| 00:01.25 | Jerub | Legorol: FFF is the best because a) no mana, b) no direction, c) high range. |
| 00:01.50 | Jerub | i saw a breakdown of the threat output of abilities somewhere, i can find it again |
| 00:02.02 | Legorol | no need, thanks jerub |
| 00:02.05 | Legorol | what's the cd on fff? |
| 00:02.18 | Jerub | Legorol: same as mangle, 6s. |
| 00:02.24 | Legorol | so it's pretty spammable |
| 00:02.29 | Legorol | specifically, for ooze kiting on rotty |
| 00:02.41 | Legorol | should be sufficient with a bear OT spamming FF, right? |
| 00:02.50 | Jerub | Legorol: FFF and taunt probably. |
| 00:02.58 | Legorol | taunt doesn't generate threat |
| 00:03.05 | Jerub | no, it doesn't, but it's good if someone else pulls ;) |
| 00:03.10 | Legorol | yah sure |
| 00:03.12 | Fisker | only 40ish hours until i get unbanned now |
| 00:03.19 | Legorol | lolwut? banned from where? |
| 00:03.24 | Jerub | Fisker: lol, sif you'd get banned |
| 00:03.32 | Fisker | the forums |
| 00:03.35 | Fisker | wrote ":(" |
| 00:03.39 | Fisker | 7-day ban |
| 00:03.40 | Legorol | ?? |
| 00:03.41 | Fisker | first infraction |
| 00:03.47 | Legorol | what's wrong with :( |
| 00:03.52 | Jerub | Fisker: pics or gtfo |
| 00:04.09 | Jerub | i'm levelling a warrior at the moment, it's amazing how many buttons a warrior has. bears have ... 5. |
| 00:04.18 | Legorol | warrior tanks are very fun |
| 00:04.25 | Legorol | i think they have the biggest toolbox of all tanks |
| 00:04.40 | Legorol | DKs are fun with the cooldown juggling, that's interesting to |
| 00:04.42 | Legorol | *too |
| 00:04.51 | Legorol | bear is yaaaaaawn |
| 00:05.07 | Jerub | one day i'll go back to kitty dps |
| 00:05.17 | Jerub | but my bear is my 'i want a group ... *now*' toon |
| 00:05.24 | Legorol | laters, gotta go and get my ass kicked in SC2 |
| 00:05.27 | Jerub | kk |
| 00:05.30 | Krapsy | Jerub: i have a level 10 pally |
| 00:05.34 | Legorol | hehe, i nkow what you mean about the instant queues |
| 00:05.37 | Krapsy | 1. button. |
| 00:05.44 | Krapsy | i cant do it |
| 00:05.46 | Legorol | i do that on my warrior: dps when i have time, tank when in hurry |
| 00:05.55 | Legorol | but, really off nau |
| 00:05.56 | Fisker | http://i44.tinypic.com/10zrdhv.jpg |
| 00:06.00 | Jerub | i went into berserker stance last night |
| 00:06.07 | Jerub | i had 1 button on my bar. 'attack' |
| 00:06.52 | Jerub | Fisker: link to the thread |
| 00:06.57 | Jerub | doesn't even know how to dps as a warrior |
| 00:07.33 | Fisker | http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=13200796713&sid=1 |
| 00:09.35 | Fisker | dps as a pala: Put every damaging attack on your action bars, arrange from highest dps to lowest, push butan, receive dps |
| 00:12.33 | ZorbaTHut | jerub, what level and what spec? |
| 00:15.25 | ZorbaTHut | also yeah warriors have huge numbers of buttons, though fury's pretty simple |
| 00:21.27 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~nevin@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 00:21.27 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 00:25.44 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: it's not like i care. i'm just protting my way through. |
| 00:26.05 | Jerub | as a prot warrior wearing all blues, nothing can touch me. |
| 00:28.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 00:30.47 | Jerub | Fisker: did you quote anyone when you did a :( ? |
| 00:31.48 | Jerub | Fisker: i think that's pretty awesome. |
| 00:37.08 | Thunder_Child | i want a glyph that reduces the mana cost and casting time of SoC |
| 00:38.15 | Jerub | had an absolute noob mage in WC yesterday |
| 00:38.19 | Jerub | clearly first toon, first instance. |
| 00:38.25 | Jerub | tried to help, but so hard :( |
| 00:38.40 | WobWork | Jerub: he didn't know the lingo, eh? =) |
| 00:38.55 | Legorol | jerub: try and conjure up your first time when you were 15 |
| 00:38.55 | Jerub | WobWork: he tried to solo elites |
| 00:38.57 | Legorol | that might help |
| 00:39.06 | Jerub | Legorol: we were actually /really/ nice to him. |
| 00:39.15 | Legorol | oh i cna imagine |
| 00:39.20 | Jerub | "don't attack anything the bear isn't attacking or you'll die" |
| 00:39.28 | Fisker | Jerub naw |
| 00:39.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Thrae (~ircuser@generalmx-1-pt.tunnel.tserv13.ash1.ipv6.he.net) |
| 00:39.40 | Jerub | but he managed to pull a pack of 4 elites while we were engaging a boss. :/ |
| 00:39.52 | WobWork | did he die? |
| 00:39.52 | Jerub | and then siad, "sorry, gtg", teleported to org, then went afk. |
| 00:39.54 | Jerub | and we couldn't kick. |
| 00:40.02 | Jerub | WobWork: he died then, yes. |
| 00:40.07 | Legorol | i really wish there was a WoW grouping beginner's guid |
| 00:40.12 | Jerub | Legorol: yeah |
| 00:40.15 | Legorol | there are so many class guides, instance guides, raid guides etc |
| 00:40.15 | WobWork | are you sure he wasn't just fiskering you? |
| 00:40.29 | Legorol | the kind of things i'd put in it: what does it mean to pull, what is tanking/dps/healing, etc |
| 00:40.29 | Jerub | WobWork: no, even fisker could find the entrance to WC again |
| 00:40.30 | alestane | Seal of Command, or Seed of Corruption, Thunder_Child? |
| 00:40.42 | Legorol | actually, if you think about it, the in-game DF allows you to pick a role, but doesn't explain well what each role is |
| 00:41.11 | WobWork | You could write an addon doing that, Legorol |
| 00:41.15 | Thunder_Child | alestane: 2nd |
| 00:41.20 | WobWork | of course... -getting- the noobs to install it is another matter |
| 00:41.25 | Legorol | exactly |
| 00:41.27 | Legorol | so doesn't help |
| 00:41.37 | alestane | Yeah, the first wouldn't have made much sense. |
| 00:41.38 | Legorol | i think the in-game tutorial tips should extend to group mechanics |
| 00:41.47 | Legorol | such as threat, pulling, aggro, tanking etc |
| 00:41.57 | Legorol | it has very nice tips about bags, mobs, combat, drinking etc |
| 00:42.05 | Legorol | but no tips about grouping really |
| 00:43.02 | WobWork | they should do what the DKs do |
| 00:43.10 | WobWork | and offer a quest that grouping is an integral part |
| 00:43.27 | WobWork | not always easy to do though |
| 00:43.30 | Legorol | that's ok idea, but the important part is: the quest should drive you to tank, heal etc |
| 00:43.41 | Legorol | it has to somehow teach you about the group mechanics |
| 00:43.46 | Legorol | and not just "get 5 people to kill this mob" |
| 00:44.03 | WobWork | unfortunately, I'd say 'tanking' is a pretty advanced technique |
| 00:44.15 | Legorol | it's advanced to do it well |
| 00:44.17 | WobWork | especially when coupled with 'healing' |
| 00:44.20 | Legorol | but the concept is straightforward |
| 00:44.33 | WobWork | it's the step where you have to trust others to keep you alive |
| 00:44.34 | Legorol | mobs attack the person that pissed them off most. this is called threat. |
| 00:44.46 | Legorol | you want the toughest person to have threat, because they are easiest to keep alive. |
| 00:44.59 | Jerub | there's a difference between "keeping threat on a group" and the huge number of social and game mechanics for /being/ a tank. |
| 00:45.14 | Legorol | ^^ this |
| 00:45.35 | Jerub | levelling a warrior as an instance tank from 30>66 and tanking a heroic every single day for 4 months on my bear has given me a wealth of experience and finesse. |
| 00:45.39 | Jerub | (and i'm still a bad tank) |
| 00:45.40 | Legorol | in a noob-only party you dont' get the L80 emblem farming madness social factors come into play yet |
| 00:45.49 | WobWork | thank god |
| 00:45.59 | Legorol | unfortunately it's very hard to find noobs these days |
| 00:46.04 | Legorol | low level alt is not the same as noob |
| 00:46.11 | WobWork | the big tank little pond, omgnubwtfisyourgs tank big pond situation is really really fucking annoying |
| 00:46.15 | Legorol | they are the same retarded impatient trigger happy kiddies as at 80 |
| 00:46.52 | Legorol | i must say that WoW has changed a lot for me over the years |
| 00:47.00 | Legorol | it's still a fun game that i play a lot, but it's a very different game now |
| 00:47.02 | Jerub | (I say I'm a bad tank because I was taught to play in instances in guild-only heroic groups with vent and our guild RL tanking with his warrior, and he was an /awesome/ tank.) |
| 00:47.05 | Legorol | and not because of the content evolution |
| 00:47.11 | WobWork | I find it immensely confusing to see DPS, of all people, dropping at beginning of instances |
| 00:47.12 | Legorol | but because of an evolution in *how* i play the game |
| 00:47.19 | Legorol | i really miss my first steps into WoW |
| 00:47.22 | Legorol | that was really great fun |
| 00:47.25 | WobWork | this ^ |
| 00:47.26 | Legorol | "omg, i can cast fireball" |
| 00:47.35 | Legorol | there was a huge sense of discovery and adventure |
| 00:47.40 | Legorol | grouping up was epic |
| 00:47.45 | WobWork | Thinking that Darnassus was the -coolest- thing ever |
| 00:47.52 | Legorol | :) i remember that |
| 00:47.54 | Legorol | first time i saw it |
| 00:47.54 | Jerub | i have a workmate who is getting back into it after a 3 year hiatus. |
| 00:48.02 | Legorol | my first ever toon was a gnome mage, i loved the start area |
| 00:48.13 | Legorol | it's very interesting though |
| 00:48.19 | Jerub | he did an instance and was /stunned/. took him 40 minutes to do something that usually took hours, and /the group knew their way around/ |
| 00:48.23 | Legorol | WoW is very true to the easy to get into, hard to master kind of thing |
| 00:48.28 | Jerub | he was so used to everyone learning the instance for the first time. |
| 00:48.36 | Legorol | the first-time player experience is very, very different from end-game progression raiding for example |
| 00:49.02 | Jerub | yeah, i used to think the drenai city was awesome, i loved exploring it for the first time. |
| 00:49.12 | Jerub | ... now i think cities should be much, much, smaller. |
| 00:49.12 | Legorol | that's years down the road already ;) |
| 00:49.18 | WobWork | hehe |
| 00:49.23 | Legorol | i really enjoyed leveling my first char to 60 |
| 00:49.30 | Legorol | there were sooo many new things to discover along the way |
| 00:49.30 | Jerub | (or, maybe, have useful rp elements like people you can talk to and evolving stories, but rp in wow? hehehehe) |
| 00:49.56 | Legorol | leveling a profession was ultra fu |
| 00:49.58 | Legorol | *fun |
| 00:50.05 | Legorol | "cool, i can get two more new schematics!" |
| 00:50.12 | Legorol | "let's make them!" |
| 00:50.34 | Legorol | my first LBRS crawl... |
| 00:50.44 | Legorol | or first UBRS raid |
| 00:51.06 | Legorol | gets nostalgic |
| 00:51.20 | Legorol | lately i don't get that sense of excitement on alts either |
| 00:51.30 | Legorol | i still have quests/zones i haven't done, so leveling alts isn't that boring yet, |
| 00:51.38 | Legorol | but i level alts with a totally different mentality too nowadays |
| 00:52.03 | Jerub | Legorol: have you done both alliance and horde? |
| 00:52.09 | Legorol | nope, haven't done horde |
| 00:52.12 | Jerub | i'm thinking it's time to play up on adifferent faction |
| 00:52.17 | Legorol | i think so too |
| 00:52.20 | Legorol | i wish i had time to do it before cata |
| 00:52.27 | Legorol | i should try and level a horde before cata, i think |
| 00:52.32 | Jerub | Legorol: it'll take 4 weeks to get to 40 |
| 00:52.40 | Legorol | why would it? |
| 00:52.43 | Jerub | Legorol: that'll be a nice tour of the classic content. |
| 00:52.49 | Legorol | idd |
| 00:52.52 | Jerub | (that's if you want to experience stuff on the way) |
| 00:52.56 | Legorol | i know so much more about the game now, leveling is much faster even on fresh toon |
| 00:53.07 | Legorol | yah that's true |
| 00:53.13 | Legorol | i will want to finish off quests etc |
| 00:53.16 | Legorol | even if grey |
| 00:53.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Sum_Wun (~sumwun@72.183.41.75) |
| 00:53.28 | Legorol | hmmm, maybe i *should* do it |
| 00:53.38 | Legorol | forget about the endless frost grinding for a bit |
| 00:54.06 | Legorol | thanks Jerub, now i got the mood :) |
| 00:54.12 | Legorol | and with that, gnight |
| 00:54.30 | Jerub | i stopped frost grinding two months ago |
| 00:54.36 | Jerub | wow's been fun again |
| 00:54.43 | Jerub | (i stopped frost grinding around the same time i got a second 80) |
| 00:56.42 | WobWork | Legorol: have you played all the classes? |
| 00:57.22 | Shirik | Your totally random fact for the day: #asciipr0n is a channel on freenode. It has 42 members in it currently. |
| 00:58.16 | Shirik | Totally random tip for the day: How not to pick up girls: |
| 00:58.24 | Shirik | ~wiki User talk:THEDOMINATOR 2340 |
| 01:01.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Gintaro (~Gintaro@cc1040670-a.gorre1.fr.home.nl) |
| 01:04.09 | Lunessa | totally non-random thing to say to Shirik: OMFG, WHY DID YOU LINK THAT? |
| 01:05.02 | Lunessa | joins #asciipr0n |
| 01:05.15 | Shirik | rofl |
| 01:06.56 | alestane | Quote: "You drunk dialed me talking about the stages of mitosis. There is no way you didn't ace your bio final" |
| 01:11.43 | Lunessa | alestane: There are some really good ones from this weekend. :) |
| 01:13.22 | Thunder_Child | um...odd, i dont remeber being able to use cd's/dvd's like a usb drive |
| 01:13.51 | alestane | Not an enormous Street Fighter fan, but they're right...if anyone's going to make another Street Fighter movie, this really is what it should look like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2ZXSzaUIBQ&feature=player_embedded |
| 01:14.31 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 01:18.10 | Lunessa | alestane: I suppose that would have made a modicum of sense if I'd ever played the game? |
| 01:19.05 | alestane | Only kinda. |
| 01:19.40 | alestane | It boils down to the same thing the game does: there's a back story, but the main point is people kicking the ever-loving crap out of each other. |
| 01:20.25 | Lunessa | Isn't that most video games? Only sometimes it's shooting instead of kicking? |
| 01:20.42 | Cide | Shirik: wanna play? |
| 01:21.12 | Thunder_Child | sounds sexy Cide |
| 01:21.23 | Cide | only if you have a dirty mind |
| 01:21.28 | Thunder_Child | which i do |
| 01:22.38 | Lunessa | Shirik isn't Cide's type. He just wants to own him at SC:II |
| 01:22.58 | Thunder_Child | Lunessa: and you know that Shirik isnt Cide's type how? |
| 01:23.20 | Cide | he's my type and they are of separate types |
| 01:23.22 | Lunessa | That is potentially a crippling flaw in my logic. |
| 01:24.00 | Thunder_Child | this is the internet Lunessa, you should never ever admit you are possibly wrong |
| 01:24.25 | Thunder_Child | and Cide, no one believes you seeing as you are kinda biased in this matter |
| 01:24.37 | Cide | how am I biased? |
| 01:24.42 | Lunessa | I didn't admit to anything. I simply stipulated the possibility. |
| 01:24.58 | Thunder_Child | Lunessa: right...which was wrong |
| 01:24.58 | Cide | this is the internet; I'm never biased |
| 01:25.05 | Thunder_Child | Cide: piffle |
| 01:25.45 | Lunessa | Did you actually use "piffle"? Turn in your hipster card, right goddamned now. |
| 01:26.15 | Thunder_Child | uh, i was never issued one |
| 01:26.19 | airtonix | dispatch the monkeys! |
| 01:26.30 | Lunessa | release the hounds! |
| 01:27.43 | airtonix | well we can't because they all became sentient... and are now claiming walk-about allowance |
| 01:28.08 | Lunessa | So, they're at least ill-tempered? |
| 01:32.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Sargeras (~Sargeras@cpe-72-129-100-195.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 01:33.06 | Dagmar | I thought science was still searching for a cure for hipsterism |
| 01:33.11 | Sargeras | hugs Cairenn |
| 01:33.19 | Dagmar | Should I tell the clustering folks to kill that DNA search? |
| 01:33.19 | Cairenn | hugs Sargeras :) |
| 01:34.10 | airtonix | Higher Anti Terrorist Effort. |
| 01:34.18 | airtonix | sterling name for a organisation |
| 01:35.38 | WobWork | backronym =P |
| 01:37.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Ycarene (jporterf@24-116-56-41.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 01:38.40 | Dagmar | What we need is a charity dedicated to bringing certain individuals into the 21st century with the rest of us |
| 01:38.49 | Dagmar | ...starting with the Britannica folks. |
| 01:39.24 | Dagmar | I just read an article by one of their people that basically made the argument that you shoudln't throw out your paper books in favor of electronic replacements because the *web* is a confusing place. |
| 01:39.44 | Dagmar | I suppose that computery stuff all looks alike to them. |
| 01:41.19 | Lunessa | You shouldn't throw out your paper books because in 25-50 years you'll still be able to read them. Who knows if you'll be able to get your data out of electronic versions. |
| 01:41.59 | kd3 | oh wow, that was quick |
| 01:42.02 | kd3 | realid in 3.3.5 |
| 01:42.15 | Lunessa | Been working on it for a while. :) |
| 01:42.52 | Lunessa | Though the friend of friend thing means I'm going to be MASSIVELY selective about who gets to use my RealID |
| 01:43.07 | Jamash | man I can't wait to get rid of my paper books |
| 01:43.26 | Jamash | but not until I can get replacements that are 100% portable and drm-free |
| 01:43.38 | Dagmar | Jamash: I *used* to have about 200lbs of technical manuals. |
| 01:43.43 | WobWork | Lunessa: ditto |
| 01:43.45 | Dagmar | They are non-trivial to move arounc. |
| 01:43.59 | Dagmar | ORA Bookshelf took out about half of them |
| 01:44.03 | Jamash | nice |
| 01:44.06 | WobWork | for programming books, I prefer hardcopy |
| 01:44.20 | WobWork | cause for any sort of quick lookup reference, I just google it |
| 01:44.54 | Dagmar | Give it a little more time. Maybe 2-3 years. |
| 01:45.01 | Mr_Rabies | what addons would you guys recommend to help me reorganize my inventory after a 2 year hiatus? |
| 01:45.10 | WobWork | Single bag addon? |
| 01:45.23 | Jamash | arkinventory |
| 01:45.23 | Dagmar | Google will probably start offering an app to create a private Google database of your digital texts |
| 01:45.25 | WobWork | or sorted category one |
| 01:45.26 | Lunessa | I'd say NONE - for like the first 2-3 weeks. |
| 01:45.27 | Mr_Rabies | i was using one single bag addon i forgot what it was called |
| 01:45.27 | kd3 | oh, diffs going out in a minute or two. anyone not on my list want a copy? |
| 01:45.33 | WobWork | go onebag and MrPlow |
| 01:45.33 | alestane | I still favor Baggins, it helps me identify what things are for. |
| 01:45.40 | Mr_Rabies | baggins! i think that was it |
| 01:45.44 | Lunessa | kd3: I'm on the list, no? |
| 01:45.49 | Mr_Rabies | it's ace based right? |
| 01:45.58 | Mr_Rabies | if so i think that was probably the one i used |
| 01:46.02 | WobWork | yeah |
| 01:46.05 | WobWork | I like baggins |
| 01:46.10 | cybermind | bilbo! |
| 01:46.10 | WobWork | but I still have issues finding stuff |
| 01:46.12 | Dagmar | I'm stickin' with ArkInventory since I pretty much always have to create my own categories anyway |
| 01:46.20 | Jamash | arkinventory has a search |
| 01:46.29 | kd3 | Lunessa, yup |
| 01:46.34 | Mr_Rabies | i just need to adapt all my old gear into the equip sets etc |
| 01:46.36 | Lunessa | :D |
| 01:46.40 | Dagmar | Jamash: I *loooove* that feature |
| 01:46.52 | Lunessa | Mr_Rabies: Once you've played with the base UI, then you'll know what you want to change. :) |
| 01:47.12 | Dagmar | A few of my toons banks are still like... "*GASP* ICONS!! ALL OVERS!" |
| 01:47.26 | Jamash | I would be so lost without an inventory manager |
| 01:47.28 | Mr_Rabies | i'm liking how a lot of you guys' stuff got implemented into the base game |
| 01:47.31 | WobWork | Dagmar: ICONS... ALL DOWN THE SIDE OF MY FACE... |
| 01:47.34 | Dagmar | Nothin' like bein' able to type a few characters of whatever it was I was looking for and see eveyrthing else grey out |
| 01:47.37 | Jamash | I have 10 chars with 7 bank slots each |
| 01:47.44 | Mr_Rabies | equipment manager was a necessity |
| 01:47.54 | WobWork | altoholic is AWESOME |
| 01:47.55 | Lunessa | Jamash: Lightweight. |
| 01:48.12 | Jamash | well, on my main server |
| 01:48.16 | Mr_Rabies | zomg flight paths take forever oh my god |
| 01:48.21 | Dagmar | WobWork: With the number of icons we have now, rows and columns are still only about as useful as a bunch of those fridge magnets with words on them thrown at the inside of the screen randomly |
| 01:48.23 | Lunessa | I have a 10 on one account and 5 on the other and 2 vanity guild banks. |
| 01:48.36 | Jamash | O_O |
| 01:48.37 | Mr_Rabies | i felt like fudging around and doing a couple lowbie quests to get back into the groove of thigns |
| 01:48.45 | Mr_Rabies | and this flight has taken like 15 minutes |
| 01:48.54 | Mr_Rabies | ;_; |
| 01:49.27 | Jamash | where you flying from/to? |
| 01:49.34 | Lunessa | Jamash: I also leveled every profession to max - I needed a LOT of room. |
| 01:49.48 | Jamash | Lunessa: ah, I'm still only about halfway there on that front |
| 01:50.36 | Dagmar | If it's 15 minutes he's probably going from Darnassus or Belftown to somewhere on the southern tip of the continent |
| 01:51.02 | Jamash | I have, let's see, herb, skinning, alchemy, enchanting, inscription, leatherworking and tailoring maxed |
| 01:51.14 | Jamash | missing mining and related profs |
| 01:51.59 | WobWork | well |
| 01:52.00 | WobWork | get to it! |
| 01:52.12 | WobWork | and blacksmithing |
| 01:52.14 | WobWork | and engineering |
| 01:52.17 | Lunessa | Engineering was the most painful. |
| 01:52.18 | Dagmar | That'll probably be the Cata twink |
| 01:52.24 | WobWork | Lunessa: not anymore |
| 01:52.31 | WobWork | I levelled up engineering fairly quickly |
| 01:52.32 | Dagmar | Lunessa: ...and yet, it yields lots and lots of bombs. :) |
| 01:52.36 | WobWork | and relatively cheaply |
| 01:52.39 | Dagmar | I like the boombooms. |
| 01:52.46 | Lunessa | WobWork: The worst was having to have a toon go back and mine all the Outland metals. |
| 01:52.47 | WobWork | two words |
| 01:52.49 | WobWork | rocket boots |
| 01:52.51 | Dagmar | It gets painful at 420 or so |
| 01:52.59 | WobWork | (additional words: "on a bear") |
| 01:53.02 | Lunessa | Dagmar: Oy, the humor. |
| 01:53.08 | Jamash | I don't play plate classes except my DK and he's a flower child herb picker |
| 01:53.21 | Jamash | so no blacksmithing for me |
| 01:53.25 | Lunessa | Rocket boots + Ghost Wolf = LULZ |
| 01:53.29 | Dagmar | Well, it's a bit painful that you have to craft a whole CRAPLOAD of gnomish army knives, or stuff no one but engineers can use |
| 01:53.43 | WobWork | hm |
| 01:53.47 | WobWork | I think I did arrows? |
| 01:53.53 | Jamash | ARROWED! |
| 01:53.56 | Dagmar | I now see why we could probably build a footbridge from Outlands back to northrend with all those gnomish army knives |
| 01:54.09 | Jerub | ^^^ Lunessa. outland metals :( |
| 01:54.17 | Dagmar | I did as many arrows as I could but I still wound up making like 30 gnomish army knives |
| 01:54.20 | Dagmar | That doesn't even make sense |
| 01:54.27 | kd3 | ...wtf? |
| 01:54.27 | Lunessa | Sucked. So. Much. to need Khorium. |
| 01:54.28 | WobWork | outland metals (aside from GODDAMN KHORIUM, are easy cause you can fly to mine) |
| 01:54.36 | Jerub | i ahve to make greater magic wands to level chanting at the moment |
| 01:54.37 | kd3 | err:module:import_dll Library WLDAP32.dll (which is needed by L"C:\\Program Files\\World of Warcraft Public Test\\Battle.net.dll") not found |
| 01:54.43 | Dagmar | THe only way that won't result in a surplus of the things is if only one in thirty people picks up engineering |
| 01:55.01 | WobWork | oh god, getting enough khorium for the roflcopter was so painful =( |
| 01:55.08 | Jamash | Dagmar: don't worry, blizzard's working on it |
| 01:55.42 | Dagmar | Jamash: I'm sure they are |
| 01:55.56 | Dagmar | Like, I think it would only take *one* developer leveling through that to see the problem |
| 01:55.58 | airtonix | little elves |
| 01:56.24 | kd3 | ldap? |
| 01:56.24 | Dagmar | Otherwise, we can expect another Great Flood Of Knives to happen about a month after Cata comes out |
| 01:56.29 | kd3 | what the hell is blizz trying? |
| 01:56.38 | Jamash | part of realid? |
| 01:57.02 | Dagmar | LDAP is not Kerberos, and for this reason alone it should be considered "friendly" |
| 01:57.11 | airtonix | llooooool |
| 01:57.35 | airtonix | inverted commas |
| 01:57.54 | Dagmar | You just want something to burn a lot of problems at once, and when you go to krb5 for it, you get an entire Saturn V rocket. |
| 01:57.56 | Jerub | i want to run a bar so i can tell stories like this on the internet: http://www.dnalounge.com/backstage/log/2010/05/06.html |
| 01:58.16 | airtonix | must not click link |
| 01:58.27 | Dagmar | You know you want to. That place rocks. |
| 01:58.31 | Dagmar | THer'es a pic of me somewhere in it |
| 01:58.38 | Jerub | airtonix: it's 3 paragraphs and the pic is related but sfw |
| 01:58.47 | Lunessa | Sounds like a hell of a place. |
| 01:58.55 | airtonix | not safe for my sanity |
| 01:59.04 | Dagmar | Lunesssa: It's awesome. |
| 01:59.20 | Dagmar | JWZ basically took his Netscape money and decided to build a nightclub he'd like to go to. |
| 01:59.22 | airtonix | the link, it clicks me |
| 01:59.23 | Lunessa | Yeah, but as the overweight 40 guy, I'd be really out of place. |
| 01:59.27 | Jamash | I should have gone when I lived in SF |
| 01:59.51 | Dagmar | So there's like, little internet terminals everywhere, a mad ass sound system, crazy lights (wondered about some of those XScreenSaver hacks did you?)... |
| 01:59.53 | airtonix | Lunessa, just remove one of his arms then he fits in |
| 02:00.13 | Dagmar | Oh, and if you're on the fence about going, he's generally got live webcams up showing any line outside and several views of what's going on inside. |
| 02:00.41 | airtonix | not a place you go to hide |
| 02:01.00 | Dagmar | So there's no real issue with like at some clubs when you go and expected chicago house only to find some rapper and thugs |
| 02:01.10 | Dagmar | Oh you can hide there |
| 02:01.15 | Dagmar | It's big |
| 02:01.23 | airtonix | but cameras |
| 02:01.31 | Dagmar | Not that many, and it's a nigthclub |
| 02:01.40 | Dagmar | THey're not special design Navy seal models or something |
| 02:01.53 | Dagmar | Have you ever tried to take pictures in a nightclub without a flash? |
| 02:02.13 | Dagmar | A few times he's had cameras trained on the turntables |
| 02:02.18 | Dagmar | ...like, from overhead. |
| 02:04.27 | WobWork | is it ...= addon, addonname now? |
| 02:04.32 | WobWork | or the other way around |
| 02:04.51 | alestane | addOnName, addOnTable = ... |
| 02:05.24 | WobWork | duh, of course =) |
| 02:05.25 | WobWork | ta |
| 02:08.12 | kd3 | oh, emails away, by the way |
| 02:08.23 | kd3 | still wtfs at the errors he's getting in wine |
| 02:09.36 | Lunessa | Anyone going to post an API changes summary? |
| 02:10.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Ycarene (jporterf@24-116-56-41.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 02:10.14 | alestane | I can post if someone generates it. |
| 02:11.09 | alestane | Don't really feel like assembling one at the moment. |
| 02:11.16 | kd3 | that's usually clad's thing |
| 02:11.39 | alestane | Anyone in Groundign Totem have extra Knothide leather kicking around? |
| 02:11.59 | Lunessa | alestane: I do. Like 20 pieces maybe |
| 02:12.08 | alestane | Trying to get up to 350. |
| 02:13.30 | kd3 | I feel bad for the prat guys |
| 02:13.45 | kd3 | just skimming over the diff it feels like everything chat-related is different |
| 02:13.49 | alestane | Chat add-ons will basically all explode. |
| 02:14.24 | alestane | I think even the basic shape of chat events is changing noticably. |
| 02:14.43 | alestane | (Don't quote me on that one.) |
| 02:27.01 | Lunessa | proceeds to quote alestane to Wired and the NYT. |
| 02:27.52 | alestane | ...would they care? |
| 02:28.21 | Lunessa | Not really. |
| 02:33.54 | Kraps | kd3 |
| 02:34.00 | kd3 | hm? |
| 02:34.06 | NightHawkTheSane | i dunno, wired might write a hacky article proclaiming the mod-pocalypse is nigh, and 3.3.5 will completely hose your ui. |
| 02:34.13 | NightHawkTheSane | oh, wait, my bad, that's wowinsider |
| 02:34.43 | Kraps | kd3: "Player Kaydeethree has written an excellent step-by-step guide and posted it on the WowWiki. " |
| 02:35.12 | kd3 | it's been that way since... 3.1? the qa guys have a text document they use to repost stickies for ptr cycles |
| 02:35.24 | kd3 | s/3.1/2.1/ |
| 02:35.30 | kd3 | I need to update the guide, it's wrong now |
| 02:36.27 | Lunessa | And the support guys fire off a link to my Windows Vista/Windows 7 guide. It's just background noise now. :) |
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| 02:36.43 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 02:40.59 | Arrowmaster | so yeah im bored and dont play wow anymore but was looking at the forums and decided to look at how AVR worked, and its working exactly how i was expecting it to work since i knew that trick for getting the camera position years ago, blizz could totally break that if they wanted to, kinda shocked they havent yet since last i heard the camera positions didnt even get saved between sessions anymore |
| 02:42.08 | Kraps | Arrowmaster: i really hope you're quoting something... |
| 02:42.32 | Arrowmaster | not really, just talking to myself |
| 02:44.01 | Dagmar | Almost no one's camera and position stays static throughout a boss fight, so it's not as bad as training wheels at least |
| 02:46.24 | Arrowmaster | funny thing, i almost wrote an addon just like it back in classic when two guildmates where dueling, a warrior and a rogue, and the warrior thought the rogue had something showing the rogue exactly how far charge range was because he kept running away and staying just outside of charge range before stealthing |
| 02:46.54 | alestane | Rogue used to play a warrior? |
| 02:46.56 | Arrowmaster | and i figured i could make something to show a ring at a certain range |
| 02:47.22 | Arrowmaster | rogue had a warrior alt but i dont remember if he did yet at that time |
| 02:48.06 | Arrowmaster | but this rogue fucking raped warriors in duels, he quit when TBC came out but them came back and was dueling lvl 70 warriors in thrallmar while he was still 60 and beating them |
| 02:48.49 | Lunessa | Meh, people beat me in duels or PVP all the time. |
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| 03:01.36 | Lunessa | Really, how hard is it to remember you user name and password that you use every.damned.day.? |
| 03:02.22 | alestane | Too damned hard, apparently. |
| 03:02.25 | Lunessa | I can understand forgetting one you use very seldom, but one you use daily? |
| 03:02.51 | Iriel | Neural exhaustion? |
| 03:03.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Codayus (cody@lilly.csoft.net) |
| 03:03.09 | Lunessa | I suppose, but really? |
| 03:03.53 | NightHawkTheSane | at some point, muscle memory ought to take over :P |
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| 03:05.12 | Iriel | I go through periods where I can't tell you what my password is but I CAN type it |
| 03:05.50 | Iriel | (Usually a sign I should go to bed) |
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| 03:05.58 | NightHawkTheSane | I have times where I actually type in the WRONG password, because i forget a particular system has a different one. |
| 03:06.55 | Lunessa | Last year we consolidated - users outside of the School of Computer Engineering only have two passwords anymore. And they routinely forget both despite using them daily. |
| 03:07.35 | Lunessa | the guys in computer engineering have their own domain and *nix boxes with whatever passwords they want. And they rarely bother me. |
| 03:07.45 | *** join/#wowuidev industrial (~industria@205.189.73.45) |
| 03:08.05 | Adys | Could anyone get me the US and/or EU PTR client download links? apparently, blizzard miserably fails at supporting multi-accounts linked |
| 03:09.00 | *** join/#wowuidev [Ammo] (~wouter@connected.dnd.utwente.nl) |
| 03:10.51 | Lunessa | needs a nap. |
| 03:11.24 | alestane | http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/downloads/clients/mac/ptr-downloader-enUS.html |
| 03:11.28 | NightHawkTheSane | needs more legos |
| 03:11.37 | kd3 | http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/charcopy/downloads.html |
| 03:11.52 | Iriel | https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/account/download/clients/mac/InstallWoW.zip |
| 03:12.01 | Iriel | If you want the mac one 8-) |
| 03:13.02 | alestane | NightHawkTheSane: Why? |
| 03:13.12 | alestane | And yes, I link the Mac one because it's the one I download. |
| 03:13.33 | NightHawkTheSane | alestane: ... because i don't have them all yet. ;) |
| 03:13.49 | alestane | Good lcuk with that. |
| 03:14.09 | kd3 | rgrr. lemme copy my toon |
| 03:14.26 | NightHawkTheSane | alestane: never thought it was attainable, but it's a goal ;) |
| 03:15.26 | Lunessa | You can never have too many legos. |
| 03:15.28 | Lunessa | NEVER |
| 03:15.43 | NightHawkTheSane | inded |
| 03:15.47 | NightHawkTheSane | +e |
| 03:15.51 | alestane | Not that I'm criticizing, mind you. I can sit in perfect contentment for a couple hours with an instruction booklet and a pile of little plastic parts. |
| 03:16.05 | *** join/#wowuidev phyber (phyber@217.155.27.11) |
| 03:16.49 | NightHawkTheSane | alestane: yeah, that was my saturday morning. fruits of said labor: http://www.flickr.com/photos/25920278@N02/4597625624/in/set-72157623912733925/ :) |
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| 03:17.14 | Lunessa | alestane: The only way legos could be better is if they had progress bars. |
| 03:20.04 | Kraps | how could you not notice that the healer is dead? |
| 03:20.16 | alestane | Well, good night all. |
| 03:27.32 | mikma | http://www.geekologie.com/2010/05/dont_eat_my_cookies_space_slug.php |
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| 03:43.30 | Kraps | i thought they fixed tyrannus jumping back on rimefang >.< |
| 03:44.17 | cybermind | still does it with warriors charging i think |
| 03:44.30 | cybermind | and someone has to be in melee range when he goes active if im not mistaken |
| 03:44.48 | Kraps | ^ |
| 03:49.54 | Kraps | actually the opposite |
| 03:52.00 | *** join/#wowuidev mascondante (kvirc@75-105-24-144.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 03:52.12 | Jamash | please tell me I don't have to download the 3.0.1 PTR installer and patch up from there |
| 03:52.47 | cybermind | i had to do that with 3.3 |
| 03:54.14 | Jamash | argh |
| 03:54.33 | Jerub | does anyone here recognise this piece of hardware? http://www.telstra.com.au/homephone/phones/specifications.html |
| 03:54.34 | cybermind | i dont even get an option to d/l it now |
| 03:54.38 | cybermind | but my roommate did about 2 hours ago |
| 03:54.45 | cybermind | but he couldnt copy a char over |
| 03:56.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Irish (~DigitaLun@adsl-71-190-140.gsp.bellsouth.net) |
| 03:58.41 | Jerub | ah nevermind, found it. |
| 03:59.51 | WobWork | Jerub: that's that thub thing they're touting, isn't it? |
| 04:00.04 | Jerub | yeah, that's it. |
| 04:00.12 | Jerub | WobWork: i saw it on a bus stop this morning and had to know more. |
| 04:00.14 | WobWork | ... I'm not sure why you'd want it |
| 04:00.24 | WobWork | it looks like an iphone =P |
| 04:00.26 | Jerub | WobWork: i have family. |
| 04:00.42 | WobWork | but why you'd want it for a -home- phone? |
| 04:00.50 | Jerub | WobWork: so i /will/ be asked why they /shouldn't/ get it, and it'll be my job to avoid them spending stupid dollars on highly advertised trash. |
| 04:00.53 | WobWork | what's so special about it? |
| 04:01.15 | eidolarr | does anyone here work in java professionally with emacs? |
| 04:01.23 | eidolarr | or vim? |
| 04:01.31 | Jerub | eidolarr: vim here. |
| 04:01.33 | WobWork | tell them they should get the severed head of thomas edison |
| 04:01.34 | Jerub | oh wait ,java. |
| 04:01.40 | Jerub | i once used java+vim, a long time ago |
| 04:01.49 | WobWork | eidolarr: most I know use eclipse |
| 04:01.52 | WobWork | lemme ask |
| 04:02.17 | eidolarr | I know but I also know some have had success in emacs/vim |
| 04:02.23 | WobWork | one person so far at Atlassian uses vi =) |
| 04:02.29 | Jerub | WobWork: wait, what. |
| 04:02.32 | WobWork | Another uses IDEA/Eclipse |
| 04:02.33 | Jerub | WobWork: you're at atlassian? |
| 04:02.36 | eidolarr | and i'm wondering how you replace the java specific features of eclipse |
| 04:02.39 | WobWork | no, but I have friends there |
| 04:02.44 | Jerub | oh right. |
| 04:02.50 | Jerub | okay. that was going to be a little bizarre. |
| 04:02.54 | Jerub | has friends there. |
| 04:03.11 | eidolarr | isn't atlassian pretty big though? |
| 04:03.16 | WobWork | Although if I knew Java, I'd probably apply to work there |
| 04:03.28 | WobWork | Jerub: whom? |
| 04:04.23 | Thunder_Child | EA is going to do something really stupid one of these days at this rate http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/108/1088621p1.html |
| 04:04.31 | WobWork | 'one of these days'? |
| 04:05.05 | Thunder_Child | this is just stupid, not really stupid |
| 04:05.16 | Jerub | WobWork: oh you know, the kind of people i knew by their nicks 10 years ago and are now all growed up. |
| 04:05.17 | Thunder_Child | but it is getting close |
| 04:05.24 | Jerub | would have to go check facebook to establish actual names. |
| 04:05.36 | WobWork | what nicks did they go by? =) |
| 04:06.31 | Kraps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa4Xn0mOdJ4 |
| 04:06.33 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@c-98-239-20-229.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 04:07.13 | Jamash | "This is an important inflection point in our business because it allows us to accelerate our commitment to enhance premium online services to the entire robust EA SPORTS online community," said Peter Moore, President of EA SPORTS. |
| 04:07.13 | Jamash | that's a great quote |
| 04:07.19 | WobWork | Kraps: I love hearing the goblin sayings in chinese =) |
| 04:07.51 | Jamash | if you translate it into english it says "it allows us to charge you money for the privilege of being charged even more money" |
| 04:08.36 | eidolarr | hey another q |
| 04:08.45 | Jamash | of course, this is peter moore saying it, so no surprise |
| 04:08.51 | eidolarr | I have been struggling to do unbuffered redirection |
| 04:08.55 | eidolarr | like cat blah > bleh |
| 04:09.02 | eidolarr | my best solution so far has been a lua script |
| 04:09.21 | eidolarr | is there anything more clever? |
| 04:09.33 | WobWork | what are you trying to do? |
| 04:09.59 | eidolarr | I'm trying to write data to a fifo pipe in real time, from my window manager to another program |
| 04:10.14 | eidolarr | the problem is that it's not being sent to the pipe, presumably because it's waiting for some buffer to fill |
| 04:10.19 | Jamash | dd? |
| 04:10.20 | eidolarr | if i use a file instead of a pipe it works |
| 04:12.45 | eidolarr | anyone have any clever ideas? |
| 04:12.48 | eidolarr | was the dd directed at me? |
| 04:14.25 | eidolarr | to clarify if you do this you get no output: |
| 04:14.28 | Jerub | eidolarr: dd can read or write to stdin or stdout |
| 04:15.06 | eidolarr | ah so it can read stdin unbuffered and write to a pipe unbuffered? |
| 04:15.07 | Jamash | dd also has numerous options to control block size and buffering |
| 04:15.27 | eidolarr | I don't think fifos are actually files so isn't block size moot? |
| 04:16.04 | Aqua | i hate drop rates oh yes i do |
| 04:16.46 | eidolarr | this looks very powerful but like the right tool, thanks i will read up on it |
| 04:16.48 | Jamash | not if you want real-time writes |
| 04:17.14 | Jamash | if you want data read and written as fast as possible, I would assume you'd want a 1-byte block size |
| 04:17.18 | Jamash | and no buffering |
| 04:17.54 | eidolarr | does block size matter if the data isn't being written to disk? |
| 04:18.28 | Jerub | eidolarr: block size means 'how big shoudl my read/writes be' ? |
| 04:18.36 | Jerub | bs=1 basically means read 1 byte at a time and then write it |
| 04:18.41 | Jamash | well, it affects how much data dd will internally buffer before performing a write |
| 04:18.58 | Jerub | you can even do ibs=1 obs=4096 |
| 04:19.10 | Jerub | so that it doesn't write 1 byte at a time, just reads 1 at a time |
| 04:19.46 | eidolarr | so that implies no buffering? |
| 04:20.01 | Jerub | has an eyebrow twitch. |
| 04:20.14 | Jamash | block size controls dds internal buffering, there are other options for OS-level buffering |
| 04:20.51 | eidolarr | this might be lower level then, I can't see an obvious way to write line by line |
| 04:20.55 | Jamash | iflag and oflag |
| 04:21.19 | Jerub | ah, iflag=direct might be the right thing to do |
| 04:21.31 | Jamash | ya |
| 04:21.46 | Jerub | so the full command would be: |
| 04:22.19 | Jerub | mycommand | dd iflag=direct ibs=1 obs=4096 | outputreceiver |
| 04:23.27 | eidolarr | the description for direct is "use direct I/O for data" - what does that mean? |
| 04:28.42 | Jamash | I believe it means use unbuffered reads and writes |
| 04:29.08 | Adys | http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1662+ |
| 04:29.31 | Jamash | hahaa |
| 04:31.27 | WobWork | poor hannalore |
| 04:32.37 | Jerub | <3 hanners |
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| 05:45.21 | Jerub | ! |
| 05:45.25 | Jerub | bnet realid is in 3.3.5 |
| 05:45.28 | Jerub | and patch notes are up |
| 05:45.34 | Jerub | does that mean tonight is patch night? |
| 05:46.55 | Thunder_Child | doubtful |
| 05:46.59 | Thunder_Child | just want to ptr |
| 05:47.03 | Thunder_Child | went* |
| 05:47.55 | Jerub | okay |
| 05:49.35 | Shirik | http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:86.151.89.147&action=historysubmit&diff=361209475&oldid=361161109 |
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| 06:19.06 | Adys | kd3: ping |
| 06:20.45 | *** join/#wowuidev bleeter (~bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 06:38.21 | *** join/#wowuidev zenzio (~zenzio__@85.19.77.194) |
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| 06:45.42 | Thunder_Child | Bah Weep Gra-nah Weep Ninni Bong. |
| 06:52.22 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (spode@213.21.119.83) |
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| 07:00.03 | zenzio | http://averagecats.com/2765 |
| 07:06.52 | Mr_Rabies | <Thunder_Child> Bah Weep Gra-nah Weep Ninni Bong. |
| 07:07.05 | Mr_Rabies | Bah Weep Gra-nah Weep Ninni Bong? |
| 07:07.11 | Thunder_Child | yes |
| 07:07.13 | Mr_Rabies | does a dance number to the tune of Weird Al |
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| 07:20.33 | zenzio | http://unrealitymag.com/index.php/2010/05/07/a-size-comparison-of-massive-open-world-video-game-maps/ |
| 07:20.40 | zenzio | wonder where they got the figures |
| 07:26.30 | Thunder_Child | from the game i assume |
| 07:26.46 | Thunder_Child | i am amused that Daggerfall has the largest |
| 07:27.07 | zenzio | it's possible, but I didn't think most games bothered to say "hey, we're this big: ..." |
| 07:27.25 | WobWork | hehe |
| 07:27.31 | Thunder_Child | i know for a fact Fuel did |
| 07:27.37 | WobWork | Discworld MUD could boast it had infinite rooms |
| 07:27.40 | Thunder_Child | they kept pointing it out |
| 07:27.44 | zenzio | the most interesting part is as some of the commenters say, the *actual* map size doesn't necessarily mean anything about how big it *feels* |
| 07:27.52 | WobWork | because we had an infinitely expanding Library |
| 07:28.09 | WobWork | (in the UU) |
| 07:28.15 | WobWork | thanks to L-space |
| 07:30.33 | *** join/#wowuidev L4x4t0r (~dada@AMontsouris-153-1-36-71.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 07:30.37 | haste | anyone care to drop me a event list on login+reloadui :p ? |
| 07:31.15 | haste | isn't trying to get some coding done at work or anything. |
| 07:36.47 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 07:37.00 | Fisker | i wanted to play on the ptr realms :( |
| 07:37.12 | Fisker | can you ptr Thunder_Child ? |
| 07:37.25 | sylvanaar | good morning |
| 07:37.55 | Thunder_Child | i have not tried Fisker |
| 07:38.14 | Fisker | you should |
| 07:38.19 | Fisker | unless you want to be hated with me |
| 07:38.34 | Fisker | seems to share login servers with the cataclysm alpha so it's acting up here :( |
| 07:40.03 | WobWork | I can believe Daggerfall was that big |
| 07:40.12 | WobWork | since oblivion is only in one state |
| 07:40.16 | WobWork | and lotro |
| 07:40.25 | WobWork | cause that goddamn this is ridiculously large |
| 07:40.29 | Fisker | hey WobWork |
| 07:40.37 | WobWork | one of the main reasons I rolled a ranger on that =P |
| 07:40.41 | WobWork | hey Fisker |
| 07:42.05 | Fisker | stares |
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| 07:46.44 | Thrae | Bah, I'm going back to Geek2Geek in desparation. |
| 07:46.52 | zenzio | ..? |
| 07:47.08 | Thrae | It's a Geek relationship service. |
| 07:47.27 | Thrae | Not to be confused with Greek2Greek |
| 07:47.49 | Thunder_Child | or Cheek2Cheek |
| 07:48.04 | Thrae | Thunder_Child: Nah, there's a bunch of gays and lesbians on it. |
| 07:54.21 | Sixen | so, realID on the PTR |
| 07:54.28 | Sixen | am I late? |
| 07:55.02 | zenzio | if you're unsure, you should take a test |
| 08:01.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (~Srosh@d071086.adsl.hansenet.de) |
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| 08:05.34 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lothaer] by ChanServ |
| 08:06.13 | Lothaer | hey guys |
| 08:06.50 | zenzio | heya |
| 08:07.35 | Lothaer | sad news about Atlas |
| 08:08.04 | zenzio | oh? |
| 08:08.19 | Lothaer | Dan has left the project due to medical and personal reasons |
| 08:09.17 | zenzio | ah :-/ |
| 08:09.30 | Sixen | Oh noez, :(. |
| 08:09.39 | Sixen | I have no idea who Dan or Atlas is, QQ. |
| 08:09.41 | krka | medical reasons are usually personal... but that sucks anyway |
| 08:09.50 | Lothaer | Sixen |
| 08:09.56 | Lothaer | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=3896#info |
| 08:10.09 | Sixen | Oh, *that* Atlas, :P. |
| 08:10.29 | Lothaer | Atlas is(was) probably the most used mod |
| 08:10.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 08:11.01 | Fisker | hey Sixen |
| 08:11.03 | Fisker | you are very late |
| 08:11.12 | zenzio | I know it's one of the first two addons I used when I started (Auctioneer being the other) |
| 08:11.15 | Fisker | but i can't login |
| 08:11.22 | Fisker | so fix me some cataclysm beta access so i can |
| 08:12.48 | Sixen | :( |
| 08:13.05 | Sixen | PTR Client is like 5 full versions behind live |
| 08:13.06 | Sixen | -_- |
| 08:13.13 | Fisker | naw |
| 08:13.25 | Fisker | unless you mean the initial client |
| 08:13.59 | Sixen | It's 3.0.1 |
| 08:14.00 | Sixen | :( |
| 08:33.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (~kalroth@mail1.retailplanit.com) |
| 08:34.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Kazie (~Kazie@188.114.158.72) |
| 08:38.48 | zenzio | so yesterday, when trying to figure out how to do something in an old product my company did, I was messing around in the database it used. One of the tables had a column cleverly named "timestamp"... and it was of type varchar(11) |
| 08:39.46 | olafski | nice |
| 08:40.02 | olafski | maybe it was for hexadecimal timestamps |
| 08:40.10 | zenzio | nope, all digits |
| 08:40.12 | *** join/#wowuidev [Ammo] (~wouter@WoWUIDev/WowAce/ammo) |
| 08:40.23 | Adys | octal then. |
| 08:40.29 | zenzio | :-p |
| 08:41.35 | batrick | interesting |
| 08:41.44 | batrick | wuwu |
| 08:42.52 | *** join/#wowuidev eidolarr (~zls@c-71-61-178-129.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 08:42.57 | eidolarr | anyone using irssi? |
| 08:45.11 | olafski | <-- |
| 08:45.17 | batrick | ,-- |
| 08:45.56 | eidolarr | i'm hoping to set it up so that one server is in one window and the others are in another; is that doable without perl scripting? |
| 08:46.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (~Wobin@203-214-143-109.perm.iinet.net.au) |
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| 08:47.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Lothaer (~jamiecook@115-166-33-59.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 08:47.20 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lothaer] by ChanServ |
| 08:47.25 | eidolarr | i know i can explicitly tell the channels to stick to a window but it seems like a hack |
| 08:47.54 | Lothaer | soo Ruby Sanctum is on the PTR huh |
| 08:47.56 | Lothaer | cool |
| 08:49.05 | olafski | no clue eidolarr, sorry.. I keep my channels in the same order at all times, but they're not ordered by server |
| 08:49.48 | eidolarr | i'm using bitlbee so i'd like to have my im's separate |
| 08:54.03 | Fisker | i will destroy you Lothaer |
| 09:09.36 | batrick | sprays for trolls. |
| 09:10.08 | Fisker | absorbs the spray |
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| 09:42.15 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 09:44.47 | Adys | Throw burning oil at your pursuers slowing them down and inflicting (2667, 5333, 2667, 5333, 2667, 5333, 2667, 5333, 2667, 5333, 2667, 5333, 2667, 5333, 2667, 5333) Fire damage over 8 sec. |
| 09:44.48 | Adys | hmm. |
| 09:44.54 | Adys | Oops. |
| 09:45.09 | zenzio | that's a lot of damage |
| 09:47.54 | Fisker | Windows Media Player is stupid |
| 09:48.02 | Fisker | I found out why i can't seek in videos now |
| 09:48.13 | zenzio | why's that? |
| 09:48.29 | Fisker | Because it needs to know the bitrate and duration |
| 09:48.46 | Fisker | But apparently doesn't expose any function for filters/codecs/etc. to do that |
| 09:49.06 | Fisker | and by bitrate and duration i mean metadata |
| 09:49.11 | Fisker | not the actual file |
| 09:49.54 | Fisker | Found a plugin that fixes it for audio |
| 09:49.58 | Fisker | now i just need one for video :P |
| 09:56.54 | Arrowmaster | what about variable bit rate files |
| 09:58.02 | Fisker | idk |
| 09:58.10 | Fisker | i don't wanna know either :P |
| 09:58.16 | Fisker | it's messed up |
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| 10:37.21 | Arrowmaster | oh god, new big bang theory is fucking great |
| 10:37.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~cide@c213-100-51-33.swipnet.se) |
| 10:37.57 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 10:41.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Sidey (~Sidey@external.howest.be) |
| 10:41.40 | Sidey | hello |
| 10:41.52 | zenzio | heya |
| 10:46.31 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar_atwork (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 10:48.13 | Arrowmaster | best episode of big bang theory EVER |
| 10:48.59 | A-KO | reading mmo champion's cata forums is funny :P |
| 10:49.42 | Bruners | Arrowmaster: NO SPOILERS |
| 10:49.51 | Arrowmaster | i wasnt |
| 10:49.58 | Bruners | watching it now |
| 10:50.01 | Arrowmaster | just BEST EPISODE EVER |
| 10:50.59 | haste | no spoilers over the last week episode either! |
| 10:51.08 | haste | haven't had time to watch it yet! |
| 10:51.44 | Cide | NO SPOILERS EVAR |
| 10:51.59 | Fisker | haste |
| 10:52.01 | Fisker | i hate you |
| 10:53.17 | industrial | Fisker: your mother is a nice woman, probably! |
| 10:54.22 | Fisker | k industrial ? |
| 10:54.28 | industrial | k. |
| 10:55.36 | haste | .k |
| 10:55.44 | haste | Fisker: April.#02 |
| 10:55.44 | Sidey | hey, don't know if this ok to ask here, but are there already any mirc 7 theme scripts out there ? |
| 10:55.56 | industrial | ew! |
| 10:55.59 | industrial | mirc! |
| 10:55.59 | haste | ew! |
| 10:56.08 | Sidey | :D |
| 10:56.21 | Sidey | I always liked it |
| 10:56.30 | Bruners | mirc 7 theme scripts ? wtf |
| 10:57.02 | Sidey | like script, to alter the layout ;) |
| 10:57.22 | haste | you know, like the stuff any sane client usually supports |
| 10:57.22 | industrial | I'd imagine an IRC client has its own IRC channel. |
| 10:57.53 | Sidey | wise words industrial |
| 11:00.42 | Fisker | why would you do such a thing haste ? |
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| 11:26.36 | jnwhiteh | so |
| 11:26.38 | jnwhiteh | #showtooltip |
| 11:26.47 | jnwhiteh | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:26.51 | jnwhiteh | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:26.56 | jnwhiteh | that should work, right? |
| 11:27.32 | Fisker | i guess |
| 11:27.42 | Thrae | jnwhiteh: Hmm, for Druids there's no form:0. Is there a stance:0 or is that the same as nostance/noform? |
| 11:27.48 | jnwhiteh | oh |
| 11:27.51 | jnwhiteh | you're prob right |
| 11:27.52 | jnwhiteh | duur. |
| 11:27.54 | Fisker | baww |
| 11:27.59 | jnwhiteh | fixed |
| 11:28.00 | jnwhiteh | thanks =) |
| 11:28.24 | Fisker | if only i had a cataclysm beta key |
| 11:28.47 | Thrae | Fisker: No one has one. It's still in Alpha. |
| 11:30.18 | jnwhiteh | not true |
| 11:30.20 | jnwhiteh | its F&F Beta |
| 11:30.23 | jnwhiteh | but nice try =) |
| 11:31.16 | Thrae | jnwhiteh: Odd, everyone I heard talking about it called it Alpha. The animations aren't even in yet for a lot of creatures. |
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| 11:33.13 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
| 11:33.24 | *** part/#wowuidev Cide- (~Andre@c213-100-51-33.swipnet.se) |
| 11:33.36 | Sidey | so they say because everyone looks at sandbox |
| 11:36.56 | Fisker | Everyone but Blizzard Thrae |
| 11:37.27 | Fisker | Bibi only calls it alpha because he wants to make it abundantly clear that, no, you're not in it if you think you got an e-mail saying that you were. |
| 11:37.48 | Fisker | anyway jnwhiteh i need a beta key |
| 11:38.09 | Thrae | It *looks* like Alpha. Blizzard PR might call it Beta to make it seem like it's further along than it is. |
| 11:38.33 | Fisker | I disagree |
| 11:38.41 | Fisker | It looks further along than the WotLK alpha by far |
| 11:39.06 | Fisker | and it's not a matter of what Blizzard PR calls it |
| 11:39.08 | zenzio | so beyond common usage, is there any official definition for "alpha", "beta", "public test", etc.? |
| 11:39.10 | Fisker | They haven't called it anything |
| 11:39.14 | zenzio | they seem highly opinion-based |
| 11:39.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (~Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 11:39.42 | Thrae | zenzio: No, it's up to the project manager internally and PR externally. |
| 11:39.52 | krka | sylvanaar_atwork: i can't get your intellij setup working |
| 11:40.14 | sylvanaar_atwork | you'll probably have to reconfigure the module dependancies |
| 11:40.22 | *** join/#wowuidev cncfanatics (~cncfanati@WoWUIDev/cncfanatics) |
| 11:40.31 | sylvanaar_atwork | i built from source |
| 11:41.33 | sylvanaar_atwork | krka: i was going to post it last night, but i had a path issue with stdlib |
| 11:41.44 | Sidey | i have a question about version: if you release a new version of your mod, and the saved variables have a different format in the new version, what can you do to avoid errors? Just doing some checks in the "variables loaded" event ? |
| 11:42.25 | zenzio | Sidey: do you want to keep as much of the saved variables as possible, or just start fresh? |
| 11:42.43 | Sidey | starting fresh would be much easier ofc |
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| 11:42.50 | Sidey | and would be ok |
| 11:42.57 | zenzio | then you could keep a version somewhere in the SV |
| 11:43.18 | zenzio | and just check if that was the right one for your current addon version |
| 11:43.18 | Thrae | Sidey: I used to keep the version of the SVDB in the DB so I know when to prune and merge. |
| 11:43.32 | Sidey | ok |
| 11:43.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (~Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 11:53.17 | Adys | nevcairiel: halp :( |
| 11:53.48 | Adys | unsupported operand type(s) for /: 'Range' and 'int' |
| 11:53.52 | Adys | http://dpaste.com/193180/ |
| 11:55.09 | Spejnar | bah, I need to learn some LUA |
| 11:55.12 | sylvanaar_atwork | krka: did you figure it out - i can tell you what to do if not |
| 11:55.41 | Sidey | function learnLUA(self) end :-) |
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| 11:55.55 | Spejnar | actually gonna read wow programming this summer ^^ |
| 11:56.18 | Sidey | this summer? |
| 11:56.27 | Spejnar | yeah, in like 6 weeks |
| 11:56.31 | Sidey | don't tell me you have 2 months vacation :p |
| 11:56.34 | Spejnar | 3 |
| 11:56.39 | Sidey | >_< |
| 11:56.46 | Spejnar | like june -> sep |
| 11:57.05 | Sidey | I used to have that :< What happened |
| 11:57.09 | Spejnar | so might as well write some retarded addons I can use to bug people with |
| 11:57.15 | haste | glares at this four week vacation. |
| 11:57.25 | Spejnar | they use GS, I bet I can find something more annoying |
| 11:57.41 | Sidey | hm |
| 11:57.43 | Spejnar | too bad you cant send sounds over whispers, that would be fun |
| 11:58.30 | sylvanaar_atwork | krka: can i replace my luaJ dependancy with Kahlua? does it have all of luaJ in it |
| 11:58.42 | Sidey | you could use voicechat to share your farts :] |
| 11:59.22 | Spejnar | so a func in lua can return multiple data types? i.e. ints and strings from the same? |
| 11:59.46 | Sidey | yes |
| 11:59.49 | Spejnar | cool |
| 11:59.53 | Spejnar | or not cool, im not sure |
| 12:00.06 | Spejnar | trying to figure out the error in the code |
| 12:00.12 | Spejnar | but the error msg was alittle vague |
| 12:00.34 | Sidey | what was it |
| 12:00.46 | Spejnar | unsupported operand type(s) for /: 'Range' and 'int' |
| 12:01.01 | zenzio | that's not lua |
| 12:01.05 | Spejnar | its not? :O |
| 12:01.15 | zenzio | it's python |
| 12:01.17 | Spejnar | doh |
| 12:01.27 | Spejnar | oh well, still trying ^^ |
| 12:01.38 | Spejnar | and Ive actually read some python >.< |
| 12:02.00 | Adys | er yeah that paste was not lua |
| 12:02.08 | Spejnar | old |
| 12:02.09 | Adys | its not a wow addon at all |
| 12:02.16 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (~airtonix@unaffiliated/airtonix) |
| 12:02.26 | Spejnar | well due to the "Range" I took a guess |
| 12:02.31 | Spejnar | guess I was wrong |
| 12:02.41 | Adys | it's a spellstring parser! |
| 12:02.47 | Adys | http://dpaste.com/193181/ |
| 12:02.53 | Adys | and it's not done at all |
| 12:12.33 | krka | sylvanaar_atwork: no not yet, busy with work stuff, i just noticed that your module has dependencies which aren't included, and such |
| 12:13.00 | krka | sylvanaar_atwork: kahlua includes a fork of luajs compiler, but other than that, nothing from luaj |
| 12:13.21 | krka | you could probably use kahlua instead of luaj completely though |
| 12:14.00 | krka | well, kahlua lacks some standard library stuff such as debug.*, not sure if you're using those |
| 12:14.00 | zenzio | false or not, this has to be the best forum signature I've ever seen... "<Clampy> "I remeber when i first started my character and i was leveling as protection wearing spirit gear and it took me about a year to go from 1-30. but i didnt care! because everything was new and exciting and I WAS A WARRIOR!"" |
| 12:14.33 | Fisker | hey krka |
| 12:14.38 | Fisker | not so hey zenzio though |
| 12:17.12 | haste | Use two iPads, multitask! |
| 12:17.28 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 12:20.34 | Fisker | i hate apple |
| 12:25.24 | krka | sylvanaar_atwork: it seems you're only using luaj to compile it in LuaJExternalAnnotator, so you could probably use Kahlua there instead |
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| 12:28.56 | airtonix | Fisker, thoughtCrime |
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| 12:30.24 | sylvanaar_atwork | krka: yeah - it compiles without LuaJ just fine - I'll switch to useing Kahlua |
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| 12:35.55 | *** join/#wowuidev amro (~amro@41.102.182.7) |
| 12:37.24 | sylvanaar_atwork | krka: what is your equivalent of LuaC |
| 12:41.21 | sylvanaar_atwork | krka: actually I may need your help porting LuaJExternalAnnotator, im not sure your interfaces match LuaJ's |
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| 12:48.47 | Fisker | airtonix |
| 12:48.49 | Fisker | i hate you |
| 12:52.04 | Kalroth | ./violin |
| 12:52.14 | *** join/#wowuidev chrippa (~chrippa@tanuki.se) |
| 12:52.30 | alestane | And this makes him special *how* exactly, Fisker? |
| 12:53.45 | krka | sylvanaar_atwork: LuaCompiler |
| 12:54.25 | krka | i guess the compilation error output might differ slightly |
| 12:55.13 | sylvanaar_atwork | yeah, what is its equivalent of luaJ's install() |
| 12:55.30 | krka | LuaCompiler.install :) |
| 12:55.31 | sylvanaar_atwork | register? |
| 12:55.34 | krka | or register |
| 12:55.36 | krka | sorry |
| 12:56.09 | krka | http://github.com/krka/kahlua2/blob/master/j2se/src/se/krka/kahlua/j2se/J2SEPlatform.java |
| 12:56.15 | krka | but that's just for exposing the compiler for end uers |
| 12:56.17 | krka | *users |
| 12:56.18 | krka | if you want that |
| 12:56.35 | krka | anyway, if you look at the J2SEPlatform class you'll see how all the default stuff is exposed to the end user |
| 12:56.54 | sylvanaar_atwork | ok, im looking now |
| 12:57.03 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 12:57.44 | krka | it's probably easier for you to simply use the J2SEPlatform when setting up the environment for the interpreter |
| 12:57.53 | krka | you don't need to register just to use the compiler |
| 12:58.04 | krka | LuaCompiler.loadis() is all you need to compile |
| 12:58.50 | Wobin | Cairenn, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaIS7E_B9wQ&feature=player_embedded |
| 12:59.14 | Cairenn | lol |
| 13:04.52 | Fisker | shoos Cairenn back into bed |
| 13:05.09 | Cairenn | hasn't been there yet, so can't shoo me /back/ into bed |
| 13:05.20 | Fisker | not ever? |
| 13:05.26 | Cairenn | okay, point |
| 13:05.29 | Fisker | :3 |
| 13:06.07 | sylvanaar_atwork | krka: i do have to pass the compiler an environment |
| 13:06.21 | Fisker | it's horrible when you have to use Firefox to properly use account management features |
| 13:07.37 | krka | sylvanaar_atwork: true |
| 13:07.49 | krka | that's only to set the default environment of the closures that get generated |
| 13:08.29 | sylvanaar_atwork | in this case i am just using the compiler to syntax check - so can i pass an empty environment? |
| 13:08.36 | krka | yeah |
| 13:08.39 | krka | or even null probably |
| 13:08.47 | krka | let me inspect the code to verify that claim :) |
| 13:09.10 | krka | ah yes |
| 13:09.12 | krka | you can pass null |
| 13:11.10 | sylvanaar_atwork | null is even better |
| 13:11.21 | sylvanaar_atwork | ok last bit - is how do i get errors from the compiler |
| 13:12.19 | krka | catch exception :) |
| 13:12.29 | sylvanaar_atwork | lol, k |
| 13:12.54 | krka | can catch KahluaException specifically |
| 13:13.03 | krka | the compile error is in the getMessage() |
| 13:14.08 | *** join/#wowuidev luigithekid (~chatzilla@190.72.37.2) |
| 13:14.17 | sylvanaar_atwork | i found it - great let me test this out |
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| 13:15.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Guardix (~Martin@188.178.102.237) |
| 13:15.23 | Cairenn | huggles Lopeppeppy |
| 13:15.43 | Lopeppeppy | Morning, Cairenn. Hoppy Twosdaze? |
| 13:15.53 | Cairenn | Meh, it's a Tuesday |
| 13:16.23 | Cairenn | You? |
| 13:16.31 | Cairenn | Or is it too early yet to know? |
| 13:16.34 | Lopeppeppy | Soon I have to go spend 3 hours straight training one single sheeple how to be a web person. I'm wondering if I can slash my wrists with a strand of ivy instead. :) |
| 13:16.46 | Cairenn | heh |
| 13:16.55 | zenzio | no peppy, that's wrong |
| 13:17.03 | zenzio | along the road, not across the street |
| 13:17.53 | Lopeppeppy | You know, my friend teaches ESL and is having a hard time with the "across/next to/beside" concepts, wonder if this would help? |
| 13:18.08 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep` (~nuoHep@83.220.61.106) |
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| 13:22.31 | sylvanaar_atwork | krka: thanks for the help. i'll have to debug it when i get off work this evening. but i have pushed the current code back to bitbucket |
| 13:23.42 | krka | if you call it with name: "=whatever" or "@whatever" then it will print with "whatever:linenumber bla bla bla" |
| 13:23.56 | krka | otherwise it will be something like [string whatever]:linenumber |
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| 13:36.42 | Sidey | de |
| 13:39.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Mikk (~Mikk@WoWUIDev/mikk) |
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| 13:47.13 | Fisker | zenzelezz |
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| 13:51.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (~Kaso@89.240.5.140) |
| 13:51.45 | Legorol | does SC2 work on the Mac atm? |
| 13:52.13 | Legorol | do you need to be able to run the system check utility in order to be able to add SC2 to your battle.net account? |
| 13:52.17 | alestane | Yes, although performance was not great when I tried it. |
| 13:52.32 | alestane | Although 10.6.4 may help with that. |
| 13:52.33 | Legorol | a friend of mine is having trouble adding SC2, and they can't run the system check, they suspect that's the problem |
| 13:53.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Pneumatus^ (~WiN@81.174.255.131) |
| 13:53.24 | Legorol | alestane, you got a Mac? any trouble runnign the system check thingy? |
| 13:53.25 | alestane | I ran it on a Windows machine, then downloaded the Mac client when it was available. |
| 13:53.27 | Legorol | and thanks for the answers btw |
| 13:53.35 | Legorol | aha |
| 13:53.38 | Legorol | that's a smart way around it |
| 13:54.10 | alestane | And I think I had some issues because the system check wanted to submit its results through a browser window and that complicated thigns somehow. |
| 13:56.46 | Legorol | was that difficulty on windows? |
| 13:57.02 | alestane | Not that I recall. |
| 13:57.17 | Fisker | lol |
| 13:57.18 | Legorol | so you did try to run it on a Mac as well, and you had the problem there |
| 13:57.27 | Fisker | why do they give you 300,000 rep with Ashen Verdict? |
| 13:57.31 | alestane | The issue on Mac was more user error because the way it interacted with Firefox was weird. |
| 13:57.33 | Fisker | when completing shadowmourne |
| 13:57.37 | Legorol | gotcha, thanks |
| 13:58.10 | Legorol | fisker: i guess because it would be silly to complete it and not be exalted? |
| 13:58.12 | Kaso | Fisker: i guess if you've gone to that much effort and not managed to get exalted yet you really deserve it |
| 13:58.13 | Legorol | so just in case |
| 13:58.35 | Kaso | 300,000 is an odd figure though |
| 13:58.43 | Legorol | it's a fun figure :) |
| 13:58.45 | Legorol | any big number will do |
| 13:58.46 | Fisker | i'm wondering if that's even possible Legorol |
| 13:58.50 | Legorol | me too |
| 13:58.54 | Legorol | considering you have to grind 1000 souls |
| 13:59.15 | Legorol | but, trash only gives like 5 rep per mob, so that's not much rep |
| 13:59.19 | Legorol | and maybe you haven't done anything else |
| 13:59.29 | Legorol | kill a few bosses here and there, not a lot of rep |
| 13:59.51 | Kaso | its probally possible if you get boosted through it or something, but very unlikely for 99% of people who get it |
| 14:00.14 | Legorol | flexes |
| 14:00.21 | Legorol | i'm in bronze league, i just defeated a gold league person |
| 14:00.24 | Legorol | (talking about SC2) |
| 14:00.25 | *** part/#wowuidev Kaso (~Kaso@89.240.5.140) |
| 14:00.48 | Fisker | hacker |
| 14:02.16 | alestane | I play "for fun." |
| 14:03.06 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (~Miranda@85.108.34.95.customer.cdi.no) |
| 14:11.09 | *** join/#wowuidev digmouse (~chatzilla@111.193.195.234) |
| 14:13.35 | *** part/#wowuidev steino (steino@baka.no) |
| 14:15.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (~Kaso@89.240.5.140) |
| 14:16.26 | p3lim | #Hovering over the Chat Frame and using the mouse wheel will allow players to scroll through chat text. |
| 14:16.36 | p3lim | grats blizzard, only took you like 4 years :p |
| 14:17.03 | haste | god forbid priorities |
| 14:17.48 | p3lim | by now its stupid to add it to the game itself, every single chat addon has it already. And its probably just single scroll, no more options/modes |
| 14:17.52 | Bruners | each time they do something with the UI people start whining about not using enough time on new content |
| 14:18.15 | airtonix | chuckles |
| 14:18.24 | Bruners | p3lim: some people don't use addons |
| 14:18.32 | airtonix | praise the lord a new tree! |
| 14:18.49 | p3lim | Bruners: what? :O |
| 14:19.02 | airtonix | Bruners, does not compute |
| 14:19.20 | alestane | About 2/3 of the wow population uses no add-ons at all. |
| 14:19.25 | p3lim | # A new icon has been added to the top left of the Chat Frame which will open up the Friends list. |
| 14:19.33 | p3lim | god damnit, more stuff to remove :&¨ |
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| 14:20.41 | haste | I thought you said you didn't play anyway :P ? |
| 14:21.12 | airtonix | busted |
| 14:21.27 | alestane | Because every time they add something 500 people have been begging for, 200 other people whine that it's useless. |
| 14:21.31 | Kaso | airtonix: new tree? as in druid ? |
| 14:22.14 | p3lim | haste: temporary break, but when I come back I have to remove it :/ |
| 14:22.18 | airtonix | Kaso, no as in a sarcastic remark about new landscape so let us praise the gods of blizzard of their glorius landscaping abilities but woe unto thee should you mention UI improvements |
| 14:22.24 | Kaso | oh |
| 14:22.34 | Kaso | i got excited there was something in the patch notes i missed :( |
| 14:22.42 | haste | general usability > power users anyway p3lim |
| 14:22.47 | haste | whining about improvements is just stupid |
| 14:23.00 | Kaso | They're slow to add stuff like mousewheel scrolling, but it took them only 1 minipatch to implement the "Show who is setting all those annoying raid marks" function |
| 14:23.10 | p3lim | well, having two buttons on the UI for social panel is just silly |
| 14:23.18 | Kaso | so the message here is that if you want a feature, write an addon to abuse it and annoy people |
| 14:24.40 | p3lim | thanks for the top Kaso, now I will exploit the new RealID broadcast thing :D |
| 14:24.43 | p3lim | tip* |
| 14:30.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Gintaro (~Gintaro@cc1040670-a.gorre1.fr.home.nl) |
| 14:31.01 | olafski | yeah.. I saw battle.net is getting /amsg :P |
| 14:32.01 | olafski | will they make some kind of web sign in too btw, any word on that? |
| 14:32.08 | olafski | so you can chat with your b.net friends when you're not in game |
| 14:37.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Odlaw (~ozzy@c-98-245-3-204.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 14:40.57 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO^ (~ako@neo.maryland2600.org) |
| 14:44.11 | Fisker | /amsg |
| 14:44.12 | Fisker | ? |
| 14:44.26 | Fisker | you mean the little note you can set as your status? |
| 14:44.52 | olafski | A Broadcast window has been added to the top of the frame. Players can use this to broadcast a message to all of their Real ID friends online. |
| 14:45.32 | Fisker | hardly /amsg |
| 14:45.37 | Kalroth | what about /amg |
| 14:45.49 | Kaso | twitter in wow |
| 14:45.56 | Kaso | bet itll be limited to 140 |
| 14:46.01 | olafski | :) |
| 14:46.02 | Kaso | or 255 |
| 14:46.02 | Fisker | i wouldn't be surprised |
| 14:46.13 | Fisker | coming in 3.3.7 - Twitter integration! |
| 14:46.18 | olafski | really? I was going to paste my thesis in there to ask for criticism |
| 14:46.31 | Wobin | is your thesis on Twitter? |
| 14:46.38 | olafski | guess I better start on an addon that splits it up in small chunks and sends those :) |
| 14:46.46 | Fisker | it's going to suck if/when they start integrating facebook and twitter into the game |
| 14:46.47 | Kaso | lol |
| 14:46.58 | olafski | so don't use that feature |
| 14:47.09 | airtonix | Fisker, thats ncsoft hallmark |
| 14:47.20 | Fisker | i'm quite capable of doing that olafski |
| 14:47.28 | olafski | great fisker |
| 14:47.31 | olafski | then there's no issue :) |
| 14:47.32 | Fisker | A game just seems ruined to me when i see a blue F or T logo |
| 14:47.40 | olafski | so don't play the game! |
| 14:47.45 | olafski | there, everybody's happy |
| 14:47.46 | Fisker | durr |
| 14:47.53 | Fisker | WHAT ABOUT MY HAPPINESS?! |
| 14:48.10 | Fisker | i wish i had a mac so i could test steam on mac :( |
| 14:48.11 | Wobin | it gets ruined? |
| 14:48.21 | krka | sylvanaar_atwork: FYI - i just changed the behaviour of the error reporting in kahlua2 on github, the format is now: <name>:<line>: <compile error>, assuming you provide a name when compiling |
| 14:48.36 | olafski | maybe the forums won't get facebook integration.. then you can still troll the forums, that seems to consume most of your time anyway :) |
| 14:48.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Osagasu (~Creek@67-197-1-37.rh1.dyn.cm.comporium.net) |
| 14:48.55 | krka | also, names should no longer start with = or @ |
| 14:50.22 | Fisker | why would i troll olafski ? |
| 14:50.31 | olafski | if only we knew |
| 14:51.00 | Fisker | if only i knew |
| 14:51.23 | Fisker | it's the perfect rule olafski |
| 14:51.55 | Fisker | Anything against your personal opinion gets classified and dismissed as trolling |
| 14:53.43 | industrial | trolling someone in real life |
| 14:54.01 | industrial | i.e. saying stupid things to make someone angry at you because you supposedly are a retard who doesn't understand |
| 14:54.16 | industrial | I can't picture someone doing that. |
| 14:54.31 | industrial | Why do people do this on the internet? what is the fun? |
| 14:54.57 | olafski | maybe they want to do it in real life but are afraid |
| 14:55.12 | olafski | on the internet you can do pretty much whatever you want without repercussions |
| 14:55.48 | industrial | so obstructing other people in their spare time in your spare time is your spare time? |
| 14:55.56 | industrial | that's pretty sad then isn't it? |
| 14:57.20 | olafski | yes :) |
| 14:57.47 | olafski | an unfortunate reality of using the internet I guess.. I can live with it and most of the time either manually or automatically ignore it |
| 15:00.00 | cog|work | Fisker: </3 |
| 15:00.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Mikk (~Mikk@78-73-111-137-no162.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 15:00.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Mikk (~Mikk@WoWUIDev/mikk) |
| 15:01.41 | alestane | http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp10172004.shtml I'm occasionally afraid that one day I'll discover that all I am is the guy in the last couple panels. |
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| 15:06.33 | zenzelezz | "'Something UI designers have known for a long time is that the simpler an interface looks, the faster it will seem,' said director of Firefox Mike Beltzner during the presentation." |
| 15:06.51 | zenzelezz | yeah... "wow, this feels so slow... but look at the UI, it can't possible be!" |
| 15:07.39 | Vangual | was that statement taken right before he announced personas? |
| 15:08.42 | haste | probably taken from the firefox 4 talk or whatever it was |
| 15:08.47 | zenzelezz | http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/357844/mozilla-firms-up-firefox-4-plans |
| 15:08.48 | zenzelezz | yeah |
| 15:10.59 | alestane | Why do we need a Firefox 4 at this time? |
| 15:11.25 | airtonix | gief ff4 shots |
| 15:11.26 | haste | I just hope they focus on making their UI more responsive |
| 15:11.50 | airtonix | i blame xul |
| 15:11.59 | zenzelezz | haste: agreed |
| 15:12.47 | haste | yeh, xul is probably the reason |
| 15:13.09 | zenzelezz | main reason at least |
| 15:13.15 | zenzelezz | I suspect it could do with some threading |
| 15:13.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Zyonin (~Zyonin@93-38-79-252.ip69.fastwebnet.it) |
| 15:13.43 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Zyonin] by ChanServ |
| 15:13.44 | haste | current electrolysis builds aren't helping much at least :P |
| 15:13.54 | zenzelezz | electrolysis? |
| 15:13.57 | airtonix | how fare it you think if xul were merely a prototyping stage and implemtation requires it be compiled ? |
| 15:14.17 | haste | zenzelezz: their chrome like process setup |
| 15:14.27 | *** join/#wowuidev davis (davis@pilot.trilug.org) |
| 15:14.29 | haste | https://wiki.mozilla.org/Electrolysis |
| 15:14.30 | zenzelezz | haste: oh |
| 15:14.53 | davis | hello |
| 15:15.10 | Cairenn | Davis! Wow, ltns |
| 15:16.15 | davis | What is the best way to develop add-ons? I find edit, start wow, test, exit wow, edit, cycles slow. I tried wowlua to get sandbox env but I could not get it work. |
| 15:16.31 | Kaso | reload ui |
| 15:16.33 | Cairenn | Okay, different Davis, sorry |
| 15:16.36 | davis | np |
| 15:16.48 | Kaso | you shouldnt need to restart wow except for big changes |
| 15:16.55 | Kaso | like new files toc changes etc |
| 15:17.15 | haste | reloadui does wonders |
| 15:17.19 | davis | if you edit a file.lua, reload ui is sufficient? |
| 15:17.22 | haste | yes |
| 15:17.31 | haste | only new files and toc changes need restart |
| 15:17.34 | davis | how about if you get a stack error? |
| 15:17.38 | haste | same |
| 15:17.41 | davis | cool |
| 15:17.46 | davis | life just got easier |
| 15:17.48 | jnwhiteh | Is there a Cork LDB feed? |
| 15:18.07 | davis | do you need the wow ui dev kit to reload ui? |
| 15:18.17 | Fisker | hey jnwhiteh |
| 15:18.23 | alestane | A stack error just bails the current Lua execution, WoW calls Lua in protected mode (otherwise a Lua error would crash WoW). |
| 15:18.23 | Fisker | didn't you get a macbook or something? |
| 15:18.56 | Kaso | davis: no, iirc i think /reloadui is a default in game command but some might correct me on that |
| 15:19.02 | jnwhiteh | Fisker: the new MBP |
| 15:19.03 | davis | ok cool |
| 15:19.06 | davis | many thanks. |
| 15:19.10 | jnwhiteh | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:19.21 | Kaso | ^ this |
| 15:19.26 | Kaso | but i like /rl the best |
| 15:19.30 | Kaso | extra chars save |
| 15:19.35 | Fisker | jnwhiteh i want to test steam can't you send it to me? |
| 15:19.44 | Fisker | btw olafski |
| 15:19.46 | Fisker | i'm disappoint |
| 15:19.55 | Fisker | I was explaining someone on the PTR forums why they were wrong |
| 15:20.10 | Kaso | also davis disable all other addons except from dev addons or the one you are testing, it will dramatically improve you reload time and reduce frustration |
| 15:20.13 | Fisker | I submit the post wait a few minutes return to the index, only to the PTR forums were wiped clean by Blizzard |
| 15:20.14 | davis | does anybody use wowlua for off line stuff? |
| 15:20.15 | Fisker | FFFFFUUUUUUUU- |
| 15:20.35 | davis | kaso that sounds good, i'll do that as well. thanks |
| 15:20.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Teomyr (teo@HSI-KBW-085-216-123-189.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 15:20.56 | Kaso | i have a special alt all set up for addon work |
| 15:21.01 | olafski | and don't stand in dalaran if you have a lot of reloading to do, unless you need to be there to test your addon :) |
| 15:21.14 | Kaso | parked at my favourite spot, in the middle of silithus up a tower |
| 15:21.27 | davis | looks around, i would like to play with some code while in meetings. |
| 15:21.55 | davis | so another reason a sandbox would be cool with me. |
| 15:21.59 | Kaso | you can only do real basic syntax checking with wowlua i think |
| 15:22.09 | Kaso | whatever happened do wowbench? does anyone recall that |
| 15:22.14 | davis | i installed it, but could not find any docs |
| 15:22.31 | davis | and I had no idea how to get it work. |
| 15:22.56 | davis | i also saw workbench but it looked like it was no longer maintained. |
| 15:23.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan| (~pancake@cpe-174-098-002-214.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 15:24.23 | Kaso | i think you're really best just coding blind when you haven't got wow, then sorting out all the bugs later. Im not aware of any really good offline dev enviroments |
| 15:25.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (kalroth@d40aa93b.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 15:25.57 | Fisker | Target post deleted |
| 15:25.59 | Fisker | :( |
| 15:26.04 | Fisker | EVERY FREAKING TIME olafski |
| 15:26.24 | Fisker | I think Blizzard may have developed the best moderation post of all time |
| 15:26.41 | Fisker | They simply have a moderator visit the links i visit, they are obviously in need of moderation |
| 15:26.56 | Kaso | lol |
| 15:27.09 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 15:27.23 | davis | ok thanks |
| 15:27.25 | Wobin | hm |
| 15:27.38 | Wobin | can anyone find out more information about the registrar for www.battleping.com? |
| 15:28.07 | Wobin | it's registered by netregistry.com.au, but I can't get any further info about who actually did the registration |
| 15:28.08 | foxlit | "World Server is Down" |
| 15:28.11 | Kalroth | more than http://whois.domaintools.com/battleping.com ? |
| 15:28.17 | foxlit | What is this madness? |
| 15:28.22 | davis | fwiw, here is the page for lua-wow, http://luaforge.net/projects/lua-wow/ |
| 15:28.35 | davis | i dont see anything other than binaries there. |
| 15:28.39 | Wobin | Kalroth, ah that's perfect |
| 15:28.39 | cog|work | lurvs his little blue pill. Aleve! It's aleve! (well, generic naproxen, anyway) What did you think he was /me'ing about?? |
| 15:29.00 | alestane | Hey look, someone found a use for Fisker; he's a miner's canary for forum mayhem. |
| 15:29.50 | Fisker | Registrant Name: Chris Gurney |
| 15:29.51 | Fisker | Registrant Organization: Battleping |
| 15:29.51 | Fisker | Registrant Street 1: 12 Franklin Court |
| 15:30.02 | Fisker | need moar? |
| 15:30.06 | davis | it looks like all they do is allow you to luac your .lua code. |
| 15:30.06 | cog|work | battles your ping |
| 15:30.10 | Fisker | baww Kalroth |
| 15:30.57 | Mikk | davis: basically |
| 15:31.03 | Mikk | or run it in little test frameworks of your own |
| 15:31.14 | Mikk | it's in no way a wow emulator and not intended to be |
| 15:31.39 | davis | ok thanks |
| 15:31.41 | Mikk | you can check out Ace3 via svn if you like - it's got a "tests" folder |
| 15:31.57 | Mikk | with its own little mini framework emulator - just enough to run let Ace3 think it's running inside WoW |
| 15:32.02 | davis | I like the bit about in top of a tower in slithis |
| 15:32.26 | davis | i'll look into ace as well. |
| 15:32.27 | zenzelezz | cog|work: you're using VS2010, right? Is it as they claimed that the IDE doesn't choke on the NCBs anymore? (I know they use a different backend now) |
| 15:32.44 | Mikk | just deletes NCBs periodically |
| 15:33.00 | Mikk | ... or used to back when he was using VS |
| 15:33.10 | zenzelezz | Mikk: they use an SQL backend now |
| 15:33.35 | Mikk | >.< |
| 15:33.43 | Mikk | YAY more slowness to the people! |
| 15:34.02 | Kalroth | wut? |
| 15:34.03 | zenzelezz | you need to remember what they *were* doing |
| 15:34.07 | zenzelezz | the NCB solution was fucked |
| 15:34.17 | Mikk | yeah i never looked into the innards of the NCB files |
| 15:34.33 | zenzelezz | half the time I entered a function I had to wait a second or two for the IDE to detect where the heck I was |
| 15:34.34 | Mikk | Kalroth: SQL anything = grats x10 slowdown compared to anything remotely sanely custom build |
| 15:34.50 | foxlit | That's an exceedingly sweeping statement |
| 15:34.53 | Kalroth | Mikk: That depends a lot on your data |
| 15:35.03 | Kalroth | Saying SQL is slow is flat out wrong |
| 15:35.04 | zenzelezz | Mikk: you need to read up on the changes |
| 15:35.10 | Wobin | http://www.integrinet.com.au/ |
| 15:35.11 | zenzelezz | they don't scan the whole file all the time; only what they need |
| 15:35.12 | Wobin | aha |
| 15:35.18 | zenzelezz | it's actually very well done, from the sounds of it |
| 15:35.19 | Wobin | that's the bloke who runs battleping =P |
| 15:35.25 | zenzelezz | which is why I'm asking cog|work for his view :-p |
| 15:35.41 | Kalroth | Wobin: That isn't his picture :p |
| 15:35.44 | Mikk | Kalroth: ok true. depends on data. but looking at real world implementations and uses of SQL backends.... argh. |
| 15:36.07 | Wobin | well, he set up the site =P |
| 15:36.13 | cog|work | i don't use it heavily enough to notice that kind of thing -_- |
| 15:36.15 | Fisker | http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/update-new-attack-bypasses-every-windows-security-product/8268 <-mm fudge |
| 15:36.18 | Mikk | SQL was developed as a central standardized way of storing data that needed to be accessible by multiple applications |
| 15:36.21 | cog|work | all i know is it does what i want :P |
| 15:36.22 | Kalroth | Well you're going to make a mess if you try to use a hammer as a fork. |
| 15:36.31 | Mikk | think "large coroporations" |
| 15:36.45 | Mikk | but somehow along the line it got mutated into "need storage? SQL!!!!!" |
| 15:36.48 | Wobin | Kalroth, and registered the business =P |
| 15:37.03 | Kalroth | Wobin: It's a trap! |
| 15:37.13 | Kalroth | Mikk: Well faster hardware, more memory, etc - why not! |
| 15:37.50 | Kalroth | You can make a custom solution which is 10-15% faster (wildly inaccurate number) or use an existing data solution |
| 15:37.59 | Mikk | tell that to your average webapp that chokes if more than the developer himself and his boss is browsing the site |
| 15:38.09 | cog|work | Mikk: you act as if development effort has no impact on design decisions |
| 15:38.09 | Mikk | not to mention getting linked to from somewhere semipopular |
| 15:38.18 | Wobin | eh, that's enough internet stalking for one night |
| 15:38.25 | Kalroth | That has nothing to do with SQL though :) |
| 15:38.40 | Mikk | er yeah right :P |
| 15:38.41 | cog|work | SQL can easily be the path of least resistance |
| 15:38.52 | cog|work | even if it's "overkill" |
| 15:38.58 | Mikk | i mean look at ... oh.. something like visitor tracking in some cobbled-together site |
| 15:39.06 | Mikk | OF COURSE all visitors get put into an SQL table |
| 15:39.10 | Mikk | and for each page |
| 15:39.15 | Mikk | a SELECT COUNT is executed on the table |
| 15:39.19 | Mikk | along with timeouts |
| 15:39.23 | Mikk | WOOP WOOP |
| 15:39.32 | cog|work | that's got nothing to do with sql |
| 15:39.32 | Kalroth | Yeah, but not using SQL wouldn't fix that :p |
| 15:39.35 | cog|work | lern2cachenub |
| 15:39.36 | Wobin | not too bad if the table is indexed =P |
| 15:39.45 | Mikk | why not just keep it in RAM :S |
| 15:39.46 | Wobin | and also, what cog said |
| 15:39.54 | Wobin | because it's volatile? |
| 15:40.02 | Mikk | "visitors to this site right now: 123" |
| 15:40.04 | Mikk | ^ volatile |
| 15:40.05 | cog|work | sql is about persistence |
| 15:40.17 | Wobin | that's a stupid metric |
| 15:40.27 | Wobin | how do you define 'right now'? |
| 15:40.36 | foxlit | Because, when you're cobbling together your website, you're likely unaware of persistent RAM storage. |
| 15:40.37 | Mikk | usually last couple of minutes |
| 15:40.44 | Mikk | yeah but SOMEHOW |
| 15:40.46 | Mikk | SOMEWHERE |
| 15:40.47 | Mikk | along the line |
| 15:40.50 | Mikk | everyone learned about SQL |
| 15:40.57 | Mikk | the large corporation combined storage system |
| 15:41.02 | Kalroth | uhm |
| 15:41.12 | foxlit | Would you much rather they wrote to a file? |
| 15:41.24 | Wobin | Mikk would prefer they don't write it anywhere |
| 15:41.33 | Kalroth | (hint: sqlite) |
| 15:41.35 | Wobin | cause who needs to know customer tracking anyhow =P |
| 15:41.37 | Mikk | frankly a lot of applications would benefit from just flat named text files in a lot of cases |
| 15:41.39 | airtonix | /dev/null is a fast place |
| 15:41.48 | Mikk | same effort |
| 15:41.49 | foxlit | flat named text files would break things, too. |
| 15:41.54 | Mikk | faster |
| 15:41.56 | Mikk | less breakage |
| 15:41.56 | zenzelezz | Mikk: sure... add text parsing, that'll speed things up |
| 15:41.58 | foxlit | You'd get issues with read/write concurrency |
| 15:42.00 | cog|work | actually, key-value storage systems are becoming pretty popular |
| 15:42.03 | foxlit | You'd get issues with IO |
| 15:42.13 | Mikk | eh? |
| 15:42.13 | cog|work | for precisely these reasons |
| 15:42.19 | Mikk | file cache much? |
| 15:42.20 | Mikk | it works |
| 15:42.28 | Wobin | ok |
| 15:42.29 | Mikk | happens automatically on any OS newer than DOS 3.3 |
| 15:42.30 | Kalroth | SQL does not equal a huge enterprisey solution, you can do fairly simple installations with SQLite or even MS SQL Express |
| 15:42.36 | Wobin | it works |
| 15:42.36 | Wobin | but for -what-? |
| 15:42.38 | Mikk | Kalroth: i know |
| 15:42.40 | cog|work | Mikk: what you just said applies equally well to sql |
| 15:42.51 | Wobin | you're saying SQL is terrible! |
| 15:42.52 | cog|work | smells troll |
| 15:43.04 | Mikk | i'm saying that SQL is horribly misused in the vast majority of cases |
| 15:43.04 | Wobin | but you need a little more specificity about what it's terrible for |
| 15:43.10 | Wobin | that's a broad statement |
| 15:43.15 | Kalroth | Mikk: Sure, so is IRC. Right now! |
| 15:43.26 | Wobin | I could say intelligence is horribly misued in the vast majority of cases |
| 15:43.35 | Mikk | this would also likely be true :P |
| 15:43.42 | Kalroth | Wobin is horribly misused in the vast majority of cases |
| 15:43.45 | Mikk | ^^ |
| 15:43.55 | cog|work | Fisker's mom is horribly misused in the vast majority of cases |
| 15:43.57 | Mikk | yeah sorry for beating the sad horse |
| 15:43.57 | Wobin | It's true too |
| 15:43.59 | Mikk | i have a beef with SQL |
| 15:44.03 | Wobin | sad horse! |
| 15:44.04 | cog|work | we noticed :P |
| 15:44.05 | Wobin | sad horse! |
| 15:44.19 | Mikk | because i've been put in the situation of trying to untangle horrible webapps that croak too many times |
| 15:44.25 | mikma | wobin: amazing horse! |
| 15:44.30 | Mikk | and all because EVERY FUCKING PAGE NEEDS TO EXECUTE THREE DOZEN SQL QUERIES |
| 15:44.35 | Kalroth | But I don't think I agree with that either, needing a full SQL Server installation for a tiny app is dumb, but Visual Studio is anything but tiny these days |
| 15:44.37 | Mikk | headdesk |
| 15:44.55 | cog|work | Mikk: that's developer fail not SQL fail |
| 15:44.57 | foxlit | Bad code will be bad code, regardless of underlying technology |
| 15:44.59 | cog|work | misapplied intelligence |
| 15:45.20 | Adys | cog|work: or framework fail |
| 15:45.27 | airtonix | Fisker, are you scared ? |
| 15:45.33 | Kalroth | Adys: or language fail |
| 15:45.36 | Aqua | you know they have a compact sql right? |
| 15:45.46 | Kalroth | who are they |
| 15:45.47 | airtonix | Fisker, do you have khobephobia yet ? |
| 15:45.56 | Adys | Kalroth: SQL fails, I agree |
| 15:46.01 | Kalroth | no it doesn't |
| 15:46.07 | Adys | you just said it did |
| 15:46.12 | Mikk | i do |
| 15:46.14 | Kalroth | Where? :p |
| 15:46.18 | Adys | [16:45:30] <Kalroth> Adys: or language fail |
| 15:46.26 | alestane | Or maybe you have pantophobia. Do you have pantophobia, Charlie Brown? |
| 15:46.28 | Kalroth | no I was referring to Python there |
| 15:46.29 | Adys | and since SQL is the only language we're talking about |
| 15:46.35 | Adys | SQL fails |
| 15:46.38 | Adys | unless you meant danish |
| 15:46.41 | Mikk | ~Adys++ |
| 15:46.42 | cog|work | I really like LINQ |
| 15:46.46 | Kalroth | you said framework |
| 15:46.47 | Kalroth | SQL isn't a framework |
| 15:46.57 | Adys | but we weren't talking about any framework |
| 15:46.58 | cog|work | it's much more intuitive than SQL |
| 15:47.00 | *** join/#wowuidev [Wobin] (~Wobin@203-214-143-109.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 15:47.03 | Adys | we WERE however talking about a language |
| 15:47.04 | Fisker | hey cog|work |
| 15:47.09 | Fisker | i like saying cog|work |
| 15:47.13 | cog|work | Adys: no they were talking about the storage mechanism |
| 15:47.14 | Fisker | or work|cog |
| 15:47.18 | Adys | orite |
| 15:47.19 | Kalroth | LINQ tries too hard to hide SQL, so I dislike it :P |
| 15:47.20 | [Wobin] | Mikk, I would say, that in a majority of cases, SQL is easier to deal with than homebrewing a storage mechanism |
| 15:47.33 | [Wobin] | Kalroth, I'd agree... if LINQ weren't so damn handy to use =P |
| 15:47.42 | Kalroth | Slackers! |
| 15:47.47 | Aqua | microsoft (in visual studio) you can choose to setup a Sql Server Compact Data File 3.5 (you don't have to have a big install of sql for a small program) |
| 15:47.52 | Adys | sql orms = layer upon layer upon layer upon layer |
| 15:47.56 | Adys | add a layer or two to that |
| 15:47.58 | Mikk | [Wobin]: have you tried writing distributable applications using SQL? |
| 15:48.05 | Mikk | And dealt with the upgrade script nightmare? |
| 15:48.14 | Kalroth | Aqua: Well who wants something SMALL when you're installing Visual Studio? Fuck that! |
| 15:48.36 | Aqua | well that was one argument, just stateing that you can do something small.... |
| 15:48.37 | Kalroth | Mikk is only crying because he's stuck with a Pentium 133 with 32mb ram |
| 15:48.39 | Adys | I heard Kalroth has something small to show you all |
| 15:48.42 | [Wobin] | Mikk, No =) |
| 15:48.52 | Kalroth | Adys: Oh you! I really shouldn't |
| 15:48.59 | Kalroth | opens Adys' skull and points at the brain |
| 15:49.07 | Adys | Oh, pootsy-teelie. |
| 15:51.19 | Adys | nevcairiel: i need you. |
| 15:51.28 | cog|work | if you actually look at the mathematical foundations of SQL, LINQ, and the like, you might gain a deeper respect for them. LINQ actually owes more to functional programming than anything |
| 15:51.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (~Lunessa@WoWUIDev/Lunessa) |
| 15:51.38 | Lunessa | station |
| 15:51.44 | cog|work | and functional programming is hawt |
| 15:51.45 | Adys | Denied |
| 15:51.47 | cog|work | station |
| 15:51.49 | [Wobin] | owes a lot of his time saved at work to LINQ |
| 15:51.52 | Antiarc | <3 functional programming |
| 15:51.59 | Lunessa | <3 |
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| 15:53.08 | [Wobin] | well, really |
| 15:53.14 | [Wobin] | Mikk probably -does- respect SQL |
| 15:53.20 | [Wobin] | he just bemoans the abuse of it |
| 15:53.48 | cog|work | people use X incorrectly => X is bad |
| 15:53.51 | cog|work | argumentation fail |
| 15:53.52 | cog|work | :P |
| 15:54.40 | [Wobin] | that's true also |
| 15:55.01 | [Wobin] | but I'm extrapolating from his arguments his actual gripe =) |
| 15:55.12 | Adys | cog|work: not to belittle the argument or troll or anything, but you can say that of pretty much anything in the world |
| 15:55.12 | cog|work | *nod* I saw the same pattern |
| 15:55.30 | mikma | cog|work: i use X alot with SE |
| 15:55.32 | cog|work | Adys: that's my point... that's exactly why it's not a valid argument |
| 15:55.46 | Adys | erm |
| 15:55.49 | Adys | I meant what YOU said :p |
| 15:55.52 | [Wobin] | mikma, damn you. I still have http://pics.kuvaton.com/bshit/vasy.jpg open in my browser |
| 15:55.58 | [Wobin] | and I look at it and go 'awww' |
| 15:56.22 | Adys | you can just as well say "Misusing nuclear weapons != Nuclear weapons are bad" |
| 15:56.25 | mikma | wobwork: serves you right! |
| 15:56.32 | cog|work | Adys: yes you can. |
| 15:56.51 | Adys | cog|work: what I mean is, you can say that for absolutely everything |
| 15:57.03 | cog|work | i agree. |
| 15:57.14 | cog|work | that people misuse things is never an argument against them |
| 15:57.15 | Adys | so i think when anyone says "x is bad" |
| 15:57.41 | cog|work | it can be an aggravating factor in other arguments, but in and of itself it isn't an argument |
| 15:57.41 | [Wobin] | goddamn that 'x' |
| 15:57.41 | Adys | what they really mean is, "x is not generally used for its correct purpose, or doesn't entirely fill its designed role" |
| 15:58.24 | cog|work | if you're saying you disagree with "Misusing nuclear weapons != Nuclear weapons are bad", then i see a whole other conversation coming |
| 15:59.01 | Adys | should i disagree with it, i wouldn't say "you can say that" |
| 15:59.02 | Adys | :p |
| 15:59.28 | cog|work | http://blogs.msdn.com/lukeh/archive/2007/03/19/using-linq-to-solve-puzzles.aspx |
| 15:59.51 | Adys | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9xAKttWgP4 |
| 15:59.54 | Adys | i keep rewatching it |
| 16:00.12 | cog|work | yeah i saw that a while back :) |
| 16:00.27 | Adys | yeah linked it regularly |
| 16:00.27 | jnwhiteh | prot warrior levelling heirloom |
| 16:00.28 | jnwhiteh | which one? |
| 16:00.31 | jnwhiteh | for 1h |
| 16:00.32 | Adys | jnwhiteh: valor stuff |
| 16:00.34 | Adys | ah |
| 16:00.49 | Adys | get the pvp sword offhand and MH whatever really |
| 16:00.55 | jnwhiteh | prot |
| 16:00.56 | jnwhiteh | ... |
| 16:00.58 | Adys | oh |
| 16:01.13 | Adys | well idk then |
| 16:01.19 | Adys | stupid spec! |
| 16:01.21 | cog|work | http://channel9.msdn.com/shows/Going+Deep/Lecture-Series-Erik-Meijer-Functional-Programming-Fundamentals-Chapter-1/ (ignore the source if you're a MS h8r... this is a great lecture series on functional programming in Haskell) |
| 16:01.29 | cog|work | (plus the guy has frikkin awesome tshirts) |
| 16:04.15 | Fisker | work|cog |
| 16:04.27 | airtonix | cog|work, http://www.anikaos.com/040-onion_msn_smilies/2-onion_msn_emotions/onion_msn_emotions_06.jpg |
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| 16:11.29 | mikma | adys: whaaaat is that, odd video |
| 16:12.16 | Adys | it's Life! |
| 16:12.28 | airtonix | looool |
| 16:12.31 | Fisker | btw jnwhiteh did you want to send me your new macbook pro? |
| 16:12.40 | airtonix | lol |
| 16:12.40 | jnwhiteh | nothx |
| 16:12.52 | airtonix | fiskers computer go owned by kobeh |
| 16:13.05 | Fisker | .jpg jnwhiteh ? |
| 16:13.24 | mikma | adys: yeah, but what the hell is apl and what's the game of life :D |
| 16:13.33 | Adys | !g conways game of life |
| 16:13.34 | batbot | Adys: Conway's Game of Life - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway's_Game_of_Life> |
| 16:13.44 | Adys | !g APL, A Programming Language |
| 16:13.45 | batbot | Adys: APL (programming language) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APL_(programming_language)> |
| 16:17.43 | Mikk | !g ML, programming language |
| 16:17.44 | batbot | Mikk: ML (programming language) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ML_(programming_language)> |
| 16:17.53 | Mikk | ^ i was taught that in uni |
| 16:17.59 | Mikk | didn't finish uni, never saw the point |
| 16:21.16 | Fisker | omg you never finished the universe? |
| 16:23.33 | Antiarc | http://5secondfilms.com/v31/watch/the_twilight_saga_eclipse_test_screening/585/1/ |
| 16:23.35 | Antiarc | You're all welcome. |
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| 16:26.04 | Antiarc | "In 2008, for instance, the University of California's Bonnie Nardi received a $100,000 National Science Foundation grant to study American WoW players and their use of game mods" |
| 16:26.07 | Antiarc | Crap. I want that job. |
| 16:26.20 | shifuimam | is there a way in vanilla wow to resize the mini zone map or do i have to use an addon? |
| 16:26.54 | Lunessa | you can scale it with a script, but there's no baked-in feature for that. |
| 16:27.13 | zenzelezz | vanilla WoW? |
| 16:27.56 | shifuimam | zenzelezz: e.g. an add-on-less client |
| 16:28.03 | zenzelezz | aha |
| 16:28.33 | shifuimam | i gotta say, RoM definitely beats WoW when it comes to built in client UI features |
| 16:28.35 | Thunder_Child | not so subtle hint |
| 16:29.08 | shifuimam | ? |
| 16:29.32 | Thunder_Child | i would point out shifuimam that 'vanilla wow' is usually refered to wow with no expacs |
| 16:29.40 | nevcairiel | Adys: sup? |
| 16:29.53 | Thunder_Child | usually with regards to before there were even expansions |
| 16:30.00 | shifuimam | Thunder_Child: duly noted |
| 16:30.26 | Adys | nevcairiel: http://dpaste.com/193270/ |
| 16:30.33 | Adys | I'm not done, but any comments? |
| 16:30.41 | nevcairiel | tl;dr |
| 16:30.55 | nevcairiel | anything in particular i should look at? =P |
| 16:31.04 | Adys | qq |
| 16:31.07 | Thunder_Child | the broken parts |
| 16:31.18 | Adys | entry point at the end |
| 16:31.24 | Adys | its just a token parser |
| 16:33.10 | Antiarc | shifuimam: The basic WoW UI is intentionally left basic with the expectation that people can customize it as they want to with mods |
| 16:33.22 | [Wobin] | I gotta say, WoW definitely beats RoM for being better supported by addons =P |
| 16:33.25 | Antiarc | It's intended to the minimum playable featureset |
| 16:33.48 | Kalroth | I wouldn't say minimum, rather basic |
| 16:34.03 | shifuimam | [Wobin]: i don't know about that. i've done a hell of a lot with addons in RoM |
| 16:34.19 | shifuimam | well, some really basic things would be nice, like being able to move frames around |
| 16:34.36 | [Wobin] | You note, I did say 'better supported' |
| 16:34.48 | Kalroth | shifuimam: Stupids would just move the frames on top of each other and then whine on forums about missing frames! |
| 16:34.53 | shifuimam | lolol |
| 16:35.06 | Lunessa | Actually, it's designed to just work out of the box for nearly any kind of play. People who want to customize it further have lots of options. :) |
| 16:35.23 | nevcairiel | they did admit that some parts need work though |
| 16:35.30 | nevcairiel | like the raid ui, they are not happy with its functionality |
| 16:35.34 | shifuimam | well yeah, no client is perfect |
| 16:35.47 | [Wobin] | that's why they keep incorporating the popular addons into the ui =) |
| 16:35.56 | shifuimam | i've played RoM way longer than WoW (just started playing WoW like...two weeks ago), so of course i'm partial to the client |
| 16:36.18 | zenzelezz | :) |
| 16:36.18 | Lunessa | When I'm forced to play with the default UI, I don't hate it. I don't mind it. I just organize things to be more quickly parsed by my mental habits. |
| 16:36.19 | nevcairiel | You do realize, that RoM basically stole their whole UI implementation from WoW 1.x :d |
| 16:36.32 | shifuimam | i'm not arguing the similarities, but i still like the client better |
| 16:36.36 | [Wobin] | pft, everyone steals everything from everyone else |
| 16:36.51 | [Wobin] | steals nevcairiel's UI |
| 16:36.53 | shifuimam | it wouldn't have made much sense for Runewaker to try an invent an entirely new UI for the game |
| 16:37.02 | [Wobin] | why not? |
| 16:37.07 | [Wobin] | they could have 'gotten it right' |
| 16:37.27 | shifuimam | well, i don't think that there are many different ways to do things like put a mini map and action bars on a screen |
| 16:37.45 | [Wobin] | personally, I don't care about the default UI |
| 16:37.53 | [Wobin] | as long as they expose an API that allows me to modify it |
| 16:38.07 | shifuimam | i mean, there are basic expectations on the players' parts for a UI, similar to how people except an OS UI to be a certain way - if someone tried putting the menu bar on the bottom of a window instead of the top, i don't think people would adapt kindly to it |
| 16:38.07 | [Wobin] | because the default UI will always have to appeal to the LCD |
| 16:38.08 | Lunessa | I think I've stolen a snippet or three of code form most everyone in here. |
| 16:38.27 | nevcairiel | shifuimam: its not that it looks similar, i have no idea how it looks, but their API is basically a 1:1 carbon copy |
| 16:38.33 | [Wobin] | shifuimam, what, like the start bar in Windows? =P |
| 16:38.43 | shifuimam | yeah, which is awesome, because it makes it really easy to get support on addon development |
| 16:38.49 | shifuimam | since the API and the lua are nearly identical |
| 16:39.13 | shifuimam | copying isn't necessarily a bad thing |
| 16:40.33 | [Wobin] | certainly, as long as you're honest about it |
| 16:40.56 | Thunder_Child | anyone know if the auth server is having issues? |
| 16:41.34 | Fisker | what auth server? |
| 16:41.38 | Thunder_Child | nvm then |
| 16:41.51 | Fisker | :( |
| 16:42.30 | Antiarc | I'm coming up blank. RoM = ? |
| 16:42.34 | Fisker | http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=13200618948&sid=1 <-hey there's an opening for trolls |
| 16:43.53 | Mikk | Runes of Magic |
| 16:44.50 | shifuimam | Antiarc: F2P/P4P MMO from taiwan |
| 16:44.57 | shifuimam | it's distributed in the EU and US by Frogster |
| 16:45.10 | Antiarc | Got it. |
| 16:47.28 | sylvanaar_atwork | krka: ok ill get the latest tonight after work |
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| 17:07.06 | Fisker | are the US PTR's running yet? |
| 17:07.57 | *** part/#wowuidev Movix1 (~Movix@mail.schiffmann.fr) |
| 17:13.34 | Lunessa | for 3.5? |
| 17:13.36 | *** join/#wowuidev PfhorSlayer (~dbarrie@174-31-245-27.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 17:13.41 | nevcairiel | 3.3.5 |
| 17:13.46 | nevcairiel | why do people get that mixed up all the time! |
| 17:13.48 | Lunessa | My bad. |
| 17:14.24 | Fisker | yeah go die in a ditch Lunessa |
| 17:14.28 | Fisker | for making a mistake |
| 17:14.50 | Lunessa | Fisker: If I had to die in a ditch for every mistake, the ditches would be full of my corpses. |
| 17:15.58 | Legorol | question: what do you do when you join a random heroic, and you notice that one of the dps is wearing gear that is half tank items. |
| 17:16.07 | Legorol | he's clearly got bad gear in the first place, but is lacking dps items in some slots |
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| 17:16.10 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tardmrr] by ChanServ |
| 17:16.32 | Lunessa | I STFU, finish the run, collect my emblems, say thanks, and leave. |
| 17:16.42 | Legorol | obviously he's trying to gear up, but he's wearing gear inappropriate for his role |
| 17:16.54 | Legorol | the problem with that lunessa is that the same standard can't be applied to the tank and/or the healer |
| 17:17.12 | Legorol | if a tank turned up with half dps gear, no def cap and overall blue/green quality, it'd be very very hard |
| 17:17.32 | Fisker | The other way around is not that bad |
| 17:17.36 | Lunessa | Legorol: I'm often one of those two roles or if I'm DPSing I can very nearly tank all the LK heroics as a shaman. |
| 17:17.50 | Legorol | but not in blue/green gear |
| 17:17.57 | Legorol | my problem is not with the *quality* of his gear, or his GS or his dps |
| 17:18.02 | Antiarc | It depends on whether he can pull his weight |
| 17:18.04 | Legorol | but that he is wearing items inappropriate for his role |
| 17:18.14 | Antiarc | If he can do acceptable DPS in all spirit gear, bring it on |
| 17:18.24 | Lunessa | Is he tanking? |
| 17:18.27 | Legorol | Antiarc: unlikely, people in wrong type of gear usually have that because they don't have good gear yet in the first place |
| 17:18.29 | Antiarc | I've seen too many mouthbreathers in full epics that struggle to break 1k DPS |
| 17:18.33 | Legorol | no lunessa, that's exactly the point |
| 17:18.38 | Legorol | he's dps-ing, with some tank items |
| 17:18.50 | Legorol | queued up as dps |
| 17:19.27 | Legorol | basically, didn't bother to do a minimum amount of prep for heroics and at least do a few quests in icecrown or something |
| 17:19.48 | Lunessa | Then let it slide. If you absolutely have to say something, keep it very very neutral, and mention that some of his stuff is better suited to tanking. Otherwise, you're just a busy-body pissing in his pool. |
| 17:20.14 | Legorol | but isn't that unfair? |
| 17:20.23 | Legorol | if someone turned up to tank or heal with the same attitude, they'd be yelled at |
| 17:20.27 | Fisker | Like i'd want to spend days in normals just to get the optimal gearset to replace instantly when i enter an heroic with little to no affect on my shitty dps |
| 17:20.34 | Legorol | why apply different standards to dps |
| 17:20.39 | Lunessa | For a guildmate or friend, I'd explain my thinking, but for a guy in a random that I'm unlikely to ever see again? |
| 17:20.42 | Legorol | fisker, i wasn't talking about optimal gearset |
| 17:20.47 | Legorol | i was talking about gear appropriate to the role |
| 17:20.54 | nevcairiel | Legorol: on most heroics, anyone can tank, doesnt matter if the tank is just blue/green/dps gear :p |
| 17:20.55 | Legorol | exactly lunessa |
| 17:20.57 | Fisker | That's what i meant when i said optimal |
| 17:20.59 | Legorol | i don't expect you to educate him |
| 17:21.02 | nevcairiel | also, on most heroics anyone can heal |
| 17:21.04 | Legorol | that's why i asked, what to do? |
| 17:21.13 | nevcairiel | just play |
| 17:21.16 | Lunessa | Legorol: The correct answer is "nothing." |
| 17:21.32 | Legorol | nevcairiel: i disagree, a blue/green tank in half dps gear can't tank a heroic |
| 17:21.37 | nevcairiel | sure he can |
| 17:21.43 | Fisker | I just leveled my mage and i had some mp5 healer gear in there, so either my option was to replace what was already good enough for DPS, or to just go heroics and get it replaced anyway |
| 17:21.48 | nevcairiel | a moonkin can tank a heroic |
| 17:22.23 | Legorol | fisker: mp5 gear is not inappropriate |
| 17:22.28 | nevcairiel | When i geared up my warrior, i never did any instance as anything else then a tank |
| 17:22.31 | Legorol | all the stats on the mp5 pieces are useful to you to some extent |
| 17:22.32 | nevcairiel | and i went there fast |
| 17:22.39 | nevcairiel | If you know how to play, gear doesnt matter |
| 17:22.44 | nevcairiel | not in heroics |
| 17:22.48 | Fisker | except the mp5 Legorol |
| 17:22.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide- (~cide@c213-100-51-33.swipnet.se) |
| 17:22.53 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
| 17:22.54 | Legorol | i disagree |
| 17:22.55 | foxlit | That's right. |
| 17:22.57 | Fisker | and it may have extra int which i don't need either |
| 17:23.00 | nevcairiel | unless you have like 20k hp :p |
| 17:23.05 | foxlit | Back in my day, we kited Anub'arak to Vael's room! |
| 17:23.06 | Legorol | at blue/green item level, your mana regen is so horrible, mp5 is somewhat useful |
| 17:23.16 | nevcairiel | but blue level plate already gets you to 28 unbuffed |
| 17:23.27 | Fisker | So how is this different? |
| 17:23.49 | Fisker | I don't use mana regen really, so it's useless to me |
| 17:23.54 | nevcairiel | I've had my share of badly geared tanks over the last weeks that we had LFD |
| 17:23.57 | Fisker | The dps/tank doesn't use dodge |
| 17:23.59 | nevcairiel | and it usually never was a problem |
| 17:24.01 | Fisker | it's still useful in some way |
| 17:24.04 | Fisker | He just won't use it |
| 17:24.13 | Fisker | neither would i use my mp5 for anything significant |
| 17:24.31 | Lunessa | Plate DPS means Paladin, DK or Warrior. As long as they can hit 2.5K - the heroic will go easily. If they fall below that number, you may have to work a little harder at it. |
| 17:24.31 | NightHawkTheSane | nevcairiel: i've healed a dk tank with 20k hp, buffed, through a heroic, that was fun :) |
| 17:24.39 | Fisker | AOE DPS = Clearcast |
| 17:24.44 | nevcairiel | Our tank DC'ed one day |
| 17:24.44 | Fisker | Bosses = drink afterwards |
| 17:24.48 | Fisker | mana regen needed: 0 |
| 17:24.54 | nevcairiel | and we did like 3 bosses until a replacement was found by LFD |
| 17:25.04 | nevcairiel | plate dps tanked |
| 17:25.40 | Legorol | nevcairiel: that's not the point |
| 17:25.44 | Legorol | of course plate dps in epic gear can tank |
| 17:26.00 | Legorol | do note that heroics are very easy nowadays *only* because of the very easy availability of high level gear |
| 17:26.16 | Legorol | so on average, every group overgears the place |
| 17:26.29 | Legorol | that's got nothing to do with what i'm talking about here |
| 17:26.37 | Antiarc | HoR is still a kick in the nuts if anyone in your group isn't geared or isn't competent |
| 17:26.43 | Legorol | i'm talking about someone who queues up for a role without having items for that role in many slots |
| 17:27.00 | Legorol | in other words, almost having empty slots |
| 17:27.05 | Legorol | and, more to the point: |
| 17:27.10 | Lunessa | All I'm saying is that unless he's a real drag on your group - a painful, hurtful drag - you really shouldn't say anything to him or get on his case about his gear ina random group. |
| 17:27.13 | Antiarc | Why does it matter what they're wearing? Isn't the bigger issue whether they can do their job or not? |
| 17:27.15 | Legorol | the different standard that gets applied to dps than to tank/healer on this point |
| 17:27.18 | Antiarc | If he can't do his job, kick him |
| 17:27.31 | Antiarc | If a tank can't do his job, kick him. If a healer can't, kick him. |
| 17:27.34 | Legorol | Antiarc: well, not exactly. look at it this way: |
| 17:27.42 | Antiarc | If the run isn't going to happen with that person in that slot, replace them |
| 17:27.47 | Legorol | that guy didn't put time into solo content outside heroic before coming in. |
| 17:27.53 | Legorol | the result: he does less dps, so your heroic takes longer |
| 17:27.54 | Antiarc | So? |
| 17:28.06 | Legorol | translation: his unwillingness to put in minimum preparation time results in *you* spending more time |
| 17:28.10 | Antiarc | It'll take maybe a minute or two longer. |
| 17:28.24 | Antiarc | And hell, I'm not gonna exhaust solo content on my alts before spamming heroics for badges. |
| 17:28.32 | Legorol | i didn't say exhaust solo content |
| 17:28.41 | Antiarc | I'll do my best to gear competently, but I'm not gonna put a ton of effort into it |
| 17:28.41 | Lunessa | Legorol: If it bothers you a lot, eat the debuff and bail. |
| 17:28.42 | Legorol | all i am talking about here is having an item appropriate for the role |
| 17:28.46 | Antiarc | (also tank gear often has a lot of strength on it) |
| 17:28.48 | Legorol | like paladin trying to dps in healing gear |
| 17:29.07 | Legorol | Lunessa: there are many other options i can exercise actually :) |
| 17:29.11 | Antiarc | My healers often wear gear with +hit on it ("DPS gear") because it's a better item for healing than the pure-healing variants that I have |
| 17:29.11 | Lunessa | Or, do what I do, and barrel through anyway. |
| 17:29.13 | Legorol | i'm just holding a discussion here |
| 17:29.16 | NightHawkTheSane | ... are the -three- minutes extr the run will take that important to you? |
| 17:29.23 | Legorol | Antiarc: and that is fine |
| 17:29.31 | Antiarc | But it's not role-appropriate |
| 17:29.52 | Legorol | sure it is, if it's an epic upgrade they chose because it was better than their blue/green/whatever |
| 17:30.13 | Antiarc | So what if a tanking item had more strength + a gem slot over the lower-ilevel DPS item they had before? |
| 17:30.35 | NightHawkTheSane | ^ has actually done that on some of his plate wearers, actually |
| 17:30.39 | Antiarc | I mean, my warrior wore a pair of blue tanking legs in his DPS set -forever- because they had a decent amount of strength and two red slots. |
| 17:30.46 | Legorol | Antiarc: it's extremely rare |
| 17:30.49 | NightHawkTheSane | same, on my dk |
| 17:30.56 | Legorol | even green questrewards on the way up to 80 surpass tank items |
| 17:31.06 | NightHawkTheSane | no.. not really |
| 17:31.39 | Antiarc | I've leveled a paladin, warrior, shaman, priest, and rogue to 80, and geared 4 of them through the badge system. I feel confident in saying that you're wrong :P |
| 17:31.43 | alestane | I know I've also been in the position, especially on my warrior, of having a piece of gear drop that was an upgrade for one role even though it was designed with another role in mind. Particularly when I'm wearing some green that dates back to Grizzly Hills or something. |
| 17:32.03 | NightHawkTheSane | some of the not-terribly-hard to acquire level 80 blue & epic tank items are easily better for dps than random dps items you'll come across while questing |
| 17:32.44 | alestane | That does become less of a factor as I spend more time doing heroics and replacing my gear with blues at least (it is hard to find a tank item that will beat a DPS blue). |
| 17:33.09 | Antiarc | Now, if you had a DK wearing spell power plate, yes, he's a tard, kick him |
| 17:33.25 | mikma | but |
| 17:33.32 | mikma | but, it boosts his death grip |
| 17:33.37 | NightHawkTheSane | Antiarc: if he was dps, i probably wouldn't even care :P |
| 17:33.41 | alestane | I don't think it does, no. |
| 17:33.53 | Antiarc | It depends on the group |
| 17:34.04 | NightHawkTheSane | in 5 mans, as long as the dps doesn't stand there with their thumbs up their asses, i dont really care. |
| 17:34.04 | Antiarc | 2 DPS doing 5k+ apiece can carry a DPS that averages 300 DPS the run |
| 17:34.11 | Antiarc | If everyone is doing <1000, it's kicky time. |
| 17:34.33 | Legorol | i think this topic got derailed, here is the main point: |
| 17:34.33 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah, maybe, but i dont think i've ever come across 3 dps that were ALL that bad :P |
| 17:34.40 | Legorol | that the standard applied is *different* for a tank/healer |
| 17:34.48 | Legorol | a dps virtually never gets kicked, just gets carried |
| 17:34.53 | Antiarc | Haha, what? |
| 17:34.55 | Legorol | a horrible tank/healer gets yelled at |
| 17:35.01 | Antiarc | DPS gets kicked so much more often because they're easier to replace |
| 17:35.02 | Legorol | that's my personal experience |
| 17:35.06 | Legorol | other people's experience might vary |
| 17:35.13 | NightHawkTheSane | oh, i'll kick dps easy |
| 17:35.29 | NightHawkTheSane | but not strictly for being bad. mostly for being idiots. |
| 17:35.32 | Antiarc | ^ |
| 17:35.35 | NightHawkTheSane | which, oddly, is FAR more common in dps classes |
| 17:35.37 | Legorol | i am yet to see a group that wants to kick a dps and doesn't just shrug and carry him/her |
| 17:36.08 | Antiarc | My experience has been that people are very hesitatnt to kick a tank because it's a 10+ minute wait for the next one. |
| 17:36.26 | Legorol | the worst one was a DK in blue/green, some of which were literally(!) pure +spi and +sta items |
| 17:36.31 | Legorol | as dps |
| 17:36.34 | Legorol | he was doing 600 dps |
| 17:36.45 | Legorol | when i mentioned this, the group said "why bother, just finish this" |
| 17:36.47 | Antiarc | I randomed with this guy a while back: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Echo+Isles&cn=Shootsumchit |
| 17:37.09 | NightHawkTheSane | Legorol: but, the simple reality of the situation is that there's a double standard because the roles are simply not equal. |
| 17:37.24 | Legorol | exactly |
| 17:37.44 | Legorol | but here's the catch: |
| 17:37.52 | alestane | I dunno, I got kicked from a H Halls run after we wiped on the last pull of the escape. Not a word of explanation. I never died (unlike the other two DPS), so I'm not sure what the reasoning was other than the fact that I was about 500 DPS behind the other two. |
| 17:37.53 | Antiarc | Oh hey, that hunter upgraded his defense/expertise ring |
| 17:38.00 | Legorol | the roles are all equally important, *but* tank/healer is about short-term success, dps is about long-term |
| 17:38.08 | Antiarc | what? |
| 17:38.10 | NightHawkTheSane | Legorol: no, they're not really equally important |
| 17:38.11 | Legorol | and by and large people have trouble spotting long-term failures |
| 17:38.24 | Legorol | whereas easy to spot short-term ones "tank died", "lost aggro" |
| 17:38.25 | Antiarc | The roles are only equally important then the instance demands it |
| 17:38.41 | Legorol | i disagree |
| 17:38.41 | Antiarc | That's because DPS requirements are so lax in most heroics. |
| 17:38.46 | NightHawkTheSane | ^ |
| 17:38.50 | Antiarc | Have you never done HHoR? |
| 17:38.51 | Antiarc | Seriously? |
| 17:39.02 | Legorol | just as a highly geared tank and/or healer trivialises the survival aspect, similarly highly geared dps cuts down on the time it takes to complete the instance |
| 17:39.03 | Antiarc | Bad DPS = failure on the first boss and the escape. |
| 17:39.05 | Legorol | both of which are desiarble |
| 17:39.12 | NightHawkTheSane | Antiarc: man, that's an instance where the tank is almost useless :P |
| 17:39.25 | Antiarc | NightHawkTheSane: I highly disagree, a skilled tank makes that instance far smoother. |
| 17:39.33 | Antiarc | It's an instance that requires everyone to play well. |
| 17:39.47 | Legorol | here is the thing: overgeard tank/healer makes *survival* easier, overgeared dps cuts down on time |
| 17:39.50 | Antiarc | Tank, DPS, and healer all have to do well, or it becomes agonizingly difficul |
| 17:39.51 | Legorol | and this is where the disparity comes in |
| 17:39.53 | Antiarc | difficult |
| 17:39.53 | NightHawkTheSane | Antiarc: well, yeah, i was mostly being hyperbolic. But on-the-ball dps will have much more of an impact than the tank, i think |
| 17:39.59 | Legorol | people value easy survival lot moer than they value their time |
| 17:40.01 | Fisker | bitchducked Antiarc |
| 17:40.06 | Legorol | even though both are core aspects of grouping |
| 17:40.24 | Antiarc | survival translates to saving big chunks of time? |
| 17:40.31 | Legorol | exactly |
| 17:40.35 | Antiarc | Wiping is the biggest possibile timesink |
| 17:40.41 | Antiarc | Small timesinks are acceptable, generally |
| 17:40.51 | Legorol | so it's interesting that people value short-term time gain (survival) so much more than long-term (fast clearing with high dps) |
| 17:40.52 | Antiarc | I mean, hell, dude, if you want to assemble your perfect 5-man group, hop to it |
| 17:40.55 | NightHawkTheSane | Legorol: thing is, the nature of heroics (multiple short fights) mean tehre's a very real cap on how fast high dps can make the fight |
| 17:40.59 | Legorol | the overall time of an instance noticably differs depending on the gear level of dps |
| 17:41.01 | NightHawkTheSane | er s/fight/instance/ |
| 17:41.07 | Legorol | NightHawkTheSane: i disagree |
| 17:41.17 | Antiarc | Legorol: And yet, that time difference is still going to be less than the dungeon debuff timer |
| 17:41.24 | Legorol | with a good tank that's chainpulling and/or pulling multiple groups, so that the dps can maximise their output, makes it faster with good dps |
| 17:41.29 | Antiarc | A fast tank is the #1 cause of a fast instance |
| 17:41.31 | NightHawkTheSane | Legorol: "with a good tank" |
| 17:41.37 | Legorol | exactly |
| 17:41.42 | Antiarc | Likewise, that requires a healer that can keep up |
| 17:41.47 | Legorol | so consider this: |
| 17:41.50 | NightHawkTheSane | thus, we're back to the fact that the tank is ultimately more important than the dps |
| 17:41.59 | Legorol | good tank + bad dps: the tanks' ability to avoid capping the dps is being wasted |
| 17:42.02 | Legorol | he can't make the run faster |
| 17:42.06 | Antiarc | Let's play a game: |
| 17:42.14 | Legorol | NightHawkTheSane: no, look at it this way |
| 17:42.17 | nevcairiel | you're still arguing? |
| 17:42.18 | nevcairiel | man |
| 17:42.18 | Antiarc | One of the five people in the group goes AFK to bathe their dog. Kicking is not an option. |
| 17:42.20 | Legorol | bad tank + good dps: tank caps things |
| 17:42.25 | Antiarc | If it's a tank, do you go on? No. |
| 17:42.26 | Legorol | good tank + bad dps: things are still slow |
| 17:42.29 | Antiarc | If it's a healer, do you go on? No. |
| 17:42.30 | Legorol | good tank + good dps: fast clear |
| 17:42.32 | Antiarc | If it's a DPS, do you go on? Yup! |
| 17:42.46 | Legorol | sure Antiarc |
| 17:42.53 | Legorol | because, again, tank/heal is short-term gain, dps is long-term |
| 17:43.02 | nevcairiel | All i define a tank with is his pull speed |
| 17:43.04 | Legorol | that doesn't mean that dps has nothing to contribute |
| 17:43.05 | nevcairiel | not his gear |
| 17:43.06 | Antiarc | I don't know what you're on about, but this is a dumb discussion |
| 17:43.09 | nevcairiel | if he pulls fast, he is a good tank |
| 17:43.15 | Legorol | ok, Antiarc, extreme case: |
| 17:43.15 | nevcairiel | I can heal any tank through a heroic |
| 17:43.21 | Legorol | would you be willing to run every heroic with 4 people instead? |
| 17:43.25 | NightHawkTheSane | Legorol: you're looking at it as a black/white, but the gains from "good" dps diminish quickly |
| 17:43.28 | Legorol | it's clearly going to take longer, every time, all the time |
| 17:43.36 | Antiarc | Sure, with the exception of HoR. |
| 17:43.41 | Antiarc | I'm still going to clear it before the debuff is up. |
| 17:43.42 | Legorol | now what about 3? |
| 17:43.45 | NightHawkTheSane | (most of the time, that is) |
| 17:43.50 | Legorol | you see what i did there? |
| 17:43.50 | nevcairiel | HoR is an extreme case, and with blue gear they dont even send you in there |
| 17:43.53 | Antiarc | Why are you marginalizing? |
| 17:43.53 | nevcairiel | so thats fine |
| 17:44.09 | Antiarc | I drop groups that aren't going to clear in a timely fashion |
| 17:44.15 | Legorol | i'm trying to illustrate that dps is important for long-term success, which i define by how many heroics i can do in given unit of time |
| 17:44.15 | NightHawkTheSane | nevcairiel: they wont let you in even in mostly ilvl 200 epics, so yeah :P |
| 17:44.19 | Antiarc | It's better return on my time to drop the group and requeue. |
| 17:44.25 | Legorol | there you go! |
| 17:44.28 | Legorol | so time does matter |
| 17:44.40 | Antiarc | Of course it matters. But micromanaging seconds doesn't. |
| 17:44.44 | Legorol | and the role out of the three that affects time most is dps imo |
| 17:44.45 | nevcairiel | a DPS in 50% tank gear will still do good dps |
| 17:44.53 | nevcairiel | hell, my warrior in tank gear out-dps'es soem DPS players |
| 17:44.53 | Legorol | nevcairiel: not when it's 600 dps |
| 17:44.58 | Antiarc | If this group is going to take 45 minutes to clear this heroic, I'm going to drop and do 3 with other groups in the same time. |
| 17:45.01 | NightHawkTheSane | the tank & healer affect the duration of a heroic FAR more than the dps. |
| 17:45.22 | Antiarc | You're wrong about DPS affecting that speed. It's all about the tank's speed. Tank DPS is quite decent ;) |
| 17:45.25 | Lunessa | As a DPS player, I spend a lot of time waiting for a run. |
| 17:45.28 | nevcairiel | Legorol: then he sucks in general, not his gear |
| 17:45.44 | Legorol | Antiarc: you are missing half the equation |
| 17:45.50 | Legorol | fast tank + bad dps is still a slow clear |
| 17:45.52 | Antiarc | And you're missing the entire point |
| 17:45.54 | Antiarc | No it's not |
| 17:45.55 | nevcairiel | besides, i have enver actually looked at absolute numbers in heroics |
| 17:45.57 | Legorol | the only way to get fast clear is to have fast tank *and* fast dps |
| 17:45.57 | Antiarc | It's a slowER clear |
| 17:45.58 | nevcairiel | just relatives |
| 17:46.07 | krka | sylvanaar_atwork: cool |
| 17:46.08 | Fisker | nevcairiel is awesome |
| 17:46.09 | Antiarc | Which is still going not going to be appreciably slower |
| 17:46.09 | Legorol | you get slow clear if tank caps things |
| 17:46.16 | Legorol | you also get slow clear if tank is fast, but the dps is slacking |
| 17:46.27 | nevcairiel | Tanks don't depend on gear to be "fast" |
| 17:46.34 | Legorol | sure |
| 17:46.43 | Legorol | nevcairiel: i mean, sure they do |
| 17:46.45 | nevcairiel | neither do DPS really, have them move fast to the next group, and do dps earlier |
| 17:46.50 | Legorol | without good enough gear to pull 2/3 groups, they can't go as fast |
| 17:47.03 | Antiarc | You can pull half of any given instance in 232s :P |
| 17:47.03 | Legorol | both roles (tank/dps) can benefit from both gear and from skill |
| 17:47.10 | Legorol | Antiarc: 232 is good gear |
| 17:47.12 | nevcairiel | most dungeons arent designed to pull 2-3 groups |
| 17:47.17 | Antiarc | 232 is welfare gear |
| 17:47.19 | nevcairiel | too long distances |
| 17:47.22 | Antiarc | 264+ is good gear :P |
| 17:47.24 | Legorol | nevcairiel: my tank toons beg to differ :P |
| 17:48.05 | Legorol | Antiarc: blue/green is bad gear, any combination of epics is acceptable, 232 is good (because it's almost the max you can get outside raiding) |
| 17:48.09 | Legorol | 264+ is excellent |
| 17:48.10 | nevcairiel | I know every instance by heart, and you really can't pull that many groups together, unless you call those "groups" that contain 2 mobs |
| 17:48.21 | Antiarc | Legorol: brb crafting epic frost resist |
| 17:48.28 | cbreak | you can get 251 from heroics |
| 17:48.29 | Legorol | well, the way i do heroics is that i pretty much never stop moving |
| 17:48.32 | Antiarc | Legorol: Also, you're dumb, heroics drop ilevel 200 gear |
| 17:48.33 | cbreak | (daily heroic grinding) |
| 17:48.40 | Antiarc | Thus they are tuned for ~175-200 gear |
| 17:48.40 | Legorol | and you can cover the distance between most groups before the first one dies |
| 17:48.53 | Antiarc | If you require 200+ epics to do heroics you're being obtuse to the extreme |
| 17:48.55 | Legorol | Antiarc: sure, any epic gear overgears it |
| 17:48.57 | nevcairiel | we rushed through heroics in ilvl 140+ epics |
| 17:49.03 | Legorol | Antiarc: what? |
| 17:49.06 | Legorol | when did i say that? |
| 17:49.07 | nevcairiel | mixed with some 180-200 blues |
| 17:49.09 | Legorol | i guess you missed the start |
| 17:49.09 | Antiarc | So you're saying that people should overgear heroics before they do heroics. Okay. |
| 17:49.13 | nevcairiel | so shush |
| 17:49.14 | Legorol | uhm.. no |
| 17:49.15 | Antiarc | "blue/green is bad gear" |
| 17:49.15 | Lunessa | Antiarc: You'd laugh at my gear then |
| 17:49.24 | Antiarc | Heroics are tuned to be done in blues! |
| 17:49.26 | Legorol | Antiarc: i never said you can't do heroics in bad gear |
| 17:49.34 | Legorol | but they are bad gear, they are the worst availalbe |
| 17:49.36 | Antiarc | That's been the whole point of your little rant here. |
| 17:49.41 | Legorol | lol, no |
| 17:49.43 | Legorol | that wasn't |
| 17:49.45 | Antiarc | Part of the random system is that you get people in bad gear sometimes |
| 17:49.47 | nevcairiel | Worst gear is i lvl 1 |
| 17:49.52 | Legorol | Antiarc: i think you missed the start |
| 17:49.52 | nevcairiel | not 180-200 blues |
| 17:50.01 | Antiarc | nevcairiel: Not true! Heirloom gear is ilevel 1! :P |
| 17:50.02 | Legorol | i didn't complain about someone's *quality* of gear, or their GS or skill |
| 17:50.11 | nevcairiel | Antiarc: and its really bad :D |
| 17:50.13 | Legorol | i complained about people joining the instance in gear that is not for their role |
| 17:50.18 | Antiarc | Legorol: You're complaining that they're wearing role-inapproriate gear |
| 17:50.19 | Legorol | like paladin dps in healing gear |
| 17:50.21 | Legorol | or dk dps in tank gear |
| 17:50.21 | Antiarc | Which is a retarded argument |
| 17:50.27 | Antiarc | Because it's about throughput, not the gear they wear |
| 17:50.29 | Legorol | well, that's worse than bad gear |
| 17:50.39 | Legorol | sure, that's true antiarc |
| 17:50.41 | Antiarc | Whatever, you're spinning in circles now. |
| 17:50.44 | olafski | tank gear still has a lot of stats for dps |
| 17:50.51 | nevcairiel | I said before, dps can do decent dps in tank gear |
| 17:50.58 | nevcairiel | if they don't, they suck, not their gear |
| 17:50.59 | Lunessa | http://elitistarmory.com/US/Kirin%20Tor/Unkle - not awesome, but I get the job done. |
| 17:51.00 | Dagmar | If your paladin isn't tanking it's not like there's +heal gear anymore |
| 17:51.01 | Legorol | but given that i don't expect someone's skill to suddenly and rapidly improve, their dps is obviously higher with role-appropriate gear |
| 17:51.15 | Dagmar | It would help if your argument wasn't dim |
| 17:51.15 | Legorol | Dagmar: lol what? |
| 17:51.19 | Legorol | spell power plate |
| 17:51.41 | Legorol | i have seen ret paladins wearing 12+ items of spell power plate |
| 17:51.48 | Dagmar | YOU ARE DOING HEROICS -- NOT RAIDS |
| 17:51.51 | olafski | their dps would also been higher if he had epic gear instead of blue |
| 17:51.55 | Dagmar | It doesn't require freaking BiS to do a heroic |
| 17:52.00 | olafski | is this really worth 30 minutes of arguing? |
| 17:52.01 | Dagmar | Mainly it requires they not be naked |
| 17:52.04 | cbreak | ret paladins used to need spell power |
| 17:52.05 | Legorol | again, i never said anything about bis |
| 17:52.17 | Legorol | i am happy with blue/green gear if it's role appropriate |
| 17:52.18 | olafski | your heroic probably took less than 15 minutes |
| 17:52.22 | olafski | whether he wore tank gear or not |
| 17:52.29 | Dagmar | If you have a problem with them wearing their best gear while they build another set for a role they want to fill in dual-spec take your whining to your guild |
| 17:52.29 | Lunessa | Seriously, I need better weapons - but I don't think there's many options to choose from. |
| 17:53.08 | Dagmar | Bullshit |
| 17:53.10 | Legorol | dagmar: but then they might as well come in half-naked |
| 17:53.18 | Legorol | is that acceptable? |
| 17:53.22 | Legorol | basically, where do you draw the line? |
| 17:53.24 | Dagmar | If you're whining baout "role-appropriate" gear you'll whine about someone being in blues/greens as wel |
| 17:53.32 | Lunessa | ... Naked Heroics. Can I choose a tank, a healer and 2 supermodels? |
| 17:53.35 | Legorol | i am suggesting that the most sensible line to draw for heroics is blue/green role appropriate gear |
| 17:53.53 | Legorol | dagmar: no, because i'm a hyptothetical theorising principled idiot :) |
| 17:53.54 | Dagmar | You've lost your mind |
| 17:53.56 | nevcairiel | we have a feral in the guild that constantly queues as tank and then "tanks" as cat |
| 17:54.00 | Legorol | yes i did |
| 17:54.01 | nevcairiel | thats kinda fun to watch |
| 17:54.07 | Dagmar | It's goddamn hard enough to get tank gear when you're not a tank |
| 17:54.22 | Legorol | nevcairiel: moot point, ferals have many reasons why they can tank just fine in cat gear |
| 17:54.24 | Legorol | especially epic one |
| 17:54.30 | olafski | legorol: he tanks _as cat_ |
| 17:54.30 | Dagmar | If someone's doing the job, wearing the gear they have, you shoud get a freaking grip on yourself |
| 17:54.32 | olafski | not in cat gear |
| 17:54.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide| (~cide@c213-100-51-33.swipnet.se) |
| 17:55.03 | nevcairiel | indeed, as cat, not cat gear |
| 17:55.05 | nevcairiel | well cat gear too |
| 17:55.08 | Legorol | Dagmar: imo, they are not doing their job if they come waltzing in without a minimum amount of prep, which to me means actually wearing some gear |
| 17:55.11 | nevcairiel | but the point was cat :P |
| 17:55.13 | Dagmar | Bullshit |
| 17:55.13 | cbreak | cat girl! |
| 17:55.17 | Legorol | this is why i asked you if a half-naked toon would be appropriate |
| 17:55.26 | Dagmar | You seem to think it would be |
| 17:55.29 | NightHawkTheSane | nevcairiel: swipe spam ftw? |
| 17:55.31 | Legorol | huh? |
| 17:55.34 | Dagmar | People hit 80 generally with ONE set of gear |
| 17:55.36 | Legorol | i'm arguing the exact opposite |
| 17:55.42 | cbreak | moee attack! |
| 17:55.42 | Legorol | yes they do |
| 17:55.45 | Dagmar | It's the "all around best" they can get their hands on |
| 17:55.50 | Legorol | that's not true |
| 17:56.01 | Legorol | people join heroics in full tank gear too sometimes, as dps role |
| 17:56.05 | Dagmar | It's quite common to have to make do with two halves of two sets for a WHILE |
| 17:56.10 | Legorol | that is clearly not an "all around best" they can get their hands on |
| 17:56.19 | Dagmar | Legorol: Holy crap they must be pissing on the skull of baby jesus doing that |
| 17:56.30 | nevcairiel | I could probably heal any instance half-naked |
| 17:56.32 | olafski | just be glad he didn't queue as tank with that gear |
| 17:56.39 | mikma | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:56.42 | Dagmar | ...or it could be that they're just looking to build a DPS set an people get pissy when you roll on off-set pieces |
| 17:56.45 | NightHawkTheSane | this is a lot of discussion for something that takes no more than 20minutes of anyone's life |
| 17:56.45 | Legorol | olafski: that's an interesting thought right there. why not? |
| 17:56.58 | olafski | you already explained why not |
| 17:57.01 | Legorol | NightHawkTheSane: then don't discuss ;) |
| 17:57.01 | cbreak | it's entirely possible to do heroics with two tanks and two healers |
| 17:57.05 | mikma | http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l1whkpWIU21qb25dg.jpg |
| 17:57.11 | cbreak | I've done it |
| 17:57.17 | *** join/#wowuidev kraftman (~kraft_@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust764.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 17:57.28 | Legorol | cbreak: sure and it's entirely possible to do with just 4 people |
| 17:57.32 | Legorol | does it make it any less annoying? |
| 17:57.36 | cbreak | depends |
| 17:57.39 | Dagmar | Heck I've done a number of them with three |
| 17:57.44 | cbreak | if the alternative is that idiot tank I've seen yesterday |
| 17:57.47 | cbreak | yes, it's less anoying |
| 17:57.51 | mikma | http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l0z6nmNGHz1qb25dg.jpg |
| 17:58.02 | Dagmar | Now, if a paladin shows up in elemental shaman gear, THAT you should bitch about |
| 17:58.06 | Lunessa | in a battleground, do you tell people "bad pvp spec, bro" ? |
| 17:58.18 | nevcairiel | some do |
| 17:58.18 | Legorol | Dagmar: as i said, i have grouped with a ret paladin before wearing full healing gear |
| 17:58.24 | nevcairiel | they constantly flame me for pve gear and spec |
| 17:58.24 | nevcairiel | :D |
| 17:58.27 | Dagmar | Legorol: He probably did just fine |
| 17:58.29 | mikma | ahahahaha, http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l20epdB8Nz1qb25dg.jpg |
| 17:58.33 | olafski | nevcairiel: and for your tactics too probably |
| 17:58.35 | Legorol | Dagmar: obviously he did not |
| 17:58.37 | mikma | wobwork: :DDDD ^---- |
| 17:58.42 | Legorol | there is nothing on healing gear that contributes to his dps |
| 17:58.44 | Antiarc | Dagmar: ...except that ele shaman gear is pretty good healing gear? :P |
| 17:58.47 | Dagmar | Legorol: No, either he sucks at playing, or you whine too much |
| 17:58.53 | Legorol | since ret pala damage scales with AP and str |
| 17:58.57 | Dagmar | Antiarc: ...and if they queued as DPS? |
| 17:59.04 | nevcairiel | olafski: i actually know what i do, i just dont have gear or a dual spec free for pvp |
| 17:59.04 | Dagmar | ...or god forbid, tanking? |
| 17:59.24 | olafski | nevcairiel: there's always someone who knows better in a BG I've found |
| 17:59.27 | Antiarc | If they're trying to DPS in that gear, sure, kick them to the curb, because their output will stink! |
| 17:59.38 | Dagmar | Legorol: If you guys made it through, he did fine |
| 17:59.44 | Antiarc | (if it doesn't stink, perhaps they know something, and should be asked polite questions of) |
| 17:59.47 | Legorol | dagmar: that is very wrong logic |
| 17:59.52 | Legorol | as i said, you can make it through with 4 |
| 17:59.54 | Dagmar | Why? |
| 17:59.56 | Legorol | does that make it fine? no |
| 18:00.06 | Legorol | heck, you can make it through with just 3 |
| 18:00.07 | Dagmar | At the end of the run, what matters is who is dead and who isn't and who has the loot and who doesn't |
| 18:00.08 | Legorol | but that's not fine |
| 18:00.15 | Legorol | i stronlgy disagree |
| 18:00.16 | Dagmar | Everything else in between is elitist bullshit |
| 18:00.24 | Dagmar | If you can't hack it, stick with running heroics only with your guild |
| 18:00.29 | Legorol | lol |
| 18:00.37 | Antiarc | Legorol: You need to assemble your perfect 5-man heroics team and avoid the LFD tool, because you're going to be perpetually pissed off. |
| 18:00.38 | Dagmar | Perhaps they can handle your inability to deal with duress |
| 18:00.39 | Legorol | dagmar, you seem to think that time has no value |
| 18:00.46 | Legorol | Antiarc: very wrong |
| 18:00.52 | Dagmar | Legorol: Your time is no more valuable than theirs |
| 18:00.52 | Legorol | i'm very patient and friendly in every heroic |
| 18:00.58 | Legorol | *except* when someone joins in role-inappropriate gear |
| 18:01.03 | olafski | if it was you wouldn't be playing this game :P |
| 18:01.08 | Dagmar | ...and it's clear you have very few, if any, multi-spec 80's |
| 18:01.14 | Legorol | uh what? |
| 18:01.17 | Legorol | where did you get that idea from? |
| 18:01.18 | Dagmar | Otherwise you'd damn well know why these people are wearing the "wrong" egar |
| 18:01.30 | NightHawkTheSane | Legorol: you notice i stopped like 20m ago, yeah? :P (which has nothing to do with an impromptu meeting here at work :P) |
| 18:01.32 | Legorol | i never said i don't know *why* they are doing it |
| 18:01.36 | Legorol | all i said is that it annoys me |
| 18:01.41 | Dagmar | The only place I'm going to give a damn is if someone shows up to tank in full healing gear. That gear better be extremely purple. |
| 18:01.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Stew-a (~Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 18:01.50 | Legorol | i can understand why something is done and still be annoyed by it |
| 18:01.53 | Dagmar | Beyond that, I don't suck, and if they don't suck, we can surely kill off heroics |
| 18:02.07 | Legorol | dagmar, again, you seem to measure success as binary |
| 18:02.10 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: i've done that before, but usually about 10s later i hit my 'switch spec' button :P |
| 18:02.12 | Legorol | as if time had no meaning |
| 18:02.28 | Dagmar | You're the one who wants to gripe about everyone's gear in a heroic if it's not _perfect_ |
| 18:02.35 | olafski | if your time is so special why are you playing a timesink like wow? :s |
| 18:02.40 | Legorol | dagmar: you exaggerate everything i say |
| 18:02.44 | Legorol | and you are not reading what i type |
| 18:02.48 | Dagmar | Don't use LFD if you can't stand imperfection. it's as simple as that. |
| 18:02.48 | NightHawkTheSane | olafski: heroics are srs bsns. |
| 18:02.53 | Legorol | olafski: you are exaggerating too |
| 18:03.02 | Legorol | my time is not special. yet i care about it to some extent |
| 18:03.15 | Legorol | dagmar: obviously i do have that choice, but that is worse choice ;) |
| 18:03.19 | Legorol | there are other solutions too |
| 18:03.20 | Dagmar | Clearly you think every second of it is precious |
| 18:03.28 | Legorol | no i do not, and i never said i do |
| 18:03.37 | Dagmar | Far too precious to waste on people doing anything more than the max DPS possible |
| 18:03.37 | Legorol | dagmar, you love to put words into my mouth, don't you |
| 18:03.46 | Legorol | again, where/when did i say that |
| 18:03.50 | Dagmar | Scroll up. |
| 18:03.51 | olafski | how was I axaggerating? you know what to expect in the LFD tool, but you go there anyway and then complain afterwards =( |
| 18:03.54 | Legorol | dagmar: quote me |
| 18:03.59 | Dagmar | "less qq more pew pew" |
| 18:04.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Stew_a (~Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 18:04.11 | Legorol | i said i put a *minimum* line, i never said anything about requiring everyone to be at or anywhere near a maximum |
| 18:04.14 | NightHawkTheSane | Legorol: this isn't meant to be rude, but you're the kind of person who inspects random people and cries when they're spec is kind of idiotic, aren't you? :P |
| 18:04.18 | olafski | and really, if time is that important you shouldn't be discussing this for so long, just queue again |
| 18:04.19 | mikma | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W_szJ6M-kM |
| 18:04.26 | Legorol | NightHawkTheSane: you are putting words into my mouth |
| 18:04.31 | Legorol | i'm very pro "any spec" guy |
| 18:04.33 | NightHawkTheSane | Legorol: no, i'm asking a question :) |
| 18:04.44 | Dagmar | Legorol: You yourself cited two examples of someone in a completely wrong set of gear right from the start |
| 18:04.46 | Legorol | no i'm not |
| 18:04.48 | Dagmar | We don't have to exaggerate anything |
| 18:04.54 | Legorol | i'm all for playing the game in whatever spec people want to play in |
| 18:05.00 | Legorol | Dagmar: yes i did |
| 18:05.09 | Legorol | but having completely wrong gear is nowhere near having perfect gear |
| 18:05.15 | Legorol | there is a loooot of space inbetween |
| 18:05.20 | Legorol | i never put the line near perfect geaer |
| 18:05.20 | shifuimam | are any of you guys wordpress ninjas, by any chance? |
| 18:05.20 | Dagmar | But it's clearly enough for you to have a big problem with it |
| 18:05.30 | Legorol | in fact i have repeatedly stressed that i am fine with blue/green gear |
| 18:05.36 | Dagmar | shifuimam: I think wordpress would have to run faster for ninjas to be able to deal with it |
| 18:05.38 | Legorol | yes, i do have big problem with role-inappropriate gear |
| 18:05.43 | Legorol | but i do not have problem with low-quality gear |
| 18:05.44 | NightHawkTheSane | Legorol: i only ask because your attitude seems to be like "anything sub-optimal is bad and should be punished" i kind of did the same thing with specs in the past, before i decided I didn't care enough |
| 18:05.51 | Lunessa | wordpress is the devil's work. |
| 18:05.54 | alestane | Legorol spent about half an hour talking to me about my 5/51/15 warrior tank spec and how best to make it work. |
| 18:06.05 | Legorol | NightHawkTheSane: that's not true though. i am not asking for anywhere near optimality |
| 18:06.07 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: no, the devil wouldn't touch wordpress, it's way to evil |
| 18:06.10 | Legorol | i didn't put a high line, i put a low line |
| 18:06.13 | Legorol | just a very specific one |
| 18:06.28 | Legorol | in fact, if anything, i'm not being optimal |
| 18:06.30 | Lunessa | NightHawkTheSane: You may have a point. |
| 18:07.03 | Legorol | by insisting on role-appropriate gear, i may inadvertently force a green L72 role-appropriate dps item instead of an L78 tank item |
| 18:07.30 | Legorol | this whole conversation started with one very simple question: what do people think about role-inappropriate gear, and what do they do about it |
| 18:07.35 | Legorol | antiarc gave the best response |
| 18:07.39 | Dagmar | We ignore it |
| 18:07.47 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR (~DWSR@unaffiliated/dwsr) |
| 18:08.09 | Legorol | mm, time to run some heroics :) |
| 18:08.22 | olafski | careful you might lose time |
| 18:09.05 | Legorol | hehe |
| 18:10.00 | mikma | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E6q-m1tLn8 |
| 18:10.07 | cbreak | I am already bored of WotLK |
| 18:10.09 | zenzelezz | so I'm leveling a mage now to see things again before Cataclysm... and I'm reading quest texts for the first time. Embarrassed how much I've missed from just reading objectives |
| 18:10.13 | cbreak | I want to see cataclysm |
| 18:10.18 | cbreak | maybe my guild wakes up then |
| 18:10.19 | olafski | already? ;) |
| 18:10.31 | cbreak | is easily bored |
| 18:10.48 | olafski | no I meant, I got the feeling many people were bored with it months ago |
| 18:11.01 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 18:11.02 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 18:11.08 | Odlaw | doin the same thing zenzelezz.. and a guildy is doing the same |
| 18:11.21 | olafski | I've been playing for 1.5 years, got nearly all classes to 80 (some of them twice).. finally cancelled my account last week :) |
| 18:11.29 | Lunessa | There's a lot of story to be learned from quests. |
| 18:11.36 | olafski | I'll probably reactivate when cataclysm comes |
| 18:13.47 | DWSR | The problem is that Vanilla brought /so/ much content. |
| 18:13.55 | cbreak | I've been playing since 5 years |
| 18:13.56 | DWSR | And the expansions just haven't provided nearly the same amount. |
| 18:14.03 | DWSR | cbreak: s/since/for/ |
| 18:14.22 | cbreak | I have one character to 80, but she has too much /played |
| 18:14.35 | DWSR | Have you leveled a death knight to 80 yet? |
| 18:14.39 | NightHawkTheSane | Awesome Fun: friend tells me he made a particle generatator in flash, and challenges me to do the same in js/html5. a 30s google search later and I link him 4 different ones. WOO! |
| 18:15.01 | DWSR | NHTS: I think you missed the point of the challenge. |
| 18:15.13 | zenzelezz | I have one 80, with I think 270ish played... had a couple of alts, but none that I spent more time on than it took to level them |
| 18:15.29 | Mihau | Vanilla Ice did not bring that much content! D: |
| 18:15.52 | cbreak | NightHawkTheSane: do it with WebGL canavas |
| 18:16.44 | DWSR | I think leveling a Death Knight by questing was some of the bset fun that I've had in WoW. |
| 18:17.17 | DWSR | Everything else pales by comparison, and vanilla leveling is so fragmented and slow with the advent of heirlooms that I just can't do it. |
| 18:18.01 | NightHawkTheSane | DWSR: no, i didn't. we've been going back and forth on how flash really doesn't do anything terrible unique anymore. |
| 18:18.37 | DWSR | NHTS: It doesn't. |
| 18:18.47 | NightHawkTheSane | DWSR: i know, that's my point :P |
| 18:19.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (~Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 18:19.50 | DWSR | http://www.aintitcool.com/node/44943 <-- On a side note. |
| 18:27.12 | *** join/#wowuidev cbreak (~cbreak@77-57-185-214.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 18:28.27 | *** join/#wowuidev freite (~freite@c83-250-31-85.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 18:29.55 | mikma | http://svip.theinfosphere.org/countdown/ |
| 18:32.02 | Fisker | hugefart mikma |
| 18:32.31 | mikma | i need a "GOOD NEWS EVERYONE!" as my textmessage sound |
| 18:37.36 | cbreak | Starcraft II lacks Vertical Sync. |
| 18:39.37 | Fisker | vertical outrage |
| 18:41.37 | mikma | teh lols |
| 18:43.57 | Ackis | is amused by tekkub's latest tweet. |
| 18:44.19 | tekkub | I've seen worse porn titles, sadly |
| 18:48.30 | Fisker | hey Ackis |
| 18:48.38 | Fisker | i hate twitter |
| 18:48.38 | Ackis | Fisker |
| 18:48.40 | Fisker | and facebook |
| 18:48.45 | Ackis | cool |
| 18:48.48 | Fisker | and macs |
| 18:52.23 | *** join/#wowuidev nocdare (~karol@host81-141-28-2.wlms-broadband.com) |
| 18:52.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphon (~gryphon@c-71-227-239-71.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 18:54.46 | Fisker | what about you Ackis ? |
| 18:54.59 | A-KO^ | Fisker: it's all to make people feel important :P |
| 18:55.11 | A-KO^ | "look at me I'm popular!" |
| 18:55.43 | Ackis | the stuff I read at work |
| 18:55.59 | Ackis | "Even though a single healthy sperm could not be found, Karl was able to have testicular sperm extraction (TESE), which involves passing a needle into the testis to remove a piece of tissue, from which developing sperm were taken." |
| 18:56.06 | Ackis | never did I think I'd read bout a needle to the sack today |
| 18:56.53 | nevcairiel | And you couldnt help yourself, and share it with us? |
| 18:57.43 | Ackis | I figured Fisker would be interested |
| 18:59.39 | Fisker | you were wrong |
| 19:00.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Borgleader (~borgleade@modemcable253.146-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 19:14.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Zyonin (~Zyonin@93.51.101.129) |
| 19:14.08 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Zyonin] by ChanServ |
| 19:14.35 | *** join/#wowuidev isman (~drag@mlr78-3-88-162-68-235.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 19:17.33 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 19:19.35 | Fisker | feeds Ackis broccoli |
| 19:20.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Zyonin_ (~Zyonin@93-38-79-252.ip69.fastwebnet.it) |
| 19:22.10 | jnwhiteh | my friend is doing RAF with me |
| 19:22.12 | jnwhiteh | but |
| 19:22.14 | jnwhiteh | he doesn't pkay as much as I'd like him to |
| 19:22.16 | jnwhiteh | so I have to stop myself from playing so I dont get too far ahead =/ |
| 19:22.19 | jnwhiteh | Im' enjoying my warrior as prot this time |
| 19:22.25 | olafski | :D |
| 19:22.27 | olafski | prot is fun innit |
| 19:22.30 | olafski | what level are you now? |
| 19:22.30 | jnwhiteh | yeah |
| 19:22.32 | jnwhiteh | 22 |
| 19:22.58 | Fisker | why do you have to stop yourself? :( |
| 19:23.06 | jnwhiteh | cause if I'm 30 |
| 19:23.07 | jnwhiteh | and he's 20 |
| 19:23.14 | jnwhiteh | then I have to run instances with him where he's low, or I'm high |
| 19:23.34 | alestane | The thing I love about tanking is that I don't really need meters to know if I'm doing my job well. |
| 19:23.34 | alestane | If I'm not doing my job, MY FRIENDS ARE DEAD. |
| 19:23.34 | alestane | That simple. |
| 19:23.52 | olafski | jnwhiteh: also neither of you will get the 300% xp bonus then |
| 19:23.54 | jnwhiteh | well iv'e always loved tanking and healing for that very reason |
| 19:23.57 | jnwhiteh | indeed |
| 19:24.08 | nevcairiel | DPS is also boring |
| 19:24.16 | nevcairiel | yay rotation *faceroll* |
| 19:25.43 | jnwhiteh | I need to get better at using charge |
| 19:25.45 | jnwhiteh | maybe a macro |
| 19:25.49 | jnwhiteh | until I get the talent, which is low down imo |
| 19:26.07 | nevcairiel | very far down |
| 19:26.17 | nevcairiel | but with the talent its so awesome |
| 19:26.23 | nevcairiel | best talent ever |
| 19:26.31 | jnwhiteh | hrm |
| 19:26.32 | jnwhiteh | http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/tidy-plates-threat-plates.aspx |
| 19:26.36 | jnwhiteh | is that useful for a tank |
| 19:26.45 | jnwhiteh | I find it somewhat difficult right now to now if I have aggro on everything. |
| 19:26.48 | jnwhiteh | tho I need to fix my uf |
| 19:26.53 | jnwhiteh | i'm gonna have to write perfectraid again = |
| 19:26.58 | jnwhiteh | its just so good for this. |
| 19:27.15 | nevcairiel | i use the threat thing that comes in the vanilla tidyplates |
| 19:27.23 | nevcairiel | the spinner, or how he calls it |
| 19:27.27 | jnwhiteh | i dont use tidyplates |
| 19:27.29 | nevcairiel | !addon tidyplates |
| 19:27.30 | jnwhiteh | maybe i should look at it |
| 19:27.31 | lua_bot | Found 17 addon results for 'tidyplates': http://is.gd/c4EOS |
| 19:27.40 | olafski | hm I have 3 buttons to switch stances, just did it manually until I got warbringer |
| 19:27.56 | nevcairiel | hm he doesnt have a screenshot of it |
| 19:27.59 | jnwhiteh | olafski: yeah I just haven't gotte the right feel for it. |
| 19:28.02 | nevcairiel | but yeah, tidyplates is nice |
| 19:28.19 | nevcairiel | I had a macro to charge and switch stance before warbringer |
| 19:28.54 | olafski | yer you could make a macro easily enough I guess :) |
| 19:28.59 | jnwhiteh | so the experience cut off |
| 19:29.04 | jnwhiteh | does that cost gold to swap on/off? |
| 19:29.17 | nevcairiel | i think it does, but not much, afaik |
| 19:29.19 | olafski | 5g or so? |
| 19:29.21 | olafski | not much |
| 19:29.25 | jnwhiteh | hrm |
| 19:29.29 | jnwhiteh | not worth it i think |
| 19:29.34 | jnwhiteh | how does LFD work with grouping |
| 19:29.36 | nevcairiel | you want to have fun without leveling ahead eh |
| 19:29.38 | jnwhiteh | if he's 20 and I'm 25 |
| 19:29.49 | olafski | you'll probably get into dungeons for his level |
| 19:30.06 | alestane | As long as there are dungeons in the overlap, you'll queue for those. |
| 19:30.09 | nevcairiel | It doesn't put anyone in a dungeon he isnt ready for yet |
| 19:30.09 | jnwhiteh | which may be mobs lower than my level |
| 19:30.19 | nevcairiel | so it does go by the lowest |
| 19:30.20 | jnwhiteh | if the mobs are trivial for me |
| 19:30.21 | Fisker | wtf |
| 19:30.24 | jnwhiteh | does he still get 300%? |
| 19:30.27 | nevcairiel | not sure if it would put you in a seriously low instance |
| 19:30.30 | Fisker | Fiskerdin 80 [Blood Elf] [Paladin] Ravencrest Live Hotfix 11 Successful |
| 19:30.30 | Fisker | Fiskerdin 80 [Blood Elf] [Paladin] Ravencrest Realm 0 Successful |
| 19:30.30 | Fisker | Fiskerdin 80 [Blood Elf] [Paladin] Ravencrest Lost Isles Successful |
| 19:30.30 | Fisker | Fiskerdin 80 [Blood Elf] [Paladin] Ravencrest QA Upgrade 14 Successful |
| 19:30.33 | olafski | probably jnwhiteh |
| 19:30.34 | Fisker | O_o |
| 19:30.44 | nevcairiel | jnwhiteh: trivial takes quite a while to reach, the 5 levels shouldnt do that |
| 19:30.47 | alestane | You'll probably end up in SFK or BFD. |
| 19:30.54 | olafski | nevcairiel: they could be lvl 17 :) |
| 19:30.58 | olafski | I think the only criterium is that the level difference between you two is not too big |
| 19:31.10 | krka | i'd simply not play with the RAF character alone |
| 19:31.20 | olafski | yeah roll a paladin |
| 19:31.20 | nevcairiel | but he cant stop himself :D |
| 19:31.21 | jnwhiteh | but then i have to make a nother character |
| 19:31.25 | olafski | you'll appreciate your warrior even more after that |
| 19:31.26 | krka | not worth it, you're playing with a third of the exp :/ |
| 19:31.30 | jnwhiteh | but I won't do that without RAF |
| 19:31.32 | jnwhiteh | well |
| 19:31.34 | jnwhiteh | gear farming |
| 19:31.39 | jnwhiteh | plus I enjoy tanking =) |
| 19:31.45 | olafski | krka: he's having fun even without a lot of xp :) |
| 19:31.49 | nevcairiel | seriously though, screw gear at level 22 :p |
| 19:31.55 | krka | that's impossible olafski |
| 19:32.08 | olafski | meh |
| 19:32.09 | olafski | leveling is fun |
| 19:32.36 | olafski | as soon as a char of mine reaches 80 it immediately becomes less interesting for me |
| 19:32.57 | nevcairiel | i'm already looking forward to leveling a worgen |
| 19:33.23 | olafski | me too.. if they'll let me make an 11th char on one realm |
| 19:33.29 | olafski | else I'll just delete my druid probably |
| 19:33.32 | nevcairiel | they wont |
| 19:33.47 | nevcairiel | someone asked that, and blue said there are no plans for that |
| 19:34.10 | nevcairiel | although there really is no reason to stay on one realm |
| 19:34.27 | olafski | everyone I know + my fortune are on there? ;) |
| 19:34.39 | nevcairiel | so get to know new people |
| 19:34.41 | nevcairiel | always fun |
| 19:34.42 | olafski | but I don't mind deleting a char |
| 19:34.46 | krka | oh, so leveling is less fun if you have to earn money on that character? :P |
| 19:35.05 | olafski | krka: I got my warrior to 80 with 3500g to spend.. making money isn't that hard :P |
| 19:35.30 | olafski | (with epic + cold weather flying, but no dual spec) |
| 19:35.57 | krka | sure, making money on a level 80 isn't hard |
| 19:36.02 | krka | making money on a level 10 is hard |
| 19:36.05 | olafski | _to_ 80 |
| 19:36.08 | olafski | not at 80 |
| 19:36.21 | olafski | I didn't farm at all, just leveled to 80 and ended up there with 3500g |
| 19:36.30 | nevcairiel | quests pay good money |
| 19:36.36 | nevcairiel | and you're usually left with 3 zones to do |
| 19:36.39 | olafski | yeah I leveled in LFD though :P |
| 19:36.39 | nevcairiel | which would even pay more |
| 19:36.41 | nevcairiel | if you care to do them |
| 19:36.48 | krka | at 300% xp rate, it's hard to afford all new abilities :/ |
| 19:36.53 | olafski | well, from 71 to 80 I did a couple of quests =) |
| 19:37.01 | olafski | krka: indeed |
| 19:37.15 | nevcairiel | krka: if you get 300% xp, you either have a 80 already, or your friend does |
| 19:37.27 | olafski | not necessarily, but usually yes =) |
| 19:37.33 | krka | or RAF? |
| 19:37.33 | olafski | my gf sponsored my skills when I got into the game |
| 19:37.47 | olafski | any other ways to get 300% xp? :P |
| 19:38.04 | krka | my first level 80 was made with RAF |
| 19:38.10 | olafski | mine too |
| 19:38.13 | olafski | who invited you? |
| 19:38.20 | krka | the highest before that was like 56 |
| 19:38.21 | nevcairiel | and the guy RAF'ing you had an 80 before? |
| 19:38.35 | krka | not on that realm i think |
| 19:40.38 | *** join/#wowuidev `-FISKER_Q (n_a@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 19:41.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (n_a@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 20:07.44 | *** join/#wowuidev daev (~bleh@pool-72-86-116-158.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 20:09.36 | Thunder_Child | http://www.evga.com/uvplus/ usefull, but better for a laptop methinks |
| 20:10.24 | *** join/#wowuidev daev (~bleh@pool-72-86-116-158.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 20:10.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 20:12.27 | Arrowmaster | http://www.wolfire.com/humble |
| 20:13.37 | Arrowmaster | maybe now ill be able to get proper .deb's of the other games |
| 20:13.53 | Arrowmaster | instead of silly .sh installers |
| 20:19.57 | jnwhiteh | hrm |
| 20:19.59 | jnwhiteh | tidyplates is nice |
| 20:20.04 | jnwhiteh | especially the tank set. |
| 20:20.21 | jnwhiteh | thanks for the suggestion |
| 20:20.24 | jnwhiteh | any other addons I need? |
| 20:26.03 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (~Miranda@85.108.34.95.customer.cdi.no) |
| 20:29.20 | Zyn | Arrowmaster , it's funny how the files for the games are accessable directly |
| 20:29.44 | NightHawkTheSane | Zyn: why is that funny? if you really wanted, you could choose to pay nothing, i think? |
| 20:30.03 | Zyn | no you have to pay something ... and most just punch in 0.01 :D |
| 20:30.43 | NightHawkTheSane | probably, which is sad :\ But yeah, its mostly an honor system thing. so i'm sure making sure it was hard to get to the files wasn't high on the list of things to care about |
| 20:33.24 | Arrowmaster | no there are links floating around directly to the files, you dont have to pay at all |
| 20:35.00 | Shirik | I just found my old best buy badge |
| 20:35.05 | Shirik | "Team Member since 2004" scary |
| 20:35.33 | NightHawkTheSane | Arrowmaster: yeah, but its not as if you HAVE to pay much of anything anyway? |
| 20:37.09 | Arrowmaster | i paid $15, couldnt let the linux stat drop |
| 20:40.23 | Antiarc | hahah |
| 20:40.24 | Antiarc | 13:39 Spam Shaloon: undergeared holy pally lookin for over geared 10 man icc |
| 20:40.48 | NightHawkTheSane | nice, at least he's honest? :P |
| 20:45.11 | *** join/#wowuidev PfhorSlayer (~dbarrie@174-31-245-27.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 20:46.14 | Thunder_Child | i hate hate hate soul shards |
| 20:46.38 | foxlit | hate hate hate warlocks. |
| 20:46.39 | foxlit | np! |
| 20:46.48 | foxlit | and hunters. and rogues. |
| 20:46.53 | foxlit | and death knights. |
| 20:46.59 | foxlit | and practically every other class :( |
| 20:48.44 | zenzelezz | why? |
| 20:48.45 | Thunder_Child | pther than what? |
| 20:48.48 | Thunder_Child | other* |
| 20:50.03 | foxlit | Thunder_Child: that's a question for the audience :) |
| 20:50.16 | Thunder_Child | i mean you foxlit |
| 20:50.24 | DWSR | Thunder_Child: Soul shards aren't so bad *giggles*. |
| 20:50.35 | foxlit | And I mean what I wrote :) |
| 20:50.49 | Thunder_Child | they should have made them stack |
| 20:50.54 | foxlit | well, the part about the question, anyhow. |
| 20:51.34 | Thunder_Child | foxlit: what class do you like? |
| 20:51.46 | foxlit | Hm, I like mages. |
| 20:52.01 | foxlit | Priests? |
| 20:52.04 | DWSR | Why? Because they're a joke to play? |
| 20:52.11 | foxlit | Warriors are okayish, too. |
| 20:52.29 | Thunder_Child | that is what my question was |
| 20:52.53 | foxlit | Now, see, I was answering "What class would you hate to meet in a dark, PvP alley?" |
| 20:54.26 | foxlit | And, conversely, "What class would annoy you least when you encounter them in a dark, pvp alley?" |
| 20:55.30 | *** join/#wowuidev PfhorSlayer (~dbarrie@174-31-245-27.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 20:56.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Audible (~jon@91.196.28.244) |
| 20:56.38 | Shirik | is finally downloading halo reach |
| 20:56.50 | Antiarc | dam addons |
| 20:56.52 | Antiarc | when i have bin draggin my addons to the addon folder it dosnt show up in wow and when ther in the addon folder the addons are empty |
| 20:57.29 | eidolarr | new dead weather cd is up in flac woo |
| 20:57.56 | *** join/#wowuidev mitchnull (~mitchnull@catv3EC944A1.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 20:58.08 | alestane | I was wondering if he was looking for some add-on to stem the tide of add-on comm spam or something, Antiarc. |
| 20:58.45 | Antiarc | alestane: I weep for this generation. |
| 20:59.55 | DWSR | foxlit: All of them. Unholy PvP is overpowered. |
| 21:00.08 | alestane | It's hardly new to this generation, Antiarc. |
| 21:00.09 | DWSR | Either that or my battlegroup has a serious lack of skill. |
| 21:00.14 | Gintaro | Rouges are overpowdered |
| 21:00.28 | DWSR | Gintaro: I thought they removed the powder. |
| 21:00.33 | DWSR | so now rogues are just over. |
| 21:00.39 | Gintaro | :P |
| 21:00.45 | Gintaro | well played, well played |
| 21:00.45 | DWSR | ~rimshot |
| 21:00.45 | purl | badum-TISH! |
| 21:01.24 | *** join/#wowuidev kergoth (~kergoth@ip24-251-170-95.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 21:01.30 | DWSR | Acronis is eating ma megahurtz. |
| 21:02.16 | DWSR | Trying to make a backup of an old disk that I had laying around at maximum compression. |
| 21:02.26 | DWSR | That way I can keep the contents and wipe the drive and turn it into my seeding drive. |
| 21:02.50 | Antiarc | DWSR: DK representation in the upper brackets is extremely small these days |
| 21:02.55 | Antiarc | It's all about the disc priests and aff locks |
| 21:03.10 | Shirik | youtube sucks at playing 720p videos while downloading halo reach |
| 21:03.24 | DWSR | Antiarc: It's not disproportionately small, but smaller than some,yes. |
| 21:03.26 | eidolarr | Antiarc: in what bracket? |
| 21:03.28 | DWSR | It requires skill. |
| 21:03.32 | Antiarc | 3v3 and 5v5 both |
| 21:03.45 | eidolarr | what comps are locks doing in 3v3? |
| 21:03.52 | Antiarc | http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/player |
| 21:03.52 | DWSR | Shadowplay. |
| 21:03.52 | Spejnar | spellcleave |
| 21:03.56 | DWSR | And spellcleave. |
| 21:04.05 | Torhal | Ugh. I forgot to compile UDF support into my kernel. |
| 21:04.05 | eidolarr | we sucked at shadowplay |
| 21:04.10 | eidolarr | we couldn't make it work |
| 21:04.13 | Antiarc | 1% DK representation in the SK-100 :V |
| 21:04.15 | eidolarr | so I just went destro and things were alright |
| 21:04.25 | Spejnar | afflock, unholydk, pally/shaman |
| 21:04.29 | Spejnar | gogo dot and wait |
| 21:04.42 | DWSR | ^ |
| 21:04.46 | eidolarr | are you a lock? |
| 21:04.46 | DWSR | TSG is also really good. |
| 21:04.52 | DWSR | eidolarr: I am. |
| 21:04.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Pneumatus^ (~WiN@81.174.255.134) |
| 21:04.59 | Spejnar | no, I cant pvp nor try |
| 21:05.00 | eidolarr | what comp/rating? |
| 21:05.04 | DWSR | eidolarr: Not high. |
| 21:05.06 | DWSR | I hate arenas. |
| 21:05.12 | eidolarr | oh |
| 21:05.13 | DWSR | Too much of a microcosm. |
| 21:05.15 | eidolarr | yeah no worries |
| 21:05.15 | Spejnar | other than GCDing random newbs on my huntard |
| 21:05.24 | DWSR | Spejnar: lulz. |
| 21:05.28 | DWSR | I can GCD people on my demo lock. |
| 21:05.30 | eidolarr | I just had a lot of issues with aff at like 2300 and was wondering what people are doing |
| 21:05.35 | DWSR | LULZ DEMONFORM WINWINWINWINWIN |
| 21:05.38 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 21:05.38 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 21:05.43 | eidolarr | DWSR: did you have destro before they nerfed it? that was the shit |
| 21:05.44 | DWSR | eidolarr: Pillar humping. |
| 21:05.48 | DWSR | eidolarr: Yes. |
| 21:05.52 | DWSR | Holy jesus yes it was. |
| 21:05.53 | Spejnar | eidolarr: http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=148591 |
| 21:05.55 | Spejnar | that is what ppl do |
| 21:06.37 | eidolarr | oh shit i thought this guy quit |
| 21:06.52 | *** join/#wowuidev luigithekid (~chatzilla@201.208.44.87) |
| 21:07.04 | Spejnar | he is fucking awesome |
| 21:07.05 | DWSR | eidolarr: Afflocks have 0 burst, but if you micro your felhunter correctly, you can't kill theml.\ |
| 21:07.14 | *** join/#wowuidev durcyn (~durcyn@WoWUIDev/Durcyn) |
| 21:07.16 | DWSR | They'll slowly wear you down. |
| 21:07.20 | DWSR | Except if you're an unholy deathknight. |
| 21:07.32 | DWSR | Because AMS + Lichborne + Trinket is so hawt. |
| 21:07.43 | DWSR | Haven't met an afflock I can't hard counter yet. |
| 21:07.56 | eidolarr | yeah good geared dks eat me in duels |
| 21:08.00 | eidolarr | rogues can too |
| 21:08.07 | Shirik | (Can't contact the database server: Unknown database 'enwiki' (10.0.6.35)) |
| 21:08.08 | eidolarr | idk dks aren't that scary in arenas though |
| 21:08.16 | DWSR | Most DKs are played like shit. |
| 21:08.20 | Shirik | I wonder if someone accidentally executed DROP DATABASE |
| 21:08.20 | eidolarr | they have their cds but they cant' put out the burst to maek it count |
| 21:08.36 | DWSR | eidolarr: You can if you have Bryntroll and the haste spec. |
| 21:08.40 | eidolarr | I mean even the good ones, since the nerfs they just don't put out the pressure |
| 21:08.46 | eidolarr | at least in 2's, 3's i haven't done in awhile |
| 21:08.46 | DWSR | Also, DKs have a lot of survival tools. |
| 21:09.04 | *** part/#wowuidev mitchnull (~mitchnull@catv3EC944A1.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 21:09.07 | eidolarr | i could see them being scary again w/ another support class like hunter |
| 21:10.00 | DWSR | Meh. |
| 21:10.07 | DWSR | Lots of DKs spec blood. |
| 21:10.08 | DWSR | It's shit. |
| 21:10.20 | DWSR | Properly spec'ed and geared unholy DKs are very difficult to kill. |
| 21:10.20 | eidolarr | for arenas? |
| 21:10.23 | DWSR | Period. |
| 21:10.24 | eidolarr | seems like all unholy |
| 21:10.49 | eidolarr | i seen blood doing ok in 2's in like, an outlast team, but otws all unholy |
| 21:13.37 | Shirik | hahahahaha |
| 21:13.44 | Shirik | Wikipedia went down for a few minutes because someone used = instead of == |
| 21:13.46 | Shirik | failure |
| 21:13.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (n_a@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 21:13.58 | Shirik | Someone needs to retake CS101 |
| 21:14.24 | Thunder_Child | people do make mistakes, it's not always stupidity |
| 21:14.35 | Shirik | unacceptable! |
| 21:14.42 | Shirik | we should strive to be like the borg |
| 21:14.46 | Shirik | the borg would not put an == |
| 21:14.50 | Shirik | oh Thunder_Child I downloaded the CS5 demo |
| 21:14.52 | alestane | Although having the compiler warn people about the use of = in conditionals is a good thing. |
| 21:15.08 | Thunder_Child | Shirik: and? |
| 21:15.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@c-98-239-20-229.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 21:15.11 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 21:15.15 | Shirik | and I'm going to play with it! |
| 21:15.24 | Shirik | what is "extendscript toolkit"? |
| 21:19.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~callahan@74-141-240-27.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 21:19.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Gintaro (~Gintaro@cc1040670-a.gorre1.fr.home.nl) |
| 21:20.38 | Lunessa | Tales from the workplace: Last night I accidentally sent the computer systems status report to all employees instead of the sys admin mailing list. I included a joke at the end, "No computer systems were nominated to the Supreme Court." I'm getting a lot of positive feedback about the joke. |
| 21:21.16 | alestane | Did you hear about the poor schlub who made basically that same mistake at Cornell, Lunessa? |
| 21:21.35 | Lunessa | No, did he send something in very poor taste? |
| 21:21.42 | alestane | Well, sort of. |
| 21:22.26 | Lunessa | Does this story have a happy ending? (NO, NOT LIKE THAT YOU PERVS). |
| 21:22.59 | alestane | He'd been emailing another employee back and forth all afternoon about how they were way too horny to be stuck at work and they couldn't wait to see each other. The conversation got cut off when he realized that he'd sent his last email (including quotes of all the other messages) to the entire campus email system, instead of just to her. |
| 21:23.23 | Lunessa | ... |
| 21:23.25 | alestane | And to top it off, they're married...but not to each other. |
| 21:23.27 | Shirik | Hmmmm |
| 21:23.31 | Lunessa | Life over. |
| 21:23.34 | Shirik | I'm curious to see if this sets off anyone's antivirus software |
| 21:23.35 | Shirik | deltree /y C:\ |
| 21:23.50 | Shirik | Someone reported it setting off theirs |
| 21:24.12 | Bibi | just got an alert. |
| 21:24.21 | Shirik | lol |
| 21:24.22 | Shirik | awesome |
| 21:24.23 | Lunessa | Is deltree even a valid DOS command in recent releases of Windows? |
| 21:24.24 | alestane | So no, not really a happy ending. |
| 21:24.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 21:24.36 | Shirik | no Lunessa |
| 21:24.46 | Torhal | alestane: Did she kill him? |
| 21:24.58 | Lunessa | I thought it went the way of the dodo with DOS 6. |
| 21:25.01 | alestane | No deaths were reported. To which "she" are you referring? |
| 21:25.10 | Torhal | Either of the two possibilities. |
| 21:25.12 | Torhal | Heh |
| 21:26.26 | Cide| | have you tested cs5 yet Shirik? |
| 21:26.37 | Shirik | I'm trying to find a cut off pano to test it on |
| 21:26.54 | Cide| | cut one off in ps and try it |
| 21:27.16 | Cide| | and compare! |
| 21:27.42 | Shirik | nah I want a real-world experience |
| 21:27.50 | Shirik | I don't really care what's wrong, I want to see if it's noticable |
| 21:27.57 | alestane | I feel pretty bad for the guy, actually. I mean, yes, presumably he was going behind his wife's back, which is no good...but even if she'd known and approved the relationship, I don't think either of them would have wanted it aired out over the entire email system. |
| 21:27.59 | Lunessa | alestane: There's a reason my .edu address isn't used for anything but work. |
| 21:29.04 | Kraps | how many pages does the wow magazine have? |
| 21:29.33 | Cide| | over -9000 |
| 21:29.44 | alestane | And while what he was doing was personally reprehensible, he probably didn't deserve the kind of pushback he presumably got over the affair. No one wins except the internet lulz machine. |
| 21:30.42 | Kraps | Cide|: you mustn't lie so much |
| 21:31.13 | alestane | He put a minus in there. |
| 21:31.21 | Kraps | this is cool http://cde.cerosmedia.com/1R4be16d2a32de7608.cde/page/6 |
| 21:33.27 | Torhal | Kraps: WTF? There's an online version already? I haven't gotten my hardcopy yet. |
| 21:33.31 | alestane | Dream Theatre seems incapable of arranging a track under 10 minutes or so. |
| 21:34.05 | Cide| | so true |
| 21:34.14 | Lunessa | alestane: I'm lulzing right now. |
| 21:34.17 | Cide| | well |
| 21:34.22 | alestane | Over? |
| 21:34.24 | Cide| | they have two that are <10 in their latest album |
| 21:34.25 | Kraps | Torhal: blizzes preview |
| 21:34.37 | Shirik | Thunder_Child: Do you know why they say "Merge to HDR Pro" instead of "Merge to HDR" now? |
| 21:34.43 | alestane | This track is actually 8.5 or so. But the principle stands. |
| 21:34.49 | Cide| | a rite of passage? |
| 21:34.57 | Thunder_Child | Shirik: because you have a demo? |
| 21:35.04 | Shirik | ? |
| 21:35.20 | Thunder_Child | you said you downloaded a demo |
| 21:35.35 | Shirik | but you have CS5 right? |
| 21:35.41 | Thunder_Child | but i know they also upgraded their HDR merge stuff now |
| 21:35.48 | alestane | Lulzing over the email oops, Lunessa, or something else? |
| 21:35.49 | Thunder_Child | yes, but i have not used that yet |
| 21:36.00 | Shirik | ah |
| 21:36.02 | Lunessa | alestane: The email oops. |
| 21:37.07 | alestane | It's just...one bad address entry, and he'll probably be paying for it for the rest of his life to some extent. |
| 21:37.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~callahan@74-141-240-27.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 21:37.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Alram (~Marla@fabe.xs4all.nl) |
| 21:38.13 | alestane | Ah, Toshley's Station. |
| 21:38.31 | alestane | Where no-one bats an eyelash at outbursts of "I'm ON FIRE! AGAIN!" |
| 21:39.13 | Lunessa | *hopes for more places like that* |
| 21:39.21 | zenzelezz | I love that exclamation |
| 21:39.39 | alestane | "Use: Click to waive Tally Zapnabber's liability." |
| 21:39.54 | zenzelezz | whatever you can say about doing Outland now, I loved it in BC |
| 21:41.17 | Lunessa | Well, presumably there will be goblin pcs who take engineering... |
| 21:41.45 | zenzelezz | goblins? Pah! |
| 21:41.55 | zenzelezz | we likes our friendly gnomes |
| 21:42.26 | Lunessa | I like gnones too, but there weren't any goblin PCs to take Goblin Engineering. Until Cataclysm comes out anyway. :) |
| 21:43.35 | zenzelezz | I'm still not seeing the connection; I thought we were talking about gnomes setting themselves on fire? |
| 21:43.59 | zenzelezz | or am I misremembering the races at Toshley's? |
| 21:44.06 | Kraps | i was looking through massively.com and i'm like "oh this game looks cool, and this one, and this one". then i made my way to aion's website. i want to play it so bad :( |
| 21:44.36 | Shirik | ok I'm having trouble understanding this |
| 21:44.48 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 21:44.48 | Shirik | I asked to rent a lens, they were to ship it to me to be received by Thursday |
| 21:44.55 | Fisker | you should write a plugin for Windows Media Player |
| 21:44.56 | Shirik | I ordered it on monday, my card got declined |
| 21:45.04 | Shirik | fixed the issue with my bank, ordered it today, they're shipping it today |
| 21:45.16 | Shirik | yesterday they were charging me $76 for shipping, today they're charging me $45 |
| 21:45.17 | Fisker | so what, wanna fight about it? |
| 21:45.44 | cbreak | it broke into two pieces and they lost one |
| 21:45.50 | cbreak | so the other piece is cheaper to ship |
| 21:45.52 | Shirik | lol |
| 21:46.00 | Shirik | don't even joke about that ( |
| 21:46.04 | Shirik | It's an $8000 lens :( |
| 21:46.04 | Lunessa | I'm looking for a goblin Toshley' Station with explosions! |
| 21:46.11 | cbreak | nice |
| 21:46.17 | cbreak | do you have a body to use such an item? |
| 21:46.26 | Shirik | yup |
| 21:46.30 | Gnarfoz | do you have a reason to use such an item? |
| 21:46.32 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 21:46.32 | Shirik | yup |
| 21:46.39 | Shirik | I'm going on vacation :3 |
| 21:46.43 | Shirik | going to take some nice shots |
| 21:46.45 | Gnarfoz | that's like... not a reason |
| 21:46.46 | cbreak | (he's spying on aliens on the moon) |
| 21:46.56 | Shirik | Actually it's only a 400mm lens |
| 21:47.05 | Gnarfoz | $8000 sounds like not aimed at amateurs |
| 21:47.18 | Lunessa | Not. He's fianlly giving in to his inner creep-a-zoid and needs the lens to take candids of naked chicks. |
| 21:47.20 | cbreak | it sounds like you'll be very nervous during your holidays |
| 21:47.20 | Shirik | It's also out of my price range |
| 21:47.24 | Shirik | that's why I rented it instead of buying it |
| 21:47.28 | Gnarfoz | that's why you're renting it, yeah |
| 21:47.30 | Gnarfoz | :9 |
| 21:47.31 | foxlit | Clearly compensating. |
| 21:47.44 | Shirik | but seriously it's for wildlife shots |
| 21:47.46 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-68-38-51-80.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 21:47.54 | Shirik | Honestly, I don't think it should be $8000 |
| 21:47.58 | Gnarfoz | wildlife, where are you going on vacation to? |
| 21:48.06 | Shirik | it's because it's this awesome technology canon came up with that's patented |
| 21:48.07 | cbreak | be very careful |
| 21:48.09 | Gnarfoz | (is that syntactically correct? o_O) |
| 21:48.10 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 21:48.16 | Shirik | Gnarfoz: Sedona |
| 21:48.22 | Gnarfoz | ~wiki sedona |
| 21:48.39 | Gnarfoz | Arizona wildlife? |
| 21:48.41 | Fisker | some awesome US people go give some screenshots of the new chat |
| 21:48.42 | Shirik | yes sir |
| 21:48.53 | Gnarfoz | hmmm. |
| 21:49.05 | Shirik | You'll see in a week and a half :) |
| 21:49.06 | NightHawkTheSane | the wild drug cartels down there are pretty spectacular. :P |
| 21:49.07 | Gnarfoz | that exceeds my knowledge of the U.S. fauna |
| 21:49.21 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 21:49.28 | Gnarfoz | Fisker: waiiiit for it |
| 21:49.32 | Shirik | NightHawkTheSane: lol |
| 21:49.33 | Fisker | oh gotta watch out for that EDI bitch |
| 21:49.38 | Fisker | aka Extreme Deep Invader |
| 21:51.11 | Fisker | Shirik  |
| 21:51.14 | Gnarfoz | Fisker: remind me, which one is the german ptr realm? |
| 21:51.25 | Fisker | none |
| 21:51.32 | Gnarfoz | fu |
| 21:51.39 | Kraps | now i know who Krasus is! |
| 21:51.43 | Fisker | They're English PvE and English PvP |
| 21:51.43 | Fisker | ;3 |
| 21:52.04 | Gnarfoz | ? naralex was french last round |
| 21:52.12 | Gnarfoz | and I remember now, it would be Fordring |
| 21:52.27 | Gnarfoz | anyway, it's not like I'll have time to do any PTRing :< |
| 21:52.40 | Gnarfoz | and the fucking character copy is broken |
| 21:53.01 | Fisker | yeah |
| 21:56.36 | *** join/#wowuidev myrkraverk (~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk) |
| 21:57.00 | myrkraverk | Is there anything I can do about: An action was blocked in combat because of taint from PetTarget - TargetofPetFrame:Show() ? |
| 21:57.58 | Kraps | shit, they need to put this stuff in the game or cinematics http://www.wowwiki.com/Anveena_Teague |
| 21:58.00 | Torhal | is determined to finally play Oblivion. |
| 21:58.17 | Gnarfoz | Kraps: it's in the game? |
| 21:58.20 | Gnarfoz | she's the Sunwell |
| 21:59.10 | Kraps | hmm |
| 21:59.12 | Gnarfoz | (or are you referring to something else on that page, I was just going off her name) |
| 22:00.03 | Lunessa | Why are you trying to show the PetFrame with a script? |
| 22:00.35 | myrkraverk | Lunessa, It's not the petframe, but a pet target frame I made myself |
| 22:00.41 | Gnarfoz | http://www.wowwiki.com/File:Sunwell.jpg <- awesome WC3 understatement graphics |
| 22:00.45 | myrkraverk | since it's not in the default UI |
| 22:00.52 | Lunessa | Ah, it |
| 22:01.01 | Lunessa | It's a secure frame then. |
| 22:01.04 | Gnarfoz | myrkraverk: regardless - if it's a secure frame, you can't just :Show() it |
| 22:01.18 | myrkraverk | Well, it shows under some circumstances, and not others |
| 22:01.31 | Fisker | i will destroy you Gnarfoz |
| 22:01.37 | Gnarfoz | mostly: try it once in combat and it will fail until you reload ui? :D |
| 22:01.40 | Fisker | hey Shirik ? |
| 22:01.40 | myrkraverk | I guess I must not inherit from SecureUnitButtonTemplate ;-P |
| 22:01.44 | Kraps | Gnarfoz: looks epic |
| 22:01.48 | Kraps | wait no |
| 22:01.54 | myrkraverk | Gnarfoz, I haven't tested that yet. |
| 22:02.07 | myrkraverk | Let me see, if I find something to attack. |
| 22:02.14 | Gnarfoz | myrkraverk: if you want to be able to use it like a normal unitframe, you'll have to inherit from that, and comply to the API that is used for those frames |
| 22:02.50 | Gnarfoz | (and I can't really elaborate further than that, secure frames (both 2.x and 3.x incarnations) have remained a mystery for me, so far |
| 22:02.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Esamynn|work (~cc32712b@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Esamynn) |
| 22:02.53 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Esamynn|work] by ChanServ |
| 22:02.58 | Esamynn|work | http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1648320&cid=32172906 <-- hilarious WW2 comparison to a WoW boss fight |
| 22:03.03 | Esamynn|work | had to share, that just cracked me up |
| 22:03.16 | myrkraverk | Ok, it shows when I use my pet to attack a target |
| 22:03.35 | myrkraverk | but not when I attack the target first |
| 22:03.37 | Gnarfoz | sounds about right, you yourself don't enter combat as soon as your pet switches target |
| 22:04.01 | myrkraverk | so, is there a way to show the frame when I'm in combat? |
| 22:04.10 | Gnarfoz | yes |
| 22:04.27 | Gnarfoz | you'll have to use the appropriate secure frame... stuff... magic |
| 22:04.42 | Esamynn|work | voodoo! |
| 22:04.42 | myrkraverk | Ok, where can I find more info on that "magic" ? |
| 22:04.55 | myrkraverk | Ok, I tried a training dummy, it shows then |
| 22:04.59 | Gnarfoz | you'll need |
| 22:05.00 | Gnarfoz | ~framexml |
| 22:05.00 | purl | Official: (Mac) http://ftp.blizzard.com/pub/WoW/other/AddOnKit.dmg, (Win) http://ftp.blizzard.com/pub/WoW/other/AddOnKit.zip. Compare: http://wowprogramming.com/utils/xmlbrowser |
| 22:05.09 | Gnarfoz | and... someone who can tell you the exact filename |
| 22:05.16 | Gnarfoz | SecureHeaderTemplates.lua? |
| 22:05.16 | myrkraverk | Ok. |
| 22:05.19 | Gnarfoz | not sure reallyh |
| 22:05.26 | Esamynn|work | Secure*.lua |
| 22:05.26 | myrkraverk | I can find the file easily |
| 22:05.32 | myrkraverk | I haz grep |
| 22:05.40 | Gnarfoz | one of the Secure* ones, they start out with HUGE blocks of commentary, which are basically the documentation |
| 22:05.58 | myrkraverk | I naively just copied the focus target frame xml/code |
| 22:06.05 | myrkraverk | Ok |
| 22:06.07 | Gnarfoz | Blizzard's? |
| 22:06.09 | myrkraverk | Yes |
| 22:06.11 | Gnarfoz | heh |
| 22:06.16 | myrkraverk | As I said, it mostly works ;) |
| 22:06.19 | Gnarfoz | that won't work, Blizzard are cheaters |
| 22:06.22 | Esamynn|work | yah, I miss the days when that just worked ;) |
| 22:06.37 | Gnarfoz | Esamynn|work: it's "those days" for Blizzard every day :( |
| 22:06.37 | foxlit | Things just work now, too |
| 22:06.47 | myrkraverk | I wonder if I can add ## Secure: 1 to my toc file to make it work ;-P |
| 22:06.50 | foxlit | You just have to know your way around a few more files :) |
| 22:06.54 | Esamynn|work | I meant the copying of what Blizzard did :P |
| 22:06.59 | Kraps | i want to make a macro the plays a list of sound files in order, how do i do that? |
| 22:07.00 | Gnarfoz | myrkraverk: only if you add the appropriate .toc.sig file |
| 22:07.07 | Esamynn|work | ^ |
| 22:07.14 | myrkraverk | Gnarfoz, Ah, ok |
| 22:07.15 | alestane | myrkraverk: I think someone would have figured that out by now. |
| 22:07.25 | alestane | And yes, it has to be signed with the right hash. |
| 22:07.27 | myrkraverk | alestane, hehe yeah, that was actually a joke ;) |
| 22:07.42 | Gnarfoz | the only publicly known one is probably the one in Slouken's BindPad addon, if you want to take a peek |
| 22:08.04 | foxlit | The framexml addons are signed, I think. |
| 22:08.09 | Gnarfoz | well, you could probably extract all Blizzard_* addons |
| 22:08.19 | Gnarfoz | yeah, they would have to be, heh |
| 22:08.26 | myrkraverk | I have a few blizzard addons, and they are probbaly signed |
| 22:08.30 | foxlit | Well, no. And it bit them in the arse once. |
| 22:08.41 | Gnarfoz | lalala AutoMacro |
| 22:08.52 | Gnarfoz | (that was something else, tbh) |
| 22:08.52 | foxlit | But rather than removing needless signatures, they chose to fix the lua code involved. |
| 22:09.01 | myrkraverk | Ok |
| 22:09.16 | Esamynn|work | needless signatures? |
| 22:09.29 | foxlit | There's no reason for debug tools to be signed. |
| 22:09.32 | Kraps | Esamynn|work: "Oh and the warlock (US) used soulfire on japan (random additional mob) got a massive crit and one shot it." |
| 22:09.33 | myrkraverk | One thing I've been wondering, is it possible to have local macros in Blizzard default action bars/buttons? |
| 22:09.34 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (~airtonix@unaffiliated/airtonix) |
| 22:09.48 | Esamynn|work | oh, the debug tools |
| 22:10.11 | Gnarfoz | myrkraverk: local macros? |
| 22:11.01 | myrkraverk | Gnarfoz, yes, like in the macaroon addon, but for the default action buttons/bars |
| 22:11.10 | Esamynn|work | Kraps: you're the second person to quote that line at me :P |
| 22:11.34 | Gnarfoz | you can just create a macro and drag it on any bar you like |
| 22:11.35 | myrkraverk | what is that quote? |
| 22:12.00 | Gnarfoz | macaroon doesn't really count as a good example, the whole point of the addon is to not use Blizzard's action buttons =D |
| 22:12.06 | myrkraverk | Gnarfoz, yes, I know -- I just want more and longer, according to the macaroon author: Blizzards internal macro system can handly macros up to 1024 characters in length |
| 22:12.12 | Gnarfoz | ah, that |
| 22:12.33 | Gnarfoz | yeah, I guess the macrotext attribute of a secure action button can fit more macro text than a regular macro |
| 22:12.52 | foxlit | No. There is no way to get additional proper macros once you're out of them. |
| 22:12.59 | Gnarfoz | you could: make a macro that calls another macro on the last line |
| 22:13.06 | foxlit | (by "proper" I mean those you could associate with action bar actions) |
| 22:13.19 | Gnarfoz | foxlit: improving macro length vs. improving number of macros |
| 22:13.29 | myrkraverk | foxlit, macaroon does just that, but not with blizzards buttons |
| 22:13.48 | foxlit | myrkraverk: precisely my point: it does not do what I mean. |
| 22:13.50 | myrkraverk | and if I'm using macrotext anyway, I can use local macros |
| 22:13.52 | foxlit | Gnarfoz: asked about both :) |
| 22:13.59 | myrkraverk | I hope |
| 22:14.13 | Gnarfoz | foxlit: idd, I just saw the "1024 characters in length" part |
| 22:14.29 | myrkraverk | foxlit, that macaroon doesn't use blizzards buttons doesn't mean they can't be |
| 22:14.35 | Gnarfoz | it does |
| 22:14.47 | Gnarfoz | you'd have to edit Blizzard's code to achieve that |
| 22:15.02 | myrkraverk | well, what little I've read of blizzards code, I don't |
| 22:15.25 | Gnarfoz | (that being adding a feature to edit Blizzard's actionbarbutton's macrotext attribute) |
| 22:15.41 | Gnarfoz | at least that's my understanding of it, someone please correct me ;D |
| 22:15.58 | myrkraverk | Gnarfoz, I'll try to remember to let you know if I ever find out |
| 22:16.16 | foxlit | myrkraverk: you're right, macaroon not doing something doesn't mean it can't be done. |
| 22:16.16 | Gnarfoz | (if you could, an addon that did what Macaroon does, just with Blizzard's buttons, would probably exist) |
| 22:16.46 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 22:16.51 | foxlit | However, in this particular case, you simply cannot create additional proper macros with addon code -- you'll end up faking them as soon as you run out of real macro slots. |
| 22:16.54 | Fisker | i want to PTR RIGHT NOW KD3 |
| 22:16.55 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: around? if yes, can you answer the above? |
| 22:17.00 | Fisker | can you PTR kd3 ? |
| 22:17.01 | kd3 | me too, fisk-fisk |
| 22:17.03 | kd3 | not yet |
| 22:17.12 | kd3 | Adys, pong |
| 22:17.12 | Fisker | bah |
| 22:17.18 | Gnarfoz | I want to real-id add Fisker on PTR |
| 22:17.24 | Fisker | weirdo |
| 22:17.31 | Fisker | and now that i'll be forced to stay up until like 3AM just to get it working |
| 22:17.31 | Gnarfoz | stalks |
| 22:17.39 | Torhal | Stabs Oblivion's DRM to death with Fisker. |
| 22:17.51 | Torhal | fails to properly emote as well. |
| 22:18.06 | myrkraverk | foxlit, I don't want to create "proper macros" but "fake macros" stored locally |
| 22:18.21 | foxlit | Do you want to drag them to your blizzard-provided action bars? |
| 22:18.29 | myrkraverk | preferably, yes |
| 22:18.34 | Torhal | Then you need real ones. |
| 22:18.35 | Gnarfoz | that wouldn't be how it works |
| 22:18.36 | foxlit | Then no, it cannot be done. |
| 22:18.52 | myrkraverk | ok |
| 22:19.31 | Fisker | anyway |
| 22:19.43 | Fisker | i finally found out why Windows Media Player is retarded with libraries |
| 22:19.50 | Fisker | just need someone to write me a WMP plugin now :( |
| 22:19.53 | *** join/#wowuidev ArrowmasterClass (~8c6af588@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ResponsibleForEverythingAndNothing/Arrowmaster) |
| 22:22.52 | Esamynn|work | Gnarfoz: I'm hoping I can taunt friends playing WoW from the SC2 beta ;) |
| 22:22.59 | Gnarfoz | Esamynn|work: idd |
| 22:23.11 | Gnarfoz | however |
| 22:23.13 | Fisker | i wonder how it'll work with stuff like that |
| 22:23.25 | Gnarfoz | that would require 3.3.5 to go live before sc2 release |
| 22:23.28 | Fisker | For example if i had rob pardo on my battle.net friends list |
| 22:23.36 | Fisker | would it show him if he was playing cataclysm? :P |
| 22:23.47 | Fisker | or show him as playing cataclysm anyway |
| 22:24.00 | Esamynn|work | shrugs |
| 22:24.09 | Gnarfoz | that can easily be tested whenever ptr starts working |
| 22:24.18 | Esamynn|work | who knows if the realid stuff is even in the Cataclysm line yet |
| 22:24.23 | Gnarfoz | sc2-beta should work the same way |
| 22:24.32 | Fisker | the strings are there Esamynn|Away :P |
| 22:24.46 | Esamynn|work | shrugs |
| 22:24.49 | Esamynn|work | doesn't mean much |
| 22:26.06 | Fisker | that's what your mom said about our relationship while i was doing her |
| 22:26.10 | Fisker | baboom? |
| 22:26.13 | Thunder_Child | was there un-official patch notes for today? |
| 22:27.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~callahan@74-141-240-27.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 22:27.29 | Gnarfoz | Thunder_Child: why would there be patch notes if there was no patch? |
| 22:27.52 | Esamynn|work | Fisker: honestly, that was pretty sad |
| 22:28.11 | Gnarfoz | Thunder_Child: or did you mean PTR, if so, there's official ones only, since PTR doesn't work, yet |
| 22:28.30 | Esamynn|work | is there a PTR forum? |
| 22:28.40 | Thunder_Child | Gnarfoz: no i mean main, since there seems to be something screwy with the tanks in strand |
| 22:28.54 | Gnarfoz | no patch, so *shrug* |
| 22:29.07 | Esamynn|work | oh there's the test realm forum |
| 22:29.14 | Esamynn|work | I guess they hide it when not in use |
| 22:29.38 | Gnarfoz | if anything, there'd probably be a post in the "Recent in-game changes" thread, but that'd probably be all over boub's site already |
| 22:30.00 | Gnarfoz | oh he's not here, heh |
| 22:30.45 | airtonix | dispatches a team of monkeys after Fisker |
| 22:32.09 | Fisker | moar |
| 22:32.46 | Gnarfoz | airtonix: trunk monkeys? |
| 22:33.23 | Fisker | hey kd3 |
| 22:33.24 | airtonix | dispatches a herd of ninja goats after Fisker |
| 22:33.30 | Fisker | THERE WAS AN ERROR WITH YOUR REQUEST |
| 22:33.30 | Fisker | RAWR |
| 22:33.37 | Gryphon | ono i esceared of teh rawr! i need a huggle. |
| 22:35.39 | Fisker | grr kd3 |
| 22:35.44 | Fisker | why does their system have to be so stupid? |
| 22:38.02 | ArrowmasterClass | im finally looking at that 3.3.5 diff and finding a few major wtf's |
| 22:38.27 | ArrowmasterClass | self.defaultLanguage = GetDefaultLanguage(); --If PLAYER_ENTERING_WORLD hasn't been called yet, this is nil, but it'll be fixed whent he event is fired. |
| 22:38.33 | ArrowmasterClass | inside of ChatFrame_OnLoad |
| 22:38.52 | ArrowmasterClass | wouldnt that only ever run before PLAYER_ENTERING_WORLD? |
| 22:39.24 | Esamynn|work | are there dynamically created chat frames now, perhaps? |
| 22:40.51 | Lunessa | Um, yes. |
| 22:40.59 | Lunessa | New whisper frames. |
| 22:41.04 | Fisker | i wonder if this new PTR system is to hide a certain beta realm :P |
| 22:41.55 | Lunessa | You could conceivably show on someone's RealID list before PEW happens. |
| 22:42.08 | ArrowmasterClass | this is funny, within the same block of code they use strfind, strmatch, string.find, and string.match |
| 22:42.36 | Fisker | ;3 |
| 22:42.47 | ArrowmasterClass | and they use a while loop..... |
| 22:42.57 | Fisker | sounds like something you'd do Arrowmaster |
| 22:43.07 | airtonix | inb4 qq |
| 22:43.09 | ArrowmasterClass | no i wouldnt |
| 22:43.42 | kd3 | hm? |
| 22:43.50 | Fisker | But you would |
| 22:43.56 | Fisker | kd3 get us all cataclysm beta access instead |
| 22:44.03 | Fisker | atleast their copy service work |
| 22:44.13 | kd3 | soon as the nda goes poof |
| 22:45.09 | Fisker | you already broke it |
| 22:45.19 | kd3 | not as much as blizz has |
| 22:45.34 | airtonix | but you admit to fiddling with it |
| 22:45.42 | airtonix | ? |
| 22:45.46 | Fisker | i would say you're about equal |
| 22:45.53 | kd3 | hm? |
| 22:45.54 | Fisker | though Blizzard can't really break the NDA |
| 22:45.56 | ArrowmasterClass | why the hell is /w hardcoded into this code |
| 22:46.03 | ArrowmasterClass | who the fuck is responsible for that crap |
| 22:46.50 | myrkraverk | Fixed with RegisterUnitWatch(self); -- yay |
| 22:46.51 | Fisker | you actually |
| 22:47.09 | Fisker | One day you'll meet up with Blizzard devs and find out they keep a clone of you captured |
| 22:47.33 | *** join/#wowuidev AnduinLothar (~KarlKFI|w@WoWUIDev/Cosmos/AnduinLothar) |
| 22:47.33 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v AnduinLothar] by ChanServ |
| 22:48.14 | Torhal | ArrowmasterClass: They replaced the interns with freshmen. |
| 22:48.27 | Torhal | Or had the Facebook coders have a go at it. |
| 22:48.28 | airtonix | as in fresh clones |
| 22:49.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Allara|away (~chatzilla@c-98-246-148-48.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 22:50.02 | Pytlask | ArrowMasterClass: o.O Where is "/w" hard-coded? |
| 22:50.10 | Fisker | I will take you anywhere you want kd3 |
| 22:50.13 | Fisker | one condition |
| 22:50.15 | Fisker | it has to be amazing |
| 22:50.21 | kd3 | let's go to the moon |
| 22:50.26 | Cide| | Pytlask: I'm guessing SLASH_WHISPER2 = "/w" |
| 22:50.28 | Fisker | that's not amazing :( |
| 22:50.38 | kd3 | sure it is. only a dozen humans have ever been there |
| 22:50.45 | airtonix | and he wasn't talking about the destination. |
| 22:50.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (~Lopeppepp@cpe-67-252-44-53.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 22:50.56 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 22:50.58 | Pytlask | Cide| I don't see that. Is it in GlobalStrings? |
| 22:51.03 | Cide| | no |
| 22:51.04 | Pytlask | oh, I see |
| 22:51.06 | Fisker | no? |
| 22:51.06 | Cide| | check it in wow. |
| 22:51.14 | alestane | Hugapeppy. |
| 22:51.16 | Pytlask | Wait, I don't think that code has ever changed... |
| 22:51.22 | ArrowmasterClass | ChatFrame_SendTell |
| 22:51.27 | Fisker | slashhandlers would pretty usually be in the addon code |
| 22:51.28 | Fisker | :P |
| 22:51.36 | alestane | Just did Utgarde Keep on Kirin Tor for the first time? |
| 22:51.37 | Fisker | blargh kd3 |
| 22:51.40 | *** join/#wowuidev MatthewWW (~lolRp@142.162.205.114) |
| 22:51.47 | Fisker | now stuck on the change account part |
| 22:51.49 | alestane | /?/!/ |
| 22:52.14 | Pytlask | ArrowmasterClass: My diff shows that that function didn't change :P Though it is definitely a little strange |
| 22:52.14 | airtonix | please explain |
| 22:52.36 | ArrowmasterClass | also in ChatMenu_Whisper |
| 22:52.56 | Pytlask | Yah, I don't have either of those as having changed since at least before 2.0 |
| 22:53.03 | Pytlask | Though it's definitely a bit of a wtf |
| 22:53.28 | ArrowmasterClass | Pytlask: kd3's diff shows that it was used before but they re did it and kept using it hardcoded |
| 22:53.37 | Esamynn|work | whatcu talkin bout? Blizzard's FrameXML code is PERFECT! :P |
| 22:53.42 | Lopeppeppy | Heya, alestane. |
| 22:53.44 | kd3 | lol |
| 22:54.32 | Esamynn|work | oh wait, that's just the Group Header templates ;) |
| 22:54.33 | Lopeppeppy | Esamynn, you crack me right the hell up. |
| 22:54.35 | ScytheBlade1 | kd3: neat diff |
| 22:54.36 | Fisker | i wan to PTR |
| 22:54.37 | Fisker | right now |
| 22:54.38 | Fisker | now. |
| 22:54.53 | Fisker | with a chocolate on top |
| 22:55.01 | Esamynn|work | ~lart Fisker |
| 22:55.01 | purl | whips out a sword and chops Fisker in half |
| 22:55.03 | Lopeppeppy | so go find one, Fisker. |
| 22:55.04 | Pytlask | ArrowmasterClass: Also, what's so bad about using a while loop? |
| 22:55.51 | ArrowmasterClass | i dont really like they way they are using it |
| 22:55.55 | Fisker | *HNNNNNNNNNNNNG* |
| 22:55.57 | Fisker | there's the chocolate |
| 22:56.00 | Fisker | now to find a PTR |
| 22:56.14 | Fisker | also mental images, go! |
| 22:56.27 | ArrowmasterClass | with a string.match to find spaces and later breaking out if their function finds what its looking for |
| 22:56.31 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane_ (~alestane@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 22:56.44 | Kraps | theres no way to turn off error sounds in-game? |
| 22:56.57 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 22:57.00 | Pytlask | ArrowmasterClass: Ah, I see, the ExtractTellTarget code. Yah, it's a little strange. Though I can't think of a better way to do that in Lua off-hand |
| 22:58.21 | ArrowmasterClass | i would have to look at the details of the other functions its using to try to come up with a better solution |
| 23:00.31 | ArrowmasterClass | somebody please fucking tell me that inside of function FCF_OpenNewWindow is a local temp |
| 23:00.31 | ScytheBlade1 | cross-game comm... finally |
| 23:00.48 | ArrowmasterClass | +temp, temp, temp, temp, temp, temp, shown, temp = FCF_GetChatWindowInfo(i); |
| 23:01.15 | ScytheBlade1 | rofl |
| 23:01.19 | ScytheBlade1 | I like it |
| 23:01.43 | Esamynn|work | ~calm ArrowmasterClass |
| 23:01.54 | Esamynn|work | ~poke |
| 23:02.42 | Esamynn|work | pokes purl |
| 23:02.58 | Esamynn|work | ~lart purl |
| 23:02.58 | purl | breaks out the Hoover and sucks up esamynn|work |
| 23:03.09 | Esamynn|work | ~soothe ArrowmasterClass |
| 23:03.10 | Fisker | ~fart |
| 23:03.10 | purl | ACTION farts, releasing large quantities of methane and sulfur dioxide. "Evacuate the channel! GO! *gag* SAVE YOURSELVES *cough* MOVE *choke* MOVE!" |
| 23:03.28 | Fisker | can i hate you ScytheBlade1? |
| 23:03.36 | ScytheBlade1 | Sure |
| 23:03.38 | ScytheBlade1 | ~love Fisker |
| 23:03.40 | Esamynn|work | Fisker: I don't know, can you? |
| 23:03.49 | ScytheBlade1 | .... @ ~love not being defined |
| 23:03.53 | Fisker | aww i can't stay mad at you ScytheBlade1 |
| 23:04.01 | Esamynn|work | ~status |
| 23:04.01 | purl | Since Fri Apr 30 19:47:02 2010, there have been 87 modifications, 546 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 313 commands. I have been awake for 11d 3h 16m 59s this session, and currently reference 0 factoids. I'm using about 22424 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 26987.51/716.62 child 0.17/0.09 |
| 23:04.14 | Esamynn|work | ahh |
| 23:04.21 | Esamynn|work | purl's memory has been "lost" again :( |
| 23:04.58 | Fisker | that's rich |
| 23:05.04 | Fisker | being taken to the login screen to logout |
| 23:05.58 | foxlit | Type your username and password to continue, Fisker. |
| 23:09.07 | Fisker | release me foxlit |
| 23:09.23 | foxlit | You could just wait for the release timer, Fisker. |
| 23:10.07 | Lopeppeppy | releases Fisker. Violently. |
| 23:11.33 | shifuimam | mm where does WoW store save variable files |
| 23:11.46 | Fisker | i need to ptr |
| 23:12.04 | Torhal | shifuimam: http://www.wowwiki.com/SavedVariables |
| 23:12.57 | Fisker | Damn Blizzard |
| 23:13.05 | Fisker | They're doing this to annoy us etc. |
| 23:13.27 | NightHawkTheSane | ~mourn purl |
| 23:13.31 | NightHawkTheSane | :( |
| 23:13.56 | shifuimam | well that was a big fail. can you not just copy savevariable stuff from one char to another? |
| 23:14.26 | foxlit | Yes, but. |
| 23:14.40 | foxlit | Some addons may not be too open to the idea. |
| 23:14.49 | shifuimam | it doesn't seem like any of the addons took to it |
| 23:14.53 | shifuimam | crap |
| 23:14.58 | Fisker | no buts foxlit |
| 23:15.11 | foxlit | police bells, Fisker. |
| 23:15.41 | foxlit | What are we shipping off to eurovision, anyway? |
| 23:16.55 | Fisker | wat |
| 23:16.57 | Fisker | WAT |
| 23:17.00 | airtonix | Fisker, http://www.roflmachine.com/fun/blackup.jpg |
| 23:18.00 | Fisker | http://i43.tinypic.com/qn5raf.png |
| 23:18.12 | shifuimam | all these savevariable files are completely empty. WTF... |
| 23:18.15 | airtonix | Fisker, http://estore.blackup.com/ |
| 23:18.50 | foxlit | And which one of them is the evergreen? |
| 23:21.50 | Fisker | yay they said "soon" |
| 23:22.57 | shifuimam | do addons ever store config data anywhere besides the savevariables.lua files? i'm not finding any of my settings anywhere |
| 23:23.36 | WobWork | jnwhiteh: threat plates are fantastic for the tanks |
| 23:23.44 | cbreak | it's the only place |
| 23:23.50 | cbreak | but there are per character and global files |
| 23:23.52 | WobWork | jnwhiteh: less so in a multi tank situation, but still useful otherwise |
| 23:24.14 | cbreak | and technically, an addon can store it's data in the file of an other addon |
| 23:24.18 | cbreak | but if it does that, it's evil |
| 23:24.42 | ArrowmasterClass | shifuimam: addons can not store data inside SavedVariables.lua anymore |
| 23:24.47 | Dagmar | shifuiman: Depending on which OS you're using, they may be in a less obvious place |
| 23:25.09 | shifuimam | windows vista. there are a few addon specific .lua files under /realm/char/savedvariables |
| 23:25.22 | ArrowmasterClass | where is wow installed? |
| 23:25.23 | Dagmar | Win7 is cool about initially reading what you cloned into c:\Program Files (x86)\World of Warcraft, and then writing any *new* versions deep inside C:\Users\Yername |
| 23:25.24 | shifuimam | but i copied EVERYTHING in /realm/char to a different char's folder and it didn't load anything |
| 23:25.29 | shifuimam | D:\Games\WoW\ |
| 23:25.36 | cbreak | windows sucks |
| 23:25.48 | shifuimam | Dagmar: i'm not finding anything wow related in my user folder |
| 23:25.52 | ArrowmasterClass | just copying the files doesnt always work |
| 23:25.55 | cbreak | shifuimam: there's a global config file too |
| 23:26.01 | cbreak | (for each addon) |
| 23:26.02 | shifuimam | yeah, and that's empty |
| 23:26.09 | shifuimam | wait...where are those stored? |
| 23:26.15 | airtonix | locate wow | grep addoname |
| 23:26.15 | cbreak | savedvariables... |
| 23:26.22 | Dagmar | shifuimam: Well, unless you have a slow disk, go ahead and tell it to search for that filename anywhere on C: and D: |
| 23:26.26 | cbreak | addonname.lua |
| 23:26.34 | Dagmar | You can just minimize the window while it does it's thing |
| 23:26.38 | Fisker | i hate this system so very much kd3 |
| 23:26.45 | shifuimam | yeah, i have some addon-named .lua savevariables files, but only for a few of my addons |
| 23:26.48 | cbreak | searching your HD shouldn't take longer than 5 seconds or so |
| 23:26.49 | Dagmar | This is the only way I found the damn thing when I last had that issue |
| 23:26.53 | cbreak | unless your index fails |
| 23:26.54 | airtonix | Fisker, your still subscribed though |
| 23:27.10 | Dagmar | cbreak: You don't have half a terabyte of stuff to search through |
| 23:27.20 | cbreak | no. I have 2 tb of stuff. |
| 23:27.21 | shifuimam | also, is there a reason why most of my addons didn't load when i switched to a char on a different realm? |
| 23:27.28 | Dagmar | No you don't. |
| 23:27.30 | Dagmar | You have a 2Tb disk. |
| 23:27.35 | cbreak | full with stuff |
| 23:27.43 | cbreak | (2 x 1tb) |
| 23:27.43 | Dagmar | I have a 2Tb disk, but I definitely have half a terabyte of crap on it |
| 23:27.53 | Lopeppeppy | shifuimam, did you enable them on that realm for that character? |
| 23:28.00 | Fisker | why wouldn't i be airtonix ? |
| 23:28.01 | shifuimam | i don't know. |
| 23:28.21 | shifuimam | i wasn't aware i needed to enable them on a per-realm basis |
| 23:28.31 | shifuimam | i assumed anything in \Interface\Addons loaded when the client loaded |
| 23:28.54 | ArrowmasterClass | by default yeah everything is loaded |
| 23:28.55 | Dagmar | Nah |
| 23:29.11 | Fisker | sweet |
| 23:29.13 | Dagmar | Once you change the "All" setting, it seems to stop assuming new toons want everythin loaded |
| 23:29.13 | Fisker | issue is now fixed on US |
| 23:29.13 | shifuimam | ArrowmasterClass: well, 95% of my addons didn't load |
| 23:29.22 | Lopeppeppy | Yes, but you *can* specify, so just go see. :) |
| 23:29.33 | shifuimam | where do i specify this? |
| 23:29.36 | ArrowmasterClass | check the addons window then |
| 23:29.41 | ArrowmasterClass | character select screen |
| 23:29.45 | cbreak | out of date addons? :) |
| 23:29.47 | ArrowmasterClass | big button labeled addons |
| 23:29.53 | ArrowmasterClass | oh yeah thats probably it |
| 23:29.58 | shifuimam | cbreak: they're all installed new as of last night |
| 23:30.01 | kd3 | woot! |
| 23:30.01 | shifuimam | i just started playing wow :P |
| 23:30.03 | kd3 | copy went through |
| 23:30.08 | cbreak | doesn't matter when they are installed |
| 23:30.09 | Fisker | i hate you kd3 |
| 23:30.10 | Lopeppeppy | Yay, kd3!!!! |
| 23:30.16 | cbreak | it matters what the addon states it was made for |
| 23:30.17 | Lopeppeppy | Whatcha playing? (Peppy came late to the convo) |
| 23:30.28 | Fisker | PTR Lopeppeppy |
| 23:30.28 | shifuimam | huh. well damn. |
| 23:30.39 | Fisker | Blizzard made this new silly system |
| 23:30.44 | kd3 | and the premade went through too |
| 23:30.49 | kd3 | now to see if I can log in |
| 23:30.51 | kd3 | grrs at bnet |
| 23:30.56 | shifuimam | okay at least my addons loaded now...i did not know i needed to do that |
| 23:31.06 | Lopeppeppy | SC2 then I take it. Excellent! |
| 23:31.09 | shifuimam | that still doesn't resolve the issue of where the hell the settings for my main char have been stored so i can at least try to copy them |
| 23:31.12 | kd3 | nah. the ptr |
| 23:31.16 | Fisker | i hope your login details are different, like for example a authenticator etc. |
| 23:31.25 | Fisker | why doesn't Lopeppeppy like me? :( |
| 23:31.38 | kd3 | seh:raise_exception |
| 23:31.39 | kd3 | woot |
| 23:31.41 | kd3 | sighs |
| 23:31.45 | Lopeppeppy | shifuimam, check under the general saved variables, and under the character specific variables. But it's not always as "easy" as just copying crap. |
| 23:32.03 | shifuimam | yeah, that's the problem. the general and char specific savevariables.lua are empty |
| 23:32.19 | shifuimam | there are a few $addon.lua files, but not nearly as many of those as i have addons that are configured |
| 23:32.20 | ArrowmasterClass | use windows search |
| 23:32.27 | shifuimam | blah |
| 23:32.39 | Lopeppeppy | Maybe you didn't save the variables properly in the first place? Or if you are on Vista, they are stored in the public users thingie area space of doom. |
| 23:32.54 | Lopeppeppy | Dost thou Vista? |
| 23:32.57 | shifuimam | yeah :\ |
| 23:32.59 | Dagmar | That folder may or may *not* show up in the search if you have it still hiding hidden files from you |
| 23:33.16 | shifuimam | also why might some addons not let me load profiles from other realms? |
| 23:33.17 | Lopeppeppy | There's a thread about WoW and Vista on the UI/Macros forum. Go and read it over, it tells you where your saved variables got shoved. |
| 23:33.23 | shifuimam | SUPER..thanks |
| 23:33.43 | Lopeppeppy | Thank Lunessa, who by the grace of his patient self, wrote it. |
| 23:33.54 | shifuimam | i'm assuming you mean the official wow forums |
| 23:34.13 | Lopeppeppy | Yup. |
| 23:34.58 | Fisker | http://db.mmo-champion.com/s/78935/horatios-sunglasses/ |
| 23:34.59 | A-KO | C:\Users\Username\AppData\LocalLow\VirtualStore\Program Files\World of Warcraft\ |
| 23:35.01 | Fisker | YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAH |
| 23:35.16 | Esamynn|work | Fisker: PTR? |
| 23:35.27 | Fisker | nah |
| 23:35.28 | shifuimam | This could be bad.. |
| 23:35.29 | Fisker | beta |
| 23:35.39 | Fisker | well it's probably also in the PTR build |
| 23:35.40 | Fisker | who knows |
| 23:35.47 | foxlit | Watch it be used by an NPC |
| 23:35.49 | kd3 | wth, 'no active world of warcraft accounts attached' |
| 23:35.54 | kd3 | grrs |
| 23:36.03 | Esamynn|work | oh, I didn't see the link |
| 23:36.08 | Dagmar | What's so special about this guy Horatio? |
| 23:36.09 | Esamynn|work | kd3: need to copy a character |
| 23:36.12 | Lopeppeppy | cuddles kd3. This sounds maddening. She does not want. |
| 23:36.14 | kd3 | char copied |
| 23:36.17 | Esamynn|work | oh |
| 23:36.19 | Esamynn|work | :( |
| 23:36.22 | foxlit | http://db.mmo-champion.com/s/78937/infectious-vomit/ << hi2u, not one but two jormungar 2.0 |
| 23:36.25 | Fisker | slaps kd3 around a bit with a large trout |
| 23:36.48 | shifuimam | so supposedly the fact that WoW is not installed to C:\Program files.... should preclude my savevariables from being somewhere wonky |
| 23:36.58 | Dagmar | Not really. |
| 23:37.07 | foxlit | Although perhaps not |
| 23:37.10 | Fisker | http://db.mmo-champion.com/s/78939/elementium-bulwark/ <-wonder if that's for some cataclysm legendary :o |
| 23:37.50 | Dagmar | I'm still unimpressed with that name |
| 23:38.05 | ArrowmasterClass | i thought that was something from classic? |
| 23:38.46 | Cide| | elementium bulwark? nope |
| 23:38.46 | *** join/#wowuidev nobin (~nobin@173-21-125-240.client.mchsi.com) |
| 23:38.56 | ArrowmasterClass | http://www.wowhead.com/item=19349 |
| 23:39.12 | Cide| | I guess the names coincide yeah |
| 23:39.26 | Cide| | but there's nothing about spell reflection there |
| 23:39.29 | NightHawkTheSane | the thing Fisker linked is a spell/ability |
| 23:39.33 | Fisker | well we're potentially meeting nefarian as well as deathwing again |
| 23:39.38 | Fisker | well not deathwing again |
| 23:39.42 | Fisker | but you get what i'm saying |
| 23:39.46 | Cide| | no we don't |
| 23:39.49 | Cide| | explain |
| 23:39.51 | Fisker | moar elementium to be found and used for legendaries |
| 23:39.56 | Fisker | geddit? |
| 23:40.15 | ArrowmasterClass | KILL THE GOBLINS! DONT LET THEM ESCAPE! |
| 23:40.16 | Dagmar | Just waiting to see the rare spawn "sparkletanium" and "rarefloriums" appear in the harvesting lists |
| 23:40.40 | Esamynn|work | haha |
| 23:40.40 | Fisker | kd3 |
| 23:40.41 | Fisker | document |
| 23:40.43 | Fisker | now |
| 23:40.49 | shifuimam | freaking fail...all it's finding are my RoM savevariables.lua :P |
| 23:40.50 | kd3 | not til I can actually log in |
| 23:40.53 | NightHawkTheSane | i want to mine rareflorium |
| 23:40.56 | WobWork | ArrowmasterClass: rofl, <3 |
| 23:40.57 | kd3 | and figure out what's wrong with wine |
| 23:41.01 | kd3 | and why blizz wants to use ldap |
| 23:41.09 | WobWork | ArrowmasterClass: isn't it 'Chase the Goblin'? |
| 23:41.12 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: Sorry, ubermaster herbalism only |
| 23:41.33 | Fisker | ldap for what kd3 ? |
| 23:41.48 | kd3 | err:module:import_dll Library WLDAP32.dll (which is needed by L"C:\\Program Files\\World of Warcraft Public Test\\Battle.net.dll") not found |
| 23:41.50 | kd3 | you tell me |
| 23:41.58 | kd3 | ^trying to log on to the ptr |
| 23:42.01 | Dagmar | ldap for great justice! |
| 23:42.22 | Fisker | you gotta be shitting me |
| 23:42.48 | Fisker | What is that for, importing of AD-contacts into your Real ID list? |
| 23:43.54 | Dagmar | They probably just built RealID atop LDAP |
| 23:43.58 | Esamynn|work | kd3: they are out to get you |
| 23:44.12 | kd3 | that much I'm not worried about; they already have my CC and street address |
| 23:44.25 | Fisker | It's an easy fix though |
| 23:44.28 | Fisker | just format and install windows |
| 23:44.53 | Esamynn|work | ~lart Fisker |
| 23:44.53 | purl | installs a bad bootloader on Fisker and turns Fisker into a brick |
| 23:45.02 | Esamynn|work | ~botsnack |
| 23:45.02 | purl | aw, gee, Esamynn|work |
| 23:45.30 | Dagmar | Esamynn: Probably easier to flash Zune firmware onto him |
| 23:45.30 | Fisker | purl, gtfo |
| 23:45.30 | purl | Sorry sir, I won't bother you anymore. |
| 23:45.37 | kd3 | oh, great. it's rebill date. no wonder the forums won't let me log in |
| 23:45.51 | Fisker | l2p kd3 |
| 23:46.05 | Fisker | just renew your sub |
| 23:46.27 | kd3 | tabs open his bank account |
| 23:46.29 | Esamynn|work | ~lart Fisker |
| 23:46.29 | purl | grabs a large, mis-shapened log, with squirrels, and beats Fisker until only the nuts remain ... which the squirrels run off with |
| 23:46.35 | Fisker | purl, gtfo |
| 23:46.35 | purl | Sorry sir, I won't bother you anymore. |
| 23:46.39 | ScytheBlade1 | ha |
| 23:46.41 | cbreak | I heard that many americans protested against RealID about a year ago |
| 23:46.43 | Esamynn|work | ~fishslap Fisker |
| 23:46.50 | WobWork | aha! |
| 23:46.54 | WobWork | Catch that Goblin! |
| 23:47.57 | WobWork | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSIB5wC9xHI |
| 23:48.34 | WobWork | it's very danny elfmanic |
| 23:48.47 | WobWork | good ol' Skaven |
| 23:52.26 | *** part/#wowuidev Esamynn|work (~cc32712b@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Esamynn) |
| 23:54.42 | Fisker | DELETE FUCKING EVERYTHING |
| 23:56.01 | Fisker | This is correct, with the exception of SC2 Beta. There will not be any "cross-game" chat for testing on PTR to SC2 Beta. Once the system is live though, you'll be able to talk to SC2 live. |
| 23:56.02 | Fisker | You will be able to test cross-server functionality within WoW though on the PTR. |
| 23:56.02 | Fisker | fail |
| 23:56.34 | Torhal | Fisker: I will cross-server report you. |
| 23:57.23 | foxlit | Torhal: you'd have to cross-server friend him first |
| 23:57.28 | foxlit | Are you prepared to take that step? |
