IRC log for #wowuidev on 20100630

`00:15.39`	`Guest21195`	`~zip`
`00:15.40`	`purl`	`Creates PKZIP(tm)-compatible .zip files. URL: ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/infozip/Info-ZIP.html`
`00:15.48`	`Shirik`	`~zipcode`
`00:15.56`	`Shirik`	`~zipcode 32114`
`00:15.57`	`A-KO`	`lol`
`00:15.59`	`Shirik`	`:(`
`00:16.00`	`A-KO`	`ftp.cdrom.com`
`00:16.00`	`A-KO`	`wow`
`00:16.04`	`A-KO`	`is that still around?`
`00:16.13`	`kd3`	`my thoughts entirely`
`00:16.38`	`kd3`	`but uh... getting a html page from an ftp server?`
`00:17.05`	`A-KO`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walnut_Creek_CDROM`
`00:24.32`	`Jerub`	`i had that`
`00:25.18`	`Jerub`	`and prior to owning a 3 disc set, i connected to a bbs where i could download all the files on the first cd and list the files on the second cd.`
`00:25.29`	`Jerub`	`occsionally you would ask the sysadmin to change the cds in his cd drive`
`00:27.22`	`Jerub`	`oh RS is out!`
`00:27.29`	`Jerub`	`what sort of fight is it?`
`00:30.14`	`Thunder_Child`	`there needs to be a lock on the 'lod out of date' button`
`00:30.18`	`Thunder_Child`	`load*`
`00:41.34`	`Seerah`	`~seen industrial`
`00:41.36`	`purl`	`industrial <~industria@194.145.194.227> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowuidev, 5d 12h 21m 10s ago, saying: 'that is all.'.`
`00:42.58`	`Thunder_Child`	`i guess that is all`
`00:43.08`	`Thunder_Child`	`and now i have MASH stuck in my head`
`00:43.10`	`Thunder_Child`	`:(`
`00:43.59`	`Jerub`	`suicide is painless`
`00:56.22`	`Thunder_Child`	`~lart Jerub`
`00:56.22`	`purl`	`whips out a sword and chops Jerub in half`
`00:56.32`	`Jerub`	`that wasn't!`
`00:56.33`	`Jerub`	`ow!`
`00:56.48`	`Thunder_Child`	`it also wasnt suicide`
`00:57.27`	`Thunder_Child`	`~suicide Jerub`
`00:57.28`	`purl`	`ACTION watches Jerub shoot themself in the head after seeing thunder_child commit suicide.`
`00:57.35`	`Thunder_Child`	`errr...`
`00:58.21`	`Jerub`	`<3 Thunder_Child`
`00:58.31`	`Thunder_Child`	`so it would seem`
`01:00.46`	`Wobin`	`lol`
`01:00.47`	`Wobin`	`pwnd`
`01:07.15`	`cog\|away`	`Shirik:`
`01:08.00`	`cogwheel`	`i got a silver badge from your link this morning ><`
`01:08.35`	`Jerub`	`cogwheel: hm?`
`01:08.44`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`~wowalert`
`01:08.45`	`purl`	`http://launcher.worldofwarcraft.com/alert (US); http://status.wow-europe.com/en/alert (EU) [NB: URL goes to 404 unless there's an active alert]`
`01:08.46`	`cogwheel`	`(sorry... just getting him back for all the wikipedia spam)`
`01:08.53`	`cogwheel`	`Jerub: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3144604/stdvectortiterator-it-doesnt-compile/3144609#3144609`
`01:10.44`	`Shirik`	`wtf is a silver badge cogwheel`
`01:10.49`	`Shirik`	`I don't use stack overflow`
`01:10.50`	`cogwheel`	`I NO RITE?`
`01:11.03`	`cogwheel`	`i don't use wikipedia... err... <.<`
`01:11.12`	`cogwheel`	`(well not like you do bow chicka)`
`01:12.10`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`i hereby decree that shirik must answer EVERY question with a wikipedia link, and cogwheel must answer every question with a stackoverflow link.`
`01:12.30`	`Shirik`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:TRUTH`
`01:12.48`	`Thunder_Child`	`and Fisker must answer every question with a 4chan link`
`01:13.03`	`Jerub`	`oh, i didn't realise other people here played SO`
`01:14.11`	`Jerub`	`i'm coming up on my 3rd and 4th 'popular question' badges.`
`01:14.14`	`cogwheel`	`i usually do for about a week and then stop for a while`
`01:14.40`	`cogwheel`	`i have a short attention span ><`
`01:16.32`	`Jerub`	`i still get rep from this answer: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/79968/79985#79985`
`01:17.16`	`Thunder_Child`	`is that a picture of you Jerub?`
`01:17.40`	`Jerub`	`Thunder_Child: yes`
`01:17.45`	`Wobin`	`I got a 'Notable Question'`
`01:17.52`	`Wobin`	`http://stackoverflow.com/users/15010`
`01:18.06`	`Jerub`	`oh nice`
`01:19.10`	`Jerub`	`i didn't realise there was a milestone for 2.5k views`
`01:19.17`	`Jerub`	`i'll hit that on one soon`
`01:19.49`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`if you've set your max fps using /console maxfps, how do you unset it?`
`01:19.59`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`just /console maxfps without a parameter?`
`01:21.37`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`ah, figured it out. it's /console maxfps 0`
`01:30.00`	`cogwheel`	`:\| why would a corrupted cursor persist through X restart?`
`01:30.26`	`Dagmar`	`Disk corruption, broken video card, wrong HardwareCursor setting in X`
`01:30.34`	`Dagmar`	`Probably the latter`
`01:31.02`	`cogwheel`	`well, it spontaneously corrupted, so i'm betting hardware... (ati on linux, after all)`
`01:31.24`	`cogwheel`	`i just thought restarting X would fix it...`
`01:33.17`	`Dagmar`	`If it's the ATI driver messing up, Option "SWcursor" "boolean"`
`01:33.30`	`Dagmar`	`Default is off, turning it on tells X to stop using the dinky hardware blit buffer`
`01:35.10`	`*** join/#wowuidev Heather (~pirate@75-174-83-41.bois.qwest.net)`
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`02:09.06`	`*** join/#wowuidev malreth (~triti@cpe-24-28-9-196.austin.res.rr.com)`
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`02:39.43`	`malreth`	`my wife tells me there's someone trying to start a PuG to do Ruby Sanctum... and they're requiring that people have the achievement already before they invite...`
`02:39.53`	`Jerub`	`malreth: afa`
`02:40.12`	`Shirik`	`malreth: Sounds like pro`
`02:43.08`	`Thunder_Child`	`it's possible to have for one of the others`
`02:43.11`	`Thunder_Child`	`10/25`
`02:43.20`	`Thunder_Child`	`one or the other*`
`02:45.45`	`Slackwise`	`malreth: lol`
`02:45.54`	`Slackwise`	`Speaking of which... http://slackwi.se/live`
`02:46.37`	`malreth`	`my wife plays more WoW than I do... I'll probably never see Ruby Sanctum if i can help it`
`02:46.54`	`cogwheel`	`^`
`02:47.09`	`Slackwise`	`yawns.`
`02:47.21`	`*** join/#wowuidev Alram (~Marla@fabe.xs4all.nl)`
`02:47.52`	`*** join/#wowuidev jacobeiting (~jacobeiti@wsip-98-173-40-5.sd.sd.cox.net)`
`02:54.38`	`Slackwise`	`ALSO`
`02:54.42`	`Slackwise`	`http://www.xfire.com/live_video/xodlike/`
`03:01.02`	`*** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI\|mobile (~KarlKFI@ip68-5-216-156.oc.oc.cox.net)`
`03:07.05`	`*** join/#wowuidev TekNoir (4af9cbc9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.249.203.201)`
`03:09.00`	`*** join/#wowuidev NiLon (nilon@62-113-191-177.bb.dnainternet.fi)`
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`03:14.21`	`Jerub`	`http://www.google.com/trends/hottrends`
`03:14.30`	`Jerub`	`#9 is "ruby sanctum strategy"`
`03:16.06`	`Shirik`	`anyone good with mysql`
`03:16.14`	`Shirik`	`I need to do a case-insensitive test`
`03:16.16`	`Shirik`	`so I did SELECT user_name, user_editcount FROM user WHERE CONVERT(user_name USING utf8) COLLATE utf8_general_ci LIKE "%public policy%";`
`03:16.18`	`Shirik`	`does that look right?`
`03:16.38`	`Jerub`	`meh, sounds good`
`03:18.17`	`Cide`	`no`
`03:18.23`	`Cide`	`pretty sure you need ILIKE`
`03:18.26`	`Cide`	`or maybe that's postgresql`
`03:18.41`	`Jerub`	`Cide: _ci in utf_general_ci means 'case insensitive'`
`03:18.59`	`Cide`	`I see`
`03:19.06`	`Cide`	`such a messy way of doing it`
`03:20.51`	`Cide`	`string comparisons are not case sensitive unless one of the operands is a binary string:`
`03:21.00`	`Cide`	`mysql> SELECT 'abc' LIKE 'ABC';`
`03:21.00`	`Cide`	`<PROTECTED>`
`03:21.40`	`Cide`	`so it appears you don't need that at all`
`03:22.36`	`Jerub`	`Cide: depends on default collation.`
`03:22.43`	`Cide`	`not according to the mysql manual`
`03:22.48`	`Cide`	`at least nothing like that is mentioned`
`03:23.31`	`Jerub`	`that's becasue everyone uses utf8_general_ci. except when they use a swedish collation, which was default for a while.`
`03:25.12`	`Cide`	`so`
`03:25.17`	`Cide`	`what collations are there that aren't _ci`
`03:25.19`	`Cide`	`besides binary`
`03:27.24`	`Jerub`	`Cide: anything _bin`
`03:27.34`	`Cide`	`besides binary?`
`03:28.21`	`Jerub`	`Cide: uh, 'bin' there just really means 'without language'. because if you're not case-folding, you don't have to care about the language.`
`03:28.36`	`Jerub`	`Cide: it doesn't actually mean 'binary data'`
`03:28.50`	`Cide`	`no, but it means binary string in this context`
`03:28.54`	`Cide`	`<Cide> string comparisons are not case sensitive unless one of the operands is a binary string:`
`03:30.09`	`Jerub`	`oh yeah, fair enough, if you define 'binary string' to mean using any of the _bin collations`
`03:30.17`	`Cide`	`well it seems mysql does`
`03:30.20`	`Cide`	`^_^`
`03:31.01`	`Cide`	`since there's no language there's no sense of case sensitivity`
`03:31.19`	`Jerub`	`in the context of collations, binary is equivilent to "no case folding" sure`
`03:32.04`	`Cide`	`I'm not sure why we're arguing besides "I win"`
`03:32.15`	`Cide`	`not that you were wrong but what I said was true`
`03:32.17`	`Cide`	`go me`
`03:32.41`	`Cide`	`and the fact that Shirik most likely but not certainly can drop the collate stuff`
`03:32.52`	`Jerub`	`that depends on the collation user_name was originally in`
`03:33.15`	`Cide`	`hence most likely`
`03:33.26`	`Jerub`	`i was assuming she had a problem that needed to be solved ;)`
`03:33.33`	`Cide`	`SHE`
`03:34.00`	`Jerub`	`oh right, no girls on the internet`
`03:34.03`	`Jerub`	`he had a problem`
`03:34.18`	`Cide`	`while the shirikitty may be feminine in some aspects, Shirik is indeed a man afaik`
`03:34.26`	`Cide`	`at least the whois says so.`
`03:34.32`	`Cide`	`and he has a manly voice`
`03:34.42`	`Cide`	`s/he/it/`
`03:39.23`	`malreth`	`http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/29/technology/29dell.html?ref=technology`
`03:39.43`	`malreth`	`i'm glad Dell is finally getting sued over this shit. they pulled that crap on us for years`
`03:40.03`	`malreth`	`replacing bad motherboards with more bad motherboards instead of just sending us new computers`
`03:40.26`	`Shirik`	`Cide it's a varbinary`
`03:40.37`	`Shirik`	`not a varchar`
`03:41.10`	`cogwheel`	`rofl`
`03:41.16`	`cogwheel`	`vuvuzela button on youtube`
`03:41.37`	`Shirik`	`vuvuzela button?`
`03:42.03`	`cogwheel`	`there's a little soccer ball button next to the resolution selection`
`03:42.14`	`cogwheel`	`at least there is here, for me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEq5sDFzBuc`
`03:42.42`	`malreth`	`cogwheel: ha! me too!`
`03:43.23`	`Shirik`	`where?`
`03:43.49`	`Shirik`	`omg`
`03:43.50`	`Shirik`	`wtf`
`03:45.59`	`cogwheel`	`http://cogwheel.info/upload/files/vuvubutton.png`
`03:46.02`	`cogwheel`	`slow`
`03:49.11`	`Shirik`	`also cogwheel`
`03:49.13`	`Shirik`	`that guy is awesome`
`03:55.30`	`Thunder_Child`	`Shirik: go see page hits on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vuvuzela before 2010 soccer start and after`
`03:55.58`	`Shirik`	`lmao`
`03:55.59`	`Shirik`	`(20:55:49) (SoxBot) vuvuzela has been viewed 1243769 times in 201006. See http://stats.grok.se/en/201006/vuvuzela`
`03:57.00`	`Thunder_Child`	`dear lord, 109K`
`03:57.57`	`Thunder_Child`	`in one day`
`04:00.36`	`kd3`	`wtf`
`04:02.58`	`tekkub`	`I'm pondering changing "Tekkub's Emporium of Random Crap"`
`04:02.59`	`tekkub`	`need ideas`
`04:03.29`	`tekkub`	`would like something shorter, but also to kinda retain the random stupidity of the stuff I make`
`04:05.15`	`cogwheel`	`Tekkub's Eclectiplex`
`04:05.30`	`tekkub`	`oooooo`
`04:05.47`	`tekkub`	`change the c's to k's and that could work`
`04:05.56`	`kd3`	`whee, alex is a hurricane`
`04:08.04`	`ZorbaTHut`	`hmm, is there any convenient way to stop an event from being sent to more frames?`
`04:08.46`	`tekkub`	`Alt-F4?`
`04:08.55`	`tekkub`	`mayb ejust Tekkiplex?`
`04:09.26`	`ZorbaTHut`	`Tekkemporium`
`04:09.43`	`tekkub`	`Tekstravaganza`
`04:10.01`	`ZorbaTHut`	`Tekpocalypse`
`04:10.46`	`tekkub`	`TekWar`
`04:10.48`	`tekkub`	`hides`
`04:10.58`	`ZorbaTHut`	`I was wondering if someone would make that joke`
`04:11.58`	`tekkub`	`I save it for rare occations`
`04:12.23`	`durcyn`	`tekwar exists to prove there is something that bill shatner is worse at than singing or acting`
`04:12.30`	`tekkub`	`lol`
`04:12.35`	`tekkub`	`Tekbits`
`04:12.39`	`tekkub`	`added bonus: nuts!`
`04:12.57`	`*** join/#wowuidev Iriel (~Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)`
`04:12.57`	`*** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ`
`04:13.09`	`durcyn`	`that said, i'm pretty much forced to find a copy of it on p2p now`
`04:13.15`	`*** join/#wowuidev SeanK (~SeanK@pool-98-117-120-73.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net)`
`04:13.43`	`Iriel`	`Hm, does today's patch fix the 64 bit memory issues?`
`04:14.04`	`tekkub`	`there's only one way to find out`
`04:14.04`	`Dewin`	`I hear reports they're still happening with greatly reduced frequency`
`04:14.20`	`Dewin`	`I'm on one of the 4 datacenters that are offline for 24hr maintenance`
`04:14.50`	`Wobin`	`thinks Anna Chapman looks somewhat like Jewel Staite`
`04:14.58`	`ZorbaTHut`	`what were the 64-bit memory issues?`
`04:15.11`	`Wobin`	`crashes`
`04:15.13`	`Wobin`	`black screens`
`04:15.14`	`durcyn`	`ZorbaTHut: lots of happy little leaks`
`04:15.20`	`Dewin`	`They weren't technically just 64-bit memory issues, since I experienced the exact same issues on Win XP 32-bit`
`04:15.26`	`durcyn`	`and some fun nvidia-specific bugs`
`04:15.46`	`Adys`	`ZorbaTHut: They've been in game for years`
`04:15.48`	`Adys`	`since TBC`
`04:15.52`	`Adys`	`they were just not visible easily`
`04:15.54`	`Adys`	`except in wine :)`
`04:16.06`	`kd3`	`>.>`
`04:16.07`	`ZorbaTHut`	`huh, on 64-bit systems? that's quite strange`
`04:16.44`	`Adys`	`ZorbaTHut: virtual memory issues or something iirc`
`04:17.02`	`tekkub`	`TekTwaddle`
`04:17.24`	`Dewin`	`There was some sort of memory leak in the graphics subsysteme`
`04:17.28`	`ZorbaTHut`	`that really just shouldn't exist, 64-bit and 32-bit systems are nigh-identical if the binary is 32-bit`
`04:17.43`	`Dewin`	`and... I keep having to tell people this, they weren't really 64-bit issues...`
`04:17.46`	`Wobin`	`Tek-Knowledgick`
`04:17.47`	`Adys`	`ZorbaTHut: http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15665`
`04:18.11`	`ZorbaTHut`	`that looks like a wine bug, not a 64-bit bug :P`
`04:18.16`	`tekkub`	`TekNoLogic ... that's got some real potential there`
`04:18.25`	`Adys`	`ZorbaTHut: it's the same issue really`
`04:18.33`	`Dewin`	`kind of like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKji7M4Wpec&feature=related ?`
`04:18.46`	`ZorbaTHut`	`the wine bug looks like Wine is just eating way too much of the address space`
`04:18.50`	`ZorbaTHut`	`that doesn't have anything to do with 64-bit processors`
`04:19.04`	`ZorbaTHut`	`that's just "hey, there's only so much address space"`
`04:19.18`	`Adys`	`um`
`04:19.21`	`ZorbaTHut`	`(ironically it would not be a problem with a true 64-bit build)`
`04:19.22`	`Adys`	`its not a 64bit issue`
`04:19.27`	`Adys`	`its just more easily visible on 64bit`
`04:19.46`	`ZorbaTHut`	`ah, that makes a little more sense`
`04:20.17`	`ZorbaTHut`	`still, that's wine, not wow :P`
`04:20.29`	`Adys`	`Wine also made it more visible :)`
`04:20.34`	`*** join/#wowuidev Blia (~unknown@vno44-1-88-172-189-200.fbx.proxad.net)`
`04:20.40`	`Adys`	`because of the way it reserved memory`
`04:20.44`	`Adys`	`but that part has been fixed`
`04:20.57`	`Blia`	`hi`
`04:21.06`	`Adys`	`Hello`
`04:22.15`	`Blia`	`does someone know an addon that would let me load addons but per charater ? Because, I have several characters and each time I want to play one, I have to unselect some addons this character doesn't need to use.`
`04:22.41`	`Dewin`	`Blia: You can do that from the main login screen`
`04:22.42`	`Jerub`	`Blia: ... World of Warcraft`
`04:22.53`	`tekkub`	`Use better addons and AddonLoader`
`04:22.58`	`Dewin`	`There's a dropdown for "Show addons for -> Everyone", change everyone to the character in question`
`04:22.58`	`kd3`	`wow does that. there's a drop down in the addons window, select your character and enable/disable mods`
`04:22.58`	`tekkub`	`:P`
`04:23.04`	`Dewin`	`Or use AddonControlPanel like I do`
`04:23.14`	`Blia`	`ok`
`04:23.16`	`Blia`	`thank you`
`04:25.45`	`eidolarr`	`Iriel: what was that gem for using luac to see global exposure?`
`04:28.44`	`nevcairiel`	`luac -l -p \| grep ?ETGLOBAL ? :)`
`04:29.43`	`Iriel`	`That's the one`
`04:29.58`	`nevcairiel`	`insert filename befoer the pipe`
`04:30.14`	`eidolarr`	`thanks`
`04:30.28`	`*** join/#wowuidev Aeyan (~pancake@cpe-174-098-002-214.triad.res.rr.com)`
`04:33.59`	`cogwheel`	`http://cakecentral.com/cake-photo-547383.html omnomnom`
`04:34.47`	`Wobin`	`cogwheel: that's disturbingly detailed for a 3" figure`
`04:34.47`	`*** join/#wowuidev Aeyan\| (~pancake@cpe-174-098-002-214.triad.res.rr.com)`
`04:35.32`	`cogwheel`	`also waffles on a stick... http://i.imgur.com/WVzOI.jpg`
`04:36.17`	`Blia`	`hehe`
`04:36.20`	`nevcairiel`	`they sell somethign similar to that at the train station here, but the waffles are bigger .. but still with a stick :D`
`04:41.21`	`*** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~callahan@74-141-246-74.dhcp.insightbb.com)`
`04:41.32`	`*** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree)`
`04:48.40`	`*** join/#wowuidev Aeyan (~pancake@cpe-174-098-002-214.triad.res.rr.com)`
`04:49.54`	`Kraps`	`http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AvY..s1aALMLHhaArSCYmn0J53NG;_ylv=3?qid=20100627223352AA8AABm`
`04:54.53`	`eidolarr`	`Kraps: "make him suck it" excellent`
`04:58.55`	`*** part/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@c-98-251-190-189.hsd1.tn.comcast.net)`
`05:02.13`	`*** join/#wowuidev taroven\|Rawr (~taroven\|C@HW-ESR1-208-102-8-69.fuse.net)`
`05:11.16`	`*** join/#wowuidev bryno (~bryno@unaffiliated/bryno)`
`05:17.35`	`durcyn`	`oi, osx takes mobileme accounts as valid file-sharing authentication regardless of other permissions, principle of least astonishment ignored again.`
`05:18.08`	`Adys`	`http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/06/29/1840241/Hack-ATampT-Voicemail-With-Android?from=rss`
`05:18.16`	`Adys`	`WAH WAH ITS ANDROIDS FAULT`
`05:18.38`	`Adys`	`I bet banks are responsible for people breaking in to appartments with credit cards.`
`05:19.43`	`durcyn`	`typical pandering non-question in a slashdot summary, reminds me why i unsubscribed from their rss feed`
`05:25.49`	`Adys`	`im still subscribed because some articles are itneresting`
`05:25.57`	`Adys`	`but this kdawson dude is a complete moronic douchebag`
`05:26.49`	`eidolarr`	`I prefer hacker news`
`05:26.56`	`*** join/#wowuidev CodeRedLin (~grivell@c-68-45-212-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)`
`05:28.18`	`Adys`	`I think it's sane google is subject to so much controversy and complaints, as invalid as they are`
`05:29.13`	`Adys`	`it pushes people to watch them extremely closely and by nominae forces google to behave even more cleanly and carefully`
`05:29.23`	`durcyn`	`it's reasonable to mention the issue. it's not reasonable to follow up the half-assed summary with a leading question that implicates google in some at&t security issue for the sole purpose of tabloid-style headline fuckery`
`05:29.42`	`Adys`	`but god it's disgusting to see these people actually believe the garbage they eat out of their own colons.`
`05:30.00`	`eidolarr`	`talk about mixing metaphors`
`05:30.16`	`Adys`	`I love mixing me some taphors`
`05:30.19`	`durcyn`	`sounded more like a human centipede reference to me`
`05:31.38`	`Adys`	`http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1698`
`05:31.42`	`eidolarr`	`why do people love thinkpads?`
`05:31.46`	`*** part/#wowuidev Adys (~Adys@unaffiliated/adys)`
`05:31.51`	`*** join/#wowuidev Adys (~Adys@unaffiliated/adys)`
`05:33.28`	`eidolarr`	`it seems like everyone who doesn't have windows wants or has one`
`05:33.31`	`eidolarr`	`except mac obv`
`05:33.51`	`ZorbaTHut`	`man, is there anyone who doesn't pick the smallest horse they can find in the DK starting zone?`
`05:34.13`	`Adys`	`You just went from "everyone" to a small percentage of the laptop community in two sentences eidolarr`
`05:34.14`	`Adys`	`:p`
`05:34.18`	`*** join/#wowuidev taroven\|Grr (~taroven\|C@HW-ESR1-208-102-8-69.fuse.net)`
`05:34.31`	`eidolarr`	`fair enough`
`05:34.36`	`eidolarr`	`lots of windows users too`
`05:34.53`	`eidolarr`	`"technical people" might be a better phrase than "almost everyone"`
`05:36.57`	`*** join/#wowuidev taroven (~taroven\|C@HW-ESR1-208-102-8-69.fuse.net)`
`05:37.36`	`*** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~callahan@74-141-246-74.dhcp.insightbb.com)`
`05:38.07`	`eidolarr`	`"The goal of LLDB is to provide an amazing debugging experience that âjust worksâ." hahaha oh apple`
`05:38.55`	`eidolarr`	`tomorrow: the goal of the new machintosh is to provide a microkernel that "just works"`
`05:42.25`	`*** join/#wowuidev durcyn (~durcyn@WoWUIDev/Durcyn)`
`05:49.12`	`*** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~callahan@74-141-246-74.dhcp.insightbb.com)`
`05:53.21`	`*** join/#wowuidev Jiyambi (18133bd4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.19.59.212)`
`05:55.51`	`Adys`	`I love my cpu`
`05:56.28`	`Adys`	`an -O3 full make of (distcleaned) wine takes 3 mins :)`
`06:00.44`	`Jerub`	`Adys: now try pypy :P`
`06:01.00`	`Adys`	`Holy freaking crap`
`06:01.08`	`Adys`	`200 fps in d3d11`
`06:01.43`	`Jerub`	`eidolarr: thinkpads are awesome. i have one`
`06:01.55`	`Jerub`	`eidolarr: best pointing device, best keyboard.`
`06:03.51`	`*** join/#wowuidev smcn (smcn@c-174-52-104-121.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)`
`06:05.50`	`Fisker`	`i disagree Adys`
`06:05.59`	`Fisker`	`D3D11 support doesn't even work here`
`06:06.12`	`Fisker`	`the game just crashes instantly when logging in`
`06:06.28`	`Adys`	`yeah it reverts to d3d10 here because of missing features`
`06:06.59`	`Jerub`	`http://bash.org/?924892`
`06:07.41`	`Adys`	`This is interesting ...`
`06:07.52`	`Adys`	`i could probably track down a performance leak like this`
`06:07.55`	`Adys`	`in terrain rendering`
`06:09.47`	`Adys`	`Fisker`
`06:09.51`	`Adys`	`85 fps with shadows on`
`06:10.03`	`Fisker`	`:(`
`06:10.14`	`Adys`	`well at 7/8`
`06:10.23`	`Adys`	`8/8 jumps me back down to 25 fps`
`06:10.51`	`Fisker`	`isn't that beyond what you can set in the slider?`
`06:11.03`	`Adys`	`well one less anyway`
`06:11.06`	`Adys`	`i dont know how many there are`
`06:14.26`	`Fisker`	`does it increase performance to change btw?`
`06:14.52`	`Adys`	`Fisker: change to?`
`06:15.11`	`Fisker`	`d3d11/10`
`06:15.27`	`Adys`	`not sure tbh, i just recompiled with optimizations`
`06:15.45`	`Adys`	`CC="ccache gcc-4.4 -msse4 -march=native -mtune=native -O3"`
`06:15.46`	`Adys`	`\o/`
`06:16.01`	`Fisker`	`damn linux!`
`06:16.02`	`Fisker`	`:P`
`06:16.08`	`Fisker`	`reminds me`
`06:16.17`	`Fisker`	`i better disable my blank loginscreen`
`06:16.30`	`Fisker`	`can never know how petty Blizzard is about model changes in the new warden :P`
`06:20.31`	`*** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@pool019.vpn.uni-saarland.de)`
`06:20.31`	`*** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano)`
`06:24.37`	`Shirik`	`how the hell do you send bags to a trial account`
`06:25.22`	`Jerub`	`Shirik: /trade ?`
`06:25.31`	`Shirik`	`trial accounts cannot perform that action`
`06:25.40`	`Jerub`	`Shirik: lol`
`06:25.58`	`ZorbaTHut`	`might be able to mail to it`
`06:26.04`	`ZorbaTHut`	`though note that you won't be able to mail back`
`06:26.16`	`olafski`	`you can't mail to a trial account either I think`
`06:26.20`	`Iriel`	`Can you trade when you're grouped?`
`06:26.56`	`Adys`	`trade limit was there to prevent goldsellers from passing gold on to trial accs iirc`
`06:26.59`	`Adys`	`so i suppose not`
`06:27.37`	`olafski`	`aye`
`06:27.50`	`olafski`	`when I started the game my gf couldn't comp me a mount or bags either +(`
`06:28.09`	`olafski`	`eh, mount is irrelevant I guess`
`06:34.46`	`Fisker`	`there's no way of transferring shit with a trial`
`06:34.51`	`Fisker`	`upgrade or no deal`
`06:37.21`	`*** join/#wowuidev Fierceflame (~timo.meij@ip231-37-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl)`
`06:44.30`	`*** join/#wowuidev Jamash (~chatzilla@99-92-174-69.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net)`
`06:44.37`	`*** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (~Vilkku@86-60-145-155-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi)`
`06:46.22`	`Shirik`	`does wiktionary have any standards at all?`
`06:46.41`	`Shirik`	`nom`
`06:46.43`	`Shirik`	`Used to denote eating, or enjoyment of eating.`
`06:46.43`	`Shirik`	`[to a baby] You are so cute, I could just eat you right up! Nom nom nom.`
`06:46.43`	`Shirik`	`Commonly used as "om nom nom".`
`06:46.54`	`Jamash`	`http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/standards`
`06:46.56`	`Shadowed`	`hahah`
`06:47.25`	`Jamash`	`it's no like anyone actually uses wiktionary`
`06:47.37`	`Jamash`	`s/no/not/`
`06:50.41`	`*** join/#wowuidev Kandoko1 (~Kandoko@adsl-068-159-119-207.sip.gsp.bellsouth.net)`
`06:50.44`	`*** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (~Kandoko@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko)`
`06:58.06`	`Adys`	`Arrowmaster: you here?`
`06:58.14`	`Arrowmaster`	`yes`
`06:59.05`	`Adys`	`Arrowmaster: you remember when I asked you about not being able to build nvidia drivers due to an error with nvidia.ko?`
`06:59.39`	`Adys`	`something about blacklisting a bunch of drivers in modprobe.d.. but it didn't work, I tried something else`
`06:59.43`	`Adys`	`and i dont remember what :\`
`07:00.26`	`Fisker`	`i think i got it`
`07:00.29`	`Fisker`	`you installed Windows`
`07:00.30`	`Fisker`	`:3`
`07:01.23`	`Adys`	`going through logs atm`
`07:01.54`	`Arrowmaster`	`Adys: the only correct way to get nvidia drivers working on ubuntu is to use ubuntus gui entry to installing them`
`07:02.10`	`Adys`	`well on my desktop they currently work`
`07:02.14`	`Adys`	`im using 256.xx`
`07:03.09`	`Arrowmaster`	`256.xx? is that a new beta or something?`
`07:03.18`	`Adys`	`nop, it's a new release from a couple weeks back`
`07:03.26`	`Adys`	`very good perf boost too`
`07:04.32`	`Arrowmaster`	`and ubuntu has that packaged?`
`07:04.46`	`*** join/#wowuidev Thrae (~ircuser@generalmx-1-pt.tunnel.tserv13.ash1.ipv6.he.net)`
`07:05.15`	`Adys`	`No`
`07:05.20`	`Adys`	`I use the official ones`
`07:05.22`	`Adys`	`(on my desktop)`
`07:05.24`	`Arrowmaster`	`there is your problem`
`07:05.37`	`Adys`	`I dont have a problem`
`07:05.42`	`Adys`	`it's on my laptop it doesnt work`
`07:05.48`	`*** join/#wowuidev sylvaan (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar)`
`07:06.11`	`Adys`	`seriously i swear before lucid i didnt have a single issue ever with installing the official ones`
`07:07.29`	`Adys`	`oh`
`07:07.32`	`Adys`	`i think i remember what i did`
`07:07.33`	`Adys`	`sec`
`07:08.31`	`Arrowmaster`	`in #debian if anybody has issues with the official nvidia installer they get told 'fix it yourself'`
`07:09.29`	`Adys`	`the official driver is no good`
`07:09.34`	`Fisker`	`hey`
`07:09.37`	`Adys`	`it's never getting activated`
`07:09.38`	`Adys`	`er`
`07:09.42`	`Adys`	`the packaged one, sorry`
`07:10.13`	`Fisker`	`maybe you'll get good drivers when Valf releases Steam on Linux`
`07:10.16`	`Arrowmaster`	`the packaged one in ubuntu only works if you install it the correct way`
`07:10.37`	`Arrowmaster`	`because those fucking morons cant create proper .deb packages`
`07:11.30`	`Adys`	`what would the correct way be?`
`07:11.35`	`Adys`	`Fisker: the drivers are amazing`
`07:11.40`	`Adys`	`the fuckups are on ubuntu's side`
`07:11.44`	`Fisker`	`:(`
`07:12.24`	`Arrowmaster`	`correct way being have the .deb's scripts do create the symlinks instead of having their gui do it`
`07:14.57`	`Fisker`	`umad Arrowmaster`
`07:21.20`	`*** join/#wowuidev bryno (~bryno@cpe-67-11-189-252.satx.res.rr.com)`
`07:21.20`	`*** join/#wowuidev bryno (~bryno@unaffiliated/bryno)`
`07:24.29`	`Adys`	`Arrowmaster: http://dpaste.com/213118/`
`07:24.31`	`Adys`	`makes no sense`
`07:27.14`	`Arrowmaster`	`and what does that other log it mentions say`
`07:27.34`	`Adys`	`that's the log`
`07:28.11`	`Arrowmaster`	`do you have the kernel headers installed?`
`07:29.04`	`Adys`	`yeah, I managed to compile 195 a few weeks back`
`07:29.06`	`Adys`	`brb a sec`
`07:31.24`	`Adys`	`Arrowmaster: modprobe -l says /kernel/drivers/video/nvidia.ko and /kernel/drivers/video/nvidia/nvidiafb.ko are both active`
`07:31.43`	`Fisker`	`Arrowmaster`
`07:31.50`	`Arrowmaster`	`Adys: cat /proc/cmdline`
`07:32.02`	`Adys`	`BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-2.6.32-22-generic root=UUID=25a1e1b2-65b2-42f0-9a17-7d661e73960a ro quiet splash`
`07:33.00`	`Maldivia`	`uhh, Adys takes commandline input now! :P`
`07:33.11`	`Adys`	`command not found`
`07:33.33`	`Arrowmaster`	`Adys: modprobe -l lists all available modules`
`07:33.39`	`Arrowmaster`	`use lsmod to list loaded one`
`07:33.48`	`Adys`	`ah`
`07:34.09`	`Adys`	`nothing interesting in lsmod`
`07:34.35`	`Arrowmaster`	`is nouveau (sp) loaded?`
`07:34.36`	`batbot`	`Arrowmaster, nouveau is correct.`
`07:34.44`	`Adys`	`lol batbot`
`07:34.49`	`Adys`	`no, I uninstalled it even`
`07:35.00`	`Arrowmaster`	`you cant uninstall it`
`07:35.32`	`Adys`	`uhm`
`07:35.41`	`Adys`	`sudo apt-get purge xserver-xorg-video-nouveau`
`07:35.51`	`Arrowmaster`	`thats only the xorg module`
`07:36.03`	`Adys`	`well its not in lsmod at least`
`07:36.05`	`Arrowmaster`	`not the fucking kernel module that breaks the nvidia driver`
`07:36.23`	`Arrowmaster`	`then i have no fucking clue`
`07:36.27`	`Arrowmaster`	`im going back to my game`
`07:36.33`	`Adys`	`kay`
`07:40.03`	`Jamash`	`nvidia and ati need to stop pretending their drivers are good and gpl them`
`07:40.27`	`Adys`	`nvidia's drivers ARE good`
`07:40.36`	`Jamash`	`mm-hmm`
`07:45.54`	`Arrowmaster`	`no they arent`
`07:46.07`	`Arrowmaster`	`they have tons of issues with compositing`
`07:48.54`	`Fisker`	`imma fuck you up Arrowmaster`
`07:49.17`	`*** join/#wowuidev Aeyan\| (~pancake@cpe-174-098-002-214.triad.res.rr.com)`
`07:49.52`	`Adys`	`Arrowmaster: do you know why the nvidia package needs dkms/fakeroot?`
`07:50.17`	`Fisker`	`http://gizmodo.com/5574993/foxconn-is-installing-safety-nets-on-buildings <-hahaha`
`07:53.17`	`Jerub`	`http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/06/26/2937814.htm`
`07:53.53`	`Jerub`	`Adys: dkms is so it can build a new kernel module when you update the kernel`
`07:54.14`	`Adys`	`and fakeroot?`
`07:54.28`	`Jerub`	`Adys: fakeroot is generally used so that compressed archives can be created that have files with root permissions or devices in them.`
`07:55.10`	`Fisker`	`i faked my root Jerub`
`07:55.13`	`Jerub`	`Adys: i.e. to build a fancy package with fancy permissions inside it you can use fakeroot so you don't need real-root.`
`07:55.56`	`Adys`	`Arrowmaster: apparently, "no symbol version for module_layout" is when kernel dev headers are not installed.. but they are`
`07:56.11`	`Arrowmaster`	`are they the correct version?`
`07:56.16`	`Adys`	`yeah`
`07:56.22`	`Adys`	`linux-headers-2.6.32-22-generic is already the newest version.`
`07:56.29`	`Adys`	`adys@rubis:~$ uname -r`
`07:56.29`	`Adys`	`2.6.32-22-generic`
`07:58.24`	`Fisker`	`so i will find you Jerub`
`07:59.38`	`Adys`	`Arrowmaster: actually i even have the sources installed since i was compiling some other kernel module on this laptop`
`08:02.33`	`*** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net)`
`08:08.34`	`*** join/#wowuidev Kaso (~Kaso@89.240.5.140)`
`08:09.18`	`Fisker`	`i want gaem Arrowmaster`
`08:09.19`	`Fisker`	`gaaaaaaaaaem`
`08:10.35`	`*** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net)`
`08:13.59`	`Adys`	`Arrowmaster: yeah the ubuntu module sucks just as bad`
`08:13.59`	`Adys`	`sec`
`08:14.13`	`Adys`	`http://dpaste.com/213132/`
`08:14.26`	`miica`	`empty table aint weak value? :o`
`08:15.35`	`Adys`	`miica: are you asking whether empty tables are false?`
`08:16.14`	`Adys`	`lua> false or {} or "" or 0 or 1`
`08:16.15`	`lua_bot`	`Adys: table: 0x9010730`
`08:16.21`	`miica`	`http://pastebin.com/QK9dgcs0 should be collected?`
`08:16.29`	`Adys`	`oh`
`08:16.39`	`Adys`	`why do you run gc yourself?`
`08:16.58`	`miica`	`because i want force it to collect? because i am testing+`
`08:17.20`	`Adys`	`uh fair enough but in 99.9% of cases its a bad idea`
`08:17.27`	`Jamash`	`damn it what's that site that shows how many people take each talent`
`08:17.35`	`*** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (~kalroth@mail1.retailplanit.com)`
`08:17.38`	`*** join/#wowuidev Schnaks (~Schnaks@p4FC4E215.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`08:17.41`	`Adys`	`Jamash: howpopularisthattalent.com`
`08:17.58`	`Jamash`	`slaps Adys upside the head with a rainbow trout.`
`08:18.06`	`Adys`	`yay rainbows`
`08:18.41`	`miica`	`so it is only collected if value is nil?`
`08:19.11`	`Adys`	`yes`
`08:22.26`	`krka`	`miica: you misspelled __mode`
`08:22.54`	`*** join/#wowuidev cyndis (cyndis@lakka.kapsi.fi)`
`08:22.54`	`krka`	`otherwise your code works`
`08:23.14`	`miica`	`oh nice :o`
`08:24.02`	`miica`	`now i see it how it works :)`
`08:25.17`	`*** join/#wowuidev pnorman (~pnorman@d66-183-42-220.bchsia.telus.net)`
`08:25.48`	`miica`	`krka: it is only weak when it is nil or empty or?`
`08:26.20`	`krka`	`i can't understand your question`
`08:27.34`	`miica`	`nvm :P`
`08:32.55`	`*** join/#wowuidev Warloco (~theunknow@abarelds.xs4all.nl)`
`08:34.59`	`krka`	`i recommend reading the chapter in PIL about weak tables`
`08:35.07`	`*** join/#wowuidev Caleb\| (~caleb@dsl4E5C059D.pool.t-online.hu)`
`08:37.02`	`*** join/#wowuidev taroven\|Rawr (~taroven\|C@HW-ESR1-208-102-8-69.fuse.net)`
`08:42.08`	`Fisker`	`~wowalert`
`08:42.08`	`purl`	`http://launcher.worldofwarcraft.com/alert (US); http://status.wow-europe.com/en/alert (EU) [NB: URL goes to 404 unless there's an active alert]`
`08:52.27`	`*** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys)`
`08:57.02`	`*** join/#wowuidev taroven\|Grr (~taroven\|C@HW-ESR1-208-102-8-69.fuse.net)`
`09:04.50`	`*** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub)`
`09:04.50`	`*** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ`
`09:05.20`	`Jerub`	`sigh. i hate seeing dodgy ads on good sites`
`09:05.27`	`Jerub`	`dbm's site is advertising T10s`
`09:06.03`	`*** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys)`
`09:08.36`	`Warloco`	`wtb DXE update :[`
`09:10.43`	`*** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree)`
`09:10.44`	`Fisker`	`why is everything Blizzard makes stupid?`
`09:11.58`	`olafski`	`so that it fits the target audience? ;)`
`09:13.25`	`Fisker`	`touche`
`09:13.30`	`Fisker`	`added parental controls to my own account`
`09:13.41`	`Fisker`	`figuring i could just disable them afterwards(like you always could)`
`09:13.45`	`Fisker`	`DENIEEEEEEEED`
`09:14.54`	`Warloco`	`loool`
`09:22.56`	`Fisker`	`hey it said it could tell me how much of a loser my son was`
`09:23.10`	`Fisker`	`"lolol Fisker played for 200 hours last week"`
`09:28.30`	`Jamash`	`I run Xfire to track that stuff`
`09:36.06`	`*** join/#wowuidev brykrys_ (~chatzilla@cpc2-craw2-0-0-cust1062.croy.cable.virginmedia.com)`
`09:44.53`	`Adys`	`http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/6/30/incredible-savings/`
`09:48.28`	`Jamash`	`indeed`
`09:52.03`	`*** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys)`
`09:52.34`	`*** join/#wowuidev Wobin (~quassel@124-170-250-210.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
`10:01.56`	`*** join/#wowuidev Pneumatus (~WiN@unaffiliated/pneumatus)`
`10:03.15`	`Fisker`	`their new service is fucked up`
`10:03.56`	`Fisker`	`If you at any point don't renew the subscription, besides for some avatar, themes and shit, everything free you had accumulated during the period would just be gon`
`10:04.00`	`Fisker`	`gone*`
`10:23.02`	`*** part/#wowuidev Warloco (~theunknow@abarelds.xs4all.nl)`
`10:24.04`	`*** join/#wowuidev Warloco (~theunknow@abarelds.xs4all.nl)`
`10:24.15`	`*** part/#wowuidev Warloco (~theunknow@abarelds.xs4all.nl)`
`10:25.01`	`*** join/#wowuidev Alram (~Marla@fabe.xs4all.nl)`
`10:31.26`	`Adys`	`Cairenn\|afk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqafYTKBpss&NR=1`
`10:32.44`	`msoul`	`did they extend the server maintenance for eu?`
`10:32.47`	`Adys`	`yes`
`10:32.56`	`msoul`	`cheers`
`10:34.42`	`Fisker`	`duh`
`10:35.33`	`Spejnar`	`ofc they did, 6 years of practice aint enough`
`10:40.50`	`ZorbaTHut`	`could be worse, we could be playing eve online`
`10:41.08`	`ZorbaTHut`	`I'm not sure those guys ever managed to finish maintenance on time`
`10:41.23`	`ZorbaTHut`	`and they had an hour of downtime every single day`
`10:46.53`	`*** join/#wowuidev xabo (~xabo@39.80-203-83.nextgentel.com)`
`10:52.52`	`amro`	`ZorbaTHut: are you talking about the daily maintenance?`
`10:53.06`	`amro`	`tranquility was usually up 5 to 10 minutes already`
`10:53.11`	`amro`	`s/already/early/`
`10:54.47`	`*** join/#wowuidev Warloco (~theunknow@abarelds.xs4all.nl)`
`10:56.08`	`ZorbaTHut`	`yeah, I'm exaggerating a bit. still, it's depressing how often it randomly wasn't`
`10:56.16`	`ZorbaTHut`	`and any actual patch days were guaranteed to be 4+ hours late`
`10:56.31`	`ZorbaTHut`	`I mean, after they said "patching will take 12 hours", it was still literally never up on time.`
`10:57.16`	`amro`	`I blame volcanoes`
`10:57.55`	`Kaso`	`these companies need to learn to over-estimate, then everyone will be happy about how awesome they are when they do it quicker than expected!`
`10:58.26`	`Fisker`	`i sneezed ZorbaTHut`
`11:06.41`	`Wobin`	`Zorba is pretty big.`
`11:06.43`	`Wobin`	`Did it hurt?`
`11:11.42`	`ZorbaTHut`	`well it wasn't a picnic coming out, let me tell you`
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`11:13.33`	`Warloco`	`Lo Taroven`
`11:21.38`	`Wobin`	`ZorbaTHut: better out than in, I always say`
`11:22.22`	`*** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@d86-33-7-18.cust.tele2.at)`
`11:25.47`	`*** join/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk)`
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`11:29.07`	`*** mode/#wowuidev [+v Esamynn\|Away] by ChanServ`
`11:29.52`	`Fisker`	`slaps Wobin around a bit with a large trout`
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`11:38.54`	`A-KO`	`http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD-0pqZg`
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`12:01.25`	`olafski`	`can anyone recomment a simple free dvd burning tool for windows xp? my gf needs to burn some stuff on her last day of work +)`
`12:02.51`	`olafski`	`hm went with CD Burner XP, looks okay I guess`
`12:05.13`	`Kaso`	`Whats wrong with the built in tool?`
`12:05.20`	`foxlit`	`It might not do DVDs`
`12:05.24`	`foxlit`	`But I'm not sure whether that's the case`
`12:10.02`	`*** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (~chatzilla@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk)`
`12:10.35`	`*** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht)`
`12:11.50`	`olafski`	`it didn't work, she tried both burners`
`12:11.57`	`olafski`	`got something about "an error occured while copying"`
`12:12.45`	`olafski`	`bleh the PC she's working on doesn't have the .NET frameworks.. oh well +)`
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`12:54.54`	`sylvanaar_atwork`	`has EU been patched finally?`
`12:57.51`	`Fisker`	`yes`
`12:57.54`	`Fisker`	`but servers are down`
`12:57.58`	`Fisker`	`lold @ people though`
`12:58.06`	`Fisker`	`There's been like 4 or 5 topics about`
`12:58.13`	`Fisker`	`OMG I'M BREAKING THE EULA BY CROSS FACTION COMMUNICATION`
`12:58.17`	`Fisker`	`And they're fucking serious`
`12:58.23`	`Fisker`	`not even trolling on the wording`
`13:05.28`	`*** join/#wowuidev Odlaw (ozzy@c-98-245-3-204.hsd1.co.comcast.net)`
`13:08.30`	`*** join/#wowuidev harl (harl@dslb-088-077-211-104.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`13:08.36`	`Zyn`	`cause idiocy runs deep`
`13:09.53`	`Kalroth`	`DERP`
`13:10.00`	`harl`	`hi`
`13:10.12`	`Kalroth`	`hi harl best harl`
`13:10.55`	`harl`	`:)`
`13:11.41`	`bluspacecow`	`wow seriously /`
`13:11.44`	`bluspacecow`	`damn.`
`13:12.13`	`*** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@c-68-33-146-13.hsd1.md.comcast.net)`
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`13:18.15`	`*** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (~Lopeppepp@141.222.29.18)`
`13:18.15`	`*** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ`
`13:23.56`	`*** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy_ (~stolenleg@d86-33-7-18.cust.tele2.at)`
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`13:33.23`	`Wobin`	`http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ-qLFxeBjE`
`13:33.24`	`Wobin`	`<3`
`13:34.13`	`Fisker`	`Wobin`
`13:34.15`	`Fisker`	`i love you`
`13:35.00`	`Fisker`	`old btw`
`13:51.01`	`Kraps`	`"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." -- Pablo Picasso`
`13:57.44`	`Kaso`	`I always forget Picasso was alive in the 70's`
`14:00.32`	`Wobin`	`=\ half the year has gone`
`14:00.35`	`Wobin`	`where has it gone to?`
`14:00.40`	`Kraps`	`http://www.box.net/shared/br46dmeo6v`
`14:03.18`	`Shirik`	`wtf is proposition 19`
`14:03.24`	`foxlit`	`Hm, a 20 mb patch`
`14:03.53`	`foxlit`	`Were you living under a rock a year or so ago? :)`
`14:04.00`	`Shirik`	`:(`
`14:04.14`	`foxlit`	`california ban on gay something or other.`
`14:04.25`	`Wobin`	`isn't that Prop 8?`
`14:04.27`	`foxlit`	`Or not.`
`14:04.32`	`Kraps`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prop_19`
`14:04.55`	`foxlit`	`returns to his lair below the rock.`
`14:05.17`	`Kraps`	`hands foxlit some grass`
`14:05.38`	`Kaso`	`Wobin: isnt tommorrow / day after half way through year`
`14:07.44`	`foxlit`	`Heh, extended maintenance.`
`14:07.57`	`foxlit`	`Kaso: tomorrow is the first of july`
`14:08.16`	`foxlit`	`One could reason that January - June is one half, and July - December is the other half of a year`
`14:08.30`	`foxlit`	`[Ignoring the calendar abomination that is February]`
`14:10.29`	`Kaso`	`lol`
`14:10.36`	`Kaso`	`182.5 is half a year`
`14:10.41`	`Kaso`	`today is the 181st day`
`14:11.38`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Okay. Kaso, you cut the cake, but foxlit gets to choose which piece he eats.`
`14:14.42`	`Shirik`	`huggles Lopeppeppy`
`14:16.07`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Morning, Shirik.`
`14:16.50`	`*** join/#wowuidev malreth (~triti@dhcp-128-83-186-188.its.utexas.edu)`
`14:17.45`	`*** join/#wowuidev zmigliozzi (~zmigliozz@74-136-192-2.dhcp.insightbb.com)`
`14:17.48`	`alestane`	`would offer Lopeppeppy squash with homemade tomato sauce, if she liked it.`
`14:18.29`	`mikma`	`most of the world safe: http://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/multitasking.jpg`
`14:19.03`	`Shirik`	`NSFS`
`14:19.38`	`Grum`	`not suitable for stupids?`
`14:19.39`	`zenzelezz`	`S?`
`14:19.46`	`alestane`	`Not safe for sanity?`
`14:19.47`	`Lopeppeppy`	`I will eat the squash.`
`14:19.57`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Not safe for joke that was never funny.`
`14:20.23`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Y'all have an excellent day.`
`14:20.52`	`Shirik`	`~nsfs`
`14:20.53`	`purl`	`it has been said that nsfs is not safe for shirik`
`14:24.05`	`Fisker`	`http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=13816835288&postId=138155336126&sid=1#2 <-too much?`
`14:28.04`	`alestane`	`If you have to ask, probably.`
`14:29.51`	`Fisker`	`i liked it though`
`14:30.10`	`Fisker`	`players whining over what has been the life of raiding for the last 5,5 years now`
`14:31.39`	`Shirik`	`I swear`
`14:31.46`	`Shirik`	`UPS must be the most inefficient service ever`
`14:32.03`	`Fisker`	`i disagree`
`14:32.06`	`Shirik`	`two packages leave the same store going to the same place on the same day`
`14:32.15`	`Shirik`	`they are currently in two different states`
`14:32.30`	`zenzelezz`	`same size?`
`14:32.41`	`Fisker`	`http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/30/apple-hiring-iphone-antenna-engineers-for-some-reason/ xD`
`14:32.43`	`Shirik`	`yes`
`14:32.47`	`alestane`	`mikma, a simple NSFW tag is sufficient, or a more specific description like [Nudity].`
`14:32.49`	`zenzelezz`	`sent on same time, not only same day?`
`14:32.49`	`Shirik`	`it's basically the same order`
`14:32.52`	`Shirik`	`yes`
`14:33.05`	`Shirik`	`hell`
`14:33.11`	`Shirik`	`US06/28/20108:10 P.M.BILLING INFORMATION RECEIVED`
`14:33.33`	`Fisker`	`you have been disagree with Shirik`
`14:33.37`	`Fisker`	`disagreed*`
`14:33.56`	`Shirik`	`My favorite one, though`
`14:34.01`	`Shirik`	`last week, my roommate placed an order`
`14:34.08`	`Shirik`	`the warehouse is in CA, we're in OR`
`14:34.14`	`Shirik`	`UPS decided to take it to KY first`
`14:34.32`	`mikma`	`alestane: nudityyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy`
`14:35.15`	`Fisker`	`why are people so stupid?`
`14:35.27`	`Fisker`	`"OMG BLIZZARD PLEASE WHY DO US GET WORLD FIRSTS BEFORE US?"`
`14:36.15`	`zenzelezz`	`Shirik: you don't think that could be because they shipped it to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldport_%28UPS_air_hub%29 ?`
`14:36.34`	`alestane`	`I'm well aware, mikma. My client does thumbnails. I couldn't use that feature if I were at work for just that reason...it doesn't understand tagging.`
`14:37.41`	`mikma`	`what client is that awesome?`
`14:38.12`	`alestane`	`LimeChat. It has its issues but it's not as laggy as Colloquy.`
`14:42.45`	`Adys`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubble_Wrap`
`14:42.50`	`Adys`	`Acknowledging this alternative use, some websites provide a "virtual bubble wrap" program which displays a sheet of bubble wrap that users may "pop" by clicking on the bubbles.[2]`
`14:43.00`	`Adys`	`Shirik, wikipedia freaks me out`
`14:46.23`	`*** join/#wowuidev Mihau_ (~asmith@adsl-070-154-141-174.sip.bna.bellsouth.net)`
`14:51.03`	`Shirik`	`I guess so zenzelezz`
`14:51.07`	`Shirik`	`but it seems totally illogical`
`14:53.19`	`zenzelezz`	`by common sense it would`
`14:53.27`	`zenzelezz`	`but the delivery routes are pretty optimised`
`14:53.44`	`alestane`	`Distribution is all about using low-resistance channels.`
`14:53.46`	`zenzelezz`	`in terms of cost for them... less sorting everywhere, less manpower`
`14:54.06`	`mikma`	`http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpXA3eho43I`
`14:54.41`	`*** join/#wowuidev cyndis (cyndis@kapsi.fi)`
`14:55.32`	`mikma`	`http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bN2r3PzuGg`
`14:57.54`	`Jamash`	`mikma: it's sad because it's true`
`14:57.55`	`Fisker`	`hey Shirik`
`15:04.22`	`*** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Cide@hus110a.bobbnet.com)`
`15:04.22`	`*** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ`
`15:10.13`	`Adys`	`https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16315#c2`
`15:11.58`	`mikma`	`my hero`
`15:16.40`	`*** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree)`
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`15:44.04`	`malreth`	`mumbles over his 11 o'clock meeting being canceled`
`15:44.12`	`malreth`	`guess i can go home then... baah`
`15:46.51`	`Kraps`	`you dont like going home?`
`15:47.29`	`malreth`	`it's just that i put on my good shirt for this meeting. now i'll have to wear it again tomorrow for the reschedule.`
`15:48.26`	`*** join/#wowuidev Thrae (~ircuser@generalmx-1-pt.tunnel.tserv13.ash1.ipv6.he.net)`
`15:48.53`	`alestane`	`Random dose of cheerful for the day: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE_MifVGet4`
`15:49.22`	`alestane`	`If you find the video insipid, just listen to the music...it will make you happy.`
`15:51.05`	`*** join/#wowuidev pompy1 (~Mike@c-68-32-133-69.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)`
`15:54.21`	`*** join/#wowuidev davis (davis@pilot.trilug.org)`
`15:54.24`	`davis`	`hello`
`15:58.06`	`Kraps`	`alestane: the singer is meh`
`16:00.46`	`*** join/#wowuidev Srosh (~Srosh@d070094.adsl.hansenet.de)`
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`16:05.12`	`foxlit`	`~wowalert`
`16:05.12`	`purl`	`http://launcher.worldofwarcraft.com/alert (US); http://status.wow-europe.com/en/alert (EU) [NB: URL goes to 404 unless there's an active alert]`
`16:05.53`	`*** join/#wowuidev Shirik_ (d1d8a3bb@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik)`
`16:05.53`	`*** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik_] by ChanServ`
`16:05.59`	`Shirik_`	`cog\|sleep: http://sites.google.com/site/steveyegge2/singleton-considered-stupid`
`16:06.06`	`*** join/#wowuidev Adys_ (~Adys@unaffiliated/adys)`
`16:06.21`	`*** join/#wowuidev SinusPi (sinus@178-36-22-166.adsl.inetia.pl)`
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`16:07.41`	`*** mode/#wowuidev [+v Esamynn\|Away] by ChanServ`
`16:10.19`	`alestane`	`"Well, actually it was written in Smalltalk, but nobody seems to have minded; most people thought that was pseudocode."`
`16:13.05`	`*** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree)`
`16:16.36`	`mikma`	`eu servers are working great`
`16:16.43`	`mikma`	`can't even get to the realmlist :D`
`16:17.09`	`*** join/#wowuidev SinusPi (sinus@178-36-1-133.adsl.inetia.pl)`
`16:20.44`	`alestane`	`"You either get this, because you've done functional programming before, or you don't, in which case I sound like I'm a babbling idiot, so I guess I'll wrap it up."`
`16:21.18`	`cog\|work`	`Shirik_: OALD NOOZ`
`16:21.18`	`malreth`	`lambda's alestane`
`16:21.28`	`malreth`	`shit.. that didn't even make any sense`
`16:22.12`	`Shirik_`	`cog\|work: :(`
`16:22.55`	`mikma`	`i totally get it how i don't get it`
`16:23.00`	`alestane`	`I did arrive at one weird case: I was trying to wrap a C++ class approach around the Carbon API, and decided I needed a class that represented the Application itself. I thought the author's application should then be a subclass of Application. I wanted to see how this would be created and linked to the main function call.`
`16:23.24`	`cog\|work`	`Shirik_: http://jalf.dk/blog/2010/03/singletons-solving-problems-you-didnt-know-you-never-had-since-1995/`
`16:23.26`	`alestane`	`I decided that Application should overload the () operator.`
`16:23.41`	`malreth`	`o_i`
`16:23.47`	`malreth`	`sorry... o_o`
`16:24.47`	`cog\|work`	`a_o e_u sometimes_y`
`16:24.55`	`cog\|work`	`(who needs i?)`
`16:25.14`	`alestane`	`So if your Application was a Hello World program, you'd create class HelloWorld: public Application, and your main function would basically be`
`16:25.15`	`alestane`	`int main(int argc, char** argv) { return HelloWorld()(argc, argv); }`
`16:26.34`	`alestane`	`So it instantiates a copy of your application (and initializes it as you've deemed appropriate), invokes it on the program's arguments if any, and then deconstructs the object when it goes out of scope at the end of the statement.`
`16:26.59`	`cog\|work`	`alestane: that's nearly identical to the common way of doing it, except they usually use a .run method instead of .operator()`
`16:27.31`	`cog\|work`	`operator looks nicer imo :)`
`16:27.41`	`alestane`	`I liked the notion that an application is effectively an operation on its arguments.`
`16:29.30`	`alestane`	`The biggest issue with trying to wrap a C++ paradigm around Carbon was that in Carbon, allocating an object and initializing it are an atomic operation.`
`16:30.00`	`*** join/#wowuidev Guardix (~Martin@0x5da165ee.hinqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk)`
`16:30.37`	`*** join/#wowuidev Blia (~unknown@vno44-1-88-172-189-200.fbx.proxad.net)`
`16:30.39`	`alestane`	`So to create a new Window with a content frame rectangle, I would have to invoke "new (frame) Window()" rather than the "new Window(frame)" one would normally expect.`
`16:32.33`	`alestane`	`And attempting to construct an object without allocating it (such as, as a local variable) would wreak havoc`
`16:32.52`	`alestane`	`Or at least EXC_BAD_ACCESS interrupts.`
`16:32.54`	`A-KO`	`http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBkbj_S3etY`
`16:33.05`	`amro`	`alestane: there's no stack allocation?`
`16:33.34`	`alestane`	`Not for objects defined by the Human Interface APIs, amro.`
`16:33.43`	`alestane`	`Well, that's not entirely true.`
`16:34.53`	`alestane`	`When you allocate an object, you can give the function an allocator function that defines how the constructor will find the space it'll store the new object in.`
`16:35.18`	`alestane`	`The sort of thing you're supposed to use as a parameter to new() Class allocators.`
`16:35.42`	`alestane`	`You could, theoretically, supply an allocator that would allocate space from the stack.`
`16:35.56`	`amro`	`hang on, what language?`
`16:36.03`	`alestane`	`I don't like to imagine the challenges involved in doing that functionally, though.`
`16:36.16`	`alestane`	`Carbon is a C API usable from C and C++.`
`16:36.58`	`malreth`	`And keep in mind that the routines in Carbon trace their lineage back to the Macintosh Toolbox which was written in Pascal`
`16:37.05`	`amro`	`if it's a C API, how can you directly allocate objects with new? or does it have a C++ interface as well?`
`16:37.05`	`alestane`	`I know it well.`
`16:37.14`	`mikma`	`Breaking news, how appropriate`
`16:37.25`	`alestane`	`I was writing a C++ bridge around it, amro.`
`16:40.52`	`Shirik_`	`amro: placement new`
`16:41.00`	`malreth`	`Are they seriously feeding a fucking custard to the dog in that picture? http://www.hammacher.com/Product/78611`
`16:42.19`	`cog\|work`	`alestane: you might get better encapsulation by building a "thicker" interface between your main program logic and the GUI code. Thin wrappers still require the client to be aware of the details of the installation, so they don't really buy you much except syntactic sugar`
`16:42.37`	`*** join/#wowuidev Dewin (~Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net)`
`16:42.45`	`malreth`	`i have a better suggestion: Use Cocoa API instead.`
`16:42.48`	`malreth`	`ducks and runs`
`16:42.57`	`amro`	`Shirik_: yes, but don't C APIs usually handle allocation?`
`16:43.02`	`Cairenn\|afk`	`Adys: w.t.f. over? rofl`
`16:43.25`	`Shirik_`	`yes`
`16:43.33`	`Shirik_`	`so you do the C allocation and then use placement new to call the constructor`
`16:43.47`	`alestane`	`The APIs are mostly deprecated and approaching obsolescence, cog\|work. I abandoned the project.`
`16:43.49`	`Adys`	`Cairenn\|afk: which one's that for again?`
`16:43.58`	`Cairenn\|afk`	`the cat`
`16:43.59`	`Adys`	`oh, trololo cat`
`16:44.02`	`Cairenn\|afk`	`yeah`
`16:44.50`	`amro`	`Shirik_: that implies you're allocating a C++ object`
`16:45.01`	`malreth`	`link me this trololo cat. I DEMAND IT and I will judge it for the funny`
`16:45.46`	`alestane`	`At the time, malreth, I found the mandate to use Objective-C for authoring Cocoa-compatible programs an insurmountable obstacle.`
`16:46.25`	`malreth`	`bah... changing languages is like changing underwear.`
`16:47.05`	`amro`	`Objective-C gives me nightmares where I'm chased by angry braces`
`16:47.40`	`alestane`	`I would expect the things chasing you to be angry brackets, but yes.`
`16:47.50`	`Shirik_`	`amro: huh?`
`16:47.54`	`amro`	`yes, brackets*`
`16:47.56`	`Shirik_`	`No?`
`16:48.07`	`amro`	`C has constructors now?`
`16:48.12`	`Shirik_`	`no`
`16:48.18`	`amro`	`then you'd need a C++ object`
`16:48.23`	`Shirik_`	`But you can run placement new on any block of memory`
`16:48.31`	`malreth`	`amro: properties help get rid of some of the brackets... it's not as bad as Lisp is with parens, tho`
`16:48.40`	`amro`	`I'm not talking about the memory, I'm talking about the object being allocated`
`16:48.47`	`amro`	`and thus constructed`
`16:48.47`	`Shirik_`	`that's what malloc() is for`
`16:48.50`	`alestane`	`I'm working on my first Cocoa project now.`
`16:48.51`	`Shirik_`	`no`
`16:48.54`	`malreth`	`Obj-C... Not as bad as Lisp!`
`16:49.20`	`Shirik_`	`with a C API allocation and construction are two separate operations`
`16:49.22`	`alestane`	`It got a lot easier once I acquired a proper understanding of auto-release pools.`
`16:49.44`	`cog\|work`	`Shirik_: alestane specifically said that it's atomic`
`16:49.47`	`cog\|work`	`in Carbon`
`16:49.48`	`Shirik_`	`void* memory = malloc(sizeof(Foo));`
`16:49.50`	`Adys`	`Cairenn\|afk: I got the music in my head and i can only see that cat's face now`
`16:49.51`	`Adys`	`rofl`
`16:50.04`	`Cairenn\|afk`	`heh`
`16:50.05`	`Shirik_`	`Foo* = new(memory) Foo();`
`16:50.09`	`Shirik_`	`cog\|work: We're talking generically`
`16:50.37`	`amro`	`Shirik_: doesn't the second call invoke Foo::Foo()?`
`16:50.43`	`Shirik_`	`yes`
`16:50.49`	`Adys`	`fiddles with amro's foofoo`
`16:50.52`	`Shirik_`	`But Foo::Foo() does not allocate`
`16:51.01`	`amro`	`yeah, that's not my point`
`16:51.04`	`amro`	`my point is that Foo is C++`
`16:51.06`	`Shirik_`	`malloc() does the allocation`
`16:51.08`	`malreth`	`i suspect that as iOS devices become more powerful over time, the retain/release/autorelease stuff will all be replaced with GC`
`16:51.22`	`Adys`	`fiddles with Shirik's foofoo too`
`16:51.23`	`Shirik_`	`malloc() is a C call`
`16:51.48`	`Shirik_`	`so you now have a C++ object in C-allocated memory`
`16:52.11`	`cog\|work`	`amro: he was calling placement new on a C++ object, providing an allocated C object as the paremeter to placement new`
`16:52.37`	`amro`	`right`
`16:52.45`	`amro`	`I was assuming the second object was also exposed by the API`
`16:52.53`	`alestane`	`You can write Obj-C with GC now, malreth, but I'm working on a game shell, so I wanted a little more control over it.`
`16:53.05`	`Shirik_`	`oh`
`16:53.08`	`Shirik_`	`how the hell do you expose an object from a C API?`
`16:53.17`	`amro`	`that's what I was asking :P`
`16:53.26`	`amro`	`but it turns out I misunderstood, so nevermind`
`16:55.01`	`*** part/#wowuidev CodeRedLin (~grivell@c-68-45-212-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)`
`16:57.38`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`I want to live in this person's universe: http://notalwaysright.com/online-store-meet-offline-brain/5994`
`17:00.42`	`alestane`	`http://www.amazon.com/Diamond-Age-Illustrated-Primer-Spectra/dp/0553380966/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277917220&sr=8-1 , NightHawkTheSane.`
`17:01.12`	`amro`	`NightHawkTheSane: you want things from the internet to come out of your computer?`
`17:01.17`	`amro`	`that's risky`
`17:01.51`	`durcyn`	`mostly genitals, by the numbers.`
`17:05.01`	`*** join/#wowuidev taroven\|Grr (~taroven\|C@HW-ESR1-208-102-8-69.fuse.net)`
`17:09.37`	`Shirik_`	`amro: Ok. I thought you were asking "how do you get a C++ object to work with C allocators"`
`17:09.40`	`Shirik_`	`like Lua :)`
`17:10.09`	`Shirik_`	`the "correct" way to make a C++ object a userdata (read: not the way I do it) is to use placement new after calling lua_newuserdata()`
`17:10.12`	`Shirik_`	`or whatever it is`
`17:13.00`	`Fisker`	`Shirik`
`17:13.03`	`Fisker`	`ove me`
`17:13.06`	`Fisker`	`love*`
`17:13.59`	`nevcairiel`	`oves Fisker`
`17:14.12`	`Torhal`	`s/ove/oven/`
`17:14.32`	`*** join/#wowuidev Proditor (~Proditor@c80-217-82-147.bredband.comhem.se)`
`17:25.10`	`amro`	`Shirik_: I'm using intrusive_ptrs as udata now so it doesn't really matter`
`17:25.50`	`amro`	`it's a bit slow but it works perfectly`
`17:26.16`	`Shirik_`	`that scares me`
`17:26.25`	`Shirik_`	`any time someone starts talking about intrusive_ptr I begin to think there's a design flaw`
`17:26.54`	`Shirik_`	`of course, I think most use cases for shared_ptr are also design flaws`
`17:27.33`	`*** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (~nuohep@89.222.156.36)`
`17:27.35`	`amro`	`well, this way I don't have different bookkeeping for Lua and C++`
`17:28.08`	`Shirik_`	`thing is Lua should be able to do it on its own`
`17:28.33`	`*** join/#wowuidev tem (~tardmrr@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem)`
`17:28.33`	`*** mode/#wowuidev [+v tem] by ChanServ`
`17:28.36`	`amro`	`there are other complications`
`17:28.51`	`amro`	`most notably having to keep the pointer in the registry`
`17:29.03`	`amro`	`this way I don't have to`
`17:30.16`	`amro`	`I'm not 100% happy with it now, but at least it doesn't crash when I run it multithreaded like before`
`17:31.36`	`*** join/#wowuidev daev (~bleh@pool-72-86-116-158.aubnin.fios.verizon.net)`
`17:31.41`	`amro`	`it also cleaned up the registration code A LOT`
`17:31.44`	`amro`	`RegisterManagable<Entity, IManagable>(L, entity_m, entity_f);`
`17:31.50`	`amro`	`core::RegisterManagable<Renderable, core::Entity>(L, renderable_m, renderable_f);`
`17:31.58`	`Shirik_`	`some day I'm going to make an RAII-compliant Lua-C++ binding`
`17:31.58`	`Shirik_`	`not the crap that exists today`
`17:32.25`	`amro`	`if you need to push the udata, just call ->push`
`17:32.37`	`Thunder_Child`	`sure, with all the free time you seem to have`
`17:32.53`	`Shirik_`	`^`
`17:33.05`	`Jamash`	`the term of art is "copious spare time"`
`17:33.45`	`*** join/#wowuidev Legorol (~legorol@cpc8-sgyl28-2-0-cust43.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com)`
`17:33.45`	`*** mode/#wowuidev [+v Legorol] by ChanServ`
`17:34.02`	`amro`	`you know all it takes is a little encouragement to make shirik pull an all nighter working on it`
`17:34.09`	`Jamash`	`shirik`
`17:34.15`	`Legorol`	`g'evening y'all`
`17:34.21`	`Legorol`	`happy patch-the-EU day`
`17:34.33`	`Jamash`	`you need to write a complete GPL licensed APL interpreter/compiler`
`17:35.19`	`amro`	`both APL users already have licenses`
`17:35.23`	`amro`	`I don't see the point.`
`17:35.26`	`Jamash`	`ohohohoho ICWYDT`
`17:36.29`	`Jamash`	`I'm sick of languages without proper multidimensional arrays`
`17:37.33`	`cog\|work`	`Jamash: use C++`
`17:37.34`	`cog\|work`	`;)`
`17:37.42`	`Jamash`	`is that a joke?`
`17:37.49`	`Jamash`	`because I'm not laughing`
`17:37.52`	`cog\|work`	`yes, but only because i know you're a h8r`
`17:38.00`	`cog\|work`	`it really wouldn't be a joke otherwise`
`17:38.13`	`*** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI\|work (~KarlKFI\|w@adcom005v.adcom.uci.edu)`
`17:38.19`	`malreth`	`passes cog\|work the haterade`
`17:38.34`	`*** join/#wowuidev Fierceflame (~timo.meij@ip231-37-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl)`
`17:38.40`	`Jamash`	`C++ has no multidimensional array support that I'm aware of`
`17:38.52`	`cog\|work`	`int foo[100][100]`
`17:38.55`	`cog\|work`	`;`
`17:38.56`	`Jamash`	`el wrongo`
`17:39.16`	`Jamash`	`that's a 1d array of 1d arrays`
`17:39.17`	`Jamash`	`not a 2d array`
`17:39.21`	`cog\|work`	`el wrongo`
`17:39.23`	`malreth`	`why should the language have that built-in... isn't that what libraries are for?`
`17:39.24`	`A-KO`	`http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkkDfwOTDxs`
`17:39.35`	`amro`	`Jamash: why not add proper multidimensional array support to a language that doesn't require a special keyboard layout?`
`17:39.45`	`nevcairiel`	`C++ actually is multidimensional, not like in Java where the "second dimension" can be different in size`
`17:39.52`	`cog\|work`	`^`
`17:39.57`	`cog\|work`	`Jamash: you have it exactly backwards`
`17:40.16`	`nevcairiel`	`when you do int foo[100][100] you really have an array of 100x100 entries`
`17:40.16`	`Jamash`	`okay for an example can you take a array with dimensions (4, 7) and reshape it to (7, 4) in one convenient C++ expression?`
`17:40.36`	`cog\|work`	`sure, if you write a function to do the translation`
`17:40.45`	`Jamash`	`in APL you can do that with one function`
`17:40.48`	`Jamash`	`built-in`
`17:40.53`	`cog\|work`	`Jamash: so use a library`
`17:40.56`	`kd3`	`^`
`17:40.58`	`nevcairiel`	`wth is APL`
`17:41.01`	`malreth`	`agreed... use a library`
`17:41.07`	`Jamash`	`the best programming language nobody uses`
`17:41.33`	`cog\|work`	`the reason you can do that with one function in APL is because it's part of the standard library`
`17:41.34`	`Torhal`	`So it's better than all of the other languages that nobody uses?`
`17:41.38`	`Jamash`	`yes`
`17:41.40`	`nevcairiel`	`the code snippets on wikipedia look barely readable`
`17:41.44`	`Jamash`	`and the ones that people do use`
`17:41.55`	`amro`	`I'm sorry, but personally I don't need array operations on a daily basis`
`17:41.57`	`foxlit`	`Why is it important to have a built-in function that reshapes 2d arrays, anyway?`
`17:42.05`	`Jamash`	`yes you do`
`17:42.05`	`cog\|work`	`^`
`17:42.09`	`amro`	`I fail to see how being good at that makes it the best language`
`17:42.18`	`cog\|work`	`(^ @ foxlit)`
`17:42.23`	`amro`	`nevcairiel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9xAKttWgP4`
`17:42.55`	`malreth`	`amro: it makes it the best language in Jamash's head`
`17:43.19`	`Jamash`	`I could bound myself in a nutshell, and call myself king of infinite space, were it not I have bad dreams.`
`17:43.27`	`nevcairiel`	`I'm a java developer anyway, i try to stay away from lowly structures like arrays =P`
`17:43.37`	`Jamash`	`that's because java arrays suck`
`17:43.55`	`nevcairiel`	`We use Lists, or Maps, or Sets, all very useful!`
`17:43.58`	`amro`	`APL looks neat, but it's nothing you can't do in any functional language (or language with decent functional support) and good support libraries`
`17:44.12`	`mikma`	`--DEBUG FIXME FOR TESTING`
`17:44.12`	`mikma`	`CHAT_OPTIONS = { ONE_EDIT_AT_A_TIME = "old"`
`17:44.13`	`mikma`	`};`
`17:44.18`	`mikma`	`go blizz`
`17:44.31`	`Jamash`	`OK, name a language with a good FLOSS multidimensional array libray.`
`17:44.58`	`nevcairiel`	`i don't know any because i never needed one`
`17:45.03`	`cog\|work`	`Jamash: what are you really after? Something with multidimensional array syntax sugar or something that actually works?`
`17:45.05`	`nevcairiel`	`that doesn't mean they dont exist`
`17:45.14`	`kd3`	`octave? >.>`
`17:45.23`	`Jamash`	`cog\|work: Something that actually works.`
`17:45.23`	`Kraps`	`Boubouille and the Agora Games System Administration Team`
`17:45.26`	`Kraps`	`wut`
`17:45.28`	`cog\|work`	`the STL can do everything you described, albeit not within your apparently narrow desires`
`17:45.40`	`malreth`	`MATLAB`
`17:45.54`	`malreth`	`throws a chair against the wall`
`17:45.58`	`amro`	`failing that, you can always write your own`
`17:46.22`	`kd3`	`malreth; "developers! developers! ..."?`
`17:46.33`	`Jamash`	`cog\|work: can you do it in the STL by creating a 3D (or 4D, or 5D) array without creating array of array of array of array?`
`17:47.02`	`cog\|work`	`Jamash: that's what i mean.`
`17:47.08`	`cog\|work`	`you only care about syntactic sugar`
`17:47.14`	`Jamash`	`it's not syntactic sugar`
`17:47.18`	`Kraps`	`http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/06/30/blizzard-discuss-making-world-of-warcraft-free/`
`17:47.19`	`Jamash`	`it has semantic differences`
`17:47.23`	`Kraps`	`bahahahaha`
`17:47.36`	`amro`	`as long as it doesn't have functional differences, I don't see the problem`
`17:47.43`	`Jamash`	`it does`
`17:47.44`	`cog\|work`	`Jamash: you can give the class whatever interface you want`
`17:48.06`	`amro`	`Jamash: do you care about how it behaves or about how it is represented internally?`
`17:48.24`	`Jamash`	`Both.`
`17:48.33`	`amro`	`why do you care about the latter?`
`17:48.36`	`cog\|work`	`^`
`17:48.39`	`cog\|work`	`lern2OO`
`17:48.48`	`*** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (~Lunessa@WoWUIDev/Lunessa)`
`17:48.53`	`malreth`	`MASTER`
`17:48.54`	`Lunessa`	`station`
`17:48.57`	`Cairenn`	`station`
`17:49.01`	`cog\|work`	`I guarantee you APL's implementation is just as, if not more complicated than a corresponding C++ solution`
`17:49.01`	`amro`	`unless it affects how you use it in some way, it shouldn't bother you`
`17:49.11`	`Jamash`	`well, it does affect how I use it`
`17:49.30`	`cog\|work`	`then you're doing it wrong`
`17:49.42`	`Jamash`	`I can't take a C++ array and multiply all the values in it by a scalar or another array of the same dimension`
`17:49.57`	`amro`	`you can make a custom array class that does just that`
`17:50.00`	`cog\|work`	`<functional>`
`17:50.03`	`cog\|work`	`<algorithm>`
`17:50.05`	`cog\|work`	`go wild`
`17:50.13`	`cog\|work`	`Jamash: that's standard library not array`
`17:50.25`	`Jamash`	`in APL, it's core language`
`17:50.31`	`Lunessa`	`Anakin Skywalker and Emperor Palaptine had a gay-S&M relationship. True story.`
`17:50.34`	`amro`	`what difference does that make?`
`17:50.41`	`cog\|work`	`Jamash: again, all that means is it's syntactic sugar`
`17:50.43`	`malreth`	`Jamash: then the core language for APL is unnecessarily bloated. Next topic.`
`17:50.54`	`Jamash`	`if I write a custom array library, I can do my fancy operations with my own data only`
`17:50.57`	`cog\|work`	`it's not actually doing anything you can't do in C`
`17:51.01`	`kd3`	`ok... so it's good for arrays. I've got my ti-89 if I need to do array math`
`17:51.01`	`cog\|work`	`Jamash: WRONG`
`17:51.08`	`Jamash`	`Soon as I hit someone else's data, gotta use their operations`
`17:51.10`	`cog\|work`	`<algorithm>`
`17:51.12`	`cog\|work`	`<functional>`
`17:51.33`	`cog\|work`	`lern2template`
`17:51.44`	`Lunessa`	`^^`
`17:51.55`	`amro`	`Jamash: it's not like you can use APL on someone else's C++ data`
`17:52.00`	`cog\|work`	`^`
`17:52.10`	`Jamash`	`this is true`
`17:52.33`	`Jamash`	`well, gotta be at work in eight minutes`
`17:52.35`	`Jamash`	`ciao`
`17:52.38`	`cog\|work`	`nice duck ;)`
`17:52.50`	`Torhal`	`I swear I feel like someone just said "ATASCII is so much better than ASCII because it has animation escape sequences and you can draw pictures with it."`
`17:52.51`	`Jamash`	`quack quack`
`17:53.12`	`Fisker`	`kd3`
`17:53.19`	`kd3`	`hm?`
`17:53.23`	`Fisker`	`did you know if they ever made cross realm real id?`
`17:53.30`	`Fisker`	`err`
`17:53.32`	`Fisker`	`cross region`
`17:53.33`	`Jamash`	`yes`
`17:53.34`	`Jamash`	`no`
`17:53.48`	`kd3`	`not afaik, no.`
`17:54.10`	`nevcairiel`	`that would be the only real reason to use it`
`17:54.27`	`Fisker`	`^^`
`17:56.19`	`amro`	`blizz dropped the ball with battlenet regions`
`17:57.01`	`amro`	`at this point I'm surprised they let you connect with anyone outside your neighborhood`
`18:00.20`	`kd3`	`zomg at the loredump on the story form`
`18:03.57`	`*** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (~dashkal@S0106001217d8177c.vf.shawcable.net)`
`18:04.05`	`*** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (~dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal)`
`18:04.13`	`alestane`	`Did you enjoy your mail, Lunessa?`
`18:05.06`	`*** join/#wowuidev Surehand (~Surehand@m2f2336d0.tmodns.net)`
`18:05.06`	`Lunessa`	`alestane: I had a nice chuckle, and I concur.`
`18:06.56`	`Fisker`	`give me ravencrest kd3`
`18:07.00`	`Fisker`	`or i will rage alestane`
`18:07.04`	`Fisker`	`true amro`
`18:07.07`	`*** join/#wowuidev Pneumatus^ (~WiN@81.174.255.134)`
`18:08.44`	`*** join/#wowuidev Surehand (~Surehand@m2f2336d0.tmodns.net)`
`18:10.46`	`*** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Cide@hus110a.bobbnet.com)`
`18:10.46`	`*** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ`
`18:16.25`	`malreth`	`yowch... Roger Ebert completely pans The Last Airbender movie. Half a star.`
`18:17.43`	`Lunessa`	`M. Night's work generally doesn't do it for me. Unbreakable and Signs were his /best/ work so far, and I felt like I overpaid to see them.`
`18:18.27`	`alestane`	`Roger Ebert also insists that it's impossible for a video game to be art. I don't really give a S^%t what he says. I'm uninterested in The Last Airbender for entirely different reasons.`
`18:18.29`	`Lunessa`	`And, "The Last Airbender" series had some cool ideas in it, but I didn't like it enough to think it needed a multi-million dollar live action movie.`
`18:18.43`	`*** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub)`
`18:18.43`	`*** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ`
`18:18.52`	`alestane`	`"What a TWEEST!"`
`18:19.15`	`nicoli_s`	`yeah fuck evert for hating on video games ,but come on that movie was destined to suck`
`18:19.15`	`Lunessa`	`Also, Ebert can suck poisoned shit through a tube until he dies for all I care about what he says.`
`18:19.19`	`Cide`	`huh`
`18:19.41`	`Cide`	`okami pretty much classifies as art to me`
`18:21.05`	`malreth`	`ooookaaay. w/e`
`18:21.12`	`Cide`	`okay`
`18:21.31`	`Lunessa`	`Needs moar caffeine.`
`18:21.43`	`malreth`	`i think people take one man's opinion waaay too seriously.`
`18:21.51`	`Cide`	`nou`
`18:23.03`	`Kraps`	`go on Lunessa, tell us how you really feel`
`18:23.05`	`Kraps`	`:p`
`18:26.53`	`Lunessa`	`He's been around a long time, getting paid to publish what he thinks about art. And he's terrible.`
`18:28.14`	`alestane`	`Lunessa: http://chugworth.com/archive/?strip_id=98`
`18:28.33`	`alestane`	`(That strip is SFW, although many other issues of that strip aren't.)`
`18:29.02`	`Lunessa`	`alestane: lol`
`18:30.55`	`malreth`	`alestane: you lied.. i've been flipping through the archives trying to find boobs and have yet to find any.`
`18:31.40`	`Lunessa`	`malreth: Just wander around campus and stare at Freshmen coeds or their moms.`
`18:32.16`	`malreth`	`every year, their moms keep getting hotter and hotter`
`18:32.27`	`amro`	`it's 2010. If you're having trouble finding boobs on the internet, you're doing it wrong`
`18:32.44`	`Lunessa`	`malreth: I know, right?`
`18:33.32`	`*** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (~nuohep@89.222.156.36)`
`18:34.25`	`malreth`	`i've been working on my pickup lines for freshmen girls' moms`
`18:34.53`	`malreth`	`"Are you a single mother? You wanna be one?"`
`18:35.10`	`amro`	`work harder`
`18:35.33`	`malreth`	`amro: YOU HAVE ENCOURAGED ME TO WORK HARDER`
`18:36.51`	`Lunessa`	`malreth: How many more mistresses do you need?`
`18:37.17`	`malreth`	`moms aren't for mistresses... just one-nighters`
`18:37.39`	`malreth`	`ooookaaaay... i'm just gonna shut up now before Cairenn kills me. again.`
`18:38.02`	`alestane`	`I don't remember if there's any actual frontal in there, malreth, but there's plenty of NSFW.`
`18:38.56`	`Lunessa`	`malreth: I beg to differ, seeing as at least one of your mistresses is a mom. ... A hot mom, but a mom nonetheless. :P`
`18:39.34`	`malreth`	`she's an exception.`
`18:39.43`	`malreth`	`and she was my mistress long before she was a mom`
`18:39.53`	`Lunessa`	`True that.`
`18:43.30`	`jnwhiteh`	`Did EU patch today?`
`18:44.05`	`*** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar_atwork (~sylvanaar@tut.qvssoftware.com)`
`18:44.05`	`*** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar_atwork (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar)`
`18:46.43`	`Shirik_`	`malreth:`
`18:46.52`	`Shirik_`	`have you been gone for a while?`
`18:46.59`	`Shirik_`	`I don't remember the last time I read your insanity`
`18:47.12`	`malreth`	`you probably had me on /ignore`
`18:47.28`	`sylvanaar_atwork`	`he was on yesterday Shirik_ where were you`
`18:47.42`	`Shirik_`	`I don't ignore anyone :)`
`18:47.59`	`malreth`	`i say nothing but nice things about you, Shirik_`
`18:48.18`	`malreth`	`the other day, i said you had a huge cock of a voice... one that could silence that of a crying child`
`18:48.32`	`sylvanaar_atwork`	`im still laughting about the ruby, python, c# stuff`
`18:48.39`	`Lunessa`	`malreth: More gin, less babble.`
`18:49.34`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`Lunessa: how about more of both?`
`18:49.50`	`*** join/#wowuidev lehigreck (~lehigreck@ip-80-236-245-116.dsl.scarlet.be)`
`18:49.53`	`Lunessa`	`Usually, guzzling gin makes it hard to speak.`
`18:50.00`	`malreth`	`is proof that watching progress bars will make you insane`
`18:50.03`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`i bet malreth could do it.`
`18:50.12`	`Lunessa`	`Actually, I know he can.`
`18:50.26`	`Lunessa`	`And he now mixes a mean goddamned dry martinni.`
`18:50.26`	`malreth`	`i honestly wouldn't guzzle gin.`
`18:51.26`	`Lunessa`	`I really need to drive up to Austin soon.`
`18:51.55`	`malreth`	`i was trying to learn to mix a long island iced tea since it's the only thing susie will drink... i can't get it to taste right`
`18:52.08`	`malreth`	`i think i'm trying too hard`
`18:52.35`	`Cairenn`	`perks up at the mention of a long island iced tea`
`18:52.41`	`Lunessa`	`malreth: the trick to a long island is exact proportions.`
`18:52.55`	`Cairenn`	`the only type of tea I like!`
`18:52.56`	`malreth`	`oh... well that's reassuring`
`18:53.57`	`Lunessa`	`http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BawlBaz5Yjo`
`18:55.44`	`Cide`	`that's a lot of stuff`
`18:56.11`	`Lunessa`	`Yeah, I usually use Sour Mix because it's faster. And I garnish with lemon and cherries.`
`18:56.46`	`Cide`	`using lemon juice and sugar instead can give a fresher, more consistent flavor, Lunessa`
`18:56.51`	`Cide`	`you heard it from me`
`18:56.54`	`Lunessa`	`:P`
`18:57.09`	`malreth`	`hmm... i think it might have been because i was using a home made sour mix`
`18:57.17`	`Lunessa`	`At home you can do whatever you like. In a bar, you generally use the mix.`
`18:58.43`	`Lunessa`	`malreth: Hit up Spec's and get a bottle pre-mixed.`
`18:59.21`	`malreth`	`oh... next thing to learn is a Pisco Sour since the only place in town that ever carried pisco on a regular basis just closed`
`19:00.02`	`*** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht)`
`19:00.13`	`Lunessa`	`Um, yuk?`
`19:00.19`	`malreth`	`heh`
`19:01.12`	`malreth`	`Thomas went there so often, they had a different mix just for him that used actual egg whites in the drink`
`19:01.40`	`Lunessa`	`Man, haven't seen Thomas in a long time.`
`19:01.49`	`Lunessa`	`You guys hitting up the lake for July 4th?`
`19:02.17`	`malreth`	`yes... but i'll only be up there on the 3rd.`
`19:03.02`	`malreth`	`Thomas is stupidly busy what with running Burning Flipside and all`
`19:03.32`	`Lunessa`	`I'd come up, but I'm putting the car in the shop this weekend, so no wheels.`
`19:03.46`	`malreth`	`and he's in two bands... and he's writing another rock opera`
`19:03.50`	`malreth`	`or something`
`19:04.12`	`malreth`	`the man manages to squeeze 30 hours into every day. i don't know how he does it all.`
`19:04.20`	`Lunessa`	`Not to mention that running his own vineyard and horse ranch is taking up more time. :P`
`19:04.42`	`malreth`	`don't say that... you'll give him ideas!`
`19:05.04`	`malreth`	`my wife already misses him more than she likes me. o_o`
`19:05.33`	`*** join/#wowuidev Kaso (~Kaso@host86-146-75-82.range86-146.btcentralplus.com)`
`19:05.35`	`Lunessa`	`Hey, you married her, you get to put up with her strange crushes.`
`19:05.39`	`malreth`	`add in a pony... well, you might as well just draft the separation papers`
`19:06.34`	`Lunessa`	`You'd lose several mistresses too if he had ponies.`
`19:07.19`	`malreth`	`Thomas is a huge threat. I must eliminate him.`
`19:07.56`	`Lunessa`	`Well, if he keeps drinking that Pisco you won't have long to wait.`
`19:07.59`	`malreth`	`oh! but i can't compete with his dashing looks, his long locks of hair...`
`19:09.41`	`Lunessa`	`He's a charmer too. I'd be afraid to let him meet any of my women for fear they would no longer be my women.`
`19:12.19`	`*** join/#wowuidev Audible (~jon@212.20.222.174)`
`19:21.13`	`Lunessa`	`http://textsfromlastnight.com/Text-Replies-18108.html`
`19:25.22`	`*** join/#wowuidev Shirik (~mpdelbuon@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik)`
`19:25.22`	`*** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ`
`19:25.27`	`*** join/#wowuidev zmigliozzi (~zmigliozz@74-136-192-2.dhcp.insightbb.com)`
`19:25.31`	`mikma`	`shirik got owned`
`19:28.11`	`Shirik`	`it's really annoying`
`19:28.21`	`Shirik`	`mirc insists on sending out a request to every channel when you join it`
`19:28.29`	`Shirik`	`not sure what it's looking for`
`19:28.44`	`Shirik`	`but when you join 40 channels at once, it sends out 40 requests`
`19:28.52`	`mikma`	`disable your leetscripts`
`19:29.02`	`mikma`	`but hey`
`19:29.10`	`mikma`	`22:25 >> Signoff Shirik: #wowuidev (Excess Flood)`
`19:29.16`	`mikma`	`this is not joining`
`19:29.26`	`Shirik`	`that's me reconnecting to my BNC`
`19:29.37`	`Shirik`	`and then the BNC says "ok you're in these channels"`
`19:29.41`	`mikma`	`flooding bastard`
`19:29.44`	`Shirik`	`and then mirc says "oh shit" and floods requests`
`19:30.11`	`*** join/#wowuidev mojosdojo (~mojosdojo@p4FEFE2B7.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`19:30.12`	`Cide`	`so how can you ever reconnect?`
`19:30.19`	`mikma`	`you know, leave 20 boring channels`
`19:30.32`	`Shirik`	`Cide: Lately, I don't`
`19:30.46`	`Cide`	`should switch to xchat`
`19:30.48`	`Shirik`	`I just leave my computer on`
`19:30.54`	`Cide`	`well like right now`
`19:30.57`	`mikma`	`shirik: linix/unix/mac+screen+irssi. profit`
`19:31.02`	`Shirik`	`no`
`19:31.05`	`mikma`	`yes`
`19:31.10`	`amro`	`irssi fails`
`19:31.11`	`Shirik`	`no`
`19:31.23`	`mikma`	`no`
`19:32.10`	`mikma`	`conclusion: shirik doesn't profit and irssi doesn't suck.`
`19:32.27`	`Shirik`	`it doesm't suck`
`19:32.32`	`Shirik`	`it fails`
`19:32.51`	`Shirik`	`it sucking would imply it might be as useful as a vacuum cleaner`
`19:32.53`	`Shirik`	`which it is not`
`19:33.34`	`amro`	`while I agree with you there Shirik, it's hard when you're promoting mIRC at the same time`
`19:33.51`	`Shirik`	`I am of the opinion that there are no decent IRC clients out there`
`19:34.26`	`amro`	`you use windows, your "out there" is a dried out desert when it comes to decent softwre`
`19:34.40`	`Cide`	`http://textsfromlastnight.com/Text-Replies-18164.html`
`19:34.54`	`mikma`	`shirik: why does it suck then?`
`19:35.09`	`Lunessa`	`Cide: I liked the one about always having been loyal to vodka.`
`19:35.19`	`Cide`	`yeah, me too`
`19:35.47`	`mikma`	`i've been using irssi from the moment it was released and i've been happy about it`
`19:35.58`	`mikma`	`other options are bitchx and ircII`
`19:35.59`	`Shirik`	`Cide: I honestly don't think most of the things posted there are real`
`19:36.07`	`Cide`	`me neither`
`19:36.09`	`Cide`	`but they're still funny`
`19:36.59`	`alestane`	`Okay, I'm trying to prehook "module" in my custom Lua environment. They did not make this easy.`
`19:37.00`	`Lunessa`	`The best time to read TFLN is a Monday morning.`
`19:37.18`	`*** part/#wowuidev Warloco (~theunknow@abarelds.xs4all.nl)`
`19:37.30`	`Shirik`	`alestane: what's so hard about it? :/`
`19:37.51`	`alestane`	`Once everyone has recovered enough from Friday and Saturday to post what happened on Friday and Saturday, Lunessa?`
`19:37.52`	`Cide`	`I can say I have never received a TFLN-T`
`19:38.07`	`Cide`	`makes me sad`
`19:38.08`	`Lunessa`	`alestane: indeedy.`
`19:38.24`	`alestane`	`module wants to change its caller's environment, Shirik. It throws an error if you call it from a C function.`
`19:38.33`	`Shirik`	`ah yes`
`19:38.58`	`Lunessa`	`Cide: Me either. None of my circle of friends drinks or is loose enough morally for those sorts of things to be said. Or if they /are/ they are also smart enough not to tell anyone.`
`19:38.58`	`Shirik`	`I have an idea but it's ugly`
`19:39.21`	`alestane`	`I think I can manage it by extracting the C function that does module's work and calling it directly from C, but it's declared as static so I'm going to have to pull it out of the Lua state.`
`19:39.26`	`Shirik`	`call it from a Lua script that, after calling module, checks the environment and sets that backwards`
`19:40.54`	`Lunessa`	`Shirik: That is ugly.`
`19:41.10`	`alestane`	`I was verging on doing that too.`
`19:41.34`	`alestane`	`Especially since it would have to save and restore its own environment to be properly clean.`
`19:41.40`	`Lunessa`	`It means you need to check the state of the function every time you want to use it anywhere, 'cause you can't trust the state it will be in.`
`19:41.46`	`alestane`	`But I think I have a cleaner solution.`
`19:41.57`	`*** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI_ (~KarlKFI@166.205.137.189)`
`19:42.11`	`Lunessa`	`function/module.`
`19:42.34`	`Shirik`	`I have asolution`
`19:42.50`	`Shirik`	`but you have to disable NX-bit support`
`19:43.20`	`Shirik`	`Just write a JMP instruction on top of module()`
`19:43.22`	`Cide`	`that sounds like a hack :P`
`19:43.30`	`Shirik`	`:P`
`19:43.41`	`Cide`	`I take that as a yes`
`19:43.44`	`Shirik`	`yes`
`19:44.30`	`*** join/#wowuidev Pneumatus (~WiN@unaffiliated/pneumatus)`
`19:44.35`	`alestane`	`I have a better hack, almost got it.`
`19:45.35`	`Cide`	`whoever figures out the solution to headphone cables rolling up into a huge mess every other day will be my hero for life`
`19:45.43`	`Cide`	`and no, wireless is currently not an option`
`19:47.10`	`alestane`	`Floss your cat.`
`19:47.20`	`Gnarfoz`	`shorten the cable`
`19:47.39`	`Shirik`	`char[] ops = {0xEB, <offset>} memcpy(reinterpret_cast<void*>(&module, ops, sizeof(ops));`
`19:47.44`	`Shirik`	`imo`
`19:47.47`	`Lunessa`	`Cide: It sucks. Use a spool.`
`19:47.53`	`Gnarfoz`	`also, avoid rolling them up at all`
`19:47.55`	`Shirik`	`char[] ops = {0xEB, <offset>} memcpy(reinterpret_cast<void*>(&module), ops, sizeof(ops));`
`19:48.08`	`Cide`	`well my issue personally is that I have the habit of taking them up one way`
`19:48.12`	`Cide`	`and then take them off the other way`
`19:48.21`	`Cide`	`so every time I do that the cable rotates half a turn`
`19:48.40`	`Gnarfoz`	`so a half turn a day...`
`19:48.52`	`Cide`	`funny`
`19:49.00`	`Gnarfoz`	`I was being serious`
`19:49.10`	`Gnarfoz`	`how often do you take them off?`
`19:49.12`	`Cide`	`I take off my headphones at least 20 times a day`
`19:49.21`	`alestane`	`Shirik:http://wowuidev.pastey.net/138170 I push two C closures from that, one with require as the upvalue and one with module as the upvalue.`
`19:49.34`	`Cide`	`maybe slightly less`
`19:49.36`	`Shirik`	`Cide`
`19:49.41`	`Shirik`	`are summer nights white and warm?`
`19:49.49`	`Cide`	`huh?`
`19:50.19`	`alestane`	`Originally I was just calling the upvalue, but I have to do it as a C->C call, so I pull out the C function.`
`19:50.59`	`alestane`	`Actually, I think I can shorten it.`
`19:51.07`	`alestane`	`Don't need to pull the upvalue to the stack.`
`19:51.10`	`Shirik`	`in the land of ice and snow, cide`
`19:51.15`	`Shirik`	`are summer nights white and warm?`
`19:51.21`	`Shirik`	`or do some say that you are cold?`
`19:51.21`	`Cide`	`white as in snowy?`
`19:51.29`	`Cide`	`it seems I'm getting trolled`
`19:51.33`	`Cide`	`because I'm totally lost`
`19:51.47`	`Gnarfoz`	`in the snow?`
`19:51.55`	`Shirik`	`http://www.lyricsmania.com/the_land_of_ice_and_snow_lyrics_stratovarius.html`
`19:52.02`	`alestane`	`There, fixed: http://wowuidev.pastey.net/138170`
`19:52.07`	`Cide`	`it sounded like a song, yes`
`19:52.12`	`Cide`	`but google didn't turn anything up`
`19:52.21`	`Cide`	`anyway`
`19:52.26`	`A-KO`	`What do you call a German gynaecologist?`
`19:52.26`	`A-KO`	`Hans UpperKunt.`
`19:52.28`	`Cide`	`the summer nights are quite warm and green`
`19:52.38`	`Gnarfoz`	`I should have that on disk... consults foobar`
`19:52.59`	`Gnarfoz`	`A-KO: unlikely, german doesn't allow mid-word capital letters ;p`
`19:53.14`	`Cide`	`in related news, my phone now has the sc2 terran theme as its ringtone`
`19:53.24`	`Cide`	`or rather, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28010/WeWerentAngels.mp3 specifically`
`19:53.32`	`Cide`	`awesome? I think so`
`19:54.55`	`alestane`	`That's pretty rockin'.`
`19:55.55`	`Cide`	`I thought so too`
`19:56.10`	`Cide`	`blizzard also released sc2 sms alerts`
`19:57.53`	`Kraps`	`Cide: cool tune`
`19:58.18`	`Cide`	`yes`
`19:58.54`	`*** join/#wowuidev freebaser (~elderbroc@c-68-63-214-197.hsd1.ms.comcast.net)`
`19:59.21`	`Lunessa`	`That's a long ass ring tone.`
`20:00.40`	`Cide`	`you're a long ass`
`20:00.59`	`Gnarfoz`	`how is that a long ringtone`
`20:01.03`	`Cide`	`there's also http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28010/WingsofLiberty_02.m4a`
`20:01.10`	`A-KO`	`http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD-0pqZg < funny as shit`
`20:01.12`	`Gnarfoz`	`it's just 29s`
`20:01.12`	`Cide`	`and _o1`
`20:01.14`	`Cide`	`err _01`
`20:01.53`	`*** join/#wowuidev Proditor (~Proditor@c80-217-82-147.bredband.comhem.se)`
`20:02.10`	`alestane`	`Who was dreaming about being chased by angry brackets before?`
`20:02.29`	`amro`	`oh don't remind me`
`20:02.33`	`alestane`	`nameBuffer = [[[[path subarrayWithRange:NSMakeRange(0, [path count] - stepCount)] arrayByAddingObject:[NSString stringWithUTF8String:nameBuffer]] componentsJoinedByString: @"."] UTF8String];`
`20:03.18`	`amro`	`the syntax makes me cry`
`20:03.36`	`foxlit`	`use less nested calls`
`20:04.10`	`amro`	`unnecessary locals make me cry more`
`20:04.11`	`*** join/#wowuidev Caleb\| (~caleb@dsl4E5C04F9.pool.t-online.hu)`
`20:04.55`	`foxlit`	`Not that the compiler cares`
`20:06.49`	`alestane`	`It's done in an atuorelease pool, all the garbage objects go away a few lines later.`
`20:07.24`	`alestane`	`sp*`
`20:08.04`	`nicoli_s`	`oh god i hate the look of objective C`
`20:08.08`	`amro`	`foxlit: I do, it's unclean and confusing`
`20:08.17`	`Adys`	`anyone familiar with grub2? i want to add a windows instance to an existing setup (/dev/sda2)`
`20:08.38`	`amro`	`if you want to add windows, try asking a contractor`
`20:09.26`	`foxlit`	`amro: not necessarily. It can be perfectly readable, if perhaps too verbose`
`20:09.44`	`alestane`	`I believe I added Windows to an existing Linux install once by using the GNOME's boot loader GUI.`
`20:09.54`	`amro`	`foxlit: it can be confusing, if a variable is declared you expect it to be used more than once`
`20:10.23`	`amro`	`it also means you have to keep more names in your short term memory, or look them up`
`20:10.31`	`*** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net)`
`20:11.11`	`alestane`	`Okay, the ice cream truck is playing outside over the intro to NIN's "Closer." Serious cognitive dissonance.`
`20:11.34`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`alestane: ice cream trunks freak me out a little bit for that reason, they play all manner of strange music.`
`20:11.40`	`foxlit`	`amro: if you aren't using them again, do you really have to remember them?`
`20:11.46`	`*** join/#wowuidev Caleb\| (~caleb@dsl4E5C04F9.pool.t-online.hu)`
`20:12.16`	`Adys`	`nm... update-grub worked wonders`
`20:12.18`	`amro`	`foxlit: you do while reading that part`
`20:12.30`	`amro`	`and if you have several similar operations, you soon end up with an unmaintainable amount of locals`
`20:12.42`	`amro`	`unless you reuse them, which brings us back to possible confusion`
`20:15.34`	`Lunessa`	`alestane: thanks, now I want ice cream.`
`20:16.08`	`foxlit`	`amro: I think your argument boils down to "You can't tell whether a given variable is going to be used in the future"`
`20:16.52`	`*** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree)`
`20:20.47`	`amro`	`foxlit: it's more "You expect a variable to be reused". at least I do`
`20:21.20`	`foxlit`	`That's a bit weaker: adjust expectations, and things are fine`
`20:21.28`	`*** join/#wowuidev Bartlomehus (~Michel@wetering.xs4all.nl)`
`20:22.35`	`amro`	`or I could adjust the code, and things are even more fine`
`20:23.16`	`*** join/#wowuidev lehigreck1 (~lehigreck@ip-80-236-221-178.dsl.scarlet.be)`
`20:23.19`	`amro`	`anyway, it's much clearer to define something as a big expression rather than define it over several lines`
`20:24.05`	`foxlit`	`I don't know.`
`20:24.12`	`foxlit`	`That operation is like three things rolled into one`
`20:24.22`	`*** join/#wowuidev Shirik_ (d1d8a3bb@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik)`
`20:24.22`	`*** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik_] by ChanServ`
`20:24.53`	`foxlit`	`Were it java, I'd expect a for loop`
`20:25.41`	`alestane`	`It chops the end off a list of strings, adds another string on afterword, and chains them all together into one string by splicing them together with commas.`
`20:25.51`	`alestane`	`afterward*`
`20:26.28`	`alestane`	`It's part of implementing a search up a directory chain of sorts.`
`20:26.39`	`amro`	`that's a dot`
`20:28.16`	`*** join/#wowuidev lehigreck (~lehigreck@ip-80-236-238-61.dsl.scarlet.be)`
`20:28.38`	`batrick`	`Apparently truncate with large file sizes (8GB+) is essentially instant.`
`20:28.43`	`alestane`	`Since Lua subdivides modules as table keys, the Lua end uses leading dots. The C is responsible for translating them to the local file system.`
`20:28.52`	`batrick`	`That's sweet when you want to make an 8GB file full of NUL characters...`
`20:29.32`	`amro`	`or you could get them from /dev/null`
`20:30.25`	`amro`	`if you run out, let me know and I'll send you some`
`20:30.33`	`batrick`	`you mean /dev/zero`
`20:30.43`	`batrick`	`and I can't use that because it has to be a regular file of certain size`
`20:33.17`	`batrick`	`What is surprising/sad is that linux doesn't have a truncate utility`
`20:33.22`	`batrick`	`at least, i couldn't find one`
`20:33.30`	`batrick`	`it looks like solaris' mkfile does that though`
`20:35.26`	`batrick`	`or maybe not`
`20:35.41`	`*** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (~chatzilla@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk)`
`20:36.02`	`*** join/#wowuidev Surehand (~kvirc@99-57-32-25.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net)`
`20:41.08`	`*** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree)`
`20:41.10`	`Gnarfoz`	`batrick: what do you want to do?`
`20:41.38`	`Gnarfoz`	`or rather, why can't you use /dev/zero?`
`20:42.02`	`batrick`	`uh, i want a system utility that opens a file with O_CREAT\|O_TRUNC, calls ftruncate(fd, size), then closes the file`
`20:42.07`	`batrick`	`where size is user settable`
`20:42.38`	`batrick`	`I need a regular file because you can't get the file size of a pipe.`
`20:42.45`	`Gnarfoz`	`hm, I don't think in such low-level terms, so I don't know how that differs from using /dev/zero`
`20:42.45`	`batrick`	`or fifo`
`20:42.48`	`batrick`	`or block device`
`20:42.49`	`batrick`	`etc.`
`20:43.14`	`Lunessa`	`âWhatâs wrong?â I yelled. âWe canât stop here. This is bat country!"`
`20:44.11`	`Arrowmaster`	`i swear to god the designers of this game said 'how can we best completely fuck over our players, i know lets create a boss fight with fucking AoE everywhere, tons of attacks that knockdown and stun the player, make them have to kill 3 mobs at the same time for phase one then only give them enough time in phase 2 to do about 1/4th of the life bar then go back to phase one again!"`
`20:44.21`	`Gnarfoz`	`you want to empty an existing file? overwrite it (stays the same size) with zeroes? create a new one to a specific size, containing zeros?`
`20:44.24`	`Arrowmaster`	`i keep dying on fucking easy`
`20:44.28`	`Arrowmaster`	`EASY!`
`20:44.38`	`KarlKFI\|work`	`sounds like wow`
`20:45.11`	`malreth`	`screams, "ANTS!" and turns Arrowmaster into an aunt.`
`20:46.47`	`Arrowmaster`	`batrick: i have a truncate command on linux, every debian system has one because its part of coreutils`
`20:47.30`	`batrick`	`I don't have a truncate command on my debian install`
`20:47.48`	`batrick`	`$ which truncate --> nothing`
`20:47.48`	`Arrowmaster`	`maybe its only on testing and newer`
`20:47.49`	`Lunessa`	`fail?`
`20:48.16`	`batrick`	`Gnarfoz: the whole point is to avoid waiting for the system to write 8GB of zeroes to disk.`
`20:48.20`	`alestane`	`Why am I not surprised? http://www.imdb.com/news/ni3099888/`
`20:48.28`	`batrick`	`instant >>>>>> 50 MB/s write`
`20:48.29`	`Arrowmaster`	`batrick: http://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/html_node/truncate-invocation.html#truncate-invocation`
`20:48.48`	`batrick`	`well that's fucking wierd`
`20:49.01`	`batrick`	`my ubuntu install has it`
`20:49.09`	`batrick`	`but not my debian 5.0`
`20:49.17`	`batrick`	`in any case`
`20:49.20`	`batrick`	`i need it for a red hat machine`
`20:49.29`	`batrick`	`i ended up writing a simple c program to do it`
`20:49.36`	`batrick`	`but would have preferred not doing that`
`20:49.40`	`Lunessa`	`alestane: because Hollywood panders to the lowest tastes to ensure the biggest return.`
`20:49.57`	`alestane`	`Well, yes, that's what they do.`
`20:50.23`	`*** join/#wowuidev lehigreck1 (~lehigreck@ip-80-236-242-25.dsl.scarlet.be)`
`20:50.35`	`Arrowmaster`	`batrick: just checked and yeah coreutils 6.10-6 in lenny doesnt have it but coreutils 8.5-1 in squeeze does have it`
`20:50.49`	`batrick`	`well nice to know it'll be there in the future`
`20:51.08`	`Arrowmaster`	`batrick: but you could always just compile it from http://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/`
`20:51.14`	`batrick`	`meh`
`20:51.25`	`batrick`	`easier to just build my own for my quick and dirty benchmarks`
`20:51.28`	`Arrowmaster`	`i would guess that you would be able to tell it to only install truncate and nothing else`
`20:52.06`	`batrick`	`truncate is on freebsd`
`20:52.07`	`Arrowmaster`	`batrick: doing a simplesidbackport isnt hard either`
`20:52.16`	`batrick`	`wtf is that`
`20:52.45`	`batrick`	`i don't have root`
`20:52.46`	`Arrowmaster`	`check pms`
`20:52.49`	`batrick`	`i saw`
`20:52.50`	`Arrowmaster`	`oh`
`20:52.53`	`amro`	`using debian feels like walking through a linux museum`
`20:55.12`	`*** join/#wowuidev Warloco (~theunknow@abarelds.xs4all.nl)`
`20:58.04`	`alestane`	`http://textsfromlastnight.com/Text-Replies-18199.html`
`20:59.33`	`*** join/#wowuidev smcn (smcn@c-174-52-104-121.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)`
`20:59.34`	`KarlKFI\|work`	`it _should_ count`
`20:59.36`	`alestane`	`... I think that's the first time I've found something on NAR that I HOPED was fake: http://notalwaysright.com/there%e2%80%99s-a-sucker-infected-every-minute/5987`
`21:00.29`	`amro`	`it's a little TOO fake`
`21:00.50`	`alestane`	`Client: âThe designer will make no decisions regarding this siteâs design! Where was the designer while I raising money for this venture?!â`
`21:00.50`	`alestane`	`Me: âArt school?â`
`21:02.52`	`nicoli_s`	`lol`
`21:03.45`	`Gnarfoz`	`<batrick> Gnarfoz: the whole point is to avoid waiting for the system to write 8GB of zeroes to disk. <-- what does it do instead? - if you want the file to contain 8GB of zeroes when you read it back later on, you have to write those zeroes to disk, don't you?`
`21:04.02`	`batrick`	`it will if you flush the cache`
`21:04.14`	`batrick`	`linux must be doing some magic so it uses a minimal amount of memory`
`21:04.18`	`batrick`	`after all, the file is all 0s`
`21:05.04`	`Kraps`	`haha, in the sims, a painting that is "blurrier" (more expressionist?) is considered higher quality than one with more detail`
`21:05.32`	`Arrowmaster`	`its using extents`
`21:05.46`	`Gnarfoz`	`to do what?`
`21:06.40`	`Arrowmaster`	`er sorry ment sparse`
`21:07.10`	`Gnarfoz`	`that's for new files, though?`
`21:07.36`	`Gnarfoz`	`(noticing now that batrick didn't answer my question, really)`
`21:07.41`	`Arrowmaster`	`yes but you can convert existing ones to sparse files too`
`21:08.01`	`batrick`	`Gnarfoz: I'm not really sure how it works`
`21:08.09`	`batrick`	`as I said, linux is doing some magic`
`21:08.11`	`Arrowmaster`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparse_file`
`21:08.12`	`Gnarfoz`	`and I'm not really sure what it's supposed to do! :D`
`21:08.21`	`Gnarfoz`	`(i.e. what you want it to achieve)`
`21:08.56`	`*** join/#wowuidev AbsolutRayne (~chatzilla@174.35.209.49)`
`21:09.03`	`batrick`	`it's going to be some implementation optimization`
`21:09.12`	`batrick`	`I couldn't find anything on it when googling`
`21:09.18`	`batrick`	`but i suspected linux might do that`
`21:09.23`	`Gnarfoz`	`because in the vocabulary I know, truncating a file would mean emptying it without deleting it first, which would just mean cat /dev/zero > file, done :\|`
`21:09.33`	`batrick`	`so I tried using truncate instead of generating the files manually using dd or perl`
`21:09.51`	`batrick`	`truncation does not necessarily mean setting the file size to 0`
`21:09.56`	`batrick`	`or in any other context`
`21:09.59`	`AbsolutRayne`	`Heyo :)`
`21:10.29`	`Gnarfoz`	`I find that to be inherent in the meaning of the word, even aside from the technical meaning`
`21:10.53`	`batrick`	`Anyway`
`21:10.56`	`Gnarfoz`	`but if you are creating new, empty files to a target size and don't want to allocate them then and there, then yeah, sparse files are where it's at`
`21:11.09`	`Arrowmaster`	`thats why it seems instant to you`
`21:11.32`	`Arrowmaster`	`because creating an 8GB file of zeros will never write out 8GB of zeros to the disk`
`21:11.34`	`KarlKFI\|work`	`truncate means a lot fo different things`
`21:11.50`	`Gnarfoz`	`Arrowmaster: with dd, it surely would mean that`
`21:11.51`	`batrick`	`If I were implementing truncate I would have a magic block in the filesystem that is never reclaimed and contains NUL characters. Truncated files would use that block multiple times for each block of the file. This means that the only overhead in creating a large file created via truncate is the metadata.`
`21:11.59`	`batrick`	`I suspect Linux is doing something like that.`
`21:12.06`	`KarlKFI\|work`	`usually means dropping stuff off the end.`
`21:12.07`	`Arrowmaster`	`Gnarfoz: you can create sparse files with dd`
`21:12.12`	`KarlKFI\|work`	`or cutting short`
`21:12.14`	`Gnarfoz`	`Arrowmaster: arrrrgh.`
`21:12.49`	`Arrowmaster`	`batrick: yes you just described sparse files`
`21:12.57`	`Gnarfoz`	`that's what I thought, hehe`
`21:12.59`	`batrick`	`well I wasn't familiar with the term`
`21:13.22`	`Arrowmaster`	`i linked http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparse_file`
`21:13.28`	`Gnarfoz`	`Arrowmaster: how is dd being able to create sparse files related to it also being able to be made to create an 8GB file of zeroes that will be written to disk then and there?`
`21:13.31`	`batrick`	`cbf reading that :)`
`21:13.45`	`Gnarfoz`	`(which would be the standard behaviour, mind you)`
`21:13.48`	`AbsolutRayne`	`Ok, everyone who has a moment to look, A or B :D : http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/SinOfDreams/AorB.jpg`
`21:13.54`	`Gnarfoz`	`C.`
`21:14.07`	`Gnarfoz`	`A ;)`
`21:14.44`	`nevcairiel`	`B with a smaller offset`
`21:15.07`	`Cide`	`the shadow is in the wrong direction`
`21:15.25`	`nevcairiel`	`depends where the light is!`
`21:15.31`	`Cide`	`naturally`
`21:15.40`	`Cide`	`but that's more common for left-to-right readers I think`
`21:15.52`	`AbsolutRayne`	`nevcairiel: Beat me to it :P`
`21:16.01`	`Cide`	`so what nevcairiel said but horizontally mirrored in terms of the shadow`
`21:16.04`	`nevcairiel`	`should magically move the shadow based on where the frame is, going by a light source in the center of the screen`
`21:16.08`	`nevcairiel`	`now that would be amazing`
`21:16.09`	`nevcairiel`	`:D`
`21:16.14`	`Cide`	`that would be ugly`
`21:16.20`	`nevcairiel`	`probably`
`21:16.26`	`nevcairiel`	`but would look cool moving the frame`
`21:16.37`	`Cide`	`how often do you move a unit frame? :P`
`21:16.49`	`AbsolutRayne`	`Since the shadow is based in the Bar Texture, that might be a huge pita :P`
`21:16.51`	`nevcairiel`	`if it has dynamic shadows, suddenly more :)`
`21:17.19`	`Cide`	`lol`
`21:17.20`	`Cide`	`doubtful`
`21:17.25`	`nevcairiel`	`just reminded me of the 3d shadow task we had to do in university, is all. that was fun :)`
`21:17.30`	`Cide`	`maybe every time your friends come over and you go "hey, watch this!"`
`21:18.18`	`Lunessa`	`AbsolutRayne: I'm going with "B" because the "U" shape of the power bar on "A" just looks mushy/unclean.`
`21:18.39`	`Gnarfoz`	`nevcairiel: the animation bigwigs bars (can?) do when moving from normal to emphasised - needs a light-source dependent shadow like that. ;D`
`21:19.07`	`AbsolutRayne`	`Ok,, thanks everyone :)`
`21:19.10`	`AbsolutRayne`	`goes back to work`
`21:25.56`	`*** join/#wowuidev Tuller (~muffins@c-69-143-56-163.hsd1.va.comcast.net)`
`21:26.58`	`AbsolutRayne`	`Time to do a quick Heroic and make sure the Layouts workin`
`21:27.08`	`*** join/#wowuidev Caleb\| (~caleb@dsl4E5C04F9.pool.t-online.hu)`
`21:28.52`	`AbsolutRayne`	`http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/SinOfDreams/WoWScrnShot_063010_152724.jpg Stupid FBS on the Power Bars.`
`21:32.53`	`Lunessa`	`http://kotaku.com/5576262/farmville-world-of-warcraft-are-divorce-lawyers-latest-weapons-in-court`
`21:33.10`	`batrick`	`They keep piling on the reasons for me to hate them: http://techrights.org/2010/06/30/ieee-for-swpats-monopoly/`
`21:33.14`	`batrick`	`Shirik_: ^`
`21:33.43`	`Lunessa`	`AbsolutRayne: is that ToT below target? I think for visual consistency it should also display the off-set power bar.`
`21:33.54`	`AbsolutRayne`	`Yeah it is.`
`21:33.55`	`AbsolutRayne`	`But`
`21:33.57`	`AbsolutRayne`	`Hang on`
`21:35.06`	`AbsolutRayne`	`It does follow it, when the Focus Frame is out: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/SinOfDreams/WoWScrnShot_063010_153350.jpg`
`21:35.39`	`Thunder_Child`	`AbsolutRayne: is your UI supposed to be minimal just in looks or in addons as well?`
`21:35.47`	`AbsolutRayne`	`Both`
`21:35.54`	`amro`	`AbsolutRayne: what's on the topleft?`
`21:36.09`	`Thunder_Child`	`buff`
`21:36.09`	`Lunessa`	`Yeah, but the discontinuity in visual style makes me think the focus or ToT frames belong to something else - they look like freaking title bars.`
`21:36.13`	`Thunder_Child`	`it's the dragon i think`
`21:36.16`	`AbsolutRayne`	`Buff Frames area. Debuffs are set above my personal UF.`
`21:36.18`	`Thunder_Child`	`err..mount`
`21:36.51`	`amro`	`it looks stretched`
`21:37.24`	`*** join/#wowuidev malreth_ (~triti@wireless-128-62-145-226.public.utexas.edu)`
`21:37.54`	`*** join/#wowuidev AbsolutRayne_ (~chatzilla@174.35.209.49)`
`21:38.02`	`*** join/#wowuidev lehigreck (~lehigreck@ip-80-236-245-208.dsl.scarlet.be)`
`21:38.02`	`AbsolutRayne_`	`Yay, net coughed.`
`21:38.23`	`Thunder_Child`	`hmm...personaly i would get rid of the chat buttons and use a scrollwheel/friends window`
`21:38.40`	`Thunder_Child`	`is rather jaring`
`21:38.49`	`Thunder_Child`	`or at the very least, skin them`
`21:39.11`	`AbsolutRayne_`	`Im not using a Chat addon atm`
`21:39.16`	`AbsolutRayne_`	`I have Prat turned off`
`21:39.28`	`Thunder_Child`	`oh, you so use prat. ok then`
`21:39.53`	`AbsolutRayne_`	`Yeah`
`21:40.08`	`AbsolutRayne_`	`<3 me some Prat`
`21:40.23`	`AbsolutRayne_`	`Though Im told I should give Chatter a try one of these days`
`21:40.42`	`AbsolutRayne_`	`http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/SinOfDreams/WoWScrnShot_063010_153843.jpg Heres how it looks with eveything open atm.`
`21:41.16`	`AbsolutRayne`	`I need to flip around that Raid marker on the target frame though`
`21:41.59`	`Thunder_Child`	`they are rather similar from what i can tell`
`21:42.31`	`Lunessa`	`I assume you don't pull out lots of raid frames since you're not a healer.`
`21:42.47`	`AbsolutRayne`	`I have Grid`
`21:42.49`	`AbsolutRayne`	`But`
`21:42.52`	`AbsolutRayne`	`Its very minimal`
`21:43.09`	`AbsolutRayne`	`I only really use it when im on my Priest though`
`21:43.39`	`Lunessa`	`is not really a grid fan, and uses Shadowed Unit Frames instead.`
`21:43.49`	`Thunder_Child`	`cant stand minimal. need to have all info right here, right now`
`21:43.56`	`Lunessa`	`I must say though, that of all your designs I like this one the most.`
`21:44.11`	`AbsolutRayne`	`This one is seriously growing on me`
`21:44.29`	`Lunessa`	`Thunder_Child: I found that reducing the things I was seeing to only the most essential (for me) improved my gameplay.`
`21:45.23`	`*** join/#wowuidev Caleb\| (~caleb@dsl4E5C04F9.pool.t-online.hu)`
`21:45.29`	`Thunder_Child`	`Lunessa: i can ignore things rather well so having it there is no issue for me. i only see it when i need it, or i make sure it can be interpreted without really needing to look at it. like bars in place of numbers`
`21:45.44`	`AbsolutRayne`	`I still think theres something I can do with Sexycooldown and my main AB, but I have yet to cross that bridge. As the cliche goes.`
`21:46.45`	`AbsolutRayne`	`I also might stop using Omen in place of a Threat % Tag on my Target Frame, but thats a little more Minimalistic than im used to. :P`
`21:47.38`	`AbsolutRayne`	`Lunessa: Also, you like this one most cause theres no Pixel Font on it. :P`
`21:47.41`	`Thunder_Child`	`i wonder though, why is the unit frames better than a HUD (god i hate that name)`
`21:47.51`	`Thunder_Child`	`they seem to be in the same place`
`21:47.58`	`Lunessa`	`I don't have any recent shots of mine TC, but I'm pretty minimalist in my approach too.`
`21:48.21`	`Lunessa`	`AbsolutRayne: Pixel Fonts are the Devil's work. :P`
`21:48.32`	`AbsolutRayne`	`Satan had my soul for a long time`
`21:48.36`	`AbsolutRayne`	`Then I found this font and I was saved`
`21:48.38`	`AbsolutRayne`	`<3`
`21:49.02`	`AbsolutRayne`	`Side Note: IT NEEDS TO STOP RAINING FFS`
`21:49.32`	`Lunessa`	`It's raining a lot here and will be for some time. Hurricane season.`
`21:49.46`	`amro`	`it's raining FFS? that's new`
`21:50.04`	`AbsolutRayne`	`Lunessa: Its rained every night here for about the last 3+ weeks.`
`21:50.13`	`AbsolutRayne`	`And its just been raining all day today`
`21:50.17`	`AbsolutRayne`	`The farmers arent happy.`
`21:50.27`	`amro`	`farmers are never happy`
`21:50.37`	`AbsolutRayne`	`Too true`
`21:50.42`	`amro`	`have you ever seen a smiling farmer? they don't even smile in commercials`
`21:51.57`	`AbsolutRayne`	`Thunder_Child: Theres only one UI that I outright admit that the HUD is better for it than a UF, and thats RealUI`
`21:52.51`	`AbsolutRayne`	`http://s.wowinterface.com/preview/pvw39851.jpg`
`21:54.07`	`*** join/#wowuidev zmigliozzi (~zmigliozz@74-136-192-2.dhcp.insightbb.com)`
`21:54.15`	`Thunder_Child`	`thats nifty`
`21:54.22`	`AbsolutRayne`	`The only problem I have with HUDs otherwise, is people seem to love using a UF with it. I dont know why they do. Its really messy.`
`21:54.23`	`Cide`	`that looks way too flashy`
`21:54.40`	`Thunder_Child`	`AbsolutRayne: mine does`
`21:54.46`	`*** join/#wowuidev Caleb\| (~caleb@dsl4E5C04F9.pool.t-online.hu)`
`21:54.54`	`Thunder_Child`	`http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f284/THUNDER__CHILD/UI-Current-6-60-10.jpg`
`21:55.03`	`Thunder_Child`	`wow...thats tiny`
`21:55.09`	`AbsolutRayne`	`Yeah....thats so un-needed`
`21:55.11`	`AbsolutRayne`	`:/`
`21:55.36`	`AbsolutRayne`	`Also, Maximized Windowed Mode > all`
`21:55.54`	`Thunder_Child`	`nah`
`21:56.10`	`Thunder_Child`	`i dont need the few extra pixels`
`21:57.54`	`AbsolutRayne`	`Wow geez, the updated Prat has like no options to it. :S`
`21:58.21`	`AbsolutRayne`	`Go go Minion!`
`21:58.21`	`Thunder_Child`	`yes it does`
`21:58.36`	`Thunder_Child`	`has the same for me`
`22:00.56`	`AbsolutRayne`	`Go away Social Buttom.`
`22:01.18`	`Thunder_Child`	`i just put the edge of the chat window off the screen`
`22:01.25`	`Thunder_Child`	`gets rid of the hover thing as well`
`22:02.17`	`AbsolutRayne`	`I honestly think`
`22:02.28`	`AbsolutRayne`	`They should have attached it to the Minimap`
`22:02.34`	`AbsolutRayne`	`It wouldve just fit better up there.`
`22:02.49`	`Thunder_Child`	`i dunno, the minmap is getting rather crwoded`
`22:02.53`	`Thunder_Child`	`crowded*`
`22:05.19`	`AbsolutRayne`	`shrugs`
`22:05.22`	`AbsolutRayne`	`Ok, chat is fixed.`
`22:05.52`	`AbsolutRayne`	`Ok maybe not.`
`22:05.56`	`AbsolutRayne`	`I reloaded and its back where it was.`
`22:06.15`	`Lunessa`	`Maximized Windowed Mode is love.`
`22:06.26`	*** join/#wowuidev vince` (vince@adsl-99-58-31-245.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
`22:06.28`	`amro`	`indeed`
`22:06.33`	`amro`	`I wish more games would support it`
`22:07.19`	`*** join/#wowuidev Maldivia (~the_real@merge.beerzone.dk)`
`22:07.19`	`*** join/#wowuidev Caleb\| (~caleb@dsl4E5C046C.pool.t-online.hu)`
`22:07.30`	`AbsolutRayne`	`Yeah...every time I reload. the chat box goes right back to where it was.`
`22:07.55`	`*** join/#wowuidev Bartlomehus (~Michel@wetering.xs4all.nl)`
`22:08.00`	`*** join/#wowuidev Thunder_Child (~Thunder_C@adsl-71-130-212-235.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net)`
`22:08.00`	`*** join/#wowuidev Thunder_Child (~Thunder_C@WoWUIDev/PITA/TC)`
`22:08.10`	`Thunder_Child`	`that was random`
`22:08.12`	`*** join/#wowuidev Cairenn (~Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn)`
`22:08.12`	`*** mode/#wowuidev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ`
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`22:08.36`	`*** mode/#wowuidev [+o 92AAAMP3Y] by zelazny.freenode.net`
`22:09.04`	`Lunessa`	`And that guy was a spambot`
`22:10.21`	`AbsolutRayne`	`Neato`
`22:11.14`	`Thunder_Child`	`Shirik: fyi minion resets the install path when you change the buil`
`22:11.14`	`Thunder_Child`	`d`
`22:11.46`	`AbsolutRayne`	`Yup...it keeps resetting position. Oh well.`
`22:13.49`	`AbsolutRayne`	`Time for some Mage Levelan`
`22:14.38`	`AbsolutRayne`	`Leveling in AV is the greatest way to finish 51-60`
`22:14.48`	`Lunessa`	`Information overload - http://s.wowinterface.com/preview/pvw40760.jpg - even if it is non-hideous.`
`22:15.20`	`Thunder_Child`	`~lart`
`22:15.23`	`Thunder_Child`	`~lart Lunessa`
`22:15.23`	`purl`	`cuts Lunessa into thin stripes`
`22:15.31`	`AbsolutRayne`	`Theres something about Kittysafes UIs that I just dont like`
`22:15.52`	`AbsolutRayne`	`And I could never figure out exactly what it is`
`22:17.26`	`*** join/#wowuidev AbsolutRayne_ (~chatzilla@174.35.209.49)`
`22:17.35`	`AbsolutRayne_`	`@_@`
`22:17.36`	`AbsolutRayne_`	`Screw this weather`
`22:22.49`	`*** join/#wowuidev jacobeiting (~jacobeiti@ip-66-181-1-6.cust.i2bnetworks.com)`
`22:22.57`	`*** join/#wowuidev AbsolutRayne_ (~chatzilla@174.35.209.49)`
`22:23.13`	`*** part/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk)`
`22:23.46`	`*** join/#wowuidev Vangual (~bah@pdpc/supporter/active/vangual)`
`22:23.52`	`AbsolutRayne_`	`-_-`
`22:24.00`	`AbsolutRayne_`	`Why does this keep happening.`
`22:26.05`	`amro`	`AbsolutRayne: it happens to me all the time, and it's not even raining`
`22:26.14`	`AbsolutRayne`	`This ISP is so garbage`
`22:26.24`	`AbsolutRayne`	`I just need a job so I can move into town, and I wont have to deal with it anymore.`
`22:27.22`	`*** part/#wowuidev Bartlomehus (~Michel@wetering.xs4all.nl)`
`22:27.37`	`smcn`	`cata beta has started! woot`
`22:27.57`	`cog\|work`	`o rly?`
`22:28.00`	`nicoli_s`	`link?`
`22:28.05`	`smcn`	`http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/1839-Cataclysm-Closed-Beta-Test`
`22:28.08`	`smcn`	`press release`
`22:28.26`	`AbsolutRayne`	`MMO Champ isnt loading for me`
`22:28.28`	`AbsolutRayne`	`lol`
`22:28.32`	`AbsolutRayne`	`Must be swamped`
`22:28.34`	`smcn`	`of course not ;p`
`22:29.04`	`Hjalte`	`Make way for the spam mails. Like it wasn't bad enough already.`
`22:29.05`	`smcn`	`http://eon.businesswire.com/portal/site/eon/permalink/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20100630006927&newsLang=en`
`22:31.38`	`nicoli_s`	`aww no keys fo me`
`22:32.10`	`smcn`	`about to leave for my last day of work (outsourced), it would be grand to come home to a cata beta invite :P`
`22:33.57`	`Kraps`	`YAYAYA!`
`22:34.33`	`*** join/#wowuidev AbsolutRayne_ (~chatzilla@174.35.209.49)`
`22:34.36`	`nicoli_s`	`hopefully its staged and ill get one later, not that ill even play it but i want my status symbol!\`
`22:35.04`	`smcn`	`hey feel free to send it to me ;P after all you'll still have the email to prove you got it`
`22:38.20`	`*** join/#wowuidev Tuller (~Tuller@c-69-143-56-163.hsd1.va.comcast.net)`
`22:40.02`	`Tuller`	`so its closed beta time at the irvine land of mystery?`
`22:41.35`	`Shadowed`	`Adys fyi`
`22:41.36`	`Shadowed`	`your layout is bad`
`22:41.41`	`Shadowed`	`http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/55066/elementium-poleaxe/`
`22:41.51`	`Adys`	`site is getting a beating`
`22:41.53`	`Adys`	`whats wrong with it?`
`22:41.54`	`Shadowed`	`On Chrome 6, the 44/30/23 of the gold is inside the actual coin images`
`22:41.57`	`Gnarfoz`	`WHO'D HAVE THOUGHT?!`
`22:41.58`	`Gnarfoz`	`:D`
`22:42.02`	`Adys`	`Shadowed: yes caching issue`
`22:42.08`	`Adys`	`i just asked a cache reset on static`
`22:42.08`	`Shadowed`	`ah`
`22:42.13`	`Shadowed`	`Ah it's fixed now when I did a hard refresh`
`22:42.17`	`Shadowed`	`kk`
`22:42.25`	`Shadowed`	`thanks pal`
`22:43.04`	`Adys`	`for the record its because it was broken on some external sites using rules called .g .s or .c`
`22:43.09`	`Adys`	`i renamed it`
`22:43.20`	`Gnarfoz`	`hehe`
`22:43.21`	`Lunessa`	`Heh.... everyone is all "wharz mah beta keyz bitchez!?"`
`22:44.14`	`Adys`	`http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/?level__gt=288`
`22:44.18`	`Adys`	`items lvl > 288`
`22:44.28`	`amro`	`wharz mah bitches, I have beta keyz`
`22:44.33`	`Adys`	`http://db.mmo-champion.com/utils/talents/ new talents`
`22:45.03`	`Tuller`	`so I assume that means the nda has dropped, which makes me want to know what is going to break for me :P`
`22:45.07`	`amro`	`Adys: what about the bitches`
`22:45.28`	`smcn`	`the stamina levels are in-fucking-sane`
`22:45.48`	`Kraps`	`US forums got a new CM`
`22:45.52`	`Gnarfoz`	`Tuller: addons are disabled at the moment anyway`
`22:45.53`	`amro`	`+512 stamina`
`22:46.07`	`amro`	`that's very sane`
`22:46.09`	`amro`	`power of 2.`
`22:46.13`	`smcn`	`lol`
`22:46.15`	`Tuller`	`aww :P`
`22:48.08`	`Tuller`	`though that makes a bit of sense, especially if they're doing a lot of per class ui tweaks`
`22:48.23`	`Tuller`	`(aka, my worst enemy)`
`22:48.29`	`*** topic/#wowuidev by Cairenn -> http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ \|\| 3.3.x ToC: 30300 \|\| #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting \|\| 3.3.5 Patch Notes are up: http://cot.ag/aCj0Wy \|\| WoWI: Cataclysm Closed Beta Test Begins http://cot.ag/9v2zkv \|\| Are you going to BlizzCon (Oct 22 & 23)? http://tinyurl.com/22kjfxu \|\| When in doubt, C4`
`22:48.31`	`smcn`	`and wanting bug reports that aren't influenced by UI`
`22:48.52`	`Tuller`	`true as well`
`22:49.16`	`*** topic/#wowuidev by Cairenn -> http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ \|\| 3.3.x ToC: 30300 \|\| #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting \|\| 3.3.5 Patch Notes are up: http://cot.ag/aCj0Wy \|\| Are you going to BlizzCon (Oct 22 & 23)? http://tinyurl.com/22kjfxu \|\| Cataclysm Closed Beta Test Begins http://cot.ag/9v2zkv \|\|`
`22:49.35`	`*** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@c-98-251-190-189.hsd1.tn.comcast.net)`
`22:49.35`	`*** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ`
`22:49.39`	`smcn`	`if i anthromorphize mmo-champion.com in my head it's like justin bieber getting pummeled to death by 11 million tween girls`
`22:50.21`	`Lunessa`	`I would actually pay money to see that...`
`22:50.53`	`amro`	`better start selling tickets for a place in your head, smcn`
`22:54.55`	`Tuller`	`oh ps3, why must you update`
`22:55.40`	`amro`	`you can pay to get free stuff now!`
`22:58.03`	`Dagmar`	`Lunessa: You're too eager. You should hold out until there's some lesbians involved in it`
`22:58.15`	`Dagmar`	`Tuller: Because Sony hates your Linux`
`22:58.26`	`Lunessa`	`Dagmar: 11 million tween girls will have a significant number of lesbians.`
`22:58.54`	`Dagmar`	`Yeah I guess that's true`
`22:59.16`	`Dagmar`	`The confusion from the ones who look like Bieber would take the whole thing straight to epic levels`
`22:59.48`	`Dagmar`	`He's #7 in the top 50 of the internet's favorite women you know.`
`23:00.25`	`Lunessa`	`I find that full of lulz.`
`23:00.46`	`smcn`	`i like the new tooltip for spirit tap "you instantly gain 5% of your total mana instantly"`
`23:00.47`	`*** join/#wowuidev theorbtwo (~theorb@91.84.53.6)`
`23:01.16`	`Lunessa`	`From Bornakk: "The Tester Agreement (NDA) has been lifted. Lots of stuff has changed since the testing originally started so there are a lot of new screenshots to take to show all of the updates."`
`23:01.26`	`smcn`	`lol`
`23:01.42`	`nicoli_s`	`yay i get an account!`
`23:01.43`	`Dagmar`	`Bring on the youtubez`
`23:02.05`	`Dagmar`	`I wanna hunt for sploits`
`23:02.32`	`Dagmar`	`Channeled spells granted by an object are win for thta`
`23:04.29`	`cog\|work`	`yay`
`23:05.20`	`Dagmar`	`Crap.`
`23:05.27`	`Dagmar`	`Time to start hoarding crafting mats`
`23:06.14`	`cog\|work`	`Now i can finally tell everyone why i REALLY made McRun :P`
`23:07.56`	`Gnarfoz`	`what is McRun (and why did you make it)?`
`23:08.19`	`cog\|work`	`http://cogwheel.info/wow/McRun.html`
`23:08.31`	`cog\|work`	`I made it because addons were disabled for most of the Alpha`
`23:12.16`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`i tried to type 'apples' into my phone, it came out 'nipples'`
`23:13.01`	`Tuller`	`haha`
`23:13.14`	`Tuller`	`to cog/night`
`23:13.57`	`*** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@pool-71-169-39-150.pghkny.east.verizon.net)`
`23:14.31`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`this was very awkward when the phrase i was typing was "apples to apples" => "apples to nipples"!`
`23:14.57`	`Thunder_Child`	`interesting, amazon now owns woot`
`23:16.57`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`yeah, i saw that.`
`23:19.06`	`*** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree)`
`23:19.45`	`Kraps`	`wuts woot`
`23:20.09`	`Tuller`	`the land of cheapish, random deals`
`23:20.48`	`*** join/#wowuidev Caleb\| (~caleb@dsl4E5C0647.pool.t-online.hu)`
`23:26.05`	`Adys`	`btw kd3`
`23:26.06`	`Adys`	`http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/tip/linux-2.6-tip.git;a=commit;h=a1e80fafc9f0742a1776a0490258cb64912411b0`
`23:26.17`	`Adys`	`This fixes a regression in Wine where World Of Warcraft got broken`
`23:26.18`	`Adys`	`as it uses this for software protection checks purposes. And`
`23:26.18`	`Adys`	`probably other apps do.`
`23:26.19`	`Adys`	`Reported-and-tested-by: Alexandre Julliard <julliard@winehq.org>`
`23:28.31`	`*** join/#wowuidev AbsolutRayne (~chatzilla@174.35.209.49)`
`23:31.39`	`*** join/#wowuidev \|Jelly\| (~chatzilla@adsl-76-255-79-164.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net)`
`23:34.36`	`*** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@c-68-33-146-13.hsd1.md.comcast.net)`
`23:34.37`	`*** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@unaffiliated/a-ko)`
`23:37.30`	`A-KO`	`NDA lifted it seems`
`23:38.13`	`amro`	`that is so 30 minutes ago, A-KO`
`23:38.17`	`amro`	`try to keep up`
`23:39.09`	`alestane`	`Lovely. I need to perform some custom behavior when a particular set of objects are deallocated, but the class in question doesn't allow you to instantiate subclass members as far as I can tell.`
`23:41.39`	`Corrodias`	`obviously they're protecting you from yourself! go go access controls?`
`23:41.49`	`Corrodias`	`stopping you from doing what you want is the best thing ever`
`23:42.50`	`alestane`	`Well, fortunately I think I found another wway to accomplish the task in question.`
`23:42.57`	`*** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree)`
`23:48.00`	`amro`	`alestane: abandon mac for a saner platform?`
`23:48.09`	`Sixen`	`So`
`23:48.13`	`Sixen`	`Cata Beta started today?`
`23:48.23`	`A-KO`	`yes`
`23:48.26`	`Sixen`	`<PROTECTED>`
`23:48.26`	`alestane`	`Like .NET, amro?`
`23:48.31`	`A-KO`	`it's going to blow everyone's minds away :P`
`23:48.33`	`Sixen`	`Awesome, now we can talk about it.`
`23:48.36`	`Sixen`	`Mhmm, i've played it :P`
`23:48.49`	`amro`	`alestane: no, although I can't really make a suggestion without knowing what you're making`
`23:50.31`	`alestane`	`Well, I was building a timer mechanism. I was going to use the NSInvocation objects as indices into my Lua environment, but that required I clean them up when they were released, and you can't functionally subclass NSInvocation because new ones are created through a class method rather than through [[NSInvocation alloc] init].`
`23:50.48`	`alestane`	`But it looks like I can subclass NSTimer instead.`
`23:51.54`	`A-KO`	`Sixen: yeah`
`23:51.55`	`A-KO`	`same`
`23:52.00`	`A-KO`	`:P`
`23:52.03`	`Sixen`	`:P`
`23:52.09`	`A-KO`	`been 82 for weeks/months now :(`
`23:52.18`	`Sixen`	`Ah, I rolled a Gobby`
`23:52.19`	`A-KO`	`I'm still patching`
`23:52.23`	`Sixen`	`Me too...`
`23:52.25`	`Sixen`	`This is taking forever...`
`23:52.31`	`A-KO`	`I've got a 16 goblin, 82 druid, like 10 worgen`
`23:52.34`	`A-KO`	`wonder if female worgen are in this build`
`23:52.49`	`Sixen`	`I still think the blank icon on the forums for female worgen was awesaome`
`23:52.54`	`A-KO`	`lol`
`23:52.55`	`A-KO`	`yeah`
`23:53.23`	`amro`	`alestane: I mean more generally, the application you're working on`
`23:53.43`	`alestane`	`A cross-platform 2D game shell.`
`23:55.06`	`amro`	`alestane: won't you be tied down by using mac os APIs? or do you intend to write wrappers on each platform?`
`23:58.13`	`A-KO`	`jesus`
`23:58.15`	`A-KO`	`still patching`
`23:58.31`	`Gnarfoz`	`jesus is patching? hmm`
`23:59.35`	`*** join/#wowuidev CodeRedLin (~grivell@c-68-45-212-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)`

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