| 00:00.00 | eidolarr | given that it makes 0 sense and doesn't match the tried-and-true wc3 scheme |
| 00:00.10 | amro | online team competition fails hard anyway |
| 00:01.07 | eidolarr | the "you want to reset to 0 but still want to be matchmade" paradox is simple |
| 00:01.19 | eidolarr | in WC3 I was a level 33 undead player but a level 11 orc player |
| 00:01.25 | eidolarr | and a level 17 human-heroes-only player |
| 00:01.41 | Amarande | ... I just linked my gf to TV Tropes |
| 00:01.47 | Amarande | I'll probably never see her again now :( lol |
| 00:02.56 | tem | Kraps, lol awesome |
| 00:03.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Kemayo (~kemayo@adsl-76-214-57-194.dsl.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net) |
| 00:03.09 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (~theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 00:03.26 | miica | here is what i did |
| 00:03.28 | miica | http://pastebin.com/vBWRBs1s |
| 00:03.37 | miica | problem is i still checked mark there :/ |
| 00:03.44 | miica | is it possible to hide it? |
| 00:04.23 | eidolarr | i think the 5 prelim matches would have solved 90% of "smurfing" on their own |
| 00:04.43 | tem | miica, FYI, your "classes" table at the top is global. |
| 00:04.46 | tem | that's bad |
| 00:05.17 | NightHawkTheSane | hm. whats to prevent people from intentionally playing badly in the preliminary matches then? |
| 00:05.30 | tem | nothing |
| 00:05.38 | tem | but there's pretty much no reason to do so |
| 00:05.38 | miica | tem: is it? :D |
| 00:05.46 | tem | since you can't reset your rating |
| 00:05.48 | NightHawkTheSane | tem: aside from, you know, being a jerk |
| 00:05.54 | tem | so it just gets you stuck in a low bracket |
| 00:06.00 | tem | and you'll eventually be moved to where you belong |
| 00:06.25 | NightHawkTheSane | tem: well, i meant that in response to eidolarr's statement that the prelim matches "solve" griefing, thus implying ratings resets should be allowed |
| 00:06.29 | tem | miica, variables in lua are global by default unless explicitly made global |
| 00:06.35 | tem | oh |
| 00:06.40 | tem | I disagree with that statement |
| 00:06.55 | tem | because-- like you said-- what stops you from just tanking the placement matches |
| 00:06.58 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: most "smurfing" is legitimate players starting over and having to reclimb the ladder |
| 00:06.59 | theorbtwo | tem: s/global/somethingelse/ on one of them? |
| 00:07.00 | Amarande | tem, I almost read that as "variables in Iowa" |
| 00:07.04 | NightHawkTheSane | tem: my point precisely :) |
| 00:07.13 | tem | explicitly made local* |
| 00:07.23 | Amarande | otoh, nothing in iowa is global by default, hell half the time I forget that iowa even exists |
| 00:07.41 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: I also found that, interestingly, in WC3 most smurfs aren't playing purely to beat up newbies, at least not in their own minds |
| 00:07.55 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: they're playing because they want a good "ratio" and once they get "unlucky" and mess up their ratio they want a good start |
| 00:07.59 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: if thats so, the persistent rating would alleviate that |
| 00:08.25 | theorbtwo | So would an understanding of how the system works, or hiding ratio and showing ranking. |
| 00:08.26 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: my point is that the very dynamic placement matches alleviate it too without killing all of the good parts of separate ratings |
| 00:08.32 | Dagmar | Oh I see, they're not doing it to beat up newbies, they're doing it to get newbies to beat up on |
| 00:08.34 | amro | if that's so, they need to stop failing by giving importance to numbers |
| 00:08.35 | Dagmar | It makes so much more sense now |
| 00:08.45 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: except, again, you're open to griefing |
| 00:08.48 | amro | are they playing for self improvement or for ego boosting? |
| 00:09.05 | tem | ah |
| 00:09.11 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: yeah but I'm saying that the vast majority of instances of higher level players beating up newbies is not people setting out to do that explicitly |
| 00:09.13 | theorbtwo | amro: They are playing for fun, just like everybody else. |
| 00:09.16 | tem | the placement matches DO fix the people wanting a better ratio |
| 00:09.18 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: |
| 00:09.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (n_a@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 00:09.20 | tem | because they're included |
| 00:09.28 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: that's irrelevent, that it happens at all is reason enough |
| 00:09.30 | tem | (in your total wins/losses) |
| 00:09.37 | amro | theorbtwo: clearly not if they want to reset their ratio |
| 00:09.42 | tem | but you ARE still open to people griefing new players |
| 00:09.45 | Dagmar | eidolarr: Except that by it's very nature, it's _exactly_ what they're setting out to do |
| 00:09.58 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: many games have been ruined by the developers crippling ordinary players in their attempts to stamp out griefers/cheaters |
| 00:10.11 | theorbtwo | amro: They just find it to be more fun if they win all the time. |
| 00:10.18 | eidolarr | i'm not impressed by the hyperbole of "ANY smurfing AT ALL makes it worth it" |
| 00:10.21 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: *shrug* none of the ones i play :P |
| 00:10.23 | Amarande | eidolarr: it's a general paradigm fault in the modern world, apparently :| |
| 00:10.30 | Amarande | the first priority is always to analyze and mitigate ABuse |
| 00:10.32 | tem | Dagmar, Your wins and losses in the placement matches count in you "total" wins and losses |
| 00:10.41 | Amarande | usually with very little regard for the impact on legitimate use |
| 00:10.53 | Dagmar | eidolarr: I will flatly refuse to play a game that provides an easy mechanism for griefing dude.... I have many other things I can be doing with my time |
| 00:10.54 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: i take a /very/ hard stance regarding griefing. it's never acceptable to me. |
| 00:10.57 | theorbtwo | Really, why show lifetime wins and losses then? |
| 00:11.11 | tem | theorbtwo, it's a meaningful stat |
| 00:11.17 | tem | and there's no reason to hide it |
| 00:11.35 | tem | Dagmar, so, people who want to reset to get a higher win/loss ratio have are less motivated to just throw those games to get in a low bracket |
| 00:11.37 | tem | HOWEVER |
| 00:11.45 | tem | they changed it to only 5 placement matches |
| 00:11.48 | theorbtwo | There is a reason to hide it -- it encourages you to win, win, win, rather then improve ranking, improve ranking, improve ranking. |
| 00:11.54 | Dagmar | tem: English |
| 00:12.06 | tem | Dagmar, just ignore that have |
| 00:12.07 | tem | sorry |
| 00:12.18 | eidolarr | tem: are they leaving it at 5? I thought that was just to ease beta resets |
| 00:12.23 | tem | dunno |
| 00:12.36 | Dagmar | tem: It still doesn't make sense |
| 00:12.39 | tem | but if it's only 5 in release, it wouldn't be much of a deterrent to those people |
| 00:12.46 | tem | it can sometimes take a while to get moved up |
| 00:12.50 | eidolarr | I reset my account a lot when I was learning WC3 (even though i was still a baddy) and 5 losses is like, ok time to reset for sure |
| 00:12.51 | theorbtwo | Really, though, if you just match people who want extra-easy opponents against people who want extra-hard opponents, then it will stop being a problem. |
| 00:13.05 | Dagmar | They're not going to get a better win/loss ratio by LOSING maches |
| 00:13.08 | tem | so if you just throw those first 5 and get put into copper, it might take 30 or 40 wins to get moved out |
| 00:13.14 | eidolarr | Dagmar: that's the point |
| 00:13.42 | eidolarr | Dagmar: I was saying that a LOT of players who spend much of their time beating up newbies resetting accounts, do it because they want a good ratio, so as soon as they get to their level and start losing games they start over |
| 00:13.56 | tem | unless your wins-losses is 45 - 5 before you get moved out of easymode league |
| 00:13.57 | eidolarr | Dagmar: those players wouldn't smurf in SC2 because they wouldn't sacrifice their starting matches to beat up on newbies |
| 00:14.07 | Dagmar | eidolarr: Yes they would |
| 00:14.27 | Dagmar | ...but if they can reset to get at newbies, they don't need to anywya |
| 00:14.28 | eidolarr | Dagmar: no, they wouldn't. |
| 00:14.29 | tem | Dagmar, we've divided "smurfers" into 2 categories |
| 00:14.41 | tem | 1) People doing it grief |
| 00:14.47 | Dagmar | ANY WAY you slice it, they are deliberately opting for an _unfair_ and _unbalanced_ match |
| 00:14.48 | tem | 2) People doing it to get higher win/loss ratios |
| 00:14.50 | eidolarr | i'm sorry, this situation is not so absolute as "EVERYONE WHO PLAYS AGAINST NEWBIES ARE EVIL AND DESERVE HELL" |
| 00:15.04 | NightHawkTheSane | tem: i kind of fail to see the difference between teh two |
| 00:15.08 | theorbtwo | These are the same sort of people who, playing football, will wear their "lucky" underwear every game if they think it will imrpove their win ratio. |
| 00:15.13 | eidolarr | no, i've talked with a lot of players who did it, and even done it myself |
| 00:15.13 | Dagmar | Their motivation is completely irrelevane to the other player, who only knows they just got roflstomped while they're still trying to figure out how to spawn new guys |
| 00:15.20 | Dagmar | er irrelevant |
| 00:15.27 | tem | NHTS, people in the first group don't mind losing if it keeps the easy opponents coming |
| 00:15.34 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: again, you're misrepresenting the sentiment, it has nothing to do with people who play against newbies, it has everything to do with /experienced/ players who /choose/ to play against less experienced players. |
| 00:15.44 | tem | people in the second group just dont' want to lose at all |
| 00:15.52 | NightHawkTheSane | tem: sure, but regardless both players want easier opponents |
| 00:15.57 | tem | yes |
| 00:15.58 | Dagmar | I doubt people in the first group exist |
| 00:16.01 | tem | well |
| 00:16.04 | tem | not neccesarioly |
| 00:16.08 | tem | neccesarily |
| 00:16.08 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: i don't |
| 00:16.10 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: the point I'm trying to make is that a lot of players doing this don't even realize that what they really want is to kill newbies endlessly |
| 00:16.11 | miica | still have problems with check marks :< |
| 00:16.16 | eidolarr | they just want an excellent ratio |
| 00:16.20 | Dagmar | Unless they're looking to teach new players how to play, which is also highly unlikely |
| 00:16.31 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: so they're dumb AND greifing, so what? :P |
| 00:16.35 | Dagmar | eidolarr: That doesn't change anything |
| 00:16.37 | tem | miica, I missed your original question. What are you trying to accomplish? |
| 00:16.45 | Amarande | Night: doesn't it have to be knowing and intentional to be griefing? |
| 00:16.50 | miica | tem: hi that "check" mark :P |
| 00:16.53 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: so those people would not intentionally throw their placement matches to kill newbies |
| 00:16.55 | miica | hide* |
| 00:16.58 | tem | which? |
| 00:17.03 | theorbtwo | Just stop thinking about it as abuse, and start thinking of it as something a certian part of your userbase wants, and figure out how to make it something the rest of the userbase doesn't get hurt by. |
| 00:17.03 | tem | you're going to have to be more specific |
| 00:17.07 | tem | (a lot more, in fact) |
| 00:17.26 | miica | tem: when i click something it add "check" mark in it and i dont wanna see them :/ |
| 00:17.32 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: they would if they t hought that it would lead to a better win/loss ratio long-term (a la 40-5 for throwing 5 to get an easier bracket) |
| 00:17.40 | Dagmar | theorbtwo: The answer... require signed parental consent forms, and that before each match the parents are required by law to beat that kid's ass |
| 00:17.54 | miica | tem: sec :P |
| 00:17.58 | Dagmar | If the player is an adult, it's a tasering time. |
| 00:17.59 | theorbtwo | Give the people who want to play against people below their rating the option, and match-make them with people who want partners above their rating. |
| 00:18.06 | tem | miica, I understand your problem, I think |
| 00:18.18 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: not really... these players want an excellent ratio because it identifies them as a "good player" |
| 00:18.23 | tem | miica, you need to change the type |
| 00:18.33 | miica | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2302354/WoWScrnShot_061010_031805.jpg :) |
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| 00:18.40 | Dagmar | eidolarr: That's exactly why laddering exists |
| 00:18.41 | miica | see behind text is "check" mark :D |
| 00:18.42 | tem | also, I think you'd be better served by a different ui style |
| 00:18.44 | theorbtwo | eidolarr: The solution to that is to show the rating in big, bold letters. |
| 00:18.45 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: to exploit the new system would be to acknowledge that you're going against the system to pump your ratio on easy opponents, many wouldn't do it |
| 00:18.59 | Dagmar | ...because it's trivial for someone to just pick easy fights to get a higher win ratio. |
| 00:19.13 | Kraps | http://gawker.com/5559346/apples-worst-security-breach-114000-ipad-owners-exposed |
| 00:19.19 | tem | miica, I have to go, but I reccomend you look at the dropdown code of another addon that does the same thing |
| 00:19.20 | theorbtwo | Reseting your rating will then make you feel like a worse player. |
| 00:19.23 | Dagmar | The way to "fix" that is to start publicly mocking people with a high win ratio but a shit ranking |
| 00:19.26 | eidolarr | theorbtwo: I agree people should care less about ratio, but nevertheless many do |
| 00:19.43 | eidolarr | theorbtwo: i don't think hiding info is a solution either |
| 00:20.09 | theorbtwo | Maybe not hiding, but certianly making it less obvious. |
| 00:20.28 | Kraps | http://kotaku.com/5559234/telltale-takes-us-back-to-the-future |
| 00:20.31 | eidolarr | theorbtwo: idk people still care about ratio even in WoW at a high level and it's pretty nonobvious |
| 00:20.37 | theorbtwo | On WoW, you constantly see your XP bar, and get this fancy ding effect & sound, and notifications to your gulidies. |
| 00:21.00 | eidolarr | theorbtwo: people want to see some distinction between players who "just play a lot" to get their rating, and players who win almost every match |
| 00:21.19 | theorbtwo | eidolarr: Then give error bars on the ranking. |
| 00:21.23 | foxlit | "The subscriber data was obtained by a group calling itself Goatse Security." |
| 00:21.39 | theorbtwo | In any case, just playing a lot won't give you a high ranking. |
| 00:21.44 | eidolarr | theorbtwo: seems like a bandaid on the problem tbh |
| 00:21.47 | theorbtwo | It's not monotonicly increasing, like XP. |
| 00:21.49 | eidolarr | theorbtwo: yeah I know but that's the perception |
| 00:21.54 | amro | eidolarr: ever heard of reputation? |
| 00:21.59 | amro | good players will develop one |
| 00:22.05 | amro | without needing a ratio on some scoreboard |
| 00:22.07 | theorbtwo | For what it's worth, I've never played starcraft 3. |
| 00:22.15 | Shirik|Gh | I like it |
| 00:22.17 | Shirik|Gh | I love it |
| 00:22.20 | Shirik|Gh | I want some more of it |
| 00:22.27 | theorbtwo | You can also provide velocity numbers on the ranking. |
| 00:22.33 | eidolarr | amro: sure but for every player with skill 100 and a reputation, there are 100 with skill 95 and no reputation |
| 00:22.35 | theorbtwo | "This player has a quickly increasing ranking". |
| 00:22.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik|Gh (~mpdelbuon@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
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| 00:22.51 | Dagmar | theorbtwo: Hey neither have I. Imagine that! |
| 00:22.59 | amro | eidolarr: what kind of boring ass community would have that? aren't there any events or tourneys? |
| 00:23.03 | eidolarr | believe me it's obvious |
| 00:23.20 | amro | if they don't get exposure through their gameplay, how is a scoreboard going to help? |
| 00:23.30 | eidolarr | amro: ?? there are all of those things in WoW but the majority of players at a high level are hardly even known outside of the top players of their battlegroup |
| 00:23.38 | NightHawkTheSane | amro: because then they can brag in chat |
| 00:23.38 | Dagmar | In theory, the people who give a crap actually look at the scoreboard |
| 00:23.39 | NightHawkTheSane | DUH |
| 00:23.44 | amro | wow is not a valid competitive game |
| 00:23.55 | amro | that's why they're not known, because nobody gives a fuck |
| 00:23.56 | Dagmar | WoW wasn't meant to be a competitive game |
| 00:24.09 | amro | the cause is irrelevant, I'm not bashing it |
| 00:24.15 | amro | I'm just pointing it out |
| 00:24.22 | theorbtwo | Arena was. |
| 00:24.31 | theorbtwo | WoW was designed to be everything to everybody. |
| 00:24.40 | eidolarr | amro: my point is that there are going to be lots of players with reputations sure, but you can't expect reputation to be a primary ranking component because there are just way too many players |
| 00:24.41 | amro | and arena is a huge failure |
| 00:24.47 | Dagmar | WoW was designed to be a *game*. |
| 00:24.58 | amro | eidolarr: my point is if you don't build a reputation, what does your ranking matter anyway? |
| 00:25.05 | Dagmar | It was not designed to be an elaborate sorting mechanism to select for physical and mental fitness and discipline. |
| 00:25.06 | amro | if people don't notice you play, they won't notice your stats either |
| 00:25.20 | eidolarr | there are many many players who care about their ranking, who have no reputation and don't aspire to have one |
| 00:25.35 | eidolarr | in WoW, WC3, any game of this sort |
| 00:25.48 | Jerub | wow was designed to take muds and graphics and the warcraft franchise make money out of it |
| 00:26.03 | eidolarr | I agree that ranking works for the top of the top |
| 00:26.06 | amro | yeah I don't get that. what does rank mean if they don't want reputation? if it's self satisfaction they're after, improving is enough |
| 00:26.12 | eidolarr | but a lot of players never intend to reach that far |
| 00:26.22 | eidolarr | lets you brag lol |
| 00:26.23 | Dagmar | Jerub: No, that's the phrase you use to describe Activision's _purchase_ of Blizzard |
| 00:26.25 | eidolarr | feel good about yourself |
| 00:26.26 | theorbtwo | amro: Your ranking tells you if you are improving. |
| 00:26.27 | eidolarr | talk shit on forums |
| 00:26.52 | Dagmar | Jerub: If Blizzard wasn't solely after making a kick-ass game, they would have never kept on and kept on and kept on postponing release |
| 00:26.56 | amro | theorbtwo: I can tell if I'm improving without a ranking |
| 00:26.58 | eidolarr | those are all reasons people want ranking without caring about having any global or national or even local rep |
| 00:27.23 | amro | that makes no sense eidolarr |
| 00:27.29 | amro | someone who wants to brag and talk shit doesn't want reputation? what? |
| 00:27.37 | NightHawkTheSane | amro: like eidolarr said, rating serves the purpose of letting mediocre players improve their self worth by bragging about how their better than poor players :) |
| 00:27.52 | NightHawkTheSane | they're* |
| 00:27.53 | amro | ~NightHawkTheSane++ |
| 00:27.55 | Jerub | what rating are you guys talking abut? |
| 00:28.02 | eidolarr | it also lets good players improve their self worth by etc etc |
| 00:28.06 | eidolarr | ego is def a part of online gaming :P |
| 00:28.30 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: no, "good" players know better than to attribute self worth to some number. :P |
| 00:28.35 | amro | anyone going for ego wants to be visible somehow |
| 00:28.48 | amro | which means they want a rep of some sort |
| 00:28.52 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: noooo go browse team liquid forums |
| 00:28.55 | eidolarr | patently false |
| 00:28.56 | amro | which, again, they don't need a rank to achieve |
| 00:29.01 | eidolarr | good players ego trip as much as anyone |
| 00:29.06 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: those are not good playrs |
| 00:29.08 | Dagmar | eidolarr: Wrong. |
| 00:29.13 | amro | they aren't good |
| 00:29.14 | theorbtwo | amro: Your own sense of if you are improving will be based mostly on how many games you win or loose -- your ratio. But as mentioned, your ratio isn't a good indicator, because it doesn't take into account how good your opponents are, and doesn't take into account that the matchmaking system is trying it's best to keep your ratio 1:1. |
| 00:29.18 | amro | the best of the best know they're good |
| 00:29.25 | amro | they don't need to prove it to anyone |
| 00:29.46 | amro | theorbtwo: surely you can tell how good your opponents are by how difficult the matches are |
| 00:29.51 | amro | i mean, if you can't tell if you're improving |
| 00:29.59 | *** join/#wowuidev tem (~tardmrr@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
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| 00:29.59 | amro | quite honestly you lack a fundamental understanding of the game you're playing |
| 00:30.04 | eidolarr | well fine, i'll let that go |
| 00:30.05 | Dagmar | ~amro++ |
| 00:30.16 | eidolarr | i mean, here's what it looks like you're saying to me |
| 00:30.28 | eidolarr | "ratio isn't that big a deal because reputation matters a lot to good players" |
| 00:30.34 | theorbtwo | amro: As I stipulated before, I haven't played this game. And yes, new players especially lack a fundamental understanding of the game they are playing. |
| 00:30.38 | eidolarr | but that just doesn't match with the reality i've seen |
| 00:30.39 | amro | no, that's not what I'm saying |
| 00:30.50 | eidolarr | ok, then i'v emisunderstood, please help me out |
| 00:30.52 | amro | theorbtwo: this applies to any competitive game |
| 00:31.00 | Dagmar | eidolarr: Let's try a simple test. Do you know or not whether or not in a game of Tic Tac Toe, if the outcome is determined by the person who goes first? |
| 00:31.15 | amro | I'm saying that reputation isn't dependant on some rating or ratio |
| 00:31.19 | Amarande | theorbtwo: not to mention a lot of game genres suffer from the severest effects of difficulty creep lately |
| 00:31.28 | amro | and if reputation is the ultimate goal, you can bypass the ratio/rating entirely |
| 00:31.49 | Dagmar | amro: Heh yeah just go straight to bragging, lying, and generally making an ass of yourself on some forums |
| 00:31.55 | eidolarr | amro: ok, I'm saying that's true, but it's only true for the absolute top |
| 00:32.03 | Dagmar | ...although it appears there's PLENTY of people who've mastered that |
| 00:32.07 | eidolarr | amro: there are a lot of players who aren't top-100, who don't plan to be, but who make up a huge chunk of the ladder |
| 00:32.12 | amro | eidolarr: it's true for the top and anyone who is dedicated to getting there |
| 00:32.18 | Amarande | Dagmar: yeah, Bobby Fischer comes to mind from a more mainstream game, for instance |
| 00:32.20 | amro | everyone else is going to stop playing in 6 months |
| 00:32.39 | eidolarr | amro: noooo that's not even a little true |
| 00:32.50 | amro | I use stop playing loosely |
| 00:32.52 | eidolarr | i've played WC3 since it came out without ever aspiring of joining a serious clan or making from page ladder |
| 00:32.54 | Dagmar | Amarande: Except he can actually play chess really well--not just talk shit to others about it |
| 00:33.04 | Amarande | Dagmar: Yeah, but he made some pretty outrageous claims |
| 00:33.05 | amro | eidolarr: I misworded there |
| 00:33.07 | Dagmar | That captain guy on TV is another matter |
| 00:33.14 | Amarande | like that he could beat any woman in a match, giving her Knight odds |
| 00:33.22 | amro | eidolarr: by top, I don't mean top of ranking or top of the world, I mean top of your own ability |
| 00:33.24 | NightHawkTheSane | wanders off to drink |
| 00:33.28 | Dagmar | Why bother with risking your ass by taunting heavily armed whaling vessels when you can make shit up and put it on the air anyway |
| 00:33.33 | theorbtwo | Wow. I just logged in to tantrix, which has vaugely the sort of system i think we are talking about... and it hasn't changed since 2003. |
| 00:33.41 | Amarande | Emanuel Lasker, a much brighter light in chess, had tried that in 1894. He failed. |
| 00:34.00 | eidolarr | amro: the problem is that the ladder is like a pyramid structure, if you're not near the top your level is way to big for you to gain a reputation |
| 00:34.07 | eidolarr | amro: although the league system might change that |
| 00:34.26 | eidolarr | maybe you play very nobly and are polite for 20 games in the silver league |
| 00:34.41 | Dagmar | On the other hand, if people want popularity, they could always do things like... |
| 00:34.41 | eidolarr | what are the odds you'll ever see those players again, out of the tens of thousands of other silver players? |
| 00:34.41 | amro | eidolarr: are you familiar with fighting games and the FG community? |
| 00:34.43 | Dagmar | Shower... |
| 00:34.45 | Dagmar | Work out... |
| 00:34.48 | Dagmar | Brush their hair... |
| 00:34.53 | Dagmar | Learn to play the guitar... |
| 00:35.19 | amro | eidolarr: also, not everyone is giong to have a reputation. duh |
| 00:35.23 | eidolarr | amro: yeah but it's not a great comparison, FG community is much smaller, much greater amount of real-life events for community size, not automated onlien matchmaking |
| 00:35.25 | foxlit | http://marvel.com/videos/563.Japanese_Spider-Man_Episode_01 << weird stuff |
| 00:35.47 | amro | eidolarr: it's gotten much bigger |
| 00:35.53 | amro | plus ssf4 is played mostly online |
| 00:35.59 | amro | and it's the biggest game right now |
| 00:36.14 | amro | regardless, the same applies |
| 00:36.23 | Dagmar | foxlit: Attack of the 70's! |
| 00:36.41 | amro | if you want to get better at the game, you don't need any numbers telling you which way to go |
| 00:37.00 | Dagmar | foxlit: Honestly I don't quite get why a country that has ACTUAL FREAKING NINJAS would even care |
| 00:37.00 | eidolarr | well I haven't played ssf4 so maybe there's something to be seen there (although I think there's a huge cultural gap between FG and SC2) |
| 00:37.24 | amro | eidolarr: indeed there is |
| 00:37.27 | eidolarr | but I will say this: i can't name a single player in WC3 below level 30 who i don't play with regularly as a friend |
| 00:37.33 | eidolarr | same in WoW below, say, 2k |
| 00:37.44 | foxlit | Dagmar: the country that has ACTUAL FREAKING NINJAS wants MAGICAL TRANSFORMING ROBOTS. |
| 00:37.46 | eidolarr | i feel like FG has more camaraderie to it |
| 00:37.49 | amro | I failed to parse that sentence |
| 00:37.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (~Tuller@c-69-143-56-163.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 00:37.59 | theorbtwo | Dagmar: Because no country has ACTUAL FREAKING NINJAS, anymore then the US has ACTUAL FREAKING COWBOYS & INDIANS. |
| 00:38.01 | foxlit | I can only presume that people who have transforming robots envy pirates. Or something. |
| 00:38.04 | Dagmar | eidolarr: That has something to do with the fact that _over time_ (a stipulation YOU just made) you _stop_ being under level 30. |
| 00:38.12 | Dagmar | This isn't EQ where if you really, really suck you can delevel. |
| 00:38.18 | eidolarr | Dagmar: reread the sentence |
| 00:38.19 | amro | hahahh |
| 00:38.20 | Amarande | theorbtwo: you're going to claim Ninjutsu *isn't* a real martial arts discipline? |
| 00:38.33 | Amarande | of course, the worst thing martial-arts wise |
| 00:38.42 | Amarande | is when you ask someone what kind of martial arts they're into |
| 00:38.45 | Amarande | and they say 'kung fu' |
| 00:38.49 | Dagmar | Amarande: Clearly he wants to die in the middle of the night of a bad case of "erupting knives" |
| 00:38.52 | eidolarr | amro: in the games I've played with matchmaking, the blizzard RTS ones, no player has a reputatino unless they're excellent |
| 00:39.01 | foxlit | http://cdn.themis-media.com/media/global/images/articles/article/7659/Martin_i257.jpg << nice image, though |
| 00:39.15 | eidolarr | amro: it wouldn't surprise me to findf that's not the case in fighting games, but I find it hard to believe that SC2 will change substantially in that regard |
| 00:39.19 | theorbtwo | Amarande: No, that being a ninja is more then the martial art. |
| 00:39.31 | amro | eidolarr: well, if the community are douches, the matchmaking can't fix that |
| 00:39.42 | eidolarr | Dagmar: in WC3 - not WoW, Warcraft 3 - "level" is like "rating" |
| 00:40.03 | eidolarr | amro: yeah, more emphasis falls to the objective ranking systems |
| 00:40.10 | theorbtwo | Hm, time to confirm some of my basic assumptions. |
| 00:40.23 | eidolarr | amro: so i'm unsure that reputation is a significant deterrant to people griefing |
| 00:40.34 | Kraps | will the Cata beta take only 4 months? doubt it |
| 00:40.34 | amro | eidolarr: anonymity is a catalyst to douchebaggery |
| 00:40.38 | eidolarr | amro: i think many SC2 players will readily be jackasses if it means a better rating |
| 00:40.41 | theorbtwo | You lose or gain a little ranking every time you loose or win a match? |
| 00:41.00 | amro | if people played less random matches and more among acquaintances, it would alleviate the problem |
| 00:41.02 | eidolarr | theorbtwo: yes usually determined by how "hard" the matchup was for you |
| 00:41.09 | eidolarr | theorbtwo: it's a lot like the WoW arena ladder |
| 00:41.19 | Dagmar | theorbtwo: Unfortunately, you're mistaken because there's definitely ninjas and bloody yakuza still |
| 00:41.23 | eidolarr | amro: yeah although again, they killed chatrooms which kind of stifles that |
| 00:41.35 | amro | eidolarr: you don't need chatrooms ;) |
| 00:41.43 | Dagmar | Some parts of JP are still very seriously into bushido and other things which dramatically reduce your life expectancy |
| 00:41.49 | amro | a community can exist outside of the official channels |
| 00:42.06 | Dagmar | Quite a bit like some parts of the SE US are still seriously into snake handling |
| 00:42.28 | eidolarr | amro: yeah but chatrooms immerse you in the community right away, "by default" |
| 00:42.37 | amro | not necessarily |
| 00:42.38 | foxlit | Yeah. |
| 00:42.40 | amro | look at the chat rooms in HoN :P |
| 00:42.44 | eidolarr | amro: it takes a certain level of dedication to pursue the game outside of the game itself |
| 00:42.51 | foxlit | Trade chat really immerses me in the /2 Anal [Riposte] community. |
| 00:43.06 | amro | indeed, and if you don't have that dedication you should reconsider playing that game competitively |
| 00:43.32 | amro | and if you don't want to play competitively, there are other games with less douchebaggery |
| 00:43.34 | miica | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2302354/WoWScrnShot_061010_034019.jpg dont look so cool :(( |
| 00:43.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Jelly-Laptop (~odiusxpop@76.255.79.153) |
| 00:43.46 | eidolarr | amro: well higher level players probably will, but as a total noob in wc3 i learned a lot joining clan channels listening to strat talk |
| 00:44.06 | eidolarr | or joining the Undead Necropolis channel haha |
| 00:44.08 | foxlit | miica: you're skinning everything but the dropdown, which obviously looks out of place. |
| 00:44.43 | miica | foxlit: dont know how to skin that :< |
| 00:44.52 | amro | eidolarr: there's no out of game community? |
| 00:45.17 | eidolarr | amro: no there is, but for a total newbie it's nice to have it immediately available, because you might not even have otherwise thought to look for it |
| 00:45.32 | eidolarr | especially in games involving queuing up and waiting for the matchmaker |
| 00:45.37 | eidolarr | chatrooms are real nice there |
| 00:46.01 | amro | chatrooms are only good if people make use of them, they are not a silver bullet |
| 00:46.18 | Amarande | foxlit: the sad thing is that people rarely link something that would make a decent anal joke, either |
| 00:46.20 | Amarande | like [Ice Lance] |
| 00:46.42 | Xyphoid | there are no decent anal jokes |
| 00:46.42 | Xyphoid | sorry |
| 00:46.53 | Amarande | ok, "somewhat funny anal joke" was what I meant |
| 00:46.54 | Amarande | :P |
| 00:47.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Cairenn (~Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 00:47.08 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 00:47.24 | eidolarr | amro: in my experience they're vibrant and vulgar, especially when the game is new, and then slowly bleed out in usefullness |
| 00:47.31 | amro | a forum is better for strategy anyway |
| 00:47.32 | Amarande | wb Cairenn :) |
| 00:47.34 | eidolarr | but we definitely used them a good amount to find matches, pawn strats, pass the time, w/e |
| 00:47.49 | eidolarr | meh they're different mediums |
| 00:47.53 | Amarande | eidolarr: depends on the game, too |
| 00:47.53 | eidolarr | chat is real time, ingame |
| 00:48.05 | Amarande | for instance, in Guild Wars, the general chat channel became quickly more or less useless |
| 00:48.27 | Amarande | because of the Triad and Tong-supporting bastard gold sellers flooding it with spam, mainly |
| 00:48.29 | Cairenn | thanks Amarande |
| 00:48.44 | eidolarr | amro: forums are definitely integral to a community but i don't think they're a replacement for real time public chat |
| 00:48.51 | amro | eidolarr: which makes it good for match making, bad for strategy discussion |
| 00:49.01 | Amarande | one of my guildies in GW was a female from south asia |
| 00:49.14 | eidolarr | well if you drop in the, say, Zerg Zoo channel and there happens to be a high lvl player there |
| 00:49.14 | Amarande | I have to wonder how much more dangerous her life became because of the destination of the money from idiots who bought gold :| |
| 00:49.21 | eidolarr | you can be like "hey wha'ts up what do you do against X?" |
| 00:49.27 | eidolarr | and get a few answers right there on the spot |
| 00:49.47 | eidolarr | probably less in depth and possibly less reliable than a forum's, but it's immediate and you can follow up with more questions |
| 00:49.53 | amro | I'm not talking about Q&A, nor am I saying chat is useless |
| 00:50.09 | Dagmar | Right |
| 00:50.09 | amro | I'm saying you absolutely need an external community |
| 00:50.23 | alestane | Wow, Cairenn fell off the face of the internet for ages there. |
| 00:50.41 | Cairenn | wants to kill her ISP ... and her computer .... |
| 00:50.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Cloudwolf (~chatzilla@c-71-227-249-44.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 00:51.18 | Dagmar | eidolarr: You can also, of course, just Google a bit and find a strategy as well |
| 00:51.19 | amro | Cairenn: do both at once, implode your computer at your ISP's |
| 00:51.29 | Cairenn | don't f'ing tempt me |
| 00:51.39 | Dagmar | Of course, that would require someone do more than effectively say "someone just tell me what I want to know--don't waste my time making me think" |
| 00:52.21 | eidolarr | amro: yeah I agree with that, i'm just concerned at the lack of chat |
| 00:52.29 | Dagmar | rt-chat is a mixed blessing |
| 00:52.44 | Amarande | indeed ... I'm pretty sure Cairenn wears the Black, which is enough to make her ISP vanish *as if it had never existed* |
| 00:52.47 | eidolarr | amro: idk i played a lot of pickup games formed in battle.net chat |
| 00:53.35 | Dagmar | eidolarr: How many useful things have you leared in /2 as opposed to the Wow forums |
| 00:53.37 | amro | eidolarr: I agree with you that no chat sucks |
| 00:53.43 | eidolarr | amro: It might just be that it's hard for me to imagine a blizzard RTS without battle.net chat, but I think stripping it out was a bad call |
| 00:53.57 | eidolarr | amro: the guy's response in that interview was also annoyingly condescending |
| 00:54.03 | Dagmar | It'll just be the new tradechat is why they dropped it |
| 00:54.26 | Dagmar | Blizz does show indications of learning from past failures |
| 00:54.27 | eidolarr | Dagmar: you learn useful things on the wow forums?? |
| 00:54.37 | Dagmar | eidolarr: yes, actually. |
| 00:54.58 | Dagmar | As hard as the idiots and assholes try, forum mods still manage to sticky useful and informative postings |
| 00:55.26 | foxlit | Heck, forum trolling is still of higher quality than trade trolling |
| 00:55.34 | eidolarr | yeah i was being facetious |
| 00:55.52 | eidolarr | I don't think trade chat is analogous to battle.net chat but I do find it useful sometimes |
| 00:56.02 | eidolarr | usually for very short, simlpe questions |
| 00:56.02 | *** join/#wowuidev pirate (pirate@75-174-90-88.bois.qwest.net) |
| 00:56.31 | Dagmar | eidolarr: That's because the culture has gone downhill badly from a lack of violent killings |
| 00:56.32 | pirate | Is there a tutorial somewhere to show how to make a configuration menu in the default Addons menu? |
| 00:56.55 | eidolarr | pirate: wowwiki has simple examples |
| 00:57.04 | eidolarr | pirate: you basically just build a frame and tell it to stick it in there |
| 00:57.25 | eidolarr | search for "InterfaceOptions" |
| 00:57.44 | Dagmar | You may find this hard to believe, but there was a time in the past when a gaming forum would only see one troll a month. |
| 00:57.57 | foxlit | http://www.wowwiki.com/HOWTOs in general. |
| 00:58.05 | pirate | thanks |
| 00:58.06 | Dagmar | Two in the same week would have people wondering audibly if there was something in the water |
| 00:58.35 | eidolarr | how could it be audible |
| 00:58.39 | eidolarr | there was no voice chat |
| 00:59.01 | Dagmar | s'a euphemism |
| 00:59.55 | Dagmar | You know, like how in closed beta everyone was generally _civil_ to one another and would actually be willing to Google when asked |
| 01:00.53 | Dagmar | ...as opposed to now where it's just a stream of "where do i mine steel?" and the predictable responses |
| 01:00.53 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (~Miranda@237.17.189.109.customer.cdi.no) |
| 01:01.35 | theorbtwo | It's an idiom. A euphemisim is something you say to avoid saying something you shouldn't say in front of euths. Er, youths. |
| 01:01.40 | pirate | yeah, it's such a shame when someone goes, 'where do I mine steel?' and someone else tells them exactly where to go |
| 01:01.53 | Amarande | to a forge! :) |
| 01:02.03 | pirate | a euphemism is like slobbering on your lover's woohoodilly. |
| 01:02.04 | theorbtwo | You don't mine steel. You steal mines. |
| 01:02.27 | Dagmar | theorbtwo: You're right. We actually used to just break into systems and sodomize the accounts of people who trolled overly often. |
| 01:02.38 | Dagmar | This is why I think what the internet needs is more vigilante killings. |
| 01:02.46 | Dagmar | It keeps folks respectful of others. |
| 01:03.09 | theorbtwo | We just need somebody to implement the remote strangulation protocol. |
| 01:03.28 | pirate | There are four types of people on the internet. |
| 01:04.11 | theorbtwo | Those who understand binary, and those who fuck up puns based upon it? |
| 01:04.17 | Dagmar | hahah |
| 01:04.18 | pirate | there are trolls, people how like to cause trouble just to cause trouble. There are elitists, who act like they're better than everyone else and are rarely helpful and like to point people at lmgtfy.com. Then there's the people who just idle. Finally, there's me. |
| 01:04.54 | Cairenn | You live in a very sad world, pirate, I feel sorry for you. |
| 01:05.01 | pirate | lol |
| 01:05.07 | Dagmar | Like I said... more vigilante killings. |
| 01:05.26 | Dagmar | (although in his defense he was clearly trying something new--which is a good start) |
| 01:05.41 | Cairenn | point |
| 01:05.47 | Kraps | "lol im inside you" "thats what she said" |
| 01:05.50 | Kraps | um no |
| 01:06.07 | NightHawkTheSane | Kraps: um, yes, if you're into that :P |
| 01:06.21 | Kraps | good point |
| 01:06.41 | Cairenn | was gonna say ... ummm, yeah, is actually kinda possible :p |
| 01:07.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Sum_Wun (~sumwun@72.183.41.75) |
| 01:07.21 | eidolarr | do you no longer have to reboot when you install video drivers in windows 7? |
| 01:07.21 | NightHawkTheSane | and a not precisely obscure fetish either |
| 01:07.21 | Dagmar | eidolarr: SUPRISE! |
| 01:07.21 | Shirik|Gh | so |
| 01:07.21 | eidolarr | pretty slick |
| 01:07.22 | Shirik|Gh | we were talking about how much I love perforce earlier today |
| 01:07.24 | Dagmar | eidolarr: They finally took their heads out of their asses about that |
| 01:07.27 | Shirik|Gh | I love it even more now |
| 01:07.31 | Shirik|Gh | perforce integrate is way too easy |
| 01:07.47 | Shirik|Gh | it's like as if it were a distributed VCS |
| 01:07.48 | eidolarr | Shirik|Gh: doesn't google use perforce? |
| 01:07.54 | Shirik|Gh | I don't know |
| 01:07.55 | Shirik|Gh | but it's awesome |
| 01:08.07 | eidolarr | i like git |
| 01:08.34 | Shirik|Gh | I hate git |
| 01:08.37 | Shirik|Gh | actually git itself is ok |
| 01:08.44 | Shirik|Gh | the creator of git makes me hate it |
| 01:08.48 | NightHawkTheSane | i hate gits. |
| 01:08.54 | Shirik|Gh | git is made by a git |
| 01:09.00 | eidolarr | you can hate linus but you have to respect him |
| 01:09.02 | NightHawkTheSane | your mom's a git. |
| 01:09.13 | Arrowmaster | google does internally for some things, but perforce isnt free |
| 01:09.21 | Dagmar | Shirik: I think largely they're all still working towards what they consider the "proper way" to track revisions, instead of focusing on "wtf people do to software" |
| 01:10.26 | Shirik|Gh | I don't have to respect linus |
| 01:10.29 | Shirik|Gh | he doesn't respect anything |
| 01:10.33 | Shirik|Gh | so he doesn't deserve any respect |
| 01:10.45 | Arrowmaster | why do you get that idea? |
| 01:10.49 | theorbtwo | Perforce was pretty rocking. The perl core hackers, I know, loved it, except for it being non-free. |
| 01:10.50 | Dagmar | goes to get the torches and pitchforks out of storage |
| 01:10.59 | Shirik|Gh | he talks trash about everything that isn't his |
| 01:11.05 | Dagmar | He |
| 01:11.09 | Shirik|Gh | it's ok to have opinions about things you don't like |
| 01:11.12 | Dagmar | He's generally on target when he's doing it tho |
| 01:11.17 | Shirik|Gh | but he either doesn't care or he hates it |
| 01:11.18 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik|Gh: this is different than you, how? ;) |
| 01:11.20 | Shirik|Gh | there is nothing that he likes |
| 01:11.27 | Shirik|Gh | NightHawkTheSane: EXACTLY! |
| 01:11.30 | Dagmar | ...and the times he hasn't been I can count without takin' off mah shoes |
| 01:11.36 | Shirik|Gh | actually |
| 01:11.37 | Shirik|Gh | I take that bakc |
| 01:11.39 | Shirik|Gh | I love C++ |
| 01:11.44 | Shirik|Gh | he doesn't |
| 01:11.54 | Dagmar | So? |
| 01:12.01 | amro | that for one is a valid reason to dislike him |
| 01:12.03 | Shirik|Gh | NightHawkTheSane was asking the difference |
| 01:12.29 | amro | who doesn't like C++? you need to be evil for that |
| 01:12.29 | Arrowmaster | he doesnt dislike C++, he dislikes how people use it |
| 01:12.29 | Shirik|Gh | ^ |
| 01:12.30 | Shirik|Gh | nop |
| 01:12.30 | Shirik|Gh | he has explicitly called C++ an awful language |
| 01:12.43 | Dagmar | I'd agree there, but there's definitely worse ones |
| 01:12.45 | Shirik|Gh | I have no problem with someone saying C++ is badly used |
| 01:12.51 | Shirik|Gh | I totally agree with that |
| 01:12.55 | Shirik|Gh | but calling the language at fault is totally wrong |
| 01:13.12 | Shirik|Gh | but damn if you convince him that then you need some kind of nobel prize or something |
| 01:13.14 | Dagmar | The problem being most of the "better" languages go straight to "motherfucking impossible for normal humans to code in" |
| 01:13.18 | Dagmar | Like Haskell. |
| 01:13.24 | Shirik|Gh | that's like convincing Hawking there's no such thing as a black hole |
| 01:13.52 | theorbtwo | Shirik|Gh: If the majority of people misuse something it has to reflect on that thing. |
| 01:14.00 | Shirik|Gh | no |
| 01:14.03 | amro | not at all |
| 01:14.05 | Shirik|Gh | it has to reflect on the teachers of that thing |
| 01:14.14 | Dagmar | ...who are typically the users of that thing. |
| 01:14.17 | Shirik|Gh | because almost everyone that teaches C++ has nfi what they're doing |
| 01:14.24 | amro | it's mostly beacuse of a tradition of people thinking C++ has something to do with C |
| 01:14.32 | alestane | A little late, Dagmar, but here you go: http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20060821 |
| 01:14.42 | Dagmar | How is that any different from the number of people who code in it who have nfi what they're doing |
| 01:14.50 | Shirik|Gh | it's not |
| 01:14.54 | Dagmar | amro: Bcause it does |
| 01:14.55 | Shirik|Gh | but that's the problem |
| 01:14.59 | Shirik|Gh | no |
| 01:15.00 | amro | Dagmar: that's not the point, the point is C++ isn't at fault |
| 01:15.02 | Shirik|Gh | C++ is not C with OOP |
| 01:15.23 | Shirik|Gh | it's OOP in a C-like manner |
| 01:15.28 | WobWork | It's C with a couple of +'s added |
| 01:15.32 | Shirik|Gh | no! |
| 01:15.35 | Shirik|Gh | fu |
| 01:15.37 | WobWork | duh |
| 01:15.42 | Dagmar | It's C with some extra libraries taped on |
| 01:15.49 | WobWork | with duct tape |
| 01:15.50 | Shirik|Gh | no |
| 01:15.51 | amro | C++ requires completely different thinking from C |
| 01:15.52 | Shirik|Gh | that's what people use it for |
| 01:15.54 | Shirik|Gh | and that's why it's wrong |
| 01:15.55 | Dagmar | amro: Doesn't matter who is at fault. What matters is the end result |
| 01:15.56 | amro | it's not even in the same ballaprk |
| 01:15.56 | NightHawkTheSane | no, it's obviusly C, incremnted. |
| 01:16.09 | amro | Dagmar: but the end result isn't what we're talking about here =) |
| 01:16.27 | Dagmar | amro: By the same token, I gotta jump through hoops to buy sinus meds that actually do something because *some* people use them to make crystal meth |
| 01:16.34 | Dagmar | I don't blame Tylenol for that |
| 01:16.53 | Dagmar | ...and I don't blame pseudoephedrine either |
| 01:16.56 | amro | erm, I'm confused |
| 01:17.06 | Dagmar | The point being that it *all* matters |
| 01:17.08 | Amarande | Dagmar: again, the paradigm of prioritizing blocking abuse over permitting legitimate use :| |
| 01:17.15 | Dagmar | Who uses it, how well or how badly they use it, and what they use it fotr |
| 01:17.16 | Amarande | WHY is this paradigm such a popular one? |
| 01:17.32 | Amarande | and would crystal meth really have had the potential to end our country like Bush seemed to insist it did? |
| 01:17.45 | eidolarr | wtf does that have to do with coding |
| 01:17.47 | amro | Dagmar: but that's not what we're talking about, and the causes are completely different |
| 01:17.49 | eidolarr | what is with this channel and hyperbole |
| 01:17.51 | Dagmar | Amarande: Because we could have really used a way to stop people from setting up a read into a buffer with no limit on input sizes |
| 01:17.54 | Shirik|Gh | it was a danger to our country as much as the weapons of mass destruction were in iraq |
| 01:17.57 | Shirik|Gh | oh wait |
| 01:17.57 | Amarande | he basically went on about it like "THIS IS AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS" |
| 01:18.01 | amro | yeah I dunno how we went form C++ to crystal meth |
| 01:18.20 | Dagmar | amro: it's essentially the same situation |
| 01:18.43 | eidolarr | no it's not |
| 01:18.46 | Dagmar | You don't get to keep doing what yer doing with it without having to take into consideration what other people are doing with it. |
| 01:18.50 | eidolarr | C++ is nothing like a global narcotic market |
| 01:18.58 | Shirik|Gh | yes you do |
| 01:19.02 | Shirik|Gh | if you make shitty software nobody will buy it |
| 01:19.10 | Dagmar | Not unless you live in a vacuum and don't exchange code with anyone else |
| 01:19.19 | amro | here's the thin |
| 01:19.21 | Shirik|Gh | if I work on a team of very good developers that know C++ |
| 01:19.24 | Shirik|Gh | then yay |
| 01:19.27 | WobWork | comes back to the conversation and is completely lost |
| 01:19.27 | Dagmar | Might as well write your own damn language at that point |
| 01:19.28 | Shirik|Gh | and we become very productive |
| 01:19.30 | amro | crystal meth is problematic because of its very nature |
| 01:19.35 | amro | not because of how people perceive it |
| 01:19.41 | amro | it's completely different |
| 01:19.48 | Dagmar | amro: I'm not taking crystal meth for my sinuses |
| 01:20.01 | amro | and I don't know why we're talking about your sinuses |
| 01:20.21 | Dagmar | because psuedoephedrine is a perfectly fine thing, and quite useful, but people abuse it |
| 01:20.26 | Shirik|Gh | in fact |
| 01:20.30 | Shirik|Gh | the problem isn't languages at all |
| 01:20.37 | Dagmar | it's unrealistic of me to expect to not have to jump through a few hoops because people abuse it |
| 01:20.39 | Shirik|Gh | the problem is people know how to code, but don't know how to write software |
| 01:20.53 | Shirik|Gh | I think the only industries that really have it figured out are aircraft and automotive |
| 01:20.58 | amro | Dagmar: it's not the same thing. you can misuse anything from hammers to napkins |
| 01:21.03 | Shirik|Gh | the others are just like "omg we need to release software wtf get it out now" |
| 01:21.06 | Dagmar | amro: Exactly. |
| 01:21.12 | amro | so what's your point? |
| 01:21.18 | amro | that everythin is inherently flawed? |
| 01:21.20 | Dagmar | You don't get to evaluate C |
| 01:21.29 | eidolarr | well by relating it to crystal meth and george bush you can charge and politicise it |
| 01:21.33 | Dagmar | You don't get to evaluate C++ in a vacuum devoid of what ignorant people do with it |
| 01:21.33 | eidolarr | make it dramatic |
| 01:21.43 | Tentacled | ... and most "computer science courses" or unis or colleges just teach how to code, with not a word said about proper maintenance, usability, thinking like the idiot user, etc |
| 01:21.45 | amro | no, I do |
| 01:21.56 | Shirik|Gh | that's because that's what computer science is, Tentacled |
| 01:21.58 | Dagmar | eidolarr: No, I generally reserve pedophilia for that one. |
| 01:22.01 | amro | a hammer isn't any less useful to me because my neighbor likes to use his to unclog his toilet |
| 01:22.05 | Shirik|Gh | but universities really need to start teaching software engineering, not computer science |
| 01:22.11 | eidolarr | Dagmar: so i've seen |
| 01:22.20 | Tentacled | Well, it can be worded like that. |
| 01:22.33 | Dagmar | Accusing me of politicizing something is a non-starter |
| 01:22.35 | Shirik|Gh | I'm fortunate, I went to an aeronautical univ. |
| 01:22.45 | Shirik|Gh | So I got the very front end of "requirements. requirements. requirements." |
| 01:22.52 | Dagmar | I'd have to care more to polticize |
| 01:22.56 | Shirik|Gh | and I think I'm much better off because of it |
| 01:23.04 | amro | and languages nobody outside avionics uses |
| 01:23.05 | amro | like ada. |
| 01:23.12 | Shirik|Gh | lol |
| 01:23.13 | Shirik|Gh | ada |
| 01:23.16 | Dagmar | The Navy still uses ADA I think |
| 01:23.18 | Amarande | ada is quite a lovely and useful language |
| 01:23.18 | eidolarr | A lot of CS schools focus on math |
| 01:23.23 | Amarande | I should try coding games in it |
| 01:23.33 | Shirik|Gh | Dagmar: A lot of aircraft still do |
| 01:23.48 | Amarande | or would coding games in ada be an exercise in pain :| |
| 01:23.49 | Dagmar | Shirik: Whatever keeps the bluescreens off my flight |
| 01:23.55 | Shirik|Gh | lol |
| 01:24.04 | Dagmar | Amarande: You could probably do Ladder |
| 01:24.05 | Shirik|Gh | not a big deal really |
| 01:24.08 | Dagmar | It was really cool on the Kaypro |
| 01:24.11 | Shirik|Gh | I've actually experienced resets mid-flight |
| 01:24.15 | Shirik|Gh | no problem |
| 01:24.15 | Amarande | mainly because, at least on Windows, every single goddamned library insists on you using C++, pretty much |
| 01:24.26 | Shirik|Gh | if it didn't set off a huge-ass alarm nobody would have known |
| 01:24.27 | Amarande | and on Linux, plain C for the most part |
| 01:24.44 | eidolarr | no |
| 01:24.48 | eidolarr | you can use C++ on linux just fine |
| 01:24.58 | Dagmar | Shirik: When the engine suddenly revs up and the plane wobbles, I can assure you that those of us in the back notice |
| 01:25.02 | eidolarr | it's not the style or culture but sure |
| 01:25.11 | Shirik|Gh | Dagmar: well I was referring to unmanned :) |
| 01:25.29 | eidolarr | a lot of people are talking shit about CS school these days but i thoguht it was tremendously useful |
| 01:25.33 | eidolarr | you get out of it what you put in |
| 01:25.36 | amro | who would let shirik near manned airplanes? |
| 01:25.36 | Amarande | Dagmar: Planes ... now from Toyota? :) |
| 01:25.38 | amro | =) |
| 01:25.43 | Shirik|Gh | lol |
| 01:26.27 | Dagmar | Amarande: I dunno. I was actually thinking specifically of an incident on a flight I was on that almost made me crush my PDA in my hands |
| 01:26.33 | Arrowmaster | amro: they dont, where you not there for when he purposely crashed his UAV simulator |
| 01:26.41 | Shirik|Gh | lool |
| 01:26.45 | Dagmar | Brand new shiny red dot-commie version of teh Handspring Edge |
| 01:26.55 | Shirik|Gh | I crashed it again a few days ago, Arrowmaster |
| 01:26.58 | Shirik|Gh | unintentionally |
| 01:27.06 | Shirik|Gh | I forgot to start the engine |
| 01:27.09 | Dagmar | Stewardesses give the okay, I pull it out, turn it on, and that EXACT SECOND the pilots did osmething weird |
| 01:27.13 | Shirik|Gh | launching the aircraft without the engine doesn't work too well |
| 01:27.24 | Shirik|Gh | I also found out it doesn't set off any alarms |
| 01:27.28 | Arrowmaster | launching? |
| 01:27.32 | Dagmar | Shirik: This is why they have a pre-flight checklist dude |
| 01:27.35 | Shirik|Gh | oh you don't know how the scaneagle works? |
| 01:27.42 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: yes, his plane rides piggyback |
| 01:27.45 | Shirik|Gh | it's intentionally designed for no-runway |
| 01:27.50 | Shirik|Gh | you stick it in a catapault |
| 01:27.54 | Shirik|Gh | and then it gets caught by a rope |
| 01:28.05 | Arrowmaster | oh like an aircraft carrier |
| 01:28.15 | Shirik|Gh | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vK59QZBDMN4&feature=fvst |
| 01:28.26 | Dagmar | Launchable from an SUV so, um, quite a bit smaller than that |
| 01:28.46 | Shirik|Gh | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r6AUpMF_84 |
| 01:28.53 | Dagmar | I'm impressed with the size |
| 01:29.10 | Dagmar | Left to their own devices you know Boeing would make that damn thing only slightly smaller than an Astro van |
| 01:29.54 | Cide | so what's the |Gh for Shirik? |
| 01:29.59 | Cide | playing guitar hero? |
| 01:30.12 | eidolarr | he is all about the guitar hero green day |
| 01:30.22 | Shirik|Gh | it's supposed to say |Ghost |
| 01:30.23 | Shirik|Gh | I think |
| 01:30.28 | Shirik|Gh | actually Dagmar |
| 01:30.30 | Shirik|Gh | we got it smaller |
| 01:30.38 | NightHawkTheSane | shirik totally strikes me as a greenday fan |
| 01:30.41 | Shirik|Gh | the "compressed carriage" |
| 01:30.44 | Shirik|Gh | and I am totally a greenday fan |
| 01:31.07 | Shirik|Gh | compressed carriage: http://www.boeing.com/Features/2010/06/bds_feat_secc_video_06_07_10.html |
| 01:31.16 | Shirik|Gh | can fit inside a torpedo, aircraft bay, etc. |
| 01:31.38 | Shirik|Gh | well not torpedo |
| 01:31.39 | Shirik|Gh | I dunno |
| 01:31.44 | Shirik|Gh | something that a submarine launches |
| 01:31.49 | Shirik|Gh | I don't deal with that :P |
| 01:31.54 | Thunder_Child | then yes |
| 01:31.59 | NightHawkTheSane | im prety sure those are torpedos, yes :P |
| 01:32.01 | Thunder_Child | though they also launch rockets |
| 01:32.08 | Shirik|Gh | but don't torpedos stay underwater? |
| 01:32.09 | Shirik|Gh | like |
| 01:32.13 | Shirik|Gh | aircraft go in the air |
| 01:32.21 | Shirik|Gh | I'm talking about something that's launched into the air and then it expands and flies |
| 01:32.27 | Thunder_Child | then rocket |
| 01:32.51 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI (~chatzilla@ip70-181-89-32.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 01:34.38 | Arrowmaster | like most cruise missiles |
| 01:36.35 | Cide | you can launch Shirik's creation in a fuckin' cruise missile |
| 01:36.37 | Cide | how cool is that |
| 01:36.56 | Thunder_Child | ...you can launch anything in a cruise missle |
| 01:37.03 | Cide | I hear your mom doesn't fit though |
| 01:37.24 | Thunder_Child | like a fridge if you want to |
| 01:37.30 | Cide | that'd be nice |
| 01:37.36 | Cide | *huge explosion* oh... food. |
| 01:37.45 | Cide | nom nom nom |
| 01:41.27 | Kraps | http://notalwaysright.com/the-crazies-always-come-out-when-its-overcast/2049 |
| 01:41.36 | Kraps | HOW IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE |
| 01:43.50 | Cide | pretty sure 911 operators are under nda |
| 01:43.56 | Cide | and pretty sure that's fake |
| 01:46.13 | Dagmar | They are not, in fact, under NDA. |
| 01:46.19 | Cide | you sure? |
| 01:46.28 | Dagmar | Oh yes. |
| 01:46.40 | Dagmar | As to that URL, LSD can easily explain it. |
| 01:47.10 | Dagmar | One of my more unhinged friends walked into a phone booth one fine afternoon, picked up the phone, dialed 0, and explained he would like to save his game. |
| 01:47.26 | Thunder_Child | pfft, LSD can explain EVERYTHING |
| 01:47.44 | Amarande | Dagmar: ok, doing *that* crosses the line into terminal nerdity |
| 01:47.44 | Amarande | heh |
| 01:47.48 | WobWork | why would 911 be under NDA? |
| 01:47.57 | Xyphoid | was he playing Freebase? |
| 01:47.58 | Cide | shrug |
| 01:48.21 | Dagmar | Amarande: Well, the real fun thing was that he was about to try something risky in traffic |
| 01:48.34 | theorbtwo | waits for the 911 operator to post the conversation to notalwaysright. |
| 01:49.12 | Cide | given that a lot of crime reportings go through the operators it wouldn't be implausible that there's a blanket nda to keep the lid on potentially sensitive information |
| 01:50.21 | Amarande | Dagmar: are you on the watch now for your friend's eventual Darwin? :| |
| 01:50.24 | Dagmar | THey make most of it public on a regular basis anyway |
| 01:52.16 | Dagmar | Amarande: In the convoluted logic of the LSD connoisseur, simply crossing the street could be dangerous, because although the signal may give you permission to cross, ther'es no guarantee the crosswalk will stay put, and that sportscar might actually be growling at you personally and not just everyone in general, so you should be cautious unless you want your arm bitten off. |
| 01:52.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (~Kandoko@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 01:52.59 | Xyphoid | http://www.squid.org/freebase.html |
| 01:53.26 | Dagmar | Amarande: So, not "normal" dangerous, but the generalized "everything I do may be crazy and cause people to notice I'm nuts" dangerous |
| 01:54.23 | Dagmar | In this case, my friend was just contemplating crossing the street while wearing a particularly loud shirt. |
| 01:54.33 | Dagmar | You don't even wanna know how that ties in |
| 01:54.45 | Dagmar | Yes, LSD makes you insane |
| 02:05.07 | pirate | sighs. |
| 02:05.17 | pirate | Trying to figure out xml |
| 02:07.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (~Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:07.50 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 02:08.26 | Iriel | Shirik: http://www.cheeseplant.org/~daniel/images/FLY700-800.jpg |
| 02:11.44 | Shirik|Gh | that with the D700? |
| 02:12.34 | Shirik|Gh | ~wiki Great Depression in Australia |
| 02:12.58 | Shirik|Gh | strange people |
| 02:15.11 | Iriel | Shirik|Gh: yes, or rather it's a crop of a picture with it -- I had to work with what I had to hand (handheld shot, ISO 800) |
| 02:15.27 | Iriel | I'll do some real experiments this weekend |
| 02:15.58 | Iriel | All my lenses feel much.. wider.. now |
| 02:16.10 | Iriel | that's going to take some adjusting |
| 02:17.48 | Shirik|Gh | heh |
| 02:18.59 | pirate | what does the error "attempt to concatenate upvalue 'test' (a boolean value)" mean? |
| 02:19.15 | Shirik|Gh | it means you tried to concatenate test |
| 02:19.18 | Shirik|Gh | and test is not a string |
| 02:19.22 | Shirik|Gh | it is a boolean |
| 02:19.25 | Shirik|Gh | and you should not do that |
| 02:19.56 | Iriel | try .. tostring(test) |
| 02:20.11 | Iriel | or, if you're in wow, printing a debug message |
| 02:20.14 | Iriel | print("something", test) |
| 02:20.59 | Iriel | Shirik|Gh: What does '|Gh' stand for? |
| 02:21.32 | Shirik|Gh | the fact that znc can't handle names longer than 9 characters |
| 02:21.34 | pirate | he's a Ghost Hunter, of course |
| 02:21.46 | Shirik|Gh | and that I haven't fixed my name yet |
| 02:21.50 | Shirik|Gh | it's supposed to say Shirik|Ghost |
| 02:21.56 | Shirik|Gh | which is my alternate name when I double-connect |
| 02:23.45 | Iriel | ah, that's far less interesting 8-) |
| 02:27.43 | Iriel | http://www.cheeseplant.org/~daniel/images/FLY700-FULL.jpg |
| 02:29.57 | Thunder_Child | you know i have Shirik's problem, i always sound cool till i explain. |
| 02:31.54 | WobWork | nah, just til you open your mouth =) |
| 02:32.44 | Thunder_Child | thats what she said |
| 02:41.42 | Dashkal | Best talent name ever: "Nom nom nom" |
| 02:42.01 | Amarande | which class is that? |
| 02:42.18 | Dashkal | Druid. Tier 10 |
| 02:42.27 | Dashkal | Sadly, it's NNF (I'm assuming name-not-final) |
| 02:42.33 | Arrowmaster | feral? |
| 02:42.36 | Dashkal | yes |
| 02:42.46 | Dashkal | Cool ability too. Ferocious bite refreshes rip's duration |
| 02:43.25 | Amarande | apparently someone posited an important question about DPS |
| 02:43.39 | Amarande | is it better to have consistent DPS throughout, or the ability to do faster bursts at the end? |
| 02:43.59 | Dagmar | Dashkal: Darn right it shouldn't be the final name. It should be "OM NOM NOM", not "NOM NOM NOM". |
| 02:44.16 | Dagmar | Amarande: Depends on the fight |
| 02:44.55 | Xyphoid | controlled burst is always going to be valuable |
| 02:44.59 | Dagmar | If there's times when it would be more important for burst, then the latter. I figure bursting at the end is of marginal utility |
| 02:45.17 | Amarande | I'm supposing they're going to stick with the usual paradigm of masochistic bosses that get more dangerous the more you wear them down, though |
| 02:45.28 | Amarande | which is why all the "below 35%, extra damage" stuff is apparently so valuable |
| 02:46.03 | Amarande | the Xenosaga II type paradigm where you basically can't even let the boss have a TURN at low enough HP |
| 02:50.25 | Dashkal | Dagmar: You be right! om nom nom it is |
| 02:50.49 | Amarande | om noma shivaya? |
| 02:51.10 | Amarande | okay, I probably shouldn't turn mantras into jokes, lest I be reincarnated as a bug or something heh |
| 02:52.55 | Amarande | so |
| 02:53.06 | Amarande | is cata going to have to retool the gnomish expansive mind racial? |
| 02:53.21 | Dashkal | *blinks* No rogue sword spec in the current iteration? |
| 02:53.35 | Amarande | Dashkal: they were doing away with specific weapon specs in cata, last I heard |
| 02:53.44 | Amarande | that was in the preview blue posts Blizzard posted |
| 02:53.52 | Dashkal | Close quarters (dagger crit) and mace (armor pen) are still in |
| 02:54.06 | Amarande | suspects most of the alliance racials may have to be retooled |
| 02:54.07 | Dashkal | *shrugs* they did mention repeatedly that this is being iterated on |
| 02:54.27 | Amarande | I can see Alliance raids very likely getting nearly ALL of the realm firsts in Cata if the racials were kept as current |
| 02:54.47 | Dashkal | Definitely work in progress. there's an identical "Dagger specialization" talent still in sublety |
| 02:54.48 | Amarande | since well ... they'd have better healers (the human spirit) |
| 02:54.58 | Amarande | they'd have better DPS casters (gnomish Expansive Mind) |
| 02:55.09 | Amarande | which probably would be BROKEN with int being used as spellpower |
| 02:55.28 | Amarande | they'd have better DPS in general (worgen have a passive damage bonus, from what I'm seeing at EJ?) |
| 02:55.53 | Dagmar | Extra damage per second from flea bites |
| 02:56.19 | Amarande | in addition to the fact that their DPS are a little better in general as it is (because that's 1% worth of hit rating that Alliance raiders don't need that Horde raiders do, due to Draenei racial) |
| 02:56.44 | Amarande | I fail to see any counterbalancing advantages at all for Horde |
| 02:56.52 | Amarande | no wonder Alliance dominates the PvE scene on so many realms, even now |
| 02:56.52 | Dashkal | The +hit bits are all vanishing |
| 02:57.06 | Amarande | what's the draenei racial passive going to be then? |
| 02:57.11 | Dashkal | Who knows? |
| 02:57.35 | Dashkal | Not yet annoucned. Just that they did say that any raid +hit bonus is going bye-bye |
| 02:57.41 | Dashkal | So no more gearing based on raid comp |
| 02:58.03 | Amarande | Horde's racial DPS boosts are limited apparently to Orcs and Trolls, and except for the beast bonus for Trolls, are short-term on CDs |
| 02:58.28 | Amarande | Dash: is the 3% hit debuff from improved faerie fire and the shadow priest thing going away too? |
| 02:58.32 | Dashkal | Take the current racials and pretty much forget about them. They've mentioned more than once that the racials are all being redone. |
| 02:58.36 | Amarande | that one's a debuff on the mob, rather than a buff on the raid ... |
| 02:58.55 | Dashkal | Amarande: Given that it has the same effect, I'd bet yes. But no blue has explicitly said so. |
| 02:58.59 | Amarande | but it also means that raids that have a shadow priest or moonkin can skip 3% hit |
| 02:59.29 | Iriel | The blizzcon goblin racials were pretty neat |
| 02:59.29 | Amarande | yay, make shadow priests and boomkin less useful |
| 02:59.33 | Dashkal | I'm willing to bet that they thought of that and those will go. But again, no explicit "These talents are going away" blue post that I've seen |
| 02:59.45 | Amarande | Dash, do you get the impression that they're trying to go back to the classic way of shoehorning hybrids into being mostly healers again? |
| 02:59.59 | Dashkal | Amarande: Do keep in mind that they've been beating the "No class should be invited based on some killer buff" drum since WotLK alpha. |
| 03:00.18 | Amarande | DPS Shamans' raid utility is being significantly decreased, between the totem nerfs and the fact that mages will get Bloodlust |
| 03:00.28 | Dashkal | I don't see that. I'm not an eliete player. In my guild, player skill grossly trumps the 5% tax |
| 03:00.44 | Amarande | Boomkin and shadow priests are losing some of their raid utility |
| 03:00.45 | Dashkal | And I can do far more damage as a DK than I could as a rogue. |
| 03:00.53 | Amarande | and shadow priests in particular, have been hurting already |
| 03:00.54 | Dashkal | Simply because I know it better |
| 03:01.16 | Dashkal | You're trying to compare with current numbers. No good when everything is being shaken up. |
| 03:01.18 | Amarande | priests in raids even in WotLK are almost forced to heal at this point because shadow scales increasingly poorly with progression |
| 03:01.24 | NightHawkTheSane | Dashkal: shockingly, skill does that even in 'elite' guilds. |
| 03:01.35 | Dashkal | NightHawkTheSane: shhh, sheeple don't know that! |
| 03:01.36 | *** join/#wowuidev WobWork (~Wobwork@136.136.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 03:01.52 | Dashkal | They just wanna read EJ and pick the 'best' clas... |
| 03:01.55 | NightHawkTheSane | Dashkal: no, they pretend not to know it becaues it covers up their own inteptitude |
| 03:02.01 | Dashkal | amen |
| 03:02.09 | Amarande | Boomkin ... well ... they're boomkin. they're pretty much mages, for the most part |
| 03:02.36 | Dashkal | I'm going to have to relearn to DPS. My favoured spec was blood DPS. Did pretty damn well with it. Oh well. Frost DW looks entertaining. |
| 03:02.39 | NightHawkTheSane | i hate seeing gc have to say it often enough, but it really is true that everyone who thinks their class needs buffs would be better off just fucking learning to play better |
| 03:02.46 | Jamash | ^ |
| 03:02.48 | Amarande | however, currently boomkin have SIGNIFICANT raid utility, because having one means your entire raid can skip 3% hit rating on gear and reroute that item budget to direct DPS stats |
| 03:03.04 | Amarande | if that's going away, then they're going to be just a source of pewpew, and little more |
| 03:03.23 | Dashkal | Amarande: Were they to do something simple like boost the coefficients on starfall and wrath, they're damage would be just fine. That's a trivial knob to adjust. |
| 03:03.29 | Jamash | Hi, I'm cataclysm, I'm different from wrath, have we met? |
| 03:04.02 | NightHawkTheSane | Jamash: for Amarande it's more like "hi, i'm reality, different from your delusions of conspiracies and martyrdom, have we met?" :P |
| 03:04.10 | Jerub | Amarande: that's an interesting point of view i've never heard when discussing raid makeup. |
| 03:04.20 | Jamash | :P |
| 03:04.24 | Jerub | "hey everyone, nerf your hit rating by regemming because we've finally god a boomkin" |
| 03:04.55 | Amarande | Jerub: does anyone really gem for hit anymore besides cats? :) |
| 03:05.00 | NightHawkTheSane | on a vaguely related note, i'm glad their getting rid of those talents |
| 03:05.05 | Jerub | most raiders i know would facepalm and ignore you if you even suggested targetting 3% under hitcap |
| 03:05.10 | Kraps | yeah, i was trying to figure out what he was saying |
| 03:05.24 | NightHawkTheSane | they're* jesus i'm off tonight |
| 03:05.56 | Amarande | Jerub: however, the presence of a boomkin in a regular guild raid pretty much does indicate shedding 3% worth of hit rating when upgrading gear |
| 03:06.00 | NightHawkTheSane | Jerub: I actually used to, when i very reliably raided with several shadow priests |
| 03:06.11 | Kraps | otoh, i think top end might do that |
| 03:06.20 | Kraps | top end guilds* |
| 03:06.37 | Amarande | because, since FF is going to generally be on the boss if the boomkin knows what they are doing (and generally if you're masochistic enough to spec dps on a druid instead of tank or healer for those quick queues, it's because you know and love the boomkin playstyle ...) |
| 03:06.46 | Amarande | the raid is going to generally be 3% over their hit cap |
| 03:06.53 | Amarande | and being over the hit cap is bad, mmmkay? :) |
| 03:07.05 | NightHawkTheSane | *shrug* |
| 03:07.08 | Amarande | unless you're a dual wield class where you have a soft hit cap and an unreachable hard cap |
| 03:07.11 | Jamash | so you regem every time your boomkin can or can't make the raid? |
| 03:07.19 | NightHawkTheSane | honestly, even if i were to reliably raid with one now, i wouldn't regem for it |
| 03:07.32 | NightHawkTheSane | 3% is such a tiny amount of dps that it really doesnt matter |
| 03:07.48 | Amarande | Jamash: you hold onto the piece or two that you replaced, in case? |
| 03:07.50 | WobWork | this ^ |
| 03:08.02 | Jamash | I don't. |
| 03:08.04 | NightHawkTheSane | (well, not that regemming would matter, as i'm over cap without gemming it ANYWAY) |
| 03:08.11 | Kraps | more work than its worth imo |
| 03:08.12 | NightHawkTheSane | (but my point stands) |
| 03:08.17 | Amarande | hell, remember the days when progression tanks used to be expected to have multiple sets of tank gear just in case shit broke due to too many wipes? :) |
| 03:08.33 | Jamash | no |
| 03:08.33 | WobWork | that hasn't happened since Jeeves =P |
| 03:08.42 | NightHawkTheSane | that never happened |
| 03:08.46 | WobWork | also since warlocks could summon in instances |
| 03:08.53 | Amarande | yeah, I'm talking of the olden days |
| 03:09.03 | Amarande | at least, it was strongly encouraged to have spare weapons |
| 03:09.07 | WobWork | The good old 'Raiding Scholo' days? =P |
| 03:09.11 | Kraps | WAIT WHAT http://www.mmo-champion.com/ |
| 03:09.14 | Amarande | since those lose dura faster than other gear |
| 03:09.32 | WobWork | Kraps: hm unfortunatey |
| 03:09.34 | WobWork | -y |
| 03:09.40 | Kraps | WHY |
| 03:09.53 | Arrowmaster | the only time i can remember is on Rag the tanks would have more than one weapon |
| 03:09.54 | WobWork | oh it's back up now |
| 03:10.09 | Arrowmaster | but still we just dropped repair bots when needed so they never really used the backups |
| 03:10.13 | WobWork | Kraps: what's the problem? |
| 03:10.16 | NightHawkTheSane | Arrowmaster: yeah, but that was a specific rag mechanic, wasnt it? |
| 03:10.22 | Arrowmaster | yes |
| 03:10.24 | Jerub | anyone know anything about the android armory app? |
| 03:10.28 | Jerub | is it out? does it work on 1.5? |
| 03:10.37 | Kraps | WobWork: ITS THE OPPOSITE OF A PROBLEM |
| 03:10.55 | WobWork | hehe " When you critically hit with Starfire, you have a 101% chance of increasing damage done by Wrath by 0%" |
| 03:11.02 | WobWork | woohoo! Critical FAIL =P |
| 03:11.12 | Amarande | starfall ... teaching people just how HUGE 30 yards is in WoW since 2008 |
| 03:11.16 | WobWork | this ^ |
| 03:11.36 | Jerub | i've never played boomkin |
| 03:11.39 | WobWork | Boomkins -never- understand -just- how wide 75 yards is til they use it in a dungeon |
| 03:11.41 | Jerub | i've play kitty tree and bear |
| 03:11.52 | Amarande | although, given that entire continents are only like 25,000 yards long |
| 03:12.05 | Kraps | AMG |
| 03:12.14 | Kraps | TWIN DISCIPLINES |
| 03:12.14 | Amarande | I tried cat, and then decided to go balance after deciding cat wasn't my thing |
| 03:12.35 | WobWork | Atonement looks cool for a pvp talent |
| 03:12.43 | WobWork | zomg, twin disc |
| 03:12.47 | WobWork | <3 |
| 03:12.51 | Amarande | think they'll make frost mages viable for raiding in cata? |
| 03:13.07 | Amarande | right now they're practically as black sheep as running frost DPS 2H on a DK |
| 03:13.10 | Kraps | imp inner fire has 3 ranks? |
| 03:13.27 | WobWork | wow, we're totally going to be dpsing as healers now |
| 03:13.52 | Jamash | I like the concept of throwing out smites as disc |
| 03:13.55 | Kraps | AMG ATONEMENT |
| 03:13.55 | WobWork | with Evangilism |
| 03:13.58 | Amarande | Wob: heh, is there much of anything in dungeons that starfall is viable to use against? |
| 03:14.16 | Amarande | except maybe guys like Ingvar that are all alone in a room at the end of a long corridor? |
| 03:14.44 | Xyphoid | wotlk dungeons don't tend to have the trash crammed together |
| 03:14.49 | Xyphoid | i see starfall used a lot in heroics |
| 03:14.55 | WobWork | yeah |
| 03:15.00 | WobWork | you can use it... wisely |
| 03:15.01 | Amarande | although I suppose in today's world of 55k HP tanks, the tank can afford to have three or so groups pulled at once heh |
| 03:15.11 | Jamash | in cata tanks will have 100k hp |
| 03:15.13 | WobWork | just hug walls a lot =) |
| 03:15.16 | Kraps | will Evangilism also lower the cost of penance (heal) and nova (heal)? |
| 03:15.27 | Amarande | Jamash: I thought it was generally indicated tanks wouldn't have much more HP than they do now |
| 03:15.30 | Xyphoid | it's fun doing BRD and seeing just how close together the trash packs are |
| 03:15.39 | Amarande | and, in fact, that classes will not have that significantly different HP vs. each other as they do now |
| 03:15.41 | WobWork | Kraps: looks like |
| 03:15.58 | Kraps | ARCHANGEL |
| 03:16.02 | Kraps | SO BADASS |
| 03:16.09 | WobWork | Kraps: 6% per stack |
| 03:16.18 | WobWork | so 30% reduction... awesome |
| 03:16.59 | Kraps | penance while moving |
| 03:17.00 | Adys | Kraps: what's up? |
| 03:17.05 | WobWork | I see smite working it's way solidly into my rotation |
| 03:17.12 | WobWork | just to keep stacks of evang up |
| 03:17.24 | WobWork | with Archangel for emergencies =) |
| 03:17.36 | WobWork | (I hope there's an -awesome- animation for that spell) |
| 03:18.00 | Jerub | i want cata regrowth :(( |
| 03:18.01 | Jamash | smite heal smite heal smite heal smite heal BOOM ARCHANGEL |
| 03:18.25 | Jerub | Jamash: i thought in cata tanks would hvae same hp as mages |
| 03:18.46 | Jamash | one hundred thousand hp, baby |
| 03:18.53 | Kraps | WobWork: um, Soul Warding |
| 03:19.03 | Kraps | Reduces the cooldown of your Power Word: Shield ability by 1/2/3 seconds, |
| 03:19.08 | Amarande | Jerub: I wonder if this means OMGWTF AoE is going to become a lot more common among raid bosses |
| 03:19.33 | Amarande | they've gotta be giving us all this HP for a reason :) |
| 03:19.36 | Kraps | what does that mean WobWork? |
| 03:20.11 | WobWork | Kraps: that means a 1 second cooldown...? |
| 03:20.12 | WobWork | wtf? |
| 03:20.20 | Kraps | !! |
| 03:20.21 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: except, for the part where they kind of said the exact opposite of that, sure. |
| 03:20.22 | WobWork | it's a 4 second cooldown normally |
| 03:20.26 | Kraps | yes |
| 03:20.39 | WobWork | !! |
| 03:20.43 | WobWork | no more bubblespamming? |
| 03:21.00 | NightHawkTheSane | thats probably a good thing |
| 03:21.24 | Kraps | no |
| 03:21.27 | Kraps | nononono |
| 03:21.32 | Jamash | is there a difference between a 1 sec cooldown and a 0 sec cooldown? |
| 03:21.48 | NightHawkTheSane | Jamash: if ALL you do is spam pw;s, yes. Otherwise no. |
| 03:21.51 | NightHawkTheSane | which is kind of the point. |
| 03:22.00 | WobWork | GCD limited cast, and waiting =P |
| 03:22.07 | Amarande | PW:S is win and awesome and godliness and fun |
| 03:22.10 | Jamash | I mean, the GCD has a 1 second minimum, so...? |
| 03:22.13 | Amarande | <3 bubbles |
| 03:22.22 | NightHawkTheSane | Jamash: mhm, forgot about that, good point. |
| 03:22.39 | Adys | that, or they might increase the cooldown on PWS |
| 03:22.42 | Jerub | Amarande: what the blues have said on the forums is that they're not aiming to do that, it's going to be like today, but instead of tanks surviving because of massive health pools, it'll be because of massive damage mitigation. |
| 03:22.43 | Kraps | Jamash: thats why it makes no sense |
| 03:22.53 | NightHawkTheSane | Adys: that's a good bet. |
| 03:23.22 | Amarande | Jerub: so we're going back to the halcyon days of BC where tanks needed 102.4% avoidance and all that? :) |
| 03:23.23 | Kraps | reflective shield is still there |
| 03:23.26 | Kraps | wtf |
| 03:23.29 | Jerub | Amarande: sure. |
| 03:23.39 | NightHawkTheSane | ... |
| 03:23.59 | NightHawkTheSane | tanks didn't need full avoidance except for one specicific fight that was designed specifically to do that. |
| 03:24.03 | Jamash | I remember the time a rogue tanked gruul with capped avoidance |
| 03:24.09 | NightHawkTheSane | we're not going "back" to anything |
| 03:24.36 | Amarande | Jamash: well Gruul not very smart, anyway |
| 03:24.53 | Jamash | Gruul smarter than dragon! Ha! |
| 03:25.12 | Kraps | they nerfed ipm FH and renewed hope :( |
| 03:25.21 | Kraps | ipm = imp |
| 03:26.30 | Jamash | did they? |
| 03:27.12 | WobWork | Kraps: Borrowed Time |
| 03:27.23 | WobWork | absorption rate down from 40% of SP |
| 03:27.52 | Kraps | hmm |
| 03:28.00 | Amarande | hmm |
| 03:28.07 | Amarande | you guys think disc healing will still be fully viable in cata? |
| 03:28.17 | WobWork | I dunno |
| 03:28.20 | WobWork | I'll have to see to see |
| 03:28.22 | Amarande | or will we have to switch back to Fail Angel and leave disc for the PvP folks? |
| 03:28.50 | Amarande | I'd like to see frost mages get their time in the sun as raid dps |
| 03:28.59 | NightHawkTheSane | well i think good players will be able to do what they want |
| 03:29.06 | NightHawkTheSane | you'll probaly have to switch and complain about it :P |
| 03:29.17 | Dagmar | I'd like to see mages tank a bit |
| 03:29.22 | Kraps | if they dont take away shield spam it will be viable still |
| 03:29.32 | WobWork |  After casting any shock spell, your next heal's mana cost is reduced by 15/30/45/60/75% of the cost of the shock spell, and its healing effectiveness is increased by 5/10/15/20/25% |
| 03:29.50 | WobWork | hm, that's a 25% mana shock spell that boosts healing by 25% |
| 03:29.54 | NightHawkTheSane | Kraps: they have to take a way shield spam, or nerf it to be less viable. i'd rather they just gave it a CD |
| 03:30.17 | WobWork | so... I wonder if windshear still counts as a shock spell there |
| 03:30.18 | Jamash | they're adding pw:barrier remember |
| 03:30.23 | NightHawkTheSane | WobWork: i saw that. i dont think it does :) |
| 03:30.26 | Amarande | Night: you already can't shield any individual more often than every ... what is it, 15 seconds? Isn't that enough? |
| 03:30.42 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: in a 25 man raid, not really. |
| 03:31.03 | Amarande | unless you're in wimpy ass BC dungeons anyway where you just cast shield on the tank and half the time you don't even have to heal so you can just keep shielding everyone and not having to heal :P |
| 03:31.18 | Kraps | i dont want "holy with more shields" :( |
| 03:31.42 | Amarande | yeah, I specced Disc because I was promised by a blog that it would be fun and lo and behold IT IS FUN |
| 03:31.51 | NightHawkTheSane | you wont be, unless you plan on somehow casting circle of healing, etc |
| 03:31.55 | Amarande | holy is called Fail Angel spec for a reason :) |
| 03:31.58 | Dagmar | Amarande++ |
| 03:32.11 | Amarande | yeah, thats one problem with holy, too |
| 03:32.19 | Amarande | at least with disc, when you die, you get to die in peace |
| 03:32.21 | NightHawkTheSane | disc does NOT need spammable shields to be viable and fun |
| 03:32.34 | Kraps | says you >:( |
| 03:32.35 | Amarande | when you die as holy, you get a huge honking super bright beacon alerting the raid "HEY, I SCREWED UP" |
| 03:32.41 | NightHawkTheSane | yes, this is me, saying it. |
| 03:32.48 | Kraps | k |
| 03:32.50 | Kraps | :p |
| 03:32.56 | NightHawkTheSane | the world wont end if disc priests cast something other than shield |
| 03:33.04 | Dagmar | Amarande: What it really needs, just to top things off, mind you, is a /dance animation |
| 03:33.10 | Jamash | haha |
| 03:33.10 | WobWork | what would be a 'fun spell' for disc? |
| 03:33.12 | Amarande | yeah, I might actually have to do something besides cast PW:S and sit on my ass until weakened soul wears off on the tank |
| 03:33.16 | WobWork | BUBBLE CANNON |
| 03:33.23 | NightHawkTheSane | WobWork: i actually liked that smite mechanic ;) |
| 03:33.30 | Kraps | never heard the term "Fail Angel" |
| 03:33.32 | Amarande | which pretty much got me through like EVERY BC dungeon I did |
| 03:33.35 | WobWork | PW:S's people in a cone in front of the caster for X yards =) |
| 03:33.48 | NightHawkTheSane | Kraps: i think it's only used by bad players who blame their tools ;) |
| 03:33.52 | Amarande | I think MgT and Steamvaults were the only ones where I had to do serious healing |
| 03:33.54 | Kraps | lol |
| 03:34.02 | Amarande | and in SV only because people fucked up and let kallithresh power up |
| 03:34.29 | Amarande | Kraps: it's basically Lyrandre's term from the I Like Bubbles blog |
| 03:34.31 | Amarande | but it fits |
| 03:34.38 | Dagmar | m/sg Kraps that's because they were calling Amarande that, not the class |
| 03:34.39 | Jamash | I got halfway through healing a heroic a while back before I remembered to use prayer of healing |
| 03:34.40 | Kraps | at lease the smite thing is something new to do |
| 03:34.40 | Amarande | it's an angel, and it alerts everyone for miles around you that you just failed :) |
| 03:34.41 | Dagmar | ops |
| 03:34.45 | WobWork | yeah |
| 03:34.50 | WobWork | by the time FailAngel shows up |
| 03:34.51 | Kraps | ~fail Dagmar |
| 03:35.01 | purl | Dagmar: FAIL! |
| 03:35.01 | WobWork | you know you've failed =P |
| 03:35.13 | Kraps | purl: you're slow |
| 03:35.14 | purl | i'll take that as a complement |
| 03:35.21 | Kraps | dang it |
| 03:35.28 | Dagmar | purl: You're a member of BP management |
| 03:35.29 | purl | I know you are but what am I? |
| 03:35.42 | Amarande | Dagmar: heh, that's an idea |
| 03:35.45 | Amarande | if I ever start a guild of my own |
| 03:35.58 | Amarande | I'll make the lowest rank "BP Executive" |
| 03:36.06 | Dagmar | You could also call it "Greasy Colonists" |
| 03:36.18 | Kraps | so do other healing specs get to dps? |
| 03:36.38 | Amarande | Kraps: I don't think dps while healing is expected to be a serious part of cata, even if the talents seem to encourage it |
| 03:36.41 | WobWork | shaman possibly could |
| 03:36.42 | Amarande | mostly I'm thinking about hit rating |
| 03:36.56 | Amarande | especially with the blue posts talking about boss levels that increase with content tier |
| 03:36.57 | WobWork | hit rating would be.. worrying |
| 03:37.05 | Amarande | thus, by high tier content, yeah, you'd be missing half the time or more, probably |
| 03:37.11 | Jamash | didn't you see the +20% hit talent? |
| 03:37.17 | Amarande | remembering that heal gear gives like, NO hit |
| 03:37.31 | Jamash | # Divine Accuracy (2 ranks available) - Increases the chance to hit with your Smite, Holy Fire, Holy Nova and Penance spells by 10/20%. |
| 03:37.35 | Jamash | badum tish |
| 03:37.48 | Amarande | and penance? |
| 03:38.05 | Amarande | um ... isn't penance generally the one thing you *always* use for its healing factor and not as a damage tool |
| 03:38.12 | Jamash | yeah |
| 03:38.18 | Amarande | unless you're solo questing, and you don't need +hit% for solo questing |
| 03:38.29 | Amarande | unless you're one of those crazies who quests on orange and red mobs |
| 03:38.43 | WobWork | pft |
| 03:38.48 | WobWork | I use penance in some pugs |
| 03:38.51 | Dagmar | Amarande: Something wrong with that? |
| 03:39.04 | Amarande | Dagmar: questing on orange and red mobs just seems kinda masochistic |
| 03:39.07 | WobWork | the sort of pug where they're just on the border of not being able to be supported by shadowspec alone |
| 03:39.14 | Amarande | especially since unless they're going to lower the grey threshold so even -5 levels is grey |
| 03:39.15 | WobWork | so I dps in disc spec |
| 03:39.22 | Amarande | Wrath quests will still be green at 85 |
| 03:39.48 | Kraps | grace was nerfed |
| 03:40.04 | NightHawkTheSane | WobWork: fun thing to do on my priest, do the most damage and healing in an instance ;) |
| 03:40.22 | Amarande | also, out of respect for religious gamers, all rez spells will now require three days to cast |
| 03:40.31 | WobWork | Kraps: is it? |
| 03:40.52 | Kraps | 8% instead of 9% |
| 03:40.53 | WobWork | looks like it's up from 9 to 12 |
| 03:40.53 | Amarande | they will also only work on priests and paladins, not the "wicked" other classes |
| 03:41.04 | Kraps | stacks twice |
| 03:41.12 | WobWork | thrice? |
| 03:41.15 | Amarande | if you die as another class, sorry, you have to wait till server reset to respawn :D |
| 03:41.18 | WobWork | Your Flash Heal, Greater Heal, and Penance spells bless the target with Grace, increasing all healing received from the Priest by 2/4%. This effect will stack up to 3 times. Effect lasts 15 seconds. Grace can only be active on one target at a time. |
| 03:41.38 | Kraps | durr |
| 03:41.46 | Kraps | mmoc fail |
| 03:41.53 | Kraps | http://www.wowtal.com/#k=Qc_Ic6sBoZ.9dw.priest |
| 03:41.54 | Jamash | kraps reading fail |
| 03:42.08 | Dagmar | WobWork: Also known as the "GIT OUTTA THE FIRE" talent |
| 03:42.31 | WobWork | oh yeah |
| 03:42.40 | WobWork | ah, life grip must be a trainable skill |
| 03:42.56 | Jamash | yep |
| 03:43.35 | Jamash | I'm going to be life gripping my raid leader into the fire |
| 03:43.36 | Kraps | elemental looks unchanged |
| 03:43.52 | WobWork | ahahaah |
| 03:43.53 | WobWork | Nom Nom Nom [NNF] (2 points) - When you Ferocious Bite a target at or below 25% health, you have a 50/100% chance to instantly refresh the duration of your Rip on the target. |
| 03:44.01 | WobWork | Best. Talent. Name. Ever |
| 03:44.08 | Jamash | lawl |
| 03:44.26 | Amarande | Wob, you're like twenty minutes late to observe this |
| 03:44.40 | NightHawkTheSane | it's because he's australian |
| 03:44.59 | Dagmar | Maybe that would be an excuse if he were Canadian |
| 03:45.01 | Shirik | WobWork |
| 03:45.01 | Shirik | link |
| 03:45.15 | NightHawkTheSane | maybe he's canadian-austrialian |
| 03:45.19 | Jamash | Shirik: The entire front page of mmo-champ |
| 03:45.25 | Shirik | oh |
| 03:45.27 | Shirik | so it's not in game |
| 03:45.28 | Shirik | fail |
| 03:45.29 | Jerub | WobWork: yes. |
| 03:45.43 | WobWork | ah, tis cause I rebooted |
| 03:45.56 | Jamash | No, Shirik, Cataclysm didn't come out in the past 30 minutes. |
| 03:45.57 | Kraps | ah hah |
| 03:45.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Sesshu (~Sesshu@ip-197-17.travedsl.de) |
| 03:46.00 | Kraps | The basic idea is you can choose to add some damage to your healing if you are soloing, in PvP, or even raiding encounters which aren't particularly demanding for you to heal. For those situations where you really need to heal, you'll do better with a talent build that focuses on healing. |
| 03:46.02 | Kraps | It's something we're likely to try with all the healing specs, or else decide it's a bad idea. :) |
| 03:48.59 | Kraps | http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#b theirs is better, like always |
| 03:50.02 | Amarande | Kraps: yeah, the add damage to your healing thing seems like it will help a lot for leveling |
| 03:50.12 | Amarande | No need for dual spec unless you're really raiding in two roles |
| 03:50.27 | Amarande | right now, leveling in healing spec outside of instances is painful |
| 03:50.52 | Amarande | other than the fact that you are nearly immortal as some healing specs, particularly resto shaman |
| 03:50.55 | WobWork | [NNF]? |
| 03:50.59 | Jamash | Name Not Final |
| 03:51.00 | Amarande | "Name Not Final" |
| 03:51.02 | WobWork | aww |
| 03:51.11 | WobWork | you mean it might -not- be Nomnomnom? |
| 03:51.15 | WobWork | =( |
| 03:51.16 | Amarande | basically, from what I understand it |
| 03:51.29 | Amarande | if you die soloing as a resto shaman, you either utterly fail, were utterly not paying attention, or are in WAY over your head. |
| 03:51.37 | WobWork | truth |
| 03:51.49 | WobWork | healtanking is ridiculously viable |
| 03:52.01 | Amarande | however, YOU may die soloing as a resto shaman |
| 03:52.02 | NightHawkTheSane | and when it's not, healing your earth ele is. :P |
| 03:52.05 | Amarande | in the time it takes to actually kill stuff :) |
| 03:52.10 | Kraps | Amarande: i can do dailies! |
| 03:52.38 | Amarande | Resto Shaman, level 40: "cool, I can take on almost anything without dying" |
| 03:53.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Cloudwolf_ (~chatzilla@c-71-227-249-44.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 03:53.21 | Dagmar | Warlock, level 40: "LOL SHAMEN" |
| 03:53.41 | Amarande | Resto Shaman, level 84: *thud*. Your white-haired, wrinkled body lays deceased on the keyboard. Grandchildren are looking at you and their mom, "Mommy, do you think Grandpa will finish leveling that shaman ever?" |
| 03:54.40 | Kraps | tree of life: 45 sec on a 5 min cd :p |
| 03:54.53 | Kraps | let the QQ recommence |
| 03:55.40 | Kraps | plus reduced movement speed |
| 03:55.46 | WobWork | hehe |
| 03:55.56 | Jamash | reduced movement speed is fail |
| 03:56.04 | Jamash | hopefully they'll get rid of it (again) |
| 03:56.35 | Amarande | Kraps, is tree of life even worth taking then? |
| 03:56.36 | WobWork | hm druids get Fury of a Stormrage for their resto dps |
| 03:57.15 | Kraps | increase healing and armor |
| 03:57.23 | WobWork | imp tree of life is... weird |
| 03:57.39 | WobWork | it improves Wrath damage =P |
| 03:57.40 | Jerub | to put things in perspective. |
| 03:57.54 | Jerub | back when 3.3 hit and i was desperately trying to get my tree geared for toc5. |
| 03:58.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Diao (vince@adsl-99-50-125-81.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:58.10 | Jerub | i would've LOVED tree of life on argent fucking confessor goddamn palestress |
| 03:58.33 | Kraps | but? |
| 03:58.40 | WobWork | now of course, you say lolwildgrowth |
| 03:58.56 | Jerub | WobWork: yeah, because i'm massively overgeared for the instance. |
| 04:00.08 | Amarande | Jerub: oh god, paletress |
| 04:00.11 | Amarande | let's just say |
| 04:00.18 | Amarande | I don't know anyone who doesn't cheer when they see Eadric appear |
| 04:00.28 | Amarande | unless they're specifically looking for one of the pieces of loot that only Paletress drops, anyway |
| 04:00.29 | NightHawkTheSane | i like paletress. |
| 04:00.43 | Amarande | sadly, it seems that most of the good loot only drops from Paletress, while Eadric's loot is kinda spare |
| 04:00.55 | NightHawkTheSane | its a fight that, even if you overgear it, you still have to pay some attention |
| 04:01.00 | Xyphoid | i just told my buddy about the hints of paid extra character slots |
| 04:01.10 | Amarande | it's also a fight where if you undergear it you are in for a world of pain |
| 04:01.17 | Xyphoid | he deleted a level 50 char last week to level something else |
| 04:01.29 | Amarande | Xyphoid: which game? |
| 04:01.32 | Xyphoid | wow |
| 04:01.36 | NightHawkTheSane | pfft. the fight's no harder than the first boss if you dont suck |
| 04:01.54 | Xyphoid | eadric is hilarious as a resto shaman |
| 04:02.06 | Xyphoid | face away, drop grounding totem on cooldown, take a nap |
| 04:03.10 | Jerub | i've given up with the hammer catching on eadric |
| 04:03.22 | Jerub | no dps ever has cleansed the debuff in time |
| 04:03.41 | Dagmar | We can cleanse that? |
| 04:03.42 | Xyphoid | get a shaman, grounding totem catches it for you |
| 04:04.01 | Jerub | Dagmar: paladins can remove the stun |
| 04:04.07 | Xyphoid | the way the hammer works is target gets stunned with a magic debuff, tehn he throws the hammer |
| 04:04.19 | Xyphoid | if the debuff has been dispelled, you catch it |
| 04:04.32 | Dagmar | Ah... |
| 04:04.48 | Dagmar | I've caught it a few times just from being in TBW |
| 04:04.59 | Jerub | then you hit '1' to throw it back |
| 04:05.06 | Dagmar | Well, yeah that part I know |
| 04:05.23 | Dagmar | I try to save TBW for the last bit of the fight, just in case |
| 04:05.58 | Xyphoid | a bunch of times i've had dps catch it and complain about their bars being messed up |
| 04:06.01 | Amarande | Xyphoid: how about if the debuff doesn't happen at all (e.g., DK with icebound fortitude active)? |
| 04:06.16 | Xyphoid | good question, i assume AMS would stop it too |
| 04:06.24 | Amarande | although I've noticed that icebound fortitude doesn't seem to be foolproof :| |
| 04:06.25 | Xyphoid | hard to catch it though since he has no cast time |
| 04:06.28 | Jerub | Amarande: that's why the achievement is called The Faceroller |
| 04:06.36 | Amarande | that first boss in PoS always seems to stun me even when it is active |
| 04:07.09 | Xyphoid | i did remember to IBF out of ymiron's stun the other day finally |
| 04:07.25 | Dagmar | Xyphoid: More likely they don't have the proper (inactive usually) bar defined and they catch the hammer and all their buttons MAGICALLY DISAPPEAR |
| 04:07.51 | Amarande | Dagmar: does bartender handle it properly by default? |
| 04:07.59 | Dagmar | Dunno. |
| 04:08.03 | Amarande | I figure a large % of instance running folks use bartender |
| 04:08.07 | Dagmar | I haven't used default buttons in ages |
| 04:08.15 | Jamash | the default ui has buttons? |
| 04:08.24 | Dagmar | The one thing I think BT does "better" than Macaroon is that there's a GODDAMN EXIT VEHICLE BUTTON |
| 04:08.49 | Jamash | I thought it just had a link to wowinterface.com |
| 04:09.02 | Dagmar | Every bleeding time I actually need to hop off something quickly, I'm using Macaroon and I keep forgetting to make a button for that |
| 04:09.15 | Jerub | hah |
| 04:09.18 | Jerub | i just use default bars |
| 04:09.28 | Dagmar | I've gotten pretty good at typing /script VehicleExit(); in a hurry |
| 04:10.14 | Dagmar | Amarande: In *theory* if they have done the jousting they should damn well have buttons |
| 04:10.34 | Dagmar | ...but I don't know if that counts as a possession bar o rwhat |
| 04:10.36 | Jamash | I'd use the default bars if blizzard allowed me to set up 8 of them |
| 04:11.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (~xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 04:11.38 | Xyphoid | i'd love to see stats on how many people actually use addons |
| 04:11.49 | Jamash | yeah |
| 04:11.59 | Dagmar | With Macaroon, I've figured out how to do weird stuff, so that like, on the rare occasion something evil replaces my pet, the pet control buttons are no longer TEENY TINY little things |
| 04:12.21 | Dagmar | I don't really need to see the damn icons on my pet bar to know what's up with them |
| 04:12.32 | Dagmar | ...and maybe someday I'll get a mechanism to readd the /petpassive button |
| 04:13.22 | Jerub | i'm terrible sometimes, i'll use /cast <spellname> for a little used spell |
| 04:13.39 | Jamash | lawl |
| 04:13.40 | Kraps | i use dominoes |
| 04:14.05 | Jerub | Jamash: 8 bars sounds like you're being excessive. i often look at my bars and remove stuff |
| 04:14.12 | Jerub | i have 2-3 bars visible on most toons |
| 04:14.22 | Jamash | Jerub: I would have more but there's no room on the screen |
| 04:14.41 | Xyphoid | look i need a keybind for my buy 20 parchment macro |
| 04:14.54 | Thunder_Child | i have 4 bars + autobars |
| 04:14.57 | Dagmar | It beats a macro that does /focus target; /target Cayda; /cast Misdirection; /cast Serpent Sting |
| 04:15.11 | Dagmar | ...when your paladin tank (Cayda) is now on his mage (Caydala) |
| 04:15.19 | Jamash | lololol |
| 04:15.35 | Dagmar | He had *just* enough time to type "Wha..." |
| 04:16.47 | Jamash | I focus the tank and then use a misdirect onto focus macro |
| 04:18.13 | Dagmar | I left out the /target focus bit but you get the idea |
| 04:18.38 | Jerub | does anyone know a good AH addon to handle listing and relisting glyphs? |
| 04:18.45 | Xyphoid | quick auctions |
| 04:18.50 | Jerub | my inscriptionationist needs one |
| 04:18.53 | Dagmar | Auctioneer does batch auctions like that great |
| 04:18.53 | Xyphoid | it's pretty much for that |
| 04:19.32 | Xyphoid | qa3 is ideal if you want to bulk cancel and relist |
| 04:19.33 | Dagmar | It's a big rinse and repeat operation on my enchanter now. I hit the mailbox, loot all mail, then check if any piles are low and need making more of, then I just go batch post the lot |
| 04:19.41 | Dagmar | Bulk cancelling is for bishes |
| 04:20.03 | Jerub | I couldnt figure out auctioneer |
| 04:20.14 | Jerub | it just gives weird error messages i can't decipher when i hit the batch button |
| 04:20.33 | Jerub | how do you "loot all mail" ? i just shift rightclick lots |
| 04:20.35 | Dagmar | There's just a lil' checkbox to enable batch posting of an item when you're looking at the valuator-thingit tab |
| 04:20.41 | NightHawkTheSane | heh, "It should be illegal to put a lemon slice (rather than lime) in a vodka and soda." |
| 04:20.46 | Xyphoid | i wrote my own mod to filter the default profession list by altaholic quantity - so it only lists things i have less than X of across all chars |
| 04:20.54 | Dagmar | Jerub: Postal, BetterMail, EasyMail... there's a few mail addons that will empty yer first 50 mails |
| 04:20.58 | Xyphoid | there are heaps of mail mods that add an 'open all' button |
| 04:21.11 | Jerub | okay, so something other than auctioneer |
| 04:21.28 | Dagmar | Well, yeah, Auctioneer for some reason has very little to do with the mailbpox |
| 04:21.40 | Dagmar | It has shit for talent bank support too |
| 04:21.45 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@c-98-251-190-189.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 04:22.10 | Xyphoid | quick auctions 3 is what you want |
| 04:22.23 | Dagmar | Anyway, once you mark something for batch posting, it's marked until you uncheck it. At that point if you click the batch post button, it just posts all that stuff in the quantity and pile sizes you set them to |
| 04:25.44 | Amarande | say |
| 04:25.54 | Amarande | which UI option controls the auto-acceptance of quests on fresh characters? |
| 04:26.02 | Amarande | I don't seem to see a checkbox for it, unless I've missed something |
| 04:26.09 | Dagmar | Something from some addon somewhere I suspect |
| 04:26.28 | Dagmar | The whole "quest dialog disappearing when you accept a quest" thing would not work well |
| 04:26.45 | Iriel | Amarande: it's part of wow |
| 04:26.52 | Dagmar | Is it now? |
| 04:26.55 | Iriel | Amarande: I think the idea was to keep it 'simple' for newbiew |
| 04:26.57 | Iriel | +s |
| 04:27.01 | Jerub | but no one actually reads quest text |
| 04:27.03 | Iriel | It stops pretty fast |
| 04:31.18 | *** join/#wowuidev n3mesis125 (~Shane@CPE00222d1857dd-CM00222d1857d9.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 04:31.35 | n3mesis125 | hey guys, is there a way an addon can listen to a chat channel? ie: guild chat? |
| 04:31.48 | Tentacled | yes. |
| 04:32.18 | Amarande | alliance observation of the day ... draenei women are teh hawt |
| 04:32.25 | Dagmar | n3mesis125: Try typing "?" followed by an item link into guild chat |
| 04:32.41 | n3mesis125 | ok' |
| 04:32.47 | Dagmar | n3mesis125: Anyone running Auctioneer is likely to have their client respond with information about that item |
| 04:33.13 | Kraps | Amarande: old |
| 04:33.16 | Amarande | in fact, draenei may have the most attractive women of any race |
| 04:33.26 | Jerub | mmmtails |
| 04:33.30 | Kraps | what are you, a hordie? |
| 04:33.31 | Jerub | Amarande: what about humans or belfs? |
| 04:33.34 | n3mesis125 | reason i was asking is i wanted to program an addon for my guild that listened to guild chat and could do things on the client end based on me matching key things in the channel |
| 04:33.45 | Jerub | humans look the best naked. |
| 04:33.46 | Amarande | Jerub: belves are kinda slight |
| 04:33.49 | Amarande | humans, maybe |
| 04:33.58 | Jerub | i hit my 'naked' armour set whenever i'm in H CoS |
| 04:33.59 | Dagmar | belves look a bit like escapees from a traile park |
| 04:34.02 | Kraps | Jerub: belfs have bad posture |
| 04:34.09 | Dagmar | er trailer park |
| 04:34.10 | Jerub | Kraps: hah, they do too ;) |
| 04:37.20 | Amarande | like I said ... belves are too slight |
| 04:37.23 | Amarande | draenei seem much more solid |
| 04:38.02 | Jerub | notes in Amarande's file: "Prefers solid women" |
| 04:38.18 | n3mesis125 | interesting, the ? thing made someone tell me |
| 04:38.24 | durcyn | wait until you see the elekk women, Amarande. |
| 04:38.27 | Kraps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKx0aek1T0w |
| 04:38.52 | n3mesis125 | is there more info somewhere i can get on how to react to chats? i seen chat_msg_addon but i thought that was specific to the addon |
| 04:38.53 | Amarande | hmm, did they already implement the 'all mobs in starting area are peaceful' thing? |
| 04:39.15 | Kraps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zWuGyRwlN4&feature=digest |
| 04:39.24 | Amarande | I remember last time I started a draenei some of these owlbeasts were hostile |
| 04:39.27 | Dagmar | Amazing... this entire page pretty much represents why I like dwarves http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ElvesVsDwarves |
| 04:40.01 | Iriel | http://www.cheeseplant.org/~daniel/images/SMALLRCN700.jpg |
| 04:40.06 | Iriel | Shirik: another pic. |
| 04:40.15 | Dagmar | OOo! Coons! |
| 04:40.32 | Iriel | Lil'uns, 2 of the 4 |
| 04:40.37 | Dagmar | Those look young enough to still be approachable |
| 04:40.49 | n3mesis125 | im guessing its chat_msg_channel der |
| 04:41.21 | Dagmar | Amarande: When I started a nelf druid last month it was boring as piss all the way to 10 |
| 04:41.45 | Dagmar | Amarande: ...so I think they've probably done it everywhere since I barely even broke step the entire last five levels |
| 04:41.46 | NightHawkTheSane | ok folks, let's play "link me a good personal website so i can steal design elements, because i'm a terrible designer!" :D |
| 04:42.14 | Jerub | Dagmar: our web filtering policy stops us from accessing tvtropes |
| 04:42.26 | Dagmar | Jeurb: Probably for the best. That site is a terrible time-waster |
| 04:43.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Cairenn (~Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 04:43.59 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 04:45.00 | Jerub | Dagmar: i put the rule in myself. :P |
| 04:45.16 | Dagmar | heheh |
| 04:45.53 | Dagmar | Damn, now that Geocities is actually GONE I can't find a page to link to Night |
| 04:47.14 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: :P |
| 04:47.57 | NightHawkTheSane | i've been blocked on this for a couple months because i'm so bad at actually coming up with a good design. frankly, even shitty geocities sites might help ;) |
| 04:48.32 | Dagmar | Heck, here then... |
| 04:48.43 | Dagmar | http://www.pawsforconcern.org/ |
| 04:48.50 | Shirik | pets Cairenn |
| 04:49.00 | Dagmar | Just a really speedy hack job |
| 04:49.01 | Cairenn | purrs |
| 04:56.43 | Shirik | so I'm eating wheat thins |
| 04:56.45 | Shirik | and reading the box |
| 04:56.50 | Shirik | and I find the nutrition facts |
| 04:56.55 | Shirik | down at the bottom, under the ingredients |
| 04:56.57 | Shirik | it says in bold |
| 04:57.01 | Shirik | "Contains: Wheat" |
| 04:57.07 | Shirik | like seriously, wtf |
| 04:58.27 | Cairenn | Gluten allergies |
| 04:58.38 | Shirik | so what |
| 04:58.43 | Shirik | they're called WHEAT thins |
| 04:58.53 | Shirik | if they were called Soy Thins I would expect it to have soy |
| 04:58.53 | Dagmar | WHen was the last time you looked at a pack of fucking peanuts, man? |
| 04:58.57 | Cairenn | warning: hot coffee may be hot |
| 04:59.14 | Dagmar | They _actually_ have to put the warning about it may possibly have been made near a factory that once contained a peanut |
| 04:59.19 | Cairenn | if they don't put it, they can get sued |
| 04:59.30 | Shirik | so stupid |
| 04:59.34 | Cairenn | agreed |
| 04:59.35 | NightHawkTheSane | welcome to society. |
| 04:59.59 | Jerub | okay, you say all this, but there's a reason those labels are mandatory without "but it should be obvious" legislated exceptions. |
| 05:00.05 | Dagmar | ...because DESPITE the fact that the bag says peanut, the mascot is a dancing peanut, and they're roasted peanuts alone, people MIGHT miss the fact that there's peanuts in there, and then puff up and die |
| 05:00.31 | Jerub | there's no way to term a caluse "you can omit these warnings if it's fucking obvious" in a way that would make sense. |
| 05:01.59 | Shirik | I say just let survival of the fittest run its course |
| 05:02.12 | Cairenn | yeah, well |
| 05:05.14 | Shirik | woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooahh for the longest time |
| 05:06.05 | n3mesis125 | quick question gurus :) is there a way to dump data to a txt file similar to the /combatlog blizzard has built in. I know you can store saved variables, but is there way to store your own file and array format? |
| 05:06.33 | Arrowmaster | damn you guys, now i wish i had some honey roasted peanuts |
| 05:06.44 | Arrowmaster | n3mesis125: no |
| 05:06.46 | NightHawkTheSane | Arrowmaster: srsly. |
| 05:07.52 | n3mesis125 | so is there a way to store variables in a way you want Arrowmaster? or is stored variables always use the same format? |
| 05:08.07 | Arrowmaster | n3mesis125: no |
| 05:08.22 | n3mesis125 | is there any programs to read lua arrays? |
| 05:08.24 | n3mesis125 | are* |
| 05:08.43 | n3mesis125 | i'd like to make a Visual studio app that can read a lua file |
| 05:09.05 | NightHawkTheSane | lua can read lua arrays :P |
| 05:09.10 | Arrowmaster | find some lua bindings and use lua |
| 05:09.15 | Amarande | okay, now I can't remember anymore |
| 05:09.19 | Amarande | what was Mr. Chilly awarded for? |
| 05:09.26 | Amarande | every time I create a new character I get one |
| 05:09.27 | NightHawkTheSane | bnet merging |
| 05:10.01 | NightHawkTheSane | n3mesis125: alternately, just write a parser, it probably can't be that hard. |
| 05:10.11 | Arrowmaster | if i create a new char i think there will be about a dozen pets in my mailbox |
| 05:10.49 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah. it's almost obnoxious. |
| 05:11.49 | Arrowmaster | with useless ones like the mountain dew bot |
| 05:13.32 | Dashkal | I hope that at some point they either make it one mail or just create new chars with the pets. |
| 05:16.43 | n3mesis125 | so saved variables only happen when you login, logout, reload ui, or does it happen when certain things trigger, ie: friendlist_update |
| 05:19.38 | NightHawkTheSane | no, thats it. |
| 05:25.42 | Guest54972 | hey all. Anyone know a way to mass download/export all of your photos from Photobucket? |
| 05:26.20 | Kraps | http://na.aiononline.com/evolve/ |
| 05:26.30 | Kraps | i think i want this game |
| 05:28.35 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR (~DWSR@unaffiliated/dwsr) |
| 05:32.05 | Iriel | Kraps: which? Aion? |
| 05:32.11 | Kraps | yeah |
| 05:32.25 | Iriel | I haven't played it in a bit, but it's alright.. I think Shirik plays |
| 05:32.50 | daev` | Don't do it. |
| 05:33.24 | daev` | The game gets boring quick since they haven't added any content. |
| 05:33.51 | Kraps | they just had a huge patch |
| 05:34.01 | daev` | Balance changes and drop increases |
| 05:34.42 | daev` | I played it up until a few months ago, and thats what finally did me in. |
| 05:37.31 | Kraps | Shirik |
| 05:42.03 | Thunder_Child | no |
| 05:45.38 | Kraps | Thunder_Child: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ |
| 05:46.39 | Thunder_Child | Kraps: you know whats so cool about my client, i can preview url's |
| 05:47.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Siku (~Shana@gw2.internet-haut-richelieu.com) |
| 05:47.49 | Kraps | ima go to sleep now |
| 05:48.26 | haste | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:48.29 | haste | :V |
| 05:49.25 | Kraps | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:49.29 | Thunder_Child | haste: you just got cockblocked from being rickrolled |
| 05:49.38 | Thunder_Child | that amuses me greatly |
| 05:51.15 | haste | I'd still have flashblock before that as well |
| 05:52.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Siku (~Shana@gw2.internet-haut-richelieu.com) |
| 05:52.35 | *** join/#wowuidev |Jelly| (~chatzilla@adsl-99-178-187-163.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 05:53.11 | Thunder_Child | still |
| 06:02.27 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 06:05.47 | Trela | Aion will be more worth it in patch 2.0. However, I believe TERA will trump it. |
| 06:06.05 | *** join/#wowuidev turbine (~moose01@cpe-98-14-2-45.nyc.res.rr.com) |
| 06:06.09 | Jerub | and then everythign has to compete with cata's release |
| 06:06.21 | Jerub | i'm so glad i didn't play wow before wotlk |
| 06:07.14 | turbine | wow vanilla was good |
| 06:07.23 | Dagmar | Whoa. Google: "TREES! HAVE SOME!" |
| 06:07.39 | Trela | 50-60 was always painful to level and still is! |
| 06:07.42 | Dagmar | Their background is white no more |
| 06:07.58 | Dagmar | Trela: EPL/WPL |
| 06:07.59 | turbine | leveling really just sucks |
| 06:08.00 | Jerub | Trela: 50-60 is fine to level. if you know your way around BRD |
| 06:08.20 | turbine | there really is no purpose to leveling, it's unjustified |
| 06:08.22 | Dagmar | I *think*> It's been awhile |
| 06:08.23 | Trela | Dagmar, Jerub: A lot of grind and very spread out quests. |
| 06:08.55 | Dagmar | Trela: It's all in one zone, and not as spread out as all that |
| 06:09.01 | Trela | 50-60 is much better, but still can be the longest portion if you do not have a guide or not experienced with that range. |
| 06:09.28 | Dagmar | Azshara and that area, now THAT is spread out |
| 06:09.38 | *** part/#wowuidev turbine (~moose01@cpe-98-14-2-45.nyc.res.rr.com) |
| 06:10.23 | Dagmar | Anyway, at 57 I bolt for Outlands |
| 06:10.31 | Dagmar | ...so there's that |
| 06:10.57 | Dashkal | 50-58. WPL/EPL. Small stint in winterspring if you don't instance |
| 06:11.19 | Jerub | 30-70 TB, 70+ Dalaran |
| 06:11.23 | Jerub | that's how i've been levelling |
| 06:11.26 | Dagmar | hehe |
| 06:11.38 | Jerub | also, lolquests |
| 06:12.07 | Dashkal | I'd much rather quest. I want what I have to do to change more often that the pvp minigames or the 2-3 instances avaialable in a level bracket |
| 06:12.31 | Dagmar | Rather the *point* of leveling is so youc an learn to play your class, and to have lots of content to mess with |
| 06:12.46 | Dagmar | Sadly, a lot of people just *fail* utterly on the first part |
| 06:13.23 | Dagmar | ...and they're so busy trying to hit the endgame, like it's some kind of mystic carrot, that half the lore things going on they have no connection with at all |
| 06:13.56 | Dagmar | If you're ALliance, and you don't think Varian Wrynn is a *dick* by the time you hit 80, you weren't paying attention |
| 06:15.33 | Jerub | if only the important lore points weren't boring |
| 06:15.47 | Jerub | Like saurfang in icc |
| 06:15.57 | Dagmar | Well, if they didn't come at people literally out of the blue when they happen, people wouldn't be hopping up and down to get the NPCs to hurry up |
| 06:16.01 | Jerub | i'm srsly considering tranferring to alliance so i don't have to hear his prattle. |
| 06:16.11 | Dagmar | Jerub: That won't help |
| 06:16.37 | Dagmar | I'm Alliance and ICC NPCs are really damn chatty for us, too |
| 06:16.56 | Jerub | Dagmar: but at least their chattyness is slightly more coherant. |
| 06:17.07 | Jerub | "omg i promised my boy would be safe so now i'm going to kill him rar" |
| 06:17.08 | Dagmar | That doesn't make it any less irksome |
| 06:17.12 | Jerub | stupid stupid man |
| 06:17.26 | Dagmar | We're usually 3-4 trash pulls in before they finally STFU |
| 06:17.47 | Jerub | Dagmar: wait, do you know the dialog i'm talking about? |
| 06:17.58 | Dagmar | Not for Horde side |
| 06:18.18 | NightHawkTheSane | he's refering to the pre-deathbringer saurfang speech |
| 06:18.26 | Dagmar | Generally if the NPCs could hear me mouthing off, half the zone would have aggro'd on me |
| 06:18.30 | Jerub | http://www.wowwiki.com/Deathbringer_Saurfang#Quotes |
| 06:18.32 | NightHawkTheSane | its ~1.5m of High Overlord Saurfang & Deathbringer Saurfang talking |
| 06:18.37 | Jerub | read the 'intro as horde' and try to make sense of it. |
| 06:18.56 | NightHawkTheSane | Jerub: it makes sense to me *shrug* |
| 06:19.20 | Jerub | NightHawkTheSane: how can he forfill that promise he'd already broken? |
| 06:19.23 | Jerub | it doesn't make logical sense. |
| 06:19.40 | Jerub | and why is he prattling on about heart of draenor, what's the context? |
| 06:20.22 | Dagmar | It's possible his mind has snapped |
| 06:20.24 | NightHawkTheSane | er, you realize what Draenor is, yes? |
| 06:20.30 | Dagmar | ...or he's trying to rewrite history |
| 06:20.53 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: Being that I played all the WC games and paid attention (although I could care less about the books) I knew |
| 06:21.05 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: i meant Jerub |
| 06:21.15 | Dagmar | I might have been the only person in my guild to understand what the point of that fight in the swamps with the mage making the portal was all about |
| 06:21.32 | Jerub | it's where the dark portal is |
| 06:21.36 | Dagmar | I had to explain Thrall's tantrum episode |
| 06:21.42 | NightHawkTheSane | Saurfang is basically sayingi that Deathbringer Saurfang is no longer his son, he's here to put him out of his misery, and take his body home to be buried. |
| 06:21.45 | Dagmar | Jerub: ONE END of it |
| 06:21.54 | Dagmar | ...but wrong portal. |
| 06:21.55 | *** join/#wowuidev zenzio (~zenzio__@85.19.77.194) |
| 06:21.58 | Dagmar | It's where the Orcs came from |
| 06:22.04 | Dagmar | They are not native to Azeroth |
| 06:22.05 | NightHawkTheSane | Jerub: Outland is whats left of Draenor, it's where the orcs came from. |
| 06:22.19 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: Okay now _that_ I didn't know |
| 06:22.44 | zenzio | applauds NightHawkTheSane for not pluralising Outland |
| 06:22.54 | NightHawkTheSane | *nod* hence the reference to Garadar :) |
| 06:23.01 | NightHawkTheSane | zenzio: :) |
| 06:24.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (~Vilkku@86-60-145-155-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi) |
| 06:24.54 | zenzio | I'm currently questing through Outland on my first horde (well, first where I read the quest texts), and I'm really enjoying the zones more than I do the Northrend ones; even though I appreciate Northrend |
| 06:25.35 | Torhal | Whoah |
| 06:25.44 | Torhal | I thought everyone knew Outland == Draenor's remains |
| 06:25.55 | Dagmar | No that they dont' make real obvious |
| 06:26.02 | Torhal | o.O |
| 06:26.05 | Torhal | Okay |
| 06:26.07 | Torhal | :D |
| 06:26.15 | Dagmar | Maybe the Horde-side NPCs are more verbose about it |
| 06:26.16 | NightHawkTheSane | well, its not made -terribly- obvious in wow |
| 06:26.27 | Arrowmaster | they are |
| 06:26.28 | Dagmar | On the Alliance side it's generally referred to as "this godforsaken place they left us behind at" |
| 06:26.29 | NightHawkTheSane | but i thought the wc2 expansion made it pretty clear |
| 06:26.34 | zenzio | I do find that the horde quests made it more obvious than the alliance ones |
| 06:28.15 | Torhal | Hrm. I don't play Alliance, is probably why that threw me for a loop. |
| 06:29.06 | Arrowmaster | i thought it was mentioned in the TBC announcement |
| 06:29.26 | zenzio | Arrowmaster: don't forget, people often don't pay too much attention to detail :) |
| 06:30.16 | Arrowmaster | i also forgot that the majority of wow players that currently have a subscription in the US or EU started playing after wrath..... |
| 06:30.17 | Jerub | NightHawkTheSane: i guess my point is that it's poorly written dialog. |
| 06:30.45 | Jerub | NightHawkTheSane: it makes sense only if a) you understand the lore b) understand what the writer was getting at and c) don't think the writer was on crack for writing it that way |
| 06:30.52 | NightHawkTheSane | Jerub: for a player with zero context, that's true. But there's enough lore available along the way there to make it perfectly understandable |
| 06:31.29 | NightHawkTheSane | I have absolutely zero issue with them writing in-character dialogue that's heavily reliant upon lore knowledge to really understand. |
| 06:32.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@pool014.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 06:32.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 06:32.12 | NightHawkTheSane | they mean to craft a story, you can't jump in at the end and expect it to make perfect sense |
| 06:32.15 | Jerub | NightHawkTheSane: but it's poor sentence structure :/ |
| 06:32.30 | Jerub | it's like they wrote it like that to punish people for clicking accept :/ |
| 06:32.47 | NightHawkTheSane | The speech? It's not, really. |
| 06:32.48 | zenzio | I would have to disagree |
| 06:33.10 | Jerub | not to mention the cliche darth vader dialog from deathbringer himself. |
| 06:33.13 | zenzio | they chose a way where they can present bits of lore or background elements without giving you the wall of text |
| 06:33.23 | Dagmar | Aside from the obvious retort, how much of say, Lost, makes a lick of sense if you jump into the middle of season 3? |
| 06:33.43 | NightHawkTheSane | Jerub: yea, i'll grant the vader-esque bit is a bit silly, but meh, it makes sense. |
| 06:34.01 | Dagmar | Jerub: *sigh* That's not Star Wars, it's a classic staple of greek drama |
| 06:34.08 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: i dont really think Lost is a valid argument in any discussion about story and context ;) |
| 06:34.19 | Jerub | zenzio: pack as much lore into as few sentences as possible as to make the dialog stilted and incomprehensible :/ |
| 06:34.27 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: Yeah but still, IF you've been watching it, at least half of it makes some sense |
| 06:34.30 | zenzio | I finished Nagrand the other day, and so far (before Northrend) I'm left thinking... "that guy will be warchief? o_O" |
| 06:34.43 | Dagmar | If you haven't, it might as well be a ... crap... can't remember his name |
| 06:34.53 | WobWork | http://wikipediagame.org/ |
| 06:35.08 | Dagmar | David Cronenburg! That's his name |
| 06:35.17 | Dagmar | It might as well be a Cronenburg flick at that point |
| 06:35.26 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: *nod* epic storylines are epic :P |
| 06:35.39 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (~airtonix@unaffiliated/airtonix) |
| 06:35.53 | NightHawkTheSane | zenzio: which is really the reaction you should probably be having. :P |
| 06:35.55 | Dagmar | (Although now we see that Cronenberg's influence wasn't the parts of his movies that made sense) |
| 06:36.18 | NightHawkTheSane | (if you did it before wrath, you'd have said "seriously, we gave this guy some power? we're kinda fucked, aren't we?") |
| 06:36.21 | Dagmar | (If you saw the last movie he made, all by himself, you'd understand) |
| 06:38.06 | zenzio | for those of you who didn't know that Outland used to be Draenor, did you ever wonder about the name "draenei"? (I didn't give it any thought at first) |
| 06:38.37 | Dagmar | We just figured it was the home planet of the space goats |
| 06:38.47 | Dagmar | If there had been more goats in Outlands, maybe then we'd have noticed |
| 06:39.02 | Dagmar | You may have noticed they tend to crash lots of places |
| 06:39.20 | Dagmar | (including Sholazar Basin) |
| 06:39.52 | zenzio | you did seem to encounter "broken" more often than "draenei" in Outland |
| 06:39.55 | Dagmar | Yep. |
| 06:40.02 | Dagmar | There's broken all OVER the place |
| 06:40.33 | NightHawkTheSane | course, broken ARE draenei |
| 06:40.50 | Dagmar | Shattrath is pretty much the only place you see Dranei in any great number |
| 06:41.29 | zenzio | NightHawkTheSane: they are, but the quests don't usually say that |
| 06:42.09 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah |
| 06:42.09 | Dagmar | Why the hell are they "broken" anyway |
| 06:42.35 | NightHawkTheSane | they're corrupted by demonic influence, similar to the way the orcs were |
| 06:42.36 | Dagmar | I got the impression there wasn't anything wrong with them some antidepressants and a pep talk woudln't solve |
| 06:42.50 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: Really? They're awfully mellow about that |
| 06:42.56 | NightHawkTheSane | it just had a more.. significant effect on them |
| 06:43.50 | NightHawkTheSane | well, i think by the time the wow story rolls along, they're free from the influence, but remain changed from dranei |
| 06:44.03 | zenzio | what sort of puzzles me are the lost ones in Blasted Lands/Swamp of Sorrows |
| 06:44.09 | NightHawkTheSane | into "broken", a la "broken by the burning legion" |
| 06:44.13 | Dagmar | Mainly they seem to come in two types... the priesty-kind you find in Outlands, and the ones here and there in Azeroth who are having trouble demonstrating they have it more together than say, the average passel of Murlocs |
| 06:44.15 | zenzio | I guess they made it across the portal, but not before being affected |
| 06:44.22 | NightHawkTheSane | zenzio: basically, yeah |
| 06:44.40 | Dagmar | zenzio: Yeah those guys in particular... not very advanced |
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| 06:45.05 | Dagmar | I just figured it was too much inbreeding or something in the water |
| 06:45.09 | NightHawkTheSane | they're quite literally lost ones, i gather. separated from everyone else on draenor, and few in number.. |
| 06:49.45 | zenzio | "Who cares about a ritnawhatchumacallit. If i get an Iphone I'll get laid! :D" --> "getting screwed != getting laid" |
| 06:50.56 | Torhal | From the Cata screenshots, it appears that The Blasted Lands are going to go back to more of the Black Morass look |
| 06:51.07 | Torhal | Which is, after all, what they used to be. |
| 06:51.13 | Dashkal | At least the tainted scar |
| 06:51.55 | zenzio | Kazzak's been gone from Blasted Lands for a long time now, maybe his influence kept it devastated (long shot speculation) |
| 06:51.58 | Amarande | eh, I'm not sure whether I like that or not, heh. |
| 06:52.16 | Amarande | let's see ... black morass look ... yay. sounds like it'd just look like Swamp of Sorrows South |
| 06:52.18 | Dashkal | I'm suspecting the worgen druid types helped things along. |
| 06:52.27 | Amarande | otoh, the present blasted lands look isn't too appealing to me either |
| 06:52.35 | Dashkal | Helped restore the terrain to its natural state |
| 06:52.41 | Amarande | probably because when you've played horde as much as I have, red rocks start to become monotonous |
| 06:52.57 | Amarande | and usually when you pass through blasted lands you're on your way through the dark portal |
| 06:53.00 | Amarande | YAY MORE RED ROCKS |
| 06:53.01 | Amarande | :P |
| 06:53.14 | zenzio | Amarande: I nearly stopped playing after my first two days in WoW, because I rolled an orc, and Durotar kept burning my eyes |
| 06:53.28 | Amarande | one thing WoW has way too much of, 'specially if you play horde ... it's RED ROCKS |
| 06:54.30 | Amarande | durotar ... red rocks. the barrens ... somewhat less red rocks. thousand needles ... brown and reddish rocks. blasted lands ... red rocks. then you finally get to outland, and it's five MORE levels of stupid red rocks |
| 06:54.40 | Amarande | have I missed any? |
| 06:55.08 | zenzio | Stonetalon |
| 06:55.19 | Amarande | oh yeah. stonetalon's pretty much all red rocks too |
| 06:55.28 | Amarande | basically the entire horde experience 1-40 or so is red rocks. |
| 06:55.39 | Amarande | and you wonder why I tend to drag my feet about going to outland. :) |
| 06:56.00 | Dagmar | New colors! Purple and GREEN rocks! |
| 06:56.02 | zenzio | let's see... Hellfire, Bladge's Edge... that's about it |
| 06:56.17 | Amarande | Yeah, but ... you've finally gotten to have other terrain for a while |
| 06:56.20 | Amarande | then you think ... yay, hellfire |
| 06:56.22 | Amarande | back to red rocks |
| 06:56.23 | Amarande | bah |
| 06:56.36 | Amarande | maybe I'll go to outland sooner as alliance |
| 06:56.48 | Amarande | although that's probably not going to be the case, since I've been following some alliance leveling guides |
| 06:56.50 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI (~KarlKFI@ip70-181-89-32.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 06:57.01 | Amarande | and with the xp nerfs I'll probably get 61 or 62 anyway before I hit outland |
| 06:57.18 | Amarande | since Jame's guides for old world were pretty much all written before all the massive xp nerfs hit |
| 06:57.34 | Amarande | the 2.3 one, yeah, but the 3.0 ones at 60 weren't taken into account |
| 06:57.51 | zenzio | I forgot they also nerfed the XP you need from 60-70 or thereabouts |
| 06:58.10 | Amarande | zenzio: yeah, that's why I tend to go so late |
| 06:58.16 | zenzio | entered Hellfire at 58, and I was halfway to 69 after doing Hellfire, Zangarmarsh, Terokkar and Nagrand |
| 06:58.18 | Amarande | it would have been 60, maybe 61 |
| 06:58.24 | Amarande | following Jame's guides for old world first |
| 06:58.35 | zenzio | still got Blade's Edge, Netherstorm and Shadowmoon left... I'll be well into the 70s before I enter Northrend |
| 06:58.36 | Amarande | but with how much less xp it takes to get to 61 and 62 ... it's hard not to get those levels |
| 06:58.51 | Dagmar | Yeah it's actualyl not like your'e going to reach teh end of the guide and *not* be at 50,60,etc |
| 06:59.02 | Amarande | on the DK, I hit Northrend about maybe 1/3 of the way through 71 |
| 06:59.08 | Jerub | the 70->80 grind is annoying |
| 06:59.16 | Dagmar | ...and by the time you've run one toon to 80, odds are you can handle a mere 1-2 levels over your head |
| 06:59.29 | Amarande | hit 80 around the end of Grizzly Hills, IIRC |
| 06:59.59 | Dagmar | You know the drill, you know how to fight, you know when to cut and run, etc |
| 06:59.59 | Amarande | this without heirlooms |
| 06:59.59 | zenzio | Jerub: grind? |
| 06:59.59 | bryno | isn't looking forward to the heroic grind :( |
| 06:59.59 | Jerub | zenzio: doing quests/instances/getting experience |
| 07:00.01 | Jerub | bryno: what class? |
| 07:00.01 | Amarande | Dagmar: yeah, it's not that I can't handle going to outland/northrend at 58/68 |
| 07:00.07 | Amarande | it's that it's a lot more comfortable at 60+/70+ |
| 07:00.08 | bryno | warrior |
| 07:00.11 | zenzio | your idea of a grind differs from mine |
| 07:00.17 | Amarande | especially on squishies where the aggro radius is more important |
| 07:00.18 | Jerub | bryno: tank until your fingers bleed |
| 07:00.23 | Dagmar | Amarande: I'm completely *fine* with quests being a little hard |
| 07:00.30 | Amarande | especially with entering outland, because zeth'gor is evil even being a little overleveled |
| 07:00.34 | bryno | i am, that's why i'm not looking forward to it lol |
| 07:00.37 | Dagmar | Amarande: If anything, being killed a few times makes it more interesting |
| 07:00.41 | Amarande | aggro hell, and half the mobs come with automatic adds to boot |
| 07:00.52 | Amarande | since the tormentors fight alongside their mounts and the necro guys summon skellies |
| 07:01.06 | Amarande | so it's easy to get like 5-6 mobs on you, especially if you aren't quite 60 yet |
| 07:01.12 | Amarande | then you go sqoosh |
| 07:01.20 | Amarande | then you go sqoosh a couple more times while trying to extricate yourself |
| 07:01.43 | Amarande | the rest of hellfire isn't quite so bad |
| 07:02.48 | Dagmar | I thought every class had some CC skills ('cept warriors) |
| 07:02.50 | Amarande | Dagmar: there's "a little hard" and then there's "having to walk both on eggshells and quickly in order not to get mobbed" |
| 07:02.59 | Amarande | well |
| 07:03.04 | Amarande | when I had my first taste of hellfire hell |
| 07:03.06 | Amarande | it was on a priest |
| 07:03.11 | Dagmar | Amarande: I suppose I'm a little more hardcore about it since EverQuest and wizarding |
| 07:03.15 | Amarande | and priests don't really have much CC other than shackle, which only works on undead |
| 07:03.29 | Amarande | psychic scream? in areas like that? |
| 07:03.30 | Dagmar | Amarande: Someone took away their fear? |
| 07:03.32 | Thunder_Child | there's "a little hard" and then there is Viagra(tm) |
| 07:03.43 | Amarande | Dagmar: yeah, because you want to psychic scream in an area where you're already worried about pulling too many |
| 07:03.52 | Dagmar | I used to glare at priests fear-juggling mobs in Tanaris |
| 07:03.54 | Amarande | and is densely populated enough that the feared mobs will come back with buddies each to boot |
| 07:04.07 | Dagmar | Amarande: You're taking the wrong approach then |
| 07:04.20 | Dagmar | You're supposed to arrange things so you don't have to pull but once |
| 07:04.32 | Dagmar | That guy will run off and bring your next two victims |
| 07:04.39 | NightHawkTheSane | pull once, let everything else pull itself ;) |
| 07:04.42 | Dagmar | yes, I'm that damn lazy in combat |
| 07:04.45 | Amarande | Dagmar: that would work, if it was *one* guy. |
| 07:04.52 | WobWork | Dagmar: I did that in Uldaman last night |
| 07:04.59 | Amarande | the problem is, one wrong step out there and you're going to pull *four or five guys*. |
| 07:05.03 | WobWork | screw chasing the buggers down |
| 07:05.06 | Amarande | then you fear them, and each of them will bring back two more |
| 07:05.08 | Dagmar | Amarande: Even on my 'lock I pull by jumping on the campfire |
| 07:05.11 | Amarande | yeah, 12-15 mobs on a priest ... FAIL |
| 07:05.27 | NightHawkTheSane | you have to be -really- bad to pull 12-15 mobs anywhere |
| 07:05.32 | WobWork | Amarande: Vampiric Touch spam, bubble =) |
| 07:05.32 | Amarande | Night: even zeth'gor? |
| 07:05.36 | NightHawkTheSane | yes |
| 07:05.38 | WobWork | Mind Flay! |
| 07:05.43 | Amarande | remember, half the mobs there = 2 mobs |
| 07:05.51 | Amarande | and the tormentors usually pat |
| 07:06.03 | Amarande | so one wrong step, or take too long on one mob, and you've got +2 adds to deal with |
| 07:06.03 | NightHawkTheSane | if you're not dumb, you can pull through that place without more than ~3 mobs, which any class should be able to handle without too much trouble, unless you're significantly underlevel |
| 07:06.14 | NightHawkTheSane | situational awareness does wonders. |
| 07:06.27 | Amarande | generally, I do pretty well when all I'm dealing with is the mobs I've planned |
| 07:06.32 | NightHawkTheSane | don't stand near pats, ranged pull to safe locations, don't suck. |
| 07:06.37 | Amarande | unexpected adds with squishies have always been a weakness of mine |
| 07:06.51 | WobWork | Amarande: A guilty pleasure, eh? |
| 07:07.12 | NightHawkTheSane | So what I'm hearing is "i'm bad, and can't really adapt when things start going a little south" :P |
| 07:07.22 | Dagmar | Amarande: You need to gear down a bit then (and I don't mean your equipment). Go for lower level mobs and *plan* on them pulling extras |
| 07:07.33 | Dagmar | If you're going to worry about combat XP, that at least maximizes it |
| 07:07.37 | WobWork | Dagmar: don't be silly |
| 07:07.45 | Amarande | Dagmar: hence not going to hellfire at 58 |
| 07:07.46 | Dagmar | WobWork: Yeah I know... "planning" lol |
| 07:07.46 | WobWork | Amarande would have nothing to complain about then |
| 07:07.53 | Dagmar | Oh he |
| 07:08.17 | NightHawkTheSane | all the "multiple"; single mob pulls are pretty pansy to begin with |
| 07:08.23 | NightHawkTheSane | those wolves and skeltons are really weak |
| 07:08.26 | Dagmar | Amarande: Dude I walked through the portal at 57 with two heirlooms and greens and kicked ass until quests lit up |
| 07:08.30 | Thunder_Child | i never once used fear when leveling my priest |
| 07:08.31 | Dagmar | Two hours. |
| 07:08.42 | Amarande | You can walk through the portal at 57? |
| 07:08.47 | Amarande | I thought it wouldn't even let you go through till 58 |
| 07:08.59 | NightHawkTheSane | Thunder_Child: i have, but only when running from mobs that i didn't feel like fighting |
| 07:09.01 | Dagmar | Well, I flew there and stood by it anyway. ;) |
| 07:09.38 | Dagmar | I was also enchanted as much as was possible |
| 07:10.07 | Dagmar | ...and I was also stacking stamina, which probably helped |
| 07:10.52 | Amarande | yeah, on the flip side |
| 07:10.55 | Amarande | my priest was my first character ever |
| 07:11.03 | Amarande | and I was fairly foggy still at that point on such concepts like itemisation |
| 07:11.20 | Dagmar | Yeah, one run-up to 80 and endgame teaches you that |
| 07:12.14 | Amarande | this is my priest now ... http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Turalyon&cn=Amarelya |
| 07:12.56 | Amarande | and there's still some stuff to probably hate about that gearing |
| 07:13.01 | Amarande | the gemming is definitely not optimal |
| 07:13.50 | Amarande | not totally awful, and the stamina will doubtless keep me out of trouble when I'm getting my first few northrend quest pieces, but hardly optimal |
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| 07:24.13 | NightHawkTheSane | does anyone have a handy link to one of those web-color scheme generators, that gives you compliments & such for a selected color? |
| 07:24.45 | NightHawkTheSane | n/m, found one. |
| 07:26.54 | Dagmar | Pick color. Rotate 30 degrees. Repeat. |
| 07:27.54 | NightHawkTheSane | <-- not a designer, only vaguely gets color theory ;) |
| 07:28.12 | Dagmar | Learned it when I tried to fake it on the C=64. |
| 07:31.06 | zenzio | speaking of that |
| 07:31.23 | zenzio | people seem to believe that Apple's "retina" display isn't quite as retina as they claim |
| 07:31.38 | Dagmar | Wired makes it pretty clear. |
| 07:32.04 | zenzio | didn't see their post; only saw Slashdot comment on some guy from DisplayMate explaining it |
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| 07:37.51 | NightHawkTheSane | zenzio: *shrug* marking hype is marketing hype. It was "technically" incorrect to say that the human eye has a resolution of 300ppi |
| 07:42.07 | NightHawkTheSane | (to be sure, i think this is the wired article Dagmar was referring to? http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/06/iphone-4-retina/ ) |
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| 08:08.05 | zenzio | hm, so this time around, 11/77 of my Gmail account's spam messages were WoW scams |
| 08:09.32 | zenzio | "World of Warcraft in order to inform all the players, the system will send this notice to each player is bound mailbox. World of Warcraft is about to open 85, open beta soon. To prevent data errors, please activate the player to the address below. Thank you players with." |
| 08:09.37 | zenzio | sounds totally genuine |
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| 08:16.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (~chatzilla@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 08:16.37 | zenzio | these scam e-mails seem to always target players on the American servers, I've never got one that claimed to link to WoW-Europe |
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| 08:29.45 | Arrowmaster | "Like the iPad’s LCD display, the iPhone 4’s screen features In-Plane Switching technology, in which crystal molecules are oriented so their motion is parallel to the panel rather than perpendicular." |
| 08:30.07 | Arrowmaster | how much is that screen going to cost alone? |
| 08:30.32 | zenzio | the phone actually only costs $10, the screen is the remaining $400 |
| 08:31.09 | Arrowmaster | i also wasnt aware that anybody was actually still trying to advance in the area of LCD displays |
| 08:31.40 | Arrowmaster | considering fucking nothing of not has changed in the last god damn 6 years for computer LCDs it seems |
| 08:31.40 | zenzio | as opposed to (AM)OLED etc.? |
| 08:31.51 | Arrowmaster | s/not/note/ |
| 08:32.07 | Arrowmaster | s/ not / note / |
| 08:34.54 | Arrowmaster | well you can practically count the number of IPS computer monitors currently being sold that arent discontinued on your fingers, nobody wants to make them they just want to make cheaper stuff because its got a larger profit margin |
| 08:42.35 | *** join/#wowuidev DJJeff (~crazyjeff@S0106001e582ff89c.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 08:47.43 | Arrowmaster | i cant believe those comments on that wired article, so many apple defenders |
| 08:48.04 | zenzio | "LEAVE APPLE ALONE!!!" |
| 08:49.21 | Arrowmaster | lets invent a new game, lets combine "Buzzword Bingo" and "Russian Roulette" |
| 08:51.21 | Arrowmaster | everytime a marketer invents a new buzzword or turns and existing term into a buzzword, everybody that feels like they want to shoot them gets to hand the marketer a revolver with 1 bullet in it and the marketer has to put the barrel to their head and pull the trigger |
| 08:51.36 | Arrowmaster | the odds are in our favor that this could end very very well |
| 08:51.37 | zenzio | http://www.apple.com/downloads/dashboard/developer/corporateipsum.html |
| 08:54.29 | Arrowmaster | so using this conversion of 'angular resolution of 50 cycles per degree' to 'dots per inch at a certain distance' |
| 08:54.59 | Arrowmaster | whats the ideal distance to watch a 1080p video at |
| 08:55.14 | Arrowmaster | at different sizes |
| 08:55.18 | Fisker | your sons dog Arrowmaster |
| 08:55.25 | Fisker | do you know where this is headed? |
| 08:55.45 | Arrowmaster | Fisker: you kicked it? |
| 08:57.29 | olafski | wasn't the point of lorem ipsum that it's in a language nobody can read? |
| 08:57.44 | krka | sometimes i get curious as to what fisker said to make you say that. |
| 08:58.07 | zenzio | the corporate ipsum is just awesome because it sounds like something you would actually get from a marketing department |
| 08:58.45 | olafski | krka: :) |
| 09:00.03 | Fisker | olafskimen |
| 09:01.31 | Arrowmaster | olafski: its latin |
| 09:02.56 | olafski | oh really arrowmaster :P |
| 09:02.58 | zenzio | I thought it was only quasi-latin |
| 09:03.10 | Arrowmaster | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorem_ipsum |
| 09:03.11 | olafski | no I think it's actually correct stuff |
| 09:03.13 | Arrowmaster | it started as latin |
| 09:03.31 | olafski | but I don't read a dead language, hence I said "it's a language nobody (sane) can read" |
| 09:03.46 | zenzio | latin isn't dead |
| 09:03.53 | zenzio | they still use it for scientific stuff |
| 09:03.54 | olafski | whatever you say =) |
| 09:04.06 | olafski | I only use greek letters for scientific stuff |
| 09:04.12 | Arrowmaster | scientific and religious |
| 09:04.19 | Arrowmaster | odd combination huh |
| 09:08.34 | olafski | I'm reading bill bryson's book, it seems religious people did a lot of science back in the day |
| 09:08.53 | olafski | and that's all the science and religion I want to know.. such a nice man, fitting everything I need in one book |
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| 09:20.19 | Fisker | damnit zenzio |
| 09:20.20 | Fisker | http://ekstrabladet.dk/112/article1360380.ece |
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| 09:23.16 | Kalroth | im a barbie girl |
| 09:23.20 | Kalroth | in a plastic world |
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| 09:26.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (~Kaso@89.240.5.140) |
| 09:27.05 | Torhal | fires both barrels into Kalroth. |
| 09:27.17 | Torhal | T'was for your own good. |
| 09:28.14 | Kalroth | melts on Torhal |
| 09:28.24 | Torhal | Ugh. |
| 09:34.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (~Wobin@124-171-254-95.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 09:35.14 | Arrowmaster | so i almost though i found some well hidden wikipedia vandalism but apparently its not |
| 09:35.53 | Arrowmaster | on the Aqua (band) page 'The lawsuit was finally dismissed by a judge in 2002, who ruled "The parties are advised to chill".[2]' |
| 09:36.13 | Kalroth | haha |
| 09:36.25 | Arrowmaster | but the cnn page has that exact quote |
| 09:36.54 | Kalroth | yeah, bbc too |
| 09:37.34 | *** join/#wowuidev DJJeff (~crazyjeff@S0106001e582ff89c.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 09:43.19 | Fisker | slaps Arrowmaster around a bit with a large trout |
| 09:43.21 | Fisker | slaps Kalroth around a bit with a large trout |
| 09:43.27 | Fisker | read it Kalroth |
| 09:45.45 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 09:59.00 | zenzio | http://icanhascheezburger.com/2010/06/09/funny-pictures-ur-pushin-it/ |
| 10:02.27 | Wobin | daamn you Arrowmaster |
| 10:02.34 | Wobin | now I have Barbie Girl stuck in my head |
| 10:02.52 | Arrowmaster | it wasnt me it was Kalroth |
| 10:03.09 | Wobin | You were the first one talking when I came in =( |
| 10:03.59 | Arrowmaster | <Kalroth> im a barbie girl |
| 10:03.59 | Arrowmaster | <Kalroth> in a plastic world |
| 10:04.07 | Arrowmaster | his fault |
| 10:05.07 | zenzio | sadly that song is accurate in Hollywood |
| 10:05.43 | Fisker | hey zenzio |
| 10:05.44 | Fisker | read it |
| 10:14.44 | Fisker | slaps zenzio around a bit with a large trout |
| 10:21.18 | Kalroth | Arrowmaster: No, it wasn't my fault |
| 10:21.35 | Kalroth | [11:22] --> Aqua has joined #wowuidev |
| 10:21.47 | *** join/#wowuidev xanax` (~unknown@vno44-1-88-172-189-200.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 10:21.51 | xanax` | hi |
| 10:22.14 | xanax` | Can Wow still use .TGA files for images ? |
| 10:22.32 | jnwhiteh | just that or BLP |
| 10:22.32 | jnwhiteh | yep |
| 10:23.08 | xanax` | hmm.. because I found a BLP to PNG converter but not a PNG to BLP converter :-( |
| 10:23.11 | Fisker | blows up jnwhiteh |
| 10:23.20 | jnwhiteh | you don't need BLPs |
| 10:23.23 | jnwhiteh | so don't use them |
| 10:23.29 | jnwhiteh | BLP -> PNG is to allow you to edit the files. |
| 10:23.34 | xanax` | yes |
| 10:23.37 | jnwhiteh | then you just save them as TGA |
| 10:23.38 | xanax` | that's what I want to do |
| 10:23.48 | xanax` | hmmm. right. |
| 10:23.52 | jnwhiteh | http://wowprogramming.com/utils/blp2png |
| 10:23.53 | jnwhiteh | or |
| 10:23.58 | jnwhiteh | http://wowprogramming.com/utils/artbrowser |
| 10:25.38 | xanax` | thanks |
| 10:26.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Ensey (~Ensey@94.145.133.22) |
| 10:28.15 | Fisker | you never answered me jnwhiteh! |
| 10:28.45 | jnwhiteh | I don't know that I saw a question from you |
| 10:29.22 | Fisker | :( |
| 10:29.51 | Fisker | [23:14:54] <Fisker> you wouldn't happen to know a connector with mic and playback controls where you can put in your own headset? |
| 10:29.52 | Fisker | bam |
| 10:30.24 | Fisker | i.e. like the one on the nexus one, but just with the ability to put in a custom headset |
| 10:30.37 | jnwhiteh | nope |
| 10:31.39 | Fisker | rage |
| 10:32.00 | Fisker | htc should be making those by the truckload |
| 10:39.43 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar_atwork (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 10:40.55 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 10:52.35 | olafski | http://www.dump.com/2010/06/10/oh-please-oh-please-can-i-have-more-food-gif/ |
| 10:55.49 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@c-68-33-146-13.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
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| 11:06.28 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Legorol] by ChanServ |
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| 11:34.10 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar_atwork (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 11:34.35 | sylvanaar_atwork | very cool http://techcrunch.com/2010/06/10/etype-auto-completes-your-writing-everywhere-1000-exclusive-invites/ |
| 11:35.36 | olafski | meh.. if you type at the speed they type at in that clip perhaps:P |
| 11:36.21 | foxlit | "Hey, you typed 'word'. Would you like to arrow-down twice and press enter/space instead of typing 's' to spell 'words'?" |
| 11:37.38 | olafski | yeah that's the one example that surprised me the most too :) |
| 11:38.07 | krka | type "word" then hit ctrl-alt-p to pluralize it! that would be cool |
| 11:38.08 | olafski | "hey you typed 'we'. Here's a list of words, including 'we' so you can be sure that 'we' is actually a word before you start typing the next word" :) |
| 11:38.39 | krka | and ctrl-alt-t to switch tempus for verbs |
| 11:38.57 | foxlit | olafski: I think they use space for "hey, we're done here, the first autocomplete matches" |
| 11:39.16 | foxlit | So they've screwed themselves into having to display what you typed as the first option, if it's a word. |
| 11:40.42 | sylvanaar_atwork | some of you guys such killjoys |
| 11:41.05 | foxlit | mission not accomplished until all joy is exterminated? |
| 11:41.08 | sylvanaar_atwork | do you like anything? |
| 11:41.34 | foxlit | cabbages and kings, sylvanaar. |
| 11:43.04 | sylvanaar_atwork | so you like monarchy? |
| 11:43.18 | olafski | I like quite a few things |
| 11:43.23 | olafski | I just really don't see the advantage of this |
| 11:43.33 | foxlit | No, I quite like the poem. |
| 11:43.34 | olafski | well.. maybe I do but not in the way they're using it in the video |
| 11:43.58 | olafski | I type a lot faster than what they do in that video, I'm pretty sure I can type most words much faster than having to select them from a dropdown box |
| 11:44.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Human (~hello_war@c220-239-127-80.belrs4.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 11:44.19 | Human | Do you play on private servers? |
| 11:44.22 | olafski | no |
| 11:44.30 | Human | Ok. |
| 11:44.41 | Human | I'm going to play on a 5X server. |
| 11:44.47 | olafski | nook |
| 11:44.50 | olafski | ehh. ok |
| 11:44.51 | olafski | bye :) |
| 11:44.55 | Human | nook? |
| 11:45.05 | olafski | it might help if I can't remember how to write a word or something, but that happens so seldom(ly?) that I usually just use dictionary.com ;) |
| 11:45.12 | olafski | human: I still had 'no' in my input bar from the last reply |
| 11:45.30 | Human | ok |
| 11:46.23 | sylvanaar_atwork | i dont always spell correctly, so this is sorta helpful for that. |
| 11:46.44 | sylvanaar_atwork | though its not working in my irc client for whatever reason |
| 11:46.52 | olafski | ah.. without wanting to sound arrogant, I think I do usually spell correctly ;) |
| 11:47.23 | foxlit | I think my OS/chat software does automatic spell checking on entry fields. |
| 11:47.42 | olafski | mine doesn't.. firefox can do that though I think |
| 11:47.42 | foxlit | no dropdowns, just squiggly underlines and context menus for words it doesn't agree with. |
| 11:48.05 | olafski | anywho, bbl.. must get thesis printed +) |
| 11:53.14 | zenzio | hm, MMOC's upgrade started sooner than I had expected |
| 11:54.02 | Arrowmaster | yeah i much prefer the squiggly underlines and context menus over a box that popup up every time you start typing |
| 11:54.53 | Arrowmaster | especially for irc since my input box is at the bottom of the screen, a popup would have to go above it and block the conversations |
| 11:55.46 | sylvanaar_atwork | it doesnt work in my irc client anyways |
| 11:56.03 | Arrowmaster | what client? |
| 11:56.12 | sylvanaar_atwork | im guessing because my client is written with QT |
| 11:56.23 | sylvanaar_atwork | kvric |
| 11:56.35 | Arrowmaster | sounds reasonable |
| 11:56.37 | sylvanaar_atwork | i loves me some kvirc |
| 11:59.10 | zenzio | I can see why you like it: http://www.kvirc.net/img/themes/theme_hellokitty.png |
| 12:01.57 | *** join/#wowuidev boshi23 (~chris@c-68-36-37-83.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 12:05.08 | *** join/#wowuidev L4x4t0r (~dada@AMontsouris-153-1-41-81.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 12:06.20 | zenzio | http://averagecats.com/2680 |
| 12:06.48 | foxlit | Hm. |
| 12:07.00 | foxlit | There's no easy way to integrate autocompletion into the staticpopup dialogs? |
| 12:07.38 | foxlit | There must be. |
| 12:07.54 | zenzio | I don't know... they're not very dynamic |
| 12:07.56 | zenzio | \o/ |
| 12:08.03 | foxlit | popup.autoCompleteParams |
| 12:10.00 | foxlit | = {include=include, exclude=excude} |
| 12:10.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Guardix (~Martin@188.178.100.163) |
| 12:11.27 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
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| 12:14.15 | Fisker | you will be found foxlit |
| 12:14.18 | Fisker | and zenzio |
| 12:16.27 | sylvanaar_atwork | you should try eType with Wow |
| 12:16.34 | sylvanaar_atwork | windowed |
| 12:17.04 | sylvanaar_atwork | that would be neat if it worked |
| 12:17.15 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@d86-33-7-18.cust.tele2.at) |
| 12:17.46 | Fisker | etype? |
| 12:18.06 | sylvanaar_atwork | http://techcrunch.com/2010/06/10/etype-auto-completes-your-writing-everywhere-1000-exclusive-invites/ |
| 12:18.32 | Fisker | i disagree |
| 12:18.42 | sylvanaar_atwork | of course you do |
| 12:19.35 | Fisker | why shouldn't i? |
| 12:20.20 | sylvanaar_atwork | this is where i come when I want negative validation for an idea, lol. it keeps me sane |
| 12:21.10 | Fisker | you calling me negative? |
| 12:22.23 | foxlit | lua> 4 |
| 12:22.24 | lua_bot | foxlit: 4 |
| 12:22.30 | foxlit | lua> print"hello" |
| 12:22.30 | lua_bot | foxlit: hello |
| 12:22.35 | theorbtwo | I very much doubt it will work. WoW goes to some rather extreme measures to keep that sort of thing from happening, since it's basicly the same functionality you want for a bot or a keylogger. |
| 12:22.36 | foxlit | lua> print"hello","world" |
| 12:22.36 | lua_bot | foxlit: hello, nil, world |
| 12:22.44 | sylvanaar_atwork | lua> print{1} |
| 12:22.44 | lua_bot | sylvanaar_atwork: table: 0x9c39c18 |
| 12:23.00 | foxlit | "stdin:1: unexpected symbol near ','" |
| 12:23.02 | foxlit | Thought so. |
| 12:23.26 | Fisker | what extreme meassures are those theorbtwo ? |
| 12:23.45 | sylvanaar_atwork | theorbtwo: doesnt steam work? |
| 12:24.00 | sylvanaar_atwork | oh, and i can cut and paste from wow |
| 12:24.25 | theorbtwo | Fisker: To be fair... I don't exactly know. It's the anti-cheat thing. I don't look too deeply at it. |
| 12:25.00 | theorbtwo | sylvanaar_atwork: They probably explicitly make cut-and-paste work. |
| 12:25.05 | krka | foxlit: the bot tries to perform "return " .. s first |
| 12:25.18 | theorbtwo | ...and what does steam have to do with anything? Valve's CDN? |
| 12:25.28 | foxlit | krka: or second. |
| 12:26.11 | sylvanaar_atwork | lua> , |
| 12:26.12 | lua_bot | sylvanaar_atwork: luabot:1: unexpected symbol near ',' |
| 12:26.24 | krka | lua> (function() print"hello" return 123 end)() |
| 12:26.24 | lua_bot | krka: hello, 123 |
| 12:26.29 | krka | foxlit: no, it's first |
| 12:26.34 | sylvanaar_atwork | lua print, |
| 12:26.38 | sylvanaar_atwork | meh |
| 12:28.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (~Lopeppepp@141.222.29.18) |
| 12:28.59 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 12:29.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Sum_Wun (~sumwun@72.183.41.75) |
| 12:32.24 | Arrowmaster | wow does actually work with IME but i dont know if its the direct IME from windows or if theyve done something to it |
| 12:33.19 | Fisker | i did something to you |
| 12:34.04 | sylvanaar_atwork | do you see why i think Fisker is a bot |
| 12:34.38 | sylvanaar_atwork | how old are you 25? |
| 12:34.48 | Arrowmaster|BDay | ummm |
| 12:34.51 | Arrowmaster|BDay | 24 |
| 12:34.51 | sylvanaar_atwork | 24? |
| 12:34.58 | sylvanaar_atwork | hey i was close |
| 12:35.02 | olafski | congratulations |
| 12:35.09 | olafski | industrial: how'd the pirate party do? =) |
| 12:35.45 | Arrowmaster|BDay | im going to go sleep and try and forget about my aging |
| 12:35.45 | olafski | won't work, I tried =( |
| 12:35.45 | Stan_ | happy bday :p |
| 12:36.28 | Arrowmaster|BDay | olafski: yeah i know, but at least as a last resort theres the tequila older than i am |
| 12:37.29 | olafski | that works I think.. at least a while :) |
| 12:37.58 | Arrowmaster|BDay | actually isnt really a drinker |
| 12:38.17 | sylvanaar_atwork | wait until 33 |
| 12:39.00 | sylvanaar_atwork | years seem like weeks |
| 12:39.08 | Arrowmaster|BDay | they already do |
| 12:40.51 | Lopeppeppy | The hours crawl by like years. |
| 12:41.18 | Lopeppeppy | I'm getting very very sick of all of the phishing emails I'm getting lately. Rawr. |
| 12:41.57 | zenzio | Lopeppeppy: I cleared my Gmail spam folder earlier; 11/77 spam mails were WoW phishing/scam mails |
| 12:43.48 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 12:43.58 | Lopeppeppy | I dutifully forward them all to the hacks team. |
| 12:48.51 | Arrowmaster|BDay | my gmail spam folder is empty |
| 12:48.58 | Arrowmaster|BDay | its been empty for an entire year |
| 12:49.59 | Arrowmaster|BDay | thats only on one account though, others i wont even look at they have too many |
| 12:50.08 | Arrowmaster|BDay | now im really heading to bed |
| 12:54.26 | zenzio | I don't actually get too much spam on Gmail (compared to other people I know), so I occasionally check the folder to see how many WoW scams I get, or if I've got any incorrectly identified ones |
| 12:58.07 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~alestane@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 12:58.08 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 13:00.18 | Lopeppeppy | is sleeeeeepy |
| 13:00.46 | zenzio | I'm always sleepy in pollen season :-| |
| 13:01.02 | Lopeppeppy | Same here. Either the allergies are kicking my ass, or the allergy meds are. |
| 13:01.18 | zenzio | I think it's a little of both |
| 13:01.24 | zenzio | for me that is |
| 13:01.39 | Lopeppeppy | And it's cold dark damp drizzly here, has been for 4 days. Sleeeeeepy! |
| 13:03.57 | alestane | Yeah, same. I think Monday was nice until the evening and since then it's been rainy. |
| 13:04.09 | alestane | Solar-powered cat goes Zzzzzzzzz....... |
| 13:04.31 | zenzio | http://icanhascheezburger.com/2010/06/10/funny-pictures-out-sick-today/ ! |
| 13:04.34 | Lopeppeppy | Yeah.... blargle. |
| 13:07.41 | DJJeff | function() Recount:Pause() |
| 13:08.27 | DJJeff | ^^^^ is this ok? |
| 13:08.27 | Kaso | syntax error |
| 13:08.27 | zenzio | what are you trying to do? |
| 13:08.57 | DJJeff | RecountFu_Options.lua trying to add a pause/unpause option |
| 13:09.20 | DJJeff | I like to pause recount in 25 man and unpause in 5 and 10 man |
| 13:09.29 | DJJeff | cause 25 mans my comp lags |
| 13:09.55 | Kaso | if you;re trying to declare a function you dont need a brackets after function |
| 13:10.13 | DJJeff | ok |
| 13:10.51 | foxlit | Kaso: it could be that it's missing an "end" |
| 13:11.35 | Kaso | yeah well he's either missing an end to make it a closure that calls Recount:Pause() or has an extra () and missing an end to declare the function recount.pause |
| 13:11.55 | DJJeff | ohhhh |
| 13:12.29 | DJJeff | I guess a pastebin would explain more what I am trying for |
| 13:12.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Alram (~Marla@fabe.xs4all.nl) |
| 13:13.18 | DJJeff | http://pastebin.com/gimjvhdu |
| 13:13.43 | DJJeff | line 23 down I added myself |
| 13:14.01 | DJJeff | and yes I know "line 23" is a double |
| 13:14.19 | Kaso | Thats fine then |
| 13:14.30 | DJJeff | coolio |
| 13:14.45 | zenzio | double what? That it shared the key of the setting below it? |
| 13:14.46 | DJJeff | im surprized the author of recountfu didnt add this |
| 13:14.56 | DJJeff | yes |
| 13:14.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@68.194.7.23) |
| 13:14.59 | *** join/#wowuidev felipe` (~felipe@my.nada.kth.se) |
| 13:15.12 | zenzio | well, I would assume Recount already has a slash command to stop and start |
| 13:15.28 | DJJeff | it does |
| 13:15.38 | DJJeff | but I dont wanna type pause during a fight |
| 13:15.53 | DJJeff | I wanna click it quickly in fubar |
| 13:15.59 | alestane | In that case, DJJeff, you can get really simple: |
| 13:16.20 | Kraps | I knew that I'd lived in New York too long when, a few years ago, I was on a subway going downtown, and it stopped at 14th Street. At the station, the doors opened, and the conductor announced that there was a bomb on board and we should evacuate immediately. Nobody moved. We just looked at each other, 'Do you see a bomb?' 'I don't see a bomb.' 'There's no bomb.' 'I've only got two stops --... |
| 13:16.21 | DJJeff | which is why I have fubar to begin with.... its a huge timesavor |
| 13:16.22 | Kraps | ...let's go for it.' |
| 13:16.33 | Kraps | -- Lewis Black |
| 13:16.48 | alestane | Actually, no you can't, because you have to pass Recount to Recount.Pause. |
| 13:17.42 | alestane | However, you're declaring the resetpos key twice in that table, on lines 23 & 30. |
| 13:17.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Mihau (~alexia@69.73.16.202) |
| 13:18.06 | alestane | I'm guessing the first one is supposed to be "pause". |
| 13:18.19 | foxlit | "DJJeff: and yes I know "line 23" is a double" |
| 13:18.23 | foxlit | totally pre-empted. |
| 13:18.43 | DJJeff | yes I fixed that alestane |
| 13:18.50 | DJJeff | its cause I copy pasted |
| 13:19.58 | DJJeff | http://pastebin.com/vkL7uaN3 updated version |
| 13:20.11 | DJJeff | also fixed the order # :) |
| 13:21.07 | DJJeff | I need to test this out in WoW then add in unpause |
| 13:21.17 | DJJeff | if it works |
| 13:21.37 | alestane | Do you also close the args and RecountFu.consoleOptions table constructors in your version? |
| 13:22.01 | zenzio | oh, WoW forums... "You can't bid on your own auctions WTF !!!!" - "It's been like that since day 1 of your gameplay, however, it was introduced in the game with patch 3.2, I believe." |
| 13:22.07 | DJJeff | alestane that pastebin link only shows what you need to see |
| 13:22.16 | DJJeff | there are 1000 lines in the whole file |
| 13:22.29 | *** part/#wowuidev Xinhuan (~xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 13:22.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (~xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 13:23.02 | alestane | Well, pasting incomplete chunks of code for debugging can also be misleading. I'm not saying paste the whole file, but at least paste something complete or we're likely to waste our time poking at things that aren't problems. |
| 13:23.50 | zenzio | his original question was about one small part of one line in his pastey; I think he did it about right. Maybe even pasted a little more than necessary |
| 13:24.50 | DJJeff | ok |
| 13:24.55 | DJJeff | pasted the whole file |
| 13:24.56 | DJJeff | http://pastebin.com/4tzYWPNe |
| 13:25.12 | DJJeff | my changes are @ line 405 |
| 13:25.26 | DJJeff | and in WoW my changes broke it |
| 13:25.44 | DJJeff | something todo with " order = " I bet |
| 13:26.22 | foxlit | I can destroy the array portion of the table while iterating over it with ipairs, right? |
| 13:26.51 | foxlit | lua> t={1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10} for i,j in ipairs(t) do t[i] = nil; end for i in pairs(t) do print(i); end |
| 13:26.51 | lua_bot | foxlit: No output |
| 13:27.51 | Kalroth | fail! |
| 13:28.02 | foxlit | nah, that seems to be fine. |
| 13:28.21 | Xinhuan | its fine unless your array part has a hole |
| 13:28.37 | foxlit | Xinhuan: in which case it's no an array to begin with. |
| 13:28.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Guardix-lagtop (~Martin@188.178.100.163) |
| 13:28.50 | alestane | Array parts pretty much don't have holes in Lua. The array part is everything up to the first hole. |
| 13:28.56 | Xinhuan | that would depend on the technical explanation of what "array part" means |
| 13:29.03 | Xinhuan | t={1,2,3,4,5,nil,7,8,9,10} |
| 13:29.08 | Xinhuan | would still create an array of 10 |
| 13:29.13 | Xinhuan | none of that is hashed |
| 13:29.28 | alestane | If you're talking about the split implementation of tables inside Lua, ignore that. |
| 13:29.50 | alestane | It is useless for talking about reliable implementations. |
| 13:30.39 | alestane | As a Lua author, it is basically never useful to worry about how Lua is storing any given table index. |
| 13:30.42 | Xinhuan | straight iteration with a for i = 1, #t loop is faster than ipairs() btw |
| 13:31.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Gnarfoz (smallbrain@geektour.de) |
| 13:31.19 | alestane | Although it can possibly skip over holes in a table. |
| 13:32.06 | foxlit | Xinhuan: while generally true, not a margin I care about in this case. The convenience of having i,v in ipairs outweighs the the few nanoseconds. |
| 13:32.09 | alestane | There is a big debate going on in the Lua mailing list about whether or not the community supports the authors' push to deprecate ipairs in 5.2, pretty much for that reason. |
| 13:32.19 | Xinhuan | i've never found any situation to use ipairs() ever |
| 13:32.52 | Xinhuan | the convenience isn't really there foxlit |
| 13:32.55 | Xinhuan | its just a matter of |
| 13:32.57 | Kraps | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25170784514&sid=1 |
| 13:33.01 | foxlit | local v = t[i] |
| 13:33.05 | foxlit | Which is just ugly. |
| 13:33.09 | Xinhuan | for k = 1, #t do local v = t[k] end |
| 13:33.10 | Adys | ~wowiquotes |
| 13:33.11 | purl | http://www.teomyr.eu/wowuidev/irc-quotes |
| 13:33.17 | Xinhuan | its just an additional line "local v = t[k]" |
| 13:33.22 | Xinhuan | and that is just way faster |
| 13:33.26 | Xinhuan | than ipairs() |
| 13:33.36 | foxlit | Sorry. |
| 13:33.51 | foxlit | I don't think the marginal performance difference justifies the eyesore. |
| 13:33.54 | alestane | But it doesn't have that feeling of "for every element in this array" that ipairs does. |
| 13:34.14 | Xinhuan | your choice, an additional line isn't eyesore to me hehe |
| 13:35.00 | foxlit | for i=1,#RKS_TransferMetaKeys do local v = RKS_TransferMetaKeys[i]; ... end |
| 13:35.06 | foxlit | for i,v in ipairs(RKS_TransferMetaKeys) do ... end |
| 13:35.13 | alestane | Although I think part of the reason that the authors want to ditch it is that using a numeric for makes the behavior quite explicit instead of relying on things like the unpredictable behavior of #t in tables with non-contiguous sequences of integer keys. |
| 13:35.31 | Fisker | hey alestane |
| 13:35.54 | alestane | Afternoon, Fisker. |
| 13:35.54 | Xinhuan | then perhaps the problem is in the "unpredictability of #t |
| 13:36.03 | Kraps | eh? http://www.google.com/webhp?rls=ig |
| 13:36.07 | Xinhuan | it shouldn't be implemented as unpredictable |
| 13:36.48 | foxlit | Xinhuan: plenty of things have undefined behavior when you don't fulfil their contracts |
| 13:36.58 | Xinhuan | ya so avoid those situations in the first place |
| 13:37.02 | foxlit | for instance, who knows what next() might do if you modify the table it's operating on? |
| 13:37.19 | Fisker | everyone gets reported Kraps |
| 13:37.30 | Xinhuan | was more replying to "relying on things like the unpredictable behavior of #t" |
| 13:37.34 | foxlit | so unpredictability of #t is not a problem -- people using #t when its behavior is undefined is. |
| 13:37.37 | Xinhuan | because it shouldn't happen in the first place |
| 13:38.11 | alestane | Of course, there's also the option to do "local i, v = 1, t[1]; while v do --[[stuff]] i = i + 1; v = t[i]; end" |
| 13:38.36 | foxlit | Interesting, I thought my speller would whine about fulfil. |
| 13:39.05 | Kraps | Fisker: would you report this? http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25170615050&sid=1 |
| 13:39.24 | Xinhuan | or maybe make the compiler be smart enough to convert ipairs() to a standard for-loop internally! |
| 13:39.44 | foxlit | Xinhuan: cannot be done :( |
| 13:39.53 | foxlit | The compiler can never guarantee that ipairs really is ipairs. :( |
| 13:39.56 | alestane | That would completely violate how the Lua parser is intended to operate. |
| 13:40.20 | foxlit | Same problem with select(i, ...) syntax |
| 13:40.29 | alestane | Especially since, as foxlit points out, ipairs is not a keyword. |
| 13:40.37 | foxlit | It could be more efficient if someone realized it was calling select rather than a generic function. |
| 13:41.56 | Xinhuan | bbl! |
| 13:42.18 | foxlit | I ran into Lua's limitation on the number of captures in a pattern in the past codejam round :/ |
| 13:42.42 | alestane | I've seen some people propose syntaces for indexing or getting length of varargs, but none are very clean or effective. |
| 13:43.22 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 13:43.46 | foxlit | Perhaps the main issue is that Lua doesn't do lists |
| 13:44.14 | foxlit | So varargs always end up being slightly cumbersome. |
| 13:44.31 | alestane | Perhaps, but keeping track of the various sequences in Python and what each one does and doesn't do always makes my head hurt. |
| 13:44.54 | foxlit | I don't mind Lua's design in that area, really. |
| 13:45.09 | alestane | varargs used to be passed in a special table. |
| 13:45.47 | Fisker | you foxlit |
| 13:46.20 | Kraps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAue4hnH8-A&feature=player_embedded |
| 13:46.33 | Fisker | hahaha |
| 13:46.36 | Fisker | apple cocksuckers |
| 13:46.45 | Fisker | As a result, when I came back and saw it had been posted, I pulled. Not because the EVO 4G was winning in the poll. Not because it said nice things about the EVO 4G. I pulled it simply because I didn't think it was fair to make the comparison yet. |
| 13:46.57 | Fisker | bawwwwwwwwww |
| 13:52.42 | Lopeppeppy | I still love that they had technical difficulties at the iPhone presentation... overloaded the WiFi. |
| 13:53.05 | Wobin | The nice thing about bein a disc priest for a raid |
| 13:53.12 | Wobin | is that you're usually the only disc priest in the raid =P |
| 13:53.15 | alestane | Beware Steve Jobs' unstoppable Falcon Punch. |
| 13:53.23 | foxlit | Wobin: lies. |
| 13:53.26 | Kraps | lol Wobin |
| 13:53.31 | Wobin | for 10mans =) |
| 13:53.41 | foxlit | I'm sure it's a conspiracy, but I somehow always end up with TWO Weakend Soul debuffs :/ |
| 13:53.48 | haste | Wobin: we rarely have two priests in the same 25-man raid |
| 13:54.02 | Wobin | haste we've had up to 4 priests in our 10man =P |
| 13:54.07 | sylvanaar_atwork | Lopeppeppy: they had 200+ mifi hotspots in the room |
| 13:54.08 | haste | 2xWS is also very common :P |
| 13:55.52 | Lopeppeppy | Then the presentation shouldn't have been wireless. Did they not think ahead? |
| 13:56.38 | Fisker | Google did the same thing :P |
| 13:56.56 | Fisker | besides none of those new smartphones are smart |
| 13:57.09 | Fisker | Back in the days of the real smartphones all you did was connect it via USB |
| 13:57.17 | Fisker | and then you had internet through that USB connection |
| 13:57.23 | Fisker | today? NAW YOU MUST USE WIFI!1 |
| 13:58.39 | jnwhiteh | and you needed specialised drivers |
| 13:58.46 | jnwhiteh | I wonder why they moved away from that O.o |
| 13:59.08 | Wobin | I'm surprised the whole presentation -wasn't- prerecorded =P |
| 13:59.16 | Wobin | and then played like a show for the audience |
| 13:59.25 | Wobin | Haven't they -done- presentations before? |
| 13:59.33 | Wobin | don't they realise something will -always- go wrong? =P |
| 13:59.35 | foxlit | Wobin: presumably they have |
| 13:59.41 | foxlit | And presumably things always went right before. |
| 13:59.45 | Wobin | Haha |
| 13:59.49 | Wobin | so it was only a matter of time =P |
| 14:00.38 | foxlit | coming next year: Steve Jobs presents iPhone 5, reporters sit in a Faraday cage. |
| 14:02.21 | Wobin | also, I love being an alchemist for raids, the extended flask time is awesome |
| 14:02.27 | Kraps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRAot6p3zzc&feature=player_embedded#! |
| 14:02.35 | foxlit | I generally slack on flasks :/ |
| 14:03.32 | Fisker | Gizmodo is mad though |
| 14:09.08 | Kraps | http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2010/06/500x_badmovies.jpg |
| 14:10.26 | *** join/#wowuidev malreth (~triti@dhcp-128-83-186-188.its.utexas.edu) |
| 14:10.48 | malreth | MALRETH HAS REJOINED THE ROOM |
| 14:11.37 | Fisker | i lol'd Kraps |
| 14:11.38 | Fisker | I LOLD! |
| 14:11.49 | zenzelezz | there was much rejoicing |
| 14:12.24 | Fisker | hey zenzelezz |
| 14:12.26 | Fisker | did you read the news? |
| 14:15.46 | jnwhiteh | so |
| 14:15.50 | jnwhiteh | I've got half a page written |
| 14:15.58 | jnwhiteh | and I'm just getting nowhere beyond that. |
| 14:16.43 | haste | 1. Kill Fisker |
| 14:16.47 | haste | 2. Surge of inspiration |
| 14:16.48 | haste | 3. ?? |
| 14:16.50 | haste | 4. Profit! |
| 14:18.32 | Shirik | ^ |
| 14:18.42 | Shirik | jnwhiteh |
| 14:18.48 | Shirik | we were having our perforce vs git discussion yesterday |
| 14:19.00 | Shirik | I had to do a merge of like 50 files to 3 different branches yesterday |
| 14:19.07 | Shirik | and it was so easy. I thought I was using git. |
| 14:19.47 | jnwhiteh | heh |
| 14:20.03 | Fisker | haste |
| 14:20.04 | Shirik | of course I totally broke the CI server for whatever reason |
| 14:20.09 | Shirik | I think it's just in a pissy mood |
| 14:20.15 | Shirik | the build works it's full of crap |
| 14:20.23 | jnwhiteh | they're very touchy |
| 14:20.24 | Fisker | http://ekstrabladet.dk/112/article1360380.ece <-I'm wrongfully accused :( |
| 14:20.52 | Shirik | I changed an interface and it's now complaining about linker errors on the old function name, "symbol not defined" and I'm sitting there like "no shit" |
| 14:20.55 | Shirik | I think it just needs a rebuild |
| 14:21.13 | Fisker | haste |
| 14:21.16 | Fisker | do it |
| 14:22.30 | *** join/#wowuidev |Jelly| (~chatzilla@adsl-99-178-187-163.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 14:22.39 | Fisker | you will be destroyed haste |
| 14:24.01 | Shirik | unlikely |
| 14:24.05 | malreth | ...your friends will abandon you... |
| 14:24.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Cargor (~quassel@dslb-088-070-056-191.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:24.09 | Shirik | I always had trouble killing people with a lot of haste |
| 14:24.24 | Shirik | people were always telling me I didn't have enough haste |
| 14:24.27 | Shirik | but I need crit too |
| 14:24.36 | Shirik | so I'm sitting there like "what do you want me to be, perfect?" |
| 14:24.44 | Shirik | haste probably stacks crit |
| 14:24.48 | Shirik | so we're screwed |
| 14:24.49 | Wobin | http://pics.blameitonthevoices.com/062010/bp_fail_whale.jpg |
| 14:27.00 | Wobin | also lol http://pics.blameitonthevoices.com/062010/iphantom_zone.jpg |
| 14:28.35 | malreth | that poor whale |
| 14:30.07 | alestane | For the first time I find myself really, genuinely wishing for a continue statement in Lua. |
| 14:32.05 | foxlit | goto! |
| 14:32.57 | malreth | punches through foxlit's chest |
| 14:33.14 | foxlit | You are no steve jobs. |
| 14:33.19 | foxlit | Punch misses. |
| 14:33.58 | malreth | drops a whiskey barrel on foxlit |
| 14:34.06 | Shirik | alestane |
| 14:34.17 | Shirik | return :) |
| 14:34.25 | Kraps | Shirik |
| 14:34.28 | alestane | I'm reframing the loop anyway. |
| 14:34.48 | *** join/#wowuidev zenzelezz (~zenzelezz@cm-84.212.107.146.getinternet.no) |
| 14:34.52 | Shirik | for x = 1, 5 do (function() --[[ stuff here]] return; --[[eg continue]] end)() --[[ more stuff here]] end |
| 14:35.01 | alestane | Pulling some of the work out into a separate block. |
| 14:35.17 | Shirik | er |
| 14:35.20 | Shirik | not what I meant |
| 14:35.28 | Shirik | lua> for x = 1, 5 do (function() if x == 3 then return; end print(x) end)() end |
| 14:35.29 | lua_bot | Shirik: 1, 2, 4, 5 |
| 14:35.34 | Shirik | that's what I meant |
| 14:35.39 | Kraps | Shirik |
| 14:35.42 | alestane | Yes, Shirik, there are three or four ways to fake a continue in Lua. All of them are dirty. |
| 14:35.55 | Shirik | Kraps |
| 14:36.00 | alestane | And it's not what I really want here anyway. |
| 14:36.18 | alestane | I want to pull some of the prep work out of the loop instead of doing it on the fly. |
| 14:38.23 | krka | care to show the actual problematic code? |
| 14:38.27 | krka | maybe we can help! |
| 14:43.39 | Fisker | slaps Shirik around a bit with a large trout |
| 14:43.43 | Fisker | haste |
| 14:43.45 | Fisker | you will read |
| 14:44.04 | Shirik | I think not |
| 14:44.55 | krka | that's what i thought alestane! all talk and no walk :P |
| 14:45.04 | Shirik | lol |
| 14:45.11 | alestane | I'm refactoring it anyway, krka. |
| 14:45.35 | alestane | The need for a continue in the first place pointed out the fact that I was approaching the problem wrong. |
| 14:45.53 | krka | that would have been my conclusion as well |
| 14:50.42 | Kraps | Shirik: did/do you play aion? |
| 14:53.59 | *** join/#wowuidev akhe (~akhe@0x573fa156.ronqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 14:54.50 | Ackis | http://cheezfailbooking.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/funny-facebook-single-warcr.png |
| 15:02.27 | cog|work | double squee... not only did we get approved for modification, but my dad should have a place by the end of the week... We'll have our place to ourselves again! |
| 15:04.15 | Fisker | slaps cog|work around a bit with a large trout |
| 15:04.41 | cog|work | Fiskers Fisker around a bit with a large Fisker |
| 15:05.22 | Lopeppeppy | EXTRA SQUEE!!! No more sisterling. |
| 15:05.32 | mikma | haste: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ey3bDyM3cA&fmt=18 |
| 15:09.23 | Fisker | stop it cog|work |
| 15:09.47 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 15:10.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Odlaw (ozzy@c-98-245-3-204.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 15:14.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Mihau (~alexia@69.73.16.202) |
| 15:17.04 | mikma | antiarc: tomtom waypoint arrow in hudmap! |
| 15:24.14 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (~bluspacec@60-234-165-167.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) |
| 15:24.54 | bluspacecow | \o |
| 15:24.59 | cog|work | o/ |
| 15:25.00 | bluspacecow | *reloads http://safariextensions.tumblr.com/ again* |
| 15:25.05 | bluspacecow | *and again* |
| 15:25.16 | bluspacecow | so addicted to Safari 5 extensions now |
| 15:31.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik_ (~d1d8a3bb@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 15:31.58 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik_] by ChanServ |
| 15:34.46 | alestane | Wow, yeah, this code got ALL kinds of messed up. |
| 15:37.57 | Kraps | Shirik |
| 15:38.42 | Kraps | Shirik_ |
| 15:39.29 | *** join/#wowuidev zenzelezz (~zenzelezz@cm-84.212.107.146.getinternet.no) |
| 15:40.06 | Shirik_ | ? |
| 15:40.14 | bluspacecow | ~seen Shirik |
| 15:40.17 | purl | shirik is currently on #norganna #wowuidev #wowace. Has said a total of 45 messages. Is idling for 55m 13s, last said: 'lol'. |
| 15:42.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (kalroth@3e6babaa.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 15:43.27 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 15:46.34 | Kraps | Shirik_: did/do you play aion? |
| 15:46.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (~Lunessa@WoWUIDev/Lunessa) |
| 15:46.59 | Lunessa | station |
| 15:47.19 | Kraps | that was a terrible AN btw |
| 15:48.07 | Kraps | hey Lunessa |
| 15:48.18 | Lunessa | Yo. |
| 15:49.41 | Kraps | SHIRIK |
| 15:58.09 | *** join/#wowuidev zenzelezz (~zenzelezz@cm-84.212.107.146.getinternet.no) |
| 15:59.02 | *** part/#wowuidev Kaso (~Kaso@89.240.5.140) |
| 16:01.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (~Srosh@d056051.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 16:03.57 | Lopeppeppy | Mac animations still make me sick. |
| 16:04.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Kazie (~Kazie@188.114.158.72) |
| 16:04.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Pneumatus^ (~WiN@pneumatus.plus.com) |
| 16:04.58 | *** join/#wowuidev laeg (~laeg@unaffiliated/laeg) |
| 16:05.59 | laeg | can you not pay for wow in europe with paypal? |
| 16:08.43 | Fisker | Lopeppeppy Kraps |
| 16:09.05 | Kraps | Fisker Fisker Fisker Fisker |
| 16:13.05 | cog|work | Fisker Fisker rolly polly Fisker |
| 16:13.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Guardix-lagtop (~Martin@188.178.100.163) |
| 16:14.04 | Lunessa | ... I love it. We have a domain controller failure right before my shift... and I get taken to task by some NASA flunky because our web site is down "please consider doing your web-site maintenance outside of regular business hours." You know what asshole? BLOW ME. |
| 16:14.14 | alestane | Fisker your blasted Tourette's or whatever it is keeps throwing highlight words up in here and making me think there's something I need to pay attention to. |
| 16:14.44 | Kraps | alestane: dont highlight so many words |
| 16:15.00 | zenzelezz | Lunessa: tell him you'll do that as soon as their launch schedules wok out |
| 16:15.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Bibi (~Bibi@unaffiliated/bibi) |
| 16:15.33 | zenzelezz | work out |
| 16:15.41 | zenzelezz | I'm not sure how a launch schedule could "wok out" |
| 16:15.51 | cog|work | wok this way |
| 16:16.14 | Lunessa | He's pissed off he can't look up someone's fucking phone number. No shit? How about we're busting our asses over here - cause a domain controller failed. |
| 16:16.41 | cog|work | i really need to get a wok burner and good ventillation (sp?) for the kitchen. My barbecue grill is turning to dust with the high heat |
| 16:16.42 | batbot | cog|work, ventilation. |
| 16:17.19 | Fisker | wow |
| 16:17.22 | Fisker | that's one bombshell |
| 16:17.28 | haste | mikma: not really a fan of EBM |
| 16:17.34 | mikma | haste: :( |
| 16:17.46 | Fisker | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25170782836&pageNo=9&sid=1#166 |
| 16:17.47 | Kraps | http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2010/05/500x_gayhistory.jpg |
| 16:18.26 | Kraps | Fisker: hawt |
| 16:18.27 | haste | mikma: there's some decent artists, but they are so borderline that I would hardely continue to call them EBM :P |
| 16:18.28 | bryno | Fisker: whoa, that is awesome |
| 16:19.20 | eidolarr | Can anyone explain to me why action buttons appear to be checkbuttons instead of just buttons? |
| 16:19.35 | eidolarr | is the idea that you "check" it off until the server responds that the action has been accepted or something? |
| 16:20.16 | eidolarr | it is not immediately intuitive that they would be checkbuttons |
| 16:20.40 | *** join/#wowuidev jacobeiting (~jacobeiti@2620:0:1b07:11:21b:63ff:fece:15c9) |
| 16:20.56 | foxlit | Fisker: "thats good news, but more people will keep quitting pvp if there arent rewards offered." |
| 16:21.04 | foxlit | Why are they whining about pvp rewards? |
| 16:21.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Mikina (~632153a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.33.83.160) |
| 16:21.53 | Kraps | foxlit: people like rewards? |
| 16:22.16 | zenzelezz | it's interesting that "PvP rewards" and "PvP retards" are so close |
| 16:22.21 | foxlit | Kraps: but it would seem logical to presume that there will be some |
| 16:22.41 | foxlit | besides, "keep quitting" ==> people are currently quitting, and rewards do exist. |
| 16:22.59 | Mikina | reward? where? *runs furiously in virtual hampster wheel* |
| 16:23.25 | eidolarr | I think one of the great tragedies of WoW is its reliance on rewards |
| 16:23.39 | eidolarr | it makes people forget the game is fun to play for the sake of playing |
| 16:23.42 | eidolarr | especially pvp |
| 16:24.45 | eidolarr | lots of people used to world pvp every day for fun, now those same people will idle in dalaran once they've got their honor gear |
| 16:24.56 | foxlit | On the other hand, it makes more people play pvp than those who would've otherwise. |
| 16:25.24 | foxlit | Oh, lies. World PvP wasn't fun, it was an expression of boredom. |
| 16:25.32 | eidolarr | maybe for you |
| 16:25.37 | eidolarr | world pvp was big on my server |
| 16:25.58 | eidolarr | and it wasnt even a pvp server |
| 16:25.58 | foxlit | And you did what? :) |
| 16:26.09 | eidolarr | we attacked cities, tried to kill leaders |
| 16:26.20 | eidolarr | defended the boat between menethil and darkshore |
| 16:26.33 | Lopeppeppy | Loved Southshore PVP |
| 16:26.36 | foxlit | why would the boat need defending? |
| 16:26.42 | eidolarr | we would show up to raids an hour early and start 30 minutes late ganking in blackrock mountain |
| 16:26.48 | eidolarr | no we were horde lol |
| 16:26.56 | eidolarr | "defend" isnt the right word |
| 16:27.44 | eidolarr | and yeah southshore was good times for sure |
| 16:27.53 | eidolarr | although when it got around to the 10 minute res timers it wasnt so fun |
| 16:28.16 | foxlit | Southshore was the equivalent of a 40v40 fight in one of those AV chokes. |
| 16:28.28 | foxlit | Move 3 feet forward, cast blizzard, move three feet back. |
| 16:28.41 | foxlit | Anything that moved 4 feet forward would die. |
| 16:29.08 | eidolarr | it was less centralized, there was def the zerg but there were side skirmishes too |
| 16:29.41 | eidolarr | but yeah in the heat of it haha |
| 16:29.42 | Shirik_ | kraps: I haven't in a while, but yes |
| 16:29.45 | Shirik_ | I used to be pretty good at it :) |
| 16:30.07 | eidolarr | although 40v40AV back in the day was even stupider, with the mad powerful towers and npcs |
| 16:30.22 | eidolarr | there were a few ruonds of av on my server that lasted for more than one day |
| 16:31.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@pool020.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 16:31.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 16:32.03 | Kraps | Shirik_: "good" as in pvp? |
| 16:35.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (~dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 16:40.45 | Shirik_ | yes |
| 16:40.56 | *** join/#wowuidev robokitty (~robotusch@50A2E67F.flatrate.dk) |
| 16:40.59 | Shirik_ | see I come fgrom a game called RF Online |
| 16:41.01 | Shirik_ | very similar |
| 16:41.16 | Shirik_ | I went to Aion with the guild I was with there |
| 16:41.40 | Fisker | slaps robokitty around a bit with a large trout |
| 16:41.40 | Fisker | slaps Shirik_ around a bit with a large trout |
| 16:42.15 | robokitty | fu |
| 16:42.33 | robokitty | Earth, Wind & Fire is hard, y/n/m? :/ |
| 16:42.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Audible (~jon@2001:5c0:1400:b::724d) |
| 16:42.55 | zenzelezz | knowing Shirik, I bet the RF stood for Radio Frequencies |
| 16:43.14 | Kraps | age of conan is 10 bucks lol |
| 16:43.17 | Lunessa | World PvP in WoW was never "fun" for me - massive numbers of players in a non-instanced fight basically meant all I did was die a lot and have no fun. |
| 16:43.55 | Kraps | Shirik_: did you like the game? |
| 16:44.51 | alestane | That's all I ever really do in PvP, Lunessa. |
| 16:45.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (~Kaso@host86-150-112-145.range86-150.btcentralplus.com) |
| 16:48.48 | eidolarr | Lunessa: it sucked for me too since it lagged so bad, but I had a lot of fun in smaller skirmishes that spanned the landscape |
| 16:50.42 | Dagmar | Ranged attacks + bushes == win |
| 16:50.59 | *** join/#wowuidev gain (~gain@unaffiliated/gain) |
| 16:51.14 | gain | hi, is there an addon to turn off sounds from other characters, like fishing or clearcasting |
| 16:51.25 | Dagmar | Nope |
| 16:51.29 | gain | damn |
| 16:51.35 | gain | something for fishing would be nice ;( |
| 16:51.39 | Dagmar | Ya don't really get that kind of granularity of control over sound |
| 16:51.39 | gain | so i can alt tab a bit |
| 16:51.42 | Dagmar | ...because people bot |
| 16:52.00 | gain | lol |
| 16:52.01 | gain | bot using sound? |
| 16:52.04 | Dagmar | yes. |
| 16:52.04 | gain | thats pretty difficult |
| 16:52.14 | gain | if you do something like that, you deserve to bot |
| 16:52.19 | Dagmar | No, you don't. |
| 16:52.21 | NightHawkTheSane | its not THAT difficult |
| 16:52.23 | Dagmar | You never deserve to bot. |
| 16:52.30 | Dagmar | I say this and I'm a hacker. |
| 16:52.33 | malreth | purl, bot gain |
| 16:52.44 | gain | to listen to a sound?!? |
| 16:52.49 | Dagmar | As far as I go is you maybe "deserve" to know yer hack works, and then you move on to something else |
| 16:52.54 | Dagmar | Botting is still cheating |
| 16:52.57 | gain | how can you program a bot to listen to a particular sound |
| 16:52.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Cargor (~quassel@dslb-088-070-056-191.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:52.59 | gain | do you know how hard that is |
| 16:53.04 | gain | it's not simply |
| 16:53.05 | NightHawkTheSane | not hard at all |
| 16:53.06 | gain | *simple |
| 16:53.10 | Dagmar | It's actually pretty damn easy. |
| 16:53.19 | Dagmar | Any other cheap-ass PC can do it |
| 16:53.33 | gain | find me a program that does that |
| 16:53.38 | Dagmar | Uh no. |
| 16:53.42 | gain | that programs an action based on sound |
| 16:54.13 | gain | not even program an action but able to listen to the output and decode if a certain sound is played |
| 16:54.48 | Dagmar | Yeah this is why I say maybe someone doign that "deserves" to know they came up with a correct solution, and you're nowhere near it |
| 16:54.50 | NightHawkTheSane | what, you mean like voice command software? the technology for which has been around for some 15 years? |
| 16:55.02 | bryno | i think the way you're suggesting it to be implemented would be way to complicated for an addon |
| 16:55.22 | NightHawkTheSane | bryno: addons can't bot, period. it would obviously have to be external to wow. |
| 16:55.58 | bryno | well, i wasn't thinking of the botting part |
| 16:56.26 | bryno | even if it were possibly, i wouldn't go toward analyzing the sound lol |
| 16:57.18 | *** join/#wowuidev akhe (~akhe@0x573bb4a2.ronqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 16:57.25 | NightHawkTheSane | *shrug* if you're going to go through the trouble to set up a bot, its probably not the hardest thing you could do |
| 16:59.28 | mikma | wobwork: http://www.geekologie.com/2010/06/google_maps_spots_australian_u.php |
| 17:00.56 | nevcairiel | haha, awesome |
| 17:01.50 | alestane | One of the classics: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=293 |
| 17:01.53 | Fisker | hey nevcairiel |
| 17:02.24 | *** join/#wowuidev isman (~drag@mlr78-3-88-162-68-235.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:02.30 | nevcairiel | alestane: his drawing has really improved alot over the years |
| 17:03.47 | alestane | Most artists will; take a look at http://www.levelmanga.com/ by Nate Swinehart for a really extreme example. |
| 17:04.23 | robokitty | stabs Fusker with a spork |
| 17:06.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Mikina (~632153a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.33.83.160) |
| 17:06.48 | Fisker | hey robokitty |
| 17:06.49 | Fisker | msn |
| 17:07.14 | Thunder_Child | going to sex it up Fisker? |
| 17:08.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Osagasu (~Creek@67-197-1-37.rh1.dyn.cm.comporium.net) |
| 17:10.58 | *** join/#wowuidev jacobeiting (~jacobeiti@2620:0:1b07:20:21b:63ff:fe91:7a21) |
| 17:11.22 | *** join/#wowuidev xanax` (~unknown@vno44-1-88-172-189-200.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:11.33 | xanax` | hello |
| 17:11.49 | zenzelezz | hey |
| 17:12.01 | xanax` | NEUGREKmlkjhgfdsq |
| 17:12.06 | xanax` | oops |
| 17:12.09 | xanax` | sorry |
| 17:12.13 | zenzelezz | we don't speak murloc |
| 17:12.17 | xanax` | lol |
| 17:12.28 | xanax` | wrong channel |
| 17:14.23 | Fisker | yeah Thunder_Child |
| 17:16.46 | xanax` | the more I learn lua and wow addon scripting, the more I like it :-) |
| 17:17.01 | xanax` | hard in the beginning.. now I see things clearer. |
| 17:17.59 | Fisker | man this was awesome |
| 17:18.02 | Fisker | Tank ninjapulled |
| 17:18.12 | Fisker | and i got aggro from autoattack |
| 17:18.23 | Fisker | that's 3 minutes of slack for me |
| 17:18.54 | zenzelezz | :) |
| 17:20.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@c-98-251-190-189.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 17:20.12 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 17:22.07 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar_atwork (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 17:28.37 | Lopeppeppy | I just stunned a professor by whipping out 50 feet of networking cable... *laugh* |
| 17:29.05 | *** join/#wowuidev MoonWitch (~Kelly@d51A4DB5F.access.telenet.be) |
| 17:31.24 | *** join/#wowuidev taroven (~taroven|C@HW-ESR1-208-102-8-69.fuse.net) |
| 17:31.45 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (~nuohep@89.222.156.36) |
| 17:32.50 | Lunessa | "50' Cat 5" - Deals no damage. Opponent is STUNNED. Especially effective if played by a female against male college professors. "Take that!" |
| 17:34.07 | Lopeppeppy | Yup. Stunned the bastard that I just had it in a drawer of my desk. |
| 17:34.45 | Lopeppeppy | And that I know my office has our own wireless base, that he could have lost connection to his department's base and not found ours. |
| 17:37.11 | Lunessa | Here we lock ports and require your mac to be known. Plug in an unknown/unauthorized device to a network cable and the port is disabled automatically until unlocked by the network admin. And he is not as ... forgiving as am I. |
| 17:39.29 | Shirik_ | Lopeppeppy: :) |
| 17:39.42 | Dashkal | If I was at a school with that policy, I'd be horribly tempted to be a bastard and plug a tablet into every port I saw... |
| 17:40.10 | Dashkal | Probably only a school. Brings out the worst in me for some reason |
| 17:41.37 | Lunessa | Dashkal: *nod* And we'd eventually hunt you down and break your fingers. But that's just me. |
| 17:42.01 | Adys | http://garfieldminusgarfield.net/post/683727298 |
| 17:42.20 | Dashkal | :P |
| 17:42.48 | Dashkal | At the school I was at. That would never happen. Their IT department 'Computer Resources' was amazingly inept. I expected more of a tech school |
| 17:43.29 | cog|work | people who leave ads in car windows should be ticketed for littering |
| 17:43.42 | Lunessa | Dashkal: We're pretty forgiving - but a few times that's been bad for us, so we're pretty draconian now. |
| 17:43.47 | Fisker | additional slack zenzelezz |
| 17:43.49 | Fisker | server crashed |
| 17:44.10 | *** join/#wowuidev daev` (~bleh@pool-72-86-116-158.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 17:44.29 | Fisker | aww |
| 17:44.31 | Fisker | server up again |
| 17:44.35 | Dashkal | Oh I was one of the annoying students when I realized how bad CR was. Nothing permanent, just annoying. Like installing linux on an unbootable machine (they just reghosted it back, same as they would to fix the damn thing in teh first place) |
| 17:47.56 | foxlit | # Don't look into the laser with your remaining eye. |
| 17:49.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Mihau (~alexia@69.73.16.202) |
| 17:50.14 | Kraps | Shirik_: you're avoiding me |
| 17:50.53 | Kraps | i r sad |
| 17:54.51 | Lunessa | Dashkal: Oh man, that would have resulted in all kinds of pain for you here. |
| 17:55.39 | Kraps | http://www.geekologie.com/2010/06/what_if_popular_websites_were.php |
| 18:02.07 | Dashkal | Lunessa: Well, probably not. You see, if I saw an it staff that wasn't useless, I wouldn't do that kind of crap. |
| 18:02.45 | Dashkal | I'd more likely just ignore the labs and do my work at home. |
| 18:03.20 | Kraps | Adys is a bot :o |
| 18:03.27 | Lunessa | Dashkal: *nod* |
| 18:03.35 | gain | bah i need to find a quite place to fish |
| 18:03.35 | Adys | so it seems |
| 18:03.39 | gain | so i can alt tab |
| 18:04.15 | Dashkal | Works for both of us. I get an unrestricted network, and oyu get one less twit messing with your systems :) |
| 18:05.33 | Lunessa | I'm glad I don't work in the labs. |
| 18:06.06 | cog|work | WTB motofroyo |
| 18:11.52 | Fisker | motorized frozen yoghurt? |
| 18:12.04 | olafski | a motorola phone with the latest android os? |
| 18:12.12 | olafski | or wasn't that called froyo |
| 18:12.49 | nevcairiel | but seriously, droidify froyo already |
| 18:13.27 | olafski | that would sound so odd without context |
| 18:13.38 | olafski | it still sounds odd to me.. |
| 18:13.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (~chatzilla@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 18:13.59 | nevcairiel | at least no-one is talking about cupcakes or donuts these days ;) |
| 18:14.11 | NightHawkTheSane | i could go for a donut. |
| 18:14.16 | Lunessa | or a cupcake |
| 18:14.20 | Fisker | or maybe a person trolling olafski ? |
| 18:14.39 | Kalroth | Fisker is a cupcake |
| 18:15.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 18:15.16 | Fisker | btw Kalroth |
| 18:15.23 | Fisker | did you read that ekstra bladet smeared me? |
| 18:15.35 | Fisker | http://ekstrabladet.dk/112/article1360380.ece :( |
| 18:15.42 | Kalroth | Yeah, I saw that, you pervert |
| 18:16.01 | xanax` | does wow resize blp images a bit before displaying them ? |
| 18:16.38 | cog|work | xanax`: the entire ui is normalized to 1024 pixels high and then UI Scale is applied |
| 18:16.43 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (~airtonix@unaffiliated/airtonix) |
| 18:16.49 | xanax` | good to know |
| 18:17.04 | cog|work | err 768 |
| 18:18.58 | cog|work | so you can never really count on pixel perfection |
| 18:19.22 | xanax` | :-< |
| 18:19.46 | nevcairiel | Well, you can use sub-pixel coordinates and the "perfect" ui scale |
| 18:19.49 | Fisker | i pixel perfected your mom |
| 18:20.00 | xanax` | ;-/ |
| 18:20.12 | xanax` | mine doesn't know what a pixel is.. |
| 18:20.28 | Lunessa | It puts the pixels on the screen or it gets deleted again. |
| 18:21.23 | cog|work | so i just have to reiterate for people who may not have been around at the time: 10% of all sharks are bioluminescent. THEY'RE EVOLVING FRIKKIN LASERS! |
| 18:21.41 | Lopeppeppy | I adore sharkopaths. |
| 18:21.47 | Lopeppeppy | shivers at Lunessa. |
| 18:22.03 | cog|work | opens up a bottle of chianti |
| 18:22.21 | Shirik_ | no Kraps I'm at work |
| 18:22.23 | Shirik_ | what's up? |
| 18:22.46 | Kraps | Shirik_: did you like aion? |
| 18:24.27 | Nechckn | what about sharkophiles, Lopeppeppy? |
| 18:25.15 | Adys | auth code 41414141 |
| 18:26.02 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 18:26.03 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 18:26.14 | Shirik_ | definitely Kraps |
| 18:26.17 | Shirik_ | however |
| 18:26.24 | Shirik_ | I also consistently tell people I don't recommend it |
| 18:26.31 | theorbtwo | Adys: My voice is my passport. Authorize me. |
| 18:26.33 | Shirik_ | it is a very different (what I call "asian grind mode") game |
| 18:26.45 | Shirik_ | you have to like that, and you also should have friends to play with |
| 18:27.25 | Kraps | Shirik_: i think they are trying to westernize the leveling though |
| 18:29.52 | Kraps | Shirik_: did you get some kind of "send the trial to a friend" thing? |
| 18:30.16 | batrick | Shirik_: chess?!!?!??!? |
| 18:30.17 | batrick | :D |
| 18:31.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (~Kaso@host86-146-75-34.range86-146.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:31.53 | DJJeff | am I an achievement whore yet? http://i49.tinypic.com/2ymg9zd.jpg (pic related) |
| 18:32.12 | nevcairiel | no |
| 18:32.25 | DJJeff | I love the tundra |
| 18:32.28 | DJJeff | I just got it |
| 18:32.34 | *** join/#wowuidev jacobeiting (~jacobeiti@2620:0:1b07:11:21b:63ff:fece:15c9) |
| 18:32.54 | cog|work | DJJeff: Lunessa has you beat ;) |
| 18:33.02 | cog|work | http://www.wowarmory.com/character-achievements.xml?r=Kirin+Tor&cn=Unkle&gn=Grounding+Totem |
| 18:33.04 | DJJeff | screenshot? |
| 18:33.41 | DJJeff | oh |
| 18:33.43 | DJJeff | nice |
| 18:33.45 | DJJeff | X_X |
| 18:33.50 | DJJeff | no time for PvP eh? |
| 18:34.08 | cog|work | he's not much of a PvPer... (hence the RP realm) |
| 18:34.27 | airtonix | satin gloves is the extent of pvp |
| 18:34.56 | Ackis | cog|work: check out my facebook for my latest post (very interesting IMO) |
| 18:35.02 | Ackis | and then look at http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/annepackrat/animal%20pics%203/1270626225828.jpg and go bwaaaa |
| 18:35.35 | Ackis | DJJeff: I think I have more achievements than you and I stopped playing last year |
| 18:35.42 | DJJeff | I am an addonwhore tho.... 70 addons X_X |
| 18:35.46 | cog|work | Ackis: saw that infographic yesterday :) |
| 18:35.54 | cog|work | DJJeff: that's nuthin... |
| 18:36.08 | cog|work | you're more like a floozy than a whore |
| 18:36.30 | DJJeff | I wasnt playing during most of burning crusade or I would have tons more achieves |
| 18:36.54 | cog|work | i was... and look at me ... >< http://www.wowarmory.com/character-achievements.xml?r=Kirin+Tor&cn=Cogwheel&gn=Grounding+Totem |
| 18:36.55 | Thunder_Child | i have about 200 addons |
| 18:37.20 | DJJeff | how many of those 200 addons do you have enabled |
| 18:37.24 | DJJeff | during game play |
| 18:37.30 | Thunder_Child | all but 20 or so |
| 18:37.42 | DJJeff | screenshot of your ui? |
| 18:37.51 | Thunder_Child | i should diable some that are char specific but i am lazy |
| 18:37.51 | DJJeff | if there is any ui left with that many addons |
| 18:37.54 | Thunder_Child | i dont have one |
| 18:38.01 | DJJeff | why dont you |
| 18:38.03 | DJJeff | have a SS |
| 18:38.12 | Thunder_Child | why should i? |
| 18:38.20 | DJJeff | its easy as pressing "print screen" then uploading to website |
| 18:38.26 | DJJeff | takes all of 5 min |
| 18:38.27 | DJJeff | max |
| 18:38.35 | cog|work | that's not an answer to the question |
| 18:38.38 | cog|work | :P |
| 18:38.48 | DJJeff | to show your 200 addons |
| 18:38.53 | DJJeff | and what they look like |
| 18:39.01 | Thunder_Child | you cant see all of them |
| 18:39.02 | DJJeff | I shouldnt have to explain that |
| 18:39.04 | cog|work | it's not like every single addon has to have something visible at every single moment |
| 18:39.13 | DJJeff | true |
| 18:39.16 | Thunder_Child | i would have to SS my addon folder for that |
| 18:39.28 | Thunder_Child | but my point is, i dont have the need to prove it |
| 18:39.33 | DJJeff | anyone can SS their "addon folder" |
| 18:39.41 | DJJeff | donest show how many you have running |
| 18:39.46 | DJJeff | during game play |
| 18:40.02 | DJJeff | I dont wanna see your addon folder I wanna see your UI |
| 18:40.27 | NightHawkTheSane | things that make me cry a little: When the guy who hired me is given a task to do some data population for me, and screws it up completely. >< |
| 18:40.30 | DJJeff | incase you use an addon that I wanna get/download and add to mine |
| 18:41.42 | airtonix | Fisker, your interface is bad. |
| 18:42.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@dsl4E5C0134.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 18:43.59 | Ackis | Thunder_Child: you cheat! most of your addons are libraries! |
| 18:44.39 | DJJeff | hehehehehe |
| 18:44.39 | Thunder_Child | Ackis: some of them are, yes |
| 18:44.49 | MoonWitch | I love you |
| 18:45.21 | MoonWitch | uhm yeah |
| 18:45.29 | MoonWitch | that wasn't supposed to go here |
| 18:45.36 | Fisker | what interface airtonix ? |
| 18:45.38 | Thunder_Child | really? |
| 18:45.41 | Thunder_Child | it sounds like you |
| 18:45.44 | Lunessa | MoonWitch: making someone's day? |
| 18:45.51 | MoonWitch | no |
| 18:45.56 | MoonWitch | returning the love |
| 18:46.09 | Thunder_Child | it was Cairenn wasnt it |
| 18:46.16 | MoonWitch | yes |
| 18:46.17 | krka | im in ur chatz, feelin teh lurv |
| 18:46.21 | Ackis | no it was Fisker |
| 18:46.22 | MoonWitch | it was Cairenn |
| 18:46.42 | durcyn | krka, the last time someone felt my lurv, i had to pay them $50 |
| 18:46.46 | Lunessa | No one loves Fisker. |
| 18:47.02 | Thunder_Child | DJJeff: http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f284/THUNDER__CHILD/UI.jpg |
| 18:47.09 | MoonWitch | I think Cairenn's husband must think I'm a wackjob lol |
| 18:47.17 | Thunder_Child | not just him |
| 18:47.51 | MoonWitch | you too Thunder_Child? |
| 18:48.04 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (~Miranda@237.17.189.109.customer.cdi.no) |
| 18:48.06 | Cairenn | MoonWitch: <3 |
| 18:48.13 | Thunder_Child | you are quite odd MoonWitch, but thats normal around here |
| 18:48.17 | Cairenn | MoonWitch: he's not here, to think anything |
| 18:48.32 | MoonWitch | Thunder_Child: I know :) Hence I like it and feel right at home. |
| 18:48.40 | malreth | Cairenn: Yes, I am. |
| 18:48.42 | MoonWitch | Cairenn: much <3 .. And he isn't here ;) |
| 18:48.49 | Cairenn | malreth: heh |
| 18:48.52 | NightHawkTheSane | thats why we keep Thunder_Child around, to make MoonWitch seem saner. |
| 18:48.58 | NightHawkTheSane | ;) |
| 18:49.04 | Cairenn | MoonWitch: *giggle* |
| 18:49.06 | Thunder_Child | glad i can help |
| 18:49.07 | MoonWitch | hey NightHawkTheSane :) You doing ok? |
| 18:49.27 | NightHawkTheSane | i'm at work, and behind on it, so not really, but meh. :) |
| 18:49.56 | Ackis | I'm eating strawberries and pineapple |
| 18:49.59 | Ackis | and grapes |
| 18:50.00 | Ackis | and melon |
| 18:50.27 | MoonWitch | wholewheats, corn, carrot, quorn |
| 18:50.28 | Lunessa | is hungry and wants a cheeseburger and fries. |
| 18:50.52 | Shirik_ | Kraps: I might have it floating around |
| 18:50.54 | Shirik_ | batrick: I'm at work |
| 18:51.27 | MoonWitch | alright -- alt tabbing - watching CSI and then setting up the lovely new laptop :D |
| 18:51.35 | batrick | Shirik_: so am i |
| 18:51.38 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: oh man that sounds delicious |
| 18:51.47 | NightHawkTheSane | maybe i'll get that for lunch |
| 18:51.53 | batrick | as if you work anyway |
| 18:51.58 | MoonWitch | cheeseburger and fries - and its a deal |
| 18:52.03 | batrick | we all know you enjoy thwarting the 4chan kiddies |
| 18:54.22 | Lunessa | I'm tempted to just put a sign on my door "Can't help you, sorry" then crank up Incubus and pound my head on the desk. |
| 18:55.16 | Ackis | I just realized I can see biowares office from my work window |
| 18:55.33 | airtonix | the significance of this revelation ? |
| 18:56.21 | Ackis | I was eating a grape and looking out said window |
| 18:56.29 | batrick | Ackis: which office? (location) |
| 18:56.30 | airtonix | a singular grape ? |
| 18:56.40 | Ackis | batrick: edmonton |
| 18:56.43 | batrick | oh |
| 18:56.47 | Ackis | airtonix: that's all that was in my mouth at the time |
| 18:57.19 | airtonix | i usually eat grapes in groups... |
| 18:57.45 | Lunessa | For the lulz - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnYlNgrxNag - I raid with these guys in 25. This is one of their 10-man. |
| 18:58.27 | Kraps | haha |
| 18:58.35 | Lunessa | We give the bear tank in the video crap all the time because he's always on Facebook during raids. |
| 18:59.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Gintaro (~Gintaro@cc1040670-a.gorre1.fr.home.nl) |
| 19:00.26 | airtonix | did you know eve online might be getting station exploration next patch ? |
| 19:00.42 | airtonix | they're working on letting you leave your ship |
| 19:00.56 | Ackis | sto > eve! |
| 19:01.03 | cog|work | nuh uh |
| 19:01.31 | cog|work | says without having played STO |
| 19:01.36 | airtonix | http://eve.estrale.com/index.php?topic=1651.0 |
| 19:01.44 | airtonix | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYI6-L8b7sg |
| 19:02.53 | airtonix | Star Traders Online ? |
| 19:03.07 | Ackis | Welcome Pardner! FrontierVille is a brand new game. Thanks for being one of our very first pioneers. We're experiencing some teethin' issues, but stay with us and we'll iron out the kinks. |
| 19:03.09 | Ackis | star trek online |
| 19:03.19 | airtonix | oh star trek. |
| 19:03.27 | airtonix | lol |
| 19:03.39 | nevcairiel | i played the beta, it was so fail, imho |
| 19:04.03 | airtonix | green busty babes can't be wrong |
| 19:05.14 | Ackis | it's a fun game, but I don't think I'll be playing past my free 30 days |
| 19:15.28 | p3lim | hm, are there alternate git-clients for windows? |
| 19:15.32 | p3lim | currently using mssysgit |
| 19:16.56 | Gnarfoz | I'm using http://www.syntevo.com/smartgit/ but that uses msysgit underneath anyway |
| 19:16.58 | Maldivia | no TortoiseGit ? |
| 19:17.34 | Gnarfoz | there's also GitCola |
| 19:17.57 | nevcairiel | i dont think anyone wrote a client that doesnt use msysgit under the hood |
| 19:18.00 | Kraps | Shirik_: |
| 19:18.17 | Maldivia | there's a C# implementation I think |
| 19:18.55 | Maldivia | yeah, Git# http://www.eqqon.com/index.php/GitSharp |
| 19:19.43 | nevcairiel | will be quite some time until it works properly |
| 19:19.48 | Gnarfoz | calling a C# implementation "native" is kind of awkward ;D |
| 19:20.15 | Maldivia | well, it's .Net native :) |
| 19:20.31 | Gnarfoz | they call it "windows native", that being my point :D |
| 19:20.43 | cog|work | .net is native to windows ;) |
| 19:20.50 | Gnarfoz | is not |
| 19:20.51 | cog|work | in the small N sense |
| 19:21.04 | cog|work | in the same way native americans are native to america |
| 19:21.34 | Thunder_Child | or that humans are native to earth |
| 19:21.41 | Gnarfoz | you sure about that? |
| 19:21.42 | Gnarfoz | :> |
| 19:21.43 | nevcairiel | jury is still out on that |
| 19:21.50 | Gnarfoz | so, nevcairiel |
| 19:21.53 | Thunder_Child | i knew i would get a response to that |
| 19:22.10 | Gnarfoz | why is mod_suexec broken? :\ |
| 19:22.13 | cog|work | i'm surprised i didn't, considering the native americans came from asia |
| 19:22.28 | nevcairiel | you just broke it Gnarfoz |
| 19:23.00 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: nah, it's been reportedly broken for a year or so, at least that's how old a bug report (which even includes a patch) is |
| 19:23.36 | Gnarfoz | *actually* I just mixed things up: it's mod_userdir that doesn't work with suexec present, not the other way around. (still not good) |
| 19:23.57 | nevcairiel | i dont use userdir |
| 19:24.06 | nevcairiel | i just use fcgid with suexec |
| 19:24.06 | Gnarfoz | meh |
| 19:24.30 | Gnarfoz | well, that part probably works alright... outside of mod_userdir dirs ;) |
| 19:24.53 | Thunder_Child | cog|work: do you concider yourself wherever your ancesters came from? |
| 19:25.56 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@d86-33-7-18.cust.tele2.at) |
| 19:26.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Sum_Wun (~sumwun@72.183.41.75) |
| 19:27.56 | jnwhiteh | Anyone here familiar with/play with LPEG? |
| 19:28.21 | Gnarfoz | never heard of it |
| 19:28.24 | Thunder_Child | you could have done familiar/play with |
| 19:28.43 | jnwhiteh | {familiar, play} with |
| 19:28.50 | Thunder_Child | see, saves you a with |
| 19:28.53 | Gnarfoz | "anyone play with" is bad grammar anyway |
| 19:28.56 | Kraps | neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerds |
| 19:29.07 | Thunder_Child | but you forgot the here |
| 19:29.16 | Thunder_Child | 'anyone here play with' |
| 19:29.38 | Gnarfoz | and the "with LPEG?", too, oh noes |
| 19:39.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@dsl4E5C0124.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 19:42.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Cide@hus110a.bobbnet.com) |
| 19:42.47 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 19:44.45 | *** join/#wowuidev xanax` (~unknown@vno44-1-88-172-189-200.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 19:44.46 | xanax` | re |
| 19:51.55 | xanax` | can i get rid of <layers></layers> ? |
| 19:52.04 | xanax` | or it will broke the addon ? |
| 19:53.07 | olafski | TIAS :-) |
| 19:53.31 | xanax` | tias ? oO |
| 19:54.31 | olafski | Try It And See |
| 19:54.38 | xanax` | ok |
| 19:55.10 | olafski | doesn't take long to try :) |
| 19:55.27 | Lunessa | grrrr... I tell people "You can't make any changes to Active Directory right now." "Well how come I can't change my password?" *HEADDESK* |
| 19:57.27 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 19:58.43 | kd3 | grr |
| 19:58.53 | kd3 | damned spammers are getting through gmail's filters |
| 19:59.08 | cbreak | tell them that their password is in ad |
| 19:59.32 | Gintaro | Lunessa, your own fault for thinking they know what AD is |
| 20:00.24 | Lunessa | Gintaro: Another sys admin |
| 20:00.29 | Gintaro | oh lol |
| 20:00.30 | Gintaro | fail |
| 20:00.44 | Gintaro | To buy Oblivion for €8.50 or not to buy |
| 20:02.17 | *** join/#wowuidev jacobeiting (~jacobeiti@2620:0:1b07:11:21b:63ff:fece:15c9) |
| 20:02.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@dsl4E5C06E5.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 20:03.41 | Lunessa | Hell, for all the work I'm getting done, I might as well have stayed home. |
| 20:05.00 | kd3 | oh wow. a sc2 ad in primetime? |
| 20:05.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Stew-a (~Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 20:05.22 | Thunder_Child | kd3: it will make enough money |
| 20:10.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 20:13.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Gintaro (~Gintaro@cc1040670-a.gorre1.fr.home.nl) |
| 20:14.04 | teetow | oh, putricide... will you never learn? |
| 20:15.07 | alestane | Someone, somwhere, will jump up in their seat and demand, "Why didn't they TELL me there was going to be a StarCraft II? Holy F*&%ing Shit!", kd3. |
| 20:15.21 | kd3 | I expect so |
| 20:15.36 | olafski | the people who were ~20 when they played SC1 and left the internet to lead normal lives since then ;) |
| 20:16.23 | cbreak | "left the internet", "normal lives"... can not parse |
| 20:16.40 | olafski | man the new mortal kombat trailer looks cool |
| 20:16.42 | olafski | I can't wait |
| 20:16.56 | olafski | I _know_ I'll suck at the game but it'll be great anyway |
| 20:17.08 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix_ (~airtonix@unaffiliated/airtonix) |
| 20:17.27 | Thunder_Child | no one leaves the internet |
| 20:18.49 | Lunessa | As I've said in more than one place, "I don't know how I lived before the Internet." |
| 20:19.15 | Thunder_Child | Lunessa: you didnt |
| 20:20.05 | Lunessa | Thunder_Child: :P I was a "commercial internet pioneer" - and my university didn't have much in the way of internet access. |
| 20:20.12 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: outside. |
| 20:20.33 | NightHawkTheSane | at least, thats how i lived before the internet. |
| 20:21.25 | Lunessa | NightHawkTheSane: Yeah, as a child (pre-teen years) I spent lots of time outside. Until I discovered RPGs and then started spending my time split between the two things. |
| 20:21.25 | Thunder_Child | i didnt have the internet till highschool |
| 20:21.25 | Thunder_Child | ish |
| 20:22.51 | Seerah|away | our computer used telnet |
| 20:22.59 | Seerah | at home |
| 20:23.37 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: *cry* |
| 20:23.51 | Ackis | http://www.pawnation.com/2010/06/10/kitten-wanders-onto-soccer-field-melts-thousands-of-hearts-in-t/ |
| 20:24.15 | Gnarfoz | [2010-06-10 22:15:03]: uid: (1000/smallbrain) gid: (1000/smallbrain) cmd: php-fcgi-wrapper |
| 20:24.18 | Gnarfoz | [2010-06-10 22:15:03]: command not in docroot (/var/www/fcgi/php5-www-data/php-fcgi-wrapper) |
| 20:24.21 | Gnarfoz | wryyyyyy |
| 20:25.33 | nevcairiel | because suexec is rather pissy |
| 20:25.42 | nevcairiel | cant just run stuff from anywhere! |
| 20:26.14 | Gnarfoz | obviously, but... that is the docroot |
| 20:26.21 | Gnarfoz | (/var/www that is) |
| 20:27.15 | Gnarfoz | I'm getting the feeling that the solution to all this is removing any mention of UserDir support in mod_suexec's documentation and mark the two as incompatible and conflicting. |
| 20:27.46 | alestane | *snrk* http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=336 |
| 20:28.38 | nevcairiel | I barely recognize the people in the old comics |
| 20:29.41 | Gnarfoz | qc is one of the comics where the drawing style has evolved rather drastically over time |
| 20:30.01 | Gnarfoz | I mean, compare that to xkcd. |
| 20:30.17 | nevcairiel | xkcd is as evolved as it will ever get |
| 20:31.27 | haste | alestane: http://carnivore.mirror.waffleimages.com/files/3f/3f936a0949f2420ff6315363b1bd9a25a55e1b40.gif came to mind |
| 20:32.25 | kd3 | bibi, fix your mail server |
| 20:36.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 20:37.16 | *** join/#wowuidev bleeter (~bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 20:37.21 | Thunder_Child | kd3: did you not notice whats going on with mmo |
| 20:37.49 | kd3 | meh, that's tangential. I know they're moving to vb, but patch emails have been bouncing for a few weeks now |
| 20:38.04 | zenzelezz | patch emails? |
| 20:38.12 | Thunder_Child | his diff files |
| 20:39.30 | zenzelezz | ah |
| 20:45.17 | *** join/#wowuidev nevcairiel (~nev@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/nevcairiel) |
| 20:45.32 | p3lim | how hard can it be to find a msn client that has an a buddy list and conversation windows, and nothing else? |
| 20:45.54 | haste | pretty hard |
| 20:46.32 | p3lim | almost tempted to write one on my own |
| 20:46.58 | haste | only way to get what you want |
| 20:47.40 | alestane | Lunessa: Chuckle at Marten's litany at the end: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=351 |
| 20:47.40 | p3lim | true |
| 20:47.46 | teetow | I quite like bitlbee, actually |
| 20:48.01 | teetow | get everything in one window |
| 20:48.07 | nevcairiel | also lol at msn, unsafest protocol ever, by protocol spec, not client implementations =P |
| 20:48.14 | Lunessa | alestane: lulz |
| 20:50.09 | haste | it's also a protocol extended into oblivion |
| 20:50.28 | p3lim | nevcairiel: yeah, but my friends are using it |
| 20:50.50 | nevcairiel | get better friends :) |
| 20:50.53 | haste | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:50.57 | p3lim | :) |
| 20:51.03 | nevcairiel | like haste |
| 20:51.05 | nevcairiel | make him your friend |
| 20:51.10 | nevcairiel | he wants it too! |
| 20:51.11 | haste | lies |
| 20:52.19 | p3lim | but until I get a batch of new friends, I need to create/find a client. |
| 20:52.29 | p3lim | now, what language should I write it in.. |
| 20:52.46 | haste | J |
| 20:52.58 | NightHawkTheSane | FORTRAN |
| 20:53.08 | teetow | BEFUNGE |
| 20:53.19 | nevcairiel | for a protocol like that, use cobol! |
| 20:53.51 | teetow | or, to be truly platform independent and future-proof, use C#.NET |
| 20:53.52 | NightHawkTheSane | code it all inside an excell spreadsheet macro |
| 20:54.13 | nevcairiel | hey look, teetow made a funneh there :d |
| 20:54.25 | miica | p3lim: empathy :3 |
| 20:54.37 | nevcairiel | i just use pidgin, i'm happy with it |
| 20:54.48 | teetow | what? no, I'm serious. Microsoft has fully embraced the open-source mentality. Their file formats are even an ISO standard now! |
| 20:54.51 | kd3 | grrs at empathy |
| 20:54.52 | miica | i am happy with empathu |
| 20:55.09 | miica | y* :3 |
| 20:55.20 | nevcairiel | teetow: something thats supposed to be platform independent should at least have official support for more then one platform |
| 20:55.20 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah, pidgin/adium works well enough for me |
| 20:55.33 | miica | lol pidgin |
| 20:55.35 | teetow | nevcairiel: I wasn't serious =) |
| 20:55.47 | p3lim | miica: thanks :p |
| 20:55.52 | NightHawkTheSane | teetow: your mom's an iso standard. :P |
| 20:56.01 | teetow | this is true |
| 20:56.18 | Cide | more like |
| 20:56.19 | miica | is there milf standard? O,o |
| 20:56.21 | teetow | haha |
| 20:56.22 | Cide | your mom's platform dependent |
| 20:56.47 | NightHawkTheSane | ~Cide++ |
| 20:57.19 | Cide | did I just pass 10? |
| 20:57.22 | Cide | ~karma Cide |
| 20:57.22 | purl | cide has karma of 11 |
| 20:57.29 | Ackis | http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/09/utah.firing.squad/index.html?hpt=C1 <-- interview with a man who was on a firing squad "I've shot squirrels I've felt worse about" |
| 20:57.29 | Cide | oh, guess not |
| 20:57.32 | nevcairiel | way over already |
| 20:57.51 | Cide | 10% is lots! |
| 20:58.15 | NightHawkTheSane | 10% of your mom is lots! |
| 20:58.34 | nevcairiel | they still use firing squads these days? |
| 20:58.43 | miica | i am so happy i made one linux user more <3 |
| 20:59.11 | Cide | I was gonna link you the sniper quote |
| 20:59.13 | Cide | turns out it's false |
| 20:59.17 | Cide | http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/recoil.asp |
| 20:59.19 | NightHawkTheSane | i made a linux user once. then it rained and the paper mache melted. |
| 20:59.35 | Ackis | nevcairiel: "Utah lawmakers outlawed the firing squad in 2004" and "Firing squads are still in use in other countries; according to the Capital Punishment UK website, they are steadily declining. The site says there were 30 such executions worldwide in 2007 -- 15 in Afghanistan, one each in Belarus, Ethiopia, Indonesia and North Korea, three in Somalia and ei |
| 20:59.36 | Dagmar | I tell people to just buy a fuckin' mac |
| 20:59.51 | Dagmar | "WHen you have a mac, you are no longer my problem." |
| 20:59.57 | nevcairiel | no surprise by the countries listed there |
| 20:59.59 | Ackis | rest of quote: "and eight in Yemen. Some provinces in China are also thought to use the method." |
| 21:00.29 | Dagmar | Ackis: That and bo-staff wielding grizzly bears |
| 21:01.29 | Dagmar | Any day now the UN is going to come out and say they feel that that is a cruel and unusual way to die... beaten to death by bears. |
| 21:02.32 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (smcn@c-174-52-104-121.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:05.52 | NightHawkTheSane | i dunno, it's hard to argue that being beaten to death by a bear wielding a staff isn't cruel OR unusual. |
| 21:07.19 | Ackis | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYrR6Lukxt8 |
| 21:07.22 | Ackis | lol cat stuck in window |
| 21:10.28 | Dagmar | <Ackis> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYrR6Lukxt8 |
| 21:10.29 | Fisker | Ackis |
| 21:10.30 | Dagmar | bleh |
| 21:10.31 | Fisker | i hate macfags |
| 21:10.37 | Dagmar | Still getting the hang of this new netbook |
| 21:10.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Gotai (~Gotai@ip54546435.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl) |
| 21:16.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@dsl4E5C0580.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 21:16.53 | bleeter | http://yfrog.com/5oys1g |
| 21:23.27 | alestane | lua> nil > 30 |
| 21:23.28 | lua_bot | alestane: luabot:1: attempt to compare number with nil |
| 21:25.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (~Lopeppepp@cpe-67-252-44-53.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 21:25.24 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 21:27.39 | *** join/#wowuidev mitchnull (~mitchnull@catv3EC944A1.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 21:30.48 | NightHawkTheSane | I have a bad feeling I'm going to be working this weekend. >< |
| 21:31.17 | Lopeppeppy | I'm already getting that feeling about next weekend. Rawr. |
| 21:32.06 | alestane | When does the college make you work weekends? |
| 21:32.36 | Lopeppeppy | Whenever there is a special event that needs special handholding. Orientation, graduation, reunion, horse show... |
| 21:32.47 | Thunder_Child | bq |
| 21:32.49 | Thunder_Child | q |
| 21:32.53 | Lopeppeppy | It's horse show weekend next week and they ain't got no stinkin' results posting format set up yet. |
| 21:33.24 | Thunder_Child | keys need to have a velocity checker |
| 21:33.35 | Lopeppeppy | Keys need to be sharper so I can kill more people with them. |
| 21:33.57 | *** join/#wowuidev wthpr0 (~pr0@c-a00e72d5.85-111-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 21:34.21 | Lunessa | http://www.marketwatch.com/story/seven-arts-announces-vincenzo-natali-to-direct-neuromancer-2010-06-10?reflink=MW_news_stmp |
| 21:34.31 | Thunder_Child | pull a wasted then Lopeppeppy |
| 21:34.39 | Lopeppeppy | wasted? |
| 21:34.57 | industrial | woe oh woe; I want a new cool middle-age-swords-and-wizards-and-prolly-elves-n-dwarves MMO but there aren't any. |
| 21:35.05 | industrial | (if there are, linkylinky!) |
| 21:35.35 | Thunder_Child | Lopeppeppy: i meant wanted |
| 21:36.00 | alestane | Not sure what I think about Vincenzo Natali (didn't really like the Splice trailer), but I like the idea of a Neuromancer film. |
| 21:36.05 | industrial | Unrelated question: I'm sick of staring at my cp operation to copy some mp3's to my mp3 player. cp supposedly prints info to stdout when you give it 'SIGINFO'. How do I do that? |
| 21:36.29 | industrial | haste: ^ |
| 21:37.00 | Thunder_Child | Lopeppeppy: http://fawny.org/blog/images/Wanted-keyboard-edited-650.jpg |
| 21:37.10 | durcyn | did you uuh, try kill -SIGINFO |
| 21:37.31 | foxlit | "On Linux, SIGINFO is a synonym for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIGPWR. |
| 21:37.31 | foxlit | " |
| 21:37.38 | Lunessa | alestane: He was a storyboard artist on Johnny Mnemonic. And most of his movies look like CRAP to me. So I'm thinking he'll destroy another thing I love. |
| 21:37.47 | foxlit | "SIGPWR is the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_(computing) sent to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_program when the system experiences a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_failure" |
| 21:37.56 | foxlit | (@#$@#@ you, rich text copy/paste) |
| 21:38.30 | alestane | Johnny Mnemonic was an acceptable (if lukewarm) movie, although it bore little resemblance to the story. |
| 21:38.55 | Lopeppeppy | I. I should watch that movie tonight. Not doing much else. |
| 21:39.18 | alestane | Wasn't that Keanu Reeves? |
| 21:39.54 | Lunessa | It had him yes. |
| 21:40.14 | Kraps | http://notalwaysright.com/womens-studies-not-studying-women/4787 |
| 21:40.37 | p3lim | hm, with git, if I have embedded something (from git) in my dir, is it possible to get it included in changelogs/clone etc? |
| 21:40.39 | foxlit | industrial: try Control-T |
| 21:40.53 | foxlit | in general, you can look it up using stty -a |
| 21:41.03 | foxlit | cchars: ... status = ^T |
| 21:41.24 | alestane | If you're just trying to fill up time, Peppy, there's always "Nick of Time" with Johnny Depp. I thought that was a much better movie. |
| 21:42.00 | alestane | Anyway, I must to elsewhere now! |
| 21:42.26 | cog|work | ~lart Kirin Tor |
| 21:42.26 | purl | takes out a cattle prod and gives Kirin Tor a good jolt |
| 21:42.55 | *** join/#wowuidev taroven|Rawr (~taroven|C@HW-ESR1-208-102-8-69.fuse.net) |
| 21:43.04 | Kraps | cog|work: isnt it up now? |
| 21:43.22 | cog|work | it says it is, but it won't let people log in |
| 21:43.26 | Lopeppeppy | I would require to actually own a movie before I could watch it.... derp. :) |
| 21:43.36 | cog|work | it goes to Logging into game server and then back to the realm selection screen |
| 21:43.47 | Lopeppeppy | Down down down, baby. |
| 21:44.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Mikina (~632153a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.33.83.160) |
| 21:44.06 | cog|work | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25171935530&sid=1 |
| 21:44.19 | cog|work | ohai Mikina |
| 21:45.30 | Mikina | 'ello :) |
| 21:45.43 | Mikina | Curry is cooking :D |
| 21:45.47 | cog|work | mmmmmmmm |
| 21:46.51 | Kraps | ~seen shirik |
| 21:46.54 | purl | shirik is currently on #norganna #wowuidev #wowace. Has said a total of 45 messages. Is idling for 7h 1m 50s, last said: 'lol'. |
| 21:47.04 | Kraps | ~seen shirik_ |
| 21:47.05 | purl | shirik_ is currently on #wowuidev (6h 15m 7s). Has said a total of 17 messages. Is idling for 2h 56m 11s, last said: 'batrick: I'm at work'. |
| 21:47.05 | cog|work | ~seen Shirik_ |
| 21:47.06 | purl | shirik_ is currently on #wowuidev (6h 15m 8s). Has said a total of 17 messages. Is idling for 2h 56m 12s, last said: 'batrick: I'm at work'. |
| 21:47.17 | Kraps | jinx |
| 21:47.26 | Cide | he's at work, stop harassing him! |
| 21:47.39 | Kraps | i cant! |
| 21:47.46 | batrick | thanks for the ping purl! |
| 21:47.50 | batrick | kicks purl. |
| 21:47.57 | cog|work | chuckles |
| 21:49.04 | cog|work | kicks Kirin Tor |
| 21:49.35 | Kraps | just discovered post-rock |
| 21:50.28 | Arrowmaster|BDay | yawns |
| 21:51.38 | cog|work | happy |BDay |
| 21:53.17 | Lopeppeppy | Well, happy birthday Arrowmaster! |
| 21:54.22 | cog|work | hugs his droid |
| 21:54.32 | cog|work | decided to get my data plan back now that our loan is modified :) |
| 21:56.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (n_a@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 21:56.51 | Fisker | I LOLD |
| 21:57.06 | cog|work | Fisker Fisker around a bit with a large Fisker |
| 21:59.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (~Tuller@c-69-143-56-163.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 22:02.05 | Fisker | cog|work |
| 22:02.07 | Fisker | i lol'd |
| 22:02.14 | cog|work | i'm sorry for you |
| 22:02.16 | Fisker | you probably didn't expect that did you? |
| 22:02.18 | Fisker | why? |
| 22:02.28 | cog|work | you probably didn't expect THAT did you? |
| 22:02.54 | Fisker | i didn't |
| 22:04.19 | malreth | FFFFFFFFFFFFFFF |
| 22:04.40 | Fisker | yeah malreth i hear that |
| 22:04.40 | malreth | The Adobe Flash Player 10.1 installer is a .app for OS X instead of a .pkg |
| 22:04.44 | Fisker | OWNT |
| 22:04.54 | Fisker | but first i get passed for a TF2 halo |
| 22:04.56 | malreth | FUCK YOU IN THE EAR, ADOBE |
| 22:05.11 | Fisker | now i can't get the earbuds because imma (not) a macfag that can't computer |
| 22:06.45 | miica | adobe sucks! |
| 22:07.05 | Cide | I bet they did that intentionally |
| 22:07.08 | Cide | to fuck with mac users |
| 22:07.19 | Kraps | wtf is Fisker saying? |
| 22:07.21 | Cide | i.e. steve jobs' love children |
| 22:07.55 | malreth | except it doesn't fuck with the user... it fucking tweaks the sys admins |
| 22:08.14 | miica | steve <3<3 |
| 22:08.21 | foxlit | is 10.1 out, anyway? |
| 22:08.28 | malreth | just got released, foxlit |
| 22:08.35 | Fisker | Kraps |
| 22:08.36 | foxlit | Has the GPU goodies? |
| 22:08.38 | Fisker | TF2 update |
| 22:08.41 | Fisker | mac users get a free hat |
| 22:08.42 | foxlit | Or am I stuck with that preview candidate? |
| 22:08.45 | Fisker | pc users can go suck it |
| 22:08.49 | malreth | foxlit: for Windows, yes. |
| 22:08.57 | Fisker | http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/64220 |
| 22:09.23 | malreth | turns out the .pkg is embedded inside the .app bundle... hopefully that deploys properly |
| 22:09.36 | malreth | the postflight is a binary executable... i'm pessimistic |
| 22:09.41 | Kraps | Fisker: lolhats |
| 22:09.49 | foxlit | .pkgs are a mess. |
| 22:10.13 | malreth | foxlit: hush you. if .pkgs were a woman i would ravish her body with that of mine own |
| 22:10.16 | foxlit | I don't know whether admins get nice tools to handle them, but the developer side certainly side. |
| 22:10.24 | foxlit | s/side./suck./ |
| 22:10.27 | foxlit | s |
| 22:10.56 | malreth | foxlit: http://github.com/unixorn/luggage |
| 22:11.31 | NightHawkTheSane | goes on a minor killing spree |
| 22:11.58 | foxlit | malreth: I tried making an installer that gives the user a choice of installing something in their own home directory, or in the system directory. |
| 22:12.01 | foxlit | FAILED HORRIBLY. |
| 22:12.23 | malreth | foxlit: .pkgs intentionally cannot install to home directories. it's by design |
| 22:12.36 | foxlit | malreth: It failed in other ways. |
| 22:12.52 | foxlit | There does seem to be a by-design option of "Install for me only!" |
| 22:13.16 | *** part/#wowuidev mitchnull (~mitchnull@catv3EC944A1.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 22:13.25 | malreth | ah, well i don't use the PackageMaker gui. there might be |
| 22:14.27 | Antiarc | Any of ya'll using Android phones? |
| 22:14.32 | malreth | generally, as a sys admin, if i'm trying to mass deploy something to user directories across hundreds of computers, i've probably done something wrong and need to rethink my approach |
| 22:14.35 | Antiarc | I just published my first app |
| 22:14.35 | NightHawkTheSane | Antiarc: yes |
| 22:14.43 | NightHawkTheSane | :o what is it? |
| 22:14.52 | Kraps | Dinnerbone, Adys, and Sunshine rule. |
| 22:15.03 | Kraps | bibi sats so |
| 22:15.15 | Dagmar | malreth: Yeah, easier to just send out an email with an attachment saying "CLICK HERE TO INSTALLING THE FREE CANDY!" |
| 22:15.16 | Antiarc | It's an implementation of the Battle.net authenticator algorithm, except it supports multiple authenticators and gives you portable secrets |
| 22:15.21 | foxlit | malreth: As a software developer, I want to give non-sysadmin users an option of actually using my program. |
| 22:15.22 | Antiarc | http://qrcode.kaywa.com/img.php?s=8&d=market%3A%2F%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dpname%3Acom.chrisheald.flexauth |
| 22:15.24 | Lunessa | malreth: correct sir. And if it's something users are allowed to install themselves, then why the fuck are they bother the sys admin? |
| 22:16.09 | foxlit | Somewhat orthogonal viewpoints. |
| 22:16.10 | malreth | foxlit: why not just a .dmg and have the user drag-drop? what kind of 'thing' are you trying to install to the user's home folder? |
| 22:16.21 | Dagmar | AntiArc: What's that URL in non-qrcode? |
| 22:16.27 | foxlit | malreth: quicklook plug-ins. |
| 22:16.41 | foxlit | [which can apparently crash Finder -- not mine, though.] |
| 22:16.44 | Antiarc | market://search?q=pname:com.chrisheald.flexauth |
| 22:16.49 | Antiarc | Or just search for FlexAuth |
| 22:17.00 | Dagmar | Antiarc: Android then? |
| 22:17.09 | Antiarc | Dagmar: Yes |
| 22:17.14 | malreth | hmm... |
| 22:17.17 | Dagmar | Argh. |
| 22:17.19 | Antiarc | Which is why I asked if you all had Android phones :P |
| 22:18.01 | NightHawkTheSane | Antiarc: so If i'm understanding this right, I could effectively 'install' the secret for my keyfob authenticator in this, and use both interchangably? |
| 22:18.21 | Dagmar | I wonder how much they paid for patent licencing |
| 22:18.22 | Kraps | Adys: will the homepage default to http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/ ? |
| 22:18.27 | foxlit | NightHawkTheSane: it seems unlikely you could ever get your keyfob's secret. |
| 22:18.44 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: yeah, probably.. :( |
| 22:18.53 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: More likely you'd gen a new secret and feed Blizz the seed number |
| 22:19.01 | Fisker | what it is Antiarc ? |
| 22:19.10 | Adys | Kraps: i dont know, we dont have a front cache atm |
| 22:19.12 | *** join/#wowuidev jacobeiting (~jacobeiti@2620:0:1b07:11:21b:63ff:fece:15c9) |
| 22:19.30 | Kraps | its doing that foe me right now |
| 22:19.50 | Antiarc | Fisker: It's a replacement for the Blizzard mobile authenticator, that lets you generate multiple passwords off of multiple secrets, and makes the secret portable so you can generate codes off of other platforms, too |
| 22:19.58 | Fisker | in b4 DMCA? |
| 22:20.12 | Antiarc | NightHawkTheSane: the keyfob is a different algorithm |
| 22:20.26 | Antiarc | Fisker: It's just an implementation of an RFC :P |
| 22:20.31 | Antiarc | And a web services consumer |
| 22:21.03 | Dagmar | I see Verisign and UCSD in the credits for that RFC... I wonder if that means they've given it the nod for relatively minor commercial use |
| 22:21.40 | Dagmar | Ah! I see SHA... |
| 22:22.00 | Kraps | Adys: why the decision to move? |
| 22:22.09 | Antiarc | Yeah, it's basically an HMAC SHA1 digest of the secret, with the time as an input |
| 22:22.15 | Antiarc | The digest key, rather |
| 22:22.27 | Fisker | because smf sucks? :3 |
| 22:22.30 | Antiarc | Then you modulo that by 10^%digits and there's your auth code |
| 22:22.39 | Kraps | its FREE |
| 22:22.42 | Adys | Kraps, SMF does not support sites of the scale of mmo-champion |
| 22:22.46 | Dagmar | Antiarc: Yeah remember how I was saying awhile back that the concept of how the hard tokens work is pretty damn elegant, and RSA deserved a patent for that |
| 22:22.58 | Dagmar | Using SHA dodges the patent issue |
| 22:23.00 | Dagmar | Daddy like |
| 22:23.18 | Dagmar | I may go hack up my port knocker a bit and add this |
| 22:23.26 | Kraps | Adys: seemed to run ok, was the backend having issues? |
| 22:23.29 | Dagmar | That would make it worth releasing |
| 22:24.03 | Adys | Kraps, it ran ok when we didn't have 40 thousand guests hitting on the database articles and all |
| 22:24.13 | Adys | which is what happened for wotlk, and what will happen for cata |
| 22:24.16 | Dagmar | Prolly explains why Verisign was involved in the RFC rather than suing someone |
| 22:24.24 | Kraps | mmm |
| 22:24.42 | Dagmar | This just makes the case that their stuff is hard to crack pretty well |
| 22:24.45 | foxlit | And here was I thinking that SMF is a forum. |
| 22:24.58 | Dagmar | Adys: But... teh CLOUDZ!~ |
| 22:25.17 | Dagmar | teh clouds have imfinite powah |
| 22:26.07 | Adys | Dagmar: SMF supports a limited amount of tubes to connect to the clouds |
| 22:26.23 | Kalroth | o y didnt u just say so |
| 22:26.41 | Kalroth | my friendlist is empty addys :( |
| 22:26.58 | Dagmar | I guess there's no point in suggesting a squid accellerator |
| 22:27.34 | Kraps | its not a big truck y'know |
| 22:27.53 | Dagmar | Squid doesn't run on trucks, afaik |
| 22:28.06 | Dagmar | ...otherwise maybe FedEx could roll out a new "five minute" delivery service |
| 22:28.10 | Adys | Dagmar, it's using varnish, and thanks but we got very capable sysadmins :P |
| 22:28.13 | Fisker | btw Antiarc |
| 22:28.22 | Fisker | Blizzard should give us the ability to use 2 authenticators |
| 22:28.22 | Fisker | :( |
| 22:28.38 | Antiarc | Fisker: Why |
| 22:28.52 | Dagmar | Adys: Hey with the number of times I've seen people *not* using a frontend cache and their Oracle load is through the roof... it's just horrifying |
| 22:28.58 | Antiarc | Use FlexAuth, you can generate authentication codes from anywhere you want, giving you infinity authenticators! |
| 22:28.59 | Fisker | so i can still use my fob without having to use it with the wow remote on my android :P |
| 22:29.33 | Dagmar | Fisker: I'm not certain but I think you can bind multiple authenticators |
| 22:29.45 | Antiarc | pretty sure you can't |
| 22:29.49 | Adys | Dagmar, it's just lacking permanent disk care |
| 22:29.56 | foxlit | nah, that's a bit shit |
| 22:29.56 | Fisker | you can't Dagmar |
| 22:30.00 | Adys | we're all going to bed right now so its gonna run sloppy for the night |
| 22:30.01 | Dagmar | Ah bummer |
| 22:30.11 | foxlit | If you could bind multiple authenticators, their security goes down the drain a bit |
| 22:30.12 | Dagmar | I know it's doable...I guess they didn't implement it |
| 22:30.17 | Fisker | yeah foxlit |
| 22:30.22 | Dagmar | foxlit: Not particularly |
| 22:30.24 | Fisker | should only be (1) extra authenticator |
| 22:30.24 | foxlit | Since you'll never notice that someone attached another and is slowly draining your bank alts. |
| 22:30.33 | Fisker | and need authenticator outputs for the first one as well |
| 22:30.37 | Fisker | from* |
| 22:30.51 | Dagmar | foxlit: Nah, you just require hard token auth to add new tokens |
| 22:31.02 | foxlit | Dagmar: suppose I were to steal your hard token. |
| 22:31.05 | foxlit | Just once. |
| 22:31.15 | Dagmar | Why not steal all the gold then |
| 22:31.19 | Fisker | then you have a bigger issue |
| 22:31.20 | Fisker | Besides |
| 22:31.22 | foxlit | Because that's trivially detectable. |
| 22:31.24 | Fisker | just e-mail the user |
| 22:31.38 | foxlit | Attaching another and using your account while you aren't looking is sneakier. |
| 22:31.57 | Dagmar | I hadda set up SecureID logins on a system for a bunch of doctors back in '98 |
| 22:32.24 | Dagmar | "What if I lose my token!" was one of those questions we kept getting hit with by people who don't read |
| 22:33.07 | Dagmar | A: "You pay another fifteen bucks for a second token to keep in a damn safe, you git" |
| 22:33.14 | Adys | Dagmar: local authenticators ftw |
| 22:33.19 | malreth | foxlit: hmm... i think i just made a .pkg that worked... |
| 22:33.55 | malreth | it installed a quicklook plugin to my home directory |
| 22:34.20 | foxlit | wonderful. Now, same installer, based on user input, should also be able to install it in a system directory. |
| 22:34.47 | malreth | testing that now |
| 22:35.03 | malreth | yep... worked |
| 22:35.21 | foxlit | wonderful. Zip it up somewhere? |
| 22:37.26 | malreth | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/198096/QuickLookCSV.pkg.zip |
| 22:37.35 | malreth | dunno if i got the permissions right... haven't tested that |
| 22:38.03 | malreth | foxlit: also, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/198096/QuickLookCSV.pkg.zip |
| 22:38.05 | malreth | wait |
| 22:38.13 | malreth | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/198096/blah.pmdoc.zip |
| 22:38.14 | malreth | there |
| 22:38.27 | malreth | the project file is more useful |
| 22:39.05 | foxlit | malreth: requires auth to install at home? |
| 22:39.16 | foxlit | Right: system.install.root.user |
| 22:39.21 | Kraps | malreth: y r u hacking me |
| 22:39.47 | malreth | you could try disabling the require admin auth checkbox in the project and rebuilding it |
| 22:39.59 | malreth | it threw a warning when i left it disabled |
| 22:40.15 | malreth | anyways, happy hacking |
| 22:40.25 | foxlit | so this won't install to home unless you're an admin. And I presume if I disable the require admin |
| 22:40.29 | foxlit | it won't install to system, ever. |
| 22:40.38 | malreth | i dunno... didn't test that |
| 22:40.49 | *** part/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 22:40.53 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 22:41.02 | malreth | actually, i think it'll ask for admin privs in that event |
| 22:41.08 | *** join/#wowuidev jacobeiting (~jacobeiti@2620:0:1b07:11:21b:63ff:fece:15c9) |
| 22:41.26 | malreth | so, yeah... i'd try disabling the require admin auth check and all that |
| 22:41.30 | malreth | i gotta run... bus to catch |
| 22:41.42 | *** join/#wowuidev malreth_ (~triti@wireless-128-62-89-122.public.utexas.edu) |
| 22:42.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (~Tuller@c-69-143-56-163.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 22:44.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (~Tuller@c-69-143-56-163.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 22:44.50 | foxlit | Hm, doesn't quite do everything, but does more than I thought it would. |
| 22:46.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Guardix-lagtop (~Martin@188.178.100.163) |
| 22:50.03 | *** join/#wowuidev SinusPi (sinus@178-36-44-31.adsl.inetia.pl) |
| 22:51.37 | Kraps | http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l3s5oxJKDz1qzy0wko1_500.png |
| 22:52.21 | Fisker | slaps Kraps around a bit with a large trout |
| 22:52.29 | *** join/#wowuidev robokitty (~robotusch@50A2E67F.flatrate.dk) |
| 22:53.37 | Fisker | trolld Kraps |
| 22:53.38 | Fisker | hey robokitty |
| 22:56.17 | Adys | For the record, i dont remember who asked for it |
| 22:56.36 | Adys | But the original author just allowed me to open source this |
| 22:56.42 | Adys | http://github.com/Adys/python-bna |
| 22:57.13 | Adys | it's the library i use for local bnet authenticator creation and token requests |
| 22:59.31 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 23:01.57 | foxlit | Hm, no alestane. Pity. |
| 23:02.28 | Lopeppeppy | he went to be alestaney. |
| 23:02.34 | Lopeppeppy | it's this habit of his. |
| 23:02.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphon (~servers@gryphonllc.net) |
| 23:02.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Archarodim (HydraIRC@lev92-4-88-164-134-95.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 23:03.11 | *** join/#wowuidev foohey (~foohey@server.foohey.net) |
| 23:03.57 | Fisker | 4 minutes foxlit |
| 23:04.55 | Fisker | 2 minutes foxlit |
| 23:05.49 | Fisker | 1 minute foxlit |
| 23:06.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Stew-a (~Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 23:06.12 | foxlit | "Fisker explosion in 30... 15... 10... Have a nice day." |
| 23:06.35 | Fisker | No that wasn't what i was counting down to |
| 23:06.36 | Fisker | nooooo |
| 23:07.41 | foxlit | Do I get GUIDs from addon messages? |
| 23:07.44 | Thunder_Child | bye Fisker |
| 23:07.53 | *** join/#wowuidev robokitty (~robotusch@50A2E67F.flatrate.dk) |
| 23:09.41 | foxlit | I'm contemplating a three-button static popup |
| 23:09.50 | foxlit | "XYZ would like to send you ABC" |
| 23:10.00 | foxlit | "Accept/Ignore XYZ/Reject" |
| 23:10.26 | foxlit | Wonder if "Accept/Ignore/Cancel" button labels communicate that clearly enough |
| 23:11.43 | Fisker | who's XYZ? |
| 23:11.48 | Fisker | You can't have allcaps names |
| 23:12.38 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: i think they do |
| 23:12.59 | NightHawkTheSane | well.. |
| 23:13.12 | NightHawkTheSane | what's the difference between 'ignore' and 'cancel' |
| 23:13.43 | foxlit | "Ignore" is "Make this Fisker stop bugging me!" |
| 23:13.51 | foxlit | "Cancel" is "No, I don't want to accept this one." |
| 23:14.03 | Lunessa | foxlit: You need buttons that say "Accept / Deny / Destroy other User with FIRE!!" |
| 23:14.11 | NightHawkTheSane | Maybe "Ignore User" or some similar language, instead of just Ignore. |
| 23:14.40 | foxlit | "Ignore Player" |
| 23:15.17 | foxlit | Perhaps I should just bite the bullet and use my own localizations rather than global strings. |
| 23:16.30 | NightHawkTheSane | I think Accept/Ignore/Cancel is pretty clear, and most people would get it, but it's definitely not as clear as something like "Accept/Ignore Player/Decline |
| 23:16.31 | Gintaro | What happened to the normal tickbox |
| 23:16.32 | Fisker | this time Mac won't be able to stop me |
| 23:16.33 | NightHawkTheSane | " |
| 23:16.43 | Gintaro | "Always do this from now on" |
| 23:18.40 | Fisker | i might just kill Steam |
| 23:18.47 | foxlit | Gintaro: I don't particularly want to auto-accept, and the framework is a bit inflexible. |
| 23:25.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Osagasu (~Creek@67-197-1-37.rh1.dyn.cm.comporium.net) |
| 23:28.02 | Fisker | man |
| 23:28.08 | Fisker | mac doesn't like VM's |
| 23:28.10 | Fisker | and vice versa |
| 23:28.54 | cog|away | BAI FISKER |
| 23:29.09 | Fisker | slaps cog|away around a bit with a large trout |
| 23:38.59 | *** join/#wowuidev `-FISKER_Q (n_a@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 23:39.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (n_a@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 23:39.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (~Tuller@c-69-143-56-163.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 23:43.32 | *** join/#wowuidev robokitty (~robotusch@50A2E67F.flatrate.dk) |
| 23:45.16 | Lunessa | ciao. |
| 23:45.43 | Fisker | i will not be stopped |
| 23:45.47 | Cide | antistation |
| 23:47.50 | Fisker | mac is crazy |
| 23:49.59 | Cide | more like macraz |
| 23:50.03 | Cide | damnit |
| 23:50.04 | Cide | more like macrazy |
| 23:51.02 | NightHawkTheSane | ~Cide-- |
| 23:51.20 | Cide | dude. I was at eleven! |
| 23:51.32 | NightHawkTheSane | and then you made a terrible joke. and failed at it as well. :P |
| 23:53.03 | Cide | :( |
| 23:53.04 | Cide | fine |
| 23:53.24 | Cide | I am now ~9% less awesome |
| 23:53.56 | NightHawkTheSane | see! you got made 10% MORE awesome, and then 9% LESS awesome, so you're still a net 1% more awesome than before! :D |
| 23:54.08 | Cide | yeah |
| 23:54.16 | Cide | I'm not matharded |
| 23:54.26 | NightHawkTheSane | hehe ;) |
| 23:54.28 | Cide | stupid h messing things up ^ |
| 23:54.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (~muffins@c-69-143-56-163.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 23:54.38 | *** join/#wowuidev jacobeiting (~jacobeiti@2620:0:1b07:11:21b:63ff:fece:15c9) |
| 23:55.05 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 23:58.25 | *** part/#wowuidev gain (~gain@unaffiliated/gain) |
