| 00:00.49 | Adys | ~ping |
| 00:00.51 | purl | ~pong |
| 00:01.03 | Adys | uhhhh |
| 00:01.12 | Thunder_Child | Wobin: not according to teh achivements |
| 00:03.28 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (~theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 00:04.41 | Jamash | that code is totally broken |
| 00:04.42 | Adys | Dagmar: you around? |
| 00:04.56 | Jamash | it could not have ever worked |
| 00:05.18 | Thunder_Child | "He was really drunk and I dared him to jump the swimming pool on his bike. Sadly he couldn't. Hey did you know a testicle can burst?" >.< |
| 00:07.19 | Jamash | ah, no, I'm wrong, it works |
| 00:07.51 | Jamash | just not in the way a naive user would want it to |
| 00:08.56 | Jamash | you see, "/dance" and other emotes do not appear in the global chat command list |
| 00:10.30 | foxlit | :/ cheaters. |
| 00:10.47 | Adys | They don't because they're localized |
| 00:11.02 | Jamash | ding ding ding |
| 00:11.12 | Jamash | someone tell me how to search inside files in windows 7 |
| 00:11.20 | Adys | ack |
| 00:11.21 | foxlit | Adys: that seems unlikely. |
| 00:11.26 | Adys | foxlit: Why? |
| 00:11.27 | foxlit | They localize /cast too, you know. |
| 00:11.29 | Jamash | unlikely but true |
| 00:11.40 | Adys | foxlit: Not the same way |
| 00:11.46 | foxlit | Could easily do SLASH_DANCE1 = "/dance" or whatever |
| 00:11.57 | Jamash | EMOTE35_CMD1 = "/dance"; |
| 00:12.01 | Adys | Emotes are handled in a completely different place |
| 00:12.17 | foxlit | Yes, yes. |
| 00:12.18 | Jamash | in GlobalStrings.lua |
| 00:12.46 | foxlit | However, localization doesn't seem to be the limiting factor |
| 00:12.47 | Adys | it's a hack, as is everything else in the game |
| 00:12.52 | Adys | yeah not by itself |
| 00:13.01 | Adys | although |
| 00:13.09 | Adys | Im pretty sure it's why it originally went in a dbc |
| 00:13.30 | Adys | wonder if i can bribe someone to get it removed in cata.. |
| 00:13.33 | Jamash | they should have made it a table, I'm sure some misguided semblance of "efficiency" drove them to it |
| 00:13.39 | Adys | God no |
| 00:13.47 | Jamash | wat |
| 00:13.57 | Adys | It's laziness |
| 00:14.00 | Jamash | ah |
| 00:14.26 | Adys | if it's required on the server side, they will usually make it into a dbc |
| 00:14.29 | Jamash | so where's the mapping from emote numbers to actions, I wonder |
| 00:14.43 | Adys | in sql :p |
| 00:15.18 | Jamash | I mean, when you type /dance where does it look for that string |
| 00:15.23 | Adys | ah |
| 00:15.24 | Adys | Emotes.dbc? |
| 00:15.25 | Adys | :p |
| 00:15.40 | Jamash | somewhere in the chat frame code I'll bet |
| 00:15.47 | Adys | oh wait thats another |
| 00:15.55 | Jamash | let's see, shall we? |
| 00:16.09 | Adys | i remember seeing it in globalstrings from the 44xx files |
| 00:16.13 | Adys | as well as all the /jokes |
| 00:16.17 | Jamash | hash_EmoteTokenList = {} |
| 00:16.20 | Adys | /silly whatever |
| 00:16.56 | Jamash | hmm, no, that's empty |
| 00:17.08 | Adys | hm |
| 00:17.21 | Adys | so anyone with experience in router setups? |
| 00:17.29 | Corrodias | only a little bit |
| 00:17.30 | Jamash | home or enterprise? |
| 00:17.42 | Adys | Jamash: I don't know, what's most fucked up? :) |
| 00:17.56 | Corrodias | Enterprise A or D? |
| 00:17.57 | Adys | home though |
| 00:18.16 | Jamash | ah, the caches only contain commands that have already been used in this session, gotcha |
| 00:18.27 | Adys | i have a line -> modem -> router -> 1-laptop setup |
| 00:18.39 | Jamash | typical, yeah |
| 00:18.51 | Jamash | is something not working? |
| 00:18.56 | Adys | modem is .1.1 and router is .0.1 |
| 00:19.02 | Adys | router is in the modem's DMZ |
| 00:19.09 | Jamash | man dwarven dances are hilarious |
| 00:19.19 | Arrowmaster | Adys: double nat? |
| 00:19.19 | Jamash | k |
| 00:19.25 | Adys | Arrowmaster: Yes |
| 00:19.32 | Jamash | I've done triple nat |
| 00:19.36 | Jamash | it's not pretty |
| 00:19.49 | Adys | from that point on I want to open at least ssh/vnc ports externally |
| 00:19.59 | Adys | (ssh being 2222 as apparently my isp doesnt like port 22) |
| 00:20.01 | Jamash | ok, so does your router have a configuration interface? |
| 00:20.07 | Adys | yah |
| 00:20.19 | Jamash | so where's the part you need help with |
| 00:20.39 | Adys | well, basically, modem -> laptop directly with laptop in DMZ, ssh works |
| 00:20.44 | Arrowmaster | ssh on 22 on a residental isp is just a bad idea anyway |
| 00:20.51 | Jamash | yeah I use a high numbered port |
| 00:21.00 | Adys | but if i add the router in between, it fucks out |
| 00:21.20 | Jamash | well, is the router configured to forward port 2222 external to 22 internal? |
| 00:21.23 | Arrowmaster | so forward the port on the router |
| 00:21.37 | Jamash | here, give me your ip address and ssh password and I'll fix it for you |
| 00:22.00 | Adys | Jamash: actually i host it all on 2222 |
| 00:22.09 | Adys | s/host/serve/ |
| 00:22.10 | Jamash | oh, that makes it simpler |
| 00:22.20 | Adys | Arrowmaster: thats the case |
| 00:22.34 | Adys | but it still times out when sshing externally |
| 00:22.49 | Jamash | do you have regular internet access with the router inline? |
| 00:23.08 | Adys | No, the modem takes care of that |
| 00:23.22 | Adys | it's a cable router |
| 00:23.27 | Jamash | I mean can you access the internet from the laptop while the router is in between the modem and laptop |
| 00:23.30 | Adys | ah |
| 00:23.31 | Adys | yeh |
| 00:24.09 | Arrowmaster | call isp, request pure modem without builtin router? |
| 00:24.14 | Jamash | nah |
| 00:24.23 | Adys | it IS a pure modem |
| 00:24.35 | Arrowmaster | if you are double nat'ed it is not |
| 00:24.37 | Jamash | is your laptop on a static internal IP? |
| 00:24.48 | Adys | Jamash, yes, 0.150 |
| 00:24.53 | Jamash | he just said he's using DMZ, DMZ = no nat |
| 00:25.10 | Adys | well nat is enabled on the modem, and Im pretty sure its enabled on the router too |
| 00:25.12 | Arrowmaster | DMZ is nat |
| 00:25.15 | Jamash | is it? |
| 00:25.21 | Arrowmaster | its just all ports forwarded it one ip |
| 00:25.26 | Jamash | ah, right |
| 00:25.28 | Jamash | I forgot |
| 00:25.44 | Jamash | can you turn the modem's internal router off? |
| 00:25.45 | Arrowmaster | unless a connection is created by another ip on the internal network |
| 00:26.09 | Jamash | some modems support a pass-through mode |
| 00:26.12 | Adys | Arrowmaster: I can disable it if it helps, but last time I did that I wasnt able to access external IPs at all anymore |
| 00:26.33 | Jamash | might be a case of MAC filtering |
| 00:26.49 | Arrowmaster | shouldnt be |
| 00:26.58 | Adys | ive not seen anything like that |
| 00:27.09 | Jamash | I don't see why not |
| 00:27.12 | Arrowmaster | but still your router is misconfigured |
| 00:27.27 | Arrowmaster | because cable networks cant do mac filtering |
| 00:27.27 | Adys | Arrowmaster, what should I change then? |
| 00:27.30 | Jamash | ok so you have modem on .1.1 and router on .0.1, and laptop on .0.150 |
| 00:27.35 | Adys | aye Jamash |
| 00:27.37 | Arrowmaster | you should fix the port forwarding on the router |
| 00:27.53 | Adys | right now the router is using DMZ to 0.150 |
| 00:27.59 | Arrowmaster | whats the other ip on the router? |
| 00:28.00 | Jamash | router or modem? |
| 00:28.05 | Arrowmaster | router has to have two ips |
| 00:28.17 | Adys | Arrowmaster: Uh,sec |
| 00:28.22 | Jamash | are you using double DMZ? |
| 00:28.26 | Adys | Yeah |
| 00:28.36 | Arrowmaster | actually i think he fucked up the DMZ on the modem |
| 00:28.39 | Jamash | could be |
| 00:28.51 | Adys | well, modem =DMZ=> laptop alone worked |
| 00:28.58 | Arrowmaster | right |
| 00:29.10 | Jamash | what OS is your laptop running? |
| 00:29.13 | Adys | ubuntu |
| 00:29.14 | Arrowmaster | what is the other IP on the router and what is the IP you set as DMZ on the modem |
| 00:29.25 | Adys | Arrowmaster: trying to find out, sec |
| 00:29.43 | Adys | modem DMZs to .0.1 |
| 00:29.51 | Arrowmaster | ok that is wrong |
| 00:29.54 | Jamash | and the router's external IP is set to...? |
| 00:29.56 | Arrowmaster | that is why it doesnt work |
| 00:30.06 | Adys | Jamash: 0.1 |
| 00:30.14 | Arrowmaster | Adys: not possible |
| 00:30.17 | Jamash | yeah you need to set the router's external IP to 1.2 and internal IP to 0.1 |
| 00:30.21 | Arrowmaster | if you had it like that you wouldnt have internet access |
| 00:30.46 | Adys | hmm |
| 00:30.47 | Arrowmaster | the routers external ip has to be on the same subnet as the modems internal ip |
| 00:30.49 | Adys | well, sec |
| 00:31.07 | Arrowmaster | the modem cant see the 0.0 subnet |
| 00:31.14 | Arrowmaster | so you cant set 0.1 as the dmz ip |
| 00:31.45 | Jamash | we have Internet IP[Modem]Modem Internal IP <-> Router External IP[Router]Router Internal IP <-> Laptop IP[Laptop] |
| 00:32.00 | Jamash | so as you see there are 5 IP addresses in use |
| 00:32.06 | Jamash | if any of them are wrong, kaboom |
| 00:32.59 | Adys | uploading a screenshot |
| 00:33.24 | Arrowmaster | this is why double nat is horrible and you should get a pure modem with zero router capability from your isp or atleast a modem router combo that can have the router completely disabled |
| 00:33.52 | Adys | Arrowmaster: i can disable nat if it helps |
| 00:33.55 | Jamash | yes |
| 00:33.58 | Arrowmaster | it will |
| 00:34.01 | Jamash | disable nat on the modem |
| 00:34.25 | Adys | Ill try that in a sec but last time I did, i couldnt access external net anymore |
| 00:34.30 | Adys | also, router config summary: http://db.mmo-champion.com/adys/config.png |
| 00:34.36 | Arrowmaster | but still some modems router combos consider dmz to be their way to 'disable the router' |
| 00:35.42 | Jamash | ---> 192.168.1.5 <---- |
| 00:35.49 | Adys | Yeah I just noticed |
| 00:35.51 | Adys | I'm blind |
| 00:36.05 | Jamash | happens to us all |
| 00:36.14 | Adys | Arrowmaster: disable nat on modem and remove DMZ as well? |
| 00:36.34 | Arrowmaster | if you disable nat then dmz by definition must disable itself |
| 00:36.39 | Adys | k |
| 00:36.42 | Arrowmaster | this is why combo modems suck |
| 00:36.44 | Adys | brb then |
| 00:36.48 | Adys | and yeah |
| 00:36.49 | Arrowmaster | they dont work properly |
| 00:36.58 | Adys | I got another modem for myself but I'm kinda taking this one with me |
| 00:37.04 | Jamash | I disabled nat on my grandparent's modem and installed a real router |
| 00:37.58 | Adys | Arrowmaster: DHCP: disabled, enabled or relay? |
| 00:38.07 | Jamash | or at least a close approximation of a real router |
| 00:38.09 | Arrowmaster | how the fuck should i know |
| 00:38.11 | Jamash | relay sounds correct |
| 00:38.13 | Arrowmaster | like i said get a new modem |
| 00:38.27 | Arrowmaster | those options shouldnt fucking exist if you can turn of the nat |
| 00:38.40 | Adys | Yeah im trying to find that one again |
| 00:38.41 | Jamash | bam level 8 |
| 00:39.21 | Adys | ~ping |
| 00:40.18 | purl | ~pong |
| 00:40.24 | Jamash | I love it when GarbageFu says "Error! Expected Item [X] but found item [X]!" |
| 00:40.30 | Jamash | yes, that is the same item |
| 00:40.32 | Jamash | good job |
| 00:42.20 | *** join/#wowuidev mojosdojo| (~mojosdojo@p4FEFE682.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:43.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys_ (~Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 00:43.49 | Adys_ | Arrowmaster: k, disabling nat on the modem cuts off my net, same for setting DHCP on relay |
| 00:43.51 | Adys_ | http://db.mmo-champion.com/adys/config2.png |
| 00:44.28 | Arrowmaster | your modem is fucked up like all combo modem routers |
| 00:44.36 | Arrowmaster | whoever designs them is a fucking retard |
| 00:44.55 | Jamash | hmmmmmm, bridge mode |
| 00:45.00 | Jamash | bridge mode |
| 00:45.03 | Jamash | yes |
| 00:45.08 | Jamash | no, not bridge mode |
| 00:45.15 | Jamash | bridge interface |
| 00:45.19 | Jamash | lemme look that up |
| 00:45.39 | Arrowmaster | why the fuck does yours have dynamic router crap in it |
| 00:45.44 | Arrowmaster | it shouldnt be doing rip1 |
| 00:45.53 | Jamash | what brand is your modem |
| 00:46.04 | Adys | cheapass isp-custom baudtec |
| 00:46.17 | Jamash | model #? |
| 00:46.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@c-98-251-190-189.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 00:46.41 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 00:47.09 | Adys | it's not on the case, but when i looked at the ones on baudtec.com.tw I think its 263R4 |
| 00:47.10 | Jamash | lawl, I just saw the new "Ding!" help info for the first time |
| 00:47.13 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: "whoever designs them is a fucking retard" ...so you saw the packet dumps from yesterday then |
| 00:47.22 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 00:47.28 | Seerah | yay, internet! (was out all day) |
| 00:47.48 | Arrowmaster | its just a universal law that the designer of modem router combos is always a fucking retard |
| 00:47.55 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: When I would try to connect, it was refusing the SYN by sending back a reset _for the wrong port_ |
| 00:48.09 | Jamash | did blizzard change learning new skills at low levels so it automatically puts them on your bar? |
| 00:48.16 | Adys | Yeah a while back |
| 00:48.23 | Seerah | some classes were like that already, but yes |
| 00:48.23 | Dagmar | Long while back |
| 00:48.25 | Jamash | huh |
| 00:48.41 | Dagmar | It's populated empty slots in your first action bar as you gain new skills for a *while* |
| 00:49.27 | Adys | http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/?tag=adsl_modem_router_bridge_mode |
| 00:49.34 | Adys | ill try that |
| 00:50.11 | Dagmar | Hell if I'd have known that was available i'd have told you to flip that on yesterday |
| 00:51.19 | Jamash | don't do that unless your router supports all the pppoe stuff your modem is doing |
| 00:51.35 | Arrowmaster | most routers do |
| 00:51.37 | Arrowmaster | i think |
| 00:51.39 | Jamash | ok |
| 00:51.47 | Arrowmaster | although i think hes using pppoa |
| 00:51.51 | Arrowmaster | which it might not |
| 00:51.55 | Jamash | I don't know what that is |
| 00:51.58 | Jamash | ATM? |
| 00:52.01 | Dagmar | Just about anything sold on a store shelf is going to have more brains than the units ISPs basically give away |
| 00:52.28 | Jamash | I think "Bridge Interface" looks promising |
| 00:53.45 | Jamash | that's your modem? |
| 00:53.46 | Wobin | Like a bridge over troubled waters? |
| 00:53.49 | Jamash | what do you need the router for? |
| 00:54.06 | Jamash | doh adys gone |
| 00:54.10 | Aqua | what are you trying to do program a cisco router? |
| 00:54.18 | Jamash | no, adys's home router |
| 00:54.56 | Thunder_Child | *sigh* i have 100 bugs jsut today |
| 00:54.59 | Thunder_Child | 1000* |
| 00:55.06 | Thunder_Child | just* |
| 00:56.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (~Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 00:56.04 | Jamash | in what? |
| 00:56.07 | Jamash | yay it's adys |
| 00:56.17 | Adys | Jamash, well now it answers to ping |
| 00:56.23 | Adys | but ssh still doesnt work |
| 00:56.23 | Jamash | that's a step forwar |
| 00:56.25 | Jamash | d |
| 00:56.33 | Dagmar | It was doing that much last night. |
| 00:56.37 | Jamash | how is it configured now? |
| 00:57.01 | Adys | Dagmar: Yes but without the router |
| 00:57.07 | Jamash | yes but without the dog |
| 00:57.19 | Dagmar | Crap |
| 00:57.27 | Adys | Jamash: modem =Bridge=> router =DMZ=> laptop |
| 00:57.33 | Jamash | hm |
| 00:57.37 | Adys | (note Im using the desktop currently for testing) |
| 00:57.43 | Adys | NAT is still enabled on the modem |
| 00:57.45 | Dagmar | I thought you said it was without hte router |
| 00:57.52 | Adys | Dagmar: last night, yes |
| 00:57.56 | Dagmar | Ah |
| 00:58.01 | Adys | now I need to configure it with |
| 00:58.06 | Dagmar | You should not need NAT on the modem |
| 00:58.11 | Jamash | he doesn't |
| 00:58.14 | Jamash | it's set to bridge mode now |
| 00:58.34 | Dagmar | Oh things can bridge and still mangle packets |
| 00:58.34 | Adys | If i disable it currently, I cant reach any external IP anymore |
| 00:59.11 | Jamash | so the external IP on the router should be your Internet IP, yah? |
| 00:59.15 | Dagmar | Adys: If the router gets a real IP, then it talked to *something* |
| 00:59.31 | Adys | Hm |
| 00:59.31 | Dagmar | ...at the very least it successfully communicated with a DHCP server |
| 00:59.32 | Adys | sec |
| 00:59.45 | Adys | IP Address :192.168.1.5 |
| 00:59.49 | Jamash | doh |
| 00:59.49 | Adys | still |
| 00:59.56 | Jamash | wait, how are you on the internets |
| 01:00.02 | Dagmar | MAGIC |
| 01:00.06 | Jamash | MAGIC! |
| 01:00.13 | Jamash | it's unpossible! |
| 01:00.16 | Adys | Jamash: it's still set to PPPoE in encapsulation |
| 01:00.24 | Adys | i enabled bridge interface but not bridge mode, sorry |
| 01:00.29 | Jamash | ah, good |
| 01:00.42 | Jamash | so, hmm |
| 01:01.42 | Jamash | the link to the manual for your router is not a link |
| 01:01.47 | Jamash | it's just text -_- |
| 01:01.56 | Adys | yeah I know |
| 01:02.23 | Adys | oh and what takes the cake, i cant access the modem inline documentation |
| 01:02.29 | Adys | it asks for a password and doesnt accept it |
| 01:02.44 | Jamash | nice |
| 01:02.46 | Arrowmaster | get a new modem |
| 01:02.48 | Dagmar | That' sbecause the ISP typically doesn't want you messing about with settings on their equipment |
| 01:03.02 | Adys | it's just the documentation |
| 01:03.08 | Adys | the rest of the modem isnt protected |
| 01:03.19 | Dagmar | Trade secrets. :) |
| 01:03.26 | Adys | Arrowmaster, I will if i cant figure anything out by this evening, but I rather not, Im leaving town in 2 days |
| 01:03.52 | Jamash | I still can't figure out how you're on the internets |
| 01:04.01 | Jamash | is the desktop connected to the modem or the router? |
| 01:04.11 | Adys | router |
| 01:04.14 | Adys | (eth) |
| 01:04.18 | Dagmar | At this point I'd be saying "fuck the router" |
| 01:04.26 | Jamash | what's the router for? |
| 01:04.33 | Adys | modem doesn't do wifi |
| 01:04.37 | Jamash | oh |
| 01:04.38 | Dagmar | Try to get just one bloody inbound connection directly to your laptop to work |
| 01:04.45 | Jamash | well then it's not the tn263r4 |
| 01:04.50 | Dagmar | Just modem <--> laptop |
| 01:04.55 | Adys | try the R0 then Jamash |
| 01:05.16 | Dagmar | Once you can do that, then you will at least know the modem isn't breaking your packets |
| 01:05.32 | Adys | Dagmar: i did that with my desktop, and yeah it worked |
| 01:05.37 | Dagmar | THEN you can worry about hte router, which should be just a matter of forcibly hard-resetting it to factory defaults and plugging i tin |
| 01:05.50 | Dagmar | Adys: okay so after you did that did you change _any_ other settings on your modem? |
| 01:06.04 | Adys | no, other than disabling dmz and enabling bridge just now |
| 01:06.10 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: earlier he had the dmz in the modem set to the routers internal ip so dmz wasnt doing anything at all, maybe it would just be better to go back to that setup and fix that issue |
| 01:06.43 | Adys | Arrowmaster: Ill try setting it to the public ip, sec |
| 01:06.48 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (smcn@c-174-52-104-121.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 01:06.50 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: If he got connections to come inbound without something messing them up, then he's farter along than he's been so far, and in a sane enough place to try sticking the router back into the scenario |
| 01:07.07 | Adys | the router IS setup right now Dagmar |
| 01:07.11 | Dagmar | let's be honest about the DMZ thing |
| 01:07.18 | Arrowmaster | has he gotten anything to work inbound with the router connected? |
| 01:07.32 | Dagmar | Unless the box has a separate port on it *just* marked DMZ, any mention of "DMZ" in it's configuration is going to be mainly bullshit |
| 01:07.32 | Adys | I dont think so |
| 01:07.35 | *** join/#wowuidev DJJeff2 (~crazyjeff@S0106001e582ff89c.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 01:08.06 | Dagmar | So if packets are known to be making it through the modem but not the router it's time to beat on the router |
| 01:08.34 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: right in SOHO routers dmz just means port forward 1-65536 |
| 01:08.40 | Dagmar | ...and unless the router is in need of a good dunking in a bucket of holy water, a factory reset and quick pass through the port forwarding (or virtual server) configuration panes should be *all* that's necessary |
| 01:09.03 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: no he had dmz on the modem setup wrong so they werent even getting to the router |
| 01:09.09 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: yeah, but to people who actually do firewalls that matter, a DMZ is a third network segment completely unexposed to any other traffic |
| 01:09.10 | Arrowmaster | router was never the issue |
| 01:09.29 | Jamash | turn DHCP client off on the router and set it to IP 196.168.1.2 |
| 01:09.48 | Arrowmaster | its external ip |
| 01:09.53 | Jamash | yes |
| 01:09.58 | Dagmar | Jamash: You sure about that? |
| 01:10.00 | Jamash | this would be in WAN settings |
| 01:10.03 | Jamash | Dagmar: Yes |
| 01:10.08 | miica | i saw dream how i make les garbage and i woke up and started code |
| 01:10.18 | miica | 4am here |
| 01:10.45 | Adys | Jamash: I disabled DHCP earlier on, couldnt access external IPs anymore either |
| 01:10.48 | Adys | oh |
| 01:10.50 | Adys | on the router |
| 01:10.52 | Adys | sorry, sec |
| 01:10.59 | Jamash | yes |
| 01:11.15 | Adys | Jamash: modem reserves .1.1-.1.5 currently, for the record |
| 01:11.23 | Jamash | ah |
| 01:11.31 | Adys | i can change that |
| 01:11.38 | Dagmar | You don't want to |
| 01:11.40 | Adys | if it matters |
| 01:11.53 | miica | and i made huge meat sandwhich with cheese and mustard |
| 01:12.03 | Dagmar | It's fine that it reserves those because I'm pretty sure it's going to be using 192.168.1.1 for it's own internal-facing interface |
| 01:12.15 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 01:12.20 | Jamash | yes, it is |
| 01:12.23 | Adys | Jamash: k so, disable dmz yes/no? |
| 01:12.27 | Adys | on the modem |
| 01:12.33 | Adys | currently it points to .1.5 |
| 01:12.39 | Jamash | oh |
| 01:12.41 | Jamash | hmm |
| 01:12.54 | Jamash | so dmz is pointing to the router then |
| 01:12.59 | Jamash | don't change that then |
| 01:13.03 | Dagmar | If you're going to do the bridge thing then whatever DMZ functionality it has shoudlnt' be on, IMHO |
| 01:13.19 | Adys | bridge interface is enabled, bridge mode disabled, atm |
| 01:13.31 | Jamash | honestly I'm not sure what "bridge interface" means |
| 01:13.54 | Dagmar | If it's bridging it's going to be blindly tossing packets from one interface to the other |
| 01:14.01 | Jamash | that's bridge *mode* |
| 01:14.08 | Jamash | bridge *interface* means ???? |
| 01:14.26 | Adys | Bridge Mode The modem can be configured to act as a bridging device between your LAN and your ISP. Bridges are devices that enable two or more networks to communicate as if they are two segments of the same physical LAN. Please set the Connection type. |
| 01:14.34 | Jamash | ok |
| 01:14.43 | Jamash | how about Bridge Interface? |
| 01:14.48 | Dagmar | I'm reasonablly sure you dont' want bridge interface |
| 01:14.52 | Adys | Uh wait |
| 01:15.00 | Adys | Ah i think i know |
| 01:15.05 | Dagmar | Generally that's reserved for aggregating multiple netblocks to one interface |
| 01:15.06 | Adys | or, maybe not |
| 01:15.09 | Jamash | could be |
| 01:15.15 | Dagmar | Bridge mode, something you generally DO want |
| 01:15.20 | Jamash | yeah |
| 01:15.22 | Jamash | I think so |
| 01:15.24 | Dagmar | The less thinking about your packets a $30 device does, the better |
| 01:15.50 | Jamash | it's what I did in a very similar circumstance |
| 01:15.53 | Dagmar | I submit as anecdotal evidence http://www.mikrotik.com/documentation/manual_2.7/Interface/Bridge.html |
| 01:16.17 | Adys | it doesnt say anything about bridge interface on the doc |
| 01:16.20 | Adys | but yeah that looks right |
| 01:16.24 | Dagmar | It's what I was doing back in 2001 with Covad's DSL line and the block of ten IPs |
| 01:16.28 | Jamash | so, new config: On the Modem, ISP set to Bridge Mode. Settings below that cease to matter. |
| 01:16.37 | Dagmar | Yes, that's right ten. Not seven, ten. Kinda ugly routing that |
| 01:16.46 | Adys | Yeah they disappear |
| 01:16.49 | Jamash | on the Router, set your PPPOE stuff, and turn DHCP client ON |
| 01:16.52 | Dagmar | That's a good sign |
| 01:17.00 | Adys | Jamash: LLC or VC-Mux? |
| 01:17.09 | Jamash | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:17.09 | Wobin | Shirik: http://riotclitshave.com/2010.05/00122kxf.jpg |
| 01:17.10 | Dagmar | If it's bridging by sane people's measure, it ain' supposed to do anything but toss packets |
| 01:17.13 | Adys | LLC it is then |
| 01:17.15 | Jamash | I don't know what those are |
| 01:17.23 | Adys | encapsulation mode |
| 01:17.24 | Jamash | LLC |
| 01:17.27 | Adys | 1483 Bridge IP LLC |
| 01:17.28 | Jamash | that's what your modem was set to |
| 01:17.31 | Adys | aye |
| 01:17.50 | Adys | ok, trying this out, need to fix the settings on the router too then... brb |
| 01:18.05 | Jamash | that's the fun thing about diagnosing router/modem problems |
| 01:18.16 | Jamash | you get kicked off the internets every time you change something |
| 01:18.31 | Jamash | I somehow got a router messed up so it doesn't respond on any IP address |
| 01:18.47 | Jamash | meaning I can't get to the web interface to reset it |
| 01:18.54 | Dagmar | Paperclip to the rescue! |
| 01:19.00 | Jamash | yeah that's the thing |
| 01:19.20 | Jamash | this router is so old that I need to connect to it via serial and re-upload the default firmware to reset it |
| 01:19.38 | Dagmar | YAY |
| 01:19.55 | Jamash | btw, free router to anyone in the columbus, indiana area who has a computer with a serial port |
| 01:20.03 | Dagmar | Hehe no thanks |
| 01:20.11 | Dagmar | I've got three DSL modems sitting in a closet already |
| 01:20.13 | Jamash | I'm far too lazy to fix it myself |
| 01:20.23 | Jamash | it's only a 4 port 10/100 too |
| 01:20.45 | Jamash | I don't even know how to talk serial under linux |
| 01:20.51 | Dagmar | At this point if I switch to DSL I can tell AT&T "Screw your install technician. He's not touching my equipment, just send me the goddamn specs and I'll do the rest" |
| 01:21.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (~Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 01:21.38 | Adys | Wee |
| 01:21.38 | Adys | connected through bridge mode |
| 01:21.38 | Jamash | sweet |
| 01:21.38 | Adys | This should be a lot easier now |
| 01:21.38 | Jamash | yes |
| 01:21.43 | Jamash | single nat is much better than double nat |
| 01:21.51 | Dagmar | double nat is the debbil |
| 01:22.01 | Jamash | what's the devil is double nat plus bridging |
| 01:22.10 | Jamash | *wifi bridging* |
| 01:22.28 | Jamash | with ethertables |
| 01:22.34 | Jamash | shudders. |
| 01:22.57 | Jamash | s/ether/eb/ |
| 01:23.02 | Dagmar | Jamash: That's what happens when you have one asshole hospital network admin who configured their network for 127.1.1.0/8 wanting to connect to the network run by another asshole hospital network admin who configured their equipment to use 127.1.1.0/8 |
| 01:23.09 | Jamash | yes |
| 01:23.23 | Dagmar | It's double-NAT or seppuku. |
| 01:23.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Natch| (~natch@c-35cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 01:23.40 | Jamash | it eventually turned out that my wifi card's linux driver was too flaky to support ebtables |
| 01:23.54 | Adys | Jamash: so I still cant connect through ssh, it still answers to ping |
| 01:24.04 | Jamash | ah |
| 01:24.06 | Dagmar | Adys: You don't really know what is answering to the pings tho |
| 01:24.10 | Jamash | captain, I'm having an idea |
| 01:24.13 | Adys | I think its the router Dagmar |
| 01:24.16 | Dagmar | Unless you're seeing those ICMPs make it all the way to your ssh host |
| 01:24.27 | Dagmar | I should hope it's the router |
| 01:24.33 | Jamash | is your ssh configured to accept connections from outside your lan segment |
| 01:24.41 | Jamash | *sshd |
| 01:24.57 | Adys | Yeah positive |
| 01:25.02 | Dagmar | If it's on it's *going* to answer the call, so to speak |
| 01:25.10 | Dagmar | It may hang right back up, but it won't ignore it |
| 01:25.17 | Adys | Dagmar: what i meant was, it's not the modem |
| 01:25.24 | Dagmar | Adys: We hope |
| 01:25.25 | Adys | nor the desktop |
| 01:25.38 | Dagmar | So go stick in a simple port forward directive now |
| 01:25.49 | Jamash | ya, turn off dmz and forward 2222 |
| 01:26.05 | Adys | oh yeah dmz is still on i think |
| 01:26.34 | Adys | Uh |
| 01:26.41 | Adys | ~ping |
| 01:27.02 | purl | ~pong |
| 01:27.02 | Dagmar | * Connection reset by shifty modem |
| 01:27.04 | Adys | No |
| 01:27.08 | Adys | (is purl lagging?) |
| 01:27.08 | Jamash | ATH0++++ |
| 01:27.30 | Dagmar | Nope. |
| 01:27.39 | Adys | Um |
| 01:27.45 | Adys | I cant connect to my modem anymore |
| 01:27.48 | Dagmar | GRanted, it doesn't exactly send back reasonable responses to CTCP ping but it doesn't appear to be lagged |
| 01:27.51 | Jamash | oh I'm sorry it's +++ATH0 |
| 01:27.52 | Dagmar | Adys: Don't worry aobut that |
| 01:28.05 | Adys | Oh yeah |
| 01:28.19 | Dagmar | Adys: ...at least don't worry about that now. It's on a different netblock and you'll probably have to slap in a special route for it later |
| 01:28.44 | Adys | what now then? |
| 01:28.45 | Adys | ~ping |
| 01:28.46 | purl | ~pong |
| 01:28.58 | Adys | thats better |
| 01:29.04 | Dagmar | If you have the port forwarding directive in, try it |
| 01:29.12 | Dagmar | Do yer connection thing from outside your network |
| 01:29.15 | Adys | dmz was on, one sec |
| 01:32.17 | Dagmar | I think it's time his router was mangled by a dropbear. |
| 01:32.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (~Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 01:32.34 | Adys | jleclanche@85.72.212.43's password: |
| 01:32.36 | Adys | Success |
| 01:32.38 | Adys | \o/ |
| 01:32.43 | Dagmar | THANK GOD |
| 01:32.58 | Adys | Dagmar, Jamash, thank you so much both of you |
| 01:33.03 | Jamash | woot |
| 01:33.06 | Dagmar | Not that I'm criticizing you or anything, but at some point in the near future we gotta teach you about IP routing. |
| 01:33.19 | Dagmar | Setting that up shouldn't have taken more than a half hour _at most_ |
| 01:33.27 | Jamash | also now I know your username and ip address |
| 01:33.38 | Adys | Yeha i rarely mess with router settings |
| 01:33.45 | Jamash | ...and so does anyone who reads this chat log |
| 01:33.46 | Adys | Jamash: you don't know my username actually |
| 01:33.58 | Jamash | oh good |
| 01:34.00 | Dagmar | Jamash: He's one of those lucky guys who can just reboot his modem and it gives him a different address every time |
| 01:34.13 | Dagmar | ...welll, at least until he hits the threshold his ISP set. ;) |
| 01:34.16 | Adys | why do you say lucky? |
| 01:34.45 | Adys | static IP costs like $100 per month here |
| 01:34.46 | Dagmar | Adys: Lets just say that sometimes you want to um... leave an IP behind and never think about it again |
| 01:35.04 | Adys | i know the use cases |
| 01:35.05 | Adys | but |
| 01:35.08 | Jamash | like you got ipbanned from let's say the entire internet |
| 01:35.20 | Dagmar | Static IP good when you want to run a service. Static IP bad when you want to engage in more interesting things |
| 01:35.21 | Adys | it costs money to get rid of that, is what i meant |
| 01:35.46 | Jamash | this is why they invented proxies of course |
| 01:35.50 | Dagmar | Jamash: Or some kiddie has launched a DDoS on you from his romanian drug smuggling connections |
| 01:35.58 | Jamash | sure |
| 01:36.17 | kd3 | mmm... romanian drug smugglers |
| 01:36.29 | Dagmar | Yeah I know. Like Romanians can afford drugs |
| 01:38.34 | Jamash | man I've been testing the wrong version of my addon for the past hour |
| 01:38.46 | Jamash | I blame Adys |
| 01:41.26 | *** join/#wowuidev boshi23_ (~boshi23@c-68-81-3-76.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 02:05.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (~xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 02:11.35 | Thunder_Child | *sigh* i just created 470 tabs because something was lying on the f1 key >.< |
| 02:13.35 | kd3 | oops |
| 02:14.05 | Trela | A cat? :P |
| 02:14.58 | A-KO | Dr. Who is win--agree or disagree |
| 02:16.00 | Wobin | A-KO: There is no need for a poll |
| 02:16.09 | Wobin | why are you questioning it's state? |
| 02:16.26 | Wobin | it is automatically -implied- as a win |
| 02:16.33 | A-KO | lol |
| 02:17.03 | A-KO | I must admit, this doctor isn't bad |
| 02:17.22 | Wobin | He's starting to grow on me |
| 02:17.22 | A-KO | the last doctor was really good, was gonna be hard to top him--I don't think he's topped him, but he's definitely did good. |
| 02:17.24 | A-KO | yeah |
| 02:17.36 | A-KO | not gonna top the last doctor though :P |
| 02:17.43 | Wobin | I don't think he has to |
| 02:17.58 | Wobin | He's the -Doctor- |
| 02:18.40 | A-KO | lol |
| 02:20.06 | A-KO | this most recent ep was pretty good, too |
| 02:20.23 | Wobin | I like Doctor Who |
| 02:20.29 | Wobin | but I can't watch it consistantly |
| 02:20.43 | Wobin | I think the Doctor's neurosies rub off on me too much |
| 02:20.47 | A-KO | haha |
| 02:20.56 | A-KO | it's quite the character persona |
| 02:21.11 | A-KO | I'm surprised it's not a popular show here in the US with the ladies |
| 02:21.18 | A-KO | he's got everything almost every girl in the US dreams about |
| 02:21.23 | A-KO | including the british accent |
| 02:21.25 | A-KO | :P |
| 02:21.31 | Wobin | A British Accent |
| 02:21.35 | A-KO | lol |
| 02:21.36 | Wobin | "Hair You Want To Fix" |
| 02:21.51 | Wobin | "A Time Machine" |
| 02:22.04 | A-KO | "super cocky and confident, yet not arrogant" |
| 02:22.05 | A-KO | etc etc. |
| 02:22.19 | A-KO | funny shows though :P |
| 02:22.25 | Wobin | I think a lot of the women I know who watch Who, like him cause they want to mother him, to some degree =P |
| 02:22.34 | A-KO | haha |
| 02:22.42 | A-KO | I don't know any women that watch the show |
| 02:22.46 | Wobin | There's just so much to 'fix'! |
| 02:22.48 | A-KO | but I'm highly surprised I don't |
| 02:23.22 | Wobin | You need geekier female friends |
| 02:23.28 | A-KO | I thought I had some |
| 02:23.45 | A-KO | one of which went and drove hours out of the way to stalk the "it's always sunny" cast |
| 02:23.49 | Wobin | There has to be some element of enjoying scifi as a stepping stone to get into Dr Who |
| 02:23.53 | A-KO | I suppose |
| 02:24.02 | A-KO | maybe that's the barrier |
| 02:24.19 | Wobin | otherwise it's like the ultimate male in a mid life crisis show |
| 02:24.30 | Wobin | The fast 'car' |
| 02:24.33 | Wobin | the hot 'chick' |
| 02:24.39 | Wobin | 'saving the world' |
| 02:25.02 | Wobin | but in a slightly geekier, more nonviolent way |
| 02:25.08 | A-KO | haha |
| 02:25.11 | Wobin | (kinda like MacGuyver) |
| 02:25.26 | A-KO | Doctor Who could kick Macguyver's ass :P |
| 02:25.35 | Wobin | and now I have the MacGuyver theme stuck in my head |
| 02:25.49 | A-KO | yeah, I just thought of Stargate SG1 with Richard Dean Anderson in it...lol |
| 02:26.01 | kd3 | speaking of songs stuck in head... someone came by work yesterday wearing a portal t-shirt |
| 02:26.03 | A-KO | makes me think I'm partial to shows with lots of space/time travels |
| 02:26.16 | A-KO | kd3: hahaha, I downloaded that song on itunes yesterday and played it while driving in the car |
| 02:26.19 | Wobin | Well, that's cause the Doctor, despite his general demeanour, can be heartlessly ruthless if required |
| 02:26.23 | kd3 | had 'still alive' stuck in my head for the next six hours |
| 02:26.40 | A-KO | "This was a triumph.....I'm making a note here..huge success.." |
| 02:26.40 | Wobin | Wormhole EXTREME |
| 02:27.09 | Wobin | I really like the trailer for Portal 2 |
| 02:27.16 | Wobin | ".... You -Monster-" |
| 02:27.42 | A-KO | Wobin: I don't think the Doctor is all that ruthless--except to his diehard enemeies, but so many times it almost seems like he's doing some really screwed up, but then it turns out he had a meaning, and probably knew it wasn't all that bad all along, while the audience is led to believe otherwise. |
| 02:27.50 | A-KO | definitely can't wait for that game to come out |
| 02:28.02 | Wobin | A-KO: that's 80% of the show |
| 02:28.21 | Wobin | wait, no 90% |
| 02:28.57 | Wobin | every episode is 'saved by the seat of the pants, through a mechanism that wasn't completely outlined throughout the episode' |
| 02:29.14 | Wobin | aka "Hey Rocky, Watch me pull a rabbit out of a hat!" |
| 02:29.16 | A-KO | yeah |
| 02:36.01 | Adys | Alright |
| 02:36.07 | Adys | I'm issuing a math challenge to anyone who wants it |
| 02:36.12 | Wobin | 5 |
| 02:37.01 | *** join/#wowuidev DJJeff (~crazyjeff@S0106001e582ff89c.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 02:37.18 | Adys | (137, 206, 86, 102), (5259, 7889, 3506, 3506), (16, 24, 16, 0), 7665.75, 1.11418402195 |
| 02:37.21 | Adys | Reach 1367 |
| 02:38.16 | Adys | you can discard groups (especially the first one), and these numbers can be anything (percentages, ...) |
| 02:38.17 | Wobin | ...reach? |
| 02:38.23 | A-KO | wow |
| 02:38.28 | A-KO | so I just was reading wikipedia |
| 02:38.36 | kd3 | ya, don't do that |
| 02:38.41 | Wobin | no no |
| 02:38.43 | A-KO | David Tennant's next major role is playing "Peter Vincent" in the remake of Fright Night next year.... |
| 02:38.48 | Wobin | it's "Don't read tvtropes" |
| 02:38.51 | A-KO | that's....lol |
| 02:39.16 | Wobin | Adys: I'm not sure what that even means =P |
| 02:39.22 | Adys | Wobin: find a formula using most of those numbers that will equal 1367 |
| 02:39.31 | Wobin | 'most'? |
| 02:39.50 | Wobin | can you offer an example? |
| 02:39.55 | Adys | Nop |
| 02:40.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan| (~pancake@cpe-174-098-002-214.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 02:40.47 | Adys | What I can say is, you have a total of 7665.75 and a factor of 1.11418402195 |
| 02:40.48 | Wobin | so something like... function Reach(...) return 1367 end |
| 02:41.05 | Wobin | cause I have no idea what you mean by 'total' and 'factor' |
| 02:41.07 | Adys | the rest of the numbers, find out what they're for :p |
| 02:41.23 | Wobin | I've never seen a series of numbers like that =P |
| 02:41.53 | Adys | neither have i, as i said have fun |
| 02:42.06 | Wobin | This is like playing Monopoly when you only have the rules on a coffeestained printout of the rules to Risk |
| 02:43.01 | Adys | Wobin, man if I had more specifics I'd give you them |
| 02:43.13 | Wobin | Adys: an original source, perhaps? |
| 02:43.26 | Adys | nop |
| 02:43.46 | Wobin | It sprung, full formed from your forehead? |
| 02:43.59 | Adys | In blizzard's forehead |
| 02:44.11 | Wobin | where? |
| 02:44.16 | kd3 | yay reverse engineering |
| 02:44.48 | Wobin | also, plz define 'factor' |
| 02:44.50 | Adys | kd3: when reverse engineering by design doesn't work, try by maths =] |
| 02:45.11 | Adys | Wobin: "somewhere int here you use it to multiply a result" |
| 02:45.16 | Adys | in there/ |
| 02:45.39 | Wobin | why are you confident you can discard the first set? |
| 02:45.55 | Adys | because I think it's generated by a combination of the two others |
| 02:48.10 | Adys | kd3: Oh well, when maths fail as well, it's time to brute force |
| 02:48.20 | Wobin | tried matrix maths? |
| 02:48.24 | kd3 | hands adys a bigger hammer |
| 02:50.03 | Adys | 3474321 |
| 02:50.03 | Adys | hmm |
| 02:56.21 | Cide- | Adys, you haven't solved it yet? |
| 02:56.28 | Adys | Nop |
| 02:56.38 | Cide- | make an algorithm to try all the combinations |
| 02:56.49 | Adys | go ahead and try your luck, I'm solving it using other methods |
| 02:56.59 | Cide- | I don't get what the groups are for |
| 02:57.13 | Adys | Im not sure they're used at all :) |
| 02:57.18 | Adys | thats what Im testing right now |
| 02:58.30 | *** join/#wowuidev taroven|Grr (~taroven|C@HW-ESR1-208-102-8-69.fuse.net) |
| 02:58.31 | Cide- | too lazy to try it |
| 03:00.58 | Adys | Ok |
| 03:01.01 | Adys | they're indeed not used |
| 03:02.40 | Adys | haha |
| 03:02.44 | Adys | of course |
| 03:04.48 | Cide- | so you only have the two numbers 7765.75 and 1.11418402195 |
| 03:05.09 | Cide- | you'd have to bend the stuff quite a bit in order to get to 1367 with that |
| 03:05.56 | Adys | I'm trying to find the last one |
| 03:06.10 | Adys | lua> 7765.75 * 1.1 * 0.12 |
| 03:06.10 | lua_bot | Adys: 1025.079 |
| 03:06.50 | Adys | lua> 7765.75 * 1.1 * 0.14 |
| 03:06.50 | lua_bot | Adys: 1195.9255 |
| 03:07.55 | Cide- | lua> 1367/(1.11418402195*7765.75) |
| 03:07.55 | lua_bot | Cide-: 0.15798948487907 |
| 03:08.05 | Cide- | ^ |
| 03:08.12 | Adys | yeah but i dont have that :) |
| 03:08.19 | Cide- | huh? |
| 03:08.35 | Adys | ohhh I have a .16 |
| 03:08.54 | Adys | Cide-: im getting those values off a file |
| 03:09.03 | Adys | lua> 1.11418402195 * 7765.75 * 0.16 |
| 03:09.03 | lua_bot | Adys: 1384.3959309533 |
| 03:09.04 | Cide- | so you didn't even give us all the values |
| 03:09.05 | Cide- | silly nub |
| 03:09.23 | Adys | this is a completely different file, and that's still not it |
| 03:09.41 | Adys | lua> 1.11418402195 * 7765.75 * 0.15 |
| 03:09.41 | lua_bot | Adys: 1297.8711852687 |
| 03:13.49 | Adys | lua> 6030.160 * 0.09 |
| 03:13.49 | lua_bot | Adys: 542.7144 |
| 03:18.45 | Dagmar | Adys: Just tell us what the numbers represent and we'll tell you where your gear calculations are off |
| 03:19.03 | Adys | i told you the numbers |
| 03:19.06 | Adys | I dont work with results :p |
| 03:21.07 | ZorbaTHut | I love it when my disenchant script grabs me a twink purple |
| 03:21.16 | ZorbaTHut | Bought for: 15g. Disenchant value: 32g. AH value: 200g. |
| 03:27.01 | mikma | http://www.koreus.com/video/guillaume-nery-trou-bleu-dean.html |
| 03:28.36 | Dagmar | mikma: Sorry, it's not base jumping if you're underwater. |
| 03:28.41 | Dagmar | Hell, it's barely even dangerous |
| 03:28.55 | Dagmar | ...unless, of course, you're anywhere near a BP rig. |
| 03:29.13 | Wobin | he is freediving |
| 03:29.17 | Wobin | so there's that danger |
| 03:29.58 | Dagmar | Needs more sharks. |
| 03:30.21 | Wobin | pft, sharks don't basejump |
| 03:30.23 | Wobin | don't be silly |
| 03:32.47 | Thunder_Child | and you know this how? |
| 03:33.39 | Wobin | Have you -seen- a shark basejump? |
| 03:33.50 | Wobin | Show me one, and I'll accept the correction |
| 03:35.03 | Thunder_Child | Wobin: there are lots of things you have seen only in pictures yet still bellieve |
| 03:35.27 | Wobin | So you've seen a picture of a shark, basejumping? |
| 03:36.49 | Thunder_Child | pictures can be faked |
| 03:37.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (~dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 03:38.36 | *** join/#wowuidev SeanK (~SeanK@pool-98-117-120-73.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 03:38.42 | mikma | haste: http://pics.kuvaton.com/bshit/smalltalk_by_humon.jpg |
| 03:42.02 | miica | http://github.com/miica/AngryDKP4/blob/master/Officer.lua is is ready to curse? :P |
| 03:42.11 | mikma | hohoho! http://pics.kuvaton.com/bshit/pussy_whipped_by_humon.jpg |
| 03:45.01 | Dagmar | What it needs is a shark freejumping on a motorcycle. |
| 03:45.10 | Dagmar | *Then* we'd know the thing has been Done. |
| 03:46.55 | Adys | Cide- |
| 03:47.01 | Cide- | hi |
| 03:47.13 | Adys | {'slot': 0.12999999523162842, 'total': 7665.75, 'quality': 1.1141840219497681} |
| 03:47.15 | Adys | result 1110 |
| 03:47.37 | Cide- | ok... |
| 03:47.57 | Adys | it was just a matter of getting parsing right |
| 03:48.40 | Cide- | neat |
| 03:55.56 | Wobin | Thunder_Child: yes! Pictures can be faked! |
| 03:56.03 | Wobin | Thank you for validating my point =P |
| 03:58.17 | Thunder_Child | Wobin: i can pull out the god card, but thats just mean |
| 03:58.53 | Wobin | Thunder_Child: I'm not sure why you're arguing, if we're arguing the same point =P |
| 03:59.22 | Thunder_Child | Wobin: i am saying just because you havent see it doesnt mean it isnt true |
| 03:59.30 | Thunder_Child | i know i kinda switched sides |
| 03:59.57 | Wobin | And I'm saying, until you have proof otherwise, I'll happily maintain my stance =P |
| 04:00.10 | Wobin | The onus of proof is upon -you- |
| 04:00.40 | Wobin | and waving your hands and saying "airy fairy -could- happen!" does not constitute proof of a basejumping shark |
| 04:00.43 | *** join/#wowuidev taroven|Rawr (~taroven|C@HW-ESR1-208-102-8-69.fuse.net) |
| 04:02.04 | kd3 | ooh, base-jumps? |
| 04:02.06 | Thunder_Child | Wobin: but you were the one that said it can not be done. you have to prove that it cant. just because it has not, doesnt mean it cant |
| 04:02.43 | Wobin | No |
| 04:02.50 | Wobin | I said it was silly, sharks don't basejump |
| 04:03.03 | Wobin | if you're taking the opposing stance, you're stating it's not silly, and that sharks -do- basejump |
| 04:03.07 | Thunder_Child | "<Wobin> pft, sharks don't basejump" |
| 04:03.28 | Wobin | So, show me that sharks -do- basejump, and I'll happily switch camps |
| 04:03.37 | Wobin | I'm giving you the -easy- job |
| 04:03.42 | Wobin | I'm not even asking you to prove a negative |
| 04:03.58 | Wobin | If sharks basejump, it should be -simple- to find evidence |
| 04:05.17 | Dagmar | Just catch 'em posting about it on their myspace page |
| 04:05.28 | Thunder_Child | are you saying it is impossible for sharks to basejump? |
| 04:05.53 | Wobin | No, I'm saying it's -silly- |
| 04:06.04 | Wobin | try to have some reading comprehension =P |
| 04:06.14 | Thunder_Child | you said 'dont' i was looking for clarification |
| 04:07.19 | Jamash | who cares |
| 04:07.21 | Jamash | the real question |
| 04:07.27 | Jamash | is do sharks jump over the fonz |
| 04:07.46 | kd3 | ...yes? |
| 04:07.53 | Wobin | quite possibly? |
| 04:14.50 | miica | anybody using ubuntu? |
| 04:16.14 | Sum_Wun | right here |
| 04:16.43 | miica | know any nice package which gives totem all codecs :o |
| 04:17.26 | kd3 | in fedora you'd enable the rpmfusion repos and get gstreamer-plugins-{good,bad,ugly}. it'd be something similar in ubuntu |
| 04:19.56 | miica | and does anybody know anything about h264/x264 hardware decoding under linux |
| 04:20.14 | kd3 | it's called 'vdpau' if you're using nvidia's drivers |
| 04:20.18 | Sum_Wun | yeah usually when i play something that needs some kind of codec it searches for them and eventually has me install some gstreamer stuff and then it just works |
| 04:20.28 | cbreak | x264 is encoding only, so you mean h.264 |
| 04:20.58 | Dagmar | miica: What it amounts to unless you like writing interface code is you install nVidia's driver the normal way and you're done |
| 04:21.10 | Dagmar | afaik you don't even have to get the standalone libvdpau |
| 04:21.33 | cbreak | you have if you want to get vdpau to work with mplayer |
| 04:21.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Tinyboom (~nahh@c91FD653E.dhcp.bluecom.no) |
| 04:21.39 | Dagmar | gstreamer, afaik, doesn't have vdpau support |
| 04:21.48 | cbreak | since ideally, you have to compile that yourself |
| 04:21.54 | Dagmar | mythtv does and doesn't require standalone cdpau |
| 04:21.57 | Dagmar | er vdpau |
| 04:22.06 | kd3 | looks at the build-requires of his copy of myth |
| 04:22.52 | Dagmar | kd3: A libvdpau comes with nVidia's driver package |
| 04:23.00 | miica | yeah looks like i got it |
| 04:23.15 | miica | NVIDIA binary Xorg driver, kernel module and VDPAU library |
| 04:23.16 | kd3 | yes, but that entails actually using nvidia's driver package. I kinda like my built-in libGL |
| 04:23.36 | Dagmar | I didn't install anything standalone, and I'm playing 1080 h.264 with the 8500 and an X2 4600+ |
| 04:23.56 | Dagmar | Your built-in libGL is teh slow |
| 04:24.12 | miica | well which player should i use to get hardware decoding work with "NVIDIA binary Xorg driver, kernel module and VDPAU library" |
| 04:24.21 | kd3 | mplayer? |
| 04:24.26 | Dagmar | miica: Mplayer is probably your best bet right now |
| 04:24.36 | Dagmar | VLC is still marginally behind |
| 04:24.38 | miica | need to set something? |
| 04:24.49 | Dagmar | No it should pick up on it at compile time afaik |
| 04:24.55 | Thunder_Child | <3 VLC |
| 04:25.02 | cbreak | if you want to use mplayer, your best bet is to get it from subversion and compile it |
| 04:25.10 | miica | and is totem same as mplayer but with different skin? :D |
| 04:25.14 | Dagmar | No. |
| 04:25.16 | kd3 | no |
| 04:25.19 | Arrowmaster | they dont use svn anymore |
| 04:25.20 | cbreak | mplayer doesn't have a skin |
| 04:25.23 | miica | ok |
| 04:25.25 | cbreak | sure they do :) |
| 04:25.26 | Dagmar | Totem is the frontend that uses all the gstreamer modules |
| 04:25.38 | cbreak | uau's git branch is inofficial |
| 04:25.52 | cbreak | subversion is the authorative main |
| 04:26.25 | kd3 | http://wowi.pastey.net/138101 |
| 04:27.04 | miica | ok then i need to add codecs to mplayer |
| 04:27.29 | cbreak | builtin ffmpeg should give you a lot already |
| 04:27.42 | Arrowmaster | http://medibuntu.org/ |
| 04:28.25 | miica | ok got mplayer now :P |
| 04:28.36 | miica | i need to set something to get h.264 deconding on? |
| 04:28.43 | kd3 | points at his url |
| 04:28.46 | Dagmar | Just hte stuff kd3 mentioned |
| 04:28.53 | Dagmar | after that it'll either work or it won't |
| 04:28.59 | Dagmar | There |
| 04:29.06 | Dagmar | There's generally no middle ground with vdpau |
| 04:29.21 | Arrowmaster | personally i like to use smplayer as a frontend to mplayer |
| 04:30.41 | Thunder_Child | did EA ever fix DA;O's fail party AI? |
| 04:30.50 | Thunder_Child | s/;/:/ |
| 04:31.04 | Dagmar | Didn't need fixing. |
| 04:31.09 | Thunder_Child | yes it did |
| 04:31.14 | Dagmar | Don't expect bots to carry you |
| 04:31.20 | Thunder_Child | smart AI does aoe their own party members |
| 04:31.24 | Thunder_Child | or run infront of mine |
| 04:31.42 | Thunder_Child | does not |
| 04:32.14 | Dagmar | Smart players AoE into a small, enclosed space, close the door, and wait for hte screaming to stop before going in to pick up loot. |
| 04:32.28 | Dagmar | No need to wait for the AI to make decisions for you |
| 04:32.43 | Thunder_Child | smart players should have to set theings up to compensate for stupid AI |
| 04:32.48 | Thunder_Child | shouldnt |
| 04:32.58 | Dagmar | Buy more logic slots |
| 04:32.59 | miica | kd3: installed gnome-mplayer and it dont have all those setting in it :D |
| 04:33.06 | Thunder_Child | but i'll take that as a no, hasnt been fixed |
| 04:33.09 | kd3 | it's a config file |
| 04:33.17 | miica | ok |
| 04:33.17 | kd3 | put what I've got there into ~/.mplayer/config |
| 04:33.40 | Dagmar | Thunder_Child: I get the feeling if the thing had pvp I would be murdering a lot of people |
| 04:33.54 | Arrowmaster | miica: you shouldnt use gnome-mplayer imho |
| 04:34.00 | Arrowmaster | i had issues with it |
| 04:34.07 | miica | :o |
| 04:34.37 | Thunder_Child | Dagmar: yes, your own team for starters |
| 04:34.48 | Dagmar | Thunder_Child: One thing to keep in mind is that AI will never be able to out-nasty a sufficiently motivated human |
| 04:34.54 | Thunder_Child | i wish the rated BG's had FF |
| 04:35.16 | Arrowmaster | and afaik mplayer should come with a default config that uses the correct vdpau enabled decoders when using vdpau |
| 04:35.33 | Dagmar | earthquake + lightning storm + inferno-thing == win vs everyone at once |
| 04:37.08 | miica | whyubuntu comes with stupid totem |
| 04:37.22 | Arrowmaster | miica: see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Medibuntu |
| 04:37.36 | Arrowmaster | short answer, software patents |
| 04:37.45 | kd3 | long answer goddamned software patents |
| 04:37.59 | Dagmar | better answer: fucking lawyers |
| 04:38.05 | miica | foftware patents sucks |
| 04:38.21 | miica | fucking lag |
| 04:39.54 | Arrowmaster | im still not sold on gstreamer being capable of not sucking |
| 04:40.25 | Arrowmaster | i havent seen any good explanation of how exactly it works and what should and should not be possible with it |
| 04:40.33 | Dagmar | Maybe in GNOME 3.6 |
| 04:40.47 | Dagmar | Just about anything's possible with it |
| 04:40.54 | Dagmar | ...but it's like building a car out of legos |
| 04:41.02 | Dagmar | a full-size car. |
| 04:41.17 | Arrowmaster | with a working internal combustion engine |
| 04:41.21 | Arrowmaster | made of legos |
| 04:41.32 | Thunder_Child | concidering the stuff they come out with....i believe it |
| 04:41.53 | Dagmar | Every little codec is it's own tiny little piece, with sharp little edges |
| 04:42.13 | Dagmar | Every possible form of input, and every possible form of output |
| 04:42.17 | Arrowmaster | the codecs arent my concern, its the container features that are |
| 04:42.36 | Arrowmaster | specifically mkv ordered chapters |
| 04:42.42 | Dagmar | Why, they're their own pieces as well |
| 04:43.03 | Dagmar | I'm mainlly waiting to see the vorbis stuff get support for multiple video streams |
| 04:44.11 | Dagmar | I don't have a problem trading disk space for a chance at being able to record a 1080 h.264 feed, and then re-transcode it to embed a less cpu-nomming 640x480 mpeg stream inside it for the Gateway 4 in my bedroom |
| 04:45.04 | Arrowmaster | what does that have to do with vorbis? |
| 04:45.08 | Dagmar | At the rate things are going tho, nVidia may make that needless |
| 04:45.47 | Dagmar | arrowmaster: Theora's video stuff is the only free stuff I know of that you can put multiple streams into |
| 04:46.12 | Arrowmaster | you can put multiple video streams into mkv |
| 04:46.44 | Arrowmaster | im fairly certain |
| 04:46.55 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 04:46.55 | Dagmar | ATM, nothing lets you select which one to playback based on CPU power |
| 04:47.03 | Dagmar | ...far as I've seen anyway |
| 04:47.18 | Arrowmaster | ah yeah thats a different story |
| 04:47.54 | Dagmar | By the fall nVidia's likely to have gotten ASUS to make more of those little teeny hot pocket sized boxes with an Aton N450 and something capable of vdpau tho |
| 04:48.02 | Dagmar | s/Aton/Atom/; |
| 04:49.34 | Arrowmaster | yeah im getting tempted to upgrade my wireless to 802.11n and get an htpc type system capable of decoding 1080p with builtin 802.11n |
| 04:59.01 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@c-98-251-190-189.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 05:05.38 | miica | need to add mediubuntu http://packages.medibuntu.org/lucid/hot-babe.html |
| 05:19.49 | Thunder_Child | awww, why did 'better off ted' get canceled |
| 05:34.28 | eidolarr | what does this failure to CreateFrame mean? "Couldn't find 'this' in parent object" |
| 05:35.18 | zenzelezz | http://icanhascheezburger.com/2010/06/27/funny-pictures-greg-so-immature/ |
| 05:35.40 | eidolarr | aha further investigation has revealed the hidden truth |
| 05:39.24 | Shirik | eidolarr: Probably that you're passing an invalid parent |
| 05:41.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Heather (~pirate@75-174-73-197.bois.qwest.net) |
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| 05:50.52 | batrick | http://icanhascheezburger.com/2010/05/20/funny-pictures-otto-the-goalie-kitteh/ |
| 05:51.30 | eidolarr | Shirik: you never answered me about those projects like your lua unit testing framework or lua squared |
| 05:52.43 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 05:52.43 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 06:01.15 | eidolarr | if you don't want to it's cool but i am trying to plot my trajectory for the next month |
| 06:02.51 | Thunder_Child | dont mind Shirik, he isnt intentionally rude, just....focused |
| 06:03.43 | eidolarr | don't worry, i have seen his hair, i understand |
| 06:05.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (~dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 06:05.20 | Thunder_Child | our current working theory is that he is an AI that is trying to be passed off as human |
| 06:07.06 | eidolarr | http://techcrunch.com/2010/06/25/palantir-the-next-billion-dollar-company-raises-90-million/ |
| 06:07.17 | eidolarr | all of a sudden i am glad i took the stock heavy option |
| 06:09.38 | Wobin | "and even a bubble machine that spews bubbles when someone breaks the build." |
| 06:09.42 | Wobin | ... |
| 06:10.00 | Dagmar | No. That is pure WIN. |
| 06:10.18 | Wobin | I agree |
| 06:10.32 | Wobin | that's like the sadbunny build watcher |
| 06:10.43 | eidolarr | they also have 6 (???) guitar controllers for their rock band xbox |
| 06:10.54 | Wobin | well, as long as they don't get corrupted |
| 06:11.01 | Wobin | like the original users of the Palantir |
| 06:11.09 | Wobin | that would be bad =( |
| 06:11.40 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 06:11.48 | eidolarr | i never made it that far in lotr |
| 06:11.59 | eidolarr | i got to rivendell and it was just too much |
| 06:12.22 | Corrodias | interesting... |
| 06:14.12 | Shirik | wtf |
| 06:14.16 | Shirik | what do you mean you've seen my hair |
| 06:14.24 | Shirik | and I haven't had time to look for them sorry |
| 06:14.56 | Dagmar | eidolarr: That just tells us they're all too afraid to sing. |
| 06:15.03 | miica | now my ubuntu gdm decided not let me inside X :D |
| 06:15.15 | miica | reason unknown i start be pissed soon :< |
| 06:15.20 | Dagmar | miica: Giving you a weird error about ... |
| 06:15.24 | Dagmar | miice: I think I know this one |
| 06:15.32 | Dagmar | Somfing about gconf, yes? |
| 06:15.46 | miica | well i tried look confs |
| 06:15.52 | miica | but didint get anything useful out |
| 06:16.03 | Dagmar | No seriously... Was the error dialog it showed before it punted you back out about gconf |
| 06:16.05 | miica | it is /var/log/gdm/:0-greeter.log ? |
| 06:16.22 | Dagmar | If it *was* go check permissions on your /tmp directory |
| 06:16.30 | miica | well gdm lets me log but then comes black screen and it get back to login screen |
| 06:16.39 | Dagmar | No dialog box in between? |
| 06:16.44 | eidolarr | Dagmar: lol |
| 06:16.49 | miica | Dagmar: nope |
| 06:16.54 | miica | Dagmar: atleast i dont see any |
| 06:16.54 | eidolarr | i think they bought every model of the guitar that came out |
| 06:16.54 | Dagmar | Hmm... |
| 06:16.59 | eidolarr | including that ridiculous $300 one |
| 06:17.04 | *** join/#wowuidev TannerF (~TannerF@firefox/community/pilif12p) |
| 06:17.07 | Dagmar | miica: Look carefully at whatever you selected for your *session* |
| 06:17.27 | Dagmar | miica: Odds are it's set to something insanely broken, like an empty or missing shell script |
| 06:18.10 | Dagmar | eidolarr: I'm not afraid to sing, but... Nine Inch Nails... It *clears rooms* of people who listen to country. |
| 06:18.11 | Dagmar | heheh |
| 06:18.21 | miica | Dagmar: dont have session selection in GDM which file i can check it+ :D |
| 06:18.50 | Dagmar | miica: It's in the options to enable that but I thought you were using Ubuntu, which has those across the bottom of the screen by default |
| 06:19.03 | miica | yes i am using ubuntu and there aint those |
| 06:19.05 | miica | 10.04 atm |
| 06:19.12 | Dagmar | WTF. |
| 06:19.23 | Dagmar | Is this a *new* install? |
| 06:19.28 | miica | yes |
| 06:19.49 | miica | when i select user i see language and keybord options |
| 06:19.54 | miica | but nothing about sessions |
| 06:20.02 | miica | i remember there was session in older versions |
| 06:20.09 | Shirik | eidolarr did you see my response? |
| 06:20.10 | Dagmar | Okay, *still*... That could easily be the retarded /tmp mangling I've seen it do twice lately. Smack your way into a text console with ctl-alt-f2,f3,whateveryoulike, login there, then look at /tmp |
| 06:20.47 | Dagmar | miica: If the permissions on it are not drwxrwxrwt (the t at the end is very important) then it's an easy thing to fix |
| 06:21.06 | Dagmar | tmp beign broken takes X session handling and GNOME and just snaps it's over it's knee. |
| 06:21.12 | miica | hmm.. /var/log/gdm/:0-greeter.log says "Default session is not avaible" |
| 06:21.15 | eidolarr | Shirik: yeah I meant the collaboration more than the code base, but if you're busy you're busy |
| 06:21.30 | Shirik | not sure what you mean by that |
| 06:21.32 | Dagmar | miica: That's just... unpossible. Check /tmp |
| 06:21.59 | Shirik | ln -s /tmp /dev/null |
| 06:22.10 | Dagmar | On a *new* install of Ubuntu 10.04 you *should* see a strip with settings and a power button icon on it along the bottom of the screen on the GDM greeter |
| 06:22.15 | miica | 1st line says Failed to read saved session file /var/lib/gdm |
| 06:22.20 | Dagmar | If you're not seeing it, something major broke |
| 06:22.30 | Dagmar | Is your *disk full* or something? |
| 06:22.40 | miica | no such file or directory :P |
| 06:22.49 | miica | no disk full |
| 06:22.57 | eidolarr | Shirik: I wanted to know if you wanted to work together on either of those projects |
| 06:23.02 | batrick | points over to the #ubuntu channel |
| 06:23.08 | Shirik | sure |
| 06:23.26 | Dagmar | Meh. If it's a brand new instlal I'd just reboot the CD and tell it to do it again |
| 06:24.04 | Dagmar | their installer for 10.04 has twice now flaked out and made /tmp *not* temp-sticky on me |
| 06:24.16 | Dagmar | ...which breaks a crapload of everythings. |
| 06:24.19 | miica | to folder in /tmp orbit-gdm is one and permission is drwx |
| 06:24.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 06:24.41 | Dagmar | This doesn't much matter. |
| 06:25.39 | Dagmar | ...but if /tmp isn't 1777, it needs to be made so |
| 06:25.45 | Fisker | slaps Shirik around a bit with a large trout |
| 06:25.47 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 06:26.10 | Dagmar | (That's _mode_ 1777, or drwxrwxrwt on a directory) |
| 06:26.18 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 06:26.22 | Shirik | hey Fisker |
| 06:26.27 | miica | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:26.33 | Fisker | you might not know this Shirik |
| 06:26.36 | Fisker | but i just slapped you |
| 06:26.53 | Shirik | I do know this |
| 06:26.56 | Shirik | but thanks for checking |
| 06:27.05 | Fisker | so we cool? |
| 06:27.14 | Shirik | we cool |
| 06:27.16 | miica | problem is :D |
| 06:27.42 | miica | got wow installed and not wow install disc here and 512/512 DSL connection |
| 06:28.08 | miica | wow is around 17GB? and it takes YEARS download and i got icc10lkhc today :OO |
| 06:28.38 | Shirik | unlikely |
| 06:29.03 | Jerub | miica: put your addons ona usb drive and go to a web cafe for your raid |
| 06:29.04 | Dagmar | miica: Well, there *should be* a /var/lib/gdm mode 750 gdm:gdm |
| 06:29.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Diao (vince@adsl-99-17-207-231.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 06:29.19 | Dagmar | miica: If there's not then something broke it on you |
| 06:29.30 | Dagmar | GDM *may not* have installed correctly |
| 06:30.29 | miica | i am in Finland we dont realy have webcafes and even if we have few probably in Helsinki i am in country side (thats why lowe connection) and nerest house around 20km :D |
| 06:30.31 | Dagmar | Someone in #ubuntu will (unless people are getting ever-stupider by the day) be able to tell you specifically which package name gdm lives in |
| 06:31.03 | Dagmar | Could be 'gdm' but I dont' know their package names all that well yet |
| 06:31.26 | miica | looks like i need to go there |
| 06:31.35 | miica | tried finnish ubuntu channel already but i is kinda dead |
| 06:31.56 | Dagmar | Hmm... looks like it's named 'gdm' after all |
| 06:32.14 | Dagmar | http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/i386/gdm/filelist |
| 06:33.25 | Dagmar | Time to use apt from the console I guess |
| 06:34.31 | miica | been using console always :P |
| 06:36.16 | Corrodias | i like how it lists files in over 15 different directories |
| 06:36.35 | Dagmar | GDM hooks into *everything* to make gnome a bit faster |
| 06:36.39 | Corrodias | wonder what this gdm mang is |
| 06:37.18 | Dagmar | It is the thing that keeps us from the evil of XDM. |
| 06:37.57 | Jerub | ugh, friend had his account hacked. |
| 06:38.40 | Jerub | like, just now |
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| 06:52.41 | Adys | !api armor |
| 06:52.42 | lua_bot | Found 2 possible results for 'armor': UnitArmor, GetArmorPenetration |
| 06:52.52 | Adys | !api stat |
| 06:52.52 | lua_bot | Found 80 possible matches for 'stat'. Please be more specific |
| 06:52.56 | Adys | !api itemstat |
| 06:52.56 | lua_bot | Found 2 possible results for 'itemstat': GetItemStatDelta, GetItemStats |
| 06:53.18 | Adys | Is there an easy way to get an item's armor? |
| 06:55.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (~Vilkku@86-60-145-155-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi) |
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| 07:38.12 | tekkub | I feel like an idiot |
| 07:38.21 | tekkub | what's lua's string strip? |
| 07:38.25 | batrick | shouldn't be a new feeling for you |
| 07:38.31 | tekkub | string.strip seems to not exist, I swore it did |
| 07:38.36 | batrick | :O |
| 07:38.42 | batrick | thought it was strstrip |
| 07:38.48 | tekkub | that didn't work either |
| 07:38.59 | batrick | don't really need it anyway |
| 07:39.03 | batrick | one liner with gsub |
| 07:39.12 | tekkub | string.trim maybe |
| 07:39.25 | tekkub | yup |
| 07:39.35 | batrick | "^%s*(.-)%s$" |
| 07:39.42 | batrick | err |
| 07:39.45 | batrick | "^%s*(.-)%s*$" |
| 07:41.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Alram (~Marla@fabe.xs4all.nl) |
| 07:41.58 | batrick | love it when i turn my volume up to hear people on skype and then play music only to have my ears bleed |
| 07:46.34 | Xinhuan | what OS do you use? |
| 07:46.54 | batrick | i know i should just turn up skype in the volume manager |
| 07:50.01 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 07:52.20 | Wobin | anyone a fury dps warrior? |
| 07:54.40 | jnwhiteh | Adys: GetItemStats() |
| 07:55.33 | Adys | ohhh |
| 07:55.35 | Adys | RESISTANCE0 |
| 08:02.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 08:03.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Windaria (~Denial@unaffiliated/windaria) |
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| 08:17.40 | miica | did Dagmar leave. |
| 08:17.52 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar never leaves |
| 08:18.45 | miica | found my problem :D |
| 08:18.58 | miica | when i installer gnome-mplayer etc |
| 08:19.15 | miica | so i decided i dont need totem anymore |
| 08:19.31 | miica | and when i removed totem.. t removed GNOME :DD |
| 08:19.39 | Arrowmaster | duh |
| 08:19.48 | Arrowmaster | totem is a requirement of the gnome package |
| 08:19.52 | miica | thats why i didint have gnome in sessions |
| 08:21.39 | Arrowmaster | even ive still got totem installed because its a dependency of gnome-desktop-environment so its required for gnome to be installed |
| 08:22.15 | miica | kinda stupid |
| 08:22.40 | miica | same as having IE because you got windows |
| 08:23.02 | Arrowmaster | which is why i keep telling myself i need to drop gnome |
| 08:23.10 | Arrowmaster | especially before gnome 3 |
| 08:23.19 | miica | xfce4 |
| 08:23.29 | miica | kubuntu wasnt bad |
| 08:23.54 | Arrowmaster | all ubuntu's are bad |
| 08:24.07 | miica | but then there isnt dropbox example |
| 08:24.26 | Arrowmaster | dropbox? |
| 08:24.48 | miica | you dont know dropbox? |
| 08:25.03 | Arrowmaster | i know of it ive just never used it on linux |
| 08:25.19 | Arrowmaster | ah it depends on nautilus |
| 08:25.24 | miica | there is dropbox for linux too |
| 08:25.35 | miica | yeah it needs nautilus |
| 08:26.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@dsl4E5C04BD.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 08:26.18 | miica | or you can use iit wihtout nautilus too |
| 08:26.33 | miica | but then you dotn get those nice "copy public link" |
| 08:27.07 | miica | but which distro you gonna pick if not ubuntu? :) |
| 08:30.09 | *** join/#wowuidev felipe` (~felipe@my.nada.kth.se) |
| 08:43.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (~kalroth@mail1.retailplanit.com) |
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| 08:47.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Shadowed (~Shadowed@li53-10.members.linode.com) |
| 08:47.46 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shadowed] by ChanServ |
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| 09:21.18 | Shadowed | Adys sigrie doesn't have ruby sanctum achievements yet |
| 09:21.20 | Shadowed | stop being lazy |
| 09:22.14 | Adys | it had, my sysadmin fucked up |
| 09:22.14 | Adys | deleted the db. |
| 09:22.15 | Adys | had to up a backup and its a couple weeks old |
| 09:22.15 | Adys | and Im lazy so fu. |
| 09:22.17 | Adys | Shadowed: gimme live build # ill process achievements for you |
| 09:22.20 | Adys | because ill love you |
| 09:23.28 | Shadowed | 12213 |
| 09:23.37 | Shadowed | your sysadmin is bad |
| 09:24.29 | Shadowed | thanks pal |
| 09:29.47 | Fisker | you could always steal sigrie |
| 09:29.50 | Fisker | and make it your own |
| 09:30.52 | Adys | Shadowed: done |
| 09:31.03 | Adys | http://db.mmo-champion.com/latest?123 |
| 09:31.49 | Shadowed | Hrm did things not populate yet then? |
| 09:31.55 | Shadowed | http://elitistarmory.com/experience#d11 getting not found |
| 09:31.56 | Adys | it's prolly cache |
| 09:32.00 | Adys | just append some shit to the url |
| 09:32.05 | Shadowed | not a big deal |
| 09:32.07 | Shadowed | off to sleep |
| 09:32.10 | Adys | night |
| 09:36.02 | Spejnar | :O |
| 09:40.28 | Arrowmaster | heh i got a letter saying i made the deans list last semester |
| 09:40.50 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 09:42.41 | olafski | is that a good or bad thing? |
| 09:46.09 | Fisker | hey Arrowmaster |
| 09:58.44 | Adys | Um |
| 09:59.01 | Adys | math.ceil(x) == math.floor(x+05) right |
| 09:59.05 | Adys | 0.5* |
| 09:59.22 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 10:00.39 | Adys | Oh |
| 10:00.40 | Adys | nvm |
| 10:07.32 | Arrowmaster | so which language are you using? looks like lua but knowing you its not lua |
| 10:08.01 | Xinhuan | the rhs of that is rounding off |
| 10:08.46 | Xinhuan | if you want a ceil() behavior using floor(), you need to negate it twice i think |
| 10:08.57 | Arrowmaster | yeah lua doesnt have a math.round so you have to use math.ceil or math.floor to do it after picking a tie breaking method from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rounding |
| 10:09.02 | Xinhuan | something like that: x = -math.floor(-x) |
| 10:10.28 | Arrowmaster | lua> x=math.random(100); return x,math.ceil(x),-math.floor(-x) |
| 10:10.30 | lua_bot | Arrowmaster: 1, 1, 1 |
| 10:10.35 | Arrowmaster | oh fuck you |
| 10:11.00 | Arrowmaster | lua> x=math.random(1,100); return x,math.ceil(x),-math.floor(-x) |
| 10:11.00 | lua_bot | Arrowmaster: 12, 12, 12 |
| 10:11.19 | Arrowmaster | doh, integer |
| 10:11.36 | Arrowmaster | lua> x=math.random()*10; return x,math.ceil(x),-math.floor(-x) |
| 10:11.36 | lua_bot | Arrowmaster: 5.1807584963649, 6, 6 |
| 10:11.57 | Arrowmaster | lua> x=math.random()*10; return x,math.ceil(x),-math.floor(-x) |
| 10:11.57 | lua_bot | Arrowmaster: 0.37076621333638, 1, 1 |
| 10:12.17 | Arrowmaster | lua> x=math.random()*-10; return x,math.ceil(x),-math.floor(-x) |
| 10:12.17 | lua_bot | Arrowmaster: -2.0641293432862, -2, -2 |
| 10:19.45 | Fisker | hey Arrowmaster |
| 10:22.15 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 10:37.00 | Fisker | i killed you mr. Shirik |
| 10:37.03 | Fisker | i watched you die |
| 10:38.55 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@d86-33-7-18.cust.tele2.at) |
| 10:39.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Thrae (~ircuser@generalmx-1-pt.tunnel.tserv13.ash1.ipv6.he.net) |
| 10:42.16 | Fisker | Thraemen |
| 10:43.22 | Thrae | Fisker: yo |
| 10:45.53 | Arrowmaster | http://pbh3.tumblr.com/post/736939453/what-happens-when-you-blow-a-vuvuzela-in-a-dogs-face |
| 10:45.58 | Arrowmaster | haha |
| 10:48.15 | Fisker | instant karma |
| 10:51.23 | Arrowmaster | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgoOBV_5PFA |
| 10:52.59 | Fisker | how can i kill you Thrae |
| 10:54.05 | Fisker | :o |
| 10:54.19 | Fisker | Korea gets SC2 for free |
| 10:54.20 | Fisker | fre |
| 10:54.22 | Fisker | freeeeeeeeeeeee |
| 10:55.39 | olafski | guess they're worried those guys will stick with SC1 :P |
| 10:55.56 | Arrowmaster | they get some sorta subscription fee or something though right? |
| 10:56.44 | Fisker | yeah |
| 10:56.52 | Fisker | but it's free if you have a WoW sub |
| 10:58.54 | Thrae | Fisker: I am like the Lich King. Slay me and someone must rise to take my place. In a sense, I am immortal. |
| 10:59.14 | Fisker | wrong |
| 11:01.15 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@d86-33-7-18.cust.tele2.at) |
| 11:01.30 | Fisker | hey stolenlegacy |
| 11:01.33 | Fisker | Thrae is wrong |
| 11:01.46 | stolenlegacy | Fisker: hm |
| 11:02.53 | Fisker | indeed stolenlegacy |
| 11:03.35 | Fisker | Thrae can't stop me |
| 11:06.21 | Thrae | Fisker: The FBI will stop you. |
| 11:06.51 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 11:08.26 | Fisker | they wont |
| 11:12.05 | Arrowmaster | damnit why did i stop reading my feed reader completely when my google reader integration broke, i missed some gems from the stuff thats not using google reader |
| 11:12.08 | Arrowmaster | http://www.enricozini.org/2010/cazzeggio/on-software-modularity/ |
| 11:12.53 | stolenlegacy | haha |
| 11:13.17 | stolenlegacy | ohh i see what he did there |
| 11:15.53 | *** join/#wowuidev theorbtwo (~theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 11:16.55 | Arrowmaster | rofl this is a gem too |
| 11:17.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Caellian (~sdkyron@ip-80-236-227-3.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 11:17.16 | Arrowmaster | ive got these 3 related things in my feed because two are replys to the first one |
| 11:17.33 | Arrowmaster | first two rather boring LDAP crap |
| 11:17.36 | Arrowmaster | http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Idea_for_a_change_to_LDAP_schemas_allowing_DNS_and_DHCP_info_to_be_combined_into_one_object.html |
| 11:17.43 | Arrowmaster | http://grep.be/blog/en/computer/cluebat/pere_ldap |
| 11:17.58 | Arrowmaster | the real gem is the 3rd one http://hezmatt.org/~mpalmer/blog/general/on_ldap_objectclasses.html |
| 11:18.27 | stolenlegacy | second one is unresolvable |
| 11:18.40 | stolenlegacy | haha |
| 11:18.50 | Arrowmaster | i dont even give a damn about the LDAP discussion |
| 11:21.53 | krka | http://www.gametrailers.com/user-movie/vuvuzela-in-doom/346237 haha |
| 11:23.31 | Fisker | so Thrae |
| 11:23.38 | Fisker | how is it being mortal? |
| 11:27.46 | Fisker | kills Torhal |
| 11:27.51 | Fisker | even though it's Thrae |
| 11:30.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (~xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 11:31.01 | Thrae | Fisker is only fixated on me because I told purl he was not only a troll, but one who links to CP. |
| 11:32.55 | Fisker | hey Thrae |
| 11:32.58 | Fisker | you're dead |
| 11:33.11 | Thrae | Cool, Gothic II + III is only $5 on Steam. Dammit, I need to stop spending money on Steam. |
| 11:33.28 | Fisker | YOU |
| 11:33.29 | Fisker | ARE |
| 11:33.29 | frontendloader | valve needs to stop sending viral marketers into irc |
| 11:33.30 | Fisker | DEAD |
| 11:33.36 | frontendloader | saying things like that |
| 11:35.17 | Thrae | No, I'm a real Steam-a-holic. |
| 11:36.00 | Fisker | hey Thrae |
| 11:36.12 | Thrae | If it was viral marketing, wouldn't I say something like, "Boy I love Steam!" Instead I'm saying it has crossed the line of where my impulse control ends. |
| 11:37.01 | frontendloader | thats what valve wants us to think |
| 11:37.28 | Fisker | i want to kill you Thrae |
| 11:37.37 | Fisker | but you're already dead |
| 11:40.26 | Fisker | so Thrae |
| 11:40.29 | Fisker | how can i not kill you |
| 11:40.33 | Fisker | when you're dead |
| 11:42.01 | Fisker | win Thrae |
| 11:45.18 | airtonix | enter much ? |
| 11:45.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 11:47.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Heather (~pirate@75-174-92-233.bois.qwest.net) |
| 11:47.36 | *** part/#wowuidev Heather (~pirate@75-174-92-233.bois.qwest.net) |
| 11:48.24 | miica | got problem when user joins raid it fires raid_roster_updated but when i get rosterinfo about peeps in raid new member dont always be there :o |
| 11:50.33 | airtonix | lol |
| 11:51.13 | airtonix | blows a Vuvuzela in fiskers face |
| 11:53.43 | Fisker | likes |
| 12:01.24 | jnwhiteh | miica: when RAID_ROSTER_UPDATE fires, the information about the people in your raid is there |
| 12:01.28 | jnwhiteh | that's just how the event works. |
| 12:01.46 | jnwhiteh | Now, it can fire multiple times in sequence, but the API still reflects the makeup of your raid when the event is received. |
| 12:02.40 | Olison | likes Fisker |
| 12:03.32 | Fisker | likes Olison |
| 12:03.39 | Olison | =) |
| 12:03.41 | Fisker | :( |
| 12:03.43 | Alram | likes Alram |
| 12:04.01 | Fisker | homo |
| 12:04.07 | Alram | no homo :( |
| 12:04.08 | Olison | egomo |
| 12:04.17 | jnwhiteh | yes homo. |
| 12:04.24 | Alram | :( |
| 12:05.07 | Fisker | jnwhiteh is the leading expert |
| 12:05.09 | Fisker | so he's right |
| 12:05.31 | Olison | bit harsh, bit harsh |
| 12:06.02 | *** join/#wowuidev cyndis (cyndis@kapsi.fi) |
| 12:07.29 | *** join/#wowuidev boshi_dev (~chris@c-68-36-37-83.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 12:18.13 | Xinhuan | why does every chatframe have its own chatbox now? |
| 12:18.27 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 12:20.31 | Maldivia | Xinhuan: IM style, can be disabled in the settings |
| 12:20.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Tinyboom (~nahh@c91FD653E.dhcp.bluecom.no) |
| 12:21.09 | airtonix | blows a Vuvuzela in fiskers face |
| 12:21.37 | Xinhuan | hmm |
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| 12:41.41 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 12:53.56 | Wobin | yay |
| 12:53.59 | Wobin | PP10 down |
| 12:56.38 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar_atwork (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 12:59.01 | Kalroth | Powerpacker 1.0? |
| 13:02.05 | Zyn | PowerPoint |
| 13:09.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Ycarene (jporterf@24-116-56-41.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 13:10.32 | airtonix | yarr |
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| 14:12.53 | Fisker | sweet |
| 14:13.01 | Fisker | Blizzard might as well remove master looter now |
| 14:13.11 | Kaso | hm? |
| 14:13.34 | Fisker | i was under the impression that master looter meant that you decided who got loot |
| 14:13.41 | Funkeh` | you doing some trolling there Fisker |
| 14:13.44 | Fisker | no |
| 14:14.29 | Kaso | whats up, some GM reallocated your loot or something? |
| 14:14.36 | Fisker | naw |
| 14:14.39 | Fisker | i'm not a jerk |
| 14:14.45 | Fisker | and i don't pug with jerks anyway |
| 14:14.59 | Kaso | So why you complaining about ML ? |
| 14:15.00 | Fisker | Anyway they decided that apparently the master looter isn't the master of loot |
| 14:15.22 | Shirik | I thought master looter means I get everything |
| 14:15.43 | Fisker | Because in the case that it might apply to me i don't want some retard griefing my group by opening up frivolous tickets in order to defraud a GM into ninjaing items from me |
| 14:16.03 | Kaso | I think in some cases if the loot rules are expressly said in raid chat and the master looter doesnt follow those rules GMs will intervene |
| 14:16.07 | Kaso | whats the situation here though? |
| 14:16.11 | Fisker | Shirik it means that you are the master of loot, GM approval pending |
| 14:16.20 | Fisker | Kaso no rules were specified |
| 14:16.24 | Fisker | they assumed, acted, and banned |
| 14:16.37 | Fisker | contrary to their own policy on the matter |
| 14:16.44 | Shirik | wtf |
| 14:16.45 | Shirik | ? |
| 14:16.51 | Shirik | did you appeal? |
| 14:17.00 | Fisker | it isn't me who got burned |
| 14:17.02 | Fisker | i don't ninja |
| 14:17.04 | Fisker | but yeah he did |
| 14:17.09 | *** join/#wowuidev amro (~amro@li37-20.members.linode.com) |
| 14:17.14 | Shirik | oh |
| 14:17.22 | Fisker | GM just closed the thread on the spot and said "lol here's your proof" |
| 14:17.38 | Fisker | http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=13817254475&sid=1#10 |
| 14:17.44 | Fisker | "Even if we didn’t have enough evidence before, we certainly do now!" |
| 14:17.45 | Fisker | hurr |
| 14:17.45 | Fisker | durr |
| 14:17.47 | Fisker | derp derp derp |
| 14:18.14 | Thrae | A good thread on this matter of Master Looting is http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/13817252583/is-ninjalooting-bannable/ , with multiple Blue responses clarifying their policies (and links to their policies). |
| 14:18.24 | Fisker | i know what the policies are Thrae |
| 14:18.35 | Fisker | ninjalooting is never bannable(atleast not until today) |
| 14:18.45 | Fisker | But saying you will do A, and then do B is a scam |
| 14:18.45 | Shirik | lmao at this though: "Unfortunately, neither of us rolled well, and so I took the trinket despite this." |
| 14:18.47 | Fisker | and actionable |
| 14:18.47 | Thrae | Well it also talks about if Ninja Looting is indeed bannable, and what is Ninja Looting. |
| 14:19.06 | Fisker | "ninja looting" |
| 14:19.13 | Fisker | in quotes for a reason Thrae |
| 14:19.22 | Fisker | it's not actually what Blizzard defines as ninjalooting |
| 14:19.59 | Thrae | "This is true if no clear loot distribution agreement was made before the start of the raid. However, if loot distribution rules had been made clear and agreed upon, then we will indeed take action against the 'ninja-looter'" <-- what Vaneras, a Blizzard employee, said, clarifying what is a "ninja-looter" |
| 14:20.30 | Fisker | again "ninja-looter" |
| 14:20.38 | Fisker | Either way it is irrelevant |
| 14:20.48 | Fisker | Since the person in question did not specify any rules |
| 14:20.58 | Fisker | therefor he cannot be actioned, sinced no agreement was in place |
| 14:21.02 | Fisker | since* |
| 14:21.10 | Thrae | Fisker: That's true, according to the policy |
| 14:21.37 | Thrae | But Master Looter is different |
| 14:21.42 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower|Work (~MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 14:21.43 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower|Work] by ChanServ |
| 14:22.03 | Fisker | What do you mean? |
| 14:22.11 | Fisker | the policy is only regarding master looter |
| 14:22.14 | Fisker | so it can't be different |
| 14:22.53 | Fisker | If you win an item through group loot, regardless of what you or the raidleader stated, then you won the item, and it is in no way considered actionable |
| 14:23.09 | Thrae | It is different for a Master Looter. If you join a raid with a Master Looter, you are already giving up your looting rights to the Master Looter. And if you never hear a definition of the loot rules, doesn't that mean they're up to the Master Looter? |
| 14:23.21 | Fisker | yes that's exactly it |
| 14:23.35 | Fisker | If a master looter doesn't make any agreement, then he can give out loot as he sees fit |
| 14:23.52 | Thrae | So I don't see anything but "Don't be a freakin' dumbass" here |
| 14:23.54 | Fisker | However if a master looter does make an agreement, then he is bound by that agreement |
| 14:24.03 | Fisker | Agreed Thrae |
| 14:24.26 | Thrae | Or, more politically correct, "Don't be a sheep." |
| 14:24.34 | Fisker | But Blizzard apparently took it upon themselves to knock it up a notch and action someone who were the master looter, who did not agree to any loot distribution other than Master Looter |
| 14:26.07 | *** join/#wowuidev malreth (~triti@dhcp-128-83-186-188.its.utexas.edu) |
| 14:26.10 | Thrae | Fisker: Well, they DID mention in that thread I posted, "Please bear in mind that this is a relatively new policy, and we’re constantly looking for ways to improve and clarify the situation (for players and game masters alike). Please email WoWConcernsEU@blizzard.com if you disagree with the decision made by the Game Masters who handled your ticket. Our Senior Game Masters should be able to review the case if you do this." |
| 14:26.45 | Thrae | Fisker: That implies that while they did just specify the policy (on the European forums), they did NOT say you are without arbitration rights (even if they ignore you) |
| 14:27.25 | Thrae | That response shows to me that it's up to the GM's (especially Senior GM's) discretion |
| 14:27.41 | Fisker | Well if you're trying to argue that they can decide what they will |
| 14:27.43 | Fisker | sure |
| 14:28.07 | Fisker | It's still not acceptable |
| 14:28.40 | Thrae | No, I'm trying to say they have a policy in place that they, themselves, say is in "flux" and "may be up to the GM's discretion", which is different from saying, "These are the rules we follow, period." |
| 14:29.11 | Thrae | Of course if it's in "flux", that means you have every right to debate the GM's decision too |
| 14:30.18 | Fisker | You can't expect people to go by rules that can radically change from GM to GM |
| 14:30.44 | Fisker | Then they might as well save themselves the trouble and remove master looter |
| 14:31.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Mihau_ (~asmith@69.73.16.202) |
| 14:31.50 | Fisker | If Blizzard do not want to live with the consequences of having a loot method that makes the loot master decide how loot should be given, then save us, yourself, and everyone the time of wasting time opening tickets and just default to Need Before Greed |
| 14:31.55 | *** join/#wowuidev theorbtwo (~theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 14:32.07 | Thrae | It's not "rules that change by GM to GM", it's one rule -- the rule of abitration. The GM system of WoW Law isn't like a normal legal system. What one GM decides is not precedent for everyone else. |
| 14:32.14 | Maldivia | if no loot rules are announced, then its fully up to the master looter who gets the loot, if he wants the highest roller to get the item or take it for himself, that's his right |
| 14:32.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Fierceflame (~timo.meij@ip231-37-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 14:33.04 | Mihau | loves Trela. |
| 14:33.12 | Fisker | Thrae that's exactly the issue |
| 14:33.39 | Fisker | As you can see, he had his item taken away, and on similar conditions the ninja got away |
| 14:33.48 | Fisker | Either the ninja gets away with it or he doesn't |
| 14:33.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Mihau (~asmith@69.73.16.202) |
| 14:34.12 | Fisker | if he shouldn't get away with it, then fine, Blizzard isn't mature enough to handle Master Looter, cut it from the game |
| 14:34.36 | Fisker | If he should get away with it, then it should be that for all similar cases, and not up to debate when it is or isn't a scam |
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| 14:38.14 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 14:38.44 | Thrae | Fisker: I just read the thread you originally posted and I think, in this specific instance, the GMs were right in what they did but wrong in the way they explained it. Not explaining your rules for Master Looter doesn't mean the rules exist in a vaccuum. I think you need to use the idea here of what is "reasonably expected given the behavior of the Master Looter," that being if everyone is rolling on items, INCLUDING ... |
| 14:38.51 | Thrae | ... the Master Looter, then it's implied that the rules are you roll on items at least the Master Looter is rolling on. |
| 14:39.33 | Thrae | Fisker: If the Master Looter had NOT rolled on the item, then I think they would have had a much stronger case and maybe not lost it to the GMs. |
| 14:39.54 | Fisker | And there's the danger |
| 14:40.05 | Fisker | You make assumptions based on social interaction |
| 14:40.23 | Fisker | In our guild, loot isn't rolled on, but qualifying yourself for loot is |
| 14:40.28 | Fisker | I roll to show interest in an item |
| 14:40.37 | Fisker | Who's to say that he didn't consider the same mechanic? |
| 14:40.38 | Thrae | I'm saying assumptions have to be made with this policy, but *reasonable* assumptions. |
| 14:40.59 | Maldivia | Thrae: the way blizzard desdcribes it, if nothing is stated and there is a master looter, then the master looter makes the decisions |
| 14:41.08 | Fisker | And that's the danger |
| 14:41.25 | Thrae | Maldivia: I know. Me and Fisker already fleshed that out. Did you look at the thread Fisker posted? |
| 14:41.31 | Maldivia | yeah |
| 14:41.35 | Fisker | Not only will those "reasonable" assumptions vary from GM to GM, it is possible from a third party to influence loot decisions based on these "reasonable" assumptions |
| 14:41.47 | Thrae | Maldivia: So you know that's against your literal interpretation. |
| 14:42.59 | Fisker | So all i'm saying is that either Blizzard just cuts ML from the game, save themselves time on making horrible assumptions about loot, or they follow the policy to the letter. |
| 14:43.11 | Fisker | I could've and would've likely done the same thing as him |
| 14:43.18 | Fisker | That is i would've said so |
| 14:43.33 | Fisker | But giving the tokens to the best performers would definitely have been a possibility |
| 14:43.37 | Thrae | Fisker , Maldivia : Well if we look at policies like the Law and GM arbitration like the Judicial System, doesn't it make sense there can be changes to the *interpretation* of the Law by the Arbitrators? If anything, Blizzard has made it clear through *actions* over and over again that decisions made through Arbritation are *final*, unlike policy disputes. |
| 14:43.41 | Fisker | though not stealing DBW for myself |
| 14:43.48 | Kaso | Honestly i think by doing what you do you were deliberately attempting to deceive other players that all the loot was available when in fact you had reserved an item. even if it was deception by inaction, its still deception |
| 14:44.48 | foxlit | aw, c'mon. |
| 14:44.49 | Fisker | I'm not saying he's not a jerk Kaso, i'm just saying that Blizzard made this policy to not impact their vision of Master Looter |
| 14:44.59 | Thrae | Kaso: However in Fisker's anarchial interpretation of "Master Looter with no rules", couldn't the Master Looter just decide, right-then-and-there, that he's reserving the item AS it drops? What I'm saying is that there have to be *reasonable* assumptions, and what Fisker is saying is that it's total anarchy without rules. |
| 14:45.14 | foxlit | 9 packets transmitted, 4 packets received, 55.6% packet loss :( |
| 14:45.17 | Fisker | The only reason why i didn't say anything against this policy to begin with was because Blizzard themselves said that they would let master looter be master looter |
| 14:45.58 | Thrae | Fisker: Nothing in Blizzard's world exists in total anarchy. |
| 14:46.13 | Fisker | Thrae, players can 100% guarantee that they won't be ninjaed |
| 14:46.22 | Fisker | Compromising the functionality of Master Looter is pointless |
| 14:46.31 | Fisker | Players gotta stop acting like sheep |
| 14:46.32 | Kaso | I think the conclusion you should draw is that if you don't want GMs fiddling with your loot, you should state explicitly what you are going to with loot. |
| 14:46.43 | Kaso | Even if you state "im going to assign loot randomly" |
| 14:47.01 | Fisker | And what if i see that the person who won the item didn't even deserve it? |
| 14:47.20 | Thrae | Kaso: What Fisker is complaining about is that the OP in that thread has points, such as http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/13817252583/is-ninjalooting-bannable/ which says the exact opposite of what happened (and agrees with Fisker) |
| 14:47.21 | Kaso | you should have considered your rules better at the start of the raid |
| 14:47.32 | Fisker | Either i will have to list any possible eventuality of giving out loot or i will have to say "All loot go to me, unless otherwise given out to someone els" |
| 14:47.45 | Fisker | else* |
| 14:48.03 | Maldivia | well, that's the default behaviour for master loot |
| 14:48.09 | Fisker | Master Loot is, and should be implicit "All loot goes to me, unless i choose otherwise" |
| 14:48.10 | Fisker | yes Maldivia |
| 14:48.25 | Fisker | It takes 1 out of 24 people to grow a fucking pair and ask what the loot rules are |
| 14:49.32 | foxlit | Meh, the "list every eventuality" stance has lower requirements on the average raid member. |
| 14:49.50 | Fisker | maybe so |
| 14:50.02 | Fisker | But as i said, if they don't want to live with how Master Looter works, then remove it. |
| 14:50.20 | foxlit | And as someone who does ask what the loot rules are, I can assure you that that question is ignored more often than not. |
| 14:51.04 | Fisker | Which means you either ask him to state the loot rules, or you leave the group |
| 14:51.18 | Fisker | i.e. have you fullfilled the prereqs of growing a pair, that shouldn't be an issue |
| 14:51.55 | Thrae | Fisker: What good is a policy that supports total anarchy without any appeal process? |
| 14:52.02 | foxlit | Should pop up a "do you consent to X being the master looter?" box, tbh |
| 14:52.14 | Fisker | Ask Blizzard Thrae |
| 14:52.17 | Fisker | they implemented it |
| 14:52.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Mihau (~asmith@69.73.16.202) |
| 14:52.51 | Thrae | Fisker: No, they specifically said in http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/13817252583/is-ninjalooting-bannable/ that there IS an appeal process. |
| 14:52.51 | Fisker | and with the policy it's absolutely no anarchy |
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| 14:53.09 | Thrae | Fisker: Even with the Master Looter-without-rules. |
| 14:53.23 | Fisker | i'm not sure what you're trying to tell me? |
| 14:53.32 | Fisker | That the Master Looter can contest the decision or what? |
| 14:53.37 | Fisker | He did that, and it was denied |
| 14:54.10 | Thrae | Fisker: 10:50 < Thrae> Fisker: What good is a policy that supports total anarchy without any appeal process? 10:50 < Fisker> Ask Blizzard Thrae 10:51 < Fisker> they implemented it <-- yet their current policy states you DO have an appeal process |
| 14:54.45 | Fisker | ugh i misread it :P |
| 14:54.48 | Ithato | is it still considered "hacky" to mess with the right-click player context menus for the chat windows? |
| 14:55.05 | Fisker | thought you were talking about Master Looter as a method |
| 14:55.08 | Fisker | not the policy |
| 14:55.23 | foxlit | Ithato: was it ever? |
| 14:55.24 | Thrae | Ithato: As long as you hook the right things I don't see how that's "hacky", unless you're trying to do something that can be done another way that doesn't need hooks |
| 14:55.35 | mikma | haste: http://izismile.com/img/img2/20091203/the_women_of_wtf_72.jpg |
| 14:55.59 | Ithato | a cursory search on the forums gave me a thread that complained of the potential for taint and such, but i didn't pay attention to the date of the thread |
| 14:56.12 | foxlit | If you don't taint it, someone else will. |
| 14:56.36 | foxlit | Think people have universally accepted that the "Set Focus" menu option does nothing but complain at you. |
| 14:56.36 | Ithato | foxlit, Thrae: thanks |
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| 15:03.24 | *** join/#wowuidev mojosdojo (~mojosdojo@p4FEFE682.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:06.20 | malreth | TAD is the best website ever: http://tinyartdirector.blogspot.com/2010/06/secrets-of-tooth-fairy-revealed.html |
| 15:15.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (~Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 15:16.35 | Ithato | is there any reasonable way to have a library be embeddable whilst keeping its own savedvars? or is that just a bad idea to begin with? |
| 15:17.08 | foxlit | libraries should not have saved vars. |
| 15:17.34 | Ithato | i figured that was the common mentality |
| 15:18.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (kalroth@3e6bab1b.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 15:19.00 | malreth | Again, random out of the blue comment from my office coworker to me: "Yes, they have the talent but they don't have the coaching." Me: "Huh?" |
| 15:20.46 | Ithato | friends list is capped at 100, yes? |
| 15:22.40 | Adys | http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2010/06/woman-arms-displays-incredible-feet-dexterity/ |
| 15:22.57 | *** join/#wowuidev lehigreck (~lehigreck@ip-80-236-246-185.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 15:23.55 | Kaso | malreth: sure he isnt using a phone with a bluetooth headset, thats terribly embarrassing mistake to make ;p |
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| 15:24.51 | malreth | no, he had just gotten off of the phone (talking to a customer about accounts on a file server) and was indeed talking to me |
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| 15:25.56 | malreth | the customer's department has nothing to do with sports, or talent, or coaching... or the US World Cup team which is what he was actually talking about |
| 15:28.13 | Kaso | have you identified who 'they' are yet? |
| 15:30.20 | malreth | Kaso: the US World Cup team. |
| 15:30.39 | Kaso | oh sorry didnt see US there |
| 15:31.57 | malreth | I've pretty much stopped trying to figure out what he ever talks about and I mostly respond with, "what the hell are you talking about?" |
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| 15:32.26 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
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| 16:02.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Cide@hus110a.bobbnet.com) |
| 16:02.04 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
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| 16:06.38 | Cide | anyone experienced seemingly infinite redirect loops on google groups lately? |
| 16:07.36 | eidolarr | Cide: /away |
| 16:07.38 | eidolarr | err |
| 16:07.45 | eidolarr | Cide: there deosn't seem to be a solution |
| 16:07.54 | Cide | so I take that as a yes |
| 16:07.56 | eidolarr | it's happening on all the google services occasionally, just wait it out |
| 16:08.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (~Vilkku@86-60-145-155-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi) |
| 16:08.08 | eidolarr | yeah happens to my gmail sometimes, total bitch |
| 16:08.13 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (~Miranda@200.41.202.84.customer.cdi.no) |
| 16:10.48 | foxlit | http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/loadingreadyrun/1834-Conans-Witnesses |
| 16:13.50 | foxlit | awesome stuff, really. |
| 16:16.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Vangual (~bah@pdpc/supporter/active/vangual) |
| 16:24.06 | Fisker | can i disagree foxlit ? |
| 16:24.16 | *** join/#wowuidev EthanCentaurai (~ethan@78.148.62.149) |
| 16:27.09 | Fisker | slaps foxlit around a bit with a large trout |
| 16:27.23 | foxlit | No, Fisker. But you may agree. |
| 16:27.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@pool025.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
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| 16:28.12 | Fisker | oh ok |
| 16:28.14 | Fisker | then i agree |
| 16:28.57 | amro | does anyone here use googletest? |
| 16:30.25 | Kalroth | test amros goggles |
| 16:31.16 | amro | points a laser at Kalroth's eyes |
| 16:31.20 | amro | do they work? |
| 16:31.41 | Kalroth | I don't know I can't see anything |
| 16:31.42 | amro | oops, I accidentally hit Elkano and Kaso |
| 16:38.09 | Fisker | what is googletest? |
| 16:39.57 | foxlit | Tests whether you're wearing goggles. |
| 16:40.03 | foxlit | If you aren't, you've failed. |
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| 16:49.13 | Jamash | the googles, they do nothing |
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| 16:51.20 | amro | http://code.google.com/p/googletest/ |
| 16:51.41 | amro | it's great, but ASSERT_NO_THROW is pissing me off. it doesn't tell you what exception was thrown if it fails |
| 16:52.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Thrae (~ircuser@generalmx-1-pt.tunnel.tserv13.ash1.ipv6.he.net) |
| 16:52.55 | Fisker | slaps amro around a bit with a large trout |
| 16:52.57 | Fisker | sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss |
| 16:53.25 | *** join/#wowuidev john-doe2 (~derp@200-181-34-32.bsace704.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) |
| 16:53.28 | john-doe2 | hi |
| 16:55.19 | Jamash | hi |
| 16:56.24 | Fisker | hi |
| 16:57.19 | Kalroth | hi |
| 16:57.47 | john-doe2 | hi there |
| 16:57.52 | john-doe2 | i was wondering |
| 16:57.57 | john-doe2 | well, actually, i was looking, |
| 16:58.15 | john-doe2 | looking for an in-game wow addon that would let me connect to irc |
| 16:58.27 | Jamash | can't be done, wow has a sandbox with no internet connectivity |
| 16:58.31 | nevcairiel | unpossible, forget it |
| 16:58.44 | john-doe2 | :[ |
| 16:58.48 | john-doe2 | that's a pity |
| 16:58.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Bartlomehus (~Michel@wetering.xs4all.nl) |
| 16:59.58 | Jamash | crap I didn't upload the new revision like I said I would |
| 17:01.01 | john-doe2 | peace. |
| 17:03.33 | Fierceflame | for the "ADDON_LOADED" event, what is considered the addon name? The title of the toc file? the ##title: in the toc file? or soemthign else? And do color codes have to be entered in this? |
| 17:03.49 | nevcairiel | the folder name |
| 17:04.05 | *** join/#wowuidev SeanK (~SeanK@pool-98-117-120-73.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 17:04.09 | nevcairiel | or the name of the .toc file without the .toc, which should really be the same |
| 17:04.19 | Fierceflame | Kay thanks |
| 17:07.09 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI|work (~KarlKFI|w@adcom005v.adcom.uci.edu) |
| 17:08.40 | airtonix | blows a Vuvuzela in fiskers face |
| 17:08.53 | airtonix | BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ |
| 17:12.16 | Jamash | invents the Alezuvuv |
| 17:12.27 | Jamash | ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZB |
| 17:13.02 | Adys | patents the Zuvelazu |
| 17:13.21 | Adys | ZZZBZZZZZZZZZZBBZZZZZZZZZBZZZZBZBZZZZZBBBZZZZZZBBBBBBZZZZZZZZZZZZZBBZZBBBBBBBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZBBBBZZZZZZBZZBBZZZZZZZZZZ |
| 17:14.28 | malreth | this is indeed a weird channel |
| 17:14.39 | Jamash | we channel weirdness |
| 17:15.06 | Adys | And chew bubble gum |
| 17:15.10 | malreth | ~seen Lunessa |
| 17:15.11 | purl | lunessa <~Lunessa@WoWUIDev/Lunessa> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowuidev, 2d 19h 35m 41s ago, saying: 'When you have antenna questions, go to the antenna guys.'. |
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| 17:29.24 | Jamash | heeeeey adys, your price tooltips are still messed upppppp |
| 17:29.39 | Adys | yeah i cant push the fix right now |
| 17:29.45 | Jamash | ok |
| 17:29.48 | Adys | its there though |
| 17:29.49 | *** part/#wowuidev Warloco (~theunknow@abarelds.xs4all.nl) |
| 17:31.07 | Jamash | hmm, work in 30 min |
| 17:31.13 | Jamash | should eat lunch and get dressed |
| 17:31.30 | Fisker | http://i.imgur.com/5DHiJ.png <-yeah |
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| 17:33.36 | Jamash | I don't need more games |
| 17:33.38 | Jamash | I have enough |
| 17:34.20 | Jamash | I've got like eight games I haven't finished |
| 17:34.28 | Jamash | and yet all I play is wow >.> |
| 17:40.37 | foxlit | Only 6 runs left to get the pet :( |
| 17:42.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Mihau (~asmith@adsl-070-154-141-174.sip.bna.bellsouth.net) |
| 17:42.07 | foxlit | That is to say, until next year. |
| 17:42.14 | nevcairiel | I didnt even run once |
| 17:42.15 | nevcairiel | beat that |
| 17:42.47 | foxlit | I think that actually makes you have a higher probability of still getting the pet if you start now :) |
| 17:43.05 | nevcairiel | i cba to play wow |
| 17:43.37 | foxlit | lovely. |
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| 17:47.50 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 17:48.03 | malreth | pours tea for Cairenn |
| 17:48.44 | Cairenn | hi malreth |
| 17:48.52 | malreth | i chopped off all my hair |
| 17:48.54 | airtonix | hi fisker |
| 17:49.02 | Thunder_Child | with a cleaver? |
| 17:49.05 | malreth | damn near |
| 17:49.41 | malreth | over the weekend, a friend said i should get a buzz cut |
| 17:50.36 | malreth | bzzzzzzt... http://twitpic.com/20res1 |
| 17:50.59 | dolby | what if it doesnt grow back!?!? |
| 17:51.08 | malreth | dolby: INORITE! |
| 17:51.32 | malreth | brb... i hear tales of cake being provided... |
| 17:53.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Duman- (~duman@ka.boom.net) |
| 17:53.58 | malreth | the cake was not a lie and it was quite delicious and moist |
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| 18:04.13 | Cairenn | I can't frigging win for losing! Last week I replaced my router, my modem, today I had the tech in here, he fixed my signal strength .... and then I get a net split once I'm finally back on |
| 18:04.13 | Cairenn | geez |
| 18:04.13 | Cairenn | starting to think someone doesn't want me on-line any more! |
| 18:04.14 | nevcairiel | netsplit doesnt take you offline |
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| 18:04.14 | nevcairiel | it just limits your audience |
| 18:04.14 | Cairenn | nevcairiel: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/facetious |
| 18:04.14 | Cairenn | ;) |
| 18:04.15 | durcyn | http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pedant |
| 18:04.15 | Cairenn | durcyn: :`( |
| 18:04.15 | nevcairiel | all those funny sounding words that i dont even know, you can keep them! |
| 18:04.15 | durcyn | Cairenn: i meant nev! |
| 18:04.49 | Fisker | Fisker and the story of the Diarrhea blitz |
| 18:04.49 | Cairenn | durcyn: oh, okay then! :) ;) |
| 18:04.49 | Fisker | interested? |
| 18:04.49 | Cairenn | goes back offline |
| 18:04.49 | Fisker | you don't want to read my story? :( |
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| 18:11.46 | *** topic/#wowuidev is http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ || 3.3.x ToC: 30300 || #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting || 3.3.5 Patch Notes are up: http://cot.ag/aCj0Wy || Inspect Throttling coming: http://cot.ag/cxdTvX || Are you going to BlizzCon (Oct 22 & 23)? http://tinyurl.com/22kjfxu || When in doubt, C4 |
| 18:11.52 | airtonix | <LOUD BREATHING> |
| 18:12.05 | malreth | purl, wb |
| 18:12.06 | purl | thx |
| 18:12.14 | Fisker | <loud farts> |
| 18:12.26 | airtonix | did someone cough ? |
| 18:12.39 | mikma_ | http://mikma.eu/wow/WoWScrnShot_062810_203704.jpg <- rogue addon for myself <3 |
| 18:13.37 | amro | malreth: sounds like you're going to snap instead\ |
| 18:13.55 | malreth | i refuse to snap |
| 18:13.57 | Fisker | what if i want it? |
| 18:14.11 | malreth | Fisker: then you must take it |
| 18:14.37 | malreth | steals mikma_'s addon and gives it to Fisker |
| 18:14.41 | Fisker | i will take you malreth |
| 18:14.48 | malreth | there... it has become yours by way of my actions |
| 18:16.17 | amro | mikma_: I like what you did with the unit frames |
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| 18:20.30 | Shirik_ | I love multiple inheritance |
| 18:20.50 | Shirik_ | http://codepad.org/gKF3BpJw vs http://codepad.org/1VGl6eHr is very fun behavior |
| 18:20.55 | Shirik_ | @ cogwheel |
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| 18:23.02 | eidolarr | I've been reading Effective Java, and it points out a lot of glaring problems with Java's inheritance mechanism, especially wrt encapsulation and comparators |
| 18:23.19 | eidolarr | does C++ have the same philosophical issues? i would guess so since C++ seems morally bankrupt |
| 18:23.36 | NightHawkTheSane | how is a language morally anything? |
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| 18:24.32 | eidolarr | alright you caught me C++ is not actually a morally sentient entity |
| 18:24.46 | eidolarr | i mean that C++ seems to worry less about consistency and philosophy |
| 18:24.56 | Shirik_ | There is a very good reason this happens btw |
| 18:25.02 | Shirik_ | and is the #1 rule why void* is evil in C++ |
| 18:25.05 | Shirik_ | moreso than in C |
| 18:25.30 | Shirik_ | it actually WASN'T happening to me and I was like "ok this shouldn't be working" so I finally found out what it was |
| 18:26.10 | Shirik_ | the key difference between Java and C++ is how they handle the type system |
| 18:26.19 | Shirik_ | Java does everything at runtime |
| 18:26.23 | Shirik_ | C++ tries to do a lot at compile time |
| 18:26.39 | eidolarr | I thought Java just did generics at runtime |
| 18:26.48 | Shirik_ | java doesn't have generics at all |
| 18:26.52 | Shirik_ | it has a hack |
| 18:27.10 | nevcairiel | tbh, templates are not generics either |
| 18:27.11 | Fisker | hey Shirik |
| 18:27.17 | Shirik_ | its "generics" just get compiled down to "something that is guaranteed not to throw a InvalidCastException" |
| 18:27.27 | eidolarr | the hack seems reasonably effective in the common case (though disgusting in the uncommon) |
| 18:27.32 | Fisker | do you want to hear about my explosive diarrhea? |
| 18:27.37 | Shirik_ | no that's ok |
| 18:27.46 | malreth | looks at Obj-C waving in the corner saying, "hey guys! how's it goin'?" |
| 18:27.48 | Shirik_ | nevcairiel: That's why they're templates and not generics :) |
| 18:28.00 | Shirik_ | anyway eidolarr in case you're curious |
| 18:28.05 | nevcairiel | the java generics work in most cases |
| 18:28.23 | nevcairiel | i encountered some cases where its annoying, and you just trust in the objects being of the right type |
| 18:28.29 | Shirik_ | the reason the latter case crashes here is because C++ does something very special when I don't use a void* |
| 18:28.45 | eidolarr | im sorry which is the right one |
| 18:28.57 | eidolarr | the correct on e |
| 18:28.58 | Shirik_ | (void*)&foo != (void*)(IBase*)&foo |
| 18:29.35 | Shirik_ | C++ moves the pointer up a little bit |
| 18:29.49 | eidolarr | "up"? |
| 18:30.03 | nevcairiel | crazy unpredicatble language |
| 18:30.06 | eidolarr | so when it reads a class, it reads it with some offset? |
| 18:30.08 | Shirik_ | it's 100% predictable |
| 18:30.09 | eidolarr | er reads an object |
| 18:30.15 | Shirik_ | you just need to know why it happens |
| 18:30.21 | mikma_ | so, i decided to get burned once again in the sun |
| 18:30.26 | Shirik_ | this is the kind of stuff that I talk about when I say "most C++ programmers don't actually know C++" |
| 18:30.32 | Shirik_ | these are details that are very important to understand |
| 18:30.42 | nevcairiel | The universe is predictable, if you know every rule and association |
| 18:30.46 | nevcairiel | that doesnt mean anyone can predict it |
| 18:30.48 | Shirik_ | so consider this, eidolarr |
| 18:30.56 | Fisker | oh sweet |
| 18:31.04 | Fisker | android can play mario has a live wallpaper |
| 18:31.07 | Fisker | take that iPhone |
| 18:31.07 | Shirik_ | every member in an object is located at an offset from the beginning of the class, right? |
| 18:31.14 | Fisker | TAKE THAT |
| 18:31.16 | foxlit | heh, sweet choir section in icecrown music. |
| 18:31.19 | amro | Shirik_: that bit me in the ass once when I was using pointers as udata |
| 18:31.20 | eidolarr | hopefully |
| 18:31.33 | Shirik_ | the reason this works is because it's always the same offset |
| 18:31.38 | Shirik_ | just the base pointer is necessary for the object |
| 18:32.01 | Shirik_ | however if you inherit from two classes, they can't be placed on top of each other obviously |
| 18:32.11 | Shirik_ | so it puts them next to each other |
| 18:32.21 | nevcairiel | multiple inheritance is a good recipe for headache anyway |
| 18:32.31 | Shirik_ | then when you cast to that type, it moves the pointer to where that particular base starts |
| 18:32.47 | Shirik_ | that way it still acts like any other instance of that type |
| 18:33.13 | Shirik_ | but when you go through void* that movement doesn't happen |
| 18:33.13 | nevcairiel | I figured it would need to do something like that, never bothered about implementationm details |
| 18:34.16 | eidolarr | hmmm |
| 18:34.25 | eidolarr | that sounds like an argument against multiple inheritance |
| 18:34.34 | amro | no, it's an argument against void* |
| 18:34.47 | amro | you should never use it anyway |
| 18:34.48 | nevcairiel | multiple inheritance has as much benefits as it causes headaches |
| 18:35.04 | amro | as long as you keep it simple, it's fine |
| 18:35.06 | nevcairiel | use it carefully :) |
| 18:35.13 | eidolarr | does C++ have any equivalent of interfaces? |
| 18:35.16 | foxlit | multiple inheritance means you aren't using Java. Why aren't you using Java? |
| 18:35.26 | amro | eidolarr: not exactly, but you can use an abstract base class |
| 18:35.27 | nevcairiel | with multiple inheritance, you dont have interfaces |
| 18:35.37 | nevcairiel | there is no point |
| 18:35.47 | Shirik_ | Exactly |
| 18:35.53 | Shirik_ | this isn't a problem at all until you use void* |
| 18:36.00 | eidolarr | if you had the choice - not that you do - would you use multiple inheritence over interfaces and composition? |
| 18:36.14 | Shirik_ | I do composition WITH multiple inheritance |
| 18:36.19 | Shirik_ | private inheritance == composition |
| 18:36.25 | nevcairiel | Both have their advantages |
| 18:36.37 | eidolarr | I mean instead of extending C, keep a member instance of C |
| 18:36.42 | eidolarr | where C is a class |
| 18:36.47 | nevcairiel | but i really didnt encounter much cases where i would've said "multiple inheritance would be nice now" |
| 18:37.04 | nevcairiel | codes java on his day job |
| 18:37.49 | eidolarr | idk this seems like an unexpected violation of the principles behind C casting, even if it works |
| 18:38.06 | nevcairiel | C++ casting is weird and complicated anyway |
| 18:38.47 | foxlit | And a trumpet section |
| 18:38.54 | foxlit | I wonder if it's random, or based on location |
| 18:39.11 | eidolarr | what would happen if you had said (Ibase *)(foo) ? |
| 18:39.33 | eidolarr | or is that illegal? |
| 18:39.51 | eidolarr | and somewhat related: has anyone read Effective C++? |
| 18:39.51 | Torhal | I thought C-style casts in C++ were highly discouraged. |
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| 18:40.21 | Mikk | depends who you ask |
| 18:40.30 | eidolarr | maybe but what would happen |
| 18:40.32 | Mikk | some people think goto is hellspawn also |
| 18:40.39 | nevcairiel | it is |
| 18:40.43 | Mikk | there ya gio |
| 18:40.48 | eidolarr | goto is occasionally fun |
| 18:40.54 | amro | yes, as in goto hell |
| 18:41.04 | nevcairiel | but then a switch is just a goto with makeup |
| 18:41.15 | Mikk | goto down to cleanup code is win |
| 18:41.15 | eidolarr | naw |
| 18:41.18 | eidolarr | not really |
| 18:41.24 | amro | except it's a hundred times more maintainable |
| 18:41.26 | eidolarr | yeah bailout gotos are excellent |
| 18:41.27 | nevcairiel | Mikk: as long as you dont goto upwards |
| 18:41.34 | Mikk | idd goto upwards can cause ugly |
| 18:41.50 | eidolarr | i haven't found a really consistent and clean usage beyond cleanup |
| 18:41.56 | Kalroth | Assembly got JMP, I guess it sucks too! |
| 18:42.07 | amro | and cleanup can usually be taken care of with proper RIAA |
| 18:42.14 | Mikk | RIAA? |
| 18:42.16 | nevcairiel | i occasionally used gotos for error handling to jump to the clean up point, it makes code easier. But some people really abuse goto, so the general rule is: don't |
| 18:42.16 | amro | er |
| 18:42.18 | amro | omg |
| 18:42.20 | amro | shoot me |
| 18:42.23 | amro | RAII |
| 18:42.24 | Shirik_ | eidolarr: |
| 18:42.26 | Shirik_ | this is how it works |
| 18:42.27 | Shirik_ | et all |
| 18:42.35 | Shirik_ | http://codepad.org/RUYkKe9z |
| 18:42.36 | Shirik_ | notice the last pointer |
| 18:42.38 | Shirik_ | it's not the same address |
| 18:42.39 | amro | I was laughing at someone for making that typo a few days ago |
| 18:42.40 | Shirik_ | it got moved up |
| 18:43.12 | Shirik_ | also |
| 18:43.13 | eidolarr | in test(IBase *foo) or test(void *foo) |
| 18:43.15 | Mikk | amro: yeah but you kind of want stack unwind for that |
| 18:43.17 | Shirik_ | (combined.*&Foo::a) is awesome code |
| 18:43.21 | Shirik_ | fyi |
| 18:43.49 | eidolarr | oh woops missed the new link |
| 18:44.06 | Shirik_ | (void*)(&(bar.*&Bar::b) - reinterpret_cast<int*>(&bar)) |
| 18:44.12 | Shirik_ | that is surely one of the more epic lines I've written in a while |
| 18:44.41 | nevcairiel | When you need to use reinterpret cast, you're writing code that you wont understand in a month anymore |
| 18:44.59 | amro | nevcairiel: not necessarily |
| 18:45.39 | cogwheel | nevcairiel: it's more understandable than the (very common) C equivalent... |
| 18:45.43 | cogwheel | (especially to grep) |
| 18:45.46 | Shirik_ | this was just to get to the implementation details |
| 18:45.50 | Shirik_ | I would never write that in real code |
| 18:45.55 | eidolarr | you know how dense switch statements are backed by jump tables? are jump tables used for 'goto'? |
| 18:45.57 | Shirik_ | I was just forcing it to show pointers you shouldn't normally have to worry about |
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| 18:47.24 | eidolarr | cogwheel: what equivalent are you talking about? |
| 18:47.43 | eidolarr | Shirik_: I can't read this at all, what are the first 2 lines, the values? |
| 18:48.00 | Shirik_ | you talking about http://codepad.org/RUYkKe9z ? |
| 18:48.23 | Shirik_ | ignore the code for the most part |
| 18:48.26 | Shirik_ | it's mostly unreadable |
| 18:48.29 | Shirik_ | the important part is the output |
| 18:48.38 | Shirik_ | the first four lines are offsets |
| 18:48.40 | nevcairiel | shirik should write perl |
| 18:48.43 | nevcairiel | he has a hand for that |
| 18:48.43 | mikma | amro: i also like what i have done with the unit frames |
| 18:49.01 | Shirik_ | so if it wants to read Foo::a, it goes into offset 0 beyond the Foo base pointer |
| 18:49.10 | eidolarr | Shirik_: ah ok |
| 18:49.14 | Shirik_ | but Foo::a and Bar::b overlap |
| 18:49.21 | Mikk | HAHAHAHA from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_Acquisition_Is_Initialization: "C requires significant administrative code since it doesn't support exceptions, try-finally blocks, or RAII at all. A recommended approach[3] is to separate releasing of resources at the end of the function and jump there with gotos in the case of error. This way the cleanup code need not be duplicated." |
| 18:49.24 | Shirik_ | so in Combined, it puts them next to each other instead |
| 18:49.42 | Shirik_ | as a result, when you cast to Bar, the pointer moves |
| 18:49.47 | Shirik_ | as you can see in the latter 3 lines |
| 18:49.52 | Shirik_ | all are the address of the Combined object |
| 18:49.57 | Shirik_ | first a Combined*, then a Foo*, then a Bar* |
| 18:50.03 | eidolarr | that is the kind of gotcha that would kill me |
| 18:50.22 | Shirik_ | and you'll notice &Combined::Bar + &Bar::b still comes out to where Combined::b is |
| 18:50.25 | nevcairiel | Mikk: thats the only usage of goto that i would personally permit in my code :d |
| 18:50.25 | Shirik_ | that's how itw orks |
| 18:50.50 | Mikk | nevcairiel: well yeah |
| 18:50.55 | Mikk | it's the only one i'm advocating |
| 18:51.16 | eidolarr | I heard once that 'new' is not thread safe (the allocation, I guess). how do you fix that? |
| 18:51.35 | Mikk | eh? |
| 18:52.10 | Shirik_ | the C++ standard mentions nothing about thread safety |
| 18:52.15 | Shirik_ | so theoretically it might not be thread safe |
| 18:52.15 | Mikk | well "new" is certainly not an atomic operation |
| 18:52.22 | Mikk | since it runs constructors and stuff |
| 18:52.35 | Mikk | and yeah if it calls an underlying malloc that isnt thread safe... ugly happens |
| 18:52.52 | Mikk | but there's nothing inherently un-threadsafe about "new" in and of itself |
| 18:53.04 | eidolarr | this is where I got it from: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~410/p0/proj0.html |
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| 18:53.06 | cogwheel | 11:47 < eidolarr> cogwheel: what equivalent are you talking about? |
| 18:53.10 | Shirik__ | as I was saying |
| 18:53.14 | cogwheel | pretty much every form of runtime binding in C |
| 18:53.18 | Shirik__ | but pretty much everyone implements 'new' with thread-specific storage |
| 18:53.24 | Shirik__ | so it's irrelevant |
| 18:53.29 | Mikk | nodnods |
| 18:53.30 | eidolarr | "People have asked about using C++ in this class. Writing your kernels in C++ is probably much harder than you think, since you would need to begin by implementing your own thread-safe (or, at least, interrupt-aware) versions of new and delete. In addition, you would probably find yourself implementing other pieces of C++ runtime code; this could turn into quite a hobby. " |
| 18:53.48 | malreth | Shirik for President! |
| 18:54.20 | Shirik__ | everyone ignores the fact that the standard doesn't necessarily say that it's thread safe |
| 18:54.21 | Shirik__ | and just assumes it is :) |
| 18:54.25 | cogwheel | eidolarr: C casts just use (type)var syntax. In many cases it's the equivalent of reinterpret_cast<type>(var) |
| 18:54.45 | Shirik__ | I would venture to say it's closed to static_cast |
| 18:54.46 | cogwheel | the latter can be easily searched for |
| 18:54.54 | Shirik__ | closer* |
| 18:54.57 | nevcairiel | I remember that from my real-time coding in C, we couldn't even use default malloc |
| 18:55.11 | eidolarr | why not? |
| 18:55.12 | nevcairiel | but the runtime we used had its own memory allocator |
| 18:55.59 | durcyn | godamnit apple, why would you ship a server with two internal drives, but -not- mirror them by default? |
| 18:56.15 | Shirik__ | any RTOS that doesn't have a thread-safe malloc/new does not deserve to be called an RTOS |
| 18:56.27 | Fisker | hey Shirik |
| 18:56.52 | foxlit | I was under the impression that malloc isn't necessarily a direct kernel call. |
| 18:56.55 | nevcairiel | We used MicroC/OS-II i believe |
| 18:57.02 | nevcairiel | but default malloc has locking issues |
| 18:57.08 | foxlit | So it might be that your c library has a say in whether it's thread-safe or not. |
| 18:57.14 | Shirik__ | fair enough |
| 18:58.02 | malreth | durcyn: because some server admins might not want the drives mirrored |
| 18:59.15 | Mikk | foxlit: you can be fairly certain that it isn't |
| 18:59.50 | nevcairiel | Trying to reserve overlapping parts of heapspace in different threads = probably going to be fun |
| 19:00.27 | durcyn | malreth: and some might do. hence, lengthy reinstalls. blah. |
| 19:01.02 | malreth | i don't think i've ever had a server that i didn't have to reinstall the OS for some particular reason |
| 19:01.23 | malreth | actually, it's pretty much always w.r.t. RAID configuration |
| 19:01.23 | nevcairiel | I dont think i've ever had a server where i would want to keep the pre-installed OS |
| 19:01.31 | nevcairiel | or any system for that matter |
| 19:02.16 | malreth | with that said, i seem to recall there's a way to configure software RAID1 without having to reformat... lemme look that up |
| 19:02.27 | durcyn | nah, not without imaging. |
| 19:02.42 | durcyn | nevcairiel: a default install of osx is the same as you get from a DVD, /shrug |
| 19:03.15 | nevcairiel | I wouldnt want to keep osx =) |
| 19:03.52 | malreth | nevcairiel: hater! |
| 19:04.01 | durcyn | well, unfortunately the linux kernel doesn't have SATA/libata support for the MCP89 in the new mini boards yet |
| 19:04.02 | nevcairiel | indeed |
| 19:04.22 | durcyn | so i'm stuck with several more osx systems than i'd planned for |
| 19:04.27 | nevcairiel | not ahci compatible? |
| 19:04.35 | nevcairiel | also, why even get apple servers? |
| 19:04.39 | durcyn | nvidia, standards compliant? |
| 19:04.49 | Fisker | why so QQ durcyn ? |
| 19:05.23 | durcyn | every time Fisker types, i hear vuvuzelas |
| 19:05.34 | nevcairiel | BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ |
| 19:06.18 | Fisker | actually durcyn |
| 19:06.20 | Fisker | that's me farting |
| 19:06.31 | Cairenn | ping? |
| 19:06.31 | harl|away | PONG! |
| 19:06.57 | malreth | durcyn: http://krypted.com/mac-os-x/enabling-raid-mirrors-redux/ |
| 19:07.06 | durcyn | nevcairiel: the form factor and power consumption are pretty swell, since you asked |
| 19:07.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Fierceflame (~timo.meij@ip231-37-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 19:07.26 | durcyn | malreth: fuck, i'm already halfway through the install |
| 19:07.52 | eidolarr | a kernel-mode userspace malloc would be a nightmare |
| 19:07.54 | malreth | essentially, you tell the drive it's a RAID mirror without a mirror, add the second drive to the set, and tell it to rebuild |
| 19:08.22 | durcyn | nevcairiel: also, http://www.macminicolo.net/ |
| 19:08.53 | malreth | but still, you're probably better off reinstalling from scratch. you're thumbing your nose at the Gods when you resort to hackery like that |
| 19:09.02 | nevcairiel | whats the point in small servers, need space for harddrives |
| 19:09.22 | nevcairiel | but at least that colo offer is pretty cheap |
| 19:09.41 | malreth | nevcairiel: DAS or SAN... well, you're probably not using SAN with minis |
| 19:10.14 | durcyn | i don't use them for file servers, everything else is fair game though |
| 19:10.54 | durcyn | no point in a 1U beast pulling 500W when you can get the same storage and good-enough CPU at 50W |
| 19:11.10 | nevcairiel | we used to have a sponsor that gave us those shuttle cubes as servers for our lan partys |
| 19:11.17 | nevcairiel | was kinda nice looking a wall of 50 of these things =P |
| 19:11.29 | nevcairiel | but they pump out so much heat |
| 19:13.27 | nevcairiel | http://www.enlarged.de/ext_inc/pics/enlarged_v_aufbau/fullsize/enlarged_v_aufbau117.jpg |
| 19:13.32 | nevcairiel | thats a nice picture of em :P |
| 19:18.19 | Fisker | so many wipes nevcairiel |
| 19:25.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Kivnel (~lenvik@23.213.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 19:32.04 | *** join/#wowuidev lehigreck1 (~lehigreck@ip-80-236-242-94.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 19:34.21 | Fisker | this shit is bananas nevcairiel |
| 19:35.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Kivnel (~lenvik@23.213.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 19:35.07 | malreth | B-A-N-A-N-A-S |
| 19:35.45 | Fisker | no |
| 19:36.07 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~alestane@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 19:36.07 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 19:37.16 | malreth | transforms Fisker into Gwen Stefani |
| 19:37.45 | cogwheel | Fisker heads Fisker heads rolly polly Fisker heads |
| 19:41.14 | mikma | laughs at Fiskwen Stefanier |
| 19:42.08 | *** join/#wowuidev daev (~bleh@pool-72-86-116-158.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
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| 19:43.23 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower|Work] by ChanServ |
| 19:43.55 | Torhal | cogwheel: If you eat them up, I'll be disappointed. |
| 19:49.35 | Fisker | icrai |
| 19:49.45 | Fisker | used 30 heroic attempts |
| 19:49.51 | Fisker | err |
| 19:49.54 | Fisker | 22 |
| 19:51.11 | Fisker | 20 of them on sindragosa i believe |
| 19:51.12 | Fisker | ;_; |
| 19:53.23 | mikma | http://apina.biz/31746.jpg |
| 19:54.12 | nevcairiel | it works o.o |
| 19:54.34 | nevcairiel | stupid line breaks |
| 19:54.54 | mikma | hehe |
| 19:54.57 | Zyn | what the the fuck |
| 19:55.15 | nevcairiel | anyone happen to know a relatively cheap SAS or SATA 4 or 8 port controller, no raid required? |
| 19:58.05 | nevcairiel | intel has a really cheap one, but not sure if one can trust it to perform |
| 19:58.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Mihau_ (~asmith@69.73.16.202) |
| 20:02.25 | Fisker | omg |
| 20:02.26 | Fisker | OMG |
| 20:02.27 | Fisker | GMO |
| 20:02.28 | Fisker | we did it |
| 20:03.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@dsl4E5C00A9.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 20:05.16 | alestane | Congrats? |
| 20:07.27 | Zyn | no you didnt |
| 20:07.29 | Zyn | too bad |
| 20:07.59 | Zyn | Fisker, YOU LOSE, GOOD DAY SIR |
| 20:08.14 | Fisker | great |
| 20:08.19 | Fisker | finally a pala token drops |
| 20:08.27 | Fisker | and they almost never drop |
| 20:08.33 | Fisker | and they gave it to the wrong guy |
| 20:08.38 | Fisker | and he already turned it in |
| 20:08.39 | Fisker | ;_; |
| 20:08.50 | NightHawkTheSane | the wrong guy being not you? |
| 20:09.05 | Fisker | yep |
| 20:10.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 20:11.16 | alestane | ~botmail for Lunessa: http://textsfromlastnight.com/Text-Replies-18111.html |
| 20:11.19 | *** join/#wowuidev mitchnull (~mitchnull@catv3EC944A1.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 20:11.31 | Fisker | ~botmail for alestane: ilu |
| 20:12.00 | alestane | I don't think purl takes requests for people who are online. |
| 20:12.07 | Fisker | he did |
| 20:12.08 | Fisker | owne |
| 20:12.09 | Fisker | d |
| 20:12.55 | alestane | So maybe she'll notify me the next time I log on, like a hungover reminder of all those mistakes you made last night. |
| 20:13.26 | Fisker | she? |
| 20:13.27 | Fisker | he! |
| 20:13.36 | malreth | purl, gender |
| 20:13.37 | purl | I'm sexless |
| 20:13.51 | alestane | purl's a girl, just ask Peppy. |
| 20:13.58 | alestane | I figure she knows. |
| 20:14.11 | malreth | sexless is essentially the same thing as being a girl |
| 20:14.25 | sylvanaar_atwork | tell purl that |
| 20:15.02 | sylvanaar_atwork | someone has been taking biology |
| 20:15.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (~dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 20:15.42 | NightHawkTheSane | i dunno, maybe malreth is being particularly mysogenistic, and saying purl's a frigid bitch? |
| 20:15.55 | sylvanaar_atwork | female is the default gender |
| 20:16.10 | NightHawkTheSane | yes, i'm aware. ;) |
| 20:16.12 | sylvanaar_atwork | could go either way |
| 20:16.21 | malreth | sylvanaar: correct... it's men who were the mistake |
| 20:16.33 | malreth | that's why i've dedicated my life to eradicate them |
| 20:16.41 | malreth | the women can thank me later |
| 20:16.46 | malreth | sexily... |
| 20:18.19 | alestane | Except you'll have been eradicated, yes? |
| 20:18.56 | NightHawkTheSane | logically he would have to eradicate himself, yes |
| 20:19.08 | malreth | ~gender malreth |
| 20:19.09 | purl | I heard malreth is gay. |
| 20:19.12 | malreth | LOL |
| 20:19.19 | NightHawkTheSane | heh |
| 20:19.27 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 20:19.42 | NightHawkTheSane | i wasn't aware gay was a gender |
| 20:20.37 | *** join/#wowuidev CodeRedLin (~grivell@c-68-45-212-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 20:20.41 | Thunder_Child | "the more you know" |
| 20:20.56 | Thunder_Child | ===========* |
| 20:21.17 | alestane | "...and knowing is half the battle." |
| 20:21.36 | Thunder_Child | the other half is killing everyone |
| 20:21.49 | NightHawkTheSane | i thought the other half was missing with your red and blue lasers |
| 20:22.06 | Mikk | ~gender Mikk |
| 20:22.07 | purl | I heard Mikk is pregnant. |
| 20:22.10 | Mikk | lmao |
| 20:22.17 | Fisker | hello NightHawkTheSane |
| 20:22.22 | *** part/#wowuidev mitchnull (~mitchnull@catv3EC944A1.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 20:22.46 | Thunder_Child | ~literal CMD: gender (.?*) |
| 20:22.58 | Thunder_Child | ~literal CMD: gender (.*?) |
| 20:22.58 | purl | "cmd: gender (.*?)" is "($1): <reply> I heard $1 is (gay|lesbian|female|sexless|male|hermaphroditic|pregnant|not sure)." |
| 20:23.26 | sylvanaar_atwork | pregnant |
| 20:23.32 | Thunder_Child | ~facinfo CMD: gender (.*?) |
| 20:23.46 | Thunder_Child | not a factoid i guess |
| 20:24.00 | malreth | ~fail Thunder_Child |
| 20:24.01 | purl | Thunder_Child, you Fail! |
| 20:24.34 | Thunder_Child | hardly malreth |
| 20:24.38 | alestane | Fairly funny case of miscommunication [NSFW subtitles]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Tj6AskAO9s |
| 20:25.19 | Thunder_Child | lol sylvanaar_atwork "put the not active alpha option back in now that i remember what it does" |
| 20:25.25 | *** part/#wowuidev CodeRedLin (~grivell@c-68-45-212-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 20:25.41 | sylvanaar_atwork | lol |
| 20:25.55 | *** join/#wowuidev boshi23_ (~boshi23@c-68-81-3-76.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 20:25.59 | Thunder_Child | do you even use your own addon? |
| 20:26.04 | *** join/#wowuidev CodeRedLin (~grivell@c-68-45-212-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 20:26.11 | *** join/#wowuidev malreth (~triti@dhcp-128-83-186-188.its.utexas.edu) |
| 20:26.44 | malreth | ~factinfo CMD: gender (.*?) |
| 20:26.44 | purl | cmd: gender (.*?) -- last modified at Sat Jun 3 17:06:50 2006 by tokimi!n=toki@70-57-24-100.hlrn.qwest.net; it has been requested 35 times, last by Mikk, 4m 37s ago. |
| 20:26.44 | Fisker | so alestane |
| 20:26.46 | Fisker | a penis isn't NSFW? |
| 20:26.59 | alestane | Not sure what you can even see there. |
| 20:27.03 | Thunder_Child | oh, forgot a t |
| 20:27.17 | Thunder_Child | still malreth, it isnt a factoid |
| 20:27.19 | alestane | Mostly intended to indicate that audio wasn't particularly an issue. |
| 20:27.25 | Thunder_Child | err...nvm |
| 20:27.47 | alestane | Unless your office speaks whatever Scandinavian language that is. |
| 20:28.57 | Mikk | sweden |
| 20:29.38 | alestane | I am not sufficiently versed in the various varieties of Viking to distinguish them from each other that easily, unfortunately. |
| 20:29.45 | Fisker | STOP LYING TO ME |
| 20:30.02 | Mikk | HAHAHAHAHAHAHA |
| 20:30.06 | Mikk | fucking awesome |
| 20:31.06 | Thunder_Child | alestane: why not? |
| 20:31.28 | alestane | Why am I not familiar enough to tell Norwegian from Danish from Swedish? |
| 20:31.43 | Thunder_Child | yes |
| 20:31.51 | Mikk | If it sounds like they haven't swallowed whatever it is they're eating, it's danish |
| 20:32.13 | Mikk | I don't have a helpful rule for norwegian vs swedish though i'm afraid :P |
| 20:32.17 | alestane | Insufficient guidance, examples and motivation. |
| 20:32.20 | Thunder_Child | really? wow, then i speak danish all the time |
| 20:32.51 | Thunder_Child | thats not a good reason alestane |
| 20:33.18 | alestane | Someone claimed to me once that Danes can usually understand Norwegians, but Norwegians can almost never understand Danes. |
| 20:34.02 | alestane | Also time, Thunder_Child. It has simply never been justifiable as a priority in my circumstances. |
| 20:34.27 | Thunder_Child | alestane: you seem to have enough time to be in here.... |
| 20:34.52 | alestane | I understand some French, a little Irish and am mostly fluent in Japanese. Not room for many more. |
| 20:35.03 | alestane | And is learning Norwegian more important, Thunder_Child? |
| 20:35.31 | Thunder_Child | alestane: more? i dont know about that, but you did say you were time limited. |
| 20:36.39 | alestane | Hence why I have no time left afterward for Scandinavian languages. |
| 20:37.05 | alestane | IThere are any number of things I'd like to do. I only have so much time to divide between them. |
| 20:37.48 | Thunder_Child | well i am quite sure that learning norwegian is more important than being trolled by me |
| 20:38.44 | alestane | Hence why most of my time right now is devoted to researching Cocoa. |
| 20:46.32 | amro | alestane: get rid of the french, free up some space |
| 20:47.33 | alestane | It's mostly gone already...I can recognize it when I see it, but when I try to construct it, I usually end up with Japanese instead. |
| 20:48.04 | amro | odd, french is the opposite of japanese. at least as far as verbosity goes |
| 20:49.09 | *** join/#wowuidev testeree (~chatzilla@203.110.240.188) |
| 20:52.37 | testeree | has anybody created autocompletion lua.xml file for notepad++? |
| 20:53.12 | amro | there was one for scite, so I guess yes |
| 20:54.47 | *** join/#wowuidev ovi1 (~ovi1@unaffiliated/ovi1) |
| 21:02.43 | Arrowmaster | Shirik__: i am so going to get a temp xp ban for this http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.aspx?gameid=1696928268&player=Arrowmaster |
| 21:03.44 | nicoli_s | whatd you do? |
| 21:03.59 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@c-68-33-146-13.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 21:04.02 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 21:04.04 | nicoli_s | oh 38 melee attacks :P |
| 21:04.13 | Arrowmaster | no deaths |
| 21:04.19 | Arrowmaster | won the round |
| 21:04.24 | nicoli_s | did you do that legitly? |
| 21:04.26 | Arrowmaster | so got a perfection medal |
| 21:04.29 | Arrowmaster | fuck no |
| 21:04.47 | nicoli_s | howd ya do it? |
| 21:04.51 | kd3 | you killed mr sm 32 times? |
| 21:04.54 | Arrowmaster | boosting |
| 21:04.58 | nicoli_s | boosting? |
| 21:05.13 | Arrowmaster | yes we are trying to get achievements |
| 21:05.21 | nicoli_s | ahh ok |
| 21:05.33 | nicoli_s | i thought you meant you used hacks or something |
| 21:05.45 | foxlit | Steam: "Installing DirectX for Windows" |
| 21:05.51 | foxlit | I hope that installer knows when to bail |
| 21:05.53 | *** join/#wowuidev malreth_ (~triti@wireless-128-62-145-226.public.utexas.edu) |
| 21:08.32 | amro | foxlit: steam moves on once the installer is gone, incl if it crashes |
| 21:08.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Tinyboom (~nahh@c91FD653E.dhcp.bluecom.no) |
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| 21:11.35 | *** part/#wowuidev ovi1 (~ovi1@unaffiliated/ovi1) |
| 21:12.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Caellian (~sdkyron@ip-83-134-230-211.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 21:20.13 | Fierceflame | http://xkcd.com/ The most awesome way to calculate what 3*9 is |
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| 22:25.49 | Adys | http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/06/28/1932245/Porn-Industry-Ready-To-Drop-Flash |
| 22:26.37 | nicoli_s | http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/06/28/1932245/Porn-Industry-Ready-To-Drop-Cleveland-Steamer |
| 22:27.07 | airtonix | http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/06/28/1932245/Porn-Industry-Ready-To-Drop-Adys |
| 22:31.13 | Thunder_Child | http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/06/28/1932245/Porn-Industry-Ready-To-Drop-Trou |
| 22:33.52 | NightHawkTheSane | ah, mod-rewrite |
| 22:40.13 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 22:41.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Mr_Rabies (~Mr_Rabies@gort.linode.rosspaffett.com) |
| 22:42.19 | cogwheel | meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow |
| 22:46.37 | Thunder_Child | ~cat cogwheel |
| 22:46.38 | purl | ACTION shoves a feral cat down cogwheel's pants |
| 22:47.18 | NightHawkTheSane | gives cogwheel meow mix. |
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| 23:44.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~callahan@74-141-246-74.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 23:47.26 | NightHawkTheSane | http://vimeo.com/12819723 |
| 23:51.44 | A-KO | nice |
| 23:58.53 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (~Miranda@200.41.202.84.customer.cdi.no) |
