sigh* Anyone bored and want to write a configuration GUI for my addon? Frames, tabs, scrollsheets, etc. are giving me headaches. |
| 00:33.22 | Shirik | there is nothing you can do in C that would cause a C++ compiler to move the pointer |
| 00:33.30 | Shirik | there is no such thing as inheritance in C |
| 00:33.37 | eidolarr | ahhh of course because structs can't inherit in C, duh |
| 00:33.37 | alestane | You generally don't cast structs. If you want to address a space as more than one type of data block, build a union, or cast the struct's address to another pointer type and dereference it. |
| 00:33.49 | Hirsute | Of course, it's likely my cold is giving me the headache, still. |
| 00:35.23 | taroven | lol... Just made an addon for a guildie that turns his screen OMGNEONPINK when he forgets RF. |
| 00:35.27 | alestane | http://www.twolumps.net/d/20100607.html |
| 00:35.32 | Wobin | <3 twolumps |
| 00:35.32 | eidolarr | alestane: that depends on how sleazy you want to be =) |
| 00:35.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko1 (~Kandoko@adsl-068-159-119-207.sip.gsp.bellsouth.net) |
| 00:35.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (~Kandoko@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 00:36.20 | alestane | Actually, I used to think that you can't cast structs directly in C. That was years ago though, so my memory may have slipped. |
| 00:36.40 | eidolarr | you can cast pointers to structs |
| 00:37.00 | alestane | You can, because those are pointers. |
| 00:37.05 | eidolarr | raw structs i'm not sure |
| 00:37.16 | eidolarr | it is C, you probably can if you try hard enough |
| 00:37.48 | alestane | But I don't think you can say (struct CommBlock) someStructExpression. |
| 00:38.20 | eidolarr | yeah, I would try but I can't think of a situation where that would be defensible |
| 00:38.29 | alestane | That's what unions are for. |
| 00:38.46 | Lopeppeppy | "We the people of the united states, in order to form a more perfect union..." |
| 00:39.38 | eidolarr | you wouldn't even use a union like that though, would you? |
| 00:39.47 | eidolarr | that's a direct copy |
| 00:40.10 | alestane | "...establish justice ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare and secure the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our posterity..." |
| 00:40.20 | alestane | Sorry, was at an independence ceremony yesterday. |
| 00:40.42 | alestane | A union allows two structs to exist in the same memory space. |
| 00:41.15 | Lopeppeppy | ... murder the oxford comma on sight... |
| 00:41.20 | eidolarr | not simultaneously =) |
| 00:41.25 | eidolarr | unless you're being sleazy |
| 00:41.44 | eidolarr | I don't know when you would use a union by value instead of by address though |
| 00:42.04 | alestane | I'm pretty sure that a union in C just allows you to refer to a given allocation as any of multiple struct types. |
| 00:42.18 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-68-32-133-69.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 00:42.32 | alestane | I think I forgot a couple of commas in there, Peppy, including the Oxford one. |
| 00:43.25 | eidolarr | alestane: yeah, but in my experience the spec itself is ambiguous on struct packing, so if you want to be portable you can't try to have a union represent multiple structs at once |
| 00:43.45 | eidolarr | where "is ambiguous" means "doesn't specify" |
| 00:43.55 | alestane | Unions have always been a little touch-and-go. |
| 00:44.56 | eidolarr | yep but they have their uses, like if you have a predetermined space you want to flip between two structs without malloc |
| 00:45.25 | eidolarr | like in my thread library, the thread node was a union including a free thread node and an allocated thread node, which i could put above the thread's stack |
| 00:46.02 | alestane | Of course, I think C unions require you to address the struct member you want to decompose. The Pascal version just put all the members in the same namespace, even though it was allocating some of them in the same spaces. |
| 00:46.41 | eidolarr | It depends on the compiler but iirc you can skip that part if it's unambiguous which struct you're referencing |
| 00:47.09 | eidolarr | or at least you can in plan 9 >.> |
| 00:47.51 | alestane | Apparently I need ot reboot. |
| 00:54.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Tinyboom (~nahh@c91FD653E.dhcp.bluecom.no) |
| 00:56.13 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~alestane@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 00:56.13 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 00:57.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Sargeras (~Sargeras@cpe-72-129-100-195.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 00:57.29 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 00:57.35 | *** join/#wowuidev DJJeff (~crazyjeff@S0106001e582ff89c.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 00:57.54 | DJJeff | ~seen Arkayenro |
| 00:57.56 | purl | i haven't seen 'arkayenro', DJJeff |
| 01:07.03 | Kraps | um, why cant i find Lieutenant Horatio Lane in wowhead? |
| 01:07.49 | Thunder_Child | cog|away: yes, yes you do |
| 01:10.33 | Thunder_Child | Kraps: he doesnt want to be found |
| 01:11.10 | Kraps | <glasses\> |
| 01:11.20 | Kraps | which is why i cant find him |
| 01:16.01 | Thunder_Child | mmm...20 hr food deficit |
| 01:18.17 | Kraps | wow, Railworks has 45 DLCs so far |
| 01:19.14 | Kraps | $713.05 worth |
| 01:24.05 | msoul | This addon i've been looking for it for a while and I still couldn't tell which one |
| 01:24.26 | msoul | it displays the icon of a ability i.e. rend and a timer on top of the icon |
| 01:25.17 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (~harl@dslb-088-076-058-205.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 01:26.52 | A-KO | http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs122.snc4/36438_404393800266_641465266_4629664_3481140_n.jpg < jellyfish are very photogenic |
| 01:27.07 | Thunder_Child | lol, i read that as pornographic |
| 01:28.03 | Jerub | A-KO: for photogenic, i love seahorses. |
| 01:37.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Natch| (~natch@c-35cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 01:38.19 | Gnarfoz | http://rom.naurunappula.com/nn/0/647/199/s_527501.png |
| 01:49.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (~xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 01:58.05 | Thunder_Child | msoul: displays where? |
| 01:58.49 | airtonix | horatio lane ? |
| 02:05.39 | Kraps | airtonix: cool, its a new npc |
| 02:06.02 | Kraps | just thought of looking in wowheads cata section |
| 02:07.30 | Kraps | http://cata.wowhead.com/spell=78935 |
| 02:08.03 | Thunder_Child | looks @ Kraps |
| 02:08.33 | Kraps | questions Thunder_Child |
| 02:09.11 | Thunder_Child | answers Kraps |
| 02:09.42 | Kraps | is not satisfied with Thunder_Child's answer |
| 02:10.35 | Thunder_Child | gives a btter one to Kraps |
| 02:10.56 | Kraps | ponders |
| 02:11.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Transformer (~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 02:13.54 | *** part/#wowuidev Transformer (~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 02:14.37 | Kraps | http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1263556 |
| 02:16.47 | Kraps | nvm that link isnt interesting |
| 02:16.59 | ScytheBlade1 | that's amazing |
| 02:21.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Diao (vince@adsl-99-58-30-188.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:35.26 | Shirik | how is that not interesting? |
| 02:53.16 | cog|away | because the date stamp is may 11 |
| 02:54.04 | Shirik | !g pint to cups |
| 02:54.05 | batbot | Shirik: Liter to Gallon / Quart / Pint / Cup / Ounce <http://www.paulnoll.com/Oregon/Cooking/number-liters.html> |
| 02:54.08 | Shirik | fu |
| 02:54.09 | Shirik | just tell me |
| 02:54.55 | cogwheel | !g 1 pint in cups |
| 02:54.55 | batbot | cogwheel: Measurement Conversions <http://www.nutribase.com/convert.shtml> |
| 02:55.05 | Shirik | I already got it anyway |
| 02:55.06 | Shirik | batbot fails |
| 02:55.08 | cogwheel | well if you actually type that into google it'll tell you |
| 02:55.15 | Shirik | (19:53:50) (Shirik) @gcalc 1 pint to cup |
| 02:55.16 | Shirik | (19:53:51) (LizardBot) Shirik: 1 US pint = 2 US cups |
| 02:55.46 | Thunder_Child | huh, didnt know notepad++ will open exe files |
| 03:00.40 | Xinhuan | why wouldn't it |
| 03:00.55 | Kraps | Shirik: dunno what to say about the logo thing |
| 03:02.07 | cogwheel | notepad will open exe files if you tell it... |
| 03:02.44 | cogwheel | it sorta looks like perl |
| 03:02.59 | cogwheel | not quite as ugly tho |
| 03:04.19 | Thunder_Child | i liked perl |
| 03:04.53 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 03:04.53 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 03:06.46 | Shirik | I like purl |
| 03:06.49 | Shirik | ~hug |
| 03:06.50 | purl | ACTION hugs shirik |
| 03:12.02 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (~harl@dslb-084-063-109-144.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 03:13.55 | Antiarc | http://i.imgur.com/csyZ1.jpg |
| 03:13.58 | Antiarc | :o |
| 03:15.10 | Jerub | Antiarc: !? |
| 03:16.14 | Jerub | so how are people coping without addons in catacylsm beta? do they have the click-casting implemented ? |
| 03:16.35 | Odlaw | i'd have killed myself by now. |
| 03:16.51 | Thunder_Child | Jerub: it's unplayable :( |
| 03:16.56 | Jerub | Odlaw: well, wiped a raid, certainly. |
| 03:17.03 | Thunder_Child | at least at anything other than basic |
| 03:17.04 | Jerub | Thunder_Child: ugh. |
| 03:17.18 | Thunder_Child | 5-man....ok, raid...bah |
| 03:17.30 | Jerub | they havent' improved raid frames either? |
| 03:17.51 | DWSR | the raidframes in the default UI are fine. |
| 03:18.16 | eidolarr | they are inconvenient for healers |
| 03:18.49 | eidolarr | but onyla little bit |
| 03:19.01 | eidolarr | *only a |
| 03:19.26 | Xinhuan | Jerub, there's some macros you can use to setup click-casting |
| 03:19.30 | Xinhuan | on the forums |
| 03:19.48 | Xinhuan | so its not too bad - healers have it the worst, because tracking debuffs and buffs on your party is ... impossible |
| 03:22.13 | Antiarc | Oh, hey |
| 03:22.17 | Antiarc | Is reforging implemented yet? |
| 03:28.42 | Xinhuan | no |
| 03:30.53 | Jerub | i can't imagine healing without sufficient addons. |
| 03:31.03 | DWSR | ^ |
| 03:31.07 | DWSR | need ma clique and grid. |
| 03:31.18 | Jerub | *nod* |
| 04:03.59 | Shirik | ................. |
| 04:04.03 | Shirik | did BBC get trolled or something? |
| 04:04.26 | Shirik | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/10506482.stm |
| 04:04.28 | Shirik | "It is not known if Kim Jong-il is a fan of Justin Bieber's music" |
| 04:04.31 | Shirik | caption to one of the pictures |
| 04:05.17 | cogwheel | l2humor imo |
| 04:05.22 | cogwheel | they're british |
| 04:05.35 | Shirik | I never understood british humor |
| 04:05.37 | Shirik | sorry sorry |
| 04:05.39 | Shirik | humour |
| 04:08.24 | Corrodias | i've had it described to me that humor is generally based on the unexpected. whether a carefully planned joke or an absurdist comment. and so the fact that it's completely out of nowhere is what's funny there. |
| 04:08.37 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+m] by Shirik |
| 04:08.45 | *** mode/#wowuidev [-m] by Shirik |
| 04:08.48 | Shirik | uh |
| 04:08.49 | Shirik | wrong channel |
| 04:08.50 | Shirik | sorry |
| 04:08.53 | Corrodias | OH SURE |
| 04:09.05 | Corrodias | you're just the man trying to get me down again! |
| 04:16.10 | Jerub | how do i gem a warrior? |
| 04:16.14 | Kraps | "According to some, the first Warcraft game began as a Warhammer adaption that Blizzard was making before the license was rescinded." |
| 04:16.20 | Jerub | http://www.news.com.au/technology/back-to-the-future-fans-celebrate-wrong-day/story-e6frfro0-1225888468914 |
| 04:16.20 | Kraps | ? |
| 04:16.42 | Kraps | Jerub: spec? |
| 04:17.00 | Jerub | oh, right, prot. :) |
| 04:17.13 | Jerub | i was just throwing in +def gems, but now i'm at defence softcap |
| 04:17.22 | Kraps | stam |
| 04:17.23 | Jerub | and have a red a blue and a yellow socket free |
| 04:17.27 | Shirik | I preordered halo reach and SC2 today :D |
| 04:19.35 | Kraps | Jerub: socket bonuses almost always suck |
| 04:20.41 | *** part/#wowuidev Cralor` (~Chris@c-75-68-70-97.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 04:20.48 | Jerub | it's a +stam one tho |
| 04:20.57 | Jerub | +12 stam |
| 04:21.01 | Jerub | http://elitistarmory.com/US/Dath%27Remar/Pham |
| 04:25.28 | eidolarr | Scala is kind of cool |
| 04:28.05 | Kraps | Jerub: you need about 8% hit too |
| 04:29.04 | Kraps | i gtg, hit me up tomorrow |
| 04:32.02 | Jerub | Kraps: really? |
| 04:32.30 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: you've got a warrior spreadsheet, right? |
| 04:32.31 | Jerub | :) |
| 04:34.29 | Jerub | saving up for the saronite shoes now i think |
| 04:40.52 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (smcn@c-174-52-104-121.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 05:02.24 | Shirik | :( |
| 05:02.25 | Shirik | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3183527/is-signedobject-safe-to-deliver-to-client-applications/3183556#3183556 |
| 05:02.30 | Shirik | wtf @ accepted with 0 upvotes |
| 05:22.27 | ZorbaTHut | jerub, I did, though I haven't maintained it in forfuckinever |
| 05:22.32 | ZorbaTHut | you can find it on the EJ Warrior forum |
| 05:23.07 | ZorbaTHut | also, warrior tank gemming: fill with defense until you're at 540 defense. fill with expertise until you're not having threat problems. fill with stamina. |
| 05:23.37 | ZorbaTHut | in most cases, this means "fill with stamina" |
| 05:23.37 | ZorbaTHut | yes, you will be buying a shitload of stamina gems. on the plus side, they're relatively cheap. |
| 05:24.00 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah|away (~Ryan@c-98-251-190-189.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 05:26.43 | Jamash | make friends with a transmute spec alchemist and a jewelcrafter |
| 05:28.12 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: i have a bear |
| 05:28.22 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: so i have no problem with 'stamina gem' thing |
| 05:29.53 | ZorbaTHut | s/bear/tank/ |
| 05:29.57 | ZorbaTHut | it's not like any tank is different right now :P |
| 05:30.23 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: well, the difference with a bear is, you only gem for stamina |
| 05:30.35 | Jerub | except for the 1 nightmare tear for meta gem requirements |
| 05:30.36 | ZorbaTHut | the "expertise" mention still exists |
| 05:30.49 | ZorbaTHut | but in general it's not a problem for any tank class |
| 05:31.04 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: so i don't have to care about only 6% hit either? |
| 05:31.19 | ZorbaTHut | nope. point-for-point, expertise is strictly better than hit up until the hard cap |
| 05:31.24 | ZorbaTHut | and you will never hard cap expertise |
| 05:31.31 | Jerub | good to know |
| 05:31.42 | Jerub | well, i very nearly did on my bear |
| 05:31.50 | ZorbaTHut | the only thing that hit does better is Taunt, but Warriors have so many "get the fuck over here" buttons that you don't need to touch the Taunt glyph |
| 05:31.50 | Jerub | no where near it on my warrior yet |
| 05:32.00 | Jerub | oh, i'm missing glyphs. gotta fix that too |
| 05:32.03 | ZorbaTHut | and certainly don't need to worry about hit on it |
| 05:32.24 | ZorbaTHut | glyph of blocking, glyph of charge, glyph of thunderclap, the others are somewhat more subjective. |
| 05:33.17 | Jerub | heh |
| 05:50.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Colin__T (~ColinT@69-11-97-130.regn.static.sasknet.sk.ca) |
| 05:54.29 | Shirik | gj thunderbird |
| 05:54.30 | Shirik | you fail |
| 05:54.52 | Shirik | "The operation failed: Request to mail server timed out" I switched over to another mailbox for a second, then switched back to that one |
| 05:55.03 | Shirik | it decided this time to download all 10k emails all over again |
| 05:55.46 | Shirik | while I was reading an email in fact |
| 05:55.54 | Shirik | it was like "oh wait don't look at that yet" and removedi t from view |
| 06:03.28 | *** join/#wowuidev akhe (~akhe@0x573fa156.ronqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 06:15.34 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@d86-33-7-18.cust.tele2.at) |
| 06:19.56 | Shirik | windows 7 should come with an alarm clock |
| 06:23.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@pool017.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 06:23.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
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| 06:38.15 | Arrowmaster | So I have one level to finish in this game on hard and I will be the first known person to get the full 1000/1000 gamerscore |
| 06:39.27 | Elkano | which game? |
| 06:40.13 | Arrowmaster | Ninety-Nine Nights 2 |
| 06:40.28 | Shirik | wouldn't that be 198 nights? |
| 06:41.36 | Arrowmaster | actually the correct title is Ninety-Nine Nights â
¡ |
| 06:41.51 | Shirik | I still maintain that would be 198 nights |
| 06:42.14 | Arrowmaster | yes they actually used the unicode character for the roman numeral 2 in the title |
| 06:42.29 | *** join/#wowuidev batrick (~batrick@batbytes.com) |
| 06:43.32 | Shirik | there's a unicode character for roman numeral 2? |
| 06:43.56 | Arrowmaster | yes |
| 06:44.12 | Arrowmaster | you can construct any number in roman numerals using unicode characters |
| 06:45.06 | *** join/#wowuidev batbot (~batbot@batbytes.com) |
| 06:47.32 | Arrowmaster | â
â
¡ â
¢ â
£ â
¤ â
¥ â
¦ â
§ â
¨ â
© â
ª â
« â
¬ â
â
® â
¯ â
° â
± â
² â
³ â
´ â
µ â
¶ â
· â
¸ â
¹ â
º â
» â
¼ â
½ â
¾ â
¿ â â â â â â
â â â |
| 06:47.43 | Arrowmaster | all individual unicode characters |
| 06:47.51 | Xinhuan | o_O |
| 06:49.50 | Jamash | unicode has too many characters |
| 06:50.11 | Jamash | it's too bad they had to include all the old horrible national standard charset |
| 06:51.44 | Jamash | my #1 fav unicode character is â |
| 06:52.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (~dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 06:53.01 | Jerub | yeah, snowman's good. |
| 06:53.13 | Jerub | i like the biohazard one, but it doesn't render right unless you bump the font size. |
| 06:53.17 | Jamash | ah |
| 06:55.55 | Jamash | â is pretty good too |
| 06:56.58 | Jamash | ⨠|
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| 07:35.17 | Wobin | okay, do people get the reference behind this caption? http://cheezburger.com/View/3721591040 |
| 07:36.56 | Jamash | seems pretty clear to me |
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| 07:37.11 | Jamash | the kitten is preventing the guy from playing puzzle pirates |
| 07:37.33 | Jamash | thus, "Puzzle Pirates Anonymous" like "Alcoholics Anonymous" |
| 07:37.39 | Wobin | It seems it's completely lost for Australians |
| 07:37.54 | Wobin | Personally, I thought it was pretty straightforward =P |
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| 08:08.16 | Satisfyme | hi |
| 08:08.41 | Kalroth | hot |
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| 08:58.42 | Arrowmaster | YES |
| 08:58.44 | Arrowmaster | YES YES YES |
| 08:58.47 | Arrowmaster | I FUCKING DID IT |
| 08:58.59 | Arrowmaster | 1000/1000 in N3II |
| 09:00.14 | sylvanaar | lol |
| 09:00.18 | sylvanaar | grats |
| 09:00.44 | Arrowmaster | i have owned the game for just slightly less than a full week |
| 09:01.27 | sylvanaar | wow, i rarely event play a game i own for more than a few hours |
| 09:01.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (~Kaso@89.240.5.140) |
| 09:01.36 | Arrowmaster | and i have 93 hours of playtime according to the game (but i did leave it on the first day when i went to sleep trying to get an achievement for blocking attacks) |
| 09:01.51 | Arrowmaster | the games only been out a week |
| 09:01.59 | Arrowmaster | afaik im the first person to get 1000/1000 |
| 09:02.08 | sylvanaar | i hate that when you fall asleep and it skews the played time |
| 09:03.09 | Xinhuan | Arrowmaster just had a nergasm |
| 09:07.22 | Arrowmaster | http://www.trueachievements.com/game.aspx?gameid=2391 |
| 09:07.30 | Arrowmaster | leaderboard on right |
| 09:08.09 | Arrowmaster | when it updates the TA scores it is going to fucking go through the roof, 1 out of 202 people |
| 09:08.43 | Corrodias | beh. it has only -partial- nudity. |
| 09:08.49 | Xinhuan | so you're playing a game that only 202 people in the world owns? |
| 09:09.09 | Arrowmaster | only 202 people tracked by that site have it |
| 09:09.26 | Xinhuan | so in theory there could be other ppl with 1000/1000 but not on the site |
| 09:09.37 | Arrowmaster | apparently there was also some distribution issues with it |
| 09:10.12 | Arrowmaster | bestbuy wasnt getting it until the 2nd when it came out on the 29th |
| 09:10.30 | Corrodias | funny thing, i've never heard of the game, or its two predecessors |
| 09:11.05 | Corrodias | most significant releases i hear -something- about. what's konami doing? |
| 09:11.25 | Arrowmaster | only one predecessor |
| 09:11.46 | Corrodias | oh, right, the 3 and the 2... got it |
| 09:11.57 | Arrowmaster | and yeah i saw the demo for it on XBL the other week and was like 'what the hell theres a sequel? fucking buying it first day' |
| 09:16.00 | Arrowmaster | the game has taken over my 'best TA ratios' list http://www.trueachievements.com/gamerstats.aspx?gamerid=70055 |
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| 10:04.45 | Fisker | rage |
| 10:04.48 | Fisker | rageragerage |
| 10:04.53 | Fisker | RAGEEEEEE |
| 10:05.03 | Fisker | http://imgur.com/InveT.png |
| 10:05.13 | Fisker | Is this awesome [Y/n]: |
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| 10:22.38 | Wobin | Arrowmaster: nice, top 3 |
| 10:23.03 | Wobin | what ranks you above the other two? |
| 10:25.05 | Arrowmaster | read closer |
| 10:25.10 | Arrowmaster | i have 20 more points than them |
| 10:26.54 | Arrowmaster | when the site recalcs the points that 20 point lead should increase to more than 200 |
| 10:27.48 | Wobin | yet the game is not complete? |
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| 10:28.34 | Arrowmaster | it doesnt even tell me that ive got that last achievement yet but its increased my points by 20 for it |
| 10:28.56 | Arrowmaster | i just got it an hour and a half ago |
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| 10:53.41 | Wobin | rofl at QC |
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| 11:11.49 | airtonix | do all human females carry hallucinogenic lipstick ? |
| 11:12.13 | airtonix | or just the gold diggers ? |
| 11:14.25 | Jamash | Is this a james bond thing? |
| 11:14.44 | Jamash | or a firefly thing |
| 11:15.43 | airtonix | haha |
| 11:15.44 | airtonix | you browncoat |
| 11:16.04 | Jamash | pfft, all hail the mighty alliance |
| 11:16.16 | Jamash | I mean I don't know what you're talking about |
| 11:17.11 | Jamash | When Star Wars Galaxies came out people actually posted Rebel Alliance / Empire logos in their cubicles at work |
| 11:17.41 | Kalroth | >< |
| 11:17.55 | airtonix | thats because cubicle dwellers are sad and will cling to any symbol of hope |
| 11:18.15 | airtonix | idolatry is a fools errand |
| 11:19.41 | Jamash | nah it's because I worked at a video game company |
| 11:19.53 | airtonix | yes well |
| 11:19.58 | airtonix | there is that |
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| 11:22.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (n_a@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 11:22.21 | Fisker | bitches |
| 11:22.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~cide@c213-100-51-33.swipnet.se) |
| 11:22.23 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 11:22.28 | Fisker | hey Cide |
| 11:22.34 | Cide | hi |
| 11:23.29 | Fisker | my computer sucks :( |
| 11:23.33 | Cide | ok |
| 11:23.38 | airtonix | pebkac |
| 11:23.48 | Fisker | naw |
| 11:23.52 | airtonix | yeah |
| 11:24.06 | Fisker | pear0mf |
| 11:24.14 | airtonix | offuu |
| 11:24.21 | Fisker | nu |
| 11:24.34 | Fisker | so what's offuu mean? |
| 11:24.53 | airtonix | let me get back to you |
| 11:25.04 | Kalroth | it sounds like 'fuck you', Fisker |
| 11:25.54 | Fisker | nu |
| 11:26.11 | airtonix | yss |
| 11:26.37 | Fisker | fyi |
| 11:27.41 | Fisker | http://i.imgur.com/InveT.png <-is this awesome? |
| 11:28.03 | Jamash | ouch |
| 11:28.52 | airtonix | you've got too many us in your machine |
| 11:28.59 | airtonix | begin ethnic cleansing |
| 11:29.06 | Fisker | µs |
| 11:29.15 | airtonix | yes nasty creatures |
| 11:29.27 | airtonix | i like to use bleach |
| 11:30.00 | Fisker | i fucked you up airtonix |
| 11:30.04 | Fisker | i watched you moan |
| 11:30.11 | airtonix | in pleasure |
| 11:30.15 | Fisker | mr. airtonix * |
| 11:30.35 | airtonix | i came buckets |
| 11:32.38 | Fisker | sweet |
| 11:33.06 | Fisker | websites that only work on www.host.tld disappoints me |
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| 11:41.34 | airtonix | i did it for you |
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| 11:45.08 | airtonix | qq moar |
| 11:47.33 | `-FISKER_Q\ | slaps airtonix around a bit with a large trout |
| 11:54.19 | Jerub | shutdown |
| 11:54.30 | Jerub | did 6/12 icc10 before shutdown tho |
| 11:54.32 | Jerub | which was nice |
| 11:54.39 | Jerub | 162 EoF and i don't know what to spend them on |
| 11:54.45 | Jerub | should just gogo saronite |
| 11:55.06 | airtonix | normal people spend it on cocaine |
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| 11:55.42 | harl | hallo |
| 12:09.41 | Jamash | lua> t[nil] = 3; print(t[nil]) |
| 12:09.41 | lua_bot | Jamash: luabot:1: attempt to index global 't' (a nil value) |
| 12:09.46 | Jamash | boo |
| 12:09.54 | Jamash | lua> t = {}; t[nil] = 3; print(t[nil]) |
| 12:09.54 | lua_bot | Jamash: luabot:1: table index is nil |
| 12:09.58 | Jamash | mmk |
| 12:11.42 | Jamash | lua> 7 % 3 |
| 12:11.42 | lua_bot | Jamash: 1 |
| 12:13.06 | Kaso | you can use false as a table index but not nil, didnt know that |
| 12:14.26 | krka | lua> t = {} print(t[nil]) |
| 12:14.28 | lua_bot | krka: nil |
| 12:15.05 | foxlit | can read but you can't write. |
| 12:15.19 | Kaso | lua> t={}; t[t]=t; print(t[t[t[t[t[t[t[t[t]]]]]]]]); |
| 12:15.19 | lua_bot | Kaso: table: 0x9ffa740 |
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| 12:19.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Mikk (~Mikk@WoWUIDev/mikk) |
| 12:20.35 | Jamash | really |
| 12:21.57 | Jamash | lua> t = {}; t[false] = "F"; t[true] = "T"; for k, v in pairs(t) do print("k "..k.." v "..v) end |
| 12:21.57 | lua_bot | Jamash: luabot:1: attempt to concatenate local 'k' (a boolean value) |
| 12:22.03 | Jamash | lawl |
| 12:22.13 | Mikk | tostring omg |
| 12:22.23 | Jamash | lua> t = {}; t[false] = "F"; t[true] = "T"; for k, v in pairs(t) do print("k "..tostring(k).." v "..v) end |
| 12:22.23 | lua_bot | Jamash: k false v F, k true v T |
| 12:22.47 | Jamash | fabulous |
| 12:23.17 | Mikk | and yes you can use absolutely whatever as a table index |
| 12:23.22 | Jamash | except nil |
| 12:23.23 | Mikk | but nil isn't whatever, it's "nothing" |
| 12:23.26 | Jamash | yeah |
| 12:23.33 | Jamash | hmm |
| 12:23.41 | Jamash | lua> 0/0 |
| 12:23.41 | lua_bot | Jamash: nan |
| 12:24.02 | Mikk | lua> t = {}; t[0/0] = "woop"; t[true] = "T"; for k, v in pairs(t) do print("k "..tostring(k).." v "..v) end |
| 12:24.03 | lua_bot | Mikk: luabot:1: table index is NaN |
| 12:24.10 | Mikk | haha okay it didn't like that |
| 12:24.11 | Jamash | snap |
| 12:24.31 | Jamash | probably true for inf as well |
| 12:24.31 | Kaso | lua> t = {}; t[1/0] = "woop"; |
| 12:24.31 | lua_bot | Kaso: No output |
| 12:24.34 | krka | lua> print ({})[0/0] |
| 12:24.34 | lua_bot | krka: table: 0x8a04720, luabot:1: attempt to index a nil value |
| 12:24.34 | Kaso | hmm |
| 12:24.57 | Kaso | inf works |
| 12:24.58 | foxlit | lua> 0/0 == math.huge |
| 12:24.58 | lua_bot | foxlit: false |
| 12:24.58 | Kaso | how odd |
| 12:25.07 | Jamash | lua> t = {}; t[1/0] = "TO INFINITY AND BEYOND"; t[true] = "T"; for k, v in pairs(t) do print("k "..tostring(k).." v "..v) end |
| 12:25.07 | lua_bot | Jamash: k inf v TO INFINITY AND BEYOND, k true v T |
| 12:25.13 | Jamash | awesome |
| 12:25.17 | Jamash | infinite keys |
| 12:25.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Moonwitch (~Kelly@d51A4DB5F.access.telenet.be) |
| 12:25.46 | Kalroth | not a number is a number is not a number? |
| 12:25.51 | Jamash | lua> t = {}; t[1/0] = "INFINITY"; t[-1/0] = "MINUS INFINITY"; for k, v in pairs(t) do print("k "..tostring(k).." v "..v) end |
| 12:25.52 | lua_bot | Jamash: k inf v INFINITY, k -inf v MINUS INFINITY |
| 12:26.09 | Jamash | lua is a fun language |
| 12:26.10 | foxlit | a nan is not a nan |
| 12:26.39 | foxlit | [there are several types, which is a bit meh] |
| 12:27.33 | Jamash | lua> if (0/0) == (0/0) then print("yes") else print("no") end |
| 12:27.33 | lua_bot | Jamash: no |
| 12:27.47 | Jamash | lua> if (1/0) == (1/0) then print("yes") else print("no") end |
| 12:27.48 | lua_bot | Jamash: yes |
| 12:27.55 | Mikk | lua> print(isinf) |
| 12:27.56 | lua_bot | Mikk: nil |
| 12:28.01 | Mikk | lua> print(math.inf) |
| 12:28.02 | lua_bot | Mikk: nil |
| 12:28.04 | Mikk | lua> print(math.isinf) |
| 12:28.04 | lua_bot | Mikk: nil |
| 12:28.06 | Mikk | grr |
| 12:28.10 | Mikk | i could swear there was a function to test |
| 12:28.19 | foxlit | for infinity? Compare with math.huge |
| 12:28.23 | krka | lua> i = 0/0; print(i == i) |
| 12:28.23 | lua_bot | krka: false |
| 12:28.30 | Mikk | lua> print(math.huge) |
| 12:28.30 | lua_bot | Mikk: inf |
| 12:28.35 | Mikk | lua> print(math.huge == 1/0) |
| 12:28.36 | lua_bot | Mikk: true |
| 12:28.41 | Mikk | oho butbut |
| 12:28.47 | krka | lua> i = 1/0; print(i + 1 > i) |
| 12:28.47 | lua_bot | krka: false |
| 12:28.49 | Mikk | ah yeah inf is a valid "number" |
| 12:28.56 | Kalroth | yes |
| 12:29.01 | Mikk | it's NaN that causes the funky |
| 12:29.11 | Mikk | (remembering fun stuff from AceSerializer here) |
| 12:29.14 | krka | valid in some way, odd in others |
| 12:29.18 | krka | (but reasonably odd) |
| 12:29.25 | Mikk | lua> print(1/0 == 1/0) |
| 12:29.26 | lua_bot | Mikk: true |
| 12:29.29 | Mikk | lua> print(0/0 == 0/0) |
| 12:29.29 | lua_bot | Mikk: false |
| 12:29.32 | Mikk | tadaa! |
| 12:29.38 | Jamash | did that already! |
| 12:29.46 | krka | lua> i = 1/0; print(i * i, i / i, i - i, i + i) |
| 12:29.47 | lua_bot | krka: inf, nan, nan, inf |
| 12:30.12 | Mikk | i posit that inf/inf is 1 |
| 12:30.13 | krka | lua> print(1/0 == 2/0) |
| 12:30.13 | lua_bot | krka: true |
| 12:30.13 | Mikk | ! |
| 12:30.18 | amro | I like the symmetry there |
| 12:30.51 | Mikk | but yeah i'm aware of how screwy number theory is.. i just don't know it myself :P |
| 12:31.54 | Jamash | let me see if I remember this math joke correctly |
| 12:32.07 | Mikk | and can my bank smartcard drivers please start working |
| 12:32.15 | Mikk | curses teh interpipes |
| 12:33.41 | Jamash | if a = 0 and b = 1, the what is the value of (a^3)(b)/a |
| 12:34.17 | Mikk | still 0? |
| 12:34.26 | Jamash | well, let's do some algebra |
| 12:34.44 | Jamash | a^3 = (a)(a)(a) |
| 12:34.56 | Jamash | a/a = nan |
| 12:35.21 | Jamash | ergo the answer is (b)(a)(nan)(a) |
| 12:35.30 | Kalroth | naners! |
| 12:35.41 | Mikk | i arrive at "baa" myself :P |
| 12:36.24 | Jamash | lua> a = 0; b = 1; print((a^3)(b)/a) |
| 12:36.25 | lua_bot | Jamash: luabot:1: attempt to call a number value |
| 12:36.29 | Jamash | doop |
| 12:36.33 | Jamash | lua> a = 0; b = 1; print((a^3)*(b)/a) |
| 12:36.33 | lua_bot | Jamash: nan |
| 12:36.42 | Jamash | correct! |
| 12:36.53 | Mikk | lua> a = 0; b = 1; print((a^2)*(b)) |
| 12:36.54 | lua_bot | Mikk: 0 |
| 12:37.05 | Jamash | can't cancel 0/0 |
| 12:37.11 | Jamash | it is against math law |
| 12:37.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (~Lopeppepp@141.222.29.18) |
| 12:37.12 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 12:37.30 | Mikk | i just simplified your equation.. if you don't want it to be generic, don't use letters :P |
| 12:37.54 | Jamash | huggles Lopeppeppy. |
| 12:38.04 | Lopeppeppy | Morning, Jamash. Happy Twos-daze. |
| 12:38.11 | Mikk | rebooty |
| 12:38.20 | Jamash | I want a shirt that says Thank Freya It's Friday |
| 12:39.34 | Lopeppeppy | Mmm, sounds like a nice one. Cafe Press to the rescue! They make anything. |
| 12:40.11 | Jamash | me want servers up |
| 12:40.55 | Jamash | Lopeppeppy: I'd do that but I'm too lazy |
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| 12:45.26 | Fierceflame | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:46.08 | Lopeppeppy | already almost 90 degrees, crappy day to be out walking up hills. Whee! |
| 12:46.20 | Jamash | Fierceflame: yes |
| 12:46.56 | Jamash | just do local short = SomeReallyLongAndDifficultToTypeName |
| 12:47.35 | Fierceflame | Kay thanks :D |
| 12:47.46 | Fierceflame | Seems logical xD |
| 12:47.52 | Jamash | yep |
| 12:48.03 | Jamash | gets used a lot in macros to make them shorter |
| 12:48.32 | Fierceflame | That also possible for functions? so local short(thingy) = SomeReallyLongAndDifficultToTypeName(thingy) |
| 12:48.51 | Jamash | a function is really a reference to a function |
| 12:49.03 | Jamash | so you would use local short = reallylongthing |
| 12:49.11 | Jamash | and then call short(something) |
| 12:49.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Mikk (~Mikk@WoWUIDev/mikk) |
| 12:49.28 | Fierceflame | Owkay |
| 12:49.34 | Jamash | you only use parentheses when you're actually calling the function |
| 12:49.42 | Fierceflame | Kay |
| 12:50.20 | Fierceflame | One last question, if you set it that way and then change the value off reallylongthing, would it also instantly change the meaning of the shortcut? |
| 12:50.50 | Kaso | nope, you retain a reference to the old function |
| 12:51.02 | Fierceflame | Kay |
| 12:51.27 | Kaso | the same technique is used for hooking local old = thing; function thing(...) print"Hooked"; old(...); end |
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| 12:59.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Chris____ (~Chris@0x573f1a8f.hjnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 13:02.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Nuc (~Nuc@0x573f1a8f.hjnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 13:09.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Aggrolistic (~Chris@0x573f1a8f.hjnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 13:09.54 | Aggrolistic | Hi ^^ |
| 13:10.04 | Kraps | ohai |
| 13:10.29 | Aggrolistic | I was told to go here to talk with some experts :D So here goes my question... |
| 13:10.50 | Aggrolistic | Does anybody know of a framework to create actionbars? |
| 13:11.05 | Kraps | you were told wrong |
| 13:11.09 | Kraps | kidding! |
| 13:11.10 | Aggrolistic | I am currently using oUF for my units |
| 13:11.11 | Aggrolistic | xD |
| 13:11.24 | Aggrolistic | And i would like to move to some more "diy"-ish solution |
| 13:11.53 | |Jelly| | oUF is about as DIY as you can get. :| |
| 13:12.10 | Aggrolistic | Yea, but I'm looking for an actionbar framework |
| 13:12.14 | Aggrolistic | oUF is units ^^ |
| 13:12.53 | Aggrolistic | Or should i get my lazy ass moving and code my own? |
| 13:13.09 | foxlit | |Jelly|: oUF is about as DIY as you can get. :| << You could of course write everything on your own. |
| 13:13.48 | |Jelly| | Hence why I said "*about as* DIY" :P |
| 13:13.54 | Aggrolistic | I think you misunderstood me (My english is bad so that might be the reason) oUF wont help me with my actionbars, only units. |
| 13:14.03 | foxlit | Nah, we didn't. |
| 13:14.11 | Aggrolistic | So I misunderstood you? xD |
| 13:14.17 | foxlit | We're arguing semantics over an unrelated tangential comment. |
| 13:14.38 | Aggrolistic | Right... google helped me on that one :P |
| 13:14.44 | Lopeppeppy | They do that, Aggrolistic. |
| 13:14.50 | Aggrolistic | They do? :O |
| 13:15.03 | |Jelly| | We're arguing? :( But I luff you, foxlit! |
| 13:15.08 | Lopeppeppy | Argue about that which is not is not your question. :) |
| 13:15.10 | foxlit | Nah, we aren't :P |
| 13:15.28 | foxlit | Aggrolistic: to the best of our knowledge, no such framework exists. |
| 13:15.36 | foxlit | Additionally, there isn't really any reason for it to exist |
| 13:15.40 | Aggrolistic | I see |
| 13:15.45 | Aggrolistic | We have bartender4 and dominos :P |
| 13:16.01 | foxlit | Indeed -- the bar mods themselves allow you to customize them to your hearts content. |
| 13:16.10 | Lopeppeppy | Let's see... yeah. Flexbar was the closest, not sure that works anymore. |
| 13:16.22 | Aggrolistic | Could anybody point out an actionbarmod that is kinda between bartender and a random gryphonremover :D |
| 13:16.33 | Aggrolistic | FlexBar... |
| 13:16.34 | Aggrolistic | ? |
| 13:16.38 | Aggrolistic | googling :P |
| 13:17.00 | Lopeppeppy | An old bar mod, not sure that it works anymore. Also CogsBar, which should still work. |
| 13:17.22 | Aggrolistic | Yea Flexbar seems dead. |
| 13:17.41 | Ycarene | Flexbar used to be the shiznit but 2.0 killed it. |
| 13:17.52 | Aggrolistic | Cogsbar seems dead too |
| 13:17.55 | |Jelly| | CogsBar smells like gnome -- fair warning. |
| 13:17.59 | Lopeppeppy | Cogsbar was retired too. 2.0 killed a lot of those things. |
| 13:18.06 | Aggrolistic | I do only have gnome characters |
| 13:18.24 | |Jelly| | Oh lawdy! Shower time them! *hugs Peppy* |
| 13:18.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Kivnel (~lenvik@23.213.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 13:18.40 | Aggrolistic | Dammit xD |
| 13:18.47 | Lopeppeppy | Eew. Hugs *after* showers, kk? |
| 13:19.46 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@d86-33-7-18.cust.tele2.at) |
| 13:20.07 | Aggrolistic | Guys.. should I "just" use Bartender/Dominos ? - Or is it worth coding my own? |
| 13:20.15 | mikma | aggrolistic: no. |
| 13:20.27 | Aggrolistic | To the first or second part? :P |
| 13:20.30 | mikma | yes |
| 13:20.34 | Aggrolistic | wtf? xD |
| 13:20.42 | mikma | calm down man |
| 13:20.56 | Aggrolistic | Am i getting punk'd? |
| 13:21.10 | mikma | maybe |
| 13:21.15 | Aggrolistic | I KNEW IT! |
| 13:21.18 | Aggrolistic | Back to the topic.. |
| 13:21.24 | Aggrolistic | I found http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info7438-idActionbar.html#info <-- this |
| 13:21.34 | Aggrolistic | I guess that could be a reference |
| 13:21.49 | Aggrolistic | at 1.71kb it should be lightweight |
| 13:22.05 | Aggrolistic | "Thanks for posting this addon. It is a good base for me to modify for my own setup." delicious comment |
| 13:22.24 | mikma | lol idActionbar, the author is a noob, don't use it |
| 13:22.34 | Aggrolistic | Oh |
| 13:22.39 | Aggrolistic | Is it completely broken? |
| 13:22.56 | mikma | oh, my joke failed coz industrial is not here |
| 13:23.08 | Aggrolistic | So he isn't a noob? |
| 13:23.22 | mikma | nope, he's a good fellow |
| 13:23.40 | Aggrolistic | Cool. I'm loading up wow now to check it out |
| 13:23.43 | mikma | always had a thing for lightweight addons, so that's why he codes most of his stuff himself |
| 13:24.24 | Aggrolistic | "Login server busy"... |
| 13:24.24 | Aggrolistic | Nice. Perfect, actually |
| 13:24.24 | Aggrolistic | I cant login ! |
| 13:24.24 | Aggrolistic | Dammit! :D |
| 13:26.15 | Aggrolistic | Oh-oh |
| 13:26.17 | Aggrolistic | Bad news |
| 13:26.34 | Aggrolistic | table file tells me that it's for 2.4 :P |
| 13:27.09 | mikma | should still work |
| 13:27.24 | Aggrolistic | Okay cool. Now we just need to loginserver to get online... |
| 13:27.26 | Aggrolistic | -.- |
| 13:27.43 | Wobin | there is something inherently awesome with http://www.blondie.net/photo/debbie-and-china-mieville/ |
| 13:28.48 | Aggrolistic | lol |
| 13:29.00 | Aggrolistic | Well bb I'm off, thanks for helping ^^ |
| 13:30.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Odlaw (ozzy@c-98-245-3-204.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 13:31.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (~chatzilla@99-92-174-69.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net) |
| 13:32.33 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 13:39.19 | *** join/#wowuidev robokitty (~robotusch@50A2E67F.flatrate.dk) |
| 13:49.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Kazie (Kazie@188.114.185.143) |
| 13:49.42 | |Jelly| | hugs Peppy AFTER shower! |
| 13:50.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (~Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 13:50.22 | Adys | http://garfieldminusgarfield.net/post/761991264 |
| 13:51.21 | Lopeppeppy | Yay, clean hugs are bestest |
| 13:54.33 | |Jelly| | :P |
| 13:55.34 | Fisker | slaps Lopeppeppy around a bit with a large trout |
| 13:58.43 | Fisker | slaps Lopeppeppy around a bit with a large trout |
| 13:59.04 | Fisker | (Neither the trout or me has showered) |
| 13:59.23 | |Jelly| | slaps Fisker around with a beta key! |
| 13:59.59 | Fisker | slap me around with a cata beta instead |
| 14:00.10 | |Jelly| | That's a little too kinky -- sorry. |
| 14:01.19 | cogwheel | slaps Fisker around with a used beta key |
| 14:01.33 | Fisker | there are no beta keys |
| 14:02.36 | mikma | ~cogwheel++ |
| 14:03.04 | Fisker | ~cogwheel-- |
| 14:03.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Mihau (~asmith@69.73.16.202) |
| 14:03.47 | mikma | sure, be that lame |
| 14:04.02 | Kraps | oh, on the topic of showers, the ones that have separate knobs for hot and cold are fail |
| 14:04.22 | Fisker | i'm very lame mikma |
| 14:04.27 | Fisker | unless i get beta |
| 14:05.11 | Fisker | dies mikma |
| 14:05.13 | Fisker | DIE DIE DIE |
| 14:05.15 | Fisker | success |
| 14:06.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@dsl4E5C070C.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 14:06.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik|Ghost (~nospam@ppp182-123.broadband.gorge.net) |
| 14:06.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik|Ghost (~nospam@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 14:06.28 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik|Ghost] by ChanServ |
| 14:06.45 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 14:06.48 | Fisker | i own you |
| 14:07.08 | Shirik|Ghost | k |
| 14:07.10 | Kraps | dude its shiriks ghost |
| 14:07.16 | Kraps | dont mess with it |
| 14:08.13 | Thunder_Child | Fisker |
| 14:08.51 | Maldivia | short corpse run |
| 14:10.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Colin_T (~ColinT@69-11-97-130.regn.static.sasknet.sk.ca) |
| 14:11.02 | Kraps | this thread is funny http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=13816898435&sid=1&pageNo=1 |
| 14:13.13 | Wobin | they have a point |
| 14:13.20 | Wobin | it's a -terrible- accent |
| 14:13.42 | Fisker | slaps Wobin around a bit with a large trout |
| 14:14.46 | Kraps | someone says that's probably the point, using a stereotyped accent that the world knows |
| 14:15.23 | Wobin | well |
| 14:15.29 | Wobin | I don't mind a stereotyped accent |
| 14:15.31 | Maldivia | it can only be worgen you are talking about then |
| 14:15.40 | Fierceflame | Okay one last bug I can;t seem to fix :S |
| 14:15.47 | Kraps | whereas a legit accent wouldn't really mean anything |
| 14:15.51 | Wobin | but that's not a stereotypical accent |
| 14:15.54 | theorbtwo | ...because nobody else has an *even slightly* stereotyped accent! |
| 14:16.03 | Wobin | that's a horribly badly done accent |
| 14:16.16 | Wobin | Lara Croft Valley Girl |
| 14:17.10 | Wobin | I totally put in a vote for Stephen Fry to do voice acting =) |
| 14:19.24 | Kraps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNoS2BU6bbQ |
| 14:19.43 | Shirik | why do they all them "sketches" |
| 14:19.46 | Shirik | call* |
| 14:20.21 | Fierceflame | I've got a tablefor messages, it should print a message with the value that the player put through a slashcommand, but as the table is initialized on the first run it doesnt display the correct value, but the value that it was when it initialized :S Anyone knows how to fix this? Code: http://toptop18.pastey.net/138342/49 |
| 14:20.50 | Kraps | Shirik: cause it is? |
| 14:21.01 | Wobin | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sketch_comedy |
| 14:21.49 | Wobin | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_SBCUfEnXA&feature=related |
| 14:21.54 | Wobin | (australian humour) |
| 14:23.22 | Shirik | failure Wobin |
| 14:23.27 | Shirik | I did not ask what a sketch was |
| 14:23.32 | Shirik | but rather why they called them sketches |
| 14:23.33 | Wobin | yeah, it didn't define it well |
| 14:24.56 | Wobin | http://podictionary.com/?p=202 |
| 14:25.00 | Wobin | there you go |
| 14:25.08 | Wobin | it totally doesn't define it either |
| 14:26.04 | Fierceflame | Btw, Shirik, What are the big differences between v1 and V2 of the wowprogramming book? |
| 14:26.14 | Wobin | perhaps it's due to the shortness of the performance |
| 14:26.45 | Kraps | Wobin: that accent is kinda hard to understand :( |
| 14:27.08 | Wobin | Kraps: Kev does have a pretty strong accent |
| 14:28.17 | fiphi | Where can I hear the worgen accent? |
| 14:29.01 | Kraps | fiphi: http://www.wow.com/2010/06/30/cataclysm-beta-worgen-silly-and-flirt-sounds/ |
| 14:29.06 | fiphi | Thanks :) |
| 14:29.25 | Kraps | NSFW |
| 14:29.35 | fiphi | Wasn't it supposed to be cockney? |
| 14:29.40 | fiphi | According to that forum thread. |
| 14:29.40 | Fisker | slaps Shirik around a bit with a large trout |
| 14:31.26 | Jamash | OI GUVNAH |
| 14:31.35 | Wobin | "Did you know I'm a worgen doner?" |
| 14:31.37 | Wobin | argh |
| 14:31.39 | Wobin | >< |
| 14:32.06 | Jamash | the female flirts are naughty |
| 14:33.16 | Wobin | the humanoid male ones are like Austin Powers |
| 14:34.07 | Kraps | Jamash: you should hear the goblin ones |
| 14:34.15 | Kraps | http://www.wow.com/2010/07/01/cataclysm-beta-goblin-flirt-and-silly-sounds/ |
| 14:35.14 | Fierceflame | I like my women like my fuses xD |
| 14:35.25 | *** join/#wowuidev taroven|Rawr (~taroven|C@HW-ESR1-208-102-8-69.fuse.net) |
| 14:36.32 | Wobin | hm, where's the worgen dance from? |
| 14:37.34 | *** join/#wowuidev jacobeiting (~jacobeiti@phy-dhcp-34-254.mps.ohio-state.edu) |
| 14:38.19 | Lopeppeppy | Numa numa! |
| 14:40.25 | jnwhiteh | Fierceflame: why would Shirik know? |
| 14:40.38 | jnwhiteh | He didn't have anything to do with either book! |
| 14:40.43 | Shirik | because I know everything |
| 14:40.47 | Jamash | ^ |
| 14:40.47 | Shirik | what are we talking about? |
| 14:40.51 | Jamash | except... how to love |
| 14:41.00 | jnwhiteh | for some reason, he asked you abotu the differences between the two versions of my book. |
| 14:41.05 | Jamash | no wait that's fisker, mybad |
| 14:41.08 | Shirik | oh |
| 14:41.30 | Jamash | oh sure it's "your" book just because you wrote it and stuff |
| 14:41.42 | Shirik | Fierceflame: Perhaps the biggest difference is that they were released in different years |
| 14:41.51 | Jamash | "rick roe"? |
| 14:41.55 | Lopeppeppy | Shirik loves me, it's okay. |
| 14:41.59 | jnwhiteh | Fierceflame: I'd be happy to answer any questions you have, but there quite a few new chapters, the content has been updated to reflect the latest patch level, and the widget API reference is much more complete. |
| 14:41.59 | Shirik | <3 |
| 14:42.01 | Lopeppeppy | Rick Roe is another author. He's cool. |
| 14:42.02 | jnwhiteh | Jamash: Gazmik Fizzwidget. |
| 14:43.05 | Jamash | that's like the fakest name ever |
| 14:43.28 | Wobin | hehe, it's like something out of Scooby Doo |
| 14:43.32 | jnwhiteh | he's a goblin |
| 14:43.37 | Jamash | it's halfway between "Richard Roe" and "rickroll" |
| 14:43.38 | jnwhiteh | they all have fake names =) |
| 14:43.40 | jnwhiteh | oph |
| 14:43.44 | Wobin | "Oh no, it's a ghost, Scoob!" "Rick Roe!" |
| 14:43.46 | jnwhiteh | his employer |
| 14:43.49 | jnwhiteh | yeah =) |
| 14:44.05 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-68-32-133-69.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 14:44.53 | Jamash | do you ever get annoyed at blizzard making your book out of date, or do you consider it an opportunity to sell more editions? |
| 14:45.19 | jnwhiteh | I don't care about selling books |
| 14:45.21 | jnwhiteh | never have |
| 14:45.34 | jnwhiteh | but I don't get annoyed with Blizzard either |
| 14:45.38 | jnwhiteh | given that they use my book internally =) |
| 14:45.48 | Jamash | in that case, http://creativecommons.org/ |
| 14:45.51 | jnwhiteh | I consider it to be a bizarre parasitic relationship |
| 14:45.54 | jnwhiteh | Jamash: Not possible, sorry |
| 14:45.55 | *** join/#wowuidev zenzelezz (~zenzelezz@cm-84.212.107.146.getinternet.no) |
| 14:46.02 | Jamash | publisher owns the copyright? |
| 14:46.05 | jnwhiteh | Of course |
| 14:46.10 | jnwhiteh | they paid for me to do the work |
| 14:46.13 | jnwhiteh | that's how these things work =) |
| 14:46.14 | Jamash | ah |
| 14:46.21 | Jamash | work for hire sort of deal |
| 14:46.28 | jnwhiteh | no, standard book advance/royalties |
| 14:46.44 | Jamash | okay |
| 14:46.49 | jnwhiteh | the point is, the book never would have gotten written if they hadn't given me an advance that was sufficient for me to quit my job and write exclusively for months =) |
| 14:46.54 | Kraps | "bizarre parasitic relationship" kinky |
| 14:46.55 | Jamash | makes sense |
| 14:47.00 | jnwhiteh | I'm working on dual licensing for the API |
| 14:47.05 | jnwhiteh | but its all freely available, so that's something. |
| 14:47.09 | Jamash | neat |
| 14:47.34 | Jamash | I think it's weird blizzard is encouraging people to sell starcraft maps but prohibiting selling wow addons |
| 14:47.47 | sylvanaar_atwork | do they get a cut |
| 14:47.50 | Jamash | of course |
| 14:47.53 | sylvanaar_atwork | well then |
| 14:48.08 | Jamash | why not set up an addon store like the wowi april fools joke? |
| 14:48.14 | jnwhiteh | administrative overhead |
| 14:48.15 | sylvanaar_atwork | well |
| 14:48.24 | Jamash | ok, so why do it for starcraft then? |
| 14:48.25 | jnwhiteh | the S2 environment is WAY more limited than the Addon sysetm in WoW |
| 14:48.34 | Jamash | I suppose that's the biggest reason |
| 14:49.09 | Jamash | there's no true persistence in starcraft also |
| 14:49.32 | Jamash | a SC2 map can't mail all your gold to <redacted.com>'s account |
| 14:49.44 | Jamash | whereas a wow addon could |
| 14:50.00 | Fierceflame | Ah sorry Jnwhiteh ^^" Was just that I though Shirik was a co-author and eh was onlineish :P |
| 14:50.02 | sylvanaar_atwork | they'd need an apple style review process |
| 14:50.10 | Jamash | eugh |
| 14:50.11 | jnwhiteh | Fierceflame: I'm not offended, just amused. |
| 14:50.14 | jnwhiteh | *shudder* |
| 14:50.17 | jnwhiteh | that would be terrible. |
| 14:50.21 | Jamash | apple review process is teh suck |
| 14:50.24 | jnwhiteh | then you'd get into addon piracy |
| 14:50.25 | jnwhiteh | etc. |
| 14:50.32 | sylvanaar_atwork | yeah, it is - it still takes forever |
| 14:50.33 | Jamash | "we're open for business to anyone except adobe" |
| 14:50.35 | jnwhiteh | and its tough to close something that was once open |
| 14:50.57 | Jamash | "oh and mozilla" |
| 14:51.12 | Fisker | i could've taken you under my wings jnwhiteh |
| 14:51.22 | jnwhiteh | Fisker: it smells under there =/ |
| 14:51.28 | Fisker | indeed it does |
| 14:51.31 | sylvanaar_atwork | frankly id rather bliz worked on getting more content into wow than policing its addons |
| 14:51.41 | Jamash | It's hilarious hearing apple preach about open standards on one of the most closed computing platforms in existence. |
| 14:51.49 | Fierceflame | Hmmm I'll ask again if I cant find something in the current book/site :P |
| 14:52.05 | jnwhiteh | well the secure templates chapters are out of date in the old book |
| 14:52.11 | Fisker | i don't think any content was cut to police addons |
| 14:52.15 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (~Miranda@200.41.202.84.customer.cdi.no) |
| 14:52.15 | jnwhiteh | some/most of whats there should continue to work.. but its the old (not nice) way to do things. |
| 14:52.19 | Jamash | different departments |
| 14:52.30 | Kraps | Jamash: "our closed is better that your closed" |
| 14:52.35 | Jamash | bingo |
| 14:52.46 | Fierceflame | Like there's now a print function in wow? Only noticed that a few days ago xD |
| 14:52.53 | Jamash | been there a while |
| 14:52.56 | jnwhiteh | yep |
| 14:52.59 | Jamash | learn to use /dump |
| 14:53.08 | jnwhiteh | every single chapter was changed in the new edition, updated for new content |
| 14:53.11 | Jamash | it will make things so awesome |
| 14:53.15 | jnwhiteh | lol |
| 14:53.16 | sylvanaar_atwork | i like the ace2 style dump |
| 14:53.16 | Fisker | so jnwhiteh |
| 14:53.17 | Thunder_Child | i /dump all the time |
| 14:53.36 | Fisker | are you actually writing or just search & replace? |
| 14:53.39 | Fierceflame | Hmmmkay, will there be a new edition for cataclysm to? |
| 14:53.59 | Fisker | a |
| 14:54.09 | jnwhiteh | Fierceflame: No, I have to finish my PhD at some point |
| 14:54.13 | jnwhiteh | and not much is/has changed |
| 14:54.16 | Fisker | phd in addons? |
| 14:54.17 | jnwhiteh | 2.0 was a HUGE change |
| 14:54.17 | Fisker | :3 |
| 14:54.21 | jnwhiteh | and 3.0 was a fairly large one as well |
| 14:54.22 | jnwhiteh | i wish |
| 14:54.33 | Fierceflame | Kay |
| 14:54.40 | Kraps | http://www.wor710.com/2010/07/06/local-news/NYC-anglophiles-aflutter-ahead-of-queen-s-visit/7623236 |
| 14:54.49 | Fisker | btw Shirik|Gh |
| 14:55.22 | Fisker | do you know of any way to diagnose driver-related issues hogging up the kernel without actually disabling them one by one? |
| 14:55.32 | Fierceflame | problem: I've got a table for messages, it should print a message with the value that the player put through a slashcommand, but as the table is initialized on the first run it doesnt display the correct value, but the value that it was when it initialized :S Anyone knows how to fix this? Code: http://toptop18.pastey.net/138342/49 |
| 14:55.55 | jnwhiteh | you need to do that at runtime |
| 14:56.08 | jnwhiteh | make it a string you can pass to string.format |
| 14:56.21 | jnwhiteh | for example |
| 14:57.25 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 14:57.49 | kd3 | yay! net access |
| 14:58.00 | Lopeppeppy | Yaaay! *wild muppet arms* |
| 14:58.21 | Fisker | hey kd3 |
| 14:59.58 | Fisker | kd3 |
| 14:59.59 | Fisker | fix my kernel |
| 15:00.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Vangual (~bah@pdpc/supporter/active/vangual) |
| 15:00.20 | Jamash | have some Kernel Xanax |
| 15:00.50 | Fisker | wut |
| 15:01.00 | Jamash | it prevents kernel panics |
| 15:01.07 | Jamash | badum tish |
| 15:01.17 | Fisker | my kernel doesn't panic |
| 15:01.25 | Jamash | what's wrong with it |
| 15:01.28 | Fisker | it keeps it cool, might pop a few blue screens, and reboot, but it's cool |
| 15:01.47 | Jamash | read yo logfiles |
| 15:01.48 | Fisker | http://i.imgur.com/InveT.png <-there's gold in them there hills |
| 15:02.58 | Jamash | have you tried disabling and re-enabling various devices, one at a time? |
| 15:03.06 | Fisker | yep |
| 15:03.16 | Fisker | there was one that helped a bit, but not enough |
| 15:03.42 | Kraps | the Queen is visiting NYC in 100+ degree weather |
| 15:03.46 | Jamash | your differential is bad |
| 15:04.00 | Fisker | i wasn't sure with all the red bars and stuff |
| 15:04.08 | Fisker | thought that was like better than green bars |
| 15:04.34 | Jamash | bigger bars are always better |
| 15:04.38 | Jamash | and red makes things go fast |
| 15:04.42 | Fisker | indeed |
| 15:04.49 | Jamash | it's science |
| 15:05.09 | Jamash | s/ce/ce fiction/ |
| 15:05.10 | Fisker | hmm |
| 15:05.24 | Fisker | looks like the downclocking shit on my cpu is still enabled |
| 15:05.32 | Jamash | could be bus related |
| 15:05.38 | Fisker | probably not the source of the problem, but definitely something i need to disable |
| 15:05.54 | Jamash | have you removed and re-seated your ram and device cards? |
| 15:06.34 | Jamash | also, disk drive cables |
| 15:06.48 | Jamash | although I'm sure that's less of an issue with serial ata than it used to be with pata |
| 15:09.06 | Ackis | ~comfort Arrowmaster |
| 15:09.07 | purl | There, there, Arrowmaster. It's OK. I'm here for you. |
| 15:10.57 | Jamash | do either wowi or curse have browser search plugins? |
| 15:13.42 | cog|work | there's a website that'll make a search plugin for any search engine iirc |
| 15:14.11 | Jamash | nvm, found 'em on mycroft |
| 15:14.17 | Jamash | there should be official ones though |
| 15:14.38 | Jamash | whyyyyyyy won't firefox let me rename search engines |
| 15:14.45 | Lopeppeppy | Hates you |
| 15:18.33 | Kraps | http://music-mix.ew.com/2010/07/06/prince-internet-over/ |
| 15:18.48 | Jamash | awesome |
| 15:19.10 | cog|work | Jamash: diss C++ less and firefox will lurv you again |
| 15:19.14 | Jamash | Prince: "The internet is over" |
| 15:19.20 | Jamash | Internet: "Prince is over" |
| 15:20.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik_ (d1d8bcf7@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 15:20.53 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik_] by ChanServ |
| 15:21.25 | Jamash | shirik |
| 15:21.30 | Jamash | make a opensearch plugin for wowi |
| 15:22.23 | Jamash | cog|work: I used to follow mozilla dev internals |
| 15:22.38 | Jamash | layers upon layers of c++ apis |
| 15:25.10 | DWSR | http://questionablecontent.net/ |
| 15:25.35 | Jamash | I dunno, that link seems questionable |
| 15:26.36 | cog|work | questions its questionability |
| 15:26.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (kalroth@3e6bad58.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 15:27.18 | DWSR | of the content? |
| 15:27.32 | DWSR | Or just the questionability of the questionability? |
| 15:28.07 | DWSR | It just got meta up in here. |
| 15:28.57 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (smcn@c-174-52-104-121.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 15:29.52 | amro | anyone here using opengl? (as in developing with) |
| 15:31.25 | amro | whoa there, not all at once! |
| 15:34.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Bartlomehus (~Michel@wetering.xs4all.nl) |
| 15:34.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (n_a@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 15:34.55 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 15:36.47 | Fisker | hmm |
| 15:36.54 | cog|work | noooooooooooooooooo |
| 15:36.57 | Fisker | cog|work |
| 15:37.00 | Fisker | yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees |
| 15:37.13 | Fisker | did that guy who talked about how much the beta sucked get removed from the beta? |
| 15:37.30 | cog|work | he disappeared from that thread before you said anything |
| 15:37.45 | Fisker | well duh |
| 15:37.47 | Fisker | i no has beta |
| 15:38.07 | Fisker | ok |
| 15:38.10 | Fisker | that's pure motherfucking magic |
| 15:38.23 | cog|work | fucking magics how do they work |
| 15:38.41 | Fisker | keep a beta spot for me while i reboot |
| 15:39.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (~chatzilla@99-92-174-69.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net) |
| 15:41.26 | *** join/#wowuidev taroven|Grr (~taroven|C@HW-ESR1-208-102-8-69.fuse.net) |
| 15:42.45 | *** join/#wowuidev malreth (~triti@dhcp-128-83-186-188.its.utexas.edu) |
| 15:44.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Tinyboom_ (~nahh@c91FD653E.dhcp.bluecom.no) |
| 15:44.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (~Lunessa@WoWUIDev/Lunessa) |
| 15:44.40 | Lunessa | station |
| 15:45.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (n_a@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 15:46.14 | Fisker | yay |
| 15:46.19 | Fisker | i think i found the problem! |
| 15:47.14 | Ackis | your brain? |
| 15:48.08 | Fisker | nope |
| 15:48.13 | Fisker | and i didn't :( |
| 15:48.17 | Fisker | i bawd |
| 15:49.57 | *** join/#wowuidev akhe (~akhe@0x573fa156.ronqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 15:49.58 | Lopeppeppy | Heya, Lunessa! *pounce huggle of doooooom* |
| 15:51.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (~Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 15:51.25 | Lunessa | :D |
| 15:51.32 | Lunessa | I like enthusiastic greetings. |
| 15:55.39 | Ackis | my dog doesn't even get that excited to see me :( |
| 15:55.48 | *** join/#wowuidev [1]Archarodim (HydraIRC@lev92-4-88-164-134-95.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 15:55.49 | zenzelezz | no-one gets that excited to see you |
| 15:56.05 | cog|work | Bleh... there's only one person at work who isn't sick this morning... |
| 15:56.12 | cog|work | (and it's not me) |
| 16:01.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (n_a@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 16:01.41 | *** part/#wowuidev Kaso (~Kaso@89.240.5.140) |
| 16:02.26 | *** join/#wowuidev taroven|Rawr (~taroven|C@HW-ESR1-208-102-8-69.fuse.net) |
| 16:03.24 | Fisker | cog|work |
| 16:03.25 | Fisker | i love you |
| 16:03.41 | cog|work | :'( y? |
| 16:04.02 | cog|work | slaps Fisker around a bit with a used beta key |
| 16:04.12 | cog|work | 3 in fact |
| 16:05.33 | Lunessa | huggles his beta access. |
| 16:06.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Osagasu (~Creek@67-197-1-37.rh1.dyn.cm.comporium.net) |
| 16:07.44 | Fisker | noone wants your SC2 beta keys |
| 16:08.21 | Zyn | no one wants to give you cata beta keys |
| 16:08.56 | Fisker | there are no cataclysm beta keys |
| 16:08.58 | cog|work | slaps Fisker around a bit with a large beta-enabled account |
| 16:09.44 | Ackis | slaps Fisker around with a cog|work |
| 16:09.54 | Ackis | on a side note, I can no longer just type Fi for Fisker :( |
| 16:10.16 | Fisker | owned |
| 16:10.19 | Fisker | that |
| 16:10.19 | cog|work | ~poke fiphi & Fierceflame |
| 16:10.20 | purl | ACTION cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind fiphi & Fierceflame, pokes fiphi & Fierceflame repeatedly, hilarity ensues. |
| 16:10.23 | fiphi | Omeh. |
| 16:10.29 | Fisker | that's what you get for forcing me to not use `-FISKER_Q |
| 16:10.31 | fiphi | That's just not nice. |
| 16:10.35 | Fisker | that would've been only one tab |
| 16:10.39 | Fisker | `<tab> |
| 16:10.39 | Fisker | = win |
| 16:10.47 | fiphi | But the ` is an ass to write. |
| 16:10.53 | fiphi | How about |Fisker? |
| 16:10.56 | fiphi | Now that's classy. |
| 16:10.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (~Srosh@d056022.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 16:10.59 | Ackis | that's ok, becuase Fisker is an ass |
| 16:11.07 | fiphi | Ah, ok then. |
| 16:11.09 | fiphi | All setteld. |
| 16:11.11 | fiphi | *le |
| 16:11.13 | Fisker | ` is easy to write |
| 16:11.34 | fiphi | Shift + ´-button |
| 16:11.40 | cog|work | slaps Fisker around a bit with a large back-tick |
| 16:11.40 | Fisker | yep |
| 16:11.44 | fiphi | At least on Scandinavian keyboard. |
| 16:11.46 | fiphi | Too tricksy. |
| 16:12.03 | Fisker | it's like ctrl+alt+delete |
| 16:12.06 | Fisker | except it's awesome |
| 16:12.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (~Kaso@89.240.5.140) |
| 16:12.50 | *** join/#wowuidev robokitty (~robotusch@50A2E67F.flatrate.dk) |
| 16:13.55 | Fisker | hey robokitty |
| 16:15.21 | Lunessa | cog|work: I need a guild invite on my warlock tonight, can you do it? |
| 16:15.31 | cog|work | Lunessa: i defected |
| 16:15.44 | cog|work | Thunder_Child got a better name :> |
| 16:15.52 | Zyn | meanwhile, http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=13816838128&sid=1 |
| 16:16.03 | Lopeppeppy | Ouch! |
| 16:16.07 | Lunessa | ZOMG. What name? |
| 16:16.11 | cog|work | Secure Hookers |
| 16:16.17 | Lunessa | LAWL |
| 16:16.41 | cog|work | but the guild ui is disabled so i don't even know if i can invite |
| 16:16.54 | Lunessa | the slash commands still work. |
| 16:17.03 | cog|work | was it Thunder_Child? or was it someone else... i can't remember who was on that night |
| 16:17.20 | cog|work | seerah's there |
| 16:17.23 | cog|work | and shirik i think |
| 16:17.35 | Ackis | blizz forums suck |
| 16:17.38 | Kaso | that's a good guild name |
| 16:17.57 | Lunessa | No one is ever around. I spent /hours/ and /hours/ and not one person in guild was on. So ... When I get home... Invite MEH! |
| 16:18.36 | Ackis | I think I'm still banned |
| 16:18.41 | Ackis | from the blizz forums |
| 16:18.42 | Ackis | :P |
| 16:18.53 | Ackis | Zoot moved on before he could rectify the travesty |
| 16:19.20 | Lunessa | That's what happens when all you doo is make poop jokes. |
| 16:19.21 | Lopeppeppy | misses The Sprocket! |
| 16:19.27 | Ackis | me too |
| 16:19.48 | foxlit | Zyn: meanwhile, http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=13816838128&sid=1 << awesome |
| 16:21.49 | Jamash | man what |
| 16:21.55 | Jamash | real names on the blizzard forums? |
| 16:22.07 | foxlit | No more complaining about realid on blizzard forums :P |
| 16:22.15 | *** join/#wowuidev akhe (~akhe@0x573bb4a2.ronqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 16:22.17 | *** join/#wowuidev robokitty (~robotusch@50A2E67F.flatrate.dk) |
| 16:22.20 | foxlit | "Hey, I don't want my real name... oh, wait." |
| 16:22.30 | Jamash | this is the dumbest in a long series of dumb decisions |
| 16:22.42 | Fisker | cog|work |
| 16:22.46 | Fisker | invite me to the guild too |
| 16:22.55 | Lunessa | Is that EU only? |
| 16:22.58 | Jamash | I mean, how will I troll on my level 3 alt? |
| 16:23.06 | Jamash | us forums are maintenancing |
| 16:23.35 | Jamash | I think |
| 16:23.41 | Fisker | gay |
| 16:23.45 | amro | facebook proved that people are stupid even without anonymity |
| 16:23.53 | Lunessa | 'cause if that's going to be US too, I'm likely going to quit posting entirely. |
| 16:23.54 | Jamash | http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=25626109041 |
| 16:23.54 | amro | what's blizzard thinking? |
| 16:24.02 | Ackis | just bought the new Dragon Age DLC |
| 16:24.21 | foxlit | amro: facebook promises pseudo-anonymity. |
| 16:24.39 | Jamash | at least you can use a pseudonym on every other site on the internet |
| 16:24.57 | amro | foxlit: I'm talking about people I know irl who add me on facebook and proceed to be complete morons |
| 16:25.09 | foxlit | Yes, yes. And I'm saying that's different |
| 16:25.25 | foxlit | They're being stupid to people they know -- as opposed to being stupid to the entire world. |
| 16:25.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Thaoky (Thaoky@110.219-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 16:25.39 | Jamash | this is a bad idea |
| 16:25.50 | amro | you can't assume that foxlit |
| 16:26.02 | amro | they're being stupid because they are, in fact, stupid |
| 16:26.04 | amro | they just behave themselves irl |
| 16:26.12 | foxlit | Can't assume what, exactly? |
| 16:26.29 | amro | that they're only being stupid because it's limited to people they know |
| 16:26.57 | amro | espcially when they have 3,000 people on their friends list |
| 16:27.01 | Lunessa | Most people in here know my real name. But that's a FAR cry from everyone in UI & M knowing my real name. |
| 16:27.12 | Ackis | Lunessa == Bob |
| 16:27.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Satisfyme (5da2300a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.162.48.10) |
| 16:27.58 | Ackis | I gave up trying to hide my real name, and it's made me somewhat more accountable for what I say online |
| 16:28.03 | Fierceflame | Solution: Enter another name in battle.net |
| 16:28.04 | amro | my point is that blizzard's argument that real names == smarter posts is wrong |
| 16:28.05 | Jamash | his name is robert paulson |
| 16:28.22 | Maldivia | Lunessa: and what if all current posts will be converted? |
| 16:28.30 | Jamash | then they will be sued |
| 16:28.33 | amro | big time |
| 16:29.06 | Jamash | man and I thought realid was a bad idea already |
| 16:29.14 | Jamash | this makes it an order of magnitude worse |
| 16:29.27 | durcyn | so, even more not posting on blizzard forums for the intelligent and sane among us |
| 16:29.52 | Ackis | Good thing my lemonparty post was deleted |
| 16:29.56 | Jamash | I wouldn't mind if you had to post under a unified battle.net identifier, so you couldn't hide behind alts |
| 16:30.02 | Lunessa | Ackis: I'm very concerned about what I say, and I stand behind every word. However, considering the amount of abuse I've already taken on several occasions, and the fact that my stick thread has enough views to constitute a slot on a best-seller list, I'd be a little concerned that I'll never get any peace. |
| 16:30.03 | Jamash | but real names is terribad |
| 16:30.06 | amro | it's just stupid, regardless of post quality |
| 16:30.36 | durcyn | there are no quality posts on blizzard forums, quod erat demonstrandum. |
| 16:30.41 | amro | I predict stories of potential employers checking up on applicants |
| 16:30.43 | Ackis | Lunessa: oh I understand what you mean |
| 16:31.01 | *** join/#wowuidev SeanK (~SeanK@pool-98-117-120-73.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 16:31.51 | amro | oh well, stupid decisions are the pattern for the new battle.net |
| 16:32.09 | Jamash | this is *such a bad idea* |
| 16:32.20 | nicoli_s | whats going on now? |
| 16:32.29 | Lunessa | I mean, my LJ, and FB activity is all tied to my real name. But the audiences for those are pretty small. |
| 16:34.45 | Ackis | Lunessa: ever had addon fans find you on facebook? |
| 16:34.57 | Lunessa | Ackis, no. Not yet. |
| 16:35.01 | Maldivia | Lunessa: just change the name on your b.net account to Lun Essa ? :) |
| 16:35.01 | Ackis | I had one |
| 16:35.04 | Ackis | :( |
| 16:35.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Cide@hus110a.bobbnet.com) |
| 16:35.11 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 16:35.18 | Jamash | I use my real name on facebook |
| 16:35.39 | Jamash | but my profile is mostly private |
| 16:35.53 | Lunessa | Jamash: Same here. |
| 16:37.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (~xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 16:39.32 | Fisker | cog|work |
| 16:39.40 | Fisker | you must know who we contact for post wipes right? |
| 16:39.57 | Jamash | actually it wasn't |
| 16:40.01 | Jamash | now it is |
| 16:40.15 | Fisker | i don't use facebook |
| 16:40.19 | Jamash | my "non-friends" profile now has one pic and my gender on it |
| 16:41.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 16:41.22 | Jamash | Fiskerbook? |
| 16:41.26 | Jamash | no wait |
| 16:41.27 | Jamash | hatebok |
| 16:41.31 | Jamash | s/o/oo/ |
| 16:42.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@c-98-251-190-189.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 16:42.06 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 16:42.10 | Jamash | So yeah I predict nearly everyone changing the contact info in their battle.net profile to something fake |
| 16:42.43 | Fisker | you can't do that anyway |
| 16:43.13 | Ackis | You know, I was gonna make a funny using Lunessa's first name and cog|work's last name but it just didn't work out that way :( |
| 16:43.44 | Jamash | oh crap you can't can you |
| 16:43.49 | Jamash | I didn't realize it was grayed ot |
| 16:44.18 | Lopeppeppy | Dinos posting with our real first and last names? |
| 16:45.20 | Ackis | Lopeppeppy: blue's posting with their first and last names too! |
| 16:45.42 | fiphi | It's hell changing names. I legally changed my last name and called Blizz to change that. |
| 16:45.45 | fiphi | It was -hell-. |
| 16:45.50 | fiphi | Even though I had papers and ID's. |
| 16:46.02 | Kraps | what?! your name is not Lopep Peppy?! |
| 16:46.38 | Lopeppeppy | That just scares the living shit out of me, pardon my french. I deliberately don't play on the server I post as Peppy with, so that people would stop stalking me to my server. |
| 16:46.53 | Lopeppeppy | Yeah. This will take thinking. |
| 16:47.12 | Jamash | I am generally pretty blase about the stuff blizzard pulls |
| 16:47.18 | Jamash | armory didn't bother me |
| 16:47.23 | Jamash | this bothers me |
| 16:47.25 | Kraps | all they want o do is give you a hug |
| 16:47.37 | Jamash | a giant robot hug |
| 16:47.41 | Jamash | from the crushinator |
| 16:48.11 | Ackis | if you don't like it, vote with your dollars and cancel your account and move on |
| 16:48.20 | Ackis | that's what I did... except the move on part |
| 16:48.20 | Lopeppeppy | As I said, takes some thinking. |
| 16:48.27 | Ackis | mutters about staying in IRC |
| 16:48.58 | Ackis | ~lart nicoli_s |
| 16:48.58 | purl | dumps 42 tons of dirt, manure, and fish heads on nicoli_s |
| 16:50.41 | cog|work | 09:43 < Ackis> You know, I was gonna make a funny using Lunessa's first name and cog|work's last name but it just didn't work out that way :( |
| 16:50.42 | Jamash | yeah I just cancelled my recurring billing |
| 16:50.44 | cog|work | lulz |
| 16:50.46 | cog|work | try it the other way around :P |
| 16:50.58 | Ackis | cog|work: still doesn't work! :P |
| 16:51.04 | Jamash | and wrote "real id changes are unacceptable" in the comment field |
| 16:51.04 | cog|work | I KNO RITE?! |
| 16:51.09 | Ackis | totally!!!! |
| 16:51.21 | Jamash | of course it doesn't run out until september |
| 16:51.38 | cog|work | Ackis: maybe Shirik_ or tem would work :> |
| 16:51.57 | Fisker | cog|work |
| 16:52.05 | Fisker | how do i get postwiped? |
| 16:52.10 | Fisker | tell me your secrets |
| 16:52.13 | Dashkal | mutters something unplesant about Blizzard |
| 16:52.18 | Shirik_ | ? |
| 16:52.19 | Lopeppeppy | Get yourself banned, Fisker. |
| 16:52.25 | Fisker | naw |
| 16:52.27 | Fisker | that doesn't work |
| 16:52.34 | Ackis | Lopeppeppy: you don't get post wiped if you're banned |
| 16:52.39 | Ackis | I have experience in this area |
| 16:53.00 | Torhal | Ackis: Foof. |
| 16:53.05 | Fisker | only if you post so many levels of spam that they don't bother go through all your posts to find it |
| 16:53.08 | Ackis | hai Torhal |
| 16:53.16 | Torhal | Sleeping for 18 hours is a pain in the arse. |
| 16:53.23 | Satisfyme | hmm how do I get the value typen in a editbox in the lua file?? I mean what extension do I need for that, like: MyEditBox.value |
| 16:53.42 | Ackis | gave you a pain in the arse while you were sleeping for 18 hours |
| 16:53.45 | Torhal | Going to bed at 6:30pm and waking up at 12:45pm is just wrong. |
| 16:54.15 | cog|work | Satisfyme: http://wowprogramming.com/docs/widgets/EditBox |
| 16:54.15 | Torhal | shin-kicks Ackis. |
| 16:54.26 | cog|work | Satisfyme: probably after :GetText |
| 16:55.50 | Shirik_ | :( |
| 16:55.56 | batrick | hai Shirik_ |
| 16:55.57 | Shirik_ | just found some code written `delete this;` |
| 16:56.12 | Jamash | you had better delete it then |
| 16:56.12 | batrick | owned |
| 16:56.29 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 16:56.39 | Fisker | fix my windows using up a lot of kernel time on bugger all |
| 16:57.11 | Jamash | uninstall your sony rootkit |
| 16:57.34 | Lopeppeppy | All along everyone's been saying Real ID was okay, we'd never be forced to share our real names with anyone we didn't want to. *sigh* |
| 16:57.58 | Fisker | you're not forced now either, just stop using the forums! |
| 16:58.05 | Jamash | I will |
| 16:58.06 | Fisker | Cataclysm launch: Player names are now real life names |
| 16:58.10 | Fisker | you're not forced now either, just stop using the game! |
| 16:58.15 | Jamash | I will then too |
| 16:58.17 | Dashkal | One thing I'm not clear on: Are existing posts going to suddenly show real names? |
| 16:58.31 | Fisker | Post-Cataclysm: Google Maps integration! |
| 16:58.42 | Fisker | Dashkal i don't think so |
| 16:59.05 | Dashkal | good. Still. come faster SW:TOR please |
| 17:00.02 | Fisker | atleast i think they would be better of changing their terms of use first |
| 17:00.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Proditor (~Proditor@c80-217-71-99.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 17:00.17 | Fisker | and even when they do that, i don't think they can just make it apply to all previous posts |
| 17:00.25 | Lunessa | Dashkal: The press release doesn't say. |
| 17:00.42 | Fisker | also when they changed forums the last time it was postwiped anyway |
| 17:01.42 | Dashkal | I have no faith in blizzard not to retroactively do things. |
| 17:02.12 | Fisker | Dashkal |
| 17:02.31 | Fisker | do you think i'll be banned if i started a post with "First they came for our lunch money with their pets..." |
| 17:02.41 | Torhal | Heh |
| 17:05.45 | Fisker | atleast we can stalk Lopeppeppy and Cairenn|afk |
| 17:05.55 | Fisker | no restraining orders on facebook |
| 17:06.24 | Cairenn|afk | Fisker: be careful the things you joke about, some people will take you seriously and get very upset |
| 17:07.15 | Fisker | :( |
| 17:07.31 | batrick | shirik never says hi back anymore |
| 17:07.36 | batrick | guess we're no longer friends |
| 17:07.40 | Fisker | on the bright side, Cairenn|afk is the only one who takes me seriously |
| 17:07.41 | Fisker | :P |
| 17:07.46 | Fisker | yeah batrick |
| 17:07.49 | Fisker | Shirik is a jerk like that |
| 17:07.52 | Ackis | batrick: that's a good thing tho? |
| 17:07.53 | nevcairiel | Don't worry, when Fisker does really bad things, we'll just drive to DK and make sure he stays out of your business |
| 17:07.55 | eidolarr | everyone wants to be a social network these days |
| 17:07.58 | eidolarr | even my mom |
| 17:08.19 | batrick | because mothers aren't human |
| 17:08.31 | batrick | (</sarcasm>) |
| 17:08.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Eluna (~Eluna@85.196.121.142) |
| 17:08.49 | Jamash | moms are the original social networks |
| 17:08.49 | Fisker | i can't even begin to imagine how annoying it will be for women to be harassed on the wow forums when the real id change goes live |
| 17:08.57 | Jamash | facebook is a pale imitation |
| 17:09.12 | Cairenn|afk | Fisker: unfortunately, too true |
| 17:09.16 | Ackis | you could have a "guys" name like Ryan or Kelly :P |
| 17:09.23 | nevcairiel | Somehow i don't think it would actually happen on the forums |
| 17:09.29 | amro | Ackis: most trolls will take their chances |
| 17:09.43 | nevcairiel | but some silly people would certainly pester you on your realm, because there they still live behind their alias |
| 17:09.52 | Dashkal | Nah, that'll get them forum banned. So they'll roll level 1 alts and harass in tells. |
| 17:09.56 | Dashkal | too slow |
| 17:10.07 | Jamash | my family have a very unusual name |
| 17:10.15 | Jamash | we're the first hit on google for our respective names |
| 17:10.25 | Eluna | Fisker: Women on the internet? |
| 17:10.27 | Jamash | so, anyone who wants can find us |
| 17:10.32 | Eluna | We all know this to be a lie. |
| 17:10.34 | Dashkal | My last name goes back a whopping two generations |
| 17:11.16 | Jamash | Dashkal: Immigration botch-up? |
| 17:11.17 | Lunessa | Actually, Googling me gets LOTS of hits. Mostly for a fictional character with my name. |
| 17:11.24 | Lopeppeppy | I've already dealt with realm-harassment as a dino, it's pretty hateful. |
| 17:11.36 | Eluna | Googling me gets lots of strange shit.. |
| 17:11.51 | Dashkal | Jamash: Intentional name-change on immigration |
| 17:11.57 | Lopeppeppy | I don't want to be google-able. |
| 17:11.58 | Jamash | ah |
| 17:12.00 | Dashkal | Bonus: I'm not blood related to the guy who did it |
| 17:12.00 | Seerah | Ackis: are you saying I'll be a lucky one? :p |
| 17:12.54 | Cairenn|afk | , unfortunately, had to give up hiding her real identity a few years ago |
| 17:13.18 | Ackis | Seerah: I wasn't implying anything :D |
| 17:13.19 | Lunessa | Seerah: It'll be like winning a lottery where the first prize is a mountain of shit. |
| 17:13.25 | Ackis | still believes Seerah is a man! |
| 17:13.29 | Ackis | kekeke |
| 17:13.37 | Lunessa | she is /so/ not a man. |
| 17:13.49 | Cairenn|afk | hell no, she's a pixie! |
| 17:14.09 | Eluna | Hahahahhaa, hilarious. I was flying over the great devide in barrens, and I dismounted out of nowhere... :P |
| 17:14.11 | Seerah | is reading that EU forums post |
| 17:15.17 | Cide | quick solution, don't post :) |
| 17:15.43 | Cide | I can see it being problematic for some but the overall benefits outweigh the disadvantages |
| 17:16.34 | Jamash | Overall benefits being...? |
| 17:16.42 | Jamash | nobody will post anymore? |
| 17:16.43 | Cide | less trolling, no fake accounts |
| 17:16.43 | amro | none whatsoever |
| 17:16.47 | eidolarr | hopefully civility, but why can't you just use a fake name? |
| 17:16.51 | Jamash | forums will be a ghost town |
| 17:16.56 | Cide | no they won't |
| 17:17.00 | Jamash | everyone is going to move to unofficial forums |
| 17:17.02 | Cide | I will post all the time |
| 17:17.07 | Cide | maybe you will |
| 17:17.09 | malreth | i agree with Cide. most people won't care |
| 17:17.11 | Jamash | ok, a ghost town with you and ghostcrawler |
| 17:17.12 | Cide | 75% won't care |
| 17:17.20 | Jamash | what's your real name, cide? |
| 17:17.24 | Cide | André Eriksson |
| 17:17.33 | Cide | also in my whois |
| 17:17.42 | Cide | oh I guess I only put in my first name on this computer |
| 17:17.50 | amro | now I know where you live |
| 17:17.58 | amro | see, that scared him. |
| 17:18.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Cide@hus110a.bobbnet.com) |
| 17:18.09 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 17:18.12 | nevcairiel | unofficial forums won't have blue, so people might go there for idle-chit-chat, but when they actually want to talk to a blue (like everyone seems to want to), they still have to use official forums |
| 17:18.13 | Cide | fixed |
| 17:18.20 | eidolarr | I can't think of any other community like what they are building; at the very least they are dropping a bomb on the community as we know it |
| 17:18.21 | nevcairiel | don't think unofficial will be big |
| 17:18.21 | Lunessa | Cide is not afraid of anyone. |
| 17:18.27 | Cide | that's right |
| 17:18.41 | Cide | all the better for my career if I'm easily googleable |
| 17:18.52 | Ackis | googles you ALL NIGHT LONG |
| 17:18.56 | Cide | because I don't do stupid shit (tm). |
| 17:19.02 | Xinhuan | well, heh |
| 17:19.03 | eidolarr | yeah but not for seducing women |
| 17:19.13 | Cide | is that your concern? |
| 17:19.19 | Xinhuan | all my addons have my name and email plastered over it anyway |
| 17:19.20 | Cide | then you shouldn't be posting on the wow forums anyway |
| 17:19.28 | Xinhuan | so no real difference to me i guess |
| 17:19.42 | amro | my concern is that battle.net is not at all what I thought it would be |
| 17:19.45 | nevcairiel | If a woman rejects you because she googled you and found you in some wow-related contex .. well, let her go :p |
| 17:19.56 | Lunessa | I don't either - much - but still, I'm more concerned about the way my posts will give everyone my name. I'd prefer not to have my name splashed all over the forums. |
| 17:19.58 | Lopeppeppy | Cide, I don't have to do anything stupid. Just posting makes me searchable and that's not always a good thing. Other people do very stupid things with information. |
| 17:20.31 | Jamash | there has already been one minor incident involving friend of friend |
| 17:20.37 | eidolarr | I am also sort of concerned for younger players who post stupid things, I would rather they troll anonymously than troll and have it interfere with like a job app in a few years |
| 17:20.40 | Jamash | which you can't turn off |
| 17:20.55 | Seerah | and minors with their own accounts |
| 17:20.56 | Jamash | you friend someone you trust, *they* friend someone you don't trust, bam, someone you don't trust has your name |
| 17:21.00 | amro | there doesn't even have to be a reason |
| 17:21.09 | nevcairiel | I bet parental control can turn forum access off |
| 17:21.16 | Jamash | it'll have to |
| 17:21.16 | amro | you can use a pseudonym everywhere on the internet |
| 17:21.41 | amro | I'm certainly not going to make an exception for an activision product |
| 17:21.51 | eidolarr | I don't even mean young kids, I mean like 17 year olds |
| 17:21.53 | Ackis | Fisker: If we went to a costume party as Batman and Robin I would go as Robin, that's how much you mean to me. |
| 17:22.22 | Fisker | i will fuck you up |
| 17:22.26 | Cide | amro, blizzard product |
| 17:22.35 | Cide | but feel free to not post on the forums |
| 17:22.37 | amro | I don't buy it for a second |
| 17:22.50 | Cide | buy what? |
| 17:22.56 | amro | that it's a "blizzard product" |
| 17:23.01 | amro | activision wants battle.net |
| 17:23.23 | eidolarr | I've heard stories about kids getting turned away from job offers because they asked dumb questions in recorded lectures |
| 17:23.42 | Jamash | you cannot currently configure forum access via parental controls |
| 17:24.33 | amro | Cide: I don't even post to begin with, but if they're making stupid decisions like this I'm not inclined to trust them |
| 17:24.33 | Cide | so what's with all the people bitching about activision? |
| 17:24.33 | Cide | nobody complained that vivendi was pulling strings before |
| 17:24.33 | Cide | idiots I tell you |
| 17:24.33 | Jamash | activision has made a number of really stupid decisions and their ceo has made a number of really stupid statements |
| 17:24.40 | Cide | how do you even know what decisions activision has made regarding blizzard? |
| 17:24.46 | eidolarr | people hate bobby kotick |
| 17:24.48 | Cide | oh that's right |
| 17:24.49 | eidolarr | that's 90% of it |
| 17:24.53 | Cide | you don't |
| 17:24.58 | amro | I never said I do |
| 17:25.05 | Cide | <Jamash> activision has made a number of really stupid decisions |
| 17:25.15 | Jamash | I didn't say regarding blizzard |
| 17:25.20 | amro | you're the one who added regarding blizzard |
| 17:25.23 | Cide | then why bring it up in a discussion regarding blizzard? |
| 17:25.25 | Jamash | I mean they've done stupid stuff |
| 17:25.29 | Jamash | you brought activision up |
| 17:25.30 | Cide | I assumed that was the case; if it wasn't then it's irrelevant |
| 17:25.32 | amro | because they merged with blizzard |
| 17:25.36 | Cide | no I didn't |
| 17:25.38 | Fisker | they didn't |
| 17:25.40 | Cide | <amro> that it's a "blizzard product" |
| 17:25.40 | Cide | <amro> activision wants battle.net |
| 17:25.46 | Fisker | Vivendi merged with Activision |
| 17:25.50 | Jamash | you said "Cide> so what's with all the people bitching about activision?" |
| 17:25.56 | Fisker | technically speaking Vivendi are calling the shots as they are the major stockholder |
| 17:25.59 | Cide | <amro> that it's a "blizzard product" |
| 17:25.59 | Cide | <amro> activision wants battle.net |
| 17:26.06 | amro | stop spamming |
| 17:26.15 | Cide | Jamash, if you're going to participate, at least do the other half of conversating besides typing shit |
| 17:26.29 | Fisker | In the grand scope of things i don't think Bobby Kotick is anything else but someone following orders, he definitely know how to be a douchebag, but he's being encouraged to do it |
| 17:27.18 | Jamash | Cide, knock it off |
| 17:27.29 | Cide | knock what off? |
| 17:27.37 | Jamash | you asked a question, I answered it, you started getting picky picky picky picky |
| 17:27.42 | Fisker | anyway 100% confirmed that our posts atleast won't be converted |
| 17:27.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Satisfyme (5da2300a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.162.48.10) |
| 17:27.48 | eidolarr | well, I will say this: Blizzard as I know it has very carefully introduced changes, they know how to pace things slowly enough that they can test the waters |
| 17:28.01 | eidolarr | these huge revolutionary changes all at once seem... uncharacteristic |
| 17:28.02 | Lopeppeppy | fsiker, linkie? |
| 17:28.06 | Cide | Jamash, if you can't read or state obvious incorrect statements I'll call you out on it |
| 17:28.10 | Lopeppeppy | Whew. Typos! Fisker, do you have a link? |
| 17:28.11 | Cide | and regardless |
| 17:28.19 | Cide | this discussion is all about how activision influences blizzard |
| 17:28.20 | Fisker | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25712374700&sid=1&pageNo=34#667 |
| 17:28.25 | Jamash | no it isn't |
| 17:28.27 | amro | Cide: no |
| 17:28.29 | Jamash | you've decided that it is |
| 17:28.31 | amro | you assumed my point |
| 17:28.42 | Cide | whether or not they make stupid decisions in general, which I don't doubt for a second, is not relevant to that subject |
| 17:28.59 | amro | okay now you're having a conversation with yourself |
| 17:29.03 | Jamash | ^ |
| 17:29.04 | Cide | <amro> I'm certainly not going to make an exception for an activision product <Cide> amro, blizzard product <amro> I don't buy it for a second |
| 17:29.07 | Cide | <amro> that it's a "blizzard product" <amro> activision wants battle.net |
| 17:29.15 | Jamash | does irc have /ignore? |
| 17:29.17 | Jamash | let's find out |
| 17:29.19 | Lopeppeppy | Thank you, Fisker. |
| 17:29.22 | Cide | unless I'm retarded that states that the recent changes are, at least to an extent, activision's doing |
| 17:29.28 | Jamash | turns out it does |
| 17:29.30 | amro | Cide: no |
| 17:29.35 | Cide | explain how it's not? |
| 17:29.39 | amro | I said it WANTS battle.net |
| 17:29.40 | amro | as in |
| 17:29.42 | amro | soon enough |
| 17:29.53 | amro | battle.net will have more activision games than blizzard games |
| 17:29.54 | Lunessa | "All posts in the future on the new forum systems will be an opt-in choice and ample warning will be given that you're posting with your real first and last name. " |
| 17:29.58 | amro | you never let me finish |
| 17:30.07 | Cide | do you have even the slightest hint to back that up? |
| 17:30.10 | Jamash | man I hope not |
| 17:30.18 | Cide | you had plenty of time to finish in any case |
| 17:30.21 | Jamash | keep modern warfare off my bnet thx |
| 17:30.21 | Cairenn|afk | Dial it back guys |
| 17:30.23 | amro | activision wants to expand their pc gaming |
| 17:30.49 | amro | put 2 and 2 together |
| 17:30.54 | Fisker | omg |
| 17:31.07 | Fisker | this mvp is losing his MVP status in 5...4..3...2....1 |
| 17:31.14 | nevcairiel | who? |
| 17:31.14 | Fisker | http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=13816838128&postId=138154572401&sid=1#241 |
| 17:31.23 | Fisker | I wonder if Blizzard has learned nothing from all the problems Facebook got when they suddenly introduced 'new features' and completely changed their privacy regulations. |
| 17:31.23 | Fisker | I support Blizzard on a hell of a lot of things, but this is something I will never support. It's the most stupid idea I've ever read and quite frankly Blizzard, I'm deeply disappointed. |
| 17:31.30 | Cide | amro, that's a quite far-fetched conclusion |
| 17:31.42 | Fisker | Wasn't that basically the same reason cog|work was demoted in his time? |
| 17:31.46 | amro | Cide: you're free to think so |
| 17:31.46 | DWSR | Fisker |
| 17:31.47 | Cide | the result isn't extremey unlikely, perhaps they do want that, but you have absolutely nothing to back it up |
| 17:31.48 | Fisker | because he didn't like the addon policy |
| 17:31.50 | DWSR | urbad. |
| 17:31.58 | amro | Cide: I don't need to back it up, this is not a court case |
| 17:32.05 | nevcairiel | he kinda went overboard with his statements, though |
| 17:32.07 | Cide | no, but it's a discussion |
| 17:32.08 | Jamash | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25712374700&sid=1&pageNo=32 |
| 17:32.11 | nevcairiel | but could still get that guy demoted |
| 17:32.16 | Jamash | two mvps |
| 17:32.22 | Cide | it's considered good form |
| 17:32.37 | NightHawkTheSane | amro: spouting unfounded nonsense makes you look like an idiot in any setting. |
| 17:32.45 | amro | unfounded nonsense? |
| 17:32.49 | Cide | hey guys |
| 17:32.49 | amro | sigh |
| 17:32.54 | amro | so |
| 17:32.54 | Cide | valve is going to buy blizzard |
| 17:32.56 | NightHawkTheSane | (didn'tm ean that as you specifically, just the general you) |
| 17:32.58 | Cide | they both make pc games |
| 17:33.06 | amro | activision wants to expand their pc gaming |
| 17:33.12 | Cide | so does valve I'm sure |
| 17:33.22 | nevcairiel | so does EA |
| 17:33.28 | Jamash | Cide, Activision and Blizzard are already the same company |
| 17:33.28 | amro | valve never merged with vivendi |
| 17:33.30 | amro | stop being silly |
| 17:33.37 | amro | thank you Jamash |
| 17:33.40 | Cide | EA is going to buy valve in order to put all their games on steam for free |
| 17:33.41 | nevcairiel | Blizzard is blizzard |
| 17:33.51 | nevcairiel | activision just stole their name after they merged with vivendi |
| 17:33.55 | NightHawkTheSane | any company that currently has a stake in PC gaming wants to expand their PC gaming market. this is called businses. |
| 17:33.58 | NightHawkTheSane | business* |
| 17:34.05 | nevcairiel | but its still their own company |
| 17:34.09 | *** join/#wowuidev joekin9 (~joekin9@cpe-174-096-143-194.carolina.res.rr.com) |
| 17:34.13 | amro | NightHawkTheSane: indeed, and if said company owned battle.net, wouldn't you think they'd want to use it? |
| 17:34.28 | Jamash | I can't imagine that Activision isn't drooling over Blizzard's technology and customer base |
| 17:34.39 | Cide | they own all of blizzard |
| 17:34.42 | NightHawkTheSane | amro: maybe, but i bet lots of people would like to use battle.net, it doesn't mean they can. |
| 17:34.43 | amro | seriously, I can't believe I'mg etting trolled here |
| 17:34.45 | NightHawkTheSane | or will. |
| 17:34.51 | amro | activision can |
| 17:34.52 | Cide | but I haven't seen any CoD ads inside WoW |
| 17:34.53 | Jamash | The only question is whether Blizzard's management is able to resist the pressure |
| 17:34.58 | nevcairiel | Do they actually own them? Did vivendi own blizzard? |
| 17:34.59 | amro | and it's not completely unfounded to think that they will |
| 17:35.04 | amro | yes nevcairiel |
| 17:35.09 | Cide | you have no idea if there is any pressure |
| 17:35.10 | NightHawkTheSane | activision really can't use battle.net any more than any other company can. |
| 17:35.16 | amro | I never said there was any pressure |
| 17:35.18 | NightHawkTheSane | they'd hve to get blizzard to agree with it |
| 17:35.24 | Cide | and I never said youdid |
| 17:35.35 | amro | of course, but they're in a better position than anyone else to ask for access to battle.net |
| 17:35.36 | Cide | stop being so defensive |
| 17:35.47 | nevcairiel | If they have to get blizzard to agree, it doesnt sounds like they own them |
| 17:35.53 | DWSR | ^ |
| 17:35.59 | nevcairiel | If i own a company, i just tell them to do |
| 17:35.59 | Ackis | pauses IRC... out of popcorn |
| 17:35.59 | NightHawkTheSane | sure, they might be in a goood position |
| 17:36.05 | NightHawkTheSane | but that doesn't make blizzard more likely to agree. |
| 17:36.15 | amro | it doesn't mean that my claims are completely unfounded either |
| 17:36.22 | amro | or that I don't have anything to back it up |
| 17:36.28 | NightHawkTheSane | but you don't |
| 17:36.37 | Jamash | sorry to interject with facts, but Activision Blizzard is actually a holding company that owns both Activision and Blizzard |
| 17:36.37 | Cide | your claims are completely speculation |
| 17:36.44 | NightHawkTheSane | you've pieced together a few facts to make generally specious claims with no bearing on reality |
| 17:36.52 | Jamash | so they are owned by the same company, but are not the same company |
| 17:37.12 | amro | yes, but I'm pieceing together facts |
| 17:37.15 | amro | not imagination |
| 17:37.20 | NightHawkTheSane | By the same logic, I could say that sony would LOVE steamworks, and since valve is bringing steamworks to the psn, sony is going to buy valve |
| 17:37.23 | amro | if you don't agree with my conclusions, that's totally fine |
| 17:37.23 | Cide | you are linking together unrelated facts |
| 17:37.28 | amro | not at all NightHawkTheSane |
| 17:37.31 | Cide | they aren't conclusions |
| 17:37.50 | amro | wow |
| 17:37.58 | amro | I'm gonna stop here |
| 17:38.03 | amro | I really don't appreciate the aggresivity Cide |
| 17:38.04 | Cide | good |
| 17:38.09 | eidolarr | aggression |
| 17:38.10 | eidolarr | :P |
| 17:38.14 | Cide | I'm an aggressive person :) |
| 17:38.17 | DWSR | ^ |
| 17:38.21 | NightHawkTheSane | you really are just piecing together vaguely related facts and building your own story around them. |
| 17:38.42 | Cide | and I think people overreact way too much about activision influencing blizzard |
| 17:38.51 | amro | NightHawkTheSane: it's not my problem if you disagree |
| 17:39.01 | joekin9 | anyone wanna start a new char send a private chat |
| 17:39.02 | eidolarr | yeah, but nevertheless I don't think you have to be too imaginative to consider Activision wanting more control over Blizzard |
| 17:39.02 | NightHawkTheSane | unless there's some decent evidence that directly connects the pieces in that manner, the argument is entirely specious. |
| 17:39.15 | amro | NightHawkTheSane: I don't really care, I'm not trying to convince anyone her |
| 17:39.21 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: sure, it's not a far-fetched story, but it IS a story. |
| 17:39.28 | nevcairiel | eidolarr: wanting sure, getting .. not much likely |
| 17:39.28 | amro | I just said what I think, and all of a sudden you're eating me up |
| 17:39.34 | Cide | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activision_Blizzard |
| 17:39.35 | eidolarr | amro isn't selling it as such |
| 17:39.37 | amro | it's waay too histile ni here |
| 17:39.39 | Cide | "Activision and Blizzard Entertainment still exist as separate entities" |
| 17:39.41 | amro | hostile* |
| 17:39.48 | Cide | "While Blizzard retained its autonomy and corporate leadership, other Vivendi Games divisions did not." |
| 17:40.07 | *** part/#wowuidev joekin9 (~joekin9@cpe-174-096-143-194.carolina.res.rr.com) |
| 17:40.15 | Cide | One of the intriguing things about the old Vivendi structure was that, even when Martin Tremblay joined to run Vivendi's publishing, it was specified: "World Of Warcraft creator Blizzard Entertainment has been designated a stand-alone division reporting to VU Games' CEO, and is not part of Tremblay's product development mandate." |
| 17:40.15 | Jamash | I mentioned that already |
| 17:40.25 | amro | what's your point Cide? |
| 17:40.35 | Cide | it does not even report to activision. |
| 17:40.38 | nevcairiel | His point is that Blizzard is self-managing |
| 17:40.45 | Cide | Blizzard Entertainment has been designated a stand-alone division |
| 17:40.56 | Cide | Mike Morhaime will continue to serve as President and Chief Executive Officer of Blizzard Entertainment, and no explicit reporting structure is even discussed in the release |
| 17:40.58 | amro | okay, so? |
| 17:41.06 | Cide | so your argument is flawed |
| 17:41.13 | amro | no, that was not a part of my argument at all |
| 17:41.22 | amro | you redefined my argument, making assumptions a long the way |
| 17:41.26 | amro | and disproved it |
| 17:41.27 | Cide | no I did not |
| 17:41.40 | amro | okay, apparently now you know my point better than I do |
| 17:41.45 | NightHawkTheSane | so, am i right in assumign this all sprung from some nerd rage over realid nonsense? |
| 17:41.52 | Cide | <amro> soon enough |
| 17:41.52 | Cide | <amro> battle.net will have more activision games than blizzard games |
| 17:41.57 | amro | I'm gonna go drink some tea, you keep doing both sides of the conversation |
| 17:42.00 | Cide | I know what you wrote |
| 17:42.09 | Cide | if you disagree with your own statements then I admit that you're right |
| 17:42.12 | amro | and you assumed I meant activision was going to order blizzard around |
| 17:42.17 | Cide | no |
| 17:42.27 | Cide | I assumed you meant that activision is going to use battle.net |
| 17:42.36 | DWSR | AHEM. |
| 17:42.38 | Cide | whereas they are completely separate |
| 17:42.43 | Cide | as the above quote shows |
| 17:42.43 | amro | I clearly stated that they probably want to |
| 17:42.45 | DWSR | RAGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE |
| 17:42.50 | amro | and proceeded to state what things would be like if that did happen |
| 17:43.07 | Cide | you laid out pretty clearly that you think it is going to happen |
| 17:43.20 | amro | yes, I do, but I don't expect you to agree with that |
| 17:43.23 | nevcairiel | Of course they want to, everyone in their clear mind would want control over blizzard |
| 17:43.23 | Jamash | So, who wants to talk about something other than blizzactivision |
| 17:43.27 | amro | do I have to justify everything to you Cide? |
| 17:43.34 | Cide | preferably, yes |
| 17:43.37 | eidolarr | christ guys, he gave his conclusion that isn't too too crazy given the facts |
| 17:43.39 | Jamash | in triplicate |
| 17:43.42 | DWSR | http://n0shit.ytmnd.com/ |
| 17:43.46 | Jamash | signed in blood |
| 17:43.46 | Cide | eidolarr, yes it is |
| 17:43.49 | DWSR | (nsfw). |
| 17:43.50 | eidolarr | he was a little overambitious and said it like it was a fact, it's the internet, it happens |
| 17:43.59 | Cide | I just pasted why it is completely crazy |
| 17:44.00 | eidolarr | can we move on already |
| 17:44.05 | Cide | activision has no bearing at all on blizzard |
| 17:44.19 | Cide | hence completely unfounded, re: NightHawkTheSane |
| 17:44.37 | Lopeppeppy | I prefer pie over cake, 2:1. |
| 17:44.40 | eidolarr | fine, you win |
| 17:44.44 | DWSR | http://sonicmichael.ytmnd.com/ |
| 17:44.49 | Jamash | thing about pie is it's easier and cheaper |
| 17:44.58 | Cide | eidolarr, thank you |
| 17:45.04 | amro | ~Cide-- |
| 17:45.06 | amro | oh |
| 17:45.06 | Cide | now we may return to bitching about battle.net real id |
| 17:45.10 | Cide | that's mean |
| 17:45.12 | Cide | I was at 10 |
| 17:45.12 | amro | no |
| 17:45.22 | Cide | ~karma Cide |
| 17:45.22 | purl | cide has karma of 10 |
| 17:45.24 | NightHawkTheSane | ~Cide++ |
| 17:45.25 | Cide | oh I guess I still am |
| 17:45.27 | amro | I'm taking back the points I gave you back when I thought you were reasonable |
| 17:45.29 | Cide | that's fine then |
| 17:45.31 | Jamash | ~Cide-- |
| 17:45.37 | Cide | this is going to prove interesting |
| 17:45.38 | Cide | keep it up, guys |
| 17:45.40 | Jamash | I'm done |
| 17:45.41 | DWSR | karmawars |
| 17:45.42 | eidolarr | lol |
| 17:45.44 | DWSR | ~Cide++ |
| 17:45.48 | Jamash | ~amro++ |
| 17:45.51 | DWSR | ~NightHawktheSane++ |
| 17:46.04 | Cide | no more allies for me? |
| 17:46.11 | Cide | amro, oh I am reasonable |
| 17:46.23 | Cide | you may disagree but that's your opinion ;) |
| 17:46.35 | DWSR | http://nigflip.ytmnd.com/ (super nsfw), WHAT THE FUCK?!? |
| 17:46.35 | eidolarr | oh god please don't start it up again |
| 17:46.47 | DWSR | I need to learn how to do that. |
| 17:47.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (~Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 17:47.25 | Jamash | man |
| 17:47.36 | Jamash | great musi |
| 17:47.38 | Jamash | c |
| 17:47.46 | Jamash | I need to buy the soundtrack |
| 17:47.55 | Ackis | I heard Adys is all for Real ID! |
| 17:48.31 | Jamash | I heard realid eats babies |
| 17:48.56 | Cide | so let's see |
| 17:48.58 | Cide | ~karma Cide |
| 17:48.58 | purl | cide has karma of 11 |
| 17:48.58 | eidolarr | I don't think it would be so bad if it was gradual |
| 17:49.01 | Adys | ~cide++ |
| 17:49.03 | Cide | oh, +-0 |
| 17:49.05 | Cide | oh sweet |
| 17:49.09 | Adys | ~cide-- |
| 17:49.11 | eidolarr | they are making a huge leap though |
| 17:49.12 | Cide | bitch |
| 17:49.20 | Cide | yeah |
| 17:49.24 | Cide | /shrug |
| 17:49.24 | Ackis | ~karma Cide |
| 17:49.24 | purl | cide has karma of 11 |
| 17:49.27 | Cide | doesn't bother me |
| 17:49.41 | eidolarr | and effectively destroying the community they've built so far |
| 17:49.55 | DWSR | Have you /seen/ the forums? |
| 17:50.11 | eidolarr | yeah |
| 17:50.12 | Cide | you want to destroy that community |
| 17:50.17 | Adys | Im pretty sure either the change wont go live or will be optional |
| 17:50.22 | eidolarr | maybe not so much |
| 17:50.23 | Cide | nah |
| 17:50.36 | Jamash | the seething morass that is the wow forums could probably be improved in a number of technical ways |
| 17:50.43 | eidolarr | it's extremely unlikely that they throw away all their work and repeal it |
| 17:50.46 | Jamash | exposing every poster's real name is not one of those ways |
| 17:51.13 | eidolarr | There is too much trolling but scorched earth is supposed to be the last resort |
| 17:51.14 | Fisker | btw |
| 17:51.20 | Fisker | i just pwnt someone playing the troll card |
| 17:51.26 | NightHawkTheSane | i dont know, what's the worst case.. the people who leave are the trolls and jerks who don't actually contribute, and the cowards who don't feel like actually defending what they say. |
| 17:51.44 | Fisker | If we assume that your real name will not be used maliciously by third party entities then this changes nothing |
| 17:51.53 | Adys | So |
| 17:51.57 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: it's not that black and white... a lot of people don't like the idea of exposing their real names, or are afraid of doing so because they don't know the net that well |
| 17:51.58 | DWSR | I'm with NHTS |
| 17:52.02 | eidolarr | a lot of otherwise cool people |
| 17:52.10 | Adys | who here thinks activision is behind the realid push? |
| 17:52.15 | eidolarr | please no |
| 17:52.16 | Xinhuan | it causes issues for some people, particularly females probably |
| 17:52.17 | eidolarr | PLEASE |
| 17:52.21 | Fisker | beginning to doubt it Adys |
| 17:52.30 | Fisker | activision is all about making money |
| 17:52.35 | eidolarr | please i beg you |
| 17:52.36 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: Yeah, i undrstand that, but we're reaching a point (globally, not specific to wow/blizzard) where that kind of anonymity is close to unreasonable, and maybe even unjustified. |
| 17:52.42 | Shadowed | Adys what license is the tooltip stuff under again, MIT you said? |
| 17:52.44 | Jamash | NHTS: wat |
| 17:52.47 | Adys | Shadowed: yes |
| 17:52.49 | Shadowed | kk |
| 17:52.55 | Jamash | anonymity is unreasonable? |
| 17:53.08 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: not really, only facebook and now battle.net, the overwhelming majority of communities are still anonymous |
| 17:53.15 | Shadowed | Yes and no NightHawkTheSane |
| 17:53.20 | Adys | uh |
| 17:53.26 | Ackis | I think Blizzard should just scrap the RealID on the forums and give us something to really judge people by on the forums. GearScore. |
| 17:53.31 | NightHawkTheSane | there's a lot of things you can't do in real life anonymously. why should the internet be so different? |
| 17:53.34 | Shadowed | The idea of anonymity is certainly less anonymous compared to 5-10 years ago |
| 17:53.36 | Jamash | ~Ackis++ |
| 17:53.40 | Shadowed | Because the internet was built on that? |
| 17:53.43 | Adys | ~ackis++ |
| 17:53.48 | Cide | ~ackis-- |
| 17:53.50 | Cide | GEAR SCORE SUCKS |
| 17:53.53 | Ackis | lol |
| 17:53.54 | Adys | ~ackis++ |
| 17:53.55 | NightHawkTheSane | Shadowed: sure, years ago, it's changing. |
| 17:54.05 | Seerah | search back through my posts, and you'll find side references to myself being female, being a teacher, etc. If some random person whom I don't trust has my name, they can google me. Find out where I work. Where I live. etc. |
| 17:54.06 | Shadowed | I don't mind RealID in-game, but enforcing it on the forums is stupid |
| 17:54.16 | NightHawkTheSane | Shadowed: And i think trying to stop that change is fighting a too powerful tide. |
| 17:54.17 | Cide | the silly will be when joedisphit realizes the blood elf he's been "banging" in rfc is a guy |
| 17:54.21 | Ackis | Seerah: I was planning on doing that myself |
| 17:54.29 | eidolarr | I think you are vastly overestimating the strength of this 'real name' movement |
| 17:54.31 | Jamash | I mind realid anywhere as long as I can't use features without it |
| 17:54.32 | Adys | it's not changing NightHawkTheSane :P it's just people more easily hand out information about themselves |
| 17:54.33 | Fisker | me too Ackis |
| 17:54.49 | Adys | theres next to no app that requires you (except legally) to hand out your name |
| 17:54.53 | Adys | on the web |
| 17:54.54 | Shadowed | The ironic thing is |
| 17:55.00 | Shadowed | they are going against what RealID is for |
| 17:55.05 | Jamash | yes |
| 17:55.06 | Fisker | yeah |
| 17:55.09 | NightHawkTheSane | Adys: no, it IS changing, that people are more willing to give out their information is just a social effect of that. |
| 17:55.14 | Jamash | it was announced as being for real life friends only |
| 17:55.18 | Seerah | RealID was for people you knew in Real Life |
| 17:55.23 | Jamash | now it's suddenly for everyone with an internet connection |
| 17:55.23 | DWSR | I think it's an excellent change. Scorched Earth for the forums is a good idea. |
| 17:55.26 | amro | NightHawkTheSane: now would be your turn to back things up |
| 17:55.28 | Shadowed | It's not really that people are more willing to give out their information, it's that more people are ignorant of what is available |
| 17:55.34 | Adys | NightHawkTheSane: no, it's just that people don't realize everyone has access to a lot of stuff they're giving out |
| 17:55.40 | amro | I expect graphs and 2 hour powerpoint presentations |
| 17:55.42 | Shadowed | too slow Adys! |
| 17:55.45 | Adys | Shadowed: exactly, which is why i said i think the thing will be scrapped |
| 17:55.52 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: what game community other than WoW is going to force you to list your real name anywhere? |
| 17:55.53 | Adys | yes well fu |
| 17:55.56 | Shadowed | It's a really weird change |
| 17:56.00 | Shadowed | IT feels super hamfisted |
| 17:56.05 | NightHawkTheSane | Adys, Shadowed: that's absolutely true |
| 17:56.17 | Dagmar | They spent all day and all night in their parents' basement, and therefore have no rational idea of what a 'friend' is |
| 17:56.29 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: I don't know of one, but that doesn't mean someone can't be the first. |
| 17:56.44 | foxlit | Personally |
| 17:56.47 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: no, but it does put the burden of proving "the tides are changing" on you |
| 17:56.48 | amro | NightHawkTheSane: yeah well I'm still waiting for you to back things up |
| 17:56.52 | Shadowed | Personally, I don't hugely care about my real name being out there and you can find mine pretty easily, but I don't want it tied to every post I make on the forums |
| 17:56.54 | foxlit | I'm waiting for the "And we'll do it with retroactive force" announcement |
| 17:57.02 | eidolarr | STEAM is a massive online community where your real name has nothing to do with it |
| 17:57.03 | Jamash | I know there was at least one Xbox Live enabled game that had a message in an early version that said "You have no friends." if your friends list was empty. |
| 17:57.04 | Shadowed | They already said they'll be a new set of forums foxlit |
| 17:57.04 | NightHawkTheSane | Personally, I'm not /really/ sure I like the real-id forum changes. But I'm not vehmenently (sp?) opposed to them. |
| 17:57.05 | batbot | NightHawkTheSane, nothing found. |
| 17:57.13 | foxlit | Shadowed: :( |
| 17:57.21 | Shadowed | They have to do that :p |
| 17:57.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Fierceflame (~timo.meij@ip231-37-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 17:57.36 | Shadowed | If they don't make it 100% clear what is happening they'll probably get sued to hell |
| 17:57.45 | Dagmar | What about the forums now? |
| 17:57.47 | foxlit | I don't have the text in front of me; are you sure that wasn't just about sc2? |
| 17:57.56 | Jamash | it was about sc2 and cata |
| 17:58.00 | eidolarr | Shadowed: they said explicitly it's not retroactive wrt WoW forums |
| 17:58.09 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: Do you have a link about these forum chnages? |
| 17:58.25 | foxlit | http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=25626109041&sid=3000 |
| 17:58.36 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: well, like it's been mentioned, a lot of information about a lot of people is (relatively) easily searchable. Part of that was ignorance, but part of it was just an acceptance of it. Over time, it slowly snowballed. |
| 17:58.40 | Dagmar | Danke |
| 17:59.07 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: I agree the real-id changes are a VERY BIG change, maybe an unprecedented jump. |
| 17:59.30 | Dagmar | Well... |
| 17:59.34 | NightHawkTheSane | but I think over time we'd be heading that direction anyway. maybe it'd just take longer. |
| 17:59.41 | Dagmar | This WILL clamp down on forum trolls quite a bit at least. |
| 17:59.44 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: information being available because it creeps out more than people expect is VERY different from people willingly publishing their own info, especially if you're talking about social change |
| 18:00.01 | Dagmar | Being that banning them just makes them create a new toon to post with apparently... |
| 18:00.10 | Adys | Apps/websites that were anonymous 5 years ago still are |
| 18:00.12 | Seerah | so many posts in that battle.net thread are deleted.... |
| 18:00.15 | Adys | bnet is one huge exception |
| 18:00.15 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: facebook is a great example of what i mean, though |
| 18:00.27 | Ackis | I wonder how this Real ID thing will work with selling your account |
| 18:00.29 | NightHawkTheSane | they've gotten a lot of heat for it |
| 18:00.39 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: facebook is the only example of what you mean, no other significant online community is fundamentally based on real names |
| 18:00.45 | Jamash | man I thought that the "disenchant" button thing was a shitstorm |
| 18:00.48 | NightHawkTheSane | but they're still pushing forward. (which, admittedly, maybe isn't the brightest idea..) |
| 18:00.50 | Jamash | it was nothing compared to this |
| 18:00.53 | eidolarr | you can't claim massive social change with only one example |
| 18:00.54 | amro | Dagmar: they could easily make a toon ban affect a bnet account behind the scenes |
| 18:00.56 | Ackis | waits for the selling your account is illegal :P |
| 18:00.59 | amro | they don't need to expose your real info |
| 18:01.21 | Dagmar | amro: ...and yet they have not |
| 18:01.30 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: i'm not claiming massive social change, didn't mean to imply that I was, I'm merely saying the current is moving in that direction. This is one step. |
| 18:01.40 | eidolarr | Dagmar: ? there are definitely account bans on the wow forums |
| 18:01.55 | amro | Dagmar: point is this shouldn't affect bans |
| 18:01.57 | amro | in any way |
| 18:02.03 | cog|work | Cide: your identicon is very pointy |
| 18:02.08 | Shadowed | It's really not |
| 18:02.09 | amro | whatever banning they can do with realID, they should be able to do already |
| 18:02.17 | Adys | Jamash: main issue is that it's going to be retroactive |
| 18:02.19 | Dagmar | eidolarr: Then they need a BIGGER HAMMER |
| 18:02.20 | Shadowed | The general direction is companies want to release more of your personal information, and people don't want you to |
| 18:02.25 | Shadowed | Adys it's not going to be retroactive |
| 18:02.28 | Jamash | it is NOT going to be retroactive |
| 18:02.36 | Dagmar | eidolarr: Most days the forums are little better than /2 |
| 18:02.37 | Adys | er |
| 18:02.44 | Lopeppeppy | They are closing old forums, making new. Not retroactive. |
| 18:02.44 | Adys | I meant non-opt-in |
| 18:02.48 | Jamash | yes |
| 18:02.48 | Adys | sorry |
| 18:02.54 | NightHawkTheSane | Shadowed: yeah, and let's be honest, who has more power? :\ |
| 18:02.55 | Jamash | I want opt-in realid |
| 18:02.57 | Lopeppeppy | Yeah, there's only complete opt-out, of not posting. |
| 18:02.59 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: fair enough |
| 18:03.04 | Shadowed | both people do really |
| 18:03.16 | Jamash | I want every feature to be separately enabled and disabled in battle.net settings |
| 18:03.20 | Dagmar | I just won't be posting to the forums at all tho if they're doing this |
| 18:03.23 | Shadowed | It shifts more towards the company after a while |
| 18:03.27 | NightHawkTheSane | Shadowed: you'll forgive my extreme cynicism that individuals have any power over corporations these dyas. |
| 18:03.31 | NightHawkTheSane | days* |
| 18:03.32 | Jamash | for example, I do not want friends-of-friends to be able to see my real name |
| 18:03.32 | Dagmar | I don't expose my real name to search engines, goddamnit |
| 18:03.35 | Shadowed | Of course not individuals, you have the majority |
| 18:03.57 | Shadowed | Obviously it's not something that happens overnight, but there is always backlash over things like privacy eventually |
| 18:04.01 | foxlit | Dagmar: name change to John Doe, only 14.99$ |
| 18:04.12 | amro | ~foxlit++ |
| 18:04.17 | *** join/#wowuidev daev (~bleh@pool-72-86-110-88.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 18:04.30 | Dagmar | foxlit: I'm seriously considering making a monthly thing of changing my account details |
| 18:04.40 | NightHawkTheSane | Shadowed: yeah, there's backlash, but's generally a two steps forward, one step back kind of thing. |
| 18:04.45 | nevcairiel | You can't change your real name |
| 18:04.52 | Shadowed | Pretty sure you can |
| 18:04.52 | foxlit | I don't think they let you alter your ID |
| 18:05.03 | eidolarr | Dagmar: most popular WoW forums have trolling problems, but this is like dropping a nuclear bomb on it |
| 18:05.12 | Shadowed | but not enough that you could do it monthly |
| 18:05.16 | nevcairiel | Only by calling support and providing documentation that you married or something that would cause your name to change |
| 18:05.17 | Lopeppeppy | Takes some hideousness. I've enquired about how to do it when I get my name changed... eeew. |
| 18:05.18 | amro | you have to call them and send documentation |
| 18:05.21 | Shadowed | eidolarr not really |
| 18:05.27 | amro | which is funny because you don't need documentation when you create the account |
| 18:05.32 | Shadowed | It's kind of like blowing up the earth to solve a rodent problem |
| 18:05.37 | nevcairiel | amro: i thought that as well =P |
| 18:05.46 | foxlit | Hah. |
| 18:05.54 | foxlit | I can't log in to battle.net without accepting their ToU |
| 18:06.00 | Xinhuan | the problem really is that, Blizzard has been saying Real ID is meant to be used by your IRL friends... now they are reversing that stance and going to use your Real ID (real name) on the forums too |
| 18:06.08 | nevcairiel | Although when you have the wrong name in the profile, and you get hacked, it might be extra tricky to get it back ;) |
| 18:06.15 | eidolarr | the new system sounds like... reddit with real names? it will be something to see at least |
| 18:06.15 | foxlit | At the very least they should highlight what's actually changed :/ |
| 18:06.22 | Dagmar | Xinhuan: It's a bit too far, yeah |
| 18:06.23 | Shadowed | nevcairiel I think it's almost impossible at that point |
| 18:06.25 | NightHawkTheSane | Xinhuan: that, I think, is a bigger concern. |
| 18:06.41 | amro | nevcairiel: I lost a real account with real information, and I wasn't even hacked |
| 18:06.44 | nevcairiel | Shadowed: even if you provide cdkey in original, they probably assume you bought the account |
| 18:06.54 | amro | they banned me for account trading when no such thing ever happened |
| 18:06.58 | eidolarr | Xinhuan: I think they are removing the forums as an online community and trying to build a more mature, serious stack overflowy kind of thing |
| 18:06.59 | Shadowed | yea nevcairiel |
| 18:07.01 | Shadowed | Well |
| 18:07.07 | Shadowed | You could forge the documentation pretty easily to be fair |
| 18:07.14 | amro | the best part: you could only communicate via snail mail or fax |
| 18:07.20 | eidolarr | Shadowed: is that legal? |
| 18:07.21 | Shadowed | Because all they ask for is a scanned, not the real thing |
| 18:07.22 | nevcairiel | sure, but thats illegal |
| 18:07.23 | Shadowed | eidolarr probably not |
| 18:07.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Beutju (~tus@manz-5f74afca.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 18:07.26 | nevcairiel | and a big step to do |
| 18:07.32 | Dagmar | illegal shmeleagal |
| 18:07.50 | eidolarr | today i learned how to spell shmeleagal |
| 18:08.07 | nevcairiel | There is still a difference in changing your name to be hidden, and creating a false document to do so |
| 18:08.07 | NeoTron | Cryptic really did the right thing |
| 18:08.12 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: .. actually, a wow StackExachange styled site would be pretty awesome. |
| 18:08.13 | NeoTron | they have a realid but the realid is a handle |
| 18:08.23 | NeoTron | that's always visible in-game and on the forums, to anyone. |
| 18:08.24 | Dagmar | You'd be fucked as a prosecuting attorney trying to make a forgery charge for something like a gaming account stick |
| 18:08.41 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: yeah it kind of would, but not at the cost of a normal community, I think what they're doing would work best as an addition |
| 18:08.41 | NeoTron | it prevents level 1 trolling both in-game and on the forums and allows for account, cross-game ignore lists |
| 18:08.46 | Dagmar | If they let me put "Dagmar d'Surreal" in there, I'd be for it |
| 18:08.49 | Xinhuan | "It will be pretty intresting to see the profiles on facebook/myspace of some of the "top raiders"" |
| 18:08.50 | NeoTron | much better than this clusterfuck Blizzard is using |
| 18:08.56 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: althuogh if they did that it's not clear that anyone would use it over the "standard" forums, given the real name thing |
| 18:08.58 | Dagmar | I have my 'nym for this reason |
| 18:08.59 | Shadowed | Actually I wonder how illegal that would be |
| 18:09.22 | Shadowed | It's not like there are any laws against it, and Blizzard isn't a government agency |
| 18:09.30 | Shadowed | er, laws regarding WoW accounts |
| 18:09.31 | amro | Shadowed: against forgery? |
| 18:09.32 | NeoTron | my name is truly unique, I really don't want to broadcast it THAT easily :P |
| 18:09.35 | Dagmar | Shadowed: This is why I'm saying it would be damn hard to prosecute |
| 18:09.45 | amro | there's a blanket law against pretending to be somebody else |
| 18:09.51 | eidolarr | Shadowed: I am pretty sure presenting a falsified government document as real is illegal |
| 18:09.58 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: *shrug* I havn't posted on the official forums for years, the S/N ratio was just too shitty. This change -might- convince me to post again, we'll see how it shakes out. A StackExchange styled site would definitely get me to post again, though |
| 18:09.59 | Dagmar | amro: yes, but someone has to give a shit first |
| 18:10.04 | amro | yeah |
| 18:10.07 | Xinhuan | what i suspect would happen is that a "unofficial wow forums" would get hosted somewhere else and everyone going to it |
| 18:10.12 | Dagmar | The FBI will not prosecute for something like that |
| 18:10.19 | Xinhuan | somewhat similar to elitist jerks forums |
| 18:10.22 | Dagmar | They have _actual_ criminals to chase after |
| 18:10.24 | foxlit | Xinhuan: what would be the appeal of that? |
| 18:10.27 | Jamash | brb, registering at mmo champ |
| 18:10.28 | Shadowed | You aren't really pretending to be someone else if the name doesn't exist |
| 18:10.29 | Xinhuan | i don't know |
| 18:10.31 | eidolarr | Xinhuan: I'm skeptical that will gain any momentum, EJ is a tiny fraction of the actual community |
| 18:10.40 | Xinhuan | well you know what i mean |
| 18:10.42 | Eluna | I don't know if I should be able to do that, but I was able to create a character on the US beta server with an EU account.. :P |
| 18:10.45 | Xinhuan | a forum replacement without real ID |
| 18:10.49 | foxlit | Thing is, you have an excuse to rage at blizzard on wow forums |
| 18:10.57 | eidolarr | Xinhuan: yeah I'm saying I doubt it will gain much traction |
| 18:11.03 | foxlit | You won't at any third-party thing. |
| 18:11.04 | Xinhuan | its hard to tell |
| 18:11.06 | nevcairiel | people wouldn't go to unofficial forums |
| 18:11.09 | Dagmar | Hell, you're _legally_ allowed to change your name at any time simply by using another name, so long as you are not doing so for the purposes of fraud or debt evasion |
| 18:11.19 | nevcairiel | they can't pretent to get the attentions of blues there |
| 18:11.45 | eidolarr | Xinhuan: my realm forum was butchered by moderators following some lesbian/gay drama, they deleted like every other post; an alternate forum that already existed was made in objection, never went anywhere |
| 18:11.59 | eidolarr | anectodal of course but I am skeptical |
| 18:12.13 | Xinhuan | yes but that's over something questionable in the first place |
| 18:12.18 | Xinhuan | now real ID is an actual concern |
| 18:12.28 | eidolarr | it was pretty real |
| 18:12.48 | eidolarr | I think our realm was the one the gay drama in the news came from, they were very liberal with their moderation |
| 18:12.57 | nevcairiel | Most pots on the official forums are complaints, support requests, or feedback/bug reports. All of which want some kind of blue attention |
| 18:13.03 | Xinhuan | in your case, your server is but 0.1% of the wow population |
| 18:13.38 | eidolarr | Xinhuan: sure but it takes extra dedication to post on your realm forum vs general forums, and people wouldn't even be bothered to use unofficial forums even for that |
| 18:13.50 | amro | nevcairiel: there's no reason to expose your name for any of that |
| 18:13.50 | Xinhuan | we'll see :P |
| 18:13.55 | amro | only blizzard needs to know, and they already do |
| 18:14.12 | Dagmar | I wonder how much of General is filled with people saying "You have to be kidding me" |
| 18:14.15 | Xinhuan | for many of us, its not really an issue, our addons already have our real names plastered on it |
| 18:14.22 | nevcairiel | amro: not my point, point was just that you can't go to unofficial forums for those =P |
| 18:14.30 | Shadowed | Xinhuan, it's a bit different to have your name in pieces of code and on the forums to be fair |
| 18:14.31 | foxlit | silly dns contact information |
| 18:14.40 | amro | nevcairiel: ah, yeah |
| 18:14.42 | Xinhuan | i suppose so Shadowed |
| 18:14.43 | Dagmar | shadowed: Yes if you're smart you rot13 it in code |
| 18:14.45 | foxlit | (and the bastards who index that stuff) |
| 18:14.47 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: The general forums have a trolling problem, but some of the others - UI forums, realm forums, class forums to a lesser extent - are more civil and will be changed dramatically |
| 18:14.52 | Shadowed | haha Dagmar |
| 18:15.17 | Shadowed | Although it also depends on your WoW name, most of mine can't easily be tracked to me on WoW forums |
| 18:15.30 | Dagmar | You laugh, but Google for rivyqntzne |
| 18:15.44 | foxlit | The UI forums are basically a soup of "why doesn't my macro play the game for me?" threads intermixed with some occasional "why doesn't this code work?" |
| 18:15.57 | nevcairiel | I don't post on WoW forums either way, mostly because EU is a joek and they don't let me into the US forums .. but the change wouldn't stop me if i were |
| 18:16.10 | Dagmar | I had to start doing that because some ASSHOLES who run a particular website that subscribes to dev lists like to not bother filtering out email addresses |
| 18:16.24 | Dagmar | We noticed because every dev on the team started getting PILES of spam |
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| 18:16.25 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 18:16.35 | eidolarr | foxlit: yeah but those aren't "problems" that are solved by real names |
| 18:16.36 | Ackis | https://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/funny-pictures-farting-kitten.jpg |
| 18:16.48 | foxlit | eidolarr: no big loss if they disappear. |
| 18:16.59 | foxlit | The threads, that is. |
| 18:17.04 | nevcairiel | why do kittens come in SSL these days? |
| 18:17.04 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: I've seen a lot of hostility in the UI forums. but *shrug* civil discourse wont change that much... |
| 18:17.08 | NightHawkTheSane | http://www.montulli.org/theoriginofthe%3Cblink%3Etag |
| 18:17.32 | Ackis | nevcairiel: I have a firefox plug in from the EFF that switches everything to SSL when it can |
| 18:17.38 | Dagmar | "ASSHOLES" being nabble, IIRC |
| 18:17.56 | eidolarr | foxlit: i'm saying the opposite, they won't disappear any mroe than any other post, presumably only trolling will shrink greatly relative to everything else |
| 18:18.15 | foxlit | More like orthogonal. |
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| 18:18.50 | eidolarr | that's not what i was going for |
| 18:19.05 | Ackis | nevcairiel: https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere if you care :P it protects ur kitties |
| 18:20.03 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: It's too early to say, but I suspect a lot of good people will be discouraged by the real name exposure; even here people are saying they won't use any RealID based services |
| 18:20.43 | Jamash | I'm only realid friends with 3 people, one of whom I'm related to |
| 18:20.56 | Ackis | on a side note: https://twitter.com/BlizzardPR is amusing |
| 18:20.58 | eidolarr | my point being that you can't view it as just an attack on trolling or stupid posts, as it will shift the community completely from every angle |
| 18:21.07 | Ackis | I'm real ID friends with no one |
| 18:21.22 | amro | Ackis: that's hilarious |
| 18:21.35 | eidolarr | "@elitistjerks Infractions now involve calling a user's supervisor and telling them about the poor quality World of Warcraft posts." haha |
| 18:21.36 | Shadowed | haha |
| 18:21.44 | foxlit | Ackis: me too. Be my realid friend? |
| 18:22.03 | Ackis | foxlit: that would require I subscribe :( |
| 18:22.26 | Cide | <cog|work> Cide: your identicon is very pointy |
| 18:22.27 | Cide | what? |
| 18:22.42 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: yeah, I'm even willing to say there's no guarantee this will make me want to post. But I don't know that the result will be /worse/ than what there is now. |
| 18:23.04 | cog|work | Cide: http://stackoverflow.com/users/145564/cide |
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| 18:23.12 | Jamash | I don't care whether it'll be better or worse |
| 18:23.14 | cog|work | !g identicon |
| 18:23.15 | batbot | cog|work: Identicon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identicon> |
| 18:23.35 | Jamash | I care that I won't be able to post without using my real name |
| 18:23.52 | NeoTron | Jamash: I will just not post |
| 18:23.58 | eidolarr | I don't know about better or worse, but I do know that some good facets of the current community will be gone, and I will miss them |
| 18:23.58 | Jamash | Same |
| 18:24.32 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: and some bad ones might be gone too. |
| 18:24.33 | eidolarr | also remember the removal of chatrooms from SC2, battle.net is doing a 180 |
| 18:24.38 | Dagmar | NeoTron: I won't be posting anymore either |
| 18:24.44 | NightHawkTheSane | i guess, is it worth breaking a few eggs to make an omelette? |
| 18:24.57 | Jamash | metaphorfail |
| 18:25.17 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah, i kinda stretched that one. |
| 18:25.22 | eidolarr | yeah trolling for sure will die down, but it's not like they've made a great exertion to curb it before this community reboot |
| 18:25.28 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: This isn't "breaking a few eggs". This is "dropping a small building on the chicken coop" |
| 18:25.29 | Jamash | hey NightHawkTheSane, do you have a certificate of sanity? |
| 18:25.40 | Cide | cog|work, ah |
| 18:25.41 | Cide | default icon |
| 18:25.46 | NightHawkTheSane | Jamash: I have a fishbowl with an engraving, does that count? |
| 18:26.31 | Jamash | Let's see, on the one side, they could hire more forum moderators; on the other side, they could make a colossal and disruptive change to the nature of the forums |
| 18:26.44 | Jamash | I'm with hiring more moderators |
| 18:26.45 | Kraps | oh wow |
| 18:26.48 | NightHawkTheSane | i dont think more moderators would solve the problem |
| 18:26.54 | Jamash | NightHawkTheSane: does it go "ting"? |
| 18:27.00 | nevcairiel | more moderators dont usually solve trolling issues |
| 18:27.07 | NeoTron | I really ind of wonder if this simply won't remove most valid posts |
| 18:27.15 | NeoTron | while trolls, who probably don't care anyway, will remain |
| 18:27.22 | NightHawkTheSane | stricter posting policies might help, and one could argue that this IS a stricter posting policy.. |
| 18:27.25 | NeoTron | in fact I'd find that very amusinc |
| 18:27.28 | Dagmar | Only bigger bans can solve trolling issues |
| 18:27.34 | Kraps | that post is sick |
| 18:27.44 | nevcairiel | They need to actually ban for trolling |
| 18:27.49 | nevcairiel | not only for insults |
| 18:27.49 | NightHawkTheSane | NeoTron: yeah, the possibility occured to me, which would be both amusing and annoying. |
| 18:28.02 | Dagmar | nevcariel: Agreed |
| 18:28.19 | NightHawkTheSane | nevcairiel: they've sorta rebuffed draconian moderation in the past, though |
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| 18:28.36 | cog|work | hai Sixen1 |
| 18:28.42 | eidolarr | nevcairiel: they do |
| 18:28.50 | nevcairiel | only if its kinda extreme |
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| 18:28.57 | amro | more importantly, Uruguay vs Netherlands |
| 18:29.22 | eidolarr | nevcairiel: the policy isn't totally sound; for example if anything in your post can be construed as pornographic they can perm ban you |
| 18:29.35 | eidolarr | nevcairiel: meanwhile someone else might be trolling 10x harder and get off with a weekend suspension |
| 18:29.40 | cog|work | hai Jelly|Laptop |
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| 18:30.05 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 18:30.11 | NightHawkTheSane | amro: that IS more important. |
| 18:30.21 | NightHawkTheSane | I think i want netherlands to wind. |
| 18:30.23 | NightHawkTheSane | win* |
| 18:30.31 | nevcairiel | ned:ger in finals, go |
| 18:30.33 | NightHawkTheSane | also wind, but whatever. |
| 18:30.39 | NightHawkTheSane | nevcairiel: that'd be pretty awesome ;) |
| 18:30.51 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: I don't know whether heavy moderation is the answer. I'm saying they didn't try very hard before dropping this bomb |
| 18:31.01 | Cide | nah |
| 18:31.02 | Ackis | they can also ban you for posting on a second account when your first is temp-banned (aka they're douches) |
| 18:31.12 | Cide | only for, what, 6 years? |
| 18:31.25 | nevcairiel | ban evasion is a ban reason everywhere |
| 18:31.28 | nevcairiel | thats nothing special |
| 18:31.32 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: the thing is, heavy moderation is not the same as the real-id change. |
| 18:31.32 | Jelly|Laptop | hai cog :) |
| 18:31.37 | Jelly|Laptop | work = boring so lollaptop |
| 18:32.01 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: no, I'm not saying it is, I'm saying that they have skipped to the last resort without trying the inbetweens that are neither moderation nor real-ID |
| 18:32.24 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: i dont even think this is a "last resort" |
| 18:32.32 | nevcairiel | They could save the whole deal by just adding an alias to realids |
| 18:32.38 | nevcairiel | wouldnt even have to back out on any change |
| 18:32.41 | Ackis | nevcairiel: that's creating a new account/ID, linking 2 separate accounts together probably violated their privacy policy at the time tbh |
| 18:32.43 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: you can't get much more dramatic a change than the realID deal |
| 18:33.03 | NightHawkTheSane | NeoTron pointed it out, but this won't directly STOP bad behavior, just discourge the people too cowardly to do it non-anoymously. |
| 18:33.14 | NightHawkTheSane | (and hopefully stop more, too, but that's not a guarantee) |
| 18:33.17 | nevcairiel | Ackis: bans are not for your account, its for you. So if you, by any means, evade the ban and post again, you are evading =P |
| 18:33.31 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: it's dramatic, sure, but it's not the be-all-end-all of forum control |
| 18:33.31 | Jamash | the only way they could get more invasive is by posting your credit card # |
| 18:33.35 | Ackis | bans are account based |
| 18:33.41 | Ackis | sure *some* are for people |
| 18:33.42 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: it's a tool, a powerful one, but just one. |
| 18:33.47 | Ackis | but it's for the account |
| 18:33.48 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: what is more be-all-end-all besides like, deleting the forums? |
| 18:33.51 | nevcairiel | because they don't have any technical means otherwise |
| 18:33.55 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: nevermind don't answer that |
| 18:34.05 | nevcairiel | but if someone is an ass on the forums, they want to get rid of the guy, not of the account |
| 18:34.06 | Ackis | like when I IP banned you, that was to ban you, not just your account :P |
| 18:34.08 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: heh. ;) |
| 18:34.34 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: personally, for forum-control, I think EJ-like draconian moderation policies are more severe |
| 18:34.40 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: I'm saying that the realID thing is going to completely redefine the community, you can't have a more profound impact on the current community than that |
| 18:34.53 | eidolarr | yeah but I don't think that's feasible for forums on the scale of wow's |
| 18:35.09 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: oh, it certainly WILL redefine the community, absolutely. |
| 18:35.24 | Jamash | there are plenty of technical means |
| 18:35.29 | Jamash | that they haven't explored |
| 18:35.29 | Lunessa | http://failbook.com/2010/07/02/funny-facebook-fails-gotta-get-my-zerg-on/ |
| 18:35.52 | Jamash | such as karma, voting, having a single identifier for your bnet account (that is not your real name), etc. |
| 18:35.57 | eidolarr | Jamash has it, there's a huge amount of ground in between they haven't tried |
| 18:36.03 | NightHawkTheSane | but to say that there are a host of other options that they should have tried first is maybe a bit disingenuous. It's entirely possible that what blizzard wants is the result of this (or what they think they want) |
| 18:37.14 | Jamash | I'm beginning to wonder if the higher ups at blizzard aren't going slightly crazy |
| 18:37.21 | cog|work | nsfw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSRVy91LPVE |
| 18:37.38 | Jamash | NHTS: do you know what the word "disingenuous" means? |
| 18:38.26 | eidolarr | If the purpose of the redesign is to make the forums more civil, as they seem to claim, they've not nearly exhausted their options |
| 18:38.32 | NightHawkTheSane | Jamash: yes. |
| 18:38.59 | Jamash | You're accusing me and others of being insincere in our beliefs or statements |
| 18:39.00 | NightHawkTheSane | although rereading what I said, while I stand by it, I suspect my meaning would have been clear if it had been rephrased. |
| 18:41.29 | Dagmar | There's a bit of a difference between anonymity and privacy |
| 18:41.38 | Dagmar | Someone has lost sight ofg that |
| 18:41.47 | Jamash | ~Dagmar++ |
| 18:41.57 | Dagmar | This change is _privacy-destroying_ tho |
| 18:42.24 | Fierceflame | Is it possible to re-initialize a table, so the meaning of the entries aren;t locked on initial load? |
| 18:42.37 | Dagmar | At the very least, they're going to have to amend that so it only shows first name and last initial, or they'll lose money |
| 18:43.03 | eidolarr | Fierceflame: elaborate? |
| 18:43.27 | nevcairiel | You can wtf you want with a table |
| 18:43.39 | nevcairiel | can do* |
| 18:44.20 | Fierceflame | I want a message inside a table with a variable, but the variable is locked at load, so it isnt really variable anymore :S |
| 18:44.37 | Jamash | there's no such thing as a locked variable in Lua |
| 18:44.48 | eidolarr | Fierceflame: I don't really understand, you can certainly say t[someKey] = someOtherVvalue; |
| 18:44.50 | Fierceflame | Getting the code, 2 sec |
| 18:45.16 | mikma | wtb rogue subtlety pvp build + glyphs, pst |
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| 18:45.38 | foxlit | He's complaining it doesn't update after initialization. |
| 18:45.52 | foxlit | (while not attempting to update it explicitly) |
| 18:46.09 | Jamash | put 71 points in master of deception |
| 18:46.16 | eidolarr | oh, you should register for the event fired when the value should change (if one exists) and then update it in the handler |
| 18:46.23 | foxlit | rather, expecting t = { "Hi " .. name } to keep t[0] up-to-date as name changes |
| 18:46.28 | eidolarr | or in the worst case keep polling with onupdate |
| 18:46.41 | Jamash | never mention onupdate to a noob, they might use it |
| 18:46.44 | eidolarr | or, do something fancy with metatables |
| 18:46.50 | Fierceflame | http://toptop18.pastey.net/138355/49 as you can see in the highlighted line 49, there's a variable in there. If later on this variable is changed by the user, through a slashcommand that message should be displayed with the variable being the value they putted it to. But as the table is initialezed at start, that doesnt work |
| 18:47.20 | Jamash | yeah you're initializing it once at addon load time |
| 18:48.04 | Jamash | one way to deal with that is make a function that performs the string concatenation at run time |
| 18:48.34 | eidolarr | Fierceflame: you have a few options; you can either keep updating the table when that changes, which involves registering an event and is probably the most straightforward |
| 18:48.46 | Fierceflame | Jnwhiteh said something like that, but gone away and I dont really get how to do that :S |
| 18:48.55 | Jamash | so like local function gearsetchanged() return "blah"..variable.."blah" end |
| 18:49.11 | eidolarr | or you can call a function instead of doing a table lookup, which would be inelegant (which you can clean up with sneaky metatable stuff) |
| 18:49.18 | Ackis | ohh the blizzardPR twitter just brought up a good point: Worried about removing that mentally unstable mage from your guild? Don't be. He only knows your real name, what harm could come from that! |
| 18:49.22 | Jamash | elegance shmelegance |
| 18:49.24 | amro | van bronckhorst ftw |
| 18:49.38 | Lopeppeppy | :) |
| 18:49.55 | eidolarr | Fierceflame: isn't that what you're already doing in about like 172? |
| 18:50.15 | Fierceflame | Ye that was a quick inelegant fix :P |
| 18:50.37 | Fierceflame | It actually makes the table useless, as I wanted the table to contain all messages |
| 18:50.49 | Jamash | the way I handle that is with format strings |
| 18:50.51 | Jamash | gimme a sec |
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| 18:51.44 | eidolarr | Fierceflame: if you want to use a table bare like that, you're going to have to change the value at some point, and it seems like you've done it at the appropriate place |
| 18:52.15 | Ackis | Fisker: https://thereifixedit.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/9bd9e777-301e-4ccd-8f63-878a48f9d40c.jpg |
| 18:52.21 | Jamash | highly abbreviated, I have a function MyAddon:GetText(stringid, ...) return format(stringtable[stringid], ...) end |
| 18:52.31 | Fierceflame | Eidolarr, but that makes the idea of why I created that table useless :P |
| 18:52.49 | Jamash | the GetText function also handles localization |
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| 18:53.08 | foxlit | Ackis: does it work? |
| 18:53.11 | Jamash | I can pastey the whole thing if you like |
| 18:53.18 | Ackis | foxlit: no idea but I wanna try it now lol |
| 18:53.24 | Jamash | wow |
| 18:53.26 | Fierceflame | Yes please :D |
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| 18:53.37 | Fierceflame | Still dont really get it, kinda new to coding :P |
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| 18:54.49 | eidolarr | Fierceflame: do you understand functions? |
| 18:54.58 | eidolarr | Fierceflame: what if you had a function that was like this: |
| 18:55.11 | Jamash | http://wowuidev.pastey.net/138357 |
| 18:55.28 | eidolarr | function GetText(string) if (string == "gearsetchange") then return "The gearset for enabled PvP will be..." else return messages[string] end end |
| 18:56.19 | eidolarr | that's the idea behind using a function for it, and there are ways to make it nicer |
| 18:56.59 | Jamash | I make extensive use of methods and properties in my addon, which you may or may not want to do yourself |
| 18:58.10 | Fierceflame | Eidolarr, that way I'll still define the text out of the shiny table right? :S |
| 18:58.47 | Fierceflame | I could make a function for the whole thing, but a table seemed better :S |
| 18:59.00 | Jamash | function + table > function or table |
| 19:00.52 | Kraps | "Players will have the ability to rate up or rate down posts so that great topics and replies stand out from the not-so-great; low-rated posts will appear dimmer to show that the community feels that they donât contribute effectively to the conversation" I THOUGHT THEY WERENT DOING THAT BECAUSE OF THE ABILITY TO TROLL WITH RATINGS unless it shows your name when you rate lol |
| 19:01.13 | Jamash | so an example of how I use that function is print(self:GetText("title")..": ".. self:GetText("listIgnored", titlecase)) |
| 19:01.40 | Fierceflame | So you suggest that the table entry for "gearsetcahged" calls a function that sets the message? Got it riught that way? |
| 19:01.47 | Jamash | they should just farm the entire system out to wowhead |
| 19:02.32 | Jamash | I suggest that you call a function that looks up the value in the table and performs any necessary string modifications before passing it back |
| 19:03.02 | Jamash | do you know how to use format()? |
| 19:03.10 | Fierceflame | Nope |
| 19:03.14 | Jamash | ok |
| 19:03.29 | Jamash | have you ever used printf in any other language? |
| 19:03.57 | Fierceflame | Don;t code any other things, so no :P Really new to this |
| 19:04.14 | Jamash | lemme find the explanation on that |
| 19:04.15 | Dagmar | Oh well. |
| 19:04.25 | olafski | I think the non-trolls still outnumber the trolls kraps |
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| 19:04.57 | Dagmar | This is mischief I must spread... http://tweeter.faxo.com/Justin_Bieber_My_World_Tour |
| 19:04.59 | Jamash | http://www.lua.org/pil/20.html |
| 19:05.05 | Dagmar | "Vote for North Korea" |
| 19:05.08 | durcyn | only in numbers, not in representation, olafski |
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| 19:05.57 | olafski | sure.. but if I read a good post and the button is right there, I will click it |
| 19:06.04 | olafski | as long as they implement it properly and it doesn't reload the page and such |
| 19:06.11 | Jamash | all you really need to know is if you do format("a string with %s in it", "another string"), you get "a string with another string in it" |
| 19:06.18 | olafski | I think even if a couple of people troll down a good post it will still end up higher than average |
| 19:06.24 | olafski | works on wowhead.. |
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| 19:07.12 | olafski | though it would be cool if they implemented the whole karma system with it |
| 19:07.22 | Fierceflame | Okay |
| 19:07.29 | olafski | pretty much takes care of trolls too (once again assuming they don't outnumber the proper users) |
| 19:07.44 | Fierceflame | Gonna try some things, brb |
| 19:08.03 | Kraps | look, why cant they use systems like escapist, you get banned/suspended all your post get grayed out with a link to the offending post, or any other damn system that works |
| 19:08.34 | Jamash | I would prefer them to get a blog and shut down the forums to the currently announced nonsense. |
| 19:09.29 | durcyn | 10 million hyenas can't be wrong. |
| 19:11.13 | Kraps | all this will do is discourage good poster Xavier Merlok and encourage bad poster Smith Johnson |
| 19:14.19 | alestane | What "this will do" will be determined when and if the system goes into effect. A population this size is too chaotic, especially when advance notice like this is made. There is a reason Hari Seldon did not tell people what he was setting them up for. |
| 19:15.49 | alestane | Populations approach predictability only when they don't know they're being manipulated. All the same, I would rather have transparency in announcing a change like this than just have it sprung on us one day with no explanation. |
| 19:15.54 | *** join/#wowuidev taroven|Grr (~taroven|C@HW-ESR1-208-102-8-69.fuse.net) |
| 19:16.02 | Kraps | I'm not that familiar with Asimov |
| 19:16.02 | Cairenn | ^^ |
| 19:16.32 | Cairenn | since that didn't carry correctly: "All the same, I would rather have transparency in announcing a change like this than just have it sprung on us one day with no explanation." <== this |
| 19:16.32 | nicoli_s | asimov had some really good sci fi |
| 19:17.09 | Ackis | http://bit.ly/chlBaf can people confirm that? |
| 19:17.34 | nicoli_s | thats fucked |
| 19:17.43 | alestane | I am not confident that the change will have the anticipated effects. I am also not confident that it was the necessary or correct avenue to achieve the desired effects. But given that Blizzard has arrived at those conclusions, I believe they are proceeding in the most productive manner available, from those premises. |
| 19:17.48 | mikma | ackis: yes they can. |
| 19:18.21 | cbreak | bit.ly is a goatse.cx mirror. |
| 19:19.08 | durcyn | alestane: I find it hard to believe that revealing identities is an effective way of using guilt/shame/whathaveyou to control bad behavior, where reputation and karma systems have proven to be effective in the past |
| 19:19.08 | *** join/#wowuidev britneypire (~britneypi@212-198-248-35.rev.numericable.fr) |
| 19:19.30 | *** join/#wowuidev SeanK (~SeanK@pool-98-117-120-73.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 19:19.34 | alestane | And I have not disagreed with you. |
| 19:19.57 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (smcn@c-174-52-104-121.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:20.03 | durcyn | your last bit about them proceeding in the most productive manner available misled me then. |
| 19:20.39 | cbreak | what the hell! "The first and most significant change is that in the near future, anyone posting or replying to a post on official Blizzard forums will be doing so using their Real ID -- that is, their real-life first and last name -- with the option to also display the name of their primary in-game character alongside it." |
| 19:20.47 | cbreak | http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/ |
| 19:21.02 | batrick | lololol |
| 19:21.03 | Cairenn | cbreak: welcome to hours ago, sweetie :) |
| 19:21.12 | cbreak | hours ago I was working... |
| 19:21.16 | Cairenn | that's what everyone is bitching about |
| 19:21.46 | cbreak | ah well. I won't post on those forums anymore. Didn't post in years anyway. |
| 19:21.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@dsl4E5C02CD.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 19:21.55 | alestane | Given that they think that exposing this information is the right change to make (whether or not you agree with them), clearly communicating the changes in advance and the intent behind them is appropriate. |
| 19:22.15 | Jamash | alestane: I have less faith in corporate decision making processes. |
| 19:22.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Cloudwolf (~chatzilla@c-71-227-249-44.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 19:22.54 | Cloudwolf | .... |
| 19:22.56 | Jamash | I trust blizzard to do what's right in their games |
| 19:23.01 | Cloudwolf | blizzard has lost their god damned minds... |
| 19:23.08 | *** join/#wowuidev jacobeiting (~jacobeiti@phy-dhcp-34-254.mps.ohio-state.edu) |
| 19:23.15 | Kraps | alestane: OF COURSE they would communicate it! you're looking for a positive where there is none |
| 19:23.17 | Jamash | I don't trust them to do what's right with their out of game mechanics. |
| 19:23.20 | Dagmar | alestane: So you're basically saying "They're stupid, but they're going forward pretending they're not, which makes it all okay" |
| 19:23.22 | cbreak | just shutting down the forums is more honest. |
| 19:23.24 | Cloudwolf | jamash they are implimenting real id into thier forums... |
| 19:23.28 | vithos | hahah wow |
| 19:23.39 | Jamash | Cloudwolf: we've been discussing this for the past hour |
| 19:23.45 | cbreak | I am seriously considering making a new battle.net account for every blizzard game I get |
| 19:23.45 | Cloudwolf | i just logged in |
| 19:23.47 | nevcairiel | only an hour? |
| 19:23.47 | Cloudwolf | sorry |
| 19:23.56 | alestane | I actually have a great deal of faith in the intent of the Blizzard execs. I've met some of them. Whether or not their conclusions are correct is another matter. As I said before, I don't think any prediction of what this will do to the community is credible right now. |
| 19:23.57 | Jamash | idk when did the first post go live |
| 19:24.19 | krka | i sort of liked the idea of choosing who i disclose my gaming identity to |
| 19:24.21 | cbreak | is there a limit to the number of accounts a single person can have? |
| 19:24.26 | alestane | Damgar, I am saying that the action they are taking on their premise is intelligent. Their premise may not be. |
| 19:24.36 | Dagmar | alestane: No. I strongly disagree. This change is not anonymity-destroying, it's privacy-destroying which is another matter entirely |
| 19:24.47 | Dagmar | I say it's not. |
| 19:25.00 | Dagmar | I *do* think someone in management has lost their minds somehow. |
| 19:25.02 | krka | isn't it sort of both? |
| 19:25.08 | Dagmar | Someonw who does not "get" the Internet. |
| 19:25.22 | krka | "hey, facebook has real names and it's huge" |
| 19:25.24 | alestane | you think that this decision was made unilaterally by one person? |
| 19:25.26 | Dagmar | You absolutely *need* privacy on the internet. |
| 19:25.37 | Dagmar | alestane: No, I do not. Why do you even ask that? |
| 19:26.08 | alestane | Trust me, this did not happen because one day the forum manager woke up and said "Internet transparency!" like he'd had a drink of Kaja-kola. |
| 19:26.16 | Kraps | alestane: its possible for everyone in the same room to have a brain fart at the same time |
| 19:26.16 | Dagmar | I don't have to trust you. |
| 19:26.26 | Dagmar | THIS IS WHAT PRIVACY IS FOR. |
| 19:26.40 | Lunessa | Actually, at the very least it's is good that they didn't just "do it" and are announcing the change early enough for people to vote with their feet and dollars |
| 19:26.46 | Dagmar | It's entirely possible for a bunch of old curmudgeons to come up with a stupid idea like this. |
| 19:26.54 | Cloudwolf | I think the forums are going to die but since i don't have any basis for this besides my own personal beleif of i will never post on the blizzard forums again. |
| 19:26.55 | nevcairiel | violation of privacy would be them sharing your info without you having any choice |
| 19:26.57 | alestane | Exactly what I was asserting earlier, Lunessa. Thank you. |
| 19:26.58 | nevcairiel | but they are not |
| 19:27.15 | Dagmar | nevcariel: Yes, and now they're basically making forum use a violation of privacy |
| 19:27.39 | Dagmar | Whether or not you're being told about it in advance doesn't really affect that |
| 19:27.41 | nevcairiel | its not a violation of privacy if you chose to offer your information |
| 19:27.55 | Kraps | Lunessa: that is not a plus for them, its their corporate responsibility to announce huge things like this |
| 19:28.01 | Dagmar | ...and Facebook goddamn well does not have real names unless someone puts their real name in there--before someone asks. |
| 19:28.09 | alestane | The statement as they are making it boils down to, "If you don't believe in what you are saying firmly enough to have it follow you, DON'T POST." |
| 19:28.16 | amro | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-OPBzMd7_o |
| 19:28.21 | nevcairiel | the forums don't have your real name unless you put it there |
| 19:28.24 | alestane | I agree that it's a very heavy-handed measure. |
| 19:28.24 | Lunessa | Kraps: They /DID/ learn at least one lesson from Facebook... "Tell people first." |
| 19:28.26 | nevcairiel | iow. post |
| 19:28.27 | *** join/#wowuidev taroven|Rawr (~taroven|C@HW-ESR1-208-102-8-69.fuse.net) |
| 19:28.30 | Dagmar | alestane: This is an issue that could be solved with one persistent 'nym. |
| 19:28.41 | Maldivia | lol - just checked blue tracker :P |
| 19:28.52 | Dagmar | Lunessa: They'd have gotten sued otherwise |
| 19:29.04 | Dagmar | PII is serious shiznit. |
| 19:29.07 | Kraps | Maldivia: nice |
| 19:29.09 | Jamash | Maldivia: holeeeee crap |
| 19:29.18 | Dagmar | They already had an existing privacy policy in place |
| 19:29.39 | Kraps | forget cata, this is the next expansion |
| 19:29.43 | Dagmar | Like, it's more than just _technical_ reasons the old forums won't retroactively be showing real names. |
| 19:29.50 | Dagmar | It's that they'd get sued in an eyeblink. |
| 19:29.55 | Dagmar | ...and the lawsuit would be valid. |
| 19:30.01 | alestane | And the forums have their own policy, which will almost certainly be modified to announce these pints. |
| 19:30.03 | cbreak | worse than sued |
| 19:30.10 | cbreak | it would be illegal |
| 19:30.13 | Dagmar | Yep |
| 19:30.25 | alestane | It would be a breach of contract at most, I think. |
| 19:30.34 | cbreak | nah |
| 19:30.42 | cbreak | serious violation of privacy laws |
| 19:30.44 | Dagmar | Class action lawyer-roaches would be crawling out of the woodwork |
| 19:30.47 | Jamash | the news has just hit /. |
| 19:30.51 | Dagmar | Oh wow |
| 19:31.00 | Dagmar | mimes "Avalanche!" |
| 19:31.04 | cbreak | companies aren't allowed to share customer data with other companies. and posting them on the web certainly is sharing with other companies |
| 19:31.09 | alestane | The only privacy law I'm actually familiar with is HIPPA. |
| 19:31.16 | Dagmar | cbreak: Well, based on their privacy policy |
| 19:31.20 | alestane | Most of the rest comes from their stated policies. |
| 19:31.31 | cbreak | privacy policies aren't really relevant |
| 19:31.34 | cbreak | if they violate the law |
| 19:31.36 | alestane | Which are probably governed under civil law, not criminal. |
| 19:31.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Archarodim (HydraIRC@lev92-4-88-164-134-95.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 19:32.06 | Lunessa | alestane: HIPPA doesn't apply here unless Blizzard is going to post health data. :P |
| 19:32.14 | alestane | Right. |
| 19:32.26 | Kraps | I should point out that showing a real first and last name doesn't provide any one the right to then seek out additional information on that name and post it here. That has been and will continue to be a violation of the forum code of conduct, and so bans and what have you are incoming. Fair warning. |
| 19:32.32 | durcyn | Lunessa: "All of our customers are fat nerds." counts, natch? |
| 19:32.35 | Kraps | no just no |
| 19:32.35 | Maldivia | never seen a wow forum thread grow so fasr |
| 19:32.48 | Lunessa | durcyn: well, I am a fat nerd... |
| 19:32.50 | alestane | That is the only case I know where actual criminal law covers information dispersal. |
| 19:32.54 | Dagmar | Either way, they're bundling some PII giveaways as a requirement to use the forums, which makes *Facebook* look privacy-friendly |
| 19:32.54 | olafski | the philosophy behind the forum changes seems good |
| 19:32.58 | Dagmar | This ia major fuckup |
| 19:33.03 | durcyn | Lunessa: me too! |
| 19:33.32 | Lunessa | alestane: There are a few others, mostly relating to minors. |
| 19:33.41 | Lunessa | But the laws vary from state to state. |
| 19:33.41 | Cloudwolf | dagmar realid was a minor fuck up |
| 19:33.43 | alestane | Granted. |
| 19:33.48 | Cloudwolf | this is beyond a major fuckup |
| 19:33.51 | Kraps | 203 pages |
| 19:33.52 | Dagmar | Kraps: That would be one reason why it's dumb for htem to do this, and why _privacy_ is needed |
| 19:34.13 | Maldivia | Kraps: yeah, and we're talking in less than 3.5 hours :P |
| 19:34.18 | Dagmar | Cloudwofl: RealID was actually fine, if more players had _actual friends_ |
| 19:34.31 | Cloudwolf | true dagmar |
| 19:34.43 | Dagmar | The only problem there was all the fucking morons who think that all 3,947 of their twitter followers count as "friends" |
| 19:34.44 | alestane | As devil's advocate, I will point out that the fact that hundreds of people think something is stupid, does not make them correct. |
| 19:34.45 | Cloudwolf | but no many people here would acutaly use realid with real friends due to having other means to communicate |
| 19:34.45 | cbreak | why? they already have IM |
| 19:34.49 | Kraps | Dagmar: Bashiok posted his real name, and when people started posting stuff close to home he wrote that |
| 19:35.07 | Kraps | fucking wallbagers |
| 19:35.22 | Kraps | bangers* |
| 19:35.37 | Dagmar | Cloudwolf: Those mechanisms require you to ALT-TAB or run WoW in a window |
| 19:36.00 | Jamash | or use xfire in game chat |
| 19:36.03 | Cloudwolf | dagmar |
| 19:36.06 | nevcairiel | if realid would like integrate into xmpp, it would be kinda awesome :p |
| 19:36.07 | Cloudwolf | or use xfire |
| 19:36.08 | Jamash | or steam |
| 19:36.09 | Cloudwolf | or use you know |
| 19:36.10 | Cloudwolf | a phone? |
| 19:36.10 | alestane | The changes to Life Tap generated at least that much traffic, Kraps, although perhaps not that fast. Forum traffic and public opinion are not direct metrics of intelligence or correctness. |
| 19:36.17 | Cloudwolf | if i know some one well enough to give them my login email |
| 19:36.24 | Cloudwolf | i prolly got their freaking phone number already |
| 19:36.37 | alestane | I think that's part of the point. How much of the traffic on the forums right now is actually worth anything? |
| 19:36.42 | nevcairiel | dont have to give them your email, just get them to give you theirs! |
| 19:36.44 | Dagmar | Cloudwolf: yet cell phone minutes are not necessarily free |
| 19:36.50 | nevcairiel | or hook them up through friends-friends |
| 19:36.52 | Dagmar | Please, leave this to people who understand integration |
| 19:36.54 | *** join/#wowuidev taroven|Grr (~taroven|C@HW-ESR1-208-102-8-69.fuse.net) |
| 19:37.21 | nevcairiel | alestane: none |
| 19:37.37 | alestane | So what do we actually stand to lose? |
| 19:37.54 | olafski | nevcairiel: xmpp would be nice :) |
| 19:37.55 | Cairenn | Dagmar: I would really appreciate it if you would stop telling others that they have no right to voice their thoughts |
| 19:38.00 | Maldivia | alestane: so what you're saying is, that this is all just a big coverup for an unwanted game changed being announced next week ? :) |
| 19:38.30 | Jelly|Laptop | pets Cairenn. |
| 19:38.30 | cbreak | it's almost impossible to get information that is on the net back out. |
| 19:38.37 | cbreak | so extreme care should be taken with what is released |
| 19:38.54 | olafski | joins jelly|laptop |
| 19:39.00 | Cairenn | purrs |
| 19:39.15 | olafski | no actually let's just make mine a pat :P |
| 19:39.19 | Dagmar | Meh. Not like I make a habit of it |
| 19:39.25 | alestane | http://xkcd.com/258/ , Maldivia. can't stop you from drawing that conclusion. |
| 19:39.28 | Cairenn | ... |
| 19:39.56 | cog|work | ~dagma |
| 19:39.57 | purl | methinks dagma is a belief held by dagmar without evidence |
| 19:40.07 | Dagmar | ...and I tolerate that |
| 19:40.12 | Kraps | alestane: you think the leader of Anonymous and /b/ veterans give a shit if people know their real name? no, its the people and companies who they hurt that suffer |
| 19:40.55 | Jamash | did you know that you can browse the web in wow set to fullscreen by launching it through steam and using the steam overlay? |
| 19:41.13 | mikma | i am voicing my thoughts: dagmar is a huge cock with small penis. |
| 19:41.38 | Torhal | mikma: So he's a large penis with a smaller, attached, penis? |
| 19:41.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Pytlask (c64a263b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.74.38.59) |
| 19:41.46 | alestane | I'm not going to unequivocally support the new policy any more than I did the add-on policy. What I will generally backlash against is what I perceive as dogmatic insistence. |
| 19:41.53 | Cide | local old = BNGetFriendInfo; local function fix(a, b, c, ...) return a, "John", "Doe", ...; end function BNGetFriendInfo(id) return fix(old(id)); end |
| 19:41.55 | mikma | torhal: no no, a cock |
| 19:42.05 | Cide | put that in the addon !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!BNetFix |
| 19:42.08 | mikma | torhal: gthe animal that always stands on the dump-pile |
| 19:42.12 | Maldivia | alestane: :) |
| 19:42.29 | Maldivia | alestane: (but just wait and see!... heh) |
| 19:42.50 | alestane | I do suspect that this will noticeably reduce forum traffic, and unfortunately, it won't surprise me if much of the lost traffic is from intelligent people like Peppy and Lunessa. |
| 19:43.21 | Lunessa | I will almost certainly stop posting if the changes are as announced. |
| 19:43.34 | Cide | why? |
| 19:43.38 | Cide | your real name is in your whois anyway |
| 19:43.40 | Cide | Anonymous User |
| 19:44.10 | alestane | But I suspect that the principle reason why this will turn out to be a bad decision is because of emotional backlash against the policy, not because of real endangerment. |
| 19:44.16 | mikma | boring, ZZZzzz... -> |
| 19:44.39 | Kraps | from where i'm sitting, this goes against almost everything i have ever learned about internet safety/privacy |
| 19:44.49 | Lunessa | Cide: I don't hide who I am on the internet completely. My LJ and Facebook accounts are under my name, and Google will give you lots of hits for me. |
| 19:44.53 | Lopeppeppy | alestane, don't judge the "reality" of endangerment. |
| 19:44.57 | Lunessa | But I don't relish the extra attention. |
| 19:45.09 | Ackis | "Antiarc is writing a proof-of-concept addon right now. (note: you would have to INSTALL the addon, it can't just pull data.)" |
| 19:45.14 | Ackis | Antiarc: are you up to no good? :P |
| 19:45.25 | alestane | I do not deny that the exposure of real names is a potential vector for abuse, Peppy. |
| 19:45.32 | Cide | Lunessa, I was kidding :) see above |
| 19:45.41 | Lunessa | CIde: :) |
| 19:45.46 | Lopeppeppy | You imply that endangerment is fake. Consider your words more carefully. |
| 19:45.48 | Cide | it was funnay |
| 19:45.49 | alestane | I simply don't think it's likely to be realized anywhere near as much as people fearmonger. |
| 19:45.55 | Pytlask | Ackis: Proof of concept for what? o.O |
| 19:45.59 | Lunessa | Cide: It was funnay! |
| 19:46.26 | Lopeppeppy | And if I'm a fearmonger, bite me. I'm tired of being told it's not okay to be afraid of having my ex's fiancee harass me again. |
| 19:46.36 | Ackis | Pytlask: the get your friends Real ID's w/o having it set up or something |
| 19:46.39 | Ackis | bites Lopeppeppy |
| 19:46.43 | Ackis | tastes like redhead! |
| 19:46.50 | alestane | I was not including you in that statement, either. |
| 19:46.54 | alestane | I am aware of your issues. |
| 19:47.18 | Antiarc | What, who said that, Ackis? |
| 19:47.21 | alestane | As I said outside this board, I expect to see you resign your office before or when this change goes live. |
| 19:47.46 | Ackis | Antiarc: someone on twitter: https://twitter.com/Rilgon/status/17890862794 |
| 19:47.54 | Ackis | (secure twitter to protect your real ID) |
| 19:47.55 | Antiarc | That's protected |
| 19:48.06 | Ackis | derp |
| 19:48.09 | Ackis | https://twitter.com/StratFu/status/17890969426 |
| 19:48.11 | Antiarc | Well no, I'm not doing anything like that. |
| 19:48.20 | Lopeppeppy | Very derp. Argh. Drama is dramatic. I need more water. |
| 19:48.28 | Lopeppeppy | Sorry alestane. Not fair to you. *hug* |
| 19:48.58 | Kraps | anyone else you want to include in the "i know this is bad for you but for everyone else its cool" category? |
| 19:49.06 | cbreak | hmm... the battle.net ToU doesn't require you to actually put in your real name |
| 19:49.27 | alestane | Let me rephrase: I think that emotional response will be a more powerful driving factor in the response than any actual dangers (the existence of which I do not deny). |
| 19:49.44 | Maldivia | hmm, it's really going to screw up the roleplaying forums... |
| 19:50.13 | alestane | I think that on the RP forums, they'd probably want to fold it. |
| 19:50.18 | *** part/#wowuidev Thaoky (Thaoky@110.219-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 19:51.02 | Kraps | then so be it, "emotional response" to even perceived "actual dangers" is a normal human response |
| 19:51.57 | alestane | Hiding it entirely would certainly disincentivize using the RP forums for their intended purpose, but putting it where you had to click to see it would be consonant with both the policy change and the forum guidelines. |
| 19:51.58 | Lunessa | Wait... Did Kraps actually say things in a fashion which leads me to believe he is more that 16 years old? (I kid, I kid!) |
| 19:52.20 | Kraps | Lunessa: why must you hurt me so :( |
| 19:52.31 | Ackis | Lunessa: one could say.. HOLY KRAPS amiright? |
| 19:52.33 | Lunessa | Kraps: because I care. |
| 19:52.41 | Kraps | lol XD |
| 19:52.44 | Lunessa | I look out for you, like a little brother. |
| 19:53.08 | alestane | Which raises a question...if I do something that can rationally be explained as intelligent, and it fails because people responded to it irrationally, but the irrationality of that response was predictable, who was irrational? |
| 19:53.13 | Jamash | holy crap that's a lot of valve game cosplayers http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/30316 |
| 19:53.25 | Cide | alestane, the irrational people |
| 19:53.34 | Jamash | alestane: everyone |
| 19:53.35 | Lunessa | Interestingly enough, the first page of Google results for my name only turned up my Twitter account. |
| 19:53.48 | Antiarc | First hit for my name is Twitter. |
| 19:53.49 | Cide | I'm only the second result on my real name :( |
| 19:53.57 | Cide | Antiarc, your name is Twitter? |
| 19:53.58 | Ackis | http://apps.facebook.com/xboxapp/ <-- if you have an xbox 360 and facebook go do that :P |
| 19:54.16 | Jamash | I'm the only result for my real name |
| 19:54.19 | Lunessa | Hey, my parakeet is named Twitter. |
| 19:54.37 | Antiarc | My Twitter account is the first hit for my real name :P |
| 19:55.07 | Ackis | My linkedin profile is mine |
| 19:55.25 | Ackis | followed by twitter, youtube and then facebook :P |
| 19:55.31 | Cairenn | Well ... THIS is interesting, and is much more likely to drive their decision faster than anything else: http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=ATVI |
| 19:55.38 | olafski | mine's a bunch of porn sites |
| 19:55.38 | olafski | oops |
| 19:55.41 | Maldivia | googling my name, and I get a wiki page :P |
| 19:55.46 | Cide | -1.55%? |
| 19:56.05 | Jamash | oddly enough, my wikipedia user page is the first hit for my name |
| 19:56.07 | Gnarfoz | you think many wow players are blizzard shareholders? |
| 19:56.12 | Kraps | Cairenn: saw someone say it on slashdot |
| 19:56.21 | Cide | they have gone down a fair bit consistently since june 21 |
| 19:56.33 | Dagmar | I think it's going to come down to that bluetext after the form mod posted his real name and then had to come back and threaten people over them digging up details about him on the web |
| 19:56.54 | Kraps | thank you Dagmar |
| 19:56.58 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 19:56.59 | Fisker | halp |
| 19:57.11 | Fisker | hey Antiarc |
| 19:57.17 | Maldivia | Jamash: well, I happen to share the name of a professional bicycle racer :P |
| 19:57.30 | alestane | That stock movement is not as dramatic as it looks, Cairenn, but it does show a definite trend. |
| 19:57.37 | Lunessa | They trade nearly 15 million shares daily? Wow. |
| 19:58.28 | Dagmar | At some point they're going to realize privacy is needed because without that separation, people are going to stalk forumn posters by their real names. |
| 19:58.34 | Antiarc | brb, registering wowstalk.com where you just put in someone's real name and it consolidates as much information as possible about them |
| 19:58.40 | Kraps | wouldnt now be a god time to buy? SC2 + cata |
| 19:58.48 | Antiarc | I may as well monetize the insanity! |
| 19:58.49 | Kraps | good* |
| 19:59.01 | Fisker | Nasdaq Gearscore?! |
| 19:59.04 | Fisker | elitists! |
| 19:59.08 | Lopeppeppy | Oh, you go Antiarc! |
| 19:59.20 | Lunessa | Kraps: That's not a good way to determine stock purchasing value. |
| 19:59.22 | Dagmar | Let's just say up front, BP isn't allowed in the raid |
| 19:59.34 | Antiarc | This RealID stuff is the worst thing in the history of my tenure as a gamer |
| 20:00.04 | Cide | best thing for me besides the actual games |
| 20:00.14 | Dagmar | ...as to the whois record someone talked about earlier, it's not _actually that hard_ to keep your real name out of a domain registration. |
| 20:00.25 | Cide | other than the fact that other people dislike it of course |
| 20:00.27 | Cide | which isn't ideal |
| 20:00.31 | Cide | but I like it quite a bit |
| 20:00.35 | Dagmar | Registering a domain through a hosting service is probably the easiest way |
| 20:00.46 | Antiarc | With all due respect, Cide, ever had to deal with harassment or a stalker? |
| 20:00.56 | Cide | no |
| 20:01.00 | Cide | harassment sure |
| 20:01.05 | Maldivia | Dagmar: depends where you are in the world |
| 20:01.05 | Dagmar | That would be why you don't see a need then. |
| 20:01.06 | Cide | but I'm not stalkerworthy |
| 20:01.11 | Antiarc | It's a great idea until it gets abused against you, and then it's a pretty Damn Big Deal. |
| 20:01.15 | Kraps | Sir or madam, I respectfully object to the title of your most recent post. I have found using my real name to be an uplifting experience. |
| 20:01.16 | Cide | I'm sure |
| 20:01.17 | Kraps | Respectfully, |
| 20:01.18 | Cide | hence the above |
| 20:01.18 | Kraps | Divide B. Zero III, Esq. |
| 20:01.20 | Kraps | bahahaha |
| 20:01.21 | Ackis | Cide: am I stalker worthy? |
| 20:01.26 | Cide | ask Fisker |
| 20:01.26 | Dagmar | I've had underaged girls show up on my doorstep, looking for sex. |
| 20:01.28 | Dagmar | Not a joke. |
| 20:01.34 | Cide | sure you have |
| 20:01.36 | Cide | and CIA |
| 20:01.37 | Dagmar | I've had guys show up with a knife in the parking lot of the radio station. |
| 20:01.37 | Cide | and FBI |
| 20:01.38 | Cide | and NSA |
| 20:01.38 | Ackis | Dagmar: but you paid them |
| 20:01.39 | nevcairiel | now thats bad? |
| 20:01.39 | nevcairiel | :P |
| 20:01.43 | Cide | you seem to have been through a lot Dagmar |
| 20:01.44 | Antiarc | It's a great idea in abstract, but I think that in practice it's going to be horrific, just because I've seen that particular problem in play. |
| 20:01.56 | Dagmar | Cide: You make all the jokes you like. The FBI have been at my door twice. |
| 20:02.01 | alestane | Dagmar, I do not deny the possibility of using it against, someone, but many people seem to be asserting that everyone posting on the forums WILL get harassed ro stalked as a result. |
| 20:02.05 | Cide | see? |
| 20:02.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Moonwitch (~Kelly@d51A4DB5F.access.telenet.be) |
| 20:02.14 | Cide | told you so |
| 20:02.26 | Dagmar | alestane: Not everyone, but very likely anyone who attracts the attention of a forum jackass. |
| 20:02.57 | nevcairiel | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:02.58 | Dagmar | Cide: Google my damn nym, "Dagmar d'surreal" and then tell me... how does a hacker who's been on the 'net this long AVOID run-ins with the freaking feds |
| 20:02.59 | Kraps | alestane: all they need is a blue to get stalked |
| 20:02.59 | Maldivia | lets just hope for that forum jackass his name is John Smith or something very common |
| 20:03.15 | Kraps | not everyone |
| 20:03.16 | Dagmar | I've lost freaking jobs over that crap |
| 20:03.21 | Cide | I have no interest in you Dagmar |
| 20:03.29 | Dagmar | So no, I don't really have a sense of humor about someone saying I made that up |
| 20:03.34 | Gnarfoz | but everyone does, Cide |
| 20:03.38 | Cide | nobody does |
| 20:03.41 | Cide | that's my point |
| 20:03.47 | Cide | except the fbi and underage girls apparently |
| 20:04.08 | Kraps | dagmars a hacker? |
| 20:04.13 | Dagmar | Radio station DJs get stalkers all the time |
| 20:04.23 | Dagmar | Call up a radio station that has DJs and ask 'em |
| 20:04.36 | Dagmar | I was on 91.1 for seven freaking years, 14,500w of power |
| 20:04.44 | Gnarfoz | do you miss that... power? |
| 20:04.55 | Dagmar | ...generally from midnight to either 3am or 6am depending on the time of year |
| 20:04.58 | alestane | The question becomes (and I say this without taking a position), how should harassment be handled? Accountability, or transferability? |
| 20:05.03 | Dagmar | You ABSOLUTELY get stalkers that way |
| 20:05.31 | Jamash | so Cide, your position is it's k-rad awesome super keen lollipops and sunshine because you, personally, probably aren't negatively affected by it? |
| 20:05.33 | cbreak | transferability? you want to transfer the stalker to some other person? |
| 20:05.33 | Dagmar | Gnarfoz: Um... actually, yes. heh. Although part of it is that the FCC finally noticed our ERp was far higher than it was supposed to be |
| 20:05.37 | cbreak | that sounds evil |
| 20:05.39 | Cide | nah |
| 20:05.39 | nevcairiel | I dont think i've ever listend to radio between 0 and 3am |
| 20:05.42 | Cide | because I'm kinda boring |
| 20:05.46 | Cide | why would anyone stalk me? |
| 20:05.49 | alestane | I had trouble thinking of a good word for it, cbreak. |
| 20:05.54 | Jamash | so, yes, then |
| 20:06.02 | Kraps | http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1709986&cid=32815502 |
| 20:06.04 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: listen to Dagmar instead, it's almost as exciting ;) |
| 20:06.11 | Dagmar | nevcariel: That's because mainly only people with crap job schedules or a penchant for drugs are up listening to the radio then. I was catering to both groups |
| 20:06.26 | alestane | I meant the method of escaping harassment by discarding the identity being harassed. |
| 20:06.35 | Kraps | http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/25712374892/will-blues-also-post-with-their-real-names/ |
| 20:06.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (~chatzilla@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 20:06.59 | Dagmar | Kraps: Mia Lina is another one. She plays in Malganis |
| 20:07.13 | Dagmar | She's BOUND to get stalked |
| 20:07.25 | Dagmar | Pornstar in WoW and teenaged boys? Sheesh |
| 20:07.33 | nevcairiel | But people already know her name |
| 20:07.37 | nevcairiel | that won't change stuff :P |
| 20:07.43 | Dagmar | Yeah but they don't know what toon she's on |
| 20:07.45 | Gnarfoz | if that's her real name, because her screen name is Mia Rose |
| 20:07.59 | Fisker | old Kraps |
| 20:08.10 | nevcairiel | Dagmar: that would even improve with realid, you can configure it to now show any toon with your post :d |
| 20:08.11 | alestane | I do think that the change is likely to incentivize people approaching the system dishonestly, which is an indicator that it may not be well thought out. |
| 20:08.18 | nevcairiel | not show* |
| 20:08.46 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: besides http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Mal%27Ganis&n=Miarose |
| 20:08.51 | Dagmar | nevcariel: Either way, she's in a profession some people find objectionable |
| 20:08.52 | Gnarfoz | not hard to figure out when she's on THAT char. |
| 20:09.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Pneumatus (~WiN@81.174.255.133) |
| 20:09.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Pneumatus (~WiN@unaffiliated/pneumatus) |
| 20:09.18 | Gnarfoz | and she's not "in" that profession anymore, last I heard (from EJB that is, I only ever heard of here from there anyway) |
| 20:09.31 | Dagmar | But hey... I'm sure as soon as the blues start getting phone calls in the middle of the night, this crap will change with a quickness |
| 20:09.44 | Gnarfoz | (might have gotten that part wrong, tho.) |
| 20:09.52 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: you'll be one of the callers, I'm sure |
| 20:09.53 | nevcairiel | names of the devs are already in the credits of the game |
| 20:09.54 | Dagmar | Anonymity != privacy, and they're tossing both out the window |
| 20:10.06 | Dagmar | Gnarfoz: I damn well might just to prove the point |
| 20:10.08 | nevcairiel | key devs are well known by name |
| 20:10.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 20:10.42 | tem | well |
| 20:10.47 | nevcairiel | people like GC even have wowwiki pages |
| 20:10.50 | nevcairiel | with their real name |
| 20:10.54 | Gnarfoz | not surprising, because you paint everyone (or at least enough people for it be a nuisance) to be quite the jackasses. |
| 20:10.55 | Dagmar | That was their choice. |
| 20:10.58 | tem | this new RID on the forums thing is interesting |
| 20:11.06 | tem | I like the way it will kill trolling |
| 20:11.15 | Gnarfoz | also, you kind of seem to be one, too, but that's not really new, either. |
| 20:11.18 | Gnarfoz | shrugs |
| 20:11.25 | Antiarc | tem: The phrase "baby with the bathwater" comes to mind |
| 20:11.32 | tem | well |
| 20:11.32 | Dagmar | Gnarfox: At least I stand behind the things I say |
| 20:11.39 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: and you fail to fuckin nickcomplete |
| 20:11.49 | Jamash | I dunno, as Micah pointed out, their names are already in the manual |
| 20:11.50 | tem | I'm not sure how I feel about the RID part |
| 20:12.02 | tem | but the other features they described sound rather nice |
| 20:12.10 | Gnarfoz | do you address people with wrong names intentionally IRL, too? ~ |
| 20:12.17 | Dagmar | Jamash: Yeah, but what about the CMs. Their names aren't in the manual? |
| 20:12.29 | Dagmar | Gnarfox: Do you actually expect that sort of argument will go somewhere? |
| 20:12.34 | tem | I'm really looking fowrard to being able to up and downvote posts by retards |
| 20:12.35 | Dagmar | You'll note I don't make those kinds |
| 20:12.48 | Gnarfoz | uhm |
| 20:12.51 | tem | and real conversation threading is going to be nice |
| 20:13.13 | Gnarfoz | you make a lot of things, mostly you make yourself (and your opinions) sound more important than you are |
| 20:13.25 | Kraps | tem: they should just use that without this other BS |
| 20:13.40 | tem | I'd prefer they let you set a main character |
| 20:13.43 | tem | and all posts link to that |
| 20:13.52 | tem | without the real-name bit |
| 20:14.01 | tem | so you still have some accountability |
| 20:14.03 | Antiarc | They could just let you see all characters on an account without sharing your real name |
| 20:14.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Schnaks (~Schnaks@p4FC4CA64.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:14.19 | Antiarc | That would give as much accountability as needed to cut down spam/trolling without compromising personal privacy/safety |
| 20:14.19 | tem | now that I'd prefer to they not release |
| 20:14.20 | nevcairiel | Now that would break privacy |
| 20:14.21 | Gnarfoz | Antiarc: that's about equivalent to forcing a main name |
| 20:14.26 | nevcairiel | they never had an ability to link chars to accounts |
| 20:14.27 | tem | I have characters that I hide from people on |
| 20:14.53 | nevcairiel | Just force one alias for real id, freely chosen or from one character |
| 20:14.54 | Ackis | Antiarc: have you played star trek online or champions online (Cryptic games)? They let you do a real ID type thing where you pick your pseudonym... so you're Char@Account essentially, or Ackis@Ackis if you're unoriginal |
| 20:15.31 | Gnarfoz | that's what most sane people have concluded would be a good compromise |
| 20:15.34 | Antiarc | Yeah, I've seen that |
| 20:15.40 | Antiarc | And that would be 100% a-ok |
| 20:15.45 | Gnarfoz | too bad blizzard is fucking nuts about real names, apparently. |
| 20:15.52 | Antiarc | Kotick'd |
| 20:15.57 | Gnarfoz | blah. |
| 20:16.17 | Ackis | I've had too many issues with stalkers and shit in these online games, this real ID thing is neat, but just opens up too many worms for me to deal with =/ |
| 20:16.22 | nevcairiel | We should instead ridicule apple some more for their antenna fail |
| 20:16.25 | nevcairiel | its alot more fun to talk about |
| 20:16.36 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: or GER:NED coming up soon |
| 20:16.52 | nevcairiel | Gnarfoz: but the octupus said esp wins |
| 20:16.53 | Gnarfoz | wait, that's not 100% sure, yet ;D |
| 20:16.57 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 20:17.03 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: well, it also said Germany would win EM 2008 |
| 20:17.06 | Gnarfoz | but Spain did |
| 20:17.14 | Gnarfoz | this time it'll be the other way around ;p |
| 20:17.48 | Gnarfoz | Antiarc: apropos RealID, Chris Heald is you, right? |
| 20:17.48 | A-KO | 41C :P |
| 20:17.56 | nevcairiel | thats him |
| 20:18.01 | Antiarc | Gnarfoz: Yup. |
| 20:18.02 | Gnarfoz | what's FlexAuth? |
| 20:18.12 | Gnarfoz | oh. "see bit.ly/something for more info" nevermind |
| 20:18.16 | Antiarc | I don't make any attempt to hide my identity online, but I get to -choose- where I reveal my full name |
| 20:18.21 | nevcairiel | 3rd party authenticator app |
| 20:18.31 | cbreak | freenetproject.org. |
| 20:18.31 | Antiarc | FlexAuth is a multi-token mobile authenticator that exposes the token secret for backup/replication |
| 20:18.41 | cbreak | probably the only way to really stay anonymous |
| 20:18.43 | Antiarc | So you aren't boned if you lose/wipe your phone, mostly |
| 20:18.47 | Gnarfoz | so it only offers benefits on a real phone |
| 20:18.53 | cbreak | but still, posting real names is reckless |
| 20:19.05 | Ackis | tried to stalk Antiarc online to xbox 360 but he ignored my friend request :( |
| 20:19.05 | nevcairiel | It defeats blizzards limitation of only allowing one authenticator per account, doesn't it |
| 20:19.07 | Antiarc | Well, you could use it to generate a token and use that token in a PHP script or whatever |
| 20:19.17 | Antiarc | No, you can still only have 1 authenticator per account |
| 20:19.17 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: you can have multiple authenticators ;) |
| 20:19.20 | Gnarfoz | what? |
| 20:19.22 | Kraps | herp derp http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25626459798&sid=1 |
| 20:19.26 | Antiarc | But if you have 2 accounts and want 2 authenticators for them it lets you do that easily |
| 20:19.29 | Antiarc | That's secondary though |
| 20:19.34 | nevcairiel | Antiarc: but can't you run the same authenticator on multiple phones? :d |
| 20:19.42 | Gnarfoz | with his app, you can |
| 20:19.45 | Antiarc | nevcairiel: You can if you have the token secret, which I expose |
| 20:19.48 | Antiarc | For example |
| 20:19.53 | nevcairiel | Which i was implying |
| 20:19.54 | Antiarc | I have a PHP script that generates auth codes for me |
| 20:20.02 | nevcairiel | You can actually account share again |
| 20:20.05 | Antiarc | So if my wife takes my phone out running (she uses the GPS to map her runs) I can still log in |
| 20:20.07 | Dagmar | Gnarfoz: So, how am I supposed to take being repeatedly insulted, exactly? |
| 20:20.32 | Dagmar | What possible kind of logical argument could you possibly be making with that? |
| 20:20.44 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: you weren't, really; you were mocked for your big-ass ego |
| 20:20.50 | Dagmar | I *get* that some people have a problem with folks who stand up for themselves. |
| 20:21.05 | Kraps | http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/5584/ghostw.jpg |
| 20:21.21 | Dagmar | ...and I *get* that some people take umbrage that other folks on the internet might well have experienced more things than that can imagine. |
| 20:21.31 | Dagmar | s/than that/than they/; |
| 20:21.44 | Dagmar | ...but it doesn't mean that you're not barking up the wrong tree. |
| 20:21.49 | nevcairiel | I also get that 99% on the internet lie to be important |
| 20:21.53 | Gnarfoz | except that they're bad things and you got yourself into them yourself. ;) |
| 20:22.05 | Dagmar | Gnarfox: Really? How so? |
| 20:22.35 | Cairenn | I'm sure I don't need to remind you guys that personal attacks aren't allowed in here, right? |
| 20:22.41 | Dagmar | I'm pretty sure that spinning records on the air is not a reasonable justification for crazies showing up |
| 20:22.57 | Jamash | ah, victim blaming |
| 20:23.03 | Gnarfoz | you said druggies were your intended audience |
| 20:23.04 | Jamash | a classic internet pasttime |
| 20:23.12 | Gnarfoz | (or part of it) |
| 20:23.26 | Torhal | Cairenn: What about personnel attacks? |
| 20:23.27 | Dagmar | I'm also pretty sure that winding up on the news saying the state's IT security is a complete farce, when six months of telling them directly wasn't working, is also not quite reasonable |
| 20:23.31 | Gnarfoz | but I digress, you were talking to Gnarfox, not me ;) |
| 20:24.10 | Jamash | My dad got a death threat once for being opposed to _email spam_ |
| 20:24.11 | Dagmar | ...and now more trollery. |
| 20:24.15 | Dagmar | Welcome to the ignore list |
| 20:24.36 | Kraps | Torhal: idk, comcast... |
| 20:24.38 | Kraps | :p |
| 20:24.51 | eidolarr | there is a lot of unjustified aggression and insulting here, i chalk it up to people on the internet |
| 20:24.53 | Gnarfoz | see, people thinking it necessary to tell people they're ignoring 90% of the time are not ignoring them at all; or have serious attention deficits. ;) |
| 20:25.19 | Kraps | eidolarr: i dont agree |
| 20:25.49 | Gnarfoz | so Antiarc, if I might abuse you as a FAQ; there's no way I can have a "backup authenticator" without using yours (or a sandboxed blizzard one) as my one and only authenticator? |
| 20:26.01 | Jamash | the forum thread is up to page 274 |
| 20:26.10 | Antiarc | Gnarfoz: I wrote it because there wasn't :) |
| 20:26.20 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@d86-33-7-18.cust.tele2.at) |
| 20:26.26 | Gnarfoz | meh, I have a feature phone |
| 20:26.51 | Gnarfoz | and I'll probably not start the SDK emulator every time I want to log into wow |
| 20:27.04 | Gnarfoz | so I'll wait for the battery to die on my keyfob |
| 20:27.37 | Jamash | I got a free auth at blizzcon a few years ago, still going strong |
| 20:27.41 | nevcairiel | feature phone? You mean, a phone which only feature is to phone? |
| 20:27.53 | Dagmar | I think I've got it... The nature of the users on the forums that they're attempting to correct is the very reason why they should not throw privacy out. Otherwise it's literally a baby and bathwater problem. |
| 20:28.15 | frontendloader | Gnarfoz: can't you add multiple authenticators to the same account? |
| 20:28.19 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: apparently, that's the retrospectively developed word for "not a smartphone" |
| 20:28.24 | nevcairiel | frontendloader: no |
| 20:28.33 | nevcairiel | dumbphone, imho |
| 20:28.33 | Jamash | US realms are up |
| 20:28.36 | Gnarfoz | frontendloader: although there's some flaming going on above, please read scrollback :D |
| 20:29.15 | eidolarr | Dagmar: how can it literally be a baby and bathwater problem |
| 20:29.20 | Antiarc | frontendloader: No, you can't attach multiple authenticators to a single account |
| 20:29.22 | eidolarr | babeis and bathwater have nothing to do with it |
| 20:29.43 | Antiarc | Blizzard is throwing out babies now!? |
| 20:29.44 | Kraps | i know whats going on: this is a prelude to blizzard selling gold and gear! |
| 20:30.04 | frontendloader | sadly in that vein Kraps, the one guy who runs GDKPs on my realm got banned this week |
| 20:30.11 | frontendloader | for "exploitation of the economy" |
| 20:30.19 | Kraps | oof |
| 20:30.20 | frontendloader | from what I understand he probably was handling a LOT of bought gold from his clients |
| 20:30.30 | eidolarr | clients? |
| 20:30.38 | frontendloader | the people that come to the runs |
| 20:30.40 | frontendloader | to buy gear |
| 20:31.32 | eidolarr | oh, that's... not surprising haha |
| 20:31.53 | Dagmar | eidolarr: Because the people who would likely to say things which need to be said will attract trolls who will then run them off |
| 20:32.02 | Dagmar | So, baby... bathwater. |
| 20:32.34 | Dagmar | ...because said trolls will now be able to dig up people's real names and harass them in interesting and creative ways. |
| 20:32.47 | Dagmar | Like, fake MySpace and Facebook pages |
| 20:32.58 | Dagmar | ...which land in the hands of HR people who are too nosy for their own good. |
| 20:33.00 | Antiarc | Dagmar: You said "literally a baby and bathwater problem" - I don't think you literally meant "literally" :P |
| 20:33.08 | Gnarfoz | Antiarc: nobody ever does |
| 20:33.10 | Dagmar | Antiarc: Okay so figuratively. |
| 20:33.11 | durcyn | he literally meant it. |
| 20:33.13 | Antiarc | They should! |
| 20:33.25 | Kraps | is for babies |
| 20:33.25 | Antiarc | http://xkcd.com/725/ |
| 20:33.32 | Dagmar | Throwing a baby in a tub out into the grass will cause less troubloe than this |
| 20:33.59 | Dagmar | I will also stand behind the phrasing I used. I said it was "an x problem" not that "they're doing x" |
| 20:34.00 | Kraps | how far are you throwing? |
| 20:34.11 | Dagmar | So... not incorrect usage |
| 20:34.22 | eidolarr | Dagmar: what does that have to do with babies and bathwater in the literal sense |
| 20:34.44 | eidolarr | i was trying to tease that you are using "literally" emphatically rather than literally |
| 20:34.47 | durcyn | he was using it ironically, okay. |
| 20:34.48 | Dagmar | I know |
| 20:34.54 | Jamash | it was, literally, a problem that is commonly described as "baby and bathwater" |
| 20:35.16 | Gnarfoz | Jamash: there's no reason to use "literally" in that sentence at all |
| 20:35.33 | Jamash | there's no reason to say anything on the internet |
| 20:35.41 | Kraps | the Seinfeldian convos in this channel are brilliant |
| 20:35.49 | bryno | except when people are wrong |
| 20:35.57 | eidolarr | Kraps: yeah for the first 5 minutes of each maybe |
| 20:36.01 | Jamash | grumble fox pants nineteen experiment locomotion |
| 20:36.29 | Dagmar | er... wot? |
| 20:36.31 | durcyn | let's keep it clean, Jamash. |
| 20:36.46 | Jamash | sorry |
| 20:37.34 | bryno | lol |
| 20:38.08 | Mihau | Unsure if it has been posted, but: http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=25626109041&sid=3000 |
| 20:38.13 | Mihau | Damn you Blizzard. |
| 20:38.15 | foxlit | ~wowalert |
| 20:38.16 | purl | http://launcher.worldofwarcraft.com/alert (US); http://status.wow-europe.com/en/alert (EU) [NB: URL goes to 404 unless there's an active alert] |
| 20:38.52 | Kraps | Mihau: yes, yes it has been |
| 20:38.55 | Mihau | Yep, it has been. |
| 20:38.56 | Mihau | D: |
| 20:39.02 | Dagmar | Mihau: Dude, it's on Slashdot now |
| 20:39.04 | Dagmar | Heh |
| 20:39.04 | Mihau | No posting for me ever on there. |
| 20:39.24 | *** join/#wowuidev durcyn (~durcyn@WoWUIDev/Durcyn) |
| 20:40.47 | Mihau | My plan is to start scraping the forums and then scrape information collected from Google about each user. Pass the data set around... See how quickly Blizzard decides to drop it. :P |
| 20:41.15 | Dagmar | Mihau: You'll probably want to raid FB and MySpace for cross-referencing |
| 20:41.43 | Mihau | Dagmar: I think there is a tool for that with API already. :D |
| 20:41.44 | alestane | How is a system's insecurity validated by deliberate abuse |
| 20:41.53 | Dagmar | Mihau: I'm figuring they'll change their tune when blues and CMs start getting phone calls in the middle of the night. Particularly community managers |
| 20:42.02 | Jamash | alestane: Uh? |
| 20:42.18 | Dagmar | alestane: We can do it now, or we can wait until someone with no sense of self-restraint or who has _actual_ malice in mind starts up |
| 20:42.40 | Mihau | Dagmar: There is a big thread on those with gender identity issues that the community managers seemed to ignore. |
| 20:42.42 | Dagmar | At least if it's white-hat's doing it (to borrow a term) it can be stopped on demand |
| 20:42.49 | Dagmar | s/'s/s/ |
| 20:43.03 | Jamash | when one is trying to prove that a system is prone to abuse, surely abusing it is a valid technique? |
| 20:43.11 | Dagmar | regexp fail |
| 20:43.16 | cbreak | yes. |
| 20:43.18 | Mihau | Jamash: It works against Apple and Microsoft. |
| 20:43.27 | cbreak | demonstrating flaws is the first step to get them fixed |
| 20:43.47 | Jamash | ok time to go play D&D |
| 20:43.50 | cbreak | just look at how adobe scrambles all the time to fix their flash/acrobat/... security hole of the week :) |
| 20:44.10 | Jamash | I was responding to Alestane's comment "How is a system's insecurity validated by deliberate abuse" |
| 20:44.53 | Kraps | i hope this guy has cool sunglasses http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25626349548&sid=1&pageNo=1 |
| 20:45.10 | Kraps | no he doesnt http://www.okcupid.com/profile/theyellowone |
| 20:45.58 | Mihau | LOL, Poodles is his nick name? (See what I did there? Perfect PvP troll material.) |
| 20:46.21 | Kraps | whoever was setting up a scraping service, here is your firs victim |
| 20:46.42 | Kraps | i mean client |
| 20:46.46 | Mihau | :D |
| 20:47.04 | Mihau | I just have a problem with those will be forced to use names that are not their own. |
| 20:47.08 | Kraps | http://www.wow.com/2010/07/06/security-flaw-allows-addons-to-expose-full-real-life-names-witho/ |
| 20:47.11 | alestane | Let me put it another way...how does their system's insecurity justify your abuse? |
| 20:47.30 | Mihau | alestane: To get them to change it for the greater good. |
| 20:48.00 | Mihau | Kraps: D'oh. |
| 20:48.13 | Kraps | alestane: i'm sure trolls will take that into consideration |
| 20:48.22 | Kraps | oh wait no |
| 20:48.30 | alestane | So, you're going to make stalkers' jobs easier to try and persuade Blizzard that they did it. |
| 20:48.49 | *** join/#wowuidev robokitty (~robotusch@50A2E67F.flatrate.dk) |
| 20:49.14 | Mihau | alestane: Stalkers do not need some one else's help to do what they do. They are already proficient at it.(Hard to be called a stalker if you suck at stalking.) |
| 20:49.30 | Lunessa | I wonder if I can edit my Battle.net name so I can use the short version I prefer rather than the long version which is my legal name. |
| 20:50.12 | alestane | And how much faster will they be able to respond, and how much more damage will they be able to do, if they have ready access to a cross-referenced database that's done most of their work for them? |
| 20:50.23 | Cloudwolf | lunessa i think it pulls htename form billing info i could be wrong tho. |
| 20:50.56 | Mihau | Lunessa: If you can provide legal documentation that you changed your legal name to the short version, then yes. |
| 20:50.59 | Lunessa | Cloudwolf: Yeah, I didn't bring my authenticator token to work with me. |
| 20:51.01 | alestane | I understand "proof-of-concept" attacks. But they should not be done publicly. |
| 20:51.03 | cbreak | with security holes reasonable public disclosure is widely practiced |
| 20:51.16 | Arrowmaster | no its not |
| 20:51.22 | Lunessa | But I suspect they'll let me change Matthew to Matt |
| 20:52.00 | Mihau | Lunessa: Maybe, perhaps. If you get the one person on the billing team that is lax on procedure. :D |
| 20:52.44 | Arrowmaster | Lunessa: they have never allowed anybody to change the name on the account unless it was going from parent/guardian to child that is now old enough to have their own account or because of a legally proven name change |
| 20:53.26 | cbreak | why? they don't require you to register with your real name in the first place |
| 20:53.29 | Lunessa | I'll see what I can do when I login. I hate being greeted as Matthew. |
| 20:53.39 | Mihau | For the account name, I am fucked, so I am just going to avoid posting on any Blizzard forums until they decide to allow nick names. |
| 20:54.01 | Kraps | http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/07/blizzard-post-about-starcraft-2-use-your-real-name.ars |
| 20:54.39 | Cloudwolf | cbreak again im pretty sure they pull the name from the billing info |
| 20:54.42 | Arrowmaster | cbreak: they actually do, remember when the wow arena tournament stuff just started up and there was all the stuff about anybody that wasnt able to prove they were how their account was in the name of would be automatically disqualified at events |
| 20:54.52 | Arrowmaster | s/how/who/ |
| 20:55.01 | cbreak | Cloudwolf: at least for SCII there's no billing |
| 20:55.01 | Mihau | Cloudwolf: Before Battle.net you could type in any name you could imagine. |
| 20:55.01 | Ackis | Arrowmaster: sorry about 99 nights |
| 20:55.31 | Arrowmaster | Ackis: yeah shitty XBL just randomly dropping me that one night |
| 20:55.41 | foxlit | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info15108-UltimateShamanGridLayout.html |
| 20:55.46 | foxlit | I'm annoyed by the placeholder graphic |
| 20:56.38 | Arrowmaster | im just waiting for somebody to sue blizzard over this |
| 20:56.59 | Cloudwolf | Arrowmaster will they have i case i don't think they will |
| 20:57.01 | Arrowmaster | i mean its not like facebook where when you signup you know you are giving out your real name |
| 20:57.28 | Cloudwolf | Arrow master they said that all posts before the change will stay the same |
| 20:57.38 | Cloudwolf | new posts after wll display name andyou will have to accept hte new TOS |
| 20:57.40 | Lunessa | foxlit: http://s.wowinterface.com/preview/pvw37843.jpg - shitty UI is shitty anyway. |
| 20:57.43 | foxlit | Arrowmaster: rest assured your very first post will be greeted by |
| 20:58.01 | foxlit | "ZOMG YOU'RE ABOUT TO REVEAL YOUR NAME TO THE WORLD. CLICK OKAY TO POST YOUR WHINE ABOUT OVERPOWERED WARLOCKS" |
| 20:58.06 | nevcairiel | They said there will be ample warning that it will be showing your real name |
| 20:58.16 | *** join/#wowuidev SeanK (~SeanK@pool-98-117-120-73.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 20:58.23 | nevcairiel | I'm sure they have their legal things figured out |
| 20:58.42 | foxlit | ew, bossmod |
| 20:58.53 | Arrowmaster | but still, if you dont want your name to be revealed it means you are excluded from certain services that you are paying for |
| 20:58.59 | Ackis | the sad thing is, that it will take someone getting hurt before anything is done |
| 20:59.06 | nevcairiel | You're paying to play the game |
| 20:59.10 | nevcairiel | not troll on a forum |
| 20:59.11 | nevcairiel | tbh |
| 20:59.25 | nevcairiel | Ackis: lets fake it, then! |
| 20:59.25 | Ackis | you have a CS issue, they say to post on the forums -> you get stalked -> you get murdered -> blizz is responsible |
| 20:59.44 | Arrowmaster | yeah just waiting for the first person to go nuts, look up somebodys address from their name and go hurt or kill them over something they did in game or on the forums |
| 20:59.45 | Cairenn | foxlit: I only allowed it because it is a plugin to an existing project |
| 20:59.50 | Arrowmaster | then it will be changed instantly |
| 20:59.56 | Ackis | remember, blizz has an open CS forum, which is retarded |
| 21:00.16 | foxlit | Cairenn: sec |
| 21:00.25 | Ackis | fyi: free steam game: http://store.steampowered.com/app/39000/ |
| 21:00.44 | nevcairiel | Ackis: wth is that |
| 21:01.03 | nevcairiel | doesnt seem worth taking, even for free |
| 21:01.04 | Arrowmaster | Ackis: good point, being denied customer service because you dont want to reveal your real name to the world cant be legal |
| 21:01.56 | Kraps | Arrowmaster: http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/25712374892/will-blues-also-post-with-their-real-names/ |
| 21:02.22 | cbreak | blizzard has customer service? |
| 21:02.23 | Kraps | read bashioks responses carefully |
| 21:02.37 | nevcairiel | GMs can usually fix all your problems, except account related things |
| 21:02.43 | nevcairiel | for which there is email and phone support |
| 21:03.51 | Kraps | Ackis: A mmorpg? |
| 21:04.48 | durcyn | Kraps: an mmorpg from 1999 that you never heard of and is still around, obviously. |
| 21:05.18 | cbreak | massively lies in the eye of the beholder I guess |
| 21:05.21 | smcn | UO? :P |
| 21:06.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Legorol (~legorol@cpc8-sgyl28-2-0-cust43.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 21:06.20 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Legorol] by ChanServ |
| 21:06.29 | Ackis | nevcairiel: quite often I was told to hit the forums for help |
| 21:06.36 | Ackis | Kraps: it's a free game from nasa I think |
| 21:06.41 | Kraps | "With the launch of the new Battle.net, itâs important to us to create a new and different kind of online gaming environment â one thatâs highly social, and which provides an ideal place for gamers to form long-lasting, meaningful relationships. " |
| 21:06.51 | Kraps | i dont need that! |
| 21:06.57 | durcyn | Kraps: "...with our advertisers." |
| 21:07.02 | Lunessa | Kraps: You might meet a woman. |
| 21:07.12 | Kraps | LUNESSSSSSSA |
| 21:07.13 | Lunessa | Who wants to sell you things. |
| 21:07.22 | Kraps | Susan? |
| 21:07.26 | Lunessa | But who is really a 400lb man. |
| 21:07.34 | Kraps | yes |
| 21:08.15 | cbreak | Starcraft is one of the least social non-single-player games I've seen |
| 21:08.30 | Mihau | Kraps: That thread is great with them posting all of Bashiok's information. |
| 21:08.38 | cbreak | in beta, almost no one ever used the in-game chat for more than a few rude random letters like |
| 21:08.48 | cbreak | glhf gg |
| 21:08.50 | Mihau | Kraps: Granted, Blizzard employees may not care since they are already well publicized. |
| 21:09.04 | Kraps | Mihau: oh they will care |
| 21:09.05 | nevcairiel | glhf are rude? |
| 21:09.10 | Arrowmaster | they also have corporate lawyers to protect them |
| 21:09.28 | nevcairiel | Kraps: their names are already known, most more active ones have wowwiki pages |
| 21:09.31 | cbreak | nevcairiel: I am sure it's something rude |
| 21:09.54 | Ackis | good luck have fun |
| 21:10.09 | nevcairiel | gg = good game |
| 21:11.32 | eidolarr | cbreak: the starcraft community exists outside of the game, especially in sc2, because it has to |
| 21:11.36 | cog|work | rudely wishes cbreak good luck and fun having |
| 21:12.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Moonwitch (~Kelly@d51A4DB5F.access.telenet.be) |
| 21:12.34 | cog|work | cbreak: also, HoN is wors |
| 21:12.37 | cog|work | worse* |
| 21:13.40 | foxlit | Cairenn went poof :( |
| 21:14.34 | Kraps | whoa http://blogs.courierpostonline.com/worldofwarcraft/2010/07/06/more-realid-woes-personal-info-posted-on-wow-forums/#comment-3174 |
| 21:15.15 | Mihau | Kraps: Is that a mildly respectable news paper? |
| 21:15.41 | nevcairiel | its a blog, nothing respectable writes blogs |
| 21:15.44 | Kraps | i dont live in jersey :p |
| 21:15.54 | Kraps | nevcairiel: orly |
| 21:16.48 | nevcairiel | yarly |
| 21:17.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Xyphoid (proxyuser@unaffiliated/xyphoid) |
| 21:17.39 | Kraps | http://blogs.wsj.com/ |
| 21:17.41 | cbreak | bruce schneier has a blog |
| 21:17.58 | Kraps | who? |
| 21:17.59 | Ackis | he also has a mailing list |
| 21:17.59 | cbreak | and he factorizes RSA keys with his thights |
| 21:18.08 | Ackis | you don't know who bruce is? |
| 21:18.22 | Kraps | no? |
| 21:18.50 | Ackis | security expert |
| 21:18.52 | cbreak | bruce schneier is the only being that can break One Time Pad encrypted cypthertext |
| 21:19.08 | cbreak | with his fists. |
| 21:19.10 | Fierceflame | Would someone like to review my(finally finished) code and give me feedback about how stuff can be done better/different and about my coding style? Is it readable, etc. Code: http://toptop18.pastey.net/138364 |
| 21:19.34 | Cloudwolf | lol who ever posted that one thing about corey zerf google his name the 4th link XD |
| 21:19.43 | Dagmar | If you cross him, he'll get in the bomber on the front of the Big Red Crypto book and come blow up your ice creams. |
| 21:20.05 | Kraps | oh shit |
| 21:20.14 | Kraps | Cloudwolf |
| 21:20.29 | Cloudwolf | yes kraps? |
| 21:20.33 | Kraps | oh shit |
| 21:20.42 | Cloudwolf | heh |
| 21:21.03 | Kraps | http://thenoobcomic.com/index.php?pos=378 |
| 21:21.06 | Dagmar | Kraps: I don't know if they're lying or not, but I'm not terribly suprised it's a green poster commenting negatively as comment #1 |
| 21:22.33 | Ackis | won a $5 code off of twitter /cheer |
| 21:22.42 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI|work (~KarlKFI|w@adcom005v.adcom.uci.edu) |
| 21:22.53 | Cloudwolf | $5 code for what? |
| 21:23.33 | Cloudwolf | awwwwww the dude giving out his info pos thas been deleted |
| 21:24.13 | Ackis | Toy Soldiers expansion on XBLA |
| 21:25.02 | Kraps | wonders if this is worse than blizz selling end-game gear |
| 21:25.03 | Ackis | guess tonight I'm playing Dragon Age DLC & Toy Soldiers /cheer |
| 21:25.05 | Kraps | Ackis: i couldnt get into DA |
| 21:25.11 | Kraps | idk why |
| 21:25.28 | Ackis | I like it, their DLC for it is kinda terrible however (IMO)... too short |
| 21:26.26 | Kraps | i like it theory but i think i'm comparing it to mass effect |
| 21:26.58 | Kraps | i think the silent PC turns me off |
| 21:26.59 | Ackis | I like it more than ME2 |
| 21:27.18 | Kraps | really |
| 21:27.39 | Ackis | aye |
| 21:27.48 | Ackis | otherwise I wouldn't have said it |
| 21:28.13 | Dagmar | Kraps: Don't you blaspheme against The Freeman |
| 21:28.23 | Kraps | the wut |
| 21:28.33 | Dagmar | Gordon Freeman. |
| 21:28.43 | Ackis | meh |
| 21:28.47 | Dagmar | A man of few words, but many crazy weapons. |
| 21:28.58 | Ackis | if only he could finish his story arc :( |
| 21:29.03 | Kraps | i didnt O_O |
| 21:29.17 | Kraps | blaspheme |
| 21:29.27 | Kraps | oic |
| 21:29.36 | Kraps | well |
| 21:29.45 | Kraps | i'll have to see |
| 21:30.01 | Kraps | in the middle of Max Payne 2 now |
| 21:30.31 | durcyn | make sure you watch the movie after |
| 21:30.36 | Ackis | http://bit.ly/fx4beta1 firefox 4 beta 1 |
| 21:30.56 | Cloudwolf | the sticky thread is almost at 7000 posts lol |
| 21:31.20 | Kraps | Ackis: no thanks @ beta |
| 21:31.36 | Kraps | i had a vista beta once |
| 21:31.42 | Kraps | it was hellish |
| 21:32.36 | Kraps | also this is just wrong http://blog.mozilla.com/files/2010/07/feedback-button.png |
| 21:32.52 | nevcairiel | i think its kinda funny |
| 21:32.57 | nevcairiel | user-compatible feedback |
| 21:32.59 | durcyn | "Firefox made me happy because it showed me naked ladies." |
| 21:33.27 | nevcairiel | it'll of course be gone in the final version which those users get :p |
| 21:33.38 | Kraps | i know |
| 21:34.03 | durcyn | they finally merged the reload/stop buttons, that only took two years |
| 21:34.59 | Arrowmaster | why would they do that? |
| 21:35.17 | Arrowmaster | i hope i can disable it |
| 21:36.15 | durcyn | what, why |
| 21:36.23 | durcyn | how could you possibly need both of those actions in a single context |
| 21:36.29 | malreth | 1) it's less clutter and 2) you can't 'stop' a page once it's done loading |
| 21:36.55 | Arrowmaster | actually i have seen pages you can stop once its done loading due to shitty ajax |
| 21:37.09 | durcyn | oh, wait, they made the bookmarks button non-removable to compensate for the saved space. good job. |
| 21:37.45 | malreth | Arrowmaster: in that case, the button would show a 'stop' icon |
| 21:38.00 | Kraps | durcyn: lol |
| 21:38.19 | Arrowmaster | i think some of those pages with shitty ajax didnt even stop when the stop button was pressed |
| 21:38.53 | durcyn | and you've had the need to manually click the reload button on said pages, somehow |
| 21:39.02 | Arrowmaster | yes |
| 21:39.10 | durcyn | maybe i'm strange, but i just use it as a visual indicator and use esc/f5/ctrl-r/whatever |
| 21:39.16 | Ackis | https://twitter.com/BlizzardPR/status/17898001434 |
| 21:39.29 | durcyn | tell me that's a joke account. |
| 21:39.49 | Shadowed | BlizzardPR is pretty funny |
| 21:39.51 | Kraps | thats cold |
| 21:40.59 | malreth | BlizzardPR is too chatty... you're not supposed to blow your wad of twitter jokes all on the first day. |
| 21:41.45 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (smcn@c-174-52-104-121.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:42.00 | malreth | durcyn: read the account's bio |
| 21:42.46 | Kraps | the sticky is now reading like "CONTACT YOU LOCAL POLITICIAN!" meh |
| 21:42.50 | Arrowmaster | but they are good jokes |
| 21:43.11 | Shadowed | BlizzardPR has to use up a bunch of jokes so people subscribe |
| 21:43.16 | Shadowed | then he can go to updating once every few days |
| 21:43.20 | Arrowmaster | "Been a bad boy and sold your account? Now everyone who Google's you will know you as the mouthbreather that bought it!" |
| 21:43.38 | Arrowmaster | "Want to complain about RealID? Just go ahead and post on the forums!" |
| 21:43.39 | durcyn | malreth: asked before clicking, like a goober. |
| 21:45.36 | Arrowmaster | the more button on twitter isnt working for me |
| 21:45.55 | Arrowmaster | this is why i hate javascript |
| 21:46.51 | *** join/#wowuidev odiusxpopulis (~odiusxpop@69.42.103.8) |
| 21:46.56 | Lunessa | malreth: Most people blow their Twitter-wad all at once anyway. |
| 21:47.36 | Kraps | Arrowmaster: me either |
| 21:47.55 | Cloudwolf | awsome my real id name is hte one i used when creating my battle.net account i went by an initial for my last name :D |
| 21:49.31 | cbreak | just created a new battle.net account, with in-game names. |
| 21:49.49 | cbreak | they didn't even validate the address |
| 21:49.59 | Kraps | cbreak: and then what? |
| 21:50.14 | cbreak | now I won't be bothered with my real name when I log into sc |
| 21:50.57 | Kraps | but its another account? |
| 21:51.11 | cbreak | yes. brand new. |
| 21:51.31 | Kraps | but your games are on the other one |
| 21:51.36 | cbreak | only WoW |
| 21:51.41 | cbreak | and cata |
| 21:51.45 | cbreak | and sc2 beta :( |
| 21:51.47 | cbreak | ... damnit |
| 21:51.57 | Kraps | timely http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128320119 |
| 21:52.39 | Kraps | New Biography Claims Emily Dickinson Had Epilepsy |
| 21:52.41 | Kraps | k> |
| 21:53.00 | cbreak | there are only few places on the internet with true anonymity |
| 21:53.12 | Kraps | wonders if the sticky will reach over 9000 |
| 21:53.20 | cbreak | and the and nothing you can see on public forums comes close to what's there |
| 21:54.09 | *** join/#wowuidev robokitty (~robotusch@50A2E67F.flatrate.dk) |
| 21:56.08 | Ackis | http://i.imgur.com/yWkRG.jpg |
| 21:56.11 | Ackis | lol |
| 21:56.52 | Gnarfoz | I see your http://i.imgur.com/yWkRG.jpg and raise you http://www.whatsonxiamen.com/news12345.html |
| 21:57.37 | Dagmar | We should be so lucky |
| 21:57.54 | Dagmar | With the trailer park raiders being like they are... police will be unamused |
| 21:58.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Thrae (~ircuser@generalmx-1-pt.tunnel.tserv13.ash1.ipv6.he.net) |
| 21:58.19 | cbreak | I wonder what blizzard will do with all those Gaylord people |
| 21:58.25 | Dagmar | Gaylord people? |
| 21:58.31 | cbreak | who get into trouble with xbox life |
| 21:58.32 | Gnarfoz | people named Gaylord. |
| 21:58.51 | cbreak | they can't very well change their real names |
| 21:58.57 | Dagmar | You're not talking about Gaylord Entertainment, nee Opryland USA are you |
| 21:58.58 | cbreak | (because it's very expensive to do that) |
| 21:59.07 | Kraps | fuck you Gnarfoz |
| 21:59.09 | Dagmar | Not expensive to change your name |
| 21:59.15 | durcyn | i believe the relevant quote is "Why, yes, my name actually is Dongballs Stinkmuffin, and I play using only game cards." |
| 21:59.15 | Gnarfoz | well, if Blizzard was run by Steve Jobs, he'd simply say "of course you can change your name." :p |
| 21:59.17 | cbreak | no, the general concept of people named gaylord |
| 21:59.22 | Dagmar | Explaining to your dad you no longer lkike the name he gave you... priceless |
| 21:59.30 | Cloudwolf | gnarfoz.... thats sad |
| 21:59.44 | Gnarfoz | Cloudwolf: what, don't hold your phone that way! :P |
| 22:00.03 | Cloudwolf | no the baby story gnarfoz |
| 22:00.03 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 22:00.08 | Gnarfoz | Cloudwolf: oh, that |
| 22:00.12 | Cloudwolf | f*ck steve jobbs |
| 22:00.17 | cog|work | no thanks Cloudwolf |
| 22:00.24 | Cloudwolf | lol |
| 22:00.25 | cbreak | you're a little gaylord too? |
| 22:00.34 | Dagmar | hehe |
| 22:00.46 | Cloudwolf | not physically but what ever... |
| 22:02.43 | Kraps | http://www.privacyinternational.org/article.shtml?cmd[347]=x-347-566439 |
| 22:04.00 | Dagmar | Well... There's some troll-bait to be sure |
| 22:04.10 | Dagmar | "If they're that mad he MUST be doing something wrong!" |
| 22:04.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Tinyboom (~nahh@c91FD653E.dhcp.bluecom.no) |
| 22:06.18 | Cloudwolf | any one know if theres a page limit on a thread on the blizzard forums lol i think its gonna hit its limit |
| 22:06.56 | cbreak | 49 or so? |
| 22:07.14 | cbreak | I've seen threads getting inconsistent at that number |
| 22:08.17 | Kraps | "i'm going to prank call all the CM's and MVP's for weeks until this is reverted." |
| 22:08.21 | Kraps | i lol'd |
| 22:09.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Legorol|alt (~legorol@cpc8-sgyl28-2-0-cust43.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 22:09.28 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Legorol|alt] by ChanServ |
| 22:10.49 | malreth | seriously, folks... Even the Terminator had to kill several other Sarah Connors before he got the right one. This whole "RealID will create IRL stalkers" thing is overrated. |
| 22:11.18 | cbreak | names are not uniformly distributed |
| 22:11.21 | KarlKFI|work | movie |
| 22:11.33 | Dagmar | malreth: Said by someone who's never been stalked. |
| 22:11.37 | malreth | ~malreth |
| 22:11.38 | purl | malreth is always right |
| 22:11.51 | cbreak | ~cbreak |
| 22:11.58 | cbreak | hey! I am always right too! |
| 22:12.03 | KarlKFI|work | cbreak is broken |
| 22:12.16 | cbreak | ~botbribe |
| 22:12.29 | KarlKFI|work | owned |
| 22:12.37 | airtonix | ~boticide |
| 22:16.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Moonwitch (~Kelly@d51A4DB5F.access.telenet.be) |
| 22:16.29 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 22:18.19 | Kraps | cbreak: what does that mean? |
| 22:18.49 | cbreak | what does what mean? |
| 22:18.55 | KarlKFI|work | _that_ |
| 22:19.11 | cbreak | that not all names are equaly common? |
| 22:19.15 | Kraps | yes |
| 22:19.43 | Adys | "Names are all equally distributed" - Mathusallah Honeysuckle |
| 22:19.50 | cbreak | it might not matter much if everyone knows that your name is John Doe, but it matters a lot if they know your name is something rare |
| 22:20.10 | airtonix | it means you're not royalty |
| 22:20.19 | Xyphoid | or mohammed hussein |
| 22:20.24 | airtonix | or me |
| 22:20.27 | Xyphoid | sadly |
| 22:21.30 | Kraps | like i said earlier with Xavier Murlok and Smith Johnson? |
| 22:22.44 | Gnarfoz | I'd pay to be Xavier Murlok |
| 22:22.57 | Gnarfoz | too bad that's not how it works here^^ |
| 22:23.11 | cbreak | you can be Xavier Murlok for free |
| 22:23.16 | cbreak | just create a new battle.net account |
| 22:23.48 | cbreak | luckily we know about that before SC2 is out so preparation is possible |
| 22:24.07 | Gnarfoz | cbreak: sc2 *shrug* |
| 22:24.29 | Gnarfoz | if I can easily move all games attached to my current battle.net account to a new one, sure |
| 22:24.47 | cbreak | only new ones I think |
| 22:25.06 | Lunessa | "A møøse once bit my sister" |
| 22:25.44 | KarlKFI|work | who would name their kid "møøse"? |
| 22:26.23 | *** join/#wowuidev durcyn (~durcyn@WoWUIDev/Durcyn) |
| 22:26.39 | KarlKFI|work | i did have a friend in hs we _called_ moose tho. |
| 22:27.34 | Lunessa | "No realli! She was Karving her initials on the møøse with the sharpened end of an interspace tøøthbrush given her by Svenge - her brother-in-law - an Oslo dentist and star of many Norwegian møvies: "The Høt Hands of an Oslo Dentist", "Fillings of Passion", "The Huge Mølars of Horst Nordfink"." |
| 22:28.37 | Lunessa | Karl - I went to college with a guy we called "Coke Machine" because he was bigger in every dimension than our dorm buildings rather substantial Coke machine. |
| 22:29.14 | ScytheBlade1 | wonders if the RL name change on the forums is retroactive |
| 22:29.22 | cbreak | no |
| 22:29.26 | Lunessa | SBO - No, it's not. |
| 22:29.48 | Gnarfoz | ...yet |
| 22:29.51 | eidolarr | Gnarfoz: I don't think SC2 names are unique? the rules were confusnig and have since changed |
| 22:29.52 | Gnarfoz | hehe |
| 22:30.02 | Gnarfoz | eidolarr: sc2? *shrug* |
| 22:30.12 | Gnarfoz | this is about battle.net accounts. |
| 22:30.12 | Kraps | Lunessa: WHAAAAAAAT |
| 22:30.15 | ScytheBlade1 | names themselves are not |
| 22:30.22 | Dagmar | ScytheBlade1: It isn't, and it couldn't be even if they wanted to |
| 22:30.24 | eidolarr | ahh you mean for wow |
| 22:30.31 | ScytheBlade1 | but they have a 3-digit identifier on the end |
| 22:30.37 | ScytheBlade1 | which makes them unique |
| 22:30.37 | eidolarr | well do like was suggested and forge a legal name change document! |
| 22:30.47 | Dagmar | ScytheBlade1: They've got that little privacy policy thing that would make class-action lawers just spring up like mushrooms |
| 22:31.04 | Dagmar | eidolarr: You can't really forge one. |
| 22:31.30 | ScytheBlade1 | Dagmar: er? that says what? |
| 22:31.31 | Kraps | Dagmar: they can just change the policy... |
| 22:31.56 | Dagmar | kraps: Any changes to it can't retroactively apply to things in the past |
| 22:32.01 | Kraps | oh |
| 22:32.09 | Dagmar | ...otherwise the whole thing would be quite pointless. |
| 22:33.02 | eidolarr | Dagmar: even if you could it would probably not be a profitable long term strategy to falsify government docs for the sake of video game anonymity |
| 22:33.16 | Gnarfoz | only have to do it once |
| 22:33.17 | Gnarfoz | ;D |
| 22:33.26 | Dagmar | eidolarr: In the US you can change your name at any time |
| 22:33.31 | Kraps | http://twitter.com/kingjames |
| 22:33.48 | Dagmar | The only purpose federal forms serve is to convince certain particularly stubborn gov't agencies that you were serious |
| 22:34.17 | durcyn | c.f.: Heywood Jablowme |
| 22:34.22 | Kraps | good timing idiot |
| 22:34.47 | eidolarr | Dagmar: yeah but pretending you changed your name just to change the name associated with your wow account is questionable |
| 22:35.11 | Gnarfoz | I think he's saying you don't have to provide a reason |
| 22:35.19 | Dagmar | eidolarr: There's more play in it than you'd expect. You're allowed to use an alias for business relationships as well. |
| 22:35.48 | Dagmar | You can thank Hollywood for that one |
| 22:36.43 | eidolarr | hmm maybe just buying a new account wouldn't be so bad |
| 22:36.44 | Dagmar | There's rather a lot you can get away with based on nothing even so concrete as a scribble on a cocktail napkin, provided you don't owe anyone any money or are wanted by the lawl |
| 22:36.58 | Dagmar | If they're serious about this I might just go payment card |
| 22:37.01 | eidolarr | can you change the name on your account when you make it battle.net 2.0? |
| 22:37.21 | eidolarr | haha "wanted by the lawl" |
| 22:37.23 | ScytheBlade1 | eidolarr: under two circumstances |
| 22:37.28 | Kraps | http://wowriot.gameriot.com/blogs/Americans-are-bad-at-games/Real-Names-on-the-Official-Forums-New-REAL-ID-function ohai basahiok |
| 22:37.47 | Dagmar | I figure it won't take more than a week for htem to realize this is going to piss off FAR more people than it's worth, many of whom will get mad about the heavy-handed wrongness of it. |
| 22:37.50 | ScytheBlade1 | eidolarr: (1) you were a minor, and now you're not -- your parents can change the name on the account to yours |
| 22:37.51 | Gnarfoz | isn't his name Bashiok |
| 22:37.57 | Dagmar | There's no need to get carried away and throw privacy out with anonymity |
| 22:38.09 | ScytheBlade1 | eidolarr: (2) you fax them a notarized copy of your court papers saying you got your name changed |
| 22:38.13 | ScytheBlade1 | that is is |
| 22:38.21 | Kraps | Gnarfoz: gah my bad |
| 22:38.27 | Gnarfoz | ScytheBlade1: that's not exclusive to "when you switch to bnet 2.0", though |
| 22:38.42 | ScytheBlade1 | Gnarfoz: you've already agreed to their terms long ago on the matter |
| 22:38.49 | Gnarfoz | ScytheBlade1: how's that relevant |
| 22:38.52 | Xyphoid | Dagmar: i doubt it. realid pissed off a lot of people but that was studiously ignored, clearly because this was also in the pipeline |
| 22:38.57 | Xyphoid | the question is what else is in the pipeline |
| 22:39.02 | Gnarfoz | he was asking a specific question, you answered something else, is all I'm saying |
| 22:39.28 | durcyn | Xyphoid: a night-elf-themed dating site |
| 22:39.39 | Dagmar | Kraps: If the guys phone wren't probably ringing off hte hook I'd consider calling him up to try and offer some consolation "Yes, this is crap, but it'll pass and some good will probably come of it" |
| 22:39.56 | Gnarfoz | you could always and still can change the name on your account under those two circumstances, he was looking for a loophole at the "merge into a battle.net account" border^^ |
| 22:40.09 | Dagmar | Xyphoid: The previous complaints were from people who decided that "friend" means "some random stranger on the internet" |
| 22:40.17 | airtonix | oh lol |
| 22:40.38 | eidolarr | ScytheBlade1: hmm that seems sort of like a bait and switch, how many people would have used a fake name on their acct if they knew it was going to be associated w/ forum posts? |
| 22:40.41 | Kraps | Dagmar: i'm just laughing at the sheer lunacy of this |
| 22:40.47 | malreth | hey... you know that South Park episode where they make fun of WoW players? |
| 22:40.49 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@c-68-33-146-13.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 22:40.49 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 22:40.49 | Dagmar | Xyphoid: ...which isn't really a valid complaint. This new business is I think someone reading too many trade mags, seeing that article about Facebook redefining privacy, and getting carried away |
| 22:40.50 | Xyphoid | Dagmar: what, you mean like the 'friend list' in game? |
| 22:41.06 | Dagmar | Xyphoid: yeah, in the context of _the game_ that's fine |
| 22:41.10 | *** join/#wowuidev rebust (~tus@manz-5f748e73.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 22:41.14 | ScytheBlade1 | eidolarr: sucks for them. when they made the account, they agreed to do it under their real name. |
| 22:41.20 | Xyphoid | you mean for this service that lets me communicate with people ingame? |
| 22:41.23 | Dagmar | Xyphoid: In the case of RealID Blizz said up front and outright, "this is for your real life friends" |
| 22:41.26 | airtonix | micah whipple : It looks like he's staying in the same house as his mother =[ |
| 22:41.34 | Gnarfoz | eidolarr: see it this way, they "switched" the part where you get write access to the forums with your account. ;) |
| 22:41.35 | airtonix | lulz |
| 22:41.45 | eidolarr | ScytheBlade1: is that in the TOS/EULA? |
| 22:41.49 | Xyphoid | i mean, it's clear that cross-server communication would be handy for non-real-life-friends |
| 22:41.50 | ScytheBlade1 | yes |
| 22:41.54 | ScytheBlade1 | bnet ToS |
| 22:42.04 | ScytheBlade1 | same with wow |
| 22:42.30 | Dagmar | Xyphoid: I've got somewhat of the inverse problem. My Blizz stuff is under my birth name, which basically, no one uses... so some of my friends are still staring at that going "Who the fuck is P.... R.......?" |
| 22:43.16 | Dagmar | Xyphoid: Yet if they're your friends, and not just someone being exceptionally trusting of the man with the free candy van, what little info is "leaked" should not be a problem |
| 22:43.18 | Gnarfoz | if only he'd realize Dagmar is a women's name |
| 22:43.19 | airtonix | i see you |
| 22:43.21 | Gnarfoz | cackles |
| 22:43.48 | Xyphoid | Dagmar: yep! realid is awesome in the best-case scenario |
| 22:44.26 | eidolarr | ScytheBlade1: I see that it's more defensible, it just seems weird. Before my reasoning was "hell they have my credit card, who cares about my name," but I would def have lied if I'd known |
| 22:44.27 | Dagmar | In a proper use-case, sure. |
| 22:45.11 | Dagmar | We've got a lot of people who are carping for reasons similar to someone complaining because their cat looked cold, they gave the cat some hot sauce, and now it's pooping all oevr the house |
| 22:45.12 | A-KO | okay |
| 22:45.12 | eidolarr | and if I get SC2 i will certainly not use my true name |
| 22:45.16 | A-KO | I think I just exploded in my pants |
| 22:45.20 | eidolarr | if people on the internet knew that, they would have total power over me |
| 22:45.29 | A-KO | I've gone from 33% body fat to 27% body fat, maintaining the same weight--in 2 months at the gym, going 2x/week |
| 22:45.35 | A-KO | I am ecstatic, I certainly didn't expect that |
| 22:45.40 | ScytheBlade1 | eidolarr: no they don't. and keep in mind, if your account is ever hijacked, you're not getting it back, period. |
| 22:45.42 | eidolarr | nice, congrats =) |
| 22:45.47 | Dagmar | eidolarr: You don't work in a place where the HR people are likely to try to Facebook-stalk you before hiring, do you |
| 22:45.50 | eidolarr | A-KO: what kind of workout? |
| 22:46.01 | eidolarr | Dagmar: yes |
| 22:46.05 | A-KO | eidolarr: mostly weight training, but a mix of cardio and weight training--primarily for both muscle gain and fat loss at the same time |
| 22:46.19 | eidolarr | so like squat, deadlift, bench press? |
| 22:46.22 | A-KO | yes |
| 22:46.28 | A-KO | just did deadlifts today actually... |
| 22:46.30 | A-KO | and squats... |
| 22:46.36 | A-KO | but pushups instead of bench press :P |
| 22:46.39 | A-KO | squats suck :( |
| 22:46.40 | Dagmar | eidolarr: So let's say you posted to the forums about something some jackass decided made you worth of hate... and they go set up a facebook page claiming to be you, and making up a bunch of things that would render you unhireable... |
| 22:46.48 | eidolarr | squats are definitely hard to learn, so many joints |
| 22:46.54 | Dagmar | eidolarr: ...or making you get fired. |
| 22:46.58 | A-KO | Dagmar: good |
| 22:47.00 | A-KO | Dagmar: I encourage that |
| 22:47.05 | A-KO | Dagmar: you know why I encourage that? |
| 22:47.13 | cbreak | you're a masochist |
| 22:47.16 | A-KO | Dagmar: Because it would finally destroy the legitimacy of shitty companies doing that shit |
| 22:47.21 | Dagmar | This is the reason we _need_ privacy, although not necessarilly anonymity |
| 22:47.45 | eidolarr | A-KO: that's pretty inconsiderate of the people losing their jobs, and a lot of great companies (google, MS, facebook) do it |
| 22:47.49 | Dagmar | A-ko: Nah, the way that comes down I think they'd just write off the losses of good employees in favor of keeping "undesireables" out |
| 22:48.00 | Kraps | "It's nice because all the people defending the change will be the only ones left on the forum and I'm sure their input will be highly valued as they agree with every new thing Blizzard puts forward. What a sparkling utopia it will be. " |
| 22:48.29 | Dagmar | If someone worked for Apple and that sort of stunt went down, you could probably get them skinned alive by posting fake facebook pages gloating about selling design plans to Motorola |
| 22:48.38 | eidolarr | A-KO: I did pushups for awhile but it was too hard to measure progress |
| 22:48.49 | A-KO | Dagmar: well, thankfully, I facebook friend some of my coworkers, so they know my real FB page |
| 22:48.49 | Dagmar | Kraps: Who said _that_? |
| 22:48.54 | Gnarfoz | luckily, I could sue for my employment, if stuff like that ever happened here ;D |
| 22:49.04 | Kraps | poster in the sticky |
| 22:49.06 | Dagmar | A-ko: That probably won't be likely to help much |
| 22:49.13 | eidolarr | A-KO: the problem with deadlift is that it's almost psychological once you get to decent weights, like once you lift the first one you can do the rest easy |
| 22:49.17 | Kraps | hes being sarcastic |
| 22:49.35 | A-KO | eidolarr: yeah, squats are definitley the hardest thing for me to do--it makes my legs hurt pretty badly |
| 22:49.41 | A-KO | muscle pain though, not anything with joints |
| 22:49.41 | Dagmar | A-ko: I've seen companies fire people just for being near controversy |
| 22:49.46 | eidolarr | where in your legs? |
| 22:49.53 | A-KO | eidolarr: front of my thighs |
| 22:50.25 | eidolarr | I had that too when I was starting until it started like, actually aching, turns out my legs were too wide |
| 22:50.46 | eidolarr | i think those muscles (adductors?) grow slower than the rest trained by the squat at first |
| 22:50.54 | Dagmar | You had too wide a stance? |
| 22:51.01 | Dagmar | Better watch that at airports |
| 22:51.14 | eidolarr | why would you do squats in an airport |
| 22:51.36 | A-KO | Dagmar: It would suck for a little while, yes--but at the end of the day it would result in a phasing out of companies googling your name. It would suck for at least a few years though |
| 22:51.39 | Dagmar | Perhaps you might be in a bathroom surfing for anonymous sex |
| 22:51.43 | Dagmar | ...like that senator. |
| 22:52.21 | eidolarr | A-KO: do you do power clean? |
| 22:52.28 | A-KO | eidolarr: never heard of it, so nope :P |
| 22:52.50 | eidolarr | it's the one where you start like a deadlift but you throw it up and catch it on your shoulders |
| 22:52.52 | Dagmar | A-KO: It's been sucking for a few years now. I'd _like_ to say that I've seen signs of it slowing, but... I know hte names of two companies now who basically have a nice set of lawyers ready to go when the inevitable lawsuit occurs because they offer HR people access to people's _private_ Facebook information |
| 22:53.28 | ScytheBlade1 | Look. If you don't want your real name visible, DON'T POST ON THE BOARDS. |
| 22:53.29 | ScytheBlade1 | Tada. |
| 22:53.29 | Dagmar | THe companies that have no problems invading the privacy of prospective and current employees aren't really being dissuaded by anything |
| 22:53.47 | Dagmar | ScytheBlade1: They should just shut the forums down |
| 22:53.52 | eidolarr | ScytheBlade1: why would i not just fill in a bogus name :| |
| 22:53.56 | ScytheBlade1 | (Slippery slope? Possibly. But so far, I kinda like the changes.) |
| 22:54.12 | Gnarfoz | ScytheBlade1: wait, that'd make sense, everything considered! |
| 22:54.20 | A-KO | Dagmar: At the end of the day, it needs to return to an employee's market, not an employer's market. If you go out and get drunk on your time off, or you go out and party on your time off or do whatever--it shouldn't matter to the company. You're not doing it on company time. |
| 22:54.23 | A-KO | And I stand by that |
| 22:54.24 | ScytheBlade1 | eidolarr: because if your account is EVER hijacked, you won't EVER get it backed. Because that is the name that blizzard uses to contact you. Because you CAN'T change it in the future. |
| 22:54.27 | KarlKFI|work | Are blizzard employee posters going to be using real names too? |
| 22:54.35 | Dagmar | A-Ko: THat's a good fifteen years off |
| 22:54.48 | ScytheBlade1 | eidolarr: creating a b.net ID under a fake name is dumb, and sharing your real name is strictly *opt-in* |
| 22:54.55 | Gnarfoz | that's now, in sane countries |
| 22:54.57 | Kraps | KarlKFI|work: yes |
| 22:55.00 | ScytheBlade1 | why in the heck would you make one under a fake name? |
| 22:55.03 | eidolarr | getting your account hijacked is more dumb |
| 22:55.03 | A-KO | ScytheBlade1: according to Blizzard, forum posting is full names :P |
| 22:55.11 | Kraps | KarlKFI|work: also http://wowriot.gameriot.com/blogs/Americans-are-bad-at-games/Real-Names-on-the-Official-Forums-New-REAL-ID-function |
| 22:55.13 | A-KO | good luck hijacking my WoW account |
| 22:55.15 | ScytheBlade1 | A-KO: forum posting is also pretty obviously opt-in. |
| 22:55.19 | Dagmar | ScytheBlade1: It might be that you just use a psuedonym everywhere as a matter of habit |
| 22:55.44 | Xyphoid | tech support is done via forum posting |
| 22:55.48 | Dagmar | ...because you're used to crazies perhaps trying to come after you |
| 22:55.49 | Xyphoid | and customer service |
| 22:55.49 | Arrowmaster | ScytheBlade1: not if you want customer service |
| 22:55.53 | ScytheBlade1 | Dagmar: I have a friend who goes by a pseudonym, has since he was about 6. He still manages to type in his legal name when asked for his legal name |
| 22:56.05 | ScytheBlade1 | Arrowmaster: there are multiple other contacts for CS |
| 22:56.09 | ScytheBlade1 | same with tech support |
| 22:56.16 | ScytheBlade1 | tech support has their own dedicated phone line |
| 22:56.18 | Arrowmaster | yes and those contacts often say to use the CS forum |
| 22:56.21 | durcyn | ScytheBlade1: do you have no concept of the amount of harassment this enables |
| 22:56.22 | Dagmar | ScytheBlade1: Dude, I'd have put Dagmar d'Surreal into my blizz info without a second thought if it wasn't auto-populated by the CC information |
| 22:56.26 | ScytheBlade1 | durcyn: I do |
| 22:56.33 | eidolarr | tech support redirects to the forums if they run out of ideas |
| 22:56.34 | ScytheBlade1 | Dagmar: your problem, sorry :/ |
| 22:56.35 | Xyphoid | really, the answer is 'stop using the forums'? |
| 22:56.42 | ScytheBlade1 | yes |
| 22:56.45 | ScytheBlade1 | if you are that over the top about it |
| 22:56.46 | ScytheBlade1 | ye |
| 22:56.46 | A-KO | I can agree wit hthat |
| 22:56.46 | ScytheBlade1 | s |
| 22:56.50 | A-KO | would cut out all the bullshit on the forums |
| 22:56.53 | Dagmar | So, that's basically asking a majority of the users to stop using the forums. |
| 22:56.59 | ScytheBlade1 | That's incorrect |
| 22:57.00 | Gnarfoz | hahaha ahahahaha ahahaha. |
| 22:57.04 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm a paranoid freak |
| 22:57.15 | ScytheBlade1 | I know *exactly* what information is out there under my name and address |
| 22:57.16 | Dagmar | So you won't be using the forums anymore then |
| 22:57.19 | Gnarfoz | I like people that disconnected from reality |
| 22:57.20 | ScytheBlade1 | I have no problem publishing that information |
| 22:57.34 | Xyphoid | do you plan to jobhunt at any point from now onwards? |
| 22:57.47 | A-KO | ScytheBlade1: It's funny how people don't mind this when it comes to newspaper publications, publishing documents, papers, research, journalized publications. They hand their name out to strangers all of the time--but all of a sudden, OH NOES, INTERNETS. |
| 22:57.49 | A-KO | and it's a big deal |
| 22:57.57 | ScytheBlade1 | I already work for a massive corporation that has an entire department dedicated to facebook alone |
| 22:58.03 | ScytheBlade1 | A-KO: yup. |
| 22:58.13 | A-KO | ScytheBlade1: I had to smack some sense into a friend of mine |
| 22:58.16 | Dagmar | A-KO: Because internets have a MASSIVE reach, as opposed to some dinky research paper only 20 people will ever see |
| 22:58.18 | ScytheBlade1 | regarding jobs, I already work for the worst of the worst |
| 22:58.27 | ScytheBlade1 | Dagmar: bull. even those papers are online. |
| 22:58.42 | Dagmar | ScytheBlade1: Except no one ever looks at them unless they're interested in the paper itself |
| 22:58.48 | ScytheBlade1 | Google does. |
| 22:58.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Alram (~Marla@fabe.xs4all.nl) |
| 22:59.01 | durcyn | there's an unsubtle difference between writing a whitepaper and being a blizzard forum troll, though. |
| 22:59.07 | eidolarr | the academic paper connection is tentative |
| 22:59.16 | Dagmar | So let's say one day Google up and decides they don't want gamers working for them (unlikely, I know). Then where would you be? |
| 22:59.26 | ScytheBlade1 | SOL |
| 22:59.31 | ScytheBlade1 | And if they ever did that |
| 22:59.34 | ScytheBlade1 | I wouldn't want to work for them |
| 22:59.43 | ScytheBlade1 | The problem with this debate is simple |
| 22:59.45 | Dagmar | An academic paper would have that there because you've been going to that college under your birth name, and you'r expected to be responsible for what you write there |
| 22:59.57 | Dagmar | Since when should your birth name's usage expand to encompass your gaming? |
| 22:59.58 | Kraps | A-KO: i'm pretty confident that the info i give out to all those places wont go to the crazy guy i kicked from my guild and wants to hunt me down |
| 23:00.11 | ScytheBlade1 | The ENTIRE DEBATE is nit-picking at the "what if?" situations |
| 23:00.18 | ScytheBlade1 | When in reality? This changes nothing |
| 23:00.29 | Dagmar | Of course it's all "what if" situations. |
| 23:00.36 | Arrowmaster | and when those what if situations happen there will be lawsuits, very very large ones |
| 23:00.37 | ScytheBlade1 | What if the world ends? |
| 23:00.40 | ScytheBlade1 | Best shoot up now! |
| 23:00.43 | A-KO | not really Arrowmaster |
| 23:00.47 | eidolarr | the problem with this debate is the abject unwillingness of both sides to reach for mutual ground, like most debates |
| 23:00.47 | Dagmar | We don't generally wait until someone shoots up a school before we make it illegal to carry weapons in them |
| 23:00.49 | ScytheBlade1 | knee-jerk reactions don't help anyway |
| 23:00.58 | ScytheBlade1 | *anyone |
| 23:01.07 | Dagmar | it seems to me it's coming down to who has been stalked and who hasn't |
| 23:01.15 | A-KO | Dagmar: oh noes |
| 23:01.19 | A-KO | the mythical internets stalker |
| 23:01.20 | Xyphoid | pretty much |
| 23:01.22 | A-KO | they exist EVERYWHERE |
| 23:01.23 | A-KO | IN THE SHADOWS |
| 23:01.25 | A-KO | 4CHAN |
| 23:01.25 | ScytheBlade1 | battle.net isn't going to change that |
| 23:01.26 | A-KO | HIDE |
| 23:01.27 | A-KO | EVERYONE |
| 23:01.31 | Gnarfoz | A-KO: we've been over this today |
| 23:01.32 | A-KO | sorry |
| 23:01.34 | Dagmar | A-Ko: You're being sarcastic there, right? |
| 23:01.42 | A-KO | I call bullshit on the internet stalker thing |
| 23:01.45 | malreth | what A-KO said... |
| 23:01.46 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: remember peppy has, which probably means she is never going to post on the blizzard forums again with this change |
| 23:01.56 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: I damn well won't be posting anymore |
| 23:01.58 | Lunessa | SBO - I'm likely to quit posting to Blizzard forums entirely as a result of this change. |
| 23:02.03 | Kraps | A-KO: are you fureal? |
| 23:02.04 | Xyphoid | i won't be |
| 23:02.05 | ScytheBlade1 | *shrugs* |
| 23:02.08 | ScytheBlade1 | To each their own |
| 23:02.08 | Gnarfoz | since he was a radio dj with druggies for his audience, and got stalked, everyone on WoW now will be |
| 23:02.10 | A-KO | yes Kraps. |
| 23:02.15 | malreth | except in the cases where a person already has a real stalker... |
| 23:02.15 | ScytheBlade1 | Sad, sure |
| 23:02.19 | A-KO | Gnarfoz: lol |
| 23:02.43 | Arrowmaster | maybe somebody should make a list of all the green posters and other helpful regulars that will never be posting again after this change |
| 23:02.47 | Dagmar | I don't want to sound like I'm calling people newbs, but I've been using the goddamn internets and before that "BBSes" for about 20 years now. There's damn good reasons we use pseudonyms because crazies DO exist |
| 23:02.56 | Dagmar | More than 20 but I don't wnana think about it |
| 23:03.07 | fiphi | Haha. |
| 23:03.08 | Gnarfoz | 20 years ago, you were using aliases to be cool, not because of the crazies |
| 23:03.09 | fiphi | Age paranoia? |
| 23:03.09 | Xyphoid | 'this doesn't affect me personally, therefore people complaining are overreacting' |
| 23:03.11 | Xyphoid | is stupid |
| 23:03.13 | A-KO | Gnarfoz: all I ever hear from people is some bullshit about some mythical internet stalker coming to harm the children and your family and your whole life--when in reality, a VAST MAJORITY of stalking just happens offline. Someone you know from work, someone you've met. The internet hasn't changed that. It's just in everyone's face because of entrapment shows like Dateline |
| 23:03.36 | Gnarfoz | A-KO: Datewhat |
| 23:03.43 | A-KO | that show about internet pedophiles |
| 23:03.45 | ScytheBlade1 | I'll stop interjecting thoughts with this |
| 23:03.49 | eidolarr | if you're unwilling to acknowledge even the possibility that you could be stalked more easily with realID, you're not even trying to understand the other side of the coin |
| 23:03.49 | Gnarfoz | that's also why I don't really care: not from the US |
| 23:04.00 | Dagmar | fiphi: There are folks out there who regularly trivialize the opinions and judgements of people outside their own age group |
| 23:04.07 | Dagmar | "Never trust someone over 30" as it were |
| 23:04.10 | cbreak | the internet is part of the real world |
| 23:04.18 | Arrowmaster | wait is this even legal in other counties besides the US? |
| 23:04.22 | ScytheBlade1 | Most everything with the debate now is knee-jerk paranoia. Some is founded in reality, some isn't. If you don't want to post, then don't -- but a month into the change, see if you want to then. |
| 23:04.38 | A-KO | eidolarr: There is no possibility of it happening, since there is absolutely 0 security when it comes to your name alone. Blizzard isn't publicizing anything other than your Name, and your WoW character--any and all other information is information they'd have to ask you, or ask your friends that know you. |
| 23:04.52 | Arrowmaster | i know .au doesnt even put full info in their domain whois because of privacy laws |
| 23:05.02 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (spode@213.21.119.83) |
| 23:05.05 | fiphi | Dagmar: I never trust bald guys. That's the only thing I have. :p |
| 23:05.07 | Dagmar | This isn't knee-jerk |
| 23:05.11 | eidolarr | A-KO: or maybe little bits and pieces of info about where you work or where you live you've offhandedly slipped into forum posts |
| 23:05.17 | Kraps | A-KO: i beg to differ http://wowriot.gameriot.com/blogs/Americans-are-bad-at-games/Real-Names-on-the-Official-Forums-New-REAL-ID-function |
| 23:05.25 | A-KO | eidolarr: that's not Blizzard's fault |
| 23:05.25 | Gnarfoz | .de forces you to go through their NIC's website so you have to agree to privacy terms |
| 23:05.27 | eidolarr | A-KO: the game with social engineering, if you've ever tried it, is you reach for little bits of info wherever you can and then use them to grab more |
| 23:05.32 | Dagmar | Experience and statistical analysis pretty much shows that eventually, you WILL encounter a crazy |
| 23:05.45 | eidolarr | A-KO: no, but it happens, and it is a reality that you're refusing to recognize |
| 23:05.47 | A-KO | Kraps: That's because they know he lives in southern California as a result of being a Blizzard employee. |
| 23:05.51 | Dagmar | What that crazy can then do about it is up to how tidy you've been about your personally identifying information |
| 23:06.04 | A-KO | Dagmar: you're more likely to encounter some crazy fuck in a bar or a nightclub than you would encounter on the WoW forums |
| 23:06.14 | Lunessa | I've been online since 1983 (BBS, Internet) - which is a long damned time. I'm not concerned, personally, about an internet stalker. Just that I'm not comfortable with posting my name on a gaming forum for every post. |
| 23:06.24 | Kraps | so its ok for a blizz employee to be stalked then |
| 23:06.30 | A-KO | Kraps: He won't get stalked |
| 23:06.48 | Dagmar | A-ko: That person you can have arrested, or you can beat the crap out of them, or you can flee. They can't invisibly cause shit for you for months on end through the internet because they're not going to know your internet id info |
| 23:07.13 | Arrowmaster | Kraps: they have corporate lawyers, they could get restraining orders easily for minor things |
| 23:07.16 | A-KO | Dagmar: yes, and anyone who actually physically comes to harass you or stalk you as a result of this can also be arrested and charged. |
| 23:07.24 | malreth | bingo |
| 23:07.26 | Kraps | yeah, i'm sure people wounlt have hunted down Tseric or Eonyx if they could |
| 23:07.26 | Dagmar | A-KO: Internet stalkers are never that overt |
| 23:07.27 | Xyphoid | what's your real name, a-ko? |
| 23:07.29 | Xyphoid | out of curiosity |
| 23:07.31 | A-KO | Michael Cramer |
| 23:07.31 | Dagmar | Take it from someone who used to raise hell |
| 23:08.04 | eidolarr | look idk what to tell you, online stalking does happen. it's sad that the world is dangerous, but that doesn't excuse arbitrarily introducing more risk into harmless hobbies |
| 23:08.14 | Kraps | Arrowmaster: so its ok then, just get a restraining order! |
| 23:08.16 | A-KO | Dagmar: I'm relatively sure that even people through 4chan eventually give up bothering people about shit. |
| 23:08.20 | Arrowmaster | i have also been involved in a few hell raising events |
| 23:08.24 | Dagmar | eidolarr++ |
| 23:08.34 | Dagmar | A-Ko: "Eventually" |
| 23:08.47 | Arrowmaster | Kraps: its a lot harder to get one than you think for things not done in person |
| 23:08.57 | Dagmar | In the meantime, your life gets thrown into chaos because of some jackass on the internet you can't do anything about |
| 23:09.01 | A-KO | Arrowmaster: and the laws can change for it |
| 23:09.11 | Lunessa | Haha... Just to play the other side of this... what if everyone on /b/ or 4chan had to use their real names for every posting? |
| 23:09.22 | A-KO | Lunessa: there'd be a lot less shit there |
| 23:09.23 | Arrowmaster | A-KO: do you even pay attention to the US laws? they NEVER change for the benefit of the public |
| 23:09.25 | A-KO | that's for sure |
| 23:09.49 | malreth | Lunessa: then 4chan wouldn't exist because it's nothing but child porn |
| 23:09.57 | Arrowmaster | there would be no shit there, the site wouldnt exist |
| 23:10.03 | Lunessa | malreth: awesome. |
| 23:10.16 | malreth | fucking lolis |
| 23:10.17 | A-KO | Arrowmaster: I don't know about that, I've been following IT privacy laws for a bit now as we deal with a lot of customer data across 3 countries....and US laws are slowly, but surely, getting better as far as privacy is concerned. But in all cases, in every case, your *name* alone, even full name, isn't something that's even close to being required to being secured in any fashion. |
| 23:10.23 | A-KO | No wifi encryption, no SSL, nothing |
| 23:10.25 | Dagmar | Lunessa: That forum would be reduced to nothing but known felons overnight |
| 23:10.28 | A-KO | If you don't like it |
| 23:10.32 | A-KO | then don't post on the forums |
| 23:10.44 | eidolarr | that line is so old |
| 23:10.54 | eidolarr | most of us complaining have already agreed that we will not post on the forums |
| 23:10.55 | malreth | later all |
| 23:10.56 | Kraps | Lunessa: we could ride to their houses with shotguns |
| 23:10.58 | eidolarr | lets get past it |
| 23:11.08 | Lunessa | ciao malreth |
| 23:11.10 | *** join/#wowuidev malreth_ (~triti@wireless-128-62-145-226.public.utexas.edu) |
| 23:11.18 | Kraps | bust some caps |
| 23:11.24 | Arrowmaster | A-KO: a name alone isnt that important when its only being shown to you, when its being publically posted to the entire internet its different |
| 23:11.59 | Dagmar | We could take their facebook pics and paste their faces into gay porn with their real name and post them to /b/ |
| 23:12.09 | Dagmar | Malice knows no bounds |
| 23:12.13 | ScytheBlade1 | I'd just like to state, and if anyone spent more than 60 seconds trying to find my name, address and phone number |
| 23:12.16 | ScytheBlade1 | they could |
| 23:12.28 | Dagmar | ScytheBlade1: That's you. It's no okay for you to make that decision for everyone else. |
| 23:12.29 | Arrowmaster | did you see the BlizzardPR twitter joke about using facebook pics for forum avatars |
| 23:12.36 | Lunessa | I'm more comfortable with my character name being on my posts than my legal name. I don't chose to reveal my name in that forum. Sadly, it appears that my posting will come to an end as a result of their policy change. |
| 23:12.46 | Jerub | omg today's QC is awesome |
| 23:12.57 | Gnarfoz | Lunessa: at least you come to the right conclusion |
| 23:13.00 | ScytheBlade1 | Dagmar: which is why it is still your choice to post or not |
| 23:13.03 | *** join/#wowuidev sandra_f (~sandra_f@212-198-248-35.rev.numericable.fr) |
| 23:13.05 | ScytheBlade1 | Lunessa: and it sucks. :/ |
| 23:13.09 | Xyphoid | the thing is, do you think this is the last realid related change? |
| 23:13.16 | ScytheBlade1 | Lunessa: but I'd be curious what the forums look like in a month, and if that changes your mind at all. |
| 23:13.22 | Lunessa | Gnarfoz: It's only 'right' because the only other choice I have sucks worse. |
| 23:13.31 | Dagmar | ScytheBlade1: Find me any other game whose official forums require personally identifying information be made public as a matter of course in their use |
| 23:13.36 | Dagmar | There won't BE community managers after this |
| 23:13.57 | ScytheBlade1 | Dagmar: find me another one who actually go to great lengths to protect your account, and return it to you should it be hijacked. |
| 23:13.57 | eidolarr | Xyphoid: I would be surprised not to see profile pictures eventually, given the facebook integration |
| 23:14.19 | Dagmar | ScytheBlade1: Most of them |
| 23:14.25 | Dagmar | They want subscriber dollars |
| 23:14.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Which requires a... |
| 23:14.34 | ScytheBlade1 | wait for it... |
| 23:14.39 | ScytheBlade1 | credit card! with... a name! |
| 23:14.41 | ScytheBlade1 | .. |
| 23:14.45 | Dagmar | Yes, which is PII. |
| 23:14.46 | Lunessa | And since I'm in the class of 'very helpful' users and 'community contributors' the loss of my participation is likely a negative thing. But I'm only one person, someone else will step in to fill whatever miniscule void I leave behind. |
| 23:14.59 | eidolarr | actually it doesn't require a credit card at all |
| 23:15.11 | ScytheBlade1 | eidolarr: we're not talking blizz-specific |
| 23:15.11 | Dagmar | Lunessa: Someone else who wants to paint a target on their face for disagreeing with hte sea of trolls? Hahah |
| 23:15.17 | Arrowmaster | you dont disclose credit card info when it has been given to you as credit card info, even if its just the name on the card |
| 23:15.18 | ScytheBlade1 | eidolarr: generalizations |
| 23:15.56 | eidolarr | ScytheBlade1: I see, weak argument though |
| 23:15.58 | Lunessa | Dagmar: My sticky has 313,570 views. Too bad I won't be writing any new ones, no? :P |
| 23:16.17 | eidolarr | ScytheBlade1: the implication is that no other company goes to great lengths to protect your account, and even that Blizzard as it is now does not |
| 23:16.17 | ScytheBlade1 | Arrowmaster: point is, they already have it, and chances are they aren't as physically or electronically secure as blizzard |
| 23:16.48 | ScytheBlade1 | Hang on, finding a link. |
| 23:16.51 | eidolarr | ScytheBlade1: taking care to guard your account is orthogonal to showing your real name on posts |
| 23:16.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (~Lopeppepp@cpe-67-252-44-53.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 23:16.58 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 23:17.08 | Arrowmaster | speaking of which my credit card did get stolen recently and i still havent figured out how |
| 23:17.29 | ScytheBlade1 | Arrowmaster: all I'm saying, is that with your name effectively hidden, that's a great point -- you still got screwed. :/ |
| 23:17.38 | kd3 | sigh |
| 23:17.41 | Arrowmaster | but we have two cards with the same number, just different names on it, not sure whos it was that got stolen |
| 23:17.44 | kd3 | looks like I'm not going to be posting on the forums any more |
| 23:17.51 | Xyphoid | join the club |
| 23:17.56 | Kraps | hey guys, whats the post level of the sticky? |
| 23:17.58 | Kraps | IT'S OVER 9000!!!! |
| 23:18.00 | Gnarfoz | Arrowmaster: can't you check... who still has theirs? |
| 23:18.20 | Lopeppeppy | Are you guys getting bans? |
| 23:18.28 | ScytheBlade1 | .. bans? |
| 23:18.43 | Gnarfoz | is there a RSS feed for those now? |
| 23:18.48 | Arrowmaster | Gnarfoz: it wasnt physically stolen, we just got a call from the credit card company asking about the recent transactions made in greece |
| 23:18.58 | Arrowmaster | Lopeppeppy: you havent seen the news have you? |
| 23:18.59 | ScytheBlade1 | semi-related: http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=25626109041 |
| 23:19.00 | Gnarfoz | ah, your cc info got stolen, I see |
| 23:19.07 | ScytheBlade1 | they're actually making a LOT of changes to the forums... for the better |
| 23:19.12 | Lunessa | Peppy-deaerst, no. Just that we're not going to be posting anymore. |
| 23:19.18 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar_ipad (~sylvanaar@cpe-098-122-156-080.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 23:19.26 | Arrowmaster | Lopeppeppy: you are not going to be posting on the blizzard forums again either im guessing |
| 23:19.44 | Xyphoid | real ID is for friends only <-> real ID is used on forum posts |
| 23:19.46 | Xyphoid | i just can't reconcile that |
| 23:19.56 | Kraps | HO Lopeppeppy welcome to a world of hurt |
| 23:20.04 | Gnarfoz | that's probably the best point I've heard all day about it, Xyphoid |
| 23:21.07 | Wobin | as long as they make it that the realID name can only be seen by people on your RealID friends list =) |
| 23:21.08 | eidolarr | it seems like an attempt to slay the forums, with real id being incidental |
| 23:22.08 | Gnarfoz | Wobin: well, given that, you could reconcile it. but that's not what they're going to do. ;D |
| 23:22.18 | Wobin | hehe =) |
| 23:22.28 | sylvanaar_ipad | RealID is a nice concept, just poor execution |
| 23:22.33 | Wobin | poor? |
| 23:22.35 | Wobin | try terrible |
| 23:22.53 | sylvanaar_ipad | Indeed |
| 23:22.57 | Lopeppeppy | Ah, I lost track of the conversation while I was out gathering heat stroke. |
| 23:23.00 | Lopeppeppy | gives hugs all around. |
| 23:23.04 | Wobin | poor implies it's lacking something |
| 23:23.11 | eidolarr | sylvanaar_ipad: I think too much all at once, if they had brought it on slowly maybe |
| 23:23.13 | Wobin | terrible, implies it's actively bad =) |
| 23:23.15 | ScytheBlade1 | Lopeppeppy: :( |
| 23:23.24 | eidolarr | although I guess they couldn't kill the forums halfway through cataclysm |
| 23:23.32 | sylvanaar_ipad | How about terribad |
| 23:23.34 | Wobin | Lopeppeppy: how much did you harvest? |
| 23:23.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (~muffins@c-69-143-56-163.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 23:24.40 | sylvanaar_ipad | eidolarr: Yeah, they should have saved it for 4.0 and worked out the kinks in cat beta |
| 23:24.41 | Arrowmaster | Wobin: it is lacking something, control |
| 23:26.11 | Xyphoid | this phased rollout is kind of scary |
| 23:26.22 | sylvanaar_ipad | is lacking a beta key |
| 23:26.46 | Gnarfoz | no, you aren't |
| 23:26.56 | sylvanaar_ipad | Lies |
| 23:27.02 | Cloudwolf | i wish i was in beta just gota hope i get lucky i guess heh |
| 23:27.15 | Gnarfoz | also, wtb prat updates for 3.3.5 that make it look like it did before! :O |
| 23:27.17 | Arrowmaster | im not even eligible for beta |
| 23:27.30 | Cloudwolf | no active account? |
| 23:27.33 | Gnarfoz | everyone and their mom is, how can you not be, besides opting out? ;p |
| 23:27.43 | Arrowmaster | no active account |
| 23:27.56 | eidolarr | do you have to be subscribed or just active? just active right? |
| 23:28.09 | sylvanaar_ipad | I made updates, but i have to activate another account to work on realid |
| 23:28.19 | Cloudwolf | eidolarr a current subscription |
| 23:28.20 | Arrowmaster | active at a certain point when they copied the DB |
| 23:28.25 | Cloudwolf | and opted into beta |
| 23:28.52 | Arrowmaster | even if they give you a key you cant use it if your account wasnt active when they copied the DB |
| 23:29.09 | Arrowmaster | afaik |
| 23:29.19 | eidolarr | Cloudwolf: so if you pay with game cards you are inelligible? =( |
| 23:29.24 | Gnarfoz | sounds pretty pre-bnet2.0 to me, Arrowmaster |
| 23:29.32 | Cloudwolf | no i expect your elligable |
| 23:29.57 | Gnarfoz | I know that's how it was before, but now, Beta is just another game added to your bnet account |
| 23:29.57 | Arrowmaster | Gnarfoz: remember wow isnt 100% using bnet2.0, there is still a wow account under the covers |
| 23:30.24 | Gnarfoz | not really relevant to what I'm saying =) |
| 23:30.30 | Gnarfoz | PTR works that way, too |
| 23:31.01 | Gnarfoz | well, we won't know for sure until you get a beta key |
| 23:31.11 | eidolarr | what does this terminology for subscription status mean? why "remote"? WoW Remote:Unsubscribed |
| 23:31.32 | Gnarfoz | you're not subscribed to WoW Remote. |
| 23:31.35 | Gnarfoz | the mobile AH thingy. |
| 23:31.41 | sylvanaar_ipad | I'm thinking that the author beta will be in august...what do you guys think |
| 23:31.47 | eidolarr | ahh I thought it was the actual subscription |
| 23:32.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan (~pancake@cpe-174-098-002-214.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 23:32.20 | Gnarfoz | sylvanaar_ipad: *shrug* not sure. hopefully early enough to help my "first to 85" leveling plans. ;p |
| 23:32.30 | sylvanaar_ipad | Hah |
| 23:32.44 | Tuller | i would guess whenever they feel they've stabilized their changes to the UI enough |
| 23:33.11 | Gnarfoz | well, seeing that addons are disabled entirely at the moment, that's a fair guess ;D |
| 23:33.24 | sylvanaar_ipad | Well sure but guessing at the date is more fun |
| 23:33.39 | eidolarr | early beta is always the best |
| 23:33.44 | sylvanaar_ipad | Yes |
| 23:33.50 | eidolarr | remember when the fel reaver model was replaced with the diseased plaguelands bear? |
| 23:33.54 | eidolarr | that was a high point |
| 23:34.00 | eidolarr | also the original heroic leap |
| 23:34.23 | sylvanaar_ipad | I remember the crying over that |
| 23:34.25 | Gnarfoz | heroic leap was still in when I got into wotlk beta |
| 23:34.48 | eidolarr | me and my mate spent a good 3 hours just running around finding shit to jump off of |
| 23:34.59 | sylvanaar_ipad | I don't even play wow anymore, just waiting for cat |
| 23:35.17 | Arrowmaster | i dont play wow anymore and im not waiting for cat |
| 23:35.21 | Arrowmaster | i wont even play it then |
| 23:35.29 | Wobin | points at sylvanaar_ipad and throws his hands in the air. You're a KITTY! |
| 23:35.59 | Lopeppeppy | is soooooo a kitty |
| 23:36.04 | sylvanaar_ipad | My iPad is autocorrecting cata to cat |
| 23:36.50 | sylvanaar_ipad | But it's true. My cat is named after my wow toon sylvaan |
| 23:39.56 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 23:43.43 | Lunessa | Ok, I'm out. See you all tomorrow-ish. |
| 23:47.48 | Kraps | this thing is making my sad |
| 23:47.53 | Kraps | me* |
| 23:48.05 | Kraps | and i was pumped for cata |
| 23:48.12 | Kraps | i still am |
| 23:48.35 | Dagmar | Kraps: With any luck some sense will prevail before then and they'll realize we need to have a persistant name that's _not necessarily_ our birth names |
| 23:48.50 | Dagmar | ...or to be more specific, not necessarily the name on our credit cards. |
| 23:49.49 | *** join/#wowuidev unenana (~unenana@212-198-248-35.rev.numericable.fr) |
| 23:50.20 | Torhal | Dagmar: I don't think they'll care until someone is hurt over it. I mean, hell, in a society where people hand out SS#s like candy and where you can go to a pharmacy and pick up someone else's prescription and all you need is to know their address... |
| 23:53.40 | NeoTron | which is exactly what Cryptic did |
| 23:53.53 | NeoTron | say whatever you want about them but at least they don't have hybris like Blizzard |
| 23:53.58 | Kraps | what do you mean? |
| 23:54.44 | NeoTron | Cryptic has a global unique id |
| 23:54.48 | NeoTron | in my case is NeoTron |
| 23:54.50 | Kraps | oh right |
| 23:54.58 | NeoTron | all characters are User@Neotron and forum posts uses NeoTron |
| 23:55.05 | NeoTron | and it's global between CO, STO and forums |
| 23:55.05 | Kraps | i played CO a bit |
| 23:55.14 | NeoTron | it's what Blizzard should have done |
| 23:55.36 | NeoTron | real names is just a can of worms they never should have approached |
| 23:57.36 | kd3 | oh Xyphoid, I've quoted you in the beta general thread about this. |
| 23:57.43 | kd3 | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25626579260&sid=2000&pageNo=10#185 |
| 23:57.48 | kd3 | <3 |
| 23:58.10 | Lopeppeppy | kd3, you're such an agitator! :P |
| 23:59.28 | Gnarfoz | kd3: did you attribute it to his real name? |
| 23:59.38 | kd3 | negative |
| 23:59.47 | Gnarfoz | =( |
