| 00:00.46 | Dagmar | Corrodias2: One doesn't "learn" COBOL. One just slightly reformats the all-caps crap emails sent by the old crones in accounting. |
| 00:01.19 | Corrodias2 | heheh |
| 00:02.02 | foxlit | I wonder if they ever plan to strip the drm from AC2 |
| 00:02.24 | foxlit | In a sort of "Hey, it's no longer profitable for us to keep those servers up" move. |
| 00:02.47 | Dagmar | foxlit: I doubt it |
| 00:02.49 | Tentacled | sounds like Clipper to me :> |
| 00:03.11 | Dagmar | The basic idea is that if the game doesn't prosper and their jobs go away, so does your game |
| 00:03.34 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (~theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 00:03.41 | Dagmar | It's not "profitable" to keep those servers up *now* |
| 00:03.43 | Fisker | lol |
| 00:03.44 | Fisker | pretty awesome |
| 00:03.56 | Fisker | if you have the authenticator on it automatically uses it |
| 00:04.48 | foxlit | Fisker: meaning your authenticator on a mobile device is entirely vulnerable if someone manages to trojan/exploit their way there. |
| 00:04.53 | foxlit | I'm disappointed. |
| 00:04.57 | Dagmar | I have to find something else that runs through a java midlet before I try hackin one onto my phone |
| 00:05.54 | Dagmar | foxlit: GOod thing no one's trying to run WoW on their iPhone |
| 00:06.17 | Dagmar | ...or jailbreaking their phone |
| 00:06.32 | Dagmar | Cuz you know, unsigned binaries could be bad |
| 00:06.41 | Lopeppeppy | foxlit said trojan! *gasp* |
| 00:07.31 | foxlit | Thing is, with android, it's totally viable |
| 00:07.44 | foxlit | "Hey guys, download this cool app I made to farm the AH for you!" |
| 00:07.45 | Jerub | you're reasonably safe if they trojan your phone and get your authenticator secret |
| 00:07.49 | *** join/#wowuidev jacobeiting (~jacobeiti@192.42.249.130) |
| 00:07.50 | Jerub | because you don't have your password there too |
| 00:07.57 | Dagmar | Jerub: REally. |
| 00:08.09 | Dagmar | Jerub: So... what say you, now that they have the AH appliet |
| 00:08.10 | Jerub | unless you have the AH app |
| 00:08.18 | Jerub | in which case you're absolutely fucked. |
| 00:08.27 | Dagmar | Both platforms are pretty vulnerable |
| 00:08.51 | Dagmar | The problem being that the signing database used to approve/deny apps execution isn't under your control |
| 00:08.57 | foxlit | There's an extra hoop involved with app store approval, but that may or may not pose a problem. |
| 00:09.39 | Dagmar | foxlit: It took them awhile to spot that chinese company selling trojans to peple |
| 00:09.46 | foxlit | I wonder if it at least checks whether the app requesting secret numbers is signed by the same entity. |
| 00:10.02 | Dagmar | I get the feeling their approval process doesn't involve anything like decompiling the app or looking at the source |
| 00:10.26 | cbreak | it involves running the app, looking at the symbols it exposes |
| 00:10.29 | cbreak | the linker infos |
| 00:10.49 | Jerub | i felt a little safer after hearing a complaint from a friend that it's impossible to instlal an app that can back up an android phone because they're not allowed to access each other's data willy-nilly. |
| 00:10.50 | cbreak | I can almost guarantee you that they will not spend the time required to analyze the source code |
| 00:10.56 | Dagmar | Oh good. That means they'll spot people who've linked their app to libStealYerDataandPix.so |
| 00:11.08 | cbreak | because then the approval process would take weeks, not days. |
| 00:11.19 | Jerub | so uh |
| 00:11.22 | cbreak | they do that for "Private API" |
| 00:11.24 | Jerub | where's the android app for the AH? |
| 00:11.45 | foxlit | it's integrated into the armory app on the iThing. |
| 00:11.51 | Dagmar | Jerub: It's also somewhat not an "app's" job to backup your phone |
| 00:12.12 | Dagmar | That's an OS-level task sort of meaning admin-hat required. |
| 00:12.59 | Jerub | Dagmar: okay, sure, you say that. but android has no drm managing pc software that you have to use to manage your phone. |
| 00:13.16 | Jerub | Dagmar: so uh. the way you manage the phone is with apps.. which can't backup each other.... |
| 00:14.25 | Dagmar | No, the way you manage a backup of the entire phone is to use something that can access all the phones data at once, or make each app do it themselves, or go ahead and poke a hole in the side of the sandbox with a mechanism by which a crafty app can gain elevated privs |
| 00:15.24 | Thunder_Child | "[17:14:39] [Y] [Kozy]: [Orcish] HA HA NO A N A L N l G G A" >.< |
| 00:15.26 | Dagmar | Security models are a bitch and no amount of DRM is really going to protect you much until you're the one holding the keys |
| 00:16.02 | Jerub | Dagmar: I don't understand what you're saying or why you're saying it. |
| 00:16.58 | *** join/#wowuidev L4x4t0r (~dada@AMontsouris-153-1-48-175.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 00:17.00 | Kraps | http://www.wow.com/2007/09/17/blizzard-disbands-extreme-erotic-roleplaying-guild/ lol |
| 00:17.07 | Dagmar | Im saying the issue of one app having problems backing up the whole phone isn't a serious problem, and that neither Android nor Apple are really keeping teh evils out with the DRM, although Android's a bit more honest about it |
| 00:17.56 | Jerub | Dagmar: okay, well, in context, I was saying that I felt safer because i heard this complaint. |
| 00:18.16 | cbreak | the iPhone tries to not run unsigned apps |
| 00:18.19 | Dagmar | Kraps: "The bottom line is: We're allowed to do what we do on any server we please and no one can do anything about it." |
| 00:18.21 | Dagmar | HAHAHAHAHAH |
| 00:18.25 | Dagmar | No |
| 00:20.07 | Dagmar | I'm thinking there's a fairly reasonable chance that a whole lot of data got socked away to hand over to the FBI when they disbanded that guild |
| 00:20.27 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 00:21.18 | Dagmar | One does not say to a company that probably has at least five million minors playing "We can and will engage in inappropriate relations and probable stalking of minors and there's nothing you can do about it." |
| 00:21.31 | Dagmar | ...because the FBI will set them straight about that presently. |
| 00:27.41 | Fisker | i want sleep |
| 00:27.44 | Fisker | what should i do? |
| 00:27.58 | Lopeppeppy | eat more pie |
| 00:28.08 | Fisker | i don't have any |
| 00:28.14 | Fisker | i also hate pie |
| 00:28.26 | Dagmar | Find a 15lb sledge hammer and hit yourself on the head with it, real hard... like they do in the cartoons. |
| 00:28.28 | Lopeppeppy | That's the exact problem, Fisker. Fix it. |
| 00:28.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Wella (~5ec028a9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.192.40.169) |
| 00:29.06 | Wella | Anyone available to answer a nooby question? |
| 00:29.12 | Fisker | i wish you could have 2 authenticators on one account :( |
| 00:29.19 | Lopeppeppy | Just ask, Wella, if anyone can help, they will. |
| 00:29.26 | Wella | K |
| 00:29.44 | Gnarrfoz | Dagmar watches too many cartoons... and movies with FBI agents in them, apparently |
| 00:29.46 | Wella | In WoWWiki's event list I can't find the name of the event for when the player kills a mob... does this exist? |
| 00:30.17 | Dagmar | Gnarrfoz: No actually I'm real sure there's some statutes bein violated |
| 00:30.17 | Wella | i.e. Killing Blow on an NPC |
| 00:30.39 | Lopeppeppy | wella, try wowprogramming.com, and let's go see... |
| 00:30.42 | Dagmar | Gnarfozz: If it's one thing the FBI can really get behind on wasting money with, it's tracking down child predators |
| 00:31.01 | Gnarrfoz | Wella: UNIT_DIED and either damage or spell damage events with anything but 0 for "overkill" |
| 00:31.54 | Wella | Er ok thanks |
| 00:32.04 | Dagmar | Gnarfozz: That article Kraps linked notes that after being disbanded, they merely reformed under a new name. How do you think a news outlet like say, FOX would frame that information? |
| 00:32.16 | Gnarrfoz | what weird chanmode is set on #wowwiki that gives me this stupid "can't change nick while banned" message. :\ |
| 00:32.26 | Dagmar | ...especially considering that FOX apparently thinks Wikipedia is a hotbed of child pornography |
| 00:32.30 | Gnarrfoz | Dagmar: Fox? A news outlet? |
| 00:33.16 | Lopeppeppy | Thank you, Gnarrfoz. I'm not a great searcher for API functions, takes me a while. :) |
| 00:33.46 | Nechckn | Gnarrfoz it's something new with the change that Freenode made. Basically muted unless you are authed. |
| 00:34.05 | Gnarrfoz | Nechckn: I thought those show up in the banlist as q~ something? |
| 00:34.28 | Gnarrfoz | meh, /mode #wowwiki q |
| 00:34.37 | Nechckn | not sure on that, only know that was what helped get someone past it before. |
| 00:34.51 | Gnarrfoz | reveals $~a, which of course resolves on SANE irc networks to +R |
| 00:34.56 | Gnarrfoz | anyway |
| 00:35.04 | Nechckn | lol, true. |
| 00:35.13 | Gnarrfoz | time to add my reconnect-nick to my nickserv account, I thought I already did that |
| 00:35.16 | Jerub | Gnarrfoz: no one ever thought that dancer was sane. |
| 00:35.30 | Gnarrfoz | Jerub: I didn't claim that |
| 00:35.39 | Jerub | also ,there's no standard for this at all, you're just seeing something that's not the same as what you're used to. |
| 00:35.58 | Gnarrfoz | I'm seeing something I don't know any IRC client handles well |
| 00:36.07 | Shirik | OH |
| 00:36.07 | Shirik | oh |
| 00:36.11 | Fisker | hey Shirik |
| 00:36.13 | Shirik | I have fun stuff ffor you all |
| 00:36.14 | Fisker | your sons dog |
| 00:36.18 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 00:36.24 | Fisker | can i have a moment of your time? |
| 00:36.29 | Gnarrfoz | or does yours have a feature to show a channel's "squelch list" (or whatever an appropriate name would be) |
| 00:36.32 | Fisker | it's regarding your sons dog |
| 00:36.38 | Dagmar | Gnarrfoz: It gave you the freetext associated with the message... |
| 00:36.38 | Shirik | http://www.boeing.com/Features/2010/06/bds_feat_secc_video_06_07_10.html |
| 00:36.54 | Gnarrfoz | Dagmar: "it" what? |
| 00:37.04 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 00:37.05 | Nechckn | Fisker at least use new trollinations. |
| 00:37.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Gnarfoz (smallbrain@WoWUIDev/WowAce/Gnarfoz) |
| 00:37.27 | Dagmar | Gnarrfoz: Yer client |
| 00:37.32 | Nechckn | Cause... the doing o' the sons dog is old.. =) |
| 00:37.41 | Fisker | i will keep Shiriking you Shirik |
| 00:37.46 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: I don't know what you're talking about. |
| 00:37.46 | Jerub | people write their irc clients fo rthe servers they connect to, and vice versa. |
| 00:37.55 | Jerub | if people followed the spec, nothing would work :/ |
| 00:38.03 | Gnarfoz | Jerub: I know zero people who "wrote their irc client" themselves |
| 00:38.06 | Jerub | irssi handles freenode fine :) |
| 00:38.08 | Dagmar | "I'm seeing something I don't know any IRC client handles well" |
| 00:38.12 | Wella | SHIIIIRIKYOUKEN |
| 00:38.17 | Jerub | Gnarfoz: i wrote one, i just don't use it. |
| 00:38.26 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: context, mister |
| 00:38.58 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: my client showed me what the server told me, the server told me I can't change nicks while BANNED which I am not |
| 00:39.01 | Jerub | Gnarfoz: also, a good friend of mine wrote the VMS irc client. ;) |
| 00:39.12 | Gnarfoz | Jerub: relevance, your honor |
| 00:39.16 | Dagmar | Shirik: I take that to mean that we will be able to "thank" you for the autonomously operating hunter-killer bots when Skynet takes oevr |
| 00:39.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (~Kandoko@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 00:39.29 | Nechckn | Eesh, you get the idea of what Gnarfoz means.. at least I do. |
| 00:39.35 | Dagmar | Jerub: Ask him why he likes ping |
| 00:39.36 | Jerub | Gnarfoz: relevence is i know a little more than zero about irc clients ;) |
| 00:39.47 | Shirik | yes Dagmar |
| 00:39.54 | Dagmar | Gnarfox: Your client did it's job then |
| 00:40.05 | Shirik | this thing can be launched from a missile, submarine, plane, whatever the hell you want |
| 00:40.16 | Shirik | making it the perfect offspring for skynet systems |
| 00:40.29 | Kraps | oh its back! http://www.wow.com/2010/06/08/old-school-wow-patch-0-7/ |
| 00:40.35 | Dagmar | Jerub: Sadly, I quit using VMS IRC chat client |
| 00:40.44 | Dagmar | it got me disconnected *constantly* |
| 00:40.49 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: your IRC client however seems to fail at nick completion |
| 00:40.49 | Nechckn | Just as long as no silly human intervention is needed, Shirik. =) |
| 00:41.06 | Dagmar | Gnarfoz: No, I have it turned off for a reason |
| 00:41.08 | Jerub | Dagmar: heheheheh |
| 00:41.21 | Dagmar | Jerub: I used raw telnet to "take care of business" back then because of that |
| 00:41.30 | Gnarfoz | Gnarfoz: and while my client maybe did it's job, the end result is the same: confusion, anger, wasted time |
| 00:42.12 | Gnarfoz | especially time that could have been used for sleep, which I am apparently in dire need of, talking to myself and all... ;D |
| 00:43.54 | Gnarrfoz | grouped nicks expire separately. yay. :) |
| 00:52.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Linera (~chatzilla@adsl-66-140-58-84.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 00:52.05 | Linera | hello |
| 00:52.33 | Linera | Anyone know which image is used for the health and mana bars on target frames? |
| 00:56.25 | Jerub | hahahaha |
| 00:56.36 | Jerub | druid feral talent named "Nom Nom Nom" |
| 00:56.44 | Linera | I guess no one then :( |
| 00:56.58 | Gnarfoz | !api portrait |
| 00:56.58 | lua_bot | Found 6 possible results for 'portrait': UNIT_PORTRAIT_UPDATE, SetLootPortrait, SetBagPortraitTexture, SetInventoryPortraitTexture, SetPortraitToTexture, SetPortraitTexture |
| 00:57.44 | Gnarfoz | if none of those fit directly, at least the first one should be a solid search term for either google or wowprogramming.com |
| 00:57.54 | Dagmar | Kraps: Oh wait... I see the date there was 2007. If that's the thing I think it was, yes the FBI did take an interest |
| 00:58.08 | Linera | I'm looking for the graphic that is used on it |
| 00:59.19 | Dagmar | Linera: Any particular reason? |
| 00:59.29 | Linera | so i can use it |
| 00:59.56 | Dagmar | You could always just draw your own artwork |
| 01:00.26 | Dagmar | ...or just mash the printscreen key while in the game. |
| 01:00.59 | Linera | facepalm |
| 01:01.08 | Dagmar | Oh. Hehe |
| 01:01.13 | Linera | I see you don't want to actually help then |
| 01:01.19 | Dagmar | S'okay, stuff like that slips past everyone now and again |
| 01:02.21 | Dagmar | No, I don't care to sit here and explain the answer to the next logical question, and the next one after that, and the next one after that, until we see that you're doing something dim and/or unethical |
| 01:02.22 | Linera | all i asked was what image is being used on the health and mana bars |
| 01:02.48 | Linera | not for anything else |
| 01:02.54 | Dagmar | "The standard Blizzard bar image" |
| 01:03.12 | Linera | and that is???? |
| 01:03.15 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~alestane@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 01:03.15 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 01:03.33 | Dagmar | l-o-o-o-ong? |
| 01:03.35 | Cide | huh |
| 01:03.44 | Cide | did they ruin the zoom tool in photoshop cs5? |
| 01:03.51 | Linera | okay fine, don't tell me |
| 01:04.13 | alestane | Sorry, wasn't here when you asked. |
| 01:04.14 | Linera | i see that its too hard to simply tell me what i need to know |
| 01:04.23 | Dagmar | img0005.jpg then |
| 01:05.02 | Linera | don't be a smart ass |
| 01:05.02 | Dagmar | S'what it's named here. |
| 01:05.02 | sylvanaar | wow |
| 01:05.14 | Gnarfoz | Linera: if you didn't notice by now, your question is kind of imprecise. |
| 01:05.22 | Linera | not really |
| 01:05.25 | Gnarfoz | yes, really. |
| 01:05.26 | Linera | its simple |
| 01:05.31 | Linera | all i asked was what image is being used on the health and mana bars |
| 01:05.35 | Gnarfoz | image? |
| 01:05.38 | Gnarfoz | what image |
| 01:05.45 | Dagmar | Cide: Maybe check that you didn't tell it "fill with random crap" as a rescale alg. somehow |
| 01:05.48 | Linera | yes, as in a graphic image |
| 01:05.50 | alestane | You mean the bar texture? |
| 01:05.56 | Gnarfoz | are you talking about the statusbar texture, the portrait, the background, what exactly? |
| 01:06.06 | Cide | seems like they removed the ability to drag a box and make it zoom in on that area |
| 01:06.15 | Dagmar | OMG you're supposed to just tell her, not make her answer a bunch of questions about it |
| 01:06.15 | Cide | oh nvm |
| 01:06.26 | Cide | unchecking "scrubby zoom" fixed that |
| 01:06.30 | Linera | the character frames, where else would you see a health bar. |
| 01:06.39 | Dagmar | Linera: All of the above. |
| 01:06.51 | Dagmar | It's all the same texture. |
| 01:06.55 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: don't have as much assholeyness inside me as you ;) |
| 01:07.17 | Dagmar | Gnarfoz: I was hoping for an explanation of WTF she was after so I could tell her osmething useful. That'll teach ME to try to be helpful. |
| 01:07.26 | Gnarfoz | Linera: you're going from vague to "encompassing whole things" |
| 01:07.36 | Linera | health bar is only in one place. it shows the current hp of you or your target, pet, or party member |
| 01:07.38 | Dagmar | I'll limit my altruim to making sure to keep enough graves dug in advance. |
| 01:07.40 | Gnarfoz | the target frame consists of multiple parts |
| 01:07.53 | Thunder_Child | you see health bars on nameplates |
| 01:07.55 | Thunder_Child | as well |
| 01:08.03 | Thunder_Child | and mouseover tooltips |
| 01:08.04 | sylvanaar | try Interface\TargetingFrame\UI-StatusBar |
| 01:08.06 | alestane | Also, what are you looking for? A usable image file? A path to use in other add-on frames? |
| 01:08.10 | Gnarfoz | Thunder_Child: that part was specified, s/he was talking about target frames |
| 01:08.23 | Dagmar | sylvanaar: You just elected yourself for explaining where that is on her hard drive |
| 01:08.25 | Thunder_Child | Gnarfoz: "<Linera> the character frames, where else would you see a health bar." |
| 01:08.28 | sylvanaar | no |
| 01:08.31 | Gnarfoz | Thunder_Child: earlier. |
| 01:08.36 | Thunder_Child | Gnarfoz: i know |
| 01:08.40 | Linera | i just need the damn image blizzard used |
| 01:08.48 | Linera | how hard is that to tell me |
| 01:08.54 | Thunder_Child | quite it would seem |
| 01:09.03 | sylvanaar | i told you |
| 01:09.04 | Dagmar | How hard is it to explain nuclear mechanics to a chimpanzee... |
| 01:09.12 | alestane | http://wowprogramming.com/utils/xmlbrowser/live/FrameXML/PlayerFrame.xml -- search for "HealthBar". You'll find it in short order. |
| 01:09.54 | sylvanaar | ~framexml |
| 01:09.55 | purl | Official: (Mac) http://ftp.blizzard.com/pub/WoW/other/AddOnKit.dmg, (Win) http://ftp.blizzard.com/pub/WoW/other/AddOnKit.zip. Compare: http://wowprogramming.com/utils/xmlbrowser |
| 01:10.10 | sylvanaar | i love you purl |
| 01:10.27 | sylvanaar | ~botsnack |
| 01:10.27 | purl | sylvanaar: aw, gee |
| 01:10.34 | alestane | Link is still down, sylvanaar. |
| 01:10.41 | Thunder_Child | thats not creepy or anything sylvanaar |
| 01:11.02 | Linera | alestane, it doesn't say |
| 01:11.11 | alestane | It does. |
| 01:11.32 | sylvanaar | [21:07:51] <sylvanaar> try Interface\TargetingFrame\UI-StatusBar |
| 01:11.41 | alestane | There's an element that starts "<StatusBar name="PlayerFrameHealthBar" inherits="TextStatusBar">" |
| 01:11.47 | Gnarfoz | (why do I get the feeling s/he would be at a loss as to what to do with the .blp file s/he would get by using the UI kit?) |
| 01:12.20 | sylvanaar | well, somewhere someone has already extracted all that stuff |
| 01:12.22 | Dagmar | Gnarfoz: Hence my being a complete asshole by trying to ask more useful questions of this person |
| 01:12.36 | Linera | it doesn't give me an image name |
| 01:12.39 | sylvanaar | like wowwiki used to have it all extracted |
| 01:12.50 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: I tried the same route - just without being all snarky. ;p |
| 01:13.00 | Gnarfoz | Linera: Interface\TargetingFrame\UI-StatusBar <-- that IS the image name. |
| 01:13.01 | Dagmar | I wasn't being snarky until now |
| 01:13.28 | Dagmar | I fail to see how taking a screenshot of it is that damn hard |
| 01:13.35 | Linera | there is no folder in the mpq called interface |
| 01:13.35 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: because you can't re-use it? |
| 01:13.53 | Seerah | Linera: actually, it does give you an image name. Look for the line that says BarTexture. And lose the attitude. You come in here asking for help, you need to give direct questions, be polite, and don't bite the hand that feeds you. |
| 01:14.01 | Dagmar | Sure you can. Just about any image editor can snatch a slice of that scrawny thing back out |
| 01:14.26 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: and that'll look the same. because it's fitted *behind* a mask that has a cutout for that bar. |
| 01:14.29 | alestane | Specifically, it says so on line 399. |
| 01:14.56 | Gnarfoz | he's going the right route alright, wanting to use the original is just fine. |
| 01:15.01 | Dagmar | Gnarfoz: All that means is that someone has to stop using MSPaint for their artwork and try Gimp or Photoshop |
| 01:15.09 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: bs |
| 01:15.20 | eidolarr | yeah |
| 01:15.22 | eidolarr | bullshit |
| 01:15.44 | Dagmar | ...but they wanted the image, not the cutout. |
| 01:15.52 | eidolarr | he wanted the texture |
| 01:15.55 | eidolarr | be helpful |
| 01:16.00 | Seerah | guys... ^^ |
| 01:17.10 | Gnarfoz | it's kind of not helpful that the addonkit link is down =\ |
| 01:17.19 | Dagmar | I'm sure that someone unaware that there's more than just a bmp stuffed in there will get right on using that in their own addon |
| 01:17.28 | sylvanaar | thats true Gnarfoz |
| 01:17.35 | Seerah | http://wowprogramming.com/utils/artbrowser |
| 01:17.47 | sylvanaar | see there you go |
| 01:18.22 | Gnarfoz | Seerah: nifty |
| 01:18.35 | Shirik | hrm |
| 01:18.37 | Shirik | vim has spoiled me |
| 01:18.48 | Shirik | I just typed G into IRC and got confused when I didn't scroll to the bottom |
| 01:18.49 | sylvanaar | http://wowprogramming.com/utils/artbrowser/TargetingFrame/UI-StatusBar.png |
| 01:18.51 | sylvanaar | nice |
| 01:18.57 | sylvanaar | all that for a grey bar |
| 01:19.01 | Cide | Shirik, nice |
| 01:19.03 | Gnarfoz | Shirik: vimperator for Firefox and you're all set |
| 01:19.06 | Cide | if only irc could do what vim can do |
| 01:19.09 | Gnarfoz | sylvanaar: idd |
| 01:19.34 | sylvanaar | thats a nice resource though jnwhiteh |
| 01:19.36 | Shirik | after working 8 hours a day with a vim interface for 3 weeks straight |
| 01:19.40 | Shirik | it's like |
| 01:19.42 | Gnarfoz | Shirik: I wonder if vimperator + xulrunner + ...I don't recall that XUL irc client's name |
| 01:19.57 | Shirik | my native language is vim commands now |
| 01:20.01 | Gnarfoz | but I guess xulrunner doesn't support addons that way :D |
| 01:20.11 | Seerah | Shirik: how do you say "hello, how are you today?" |
| 01:20.32 | Gnarfoz | iHello, how are you today?<ESC> ;p |
| 01:20.34 | Shirik | ggiHello, how are you today?<esc>:wq |
| 01:21.02 | Jerub | Ihaxxed<esc>yy100pZZ |
| 01:21.03 | Cide | I got into a bad habit of typing :wq! |
| 01:21.09 | Gnarfoz | Jerub: hehe |
| 01:21.16 | Cide | I stopped abruptly when I once missed typing the 'w' |
| 01:21.24 | Shirik | what does :wq! even mean |
| 01:21.26 | Shirik | what is there to override? |
| 01:21.29 | Dagmar | For awhile there Gmail supported a number of vim keystrokes |
| 01:21.30 | Cide | write and then force quit! |
| 01:21.38 | Shirik | but what is to override? |
| 01:21.41 | Cide | nothing |
| 01:21.41 | Jerub | Dagmar: they're still there. you just have to go turn them on |
| 01:21.46 | eidolarr | where? |
| 01:21.47 | Shirik | I've never had a case where I need to force :wq |
| 01:21.49 | Jerub | I use ZZ |
| 01:21.53 | Jerub | instead of :wq |
| 01:21.53 | Cide | me neither |
| 01:21.55 | Cide | hence bad habit |
| 01:21.56 | Dagmar | Shirik: It asking you some annoying questiosn about whether or not to overwrite an existing file |
| 01:22.08 | Nechckn | I resemble that habbit, Cide |
| 01:22.24 | Dagmar | ...or attempt to overwrite a read-only file because you own it and you can still write whatever you damn well please to it |
| 01:22.30 | Gnarfoz | yeah, open a new file and try saving it with a name that already exists |
| 01:22.51 | Nechckn | It depends where, though... as noted, it can be evil if you miss the w =) |
| 01:22.52 | Shirik | yeah cide that just sounds like asking for trouble |
| 01:22.56 | Cide | yep |
| 01:22.59 | Shirik | I only use ! when I know I have to |
| 01:23.12 | eidolarr | I have been meaning to learn vim's supposedly excellent keybindings so that i can master viper-mode |
| 01:23.17 | Gnarfoz | however, that's an example for :wq! filename, not just :wq! |
| 01:23.33 | Cide | my problem with vim though |
| 01:23.34 | Shirik | I guess if someone changed the file while you were editing it |
| 01:23.40 | Shirik | would that be detected? |
| 01:23.48 | Cide | is that I have my right hand on jkl; instead of hjkl |
| 01:23.55 | Shirik | that would pop up while you were editing it though |
| 01:24.00 | Cide | and I can't seem to change those key binds |
| 01:24.06 | Shirik | oh |
| 01:24.10 | Shirik | I actually still use the arrow keys / |
| 01:24.11 | Shirik | :/ |
| 01:24.17 | Cide | I mostly do too as a result |
| 01:24.38 | Gnarfoz | supposedly that's a big no-no, but I do too |
| 01:24.54 | Gnarfoz | (moving your hand off "home row") |
| 01:24.57 | Nechckn | I dont even use wasd, generally... all arrow keys, when available. |
| 01:25.14 | Cide | even in fps games?! |
| 01:25.18 | Cide | or mmorpg's for that matter |
| 01:25.25 | Nechckn | If there is a keypad, yes. |
| 01:25.29 | Cide | bad |
| 01:25.45 | Nechckn | for mmos, I migrate all over the place... where ever the left hand lands. |
| 01:27.19 | Jerub | i learned to use hjlk the same day i unbound the arrows |
| 01:27.47 | eidolarr | I took the time to learn navigation w/o arrows in emacs and it's turned out to be very useful |
| 01:28.53 | Shirik | oh god |
| 01:28.56 | Shirik | when I played hunter |
| 01:29.07 | Shirik | I had my right hand to the left of my left hand |
| 01:29.11 | Shirik | it was quite an epic setup |
| 01:29.20 | Lopeppeppy | ... epileptic, maybe. :P |
| 01:29.43 | Cide | wait why? |
| 01:29.56 | Jerub | i need something better than what i have at the moment. |
| 01:30.15 | Jerub | because the reason i don't use devastate at the moment on my warrior is because it's on 8, and shockwave is on 1. |
| 01:30.34 | Jerub | it's all the way to the right because it's the lowest priority in my queue |
| 01:31.02 | Shirik | cide, was that at me? |
| 01:31.06 | Cide | naturally |
| 01:31.10 | Cide | I direct all my questions to you! |
| 01:32.02 | Shirik | so like |
| 01:32.08 | Shirik | I got a G15 when it first came out |
| 01:32.24 | Shirik | I arranged my UI so that the action bars looked exactly like the G keys |
| 01:32.34 | Shirik | everything |
| 01:32.41 | Shirik | so I could do literally everything by pushing those buttons |
| 01:32.52 | Shirik | but I still used my left hand for wqes |
| 01:33.04 | Cide | oh |
| 01:33.10 | Cide | that sounds like a terribly bad idea yeah |
| 01:33.12 | Shirik | I didn't need a mouse so I never touched it |
| 01:33.14 | Shirik | no |
| 01:33.18 | Shirik | it was actually very effective |
| 01:33.33 | Cide | sure it was, mr. keyboard turner |
| 01:33.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (amarande@68-191-37-155.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 01:33.42 | eidolarr | yeah that |
| 01:33.57 | Shirik | dude |
| 01:34.10 | Shirik | it was epic |
| 01:34.13 | eidolarr | is there an obscure console command to increase keyboard turn rate? |
| 01:34.19 | Shirik | yes |
| 01:34.27 | alestane | If there is, it's very very obscure. |
| 01:34.27 | Shirik | it's called using my keyboard setup |
| 01:34.35 | Shirik | There's a reason I don't use wasd |
| 01:34.52 | Kraps | Dagmar: how do you know? |
| 01:34.55 | Shirik | I picked it up from RF Online |
| 01:34.59 | Thunder_Child | or there was software turner |
| 01:35.09 | Shirik | if you use two buttons to turn instead of 1, you can turn at a much faster rate |
| 01:35.14 | Shirik | so to turn left I use q+d |
| 01:35.15 | Amarande | WASD for some reason always reminds me of YASD |
| 01:35.19 | Shirik | turn right is a+e |
| 01:35.26 | eidolarr | Shirik: are you for real? |
| 01:35.28 | eidolarr | ahahaha |
| 01:35.29 | Shirik | yes |
| 01:35.32 | alestane | Circle-strafe works very nicely, yes. |
| 01:35.34 | Jerub | i keyboard move/turn in raids. |
| 01:35.39 | Stan_ | I just facepalmed irl shirik :( |
| 01:35.46 | eidolarr | that is brilliant |
| 01:35.50 | Cide | I'm laughing |
| 01:35.52 | Jerub | i don't pvp |
| 01:35.55 | Shirik | don't knock it until you try it! |
| 01:36.03 | Cide | I'm sure it's pretty effective Shirik |
| 01:36.07 | Shirik | oh for the record if I have to do a 180 I do use the mouse |
| 01:36.08 | Amarande | http://verydemotivational.com/2010/05/30/demotivational-posters-windows/ |
| 01:36.09 | Shirik | I'm not stupid |
| 01:36.15 | Shirik | but I'm a healer |
| 01:36.19 | Shirik | generally my turns aren't that important |
| 01:36.20 | Cide | wait |
| 01:36.20 | alestane | Or do you mean that you've actually bound both q and d to "turn left"? |
| 01:36.25 | Cide | how did you target people to heal? |
| 01:36.27 | Shirik | no alestane |
| 01:36.28 | Shirik | yo uhad it right |
| 01:36.32 | Shirik | oh |
| 01:36.37 | Shirik | Cide, that was when I was a hunter |
| 01:36.39 | Shirik | I don't do that anymore |
| 01:36.40 | Cide | oh |
| 01:36.48 | Cide | I actually came up with a keyboard targeting scheme |
| 01:36.51 | alestane | Right, I orbit things when I need to turn quickly. |
| 01:36.59 | Shirik | I have a friend that uses all keyboard to heal |
| 01:37.02 | Seerah | QWES should be the default bindings for moving... |
| 01:37.07 | Cide | using a modifier key (say "F") and then two more keys |
| 01:37.10 | Shirik | but he's a paladin so he has like 1 key for healing |
| 01:37.13 | Cide | so F-1-1 would target first player in group 1 |
| 01:37.17 | Shirik | and then like 50 billion for targetting |
| 01:37.18 | eidolarr | I don't think you could get away with that for PvP even as a paladin |
| 01:37.19 | Cide | F-5-3 3rd player in group 5 |
| 01:37.41 | Cide | it was surprisingly effective |
| 01:37.49 | eidolarr | wow |
| 01:37.56 | eidolarr | I couldn't even train myself to 12345 for selecting arena units |
| 01:38.17 | Cide | well you had everything set up in a grid |
| 01:38.20 | Kraps | Cide: isnt that slower than clicking? |
| 01:38.26 | Cide | yeah |
| 01:38.36 | Cide | but it also allowed for listing people of interest dynamically |
| 01:38.44 | Cide | you just couldn't target them via clicking in the dynamic list |
| 01:39.05 | Cide | the dispel list would say 3-3 Cide if I had a magic debuff on me for example |
| 01:39.13 | Cide | that's not doable with clicking |
| 01:39.43 | Cide | didn't get it working good enough though |
| 01:41.05 | Kraps | strafing come naturally to me for some reason |
| 01:41.33 | eidolarr | in the wowprogramming art browser, some directories are all caps like BUTTONS... is that still just Interface\Buttons? |
| 01:42.09 | Seerah | depends on your OS |
| 01:43.08 | Amarande | strafing doesn't come naturally to me |
| 01:43.14 | Amarande | probably because I grew up on turn-based games :S |
| 01:43.18 | Cide | fail |
| 01:43.34 | Amarande | we need a return to the classic JRPG! |
| 01:43.35 | Cide | should play CS and diablo 2 |
| 01:43.44 | Amarande | D2, I played quite a lot of |
| 01:43.47 | Amarande | CS, only a little |
| 01:43.53 | Cide | or rather |
| 01:43.54 | Cide | quake 3 |
| 01:43.56 | Cide | of course |
| 01:44.21 | Cide | although strafing in diablo 2 was done via mouse |
| 01:44.41 | Amarande | that's assuming you strafed much |
| 01:44.54 | Amarande | if you were playing a Barbarian with 3.3k HP with BO, you didn't need that so much heh |
| 01:44.55 | Cide | naturally |
| 01:45.13 | Amarande | ahh, I miss my IK barb now |
| 01:45.35 | NightHawkTheSane | i liked runing around shooting things with an amazon. |
| 01:45.39 | NightHawkTheSane | and now i want to play d2. |
| 01:45.43 | NightHawkTheSane | fuck you Cide. fuck you. |
| 01:45.44 | Amarande | Night: those days were fun :( |
| 01:45.51 | Amarande | back before zons got nerfed into oblivion |
| 01:46.11 | Amarande | well |
| 01:46.22 | eidolarr | Seerah: I managed to get it working as expected - but how does it depend on your OS? |
| 01:46.23 | Amarande | not so much nerfed, as everyone and everything else got boosts and they didn't really get much of one |
| 01:46.26 | Amarande | not on the bow tree, anyway |
| 01:46.42 | Seerah | eidolarr: some OS are case-specific in their file systems |
| 01:46.45 | Cide | yay for nostalgia triggers! |
| 01:46.47 | Seerah | Windows is not |
| 01:46.49 | Amarande | they've ended up kinda like raid DPSing as a frost mage |
| 01:46.50 | Amarande | heh |
| 01:47.04 | Amarande | (are frost mages that bad at raid dps, btw?) |
| 01:47.36 | eidolarr | Seerah: ohhh wow so the code that works on windows might not on mac? |
| 01:47.53 | Seerah | file/folder names |
| 01:48.07 | Seerah | .lua is case specific no matter what the OS |
| 01:48.14 | Seerah | err... Lua |
| 01:48.19 | Thunder_Child | NightHawkTheSane: you want to play till you get into the game and realize the majestic rez of your monitor has turned it into crap |
| 01:48.45 | Amarande | all I ever hear about frost dps for raiding (mage, that is) is "it sucks" |
| 01:48.52 | Amarande | I keep having to wonder if it's really quite that bad |
| 01:48.57 | Kraps | http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/129188407295950600.jpg |
| 01:49.07 | NightHawkTheSane | Thunder_Child: yeah, thats pretty much what happens. |
| 01:49.38 | Thunder_Child | NightHawkTheSane: iirc there was a hack to let you use a higher rez...didnt help much |
| 01:50.07 | Amarande | T_C: I still play Gold Box games every now and then, and those are 320x200 |
| 01:50.13 | Amarande | some of us aren't that sensitive to bad rez :) |
| 01:50.26 | Amarande | hell, I play PSone games on a 26" widescreen HDTV and don't bitch about the rez |
| 01:50.33 | Thunder_Child | Amarande: some of us are also masochists |
| 01:50.59 | eidolarr | i think wowprogramming.com might be the best thing that has ever happened to me, thank you so much to whoever is responsible |
| 01:51.19 | Seerah | jnwhiteh: ^^ :) |
| 01:51.39 | Thunder_Child | gratz jnwhiteh, you beat out sex |
| 01:51.50 | eidolarr | ... hopefully... |
| 01:51.57 | NightHawkTheSane | Thunder_Child: was only a windows hack, i think. i dont care to boot into windows jsut for d2 |
| 01:52.15 | NightHawkTheSane | wanders off to play super metroid |
| 01:52.32 | Thunder_Child | NightHawkTheSane: fair enough, however concidering the sys reqs you could emultae it easy enough |
| 01:52.38 | alestane | N'night. |
| 01:52.58 | Amarande | I keep considering buying D2 again |
| 01:53.06 | Amarande | however, slotting $40 into the budget isn't happening for a while :S |
| 01:54.14 | eidolarr | the battle chest is $20 new |
| 01:54.27 | Thunder_Child | Amarande: even blizz isnt selling D2 for $40 |
| 01:54.41 | Kraps | http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/129185600568506640.jpg |
| 01:57.38 | Amarande | T_C: I was counting 20 for D2 and 20 more for LoD |
| 01:58.01 | Amarande | and eidolarr, around here I always see the battle chest for 40 :S |
| 01:58.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (~xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 02:00.03 | Thunder_Child | Amarande: http://www.amazon.com/Diablo-Battlechest-new-version-Mac/dp/B0002BQN7Q/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1276048781&sr=1-2 |
| 02:00.41 | Amarande | btw, in WoW, what does "/use 13" do in a macro? |
| 02:00.48 | Fisker | are the authentication servers down yet? |
| 02:00.49 | Amarande | I see it in a number of mage macros on EJ, and I'm foggy on it |
| 02:00.52 | Thunder_Child | slot 13 |
| 02:01.02 | Amarande | which slot is 13, though? |
| 02:01.07 | Jerub | mage macros? |
| 02:01.07 | Thunder_Child | ring or trinket |
| 02:01.10 | Jerub | mages have 3 buttons |
| 02:01.14 | Jerub | and then 10 CDs |
| 02:01.16 | Thunder_Child | prolly trinket |
| 02:01.29 | Amarande | Jerub: I'm speaking of frost here, not arcane |
| 02:01.32 | Jerub | 13+14 are trinkets |
| 02:01.34 | Jerub | hahahha frost |
| 02:01.46 | Shirik | Kraps |
| 02:01.49 | Shirik | http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&dir=prev&offset=20100609014559&user=Mike.lifeguard&month=&year=&limit=1 |
| 02:02.05 | Kraps | lul |
| 02:02.29 | Amarande | Jerub: is it that bad? |
| 02:02.32 | Fisker | wat |
| 02:02.46 | Fisker | isn't even more than like an hour ago i used the mobile authenticator |
| 02:02.51 | Fisker | and it already got out of sync O_o |
| 02:02.55 | Fisker | that's messed up |
| 02:03.02 | Shirik | how the hell do you guys break your authenticators |
| 02:03.06 | Shirik | I've had mine for 2 years and never had a problem |
| 02:03.09 | Shirik | it's not hard |
| 02:03.25 | Fisker | mine isn't broken |
| 02:03.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen1 (~Sixen@173-25-23-10.client.mchsi.com) |
| 02:04.05 | Amarande | Shirik: they probably use them as ... um ... forget I started that sentence |
| 02:04.42 | Amarande | ok, this just boggles me |
| 02:04.55 | Amarande | of all the classes, mages, MAGES who you always associate with huge mana pools and no HP |
| 02:05.01 | Amarande | actually have the *lowest* base mana |
| 02:05.09 | Amarande | (well, not counting rogues, DKs, and warriors of course :P) |
| 02:05.39 | *** join/#wowuidev jacobeiting (~jacobeiti@2620:0:1b07:12:21b:63ff:fece:15c9) |
| 02:05.47 | Shirik | http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Barney_the_overweight_purple_dinosaur&diff=366477760&oldid=366477639 |
| 02:05.52 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 02:05.58 | Fisker | i'm calling about your sons dog |
| 02:06.06 | Amarande | Shirik, please come back |
| 02:06.11 | Amarande | you're falling into that pit of wikipedia obsession |
| 02:06.14 | Amarande | some folks never come back from that |
| 02:06.15 | Amarande | :| |
| 02:06.26 | Amarande | also, the celtics are losing :( |
| 02:07.04 | Shirik | come back towhat? |
| 02:07.34 | Amarande | to reality |
| 02:07.35 | Amarande | heh |
| 02:07.44 | Amarande | you're almost completely assimiliated into the wikiality now |
| 02:07.52 | *** join/#wowuidev jacobeiting_ (~jacobeiti@2620:0:1b07:11:21b:63ff:fece:15c9) |
| 02:07.53 | Thunder_Child | but wikipedia is reality |
| 02:08.16 | Fisker | 9. juni 201002:57Ankommet til 704 Københavns Pakkecenter |
| 02:08.18 | Fisker | yeeeeeees Shirik |
| 02:08.20 | Fisker | yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees |
| 02:08.22 | Fisker | you can't stop me |
| 02:15.34 | Amarande | ... |
| 02:15.38 | Amarande | I almost just read 'procrate' as 'procreate' |
| 02:15.41 | Amarande | damn you, EJ |
| 02:17.36 | Shirik | Amarande |
| 02:17.39 | Shirik | I never was in reality |
| 02:17.43 | Shirik | I don't know wtf you're talking about |
| 02:18.03 | Amarande | lol |
| 02:18.13 | Amarande | I'm not especially sane myself, either |
| 02:18.20 | Amarande | is now considering rolling on another server entirely |
| 02:18.24 | Amarande | simply because, well |
| 02:18.25 | Amarande | ehh |
| 02:18.32 | Amarande | I dunno. |
| 02:18.39 | Amarande | a new experience, I guess? :) |
| 02:20.40 | Amarande | hmm, human, draenei, gnome, or ... um what's the other alliance race besides night elves ... |
| 02:20.57 | Amarande | (besides ama. you know you're going to roll a draenei because it's the only alliance race you ever find you actually like) |
| 02:21.28 | Amarande | well |
| 02:21.35 | Amarande | that and the fact that I hated Elwynn and I hated Dun Morogh |
| 02:21.40 | Amarande | okay, hated leveling in Dun Morogh |
| 02:21.48 | Amarande | I liked the appearance of the zone ... but it was a pain in the ass |
| 02:22.09 | Kraps | i love Elwynn |
| 02:22.20 | Kraps | hate the NE areas |
| 02:22.35 | Amarande | Can't be NE, anyway |
| 02:22.38 | Amarande | I'm planning on a mage |
| 02:23.56 | Amarande | I did quest the night elf low level areas once on a draenei shaman though |
| 02:24.06 | Amarande | they weren't *that* bad, except for that one dumb escort quest in darkshore |
| 02:25.05 | Kraps | i cant stand the way they look |
| 02:25.25 | Kraps | which is why WSG is my least fave BG |
| 02:25.44 | Amarande | well, astranaar in ashenvale is going away anyway |
| 02:25.46 | Amarande | yay |
| 02:26.04 | Amarande | Amarelya finally gets vengeance for her brutal death the time she innocently wandered down the road in ashenvale |
| 02:27.04 | Amarande | ok, what's with all the offline realms |
| 02:27.33 | Kraps | http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/25170843081/extended-maintenance-6-8/ |
| 02:28.28 | Amarande | oh, durr |
| 02:28.40 | Amarande | also: when is 3.3.5 going to come out :) |
| 02:28.53 | Kraps | Soon |
| 02:29.01 | Amarande | you mean soon(tm)? |
| 02:29.17 | Kraps | yes |
| 02:29.26 | Jerub | not today |
| 02:30.52 | Amarande | wtf wowhead ... fail |
| 02:31.02 | Amarande | I tried to export a mmo-champion build to wowhead's talent calculator |
| 02:31.07 | Amarande | the 0/53/18 cookie cutter fire mage build |
| 02:31.13 | Amarande | ... and it came out 28/14/0 arcane |
| 02:31.14 | Amarande | wtf. |
| 02:31.21 | Amarande | fail. |
| 02:34.24 | Shirik | The Euclidean path integral over all topologically trivial metrics can be done by time slicing and so is unitary when analytically continued to the Lorentzian. On the other hand, the path integral over all topologically non-trivial metrics is asymptotically independent of the initial state. |
| 02:34.34 | Shirik | ^ what the fuck |
| 02:34.58 | Thunder_Child | makes perfect sense |
| 02:35.35 | Amarande | christ. |
| 02:35.37 | Dagmar | Shirik: Translation: "Hard geometry is hard!" |
| 02:35.40 | Amarande | why doesn't http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage#BQsYo8MF1AjCe,SY8,9551 export properly ANYWHERE? |
| 02:35.48 | Amarande | (and why doesn't mmo-champion have a frickin printer friendly option) |
| 02:35.59 | Dagmar | Why do you hate the trees so much! |
| 02:36.03 | Thunder_Child | they dont want you printing things out? |
| 02:36.39 | Amarande | Dagmar: I tend to like to have a hardcopy of my talent plan so I can refer to it when I ding |
| 02:36.48 | Gnarfoz | hardcopy lol |
| 02:37.05 | Gnarfoz | save the page? bookmark the url? something? |
| 02:37.16 | Dagmar | Amarande: Surely you don't have a PDA or second screen or osmething you can put that on |
| 02:37.26 | Kraps | Amarande: wtf |
| 02:37.27 | Dagmar | er... s/don't// |
| 02:38.06 | Gnarfoz | also, why does it not work? because everyone is using a different proprietary encoding, they keep changing stuff around, and mmo-c's talent calc is pretty dated. |
| 02:39.00 | Kraps | Shirik: wasnt there some specialist who said that while many technical articles are accurate, they're just too damn hard to understand? |
| 02:39.20 | Shirik | probably |
| 02:39.25 | DWSR | Hence Simple Wikipedia. |
| 02:39.47 | Gnarfoz | (obvious example: wowhead separates glyphs with a : at the moment, mmo-c doesn't seem to know that at all. also, wowhead "lost" the ? from the url, same thing) |
| 02:40.30 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 02:50.29 | Adys | Gnarfoz: we're working on another talent calculator |
| 02:50.42 | Gnarfoz | Adys: I'm aware, just wasn't sure if that's public or not |
| 02:51.07 | Adys | Amarande, what do you expect to see in a printer-friendly version? |
| 02:52.40 | Gnarfoz | fits centered on A4 and Letter, doesn't have a solid black background, perhaps enlarged "how many points in this talent" numbers because of the inherently lower contrast of printouts |
| 02:53.46 | Gnarfoz | nice, chrome doesn't have a print preview :( |
| 02:55.04 | Shirik | DWSR: That wasn't on wikipedia |
| 02:55.10 | Shirik | it was a quote from Stephen Hawking |
| 02:55.38 | Gnarfoz | yikes, chrome + pdfwriter = total destruction, BUT it fits A4 portrait! |
| 02:55.59 | Dagmar | Try PDFCreator then |
| 02:56.53 | Shirik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0md6Flcrd0s |
| 02:56.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (~Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:56.53 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 02:57.00 | Shirik | also, Gnarfoz, I like CutePDF |
| 02:57.03 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: that's what I meant, actually |
| 02:57.22 | Gnarfoz | and I doubt it's pdfcreator's fault |
| 02:57.33 | Dagmar | Ah okay |
| 02:58.24 | Gnarfoz | Shirik: License Proprietary |
| 02:58.35 | Mr_Rabies | is there a good map addon for powerleveling gathering professions? relying on almostgaming's maps is kind of annoying :[ |
| 02:58.55 | Dagmar | Pff. |
| 02:59.02 | Dagmar | Go get Gatherer |
| 02:59.13 | Mr_Rabies | i've got it, now what :O |
| 02:59.13 | Gnarfoz | no, get GatherMate ;p |
| 02:59.32 | Shirik | Gnarfoz: really? |
| 02:59.57 | Shirik | huh |
| 02:59.58 | Shirik | so it is |
| 03:00.04 | Shirik | the school gives it to me so I never bothered to look it up |
| 03:00.08 | Gnarfoz | Shirik: yarly! (I might give it a try some time, though, if PDFCreator haven't fixed the rather nasty issues I had with it) |
| 03:00.10 | WobWork | ~logs |
| 03:00.17 | purl | All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged. logs are updated daily |
| 03:00.17 | Shirik | it looks like it's free though |
| 03:00.19 | Shirik | just a proprietary license |
| 03:00.20 | Gnarfoz | ~blogs |
| 03:00.51 | Dagmar | I wonder about the sense them saying Gathermate adds _gas clouds_ to the map |
| 03:01.08 | Dagmar | I was under the impression those just roved wherever they damn well please |
| 03:01.26 | Gnarfoz | just like mobs don't, those don't |
| 03:01.45 | Gnarfoz | but since they're not static, it's not nearly as helpful as for mineral veins/herbs |
| 03:02.49 | Dagmar | That' what I thought... so that's just a bit of crazy-talk on their part then. |
| 03:02.57 | Dagmar | I'll just stick with Gatherer |
| 03:03.11 | Gnarfoz | but... the bloat! |
| 03:03.20 | Mr_Rabies | gatherer doesn't really help me find places to mine though |
| 03:03.31 | Mr_Rabies | i know gathererDB used to be pretty good if not resource intensive |
| 03:03.32 | Amarande | btw, are node spawn spots the same across servers? |
| 03:03.36 | Dagmar | "bloat" only matters to people with inferior machines |
| 03:03.44 | Gnarfoz | Amarande: certainly, every server is the same |
| 03:03.46 | Iriel | Amarande: yes |
| 03:03.46 | Dagmar | Amarande: As far as I know yeah |
| 03:03.54 | Amarande | ponders whether there's any suitable profession combination for rolling on a new server at this point besides inscription/herbalism ... |
| 03:04.14 | WobWork | does gatherer still store how many ore you got in previous hits? |
| 03:04.45 | WobWork | cause that sort of 'bloat' I don't need |
| 03:04.48 | Iriel | It stores it by node type AFAIK |
| 03:04.57 | Iriel | So it has a score for 'tin vein' |
| 03:05.01 | Iriel | but not for EACH tin vein |
| 03:05.08 | WobWork | what's the point, though? |
| 03:05.16 | WobWork | isn't it completely random? |
| 03:05.21 | WobWork | Or does phase of the moon matter |
| 03:05.31 | Iriel | It gives you an idea which gems you might get |
| 03:05.35 | Amarande | who knows what the RNG is seeded with |
| 03:05.48 | Gnarfoz | which gems? doubtful |
| 03:05.49 | WobWork | Iriel: not really |
| 03:06.23 | WobWork | if you're after specific gems, you're after a certain ore |
| 03:06.25 | Gnarfoz | perhaps gems y/n, but even that sounds a bit far-fetched |
| 03:06.40 | Gnarfoz | oh, non-max-level gems. :\ |
| 03:06.48 | WobWork | having the 'count' of ore that isn't even reflective of reality, doesn't really help |
| 03:06.55 | Iriel | You asked what the point was, disputing the point is sort of silly. |
| 03:06.56 | WobWork | since you still have to mine the ore to get enough to prospect |
| 03:07.04 | Iriel | I wasn't talking about prospecting |
| 03:07.12 | Iriel | I was talking about the fact you sometimes get say, jade, when mining |
| 03:07.17 | Iriel | or Frost Lotus when herbing |
| 03:07.20 | Gnarfoz | that's not a "gem", technically ;\ |
| 03:07.22 | Iriel | it gives you your average drop rate |
| 03:07.23 | WobWork | and that is related to how many ore you get? |
| 03:07.32 | Iriel | If it comes out of prospecting as well it's a gem. |
| 03:07.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Thrae (~ircuser@generalmx-1-pt.tunnel.tserv13.ash1.ipv6.he.net) |
| 03:07.48 | Iriel | Gatherer tracks your aggregate 'stuff per type of node' |
| 03:08.05 | WobWork | I still don't quite follow. The 'chances' of extras isn't related to the ore, is it? |
| 03:08.13 | Iriel | For example, Goldclover, I get on average 1.91 gold clover, 0.76 deadnettle, 0.59 crystallized life, and 0.05 frost lotus |
| 03:09.04 | Iriel | You dont get jade when mining copper as far as I know |
| 03:09.31 | Gnarfoz | so you get a statistic based solely on your own data rather than using a wider base, like wowhead's? hm. maybe nice if you don't trust external sources =] |
| 03:09.40 | WobWork | but the chances for frost lotus on goldclover is 'more/less' than that from Talandra's Rose? |
| 03:09.57 | WobWork | Even if the actual drops are completely random? |
| 03:09.58 | Gnarfoz | WobWork: they're the same, officially *shrug* |
| 03:10.21 | WobWork | I just don't see a point in making one 'type' of herb/ore more 'likely' to drop the extras |
| 03:10.27 | WobWork | from a programming point of view |
| 03:10.35 | Gnarfoz | that's not the point |
| 03:10.45 | Gnarfoz | some veins just drop stuff that others don't |
| 03:10.49 | WobWork | oh sure |
| 03:11.00 | WobWork | but I'm more likely to find which veins, by searching on wowhead for the -item- |
| 03:11.07 | Gnarfoz | yep. |
| 03:11.09 | WobWork | not by mousing over nodes that -might- drop it |
| 03:11.28 | WobWork | granted, this was in place before wowhead did that sort of thing |
| 03:11.43 | WobWork | but I see it as being superseded now |
| 03:12.04 | Gnarfoz | for several years |
| 03:12.15 | Iriel | That particular statistic uses almost no storage space, so it's not worth complaining about - if you dont need it, then you dont need it. |
| 03:12.19 | Gnarfoz | but reducing functionality is not popular, hence, bloat. ;) |
| 03:13.09 | Gnarfoz | I need something like a reverse alarm clock |
| 03:13.12 | WobWork | ... in other news: http://cupidtino.com/about |
| 03:13.15 | Dagmar | It's not like you go cherry-pick 1-2 nodes in a zone |
| 03:13.31 | Dagmar | You still just fly around harvesting everything lights up on the minimap, regardless\ |
| 03:13.46 | Amarande | a reverse alarm clock? |
| 03:13.51 | Iriel | I like the tooltip as a 'what might I expect from this node' not as a 'find node X' mechanism |
| 03:13.53 | Iriel | But then, I like data |
| 03:14.01 | WobWork | Amarande: 'when to go to sleep' I imagine |
| 03:14.02 | Iriel | Especially if it came from my historical experience |
| 03:14.13 | Gnarfoz | Amarande: yeah. one that doesn't wake me up, but makes me go to bed. or fall asleep. or both. preferably in the aforementioned order. ;p |
| 03:14.19 | WobWork | "I expect... copper!" =) |
| 03:14.37 | Dagmar | Gnarfoz: Get one of those Glade air-fresheners that's on a timer and fill it with chloroform |
| 03:15.18 | WobWork | Or keep some on a cloth in the fridge, and an alert at the right time saying: "Check if that cloth still smells like choloroform" |
| 03:15.18 | Gnarfoz | doesn't sound too unreasonable |
| 03:17.11 | Iriel | What about a normal alarm clock and sleeping pills? Or just the self-control to go to bed? |
| 03:17.23 | WobWork | Iriel: what is this... "Self. Control"? |
| 03:17.42 | WobWork | Can I buy it at the Mac store? |
| 03:18.20 | Stan_ | iSelfControl? |
| 03:18.39 | WobWork | iControlMySelf ? |
| 03:19.12 | Amarande | agh |
| 03:19.17 | Amarande | why is my realms list messed up? |
| 03:19.20 | Iriel | Self control is something I have little of myself |
| 03:19.22 | Iriel | evidenced by... |
| 03:19.25 | WobWork | because of shutdowns? |
| 03:19.28 | Iriel | Status: In Transit - On Time |
| 03:19.28 | Iriel | Scheduled Delivery Date: 06/09/2010 |
| 03:19.38 | Dagmar | What'dya buy? |
| 03:19.43 | WobWork | ipad? |
| 03:19.48 | Amarande | Wob: those should be listed as offline, which most of them appear to be |
| 03:19.53 | Iriel | Probably all the realms offline for maint.. (including mine) |
| 03:19.54 | Amarande | but there are some that just aren't on the list at all |
| 03:20.03 | WobWork | sometimes they don't show at all |
| 03:20.09 | WobWork | they'll be back! |
| 03:20.11 | Iriel | Dagmar: a camera with a bigger sensor |
| 03:20.11 | WobWork | (I hope) |
| 03:20.15 | Amarande | the entire reckoning battlegroup seems to be missing, in particular ... |
| 03:20.19 | WobWork | hm |
| 03:20.29 | WobWork | I have to find the current price for a Canon 5D |
| 03:20.32 | Dagmar | YAY BIGGER! |
| 03:20.34 | WobWork | (Mk I) |
| 03:20.45 | Iriel | There was something about an authentication maintainence too, but I didn't pay attention. |
| 03:21.08 | Iriel | This one's from the Nikon family (and not the D3(/S/X) - not that I didn't WANT one of those. |
| 03:21.31 | Amarande | are ANY of the pacific servers up? |
| 03:21.46 | Iriel | Venture Company |
| 03:21.59 | Iriel | I think that's pacific, who knows, it's got pacific time. |
| 03:22.25 | Dagmar | Quick~! post a thread saying you saw something on the news about the volcano spewing stuff and killing power to blizz's EU DC |
| 03:22.26 | Amarande | ah, nightfall battlegroup is up |
| 03:23.24 | Gnarfoz | because there's only one of those? :\ |
| 03:24.01 | Gnarfoz | plus our power distribution networks are not as flimsy, so while that story might fly in the US... ^^ |
| 03:24.23 | Gnarfoz | (oh... volcano + fly...) |
| 03:24.49 | Gnarfoz | self.control(); |
| 03:25.20 | Amarande | and apparently whirlwind is up |
| 03:25.27 | Amarande | reckoning and ... whichever one it is tichondrius is in are down |
| 03:26.01 | Iriel | Tich, is in Bloodlust, along with Silver Hand |
| 03:26.22 | Jerub | i'm on bloodlust. |
| 03:26.48 | Jerub | dath'remar |
| 03:26.56 | Amarande | Jerub: you must not be having a very fun wow day. |
| 03:27.06 | Amarande | in fact, you're probably not having a wow day at all? :) |
| 03:27.12 | Jerub | Amarande: i'm at work |
| 03:27.18 | Iriel | I dont run into many Dath'Remar-ians doing heroics |
| 03:27.28 | Jerub | it started 5pm yesterday and will finish before my workday finishes today |
| 03:27.31 | Iriel | I'm slumming it with the horde myself |
| 03:27.40 | Jerub | Iriel: i'm horde/dath'remar |
| 03:27.53 | Iriel | Jerub: ah, you wouldn't run into me then, unless yuo were beating me in a BG |
| 03:28.42 | Jerub | Iriel: hah, dath'remar is a pve realm. |
| 03:28.55 | Jerub | and there's very few pvp'er |
| 03:29.29 | Amarande | ah, my poor, poor sister |
| 03:29.31 | Amarande | she plays on shadowsong |
| 03:29.33 | Amarande | and it's down |
| 03:29.42 | Amarande | down down down, down down be doo be down, down down down down |
| 03:29.57 | Iriel | They didn't even give us a glimmer of hope |
| 03:30.03 | Iriel | they just said 'back at 12:01 am tomorrow' |
| 03:30.35 | Amarande | what are they doing with Bloodlust and Reckoning, anyway? |
| 03:30.45 | Jerub | i jumped ot hyjal and levelled a priest to 6 last night |
| 03:30.46 | Amarande | you'd think those would ALREADY have good hardware, given that they tend to be riddled with high pop servers that need it ... |
| 03:30.56 | Iriel | My guess is migrating onto new hardware |
| 03:30.56 | Amarande | c'mon celtics |
| 03:31.07 | Jerub | Amarande: i reckon it's to help with the battle.net / facebook updates |
| 03:31.15 | Amarande | or are they upgrading hardware on every server and trying not to do it to the entire game at once :) |
| 03:31.20 | Jerub | probably hooking up more juice and indexes for that |
| 03:31.29 | Iriel | They probably do rolling hardware replacements, we certainly do that with our servers |
| 03:31.38 | Amarande | why facebook integration. WHY. :| |
| 03:31.43 | Iriel | especially prepping for cata |
| 03:31.49 | Iriel | Because everyone wants it I guess |
| 03:31.54 | Iriel | I still dont go there (FB) |
| 03:32.00 | Amarande | or does nothing online actually matter now unless it's got facebook :P |
| 03:32.10 | Iriel | I'm wondering how long tweets on achievements will be behind |
| 03:32.30 | Amarande | tweet: (character) wasted his money on a haris pilton bag, congrats! |
| 03:33.29 | Amarande | I was still surprised when glacial bags appeared on AH as soon as they did, too |
| 03:33.40 | Amarande | mainly because I wondered if they would be viable to even create before very late in wotlk |
| 03:33.56 | Iriel | I still haven't made one |
| 03:34.10 | Iriel | But then I dont have oddles of spare cash |
| 03:34.13 | Amarande | main issue: Haris puts an effective cap on the sellable price of glacials |
| 03:34.27 | Amarande | and I thought that the cooldown fabrics needed would be as high priced as the corresponding BC ones were |
| 03:34.36 | Iriel | The cooldowns are gone now, so that helps |
| 03:34.41 | Amarande | and in the beginning, even more so because tailors would ... |
| 03:34.42 | Amarande | WHAT? |
| 03:34.43 | Iriel | (on the fabrics) |
| 03:34.53 | Amarande | No CD on moonshroud, ebonweave or whatsitsname anymore? |
| 03:34.59 | Amarande | I thought that was only the BC ones they took it out for |
| 03:35.02 | Iriel | no, and no location requirement |
| 03:35.20 | Dagmar | That's right. No cooldowns on the wrath fabric anymore |
| 03:35.24 | Dagmar | I sold all mine off just in time |
| 03:35.36 | Amarande | wow, that's gonna rock when I finish leveling tailoring on the priest |
| 03:36.28 | Jerub | the CD is on making the glacials |
| 03:36.31 | Jerub | 4 days |
| 03:37.56 | Amarande | I still remember how much QQ Haris caused, too |
| 03:38.18 | Amarande | mainly, because Haris pretty much was designed to take away the high end bag business from tailors and give it instead to the NPC merchant market :| |
| 03:38.28 | Jerub | Oh, Haris Pilton? |
| 03:38.31 | Amarande | Yeah |
| 03:38.48 | Amarande | Before that, merchant bags were basically for noobs and tailors were the main source of good bags |
| 03:38.59 | Amarande | now they make sure Haris is always one level beyond what tailors can make |
| 03:39.10 | Jerub | Amarande: you mean 'ahead', right? |
| 03:39.22 | Amarande | yeah. Haris always has bigger bags. |
| 03:39.24 | Jerub | oh right. |
| 03:39.27 | Jerub | sorry, i read that as behind |
| 03:39.35 | Amarande | wonder if she's going to have a 26 when tailors are given 24's |
| 03:39.55 | Amarande | although I suppose that sort of cost of vanity might be needed :| |
| 03:40.05 | Amarande | otherwise, it would eventually become more or less impossible to reroll on a new realm |
| 03:40.18 | Amarande | unless you paid to transfer an existing character over with seed money |
| 03:40.49 | Jerub | Amarande: that's a massive non-sequiter. |
| 03:40.57 | Jerub | what's wrong with having smaller-than-largest bags? |
| 03:41.07 | Iriel | We all started out that way |
| 03:41.10 | Iriel | DK's notwithstanding |
| 03:41.10 | Amarande | Jerub: I was more thinking that, without sufficient means of removing gold from the economy, eventually inflation would grow unbridled |
| 03:41.30 | Amarande | until it would be impossible for any new rolls to afford anything until they were 80 and farming dailies |
| 03:41.49 | Iriel | By that argument, you'd be able to SELL stuff at a higher price too |
| 03:41.54 | Iriel | so you'd probably be okayish |
| 03:42.00 | Amarande | 'specially since there was no super expensive new riding skill in Wrath like BC had for epic flying |
| 03:42.02 | Jerub | Iriel: ^ |
| 03:42.36 | Amarande | heck, occasionally I consider getting into UO, FFXI, or EQ |
| 03:42.41 | Amarande | but wonder if one can really start there anymore |
| 03:43.10 | Amarande | in fact, that may even be one of the reasons WoW continues to remain so popular |
| 03:43.23 | Amarande | it's one of the few MMOs that is accepting enough of new players in certain ways |
| 03:43.29 | Jerub | Amarande: again with a non-sequiter. |
| 03:43.40 | Amarande | FFXI, you basically have to be able to afford to twink out every level, or you won't get invited to most PTs |
| 03:43.58 | Amarande | UO has just been around SO long, and also has unrestricted PvP which basically would seem to make a new character impossible without being PKed all the time |
| 03:44.04 | Dagmar | You're not buying upper-level gear in EQ until you've collected it yourself several times over |
| 03:44.22 | Amarande | EQ I really don't know enough about ... it was too laggy on the dialup I had when I last tried it, so I never really got far |
| 03:44.39 | Dagmar | It's a rather unbridled example of how not to do trade skills |
| 03:44.56 | Torhal | It's DIKU with graphics. |
| 03:44.57 | Jerub | Dagmar: hm? the puzzle-trade-skill thing? |
| 03:45.00 | Dagmar | Imagine if in WoW you it took you nine gold bars to make a single spoon |
| 03:45.05 | Dagmar | I'm not talking about EQII |
| 03:45.09 | Amarande | Dagmar: we have a tradeskill like that in WoW |
| 03:45.12 | Amarande | we call it blacksmithing :) |
| 03:45.13 | Torhal | I've never played EQII |
| 03:45.13 | Dagmar | EQ is a _disaster_ |
| 03:45.15 | Jerub | sorry, i've only seen EQ from a distance. |
| 03:45.34 | Amarande | by the time you get BS to 300 you never want to see another thrice-cursed thorium bar again EVAR |
| 03:45.35 | Torhal | hey're still fucking pumping out expansions for EQ. |
| 03:45.37 | Jerub | it's amazing how far and how not-far we've come from DIKU |
| 03:45.38 | Torhal | They're* |
| 03:45.41 | Dagmar | EQII isn't much better because there is no way you're ever affording the twink materials until you've almost gotten double the level needed for tem |
| 03:45.59 | Amarande | Dagmar: WoW is as bad though |
| 03:46.05 | Torhal | Eh? |
| 03:46.10 | Amarande | people charging 5, 10 gold for level 5-10 greens on the AH |
| 03:46.13 | Dagmar | Amarande: You cite a few cases. In EQ _all items_ were like that |
| 03:46.15 | Jerub | i wish wow had vendors before the emblem vendors that sold stuff you'd ever want to use :/ |
| 03:46.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Sesshu| (~Sesshu@ip-111-20.travedsl.de) |
| 03:46.37 | Dagmar | Amarande: in EQII it's more like people charging 400g for level 5 blues |
| 03:46.40 | Jerub | who cares about a white item that gives you +10 armor. like. ever. |
| 03:46.48 | Dagmar | Their economy is borked |
| 03:47.00 | Iriel | I quite liked the SWG model where practically EVERYTHING had to be player made |
| 03:47.06 | Jerub | Dagmar: sounds like unbridled inflation. |
| 03:47.07 | Iriel | Pity about the rest of the game really |
| 03:47.18 | Amarande | I've also considered LOTRO |
| 03:47.19 | Jerub | I like puzzle pirates. |
| 03:47.20 | Dagmar | Jerub: No, it's unbridled goldfarming |
| 03:47.25 | Iriel | Puzzle Pirates is pretty Win |
| 03:47.26 | Amarande | but don't really know enough about it to know what it's like to get started there |
| 03:47.27 | Jerub | because they have an economy that works. |
| 03:47.32 | Iriel | LOTRO is free now |
| 03:47.39 | Dagmar | You can't really blame "inflation" on the fact that there's no real penalty for listing something too incredibly high |
| 03:47.46 | Amarande | Iriel: how do they keep the servers running then? :) |
| 03:48.03 | Jerub | Dagmar: you can, however, blame the market mechanics. |
| 03:48.10 | Amarande | I looked at a few items on LOTRO, and it looks kinda like WoW's item stats with different names |
| 03:48.20 | Dagmar | Iriel: yeah but if yor'e a free player arne't you required to lick the shoes of paying players or something |
| 03:48.27 | Jerub | puzzle pirates has many small useful markets, where you have buy orders and sell orders. |
| 03:48.33 | Dagmar | Jerub: I blame goldfarmers. Seriously. |
| 03:48.53 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@c-98-251-190-189.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 03:48.54 | Jerub | and if you want something made, you go to a vendor and say, "I want an X made and your stall will make it for me for Y gold in Z hours" |
| 03:49.03 | eidolarr | honestly though gold farmers are almost worth it if you're willing to buy the gold |
| 03:49.06 | Iriel | Amarande: I suspect it's free to play with "premium items for pay" |
| 03:49.07 | eidolarr | $10 for 3k gold? |
| 03:49.14 | Dagmar | Jerub: The guys who have all the upper-tier (at any level) recipe materials are professional goldfarmers pretty much |
| 03:49.15 | Amarande | Iriel: you mean like how Aeria does things? |
| 03:49.18 | Jerub | and that gets made using player puzzling in your player run stall for gold wages |
| 03:49.29 | Dagmar | eidolar: D.I.A.F. |
| 03:49.34 | Shirik | I don't know why gold farmers do that on WoW anyway |
| 03:49.38 | Shirik | like on other games they got smart |
| 03:49.41 | eidolarr | Dagmar: <3 |
| 03:49.42 | Amarande | gah |
| 03:49.44 | Shirik | you don't pay for the gold, you pay for the "time" |
| 03:49.47 | Shirik | and the gold is a free gift |
| 03:49.51 | Shirik | that's how they get around the ToS |
| 03:49.51 | Amarande | last time I ever bought any in-game stuff |
| 03:49.57 | Amarande | was when I was still a noob in Diablo 2 |
| 03:49.58 | Shirik | but |
| 03:50.06 | Shirik | on WoW they just go out and say it "you buy gold" |
| 03:50.15 | Dagmar | ...and run ads on DBM's site |
| 03:50.19 | Dagmar | Let's not forget that |
| 03:50.30 | Shirik | I'm not sure that's their fault |
| 03:50.31 | kd3 | still yells at people using DBM because of that |
| 03:50.33 | kd3 | it is |
| 03:50.36 | kd3 | it was a static ad |
| 03:50.37 | Shirik | it is? |
| 03:50.39 | kd3 | not from an and network |
| 03:50.40 | Shirik | o |
| 03:50.42 | Shirik | wow |
| 03:50.42 | Dagmar | Saw one the other day for someone flat out *selling* T9 and T10 gear |
| 03:50.51 | kd3 | s/and/ad/ |
| 03:50.58 | Jerub | Dagmar: how do you even do that? |
| 03:51.05 | Jerub | Dagmar: givethem account details and they run h's for you? |
| 03:51.08 | eidolarr | give them a spot in a good group? |
| 03:51.13 | eidolarr | they used to do that on my server |
| 03:51.27 | Dagmar | Jerub: You carry 'em along on your stolen toon raid I guess |
| 03:51.33 | kd3 | http://www.deadlybossmods.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1487 |
| 03:51.34 | kd3 | Shirik, ^ |
| 03:51.35 | Dagmar | Either way, it's deplorable |
| 03:51.35 | Jerub | eidolarr: put an epic healer on follow i guess |
| 03:51.58 | Jerub | i healed an afk hunter through ick and crick. |
| 03:52.07 | Jerub | felt so awesome after doing that |
| 03:52.24 | Dagmar | Jerub: You need to run with fewer stupid people. |
| 03:52.32 | eidolarr | it's not ethical but it's certainly understandable... how many hours would it take you to accrue 3k gold? how many huors to earn $10? |
| 03:52.40 | Dagmar | AFK huntard shold stand around the corner, out of sight |
| 03:52.47 | Shirik | wow |
| 03:52.48 | Amarande | eidolarr: on the other hand |
| 03:52.55 | Amarande | those hours you took to accrue 3k gold, depending on how you did it |
| 03:52.56 | Amarande | can be FUN |
| 03:53.00 | kd3 | Shirik, you didn't hear about that? |
| 03:53.01 | Amarande | the hour of work you took to earn $10 |
| 03:53.02 | Dagmar | eidolarr: That's like saying saying raping teenage girls is not ethical but it's understandable |
| 03:53.03 | Amarande | is usually WORK |
| 03:53.04 | Amarande | and boring |
| 03:53.05 | Amarande | and such |
| 03:53.06 | Amarande | and meh |
| 03:53.07 | Amarande | . |
| 03:53.13 | Shirik | I probably did |
| 03:53.16 | Shirik | and totally forgot |
| 03:53.27 | eidolarr | Dagmar: IT'S ALSO LIKE SAYING KILLING JEWS IN THE HOLOCAUST IS NOT ETHICAL BUT UNDERSTANDABLE |
| 03:53.29 | Shirik | [aow fpoasf oawej awe faqw |
| 03:53.33 | Amarande | Dagmar: now we're comparing cheating at WoW to rape |
| 03:53.34 | Amarande | :| |
| 03:53.38 | Shirik | every time I find a site that is not no-www class B compliant |
| 03:53.41 | Shirik | I want to kill it |
| 03:53.45 | kd3 | ok, and there's the nazi reference |
| 03:53.49 | kd3 | end of thread |
| 03:53.59 | eidolarr | yeah it was sarcastic thoguh |
| 03:54.01 | eidolarr | still counts? |
| 03:54.09 | kd3 | we're now talking about caturday |
| 03:54.17 | Amarande | meow? |
| 03:54.19 | Shirik | or even class A |
| 03:54.29 | Amarande | Shirik: wtf is no-www class B |
| 03:54.43 | Shirik | It means "stop making your GD site require a www. to work" |
| 03:55.10 | Amarande | Shirik: that, unfortunately, is usually under the host's control rather than the user's |
| 03:55.21 | Amarande | in particular, email expects a domain without a prefix |
| 03:55.28 | Amarande | therefore, if the web and email servers for a domain are different |
| 03:55.33 | Shirik | if you own the domain name you should be able to control it |
| 03:55.41 | Jerub | sharpens his stabbing knife. |
| 03:55.42 | Amarande | you have to require www.foo.com, because foo.com basically all but has to be given over to the mail server |
| 03:55.48 | Cide | awww |
| 03:55.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Jelly-Laptop (~odiusxpop@adsl-76-255-79-153.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:55.51 | Shirik | disagree |
| 03:55.55 | Cide | http://www.no-www.org actually works |
| 03:55.56 | Jerub | Amarande: you don't understand this technology do you? |
| 03:56.00 | kd3 | that was true in the 90s |
| 03:56.06 | kd3 | it hasn't been true since |
| 03:56.10 | Dagmar | Amarande: There's a crapload of secondary crime involved in "cheating", and by that I do mean _crime_ |
| 03:56.16 | Shirik | Cide: their site is class B compliant |
| 03:56.23 | Shirik | note that it redirects you to no-www.org |
| 03:56.24 | Cide | well yeah |
| 03:56.30 | kd3 | runs http/email/sql/etc... from one box, on one domain name |
| 03:56.32 | Amarande | Dagmar: yeah, I suspect it probably funds the triads |
| 03:56.39 | Cide | but it would have been funny if it had at least given me a note telling me how awful I am |
| 03:56.40 | Shirik | most sites are class A (doesn't redirect you, but works) which I'm fine with |
| 03:56.44 | Amarande | or the tongs, or whatever they have in taiwan |
| 03:56.45 | Dagmar | Shirik: Every time I see someone use a netblock term on a DOMAIN NAME it makes my blood pressure go up |
| 03:56.48 | Amarande | tongs, I think |
| 03:56.57 | Shirik | sites that are uncompliant make me seriously reconsider using it |
| 03:56.59 | Dagmar | There's no such thing as a "class B" domain name. |
| 03:57.07 | Shirik | Dagmar: They invented the terms |
| 03:57.11 | Shirik | it's not about net blocks |
| 03:57.17 | Jerub | RFC-973, which is Jan 1986. |
| 03:57.18 | Dagmar | That doesn't mean they're not idiots. |
| 03:57.19 | Shirik | there's a ton of things with classes |
| 03:57.21 | Jerub | details MX records. |
| 03:57.27 | Shirik | "class A" is just a generic term |
| 03:57.35 | Amarande | yay, dreamhost is no-www compliant |
| 03:57.38 | Shirik | they could have easily said "no-www section 1.0" |
| 03:57.39 | Shirik | or something |
| 03:57.48 | Amarande | doesn't redirect, though |
| 03:57.51 | eidolarr | but... would they still be idiots? |
| 03:57.58 | Shirik | yes, Amarande, that's how most sites SHOULD be |
| 03:58.03 | Shirik | if you're not stupid |
| 03:58.05 | Dagmar | *sigh* |
| 03:58.09 | Dagmar | You realize it's supposed to be a hostname, right? |
| 03:58.14 | Shirik | yes |
| 03:58.26 | Dagmar | That thing in the URI to the right of hte two slashes... supposed to mean one, specific machine |
| 03:58.31 | Shirik | yes |
| 03:58.37 | Dagmar | Nevermind for the moment that places like Amazon are actually a borg cluster. |
| 03:58.42 | Shirik | so make your machine the one that most people actually go to |
| 03:58.45 | Dagmar | Right so that machine is supposed to have a name |
| 03:58.57 | Thunder_Child | "[20:58:25] [2] [Firsttofail]: My son's ICC 10 man run tonight failed. I don;t know why. But hes really upset and crying, he is threatning to commit suicide . someone help me here" |
| 03:59.06 | Shirik | most users could care less where the mail server / name server / finger server is |
| 03:59.16 | kd3 | tc; the hell? |
| 03:59.16 | Dagmar | It's _redundant_ for people to ever have to type 'www.domain.com' when the http:// makes it perfectly obvious, but it is not incorrect |
| 03:59.18 | Amarande | T_C: wow, what messed up server are you on |
| 03:59.23 | Amarande | tell me it's not misha or turalyon |
| 03:59.32 | Shirik | almost everyone will always be looking for the web server |
| 03:59.44 | Amarande | Dagmar: and yet net vets like me always type www anyway :S |
| 03:59.45 | Shirik | if you're not, then you probably know what you're looking for elsewhere |
| 03:59.48 | Dagmar | That "no-www" stuff is no better htan high-school cliquery for the most part |
| 03:59.48 | Thunder_Child | cenarius |
| 03:59.56 | Cide | I *never* type www |
| 03:59.59 | Shirik | so the www server should be default |
| 04:00.00 | Thunder_Child | kd3: trade chat |
| 04:00.01 | Amarande | makes a point not to roll on cenarius |
| 04:00.02 | DWSR | Thunder_Child: Troll. |
| 04:00.15 | kd3 | I know what [2] is... was just wtfing at the troll |
| 04:00.21 | Amarande | T_C: is this also a point to be made for other reasons, btw? :) |
| 04:00.30 | Dagmar | With the name 'Firsttofail' he's a troll |
| 04:00.35 | Shirik | it's even worse when you consider things like companies that only have one server to begin with |
| 04:00.35 | Thunder_Child | Amarande: huh? |
| 04:00.37 | Shirik | that still require the www |
| 04:00.46 | Amarande | T_C: that I shouldn't roll on cenarius |
| 04:00.49 | Jerub | vim.org requires the www |
| 04:00.50 | Jerub | and it shits me |
| 04:01.15 | Thunder_Child | Amarande: *shrug* |
| 04:01.17 | Dagmar | Jerub: Why should it? It's entirely correct. |
| 04:01.28 | Dagmar | Would you complain about it if it were largepenis.vim.org? |
| 04:01.45 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (harl@dslb-088-077-221-084.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 04:01.54 | Amarande | I have my Horde toons on Turalyon, and am currently considering Misha for alliance |
| 04:02.02 | Dagmar | A domain is not a hostname. A domain name is a grouping name just like yer family's last name |
| 04:02.10 | Jerub | Dagmar: becuase it's one of the few remaining sites i ever go to that requires it. |
| 04:02.32 | Dagmar | Jerub: I've got news for you... *most* sites require that you actually type in the hostname of the web server correctly |
| 04:02.43 | Jerub | bah, that's just philisophical bullshit. the reality is that not supporting stripping the www. makes you a loser who doesn't know better. |
| 04:02.45 | Dagmar | ....unless you're using OpenDNS and they redirect common typos |
| 04:03.06 | Amarande | Jerub, you and Shirik are starting to sound like one of Cartman's crazy cults :| |
| 04:03.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Droolio (~drool@87-194-188-170.bethere.co.uk) |
| 04:03.10 | Dagmar | Jerub: Pfft. Now you're being silly |
| 04:03.16 | Shirik | cartman's crazy cults? |
| 04:03.20 | Amarande | well, Shirik was always crazy |
| 04:03.27 | Amarande | Shirik: yeah, like the ones Cartman was always coming up with on South Park |
| 04:03.28 | Jerub | Amarande: cartman is the name of my primary test host. |
| 04:03.35 | Dagmar | Next you'll be getting upset because people don't wear an earring in the left ear |
| 04:03.40 | Amarande | ah, my machine is called Alviarin |
| 04:03.42 | Dagmar | ...instead of the right, which makes them gay |
| 04:03.53 | Shirik | is that for real? |
| 04:04.09 | eidolarr | you compared no-www to "high school cliquery" how can you call anyone silly |
| 04:04.12 | Dagmar | Yes. If you wear an earring in the right ear you're telling the world you like it in the butt. |
| 04:04.33 | Amarande | Hell's fire, Mother Night and may the Darkness be merciful |
| 04:04.39 | Shirik | hahahahahaha |
| 04:04.50 | Amarande | how does one manage to wear ANYTHING these days without sending out some strange unknown obscure high school clique jargon message |
| 04:04.54 | Jerub | Amarande: which ear do you have your earring in? |
| 04:04.55 | Jerub | :P |
| 04:04.59 | Amarande | I don't have earrings |
| 04:05.00 | Dagmar | eidolarr: because it's just made-up crap with no utility or factual meaning that group of losers X can use in declaring that group of losers Y are acutally big losers. |
| 04:05.00 | Amarande | but ... |
| 04:05.01 | Amarande | heh |
| 04:05.18 | Shirik | epic failure |
| 04:05.23 | Shirik | I can't delete a Wikipedia page |
| 04:05.28 | eidolarr | and buying gold is like raping a teenaged girl |
| 04:05.30 | Dagmar | Amarande: It's easy. You wear black from head to toe so that people know if they fuck with you you'll come back and shoot the place up. |
| 04:05.41 | Amarande | the only jewelry I wear regularly lately is my Vilya |
| 04:05.54 | Shirik | a page just got half deleted |
| 04:06.00 | Amarande | fail |
| 04:06.05 | kd3 | yay breaking the database? |
| 04:06.06 | Shirik | and now the wiki is broke |
| 04:06.10 | kd3 | ahahaha |
| 04:06.15 | Amarande | Shirik killed wikipedia |
| 04:06.17 | kd3 | watches wikitech-en blow up |
| 04:06.22 | Amarande | OH MY GOD, YOU KILLED WIKIPEDIA |
| 04:06.23 | Amarande | YOU BASTARD |
| 04:06.41 | Shirik | like I still see the page |
| 04:06.41 | Amarande | and college professors everywhere rejoiced |
| 04:06.45 | Amarande | and assigned finals for tomorrow |
| 04:06.46 | Shirik | but when I click delete it says "the page was already deleted" |
| 04:06.52 | Amarande | so people couldn't use wikipedia as a study resource! :D |
| 04:06.53 | Dagmar | Is the page half-deleted, or is it half-remaining? |
| 04:06.58 | kd3 | which article? |
| 04:06.59 | Shirik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gangs_in_the_Grand_Theft_Auto_series |
| 04:07.05 | Shirik | op |
| 04:07.07 | Shirik | it'sfinally gone |
| 04:07.12 | Shirik | oh jesus |
| 04:07.17 | Shirik | View or restore 6,667 deleted edits? |
| 04:07.21 | Shirik | no wonder it took forever |
| 04:07.28 | Thrae | Woohoo I got a job with a pay raise. |
| 04:07.35 | kd3 | whoa... how'd that go through? didn't bigdelete cap out at 5k? |
| 04:07.38 | Shirik | yes |
| 04:07.41 | Shirik | that's why it was dying |
| 04:07.43 | Shirik | a steward did it |
| 04:07.45 | kd3 | ah |
| 04:07.53 | Amarande | Thrae: well, yes, getting a job when you were unemployed usually means a pay raise |
| 04:07.58 | Amarande | since you're getting something more than zero |
| 04:07.58 | Amarande | heh |
| 04:08.22 | Thrae | Amarande: I already had a job (for two weeks), I just got offered *another* job. |
| 04:08.26 | Dagmar | AH! Now I remember |
| 04:08.35 | eidolarr | Thrae: doing what? |
| 04:08.41 | Dagmar | Shirik: There is *wrong information* brazenly on Wikipedia |
| 04:08.46 | Dagmar | ONOES. |
| 04:08.53 | Shirik | also |
| 04:08.55 | Shirik | this is awesome |
| 04:08.57 | Shirik | http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/4246/screenshot032n.png |
| 04:09.05 | Thrae | eidolarr: Administrating a forum for a MMO. |
| 04:09.12 | Dagmar | Shirik: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reagan%27s_%22We_begin_bombing_in_five_minutes%22_joke <-- this is dead wrong |
| 04:09.18 | Amarande | Thrae: is it WoW? :) |
| 04:09.30 | Thrae | Amarande: Hell no. |
| 04:09.32 | Dagmar | That was broadcast over satellite. I saw it. One tends to remember things like that. |
| 04:09.41 | eidolarr | Thrae: are you going to keep your forum admin job? |
| 04:09.44 | Dagmar | I about wet myself |
| 04:10.17 | Dagmar | Shirik: I'm not saying you shoudl fix it, but it serves as a good example of the difference between accurate and _provably accurate_ |
| 04:10.18 | Thrae | eidolarr: My *new* job is the forum admin job. My current job is computer repair shop guy. |
| 04:10.41 | Shirik | I have no idea wtf that is Dagmar |
| 04:10.45 | Dagmar | "Contrary to popular misconception, the joke was not broadcast over the air;" <-- I definitely saw it on |
| 04:10.50 | kd3 | so fix it? it's not semiprotected |
| 04:10.57 | Jerub | reminds himself to go grab the latest stats from his email servers. |
| 04:11.01 | kd3 | tag a {{cite}}? |
| 04:11.05 | Dagmar | Shirik: Iv'e got no way to "prove" that that joke he made was broadcast. |
| 04:11.09 | Dagmar | ...yet I saw it. |
| 04:11.17 | eidolarr | Thrae: so you are going to do both or is forum moderating full time somehow |
| 04:11.33 | eidolarr | Dagmar: you should at least post on the talk page, {{cite}} is a good idea |
| 04:11.39 | WobWork | Dagmar:  "Yesterday the Polish Government, a bunch of fresh-smelling flower children, took another far-reaching step in their deodorization of their own people." is pretty awesome |
| 04:11.41 | kd3 | s/cite/fact/ |
| 04:11.46 | Thrae | eidolarr: It's on the scale of the WoW forums. That's full-time. |
| 04:11.53 | Jerub | Dagmar: that's curious. isn't NPR a radio, not tv, station? |
| 04:12.00 | Dagmar | WobWork: Yeah generally his jokes weren't so H.G.Wellsey |
| 04:12.30 | Dagmar | Jerub: I was watching during the sound check and they were broadcasting it, video included, over satellite to remote sites |
| 04:12.41 | Amarande | Thrae: LotRO? |
| 04:12.59 | Thrae | I can't confirm or deny anything. |
| 04:13.05 | Cide | so you're saying you didn't listen to the actual radio channel |
| 04:13.08 | Amarande | let me get this straight |
| 04:13.11 | Cide | but you saw something else that happened to include it |
| 04:13.14 | Shirik | Dagmar: Is it proven that it WASN'T broadcast over the air? |
| 04:13.15 | Dagmar | Jerub: It was a rather short period of time after that shuttle blew up, and I was hopping back and forth between different NASA feeds when that happened yelling "How can they NOT TELL!" |
| 04:13.17 | Shirik | If not, remove that statement |
| 04:13.19 | Amarande | you got a job that *makes you agree not to say what company you work for*? |
| 04:13.19 | kd3 | http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Reagan%27s_%22We_begin_bombing_in_five_minutes%22_joke&diff=366929338&oldid=366073186 |
| 04:13.22 | kd3 | dagmar ^ |
| 04:13.30 | Amarande | wtf did you get a job for, the military's private tactical ops MMO or something? :P |
| 04:13.31 | Dagmar | Shirik: I don't know how they could prove that since again... I saw it. Live broadcast. |
| 04:13.49 | Dagmar | Amarande: No. Satellite TV had complete shit for security at that point |
| 04:13.49 | Cide | but it wasn't the radio channel |
| 04:14.02 | Shirik | I found kd3's user name |
| 04:14.06 | Shirik | commencing tackle |
| 04:14.06 | Dagmar | Virtually nothing that wasn't porn wasn't broadcast utterly in the clear |
| 04:14.06 | Thrae | Amarande: I usually like to wait until *after* getting the NDA to spill details so I don't pre-emptively violate it. |
| 04:14.17 | kd3 | zomg, I have a username on enwiki? gasp |
| 04:14.27 | Dagmar | If you pointed your dish at the right satellite you'd see all sorts of things |
| 04:14.31 | Cide | I thought "on air" was through the actual broadcast medium |
| 04:14.40 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: isnt that still true for stuff like news? |
| 04:14.43 | WobWork | Amarande: thrae is working on caty forums =P |
| 04:14.52 | Amarande | he said it wasn't WoW. :) |
| 04:14.54 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: On "big dish" stuff yeah |
| 04:14.58 | Amarande | there are NDAs where you aren't allowed to say what company you work for? |
| 04:15.03 | Dagmar | They'd be called "wild feeds" now |
| 04:15.06 | Amarande | that must be a drag when you need to do things like apply for credit or such :| |
| 04:15.10 | Thrae | Yes, WobWork is right. |
| 04:15.17 | Thrae | I am worry on Catty forums. |
| 04:15.17 | Shirik | kd3 has no deleted contributions :( |
| 04:15.21 | Shirik | I was expecting some wowwiki spam |
| 04:15.25 | WobWork | Star Wars forums! |
| 04:15.28 | Thrae | The MMO dedicated to cats and felinity. |
| 04:15.32 | kd3 | lmao, no. I know not to do that |
| 04:15.43 | kd3 | ever since the deletionists won the war a few years ago |
| 04:15.43 | Thrae | Wait, isn't that Furscape or whatever? |
| 04:15.47 | Thunder_Child | you gotta SPY HARD! |
| 04:15.57 | Jelly-Laptop | Hello Kitty Island Adventures! |
| 04:16.35 | Thunder_Child | .... |
| 04:16.43 | Thunder_Child | i bet art3mis was happy at that one |
| 04:16.58 | Thrae | Amarande: Welcome to the world of working for a third-party outsource. Hopefully working within (well, remotely within) a company will grant me more things I can say, but my background tells me to proceed with caution. |
| 04:17.35 | Thunder_Child | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCdmiZyyGjQ |
| 04:17.46 | Thrae | Amarande: If that last statement was confusing, the new company is a game developer/publisher, not a third-party outsourcing company like the one I used to work for (e4e). |
| 04:18.22 | Amarande | Thrae: does this mean when you're under certain employers, you can just forget about even applying for a credit card or loan |
| 04:18.27 | Amarande | because you're not allowed to disclose who you're working for? |
| 04:19.58 | Thrae | Amarande: I can tell you where I worked and how much I got paid and the basics of what I did, just not the specifics or the clients of that company. Shouldn't effect loans at all. Besides, I have a perfect credit record. Mmmm, fixed 7% APR for the last 3 years. |
| 04:20.00 | Dagmar | Oh ho... I just looked something up... So Reagan, regardless of what this article says, must have made this joke a second time |
| 04:20.03 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: since the other stuff in that article isnt cited i would say just go and edit it, change the 'over the air' to 'over the radio' then add in that it was broadcast over satellite |
| 04:20.14 | WobWork | Thunder_Child: lol |
| 04:20.29 | Thunder_Child | WobWork: and that thing is old too |
| 04:20.34 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: oh heh, that might explain it |
| 04:21.14 | Kraps | Thunder_Child: well that incredibly racist |
| 04:21.18 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: Being that I remember very shortly before that seeing the Challenger blow up and immediatley calling up classmate geek who was also watching the NASA live feed...and thinking this "one" is WAY less happy than the Challenger blowing up... he's made that joke during other sound checks that apparently included video |
| 04:21.21 | Kraps | and funny |
| 04:21.41 | Thunder_Child | ^^ |
| 04:21.50 | Dagmar | I felt privledged to have been watching the shuttle live, and was kinda kicking myself for actually watching a sound check where the end of hte fucking world was announced |
| 04:21.51 | Thrae | Amarande: I just don't want to go into specifics right now about my *new* job as I haven't even gotten the intro into their rules, policies, NDAs, etc. |
| 04:22.13 | Dagmar | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:22.18 | Kraps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktmlU1l_jys&feature=related |
| 04:22.18 | Cairenn | Thrae: congrats! |
| 04:22.22 | Thrae | Amarande: That, and this handle is connected to my real name, which will be used in the new job. |
| 04:22.37 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: challenger was in 86 though right? |
| 04:22.53 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: Yeah, this is how I can be pretty sure he's made that joke since 1984 |
| 04:23.03 | Thrae | Dagmar: Where am I not using spaces...? |
| 04:23.14 | Dagmar | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:23.52 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 04:23.54 | kd3 | but how many of us have logs? |
| 04:23.59 | kd3 | >.> |
| 04:24.00 | Iriel | Or the ability to print screen |
| 04:24.06 | Thrae | Dagmar: That's only for the public logging from the CIA and whatever. I personally log the channel myself and my logs have no such requirements. |
| 04:24.27 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: I was looking at the Challenger WP entry going "1986? ...that would explain some things" because the Saturday address would generally happen on Saturday, and when I saw this I was home from school for the summer--not a weekend day |
| 04:24.30 | Thrae | Which reminds me...there are some channels I should stop auto-logging for...possible legal reasons. |
| 04:24.41 | Fisker | hey kd3 |
| 04:24.43 | Fisker | i have a question |
| 04:24.48 | kd3 | yes fisk-fisk? |
| 04:24.49 | Dagmar | Thrae: Are your logs rummaged through by Google? |
| 04:24.56 | Fisker | hurrdurr? |
| 04:25.06 | Thrae | Dagmar: They were until I took them off the webserver! |
| 04:25.24 | Dagmar | Well lets get that logging code edited then |
| 04:25.37 | Thrae | Ooo, Dagmar is scared of the logs. |
| 04:25.52 | Dagmar | Not scared of, scared _for_ |
| 04:26.03 | Dagmar | Just fecking trust me |
| 04:26.05 | Fisker | i'm so bored |
| 04:26.08 | Fisker | how can it be Thrae ? |
| 04:26.53 | Arrowmaster | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:26.56 | Fisker | also Thrae as far as i know, working as a janitor in the local store is usually not covered by NDAs etc. |
| 04:27.08 | Thrae | Fisker: I may or may not be responsible for Mages getting Bloodlust/Heroism. |
| 04:27.13 | Dagmar | Thrae: Over the years I've been in a number of channels that might be considered "of interest" to fascist law enforcement types. IRC logs make for dodgy-dodgy if someone even remotely connected with a channel gets popped for something serious |
| 04:27.32 | Amarande | Thrae: ah, now I know why you want to keep yourself on the down low |
| 04:27.39 | Dagmar | The feds can go serve a warrant on someone they think was logging |
| 04:27.40 | WobWork | I would too |
| 04:27.41 | Amarande | so that you don't get mass lynched by mobs of angry Shamans |
| 04:27.42 | Amarande | heh |
| 04:27.44 | WobWork | this ^ |
| 04:28.09 | kd3 | magelust++ |
| 04:28.11 | NightHawkTheSane | ... i like mages having bloodlust |
| 04:28.16 | NightHawkTheSane | <-- shaman |
| 04:28.19 | WobWork | Now shaman have no raid utility =P |
| 04:28.26 | Fisker | i'm tired WobWork |
| 04:28.30 | WobWork | Go to bed |
| 04:28.33 | Jerub | WobWork: sure they do. |
| 04:28.42 | Jerub | WobWork: cancelling pally buffs willy nilly. |
| 04:28.45 | Dagmar | ...and there's no need to help judgmental, self-righteous pinheads have the ability to personally review and declare as a disqualifying issue the past conversations of a bunch of strangers on IRC |
| 04:28.52 | Amarande | Jerub: sure, if you want to go resto and have to be a healer again like in classic |
| 04:28.53 | Fisker | i can't WobWork |
| 04:28.54 | Thrae | 00:27 < kd3> magelust++ <-- that's the spell Jaina uses on Thrall. |
| 04:29.00 | kd3 | ahahah |
| 04:29.20 | WobWork | Fisker: Does this cloth smell like chloroform to you? |
| 04:29.33 | Fisker | no? |
| 04:29.41 | WobWork | well go get some |
| 04:29.55 | Dagmar | At least with the one bot logging, no one's house is as likely to get raided, and the no-log spacebar exclusion lets people say stuff OTR |
| 04:30.33 | Jerub | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:30.35 | Arrowmaster | well i think there are other bots logging too |
| 04:30.44 | Dagmar | Jerub: I'd rather you didn't. |
| 04:30.50 | Amarande | Jerub: no, Cairenn will still smite you with da powah if you do that |
| 04:31.00 | Cide | stop being so paranoid |
| 04:31.24 | Cide | I'll buy you a tinfoil hat |
| 04:31.24 | Thrae | And it's also against Freenode's rules, so you'll summon the IRcops. |
| 04:31.26 | Dagmar | ...but keep in mind there's actually firms out there now that collect this crap and upon request will serve up every little piece of dirt they could dig up to any HR staffer willing to pay about a hunnert bucks |
| 04:31.28 | kd3 | why? tinfoil hats only make the mind control rays worse |
| 04:31.32 | Arrowmaster | i know there have been a few attempts at sites 'log all irc channels' to make them searchable |
| 04:31.49 | Jerub | yeah, irseek.com was one. |
| 04:31.53 | Thrae | Whatcha gunna do when they kline you...bad ircops, bad ircops... |
| 04:31.55 | Amarande | Arrow: I think it was once considered as a server-level addon |
| 04:32.00 | Jerub | i tried to tell them to fix their XSS bugs |
| 04:32.03 | Jerub | but they uh. didn't listen. |
| 04:32.05 | Amarande | it didn't catch on, that I recall :P |
| 04:32.15 | Dagmar | Amarande: Something to do with htem not really asking people |
| 04:32.35 | Dagmar | That and IRC was still a bit jumpy about _unasked-for bots of unknown origin_ |
| 04:32.46 | Amarande | Especially Undernet |
| 04:32.57 | Amarande | I seem to remember the logging-for-sale thing occurred during the time I was active with coder-com |
| 04:33.02 | Dagmar | We didn't ask a lot of questions in #Rave/EFnet. We just aimed for the eyes. |
| 04:33.15 | Adys | http://xkcd.com/751/ |
| 04:33.22 | Jerub | i was lolling recently when /b/ decided to DoS gubbermint websites in australia. |
| 04:33.25 | kd3 | adys; indeed |
| 04:33.31 | Jerub | I tried to talk them down on their irc channel. |
| 04:33.40 | Amarande | Jerub: lemme guess, you got b& for your trouble |
| 04:34.02 | Jerub | And one of the things Iw asn't allowed to say, but tried to hint at, was that there were at least 4 federal cops, and 6 private security contracters in the 70+ person channel |
| 04:34.10 | Kraps | idk, i'm kind of pumped for the last 2 HP movies |
| 04:34.15 | Jerub | Amarande: i did, but i got unbanned afterwards. |
| 04:34.31 | Dagmar | Jerub: They just have to learn for themselves that those people already have their plates full and can't really find the time to get up to any Orwellian monitoring scenarios |
| 04:34.33 | Fisker | this was the second time i died Thrae |
| 04:34.37 | Adys | My next floor neighbour just came up and rang to tell me that "my balcony was dripping water and making noise" |
| 04:34.44 | Adys | It's 7am and it's raining |
| 04:34.48 | Dagmar | Any military site that "matters" is not going to have a hostname assigned. |
| 04:35.06 | kd3 | hopefully |
| 04:35.08 | Dagmar | ...at least, not one that can be queried on public DNS servers. |
| 04:35.09 | kd3 | >.< |
| 04:35.40 | Dagmar | Well, after a few incidents, ones that "seriously matter" aren't even allowed direct access to the internet anymore (thankfully) |
| 04:36.25 | Arrowmaster | i actually know quite a few people involved in civilian IT onbase for the airforce, but ive never asked about stuff like that, probably for the better |
| 04:36.56 | Dagmar | It's all N2K but you can extrapolate based on what their requirements are and what best practices their people know about |
| 04:37.12 | Amarande | Arrow: sometimes I wonder if when Tom Clancy's generation of authors pass on, that entire genre may more or less die out |
| 04:37.21 | Amarande | because it's too dangerous for someone to try to get into writing technothrillers anymore |
| 04:37.28 | Fisker | stops kd3 |
| 04:37.30 | Dagmar | Haah |
| 04:37.36 | Amarande | if you try, you'll probably be so watched and flagged and etc. that you probably won't even be able to live a normal life |
| 04:38.16 | Amarande | like how I wonder if there will be an ever-dwindling number of Stephen King-esque authors because they will be identified as teenagers as "potential school shooters" and counseled out of the mind they needed to create |
| 04:38.29 | Dagmar | Amarande: Yeah, talk to some comp sci geeks, come up with something plausible-sounding, publish, find out you actually just described an actual incident that happened, in detail, and get yourself a nice visit and maybe a free vacation with a souveneir black canvas hood. |
| 04:38.55 | Amarande | and yet the problem is *people don't care* |
| 04:38.58 | Thunder_Child | sounds relaxing |
| 04:38.59 | Amarande | they only care about security, and safety |
| 04:39.00 | Amarande | :| |
| 04:39.05 | Dagmar | Oh fuck those people |
| 04:39.08 | Amarande | how did people get to not care about creativity anymore? |
| 04:39.32 | Arrowmaster | most of the technical stuff in tom clancy books are wrong and completely made up though |
| 04:39.34 | Dagmar | They institutionalized bullying of non-conformists. |
| 04:39.35 | kd3 | because the creatives don't bleat like sheep like the rest of the proles. too much trouble for administrators |
| 04:39.40 | WobWork | Amarande: ever since patents =P |
| 04:39.41 | Amarande | or is it time for me to learn the bingbingbing |
| 04:39.46 | Amarande | that CREATIVITY DOESN'T REALLY MATTER ANYMORE or such :| |
| 04:39.54 | Dagmar | There's a school here that's using that student profiling bullshit |
| 04:39.57 | Amarande | except in a few specific fields, like pharmaceuticals |
| 04:40.10 | Arrowmaster | doesnt really matter there anymore either |
| 04:40.25 | Arrowmaster | most firms have a backlog of forumlas they need to test |
| 04:40.35 | eidolarr | so i'm playing around with the idea of using tables as pointers, and using them to index other tables of local data to the "objects" the tables represent |
| 04:40.48 | Dagmar | From the look of it tho I figure any kid with intelligence enough to make them cynical and anarchist will also be smart enough to outwit siad tests |
| 04:41.11 | Dagmar | Society desperately needs more anarchists |
| 04:41.15 | Iriel | eidolarr: they work fairly well, you might find newproxy() userdata are smaller, I dont remember offhand. |
| 04:41.17 | Arrowmaster | eidolarr: use newproxy() to get a userdata object instead if you are going to do that |
| 04:41.20 | Amarande | there is also the idea nowadays that it is worse to let the guilty go free than to persecute the innocent |
| 04:41.23 | Amarande | how did that get to be the case? |
| 04:41.40 | Dagmar | Amarande: That would be one of the reasons we need more anarchists |
| 04:41.45 | eidolarr | oh I thought tables were just references, ok |
| 04:42.02 | eidolarr | like 4/8 byte pointers, but i guess that doesn't make sense |
| 04:42.02 | Iriel | They are, but there's a table being pointed AT |
| 04:42.07 | Dagmar | ...and I'm not talking about grenade-throwing lunatics, I'm talking about the anarchists that can "do the right thing" even when no one's watching them. |
| 04:42.10 | eidolarr | yeah |
| 04:42.11 | eidolarr | silly of me |
| 04:42.18 | Dagmar | The idealist-type anarchists, if you will |
| 04:42.23 | eidolarr | newproxy() is a wow thing or is that part of Lua? |
| 04:42.32 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: you mean people with common fucking sense? |
| 04:42.33 | Arrowmaster | lua |
| 04:42.40 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: On hte nose |
| 04:42.41 | Amarande | or *is* it normally worse in absolute terms to let the guilty go free than the persecute the innocent, and to think otherwise is to be an idiot and perhaps suicidal? |
| 04:42.50 | eidolarr | is it in a lib? is it new? somehow i've never heard of it |
| 04:42.51 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: Common sense and moral fiber |
| 04:42.58 | Arrowmaster | its old |
| 04:43.11 | Amarande | I suppose it also boils down to another old philosophical thought |
| 04:43.13 | Dagmar | Weirdly, you don't really get that these days unless your'e dealing with a right-wing religious nut who is convinced god will smite them. |
| 04:43.21 | Dagmar | I don't think that really counts as a good reason to do "good" |
| 04:43.30 | Dagmar | I fail to see how it's any better than a lack of free will. |
| 04:43.33 | eidolarr | one more question on the topic, why would you not use, say, an integer instead? ease of finding unique ones? |
| 04:43.42 | Amarande | are good and evil in fact, equal and opposing forces, or is good in fact a baby compared to evil? |
| 04:43.51 | Amarande | one usually hears them cited as such |
| 04:43.58 | Amarande | however, it seems that this is usually in fictional works |
| 04:44.04 | Amarande | where destruction and preservation are balanced |
| 04:44.06 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: those people tend to have only average morals, and not very good common sense |
| 04:44.08 | Amarande | which doesn't seem to be a possible thing |
| 04:44.13 | Dagmar | Fictional works tend to lean towards binary systems |
| 04:44.18 | Arrowmaster | eidolarr: yeah guarantied to be unique, if you use integers you have to do something to make sure you dont reuse one |
| 04:44.33 | Amarande | because in such works, destruction and preservation only ever seem to be balanced because preservation has some sort of impossible unobtainium that functions as a bulwark against any weapon however strong |
| 04:44.43 | Amarande | something which science seems to suggest -cannot even be conceived let alone created- IRL |
| 04:45.00 | Amarande | an ultimate weapon of destruction is possible, an ultimate bulwark of preservation is impossible ... |
| 04:45.16 | eidolarr | ok thanks Arrowmaster and Iriel |
| 04:45.18 | Amarande | except insomuch as it is possible to create something to destroy the ultimate weapon of destruction pre-use |
| 04:45.23 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: I hear you. I had to intervene on a _child's_ behalf outside a mall near my apartment about a year after I moved there. About 1/3 of the people tell me I did wrong by intervening in someone else's buisness, and about a third tell me I was wrong for risking my own skin |
| 04:45.26 | Amarande | but then you're back to the power of destruction |
| 04:45.40 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: when common sense and basic human decency have become "anarchist" qualities, you know humanity has jumped the shark. Sadly, I think we did that shortly after coming down from the trees. |
| 04:45.49 | Kraps | Zarhym: "As others have suggested, if you're that skeptical about the Real ID feature you should probably use it extremely sparingly. You are ultimately in control of the information you give out. That has never changed." |
| 04:45.49 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: So, 2/3 of the population can fuck right off. I don't watch an adult beat the _hell_ out of what looked like a 5-7 year old kid without getting in their way |
| 04:45.51 | eidolarr | hahaha |
| 04:45.57 | eidolarr | "humanity has jumped the shark" that is excellent |
| 04:46.01 | Amarande | heh |
| 04:46.02 | Amarande | sooo |
| 04:46.10 | Dagmar | Good thing for me the cop who arrived saw things my way as well |
| 04:46.19 | Amarande | are good and evil equal, or is evil in fact the all-consuming, all-powerful force of the universe and good is just a bunch of pigheads? |
| 04:46.42 | Dagmar | Amarande: I have a hard time really defining either of thsoe things as absolutes |
| 04:46.47 | NightHawkTheSane | neither |
| 04:46.54 | kd3 | that depends on what invisible best friend in the closet you believe |
| 04:46.59 | NightHawkTheSane | and people who try to define them as anything are really part of the problem |
| 04:47.12 | NightHawkTheSane | good and evil are little more than descriptors of what you do. |
| 04:47.16 | NightHawkTheSane | be good. end of story. |
| 04:47.36 | Fisker | moar |
| 04:47.38 | Fisker | mooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaar |
| 04:47.48 | Arrowmaster | really its the difference between morals and ethics |
| 04:48.00 | Amarande | which are two completely different axes, as well |
| 04:48.05 | Amarande | another thing I've noticed |
| 04:48.06 | Arrowmaster | but related |
| 04:48.13 | Amarande | the Law/Chaos axis is considered MUCH more important now than the Good/Evil |
| 04:48.17 | Dagmar | Generally the best I can do is to define them in the scope of one's relation to one's "tribe", whatever scope that might mean at the moment. Neighborhood, family unit, genomic subdivision, planet, etc |
| 04:48.18 | Amarande | but no idea as to why this should be the case |
| 04:48.35 | Arrowmaster | look up the definitions if you dont understand what i mean by the difference between them |
| 04:48.46 | Dagmar | Amarande: because consistency is starkly different from unpredictability |
| 04:48.48 | Amarande | unless order really *is* more important, and will continue to grow in importance vs. goodness, in terms of survival |
| 04:48.58 | Dagmar | They might be useless, but at least they're definable |
| 04:49.12 | kd3 | entropy is bad, mm'kay? |
| 04:49.13 | Amarande | and, indeed, we must march continuously towards states of ever more stifling order to survive as the population grows |
| 04:49.32 | Dagmar | Only because of wasted resources |
| 04:49.36 | Amarande | to the point that eventually, we'll reach the point that only completely controlled, absolutely totalitarian order is necessary to keep the population alive |
| 04:49.44 | Amarande | and then we'll pass that point, and be doomed to entropy no matter what we do |
| 04:49.47 | Dagmar | We wouldn't need as much order if we could be more efficient in our resource usage |
| 04:50.13 | Amarande | it does seem that the greater the population of a nation, the more totalitarian it seems to be :| |
| 04:50.33 | Dagmar | Heh. That would explain China quite neatly |
| 04:50.35 | Amarande | China has less freedom than the United States, which (since 2001) has had less freedom than many smaller countries, etc. |
| 04:50.45 | Amarande | India is kind of a spanner in that model though |
| 04:50.59 | Arrowmaster | i counter that by directing you to some south american and african countries |
| 04:51.07 | kd3 | ^ |
| 04:51.09 | kd3 | ^^^^^ |
| 04:51.16 | Dagmar | Judging from the stuff reported about India, I think they're cheating there. They seem to have just elected to ignore big chunks of the place. |
| 04:52.03 | Fisker | kd3 |
| 04:52.03 | Fisker | i came |
| 04:52.03 | kd3 | news to me |
| 04:52.10 | Fisker | naw |
| 04:52.18 | Fisker | Fallout: New Vegas will be using Steamworks |
| 04:52.51 | Jerub | dath'remar still down. |
| 04:52.59 | Jerub | it'd better be up by 12:01 moon time. |
| 04:53.08 | kd3 | was about to say, it's not 12:01 yet |
| 04:53.22 | Fisker | but it is |
| 04:53.24 | kd3 | it's hardware maintenance. they do this for every battlegroup before new expansions |
| 04:53.29 | kd3 | not where it counts it isn't |
| 04:53.43 | Jerub | (hence me saying 'moon time' ...) |
| 04:54.11 | Amarande | what exactly do women's periods have to do with server maintenance, Jerub |
| 04:54.27 | Jerub | Amarande: i don't know. ASK BLIZZARD. |
| 04:54.46 | Jerub | who think phrases like "GMT LOCAL TIME" mean something |
| 04:54.56 | Jerub | or that anyone knows what PST or PDT is. |
| 04:55.26 | eidolarr | programming question: in a lot of langauges (C++, Java, etc), opacity is generally considered a valuable quality in well designed code |
| 04:55.30 | Arrowmaster | i know what PST and PDT are |
| 04:55.37 | eidolarr | but in the context of wow addons, that doesn't seem to be the culture, it seems to be more of "why bother" |
| 04:55.40 | eidolarr | why is that? |
| 04:55.46 | Arrowmaster | opacity? |
| 04:55.52 | kd3 | public/private |
| 04:56.11 | eidolarr | is it just the scale of the projects? |
| 04:56.37 | Arrowmaster | well for one, the majority of addons are created by mouth foaming idiots that cant understand the concept of global by default |
| 04:56.47 | Torhal | Key phrase: "well designed code" |
| 04:56.52 | kd3 | most mods aren't written by people writing "well-designed code" |
| 04:56.53 | Fisker | i'm dead kd3 |
| 04:56.54 | Torhal | Where the fuck do you see that in most AddOns? |
| 04:56.56 | Torhal | :D |
| 04:57.29 | Amarande | there's also the fact that addons force you to use an OO language |
| 04:57.34 | Amarande | and not everyone is cut out for the OO approach |
| 04:57.35 | Arrowmaster | no they dont |
| 04:57.36 | Torhal | o.O |
| 04:57.40 | eidolarr | well even when I ask here about how to hide certain variables the answer has been "don't worry, don't overengineer it" |
| 04:57.42 | Torhal | What. The. Fuck. |
| 04:57.43 | Arrowmaster | Lua is not an OO language |
| 04:57.45 | kd3 | er, no... |
| 04:57.48 | NightHawkTheSane | er, what? |
| 04:57.54 | eidolarr | OO has very little to do with opacity |
| 04:57.57 | kd3 | if you use AceOO stuff, maybe |
| 04:57.59 | eidolarr | and Lua is not OO |
| 04:58.04 | eidolarr | you should go back and think about what you've done |
| 04:58.24 | Adys | GOD i love nvidia. |
| 04:58.26 | Amarande | well, the notion of "public/private" really doesn't exist as such outside of OO coding, no? |
| 04:58.28 | Adys | 50 fps on a laptop |
| 04:58.30 | kd3 | public/private is orthogonal to structural/object-oriented |
| 04:58.34 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 04:58.40 | Torhal | eidolarr: Most AddOns aren't of a scope to require more than basic procedural design, is why. |
| 04:58.51 | kd3 | s/structural/procedural/ |
| 04:58.54 | Fisker | kill |
| 04:58.58 | Torhal | Don't over-engineer is correct. Only when you get to a larger scope should you even try. |
| 04:59.02 | Amarande | Adys, did you get one of those high end dells with the quadro mobile chip? :) |
| 04:59.06 | Adys | no |
| 04:59.10 | Adys | cheap $700 laptop |
| 04:59.22 | eidolarr | are libraries like Ace3 more careful about it to prevent sloppy designers from depending on transient internal mechanisms? |
| 04:59.37 | Dagmar | Used laptops that can play WoW decently are falling in the $500 rangw now |
| 04:59.37 | Torhal | That's kinda the point. |
| 05:00.08 | Amarande | Dagmar: speaking of used laptops |
| 05:00.17 | Amarande | I REALLY wish ebay would make more subcategories |
| 05:00.18 | Amarande | specifically |
| 05:00.19 | Arrowmaster | eidolarr: not really, if somebody uses Ace3 without undering standing it they probably just created something even worse than if they hadnt |
| 05:00.25 | Amarande | keep the "broken for parts" ones separate |
| 05:00.31 | Dagmar | When your'e writing code that could potentially be asked to exist for weeks from one instantation, you really wanna be serious about scoping and free crap as quickly as possible. |
| 05:00.36 | Amarande | every time I go browsing there, I have to sift through 50 million "broken, for parts" listings |
| 05:00.48 | Dagmar | When it's an "addon" that might run for 12 hours or less, who effing cares if you lose a few bytes here or there |
| 05:01.17 | Fisker | hey Dagmar |
| 05:01.20 | eidolarr | I'm thinking more about the software design angle |
| 05:01.21 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 05:01.25 | Fisker | hey sylvanaar |
| 05:01.36 | Dagmar | Amarande: Have you tried to look for a netbook with an SSD on it? I had to actually search for the smallest category possible and just forget about whether or not there might be one with a 64gb SSD in it |
| 05:01.40 | eidolarr | like what if the gearscore guy groped around at internal AceEvent structures, then a later update broke gearscore? |
| 05:01.46 | Dagmar | They could definitely use better categories |
| 05:01.48 | sylvanaar | swear he is a bot |
| 05:01.52 | Dagmar | moar granulatiry |
| 05:02.00 | Amarande | I've never really looked at netbooks |
| 05:02.08 | Amarande | they look wimpy and limited for a computer these days :S |
| 05:02.09 | Shadowed | You can shoot yourself in the foot by touching internals of Ace3 if you really want |
| 05:02.14 | Torhal | eidolarr: People using a library shouldn't EVER muck about with its internals. |
| 05:02.17 | Shadowed | nobody stops you from doing it |
| 05:02.23 | Dagmar | Amarande: they |
| 05:02.27 | Torhal | Unless you actually know what you're doing, which the GS author doesn't |
| 05:02.27 | kd3 | netbooks aren't designed for heavy use |
| 05:02.34 | Dagmar | Amarande: With SSDs they're a godsend for wardrivers |
| 05:02.35 | Amarande | eidolarr: then there would be much cheering about GS being b0rked :) |
| 05:02.40 | Arrowmaster | eidolarr: i have bitch slapped people publicly for doing stuff like that |
| 05:02.49 | Shadowed | The job of a library is to provide tools to help the developer, not protect themselves from incompetent developers |
| 05:02.50 | Amarande | wardrivers? |
| 05:02.51 | Dagmar | Netbooks are not meant as a primary terminal. They're meant as a portable terminal for when you're on the run lots |
| 05:03.04 | kd3 | Amarande, searching for unsecured wireless networks, typically in a moving car |
| 05:03.05 | Dagmar | Amarande: People who wanna run code to scan for wireless activity while they drive around |
| 05:03.05 | Torhal | And even when you know what you're doing, you're going to fuck other people over by mucking with library internals |
| 05:03.12 | eidolarr | so the size of the community keeps it from becoming a problem? I know some larger projects outside of wow have had serious problems with backward compatibility because of lousy developers |
| 05:03.16 | Shadowed | Not to mention, the entire concept of a library makes it impossible to hide the innards |
| 05:03.24 | Shadowed | basically, yes eidolarr |
| 05:03.24 | Amarande | kd3: sounds shady |
| 05:03.30 | Dagmar | The ones looking for _just_ unsecured APs aren't really being all that scientific |
| 05:03.35 | Amarande | Dagmar: definitely shady |
| 05:03.44 | Shadowed | The issue is a social one, not a technical one |
| 05:03.47 | kd3 | ~wiki wardriving |
| 05:03.54 | Arrowmaster | eidolarr: well libraries in wow are different than other places since they are truely global |
| 05:03.55 | Shadowed | solving a social issue with a technical fix works poorly |
| 05:04.01 | Shadowed | but that too |
| 05:04.08 | eidolarr | Shadowed: well it works ok for java right |
| 05:04.19 | Torhal | I mean, hell: C++ doesn't protect from idiocy and pure maliciousness even with its private/protected paradigms. |
| 05:04.21 | Fisker | hey Shadowed |
| 05:04.21 | Dagmar | Me, I want to know about every wireless signal I can see, so I can tell how many people are being idiots by percentage and by area |
| 05:04.24 | Arrowmaster | nothing about java is 'ok' |
| 05:04.30 | Dagmar | Plus you pick up some really weird crap near osme service trucks |
| 05:05.11 | eidolarr | fine, C++ |
| 05:05.11 | Shadowed | I've not really played with java, but the simple fact is, it's impossible to completely stop a developer from shooting themselves in the foot with internals |
| 05:05.11 | Shadowed | and you shouldn't |
| 05:05.11 | Shirik | did someone say C++? |
| 05:05.11 | Shadowed | If someone is stupid enough to mess with the internals, they get what they get |
| 05:05.11 | eidolarr | Shadowed: I agree in general but it seems like public/private works pretty well and seamlessly at it, as long as the library developer has a solid esign |
| 05:05.11 | Shirik | C++ is awesome |
| 05:05.11 | Shirik | wins |
| 05:05.11 | Shirik | goes to sleep |
| 05:05.11 | Shadowed | It does |
| 05:05.11 | kd3 | "in C, it's really easy to shoot yourself in the foot. In C++, it's a little harder, but when you manage to pull the trigger, you blow off your whole leg" |
| 05:05.20 | Shadowed | I'm not saying you should put every piece of code in the public scope, but you can't hide it all either |
| 05:05.31 | Torhal | kd3: Isn't that bastardized? I remember the original being FORTRAN instead of C++ |
| 05:05.38 | Shirik | A language is not supposed to protect you |
| 05:05.39 | Shadowed | If you can spend a few seconds and close off some code, great. Don't spend hours and hours and a complicated design trying to solve it thought |
| 05:05.43 | Shirik | it's supposed to make what you want to do easy |
| 05:05.48 | kd3 | w/e. it's still true |
| 05:05.49 | Shirik | and C++ is that language |
| 05:06.23 | Shirik | sleeps |
| 05:06.25 | Torhal | Shirik: I was just saying that even though C++ is much more strict than Lua, its mechanisms don't protect against idiocy or asshattery. |
| 05:06.31 | eidolarr | alright interesting stuff guys, thanks |
| 05:06.44 | Shirik | Torhal: As it shouldn't :) |
| 05:06.47 | Torhal | Indeed |
| 05:06.49 | Arrowmaster | i always get the impression that OO design is like that, trying to put bubble wrap around everything by having to use functions to do anything to one object from another object |
| 05:07.08 | Shirik | Arrowmaster: It's really about abstraction |
| 05:07.09 | Dagmar | That's not really hte point of OO |
| 05:07.14 | Shadowed | OO is like everything else :p |
| 05:07.18 | Shadowed | you can use it well |
| 05:07.20 | WobWork | it's more about 'what you don't need to know' |
| 05:07.22 | Shadowed | or you can use it stupidly |
| 05:07.29 | Shirik | wjat WobWork said |
| 05:07.48 | Fisker | hey Shirik |
| 05:07.49 | Dagmar | OO would have died in it's infancy if it were only about protecting objects from other objects |
| 05:07.57 | Amarande | hahah |
| 05:07.58 | Amarande | http://bobshouseofvideogames.com/2010/06/04/a-pretty-accurate-description/ |
| 05:08.04 | Dagmar | The BIG thing is scopes like a russian nesting doll and attribute inheritance |
| 05:08.10 | Shirik | I really wish I could go into what I do at work with regards to OO; done correctly it really is an amazingly beautiful sight |
| 05:08.20 | Shirik | with regards to reusability, etc. |
| 05:08.24 | Arrowmaster | also part of the reason i think attempts at a complete OO framework in Lua are complete idiocy, the language isnt designed for it completely |
| 05:08.26 | WobWork | Dagmar: only if those objects used avada kedava or whatever =) |
| 05:08.31 | Dagmar | You're probably using the wrong approach if you're using OO *just* for protections |
| 05:08.38 | eidolarr | Arrowmaster: I used to think of it like that too, but then in my kernel I took the time to use accesors and setters everywhere (it was very verbose), and it was extremely nice when I needed to totally redesign PCBs |
| 05:08.45 | Fisker | why won't you hey me Shirik ? |
| 05:08.50 | Shirik | hey Fisker |
| 05:08.52 | Shirik | now seriously, sleep |
| 05:09.05 | eidolarr | Arrowmaster: why not? it seems like table-indexed local tables of table->fieldvalue achieves private variables |
| 05:09.22 | Fisker | it's 7am |
| 05:09.24 | Fisker | why should i sleep? |
| 05:09.41 | Shirik | me sleep |
| 05:09.42 | Shirik | bai |
| 05:09.51 | Fisker | bai u |
| 05:09.54 | Fisker | i love u |
| 05:10.23 | Arrowmaster | eidolarr: you can mimic it yeah but you dont get the full thing, like one major one is that OO languages use large amounts of compiler optimizations to do inlining, Lua doesnt |
| 05:10.59 | sylvanaar | im going nuts trying to find the bug in my Lua parser |
| 05:11.31 | eidolarr | Arrowmaster: i'm unconvinced that performance is a poignant argument against OO in Lua |
| 05:11.38 | eidolarr | sylvanaar: what language is it in? |
| 05:11.45 | Amarande | which game is this? http://bobshouseofvideogames.com/2010/05/27/video-game-lol-ardraug-morkano-the-fierce/ |
| 05:11.46 | sylvanaar | java |
| 05:11.54 | sylvanaar | eidolarr: ^ |
| 05:11.54 | Arrowmaster | eidolarr: then you werent around for the days of KLHThreatMeter |
| 05:12.18 | Fisker | i will end you Arrowmaster |
| 05:12.18 | sylvanaar | KLH used polling |
| 05:12.24 | eidolarr | Arrowmaster: I was but I was afraid of the code |
| 05:12.40 | eidolarr | to my understanding it was sloppy design more than an inherent flaw of OO |
| 05:13.37 | eidolarr | I think if it wasn't for frames being necessarily globally visible you could do public/private very effectively in wow |
| 05:13.43 | Arrowmaster | right but the design was trying abstract everything out sorta like OO |
| 05:13.45 | eidolarr | er globally accessible |
| 05:14.00 | Arrowmaster | frames dont have to be globally accessible |
| 05:14.03 | eidolarr | well sure you can do OO poorly |
| 05:14.14 | eidolarr | I thought you could iterate over frames, or get a handle on ones you mouseover |
| 05:14.21 | Arrowmaster | you can |
| 05:14.35 | eidolarr | so you can't hide frames |
| 05:14.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Jelly-Laptop (~odiusxpop@76.255.79.153) |
| 05:14.44 | eidolarr | i'm saying if you could hide frames, everything else can be hidden |
| 05:14.45 | Arrowmaster | they dont have to have a global name in _G though |
| 05:14.49 | eidolarr | "hidden" meaning "inaccessible" |
| 05:14.54 | eidolarr | oh, yeah |
| 05:15.04 | Torhal | You can hide frames within a scope. |
| 05:15.13 | Kraps | http://cannotbetamed.blogspot.com/2010/04/tree-form-cooldowns.html |
| 05:15.14 | Torhal | They're just tables with Blizzard-side C access |
| 05:15.32 | eidolarr | but then they can get a handle by mouseover or iterating I thought |
| 05:15.34 | Iriel | You can make your stuff "un-findable" but you can't make it "un-reachable" unless you dont want it to DO anything |
| 05:15.36 | eidolarr | Iriel mentioned it |
| 05:16.00 | Arrowmaster | theyre just tables with a special key,value in them |
| 05:16.07 | Torhal | eidolarr: Eh, that's true but going out of the way and not something a typical AddOn will do. |
| 05:16.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Jelly-Laptop (~odiusxpop@adsl-76-255-79-153.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 05:16.17 | eidolarr | Arrowmaster: and global functions returning refernces to them |
| 05:16.30 | Iriel | You can even cheat and make your frame references invisible |
| 05:16.32 | Amarande | so, anyone recognize which MMO that Bob's House URL I posted is from? |
| 05:16.37 | Iriel | But if you register a script, they can find you |
| 05:16.39 | Amarande | I can tell it's not WoW, but I'm not at all sure which one it *is* |
| 05:16.55 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: first comment said LotRO |
| 05:16.59 | eidolarr | Torhal: yeah it's not a practical problem but you could have perfectly closed state with private frames |
| 05:17.03 | Amarande | wow |
| 05:17.11 | Amarande | LOTRO looks more and more like wow every time I see something about it |
| 05:17.19 | Dagmar | Amarande: EQII and you suck |
| 05:17.23 | Arrowmaster | EVERYTHING looks like wow |
| 05:17.33 | *** join/#wowuidev WobWork (~Wobwork@136.136.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 05:17.44 | Dagmar | Amarande: No wait.. May well be LOTRO. |
| 05:17.52 | Dagmar | The font is almost hte same between 'em |
| 05:18.07 | Dagmar | (took me a bit to scroll up to find the URL) |
| 05:18.31 | Dagmar | That red text tho... The thing could be Vanguard |
| 05:22.16 | Amarande | I wonder if I've ever had this guy in one of my PUGs ... http://bobshouseofvideogames.com/2010/05/08/video-game-lol-animal-abuse/ |
| 05:23.11 | sylvanaar | do you guys think these are good default colors for syntax hilighting global/local vars ttp://i46.tinypic.com/1ryygx.png |
| 05:23.22 | sylvanaar | s/ttp/http/ |
| 05:23.45 | WobWork | not very identifiable |
| 05:23.50 | WobWork | as being local |
| 05:24.05 | WobWork | oh |
| 05:24.22 | WobWork | looks fine as a function |
| 05:24.27 | WobWork | I guess? |
| 05:24.53 | sylvanaar | can you tell which are local and which are global? |
| 05:25.03 | sylvanaar | or should i pick another color |
| 05:25.17 | WobWork | not in the first line |
| 05:25.22 | WobWork | but after that, it looks fine |
| 05:26.07 | sylvanaar | declarations aren't colored - they arent local officially until after the declaration (i think) |
| 05:26.58 | sylvanaar | i suppose its a bug in the hilighter, i can't decide |
| 05:27.35 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@d86-33-7-18.cust.tele2.at) |
| 05:28.13 | Iriel | You should try: local x = x; |
| 05:28.18 | Iriel | the first x is local, the second is global |
| 05:28.26 | Iriel | (Unless there was a preceding local x) |
| 05:28.45 | Arrowmaster | well there is a difference between 'local f = function() end' and 'local function f() end' |
| 05:29.13 | Iriel | actually local f = function() return f end and local function f() return f end |
| 05:29.29 | Arrowmaster | right |
| 05:29.29 | Iriel | the returned f in the first is global, second local |
| 05:30.19 | Arrowmaster | because 'local function f() return f end' is the same as 'local f; f = function() return f end' |
| 05:30.52 | sylvanaar | http://i48.tinypic.com/2corg50.png |
| 05:30.59 | sylvanaar | maybe those colors are better too |
| 05:32.15 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 05:32.31 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy2 (~Mike@c-68-38-51-80.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 05:35.53 | sylvanaar | i suppose i need to color the declarations |
| 05:38.53 | sylvanaar | ugh this bug is killing me, im so close to being done with this parser |
| 05:40.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (~Vilkku@86-60-145-155-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi) |
| 05:41.17 | WobWork | Cairenn: http://www.scodal.com/uploads2/irrelephant.jpg |
| 05:41.23 | Cairenn | hehehe |
| 05:42.13 | Cairenn | <3 WobWork |
| 05:42.13 | *** join/#wowuidev krka (krka@bissa.eu) |
| 05:43.19 | Amarande | Heya Cairenn :) |
| 05:43.49 | Cairenn | hi Amarande :) |
| 05:48.07 | Iriel | Finally.. http://www.vigilance-committee.org/wow/downloads/random/Bookworm2-window.jpg |
| 05:49.12 | WobWork | Iriel: hehe I thought it was the iphone game |
| 05:49.14 | Adys | Iriel: what about it? |
| 05:49.20 | Iriel | (I'll note that addon has *NO* images, the window is spliced together from blizzard pieces. |
| 05:49.33 | WobWork | Iriel: no better slider bar image? |
| 05:49.57 | Iriel | I haven't skinned it yet, it's proportional, unlike the wow ones |
| 05:52.46 | *** join/#wowuidev krka (krka@bissa.eu) |
| 05:58.25 | *** join/#wowuidev akhe (~akhe@0x573fa156.ronqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 05:58.51 | *** join/#wowuidev krka (krka@bronzon.pi.se) |
| 06:02.56 | Fisker | so how can it be Iriel ? |
| 06:03.16 | Iriel | ? |
| 06:03.33 | Fisker | idk |
| 06:03.48 | Fisker | to my defense i haven't slept for a day |
| 06:03.58 | Iriel | I suggest that perhaps you sleep then? |
| 06:04.03 | Fisker | can't :( |
| 06:04.21 | Fisker | it's too hot |
| 06:04.39 | Iriel | No A/C? |
| 06:04.48 | Fisker | no |
| 06:04.56 | Iriel | Fan and a fairly light sheet? |
| 06:04.59 | Fisker | ~weather ekch |
| 06:05.08 | Fisker | :D |
| 06:05.16 | Fisker | heat needs to suck less |
| 06:05.24 | Fisker | even if it's only 13c |
| 06:05.37 | Iriel | How is that hot? |
| 06:05.49 | Thunder_Child | 93% humidity |
| 06:06.02 | Iriel | The humidity is certainly at the 'unpleasant' level |
| 06:06.10 | Fisker | dunno if that is relevant here :P |
| 06:06.14 | Thunder_Child | any more and you would be bathing |
| 06:06.16 | sylvanaar | at 53 deg F that s like 1 drop of water in the air |
| 06:06.32 | sylvanaar | or 57 |
| 06:06.44 | Thunder_Child | 14c not 13 |
| 06:06.46 | Fisker | sucks to be a ginger daywalker |
| 06:07.12 | Thunder_Child | ~weather klax |
| 06:07.31 | Thunder_Child | hmm...feels hotter than that |
| 06:07.37 | Iriel | ~weather kccr |
| 06:07.46 | Thunder_Child | though lax is closer to the ocean than i am |
| 06:07.47 | Iriel | Wow, I got the airport code right |
| 06:08.31 | WobWork | ~weather YSSY |
| 06:09.25 | Fisker | also i should really stop watching like 2-3 crime tv shows because i can't sleep |
| 06:09.29 | Fisker | not really helping :P |
| 06:09.47 | Iriel | Right where I am it's 67 F outside and about 84 F inside |
| 06:11.28 | *** join/#wowuidev akhe (~akhe@0x573fa156.ronqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 06:12.53 | Adys | kd3: Well, d3d client with mostly medium settings, wow running at 35-40fps avg |
| 06:13.00 | Adys | it still OOM-crashes after a while |
| 06:13.31 | Fisker | that's impossible! |
| 06:13.48 | Adys | kd3: (laptop ofc) |
| 06:16.08 | Vilkku | hmm, I'm supposed to update the recruitment status of our guild |
| 06:16.19 | Vilkku | is a pve dps warrior arms or fury? :P |
| 06:18.02 | WobWork | can be both, no? |
| 06:18.18 | Vilkku | hmmk |
| 06:18.28 | WobWork | I don't know, tbh, my warrior is only 40 |
| 06:18.42 | WobWork | but my guildmate and I are levelling with different trees |
| 06:19.22 | Fisker | fury |
| 06:19.26 | Fisker | is pve dps |
| 06:20.37 | Jerub | my warrior is a tank and i loves him soooo much |
| 06:20.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@pool020.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 06:20.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 06:28.10 | WobWork | Jerub: any advices for newbie warrior tanking? |
| 06:28.19 | WobWork | just got dual spec |
| 06:29.26 | Jerub | WobWork: level 40? |
| 06:29.31 | WobWork | aye |
| 06:29.39 | Jerub | WobWork: done the berserker quests yet? |
| 06:29.45 | WobWork | yep |
| 06:29.54 | WobWork | (in that I have the stance...) |
| 06:29.56 | Jerub | i'd not known about them. ;) |
| 06:30.22 | WobWork | I remember because in my first guild, we went on a guild trip to BESERKER ISLAND when our guild warrior got the quest =) |
| 06:30.28 | WobWork | and almost drowned =) |
| 06:30.36 | Jerub | okay, uh, shockwave whenever it's off CD, have vigilence up on the loser who pulls off you, sunder armor/devastate, and for the love of god never miss a chance to hit revenge. |
| 06:31.03 | WobWork | kk, I don't think I have Vig yet, or devestate |
| 06:31.07 | WobWork | but the rest I can do! |
| 06:31.09 | Jerub | yeah, so it's sunder. |
| 06:31.19 | Jerub | you should have two stuns too. |
| 06:31.25 | WobWork | shield bash |
| 06:31.26 | Jerub | the one with the longer CD is better threat. |
| 06:31.27 | WobWork | and um |
| 06:31.34 | WobWork | that new one |
| 06:31.38 | Fisker | wtf |
| 06:31.40 | Jerub | yeah. talent one. |
| 06:31.53 | Jerub | concussive blow? |
| 06:31.53 | Fisker | Voice Search is diiiiiiiiiirty |
| 06:31.55 | Jerub | something like that. |
| 06:32.11 | Fisker | Apparently it thought i searched for "teen ####(fuck?)" |
| 06:32.26 | Fisker | well thanks a lot google now i'm on every police watchlist |
| 06:32.34 | Jerub | WobWork: shield slam is the other one to look out for. i hit that whenever i can too |
| 06:32.39 | Jerub | massive threat, does a dispell, etc. |
| 06:33.01 | Jerub | in UK i hit it before revenge because everything you fight has a buff |
| 06:33.59 | Jerub | WobWork: ZorbaBeta is a much better warrior than I too. |
| 06:34.03 | Jerub | but i've levelled recently. |
| 06:34.15 | Jerub | went from 30->73 in the last 3 months |
| 06:35.48 | Iriel | sleeps. |
| 06:37.30 | Jerub | WobWork: also, don't bother with changing stances for charge. i never did in classic |
| 06:37.42 | Jerub | and you get a talent that lets you use both charges later. |
| 06:39.10 | *** join/#wowuidev zenzio (~zenzio__@85.19.77.194) |
| 06:39.14 | Fisker | slaps zenzio around a bit with a large trout |
| 06:40.21 | Thunder_Child | LIKE A BOSS! |
| 06:40.26 | WobWork | Warbringer! |
| 06:40.28 | Fisker | yeah |
| 06:40.30 | WobWork | or whatever it's called =) |
| 06:41.24 | zenzio | well this sounds interesting |
| 06:45.14 | Fisker | i'm interesting |
| 06:47.36 | zenzio | "iPhone 4 Taking Games to 'Next Level,' says Developer" - I like how they don't use plural... and anyhow, one single developer clearly knows what he's talking about! |
| 06:49.29 | haste | what's google's dns stuff? |
| 06:49.54 | haste | I kinda killed my resolve.conf.head just as I remembered that I don't pick up local dns :P |
| 06:49.58 | WobWork |  8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 |
| 06:49.58 | Fisker | 8.8.8.8 |
| 06:50.00 | Fisker | 8.8.4.4 |
| 06:50.03 | Fisker | ffffffffffuuuuuuuuu- |
| 06:50.04 | haste | ty |
| 06:50.15 | WobWork | pats Fisker |
| 06:50.16 | Fisker | you should hurt yourself for not being able to remember it haste |
| 06:50.27 | WobWork | or for not googling it =) |
| 06:50.46 | WobWork | although I guess without dns, you might have issues |
| 06:51.12 | haste | yeah, I could have used my phone |
| 06:51.34 | Adys | !google dns |
| 06:51.35 | batbot | Adys: Domain Name System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_Name_System> |
| 06:51.37 | Adys | !google google dns |
| 06:51.38 | batbot | Adys: Google Public DNS <http://code.google.com/speed/public-dns/> |
| 06:51.40 | Adys | !google google dns ips |
| 06:51.40 | batbot | Adys: Using Google Public DNS <http://code.google.com/speed/public-dns/docs/using.html> |
| 06:51.47 | WobWork | ~x de en Zwischen mir und meinem Mann wir mehr MP3-Player über die Jahre |
| 06:51.47 | haste | doesn't help |
| 06:52.00 | haste | ~google-dns |
| 06:52.25 | Adys | !google what are google dns ip |
| 06:52.25 | batbot | Adys: Using Google Public DNS <http://code.google.com/speed/public-dns/docs/using.html> |
| 06:52.25 | Adys | :( |
| 06:52.25 | Adys | ~dns |
| 06:52.27 | Adys | purl, factinfo dns |
| 06:52.27 | purl | dns -- it has been requested 2 times, last by pcj at Fri Nov 21 10:46:58 2008. |
| 06:53.23 | Adys | purl, dns is Domain Name System - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_Name_System - Google DNS: 8.8.8.8/8.8.4.4 - OpenDNS: 208.67.222.222/208.67.222.220 |
| 06:53.29 | Adys | ah. |
| 06:53.46 | haste | fancy |
| 06:53.48 | WobWork | dns www.google.com |
| 06:53.51 | Adys | purl, google dns is at 8.8.8.8, 8.8.4.4 |
| 06:53.52 | WobWork | ~dns www.google.com |
| 06:54.00 | Adys | purl, googledns is at 8.8.8.8, 8.8.4.4 |
| 06:54.01 | purl | Adys: okay |
| 06:54.21 | Adys | purl, opendns is at 208.67.222.222/208.67.222.220 |
| 06:54.22 | purl | Adys: okay |
| 06:54.23 | Adys | stops the spam |
| 07:06.47 | Fisker | slaps haste around a bit with a large trout |
| 07:06.57 | Fisker | you damn norwegians are late |
| 07:07.07 | haste | wat |
| 07:07.11 | Fisker | 9. juni 2010 02:57 Ankommet til 704 Københavns Pakkecenter |
| 07:07.16 | Fisker | you should be ashamed |
| 07:07.31 | haste | packages usually go across the country in a day! |
| 07:07.45 | Fisker | oh they did |
| 07:07.57 | Fisker | but they're usually there around midnight |
| 07:11.00 | Fisker | so what should i do haste ? |
| 07:11.03 | Fisker | i'm bored |
| 07:26.00 | Adys | ~bazinga |
| 07:26.01 | purl | http://instantbazinga.com/ |
| 07:28.17 | Jerub | checks realmstatus forum |
| 07:28.24 | Jerub | dath'remar still down |
| 07:30.54 | mascondante | Authentication servers too so you're not gonna be able to get into anything, even the forums ;-) |
| 07:31.25 | Fisker | i took a shit |
| 07:31.38 | mascondante | congratulates Fisker |
| 07:32.40 | Fisker | thank you |
| 07:34.07 | mascondante | yw |
| 07:34.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Xyphoid (~xx@202-154-156-234.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz) |
| 07:40.00 | Jerub | that's nuts |
| 07:40.12 | Jerub | they started the auth maintance at 11pm going to 2am |
| 07:40.20 | Jerub | but the 24 maintenance ends at 12:01am |
| 07:40.21 | Jerub | so uh |
| 07:40.26 | Jerub | guys? this isn't helpful. |
| 07:41.03 | zenzio | helpful in what way? |
| 07:44.03 | Jerub | zenzio: in the way that lets me play wow |
| 07:44.21 | zenzio | I'm just confused, are you asking us to fix the servers? |
| 07:45.25 | haste | so it's 26h downtime total instead of 24h? |
| 07:49.50 | mascondante | That's what they are saying. Blizzard isn't hardly ever known to be punctual so keep that in mind. |
| 07:52.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Alram (~Marla@fabe.xs4all.nl) |
| 07:53.52 | Adys | "We're adding new capabilities all the time. With this functionality (unofficially named "chromoting"), Chrome OS will not only be great platform for running modern web apps, but will also enable you to access legacy PC applications right within the browser. We'll have more details to share on chromoting in the coming months." |
| 07:54.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Sum_Wun (~sumwun@72.183.41.75) |
| 07:54.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (~kalroth@mail1.retailplanit.com) |
| 07:54.26 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 07:54.51 | zenzio | chromoting... they couldn't come up with a less silly name? |
| 07:55.03 | Adys | it's an internal name.. |
| 07:55.11 | Adys | anyway this is RDC on steroids |
| 07:55.37 | zenzio | what do they consider "legacy PC applications"? |
| 07:56.19 | Adys | apps from another desktop |
| 07:56.49 | zenzio | Windows, Linux, Mac? I'm not trying to say I think it's a bad idea, it just sounds vague |
| 07:57.22 | Kalroth | Chromotion would have been better! |
| 07:58.15 | Adys | zenzio: as i said, it's RDC on steroids |
| 07:58.34 | Kalroth | eww, its python |
| 07:58.38 | Kalroth | http://src.chromium.org/svn/trunk/src/remoting/chromoting.gyp |
| 07:58.45 | Adys | thats gyp |
| 07:58.48 | Adys | their installer |
| 07:58.52 | Kalroth | o |
| 07:58.56 | Kalroth | eww, its python |
| 07:59.18 | Adys | this is json :P |
| 07:59.32 | Adys | ish |
| 07:59.36 | Adys | its json-compatible python |
| 07:59.42 | Kalroth | eww, its python |
| 07:59.51 | zenzio | pyson |
| 08:00.02 | zenzio | or jhon |
| 08:00.08 | Kalroth | gyp is short for gypsy isnt it |
| 08:01.05 | Adys | kalroth |
| 08:01.05 | Adys | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSYPYq9D_No&feature=youtu.be |
| 08:01.22 | Kalroth | Bear is badass |
| 08:01.44 | Adys | Kalroth: im not sure you wanna click that link tho |
| 08:01.46 | Adys | theres PY in it |
| 08:02.06 | Kalroth | eww, its python |
| 08:02.23 | Adys | Kalroth, you know what else is python? |
| 08:02.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 08:02.30 | Adys | thongs shaped like Pi |
| 08:02.30 | Kalroth | your pants?! |
| 08:02.34 | Adys | close |
| 08:02.55 | Kalroth | man thongs are okay in my book though |
| 08:02.58 | Adys | http://www.cafepress.co.uk/+pi+womens-thongs |
| 08:03.02 | Adys | waowh. |
| 08:03.10 | Adys | I didn't even realize. |
| 08:04.50 | mascondante | Kalroth: I have a feeling you don't like python lol |
| 08:06.42 | mascondante | since everything's still down I guess I'll go back to my vb book. Hoping by the time I get done I'll have enough general knowledge to finally grasp Lua. |
| 08:06.54 | Kalroth | eww, its vb |
| 08:07.06 | Adys | eww it's vb |
| 08:07.29 | Xyphoid | lua is simpler than vb, that sounds like an odd approach |
| 08:07.30 | mascondante | yeah I know. But I think it's a good place to start for the total newb |
| 08:07.40 | Adys | no, it's not |
| 08:07.49 | Adys | whoever told you it was is an ass |
| 08:08.07 | Adys | lua is a great language to start with, one of the best actually |
| 08:08.43 | mascondante | well it has been a while since I looked at the book. I'll take another look. |
| 08:08.46 | Adys | if you arent into embedded stuff go with python, if you're into web stuff try out javascript |
| 08:09.18 | Adys | (not that javascript is a good starting language but it still teaches you the basics and a hefty deal of syntax) |
| 08:09.33 | Kalroth | and if you want to make an easy and fast local win32/64 program, go with visual basic |
| 08:10.11 | Adys | people who start with vb tend to stay with vb and waste their entire life with that retarded language |
| 08:10.17 | Kalroth | see, Repo was made in python and lua |
| 08:10.24 | Kalroth | and he crashes all the time |
| 08:10.30 | mascondante | my first goal is to help with a certain addon. My friend wants me to help maintain his part. |
| 08:10.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 08:10.40 | Adys | then what do you need vb for :P |
| 08:10.48 | Adys | lua is very simple to grasp |
| 08:10.52 | Xyphoid | you know you can write lua without needing WoW to be up right? |
| 08:11.16 | mascondante | I'm totally new to it so I know nothing |
| 08:11.27 | Adys | ~lua |
| 08:11.29 | purl | Lua is a powerful light-weight programming language designed for extending applications. It is often used as a configuration language. See http://www.lua.org/. Note: Lua is not an acronym. It is the Portuguese word for "moon". |
| 08:12.38 | Adys | read up a bit of lua.org doc, wowprogramming.com for the wow api stuff and you'll grasp all you have to know before tomorrow |
| 08:13.14 | Xyphoid | here's your assignment, write a program to add up all the numbers from 1 to 1000 |
| 08:15.05 | mascondante | Xyphoid: ... k. I know how to do that in VB. Let me see what I can do. |
| 08:16.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Alram (~Marla@fabe.xs4all.nl) |
| 08:16.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@dsl4E5C018A.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 08:17.07 | mascondante | So I'm guessing Lua for Windows is what I want to test stuff out? |
| 08:17.36 | jnwhiteh | if you unfortunately use windows, Lua for Windows would give you a start |
| 08:18.50 | Torhal | Lua for Windows is, last I asw, compiled for Brazillian localization - this means commas and periods are reverse of U.S. notation for math. |
| 08:18.55 | Torhal | s/asw/saw/ |
| 08:19.05 | krka | Xyphoid: n * (n + 1) / 2 ? |
| 08:20.15 | mascondante | Torhal: I think it's been updated. There's an older version that's flagged not recommended |
| 08:21.20 | Torhal | I'd hope so - it made doing stuff for WoW rather unpleasant. |
| 08:21.32 | Torhal | Well, using luac that is |
| 08:21.59 | *** join/#wowuidev pnorman (~pnorman@d66-183-42-220.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 08:22.26 | Xyphoid | krka: (ssh heh) |
| 08:23.06 | *** join/#wowuidev durcyn (~durcyn@WoWUIDev/Durcyn) |
| 08:26.14 | mascondante | It would be nice to be able to do this stuff from visual studio but I don't want to go and complicate things. |
| 08:26.34 | zenzio | with lua there's little reason to use something as big as VS |
| 08:27.40 | krka | intellij and sylvanaars lua plugin is pretty nice :) |
| 08:29.13 | zenzio | http://roflrazzi.com/2010/06/08/celebrity-pictures-keanu-reeves-think-eat/ |
| 08:30.48 | mascondante | krka: don't think I've seen that |
| 08:33.35 | krka | http://i48.tinypic.com/2corg50.png |
| 08:33.40 | krka | it's pretty hot! |
| 08:34.51 | *** join/#wowuidev DJJeff (~crazyjeff@S0106001e582ff89c.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 08:35.08 | DJJeff | Ackis: I play star trek online |
| 08:35.12 | DJJeff | also.... |
| 08:35.25 | DJJeff | everyone else: is doing this wrong? ( http://i46.tinypic.com/2kf18n.jpg ) |
| 08:36.47 | Alram | wrong no |
| 08:36.55 | DJJeff | ok ty |
| 08:37.01 | Alram | maybe kind of bad |
| 08:37.03 | Alram | yes |
| 08:37.45 | DJJeff | cause owners of these "private servers" are power hungry..... i can mute kick ban and fuck with anyone that plays on my servers |
| 08:37.49 | Torhal | krka: WTF is that nonsense? :D |
| 08:37.51 | DJJeff | which is there right todo |
| 08:38.01 | Alram | mostly due to the spyware threat, which you wont make happen |
| 08:38.27 | DJJeff | oh I have some fancy SSH access to 1 of his servers |
| 08:38.37 | Torhal | DJJeff: Dude, don't talk about private servers here. Cairenn will skin your arse. |
| 08:38.54 | DJJeff | I am against private servers |
| 08:39.11 | Torhal | Then stop connecting to them - you're breaking the ToS. |
| 08:39.25 | Alram | ^ |
| 08:39.37 | Cairenn | and stop talking about them in here |
| 08:39.40 | DJJeff | what else do I do on tuesdays when realms go down for maintnince |
| 08:39.49 | Alram | DJJeff, go outside? |
| 08:39.49 | DJJeff | go outside |
| 08:39.54 | DJJeff | and see the sun |
| 08:40.03 | DJJeff | I have no life.... I play wow |
| 08:40.06 | DJJeff | enough said? |
| 08:40.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (~Wobin@124-171-254-95.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 08:40.20 | Alram | People that go "I have no life because I play wow" are dumb |
| 08:40.42 | krka | nonsense? |
| 08:40.45 | DJJeff | its hard to "not talk about them" when they do exist stareing you in the face |
| 08:41.00 | Cairenn | DJJeff: You've been asked nicely and warned once. Drop it |
| 08:41.02 | DJJeff | and if they didn't would more ppl play retail? |
| 08:41.15 | Alram | sigh |
| 08:41.27 | DJJeff | its an honest question |
| 08:41.35 | krka | kickban! do it! go go go |
| 08:41.35 | Alram | no |
| 08:41.37 | Alram | get out |
| 08:42.19 | DJJeff | hrmmmmm oh well back to my addon hunting and updating then |
| 08:42.31 | Cairenn | a hypothetical question as the one just asked is fine |
| 08:42.50 | DJJeff | I am not here to cause trouble |
| 08:42.57 | DJJeff | I am here to seek answers |
| 08:43.31 | DJJeff | if I wanted to cause trouble I would seek a couple botnets but I am among friends here |
| 08:44.16 | Alram | oh god not this again |
| 08:44.34 | DJJeff | has this happend before? |
| 08:44.41 | Alram | yeah, on another channel |
| 08:44.45 | Alram | but im off to vote |
| 08:45.50 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@c-68-33-146-13.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 08:45.51 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 08:51.53 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 09:03.32 | DJJeff | vote for bush and not for..... |
| 09:04.43 | DJJeff | ~seen cremor |
| 09:05.18 | purl | cremor <i=557c6b5f@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-6041c7c2c4b5c45b> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowace, 522d 20h 33m 52s ago, saying: 'yes, maybe. i noticed that too that the wowace projects page is down half the time. but whats weird is that the cc works great for any type (alpha/beta/release) up until some days ago. so if i now change one addon from beta to alpha it loads the alpha correctly. but this alpha was created some time ago ... |
| 09:05.57 | DJJeff | ~seen danielbarron |
| 09:05.58 | purl | danielbarron <i=d99b3c65@gateway/web/freenode/x-937af95b75b8a40c> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowace, 336d 1h 19m 31s ago, saying: 'I see thanks. I thought it was a status symbol like @'. |
| 09:05.58 | DJJeff | ooooooooo servers should be up now |
| 09:06.26 | DJJeff | dang purl how long you been alive |
| 09:06.31 | DJJeff | thats long time ago |
| 09:07.07 | Maldivia | it's not that hard to persist a database even if the bot crashes... |
| 09:07.23 | DJJeff | true |
| 09:07.31 | DJJeff | it may grow quite large no? |
| 09:08.15 | Maldivia | well, a timestamp, a name and a message |
| 09:08.20 | krka | that's what she said |
| 09:08.29 | DJJeff | ouch |
| 09:08.30 | Maldivia | so 512 bytes at max per entry |
| 09:08.33 | DJJeff | I set you up for that |
| 09:08.38 | sylvanaar | good morning (again) |
| 09:08.42 | krka | morning |
| 09:09.06 | DJJeff | my C:\Documents and Settings\<windows acct>\Application Data\mIRC\logs\*\*\* |
| 09:09.09 | sylvanaar | my attempt at sleep was only partially effective |
| 09:09.18 | krka | i thought of another feature sylvanaar - highlighting where a variable was defined when the cursor is at a usage |
| 09:09.22 | DJJeff | tottals about 70MB |
| 09:09.37 | DJJeff | over a span of maybe 6 months worth |
| 09:10.08 | DJJeff | not alot in size.... but tons of text to search |
| 09:10.13 | DJJeff | thats for sure |
| 09:10.31 | Maldivia | well, for a seen database, you only need the newest message, no need to store everything for that |
| 09:10.37 | sylvanaar | krka: thats a good idea |
| 09:10.55 | DJJeff | ah see I didn't know that |
| 09:10.58 | DJJeff | thanks Maldivia |
| 09:11.48 | krka | basically the same idea as the ctrl-b |
| 09:11.51 | Maldivia | and since the irc protocol dictates a max message size of 512 bytes (which includes sender, recipient, message type and message) then that's a max of 512 bytes per name, so it won't grow that big |
| 09:11.58 | krka | but showing it before actually clicking |
| 09:13.50 | sylvanaar | krka: i need to figure out how references work exactly, and get at least one working |
| 09:14.20 | sylvanaar | krka: im sort of learning as i go - this is my first plugin lol |
| 09:15.06 | sylvanaar | right now there is still some bug with commas in a few types of statements |
| 09:15.18 | krka | just throwing out some ideas |
| 09:15.25 | sylvanaar | i like them |
| 09:16.17 | DJJeff | more and more realms are comming online :) |
| 09:16.24 | DJJeff | here we go folks |
| 09:16.46 | sylvanaar | you know having the parser combined with the compiler is really handy, you dont have to do another analysis of the AST |
| 09:17.13 | DJJeff | only 50ish realms down out of 243 |
| 09:23.11 | sylvanaar | i found my bug - some of the identifiers are being treated as whitespace |
| 09:24.39 | krka | that's bad! |
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| 09:31.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Disk (~TOAST@75.133.165.170) |
| 09:32.00 | sylvanaar | makes no sense |
| 09:32.41 | sylvanaar | i mean - its the luaj parser, and all the tokens i feed in are supposed to be non-whitespace |
| 09:33.05 | sylvanaar | the whitespace must be tokens that are skipped |
| 09:37.25 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 09:43.12 | sylvanaar | wow, this bug could actually be in the lexer - this is crazy |
| 09:45.38 | Xyphoid | mmm empty auction house |
| 09:47.00 | Xyphoid | 4/5 of my glyphs are up at the cap |
| 09:47.26 | zenzio | what cap? |
| 09:48.02 | Xyphoid | 80g |
| 09:50.31 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 09:52.31 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 10:00.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Grum` (~grum@codebase2.xs4all.nl) |
| 10:10.26 | sylvanaar | well, off to work |
| 10:13.57 | Wobin | bahg |
| 10:14.01 | Wobin | my site is still down =( |
| 10:14.04 | Wobin | er server |
| 10:14.09 | Wobin | (s) |
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| 11:09.32 | *** part/#wowuidev pZipp2 (~pzipp1@0x555164d5.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 11:32.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 11:33.29 | sioraiocht | haste: http://www.firstshowing.net/2010/06/04/watch-this-crazy-trailer-for-euforia-films-norwegian-ninja/ |
| 11:34.41 | industrial | loooool |
| 11:35.11 | Fisker | industrial |
| 11:35.14 | Fisker | your sons dog |
| 11:35.34 | sioraiocht | =p |
| 11:36.26 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@d86-33-7-18.cust.tele2.at) |
| 11:38.28 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar_atwork (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 11:38.47 | sylvanaar_atwork | good morning |
| 11:40.39 | zenzio | I've heard Treholt be called a lot of things, but not a ninja o_O |
| 11:42.17 | krka | sylvanaar_atwork: have you considered using the same default colors as Java code? like instance variable color <=> global variables, java keywords <=> lua keywords (it seems to actually already be the same for keywords and strings and numbers) |
| 11:42.19 | Fisker | YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES |
| 11:42.24 | Fisker | google navigation in denmarkj |
| 11:42.26 | Fisker | denmark* |
| 11:42.28 | Fisker | lalalala |
| 11:43.00 | sylvanaar_atwork | krka: yeah, i have, actually it does try to use the same ones |
| 11:43.23 | sylvanaar_atwork | krka: let me take a look and see how many are different |
| 11:43.25 | Fisker | hey haste |
| 11:43.47 | zenzio | 3D is so great: http://www.snotr.com/video/4262 |
| 11:44.44 | krka | maybe it's only global / local variables that differ |
| 11:44.48 | krka | let me check comments |
| 11:44.58 | Alram | Fisker, hi! |
| 11:45.24 | krka | yup, same for comments |
| 11:45.42 | krka | maybe this is perfect as it is actually, since global variables don't really have a match in java |
| 11:46.04 | krka | maybe table keys could be instance variables? |
| 11:46.15 | krka | t.foo <=> this.foo |
| 11:46.17 | krka | if that makes sense |
| 11:50.18 | Fisker | slaps Alram around a bit with a large trout |
| 11:50.27 | Alram | :( |
| 11:50.29 | Fisker | so what can you do haste ? |
| 11:57.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (amarande@68-191-37-155.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 11:57.59 | Amarande | wow, you poor sods on Dath'Remar |
| 11:58.18 | Amarande | meanwhile: Silvermoon is back up. Need to decide between this and Misha for rolling Alliance on ... |
| 11:59.01 | Spejnar | is aoe grinding as a pally tank still as awesome as it used to be? |
| 11:59.04 | Amarande | (or is it? the forum said it was back, the realms list on worldofwarcraft.com says otherwise) |
| 11:59.11 | Amarande | Spejnar: aoe grinding as a pally tank is always great fun |
| 11:59.24 | Amarande | especially when you get to laugh at the squishies who can't do it because they can't take the hits |
| 11:59.28 | Spejnar | ^^ |
| 11:59.45 | Spejnar | then I need to get a BoA 1h and a shield with spike, meh, guess ill wait to 40 or something |
| 11:59.59 | Amarande | meh, boa weapons |
| 12:00.05 | Amarande | I'm starting to wonder why I bought mine |
| 12:00.06 | Amarande | oh wait |
| 12:00.11 | Amarande | because there isn't that much else to do with SKS |
| 12:00.23 | Spejnar | 2.7 speed 1h |
| 12:00.26 | olafski | buy mounts with SKS ;) |
| 12:00.27 | Spejnar | reckoning, pew pew |
| 12:00.52 | Spejnar | oh right, you can buy weaps with SKS also, never done tbh, always use triumps |
| 12:00.55 | *** join/#wowuidev boshi23 (~chris@c-68-36-37-83.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 12:01.10 | olafski | why do you need a slow weapon for reckoning =( |
| 12:01.11 | Amarande | Spejnar: when you do, EG constantly complains about you using a "PvP item" |
| 12:01.26 | zenzio | I use SKS whenever I can for heirlooms... since I have like a million SKS |
| 12:01.33 | olafski | I'd say 2.0 speed is optimal for reckoning |
| 12:01.57 | Spejnar | haha, yeah I've noticed that on my tank, using the pvp cloak while gearing, its like 136 stam so I couldnt care less |
| 12:02.36 | Spejnar | I love the groups that deny me icc25 with 40k ub outside ICC, I get like close to 60k buffed inside, PUGs really suck so bad I start to cry |
| 12:03.11 | Amarande | Spejnar: EG also says I'm perfectly ready for ICC10, but good luck getting a raid with the GS whores demanding at least 300 more GS than I have usually |
| 12:03.12 | zenzio | you have 40'000 Underbogs? |
| 12:03.35 | Spejnar | I sure have |
| 12:03.41 | Spejnar | Im 50% chinese |
| 12:03.55 | Spejnar | Amarande: they require 5.6k for 8 bosses icc10 |
| 12:03.59 | Spejnar | no wonder they cant kill shit |
| 12:04.04 | Spejnar | they are obviously retards |
| 12:04.25 | olafski | so why do you bother if you're so much better |
| 12:04.33 | olafski | surely you're in a world top 10 guild |
| 12:04.47 | Spejnar | nope, not atm, but we are decent |
| 12:04.53 | Spejnar | I dont pug icc10, simple |
| 12:04.54 | olafski | yet you pug |
| 12:05.02 | Amarande | Spejnar: my more conspiracy theory minded side thinks that's partially to drum up business |
| 12:05.05 | Spejnar | no, we pug icc25 a few guilds, starting HMs now |
| 12:05.18 | Spejnar | icc10 we are only 11/12 hm |
| 12:05.20 | Spejnar | 10* |
| 12:05.22 | Amarande | since those are the people who have the rep and have been spending their saronites on patterns, and want people to have to buy the ICC crafts |
| 12:05.42 | olafski | as usual your conspiracy theory minded side amazes me amarande :P |
| 12:05.49 | Amarande | well, consider this |
| 12:05.59 | Amarande | the only real way to *get* that high of a GS before hitting ICC itself |
| 12:06.09 | Amarande | unless you're doing TOGC25 regularly, maybe |
| 12:06.12 | olafski | maybe they only want people who have done ICC? |
| 12:06.14 | Amarande | is to buy 264 BoE's |
| 12:06.19 | Spejnar | you dont get 5.6k with full toc25 even |
| 12:06.38 | zenzio | let's consider the options: 1) conspiracy among early ICC raider-crafters 2) idiots leading PUGs |
| 12:06.44 | zenzio | which sounds more plausible? |
| 12:06.48 | Spejnar | I'd vote for 2 |
| 12:06.53 | olafski | maybe they want a smooth quick run instead of the "normal" way you're supposed to do it |
| 12:06.57 | Amarande | which primarily come from those ICC crafts |
| 12:07.17 | Spejnar | have you ever been in a icc10 overegeared pug that actually kills stuff? I sure havnt |
| 12:07.24 | Spejnar | -e |
| 12:07.34 | olafski | I've never been in icc |
| 12:07.40 | Amarande | zenzio: how about "early ICC raider-crafters that farmed their ashen verdict cheaply instead of learning the boss fights and doing it weekly, and thus are now idiots leading PUGs who want to make back the money they could have made by selling those saronites instead of buying patterns with them" |
| 12:08.04 | Spejnar | or lets call it a conspiracy by the Bush administration |
| 12:08.06 | Spejnar | probably as likely |
| 12:08.14 | jnwhiteh | Karl Rove. |
| 12:08.15 | jnwhiteh | Clearly. |
| 12:08.19 | zenzio | Amarande: you must really not subscribe to "the easiest answer is usually right" |
| 12:08.31 | zenzio | you want conspiracies, go play the AH |
| 12:08.40 | Spejnar | or they can spend an hour total "learning" all the boss fights. Not like shit is complex nor hard in ICC |
| 12:08.43 | Amarande | zenzio: I cut myself shaving with Occam's Razor. We're not on good terms anymore. :( |
| 12:08.48 | Spejnar | hahah |
| 12:10.05 | Amarande | gah what's with this doomy gloomy threatening-to-thunder weather all the time lately around here |
| 12:10.20 | Amarande | it's just taunting me for spending 12$ on spf 110 sunscreen, that's what |
| 12:10.23 | olafski | it's raining here.. I feel suffocated |
| 12:10.43 | Spejnar | we got "meh" weather atm |
| 12:10.47 | Spejnar | its fluxating like crazy |
| 12:10.52 | Amarande | I hope this doesn't persist into july and september |
| 12:11.10 | Amarande | I have trips to take, LaGuardia is delay ridden enough without there needing to be thunderstorms |
| 12:12.12 | Amarande | I miss the good old days of flying Delta out of Kennedy |
| 12:13.14 | Spejnar | Anyone know an updated horde aoe grinding guide? Should work for both mages and pally tanks pref. ^^ |
| 12:13.29 | zenzio | why would you grind horde? |
| 12:13.31 | Amarande | but ... Delta's web design fails to the point of it being impossible for me to order a proper ticket, and their prices have spiked, too |
| 12:13.37 | Spejnar | u teh funny man, hoho |
| 12:13.47 | olafski | why would you grind |
| 12:13.52 | olafski | LFD to 70 |
| 12:13.55 | zenzio | Spejnar: more precisely, how does horde and alliance differ when it comes to AoE grinding? |
| 12:14.24 | Spejnar | well some zones are more or less annoying for one side |
| 12:14.36 | Amarande | Spejnar: not past 30 or so |
| 12:15.11 | Spejnar | Anyone know an updated aoe grinding guide? |
| 12:15.11 | Spejnar | better? |
| 12:16.13 | olafski | I can write you one |
| 12:16.15 | olafski | "don't do it" |
| 12:16.16 | olafski | there, done |
| 12:17.20 | Spejnar | *sigh* |
| 12:18.37 | olafski | if you want to waste time leveling that's fine, maybe someone has a guide for that :) |
| 12:18.47 | olafski | I hear amarande is good at it ;) |
| 12:19.31 | zenzio | is it leveling or gold (or materials) you want to grind? |
| 12:19.36 | Amarande | hey nao :P |
| 12:19.49 | olafski | are you denying it amarande? :P |
| 12:24.59 | Spejnar | lvling |
| 12:25.06 | Spejnar | and no, I dont wanna spam LFD on these chars |
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| 12:27.48 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
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| 12:54.46 | mikma | cairenn: http://pics.kuvaton.com/bshit/01.gif |
| 12:55.05 | Cairenn | :) |
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| 12:58.16 | olafski | lol |
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| 13:11.29 | zenzio | I like my code how I like my women; well-formed and doing my bidding |
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| 13:13.48 | Lopeppeppy | zenzio, you're a bad monkey. No soup for you. |
| 13:14.10 | zenzio | hey, I stare at code all day, I'm allowed to vent my feelings towards it |
| 13:14.18 | theorbtwo | zenzio++ |
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| 13:15.21 | alestane | Heart's apparently in reruns, but I always loved this one: http://www.gocomics.com/heartofthecity/2010/06/09/ |
| 13:17.11 | olafski | hm paying for extra character slots? |
| 13:17.32 | zenzio | if they end up doing that, I think that's the way to go |
| 13:17.50 | zenzio | I can see enough players wanting it, but I imaigne there are also enough like me who don't have a need for them |
| 13:18.16 | olafski | hm I guess you could say that it's a bit of extra server load so you could pay for that if you need it |
| 13:18.20 | olafski | I for one would love it :P |
| 13:19.22 | zenzio | I'm not sure how hard/bad it would be on the servers, so my opinion (entirely unfounded on any economical knowledge) would be provide it at $/€ 5/slot |
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| 13:20.00 | foxlit | zenzio: the actual cost is far, far less. |
| 13:20.16 | zenzio | in the western world, the actual cost for everything is way less |
| 13:20.23 | zenzio | but we're used to paying |
| 13:20.33 | foxlit | Storage is cheap, it's the concurrency that's expensive -- but by adding character slots, you only increase storage costs, since you can still only log one slot at a time. |
| 13:20.51 | zenzio | still, if they went with $1/slot, I wouldn't complain; it's their call |
| 13:21.35 | olafski | yeah.. they can do what they want, that storage would cost next to nothing |
| 13:21.51 | theorbtwo | The extra cost for them is trivial, but that's not terribly relevant, it's a matter of revenue maximization. |
| 13:22.22 | theorbtwo | They will set the price, p, so that the number of slots purchased, n, maximizes p*n. |
| 13:22.38 | zenzio | my $5 opinion is based only on the cost of other paid services for WoW |
| 13:22.55 | theorbtwo | The cost to the producer is irrelevant when they have a monopoly on supply. |
| 13:23.11 | olafski | theorbtwo++ :) |
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| 13:45.38 | Shirik | man |
| 13:45.48 | Shirik | I actually feel bad for judges now |
| 13:46.22 | Shirik | I just had to write a set of restrictions imposed as a sort of judgement and it was very painful to get the perfect wording |
| 13:46.30 | Shirik | there was always a loophole or "what if" |
| 13:46.40 | zenzio | so you wrote it in rhyme |
| 13:46.53 | Shirik | ?? |
| 13:47.07 | zenzio | you didn't? You should have! |
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| 13:51.22 | Lopeppeppy | There will always be a way that a rules lawyer can "what if" your loophole. *hug* |
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| 13:58.08 | industrial | sylvanaar_atwork: just throwing this at you; highlight usages of element at caret |
| 13:58.30 | sylvanaar_atwork | industrial: good idea |
| 13:59.10 | sylvanaar_atwork | it'd be like VisualAssist |
| 14:00.49 | Shirik | omg visual assist <3 |
| 14:01.00 | Shirik | how did I ever live without thee |
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| 14:04.02 | industrial | I'm trying out IntelliJ RedMine right now for work. I might buy it. |
| 14:04.14 | industrial | sux cox that I can't dev locally though |
| 14:04.31 | industrial | so can't do a lot of IDE-y things (including no svn :() |
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| 14:08.56 | olafski | http://tissi.apina.biz/full/30652.jpg :-) |
| 14:11.55 | haste | :-) |
| 14:13.29 | olafski | I like the first two panels |
| 14:23.53 | Shirik | industrial |
| 14:23.55 | Shirik | go with perforce |
| 14:24.06 | Shirik | it's like SVN on steroids |
| 14:24.12 | Shirik | with all of the good and none of the bad |
| 14:24.31 | Shirik | It's like git done by someone who wasn't a moron |
| 14:26.03 | jnwhiteh | You don't have any opinions, do you O.o |
| 14:26.17 | airtonix | ~seen fisker |
| 14:26.21 | purl | fisker is currently on #sc2mapster (17h 39m 15s) #wowuidev (17h 39m 15s) #wowace (17h 39m 15s) #wowwiki (17h 39m 15s). Has said a total of 114 messages. Is idling for 2h 35m 52s, last said: 'so what can you do haste ?'. |
| 14:26.28 | industrial | Shirik: not my decision |
| 14:26.57 | Shirik | jnwhiteh: Was that at me? |
| 14:27.02 | jnwhiteh | yes =) |
| 14:27.04 | industrial | basically i'm sshfs mounting a dir with dirs that are 1.5. any local gui tool will be more up to date and fuck the checkout up for me :( |
| 14:27.11 | Shirik | wasn't what I said an opinion? o.o; |
| 14:27.18 | industrial | with .svn/ dirs* |
| 14:27.20 | jnwhiteh | yes, it was sarcasm? |
| 14:27.24 | Shirik | oh |
| 14:27.29 | Shirik | >.> |
| 14:27.36 | jnwhiteh | that being said: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/222782/git-vs-perforce-two-vcs-will-enter-one-will-leave |
| 14:27.37 | jnwhiteh | =) |
| 14:29.01 | Shirik | also |
| 14:29.02 | Shirik | Fisker |
| 14:29.09 | Shirik | I missed a GET at work yesterday :( |
| 14:29.25 | Shirik | I saw "Changelist 59999 renamed 60001 and submitted" and I was like fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu |
| 14:30.08 | Shirik | jnwhiteh: Personally, I think perforce is great for a larger team |
| 14:30.13 | Shirik | git is great for a distributed team |
| 14:30.47 | jnwhiteh | I wouldn't disagree with that, but I need a DSCM for almost all of my needs these days |
| 14:30.52 | jnwhiteh | but that's just my particular experience :p; |
| 14:31.02 | Shirik | There are so many little things in perforce that I just love |
| 14:31.06 | Shirik | like checkouts |
| 14:31.14 | Shirik | which most VCSes seem to ignore these days |
| 14:31.19 | Shirik | just yesterday I had to make a change to about 50 files |
| 14:31.32 | Shirik | because perforce requires checkouts, I knew whose edits I was going to interrupt so I could warn them |
| 14:32.05 | jnwhiteh | *nod* |
| 14:32.07 | Shirik | it doesn't lock the file down (though it could), but it marks it as checked out so everyone knows (and so now there are two checkouts on the file, etc.) |
| 14:32.21 | Shirik | I still can't get over my favorite feature I found two days ago though |
| 14:32.24 | Shirik | shelving |
| 14:32.26 | Shirik | though I hear git has that too |
| 14:32.38 | Shirik | someone showed that to me and I was like "ok that's awesome" |
| 14:32.42 | jnwhiteh | git stash |
| 14:32.46 | jnwhiteh | git stash apply =) |
| 14:33.02 | Shirik | that was enough for me to go "ok I officially concede, svn sucks" |
| 14:33.06 | zenzelezz | Shirik: you need to write fewer, longer sentences, or we will read you incorrectly |
| 14:33.27 | zenzelezz | <Shirik> There are so many little things in perforce that I just love <Shirik> like checkouts <--- I got this far and thought "yeah, cause no other VCS lets you check out" |
| 14:33.52 | Shirik | very few VCSes have a concept of checking out these days |
| 14:34.40 | zenzelezz | perhaps in your stupid new ones; git and whatevertheheck |
| 14:34.47 | Shirik | yeah older ones did |
| 14:34.56 | Shirik | but then people went "oh merging is so much easier" |
| 14:35.00 | Shirik | and it kinda disappeared |
| 14:35.12 | jnwhiteh | in a distributed environment, merging is the only option =() |
| 14:35.16 | Shirik | then perforce came along and was like "no you shouldn't get rid of it" |
| 14:35.23 | Shirik | yeah for git a checkout really makes no sense |
| 14:35.28 | Shirik | who do you go to to see if it's checked out? |
| 14:35.31 | zenzelezz | distributed VCS is for commies |
| 14:35.43 | jnwhiteh | I think you should absolutely still have a checkout in a centralised SCM |
| 14:36.00 | Wobin | hm |
| 14:36.05 | Wobin | git bisect is kinda cool |
| 14:36.34 | Shirik | is git controlled by git? |
| 14:37.53 | jnwhiteh | ? |
| 14:38.13 | Shirik | looks like it is |
| 14:38.20 | jnwhiteh | I'm not sure I understand your questiobn |
| 14:38.22 | Shirik | I was asking if the git source is on git version control |
| 14:38.27 | jnwhiteh | oh yes, ofc =) |
| 14:38.36 | Shirik | that's confusing |
| 14:38.43 | theorbtwo | Of course it is. |
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| 14:39.23 | Wobin | would be silly if it wasn't |
| 14:39.25 | Shirik | well unless Linus also built a time machine, it didn't start there :) |
| 14:39.38 | nicoli_s | i bet if he did it runs windows :P |
| 14:39.51 | Wobin | you don't -need- git to have git in a git |
| 14:39.52 | Shirik | also how would one go about building the first git |
| 14:39.56 | Shirik | you're like |
| 14:39.58 | Wobin | without checking it in =) |
| 14:40.00 | Xinhuan | he probably did it on perforce or something and migrated the commits |
| 14:40.01 | Shirik | "Ok I'm going to build git" |
| 14:40.03 | Shirik | git clone |
| 14:40.04 | Shirik | oh wait |
| 14:40.06 | Shirik | :< |
| 14:40.27 | jnwhiteh | its called bootstrapping =) |
| 14:40.46 | Wobin | You can write enough git on your own til you can check it into itself =) |
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| 14:41.25 | sylvanaar_atwork | bitkeeper! |
| 14:41.36 | sylvanaar_atwork | duh |
| 14:41.43 | Shirik | 5EXAAX7A9 |
| 14:41.48 | Shirik | that name is illegal |
| 14:41.53 | Shirik | please stop violating the IRC protocol |
| 14:42.15 | jnwhiteh | http://git.kernel.org/?p=git/git.git;a=commit;h=e83c5163316f89bfbde7d9ab23ca2e25604af290 |
| 14:42.36 | Wobin | ~lameometer 5EXAAX7A9 |
| 14:42.48 | Shirik | 5EXAAX7A9 is just the unique id assigned by freenode :) |
| 14:42.54 | Shirik | It's a duplicate name of someone already in here |
| 14:42.58 | Shirik | I just don't know who |
| 14:43.07 | Shirik | it's a bug in seven |
| 14:43.43 | Shirik | it's p3lim |
| 14:43.43 | Wobin | p3lim? |
| 14:43.45 | jnwhiteh | the amount of code he had written in the first version is a.) enough to commit his source to the tree and b.) not all that complicated :P |
| 14:44.13 | jnwhiteh | pretty interesting :P |
| 14:44.59 | Shirik | gotta go to work bai |
| 14:45.43 | industrial | bai |
| 14:45.46 | industrial | almost done at work |
| 14:45.49 | industrial | :3 |
| 14:45.57 | nicoli_s | shirik: you goin to blizzcon this year? |
| 14:46.15 | industrial | tonight party! dutch pirate party is having a party ;o |
| 14:46.29 | olafski | for not getting any seats? |
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| 14:46.35 | industrial | public election submissions are today so |
| 14:46.42 | industrial | crosses fingers |
| 14:46.59 | olafski | those seats would be wasted :( |
| 14:47.03 | zenzelezz | no-one will vote you in, sorry industrial |
| 14:47.10 | industrial | I'm votin em in ;o |
| 14:47.30 | olafski | gonna vote tonight.. I wonder how this turns out! |
| 14:47.31 | olafski | bbl :-) |
| 14:48.14 | industrial | zomg moar dutch people crawlin around my internets cornerz |
| 14:49.26 | zenzelezz | dude |
| 14:49.31 | zenzelezz | it's "intarwebs" |
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| 14:54.30 | foxlit | intersites! |
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| 15:18.19 | Wobin | Shirik, http://pics.blameitonthevoices.com/062010/photoshope-clone.jpg |
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| 15:19.32 | nicoli_s | thats crazy wobin |
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| 15:19.58 | xanax` | hi |
| 15:21.36 | nicoli_s | hello |
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| 15:24.07 | pirate | if I have a number like 1.51 how would I seperate the 1 from the 51? |
| 15:24.26 | nicoli_s | do a string split, pretty sure they have that in lua |
| 15:25.36 | Wobin | http://pics.blameitonthevoices.com/062010/internet_vices.jpg |
| 15:25.44 | Wobin | if this is true. What does that make TVTropes? |
| 15:27.38 | nicoli_s | i cant even read the one that is supposed to be bongs |
| 15:28.17 | mikma | me neither |
| 15:28.34 | mikma | diag? |
| 15:29.25 | nicoli_s | ha i just showed it to someone else who said they couldnt understand it :P |
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| 15:35.42 | eidolarr | does anyone here use emacs for lua editing? |
| 15:36.37 | xanax` | i don't. |
| 15:37.27 | 5EXAAX7A9 | what |
| 15:37.34 | mikma | antiarc: tomtom waypoints in HudMap plox |
| 15:37.38 | 5EXAAX7A9 | what the hell happened to my nick |
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| 15:38.36 | p3lim | better |
| 15:38.47 | mikma | no is not |
| 15:39.02 | p3lim | you're not |
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| 15:47.37 | Ackis | so I had to get blodwork done this morning, and I was muttering to myself "1 vial hahahah 2 vials hahaha" etc while it was being done |
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| 15:49.41 | bryno | hello |
| 15:51.48 | Lopeppeppy | I bet you terrified your tech! |
| 15:52.42 | Ackis | she laughed |
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| 16:07.12 | foxlit | Does Grom'gol have a mailbox? |
| 16:09.02 | eidolarr | yes |
| 16:09.04 | eidolarr | by the gate |
| 16:09.27 | foxlit | Ah, I can't interact with it. Outrage. |
| 16:09.53 | foxlit | Not only does running through town flag me for pvp, but I can't get my mail. Evil! |
| 16:09.55 | eidolarr | well are you the right faction? |
| 16:10.07 | foxlit | Of course not :) |
| 16:10.23 | eidolarr | yeah i wish, i've tried that too =( |
| 16:10.33 | eidolarr | but what you can do is jack their bobbing apples during whatever holiday that is |
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| 16:12.00 | foxlit | It's just so strategically located between Zul'wehateyourbags'Gurub and Yojamba Isle. |
| 16:13.24 | nicoli_s | Ackis: to really freak them out, ask if you can take any of your or anyone else blood they dont need home for dinner\ |
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| 16:26.27 | Lunessa | station |
| 16:27.38 | Fisker | busstop |
| 16:27.59 | Thunder_Child | blorb |
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| 16:33.06 | zenzelezz | lua> 7100/13 |
| 16:33.07 | lua_bot | zenzelezz: 546.15384615385 |
| 16:33.24 | Thunder_Child | interesting new design on the backs of pennies |
| 16:33.54 | Lunessa | I totally misread that as "interesting new design for penises" - I need to go back to sleep. |
| 16:34.19 | Lopeppeppy | sweetie, the penis does not need a new design. It's quite functional, IMO. |
| 16:34.21 | foxlit | Hm. |
| 16:34.28 | foxlit | I can't anchor to fontstrings, right? |
| 16:35.12 | Thunder_Child | really Lopeppeppy? there is a reason dildos vibrate |
| 16:35.15 | alestane | Among other things, Peppy, we'd all need to read the new manual, and you know how guys are about reading directions before they try something. |
| 16:35.28 | Lopeppeppy | Happy day, I have an appointment with a naturopath/nutritionist to maybe get me a better diet plan! |
| 16:35.41 | alestane | That would be a good thing if ti works. |
| 16:35.43 | Lopeppeppy | TC, dildos do NOT vibrate. Vibrators vibrate, dildos just sit there. |
| 16:36.11 | foxlit | Hm, soloed ZG for about 10k rep |
| 16:36.11 | Lopeppeppy | Sort of the difference between a boyfriend and a husband, I find... *innocent* |
| 16:36.20 | Thunder_Child | point, however i think vibrators are a subset of dildoes |
| 16:36.27 | foxlit | Kind of a pity, means I need two more runs :/ |
| 16:36.37 | Lopeppeppy | Similar, but not necessarily, TC. |
| 16:36.44 | Fisker | hey foxlit |
| 16:36.45 | Fisker | your sons dog |
| 16:37.03 | foxlit | Ate your homework? |
| 16:37.33 | cog|work | ~hug Cairenn |
| 16:37.34 | purl | ACTION jumps into Cairenn's lap and huggles and *hugs* Cairenn |
| 16:37.38 | Cairenn | hugs cog|work |
| 16:37.39 | Fisker | yeah foxlit |
| 16:37.40 | Thunder_Child | Fisker: your lack of originality offends trolls everywhere. |
| 16:37.44 | Fisker | haks cog|work |
| 16:37.56 | Fisker | that's what your sons dog said yesterday Thunder_Child |
| 16:38.08 | Thunder_Child | exactly my point |
| 16:43.42 | Lunessa | Thunder_Child: I think the meta-set you're looking for is "marital aid" |
| 16:44.18 | Lunessa | huggles Lopeppeppy and Cairenn. |
| 16:44.29 | Cairenn | hugs Lunessa |
| 16:44.37 | Thunder_Child | Lunessa: i think more single people use them |
| 16:45.03 | alestane | A common misconception, Thunder_Child. |
| 16:45.09 | Lunessa | Thunder_Child: I'll grant that as being true, but the term is still the term. |
| 16:45.30 | Lunessa | Thank you Victorian hold-overs. |
| 16:45.40 | alestane | Brought about by the belief that "traditional" sex is *always* preferable if available. |
| 16:45.51 | Lopeppeppy | Marital aid? Heck no. Mood enhancement device! |
| 16:46.55 | alestane | I know one couple who have about nine years and a kid under their belt...they own more sextoys than I'll even try and count. |
| 16:47.25 | Lunessa | alestane: Everyone likes toys. |
| 16:48.27 | Lopeppeppy | No one ever buys me toys! |
| 16:49.17 | Lunessa | Lopeppeppy: I don't generally buy those for ladies who are not in the "circle of people with whom I'm having sex." So you'll need to talk to the b/f about that. |
| 16:49.47 | Lopeppeppy | At great length I shall discussing this! /crusader aura |
| 16:51.27 | cog|work | Crusader aura... that's the one that makes your mount faster? |
| 16:51.50 | alestane | In this case I think it means she's going on a crusade, but that was fairly quick on the ball, cog|work. |
| 16:52.23 | Lopeppeppy | Both could apply. *weg* |
| 16:52.53 | Fisker | Lunessa |
| 16:52.57 | Fisker | hello |
| 16:53.47 | Lunessa | Actually I think that's a malformed closing tag. |
| 16:55.25 | cog|work | "The downside of biking with my mouth open is swallowing a bug. The upside is coughing hard enough to see stars, and then BIKING THROUGH HYPERSPACE!" |
| 16:55.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Cide@hus110a.bobbnet.com) |
| 16:55.40 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 17:03.59 | *** join/#wowuidev batrick (~batrick@batbytes.com) |
| 17:04.35 | cog|work | "[W]ith the use of prosthetic legs, she has learned to drive, ride her bicycle, write with a pen, type and use her cell phone again." ... those are some impressive legs... |
| 17:04.51 | alestane | All at once? |
| 17:05.02 | alestane | I'm pretty sure that violates several local and state ordinances. |
| 17:05.28 | cog|work | http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,594164,00.html |
| 17:05.35 | Lopeppeppy | Wonder what legs have to do with cell phones. |
| 17:05.45 | Fisker | cog|work |
| 17:05.47 | Fisker | you |
| 17:07.53 | alestane | I think those are all things she has learned to do again following her amputations, with the proviso that prosthetic legs were required for some of them. |
| 17:08.13 | Fisker | hey lae |
| 17:08.15 | cog|work | well yeah, i know what was meant, it was just said funny |
| 17:08.15 | Fisker | faik |
| 17:08.58 | Ackis | she's got LEGS! and she knows how to use them! |
| 17:09.36 | nicoli_s | i was lucky to get out of my college vaccinations |
| 17:10.09 | nicoli_s | my pediatrician was a family friend and i guess just didnt feel like doing them so he just signed my paper saying i had them |
| 17:10.22 | foxlit | Someone explain to me the logic of laws requiring you to get vacinations? |
| 17:10.52 | Ackis | because if you don't get them you waste my tax dollars using the health care system when you get sick |
| 17:10.54 | nicoli_s | so that you wont spread it to other college kids? i guess, but then why not in HS and not right before college |
| 17:11.14 | cbreak | a population with imunities above a certain threshold is resistant to an infection |
| 17:11.14 | Cairenn | beats her head against her desk and finds somewhere else to idle while this current topic goes on |
| 17:11.21 | Lunessa | LULZ - "If you're having SQL problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems, but my tables ain't one." |
| 17:11.30 | nicoli_s | haha thats good |
| 17:11.51 | foxlit | Seems weird to legislate to that effect; wouldn't people want to get those if they thought they were useful? |
| 17:11.53 | nicoli_s | Cairenn:simmer, dont beat yerself braindead before i get to meet you :) |
| 17:12.22 | Cairenn | repeat after me: "People are stupid" |
| 17:12.37 | cog|work | foxlit, you're so cute |
| 17:12.44 | cog|work | thinking people actually behave rationally |
| 17:13.00 | nicoli_s | lol |
| 17:13.10 | Dagmar | nicoli_S: I hate you. I wound up getting vaccinated for measles like three freaking times because MTSU couldn't keep their damn paperwork in order |
| 17:13.11 | Ackis | foxlit: there's people that believe vaccines are bad for you, kinda like those who believe in climate change amiright cog|work? |
| 17:13.12 | cog|work | There's a huge anti-vaccination movement |
| 17:13.24 | alestane | There are also weird cases where people come to believe that vaccinations or other precautions are actually negative. |
| 17:13.42 | alestane | Either because they are "unnatural" or because of cases like the autism scare. |
| 17:13.53 | cog|work | s/cases/fabrications/ |
| 17:14.01 | cog|work | ;) |
| 17:14.43 | foxlit | My only real concern is whether what they're doing is actually worthwhile -- what's your chance to contract whatever it is they're vaccinating against in an unvaccinated population? In a voluntarily vaccinated population? |
| 17:14.52 | Ackis | cog|work: you're saying that the few cases of something bad happening are just made up? |
| 17:14.58 | Fisker | slaps cog|work around a bit with a large trout |
| 17:15.01 | Fisker | btw foxlit |
| 17:15.04 | Fisker | we has google nav |
| 17:15.10 | cog|work | Ackis: there are well-known risks to vaccinations. Autism isn't one of them. |
| 17:15.14 | Fisker | Denmark 1-0 Norway (haste) |
| 17:15.24 | alestane | I don't know if the autism "association" constitutes a deliberate fabrication, but there were multiple studies done after it came up and none of them even found a correlation, much less a causal link. |
| 17:15.26 | Ackis | cog|work: ah limiting it to autism /agree |
| 17:15.30 | Lunessa | cog|work: Not all things are fabrications - there are small percentages of people who *are* damaged with vaccination. it happens. It's not cause to give up vaccination, but the *do* happen. |
| 17:15.42 | cog|work | damaged, yes. autism, no |
| 17:16.16 | cog|work | and the damage is like 1 in a million, vs the 1 in thousands who would suffer from the disease if they didn't get vaccinated |
| 17:16.54 | cog|work | here's a nice summary of the whole MMR/Autism debacle in comic form: http://tallguywrites.livejournal.com/148012.html |
| 17:16.55 | Ackis | foxlit: look at polio as a case study for vaccines |
| 17:17.30 | nicoli_s | cog|work:a livejournal, how reputable of a source |
| 17:17.59 | nicoli_s | next youll link us to an archived geocities page |
| 17:18.10 | Lunessa | cog|work: I know one of those one in a million. Very sad. Her entire life was destroyed. I'm still vaccinated. But it doesn't mean I don't want to know what the fuck is in the needle before I let them stick it in my body. |
| 17:18.50 | cog|work | that's kind of a red herring since no one is trying to hide what's in vaccines... |
| 17:20.02 | cog|work | nicoli_s: lol? |
| 17:20.34 | cog|work | "The reference links for the strip are in the next blog entry." |
| 17:21.34 | nicoli_s | lol |
| 17:21.42 | Lunessa | cog|work: I'm not saying they are hiding it. But... I still read the label and look up the contents before getting the injection. Informed consent is the only consent. |
| 17:21.48 | nicoli_s | is that like the blog equivalent of the princess is in another castle? |
| 17:22.14 | cog|work | nicoli_s: i'm not sure where you're coming from... information stands on its own regardless of the source |
| 17:22.25 | cog|work | and it's not like livejournal is the source, it's just a place where people post things |
| 17:22.39 | cog|work | and no, it's not like that at all. |
| 17:22.45 | nicoli_s | i know its just i dont see livejournal links that often so i gotta get the jokes in while i can |
| 17:23.02 | cog|work | Lunessa: i don't see how that's relevant to the convo then ;) |
| 17:23.04 | nicoli_s | one day livejournal jokes will be extinct and no one cares! |
| 17:23.23 | Ackis | IMO the fact that it was posted on LJ makes your argument invalid cog|work |
| 17:23.43 | cog|work | http://www.fallacyfiles.org/taxonomy.html imo ;) |
| 17:24.39 | Dagmar | F**k what the hippies want |
| 17:24.44 | Dagmar | Vaccinate them twice. |
| 17:25.26 | Dagmar | Let them go a generation without vaccination and the first time measles takes out a town they'll wail "WAI DID U NOT VACCINATE US!" |
| 17:25.52 | cog|work | Dagmar: no they won't. they'll be thankful that their bodies were allowed to experience the disease in its natural form |
| 17:26.05 | batrick | sigh |
| 17:26.12 | cog|work | and i'm not saying that in jest |
| 17:26.39 | Dagmar | ...except for hte ones that sue because it made them sterile. |
| 17:26.47 | Dagmar | ...which is probably for the best that they don't breed. |
| 17:26.47 | alestane | Some of them might be... |
| 17:27.44 | alestane | I know someone who insisted on forgoing anaesthetic while her broken leg was set. |
| 17:28.22 | nicoli_s | yech |
| 17:28.26 | alestane | She was very conscientious about it, warned people "Now I'm going to scream a lot, that's normal." |
| 17:28.38 | Dagmar | I can kinda understand that one |
| 17:28.57 | Dagmar | Anaesthetic like that is pretty strong stuff |
| 17:29.39 | Dagmar | If I ever have the type of knee surgery I was scheduled for, instead of them drilling a crapload of holes in the bone, I look forward to "being manly" about it and refusing to take painkillers |
| 17:29.48 | Dagmar | ...cuz I value keeping my head clear. |
| 17:29.55 | alestane | She's also a member of a community that advocates that distressing experiences like severe pain linger in corners of the psyche if you don't let yourself experience them. |
| 17:30.28 | nicoli_s | fuck that gimme the fucking pills!@ |
| 17:30.29 | Ackis | when my toenails were removed, they were so badly infected that the freezing didn't take all that well... doctor thought I was going to break my fingers with how hard I was holding/bending them |
| 17:30.29 | Dagmar | nicoli_s: Being that the pain is so intense it'll cause hallicinations after all that drilling... heh |
| 17:30.49 | Dagmar | er hallucinations |
| 17:30.49 | nicoli_s | oh wait a minute now, i could do some tripping |
| 17:30.50 | Lunessa | I had a long talk with the anesthesiologist (sp?) when I had surgery about the drugs they were going to use to put me under. I had concerns about the hypnotic he was planning to use. When I asked if the there was an alternative, he told me to "STFU." |
| 17:30.50 | batbot | Lunessa, anesthesiologist is correct. |
| 17:30.50 | nicoli_s | you didnt tell me that was an option |
| 17:31.11 | Cide | Lunessa, why? |
| 17:31.19 | Cide | why did you have concerns that is |
| 17:31.57 | Lunessa | Because he thought my concerns about being under the influence of a hypnotic were "not justified" and "you don't have a medical degree." |
| 17:32.06 | Cide | Dagmar, except if you're in a lot of pain a lot of painkillers don't go to your head |
| 17:32.14 | Lunessa | Hypnotics have side effects. |
| 17:32.30 | Dagmar | Cide: Oh rest assured they do |
| 17:32.59 | Dagmar | I've had the heavy-duty knee rebuild twice now. |
| 17:33.08 | Cide | eah |
| 17:33.13 | Cide | yeah* |
| 17:33.15 | Dagmar | I managed to _delevel_ my Wizard in EverQuest |
| 17:33.39 | Cide | clearly the pain is more worthwhile in that case |
| 17:33.40 | Dagmar | I'd wake up... wizard is dead. |
| 17:33.56 | alestane | Painkillers are frequently moderated by pain, since they interact with the pain transmitter chemicals. But they're neurotropics, so some side effects are to be expected. |
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| 17:34.00 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 17:34.22 | Cide | Lunessa, insecure doctors ftl |
| 17:34.25 | Dagmar | If the painkillers werne't making me stupid, I'd have logged out after death #5. |
| 17:34.51 | alestane | And any respectable doctor should at least be prepared to explain to you why he doesn't think you need to be concerned, rather than simply invalidating your feelings. |
| 17:35.01 | eidolarr | Cide: it depends on how annoying he was being, sometimes you just gotta be like "ok enough stfu" |
| 17:35.15 | Cide | yeah |
| 17:35.25 | Cide | I totally believe Lunessa is a whiny bitch irl |
| 17:35.35 | Cide | oh wait that's not it |
| 17:35.43 | Lunessa | Cide: Totally. All kick your ass in person. |
| 17:35.45 | Cide | I wasn't there so who knows |
| 17:36.01 | eidolarr | that's all im saying |
| 17:36.06 | Dagmar | You've always got hte option to say... "You know what... I don't trust you. I'm out." |
| 17:36.11 | eidolarr | daaaamn why you gotta be all puttin words in mouth |
| 17:36.26 | Lunessa | Actually, I'll kick your ass, then buy you shots of liquor. |
| 17:36.34 | Cide | sweet |
| 17:37.10 | Lunessa | Dagmar: Yeah. All I wanted was to know what other options there were. And he told me to go to hell. |
| 17:37.21 | Dagmar | Yeah I'd have called a cab right then an there. |
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| 17:37.48 | eidolarr | i wonder if he gets that a lot |
| 17:37.55 | Dagmar | I got to take a slightly different route about that |
| 17:38.10 | Lunessa | I caved. I needed the surgery and he was already sticking the damned needle inmy arm. |
| 17:38.11 | Dagmar | They originally wanted me to not be knocked out for that surgery. |
| 17:38.34 | Dagmar | I elected they knock me out, and made it clear that I needed to *stay out* for the duration. |
| 17:38.40 | alestane | A lot of the speaker-ready work I get is at medical conferences. One of the first things I learned is that some doctors are dicks about the fact that they're doctors. |
| 17:38.55 | Dagmar | There's some crap that's happened to me in the past that means you want to be VERY out of arm's reach if I wake up "wrong" and feel threatened or endangered. |
| 17:39.52 | Dagmar | I was like "I'll feel sorry about it later, but there's a hell of a lot of damage I could do to people in a small, enclosed space, before I'm awake enough to realize what's going on" |
| 17:39.52 | eidolarr | are you the hulk |
| 17:39.58 | Seerah | Dagmar smash |
| 17:40.15 | Dagmar | No, but I have an abnormal adrenal response.... and I've been through some bad stuff where people acutally _were_ trying to snuff me |
| 17:40.22 | alestane | I heard once that the Armed Forces consider you legally insane for something like 80 seconds after you've woken up. |
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| 17:40.56 | eidolarr | that sounds like a lie or a misunderstanding |
| 17:41.02 | cbreak | some don't get saner after 80 secs. |
| 17:41.07 | eidolarr | like "you're insane if you're awake for a week" |
| 17:41.20 | Dagmar | eidolarr: have you ever stayed up that long? |
| 17:41.42 | eidolarr | you don't have to stay up that long to read a law book... |
| 17:41.55 | eidolarr | i abbreviated it |
| 17:41.55 | Dagmar | That's "immoral" not "insane" |
| 17:42.02 | eidolarr | the rumor is that you are legally insane |
| 17:42.26 | Dagmar | You start hallucinating after about four days... and it's not the fun kind of hallucinations. |
| 17:42.42 | eidolarr | the rumor is usually followed by "so if you want to kill someone stay up a week and do it and you will get off free" |
| 17:42.56 | Dagmar | If you stay up for a week, you'll likely forget all about why you wanted to kill that person. |
| 17:43.10 | eidolarr | unless you tattoo it on yourself |
| 17:43.13 | eidolarr | like in memento |
| 17:43.18 | Dagmar | Your next door neighbor's dog could be the reincarnation of Hitler for all you can tell |
| 17:43.39 | alestane | Heck, I know a guy who took fairly bad care of himself in high school, stayed up for about 76 hours straight programming and other activities. He said his keyboard was color-cycling toward the end. |
| 17:43.57 | Dagmar | alestane: Yeah, I got a bit "stuck" in over-tiredness after some exams once |
| 17:44.05 | alestane | Also, I'd say that pretty clearly constitutes malice and forethought. |
| 17:44.12 | Dagmar | Six and a half days later... I took some goddamn pills |
| 17:44.28 | eidolarr | alestane: it's also not legally correct lol |
| 17:44.52 | alestane | "When you have insomnia, you're never really asleep...and you're never really awake." |
| 17:45.04 | Lopeppeppy | *intense hate* |
| 17:45.07 | Dagmar | same |
| 17:45.16 | alestane | hate for insomnia, Peppy? |
| 17:45.25 | Dagmar | The worst part is by the time you realize just how bad off you are, it's too late to take any damn pills |
| 17:47.06 | eidolarr | i've stayed up for like 3 or 4 days at a time on a few occasions |
| 17:47.23 | eidolarr | no hallucinations but the colors are washed out of the world and you have a hammering headache |
| 17:47.35 | Dagmar | How you like the way stuff starts jumpin out at ya |
| 17:47.40 | Dagmar | Stuff like, couches |
| 17:47.52 | Dagmar | Amaazingly nimble they are, for being so large |
| 17:47.56 | eidolarr | nah that didnt happen to me |
| 17:48.01 | eidolarr | mad eye twitching though |
| 17:48.23 | Lopeppeppy | I lose track of color very quickly. As in, "I wonder what color that traffic light is? Hmmm." |
| 17:48.28 | eidolarr | i didn't have insomnia thank god, just a lot of classwork |
| 17:48.51 | Dagmar | Lopeppeppy: Hehe. Keep an eye on the car next to you and play it cool |
| 17:48.56 | Dagmar | If they go, you go. ;) |
| 17:49.10 | alestane | That can booby-trap you too, Dagmar. |
| 17:49.43 | Dagmar | It's less likely to have a bad outcome than explaining to a cop why you couldn't tell what the signal light said |
| 17:49.43 | Lopeppeppy | That's pretty much my approach. Never be the first car in line, and all is golden. |
| 17:49.47 | alestane | It also assumes that you're in multi-lane traffic. |
| 17:49.59 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (~airtonix@unaffiliated/airtonix) |
| 17:50.14 | Lopeppeppy | alestane... where in Boston do you think I would have a hard time not being first at the lights? So much traffic! |
| 17:50.16 | Lunessa | alestane: I did 5 days straight once. I was hallucinating pretty badly and managed to fall asleep in a doorway while standing up. |
| 17:50.42 | alestane | I've never had reason, nor severe insomnia. |
| 17:51.05 | Lunessa | I've got insomnia issues. |
| 17:51.19 | alestane | I don't count the times it takes me a couple hours to fall asleep, nor the times when I have a fever for four days and drift in and out of dreamstate. |
| 17:51.36 | *** join/#wowuidev malreth (~triti@dhcp-128-83-186-188.its.utexas.edu) |
| 17:52.17 | alestane | The opening comedian at the closing of BlizzCon 2008 talked a lot about his general crazyness. |
| 17:52.55 | alestane | He went on about insomnia for several minutes. |
| 17:54.21 | Dagmar | 'cuz insomnia will make you nuts |
| 17:54.30 | Dagmar | It slowly erodes the sanity |
| 17:54.43 | alestane | He said something like "Insomnia is sort of like lying on a beach watching a wave roll in toward you...and at the moment it's about to crash down over you a little voice says 'I wonder if it's possible to barbeque over a volcano!?'" |
| 17:55.12 | Lunessa | alestane: Yeah... something like that. |
| 17:55.40 | malreth | FINALLY! |
| 17:55.51 | malreth | someone who understands my fascination with volcanoes. |
| 17:55.52 | Lunessa | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv4sfT0tnVA |
| 17:56.10 | Lopeppeppy | Mmm, volcanos! |
| 17:56.15 | Lopeppeppy | Blow things up! Bam! |
| 17:57.12 | alestane | So he outlined the part where you lie there thinking about whether you could dangle your barbeque over it on a sort of fishing pole (the line would probably burn up), then progressed through a few stages to the point where you're sitting up sketching out diagrams for a rocket launcher that would hurl meat over to the other side, putting spin on it so it would cook evenly while in flight. |
| 17:57.29 | Seerah | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDisR_1uq5M |
| 17:57.40 | alestane | That looks like the guy, Seerah. |
| 17:57.45 | Seerah | that is the guy :) |
| 17:57.46 | Dagmar | I suspect that's not insomnia... That's just plain being too crazy to sleep. |
| 17:57.53 | cog|work | malreth: i've always loved volcanoes... the volcano episode of Reading Rainbow was my second favorite (second, of course, to the one where they showed how ST:TNG transporter effects worked) |
| 17:58.09 | alestane | Glitter in a glass of water, cog? |
| 17:58.14 | cog|work | *nod* |
| 17:58.21 | alestane | Wait, that's the original, |
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| 17:58.29 | malreth | cog|work: i don't remember the volcano episode but i do remember the ST episode. |
| 17:58.57 | alestane | "Can you use Microsoft Excel Powerpoint macros 2008?" "No, but sometimes I like to pretend I'm a bird." |
| 17:59.11 | Dagmar | Good answer. |
| 17:59.13 | alestane | Kyle Kinane, yes. |
| 17:59.17 | Dagmar | Never admit to knowing about PowerPoint. |
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| 17:59.32 | cog|work | alestane: TNG was like that too. They dressed it up with computers later on for DS9, voyager, first contact, etc |
| 18:00.18 | cog|work | i wish there were heat proof gloves as thin as latex so i could play around with lava... |
| 18:00.53 | nicoli_s | just use regular gardening gloves itll be fine |
| 18:01.35 | alestane | "I don't think anyone really has a problem with racism here...last presentation there was a woman painted purple riding a turtle. I don't think anyone's too exclusionary here." |
| 18:02.02 | Lunessa | I laughed at that. |
| 18:02.11 | cog|work | one word: gnomes |
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| 18:03.14 | alestane | I forgot the part about the baby and the chicken. |
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| 18:04.27 | Dagmar | THem gnomes is filthy, filthy people |
| 18:05.04 | malreth | i trust gnomes as far as i can throw 'em |
| 18:05.29 | Dagmar | lol |
| 18:05.44 | Lopeppeppy | purrs aggressively at malreth. |
| 18:05.47 | Dagmar | This general lookin' guy on TV saying the BP footage is so high-def it can't be transmitted over RF or the internet |
| 18:05.54 | Dagmar | Maybe he should stop using AOL. |
| 18:06.07 | malreth | Lopeppeppy, i'd throw you gently and lovingly |
| 18:06.17 | Lunessa | I'm fixing to spit fire here in the office. |
| 18:06.47 | Lopeppeppy | Oh you are such a liar, malreth, but I almost believe you! |
| 18:06.56 | Lopeppeppy | gives Lunessa a rice cake to appease his ire. |
| 18:07.11 | malreth | Lopeppeppy: that is a safe position to take |
| 18:07.13 | Dagmar | Be sure and call HR to give them the head's up that the dept is about to have a few new openings they'll need to interview for |
| 18:08.12 | Seerah | be sure to watch Part 2, btw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg2vHKvWhPU&feature=related |
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| 18:09.33 | Lunessa | Dagmar: One of our work/study people has been here for over an hour and hasn't logged into the phone system. She was 20 minutes late. I just caught her distracting two other student employees (who set themselves to unavailable) to show them something on fucking YouTube - forcing me to be the only person active in our call queue. And I'm drowning in work already. |
| 18:10.08 | malreth | Lunessa: that's just plain lazy |
| 18:10.42 | Seerah | Lunessa: ask them why they are there. "oh, WORK/study? work? there's the word "work" in there?" |
| 18:11.11 | Lunessa | This person is on pretty fucking thin ice right now. If I could, I'd have just fired her. |
| 18:11.13 | malreth | back when I worked at a phone support help desk, we were able to take calls, watch videos, and play nintendo 64 (GOLDENEYE) all at the same time |
| 18:11.58 | Dagmar | Bad priorities. Get the queue clear *then* goof around |
| 18:12.19 | Dagmar | ...not referring to you Malreth |
| 18:12.26 | Dagmar | There's help desk guys across the hall from me. |
| 18:12.36 | Dagmar | Some humorless people are the reason they're not allowed to play FPS games anymore |
| 18:12.53 | Lunessa | malreth: I wouldn't be pissed normally, but... this has become habitual for her. |
| 18:13.30 | Lopeppeppy | Are you the supervisor for these do-nothing wonders? |
| 18:13.31 | malreth | Lunessa: sounds like she needs a new habit-- finding a new job. SLAM! |
| 18:15.03 | Lunessa | Lopeppeppy: I don't officially have a supervisory position. |
| 18:15.51 | Lopeppeppy | Crank 'em out, then go find their supervisor and crank him/her out for having to waste your time finding him/her to share info they would *know* if they waltzed by their workers every once in a blue moon.... |
| 18:15.55 | Lunessa | Remarakbly, as soon as I went out front and said something, the call queue dropped to and I can get some of my other work done. |
| 18:16.03 | malreth | Lunessa: I recommend intra-office gossip. |
| 18:17.06 | Lunessa | malreth: Nah, I'm going to complain directly to her boss and point out that the history of poor performance is pretty long and recommend termination. That person will listen to me. |
| 18:17.41 | malreth | "Did you hear that Ms. So-and-so has a poor work ethic?" "GASP! She might be a bolshevik!" |
| 18:18.45 | Lopeppeppy | she might be a muppet! |
| 18:19.05 | malreth | Lopeppeppy: :D |
| 18:19.30 | Lunessa | Comrade! The Party can no longer tolerate you disharmonious activities. You will be sent for re-education. |
| 18:20.00 | malreth | Though I toil greatly, my anguish is but a fist of grain to the State. |
| 18:20.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Mikina (~632153a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.33.83.160) |
| 18:21.12 | Lunessa | Are you the soap scum on the bathtub of the body politic? |
| 18:22.49 | Thunder_Child | "More information about the purpose of software can read for of.sayte in English or in Google" i didnt know google was a language now |
| 18:22.57 | malreth | Nyet. But still, I am summoned to the axe, Trotskyite! |
| 18:23.44 | Lopeppeppy | Google is now every type of word... noun, verb, adverb... all that and a bucket of band engrish. |
| 18:24.58 | Lunessa | malreth: For the glory of the Party, it is my duty to execute you. |
| 18:25.13 | Fisker | haste |
| 18:25.15 | Fisker | you got owned |
| 18:25.22 | malreth | My eulogy is sung by an executioner's blade! |
| 18:26.58 | alestane | "I already paid for the googles, I just want my website on there!" |
| 18:27.21 | *** join/#wowuidev daev` (~bleh@pool-72-86-116-158.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 18:28.03 | Dagmar | Better than having to pay a girl to touch yer googles |
| 18:28.43 | Thunder_Child | alestane: sounds like clients from hell |
| 18:29.09 | alestane | http://clientsfromhell.net/post/660773192/i-already-paid-for-the-googles-i-just-want-my funny how that works. |
| 18:29.29 | Thunder_Child | i know, thats where i read it |
| 18:29.30 | alestane | Along with the dread of "I know what will make this easier… Holograms!" |
| 18:31.23 | alestane | I'm not sure why this is so funny...http://icanhascheezburger.com/2010/06/09/funny-pictures-release-teh-tadpoles/ |
| 18:33.07 | *** part/#wowuidev malreth (~triti@dhcp-128-83-186-188.its.utexas.edu) |
| 18:34.57 | Ackis | fyi frontierville came out today (for all you farmtown addicts) |
| 18:35.12 | Dagmar | Farmville. |
| 18:35.13 | nevcairiel | isnt it farmville? |
| 18:35.23 | nevcairiel | damn you Dagmar |
| 18:35.25 | Ackis | derp |
| 18:35.37 | Ackis | I'm not a farmville addict thankfully :P |
| 18:35.50 | nevcairiel | I'm not even on facebook |
| 18:37.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@dsl4E5C01FC.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 18:42.28 | *** join/#wowuidev malreth (~triti@dhcp-128-83-186-188.its.utexas.edu) |
| 18:45.04 | Fisker | ~seen Antiarc |
| 18:45.43 | purl | antiarc is currently on #wowuidev (1d 10h 35m 42s) #wowace (1d 10h 35m 42s) #curseforge (1d 10h 35m 42s). Has said a total of 5 messages. Is idling for 17h 41m 33s, last said: 'Got distracted'. |
| 18:45.43 | Fisker | btw nevcairiel |
| 18:45.43 | Fisker | we has google nav |
| 18:45.43 | Fisker | unfortunately voice search kinda sucks |
| 18:45.43 | nevcairiel | hey, yeah we do. the app doesnt complain anymore |
| 18:45.49 | Fisker | For example i'm apparently in need of navigation to teen fuck |
| 18:45.57 | nevcairiel | and when i started it, my phone rebooted |
| 18:46.04 | Fisker | which of course wouldn't be an entirely bad thing, but it really wasn't what i was looking for |
| 18:47.46 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 18:47.46 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 18:52.32 | Thunder_Child | you should never not be looking for a teen fuck Fisker |
| 18:52.35 | Fisker | hey Thunder_Child |
| 18:52.38 | Fisker | not so hey tekkub |
| 18:54.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (~chatzilla@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 18:54.25 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (~airtonix@unaffiliated/airtonix) |
| 18:54.48 | Fisker | but very much hey Hjalte |
| 18:55.26 | Hjalte | Good evening |
| 18:57.20 | Hjalte | Fisker: Tried out Google Navigation? |
| 19:00.03 | Stan_ | foxlit: http://pastey.net/137515 |
| 19:00.35 | Fisker | Hjalte i briefly tried "navigate by voice" |
| 19:00.47 | Fisker | And it thought i was looking for directions to teen fuck |
| 19:01.04 | Hjalte | Well, weren't you? |
| 19:01.33 | Fisker | every living breathing moment |
| 19:02.04 | Hjalte | I read somewhere that they've gotten us a danish speaking lady for the directions, but I haven't been able to find her. |
| 19:07.51 | nicoli_s | Fisker:how do i get to teen fuck? |
| 19:09.43 | Fisker | idk |
| 19:10.39 | Dagmar | Tomtom has a much more amusing mod. Snoop Dog voice. |
| 19:11.12 | Dagmar | It might tell you to drive off a bridge, but you'll feel like a pimp doin' it. |
| 19:12.55 | xanax` | excuse me to interupt you in your chat, but the <anchor><offset><absDimension x="20" y="0"/></offset></anchor> is used to set the position of an "object" ? (for example a button) ?. |
| 19:14.41 | Dagmar | Not sure but I think you need to specify somethin more with the anchor |
| 19:14.46 | Dagmar | See also http://www.wowwiki.com/XML_user_interface |
| 19:14.58 | cog|work | yes. it anchors one of the points on the child (TOPLEFT, TOP, BOTTOM, etc.) to one of the same points of the parent |
| 19:15.08 | cog|work | and they don't actually need to be parent/child if you specify a frame to attach to |
| 19:15.19 | xanax` | ok |
| 19:15.33 | nevcairiel | parent/child relationships simplify framelevels though |
| 19:15.57 | cog|work | and you can use multiple points in combination with each other (e.g. TOPLEFT and BOTTOMRIGHT to make the frame fill the parent) |
| 19:15.58 | Lunessa | http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/6/9/ |
| 19:16.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Thunder_Child (~Thunder_C@ppp-71-140-101-211.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 19:16.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Thunder_Child (~Thunder_C@WoWUIDev/PITA/TC) |
| 19:17.14 | Dagmar | Lunessa: Whoever got blamed for that is probably wishing he'd simply been disembowled by fist right about now |
| 19:17.28 | Lunessa | Seriously. |
| 19:17.40 | Lunessa | But I laughed anyway |
| 19:17.43 | *** join/#wowuidev jacobeiting (~jacobeiti@2620:0:1b07:20:21b:63ff:fe91:7a21) |
| 19:18.20 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (~airtonix@unaffiliated/airtonix) |
| 19:19.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@dsl4E5C061E.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 19:20.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Bartlomehus (~Michel@wetering.xs4all.nl) |
| 19:21.21 | mikma | http://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/jason_vs_freddy_vs_wolverine_vs_edward_scissorhands_comic.jpg |
| 19:25.50 | malreth | oooooooORGANS! |
| 19:28.55 | olafski | I didn't get that one :( |
| 19:28.58 | olafski | what was he going to say originally? |
| 19:29.15 | Lunessa | malreth: http://failblog.org/2010/06/09/epic-fail-photos-weather-forecast-win/ - holy crap! |
| 19:30.31 | malreth | uh... I wouldn't trust a stormtrooper to give an accurate forecast |
| 19:30.37 | malreth | fuckers can't even shoot straight |
| 19:31.02 | Lunessa | Only Imperial troops are so precise... |
| 19:32.35 | NightHawkTheSane | he was being sarcastic, "look at this, they shot all over the damn place, only imperial troops are so 'precise'" |
| 19:37.52 | Lunessa | we were in agreement. |
| 19:40.53 | Lopeppeppy | You'd better agree or I'll fry you up! |
| 19:41.23 | Lunessa | ... |
| 19:41.52 | NightHawkTheSane | mmmm.. fried food |
| 19:44.19 | Fisker | slaps Lopeppeppy around a bit with a large trout |
| 19:44.19 | Fisker | slaps Lunessa around a bit with a large trout |
| 19:44.20 | Fisker | slaps NightHawkTheSane around a bit with a large trout |
| 19:44.23 | Fisker | slapd |
| 19:44.49 | Fisker | i should be from greenpeace or something liek that |
| 19:45.17 | nevcairiel | You slap people with innocent trouts, how is that greenpeace material? |
| 19:45.25 | NightHawkTheSane | you should be committed. |
| 19:46.42 | cbreak | the trout is dead due to oil poisoning |
| 19:46.47 | cbreak | it doesn't suffer anymore |
| 19:46.48 | Lopeppeppy | I would *love* anything deep fried right now. Gods. |
| 19:47.01 | nevcairiel | hands Lopeppeppy a deep fried Fisker |
| 19:47.12 | alestane | Unprocessed meat! |
| 19:47.17 | NightHawkTheSane | Lopeppeppy: deep fried peanut butter and banana sandwich? |
| 19:47.56 | Lopeppeppy | NHTS, I can't have bread, peanut butter, or bananas. I can have the oil though... |
| 19:47.59 | Lunessa | NightHawkTheSane: only if you fry that shit in bacon grease and slather it with some powdered sugar. |
| 19:49.26 | Shirik | You know what scares the hell out of me? |
| 19:49.33 | Shirik | Books titled "3D Game Engine Design using C#" |
| 19:49.57 | alestane | Is C# at least compiled? |
| 19:50.04 | Shirik | it compiles to MSIL |
| 19:50.13 | Shirik | I don't consider that "compiled" |
| 19:50.14 | nevcairiel | its like java |
| 19:50.20 | nevcairiel | builds bytecode that runs in a VM |
| 19:50.26 | alestane | So, only to an interpreted byteCode? Does it need a VM to run? |
| 19:50.29 | Shirik | yes |
| 19:50.38 | Shirik | Well I mean |
| 19:50.42 | Shirik | technically C# doesn't specify that |
| 19:50.43 | alestane | Then no, don't bui;d 3D engines in that crap. |
| 19:50.50 | Shirik | but the only C# implementation I'm aware of is .NET |
| 19:50.54 | Shirik | which runs in a VM |
| 19:50.56 | nevcairiel | its a GUI-creation-language, imho :) |
| 19:51.00 | Shirik | agree |
| 19:51.04 | alestane | Maybe build a C++ #D library with C# bindings. |
| 19:51.12 | alestane | 3D* |
| 19:51.14 | durcyn | Shirik: Mono, but same idea. |
| 19:51.15 | Shirik | now there is a side note to this |
| 19:51.24 | Shirik | C# does allow you to write "unsafe" code blocks |
| 19:51.34 | Shirik | which are extremely close to compiled native code |
| 19:51.35 | Shirik | but it's still not native |
| 19:52.14 | Shirik | I am very much of the opinion that the only languages for game engines right now are C++ and C, with strong preference for C++ beyond that of my desire for C++ in the first place |
| 19:52.57 | Lunessa | No matter what people say, C and C++ are here for quite a while longer. :) |
| 19:53.14 | nevcairiel | People dont write new languages like that |
| 19:53.15 | Shirik | even if C++ were to be stopped being used today |
| 19:53.21 | Lopeppeppy | We should all program in MWE |
| 19:53.26 | Shirik | it would still exist for many many years a la FORTRAN |
| 19:53.40 | nevcairiel | its all in high-level scripting languages, or at least byte-code interpreted |
| 19:53.48 | Lunessa | Shirik: Did you have to go there? DID YOU? *cries* |
| 19:53.57 | Shirik | loool |
| 19:54.23 | cbreak | There's C++0x soon... maybe... |
| 19:54.30 | Shirik | C++0x |
| 19:54.37 | alestane | Mad Whip Efforts, Peppy? |
| 19:54.38 | Shirik | the standard that is so delayed its name doesn't even make sense anymore |
| 19:54.46 | cbreak | indeed... |
| 19:54.52 | nevcairiel | i heard they changed it to hex |
| 19:54.55 | nevcairiel | so it works again |
| 19:54.56 | Shirik | yes |
| 19:54.58 | cbreak | maybe C++0x10 or so :) |
| 19:55.02 | Shirik | C++0A |
| 19:55.03 | haste | lol |
| 19:55.30 | Shirik | though that's more of an in-joke than a real ISO-approved name |
| 19:55.40 | Shirik | I'm pretty sure it will be properly named like C++10 etc |
| 19:57.09 | cbreak | last few months I programmed in C++ |
| 19:57.15 | cbreak | that language has some nasty stuff |
| 19:57.33 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (~airtonix@unaffiliated/airtonix) |
| 19:57.34 | nevcairiel | I do some c++ for fun on the side these days, my day is full of java :d |
| 19:58.06 | Lopeppeppy | alestane, you don't want to know. *weg* |
| 19:59.01 | mikma | cairenn: http://www.geekologie.com/2010/06/girl_you_lookin_good_hello_kit.php |
| 20:00.09 | Cairenn | rofl |
| 20:00.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@dsl4E5C05CC.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 20:00.39 | alestane | I like the Imperial Guard one. |
| 20:00.52 | Lopeppeppy | I want a star trek corset. |
| 20:01.06 | durcyn | I want you to have a star trek corset. |
| 20:03.22 | alestane | Peppy should have a corset that fits. *nod* |
| 20:03.34 | Lopeppeppy | Or this one. http://eveningarwen.com/modules/catalog/products/21/Pinstripe-Baseball-Corset-and-Shrug/ |
| 20:05.08 | Lunessa | Two things every woman should have... #2 is a corset. |
| 20:05.11 | Lunessa | I'm just saying. |
| 20:06.22 | alestane | A "shrug" is the little half-jacket? |
| 20:07.23 | Lopeppeppy | Yes. |
| 20:07.33 | Lopeppeppy | Lunessa, I shrank out of mine. |
| 20:08.03 | *** join/#wowuidev [1]Archarodim (HydraIRC@lev92-4-88-164-134-95.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:09.21 | Lunessa | Lopeppeppy: *nod*nod* I'll be happy to assist you in the selection of a new one.... I expect lots of "modeling" though. |
| 20:09.30 | alestane | Which is probably the best way to not fit a corset, but still. |
| 20:10.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 20:12.04 | Antiarc | nevcairiel: I'm working in Java right now and it makes me angry >:| |
| 20:12.07 | Antiarc | So verbose. |
| 20:12.25 | nevcairiel | editors to the rescue |
| 20:12.41 | Fisker | Greetings: |
| 20:12.41 | Fisker | World of Warcraft in order to inform all the players, the system will send this notice to each player is bound mailbox. |
| 20:12.41 | Fisker | World of Warcraft is about to open 85, open beta soon. To prevent data errors, please activate the player to the address below. Thank you players with. |
| 20:12.41 | Fisker | To verify your identity please visit the following webpage: |
| 20:12.42 | Fisker | derp |
| 20:12.44 | Fisker | derp |
| 20:12.47 | Fisker | HERPA DERP |
| 20:12.58 | Antiarc | You'd think they could afford to hire a fluent english speaker |
| 20:13.04 | Fisker | btw Antiarc |
| 20:13.18 | nevcairiel | I've always wondered how people even click on those mails |
| 20:13.20 | nevcairiel | its so obvious |
| 20:13.22 | Fisker | why is it that avr/hudmap can only detect one goo on Putricide 25? |
| 20:13.32 | Antiarc | Because Putricide only flash-targets one person |
| 20:13.36 | Fisker | tsk |
| 20:13.59 | krka | interesting that you think java is so verbose, i rarely notice it when i'm using intellij |
| 20:14.46 | Antiarc | krka: Well, I've been working in high-level interpreted languages for almost a decade now |
| 20:14.55 | Antiarc | So when I have to have 30 lines to read a file, it makes me cranky :P |
| 20:15.43 | foxlit | Stan_: how did that happen? |
| 20:15.54 | krka | 30 lines? i can do it in 10 or less i bet! |
| 20:16.09 | Antiarc | Yeah, well, I'm used to doing in in one :P |
| 20:16.39 | Antiarc | In Ruby, to open a text file and read a series of comma-delimited values out of each line, it's something like: |
| 20:16.40 | Antiarc | open("foo.txt").each {|line| addDataRow(line.split(",")) } |
| 20:16.55 | Stan_ | foxlit: dunno, just opened my ring. keybind is middle mouse |
| 20:17.00 | Fisker | btw Antiarc |
| 20:17.13 | Antiarc | That opens and iterates the file, passes the split data to whatever helper method, and closes the file when the block's finished :P |
| 20:17.16 | Antiarc | Like I said, spoiled. |
| 20:17.19 | *** join/#wowuidev jacobeiting (~jacobeiti@192.42.249.114) |
| 20:17.23 | foxlit | Stan_: was the ring empty? |
| 20:17.38 | Fisker | do you know if the jack-thingy on the Nexus one is something special? Or is it possible to get like a universal remote? :P |
| 20:17.51 | krka | java: open("foo.txt").each(new LineProcessor(){public void process(String line) { addDataRow(line.split(","));}}); |
| 20:18.07 | krka | i guess that's like 3 lines when properly formatted though |
| 20:18.14 | miica | how i check i am in combat or not? |
| 20:18.15 | Stan_ | foxlit: nope |
| 20:18.36 | krka | i hope java 7 gets some nicer closure like sugar |
| 20:19.00 | alestane | From what context, miica? |
| 20:19.27 | Antiarc | Fisker: It's a "TRRS" jack, which is input/output/control all in one |
| 20:20.05 | Antiarc | krka: We must be using different Javas then, because my file code is an unholy mess of inputstreams and byte arrays :P |
| 20:20.22 | krka | i use closure style stuff in java a lot actually, but it's a bit more bloated then lua / ruby / et.c. :/ |
| 20:20.46 | *** join/#wowuidev malreth_ (~triti@wireless-128-62-89-122.public.utexas.edu) |
| 20:20.47 | krka | Antiarc: well, you can write utility classes that get rid of all htat |
| 20:20.57 | *** join/#wowuidev malreth_ (~triti@dhcp-128-83-186-188.its.utexas.edu) |
| 20:20.58 | Antiarc | Ruby's blocks have utterly spoiled me in terms of how I think of process flows, heh. |
| 20:21.00 | Stan_ | foxlit: last thing I did before the error happenend was changing speccs |
| 20:21.01 | Fisker | ah k Antiarc |
| 20:21.05 | krka | such as my methods open and each |
| 20:21.09 | Fisker | know anyone with just the controller? |
| 20:21.14 | Antiarc | Fisker: Nope. |
| 20:21.17 | Fisker | bah |
| 20:21.30 | Fisker | want one of those so i can attach the headphones of my choice |
| 20:21.38 | Fisker | But the closest i found was one from HTC |
| 20:21.42 | Fisker | but that was over miniusb |
| 20:22.01 | Antiarc | krka: Have you done any android development? If so, is there a trick to getting useful stack traces out of the Eclipse debugger? |
| 20:22.44 | Fisker | btw :O Antiarc |
| 20:22.50 | foxlit | Stan_: try the following: open any ring |
| 20:22.56 | foxlit | Point your mouse at its center. |
| 20:22.59 | foxlit | Scroll up. |
| 20:23.00 | Fisker | the wow remote on Android gets the authenticator token automatically |
| 20:23.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@dsl4E5C066C.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 20:23.12 | Fisker | dunno if it does that on iphone |
| 20:23.24 | durcyn | there'a no API for it on iphone |
| 20:23.34 | Antiarc | Android natively lets apps interact and share data |
| 20:23.38 | foxlit | Yes it does. |
| 20:23.45 | foxlit | I don't know how they snatch it, but they do. |
| 20:23.49 | Antiarc | iphone doesn't, in no small part because iphone apps can't run concurrently, in general. :P |
| 20:24.10 | foxlit | Nevertheless, the iphone armory can use the iphone authenticator to log in. |
| 20:24.28 | Fisker | in theory they could implement it in the app? |
| 20:24.43 | Antiarc | Does the iphone have shared storage? |
| 20:24.54 | foxlit | I have no idea. |
| 20:25.03 | foxlit | User, not developer. |
| 20:25.25 | Stan_ | foxlit: nothing happens |
| 20:25.51 | foxlit | Hm, interesting. |
| 20:26.01 | foxlit | I should double check something, sec. |
| 20:26.36 | Fisker | but damn Antiarc |
| 20:26.51 | Fisker | they should just have built it into the android headset |
| 20:26.53 | foxlit | Stan_: not quite in the center, then. |
| 20:27.14 | foxlit | Try in the "nothing is selected" zone. |
| 20:27.15 | Stan_ | i tested different mouse positions. and it's set to open at the mouse btw |
| 20:27.35 | krka | Antiarc: nope, no android dev |
| 20:27.51 | krka | and no eclipse anymore :) |
| 20:27.58 | Stan_ | foxlit: nope, nothing |
| 20:28.07 | krka | want to see real code that does what i described? |
| 20:28.17 | foxlit | Stan_: ah. Not scrolling, then. |
| 20:28.18 | krka | i wrote it just now, might be useful to have in your framework |
| 20:29.13 | foxlit | Stan_: open a ring, move mouse to the "nothing is selected" area (and not the center/quick action), and then click the middle mouse button. |
| 20:29.34 | krka | Antiarc: http://pastey.net/137521 |
| 20:29.44 | Stan_ | foxlit: i have to hold the middle mouse button to keep the ring open^^ |
| 20:29.55 | krka | see, you can write almost ruby-like code in java :) |
| 20:30.23 | Antiarc | But you had to write all that support code to do it! |
| 20:30.32 | foxlit | Stan_: Hm use a different ring? |
| 20:30.46 | Antiarc | I just feel like I end up 10 lines of systems code for every line of business logic |
| 20:30.47 | NightHawkTheSane | Antiarc: so the difference is you want the support code written for you? :P |
| 20:30.55 | krka | Antiarc: sure, but that a write once thing |
| 20:31.00 | krka | and it took me like 5 minutes in total |
| 20:31.01 | Stan_ | foxlit: ok that got me the error now |
| 20:31.06 | Stan_ | *gave |
| 20:31.11 | foxlit | Yeah, I think I see it. |
| 20:31.18 | Antiarc | NightHawkTheSane: Ruby's structure is such that the support code just sorta happens magically :P |
| 20:31.32 | Antiarc | Everything as an object, blocks and iterators, functional-style development |
| 20:31.40 | krka | well, someone wrote the .each method for you |
| 20:31.49 | foxlit | Button3 is used as a "open the ring the current slice is displaying as a sub-ring" binding |
| 20:31.51 | krka | and the open(...) in ruby already created a list of lines? |
| 20:32.20 | foxlit | Unfortunately, if you press it while nothing is selected, a check borks. |
| 20:32.21 | Antiarc | Well, what happens is that open() returns an object which is iterable, so I can call each or map or reject or whatnot on it |
| 20:32.24 | krka | i agree that java collections should have an each-method built in though |
| 20:32.33 | Antiarc | And then pass it a block, and the lines are iterated and each passed to the block |
| 20:33.03 | foxlit | I'll fix in the next release, it's bugged in different fashion at the moment as well. |
| 20:33.06 | krka | would be nice if java.util.Iterable had a method: void each(IterableProcessor p); or something |
| 20:33.08 | Stan_ | ok :) |
| 20:34.23 | krka | the thing ruby gives you over java is really only: 1) shorter syntax. 2) dynamic typing. 3) a better suited standard library |
| 20:34.59 | krka | you can sort of use generics to solve 2 for the processor i guess |
| 20:35.14 | krka | 1 might get improved in java 7 |
| 20:35.25 | krka | 3 could theoretically be fixed by sun |
| 20:35.46 | bryno | oracle :P |
| 20:35.57 | krka | whatever! |
| 20:36.03 | Antiarc | Hrm |
| 20:36.11 | Antiarc | Now my Eclipse debugger won't attach to my emulator |
| 20:37.01 | krka | Antiarc: this is sort of neat http://code.google.com/p/guava-libraries/issues/detail?id=218 |
| 20:37.24 | krka | have you tried intellij btw? |
| 20:37.30 | krka | i think it really makes java much more fun to work with |
| 20:37.40 | Antiarc | I haven't. I will. |
| 20:38.03 | Antiarc | Eclipse isn't too bad, though, really. |
| 20:38.05 | krka | it has really powerful refactoring |
| 20:38.16 | krka | eclipse is ok, it just lacks all the powerful stuff that intellij has |
| 20:38.29 | Antiarc | How's intellij's Android integration? |
| 20:38.36 | krka | eclipse has better on the fly compilation though |
| 20:38.44 | krka | but that's the only thing i like better with eclipse |
| 20:39.05 | krka | http://www.jetbrains.com/idea/features/google_android.html |
| 20:39.10 | krka | seems like it's officially support |
| 20:39.15 | foxlit | Anything cool in Helios? |
| 20:39.16 | krka | i.e. not even a third party plugin |
| 20:39.38 | krka | seems to be in ultimate though, not community |
| 20:46.59 | Fisker | jnwhiteh |
| 20:47.00 | Fisker | you are here |
| 20:47.17 | Ackis | http://community.livejournal.com/baaaaabyanimals/4028799.html |
| 20:54.28 | Fisker | summons jnwhiteh |
| 21:02.42 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 21:07.11 | jnwhiteh | Fisker: no one clicked the portal. |
| 21:07.11 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 21:08.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Xyphoid (proxyuser@unaffiliated/xyphoid) |
| 21:13.48 | Fisker | oh |
| 21:14.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (amarande@68-191-37-155.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 21:14.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Droolio (~drool@87-194-188-170.bethere.co.uk) |
| 21:14.58 | Fisker | you wouldn't happen to know a connector with mic and playback controls where you can put in your own headset? |
| 21:19.35 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 21:20.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (~chatzilla@99-92-174-69.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:23.44 | NightHawkTheSane | my old ipod came with a headphone cord that was basically just a passthrough with an inline control thingy. i can't imagine no one else has come up with that. |
| 21:24.26 | Amarande | Night: that's a pretty common thing, actually |
| 21:24.32 | Amarande | I had a walkman that had a cord of similar ilk |
| 21:24.42 | Fisker | NightHawkTheSane that's what i thought |
| 21:24.53 | malreth_ | shure makes something like that |
| 21:24.59 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: yes. i know, hence my statement "i can't imagine no one else has come up with it" |
| 21:25.03 | Fisker | But so far the only thing i can find is seriously fucked up expensive solutions |
| 21:25.39 | NightHawkTheSane | wonders if he still has that cable, actually, and if it'd still work with his new ipod |
| 21:25.39 | malreth | http://store.shure.com/store/shure/en_US/pd/productID.105498400 |
| 21:25.53 | Fisker | hah |
| 21:26.00 | Fisker | i could probably get the whole lot for that price |
| 21:26.09 | Fisker | it's a fucking piece of cable with a button |
| 21:26.17 | Fisker | it can't cost more than $5 to make |
| 21:26.47 | malreth | easy solution: Make one for $5 |
| 21:26.58 | Fisker | that's not easy :P |
| 21:27.08 | NightHawkTheSane | which is why they charge $50 i bet? :P |
| 21:27.15 | NightHawkTheSane | Although, I think that is a touch overpriced. |
| 21:27.32 | malreth | Fisker: easy solution: pay an extra $44 to make it easy. ;) |
| 21:29.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Gotai (~Gotai@ip54546435.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl) |
| 21:35.15 | *** part/#wowuidev mitchnull (~mitchnull@catv3EC944A1.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 21:36.20 | Shirik | I wonder if Microsoft will ever adopt forward slashes for their file systems |
| 21:37.53 | Fisker | forward slashes suck |
| 21:37.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 21:38.51 | Dagmar | Shirik: If they do that at this point it'll mean egg on their faces |
| 21:39.13 | Dagmar | Remember the OS was basically an intentional clone of CP/M at the time, and that's literally the ONE thing that distinguished them from each other. |
| 21:39.54 | Dagmar | I can remember being 13-14 and being at some "computer camp" and after using both a CP/M kaypro and a DOS PC for about two hours, asking the instructor WTF the difference between them was |
| 21:40.09 | Dagmar | "Their slashes" was his answer. Not joking in the least. |
| 21:40.39 | Shirik | but like |
| 21:40.39 | Shirik | forward slashes work now |
| 21:40.40 | Shirik | I just tried it |
| 21:40.52 | Shirik | they just behind-the-scenes convert it into a backslash |
| 21:40.59 | Dagmar | Yep. |
| 21:41.00 | Shirik | it's like they're just trying to hide it now |
| 21:41.02 | Dagmar | That's a new change |
| 21:41.24 | Dagmar | Probably more a matter of trying to quietly remove the "translate \ to /" code from IIS |
| 21:41.47 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 21:41.50 | Fisker | forward slashes suck |
| 21:41.52 | Fisker | do you hear me? |
| 21:41.59 | Shirik | no |
| 21:42.05 | Shirik | I can read what you're typing though |
| 21:42.25 | Fisker | you should really install a text-to-speech app then |
| 21:42.29 | Fisker | or use it |
| 21:43.10 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 21:45.14 | NightHawkTheSane | the last thing this world needs is your text converted to speech |
| 21:45.20 | *** join/#wowuidev theorbtwo (~theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 21:45.28 | malreth | http://www.feministing.com/archives/021468.html |
| 21:49.17 | Fisker | sounds very srs NightHawkTheSane |
| 21:51.17 | cog|work | http://www.blaghag.com/2010/06/spit-swallow-or-souffle.html |
| 21:51.38 | Fisker | cog|work |
| 21:51.47 | Fisker | i want to make out with you |
| 21:52.29 | malreth | "Semen is inexpensive to produce" *pfft* yeah, right. |
| 21:52.45 | malreth | THEN WHY DOES IT KEEP COSTING ME $50 PER VISIT? |
| 21:52.49 | *** join/#wowuidev robokitty (~robotusch@50A2E67F.flatrate.dk) |
| 21:53.16 | Fisker | slaps robokitty around a bit with a large trout |
| 21:57.41 | Kraps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDTXJj_YAdE |
| 21:58.22 | Amarande | malreth: you need to pick cheaper whores? :) |
| 21:58.47 | malreth | Amarande: HOW DARE YOU CALL MY WIFE A WHORE! |
| 21:59.06 | Amarande | heh |
| 21:59.11 | NightHawkTheSane | ~malreth++ |
| 21:59.35 | *** join/#wowuidev jacobeiting (~jacobeiti@2620:0:1b07:11:21b:63ff:fece:15c9) |
| 21:59.55 | Lunessa | cog|work: ... I think I just became a vegetarian. |
| 22:00.20 | NightHawkTheSane | i dunno.. is semen vegan or not? |
| 22:00.43 | Lunessa | It exploits a living creature... so it's not vegan. |
| 22:01.44 | batrick | but the penis liked being exploited? |
| 22:02.24 | alestane | Animal byproducts of any kind are generally not vegan. |
| 22:02.57 | cog|work | even honey isn't vegan |
| 22:03.27 | NightHawkTheSane | oh, right, vegan is particularly hardcore. |
| 22:03.51 | batrick | so retarded |
| 22:03.55 | batrick | </rant> |
| 22:04.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Wella (~5ec028a9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.192.40.169) |
| 22:04.14 | Wella | Hello. |
| 22:04.28 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 22:04.30 | bryno | greetings. |
| 22:04.35 | Wella | :) |
| 22:04.49 | Wella | Having trouble finding motivation to continue learning Lua lol |
| 22:05.13 | foxlit | why did you want to learn it in the first place? |
| 22:05.21 | Wella | Well kinda to make my own addons |
| 22:05.26 | Wella | I suppose lol |
| 22:05.38 | bryno | i haven't actually gotten into addon devel yet, so i'm just hanging around |
| 22:05.39 | Wella | And I would love to but it just seems such a daunting task |
| 22:05.51 | Wella | ok |
| 22:06.21 | Wella | Also there are a lot of different things to be trying to learn at once it seems, kinda confusing lol |
| 22:06.53 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (~airtonix@unaffiliated/airtonix) |
| 22:07.16 | Wella | oh well. :P |
| 22:07.18 | alestane | ~wowprogramming |
| 22:07.19 | purl | wowprogramming is, like, World of Warcraft Programming: A Guide and Reference for Creating WoW Addons - http://is.gd/7A3Jx - a book written by Cladhaire and Gazmik, or the companion site and API reference available online for free at http://wowprogramming.com |
| 22:07.37 | malreth | Wella: my recommendation is to pick one thing... some skill, some API, some library, or something. just one discrete thing... and make an addon centered around that |
| 22:07.45 | alestane | The book does a good job of making Lua and the WoW API accessible and walking you through them in chunks. |
| 22:07.56 | Wella | Yeah I've heard about that book many times |
| 22:08.00 | Wella | And I get what you mean malreth |
| 22:08.04 | bryno | i think it's cool that cog|work comes here. do any of the other authors come here? |
| 22:08.16 | miica | how i make dropdownmenu scrollable? |
| 22:09.05 | cog|work | bryno: jnwhiteh is the main author |
| 22:09.19 | cog|work | (cladhaire) |
| 22:09.35 | bryno | ahh, i'm just picking up on the names. i've only been lurking here for a couple days |
| 22:09.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Slackwise (~slackwise@c-98-228-240-33.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 22:09.52 | bryno | i was silently excited to see Ackis, as i use his addon |
| 22:09.54 | Fisker | hey cog|work |
| 22:10.42 | Ackis | hai |
| 22:10.54 | Ackis | I think that's a first... someone excited to see me |
| 22:11.00 | bryno | :P |
| 22:11.42 | foxlit | miica: you don't. |
| 22:11.45 | cog|work | i can't say the same... i've gotten into random groups and people were like "OMG you're THE cogwheel??" |
| 22:11.58 | Ackis | bryno: Torhal and pompy are the other main devs of ARL and both hang out here |
| 22:12.14 | foxlit | Which isn't a lot of help; I only mean to imply that the UIDropDownMenu framework doesn't do scrolling for you. |
| 22:12.15 | nicoli_s | lol |
| 22:12.21 | Seerah | I've had in-game gifts and screenshot requests >< |
| 22:12.26 | nicoli_s | every time i try and tell people who i am they think im lying :P |
| 22:12.28 | Lunessa | cog|work: For a few weeks after you joined <Grounding Totem> I was practically your answering service. |
| 22:12.29 | cog|work | =) |
| 22:12.30 | foxlit | FrameXML fakes it with other methods, none of which you can reuse without copying their code. |
| 22:12.34 | Ackis | cog|work: I got into a random group, and this guy was telling me about this "wicked" addon that tells you where to get recipes. I asked him what the name of the addon was and he's like... oh wow! |
| 22:12.36 | bryno | Ackis: that is very cool. |
| 22:12.46 | malreth | i've sometimes sent pictures of my underwear to Seerah |
| 22:13.08 | miica | foxlit: hmm.. :/ |
| 22:13.09 | Dagmar | malreth: That's not quite the way it's supposed to work |
| 22:13.17 | cog|work | malreth: the pink frilly ones? |
| 22:13.19 | Seerah | I never received them... musta went to spam or Dagmar hacked in and stole them |
| 22:13.24 | miica | foxlit: i think wowace got scrollable dropdowmenus? :o |
| 22:13.25 | Seerah | ah... was cog|work |
| 22:13.29 | Seerah | sorry, Dagmar |
| 22:13.33 | Lunessa | And you should be ashamed - wearing a thing 3 sizes too small that has skidmarks. |
| 22:13.35 | Dagmar | I dinna steal them |
| 22:13.36 | foxlit | miica: maybe. I don't do ace. |
| 22:13.47 | Dagmar | I'm too much of a sarcastic bastard to have time to steal naughty pics. |
| 22:14.00 | Dagmar | ...although I have sent inappropriate underwear pics to girls I know. |
| 22:14.08 | Dagmar | Well, one girl, because she has a sense of humor. |
| 22:14.16 | Dagmar | I took the picture right in the middle of Target. |
| 22:14.30 | Dagmar | Pack of 6 boxer-briefs, on sale. |
| 22:14.32 | Seerah | and you weren't arrested? ;P |
| 22:14.46 | Dagmar | <-- sarcastic bastard |
| 22:14.51 | miica | foxlit: because now my dropboxmenu goes over screen :/ |
| 22:14.54 | Ackis | I send nudies to cog|work all the time |
| 22:15.10 | Dagmar | seerah: I even captioned the picture "I'm buyin' me some of these!" |
| 22:15.12 | cog|work | yeah, your dogs need moar costumes |
| 22:15.22 | foxlit | Consider whether having a list that long is necessary |
| 22:15.37 | foxlit | And whether you could perhaps organize it hierarchically. |
| 22:16.31 | Dagmar | ...although a coworker takes the cake for best underwear mistake |
| 22:16.57 | Dagmar | His gf was Phillipino. Apparently there's some thing where you give your underwear to the person you're courting. |
| 22:17.03 | Lunessa | Telo wrote a quick library for dropdown menus - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25172121128&postId=251691374518&sid=1#3 |
| 22:17.09 | Seerah | miica: there is the dewdrop library. though... like foxlit said, you may wish to reconsider. What is your dropdown being used for? |
| 22:17.10 | Dagmar | She had Fed-Ex'd hers to the office. |
| 22:17.21 | Dagmar | ...to be opened by the executive secretary. |
| 22:17.22 | Dagmar | hehe\ |
| 22:17.26 | miica | it list all guildmemebrs so no need to write name |
| 22:17.32 | kd3 | ! |
| 22:17.43 | miica | because some peoples got stupid letters like Ãé |
| 22:17.45 | foxlit | You're better off using some form of auto-complete |
| 22:17.51 | miica | hmm.. |
| 22:18.04 | Dagmar | miica: Crazy chicken-scratch languages are annoying like that |
| 22:18.05 | Seerah | or alphabetized list |
| 22:18.25 | Seerah | broken into "pages" by starting letter |
| 22:18.55 | miica | is that auto-complete how hard to do |
| 22:19.04 | Seerah | or even dropdown menu. each first letter creates a new second level dropdown |
| 22:19.45 | Seerah | or A-H, I-O, P-Z or somesuch |
| 22:20.03 | Seerah | you could probably hook into the auto-complete stuff that the default UI uses |
| 22:20.09 | foxlit | Make them all namechange to Bob |
| 22:20.14 | Seerah | heh |
| 22:20.16 | miica | ! |
| 22:20.58 | Seerah | oh - another suggestion... only show names in your list with foreign characters |
| 22:20.59 | Lunessa | I have a personal policy - If I have to remember alt+ codes to talk to you, I stop remembering you. |
| 22:21.00 | Thunder_Child | Shirik: lightroom 3 has been released |
| 22:22.07 | cog|work | Lunessa: you're gonna </3 my gnome then... |
| 22:22.15 | foxlit | So, meh, this episode looks like another cliffhanger |
| 22:22.21 | foxlit | They've been doing that for the last 10 :/ |
| 22:22.21 | Lunessa | another gnome cog? |
| 22:22.37 | Lunessa | you already have like... 6 in the guild. |
| 22:22.37 | cog|work | my priest is gonna be named Rouedentée |
| 22:22.53 | Thunder_Child | ...that had better not be a pun |
| 22:22.56 | Seerah | I can't type that either :p |
| 22:23.02 | Lunessa | I can just right-click you in the guild list. |
| 22:23.09 | cog|work | Thunder_Child: i don't think so... it's just the french word for cogwheel |
| 22:23.10 | Thunder_Child | also cog|work people that use non-standard charecters should be shot |
| 22:23.24 | cog|work | not sure that quite qualifies as a pun |
| 22:23.25 | NightHawkTheSane | nah |
| 22:23.28 | foxlit | Tbh, just validate all character names against [A-Z]+ |
| 22:23.29 | Dagmar | Shot, burned, and then given paper cuts with a lemon juicer |
| 22:23.29 | Thunder_Child | then no |
| 22:23.30 | NightHawkTheSane | they just dont get invites |
| 22:23.34 | Thunder_Child | ^^ |
| 22:23.42 | Thunder_Child | it isnt worth it |
| 22:23.46 | Lunessa | I have a great name I want to use for a goblin. |
| 22:23.53 | cog|work | you know, i used to feel the same way |
| 22:23.57 | Dagmar | US players have no excuse for using cockyed nonsense names with umlauts |
| 22:24.09 | cog|work | but then in every single instance where there was someone with one of those names, there was also some way to right-click them to invite |
| 22:25.11 | Kraps | "Very little will change in Outland and Northrend. It would be nice to make more changes for continuity, but consider that Wrath of the Lich King shipped with roughly 1,000 new quests, and Cataclysm is scheduled to ship with upwards of 3,000 new quests. " |
| 22:25.41 | Dagmar | It's going to _need_ to becuase people are still going to be expected to level 1-60 there. |
| 22:25.49 | Fisker | slaps cog|work around a bit with a large trout |
| 22:25.49 | Fisker | slaps Kraps around a bit with a large trout |
| 22:26.03 | Thunder_Child | 1-58 Dagmar, who waits! |
| 22:26.19 | foxlit | ... fade to white. Annoying. |
| 22:26.24 | Lunessa | Ok, I'm going home early. See everyone tomorrow or something. |
| 22:26.29 | Amarande | T_C: I wait till 60 |
| 22:26.31 | NightHawkTheSane | later Lunessa |
| 22:26.33 | Kraps | foxlit: ? |
| 22:26.36 | Dagmar | I've got to get my "WALK YOU LAZY BITCH OF A NIGHT ELF" macro working |
| 22:26.39 | Fisker | fade to fart |
| 22:26.40 | Amarande | Oftentimes even 61 or 62, if I'm using a leveling guide |
| 22:26.40 | foxlit | Kraps: FMA:B 60 |
| 22:26.44 | Thunder_Child | Amarande: i am not surprised |
| 22:27.04 | Amarande | T_C: I went at 58 on a priest, and didn't have fun |
| 22:27.06 | Dagmar | ...becuase I'm sure there's going to be a ton of new toons in Cata begging for someone to port them to Stormwind |
| 22:27.25 | Amarande | Dagmar: I should level my alliance mage up, then heh |
| 22:27.45 | Dagmar | Amarande: You're going to want the Theramore Isle portal for sure |
| 22:27.49 | Amarande | (btw, is there any corresponding horde thing where people will beg for portals?) |
| 22:27.56 | Dagmar | Amarande: no one ever looks closely before they click |
| 22:28.09 | NightHawkTheSane | 15:26 < Thunder_Child > then no |
| 22:28.09 | NightHawkTheSane | 15:26 < Thunder_Child > ^^ |
| 22:28.13 | NightHawkTheSane | er, woops |
| 22:28.18 | NightHawkTheSane | sorry |
| 22:28.27 | Dagmar | Amarande: The sad thing is that it's always been stupidly easy to go from nelf-territory to Stormwind |
| 22:28.31 | Dagmar | These people are just damn lazy |
| 22:28.36 | Amarande | Dagmar: actually, it hasn't |
| 22:28.41 | NightHawkTheSane | yes. it has. |
| 22:28.44 | Amarande | pre-WotLK, that was actually a significantly irritating trip |
| 22:28.45 | Dagmar | It has. |
| 22:28.57 | Amarande | at low levels, anyway |
| 22:28.57 | Dagmar | No, it just involved some running... and you could corpse-flop. |
| 22:29.03 | Kraps | what Amarande said |
| 22:29.13 | Dagmar | Get killed, keep running, res at *next* graveyard |
| 22:29.16 | NightHawkTheSane | if you're doing it at level 1, it's irritating, but not hard. |
| 22:29.16 | Amarande | it was one thing that I always considered a significant advantage of being Horde |
| 22:29.33 | Kraps | Dagmar: ... |
| 22:29.34 | Amarande | because Horde has no corresponding deathtrap to crossing the Wetlands at low level |
| 22:29.41 | NightHawkTheSane | if you're doing it at level 10, it's longish, and mildly annoying, but not at all hard. |
| 22:29.56 | Amarande | You have always been able to cross between all Horde areas without going to an area higher level than 20 |
| 22:30.12 | Dagmar | Amarande: Go make a toon in Freeport on EQ and run your happy ass to Queynos at say level 10, then come back and tell me Wetlands is hard |
| 22:30.13 | Amarande | and the Barrens are so sparse in mob population compared to the Wetlands anyway |
| 22:30.49 | Amarande | not to mention a decent percentage of Barrens mobs are peaceful tallstriders, as well |
| 22:30.53 | Dagmar | North Karanas were full of wild animals that pathed _all over_ and every single one of them could outrun you, and felt no need to go look for ketchup. |
| 22:31.10 | Dagmar | In the wetlands if you just stick to the road you're generally fine |
| 22:31.11 | Amarande | Dagmar: aren't aggroed WoW mobs also faster than the player? |
| 22:31.19 | Amarande | yeah, there's really only one spot in the Wetlands that's a problem |
| 22:31.23 | Torhal | EQ has no concept of dropping combat, either. You aggro, you keep it until you zone out |
| 22:31.26 | Dagmar | Amarande: Not like the ones in the Karanas |
| 22:31.36 | Amarande | it's somewhat hard to make the trip eastwards from Menethil without picking up a crocolisk |
| 22:31.43 | foxlit | Torhal: kite everything to Vael's room, then! |
| 22:31.59 | Amarande | (*can* you make the trip eastwards from Menethil at sub-10 without picking up a croc?) |
| 22:32.04 | Dagmar | Amarande: WoW mobs run just barely faster than you do |
| 22:32.17 | foxlit | Depends on the mob. |
| 22:32.17 | Dagmar | EQ mobs were more like 20-40% faster depending on what they were |
| 22:32.34 | Amarande | Yeah, I've rarely seen superfast WoW mobs |
| 22:32.35 | foxlit | Some things catch up with you riding a 100% mount. |
| 22:32.43 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 22:32.47 | Amarande | I think there's those cats in Netherstorm that come with a permanent Dash buff, but that's about it |
| 22:33.29 | Amarande | that I can remember, anyway |
| 22:33.34 | Dagmar | I suspect the main reason people have problems streaking the wetlands is that they're too damn stupid to stop running and wait for the crocolisk to wander off |
| 22:34.29 | Amarande | There's also an area with Dragonmaw orcs near the tunnels that can be painful at low levels too |
| 22:34.34 | NightHawkTheSane | i always thought it because it was a little far and people were whiny bitches. |
| 22:34.38 | Amarande | primarily, because the corpse run is a lot farther there |
| 22:34.48 | Amarande | you get nabbed by a croc, you run from menethil |
| 22:35.00 | *** join/#wowuidev robokitty (~robotusch@50A2E67F.flatrate.dk) |
| 22:35.02 | Amarande | you get nabbed by dragonmaw orcs on the mountain paths, you run from ... hmm, it might even be menethil |
| 22:35.09 | Amarande | it's been too long for me to remember |
| 22:35.17 | Dagmar | Amarande: It beats the living crap out of respawning in _Freeport_ |
| 22:35.31 | Amarande | well, ok, EQ travel was just scrappy then :) |
| 22:35.38 | Dagmar | In EQ if you got killed, you spawned at your _bind point_. NO conveniently placed graveyards. |
| 22:35.40 | Amarande | I really only ever played a very little bit of EQ |
| 22:35.54 | Amarande | I got into it too soon, before I had broadband, and couldn't stand the lag |
| 22:35.57 | *** join/#wowuidev jacobeiting (~jacobeiti@192.42.249.130) |
| 22:35.59 | Amarande | we're not talking a little bit of lag here |
| 22:36.01 | Shirik | pop quiz |
| 22:36.05 | Shirik | Cide |
| 22:36.10 | Amarande | we're talking "hail a merchant and be half way across the zone when the window pops up" lag |
| 22:36.12 | Shirik | this is for your benefit |
| 22:36.13 | Dagmar | False! |
| 22:36.23 | Torhal | Amarande: I played EQ on a 56k modem. For years. |
| 22:36.34 | Dagmar | Amaradne: It wasn't meant for a 300 baud modem, man |
| 22:36.39 | Shirik | http://wowi.pastey.net/137527 |
| 22:36.49 | Shirik | what is the result? |
| 22:37.02 | Amarande | Dagmar: I had 56k |
| 22:37.05 | Torhal | Not a hell of a lot of people had cable/DSL in 1998 |
| 22:37.08 | Cide | shirikhuh? |
| 22:37.13 | Torhal | When EQ was released. |
| 22:37.19 | Shirik | Cide: Read the above pastey |
| 22:37.22 | Dagmar | Amarande: You had something desperately wrong with your equipment then, dude |
| 22:37.23 | Shirik | learn esoteric C++ |
| 22:37.36 | Dagmar | Amarande: Torhal wasn't the only one playing with a 56k modem |
| 22:37.41 | foxlit | "not many healing specs in healing gear can last long one on one versus a DPS class. " |
| 22:37.45 | foxlit | sage, wowinsider, sage. |
| 22:38.03 | Shirik | that's BS |
| 22:38.04 | Shirik | I used to dot hunters to death |
| 22:38.06 | Amarande | foxlit: are we talking WoW here? |
| 22:38.11 | foxlit | Yes. |
| 22:38.11 | Amarande | this guy must never have dueled a healer :P |
| 22:38.28 | Amarande | you know what's even more fun |
| 22:38.32 | Amarande | healer vs. healer duels heh |
| 22:38.37 | Dagmar | Shirik: I agree with you. I pretty much have to trick a retadin to kill them |
| 22:38.48 | Shirik | my new way of winning duels is more fun |
| 22:38.55 | foxlit | The overarching point is valid -- don't wander off -- but the particular example is silly. |
| 22:38.56 | Shirik | I lure the person out to the edge of the duel area |
| 22:39.05 | Dagmar | Can't sap their mana away any time soon, and they'll just fucking bubble all day otherwise |
| 22:39.11 | Shirik | then fear them out of bounds |
| 22:39.14 | Shirik | then MC to hold them out of bounds |
| 22:39.26 | Amarande | heh, can you just MC them and then move them out of bounds? |
| 22:39.36 | Shirik | yes but it wears off too fast |
| 22:39.41 | Shirik | the fear gives me critical few seconds |
| 22:39.53 | Amarande | that never occurred to me when I dueled this one resto druid in swamp of sorrows on my disc priest |
| 22:39.57 | Amarande | and so, the duel lasted about five minutes |
| 22:40.01 | Amarande | which is an aeon for a WoW duel |
| 22:40.14 | foxlit | I'm not sure why that works. |
| 22:40.24 | foxlit | Resto druid won't want to be in scream range. |
| 22:40.30 | Cide | shirik: compilation error? |
| 22:40.34 | *** join/#wowuidev MoonWitch (~Kelly@d51A4DB5F.access.telenet.be) |
| 22:40.38 | Shirik | Cide: Why? |
| 22:40.53 | Cide | maybe not |
| 22:41.01 | Shirik | ... |
| 22:41.03 | Shirik | make up your mind |
| 22:41.23 | Amarande | we went oom ... then we were reduced to my wand and his wimpy cat form ... then we got some mana back ... then I shielded (which also heals some, since I'm disc), then he healed ... on and on and on ... |
| 22:41.29 | Cide | no idea really |
| 22:41.36 | Shirik | it's a compilation error |
| 22:41.40 | Cide | why? |
| 22:41.52 | Cide | my first thought was that it would make sense to only let a namespace access stuff from inside it, but that doesn't make sense after some thought |
| 22:41.59 | Shirik | The parent Foo refers to A::Foo |
| 22:42.07 | Shirik | and you can't derive from yourself |
| 22:42.15 | Shirik | now |
| 22:42.16 | Shirik | how do you fix it? |
| 22:42.25 | foxlit | Java. |
| 22:42.28 | foxlit | </rimshot> |
| 22:42.32 | Shirik | lolno |
| 22:42.40 | Amarande | Shirik: by switching to procedural based programming? :) |
| 22:42.48 | Shirik | no! |
| 22:42.59 | Shirik | there is a very simple answer to this |
| 22:43.13 | Amarande | That's what we call an OOPS. An Object Oriented Programming Snag. :) |
| 22:43.14 | Shirik | but only those wise in the ways of esoteric C++ will know it |
| 22:43.14 | Thunder_Child | you going to upgrade Shirik? |
| 22:43.27 | Cide | I'm gonna guess |
| 22:43.27 | Cide | namespace { class Foo {}; } |
| 22:43.27 | Shirik | upgrade? |
| 22:43.31 | Cide | ! |
| 22:43.39 | Cide | no reasoning whatsoever though |
| 22:43.43 | Amarande | Cide: doesn't there need to be a ; at the end of that, too? |
| 22:43.47 | Thunder_Child | i pinged you earilier |
| 22:43.54 | Shirik | nah Cide |
| 22:43.58 | Shirik | the problem doesn't lie in the global class |
| 22:44.00 | *** join/#wowuidev malreth_ (~triti@wireless-128-62-89-122.public.utexas.edu) |
| 22:44.07 | Shirik | it lies in that 'Foo' in namespace 'A' means A::Foo |
| 22:44.15 | Shirik | So how do you get it to mean 'global Foo' |
| 22:44.53 | Cide | not knowing the syntax I'd just say Class Foo : ::Foo |
| 22:44.58 | Shirik | very good! |
| 22:45.00 | Thunder_Child | the lightroom 3 Shirik |
| 22:45.01 | Shirik | you win |
| 22:45.06 | Shirik | oh |
| 22:45.09 | Shirik | yes probably |
| 22:45.11 | Shirik | I need to get CS5 too |
| 22:45.38 | Thunder_Child | i have managed to figure out almost everything on it so far |
| 22:45.42 | Thunder_Child | of the new stuff |
| 22:46.35 | Dagmar | Shirik: Congratulations. You're now teaching people how to write unreadable code. :/ |
| 22:46.43 | Shirik | lol |
| 22:46.49 | Shirik | I don't even remember how it came up actually |
| 22:47.16 | Thunder_Child | Dagmar: english teachers have been doing that for years |
| 22:47.36 | Dagmar | Thunder_Child: English isn't meant to be machine-parseable. |
| 22:47.54 | Thunder_Child | Dagmar: it is however meant to be human parseable...and it isnt |
| 22:48.08 | Dagmar | I blame your parents. |
| 22:48.24 | Jamash | it's only meant to be parseable by the english |
| 22:48.36 | Amarande | English was never *designed* to do anything |
| 22:49.01 | Amarande | we need to speak a better designed language |
| 22:49.02 | Amarande | like quenya |
| 22:49.36 | Amarande | except I'm not sure what the words for things like 'computer' and 'warcraft' are in Quenya :| |
| 22:50.15 | cog|work | lojban imo |
| 22:51.17 | cog|work | also, 'warcraft' would be 'warcraft' no matter the language since it's a proper noun ;) |
| 22:51.57 | alestane | Human languages generally aren't designed, period. And when designed languages get into human usage, they typically acquire non-designed features. |
| 22:53.04 | alestane | "If you learned Lojban, all your communication would be clear, precise and unambiguous." "Yes, but it would all be with the sorts of people who learn Lojban." |
| 22:53.35 | Dagmar | Yep. |
| 22:53.52 | Dagmar | Never breathe a word of Esperanto at say, Dragoncon, for the same reason |
| 22:54.35 | Amarande | you know, learning Quenya might not be so bad, then :) |
| 22:54.36 | Amarande | after all |
| 22:54.45 | Amarande | everyone you'd be able to communicate with, would be ... fellow fantasy geeks ;) |
| 22:54.55 | Amarande | GEEK PRIDE |
| 22:55.01 | batrick | talking about arts and language akes me irrationally angry |
| 22:55.02 | foxlit | That quote seems familiar |
| 22:55.10 | Dagmar | Umm... no. Mainly nerds. |
| 22:55.23 | alestane | http://xkcd.com/191/ , foxlit. |
| 22:55.35 | cog|work | klingon imo |
| 22:55.40 | Dagmar | Learning made-up-elvish is not a great way to meet people with you know, busy social schedules |
| 22:55.55 | foxlit | alestane: ah. That explains it. |
| 22:55.55 | Amarande | cog: QUENYA! |
| 22:56.10 | Dagmar | People with lots of free time and possible hygiene problems tho... it's the sort of thing you've been waiting all you rlife for. |
| 22:56.10 | Amarande | heh, you know what one nice thing about death knights starting at 55 is |
| 22:56.12 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: 99% of the time i'd agree with you |
| 22:56.25 | Amarande | you can tell exactly which faction the moron who took a name and never used the character on your server is on :P |
| 22:56.51 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: I know about a dozen people who "know" Klingon. Out of them, only two are what I would call "geeks". The rest are _nerds_ |
| 22:56.54 | NightHawkTheSane | but one of my friends is (reasonably) familiar with tolkien's languages and she's doing quite well, socially speaking :P |
| 22:57.03 | alestane | <pedant>There is no language called "Klingon." The language is Tlinzhai or something similar.</pedant> |
| 22:57.05 | NightHawkTheSane | certainly the extreme exception, though |
| 22:57.17 | Amarande | Dagmar: this leads into a definition war between "geek" and "nerd" |
| 22:57.21 | Amarande | which is largely a matter of semantics |
| 22:57.32 | Amarande | (also: the more heavily you debate the definition of geek vs. nerd, the more likely you are to be a nerd.) |
| 22:57.38 | Dagmar | Ah but it can be easily demonstrated with examples. |
| 22:57.56 | Amarande | well yeah, the ones who look like Justin Bieber are nerds |
| 22:57.58 | NightHawkTheSane | geeks are what mainstream media lables people who pretend to be nerds. |
| 22:58.15 | miica | i did it! :) |
| 22:58.29 | miica | it is kinda good! :) |
| 23:00.12 | Dagmar | I don't mean to be hostile-sounding about it, but i've been to too many cons where you see the actual nerds and practically have to drink awway the urge to say "YOU THERE! GO TO YOUR ROOM AND SHOWER NOW, AND BUY A GODDAMN HAIRBRUSH ON YOUR WAY" |
| 23:01.13 | Amarande | Dagmar: you have to consider that that sweat smell isn't necessarily from individual people |
| 23:01.28 | Amarande | when you have 40,000 people in three hotels, anything that's normally a fairly minor thing gets multiplied intensely |
| 23:01.48 | Amarande | it's just like how a level eleven is often lucky to solo Hogger, but enough level ones can take him down. :) |
| 23:01.50 | Dagmar | Trust me, when you can smell an individual in that, it's long past time for them to do something abou it. |
| 23:02.12 | batrick | man |
| 23:02.25 | batrick | cnn has amazing news titles: "The risk of being an 'angry black man'" |
| 23:02.25 | Amarande | I'm saying, are you sure you're smelling the individual rather than the sardine-packed group? |
| 23:02.31 | Amarande | Especially if it's the Hyatt elevators at Dragon*Con |
| 23:02.34 | Dagmar | If you've been to large rock concerts before you have to know that it *is* in fact possible to put 20,000 people in one building without it smelling like armpit. |
| 23:02.36 | batrick | (with a pic of obama) |
| 23:02.39 | NightHawkTheSane | actually, it's the very fact that when you stick a few thousand people together that happens that you need to insist on hygine. |
| 23:02.44 | Thunder_Child | batrick: well, it is true |
| 23:04.04 | Dagmar | There's a million little reasons why someone has an "excuse" to stink at a 'con, none of which are valid. |
| 23:04.36 | cbreak | it's a perfume con. |
| 23:04.44 | Amarande | Dagmar: how about "being all sweaty because you just lugged a heavy piece of con swag back to the room in ninety degree weather" |
| 23:04.45 | cbreak | ^ valid excuse |
| 23:04.50 | Dagmar | In fact, if someone has the time and gumption to travel 500 miles to buy fucking comic books, but can't plan well enough to have a proper room reservation so they can shower, they *really* need to reassess their whole approach to life |
| 23:05.27 | Dagmar | Amarande: o/~ "It's called 'deodorant'... it ain't expensive..." o/~ |
| 23:05.30 | batrick | dagmar needs more opinions |
| 23:05.32 | batrick | imo |
| 23:05.35 | NightHawkTheSane | batrick: agree |
| 23:05.40 | cog|work | ~dagma |
| 23:05.42 | purl | [dagma] a belief held by dagmar without evidence |
| 23:05.44 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: stop being so wishy washy and unopinionated. |
| 23:06.04 | Amarande | anyway, I pay pretty good attention to my hygiene at Con. :) |
| 23:06.12 | batrick | dagmar is more abrasive than barbed sand paper |
| 23:06.18 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: Try trekking down to D*C to actually lecture sometime, with no idea exactly _where_ the lecture is |
| 23:06.20 | Amarande | the fact that I hang out with a significant number of attractive women each night makes this of particular import. |
| 23:06.44 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: i have no idea what that has to do with anything i said? |
| 23:06.48 | Thunder_Child | money will buy you anything |
| 23:06.57 | NightHawkTheSane | but i'd rather not try it, doesn't sound fun. |
| 23:07.04 | Dagmar | That you just bought a "heavy" piece of con swag isn't really an excuse |
| 23:07.13 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: wasn't me that said that. :P |
| 23:07.16 | Dagmar | Oh okay |
| 23:07.23 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: i'm agreeing with you, here ;) |
| 23:07.36 | Amarande | batrick: you are confusing Dagmar with DWSR. |
| 23:07.43 | batrick | no i'm not |
| 23:07.54 | Dagmar | If I can make it through DefCon without smelling like the dead at the end, people can handle Atlanta |
| 23:07.55 | Amarande | or maybe with Night, or Adys. |
| 23:08.10 | NightHawkTheSane | I'm only abrasive to stupid people. |
| 23:08.26 | Dagmar | Vegas might as well be the surface of the sun, with how poorly I handle heat |
| 23:08.32 | Thunder_Child | NightHawkTheSane: so....everyone? |
| 23:08.36 | Cide | shirik: does ::Foo refer to global namespace in all contexts? |
| 23:08.38 | NightHawkTheSane | Thunder_Child: shush ;) |
| 23:08.41 | Adys | Amarande what? |
| 23:08.50 | Shirik | yes Cide |
| 23:08.53 | Amarande | Adys: batrick is thinking that Dagmar is more abrasive than you. :) |
| 23:08.54 | Cide | neat |
| 23:08.57 | Cide | should be good to know |
| 23:08.58 | Adys | Oh he is |
| 23:09.02 | NightHawkTheSane | Adys: you're apparently abrasive. like a pumice stone or something |
| 23:09.55 | Dagmar | I'm not "abrasive". I just hit a point where I'm pretty sure honesty overrules politeness and when I'm there I stop worrying about tears |
| 23:10.11 | batrick | not really no |
| 23:10.20 | batrick | you are aggressively oppionnated (sp?) |
| 23:10.20 | batbot | batrick, nothing found. |
| 23:10.25 | batrick | everyone must know your opinion |
| 23:10.30 | batrick | or their day is less meaningful |
| 23:10.36 | Dagmar | batrick: Hardly |
| 23:10.40 | batrick | btw, Who else is going to DefCon this SummeR? |
| 23:10.48 | Amarande | say, PTR people |
| 23:10.48 | Dagmar | I will not, however, sit idly by in the presence of bogons |
| 23:10.50 | Amarande | with this real ID thing |
| 23:10.58 | NightHawkTheSane | batrick: opinionated(sp) |
| 23:10.59 | batbot | NightHawkTheSane, opinionated is correct. |
| 23:11.00 | Amarande | is there any way to keep particular characters secret from your real ID friends? |
| 23:11.28 | Thunder_Child | nope |
| 23:11.30 | Dagmar | Amarande: Don't want people to know it's you who runs that dancing nelf hooker? |
| 23:11.42 | Thunder_Child | or at least not as far as i know |
| 23:11.46 | cbreak | different accounts. |
| 23:11.56 | foxlit | RealID is a privacy failure. |
| 23:12.21 | Thunder_Child | it is voulentary (sp?) however foxlit |
| 23:12.21 | eidolarr | I think their clunky attempt at removing smurfing is the worst part of that |
| 23:12.22 | batbot | Thunder_Child, nothing found. |
| 23:12.22 | cbreak | as much as that face thing |
| 23:12.22 | *** part/#wowuidev Bartlomehus (~Michel@wetering.xs4all.nl) |
| 23:12.32 | foxlit | Thunder_Child: yes, that's a saving grace. |
| 23:12.41 | Dagmar | smurfing? |
| 23:12.45 | Thunder_Child | foxlit: except for you |
| 23:12.57 | eidolarr | yeah your rating is essentially shared across all your SC2 accounts |
| 23:13.19 | foxlit | I don't think you have multiple SC2 accounts. |
| 23:13.22 | eidolarr | smurfing is when skilled players create new accounts over and over to beat up on newbies indefinitely |
| 23:13.44 | eidolarr | I think you have different identifiers for the same acconut |
| 23:13.49 | Dagmar | Oh. Fuck what those people want then. |
| 23:14.01 | Amarande | eidolarr: can't you do that in arena in WoW anyway, though? |
| 23:14.06 | Amarande | keep disbanding the team and starting over at 0? |
| 23:14.10 | eidolarr | no, because they have the same hidden constant rating |
| 23:14.16 | eidolarr | you'll still be matched up at your appropriate rating |
| 23:14.26 | *** join/#wowuidev xykonic (ircap@74-128-245-245.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 23:14.38 | *** part/#wowuidev xykonic (ircap@74-128-245-245.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 23:14.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (~Lopeppepp@cpe-67-252-44-53.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 23:14.48 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 23:14.48 | eidolarr | Dagmar: sure sure but look at the side effects |
| 23:14.55 | Amarande | Heya Peppy :) |
| 23:15.04 | eidolarr | want to learn a new race? try a crazy new strat? play with a less skilled friend in 2c2? |
| 23:15.16 | eidolarr | can't without wrecking your rating, and playing against ridiculously hard opponents |
| 23:15.43 | foxlit | The last part is BS. |
| 23:15.49 | eidolarr | ? |
| 23:15.49 | Dagmar | eidolarr: So? |
| 23:15.50 | foxlit | Or maybe not. |
| 23:16.00 | Dagmar | eidolarr: What's that got to do with deliberately sacking newbies? |
| 23:16.04 | foxlit | Team ratings are a separate thing. |
| 23:16.14 | eidolarr | yes but not for matchmaking purposes |
| 23:16.17 | Dagmar | They can make a custom game and do whatever they like. |
| 23:16.19 | eidolarr | it's like in woW |
| 23:16.29 | foxlit | yesyes, but who cares about that? |
| 23:16.42 | foxlit | Worst case scenario is that your proper 2v2 will face easier opponents? |
| 23:16.42 | Dagmar | Pissing on newbies accomplishes one thing that Blizz will be against... It makes newbies say "fuck this" and chuck the disc out the window |
| 23:16.46 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: so the choice is between a slightly restrictive experience for players who are already drinking your kool-ade and quite good, to boot, or scaring away newer/inexperienced players because a bunch of douches like to beat up little kids for kicks? I'll take the latter every time. |
| 23:17.07 | eidolarr | foxlit: have you done WoW arenas? it's the same problem |
| 23:17.11 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: Wait, you *want* to chase newbies away? |
| 23:17.12 | Amarande | Night: speaking of which |
| 23:17.15 | eidolarr | you want to be playing at your rating |
| 23:17.17 | foxlit | Not that they fixed it, but I agree with NHTS's sentiment. |
| 23:17.21 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: damit |
| 23:17.29 | eidolarr | if you face easy players you stand to gain virtually nothing and stand to lose a huge chunk of your rating |
| 23:17.29 | Amarande | I wonder how many people got turned off to WoW because they happened to roll the wrong faction on a rough PvP server in the beginning |
| 23:17.30 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: no, i meant former |
| 23:17.35 | Dagmar | Ah okay |
| 23:17.51 | foxlit | eidolarr: if you lose to easy players, you deserve to lose a huge chunk of your rating. |
| 23:17.53 | foxlit | system works. |
| 23:18.02 | eidolarr | foxlit: there's a difference between "easy" and "easier" |
| 23:18.05 | Amarande | foxlit: if it's anything like some Elo systems I've seen, though |
| 23:18.14 | eidolarr | a 2300 team in WoW might lose to a 2100 now and then due to bad luck, or a disconnect, or whatever |
| 23:18.16 | Amarande | if there's enough of a rating difference, you actually lose rating *even if you win* |
| 23:18.27 | *** join/#wowuidev amro (~amro@41.102.166.39) |
| 23:18.35 | Amarande | I think it's like 400+ points difference that induces that |
| 23:18.46 | Dagmar | ...and if you can't pull of a new strategy, apparently you're not as hot shit as you think you are and it's time to lose some rating. |
| 23:19.18 | foxlit | eidolarr: If you lose to easier players, you stand to play even easier players. |
| 23:19.30 | Lopeppeppy | Heya, Amarande! Happy Wednesday! |
| 23:19.43 | foxlit | I'm sure it'll recover gracefully if you end up face-punching your way through one or two games. |
| 23:19.44 | eidolarr | foxlit: yes and maybe you can gain back what you lost in time |
| 23:19.56 | eidolarr | no matter how you try to spin it, this is a probelm that exists today in WoW's ladder |
| 23:20.13 | eidolarr | no one playing thinks "ok i'll lose a few games so that... i can win the rating back over the course of 2 hours!" |
| 23:20.29 | foxlit | WoW ladder isn't that interesting when talking about SC2 |
| 23:20.30 | cbreak | rating means nothing. |
| 23:20.50 | cbreak | what good is it to have a higher or lower rating? what bad is it? |
| 23:21.03 | foxlit | It may be the same hidden rating system, but there is no equivalent of arena points or rating-requiring gear. |
| 23:21.04 | eidolarr | foxlit: it uses the same constant rating scheme that SC2 will |
| 23:21.11 | eidolarr | where have i mentioned points or gear? |
| 23:21.14 | cbreak | the only thing that changes are the ratings of your opponents. |
| 23:21.15 | eidolarr | i'm talking purely in terms of rank |
| 23:21.46 | foxlit | And I'm saying the incentives that are there for wow players to keep high rating |
| 23:21.51 | foxlit | aren't there in SC2. |
| 23:21.57 | eidolarr | oh, so sc2 players won't care about their rating |
| 23:22.00 | eidolarr | or their rank |
| 23:22.06 | cbreak | why should they? |
| 23:22.06 | eidolarr | have you ever played SC1 or WC3 online/ |
| 23:22.06 | foxlit | You want a rating that provides you with level-appropriate opponents. That is all. |
| 23:22.10 | eidolarr | that is patently false |
| 23:22.23 | eidolarr | they care MORE about their rating than WoW players because it's not linked to an artificial reward system that caps out at 2200 |
| 23:22.30 | cbreak | why would anyone care about their rank? |
| 23:22.45 | foxlit | cbreak: I presume: "epeen is <========> this long" |
| 23:22.47 | cbreak | it has no effect. |
| 23:22.55 | eidolarr | why don't you ask the WoW players that struggel to keep 2900 when the cutoff is 2400 for gladiator? |
| 23:22.56 | NightHawkTheSane | cbreak: because they place a great amount of importance in a game to make up for their own shortcomings. |
| 23:23.10 | eidolarr | lol right |
| 23:23.15 | eidolarr | "good sc2 players are all losers" |
| 23:23.17 | eidolarr | you sound pathetic |
| 23:23.25 | NightHawkTheSane | i didn't say that |
| 23:23.44 | eidolarr | alright that was too cavalier and i apologize |
| 23:23.46 | cbreak | it is meaningless. |
| 23:23.49 | NightHawkTheSane | I said "people who care about a number with no intrinsic meaning other than to match against other players of equal skill" are losers. |
| 23:24.06 | eidolarr | sigh |
| 23:24.07 | NightHawkTheSane | ;) |
| 23:24.18 | eidolarr | a lot of players care about trying their best |
| 23:24.25 | NightHawkTheSane | that's fine, that's great. |
| 23:24.28 | eidolarr | or want to keep fighting the hardest opponents they can |
| 23:24.30 | *** part/#wowuidev Babelfish (~WinNT@c-68-50-224-114.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 23:24.30 | NightHawkTheSane | that has nothing to do with a meaningless number |
| 23:24.31 | cbreak | what I wondered most was the stupid initial 5 matches stuff in SC2 |
| 23:24.54 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: when the number is the basis of the amtchmaking system it absolutely does |
| 23:25.01 | NightHawkTheSane | a player can continually work to improve themselves and be better without ever needint to know or care what their "rank" is |
| 23:25.01 | eidolarr | and when the number is an indicator of how well you've played |
| 23:25.13 | eidolarr | cbreak: those 5 matches are an excellent rapid initial matchmaking tool |
| 23:25.13 | cbreak | it would be much smarter if you could just select which division you want to start in |
| 23:25.39 | cbreak | and you could fight people around your own strength right away instead of wasting five matches |
| 23:25.50 | eidolarr | "wasting"? |
| 23:25.53 | eidolarr | i thought we were playing for fun |
| 23:25.56 | eidolarr | and league/rating meant nothing |
| 23:26.21 | cbreak | playing for fun is not the same as playing against people with years more SC experience and months more SC2 experience |
| 23:26.23 | Dagmar | cbreak: ...and yet the smurfing |
| 23:26.49 | cbreak | I wanted to start in copper, so why did I have to fight gold level players? |
| 23:26.52 | Dagmar | If you were allowed to pick your starting bracket, those people would pick 0. |
| 23:27.13 | eidolarr | cbreak: if you select "i'm new to RTS" and lose your first match you will absolutely not fight another gold player in your initial matches |
| 23:27.26 | eidolarr | you're bitching about a problem that doesn't exist |
| 23:27.47 | cbreak | I lost my first five |
| 23:27.47 | eidolarr | in fact, if you choose "i'm a newb" and do anythnig but win your first 2 or 3 you won't fight a gold player |
| 23:27.57 | cbreak | against a variety of gold, silver and platinum players |
| 23:27.59 | Dagmar | No, you'll likely fight someone with a lot of experience who said "OOO! EASY WIN MODE!" |
| 23:28.01 | eidolarr | yeah well somebody has to be at the bottom =) |
| 23:28.10 | Dagmar | Go over to HoN and try to play a "newbie" match. |
| 23:28.20 | foxlit | The problem might be beta-specific |
| 23:28.24 | Dagmar | Explain how someone can up and two-shot you in less than the time it takes you to read the tooltips |
| 23:28.26 | eidolarr | yes the beta player pool is very small |
| 23:28.35 | foxlit | Though they're kind of screwed at launch, too -- they have no prior ratings for the initial matchups. |
| 23:28.53 | foxlit | Once they do have a pool, though, it'd be trivial to match you up with five increasingly difficult opponents until you fail. |
| 23:28.53 | eidolarr | nah with a huge number of players playing, they'll be able to match dynamically much better |
| 23:29.12 | eidolarr | cbreak: how are you identifying the players as gold/platinum? |
| 23:29.19 | cbreak | I asked them. |
| 23:29.20 | eidolarr | btw it's bronze->diamond now not copper->plat |
| 23:29.28 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: which, as a pretty casual rts player, is a pretty good reason for me to not buy it on launch day ;) |
| 23:29.43 | foxlit | NightHawkTheSane: play campaign on launch day :) |
| 23:29.56 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: well, probably, but you take my meaning ;) |
| 23:30.01 | eidolarr | If you look at WC3's tournament systems, where you play 10 games, the matchmaking is generally very good even though it doesn't take prior context into account |
| 23:30.08 | eidolarr | because of the number of players rolling |
| 23:30.20 | eidolarr | which is much greater than the number of people playing SC2 beta qualifying matches at any given time |
| 23:30.52 | amro | the issue with RTS is match length |
| 23:30.54 | Thunder_Child | Shirik|Gh: http://www.ononesoftware.com/detail.php?prodLine_id=33 |
| 23:31.13 | amro | there's nothing wrong with the matchmaking |
| 23:32.13 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 23:32.23 | eidolarr | anyway, back to smurfing - an accurate rating is good for everyone, and it's good that players want to keep their rating as high as they can |
| 23:32.27 | eidolarr | that's how the system is designed to work |
| 23:32.55 | cbreak | people should not bother about rankings |
| 23:33.01 | cbreak | they should just play as good as they can |
| 23:33.09 | NightHawkTheSane | i dont know why they dont just hide rankinks altogether |
| 23:33.29 | eidolarr | starcraft is a competitive game |
| 23:33.31 | cbreak | so people can evaluate their strenth |
| 23:34.05 | eidolarr | when I played WC3 there was no smurfing protection, a new account was a new rating, and imo the benefits of such a system greatly outweigh the flaws |
| 23:34.06 | NightHawkTheSane | a rolling win/loss ratio would probably provide a decent success metric |
| 23:34.30 | cbreak | win/loss doesn't mean much |
| 23:34.32 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: that's basically what the system is - a strong algorithm for keeping players at 50% win/loss |
| 23:34.37 | cbreak | if you don't track against who |
| 23:34.54 | Amarande | eidolarr: fail by design, you mean? :) |
| 23:35.00 | cbreak | it would also be nice if those ratios/statistics would be tracked on a per-race granularity |
| 23:35.02 | Amarande | after all, 50% *is* a failing grade heh |
| 23:35.07 | eidolarr | cbreak: unless you somehow associated a number with each player indicating skill |
| 23:35.11 | NightHawkTheSane | cbreak: well, by making it a rolling count, you're really only looking at recent matches, so you can say "recently, i've been increaing my win %, so i'm doing better" or what have you |
| 23:35.17 | eidolarr | so that you could evaluate the worth of any given win |
| 23:35.20 | eidolarr | we could call it "rating" |
| 23:35.23 | cbreak | eidolarr: that's the whole point of an ELO system |
| 23:35.32 | eidolarr | nooooo way |
| 23:35.53 | eidolarr | but i thought rating meant nothing?! |
| 23:36.03 | cbreak | it doesn't |
| 23:36.17 | amro | eidolarr: rankings aren't necessary for competition |
| 23:36.19 | cbreak | it's automatically calculated for you |
| 23:36.26 | cbreak | you don't need to care about it |
| 23:36.39 | cbreak | you can just play as good as you can, and everything should work |
| 23:36.48 | Dagmar | People want easy wins |
| 23:36.56 | cbreak | it's not like in WoW where you can play as good as you can, and you will still suck |
| 23:36.59 | Dagmar | ...regardless of all this talk of how they like a challenge. |
| 23:37.03 | cbreak | until you equip that gear you loot |
| 23:37.27 | theorbtwo | The somewhat interesting thing is that they *could* make it so that you can choose how difficult an opponent you will get. |
| 23:37.31 | eidolarr | in a solid ranking system the rating is a strong indicator of your skill as a player, and it controls your matchmaking |
| 23:37.34 | eidolarr | rating means a lot |
| 23:38.03 | cbreak | it is of no importance what rating you have, because it is managed by the system |
| 23:38.13 | cbreak | it's like your IP address. Do you know yours? |
| 23:38.16 | eidolarr | the system that completely controls your gaming experience |
| 23:38.17 | cbreak | probably not. |
| 23:38.20 | theorbtwo | There's no partiuclar reason that they need to tune the system so that everybody gets a 50% win ratio. They could let you choose to have a 75% win ratio. |
| 23:38.25 | eidolarr | no but i have no influence on it and it doesn't control my internet experience |
| 23:38.25 | cbreak | but still, without it, you couldn't do anything on the net |
| 23:38.27 | foxlit | You kind of have no way to look up your matchmaking rating. |
| 23:38.31 | Amarande | theorbtwo: okay, EVERYONE gets a 75% win ratio? |
| 23:38.33 | eidolarr | terrible analogy |
| 23:38.35 | Amarande | how does this work, exactly? |
| 23:38.39 | foxlit | And you certainly don't have any way to look up anyone else's. |
| 23:38.43 | amro | eidolarr: the system SHOULDN'T completely control your gaming experience |
| 23:38.46 | cbreak | oh, it does. It's managed by the system. |
| 23:38.48 | Amarande | everyone loses a quarter of their games and wins three quarters ... |
| 23:38.53 | amro | there are friends lists and clans and tournaments |
| 23:39.00 | eidolarr | amro: that's the purpose of a matchmaking system, to get you good challenging interesting games |
| 23:39.10 | theorbtwo | Amarande: The system would start pairing you with people it thinks you have a 75% chance of winning against. |
| 23:39.20 | theorbtwo | That is, people who are significantly better then you. |
| 23:39.21 | amro | eidolarr: yes, but it's not the only way to get good challenging games |
| 23:39.24 | amro | nor is it the ideal way |
| 23:39.41 | Dagmar | Amarande: Wins three quarters? Everyone? How exactly do you figure that? |
| 23:39.50 | theorbtwo | Presumably they have chosen to have a 25% win ratio. |
| 23:39.53 | amro | for example look at fighting games, highly competitive and people don't have trouble finding good matches without any ranking |
| 23:40.06 | eidolarr | amro: well they've also done away with chat channels which hurts clans, and tournaments are just temporary rating systems |
| 23:40.10 | foxlit | Dagmar: some "players" are in fact Blizzard AI bots. |
| 23:40.18 | foxlit | They absorb the 75% loss count :) |
| 23:40.24 | foxlit | Problem solved. |
| 23:40.28 | cbreak | no fun |
| 23:40.32 | Dagmar | foxlit: Really? That's sneaky, but very cool if it's true |
| 23:40.36 | foxlit | You'll neeeever know. |
| 23:40.37 | cbreak | the SC2 AI sucks more than I do |
| 23:40.50 | foxlit | They didn't ship the SC2 AI :) |
| 23:40.58 | cbreak | I played against it |
| 23:41.01 | cbreak | in a custom map |
| 23:41.05 | theorbtwo | cbreak: but are you sure that's not because it's designed to suck? |
| 23:41.05 | foxlit | "Very easy" :) |
| 23:41.06 | cbreak | it's so bad :/ |
| 23:41.18 | eidolarr | cbreak: they haven't released the "hard" modes |
| 23:41.19 | cbreak | theorbtwo: no, I am not sure. |
| 23:41.20 | theorbtwo | Ah. In a custom map. |
| 23:41.25 | cbreak | I only stated the facts, not the cause. |
| 23:41.32 | eidolarr | in previous games their AIs have been pretty danm hard |
| 23:41.34 | eidolarr | SC1, WC3 |
| 23:41.46 | eidolarr | formulaic though, wouldn't be fun to play against online |
| 23:41.49 | theorbtwo | It might be that the AI relies on hints that the custom map author didn't put in. |
| 23:42.02 | amro | sc1/wc3 AI simply forced you to buld faster |
| 23:42.23 | eidolarr | wc3 AI played like an upper-middle tier player |
| 23:42.27 | eidolarr | a very predictable one |
| 23:42.39 | theorbtwo | I thought for a long time that I didn't like RTSes because of that. |
| 23:42.50 | eidolarr | sc1 it's hard to call because the game has been around 12yr |
| 23:43.11 | amro | it's not like AI really matters in a competitive game |
| 23:43.13 | theorbtwo | Turns out that I don't mind them when I'm not expected to go from zero to upper-middle tier. |
| 23:43.14 | amro | it would need constant updates |
| 23:43.22 | eidolarr | or cheats |
| 23:43.26 | eidolarr | like in brood war single player |
| 23:43.34 | eidolarr | shit pissed me off, when their zealots could solo my ultras |
| 23:43.37 | theorbtwo | Or to actually be artifically intelegent. |
| 23:43.46 | foxlit | amro: I'm sure you could work something out if you let it watch other battle.net games |
| 23:43.50 | amro | cheating AIs are an insult to the field |
| 23:43.51 | theorbtwo | (Unlike my spelling.) |
| 23:44.13 | amro | foxlit: assuming it's advanced enough to learn |
| 23:44.16 | eidolarr | i guess it wasn't the AI that cheated but their units did like +50% dmg |
| 23:44.19 | amro | but nobody would put that kind of budget on video game AI |
| 23:44.22 | theorbtwo | foxlit: Or made it evolve, and relied on the MM part of it being an MMRTS. |
| 23:44.22 | Amarande | odd WoW things: exactly how a *good guy* managed to get named Rexxar. |
| 23:44.27 | amro | especially when people would still rather play against humans |
| 23:44.41 | foxlit | In short, you could make it work. If you wanted to. I doubt they want to. |
| 23:44.53 | amro | exactly |
| 23:45.00 | amro | AI is just an elaborate placeholder |
| 23:45.10 | theorbtwo | Note, BTW, that the ranking system is *exactly* what you want for training an AI against. |
| 23:45.34 | Dagmar | theorbtwo++ |
| 23:46.20 | eidolarr | here's another example of "smurfing" being good: when i was first playing WC3 (way back in high school wow it's been awhile) |
| 23:46.21 | theorbtwo | Actually, the more I think about it, the less that is true. You don't just want an AI that plays well, you want an AI that plays well and gives an enjoyable partnership. |
| 23:46.40 | eidolarr | my friends and i had a wide spread of skill, some didnt nkow wtf was going on and some were well ranked |
| 23:47.04 | eidolarr | so we all made new accounts and made up a wacky ass double-tower rush 4v4 strategy that was fun, lost more often than not, and brought everyone to the same level |
| 23:47.09 | eidolarr | can't do that anymore in sc2 |
| 23:47.33 | WobWork | eidolarr: I'm... newly coming into this conversation... but... 'smurfing'? |
| 23:47.36 | eidolarr | i can't play with my tremendously lesser skilled friends anymore in 2v2 for giggles anymore |
| 23:47.37 | theorbtwo | Hm, you think that's a long time? I played starcraft in high school. |
| 23:47.55 | eidolarr | WobWork: "smurfing" is an artifact of a ranking system where you can restart at 0 rating at any time |
| 23:48.01 | eidolarr | where skilled players remake over and over to beat up newbies |
| 23:48.13 | eidolarr | SC2's solution is to give each player a persistent matchmaking rating |
| 23:48.14 | WobWork | oh. For the lulz |
| 23:48.28 | Amarande | I guess the real thing to wonder is |
| 23:48.36 | Amarande | is there any real need to make the ratings KNOWN? |
| 23:48.41 | Amarande | as long as people are matchmade based on them? |
| 23:48.48 | eidolarr | that's immaterial |
| 23:49.02 | Dagmar | WobWork: Yeah I'm glad it's got a name more specific than just "greifing" now |
| 23:49.02 | theorbtwo | Amarande: It keeps a certian type of person playing. |
| 23:49.02 | eidolarr | even if they're not known it fucks up the game for the situations i suggested |
| 23:49.18 | eidolarr | Dagmar: that's been named smurfing since SC1 but only in the RTS community really |
| 23:49.20 | Dagmar | WobWork: I'm pretty sure that sort of behaviour is killing HoN and the other DotA clone |
| 23:49.22 | WobWork | Dagmar: now it sounds happy and cheerier! |
| 23:49.29 | WobWork | (and bluer!) |
| 23:49.49 | Dagmar | You can almost be guaranteed to get a bum-rushing if you start a match on either of those and flag the match as newbie-friendly |
| 23:50.13 | eidolarr | have you ever tried making a new 2v2 in WoW with a silly comp or a newbie friend? |
| 23:50.18 | NightHawkTheSane | theorbtwo: i'd wager dollars to donuts the number of new/inexperienced players that KEEP playing because they're not getting griefed is greater than the number of people who quit because they can't see their ranking :P |
| 23:50.26 | eidolarr | you get matched up at teams you have no hope of beating because of your rating, it's incredibly frustrating |
| 23:50.36 | amro | eidolarr: how does it fuck up the game exactly? is it not possible to start a match outside of the system? |
| 23:50.56 | theorbtwo | NightHawkTheSane: I'm not clear how those are the two options. |
| 23:50.58 | eidolarr | you can play custom games but they don't work well because you can't skill-match them and people usually just dick around in them |
| 23:50.58 | tem | eidolarr, you're missing something there |
| 23:51.07 | tem | Personal ratings are only for 1v1 play |
| 23:51.16 | tem | team ratings are per team |
| 23:51.18 | NightHawkTheSane | theorbtwo: well, to be certain, they're not |
| 23:51.36 | eidolarr | tem: yes but the matchmaking rating persists |
| 23:51.41 | cbreak | I am a gold rank SC2 player in 3v3 it seems. |
| 23:51.48 | cbreak | but copper in 1v1 |
| 23:51.56 | cbreak | I don't think the ratings are connected to be honest... |
| 23:52.05 | NightHawkTheSane | theorbtwo: but the point is, having the system is the preferralbe option, even if you end up losing players (due to hiding it, for example) |
| 23:52.11 | tem | If you queue for a 2v2 match with someone you've never played with before, it forces you to do a new set of placement matches |
| 23:52.11 | eidolarr | cbreak: per bracket they are |
| 23:52.15 | Dagmar | So, you're not even good at playing with yourself? |
| 23:52.15 | tem | each team has it's own rating |
| 23:52.23 | amro | eidolarr: you were just saying how you want to reset to 0, now you're saying you want skill matching? |
| 23:52.42 | tem | eidolarr, but it DOESNT persist. |
| 23:52.50 | eidolarr | tem: that wasn't my experience trying the beta with my wow mate then my little cousin but it is a beta |
| 23:52.53 | eidolarr | that would be a lot better |
| 23:52.57 | Dagmar | I can't see any reasonable reason to want to reset your score UNLESS you're just looking for easy wins |
| 23:53.06 | foxlit | ' |
| 23:53.09 | Dagmar | ...and if that's what you want, why bother with playing against other people at all |
| 23:53.10 | tem | You can't reset a team's rating |
| 23:53.19 | foxlit | "But I want to try a new strategy" => Try it in non-ranking games. |
| 23:53.31 | eidolarr | non-ranking games aren't matchmade and aren't serious |
| 23:53.32 | cbreak | or... just try a new strategy? |
| 23:53.35 | cbreak | I did that all the time. |
| 23:53.39 | tem | I did as well |
| 23:53.41 | Dagmar | foxlit: To those people the answer is simple... If your new strategy fails, clearly you are not as good as you think you are |
| 23:53.45 | foxlit | cbreak: "But I might lose!" |
| 23:53.47 | cbreak | it's absolutely not a problem to try new strategies |
| 23:53.49 | Amarande | yeah, even chess masters put new opening theory into practice every now and then |
| 23:53.55 | tem | but I would have been less inclined to do that if I didn't know they were going to do pretty constant resets |
| 23:54.07 | Amarande | at least, *sometimes* they don't play the Najdorf from book out to move umpteen over and over again :P |
| 23:54.09 | cbreak | hell, I even tried old strategies. And I even started to use strategies at all! |
| 23:54.30 | Amarande | there is a reason I almost do not ever open 1 e4 in chess, except against weak players |
| 23:54.31 | cbreak | (using strategies helped me increase my winning chances!) |
| 23:54.57 | Amarande | by sticking to the c, d, or f pawn, I avoid GETTING THE SAME STUPID FUCKING SICILIAN OVER AND OVER AGAIN |
| 23:54.57 | tem | anyway, eidolarr, the profile only shows your most recent 2v2 rating, but if you go to ladders, you will see all of your 2v2 teams |
| 23:55.13 | Amarande | you know what's weird |
| 23:55.20 | Amarande | once I set a computer chess program of mine to play itself |
| 23:55.22 | tem | the one thing it doesn't allow you to do is having 3 people on the same 2v2 team |
| 23:55.23 | Amarande | WITHOUT an opening book installed |
| 23:55.28 | Amarande | and it ... played the Sicilian anyway |
| 23:55.29 | Amarande | :| |
| 23:55.38 | eidolarr | tem: what happened to us was the ratings appeared to have been reset but in qualifying rounsd the teams were very difficult, and we were placed in a league we shouldn't hav been in |
| 23:55.53 | cbreak | Amarande: that's not weird at all... I wrote a chess program once that played itself... |
| 23:55.56 | eidolarr | tem: that was the case in WC3 too |
| 23:55.57 | cbreak | and it made a truce! |
| 23:56.14 | tem | corralation != causation |
| 23:57.00 | tem | Onyxia Deep Breaths more if you don't spread out enough. |
| 23:57.08 | eidolarr | i'm not seeing the relevance |
| 23:57.09 | NightHawkTheSane | tem: when you say "team", is there a distinct process for creating a team, or does it just dynamically 'create' a team for you anytime you play with someone new? |
| 23:57.17 | Amarande | cbreak: anyway, the point is, I find the Sicilian Defense to be annoying, irritating, boring, exasperating and just plain irksome |
| 23:57.24 | Amarande | and if I play 1 e4 against a computer or any reasonably strong human being |
| 23:57.27 | tem | NHTS, the second one |
| 23:57.32 | Amarande | I can be absolutely assured I will see that c-pawn move forward two squares in reply :P |
| 23:57.44 | tem | "teams" are just created when you play enough placement matches with that person |
| 23:57.46 | Cide | the trigger for deep breath is actuallya a threshold for the RMS of distances between players |
| 23:57.47 | NightHawkTheSane | tem: so it's basically just recording rankings of unique player combos ;) |
| 23:57.48 | cbreak | you can do something creative |
| 23:57.51 | Cide | I have tested this |
| 23:57.55 | cbreak | like starting with a knight |
| 23:57.58 | tem | NHTS yes |
| 23:58.00 | Amarande | therefore, I stick to the Queen's Pawn, or the English, or the Bird's |
| 23:58.05 | NightHawkTheSane | thats pretty cool |
| 23:58.05 | eidolarr | NightHawkTheSane: yeah but only if you queue together |
| 23:58.12 | NightHawkTheSane | eidolarr: yeah, i get that part |
| 23:58.12 | eidolarr | random ladder is obviously its own thing |
| 23:58.21 | tem | oh right |
| 23:58.24 | tem | forgot to mention that |
| 23:58.39 | tem | RT was kind of bullshit though |
| 23:58.47 | tem | since you get matched vs arranged teams |
| 23:58.52 | tem | which is quite obviously unfair |
| 23:58.54 | eidolarr | really? |
| 23:59.01 | tem | really. |
| 23:59.06 | eidolarr | citation? |
| 23:59.33 | tem | It may have changed by now since people cried BITTERLY about it on the forums |
| 23:59.44 | eidolarr | actually that sounds like a beta-only thing to increase match volume |
| 23:59.56 | tem | and hey, we got the identifier bullshit pulled by crying a lot so one can hope |
| 23:59.56 | Kraps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtshsHfYa_0&feature=related |
| 23:59.59 | cbreak | I got randomly matched against a team of 3 zerg once. They had fitting names... |
