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| 00:15.07 | alestane | Lunessa, http://textsfromlastnight.com/Text-Replies-17939.html |
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| 00:27.47 | cralor | Alrighty... i'm struggling with a darn .bat file... how can I make a bat file that simply executes a command such as "ssh -ND XXXX user@127.0.0.1" |
| 00:28.09 | alestane | In what environment? |
| 00:28.13 | cralor | CMD |
| 00:28.34 | cralor | Windows Command line |
| 00:29.21 | alestane | My understanding (admittedly poor) is that a BAT file simply contains the lines you would type into the command prompt. |
| 00:29.51 | cralor | well I've played with it a week or so ago... one time creating an infinite loop O_O |
| 00:30.09 | cralor | i thought it'd be an easy feat |
| 00:30.47 | cralor | I simply want to connect to my openSSH server on startup without having to type manually |
| 00:33.16 | cralor | simply placing line will run it over and over :S |
| 00:36.27 | foxlit | ? |
| 00:37.00 | foxlit | I agree with alestane, simply putting whatever command you want on a single line in your file should work. |
| 00:38.16 | ZorbaGama | oh boy another vyragosa |
| 00:38.37 | foxlit | moo? |
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| 00:39.10 | foxlit | for i, id in next, cats do |
| 00:39.30 | foxlit | I think the achievement UI was written by someone recovering from reading the Lua language reference |
| 00:39.40 | foxlit | "Hey, I can use next in a for loop! Awesome!" |
| 00:42.02 | ZorbaGama | yeah it's pretty grim |
| 00:42.16 | ZorbaGama | and it's absolutely brutal to try modifying it, it's really, really not designed for some of the obvious hooks |
| 00:42.26 | ZorbaGama | lots of internal assumptions |
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| 00:47.22 | alestane | Do you want it to connect on startup, cralor, or login? |
| 00:47.46 | cralor | well I can put it in the Startup folder I think... but I am more worried about the executable. |
| 00:48.24 | cralor | if I place "ssh -ND XXXX user@127.0.0.1" as "ssh.bat" and running it will keep running it over and over :S |
| 00:49.58 | alestane | Well, yeah, since the command and the .bat have the same name. |
| 00:50.16 | alestane | Try naming the batch file sshautoconnect.bat or something like that. |
| 00:50.55 | cralor | ok |
| 00:51.22 | cralor | you rock sir |
| 00:53.17 | alestane | I was going to suggest logging it into the startup series, but MSCONFIG only lists and enables or disables things, not edit or add them. |
| 00:54.55 | cralor | after you run that line of code, it prompts you for the password. is there any way to place the password in at that time? |
| 00:55.09 | cralor | through the code |
| 00:55.30 | alestane | Probably but that depends on the ssh command line program. |
| 00:55.50 | alestane | You can try typing "ssh /?" into a command window and see what that tells you. |
| 00:55.58 | alestane | If I remember right, the Windows CMD shell searches the current directory before traversing the search path, at least by default. |
| 00:56.43 | alestane | And the command shell will consider the directory where a batch file resides to be the current directory when executing it like that, so it was finding your batch file instead of the SSH command, before. |
| 00:57.43 | alestane | But I've never been an expert on DOS/Windows. |
| 00:58.39 | foxlit | Experiment with adding it on the next line of the .bat file |
| 00:58.50 | foxlit | It might just pass it through to the first stdin read that comes along. |
| 00:59.23 | foxlit | It's unlikely that SSH would let you specify a password in the command line |
| 00:59.38 | cralor | yeah it doesn't. and added to 2nd line doesn't work |
| 01:00.05 | cralor | well it's not as big of a deal. |
| 01:00.11 | cralor | i think this should do fine |
| 01:00.36 | foxlit | Why don't you just save the connection details in whatever ssh client you use? |
| 01:00.45 | foxlit | Is there some reason to connect on every start up? |
| 01:01.30 | A-KO | god I can't wait for the new mortal kombat :( |
| 01:01.35 | A-KO | I use putty for ssh btw :P |
| 01:02.45 | cralor | ah yeah i guess i could use PuTTY |
| 01:07.02 | foxlit | "iOS 4 Addresses Over 60 Security Vulnerabilities" |
| 01:07.15 | foxlit | ^ If they're charging for the Touch update, I'm going to be annoyed. |
| 01:08.22 | Lunessa | alestane: LULZ |
| 01:09.56 | foxlit | "Your browser sent a request that this server could not understand. Request header field is missing ':' separator." |
| 01:10.57 | cralor | iPod Touch v4? You can update for free |
| 01:14.16 | A-KO | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q7v4F8r9Og |
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| 01:23.38 | Lunessa | Awww... "iOS 4 works with iPhone 4, iPhone 3GS, and iPhone 3G. Not all features are compatible with all devices. For example, multitasking is available only with iPhone 4 and iPhone 3GS." Guess I should have bought the more expensive phone. |
| 01:24.31 | A-KO | has an iphone 4 coming on Thursday :D |
| 01:24.31 | NeoTron | I guess they have insufficient resources |
| 01:24.32 | A-KO | yeah, the iphone 3g is routinely running out of memory |
| 01:24.32 | NeoTron | but you do get the icon grouping which is really nice when you have 8 pages of apps |
| 01:24.35 | Lunessa | I have a 3G - I'm not going to be getting a new one for a while. |
| 01:24.36 | A-KO | at least, mine is |
| 01:24.44 | A-KO | my iphone 3g has definitely been showing its age |
| 01:25.01 | NeoTron | I have an 3gs and I'm not upgrading any time soon |
| 01:25.05 | Lunessa | I bought mine in November, 'cause I'm cheap. |
| 01:25.52 | Cide | when you upgrade, get a droid! |
| 01:26.05 | Antiarc | basks in his 512mb of onboard RAM |
| 01:26.10 | A-KO | iphone 4 has 512 :P |
| 01:26.15 | Lunessa | I'm not really excited by any of the droid phones I've seen. |
| 01:26.16 | Cide | wow |
| 01:26.29 | Cide | a new phone has the same system specs as an old phone? :O |
| 01:26.32 | Cide | go apple! |
| 01:26.32 | A-KO | I did a lot of weighing of everything from ETF to plan costs to everything with my iphone |
| 01:26.34 | Antiarc | By the time the iphone 4 is out, there are going to be dual core android phones with 1gb of RAM running around |
| 01:26.35 | Antiarc | Just saying |
| 01:26.40 | Lunessa | And I expect to hang on to this one until AT&T tells me to GTFO their network. |
| 01:26.47 | A-KO | Cide: keep in mind that every manufacturer of an adroid phone 1-ups everyone else every 6 months |
| 01:26.53 | A-KO | Apple times major upgrades to everyone's plan cycles |
| 01:26.55 | A-KO | which is GREAT |
| 01:27.01 | Cide | I sense fanboyism |
| 01:27.23 | Cide | "apple is so kind, they time their upgrades so you can get the previous generation, every new generation" |
| 01:27.31 | A-KO | no, it just makes sense to me, I dunno. It would suck to drop $300 on a phone (cost of an Evo) only a few weeks later to be outdone and you can't upgrade for 2 years |
| 01:27.46 | Cide | you drop $300 on an iphone and you were outdone 6 months AGO |
| 01:27.48 | A-KO | i.e. droid incredible/droid x |
| 01:27.54 | A-KO | iphone was $200 |
| 01:28.01 | Antiarc | As opposed to dropping $300 on a phone and not being able to upgrade for 2 years because nothing better is on the market? |
| 01:28.03 | Cide | you drop $200 on an iphone and you were outdone 6 months AGO |
| 01:28.09 | Antiarc | Nexus One's $200 under contract, too |
| 01:28.14 | A-KO | Antiarc: the cost of these phones w/o an upgrade is $500+ |
| 01:28.16 | Cide | regardless |
| 01:28.26 | Cide | you don't have to upgrade every time there's a newer one |
| 01:28.38 | A-KO | I wasn't happy with the Evo tbh, had touch screen issues I saw when I had it for a week a few months ago |
| 01:28.41 | Cide | only that's the apple ideology since you literally have no other options |
| 01:28.50 | A-KO | using an evo for a week made me decide on getting the iphone 4 |
| 01:29.08 | Cide | using a desire for 30 minutes made me decide to never go apple again |
| 01:29.21 | Antiarc | I love the balls off of my N1 |
| 01:29.28 | A-KO | Cide: I don't really care about other "options" though to be honest with you. I do enough fussing with technology 10 hours per day, sometimes I just want my shit to work :P |
| 01:29.38 | A-KO | without having to tweak it |
| 01:29.42 | Cide | A-KO, yeah, but that's why I'm arguing with you |
| 01:29.49 | Cide | <A-KO> iphone 4 has 512 :P |
| 01:30.05 | A-KO | I can manage all of my linux webservers from my iphone, I get all of my e-mail for personal and work, I can remote desktop my windows servers as needed. |
| 01:31.01 | Antiarc | For me, it's about the progressive speed of each platform |
| 01:31.08 | Antiarc | Android is evolving and growing scarily fast |
| 01:31.15 | Antiarc | Apple's platform, not so much. |
| 01:31.17 | A-KO | the only reason I got the iphone 4 was the fact that A) it's obvious the 3g has performance-related issues as software has upgraded over the years (to be expected), and my contract was up anyway, and I was looking for a new smartphone. After playing with the Evo, after talking with coworkers and friends who have droids, after looking at what my AT&T plan pricing was versus switching my family plan lines (and the ETFs) |
| 01:31.19 | A-KO | it made sense to upgrade |
| 01:31.20 | Antiarc | Apple started out ahead. |
| 01:31.26 | Antiarc | I don't think they're going to stay there. |
| 01:31.48 | Cide | me neither |
| 01:31.52 | Antiarc | I don't understand why you would stay on AT&T if your contract was up. |
| 01:32.13 | A-KO | Antiarc: Because at the end of the day, all of the providers have their problems--and you can generally talk to XYZ person and they all say "so-so sucks" |
| 01:32.27 | Antiarc | I haven't met an unhappy Verizon user in -ages- |
| 01:32.46 | alestane | The challenge that Android will face, Antiarc, is to evolve and grow without metastasizing. |
| 01:32.48 | Antiarc | I'm on T-Mobile, and the 3G coverage isn't top-notch, but I knew that when I signed up with them. When I have it, it's fantastic. |
| 01:32.52 | A-KO | I've had my problems on AT&T, but people I know have had their problems with Verizon (why I went with AT&T in the first place)--Sprint seems to be the only one I know where people are reasonably happy, but ETF costs, + Evo problems, + Evo pricing made me stick |
| 01:33.08 | Antiarc | Evo's not the only phone on the market |
| 01:33.21 | Lunessa | I'm with AT&T for two reasons - I prefer the iPhone to the other offerings that were available to me and they're the only carrier who gets a signal where I spend most of my time. |
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| 01:33.52 | A-KO | Antiarc: no, but I also don't want to bother with being outdone every 2 months. At least with the iphone I know it's on a year upgrade cycle, with 2 years between major changes/updates. They time it well and don't give me buyer's envy or remorse about the device. |
| 01:33.52 | NeoTron | the nice thing with an iphone is that you can buy it, own it for 2 years and get a new one for less than the 2 yo one sells for |
| 01:33.55 | Antiarc | alestane: What do you mean? |
| 01:34.10 | Cide | A-KO, I don't understand that attitude at all |
| 01:34.12 | Antiarc | That just makes no sense, A-KO. You're literally arguging for an ecosystem in which you have fewer choices. |
| 01:34.16 | NeoTron | granted of course you get the 2 yo contract |
| 01:34.20 | Antiarc | RDF at full power, cap'n. |
| 01:34.22 | Cide | if you have the competing attitude, why are you only competing with your own platform? |
| 01:34.30 | A-KO | Antiarc: There's really nothing wrong with having that attitude though... |
| 01:34.34 | Cide | android phones are still coming out and being more powerful than your iphone |
| 01:34.40 | Antiarc | Except you obviously care about being outdone? |
| 01:34.41 | Cide | you can still upgrade to said android |
| 01:34.52 | Cide | except you choose to cover your eyes from half the market |
| 01:34.53 | A-KO | no you can't, not for the discount price. I don't think anyone buys a phone at full price |
| 01:35.00 | Antiarc | I bought my phone at full price |
| 01:35.07 | Antiarc | It works out to cheaper over the course of 2 years. :P |
| 01:35.22 | A-KO | heh, the plans cost the same whether you buy the phones full price or not |
| 01:35.26 | Antiarc | No they aren't. |
| 01:35.26 | alestane | Android's power and flexibility, as I understand it, derives in large part from the number of different people working on or supporting it in someway, and their freedom to do so as they see fit. This tends to lead to compatility issues, dependency challenges and a number of other resource sinks. |
| 01:35.28 | Antiarc | Want numbers? |
| 01:35.31 | Antiarc | Because I haz them/. |
| 01:36.11 | A-KO | alestane: Not the least of which is the market fragmentation even though most android users will fight against that since many of them have the <flavor of the month> android phone at the time. But it's definitely a real problem when you want a target audience... |
| 01:36.31 | Cide | market fragmentation? |
| 01:36.36 | Antiarc | Family Plan, X minutes + unlimited text/web is $109/mo without a contract, $139/mo with a contract. |
| 01:36.47 | Lunessa | To be honest, I probably don't really need a smart phone at all. I just /wanted/ one. |
| 01:36.49 | Antiarc | I save $720 over 2 years. |
| 01:36.58 | Cide | Lunessa, and you should! |
| 01:37.03 | Cide | because smartphones are awesome |
| 01:37.12 | A-KO | Antiarc: I'm pretty sure neither AT&T nor Verizon offer discounts for non-contract phones :P |
| 01:37.18 | Antiarc | I'm on T-mobile. |
| 01:37.20 | Lunessa | Cide: Yes. Browsing the net on my phone is handy. |
| 01:37.26 | Cide | yup |
| 01:37.44 | A-KO | Antiarc: T-Mobile is struggling pretty hard |
| 01:37.46 | Antiarc | So, $3,146 over two years unlocked, versus $3,535 over 2 years with the "cheap" phone option + contract. |
| 01:37.46 | Cide | I should recreate the sc2 engine on android |
| 01:37.50 | Lunessa | And having a movie and several hours of music and a half-dozen audio books is equally deliecious. |
| 01:37.51 | Cide | and make it play back replays |
| 01:37.58 | Cide | thoughts? |
| 01:38.00 | Antiarc | A-KO: I get great service and coverage, hard for me to complain. |
| 01:38.25 | alestane | There's also a strong tendency, particularly among programmers and other tech geeks, to assign the greatest desirability to the greatest freedom. While that's often true for those people, many, many technology users want their hands held in some way, to assure themselves of their safety and functionality. Hence the long-running success of both Windows and Mac OS over Linux, for instance. |
| 01:38.36 | Lunessa | Cide: I'd have to be good enough at SC:II to want that for me to have an opinion. |
| 01:38.51 | Cide | well that's a boring attitude |
| 01:38.54 | Antiarc | I absolutely place value on freedom, but I balance it with usability and power |
| 01:39.00 | kd3 | grrs at the forums |
| 01:39.04 | Cide | if it was possible it'd be awesome regardless |
| 01:39.05 | A-KO | Antiarc: yeah, I suppose if it works for you--I bought my 3g back when the iphone *was* the smart phone to get, long before the android stuff.....When you factor in, and I've done the math, that switching and paying the ETF on my other family plan phones ended up not making it worth moving to another carrier, it just made serious sense to just drop the $ on the iphone 4 |
| 01:39.07 | Antiarc | I wasn't interested in Android before the latest generation of phones, because they were just flat out inferior |
| 01:39.09 | Cide | sadly I don't think it is |
| 01:39.35 | Lunessa | Cide: Awesome is awesome, I'll give you that. But awesome I'll never use might as well not be awesome. |
| 01:39.38 | alestane | Your phone would have to be more powerful than my Mac Mini for that to be a viable option, Cide, although I won't rule out that possibility. |
| 01:39.42 | Antiarc | The latest generation of Android phones are a competitive match for the iPhone, and I honestly think that fall/winter are going to see some absolutely beastly phones enter the market. |
| 01:39.59 | A-KO | Antiarc: According to I think either gizmodo or engadget, the latest gen droid phones have touch screen problems |
| 01:40.06 | Cide | nope |
| 01:40.06 | A-KO | something I could absolutely not deal with after using an iphone |
| 01:40.07 | Antiarc | A-KO: What ETF? You said you weren't under contract anymore :P |
| 01:40.08 | Cide | only the evo |
| 01:40.08 | A-KO | which has *0* |
| 01:40.12 | Cide | only the evo |
| 01:40.20 | Cide | which has a manufacturing issue it seems |
| 01:40.30 | Antiarc | A-KO: The Nexus One has a "flip" problem with multitouch, but it doesn't actually affect anything in practice |
| 01:40.32 | Cide | rare, but common enough |
| 01:40.42 | Lunessa | the line between the phone and laptop and media device are going to blur until we're all buying or preferred computing device in micro format. |
| 01:40.51 | Cide | but I think it's pretty much common knowledge that apple's touch stuff is better still |
| 01:40.57 | Antiarc | Apple does hardware REALLY well |
| 01:40.58 | Cide | marginally so, but still |
| 01:41.07 | Antiarc | They have fantastic engineers, and I don't dispute that |
| 01:41.34 | Antiarc | But, I have a device that's 99% of what the iPhone is UX-wise, and massively more powerful in terms of what I can actually do with it. |
| 01:41.35 | Lunessa | Apple does /style/ very well. They also do "consumer device" very well. |
| 01:41.39 | Cide | and fantastic software engineers too |
| 01:41.44 | Cide | they added 1500 API's with ios 4 |
| 01:41.46 | A-KO | Antiarc: And that's the thing to me, Apple does spend the time to make sure it works that way--I really could care less about this or that application I can install or not install, because at the end of the day, the touch is the primary interface to this device--and that shit better be perfected. |
| 01:41.49 | alestane | http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/12/editorial-espn-bypasses-corporate-red-tape-with-ipad-and-xbox-3/ if you haven't seen it yet, Lunessa. That is one of the cooler uses of an iPad I've seen described. |
| 01:41.50 | A-KO | Otherwise I will hate it instantly |
| 01:42.04 | Cide | the thing is |
| 01:42.17 | Cide | android, or imo in particular htc sense, has a superior user interface to the iphone |
| 01:42.18 | A-KO | I have all of the apps I need |
| 01:42.32 | Antiarc | casually shows off Swype |
| 01:42.37 | Cide | ^ |
| 01:42.39 | Antiarc | casually uses Google Voice |
| 01:42.40 | Cide | not in swedish yet :( |
| 01:42.41 | A-KO | Swype, you get multitouch keyboard, big deal :P |
| 01:42.43 | A-KO | I use google voice |
| 01:42.44 | A-KO | in fact |
| 01:42.47 | A-KO | another reason I stuck with AT&T |
| 01:42.48 | Antiarc | Swype is a BFD |
| 01:42.49 | Cide | have you tried swype? |
| 01:42.55 | Antiarc | It's absolutely incredible. |
| 01:42.56 | Cide | it's like the iddqd of text messaging |
| 01:42.59 | Antiarc | It's not just a multitouch keyboard. |
| 01:43.09 | A-KO | cide I can do 30-40wpm+ on my iphone's keyboard....I don't really need much more :P |
| 01:43.14 | Cide | sure you can |
| 01:43.23 | Cide | swype does 60 |
| 01:43.24 | Antiarc | casually uses voice input everywhere in every app ever |
| 01:43.26 | A-KO | Antiarc: I've got my local google voice # in my AT&T's A-List |
| 01:43.36 | A-KO | think about that for a minute |
| 01:43.38 | A-KO | and what taht provides me :P |
| 01:43.56 | A-KO | is hoping AT&T doesn't catch on to that one just yet |
| 01:43.57 | Antiarc | And I have two inbound/outbound numbers on my phone, one my carrier line, one a VOIP line, and all my voicemail is managed by Google Voice :P |
| 01:44.16 | A-KO | Antiarc: I can make any phone call to anyone within the US and Canada completely free without burning my plan minutes |
| 01:44.26 | A-KO | at any time of day |
| 01:44.38 | A-KO | Sprint doens't do that except for mobile numbers only |
| 01:44.53 | A-KO | so, GV + AT&T's A-list wins |
| 01:44.57 | Lunessa | alestane: neat |
| 01:45.29 | Antiarc | Well, you're pretty obviously determined to like your platform, so more power to you, I guess? |
| 01:45.42 | Antiarc | I like having a platform that does it all and a little bit more. :P |
| 01:45.50 | A-KO | But at the end of the day, seriously--I spend all day at work doing shit with technology.....each day has me either playing linux engineer, windows engineer, helpdesk, tech support, network engineer, sql admin, or app developer........I really don't want to fight with my phone or else I'd throw it across the room.... |
| 01:46.15 | A-KO | I already have a daily regimen of excedrine migraine to handle the BS as-is |
| 01:46.16 | A-KO | :P |
| 01:46.22 | Antiarc | You seem to have the idea that Android users have to fight with their phones |
| 01:46.31 | Antiarc | And I certainly haven't had that experience |
| 01:47.21 | A-KO | Antiarc: The only people I have seen that are happy with their android phones are either A) People that bought it to spite AT&T or Apple, or B) Star Wars Nerds, or C) People that want to be different... |
| 01:47.30 | alestane | I've been exposed briefly to both the EVO and the iPhone, and thoroughly to neither. My current impression is that they're both pretty darn cool, and that the distinctions, advantages and drawbacks are likely to be significant to only small segments of the markets. |
| 01:47.30 | Cide | um |
| 01:47.38 | Cide | how many people with android phones do you know? |
| 01:47.45 | Cide | and what's their iq? (below or above 60 will do) |
| 01:47.46 | Lunessa | At the time I was shopping for a phone the Android offerings were not very good, and they were from T-Mobile. Which meant... no signal. And at the time they didn't support PEAP so I couldn't WiFi here at work for skype or Google Voice. |
| 01:48.07 | Antiarc | android phones really weren't that great until the latest round of offerings. |
| 01:48.16 | Antiarc | They were decent second-placers, but not really competitors |
| 01:48.30 | Antiarc | But we've hit the inflection point and it's gonna get real interesting from here out, IMO |
| 01:48.46 | A-KO | honestly, I think both Apple and Google have missed the mark :P |
| 01:48.48 | Lunessa | So, in November, I replaced my Blackberry Perl with an iPhone 3G - A generation behind. |
| 01:48.49 | A-KO | there's still a gap |
| 01:48.55 | A-KO | and Microsoft may possibly exploit it |
| 01:49.01 | A-KO | there's a huge, huge gap between the two devices |
| 01:49.08 | A-KO | two types of devices anyway |
| 01:49.09 | Antiarc | Hahahahaha |
| 01:49.25 | Antiarc | Microsoft is doing everything they can to make sure they fail in the mobile space |
| 01:49.26 | Lunessa | And --- now I wait. I'm hoping a better device that makes me love it will be along when I'm ready to replace. |
| 01:49.27 | Antiarc | It's a little sad |
| 01:49.36 | Antiarc | I was really excited when I saw the first releases from them |
| 01:49.43 | Antiarc | They looked like they were gonna make a really strong showing |
| 01:49.52 | Antiarc | But it's just been a downhill sprint from there |
| 01:49.57 | A-KO | I still think MS will put out a really nice product |
| 01:50.07 | A-KO | MS is known for this |
| 01:50.14 | A-KO | exploiting market holes |
| 01:50.22 | A-KO | it's their strength |
| 01:50.23 | Antiarc | The Kin sure is lighting up the sales charts, eh? |
| 01:50.32 | alestane | That article I linked before links to an article about their mobile offerings with the text :obviously a boneheaded decision". |
| 01:50.35 | A-KO | the Kin isn't WM7 |
| 01:50.48 | Antiarc | But it's MS's attempt to exploit a market hole |
| 01:50.53 | alestane | A-KO: Case in point <sarcasm>the Zune.</sarcasm> |
| 01:51.01 | Lunessa | Microsoft is known for being very, very late to the party, but then using their installed base to insert their giant marketing penis into our lives. |
| 01:51.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (~xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 01:51.16 | alestane | Considered an absolutely outstanding product by the forty people who use one. |
| 01:51.46 | alestane | Most of the time. |
| 01:52.06 | alestane | The one Zune I know has cursed at it on multiple occasions, and literally hurled it across the room at least once. |
| 01:52.12 | alestane | Zune owner* |
| 01:52.31 | Lunessa | I don't personally know a single person with a Zune. |
| 01:52.34 | A-KO | alestane: Well, there's the problem with Apple's devices that people hate--extremely closed off devices, draconian app market, and extremely limited to 1 service. But on the positive side of that, developers know what they're writing for. It's a pretty consistent environment for years at a time. |
| 01:52.35 | alestane | It speaks reasonably well for the device that its function didn't suffer. |
| 01:52.39 | Lunessa | Unless someone here does. |
| 01:52.56 | A-KO | on the other corner, you've got Google's Android--which is so open that there's so much market fragmentation and they move so fast writing software is a moving target |
| 01:53.15 | A-KO | and if you want to write for the latest and greatest, gets extremely costly |
| 01:53.37 | Antiarc | There's not nearly as much market fragmentation as you seem to think |
| 01:54.00 | A-KO | Antiarc: many of the android phones out there won't see 2.2--ever. And these are people that are still locked in contract |
| 01:54.06 | A-KO | that's HORRENDOUS |
| 01:54.18 | Antiarc | Sure. But what effect does that have? Do you know how Android software is developed? |
| 01:54.40 | Antiarc | You target a minimum compatible API level. If the installed OS doesn't meet that API level, the app doesn't show as available for the device. |
| 01:54.57 | A-KO | Microsoft on the other hand, if they play their cards right--can put out a device that exploits both of these--it's closed enough to provide a solid, stable platform for a mobile environment--but open enough that developers can freely write software without big brother telling them they can't put XYZ into the apps.... |
| 01:54.58 | alestane | http://www.tuaw.com/2010/06/14/chocolate-covered-ipad-looks-tasty?icid=sphere_blogsmith_inpage_engadget ... |
| 01:54.59 | alestane | ... |
| 01:55.03 | alestane | ...WTF?! |
| 01:55.11 | Antiarc | So if you want to use feature X, that's API level 2. Feature Y is API level 5. Z is API level 8. You just pick what level you want to target, and consequently, what market(s) you want to target. |
| 01:55.14 | Antiarc | And there you go. All done. |
| 01:55.23 | A-KO | not to mention, mobile gaming might hit it big--and MS can tie the wm7 phone to xbox live, done deal. |
| 01:55.39 | A-KO | if you can get a WM7 and unlock achievements, weapons, or play side-games on any popular, major xbox 360 game |
| 01:55.47 | A-KO | you will see a significant bunch of people jump to that device |
| 01:55.55 | A-KO | especially when the platform isn't locked to one carrier |
| 01:56.18 | A-KO | that's a lot of if's, but so far Microsoft has proven they do good in those situations |
| 01:56.33 | A-KO | in as little as 5-6 years MS completely took the console market by storm |
| 01:58.03 | A-KO | we'll see, won't affect me since I'm locked in contract until the end of the world ;) |
| 01:59.25 | Antiarc | :< |
| 01:59.33 | Antiarc | I have Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 ready to DL in Steam |
| 01:59.38 | Antiarc | And I have 7GB left on my HD. |
| 01:59.40 | Antiarc | :< |
| 01:59.51 | Cide | it's pretty much the same as the iphone really, isn't it |
| 02:00.12 | Cide | try using one of the 1500 new API's and try and install the app on an iphone that's not running ios 4 |
| 02:01.09 | Antiarc | Apple does a lot to ensure backwards compatibility, but I think that we're gonna start seeing some major splits given the difference in approach between 4 and the previous generations |
| 02:01.42 | Lunessa | :) |
| 02:01.50 | A-KO | well, in Apple's defense, the 3g is now 2 years old--and the 3GS is at a $100 price-point, they've been doing a damn good job at product lifecycle management given that they could potentially move a lot faster than what they are.. |
| 02:01.51 | Antiarc | The 3G won't support multitasking, though, for example, which is gonna be huge. |
| 02:02.14 | Antiarc | Being able to flip between apps is wonderful. :D |
| 02:02.17 | A-KO | yeah, but keep in mind that many people who got a 3g are getting a 4 |
| 02:02.24 | Antiarc | ...so? |
| 02:02.24 | A-KO | the 3g came out in June/July of 2008 |
| 02:02.40 | Antiarc | You argue fragmentation, then argue that Apple solves it by makign everyone upgrade their hardware? |
| 02:02.42 | A-KO | so it's really not that big of a deal, the people that waited until the past 6-12 months to get a $100 3g don't really care anyway |
| 02:03.08 | A-KO | if they cared about multitasking at this point, they would not have bought an iphone |
| 02:03.17 | A-KO | so the only people that really matter are set for an upgrade |
| 02:03.30 | A-KO | and considering they sold 600,000+ devices in < 8 hours |
| 02:03.33 | A-KO | that's pretty damn good |
| 02:03.57 | Antiarc | Apple does marketing like nobody else on the planet |
| 02:04.04 | Antiarc | Doesn't make their devices necessarily better. :P |
| 02:05.18 | A-KO | It's really not marketing that got me to get these devices though :P |
| 02:05.48 | Lunessa | *nod* And we should, for the sake of being entirely fair, lay out that "better" is defined differently for different sorts of consumers. |
| 02:06.23 | A-KO | yes, yes it is |
| 02:06.42 | A-KO | I don't know--I jailbroke my iphone for a week and saw that Cydia sucked so much ass, and so did all the crap on there, that I unjailbroke it |
| 02:07.13 | A-KO | I jailbroke it mostly for SSH and other random stuff, and the iSSH app does it so much better than the hacked up "hey look I'm running unix appz on my phone man!" junk :P |
| 02:07.25 | A-KO | the emulators were cool, but aside from a couple of games, were junk |
| 02:07.39 | A-KO | I really don't care about buying an app here or there, so the pirate scene didn't do it for me |
| 02:07.59 | Dagmar | Pfft. gFont is broke. |
| 02:08.00 | A-KO | tethering hasn't been an issue--as free wifi has dominated every area I potentially go to while carrying my laptop anyway |
| 02:08.06 | Antiarc | You can't do SSH without jailbreaking? |
| 02:08.32 | ZorbaGama | I suspect that android is going to slow down a bit once the big major features are hit |
| 02:08.43 | Dagmar | Not really sure that Simon Tatham's going to pony up the $4k to be able to punt that to iPhone |
| 02:08.55 | Dagmar | Android is considerably less hassle |
| 02:09.04 | ZorbaGama | the jump between 1.0 and 2.2 is pretty damn huge, but 2.1 is already half the market. targeting 2.1+ is pretty reasonable at this point. |
| 02:10.23 | Antiarc | Honestly, the jump between 1.0 and 1.5 is huge, and almost nobody is on pre-1.5 at all |
| 02:11.34 | ZorbaGama | yeah, as I remember it's 25% 1.5, 25% 1.6, 50% 2.1 |
| 02:11.38 | ZorbaGama | everything else negligable |
| 02:11.54 | Dagmar | People needa stop teasin' about Android on Palms |
| 02:12.08 | Dagmar | I got all excited about a report someone had gotten it running on a Palm 800w. |
| 02:12.16 | Dagmar | RUnning in a Java VM DOES NOT COUNT. |
| 02:12.26 | Dagmar | I would so love to ditch WM |
| 02:12.42 | Lunessa | There are 6 apps for doing SSH in the App store right now. No jailbreaking required. |
| 02:13.05 | Antiarc | A-KO: re: fragmentation, look what just popped up today! |
| 02:13.06 | Antiarc | http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/06/future-proofing-your-app.html |
| 02:13.22 | Antiarc | I mean, Google's obviously pushing to mitigate the effects of fragmentation. |
| 02:14.00 | A-KO | Antiarc: uhm, that's not really saying much other than showing developers how to target a specific platform |
| 02:14.27 | Antiarc | Read it through. They're planning for graceful handling of fragmentation across a whole range of devices, not just phones. |
| 02:14.28 | A-KO | that really doesn't say much...so you tell your app "requires 2.1 and XY screen res" now X% of the android-OS market can't use the app because it never shows up in the app store |
| 02:14.42 | Antiarc | Android is being pitched as a lot more than just a smartphone OS. |
| 02:14.50 | Antiarc | Google's gonna be playing big with it. |
| 02:15.04 | A-KO | on the iphone, very minimal applications make use of the compass on the 3GS for example, and the only real difference between the devices (until v4) is speed |
| 02:15.12 | Antiarc | The fragmentation argument doesn't hold a lot of water, because they're really very obviously looking to mitigate it as far as the user is concerned. |
| 02:15.31 | Antiarc | If my device doesn't have a mic, why would I care about an app that relies on mic input anyhow? |
| 02:15.40 | ZorbaGama | android is rigging itself up to allow far faster improvements than the current iphone development systems do |
| 02:15.46 | Antiarc | ^ |
| 02:15.47 | ZorbaGama | yes, that'll lead to fragmentation |
| 02:15.59 | ZorbaGama | but I don't really see it as a problem |
| 02:16.00 | Antiarc | Fragmentation isn't necessarily -bad- though. |
| 02:16.02 | A-KO | like I said, I still think google has it all wrong |
| 02:16.10 | Antiarc | Because they're planning for it, beyond "okay, everyone buy the latest device" |
| 02:16.32 | Antiarc | We'll see, I guess. Android is eating marketshare like nobody's business, and Apple's pretty much flatlined. |
| 02:16.42 | A-KO | The most successful companiesi n the industry are where they are today because of the entire platforms they've built that work together and work well together within their ecosystems.... |
| 02:16.49 | A-KO | I wouldn't really say Apple's flatlined... |
| 02:16.57 | Antiarc | Their marketshare is more or less static. |
| 02:17.01 | A-KO | I'm pretty sure the iphone 4 outsold some android phones combined :P |
| 02:17.10 | Antiarc | To who? Existing iphone users, primarily. |
| 02:17.14 | Antiarc | That doesn't increase marketshare. |
| 02:18.10 | Antiarc | http://blogs.computerworld.com/15692/android_marketshare_growing_iphone_shrinking_says_quantcast |
| 02:18.13 | A-KO | Well you have to keep in mind the market, the market is more than just people who actually care about the phones :P I'm willing to wager the fact that a vast majority of cell phone customers really honestly don't give a damn either way :P |
| 02:18.52 | A-KO | If most of those people can get an "iphone-like" device on a cheaper plan |
| 02:18.56 | A-KO | like t-mobile, etc. |
| 02:18.58 | A-KO | they'll do it |
| 02:19.14 | A-KO | with that in mind |
| 02:19.20 | A-KO | that's why I don't buy them |
| 02:19.20 | A-KO | :P |
| 02:19.33 | A-KO | because that's all the phone manufacturers care about, being "iphone-like" |
| 02:19.52 | A-KO | anyways |
| 02:19.53 | Antiarc | Uhhh |
| 02:19.53 | A-KO | sleep time |
| 02:19.57 | A-KO | 2 more days til I get my phone :P |
| 02:20.02 | A-KO | if you want |
| 02:20.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (~Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:20.07 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 02:20.08 | A-KO | I"ll put it head to head against Evo and droid :P |
| 02:20.09 | Kraps | http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/25482230335/icebound-cloak-s-droprate-intentional/ |
| 02:21.47 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 02:21.59 | Lunessa | Someone needs a lesson in probability. |
| 02:22.07 | Antiarc | The funny thing is |
| 02:22.17 | Antiarc | For quests, at least, WoW uses progressive probabilities :P |
| 02:22.27 | Antiarc | So it behaves more "intuitively" to the math-challenged |
| 02:23.03 | Antiarc | http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/57886 |
| 02:28.37 | Lunessa | Antiarc: Interesting. I'd never seen that article. |
| 02:31.05 | Lunessa | Though reading it makes me feel like the interviewer was math-challenged. |
| 02:32.03 | cybermind | esp. with "last year's ... expansion" |
| 02:32.20 | cybermind | whoops there i go being math challenged |
| 02:32.22 | cybermind | may 09 |
| 02:32.25 | Kraps | i still dont get why there isnt a 100% drop rate |
| 02:32.48 | Kraps | for the "10 bear asses" stuff |
| 02:32.48 | cybermind | would be boring |
| 02:33.10 | ZorbaGama | kraps, look up "skinner box" |
| 02:33.13 | cybermind | well with some quests that want "pristine horns" or something, it makes sense that some of your attacks may go haphazardly wrong |
| 02:33.34 | cybermind | and damage what part you were trying to get |
| 02:33.54 | cybermind | but essentially, it draws on the same notion t hat gambling does |
| 02:34.00 | cybermind | the thought of "next time i'll get it for sure!" |
| 02:34.02 | Kraps | ZorbaGama: i thought of that but isnt instanced gear enough of a skinn box? |
| 02:34.12 | Kraps | +er |
| 02:34.29 | cybermind | and youll keep going because youre sure youll get it next kill |
| 02:34.42 | ZorbaGama | there's no such thing as "enough of a skinner box" |
| 02:34.44 | cybermind | and if it doesnt happen, you wont give up because you KNOW the next one you kill will give you the item |
| 02:34.55 | ZorbaGama | games like WoW are designed to include various tiered rewards at every level of play |
| 02:35.16 | Kraps | ok? |
| 02:35.26 | ZorbaGama | no matter what you're doing, if you go just a little bit further you'll probably get "something" that is exciting, whether that's badges, another quest, more drops for a quest, epic rare drops, whatever. |
| 02:36.12 | Antiarc | Carrot on a stick. |
| 02:36.18 | Antiarc | It's the crux of the whole design. |
| 02:36.30 | ZorbaGama | Diablo 2 is a much cleaner example of this - at each point in the game there's a whole pile of "just one more . . ." that you could keep playing for. Next quest, next rare monster, next green, next zone, next level, next ability. |
| 02:36.52 | ZorbaGama | WoW's got more of that, but it's a bit messier. It's all still there, though. |
| 02:37.18 | ZorbaGama | Adding random chance keeps people from saying "well, it'll be 15 minutes until the next Important Thing", and that keeps 'em playing for longer. |
| 02:37.18 | Kraps | and they cant do that for wow why? |
| 02:37.40 | ZorbaGama | They do, it's just a little harder to notice. Note that half of the Diablo 2 examples are randomized. |
| 02:37.53 | ZorbaGama | (whether it's intentionally more subtle or just more complicated, I couldn't say) |
| 02:47.57 | Iriel | I think the point with the progressive probabilities is that there's a fixed WORST case, not that you will always have to take the longest possible time. |
| 02:48.03 | Iriel | It's to limit the degree of 'un-fun' |
| 02:49.50 | WobWork | does anyone remember that machinima that was done by some taiwanese guild, it was in the style of channel surfing, and had Taurenformers and tellytubbies etc |
| 02:50.01 | WobWork | (and was all in chinese, natch) |
| 02:52.39 | Kraps | Shirik |
| 02:53.11 | Kraps | http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=World_of_Warcraft&diff=cur&oldid=369480561&diffonly=0 |
| 02:53.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Natch| (~natch@c-97cde155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 02:56.18 | Shirik | and this is why I like pending changes, Kraps |
| 02:57.23 | Kraps | do ALL edits get put on a pending list or just anon ones? |
| 02:57.33 | Cide | Shirik! |
| 02:57.36 | Cide | did you see my awesome fix? |
| 02:57.39 | Shirik | Kraps |
| 02:57.46 | Shirik | (del/undel) 22:12, 15 June 2010 Shirik (talk | contribs | block) configured pending changes settings for World of Warcraft [Accept: require "autoconfirmed" permission] ‎ (Day 2 pending Changes trial) (hist) |
| 02:57.53 | Shirik | Key part: [Accept: require "autoconfirmed" permission] |
| 02:58.03 | Shirik | anyone that doesn't fit in "accept" is not automatically accepted |
| 02:58.15 | WobWork | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReczpUDAd80 |
| 02:58.26 | Shirik | Cide, no |
| 02:58.33 | Cide | well then I have to find it |
| 02:58.38 | Cide | do you have the pastey link around still? |
| 02:58.43 | Kraps | see but the autoconfirmed guy was wrong here |
| 03:00.03 | Kraps | and i thought i accepted anons edit :( |
| 03:00.19 | Shirik | pastey.com |
| 03:00.32 | Shirik | Kraps: You did |
| 03:00.45 | Shirik | wait no you didn't |
| 03:00.51 | Shirik | someone named My76Strat did |
| 03:00.56 | Kraps | yes |
| 03:01.02 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy1 (~Mike@c-68-38-51-80.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 03:01.11 | Kraps | he killstole |
| 03:01.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide- (~Andre@hus110a.bobbnet.com) |
| 03:01.20 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
| 03:01.21 | Shirik | lol |
| 03:01.22 | Kraps | ima teabag him |
| 03:01.25 | Cide- | Shirik, http://wowi.pastey.net/137904 |
| 03:03.18 | Shirik | impressive Cide |
| 03:03.21 | Shirik | why didn't I think of that |
| 03:03.26 | Cide | I thought so too |
| 03:03.37 | Kraps | http://www.wow.com/2010/06/21/the-lawbringer-new-battle-net-tou/ |
| 03:03.40 | Cide | the first post from me is way longer |
| 03:03.44 | Cide | then I realized it was all unnecessary |
| 03:05.16 | Kraps | Shirik: they should add http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:OldReviewedPages to reviewers toolboxes |
| 03:06.30 | Corrodias | eyebrows at the way Blizzard now says you can't use battle.net (which includes SC2) for any non-Blizzard group competition |
| 03:06.44 | Corrodias | guess they didn't think lan parties were QUITE dead enough |
| 03:07.28 | Cide | what? |
| 03:07.33 | Lunessa | LAN parties ... mostly obviated by the internet anyway. |
| 03:07.36 | Cide | as in what do you mean |
| 03:08.09 | Corrodias | Changes to the License Limitations: 3. use the Service for any "e-sports" or group competition sponsored, promoted or facilitated by an ycommercial or non-profit entity without Blizzard's prior written consent; |
| 03:08.17 | Corrodias | (prohibited) |
| 03:08.41 | Corrodias | Kraps's link |
| 03:09.57 | ZorbaGama | blizzard and apple are in a tight competition to be the most ridiculously controlling company |
| 03:10.03 | Cide | wow |
| 03:10.07 | Cide | you are kididng me right? |
| 03:10.10 | Cide | kidding |
| 03:10.19 | Cide | so much overreacting going on with regards to sc2 |
| 03:10.36 | Corrodias | yeah, i bet nobody's even going to buy it anyway, it's probably all moot, right? |
| 03:10.54 | Cide | no |
| 03:12.06 | Corrodias | my enthusiasm for their policies has slipped over the years. |
| 03:12.46 | Cide | wow has the policy that they can ban you at any time for any thing |
| 03:12.56 | Cide | oh my god blizzard are corrupt |
| 03:13.06 | Cide | that's arguably MUCH WORSE |
| 03:14.18 | Lunessa | I can feel the rectal bleeding already |
| 03:14.25 | Cide | they're probably getting at stuff like kespa |
| 03:14.35 | Cide | who they no longer partner with |
| 03:14.38 | alestane | I mean, if you invite sixteen people to participate in an SC2 playoff or WoW arena tournament and give the winner a box of Pocky, I seriously doubt anyone from Blizzard is going to show up with an injunction. |
| 03:14.56 | Cide | and they don't want them to host stuff on blizzard's servers or do esports stuff without blizzard's consent |
| 03:15.07 | alestane | It's far more likely that they're trying to formalize relationships with anyone who wants to do things like televise matches. |
| 03:15.09 | Corrodias | not that you can actually play the game in a multiplayer fashion without it |
| 03:15.12 | Lunessa | But... you put that shit on PPV and they want their fucking cut. |
| 03:15.29 | Iriel | And what if you do want to host some big event, you'd ask Blizzard for permission, and they'd probably say yes unless there was some decent reason not to |
| 03:15.40 | Cide | and there wouldn't be |
| 03:15.42 | Corrodias | or they just ignore you |
| 03:15.49 | Cide | and then you do it anyway |
| 03:15.54 | Corrodias | and then... |
| 03:16.01 | Cide | and then everything is fine and dandy |
| 03:16.08 | Corrodias | you can hope |
| 03:16.13 | Cide | they're getting at commercial esports like alestane said |
| 03:16.16 | alestane | There are laws that apply when you can demonstrate that you applied for permission and received no response. |
| 03:16.25 | Cide | televised matches in korea by companies that aren't cooperating with blizzard, for example |
| 03:16.42 | *** join/#wowuidev SeanK (~seank@pool-98-117-120-73.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 03:16.49 | Lunessa | It basically means that you won't be finding an SC:II tourney at your local cyber-cafe or SF con - unless those people are patient and persistent about getting permission. |
| 03:17.16 | Cide | nah |
| 03:17.18 | Corrodias | rolls his eyes at realid again and moves on |
| 03:17.53 | Cide | there is no way people will care about that paragraph in the slightest unless it's 1) a HUGE lan party, or 2) a professional organization |
| 03:18.02 | Cide | and both of those will get answers |
| 03:18.04 | Corrodias | oh cool, they do in-game advertising now, too, huh. |
| 03:18.17 | Cide | they have done in-game advertising since diablo 2 |
| 03:18.22 | Cide | for their own products |
| 03:18.32 | Cide | likely other products as well |
| 03:18.34 | ZorbaGama | cide, that's what everyone says, right up until they start caring about those rules for small groups as well |
| 03:18.38 | Corrodias | in-lobby |
| 03:18.58 | Cide | ZorbaGama, that's what everyone says until blizzard starts banning their whole player base in wow simply because they can |
| 03:19.00 | ZorbaGama | seriously, "we don't plan on using these rules in those cases" is shorthand for "we plan on using these rules in those cases". it always has been. |
| 03:19.07 | Cide | oh wait, they actually want the game to become big and they want to make money |
| 03:19.11 | Cide | jesus christ are you stupid? |
| 03:19.12 | Kraps | gets a tampon for Lunessa's bleeding |
| 03:19.20 | ZorbaGama | the "we can ban you for whatever" rule is just a general escape clause. it's not targeted towards anything in particular. |
| 03:19.28 | Cide | and it's arguably MUCH WORSE |
| 03:19.36 | Cide | and by your logic it's short hand for "we will use it" |
| 03:19.38 | ZorbaGama | if they wanted to target large tournaments, they could *easily* mention some size limit or some kind of profit motive or whatever |
| 03:19.54 | ZorbaGama | the fact that they haven't done so is an indication that they don't want to restrict it. |
| 03:19.57 | Cide | naturally they want to keep it as open ended as possible |
| 03:20.05 | Cide | it's simple logic |
| 03:20.23 | Lunessa | sees that once again someone's sarcasm detector didn't register |
| 03:20.31 | Cide | why would they not allow lan parties? |
| 03:20.55 | Cide | they obviously want their fans to play the game |
| 03:20.59 | Cide | and it's free pr |
| 03:21.02 | Cide | and they're not stupid |
| 03:21.15 | ZorbaGama | *shrug* they decide they can make money off it |
| 03:21.20 | SeanK | any lua coders on? |
| 03:21.29 | Cide | I read that they have spent $1 billion on sc2 |
| 03:21.33 | Cide | I don't know if it's accurate |
| 03:21.36 | Corrodias | i guess i get a little emotional when i see them add things that say "you can't do things" even if they are probably going to ignore it in most cases |
| 03:21.56 | ZorbaGama | I agree that it would be ridiculous for them to do so, but that's certainly never stopped many companies before. |
| 03:22.01 | Cide | but if it's accurate in the slightest that to me says that they don't want to screw over their player base |
| 03:22.06 | Corrodias | the question comes up "why not?" and i can't think of a good reason besides "so you can pay us more" |
| 03:22.20 | Cide | how would people pay them more for not being able to play? |
| 03:22.22 | ZorbaGama | Hell, they don't let people charge money for WoW UI mods. Would they allow for a $5 entrance tournament? |
| 03:22.31 | Corrodias | i don't know, Cide, but that seems to be the intent, doesn't it? |
| 03:22.38 | Cide | no |
| 03:22.44 | Corrodias | no organized tournaments that they aren't a part of? why, exactly? |
| 03:22.45 | ZorbaGama | "if you want a tournament/lan party, you must pay us $1 per seat" |
| 03:22.48 | ZorbaGama | that's pretty obvious, no? |
| 03:22.48 | Corrodias | we can't let people play the game together? |
| 03:22.51 | Kraps | Lunessa: what? dont hate the tampon |
| 03:22.54 | SeanK | any addon coders on? |
| 03:22.57 | Kraps | its legit |
| 03:23.03 | ZorbaGama | seank, you may be better off asking your real question :P |
| 03:23.14 | Cide | they want to get at COMPANIES that make profit off sc2 in one way or another |
| 03:23.19 | Cide | like kespa |
| 03:23.21 | Cide | google it |
| 03:23.25 | Lunessa | SeanK: Everyone in this channel. |
| 03:23.25 | SeanK | I'm pulling my hair out. I have a saved varialbe that keeps collecting junk and I can't figure out how to clear it. I am trying the following http://wowuidev.pastey.net/137939 but it doesn't work. |
| 03:23.33 | Corrodias | Cide: why, exactly? |
| 03:23.35 | Cide | blizzard had a partnership with kespa but ended it |
| 03:23.44 | Cide | without such a clause they could just keep doing their thing |
| 03:23.50 | Corrodias | and why is that a problem? |
| 03:24.01 | Cide | because kespa was responsible for all sc1 esports in korea |
| 03:24.26 | Corrodias | aaaaand? why is THAT a problem? |
| 03:24.26 | Cide | and by extension sc1's esport success |
| 03:24.26 | Cide | because they handled it HORRIBLY |
| 03:24.26 | Cide | with cheating scandals |
| 03:24.29 | ZorbaGama | so what you're saying is that, in fact, blizzard won't allow people to play the game without paying them? |
| 03:24.32 | Corrodias | ah, so it's about protecting the public image of the game. |
| 03:24.34 | Cide | they had stupid rules that disqualified players if they typed a single letter in chat |
| 03:24.53 | Cide | one example is a player typing "a" in chat to see if his keyboard was set to the proper layout |
| 03:24.56 | Cide | and he got disqualified |
| 03:25.03 | Antiarc | r? |
| 03:25.06 | Antiarc | BANNINATED |
| 03:25.14 | Cide | another example was typing "gG" or "Gg" -- it had to be typed in either all upper- or all lowercase |
| 03:25.23 | Cide | otherwise instantaneously disqualified |
| 03:25.26 | Corrodias | yes, those are stupid, not my problem |
| 03:25.32 | Cide | but it's blizzard's problem |
| 03:25.34 | Corrodias | but i think i understand the point now |
| 03:25.50 | Cide | they cannot let such companies run big esports events |
| 03:25.51 | Corrodias | blizzard wants -good- tournaments to be popular, and for that, they need to prevent -bad- ones? |
| 03:26.22 | Cide | they want to control the direction that the esports scene is taking in order to maintain a good direction |
| 03:26.27 | Cide | and not let idiots ruin it for everyone |
| 03:27.11 | ZorbaGama | so why don't they run their own official one instead of trying to ban all other sports? |
| 03:27.20 | ZorbaGama | like *every other major sport on the planet* does |
| 03:27.20 | Cide | they're not banning all other sports |
| 03:27.33 | Cide | they're saying they can disallow companies from performing esports activities if undesired |
| 03:27.38 | ZorbaGama | really. I'm going to start my own international SC2 league without permission from Blizzard, then. how well do you think that will go over? |
| 03:27.43 | Cide | and they will likely have their own official partner |
| 03:27.52 | Cide | ZorbaGama, no idea? |
| 03:27.58 | SeanK | anyone? |
| 03:28.00 | Corrodias | B& |
| 03:28.11 | ZorbaGama | gonna guess "pretty badly". |
| 03:28.16 | Cide | that's right |
| 03:28.18 | Cide | that's your guess |
| 03:28.21 | Cide | and you're basing it on what? |
| 03:28.31 | ZorbaGama | seank, it's probably collecting junk because you're putting junk into it elsewhere :) |
| 03:28.54 | ZorbaGama | cide, the fact that they found it necessary to make that rule. If they weren't planning to enforce it, they wouldn'te have made it. |
| 03:29.07 | Cide | I already stated above why they *need* to have the rule. |
| 03:29.11 | ZorbaGama | And yes, I count "banning kespa's tournament" as abuse. If Blizzard can do a better job, they should just do so. |
| 03:29.12 | ZorbaGama | No, they don't. |
| 03:29.17 | ZorbaGama | I could make an awful football league |
| 03:29.25 | ZorbaGama | and the NFL couldn't stop me. It wouldn't somehow pervert football. |
| 03:29.35 | Cide | football is not a commercial game developed by a company for profit. |
| 03:29.39 | Cide | it's a concept. |
| 03:29.47 | Cide | you are free to make an rts and make your own league. |
| 03:29.50 | SeanK | I've search all my code the only two entries are IsEnabled and Log but I have every values I have ever used in all previous versions of the addon and they won't go away. |
| 03:30.11 | ZorbaGama | I find the difference rather irrelevant, personally. The only difference is that Blizzard gets *even more* money from Starcraft players than the NFL gets from football players. :P |
| 03:30.22 | Cide | if you think blizzard is evil for wanting to control the abuse that is kespa, then don't buy the game. the community will be a happier and less paranoid place. |
| 03:30.52 | ZorbaGama | I think blizzard is evil for that, and many other things. I plan to buy the game because I want to play the game. Neither of those things will prevent me from stating my opinions of Blizzard's increasing obsession with control, however. |
| 03:31.16 | ZorbaGama | seank, try replacing your UI mod with just SOCD = {};, see if that clears the whole thing |
| 03:31.20 | Cide | I'm sure NFL wouldn't like you to start your own underground league within the NFL and make tons of money off it |
| 03:31.26 | ZorbaGama | is your SOCD local, maybe? |
| 03:31.32 | Corrodias | NFL is evil! |
| 03:31.34 | Cide | I bet you would be banninated pretty quickly if something like that was to arise |
| 03:31.36 | ZorbaGama | cide, I don't even know what "within the NFL" would mean |
| 03:31.43 | Cide | me neither |
| 03:31.48 | Cide | that's why your analogy is bad |
| 03:31.53 | ZorbaGama | then why are you bringing up conceptual nonentities? :P |
| 03:32.06 | Cide | you brought up the concept of football versus the game that is sc2 |
| 03:32.15 | ZorbaGama | my point is that people running crappy football tournaments doesn't hurt football in general |
| 03:32.23 | ZorbaGama | similarly, people running crappy SC2 tournaments doesn't hurt SC2 |
| 03:32.37 | ZorbaGama | people running crappy SSBB tournaments doesn't hurt SSBB |
| 03:32.45 | Shirik | wtf is SSBB |
| 03:32.53 | ZorbaGama | people running crappy WC3 tournaments doesn't hurt WC3, people running crappy DOTA tournamnets absolutely doesn't hurt WC3 |
| 03:32.55 | Corrodias | smash brawl etc |
| 03:32.59 | ZorbaGama | super smash brothers brawl |
| 03:33.07 | Corrodias | bad design hurts that game |
| 03:33.19 | Cide | if all football games that were shown on TV were extremely shitty games where the referees were biased and people were punching each other in the face, I bet NFL wouldn't be happy about the reputation the sport was getting |
| 03:33.22 | ZorbaGama | and yet, if blizzard was in charge of all those products, they'd be banning those. |
| 03:33.31 | ZorbaGama | cide, yeah, and you know why that doesn't happen? |
| 03:33.35 | ZorbaGama | because the NFL provides a good product |
| 03:33.36 | Cide | yeah? |
| 03:33.40 | ZorbaGama | just like Blizzard could do |
| 03:33.43 | Cide | nfl doesn't provide a product |
| 03:33.45 | ZorbaGama | so Blizzard should *do that* |
| 03:33.48 | Kraps | ~wowalert |
| 03:33.57 | purl | http://launcher.worldofwarcraft.com/alert (US); http://status.wow-europe.com/en/alert (EU) [NB: URL goes to 404 unless there's an active alert] |
| 03:33.57 | ZorbaGama | yes they do, they provide football games :P |
| 03:33.57 | Corrodias | Cide: it does; it organizes the teams |
| 03:34.00 | Corrodias | maintains rules, etc |
| 03:34.01 | Cide | fair enough |
| 03:34.02 | Cide | blizzard does provide a good product also |
| 03:34.03 | alestane | They provide regulation of football games. |
| 03:34.24 | Cide | and just because it hasn't happened for football doesn't mean it COULDN'T |
| 03:34.28 | ZorbaGama | Yes. And if Blizzard were to compete with kwhatever, then they'd probably rapidly relegate kwhatever into obscurity |
| 03:34.33 | Cide | because you are hell-bent on talking pure theories so let's do that |
| 03:34.34 | ZorbaGama | *without* having to fling legal muscle around. |
| 03:34.56 | Kraps | kwhatever |
| 03:35.05 | ZorbaGama | yeah I scrolled up and didn't see the name |
| 03:35.09 | ZorbaGama | I think it started with a k :) |
| 03:35.20 | Corrodias | Kraps. |
| 03:35.29 | Cide | well, you are free to argue that it's an unnecessary precaution |
| 03:35.30 | Corrodias | i'm pretty sure it was kraps. |
| 03:35.34 | Kraps | nooooo |
| 03:35.45 | alestane | So, is your opinion then that Blizzard should run its own tournaments or sponsorships while allowing other companies to run theirs in complete independence, and trust that they will inherently do a better job of it than the other guys, so the other guys will just naturally go out of business? |
| 03:35.54 | Kraps | i have no dog in this fight |
| 03:35.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Transformer (~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 03:36.00 | SeanK | Nope. That didn't even work. My entire addon is one line long SOCD = {}; and I still have a boatload of crap in the table. |
| 03:36.14 | ZorbaGama | alestane, pretty much, yep. I mean, if they don't do a better job, then they don't really deserve to take over, do they? |
| 03:36.45 | Cide | doing the better job doesn't perfectly correlate with popularity |
| 03:36.47 | ZorbaGama | hell if they can't beat a company running a tournament with *their own game*, then the other company's probably helping them financially more than Blizzard is |
| 03:36.52 | alestane | Here's a different point, though: what if Blizzard doesn't want to be bothered themselves with the logistics of organizing an e-sport? |
| 03:37.09 | ZorbaGama | alestane, then they can hire someone appropriate who does want to be |
| 03:37.17 | Cide | they did; kespa |
| 03:37.18 | alestane | Exactly. |
| 03:37.25 | Cide | turns out it was a bad choice |
| 03:37.37 | Cide | and now kespa is (was?) popular and they need to change partner |
| 03:37.38 | alestane | They would like the ability to sever that relationship. |
| 03:37.40 | ZorbaGama | Sure. So, what, your argument is "what if Blizzard wants to let the competitive scene die entirely"? |
| 03:37.44 | Corrodias | so now they want to litigate instead of trying again |
| 03:37.50 | ZorbaGama | If they don't already have that ability, they're fucking idiots :P |
| 03:38.02 | mikma | http://prism.mozillalabs.com/ |
| 03:38.04 | ZorbaGama | the contract should have left the tournment name with Blizzard's ownership |
| 03:38.13 | Corrodias | if kespa is so shitty, shouldn't it be pretty easy to replace? |
| 03:38.14 | ZorbaGama | so they could just kick out kespa and hire someone new to run the "same" tournament |
| 03:38.15 | Cide | it's not a tournament |
| 03:38.25 | Cide | it's a league |
| 03:38.26 | alestane | But even if they discontinue the business relationship, without a clause like the one you describe, KESPA can go right on running its own events. |
| 03:38.28 | Cide | televised matches |
| 03:38.41 | ZorbaGama | alestance, and why is that a problem? |
| 03:38.53 | Cide | because kespa handled it horribly, like I stated before |
| 03:38.55 | SeanK | So how do saved varaibles work if you can;t ever clear them? |
| 03:39.05 | Corrodias | apparently kespa will continue to have the larger playerbase |
| 03:39.07 | ZorbaGama | seank, you can, but I think you're doing something weird and wrong here. |
| 03:39.08 | alestane | KESPA has much of the repute and will attract most of the attention. |
| 03:39.09 | Corrodias | despite being shitty |
| 03:39.11 | ZorbaGama | Sorry. :) |
| 03:39.13 | Cide | horribly from a player standpoint |
| 03:39.23 | Cide | from an outside perspective there's likely nothing bad going on |
| 03:39.29 | Cide | and hence it will keep its popularity |
| 03:39.31 | Dagmar | Saved variables can be cleared |
| 03:39.47 | Cide | anyway this discussion is stupid and it's almost 6am |
| 03:39.53 | Cide | enjoy your lack of sc2 if you please |
| 03:40.06 | ZorbaGama | you seem to have missed the part where I already said I was buying it :P |
| 03:40.12 | Cide | I'm going to reserve judgement until blizzard does something bad |
| 03:40.19 | Cide | which I strongly doubt they will |
| 03:40.23 | alestane | It's not completely dissimilar to cases I've heard about where, for instance, a hairdresser was renting chair time in a particular salon, serving the salon's clients. After she ended her relationship with the salon, she called up the clients she had helped while working there and encouraged them to make appointments with her separately. |
| 03:40.26 | ZorbaGama | so'm I, but that already happened months ago, so :) |
| 03:40.44 | alestane | The salon took her to court and hung her out to dry. |
| 03:41.05 | Cide | damn the salon for wanting to maintain their business |
| 03:41.10 | alestane | There were agreements etc. in place that allowed them to do that. |
| 03:41.11 | Cide | corrupt piece of shit company |
| 03:41.28 | Cide | g'night |
| 03:41.36 | alestane | Blizzard is constructing a basis to protect their interests. |
| 03:41.50 | alestane | It is not necessarily magnanimous. |
| 03:41.58 | alestane | But it is completely understandable. |
| 03:42.34 | ZorbaGama | see, I disagree. I think this is actually a bad idea from Blizzard's point of view |
| 03:42.52 | ZorbaGama | I'm not arguing that they can't do it. I'm just arguing that they shouldn't, both from a moral point of view and from a financial one. I think it's a mistake. |
| 03:42.52 | *** join/#wowuidev eidolarr (~zls@pool-108-2-197-174.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 03:42.56 | alestane | Unfortunately, when you operate on the scale they do, "We're just going to trust that everyone wants to be nice and mutually prosperous" simply doesn't work in the long run. |
| 03:43.04 | eidolarr | what's a good source for open source projects, if you want to contribute to something? |
| 03:43.05 | ZorbaGama | I'm not saying that at all, and never have been. |
| 03:43.26 | ZorbaGama | eidolarr, sourceforge, maybe? you'd be better off finding a project that you wanted to contribute to and going from there :) |
| 03:43.34 | alestane | You seem to be taking the "There's no such thing as bad publicity" approach. |
| 03:43.56 | eidolarr | ZorbaGama: my friend is a big noob and wants to work on something fun, I did check sourceforge |
| 03:43.56 | Kraps | mikma: chrome has that functionality already |
| 03:44.08 | ZorbaGama | Approximately, yes. Or more accurately, that things like this have a huge chilling effect that overwhelms any minor good |
| 03:44.22 | ZorbaGama | and that what they're trying to accomplish could be almost as easily accomplished by just providing a better model of what they want. |
| 03:44.25 | mikma | kraps: yeah, the page where i got that said the exact same thing. but that's for firepox! |
| 03:45.06 | Kraps | mikma: dont hate :( |
| 03:45.13 | alestane | The chief difficulty with that approach is that there IS such a thing as bad press, and it frequently attaches itself to targets it doesn't rationally belong to. |
| 03:45.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Andre@hus110a.bobbnet.com) |
| 03:45.35 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 03:46.16 | alestane | Some of the challenges that Blizzard has faced with the add-on community are similar: many users hold Blizzard responsible for their play experience, even when the things damaging that play experience are not Blizzard's direct responsibility. |
| 03:46.42 | Corrodias | good point |
| 03:47.04 | alestane | So, Blizzard decided it was necessary to establish a precedent that would allow them to take action on those cases if they felt their interests were being materially damaged. |
| 03:47.18 | ZorbaGama | Yeah, I mean, I know why they're doing it. I just think it is not, in fact, in their best interest |
| 03:48.01 | ZorbaGama | they're being very controlling and I think it's a net loss to them - yes, they can squash a few people doing unfortunate things, but in the meantime they'll lose a significant number of people doing good things. And rules like this *always* lead to said rules being enforced in some very unfortunate ways. |
| 03:48.08 | Corrodias | oh, it probably is, if they can stop a shitty tournament and thereby encourage a better one to rise up |
| 03:48.29 | alestane | I think that if someone wants to pursue this venue, they will be willing to call Blizzard, establish ground rules, and collaborate. |
| 03:48.50 | eidolarr | imagine the good that could have come out of paid addons - you could get actual professional teams developing |
| 03:49.00 | ZorbaGama | I think you're underestimating starting costs. There's a big difference between someone wanting to start a large tournament, and someone starting a small tournament that accidentally becomes large |
| 03:49.05 | alestane | You seem to be saying that the existence of the rule will discourage people from making that contact in the first place. |
| 03:49.11 | ZorbaGama | a lot of really fantastic things arise unexpectedly out of nowhere. |
| 03:49.22 | ZorbaGama | Pretty much, yes. |
| 03:50.16 | ZorbaGama | Speaking as a semi-entrepreneur, every speed bump is a significant chance of things going wrong. Add just one or two more and it may make it not worthwhile to pursue. |
| 03:50.32 | ZorbaGama | I mean, let's imagine I decide I want to make a SC2 tournament |
| 03:50.54 | ZorbaGama | First step: email blizzard! "hey blizzard I want to make an SC2 tournament I don't know where or how many people or anything about it yet. Can I get permanent irrevocable permission to make it?" |
| 03:50.57 | Corrodias | no point in going far until you have permission. what if they require an attendance estimate? |
| 03:50.58 | ZorbaGama | of course they're going to say "no" |
| 03:51.12 | ZorbaGama | so what am I supposed to do, spend thousands of dollars planning before I even know if Blizzard will bother looking at my proposal? |
| 03:51.23 | ZorbaGama | Bam, chilling effect. |
| 03:51.44 | ZorbaGama | (same reason I'm not bothering with iphone games right now, for example - it's not worth the app store acceptance dance) |
| 03:52.12 | Corrodias | a fine reason, aside from all the other problems with that thing |
| 03:52.28 | ZorbaGama | eh, the iphone is technically a fine platform. |
| 03:52.36 | ZorbaGama | the only issues with it are apple's control-freakiness. :P |
| 03:53.02 | ZorbaGama | s/the iphone/starcraft 2/, s/apple/blizzard/ |
| 03:53.04 | eidolarr | and objective c |
| 03:53.05 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@c-98-251-190-189.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 03:53.11 | ZorbaGama | it supports native C and C++ |
| 03:53.15 | ZorbaGama | you only need objective C for the APIs |
| 03:53.38 | ZorbaGama | and if you can build C and C++ on it, you can build any language, if Apple lets you, which they don't, because they're control freaks ;) |
| 03:53.42 | eidolarr | that's bad enough for me |
| 03:54.17 | Kraps | also it doesnt have flash! |
| 03:54.21 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 03:54.21 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 03:54.22 | eidolarr | fuckin [[pool alloc] init] |
| 03:54.25 | Kraps | but flash sucks! |
| 03:54.32 | Kraps | so... |
| 03:54.39 | eidolarr | yeah i actually turned flash off on my phone since it crashes so damn much |
| 03:54.46 | ZorbaGama | kraps, it certainly could. it's technically powerful enough to. |
| 03:54.48 | ZorbaGama | it's just, Apple. |
| 03:55.00 | Dagmar | I remember when flash just jumped between calls on hold. |
| 03:55.01 | Kraps | ZorbaGama: i know |
| 03:55.26 | eidolarr | i thought the sc2 tourmanent rule mostly existed for sc1 as well |
| 03:55.34 | eidolarr | they just added that nonprofit has to apply too |
| 03:59.55 | Shirik | laughs at objective C |
| 04:00.14 | eidolarr | you and me both |
| 04:02.17 | ZorbaGama | yeah objective c is pretty damn painful. |
| 04:03.10 | eidolarr | it's almost like the performance of a scripting language with the syntax of C++ |
| 04:03.41 | Shirik | wtf |
| 04:03.50 | Shirik | how dare you say objective C's syntax is anything like C++ |
| 04:03.58 | eidolarr | alright alright |
| 04:04.09 | eidolarr | but it's not as hip as it could be |
| 04:04.16 | eidolarr | C++ is more on the perl side of the spectrum |
| 04:04.43 | Shirik | ... |
| 04:04.48 | Shirik | you can go die now |
| 04:04.53 | eidolarr | hahahah |
| 04:04.53 | SeanK | are arrays 1 based or 0 based? |
| 04:04.58 | eidolarr | 1 in lua |
| 04:04.59 | ZorbaGama | 1-based |
| 04:05.21 | SeanK | so table.remove(foo, 1) gets the first items from the list and not the second? |
| 04:05.29 | Shirik | setmetatable(t, {__index(t,k) return rawget(t,k-1); }); |
| 04:05.46 | Shirik | well that was completely wrong syntax |
| 04:05.47 | Shirik | but you get the idea |
| 04:05.54 | eidolarr | Shirik: wouldn't that fail for accesses? |
| 04:05.56 | Shirik | I blame objective c |
| 04:06.46 | Shirik | lua> t = {1,2,3}; setmetatable(t, {__index = function(t,k) return rawget(t,k-1); end}); print(t[0], t[1], t[2], t[3]) |
| 04:06.47 | lua_bot | Shirik: nil, 1, 2, 3 |
| 04:06.54 | Shirik | eh? |
| 04:07.05 | Shirik | oh |
| 04:07.08 | Shirik | yeah |
| 04:07.11 | Shirik | fail |
| 04:07.46 | eidolarr | i think if anythnig you wanted k+1 but even that breaks |
| 04:08.02 | SeanK | lua> t = {1,2,3}; print(table.remove(t,1)); |
| 04:08.03 | lua_bot | SeanK: 1 |
| 04:08.10 | Shirik | no |
| 04:08.12 | Shirik | you can't do it |
| 04:08.19 | Shirik | because __index is only called when the element does not exist |
| 04:08.27 | eidolarr | you would have to use some proxy tricks |
| 04:08.31 | Shirik | yes |
| 04:11.51 | SeanK | lua> t={}; table.insert(t, 1); table.insert(t, 2); table.insert(t, 3); print(table.remove(t, 1)); |
| 04:11.51 | lua_bot | SeanK: 1 |
| 04:15.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Bibi (~Bibi@unaffiliated/bibi) |
| 04:21.48 | SeanK | lua> t = {}; m = {}; m.id = 1; table.insert(t,m); m = {}; m.id = 2; table.insert(t,m); a = {}; table.insert(a,t[1]); b = t[2]; t[2] = t[1]; t[1] = b; print(a[1].id); |
| 04:21.48 | lua_bot | SeanK: 1 |
| 04:22.43 | SeanK | does lua do deep copies? |
| 04:22.56 | eidolarr | not of tables or userdata |
| 04:23.03 | eidolarr | of numbers, strings, etc yes |
| 04:23.35 | SeanK | so why does the above seem to work with luabot? it doesn't work in my code. |
| 04:25.02 | Shirik | bad eidolarr |
| 04:25.05 | Shirik | strings are never copied |
| 04:25.18 | eidolarr | well ok |
| 04:25.23 | eidolarr | but they're not references |
| 04:25.24 | Shirik | SeanK: it works with luabot because you did it differently in you code |
| 04:25.38 | Shirik | that depends on how you define reference |
| 04:25.40 | Shirik | I say they are |
| 04:25.51 | eidolarr | well i don't think in the sense he means |
| 04:26.00 | Shirik | String comparison is as easy as integer comparison BECAUSE it's a reference |
| 04:26.46 | SeanK | if it didn't deep copy then a[1].id should have been 2 |
| 04:26.57 | Shirik | SeanK, let's get something straight here |
| 04:27.02 | Shirik | there's no such thing as "copy" in Lua |
| 04:27.03 | Shirik | ever |
| 04:27.16 | Shirik | if you want to copy something, youhave to do it yourself |
| 04:27.27 | Shirik | there is only assignment, and that takes the value on the right and assigns it to the value on the left |
| 04:27.30 | SeanK | ok, so why does the above example not return 2 for a[1].id |
| 04:28.16 | eidolarr | because you switched them in t |
| 04:28.22 | eidolarr | when you say a:insert(t[1]) |
| 04:28.24 | Shirik | why do you have more than one m |
| 04:28.24 | eidolarr | t[1] is evaluated then |
| 04:28.38 | Shirik | why is your code written so randomly |
| 04:28.42 | eidolarr | it's not like as you change t, the value you've inserted in a will change to always be equal to t[1] |
| 04:28.44 | Shirik | usually when people test something they make it simple ._. |
| 04:28.56 | Shirik | OH I see what you're saying |
| 04:29.08 | Shirik | What you really should be asking is this |
| 04:29.24 | eidolarr | what other programming languages do you know? tables are like references in java and C++ |
| 04:29.27 | Shirik | lua> t = {}; m = {}; t[1] = m; m = {}; assert(m == t[1]); |
| 04:29.27 | lua_bot | Shirik: luabot:1: assertion failed! |
| 04:29.52 | eidolarr | i don't think that's what he was asking, i think he just used bad naming |
| 04:30.20 | Shirik | SeanK, let me teach you what is quite possibly the most valuable rule you'll ever learn |
| 04:30.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Heather (~pirate@75-174-90-88.bois.qwest.net) |
| 04:30.46 | Shirik | Except for the occasional counter, never use a single letter as a variable name |
| 04:32.14 | eidolarr | http://pastebin.com/HarmLRri there it is a little more legibly |
| 04:33.39 | SeanK | OK so the result[1].id should be 1 or 2? |
| 04:33.50 | eidolarr | SeanK: it doesn't deep copy in the sense that if you modify a[1] it also modifies the object pointed to initially by t[1] and later at t[2] |
| 04:33.58 | eidolarr | it doesn't mean that t[1] is evaluated every time you access a[1] |
| 04:34.29 | eidolarr | it should be 1 |
| 04:35.25 | SeanK | ok, so its like a pointer in C then. Got it |
| 04:36.04 | eidolarr | yeah logically |
| 04:36.22 | eidolarr | does gpaint really not have undo? |
| 04:38.31 | Kraps | http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=160548 |
| 04:38.58 | SeanK | I updated pastey. My code was swapping the values then swapping the ids, since it wasn't a deep copy but just a refernce the ids got changed. (http://pastebin.com/MTuj1gky) |
| 04:41.15 | eidolarr | SeanK: yeah that would do it, the 'swap them in t' part is extraneous to at that point |
| 04:41.22 | eidolarr | *too |
| 04:44.23 | Dagmar | gpaint? |
| 04:45.11 | eidolarr | it seemed to be the linux equivalent of paint, not that i looked that hard |
| 04:45.22 | Dagmar | Umm... Screw that thing. |
| 04:45.25 | Dagmar | Just download Gimp. |
| 04:45.40 | eidolarr | a lot of times gimp is like dropping a nuclear bomb on it though lol |
| 04:45.44 | Dagmar | I don't even want to think about why you felt you wanted to use anything like MS Paint |
| 04:45.52 | eidolarr | at least if you're like me and have to search through the menus every time to find what you want |
| 04:46.10 | eidolarr | sometimes a guy just wants some squares and circles and text |
| 04:46.18 | Dagmar | If you could do it in MS Paint, it's doubtful you'd need to do more htan just stare at the toolbar a moment |
| 04:46.19 | eidolarr | no layers or filters or compression ratios |
| 04:46.39 | Dagmar | Select tool rectangular or circular, select area, flood fill |
| 04:46.46 | eidolarr | also gimp takes a few seconds to start, wtffff |
| 04:47.27 | Dagmar | So use Inkscape. ;) |
| 04:48.42 | eidolarr | trying right now |
| 04:48.48 | eidolarr | 115mb sounds like a lot though |
| 04:49.09 | Dagmar | Either one of those pretty much "solves" it's respective editing problem |
| 04:49.11 | eidolarr | ah nm that's all the libs |
| 04:49.45 | eidolarr | apt-get is sweet, i wonder if windows will ever get a marketplace tool like it |
| 04:49.57 | eidolarr | i guess STEAM is sort of like that |
| 04:50.07 | WobWork | apt-get awesome |
| 04:50.11 | Dagmar | Steam is more like a single repository, but it does work well |
| 04:50.54 | eidolarr | it would also allow them the chance to solve the problem of inconsistent install/uninstall rules |
| 04:51.25 | WobWork | eidolarr: http://www.gliffy.com/ |
| 04:52.18 | eidolarr | both this and inkscape are slick, thanks |
| 04:52.33 | eidolarr | ohh damn gliffy does collaborative editing |
| 04:56.03 | Kraps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JelGcEyS6Aw&feature=channel |
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| 05:00.21 | batrick | Shirik is evil |
| 05:00.45 | Not_Shirik | yeshe is |
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| 05:04.08 | eidolarr | for a proxy, does __newindex = error suffice? |
| 05:04.39 | Shirik | sure |
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| 05:17.59 | eidolarr | why do you think blizzard decided to structure their layered region like <layeredregions> <layer level="BACKGROUND> <....> instead of just having like, an element with an attribute layer="BACKGROUND" |
| 05:18.47 | Iriel | Because it's a property OF the layer, not an element within th elayer |
| 05:18.56 | Iriel | Though, given that, I think anchors are done wierdly |
| 05:18.59 | Iriel | (and sizes) |
| 05:19.47 | eidolarr | I mean, why not just list the elements and have them specify their layer as an attribute? |
| 05:20.04 | eidolarr | oh i see you got that |
| 05:20.28 | eidolarr | i'm not sure what you mean about anchors, but it seems strange to me given that textures/fontstrings have :SetDrawLayer like it was any other attribute |
| 05:20.36 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI (~chatzilla@ip68-5-216-156.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 05:20.38 | Iriel | I think the goal was to reflect the rendering structure of the frame |
| 05:20.45 | Iriel | each layer is rendered in the same pass |
| 05:21.11 | Iriel | when you call SetDrawLayer on a region it moves it from one layer to another |
| 05:21.41 | Iriel | (I'm not sure what the actual code implementation is, whether it's crazy linked lists or some other more array-like structure) |
| 05:22.18 | eidolarr | i'm writing a little tool to build frames based on lua tables, and i've been trying to mirror the xml's structure, but in lua |
| 05:22.28 | eidolarr | but the layeredregion stuff seems so unnecessarily verbose |
| 05:22.54 | Iriel | You can set the layer when you create the region |
| 05:23.05 | Iriel | or is that not the verbose bit? |
| 05:23.13 | eidolarr | I mean, if I had a table describing a frame |
| 05:23.22 | eidolarr | right now I have fields like name, type, scale, etc |
| 05:23.57 | eidolarr | if i did it "the xml way" I would have "layeredregions = { ["background"] = { {<texture one>}, {>texture 2>}} |
| 05:24.13 | eidolarr | as oppose to just having the layer be a value in the texture table |
| 05:24.27 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI (~chatzilla@ip68-5-216-156.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 05:24.58 | Iriel | or you could do { regions = { layer= "BACKGROUND", {texture one}, {texture two} } } |
| 05:25.34 | Iriel | no real reason to be unnecessarily verbose in your choice of table structure |
| 05:26.22 | Iriel | Though I guess they're about the same effort |
| 05:26.55 | Iriel | justw ith shorter names 8-) |
| 05:28.16 | Iriel | I dont think there's anything wrong with sticking layer = "blah" on each thing, but if you consider that many blizzard frames start with 4 or more Textures on the exact same draw layer, and maybe 4 FontStrings on another draw layer, there's an advantage to specifying the layer at the 'group' leven |
| 05:28.42 | eidolarr | i see |
| 05:28.49 | Iriel | Actually, you could do.. |
| 05:28.57 | eidolarr | i don't see why you couldn't order them by layer anyway |
| 05:29.06 | eidolarr | even without the {layer = ... } |
| 05:29.08 | eidolarr | maybe leave a comment |
| 05:29.17 | eidolarr | it seems like a substantial amount of extra text for the uncommon case |
| 05:29.20 | Iriel | regions = { "BACKGROUND", { tex 1], {tex 2}. {tex 3}, "BORDER", {tex 4}, "ARTWORK", {fontstring 1} } |
| 05:29.47 | eidolarr | hahaha that is a little cavalier |
| 05:32.07 | eidolarr | that is probably the best of both worlds but the least immediately obvious |
| 05:32.44 | Kraps | im not sure why picasa keeps downloading stuff already downloaded |
| 05:33.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Antiarc (~Antiarc@ip70-190-192-186.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 05:35.58 | Jerub | who works on wowwiki here? |
| 05:36.35 | eidolarr | as in contributes? |
| 05:37.04 | Kraps | http://all-thats-interesting.tumblr.com/post/706923431/mickey-mouse-becomes-a-speed-dealer |
| 05:37.52 | Jerub | let me rephrase that to be a more useful question. |
| 05:38.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Lothaer (~jamiecook@122.49.144.117) |
| 05:38.22 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lothaer] by ChanServ |
| 05:38.22 | Jerub | i'm using my mobile phone to read wowwiki.com, and i'm seeing adds for wowgold-us.com, anyone here able to do anything about it? |
| 05:39.12 | Cairenn | #wowwiki |
| 05:39.15 | Jerub | ty |
| 05:39.25 | Cairenn | welcome |
| 05:39.54 | Lothaer | hey guys just letting you all know that i recently recieved a email from a obvious account hacker difference is he wasnt saying goto your account and bla bla bla it was like he was advertising a addon and the download image was what would send you to the website etc |
| 05:39.57 | Lothaer | just be wanrned |
| 05:40.03 | Lothaer | warned* |
| 05:40.21 | Cairenn | thanks Lothaer |
| 05:40.27 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (smcn@c-174-52-104-121.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 05:40.53 | Arrowmaster | download image? you allow random emails to be rendered in html? |
| 05:40.54 | Lothaer | nps ill see if i can save the email (w/o the links) and ill send it to you ok |
| 05:41.11 | Lothaer | noscript :P |
| 05:41.31 | Arrowmaster | how does noscript help |
| 05:41.34 | Cairenn | yep |
| 05:42.20 | Lothaer | dosnt load unless i click it |
| 05:43.12 | Arrowmaster | still loads images and lets the trackers know you opened it |
| 05:46.22 | Lothaer | according to the email the addon name is barkeep |
| 05:47.02 | Lothaer | might wanna let Platykurtic that someone is scamming using his addons name |
| 05:47.11 | Cairenn | yeah, already on it :) |
| 05:47.28 | Lothaer | kk thanks |
| 05:48.27 | Cairenn | did you send to me? |
| 05:49.16 | Cairenn | cairenn@mmoui.com |
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| 06:00.40 | Lothaer | well guys and gals i gotta goto work, ishnu dal dieb. |
| 06:01.37 | Cairenn | ciao Lothaer |
| 06:12.15 | eidolarr | is there an options list template more general than OptionsFrameListTemplate |
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| 06:42.35 | Thunder_Child | sits down to some congealed soup like product |
| 06:46.58 | Fisker | i'm sick |
| 06:47.02 | Fisker | veeeeery sick |
| 06:47.50 | ReAn | stop licking doorknobs |
| 06:50.31 | Thunder_Child | ReAn: you would be surprised at how fun that is |
| 06:50.48 | ReAn | i dunno, i generally try to NOT lick nobs at the door |
| 06:50.54 | ReAn | :) |
| 06:51.14 | ReAn | i should probably stop leveling my druid and continue work on the addon of mine that hasn't seen an update since august 09' |
| 06:51.52 | NightHawkTheSane | what, is it broken? |
| 06:52.02 | ReAn | some report that it is |
| 06:52.04 | ReAn | but |
| 06:52.08 | ReAn | i can't reproduce |
| 06:52.23 | Thunder_Child | ReAn: lick a knob infront of someone, watch their expression, revel. |
| 06:52.24 | ReAn | i know one thing is broken, but it's minor and it doesn't cause a lua error |
| 06:52.44 | Dagmar | So um... If you're out by the Zoram strand... It seems somewhat unfortunate you can talk to the quest NPCs summoned by the other faction. |
| 06:52.50 | Dagmar | Since they run right off. |
| 06:53.19 | ReAn | i should prolly level my inscription |
| 06:53.30 | ReAn | my scroll of town or whatever keeps taking me to random places :) |
| 06:53.33 | ReAn | i need the upgraded one |
| 06:53.35 | NightHawkTheSane | lately i dont update my addons unless they break for me, or i get a reliable report that they break for others. |
| 06:53.44 | ReAn | well |
| 06:53.44 | NightHawkTheSane | i have a few that i haven't touched in a year and a half :P |
| 06:53.50 | ReAn | my addon could use some feature updates too |
| 06:53.54 | ReAn | i've already fixed the minor bug |
| 06:53.57 | ReAn | and updated the TOC |
| 06:54.05 | ReAn | since i haven't released since 30200 |
| 06:54.31 | Thunder_Child | the first and only time i use a scroll of recall it randomed me to the exact place i wanted to go |
| 06:54.41 | ReAn | lol |
| 06:54.50 | Dagmar | Wormhole generator is dodgier |
| 06:54.52 | ReAn | mine keeps putting me in theramore |
| 06:55.03 | Thunder_Child | as it happens, thats where i wanted to go |
| 06:55.18 | eidolarr | in xml, do you have to have the declaration of a frame before you reference it by name in other declarations for things like anchoring? |
| 06:57.45 | NightHawkTheSane | is the 3.3.5 ptr still up? |
| 06:58.18 | ReAn | i want 3.3.5 so when im on my other toons testing mods i can bullshit to my friends :( |
| 06:58.50 | Thunder_Child | NightHawkTheSane: you cant wait 12 hours? |
| 06:59.20 | NightHawkTheSane | Thunder_Child: do we know for certain it's tomorrow? But that wasn't why I asked. |
| 06:59.40 | NightHawkTheSane | I realized I haven't tested my addons in 3.3.5, and it occured to me that perhaps i ought to before it went live. |
| 06:59.45 | Thunder_Child | NightHawkTheSane: Bibi has a 99% sure gut feeling |
| 07:00.00 | NightHawkTheSane | so, 60% chance? |
| 07:00.46 | Dagmar | Don't think it's tomorrow. |
| 07:01.03 | Thunder_Child | so much for checking it out, the launcher is patching |
| 07:01.51 | NightHawkTheSane | although if it were to be released tomorrow, the ptr would be down now, yeah? |
| 07:02.04 | Thunder_Child | not always |
| 07:02.18 | Thunder_Child | the alert is 3am downtime |
| 07:03.33 | Thunder_Child | *sigh* blizz fails |
| 07:04.26 | Dagmar | 12124 to 12128 on the PTR |
| 07:04.31 | Dagmar | Not exactly a large patch |
| 07:04.56 | Thunder_Child | it's making me patch the alpha |
| 07:04.58 | Thunder_Child | 1gb is |
| 07:05.04 | Dagmar | Next week mebbe barring weird provisioning issues at Blizz DCs |
| 07:05.41 | Thunder_Child | isnt 3am unusual? hasnt it been 5am lately? |
| 07:06.17 | Fisker | i'm so very sick Thunder_Child |
| 07:06.18 | zenzio | don't know about the US realms, I think EU is usually 3 to however long |
| 07:06.33 | Dagmar | US has generally been 3am afaik |
| 07:07.12 | Dagmar | It doesn't really mean anything one way or the other unless they talk about an extra-long downtime or something |
| 07:08.05 | Dagmar | ...then it still doesn't mean much. |
| 07:12.07 | Fisker | zomg patch tomorrow? |
| 07:13.28 | Dagmar | not likely |
| 07:25.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (~Vilkku@86-60-145-155-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi) |
| 07:31.18 | ReAn | hrm, need a good lua error catcher addon |
| 07:31.22 | ReAn | what's good these days? |
| 07:32.31 | krka | pcall! |
| 07:35.01 | Fisker | i'm very sick |
| 07:36.28 | Thunder_Child | there is a story you should read Fisker, it's called 'the boy who cried wolf' |
| 07:37.00 | Fisker | is it about a boy who keeps getting attack by wolves but noone helps even though he keep crying wolf? |
| 07:37.05 | Fisker | attacked* |
| 07:37.15 | Thunder_Child | no |
| 07:39.03 | Fisker | oh |
| 07:39.09 | Fisker | well what relevance does it have to me then? |
| 07:39.26 | Thunder_Child | there is a moral to the story |
| 07:39.33 | Thunder_Child | that applies to you |
| 07:40.05 | Fisker | what moral is that? |
| 07:40.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (~kalroth@mail1.retailplanit.com) |
| 07:40.48 | Fisker | mr. Kalroth |
| 07:40.51 | Fisker | give me a kiss |
| 07:40.56 | Thunder_Child | read the story. find out. |
| 07:41.00 | Kalroth | ./shy |
| 07:41.09 | Kalroth | not in public, Fisker |
| 07:41.22 | Kalroth | Thunder_Child will just get jealous |
| 07:42.18 | Thunder_Child | is a green eyed devil |
| 07:43.38 | Kalroth | dreamy, green eye ones are the best |
| 07:46.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Cairenn (~Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
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| 07:49.49 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 07:49.58 | Jerub | yay holiday boss |
| 07:50.01 | Jerub | yay free emblems |
| 08:02.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@dsl4E5C042D.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 08:02.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 08:09.00 | *** join/#wowuidev vangual_ (d5ada582@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.173.165.130) |
| 08:10.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 08:42.41 | Arrowmaster | so 1 month old game for $9.99, im getting a copy http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=264694 |
| 08:43.47 | Kalroth | fucking coupons and it's for consoles only |
| 08:44.48 | Arrowmaster | there is a pc version but i heard it sucks |
| 08:47.42 | ReAn | \o/ updated my mod finally |
| 08:53.56 | *** join/#wowuidev robokitty (~robotusch@50A2E67F.flatrate.dk) |
| 09:12.39 | Fisker | you Arrowmaster |
| 09:18.40 | Fisker | robokitty |
| 09:18.42 | Fisker | msnkitty |
| 09:30.22 | zenzio | "NB: so far, on Windows, VideoLAN is quite sad to be forced to recommend nVidia® GPU, until ATI® fixes their drivers on Windows, and until VLC developer get access to some Intel® hardware supporting GPU decoding." |
| 09:31.01 | zenzio | and they support lua extensions now o_O |
| 09:38.02 | Fisker | omg you're killing me zenzio |
| 09:38.04 | Fisker | vlc sucks |
| 09:43.44 | theorbtwo | It's software. Of course it sucks. Worse, it's graphics software. |
| 09:44.28 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 09:50.49 | Fisker | i will fuck you up theorbtwo |
| 09:54.09 | Torhal | Fisker: Rosebud. |
| 09:54.34 | Fisker | Torhal |
| 09:54.41 | Fisker | Torhal |
| 09:54.44 | Fisker | Fisker |
| 09:54.47 | Fisker | foxlit |
| 09:55.20 | Torhal | installs an RS-232 jack at the base of Fisker's skull. |
| 09:56.19 | Fisker | installs a penis |
| 09:57.14 | Torhal | Oh. no you didn't. |
| 09:58.56 | theorbtwo | Well, that'll make it annoying to stand behind him in an elevator. |
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| 10:18.59 | Jerub | Adys: there's a horrible mispelling in the midsummer article on mmo-champ |
| 10:19.12 | Jerub | Adys: Apparently you get a 'Satchet' of Chilled Goods. |
| 10:21.01 | Cairenn | yeah, that should either be satchel or sachet, I'd say? |
| 10:21.12 | Cairenn | since either could be correct |
| 10:21.33 | Jerub | It's Satchel |
| 10:21.47 | Jerub | I thought it was a witty pun when i first read mmo-champ |
| 10:21.56 | Jerub | but it turns out it's a typographical error ;) |
| 10:22.57 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@d86-33-7-18.cust.tele2.at) |
| 10:29.48 | Fisker | mikma |
| 10:29.51 | Fisker | link me a mp3 |
| 10:31.37 | *** join/#wowuidev zenzio (~zenzio__@85.19.77.194) |
| 10:35.26 | Fisker | hey zenzio |
| 10:41.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Wella (5ec028a9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.192.40.169) |
| 10:41.08 | Wella | Ello der |
| 10:41.26 | Wella | Quicky... how can I edit the chat font size below 12? <_< |
| 10:42.27 | Spejnar | I am MT <3 |
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| 10:51.21 | sylvanaar_atwork | good morning |
| 10:53.07 | Fisker | nah sylvanaar |
| 10:54.19 | Wella | aanyone? :< |
| 10:54.40 | sylvanaar_atwork | i just watched "something something something darkside" |
| 10:54.50 | sylvanaar_atwork | it was funny |
| 10:56.43 | sylvanaar_atwork | iphone 4 in 2 days....who is getting one? |
| 10:57.02 | Wella | What does it do better? |
| 10:57.11 | foxlit | more like in two months |
| 10:57.19 | foxlit | If they even stock them. |
| 10:57.20 | Spejnar | I have a computer, no need for an overpriced phone |
| 10:57.30 | sylvanaar_atwork | i get mine on the 24th |
| 10:57.59 | sylvanaar_atwork | wanted to know who else is getting theirs |
| 10:58.29 | Wella | Tbh iPhones are just toys lol |
| 10:59.40 | olafski | I'll save up for a new xbox instead +) |
| 10:59.52 | Wella | Getting mh3 today |
| 10:59.56 | foxlit | why would you wan a *new* xbox, though? :) |
| 11:00.02 | foxlit | What happened to the old one? |
| 11:00.08 | olafski | it's still there |
| 11:00.14 | sylvanaar_atwork | whats is called rsod? |
| 11:00.14 | olafski | new one is quieter ;) |
| 11:00.44 | olafski | rrod, but no |
| 11:00.48 | sylvanaar_atwork | oh rrod |
| 11:00.52 | sylvanaar_atwork | red ring |
| 11:01.04 | olafski | yeah.. sometimes also called red lights of death |
| 11:01.18 | vangual_ | it's an rlod now, only a red led instead of the ring in the new one |
| 11:01.35 | zenzio | "Dedicated servers key to console MMO success, says APB creator" - wouldn't non-dedicated servers just make it a persistent world, not an MMO? o_O |
| 11:01.38 | sylvanaar_atwork | man on that movie I watched, some stormtrooper was bakining cookies that looked like the deathstar |
| 11:02.00 | olafski | oh.. mine had 3 red lights ;) |
| 11:02.08 | zenzio | "dude, what happened to Eastern Kingdoms?" "I think Steve is rebooting" |
| 11:02.09 | sylvanaar_atwork | s/bakini/bak/ |
| 11:02.12 | foxlit | zenzio: looks like meaningless statement is meaningless. |
| 11:02.17 | sylvanaar_atwork | close enough |
| 11:02.56 | sylvanaar_atwork | "the next big mmo will be cloud based" |
| 11:02.59 | olafski | I'd like to try APB.. seems to be multiplayer only though so I would hope that the purchase cost is not too high |
| 11:03.23 | sylvanaar_atwork | my friend says APB is going to be cool |
| 11:03.34 | sylvanaar_atwork | but everyone else I have asked has said it will suck |
| 11:03.39 | olafski | I'm not so sure yet :P |
| 11:03.54 | foxlit | Have no interest in the concept. |
| 11:04.01 | olafski | I like crackdown and it looks a bit like that :P |
| 11:04.15 | olafski | though I'm not a big fan of multiplayer games altogether.. crackdown 2 demo rocked though |
| 11:04.36 | sylvanaar_atwork | i love multiplayer co-op games |
| 11:04.37 | vangual_ | is ABP a true FPS or another dice-based shooter? |
| 11:04.42 | olafski | oh yeah I do love that sylvanaar_atwork |
| 11:04.50 | olafski | co-op is great :) |
| 11:04.56 | olafski | it's not first person I think vangual_ |
| 11:04.58 | sylvanaar_atwork | co-op on modern warfare was awesome |
| 11:05.10 | sylvanaar_atwork | i loved big brother |
| 11:05.20 | sylvanaar_atwork | or whatever the helicopter mission was called |
| 11:05.52 | Arrowmaster | the jugernaught mission with just explosives was crazy though |
| 11:06.24 | Arrowmaster | had to cheese it |
| 11:06.44 | mikma | fisker |
| 11:07.28 | mikma | http://open.spotify.com/track/2hZvkPE7YdiV0vde54iUCF |
| 11:10.02 | *** join/#wowuidev akhe (~akhe@0x573fa156.ronqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 11:10.36 | foxlit | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJReZRji7tg << I like the commentary on this. |
| 11:14.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Proditor (~Proditor@c80-217-75-197.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 11:14.15 | mikma | foxlit: jesus f. christ! i want that! |
| 11:17.19 | olafski | Contra music :P |
| 11:20.46 | sylvanaar_atwork | is 3.3.5 out yet? |
| 11:20.56 | sylvanaar_atwork | or is it this week? |
| 11:21.16 | mikma | this week in us, next week(+) in eu |
| 11:21.25 | sylvanaar_atwork | fun |
| 11:21.36 | sylvanaar_atwork | so today is patch day |
| 11:22.01 | Fisker | slaps sylvanaar_atwork around a bit with a large trout |
| 11:23.11 | *** join/#wowuidev robokitty (~robotusch@50A2E67F.flatrate.dk) |
| 11:23.30 | Fisker | hey robokitty |
| 11:23.47 | mikma | slaps fisker around |
| 11:42.47 | *** join/#wowuidev EverGod_ (~EverGod@76.178.128.249) |
| 11:43.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (~Wobin@124-170-4-80.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 11:50.22 | *** join/#wowuidev boshi23 (~chris@c-68-36-37-83.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 11:53.28 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 11:56.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (n_a@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 11:57.08 | *** join/#wowuidev zenzio_ (~zenzio__@85.19.77.194) |
| 12:07.10 | Jerub | i think this is the first wow patch i've seen that hasn't had class balance changes. |
| 12:07.49 | Kalroth | dont worry, this one got some balance changes |
| 12:07.54 | Kalroth | they're just undocumented |
| 12:13.28 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 12:29.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Warloco (~theunknow@abarelds.xs4all.nl) |
| 12:39.10 | Fisker | slaps Kalroth around a bit with a large trout |
| 12:39.13 | Fisker | slapd |
| 12:39.24 | Fisker | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:39.25 | Fisker | hohoho |
| 12:39.28 | Fisker | runs |
| 12:43.24 | *** topic/#wowuidev by Cairenn -> http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ || 3.3.x ToC: 30300 || #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting || Blizzcon 2010 Oct 22 & 23! || 3.3.5 PTR Patch Notes are up: http://cot.ag/bY6mEm || AVR broken in 3.3.5 http://cot.ag/aYo2YE || Are you going to BlizzCon? http://tinyurl.com/22kjfxu || "Shirik can only do it recursively" - Cide |
| 12:45.04 | foxlit | So you probably wanted to update the patch notes link. |
| 12:46.36 | *** join/#wowuidev lehigreck (~lehigreck@ip-80-236-234-165.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 12:49.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Proditor_ (~Proditor@c80-217-75-197.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 12:50.07 | mikma | The input box for typing chat lines is always visible. Besides pressing <Enter>, you can click on it, in order to chat. The border of the input box denotes the type of the chat: white = /say, red = /yell, green = /guild (Guild Chat), pink = /whisper, blue = /party. Light blue has been added for chatting using Battle.net. |
| 12:50.16 | mikma | oh lookie, wow gets NeonChat builtin! ;) |
| 12:50.43 | olafski | Prat has that too I think(?) |
| 12:50.50 | Kalroth | ITS A PARTY IN MY CHAT WINDOW |
| 12:51.03 | Kalroth | (and in Fiskers pants) |
| 12:51.13 | sylvanaar_atwork | oh the editbox outline? |
| 12:51.27 | olafski | yeah |
| 12:51.53 | mikma | olafski: sure it has it, after i did it hah! |
| 12:52.28 | *** topic/#wowuidev by Cairenn -> http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ || 3.3.x ToC: 30300 || #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting || 3.3.5 Patch Notes are up: http://cot.ag/aCj0Wy || AVR broken in 3.3.5 http://cot.ag/aYo2YE || Are you going to BlizzCon (Oct 22 & 23)? http://tinyurl.com/22kjfxu || "Shirik can only do it recursively" - Cide |
| 12:52.32 | olafski | hmkay..:P |
| 12:53.12 | olafski | so next week for EU, not tomorrow? :< |
| 12:53.26 | Kalroth | Yes, US is our PTR |
| 12:53.38 | olafski | good good |
| 12:53.45 | olafski | anyone going to use realid? |
| 12:53.53 | Kalroth | Nope |
| 12:53.54 | olafski | I forgot what the big catch for me against using it was |
| 12:54.04 | olafski | something about if I become realID friends with someone, _their_ friends can see my real name too |
| 12:54.10 | Kalroth | Yes |
| 12:54.12 | foxlit | No real friends :( |
| 12:54.17 | olafski | foxlit: :P |
| 12:54.24 | olafski | no but that sounds totally retarded tbh :< |
| 12:54.30 | Spejnar | if I want my friends to know about my alts, I join the guild, simple |
| 12:54.31 | Kalroth | foxlit ill be your real friend |
| 12:54.41 | olafski | I'd become realID friends with my gf, who is usually sitting next to me anyway.. but why should her friends know my real name too |
| 12:55.10 | Kalroth | olafski: at least its a good gender check before cybersex on the tram |
| 12:55.12 | olafski | presumably you need to be realID friends to be able to chat cross-game(?) |
| 12:55.18 | olafski | kalroth: :) |
| 12:56.28 | olafski | oh well, back to lego indiana jones then |
| 12:56.51 | foxlit | To be fair, I'm less concerned about the name |
| 12:57.06 | foxlit | And more concerned about persistent visibility across all characters in all games. |
| 12:58.42 | *** join/#wowuidev lehigreck (~lehigreck@85.26.33.164) |
| 13:02.46 | olafski | well, for certain people I don't mind that |
| 13:02.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Alram (~Marla@fabe.xs4all.nl) |
| 13:02.58 | *** join/#wowuidev lehigreck1 (~lehigreck@ip-80-236-221-14.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 13:04.43 | Cairenn | I think I may have the same concern as foxlit (if I'm understanding you correctly) ... sometimes, I just feel like playing all by myself, but if I have RealID enabled, I can't 'hide' from people, they'll know I'm on and not playing with them, thus potentially leading to unpleasantness |
| 13:05.49 | Kalroth | Yup |
| 13:06.02 | Kalroth | Thats why I had non-guilded alts back when I played |
| 13:06.10 | Cairenn | ditto |
| 13:06.11 | Kalroth | Sometimes you just need a break :) |
| 13:06.14 | Cairenn | Yup |
| 13:06.30 | mikma | omg omg 79 |
| 13:06.32 | zenzio_ | I think we all like playing by ourselves sometimes ;-o |
| 13:06.48 | Kalroth | At least with external instant messengers you can simply close them to fake being offline |
| 13:06.52 | Arrowmaster | most IM clients have an invisible mode thats similar to that reasoning |
| 13:07.18 | Kalroth | Oh yeah, I guess that should work |
| 13:07.25 | Grum | i dont get why blizzard doesnt do that |
| 13:07.35 | Cairenn | I learned that lesson a long time ago, back in EQ - when I was sick to death of leading the guild and just couldn't face another raid, but still wanted to blow off steam in-game .... |
| 13:07.46 | Arrowmaster | because blizzard is half assing realid |
| 13:07.53 | Kalroth | Until you get caught being online because you forgot to tick the state, Arrowmaster :) |
| 13:08.06 | Grum | well there is one thing with that you cannot hide your secret alts |
| 13:08.10 | Grum | there are people who you could even share that with |
| 13:08.21 | Grum | but the 'seeing friends of friends' is just ... beyond me |
| 13:09.31 | Kalroth | Cairenn: Yup, exactly the same for me - I lead a guild for over 5 years in WoW, so there were times where I didn't want to log because I didn't have the energy to deal with 245 people pestering me with useless details :P |
| 13:09.32 | zenzio_ | you didn't hear about the new MMO, World of Facebook? |
| 13:09.43 | Kalroth | (pestering is a harsh word, but you know what I mean) |
| 13:09.50 | Cairenn | I know exactly what you mean |
| 13:10.06 | zenzio_ | so Cairenn started this channel, where she could esca... nevremind |
| 13:10.10 | Kalroth | :D |
| 13:10.12 | Cairenn | heh |
| 13:10.15 | Grum | and then everyone found him again! |
| 13:10.24 | Kalroth | IRC is perfect, you can go afk whenever you want |
| 13:10.28 | Kalroth | it's even better than IM |
| 13:10.32 | Cairenn | ^^ |
| 13:10.34 | foxlit | I think some commenter put it best as "Nobody needs to know about my night elf dancing in Ironforge." |
| 13:10.36 | sylvanaar_atwork | zenzio_: what tier does mark zuckerberg drop |
| 13:10.58 | zenzio_ | they did away with tiers |
| 13:11.01 | foxlit | Similarly, you probably don't need your friends knowing about your AH alts that keep undercutting theirs. |
| 13:11.09 | Grum | foxlit: yeah, i'd like to be smartassy on my bank-alt .. i really dont want people know that is me ;D |
| 13:11.09 | zenzio_ | now you just break into other people's homes and take their stuff |
| 13:11.17 | sylvanaar_atwork | zenzio_: does he friend you when you down him |
| 13:11.23 | Grum | (on my normal chars i kinda have ot be nice because of my guildname ><) |
| 13:11.33 | zenzio_ | sylvanaar_atwork: probably |
| 13:13.00 | *** join/#wowuidev stew-a (~IceChat7@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 13:14.04 | Arrowmaster | i dont think blizz is willing to make the realid as complex as it needs to be though, especially since they have to write a client for it into WoW using Lua |
| 13:14.35 | mikma | are you sure they can't code it with c? |
| 13:14.47 | foxlit | Meh. Chat is chat. |
| 13:14.57 | Fisker | i never friend stalkers anyway Cairenn |
| 13:15.12 | Arrowmaster | they could but then it would have a separate UI from everything else in WoW |
| 13:15.13 | Fisker | besides the biggest issue with real id is friends of friends |
| 13:15.39 | foxlit | Do you know the people you're friending? Chances are they're already exposing your name to all of their friends on Bookspace. |
| 13:16.03 | Fisker | except i don't use bookspace |
| 13:16.10 | foxlit | Who cares? They do :) |
| 13:16.14 | Arrowmaster | bookspace? |
| 13:16.21 | foxlit | [besides, the proper parry is "I have no friends!"] |
| 13:16.59 | foxlit | Arrowmaster: the hottest thing since myface? |
| 13:17.13 | Wobin | http://www.urlesque.com/2010/06/21/last-shot-4chan/ |
| 13:17.29 | mikma | i can't understand how the "friends of friends" will bother |
| 13:17.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Hekt0 (~drhogback@ti0059a380-1428.bb.online.no) |
| 13:20.00 | foxlit | Sigh, Flash. |
| 13:20.11 | foxlit | Why must you cater to the advertisers? [/rhetorical] |
| 13:20.49 | mikma | inserts more NoScript into foxlit's browser |
| 13:21.08 | foxlit | It's not a problem, I nullroute most of the advertising hosts. |
| 13:21.42 | Fisker | i nullroute your paycheck |
| 13:21.43 | foxlit | The thing is, it allows you scripts to detect whether you've disabled local storage for flash content. |
| 13:22.23 | foxlit | So say hi to "You must enable third-party content storage, click this link" messages. |
| 13:22.35 | Wobin | Although, honestly, if you sign up for RealID and want to be not bothered, just set yourself to DND |
| 13:22.51 | Wobin | if your 'friends' still bug you. Unfriend them. |
| 13:23.34 | mikma | and you have to accept friend requests anyway |
| 13:23.52 | Kalroth | Wobin: That'll just cause needless drama |
| 13:23.59 | Wobin | what needless drama |
| 13:24.05 | Kalroth | A lot of your 'friends' thinks they're friends. |
| 13:24.10 | Wobin | if they can't respect a DND, they don't deserve to be your friend |
| 13:24.14 | Kalroth | haha |
| 13:24.18 | Kalroth | Yeah .. no. |
| 13:24.19 | Wobin | so, learn to HTFU |
| 13:24.26 | Wobin | and tell them STFU and stop bothering me |
| 13:24.28 | Fisker | we're still friends though Kalroth |
| 13:24.35 | Kalroth | Fisker: Yes we are. |
| 13:24.41 | Wobin | and ignore still works =P |
| 13:24.50 | Kalroth | Wobin: Back out in real world it doesn't work that way. :) |
| 13:24.50 | Wobin | although, you should be able to ignore an account |
| 13:24.59 | Wobin | Kalroth, what real world. This is a game =P |
| 13:25.09 | Kalroth | Wobin: Not anymore |
| 13:25.17 | mikma | wobin: honor the fuck up? |
| 13:25.34 | Wobin | In the real world, if I say to people "Please don't bother me" and they bother me, then I either tell them to bugger off, or ignore them completely |
| 13:25.49 | Wobin | I don't passively aggressively give in to their demands =P |
| 13:25.56 | Wobin | mikma, harden |
| 13:26.16 | mikma | wobin: hate |
| 13:26.19 | olafski | I still think realID has its uses.. with some people I don't really care if they can see me online.. my girlfriend understands that I prefer leveling over partying anyway ;) |
| 13:26.29 | Kalroth | Sure, but most people get butthurt when you say "Please don't bother me" :) |
| 13:26.38 | Wobin | Kalroth, then they need to learn to htfu =P |
| 13:26.46 | mikma | hate |
| 13:26.47 | Wobin | They are not the centre of the universe |
| 13:26.53 | Wobin | and the sooner they learn that, the better for the rest of us |
| 13:27.10 | olafski | sure but I don't need those people as realID friends then.. I still don't see the reasoning behind "if you add someone as realID friend, all their friends can see your name too" |
| 13:27.19 | Wobin | olafski, yeah |
| 13:27.22 | Wobin | I agree with that |
| 13:27.32 | Wobin | I hope they remove that setting |
| 13:27.37 | Wobin | although I don't think they will soon |
| 13:27.44 | Wobin | I'm just not going to adopt it til they do |
| 13:27.48 | Fisker | slaps Wobin around a bit with a large trout |
| 13:27.53 | Fisker | are we friends? |
| 13:28.03 | Wobin | You supply me with bountiful seafood |
| 13:28.11 | Wobin | How can I hate you? |
| 13:28.14 | Wobin | (boundlessly) |
| 13:28.30 | Kalroth | "<Blizzard> YOUR GOIN 2 LIKE BLIZZARDBOOK OUR WAY OR ELSE" |
| 13:28.46 | mikma | hate |
| 13:30.58 | Wobin | you're so full of hate, mikma |
| 13:31.11 | mikma | and i love it! |
| 13:32.50 | *** join/#wowuidev akhe (~akhe@0x573fa156.ronqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 13:33.17 | Kalroth | heh, from another irc channel |
| 13:33.17 | Kalroth | [15:32] <Alpha> can't wait for "xyz ninjad... some realid-friend please give me his name, so i can beat him up" x) |
| 13:34.28 | foxlit | http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/130/9/4/Doctor_Hoo_by_pu_sama.png |
| 13:39.33 | *** join/#wowuidev robokitty (~robotusch@50A2E67F.flatrate.dk) |
| 13:48.53 | Maldivia | foxlit: you're a bit late, it was linked yesterday by malreth (I think it was) :P |
| 13:49.11 | foxlit | Tennantbird is so awesome it deserves to be linked over and over :) |
| 13:49.56 | Maldivia | hehe, actually both kraps and malreth linked it :P |
| 13:50.17 | Maldivia | but I agree |
| 13:50.23 | Wobin | 1st doctor is spot on |
| 13:50.33 | Maldivia | they all are :P |
| 13:51.44 | *** join/#wowuidev malreth (~triti@dhcp-128-83-186-188.its.utexas.edu) |
| 13:51.45 | Maldivia | or well, most of them :P |
| 13:54.12 | Fisker | i hate Blizzard Wobin |
| 13:54.29 | Fisker | i hate them so very much |
| 13:54.54 | Fisker | help me hate them even more Wobin |
| 13:55.30 | mikma | hate |
| 13:56.12 | Fisker | but i hate them so very much |
| 13:56.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Mihau (~alexia@69.73.16.202) |
| 13:56.46 | Wobin | why do you need help, Fisker |
| 13:56.50 | Wobin | you're such a font of hate |
| 13:56.55 | Fisker | when they first introduced the battle.net login i kept being unable to login during US maintanence because their system is assbackwards enough to be "regionlocked" |
| 13:57.13 | Fisker | so after that we were told it wouldn't happen again, but we could ask to have it transferred |
| 13:57.41 | Fisker | Figuring they were right i just ignored it until a couple of months back when it started happening again |
| 13:57.46 | Fisker | so i asked to have it transferred to EU |
| 13:58.01 | Fisker | "HURR DURR IT DOESN'T EVER HAPPEN REQUEST DENIED'D" |
| 13:58.17 | Fisker | and then it happen a a couple of times since then |
| 13:58.19 | Fisker | and now again |
| 13:58.21 | Fisker | rage |
| 13:58.23 | Fisker | i want to login |
| 13:58.33 | stew-a | i'm in a blizz hating mood atm as well, i can't play for the next week because i use the enGB client on US realms >.< |
| 13:58.34 | mikma | denied :D |
| 13:58.40 | mikma | that's brilliant, thanks fisker |
| 13:59.09 | Maldivia | stew-a: download the US client then, you have about 4 hours till servers are up |
| 13:59.14 | stew-a | i'm trying |
| 13:59.25 | stew-a | the bloody downloader link is unavailable due to maintenance |
| 13:59.31 | Maldivia | ahh |
| 13:59.42 | Fisker | :) |
| 13:59.48 | Fisker | always so awesome |
| 13:59.52 | stew-a | https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/account/download/clients/pc/InstallWoW.exe |
| 14:00.15 | Fisker | why couldn't they just patch 3.3.5 on both realms? |
| 14:00.20 | stew-a | i dont know |
| 14:00.21 | stew-a | AND |
| 14:00.30 | Fisker | both regions of course |
| 14:00.32 | stew-a | thanks to the US only launcher patch it won't let me log into EU realms anymore |
| 14:00.38 | Fisker | ;3 |
| 14:00.42 | stew-a | without messing around trying to revert the bloody launcher back |
| 14:01.07 | foxlit | http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_kvsfb7e0f71qzx0l0o1_1280.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0RYTHV9YYQ4W5Q3HQMG2&Expires=1277301622&Signature=6E3TLTnanXHAXCCfinrRd4oKNys%3D |
| 14:01.13 | Fisker | Blizzard - Conceptually getting rid of region restrictions while arbitrarily keeping them since 2008 |
| 14:01.31 | mikma | Blizzard - Announcing cool things then removing them before release |
| 14:01.54 | mikma | "so, we have this death knight here. you can change his runes. he also has this new cool unitframe" |
| 14:02.24 | foxlit | To be fair, it was clear that the rune system wasn't going to work when it was announced. |
| 14:02.36 | Zyn- | nor is the new system |
| 14:02.39 | Zyn- | (hyuk hyuk hyuk) |
| 14:03.13 | mikma | zyn-: http://mikma.eu/nokia/Family_Guy_-_Nyah.mp3 |
| 14:03.17 | Fisker | hurry up norwegian jerks haste |
| 14:03.20 | Maldivia | stew-a: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=T1DMY5J2 |
| 14:03.34 | Maldivia | stew-a: not my upload, but the digital signature is blizzards, so should be the real deal |
| 14:03.45 | stew-a | Maldivia: thanks muchly |
| 14:03.53 | Fisker | i thought they watermarked the downloader these days? |
| 14:04.15 | Maldivia | Fisker: they did, hence the reference to the digital signature being valid :P |
| 14:04.28 | Maldivia | s/did/do/ |
| 14:05.10 | Fisker | that's not what i meant about watermark |
| 14:05.20 | Fisker | They embed some metadata to prevent piracy |
| 14:05.27 | Fisker | so it should only work from the machine it was downloaded on |
| 14:05.33 | Maldivia | no |
| 14:05.48 | Fisker | they did it with SC2 atleast :3 |
| 14:05.57 | Fisker | and as far as i know all of their classic games too |
| 14:06.13 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 14:06.50 | Fisker | slaps kd3 around a bit with a large trout |
| 14:06.54 | Fisker | i hate Blizzard |
| 14:07.07 | Fisker | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:07.17 | *** join/#wowuidev akhe (~akhe@0x573fa156.ronqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 14:07.18 | stew-a | and their cross-region patching issues |
| 14:10.01 | Kalroth | and their cross-region pathing issues, sometimes I see US gold spammer bots on my server |
| 14:11.09 | Fisker | slaps Kalroth around a bit with a large trout |
| 14:11.41 | Alram | slaps Fisker around a bit with a large dog |
| 14:12.01 | Kalroth | slaps a large Fisker around with Alram |
| 14:12.09 | Alram | . _. |
| 14:14.47 | Fisker | and Alram's smiley |
| 14:14.51 | Fisker | tell them to fix that too |
| 14:14.59 | Alram | . _.' |
| 14:15.13 | Fisker | tell them to hurry |
| 14:25.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@c-98-251-190-189.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 14:25.06 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 14:43.32 | *** join/#wowuidev akhe (~akhe@0x573fa156.ronqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 14:45.59 | Adys | kd3: ping |
| 14:46.19 | Kalroth | !ping |
| 14:46.19 | batbot | Kalroth: pong! |
| 14:46.28 | Adys | meh |
| 14:46.39 | Adys | anyone has the flashplugin .so for 64bit? |
| 14:47.56 | Adys | http://garfieldminusgarfield.net/post/725126047 |
| 14:47.59 | zenzelezz | "The login server is currently busy" :-( |
| 14:48.44 | zenzelezz | guess I could make some food |
| 14:50.56 | Fisker | that's what you get for having a us battle.net account zenzelezz |
| 14:55.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Thrae (~ircuser@generalmx-1-pt.tunnel.tserv13.ash1.ipv6.he.net) |
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| 15:00.24 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower|Work] by ChanServ |
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| 15:05.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Blia (~unknown@vno44-1-88-172-189-200.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 15:08.42 | *** join/#wowuidev zmigliozzi (~zmigliozz@74-136-192-2.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
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| 15:18.41 | zenzelezz | http://icanhascheezburger.com/2010/06/22/classics-now-with-favorite-buttons-83/ |
| 15:20.03 | Fisker | zenzelezz |
| 15:20.16 | Fisker | so do you enjoy being f'd in the a by US maintanence? |
| 15:20.26 | Fisker | maintenance* |
| 15:30.08 | mikma | us a-holes, like haste told me |
| 15:33.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Vangual (~bah@pdpc/supporter/active/vangual) |
| 15:34.26 | Adys | http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=199 |
| 15:34.51 | Spejnar | Is it possible to check for left/right mouse click in the OnClick tag or do I need to handle that in Lua? |
| 15:35.07 | jnwhiteh | "tag" |
| 15:35.10 | jnwhiteh | what\s a tag? |
| 15:35.19 | jnwhiteh | the second argument to any OnClick function is called 'button' and has that information |
| 15:36.29 | Spejnar | doubt I can do if-statements in xml, no? |
| 15:36.39 | zenzelezz | jnwhiteh: <OnClick> |
| 15:36.50 | jnwhiteh | Spejnar: they accept Lua code |
| 15:36.53 | jnwhiteh | so you can do anything you want there.. |
| 15:37.09 | Spejnar | oh, cool |
| 15:38.33 | jnwhiteh | Spejnar: imagine, for OnClick that its wrapped in function(self, button, down) end |
| 15:38.38 | jnwhiteh | and that's precisely what's going on :P |
| 15:39.21 | Spejnar | think I figured it out |
| 15:39.44 | Spejnar | well, almost |
| 15:40.56 | Spejnar | well my LeftButton works but not the else statement, hmm |
| 15:41.30 | zenzelezz | damnit login server, why are you being selectively busy :-/ |
| 15:43.23 | Spejnar | I tried "if button == "LeftButton" then func() else func2() end" |
| 15:43.29 | Spejnar | but it never actually runs the else |
| 15:43.32 | Spejnar | on rightclick that is |
| 15:44.46 | jnwhiteh | do you have it in quotes? |
| 15:45.07 | jnwhiteh | or is it just <OnClick>if button == "LeftButton" then func() else func2() end</OnClick> |
| 15:45.08 | jnwhiteh | ? |
| 15:45.08 | Spejnar | which part? The whole statement? no, only the LeftButton |
| 15:45.12 | Spejnar | yes |
| 15:45.18 | jnwhiteh | oh |
| 15:45.23 | jnwhiteh | you didn't register for clicks |
| 15:45.23 | jnwhiteh | umm |
| 15:45.31 | jnwhiteh | there's a new attribute for that. |
| 15:45.43 | Spejnar | :RegisterForClicks()? ^^ |
| 15:45.48 | Seerah | also, is your frame mouse enabled? |
| 15:45.49 | jnwhiteh | there's an XML attribute for it as well |
| 15:45.53 | jnwhiteh | Seerah: yes, if he's g etting LeftClick |
| 15:45.57 | jnwhiteh | but yes, in OnLoad |
| 15:46.01 | jnwhiteh | self:RegisterForClicks("AnyDown") |
| 15:46.32 | jnwhiteh | is it... registerClicks="AnyDown" |
| 15:46.34 | jnwhiteh | it might be =) |
| 15:47.26 | jnwhiteh | something like that =/ |
| 15:47.35 | Spejnar | There we go, cheers |
| 15:47.35 | jnwhiteh | shoudl be in the 3.3.5 schema if you have that |
| 15:47.52 | Spejnar | ehm, I have no idea, first thing I do with GUI |
| 15:48.12 | Spejnar | and it was self:RegisterForClicks("AnyDown") |
| 15:48.33 | jnwhiteh | yeah that's what I said, isn't it? =) |
| 15:48.39 | jnwhiteh | but there's another way to do it |
| 15:48.43 | jnwhiteh | where you don't need the OnLoad script |
| 15:48.48 | jnwhiteh | try commenting that out (with --) |
| 15:48.58 | jnwhiteh | and in the Button definition add registerClicks="AnyDown" |
| 15:49.04 | jnwhiteh | i.e. like <Button registerClicks="AnyDown"> |
| 15:49.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (kalroth@d40aae30.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 15:49.10 | jnwhiteh | see if that works, just so we all know |
| 15:49.12 | Spejnar | as an attribute for the button element |
| 15:49.14 | jnwhiteh | BE MY GUINEA PIG |
| 15:49.16 | jnwhiteh | indeed =) |
| 15:49.27 | Spejnar | hoho |
| 15:50.08 | Spejnar | dun seem to work :/ |
| 15:50.18 | jnwhiteh | ah, i don't recall what the name is |
| 15:50.20 | jnwhiteh | I'll find it later =) |
| 15:50.58 | jnwhiteh | I'm off =) |
| 15:51.14 | Spejnar | registerForClicks="AnyDown" |
| 15:51.17 | Spejnar | seems to work though |
| 15:51.29 | Spejnar | as an attr |
| 15:58.22 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 16:00.42 | Adys | so for those interested, futurama s6e1 leaked on tpb |
| 16:01.57 | Mihau | Probably on purpose. |
| 16:03.07 | Adys | how does that matter? |
| 16:03.51 | Spejnar | :O |
| 16:04.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (~Srosh@d056229.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 16:06.18 | nicoli_s | sweet |
| 16:06.39 | Spejnar | there we go, got it |
| 16:07.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (~chatzilla@99-92-174-69.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net) |
| 16:09.14 | nicoli_s | watched it yet adys? |
| 16:09.25 | Adys | yep |
| 16:09.32 | Adys | as awesome as usual :) |
| 16:09.53 | Spejnar | nice! |
| 16:09.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Kazie (Kazie@188.114.158.72) |
| 16:10.08 | nicoli_s | glad to hear it, gonna watch it as soon as i get off work |
| 16:12.53 | Fisker | btw |
| 16:12.57 | Fisker | eu can cheat longer than the US |
| 16:13.29 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 16:13.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (~Lunessa@WoWUIDev/Lunessa) |
| 16:13.38 | Lunessa | station |
| 16:13.42 | Cairenn | station |
| 16:14.09 | Lunessa | I |
| 16:14.12 | mikma | hate |
| 16:14.37 | Lunessa | I've patched all installs of WoW before coming to work... now I just need time off to play. :) |
| 16:15.00 | Cairenn | heh |
| 16:16.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Audible (~jon@91.196.28.244) |
| 16:17.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano_ (~elkano@pool027.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 16:17.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano_ (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 16:19.51 | Lunessa | http://www.asofterworld.com/ |
| 16:23.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Thunder_Child (~Thunder_C@WoWUIDev/PITA/TC) |
| 16:27.18 | Fisker | omg haste |
| 16:28.46 | Fisker | haha |
| 16:28.54 | Fisker | the new playstation plus is just incredibly insane |
| 16:29.06 | Fisker | Type 2: PSN games, PS1 games, Minis and "Premium Game Elements" which we assume is a fancy word for DLC. This, as you'd expect, will no longer be accessible for use after your subscription period expires, even if you downloaded it before expiry. |
| 16:29.06 | Fisker | Read more: http://www.ps3news.com/forums/ps3-online-news/sony-rolls-out-new-psn-terms-service-playstation-plus-111369.html#ixzz0rbGiG6gs |
| 16:29.14 | Fisker | i hate those fucking scriptkiddies |
| 16:29.16 | Fisker | noscriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiipt |
| 16:32.10 | Blia | can a button have movable="true" enableMouse="true" ? |
| 16:32.48 | Maldivia | ... koma koma koma koma koma kameleon |
| 16:34.02 | Blia | ? |
| 16:36.12 | Maldivia | nothing :P |
| 16:36.14 | Lunessa | http://graphjam.com/2010/06/22/funny-graphs-what-little-kids-learn-from-cinderella/ |
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| 16:56.50 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 16:57.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Lothaer (~jamiecook@122.49.144.117) |
| 16:57.53 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lothaer] by ChanServ |
| 16:58.05 | Lothaer | hey all |
| 16:58.05 | *** join/#wowuidev akhe (~akhe@0x573fa156.ronqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 16:58.13 | Jamash | heeeey |
| 16:58.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (~dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 17:00.36 | Dashkal | *sigh* Not surprised, but I'm sad they just went ahead with realid as advertised. |
| 17:00.46 | Lothaer | well good bye AVR |
| 17:00.59 | Lothaer | whys that Dashkal? |
| 17:01.35 | Dashkal | I'm annoyed. There's a set of people I'd want to play multiple games with that I don't trust with real name, email, etc. |
| 17:01.42 | Dashkal | Blizzard: stfu and don't use it |
| 17:01.56 | Lothaer | get them in vent? |
| 17:02.03 | Dashkal | Steam, actually |
| 17:02.31 | Lothaer | well persoanlly i wont be using it cause i dont know anyone that plays SC or Diablo :P |
| 17:02.45 | Lothaer | i just hope Pazza can get WIM updated asap |
| 17:02.57 | Dashkal | I don't know anybody RL who plays any blizzard games |
| 17:03.08 | Lothaer | i do :P all WoW :P |
| 17:03.12 | Lunessa | I'll be using RealID - with a very limited sub-set of folks. |
| 17:03.22 | Dashkal | Oh yeah, the new chat features are in. Sweet |
| 17:03.34 | Lothaer | does realID work crossrealm? |
| 17:03.44 | Dashkal | Crossrealm, Crossfaction, Crossgame |
| 17:03.46 | Lunessa | yes. Didn't you read the e-mail? |
| 17:03.46 | kd3 | Lothaer, yes. and cross-game, and cross-faction... |
| 17:03.57 | Cairenn | will just reiterate what she said earlier |
| 17:04.00 | Lothaer | well i may use it with 1 or 2 people |
| 17:04.10 | Dashkal | It's very much like an early version of steam. Just the damn real name bs |
| 17:04.14 | Cairenn | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:04.28 | Dashkal | Cairenn: You can't be 'offline'? |
| 17:04.33 | Dashkal | wow |
| 17:04.33 | Lothaer | lol |
| 17:04.40 | Lunessa | None of those people, nor their friends, will get access to my RealID list. |
| 17:04.55 | Lothaer | i bet everyone will try to add Cairenn :P |
| 17:05.03 | Cairenn | lol, doubt that |
| 17:05.23 | Ackis | how does this realid stuff affect me? (inactive WoW account) |
| 17:05.32 | Lothaer | can anyone access your realID if they know your email? |
| 17:05.37 | Lunessa | Ackis: Not at all - if you don't participate. |
| 17:05.53 | Ackis | Lunessa: ok so I'm not automagically enrolled then |
| 17:05.57 | Lunessa | Lothaer: It's Opt-In, but not granular. You're in or out. |
| 17:06.15 | Lothaer | well all those that are in are gonna get mass gold spam |
| 17:06.18 | Dashkal | Fortunately this isn't google buzz |
| 17:06.25 | Lunessa | And... People can't stalk you unless you ADD them. |
| 17:06.32 | Lothaer | now they dont even have to be on your server they can just goto any server and spam everyone with realID |
| 17:06.38 | Lothaer | ahh kk |
| 17:06.46 | Lothaer | so its exactly like MSN etc |
| 17:06.48 | Dashkal | They'd need your email first. |
| 17:06.50 | Lunessa | But... People can see friends of friends |
| 17:07.02 | Ackis | does this mean you can create cross-server groups for an instance now? |
| 17:07.06 | Lunessa | kind of like default Facebook settings. |
| 17:07.07 | Dashkal | no |
| 17:07.24 | Dashkal | They resist cross-instance groups. They don't want to loose the concept of a server |
| 17:07.29 | Dashkal | erm, realm |
| 17:07.41 | Dashkal | term fail. caffeine has not yet reach the blood |
| 17:07.56 | Ackis | honestly, I like the 1 "realm" mmo's more than the different server ones |
| 17:08.41 | Ackis | but I don't know if you could do it with WoW's population |
| 17:08.54 | Lunessa | We get cross-realm stuff for Randoms and Battlegrounds. They've said they've been working out the kinks for a possible cross-realm raid, but... it is a pretty monumental challenge. |
| 17:08.56 | Ackis | Stormwind Instance 1428 |
| 17:09.24 | Lunessa | So... I don't expect to see much more cross-realm stuff than you see right now. |
| 17:09.37 | Dashkal | a 10 million eve-style megaserver would just leave you lost in the crowd. There'd be as much community as there is in the lower mainland. |
| 17:10.07 | Ackis | I would argue strongly that there is very very little WoW community on servers |
| 17:10.24 | Ackis | although, this is coming from a former SWG player |
| 17:11.01 | Lunessa | Actually - with server population I get to know lots of the "regulars" that play during my play-time. I get a good feel for the various guilds, and it's possible to have a reputation of sorts. |
| 17:11.03 | Lothaer | imho they should have a log silently option with realID |
| 17:11.26 | Dashkal | I'm familiar with the 'big' figures on Maelstrom alliance. I know the major guilds on site, etc. |
| 17:11.43 | zenzelezz | anonymity in RealID will be a paid feature |
| 17:12.02 | Dashkal | sight* |
| 17:13.07 | Lothaer | tbh i dont think ill opt in for it its already far to easy to get in contact with me :P |
| 17:14.12 | eidolarr | they couldn't have thought of a cooler name than "RealID" ? |
| 17:14.31 | mikma | wasID? |
| 17:14.37 | Jamash | fakeID :D |
| 17:15.16 | Jamash | the concept is good it just needs more fine-grained levels of friendship |
| 17:16.05 | Lothaer | i wonder how long it will take for realID to be a must have to get into guilds lol |
| 17:16.08 | Lunessa | Back when I was working on the original version of AOL Instant Messenger, I used to call it "Online Stalker List" - my project manager was NOT amused. But they /did/ implement a lot of my suggested privacy features. |
| 17:16.17 | Adys | Good god |
| 17:16.32 | Adys | I logged a level 1 alt on a long lost server |
| 17:16.40 | Jamash | I want to be able to friend someone so they can see my alts on one server only, or one game only |
| 17:16.59 | Adys | on it, I have a stack of 100 broken throwing axes, and an item from noblegarden 2005 |
| 17:17.05 | Dashkal | one server is easy. just given them the 10 names :P |
| 17:17.18 | Lothaer | yeah its your friends see all your character across all servers and games |
| 17:17.45 | Jamash | it's too binary |
| 17:18.12 | Lunessa | ... 10 names ... too binary... lol |
| 17:18.14 | Dashkal | Mind you, after the live character feeds on the armory, it became clear to me that they don't believe privacy is a concern. |
| 17:18.35 | Jamash | ~lart Lunessa |
| 17:18.35 | purl | hooks into a hydrant and hoses Lunessa down |
| 17:18.38 | Lothaer | i wonder if the devs will use realID themselves? |
| 17:18.47 | Adys | !api bnet |
| 17:18.47 | lua_bot | Could not find a match for 'bnet'. |
| 17:18.48 | Lunessa | I know one or three who will. |
| 17:18.52 | Adys | jnwhiteh: ^ |
| 17:18.59 | Jamash | sure, they just won't give out their emails to anyone but other blizzard employees |
| 17:19.11 | Jamash | and real life friends |
| 17:19.49 | Jamash | I'm going to be RealID friends with 3 people |
| 17:20.01 | Jamash | maybe 4 |
| 17:20.05 | Lunessa | In some ways, RealID can replace the "small friends/family guild" social structure. |
| 17:20.16 | Ackis | Good God, William Shatner is on the short list for Governor General of Canada |
| 17:20.30 | mikma | gooooo kirk! |
| 17:20.42 | Lunessa | Ackis: He's not even a Canadian citizen, right? |
| 17:20.47 | Ackis | he is |
| 17:20.55 | Jamash | I think you mean the People's Republic of Shatneristan |
| 17:21.09 | Ackis | but that's the Queen's representative for Canada... aka no laws go into effect until the Gov. General signs them |
| 17:21.21 | Ackis | it's more of a figurehead position |
| 17:21.35 | Ackis | but still, you don't have their signature on the law, it's not valid |
| 17:21.47 | Jamash | really |
| 17:21.58 | Dashkal | that's pretty moot when if he doesn't sign, he looses his job... |
| 17:22.16 | Ackis | not necessarily, it would require a lot of changes to remove them |
| 17:22.29 | Ackis | previous ones who refused to sign had power/water cut off from their residence for example |
| 17:22.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Pytlask (c64a263b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.74.38.59) |
| 17:22.53 | Lunessa | "You say to me, 'Shatner, how can I get a sweet government job?' It's easy, dog! Just become Canadian!' " |
| 17:24.04 | Jamash | you've clearly never seen Free Enterprise |
| 17:24.32 | Lunessa | Jamash: I'm just making fun of the Shatner WoW commercials. |
| 17:24.39 | Jamash | ah |
| 17:24.47 | eidolarr | http://torrentfreak.com/ifpi-wants-google-to-stop-linking-to-the-pirate-bay-100622 |
| 17:25.24 | NightHawkTheSane | flollops. |
| 17:25.45 | Jamash | when you link to TPB you're hypertexting with satan |
| 17:26.08 | NightHawkTheSane | maybe i LIKE hypertexting with satan. |
| 17:26.17 | *** join/#wowuidev iSylvir (~iSylvir@173-21-105-177.client.mchsi.com) |
| 17:26.37 | iSylvir | Hello there. |
| 17:26.42 | Jamash | satan's awesome |
| 17:26.57 | iSylvir | @Jamash: /smite |
| 17:27.05 | Thrae | I'll say one thing and one thing only about TPB -- when their servers went down due to international mucking about, I was very annoyed to find I needed to download a 4GB Linux ISO over HTTP/FTP. |
| 17:27.20 | Jamash | @iSylvir: /evade |
| 17:27.50 | Thrae | The problem with vilifying an anarchial system is that not all of it is bad and/or morally corrupt. |
| 17:27.55 | eidolarr | I think the best plan for dealing with privacy yet is the one the film industry is trying: |
| 17:28.11 | Thrae | eidolarr: Make shitty movies no one wants to see, even pirated? |
| 17:28.12 | eidolarr | set up an easy "pay fine" website and sue people on a massive scale, offering them to settle for smaller sums like $500 |
| 17:28.20 | Jamash | I have a billion dollar idea |
| 17:28.25 | Jamash | that I'm too lazy to implement |
| 17:28.34 | eidolarr | actually, judging by the Hurt Locker incident, lots fo people want to see them |
| 17:28.45 | Jamash | which is just sell infringement indulgences |
| 17:29.13 | Jamash | set up a site like itunes where you can buy a license to torrent |
| 17:29.26 | Thrae | eidolarr: That's the problem with Oscars going to the wrong people and controversy. |
| 17:29.37 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: that's one movie out of how many? |
| 17:29.46 | Jamash | I need to torrent iron man 2 |
| 17:29.54 | Jamash | I missed the first ten minutes or so in the theater |
| 17:29.56 | iSylvir | I get terribly confused in this IRC. :( |
| 17:30.13 | NightHawkTheSane | it's caused by the lack of alcohol. |
| 17:30.13 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: ? i'm not sure what point you're making, a lot of people pirate movies, even shitty ones |
| 17:30.14 | NightHawkTheSane | have a drink |
| 17:30.19 | Thrae | Torrenting is actually a good WoW topic. |
| 17:30.30 | iSylvir | I'm mind-dead from reading about two hundred pages on how to LUA and learning absolutley nothing. /golfclap. XML, here I come. |
| 17:30.35 | Lunessa | What is this "The Hurt Locker" incident? |
| 17:30.37 | Thrae | The ISPs hate WoW. |
| 17:30.40 | Jamash | you don't need xml anymore |
| 17:30.45 | iSylvir | iDont? |
| 17:30.48 | Jamash | nope |
| 17:30.54 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: just that pointing out one movie as some proof of something isn't really valid. *shrug* |
| 17:30.55 | eidolarr | Lunessa: they are basically fixing to sue "everyone" who pirated it for ~$5k each |
| 17:31.02 | iSylvir | Jamash: Explain |
| 17:31.06 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 17:31.11 | Jamash | !api CreateFrame |
| 17:31.11 | lua_bot | CreateFrame: Creates a new Frame object (http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/CreateFrame) |
| 17:31.12 | Thrae | World of Warcraft causes massive traffic from itself, its torrents, and voice chat usage (mostly Vent). |
| 17:31.23 | iSylvir | That's nifty. |
| 17:31.42 | Jamash | see, back in wow 1.0, you couldn't dynamically create frames, so everything had to be pre-declared in XML |
| 17:31.56 | Jamash | now, you just create frames as needed with CreateFrame, and you're good |
| 17:32.04 | iSylvir | That's still a total mystery to me. Here, take a look at my thread and give a go at it. http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?p=193171#post193171 |
| 17:32.08 | Jamash | you can use XML if that's your thing, but it's not strictly necessary |
| 17:32.24 | eidolarr | i don't like the xml, it is too removed |
| 17:32.51 | iSylvir | By all means, I'd love to avoid learning XML, click the link and save me a months work of terribly boring work. |
| 17:32.52 | iSylvir | x3 |
| 17:32.58 | Thrae | iSylvir: You still see XML in addons made by authors like jnwhiteh and Shadowed because it's an easier way of managing "plugins" or "modules", not for actual Frame creation. Except when they're lazy. Especially Shadowed. |
| 17:33.11 | iSylvir | I'm lazy. |
| 17:33.26 | eidolarr | how much of a cut does (google?) take out of android marketplace sales? |
| 17:33.35 | iSylvir | 120%? |
| 17:33.40 | Thrae | iSylvir: You might consider a framework. For Unit Frames, there's oUF. |
| 17:33.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (~Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 17:33.54 | iSylvir | Thrae: I'm not making unitframes. |
| 17:34.13 | iSylvir | Thrae: I'm rather comfortable with Tukui. :) |
| 17:34.27 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: 30% iirc |
| 17:34.45 | Jamash | http://market.android.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=112622 yeah 30% |
| 17:35.02 | Thrae | eidolarr: They can afford to take less of a cut as Google already makes most of their money with profiling their users. That's how Search Engines and Free Email Services, etc. make most of their money. |
| 17:35.32 | eidolarr | do they actually do that or is it fud |
| 17:35.35 | eidolarr | with apps |
| 17:35.39 | Thrae | iSylvir: OK, so what are you trying to do? |
| 17:35.46 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: er, what? |
| 17:36.02 | eidolarr | oh you don't mean profiling with the apps themselves |
| 17:36.03 | iSylvir | Thrae: Did you read the thread? |
| 17:36.11 | Thrae | iSylvir: I don't read threads. |
| 17:36.13 | eidolarr | you mean they have enough money elsewhere |
| 17:36.29 | iSylvir | Thrae: You'd save me a GREAT deal of mindless explaining if you took a minute. |
| 17:36.39 | NightHawkTheSane | Thrae: i dont know what you mean by "less of a cut", less of a cut than what? |
| 17:36.41 | Proditor | Throwing it out there again that Gladius (arena frames) is looking for developers (hopefully I am allowed to advertise here every now and then, there really are no other good places to do this) |
| 17:36.50 | Thrae | eidolarr: I mean they make money by profiling your purchasing and usage of the apps and the phone, so they can undercut Apple easier. |
| 17:36.58 | Thrae | NightHawkTheSane: Apple |
| 17:36.59 | iSylvir | Thrae: I chuckled. |
| 17:37.02 | NightHawkTheSane | Thrae: er, Apple only takes 30% too.. |
| 17:37.07 | NightHawkTheSane | Thrae: it's the same between both |
| 17:37.09 | Jamash | lolapple |
| 17:37.14 | eidolarr | iSylvir: that is a hard first app, make a clock or something |
| 17:37.20 | eidolarr | err addon |
| 17:37.48 | Jamash | make an addon that when you log in, disables itself and reloads your ui |
| 17:37.52 | iSylvir | Eidolarr: It's a simple text readout. It's vastly easier than a clock since it only operates on buttons and a slash command. |
| 17:38.00 | iSylvir | Or at least, in my opininon. |
| 17:38.07 | Thrae | Make something easy like a Tooltip skinning and re-positioning addon. |
| 17:38.11 | Jamash | lo |
| 17:38.12 | eidolarr | your i-dont-know-how-to-write-addons opinion =) |
| 17:38.13 | Jamash | l |
| 17:38.20 | Jamash | ~fail jamash |
| 17:38.21 | purl | You suck at everything in life, jamash. I hate you because you fail. |
| 17:38.25 | *** join/#wowuidev DJJeff (~crazyjeff@S0106001e582ff89c.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 17:38.27 | DJJeff | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLq38EsMcRo |
| 17:38.30 | iSylvir | O.o |
| 17:38.39 | eidolarr | iSylvir: so you do like /strategy ragnaros and it prints out strategies? |
| 17:38.40 | DJJeff | ^^^^^^^^^^^ - iPad Running World of Warcraft! |
| 17:38.48 | Jamash | already seen iphone running wow |
| 17:38.50 | iSylvir | Eidolarr: Actually, that's a good idea. |
| 17:39.12 | Thrae | iSylvir: I read your thread. First, does it matter to you that there are already two addons which do this fairly well and you can expand upon in-game with your own notes? |
| 17:39.16 | Jamash | it's just VLC |
| 17:39.26 | Thrae | Jamash: VNC |
| 17:39.29 | jnwhiteh | Thrae: I use XML because it can be validated.. not because I can make modules with it. |
| 17:39.31 | Jamash | I mean uh, that one thing yes VNC |
| 17:39.37 | jnwhiteh | Please don't spread your non-XML agenda here =) |
| 17:39.49 | iSylvir | Eidolarr: I was thinking more typing in /BSAH, and it brings up a menu where you select, for instance, a list of raids. Clicking on one brings up a list of bosses. Click a boss, it brings up a list of modes, click a mdoe and it brings up the strategy for that mode. |
| 17:40.03 | iSylvir | Thrae: I didn't know that. I haven't seen one used anywhere. |
| 17:40.09 | eidolarr | see, that is a lot of gui elements, and gui elements suck |
| 17:40.16 | Jamash | gui elements rock |
| 17:40.22 | iSylvir | Eidolarr: ^Jamash |
| 17:40.27 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower|Work (~MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 17:40.27 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower|Work] by ChanServ |
| 17:40.31 | Thrae | jnwhiteh: I was trying to explain why big authors, like yourself, still use XML despite being pro-LUA for frame creation and manipulation. |
| 17:40.38 | iSylvir | Eidolarr: I want it to be useful. |
| 17:40.47 | eidolarr | yeah but it is tedious |
| 17:40.50 | jnwhiteh | Thrae: I'm not pro-Lua for frame creation and manipulation |
| 17:40.57 | jnwhiteh | Hence my confusion |
| 17:40.58 | iSylvir | Thrae: I don't even know who @jnwhiteh is. :( |
| 17:41.04 | jnwhiteh | I am me. |
| 17:41.14 | DJJeff | .......... |
| 17:41.19 | iSylvir | Eidolarr: I don't mind tedious. I'm here to learn. :) |
| 17:41.20 | Jamash | http://www.flickr.com/photos/62016796@N00/4501334366/sizes/o/ |
| 17:41.22 | DJJeff | a random wild canadian appears |
| 17:41.30 | Jamash | SO MUCH GUI IT'S ALL OVER YOUR SCREEN |
| 17:41.49 | Jamash | (that's a debug mode) |
| 17:41.51 | iSylvir | Lulz, too much is too much. |
| 17:42.04 | NightHawkTheSane | Jamash: hot. |
| 17:42.10 | Thrae | iSylvir: http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info13226-BossNotes.html and ... one other, hold on... |
| 17:42.25 | Jamash | I'm concerned that cata will make Learning Aid obsolete |
| 17:42.58 | eidolarr | iSylvir: I don't mean to be discouraging, but this is really sort of a solved problem, and if you're writing for the sake of learning there are more appropriate addons |
| 17:43.03 | iSylvir | Thrae: There's multiple versions of Bigwigs and Bossmods. They differ very little. If mine is a combination of the two, i'd be impressed with myself. x3 |
| 17:43.09 | iSylvir | Eidolarr: I want to make something useful for myself. |
| 17:43.44 | iSylvir | Eidolarr: It isn't nessicaraly supposed to be that 'OMG, THIS IS THE NEXT BIG THING' addon, it'll be used by myself primarly to keep my guides, and i'll release it to the public because I mideswell. |
| 17:44.00 | iSylvir | Eidolarr: If they decide to download my minimal function addon, it's their choice. <3 |
| 17:44.02 | Thrae | iSylvir: http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/boss-tactics.aspx (no version on WoWUI). Both of these mods exist to just give you in-game access to tactics for bosses. |
| 17:44.44 | iSylvir | Thrae: I like that boss tactics one. x3 |
| 17:44.48 | NightHawkTheSane | Jamash: i'd think that'd be a good thing |
| 17:44.54 | Jamash | well, yeah |
| 17:45.12 | Thrae | iSylvir: I personally like BossNotes as it condenses the tactics into something you can spam Party/Raid/Whisper with for mixed parties where some know the fight and some don't. Even if someone's explaining it over Vent, people usually thank me (non-sarcastically). |
| 17:45.15 | iSylvir | Thrae: But as I said before, I'm not making this to be revolutionary, I'm making it as 1) A beginning project, and 2) An addon that is helpful to myself. At some point, I might even expand on it. |
| 17:45.30 | jnwhiteh | iSylvir: I'm the author of Clique/TomTom/PerfectRaid/LightHeaded/etc |
| 17:45.43 | Thrae | iSylvir: btw, jnwhiteh is Cladhaire |
| 17:45.46 | iSylvir | Jnwhiteh: Excellent. I use all of those. x3 |
| 17:45.56 | jnwhiteh | eew |
| 17:45.59 | jnwhiteh | who uses PerfectRaid |
| 17:46.00 | jnwhiteh | =/ |
| 17:46.05 | iSylvir | Jnwhite: Actually, minus the perfect raid. |
| 17:46.06 | kd3 | lol |
| 17:46.10 | iSylvir | Jnwhite: I use Tukui. |
| 17:46.15 | Thunder_Child | i still use praid |
| 17:46.23 | iSylvir | Jnwhite: Lrn2Grid |
| 17:46.27 | iSylvir | Err |
| 17:46.32 | iSylvir | Thunder_Child: Lrn2Grid * |
| 17:46.35 | Thunder_Child | i havent found anything better |
| 17:46.38 | Jamash | I tried clique once but it confused me |
| 17:46.40 | Thunder_Child | i have grid as well |
| 17:46.49 | iSylvir | Jamash: I couldn't live without healing with clique. |
| 17:46.50 | Thrae | jnwhiteh: I used PerfectRaid until recently, when I started using oUF_Freebgrid. |
| 17:47.00 | Thunder_Child | but grid is only usful for my healers |
| 17:47.03 | Jamash | I just grid |
| 17:47.08 | Thunder_Child | other than that praid is better |
| 17:47.10 | iSylvir | Tukui is still the best user interface of all time. |
| 17:47.20 | jnwhiteh | I'm going to go back to Praid |
| 17:47.27 | jnwhiteh | for my warrior |
| 17:47.29 | Thrae | My UI is the best UI of all time...for me. |
| 17:47.29 | DJJeff | Lrn2 XPERL ? |
| 17:47.54 | eidolarr | in xml, if you have just <Anchor point="TOPLEFT"> that's relative to the topleft of the parent right? |
| 17:47.59 | iSylvir | No one has replied to my thread yet. /angry |
| 17:48.15 | Jamash | pfft xperl, use shadowed |
| 17:48.38 | Adys | Cairenn: for ya! http://pics.nase-bohren.de/heartcats.jpg/1277228725 |
| 17:48.48 | Cairenn | hehehe |
| 17:48.54 | Jamash | Adys: that's disgustingly cute |
| 17:48.54 | iSylvir | Loooolwin. |
| 17:49.03 | iSylvir | Adys: I want them. |
| 17:49.21 | DJJeff | ..... |
| 17:49.22 | DJJeff | http://i50.tinypic.com/2nqwgmc.jpg |
| 17:49.26 | DJJeff | my ui |
| 17:49.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (~xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 17:49.31 | Thrae | iSylvir: The way you start any big project, like some raid encounter doohickey, is starting with the basics and working up. Figure out what part of your proposed addon would be the easiest to do and work solely on that until you get it working, then work some more to get it *right*. |
| 17:49.36 | iSylvir | Lolwut. |
| 17:50.11 | DJJeff | 3.3.5 was small X_X |
| 17:50.13 | DJJeff | w t f |
| 17:50.14 | Jamash | when are they going to get rid of weapon masters |
| 17:50.21 | iSylvir | Thrae: I don't really know what I'm doing. x3 I'm looking for people to give me a 'building' block to tinker with. I work that way in real life. I couldn't build a car, but I could make it into a supercar. |
| 17:50.21 | jnwhiteh | I dont know. |
| 17:50.25 | Jamash | you should just start with all your weapon skills learned |
| 17:50.35 | Thrae | I mean if you try to make The One Addon To End All Addons you'll end up like...I must not speak its name! |
| 17:50.39 | iSylvir | Thrae: Or even a specialized advice/tutorial short post D: |
| 17:50.41 | DJJeff | servers up in 10 min? |
| 17:50.46 | iSylvir | Thrae: I'm not giving that a shot. |
| 17:50.51 | NightHawkTheSane | Jamash: i thought i remember them doing that in cata, but maybe i'm hallucinating |
| 17:50.53 | iSylvir | Thrae: I'm keeping it simple and expanding on it when I need to. |
| 17:50.56 | Jamash | DJJeff: extended to 1pm PST |
| 17:50.59 | iSylvir | Thrae: notice the when I need to. |
| 17:51.02 | Jamash | or PDT, whichever |
| 17:51.02 | DJJeff | grrrrrrrrrrrrrr |
| 17:51.07 | iSylvir | FFFUUUCK. |
| 17:51.09 | iSylvir | That's three my time. |
| 17:51.11 | Jamash | NightHawkTheSane: cool |
| 17:51.11 | DJJeff | (california time) |
| 17:51.12 | iSylvir | D: |
| 17:51.33 | NightHawkTheSane | (clearly the solution is to move to the west coast :P) |
| 17:51.38 | iSylvir | Thrae: What addons did you make? :O |
| 17:51.41 | Jamash | I know they're getting rid of weapon skillups in cata |
| 17:51.48 | Jamash | don't know about weapon training |
| 17:52.02 | Thrae | Oh, all of my addons suck, but I'm just speaking on principle. |
| 17:52.03 | NightHawkTheSane | Jamash: well if they're getting rid of skillups, keeping the training makes little sense, but *shrug* |
| 17:52.11 | DJJeff | alishar of thorioum brotherhood died...... I moved to THE VENTURE CO |
| 17:52.13 | DJJeff | and I fucking love it |
| 17:52.17 | Thunder_Child | i wonder if blizz is going to make an external client for the battle.net comm system |
| 17:52.33 | Jamash | go team venture co |
| 17:52.37 | DJJeff | WIM ADDON is gonna die |
| 17:52.41 | DJJeff | ^^^^^^^^^^^ WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
| 17:52.48 | jnwhiteh | Level 30, Prot Warrior |
| 17:52.49 | DJJeff | fuck you real id |
| 17:52.50 | jnwhiteh | what glyphs? |
| 17:52.58 | Jamash | glyph of level up more |
| 17:53.01 | iSylvir | Thrae: Well, if you have some time, i'm looking for something to build off of for that addon. as previously started, i cannot for the death of me start anything from scratch. Actually, I take that back. I tried making an addon earlier today, but I haven't been able to test it since WoW is down. |
| 17:53.02 | jnwhiteh | I have Revenge and Battle |
| 17:53.19 | Thrae | iSylvir: Well first you might want to choose if you want to use a framework (like Ace3) or even higher (like making a plugin for an addon), or go pure LUA. |
| 17:53.22 | Thunder_Child | DJJeff: not if it can tap into the system |
| 17:53.26 | DJJeff | http://wow-heroes.com/index.php?zone=us&server=The%20Venture%20Co&name=CanadianJeff |
| 17:53.32 | iSylvir | Thrae: I'd honestly rather go pure LUA. |
| 17:53.34 | DJJeff | I got nibelung |
| 17:53.39 | jnwhiteh | Lua, not LUA |
| 17:53.40 | DJJeff | and deathfrost boots |
| 17:53.58 | Thrae | jnwhiteh: Capitilized for emphasis. Unless that was a script. |
| 17:53.59 | iSylvir | D: |
| 17:54.00 | DJJeff | om nom nom nom nom |
| 17:54.00 | iSylvir | Does it matter. |
| 17:54.08 | Jamash | lua is not an acronym, it is a word |
| 17:54.13 | iSylvir | I know. |
| 17:54.15 | jnwhiteh | Thrae: It's also a proper noun. |
| 17:54.16 | NightHawkTheSane | jnwhiteh: I'd probably go with Revenge and Resonating Power for majors |
| 17:54.19 | Jamash | and knowing is half the battle |
| 17:54.23 | iSylvir | Q_Q |
| 17:54.25 | jnwhiteh | NightHawkTheSane: that's just what I came up with =) |
| 17:54.28 | iSylvir | Back to the topic at hand, wtb. |
| 17:54.34 | Thrae | I can capitilize my proper NOUNS if I WANT to. |
| 17:54.46 | jnwhiteh | Yes you can, just like I can say something about it when it annoys me. |
| 17:54.55 | jnwhiteh | Isn't freedom fun? |
| 17:55.00 | iSylvir | Isn't want a verb, Thrae? |
| 17:55.09 | jnwhiteh | humor, it's lost on this one. |
| 17:55.17 | DJJeff | why didnt I move from thorioum brotherhood to venture co |
| 17:55.21 | DJJeff | alot fucking sooner |
| 17:55.25 | Jamash | because moving costs money |
| 17:55.30 | DJJeff | ^^^^^^^^^^^ |
| 17:55.32 | DJJeff | X_X |
| 17:55.38 | iSylvir | Back to the topic at hand. |
| 17:55.42 | Thrae | iSylvir: Your quest, if you can take it, is to find an addon you like and use and disassemble it until you understand it. You can't turn a car into a supercar unless you first understand how an engine works. |
| 17:55.49 | eidolarr | trying this again: can you refer to an xml element for things like anchoring in the declaration of an element that precedes it in the file? |
| 17:55.55 | Adys | jnwhiteh: is wowprog updated with 335 api? |
| 17:56.01 | Jamash | in other news, I got enough gold from peeing on alliance fires to buy cold weather flying for my warlock |
| 17:56.01 | iSylvir | Thrae: Touche. Got any ideas? |
| 17:56.02 | Adys | i was gonna work on the new functions |
| 17:56.07 | jnwhiteh | no, my client is not 3.3.5 until tomorrow. |
| 17:56.11 | Thrae | iSylvir: Find a simple addon and disassemble it. |
| 17:56.15 | Adys | fair enough |
| 17:56.16 | iSylvir | Thrae: Define simple. |
| 17:56.24 | DJJeff | does anyone get dry eyes / red eye playing too much wow? |
| 17:56.29 | jnwhiteh | I'll get it up to date as soon as the EU patch hits! |
| 17:56.33 | DJJeff | and needs to put artificial tears |
| 17:56.36 | Thrae | Simple Addon -- Doesn't do anything complicated and isn't complex. |
| 17:56.36 | Adys | yeha i thought you were US |
| 17:56.44 | jnwhiteh | I used to be, have one of each account |
| 17:56.47 | iSylvir | Thrae: None of my addons are like that. :( |
| 17:56.49 | Jamash | DJJeff: wow feeds on your tears |
| 17:56.51 | jnwhiteh | but my US account is inactive and I'm tied to EU these days =) |
| 17:56.56 | Thrae | I have simple addons |
| 17:57.10 | Thrae | Well, iSylvir, you also use a UI Pack/Compliation don't you? |
| 17:57.10 | iSylvir | _/Google Thrae? |
| 17:57.12 | DJJeff | recount / gearscore / deadly boss mods |
| 17:57.14 | Jamash | I installed ZeldaLoot and then forgot I had done so |
| 17:57.14 | jnwhiteh | boo my scribe doesn't have resonating power =/ |
| 17:57.18 | iSylvir | Thrae: Tukui.org |
| 17:57.23 | Thrae | No, I mean I *use* simple addons |
| 17:57.23 | Jamash | and when I won a roll I was like omgwtfbbq |
| 17:57.28 | DJJeff | pokes Jamash |
| 17:57.30 | DJJeff | nice |
| 17:57.36 | DJJeff | I love zelda loot |
| 17:57.43 | Jamash | it's kind of annoying in tempest keep |
| 17:57.46 | Jamash | as a hunter |
| 17:57.52 | DJJeff | super mario world of warcraft is l33t |
| 17:57.54 | Jamash | omg you looted legendary arrows x 10 |
| 17:58.00 | Jamash | I shall spam you with music |
| 17:58.03 | Thrae | iSylvir: Right, you've been relying on other authors to not only code addons for you, but also *pick* which addons to *use*. If you're going to be coding your own addons you need to learn how to pick your own addons. |
| 17:58.32 | DJJeff | I have 0 vision in my left eye |
| 17:58.36 | DJJeff | because of wow |
| 17:58.40 | iSylvir | Thrae: So, design my own UI? |
| 17:58.47 | Jamash | DJJeff: you stabbed yourself in the eye? |
| 17:58.48 | iSylvir | Thrae: Been there done that. I can't stand it. |
| 17:58.56 | DJJeff | no.... |
| 17:58.58 | iSylvir | Jamash: I think he would have had to remove it. |
| 17:59.00 | DJJeff | I went bling |
| 17:59.02 | DJJeff | blind |
| 17:59.04 | Jamash | bling bling |
| 17:59.04 | iSylvir | Bling. :) |
| 17:59.13 | Jamash | you can get eye bling |
| 17:59.18 | Jamash | I am not making this up |
| 17:59.21 | iSylvir | Mom, I have a confession to make. I'm bling. |
| 17:59.24 | DJJeff | thats l33t |
| 17:59.32 | Jamash | http://hubpages.com/hub/jeweleye-eye-peircing-A-new-revolution-in-body-piercing |
| 17:59.41 | DJJeff | too many 13 year olds play wow |
| 17:59.43 | iSylvir | Jamash: Do you keep these links locked in a vault somewhere? |
| 17:59.47 | DJJeff | and whats worse |
| 17:59.53 | Jamash | iSylvir: yes |
| 17:59.54 | DJJeff | they buy their accounts |
| 17:59.55 | eidolarr | iSylvir: tbh at this point you would be better off finding something to do than you are talking to us. pick some addon with a small scope and have at it |
| 17:59.56 | DJJeff | on ebay |
| 17:59.58 | iSylvir | Jamash: I'm impressed. |
| 18:00.03 | Thrae | iSylvir: Making an addon compliation is a lot of work in aesthetics. But it can be done without even coding anything using addons with the right flexibility. |
| 18:00.06 | DJJeff | and dont know how to play their class |
| 18:00.08 | Jamash | iSylvir: I call it "google" |
| 18:00.15 | Thunder_Child | obviously not locked in the vault or we wouldnt be seeing them |
| 18:00.31 | Jamash | it's like vault of archavon |
| 18:00.35 | DJJeff | I have seen 80 warlocks that dont know what ritual of summoning is |
| 18:00.41 | DJJeff | I kid u not |
| 18:00.42 | iSylvir | Thrae: I'm pretty sure you're telling me that the addons aren't designed to work together, but they're designed to LOOK together. Correct? |
| 18:00.52 | Blia | grr... it's been two days I am trying to make a simple window (a frame) appear when I select a target and disappear when I "unselect" it. |
| 18:01.40 | DJJeff | people that sell and buy accounts should be shot and stabbed |
| 18:01.44 | DJJeff | several times |
| 18:01.48 | DJJeff | repeadly |
| 18:02.06 | eidolarr | my little cousin did that =/ |
| 18:02.13 | eidolarr | thanks a lot asshole |
| 18:02.17 | Thrae | iSylvir: Yes. I haven't looked at the UI but there's a difference between a compliation and a custom compliation. The latter has code and changes from the compliation author to make the addons better work together for the UI's aesthetic and functional goals. |
| 18:02.20 | DJJeff | people that are 80 and dont know their class |
| 18:02.24 | DJJeff | need to die |
| 18:02.25 | iSylvir | DJJeff: I thought about buying Wow gold once. I found out I was way too scared of reprocussions. |
| 18:02.32 | eidolarr | PEOPLE WHO AREN'T MASTER WOWNERDS DONT DESERVE TO LIVE |
| 18:03.00 | iSylvir | Thrae: Tukui is amazing, it's not a copy paste job. iPromise. I actually encourage you to look into it. |
| 18:03.15 | Thrae | iSylvir: What I was asking you to do is start with the default UI and play with addons, not their code but their intended function, until you get something that resembles the UI you use. |
| 18:03.21 | eidolarr | i'll tell you who "needs to die": assholes on the internet who talk heavy shit categorically without any attempt at empathy |
| 18:03.36 | iSylvir | Thrae: Then I need an addon that does a similar function. Which is where I stand now. |
| 18:03.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Dagmar (1000@c-98-193-180-167.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 18:03.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Dagmar (1000@unaffiliated/dagmar) |
| 18:04.18 | *** join/#wowuidev daev` (~bleh@pool-72-86-116-158.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 18:04.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Osagasu (~Creek@67-197-1-37.rh1.dyn.cm.comporium.net) |
| 18:06.08 | iSylvir | I think IRC died. /sagenod |
| 18:06.12 | Dagmar | Looks it |
| 18:06.36 | Dagmar | That'll likely stop once we get the vigilante legislation passed |
| 18:06.36 | DJJeff | http://www.wow.com/tag/friends-list/ |
| 18:06.38 | DJJeff | ? |
| 18:06.48 | DJJeff | real id hacks? |
| 18:06.49 | Dagmar | DJJeff: ? lol! |
| 18:06.51 | DJJeff | already |
| 18:07.14 | DJJeff | I have heard about a curse client v4 back door hack too? |
| 18:07.14 | Dagmar | Christ did you even READ that page? |
| 18:07.24 | Jamash | let's rage about trivial things |
| 18:07.47 | Dagmar | Not just trivial... let's rage about things we're not even trying to understand |
| 18:08.09 | NightHawkTheSane | ooh, is this pretend-to-be-fisker day then? |
| 18:08.14 | iSylvir | Thrae: Did you give up on your attempts to help me? |
| 18:09.49 | Fisker | haste |
| 18:09.51 | Fisker | it's haaaaaaaaate time |
| 18:10.20 | zenzelezz | "Obviously, with any aging title you're not going to be on the cutting edge of anything, except for the cutting edge of sharp, painful polygons." - I like this phrase |
| 18:11.09 | Thrae | iSylvir: Someone needed me on EFNet. |
| 18:11.11 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~alestane@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 18:11.12 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 18:11.15 | *** join/#wowuidev EthanCentaurai (~ethan@78.149.243.47) |
| 18:11.20 | iSylvir | Everquest Failures Network? |
| 18:11.49 | Thrae | EFNet is an ancient IRC network that has its merits, now that the script kiddie days are behind us. Mostly. |
| 18:11.56 | *** join/#wowuidev akhe (~akhe@0x573fa156.ronqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 18:12.09 | iSylvir | Thrae: Whatever works, man. |
| 18:12.29 | Dagmar | EFNet practically drove IT security through the early 90's |
| 18:12.33 | iSylvir | <iSylvir> Thrae: Then I need an addon that does a similar function. Which is where I stand now. |
| 18:12.52 | *** join/#wowuidev robokitty (~robotusch@50A2E67F.flatrate.dk) |
| 18:12.59 | Dagmar | practically every major vulnerability then was developed for the takeover or retaking of some IRC channel or other |
| 18:13.13 | Thrae | iSylvir: Give me an addon and I'll give you a cool alternative to said addon. But make it simple. Not like Boss Encounter Mod, that's not simple. |
| 18:13.36 | Jamash | Learning Aid |
| 18:13.40 | Jamash | I dare you |
| 18:14.14 | Adys | Anyone on 64bit linux? |
| 18:14.16 | Dagmar | bossnotes? |
| 18:14.21 | Dagmar | Adys: To varying degrees |
| 18:14.23 | iSylvir | Thrae: Wut? |
| 18:14.28 | Jamash | Adys: Sometimes |
| 18:14.32 | iSylvir | Thrae: Recount |
| 18:14.35 | Jamash | Adys: when I'm not in windows |
| 18:14.43 | Adys | Dagmar, Jamash, any of you have the native 64bit linux flash .so ? |
| 18:14.48 | iSylvir | Thrae: Lulz. |
| 18:14.49 | alestane | Skada |
| 18:14.58 | iSylvir | God I hate Skada with a passion. |
| 18:14.59 | Adys | as in not the retarded nspluginwrapper one |
| 18:15.07 | kd3 | er, sec |
| 18:15.09 | kd3 | looks |
| 18:15.11 | Jamash | hmm, I don't recall what version of flash I have |
| 18:15.15 | Adys | kd3: you win |
| 18:15.30 | Dashkal | I was under the impression that there is no 10.1 native build for 64 |
| 18:15.35 | kd3 | 10.0.42.34 |
| 18:15.36 | kd3 | there isn't |
| 18:15.40 | Adys | :( |
| 18:15.41 | kd3 | but they pulled the 10.0 builds |
| 18:15.49 | Adys | yes, adobe pulled it out |
| 18:15.55 | Adys | hence why Im looking for someone who still has it |
| 18:16.02 | Adys | because meanwhile flash is completely broken here |
| 18:16.04 | Thrae | iSylvir: OK. Let me think. |
| 18:16.17 | iSylvir | Thrae: Wanna' take this to a query chat? |
| 18:16.29 | Dashkal | sorry, my old downloads didn't survive my upgrade |
| 18:16.32 | Adys | kd3: mail please |
| 18:16.35 | Adys | dcc doesnt go |
| 18:16.46 | Thrae | iSylvir: Decipher and learn this addon -- http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info10573-picoDPS.html |
| 18:17.18 | iSylvir | Thrae: Imma scurrd. |
| 18:17.25 | Dashkal | Ok, so given that china has gone off the deep end. When do we get our Pandarens? |
| 18:17.39 | Adys | Dashkal: ? |
| 18:17.43 | Jamash | when was china not in the deep end? |
| 18:17.48 | Dashkal | http://games.slashdot.org/story/10/06/22/1757240/China-Restricts-Minors-From-Using-Virtual-Currency |
| 18:18.01 | Thrae | iSylvir: It's mostly straight math, calculating DPS. It only creates frames for events, using LibDataBroker to show its information (you can learn that part later, just copy that part and play with the other stuff) |
| 18:18.04 | Dashkal | There's no way wow will be legal there with that in force. Ok, fine, no china. No china panda laws. Gimme my pandaren! |
| 18:18.20 | alestane | Dude, they were a joke. |
| 18:18.28 | iSylvir | Thrae: I got the first line. I feel marginally accomplished, even though it's by far the easiest portion of the addon. |
| 18:18.46 | Dashkal | I consider them legit after WC3 |
| 18:18.48 | Thrae | iSylvir: We shouldn't take this to query because talking about how to code addons is about as on-topic as this channel has been for the past 2 years. |
| 18:18.53 | Dagmar | Dashkal: They're pissed that the kids can make more money goldfarming than working in their sweat shops |
| 18:19.09 | Thrae | For that I blame... Shirik |
| 18:19.13 | Fisker | hey kd3 |
| 18:19.13 | Jamash | yeah, WC3 has playable pandaren, therefore they are official |
| 18:19.14 | Fisker | i hate you |
| 18:19.17 | iSylvir | Thrae: But I cant help but feel 1) You might miss a message. 2) We're hogging the chat. |
| 18:19.18 | Jamash | omg a fisker |
| 18:19.19 | Dashkal | They're pissed that their people are so utterly in need of escape... but that starts getting into politics so I'll stop there |
| 18:19.21 | Thrae | And Fisker |
| 18:19.48 | Dagmar | We're not getting playable Pandaren, likely ever |
| 18:20.01 | Dagmar | If alliance got it, they'd all be called "care bears". |
| 18:20.02 | Jamash | never say never |
| 18:20.11 | Thrae | iSylvir: Other people are free to join in and help you too. That's part of what this channel is here for, not to talk about how China may invade WoW or whatever. |
| 18:20.12 | Dagmar | If Horde got it, the US would have a civil war |
| 18:20.29 | Dagmar | It would be the QQ to end all QQ |
| 18:20.30 | Fisker | hey Thrae |
| 18:20.39 | iSylvir | local f is local function, right? |
| 18:20.41 | Thrae | iSylvir: And I won't miss a message if you keep saying my handle, which pings me. |
| 18:20.47 | Dagmar | iSylvir: This is why it's local |
| 18:20.53 | iSylvir | Shoooosh |
| 18:20.56 | Jamash | well, they could add something equally awesome to alliance, um, such as, uh... hmm there isn't anything equally awesome |
| 18:21.12 | Dagmar | Jamash: yeah, that's why I'm thinking it might lead to WWIII or something |
| 18:21.17 | Jamash | murlocs |
| 18:21.20 | Jamash | IDK |
| 18:21.25 | Dagmar | Until they add a race that can be on both sides... |
| 18:21.27 | Thrae | iSylvir: What coding have you done before attempting Lua? |
| 18:21.39 | Dagmar | Oh yeah, maybe if murlocs and pandaren could both be on both sides |
| 18:22.08 | Jamash | or dryads/keepers |
| 18:22.54 | Adys | pokes kd3 |
| 18:23.16 | iSylvir | Thrae: I haven't really DONE any coding. I mean, I know enough that I can take a template for a website, paste it in, then edit all the values and MAYBE read enough to fix a few things that I personally need. I know Lua isn't the easiest coding, but i'm dead determined to learn this because I play wow so much that I want the ability to design an addon based on my needs and not have to search high and low for one that I'll have to fix any |
| 18:23.18 | iSylvir | phew. |
| 18:23.28 | Dashkal | I dunno. It was looking pretty good for alliance getting them in BC. Until they retconned Draenai |
| 18:23.43 | Shadowed | Thrae I never use XML :p |
| 18:24.10 | Jamash | Shadowed: I love your unit frames |
| 18:24.18 | Dagmar | iSylvir: Plan carefully. One of these two things will likely take much longer than the other |
| 18:24.21 | Shadowed | oh well |
| 18:24.35 | Shadowed | Maybe if you meant loading files I guess, but I don't use it for that either |
| 18:24.38 | Shadowed | thanks Jamash |
| 18:24.41 | Jamash | and elitist group |
| 18:24.52 | Gnarfoz | I luv 'em too, I should get back to playing wow :O |
| 18:24.58 | Thrae | Shadowed: Talk to jnwhiteh, he said XML was his bread and butter |
| 18:25.00 | Gnarfoz | just to adore them <3 |
| 18:25.13 | Dagmar | Recount needs an DPS/numberz module for EG |
| 18:25.18 | Jamash | <bread><butter /></bread> |
| 18:25.29 | iSylvir | Dagmar: I assume you're alluding to the fact that desiging my own addon may take longer than searching high and low for it. |
| 18:25.35 | Dagmar | iSylvir: exactly. |
| 18:25.53 | Fisker | slaps Shadowed around a bit with a large trout |
| 18:26.18 | iSylvir | Dagmar: I'm also impatient in my searches, and I like the thought of coding my own addon and reveling in it's glory for five minutes before I get bored of it. |
| 18:26.25 | Shadowed | jnwhiteh is crazy, it's a fact |
| 18:26.33 | Thrae | iSylvir: OK. So in Lua, when you define a variable, it's just an object. It can be anything. When you use "local" it's assigned to the scope of where you used it. If it's outside of everything, it's local to the file. If it's inside a function, it's local to the function. Etc. |
| 18:27.03 | iSylvir | I actually knew that. I read some things on Wowwiki. |
| 18:27.33 | iSylvir | I just didn't knwo what the significance of F was... |
| 18:27.45 | iSylvir | which probabley means i missed something during my reading. |
| 18:27.55 | iSylvir | Â /gofigure |
| 18:27.59 | Jamash | f is just a name |
| 18:28.02 | Jamash | could be anything |
| 18:28.08 | iSylvir | abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz? |
| 18:28.11 | Jamash | yes |
| 18:28.14 | iSylvir | fancy. |
| 18:28.27 | Thrae | iSylvir: No signifigance. It's just a variable name. You can do "local MrSparklePants = function(...) ... end" and you'll have a function called MrSparklePants. |
| 18:28.40 | iSylvir | ... |
| 18:28.48 | Jamash | MrFancyPant |
| 18:28.49 | Jamash | s |
| 18:28.54 | Thrae | iSylvir: The one who coded picoDPS, tekkub, likes brief variable naming. |
| 18:28.55 | iSylvir | changing addon to make a local function for MrSparklePants |
| 18:28.59 | Fisker | hey Thrae |
| 18:29.26 | Fisker | hey |
| 18:29.27 | Fisker | HEY |
| 18:29.28 | Thrae | Fisker: OK, I agknowledge your presence. |
| 18:29.29 | Fisker | THRAE |
| 18:29.32 | Fisker | thank you |
| 18:29.41 | DJJeff | slaps Fisker with his very own hand |
| 18:29.45 | iSylvir | So when I see things like "f:SetScript("OnEvent", function(self, event, ...) self[event](self, ...) end)", it's pertaining to the variable F? |
| 18:29.46 | Fisker | hey DJJeff |
| 18:29.50 | Dashkal | poor mmoc getting hammered |
| 18:30.02 | Jamash | ah, so in that case f is a frame |
| 18:30.23 | iSylvir | Yes, the function of it is to create a frame. |
| 18:30.25 | iSylvir | So i'd assume so. |
| 18:30.46 | iSylvir | local f = CreateFrame("Frame") |
| 18:30.49 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 18:30.50 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 18:30.52 | Thrae | iSylvir: Exactly. Here, : denotes it's accessing something in a table, and is equivilent to f.SetScript(f, "OnEvent", function...etc.) |
| 18:30.53 | iSylvir | Well. |
| 18:30.54 | Jamash | so f is an object, and SetScript is a method |
| 18:30.59 | iSylvir | Speak of the devil. |
| 18:31.40 | iSylvir | Thrae: You might have to define that more in depth. I'd love to pretend that I understand, but I'm actually trying to learn something here. :S |
| 18:32.06 | alestane | Each frame is represented in the Lua layer by a table. |
| 18:32.10 | Thrae | iSylvir: You could also do f["SetScript"](f, "OnEvent", ...etc.) Everything in Lua is about its implementation of tables. |
| 18:32.16 | *** join/#wowuidev akhe (~akhe@0x573bb4a2.ronqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 18:32.41 | Fisker | heeeeeeeeey alestane |
| 18:32.43 | iSylvir | Now, do those two different things have any difference in execution? |
| 18:32.51 | Jamash | no |
| 18:33.14 | iSylvir | Ugh, what am I getting myself into. |
| 18:33.34 | Jamash | calling a method with frame:method(...) is formally equivalent to frame.method(frame, ...) basically it's a shortcut |
| 18:33.56 | iSylvir | So really, I'm spending all this time, thinking i'm learning something important, but i'm actually learning a shortcut? |
| 18:34.01 | iSylvir | Â /facepalm |
| 18:34.07 | Thrae | iSylvir: f:SetScript(blah), f.SetScript(f, blah), and f["SetScript"](f, blah) are do the same thing, call the function called "SetScript" in the table f giving f as the 1st parameter |
| 18:34.23 | Thrae | s/are do/all do./ |
| 18:34.39 | alestane | In the case of "f:SetScript("OnEvent", function(self, event, ...) self[event](self, ...) end)", you're creating a new function, that will call a function stored in the table supplied as the first parameter of the function on the table and the rest of the arguments. Since the function is stored as a script for a particular frame, WoW takes responsibility for supplying the arguments to the function when it calls it. |
| 18:34.41 | Thrae | s/all do./all do/ |
| 18:35.48 | Thrae | iSylvir: What tooltip addon does your UI use? |
| 18:35.50 | Fisker | haste |
| 18:35.52 | Dagmar | So, if you've never programmed before, this may well be like saying "Eat a whole cow? It's just a lotta steak and I like steak!" |
| 18:36.24 | iSylvir | Thrae: Uhm... |
| 18:36.31 | iSylvir | Thrae: It's all compiled into one...thing. |
| 18:36.34 | iSylvir | Thrae: D: |
| 18:36.43 | iSylvir | Thrae: hang on a second. |
| 18:37.36 | iSylvir | Thrae: Yeah, I have no chance of finding the tooltip coding in that mess. |
| 18:38.25 | iSylvir | Thrae: Can someone sugguest a super simple addon for me to pick through and mess with? |
| 18:38.48 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower|Work (~MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 18:38.49 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower|Work] by ChanServ |
| 18:38.51 | iSylvir | Err... |
| 18:38.59 | iSylvir | I seem to have been stuck on Thra-e mode. |
| 18:39.13 | iSylvir | Can someone sugguest a super simple addon for me to pick through and mess with? |
| 18:39.28 | iSylvir | Also, can someone get Blizzard to bring the servers back up so I can see the results of my messing? D: |
| 18:39.49 | Dashkal | pokes Blizzard with a pointy stick |
| 18:40.07 | Fisker | haste haste haste |
| 18:40.15 | haste | Fisker: Fisker Fisker Fisker |
| 18:41.00 | cbreak | iSylvir: get the blizzard addon toolkit thing |
| 18:41.13 | cbreak | I think it contained a short example addon four years ago |
| 18:41.14 | Fisker | it worked haste |
| 18:41.14 | cbreak | maybe it still works |
| 18:41.17 | Fisker | just like in beetlejuice |
| 18:41.21 | Fisker | anyway |
| 18:41.22 | Jamash | old code is old |
| 18:41.23 | Fisker | i r sad :( |
| 18:41.30 | Fisker | cause komplett are jerks |
| 18:41.32 | Fisker | (as usual) |
| 18:41.34 | iSylvir | Cbreak: So I can break the blizz ui? I'd rather stick to Wowi addons, not to be snobby. |
| 18:41.51 | Thrae | iSylvir: Try http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info5096-TinyTip.html. I like to think I code in better English than tekkub. |
| 18:41.52 | Antiarc | http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/06/google-voice-for-everyone.html |
| 18:41.54 | cbreak | iSylvir: no |
| 18:41.57 | Antiarc | Google Voice is open for everyone now |
| 18:41.59 | Antiarc | No invite needed |
| 18:41.59 | *** part/#wowuidev Warloco (~theunknow@abarelds.xs4all.nl) |
| 18:42.16 | olafski | everyone being everyone-in-the-US-and-Canada? |
| 18:42.18 | cbreak | how do you think WoW addons work? |
| 18:42.48 | Gnarfoz | Antiarc: everyone in the US |
| 18:42.48 | Antiarc | Well yeah |
| 18:42.52 | Gnarfoz | so... bleh |
| 18:42.53 | Dashkal | iSylvir: the point of the blizzard addon toolkit is not to mess with the existing blizzard UI, but for you to look at and see how things are done. |
| 18:43.02 | Thrae | iSylvir: If you want something even simplier than that, but with less comments, this is only a few lines -- http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info16612-DontDazeMeBro.html |
| 18:43.09 | *** part/#wowuidev DJJeff (~crazyjeff@S0106001e582ff89c.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 18:44.12 | iSylvir | Oh yay |
| 18:44.18 | Fisker | we can cheat for another week cbreak |
| 18:44.19 | Fisker | we're awesome |
| 18:44.23 | Fisker | Blizzard isn't :( |
| 18:44.33 | Fisker | they should've released the patch tomorrow |
| 18:44.34 | Fisker | jerks! |
| 18:45.08 | cbreak | I don't cheat |
| 18:45.13 | Thrae | iSylvir: Having the right setup also helps. I use GVIM, but anything with Lua syntax hilighting helps. |
| 18:45.26 | Antiarc | Notepad++ is excellent on Windows |
| 18:45.28 | Dashkal | wtb haskell style list filtering in php |
| 18:45.29 | Spejnar | aye |
| 18:45.41 | Antiarc | php is such a clunky language :/ |
| 18:45.47 | Jamash | I use SciTE |
| 18:45.59 | Antiarc | Notepad++ is a SciTE derivative :P |
| 18:46.07 | Antiarc | So six one way, half a dozen the other. |
| 18:46.08 | Jamash | orly |
| 18:46.18 | Antiarc | yessir |
| 18:46.20 | Spejnar | np++ with xml validation is nice |
| 18:46.22 | Fisker | notepad++ sucks |
| 18:46.24 | Thrae | iSylvir: SciTE and Notepad++ are both good examples, with Notepad++ probably being the easier of the two to use. |
| 18:46.30 | Dashkal | it is. I miss my type safety |
| 18:46.32 | Fisker | i've seen wordpad handle bigger files than notepad++ |
| 18:46.33 | cbreak | TextWrangler is quite nice. |
| 18:46.34 | Fisker | wordpad. |
| 18:46.36 | Dashkal | Type safety can work with web development! |
| 18:46.42 | Antiarc | Lack of type safety isn't what makes PHP suck |
| 18:46.45 | Blia | likes Notepad++ <3 |
| 18:46.47 | Fisker | wordpad Antiarc |
| 18:46.49 | iSylvir | Thrae: I have Programmer's Notebad |
| 18:46.50 | Fisker | wordpad. |
| 18:46.50 | olafski | can't you "enable" type safety in php? |
| 18:46.53 | iSylvir | Notepad* |
| 18:46.55 | Fisker | no |
| 18:46.57 | Fisker | wordpad. |
| 18:46.58 | iSylvir | Sorry, was reading. |
| 18:46.59 | olafski | set it to strict or something |
| 18:47.01 | Antiarc | php is a loosely-typed language |
| 18:47.08 | Antiarc | You can't make it strongly typed with a config flag |
| 18:47.11 | alestane | I'm sure other people around here have seen this by now but I found it disturbingly amusing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMupsZAPm9I |
| 18:47.12 | Thrae | iSylvir: I'm not sure how good the Lua syntax hilighting is on that. |
| 18:47.24 | iSylvir | Thrae: I'm pretty sure it's...good? Would you like a screenshot? |
| 18:47.38 | Jamash | alestane: YES awesome |
| 18:48.01 | Dashkal | Antiarc: True. But its what I miss most. Getting arrays when I expect scalars is annoying |
| 18:48.10 | iSylvir | Thrae, am I considered 'sad' if I only got like...2 lines of coding in this thing? |
| 18:48.11 | Thrae | alestane: Wow, that goes up to 1080P. |
| 18:48.21 | Antiarc | I love loosely typed languages, personally |
| 18:48.26 | Antiarc | But PHP is grating to use |
| 18:48.49 | Dashkal | Antiarc: I can actually accept some looseness in that regard. But at minimum I like to keep my data structures apart from my values. |
| 18:49.04 | Antiarc | Not sure I understand what you mean. |
| 18:49.10 | Thrae | iSylvir: No, I started with changing one line in an addon called "AF_Tooltip_Mini" after a lot of research and a lot of false starts. I just kept adding to it until it become something entirely different. |
| 18:49.11 | Antiarc | http://i.imgur.com/YBb3s.png <-- my NPP setup |
| 18:49.16 | Dashkal | Think perl's $ vs @ |
| 18:49.27 | Jamash | loose typing sounds dirty |
| 18:49.44 | Dashkal | Static typing can be annoying as hell as well. But inference makes that much less painful |
| 18:49.47 | durcyn | Jamash: Hot Keyboard Sluts Near You |
| 18:49.55 | Dagmar | Jamash: BUt it's so much more fun |
| 18:50.02 | Fisker | CUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRSEEEEEEEEEEEEEE CLIEEEEEEEEEEENT |
| 18:50.13 | Jamash | TETSUOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! |
| 18:50.20 | Fisker | Antiarc |
| 18:50.27 | foxlit | Antiarc: how many of those toolbar buttons are actually useful? |
| 18:50.30 | Fisker | you are now responsible of finding me a 3.3.3 chatter link |
| 18:50.44 | Antiarc | foxlit: I dunno, I just use the keyboard shortcuts :P |
| 18:50.48 | Antiarc | Could probably turn the toolbaro ff. |
| 18:52.27 | Jamash | does notepad++ have a function browser? |
| 18:52.35 | Antiarc | Yup |
| 18:52.40 | Jamash | sweet |
| 18:52.47 | Thrae | iSylvir: You reminded me I wanted to add a simple feature to a more complex addon I'm using to replace a simplier addon. |
| 18:52.53 | Fisker | dies |
| 18:53.16 | iSylvir | Thrae: Copy paste is win? |
| 18:53.35 | Thrae | iSylvir: Not exactly. |
| 18:53.40 | Fisker | addon authors should like l2"if(3.3.5)" on a patch like this |
| 18:53.41 | Fisker | i rage |
| 18:53.58 | iSylvir | Copy paste modify win? x3 |
| 18:54.01 | foxlit | Fisker: addon authors should be paid. |
| 18:54.23 | iSylvir | Foxlit: Isn't that illegal? |
| 18:54.24 | Fisker | addon authors should pay me |
| 18:54.26 | Lunessa | alestane: I had not seen that, and it was amusing. |
| 18:54.29 | Fisker | no iSylvir |
| 18:54.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Schnaks (~Schnaks@p4FC4EB5F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:55.08 | Jamash | I got paid ten bux |
| 18:55.34 | Dashkal | I'm just about at twenty... over a year and a half :P But I think I have a userbase of maybe 2k... |
| 18:55.49 | iSylvir | Thrae: local _G = getfenv(0) wtf is that? |
| 18:55.59 | Jamash | Antiarc: what NPP theme are you using? |
| 18:56.14 | Antiarc | Obsidian |
| 18:56.24 | Jamash | thx |
| 18:56.56 | Antiarc | Liberation Mono is the font |
| 18:57.02 | Antiarc | (which is my current favorite programming font) |
| 18:57.31 | *** join/#wowuidev daev` (~bleh@pool-72-86-116-158.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 18:59.35 | NightHawkTheSane | not a bad font |
| 18:59.48 | Antiarc | It's monospace but doesn't feel like it |
| 18:59.48 | cbreak | I like Menlo and Monaco. |
| 18:59.50 | Antiarc | Which is nice |
| 18:59.58 | NightHawkTheSane | I |
| 18:59.59 | alestane | Environments are sort of a wacky idea, iSylvir, but very powerful. |
| 19:00.09 | NightHawkTheSane | I'm a fan of Anonymous Pro, lately |
| 19:00.29 | Antiarc | iSylvir: Lua has "global environments" you can switch between |
| 19:00.31 | alestane | What it comes down to is that global variables in Lua are actually keys in an "invisible" table. |
| 19:00.36 | Antiarc | Right. |
| 19:00.43 | Antiarc | All the global functions, variables, all of it |
| 19:00.57 | alestane | So that sets a local variable "_G" to point to that table. |
| 19:01.09 | Thrae | iSylvir: It's important to distinguish between something that all addons can see and something that only your addon can see. When you say "local foo = 1" outside of everything, that's local to the file. When you just say "foo = 1", that's global to ALL addons. |
| 19:01.30 | iSylvir | Thrae: You just lost me completley. |
| 19:01.56 | iSylvir | I sorta get it. |
| 19:01.58 | cbreak | it's not really local to the file |
| 19:02.01 | cbreak | it's local to the chunk |
| 19:02.25 | Thrae | iSylvir: OK, say you have a web site you made. Before you publish it to the Internet, only you can view that website. It's "local". When you publish it to the Internet, it becomes "global". |
| 19:02.28 | cbreak | it becomes an upvalue to the functions you create after you declare it, but not in those you create before |
| 19:02.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Cide@hus110a.bobbnet.com) |
| 19:02.45 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 19:02.45 | iSylvir | Thrae: I got ya'. Go on. |
| 19:03.08 | iSylvir | Wait... |
| 19:03.09 | Thrae | cbreak , others: Please note iSylvir has no coding experience outside of some HTML, so using terms like "upvalue" is going to be confusing. |
| 19:03.18 | iSylvir | ^ |
| 19:03.27 | iSylvir | Coding noob in the making. |
| 19:03.30 | Antiarc | Any experience with javascript? |
| 19:03.32 | iSylvir | We all have to start somewhere. |
| 19:03.43 | cbreak | I had to look that up on wikipedia too when I read it the first time |
| 19:03.46 | iSylvir | Antiarc: Nope. x3 |
| 19:03.48 | Cide | Antiarc, yep, what's up? |
| 19:03.55 | Antiarc | Think of an upvalue as the equivalent of declaring "var foo" in a function. foo is only visible to the function. |
| 19:04.07 | Antiarc | Cide: Hehe, not asking for help, just trying to draw parallels to help iSylvir understand some Lua concepts :) |
| 19:04.14 | Cide | oh |
| 19:04.15 | Thrae | Antiarc: Better yet, don't think of upvalues. Think of local and global. |
| 19:04.23 | Cide | I figured you didn't need help |
| 19:04.27 | Cide | I was confused |
| 19:04.30 | Thrae | Most addon coders don't even know what an upvalue is. |
| 19:04.38 | Shadowed | :> |
| 19:04.39 | iSylvir | Thrae put it in the most in depth concept by stating that it was like the internet. |
| 19:04.43 | iSylvir | or rather, a web page. |
| 19:04.50 | iSylvir | Not in depth, but graspable. |
| 19:04.57 | iSylvir | I like basic concepts, relatable. x3 |
| 19:04.58 | nevcairiel | people use upvalues all the time, they just dont notice |
| 19:05.06 | Thrae | nevcairiel: Right. |
| 19:05.07 | Ackis | Thrae: it's a value that isn't feeling depressed ;) |
| 19:05.19 | iSylvir | Ackis: I lol'd. |
| 19:05.28 | Ackis | function foo() local foo1 = "Pen15" end |
| 19:05.34 | cbreak | upvalues are similar to C's function static variables if they could be shared. |
| 19:05.50 | iSylvir | cbreak: lol...wut? |
| 19:06.02 | nevcairiel | if you think of one Lua file as simply one function, it may make more sense |
| 19:06.03 | Antiarc | I just tend to think of it as upvalues being stored on the stack, and globals on the heap |
| 19:06.10 | Antiarc | It's not entirely accurate but it's close enough |
| 19:06.17 | cbreak | it's inacurate |
| 19:06.18 | Thrae | iSylvir: So anyway, I use "local _G = getenv(0)" as a way to access global variables and objects as well as some other reasons which are more complicated. |
| 19:06.27 | cbreak | they can't be stored on the stack because they survive stack deconstruction :) |
| 19:06.35 | iSylvir | Thrae: So it lets you get information provided from other libs? |
| 19:06.36 | Antiarc | I know. Just sayin' :P |
| 19:06.44 | iSylvir | Or whatever the fuck they're called. |
| 19:06.45 | iSylvir | Q_Q |
| 19:06.54 | Thrae | iSylvir: As long as that information is global, yes. |
| 19:06.57 | iSylvir | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:06.58 | iSylvir | Wait. |
| 19:06.59 | iSylvir | I was rite? |
| 19:07.00 | Antiarc | Starting out, you shouldn't need to worry about that at all. |
| 19:07.04 | iSylvir | Â /cheer |
| 19:07.07 | iSylvir | Kay. |
| 19:07.19 | iSylvir | So basically it allows your addon to communicate with the modules? |
| 19:07.24 | Antiarc | local _G = getfenv(0) is a tiny optimization usually done to make finding leaked globals easier. Don't worry about that til later. |
| 19:07.25 | Thrae | iSylvir: It lets me get information, or specifically a variable or object, from the global scope -- all addons. |
| 19:07.36 | Antiarc | _G exists even if you don't define it with getfenv, though |
| 19:07.48 | iSylvir | Alright then. |
| 19:08.07 | iSylvir | I'm going to have you guys walk me through this, because I THINK i get the basic concept of that now. OR at least why I shouldn't care about it at this point. |
| 19:08.47 | Thrae | iSylvir: Sometimes you'll want to use the same variable name twice -- once globally and once locally. It can get confusing, so I like to use _G.foo to make sure I'm grabbing the GLOBAL version of the variable "foo". |
| 19:08.48 | alestane | So I just upgraded Skype to a newer version and it's stalling on sign-in. Do I need to open some port or other? |
| 19:09.05 | iSylvir | _G. denotes global then? |
| 19:09.21 | Antiarc | _G.foo is access to the global variable "foo", yes |
| 19:09.26 | alestane | Take the "CreateFrame" function. |
| 19:09.28 | Antiarc | It's just explicit. You can just say "foo" and it'll work, too |
| 19:09.38 | Antiarc | But _G.foo is a bit more readable, insofar as intent goes |
| 19:09.46 | Thrae | iSylvir: Yes, and it's also handy if you have variable variable names, since _G is basically a table. You can do _G["foo"]. |
| 19:10.07 | alestane | Or as is often done, _G[button:GetName().."Icon"] |
| 19:10.12 | Thrae | iSylvir: Always remember when something shows foo.bar ot |
| 19:10.26 | iSylvir | too*? |
| 19:10.52 | iSylvir | I'm honestly not going to concern myself further with that precise portion of the code, as it doesn't pertain to the goal of my first addon. |
| 19:10.55 | Stanzilla | alestane: skype 4.2 is bad, it doesn't work correctly when you're playing WoW :( |
| 19:11.03 | Thrae | iSylvir: Always remember when something shows foo.bar that's table "foo" with variable "bar" inside of it. The equivilent of foo["bar"]. |
| 19:11.12 | alestane | I don't need it for playing WoW, and this is 2.8 IIRC. |
| 19:11.23 | Stanzilla | oh! |
| 19:11.24 | Stanzilla | ok |
| 19:11.35 | iSylvir | Thrae: I think i Get it. |
| 19:11.39 | nevcairiel | did the miniWorldMap cvar go somewhere in 3.3.5, or is that guy posting a ticket just dumb? |
| 19:11.46 | Thrae | iSylvir: There are more complex ideas like metatables and WoW-specific stuff where tables-are-not-really-tables, but ignore it when people start talking about that. |
| 19:12.01 | iSylvir | Thrae: I usually do. |
| 19:12.12 | iSylvir | local strformat = string.format |
| 19:12.15 | iSylvir | So what does that do? |
| 19:12.26 | cbreak | nothing you have to know |
| 19:12.35 | iSylvir | Â fair enough. |
| 19:12.41 | cbreak | I call it "premature optimisation" |
| 19:12.52 | Thrae | iSylvir: Puts the variable format into the variable container called "strformat". |
| 19:13.06 | iSylvir | And the significance of that is? |
| 19:13.14 | cbreak | format's not a varuable though, it's a field in the string table containing a function |
| 19:13.20 | Thrae | iSylvir: Puts the variable "format" from the table "string" into the variable container called "strformat". |
| 19:13.26 | cbreak | and table lookups are slower than local access |
| 19:13.35 | Thrae | cbreak: It's an object. Be nice. |
| 19:13.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Sum_Wun (~sumwun@cpe-173-175-86-153.stx.res.rr.com) |
| 19:13.47 | iSylvir | oMan. |
| 19:14.05 | cbreak | Thrae: objects in lua are relative :) |
| 19:14.06 | iSylvir | So basically Format is the variable there. The table is listed first, as is the case foo.bar, bar is the variable in table foo? |
| 19:14.22 | iSylvir | Or am I wrong? |
| 19:14.26 | Thrae | iSylvir: In Lua there isn't much difference between variables and objects, so I'm using the term interchangably until it comes time to define them. |
| 19:14.34 | nevcairiel | yes, its just syntax candy for foo["bar"] |
| 19:14.36 | iSylvir | Fair enough. |
| 19:14.43 | Thrae | iSylvir: Yes, that's right. |
| 19:14.52 | iSylvir | Man, it takes a village to raise a coder. |
| 19:14.57 | iSylvir | Moving on. |
| 19:15.06 | iSylvir | local UIParent, GameTooltip = _G.UIParent, _G.GameTooltip |
| 19:15.21 | iSylvir | What is the preicse function of that? |
| 19:15.23 | iSylvir | precise*** |
| 19:15.24 | nevcairiel | ignore it |
| 19:15.27 | iSylvir | D: |
| 19:15.32 | nevcairiel | <cbreak> I call it "premature optimisation" |
| 19:15.34 | iSylvir | if I ignore it I fail to learn. |
| 19:15.34 | nevcairiel | ^ |
| 19:15.41 | Blia | i have made an addon (based on others because I don't know coding that much) that should display my target's portrait, target's name, mana and health. Instead, it shows my group member's target. |
| 19:15.59 | nevcairiel | The function of it is that global lookups are slower |
| 19:16.03 | nevcairiel | so devs make local references |
| 19:16.05 | Thrae | iSylvir: That's doing the same thing as local strformat = string.format. It's all little "hacks" to increase speed slightly by taking global scopes and making them local. |
| 19:16.15 | iSylvir | Ah. |
| 19:16.24 | iSylvir | So i shouldn't concern myself with the Local refrences tab in general? |
| 19:16.43 | Thrae | iSylvir: There's another more complex reason for doing it that you shouldn't concern yourself with and most authors don't. |
| 19:16.56 | iSylvir | local UnitClass, UnitIsPlayer = UnitClass, UnitIsPlayer is that another shortcut? |
| 19:17.02 | nevcairiel | yes |
| 19:17.03 | Shadowed | Not much of one |
| 19:17.15 | iSylvir | Don't ridicule Thrae. x3 |
| 19:17.16 | Shadowed | There is very little reason to do that |
| 19:17.32 | cbreak | it might make a difference if you call UnitClass many thousand times |
| 19:17.33 | cbreak | in the same frame |
| 19:17.44 | cbreak | which will reduce your framerate below bearable limits |
| 19:17.59 | iSylvir | x3 |
| 19:18.00 | Shadowed | not really cbreak |
| 19:18.05 | iSylvir | Epic computer is epic, cbreak. |
| 19:18.09 | Shadowed | I argued it with Antiarc like a year ago |
| 19:18.10 | iSylvir | MOVING ON. |
| 19:18.12 | Thrae | cbreak , Shadowed : If you haven't guessed, iSylvir is dissecting TinyTipBasic. |
| 19:18.15 | Shadowed | the end result is, the savings are horribly minor |
| 19:18.18 | alestane | It can be a shortcut, or it can also be used to make sure that you're using the "original" UnitClass function without any hooks or modifications. |
| 19:18.23 | iSylvir | local L = _G.TinyTipLocale - still a shortcut? |
| 19:18.32 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar_atwork (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 19:18.32 | Shadowed | It's better used for what alestane said |
| 19:18.40 | Xinhuan | yes, a shortcut |
| 19:18.42 | nevcairiel | well yeah. It also makes it easier to read, because L is shorter then TinyTipLocale :D |
| 19:18.52 | Xinhuan | essentially, typing L is easier than TinyTipLocale :P |
| 19:18.58 | iSylvir | yeah. I get that. |
| 19:19.09 | nevcairiel | L is basically a convention to use for lookup tables for localization |
| 19:19.21 | cbreak | Shadowed: as I said: it will only make a difference if you call it so many times that you start lagging the framerate |
| 19:19.26 | iSylvir | local classColours, hooks, origfuncs |
| 19:19.34 | Shadowed | Not really! |
| 19:19.48 | iSylvir | local classColours, hooks, origfuncs = Is that a shortcut, or does that do something notable. |
| 19:19.52 | iSylvir | ?* |
| 19:19.53 | nevcairiel | I upvalue everything so i spot leaked lobaly easier |
| 19:19.57 | Shadowed | I don't have the numbers still, but you can't really call a function enough times to start causing framerate lag. Unless the function is doing something horribly resource intensive, then you shouldn't be calling it so much |
| 19:20.00 | nevcairiel | globals* |
| 19:20.08 | iSylvir | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:20.13 | Shadowed | but it's not the difference of local vs global that causes the 'lag' |
| 19:20.16 | nevcairiel | iSylvir: if no values are assigned, its no shortcut. Those are upvalues used in the code |
| 19:20.31 | iSylvir | Fuck it, skipping local refrences. |
| 19:20.32 | cbreak | Shadowed: I can even just loop enough to create framerate lag. Don't even have to call a function for that :) |
| 19:20.37 | Thrae | iSylvir: They're devs arguing over semantics. It happens all the time. |
| 19:20.43 | iSylvir | lol. |
| 19:20.45 | iSylvir | I find it funny. |
| 19:20.48 | Shadowed | That's not a valid use case |
| 19:20.58 | Shadowed | but anywa I need to go get lunch |
| 19:21.03 | iSylvir | local slash2 = "ttip" So that's making a /ttip work? |
| 19:21.04 | cbreak | I never said that |
| 19:21.11 | cbreak | I said: if you think you need it, you're doing it wrong |
| 19:21.14 | foxlit | Hm, I have three crowns of the fire festival |
| 19:21.23 | cbreak | because the only way to need it is when you cause problems to your users |
| 19:21.31 | Thrae | iSylvir: Anyway, here I use "local foo, bar, zoo" because I use "foo" and "bar" later and I want to make sure I'm accesing them local to the file and not globally. |
| 19:21.34 | nevcairiel | iSylvir: that alone not, no. that just defines the string, thats probably registered as the slash later on |
| 19:21.45 | cbreak | it just won't make a difference if you use stuff sanely. |
| 19:22.10 | iSylvir | Thrae: So you don't get incorrect information from other addons feeding out globally? |
| 19:22.25 | cbreak | the correctness is not the problem |
| 19:22.33 | cbreak | addons can modify it before he reads them |
| 19:22.57 | iSylvir | cbreak: ...Noob coder here. |
| 19:23.03 | nevcairiel | iSylvir: essentially you dont want your variables to leak to other addons, as they could easily collide and cause the weirdes errors |
| 19:23.09 | Thrae | iSylvir: You'll notice there's a HUGE bunch of local definitions at the top of TinyTipBasic.lua, and that's one of my own coding conventions. Some of them are there so, if another addon author wants, they can easily change the values, and some of them are there so they can easily be seen how they are defined. |
| 19:23.41 | Thrae | iSylvir: Right. If another addon has a global called "foo" and your addon changes the value of it, you could break that addon. |
| 19:23.50 | iSylvir | Im focusing on only the addon file, as I get confused if i have to hop between two things. |
| 19:23.57 | iSylvir | Thrae: I get it! <3 |
| 19:24.25 | iSylvir | Â /excited clap |
| 19:24.59 | iSylvir | if GetLocale() == "deDE" then - does that change the language of the addon? because I think locale does that and i think deDE is german or something. |
| 19:25.13 | cbreak | in my opinion, addons should only use globals for saved variables, for public api, and maybe for their own local table, if they are older than that table change |
| 19:25.33 | Thrae | iSylvir: Lua doesn't have any easy way to make a value constant (unchangable), so sometimes I say "local cFoo = 1" to tell other addon authors, "This value isn't suppose to change from being 1 unless you change it here." |
| 19:26.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Natch| (~natch@c-97cde155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 19:26.28 | iSylvir | And that has some sort of impact on the function of the addon? |
| 19:26.38 | iSylvir | Or it just changes which value is being...dohickeymabobed? |
| 19:27.13 | Thrae | iSylvir: It's just a convention. A way to name variables so other authors, including yourself, remember what the variable is used for and how to use it. |
| 19:27.35 | cbreak | lua does not define a lot. you can use things in many ways |
| 19:27.36 | iSylvir | Thrae: IE, nothing I should concern myself with unless I'm doing something complex? |
| 19:27.46 | cbreak | and depending on how you think about it, it can be different |
| 19:27.50 | eidolarr | cbreak: frames are often global too |
| 19:28.12 | cbreak | yeah, but only because people like convenience. and the name="" attribute |
| 19:28.17 | cbreak | you can make them live in locals |
| 19:28.18 | iSylvir | It's worth noting that I've been up for...16 hours now. x3 |
| 19:28.21 | cbreak | I did that in one of my addons |
| 19:28.38 | Thrae | iSylvir: Yeah, although I think it's a good idea to pick naming definitions that at least make sense to you. So if you go back to your code, say, 2 weeks later, you won't go "WTF does cClrBGfG stand for?!" |
| 19:28.50 | iSylvir | lol |
| 19:29.18 | Adys | kd3: here? |
| 19:29.27 | eidolarr | people like that because that's the style blizzard uses and it's supported by their frame creation system |
| 19:29.28 | iSylvir | So name it something relevant to what it does? |
| 19:29.28 | kd3 | ya. you get it? |
| 19:29.32 | Adys | kd3: nop |
| 19:29.37 | Adys | kd3: can you send it by mail? |
| 19:29.46 | kd3 | I did? |
| 19:29.49 | kd3 | checks his sent logs |
| 19:29.55 | Adys | nop |
| 19:29.55 | eidolarr | there is no way to totally hide a frame, so any sort of security by not putting it in _G is moot against a determined attacker |
| 19:30.13 | iSylvir | Who attacks frames...? |
| 19:30.20 | iSylvir | Â /sigh |
| 19:30.29 | iSylvir | I don't think i'm starting from the basics |
| 19:30.37 | cbreak | eidolarr: it's not for security |
| 19:30.39 | iSylvir | im starting somewhere between basics and moderates. x3 |
| 19:30.40 | Adys | iSylvir: Obviously the old, near-extinct and legendary species of framophage apes |
| 19:30.41 | cbreak | it's for cleanness |
| 19:30.55 | iSylvir | Adys: I got a lol out of that. |
| 19:31.00 | eidolarr | convoluting code and swimming against the current for "cleanness" with no practical benefits is questionable |
| 19:31.10 | cbreak | iSylvir: important: --[[ this is a comment. write them :) ]] |
| 19:31.27 | cbreak | eidolarr: there's a benefit |
| 19:31.27 | Thrae | iSylvir: Like "local numFriends = GetNumFriends()" is pretty easy to figure out whenever you see "numFriends" what it contains. |
| 19:31.45 | mikma | [22:31:28] [G] [Kyain]: what was the sorce in SA vs france? |
| 19:31.47 | iSylvir | cbreak, I deffinatley didn't know that. |
| 19:31.48 | cbreak | unless you think you're the only one who uses a name :) |
| 19:31.51 | iSylvir | Thank you for saving me some times. |
| 19:32.11 | eidolarr | cbreak: that is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist as long as you have decent naming style |
| 19:32.35 | Thrae | iSylvir: That is, of course, how numb your parapalegic friends are...no, wait, I think it's just the number of friends you have |
| 19:33.04 | iSylvir | Threa: So local numFriends = GetNumFriends() would get me the number of friends. But what variable is that? As in, how can I use that number elsewhere? |
| 19:33.26 | eidolarr | mikma: 1-1 |
| 19:33.28 | cbreak | eidolarr: do you think everyone else can write good code? |
| 19:33.36 | eidolarr | cbreak: they don't have to, i do |
| 19:33.42 | mikma | eidolarr: sorce rocks |
| 19:33.46 | cbreak | eidolarr: you shouldn't rely on other programmers for your code to work unless you have to |
| 19:33.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (~dashkal@S0106001217d8177c.vf.shawcable.net) |
| 19:33.57 | cbreak | eidolarr: but if you access globals, you do rely that no one else uses them |
| 19:34.00 | eidolarr | if my addon is named dingerSpells and my frame is called dingerSpells_SpellListFrame, no one is going to collide with that |
| 19:34.03 | iSylvir | Cbreak and Eidolarr are going to break out into a fist fight soon. |
| 19:34.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (~dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 19:34.13 | cbreak | I don't use fists. |
| 19:34.16 | Thrae | iSylvir: Well, I gave you a simplier addon, http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info16612-DontDazeMeBro.html |
| 19:34.17 | iSylvir | Penis? |
| 19:34.22 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: you can't be absolutely sure, though. |
| 19:34.24 | cbreak | no. |
| 19:34.44 | iSylvir | I have that, Thrae. I forgot to open it when I downloaded N++, so I used tinytip. /fail |
| 19:34.48 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: well you can't be absolutely sure that no one will grope around in your frames by enumerating all frames or grabbing mouseover |
| 19:34.51 | cbreak | I fight with arcane, frost magic, and arguments. |
| 19:35.10 | eidolarr | it's not a question of absolutely sure or not, it's a question of how much your'e willing to sacrifice |
| 19:35.29 | eidolarr | and in reality, there is no harm in exposing your frames globaly with unique identifiers |
| 19:35.35 | Xinhuan | lets put it this way, if someone wants to mess with your addon, they can just edit the code directly :P |
| 19:36.03 | Xinhuan | so there's no real reason to go to extreme lengths to keep everything hidden from external addons |
| 19:36.13 | iSylvir | Alright, switching gears people. |
| 19:36.38 | NightHawkTheSane | maybe not extreme, but it's not hard to scope your stuff sanely so you expose a very small amount |
| 19:36.46 | iSylvir | local EventFrame, CheckForStupidAuras, _ That creates an event frame for later use called CheckForStupidAuras, correct? |
| 19:36.50 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 19:36.51 | NightHawkTheSane | and it's literally no harder than NOT doing it, so why not? |
| 19:36.53 | kd3 | grr |
| 19:37.09 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: it depends, it's definitely swimming against the current, you can't have named frames without careful nilling, you can't really use xml |
| 19:37.10 | kd3 | adys, message me an email addy as the one I have on file isn't working |
| 19:37.32 | eidolarr | iSylvir: post the whole liner |
| 19:37.42 | iSylvir | thats it |
| 19:37.46 | iSylvir | on that line. |
| 19:37.56 | eidolarr | that indicates that when you use those names it refers to a local variable |
| 19:38.01 | eidolarr | instead of doing a global lookup |
| 19:38.16 | eidolarr | if they wanted it to be global, they wouldn't have to say EventFrame, CHeckForetc |
| 19:38.50 | mikma | http://kuvaton.com/browse/15048/what_i_remember_most_about_legos.jpg HALT! SFW! |
| 19:39.00 | mikma | hammerzeit |
| 19:39.01 | iSylvir | Alright, so that keeps that exclusively to that addon so no one has a 'checkforstupidauras' variable that interferes with it? |
| 19:39.46 | malreth | iSylvir: if it's a global, then nothing |
| 19:39.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@dsl4E5C0492.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 19:39.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 19:39.57 | iSylvir | It's local? |
| 19:40.09 | malreth | if it's local, then they exist in separate blocks and there's no conflict |
| 19:40.12 | eidolarr | iSylvir: that and it keeps them from accidentally referencing the global variablse of the same names |
| 19:40.24 | iSylvir | Then I'm correct. |
| 19:40.33 | iSylvir | Hooray. |
| 19:40.46 | iSylvir | If we spend an average of 5 minutes on each line, i'll be about 80 by the time we're done. |
| 19:40.53 | iSylvir | Â /golfclap |
| 19:41.12 | malreth | recommendation: don't spend 5 minutes per line |
| 19:41.22 | NightHawkTheSane | taking a cs101 course might be faster ;) |
| 19:41.26 | iSylvir | local c_timeToRatOnAura = 30 things like that say that the local variable timetoratonaura is assigned to = 3 for use later in the addon? What's the significance of c |
| 19:41.32 | eidolarr | or you could spend 30 seconds looking here for the answers first: http://www.lua.org/pil/ |
| 19:41.37 | eidolarr | or googling |
| 19:42.03 | NightHawkTheSane | iSylvir: the variable name is c_timeToRatOnAura. |
| 19:42.07 | iSylvir | If you guys have an issue teaching me then simply don't reply. If no one replys then I simply take my business elsewhere. |
| 19:42.18 | iSylvir | What's the significance of the C? Just for looks? |
| 19:42.25 | malreth | there is no significance to the c_ at the beginning |
| 19:42.31 | iSylvir | Lawl, fail. |
| 19:42.32 | NightHawkTheSane | the same as the significance of 'timeToRatOnAura' |
| 19:42.35 | malreth | it looks like hungarian notation |
| 19:42.43 | malreth | ~wiki hungarian notation |
| 19:42.45 | Xinhuan | the only significance of the "c_" is whatever the author of that code attached to it |
| 19:42.46 | NightHawkTheSane | it's just text to help the author know what the variable is/is for |
| 19:42.58 | iSylvir | Ah. |
| 19:43.01 | malreth | ~fail, purl |
| 19:43.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Cloudwolf (~chatzilla@c-71-227-249-44.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 19:43.06 | malreth | oh... nm |
| 19:43.11 | cbreak | I like to name my variables after their purpose |
| 19:43.19 | cbreak | other people like to name their variablees after their type |
| 19:43.25 | cbreak | (which is quite nonsensical...) |
| 19:43.36 | nevcairiel | i never liked hungarian notations or its derivates |
| 19:43.39 | NightHawkTheSane | cbreak: well, or both. in a loosely typed language, some people think it helps. |
| 19:43.45 | NightHawkTheSane | (i'm not one of them, but meh) |
| 19:43.47 | Cloudwolf | darned wow server logins being down |
| 19:43.56 | cbreak | works here cloud. |
| 19:44.00 | durcyn | Cloudwolf: that never happens on a tuesday |
| 19:44.08 | nevcairiel | its used all over the windows APIs, its usually driving me nuts |
| 19:44.09 | cbreak | I am staring at this stupid bookshelf since almost 2 hours |
| 19:44.12 | Cloudwolf | i mean even battle.net is down :P |
| 19:44.37 | malreth | nevcairiel: that's because the Windows APIs were written by the Devil himself |
| 19:44.38 | Cloudwolf | the website is even down not just wow servers XD |
| 19:44.44 | iSylvir | local c_timeToRatOnPackByChannel = { So what that does is goes on to say that the varriable c_timeToRatOnPackByChannel is equal to, depending on which channel it's being outputted to, 6 if it's ["BATTLEGROUND"] = 6, ["RAID"] = 12, etc. |
| 19:44.58 | cbreak | no |
| 19:45.04 | malreth | it's another assignment |
| 19:45.11 | nevcairiel | its just a plain table |
| 19:45.12 | cbreak | nothing depending on anything. |
| 19:45.16 | cbreak | {} is a table constructor |
| 19:45.24 | cbreak | or rather, it is THE table constructor |
| 19:45.32 | iSylvir | I don't follow. |
| 19:45.44 | iSylvir | Fix my statement. |
| 19:46.00 | mikma | wat |
| 19:46.01 | malreth | the line of code constructs a table and assigns it to a variable with the label c_timeToRatOnPackByChannel |
| 19:46.03 | NightHawkTheSane | iSylvir: you probably ought to start with some very basic programming tutorials, it looks like you're missing some fairly basic info. |
| 19:46.13 | nevcairiel | It just creates a new table with all those entries, and assigns it to the variable |
| 19:46.23 | nevcairiel | a lua table is a hybrid design of arrays and hashmaps |
| 19:46.32 | NightHawkTheSane | working through 'Programming in Lua' might be a good idea, http://www.lua.org/pil/ |
| 19:46.56 | cbreak | I found the lua refman to be very helpful |
| 19:46.58 | iSylvir | NightHawkTheSane: Well, the last tutorial I was on didin't benefit me, because I had no idea what I...fuck it, more reading time. |
| 19:47.01 | Jamash | hurpa durp going to D&D cya laters |
| 19:47.02 | cbreak | but you probably lack the background for that thing |
| 19:47.11 | malreth | ~jerg |
| 19:47.12 | purl | ACTION ZERG HERGING JERG MY BERG!!! |
| 19:47.13 | iSylvir | FUCKING NOOOOOO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
| 19:47.15 | alestane | It's usually adequate to consider it a hashMap, unless your notion of hashmaps is restricted to a particular kind of key. |
| 19:47.20 | iSylvir | I read the first like 3 pages there. |
| 19:47.21 | iSylvir | and got lost. |
| 19:47.22 | iSylvir | Q_Q |
| 19:47.33 | NightHawkTheSane | iSylvir: i'm not trying to be mean, it just looks like you really don't understand the fundamentals of programming. |
| 19:47.53 | iSylvir | I know. |
| 19:48.05 | iSylvir | And i honestly don't. |
| 19:48.07 | nevcairiel | alestane: well yeah, if you use table.insert that definition lacks a bit, though |
| 19:48.19 | malreth | iSylvir: i wouldn't say that... you seem to know something about programming, but not enough to know how to pick up new languages |
| 19:48.24 | iSylvir | As a slightly more complex example, the following program defines a function to compute the factorial of a given number, asks the user for a number, and prints its factorial: The hell is a factorial? |
| 19:48.28 | Cloudwolf | Isylvir i expect the simplest you can even get is www.lua.org/pil |
| 19:48.32 | alestane | What does table.insert have to do with it? |
| 19:48.37 | malreth | ~wiki factorial |
| 19:48.39 | eidolarr | go to wikipedia |
| 19:48.41 | Cloudwolf | it gets more complex when you start trying to code for wow |
| 19:48.48 | nevcairiel | alestane: if its a hashmap, how do you explain the shifting keys? :D |
| 19:48.54 | iSylvir | Malreth, you broke it. |
| 19:48.55 | iSylvir | Highfive. |
| 19:48.58 | iSylvir | Woah. |
| 19:49.10 | eidolarr | there are much better ways to learn basic programming than constantly poking an irc channel |
| 19:49.12 | alestane | That's a function of the table library , not of tables themselves. |
| 19:49.14 | malreth | purl, you're slow today |
| 19:49.43 | nevcairiel | Well, i guess. But its usually a function that list or array structures have, not hashmaps :d |
| 19:50.26 | cbreak | a map is an unordered key-value storage data structure |
| 19:50.32 | eidolarr | well you can "implement" an array with a hashmap soooo |
| 19:50.33 | nevcairiel | The point is you can use it as both |
| 19:50.38 | cbreak | a hashmap is a map that works by using hash-values of the key |
| 19:50.50 | cbreak | but neither has order, so inserting at a certain point makes no sense |
| 19:50.53 | nevcairiel | if you use it as a proper array, you get ordered data, that you can iterate over in order |
| 19:51.01 | cbreak | in lua, you have both a map part, and an array part |
| 19:51.07 | cbreak | so a dual role, as said above |
| 19:51.15 | alestane | shifting keys is just how table.insert deals with collisions...it distinguishes it from simply saying table[key] = value. |
| 19:51.22 | Xinhuan | ahh programmers... we argue about semantics all day :D |
| 19:51.26 | Cloudwolf | so a hashmap would be like strings for the key and an array is just numerical? |
| 19:51.29 | malreth | if only Iriel were still alive... he'd explain it all for us |
| 19:51.37 | nevcairiel | a hashmap works with every type of key |
| 19:51.42 | alestane | In Lua, you can use any value you WANT for the key. |
| 19:51.45 | cbreak | anything for keys (besides nil), and anything for values (besides nil) |
| 19:51.52 | nevcairiel | in java i would say everything that implements the hashCode() function =P |
| 19:52.23 | alestane | There are applications in which you want to construct a table in a certain way. |
| 19:53.04 | malreth | I construct them with the legs first. Legs are my favorite part. Also, instead of tables, I'm talking about women. |
| 19:53.31 | Cloudwolf | XD |
| 19:53.36 | Gnarfoz | you construct women? |
| 19:53.46 | malreth | i used to... until it landed me in prison |
| 19:54.06 | Gnarfoz | you're sure you're not talking about destroying them? |
| 19:54.14 | malreth | apparently, society frowns upon such acts |
| 19:54.30 | cbreak | it's the choice of the materials frankenstein |
| 19:54.30 | iSylvir | What is the event called in IRC when someone says your name? |
| 19:54.38 | nevcairiel | highlight |
| 19:54.39 | Cloudwolf | But how else am i gonna get a girl! wait a minute.... |
| 19:54.42 | cbreak | if you'd have used metal instead of biological parts, you'd be still free |
| 19:54.42 | iSylvir | thank you. |
| 19:54.59 | cbreak | iSylvir: it's called "stalking". :) |
| 19:55.06 | iSylvir | grr |
| 19:55.15 | iSylvir | i cant figure out how to enable 'pinging' me when someone says my name |
| 19:55.32 | Thunder_Child | depends on your client |
| 19:55.37 | iSylvir | mIRC |
| 19:55.59 | malreth | iSylvir: instead, you should work on having someone say your name when you are 'pinging' them |
| 19:56.02 | Xinhuan | well, the generally accepted naming for the feature in the IRC client is "highlight", but the IRC protocol doesn't define any such event |
| 19:56.07 | malreth | BADDA BOOM! |
| 19:56.26 | iSylvir | twitches |
| 19:56.32 | malreth | OOH AH! KNOW WHAT I'M SAYIN'? |
| 19:56.33 | iSylvir | Xinhuan: lolwut? |
| 19:56.42 | Cloudwolf | Isylar it depends on the clinet yoru using |
| 19:56.47 | nevcairiel | what he says, its a client-only feature |
| 19:56.50 | Cloudwolf | its client side not irc syntax side |
| 19:57.00 | iSylvir | i r srs cat, i r not Isylar |
| 19:57.02 | Lunessa | Space Shuttle launch as seen by skydivers - http://i.imgur.com/NwfUx.jpg |
| 19:57.14 | iSylvir | I know, does anyone use mIRC? |
| 19:57.15 | Cloudwolf | sorry isylvir its hard to type your name :P |
| 19:57.21 | iSylvir | o.o It is? |
| 19:57.24 | nevcairiel | tab-complete, another of those client-only features |
| 19:57.26 | Cloudwolf | for me any way |
| 19:57.27 | iSylvir | iSylvir, iSylvir, iSylvir, iSylvir |
| 19:57.37 | nevcairiel | i<tab> |
| 19:57.39 | nevcairiel | works fine |
| 19:57.43 | malreth | Lunessa: awesome! |
| 19:57.45 | nevcairiel | last-spoke order ftw :) |
| 19:57.59 | iSylvir | Matinence is extended again |
| 19:57.59 | durcyn | Rumplestiltskin, Rumplestiltskin, Rumplestiltskin? |
| 19:58.09 | iSylvir | 3PM PDT |
| 19:58.26 | Thunder_Child | iSylvir: tools _. address book -> highlight tab |
| 19:58.29 | Cloudwolf | ..... |
| 19:58.30 | iSylvir | Thanks. |
| 19:58.36 | Cloudwolf | bloody hell blizzard stop breaking everything you touch |
| 19:58.37 | Thunder_Child | ->* |
| 19:58.38 | malreth | Lunessa: more like the Space Shuttle as observed by invading six limbed aliens from space |
| 19:59.08 | Xinhuan | iSylvir: Mirc menu --> Help --> Contents |
| 19:59.15 | Xinhuan | then search for the word "Highlight" |
| 19:59.21 | Xinhuan | and read the topic called "Highlight" |
| 19:59.26 | Xinhuan | does that help? |
| 19:59.28 | Thunder_Child | late Xinhuan, i already said |
| 20:00.00 | Lunessa | malreth: still - that shot makes me want to jump out of a perfectly good airplane |
| 20:00.43 | malreth | i'm envious... that's like a once in a lifetime photo op |
| 20:01.00 | mikma | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm_lKAldiNU |
| 20:01.01 | Lunessa | Seriously. And .... it's beautiful. |
| 20:01.02 | iSylvir | WTB ping please |
| 20:01.06 | malreth | you could live your entire life for just that moment, and it wouldn't be a wasted life |
| 20:01.13 | nevcairiel | purl, ping iSylvir |
| 20:01.14 | purl | pong iSylvir |
| 20:01.16 | Thunder_Child | ping |
| 20:01.17 | iSylvir | D: |
| 20:01.20 | iSylvir | it wrks. |
| 20:01.35 | Xinhuan | it doesn't quite work when i set "xin" as my highlight |
| 20:01.53 | nevcairiel | why not? |
| 20:01.56 | nevcairiel | people say xin alot? |
| 20:01.59 | iSylvir | I kept mine isylvir. Please take the time to type out my full name. /rage |
| 20:02.03 | Xinhuan | because there's words like mixing, boxing and ace3 mixin |
| 20:02.04 | cbreak | Lunessa: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdUUx5FdySs |
| 20:02.09 | durcyn | nevcairiel: when they're fixing things |
| 20:02.13 | nevcairiel | Xinhuan: match on word boundarys |
| 20:02.16 | nevcairiel | srsly |
| 20:02.16 | iSylvir | Sigh. |
| 20:02.21 | iSylvir | still on matinence |
| 20:02.25 | iSylvir | 2 hours until realms are 'up' |
| 20:02.27 | Xinhuan | oh it doesn't solve the problem either |
| 20:02.28 | iSylvir | unless they extend it again |
| 20:02.46 | Xinhuan | mixin is an example word |
| 20:02.51 | nevcairiel | i have "nev", and i dont match stuff like "never" or whatever |
| 20:02.51 | mikma | xinhuan: then pick a nick we can pick you on! |
| 20:02.59 | Xinhuan | pfft |
| 20:02.59 | iSylvir | LOL! |
| 20:03.00 | iSylvir | kiwi win. |
| 20:03.02 | Adys | http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2010/06/google-voice-available-without.html |
| 20:03.09 | mikma | xinhuan: ni hao! chinese gold farmer |
| 20:03.23 | eidolarr | Adys: yeah i have google voice, it's pretty much the shit |
| 20:03.35 | eidolarr | free txts, check from web browser, etc |
| 20:03.49 | eidolarr | i wish it had free calls |
| 20:04.29 | Thunder_Child | and it has the added benefit of the most amusing transcripts |
| 20:04.56 | Lunessa | cbreak: nice. |
| 20:04.56 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI|mobile (~KarlKFI@166.205.141.113) |
| 20:05.07 | NightHawkTheSane | nevcairiel: i had 'hawk' for a while, as some people in another irc channel used to use that, but that got very problematic :P |
| 20:05.31 | mikma | then you went insane) |
| 20:05.34 | mikma | )=? |
| 20:05.46 | nevcairiel | people use hawk alot? |
| 20:05.59 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (smcn@c-174-52-104-121.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:06.00 | mikma | tony hawk hears it quite alot |
| 20:06.03 | Cloudwolf | WTB blizzard able to install a patch better |
| 20:06.42 | NightHawkTheSane | nevcairiel: often enough to be bothersome. |
| 20:06.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Proditor (Proditor@c80-217-94-243.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 20:07.15 | mikma | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuC6jeKjTdg#t=0m20s |
| 20:10.25 | Lunessa | mmm... TOU to read for logging into Battle.net. :) |
| 20:10.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 20:10.43 | Cloudwolf | heh lunessa maintenance is still going on D: |
| 20:10.58 | Cloudwolf | i think |
| 20:11.05 | eidolarr | yes |
| 20:11.07 | eidolarr | extended to 3pm |
| 20:11.18 | Lunessa | Yeah, it didn't let me actually get logged in. |
| 20:11.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (~chatzilla@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 20:13.02 | Cide | psh Lunessa |
| 20:13.06 | Cide | you act like I don't know your name |
| 20:13.12 | Cide | I've been stalking you for years. |
| 20:13.25 | iSylvir | ... |
| 20:13.27 | iSylvir | >_> |
| 20:13.42 | Lunessa | Excellent. Now I know why I keep finding all those cameras in my bathroom. |
| 20:13.59 | malreth | Lunessa: and why I keep stealing all the film |
| 20:14.04 | iSylvir | Anthony, of Irvine Calafornia, please don't stalk Lunessa, of Stockholm, Sweden? :O |
| 20:14.19 | iSylvir | .-. |
| 20:14.23 | Lunessa | .... |
| 20:14.25 | iSylvir | Â /whois has falied me. |
| 20:14.27 | iSylvir | failed* |
| 20:14.31 | Lunessa | Stockholm? |
| 20:14.32 | Cide | that's funny |
| 20:14.37 | Cide | since I live in stockholm and he doesn't |
| 20:14.38 | durcyn | that's enough out of you, Michael. |
| 20:14.42 | iSylvir | D: |
| 20:14.51 | iSylvir | Fancy. |
| 20:15.06 | Cide | and anthony? |
| 20:15.07 | *** join/#wowuidev DJJeff (~crazyjeff@S0106001e582ff89c.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 20:15.08 | Lunessa | I have a netmask on freenode. |
| 20:15.14 | iSylvir | fail. |
| 20:15.22 | DJJeff | realm maint extended untill 3? |
| 20:15.23 | iSylvir | Cide. |
| 20:15.24 | DJJeff | uber |
| 20:15.26 | DJJeff | fail |
| 20:15.27 | iSylvir | Â /whois Cide |
| 20:15.30 | Cide | yes |
| 20:15.33 | Cide | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:15.36 | durcyn | Lunessa: you're apparently connected to a stockholm ircd |
| 20:15.37 | iSylvir | Jeffery Wilkins |
| 20:15.42 | Cide | anthony.freenode.net :Irvine, CA, USA |
| 20:15.48 | DJJeff | iSylvir why did you post my name |
| 20:15.50 | DJJeff | in here |
| 20:15.53 | iSylvir | Because I'm stalking you. |
| 20:15.55 | DJJeff | that is not cool |
| 20:15.56 | iSylvir | and Whoising you. |
| 20:16.02 | DJJeff | anyone can whois |
| 20:16.14 | iSylvir | But it takes a real man to Whois and post it publicly? |
| 20:16.19 | DJJeff | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:16.26 | iSylvir | Lol? |
| 20:16.27 | olafski | ooh cool |
| 20:16.28 | olafski | now do me djjeff |
| 20:16.33 | durcyn | kids. |
| 20:16.46 | DJJeff | [1:16:44p] -> [olafski] VERSION |
| 20:16.50 | Cide | I want to legally change my name to Unknown. |
| 20:16.59 | Lunessa | Cide, that would rule. |
| 20:17.12 | Cide | "what's your name?" "Unknown" "..." |
| 20:17.16 | Cide | would be awesome at airports |
| 20:17.18 | Lunessa | Change your last name to Entity, then get arrested in the USA. |
| 20:17.22 | DJJeff | pokes olafski |
| 20:17.24 | DJJeff | stop |
| 20:17.26 | DJJeff | hiding |
| 20:17.27 | DJJeff | X_X |
| 20:17.28 | iSylvir | Aww...Cairenn has his name listed as 'purple' |
| 20:17.33 | Cide | haha, yeah, Lunessa |
| 20:17.40 | malreth | iSylvir: her |
| 20:17.42 | malreth | her name |
| 20:17.44 | iSylvir | doood. |
| 20:17.51 | iSylvir | Didn't know Cairenn was a woman .-. |
| 20:17.57 | Cide | omg |
| 20:18.00 | iSylvir | >_> |
| 20:18.01 | Lunessa | iSylvir: Good thing she's away then, no? |
| 20:18.02 | Cide | someone alert the internets |
| 20:18.02 | iSylvir | <_< |
| 20:18.06 | malreth | be very glad she's afk |
| 20:18.15 | iSylvir | Well, you cant see boobs over the internet. |
| 20:18.15 | NightHawkTheSane | i'd make a comment about it being a feminine name, but Lunessa's a guy so that doesn't really work |
| 20:18.16 | iSylvir | or hear voices. |
| 20:18.25 | iSylvir | and I haven't exactly talked to her extensively. |
| 20:18.26 | durcyn | NightHawkTheSane: but he's a very sexy man, so it works |
| 20:18.31 | NightHawkTheSane | durcyn: touche. |
| 20:18.32 | Cide | Lunessa has virtual boobs |
| 20:18.35 | malreth | Seerah is also a girl. A real girl. |
| 20:18.37 | Lunessa | .... You can too see boobs over the internet |
| 20:18.37 | iSylvir | I have man boobs. |
| 20:18.44 | iSylvir | .-. |
| 20:18.50 | malreth | So is Shirik |
| 20:19.02 | Cide | yeah |
| 20:19.13 | Cide | poor matthewena thought she was a guy for most of her life |
| 20:19.15 | Cloudwolf | ok honest question. If blizzard doesn't support swearing as its a violation of tos why do they have an option to turn off the swear filter? |
| 20:19.15 | DJJeff | olafski did I just CTCP FINGER you? |
| 20:19.16 | iSylvir | lulz. |
| 20:19.27 | olafski | I have no idea djjeff |
| 20:19.30 | Seerah | malreth: I hope you were joking about Shirik ;) |
| 20:19.36 | malreth | Cloudwolf: because the filter is not an excuse to violate the ToS |
| 20:19.37 | olafski | if you did I didn't feel it |
| 20:19.40 | iSylvir | Jeff. |
| 20:19.43 | iSylvir | I was unable to finger you. |
| 20:19.51 | iSylvir | I couldn't connect to your finger server |
| 20:19.52 | iSylvir | .-. |
| 20:19.54 | Cide | high class humor in here guys |
| 20:20.00 | Cloudwolf | Shouldn't it logicly be that there is no option to turn off the swear filter? |
| 20:20.00 | iSylvir | x3 |
| 20:20.07 | Lunessa | I am, indeed, a very sexy bald man. http://blizzcon.norganna.org/main.php/v/blizzcon2009/Misc/Dinner/IMG_1745.jpg.html |
| 20:20.08 | Seerah | tries not to giggle |
| 20:20.09 | DJJeff | [iSylvir FINGER reply]: Michael (iSylvir@aol.com) Idle 7 seconds |
| 20:20.10 | Cloudwolf | Not that the swearfiler is i in place so that you can swear |
| 20:20.12 | malreth | Cloudwolf: no. |
| 20:20.22 | iSylvir | Lunessa, the bald man is you? |
| 20:20.25 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: you should label that as nsfw :p |
| 20:20.25 | Cloudwolf | why? |
| 20:20.38 | iSylvir | You seem more...femenine... over the internet |
| 20:20.41 | Cide | why not? |
| 20:20.45 | Lunessa | NightHawkTheSane: That would be pretty funny |
| 20:20.48 | Cide | the swear filter is stupid |
| 20:20.56 | iSylvir | you sorta look like if you ditched the glasses and donned a black bandanna, you'd kill someone. |
| 20:20.59 | malreth | iSylvir: he seems that way because he's rational |
| 20:21.11 | DJJeff | iSylvir is that your aol addy? |
| 20:21.17 | Cloudwolf | If they do not condone swearing and it violates the TOS then why give players hte option to turn off the swear filter? |
| 20:21.17 | DJJeff | you have a finger server? |
| 20:21.22 | Cloudwolf | thats my question |
| 20:21.23 | Lunessa | iSylvir: I do wear bandannas, and I shot a man in Reno... |
| 20:21.37 | Seerah | http://blizzcon.norganna.org/main.php/v/blizzcon2008/Faces/ |
| 20:21.39 | eidolarr | Cloudwolf: because it's annoying |
| 20:21.43 | Cide | because it's only an offense if someone gets offended by it |
| 20:22.02 | Cide | hence in controlled groups swearing is perfectly fine |
| 20:22.13 | DJJeff | http://blizzcon.norganna.org/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1238&g2_serialNumber=2 |
| 20:22.17 | DJJeff | X_X |
| 20:22.24 | eidolarr | Cloudwolf: also they don't restrict guild chat |
| 20:22.34 | malreth | or private channels |
| 20:22.38 | olafski | also for guilds that are not english, people might be annoyed if the filter keeps filtering words that are perfectly fine in that language |
| 20:22.40 | Seerah | now hide those pictures before Cairenn kills ya! |
| 20:23.20 | malreth | Shirik looks exactly how i imagined him... with a brain the size of a planet and a HUUUUGE cock of a voice. |
| 20:23.27 | iSylvir | wait |
| 20:23.30 | eidolarr | or people get annoyed when it filters dumb shit like the "butt" in "button" |
| 20:23.36 | Cide | http://ctscreens.net/4985 |
| 20:23.47 | Dagmar | eidolarr: I love grape soda. |
| 20:23.47 | malreth | or cockles |
| 20:24.03 | Dagmar | ...or bastard sword. |
| 20:24.35 | eidolarr | the sc2 filter was pretty bad too if i remember right |
| 20:24.43 | Dagmar | The real solution isn't to filter the chat... it's to filter the userds. |
| 20:24.57 | eidolarr | idk the current system seems to work just fine |
| 20:25.00 | iSylvir | http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/iSylvir/100411-162024.jpg don't mind the dibilitating scar on my chin, that's gone now. |
| 20:25.05 | Cide | http://ctscreens.net/360 |
| 20:25.05 | Dagmar | Usertards will insist on misspelling things just so their cute little naughty words will still show up on other people's screens. |
| 20:25.06 | NightHawkTheSane | Cide: surreal, a rogue in my guild is 'Zepyon' too.. |
| 20:25.08 | Cide | anyone remember this? |
| 20:25.09 | malreth | or shitake mushroom |
| 20:25.14 | Cide | NightHawkTheSane, yes, that's from alleria |
| 20:25.34 | Cide | actually it may not be |
| 20:25.37 | Cide | that may be from doomhammer |
| 20:25.46 | Dagmar | So... I firmly believe in a Three Strikes And You're Out policy. |
| 20:25.50 | Cide | the latter screenshot is from alleria |
| 20:25.53 | olafski | that looks like a good feature cide |
| 20:25.57 | Cide | it was |
| 20:25.58 | olafski | being able to mark people "trevor" |
| 20:26.01 | Cide | it was epic |
| 20:26.13 | Cide | actually /ratrevor played the magical trevor music |
| 20:26.17 | Cide | for everyone |
| 20:26.18 | olafski | :) |
| 20:26.19 | Cloudwolf | LOL wiat what? |
| 20:26.21 | Dagmar | If as user is found guilty of being a complete cocktard three times, an "enforcer" will be dispatched to "take them out" using all-natural, completly human, cricket bats. |
| 20:26.23 | Cloudwolf | TOS section 16 |
| 20:26.24 | Cide | with trevor dancing in time |
| 20:26.33 | eidolarr | lol |
| 20:26.34 | eidolarr | wow |
| 20:26.53 | eidolarr | that's excellent |
| 20:27.04 | Cide | yes, yes it was |
| 20:27.10 | Cide | also see the gmotd |
| 20:27.13 | Cloudwolf | unforseen circumstances or cause beyond blizzard's controls cuh as acts of God, war, terrosim, riots, embargoes, acts of civl or miliatry authoriteis, fire, floods, accidents, strikes, shortages of transporation facilities, fuel, energy, labor or materials |
| 20:27.33 | iSylvir | Or .50 Calibur bullets. |
| 20:27.36 | malreth | typical CYA lawyer bullshit. |
| 20:27.38 | iSylvir | Those tend to bar success very effectively |
| 20:27.59 | Cloudwolf | I find it funny(personally) that god is mentioned first |
| 20:28.04 | Dagmar | Cloudwolf: THey forgot murderous clown rampages. |
| 20:28.07 | Dagmar | I'm suing. |
| 20:28.50 | Lunessa | my office mate had BBQ for lunch, and the entire place smells of smoked brisket and tangy sauce. So. Hungry. Now. |
| 20:28.59 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: you should bbq and eat him |
| 20:29.09 | Lunessa | NightHawkTheSane: I don't like pork. |
| 20:29.13 | iSylvir | Lack of Materials? Oh sorry guys, forgot my pencil. Call off the patch and all the work we put in on it. |
| 20:29.19 | malreth | "Act of God" has a very specific legal meaning that essentially translates as "All of the Above" |
| 20:29.31 | Dagmar | Well, not all of *those* things |
| 20:29.32 | Cloudwolf | Ok i'm gonna be ajerk here and say couldn't anything that happens be seen as an act of god in in a sense they are not liable for any delay or failure to perform |
| 20:29.34 | iSylvir | or Divine Intervention |
| 20:29.38 | iSylvir | or Divine Intervention |
| 20:29.39 | iSylvir | or Divine Intervention |
| 20:29.41 | iSylvir | :) |
| 20:29.43 | Dagmar | Those other things in the list are generally not "Acts of God". |
| 20:29.53 | Dagmar | A flood... act of god. |
| 20:29.57 | iSylvir | lol |
| 20:30.03 | iSylvir | Plague/Disease = Act of God |
| 20:30.04 | cbreak | a flood is act of weather. |
| 20:30.05 | iSylvir | Win. |
| 20:30.12 | malreth | Meteor impact... act of God |
| 20:30.17 | iSylvir | Acts of Civil or Military Authorities = Act of God |
| 20:30.17 | Dagmar | cbreak: Nah, as far as the law is concerned it's an act of god. |
| 20:30.20 | iSylvir | War = Act of God |
| 20:30.20 | cbreak | plague/disease: act of the US military biotech group |
| 20:30.21 | Cloudwolf | what about terrorists dieing for their god? O.o |
| 20:30.24 | iSylvir | Terrorism = Act of God |
| 20:30.31 | Dagmar | Good luckl filing an insurance claim when your home washes away in a flood. |
| 20:30.33 | iSylvir | Accidents = Act of God (Win.) |
| 20:30.47 | cbreak | what kind of stupid law mentions god? |
| 20:30.56 | iSylvir | Almost every one of them. |
| 20:31.02 | Dagmar | Festering craploads of case precedent. |
| 20:31.09 | iSylvir | <Act of God> is used as syntax for an unforseen circumstance of bad luck. |
| 20:31.26 | iSylvir | IE: A branch falls on your car, it's an Act of God and covered by your insurance. |
| 20:31.31 | iSylvir | It's a pretty loose term. |
| 20:31.37 | iSylvir | And that's the whole purpose. |
| 20:31.44 | Dagmar | Like, one of the things plaguing people in Louisiana after Katrina was that insurance companies are untrustworthy bastards. |
| 20:31.50 | Cide | I'll punch you in the face |
| 20:31.51 | Dagmar | Home destroyed by storm, then flood comes along. |
| 20:31.52 | Cide | is that an act of god? |
| 20:31.57 | iSylvir | Yes. |
| 20:31.58 | iSylvir | Sadly. |
| 20:32.05 | Dagmar | Insurance company is liable for home destroyed by storm, but not by flood. |
| 20:32.08 | Cide | sweet |
| 20:32.13 | Cide | so I'm god then |
| 20:32.26 | malreth | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMnpWYaCKB0 |
| 20:32.32 | iSylvir | I scream GOD DAMNIT as the fist hits me. As I hit the ground, my brain bashes against the back of my skull, I die, and I get to spend quality time in purgatory. /cheer; Fuck you Cide. |
| 20:32.37 | Dagmar | State Farm actually tried to renege on a shedload of policies, demanding people prove the *storm* wrecked their place and not the fact that shortly thereafter it was all underwater. |
| 20:32.40 | malreth | i want ice cream now... and a kitten |
| 20:33.03 | DJJeff | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbRKCc3bmis |
| 20:33.22 | iSylvir | I lol'd Dagmar. |
| 20:33.43 | iSylvir | No, by all means, the lightning's strike didn't wreck my home, it was the fire caused by it. |
| 20:33.45 | Lunessa | malreth: and whiskey? |
| 20:33.52 | Dagmar | iSylvir: Oh the better part is that they found out why it's not a good idea to tell people who are a) homeless and b) really pissed to go "prove" naything |
| 20:34.03 | Dagmar | They'll show up on your office doorstep and shake people by shirtcollars |
| 20:34.15 | iSylvir | Asking where their family is? |
| 20:34.17 | alestane | Freeze a cat, combine the two. |
| 20:34.21 | iSylvir | Or if they posess your family? |
| 20:34.27 | malreth | I should name my next cat "Whiskey" |
| 20:34.28 | Dagmar | "I WAS IN THE DAMN THING WHEN THE STORM TOOK THE ROOF OFF IT YA ARSEHOLE!" |
| 20:34.38 | iSylvir | x3 |
| 20:34.40 | iSylvir | bed time |
| 20:34.47 | iSylvir | Nu-nights. |
| 20:35.13 | DJJeff | ................. |
| 20:35.21 | DJJeff | keeps pressing F5 on http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/realmstatus/ |
| 20:35.29 | DJJeff | (sigh) |
| 20:35.46 | malreth | DJJeff: Stop that... it slows down the maintenance |
| 20:36.04 | DJJeff | and the realm status page is never right anyways |
| 20:36.06 | DJJeff | so |
| 20:36.14 | DJJeff | why have it |
| 20:36.15 | Cloudwolf | time to watch WOTLK cinimatic |
| 20:36.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (~Kandoko@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 20:36.31 | Cloudwolf | djjeff not only are the realms down till 3 |
| 20:36.35 | Cloudwolf | but so is battle.net |
| 20:36.39 | DJJeff | time to watch cataclysm trailor on youtube |
| 20:36.55 | Ackis | realms up up! |
| 20:36.56 | Ackis | not! |
| 20:36.57 | Ackis | lulz |
| 20:37.07 | Ackis | I'm so original |
| 20:37.11 | DJJeff | Cloudwolf: your wrong..... think uswest @ broodwars are down? |
| 20:37.17 | DJJeff | not! |
| 20:37.20 | DJJeff | noob please |
| 20:37.30 | Cloudwolf | I'm use west and i can't log in |
| 20:37.43 | DJJeff | it doesnt like you |
| 20:37.49 | DJJeff | I am online on starcraft BW |
| 20:37.56 | Lunessa | malreth: and your next dog "Tango" |
| 20:38.36 | malreth | nods |
| 20:39.23 | DJJeff | which is better.... altaholic or ark invintory? |
| 20:39.35 | Dagmar | Apples or coconuts, man |
| 20:39.53 | DJJeff | you put the lime in the coconut |
| 20:39.57 | Cloudwolf | i like ark inveintory personally but yeah they are diffenrt |
| 20:39.58 | DJJeff | and drink it all up |
| 20:40.10 | DJJeff | then call me in the morning |
| 20:40.15 | Torhal | ... |
| 20:40.17 | Dagmar | I like Ark enough to start with it and see if there's something left over it didn't handle |
| 20:40.17 | Torhal | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:40.19 | DJJeff | I said doctor!!!! |
| 20:40.37 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@c-68-33-146-13.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 20:40.40 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 20:40.41 | DJJeff | you put the lime in the coconut |
| 20:40.42 | DJJeff | and drink it all up |
| 20:40.58 | Lunessa | Welcome to my /ignore list. #2 in history. |
| 20:41.09 | DJJeff | whos #1 ? |
| 20:41.58 | Mihau | Who does number two work for?! |
| 20:41.59 | DJJeff | there is /ignore on irc? |
| 20:42.10 | Mihau | Yes. |
| 20:42.12 | Dagmar | Built into every IRC client that doesn't suck |
| 20:42.12 | DJJeff | I didnt know that |
| 20:42.12 | cbreak | it's client side probably |
| 20:42.12 | Spejnar | no but in your client there is |
| 20:42.18 | eidolarr | funny for anyone who has played left 4 dead: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OA-eXTgv2g |
| 20:42.20 | Spejnar | pretty sure the irc protocol dont have that |
| 20:42.24 | Spejnar | you can always go read the RFc |
| 20:42.32 | Mihau | Some IRC services have it. |
| 20:42.40 | Spejnar | IRC is a protocol. |
| 20:42.49 | Dagmar | I'm very goddam sure where that functionality is and isn't. |
| 20:42.55 | alestane | Muppet Labs today announced the recall of the hospital bed used in the "Lime and the coconut" production number. The beds were manufactured on an assembly line formerly used to make pop-up toasters." |
| 20:43.14 | Dagmar | alestane: Ah doon' get it |
| 20:43.32 | DJJeff | and if your gonna put me on ignore dont brag about it |
| 20:43.35 | DJJeff | just do it |
| 20:43.42 | DJJeff | I am not gonna loose sleep over it |
| 20:43.47 | DJJeff | or /wrist |
| 20:43.56 | Dagmar | Yo. Less enter, more spacebar. |
| 20:43.57 | Lunessa | alestane: lulz. |
| 20:44.02 | malreth | and yet here you are... commenting on it |
| 20:45.07 | DJJeff | now I wish I didnt sell my steam account... or I would be playing left 4 dead |
| 20:45.27 | DJJeff | I wanna kill some zombies oh and repair windows too |
| 20:46.01 | cbreak | I want to play SC2 or the new DeusEx. |
| 20:46.17 | DJJeff | SC2 is out soon |
| 20:46.18 | Maldivia | DJJeff: for the first, there's always PvZ as well :P |
| 20:46.21 | eidolarr | dx2? |
| 20:46.41 | cbreak | there is no such thing as DeusEx2! |
| 20:46.48 | DJJeff | I wonder if diablo 2 is gonna be like leauge of lengends only more diablo like |
| 20:46.54 | DJJeff | X_X |
| 20:47.00 | DJJeff | errrr |
| 20:47.01 | DJJeff | diablo 3 |
| 20:47.14 | eidolarr | that is such a dumb thing to say |
| 20:47.17 | eidolarr | i am speechless |
| 20:47.23 | Dagmar | No, you're not. |
| 20:47.29 | Dagmar | ...but I feel ya. |
| 20:49.05 | DJJeff | I miss playing GunZ the duel and Gunbound |
| 20:49.29 | DJJeff | very popular in internet/cyber cafes |
| 20:50.04 | MoonWitch | Ackis: ping? |
| 20:50.06 | Cloudwolf | cant you still play em djjeff? |
| 20:50.20 | DJJeff | gunbound reminds me of the MS DOS game scorched earth |
| 20:50.39 | DJJeff | and yes I could.... but real life friends stopped playing |
| 20:51.10 | Cloudwolf | pshh real life... XD |
| 20:51.29 | Ackis | MoonWitch: pong |
| 20:51.37 | MoonWitch | wasn't your bad ;) |
| 20:51.40 | MoonWitch | It's nothing big |
| 20:51.50 | DJJeff | anyone seriously ever play this..... |
| 20:51.51 | DJJeff | http://www.geekshow.us/wp/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/scorched_earth.png |
| 20:52.13 | NightHawkTheSane | I |
| 20:52.14 | DJJeff | fighting over 1 keyboard with 8 people |
| 20:52.21 | Ackis | MoonWitch: I felt like a dolt lol |
| 20:52.26 | MoonWitch | lol Ackis |
| 20:52.32 | MoonWitch | basically it is a bit like holidays |
| 20:52.33 | NightHawkTheSane | I'd be a little surprised if anyone reasonably old enough hadn't played some variation of it. |
| 20:52.37 | DJJeff | deaths head and they would cry |
| 20:52.44 | Ackis | MoonWitch: but not as fun :P |
| 20:52.47 | MoonWitch | true |
| 20:52.55 | MoonWitch | but recovery should be swift |
| 20:52.59 | MoonWitch | just 5 days hospital |
| 20:53.05 | MoonWitch | AND I has laptop and internetz |
| 20:53.06 | krka | i played scorched earth about 15 years ago i think |
| 20:53.07 | Ackis | that's not too bad then |
| 20:53.08 | alestane | I remember Scorched Earth. |
| 20:53.23 | krka | not exactly sure about the time frame i guess |
| 20:53.29 | krka | pretty awesome game |
| 20:53.38 | DJJeff | you could edit the config file and start with 99999999 $ |
| 20:53.41 | krka | maybe it's closer to 20 years actually O_o |
| 20:53.44 | MoonWitch | which reminds me -- some dude from Panda south africa opened chatroulette at work, he didn't know what it was |
| 20:53.48 | DJJeff | have 99 of everything |
| 20:53.50 | Lunessa | MoonWitch: Surgery? |
| 20:54.07 | NightHawkTheSane | krka: well, it's something like 20 years old, so.. :P |
| 20:54.25 | DJJeff | Lunessa: who is on your #1 ignore list? |
| 20:54.29 | krka | just makes me feel old |
| 20:55.21 | DJJeff | oooooooo realms are back up :) |
| 20:55.27 | DJJeff | peace everyone |
| 20:55.31 | Cloudwolf | Orly? |
| 20:55.35 | DJJeff | yes sir |
| 20:56.32 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 20:56.35 | Cloudwolf | effing unable to connect pealse try again later erorr |
| 20:56.40 | Cloudwolf | stop giving emt hat erorr |
| 20:56.53 | Gnarfoz | guess what, later means "not in 3s" |
| 20:57.08 | Cloudwolf | i tried like an hour ago |
| 20:57.09 | DJJeff | Cloudwolf: check your realmlist.wtf ? |
| 20:57.12 | Cloudwolf | D: |
| 20:57.19 | Cloudwolf | i havn't touched my realmlist.wtf ever |
| 20:57.32 | DJJeff | wanna pastebin your copy? |
| 20:57.38 | DJJeff | so I can compare with mine |
| 20:58.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik_ (d1d8a3bb@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 20:58.20 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik_] by ChanServ |
| 20:58.25 | Cloudwolf | your on us west right djjeff? |
| 20:58.34 | DJJeff | I wonder if with the realm resets that stupid AT&T level3 shit is fixed |
| 20:58.38 | Shirik_ | curses at C# |
| 20:58.58 | DJJeff | I am on US Realms Cloudwolf |
| 20:58.59 | DJJeff | yes |
| 20:59.10 | DJJeff | please pastebin your realmlist.wtf file for me |
| 20:59.15 | DJJeff | so I can compare mine |
| 20:59.36 | Cloudwolf | http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/realmstatus/compat.html |
| 20:59.38 | Cloudwolf | says they are all down |
| 20:59.43 | Cloudwolf | O.o |
| 21:00.03 | Cloudwolf | http://pastebin.com/jbM1D1J2 |
| 21:00.34 | DJJeff | ok they match odd |
| 21:01.02 | DJJeff | I might be having DNS issues then I dunno |
| 21:01.22 | Cloudwolf | how would i check XD |
| 21:01.52 | Lunessa | http://googlemobile.blogspot.com/2010/06/google-voice-for-everyone.html |
| 21:02.21 | DJJeff | ping the ip of the wow master realm login thingy |
| 21:02.28 | DJJeff | Im not sure |
| 21:02.30 | Cloudwolf | whats hte ip? |
| 21:02.42 | DJJeff | isnt there a wowwiki on all the ips |
| 21:02.51 | Gnarfoz | Cloudwolf: it's maintenance, they're not up, why waste time pinging or checking anything? |
| 21:03.03 | DJJeff | Gnarfoz: shhhhhh |
| 21:03.07 | DJJeff | please |
| 21:03.11 | DJJeff | im entertaining him |
| 21:03.12 | DJJeff | :) |
| 21:03.13 | Cloudwolf | meh |
| 21:03.19 | Cloudwolf | fuck you djjeff ... :P |
| 21:03.26 | DJJeff | almost had you going |
| 21:03.29 | Gnarfoz | wasting precious IRC bytes! |
| 21:03.29 | DJJeff | that was awesome |
| 21:03.36 | Shirik_ | cog|away: kill C# for me please |
| 21:04.05 | DJJeff | people can code Lua scripts but dont know dick all about networking and TCP/IP |
| 21:04.15 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: Antiarc mentioned that a few hours ago. :P |
| 21:04.31 | Lunessa | I missed it, sorry. |
| 21:04.33 | Gnarfoz | DJJeff: you belong in which of those two bins? |
| 21:04.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Gotai (~Gotai@ip54546435.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl) |
| 21:04.42 | DJJeff | Antiarc ?? he coded sexymap :) |
| 21:05.09 | DJJeff | Gnarfoz I am a networking genious I can take the blue CAT5E cable and put the ends on :) |
| 21:05.18 | DJJeff | and hardwire a whole building with CAT5E |
| 21:05.23 | Cide | Shirik_, done |
| 21:05.29 | Gnarfoz | how do you softwire anything? |
| 21:05.29 | nevcairiel | that defines being a genious already? |
| 21:05.34 | Shirik_ | thank you Cide |
| 21:05.38 | Gnarfoz | also, how does a genius misspell genius |
| 21:05.45 | nevcairiel | i mean, putting a rj45 on a cat5e isnt magic |
| 21:05.48 | eidolarr | Lunessa: google voice is sweet, i accidentally had it forwarding txtx to me for awhile though and eating up my txts |
| 21:06.02 | eidolarr | to my undersatnding if you add your google voice # to friends & family, you get unlimited minutes |
| 21:06.12 | eidolarr | when you call through it of course |
| 21:06.13 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: it's BLUE cat5e, you know. |
| 21:06.15 | Thunder_Child | Gnarfoz: because you are exceptionally smart in one or two things, not everything |
| 21:06.16 | DJJeff | nevcairiel: you need the wires inside to in the right order |
| 21:06.21 | DJJeff | or they wont work |
| 21:06.30 | nevcairiel | obviously |
| 21:06.32 | Gnarfoz | Thunder_Child: you don't need to be exceptionally smart to spell correctly, do you? :| |
| 21:06.40 | nevcairiel | i have done my fair char of cables =P |
| 21:06.45 | Arrowmaster | put an rj45 on a cat7 IS magic though |
| 21:06.50 | nevcairiel | share* |
| 21:06.53 | Thunder_Child | Gnarfoz: no, but you dont have to be able to spell to be a genius |
| 21:06.58 | Thunder_Child | is my point |
| 21:07.12 | DJJeff | cat6 is gonna be gigabit ethernet? |
| 21:07.13 | nevcairiel | Arrowmaster: yeah, silly cat7 are not nice to handle |
| 21:07.19 | Gnarfoz | while that may be true, I maintain my point that he probably isn't one. :D |
| 21:07.23 | nevcairiel | 5e is already gigabit capable |
| 21:07.32 | malreth | GigE can go over Cat 5e |
| 21:07.34 | Gnarfoz | Arrowmaster: you just need more force, arrrrrghh |
| 21:07.35 | nevcairiel | i thought you knew your networking =P |
| 21:07.59 | DJJeff | I am still learning the new stuff |
| 21:08.07 | DJJeff | its not residential yet |
| 21:08.12 | DJJeff | only commercial |
| 21:08.13 | Gnarfoz | there's nothing new about cat7 *shrug* |
| 21:08.19 | NightHawkTheSane | ... gigabit ethernet is not residential? |
| 21:08.25 | NightHawkTheSane | shit, better not tell that to my home network. |
| 21:08.38 | NightHawkTheSane | or, most home pcs manufactured in the past 5 years. |
| 21:08.41 | nevcairiel | I still have alot of spare cat7 in some box that i never got around to use |
| 21:08.53 | DJJeff | new mobos are still 10/100 not 10/100/1000 |
| 21:08.58 | Gnarfoz | bs. |
| 21:09.04 | nevcairiel | really? |
| 21:09.12 | nevcairiel | i havent seen a 10/100 for years |
| 21:09.16 | nevcairiel | everyone has gbit now |
| 21:09.18 | Gnarfoz | except if you live inside a time-dilation field that adjust to about -6 years |
| 21:09.28 | DJJeff | gbit is backwards compat |
| 21:09.31 | NightHawkTheSane | nevcairiel: my netbook only had a 10/100.. |
| 21:09.41 | Gnarfoz | NightHawkTheSane: is your netbook "a mobo"? |
| 21:09.44 | Arrowmaster | i still have 10/100 |
| 21:09.45 | nevcairiel | netbooks are not PCs |
| 21:09.48 | Antiarc | I've got 10/100 in my house |
| 21:09.49 | Dagmar | That's a netbook. ...not an ATX motherboard. |
| 21:09.50 | Thunder_Child | netbook does not a computer make |
| 21:09.51 | NightHawkTheSane | nevcairiel: indeed :) |
| 21:09.53 | DJJeff | its all wireless N now |
| 21:09.59 | malreth | hey... there's only enough room on this channel for one liar and i was here first |
| 21:09.59 | Gnarfoz | you wish |
| 21:10.00 | nevcairiel | wireless sucks |
| 21:10.10 | Gnarfoz | malreth: liar |
| 21:10.13 | nevcairiel | nothing can beat a good gbit wire connection |
| 21:10.15 | Dagmar | nevcariel: Move away from the microwave oven testing facility |
| 21:10.44 | DJJeff | try and get apples ipad onto gbit wired |
| 21:10.45 | nevcairiel | except maybe a fiber 10GbE connection! |
| 21:10.46 | DJJeff | X_X |
| 21:10.48 | Dagmar | nevcariel: Good luck taking a whiz mid-raid with yer wires |
| 21:10.51 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: what he said applies |
| 21:11.06 | nevcairiel | Dagmar: so? long cables! |
| 21:11.09 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: well, if you get long enough wires |
| 21:11.09 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 21:11.11 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: also, getting up, and returning, are not new inventions |
| 21:11.17 | nevcairiel | also, i would have a hard time carrying my PC and LCD around |
| 21:11.25 | NightHawkTheSane | ^^ |
| 21:11.47 | NightHawkTheSane | nevcairiel: better solution, just install the appropriate plumbing at your computer desk. |
| 21:11.58 | Maldivia | nevcairiel: get an eee, mac mini, or similar then :P |
| 21:12.02 | nevcairiel | thats probably a rather disturbing image |
| 21:12.12 | Lunessa | Catheterization... the new solution to an old problem. |
| 21:12.17 | NightHawkTheSane | nevcairiel: i like how you said 'probably' ;) |
| 21:12.19 | Dagmar | That whole "laptops don't generally have numpads" thing kinda bit me in the ass last night. |
| 21:12.19 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: 5GHz 11n/a would at least fix the "it's hindering itself" situation, but even then I'd prefer a cable ;p |
| 21:12.32 | Dagmar | DPSing Ahune on my DK... who has all his important stuff bound to numpad keys... |
| 21:13.21 | Dagmar | Copied my config over, went in... YAY 400 DPS |
| 21:13.21 | Gnarfoz | well, press numlock |
| 21:13.21 | nevcairiel | a is too slow, its just 54mbit |
| 21:13.21 | malreth | my DPS sucks on Ahune because i'm to lazy to respec my frost mage |
| 21:13.21 | nevcairiel | whats n .. 300mbit theoretical? |
| 21:13.24 | Antiarc | My downstream is only 20mbit from the ISP |
| 21:13.27 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: depends on how many MIMO channels you bundle |
| 21:13.34 | nevcairiel | so sustained rate of .. 100? |
| 21:13.35 | Dagmar | Gnarfoz: So again... no numpad on the laptop. |
| 21:13.38 | nevcairiel | tops |
| 21:13.40 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: numlock |
| 21:13.49 | Arrowmaster | Fn-lock |
| 21:13.50 | Gnarfoz | Antiarc: so? 54mbit wlan doesn't net that much |
| 21:14.00 | nevcairiel | 54mbit gives you 15, tops |
| 21:14.13 | Gnarfoz | Arrowmaster: he doesn't have shit bound to fn keys, it's still numlock ;p |
| 21:14.22 | nevcairiel | stupid wireless has so a bad overhead |
| 21:14.42 | DJJeff | Antiarc: I have a question about SEXYMAP..... I can move my buttons around the minimap great.... I restart wow unlock them again and they wont budge whats up with that? |
| 21:14.53 | Maldivia | nevcairiel: n is 150Mbit per stream, so up to 600Mbit with 4 streams |
| 21:15.03 | Antiarc | Not a clue. Maybe a conflict with another mod? |
| 21:15.04 | DJJeff | deleteing the profile and trying again doesnt fix the issue |
| 21:15.14 | nevcairiel | GbE is 1000Mbit over one cable |
| 21:15.19 | nevcairiel | clearly, superiour =) |
| 21:15.20 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 21:15.49 | DJJeff | also curious if you plan any updates or skins for sexymap |
| 21:15.54 | DJJeff | its a great addon |
| 21:15.58 | nevcairiel | wireless is good for mobile appliances, not for high-bandwidth applications |
| 21:15.59 | Lunessa | All I want to know is WTF are you doing that you need that much bandwidth all at once? |
| 21:16.04 | Antiarc | Well, it's designed for anyone to be able to make skins for it |
| 21:16.13 | Antiarc | The prepackaged ones are just really supposed to get you started |
| 21:16.16 | DJJeff | true enough :) |
| 21:16.17 | nevcairiel | I would get it on my laptop, that i juts use a browser on and maybe chatting |
| 21:16.18 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: neither high-bandwidth nor low-latency, sadly |
| 21:16.35 | DJJeff | is there a page with user submitted skins? |
| 21:16.39 | Lunessa | I mean, how the fuck much porn can you watch at once? |
| 21:16.43 | nevcairiel | but as soon as i need something more, on my workstation, htpc, or fileserver .. no way for wireless |
| 21:16.46 | Fisker | you can't stop me Gnarfoz |
| 21:17.09 | Gnarfoz | Fisker: indeed, son, I intend to support you!\ |
| 21:17.24 | DJJeff | you can setup a LAN party and get away with only a 10MBPS wired |
| 21:17.25 | DJJeff | and be ok |
| 21:17.30 | nevcairiel | Lunessa: a bluray untouched has up to 40mbit raw data, that needs a proper connection |
| 21:17.35 | nevcairiel | DJJeff: for playing, sure |
| 21:17.51 | Fisker | no dad, no! |
| 21:18.03 | Lunessa | nevcairiel: Ah. I don't have a BluRay player or files. |
| 21:18.09 | DJJeff | Antiarc: is there a page with user submitted skins? |
| 21:18.15 | eidolarr | in unix how do you do a for loop on a block of text delimited by newlines? |
| 21:18.16 | nevcairiel | Dont need to, internetz has those too ;d |
| 21:18.16 | Antiarc | No, because nobody submits them :P |
| 21:18.29 | Fisker | hey Antiarc |
| 21:18.32 | Fisker | wanna swap nexuses? |
| 21:18.40 | Antiarc | nope, I like mine! |
| 21:18.42 | malreth | eidolarr: one sec |
| 21:18.44 | Fisker | :( |
| 21:18.48 | Fisker | mine has bad sectors |
| 21:18.52 | Fisker | so can't flash the big kernels |
| 21:18.53 | Fisker | :( |
| 21:18.58 | Antiarc | yeow |
| 21:19.03 | Antiarc | warranty that bad bot |
| 21:19.22 | Fisker | well that would take a lot of work :P |
| 21:19.43 | Arrowmaster | eidolarr: for |
| 21:19.44 | Fisker | + it's unlocked + it's probably not considered covered by warranty since the problem won't exist on stock |
| 21:19.52 | alestane | I thought about saying something, but this gout of ragespew really doesn't invite rational response: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25552505045&sid=1 |
| 21:19.56 | Antiarc | Ah, you mean rooted |
| 21:20.01 | Arrowmaster | eidolarr: dont ask me for the exact syntax |
| 21:20.02 | Antiarc | Yeah, that's why I haven't rooted mine |
| 21:20.02 | malreth | eidolarr: reading from a file or from a variable... and what shell are you using |
| 21:20.03 | Fisker | not entirely |
| 21:20.11 | Fisker | unlocking the bootloader = void warranty |
| 21:20.20 | Fisker | sometimes you can root without doing it :P |
| 21:20.22 | eidolarr | malreth: bash, for reading for any arbitrary block of text |
| 21:20.25 | eidolarr | happens to be a file this time |
| 21:20.30 | nevcairiel | so restore the boot loader to original? |
| 21:20.36 | nevcairiel | i know i can with my android |
| 21:20.44 | Fisker | you can't |
| 21:20.48 | Antiarc | The Nexus One has a hardware bit that gets flipped when you unlock the bootloader |
| 21:20.51 | nevcairiel | alestane: omg wall of text |
| 21:20.52 | Antiarc | I dunno how they do it |
| 21:20.58 | Antiarc | But nobody's figured out how to reset it |
| 21:21.07 | nevcairiel | hah, owned |
| 21:21.12 | DJJeff | was patch 3.3.5 bigger then 100MB for anyone ? |
| 21:21.17 | DJJeff | or just me |
| 21:21.18 | Fisker | yeah as i understand it even if you "relock" it somehow the hardware flag will still be there |
| 21:21.28 | malreth | eidolarr: while read -r line; do echo "$line"; done < "$filename" |
| 21:21.40 | nevcairiel | thats kinda mean :) |
| 21:22.01 | nevcairiel | i want 2.2, or at least the fixes for 2.1 that fix the damn alarm clock already |
| 21:22.14 | Antiarc | What device do you have, nevcairiel? |
| 21:22.16 | eidolarr | malreth: why is there no man page for read =/ |
| 21:22.20 | Fisker | they need to take the moorestown and make a nexus two out of it |
| 21:22.26 | nevcairiel | milestone, euro-droid |
| 21:22.29 | malreth | eidolarr: because it's a built-in |
| 21:22.31 | Antiarc | ah |
| 21:22.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Odlaw (ozzy@c-98-245-3-204.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 21:22.53 | eidolarr | aha so it's in man bash |
| 21:23.03 | Maldivia | DJJeff: 24.886.168 WoW-3.3.3.11723-to-3.3.5.12213-enUS-patch.exe |
| 21:23.12 | Gnarfoz | Fisker: external battery pack fitting in your backpack? :D |
| 21:23.32 | DJJeff | Maldivia: what is 24.886.168 ? |
| 21:23.33 | Fisker | naw? |
| 21:23.40 | malreth | also, use a while-loop instead of a for loop. if the file contents contain a glob character things get goofy with for-loops |
| 21:23.43 | nevcairiel | next year we'll get nvidia tegra based phones, that'll be yummy |
| 21:23.56 | Maldivia | DJJeff: so yeah, about 24MByte |
| 21:24.02 | Ackis | http://www.lamebook.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/sharp21-1.png |
| 21:24.10 | DJJeff | oh |
| 21:24.12 | DJJeff | thank you |
| 21:24.20 | Antiarc | I'll be shocked if there isn't a dual-core Android phone on the market by EOY |
| 21:24.26 | Fisker | x86 > tegra |
| 21:24.41 | nevcairiel | screw x86 |
| 21:24.45 | DJJeff | lamebook.com ? |
| 21:24.51 | nevcairiel | ARM has proven to be superior for that design |
| 21:25.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 21:25.13 | Fisker | i want to play wow on my mobile |
| 21:25.27 | durcyn | DJJeff: lamebook is a cheezburger/failblog/etc blog for stupid shit from facebook |
| 21:25.28 | eidolarr | malreth: did you test that? mine appears to spin and not print anything |
| 21:25.33 | DJJeff | I seriously wanna find..... www.failbook.com |
| 21:25.39 | durcyn | which is ironic since 97% of everything on facebook is stupid shit |
| 21:26.09 | DJJeff | I only used myspace/facebook for chat services.... nothing more |
| 21:26.38 | DJJeff | profiles are bloated with crap |
| 21:26.38 | DJJeff | too much crap |
| 21:26.38 | eidolarr | malreth: i'm not even seeing -r as a flag, what version of bash are you using? |
| 21:26.55 | durcyn | hrm, i stand corrected, failbook is the cheezburger network one |
| 21:27.19 | DJJeff | I mean 4chan is more entertaining then myspace/facebook combined |
| 21:27.48 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvaan (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 21:28.06 | malreth | works here... version 3.2.48 |
| 21:28.09 | DJJeff | and isnt moot like top 40 people in some magazine |
| 21:28.20 | DJJeff | people or life |
| 21:28.22 | DJJeff | or someshit |
| 21:28.37 | Dagmar | Congratulations. |
| 21:28.52 | Dagmar | You just demonstrated that your ability to retain information is less than that of the people on 4chan. |
| 21:29.25 | Kraps | doesn't get it |
| 21:29.34 | DJJeff | dont need too |
| 21:29.37 | Fisker | slaps Kraps around a bit with a large trout |
| 21:29.44 | eidolarr | malreth: hmm not working with 4.1.5 |
| 21:29.54 | DJJeff | it was directed @ me |
| 21:30.31 | malreth | eidolarr: odd that... i'll copy paste exactly what i used |
| 21:30.33 | malreth | while read -r line; do echo "$line"; done < ./dnstest.sh |
| 21:30.34 | Antiarc | http://www.reynoldsftw.com/2010/06/iphone-3g-performance-with-ios-4-0-is-terrible/ |
| 21:30.34 | Antiarc | Heh |
| 21:30.55 | Kraps | are they gonna add another day to the midsummer festival? |
| 21:31.15 | durcyn | Antiarc: it's pretty bad. |
| 21:31.25 | Kraps | since this whole day is wiped |
| 21:31.34 | Antiarc | (this is the point where I point out that my latest OS update increase my phone's effective speed by like 300%) |
| 21:31.37 | Gnarfoz | Antiarc: cisco IOS on the iphone now? we're doooooomed |
| 21:31.40 | durcyn | thank fuck i have an iphone 4 reserved already |
| 21:32.42 | eidolarr | malreth: got it, thanks |
| 21:33.08 | DJJeff | goes back to putting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbRKCc3bmis on repeat |
| 21:33.43 | malreth | eidolarr: cool. glad to help |
| 21:33.59 | Lunessa | Antiarc: *sigh* and I just finished installing iOS4 on my iPhone 3G |
| 21:34.03 | DJJeff | great music to code websites too nom nom nom nom |
| 21:34.18 | malreth | Lunessa: yeah... it was even slower with the 4.0 betas |
| 21:34.32 | Jerub | still on maintenance? |
| 21:34.35 | malreth | my 3G was unusable for a while |
| 21:34.41 | DJJeff | Jerub: yes |
| 21:34.42 | durcyn | Lunessa: are you eligible for an upgrade yet? |
| 21:34.55 | DJJeff | till 3PM |
| 21:34.59 | NightHawkTheSane | Antiarc: worth pointing out that on the 3gs (which hardware wise is comparable to the nexus one i think), ios4 is an all around speed boost |
| 21:35.19 | durcyn | Lunessa: if you can get AT&T/Apple to send you the unlock code for your handset, you can get enough for a non-SIM-locked 3G to more than pay for the cost of a new 4 |
| 21:35.30 | DJJeff | anyone know if/when cataclsm beta is getting passed out? |
| 21:35.35 | DJJeff | if hasnt happen already |
| 21:35.39 | NightHawkTheSane | Wonder how well 2.2 would run on my g1, assuming i could install it... |
| 21:35.41 | malreth | durcyn: that's a good idea |
| 21:35.46 | Antiarc | NightHawkTheSane: Certainly, but people trash on hardware fragmentation in the Android ecosystem. Seems a fair comparison. |
| 21:35.53 | Jerub | i just upgraded my android from 1.5 to cyanogen 2.1, and i like it |
| 21:36.04 | durcyn | malreth: i've seen them going for as much as $500 on ebay, it's nuts |
| 21:36.13 | NightHawkTheSane | Antiarc: oh, absolutely. it's fair to say hardware fragmentation is maybe worse with android, but it's still everywhere. |
| 21:36.15 | Lunessa | durcyn: I bought this one in November of last year, so I doubt I'm eligible for a hardware upgrade on the cheap. |
| 21:36.40 | Antiarc | Hardware fragmentation is worse on Android, but by design, and the platform manages it quite well. |
| 21:36.41 | durcyn | Lunessa: yeah, have to be a year in on the contract. is it a 3G or an S? |
| 21:36.42 | malreth | hrmm... i need to get the glass replaced... i actually managed to scratch my screen |
| 21:36.58 | NightHawkTheSane | Antiarc: yeah, agreed. I think between the two it comes out as a wash. |
| 21:36.58 | Antiarc | Android is supposed to be a general-purpose mobile device OS, not an OS for a single line of devices. |
| 21:36.59 | Lunessa | 3G. I bought a generation behind 'cause I'm cheap |
| 21:37.44 | durcyn | Antiarc: you say that, but letting HTC/Motorola/Verizon/etc fuck up the OS build is negligent imo |
| 21:37.44 | DJJeff | with new raid coming out are people gonna stop doing ICC ? |
| 21:37.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide- (~Cide@hus110a.bobbnet.com) |
| 21:37.50 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
| 21:37.52 | Jerub | Antiarc: there was some whinging by developers about it, "wah wah wah, this complicated feature works differently on different hardware" |
| 21:37.55 | Jerub | but meh |
| 21:37.59 | Jerub | DJJeff: it's a 1 boss raid |
| 21:38.02 | Antiarc | durcyn: What, with their UI layers? Google's making a play to end that in 2.3 anyhow :) |
| 21:38.09 | Jerub | DJJeff: it's like OS vs Naxx |
| 21:38.11 | durcyn | Antiarc: Sense especially is shitty |
| 21:38.24 | Antiarc | Jerub: Yeah, there are some API inconsistencies between 1.x-1.6 |
| 21:38.29 | DJJeff | but I love doing OS.... I want my drake mount |
| 21:38.30 | Antiarc | After 1.6 it gets really stable, though |
| 21:38.50 | Antiarc | So you have to have version-specific codepaths in some instances |
| 21:39.20 | *** join/#wowuidev iSylvir (~iSylvir@173-21-105-177.client.mchsi.com) |
| 21:39.37 | Antiarc | I'm really curious to see how the multitasking on the 3GS works with only 256mb of RAM in the device |
| 21:40.07 | NightHawkTheSane | Antiarc: have you read anything about it? it's not exactly real multitasking, so it probably will perform okay |
| 21:40.20 | Antiarc | Right, but they preserve state in RAM to switch back quickly, no? |
| 21:40.25 | durcyn | no |
| 21:41.50 | durcyn | though i suppose theoretically the background stub could hand off some state data back to the front-end on resume |
| 21:42.30 | NightHawkTheSane | Antiarc: i think, but the preserved state is probably smaller than the app's normal memory footprint |
| 21:43.13 | durcyn | not every background process is necessarily meant for multitasking though, fex Dropbox does uploads in the background if you close it, but that's it yet |
| 21:43.49 | NightHawkTheSane | durcyn: well, part of it is the "fast app switching", where a running app's state is saved, and then restored when you switch back to it |
| 21:44.09 | NightHawkTheSane | kind of like saved states for emulators |
| 21:44.27 | durcyn | NightHawkTheSane: perhaps i'm confusing backgrounding with the multitasking support then |
| 21:44.27 | Jerub | i'm constantly shocked by the limitations that owners have tolerated from their iphones |
| 21:44.39 | NightHawkTheSane | durcyn: easy to do, they're kinda lumped together as "Multitasking" |
| 21:44.56 | Jerub | like, is it really true you couldn't install a third party instant messaging client and leave it connected while reading a book? |
| 21:45.02 | malreth | Jerub: I'm constantly shocked by the poor design that owners have tolerated from their non-iPhones |
| 21:45.04 | NightHawkTheSane | it's kind of two parts, one being the fast app switching, and the other being handing off background tasks to the OS |
| 21:45.06 | durcyn | Jerub: it's always been obvious that it's a consumer device |
| 21:45.21 | durcyn | Jerub: and no, there are a plethora of IM clients that work fine with apple's Push API |
| 21:45.30 | durcyn | Beejive comes to mind |
| 21:45.39 | malreth | the official AIM client |
| 21:46.04 | Jerub | durcyn, malreth: right. good. i was sure that sounded a little too weird. |
| 21:46.10 | Jerub | what about ssh clients? |
| 21:46.12 | DJJeff | blizzard email spam is so bad cant even tell whats legit anymore getting about 7-10 per day now what I dont get is how we even get this spam in the 1st place did someone hack into battle.net's mysql DB or something for peoples emails X_X |
| 21:46.22 | durcyn | Jerub: not as such until 4.0 |
| 21:46.29 | malreth | Jerub: only nerds use SSH on their phones. no one gives a fuck about them. |
| 21:46.41 | malreth | nerd |
| 21:46.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Antiarc-phone (~AndChat@ip70-190-192-186.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 21:46.53 | Jerub | malreth: that's more than a little antagonistic, please don't talk to me like that. |
| 21:46.55 | durcyn | DJJeff: christ, shut up. |
| 21:46.57 | NightHawkTheSane | Jerub: there are ssh clients, to be sure. |
| 21:47.07 | malreth | takes Jerub's lunch money |
| 21:47.08 | Antiarc-phone | Support guys |
| 21:47.08 | DJJeff | sneezes in durcyn's face |
| 21:47.44 | durcyn | Jerub: anyway, persistent connections don't exist for non-push applications, so keeping things like ssh or irc open doesn't happen without the multitasking support |
| 21:47.53 | DJJeff | im almost tempted to setup an irc channel for wow in general for user-user support |
| 21:48.11 | DJJeff | or hunt one down |
| 21:48.11 | Antiarc-phone | I think I'll go take a picture! |
| 21:48.12 | Jerub | DJJeff: #wow on quakenet |
| 21:48.21 | DJJeff | TY Jerub |
| 21:48.32 | Gnarfoz | you'd be it's primary customer AND employee, what a deal |
| 21:48.46 | Gnarfoz | s/'s/s/ |
| 21:49.10 | Antiarc-phone | http://i.imgur.com/LfWgN.jpg |
| 21:49.26 | NightHawkTheSane | durcyn: you could get around that pretty easily with a bnc |
| 21:49.28 | Antiarc-phone | Hey that's pretty neat |
| 21:50.03 | Gnarfoz | Antiarc-phone: what is, taking pictures? ;p |
| 21:50.29 | Antiarc | Gnarfoz: That I can be logged into IRC, then go over to my camera, take a picture, upload it, and paste the link into IRC all without losing my connection |
| 21:50.33 | Antiarc | (becase my phone multitasks :V) |
| 21:50.51 | Jerub | Antiarc: :P |
| 21:51.01 | durcyn | NightHawkTheSane: right, bouncers obviously work for irc, but he asked about ssh |
| 21:51.24 | NightHawkTheSane | Antiarc: technically neat, but for realistic use cases, that feels like such a rare thing to ever need to do :P |
| 21:51.28 | Gnarfoz | well, now that you spell it out antiarc, I'd be rather miffed if that sequence of tasks wouldn't work. I'd expect it to. ;\ |
| 21:51.43 | NightHawkTheSane | durcyn: yeah, although i'm not sure how often a persistent ssh connection is terribly nifty |
| 21:51.44 | Antiarc | NightHawkTheSane: You'd be surprised what you find yourself doing when you're -able- to :P |
| 21:51.47 | NightHawkTheSane | s/nifty/needed/ |
| 21:51.59 | Jerub | oh, and another real question, coworker has 20-30 video files he wants to watch on his phone, what's the best way of dealing with those? |
| 21:52.04 | malreth | Antiarc: that's nice... but my phone has an app that tells me if another chick and I are sexually compatible. irc won't help you get laid. |
| 21:52.08 | Jerub | they're not in mp4/h264 just now |
| 21:52.11 | durcyn | NightHawkTheSane: it'd be nice to be able to task-switch out of iSSH to check an email or something, then pop back without re-authenticating |
| 21:52.16 | NightHawkTheSane | Antiarc: *shrug* I can do it on my g1, but i've never really wanted to. But fair point :) |
| 21:52.25 | durcyn | Jerub: convert with handbrake |
| 21:52.25 | Antiarc | I'll pull up a map, switch on turn-by-turn directions, flip over to my podcast player, start playing a podcast, then jump into my camera app and start recording dash video :P |
| 21:52.32 | Antiarc | And they all work like I'd expect! |
| 21:52.34 | Kraps | why doesnt steam have simcity? |
| 21:52.39 | durcyn | Kraps: EA. |
| 21:52.43 | Gnarfoz | NightHawkTheSane: replace IRC with your IM of choice and/or pasting a link with sending the actual file, and I can suddenly see me doing that quite regularily |
| 21:52.59 | Cloudwolf | did maintenence get extended again? |
| 21:53.02 | Antiarc | I take pictures at the store to ask my wife about stuff relatively regularly |
| 21:53.04 | Jerub | Cloudwolf: yes |
| 21:53.07 | durcyn | Cloudwolf: 3pm PDT |
| 21:53.10 | NightHawkTheSane | Gnarfoz: except that works fine on an iphone :P |
| 21:53.14 | Antiarc | Android's intents system is obscenely powerful |
| 21:53.18 | Cloudwolf | whatsi alredy knew about the 3pm durcyn |
| 21:53.24 | Antiarc | It's delicious how things just sorta work together |
| 21:53.28 | Cloudwolf | did it get pusehd passed 3? |
| 21:53.30 | durcyn | ~wowalert |
| 21:53.31 | purl | http://launcher.worldofwarcraft.com/alert (US); http://status.wow-europe.com/en/alert (EU) [NB: URL goes to 404 unless there's an active alert] |
| 21:53.52 | durcyn | oh. 4 now. ugh. |
| 21:54.00 | Jerub | oh well. |
| 21:54.04 | Cloudwolf | god damnit blizzard |
| 21:54.08 | Cloudwolf | stop breaking eveyrthing you try to fix |
| 21:54.10 | Jerub | off to work now, i was hoping to add some realid friends before i left. |
| 21:54.19 | Gnarfoz | NightHawkTheSane: *shrug* if you have the right IM client, from what I read here |
| 21:54.45 | Gnarfoz | god damnit Cloudwolf, stop expecting to play on patch day |
| 21:54.51 | Gnarfoz | ;p |
| 21:55.03 | Jerub | i have a raid in ... 11 hours |
| 21:55.04 | NightHawkTheSane | Gnarfoz: erm, i think pretty much every iphone im client handles that well enough, i dont think push notifications are new. |
| 21:55.08 | Jerub | i hope it's backup then |
| 21:55.09 | zenzelezz | Cloudwolf: since you're clearly more talented than Blizzard's people, why don't you go teach them? |
| 21:55.12 | Cloudwolf | it must be an act of god delaying them |
| 21:55.23 | Gnarfoz | act of what |
| 21:55.33 | zenzelezz | gold |
| 21:55.40 | Cloudwolf | Gnarfoz let me go fidn the tos sectiona gain |
| 21:55.58 | Gnarfoz | the one that says "we do not guarantee the availablity of the service"? |
| 21:56.10 | Cloudwolf | yes |
| 21:56.14 | durcyn | there must be a severe disconnect between their patch staging environment and production though, given the consistency of these fuckups on patch deployments |
| 21:56.18 | Cloudwolf | well close gnarfoz |
| 21:56.20 | Gnarfoz | why would you want to find that? :p |
| 21:56.28 | Antiarc | You realize how many machines they deploy to on patch day? |
| 21:56.31 | Cloudwolf | "we are not liable for any delays or failures of service due to long list of stuff" |
| 21:56.34 | NightHawkTheSane | durcyn: i suspect it's more a matter of scale |
| 21:56.41 | Jerub | durcyn: i'm guessing the big thing is stuff like the size and complexity of the player database |
| 21:56.41 | NightHawkTheSane | they deploy to a LOT more machines than they stage to |
| 21:56.42 | malreth | Why not just use e-mail to send the photo? As if this is even an issue. |
| 21:57.06 | Gnarfoz | malreth: receiver might not be able to receive email on whatever device he's currently on, for example? |
| 21:57.14 | durcyn | yes, i realize ths scale is different, but staffing issues affecting service availability is a bit crap, no? |
| 21:57.28 | Jerub | durcyn: I doubt it's staffing |
| 21:57.30 | Gnarfoz | what has staffing got to do with it, really? |
| 21:57.50 | malreth | Gnarfoz: the receiver might not be able to receive an IM on whatever device he's currently on. again, this is an issue? |
| 21:57.54 | durcyn | if it's anything else, then it's again a poor excuse |
| 21:58.13 | Antiarc | durcyn: What's the biggest production environment you've managed? |
| 21:58.13 | NightHawkTheSane | meh. shit happens, deal with it. |
| 21:58.19 | Gnarfoz | durcyn: to quote, since you're clearly more talented than Blizzard's people, why don't you go teach them? |
| 21:58.31 | Antiarc | I ask because I administer an 8-machine cluster and a 6-machine cluster, and updating -those- is hairy at times. |
| 21:58.49 | Gnarfoz | a poor excuse for *what*? shit happens daily, stuff takes longer *every time* it shouldn't |
| 21:58.53 | durcyn | Antiarc: ~500 boxes, though there were very few deployments that affected all of them simultaneously, i'll allow |
| 21:59.11 | Jerub | if i had to guess what's going on, they've deployed the patch, they've run consistency checks, fixed a few small niggling things that were in the real world db, connected realid, run a stress test on it, decided to increase the number of machines/interconnects/flux capactiors and are doing that now. |
| 21:59.15 | Antiarc | Well, I'm talking clustered stuff, simultanious rollouts, etc |
| 21:59.22 | NightHawkTheSane | Antiarc: yeah, i used to work for a company that deployed sql updates to a couple dozen SQL Server machines. nights when i had to stay late to help with releases sucked >< |
| 22:00.20 | Gnarfoz | curiously enough, the days when everything goes down just as planned are quite rare |
| 22:00.36 | Gnarfoz | (regardless the amount of planning you did) |
| 22:00.46 | NightHawkTheSane | and no one remembers them anyway :P |
| 22:00.49 | Jerub | heh. the number of machines i rollout releases to i'm not allowed to say anymore. |
| 22:00.52 | Antiarc | My favorite rollotu bug ever was when I did a huge rollout and all the oauth integration was breaking |
| 22:00.59 | Antiarc | Absolute same environment as my staging |
| 22:00.59 | durcyn | Antiarc: I'm not saying it should be easy or that I could do it better. I just have to wonder, 1) why their patching process seems to be hit or miss, and 2) why they aren't phased better across, say, battlegroup clusters |
| 22:01.18 | Antiarc | Except it turns out that the ntp daemon on one of my production boxes had died, and the system clock had drifted to 10 minutes fast |
| 22:01.29 | Antiarc | And oauth remote endpoints were throwing a wobbly over it |
| 22:01.39 | Kraps | dammit is no one selling simcity to download?! |
| 22:01.40 | Jerub | Antiarc: and people wonder why i yell at them for their clock being wrong. |
| 22:01.48 | durcyn | Kraps: tried Impulse or GOG? |
| 22:01.51 | NightHawkTheSane | Antiarc: hah. that sucks. we had an issue similar to that on one of our servers. |
| 22:02.01 | Jerub | Antiarc: we're very close to telling a high profile customer to put it back in the shipping box and send it back to us becasue they're incompetant. |
| 22:02.08 | NightHawkTheSane | it was just abuild machine, so no big deal, though |
| 22:02.20 | Jerub | Antiarc: their latest snafu was, "your clock is drifting between our device and your AD server" |
| 22:02.40 | zenzelezz | coworker told me that a (virtual) mobile operator here (that he worked for before) had trouble with one of their virtual machines because its time drifted very fast... they ended up setting up a cronjob that ran many times an hour syncing with an NTP server |
| 22:02.42 | Jerub | so they made the AD server accept >30 minute deviation in clocks, instead of running ntp |
| 22:03.09 | Jerub | zenzelezz: that's actually not so nuts |
| 22:03.23 | durcyn | Jerub: uh, you do know about this thing called ntpd |
| 22:03.24 | Jerub | zenzelezz: i found ntpd, atl east the one in rhel5, wouldn't resync if the clock was drifting fast. |
| 22:03.25 | Kraps | durcyn: simcity societies all all impulse has |
| 22:03.32 | zenzelezz | it solved their problem; but they couldn't find out what caused the drift |
| 22:03.38 | Jerub | durcyn: read what i said and please don't assume i'm a moron. |
| 22:03.54 | durcyn | Jerub: give me internet snarkiness or give me death. |
| 22:03.56 | Gnarfoz | afair the amount of drift ntpd allows for is configurable |
| 22:03.57 | eidolarr | alternatively: don't be an asshole |
| 22:03.57 | Jerub | zenzelezz: 'vmware' |
| 22:04.24 | malreth | later folks |
| 22:04.29 | Gnarfoz | above that, ntpdate might of course be a band-aid =) |
| 22:04.29 | Jerub | zenzelezz: various kernel minor releases + vmware would drift more than others. usually on the order of minutes an hur |
| 22:04.41 | Kraps | dammit |
| 22:04.55 | Jerub | Kraps: no, you're supposted to say 'crap' not 'dammit' |
| 22:05.02 | foxlit | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25559735749&sid=1 << kind of meh |
| 22:05.33 | Kraps | not in a laughing mood, i might not have net for a week upstate |
| 22:05.38 | Fisker | Shoulder armor does not attach correctly to Blood Elf Male characters. |
| 22:05.39 | zenzelezz | "The proc on Deathbringer's Will causes shapeshifted female tauren druids to change fur colors. " |
| 22:05.39 | Fisker | lololol |
| 22:05.41 | Fisker | lololol |
| 22:05.42 | zenzelezz | such specific bugs amuse me |
| 22:05.52 | NightHawkTheSane | zenzelezz: thats awesome. |
| 22:06.08 | Kraps | i can warez it |
| 22:06.09 | Gnarfoz | it also makes you wonder how that can possibly happen |
| 22:06.11 | foxlit | code must've looked like if (race == tauren && gender == female) botchForm(); |
| 22:06.24 | zenzelezz | "Players have the Shattered Sun Staging Area available as a taxi destination before having gone to the Isle of Quel'danas or reaching the appropriate level. " <-- surely that's not 3.3.5? I've had that for quite a while |
| 22:06.37 | Fisker | i'd figure it has something to do with the wolf bug as well |
| 22:06.39 | NightHawkTheSane | Gnarfoz: well i can understand how it happens for shifted druids in general, but why it happens specifically for female tauren ones is a little confusing |
| 22:07.09 | Fisker | is it the same effect for night elves? |
| 22:07.13 | Antiarc | "Pit of Saron - Scourgelord Tyrannus can remount Rimefang during the encounter. " |
| 22:07.14 | Antiarc | Ahahah |
| 22:07.21 | zenzelezz | again? |
| 22:07.25 | Jerub | foxlit: i'm readin gthat. is that a list of current bugs? or resolved bugs" |
| 22:07.32 | Kraps | zenzelezz: it was never fixed |
| 22:07.33 | zenzelezz | actually all the stuff under General are amusing |
| 22:07.35 | foxlit | known issues == unresolved. |
| 22:07.41 | Jerub | oh right |
| 22:08.02 | NightHawkTheSane | "Casting Levitate while standing on top of a chest after it disappears will cause the player to disconnect." wow |
| 22:08.05 | foxlit | "Gender specific titles are affected by spells that change a character's gender. " << ages. |
| 22:08.27 | foxlit | NightHawkTheSane: that's a good sign. |
| 22:08.35 | DJJeff | omg |
| 22:08.36 | NeoTron | I remember the recurring bugs in BC |
| 22:08.38 | Fisker | yeah it's bad alright |
| 22:08.43 | DJJeff | realms down till 4 now |
| 22:08.49 | foxlit | I imagine the fix will be to make you fall off the chest when it disappears. |
| 22:08.55 | NeoTron | for example pets and invulnerability effects triggering flame wreath on Shade |
| 22:08.59 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: probably, its amusing, though |
| 22:09.03 | Jerub | NightHawkTheSane: what class hs levitate again? |
| 22:09.06 | NeoTron | it was there, t was fixed, it came back, it was fixed, it came back... and was fixed |
| 22:09.07 | NightHawkTheSane | Jerub: priest. |
| 22:09.08 | Jerub | rolls a priest |
| 22:09.11 | durcyn | foxlit: if you don't have levitate on, you just sit in the air as it is now |
| 22:09.18 | durcyn | so that's odd. |
| 22:09.27 | NeoTron | and the drink/eat interruption thing in blade's edge when someone turned in a quest or whatever it was |
| 22:09.31 | foxlit | The airship staircase in HoR was interesting |
| 22:09.39 | Fisker | if they do fix it, i think they'd only have done so to get rid of the annoying "corpse" spam ads |
| 22:09.45 | foxlit | They appear to do *some* validation on reported client positions server-side. |
| 22:09.45 | Thunder_Child | thats not the good one Jerub, cant use it while mounted |
| 22:10.03 | foxlit | It's just that it appears to so far just bite them in their asses. |
| 22:10.27 | DJJeff | taking all bets now that blizzard will finally fix the vehicle UI |
| 22:10.35 | DJJeff | frmo crashingh |
| 22:10.41 | foxlit | vehicle UI is broken? |
| 22:10.48 | Mikk | eh? |
| 22:10.49 | Gnarfoz | DJJeff is broken |
| 22:10.50 | Cloudwolf | Meh they will never fix the vehicle ui |
| 22:10.52 | Pytlask | DJJeff: Uh, I don't think it's crashing. I think that's probably one of your addons :P |
| 22:10.58 | Mikk | i'm with Pytlask |
| 22:11.11 | DJJeff | when you leave vehicle UI it glitches even with addons disabled |
| 22:11.17 | Pytlask | How so? |
| 22:11.22 | DJJeff | and moved into a different directory |
| 22:11.27 | NightHawkTheSane | it's always worked fine for me. *shrug* |
| 22:11.32 | Gnarfoz | (it glitches is not an error description) |
| 22:11.40 | foxlit | Second NHTS's observation. |
| 22:11.40 | Pytlask | I haven't seen any glitches with vehicle UI since like 3.1 |
| 22:11.59 | Jerub | i see the vehicle ui bug in oculus every second time |
| 22:12.02 | foxlit | I'm contemplating writing some action bar code, but the prospect of dealing with vehicles/possessions bugs me. |
| 22:12.05 | Jerub | have to /reload to get my buttons back |
| 22:12.08 | Mikk | i don't think i've seen vehicle ui bugs ever |
| 22:12.11 | Pytlask | How does it 'bug'? |
| 22:12.17 | DJJeff | glitches meaning..... when I press 1 it should cast frostbolt not the vehicle's #1 |
| 22:12.28 | zenzelezz | never seen that problem |
| 22:12.28 | Fisker | Gnarfoz foxlit |
| 22:12.31 | Mikk | but i use blizzard's actionbars |
| 22:13.09 | Jerub | i see the fancy graphics disappear but the buttons remain, and my blizzard buttons don't come back |
| 22:13.19 | DJJeff | ^^^^^^^^^^^^ |
| 22:13.20 | DJJeff | same |
| 22:13.21 | foxlit | I've never seen that issue. |
| 22:13.23 | Pytlask | ohhh, that could be a result of an Action Bar addon. Try resetting keybindings. They may have rebound the keys (which are retained even when the addon is removed) |
| 22:13.27 | foxlit | And I've run Oculus enough times :/ |
| 22:13.39 | zenzelezz | he seemed to say he has the issue without addons enabled |
| 22:13.58 | DJJeff | could be a keybinding issue |
| 22:14.01 | DJJeff | I dunno |
| 22:14.08 | Pytlask | Right. But if an Action Bar addon directly binds the key to the spell (which they can do), that keybinding is preserved even without the addon enabled |
| 22:14.12 | Fisker | lol @ ironforge alpha design |
| 22:14.15 | DJJeff | it happend long before I installed bartender4 |
| 22:14.16 | Lunessa | Using Dominos and honestly Tuller does a better job of the action bar switch for vehicles than the default ui. |
| 22:14.21 | Ackis | Casting Levitate while standing on top of a chest after it disappears will cause the player to disconnect. |
| 22:14.23 | Ackis | lulz |
| 22:14.26 | Gnarfoz | keybindings are not in \Interface\Addons, so you both may be correct |
| 22:14.33 | Fisker | hey Ackis |
| 22:14.39 | Fisker | wanna swap my elite for a slim? |
| 22:14.48 | Ackis | I don't have a slim |
| 22:14.49 | Ackis | :P |
| 22:14.51 | Fisker | get one |
| 22:14.54 | Ackis | I thought you hate the 360 |
| 22:15.11 | Antiarc | Call it pint-sized protection for preteens. A Switzerland-based company is manufacturing extra-small condoms for the 12- to 14-year-old set. |
| 22:15.13 | DJJeff | WTB: eye drops / god I hate my eyes |
| 22:15.13 | Antiarc | Heh. |
| 22:15.21 | Fisker | it's smaller Ackis |
| 22:15.55 | DJJeff | Antiarc: preteen condoms? pictures? |
| 22:15.58 | Lunessa | Antiarc: I don't know if I should laugh, cry, or just give a /small/ chuckle. |
| 22:16.07 | NightHawkTheSane | Antiarc: uh... i guess thats better than them not having them. |
| 22:16.35 | Ackis | Antiarc: you should be happy! Fisker can have safe sex now! |
| 22:16.35 | DJJeff | teens should not have sex....... let along preteens |
| 22:16.35 | Antiarc | NightHawkTheSane: On one hand, my brain is agreeing with you, and on the other, I'm with Lunessa. |
| 22:16.46 | NightHawkTheSane | Antiarc: oh, absolutely. |
| 22:16.50 | *** join/#wowuidev shawnj (~shawnj@cpe-76-171-140-180.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 22:16.59 | DJJeff | there is enough fucked up in the world |
| 22:17.09 | *** part/#wowuidev shawnj (~shawnj@cpe-76-171-140-180.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 22:17.14 | *** join/#wowuidev shawnj (~shawnj@cpe-76-171-140-180.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 22:17.25 | DJJeff | I have seen 8 year olds have sex |
| 22:17.27 | DJJeff | oh wait |
| 22:17.29 | DJJeff | they was me |
| 22:17.32 | DJJeff | getting raped |
| 22:17.32 | Lunessa | Despite my conservative, Baptist up-bringing, I'm all for birth-control and disease protection. |
| 22:18.01 | Lunessa | But... 12-14 year olds having sex makes me uncomfortable. |
| 22:18.21 | DJJeff | Lunessa: in some countries thats legal X_X |
| 22:18.24 | NightHawkTheSane | welcome to a brave new world? |
| 22:18.27 | DJJeff | canada being 1 of them |
| 22:18.35 | Gnarfoz | DJJeff: and in many others, it happens regardless |
| 22:19.10 | Ackis | Lunessa: there was a case in the US where a 12 year old had sex with a 13 year old... they were charged something to do with child pornography or something, and also protected under those same laws, made me go cross-eyed |
| 22:19.41 | DJJeff | who makes up these laws? pedophile poloticiens |
| 22:20.05 | eidolarr | witty |
| 22:20.12 | Lunessa | Ackis: depends entirely on the jurisdiction. And many states have exceptions for when both participants are under-age. |
| 22:20.19 | Antiarc | http://twitpic.com/1z1txx |
| 22:20.19 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: no, not really. |
| 22:20.20 | Antiarc | I |
| 22:20.21 | Antiarc | what |
| 22:20.40 | shawnj | what are the folders that u delete to reset the ui? was it the WTF folder and what else? |
| 22:20.48 | eidolarr | interface |
| 22:20.58 | eidolarr | maybe wdb |
| 22:21.07 | DJJeff | http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/maintenance.htm |
| 22:21.09 | DJJeff | X_X |
| 22:21.16 | Ackis | Lunessa: aye of course, but it was an interesting conundrum in that they were the assaulter and the victim under the law |
| 22:21.35 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 22:21.38 | Gnarfoz | shawnj: move, not delete (in case you want to restore it): wtf & interface |
| 22:21.41 | DJJeff | C:\Program Files\World of Warcraft\Cache\WDB\* |
| 22:21.46 | Lunessa | Ackis: People have trouble thinking rationally about lots of topics, kids being a big one. |
| 22:21.46 | eidolarr | Lunessa: over here you can even have sex with a minor as long as you're within like 18 months of their age |
| 22:22.06 | Lunessa | eidolarr: That's true in many states in the US too. |
| 22:22.15 | eidolarr | thank god |
| 22:22.16 | Gnarfoz | politics ----> |
| 22:22.21 | DJJeff | eidolarr: where is that? |
| 22:22.29 | eidolarr | pa |
| 22:22.35 | DJJeff | penn state? |
| 22:22.43 | eidolarr | ? |
| 22:22.46 | eidolarr | pennsylvania |
| 22:22.47 | DJJeff | ya |
| 22:23.01 | eidolarr | usually when people say penn state they mean the school |
| 22:23.05 | DJJeff | oh |
| 22:23.09 | DJJeff | makes sense |
| 22:23.18 | DJJeff | not asking about the school tho |
| 22:23.19 | Gnarfoz | I even thought that and I'm from another continent entirely |
| 22:23.40 | NightHawkTheSane | Penn State's a reasonably well known school, though. |
| 22:23.40 | shawnj | anyone know whats wrong with wow? when i try to login it wants to suggest a realm but then nothing comes up |
| 22:23.53 | Lunessa | Wikipedia actually has a pretty good article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America |
| 22:23.54 | NightHawkTheSane | the servers aren't up. |
| 22:24.00 | Antiarc | Did you miss the big maintenance message on the left? :P |
| 22:24.02 | DJJeff | shawnj: dont expect to get on |
| 22:24.03 | Gnarfoz | shawnj: maintenance~ |
| 22:24.03 | DJJeff | C:\Program Files\World of Warcraft\Cache\WDB\enUS |
| 22:24.09 | NightHawkTheSane | Antiarc: i'm going to go with yes. :P |
| 22:24.10 | DJJeff | http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/maintenance.htm |
| 22:24.26 | shawnj | yeah but will they fix that part? cause i can login, i just can't choose a realm |
| 22:24.51 | DJJeff | shawnj: i cant even login yet |
| 22:24.51 | eidolarr | do they give free days for long maint anymore? |
| 22:25.07 | NightHawkTheSane | not typically |
| 22:25.08 | DJJeff | eidolarr: how is 1 day ... long |
| 22:25.21 | DJJeff | 1/2 a day actually |
| 22:25.30 | Gnarfoz | Lunessa: from that article: "In Belize, the age of consent is 16 for all heterosexuals. Since 2003, homosexuality has been re-criminalized (regardless of age)" - how modern ^^ |
| 22:25.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (~Lopeppepp@cpe-67-252-44-53.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 22:25.34 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 22:25.37 | NightHawkTheSane | if specific servers are down for over a day, they may give free time to people with characters on those servers |
| 22:25.41 | shawnj | mine says Success! then i they want to suggest a realm. well okay i'll just wait for them to fix it, it was supposed to be done at 11am |
| 22:25.42 | NightHawkTheSane | but thats generally rare |
| 22:25.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Mihau (~alexia@adsl-070-154-141-184.sip.bna.bellsouth.net) |
| 22:25.50 | Lunessa | Gnarfoz: Hey, Belize is not part of the US |
| 22:26.03 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: i remember around release they were very generous with it |
| 22:26.05 | shawnj | .voice shawnj |
| 22:26.07 | Gnarfoz | Lunessa: who claimed anything of the sort? oO |
| 22:26.10 | Lopeppeppy | When maintenance goes wrong, it goes hideously wrong. :) |
| 22:26.11 | shawnj | haha thanks guys |
| 22:26.14 | *** part/#wowuidev shawnj (~shawnj@cpe-76-171-140-180.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 22:26.35 | DJJeff | .chanop shawnj |
| 22:26.35 | Lunessa | Wait until you read some of the rest about the US - then your brain will really hurt. |
| 22:27.08 | eidolarr | it's 16 here, freshmen not off limits |
| 22:27.15 | Kraps | Current Installed Driver 197.45 - Latest Driver Update 257.21 |
| 22:27.18 | Kraps | wtf |
| 22:27.32 | Lopeppeppy | Yeah, I'm not even going to try. Argh. |
| 22:27.52 | DJJeff | does the europe realms go online before the US? |
| 22:28.29 | DJJeff | I just see connecting... I dont even get a success |
| 22:28.36 | Gnarfoz | uhm what? |
| 22:28.38 | Lunessa | eidolarr: I work in a University. Even though the average age of our students is 35 - they're all off limits to me. |
| 22:28.43 | Dagmar | Kraps: it works fine for me, but um... don't have a browser with a lot of flash open at the same time |
| 22:28.44 | Gnarfoz | wow-europe doesn't have maintenance today. |
| 22:28.49 | Dagmar | Flash video accell will eat yer frames |
| 22:28.50 | Fisker | i hate apple Gnarfoz |
| 22:28.58 | Gnarfoz | Fisker: grab a pear, then |
| 22:29.05 | Kraps | Dagmar: eh? |
| 22:29.25 | eidolarr | Lunessa: condolences |
| 22:29.34 | DJJeff | Lunessa: you are off limits to them? or they to you? |
| 22:29.35 | Fisker | i mean the company Gnarfoz |
| 22:29.42 | Lunessa | The law is a beautiful, and strange thing. |
| 22:29.57 | Dagmar | Kraps: Flash can apparently (and has been able to for awhile) hook vdpau for viddy ad playback |
| 22:30.04 | Lopeppeppy | snorgles Lunessa. |
| 22:30.14 | Lunessa | is snorgled. |
| 22:30.19 | Antiarc | Oh dear. |
| 22:30.31 | Dagmar | Kraps: So like, if you update to that and your frames are 1/3 down, don't blame the driver. Kill off the browser with it's happy video detergent commercials in it. |
| 22:30.32 | Antiarc | "I don't know how [the iPhone 4's display] compares with the human retina, but I do know that, just as Apple claims, text on the screen shows no jagged lines, even when expanded to giant size." |
| 22:30.37 | DJJeff | Lunessa: you are off limits to them? or they to you? |
| 22:30.39 | Antiarc | Someone doesn't know about font scaling. |
| 22:30.47 | Gnarfoz | Antiarc: or retinas, or "marketing" |
| 22:31.28 | Lopeppeppy | They are off-limits to Lunessa, that's the direction the law goes, if I'm not mistaken. |
| 22:31.29 | Dagmar | Antiarc: These are the same people who will think Windows Phone 7 is the shiznit because it has a fancy interface that can show them how many emails and how many twitter messages they have pending at the same time |
| 22:31.36 | NightHawkTheSane | Antiarc: yeah, half the information about the display (both for and against) has been pretty uninformed. |
| 22:31.50 | Dagmar | Nevermind that it'll probably reboot, give erratic alarms, and drop calls like no tomorrow |
| 22:31.57 | DJJeff | Lunessa: you are off limits to them? or they to you? |
| 22:32.01 | Antiarc | It's a high DPI display, and that's neat, but the vast majority of it is marketing mumbo-jumbo |
| 22:32.17 | Dagmar | Antiarc: THey'd have been better off calling it an OMGXGA display |
| 22:32.20 | Antiarc | My N1 has...252 PPI, I think, and it looks great. |
| 22:32.28 | Antiarc | I'm sure the 4G will too. |
| 22:32.33 | NightHawkTheSane | Antiarc: well, there actually IS a valid case to be made that it's quite close to the actual resolution of the average human eye. |
| 22:32.34 | eidolarr | Lunessa: once one of my friends was going to get a B in the class, so she told the professor in private that she had a crush on her and had been distracted by it all semester, and got an A |
| 22:32.37 | Antiarc | But "omg I can scale text up and it's not jagged" is hilarious |
| 22:32.43 | NightHawkTheSane | Antiarc: but yes, it's marketing speak :) |
| 22:32.46 | Lunessa | Lopeppeppy: State law prohibts me from engaging in a relationship with a student. |
| 22:32.51 | Fisker | yay yay yay |
| 22:32.52 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: Yeah but the promise they made is factually incorrect |
| 22:33.00 | Antiarc | NightHawkTheSane: Not really, the resolution of the human eye is measured in arc-minutes, not in PPI |
| 22:33.06 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: depending on how you split hairs... |
| 22:33.08 | Dagmar | Lunessa: It's only a 'relationship' if you exchange last names. |
| 22:33.17 | Dagmar | ...or names. |
| 22:33.19 | durcyn | does the law mention one-night stands? DOES IT? |
| 22:33.25 | Dagmar | EXACTLY! |
| 22:33.27 | NightHawkTheSane | Antiarc, Dagmar: it's only inaccurate if against someone with perfect vision. |
| 22:33.38 | DJJeff | Lunessa: what do you teach? |
| 22:33.41 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: Well, that's why I pay $250 for a pair of contact lenses |
| 22:33.42 | Fisker | you will be missed NightHawkTheSane |
| 22:33.43 | Lopeppeppy | Yes, I think the law covers "the spirit" as well as "the letter". If it doesn't, college policy does. :) |
| 22:33.51 | Lunessa | Dagmar: This is why I don't frequent the bar near campus. |
| 22:33.52 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: you still dont get perfect vision out of that ;) |
| 22:33.54 | Antiarc | No, the problem is that saying "The human eye is X PPI" is fundamentally flawed, because the it doesn't factor distance into account |
| 22:33.57 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvaan (~sylvanaar@cpe-098-122-156-080.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 22:34.00 | Antiarc | (which would get you the arc-minute conversion) |
| 22:34.00 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvaan (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 22:34.06 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: exchanging names? that's weird, don't you usually start using one name for both parties? ;p |
| 22:34.20 | Antiarc | I can't resolve pixels on my 42" 1080p TV at normal viewing distance, and it has a PPI of like 87 or something ridiculously low like that |
| 22:34.45 | NightHawkTheSane | Antiarc: well, the claims made by apple do involve a distance of about a foot, i believe. |
| 22:35.11 | NightHawkTheSane | http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/06/10/resolving-the-iphone-resolution/ |
| 22:35.30 | Antiarc | http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedetail/eye-resolution.html |
| 22:35.32 | Gnarfoz | is that a size 8? 5? or what kind of foot? |
| 22:35.45 | Gnarfoz | (go metric! yaaay) |
| 22:36.03 | Fisker | you will be missed NightHawkTheSane |
| 22:36.20 | DJJeff | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25482060013&sid=1 |
| 22:36.35 | Fisker | you will be missed DJJeff |
| 22:36.53 | DJJeff | why Fisker ? |
| 22:36.58 | Fisker | oh |
| 22:37.01 | Fisker | you won't be missed then |
| 22:37.11 | DJJeff | I dont want to be |
| 22:37.12 | Lopeppeppy | Mostly because Fisker isn't a good shot with his BB gun. |
| 22:37.31 | DJJeff | people like Lunessa hate me |
| 22:37.35 | DJJeff | its all good |
| 22:37.46 | Fisker | i don't even have a BB gun |
| 22:37.59 | DJJeff | Fisker if I give you the money to buy one? |
| 22:38.01 | DJJeff | will you |
| 22:38.04 | DJJeff | please |
| 22:38.19 | Gnarfoz | you're begging him to buy a bb gun for himself? |
| 22:38.21 | Gnarfoz | that's weird |
| 22:38.31 | DJJeff | not really |
| 22:38.38 | Gnarfoz | really |
| 22:38.56 | DJJeff | people that are 80 warlocks they dont even know what ritual of summong is |
| 22:38.57 | DJJeff | is wierd |
| 22:39.06 | DJJeff | summoning* |
| 22:39.28 | Gnarfoz | ritual of doom or bust |
| 22:39.37 | Antiarc | NightHawkTheSane: By that same math, I get an equivalent display on my Nexus One by holding the phone 13.6 inches from my face, rather than 12 inches from my face |
| 22:39.53 | Antiarc | In terms of pixels per arc-minute |
| 22:40.10 | NightHawkTheSane | Antiarc: which is probably perfectly fair, again, it's just a high ppi display, and some marketing hype aroudn it. :) |
| 22:40.15 | Thunder_Child | DJJeff: you said that already |
| 22:40.15 | Antiarc | Indeed. |
| 22:40.18 | Antiarc | It's a great-looking display |
| 22:40.25 | Antiarc | It hasn't crossed some magical boundary |
| 22:40.28 | DJJeff | there is far too much evil on planet earth... we need to just nuke the planet and fucking get it over with already |
| 22:40.31 | DJJeff | seriously |
| 22:40.34 | DJJeff | whats the hold up |
| 22:40.36 | eidolarr | Antiarc: i wanted that phone for the vanilla android but went with the incredible |
| 22:40.41 | NightHawkTheSane | certainly not, but they wouldn't generate any hype if they just said that ;) |
| 22:40.53 | DJJeff | and Thunder_Child you actually pay attention to me? |
| 22:40.57 | Dagmar | I'll volunteer to take a more personal approach that won't involve the wildlife. |
| 22:41.02 | Dagmar | DDJeff: What's your address? |
| 22:41.27 | eidolarr | i get it, he's implying physical violence |
| 22:41.30 | eidolarr | this is fresh and exciting |
| 22:41.36 | DJJeff | some mole hill in IRAQ Daqmar |
| 22:41.42 | Dagmar | "implying", wrong word. |
| 22:41.50 | Kraps | Dagmar: "happy video detergent commercials" HOW DID YOU KNOW |
| 22:41.55 | Dagmar | "promising"... better word. |
| 22:41.58 | Gnarfoz | promising? announcing? planning? |
| 22:42.07 | Gnarfoz | hehe |
| 22:42.28 | DJJeff | Dagmar the chinese are already invading USA and CANADA its over all ready |
| 22:42.31 | Dagmar | Kraps: Because they're all over the damn web lately, and I had WoWWiki open yesterday looking at 10fps in Dalaran saying "WTF? Wharzmahframes!" |
| 22:42.32 | Gnarfoz | Shaw cable has connectivity in iraq now? |
| 22:42.40 | Dagmar | Kill browser... back to 35fps. |
| 22:42.43 | DJJeff | there is far too much evil on planet earth... we need to just nuke the planet and fucking get it over with already |
| 22:42.53 | DJJeff | Gnarfoz anyone can /whois |
| 22:42.58 | DJJeff | want a cookie |
| 22:42.59 | Antiarc | Hm, one sec, mathing :P |
| 22:43.25 | Gnarfoz | hm? |
| 22:43.29 | Dagmar | Vancouver. |
| 22:43.42 | Gnarfoz | vancouver what? |
| 22:43.42 | Kraps | Dagmar: and they arent muted like they're supposed to be |
| 22:43.48 | DJJeff | Dagmar anyone can do a whois lookup on an ip address |
| 22:43.56 | DJJeff | im far from scared |
| 22:44.02 | DJJeff | you dont have IRC OPS |
| 22:44.13 | Dagmar | Djjeff: This is because I've never needed +O |
| 22:44.13 | Thunder_Child | DJJeff: i seem to retain everything i read, and i read much |
| 22:44.24 | Thunder_Child | much of what i read |
| 22:44.29 | DJJeff | Thunder_Child: bored much? |
| 22:44.47 | Dagmar | What I'd like to see is you learn the difference between the spacebar and the enter key. |
| 22:45.00 | DJJeff | its a habbit |
| 22:45.05 | DJJeff | I use IM too much |
| 22:45.07 | DJJeff | and less irc |
| 22:45.10 | durcyn | "When you spam me, I'd prefer the lines to be longer." |
| 22:45.19 | Thunder_Child | DJJeff: nope, i can simply look at more than one thing at a time |
| 22:45.19 | Gnarfoz | it's a bad habit there, too, for the same reasons. |
| 22:45.26 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: i'd prefer him learning the difference between coherent thoughts and randomly bashing his face on the keyboard/ |
| 22:45.35 | Gnarfoz | NightHawkTheSane: small steps |
| 22:45.44 | DJJeff | NightHawkTheSane: that would be my cat |
| 22:45.51 | *** join/#wowuidev MoonWitch (~Kelly@d51A4DB5F.access.telenet.be) |
| 22:46.03 | DJJeff | Everyone: why are the realms not up yet thats why im here |
| 22:46.18 | Gnarfoz | they are up now, will you go now? |
| 22:46.40 | NightHawkTheSane | some days i think that draconian totalitarianism isn't SO bad. |
| 22:46.41 | Kraps | holy shit http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/25552505146/everywhere-but-in-north-america/ |
| 22:46.45 | DJJeff | and I support addon authors X_X when many people do not |
| 22:46.58 | Kraps | NEED MORE VIGILANTE KILLINGS |
| 22:46.59 | Gnarfoz | NightHawkTheSane: that's why you're on IRC so much |
| 22:47.00 | NightHawkTheSane | can you support us by being elsewhere? |
| 22:47.33 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (smcn@c-174-52-104-121.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 22:47.33 | MoonWitch | laughed my ass off with chatroulette and -- rick roll |
| 22:47.34 | Cloudwolf | ..... i just read vigilante as vagilante.... any way moving on |
| 22:47.49 | *** join/#wowuidev drexore (~drexore@redeye.xs4all.nl) |
| 22:47.49 | DJJeff | you kids belong on 4chan |
| 22:47.51 | DJJeff | seriously |
| 22:48.04 | DJJeff | with your rick rolls |
| 22:48.05 | Gnarfoz | Kraps: funny how neither of those perceived regions are actually regions of their own |
| 22:48.08 | DJJeff | thats so like 1998 |
| 22:48.38 | MoonWitch | did you expect me to actually use a webcam on there ;) |
| 22:48.41 | Gnarfoz | 1998 sounds like it might be the year of your birth. =\ |
| 22:48.55 | DJJeff | time for a new fad already.... oh wait...... (chinese nuke us already) |
| 22:49.05 | NightHawkTheSane | neat: |
| 22:49.07 | Torhal | What the fuck are you babbling about? |
| 22:49.11 | NightHawkTheSane | http://blog.chromium.org/2010/06/html5-rocks-resource-for-open-web.html |
| 22:49.19 | Kraps | he wants to die |
| 22:49.34 | MoonWitch | yah he does |
| 22:50.07 | DJJeff | http://www.passionup.com/images/eyetest.gif |
| 22:50.32 | Kraps | in the words of Brent Smith: cyanide sweet-toothed suicide |
| 22:50.34 | durcyn | NightHawkTheSane: speaking of, did you see Sencha Touch last week? |
| 22:50.40 | NightHawkTheSane | durcyn: yes, i did. :) |
| 22:50.46 | NightHawkTheSane | durcyn: that looks pretty sweet |
| 22:50.55 | durcyn | it's a good starting point, for sure |
| 22:51.24 | DJJeff | 9 min till 4PM.... <insert countdown> |
| 22:52.01 | DJJeff | im guessing blizz is waiting till 4:20 |
| 22:52.07 | DJJeff | for the smokers |
| 22:52.11 | Cloudwolf | i say they extend it into friday |
| 22:52.19 | MoonWitch | and he hates smokers too |
| 22:52.42 | DJJeff | he??? blizz is male now? |
| 22:52.42 | Gnarfoz | hell, I hope they extend it to sunday, so we can enjoy DJJeff a little longer |
| 22:52.51 | Kraps | ^ |
| 22:53.16 | Kraps | he is a fascinating study |
| 22:53.19 | MoonWitch | I like you, Gnarfoz |
| 22:53.29 | Torhal | MoonWitch: Be wary - he bites |
| 22:53.35 | MoonWitch | I like biting ;) |
| 22:53.48 | DJJeff | lol @ ........ realm status page |
| 22:53.48 | DJJeff | <meta http-equiv="refresh" content="60"> |
| 22:53.58 | MoonWitch | I'm tech sup, hence I must like biting |
| 22:54.05 | Lunessa | MoonWitch: See, offering the camera is ... not playing fair to most nerds. :P |
| 22:54.10 | Torhal | No, you like lying in the fetal position after work. |
| 22:54.15 | MoonWitch | aaah ... we talk about something interesting, Cairenn returns :) |
| 22:54.22 | MoonWitch | Torhal: yeah that too |
| 22:54.37 | DJJeff | MoonWitch: I am far from interesting |
| 22:54.42 | DJJeff | sorry to dissapoint |
| 22:54.52 | Cairenn | lol |
| 22:55.01 | MoonWitch | DJJeff: I wouldn't exactly call you that either, I was agreeing with the statement above that one |
| 22:55.04 | Dagmar | Yeah check out his resume if you want proof of that. |
| 22:55.15 | DJJeff | Dagmar where is it then? |
| 22:55.20 | Dagmar | Online. |
| 22:55.25 | DJJeff | where? |
| 22:55.29 | Dagmar | On the interwebs. |
| 22:55.30 | DJJeff | linkage |
| 22:55.31 | Fisker | tackles Cairenn |
| 22:55.39 | Dagmar | You should really clean that thing up. |
| 22:55.39 | Cairenn | oofs and falls over |
| 22:55.46 | MoonWitch | hugs Cairenn |
| 22:55.47 | DJJeff | in a pm |
| 22:55.52 | Cairenn | hugs MoonWitch |
| 22:55.53 | DJJeff | so I can check it |
| 22:56.06 | Dagmar | I'm sorry... are you paying me a consulting fee I didn't notice? |
| 22:56.26 | NightHawkTheSane | argh, freaking flash needs to die in a freaking fire. |
| 22:56.39 | MoonWitch | NightHawkTheSane: Shall I bring up Silverlight? |
| 22:56.45 | DJJeff | NightHawkTheSane: java needs to die |
| 22:56.48 | NightHawkTheSane | MoonWitch: that's just as bad. |
| 22:57.01 | Fisker | btw Cairenn and MoonWitch |
| 22:57.03 | Fisker | just a FYI |
| 22:57.06 | MoonWitch | Hence me bringing it up :P I hate it |
| 22:57.07 | Fisker | but you're both lying on the floor hugging |
| 22:57.27 | Dagmar | You have your damn full name in your IRC gecos field, with your curiously spelled first name and you expect people to NOT be able to find your home address and resume that you've been posing online through the colo provider. |
| 22:57.29 | NightHawkTheSane | MoonWitch: fair enough :) |
| 22:57.30 | Dagmar | Puh-lease. |
| 22:57.53 | DJJeff | Dagmar: the fact that would even /whois me |
| 22:57.58 | DJJeff | says your a looser |
| 22:58.04 | Cairenn | stop it |
| 22:58.05 | DJJeff | with no friends |
| 22:58.08 | Cairenn | right now |
| 22:58.09 | Aqua | what did they mess up |
| 22:58.15 | Gnarfoz | Aqua: *everything* |
| 22:58.21 | Kraps | Fisker: given their chats, thats not really surprising |
| 22:58.22 | Gnarfoz | (who is "they"?) |
| 22:58.24 | DJJeff | Cairenn in my defense he is trying to hack me |
| 22:58.29 | Aqua | blizzard obviously |
| 22:58.32 | Dagmar | rofl |
| 22:58.34 | Torhal | What that FUCK? |
| 22:58.36 | Torhal | HACK? |
| 22:58.37 | Torhal | ROFLMAO |
| 22:58.37 | Kraps | lol |
| 22:58.51 | Cloudwolf | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25559735888&sid=1 |
| 22:58.53 | MoonWitch | Ok that/s it, I am going to formally request +v |
| 22:58.54 | Cloudwolf | EPIC pwned |
| 22:59.05 | Cairenn | DJJeff: I don't care, take it to PMs, I want it OUT of this channel |
| 22:59.13 | Cairenn | Dagmar: you too |
| 22:59.20 | DJJeff | ok I can agree to that |
| 22:59.36 | Kraps | Cloudwolf: oof |
| 22:59.38 | Dagmar | I'll settle for just slapping an /ignore command out |
| 22:59.54 | Arrowmaster | meh Dagmar knows exactly how to find my home address if he wants to |
| 22:59.55 | DJJeff | Dagmar: enough its over |
| 23:00.05 | NightHawkTheSane | I don't suppose anyone here has familiarity with FlowPlayer? (flash video player..) |
| 23:00.05 | DJJeff | give it a rest now |
| 23:00.16 | MoonWitch | Cloudwolf: epic moment |
| 23:00.18 | Torhal | ... |
| 23:00.41 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: See, but you're a reasonably cultured and intelligent individual who doesn't challenge people to find the easily discoverable |
| 23:00.50 | NightHawkTheSane | (or, a recommendation for a good flash based video player?) |
| 23:00.52 | Cairenn | I keep warning you guys (generic) that I'm sick to death of the bs going on in here lately and that a number of you are really pushing the line of getting a kickban - this is NOT the time to test me |
| 23:01.37 | DJJeff | this kind of drama is in game too and thats why I just want the chinese to nuke the planet already X_X |
| 23:01.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 23:01.52 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: There's an opensource one that MythTV uses in MythWeb. It should work for most purposes. |
| 23:01.53 | smcn | north korea is the one with nukes |
| 23:02.16 | DJJeff | 4PM ( servers up? ) |
| 23:02.28 | smcn | but on a happier subject, omg the new episode of futurama is up on the internets 2 days early |
| 23:02.34 | MoonWitch | NightHawkTheSane: what are you looking for specifically? |
| 23:03.11 | NightHawkTheSane | MoonWitch: a Flash video player that can take a URI to an h.264 encoded mp4 and play it :P i dont know what i'm doing wrong with this one, but i can't get it to work. |
| 23:03.17 | DJJeff | anyone have an update on realm status? |
| 23:03.23 | Torhal | Dude. |
| 23:03.24 | NightHawkTheSane | although, it's possible it may just be flash on linux being terrible. |
| 23:03.29 | DJJeff | page wont load |
| 23:03.34 | Dagmar | Ah... Finally. Flowplayer is what it's called. |
| 23:03.44 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: :P |
| 23:05.19 | Cloudwolf | I never realized that wow had a built in virus detector O.o |
| 23:05.36 | Gnarfoz | well, it does! |
| 23:05.41 | Cloudwolf | neat |
| 23:05.42 | Corrodias | it does; you'd better click this banner that says you're infected NOW! |
| 23:05.51 | Arrowmaster | NightHawkTheSane: and flash on linux is only getting worse |
| 23:05.53 | Dagmar | I know that flowplayer can deal with both a regular "get" playback from a stupid webserver as well as psuedo-streaming with ranged get requests |
| 23:06.02 | MoonWitch | and then you're the 10,000th visitor and have to click to claim your prize |
| 23:06.46 | A-KO | holy shit |
| 23:06.47 | Kraps | MoonWitch: i like being the 999,999th visitor |
| 23:06.49 | DJJeff | MoonWitch: how do I claim my prize without giving out my personal info to later be indent theft |
| 23:06.51 | Dagmar | I'm not sure how happy I'll be if I see that Myth 0.23 still doesn't have the patch in it to make that work properly after I fixed as much as was fixable |
| 23:06.53 | A-KO | it's going to be 37C (99F) here on Thursday |
| 23:07.38 | DJJeff | A-KO: where is here? |
| 23:07.44 | DJJeff | sounds like california |
| 23:07.46 | DJJeff | X_X |
| 23:07.52 | MoonWitch | You won't be asked for personal info, you only have to click ... and then find your desktop again |
| 23:08.20 | DJJeff | I miss the 115F in some parts of california |
| 23:08.25 | Lunessa | And you will get to meet hot girls near you who want sex now! |
| 23:08.35 | MoonWitch | yes! |
| 23:08.36 | Kraps | the x axis is the horizontal one? |
| 23:09.07 | DJJeff | just the girls that want to have sex with you are the ones not shown on that ad |
| 23:09.19 | Kraps | y/n |
| 23:09.34 | Kraps | indifferent |
| 23:09.38 | Torhal | Arrowmaster: Yeah, I blindly updated and now I can't view anything that requires Flash since my browsers are 64-bit |
| 23:09.38 | NightHawkTheSane | Kraps: yes. |
| 23:09.48 | MoonWitch | x = horizontal |
| 23:10.07 | NightHawkTheSane | Arrowmaster: yeah, i know. makes doing this web development a pain. i need to install windows on a vm or something. |
| 23:10.13 | Dagmar | Torhal: You should be able to prod that graphical interface to dpkg/apt and make it pull the previous version of Flash back in |
| 23:10.20 | Thunder_Child | z is also horizontal |
| 23:10.20 | Arrowmaster | im wondering if the old nspluginwrapper thingy is going to come back |
| 23:10.48 | NightHawkTheSane | Thunder_Child: your mom is horizontal. |
| 23:11.04 | MoonWitch | Thunder_Child: we're discussing 2d :) |
| 23:11.06 | DJJeff | oh wow blizzard actually sells gold and here is proof.... they are the hackers themselves |
| 23:11.06 | DJJeff | http://a.ads2.msads.net/CIS/105/000/000/000/006/327.jpg |
| 23:11.09 | Torhal | Dagmar: Eh, I have to do different stuff for Gentoo. I'm not really pressed about it. I can listen to MP3s instead of using Pandora/Grooveshark |
| 23:11.29 | Thunder_Child | NightHawkTheSane: more than you know |
| 23:11.55 | NightHawkTheSane | Thunder_Child: well i can't be at her place /every/ night. |
| 23:12.05 | MoonWitch | .. nice stinger there |
| 23:12.12 | DJJeff | realms are down for 1 more hour |
| 23:12.15 | Thunder_Child | you wouldnt want to be |
| 23:12.20 | DJJeff | what the fuck blizzard |
| 23:12.32 | NightHawkTheSane | obviously, i mean there are OTHER people's moms. |
| 23:12.35 | Thunder_Child | DJJeff: L2playothergames |
| 23:12.46 | DJJeff | Thunder_Child: such as? |
| 23:12.55 | MoonWitch | Hello Kitty Island? |
| 23:13.02 | DJJeff | league of legends got boring fast |
| 23:13.03 | Cloudwolf | lol |
| 23:13.13 | Thunder_Child | then you are doing it wrong |
| 23:13.17 | Corrodias | i could dump a list of about 150 playworthy games on you if you want |
| 23:13.26 | Corrodias | these being the ones i have and haven't gotten to yet |
| 23:13.29 | DJJeff | you play LoL ? |
| 23:13.32 | Torhal | Coming into IRC and bitching about it on multiple lines doesn't seem to me as a constructive activity. |
| 23:13.37 | Thunder_Child | yes |
| 23:13.49 | DJJeff | and your random gibberish about linux is? |
| 23:13.53 | Thunder_Child | really Corrodias, 150? |
| 23:14.06 | NightHawkTheSane | yes, it generally is. |
| 23:14.15 | Dagmar | MoonWitch: I was disappointed in that one, actually |
| 23:14.18 | Torhal | Well, I was having an actual conversation using complete sentences. |
| 23:14.22 | durcyn | whuck. being forced to support IE7 for this site is horrible. would you believe microsoft somehow found a way to take ul li { position:relative; display:inline;} and have it set child anchor width to 1px |
| 23:14.26 | Corrodias | i may be overestimating, considering how many i -have- gotten through. it's probably closer to 60. lemme see... |
| 23:14.38 | Torhal | Anywho - just an observation. |
| 23:15.04 | MoonWitch | durcyn, try this : CMS system REQUIRES IE6 (doesn't work in higher versions) |
| 23:15.16 | durcyn | MoonWitch: murder spree time. |
| 23:15.19 | DJJeff | when the topic is real anyone can hold a convo X_X |
| 23:15.36 | MoonWitch | durcyn: Yeah, but I'd get fired for attempted murder. |
| 23:15.37 | Corrodias | it's roughly... 90 games, closer to 75 or 80 if you don't count these here that i'm unlikely to bother with |
| 23:15.42 | NightHawkTheSane | durcyn: have you seen this? http://code.google.com/p/ie7-js/ |
| 23:15.44 | Thunder_Child | MoonWitch: it gets better, the accnting dept. uses macs..... |
| 23:15.54 | MoonWitch | sits next to Cairenn :) |
| 23:16.00 | eidolarr | does anyone here write java code with emacs? |
| 23:16.00 | durcyn | NightHawkTheSane: Shiny |
| 23:16.03 | Lunessa | home time for me. Ciao tutti. |
| 23:16.07 | MoonWitch | Thunder_Child: that's not even remotely funny :(* |
| 23:16.28 | MoonWitch | Kraps may need some superglue |
| 23:16.45 | Thunder_Child | MoonWitch: was to me, but then i seem to be a masochist |
| 23:17.02 | MoonWitch | Thunder_Child: working for Panda, I may be as well. |
| 23:17.04 | A-KO | Ship date Jun 22, 2010 |
| 23:17.04 | A-KO | Estimated delivery Jun 23, 2010 by 3:00 PM |
| 23:17.07 | A-KO | ^^ woot! |
| 23:17.16 | MoonWitch | A-KO: whatcha get? |
| 23:17.28 | durcyn | an iphone, i'd guess. |
| 23:17.36 | Thunder_Child | same guess here |
| 23:17.42 | eidolarr | that's kind of mean of you guys to assume |
| 23:17.47 | A-KO | lol |
| 23:17.50 | A-KO | they assumed correctly |
| 23:17.51 | MoonWitch | I would have guessed an ashtray or something |
| 23:17.55 | durcyn | the man had a nerdgasm in a public channel, there are only so many things it can be |
| 23:17.57 | MoonWitch | A-KO: I hate you! |
| 23:18.02 | A-KO | haha |
| 23:18.05 | Cloudwolf | ahh 5pm blizzard just give us a 2 hour estimation instead of constnat 1hours lol |
| 23:18.17 | Thunder_Child | have you not read this channel eidolarr? we are mean people. especially Cairenn |
| 23:18.18 | NightHawkTheSane | A-KO: neat :) |
| 23:18.19 | Dagmar | Chronic virginity? |
| 23:18.31 | Thunder_Child | Cloudwolf: no, it's one |
| 23:18.35 | Thunder_Child | it was 4pm before |
| 23:18.36 | A-KO | notes tomorrow is a day I *will* be coming home early |
| 23:18.37 | NightHawkTheSane | i'm about 90% sure i'm going to get an iphone4, but it'll have to wait until after i move. |
| 23:18.41 | MoonWitch | I'm not mean, I'm just ... weird |
| 23:19.07 | Cloudwolf | Thunder_child i meant i wish they would over estimate than under estimate the time |
| 23:19.26 | A-KO | NightHawkTheSane: I did so much cost/benefit analysis on phones and plans |
| 23:19.39 | Thunder_Child | Cloudwolf: eh, it will be done when it gets done |
| 23:19.45 | MoonWitch | A-KO: I gave that up :P the plans change too fast here. |
| 23:19.57 | MoonWitch | anyhow, back to pr0n |
| 23:20.05 | A-KO | MoonWitch: I've changed my plan a few times, I usually update it every couple of months and review everything--I've saved money every time usually |
| 23:20.06 | NightHawkTheSane | A-KO: eh, that was kind of the easy part |
| 23:20.12 | Cairenn | MoonWitch: share, I need some new stuff |
| 23:20.28 | A-KO | NightHawkTheSane: lol, I was very close to switching and getting an Evo |
| 23:20.40 | MoonWitch | ok links coming right up |
| 23:21.26 | NightHawkTheSane | i'm not really convinced the evo is that worth it. |
| 23:21.29 | NightHawkTheSane | it's pretty, but meh. |
| 23:21.56 | NightHawkTheSane | i'm not fond of the sense ui, or sprint, really. |
| 23:22.01 | A-KO | NightHawkTheSane: yeah, it's not--I used it for about a week through work....it's not....it just doesn't have the finesse that the iphone has...I mean, ultimately that's what sells me on it..it might be able to do a ton of things |
| 23:22.05 | A-KO | but the iphone does shit so much better |
| 23:22.14 | NightHawkTheSane | *nod* |
| 23:22.24 | A-KO | You spend more time moving around, navigating, dialing, swiping, and just moving through the device than you do actually focusing in on a single app |
| 23:22.27 | A-KO | that how it does those things |
| 23:22.30 | A-KO | is the MOST important part |
| 23:22.31 | durcyn | the evo is a battery disaster |
| 23:22.44 | A-KO | durcyn: after 2 years my iphone's a battery disaster :P |
| 23:23.17 | durcyn | A-KO: yeah, i'm upgrading as well, this 3g has seen better days |
| 23:23.18 | A-KO | man I can't wait t osee my bill for next month |
| 23:23.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 23:23.20 | A-KO | gonna be kick ass cheap |
| 23:23.29 | durcyn | you drop down to the 200mb plan? |
| 23:23.32 | A-KO | yeah durcyn, that's what I've got...the 3g....was a great purchase, but definitely time for an upgrade |
| 23:23.34 | A-KO | hell no |
| 23:23.36 | A-KO | I kept my unlimited plan |
| 23:23.42 | A-KO | they let you grandfather in |
| 23:23.51 | A-KO | so that's what I did |
| 23:23.57 | durcyn | not sure what you mean by cheap then, still a $45 voice plan and $30 data plan |
| 23:24.06 | Kraps | ~wowalert |
| 23:24.07 | purl | http://launcher.worldofwarcraft.com/alert (US); http://status.wow-europe.com/en/alert (EU) [NB: URL goes to 404 unless there's an active alert] |
| 23:24.13 | MoonWitch | known issues : Casting Levitate while standing on top of a chest after it disappears will cause the player to disconnect. |
| 23:24.22 | MoonWitch | Oh I am going to have a ball post patch |
| 23:24.37 | A-KO | oh durcyn, I made a bunch of changes to my phone plan last month--some involving the AT&T A-List feature, which is the largest money saver..but also cut out 7PM nights/weekends as well |
| 23:24.42 | A-KO | and boosted my texting plan |
| 23:24.54 | A-KO | so boosting the texting plan another $10, dropping the 7PM N/W, lowering the plan, and using A-List |
| 23:24.58 | A-KO | = monumental savings |
| 23:25.20 | Kraps | http://g4tv.com/videos/46399/The-MMO-Report-Cataclysm-Preview-Special/ |
| 23:25.22 | A-KO | I found out I was averaging around 200-300 texts/month |
| 23:25.26 | durcyn | I'll have to look into that, I'm still using an old Cingular 300 minute plan, resulting in something like 5,000 rollover minutes |
| 23:25.47 | A-KO | I'm on a family share plan (my mother's on my plan) otherwise my shit would be half this cost |
| 23:25.49 | A-KO | but alas |
| 23:26.32 | A-KO | with the a-list I'm down to about 800 minutes used/month between the two of us--without the a-list that's about 1900 |
| 23:26.35 | NightHawkTheSane | A-KO: is she paying half the cost, though? :P |
| 23:26.36 | A-KO | so that was a pretty big chunk |
| 23:26.40 | durcyn | might be worth getting a WiMax bridge if I can knock the AT&T bill down |
| 23:26.51 | A-KO | nah NightHawkTheSane, I live at home, it's part of my rent :P |
| 23:26.57 | NightHawkTheSane | ah, well i guess that's fair |
| 23:27.06 | A-KO | cell phone, cable bill.....more rent on top of that....lol |
| 23:27.12 | A-KO | but the nice thing about the bills, I get flexibility |
| 23:27.41 | A-KO | so a $60-$70 drop in my bill doesn't mean I have to pay $60-$70 more for rent ;) |
| 23:27.53 | A-KO | as long as she has her phone and the cable's on and other stuff is going well, it doesn't matter |
| 23:27.54 | A-KO | lol |
| 23:30.14 | Corrodias | a $60 drop will be nice. i'm ditching my cable TV service next month since i never watch it. |
| 23:30.52 | A-KO | I want to ditch the cable TV but my parents don't watch sitcoms that I can grab off the net for them |
| 23:31.01 | A-KO | so I can't just replace it with a wdtv or anything |
| 23:31.33 | A-KO | it's all shit like HGTV, Food Network |
| 23:33.27 | Corrodias | i miss it about 20 seconds every day |
| 23:34.43 | Gnarfoz | install ntpd |
| 23:36.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (~Lunessa@WoWUIDev/Lunessa) |
| 23:38.44 | Sixen | So are the servers up yet |
| 23:38.56 | Lopeppeppy | Nope. |
| 23:39.00 | Dagmar | If people are here asking about them, then they're not up. |
| 23:39.01 | Lopeppeppy | Not far now, my little Smurfs. |
| 23:39.03 | Dagmar | :) |
| 23:39.07 | Sixen | .. Seriously? Like 24 hour maintenance. |
| 23:39.13 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvaan (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 23:39.17 | Lopeppeppy | They keep extending it. |
| 23:39.22 | Dagmar | Hey man, RealID is fo'really real, man |
| 23:39.36 | Corrodias | hay guyz i have an idea |
| 23:39.39 | Cloudwolf | noon 2 3 4 5 estimation 9pm servers go up for 10 minutes then go down for a day |
| 23:40.02 | Corrodias | let's not play games like gamers and instead complain about how WoW is offline on irc |
| 23:40.27 | Gnarfoz | Sixen: quite some hours left before that adds up to 24... also, I'd like you to meet DJJeff |
| 23:40.39 | Dagmar | I'm fine simply being secure in the knowledge that there's not terrorists over there frantically deleting all our toons and tossing DAT tapes into a degausser tray. |
| 23:40.45 | Sixen | Hai DJJeff. |
| 23:40.49 | Cloudwolf | corrodias waht other games WOW ISN"T A GAME ITS LIFE 111111!!!!#1!321#!!!!1111 |
| 23:40.56 | Corrodias | :V |
| 23:41.02 | Sixen | Gnarfoz, is he a real DJ? eye want muzik |
| 23:41.04 | Thrae | Hold on people. Cairenn is undergoing extensive maintenance by Shirik_. |
| 23:41.19 | Dagmar | o.O |
| 23:41.22 | Cloudwolf | .... |
| 23:41.26 | Cloudwolf | pics or it didn't happen |
| 23:41.28 | Corrodias | does he need help? my screwdriver isn't a flathead. |
| 23:41.30 | Dagmar | no pics. |
| 23:41.34 | Gnarfoz | Thrae: if you combine *that* with <MoonWitch> anyhow, back to pr0n <@Cairenn> MoonWitch: share, I need some new stuff - things get weird |
| 23:41.34 | Dagmar | Please god, no pics. |
| 23:42.35 | Dagmar | There's always zivity.com if you want some pics tho |
| 23:42.41 | Dagmar | I'm sure at least one of those girls plays WoW |
| 23:43.41 | *** join/#wowuidev MoonWitch (~Kelly@d51A4DB5F.access.telenet.be) |
| 23:43.41 | Thrae | Anyway, I like in 3.3.5 Blizzard introduces a bunch of questionable stuff to our privacy as paying customers. Facebook privacy issues, OK, Facebook is a free service. But suddenly Blizzard is doing bad enough with WoW subscriptions they need to invade our privacy? |
| 23:43.51 | Lunessa | Dagmar I'm afraid to look at that url. |
| 23:43.53 | Dagmar | Thrae: dude... troll much? |
| 23:44.23 | Gnarfoz | that hopefully is a forum quote |
| 23:44.30 | Thrae | Dagmar: That's rather extreme...uh, calling me an extremist. |
| 23:44.38 | Dagmar | Lunessa: Well, it *is* an "erotica" site, and it's pretty normal and stuff. I just know the girl that built it and so I occasionally go over there from time to time to throw dollars at goth boobies. |
| 23:44.46 | A-KO | Thrae: What exactly are they betraying? |
| 23:45.03 | Gnarfoz | nothing |
| 23:45.04 | Lunessa | Oh. It's got goth boobies! You should have said so! |
| 23:45.07 | Dagmar | Lunessa: Like, if my gf "finds out" there really isn't much to "find out" |
| 23:45.07 | Dagmar | Heh |
| 23:45.15 | Dagmar | I was a beta tester |
| 23:45.15 | Thrae | A-KO: Customer<->Business relationship with a new Subscriber Agreement. |
| 23:45.20 | Kraps | goth ftl |
| 23:45.26 | Gnarfoz | Thrae: diff |
| 23:45.30 | Aqua | i didn't wow had facebook access? |
| 23:45.48 | Aqua | i only thought that was starcraft2 functionality |
| 23:45.48 | A-KO | honestly |
| 23:45.51 | Thrae | Lunessa: What the hell are "Goth Boobies"? Do they droop and mope? Or are those "Emo Boobies"? |
| 23:45.54 | Gnarfoz | we've been over this T_T |
| 23:45.54 | Kraps | Aqua: i accidentally... |
| 23:45.55 | MoonWitch | Dagmar: link? |
| 23:46.05 | Dagmar | Moonwitch: Link for what? |
| 23:46.05 | A-KO | I think people need to really let go of what they consider "private" information in this day and age |
| 23:46.13 | A-KO | the boogey man isn't out to get you |
| 23:46.14 | MoonWitch | that site |
| 23:46.16 | Dagmar | I'd like to hear what, specifically the "privacy" issues are |
| 23:46.17 | Gnarfoz | A-KO: not the point, at all |
| 23:46.24 | Dagmar | Moonwitch: What? Zivity? Zivity.com |
| 23:46.26 | Aqua | you look at my mfacebook, there isn't much there, its a picture, a name and a birthday |
| 23:46.30 | NightHawkTheSane | A-KO: just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you |
| 23:46.30 | MoonWitch | yes he is out to get you |
| 23:46.32 | A-KO | Gnarfoz: I have yet to see anything in WoW that would violate privacy..... |
| 23:46.34 | MoonWitch | just get him back |
| 23:46.38 | A-KO | NightHawkTheSane: lol |
| 23:46.48 | A-KO | and believe me when I say |
| 23:46.52 | A-KO | I'm a pretty "secure" person for the most part |
| 23:47.02 | A-KO | considering I build a 256-bit AES encrypted VPN tunnel on every open wifi point I go to |
| 23:47.03 | Gnarfoz | A-KO: you realize you're being trolled? by a tinfoil wearing troll no less? =X |
| 23:47.05 | Dagmar | Blizz's RealID isn't a big privacy issue that I can see. Facebook on the other hand... I wouldn't link my Battle.net stuff to my Facebook account. No way, no how |
| 23:47.13 | NightHawkTheSane | it usually requires ropes to make me secure... er... |
| 23:47.13 | A-KO | Dagmar: I do |
| 23:47.17 | A-KO | lol NightHawkTheSane |
| 23:47.27 | A-KO | Dagmar: I've got my xbox live stuff linked and my wow stuff linked |
| 23:47.31 | A-KO | doesn't really bother me |
| 23:47.39 | Thrae | Dagmar: The changes that add Facebook and Massive features. Now Facebook there's outlined an opt-out, but the Massive thing is vague. Real ID, on the other hand, is a whole other discussion. |
| 23:47.44 | Aqua | all the facebook stuff does is parse your friends list and look for email addresss |
| 23:47.48 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: not that there's much to link, the feature set of the facebook "integration" is rather sparse, with just 1 function total |
| 23:47.53 | Dagmar | A-ko: I'm mainly interested in avoiding possible future spearfishing attacks |
| 23:48.05 | Cloudwolf | I just wish that hte realid service had an option to hide last names or abreviate last names with innitials or something epspecialy the friends of freinds seeing info... |
| 23:48.15 | Gnarfoz | Cloudwolf: don't use, problem solved |
| 23:48.18 | Dagmar | Gnarfoz: yeah but the problem is that facebook has a bit of "creep" in it, and I don't mean like the old guy that hangs out next to the playground |
| 23:48.22 | Thrae | Cloudwolf: As does tons of other people. |
| 23:48.25 | A-KO | Dagmar: I consider such attacks to be user error |
| 23:48.28 | A-KO | and only that |
| 23:48.35 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: you talked to that guy recently? :D |
| 23:48.42 | Dagmar | Gnarfox: Which guy? |
| 23:48.45 | A-KO | when I'm building network security and systems security, user error is the biggest problem |
| 23:48.52 | Cloudwolf | Gnarfoz i know its optional but i like the concept of knwoing friends alts with 1 friend addition along with cross server chat i wish it didn't have to be realid to do that |
| 23:48.58 | DJJeff | pokes Sixen |
| 23:49.00 | A-KO | and I roll in phishing attacks to user error--not to say we don't use postini...... |
| 23:49.05 | A-KO | but if a user clicks on shit it's user error |
| 23:49.06 | Lunessa | In any security system, people are the problem. |
| 23:49.19 | Cloudwolf | if hter wer no people there would beno need for a security system |
| 23:49.25 | Sixen | Hai DJJ |
| 23:49.33 | Dagmar | I don't care for that there's almost no way to really keep your details under wraps on Facebook. |
| 23:50.01 | A-KO | Dagmar: Unfortunately that's part of signing up for it--nothing is ever free ;) I knew that going into it |
| 23:50.10 | Gnarfoz | that's cool and all, but doesn't related to realid, not yet at least |
| 23:50.21 | Gnarfoz | (to acccomodate for that "creep". ;p) |
| 23:50.21 | Dagmar | I might have clicked all the details in their new privacy settings to "hell no" but just the same, if one of my FB friends (who actually all *are* my real friends) goes near a banner add that's partnered with FB, they get a lot of data bout me just because I'm their friend |
| 23:50.31 | Thrae | The problem with Real ID are "Viral Friends", those that have greatly different ideas of privacy than you. So if you want to ever use the service, even with your own family, you have to just hope they don't choose to friend a "viral friend" who has 100s of other Real ID friends. |
| 23:50.34 | A-KO | yeah Dagmar, that's how they make money. |
| 23:50.44 | Dagmar | So... Blizz's model orks for me, but FB is really stretching what I'd consider to be polite |
| 23:50.50 | Dagmar | er works |
| 23:51.04 | A-KO | I don't know, I've traveled across the country and into other countries to meet random people I've only met online before :P |
| 23:51.05 | A-KO | so |
| 23:51.14 | Lunessa | Me too. |
| 23:51.26 | A-KO | so the whole idea of a few marketers having my info, that's fine |
| 23:51.29 | Torhal | I met my GF on the Internet. Our son is 10. |
| 23:51.32 | A-KO | it's not like I typed my SSN and CC info into FB |
| 23:51.51 | Lunessa | I met someone on the internet before metting people on the internet was a thing. |
| 23:51.58 | A-KO | same Lunessa... |
| 23:52.00 | A-KO | :P |
| 23:52.07 | Dagmar | A-ko: yeah but Facebook has a LOT of marketers... and now there's going to be a way to know what their odds are of snatching some WoW credentials as you browse Facebook. |
| 23:52.08 | Dagmar | Joy. |
| 23:52.25 | Thrae | A-KO: But would you be comfortable giving those people, and the friends of those people, access to your real name and all the information that goes with it? |
| 23:52.31 | A-KO | Dagmar: Well--they aren't going to get my wow creds, because I use an authenticator |
| 23:52.32 | Dagmar | On almost every page there's at least three |
| 23:52.34 | A-KO | so unless they trojan my system |
| 23:52.36 | A-KO | good luck |
| 23:52.38 | Dagmar | A-Ko: Same here |
| 23:53.03 | Cloudwolf | problem solved. Firefox+ABP+NoScript = yay |
| 23:53.11 | Dagmar | ...but we've already seen one trojan that would immediately relay your token to a goldfarming outfit for near-instant account stripping |
| 23:53.13 | A-KO | Thrae: yeah sure, I have no real problems with it whatsoever, I don't really do anything (which is a problem in and of itself), but nothing that I would consider I didn't want people to know about |
| 23:53.17 | Gnarfoz | <Dagmar> A-ko: yeah but Facebook has a LOT of marketers... and now there's going to be a way to know what their odds are of snatching some WoW credentials as you browse Facebook. <-- no |
| 23:53.52 | Thrae | A-KO: I'm surprised. You're a rarity. Most people have secrets. |
| 23:54.03 | A-KO | Dagmar: up-to-date security software, UAC kicked up, using up-to-date browsers, with regular updates--stops 99% of the stuff out there. Unless it's targetted, but the chances of you being targetted in any sort of attack, you've got other issues unrelated to net stuff :P |
| 23:54.06 | Dagmar | Gnarfoz: So you're telling me that FB isn't going to report app integration with Battle.net just like they to ZYnga and all the other games that hook into Facebook unless you've explicitly told them otherwise |
| 23:54.13 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: do you know what the battle.net/facebook integration actually encompasses? |
| 23:54.28 | A-KO | Dagmar: but the reality is, why does it matter? |
| 23:54.33 | Gnarfoz | like, have you read the 1 item long list of features? |
| 23:54.39 | Dagmar | It doesn't need to encompass anything beyond there being a flag that says "The user who just viewed your banner ad plays WoW" |
| 23:54.50 | Gnarfoz | facebook doesn't know that. |
| 23:55.13 | Gnarfoz | "easily add people from facebook as your realid friends" is the only feature there is so far |
| 23:55.30 | Dagmar | Oh, I was told there'd be integration |
| 23:55.31 | Dagmar | Tjay' |
| 23:55.32 | Dagmar | Tjhat |
| 23:55.33 | Gnarfoz | I don't get where you think facebook will know from that you play WoW |
| 23:55.37 | Dagmar | @#$@$ ZThat's not even integration |
| 23:55.38 | A-KO | Thrae: I think most peoples' secrets are probably things that hsouldn't be secrets at all--like that time that you know, you went and puked all in a friend's toilet and you're hanging your head in the bowl....you and 2,000,000 other people |
| 23:55.41 | A-KO | it's not that big of a deal |
| 23:55.56 | A-KO | those things are what I call "normal" |
| 23:56.13 | Thrae | Let's say, for example, I was a staunch aetheist, but I hate to argue about it. Someone in my family real ID friends who has a friend who has a friend who has a friend who has a friend (so on to the 20th degree) someone who's a staunch spiritualist, and loves to argue. I block them, but they cyber-stalk and taunt me mercilessly using the information they've gained. (reverse Aethist vs Spiritualist if you want) |
| 23:56.17 | Dagmar | Gnarfoz: Because I was expecting they'd start rolling data like from the Armory RSS feed into people's Facebook wall with the flip of a switch |
| 23:56.29 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: expectations run wild, some times |
| 23:56.46 | A-KO | Thrae: Facebook's links only extend, at best, to "friends of friends"--aside from business marketers that Facebook does business with, but as far as regular people--who cares. |
| 23:56.56 | Thrae | A-KO: I'm talking about Real ID. |
| 23:57.04 | A-KO | what's wrong with realid? |
| 23:57.08 | Cloudwolf | it stops at friends of friends |
| 23:57.09 | Dagmar | A-Ko: Nothing |
| 23:57.10 | Gnarfoz | reading the announcements and blue posts, I can find no mention of any kind of "deeper" integration |
| 23:57.11 | *** join/#wowuidev WobWork1 (~Wobwork@234.128.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 23:57.17 | A-KO | yeah Gnarfoz, neither can I |
| 23:57.19 | Thrae | A-KO: The scenario which I just formed... |
| 23:57.24 | A-KO | Thrae: not really |
| 23:57.29 | Dagmar | Gnarfoz: I just sort of assumed the "average" level of information feed going on |
| 23:57.31 | Kraps | notalwaysright is getting a bit too ridiculous to be true |
| 23:57.43 | A-KO | what does realid have to do with facebook? |
| 23:57.46 | Kraps | otoh, people are stupid |
| 23:57.46 | Cide- | blizz facebook integration stops at friend of friend |
| 23:57.48 | A-KO | I see nothing with regards to realid and facebook |
| 23:57.48 | Dagmar | If all they're doing is pillaging FB for contacts that'll probably wokr out pretty well |
| 23:58.05 | Thrae | Kraps: Someone who's worked out in retail and directly with customers, it's pretty accurate |
| 23:58.18 | Gnarfoz | Cide-: it doesn't even do that, according to what they announced, unless you could point out a post/announcement that says so |
| 23:58.18 | Cide- | and all it does is to send real ID invites to your facebook friends |
| 23:58.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Cairenn (~Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 23:58.22 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 23:58.29 | Thrae | A-KO: I'm not talking about Facebook at all. I was only talking about Real ID. |
| 23:58.35 | Cloudwolf | AGain |
| 23:58.37 | Gnarfoz | oh, well, nevermind |
| 23:58.38 | Cide- | I don't know the extents |
| 23:58.39 | Cloudwolf | its stops at friends of freinds |
| 23:58.40 | Cide- | but regardless |
| 23:58.41 | Thrae | Aha, Shirik has fixed Cairenn. |
| 23:58.42 | A-KO | Thrae: So how does someone you know on realid know you're an atheist?...... |
| 23:58.54 | A-KO | I don't get it? |
| 23:59.01 | Cide- | if you're okay with facebook and you have a facebook account, then you are okay with real ID |
| 23:59.11 | Thrae | A-KO: They learn it from a friend of friend of friend of friend (to the 20th degree) by word of mouth, or google my name, or whatever. |
| 23:59.14 | Cide- | if that implication holds false for anyone then you're stupid |
| 23:59.24 | A-KO | Thrae: and? It's not like they can talk to you if you don't allow them to? |
| 23:59.30 | Dagmar | Cide-: lol |
| 23:59.39 | Lopeppeppy | I guess I just don't want my platforms integrated. |
| 23:59.43 | A-KO | I do |
| 23:59.45 | Thrae | A-KO: You can cyber-stalk and cyber-taunt people, especially with use of anonymizers like TOR. |
| 23:59.46 | Gnarfoz | Lopeppeppy: that's what she said ;\ |
| 23:59.46 | A-KO | I want everything integrated |
| 23:59.50 | A-KO | I hate 500 fucking accounts to shit |
| 23:59.55 | A-KO | it blows |
| 23:59.57 | Cide- | then decline your friends' real ID invites |
| 23:59.59 | Lunessa | integrates with Lopeppeppy's "platform." |
