| 00:00.26 | Dagmar | An apps account isn't a "real" gmail account? |
| 00:00.31 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 00:00.41 | Dagmar | At any rate you should be able to tell Google Apps to just make your own personal editable copy |
| 00:00.53 | Arrowmaster | although google docs is part of apps accounts |
| 00:00.55 | Arrowmaster | i think |
| 00:00.59 | Dagmar | It is |
| 00:01.11 | Dagmar | ...which also includes Gmail, which is what baffles me. |
| 00:01.12 | Arrowmaster | but when i try to edit it, it wants me to login to a google account and not an apps account |
| 00:01.28 | Dagmar | My guild has pawsforconcern.org google everything because of that |
| 00:01.50 | Arrowmaster | ive got like 2 google accounts and 3 apps accounts |
| 00:02.15 | Dagmar | Hell I guess tell it to send it to your "real" Google account then |
| 00:02.28 | Arrowmaster | that requires work |
| 00:02.52 | Arrowmaster | ill just copy and paste it, make the changes, and email by my changes as text and let the other person do it |
| 00:10.43 | *** join/#wowuidev myrkraverk (~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk) |
| 00:13.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan (~pancake@cpe-174-098-002-214.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 00:15.15 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 00:15.15 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 00:20.01 | Fisker | WobWork |
| 00:20.06 | Fisker | the facebook integrations are killing me |
| 00:20.13 | Fisker | btw ckknight |
| 00:20.17 | WobWork | comforts Fisker |
| 00:20.19 | Fisker | i didn't know you made videos |
| 00:20.53 | ckknight | hmm? |
| 00:21.00 | ckknight | I did a while back. |
| 00:21.08 | WobWork | hey does anyone have a link to that image that showed 'Gamer strategy'? It had two people playing chess and the first saying to the second "I should learn to fight that strategy" and the second with two gamers, saying "Stop that! You can't keep using that move!" |
| 00:21.15 | Fisker | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCEQZ_4V7NY |
| 00:21.21 | Fisker | that's your movie ckknight |
| 00:21.32 | WobWork | old, Fisker |
| 00:22.16 | Fisker | old WobWork |
| 00:22.52 | ckknight | I was playing Portal on my Mac, but couldn't get past a certain part. Was able to make orange portals no problem, but the blue ones were having issues |
| 00:23.18 | Xinhuan | youtube videos |
| 00:23.31 | Fisker | ckknight is the problem 1-button mouse related? |
| 00:23.41 | ckknight | :P |
| 00:23.59 | Fisker | http://images.4chan.org/b/src/1274055698444.jpg |
| 00:23.59 | Fisker | sfw |
| 00:25.10 | Fisker | why is your window management system so retarded in mac btw ckknight ? |
| 00:25.22 | ckknight | lol, how so? |
| 00:25.46 | Fisker | where's alt-tab bro? |
| 00:26.45 | Dagmar | They don't need alt-tab, they hav a jog sensor. |
| 00:27.00 | Fisker | btw Shirik |
| 00:27.06 | alestane | Cmd-Tab works similarly anyway. |
| 00:27.26 | Fisker | lol cmd |
| 00:27.35 | Fisker | also you have no real taskbar |
| 00:27.38 | Fisker | that's messed up |
| 00:27.53 | Fisker | it's just a launcher herpty derpty doo |
| 00:28.13 | alestane | It also shows running applications. |
| 00:28.32 | Fisker | not on a per-window basis anyway i think |
| 00:28.39 | Fisker | unless it's some other obscure way of doing it |
| 00:28.44 | alestane | I can right-click an app and pick a window. |
| 00:28.49 | alestane | And there's Exposé. |
| 00:28.50 | Fisker | fffffuuuuuuuuuuu- |
| 00:28.57 | Fisker | can't hear ya alestane |
| 00:29.06 | Fisker | why is the justing guy double retarded then? |
| 00:29.17 | Fisker | Not even can he not figure out a PC, but not even his Mac can he figure out |
| 00:29.28 | Fisker | he shouldn't even keep his mac, they should replace it with a brick |
| 00:29.48 | *** join/#wowuidev myrkraverk (~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk) |
| 00:29.49 | WobWork | that's a solution that could be applied to a lot of people on the internet |
| 00:30.05 | Fisker | (mostly mac users though) |
| 00:30.13 | Dashkal | The brick is good, but could be upgraded simply by giving it to the user at high speed. |
| 00:30.16 | airtonix | Fisker, real question is : why can you only resize a window from the bottom right gripper |
| 00:30.55 | airtonix | Fisker, and why can i only move a window by dragging the titlebar around ? |
| 00:31.07 | Lunessa | Why does the sun come up? Are the stars only pin-holes in the curtain of night? |
| 00:31.18 | airtonix | Fisker, which leads back to : <Fisker> why is your window management system so retarded in mac btw ckknight ? |
| 00:31.21 | Fisker | Using a mac is like playing a console interface poorly ported to the PC |
| 00:31.37 | airtonix | Fisker, no its like living in the padded cells we are locked in |
| 00:31.43 | Lunessa | Why does anyone give two shits about anything Fisker has to say? |
| 00:31.59 | airtonix | He's like Kon from bleach |
| 00:32.33 | Fisker | baww Lunessa |
| 00:32.35 | Fisker | bawwwwwwwwwwwwww |
| 00:32.48 | Fisker | "imma macfag and i cant computer" |
| 00:33.25 | zenzelezz | at least you admit it now Fisker |
| 00:33.27 | airtonix | lol@icon size on mac.justins desktop |
| 00:33.58 | Lunessa | *chuckle* |
| 00:34.12 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-68-38-51-80.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 00:35.50 | Nechckn | Anyone know of a nearly-full XML AddOn right now? |
| 00:36.08 | Nechckn | err... primarily using XML, rather than Lua, that is. |
| 00:36.08 | alestane | JustTheArt is implemented mostly through XML. |
| 00:36.23 | Nechckn | kk- will check that out. Thank you, alestane |
| 00:52.28 | *** join/#wowuidev myrkraverk (~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk) |
| 00:53.46 | Lopeppeppy | I'm soooo silly, watching a scary movie before bed. |
| 00:54.15 | zenzelezz | hehe |
| 00:54.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko1 (~Kandoko@adsl-068-159-119-207.sip.gsp.bellsouth.net) |
| 00:54.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (~Kandoko@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 00:55.49 | Lopeppeppy | Nightmares!!! |
| 00:56.22 | Lunessa | boogah boogha |
| 00:57.16 | alestane | What scary movie? |
| 00:58.02 | Lopeppeppy | The Shining. |
| 00:58.10 | Lopeppeppy | That, and IT, are two that really do creep me the hell out. |
| 00:59.14 | alestane | Not so familiar with Mr. King. Saw part of The Stand once, read Firestarter. |
| 00:59.42 | Lopeppeppy | The book for IT is creepier than the movie in the ending, but the miniseries did a decent job up to the last... 40 minutes or so. |
| 01:00.49 | WobWork | I liked Firestarter |
| 01:00.59 | Nechckn | AI kinda sorta creeps me out, but not in the same way. =) |
| 01:01.00 | WobWork | it wasn't creepy, that I recall |
| 01:01.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Cide@c213-100-51-33.swipnet.se) |
| 01:01.03 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 01:01.07 | Cide | hi |
| 01:01.14 | WobWork | aside from the whole Government conspiracy thing |
| 01:01.18 | Nechckn | waves to Cide |
| 01:01.27 | Cide | so I got debian working whoo |
| 01:01.29 | WobWork | but I could be misremembering due to seeing it young |
| 01:01.33 | Cide | now to figure out dual monitors |
| 01:01.39 | Nechckn | eek... |
| 01:01.53 | WobWork | Cide: it means you need more than one, and less than three monitors |
| 01:02.05 | Cide | funny, you are it |
| 01:02.06 | Lunessa | WobWork: In King's books the agency in Firestarter is a recurring group. |
| 01:02.14 | ScytheBlade1 | Cide: switch to fedora, tada, auto detected and functional out of the box! |
| 01:02.24 | Dagmar | cide: After the madness from yesterday it should be a doddle |
| 01:02.30 | Cide | Dagmar: lol |
| 01:02.35 | Cide | I've tried a bunch of xorg setups, no luck yet |
| 01:02.49 | Cide | (not windows-user style mind you, I typed them out myself) |
| 01:02.55 | Cide | ScytheBlade1: hmm really? |
| 01:03.10 | ScytheBlade1 | Cide: yup. did for me with dual DVI monitors on an NV card run by nouveau of all things. |
| 01:03.17 | Cide | would it also come with better drivers for my hd5970 card? :P |
| 01:03.25 | ScytheBlade1 | I do not have any form of an xorg.conf, and I have a proper dual-screen setup |
| 01:03.32 | ScytheBlade1 | Probably, the OSS radeon driver is looking nice |
| 01:03.34 | ScytheBlade1 | No 3D however |
| 01:03.44 | Cide | I'm not looking to play games |
| 01:03.44 | WobWork | I think I xorg hacked my setup last I used it |
| 01:03.49 | Cide | that's what I have windows for |
| 01:03.53 | WobWork | for dual monitors |
| 01:03.54 | ScytheBlade1 | If you have to install the blob ATi or NV driver, you tend to have to hack up an xorg.conf |
| 01:03.59 | ScytheBlade1 | if you use the OSS ones, from my experience, you don't |
| 01:04.30 | Dagmar | ScytheBlade1: I'd like to see you get his ATI card working properly |
| 01:04.39 | Lopeppeppy | this is the miniseries, not the movie with Jack Nicholson, so it has much more creepy |
| 01:04.43 | Arrowmaster | all my xorg.conf needs is the part saying what driver to use for the card, the rest is automatic |
| 01:04.50 | Dagmar | The only thing you have to do with nVidia is change "nv" to "nvidia" and their install package will do that for you |
| 01:04.52 | Dagmar | ATI, not so simple |
| 01:04.59 | Cide | I have been completely unable to find any good drivers for this card |
| 01:05.17 | Cide | so how does fedora stack up vs debian for newbie users? |
| 01:05.35 | ScytheBlade1 | it doesn't try to hide root from you |
| 01:05.35 | Arrowmaster | try switching to debian testing |
| 01:05.40 | ScytheBlade1 | aside from that, it's pretty okay imo |
| 01:05.54 | Lopeppeppy | cuddles up to Lunessa and hides! |
| 01:06.06 | Cide | Arrowmaster: big changes? |
| 01:06.13 | Arrowmaster | Cide: newer stuff |
| 01:06.14 | Cide | I read a bunch of people saying they had problems upgrading |
| 01:06.31 | Cide | so I don't feel like doing a reinstall for nothing |
| 01:06.39 | Arrowmaster | you shouldnt have to reinstall |
| 01:08.01 | *** join/#wowuidev myrkraverk (~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk) |
| 01:08.09 | Arrowmaster | i dont know about the ati drivers but for the nvidia ones, only unstable is kept uptodate so i run testing and have it pull in only a few select packages from unstable |
| 01:08.36 | Cide | hmm so I should change /etc/apt/sources.list to pull from squeeze or from testing? |
| 01:08.46 | Arrowmaster | what does it say right now? |
| 01:08.49 | Cide | lenny |
| 01:08.54 | Arrowmaster | squeeze then |
| 01:09.17 | Cide | and I should pull from unstable as well? |
| 01:09.23 | Cide | I realize this is subjective :P |
| 01:09.24 | Arrowmaster | i warn you that this could cause some major changes |
| 01:09.30 | Cide | like what? |
| 01:09.49 | Arrowmaster | like gnome 2.30 is working its way into squeeze right now |
| 01:10.04 | Arrowmaster | i dont know what version lenny has |
| 01:10.17 | Cide | well, going to try |
| 01:10.58 | Dagmar | Right now his *@#$@ doesn't work, so there's a lot of "major changes" that have only one direction to go in |
| 01:11.05 | Cide | ^ |
| 01:11.18 | Lopeppeppy | DOWN!!! |
| 01:11.23 | Dagmar | Nah |
| 01:11.24 | Cide | although a lot of the screen tearing went away when I switched to the "ati" drivers |
| 01:11.30 | Cide | but still not great |
| 01:11.52 | WobWork | aha! |
| 01:11.53 | WobWork | http://funkyimg.com/u2/362/007/comic_GIF.gif |
| 01:12.15 | Arrowmaster | Cide: i think you might want the fglrx driver which is the closed source one |
| 01:12.34 | Cide | I did |
| 01:12.37 | Cide | that's when the trouble started |
| 01:12.40 | Arrowmaster | ok |
| 01:13.31 | Cide | I'm not sure it supports my video card |
| 01:13.51 | Cide | can't find any information on the net that says it supports it anyway |
| 01:14.02 | Arrowmaster | what card do you have? |
| 01:14.06 | Cide | hd5970 |
| 01:14.06 | ScytheBlade1 | fedora, fwiw, tends to ship borderline bleeding edge video drivers with every release |
| 01:14.12 | ScytheBlade1 | and they all work pretty much fantastically |
| 01:14.26 | Cide | going to try fedora if debian still doesn't like me after updating to squeeze |
| 01:14.55 | ScytheBlade1 | I'll warn you that they have a major release coming up in 9 days, but I'd still recommend at least giving the livecd a try |
| 01:15.01 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 01:15.10 | Cide | go go sweet timing by me |
| 01:15.11 | ScytheBlade1 | I'd bet that it works out of the box, and if it doesn't, an xrandr --auto would make it all work pretty |
| 01:15.35 | Arrowmaster | Cide: http://wiki.debian.org/ATIProprietary has info on what you need to do to get it working |
| 01:16.51 | Cide | going to check the pdf once this update goes through |
| 01:17.00 | Cide | guess I can't view pdf's right now |
| 01:17.15 | Arrowmaster | looks like the lenny fglrx drivers are from catalyst 8 era |
| 01:17.31 | Cide | can you check the squeeze supported devices pdf? |
| 01:17.37 | Cide | and see if it supports hd5xxx |
| 01:18.00 | Cide | or I'll just check it in a bit |
| 01:18.15 | Cide | ScytheBlade1: got a strange error trying xrandr here before |
| 01:18.19 | Cide | but will try it again |
| 01:18.21 | Arrowmaster | Cide: it is |
| 01:18.26 | Cide | awesome |
| 01:18.35 | ScytheBlade1 | Cide: doesn't surprise me with that driver.. :/ |
| 01:18.37 | Cide | maybe this will turn out useful then |
| 01:18.42 | Cide | ScytheBlade1: lol |
| 01:18.43 | Arrowmaster | the 3870 x2 is the only one i see specifically mentioned as not supported |
| 01:19.11 | Arrowmaster | the closed source drivers tend to fuck with xrandr pretty good |
| 01:19.20 | Cide | it's pretty cool to update your OS through command line |
| 01:19.23 | Arrowmaster | atleast i know the nvidia ones do |
| 01:19.23 | ScytheBlade1 | mostly because they don't support it _at all_ |
| 01:19.25 | Cide | with like 5 commands |
| 01:19.34 | ScytheBlade1 | the nouveau driver supports it great though |
| 01:19.55 | Cide | well, aticonfig (supplied by the fglrx driver) configures xorg.conf also |
| 01:20.01 | Arrowmaster | the closed source nvidia drivers fuck with xrandr because of how twinview works |
| 01:20.04 | Cide | it worked when I had it installed |
| 01:20.16 | Cide | (for one boot; the next one everything went to shit) |
| 01:20.36 | Arrowmaster | i would still use the minimal example that one page has |
| 01:20.58 | Cide | yeah, we'll see |
| 01:21.04 | Cide | thanks for the help btw |
| 01:21.18 | Arrowmaster | oh now that you are using squeeze you might want to install apt-listbugs |
| 01:21.36 | Cide | what's it do? |
| 01:21.55 | Arrowmaster | checks for any open bugs before updating packages |
| 01:22.02 | Cide | ah |
| 01:23.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Sargeras (~Sargeras@cpe-72-129-100-195.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 01:32.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (~chatzilla@99-92-174-69.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net) |
| 01:35.04 | Cide | here goes |
| 01:35.25 | Lopeppeppy | *fingers crossed!!* |
| 01:37.23 | myrkraverk | my pet target addon shows the target when I'm in a vehicle. |
| 01:37.30 | myrkraverk | I'm using RegisterUnitWatch(self); to display it |
| 01:37.51 | myrkraverk | Is there an event or something I can use to turn it off when in a vehicle? |
| 01:39.07 | Lunessa | There's a secure macro condition for it... I think it's vehicleui |
| 01:40.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~cide@c213-100-51-33.swipnet.se) |
| 01:40.07 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 01:40.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide- (~cide@c213-100-51-33.swipnet.se) |
| 01:40.08 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
| 01:40.21 | Cide- | I guess that didn't go as awesome as I had hoped |
| 01:41.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 01:41.10 | Cide- | sysv-rc complained that gdm was removed but not purged |
| 01:41.20 | Cide- | so I purged it... and I guess it deleted xserver also |
| 01:41.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (~xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 01:41.34 | Dagmar | Who told you to do that? |
| 01:41.36 | alestane | You'd need to either UnregisterUnitWatch while in a vehicle, or change your frame's unit while in a vehicle, myrkraverk. |
| 01:41.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (amarande@68-191-37-155.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 01:42.07 | myrkraverk | alestane, thank you. |
| 01:42.19 | myrkraverk | Now the only question is: How do I know I'm in a vehicle? |
| 01:42.31 | Cide- | Dagmar: sysv-rc complained, saying "gdm removed but not purged" |
| 01:42.41 | Cide- | so I guess I was like "oh ok, I guess I'll purge it then since it's already removed" |
| 01:42.51 | alestane | Either way, you're probably looking at combining your unit frame with a SecureHandlerStateTemplate and RegisterStateDriver. |
| 01:43.24 | myrkraverk | alestane, yes, I just started reading about that. |
| 01:43.36 | Dagmar | Cide-: This isn't Windows. Linux is very verbose about things Windows would never bother to mention.; |
| 01:43.42 | Dagmar | That wasn't actually an error message. |
| 01:43.46 | Cide- | I see |
| 01:44.21 | Cide- | I tried installing it again (aptitude install xserver-xorg), and startx worked but just turned up a black screen |
| 01:44.31 | Cide- | so do I need to get gdm as well or am I screwed? |
| 01:44.50 | Cide- | or some other alternative c |
| 01:44.53 | Amarande | Dagmar: on the other hand, there are things where Windows wins in the verbosity :S |
| 01:44.59 | Amarande | mainly, I/O errors |
| 01:45.22 | Amarande | Windows tends to be pretty specific about I/O errors. In Linux or BSD, you're lucky if you get anything more than "Error 5 (I/O error)" |
| 01:46.22 | WobWork | GURU MEDITATION ERROR |
| 01:47.14 | Lopeppeppy | You can't get there, from here. |
| 01:48.28 | alestane | The dreaded i/o error -36 in the old Mac OS. |
| 01:48.59 | Amarande | But yeah, non-Windows OS have this tendency to be very generic about I/O errors. |
| 01:49.19 | Amarande | To the point where you really do need guru meditation ... of the sort that actually works mystically, mind you, to figure it out. |
| 01:49.32 | Amarande | Especially when it's saying it can't access a disc due to an I/O error |
| 01:49.50 | Amarande | like, DERP |
| 01:50.18 | Amarande | let's see, what could it be ... if it's not 'Permission Denied' or 'Device or Resource Busy' and it's not a network device, of COURSE IT'S AN I/O ERROR |
| 01:50.30 | Amarande | I need to know WHAT KIND OF I/O ERROR SO I CAN FIGURE OUT WTF IS WRONG, dammit. |
| 01:51.00 | myrkraverk | is there any better list (more reliable) of macro conditionals than wowwiki |
| 01:51.01 | myrkraverk | ? |
| 01:51.15 | Lopeppeppy | wowprogramming.com? |
| 01:51.53 | Lopeppeppy | although what do you mean by "reliable", what are you looking for that you're not finding? |
| 01:52.11 | myrkraverk | <Lunessa> There's a secure macro condition for it... I think it's vehicleui |
| 01:53.07 | Lopeppeppy | http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api_categories -- look at the category for vehicle functions. |
| 01:54.25 | myrkraverk | ok |
| 01:56.02 | Lopeppeppy | http://www.wowwiki.com/Category:World_of_Warcraft_API on wowwiki, for paging through |
| 01:56.47 | Amarande | speaking of macros |
| 01:57.00 | Amarande | on a frost DK, what ability is best to link DPS trinkets to in a macro? |
| 01:58.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Gintaro (~Gintaro@cc1040670-a.gorre1.fr.home.nl) |
| 01:58.45 | Amarande | hmm |
| 01:58.59 | Amarande | also, is it noobish on a DK to get the battered hilt and then *not* follow all the way through to Shadowmourne? |
| 01:59.20 | Amarande | or would that be the perfectly expected thing to do as Frost, as Shadowmourne is useless to a DW based spec |
| 01:59.36 | Dagmar | That depends on how many people you want pissed at you |
| 01:59.46 | Amarande | (just like if your tanking Paladin gets it, you don't respec Ret just to get SM, do you?) |
| 02:01.19 | Dagmar | Of course, it would probably be worse if I got a battered hilt and then turned it into Shadowmourne |
| 02:01.21 | Dagmar | ...on my hunter. |
| 02:01.27 | Amarande | and am I gathering it right from wowhead that the hilt is basically a 1/1,000 drop from anything in any ICC instance, 5 or raid, regular or heroic? |
| 02:01.36 | Dagmar | Yeah |
| 02:01.42 | Amarande | Dagmar: I don't think you're even allowed to start the shadowmourne quest on a hunter |
| 02:01.43 | Dagmar | It's a reasonably uncommon drop now |
| 02:01.52 | Dagmar | When it first opened up people were farming them 5-10 a night |
| 02:02.24 | Amarande | you could make it the 2H Quel'Delar which seems pretty decent for a hunter, though |
| 02:02.40 | Dagmar | Nah, better to have the LK's sword |
| 02:02.53 | Dagmar | Come winter, QD will just be vendor fodder |
| 02:03.14 | Dagmar | I'm sure I'll enjoy it as much as my "wiggly stick" from Kara |
| 02:03.28 | Dagmar | Thanks to Outfitter, I was able to have it equipped all the time when I wasn't in an instance. |
| 02:03.31 | Dagmar | Druids *love* that |
| 02:03.34 | Lopeppeppy | ... wiggly stick |
| 02:03.40 | Dagmar | ...or was it Shamen... |
| 02:03.53 | Dagmar | The epic 2h staff from Karazhan that has the waving tentacles on it |
| 02:04.00 | Amarande | though unfortunately, you only have a 1/5,000 chance of getting QD from a given mob now :( |
| 02:04.10 | Amarande | because, even if you're lucky enough to be running with 4 people who already got the hilt and did their quest |
| 02:04.17 | Amarande | THEY WILL STILL BE DOUCHEY ENOUGH TO ROLL NEED ON IT FOR THE 8000 G. |
| 02:06.08 | Amarande | Because people are indeed d-bags who roll need on stuff simply to put it on the AH. |
| 02:06.27 | *** join/#wowuidev myrkraverk (~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk) |
| 02:06.31 | Amarande | Worse: Nine times out of ten, even if you *have* 8000 G on you, you won't have a chance to get your QD off that drop if you don't make the 20% chance of winning the roll everyone will need on |
| 02:06.48 | Amarande | because in most groups, it will be going to someone on a different server who will not be allowed to sell it to you |
| 02:07.43 | Amarande | There should be some sort of Blizzard-implemented DKP system so people can accumulate server currency points and use them for bonuses on loot rolls ... |
| 02:07.51 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: the tentacle rape stick? |
| 02:08.28 | Amarande | That way, if you say went 20 times in a row through ICC5 and kept seeing hilts drop that you miss the roll on, eventually you could just pay server DKP for an automatic 100 Need roll to have it for yourself |
| 02:08.56 | Amarande | (of course, I'm sure the money whores would abuse this one by saving all their points for hilts to sell on AH :S) |
| 02:09.09 | Nechckn | Neighborhood kitty says hello, Lopeppeppy. And thanks you for providing some reassurance that I am not totally crazy for feeding him/her. |
| 02:09.11 | Amarande | you know, why didn't they just make it BoP? :) |
| 02:09.41 | Lopeppeppy | Yay for kitties! |
| 02:09.48 | Gintaro | I don't care about hilts anymore, ICC BoE's is where it's at |
| 02:09.52 | Gintaro | 15k for a ring! |
| 02:10.01 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: Sounds like it |
| 02:11.33 | Dagmar | Opinion: If there's people in your guild who you're calling money whores who will deliberately game DKP in order to make a profit by denying guildmates loot, fucking *kick them* already. They are not your friends. |
| 02:12.16 | Amarande | Dagmar: I was thinking more if Blizzard implemented such a system in order to help people who instance a lot actually have a chance at BoE epics |
| 02:12.44 | Amarande | instead of 80% of the time losing them on a douchey Need roll to someone who only wanted it to sell on AH (and then 9 times out of 10 not even having the option to buy it no matter how much gold they have, because it would be a different realm's AH) |
| 02:13.01 | Dagmar | We don't let people do need rolls for things they'll be selling on the AH. |
| 02:13.15 | Amarande | Like how I had to wait till around the FIFTIES for a mail chestpiece on my hunter |
| 02:13.28 | Amarande | because the only decent one I had a chance at before that was the epic Icemail Jerkin that dropped when I was in ZF |
| 02:13.39 | Amarande | and the other guys also rolled need on it and won, just to sell it on AH |
| 02:13.53 | Dagmar | Damn |
| 02:14.03 | Nechckn | Amarande You are just not sleeping with the right GM, that is all. |
| 02:14.20 | Dagmar | I've punted people from pugs and raids both for that |
| 02:14.50 | Dagmar | Flat out gave 'em 60 seconds to equip the item or poof they're out |
| 02:14.50 | Amarande | Dagmar: I would have initiated a votekick, but felt it would be more likely to get *me* kicked |
| 02:15.05 | Amarande | I would have been in the right, but 3 of the 5 party members, including the guy who won, were from the same server |
| 02:15.06 | Nechckn | I would provide location and contact info, but the one I have is MINE!! |
| 02:15.07 | Gintaro | At least it's not as bad as a huntard taking a ilevel 277 dagger |
| 02:15.28 | Amarande | Good chance they were friends queuing together, and three douchebags in one group is enough to get one of the other two booted for even a legitimate claim of ninja |
| 02:15.35 | Dagmar | Gintaro: If he won it on a greed roll, sucks to be you |
| 02:15.41 | Nechckn | Well, there is a big difference between huntards and those who actually have a brain. |
| 02:15.46 | Amarande | Gintaro: what were the stats? |
| 02:15.49 | Dagmar | Amarane: I'd just drop then |
| 02:15.59 | Dagmar | I honestly will *not* play with douchebags even for a moment. |
| 02:16.00 | Amarande | Hunters are an AGI based physical DPS class, a lot of daggers have good hunter stats |
| 02:16.00 | Gintaro | I think it was either lungbreaker or rib spreader |
| 02:16.11 | Amarande | even if a rogue would like them more |
| 02:16.15 | Gintaro | huntards do not get to roll on a dagger |
| 02:16.26 | Dagmar | I have like 200 people in my ignore list, and yes I've turned them down when I was running some pug gig |
| 02:16.43 | Amarande | Yeah, it's usually randoms where you get the AH douchebags |
| 02:16.57 | Dagmar | "Oh, if Luvtehkawk doesn't come you won't bring your healer? No problem. BYE." |
| 02:16.58 | Nechckn | I *usually* have had good PUG luck, thank goodness. I know others who simply do not do it, due to silly crap, though. |
| 02:16.58 | Amarande | Unfortunately, we're not very well distributed classwise on our 80s in the guild |
| 02:17.12 | Nechckn | That 3 buddies grouping seems to be a lot more common now. |
| 02:17.22 | Amarande | Only a couple of healers (although they are nicely geared), and our tanks aren't geared |
| 02:17.33 | Nechckn | And, heck, even booting you for no reason right before the loot distro, too. |
| 02:17.34 | Gintaro | gearing a tank is easy |
| 02:17.49 | Gintaro | Nechckn: click faster |
| 02:17.55 | Dagmar | Nechckn: Yeah I've gotten in the habit of asking a few questions now when I see three people on from the same server |
| 02:18.19 | Nechckn | Or just before the "big boss" dies, too. |
| 02:18.24 | Dagmar | *Eventually* a GM will get to them if they abuse the kick system |
| 02:18.33 | Nechckn | It's not clicking faster when the loot is not even out. =) |
| 02:18.36 | Amarande | Or is gold a LOT more precious in LK than I tend to give it credit for being, giving valuable AH items a rather high importance? |
| 02:18.44 | Gintaro | Nechckn: keep in combat |
| 02:18.48 | Nechckn | But, I have not had bad luck, so I do not complain in hopes of avoiding such crap. |
| 02:19.00 | Dagmar | Amarande: No, people are just becoming bigger and bigger assholes because so few people are willing to take a stand against it |
| 02:19.06 | Amarande | I suppose I can imagine there are people who just wouldn't play anymore if they were stuck with fly-heavy zones like Icecrown with only a 150 mount |
| 02:19.43 | Dagmar | Only one of my toons has an epic flyer |
| 02:19.47 | Amarande | Dagmar: how important a creature comfort would you say that a 280% flyer is now with zones like Icecrown around and the upcoming Cata Azeroth flying? |
| 02:19.57 | Dagmar | If they can't stand the normal flying speed, they should proably not be playing WoW anymore anyway |
| 02:20.12 | Dagmar | Amarande: That depends on how much of an impatient bitch someone is |
| 02:20.15 | Amarande | It's not so bad in Outland or even Stormpeaks, but Icecrown you're basically flying -everywhere- |
| 02:20.32 | Dagmar | Yeah, and if I have to go a great distance I'll just hop a gryphon |
| 02:20.44 | Amarande | Hell, in Outland pretty much the only reason there even were fly only areas was "we want to put a 70 section in this zone so we'll require flying, since (at the time) flying requires 70" |
| 02:21.01 | Amarande | other than that, it was just a perk pretty much |
| 02:21.02 | Arrowmaster | haha wtf theres a Touhou joke scene in Fate/stay-night |
| 02:21.05 | Dagmar | On a gryphon I can wander off and use the bathroom without coming back to see that I've flown WAY out in the ocean to die with no hope of corpse retrieval |
| 02:21.16 | Gintaro | Dagmar: I hate the fact that the 1st flying mount is slower then the ground mound |
| 02:21.18 | Gintaro | mount even |
| 02:21.27 | Amarande | Dagmar: heh. the only time I died out in the ocean in recent memory was due to a *weird* bug with hearthstone |
| 02:21.33 | Amarande | Gintaro: Not anymore |
| 02:21.38 | Amarande | It used to be, but now it's 150% for standard flyer |
| 02:21.38 | Gintaro | ?? |
| 02:21.42 | Gintaro | omg |
| 02:21.47 | Dagmar | sooprise |
| 02:21.50 | Gintaro | I must have missed that announcement! |
| 02:22.02 | Arrowmaster | but ground is 200% |
| 02:22.02 | Amarande | OTOH, all the nice looking flyers are epic, unless you're a DK, tailor, or engineer :( |
| 02:22.02 | Gintaro | Then there |
| 02:22.09 | Trela | Yeah, that original flying speed was retarded. Flies at 60% speed, but runs at 100%! |
| 02:22.11 | Gintaro | then there's no reason for epic anymore |
| 02:22.19 | Amarande | Epic is still 280/310 |
| 02:22.24 | Gintaro | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:22.36 | Dagmar | Is the one from CoS 280 or 310? |
| 02:22.42 | Arrowmaster | oh im thinking the actual speed not the tooltip speed like you guys |
| 02:22.43 | Gintaro | 280 |
| 02:23.19 | Amarande | Yeah, the only drop 310's I'm aware of are the phoenix from TK and the drake from Ony |
| 02:23.40 | Dagmar | I thought there were more than that |
| 02:23.45 | Dagmar | Ah well |
| 02:23.46 | Amarande | You know, I wonder if that was the REAL reason they disabled all the mount speed boosts after 70 |
| 02:23.49 | *** part/#wowuidev Amarande (amarande@68-191-37-155.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 02:23.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (amarande@68-191-37-155.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 02:23.56 | Amarande | wtf. |
| 02:23.57 | Amarande | stupid keys. |
| 02:24.01 | Amarande | fuck you CTRL key. |
| 02:24.02 | Amarande | anyway |
| 02:24.08 | cybermind | well their overall goal with 3.0 was to remove a lot of shit in your bags |
| 02:24.14 | cybermind | instead of drastiaclly increasing bag size |
| 02:24.15 | Amarande | cybermind: was it really :) |
| 02:24.18 | Gintaro | It's still there |
| 02:24.22 | Amarande | or did they want to disable the mount speed boosts |
| 02:24.24 | cybermind | as far as that sort of stuff |
| 02:24.26 | cybermind | thats why theres glyphs that remove reagents |
| 02:24.37 | cybermind | they remvoed the shitty spices for cooking, the shit for campfire |
| 02:24.38 | Dagmar | Amarande: It probably had more to do with how useless a 5% speed boost is, coupled with a buncha different flying speeds make it easier for kiddies to speedhack |
| 02:24.39 | Amarande | so that they could make 310's a much bigger deal, rather than kinda meh when you consider you could get 308 with a 280 and a riding crop? |
| 02:25.04 | Amarande | since it seems a *lot* of Achievements give you mounts, a *lot* of which are 310 |
| 02:25.20 | cybermind | a 280 with a riding crop is actually equivalent of 318 |
| 02:25.21 | Amarande | and a lot of them from what I've seen are distinctly fugly and only of worth because they're 310, too :) |
| 02:25.24 | Gintaro | btw, want frostbrood mount |
| 02:25.24 | Arrowmaster | they remove those mounts though before the majority of people can get them |
| 02:25.38 | cybermind | the 10% is on the total speed of 380% of normal speed |
| 02:26.02 | Amarande | so basically the idea is they wanted to use it as a smokescreen for the real fact that they wanted speeds beyond 280 to basically be reserved for PvP and raiding greats? |
| 02:26.10 | cybermind | but that doesnt make any sense because a riding crop on a 310 would be even faster and stil retain the awe of a faster mount |
| 02:26.29 | Dagmar | 5% speed boost is barely noticeable |
| 02:26.42 | Nechckn | At that point, yeah. |
| 02:26.55 | Dagmar | You'll notice if you're traveling *with* people... sometimes |
| 02:27.05 | Nechckn | the boot enchant when starting was like a must have for those w/o speed enhancement abilities. |
| 02:27.21 | Nechckn | But with mounts like granted when you start, not so much... =) |
| 02:27.21 | Gintaro | It still is |
| 02:27.35 | Amarande | seems like they want to go back to requiring people to be greats to get good stuff |
| 02:27.46 | cybermind | uh they have always sort of thought that way |
| 02:27.59 | Nechckn | Gintaro I agree, to a point, but not as much as before. |
| 02:28.01 | Amarande | although 310's, at least, seem to be more accessible now. |
| 02:28.02 | cybermind | makes sense |
| 02:28.14 | cybermind | your rage against the riding crop makes no sense, however |
| 02:28.14 | Gintaro | Amarande: oh, not enough free epics for you? |
| 02:28.18 | Dagmar | You just have to be willing to sit up and beg for them |
| 02:28.22 | cybermind | they specifically stated they wanted to remove shit from your bags |
| 02:28.22 | Amarande | It used to be that you HAD to either be in a T5+ guild and very lucky, or an ARENA CHAMPION class PvP'er to get 310 |
| 02:28.34 | cybermind | because increasing bag size by a lot would be a huge amoutn of data on the server |
| 02:28.51 | Nechckn | They are likely sick of the welfare crying, so now you need to play more to get the shiny stuff. |
| 02:28.56 | Gintaro | Allow me to condense old sets then |
| 02:29.06 | Gintaro | My bank is full with old tiers |
| 02:29.14 | Amarande | but otoh, there's some places where they've made it way worse which just *sucks* |
| 02:29.16 | Gintaro | And I'm a rogue |
| 02:29.16 | Amarande | PvP, mainly |
| 02:29.20 | Dagmar | Jesus. Take some screenshots and throw them the hell out, man. |
| 02:29.26 | Gintaro | NO Wai! |
| 02:29.28 | cybermind | they got rid of all the engineering tools and condensed into 1... |
| 02:29.30 | Nechckn | lol |
| 02:29.34 | Gintaro | Bloodfang is too awesome for screenshots |
| 02:29.37 | Amarande | All the stupid high rating requirements on high end PvP gear |
| 02:29.40 | cybermind | they made the other tools that combine multiple tools |
| 02:29.44 | cybermind | they got rid of a lot of reagents |
| 02:29.46 | Amarande | which by the end of the season you probably need to *get* the rating in the first place |
| 02:30.00 | cybermind | they made a separate mounts and pets storage section |
| 02:30.06 | Arrowmaster | if my armory page still worked youd see my lvl 80 wearing full T1 |
| 02:30.06 | WobWork | wtb reagent requirement removal |
| 02:30.08 | cybermind | (which can be a simple bitmask to save space) |
| 02:30.11 | Amarande | after all, to get high rating, you need to beat high rated players, as an experienced chess player I know full well how Elo works |
| 02:30.20 | Nechckn | I can see keeping some thing "just because" but for everything else, that is why you have your bank alts with guildbanks. |
| 02:30.30 | cybermind | if they really cared about getting rid of the riding crop because it gave players a speed boost |
| 02:30.40 | Amarande | there has to be some point in a season where you can't get high rating anymore in a practical sense |
| 02:30.40 | Dagmar | 5%. |
| 02:30.41 | cybermind | they would get rid of all the talents and BASELINE PALADIN AURA that do it already |
| 02:30.44 | Dagmar | Practically a waste of time |
| 02:30.46 | *** join/#wowuidev myrkraverk (~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk) |
| 02:30.49 | Gintaro | http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Scarshield+Legion&n=Ginji Hahaa! |
| 02:30.58 | Amarande | because at that point everyone above X rating has the top tier gear and you don't, and that difference means you're their whipping boy every time you're matched with them. |
| 02:31.03 | Dagmar | Amarande: Yeah towards the latter end of it |
| 02:31.06 | Arrowmaster | it was the constant trinket swaping they wanted to get rid of |
| 02:31.06 | cybermind | (and lets not forget that the paladin aura is twice the riding crop) |
| 02:31.10 | cybermind | dagmar: the riding crop was 10% |
| 02:31.19 | WobWork | On a Pale Horse too |
| 02:31.21 | Dagmar | ...because there is simply not enough time to prove authoritatively that you can kick everyone else's ass. |
| 02:31.35 | cybermind | yeah wobwork but i was more on the fact that any paladin at level 62 can go 20% faster |
| 02:31.38 | cybermind | AND make anyone in his group |
| 02:31.46 | cybermind | the 10% trinket obviously meant a lot to blizzard |
| 02:31.51 | Dagmar | cybermind: Still, it's practically a waste of time considering how little of your time is spent flying around now |
| 02:31.51 | cybermind | and they HAD to get rid of it because it was too OP |
| 02:32.04 | Amarande | Dagmar: not to mention that the highest rated players don't even get to have FUN |
| 02:32.14 | Dagmar | can't tailors summon people now by making little poppets that look like you and dropping them in a magic glass of water? |
| 02:32.18 | Amarande | cybermind: unless they wanted to make the paladin ability more significant |
| 02:32.18 | Dagmar | No wait, that'll probably come in Cata |
| 02:32.32 | cybermind | ... |
| 02:32.34 | Amarande | the highest rated players get queues that are like queuing as DPS for dungeons |
| 02:32.36 | cybermind | it was always more significant |
| 02:32.47 | Dagmar | Amarande: So they have to wait ten minutes? |
| 02:32.49 | cybermind | its 20% and available to any spec paladin and his group |
| 02:32.49 | Dagmar | Poor things |
| 02:32.49 | Amarande | and if they do anything, anything at all to try to give themselves a more fun time with lesser queues |
| 02:32.54 | Amarande | Dagmar: okay, more than that |
| 02:33.00 | Amarande | they get pretty bad queues if you're the top rated player |
| 02:33.20 | Amarande | because often #2 in the queue gets matched with #3 instead of you, and #4 isn't close enough at all to you to get matched with you |
| 02:33.25 | Amarande | and if you do anything to try to alleviate this |
| 02:33.31 | cybermind | all i know is you're raging hard for no real reason |
| 02:33.35 | Amarande | it is "win trading" and you get 3-dayed and your gear yanked from you |
| 02:33.50 | cybermind | with a game that caters to different skill levels, this shit will happen |
| 02:33.51 | cybermind | no way to avoid it |
| 02:33.53 | cybermind | and it's fine |
| 02:33.58 | Dagmar | Ask for the ability to click off ranked matches like you can click off XP gain |
| 02:34.12 | Dagmar | Then you could queue and kick the crap out of other people in non-ranked matches all you like |
| 02:34.13 | cybermind | they have that |
| 02:34.14 | Amarande | why is Blizzard so against anything that even appears to be wintrading, though? |
| 02:34.23 | Amarande | In chess (where the whole rating system was invented), it's pretty much the standard at the top ratings |
| 02:34.23 | cybermind | its called skirmish |
| 02:34.37 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-68-38-51-80.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 02:34.45 | Amarande | or are there legal issues to be considered every time they make Arena policy, because of the tournaments that take RL entry fees and give cash prizes? |
| 02:34.59 | Dagmar | Amarande: There's six grandmasters I know. I've never seen them do anything like win trading in WoW |
| 02:35.07 | Gintaro | Only outside of Canada Amarande :) |
| 02:35.14 | Amarande | i.e., they have to do everything they can to make sure the game has as squeaky clean a rep as it can and doesn't at all seem to have an element of chance, or the tournaments might get seen by the Feds as a "gambling op"? |
| 02:35.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Cide@c213-100-51-33.swipnet.se) |
| 02:35.18 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 02:35.31 | Cide | hi |
| 02:35.39 | Amarande | Dagmar: well, it's somewhat more insidious in chess, but if you did the same thing in WoW, it would be win trading |
| 02:35.48 | Amarande | basically, top GMs tend to only enter events that are only for top GMs |
| 02:35.57 | Amarande | the topmost only bother with special invitational tournaments for the top few players only |
| 02:36.07 | Nechckn | There are different laws in different countries that govern what they can/cannot do. YOu can bet that even the slightest change to rules is a total pita. |
| 02:36.08 | Amarande | therefore, they rarely have to play anyone who might threaten their rating |
| 02:36.17 | cybermind | .... |
| 02:36.20 | Dagmar | lol |
| 02:36.28 | Arrowmaster | well thats because if they play anybody else, even if they utterly destroy them they will lose rating |
| 02:36.30 | Dagmar | Chess no RNG, man. |
| 02:36.39 | cybermind | the people that would threaten their rating are the ones that they do play against |
| 02:36.40 | cybermind | the other GMs |
| 02:36.44 | Amarande | Dagmar: when's the last time you saw Anand or Topalov play anything but a top end invitational though? |
| 02:36.55 | cybermind | they would lose a lot more rating against a lower ranked player, BUT they probably wont lose to them |
| 02:36.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Allara_ (~chatzilla@c-98-246-148-48.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 02:36.56 | Dagmar | You act like they don't play non-ranked games. |
| 02:37.04 | Nechckn | I mean, if you want to talk about win-trading, that is any "professional" sport. |
| 02:37.15 | Dagmar | I can assure you they all play non-ranked games whenever they please |
| 02:37.17 | cybermind | i fail to see how your chess analogy is relevant at all |
| 02:37.35 | Amarande | Nechckn: hmm, is the point then maybe that the Federal Government would *never* recognize Blizzard's "e-sport" claim |
| 02:37.45 | Nechckn | Well, to a point it is, cybermind but not to conclusion. |
| 02:37.46 | Amarande | and therefore, they have to do all they can to prevent the arena tournament from being seen as illegal gambling? |
| 02:38.02 | Amarande | as opposed to recognized sports, that get away with a lot more |
| 02:38.13 | Dagmar | not "being seen as", "being" |
| 02:38.16 | Nechckn | There are poker tournaments and such all the time. In all sorts of place... same with horse racing, et al. |
| 02:38.37 | Nechckn | So, it is all the marketing and who they try to attract. |
| 02:38.41 | Dagmar | The RNG being involved means they need to work extra hard at giving skill the opportunity to override chance |
| 02:39.06 | Nechckn | They want their folks to feel like atheletes.. which, they may be, may be not.. so that is how they market it. |
| 02:39.18 | Dagmar | You'll never see competitive Mario games be anything but gambling |
| 02:39.33 | Amarande | You know, why don't they just tax gambling instead of banning it? :) |
| 02:39.52 | Arrowmaster | they do tax it |
| 02:40.00 | Amarande | Or is part of the deal with the Native American tribes that lets them have casinos that the US government agreed not to let anyone else except in special areas like Vegas and AC have them? |
| 02:40.02 | Dagmar | Amarande: because people get broke, then desperate, then crazy, and then they start shooting/stabbing/mugging people |
| 02:40.23 | Nechckn | They do, where it is legal.. but it most often has a more significant socio-economical impact on the lower classes who "hope to hit it big" so most places severely limit it. |
| 02:40.35 | Amarande | Eh |
| 02:40.41 | Amarande | we care too much about the lower classes these days :) |
| 02:40.44 | WobWork | they usually do hit it big |
| 02:40.49 | WobWork | where 'it' is 'debt' |
| 02:40.56 | Dagmar | Yeah |
| 02:40.56 | Nechckn | exactly, WobWork |
| 02:41.04 | Amarande | on the other hand, debt you can't pay causes bank failures |
| 02:41.07 | Amarande | and bank failures make rich people sad |
| 02:41.15 | Amarande | and sad rich people make for a sad government that likes to ban stuff |
| 02:41.19 | Nechckn | Look at "Lotteries" they are all targeted to the lowest common denom, unfortunately. |
| 02:41.19 | Dagmar | Pawn Shops, lottery ticket sellers, and liquor stores mark economic downturn in a neighborhood in part because they *cause* it |
| 02:41.35 | Dagmar | Oh as well as paycheck advance and car title loan shops |
| 02:41.46 | Dagmar | People _regularly_ get fucked over for a buck |
| 02:41.54 | Nechckn | Quite. |
| 02:41.55 | Dagmar | Poor people can't afford it |
| 02:42.01 | WobWork | the fucking? |
| 02:42.11 | Amarande | Dagmar: you mean exactly like the virtual incident in which this conversation began, people needing on battered hilts to sell them on AH when someone else could use it for their QD? :) |
| 02:42.22 | Nechckn | But, when you are trying to feed you kid who has not eaten in days, you will do just about anything. |
| 02:42.29 | Arrowmaster | im not sure since i was never old enough to enter them but i thought some of the archery tournaments i used to goto had olympic rounds (our term for 1v1 elimination bracket events) with a cash entrance fee and a cash prize for the winner |
| 02:42.30 | Dagmar | Amarande: Yeah, but at least there there's still plenty of weapons |
| 02:42.32 | Amarande | "Sorry I need the 8,000g more than you need a really big gear upgrade ..." |
| 02:42.50 | WobWork | well... it's certainly debatable |
| 02:43.00 | Dagmar | Amarande: Now imagine there was no weapon repair mechanic, and you just had to keep getting new weapons to stay raid viable |
| 02:43.14 | Arrowmaster | there are games like that |
| 02:43.16 | Arrowmaster | they suck |
| 02:43.17 | Nechckn | Arrowmaster yeah.. I am sure that is how they pass the things off. |
| 02:43.24 | WobWork | hehe lotro |
| 02:43.26 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: Cuz they're too muhc like real life |
| 02:43.39 | WobWork | didn't that have a 'if it's broke, it's broke' thing? |
| 02:43.42 | Nechckn | The biggest thing is that they have to pay out what was put in, with no "expenses". |
| 02:43.50 | Dagmar | In real life, you screw up with a paycheck advance place, and basically, they take your next two or three paychecks extra |
| 02:43.53 | Amarande | Dagmar: or if it was like an online Arcanum |
| 02:44.00 | Cide | hmm, going to try and install the new fglrx drivers |
| 02:44.02 | Dagmar | That's an economic "finisher" for most people |
| 02:44.14 | Amarande | I seem to remember in Arcanum, max dura went down every time you repaired something |
| 02:44.16 | WobWork | Dagmar: of course it is |
| 02:44.28 | Amarande | and if it got broken before you repaired it, it lost a LOT MORE max dura |
| 02:44.32 | Nechckn | Dagmar or your car, or your <anything> - it is just above like loansharks, if not worse. |
| 02:44.35 | WobWork | if you needed an advance, you wouldn't be in the situation where you have enough funds to last you a couple of paychecks |
| 02:44.41 | Dagmar | During the floods one of those places got destroyed |
| 02:44.46 | Arrowmaster | Nechckn: probably, although these tournaments youve already paid to enter the fita round that you have to participate in before the olympic round |
| 02:44.53 | Dagmar | I used shoe white to paint "YAY!" on their door |
| 02:44.55 | Amarande | I'm not sure how pawnshops make for a bad economy, though, or liquor stores |
| 02:45.11 | Amarande | a lot of stuff people pawn is old shit they don't really care about that happens to be worth a buck |
| 02:45.13 | Nechckn | Dagmar You anarchist, you! |
| 02:45.25 | Dagmar | Amarande: Pawn shops and liquor stores are almost border cases, but they make it really easy to be a petty thief or budding alcoholic |
| 02:45.25 | Amarande | and liquor is heavily taxed, thus a really good source of income for state governments |
| 02:45.26 | WobWork | Nechckn: he used white |
| 02:45.32 | WobWork | that must mean he's good |
| 02:45.45 | WobWork | hehe, they upped the tax on ciggies here |
| 02:45.46 | Dagmar | No, it means I wanted it to be visible to passing cars |
| 02:45.50 | Nechckn | True, WobWork. A lawful neutral then, right? |
| 02:45.50 | WobWork | I'm thankful I don't smoke |
| 02:45.52 | Amarande | I also wouldn't be surprised if a lot of pawn defaults are people who decide they really don't want what they pawned anymore anyway so they don't bother to get it back |
| 02:46.09 | Dagmar | A lot of pawn defaults are that way |
| 02:46.25 | Dagmar | Pawn shops do pay you *some* money |
| 02:46.35 | Nechckn | I would love to see some hard statistics from them to know for sure. |
| 02:46.37 | Dagmar | "more than a fence" being the important thing |
| 02:47.07 | Nechckn | But, you know they make the most on paying 10 for a 80 item. Or whatever |
| 02:47.20 | Dagmar | I've never seen one that piad that low |
| 02:47.27 | Nechckn | Well, you get the idea. |
| 02:47.31 | Amarande | probably depends on your negotiation skills |
| 02:47.32 | Dagmar | Generally you can expect they'll give someone at least half of what it's worth |
| 02:47.39 | Amarande | at least on that one show I've watched on TV about that one pawn shop |
| 02:47.56 | Amarande | there tends to be a lot of back and forth offers before something is sold, and oftentimes people do leave the shop without selling their item |
| 02:47.57 | Dagmar | Amarande: Pawn Stars or whatever? Yeah they run a pretty decent operation |
| 02:48.00 | Dagmar | Better than most I've seen |
| 02:48.16 | Amarande | and really, the 10 for an 80 thing or whatever |
| 02:48.19 | Dagmar | I used to scrounge pawn shops regularly for gear |
| 02:48.23 | Amarande | could be said for almost every place that sells secondhand stuff |
| 02:48.26 | Amarande | hell, look at Gamestop |
| 02:48.27 | Nechckn | and by the book, at least while the cameras are there... |
| 02:48.36 | Amarande | I'd imagine 99.9% of pawn shops give better deals on your stuff than Gamestop gives on your used games |
| 02:48.45 | WobWork | wow, $15 for a pack of 25 cigarettes |
| 02:48.46 | Dagmar | Around here the electronic invnetory systems literally tie directly into the police department |
| 02:49.01 | Amarande | Hell ... Gamestop gives so little that it's often not even worth the GAS to go trade in a game if you don't live right on top of one LOL |
| 02:49.03 | Kraps | http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2010/may/ss1002.jpg |
| 02:49.18 | WobWork | Kraps: yeah, my favourite |
| 02:49.47 | Nechckn | Ha.. very nice. |
| 02:50.08 | Kraps | i wonder if you can make the alliance look that gangsta |
| 02:50.29 | Nechckn | If they made a BE look gangsta, then anything is possible. |
| 02:50.49 | Dagmar | The setting makes him look "gangsta" |
| 02:50.51 | Amarande | You know ... they really should "release" old school crafted items, like anything before the current expansion. |
| 02:51.04 | Dagmar | Take the other guys out and he could easily be a closeted member of a boy band. |
| 02:51.25 | Nechckn | Well, they still are that, but at least they have some street in 'em. |
| 02:51.36 | Amarande | like ... make the BoP ones BoE so there's a real reason to buy the patterns still |
| 02:52.00 | Amarande | I saw a pattern for Swiftheal Mantle on sale on AH, then noted the item was BoP, so I, otherwise a very completionist crafter, passed. |
| 02:52.20 | Arrowmaster | hey i have that on my warlock |
| 02:52.22 | Arrowmaster | i think |
| 02:52.46 | Amarande | *sigh* +29 spellpower to weapon is on sale on AH and I can't afford it |
| 02:52.48 | Amarande | 4999 freaking G. |
| 02:52.52 | Amarande | And that one is actually USEFUL. |
| 02:53.01 | Arrowmaster | no its not |
| 02:53.04 | WobWork | oh. the enchant |
| 02:53.10 | Arrowmaster | theres a +30 spellpower i thought |
| 02:53.17 | WobWork | I was thinking it was a bit much for the actual enchant scroll =P |
| 02:53.17 | Arrowmaster | the +29 is probably the old healing one |
| 02:53.26 | Dagmar | To who? |
| 02:53.29 | Dagmar | noobs |
| 02:53.30 | Dagmar | ? |
| 02:53.55 | Amarande | I forget where the 30 is from |
| 02:54.04 | Amarande | 29's from MC, I think, and yeah, it was the old healing one |
| 02:54.10 | Amarande | in any case, the difference is practically nil |
| 02:54.26 | Amarande | and the 29 and 30 are the only two spellpower enchants that will go on heirloom weapons, so they are actually quite useful |
| 02:54.39 | Arrowmaster | i used up so many damn golden pearls on that damn +30 enchant |
| 02:55.05 | Nechckn | Amarande That is why they are so expensive, too. =) |
| 02:55.09 | Amarande | +40 needs level 35+ and is also a very rare drop |
| 02:55.11 | Arrowmaster | so many i even fucking farmed the pearls |
| 02:55.19 | Amarande | +50 needs level 60+ |
| 02:55.33 | Nechckn | which clams, Arrowmaster? |
| 02:55.36 | Arrowmaster | i think i cleaned out the AH of golden pearls one night |
| 02:55.48 | Dagmar | YEah but they're mainly only useful for twinks |
| 02:55.50 | WobWork | it's a rare clam drop, isn't it? |
| 02:55.58 | Arrowmaster | Nechckn: not the ones in outland that you get them from a lot |
| 02:55.59 | Nechckn | I think so, but thought it was one type. |
| 02:56.03 | Dagmar | Besides which, you can always just grab an heirloom |
| 02:56.04 | Amarande | Dagmar: +30? Useful for leveling a caster with an heirloom staff now |
| 02:56.16 | Amarande | since it's the highest one without a level requirement |
| 02:56.29 | Dagmar | Amarande: I *did* mention that I have a warlock who pulls by *running into camps* |
| 02:56.37 | Dagmar | ...because it just doesn't matter. |
| 02:57.01 | Amarande | wow |
| 02:57.02 | Nechckn | why is that, Dagmar? he likes to die? |
| 02:57.10 | Amarande | if I ever tried that with my warlock when leveling, I died :) |
| 02:57.13 | Nechckn | Orr.. in some specific area? |
| 02:57.15 | Dagmar | No, because he has a big-ass demon guard |
| 02:57.24 | Dagmar | ...but that's been the way I've been pulling since level 30. |
| 02:57.24 | Nechckn | Ah.. kk =) |
| 02:57.28 | Amarande | Nechckn: no, Orr is a place from Guild Wars. :) |
| 02:57.33 | Dagmar | It's easier to get the screaming and the running around started. :) |
| 02:57.35 | Nechckn | yeah, yeah... |
| 02:57.47 | Amarande | Dagmar: heh, you're going to have issue with that when you get to Grizzly Hills |
| 02:57.54 | Dagmar | No, I really didn't. |
| 02:58.06 | airtonix | complaining about enchanting in wow ? LAWL |
| 02:58.11 | Dagmar | There I was *still* running full tilt through the woods dropping two dots on everything |
| 02:58.11 | Nechckn | I started a DK last night and loved running into town with everyone fearing and running away. |
| 02:58.19 | Nechckn | (In the starter zone) |
| 02:58.20 | Amarande | On my lock, I found there were some places there where the trolls were packed densely enough that I basically had to pop meta to take them down before getting overwhelmed |
| 02:58.26 | Dagmar | I'm pumping Tournament dailies for XP now |
| 02:58.51 | Dagmar | Amarande: Stack 6-8 of them and start seeding |
| 02:58.57 | Amarande | Of course, *with* meta they were cake, but that's because meta is just plain OP |
| 02:58.58 | airtonix | you should try get +10 enchant on ONE piece of gear in Aion.... thats an excercise in futility |
| 02:59.00 | Dagmar | ...if that many even survive at once |
| 02:59.01 | Nechckn | airtonix good point =P |
| 02:59.13 | Amarande | airtonix: I've heard Aion kinda sucks. :) |
| 02:59.19 | Xinhuan | aion lol |
| 02:59.24 | airtonix | i no rite |
| 02:59.27 | airtonix | fuck that |
| 02:59.29 | Xinhuan | hit 40 and grind |
| 02:59.38 | airtonix | you have to get to 40 first |
| 02:59.53 | Xinhuan | haha |
| 03:00.01 | airtonix | chances of that happening before ncsoft bans you |
| 03:00.07 | airtonix | for fuck knows what reason |
| 03:00.16 | Xinhuan | so angsty |
| 03:00.20 | Dagmar | "We know you are running a bot because all of our players are bots" |
| 03:00.23 | airtonix | "hi we have proof you are trading rmt" |
| 03:00.24 | Amarande | heh, do people get banned from Aion more often than they did from GW? |
| 03:00.26 | airtonix | FUUUUUU |
| 03:00.32 | Dagmar | "Ur b-b-banneD" |
| 03:00.32 | Amarande | I don't remember NCsoft banning left and right from GW |
| 03:00.40 | airtonix | Amarande, read the aionsource forums. |
| 03:00.42 | Amarande | You'd think they'd have LESS motivation to do so from Aion, which has a monthly fee IIRC |
| 03:01.03 | airtonix | Amarande, the people that manage guildwars are not the people managing aion |
| 03:01.04 | Dagmar | Amarande: And then you'd see the bot grazing areas |
| 03:01.06 | Amarande | although maybe after the Bergen Bot Springs fiasco in GW, they overreacted |
| 03:01.20 | Nechckn | I was really looking forward to Aion, then played the beta.. eesh. |
| 03:01.25 | airtonix | Amarande, the people managing lineage are the people that manage aion now. |
| 03:01.40 | Dagmar | It took my brother all of fifteen minutes to find a big field of bots to show me |
| 03:01.57 | Nechckn | GW has that lead guy who is really pragmatic,so I think that is what keeps them safer from the overall NCSoftness. |
| 03:02.00 | Dagmar | airtonix: Oh... so basically you're saying they're eliminating the competition |
| 03:02.10 | airtonix | you know what their solution to stopping gold spam in trade was ? to prevent chat until level 10.... |
| 03:02.28 | Dagmar | "You've been found guilty of botting and not offering us a cut. U r b-b-banned!" |
| 03:02.33 | airtonix | at which point you could see the bot trains spawning like some crazy visual audio effect |
| 03:02.40 | Arrowmaster | GW is made my arenanet and only published by ncsoft, i think ncsoft has a much greater amount of control over aion |
| 03:02.47 | airtonix | ^ |
| 03:03.10 | Nechckn | Aion is not made by them, either, though. |
| 03:03.20 | Nechckn | Only licensed here. |
| 03:03.21 | airtonix | well |
| 03:03.24 | airtonix | it is |
| 03:03.27 | Arrowmaster | right but does anybody actually know who made aion? |
| 03:03.28 | Nechckn | Just sayin |
| 03:03.33 | airtonix | ncsoft is a korean company |
| 03:03.57 | Nechckn | SkyNet, Arrowmaster. |
| 03:03.58 | Arrowmaster | hell guildwars had a public beta event before ncsoft was even the publisher i think |
| 03:04.04 | airtonix | and the devs who make it work for ncsoft |
| 03:04.41 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@c-68-33-146-13.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 03:04.42 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 03:04.46 | airtonix | company you're thinking of Nechckn is ncwest... who just look pretty on the blog videos |
| 03:04.53 | airtonix | and fail at customer service |
| 03:04.58 | Nechckn | SkyNet!!! damnit |
| 03:05.05 | Nechckn | I'm telling you... |
| 03:05.20 | airtonix | skynet is unavoidable |
| 03:05.20 | Nechckn | be.afraid. be.very.afraid. |
| 03:05.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Sesshu| (~Sesshu@ip-227-18.travedsl.de) |
| 03:06.02 | Amarande | customer service seems to be practically a lost art now |
| 03:06.05 | airtonix | lol actually thinking of cromatti as customer service... |
| 03:06.21 | Amarande | I'm trying to think of anywhere outside of retail where it's still considered important by companies :S |
| 03:06.24 | Amarande | I'm failing |
| 03:06.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Cide@c213-100-51-33.swipnet.se) |
| 03:06.28 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 03:06.55 | Cide | how do I tell aptitude what my kernel source dir is? |
| 03:07.00 | Cide | or dpkg maybe |
| 03:07.14 | Arrowmaster | you shouldnt need to |
| 03:07.27 | Arrowmaster | what exactly are you doing |
| 03:07.33 | Cide | well, when I tried to install the fglrx driver, I get this from aptitude |
| 03:07.41 | Cide | Error! Your kernel headers for kernel 2.6.32-trunk-amd64 cannot be found at |
| 03:07.43 | Cide | /lib/modules/2.6.32-trunk-amd64/build |
| 03:07.52 | airtonix | install them |
| 03:07.53 | Arrowmaster | gah |
| 03:08.00 | Cide | but I do have a directory /lib/modules/2.6.32-3-amd64 |
| 03:08.06 | airtonix | doesnt matter |
| 03:08.11 | Arrowmaster | you need to update your kernel first |
| 03:08.15 | airtonix | you obviously dont have the headers |
| 03:08.25 | Cide | ah, I see |
| 03:08.32 | airtonix | wonders if fglrx works with dkms |
| 03:08.37 | Arrowmaster | it does |
| 03:08.43 | Cide | so how do I go about doing that most easily? |
| 03:08.45 | airtonix | Cide, then install dkms too |
| 03:08.47 | Arrowmaster | dkms is whats giving that error probably |
| 03:08.56 | airtonix | it shouldnt |
| 03:08.58 | Arrowmaster | Cide: actually what kernel are you using? |
| 03:09.00 | airtonix | thats the point |
| 03:09.19 | Cide | I installed debian squeeze from the network install |
| 03:09.22 | Cide | like 30 min ago |
| 03:09.29 | Arrowmaster | oh you did a reinstall? |
| 03:09.32 | Amarande | was squeeze released, or is it still testing? |
| 03:09.32 | Cide | yeah |
| 03:09.45 | Arrowmaster | well still, uname |
| 03:09.47 | Cide | I guess you didn't see how I managed to purge xserver |
| 03:09.50 | Arrowmaster | tell me kernel |
| 03:10.00 | Cide | uname -r => 2.6.32-trunk-amd64 |
| 03:10.13 | Arrowmaster | Cide: i did, i was going to tell you to just install gnome but you quit |
| 03:10.18 | Cide | ah |
| 03:10.21 | Cide | well now it works :> |
| 03:10.26 | Arrowmaster | Cide: yeah you need to update the kernel |
| 03:10.27 | Cide | except for the above |
| 03:10.40 | Cide | best way to go about doing that? |
| 03:11.05 | Cide | I guess I need the trunk kernel |
| 03:11.12 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 03:11.18 | Arrowmaster | use aptitude |
| 03:11.27 | airtonix | and browse for it |
| 03:11.33 | airtonix | nom nom nom |
| 03:12.25 | Cide | alright |
| 03:12.32 | p3lim | Got a job for someone with good javascrip knowledge, please PM me :) |
| 03:12.47 | Arrowmaster | Cide: if its not showing as upgradable i might have an idea why |
| 03:12.57 | Cide | well what am I looking for in synaptic? |
| 03:13.04 | Arrowmaster | no clue |
| 03:13.09 | Arrowmaster | i dont touch that pos |
| 03:13.10 | Cide | there are a bunch of kernel-related packages |
| 03:13.12 | Cide | lol |
| 03:13.18 | Arrowmaster | i forcefully removed it from my system |
| 03:13.25 | Cide | well I can go about using aptitude instead |
| 03:13.46 | Arrowmaster | linux-image-2.6-amd64 |
| 03:13.49 | Arrowmaster | make sure thats installed |
| 03:14.14 | Cide | i linux-image-2.6-amd64 |
| 03:14.32 | Cide | i A linux-image-2.6.32-trunk-amd64 |
| 03:14.35 | Cide | what's the A signify? |
| 03:14.43 | Arrowmaster | automatically installed |
| 03:14.52 | Cide | so I should have that then? |
| 03:14.57 | Cide | that's what it said I was missing headers for |
| 03:14.57 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 03:15.35 | Cide | no? |
| 03:15.52 | Arrowmaster | if you have squeeze then linux-image-2.6-amd64 should have pulled in linux-image-2.6.32-3-amd64 automatically |
| 03:16.18 | Cide | I'll just pastey this |
| 03:16.21 | Arrowmaster | ok |
| 03:16.38 | Cide | http://pastey.net/136538 |
| 03:16.49 | Arrowmaster | linux-image-2.6.32-trunk-amd64 shouldnt even be in the repo anymore afaik so you shouldnt be able to get the headers for it |
| 03:16.52 | ajmitch | isn't the right linux-headers package available to install? |
| 03:17.05 | Arrowmaster | Cide: OK! |
| 03:17.07 | Arrowmaster | you have both |
| 03:17.09 | Arrowmaster | i know the problem |
| 03:17.12 | Cide | alright |
| 03:17.16 | Cide | that's comforting that you do; I don't |
| 03:18.14 | Arrowmaster | you need to reboot and instead of letting grub (i am assuming you let it install grub by default) automatically boot the first option you need to select 2.6.32-3 instead of 2.6.32-trunk |
| 03:18.32 | Arrowmaster | the entire -trunk thing fucked up grubs sorting so it puts it first even though its older |
| 03:18.34 | Cide | will both show up in grub? |
| 03:18.38 | Cide | ah |
| 03:18.42 | Arrowmaster | you should have 4 grub entries |
| 03:18.42 | Cide | going to try that, brb a sec |
| 03:18.46 | Cide | yeah, I do |
| 03:18.46 | Cide | brb |
| 03:19.25 | ajmitch | annoyingly stupid versioning of the kernel packages there |
| 03:19.43 | Arrowmaster | yeah i dont know why the hell they made that -trunk package but it caused hell |
| 03:20.20 | Arrowmaster | when he gets back ive got to tell him to purge that damn thing |
| 03:20.51 | ajmitch | was pleasantly surprised at how well wow runs on fglrx now, even if it needed -opengl |
| 03:21.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Cide@c213-100-51-33.swipnet.se) |
| 03:21.04 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 03:21.14 | Arrowmaster | Cide: are you using 2.6.32-3 now? |
| 03:21.17 | Cide | that worked magically |
| 03:21.18 | Cide | yes |
| 03:21.30 | Cide | and fglrx-modules-dkms installed fine |
| 03:21.32 | ajmitch | magically recompiled fglrx on boot, too? |
| 03:21.40 | Cide | no idea |
| 03:21.44 | Cide | likely not! |
| 03:21.51 | Cide | so I gotta remove all this stuff and do it again? |
| 03:22.01 | Dagmar | Maybe |
| 03:22.02 | Arrowmaster | ok now `aptitude purge linux-image-2.6.32-trunk-amd64` |
| 03:22.19 | Cide | or do I have to boot into -trunk and remove fglrx stuff there and then boot back into -3 and install it? |
| 03:22.21 | Dagmar | ...an nVidia card is still only a few mouse clicks away. |
| 03:22.25 | Cide | lol |
| 03:22.37 | Cide | this is a top of the line ati card so I'm not switching anytime soon |
| 03:22.50 | Dagmar | Now you're starting to see why I use Slackware (so obviously I'm a masochist) but I *still* don't buy ATI cards, no matter what price point |
| 03:23.13 | Arrowmaster | Cide: aptitude reinstall fglrx-modules-dkms |
| 03:23.21 | Cide | why reinstall that? |
| 03:23.26 | Arrowmaster | just to be sure |
| 03:23.32 | Cide | all the other fglrx modules installed fine when I was on -trunk |
| 03:23.38 | Cide | are they not working now that I'm on -3? |
| 03:23.59 | Arrowmaster | sec |
| 03:24.01 | ajmitch | the -dkms part is what's kernel-specific |
| 03:24.09 | Cide | ok |
| 03:24.16 | Arrowmaster | lsmod | grep fglrx |
| 03:24.16 | Cide | well that's reinstalled now and went fine |
| 03:24.17 | ajmitch | it shouldn't need to be reinstalled, but doing so won't change it if it's working right |
| 03:24.25 | Cide | Arrowmaster: nothing |
| 03:24.29 | Arrowmaster | ah ha |
| 03:25.23 | Cide | that's bad I'm guessing |
| 03:25.52 | Arrowmaster | did you do the things this said? http://wiki.debian.org/ATIProprietary#Squeeze |
| 03:25.56 | Cide | yes |
| 03:25.57 | Arrowmaster | like editing xorg.conf |
| 03:26.00 | Cide | no |
| 03:26.08 | Cide | I'm at step #2 |
| 03:26.15 | Arrowmaster | ok |
| 03:26.20 | Cide | since fglrx-modules-dkms is a dependency of that |
| 03:26.26 | Cide | and it didn't install so I didn't proceed |
| 03:26.29 | Arrowmaster | ok well that is installed now |
| 03:26.29 | Cide | should I proceed now? |
| 03:26.35 | Arrowmaster | proceed |
| 03:26.39 | Cide | ok, so next question |
| 03:26.49 | Cide | f the X Window System is running, exit your desktop environment or window manager. |
| 03:26.53 | Cide | how? |
| 03:27.34 | ajmitch | that page gives examples |
| 03:27.42 | Cide | that's for the display manager I thought |
| 03:27.46 | Cide | not window manager |
| 03:27.50 | ajmitch | logout from your X session normally |
| 03:27.53 | Dezzimal | blah |
| 03:27.54 | Arrowmaster | yeah |
| 03:27.57 | ajmitch | and shutdown gdm |
| 03:27.59 | Dezzimal | PTR character copy still isn't working :/ |
| 03:28.08 | Cide | um |
| 03:28.16 | Arrowmaster | Cide: install irssi |
| 03:28.27 | Cide | I'm running irssi |
| 03:28.35 | Arrowmaster | ctrl-aft-f2, login, run irssi |
| 03:29.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide- (~Cide@c213-100-51-33.swipnet.se) |
| 03:29.12 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
| 03:29.15 | Cide- | done |
| 03:29.19 | Cide- | done |
| 03:29.29 | Cide- | ctrl+alt+f2 logouts the x session? |
| 03:29.34 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 03:29.35 | ajmitch | no, it switches to the console |
| 03:29.38 | Cide- | ok |
| 03:29.39 | Shirik | fail |
| 03:29.44 | Cide- | you're fail |
| 03:29.48 | Shirik | faillllllllllllll |
| 03:29.50 | Arrowmaster | alt-f7 and go logout, then ctrl-alt-f2 to get back |
| 03:30.02 | Cide- | you have a purl command dedicated to your fail |
| 03:30.10 | ajmitch | ctrl-alt-backspace still work in squeeze? |
| 03:30.15 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 03:30.21 | ajmitch | how annoying |
| 03:30.27 | Shirik | this is linux basics man |
| 03:30.27 | Cide- | ok |
| 03:30.31 | Shirik | gotta know |
| 03:30.40 | Cide- | this is me learning linux basics god |
| 03:30.49 | Cide- | ok so I'm now logged out |
| 03:30.49 | Shirik | UNACCEPTABLE |
| 03:30.51 | Arrowmaster | Cide-: do you have sudo installed? |
| 03:30.53 | Cide- | yes |
| 03:30.55 | Shirik | this knowledge should be attained at birth |
| 03:30.58 | Arrowmaster | and it works? |
| 03:30.59 | Cide- | ~failrik |
| 03:31.00 | purl | FAIL, Shirik, FAIL! |
| 03:31.00 | Cide- | yes |
| 03:31.13 | Cide- | I edited the sudoers file (see, Shirik, I'm awesome) |
| 03:31.18 | Shirik | no |
| 03:31.23 | Shirik | use of sudo is evil |
| 03:31.28 | Cide- | what do you propose? |
| 03:31.29 | Arrowmaster | ok alt-f3, login, sudo invoke-rc.d gdm stop |
| 03:31.38 | Cide- | wait should I log in again? |
| 03:31.54 | Cide- | or does that just mean that I don't quit irrsi |
| 03:31.56 | Cide- | irssi rather |
| 03:31.56 | Shirik | what distro are you using? |
| 03:31.57 | Arrowmaster | yes, do it in another vt so you keep irc running |
| 03:32.01 | Cide- | ah |
| 03:32.03 | Cide- | debian, Shirik |
| 03:32.09 | Shirik | meh |
| 03:32.12 | Shirik | you could do worse |
| 03:32.16 | Arrowmaster | i assume you are using gnome since its the default |
| 03:32.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (~Kandoko@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 03:32.33 | Cide- | yes |
| 03:32.36 | Cide- | ok, done |
| 03:32.45 | Arrowmaster | sudo modprobe -r radeon drm |
| 03:32.55 | Cide- | done |
| 03:33.09 | Arrowmaster | do you have an /etc/X11/xorg.conf |
| 03:33.14 | Cide- | no |
| 03:34.32 | Arrowmaster | wget http://paste.wowace.com/ao5p6nfi01r2gxcm.txt |
| 03:34.33 | Cide- | Shirik: for when adys bothers you |
| 03:34.35 | Cide- | ~faildys |
| 03:34.36 | purl | FAIL, Adys, FAIL! |
| 03:34.41 | Arrowmaster | i hope you are still in your home dir |
| 03:34.46 | Cide- | yes |
| 03:34.50 | Arrowmaster | do that wget |
| 03:35.02 | Adys | Im busy |
| 03:35.10 | Adys | bettering my parser |
| 03:35.20 | Adys | Place a fire trap that will burn the first enemy to approach for $<damage> Fire damage over 15 sec. Trap will exist for 30 sec. Only one trap can be active at a time. |
| 03:35.22 | Adys | \o/ |
| 03:35.24 | Cide- | done |
| 03:35.33 | Arrowmaster | sudo ~/ao5p6nfi01r2gxcm.txt /etc/X11/xorg.conf |
| 03:35.42 | Cide- | sudo mv? |
| 03:35.49 | Cide- | or is that some magic I don't know about |
| 03:35.51 | Arrowmaster | cp |
| 03:35.53 | Cide- | ok |
| 03:36.03 | Cide- | done |
| 03:36.12 | Arrowmaster | sudo invoke-rc.d gdm start |
| 03:36.34 | Arrowmaster | sudo make me a sandwich |
| 03:37.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Cide@c213-100-51-33.swipnet.se) |
| 03:37.03 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 03:37.08 | Cide | and everything became beautiful |
| 03:37.10 | Arrowmaster | sudo make me a sandwich |
| 03:37.14 | Cide | however |
| 03:37.22 | Cide | how do I close the old vt? |
| 03:37.26 | Cide | alt+f2 no longer works |
| 03:37.35 | Arrowmaster | ctrl+alt+f2 |
| 03:37.44 | Arrowmaster | you have to use ctrl when you are inside X |
| 03:37.54 | A-KO | wow, that's fucked up......god I hate wow players |
| 03:37.59 | Cide- | ah |
| 03:38.16 | cogwheel | mrs cog made me a sammich |
| 03:38.22 | Arrowmaster | just logout of vt2 and vt3 now |
| 03:38.38 | A-KO | friend of mine just got banned for "scamming" because some dude refused to pay her asking price for a craft, and he reported her.... |
| 03:38.41 | A-KO | and she gets banned for a day.. |
| 03:38.52 | Cide | done |
| 03:39.01 | Arrowmaster | everything working fine now? |
| 03:39.14 | Cide | in theory |
| 03:39.46 | Cide | lspci | grep fglrx turns up nothing still |
| 03:39.53 | Arrowmaster | its lsmod |
| 03:40.03 | Cide | oh |
| 03:40.06 | Cide | that turned up |
| 03:40.12 | Arrowmaster | good |
| 03:40.32 | Cide | glxgears gives me 8.5k fps so I guess it works |
| 03:40.54 | Cide | this is a massive improvement, thanks Arrowmaster |
| 03:41.01 | Cide | (and airtonix and Dagmar etc) |
| 03:41.35 | Arrowmaster | i hope you purged that other kernel |
| 03:41.40 | Arrowmaster | so you never boot into it again |
| 03:41.45 | Cide | oh no, I forgot |
| 03:41.54 | Cide | aptitude purge linux-image-2.6.32-trunk-amd64 right? |
| 03:42.05 | Arrowmaster | yeah |
| 03:42.16 | Cide | will it get removed from grub? yeah |
| 03:42.33 | Arrowmaster | it should |
| 03:42.33 | Cide | one more issue though |
| 03:42.33 | Cide | grub doesn't show my windows partition |
| 03:42.40 | Cide | despite it recognizing it during installation |
| 03:42.49 | Cide | (some may argue this is a non-issue) |
| 03:42.54 | Cide | hey, it looks like it found it now |
| 03:43.01 | Cide | Found Windows 7 (loader) on /dev/sda1 |
| 03:43.52 | Arrowmaster | good, i dont dual boot so i dont know what to do if you have issues with that |
| 03:44.53 | Cide | sudo apt-get remove libwine wine |
| 03:44.55 | Cide | oops. |
| 03:45.05 | Cide | can I rename terminal windows? |
| 03:45.13 | Cide | always getting confused by this window |
| 03:45.29 | Cide | yes I could |
| 03:46.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan| (~pancake@cpe-174-098-002-214.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 03:46.06 | Arrowmaster | i use zsh and have it set to put the name of the command running in the window title |
| 03:46.15 | Arrowmaster | (bash cant do that) |
| 03:46.59 | Cide | oh well |
| 03:47.10 | Cide | guess that's an adventure for tomorrow |
| 03:49.52 | Cide | easiest way to restart x when there isn't ctrl+alt+backspace? |
| 03:50.13 | WobWork | ctrl-alt-2? |
| 03:50.19 | WobWork | or is it F2 |
| 03:50.43 | Cide | I thought that just launces another terminal |
| 03:50.59 | Cide | launches too |
| 03:51.59 | Arrowmaster | Cide: ctrl-alt-backspace causes everything thats running to exit right? |
| 03:52.10 | Cide | it does nothing |
| 03:52.16 | Arrowmaster | i mean when its enabled |
| 03:52.23 | Cide | I can't remember |
| 03:52.34 | Arrowmaster | well you can just logout and log back in |
| 03:52.41 | Arrowmaster | x gets restarted then |
| 03:53.06 | Cide | alright |
| 03:53.09 | Arrowmaster | and wtf http://arrowmaster.net/Screenshot-4.png why would there be a voice file for that |
| 03:53.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (~chatzilla@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 03:54.07 | WobWork | well, launches another terminal in which you can kill the Xwin instance =) |
| 03:56.18 | Cide | if I knew how to do that I would |
| 03:56.24 | Cide | for now I will log out! |
| 03:56.46 | Adys | http://dpaste.com/195492/ WHY IS THIS NECESSARY |
| 03:57.12 | WobWork | hehe |
| 03:57.28 | WobWork | In case you didn't figure out that Onyxia's flaming breath hits all enemies on the ground for 6375 to 8625 Fire damage. |
| 03:57.41 | Adys | Ok see |
| 03:57.45 | Adys | i can understand blizz |
| 03:57.48 | Adys | I'm in their mind |
| 03:57.50 | Arrowmaster | echo "setxkbmap -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp" >> ~/.gnomerc |
| 03:57.52 | Adys | I'm in their very soul |
| 03:58.02 | Arrowmaster | and have you damn ctrl-alt-bksp back |
| 03:58.16 | WobWork | Arrowmaster: he's gone |
| 03:58.19 | WobWork | gone gone gone |
| 03:58.19 | Adys | I know they can, for one single boss, have .. ten, TWENTY spells for the very same ability |
| 03:58.21 | Arrowmaster | doh |
| 03:58.28 | Arrowmaster | and plus theres a better way to do that |
| 03:58.29 | Adys | heroic, non heroic, triggers, checks, copies |
| 03:58.33 | Adys | BUT 87? |
| 03:59.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Cide@c213-100-51-33.swipnet.se) |
| 03:59.23 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 03:59.26 | WobWork | I guess they just want to make sure they cover all bases =P |
| 04:01.11 | Kraps | did anyone see "9"? |
| 04:02.43 | Adys | where? |
| 04:03.39 | Kraps | the movie :p |
| 04:04.02 | Dagmar | I saw it |
| 04:04.07 | Dagmar | It's pretty cute |
| 04:04.19 | Arrowmaster | � |
| 04:04.19 | Dagmar | ...but it *is* about as substantive as a two-hour graphics demo |
| 04:04.25 | Kraps | cute? |
| 04:05.41 | WobWork | Dagmar: aren't most movies nowadays like that? =P |
| 04:05.51 | Dagmar | dUde it's a movit about tiny burlap poppets |
| 04:05.57 | Dagmar | What *other* word is someone to use? |
| 04:06.12 | WobWork | 'wumpy' |
| 04:06.54 | Kraps | except that: its in a post apocalyptic world, and they're being chased by horrible robats |
| 04:07.03 | Kraps | robots* |
| 04:07.27 | Kraps | and (SPOILER) theres deaths |
| 04:13.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Cide@c213-100-51-33.swipnet.se) |
| 04:13.11 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 04:19.00 | Amarande | yay. attacked elite alliance NPC without checking its eliteness or faction, and died. :P |
| 04:19.01 | Amarande | fails. |
| 04:19.44 | Arrowmaster | was it the gnome king? |
| 04:19.56 | Arrowmaster | dont tell me you let him bite your kneecaps off? |
| 04:20.06 | Amarande | no, it was some duke in the carrion fields near naxxramas |
| 04:20.18 | Amarande | mistook him for one of the scourge guys and attacked |
| 04:20.39 | Amarande | an easy mistake to make even though he doesn't normally aggro, since being rather high level for questing Dragonblight my aggro radius is also naturally quite small |
| 04:21.29 | Dagmar | It's a good thing you pay more attention than that when you eat fried chicken. |
| 04:21.41 | Dagmar | Typings a bitch if you bite off a few fingers in haste. |
| 04:23.30 | Amarande | Oh, and a little protip that occurred to me last night when dueled. |
| 04:23.40 | Amarande | If you have a Heavy Frostweave Bandage in your inventory, and have never dueled before, ACCEPT THE DUEL |
| 04:23.45 | Amarande | Win or lose, 10 achievement points |
| 04:23.55 | Dagmar | hehe |
| 04:24.07 | Dagmar | I got mine immediately after my first damn-near-falling-death |
| 04:24.15 | Dagmar | Definitely adding insult to injury. |
| 04:24.41 | Amarande | I forgot about ultimate triage until after I'd lost the duel and decided to heal myself from 1 hp before continuing :) |
| 04:25.15 | Arrowmaster | you didnt used to be able to heal yourself for that one |
| 04:25.48 | Amarande | when? |
| 04:26.58 | Amarande | although I didn't heal myself on the lock |
| 04:27.07 | Amarande | on the lock, I believe I picked it up while trying to heal someone I was running through mara |
| 04:27.12 | WobWork | did they remove the self harm from hellfire? |
| 04:27.14 | Amarande | (sadly, they were still poisoned and still died right after :() |
| 04:29.07 | Thunder_Child | i hate people. as i walked in the house "did you find where to park?" what the hell am i going to say "nope, i just decided to leave it in the middle of the street with the engine running." /rant |
| 04:31.07 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@c-98-239-20-229.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 04:31.59 | Amarande | T_C: isn't it unfortunate that real life vehicles don't come in the form of a small token that can be used to summon and dismiss on demand :) |
| 04:32.25 | Thunder_Child | Amarande: not yet at any rate :p |
| 04:34.22 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-68-38-51-80.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 04:36.30 | Amarande | yay, looks like it's time for this DK to participate in Wrathgate |
| 04:36.40 | Amarande | speaking of which, anyone know how the wrathgate chain is going to change in cata yet? |
| 04:36.57 | Amarande | mainly due to the change in layouts in org/UC and the lack of Thrall as Warchief ... |
| 04:37.43 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@d86-33-7-18.cust.tele2.at) |
| 04:39.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Thrae (~ircuser@generalmx-1-pt.tunnel.tserv13.ash1.ipv6.he.net) |
| 04:39.32 | Jerub | i don't think i've ever done wrathgate |
| 04:39.44 | WobWork | Jerub: gasp |
| 04:39.46 | WobWork | go do it! |
| 04:39.54 | WobWork | one of the best quest chains in the game |
| 04:41.38 | Amarande | not to mention, varimathras seems to have been removed from the game permanently, so I wonder if it's been changed once already ... |
| 04:43.25 | Dagmar | I liked doing the undercity bit using Hellfire |
| 04:44.20 | tem | Amarande, it depends on how you view time in the game |
| 04:44.42 | tem | if you view your level as your location on the wow timeline, then the quests can stay pretty much exactly as they are |
| 04:45.19 | WobWork | Amarande: he's only gone if you've done wrathgate, no? |
| 04:45.39 | Dagmar | tem: Yeah but Horde are kinda going to notice a few things odd |
| 04:45.56 | Amarande | Wob: even my horde lowbies are seeing a different NPC offering the quests Vari used to offer |
| 04:46.14 | Dagmar | Vari's been replaced, accoring to WowWiki |
| 04:46.34 | Amarande | or do they have him make an appearance just for the Wrathgate quest now? |
| 04:46.56 | WobWork | weird |
| 04:47.02 | Dagmar | "For a time, he appeared only to characters who had not finished the Wrathgate quest chain, but was removed completely and replaced by Bragor Bloodfist in patch 3.3.0." |
| 04:47.06 | WobWork | the whole point of the wrathgate was that he was a part of it |
| 04:47.22 | WobWork | all of a sudden "Surprise Varmithras"? |
| 04:52.01 | Kraps | youtube is 5 years old |
| 04:54.22 | Jerub | WobWork: i don't even know where i'm up to in the quest chian.... |
| 04:54.27 | *** join/#wowuidev mascondante (kvirc@75-105-24-144.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 04:54.30 | Jerub | WobWork: doesn't it involve like, going back in time to UC or somethign? |
| 04:54.46 | Jerub | i did one with a cutscene in dragonblight/icecrown |
| 04:55.08 | Jerub | also, 4 more instances to do until OL dungeonmaster is done :/ |
| 04:55.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (~Kandoko@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 04:55.23 | Jerub | i'm so proud of getting classic dungeomaster done :D |
| 04:56.50 | WobWork | Jerub: nope |
| 04:56.58 | WobWork | also https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Animal_attacks_in_Australia |
| 04:57.21 | Dagmar | It was only a matter of time before some furrie took things a bit too far |
| 04:59.40 | Kraps | how is that encyclopedic? |
| 04:59.56 | Kraps | its more almanacish |
| 05:00.58 | Dagmar | "Ripley's" if you've been watching the news |
| 05:01.08 | Dagmar | They've got roos over there frotting joggers |
| 05:04.46 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 05:04.46 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 05:08.45 | Jerub | WobWork: why is that url not en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_attacks_in_Australia |
| 05:08.46 | Jerub | ? |
| 05:09.17 | WobWork | no idea |
| 05:09.25 | WobWork | that's how I got it initially linked to me |
| 05:10.46 | *** join/#wowuidev cncfanatics (~cncfanati@WoWUIDev/cncfanatics) |
| 05:28.52 | Thunder_Child | it's wikimedia not pedia |
| 05:31.13 | Jerub | Thunder_Child: you lie. |
| 05:31.50 | cybermind | probably cheaper to just get a single-domain SSL cert |
| 05:32.01 | cybermind | and allow access to everything off of that |
| 05:32.29 | cybermind | instead of allowing SSL for every one of wikipedia's language domains and all the other wikimedia foundation sites |
| 05:33.41 | Thunder_Child | Jerub: usually yes |
| 05:33.48 | Thunder_Child | not this time! |
| 05:47.02 | Thunder_Child | huh, they made 'the pretender' movies, go figure |
| 05:47.27 | WobWork | as in Jarod? |
| 05:47.59 | Thunder_Child | yes |
| 05:48.00 | Jerub | they made movies? |
| 05:48.04 | Thunder_Child | tv movies |
| 05:48.05 | Jerub | before or after the series? |
| 05:48.09 | Thunder_Child | after |
| 05:48.11 | Jerub | does it resolve the plotline at all? |
| 05:48.27 | Thunder_Child | http://www.tv.com/the-pretender/show/109/summary.html |
| 05:48.29 | Thunder_Child | hell if i know |
| 05:48.49 | Jerub | oh, i've seen it |
| 05:48.49 | Thunder_Child | thats of #2, dunno where #1 is |
| 05:49.08 | Thunder_Child | i'm guessing the answer to your question is no then |
| 05:49.33 | Jerub | actually, that one does resolve a fair bit |
| 05:50.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Allara_ (~chatzilla@c-98-246-148-48.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 05:55.58 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (~airtonix@unaffiliated/airtonix) |
| 05:59.05 | Thunder_Child | must food |
| 06:01.21 | airtonix | ~ping |
| 06:01.22 | purl | ~pong |
| 06:01.50 | *** join/#wowuidev eidolarr (~zls@c-71-61-178-129.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 06:02.21 | eidolarr | i graduated WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO |
| 06:03.14 | Thunder_Child | gratz eidolarr |
| 06:03.24 | Thunder_Child | next up are the big boy pants? |
| 06:03.44 | eidolarr | the what? |
| 06:04.02 | Thunder_Child | oh, i assumed you got potty trained, nvm me then |
| 06:04.14 | eidolarr | ah |
| 06:04.17 | eidolarr | good one |
| 06:04.38 | WobWork | what did you graduate as? |
| 06:05.05 | *** part/#wowuidev Iriel (~Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 06:05.08 | eidolarr | bachelor of sci from school of comp sci |
| 06:05.13 | WobWork | nice! |
| 06:05.24 | WobWork | welcome to the terrible world of IT |
| 06:06.02 | Thunder_Child | ^^ |
| 06:06.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Guardix-lagtop (~Martin@edu-clients.nat.esnord.dk) |
| 06:06.21 | eidolarr | i managed to get a job at a sweet startup |
| 06:06.33 | eidolarr | complete with free meals |
| 06:06.52 | Arrowmaster | congratulations you are now officially overqualified for every entry level position, i hope youve got some good references and inside friends to tell you about non entry level openings |
| 06:06.57 | WobWork | be wary of geeks bearing gifts =) |
| 06:07.21 | WobWork | (and don't accept shares as salary options, unless you're -very- very certain about the company( |
| 06:07.26 | eidolarr | they are also pay a silly salary but in socal i guess you have to |
| 06:07.52 | eidolarr | yeah i went for the balanced stock/salary path since they are definitely going to succeed |
| 06:08.11 | Arrowmaster | does the stock pay dividends? |
| 06:08.33 | eidolarr | no and it's not public |
| 06:09.00 | *** join/#wowuidev mascondante (kvirc@75-105-24-144.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 06:09.00 | WobWork | are they going to go public soon? |
| 06:09.04 | Jerub | i wish i could get shares as salary options here :/ |
| 06:09.07 | eidolarr | i have no idea |
| 06:09.11 | eidolarr | i would guess so |
| 06:09.15 | WobWork | Jerub: where do you work? |
| 06:09.18 | eidolarr | but i'm no stock analyst |
| 06:09.20 | Jerub | WobWork: netboxblue. |
| 06:09.20 | Arrowmaster | then its only use is to sell it, stocks that pay dividends are so much better |
| 06:09.55 | eidolarr | idk anything about dividends but even without it's lucrative |
| 06:10.00 | Jerub | Arrowmaster: startups can't pay dividends, startups are machiens for during investory capital into toilet paper |
| 06:10.32 | WobWork | your english is deteriorating the further you go along, Jerub =P |
| 06:11.12 | Jerub | :/ |
| 06:11.19 | Jerub | :( I'm coming down with something. |
| 06:11.27 | WobWork | did you get the flu shot? |
| 06:11.32 | Jerub | nope |
| 06:11.35 | eidolarr | they're profitable so hopefully less with the toilet paper |
| 06:11.47 | WobWork | eidolarr: maybe the three ply stuff! |
| 06:12.01 | Jerub | eidolarr: a startup that's already profitable, by definition, is not a startup. |
| 06:12.10 | Jerub | we call that 'a new company' or something. |
| 06:12.21 | eidolarr | well they have 300 employees so no not a hardcore startup |
| 06:12.30 | WobWork | just keep a close eye on the business, if there's a hint of imbalance, try to sell out |
| 06:12.35 | WobWork | although, is that insider trading? |
| 06:12.38 | Jerub | (wait, profitable sometimes means "if you disregard the millions of dollars of r&d we're burning") |
| 06:13.19 | eidolarr | i thought that was revenue |
| 06:15.25 | eidolarr | i thought profit was earnings minus costs |
| 06:15.46 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 06:16.12 | WobWork | eidolarr: what -is- the company? |
| 06:17.19 | eidolarr | palantir |
| 06:17.44 | WobWork | http://www.palantirtech.com/ ? |
| 06:17.47 | eidolarr | yeah |
| 06:18.13 | WobWork | there's something... I dunno.. creepy about that name =P |
| 06:18.27 | WobWork | "Lets corrupt your mind while you gaze into our depths!" |
| 06:18.56 | eidolarr | haha at the ceremony today the speaker was like "we have m people going to MS, n going to google, r to facebook" |
| 06:19.15 | eidolarr | "and others going to companies with exotic names like 'palantir', 'zynga', 'yelp'" |
| 06:20.43 | Arrowmaster | did you find out whos going to zynga and punch them? |
| 06:21.12 | eidolarr | lol i was going to say i was offended by the comparison |
| 06:21.34 | eidolarr | a couple of my friends are but they're remarkably unenthusiastic about their company |
| 06:21.52 | WobWork | wow, that's... promising =P |
| 06:21.54 | eidolarr | they generally want to work not-too-hard for short hours while they work on their own projects |
| 06:22.02 | WobWork | ahaha |
| 06:22.06 | WobWork | welcome to the real world =) |
| 06:22.34 | eidolarr | zynga seems like a good place to be if you want to stop work when you leave the office |
| 06:22.48 | eidolarr | although idk about stability, we'll see what ahppens if they leave facebook |
| 06:23.08 | WobWork | Do whatever you can, to get as much training as you can find |
| 06:23.20 | WobWork | be it certification or whatever |
| 06:23.30 | WobWork | it's always better to have the company pay for that for you |
| 06:23.36 | eidolarr | i thought certification was mostly IT |
| 06:23.39 | eidolarr | not development |
| 06:24.01 | WobWork | nothing wrong with expanding your knowledge =) |
| 06:24.19 | WobWork | you don't want to be caught in too narrow a job description |
| 06:24.23 | eidolarr | well i worked it for a summer and i fuckin hated it :P |
| 06:24.27 | eidolarr | it being IT |
| 06:24.36 | WobWork | IT is a ... broad... definition |
| 06:24.56 | eidolarr | like, keeping their systems running well |
| 06:25.01 | WobWork | Sysadmin? |
| 06:25.08 | WobWork | network admin? |
| 06:25.21 | WobWork | everything to do with computers, is IT |
| 06:25.23 | eidolarr | all of it, it was a small company, like 5 people |
| 06:25.31 | eidolarr | didn't need very special stuff |
| 06:25.33 | WobWork | from hardware to software |
| 06:25.54 | WobWork | and no, you can get certification for software, for programming languages and the like |
| 06:26.00 | WobWork | for CMSs and stuff |
| 06:27.46 | eidolarr | on a totally different note, in compilers, what's the difference between the lexer and the parser? |
| 06:27.55 | Adys | !api getmail |
| 06:27.55 | Jerub | i'm with wob. 'IT' is too broad. |
| 06:27.55 | lua_bot | Could not find a match for 'getmail'. |
| 06:27.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 06:27.59 | Adys | !api mailtext |
| 06:27.59 | lua_bot | Could not find a match for 'mailtext'. |
| 06:28.01 | Jerub | to the point i disregard anyone who says they're in IT |
| 06:29.05 | WobWork | It means anything from a BA to a computer systems engineer |
| 06:30.36 | krka | i always interpreter "IT" as "working with computer, but can't develop" |
| 06:30.48 | eidolarr | yeah me too |
| 06:31.11 | krka | btw, lexer = splitting up text in tokens |
| 06:31.20 | krka | parser = converting stream of tokens to an abstract syntax tree |
| 06:31.29 | WobWork | parser uses a lexer |
| 06:31.56 | WobWork | Eh, I always say I'm in IT, instead of having to explain what a 'back end developer' does |
| 06:31.56 | eidolarr | so the parser uses the evaluator and the lexer? |
| 06:32.20 | eidolarr | i think most people can distinguish a programmer from a technician |
| 06:32.32 | WobWork | you'd be surprised =P |
| 06:32.50 | WobWork | I never underestimate people's understanding |
| 06:32.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Lonny (~blah@bzq-82-80-183-46.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 06:33.00 | krka | i say i'm an engineer and/or software developer |
| 06:33.01 | WobWork | I just present it to them in a way that it doesn't matter to them |
| 06:33.19 | WobWork | They don't really need to know my precise job description |
| 06:33.29 | WobWork | generally saying "I work in IT" is sufficient |
| 06:33.56 | *** part/#wowuidev Lonny (~blah@bzq-82-80-183-46.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 06:33.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Lonny (~blah@bzq-82-80-183-46.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 06:34.35 | WobWork | also "working with computer, but can't develop" is a bit harsh |
| 06:34.46 | WobWork | have you never 'developed' scripts while doing sysadmin? |
| 06:35.25 | *** join/#wowuidev akhe (~akhe@0x573fa156.ronqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 06:35.38 | krka | sure, i meant scope wise |
| 06:35.45 | Arrowmaster | i can do that but have absolutely no interest in ever being a 'programmer' as my job description |
| 06:36.02 | krka | there's a clear difference in scope writing a one off script, and maintaining a large codebase over a long period of time |
| 06:36.56 | WobWork | krka: I guess it's the wording used =P "can't" implies inability |
| 06:37.14 | WobWork | "doesn't" might be more accurate |
| 06:37.21 | WobWork | even if it was accurate in the first place |
| 06:37.30 | WobWork | since IT stands for Information Technology |
| 06:37.39 | eidolarr | i think "can't" is what he meant |
| 06:37.40 | WobWork | which is a broad definition of anything computer related |
| 06:37.42 | krka | well, even if are competent and writing scripts, that doesn't mean you're competent for large scale development |
| 06:37.52 | krka | but maybe "doesn't" is a better choice of words |
| 06:37.59 | WobWork | well you can't claim scope, then claim misdefinition |
| 06:38.17 | krka | i didn't expect the spanish inquisition! |
| 06:38.29 | WobWork | Nobody expects the Spanish Inquistion! |
| 06:38.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@pool015.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 06:38.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 06:47.26 | Adys | http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1666 |
| 06:49.44 | Amarande | Ding 78, and still in Dragonblight |
| 06:49.46 | Amarande | this zone never ends, LOL |
| 06:49.52 | WobWork | truth |
| 06:50.46 | Jerub | db? |
| 06:50.48 | Jerub | i hate it :( |
| 06:50.55 | Jerub | i did 78->80 in icecrown |
| 06:51.12 | Jerub | including half of 79 being a friend of mine farming those soldiers for me |
| 06:51.16 | Amarande | also: never, ever queue as tank at 78 unless you're feeling lucky |
| 06:51.20 | Jerub | (you know, the ones that march around under banners near icc) |
| 06:51.33 | Amarande | 78 is *the* worst level to tank at, actually |
| 06:51.34 | Jerub | Amarande: I plan to tank all through all wotlk. |
| 06:51.45 | Jerub | Amarande: meh, 67 is the worst. |
| 06:51.52 | Jerub | i got crushing blows in the mechanar. |
| 06:52.00 | Jerub | because bosses are 72. |
| 06:52.01 | Amarande | 78 is pretty much like 67, then |
| 06:52.19 | Amarande | at 78, all the 80 dungeons go yellow and you have a 57.1428% chance of getting stuck with a dungeon with 82 bosses |
| 06:52.25 | *** join/#wowuidev L4x4t0r (~dada@AMontsouris-153-1-41-149.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 06:56.29 | Jerub | Amarande: i'm going to really enjoy that |
| 06:56.39 | Jerub | but uh, isn't that okay, that's not crushing blows. |
| 06:56.42 | Thrae | Can anything made from Non-Protected Addon space persist besides saved variables after /console reloadui? |
| 06:56.47 | Jerub | 77 would be crushing blows |
| 06:57.06 | WobWork | Thrae: I don't believe so |
| 06:57.28 | WobWork | Jerub: least bad for bears |
| 06:57.39 | WobWork | as they're techically already defcapped for their level |
| 06:57.48 | WobWork | which is hardly ever the case for non80 tanks |
| 06:58.02 | Thrae | WobWork: That's what I remember from Vanilla and that's what I thought. It should be a rather low-level reset. Hooks should be gone too. |
| 06:58.39 | Jerub | the formula changed for crushing blows in 3.0 |
| 06:59.36 | WobWork | but still.. a level 78 tank fighting 82 bosses... |
| 06:59.42 | WobWork | not the easiest job =P |
| 07:03.06 | *** part/#wowuidev Stew-a (~Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 07:09.47 | Jerub | i have not stopped tanking on my warrior since 30. |
| 07:10.02 | Jerub | level 68 now |
| 07:10.06 | Jerub | having /so/ much fun |
| 07:10.41 | tekkub | you've obviously taken a few too many blows to the head |
| 07:11.15 | Jerub | although, not as fun as yesterday. |
| 07:11.26 | Jerub | my shamman healed through bfd. |
| 07:11.59 | Jerub | with the hunter on follow, and only 10% of the screen visible, just enough to see my group's grid. |
| 07:12.19 | Jerub | in an intricately related note, i loved episode 5 of doctor who. |
| 07:13.07 | eidolarr | rewinding a little, when stuff comes out of the lexer, is it just a bunch of strings where each string is a token? |
| 07:13.12 | eidolarr | or is there more state to it than that |
| 07:13.24 | Jerub | eidolarr: sometimes the lexer gives you more information than that. |
| 07:13.51 | Jerub | depending on the lexer, it might give you things like an instance of Identifier or something. |
| 07:14.15 | eidolarr | hm ok |
| 07:14.16 | Jerub | depending on the object model clearly. |
| 07:16.20 | *** topic/#wowuidev by Cairenn -> http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ | 3.3.x ToC: 30300 | #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting | Blizzcon 2010 Oct 22 & 23! | 3.3.5 PTR Patch Notes are up: http://cot.ag/bY6mEm || This will NOT LOOK GOOD ON A RESUME! |
| 07:17.13 | Jerub | I've often wondered how to put #python on my resume. |
| 07:18.22 | WobWork | by placing the cursor appropriately, and striking the keys in the correct order? |
| 07:18.49 | *** join/#wowuidev myrkraverk (~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk) |
| 07:18.57 | WobWork | Cairenn: where did that topic come from? |
| 07:19.28 | Adys | Cairenn: wow, we totally changed topics in sync |
| 07:19.30 | Cairenn | The movie I'm watching. I'm waiting to see who all will get the reference, if anyone. |
| 07:20.01 | Adys | [08:16:10] *** Cairenn has changed the topic to: http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ | 3.3.x ToC: 30300 | #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting | Blizzcon 2010 Oct 22 & 23! | 3.3.5 PTR Patch Notes are up: http://cot.ag/bY6mEm || This will NOT LOOK GOOD ON A RESUME! |
| 07:20.02 | Adys | [08:16:15] *** Adys has changed the topic to: Welcome! | http://mmo-champion.com | News: Blue posts, MLG PC Circuit, Fan Arts - http://mmo-champion.com/news-2/blue-posts-mlg-pc-circuit-fan-arts/ | Don't cache me bro! |
| 07:20.11 | Cairenn | heh |
| 07:20.20 | WobWork | Goooooooood Morning, Cairrrrrrren |
| 07:20.22 | Jerub | according to searchirc.com/top100.php I run the 30th largest irc channel. |
| 07:20.28 | Cairenn | WobWork: good man! |
| 07:21.09 | Cairenn | Did you have to google it? |
| 07:21.16 | Adys | Jerub: #python may just be 30th in size, but the cockiness of the users may be way higher |
| 07:21.31 | Jerub | Adys: i dunno, i'm looking at the other channels above me |
| 07:21.44 | Adys | ive never heard of any of them |
| 07:21.46 | Adys | except #ubuntu |
| 07:21.54 | Jerub | gentoo, call of duty, warez channels, debian, ubuntu... |
| 07:22.05 | Adys | oh yea #debian too |
| 07:22.19 | Adys | most of this stuff is gaming chans |
| 07:23.16 | Thrae | Cairenn: I'm confused. A movie quote from Good Morning, Vietnam? |
| 07:23.22 | Cairenn | Thrae: yes |
| 07:23.31 | Thrae | What does this have to do with #python and other IRC channels? |
| 07:23.35 | Cairenn | Not a damn thing |
| 07:23.43 | Thrae | That's what I'm confused about. |
| 07:24.01 | Jerub | I was thinking about how #wowuidev would look on a resume ;) |
| 07:24.20 | Cairenn | The conversation about #python and other IRC channels started *after* I changed the topic |
| 07:24.48 | WobWork | lies |
| 07:24.51 | WobWork | before! |
| 07:24.51 | Thrae | Ah. I should really increase the size I devout to Gaming-related channels on irssi. |
| 07:25.02 | L4x4t0r | Anypeople playing SC2 ? |
| 07:25.04 | WobWork | no wait |
| 07:25.05 | WobWork | after |
| 07:25.08 | L4x4t0r | In goldleague if possible ? |
| 07:25.11 | WobWork | I blame Jerub |
| 07:25.17 | Cairenn | so, WobWork, you didn't answer me ... did you have to google it? |
| 07:25.25 | WobWork | oh I didn't see you ask |
| 07:25.55 | WobWork | Cairenn: yes I did =) It's been far too long since I watched that movie |
| 07:26.08 | Cairenn | Heh, that's cheating! |
| 07:26.12 | Thrae | Or maybe I can claim my brain was just hurt by trying to explain why WoW has never claimed more than 4GB of memory, especially on Windows. |
| 07:26.20 | *** join/#wowuidev jadakren (~airtonix@110-175-100-195.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 07:26.23 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (~airtonix@unaffiliated/airtonix) |
| 07:26.31 | Jerub | Thrae: addressing limitation? |
| 07:27.39 | Thrae | Jerub: For all 32-bit applications. On Windows, applications get a devoted 2GB and a shared 2GB (both virtual). They can be made PAE-aware using AWE but WoW doesn't use it, nor should it ever. |
| 07:27.58 | Jerub | figured. |
| 07:29.50 | Thrae | I actually have a problem with WoW where it tries to allocate more than 4GB after hours and hours of playing and I've been meaning to look it up. |
| 07:31.31 | Thrae | World of Warcraft is the only 32-bit application, including other MMOs, that have this problem, depsite me not really favouring WoW (on a weekly basis) more than other games. I have my memory clocked higher than standard but it's rated for it and passes tests. |
| 07:31.51 | Xinhuan | your wow is weird then |
| 07:31.54 | Thrae | I think it's a Windows Vista 64-bit and higher problem. |
| 07:31.57 | Xinhuan | perhaps you have a leaking addon? |
| 07:32.18 | Xinhuan | i've run wow for 2 weeks before without exiting and it never used more than 1.2gb |
| 07:32.26 | WobWork | puts a bucket under Thrae's cpu |
| 07:32.48 | Thrae | WobWork: Wrong resource ;) |
| 07:33.31 | Thrae | Xinhuan: Do you have 64-bit Windows Vista or 7 and also run at 2560x1600 with the highest settings? |
| 07:34.46 | Thrae | The higher settings make it happen more frequently, but I think it's a problem with WoW on 64-bit versions of Windows, since it's been happening for a long time. Just less frequently now with the latest engine since WotLK. |
| 07:35.27 | WobWork | I use those settings, Thrae |
| 07:35.41 | Corrodias2 | how would it differ, i wonder, when played on a 64 bit OS? |
| 07:35.42 | WobWork | I haven't noticed overusage, but I don't run it for days at a time |
| 07:35.55 | Xinhuan | i am using win7-64 |
| 07:36.05 | Xinhuan | i don't run at that resolution though lol |
| 07:36.13 | WobWork | Corrodias2: more RAM available? =) |
| 07:36.14 | Thrae | Specifically the error message generated by the WoW client is that it's trying to allocate more than 4GB after exhausting available memory. Which it shouldn't do anyway. |
| 07:36.18 | Xinhuan | i use 2x 17" |
| 07:36.21 | Xinhuan | which aren't widescreen |
| 07:36.26 | WobWork | I've never encountered that |
| 07:36.40 | Jerub | I run wow in a window. |
| 07:36.47 | Jerub | on a 1152x something monitor |
| 07:36.56 | WobWork | this ^ |
| 07:37.13 | Jerub | also! I have a question |
| 07:37.20 | Jerub | I cannot see consecration or death&decay |
| 07:37.24 | Thrae | As do I, Jerub. Which means I don't use D3D Exclusive Mode, which could also be an issue. |
| 07:37.33 | Jerub | and fiddling my knobs for settings, I don't know how to make it show |
| 07:37.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (~Srosh@d057220.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 07:38.03 | Xinhuan | googled for the problem? |
| 07:38.20 | Adys | nevcairiel: ping |
| 07:38.22 | Jerub | Xinhuan: no, i jumped on irc first thing without googling. |
| 07:38.52 | Thrae | Weird, Consencration is PBAOE and Death & Decay is GTAOE. Shouldn't they be controlled by different settings, or does WoW not differentiate? |
| 07:39.03 | Arrowmaster | Jerub: hmm seems its dropped a lot since then but i 'took over' a channel that would have been at least in the top 15 of that list at the time |
| 07:39.06 | Thrae | Jerub: Can you see your own PBAOE and GTAOE effects, and/or is this just those two spells? |
| 07:39.14 | Adys | Thrae: "setting" as in? |
| 07:39.31 | WobWork | PB? GT? |
| 07:39.38 | Adys | pointblank/ground targeted |
| 07:39.43 | WobWork | ah |
| 07:40.10 | Adys | Thrae: the only difference wow makes between PB and GT is whether or not it should show a targeting circle before casting |
| 07:40.30 | Thrae | Adys: Shouldn't one of the WoW settings turn off showing GTAOE before it turns off showing PBAOE? |
| 07:40.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@dsl4E5C0251.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 07:40.49 | Jerub | what's.. GTAEO? |
| 07:40.56 | Adys | graphics have nothing to do with it, once the spell is cast, it creates the aoe at a given point in space |
| 07:41.12 | Thrae | Ground-Target AoE (Death & Decay is ONE example) and Point-Blank AoE (Consencration is ONE example) |
| 07:41.14 | Adys | ground targeted aoe, Jerub |
| 07:41.16 | Adys | like blizzard |
| 07:41.24 | Thrae | Adys: We're talking graphics settings here... |
| 07:41.32 | Adys | Thrae: exactly. the graphics don't know what type of aoe it is |
| 07:41.54 | Adys | the only difference wow makes is in the targeting of the aoe, before the spell is cast |
| 07:41.56 | Thrae | Adys: Well that's stupid of the engine. |
| 07:42.01 | Adys | ... why? |
| 07:42.24 | Adys | a graphics engine should never know about specifics of the game |
| 07:43.00 | Adys | and if i suddenly decide i want a spell that lets me GT a consecration, I shouldnt have to code a different effect for it |
| 07:43.06 | Adys | i should just switch a flag |
| 07:43.44 | Trela | This is actually a really good PA comic. http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/5/17/my-pedipalps/ |
| 07:44.14 | Thrae | Adys: I'm talking throttling. There are legitimate reasons you may want to see PBAOE effects on your own character but not GTAOE effects (or seriously lower their quality), especially since in first-person you can't even see the entire radius of the graphical effect of PBAOE. |
| 07:44.39 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (~bluspacec@60-234-165-167.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) |
| 07:44.45 | Adys | so what if you move? |
| 07:45.05 | bluspacecow | !seen Shifki |
| 07:45.16 | Adys | ~seen shifky |
| 07:45.19 | purl | i haven't seen 'shifky', Adys |
| 07:45.19 | Adys | ~seen shifki |
| 07:45.20 | purl | i haven't seen 'shifki', Adys |
| 07:45.34 | Adys | ~seen shefki |
| 07:45.35 | purl | shefki is currently on #wowace (3d 4h 25m 56s). Has said a total of 20 messages. Is idling for 40m 1s, last said: 'mitch0: #'. |
| 07:45.42 | Thrae | Adys: So...what if you move? |
| 07:45.51 | Adys | Thrae: if you move you can see it :P |
| 07:45.52 | bluspacecow | thanks ! |
| 07:46.03 | bluspacecow | *facepalm* |
| 07:46.11 | bluspacecow | forgot to turn in my JC daily yesterday ! |
| 07:46.20 | Adys | you can disable a lot of aoe effects |
| 07:46.30 | Adys | but it's agnostic on the owner of the spell and the type of aoe it is |
| 07:46.39 | Adys | it's controlled in spell details and ground spell details |
| 07:48.52 | Thrae | Adys: Not in first person view. Anyway, PBAOEs are always centered on the caster so you only have to not stare at the caster to reduce the effect, while GTAOEs are usually centered on the target (one you probably share in a group situation). |
| 07:51.03 | Thrae | Adys: Of course you wouldn't see this in a PvE Raid battle on WoW, and overall WoW's AoE effects are not as over-the-top as even some older engines (like DAoC), so they may have neglected it since it's trivial. |
| 07:51.26 | Thrae | I said it was stupid of the engine, not stupid of Blizzard ;) |
| 07:53.19 | Thrae | Epic-scale PvP battles where PBAOE and GTAOE effects with high particle density from bombing is where it can get messy in MMOs, but WoW doesn't really have either of that (Spirit Bombs or Epic-Scale PvP). |
| 07:57.30 | industrial | so I bumped into an error message at work; Hit any programmer to continue |
| 07:57.50 | industrial | apparrently they also have the same error but with accountmanager in there somewhere :P |
| 07:58.05 | industrial | easter eggs! |
| 07:58.30 | Arrowmaster | did you hit one to continue? |
| 08:01.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan (~pancake@cpe-174-098-002-214.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 08:02.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 08:09.35 | bluspacecow | "industrial: so I bumped into an error message at work; Hit any programmer to continue" this is why i love you industrial |
| 08:10.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (~Kaso@89.240.5.140) |
| 08:10.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 08:14.05 | Fisker | slaps Arrowmaster around a bit with a large trout |
| 08:19.59 | Adys | jnwhiteh: ping |
| 08:20.37 | Adys | jnwhiteh: when you wake up, the bullet-point format widget on the edit field doesnt work properly: http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/GetExpansionLevel |
| 08:21.46 | tekkub | rawr! |
| 08:22.04 | tekkub | if you can't follow a simple set of instructions... I question that you're really a programmer |
| 08:22.34 | Adys | wut |
| 08:22.58 | tekkub | tek support rage |
| 08:24.10 | Antiarc | ARGH |
| 08:24.13 | Antiarc | WARLOCKS |
| 08:24.19 | Antiarc | warlock/druid is the worst team ever |
| 08:24.31 | Antiarc | fear fear fear cyclone cyclone cyclone fear fear fear repeat to infinity |
| 08:25.28 | Fisker | hey Antiarc |
| 08:26.19 | Fisker | :( |
| 08:26.55 | bluspacecow | what tek support page ? |
| 08:28.26 | tekkub | github |
| 08:28.36 | bluspacecow | lolz just ribbing ya |
| 08:28.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@pool028.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 08:28.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 08:28.48 | Antiarc | hey Fisker |
| 08:28.50 | Antiarc | do you play a warlock |
| 08:33.40 | Torhal | Antiarc: Fisker's toon is named Fiskerdin. Guess what that is. |
| 08:33.49 | Antiarc | I am aware that he plays a paladin :P |
| 08:33.55 | Antiarc | I just wondered if he also played a warlock |
| 08:34.00 | Antiarc | I have a raging hatred for warlocks right now |
| 08:34.06 | Torhal | Probably only in real life. |
| 08:34.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano_ (~elkano@pool037.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 08:34.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano_ (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 08:36.24 | Arrowmaster | Antiarc: hi! |
| 08:37.26 | *** join/#wowuidev [Wobin] (~Wobin@203-214-143-109.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 08:38.07 | Antiarc | hey |
| 08:39.39 | Thrae | I really need to re-bell my cat, although it may not help. She has now shown me that live baby birds are grosser than dead baby birds, and neither did I need to know. |
| 08:39.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Legorol (~legorol@cpc8-sgyl28-2-0-cust43.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 08:39.45 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Legorol] by ChanServ |
| 08:40.24 | Arrowmaster | Thrae: aww presents |
| 08:43.33 | Corrodias2 | cats can learn to hunt even with bells, as far as i know. maybe only some cats. |
| 08:43.45 | Fisker | no Antiarc |
| 08:43.53 | tekkub | what you need to do is blowhorn your cat |
| 08:43.54 | Fisker | well actually i have a level 49 warlock |
| 08:43.55 | Fisker | btw Antiarc |
| 08:43.56 | Corrodias2 | we had a cat who hunted birds without any front claws. presumably with a reduced success rate, but it worked sometimes. |
| 08:43.59 | Fisker | giev 2.2 infos |
| 08:44.01 | tekkub | they never learn to hunt with that |
| 08:46.04 | Fisker | i hunt u |
| 08:58.28 | airtonix | tekkub, dont confuse lack of claws with lack of paws |
| 08:58.57 | Fisker | it's also gibberish jnwhiteh |
| 08:59.09 | airtonix | a half tonne cat batting you like a ninja throwing punches is still a half tonne cat punching you |
| 08:59.16 | Fisker | wotlk clients can login on classic, tbc and wotlk accounts |
| 09:05.58 | [Wobin] | lol@oglaf |
| 09:06.06 | Torhal | Indeed - I had the client for TBC installed months before I enabled the expansion on my account. |
| 09:08.04 | Wobin | oho! |
| 09:08.05 | Wobin | http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/12/asus-eeekeyboard-shipping-out-now/ |
| 09:12.30 | industrial | they should have put the display in the center |
| 09:15.28 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (~nuoHep@83.220.61.106) |
| 09:18.28 | Fisker | i came Wobin ? |
| 09:18.51 | Wobin | checks the floor |
| 09:18.53 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (spode@213.21.119.83) |
| 09:18.55 | Wobin | Doesn't look like it |
| 09:18.57 | Wobin | try harder |
| 09:26.48 | Fisker | Adys etc? |
| 09:27.03 | Fisker | Didn't you have a section on the db with mails and stuff? |
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| 09:39.45 | zenzelezz | "The Fox News report apparently relied on a single unnamed source" |
| 09:39.53 | zenzelezz | isn't that how Fox News always operates? |
| 09:43.46 | olafski | source? |
| 09:43.50 | olafski | what be that mon |
| 09:47.16 | Wobin | Fox News has sources? |
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| 10:07.41 | Amarande | yay, that's it for Dragonblight |
| 10:07.50 | Amarande | except for some group quests which don't seem to yet be soloable at my level and gear :S |
| 10:08.10 | olafski | weren't you like lvl 75? |
| 10:08.27 | olafski | hm there are a couple of quite hard group quests there actually, especially as horde |
| 10:11.11 | Amarande | 78 now actually |
| 10:11.23 | Amarande | seems like they're actually getting to be harder on the DK than on the lock |
| 10:14.45 | zenzelezz | some of the magnataur can be tough |
| 10:15.06 | olafski | at 78? :s |
| 10:15.18 | olafski | the one with the ice is tough if you don't know that you have to run away when he casts |
| 10:17.13 | Amarande | hmm, what did I have left |
| 10:17.29 | olafski | that frost dragon is kinda tough for horde |
| 10:17.41 | olafski | though I only tried that at 73 and abandoned it when I found I couldn't solo it |
| 10:18.41 | Amarande | Abbendis (OMG FUCKING PALLY), Dreadtalon (who I never passed by on any of my quest circuits), Gigantaur (who I just *barely* failed to solo), the Really Big Worm (who crits for 3000+ even on PLATE!), the bird boss (maybe could have done it, but didn't want to waste the time to bother), and Sarathstra (who I somehow managed to miss the quest to kill entirely) |
| 10:19.28 | olafski | dreadtalon shouldn't be too bad |
| 10:19.37 | olafski | and alystros neither, you have death strike - abuse it :P |
| 10:22.38 | Amarande | yeah, it was mainly that I never met Dreadtalon |
| 10:22.51 | Amarande | and going out of your way to do a single quest with no follow up and no useful rewards is kind of a silly thing to do |
| 10:24.20 | olafski | xp |
| 10:24.30 | olafski | but you seem to disregard that point quite often :P |
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| 11:55.41 | Fisker | Antiarc why can't you stop me? |
| 11:56.14 | Elkano | he got no op ;) |
| 11:58.41 | industrial | You know what would be nice |
| 11:59.22 | industrial | a firebug feature with the existing element inspect funationality to provide a bit of javascript for selecting that particular element with prototype or jQuery |
| 11:59.32 | industrial | click, copy, paste, go :P |
| 12:04.14 | zenzelezz | select it how? |
| 12:05.33 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 12:18.33 | Kaso | The problem is there is a very large number of ways to select a particular element in a page, how'd you choose which one to use? |
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| 12:52.55 | zenzelezz | hrm... where do you learn the Darnassus teleport spells? |
| 12:53.05 | olafski | in darnassus :o |
| 12:53.18 | olafski | next to the portal to blasted lands is someone called portal trainer =) |
| 12:53.27 | olafski | (must be lvl 50 I think) |
| 12:53.49 | zenzelezz | hm, where's that? I went to the mage trainer by Tyrande, since the portal trainers in Ironforge and Stormwind were all next to their trainers |
| 12:54.03 | olafski | bottom level of the sanctuary of the moon or whatever it's called |
| 12:54.13 | zenzelezz | blinks |
| 12:54.20 | zenzelezz | I should've seen that one |
| 12:54.25 | olafski | found it? good =) |
| 12:54.43 | zenzelezz | the teleport required level 30, the portal 50 |
| 12:54.50 | zenzelezz | cheers |
| 12:54.53 | olafski | http://www.wowhead.com/search?q=portal+trainer :-) |
| 12:55.02 | olafski | yeah, no clue why they did that |
| 12:55.21 | olafski | I can understand theramore requiring a higher level for some reason.. but why should one city have a higher level than the others, it's not as if darnassus was a popular city to begin with :P |
| 12:55.43 | zenzelezz | yeah, for Stormwind and Ironforge both were 20/40 IIRC |
| 12:55.52 | olafski | aye, exodar too I think |
| 12:56.13 | zenzelezz | ooh, cheers, I almost forgot Exodar |
| 12:57.00 | zenzelezz | at level 49 now, just set foot in Kalimdor for the first time (on this char)... tried to do only EK, but seemed to be a lack of ~45-50 quests |
| 12:57.50 | olafski | mm.. just one more level then you can do western plaguelands =0 |
| 12:57.58 | Fisker | argh zenzelezz |
| 12:58.01 | Fisker | you're killing me |
| 12:58.07 | zenzelezz | yeah, I'm going back soon, just need one or two levels |
| 12:58.38 | Fisker | http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/17/htc-mondrian-with-1-3ghz-snapdragon-detailed-in-leaked-windows-p/ <-want this, just for android instead |
| 13:00.56 | Fisker | do it zenzelezz |
| 13:01.00 | Fisker | or i might just kill you |
| 13:03.03 | Dagmar | YOu definitely don't want any part of that Windows OS on your phone |
| 13:03.24 | Dagmar | It's really goddamn clear from this 800w that Microsoft doesn't have a f**king clue what they're doing with phones |
| 13:03.55 | Wobin | woo |
| 13:04.03 | Wobin | Got neck, belt and staff in that ICC10 run |
| 13:04.08 | zenzelezz | Dagmar: is that Windows Mobile 7 or 6.5? |
| 13:04.10 | Wobin | http://www.wowhead.com/item=50966 ! |
| 13:04.17 | Dagmar | zenzelezz: 6.0 |
| 13:04.29 | Dagmar | ....but we might as well be talking about Windows 2. |
| 13:04.54 | Dagmar | The best they can hope to do at this point, being that they never released a single f**king update for the phone, will be Windows 98 |
| 13:04.56 | zenzelezz | Dagmar: from what I understand, all 6 are bad. Not going to say I believe 7 will be better, but they seem to be really redoing it |
| 13:05.29 | zenzelezz | we had some phone with Windows Mobile at work, and old phone, no idea what version the OS was... but none of us could find a way to turn it off |
| 13:05.33 | Dagmar | Their "kin" app isn't going to save them |
| 13:05.35 | Dagmar | The phone will be shit |
| 13:05.46 | Dagmar | zenzelezz: Here's the shocker, you can't. |
| 13:05.59 | Dagmar | They decided it would be a "feature" that you have to take the fucking battery out |
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| 13:06.30 | Dagmar | <-- not joking |
| 13:08.23 | Dagmar | There are levels of stupid in this product of theirs that I cannot even *guess* about |
| 13:09.17 | Dagmar | Like, one of the phone's favorite games to play is to sometimes turn on the screen for a few minutes, every few minutes, all night long until the battery is dead, when there are no voicemails, text messages, signal changes, or other "beacon" messages |
| 13:09.44 | Dagmar | This'll generally suck down 3/4 of the battery, which will otherwise hang around for two days without a charge |
| 13:10.23 | Dagmar | If you try to use an automated phone system with it, you will learn that god hates you. |
| 13:10.56 | Dagmar | You can't hope to push the number buttons on the phone with it to your ear, and if you turn on the on-screen dialing pad you have another problem... |
| 13:11.41 | Dagmar | ...you probably already had the touchscreen *dusabled* while on calls so the phone won't launch every app under the sun off your ear. |
| 13:12.26 | Dagmar | Running the dialpad program _doesn't_ re-enable the touchscreen. |
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| 13:13.34 | Dagmar | It's IE is possibly the only thing that compete with the Nintendo DS browser for being "stupefyingly slow" |
| 13:14.58 | Dagmar | The only answer I can find to all this is that perhaps, the division of Microsoft that came up with Windows Mobile are a group of people who have actually never used a cell phone themselves, and have no intention of buying one either. |
| 13:15.54 | zenzelezz | heh |
| 13:17.13 | Lopeppeppy | got a Pick of the Week! Happy Day! |
| 13:19.34 | Dagmar | The *only* reason I have not thrown this phone into the dumpster for something else is that it actually has *wifi* on it |
| 13:21.01 | Dagmar | THe pre/pixi have that, but it doesn't really do you much good since the cellphone companies talked Palm into making the phone itself require you activate with a data plan or it just won't work |
| 13:21.13 | Dagmar | Someone should class action over that |
| 13:21.50 | ZorbaBeta | there would be no grounds whatsoever for a class action suit |
| 13:22.02 | Dagmar | Yeah there would actually. |
| 13:22.30 | Dagmar | Verizon got themselves into a nice big fine for the screwing around they did with the first Bluetooth phones |
| 13:22.37 | ZorbaBeta | "there's this phone that I'm not forced to buy, but if I buy it anyway I can't choose a specific cellphone plan"? |
| 13:23.14 | Dagmar | All of Motorola's ads promised all this bluetooth functionality that required no action from the cell phone provider at all, like punting photos to a nearby bluetooth printer, etc |
| 13:23.25 | Dagmar | Verizon's ads reiterated this. |
| 13:23.55 | Dagmar | Yet they shipped it with a firmware that took all this functionality out, and forced you to use cdpd and a data plan to get the photos out |
| 13:24.04 | ZorbaBeta | do pre/pixi ads do something similar? false advertising is a different matter entirely from "I want a subscription model that they don't want to support" |
| 13:24.34 | Dagmar | They show you what amounts to a *PDA* and then some level of functionality |
| 13:24.55 | Dagmar | ...but without a data plan, you can't use it. |
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| 13:25.31 | ZorbaBeta | yeah, I dunno. it's a cellphone, not a PDA, and I suspect it's marketed as a cellphone, not a PDA |
| 13:26.14 | Dagmar | I am literally *always* near wifi. |
| 13:27.12 | Dagmar | I have looked at their dev stuff... I could code things for that phone and like it, so it fairly well pisses me off |
| 13:27.57 | Dagmar | The Android phones don't seem to have this bit of enforced mental retardation |
| 13:28.31 | Dagmar | Pretty sure I can thank Google for that |
| 13:28.44 | Dagmar | My next phone will be android |
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| 13:30.19 | Dagmar | I'd like to think the FCC might do something soon, but they're a bit busy with Comcast at the moment |
| 13:31.00 | Dagmar | One provider has now gone so far as to require an extra special $7/month additional fee on one of their new phones |
| 13:31.14 | Lopeppeppy | This is why I want to go back to handwritten notes! |
| 13:32.11 | Dagmar | The argument they use to justify this crap is that it "confuses" customers when a phone without a data plan "accidentally" goes online and incurs >$1/k charges |
| 13:32.32 | Dagmar | Clearly, from the crap I had to do to it, the Palm 800 was intended to *not* let you turn this off |
| 13:32.58 | Dagmar | The Pre runs Linux. THere is literally no way they could stop me from keeping it off the cell network if I had oen |
| 13:35.05 | Dagmar | So basically, they're selling a device whose core and bulk functionality (in part because it *has* wifi!) doesn't actually require a data plan for any reason other than "we say so" |
| 13:35.37 | Dagmar | Pretty much the exact same situation Verizon lost over |
| 13:35.37 | olafski | so don't buy it :< |
| 13:39.19 | zenzelezz | this is why I like being able to buy phones without any mobile plan at all. Sure, it's more expensive, but over a year you'd pay that for whatever subscription the provider put you on anyway; and you can instead go with an almost-nothing plan from the provider of your choice |
| 13:42.00 | Wobin | this ^ |
| 13:48.02 | Wobin | http://hypolib.typepad.com/the-hypothetical-library/2010/05/neil-gaiman.html |
| 13:48.04 | Wobin | awesome =) |
| 13:49.44 | olafski | so much text =( |
| 13:49.47 | olafski | I do like neil gaiman though |
| 13:50.05 | Wobin | olafski, ironically, it's about a book that will never ever exist |
| 13:53.03 | olafski | aye I read it after all.. never thought I'd read so much text today |
| 13:56.49 | mikma | "a blind man walks by a fishmarket and says: good morning ladies!" |
| 13:57.34 | krka | because women primarily visit fishmarkets, or because the vendors were female at that fishmarket? |
| 13:57.43 | olafski | krka: ;( |
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| 14:14.44 | Wobin | Cairenn|afk, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYTJ9v2vsaE |
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| 14:25.17 | Adys | Fisker: i do |
| 14:25.24 | Adys | http://db.mmo-champion.com/mails |
| 14:26.27 | Kaso | Thats cool |
| 14:26.56 | Kaso | learn a new thing in db.mmo-champ every day |
| 14:27.28 | Ackis | keylogger site!!!! |
| 14:27.37 | Adys | idd |
| 14:28.09 | Lopeppeppy | Yay, I haven't had my keys logged in a day or two! |
| 14:28.29 | Adys | Lopeppeppy: I'm currently logging your keys |
| 14:28.35 | Adys | I can tell you what you just wrote |
| 14:28.36 | Lopeppeppy | Rawr, baby |
| 14:29.14 | Ackis | she just wrote "Rawr, baby" |
| 14:29.23 | Adys | I know, I told you Im logging her keys |
| 14:29.39 | Ackis | apparently there was a dead body discovered about half a block away from where I work |
| 14:29.55 | Lopeppeppy | Uncouth. |
| 14:30.06 | Ackis | I didn't do it |
| 14:30.11 | msoul | Did anyone got his hands on alan wake? |
| 14:30.31 | msoul | s,got,get |
| 14:32.25 | Ackis | actually, if the body was found next week, I'd be able to see the body from my office window |
| 14:32.31 | Ackis | "Deceased still lying face down on stairs @ McDougall Hill, just south of Hotel Mac" |
| 14:32.45 | Cide | accessibility fail Adys |
| 14:33.01 | Cide | there are no navigation buttons at the bottom |
| 14:33.14 | Adys | mm thought i added those |
| 14:33.18 | Adys | ill fix that |
| 14:33.39 | Cide | unrelated, http://db.mmo-champion.com/mail/167/unused/ |
| 14:33.45 | Cide | s/un// |
| 14:33.48 | Adys | VIAGRAWIN |
| 14:33.49 | Adys | and yeah |
| 14:34.35 | Adys | http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2010/05/derren-brown-investigates-tonight-10pm-ch4/ |
| 14:38.38 | Kaso | on the mails link earlier |
| 14:38.50 | Kaso | on firefox when i scroll up and down using scroll bar it seems choppy |
| 14:39.21 | Kaso | Thats like the most vague complaint ever |
| 14:39.23 | Kaso | but yeah |
| 14:39.48 | Adys | it's a very accurate complaint imo |
| 14:39.57 | Adys | I can easily pinpoint the issue from that |
| 14:40.04 | Adys | here is the keyword that helped: "Firefox" |
| 14:40.15 | foxlit | Yo, Fisker. |
| 14:40.22 | foxlit | Why is DF putting adorable kittens on busses? |
| 14:40.31 | Kaso | lol |
| 14:40.34 | Adys | If someone mentions chrome i might be able to pinpoint a solution too |
| 14:41.36 | Kaso | Adys: if it were chrome it'd be easier to pinpoint due its awesome profiler, i dunno if firefox has anything similar that can let you see where rendering time is going live. :( But yeah it feels as if some styling or something is causing painful redraws on scrolling |
| 14:41.50 | Kaso | but what you have seems to be pretty basic table styling so idunno |
| 14:42.02 | Adys | try scrolling without hovering the table |
| 14:42.14 | Adys | and give me your graphic card/driver version |
| 14:44.12 | Kaso | I was scrolling using the side scroll bar, so no hovering. Mac OS X 10.6, ATI Radeon HD 2400, Firefox/3.6 |
| 14:44.19 | Kaso | and whatever driver mac gives me, dunno |
| 14:44.30 | Adys | ATI, Firefox |
| 14:44.35 | Adys | what else is wrong with your setup |
| 14:45.22 | Kaso | lol |
| 14:45.27 | Kaso | mac i guess? |
| 14:45.54 | Adys | thats fine |
| 14:46.14 | Gintaro | Firefox works fine here! |
| 14:46.28 | Gintaro | But I'm a ricer so I had gentoo compile it for me |
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| 15:08.00 | airtonix | Adys, you make db.mmochampion ? |
| 15:08.08 | Adys | yes, why? |
| 15:08.29 | airtonix | why no class attributes? |
| 15:08.37 | Adys | what do you mean? |
| 15:09.25 | airtonix | i suspect what is your main template only uses id attributes |
| 15:09.46 | Adys | ive no idea what you mean :P |
| 15:09.53 | airtonix | view source |
| 15:09.56 | airtonix | http://db.mmo-champion.com/mail/167/unused/ |
| 15:10.06 | Adys | yeah? |
| 15:10.09 | airtonix | or inspect element |
| 15:10.17 | Adys | which element? :P |
| 15:10.22 | airtonix | all of them |
| 15:10.33 | airtonix | you only use class on the body |
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| 15:10.44 | Adys | um, no i dont |
| 15:10.51 | Kaso | Adys: -moz-box-shadow |
| 15:10.59 | airtonix | incomign spam |
| 15:11.01 | Kaso | apparently firefox is shit at rendering box shadows |
| 15:11.02 | Adys | Kaso: yeah, know it |
| 15:11.03 | Adys | knew it* |
| 15:11.17 | Adys | airtonix: i use id where it's used only once in the page and the element is unique |
| 15:11.22 | Adys | i use class where the element may not be unique |
| 15:12.39 | foxlit | How do I fix grid's silly one-size-fits-all battleground behavior? |
| 15:12.53 | airtonix | and you have inline style and script blocks |
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| 15:13.16 | Kaso | changes default stylesheet to remove -moz-box-shadow |
| 15:13.58 | Adys | Kaso: dont bother, Ill do that |
| 15:14.00 | airtonix | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/180039/screenshots/Screenshot.png |
| 15:14.16 | Adys | airtonix: i have inline styles only where they're needed (for the id counts |
| 15:14.31 | Adys | why do you think those should be classes? |
| 15:14.44 | airtonix | its not my query |
| 15:14.55 | airtonix | im querying you why they are id |
| 15:15.10 | Adys | a class in dom is a styling attribute given to an element that can be repeated throughout the page |
| 15:15.26 | Adys | an id is a core attribute of an element that identifies it uniquely in the page |
| 15:15.41 | Adys | in this case, there is only one content, one sitenav, one content-header, one infobox, etc |
| 15:15.56 | airtonix | i dont think some browsers support "-" in id names |
| 15:16.03 | Adys | sure they do. |
| 15:20.01 | airtonix | ahh ok my parting point here is then |
| 15:20.10 | airtonix | for every element you put an id on |
| 15:20.53 | airtonix | it creates a unique javascript object, which is seperate from the dom object.... not sure if this has changed |
| 15:21.00 | Adys | what |
| 15:21.02 | Ackis | Fisker: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCEQZ_4V7NY |
| 15:21.06 | Ackis | is that you? |
| 15:21.30 | airtonix | i think this is why somewhere i-ve fallen into the habbit of just using class names |
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| 15:22.05 | airtonix | because i can also stack multplie names in a class to make an element both unqiuely identifiable and part of numerous groups |
| 15:22.20 | Adys | i think a better habbit would be using decent browsers supporting basic dom operations without leaking memory |
| 15:22.32 | airtonix | no |
| 15:22.43 | airtonix | having an id on an object is the feature |
| 15:22.44 | Adys | getElementByID is the most efficient dom traversal shortcut |
| 15:22.54 | airtonix | that it creates a top level javascript object |
| 15:23.12 | Wobin | Ackis, wow. I've only watched maybe 30 seconds of him |
| 15:23.13 | airtonix | thats the point |
| 15:23.19 | airtonix | your not traversing anything |
| 15:23.21 | Wobin | and I already want to smash him in the face with a rake |
| 15:23.35 | Adys | what are you on about. id makes sure the element is indexed |
| 15:23.43 | Ackis | Wobin: you need to watch the whole thing, I found it amusing (PS: Rate my comment up!) |
| 15:23.43 | Adys | how the browser implements that is up to them |
| 15:23.53 | Adys | if it's leaking memory, big fail for them |
| 15:24.27 | Wobin | he's like the epitome of entitlement fuckwit =P |
| 15:24.53 | Wobin | I couldn't watch more |
| 15:25.06 | Wobin | he's also a good example of why you shouldn't liveblog things =P |
| 15:26.29 | airtonix | wobin, hes not a personal computer gamer -) |
| 15:27.16 | Wobin | airtonix, and thus makes him a perfect critic for games! |
| 15:27.18 | Wobin | ... right? |
| 15:27.22 | Wobin | RIGHT? |
| 15:27.35 | airtonix | that thing infront of him is a nuclear fission engine |
| 15:27.36 | Ackis | airtonix: the issue is some of his "issues" are just with not knowing what's going on and assuming it's steam's fault... it's user error for most of it and then the other part looks like his computer is a piece of junk |
| 15:27.46 | Adys | every time i look at a tree in wow, i weep |
| 15:27.58 | Wobin | grah |
| 15:28.07 | Wobin | there are too many A* nicknames speaking here atm =( |
| 15:28.26 | Wobin | thank you =) |
| 15:28.35 | Guest12345 | hi airtonix :) |
| 15:29.06 | Guest12345 | you helped me here about a week ago :D |
| 15:29.13 | Ackis | lol Bawdys |
| 15:29.25 | Bawdys | why should i be the one changing nick |
| 15:29.26 | Bawdys | :( |
| 15:29.26 | Ackis | I think the biggest complaint is people thinking Ackis == Adys |
| 15:29.38 | Bawdys | yeah we definitely dont want that to happen |
| 15:29.40 | Wobin | complaint or complement? |
| 15:30.01 | Adys | hai |
| 15:30.04 | Adys | I like mudkipz |
| 15:30.54 | Bawdys | any lvl 80 logged in live? |
| 15:31.00 | Bawdys | and near a questgiver |
| 15:31.19 | Ackis | I would help you but I don't know you |
| 15:31.26 | Adys | screw you |
| 15:31.32 | Ackis | lol |
| 15:31.40 | airtonix | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz7bUWdYntk |
| 15:31.40 | Ackis | I don't have WoW :P |
| 15:31.48 | airtonix | ahh perma ban |
| 15:31.57 | Ackis | nope |
| 15:32.01 | Ackis | just stopped playing last year |
| 15:32.10 | airtonix | thats what .... |
| 15:32.22 | Ackis | my choice not blizzards :P |
| 15:32.36 | airtonix | first stage is denial |
| 15:32.43 | Kaso | I think one of you two should be forced to use a lower case A Adys Ackis , i suggest a fight to the death to decide who gets to keep the captial |
| 15:32.43 | Ackis | lol |
| 15:33.04 | Ackis | I should go with Ackys amiright? |
| 15:33.16 | airtonix | yackis |
| 15:33.28 | airtonix | or Jack Brown |
| 15:34.14 | Wobin | adkis! |
| 15:34.28 | airtonix | Adookin! |
| 15:37.26 | cog|away | http://www.tiffanyard.com/ohCOOL/scientificmethod.htm |
| 15:38.44 | Kaso | cute |
| 15:42.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (~Lunessa@WoWUIDev/Lunessa) |
| 15:42.20 | cog|away | euSTATION tube |
| 15:42.22 | Lunessa | station! |
| 15:42.48 | Lopeppeppy | Morning dear. |
| 15:43.31 | Lunessa | And how is everyone this cheery day? |
| 15:43.53 | cog|away | $300 poorer thanks to dog knocking himself silly |
| 15:43.56 | Lopeppeppy | Cold! Turn the heats back on! |
| 15:44.01 | Lopeppeppy | cogwheel, how is the puppy? |
| 15:44.20 | cogwheel | he's doing a lot better today... eating, chasing cats away from his food, etc. |
| 15:44.47 | Lunessa | Did he run into a wall at superspeed or something? |
| 15:44.51 | cogwheel | the swelling has gone down quite a bit |
| 15:44.55 | Lopeppeppy | The cats beat him up. |
| 15:44.59 | cogwheel | we don't really know :( |
| 15:45.15 | cogwheel | but the cats are certainly a likely explanation |
| 15:45.32 | Lopeppeppy | Had that happen to the cat of a friend of mine... she had no idea what happened, figures the doofus fell down off something high. |
| 15:45.58 | cogwheel | the first symptoms were bloodshot puffy eyes so we figured it was his allergies acting up |
| 15:46.22 | cogwheel | but when the prednisone didn't help we took him to the vet. His eyes actually looked like O o |
| 15:47.30 | Adys | wth is RegisterStaticConstants() in wow? |
| 15:47.59 | Cide | sounds like function leak |
| 15:48.22 | Ackis | cogwheel: I read your status updates about the dog =/ |
| 15:49.29 | Ackis | when I was younger, my dog came running in from outside, misjudged a corner and ran full blast into a wall |
| 15:49.29 | Ackis | he lived |
| 15:49.29 | Ackis | and it was funny |
| 15:49.29 | Lopeppeppy | Poor fuzzy monster, I'm sorry he wasn't feeling well. |
| 15:49.29 | Wobin | Ackis, I've done that |
| 15:49.33 | Ackis | Wobin: sober? |
| 15:49.45 | Wobin | yeah =( |
| 15:49.53 | Wobin | I ended up with 7 stitches in my forehead |
| 15:50.02 | Wobin | I was about 6 =P |
| 15:50.03 | Ackis | ouch |
| 15:50.08 | Ackis | I have stitches in my head |
| 15:50.11 | Ackis | and face |
| 15:50.16 | Ackis | sucks tbh |
| 15:51.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Matsy (~Matsy@dhcp-077-250-131-125.chello.nl) |
| 15:52.10 | Lopeppeppy | You have them now? |
| 15:52.58 | Ackis | err no |
| 15:53.02 | Ackis | have == had |
| 15:53.03 | Ackis | my bad |
| 15:55.11 | Ackis | for some reason I'm having issues spelling physician today |
| 15:55.20 | Ackis | I keep wanting to spell it physican |
| 15:55.48 | Shirik | hahaha |
| 15:55.52 | Shirik | now has a 1GB photo |
| 15:55.58 | Matsy | of what? |
| 15:56.04 | Shirik | panorama |
| 15:56.22 | Ackis | heh 2 of my co-workers have updated their facebook statuses about how they can see the body from the murder |
| 15:56.22 | Wobin | you should print it as a wallpaper |
| 15:56.24 | Wobin | for your room |
| 15:56.28 | Matsy | oh! |
| 15:56.30 | Matsy | Shirik |
| 15:56.34 | Matsy | I made that as well! |
| 15:56.42 | Matsy | From the roof of my house |
| 15:56.49 | Matsy | And blended it together with photosynth |
| 15:57.01 | Matsy | blended / blent(sp?) |
| 15:57.02 | batbot | Matsy, blent is correct. |
| 15:57.12 | Wobin | noooo it isn't =P |
| 15:57.14 | Shirik | uh |
| 15:57.15 | airtonix | lol+ |
| 15:57.17 | Shirik | blent may be a word |
| 15:57.21 | Shirik | but it's not what you wanted :P |
| 15:57.25 | Matsy | oh. |
| 15:57.38 | Wobin | well |
| 15:57.39 | Wobin | A past tense and a past participle of blend. |
| 15:57.39 | Matsy | haha |
| 15:57.40 | airtonix | shirk(sp+) |
| 15:57.44 | Wobin | it -actually- is =P |
| 15:57.57 | airtonix | WTF |
| 15:57.59 | Wobin | if a bit archaic |
| 15:58.04 | Wobin | http://www.thefreedictionary.com/blent |
| 15:58.19 | airtonix | wur r mai unknowns |
| 15:58.27 | Cide | airtonix: I hear + isn't the same as ? |
| 15:58.35 | airtonix | -( |
| 15:59.01 | Wobin | Cide, well, certainly in regexp =) |
| 15:59.07 | Matsy | shirk (sp?) |
| 15:59.08 | batbot | Matsy, shirk is correct. |
| 15:59.09 | Matsy | :D |
| 15:59.12 | airtonix | fuuuuuuu |
| 15:59.20 | Ackis | http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100517/edm_5th_homicide_100517/20100517/?hub=EdmontonHome |
| 15:59.22 | Ackis | afk meeting! :D |
| 15:59.48 | nicoli_s | is that ackis's way of saying he killed someone? |
| 15:59.49 | Lunessa | feels like popping a few circuits and asking how to reliably parse HTML with a regex... |
| 15:59.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Lothaer (~jamiecook@122.49.144.117) |
| 15:59.58 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lothaer] by ChanServ |
| 16:00.04 | Lopeppeppy | Univorn! http://ridiculousposes.com/2010/05/05/funny-model-fail-manicorn/ |
| 16:00.13 | Lopeppeppy | Evil and ugly and wrong. |
| 16:01.47 | airtonix | ? |
| 16:02.06 | Lopeppeppy | the manicorn |
| 16:02.07 | Lothaer | why would you even link that? |
| 16:02.18 | airtonix | Seriously, WTF? |
| 16:02.30 | Lopeppeppy | [11:56] <airtonix> wur r mai unknowns |
| 16:02.39 | nicoli_s | i thought it was gonna be much worse after seeing that header image |
| 16:02.39 | airtonix | i found my ? |
| 16:02.43 | Lopeppeppy | i read that as unicorns. I need new glasses, ugh. |
| 16:02.56 | Wobin | Lopeppeppy, have you seen the rest of that spread? |
| 16:02.57 | cogwheel | i linked i picture of that guy to Fisker the other day |
| 16:03.31 | airtonix | goats |
| 16:03.52 | cogwheel | http://cdn5.mattters.com/photos/photos/1553358/exterface_unicorn_03.jpg |
| 16:04.20 | cogwheel | http://fashionindie.com/wtf-unicorn-man-will-haunt-your-nightmares-steal-your-heals/ |
| 16:04.36 | airtonix | draeno dreams |
| 16:04.44 | cogwheel | Fisker: |
| 16:04.49 | cogwheel | how was the shoot? |
| 16:05.05 | cogwheel | did the hooves itch? |
| 16:06.26 | Lunessa | cogwheel: You're not making me click those links. No sir. NO SIR |
| 16:06.26 | Wobin | I totally read the url as Fashion or Die |
| 16:09.36 | airtonix | hacking in movies : a desperate amount of keyboard smashing |
| 16:09.51 | Lunessa | hacking in movies: made up jargo |
| 16:09.54 | Lunessa | jargon |
| 16:10.13 | airtonix | hacking in movies : irc = boats |
| 16:10.25 | Lunessa | oil tankers |
| 16:10.29 | Wobin | no boats |
| 16:10.36 | airtonix | shipping lanes |
| 16:10.42 | Wobin | passing in the night |
| 16:10.53 | airtonix | OMG HES USING LEET SPEAK I CANO UNDERSTAND HIM |
| 16:11.08 | Wobin | don't worry |
| 16:11.10 | airtonix | get an interpreter in here now! |
| 16:11.10 | Lunessa | Did your mommy buy you a 'puter for X-Mas? |
| 16:11.12 | Wobin | I'm fluent in leet |
| 16:12.20 | airtonix | wonderwoman movie coming soon ? |
| 16:12.40 | Lunessa | ... doesn't make the obvious joke. |
| 16:12.42 | airtonix | -_- its justa cartoon |
| 16:12.46 | Wobin | who? |
| 16:12.56 | Wobin | oh only a cartoon |
| 16:14.19 | airtonix | Dr Doom! |
| 16:14.48 | Lopeppeppy | I think the superhero movies have been done to death... but sure, let's have Wonder Woman! |
| 16:15.18 | Lunessa | Um, Avenger plx? |
| 16:15.29 | Lunessa | loves superhero movies. |
| 16:15.37 | Lopeppeppy | Only if there are girlz in it! |
| 16:15.44 | Lopeppeppy | Better girls than Sue Storm, okay? |
| 16:15.55 | Lunessa | Scarlett Witch? |
| 16:15.58 | Wobin | My liking of a live action wonderwoman movie will heavily depend on who they cast as wonder woman |
| 16:16.30 | Wobin | night all |
| 16:16.46 | airtonix | daniel craig is cptn america |
| 16:16.49 | airtonix | loooool |
| 16:16.51 | Lopeppeppy | Scarlet Witch needed to be shot in the head a lot. |
| 16:17.00 | Lopeppeppy | At close range |
| 16:17.12 | Lopeppeppy | Shadowcat! |
| 16:17.34 | Lopeppeppy | More of Aurora Storm. She is the good Storm. |
| 16:18.01 | Wobin | oh dear god |
| 16:18.03 | Wobin | from a friend: |
| 16:18.06 | Wobin | "when I worked at tab in 2000 I wrote this huge thing in MFC, when I came back 3 years later I found out after I'd gone they didn't have anyone who oculd follow my code, so they rewrote it to be a VB6 app :p" |
| 16:18.23 | Wobin | >< |
| 16:19.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~cide@c213-100-51-33.swipnet.se) |
| 16:19.03 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 16:20.33 | Lunessa | Wobin: That's the soul-crushing reality of development without documenting or commenting. |
| 16:20.51 | Wobin | indeed |
| 16:21.07 | airtonix | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqx5EsbSfY |
| 16:21.18 | airtonix | fail |
| 16:21.20 | ZorbaBeta | I don't get why people don't just refactor it. learning how to read tough code is a great skill to have |
| 16:21.49 | Matsy | How do you write something in MFC though? >_> |
| 16:21.52 | airtonix | meant to paste this |
| 16:22.00 | airtonix | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FprQEGc3Za4 |
| 16:22.05 | Matsy | I mean, it's just an expensive wrapper? |
| 16:22.17 | ZorbaBeta | matsy, presumably written in C++ with extensive use of MFC |
| 16:22.29 | Matsy | Ah |
| 16:22.32 | Matsy | Yeah, okay |
| 16:22.57 | Lunessa | ZorbaBeta: I went to work for a company in 2002 doing medical imaging/remote consultation software - It took me my first 45 hours just to read and figure out the source of the project as written already. I submitted my invoice for those 45 grueling hours of work. And they didn't want to pay. |
| 16:23.08 | Lunessa | THAT'S why no one refactors. |
| 16:23.20 | ZorbaBeta | sure, how long would it have taken to rewrite it |
| 16:23.28 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (~nuoHep@83.220.61.106) |
| 16:23.40 | Lunessa | Me? A few hundred hours, but I would have had new lines of code to show for it. |
| 16:23.59 | Lunessa | Which wouldn't have led to the 3 hour conference call over my first invoice. |
| 16:24.03 | Matsy | Yeah. |
| 16:24.13 | Matsy | It's mostly the easy way out just to keep your code like that |
| 16:24.16 | Matsy | And develop around it |
| 16:24.39 | Matsy | It will be hard to manage later on, but it's easier to get fast results. |
| 16:24.45 | Lunessa | ZorbaBeta: I had to go to court to get paid for those hours. |
| 16:24.56 | Matsy | I'm still developing on an ASP classic application. :( |
| 16:25.18 | ZorbaBeta | yeah, I think that's "a reason why contractors don't like refactoring for terrible employers" |
| 16:25.23 | ZorbaBeta | but not a reason why it shouldn't be done |
| 16:25.30 | Matsy | It's no excuse |
| 16:25.31 | Matsy | but meh |
| 16:25.40 | Matsy | I always refactor DURING the development of applications |
| 16:25.47 | Matsy | Since refactoring isn't something you should do at the very end |
| 16:25.54 | Lunessa | ZorbaBeta: I concur. It's just why I hate doing it without a good contract and smart managers. |
| 16:26.01 | ZorbaBeta | yeah, that's fair |
| 16:26.27 | ZorbaBeta | matsy, I take on a general cycle of guess-what-I'm-going-to-want-to-do --> write-a-bunch-of-code --> figure-out-why-I-was-wrong --> refactor-it --> repeat |
| 16:26.48 | Matsy | yeah |
| 16:26.53 | Matsy | That seems to be a good cycle |
| 16:27.10 | Matsy | (Seeing it is equal to mine ;p) |
| 16:27.24 | Matsy | Mine does involve adding test cases in some steps between |
| 16:27.36 | ZorbaBeta | yeah, I like test cases but I usually have trouble figuring out how to write them |
| 16:27.40 | ZorbaBeta | they work great for libraries and APIs |
| 16:27.43 | ZorbaBeta | not so great for games. |
| 16:27.48 | Matsy | Haha yeah |
| 16:27.50 | Matsy | I'm not a game developer |
| 16:27.58 | ZorbaBeta | trust me, keep it that way ;) |
| 16:28.12 | Matsy | Pfsh, I would want to trade. You can become a Sharepoint Developer then ;p |
| 16:29.21 | *** join/#wowuidev mascondante (kvirc@75-105-24-144.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 16:29.35 | Lunessa | ZorbaBeta: You forgot the "Holy shit, I never even thought of that" moments |
| 16:29.53 | ZorbaBeta | haha, yes. |
| 16:29.57 | Lunessa | Sharepoint is EVIL |
| 16:30.02 | airtonix | duh |
| 16:30.09 | airtonix | obvious statement is obvious |
| 16:30.12 | ZorbaBeta | at my last job, my boss innocently said "why aren't you just doing X?" |
| 16:30.20 | ZorbaBeta | six-fold speed increase once I went and did X |
| 16:30.22 | ZorbaBeta | and the code was simpler |
| 16:30.23 | ZorbaBeta | :( |
| 16:34.12 | Lunessa | ZorbaBeta: When I was at AOL back in the day (go ahead, laugh, it was awesome) I spent a week building a widget to do something for a project - and my boss (who had a decade on me as a programmer) said - what about this? And.... way better code. |
| 16:35.08 | ZorbaBeta | yup. sorta what happens sometimes. |
| 16:35.18 | nicoli_s | yah i hate having to ask for time just to refactor something |
| 16:35.32 | ZorbaBeta | one of the many reasons I just do not put much stock into spending hours beforehand trying to work out the Perfect Design. |
| 16:35.56 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 16:36.28 | zenzelezz | make it work, then analyse |
| 16:36.35 | Lunessa | I have a huge whiteboard for that. I diagram it, make notes, and then someone else always says "hey, how about 'y' right here?" and I get to skip one more more "oh fuck" moment. |
| 16:37.05 | Lopeppeppy | I really need a huge whiteboard for website layout. |
| 16:38.23 | Lunessa | Peppy - more like 3-4 |
| 16:38.35 | airtonix | dont you guys do system flowcharts etc ? |
| 16:38.37 | airtonix | first! |
| 16:39.01 | airtonix | yo know the unfun part |
| 16:39.09 | Lopeppeppy | I write teeny, lunessa |
| 16:40.47 | Fisker | slaps Lopeppeppy around a bit with a large trout |
| 16:42.51 | Lopeppeppy | *purr* |
| 16:43.39 | Lunessa | She said she needed a break. A little time to think. But then she went to Cleavland with some guy named Leeland that she met at the bank. |
| 16:44.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Nechckn (~N@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Admin/Nechckn) |
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| 16:44.51 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 16:46.25 | ZorbaBeta | airtonix, I scorn flowcharts. |
| 16:48.16 | zenzelezz | why is that? |
| 16:48.37 | ZorbaBeta | far too much effort for far too little gain. |
| 16:49.02 | ZorbaBeta | they might be more useful if you're writing the same code over and over, but if you're writing new code, I've found it nigh-impossible to predict everything in advance anyway. |
| 16:49.08 | zenzelezz | I think they're nice for documentation, not for planning |
| 17:01.07 | Adys | !api currency |
| 17:01.07 | lua_bot | Found 15 possible matches for 'currency'. Please be more specific |
| 17:01.12 | Adys | !api honorcurrency |
| 17:01.12 | lua_bot | Found 3 possible results for 'honorcurrency': GetHolidayBGHonorCurrencyBonuses, GetRandomBGHonorCurrencyBonuses, GetHonorCurrency |
| 17:01.16 | Adys | !api gethonorcurrency |
| 17:01.16 | lua_bot | GetHonorCurrency: Returns the player's amount of honor points (http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/GetHonorCurrency) |
| 17:02.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Vangual_ (~bah@pdpc/supporter/active/vangual) |
| 17:04.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Thaoky (Thaoky@206.230-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 17:13.52 | *** join/#wowuidev mascondante (kvirc@75-105-24-144.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 17:14.40 | Adys | nevcairiel, my love, come back |
| 17:15.15 | *** join/#wowuidev daev (~bleh@pool-72-86-116-158.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 17:15.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Guardix-lagtop1 (~Martin@188.178.102.237) |
| 17:18.03 | nevcairiel | Adys: sup? |
| 17:18.14 | Adys | nevcairiel: you manage bartender right? |
| 17:18.31 | Adys | is there somewhere i can easily hardcode the default profile? |
| 17:18.46 | Adys | so that i dont have to port settings etc every time on every client |
| 17:19.10 | nevcairiel | what settings aer default, or what profile is default? |
| 17:19.31 | Adys | "six bars in the middle of the screen" is default for me |
| 17:19.39 | *** join/#wowuidev mascondante (kvirc@75-105-24-144.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 17:19.50 | Adys | http://db.mmo-champion.com/adys/ouch.jpg and i use something like this |
| 17:20.52 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI|work (~KarlKFI|w@adcom005v.adcom.uci.edu) |
| 17:21.37 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-68-38-51-80.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 17:22.14 | kd3 | 1/20.3k? you're about to go splat there |
| 17:22.25 | Adys | I survived \o/ |
| 17:22.36 | nevcairiel | what do yo uwant to change? just what profile is default for new chars, or how that profile actually looks, without copying sv's? |
| 17:23.05 | Adys | nevcairiel: I want to change the default profile when I first open bartender on a char without any saved var |
| 17:23.18 | nevcairiel | good luck :p |
| 17:23.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (~Kandoko@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 17:24.00 | Adys | nevcairiel: well is there some way i can easily hardcode it? like add my saved config to another file and force load it if its empty? |
| 17:24.26 | Adys | which reminds me do you have a git/svn repo of bartender? |
| 17:25.43 | nevcairiel | git://git.wowace.com/wow/bartender4/mainline.git |
| 17:26.08 | nevcairiel | you could change the defaults in the ActionBars.lua and the defaults table on the top |
| 17:26.26 | Adys | ok |
| 17:26.27 | Adys | sec |
| 17:26.38 | *** join/#wowuidev isman (~drag@mlr78-3-88-162-68-235.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:35.55 | Fisker | roh roh |
| 17:36.20 | Lopeppeppy | ruh roh raggy? |
| 17:37.21 | zenzelezz | Ragnaros? Where? |
| 17:37.56 | Executus | Come, I'll show you where he is. |
| 17:38.04 | Executus | This way please. |
| 17:38.13 | zenzelezz | \o/ |
| 17:40.24 | Fisker | i r tird |
| 17:42.14 | zenzelezz | [...] whispers: New raiding guild 70+ allowed to join /w me |
| 17:42.22 | zenzelezz | /who ... |
| 17:42.24 | zenzelezz | [...]: Level 46 Night Elf Rogue |
| 17:44.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan| (~pancake@cpe-174-098-002-214.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 17:47.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Mikk (~Mikk@78-73-111-137-no162.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 17:47.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Mikk (~Mikk@WoWUIDev/mikk) |
| 17:49.03 | Dagmar | zenzeless: How is that any different from the usual practice of someone with a 4000 gs starting a PUG raid with a minimum 5500 gs requirement... |
| 17:49.04 | Lunessa | Grrrrr... |
| 17:49.08 | Lunessa | grrrr |
| 17:49.13 | Lunessa | shoots a web designer |
| 17:49.39 | haste | Dagmar: it's common |
| 17:52.17 | foxlit | clearly an alt |
| 17:52.31 | zenzelezz | yeah, but it always amuses me |
| 17:52.59 | Fisker | hey haste |
| 17:53.02 | Fisker | i hate haste |
| 17:53.16 | nevcairiel | they'll make you love haste |
| 17:53.29 | haste | lol wut |
| 17:53.48 | haste | Fisker: my priest got the blue proto-drake btw |
| 17:55.11 | Fisker | now i really hate haste |
| 17:55.37 | zenzelezz | why so hate? |
| 17:56.04 | Fisker | he got a blue proto-drake :( |
| 17:56.49 | *** join/#wowuidev nevcairiel (~nev@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/nevcairiel) |
| 17:56.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (~Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 17:57.58 | haste | Fisker: if it helps, it was my first UP |
| 17:58.53 | Lopeppeppy | http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2010/05/13/the-geek-alphabet/ Geek alphabet is cute. |
| 18:00.23 | alestane | purrs at Lopeppeppy. |
| 18:02.12 | zenzelezz | Lopeppeppy: lol |
| 18:02.56 | *** join/#wowuidev PfhorSlayer (~dbarrie@174-31-245-27.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 18:04.03 | alestane | "V is for Voltage: Oh, the places we'll go! |
| 18:04.11 | Fisker | i can't believe it's not haste hate |
| 18:09.54 | Adys | Lopeppeppy: no |
| 18:09.55 | Adys | just |
| 18:09.56 | Adys | no |
| 18:10.00 | Adys | X is not for Xerox |
| 18:10.03 | Adys | it's for XKCD |
| 18:10.07 | Adys | this thing is fake |
| 18:10.44 | Cide | it's open source!! roll your own!! |
| 18:10.58 | Adys | i fork what i want to fork gtfo. |
| 18:11.21 | Adys | Seagate Confirms 3TB Hard Drive |
| 18:11.35 | Adys | Rest of the world doesn't care and just want big SSDs |
| 18:12.41 | Cide | true story |
| 18:12.50 | Cide | but it seems intel is the only one capable of doing ssd's |
| 18:13.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (kalroth@d40aa9f5.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 18:14.33 | Lunessa | Worth a read: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/26/AR2010022603369.html?hpid=opinionsbox1 |
| 18:16.00 | nevcairiel | wth, explosm.net is in chromes bad-site filter |
| 18:16.21 | Cide | because of bad humor |
| 18:16.22 | Dagmar | hehe yer point? |
| 18:17.31 | nevcairiel | that thing lacks a button to vote against the malware warning |
| 18:17.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Borgleader (~borgleade@modemcable253.146-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 18:17.44 | Dagmar | Ya sound like a coworker of mine complaining that OpenDNS is blocking Deviantart |
| 18:18.03 | alestane | Normality not necessarily normative...worth noting. |
| 18:18.10 | Dagmar | nevcariel: It's somewhat likely there's been another incident of malicious advertisers |
| 18:18.35 | alestane | However, Mr. Will's reference to things as "personality flaws" is somewhat distracting. |
| 18:18.54 | Dagmar | ...or that once again, someone's become undone because the hosting provider they share a server IP with sold vhosting to someone *else* who was shipping malware |
| 18:20.02 | Dagmar | They do kinda have to block by IP address since malware folks have long-since learned to set up a host with a crapload of hostnames to one httpd, and each time they see their compromise rate dropping, just change to a different hostname |
| 18:20.10 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI|work (~KarlKFI|w@adcom005v.adcom.uci.edu) |
| 18:20.31 | Fisker | i need 3TB hdds Adys |
| 18:20.43 | Dagmar | Fisker: Wait until winter |
| 18:26.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Stew-a (~Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 18:28.22 | haste | Fisker: and now I got the blue drake from occulus |
| 18:28.49 | Fisker | that i atleast don't care about |
| 18:29.26 | Fisker | and cide i believe ocz's are the best on the market currently |
| 18:29.38 | Cide | yeah, maybe |
| 18:31.58 | *** join/#wowuidev akhe (~akhe@0x573bb4a2.ronqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 18:33.02 | Ackis | ~jnwhiteh++ |
| 18:33.12 | Ackis | (for your retweet/facebook post about the privacy scanner) |
| 18:33.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Aqua (~Aquavette@74-143-225-146.static.insightbb.com) |
| 18:33.59 | Lunessa | alestane: The point he's making is that each time the manual is revised it's scope is vastly increased, and usually in target groups that shouldn't be being diagnosed for mental illness. Because a child is surly, pr easily distracted is likely not cause for defining them as ill. |
| 18:34.50 | Fisker | i hate you Ackis |
| 18:34.59 | alestane | And many of those conditions are beneficial in the right framework, as far as I can tell. Just his conclusion sounds a great deal like, "All that boy needs is a good whipping to set him straight." |
| 18:35.29 | alestane | I don't disagree, Lunessa, that the proliferation of supposed "disorders" is grossly excessive. |
| 18:35.58 | Ackis | why Fisker? |
| 18:36.55 | alestane | But I find the particulars of Mr. Will's conclusion to be both needlessly derisive and hypocritical. |
| 18:36.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Stew-a (~Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 18:37.25 | Lunessa | alestane: No, he's saying "we probably shouldn't be jumping to medical treatment for people who are not the same as everyone else." |
| 18:38.16 | Lunessa | His statements happen to coincide with my own thinking/prejudices on the topic too. |
| 18:38.32 | alestane | "[...a]nd the notion that deviations from it should be considered "disorders" to be "cured" rather than stigmatized as offenses against valid moral norms." |
| 18:39.05 | Lunessa | If you're surly, you probably need social correction, not drugs. |
| 18:39.13 | alestane | I don't disagree with that point. |
| 18:39.13 | Adys | anyone knows if the gll engine is only for mac os? |
| 18:39.26 | Lunessa | And even more correctly, an address of the reason whihc incites you to be surly. |
| 18:39.29 | Dagmar | They've found another cure for teh gay? |
| 18:40.04 | alestane | That didn't sound to me like the intent of his point, although I can't argue that it contradicts him. |
| 18:40.18 | Lunessa | Dagmar: No, the DSM is being expanded... again, with very loose criteria for diagnosing mental illness. |
| 18:40.19 | Dagmar | alestane: There's a lot of kids who could do with a good beating |
| 18:40.28 | Dagmar | Lunessa: Oh *that* thing |
| 18:40.37 | Dagmar | I am twelve kinds of crazy according to their guidlines. |
| 18:41.02 | foxlit | gr. |
| 18:41.08 | foxlit | Curse you, collapsed achievements API |
| 18:41.14 | Lopeppeppy | I'm all for expanding the DSM, so that insurance companies can be made to pony up a bit of treatment for some of the more vague illnesses, before they become dangerous damn schizophrenia. Also, there's a lot of CYA in expanding the DSM |
| 18:41.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Zyn (~zyn@h187n4-av-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 18:41.32 | Dagmar | OCD, ADHD, bipolar, and a few other things besides |
| 18:41.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Nechckn (~N@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Admin/Nechckn) |
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| 18:42.00 | Ackis | CDO |
| 18:42.14 | Ackis | It should be CDO instead of OCD... letters need to be in order! LIKE IT WAS MEANT TO BE |
| 18:42.36 | Lunessa | Lopeppeppy: You and I disagree - mostly because I think we already over-diagnose and over-prescribe and chemically straight-jacket too many people. |
| 18:42.37 | Ackis | As well, ADHOLAB > ADHD |
| 18:42.54 | Lunessa | I'm not going to say people shouldn't get help. |
| 18:42.57 | Ackis | Attention Deficit Hyper Oh Look A Butterfly |
| 18:43.03 | Adys | ackis you fail |
| 18:43.08 | Adys | http://www.teomyr.eu/wowuidev/irc-quotes?ids=63#quote-63 |
| 18:43.09 | Lunessa | I'm just saying we're helping people with drugs who probably don't need that. |
| 18:43.16 | Adys | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:43.23 | durcyn | everyone knows it's Let's Go Ride Bikes syndrome |
| 18:43.33 | Ackis | lol Adys |
| 18:43.33 | Lunessa | And 'help' should be in quotes. |
| 18:44.15 | alestane | The issue I have is mostly with his final sentence, where he seems to be asserting that we should 'help' people by telling them they're bad and shameful, rather than by telling them they're sick. |
| 18:44.43 | alestane | Which also seems to contradict his point about norms not being normative. |
| 18:46.14 | Dagmar | Most of mine is mild enough that I'm perfectly normal (and them some) so long as I'm focused |
| 18:46.32 | Dagmar | So... it's stuff that a beating or two could probably sort out for a kid |
| 18:47.01 | alestane | But one of the books that seriously helped my wife deal with her ADD diagnosis was entitled "You mean I'm not Lazy, Stupid or Crazy?" |
| 18:47.13 | Dagmar | "Crazy" is entirely relative. |
| 18:47.26 | alestane | Sadly, Dagmar, little evidence concurs that beating a kid will actually "sort him out." |
| 18:47.42 | alestane | I distinguish here between a beating and a smack. |
| 18:47.43 | Dagmar | Not directly it won't |
| 18:47.50 | Dagmar | They have to have _internal_ discipline |
| 18:48.09 | Dagmar | Well, a smack won't solve much, but I'm not talking about bruising a kid up either |
| 18:48.24 | Nechckn | If they are smart enough to not get hit again, it will. =) |
| 18:48.28 | Dagmar | The regular "whooping" to make the seat smart will generally do |
| 18:48.58 | Dagmar | Kids and adults both take the path of least resistance |
| 18:49.30 | Nechckn | My parents were of that school, generally... and, once you did something really, really bad.. they let you know it. And, ta da, no more doing that. |
| 18:49.31 | Dagmar | "whooping" == resistance == incentive to pay attention to how you're behaving and learn some self-control-slash-restraint |
| 18:49.54 | Dagmar | Coddling a child when they act out is not offering resistance |
| 18:50.14 | Nechckn | As what Dagmar said, though, I surely am not saying that some do not go too far with it or that it is the only way. Just seems quite effective, overall. |
| 18:50.41 | alestane | But in my wife's case, it was releasing the concept that some of her tendencies were "flaws" and that therefore her own inability to change them was also a "flaw" that allowed her to view them as things that she needed to work around rather than against. |
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| 18:51.17 | Lunessa | I'm not for beating children, but mild corporal punishment has it's place in the parenting toolbox. I'm not for berating people constantly. I'm also not for giving people a pill or injection because they learn differently than I do, or react poorly to orders, or have some trouble with focusing or any of many things called illness. |
| 18:51.50 | Nechckn | Well, especially with someone who has any *real* illness, that is where a bood doctor is needed. To work with them about the issue and only as part of that, to prescribe something when needed. |
| 18:51.50 | alestane | Then I think I am in significantly greater agreement with you than I am with him. |
| 18:51.51 | Dashkal | Lunessa: Oh so agreed. |
| 18:51.55 | Dagmar | I'm for beating them as much as I'm for praising. |
| 18:52.03 | Nechckn | good... not bood ;-) |
| 18:52.04 | Dagmar | Bad parents use only one. |
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| 18:52.22 | AbsolutRayne | doot doot doot |
| 18:52.31 | cogwheel | do dedo dedo |
| 18:52.34 | Dagmar | "I will never lay a hand on my child" == all carrot |
| 18:52.49 | Dagmar | "Ah'll beat that boy within an inch of his life" == probably all stick |
| 18:53.12 | alestane | Moreover, the parent will probably eventually break this determination at some point at start beating himself up at least as badly as he hit his kid. |
| 18:54.59 | Ackis | h8 cogwheel |
| 18:55.18 | Dagmar | alestane: Then you've got both people spinning out of control. |
| 18:55.24 | Dagmar | Internal discipline is pretty important stuff |
| 18:55.40 | Duman | hmm |
| 18:55.44 | Lunessa | Yeah. I'm worried that in trying to 'correct' some things we'll all end up on 'Librium' and have nothing that makes us unique or human. |
| 18:55.56 | alestane | Which is why I concur that "fluffy bunny" child-rearing is often ineffective. |
| 18:56.16 | cogwheel | Ackis: does your toenail grow inside your toe and have to be extracted from time to time? |
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| 18:56.59 | Dagmar | Lunessa: The meds still cause almost as many problems as they solve |
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| 18:57.21 | Dagmar | Lunessa: I've got an ex who is actually _immune_ to MDMA because of some meds their childhood shrink gave them |
| 18:57.26 | alestane | Lunessa: "God save us from an Earth in which all men are the same. God save us from a colony where that is the goal, or a culture which assumes that for its norm. Give me a thousand people speaking different languages, worshiping different gods, and dreaming different dreams, and I will make of them a greater nation than you can with ten thousand of your gengineered duplicates. For mine will have the spark of greatness |
| 18:57.26 | alestane | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:58.26 | Lunessa | alestane: Yes. I see we both consumed all the great dystopian novels. |
| 18:58.51 | alestane | I don't know if "This Alien Shore" is a dystopian novel, but I suspect we did. |
| 18:59.02 | Lunessa | *nod* |
| 18:59.31 | Dagmar | It's dystopian. |
| 18:59.50 | Dagmar | It's resemblance to our current reality is merely a bad reflection on the modern world. |
| 19:00.18 | Lunessa | To be very clear, I don't want people who need help to be denied help. I don't want people who are suffering to suffer. I just don't want them to turned into chemical zombies. |
| 19:00.26 | Dagmar | As evidence I submit to you the continued tolerance of Sarah Palin. |
| 19:00.31 | Dagmar | rests. |
| 19:01.17 | Ackis | cogwheel: there's some nail that grows on one side which I need to trim now and then, but the rest doesn't have any toenail that grows at all, they removed the ability for it to grow |
| 19:01.25 | alestane | It's struck me (like Peter Hamilton's sci-fi saga) as an attempt to extrapolate the likely actual interactions between existing societal trends and interstellar travel, and it's good that that. But I wouldn't take that to mean that our current environment has already devolved into a dystopia. |
| 19:01.54 | alestane | And not just tolerance, Dagmar, but fascination. Why are people still paying attention to this woman? |
| 19:02.41 | Dagmar | alestane: I've talked to a number of my "counter-culture friends" in the last year about Bush |
| 19:02.42 | Nechckn | Look at the news, it is easy. She thinks she is the next "peoples' " Margaret Thatcher, when she is really the current Brit Spears. |
| 19:03.14 | Dagmar | The thread we all agree on is that carping about shadowy conspiracies as if the world were a dystopian nightmare is all fun and games until it's really happening |
| 19:04.08 | Dagmar | Nechckn: The sad part is that the continual lowering of standards for what passes for acceptable behaviour and intelligence has resulted in there being a *SIZEABLE* portion of hte population who actually believe that woman is qualified |
| 19:04.25 | Dagmar | Bush made s**t _scary_ for real |
| 19:04.59 | Nechckn | Eh... will cross that bridge if it ever comes around. I doubt it, but, heh, who knows. |
| 19:05.36 | Nechckn | Even amongst self-described "Tea Party" people, she still is not over 50% of qualified to be President. |
| 19:06.35 | Nechckn | At least of the last WSJ/NBC poll I paid attention to, maybe a week or so, ago. |
| 19:07.22 | Dagmar | Damnit I can't remmeber hte author of a book I'd really like to cite right now |
| 19:08.06 | Dagmar | Ah. |
| 19:08.13 | Fisker | btw nevcairiel |
| 19:08.17 | Nechckn | If she does somehow win, then she will be the final white trash President. |
| 19:08.18 | Dagmar | alestane: Have you read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Brother_%28Cory_Doctorow_novel%29 |
| 19:08.18 | Fisker | i will never love haste! |
| 19:08.44 | Dagmar | alestane: It's just f**king terrifying how close to _actual reality_ the book is |
| 19:09.34 | Dagmar | http://craphound.com/littlebrother/download/ <-- Doctorow made the book available for free |
| 19:09.50 | Dagmar | ...cuz we were just *that* damn close to it happenin |
| 19:10.30 | Matsy | How can I cancel my Divine Shield from within a macro? |
| 19:11.21 | olafski | /cancelaura Divine Shield |
| 19:12.32 | alestane | My conservative New ENgland Republican in-laws were terrified of her, Nechckn, if that tells you anyhting. |
| 19:12.42 | *** part/#wowuidev Thaoky (Thaoky@206.230-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 19:13.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Cloudwolf (~chatzilla@c-71-227-249-44.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 19:13.42 | Dagmar | alestane: They sound like rational, educated people to me. :) |
| 19:13.52 | alestane | In many regards. |
| 19:14.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Gotaii (~Gotai@ip54546435.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl) |
| 19:21.12 | Nechckn | So, do you think that folks will replace the different scientific theories as the replacement for religion as we know it? |
| 19:22.12 | Nechckn | Had an interesting discussion about that the other day- do not want to go through the whole thing, but thought it was a neat thought of one possible outcome. |
| 19:25.33 | Dagmar | huh? |
| 19:25.54 | Dagmar | Somehow I don't see scientists getting involved in suicide bombings |
| 19:28.26 | Lunessa | He's saying that will science replace religion. I contend that for many people it already has. |
| 19:28.49 | Lunessa | curses the extra "that" in the above |
| 19:28.52 | Lopeppeppy | They're not the same? |
| 19:29.12 | zenzelezz | briefly turns away from the altar of the neon god |
| 19:29.34 | Dagmar | I don't think science _can_ replace religion |
| 19:29.36 | Lunessa | And the people bowed and prayed, to the Neon God they'ed made? |
| 19:29.42 | Dagmar | Religion tends to be all about faith |
| 19:29.47 | zenzelezz | Lunessa: exactly \o/ |
| 19:29.50 | Dagmar | Science is about _proof_ |
| 19:30.07 | Dagmar | I can definitely see science causing religion to die off, tho |
| 19:30.12 | Lunessa | Science is also about answering many of the same questions to which people turn to religion. |
| 19:30.25 | Lunessa | for/to. |
| 19:30.26 | Dagmar | All primitive cultures have religion. |
| 19:30.32 | Dagmar | Not so for "advanced" cultures |
| 19:30.35 | Lunessa | dies from grammar fails. |
| 19:30.49 | Lopeppeppy | buries Lunessa in a small pine box. It's safer there. |
| 19:31.16 | Lunessa | It's password expiriy week around here. I'm being harrased. |
| 19:31.30 | alestane | That;s an incredibly narrow view of religion, and I don't think I've seen this advanced culture with no religion of which you speak yet anyway.. |
| 19:31.31 | Lopeppeppy | Oh, ouch. I remember password month here, it was a bitch. |
| 19:32.02 | zenzelezz | I remember people who rotated their passwords as months... "january", "february", "march", etc. So safe |
| 19:32.11 | Lopeppeppy | ... eeeeeep. |
| 19:32.30 | Dagmar | zenzeless: John the Ripper fixes that |
| 19:34.40 | Lunessa | alestane: Religion is pretty much here to stay. I can't imagine a culture which doesn't have it in some fashion. |
| 19:34.40 | alestane | There are at least two basic types of questions that people inherently seem to ask...the ones I've noted are "Why am I here?" and "What should I do?" |
| 19:35.17 | Lunessa | And finally, "Where shall we have lunch?" |
| 19:35.40 | alestane | Originally, we attempted to answer them both through the same mechanisms, since our facilities of observation were very limited. We relied mostly on narrative. |
| 19:36.17 | Lunessa | zenzelezz: last year we changed password requirements and forced resets for lots and lots of passwords. As a result, they tend to come up in batches for changing. |
| 19:37.01 | Dagmar | Dude. Awesome. |
| 19:38.01 | alestane | Some of what we call "religion" isn't really. The "religious" assertion that the Earth is only 6000 years old and that the Earth was created ex nihilo is bad science promulgated under the mantle of religion. It's an answer to a factual question which is not consistent with our observations. It lingers largely because it is as impossible to disprove as it is to prove. |
| 19:38.32 | Fisker | anyone here done frost infusion yet? |
| 19:39.20 | alestane | Ethics is a catch-all term for the mechanisms people use to keep their short-term actions consistent with their long-term values. Because of the ways in which people rationalize, most people find it much easier to consistently apply an ethos if they externalize it somehow. |
| 19:39.35 | alestane | People typically do this through religion, societies through governments. |
| 19:39.42 | Lopeppeppy | I don't believe in either ethics or morals. *chesire smile* |
| 19:40.06 | alestane | That's okay dear, but they believe in you. |
| 19:40.25 | Lopeppeppy | They can believe all they want, I won't be putting anything in their christmas stalkings. |
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| 19:40.54 | alestane | However, while ethics help us maintain our values, they can't help us select our values. These are ultimately and undeniably personal and arbitrary. |
| 19:40.56 | Lunessa | Bust -- see? Christmas stockings. |
| 19:41.13 | Lunessa | Ironic Lopeppeppy is Ironic. |
| 19:41.15 | alestane | I wouldn't be so sure about that, Lunessa. |
| 19:42.05 | alestane | As long as we are in groups, we will have group norms about what values are "appropriate." |
| 19:42.16 | Dagmar | alestane: It's disprovable so long as you're not requiring first-hand accounts |
| 19:42.30 | Nechckn | Sorry.. telecon... but, the idea is that science is slowly replacing what exists as religion, by making many of the claims look silly and such. So, the idea is that, if it comes to pass that folks replace faith with truth, will there then be those who are like "String Theory, tards!" or what have you. |
| 19:42.35 | Dagmar | There are LOTS of ways we know the earth is more than 6,000 years old |
| 19:43.02 | alestane | There are lots of observations we've made that imply the Earth is more than 6,000 years old. |
| 19:43.21 | alestane | Based on other mechanisms we've observed. |
| 19:44.20 | alestane | But if you accept, as many people do, the existence of an intelligence capable of manipulating the universe through divine fiat, unconstrained by thermodynamics, then any explanation can be "defended." |
| 19:44.30 | Lopeppeppy | 'cause it's magic. |
| 19:45.01 | alestane | We cannot beat "intelligent design," because they can "refute all our evidence with the claim that God constructed it in such a fashion in order to test our faith. |
| 19:45.16 | alestane | s/"refute/"refute"/ |
| 19:45.22 | Dagmar | You assume they're smart enough to go that far |
| 19:45.24 | Dagmar | Clearly, they're not. |
| 19:45.37 | alestane | Do not confuse dogma with lack of intelligence. |
| 19:45.45 | Dagmar | If the ID people would simply agree that God made evolution, there woudln't be a problem |
| 19:45.49 | alestane | Or at the very least, with lack of logical facility. |
| 19:46.37 | alestane | John Calvin was clearly a man of tremendous logical intelligence, but he was one of the most bitterly dogmatic theologians I've ever read of. |
| 19:47.15 | alestane | I think his life is a real tragedy, honestly; if the sciences had been an acceptable vehicle for his intellect at the time, he might have taken a very different course. |
| 19:48.07 | Nechckn | Well, let us face it, the current faiths have it going their way. They moved from the "god is a tyrant, so believe, or else..." to the God is all loving idea. So it sticks much better. =) |
| 19:48.20 | Dagmar | Except for the muslims |
| 19:48.30 | alestane | But the ID defenders do not require their Weltanschauung to be internally consistent, so there really is no common ground for them to argue with the scientists. |
| 19:48.38 | Lopeppeppy | Look at me still talking when there's science to be done. |
| 19:48.47 | Nechckn | There are some who still do not, true, Dagmar. But, in general, that is. |
| 19:48.56 | alestane | Which current faiths are you referring to, Nechckn, there are lots? |
| 19:49.00 | Nechckn | As is the whole idea of moving "beyond religion" |
| 19:50.06 | Lopeppeppy | On the people who are still alive. |
| 19:50.07 | alestane | Many people embrace "science" with a dogmatic fervor equal to any ever devoted to "religion" as well. |
| 19:51.33 | alestane | My father once received a copy of St. Joseph's Baltimore Catechism as a nostalgia Christmas present, and I spent some time reading it. At one point I approached him, laughing over something (actually, it was the depiction of the ancient times when the world was "enclaved to the Devil", and everyone was wearing button-down oxford shirts), and he rebuked me, saying that people believed the contents of that book for the s |
| 19:51.33 | alestane | ame reasons that I believed in the existence of atoms. |
| 19:51.53 | alestane | enslaved* |
| 19:52.05 | alestane | That is, someone I trusted and respected had told me so. |
| 19:52.27 | Nechckn | alestane daoist, Christians, many of the lesser knowns.. with Hindus in between. But surely Islam and even radicalized Christians believe the "old ways". |
| 19:53.21 | alestane | Islam is the single most widely practiced religion in the world, Nechckn, do not assume its followers are uniform in their beliefs. |
| 19:53.33 | Nechckn | I did not claim they were. |
| 19:54.19 | alestane | Islam asserts that its literature reveals portions of the divine truth absent in Christianity. |
| 19:54.38 | Fisker | hey Ackis |
| 19:54.44 | Nechckn | But, in a generalized discussion such as this, if you go by the primary teachings, at least of the main folks whose impact is noted in the press and such, then, I think it is a reasonable statement. |
| 19:55.47 | alestane | But as far as I know, the Islamic texts do not incite violent suppression of the infidel any more then the compassionate teachings of Yeshua of Nazareth can be used to support condemnation and destruction. |
| 19:55.58 | Dagmar | Either way more restrictice a religion is, the less it's society prospers. |
| 19:56.05 | alestane | That has always been the work of priests. |
| 19:56.21 | alestane | Or of those seeking secular power through religious support. |
| 19:56.36 | Dagmar | This is why during the Dark Ages and the crazy shit the christians were doing that the muslims were kicking everyone's asses |
| 19:56.43 | Lopeppeppy | And the science gets done, and you make a neat gun, to use on people who are still alive. |
| 19:56.43 | Dagmar | Muslims _used_ to be a really relaxed lot |
| 19:56.54 | alestane | I would argue that most of them still are. |
| 19:57.05 | alestane | I've known several. |
| 19:57.07 | Dagmar | Yeah I would too, but clearly those guys aren't the ones running the middle east |
| 19:57.16 | alestane | Define "running". |
| 19:57.25 | Dagmar | They have all the munnies |
| 19:57.54 | alestane | The Shiite/Sunni conflicts in Iraq are primarily driven by hereditary feuds at this point. |
| 19:57.59 | Dagmar | Yes. |
| 19:58.12 | Dagmar | "I keel you because your grandfather killed my grandfather" |
| 19:58.19 | Dagmar | Intolerance, neverending. |
| 19:58.39 | Nechckn | alestane You could argue that, sure, but from the outside, without being a member of any religion/faction, it is hard to know exactly what is being said daily. But the general tone, today, tends to be known for most of them. |
| 19:58.45 | alestane | Whatsisname in Afghanistan appears to primarily focused on concentrating secular power and wealth, and will happily appropriate religion as a vehicle for such. |
| 19:59.08 | Dagmar | Yep and the way you consolidate power like that is to place more restrictions on behaviour |
| 19:59.15 | Nechckn | (I'm not painting them all with the same brush... not by a long stretch.) |
| 19:59.22 | *** join/#wowuidev kraftman (~kraft_@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust764.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 19:59.25 | Dagmar | "The people with the most rules are the most holy." |
| 19:59.43 | *** join/#wowuidev daev (~bleh@pool-72-86-116-158.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 20:00.01 | alestane | The general tone of Islam as it is popularly known in America is primarily founded on the actions of radical fringe communities, but that doesn't stop a lot of people from assuming that all Muslims want to blow up their porn. |
| 20:00.26 | Dagmar | Well, if htey just blew up the porn, it might see some actual scarcity |
| 20:00.46 | Dagmar | Problem is they want to blow up underpants, bridges, and supermarkets |
| 20:00.48 | alestane | Oh, and destroy their flags and stuff. |
| 20:01.06 | Dagmar | Pfft. *WE* burn our own flags. |
| 20:01.09 | Dagmar | They're welcome to join us. |
| 20:01.30 | Nechckn | I mean, you could point to SE Asia and see many progressive followers of Islam, but, even they tend to behave according to the God is a big baddy, believe! type of idea. Again, not to say "all", since the population is huge, but from knowing folks who are from there, visited, et cetera. |
| 20:02.00 | Dagmar | Yep. Old Testament style, when religion was meant to be delivered with a fist because everyone lived in the bloody desert anyway |
| 20:02.32 | Nechckn | But.. as with the softening in places like Turkey, the chances more folks will stay intrenched are greater. |
| 20:02.36 | alestane | Religion doesn't have to be delivered through "divine" ordination to be religion. |
| 20:03.09 | Dagmar | A couple hunnert years later, some Anglo king starts to notice a correlation between progress and strictness and orders some people to go find some more mellow books. |
| 20:03.21 | Nechckn | Is that not the difference between Spiritual and Religion, though? |
| 20:03.33 | Fisker | hey Ackis |
| 20:03.44 | Fisker | not so hey Cairenn |
| 20:03.53 | Cairenn | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:04.01 | Nechckn | One is the sort of "God" talks to me, and the other is "God passed down the knowledge through books/people/other that are better than me"? |
| 20:04.02 | alestane | My observation has been than many reasonable and sincere followers of Christianity, Judaism and Islam express devoutness principally in order to be accepted in their communities, rather than through immediate fear that God will condemn them. |
| 20:04.05 | Dagmar | Nechckn: Among the iron-handers religion isn't religion unless they're they ones handing down the rules to someone else |
| 20:04.41 | alestane | Now you're getting into definition of terms, Nechckn, which was perhaps a glaring omission. |
| 20:04.43 | Dagmar | I used to really enjoy beating some folks (particularly Church of Christ) over the head with that one |
| 20:04.45 | Nechckn | Dagmar that is my basic thought, too. |
| 20:05.02 | Dagmar | They _freely_ refer to other religions as "cults" |
| 20:05.20 | Fisker | :( |
| 20:05.22 | alestane | I recommend the book "Rocks of Ages: Science and Religion in the Fullness of Life", by Stephen J. Gould. |
| 20:05.35 | Nechckn | alestane That was more a question about what you said re: what is religion. And, yes, it is not the same as the overall thought. |
| 20:05.36 | Dagmar | I recommend the Principia Discordia |
| 20:05.38 | zenzelezz | I wonder if during production or planning of The Phantom Menace anyone ever stopped to say "er... George... a kid? And Jar-Jar?" |
| 20:05.57 | alestane | A cult is a group engaged in practices different from your own, of which you do not approve. |
| 20:05.59 | Dagmar | ...because if your religious views are going to be based on fictional accounts, the least you can do is pick some fictional accounts everyone agrees are probably fictional. |
| 20:06.03 | Nechckn | I really wish someone would have... re Jar-Jar, zenzelezz |
| 20:06.53 | alestane | Superstition is someone else's metaphysical beliefs with which you disagree. |
| 20:07.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Stew-a (~Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 20:10.02 | alestane | But the summary of his book can mostly be distilled to "'Science' refers to the mechanisms by which we seek the answers to questions of fact. 'Religion' refers to the mechanisms by which we seek the answers to questions of worth." |
| 20:10.29 | Nechckn | Was just looking for what you meant, that is fine. Perhaps the overall question should be "Will Scientific Theories become the replacement for Religions' Supreme Beings?" I guess that cuts to the actual thought a bit more. |
| 20:10.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 20:10.42 | Dagmar | s/seek the answers to questions of worth/make up the answers/; |
| 20:10.45 | Fisker | oh nos |
| 20:10.54 | Dagmar | Nechckn: They can't |
| 20:10.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Gintaro (~Gintaro@cc1040670-a.gorre1.fr.home.nl) |
| 20:10.56 | Fisker | no beta in 1½ week :( |
| 20:11.06 | Dagmar | You can't "worship" a Law, you can only adhere to it. |
| 20:11.34 | Lopeppeppy | "And the less I seek my source for some definitive, the closer I am to fine." |
| 20:11.47 | Nechckn | In respect to their followings/treatment by people... I do not see why people cannot worship whatever they please, though. |
| 20:12.31 | Fisker | why would you bite me Cairenn ? |
| 20:12.31 | Nechckn | lol, nice Lopeppeppy =)( |
| 20:12.37 | Dagmar | Lopeppeppy: I went to their last show here |
| 20:12.40 | alestane | But insofar as we used for millennia used the postulate of supreme beings to explain the existence of the observed universe, yes, I believe scientific hypotheses have supplanted them in that regard in many minds. |
| 20:12.42 | Cairenn | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:12.43 | Nechckn | Because she is infected, Fisker |
| 20:12.43 | Dagmar | I only got the evil eye a few times |
| 20:12.45 | Nechckn | Look out!! |
| 20:13.08 | Fisker | You're like those cats that are all like "look at me, look at me i want attention" |
| 20:13.16 | Fisker | and when you give it any it just bites you :( |
| 20:13.25 | A-KO | like my cat, she is a whore for attention |
| 20:13.34 | A-KO | like...right now..jumping on my lap as soon as I get home and purring |
| 20:13.37 | alestane | Ah. Not familiar with the Indigo Girls. |
| 20:13.48 | Cairenn | But you didn't give me attention, you deliberately ignored me |
| 20:13.54 | Dagmar | Nechckn: If they worship as they please, it means they're not taking orders from the people who have invested a lot of time in making sure everyone believes what they say about religion |
| 20:13.58 | Nechckn | alestane That is the idea, anyway. ;-) And this does help to narrow the question a bit, thanks all! |
| 20:14.02 | alestane | gives Cairenn attention. |
| 20:14.07 | Dagmar | Organized religion is invatiably authoritarian |
| 20:14.07 | Cairenn | purrs at alestane |
| 20:14.12 | Dagmar | er invariably |
| 20:14.16 | Lopeppeppy | bites alestane. |
| 20:14.43 | alestane | Not invariably, but it is easily hijacked by people or institutions with authoritarian aims. |
| 20:14.48 | Nechckn | Daoist's are not quite that crazy. |
| 20:14.51 | Dagmar | alestane: Don't go to one of their shows wearing a shirt that mentions "mustache rides" or something |
| 20:15.05 | Nechckn | They do not really push others to join, or else. |
| 20:15.09 | Dagmar | Nechckn: They're also not that organized |
| 20:15.09 | alestane | I don't own any of those, Dagmar, I think I'm safe. |
| 20:15.48 | alestane | spritzes Lopeppeppy with the spray bottle. You got attention too! |
| 20:16.54 | Lopeppeppy | HEY! |
| 20:17.13 | Lopeppeppy | Never gonna purr at you again, mean monkey with the water in the face. |
| 20:17.41 | A-KO | wow my cat is purring her little butt off |
| 20:18.28 | alestane | Won't have to use that if you don't bite. |
| 20:20.11 | alestane | Can someone summarize for mean what it means for music or bands to be "indy"? My impression is that it seems to refer to a more populist outgrowth of the art rock movement; people who'd like to sound like Rush but haven't developed the required degree of classical musicianship. |
| 20:20.42 | Lopeppeppy | "indy". Independent. Not contracted to the major huge recording labels which suck the soul and life out of your music. |
| 20:20.45 | alestane | Or sometimes, bands that would be either "grunge" or "alternative" if they were published through bigger labels. |
| 20:20.46 | Dagmar | It means the label needed someone to cover that portion of the market. |
| 20:21.00 | Dagmar | ...although a more functional interpretation is that they're _not signed_ |
| 20:21.13 | Lopeppeppy | May be signed to other smaller labels. Often are edgy rock, punk rock, alternative, metal, grunge, folk, hippy weirdness music. |
| 20:21.28 | A-KO | You know the greatest thing about having a EU WoW account? |
| 20:21.32 | Lopeppeppy | "indie" has gotten a bit grey over the last few years. |
| 20:21.34 | A-KO | The cost of my WoW has gone down over the past 3 months :P |
| 20:21.36 | alestane | So, "We published our music ourselves because the record companies would never have made their advance back." |
| 20:21.52 | Lopeppeppy | Yes, that's one "indie" |
| 20:22.20 | alestane | Is it a genre of music/music culture, or just an economic status? |
| 20:22.24 | Lopeppeppy | Yes. |
| 20:22.24 | Dagmar | Lopeppeppy: No worse than "alternative" once the labels got the idea money was there |
| 20:22.34 | Antiarc | The co of my WoW account is negative :D |
| 20:22.37 | Antiarc | cost, even |
| 20:22.39 | Dagmar | alestane: It depends on whether or not you're buying or just listening |
| 20:22.41 | Lopeppeppy | Yeah, indie and alternative have kind of.... mind-melded a bit. |
| 20:23.07 | alestane | What's Lifehouse? |
| 20:23.13 | Lopeppeppy | Pop? |
| 20:23.27 | Dagmar | Probably some more shit some hippies came up with to make themselves feel special about whatever they're listening to at the moment |
| 20:23.34 | alestane | Definitely too well-known to be indie by now, of course. |
| 20:23.47 | Dagmar | Oh you mean a BAND |
| 20:23.52 | Nechckn | hides for not knowing what a Lifehouse is... |
| 20:23.55 | Lopeppeppy | Rock/Pop, I think of them like nickelback. |
| 20:24.04 | Dagmar | I'm too used to hearing people say "What's <generic term>-house then?" |
| 20:24.18 | *** join/#wowuidev merijn (~merijn@inconsistent.nl) |
| 20:24.22 | alestane | They only have two radio tracks I've heard, they're a second cousin or so to Nickelback. |
| 20:24.43 | Nechckn | Do they build them on rocky shoals to keep computer nerds from crashing their mother's basement? |
| 20:24.45 | alestane | "Breathing" and "Hanging by a Moment" are theirs. |
| 20:24.58 | Lopeppeppy | They've got at least 5 albums, a nice tour schedule... rock/pop. |
| 20:25.04 | Nechckn | Sounds actually kind of interesting, then.. |
| 20:25.07 | alestane | ^^ topic, Cairenn. |
| 20:25.33 | alestane | There's styles and styles under the rock/pop umbrella, though, Peppy. |
| 20:25.46 | AbsolutRayne | @_@ |
| 20:25.48 | merijn | Can anyone recommend a site with API documentation? I find the docs on wowwiki to be lacking... |
| 20:25.52 | alestane | What were they before they "sold out?" |
| 20:26.04 | Nechckn | http://wowprogramming.com merijn |
| 20:26.14 | alestane | Oh and by ^^, I mean "16:24 Nechckn: Do they build them on rocky shoals to keep computer nerds from crashing their mother's basement?" |
| 20:26.17 | Nechckn | tends to be right up to date and sexy. |
| 20:26.18 | merijn | Or a good intro to addon development for people that know ho to program, for that matter |
| 20:26.59 | Nechckn | ~wowprogramming |
| 20:27.00 | purl | it has been said that wowprogramming is World of Warcraft Programming: A Guide and Reference for Creating WoW Addons - http://is.gd/7A3Jx - a book written by Cladhaire and Gazmik, or the companion site and API reference available online for free at http://wowprogramming.com |
| 20:27.01 | Dagmar | alestane: Partaking of fat groupies |
| 20:27.10 | Dagmar | Labels can hire "professional" groupies |
| 20:27.23 | merijn | Nechckn: Thanks, I'll check it out |
| 20:27.42 | alestane | Most of what I know about "indie" comes from reading "Questionable Content," which means that it boils down to, "The fewer people have heard of the bands you like, the cooler you are." |
| 20:27.44 | Nechckn | For seriously, merijn, check that out. WoWWiki may have some more discussion about certain things, but that is very up to date and all. |
| 20:28.00 | Arrowmaster | alestane: i thought that was hipster |
| 20:28.13 | alestane | Or sometimes, "The longer you've been listening to the group your friend now thinks is very cool, the awesomer you are." |
| 20:28.24 | merijn | alestane: That goes in metal and techno scenes too :p |
| 20:29.22 | alestane | It sounds like a noticeable part of it is "Not catering to the lowest common denominator." |
| 20:29.26 | Ackis | One of our cats was rescued after someone set him on fire and we named him Crispy," says Dr. Johnson. "Our other cat was found after it was shot with an arrow and we named her Cupid." |
| 20:29.36 | Ackis | lol |
| 20:29.41 | Ackis | http://www.pawnation.com/2010/05/14/what-your-vet-thinks-about-your-pets-name-and-about-you/ |
| 20:29.57 | Nechckn | lol, very nice! |
| 20:30.08 | Lopeppeppy | My cats are Kendra Sue Mooseling Mischiefbutt, and Rosiekins Frankencat Monsterface. |
| 20:30.29 | alestane | Tangent: Lowest common denominator is a useless concept, because it's always 1. The one of mathematical interest are the greatest common denominators. Of course, I suspect that's the point of the saying. |
| 20:31.22 | alestane | I think you said once why your cat's name was Kendra, at the same time you said you called her Moose because she isn't one, which is honestly as good a reason as any. |
| 20:31.59 | Nechckn | "Labrador retriever named Hannah Montana" Finally, someone got one right!! |
| 20:32.01 | alestane | entices Peppy with a milk pull strip. |
| 20:32.02 | Ackis | I think my first online "name" was |Moose| |
| 20:32.54 | Lopeppeppy | She came to me as Kendra, the Vampire Slayer!!!!! |
| 20:33.12 | Lopeppeppy | anyway. hometime |
| 20:33.15 | Ackis | ciao |
| 20:34.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh_ (~Srosh@d057220.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 20:34.38 | mascondante | Shadowed you there? |
| 20:34.48 | Shadowed | mascondante what's up |
| 20:34.58 | Fisker | Shadowed the impaler |
| 20:35.04 | Fisker | Ackis the not so impaler |
| 20:35.44 | mascondante | lol nm I am curious what you use to set your version numbers. Random curiosity lol |
| 20:35.57 | Ackis | I impaled Fisker last night |
| 20:35.59 | Ackis | with my penis |
| 20:36.10 | Thunder_Child | how was that for you Ackis? |
| 20:36.11 | mascondante | nice haha |
| 20:36.14 | Shadowed | on wowi? |
| 20:36.17 | Shadowed | just a script |
| 20:36.22 | mascondante | SUF |
| 20:36.30 | Ackis | meh I've had better Thunder_Child |
| 20:36.48 | Thunder_Child | Ackis: and according to Fisker, so had he |
| 20:36.53 | Fisker | awesome Ackis |
| 20:37.06 | mascondante | ah. I saw it looked like a hash I was jw |
| 20:37.39 | Shadowed | oh the hash? |
| 20:37.44 | Shadowed | that's just git |
| 20:37.46 | mascondante | yeah |
| 20:37.49 | Shadowed | a version control system |
| 20:38.03 | mascondante | ah neat |
| 20:38.21 | Ackis | hmm |
| 20:38.46 | Ackis | grammatically wise, is it correct to say "burned to disc" or "copied to disc" when talking about CD's? |
| 20:38.48 | Lunessa | loves password reset week, and grades week. And by 'loves' I really mean "would rather hit my face with a mallet" |
| 20:39.26 | Dagmar | Ackis: burned |
| 20:39.53 | Dagmar | ...in part because "copied" implies you're keeping exact duplicates around for some reason |
| 20:39.56 | Nechckn | Ackis I often wonder how/where folks get their names, not so much in-game anymore, where most new ones seem to be just last-second-crap, but for semi-permanent use. |
| 20:40.17 | alestane | Nah, Lunessa, that would feel good when you stopped. |
| 20:40.28 | Ackis | Nechckn: Ackis came from a Star Wars Galaxies random name generator |
| 20:40.42 | Dagmar | Most people aren't duplicating what they put on an optical disc--whether or not there are other copies are irrelvant because they're basically just "re-homing" the data to the optical media, like when you make someone a mix CD |
| 20:40.57 | mascondante | love SUF btw. Very simple. A lot of peope are all about xperl and grid but it's not as... eloquent I guess it the word I'm looking for |
| 20:41.09 | Dagmar | Grammar isn't as big of a deal as semantics |
| 20:41.16 | mascondante | as your frames |
| 20:41.25 | Nechckn | Ackis as good of a place as any. =) |
| 20:41.29 | Ackis | Dagmar: but does "burned to CD" have a different meaning than "copied to CD" to someone who doesn't use computers? |
| 20:41.58 | Dagmar | If your target is illiterate, you should probably use "written to CD"" |
| 20:42.00 | Nechckn | Who uses CDs anymore? |
| 20:42.10 | Lunessa | Ackis: Aren't we the wrong target audience for that question? |
| 20:42.11 | mascondante | haha |
| 20:42.14 | Nechckn | bum, bum, bum... |
| 20:42.25 | mascondante | ~poke nechckn |
| 20:42.26 | purl | ACTION cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind nechckn, pokes nechckn repeatedly, hilarity ensues. |
| 20:42.33 | Nechckn | watch it, you. |
| 20:42.41 | mascondante | hehe :-p |
| 20:42.42 | Ackis | Lunessa: I thought about that before asking, but I don't have a target audience who I can ask :P |
| 20:44.38 | *** join/#wowuidev PfhorSlayer (~dbarrie@174-31-245-27.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 20:44.57 | Lunessa | fires up Peter Gabriel to restore some sanity. |
| 20:46.03 | mascondante | wonders what's so good about sanity |
| 20:46.46 | Fisker | the tournament must go on Ackis |
| 20:46.55 | *** part/#wowuidev merijn (~merijn@inconsistent.nl) |
| 20:47.27 | *** join/#wowuidev merijn (~merijn@inconsistent.nl) |
| 20:47.28 | Lunessa | mascondante: Having mine prevents me from being the next Gacey. |
| 20:47.30 | *** part/#wowuidev merijn (~merijn@inconsistent.nl) |
| 20:47.51 | mascondante | ha |
| 20:48.45 | Nechckn | The next Macey Grey, Lunessa? |
| 20:48.55 | alestane | So Lunessa, the guy next to me at the tech desk was playing Civ IV all weekend. I now feel compelled to reinstall Civ III. |
| 20:49.00 | Nechckn | oh.. Gacey... got it. =P |
| 20:49.01 | Lunessa | Nechckn: John Wayne Gacey |
| 20:49.14 | Fisker | why civ 3 alestane ? |
| 20:49.19 | Nechckn | Singer, serial killer, is ther really much of a difference? |
| 20:49.21 | alestane | Because I have it. |
| 20:49.31 | Lunessa | alestane: Do you have Civ IV and haven't told me? We could play head to head? |
| 20:49.40 | alestane | I don't. |
| 20:49.44 | Lunessa | ... |
| 20:49.48 | Lunessa | does you wants? |
| 20:49.58 | alestane | I watched over his shoulder when I wasn't watching the slides. |
| 20:50.09 | alestane | The religion thing is interesting. |
| 20:50.19 | Dagmar | Unless I misread they made a rule change in IV I really don't care for |
| 20:50.25 | Lunessa | it's an interesting change to the mechanics. |
| 20:50.38 | Ackis | Civ 4 + expansions was on sale on steam recently, may still be |
| 20:50.40 | Ackis | ps Fisker sucks |
| 20:50.43 | Dagmar | I thikn that if you're the first one to research how to make nuclear bombs, you should be the ONLY faction to have them |
| 20:50.44 | alestane | And the way they implement governments seems a lot more flexible. |
| 20:50.57 | Dagmar | Ackis: Not for ten bucks anymore |
| 20:51.14 | Dagmar | Now it seems that once someone researches nukes, everyone knows how to make them |
| 20:51.26 | Dagmar | So... no more racing to nuke technology for the armageddawin |
| 20:51.59 | Lunessa | alestane: I have every version of Civ. |
| 20:52.01 | GoldenAxe | i like civ revolutions its a ps3 version based on civ 1. |
| 20:52.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Aqua (~Aquavette@74-143-225-146.static.insightbb.com) |
| 20:52.16 | Lunessa | I have to make myself NOT install it in order to get anything else done, ever. |
| 20:52.31 | Lunessa | Hell, I installed the damned iPhone version. |
| 20:52.35 | Dagmar | GoldenAxe: Yeah the action figure animations on that are real pretty, but the scenarios are actually rather short |
| 20:53.05 | alestane | Actually, touchscreen devices seem like a good target platform for strategy games. SC2 on the iPad? |
| 20:53.25 | Ackis | GoldenAxe: also for the xbox 360 |
| 20:53.26 | GoldenAxe | its way too simple but its fun yeah |
| 20:54.05 | Dagmar | Ah doon' like the "warlord" leaders they added with the expansions |
| 20:54.13 | Dagmar | THey're annoying. |
| 20:54.36 | Dagmar | I'm trying to build my cities up and they keep bothering me and making me have to waste turns building tanks |
| 20:55.05 | Dagmar | At least unlike riflemen versus archers, tanks versus cavalry works out pretty much one and only one way |
| 20:55.59 | Dagmar | four inch shell versus platemail on a horse == *messy* |
| 20:56.14 | mascondante | Nechckn: rofl you make a good point |
| 21:02.52 | Nechckn | I have just about all the CIVs, too. But I really like SimCity2K. /shrug |
| 21:03.36 | Nechckn | Know there are a few like that, but I tend to like the ability to dwell on minutia in them, when the feeling strikes me. |
| 21:05.26 | Lunessa | Civ and it's later versions get some crap for features that are silly in time-scale or level of abstraction (air craft that took a year to get somewhere? WTF? ) but the game was fun and compelling to me. |
| 21:05.59 | Nechckn | Lol, that is a Looooong flight! |
| 21:08.09 | Lunessa | Turns had a variable number of years assigned to them. Aircraft took a turn to get anywhere. Ergo, year-long flights. |
| 21:11.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 21:11.44 | Cide | Shirik :( |
| 21:12.00 | Cide | blizzard is breaking up our sc2 party |
| 21:12.08 | Kraps | http://www.cad-comic.com/sillies/ |
| 21:13.02 | ZorbaBeta | lunessa, there's a breed of people who believe realism is more important than fun |
| 21:13.16 | Lunessa | ZorbaBeta: I am not one of those people. :P |
| 21:13.24 | ZorbaBeta | it's those same people who prefer UO's inventory system over WoW's |
| 21:13.34 | Kraps | http://www.thedailyblink.com/2010/05/forsaken-accused-of-racism/ |
| 21:13.36 | ZorbaBeta | because, you know, if your bag is cluttered then of course you'll have trouble finding things! |
| 21:13.49 | Lunessa | Or I wouldn't play games where people throw fire from their hands and can turn into other things. |
| 21:15.01 | Lunessa | And I played EQ for 5.5 years. I understand all about "realistic" UI mechanics which suck the fun out of everything. |
| 21:15.14 | alestane | Like how one of my friends called me on the fact that I din't blink at Aeris being able to use magic in the first place, but kept being puzzled at the way the air conveniently held her staff for her while she cast. |
| 21:15.16 | ZorbaBeta | yeah, I personally think realism is terrible |
| 21:15.38 | ZorbaBeta | it can be a helpful shorthand, since we do expect certain things |
| 21:15.42 | ZorbaBeta | but it should always take a back seat to fun |
| 21:16.04 | alestane | There are games, and there are simulations. Sometimes the two overlap, but they should not be confused. |
| 21:16.26 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 21:16.30 | Lunessa | Yeah - How long can you hold your breath underwater in games? How many people can do that shit for real? |
| 21:16.47 | alestane | How far can YOU swim in pate armor? |
| 21:16.49 | alestane | plate* |
| 21:16.58 | Lunessa | alestane: Not at all. |
| 21:17.11 | alestane | Generally, as far as the water is deep. |
| 21:17.42 | Ackis | "Today, my girlfriend walked in on me being a ninja with her black underwear. We're not dating anymore. FML " why does that make me think of Fisker? |
| 21:17.48 | Lunessa | I would rapidly find myself on the bottom, and trying to extract oxygen from it's hydrogen-rich matrix... |
| 21:21.13 | Kraps | ok, if i know you irl but not what you call yourself on facebook, can you please say who you are in your friend request? |
| 21:22.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Aelobin (~Aelobin@85.211.88.213) |
| 21:22.30 | Ackis | Kraps: I'm ackis |
| 21:22.32 | Ackis | who are you? |
| 21:22.40 | Kraps | no |
| 21:22.42 | Ackis | I think I had some recommendations from cogwheel that I just accepted |
| 21:23.15 | Ackis | did someone who looks like an orc add you?!?!?! |
| 21:23.22 | Nechckn | One of my friends told me they had 10 recommendations from me, although I did not send 'em. |
| 21:23.31 | Lunessa | If anyone needs another annoying Facebook 'freind' I'm on as Matt Converse. :P |
| 21:23.40 | Kraps | Ackis: no, you dont have my info |
| 21:23.50 | Nechckn | No idea if it is a systemic thing, but, something to keep in mind when accepting recommendations, I guess. |
| 21:24.09 | NiLon | Lunessa ok thanks, what's your credit card number? |
| 21:24.13 | Ackis | Lunessa: I know eh! |
| 21:24.25 | Lunessa | NilLon 12233322FuckYourself. |
| 21:24.42 | Nechckn | Lunessa Only if you promise to mute me. |
| 21:24.48 | Ackis | Kraps: nah I just had cogwheel recommend friends to me and I added them, we share a lot of friends in common and they're all from the UI community so I figure I know them somehow |
| 21:24.58 | mascondante | oh shadowed one more thing: I've been getting a odd tooltip pop up in the top left of my screen of some random item that won't go away for a little while on my alt. think that might be SUF or something else? |
| 21:25.07 | Shadowed | doubt it |
| 21:25.10 | Shadowed | are you using gearscore |
| 21:25.15 | mascondante | yeah |
| 21:25.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan (~pancake@cpe-174-098-002-214.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 21:25.29 | Kraps | <---- is not from the UI community |
| 21:25.32 | Shadowed | It wouldn't surprise me if it's gearscore then |
| 21:25.50 | Fisker | no me cid |
| 21:25.51 | Nechckn | cues the bum, bum, buuuuuum groundhog. |
| 21:25.52 | Fisker | ffffuuuuuuuuuuu |
| 21:25.52 | mascondante | ah gotcha |
| 21:26.15 | mascondante | haha funny video |
| 21:26.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Cide@c213-100-51-33.swipnet.se) |
| 21:26.24 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 21:27.22 | Cide | hi |
| 21:27.27 | Ackis | ~lart Kraps |
| 21:27.27 | purl | offers Kraps some herring |
| 21:27.45 | Kraps | no thanks purl |
| 21:27.51 | Cide | Arrowmaster: ping? |
| 21:27.59 | Arrowmaster | ? |
| 21:28.24 | Cide | regarding removing my other kernel last night... are there a bunch of applications associated with it? |
| 21:28.32 | Adys | http://www.cad-comic.com/sillies/20100429 |
| 21:28.34 | Cide | or are they all kernel-independent? |
| 21:28.42 | Arrowmaster | kernel independent |
| 21:28.42 | Cide | or mostly rather |
| 21:28.57 | Cide | so can you think of a reason why apt-get says I have a bunch of unneeded applications |
| 21:29.00 | Cide | and wants me to auto-remove them |
| 21:29.08 | Adys | like which? |
| 21:29.13 | Cide | like a shitton |
| 21:29.20 | Cide | trying to pastey but can't access pastey.net |
| 21:29.21 | alestane | If any of your packages require a specific kernel, they should properly mark it as a dependency. |
| 21:29.40 | Adys | what distro Cide? debian? |
| 21:29.49 | Cide | yes |
| 21:29.52 | Cide | http://dpaste.com/195866/ |
| 21:30.07 | Cide | there's stuff like gdm in there |
| 21:30.09 | Adys | i think they force at least one kernel installed by default |
| 21:30.27 | Adys | either that |
| 21:30.29 | Arrowmaster | Cide: do you have the gnome package installed? |
| 21:30.33 | Adys | or you removed a big fat metapackage |
| 21:30.45 | Cide | I haven't removed anything recently |
| 21:30.52 | Cide | except the old kernel |
| 21:30.57 | Adys | yeah actually Arrowmaster is right, this looks like gnome stuff |
| 21:30.59 | Fisker | Cide |
| 21:31.00 | Fisker | bitchduck |
| 21:31.52 | Cide | Arrowmaster: looks like no |
| 21:32.00 | Cide | not sure why I wouldn't |
| 21:32.10 | Arrowmaster | something removed it then |
| 21:32.18 | Cide | the old kernel? |
| 21:32.23 | Cide | like I haven't touched this stuff |
| 21:32.35 | Cide | well, I did install gv and then remove gv |
| 21:32.40 | Cide | but that doesn't seem like it should be volatile |
| 21:33.17 | Cide | going to restart and make sure nothing got screwed up, brb |
| 21:35.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Cide@c213-100-51-33.swipnet.se) |
| 21:35.57 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 21:36.11 | Cide | looks like I for once managed to not screw things up |
| 21:36.12 | Cide | thanks |
| 21:36.16 | Thunder_Child | "Choose Password (max 10 characters)" "Error: Your password must contain between 8 and 14 characters." >.< |
| 21:36.59 | Arrowmaster | Cide: did you reinstall the gnome metapackage? |
| 21:38.45 | Arrowmaster | Cide: btw in aptitude, at the bottom under Tasks, End-user, everything listed under GNOME desktop environment and Graphical desktop environment should be installed by default |
| 21:39.20 | Cide | yes, I reinstalled gnome |
| 21:40.30 | Kraps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGM8PT1eAvY&feature=channel |
| 21:43.55 | Fisker | i destroy u for free |
| 21:46.34 | Cide | Arrowmaster: yeah, almost nothing was automatically installed |
| 21:46.46 | Cide | I guess when I did "install gnome" it flagged everything as installed manually |
| 21:47.23 | Arrowmaster | most things arent marked as automatically installed when they are installed with the OS |
| 21:48.05 | Cide | ah |
| 21:48.12 | Arrowmaster | when you do "install gnome" it will not mark anything except gnome as being manually installed |
| 21:48.53 | Cide | oh, ok |
| 21:50.53 | Dagmar | Their dependency tree is pretty minimalist |
| 21:51.11 | Dagmar | You're probably better off pointing at some big app and getting all the dependencies that wya |
| 21:51.27 | Dagmar | Something expansive like Evolution |
| 21:52.07 | Dagmar | 'bout 12 years ago when I first tried Debian I ran into that because I told it to install "X" like I was told |
| 21:52.22 | Dagmar | I got an x-server and some dependent libs. |
| 21:52.32 | Dagmar | Nothing else. Not even twm. |
| 21:52.49 | Cide | nice |
| 21:53.09 | Cide | well, everything seems to be properly dependicised (yes, totally a word) now |
| 21:53.38 | Dagmar | Yeah I went back to the guy from GA Tech who swore to me that it was that simple with a big fat WTF |
| 21:55.29 | ajmitch | this is why ubuntu was made |
| 21:55.48 | Arrowmaster | i dont have gnome installed, just gnome-desktop-environment, so i dont have to put up with the crap the gnome metapackage depends on like epiphany, synaptic, and transmission |
| 21:56.01 | Arrowmaster | ubuntu was made for people too stupid to use debian |
| 21:56.13 | Cide | <-- |
| 21:56.32 | Arrowmaster | thats a quote on #debian's instance of purl |
| 21:57.10 | Cide | Arrowmaster: yeah, I wouldn't mind getting rid of epiphany |
| 21:57.19 | Cide | but I can live with it for now |
| 22:01.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Pytlask (~c64a263b@gateway/web/freenode/x-gofqpyrwvofqxnro) |
| 22:02.19 | Fisker | copyright infringement Kraps |
| 22:03.00 | Kraps | Fisker Ackis |
| 22:08.27 | Fisker | Kraps Cide |
| 22:11.11 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (spode@213.21.119.83) |
| 22:22.10 | Kraps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU6ntX7Dar4 |
| 22:22.26 | Pneumatus | ubuntu is for people that like debian but can't wait 3 decades for updated binaries |
| 22:23.08 | Arrowmaster | people dont use debian stable for desktops very often |
| 22:23.48 | Arrowmaster | and for those that do theres backports.org |
| 22:25.04 | Pneumatus | i dunno, tomcat6 was a prime example, took ages to make it into a debian release |
| 22:25.52 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (spode@213.21.119.83) |
| 22:25.55 | Fisker | good night Arrowmaster |
| 22:26.11 | Pneumatus | infact, it might not even be in stable yet |
| 22:26.36 | Arrowmaster | check packages.debian.org |
| 22:26.43 | Arrowmaster | ive got to leave for class |
| 22:27.13 | Pneumatus | yeh, its not in stable |
| 22:27.20 | *** join/#wowuidev daev` (~bleh@pool-72-86-116-158.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 22:37.31 | Fisker | ~seen Antiarc |
| 22:37.33 | purl | antiarc is currently on #wowuidev (23h 59m 46s) #wowace (23h 59m 46s) #curseforge (23h 59m 46s). Has said a total of 44 messages. Is idling for 2h 14m 56s, last said: 'cost, even'. |
| 22:37.38 | Fisker | :O |
| 22:37.45 | Antiarc | hi fisker |
| 22:38.09 | Fisker | no! |
| 22:38.17 | Fisker | Froyo on wednesday? ;3 |
| 22:39.10 | AbsolutRayne | Ive gotten into 5 Random BGs now that were all in Progess. All of which have been Alliance losing terribly. |
| 22:39.15 | AbsolutRayne | Sometimes I really wish I rerolled. |
| 22:39.23 | Fisker | bam |
| 22:42.03 | Kraps | you and me both AbsolutRayne |
| 22:42.25 | Lunessa | I always hear about how the horde just steam-rolls battle grounds. I don't have this experience. I see a much more balanced number of games. /shrug |
| 22:42.39 | AbsolutRayne | What BG are you on? |
| 22:42.45 | AbsolutRayne | So I can Xfer to it. |
| 22:42.56 | Lunessa | Rampage I think |
| 22:43.12 | Kraps | Lunessa: i agree actually |
| 22:43.23 | Lunessa | Yeah, Rampage. |
| 22:43.34 | Lunessa | We have Cho'gall and Illidan in the mix. |
| 22:44.13 | Lunessa | http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/pvp/battlegrounds/battlegroups/ |
| 22:44.59 | Kraps | my priest is on stormstrike |
| 22:45.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Nechckn_AFK (~N@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Admin/Nechckn) |
| 22:45.23 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Nechckn_AFK] by ChanServ |
| 22:45.25 | Kraps | epic fail |
| 22:45.47 | AbsolutRayne | Bloodlust here. |
| 22:45.51 | AbsolutRayne | As bad as everyone says it is. |
| 22:45.58 | Lunessa | Kirin Tor world pvp is pretty much non-existant or confined to griefing some fool who is flagged in the wrong place. But in Battlegrounds I don't loose so often that it feels like I'm always losing. Except in WSG. Which sucks donkey balls anyway. |
| 22:46.09 | KarlKFI|work | http://www.warcraftrealms.com/bg_list.php |
| 22:46.14 | KarlKFI|work | you can look up the stats |
| 22:46.36 | KarlKFI|work | AV is the only even one |
| 22:47.07 | KarlKFI|work | which ironically might be because the alliance has an advantage based on the geography |
| 22:47.17 | Lunessa | Yeah, but those stats are suspect since the sampling basis is heavy, |
| 22:47.31 | Lunessa | I mean bias, not basis |
| 22:48.15 | KarlKFI|work | bloodlust looks fairly even |
| 22:48.40 | KarlKFI|work | rampage actually has alliance on top |
| 22:48.48 | Nechckn | But that is about the only place that tracks "stats", no? |
| 22:49.09 | Nechckn | Realize it is limited by when the folks poll with CensusPlus, but better than nothing. |
| 22:49.13 | Lunessa | Yeah, as long as you're running their addon and uploading data |
| 22:49.34 | Nechckn | usually forgets. |
| 22:50.08 | Lunessa | that's why I look those results over with a jaundiced eye. |
| 22:50.16 | KarlKFI|work | I'm on Nightfall and it seems each side has their own bgs that they're better at |
| 22:50.53 | KarlKFI|work | horde wins wsg, alliance wins eots, ect |
| 22:51.14 | Kraps | i hate wsg |
| 22:51.32 | foxlit | I like wsg |
| 22:51.35 | KarlKFI|work | aye, that's generally what causes dichotomies like that |
| 22:51.49 | KarlKFI|work | some guild vows to never play bg x |
| 22:51.53 | Lunessa | WSG is like sticking your face in a meat-grinder. |
| 22:52.12 | foxlit | Hate IOC, though |
| 22:52.17 | foxlit | That place is a design nightmare. |
| 22:52.22 | GoldenAxe | lol i got 36 kbs on wsg the other day. i was the meat grinder. |
| 22:53.00 | Kraps | everything is the same color and the uneven terrain makes it impossible to see anything |
| 22:53.06 | GoldenAxe | on my battlegroup, retaliation, ally only wins AV reliably. |
| 22:53.22 | foxlit | IOC is like the combination of the worst design elements from every other battleground. |
| 22:53.34 | Nechckn | I like AV of all of 'em... older AV, especially, but still not horrible. |
| 22:53.56 | Nechckn | If not horrible == good that is. |
| 22:54.38 | foxlit | PvE boss fight? Check. Cannons with awkward geometry? Check. 40 player mess? Check. |
| 22:55.00 | GoldenAxe | on my server ally mainly just lets horde take workshop and blacksmith. |
| 22:55.05 | GoldenAxe | cuz we wont win anyway. |
| 22:55.08 | GoldenAxe | usually. |
| 22:55.37 | Nechckn | I can take or leave AB. Sometimes it is okay, others.. not so much. |
| 22:55.39 | foxlit | workshop is in IoC, and blacksmith is in AB :) |
| 22:56.02 | GoldenAxe | yeah, but both are central and pretty good places to win from i think? idk ioc very well. |
| 22:56.11 | Nechckn | I play on different servers, so when it gets dry on one, I just move to another. |
| 22:57.27 | foxlit | Actually like LM better than BS. Gives a better view of the battlefield; and who cares about going to mine anyway. |
| 22:57.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Osagasu (~Creek@67-197-1-37.rh1.dyn.cm.comporium.net) |
| 22:58.17 | Thunder_Child | did bliz ever give a reason as to why they dont allow bg queueing in a raid? |
| 22:59.08 | Dagmar | Probably got something to do with not liking it |
| 22:59.18 | Dagmar | WHy would you raid if you're in a BG queue |
| 22:59.37 | Dagmar | All you'll do is cause the thing to start yammering to other people "Okay, cleeks here to join now that we've got enough people" |
| 22:59.46 | Thunder_Child | it would be to get a premade into a large bg |
| 22:59.57 | Thunder_Child | w/o having to go through an addon |
| 23:00.13 | Dagmar | Oh you mean for that |
| 23:00.41 | Dagmar | Probably because that would eliminate wins for one side or the other |
| 23:01.20 | Thunder_Child | premades do that anyway |
| 23:01.37 | Thunder_Child | assuming you have a sliver of a brain anyway |
| 23:02.06 | Dagmar | Yeah but at least either side is likely to have more than one 5-man going |
| 23:02.22 | Lunessa | Meh, I don't pvp well, or often. But I've been doing it more lately for achievements. |
| 23:02.27 | Dagmar | One 25 or 40 and your little 5-mans are probably effed |
| 23:02.31 | Thunder_Child | i mean a 5-man premade in wsg is usually a win |
| 23:02.35 | Lunessa | goddamned children's week |
| 23:02.51 | Thunder_Child | even in ab it's usually a win |
| 23:02.52 | Dagmar | Don' wanna hear it |
| 23:03.04 | Dagmar | The flood took out my power nad I missed *all* of Children's Week |
| 23:03.25 | Thunder_Child | if you pvp thats a good thing |
| 23:03.39 | Lunessa | Sorry Dagmar. |
| 23:03.52 | Lunessa | It took me two years of the event to finish the thing. |
| 23:04.22 | Dagmar | All I wanted was the little lizard guy |
| 23:04.31 | Dagmar | er wolvar |
| 23:04.48 | Dagmar | ...but after reading the forums I see it probably doesn't matter anyway, since they didn't reset that quest properly |
| 23:05.33 | Dagmar | This morning's Dramatic Sleep Interruption was a frelling bulldozer at 7:30am |
| 23:05.38 | Adys | WHATTTTTTTTTTTTT |
| 23:05.39 | Adys | "In the Champions' Hall, there are NPCs named Captain O'Neal, Lieutenant Karter, Lieutenant Jackspring, Sergeant Major Clate, Guard Quine and Guard Hammon" |
| 23:05.42 | Adys | I never noticed |
| 23:05.42 | Adys | :( |
| 23:05.53 | Dagmar | ..but at least it wasn't pushing it's way through my bedroom window, Arthur Dent style |
| 23:05.58 | Adys | ive been going here every damn day for the past months |
| 23:06.03 | Adys | i NEVER NOTICED |
| 23:06.10 | Dagmar | Adys: Reeding |
| 23:06.44 | Dagmar | NPCs aren't just vending machines, man. |
| 23:06.49 | Dagmar | NPCs are people too. |
| 23:06.51 | Adys | man |
| 23:07.11 | Adys | you know i'm even more shocked than when i found out the auctioneer in SW was called Auctioneer Chilton |
| 23:07.49 | Dagmar | WEll, god forbid you notice the Stephanie Turner |
| 23:08.23 | Adys | i dont get that one |
| 23:08.29 | Dagmar | She's a ho |
| 23:08.36 | Dagmar | It's okay to objectify there. |
| 23:08.43 | Adys | okay. |
| 23:08.56 | Dagmar | How 'bout Warden Lolol? You noticed *him*, right? |
| 23:09.15 | Adys | well yeah obviously |
| 23:09.15 | Adys | and |
| 23:09.20 | Adys | hes not called that anymore |
| 23:09.34 | Dagmar | I'm not sure BFF Jill is all that much better |
| 23:10.06 | Lunessa | I run with names turned off. I only see them when I target them or mouseover. |
| 23:10.25 | Adys | here is one i bet you never noticed |
| 23:10.45 | Adys | until patch 1.3, entering dire maul would error with "You Shall not Pass!" |
| 23:11.06 | Dagmar | I wasn't even playing then |
| 23:11.36 | Dagmar | I was in CB, but had some stuff to sort out before I could commit to it after release. TOok about six months |
| 23:11.47 | Dagmar | ...then eventually I remembered. |
| 23:12.32 | Dagmar | First time I went in Dire Maul it was empty actually. |
| 23:12.36 | Dagmar | Blinked through the door. |
| 23:12.47 | Dagmar | So.... no error then. :) |
| 23:13.29 | Adys | i may still have the screenshot |
| 23:18.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Slackwise (~slackwise@c-98-228-240-33.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 23:24.55 | Adys | Dagmar: was trying to find it |
| 23:24.56 | Adys | http://worldofwarcraft.judgehype.com/images.php?img=596&t=al |
| 23:25.00 | Adys | does bring back memories. |
| 23:28.13 | davis | how many debuffs can be on a player? wowprogramming reference says debuff takes an index. But does not give range for the index. I read somewhere about 40. So does it vary between 1 and 40? |
| 23:29.30 | Adys | the debuff cap is serverside |
| 23:29.37 | Adys | currently afaik its 40 |
| 23:30.11 | Cloudwolf | adys alos memories of getting ontop of the wsg bases XD |
| 23:30.48 | davis | so if i vary "i" from 1 to 40, I should get a hit when I do this? |
| 23:30.52 | davis | name, rank, icon, count, dispelType, duration, expires =UnitDebuff(arg1,i,"CANCELABLE"); |
| 23:31.08 | davis | i am using arg1 as "player" |
| 23:31.20 | Cloudwolf | if your looping you can also break the loop once it returns nil |
| 23:31.54 | Adys | sigh |
| 23:32.01 | Adys | why does the gimp depend on webkit-gtk |
| 23:32.06 | davis | so if you ahve three debufs it will be index 1-3? |
| 23:32.15 | Adys | !api unitdebuff |
| 23:32.16 | lua_bot | Found 2 possible results for 'unitdebuff': UnitDebuff, GameTooltip:SetUnitDebuff |
| 23:32.29 | Adys | davis: http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/UnitDebuff |
| 23:32.31 | davis | i thought it might be debuf'd by spell number or something. |
| 23:32.35 | davis | i am looking at that |
| 23:32.40 | Adys | no, they dont use spell ids |
| 23:32.50 | davis | like i said, it does not give range for index. |
| 23:33.07 | davis | but i apprecaite the link |
| 23:33.13 | WobWork | Ackis: I find @drunkhulk more entertaining than @xdressinghulk |
| 23:33.23 | WobWork | less gimmicky, as it were =P |
| 23:33.33 | Adys | davis: theres no range, its capped serverside as i said |
| 23:33.50 | Adys | and currently, afaik, it's 40 |
| 23:33.54 | davis | ok |
| 23:33.57 | davis | gotcha |
| 23:34.15 | davis | so if you ahve three debuff's dont matter what, they will be 1,2 and 3? |
| 23:34.28 | Cloudwolf | davis would you like to see my example? keep in mind im not sure how efficient it is but it works to the extent of my knowledge. |
| 23:34.47 | davis | sure |
| 23:34.57 | Cloudwolf | http://www.pastey.net/136571 |
| 23:36.32 | davis | cool thanks |
| 23:36.37 | Adys | aha |
| 23:36.38 | Adys | found it |
| 23:36.51 | Adys | Dagmar: http://db.mmo-champion.com/adys/dm.jpg |
| 23:36.59 | Adys | my GOD the game was ugly. |
| 23:37.07 | Cloudwolf | lol at you shall not pass |
| 23:37.29 | Cloudwolf | What is your quest? |
| 23:37.35 | Cloudwolf | what is your favorite color! |
| 23:37.43 | Dagmar | Ah... I've got screenshots of the place being empty (as well as Zul'Farrak) but they're on a DVD somewhere |
| 23:38.04 | Adys | haha detect magic. |
| 23:38.05 | Kraps | Adys: when is that from? |
| 23:38.09 | Dagmar | I'm almost ashamed of the fact that only last year I finally got around to sneaking into Old Ironforge |
| 23:38.11 | Cloudwolf | >< funny i never ran dire maul |
| 23:38.11 | Adys | Kraps: 1.2.something |
| 23:38.12 | Cloudwolf | ever |
| 23:38.15 | davis | i need to test this some more. something is odd. thanks for the tip. |
| 23:38.50 | Kraps | the models looked like that? >.< |
| 23:39.03 | Kraps | runescape |
| 23:39.06 | Adys | which models? |
| 23:39.15 | Kraps | player |
| 23:39.23 | Dagmar | Runescape has always looked ugly |
| 23:39.25 | Adys | those didnt change |
| 23:39.34 | Cloudwolf | kraps player models are still pretty much the same |
| 23:39.40 | Adys | im just wearing the clown suit from Back Then |
| 23:39.41 | Cloudwolf | hair styles have been added buuuut |
| 23:39.43 | Cloudwolf | not much else |
| 23:39.44 | Dagmar | It's the _lighting_ that changed substantially |
| 23:39.51 | Kraps | idk, looks worse |
| 23:39.57 | Dagmar | Everyone dressed like Imanewbie back then |
| 23:40.38 | Dagmar | Kraps: The lighting change was pretty huge |
| 23:40.40 | WobWork | that's what was so sad about DKs in C |
| 23:40.41 | Kraps | epic spaced exclamation mark |
| 23:40.41 | WobWork | BC |
| 23:40.53 | Dagmar | I ran laps around Ironforge just gawping at it when they put that on the PTR |
| 23:40.59 | WobWork | we had to go from the awesome starter gear coordination |
| 23:41.03 | WobWork | to KLOWNSUIT |
| 23:41.40 | Cloudwolf | lol |
| 23:41.59 | Adys | Nostalgia aside, I'll get you a new screenshot to compare. Just as soon as I'm done solo-farming baron rivendare 5 times per hour for the 1% drop mount. I two-shot him with my 25k crits as frost. |
| 23:42.13 | Cloudwolf | I think my dk went from cool starter gear to green plate set item from bs |
| 23:42.36 | Adys | (Fun test: Find out how many statements in this sentence would have been impossible when I took that screenshot) |
| 23:43.29 | Dagmar | That place was much more fun when Corpse Explody still stacked up |
| 23:43.40 | WobWork | oh yeah |
| 23:43.51 | WobWork | I <3 some of the old DK talents |
| 23:43.52 | Fisker | baww Adys |
| 23:44.04 | Dagmar | A decent run, some diseases to kill a guy or two, then *clik*--****GOOOOORRRREEE*** |
| 23:44.04 | Fisker | i don't think "You Shall Not Pass !" ever existed |
| 23:44.12 | Adys | what now? |
| 23:44.35 | Fisker | i also want my damn frozen yoghurt Antiarc |
| 23:44.41 | Antiarc | I do too :( |
| 23:44.41 | Fisker | "om nom nom" |
| 23:44.46 | Antiarc | Wednesday can't come fast enough |
| 23:44.49 | Dagmar | Corpse Explosion used to chain, regardless of what the tooltip said. |
| 23:45.11 | Kraps | Fisker: why not? its cheesy enough for a fantasy game early in its history |
| 23:45.18 | Dagmar | ...so if you blew up a corpse, and it killed someone, they exploded too... ...which killed more and they exploded... and the screen became a fountain of gibbets |
| 23:45.48 | Dagmar | Not really *useful* but thrilling nonetheless. |
| 23:45.49 | Adys | [00:43:53] <Fisker> i don't think "You Shall Not Pass !" ever existed |
| 23:45.52 | Adys | what do you mean? |
| 23:45.54 | WobWork | I loved.. what was it? Shade of Death or something |
| 23:46.02 | Antiarc | Shadow of Death |
| 23:46.06 | WobWork | that's the one |
| 23:46.09 | Antiarc | And that was the bullest of bullshit ever |
| 23:46.19 | WobWork | DKs never incurred any equipment damage =) |
| 23:46.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (~Tuller@c-69-143-56-163.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 23:46.37 | WobWork | It was wonderful =) |
| 23:46.40 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (~airtonix@110-175-101-130.tpgi.com.au) |
| 23:46.43 | *** join/#wowuidev jadakren (~airtonix@unaffiliated/airtonix) |
| 23:48.09 | Fisker | the screenshot of dire maul Adys |
| 23:48.36 | Dagmar | Fisker: It's a real screenshot |
| 23:48.47 | Dagmar | The ice stone was not the game's first silly malfunction |
| 23:48.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Stew-a (~Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 23:49.09 | Kraps | so whats the ice stone? |
| 23:49.16 | Dagmar | A little pile of water |
| 23:49.18 | Lunessa | it's melting |
| 23:49.23 | Fisker | but it was Dagmar |
| 23:49.24 | Kraps | :( |
| 23:49.25 | Dagmar | It melted, don'tchaknow |
| 23:49.40 | Lunessa | It was a Summer event. |
| 23:50.22 | Dagmar | Kraps: You don't remember the text string malfunction? |
| 23:50.23 | Fisker | i can play portal because the cake is a lie like my intelligence |
| 23:50.23 | Adys | Fisker: i dont get it |
| 23:50.23 | Dagmar | Something was making it say in practically everyone's chat window "The ice stone has melted!" over and over |
| 23:50.23 | Fisker | i.e. i don't think that string was ever in the game! |
| 23:50.24 | Fisker | you photoshawped it |
| 23:50.29 | Fisker | ! |
| 23:50.31 | Kraps | Dagmar: i started at the end of BC |
| 23:50.49 | Adys | right |
| 23:50.54 | Dagmar | Kraps: http://www.wow.com/2009/02/11/the-ice-stone-has-melted/ |
| 23:51.14 | Dagmar | Replace "every now and then" with "every minute or two" tho' |
| 23:51.20 | Kraps | oh i remember |
| 23:51.31 | Kraps | but not ingame |
| 23:52.10 | Adys | pulls an old client |
| 23:52.21 | Adys | lets see |
| 23:52.25 | Adys | World of Warcraft 1.1.2 (enGB).7z |
| 23:52.29 | Adys | that should do the trick |
| 23:52.50 | Fisker | noooooooo |
| 23:53.08 | jadakren | did you know the mars rover used linux ? |
| 23:53.24 | Dagmar | Yes. |
| 23:53.36 | Dagmar | I touched some of it. :) |
| 23:53.44 | Cloudwolf | durp? |
| 23:53.53 | Cloudwolf | was it nice and smooth? |
| 23:53.55 | Dagmar | Parts of it were made in Tullahoma, TN |
| 23:54.17 | jadakren | Being Touch By LInux is on the Superhero Table of Elements |
| 23:54.20 | Dagmar | I worked at the ISP that supplied the connection to the company that made it and was down there rejiggering the T1's to handle a lightning strike |
| 23:54.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Archarodim (HydraIRC@lev92-4-88-164-134-95.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 23:55.11 | Dagmar | They told me that this mess of wire was probably going to Mars and I snarkily said "Oooo, can I touch it?" |
| 23:55.21 | Dagmar | *touch* |
| 23:55.45 | Cloudwolf | and then you got tazed? :D |
| 23:55.50 | Adys | Fisker: well its not in globalstrings at least, but for fun: http://paste2.org/p/834655 |
| 23:55.53 | jadakren | and gaffled |
| 23:56.42 | Dagmar | Cloudwolf: No then I went back to my car and drove home because it was late and I was in freakin Tullahoma |
| 23:57.00 | Dagmar | ...which while not quite in the middle of nowhere is probably within an hour's walk of it |
| 23:57.08 | Fisker | yay! |
| 23:57.42 | jadakren | wtf |
| 23:57.50 | Dagmar | They were several miles away from the interstate across the road from a small military base and the only thing in between was trees and the occasional repeater box on the side of the road |
| 23:57.51 | Lunessa | alestane: http://tfl.nu/m7t2 "There is a keg full of gin. THERE SHOULD NEVER EVER BE A KEG FULL OF GIN." |
| 23:58.34 | Dagmar | Lunessa: I suppose if you need to strip a *lot* of paint... |
| 23:59.47 | Lunessa | Dagmar: You'd need a goddamned lot of Tonic or Juice. |
