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| 00:21.28 | cbreak | Danny-xh5ij2: what are you talking about? |
| 00:21.42 | Arrowmaster | probably wowace/curseforge |
| 00:22.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Proditor (proditor@c80-217-71-230.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 00:22.56 | cbreak | git's an scm, it is not related with any packager |
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| 00:31.31 | Danny-xh5ij2 | Sorry, I was alt-tabbed. |
| 00:31.54 | Danny-xh5ij2 | I'm aware, that was simply the only change I've made recently before this started. |
| 00:32.27 | Danny-xh5ij2 | Everytime I push a commit or tag something, when the packager goes to generate the file, it regenerates new files for all tags that ever existed. |
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| 00:48.03 | Cide | why so busy Shirik :( |
| 00:52.57 | Gintaro_ | Why does Games for windows live suck so much |
| 00:53.24 | Bruners | Gintaro_: install linux |
| 00:55.38 | eidolarr | that is such a bad solution to games sucking |
| 01:02.00 | Gnarfoz | eidolarr: why? no games, no troubles... ^^ |
| 01:03.36 | eidolarr | hehe |
| 01:04.30 | eidolarr | i wish quake live worked in chrome and had better play-with-friends options |
| 01:04.33 | eidolarr | then i would be in heaven |
| 01:04.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~cide@c213-100-51-33.swipnet.se) |
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| 01:04.48 | Shirik | ~wiki User:Jfrakes8 |
| 01:05.33 | Arrowmaster | Danny-xh5ij2: are your tags real tags in git or are they just branches? when you convert from svn to git i know git-svn doesnt actually make any real tags |
| 01:05.36 | eidolarr | is that the guy from the moderator banning video? |
| 01:06.05 | alestane | I still maintain that rendering a problem inapplicable is not the same as solving it, Gnarfoz. |
| 01:06.18 | Arrowmaster | also unless things have changed in your repo for every tag it shouldnt be able to regenerate them |
| 01:06.49 | Gnarfoz | alestane: I maintain that it was not I who suggested said "solution" |
| 01:07.15 | Danny-xh5ij2 | I *believe* they are tags. They do not show up as branches. |
| 01:08.11 | Arrowmaster | whats the project name? |
| 01:08.16 | Danny-xh5ij2 | expeller |
| 01:13.55 | Thunder_Child | lol @ the wow tactics app for iphone |
| 01:14.08 | Thunder_Child | the facebook integration is :( |
| 01:14.15 | cbreak | a big picture with "stay out of fire/slime/ice/..."? |
| 01:14.49 | Thunder_Child | seems resonable |
| 01:17.05 | Thunder_Child | the app i mean |
| 01:21.03 | eidolarr | i wish emacs had a web browsing mode |
| 01:21.21 | cbreak | firefox has a vim mode |
| 01:21.23 | Corrodias | don't say that too loud, eidolarr, they will probably add it if it doesn't already hae one. |
| 01:21.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Lozon (~nl@CPE0018f85e6502-CM001a66710456.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 01:21.47 | eidolarr | i think it needs a new rendering engine first |
| 01:22.18 | Corrodias | emacs? i was half joking, but all it renders is text, doesn't it? |
| 01:22.32 | Corrodias | unix doesn't have editors that can handle images! |
| 01:22.39 | cbreak | text is the most important part of a web page |
| 01:23.00 | Corrodias | depends on the page. an image host wouldn't get you very far on a text browser. |
| 01:23.09 | Danny-xh5ij2 | Render the images as ascii art. I recall seeing a video player that did that once, hilarity. |
| 01:23.26 | cbreak | mplayer. |
| 01:23.36 | cbreak | with -vo aa or -vo caca |
| 01:23.56 | Danny-xh5ij2 | The fact that it was actually watchable always impressed me. |
| 01:26.59 | eidolarr | alrightyi just spent 3 minutes playing with -vo caca |
| 01:27.03 | eidolarr | can you make it bigger? |
| 01:27.05 | eidolarr | it is excellent |
| 01:27.17 | Danny-xh5ij2 | lol |
| 01:27.52 | cbreak | you can |
| 01:27.58 | cbreak | -vf scale |
| 01:28.02 | cbreak | maybe -geometry |
| 01:30.11 | Cide | Shirik: ping |
| 01:30.37 | batrick | Cide: Pong |
| 01:34.14 | Gnarfoz | <cbreak> firefox has a vim mode <-- vimperator! ^^ |
| 01:34.31 | cbreak | yes. it's surprisingly comfortable |
| 01:38.22 | Shirik | Cide: pong |
| 01:38.23 | Shirik | bah |
| 01:38.25 | Gnarfoz | anyone know what the little lock icon that's overlayed over some files on Windows 7 indicates? |
| 01:39.27 | cbreak | DRM? |
| 01:39.43 | Corrodias | no, it's... um... |
| 01:39.43 | Kalroth | the only overlay icons i got is SVN |
| 01:39.49 | Shirik | um, zip files? |
| 01:39.53 | Gnarfoz | it's homegroup sharing |
| 01:39.58 | Kalroth | ew |
| 01:39.58 | Gnarfoz | so nevermind |
| 01:40.04 | Gnarfoz | it means only I have write access to it |
| 01:40.08 | Corrodias | that can't be right |
| 01:40.15 | Gnarfoz | (I'm the only win7 box on this net anyway) |
| 01:41.41 | Corrodias | the pseudo-existant compatibility folders like "documents and settings" have it. user-specific folders have it. i suppose it just means that there are limited permissions, by some standard. |
| 01:42.05 | Gnarfoz | like I said, only I have write permissions on those files |
| 01:42.17 | Corrodias | not directly related to sharing, though |
| 01:42.29 | Danny-xh5ij2 | Arrowmaster: Did you see anything wrong? |
| 01:42.37 | Gnarfoz | well, windows *is* a multi-user OS |
| 01:43.00 | Gnarfoz | I guess they might call this local sharing or whatever, I'm not sure ;) |
| 01:43.03 | cbreak | there are more than one windows user? |
| 01:43.07 | Corrodias | but homegroups are about inter-computer sharing |
| 01:45.12 | Gnarfoz | Corrodias: don't ask me, it's in the homegroup menu. :D |
| 01:46.16 | Corrodias | where is that menu? |
| 01:48.14 | Gnarfoz | Corrodias: context menu on a file, sharing |
| 01:48.38 | Corrodias | ah, i don't have that. must be only if you have a homegroup set up. |
| 01:49.14 | Corrodias | are you sure you mean a file, or do you mean a folder? |
| 01:49.37 | Corrodias | i've got "share with" on the context menu of a folder |
| 01:50.13 | Gnarfoz | how would I confuse a file with a folder? yes, a file. :D |
| 01:50.34 | Gnarfoz | also, I just left my homegroup and the menu entry is still there |
| 01:51.03 | Gnarfoz | hm. |
| 01:51.08 | Gnarfoz | my Users folder is shared? |
| 01:51.33 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO|iphone (~akoiphone@166.137.11.44) |
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| 01:52.58 | Gnarfoz | wtf |
| 01:53.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~cide@c213-100-51-33.swipnet.se) |
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| 01:54.06 | Gnarfoz | this seems totally broken: from a file somewhere in My Pictures, I choose "share with specific people", choose only myself, click ok, and now I have a network share on my Users folder (so, several levels up) with full r/w permissions for "Everyone" o_O |
| 01:54.43 | Gnarfoz | (nevermind that NTFS permissions would still disallow access to non-authenticated users, but wtf) |
| 01:57.23 | *** join/#wowuidev nobin (~nobin@164.145.103.97.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 01:58.02 | Dagmar | Thankfully those anre't suppose to flow down |
| 01:58.39 | Dagmar | ...but I'd still throw in a joe account and test it |
| 01:58.45 | Dagmar | Ah don't trust that winders |
| 02:13.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 02:18.36 | Kraps | http://www.thedailyblink.com/2010/04/classic-periodicals-9-druids/ |
| 02:19.16 | kd3 | lmao |
| 02:24.00 | Dagmar | Hmm... Corps of Engineers unofficially thinks I might be able to fish from my balcony tomorrow night |
| 02:24.11 | kd3 | uh-oh |
| 02:24.35 | Thunder_Child | makes sure to stock up on beer |
| 02:24.41 | Dagmar | Yeah good thing I moved my scooter to a higher place in the parking lot before people take all those spaces |
| 02:25.17 | Dagmar | Thunder_Child: Well, I don't drink beer. |
| 02:25.33 | Gnarfoz | a tragedy |
| 02:25.36 | Thunder_Child | Dagmar: something to enjoy the fishing with |
| 02:25.37 | Dagmar | I suppose hte Jim Beam, Jack Daniels, sake, PGA, scotch, vodka, and rum will have to do. |
| 02:25.55 | Dagmar | The cabinets over my fridge are pretty well stocked. |
| 02:26.54 | Dagmar | They said on the news Nashville set a new record for the largest amount of rain in a day todya. |
| 02:27.00 | Dagmar | ...there's more rain coming. |
| 02:27.25 | Dagmar | It's just a matter of time before everywhere else that flooded (like most of the south of the county) drains into that river. |
| 02:29.49 | tekkub | IT GONNA RAIN |
| 02:31.14 | Dagmar | Dude, we got eleven inches and then some |
| 02:31.35 | Dagmar | ...and this is a place that builds a new lake every fifteen years just to keep ahead. |
| 02:32.09 | Kraps | blasted lands http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2010/april/ss1309.jpg |
| 02:32.09 | Dagmar | Some idjits even managed to drown themselves in their SUV less than a quarter mile from the shopping mall |
| 02:32.34 | kd3 | wow; that sounds like the crap we got last september in atlanta |
| 02:32.37 | Dagmar | Kraps: din'jew paste that this morning? |
| 02:32.48 | kd3 | is still waiting for one road repair job as a result of the flood to finish |
| 02:32.51 | Kraps | Dagmar: no, just got on |
| 02:33.03 | Dagmar | Ah someone did. It's purty with that new water |
| 02:34.12 | Gnarfoz | even though it's not reflecting WMOs apparently |
| 02:34.17 | Gnarfoz | at least not in that shot |
| 02:34.31 | Dagmar | Shows roads that are flooded out, and TDOT is still catching up since I know twice as many places that are flooded and impassable than they're showing: http://ww2.tdot.state.tn.us/tsw/smartmap.htm?city=Nashville |
| 02:34.49 | Gnarfoz | (the water's reflecting a tree that should be obscured by the bridge, and indeed, the bridge itself is not reflected at all) |
| 02:35.06 | Dagmar | Gnarfoz: That's because they're adding mimics in Cata |
| 02:35.36 | Dagmar | Step on that bridge and it'll eatya |
| 02:35.54 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: yum |
| 02:35.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (~Wobin@203-158-35-41.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 02:36.07 | Kraps | are bgs gonna suck do to childrens week? |
| 02:36.12 | kd3 | oh ye gods |
| 02:36.19 | kd3 | mimics? in wow? |
| 02:36.24 | kd3 | cringes at the very thought |
| 02:36.31 | Dagmar | That would completely pwn as a replacement for loot chests |
| 02:36.51 | Dagmar | spesh if they were the beefy and voracious kind like in Torchlight |
| 02:37.42 | *** join/#wowuidev amro (~amro@41.102.212.218) |
| 02:40.59 | Wobin | http://community.livejournal.com/ontd_political/6060936.html |
| 02:41.05 | Wobin | ahah, awesome =) |
| 02:45.20 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-68-38-51-80.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 02:45.57 | Wobin | I just imagine them with a camera going around to all the guys |
| 02:46.14 | Wobin | "Hey, we're doing a music video, please say this into the camera: "Ooooh You Touch My Talala!" |
| 02:47.06 | Dagmar | Did you notice the pack of cigarettes? |
| 02:47.18 | Dagmar | "Smoking can reveal hidden laser traps" |
| 02:47.23 | Corrodias | heheheh |
| 02:47.37 | Wobin | Now there's a PSA I can get behind |
| 02:50.06 | Wobin | The Caramell one is great |
| 02:50.20 | Dagmar | The subtitling is stellar. :) |
| 02:54.02 | Wobin | I'm impressed at the amount of choreography required for some of these |
| 02:54.56 | Corrodias | http://hackedirl.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/129129340323656836.jpg |
| 02:58.21 | Kraps | hah Corrodias |
| 03:05.18 | Wobin | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsnlO-hpc_8&feature=player_embedded |
| 03:05.23 | Wobin | not just the boys =P |
| 03:12.56 | Gnarfoz | http://www.220.ro/videoclipuri/Bad-Romance-Fara-Instrumente/XR25MpHFV5/ ^^ |
| 03:15.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (~chatzilla@99-92-174-69.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:18.35 | Cide | Shirik: ping? |
| 03:21.28 | Cide | :( |
| 03:23.28 | Wobin | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQWW1Qp5O_A&feature=player_embedded |
| 03:23.30 | Wobin | ahaha |
| 03:27.48 | dusky | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0aj1RmDzcQ runescape. |
| 03:27.51 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 03:31.48 | Cide | ~seen Shirik |
| 03:31.50 | purl | shirik is currently on #sc2mapster #norganna #wowuidev #wowace. Has said a total of 136 messages. Is idling for 1h 52m 1s, last said: 'um, zip files?'. |
| 03:40.13 | Aqua | i wonder if anyone will product big game hunters for starcraft 2 |
| 03:48.59 | *** join/#wowuidev eidolarr (~zls@c-71-61-178-129.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 03:54.47 | Adys | jnwhiteh: poke |
| 04:11.32 | Thrae | I swear cats can teleport. |
| 04:13.29 | Thunder_Child | they can |
| 04:13.54 | Thrae | Cats have Stealth (Prowl) for realz. |
| 04:14.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (~Kandoko@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 04:17.12 | Torhal | Shirik: ping - spam on WoWI. |
| 04:17.20 | Shirik | hi Cide |
| 04:17.24 | Shirik | Torhal, URL |
| 04:17.30 | Shirik | I was playing SC2 Cide :( |
| 04:17.32 | Shirik | you weren't around |
| 04:17.32 | Torhal | www.wowinterface.com/forums/showpost.php?p=186801&postcount=4 |
| 04:17.52 | Torhal | Damn Chromium - they need to fix that "hey, let's strip http://" shit |
| 04:17.58 | Adys | they have |
| 04:17.59 | Adys | update |
| 04:18.06 | Torhal | I did a couple of days ago. Hehe |
| 04:18.25 | Adys | 5.0.375.23 (Official Build 45554) dev |
| 04:18.31 | Adys | http stripping has been removed |
| 04:18.44 | Shirik | baninated |
| 04:18.46 | Shirik | thanks |
| 04:18.52 | Torhal | Funny thing is, on the dev blog they were pretty vehement that it was staying |
| 04:18.55 | Torhal | Shirik: Danke |
| 04:18.55 | Thrae | Alright, so I have like 50+ (and growing) programs I want to run another program automatically when they run. Anyone know of a light program that can do this? |
| 04:21.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Osagasu (~Creek@67-197-1-37.rh1.dyn.cm.comporium.net) |
| 04:22.11 | Thrae | I'm reading up on how to do it with VBScript but that's annoying =/ |
| 04:22.28 | Adys | Thrae: flowchart plx |
| 04:22.35 | Torhal | Adys: Yikes. I'm using 5.0.375.9 |
| 04:22.39 | Torhal | updates. |
| 04:22.42 | Thrae | Adys: Flowchart? |
| 04:23.20 | Adys | For that line |
| 04:23.20 | Cide | Shirik: wtf?! |
| 04:24.54 | Thrae | Adys: Example -- foo.exe is successfully loaded into memory. <trace program> detects this and runs bar.exe based on my configuration. foo.exe leaves memory (quit, crash, etc.). <trace program> detects this and tells bar.exe to exit. |
| 04:26.40 | Thrae | Adys: It would be even cooler if I could just detect any D3D/OpenGL 3D usage, but that's a bit different. |
| 04:27.05 | Adys | on windows ive no idea |
| 04:28.20 | Cide | oh come on Shirik |
| 04:28.23 | Thrae | Hmmm maybe RivaTuner has one... |
| 04:28.24 | Cide | you keep going afk on me~~ |
| 04:38.58 | Shirik | Cide I'm playing games |
| 04:39.05 | Cide | :( |
| 04:39.09 | Shirik | you went afk! |
| 04:39.11 | Shirik | well |
| 04:39.13 | Shirik | you went offline |
| 04:39.15 | Cide | you went afk for days! |
| 04:39.16 | Shirik | so I thought you went to bed |
| 04:39.24 | Cide | nah, irc crashed |
| 04:39.49 | Cide | can I privately tell you the secret to sc2 now? |
| 04:45.46 | Cide | guess not |
| 04:45.50 | Cide | you must hate me |
| 04:45.51 | Cide | good night! |
| 04:47.19 | Iriel | Speaking of SC2 - I actually won a game! |
| 04:47.37 | Cide | congrats :) earned the achievement as well then I suppose? |
| 04:47.51 | Thunder_Child | gratz Iriel |
| 04:48.09 | Iriel | Yes, the you-dont-completely-suck-then-(relatiely-speaking) achievement |
| 04:52.48 | Adys | http://source.winehq.org/git/wine.git/?a=blob;f=programs/winefile/winefile.c |
| 04:52.55 | Adys | This here is the definition of bitrot |
| 04:53.15 | Adys | > 90% of the file is from one commit 9 years ago |
| 04:54.01 | Adys | indent is completely screwed up, a lot of the code is just useless |
| 04:54.11 | Adys | half the menu items pop up a "Not yet implemented" dialogue |
| 04:54.29 | Adys | 5000 lines of hell |
| 05:00.07 | Adys | gotos all over the place. |
| 05:01.30 | eidolarr | how come no one fixes is |
| 05:03.33 | Adys | Nobody wants to sift through dead code like that |
| 05:04.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan| (~pancake@cpe-174-098-002-214.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 05:09.28 | ZorbaBeta | also, presumably it works well enough that people generally don't have to muck with it. |
| 05:09.36 | Adys | it's a horrible program |
| 05:10.55 | Esamynn | grats Iriel |
| 05:13.35 | ZorbaBeta | I mean that file specifically, not wine in general |
| 05:15.25 | Adys | ZorbaBeta: i meant winefile |
| 05:15.30 | Adys | which is the wine file manager |
| 05:15.48 | Adys | apparently theres a gsoc to recode one from scratch. crossing fingers it happens |
| 05:15.52 | Arrowmaster | people use the wine file manager? |
| 05:15.57 | ZorbaBeta | ah, okay. in that case I've never used it and don't actually know what it does ;) |
| 05:15.58 | Adys | No, but wine does |
| 05:16.09 | Adys | for any call to the explorer |
| 05:16.21 | Adys | ZorbaBeta: try "winefile" :p |
| 05:16.23 | ZorbaBeta | well, again, maybe it works well enough that people generally don't have to muck with it? |
| 05:16.46 | Adys | see my previous comment, it's a horrible program |
| 05:18.35 | ZorbaBeta | right, but if *nobody uses it*, except for a few minor cases where it performs adequately, then maybe it's doing exactly what it should |
| 05:20.32 | Adys | i dont think you quite understand |
| 05:21.39 | Jamash | people *try* to use it |
| 05:21.45 | Adys | ZorbaBeta: http://db.mmo-champion.com/adys/winefile.png this is winefile |
| 05:22.02 | ZorbaBeta | what I'm getting at here is that I've used wine moderately often and never once have I said "damn, this winefile thing is awful". in fact, out of the problems I've had, none of them have had anything to do with wine's explorer replacement (I didn't even know it had one) |
| 05:22.06 | Jamash | aka WELCOME TO WINDOWS 3 |
| 05:22.15 | ZorbaBeta | personally I just used ubuntu's filesystem interface |
| 05:22.20 | Jamash | ENJOY THE BUFFET |
| 05:22.30 | ZorbaBeta | I wasn't even aware wine had an equivalent, I've simply never needed it. |
| 05:22.32 | Arrowmaster | ZorbaBeta: ubuntu doesnt have a filesystem interface |
| 05:22.33 | Adys | ZorbaBeta: Windows program require winefile |
| 05:22.47 | Adys | programs even |
| 05:22.53 | Adys | it's the dropin replacement for explorer |
| 05:23.00 | ZorbaBeta | I have never seen that interface in the entire time I've been using Wine :P For at least some people, it *never shows up*. |
| 05:23.05 | Arrowmaster | ZorbaBeta: you probably mean gnome's or kde's filesystem interface |
| 05:23.06 | Adys | ofc |
| 05:23.30 | ZorbaBeta | and that's all I'm saying - that the reason it hasn't been fixed may simply be that it hasn't been as important as other things. It might just be Good Enough. |
| 05:23.32 | Adys | but if you use programs that invoke explorer, you WILL see it |
| 05:23.34 | Jamash | xfce >>>> kde|gnome |
| 05:23.41 | ZorbaBeta | arrow, I mean the interface that shows up when you install Ubuntu, obviously. |
| 05:24.05 | Adys | that involves for example most archive managers like 7z |
| 05:24.08 | ZorbaBeta | I know you're being cute and pedantic, but the intention is very clear and all you're doing is purposefully misunderstanding :P |
| 05:24.44 | durcyn | the next person to say "filesystem interface" gets their fingers cut off. |
| 05:24.50 | ZorbaBeta | adys, most people I know who use Wine tend to lean on Linux programs when there's an option, and would just use the Linux 7z equivalent |
| 05:25.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (amarande@68-191-37-155.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 05:25.22 | Adys | Amarande: say "filesystem interface" |
| 05:25.30 | Arrowmaster | ZorbaBeta: no, im proving a point, ubuntu is just a distro, although they customize the fuck out of everything and break it all to hell they still dont have any unique applications of their own afaik |
| 05:25.31 | Amarande | "filesystem interface" ? |
| 05:25.32 | ZorbaBeta | cuts off Adys's fingers |
| 05:25.41 | Adys | ZorbaBeta: I know, but thats not the point |
| 05:25.49 | ZorbaBeta | luckily amarande is safe because durcyn never mentioned what would happen to the person after the next |
| 05:26.00 | Adys | durcyn has me on ignore |
| 05:26.11 | durcyn | i don't ignore people, i just threaten to cut off appendages |
| 05:26.20 | ZorbaBeta | I don't think durcyn said anything about "the next person he saw say etc etc" :) |
| 05:26.21 | Arrowmaster | 7z has a linux version btw, nobody sane would ever try to run it in wine |
| 05:26.36 | Adys | oh well, guess I'll never be able to masturbate while thinking of Fisker anymore |
| 05:26.42 | durcyn | there's p7zip, can xz-utils / lzmadec handle the 7z wrapper? |
| 05:26.42 | Adys | Arrowmaster: it was an example... |
| 05:26.46 | Amarande | um |
| 05:26.47 | ZorbaBeta | arrow, but that's irrelevant. I said "ubuntu's interface", which pretty clearly implies "the interface used by ubuntu" |
| 05:26.47 | Adys | i dont use 7z on linux |
| 05:26.48 | durcyn | i've never actually tried it with them |
| 05:26.53 | Adys | er |
| 05:26.55 | Amarande | Adys, am I in #wowuidev, or did I end up in trade chat? |
| 05:26.56 | Adys | win 7z on linux* |
| 05:27.02 | Amarande | it's sounding like trade chat to me. |
| 05:27.02 | Amarande | heh |
| 05:27.07 | ZorbaBeta | I say "curse's file upload" despite the fact that it's entirely likely curse is using some other library for file uploading, like, say, apache |
| 05:27.07 | durcyn | i assume it's the same encoding, hrm |
| 05:27.08 | Jamash | except ubuntu has multiple interfaces |
| 05:27.38 | Arrowmaster | the .7z file format isnt the same as the .lzma or .xz |
| 05:27.46 | Jamash | there's no "ubuntu file browser" the way there's a "windows file browser" |
| 05:27.52 | Adys | point is there are a lot of windows programs that spawn explorer |
| 05:27.59 | Adys | this is why winefile was needed and made |
| 05:28.12 | Adys | however, the program itself is shit |
| 05:28.15 | Amarande | why can't everyone just use .tar.bz2 like real men :( |
| 05:28.19 | ZorbaBeta | adys, to be honest, I'm not sure I've seen any in years :) the closest I've seen is the file open dialog |
| 05:28.33 | Adys | ZorbaBeta: any bittorrent app! |
| 05:28.39 | Adys | firefox |
| 05:28.44 | Adys | chrome, so on |
| 05:28.49 | ZorbaBeta | I know there are many programs *capable* of doing so |
| 05:28.51 | Adys | any program with an "Open containing folder" |
| 05:28.53 | Arrowmaster | but there are many linux archive managers and most of them can make use of optional programs if they are installed to add support for handling additional formats |
| 05:28.58 | ZorbaBeta | but I personally never actually *do so* with them |
| 05:29.06 | ZorbaBeta | and, I mean, who's running bittorrent/firefox/chrome via Wine? |
| 05:29.10 | Jamash | good question |
| 05:29.13 | ZorbaBeta | (okay chrome maybe, but bittorrent or firefox?) |
| 05:29.14 | Adys | utorrent? a lot of people |
| 05:29.16 | Amarande | Zorba: bads |
| 05:29.36 | Adys | and i myself used firefox on wine for a while until chrome came out |
| 05:29.37 | Jamash | some websites refuse to work with linux firefox but will work with windows firefox |
| 05:29.39 | Arrowmaster | Adys: those people shouldnt be considered sane either |
| 05:29.45 | ZorbaBeta | jamash, how odd |
| 05:29.47 | Amarande | speaking of bads, how did wow degenerate to the point where you have to have everything EJ-ified before you even start raiding or half the raiders will consider you a bad? |
| 05:29.47 | Adys | because LINUX FIREFOX IS A FUCKING DISASTER |
| 05:29.49 | Jamash | yeah I know |
| 05:29.56 | durcyn | linux firefox is fine, you're godamn insane. |
| 05:30.01 | Jamash | what's wrong with linux firefox |
| 05:30.03 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (~Miranda@85.108.34.95.customer.cdi.no) |
| 05:30.04 | Amarande | hell for some classes sometimes it seems like there's a ONE TRUE WAY TO PLAY THIS CLASS AS X ROLE |
| 05:30.08 | Adys | everything |
| 05:30.16 | Thunder_Child | oh Adys |
| 05:30.17 | Arrowmaster | the only problems with linux firefox are some of the menu placements |
| 05:30.24 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, because for most classes, there are very few reasonably optimal specs |
| 05:30.30 | Jamash | I barely notice the difference between linux and windows firefox |
| 05:30.35 | Amarande | Jamash: the fact that adobe's flash plugin tends to crash it so readily? |
| 05:30.42 | ZorbaBeta | and diverging from the spec, minus the half-dozen floating points most optimal specs have, is a strict reduction in your value to the raid |
| 05:30.43 | Adys | broken gtk theming, terribleness all over any file operation |
| 05:30.45 | Adys | its SLOW AS SHIT |
| 05:30.46 | Jamash | that's a problem with flash, not a problem with firefox |
| 05:30.53 | Adys | wine firefox was faster than native firefox |
| 05:31.04 | Jamash | your native firefox installation is broken |
| 05:31.16 | Adys | it's nonexistant, thanks to google |
| 05:31.23 | Jamash | chrome is bad, for baddies |
| 05:31.26 | durcyn | anyway, there's a name for people who only use linux for wine, but i can't repeat it in polite company |
| 05:31.29 | Jamash | who don't know how to use firefox |
| 05:31.41 | Amarande | Zorba: it gets to the point that sometimes it seems like there are entire trees that are regarded as only for bads to spec deep into |
| 05:31.42 | Adys | durcyn: what do you have against wine? |
| 05:31.58 | Arrowmaster | its mostly broken? |
| 05:32.06 | Adys | ...? |
| 05:32.06 | durcyn | Adys: i hate that it -has- to exist, the implementation itself is clever i guess. |
| 05:32.07 | Jamash | you can play starcraft in wine |
| 05:32.09 | Amarande | when's the last time you saw a sub rogue in raids :) |
| 05:32.17 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, unfortunately, that's rather the case right now |
| 05:32.23 | ZorbaBeta | blizzard doesn't manage to keep all the trees viable. |
| 05:32.29 | Jamash | patch more imo |
| 05:32.31 | ZorbaBeta | Blame Blizzard for that one. |
| 05:32.45 | Adys | durcyn: so you rather not have wine at all? |
| 05:32.49 | Amarande | Zorba: I'm more inclined to blame the people who think you have to massively curbstompingly overpower an instance to do it in 10-man normal. :S |
| 05:32.59 | durcyn | Adys: i'd rather not -need- it, quit being purposefully obtuse. |
| 05:33.10 | Adys | quit being stupidly obscure |
| 05:33.16 | Amarande | Okay, if you're doing it on 25-man heroic, then yeah, you have a point in demanding BiS everything and every stat point in THE spreadsheetingly best spot |
| 05:33.18 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, well, most people think they're playing the game to kill the toughest bosses possible, and the proper spec is an edge that it's foolish to throw away |
| 05:33.40 | Jamash | let's all hold our breaths until blizzard and valve start releasing all their games for linux |
| 05:33.46 | ZorbaBeta | that said, *most* people would be far better served by practicing their own skills rather than choosing the right spec. |
| 05:33.52 | ZorbaBeta | and most people are not willing to do that work. |
| 05:33.52 | Amarande | on the other hand, requiring people to dot every t and cross every i to do naxx 10, is just bad :) |
| 05:34.21 | Amarande | or hell even say ony 25 |
| 05:34.23 | ZorbaBeta | however consider that these are people who have reached their own limit of skill, one way or another |
| 05:34.33 | Adys | Jamash: "meh" |
| 05:34.35 | Amarande | with ony 25 ... given the utter lack of any enrage of ANY sort ... |
| 05:34.36 | Jamash | I don't think that most people play the game to kill the toughest bosses possible |
| 05:34.38 | ZorbaBeta | again, all the stat edges they can get will help, and they're looking for people who are also getting those edges |
| 05:34.48 | Adys | these days I like running apps under wine |
| 05:34.50 | Amarande | you basically would just need curbstomping tanks and healers and you could probably take the dps in greens heh |
| 05:34.52 | ZorbaBeta | jamash, no, but I think most people doing raids at 80 *think* they are. |
| 05:35.01 | Jamash | I'm not |
| 05:35.02 | Adys | it's some sort of ocd food |
| 05:35.14 | ZorbaBeta | I didn't say "all", I said "most" ;) |
| 05:35.19 | Amarande | assuming said dps in greens know to avoid fire fissures and deep breath :) |
| 05:35.37 | Jamash | I keep forgetting that as the hunter I'm responsible for map pings in raids :( |
| 05:35.39 | Amarande | effing fire fissures |
| 05:35.41 | ZorbaBeta | anyway, are you telling me that if you have a choice between killing Patchwerk again, and going to kill Onyxia, you'd choose Patchwerk? |
| 05:35.44 | Amarande | I remember I died once in ony from one of those |
| 05:35.52 | Jamash | you mean patrick? |
| 05:35.56 | Jamash | he's my buddy |
| 05:36.05 | Amarande | there I was rushing to rejoin the raid after ony had moved, and next thing I'm dead |
| 05:36.17 | Adys | Shirik: ping btw |
| 05:36.22 | Shirik | Adys: no |
| 05:36.25 | Adys | Yes |
| 05:36.25 | Shirik | whatever you want, I don't care |
| 05:36.26 | Adys | Shirik |
| 05:36.30 | Adys | compile xflight |
| 05:36.33 | Adys | and zip it up for me |
| 05:36.34 | Shirik | I can't |
| 05:36.36 | Shirik | no libs |
| 05:36.45 | Adys | install them then you lazy fuck |
| 05:36.46 | Shirik | I recently reformatted |
| 05:37.28 | Amarande | Zorba: I'm saying that given a choice between doing a 10N and having fun, and doing a 25H and it feeling as pressure-filled as a high end career, I'd do the 10N and have fun |
| 05:38.06 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, sure, but given a choice between doing a tier-7 10N and having fun, and a tier-8 10N and having fun, which would you choose? |
| 05:38.22 | Amarande | hmm |
| 05:38.29 | Amarande | naxx vs. ulduar, that's a toughie |
| 05:38.43 | ZorbaBeta | okay, a t11 10n and a t12 10n then |
| 05:38.50 | ZorbaBeta | the only known information is that one of them drops better loot ;) |
| 05:39.00 | Jamash | I'd prefer ulduar to naxx or toc |
| 05:39.00 | Amarande | ceteris paribus outside of the loot, the t12 then |
| 05:39.00 | ZorbaBeta | (and is a harder fight, presumably) |
| 05:39.13 | Amarande | in practice, instances have their fun factor vary drastically |
| 05:39.17 | Amarande | e.g. |
| 05:39.22 | ZorbaBeta | yeah, I'm definitely going with "all other factors being equal" |
| 05:39.24 | Thunder_Child | ~rawr |
| 05:39.25 | purl | well, rawr is a demigod to everyone who isnt a jew, or program for comparing and exploring gear for Bears, Cats, Moonkin, Warlocks, Mages, Retadins, ProtWarriors, and Healadins (http://www.codeplex.com/Rawr) |
| 05:39.25 | Amarande | given a choice between doing ulduar and toc ... |
| 05:39.45 | ZorbaBeta | if they dropped the same loot I'd actually choose Ulduar ;) |
| 05:39.45 | Amarande | there seems to be this general idea that toc is the scrappy raid of LK |
| 05:39.49 | Thunder_Child | took me a second to get that first part |
| 05:40.11 | ZorbaBeta | but in any case, my point is that, given the other restrictions they have in mind, everyone wants to do tougher bosses that drop better loot |
| 05:40.30 | ZorbaBeta | and those restrictions can take a variety of forms, from "having fun" to "doing stuff with my friends" |
| 05:40.32 | Amarande | people complaining about faction champions, people complaining about northrend beasts, people complaining about anub'arak ... |
| 05:40.46 | ZorbaBeta | but *in general* everyone wants to group with people who are more competent players rather than less competent players, all else being equal |
| 05:40.58 | ZorbaBeta | and proper gearing and itemization tends to be a good sign of player competency. |
| 05:41.15 | Amarande | faction champions sounds like a particular nailbiter. not only do you have to worry about the tank losing aggro or you pulling it, you have to worry about the STUPID CAT OMNOMNOMING THE HEALER and wiping you shortly after |
| 05:41.20 | ZorbaBeta | all else being equal, would you rather gear with the dude doing 8000 DPS or the dude who manages 1200 DPS on a good day? |
| 05:41.35 | Amarande | because apparently the healer spends a *lot* of time having to stop healing the tank because of that cat |
| 05:41.40 | ZorbaBeta | ah, toc is fine, they're all pretty easy and entertaining fights |
| 05:41.44 | ZorbaBeta | have you ever done those fights? |
| 05:41.49 | Amarande | nope. I don't have enough GS |
| 05:41.58 | ZorbaBeta | you're not even guaranteed to get the cat :P |
| 05:42.05 | Amarande | my 80 isn't very well geared :S |
| 05:42.09 | ZorbaBeta | (I'm not sure I've even seen the cat, in fact) |
| 05:42.28 | Amarande | although at least the cat is apparently not as omgwtf as Auriaya's cats |
| 05:42.29 | ZorbaBeta | ToC's a very easy, fast raid, and reasonably fun. |
| 05:42.46 | Amarande | Auriaya, you make one mistake when pulling and you're like OMGWTFTHETANKTOOK80KDAMAGEGODDAMNIT |
| 05:43.00 | Jamash | people who do 8k dps tend to leave our fun guild for progression guilds |
| 05:43.00 | ZorbaBeta | it's not *that* bad, but yes, the pull is rather hairy on that fight |
| 05:43.13 | Jamash | so I'd rather play with the guy who'd stay in the guild |
| 05:43.15 | ZorbaBeta | jamash, keep in mind that progression guilds can be damn fun too |
| 05:43.22 | Amarande | Zorba: they can be? |
| 05:43.41 | Amarande | I always seem to get the impression from blogs that progression guilds take the game as such srs bsns that they almost *forget* to have fun |
| 05:43.44 | Jamash | for some people, I suppose |
| 05:43.53 | Amarande | no wonder Bazz quit WoW |
| 05:44.42 | Amarande | he was the GM of Turalyon Horde's premier progression guild since vanilla |
| 05:44.51 | Amarande | I'm surprised it took him this long to burn out, from what I read about progression guilds |
| 05:44.57 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, it highly depends on the guild |
| 05:45.33 | ZorbaBeta | I mean, I know someone in one of the reasonably-high-up progression guilds. when they do Onyxia the tank tries to kill as many people as possible with dragonbreath because it's hilarious |
| 05:45.49 | Amarande | well, I tend to think of 'progression guild' to imply focused enough on progression as to force people to keep up a blistering pace or be kicked |
| 05:46.06 | ZorbaBeta | but when they're actually doing progression stuff, they buckle down and try to do *well* because that's what they enjoy doing |
| 05:46.09 | ZorbaBeta | rocking out and killing bosses |
| 05:46.32 | Amarande | since I tend to think a guild needs to base itself on strong ties between its members, to the point of ideally being a nakama, I tend to think that's kicking awfully readily for folks who ought to be your best online pals |
| 05:46.36 | ZorbaBeta | of course, once they've gotten a boss down, it's time to have fun with it. |
| 05:47.44 | ZorbaBeta | most good guilds I know do end up with very strong ties between members. |
| 05:50.12 | Amarande | however, things would probably be more fun for more guilds |
| 05:50.20 | Amarande | if people didn't feel the need to compete with other guilds for fastest progression :S |
| 05:50.36 | Amarande | at the top, you always read about "OMG WE NEED TO GET THE WORLD FIRST" |
| 05:51.11 | Amarande | what, exactly, does getting the world first get you (besides a shiny FoS and title, in some cases, because Blizzard isn't sane) |
| 05:51.31 | Amarande | and by isn't sane I mean really ... Blizzard collects monthly fees on WoW. |
| 05:51.33 | ZorbaBeta | it's a challenge. the people in the high-up guilds are generally doing it for the challenge |
| 05:51.43 | Amarande | Blizzard would therefore, it seems, prefer people stretch out the fun of the content and not use it up in a couple of weeks |
| 05:51.46 | Jamash | BECAUSE IT'S THERE |
| 05:51.49 | *** join/#wowuidev eidolarr (~zls@c-71-61-178-129.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 05:51.51 | ZorbaBeta | they want to see how awesome they can be and they want to see if they can be the most skilled person around |
| 05:51.53 | ZorbaBeta | thus, a challenge |
| 05:51.59 | Amarande | and yet, it seems like every raid gets conquered patch week lately :( |
| 05:52.09 | ZorbaBeta | that's not even remotely true :P |
| 05:53.13 | ZorbaBeta | the last raid that got conquered on patch week was tier 7. |
| 05:53.59 | Amarande | yeah, I'm probably not thinking things right |
| 05:54.13 | Amarande | you mean people *don't* take things as seriously as blogs and forums suggest? :) |
| 05:54.18 | Amarande | or maybe I've listened to too much trade chat |
| 05:54.30 | ZorbaBeta | some do, some don't. remember that when you're looking at blogs, forums, tradechat, you're looking at the drama whores |
| 05:54.34 | Amarande | which seems to alternate between taking the game overly seriously and juvenile scatological humor |
| 05:54.44 | ZorbaBeta | and, frequently, the people who think they should be good enough to be in the world-first guilds but are nowhere near good enough. |
| 05:55.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (n_a@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 05:55.50 | Amarande | Yeah, people should be more willing to found their own guilds, rather than always seeming to aspire to joining the OMG TOP DOG guild on the server |
| 05:56.18 | ZorbaBeta | making guilds is hard, and there's obviously some population issues with it - a server can only sustain so many high-end guilds |
| 05:56.29 | ZorbaBeta | and many people may realize that they don't have the skills or time to run a successful guild (i know i sure don't) |
| 05:56.29 | Amarande | Then you start feeling like your raiding options are limited, and that (as I've sometimes thought before) working a job that makes you work in the evenings a lot is a virtual death knell for raiding |
| 05:57.12 | Amarande | You see guild ads in chat and they always seem to require you week in, week out, be home like four, five, sometimes even six nights |
| 05:57.25 | ZorbaBeta | hint: those ads are being posted by the guilds that can't hold on to members |
| 05:57.29 | Amarande | (despite the fact that since LK, there's only been what, three raids that might even take more than a night?) |
| 05:57.31 | ZorbaBeta | if they could hold on to members, they wouldn't need to post ads. |
| 05:58.21 | Amarande | although that comment on raid design's me being torn between two thoughts, too |
| 05:58.30 | Amarande | from a practical standpoint, I totally understand the attractiveness of raids like Sarth, Ony, Maly, and even To(G)C to an extent |
| 05:58.48 | Amarande | from a game design standpoint, though, it feels almost laziness ... "hey, let's take a big room and put a boss in it and call it the latest raid" |
| 05:59.29 | Amarande | otoh, it seems like less has been more for a very long time in game design |
| 05:59.50 | Amarande | even as far back as DOOM ... I remember DOOM II deathmatch where it seemed of all the maps ever made for it, original and third party, everyone seemed to only ever play MAP01 and MAP07 |
| 06:00.14 | Amarande | which admittedly were fast-paced, adrenaline pumping fragfests, but they were also two of the shittiest designed maps in all of DOOM |
| 06:00.35 | Amarande | especially 7. 7 was like ... three concentric squares with a few more squares in the middle square! heh |
| 06:01.29 | Wobin | The highlight of my day while being sick |
| 06:01.36 | Amarande | Zorba, do you think we'll ever see the re-ascent of complex gaming? |
| 06:01.41 | Wobin | is the point in the afternoon when the sun fully hits my couch |
| 06:01.44 | Wobin | so I can nap in it |
| 06:01.46 | ZorbaBeta | what do you mean by "complex"? |
| 06:01.57 | Amarande | Zorba: I mean, long, epic storylines, large, complex levels and such |
| 06:02.05 | Amarande | it seems like everything has become simpler and simpler and shorter and shorter |
| 06:02.13 | Amarande | with a few rare exceptions here and there |
| 06:02.30 | ZorbaBeta | I think needlessly complex gaming may be going away. people are getting better at figuring out what's actually needed to provide the goals of the game |
| 06:02.38 | Amarande | hell, sometimes even plot gets dispensed with (your typical deathmatch game ... ok ... here's a room, here's some guns, start killing each other) |
| 06:02.48 | ZorbaBeta | we're past the point where every game needs to have an epic storyline, where every game needs an outdoor world with a huge freeform simulation |
| 06:03.01 | Amarande | and really there's a such thing as too free form |
| 06:03.09 | Amarande | I do like complex worlds that you get to visit a lot of |
| 06:03.12 | ZorbaBeta | I think we will still have epic storylines and complex levels, they'll just stick in the games that are actually built for them. |
| 06:03.32 | ZorbaBeta | another issue we're having right now is the continuing explosive increase in production budgets, which is currently causing games to shrink in terms of hours |
| 06:03.33 | Amarande | but I was also very fond of ones where the world map was fairly simplistic and focused on specific questing hotspots |
| 06:03.42 | ZorbaBeta | big-budget games are moving more towards a movielike $/hr ratio |
| 06:03.46 | Amarande | like, say, FF7 through 9, or the Wild Arms game |
| 06:04.17 | ZorbaBeta | I think we've got an upcoming shakeup where the game development studios stratify a bit more |
| 06:04.19 | Amarande | you HAD a world you could wander about, but for the most part it was just a framework with a few spots to travel between and to have encounters meanwhile |
| 06:04.23 | ZorbaBeta | right now there's "big companies" and "indie studios" |
| 06:04.32 | ZorbaBeta | I think we've got the beginnings of a "mid-size indie studio" thing showing up. |
| 06:04.36 | Amarande | I don't know ... can a "medium business" even exist for any length of time? |
| 06:04.53 | Amarande | It seems like once you get to that point of growth, you either continue till you reach enterprise status or you choke under the demand and go under |
| 06:05.05 | ZorbaBeta | studios of half a dozen to a dozen employees who make 10-20 hour games without the per-screen attention to detail that you see in Uncharted 2 or God of War 3. |
| 06:05.16 | ZorbaBeta | Some do, some don't. You can certainly maintain a business at a middle level. |
| 06:05.27 | ZorbaBeta | Most people don't do that, but that's a human nature thing. |
| 06:05.57 | Amarande | I miss the days when one determined person could come up with a good RPG in a reasonable period of time |
| 06:06.06 | ZorbaBeta | you mean, today? ;) |
| 06:06.07 | Amarande | Oh, I'm sure you can still, but by the time you release, you'll probably be dated |
| 06:06.16 | eidolarr | in emacs can you change the color of the status bar? |
| 06:06.18 | Amarande | ... and maybe that's the trap I need to make sure to avoid |
| 06:06.21 | ZorbaBeta | if you're not obsessed with high-end art you can do that easily today |
| 06:06.24 | ZorbaBeta | I mean, www.mandible.net |
| 06:06.28 | ZorbaBeta | most of the games on there I made in a week |
| 06:06.31 | ZorbaBeta | the one at the top I made in 48 hours. |
| 06:06.34 | Amarande | eidolarr: it's emacs, the term "impossible" doesn't exist |
| 06:06.45 | eidolarr | yeah but google isn't helpful |
| 06:06.49 | Amarande | you could probably write an epic RPG in emacs, :P |
| 06:07.23 | Amarande | Zorba: come to think of it, wasn't it the effort to stay on top of the curve that killed DNF eventually? |
| 06:07.29 | ZorbaBeta | yeah, pretty much. |
| 06:07.42 | ZorbaBeta | and a lot of the modern indie games are just flipping off the curve and doing what makes sense for them. |
| 06:07.58 | Kraps | the honor cap is still 75k? |
| 06:07.59 | Amarande | 2012 (or was it 2014? sometime around then) should be a golden year for the indie RPG, too |
| 06:08.04 | ZorbaBeta | our level of graphics is so ridiculous today that you can spend movie budgets on movie-length games without even working hard at it, and not every game needs that much money :) |
| 06:08.33 | Amarande | if I recall, that's the year that the Square patent on Active Time Battle (the famous system used in the FFs from IV through IX) expires |
| 06:08.43 | Amarande | which leaves wide open a MEGA awesome paradigm for indies |
| 06:08.55 | ZorbaBeta | it won't change a thing |
| 06:09.11 | ZorbaBeta | indie games don't pay attention to patents, and the active time battle isn't a particularly interesting mechanic anyway |
| 06:09.35 | ZorbaBeta | now, you want an explosion of indie games, fix copyright. ;) |
| 06:09.36 | Kraps | is the honor cap still 75k? |
| 06:09.48 | ZorbaBeta | kraps, I haven't heard of it changing since. |
| 06:09.48 | dusky | ye |
| 06:09.50 | Thunder_Child | yes |
| 06:10.14 | Amarande | Zorba: copyright is really the most benign of the three prongs of the intellectual property trident |
| 06:10.31 | Amarande | remember, in order to be guilty of copyright violation, you need to actively copy stuff that's not yours |
| 06:10.46 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, the problem with copyright is that it's far, far, *far* too long |
| 06:10.53 | Amarande | with both patents AND trademarks otoh, you are expected to do your homework and add another thousand hours of research to your project to make sure you're not stepping on any existing toes |
| 06:11.14 | Amarande | which as the number of patents and trademarks constantly expands, becomes back-breaking for small businesses and independent creators |
| 06:11.16 | ZorbaBeta | it no longer accomplishes what it's meant to accomplish, and by reducing it massively I strongly suspect we'd see a cultural and artistic explosion. |
| 06:11.32 | Amarande | also: trademarks can technically last longer than copyrights, the only ones with a strict reasonable limit are patents |
| 06:11.34 | ZorbaBeta | trademarks aren't really much of a problem from what I've heard, but yes, patents are broken also |
| 06:11.47 | ZorbaBeta | the patent limit is also not reasonable, though it's certainly better ;) |
| 06:11.55 | Amarande | unlike copyrights which have a de jure limited duration, trademarks actually CAN be extended without limit as long as they continue to be used by the owner |
| 06:12.17 | ZorbaBeta | copyrights aren't limited in any practical way |
| 06:12.19 | Amarande | if you keep FooCo in business for 1000 years, you can keep the FooCo trademark for 1000 years |
| 06:12.54 | Thrae | Trademarks, Patents, and Copyrights should become unenforcable by law after a much shorter period of time where they're actively part of our culture and/or society. Generally this has been the case but not always. |
| 06:13.07 | Thrae | s/part/integral/ |
| 06:14.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Artimidorus121 (~Joey@99-37-10-115.lightspeed.gylkil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 06:14.09 | Amarande | also: the term 'intellectual property' is toxic and needs to be abolished |
| 06:14.30 | Amarande | trademarks, patents, and copyrights are three completely different sorts of property with completely different rules |
| 06:14.37 | Amarande | attempting to unite them together as a single notion = bad |
| 06:14.43 | Esamynn | ^ |
| 06:15.07 | Torhal | Amarande: But what if I derive them all from the ThisIsMine class? |
| 06:15.12 | Torhal | <.< |
| 06:15.13 | Torhal | >.> |
| 06:15.15 | Esamynn | also, the concept of intellectual property isn't fundamentally flawed, just the way we try to enforce it these days appears to be flawed |
| 06:15.31 | Artimidorus121 | i am trying to make a player unit frame replacement addon and im having one big issue i cannot figure out hoe to use the onupdate xml tag to update players health |
| 06:15.32 | Amarande | Torhal: facetious. that's like saying all Linux apps are the same because they're ultimately great-great-grandchildren of init |
| 06:15.38 | Esamynn | there is a very good chance we are headed toward a society where the only thing with any real value is information |
| 06:15.42 | Thrae | Specifically, Trademark, Patents, and Copyright should never be applicable when the usage does not directly compete with the owner -- there should not be any retroactive ownership of that usage. Again, usually this is the case but not always. |
| 06:15.43 | Torhal | Amarande: :D |
| 06:15.58 | Amarande | and yeah, I do agree the constant extension of copyright = a poor idea |
| 06:16.13 | Esamynn | never is a dangerous word |
| 06:16.31 | Amarande | however, it still is the most benign in terms of interfering with new creation, because you do have to *actively* rip someone off to be guilty, at least as far as I understand what I've read (and not taking into account the role of money in the courtroom) |
| 06:17.08 | Thrae | What we're looking at here is possibly a legislative need for tort reform. Since none of this would be a problem if the civil courts weren't a mess. |
| 06:17.10 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, the mere fact that you use the phrase "rip someone off" indicates how pervasive copyright is |
| 06:17.33 | Amarande | I worry more about TM and patent because of the fact that it is so easy to infringe without knowing, unless you do truly soul-crushing amounts of research work before even starting to create |
| 06:17.37 | ZorbaBeta | if I want to use Mario in a game of mine, I'm not "ripping them off", I'm extrapolating from their creation. That's not "copying their game", and yet it still falls under copyright. |
| 06:17.42 | Artimidorus121 | is there anyone on here that knows about updating player health in a world of warcraft addon? |
| 06:17.58 | Amarande | (and which virtually forces you to be an enterprise with a dedicated research division in the strictest situation, because otherwise your research will be out of date as you do it) |
| 06:18.01 | Thrae | Usually the civil courts say it's up to the legislative branch to make these things clear, hence tort reform would have to come from there. |
| 06:18.05 | ZorbaBeta | I want to make mythical retellings of the game myths that society has. I can't because of copyright. |
| 06:18.40 | Amarande | Zorba: wouldn't that depend on how much you copy it? |
| 06:18.48 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, I can't put Mario in a game. |
| 06:18.56 | Thrae | ZorbaBeta: Depends on if it's a clone or not. I would say a clone should be protected. |
| 06:19.10 | ZorbaBeta | thrae, I dont' want to make a clone. I want to make a film noir Mario takeoff. |
| 06:19.16 | Amarande | let's say I create a world which has two conflicting factions of five major species each |
| 06:19.25 | ZorbaBeta | An entire self-sufficient game that looks at the Mario universe in a different manner. |
| 06:19.29 | Artimidorus121 | ill take that as a no |
| 06:19.34 | Amarande | as long as I don't call these factions Alliance and Horde, or the species the ones from WoW, or the world Azeroth, the basic idea is probably okay |
| 06:19.45 | ZorbaBeta | It'll have the entire Mario cast, and be named as such. |
| 06:19.48 | Esamynn | Artimidorus121: seems the channel is somewhat... off topic atm |
| 06:19.48 | ZorbaBeta | Can't do it! Mario's copyrighted. |
| 06:19.50 | Esamynn | it happens ;) |
| 06:19.53 | ZorbaBeta | Hell I can't even do it with Mickey Mouse. |
| 06:20.03 | ZorbaBeta | artimidorus, I actually have no idea or I would have answered you ;) |
| 06:20.11 | ZorbaBeta | that said, a more specific question might have helped |
| 06:20.29 | Esamynn | ^ |
| 06:20.33 | Jamash | look up the event that gets fired when the player's health changes |
| 06:20.38 | Esamynn | ~irc |
| 06:20.39 | purl | Welcome to IRC, where the men are men, the women are men, and the little girls are FBI agents. |
| 06:20.43 | Esamynn | wrong one |
| 06:20.46 | Esamynn | ~asktoask |
| 06:20.46 | purl | This is IRC. Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question and if someone's around, they'll be glad to help. |
| 06:20.54 | Artimidorus121 | i need to figure out how to use the onupdate xml tag to update players health |
| 06:20.56 | Esamynn | ~botsnack |
| 06:20.56 | purl | aw, gee, Esamynn |
| 06:21.04 | Thrae | ZorbaBeta: You could do that as long as it doesn't become popular and you gave it away for free. If it becomes too popular, Nintendo might want you to stop so people don't get confused on your version vs the official version. |
| 06:21.05 | Jamash | step one: don't use onupdate |
| 06:21.09 | Jamash | step two: don't use XML |
| 06:21.11 | Amarande | I could also make a medieval style world where since a long ago apocalypse only women are allowed to use magic. As long as I don't use the term Aes Sedai or such, I'm not really ripping off Wheel of Time even if the ideas are similar. :) |
| 06:21.12 | Amarande | OTOH |
| 06:21.22 | ZorbaBeta | thrae, see, that's my point. that's copyright, stifling innovation and creativity. |
| 06:21.23 | Esamynn | Jamash: actually, you do you OnUpdate now, the default unit frames do |
| 06:21.24 | Amarande | I'd probably FEEL like I was being unoriginal and making a ripoff, anyway. |
| 06:21.33 | Jamash | Esamynn: really? |
| 06:21.36 | Esamynn | aye |
| 06:21.42 | ZorbaBeta | mario is part of the cultural gestalt for gamers. he's just an accepted icon. and yet, I can't use him, despite the fact that he's literally decades old. |
| 06:21.42 | Jamash | why |
| 06:21.49 | Esamynn | continous updates |
| 06:21.52 | ZorbaBeta | I can't even use Mickey Mouse. |
| 06:21.53 | Jamash | o right |
| 06:21.55 | Amarande | and yeah, I'd think copyright pales in terms of damper on creation compared to that fact |
| 06:22.06 | Amarande | the fact that whenever you create something in the genre, however similar or different it is to the existing works |
| 06:22.10 | Amarande | whether it's legal or pirated |
| 06:22.15 | Esamynn | Artimidorus121: the function you want it UnitHealth |
| 06:22.19 | Esamynn | s/it/is/ |
| 06:22.23 | Amarande | the *consumers* are going to *compare* you to the existing work |
| 06:22.26 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, the point is that I want to use the cultural icons and make another game out of it. Look at all the Alice in Wonderland reimaginings |
| 06:22.27 | Amarande | and if you don't live up to the standard, then you fail |
| 06:22.34 | ZorbaBeta | many of which are strikingly different from the original book |
| 06:22.43 | Jamash | For a counterexample, examine 3D Dot Game Heroes |
| 06:22.45 | Amarande | Zorba: yes, that is indeed one of my gripes with copyright |
| 06:22.57 | Jamash | it /is/ a zelda game |
| 06:22.58 | ZorbaBeta | you use the same hooks, the same concepts that we all recognize, but we tie them together in a different way. That's not "making a ripoff", that's "making something new". |
| 06:23.01 | Jamash | just without zelda or link |
| 06:23.16 | Jamash | and nintendo hasn't sued them |
| 06:23.20 | Amarande | Zorba: yeah, but people are still going to compare you to previous works that used the same hooks and concepts |
| 06:23.32 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, I'm fine with that. |
| 06:23.33 | Thrae | ZorbaBeta: Well, as much as I want tort reform, I don't think Free Speech should be extended to the point where you can openly make money off of other people's ideas. But I do think you should be able to use anything for any reason as long as you don't openly harras the company and its consumers. |
| 06:23.37 | Amarande | and if you don't do it good enough, it doesn't matter how originally you did it, people are going to feel like it's a cheap ripoff of the original |
| 06:23.44 | Wobin | Amarande, if, in your envisaged medieval styled world, your women cross their arms under their breasts, tug their braid and go 'Hrmph'. I will travel across the sea and stab you in the eyes =P |
| 06:23.45 | Amarande | it's like how people felt Grandia II was a ripoff of Final Fantasy X |
| 06:23.47 | ZorbaBeta | thrae, I believe copyright should be stripped way way down. 18 year duration. |
| 06:23.52 | Wobin | (Just sayin' =)) |
| 06:23.56 | ZorbaBeta | After that, everyone is free to use it. |
| 06:24.12 | ZorbaBeta | We make money off other people's ideas *all the time*, what makes it a bad thing? |
| 06:24.20 | Jamash | I believe 14 was the original US duration |
| 06:24.29 | ZorbaBeta | okay, 14 then, I may have gotten that wrong :) |
| 06:24.45 | Thrae | People didn't live as long back then ;) |
| 06:24.45 | Jamash | with a renewal option for one additional period of 14 |
| 06:24.47 | Amarande | Zorba: the only trouble with that is |
| 06:24.49 | Artimidorus121 | ok so heres a post of the code that i have http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32236&highlight=unit im missing something like |
| 06:24.52 | Artimidorus121 | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:24.58 | Artimidorus121 | in the xml file and |
| 06:25.00 | Amarande | the rights industry would lose a lot of property and money ... can the current rickety economy sustain that blow? |
| 06:25.11 | Artimidorus121 | f:setScript("OnUpdate", function() b:SetValue(UnitHealth("player")) end); |
| 06:25.11 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, how would they "lose property and money" exactly? |
| 06:25.14 | Artimidorus121 | in lau file |
| 06:25.24 | Artimidorus121 | but when i use that it dosent update |
| 06:25.25 | Amarande | Zorba: stuff would expire on them, their income would drop from the competition |
| 06:25.31 | Jamash | I wish they'd put the limit of 28 years in the constitution :( |
| 06:25.39 | ZorbaBeta | so what you're really saying is, "lots of other people would start making even more money"? |
| 06:25.47 | ZorbaBeta | I don't see how that would be a problem to the economy. |
| 06:25.47 | Amarande | Zorba: depends |
| 06:25.55 | Amarande | competition seems to worsen the economy in so many cases :| |
| 06:26.01 | Amarande | you can't win |
| 06:26.08 | ZorbaBeta | I don't know of any case where that's happened offhand |
| 06:26.14 | Amarande | with monopolism, the economy tanks because everything goes to the CEOs of the monopolies |
| 06:26.17 | ZorbaBeta | competition is always a good thing :) |
| 06:26.26 | Jamash | Look at free software and how it provides billions of dollars of benefit to the economy because it's available for free |
| 06:26.35 | Jamash | free content does the same thing |
| 06:26.39 | Amarande | with high amounts of competition, the economy tanks because industries are too busy being trapped in price war to be able to charge enough to even sustain themselves |
| 06:26.48 | Jamash | think how many works are based on Shakespeare |
| 06:26.52 | Amarande | you know why you may soon be paying as a matter of course to CARRY ON a bag on the plane? |
| 06:27.01 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, I don't believe that actually happens, though. Yes, some companies die |
| 06:27.03 | ZorbaBeta | but other ones don't |
| 06:27.05 | Jamash | if Shakespeare was under copyright, how much would that stifle literary innovation? |
| 06:27.09 | Amarande | in large part, because the airlines have been trapped in price war so long that they can't charge enough for a ticket to stay in business on that alone |
| 06:27.13 | ZorbaBeta | and the ones that live are the ones that were doing it efficiently enough in the first place. |
| 06:27.15 | Jamash | ZorbaBeta: competition is good, when it exists |
| 06:27.19 | Amarande | so they have to slap we the customers with all sorts of stupid looking fees to make back the money |
| 06:27.41 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, I don't see an issue here. The airlines pay if people bring bags onboard |
| 06:27.45 | Amarande | Jamash: not all THAT much |
| 06:27.54 | ZorbaBeta | they think they can shift that cost to the customer. what's the issue? |
| 06:27.57 | ZorbaBeta | maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong. |
| 06:28.05 | Jamash | Amarande: R U SRS? |
| 06:28.07 | *** part/#wowuidev Artimidorus121 (~Joey@99-37-10-115.lightspeed.gylkil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 06:28.16 | ZorbaBeta | there are airlines I choose, and airlines I avoid, simply based on their fee structures. :P |
| 06:28.17 | Jamash | aww, we scared away the newbie :( |
| 06:28.20 | Amarande | c'mon, you could still make a generic story about a guy and girl from conflicting families that end up committing suicide over epic fail misunderstanding of situations and it wouldn't be a copyright violation of R&J, most likely |
| 06:28.29 | Thrae | How about instead of 75 years, you get 15 years with extensions of 10 years given certain circumstances? If its owned by a person instead of an entity, it goes up to 30 years with 30 year extensions and a far easier renewal process. |
| 06:28.40 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, I can also make Romeo and Juliet and it's not a copyright violation, because R&J is out of copyright |
| 06:28.52 | ZorbaBeta | and many people have, and have made some beautiful artworks, many of which rely on us knowing the characters and knowing the myth. |
| 06:28.55 | Jamash | West Side Story |
| 06:28.59 | Jamash | Bam |
| 06:29.03 | ZorbaBeta | thrae, why not just leave it at 14 years? |
| 06:29.04 | Amarande | But let's put it this way, even if Hamlet was still copyrighted, Disney would still have been able to make Lion King. |
| 06:29.05 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: its impossible to violate the copyright on R&J since it doesnt have one, its public domain |
| 06:29.21 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, amusing that you chose that example - Lion King is actually a direct ripoff of a Japanese movie |
| 06:29.44 | Thrae | ZorbaBeta: There are plenty of legitimate reasons to extend even if owned by a corporate entity, and for a person you don't want to be drowned in paperwork |
| 06:29.57 | Jamash | OK, let me be more specific: How much would it stifle innovation if everything written in the past five hundred years was still under copyright? |
| 06:30.02 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, http://www.kimbawlion.com/rant2.htm |
| 06:30.09 | Amarande | Thrae: "to be able to keep pumping out copies without having to come up with something new" is not a legitimate reason to extend? |
| 06:30.14 | ZorbaBeta | thrae, "legitimate" besides "we want more money"? |
| 06:30.32 | Wobin | http://www.spiderrobinson.com/melancholyelephants.html |
| 06:30.34 | Wobin | that is all |
| 06:30.41 | ZorbaBeta | I mean, I'm not arguing that big companies would love unlimited copyright. I just don't think that's a good reason to provide it. |
| 06:30.48 | ZorbaBeta | wobin, amen to that (everyone else, go read that) |
| 06:30.48 | Amarande | And let's put it another way |
| 06:30.52 | Wobin | read that story, and come back |
| 06:31.05 | Arrowmaster | so i missed the beginning of this convo, is the mouse still copyrighted? |
| 06:31.09 | Amarande | Some folks say that in the end, basically every fantasy and sci-fi work is practically a ripoff to some or other extent of Lord of the Rings, Narnia, or Star Wars |
| 06:31.18 | Jamash | Wobin: hi5 |
| 06:31.24 | Amarande | But you don't see the Tolkien, Lewis, or Lucas people suing every fantasy and sci-fi work out of business, do you? |
| 06:31.25 | Thrae | It's the extremely long initial period and circumstances that are the problem, not the registration itself. |
| 06:31.42 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, the fact that it's still possible to write things isn't evidence that copyright is good |
| 06:31.58 | ZorbaBeta | arrow, mickey? yeah, of course |
| 06:32.36 | Amarande | Or to take a specific example, how about the first three Lone Wolf books by Joe Dever? |
| 06:32.56 | Amarande | Let's see ... our hero is the only survivor of his psychic warriory monky type of people ... sounds kinda like Star Wars |
| 06:33.14 | Amarande | in book two, he is tasked with retrieving a super mega lazer sword of doom that's supposed to save his country ... yeah, that sounds a little like Star Wars |
| 06:33.25 | ZorbaBeta | again, the fact that is' possible to avoid copyright is not any evidence that copyright is good |
| 06:33.28 | Thrae | I doubt we'll get the long initial period revoked anytime soon as that'll make huge waves throughout intellectual property, but defining clear circumstances for which it can be defended, which it cannot, and when it can be renewed is doable. Those are *suppose* to be in place but they're only half (at best) in place. |
| 06:33.35 | Amarande | also you find out that the first three books' plot was set into motion by a mage who turned traitor on his guild to get dark power ... STILL SOUNDS A LOT LIKE STAR WARS |
| 06:33.38 | Kraps | where would i find good pvp specs? |
| 06:33.42 | Amarande | but is Lone Wolf considered a violation of star wars? no. |
| 06:34.15 | Amarande | Kraps: wowwiki? |
| 06:34.17 | Jamash | Lucas is generally pretty mellow about suing people |
| 06:34.42 | Amarande | Zorba: otoh, there do seem some cases that prove that copyright is good |
| 06:34.52 | Amarande | properly enforced copyright would cut down massively on the amount of bad fanfic on the web for instance :P |
| 06:34.57 | Jamash | but he owns his own rights |
| 06:35.04 | Jamash | corporations are not mellow |
| 06:35.08 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, that sounds like a bad thing to me ;) |
| 06:35.21 | Amarande | makes note to self: Zorba is probably a fan of bad fanfic |
| 06:35.37 | Amarande | :) |
| 06:35.53 | Amarande | and yeah, corporate owners are the main problem |
| 06:35.57 | Amarande | individual owners tend to be a lot more mellow |
| 06:36.04 | ZorbaBeta | look at the Japanese doujinshi industry |
| 06:36.15 | ZorbaBeta | an entire industry made up out of what is pretty much blatant copyright infringement |
| 06:36.25 | Amarande | except for a few, who mostly seem to be ones whose 'verses became particularly rife with awful fanfic that was dragging things down by putting a stigma on being a fan |
| 06:36.27 | ZorbaBeta | and yet, it doesn't seem to hurt sales of any of the products "infringed" |
| 06:36.28 | Thrae | The fact is the problem is with the civil courts where you can sue for pretty much any seeming infraction if you have enough money to sue in the first place. Star Wars is mainly Arthurian/Dark Ages mythos put into Space. Yet it can be defended with enough money and *THAT* is the problem. |
| 06:36.55 | Jamash | the irony in Disney, a company built on mining the deep troves of the public domain, being one of the fiercest proponents of extending copyright, is deep enough to drown in |
| 06:37.00 | Amarande | also some who are concerned about counterblows |
| 06:37.07 | ZorbaBeta | jamash, and sometimes not even bothering with public domain |
| 06:37.10 | Jamash | true |
| 06:37.15 | ZorbaBeta | if you saw the simba/kimba link I posted a bit back |
| 06:37.21 | Jamash | oh, I've seen that before |
| 06:37.22 | Amarande | there are a few people who are anal about their 'verse's copyright because of the potential problem of someone writing fanfic that closely resembled a planned future installment in their series |
| 06:37.34 | Amarande | and then the official author releases that installment, and gets sued by the fanfic author who claims THEY were the one ripped off |
| 06:38.41 | Jamash | and then of course there's all the films rotting in warehouses because nobody can locate the legal owner of the rights |
| 06:38.56 | Jamash | so nobody will put up the money to have them restored and transferred |
| 06:39.11 | Amarande | and then there's all the anime you can't get in the states yet because no one has made a good enough offer for the legal US release rights |
| 06:39.12 | ZorbaBeta | and all the films and books and movies that can't be written because they rely on characters that haven't been used for fifty years |
| 06:39.24 | Amarande | and so the only english versions are hong kong bootlegs that support the fucking triads |
| 06:39.30 | ZorbaBeta | I mean the point of laws should not be to make specific people richer |
| 06:39.36 | ZorbaBeta | it should be to make the country richer |
| 06:39.47 | ZorbaBeta | and I don't see the current copyright laws as doing the latter in any way. |
| 06:39.50 | Thrae | See, that's where the copyright law could be specified -- that if you're going to make your own version using a direct copy of someone else's characters and/or universe, you give up rights to the copyright holder. So if *they* want to make money off of your fanfic, they could. |
| 06:40.08 | Amarande | Thrae: you could probably specify that with license terms on your book's copyright page |
| 06:40.19 | Amarande | but IANAL and not sure of the precise way to write it in a reasonably succinct, copyright pagey type way |
| 06:40.37 | Jamash | by opening this book you agree to be bound by the following license |
| 06:40.43 | Thrae | Amarande: Yeah, but people normally don't. It should be part of the inherent protection. |
| 06:41.12 | Thrae | Like if I don't mark all my addons explicitly with "public domain", they're not public domain. |
| 06:41.16 | Amarande | on that anime front, for instance, I am not looking forward to the thousand bucks that seeing Kara no Kyoukai: The Garden of Sinners legally will cost me |
| 06:41.48 | Jamash | 1. torrent 2. mail the author an international money order |
| 06:41.48 | Amarande | even though I so very much want to see that particular one :S |
| 06:41.52 | Thrae | Amarande: That's been licensed in the US? |
| 06:41.58 | Amarande | Thrae: not yet. |
| 06:42.07 | Amarande | the only ones with even english subs are HK bootlegs, and I don't buy boots |
| 06:42.24 | Thrae | Amarande: Then it falls under Japanese copyright law, not American which is what I thought we were talking about. |
| 06:42.25 | Amarande | to get it legally, I'd have to pay between 55-70$ per episode, times seven episodes |
| 06:42.36 | Amarande | that's like ... 450 or so I think ... then another 50-100 for a R2 DVD player |
| 06:42.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (~Vilkku@dsl-tkubrasgw1-ffc7c100-46.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 06:42.49 | Amarande | then 500$ for the Japanese Rosetta Stone because it's only in Japanese with Japanese subtitles so I'd have to learn Japanese |
| 06:43.00 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: just download the gg-Takajun fansubs of it |
| 06:43.29 | Arrowmaster | if its not licensed its technically not illegal |
| 06:43.42 | Jamash | us licensors track fansub torrent downloads to decide what to license |
| 06:43.43 | Amarande | also speaking of KnK |
| 06:43.52 | Amarande | I am not at all happy with Random House. At all. |
| 06:44.11 | Amarande | Let's put it this way ... RH licensed the novel for a US release ... and then they put it on "indefinite delay" |
| 06:44.14 | Amarande | Fuck you, Random House. |
| 06:44.34 | Thrae | Amarande: Japanese copyright law is different then the US's. In fact, US copyright lawyers said the Japanese model, especially concerning doushinji, would be huge violations in the US. Yet doushinji is a huge part of Japan's economy, which is why the same industry generally looks the other way for fansubs of un-licensed material. |
| 06:44.52 | Amarande | Thrae: actually on that front, btw |
| 06:44.58 | Amarande | why is there such a difference in cultures like that? |
| 06:45.09 | Amarande | why does the US feel like they need to be Daleks about their copyrights, while Japan doesn't? |
| 06:45.14 | Thrae | There's a lot of differences in the cultures of the US and Japan. |
| 06:45.25 | Amarande | or is there a practical need, like that Japan's economy is not as shitty as ours |
| 06:45.32 | Corrodias | i don't know. but keep in mind japan sells IP for a hell of a lot more than you can get it for in the US, or at least media. |
| 06:45.36 | Jamash | japan's economy has been shitty at times |
| 06:45.42 | Corrodias | anime and artbooks are at prices no sane american would pay |
| 06:45.54 | Amarande | right now, while thinking copyright law needs reform ... I'm also wondering if our economy is at this point so rickety that anything that severely shakes one of our major viable industries would ruin it forever |
| 06:45.55 | Corrodias | and their ero games, too |
| 06:46.15 | Thrae | Japan has a more socialist/facist look at the free market because of its own history, while the US has a more anarchial look at the free market due to its own history. |
| 06:46.23 | Amarande | or at least lead to *millions* of deaths due to starvation because the economy would simply fail to be able to provide food for them |
| 06:46.32 | Jamash | Amarande: we'd be better off economically with reformed copyright, because there would be what the eff Thrae |
| 06:46.37 | Amarande | because there wouldn't even be the tax dollars coming in for food stamps and such |
| 06:47.10 | Amarande | don't forget those starvation deaths would probably snowball into an apocalypse as well |
| 06:47.24 | Amarande | imagine: economy goes into a worse state of fail, and we can't foodstamp the poor anymore |
| 06:47.29 | Amarande | thousands, millions of poor starve to death |
| 06:47.44 | Jamash | that's ok, jesus would return and take all the good Christians away while everyone else suffers eternal torment |
| 06:47.46 | Amarande | we don't have the manpower *either* to bury them fast enough ... disease gets all over the place and the rest of us who have food die of plagues instead |
| 06:47.50 | Thrae | There's also a lot of simularities between the US and Japanese markets, such as rampant corruption in both the corporate and political sectors. |
| 06:48.18 | Arrowmaster | if that happened all the money the US spends on feeding the starving in other countries would be diverted before the masses in the US started starving |
| 06:48.43 | Amarande | (unfortunately, I'm not sure it's not the best idea to simply allow the food stamp program to fail right now ... it seems like this apocalypse is one that is doomed to occur at *some* point no matter what we do, and the longer we delay it the worse it will hit us) |
| 06:48.47 | Jamash | you guys sound like a sci-fi channel movie of the week |
| 06:49.00 | Amarande | Jamash: bah |
| 06:49.08 | Amarande | the only movie that comes to mind right now in this discussion would be Soylent Green |
| 06:49.16 | Amarande | and Soylent Green may be campy, but it's not syfy movie of the week bad |
| 06:49.22 | Jamash | without copyright suddenly it's ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE |
| 06:49.40 | Amarande | Jamash: copyright is really only one thing that could trigger that conceivably |
| 06:49.52 | Amarande | say a well meaning government decides to keep health care in check by putting hard caps on the cost of medicine |
| 06:50.07 | Amarande | the medicine industry (one of our other few viables) tanks, the economy passes the point of recoverability and yeah there we go there too |
| 06:50.15 | Jamash | if we dropped copyright to 28 years the economy would improve |
| 06:50.37 | Arrowmaster | medical industry is probably one of the industries farthest from tanking |
| 06:50.45 | Jamash | there would be a sudden renaissance in publishing currently worthless (yet still copyrighted) works |
| 06:50.49 | Amarande | besides, the costs aren't that bad if you have a job :P |
| 06:50.59 | Amarande | I pay ten dollars a month for one of my meds, forty for the other |
| 06:51.14 | Amarande | I actually pay more for my NON PRESCRIPTION allergy pills a month than for one of those meds |
| 06:51.26 | Jamash | I pay nine hundred dollars a month for my medicines |
| 06:51.31 | Amarande | (twice as much now actually, since my father keeps taking my zyrtecs :() |
| 06:51.39 | Arrowmaster | you dont want to know how much prescription meds get mailed to my house a month |
| 06:51.44 | Jamash | the drug companies can go to hell |
| 06:51.50 | Arrowmaster | we measure in boxes |
| 06:51.54 | Corrodias | i'm more interested in how many you sell to other people |
| 06:51.57 | Amarande | Jamash: sheesh |
| 06:51.57 | Corrodias | ;D |
| 06:52.01 | Arrowmaster | none |
| 06:52.05 | Jamash | actually I don't because I can't afford them |
| 06:52.07 | Amarande | your health must be bad |
| 06:52.20 | Amarande | mine are for anxiety ... Risperidone and Lexapro |
| 06:52.21 | Arrowmaster | my dad had a kidney transplant |
| 06:52.24 | Corrodias | developing and testing a drug can't be cheap |
| 06:52.27 | Jamash | Mine are for depression |
| 06:52.39 | Amarande | Risperidone's gone generic, so it's cheap now (it's the 10 a month one) |
| 06:52.40 | tekkub | Trey's dad has seisures... takes 8 pills a day for em |
| 06:52.45 | tekkub | they'er like $10 a pop |
| 06:52.51 | Amarande | Lexapro's the 40 ... would still only be 89 a month if I didn't have insurance |
| 06:52.52 | Corrodias | holy shit. |
| 06:53.09 | tekkub | and usually every 2 years or so they have to change em up because he begins to get resistant to them |
| 06:53.14 | Amarande | tekkub: ouch :( |
| 06:53.26 | Corrodias | Amarande: what are the rules on generic drugs? are other companies allowed to manufacture them after a certain amount of time since the initial release or what? |
| 06:53.35 | tekkub | well he's on disibity thanks to it, so medicare |
| 06:53.37 | Amarande | Corrodias: pretty sure drugs are normal patent law |
| 06:53.43 | Jamash | Corrodias: once the patent expires, anyone can manufacture them |
| 06:53.53 | Jamash | 20 years in the US currently |
| 06:54.04 | Corrodias | ah, that's cool... |
| 06:54.05 | Amarande | the brand name can be trademarked indefinitely, but the patent only lasts a nonrenewable 20 years |
| 06:54.08 | tekkub | drugs are certainly not 20 years |
| 06:54.13 | Jamash | that's why every drug has two names |
| 06:54.15 | Corrodias | nonrenewable, i like that |
| 06:54.30 | tekkub | generics are usually, what, like 8 years later? |
| 06:54.30 | Amarande | yeah, there's the brand name (which is made as a trademark) and the actual chemical name |
| 06:54.38 | Corrodias | not because i don't want them to get their investment back, but they ought to within the patent timeframe. |
| 06:54.42 | Amarande | because I don't think you can trademark the chemical name |
| 06:55.08 | Amarande | due to the fact that the chemical name is a necessary descriptive name, IIRC from reading about trademarks you cannot trademark such |
| 06:55.15 | Corrodias | there has to be a way to refer to a thing that you aren't legally prohibited from using. |
| 06:55.20 | Amarande | you cannot corner the market on something by TMing the only ways to reasonably refer to it |
| 06:55.24 | Arrowmaster | most of the medicines are created in university labs though, not in a company lab |
| 06:56.00 | tekkub | The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, which President Obama signed on March 23, 2010 now authorize the Food and Drug Administration to approve generic versions of biologic drugs and grant biologics manufacturers 12 years of exclusive use before generics can be developed. |
| 06:56.01 | Corrodias | somebody apparently buys the formula, then? |
| 06:56.10 | tekkub | what was it before that? |
| 06:56.38 | Amarande | Corrodias: the formula is only anyone's exclusive property while it is patented |
| 06:56.55 | Jamash | medicines are co-developed by pharma companies and universities, I believe |
| 06:57.51 | Corrodias | my point is, somebody's getting paid |
| 06:58.12 | Iriel | The patent period of drugs begins when the patent is filed, usually there's several years of trials and FDA approval before it goes to market |
| 06:58.28 | tekkub | ^ |
| 06:58.56 | Iriel | The window of time between approval and end of patent is when the companty has to recoup the investment on research, plus any failed drugs it's done recently, and pay its staff, and make a profit (if it's a for-profit company) |
| 06:59.29 | tekkub | and get things gold-plated |
| 06:59.33 | Jamash | s/a profit/an obscene profit/ |
| 06:59.46 | Iriel | That depends on the company |
| 07:00.02 | tekkub | true, some go for platinum instead of gold |
| 07:00.20 | Corrodias | do you have any data to back up this claim, tekkub? |
| 07:00.29 | Amarande | soo ... are childrens week decorations up yet? :) |
| 07:00.33 | tekkub | sure let me just pull it out of my ass here |
| 07:00.58 | Amarande | Iriel: I think that's patents in general, actually |
| 07:01.05 | Amarande | the beginning when it's filed thing |
| 07:01.19 | Corrodias | there are renewable patents, though, afaik |
| 07:01.28 | Amarande | Corrodias: not very, though |
| 07:01.32 | Iriel | Yes, but most inventions dont have to deal with the FDA |
| 07:01.38 | tekkub | yea the general difference being that patents on other stuff doesn't have that trial period |
| 07:01.41 | Amarande | if I recall what I've read, there are some cases where you can get one renewal, but only one, and for only five more years |
| 07:01.45 | tekkub | they patent it and go to market |
| 07:01.49 | Corrodias | and then you've got copyrights which last hilariously long |
| 07:02.11 | Jamash | copyright can last something like 170 years |
| 07:02.16 | Iriel | I used to work for a pharmaceutical research company |
| 07:02.18 | Amarande | also: that apparently most patents lapse well before their normal period is up, because maintenance fees are not paid |
| 07:02.47 | Iriel | There's a whole lot of work to get a drug approved these days |
| 07:02.47 | Amarande | this is probably going to be particularly common in the tech sector this century, seeing as tech tends to become obsolete long before ten years have passed let alone twenty |
| 07:02.58 | tekkub | which is a good thing |
| 07:03.00 | Jamash | then there's software patents |
| 07:03.06 | Jamash | aka patenting ideas |
| 07:03.11 | Iriel | Dont talk to me about software patents, ugh |
| 07:03.25 | Corrodias | yes, don't even. |
| 07:03.27 | tekkub | System for Unlocking A Device Via Interaction With Its Periphials |
| 07:03.30 | Jamash | in theory, you can't patent ideas |
| 07:03.33 | Jamash | in practice, you can |
| 07:03.47 | Corrodias | well, what is a complex mechanical device or chemical formula? :P |
| 07:03.59 | Iriel | The problem is that patents dont handle abstraction and conceptual portability at all well |
| 07:04.02 | Jamash | you're only supposed to be able to patent things |
| 07:04.02 | Corrodias | just an idea for how to put things together |
| 07:04.07 | Jamash | chemicals and devices are things |
| 07:04.10 | Jamash | software is not |
| 07:04.21 | Corrodias | you mean it's not a physical object |
| 07:04.21 | tekkub | sure software is |
| 07:04.26 | Jamash | no, it's not |
| 07:04.34 | tekkub | it's just not something YOU can visualize |
| 07:04.38 | Corrodias | software is a thing. we're talking about it right now. it has a dictionary definition. |
| 07:04.43 | Arrowmaster | you cant patent mathematical formulas, but really thats all software is |
| 07:04.44 | Jamash | is love a thing? |
| 07:04.55 | tekkub | love is a theory |
| 07:04.58 | Jamash | what about colorless green ideas that sleep furiously? |
| 07:05.02 | dusky | what is love? |
| 07:05.02 | Corrodias | sure is |
| 07:05.03 | Jamash | are those things? |
| 07:05.11 | Jamash | what about the number 5 |
| 07:05.14 | Jamash | is that a thing? |
| 07:05.17 | Corrodias | yes, they're things |
| 07:05.19 | tekkub | 5 is 5 things |
| 07:05.22 | Corrodias | you're the one who used that word inappropriately. |
| 07:05.31 | Thrae | I think the first thing we should do about the Pharmalogical industry is tort reform. Then we can take a harder look at their other financial stakes. |
| 07:05.47 | Jamash | Corrodias: NO U |
| 07:06.08 | tekkub | apple tort? |
| 07:06.15 | tekkub | wait that's tart |
| 07:06.19 | Jamash | torte |
| 07:06.20 | tekkub | I'm all for tart reform |
| 07:06.28 | Corrodias | apparently architectural designs are copyrighted too |
| 07:06.46 | Arrowmaster | some of those are more art |
| 07:06.48 | Jamash | you can't publish photographs of outdoor art installations either |
| 07:06.54 | Corrodias | your goal should now be to produce all the remaining good earthquake proofing designs, and then not let anybody use them. |
| 07:07.01 | Thrae | One of the reasons drugs, especially life-saving drugs, are more expensive in the US then most anywhere else is that our civil courts are much, much harsher on any drug-related problems even if they could be forseen by medical professionals. |
| 07:07.12 | Jamash | Corrodias: That would come under patent, not copyright |
| 07:07.27 | Corrodias | nope, Jamash, "Building is protected for 70 years after death of author" |
| 07:07.30 | Corrodias | http://www.copyright.cornell.edu/resources/publicdomain.cfm |
| 07:07.56 | tekkub | I want to design a building that'a giant copyright sign |
| 07:08.04 | tekkub | is the copyright sign copyrighted? |
| 07:08.11 | Arrowmaster | s/copyright sign/cock/ |
| 07:08.22 | Corrodias | why copyrights last 100-170 years, when patents are content to last 20(?), is beyond me. |
| 07:08.46 | Jamash | because patents are more evil |
| 07:09.38 | Amarande | tekkub: don't think so, it's a Unicode character even |
| 07:09.53 | Amarande | and I believe one of the criteria for a glyph to be included in Unicode is it can't be the exclusive property of an entity |
| 07:09.59 | Amarande | because that would prevent compliance in fonts |
| 07:10.23 | tekkub | they only put that in to spite the prince symbol |
| 07:10.24 | Amarande | I believe this came up at some point when someone asked why the Olympic Rings didn't have a Unicode character despite their commonness in modern culture |
| 07:10.38 | Corrodias | so who owns the rings? |
| 07:10.44 | Amarande | Corrodias: the IOC, far as I know |
| 07:10.45 | Arrowmaster | IOC |
| 07:11.01 | tekkub | http://happyvalleynews.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/prince_symbol2.jpg |
| 07:11.06 | Amarande | the Olympic Rings do not have a Unicode character for the simple reason that Unicode doesn't want every font maker to have to get a license from the IOC to make a compliant font |
| 07:11.12 | tekkub | I never got what that thing meant |
| 07:11.14 | Corrodias | ah, a swiss corporation |
| 07:11.15 | Amarande | I mean, imagine if all sorts of trademark symbols were included in Unicode |
| 07:11.15 | Arrowmaster | and they are extremely anal about anybody using them without first paying them huge amounts of money |
| 07:11.24 | tekkub | he's a man, and a woman, and he likes to blow horns? |
| 07:11.38 | Amarande | next thing every decent font would cost you $1000 per style because you'd have to cover the foundry's cost for all the licenses they'd have to secure to make the font without violating trademark |
| 07:11.52 | Amarande | and tbh, I find $29 a style to be a tad steep as it is :P |
| 07:12.27 | Corrodias | and some people try to sell fonts as it is! |
| 07:12.32 | Corrodias | it's crazy stuff out there, man |
| 07:12.45 | Jamash | fonts cannot be copyrighted |
| 07:12.49 | Jamash | but font /files/ can |
| 07:12.55 | Jamash | it's rather absurd |
| 07:13.51 | Arrowmaster | thats weird |
| 07:13.54 | Corrodias | that sounds like it'd be open to all kinds of loopholes to get free fonts. |
| 07:14.01 | Jamash | you would think so |
| 07:14.05 | Corrodias | as if getting some fonts is a big deal |
| 07:14.52 | Jamash | apparently it's just in the US |
| 07:15.00 | Jamash | you can copyright fonts in other countries |
| 07:16.42 | Jamash | then there are moral rights |
| 07:16.43 | Wobin | my favourite font geekery: http://www.ironicsans.com/2008/02/idea_a_new_typography_term.html |
| 07:17.19 | Corrodias | oh, those are easy! i'm the moral dictator. what i say is law. |
| 07:17.26 | Corrodias | i'm a good ruler, though. you need not fear me. |
| 07:17.34 | Jamash | moral rights offend my morals |
| 07:17.44 | Corrodias | good, because you don't get rights |
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| 07:19.06 | Jamash | moral rights are rights that the author of a work cannot sell |
| 07:19.43 | Jamash | thus meaning that they can extend their sticky fingers to prevent the actual owner of a work from doing stuff with it |
| 07:20.48 | Corrodias | how silly |
| 07:23.52 | Amarande | hmm |
| 07:23.58 | Amarande | I guess children's week is not celebrated in the Ghostlands |
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| 07:25.45 | Jamash | ghost children! |
| 07:27.09 | Amarande | hmm |
| 07:27.19 | Amarande | am I gathering that it's not worth it to bother with pick pocket till 20-25 or so? |
| 07:27.27 | ZorbaBeta | oh hey, is it children's week? |
| 07:27.40 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, if you have a stealth opener, make a macro that includes pickpocketing (and turn autoloot on) |
| 07:27.42 | ZorbaBeta | bam, free stuff |
| 07:28.12 | Jamash | I pickpocket you with my dagger? |
| 07:28.20 | Jamash | that's funky |
| 07:30.04 | Amarande | Zorba: how *do* you autoloot with pickpocket, anyway? |
| 07:31.17 | Wobin | turn autloot on |
| 07:31.43 | Corrodias | picks Jamash's "pocket", with his "penis". |
| 07:33.13 | Jamash | surprise subtext? |
| 07:33.29 | Corrodias | hah |
| 07:40.43 | Wobin | That's his 'hammer' |
| 07:41.30 | Wobin | ps, everyone has seen Dr Horrible's Sing Along Blog, yes? |
| 07:44.40 | Corrodias | i haven't |
| 07:44.52 | Arrowmaster | ..... |
| 07:44.55 | Corrodias | i've seen the site a few times |
| 07:45.08 | Corrodias | but watching videos... i rarely get around to that form of entertainment |
| 07:47.00 | Wobin | =( |
| 07:47.03 | Wobin | it's awesome =\ |
| 07:47.20 | Wobin | You should go watch it! |
| 07:47.27 | Wobin | then I can link the 8bit version =P |
| 07:48.01 | Corrodias | i'm always playing vidya or roleplaying or reading something, you know? |
| 07:48.19 | Corrodias | link it at will; i can ignore it |
| 07:48.42 | Wobin | just checking if it's still free |
| 07:53.01 | Corrodias | http://twitter.com/JJONAHJAMESON |
| 07:53.45 | Amarande | you know, I don't even think it was so much of the rogue style being an issue for me last night come to think of it |
| 07:53.59 | Amarande | I think it was that power shock feeling you get when you're used to playing a 60+ and forget how weak you are at low levels :) |
| 07:54.23 | Amarande | this said, I wish energy costs were a tad lower. :) |
| 07:54.25 | Corrodias | that's what we figured |
| 07:54.41 | Corrodias | energy costs may go down later, or you may get an ability that takes less or does more damage |
| 07:55.04 | Amarande | And Aquantion should probably be officially an elite instead of disguising himself as a normal mob :S |
| 07:55.09 | Corrodias | i think Mangle takes... 40? so that's 2 right away and another one in a second |
| 07:56.18 | ZorbaBeta | more accurately, you get various ways of regenerating energy faster |
| 07:56.43 | Amarande | also: is it just me, or does crusader proc stupidly often on a rogue :) |
| 07:56.48 | Amarande | like to the point of being OMGBROKEN sometimes |
| 07:57.00 | ZorbaBeta | http://www.wowhead.com/spell=61329 for example |
| 07:57.13 | ZorbaBeta | and http://www.wowhead.com/spell=35553 |
| 07:58.04 | Corrodias | i don't recall regenerating energy faster on my 2.4 druid, but i do remember loving the fact that your energy source refills so fast, at full speed during combat |
| 07:58.31 | Corrodias | contrasted with those nasty little mages! |
| 07:58.53 | ZorbaBeta | well, I don't know how cat druids work :) |
| 07:59.06 | ZorbaBeta | that's at least partially how rogues work, though |
| 08:00.28 | Amarande | yeah, one thing that sucks leveling as a mana user is the amount of downtime |
| 08:02.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 08:03.46 | Amarande | at least mages don't have to buy nonbuff food/water though |
| 08:07.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Kazie (~Kazie@188.114.158.75) |
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| 08:10.11 | Wobin | hehe, My last run |
| 08:10.14 | Wobin | as a disc priest heler |
| 08:10.16 | Wobin | healer |
| 08:10.21 | Wobin | the tank outhealed me =P |
| 08:10.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 08:10.41 | msoul | how many chars tou got at lvl 80? |
| 08:10.44 | msoul | i know you have a dk |
| 08:10.49 | Wobin | me? |
| 08:10.50 | Wobin | um |
| 08:10.52 | msoul | y |
| 08:11.06 | msoul | dunno but i have a thing for plate chars :P |
| 08:11.25 | Wobin | DK, Hunter, Shaman, Priest, Druid |
| 08:11.27 | msoul | don't like casters... rogues comes after |
| 08:11.33 | msoul | dang it |
| 08:11.47 | Wobin | mage and rogue at 72ish |
| 08:11.56 | Wobin | warlock, around 55ish |
| 08:11.56 | msoul | can't do this :( |
| 08:12.02 | Wobin | no pally |
| 08:12.04 | Wobin | and no warrior |
| 08:12.14 | msoul | warrior > ALL! :p |
| 08:12.33 | Wobin | rage based tanking drives me batty |
| 08:12.37 | Wobin | especially for levelling |
| 08:12.46 | Wobin | at least with the druid, I levelled as a dps feral or boomkin |
| 08:12.54 | msoul | didn't tank when i was leveling |
| 08:12.56 | Wobin | and rage gen at 80 is fine |
| 08:13.02 | msoul | yeah |
| 08:13.11 | Wobin | but rage generation at lower levels is painful at best |
| 08:13.19 | msoul | was jumping from one zone to another while waiting in LFG |
| 08:13.20 | Corrodias | boomkins of the world unite! |
| 08:13.22 | msoul | it is |
| 08:13.36 | msoul | i just do the quests that gives me high xp :P |
| 08:13.41 | msoul | and LFG isn't an issue these days |
| 08:13.52 | Wobin | well if you lfg as a tank |
| 08:13.57 | Wobin | you certainly have zero issues |
| 08:14.11 | msoul | only one take i have on LFG: you end up with the lowest and clueless players doing pos _) |
| 08:14.14 | msoul | :( |
| 08:14.21 | msoul | no i don't like LFG at lvl 80 |
| 08:14.28 | Wobin | it'll change once you get better gear |
| 08:14.47 | Wobin | once you start getting groups with 245 avg ilvls |
| 08:14.48 | msoul | my gear is fine to do icc25 even |
| 08:14.50 | Wobin | it tends to get better |
| 08:14.56 | msoul | ah |
| 08:15.04 | Wobin | at least in the ICC5s |
| 08:15.06 | msoul | i do daily heroics early morning |
| 08:15.20 | msoul | i ended up with closr to 3k gs |
| 08:15.36 | msoul | that was the healer and few other dpsers bit higherr |
| 08:15.36 | Wobin | badge gear should get you to 4.5k easy |
| 08:15.41 | msoul | yeah |
| 08:15.51 | Wobin | anything past that requires frost |
| 08:16.03 | Wobin | or ICC gear |
| 08:16.08 | msoul | man i see ppl in bgs with 0 resiliance and whine how did they get crit |
| 08:16.15 | Wobin | hehe |
| 08:16.16 | msoul | i don't know why they don't get pvp gear |
| 08:16.19 | Wobin | I'm terrible at pvp |
| 08:16.31 | msoul | will you learn :P |
| 08:16.32 | Wobin | and consequently have zero resil |
| 08:16.35 | Wobin | and get two shot |
| 08:16.41 | msoul | just get gear and gem/enchant well |
| 08:16.44 | Wobin | goddamn mortal strike hunters =( |
| 08:16.46 | msoul | haha |
| 08:16.50 | msoul | ofc |
| 08:17.04 | msoul | i don't have partner now but on the dk i do pvp |
| 08:17.20 | msoul | got the relentless legs from voa25 was happy about it too |
| 08:17.36 | Wobin | well, once I gear up past badge gear for my shadow and disc spec |
| 08:17.40 | Wobin | I'll work on the pvp gear |
| 08:17.40 | msoul | then wrathful wrist/cloak and wep from icc10 saurfang |
| 08:17.51 | msoul | yeah |
| 08:18.05 | msoul | think you'll get partners easily |
| 08:18.23 | msoul | you and warrior :P |
| 08:22.56 | Amarande | btw, while we're on the subject of pugs and such: http://ihasahotdog.com/2010/04/27/funny-dog-pictures-wot/ |
| 08:26.36 | Amarande | Wobin: decent pvp gear is difficult to get now |
| 08:26.50 | Amarande | I suppose the starter sets will protect you from the scrubs, but not from the folks with the real deal |
| 08:27.05 | msoul | yeah |
| 08:27.09 | Amarande | and getting the real deal requires such stupidly obsessive dedication to specifically Arena ... that ... :P |
| 08:27.11 | msoul | well |
| 08:27.14 | msoul | you can get |
| 08:27.21 | msoul | wrathful ring/neck/cloack and wrist |
| 08:27.39 | msoul | if you're lucky you get relentless 2 pieces from voa25 legs and hands |
| 08:27.47 | msoul | rest furious |
| 08:28.11 | msoul | 4 wrathful piesces are obtainable with honor |
| 08:28.22 | msoul | and honor points are a joke now 1 bg gets you 7k |
| 08:29.18 | Amarande | I was thinking more about the rating requirements than the honor :S |
| 08:29.25 | msoul | aah |
| 08:29.43 | msoul | was talking about gearing up for pvp |
| 08:29.53 | msoul | as a starting point |
| 08:30.56 | jnwhiteh | So what am I missing from my UI |
| 08:30.56 | jnwhiteh | http://images.gammatester.com/pics/89e17e700c88850f2023f2b5d0d4a086.jpeg |
| 08:31.01 | jnwhiteh | anything huge? |
| 08:31.10 | Jamash | depends, are you using Learning Aid? |
| 08:32.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Alram (~Marla@fabe.xs4all.nl) |
| 08:32.44 | jnwhiteh | no idea what that is? |
| 08:33.00 | jnwhiteh | !addon learning aid |
| 08:33.03 | lua_bot | Learning Aid (v. 1.09) last updated Mon Apr 5 02:24 (http://is.gd/bQMSP) |
| 08:33.14 | mikma | jnwhiteh: http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info14985-Voodoo.html |
| 08:33.18 | mikma | !!111oneone |
| 08:33.31 | Jamash | that's handy |
| 08:33.59 | jnwhiteh | I'm not sure where I'd use it, Learning Aid, that is. |
| 08:34.07 | jnwhiteh | Voodoo I could probably come up with a reason, but don't have one as of yet. |
| 08:34.20 | Jamash | do you ever learn new abilities, or swap talent specs? |
| 08:34.25 | jnwhiteh | I swap talent specs |
| 08:34.30 | jnwhiteh | but I don't need an addon to hide the spam |
| 08:34.32 | jnwhiteh | I already have one |
| 08:34.34 | Jamash | bah |
| 08:34.41 | Jamash | I'll sue them for feature stealing |
| 08:34.51 | jnwhiteh | except they had it first, nublet =) |
| 08:34.55 | Jamash | pfft |
| 08:34.56 | jnwhiteh | and when I learn new abilities I just add them to my bars :P |
| 08:35.06 | Jamash | I wrote it because I hate the default spellbook |
| 08:35.11 | jnwhiteh | now, if i start levelling again |
| 08:35.13 | jnwhiteh | I'll probably do that |
| 08:35.18 | jnwhiteh | why do you hate the spellbook? |
| 08:35.19 | mikma | whee! |
| 08:35.45 | Jamash | out of curiosity, what addon do you use for blocking respec spam? |
| 08:36.17 | Jamash | well, I wrote learning aid before they introduced the option to hide lower ranks of spells |
| 08:36.18 | jnwhiteh | DualSpeccer |
| 08:36.50 | jnwhiteh | which i use to swap specs as well |
| 08:36.56 | Amarande | and in cata, there will be no spell ranks at all |
| 08:37.14 | Amarande | you know, that's going to make leveling MUCH more fun (not to mention cut training costs immensely) |
| 08:37.19 | jnwhiteh | indeed |
| 08:37.34 | Amarande | no more Hell levels where there's a difficulty spike because monsters are getting boosts while you're one or two levels before a significant one |
| 08:37.45 | Amarande | (at least, except for ones involving talents) |
| 08:38.53 | Amarande | I'm assuming the power of all skills will be smoothly scaled with level |
| 08:39.32 | Jamash | oh, broker |
| 08:39.44 | Jamash | don't use broker |
| 08:39.48 | Jamash | I mean I don't use it |
| 08:40.20 | jnwhiteh | that's unfortunate |
| 08:40.56 | Jamash | have never found a need to migrate from fubar |
| 08:41.05 | jnwhiteh | look at the code |
| 08:41.11 | jnwhiteh | okay, that's not entirely fair |
| 08:41.21 | jnwhiteh | but look at the code for NinjaPanel or one of the simpler displays |
| 08:41.26 | Jamash | Amarande: They've said that skills should have 85 hidden ranks, in effect |
| 08:41.29 | jnwhiteh | and you'll see why its attractive :P |
| 08:41.41 | Jamash | I don't read other people's code unless I'm steal^Wadapting it |
| 08:42.15 | jnwhiteh | I like simple things :P |
| 08:42.21 | Jamash | also you can swap specs with a macro :P |
| 08:42.40 | jnwhiteh | well, with this I can see which spec I'm in at a glance and change it with a click |
| 08:43.06 | jnwhiteh | the ldb plugins I use are carefully selected =) |
| 08:43.06 | Jamash | so can I |
| 08:43.25 | jnwhiteh | without putting a macro on a button |
| 08:43.27 | jnwhiteh | =) |
| 08:43.32 | Jamash | I have eight action bars |
| 08:43.35 | jnwhiteh | I have 2 |
| 08:43.37 | Jamash | ah |
| 08:43.39 | jnwhiteh | I win :P |
| 08:43.51 | Jamash | I like action bars |
| 08:43.54 | jnwhiteh | okay, off to breakfast |
| 08:43.56 | jnwhiteh | I find action buttons useles |
| 08:44.03 | jnwhiteh | I see my cooldowns elsewhere |
| 08:44.10 | jnwhiteh | and I only use action bars in balance |
| 08:44.14 | jnwhiteh | never in resto, I just click-cast there. |
| 08:44.35 | Amarande | I started using broker because FuBar became fubared on one patch and I wasn't patient enough to wait for everything to get fixed |
| 08:44.43 | Jamash | well, I don't use addons to manage my minipets or buff items |
| 08:44.43 | Amarande | now I <3 it |
| 08:44.49 | Jamash | so I need a lot of action buttons |
| 08:45.04 | tekkub | why wouldn't you? |
| 08:45.09 | Jamash | thank goodness they put tracking on the minimap |
| 08:45.14 | Jamash | laziness |
| 08:45.27 | tekkub | ... laziness is the reason you WOULD |
| 08:45.37 | Jamash | I had a minipet managing addon but I couldn't get it to work so I uninstalled it |
| 08:45.44 | tekkub | we're all lazy fucks here, that's why we write addons |
| 08:45.54 | Jamash | what is your minipet addon of choice? |
| 08:46.01 | tekkub | mine |
| 08:46.06 | Jamash | let me guess, tekcritter |
| 08:46.12 | tekkub | kennel |
| 08:46.14 | Jamash | ah |
| 08:47.57 | Jamash | lawl, we both uploaded addons with "threatening" in the name within a week of each other during wrath beta |
| 08:48.38 | Jamash | good times |
| 08:53.58 | Wobin | heehee |
| 08:54.05 | Wobin | pug HoL |
| 08:54.07 | Wobin | er HoS |
| 08:54.14 | Wobin | three female dwarfs =P |
| 08:54.20 | Wobin | all with the same awesome casting hairstyle |
| 08:55.11 | Jamash | so you're saying every female dwarf in your battlegroup is in your party? |
| 08:55.24 | Wobin | coincidence! |
| 08:56.08 | Jamash | you're the dwarf pimp master |
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| 09:21.35 | batrick | http://www.flashasylum.com/db/files/Comics/Rob/wingman.png |
| 09:39.34 | Wobin | http://logan-1.mirror.waffleimages.com/files/91/910fbac58b7c8b9867d28546315eb17ae13f6431.gif |
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| 09:44.36 | Wobin | jnwhiteh, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v54kH0af8vU&feature=related |
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| 10:58.23 | harl | hi |
| 11:02.40 | Cairenn | hi |
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| 11:27.18 | olafski | hm wasn't the orphan matron supposed to give me an orphan to take care of? |
| 11:28.49 | cbreak | you won't get a new orphan if the one you had last year sustained physical or psychological traumata |
| 11:29.03 | olafski | damn |
| 11:29.10 | olafski | now I can't complete the achievements |
| 11:29.19 | Arrowmaster | doesnt that exclude everybody? |
| 11:29.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Guardix (~Martin@188.178.102.237) |
| 11:30.47 | robotusch | It's only the Northrend one they forgot to reset, the Outland & Vanilla ones are alright |
| 11:31.46 | olafski | hm |
| 11:31.53 | airtonix | [wall of lol] |
| 11:32.01 | olafski | I was thinking maybe I can use the pet I have from last year to get the achievements |
| 11:34.04 | ZorbaBeta | it really stuns me that this reset process of theirs is apparently manual |
| 11:34.09 | ZorbaBeta | you think they'd have automated it at some point |
| 11:34.43 | cbreak | they automated GM replies |
| 11:34.48 | cbreak | what do you think the GMs do instead? |
| 11:34.53 | cbreak | they play NPCs! |
| 11:37.26 | airtonix | they still have GMs? i thought they just use automated-goblin-therapists. |
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| 11:48.50 | olafski | oh, we can use the stormwind orphans to get the achievements too :P |
| 11:50.00 | olafski | maybe they didn't intend to reset the dalaran one then |
| 11:52.29 | A-KO | so I wonder on Cataclysm what kind of storyline it will follow--the changes to blasted lands just don't happen "overnight" |
| 11:52.39 | A-KO | that's in fact some years between the initial flooding and all those big ass trees |
| 11:54.31 | olafski | magic |
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| 11:57.23 | msoul | a lot are complaining caue cata doesn't have any story behind it |
| 11:57.51 | msoul | btw, anyone has sc2 key? |
| 11:57.54 | msoul | a spare key |
| 11:57.58 | airtonix | yes |
| 11:58.00 | airtonix | its |
| 11:58.02 | airtonix | over |
| 11:58.03 | airtonix | there |
| 11:58.55 | Guest80072 | hi |
| 11:59.21 | Guest80072 | is this the right place if I have a little question about lua? |
| 11:59.51 | Cairenn | yes |
| 11:59.58 | Guest80072 | alright, thanks |
| 12:00.15 | airtonix | :( |
| 12:00.28 | airtonix | it is after all the topic of the room. |
| 12:00.29 | Guest80072 | do you know if it's possible to check blizzard's script behind WorldFrame OnMouseDown/OnMouseUp |
| 12:00.48 | airtonix | what do you mean by check? |
| 12:01.02 | Guest80072 | as in: read what it does |
| 12:01.02 | airtonix | Guest80072, do you mean get the source ? |
| 12:01.05 | Guest80072 | yes |
| 12:01.17 | airtonix | there is a website that provides the decompiled source of this . |
| 12:01.21 | foxlit | No. |
| 12:01.25 | airtonix | i forget what it is' |
| 12:01.33 | foxlit | Because it's not implemented as part of framexml. |
| 12:01.38 | Guest80072 | i know |
| 12:01.43 | Guest80072 | first thing i checked |
| 12:01.49 | A-KO | msoul: what are you talking about? Cataclysm technically has plenty of story |
| 12:01.59 | foxlit | WorldFrame is special; the mouse events dispatch is in C. Attempting to set your own mouse down/up handlers will break everything. |
| 12:02.08 | Cairenn | ~wowprogramming |
| 12:02.16 | purl | hmm... wowprogramming is World of Warcraft Programming: A Guide and Reference for Creating WoW Addons - http://is.gd/7A3Jx - a book written by Cladhaire and Gazmik, or the companion site and API reference available online for free at http://wowprogramming.com |
| 12:02.20 | Guest80072 | can i still hook it? |
| 12:02.31 | cbreak | there's a special method to hook secure stuff |
| 12:02.38 | airtonix | at your own peril it seems |
| 12:02.43 | Guest80072 | ;) |
| 12:02.43 | foxlit | No, you cannot. |
| 12:03.06 | foxlit | Because there's no script there to hook, your hooking attempts will just be equivalent to setting a new handler there. |
| 12:03.21 | nevcairiel | which will break stuff :d |
| 12:03.28 | Guest80072 | thanks for the translation :D |
| 12:03.38 | Guest80072 | but i read that the new WIM does exactly that |
| 12:03.49 | Guest80072 | it makes a secure hook of the worldframe onmousedown |
| 12:03.59 | Guest80072 | to be able to "click out of" WIM |
| 12:04.56 | foxlit | So where did you read that? |
| 12:05.05 | Guest80072 | one second |
| 12:05.44 | Guest80072 | http://www.wimaddon.com/wiki/Main_Page @ WIM 3.2.1 |
| 12:06.24 | Guest80072 | "A long requested feature that I had to regretfully decline is now a reality. User's have asked me many times to drop focus from a WIM window when you click out of it. This wasn't possible. At least so I thought. Even Blizzard hasn't thought of this. By Securely hooking the WorldFrame's OnMouseDown & OnMouseUp, I was able to create my own OnClick event. I'm rambling and most of you don't... |
| 12:06.26 | Guest80072 | ...care. Long story short, you can now click out of a WIM window." |
| 12:07.19 | Guest80072 | i think he uses hookscript |
| 12:07.27 | Guest80072 | so there must be a script to hook, and look at |
| 12:07.34 | foxlit | hookscript is equivalent to setscript if there's no script there. |
| 12:07.38 | Guest80072 | ah |
| 12:07.41 | foxlit | You can verify whether there's a script there by calling getscript |
| 12:07.44 | Guest80072 | thanks :) i didn't know that |
| 12:07.51 | Guest80072 | i tried that |
| 12:07.55 | Guest80072 | gave an error |
| 12:08.14 | Guest80072 | but perhaps that's just me not knowing how shit's done |
| 12:08.25 | foxlit | but yeah, it does do that. |
| 12:09.15 | haste | Guest80072: WorldFrame doesn't have OnClick, but OnMouse{Down,Up} |
| 12:09.22 | Guest80072 | but how can he use setscript without breaking the C script |
| 12:09.26 | Guest80072 | i know haste |
| 12:09.54 | Guest80072 | but thanks anyways ;) |
| 12:10.07 | foxlit | Perhaps I was overly gloomy extrapolating from keydown |
| 12:10.13 | haste | it didn't seem as you knew that since you tried to fetch OnClick :P |
| 12:10.57 | Guest80072 | where did i do that? |
| 12:11.08 | Guest80072 | nvm, not important |
| 12:11.54 | Guest80072 | found the line where it hooks it |
| 12:11.56 | Guest80072 | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:12.11 | foxlit | so yeah, apparently you can. |
| 12:12.25 | Guest80072 | ;) |
| 12:12.29 | Guest80072 | oki |
| 12:12.46 | Guest80072 | any chance of looking at the script if i can hook it? |
| 12:13.01 | foxlit | There is, however, no script |
| 12:13.13 | foxlit | They're all using HookScript because otherwise they'd break each other's scripts. |
| 12:13.23 | foxlit | Not because there's something secure there that you need to bother with. |
| 12:13.49 | Guest80072 | so i could technically use a normal hook |
| 12:14.59 | Guest80072 | well, that's really all I wanted to know |
| 12:15.02 | Guest80072 | thanks foxlit! |
| 12:15.14 | Guest80072 | ILY <3 |
| 12:17.15 | Torhal | "Even Blizzard hasn't thought of this." <-- ORLY? |
| 12:17.34 | haste | where would they use that anyway? |
| 12:17.39 | Torhal | Exactly. |
| 12:17.59 | foxlit | Though, looking at who hooked it, both Grid and AVR thought of it. |
| 12:18.08 | foxlit | http://www.go-hero.net/box/vote.png << I wonder what the wowi forums are telling me |
| 12:18.13 | Torhal | I do it with Volumizer. |
| 12:18.26 | Torhal | Though I should clean it up - I'm not using HookScript() |
| 12:20.10 | Torhal | Another time - my son has woken up, so I might actually be able to get comfortable enough to sleep. |
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| 13:08.31 | olafski | oh how I Hate pvp |
| 13:08.51 | olafski | just give me my purple drake for some carebear achievements already :P |
| 13:13.57 | foxlit | I want you out of my battleground. |
| 13:13.59 | foxlit | Yesterday! |
| 13:14.53 | olafski | just let me capture the flag ;) |
| 13:15.19 | foxlit | You can't capture the flag while we hold no bases. |
| 13:15.21 | foxlit | <3 |
| 13:15.42 | olafski | yeah :( |
| 13:16.05 | olafski | where do you have to stand to capture the flag? I was in between the two flags at a base and it didn't cap yet.. then I died :P |
| 13:16.09 | olafski | guess I have to do this pvp shit all day |
| 13:17.13 | foxlit | There's generally a cog. |
| 13:18.51 | foxlit | Think I made a mistake buying healer PvP gear. |
| 13:19.01 | *** join/#wowuidev wereHamster (~tomc@caurea.org) |
| 13:19.53 | foxlit | Leaves me with a choice of using the proper spec and watching all the dps teammates failing horrible, or be useless as DPS myself |
| 13:23.37 | olafski | my gf just capped the flag without orphan out :( |
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| 13:25.14 | Wobin | olafski, ow |
| 13:27.11 | olafski | yeah.. unlucky.. she's a holy priest with no pvp gear so the odds of capping another are low :P |
| 13:32.11 | Fisker | Wobin |
| 13:32.17 | Fisker | imma fuck you up |
| 13:32.56 | Wobin | tell it to someone who cares |
| 13:34.20 | jadakren | lololololol |
| 13:34.59 | jadakren | guess that was a drive-by-fiskering |
| 13:35.50 | jadakren | book about fisker : http://www.amazon.com/When-Wind-Changed-Ruth-Park/dp/0207167613 |
| 13:36.39 | jadakren | "There was this boy named Josh. He could do lots of things. There was one thing he could do best of all. He could make faces." |
| 13:36.47 | jadakren | then the wind changed |
| 13:36.55 | jadakren | Now he is called fisker. |
| 13:37.01 | Wobin | I remember that book |
| 13:37.09 | jadakren | its ancient |
| 13:38.06 | Fisker | your disregard for your own life is admirable |
| 13:38.41 | jadakren | yes this is why i visit this channel |
| 13:38.48 | jadakren | it beats using a wing suit |
| 13:39.14 | jadakren | you seen those things...pure ownage. |
| 13:48.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 13:52.24 | olafski | I imagine people like me also make battlegrounds unbearable for people who do enjoy pvp.. :) |
| 13:54.18 | Kraps | what do you mean? |
| 13:54.59 | olafski | in sota, about 10 people from each side camp the flag |
| 13:55.34 | olafski | and I imagine in WSG everybody is defending |
| 13:56.37 | Kraps | you're talking about childrens week? |
| 13:57.05 | olafski | yeah |
| 13:57.25 | olafski | I just want to capture a flag in sota, gonna /afk out right after.. but I'm not alone and nobody is capturing bases :P |
| 13:57.28 | Kraps | :( thats what i was afraid of |
| 13:57.55 | olafski | they should take this thing out of the meta or allow "assist caps" to count too imo =) |
| 13:58.04 | olafski | less frustrating for everybody |
| 13:58.11 | foxlit | sota = eots |
| 13:58.16 | olafski | oh fine |
| 13:58.27 | olafski | I don't know those new-ish BGs.. only the vanilla ones |
| 13:58.53 | Kraps | eots is newish? :o |
| 13:59.00 | olafski | it's not vanilla :P |
| 13:59.21 | Kraps | its my fave bg btw |
| 13:59.35 | olafski | I think AB is my favourite |
| 13:59.44 | olafski | if you can speak of a favourite .. guess I hate AB the least |
| 14:00.55 | foxlit | People who designed cannons in sota and ioc need to be slapped. |
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| 14:01.27 | foxlit | "Hey, let's make them rock a bit while idle. That totally won't mess up the targetting" |
| 14:01.28 | Kraps | so i'm gonna have to put gearing my priest on hold for a week? |
| 14:04.26 | olafski | woot got my eots flag :D |
| 14:04.39 | foxlit | IOC in particular hurts with its cannon placement |
| 14:04.45 | foxlit | Half the time you end up hitting the tower floor. |
| 14:13.13 | Fisker | i keel u |
| 14:19.44 | Kraps | This only reflects damage for your shield cast on you. If you cast the shield on others, it will not reflect. |
| 14:19.48 | Kraps | I HATE YOU |
| 14:23.00 | Kraps | THERE GOES ANOTHER 25G THAT I DONT HAVE |
| 14:23.40 | olafski | aww keyboard turner cat druid in pvp |
| 14:25.10 | Shirik | Kraps |
| 14:25.13 | Shirik | no need to be angry |
| 14:26.23 | Kraps | You're not the one who has to make a workable pvp build on 90g |
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| 14:32.25 | *** join/#wowuidev amro (~amro@41.102.212.218) |
| 14:34.50 | jadakren | lol |
| 14:34.52 | jadakren | who lives in Philadelphia and knows of the parking inspectors there. |
| 14:35.45 | jadakren | nomnom rage : http://fucktheppa.com/?p=3 |
| 14:37.55 | jadakren | makes me glad i don't own a car |
| 14:38.25 | jadakren | with cynical public officals like that around... |
| 14:43.19 | *** part/#wowuidev Nerik (Bill@68-116-175-151.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) |
| 14:43.31 | Shirik | professional photographers of america? |
| 14:45.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~cide@c213-100-51-33.swipnet.se) |
| 14:45.48 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 14:47.30 | Wobin | wow, there's a lot of vitriol just in Phillidelphia =P |
| 14:54.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Dagmar (1000@c-98-193-180-167.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 14:54.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Dagmar (1000@unaffiliated/dagmar) |
| 15:00.14 | *** join/#wowuidev L4x4t0r (~dada@AMontsouris-153-1-85-16.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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| 15:11.32 | Cide | hi Shirik |
| 15:12.03 | MatthewWW_Away | Is there any way to queue audio files using PlaySoundFile so that they don't play on top of each othr? |
| 15:12.05 | MatthewWW_Away | other* |
| 15:19.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Lozon (~nl@CPE0018f85e6502-CM001a66710456.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
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| 15:20.33 | Wobin | MatthewWW_Away, not afaik |
| 15:20.49 | Wobin | but if you know how long they are, you can probably put in a timer to play them at the right time |
| 15:21.08 | *** join/#wowuidev jacobeiting (~jacobeiti@cpe-75-187-56-220.columbus.res.rr.com) |
| 15:36.59 | Kraps | any priests here? http://www.wowhead.com/talent#bxcbuIuVRIoffRtfx0c |
| 15:36.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Esamynn|Away (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Esamynn) |
| 15:36.59 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Esamynn|Away] by ChanServ |
| 15:40.44 | kd3 | wtfs at fark |
| 15:40.55 | kd3 | "House floats off its foundation down to a lake by Nashville that... seems to be filled with cars... wait, what's that? Oh, that lake is actually Interstate 24 (with video) [Fail]" |
| 15:42.05 | alestane | Link? |
| 15:42.29 | kd3 | http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/weather/2010/05/01/vo.nashville.flooding.cnn |
| 15:42.53 | Wobin | Kraps, http://www.wowhead.com/profile=us.nagrand.rikitikitavi#talents is mine |
| 15:42.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Alleidun (~blob@0x5738c27d.rdnqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 15:43.24 | Kraps | Wobin: pvp |
| 15:43.31 | Wobin | Kraps, yeah, just noticed that |
| 15:44.51 | Wobin | Kraps, it's tough, there are so many nice pvp talents in the discipline tree |
| 15:45.02 | Kraps | i know :( |
| 15:45.18 | Wobin | Martyrdom and Silent Resolve are both useful =\ |
| 15:46.09 | Wobin | -maaaybe- swap out rapture |
| 15:46.14 | Wobin | for other talent |
| 15:46.15 | Wobin | s |
| 15:47.06 | Kraps | idk, mana is an issue with disc, and healing focus > martyrdom |
| 15:47.42 | Wobin | although Martyrdom also has the reduction in interrupts |
| 15:48.31 | Kraps | but its a proc and healing focus is always on + 70% |
| 15:49.07 | Kraps | i think my question is Desperate Prayer vs Improved Mana Burn |
| 15:50.04 | Kraps | Rikitikitavi :) |
| 15:50.04 | Wobin | ^^ |
| 15:50.23 | Wobin | I would say DP has more usage than ImpMB |
| 15:50.28 | Wobin | toolkit wise |
| 15:50.42 | Kraps | i loved reading the final fight |
| 15:50.52 | Kraps | it gave me the willies |
| 15:51.07 | Kraps | so much violence! |
| 15:53.30 | Wobin | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgo0CDL6bd0&feature=player_embedded |
| 15:53.33 | Wobin | oh man, she's awesome |
| 15:53.42 | Wobin | the 5th Element Diva song... by human =P |
| 15:57.31 | Kraps | shit, not enough points |
| 15:57.39 | Kraps | wtb moar |
| 15:58.52 | *** join/#wowuidev spode- (spode@213.21.119.83) |
| 15:59.39 | Kraps | remove Absolution |
| 16:00.24 | Kraps | Wobin: Improved Flash Heal + glyph works for you ok? |
| 16:00.38 | Wobin | for pve certainly |
| 16:00.52 | Wobin | I use it a lot more than PoM |
| 16:01.11 | Kraps | same for me in pvp |
| 16:01.11 | A-KO | man I should have been a chick |
| 16:01.20 | Wobin | Mostly because due to shields, PoM tends to get stuck in corners |
| 16:01.25 | Wobin | (where corners == pets) |
| 16:01.31 | A-KO | just gotta look pretty and get shit given to you :P and get all sorts of time to sit around and learn completely and utterly useless talents |
| 16:01.51 | Wobin | A-KO, just find a sugar mommy |
| 16:01.58 | Wobin | I believe they're called cougars =) |
| 16:05.43 | Wobin | Kraps, FlashHeal spam keeps a target up surprisingly well |
| 16:06.08 | Wobin | Especially while you're waiting for the weakened soul debuff to fall off so you can reshield =P |
| 16:06.26 | Wobin | Although, as Disc, I'm finding with over geared pally tanks, I have to stop shielding them entirely =( |
| 16:06.38 | Wobin | and just heal them |
| 16:06.51 | Wobin | otherwise we end up sitting down each pull and drinking =P |
| 16:09.54 | Wobin | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVifEvlIBBo&feature=player_embedded |
| 16:10.04 | Wobin | I would totally name my horse something like that, just for the commentary |
| 16:15.06 | olafski | ah it was such a long, strange trip.. and an ugly drake but at least it's 310% :P |
| 16:15.14 | Kraps | grats! |
| 16:15.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (~Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 16:16.03 | olafski | will be nice when they add that option to "learn" 310% so all your mounts get it |
| 16:17.10 | Wobin | omg, I want this shirt: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_SqhhJb_P3Kk/S92KryGKOSI/AAAAAAAALws/oJbCc_QdT8I/s1600/raptor+shirt.jpg |
| 16:17.24 | Wobin | olafski, doesn't the sparklepony scale to your max mount? |
| 16:22.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Stew-a (~Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 16:24.07 | foxlit | the pony does |
| 16:24.57 | Wobin | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQZR2r2Wjhw&feature=player_embedded |
| 16:25.06 | Wobin | I think the work he puts into the background is pretty awesome |
| 16:25.48 | olafski | wobin: I don't have a sparklepony :P |
| 16:26.11 | Wobin | olafski, you -could-! |
| 16:26.14 | olafski | was going to get one but then I visited dalaran within an hour after it was released |
| 16:26.22 | olafski | sure |
| 16:26.35 | olafski | but they said in cataclysm they might make all 280% mounts scale to 310% if you buy that skill |
| 16:26.43 | olafski | which presumably has a requirement that you have at least one 310% mount already |
| 16:43.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (~Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 16:43.57 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 16:46.30 | MatthewWW_Away | Since there doesn't seem to be an IsSoundPlaying() or similar, how could I implement a timer if I know how long the sound files are? |
| 16:46.55 | Iriel | Some combination of GetTime() and OnUpdate |
| 16:47.15 | MatthewWW_Away | That seems so bootstrap, is there nothing to determine when a file stops playing o_o |
| 16:47.54 | Iriel | I suspect it's that most of the time it's not important, so there was no need to build that kind of complex infrastructure |
| 16:48.22 | Iriel | The UI rarely cares when a sound finishes, it's primarily concerned with emitting sounds to signify important UI events |
| 16:48.47 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 16:49.09 | MatthewWW_Away | Might there be some way to construct that type of function? |
| 16:49.49 | Iriel | To detect the end of a sound file? I dont think so, there's no event or query mechanism |
| 16:49.59 | Kraps | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:50.02 | Iriel | Blizzard would need to do it, and I suspect they'd need to be given a compelling argument as to why |
| 16:50.24 | Iriel | Maintaining a countdown timer in OnUpdate is fairly 'clean' really |
| 16:54.45 | *** join/#wowuidev robotusch (~robotusch@50A2E67F.flatrate.dk) |
| 16:54.51 | MatthewWW_Away | @Iriel: I'm not sure how I'd do that.. Basically what happens in my script is every time TUTORIAL_TRIGGER occurs, it triggers a sound instead of the default tutorial by unregistering the Tutorial event from TutorialFrame. |
| 16:55.07 | MatthewWW_Away | So, it would need to not only play the sound instead, but not play them on top of each other, and queue them somehow |
| 16:56.32 | Iriel | My KillCounter addon does that |
| 16:57.01 | Iriel | Grab it from wowinterface and look at the top of KillCounterEvent.lua |
| 16:57.18 | Iriel | KC_OnUpdate and FireEvent |
| 16:57.29 | Kraps | i just killed a rogue all by myself using 2 dots |
| 16:57.32 | Iriel | It's written for one sound, and a fixed interval, but you should get the idea |
| 16:58.22 | alestane | Basic format is to make a frame and register its OnUpdate script: [[local timer = 0; frame:SetScript('OnUpdate', function (self, elapsed) timer = timer - elapsed; if timer <= 0 then do(something); self:Hide() end end function startTimer(time) timer = time; frame:Show() end]] |
| 17:03.44 | alestane | Note: A frame's OnUpdate script is only run when the frame is "visible," but the frame doesn't actually have to contain any frames or textures you can see, or even have any dimensions or be anchored to anything. |
| 17:05.02 | MatthewWW_Away | In Kill Counter, I assume RING_INTERVAL is the amount of time between sounds firing? |
| 17:05.21 | Iriel | Yep |
| 17:05.29 | Iriel | It seems to be a minimum for WoW |
| 17:05.38 | Iriel | Regardless of the length of the sound |
| 17:06.00 | Iriel | (Or else the bell sample is longer than it 'should' be) |
| 17:08.18 | MatthewWW_Away | @iriel I'm so bad at this, I'm trying to figure out how to do something similar in my addon and my brain is just exploding |
| 17:11.27 | MatthewWW_Away | @Iriel: Oh |
| 17:11.34 | MatthewWW_Away | @Iriel: There's a problem between yours and mine. |
| 17:11.44 | MatthewWW_Away | @Iriel: The ID of the sound changes each time it's fired. |
| 17:12.25 | Iriel | So use a table to store the queue |
| 17:12.48 | MatthewWW_Away | hrrrrm |
| 17:13.08 | Iriel | table.insert and table.remove are your friend |
| 17:13.50 | MatthewWW_Away | http://pastey.net/135970 is what I've got |
| 17:13.52 | MatthewWW_Away | Thoughts? |
| 17:16.37 | Thrae | Anyone here know about the Recruit-A-Friend / Referrals in more depth? I notice I have on my "Current Referrals" page my Family's account, but they never paid for 2 months of service. If they do so now, would I get the Rocket Mount? |
| 17:17.12 | alestane | You're leaking globals, MatthewWW_Away. |
| 17:17.50 | MatthewWW_Away | Oh I know, +alestane |
| 17:20.15 | alestane | So http://pastey.net/135971 would be my edits so far. |
| 17:22.17 | MatthewWW | I've implemented them. Thanks for cleaning it up |
| 17:22.35 | MatthewWW | Now I'm thinking I should create a function that works with OnUpdate instead of just using PlaySoundFile |
| 17:22.41 | MatthewWW | and that function checks to see if there are sounds pending and waits etc |
| 17:23.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~cide@c213-100-51-33.swipnet.se) |
| 17:23.48 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 17:24.14 | Iriel | MatthewWW: Yes, exactly what you need |
| 17:26.04 | MatthewWW | Alright, let me brain it out and get back to you guys |
| 17:26.06 | MatthewWW | thanks for the help |
| 17:27.00 | Shirik | Kraps... |
| 17:27.12 | Shirik | you need to check out question #6 |
| 17:27.27 | Cide | oh hi Shirik |
| 17:27.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Zyonin (~Zyonin@93-38-40-59.ip68.fastwebnet.it) |
| 17:27.29 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Zyonin] by ChanServ |
| 17:27.31 | Shirik | oh hi Cide |
| 17:27.34 | Cide | can I tell you my revelation now? |
| 17:27.36 | Shirik | uh |
| 17:27.41 | Shirik | I guess? |
| 17:27.45 | Cide | good! |
| 17:27.48 | Cide | you were so afk yesterday |
| 17:27.53 | Shirik | when |
| 17:28.03 | Cide | all the time! |
| 17:31.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~cide@c213-100-51-33.swipnet.se) |
| 17:31.50 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 17:35.14 | MatthewWW | hmmmm |
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| 17:35.42 | MatthewWW | http://pastey.net/135972 This still doesn't seem to work |
| 17:35.46 | MatthewWW | but I could have effed it up |
| 17:36.41 | MatthewWW | Yea I think I effed it up |
| 17:37.32 | MatthewWW | first obvious mistake is I didn't switch the function name at the bottom |
| 17:37.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (~Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 17:39.05 | MatthewWW | Updates: http://pastey.net/135972 |
| 17:41.13 | MatthewWW | Yea I think I'm stuck atm. I can't figure out why it's not working, but I'll bet dollars to dimes it's something obvious |
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| 17:50.30 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 17:55.49 | MatthewWW | Yet more updates: This seems to get stuck in a loop. Any ideas +alestane, @Iriel ? http://pastey.net/135978 |
| 17:59.04 | Cide | you can skip the + and @ :) |
| 17:59.13 | MatthewWW | oh |
| 17:59.16 | MatthewWW | I just hit tab lol |
| 17:59.25 | Cide | but please refer to me as <awesome>Cide |
| 17:59.33 | Cide | where does it get stuck? |
| 17:59.44 | MatthewWW | I have no idea, it just either plays nothing, or plays infinitely |
| 17:59.53 | MatthewWW | not a loop like a crashy loop, a loop like doing the same thing over and over again lol |
| 18:01.00 | Cide | ha, I've never seen anyone turn a comment into an arrow |
| 18:01.06 | Cide | that's kinda funny |
| 18:01.18 | MatthewWW | heh |
| 18:01.42 | Cide | can you describe the problem a bit more in detail? |
| 18:01.50 | MatthewWW | sure one second |
| 18:01.57 | Thrae | Haha, people are annoyed at my "DontDazeMeBro" spamming whispers at them (every 30 seconds) for using Crusader Aura in the heat of a tough PvP battle |
| 18:01.58 | Cide | oh |
| 18:02.09 | MatthewWW | So |
| 18:02.15 | Cide | MatthewWW: I think I figured it out |
| 18:02.21 | Cide | you check for tutorialTable[i] to be set |
| 18:02.24 | Cide | but you never unset it |
| 18:02.33 | foxlit | Thrae: by proxy, that makes you a bad person. |
| 18:02.34 | MatthewWW | well there's problem one |
| 18:02.35 | Cide | so once set, it is continually set and thus keeps playing |
| 18:03.14 | MatthewWW | Alright so I added tutorialTable[i] = nil after playTutorialSound(tutorialTable[i]) |
| 18:03.38 | Cide | I think a better approach would be to unset it inside playTutorialSound |
| 18:03.43 | MatthewWW | ok. |
| 18:03.46 | Cide | hmm no |
| 18:03.48 | Cide | that's a worse approach |
| 18:03.50 | MatthewWW | lol |
| 18:03.51 | Cide | yours is better |
| 18:03.53 | MatthewWW | ok well then I'll leave it as is |
| 18:03.58 | MatthewWW | Ok so now it doesn't play infinitely |
| 18:04.00 | MatthewWW | but it doesn't work eitehr |
| 18:04.07 | MatthewWW | it's supposed to put 10 seconds between each file |
| 18:04.11 | MatthewWW | and play them until there are no more in queue |
| 18:04.15 | MatthewWW | atm, they just play in a jumble |
| 18:04.37 | MatthewWW | ..and sometimes don't play at all |
| 18:05.03 | Cide | you might want to put in a return after setting it to nil |
| 18:05.21 | Cide | so that playTutorialSound() is not called more than once per loop |
| 18:05.33 | MatthewWW | trying that |
| 18:06.12 | MatthewWW | Okay, new change is - it only plays one and never plays the rest |
| 18:06.15 | MatthewWW | no jumble this time |
| 18:06.33 | Cide | do you have /dump? |
| 18:06.43 | Cide | if so do /dump tutorialTable |
| 18:06.51 | Cide | it should show you which sounds are pending |
| 18:07.29 | MatthewWW | I can just do /wowLua for i=0,60 print(tutorialTable[i]) end |
| 18:07.42 | Cide | then you would get a bunch of nils too |
| 18:07.45 | Cide | harder to scan |
| 18:08.17 | Cide | but either way |
| 18:08.31 | MatthewWW | So theoretically there are 4 pending |
| 18:08.47 | Cide | can you update the code? |
| 18:08.59 | Cide | with your recent version |
| 18:09.07 | MatthewWW | http://pastey.net/135981 |
| 18:09.54 | MatthewWW | I don't think I should set next event to nil right off the bat |
| 18:09.59 | Cide | you should |
| 18:10.00 | MatthewWW | then OnUpdate never gets called |
| 18:10.16 | Cide | OnUpdate gets continually called |
| 18:10.19 | MatthewWW | right |
| 18:10.22 | MatthewWW | but the stuff inside it doesn't |
| 18:10.28 | Cide | yes it does |
| 18:10.29 | MatthewWW | because it starts with if nextEvent then |
| 18:10.32 | MatthewWW | which is false |
| 18:10.32 | Cide | yes |
| 18:10.35 | Cide | but you never unset nextEvent |
| 18:10.51 | Cide | however |
| 18:10.52 | Cide | oh |
| 18:10.57 | MatthewWW | see? |
| 18:10.58 | MatthewWW | lol |
| 18:11.04 | Cide | the code isn't technically wrong |
| 18:11.47 | Cide | hmm it shouldn't be wrong as it is |
| 18:12.31 | MatthewWW | yep |
| 18:12.36 | MatthewWW | setting it to nextEvent = 1 fixed it |
| 18:12.37 | Cide | well, there is one problem |
| 18:12.43 | Cide | you set nextEvent inside the loop |
| 18:12.52 | Cide | but getting into the loop requires nextEvent to be set |
| 18:12.59 | Cide | I don't see how it could have played one sound at all |
| 18:13.38 | MatthewWW | I had an else in there before |
| 18:13.48 | MatthewWW | changing the initial setup of nextEvent to 1 seems to have fixed this |
| 18:14.00 | Cide | yes, that will do |
| 18:14.07 | Cide | and then you can remove the if (nextEvent) then |
| 18:14.16 | Cide | and also the if (nextEvent) then return end |
| 18:15.46 | MatthewWW | Is there a "getLength" or something for a file? |
| 18:15.48 | MatthewWW | by any chance? |
| 18:15.52 | Cide | nope |
| 18:15.53 | MatthewWW | Because some files are very long and some are very short |
| 18:16.13 | Cide | that would allow you to get information into wow very easily |
| 18:16.31 | MatthewWW | Suppose that's true |
| 18:16.53 | MatthewWW | Final question for awhile mr. helpful! |
| 18:16.55 | Cide | anyway, you would have to hardcode that information into a table |
| 18:17.02 | MatthewWW | Oh, I could do that |
| 18:17.03 | MatthewWW | cool idea |
| 18:17.09 | MatthewWW | last one! |
| 18:17.12 | Cide | sure |
| 18:17.25 | MatthewWW | WOW Internally stores the tutorials that have been triggered by the player as a part of TutorialFrame |
| 18:17.36 | MatthewWW | You'll notice that in this addon I unregister TUTORIAL_TRIGGER from TutorialFrame |
| 18:18.06 | MatthewWW | As a result, WOW doesn't remember when a tutorial has been triggered |
| 18:18.12 | MatthewWW | meaning every time the player logs into the game, they hear the same tutorials |
| 18:18.19 | MatthewWW | I don't want this to happen. Any way to fix it? |
| 18:18.32 | nevcairiel | dont unregister :) |
| 18:18.40 | MatthewWW | have to, don't want it to display visually |
| 18:18.50 | nevcairiel | or figure out what its doing and replicate that |
| 18:18.56 | MatthewWW | I was thinking make tutorialTable a global variable and use a saved variable |
| 18:19.04 | Cide | well, there are other ways you can hack that |
| 18:19.15 | MatthewWW | then do if tutorialTable[x] = "done" or whatever, don't play the file |
| 18:19.19 | Cide | TutorialFrame:SetScript("OnShow", function(self) self:Hide(); end) |
| 18:19.53 | MatthewWW | As opposed to the unregister? |
| 18:20.03 | Cide | yes |
| 18:20.20 | Cide | that would just hide it any time something would try to show it |
| 18:20.44 | MatthewWW | I'll test it by logging in and logging out |
| 18:21.08 | Kraps | ~weather jfk |
| 18:21.25 | MatthewWW | cool |
| 18:21.28 | MatthewWW | ~weather YYT |
| 18:21.34 | Kraps | ooh im to noobtastic for purl |
| 18:21.35 | MatthewWW | pff |
| 18:22.22 | Kraps | ~weather kjfk |
| 18:22.42 | MatthewWW | kjfk? |
| 18:22.46 | MatthewWW | Isn't it just JFK? |
| 18:22.54 | Kraps | http://weather.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/nsd_state_lookup.pl |
| 18:23.29 | MatthewWW | Ah |
| 18:23.33 | MatthewWW | ~weather cyyt |
| 18:23.37 | Kraps | its fucking hot outside |
| 18:23.44 | Shirik | ~weather kdab |
| 18:23.44 | MatthewWW | Not so hot here. |
| 18:23.55 | Shirik | I believe I win |
| 18:23.57 | Adys | Shirik: How do you get [5, 6] from 96? |
| 18:24.05 | Adys | knowing that 5**2 + 6**2 == 96 |
| 18:24.05 | MatthewWW | it's 3 c here sir |
| 18:24.08 | Adys | er |
| 18:24.12 | Adys | 2**5 + 2**6 |
| 18:24.13 | MatthewWW | btw, Cide, I love you. |
| 18:24.32 | Shirik | Adys I have no idea what you're talking about |
| 18:24.44 | Adys | Shirik: I have 96, I want to get the list 5, 6 |
| 18:25.13 | Adys | the simplest way possible |
| 18:25.30 | Shirik | why 5,6 |
| 18:25.40 | Adys | because 2**5 + 2**6 = 96 |
| 18:25.42 | Shirik | ok |
| 18:26.05 | Zyonin | Greetings channel dwellers |
| 18:26.05 | MatthewWW | Here's my larger one full of bugs if anyone's interested in helping me pick it apart |
| 18:26.06 | MatthewWW | http://pastey.net/135985 |
| 18:26.07 | MatthewWW | Taking a shower |
| 18:26.10 | Adys | Hello Zyonin |
| 18:26.11 | Shirik | 5log(2) + 6log(2) = log(96) |
| 18:26.29 | Shirik | 5 + 6 = log(96) / log(2) |
| 18:26.41 | Shirik | lua> math.log(96) / math.log(2) |
| 18:26.41 | lua_bot | Shirik: 6.5849625007212 |
| 18:26.45 | Shirik | ok I did something wrong |
| 18:26.51 | Shirik | oh |
| 18:26.53 | Shirik | yeah |
| 18:27.02 | foxlit | Yeah. |
| 18:27.04 | Shirik | it's 5log(2)*6log(2) |
| 18:27.11 | Shirik | no |
| 18:27.12 | Shirik | not even that |
| 18:27.13 | Shirik | baoipawfea |
| 18:27.14 | Shirik | 3wif |
| 18:27.14 | foxlit | Very yeah. |
| 18:27.28 | Fisker | hey Shirik |
| 18:27.30 | foxlit | The, "oops, I just violated the basic rules of arithmetic" yeah |
| 18:27.31 | Fisker | i hey u |
| 18:27.36 | Shirik | log(2^5+2^6) = log(96) |
| 18:28.09 | foxlit | It's 5^2, not 2^5 |
| 18:28.15 | Kraps | http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2010/april/nobeta_small.jpg |
| 18:28.17 | Shirik | it is? |
| 18:28.27 | foxlit | or not |
| 18:28.33 | Adys | Kraps: http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp188/Mordib/wutbeta.jpg |
| 18:28.35 | Shirik | log(2^5+2^6), log(96) |
| 18:28.37 | Shirik | lua> log(2^5+2^6), log(96) |
| 18:28.38 | lua_bot | Shirik: luabot:1: attempt to call global 'log' (a nil value) |
| 18:28.40 | Shirik | die |
| 18:28.45 | Shirik | lua> log = math.log; log(2^5+2^6), log(96) |
| 18:28.46 | lua_bot | Shirik: luabot:1: unexpected symbol near ',' |
| 18:28.49 | Shirik | omg die |
| 18:28.53 | Shirik | lua> log = math.log; return log(2^5+2^6), log(96) |
| 18:28.53 | lua_bot | Shirik: 4.5643481914678, 4.5643481914678 |
| 18:28.54 | foxlit | yeah, it's 2^ |
| 18:28.58 | Kraps | heh |
| 18:29.18 | Shirik | lua> log(2^5)log(2^6)? |
| 18:29.19 | lua_bot | Shirik: luabot:1: unexpected symbol near '?' |
| 18:29.20 | Shirik | lua> log(2^5)log(2^6) |
| 18:29.21 | lua_bot | Shirik: luabot:1: attempt to call global 'log' (a nil value) |
| 18:29.26 | Shirik | I give up |
| 18:29.28 | Shirik | fu lua_bot |
| 18:29.39 | Shirik | lua> math.log(2^5)*math.log(2^6) |
| 18:29.39 | lua_bot | Shirik: 14.413590417546 |
| 18:29.45 | Shirik | lua_bot needs to be more calculatory |
| 18:29.53 | Shirik | ok so what did I do wrong there ^ |
| 18:29.54 | foxlit | Your log is pointless, you can't get the plus out of it. |
| 18:30.02 | Shirik | oh I'm going backwards |
| 18:30.28 | Adys | well yeah i need to get it from 96 |
| 18:30.31 | foxlit | Of course, you could just point Adys to binary numbers. |
| 18:30.35 | Shirik | Adys, backwards |
| 18:30.47 | Shirik | it's often useful to go backwards then forwards |
| 18:32.06 | Adys | in python i can easily get it from [bit for bit in range(8) if (96 >> bit) & 1] |
| 18:32.07 | Adys | BUT |
| 18:32.11 | Adys | that seems hacky |
| 18:36.31 | Kraps | oh btw Shirik |
| 18:36.51 | Kraps | questioner 6 is a fucking moron |
| 18:37.11 | Shirik | lol |
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| 18:41.03 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Esamynn|Away] by ChanServ |
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| 18:44.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Transformer (~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net) |
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| 18:48.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Alram (~Marla@fabe.xs4all.nl) |
| 18:50.36 | Fisker | anyway Adys |
| 18:51.00 | Fisker | we all know that Blizzard will be denouncing mmo-champion tomorrow and claim they're responsible for all successful beta scams |
| 18:52.03 | Adys | if we all know that why are you telling us? |
| 18:52.19 | Maldivia | heh |
| 18:52.37 | Adys | Maldivia: fixed the spell category/subclass requirements :) |
| 18:52.45 | Adys | http://db.mmo-champion.com/spells/?required_item_subclasses=262156 / http://db.mmo-champion.com/spells/?required_item_subclasses=96 |
| 18:53.05 | Maldivia | so I see :) |
| 18:53.05 | Adys | http://db.mmo-champion.com/s/54615/aimed-shot/ and "Ranged Weapon" properly forwards to the correct filter |
| 18:53.24 | Adys | now just the hiding flag left |
| 18:53.46 | Maldivia | ahh yeah, that was the one we were looking for, when we found all the others :) |
| 18:53.55 | Adys | ya |
| 18:54.05 | Adys | and the shapeshift flag too =\ |
| 18:54.29 | Maldivia | which of the shapeshift flags? |
| 18:54.34 | Maldivia | ahh yeah, the hide |
| 18:56.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Diao (vince@adsl-99-2-151-0.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:02.40 | Maldivia | adys, think it's f1_0x10000 |
| 19:03.23 | Adys | umm |
| 19:03.25 | Adys | http://db.mmo-champion.com/s?flags_1__band=65536 |
| 19:03.28 | Adys | that? |
| 19:03.50 | Adys | has a bunch of irrelevant spells |
| 19:03.54 | Adys | unless... sec |
| 19:04.16 | Maldivia | hmm |
| 19:04.34 | Adys | nah |
| 19:04.37 | Adys | many irrelevant spells |
| 19:05.08 | Maldivia | yeah, but for some of the spells, it's the only flag |
| 19:06.40 | Adys | s/54675 has flags_3 at 524288 |
| 19:06.48 | Adys | any idea what those are? |
| 19:07.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Lozon (~nl@CPE0018f85e6502-CM001a66710456.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 19:15.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (amarande@68-191-37-155.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 19:15.51 | Amarande | hmm ... any of you work on x-perl at all? |
| 19:16.01 | Amarande | I'm starting to wonder what's up with this bug |
| 19:31.17 | Kaso | I just killed Coren Direbrew |
| 19:31.22 | Kaso | should i be able to do that now? |
| 19:33.31 | Fisker | no |
| 19:34.34 | olafski | oO? |
| 19:34.39 | Fisker | Oo |
| 19:34.41 | Kaso | intersting buf |
| 19:34.42 | Kaso | bug |
| 19:34.59 | olafski | I better go there :P |
| 19:35.06 | olafski | be nice to have a 170stam trinket |
| 19:37.03 | olafski | actually I don't think I can be bothered =( |
| 19:37.26 | Kaso | lol |
| 19:38.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Artimidorus121 (~Joey@99-37-10-115.lightspeed.gylkil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:39.07 | Artimidorus121 | is any one actually her today? |
| 19:39.44 | Maldivia | which "her" are you refering to ? |
| 19:40.06 | Artimidorus121 | lol i ment here |
| 19:40.28 | Amarande | "The LFD queue system is a godsend if you dont want to do those old world quests collecting bear scrotums and dig through poo for the 49th time." |
| 19:40.28 | Amarande | um |
| 19:40.35 | Amarande | I thought you didn't dig through poo till outland, not old world :) |
| 19:40.50 | Amarande | unless either a) I've missed a quest, or b) only alliance have to dig through poo before outland |
| 19:41.06 | Amarande | in which case a) I'm not missing much, or b) once again alliance sucks :D |
| 19:41.50 | Artimidorus121 | ok so got a addon problem is there a way to have the background image not resize when the frame resizes using xml? |
| 19:42.10 | MatthewWW | Very fast question. Why isn't this event working |
| 19:42.26 | Amarande | children's week? what's wrong with children's week? |
| 19:42.40 | Iriel | Artimidorus121: you'd have to write an OnSizeChanged handler and manually compensate |
| 19:43.08 | Iriel | Amarande: I dont rememember any pre-outland poo |
| 19:43.09 | MatthewWW | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:43.20 | Artimidorus121 | hmmm is there a good site that documents that command cause i am very new to this |
| 19:43.45 | Iriel | Artimidorus121: wowprogramming.co |
| 19:43.47 | Iriel | +m |
| 19:44.35 | MatthewWW | JIT_Trigger(19) never fires |
| 19:44.43 | Amarande | Iriel: why do people talk about "old world poo quests" then |
| 19:44.43 | Artimidorus121 | ok thanks what im trying to do is make a health bar thats not the standard bar shap its actually a orb |
| 19:44.47 | Amarande | outland is not old world, outland is outland :P |
| 19:44.51 | Amarande | old world = 1-61 |
| 19:45.05 | Cide | 1-58 nowadays |
| 19:45.14 | Amarande | or 1-58 if you're one of those folks who likes to rush to digging through poo :P |
| 19:45.22 | Cide | who doesn't? |
| 19:45.35 | Artimidorus121 | thanks for your help Iriel |
| 19:45.37 | Amarande | I find those two extra levels are dirt easy to get now in old world, and they also provide a nice comfort buffer aggro-wise |
| 19:45.47 | Amarande | especially when you start getting to parts like zeth'gor |
| 19:45.54 | Amarande | zeth'gor before 61 or so is the very model of pain |
| 19:45.59 | Fisker | Iriel i did it |
| 19:46.17 | Cide | too bad 1-58 is so boring in comparison |
| 19:46.29 | Amarande | besides, go at 61 and you don't have to worry about getting a group for Blacktalon |
| 19:46.38 | Amarande | (sadly, you still need a group for the colossi. even at 70 those are a problem.) |
| 19:47.18 | Arrowmaster | Artimidorus121: it might not be possible currently, blizzard broke some of the texture handling stuff last patch |
| 19:47.32 | Amarande | although granted, I do think I remember using a potion and an herbalism bubble on blacktalon |
| 19:47.35 | Amarande | although I forgot I had lifeblood |
| 19:48.10 | Amarande | Cide: 1-20 maybe. 20-58 is fun |
| 19:48.11 | Amarande | well, 20-60 or 61 for me |
| 19:48.33 | Amarande | I usually have a fairly set in my ways routine of what I do in old world, and with all the nerfs I usually wind up at 60-62 before hitting outland |
| 19:48.54 | Amarande | that and I went to outland at 58 on one character, my priest, and it wasn't fun |
| 19:49.05 | Arrowmaster | i went at 58 on my rogue |
| 19:49.14 | Arrowmaster | wasn't fun, hellboars raped me |
| 19:49.15 | Amarande | that's different, you have stealth :P |
| 19:49.22 | Amarande | and yeah, 58 still isn't fun for anyone |
| 19:50.18 | Arrowmaster | then i got a HWL sword, respeced sub and went back sword hemo with cheat death and got my revenge at 60 |
| 19:50.18 | Artimidorus121 | arrowmaster i have an addon that i think does it called d3 orb what im trying to do is remake the orbs so that they are not using ouf or anyother unit frame addon |
| 19:50.25 | Artimidorus121 | if its not doing it that way then im not sure how to create the same effect |
| 19:50.37 | Shirik | o.o http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Times_Square_car_bomb_attempt |
| 19:50.45 | Shirik | I need to watch the news more |
| 19:50.49 | Shirik | it's sad that I'm learning news from WP |
| 19:50.51 | Amarande | Arrow: lemme guess, you were also lucky enough to do this while Cheat Death was broken, too? |
| 19:50.53 | Artimidorus121 | also how would icehud so the curved heathbar |
| 19:51.19 | Amarande | back when it basically made you invincible for ten seconds? |
| 19:51.31 | *** part/#wowuidev Artimidorus121 (~Joey@99-37-10-115.lightspeed.gylkil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:51.41 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: dont think so |
| 19:51.53 | Amarande | there was apparently one patch where it got bugged to reduce damage by 99% instead of 90 |
| 19:51.54 | Arrowmaster | but it was before they changed it to make it completely useless for anybody not max level |
| 19:52.15 | Amarande | and it actually took a surprisingly long time to fix, apparently because it needed non-trivial modifications to the engine to do so |
| 19:53.10 | Arrowmaster | well this was the time when my friend was pvping in his pve gear with dual warglavies |
| 19:53.47 | Amarande | you can get away with that with enough burst DPS :S |
| 19:54.03 | Arrowmaster | then they made cheat death based on resiliance |
| 19:54.13 | Amarande | remember, the best way to avoid crits is and always has been to make the enemy die before they can hit you. :D |
| 19:54.41 | Amarande | wonder if they'll change it again to make it more pve viable again in cata, since resil is being made *strictly* a PvP stat now |
| 19:55.14 | MatthewWW | Guys and gals: I have -->Doesn't work above all of the things in this code that seem to be broken http://pastey.net/135990 |
| 19:55.23 | MatthewWW | Any ideas are more appreciated than you can imagine |
| 19:56.06 | Amarande | "If a Hunter shows up wearing a +STA robe, cloth shoulders and a chance on hit proc melee weapon, theyll not only be fun to talk about over vent with your friends but will most likely have their awesome raptor pet (named Raptor, of course) on aggressive to make the run that much more chaotic." |
| 19:58.27 | Arrowmaster | MatthewWW: i know something in wow is currently broken with registering and unregistering events while they are running, might be the issue with TUTORIAL_TRIGGER |
| 19:59.14 | Cide | Shirik: yes, yes it is |
| 19:59.26 | Amarande | bah. still 8 hours left on my minor inscription research CD |
| 19:59.44 | Amarande | Arrow: could that be the reason why x-perl sometimes bugs up, btw? |
| 19:59.45 | MatthewWW | @Arrowmaster: But the thousands of other TUTORIAL_TRIGGERs I call seem to work |
| 19:59.54 | Amarande | you know, the infamous "I'm at full health and then I die" x-perl bug :) |
| 20:00.23 | Arrowmaster | there a tread about it on the wowace forums |
| 20:00.37 | MatthewWW | Well what if instead of registering and unregistering, I hide and show the frame? |
| 20:00.40 | MatthewWW | Should that avoid that issue? |
| 20:00.49 | Iriel | I wouldnt worry about unregistering the event |
| 20:00.54 | Iriel | Just dont act on it if you dont need to |
| 20:01.02 | MatthewWW | Sorry, I don't know what you mea |
| 20:01.03 | MatthewWW | n |
| 20:01.32 | Cide | Iriel: it's an external frame |
| 20:01.35 | Cide | namely TutorialFrame |
| 20:01.38 | Cide | he doesn't want it to display |
| 20:01.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Droolio (~drool@87-194-188-170.bethere.co.uk) |
| 20:02.04 | Cide | but if he unregisters it blizzard's code doesn't keep track of the tutorial's state |
| 20:02.20 | Iriel | Oh, I see |
| 20:02.32 | Iriel | Well, rather than unregister it, perhaps replace the script handler |
| 20:02.55 | Iriel | I would hope the tutorial frame isn't protected |
| 20:03.02 | Cide | me too |
| 20:03.59 | MatthewWW | So this would be the way to replace the script : TutorialFrame:SetScript("OnShow", function(self) self:Hide(); end) |
| 20:04.12 | Iriel | You could do that |
| 20:04.16 | MatthewWW | But now how do I set it BACK to being able to show for a second, when JIT_Trigger fires? |
| 20:04.17 | Iriel | Or you could replace the OnEvent |
| 20:04.29 | Iriel | do your thing, then call theirs |
| 20:04.47 | MatthewWW | I mean, what is the opposite of TutorialFrame:SetScript("OnShow", function(self) self:Hide(); end) |
| 20:05.05 | MatthewWW | TutorialFrame:SetScript("OnShow", function(self); end) ? |
| 20:05.10 | Iriel | SetScript:("OnShow", nil) |
| 20:05.14 | MatthewWW | ;) |
| 20:05.15 | MatthewWW | Thanks |
| 20:08.22 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 20:08.22 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
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| 20:12.04 | MatthewWW | I've made changed so it uses HIDE instead of unregister, but there's still things not working for some reason I simply can't figure out |
| 20:12.28 | MatthewWW | http://pastey.net/135993 |
| 20:25.03 | MatthewWW | Now when I do this thte tutorials never show.. what am I doing wrong lol http://pastey.net/135995 |
| 20:25.07 | MatthewWW | I keep screwing this stuff up |
| 20:27.10 | Iriel | What is the else on line 14 supposed tob e else'ing? |
| 20:27.54 | MatthewWW | if M is anything but 48 or 7 |
| 20:29.10 | Kalroth | self:Hide() will be called if m is 48 |
| 20:29.30 | Iriel | if a then print("a") elseif b then print("b") else print("c") end |
| 20:29.52 | Iriel | that's the syntax you want |
| 20:30.00 | MatthewWW | so if I changed that m==7 to elseif? |
| 20:30.04 | Iriel | your else is currently else'ing line 2 |
| 20:30.17 | Kalroth | yeah, that too |
| 20:30.45 | MatthewWW | http://pastey.net/135995 better? |
| 20:31.10 | Iriel | yes, please indent line 6 properly to save yourself some trouble later |
| 20:31.20 | Kalroth | and 13 too :P |
| 20:31.25 | Iriel | yes 13 too |
| 20:32.13 | MatthewWW | is it supposed to be elseif or else if |
| 20:32.37 | Kalroth | elseif, but its the same no? |
| 20:32.48 | MatthewWW | well, either way, it's still not working for some reason |
| 20:33.07 | Kalroth | print the m variable and see what it actually is |
| 20:33.43 | MatthewWW | doing |
| 20:34.10 | MatthewWW | 7 came up |
| 20:34.23 | MatthewWW | I have an idea |
| 20:34.35 | MatthewWW | Is the opposite of self:Hide() self:Show()? |
| 20:35.09 | MatthewWW | Because, I don't have a show in there anywhere. So when anything but 7 or 48 are getting called, it's being hidden and staying hidden |
| 20:35.19 | Kalroth | ah :) |
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| 20:37.38 | MatthewWW | Still doesn't work, and now it brings an error in tutorialframe.lua |
| 20:37.40 | MatthewWW | RRGHGHG |
| 20:43.43 | MatthewWW | Ok, apparently tutorialFrame doesn't like having OnShow called on it |
| 20:43.49 | MatthewWW | is there any other way to take it out of hide? |
| 20:47.50 | zenzelezz | I'd imagine most frames assume OnShow is only called by the game when the frame is shown, and that you use the Show function to initiate this action |
| 20:48.14 | MatthewWW | Yes, I think i'm going to go back to register/unregister, this show stuff bugs out tutorialframe.lua too badly |
| 20:50.16 | mikma | cog|away: http://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/christianity.jpg |
| 20:50.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Borgleader (~borgleade@modemcable253.146-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 20:52.08 | zenzelezz | mikma: I saw that quote on Slashdot not long ago :-o |
| 20:52.18 | zenzelezz | but for all I know it may have been around for a long time |
| 20:52.57 | MatthewWW | Hmm, I need this working at least a little for tomorrow. An SC2 Beta Key to whoever manages to fix my mess. http://pastey.net/135999 |
| 20:58.22 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-68-38-51-80.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 20:58.55 | MatthewWW | The ones that are particularly not working are t[7], t[48], t[6], t[28], t[49]. The rest all seem to be ok |
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| 22:07.48 | Iriel | MatthewWW: you REALLY should declare t o be local |
| 22:07.59 | Iriel | because that's a really bad choice of global variable name |
| 22:09.07 | Iriel | I would imagine 7 doesn't work because you have it all commented out |
| 22:10.30 | olafski | won't that list of if statements go quicker if you make it if/else? ;) |
| 22:12.09 | Fisker | i'm local |
| 22:12.17 | Thunder_Child | i wish |
| 22:12.33 | Fisker | yay |
| 22:12.41 | Fisker | my authenticator code started with 1337 |
| 22:13.14 | Shirik | because it knows that you are not, it is trying to be nice to you |
| 22:13.15 | Iriel | olafski: it would assuming that most of the time one of themfires, and it's one near the start |
| 22:13.41 | olafski | iriel: yeah.. would need to sort them according to likelihood |
| 22:13.51 | olafski | e.g. combat log events and such above quest updates ;) |
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| 23:06.24 | Shirik | I found kobe's IP address |
| 23:06.26 | Shirik | http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=359728720&oldid=359707318 |
| 23:08.49 | Cide | nice |
| 23:08.57 | Cide | go DoS |
| 23:13.52 | jadakren | http://www.icanhasmotivation.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/why_so_serious01.jpg |
| 23:14.23 | kd3 | i uh... wow |
| 23:23.20 | jadakren | http://tinyurl.com/2csa9s7 |
| 23:23.30 | Cide | lua> string.format("%02x", 97) |
| 23:23.30 | lua_bot | Cide: 61 |
| 23:29.04 | eidolarr | is anyone good at unix programming? i'm using fseek and fwrite to try to write to a file, and 2048 bytes of 0's are mysteriously disappearing |
| 23:29.40 | Iriel | Did you seek past the end of your file? |
| 23:29.49 | Iriel | Using SEEK_CUR instead of SEEK_SET is an easy mistake to make |
| 23:30.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Dagmar (1000@unaffiliated/dagmar) |
| 23:30.18 | eidolarr | i'm using SEEK_SET and it should be the first character after the end of the file |
| 23:30.19 | Iriel | (or whatever the f* version is, that might be plain 'seek') |
| 23:30.28 | eidolarr | what's weird is that some of the bytes i want are getting written, just not all of them |
| 23:30.57 | Iriel | Did you check the return value of fwrite |
| 23:31.09 | eidolarr | yeah, it's what i expect it to be, not shorter or anything |
| 23:31.22 | Iriel | Is your file buffered? |
| 23:31.24 | Iriel | Did you flush? |
| 23:31.34 | Iriel | fflush(FILE *stream) |
| 23:31.35 | eidolarr | i closed at the end |
| 23:31.39 | eidolarr | i'll try flushing |
| 23:31.47 | Dagmar | Don't forget to put the lid down, either. |
| 23:32.00 | Iriel | fclose is supposed to flush also, did you fclose or close? |
| 23:33.25 | eidolarr | aha that was it |
| 23:33.25 | eidolarr | w |
| 23:33.32 | eidolarr | which means my fclose isn't happening |
| 23:33.35 | eidolarr | thanks a lot, i was super bafflde |
| 23:33.40 | Dagmar | buffered pipes are cool like that |
