| 00:00.06 | jnwhiteh | wall == fast_charging and longer_life |
| 00:00.15 | jnwhiteh | usb == slow_charging and short_life |
| 00:00.17 | Shirik | while that's unusual, it may simply be the quality of the charger |
| 00:00.53 | Shirik | what kind of phone comes with a USB charger anyway? |
| 00:00.58 | Shirik | oh I guess mine does |
| 00:01.04 | cbreak | I bet an iPhone would |
| 00:01.05 | jnwhiteh | anything with a micro/mini USB port =) |
| 00:01.09 | cbreak | unless they cost extra |
| 00:01.13 | cbreak | which they probably do |
| 00:03.11 | *** join/#wowuidev theorbtwo (~theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 00:03.19 | jnwhiteh | well thanks, that makes sense =) |
| 00:07.47 | *** join/#wowuidev zenzelezz (~zenzelezz@cm-84.212.249.234.getinternet.no) |
| 00:07.48 | Shirik | jnwhiteh: I have to deal with this on 300V batteries at school :( |
| 00:07.55 | jnwhiteh | =( |
| 00:08.01 | Shirik | it is a recurring problem |
| 00:08.10 | Shirik | the cells keep getting unbalanced |
| 00:08.23 | Shirik | and replacing the battery in a car is not exactly economical |
| 00:08.33 | jnwhiteh | yea |
| 00:08.37 | jnwhiteh | I can imagine |
| 00:10.09 | Shirik | hm |
| 00:10.11 | Shirik | I need food |
| 00:10.14 | Arathros | hmm |
| 00:10.16 | Shirik | donuts maybe |
| 00:12.07 | Arathros | raid icons.. tex and funcs to call em? |
| 00:12.36 | Shirik | !! |
| 00:12.43 | Shirik | the article I created made it into the signpost |
| 00:18.08 | Cidwel | recently i've noticed that the same people that made kazaa is the same people that made skype, my life now have sense |
| 00:26.28 | cbreak | no wonder skype is such an incompatible security holed software |
| 00:34.28 | Arathros | lol that makes soo much sense lol |
| 00:34.35 | Arathros | BW hogging crap |
| 00:34.43 | amro | it's incompatible and security holed? |
| 00:34.53 | amro | (incompatible with what?) |
| 00:35.07 | Dagmar | Uhh... No. There is no corollary between usb charging and battery life |
| 00:35.08 | Arathros | computers ;P |
| 00:35.09 | cbreak | with any other IP phone software? |
| 00:35.23 | Dagmar | ...and just about every bloody phone out there charges off USB now |
| 00:35.47 | Arathros | hmm my SE w910i has ability to disable charge on usb |
| 00:35.53 | amro | cbreak: I don't expect it to be |
| 00:36.00 | amro | what about the security holes? |
| 00:36.11 | Dagmar | Arathros: Yeah because some people just want to sync their phones, not have them leech their laptop batteries |
| 00:36.16 | Arathros | ye |
| 00:36.37 | cbreak | I read about a few but don't remember specifics |
| 00:36.40 | cbreak | they weren't recent |
| 00:36.49 | Dagmar | IIRC the iphone won't by default unless you plug it into an apple laptop that is smart enough to tell it "It's okay, I'm charging from the wall" |
| 00:37.09 | cbreak | major complaints about skype I read were that it's proprietary and potentially insecure |
| 00:37.30 | theorbtwo | Blackberries do that as well. |
| 00:37.32 | cbreak | (since the protocol is closed, it was speculated that the company can log your calls or at least your call logs) |
| 00:37.45 | Arathros | the raid target icons.. where is the tex? |
| 00:37.58 | Dagmar | cbreak: I would be worried more about magic encryption keys |
| 00:38.15 | cbreak | who needs magic if he has RSA |
| 00:38.23 | cbreak | at least for 2010 that should be sufficient |
| 00:38.32 | cbreak | probably enough until 2012 or so |
| 00:38.46 | Arathros | UI-RaidTargetingIcon_1 ->8 lol |
| 00:39.10 | Dagmar | cbreak: THe thing is, you're taking it on faith that it's using RSA all the time, due to that no one outside the company can verify that there's no backdoor |
| 00:39.22 | theorbtwo | Conspiricy theories are easy to generate here. |
| 00:39.39 | cbreak | Dagmar: I have less faith than most people I know... |
| 00:39.55 | cbreak | I certainly don't trust them |
| 00:39.59 | amro | cbreak: I wouldn't call those security holes |
| 00:40.07 | Dagmar | Well, considering that we've got a law that mandates eavesdropping, several historical examples of eavesdropping builtins, and one of my personal friends just recently dropped a bad press bomb on Cisco for it... |
| 00:40.08 | cbreak | I do. Because I am paranoid :) |
| 00:40.14 | Dagmar | It's not that crazy |
| 00:40.16 | amro | they're security issues |
| 00:40.17 | theorbtwo | "We could put you in prision for a very long time over that kazaa thing... but instead, you'll put a nice backdoor in skype, so we can listen to all the conversations... sound good?" |
| 00:40.29 | amro | a hole would be something like anyone being able to dick around in their system |
| 00:40.43 | amro | or someone being able to execute code on your computer if you have skype running |
| 00:40.59 | cbreak | skype corp can execute code on your machine if you do. |
| 00:41.12 | amro | indeed they can |
| 00:41.21 | amro | kotick can execute code on your computer if you run wow |
| 00:41.23 | amro | be afraid |
| 00:41.24 | amro | be very afraid |
| 00:41.25 | Dagmar | It's not like yer not just one signed update from Microsoft from total remote access anyway |
| 00:41.44 | cbreak | I don't use MS software |
| 00:41.47 | cbreak | outside a VM |
| 00:41.48 | amro | I'm not actually, I don't run windows =) |
| 00:42.16 | amro | anyway cbreak, by that argument all software has holes |
| 00:42.26 | Dagmar | All software does until proven otherwise |
| 00:42.48 | cbreak | there are simple programs which I trust they work as advertized |
| 00:42.52 | amro | okay, so we're having a pointless conversation by singling out skype |
| 00:42.52 | cbreak | (hello world and the like) |
| 00:43.01 | Dagmar | amro: Pretty much. |
| 00:43.06 | cbreak | and there is software I can accept as being reasonably secure (no outside communication) |
| 00:43.26 | cbreak | but closed source software that communicates with random peers is a red flag |
| 00:43.33 | Dagmar | Yep |
| 00:43.48 | amro | cbreak: then you shouldn't trust any communication software |
| 00:43.51 | cbreak | and as far as I read, skype makes limited use of peer 2 peer tech |
| 00:43.58 | cbreak | amro: exactly! |
| 00:44.05 | cbreak | I trust them as far as I have to, and not further |
| 00:44.27 | cbreak | I prefer technology that uses standards that are public |
| 00:44.33 | cbreak | and software that has it's sourcecode available |
| 00:44.54 | cbreak | closed protocols are bad for trust. even more than closed source. |
| 00:45.22 | *** join/#wowuidev bleeter_ (~bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 00:45.54 | theorbtwo | Code that you expect to turn your computer into a live microphone and speak things you'd prefer not be generally public to you should be extra-careful about. |
| 00:47.03 | amro | I only use it to talk to get information from Chinese political dissidents |
| 00:47.10 | amro | incidentally, I haven't heard from them in a while. |
| 00:49.11 | DWSR | Shadowed: http://elitistarmory.com/US/Emerald%20Dream/Arelin <-- lolwut? |
| 00:52.05 | Shadowed | You do realize I'm not going to dig through the profile to figure out what's wrong, right |
| 00:53.03 | Arathros | hmm button with texture.. do i have to createframe button then create texture on that? |
| 00:54.19 | cbreak | you can use templates |
| 00:56.34 | DWSR | Shadowed: Melee DPS, Physical DPS? |
| 00:56.41 | Shadowed | And? |
| 00:56.44 | DWSR | lolwut? |
| 00:56.49 | Shadowed | Melee DPS and Physical DPS is a valid distinction |
| 00:56.55 | Shadowed | Hunters are a physical class |
| 00:57.02 | cbreak | hunters hate being in melee |
| 00:57.02 | Shadowed | they are not a melee class |
| 00:57.11 | cbreak | at least those in my guild do |
| 00:57.25 | DWSR | Should change them all to physical, then. =\ |
| 00:57.25 | cbreak | every time I tell them "hug the boss ffs" they ask me if I wanted to replace them :( |
| 00:57.32 | Shadowed | ... no |
| 00:57.41 | cbreak | mages aren't physical |
| 00:57.46 | Shadowed | Hunters don't care about STR or Expertise |
| 00:57.49 | Shadowed | It's a valid distinction |
| 00:58.08 | Shadowed | The namings might be a bit odd, but they aren't arbitrary, they do serve a purpose |
| 01:02.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 01:03.55 | DWSR | !api CombatLog |
| 01:03.56 | lua_bot | Found 10 possible results for 'CombatLog': CombatLogGetNumEntries, CombatLogAddFilter, CombatLogGetRetentionTime, CombatLogSetCurrentEntry, CombatLogClearEntries, CombatLogResetFilter, CombatLogGetCurrentEntry, CombatLogAdvanceEntry, CombatLogSetRetentionTime, CombatLog_Object_IsA |
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| 01:05.42 | Shirik | hey DWSR |
| 01:05.45 | Shirik | listen to your heart |
| 01:06.00 | DWSR | When it's calling to me? |
| 01:06.18 | Shirik | precisely |
| 01:06.27 | Shirik | especially before you tell me goodbye |
| 01:06.47 | DWSR | ~Shirik++ |
| 01:17.43 | Arathros | hunter are there to act as a lootwhore. |
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| 01:48.12 | WobWork | ugh, the feeling of sending off 2 and a half thousand emails with a single buttonpress |
| 01:48.24 | Tuller | one cent each! |
| 01:48.33 | WobWork | and -hoping- you didn't include an unsubscribed email |
| 01:49.05 | WobWork | cause doing so on a mailing list about "Welcome to Week X of your pregnancy" doesn't go over too well if someone unsubscibes and still gets it |
| 01:50.16 | Tuller | tomorrow i have to figure out how to negotiate a salary, hurray |
| 01:50.33 | WobWork | "Give me a raise, or I go work somewhere else" |
| 01:51.10 | amro | personally I prefer "Give me a raise, I know where you live." |
| 01:51.56 | WobWork | amro: that only works once |
| 01:51.56 | Tuller | its a job offer for a new job, more or less |
| 01:51.57 | WobWork | Until they figure out that the amount of difference between your current salary, and the proposed one is enough to put out a hit on you |
| 01:52.03 | amro | there are other ways to be... persuasive, but let's not get into that |
| 01:52.34 | amro | WobWork: worth it for the irony when they find out I'm the hitman they hired |
| 01:52.45 | WobWork | So you'll have to off yourself! |
| 01:52.54 | WobWork | make sure you sneak up on yourself |
| 01:52.55 | Tuller | right now its a "hey, I'd be moving to nova, which is one of the most expensive places in the US, give me more money!" |
| 01:52.59 | WobWork | don't want you knowing what hit you |
| 01:53.12 | WobWork | Tuller: sounds entirely reasonable |
| 01:56.58 | cbreak | for my job I said "I want to work for you, and I honestly don't care how much you pay me" |
| 01:57.08 | WobWork | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilge |
| 01:59.00 | Shirik | I found my new favorite template on Wikipedia |
| 01:59.02 | Shirik | {{wtf}} |
| 01:59.10 | Shirik | causes [more information requested] to appear |
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| 02:19.52 | NightHawkTheSane | Avast! |
| 02:20.02 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 02:21.24 | frontendloader | can set be multiple statements in aceconfig? |
| 02:21.42 | frontendloader | set = set; unGreySubOption(); |
| 02:22.27 | cbreak | is it lua? |
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| 02:49.24 | Cidwel | err, the local function scope is only for aiming all the resources inside the function only for the function, aimdoinitrite? |
| 02:50.03 | Arrowmaster | huh? |
| 02:51.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Yssaril|Away (~Yssaril@99-57-32-25.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:52.33 | Cidwel | leave it Arrowmaster , sort of lua scope failing in my script, I'm reading the info about lua scope right now |
| 02:53.34 | Arathros | ok i was in ulduar for the weekly and my mod started failing fuckloads ;P when i was in mechanical units. like siege engines. i should have saved the dam error shouldnt i ? ;P |
| 02:54.00 | amro | no need Arathros, lua_bot can divine it |
| 02:54.13 | Cidwel | yup, you should, /swat show |
| 02:54.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Shadowed (~Shadowed@li53-10.members.linode.com) |
| 02:54.17 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shadowed] by ChanServ |
| 02:54.35 | Arathros | i need to do WG lol |
| 02:54.49 | Arathros | 1 hour 8 mins.. dammit |
| 02:54.58 | Arathros | anywhere else you ride around in siege |
| 02:55.18 | Cidwel | strand |
| 02:55.30 | Arathros | hmm |
| 02:55.40 | Arathros | enter pvp to leave.. whyn ot ;P |
| 02:55.51 | Arathros | 15 min wait lol |
| 02:56.00 | Cidwel | there are some quest that you need to drive a siege.... i think |
| 02:56.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Yssarilz (~Yssaril@99-57-32-25.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:57.02 | Arathros | how many prequests ;P |
| 02:57.41 | cbreak | there are vehicle quests |
| 02:57.52 | cbreak | like the one where you ride a giant in the zombie zone |
| 02:58.01 | Cidwel | i remember 3 or 4 that I've played, some of them are located in borean tundra |
| 02:58.06 | Arathros | ok while i wait.. made a button with the raid icon 1 text.. i have to make it clickable and then add the raidicon to target |
| 02:58.29 | Arathros | borean. thats the first few quests you do so they arent repeatable are they? |
| 02:58.46 | Cidwel | I'm not sure |
| 02:59.19 | Arathros | too far away on my slow mount. ;P |
| 02:59.31 | Cidwel | there is a place where a lot of quest needs siege action to be completed |
| 02:59.33 | Cidwel | ..... wait |
| 02:59.55 | Cidwel | could be Storm peaks or icecrown? |
| 03:00.08 | Arathros | prob icecrown since i got all achievs exept ice ;P |
| 03:00.31 | cbreak | there's a hodir daily |
| 03:00.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Yssaril|Away (~Yssaril@99-57-32-25.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:00.40 | cbreak | where you are fighting a dragon with just a spear |
| 03:00.46 | cbreak | I think the dragon counts as vehicle |
| 03:01.00 | Arathros | hmm that daily |
| 03:01.05 | Arathros | well heading to borea ;P |
| 03:01.10 | Cidwel | i'm pretty sure that there are in icecrown, near argent vanguard |
| 03:01.29 | cbreak | oh, there are two bomber quests |
| 03:01.45 | cbreak | in ice crown, on the bridge in the hidden area |
| 03:01.52 | Cidwel | yup |
| 03:02.29 | Arathros | havent opened that part |
| 03:02.47 | Arathros | this is why private servers are decent. for testing |
| 03:03.00 | cbreak | no need for private servers |
| 03:03.05 | cbreak | code inspection ftw! :) |
| 03:03.12 | Cidwel | is part of the quest transition between stormpeaks and icecrown |
| 03:03.15 | Shirik | omg |
| 03:03.15 | Shirik | this is win |
| 03:03.28 | Shirik | ~wiki Buttered cat paradox |
| 03:03.35 | Arathros | lol |
| 03:03.58 | Shirik | the picture is by far the best part |
| 03:04.07 | Cidwel | there was a gif explaining the antigravity |
| 03:04.56 | Cidwel | http://lolcat.net/d/2185-2/anti-gravity_cat.gif so old |
| 03:04.59 | Arathros | lol |
| 03:05.22 | Arathros | oh god this is too early lolo |
| 03:05.29 | Shadowed | I was hoping the article would continue with "In 1993, someone found dropping a buttered cat did not in fact work" |
| 03:05.31 | Shadowed | sadly it did not |
| 03:05.53 | Arathros | btw the error i got was in a party so dont know if it was party related or player related... grr. |
| 03:06.05 | Arathros | something about returned -? or something |
| 03:06.34 | Cidwel | pew pew |
| 03:11.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Yssaril|Away (~Yssaril@99-57-32-25.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:12.49 | Cidwel | ... if you type in wow /script print(i) and this returns something.... there's a scope problem in anyone of my addons, is this true? |
| 03:13.22 | Shirik | possibly |
| 03:13.30 | alestane | If you define i in a function and it's supposed to be local, and nothing else besides your addon defines it, then maybe. |
| 03:15.09 | Arathros | hot wings mmm |
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| 03:19.33 | *** join/#wowuidev ccox (~ccox@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/CCox) |
| 03:20.01 | ccox | thinks you should beware the march of ids! |
| 03:21.13 | Cidwel | I'm leaving, good night |
| 03:43.42 | *** join/#wowuidev kdtresh (~kdtresh@adsl-75-14-214-43.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net) |
| 04:00.23 | Arathros | wg time.... lets get errors running ;P |
| 04:00.32 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@c-76-107-191-65.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 04:07.30 | Shirik | I love Seven |
| 04:07.46 | Shirik | "You're a woman" "What is your prescribed treatment?" |
| 04:08.07 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (~theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 04:09.23 | kdtresh | as in seven of nine? |
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| 04:14.39 | awweaver | Hello |
| 04:24.27 | Shirik | k |
| 04:24.33 | Shirik | I need someone really good at regex |
| 04:24.36 | Shirik | kdtresh: yes |
| 04:24.54 | Shirik | someone that understands the benefits of short circuit logic, etc. |
| 04:25.58 | Thunder_Child | my logic is greater thna your logic |
| 04:26.02 | Thunder_Child | than* |
| 04:30.26 | Arrowmaster | i found some major encoding fail on a webpage, so fail that i really really hope it was done by some automated tool and not a person |
| 04:32.03 | Arrowmaster | names in a list of acknowledgements being displayed incorrectly in both the default ISO-8859-1 and when switched to UTF-8, so i checked the source and found this |
| 04:32.10 | Thunder_Child | people are tools |
| 04:32.15 | Arrowmaster | Æ |
| 04:32.54 | Arrowmaster | lua> \195\134 |
| 04:32.57 | lua_bot | Arrowmaster: luabot:1: unexpected symbol near '\' |
| 04:33.02 | Arrowmaster | lua> "\195\134" |
| 04:33.02 | lua_bot | Arrowmaster: Ã |
| 04:42.29 | Kraps | 80! |
| 04:45.09 | Thunder_Child | 81! |
| 04:45.25 | Kraps | 42! |
| 04:45.35 | Thunder_Child | 69! |
| 04:46.18 | Arathros | lol |
| 04:46.35 | Arathros | PProvost in danish PPasscheese |
| 04:49.18 | Arathros | lol whats ur longest schoolday? |
| 04:49.22 | Arathros | mine is today |
| 04:49.29 | Arathros | 06:00 -> 23:30 |
| 04:51.52 | Arathros | well time to leave for the day lol cya tomorrow |
| 04:51.54 | amro | that sounds illegal |
| 04:52.14 | amro | also very unhealthy |
| 04:52.18 | Arathros | lol expedition to copenhagen.. leaves at 06:15 by bus returns at crap lol |
| 04:52.21 | Arathros | no shit ;P |
| 04:52.31 | Arathros | but social science, religion and history all day lol |
| 04:52.39 | Arathros | they are paying even for food. so i dont care ;) |
| 04:52.50 | amro | field trip then? |
| 04:53.32 | Arathros | working museum.. copenhagen grand church and a moske. and some other palces.. so yeah.. field trip ;P |
| 04:53.53 | Arathros | the illegal part. we arrive at midnight at our beds.. |
| 04:54.00 | Arathros | at 8 school starts again |
| 04:54.06 | Arathros | less than 6 hours sleep lol |
| 04:54.52 | amro | well, have fun with that |
| 05:00.38 | *** join/#wowuidev bleeter (~bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 05:02.04 | WobWork | http://www.news.com.au/national/man-caught-with-meat-two-veg-in-pants/story-e6frfkvr-1225841341690 |
| 05:20.21 | *** join/#wowuidev recluse (~john.d.ma@adsl-71-145-167-112.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 05:23.25 | Shirik | someone shoot me now |
| 05:23.26 | Shirik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OMMFPOSFGOMG! |
| 05:23.35 | Shirik | ~wiki OMMFPOSFGOMG! |
| 05:26.24 | amro | ~shoot Shirik |
| 05:26.25 | purl | ACTION shoots Shirik in the ear with a quantum singularity weapon! |
| 05:29.15 | *** join/#wowuidev eidolarr (~zls@c-71-61-178-129.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 05:36.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Zilcha (zilcha@193.219.39.203) |
| 05:43.35 | Kraps | so my first heroic as resto gets a solid C- |
| 05:44.00 | Kraps | and im sweating from exertion |
| 05:46.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen1 (~Sixen@173-25-23-10.client.mchsi.com) |
| 05:51.56 | *** join/#wowuidev chewish (~chewish@host86-176-146-17.range86-176.btcentralplus.com) |
| 05:51.56 | *** join/#wowuidev eidolarr (~zls@c-71-61-178-129.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 05:56.12 | WobWork | Kraps: Get freebg_grid |
| 05:56.24 | WobWork | it's awesome for hot healers |
| 05:56.36 | WobWork | once I had that, I relaxed a whole lot more in pugs |
| 05:56.49 | WobWork | cause I can see how much healing is remaining in my HoTs and if it'll cover the situation |
| 05:57.02 | WobWork | and then only worry about spamcasting nourish |
| 05:57.27 | WobWork | (unless you mean resto shaman, in which case, earthshield always and spamcast LHW) |
| 06:05.52 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1, you've used nagios, yes? |
| 06:22.55 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (~smcn@c-174-52-173-217.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 06:38.21 | *** join/#wowuidev ajmitch (~ajmitch@li95-79.members.linode.com) |
| 06:38.22 | *** join/#wowuidev ajmitch (~ajmitch@ubuntu/member/ajmitch) |
| 06:38.31 | *** join/#wowuidev NightHawkTheSane (~jonathan@li83-182.members.linode.com) |
| 06:42.16 | DWSR | So. |
| 06:42.26 | WobWork | So. |
| 06:42.33 | DWSR | Sidewalk cleaner rolled past my room about 10 minutes ago. |
| 06:42.36 | DWSR | And now I'm awake again |
| 06:43.46 | haste | soon 8am, so why not get up! :------------D |
| 06:44.09 | DWSR | haste: it's 2:45 am here\ |
| 06:44.21 | DWSR | also, maint this week for us? |
| 06:44.39 | haste | doesn't know. |
| 06:45.34 | DWSR | ~wowalert |
| 06:45.35 | purl | http://launcher.worldofwarcraft.com/alert (US); http://status.wow-europe.com/en/alert (EU) [NB: URL goes to 404 unless there's an active alert] |
| 06:45.50 | DWSR | fail. |
| 06:47.04 | DWSR | And this fucking thing is coming BACK UP THE STREET? |
| 06:47.33 | haste | bOOOp BoooP bOOOp |
| 06:48.26 | DWSR | Shadowed: You there? |
| 06:48.30 | Shadowed | ? |
| 06:49.39 | DWSR | Anything special that I have to do to to do request balancing for EA? |
| 06:49.47 | Shadowed | "balancing"? |
| 06:49.48 | DWSR | besides what's listed, obviously. |
| 06:49.55 | DWSR | Shadowed: I don't know what else to call it *shrug* |
| 06:50.06 | Shadowed | oh |
| 06:50.07 | Shadowed | mirroring? |
| 06:50.09 | DWSR | yes. |
| 06:50.10 | DWSR | Sure |
| 06:50.27 | Shadowed | I really shouldn't call it mirroring as that's wrong |
| 06:50.42 | Shadowed | but nonetheless that's a later fix |
| 06:50.53 | Shadowed | No you don't, as long as your server supports curl + php it can mirror |
| 06:51.01 | haste | load balancing :P |
| 06:51.10 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 06:51.16 | DWSR | That's sort of what I look at it as. |
| 06:51.19 | Shadowed | load balancing is better yea |
| 06:51.29 | DWSR | mkay. |
| 06:51.31 | Shadowed | Although it's technically not balancing load, since the load is the same :> |
| 06:51.45 | Shadowed | Proxying is really what I should call it |
| 06:51.47 | haste | bandwidth balancing! |
| 06:51.58 | Shadowed | It's not bandwidth balancing either :P |
| 06:52.08 | haste | then the hell are you trying to solve :p ? |
| 06:52.15 | Shadowed | It gets around the throttles per ip |
| 06:52.36 | haste | wowarmory thingy? |
| 06:52.39 | Shadowed | yea |
| 06:52.48 | Shadowed | It mostly makes it so I can scale beyond the private servers I have |
| 06:53.19 | Shadowed | Which right now isn't too much of an issue, but it will soon once I push EA more |
| 06:57.57 | *** join/#wowuidev zenzio (~zenzio__@85.19.77.194) |
| 06:58.01 | DWSR | Shadowed: Go nuts. |
| 06:58.09 | DWSR | That server has a TB of bandwidth that I never use. |
| 06:58.48 | Shadowed | Thanks! Added you |
| 06:59.55 | Shadowed | Yea I'll put you online in a few days, rewriting some stuff |
| 07:00.04 | Shadowed | so don't have some new code in yet to handle more nodes |
| 07:00.45 | DWSR | No worries |
| 07:01.13 | DWSR | Honestly, I'm glad someone came up with an armory site that's sane. |
| 07:01.59 | Adys | SHADOWED HAS PRIVATE SERVERS |
| 07:02.02 | Adys | BAN BAN BAN |
| 07:02.19 | Shadowed | I'm not even sure how you could remotely twist it into that Adys |
| 07:02.19 | WobWork | is that pronounced with a japanese accent? |
| 07:02.25 | Adys | w/e |
| 07:02.27 | Adys | laters |
| 07:03.16 | Fisker | hold the fuck up WobWork |
| 07:03.20 | haste | Shadowed: it was easy for him |
| 07:03.24 | haste | 0752.48| @Shadowed | It mostly makes it so I can scale beyond the private servers I have |
| 07:03.29 | haste | read that one without context :P |
| 07:03.38 | haste | (in a wow relatet channel!) |
| 07:03.46 | Shadowed | Oh he was slow on that |
| 07:03.58 | Shadowed | 7 minutes, lifetimes |
| 07:04.23 | Fisker | hey haste |
| 07:04.42 | haste | hey Fisker |
| 07:05.00 | haste | too late! afk -> |
| 07:05.12 | Fisker | i was only hey'ing you so |
| 07:05.43 | Shadowed | It's not done yet DWSR, still a lot more to do |
| 07:06.47 | Fisker | ilike fix that bug in suf |
| 07:07.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (~Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 07:07.55 | Adys | every time i boot windows |
| 07:08.05 | Adys | i remember how fucking crippled and bugged to hell it is |
| 07:08.31 | Adys | bsod on startup, superb |
| 07:08.58 | Shadowed | Adys: It hates you |
| 07:15.24 | zenzio | Adys: which version of Windows? I haven't had a problem like that in a long time that wasn't caused by bad drivers/hardware |
| 07:15.33 | Adys | xp |
| 07:15.39 | Adys | it doesnt seem to like my new mb |
| 07:17.43 | *** join/#wowuidev msoul (msoul@meridian.sosdg.org) |
| 07:17.56 | msoul | Top of the morning |
| 07:18.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 07:20.26 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@d86-32-145-154.cust.tele2.at) |
| 07:22.52 | DWSR | What defense enchants are there? |
| 07:23.18 | zenzio | defensive, or the defense skill? |
| 07:23.18 | msoul | depends what you after, vest/helmet wep enchant etc |
| 07:23.32 | msoul | there is 22 defense on shield |
| 07:23.48 | DWSR | msoul: DK DW tank. :P |
| 07:23.49 | DWSR | No shield. |
| 07:24.05 | msoul | okie then |
| 07:24.16 | msoul | nerubian on main hand and razorrice on offhand |
| 07:24.26 | DWSR | nerubian on MH and OH |
| 07:24.35 | msoul | you can do that as well yes |
| 07:24.50 | DWSR | That's what you're supposed to do. |
| 07:24.56 | DWSR | Nerubian gives % stam. |
| 07:25.00 | msoul | Not really |
| 07:25.08 | zenzio | I'm a bit rusty, but there's defense on cloak IIRC? And some super-awesome old leatherworking things |
| 07:25.38 | DWSR | Yes really. |
| 07:25.59 | ZorbaTHut | why would you use razorice? |
| 07:26.02 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 07:26.04 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: You're back! |
| 07:26.06 | DWSR | :) |
| 07:26.10 | DWSR | I can has question? |
| 07:26.18 | ZorbaTHut | shoot |
| 07:26.28 | DWSR | sec |
| 07:26.52 | DWSR | It's ~5 defense per point of defense rating, right? |
| 07:26.58 | msoul | ZorbaTHut: Affixes your rune weapon with a rune that causes 2% extra weapon damage as Frost damage and has a chance to increase vulnerability to your Frost attacks... |
| 07:27.05 | ZorbaTHut | if anything, it's the other way around |
| 07:27.15 | ZorbaTHut | msoul, sure. what does that have to do with tanking? |
| 07:27.17 | msoul | It's an option you do not "have" to have it on your OH |
| 07:27.29 | DWSR | http://www.wowhead.com/?compare=50268;50303;47810;49495 <-- pick two, Zorba |
| 07:27.37 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Yes. |
| 07:28.08 | ZorbaTHut | the tanking 1h enchant gives you a huge chunk of defense and a significant chunk of stamina. if you're low on threat, you jam in a few expertise gems, and then you're not low on threat anymore |
| 07:28.45 | DWSR | I'm currently at 509 defense, but I have a defense trinket I can drop in (lose my Essence of Gossamer though :( ) |
| 07:28.49 | ZorbaTHut | dwsr, black icicle and quel'serrar, pretty much entirely 'cause they're slow. :P |
| 07:28.54 | msoul | err my apologies i meant swordbreaking |
| 07:28.56 | msoul | heh |
| 07:29.04 | msoul | Starting with 3.3, Rune of the Nerubian Carapace will probably be the best rune enchant. Depending on the encounter, it might be useful to have another weapon with Rune of Swordbreaking on it. |
| 07:29.31 | msoul | at class |
| 07:29.40 | DWSR | actually, I'm at 535 defense before trinket. |
| 07:29.47 | DWSR | Whoops, I didn't have weapons actually equipped |
| 07:29.48 | DWSR | Anyway. |
| 07:30.00 | DWSR | Throw in a def/stam instead of hit/stam and we're g2g, I think, right? |
| 07:30.09 | msoul | ZorbaTHut: i re-rolled now a warrior... tanking with it and dpsing |
| 07:30.23 | msoul | i go with armor/stam |
| 07:30.29 | msoul | def will come by default |
| 07:30.34 | DWSR | msoul: lol |
| 07:30.38 | DWSR | I'm low right now. |
| 07:30.41 | ZorbaTHut | swordbreaking's a little saner. still, you're sacrificing 1% of your HP in return for 0.5% avoidance |
| 07:30.45 | ZorbaTHut | not really convinced that's an improvement |
| 07:31.02 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: It depends on the encounter, doesn't it? |
| 07:31.15 | msoul | ZorbaTHut: if i have good gear don't think that 1% of stam will mean anything :) |
| 07:31.19 | ZorbaTHut | dwsr, not particularly, no |
| 07:31.25 | ZorbaTHut | msou, 0.5% avoidance doesn't really mean anything either |
| 07:31.40 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: I would look at it more for the disarm immunity. |
| 07:31.47 | msoul | it's an option |
| 07:31.51 | ZorbaTHut | are there any raid bosses that disarm? |
| 07:31.59 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Tash |
| 07:32.01 | DWSR | no, Trash* |
| 07:32.12 | DWSR | I'm actually considering having a spare weapon with that equipped for trash that disarms. |
| 07:32.31 | ZorbaTHut | msou, I hate to beat on you here, but "it's an option", while technically true, doesn't imply that it's ever a *good* option. I mean, explain to me what situation makes sense for gaining 0.5% avoidance in return for 1% hp |
| 07:32.33 | Fisker | i was the world champion DWSR :( |
| 07:33.08 | msoul | ZorbaTHut: I'm not here to argue over an enchant. i can say "to each their own" |
| 07:33.10 | ZorbaTHut | dwsr, is trash ever really an issue at this point? |
| 07:33.23 | ZorbaTHut | msou, *shrug* I say "sometimes one thing really is better than another thing". |
| 07:34.03 | ZorbaTHut | nobody argues about whether ten stamina is better than one hit rating for tanks. if your goal is to succeed, some options really are just better than other options. |
| 07:34.36 | msoul | Well, those are the two enchants that you can have on your OH. choose whatever you please |
| 07:35.08 | krka | clearly 1% is always more than 0.5% |
| 07:35.50 | msoul | it's better what i am saying you have either nerubian or swordbreaking |
| 07:35.55 | ZorbaTHut | krka, I can come up with extremely contrived cases where you'd rather have the 0.5%, but I can't come up with any realistic ones. |
| 07:36.12 | krka | how do those two values translate to survivability? |
| 07:36.38 | krka | how much raw damage do you typically manage to avoid with avoidance? |
| 07:36.49 | krka | that should be compared with the stamina increase |
| 07:36.53 | DWSR | http://www.wowhead.com/?compare=50268.0.3883:49495;49495.0.3883:50303.0.3883 <--- This is why I'm sorta glad they're simplifying the stats a little bit. |
| 07:37.27 | DWSR | krka: The problem with avoidance is that it's subject to RNG. |
| 07:37.31 | ZorbaTHut | krka, it isn't really the issue. deaths in raids tend to be caused by strings of bad luck |
| 07:37.42 | DWSR | 0.5% avoidance can sometimes save you a *lot* more than 1% stamina. |
| 07:37.42 | ZorbaTHut | you can't optimize tanking for the average case, because it's not the average case that kills you, it's the worst case |
| 07:38.04 | msoul | DWSR: with good gear you can have both dps weps 2.60 one handers |
| 07:38.11 | DWSR | msoul: Yeah, I know. |
| 07:38.29 | ZorbaTHut | the 0.5% avoidance isn't going to make the average case all that much more unlikely, whereas the 1% stamina is somewhat more likely to keep you alive through a bad burst. |
| 07:38.29 | msoul | but always go with slow slow weps :) |
| 07:39.31 | ZorbaTHut | http://www.tankspot.com/photoplog/images/3632/1_chart-6-crossover-warrior.png here's sorta what you end up with |
| 07:39.33 | msoul | DWSR: i rerolled a warrior much much bettah tanking ;) just aoe is a bit toughie |
| 07:39.45 | msoul | charge, thunder clap shockwave.. aoe taunt when needed |
| 07:39.58 | ZorbaTHut | those two DK enchants are curious because they both get more powerful as your gear goes up, so actual numbers would rely heavily on a bunch of actual math |
| 07:41.16 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: So that graph is saying that if you have more than 25k health and the boss is hitting you for more than 20k, you prefer avoidance? |
| 07:41.59 | ZorbaTHut | at that point you either do the math yourself, lean on a tool for the math (rawr, spreadsheet), or go check someone who's generally authoritative. the generally authoritative people say "never use swordwhatevering". |
| 07:42.07 | ZorbaTHut | dwsr, pretty much, yep. http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?37241-The-power-of-avoidance-%28preliminary-results%29 <-- good article, read it |
| 07:42.35 | ZorbaTHut | I think there's a bunch of other assumptions going on |
| 07:42.48 | msoul | you went too far with an answer to a question over an enchant... |
| 07:43.10 | ZorbaTHut | and note that it's assuming those are the actual max boss hits |
| 07:43.16 | msoul | or betetr to say you took it way too serious |
| 07:43.28 | ZorbaTHut | including things like "the boss uses his crazy burst ability right when he smacks you" |
| 07:43.42 | ZorbaTHut | msoul, I don't see any particularly good reason to do a halfass job with knowledge. |
| 07:43.54 | msoul | heh. |
| 07:44.28 | ZorbaTHut | dwsr, also note that I believe that chart dates from BC ;) |
| 07:44.36 | DWSR | yeah :P |
| 07:44.38 | ZorbaTHut | avoidance works a bit differently now. |
| 07:44.43 | DWSR | since 25k health is really low by today's standards. |
| 07:45.05 | ZorbaTHut | and avoidance is no longer superlinear |
| 07:45.12 | ZorbaTHut | I think it's actually sublinear |
| 07:46.42 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Only problem with black Icicle is that I have to level my maces from 1-400. |
| 07:46.55 | ZorbaTHut | dwsr, there's some evidence that intellect still helps for that |
| 07:47.02 | msoul | DWSR: for heroics it isn't :) gearing up my warrior not even one single trinket that is for tanking nor cloak had no problems so far with tanking |
| 07:47.09 | ZorbaTHut | go get some cheap AH intellect gear, smack some dudes around |
| 07:47.21 | ZorbaTHut | hell go level up mining while you're at it |
| 07:47.43 | ZorbaTHut | and pick up engineering or blacksmithing at the same time (engineering is a damn sexy profession at the moment, especially for tanks) |
| 07:48.23 | ZorbaTHut | msoul, nobody really talks about tanking pre-raid anymore. if you've got blues, you can tank ilvl200 heroics. if you've got badge epics, you can tank the rest of the heroics. |
| 07:48.36 | ZorbaTHut | optimizing heroic tanking is kind of uninteresting, it comes down to "holy shit stamina forevar" |
| 07:49.02 | msoul | ZorbaTHut: i got to lvl 80 5 days ago... got decent gear from emblems no blues |
| 07:49.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Xyphoid (~xx@202-154-148-254.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz) |
| 07:49.21 | ZorbaTHut | msoul, if you've got green items, either buy the crafted blues (they're cheap) or replace 'em fast |
| 07:49.38 | msoul | Why engineering over JC though just out of curiousity i know the enchant is sexy on gloves... i have BS and mining atm |
| 07:50.07 | msoul | ZorbaTHut: will take 3 more days i think to get the trinket, ring and helmet |
| 07:50.13 | ZorbaTHut | it's basically because the enchant is sexy on gloves. |
| 07:50.18 | msoul | ZorbaTHut: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kazzak&cn=Rpbb |
| 07:50.21 | ZorbaTHut | it's a really, really good enchant. |
| 07:50.41 | msoul | it is i'm not saying it isn't... BS/JC is superior in my humble opinion |
| 07:50.55 | msoul | if you combine BS and jc that is |
| 07:51.02 | zenzio | ZorbaTHut: which enchant is this? |
| 07:51.03 | ZorbaTHut | combining the two isn't really a gain |
| 07:51.12 | ZorbaTHut | you get the same bonus with each one individually, there's no synergy between them |
| 07:51.18 | ZorbaTHut | zenzio, 885 armor to gloves |
| 07:51.26 | ZorbaTHut | Reticulated Armor Webbing |
| 07:52.44 | ZorbaTHut | jewelcrafting is 63 stamina, blacksmithing is 60 stamina, jewelcrafting + blacksmithing = 123 stamina. |
| 07:53.56 | DWSR | What's mining worth? |
| 07:53.56 | msoul | will continue mining till the next expansion.. have no mining on any other char now just the war |
| 07:54.01 | msoul | 60stam |
| 07:54.22 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 07:54.27 | ZorbaTHut | it's actually lower than 60 stamina |
| 07:54.44 | ZorbaTHut | actually no cancel that, it is exactly 60 stamina now |
| 07:54.54 | ZorbaTHut | I think at one point it was just +health, I guess that's changed now |
| 07:55.38 | zenzio | yup |
| 07:55.40 | Xyphoid | i'm looking for resources on how |color codes work in strings |
| 07:55.45 | msoul | today will work on getting that armor trinket/helmet |
| 07:55.49 | Shirik | very simple |
| 07:55.53 | Shirik | |cAARRGGBB |
| 07:56.03 | Shirik | hex values, 00 to FF |
| 07:56.12 | Shirik | alpha, red, green, blue |
| 07:56.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (~Srosh@c222145.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 07:56.21 | msoul | ZorbaTHut: aoe threat for warrion tank is a bit tricky |
| 07:56.25 | krka | |cAAARRRGGHHHHHH |
| 07:56.27 | Xyphoid | thanks |
| 07:56.32 | Shirik | thwacks krka |
| 07:56.49 | krka | i'm just talking about the pirate color code |
| 07:57.04 | msoul | ZorbaTHut: you happen to have a link for warr tank macros i've looked into a lot and have plenty just want to check if there are more |
| 07:57.15 | Shirik | Did you know that the letter "A" has a plural? |
| 07:57.16 | Shirik | "aes" |
| 07:57.21 | ZorbaTHut | msoul, I don't really bother with macros. I got a foot pedal unit so I can constantly cleave easily, that's about it :P |
| 07:57.32 | msoul | aah |
| 07:57.41 | Shirik | ~wiki A |
| 07:57.45 | *** join/#wowuidev neOliv (~oliv@htr06-1-82-227-228-20.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 07:57.55 | msoul | ZorbaTHut: you'd laugh if you see how i tank.. mac keyboard :P |
| 07:58.06 | msoul | and nothing on my mouse just dismount |
| 07:58.16 | zenzio | msoul: apart from a macro for Charge/Intervene/Intercept, I use no macros realted to tanking |
| 07:58.20 | msoul | haven't done anything about it yet... geraring up atm |
| 07:58.21 | zenzio | *related |
| 07:58.34 | msoul | zenzio: i have this |
| 07:59.15 | zenzio | I don't think you should have a problem without macros |
| 07:59.34 | zenzio | last time I checked, Mac keyboards still had 1-0 keys |
| 07:59.39 | msoul | #showtooltip /castsequence [harm] reset=15 Charge, Intercept, Charge; [help] Intervene; |
| 08:00.12 | *** join/#wowuidev robotusch (~robotusch@50A2DCE4.flatrate.dk) |
| 08:00.13 | zenzio | nah, not that one. One that casts Intervene on a friendly (ToT), charges on right mouse button, etc |
| 08:00.14 | msoul | zenzio: hahah yeah would be a lot fun to play with naga mouse or that keypad from elkin |
| 08:00.27 | msoul | Hmmm |
| 08:00.33 | DWSR | msoul: I have both. |
| 08:00.53 | msoul | DWSR: fun stuff :) |
| 08:01.19 | Fisker | i troll u |
| 08:01.22 | msoul | zenzio: think i missed that one not sure might have it |
| 08:01.34 | msoul | have to check when i get home |
| 08:02.06 | msoul | zenzio: thing i need to get used to is aoe threat it's fine so far in heroics haven't tanked any raid yet |
| 08:02.11 | msoul | wit hthe warr that is |
| 08:02.13 | DWSR | msoul: I don't actually have enough stuff for the amount of buttons that I have. |
| 08:02.19 | DWSR | msoul: I'm close, but I need macros for my Naga. |
| 08:02.21 | Xyphoid | is it possible to end a color section of a string and get back to default? |
| 08:02.30 | DWSR | yes. |
| 08:02.31 | DWSR | |r |
| 08:02.34 | Xyphoid | ta |
| 08:02.40 | Fisker | slaps Shirik around a bit with a large trout |
| 08:02.47 | msoul | DWSR: when i tank with the dk i just have !rune strike with every ability |
| 08:02.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 08:03.03 | *** part/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-68-32-134-121.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 08:03.04 | Xyphoid | woop, first mod complete! |
| 08:03.05 | zenzio | msoul: AoE threat is really simple; just keep Thunder Clapping and switching between targets with your normal attacks |
| 08:03.30 | DWSR | msoul: Yeah, that's pretty much what I have. |
| 08:03.38 | msoul | zenzio: yeah i have to get to use that you're absolutely right |
| 08:03.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Xyphoid (~xx@unaffiliated/xyphoid) |
| 08:03.59 | msoul | zenzio: just love the fact i have aoe taunt for emergency |
| 08:04.00 | zenzio | you just seem to consider it worse than it is :) |
| 08:04.15 | msoul | hehe |
| 08:04.40 | zenzio | Challenging Shout is nice, but it'll only get you so far. It's not a proper taunt, so your friends will still get smacked in, what is it, 6 seconds? |
| 08:04.54 | DWSR | zenzio: That's how all taunts work. |
| 08:05.10 | zenzio | DWSR: not the Taunt ability |
| 08:05.51 | msoul | zenzio: lets see how it goes with the next few weeks.... think will be done with gearing by this weekend |
| 08:06.05 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: How much armor should I be looking to have? |
| 08:06.13 | ZorbaTHut | dwsr, as much as possible? :P |
| 08:06.19 | ZorbaTHut | it's not like it stops being useful at any reasonable point |
| 08:06.28 | DWSR | yes it does. |
| 08:06.31 | msoul | armor and stam :P |
| 08:06.32 | DWSR | There's an armor cap. |
| 08:06.37 | ZorbaTHut | sure, that's why I said "reasonable" |
| 08:06.41 | ZorbaTHut | if you're not at the cap yet, you want more armor. |
| 08:06.44 | ZorbaTHut | also, you're not at the cap yet. |
| 08:06.52 | DWSR | Cap's 40k, right? |
| 08:06.59 | ZorbaTHut | 45k |
| 08:06.59 | msoul | DWSR: get that trinket from emblems GREAT great trinket |
| 08:07.06 | DWSR | msoul: Already got it. |
| 08:07.15 | msoul | cloak is next then |
| 08:07.27 | msoul | 60 emblems of frost iirc |
| 08:07.32 | msoul | or 50 |
| 08:07.33 | DWSR | Oh, you're talking about EoF? |
| 08:07.37 | DWSR | I was talking about the EoT trinket. |
| 08:07.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (~Wobin@124-171-14-54.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 08:07.45 | DWSR | I want the corroded skeleton key so badly. |
| 08:08.48 | msoul | Glyph_of_Indomitability |
| 08:09.30 | msoul | 1792 armor, increase dodge rating by 512 for 20 secs on use |
| 08:09.40 | DWSR | yeah. |
| 08:09.44 | DWSR | that one's smexy. |
| 08:09.56 | DWSR | I have Essence of Gossamer and the 245 Onyxia Trinket as well. |
| 08:10.03 | msoul | working on it now for the warr... will get the stam from toc normal till i get a better one |
| 08:10.26 | msoul | its good the one from onyxia if you're after avoidance |
| 08:10.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 08:10.52 | msoul | would want it too if i can have access... nowadays you cannot get into a raid without GS score... silly silly thing |
| 08:11.15 | msoul | "I want to gear up with the help of you randoms and I reserve stuff" is basically what happening nowadays :/ |
| 08:11.44 | msoul | i have to reserve items... i hate it when someone requires you to have 5400GS score and he doesn't have have 5k himself nor the ach for the raid |
| 08:11.56 | msoul | s/have/hate |
| 08:12.03 | DWSR | msoul: Gearing up is hard. |
| 08:12.06 | DWSR | NOT |
| 08:12.15 | msoul | tell that to the kids on kazzak |
| 08:12.24 | DWSR | I have a 5k GS in about a week from purely emblem gear. |
| 08:12.29 | msoul | LR did quit cause of all that hopla among other things |
| 08:12.30 | DWSR | It's really not that hard. |
| 08:12.37 | DWSR | I just did heroics until my eyes bled and then some. |
| 08:12.55 | msoul | do you have ach too? and do you come to nbank dala to gear inspect you? if not don't bother |
| 08:12.56 | haste | it might not be hard, but it still takes a lot of time |
| 08:13.04 | msoul | heh the other day a dude was asking GS for "for the horde" |
| 08:13.21 | msoul | haste: 5 days and i geared up for fury dps and tank |
| 08:13.26 | msoul | it isn't hard :) |
| 08:13.33 | msoul | yes it does take a lot of time |
| 08:13.33 | DWSR | It doesn't take a long time, either. |
| 08:13.34 | DWSR | Not anymore. |
| 08:13.41 | msoul | lots of hcs |
| 08:13.46 | haste | tanks and healers are special :p |
| 08:13.50 | msoul | :P |
| 08:13.56 | DWSR | yeah. |
| 08:13.56 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 08:14.01 | DWSR | I did all mine as a tank. |
| 08:14.03 | DWSR | 10 seconds queues. |
| 08:14.04 | DWSR | win |
| 08:14.06 | msoul | i'm leaning toward tanking more these days |
| 08:14.18 | haste | DPS is 20min on grim batol |
| 08:14.26 | DWSR | haste: It's 20 minutes anywhere you go |
| 08:14.26 | haste | healers are under 1min |
| 08:14.37 | DWSR | haste: Healers here are <3min |
| 08:14.42 | DWSR | DPS is <20min |
| 08:14.45 | DWSR | tank is <10sec |
| 08:14.54 | haste | dps is up and down for several realms |
| 08:15.02 | haste | but it matters when you queue on the day as well |
| 08:15.04 | msoul | haste: one thing i hate most about LFG system... you join as a healer pala and you need on dps/tanking items on last boss or whatever then leave |
| 08:15.05 | DWSR | yeah. |
| 08:15.24 | DWSR | msoul: The problem is that it's work to stop that sort of stuff. A lot of work. |
| 08:15.26 | ZorbaTHut | personally I solve that by just saying, in the beginning, "i'm going to need on (whatever)" |
| 08:15.28 | msoul | happened to me sooooooo many times |
| 08:15.31 | ZorbaTHut | "if you don't like it, you're welcome to leave" |
| 08:16.03 | DWSR | msoul: Meh, I did what Zorba said, also, realize that you can upgrade all of your slots (except your second trinket slot and weapons) with badge gear. |
| 08:16.14 | msoul | ZorbaTHut: i probably should od that |
| 08:16.16 | DWSR | msoul: I'm wearing a conquest back and waist right now. |
| 08:16.35 | DWSR | And don't forget those tiers are tuned for when emblems weren't falling from the sky. |
| 08:16.49 | DWSR | So you can pick up pieces from conquest in like 3-4 heroic runs. |
| 08:16.59 | msoul | DWSR: once i get trinket/cloak think will gear up from toc10 normal onyxia and ulduar |
| 08:17.09 | msoul | i can craft the vest/wrist though |
| 08:17.29 | msoul | need to spend a lot of g and i have about 3k now "spent a lot to max few professions |
| 08:17.43 | msoul | alchemy/BS/JC |
| 08:17.57 | msoul | and bought silly silly stuff |
| 08:18.07 | msoul | i.e. hog, traveller tundra kirin tor ring |
| 08:18.11 | msoul | all over 10k |
| 08:18.35 | msoul | the things i do regret now :) |
| 08:18.38 | DWSR | meh. |
| 08:18.44 | DWSR | I crafted the 264 tanking boots. |
| 08:18.46 | DWSR | That's it. |
| 08:18.50 | msoul | ohh nice |
| 08:18.58 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-68-32-134-121.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 08:19.00 | msoul | wish i have enough gold :) |
| 08:19.21 | DWSR | I burned Frost Emblems on my extremely well-geared main |
| 08:19.23 | msoul | i can get up to 4 prem i think the titansteel bar got the mats for it |
| 08:19.33 | *** part/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-68-32-134-121.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 08:20.24 | msoul | not worried, me and my friend druid tank will do raids together |
| 08:20.35 | msoul | toc/onyxia to get the missing parts |
| 08:22.50 | msoul | which enchant is better btw for one hander war |
| 08:22.56 | msoul | mongoose or blood draining |
| 08:23.11 | msoul | i see a lot go with blood over mongoose for icc |
| 08:23.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Antiarc (~Antiarc@ip70-190-192-186.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 08:23.35 | zenzio | Mongoose? o_O |
| 08:23.53 | DWSR | Blood Draining is a tanking enchant, isn't it? |
| 08:24.07 | msoul | yeah |
| 08:24.09 | zenzio | I thought everyone dropped Mongoose after BC |
| 08:24.11 | DWSR | Also, shouldn't you be using assault? |
| 08:24.19 | DWSR | Or Massacre, actually. |
| 08:24.32 | msoul | zenzio: no not really |
| 08:24.42 | zenzio | funny, must just be every tank on my realm thjen |
| 08:24.44 | zenzio | *then |
| 08:24.57 | msoul | zenzio: hehe |
| 08:25.08 | msoul | kungen doesn't even consider blood draining he think it sucks :P |
| 08:25.09 | *** join/#wowuidev digmouse|work (~chatzilla@124.205.157.50) |
| 08:25.25 | zenzio | Kungen is not always "right" |
| 08:25.31 | msoul | aye |
| 08:25.38 | zenzio | but I'd say using Mongoose today is silly |
| 08:26.03 | DWSR | Isn't there an AP enchant for 1hers? |
| 08:26.19 | msoul | zenzio: will go with blood draining when i get a better wep |
| 08:26.31 | msoul | zenzio: i have the one from hor farlic |
| 08:26.58 | zenzio | I don't think Blood Draining looks worth it at all |
| 08:27.08 | zenzio | 360-440 health for a tank? |
| 08:27.19 | msoul | what enchant you have |
| 08:27.22 | msoul | blade ward? |
| 08:27.36 | zenzio | currently, yes; but I used to go with Accuracy |
| 08:27.48 | msoul | i see |
| 08:28.58 | DWSR | Yeah, you want Blade Warding |
| 08:29.22 | msoul | will go with either of them |
| 08:29.29 | msoul | the other day lock got titanguard from ulduar |
| 08:29.41 | msoul | ofc not for him his budy probably then left |
| 08:29.51 | DWSR | meh. |
| 08:29.57 | msoul | did annoy me |
| 08:30.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (~kalroth@0x573f1066.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1101.hjnqu1.customer.tele.dk) |
| 08:30.04 | DWSR | whatever, you have a better weapon |
| 08:30.12 | msoul | the farlic one? |
| 08:31.04 | msoul | http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kazzak&cn=Rpbb |
| 08:31.10 | msoul | that's my gear so far |
| 08:31.17 | msoul | today will try to get helmet/trinket |
| 08:31.23 | DWSR | I love AFK leveling weapon skills. |
| 08:31.26 | DWSR | gogo tanking. |
| 08:31.45 | msoul | i can tell you about a place where you need do nothing |
| 08:31.55 | DWSR | I can tell you about a place where you need to do nothing. |
| 08:32.02 | msoul | dark maul |
| 08:32.11 | DWSR | You mean Dire Maul? |
| 08:32.13 | msoul | is not killabl3e |
| 08:32.16 | msoul | uyeah sorry |
| 08:32.19 | DWSR | Yeah, that's fail. |
| 08:32.23 | msoul | :( |
| 08:32.29 | msoul | where do you go to |
| 08:32.29 | DWSR | Can't level up your weapon skill on something that low at a reasonable pace. |
| 08:32.34 | msoul | i did |
| 08:32.44 | msoul | level axe/mace there and few two handers |
| 08:32.46 | DWSR | I've been at this 15 minutes, I'm about to hit 400. |
| 08:33.03 | DWSR | I just walk out to the Ironwall Dam. |
| 08:33.15 | msoul | dunno where that is |
| 08:33.23 | DWSR | Spitting distance from Dalaran. |
| 08:33.23 | msoul | SP? |
| 08:33.27 | DWSR | lvl82 elites. |
| 08:33.29 | DWSR | No, ICC. |
| 08:33.33 | DWSR | er. |
| 08:33.34 | DWSR | IC* |
| 08:33.49 | msoul | Hmmmm |
| 08:34.13 | msoul | ohh |
| 08:34.14 | msoul | that |
| 08:34.46 | DWSR | yeah. |
| 08:34.48 | DWSR | l82 elites. |
| 08:34.54 | DWSR | Good for leveling up your defense skill at the same time. |
| 08:35.08 | msoul | think it's maxed already not sure |
| 08:35.11 | Wobin | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32vpgNiAH60&feature=player_embedded# |
| 08:35.55 | DWSR | Meh. |
| 08:36.01 | DWSR | It's not exactly 100% maintenance free. |
| 08:36.07 | DWSR | But it's pretty close. |
| 08:37.54 | msoul | bbiaw |
| 08:42.43 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar_atwork (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 08:50.23 | Fisker | damn |
| 08:50.46 | digmouse|work | IE9 scored 32 @ Acid3! BRILLIANT! |
| 08:50.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Ginji (~Ginji@cc1040670-a.gorre1.fr.home.nl) |
| 08:50.54 | Wobin | ...32 |
| 08:50.57 | Wobin | out of? |
| 08:51.02 | Fisker | This is my 35th password change or account suspension i've gotten in the last month |
| 08:51.08 | digmouse|work | 12 more than IE8! |
| 08:51.35 | Fisker | noone cares about AciD3 anyway |
| 08:51.37 | digmouse|work | almost as brilliant as FF1.0! |
| 08:51.52 | digmouse|work | Wobin: out of 100 |
| 08:52.27 | digmouse|work | Chrome 4 @ 100/100, FF3.6 94/100 |
| 08:59.20 | haste | acid3 is a nice "stress" test of the JS-engine, but most of it isn't used in real appliactions |
| 09:00.02 | Fisker | hey haste |
| 09:00.15 | digmouse|work | ye, but to me it indicates which browser renders the most original design |
| 09:00.59 | Shadowed | Origiainl design? :p |
| 09:01.02 | Shadowed | Original* |
| 09:01.16 | Shadowed | I don't think you can call something that implements a standard to exactly be original! |
| 09:02.06 | Kalroth | an original standard! |
| 09:05.44 | Arrowmaster | http://kotaku.com/5494261/stars-wars-strippers-we-never-want-to-see-again/gallery/ |
| 09:05.47 | Arrowmaster | what |
| 09:05.47 | Arrowmaster | the |
| 09:05.49 | Arrowmaster | fuck |
| 09:06.50 | Fisker | i want to see the r2d2 stripper moar |
| 09:07.24 | Fisker | hahaha death star stripper |
| 09:07.33 | Zyn | and no Twi Lek strippers |
| 09:07.35 | Zyn | wtf |
| 09:08.12 | Corrodias | wow. just wow. |
| 09:08.23 | Wobin | r2d2 stripper is CREEPY |
| 09:08.45 | Corrodias | yes, yet somehow, the least creepy of the bunch |
| 09:10.59 | digmouse|work | any C3PO |
| 09:14.10 | DWSR | rofl @ the probe droid stripped |
| 09:14.14 | DWSR | stripper* |
| 09:14.30 | DWSR | s/probe droid/death star/ |
| 09:15.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (caleb@client-129-232.wifi.elte.hu) |
| 09:16.17 | Arrowmaster | its just a painted umbrella, kinda shitty costume |
| 09:20.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Olison (olison@fukdruidsgrr.org) |
| 09:21.31 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 09:24.41 | *** join/#wowuidev bleeter (~bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 09:34.46 | Fisker | haste |
| 09:38.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Wraanger (~chatzilla@81.200.20.212) |
| 09:39.06 | Fisker | bleeter ? |
| 09:51.05 | ZorbaTHut | those are completely awesome and I would give them all dollar bills |
| 09:53.17 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut |
| 09:53.26 | DWSR | I don't know about this DPS weapon |
| 09:53.33 | DWSR | I mean, the DPSer in me is happy. |
| 09:53.40 | DWSR | The tank in me is like BUT TEH STAMZ. |
| 09:54.41 | ZorbaTHut | if you're grouping with people doing terrible DPS, or in the occasional fight where threat is largely unimportant, you can use a tanking weapon. but you really gain very little from weapons (they're terrible sources of itemization, besides the "free" DPS and speed) and you'll take a huge threat penalty from using a fast weapon. |
| 09:57.53 | Grum | is there any easy way other than tooltip parsing to see if an item is 'Heroic' ? |
| 09:58.01 | DWSR | Yes. |
| 09:58.02 | DWSR | ilvl. |
| 09:58.12 | Grum | ah yes |
| 09:58.22 | Grum | but not always |
| 09:59.48 | DWSR | Grum: Well, it depends. |
| 09:59.57 | DWSR | Grum: If you want to check if it's the heroic VERSION, then you can use ilvl. |
| 10:00.12 | DWSR | If you want to check if it's a drop from A hardmode, then you need to tooltip scrape. |
| 10:00.33 | Grum | well not true |
| 10:00.56 | Grum | you cannot distinguish between ilvl264 heroic and non heroic unless you know all non-heroic itemids (but then you might as well list all the heroic ones) |
| 10:04.45 | DWSR | You seem to think that I haven't already implied that |
| 10:08.43 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO|iphone (~akoiphone@166.137.9.156) |
| 10:10.20 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Yeah, I know. |
| 10:10.28 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: I'm just having a really hard time convincing myself of that. |
| 10:10.28 | DWSR | :P |
| 10:10.46 | A-KO|iphone | Waking up with cat on chest.... |
| 10:10.55 | ZorbaTHut | seriously, break out rawr or another spreadsheet that lets you split it into the important tank factors |
| 10:10.59 | A-KO|iphone | Big purring cat on chest |
| 10:11.09 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Numbers lie. |
| 10:11.09 | ZorbaTHut | use that to test out what differences it makes |
| 10:11.10 | Arrowmaster | is it still on your chest? |
| 10:11.14 | ZorbaTHut | no, interpretations lie |
| 10:11.22 | ZorbaTHut | and bad analysis lies |
| 10:11.29 | ZorbaTHut | accurate numbers tell the truth. learn what truth the numbers are telling. |
| 10:12.02 | A-KO|iphone | Arrowmaster: It got up and moved right beside me. |
| 10:12.11 | DWSR | "what truth" <-- lies |
| 10:12.52 | A-KO|iphone | Loves attention |
| 10:13.00 | DWSR | Also, Rawr's lock model is STILL fucking broken. |
| 10:13.11 | A-KO|iphone | Owww |
| 10:13.39 | A-KO|iphone | Cat climbed back on me and is now clawing my crotch |
| 10:13.57 | A-KO|iphone | Ahh shit oww |
| 10:14.13 | ZorbaTHut | *shrug* there are always going to be inaccuracies in simulations. but generally the sim is accurate enough to be useful. learn to fix the sim, learn what it gets right and what it doesn't. |
| 10:14.31 | ZorbaTHut | humans are tool-using creatures. refusing to use tools does mean you won't be deceived or harmed by them. but it also means you won't be helped by them. |
| 10:14.35 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Well, writing it in .NET would be a pretty big start. |
| 10:14.52 | DWSR | Though, silverlight isn't much better |
| 10:15.17 | A-KO|iphone | Jesus oww |
| 10:15.49 | ZorbaTHut | aren't cats awesome |
| 10:16.02 | A-KO|iphone | Haha |
| 10:16.44 | Xyphoid | woop: http://www.xi.co.nz/images/faves.png |
| 10:16.56 | A-KO|iphone | What a bitch. She does all that clawing like she's gonna lay down then gets up to go lay on her blanket |
| 10:17.18 | DWSR | I'm glad to see that they finally fixed the retarded default of having all of the buffs checked. |
| 10:17.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Teomyr (teo@HSI-KBW-085-216-123-189.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 10:18.38 | ZorbaTHut | I actually think that's a reasonable default if you're doing 25-man raiding |
| 10:18.50 | ZorbaTHut | it's tough to come up with a sane default for 10-man raiding. I wonder how many buffs the average group actually covers |
| 10:18.54 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: What's Burst vs. Reaction? |
| 10:19.15 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: I think the minimum number of classes you need to get all of the buffs is 9. |
| 10:19.17 | ZorbaTHut | dwsr, I got no idea. I'm going to assume that burst is "how quickly you die if everything goes wrong". |
| 10:19.20 | DWSR | So, probably 70%. |
| 10:19.37 | DWSR | s/classes/people/ |
| 10:19.43 | ZorbaTHut | Reaction's a new one to me. |
| 10:19.51 | ZorbaTHut | maybe they should provide 70% of all buffs, then :D |
| 10:20.01 | ZorbaTHut | I do think it's ridiculous that they don't autocheck the buffs that you yourself provide. |
| 10:20.29 | ZorbaTHut | like, hello, I'm a druid. I can pretty much guarantee Mark of the Wild will be up. |
| 10:21.58 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Here's what I love. |
| 10:22.01 | Fisker | ZorbaTHut |
| 10:22.14 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: I love Rawr telling me that I have 527 Defense. |
| 10:22.20 | DWSR | When in fact I have 538 defense. |
| 10:22.31 | ZorbaTHut | play with the numbers, see where the error is |
| 10:22.45 | DWSR | I imported my armory profile. |
| 10:22.49 | DWSR | The error is *in* Rawr. |
| 10:23.07 | ZorbaTHut | find what's causing it |
| 10:23.13 | ZorbaTHut | sheesh, gimme a link to your armory, I'll see if I can dig it out |
| 10:23.22 | Kalroth | Users! |
| 10:23.34 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Emerald+Dream&n=Arelin |
| 10:25.03 | DWSR | And now, of course it's valuing Defense gems as the best thing for me atm. |
| 10:25.09 | DWSR | Because it doesn't think I'm capped. |
| 10:28.03 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Have you found the problem yet? |
| 10:28.45 | ZorbaTHut | no, it's a curious one. I get a different value adding it by hand than either rawr or armory does |
| 10:28.55 | ZorbaTHut | are you using any sort of defense food or potion? |
| 10:28.59 | DWSR | no. |
| 10:29.02 | DWSR | I'm currently buffless. |
| 10:29.09 | DWSR | And the game's giving me 538 |
| 10:29.24 | zenzio | what are you aiming to tank? |
| 10:29.29 | DWSR | Your mom. |
| 10:29.29 | ZorbaTHut | in fairness, 538 is also under defense cap |
| 10:29.34 | zenzio | exactly |
| 10:29.37 | Fisker | not for heroics |
| 10:29.37 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Yeah, I just picked up a trophy. |
| 10:29.50 | ZorbaTHut | that said, I'm rather intriuged about where the mismatch is |
| 10:30.09 | Kalroth | I get 551 defense rating from the items, which is 112 defense |
| 10:30.10 | DWSR | Since I swapped to the Black Icicle + Essence of Gossamer, I'm 2 points short, which will be remedied when I pick up my T9.25 chestpiece. |
| 10:30.18 | DWSR | Kalroth: Yep, that's what the game saids. |
| 10:30.25 | ZorbaTHut | kalroth, for some reason I get 536 when adding it up, I wonder what I'm missing |
| 10:30.28 | DWSR | s/saids/says/ |
| 10:30.37 | Kalroth | ZorbaTHut: enchants and gems? |
| 10:30.41 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: So, have we sufficiently proven that Rawr is broken? |
| 10:30.52 | Kalroth | 20+82+15+53+38+63+10+34+80+49+57+10+40 |
| 10:30.55 | ZorbaTHut | nope, got those |
| 10:31.06 | ZorbaTHut | dwsr, I'm not actually fully convinced - I'd want to figure out where the bug is |
| 10:31.22 | ZorbaTHut | oh there it is, I missed the 15 |
| 10:31.43 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Well, I'm not touching Rawr2 when Rawr3's hitting public beta soon. |
| 10:31.57 | ZorbaTHut | 52 is an odd number of defense rating to be missing, I can't quite tell what could be causing that |
| 10:32.04 | DWSR | Yes. |
| 10:32.09 | ZorbaTHut | in any case, look for a spreadsheet instead, then |
| 10:32.17 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: EJ doesn't list one. |
| 10:32.23 | DWSR | Any other resources I should check? |
| 10:32.35 | Kalroth | well what do you want to know? |
| 10:33.09 | ZorbaTHut | not offhand |
| 10:33.25 | DWSR | Kalroth: I don't even know anymore. |
| 10:33.25 | ZorbaTHut | kalroth, mostly, I'm recommending automated tools for the purpose of playing with numbers and getting useful information on what tradeoffs actually look at |
| 10:33.35 | ZorbaTHut | instead of trying to figure it out by doing raids with different gear |
| 10:34.12 | DWSR | Since that's subjective at best, anyway. |
| 10:34.14 | Kalroth | read various tanking threads? :p |
| 10:34.19 | DWSR | Kalroth: =\ |
| 10:34.26 | DWSR | by the way. |
| 10:34.29 | Kalroth | or is reading suddenly hard?! |
| 10:34.41 | DWSR | Does the LFD system give you the same fucking heroic that you've deserted? |
| 10:34.47 | DWSR | Because I've had HoL 4 times in a row. |
| 10:34.58 | Kalroth | random is random |
| 10:35.16 | ZorbaTHut | I've actually heard that complaint often enough that it wouldn't entirely surprise me if it did |
| 10:35.31 | ZorbaTHut | I mean there's no claim made at all that it's truly random |
| 10:35.58 | ZorbaTHut | and that's what I would do if I were Blizzard, and a dick. But I repeat myself. |
| 10:35.59 | Kalroth | Its pretty easy to test :) |
| 10:36.10 | ZorbaTHut | kalroth, not hugely easy, you'd need a reasonably large test sample. |
| 10:36.51 | Kalroth | Uhm, you can't do a 100% test, but if you get the same instance say 15 times a row on 2 characters, then I'd say its close enough |
| 10:37.00 | ZorbaTHut | huh, I just realized that the tank/healer shortage in LFD is actually positive-feedbacking on itself |
| 10:37.16 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: ? |
| 10:37.20 | Kalroth | what do you mean? that it makes more people spec tank/healer? |
| 10:37.26 | ZorbaTHut | tanks and healers get more badges per hour of LFD work, and thus they stop participating in LFD more quickly |
| 10:37.39 | Kalroth | thats negative (for dps!) |
| 10:37.48 | DWSR | Well fuck you anyway. |
| 10:37.49 | ZorbaTHut | therefore there are fewer tanks and healers available to participate, and therefore the DPS queue gets longer, and therefore tanks and healers get even more badges per hour relative to DPS. |
| 10:37.56 | ZorbaTHut | kalroth, positive feedback doesn't imply it's good |
| 10:38.07 | ZorbaTHut | it implies it's self-sustaining and even self-encouraging |
| 10:38.18 | Kalroth | ZorbaTHut: Both are positive words! |
| 10:38.25 | ZorbaTHut | denied :) |
| 10:38.31 | Kalroth | so negative :( |
| 10:38.40 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: I think you meant "Assertion failed" |
| 10:38.45 | Kalroth | anyways, that is very true |
| 10:38.48 | ZorbaTHut | man I have no idea how blizzard is gonna try to fix that. I still like my idea of gold bounties to skip the queue, but full DPS classes just get screwed either way |
| 10:39.01 | Kalroth | and its even more true now that many raiders got their badge gear |
| 10:39.20 | Kalroth | since its usually us, the peak of wow players, that carry the mouthbreating dps through heroics |
| 10:39.21 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: I do that all the time anyway. |
| 10:39.38 | DWSR | If I'm not running for my frost, I'm offering queues. |
| 10:39.45 | Kalroth | ZorbaTHut: Easy to fix, make it more rewarding to be a tank or healer. |
| 10:39.59 | DWSR | Kalroth: You'd have to globally mute every single DPS. |
| 10:40.00 | ZorbaTHut | kalroth, well, that still leads to pure-DPS being screwed |
| 10:40.04 | ZorbaTHut | which I don't think blizzard wants to do |
| 10:40.08 | Xyphoid | pure-dps only needs one set of gear |
| 10:40.15 | DWSR | Xyphoid: Not true. |
| 10:40.20 | Kalroth | For a starter, force all DKs to tank. That's a huge pool of tanks there alone. |
| 10:40.21 | ZorbaTHut | xyphoid, so do some hybrids |
| 10:40.33 | ZorbaTHut | I use almost the same gear on my balance/resto druid sets |
| 10:40.46 | ZorbaTHut | (I think right now it's identical besides trinkets, weapon, and idol) |
| 10:40.54 | Kalroth | pure dps wouldn't be screwed if the hybrid classes actually played like a hybrid |
| 10:40.57 | DWSR | Xyphoid: You'll find that a hunter who's spec'ed survival has a very different set of stat priorities than a marks hunter. |
| 10:41.29 | Kalroth | but the LFD queue will be fucked as long as you got druids that can't tank or heal, warriors and dks that can't tank, paladins that can't tank or heal |
| 10:41.45 | ZorbaTHut | kalroth, well, the problem is that tanks and healers are strongly discouraged to do that by the player base |
| 10:41.48 | DWSR | Kalroth: Those that queue for a role that they can't fill. |
| 10:41.59 | ZorbaTHut | now that, that's a social problem |
| 10:42.04 | DWSR | Kalroth: There's nothing wrong with people who play a hybrid in only one role. |
| 10:42.08 | ZorbaTHut | that's even *harder* to fix. |
| 10:42.14 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Like I said. |
| 10:42.29 | ZorbaTHut | dwsr, there sort of is something wrong with that, though, in that it causes huge playerbase imbalances |
| 10:42.48 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Then force classes to only have tank/healer trees. |
| 10:42.55 | DWSR | Take away Feral's DPS potency. |
| 10:42.57 | Kalroth | ZorbaTHut: Eh what? It has nothing to do with that and if anything then tanks and healers are usually more respected than DPS. |
| 10:43.03 | DWSR | And nerf the shit out of Balance. |
| 10:43.07 | DWSR | And bring back Vanilla Ret. |
| 10:43.10 | Kalroth | The issue is very, very simple: a tank and/or healer has to be a leader. |
| 10:43.20 | Kalroth | Most DPS are usually too dumb to lead anything |
| 10:43.22 | Xyphoid | yep, a tank has to know what mobs can do |
| 10:43.38 | zenzio | not that often anymore |
| 10:43.40 | ZorbaTHut | there's four healer classes, four tank classes, and ten dps classes. meanwhile, a party is a 1/1/3 breakdown. in order for that to work, the hybrids need to be roughly evenly distributed among their specs |
| 10:43.51 | zenzio | in BC and before you more often had to know the mobs |
| 10:43.53 | ZorbaTHut | kalroth, in my experience, the tank and/or healer are the ones yelled at when anything goes wrong |
| 10:43.58 | Kalroth | So you basically got smart people (that arent lazy) rolling tanks and healers, while the rest rolls DPS |
| 10:44.01 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Someone suggested making Cata's groups 6 players. |
| 10:44.04 | ZorbaTHut | mostly because, in fairness, a good tank and a good healer can basically carry the entire party. |
| 10:44.13 | Kalroth | ZorbaTHut: Usually its the DPS fucking up, so dunno :p |
| 10:44.14 | zenzio | and often do |
| 10:44.23 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: And usually do. |
| 10:44.31 | Kalroth | "OI HUNTARD YOURE STANDING IN FIRE. AGAIN." |
| 10:44.40 | ZorbaTHut | I had a paladin healer on my DK who was healing in retribution, in full retribution gear |
| 10:44.45 | zenzio | I support the 6-player group idea |
| 10:44.46 | ZorbaTHut | hey your flash of light heals about 8% of my hit points |
| 10:44.48 | ZorbaTHut | this is going to go well |
| 10:44.55 | zenzio | but it would require retuning stuff |
| 10:45.04 | Kalroth | zenzio: yes so the tank and healer can carry 4 DPS rather than 3 DPS - great idea! |
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| 10:45.18 | Kalroth | (/sarcasm) |
| 10:45.24 | zenzio | Kalroth: it would allow them to require more CC/utility again |
| 10:45.35 | ZorbaTHut | I honestly think they should add a second tier of heroics |
| 10:45.40 | Kalroth | uhm, no, we've moved past that a long time ago |
| 10:45.46 | ZorbaTHut | you have the leveling dungeons, the level 80 dungeons, and the serious dungeons. |
| 10:45.46 | zenzio | and I think we should move back |
| 10:45.50 | zenzio | instances today are too boring |
| 10:45.50 | DWSR | what zenzio said. |
| 10:46.04 | ZorbaTHut | and make the serious dungeons actually hard, so you can't carry people through. |
| 10:46.09 | Kalroth | Blizzard can't make stuff hard again, they're aiming for the average wow player now - this clearly shows in heroics and raids. |
| 10:46.19 | Kalroth | Compare TBC heroics with WotLK heroics. |
| 10:46.22 | ZorbaTHut | (of course, figuring out how to make that work despite gear inflation is merely an implementation detail, ho ho) |
| 10:46.26 | zenzio | I'm not expecting Blizzard to, I'm just stating what I would like |
| 10:46.30 | ZorbaTHut | kalroth, that's why I say "level 80 dungeons" |
| 10:46.30 | Kalroth | Anyone remember Arcatraz heroic? Shattered Halls heroic? |
| 10:46.36 | ZorbaTHut | keep a tier of stuff that's intended for the average player |
| 10:46.45 | Xyphoid | remember those in full BT gear? |
| 10:46.48 | ZorbaTHut | it shows in raids, we have heroic raids and they're actually hard |
| 10:46.53 | Kalroth | ZorbaTHut: We got that today and noone runs them |
| 10:46.54 | ZorbaTHut | let's make some variant of 5-mans that are actually hard too |
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| 10:47.02 | Kalroth | Xyphoid: why would you run them in BT gear? |
| 10:47.02 | ZorbaTHut | call it "superheroic dungeons" :D |
| 10:47.14 | zenzio | ZorbaTHut: legendary dungeons |
| 10:47.33 | Kalroth | ZorbaTHut: Sure, are you going to handle the forum QQ from "THIS 5 MAN IS TOO HARD WHY DOES THINGS HAVE TO BE SO HARD" |
| 10:47.38 | ZorbaTHut | zenzio, there was actually a third tier in the game code which was "epic" |
| 10:47.43 | ZorbaTHut | kalroth, we already get that |
| 10:47.52 | ZorbaTHut | I'm pretty sure blizzard is skilled at dealing with difficulty QQ by now |
| 10:48.01 | Kalroth | I'm not convinced :p |
| 10:50.57 | DWSR | yeah, I'm not really either. |
| 10:50.58 | DWSR | But hey. |
| 10:58.36 | DWSR | wow. |
| 10:58.49 | DWSR | Black Heart is the 7th best tanking trinket for me. |
| 10:58.57 | DWSR | Man, tanking trinkets suck |
| 10:59.07 | Kalroth | Well it is a good tanking trinket |
| 10:59.30 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: btw, I just dropped Mob level down to 80. |
| 10:59.34 | DWSR | So that it thinks I'm dcapped. |
| 11:00.05 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, there definitely seems to be something fucked with the tank DK set, which is curious because I've never had trouble with any other model |
| 11:00.21 | ZorbaTHut | but whoever coded this seems to be struggling with concepts such as "addition" |
| 11:00.35 | ZorbaTHut | remove the Mark of the Relentless and your defense rating goes up by one. welp |
| 11:00.41 | DWSR | rofl |
| 11:00.41 | ZorbaTHut | (also Black Heart is just really really good) |
| 11:00.50 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: I've noticed that. |
| 11:00.54 | DWSR | Hence why I want it. |
| 11:01.03 | DWSR | Amazing that EoG is still fucking in the top 10 |
| 11:01.16 | DWSR | ilvl200 blue LOLOLOL |
| 11:01.23 | ZorbaTHut | armor is really good, and stamina is really good, so take stamina and add armor and tada it's really really really good |
| 11:01.27 | DWSR | U GOT A BLU UR SO BAAD |
| 11:01.48 | ZorbaTHut | I was using EoG up until I got my hands on a Heart of Iron |
| 11:02.17 | DWSR | yeah. |
| 11:02.28 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: So, I'm not using TankDK until that shit's fixed. |
| 11:02.46 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, fair. it's kind of unfortunate because I really do strongly recommend using something sane with numbers |
| 11:02.56 | ZorbaTHut | hell in this case I'd probably end up fixing tankdk :P |
| 11:03.02 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Do please. |
| 11:03.12 | ZorbaTHut | find someone to pay my hourly rate, I'll get right on it |
| 11:03.22 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Free as in beer dood! :P |
| 11:03.35 | haste | hey Fisker |
| 11:03.57 | ZorbaTHut | uh-huh. find me an artist who'll make me stuff free as in beer :P |
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| 11:04.28 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: You should have seen how much higher the Crusader's Glory was on the weapon ranking than BQ'S or Rimefang's Claw |
| 11:04.50 | DWSR | Rawr had it listed in like the top 10. |
| 11:04.52 | ZorbaTHut | Crusader's Glory is a really good tanking weapon, largely thanks to the armor |
| 11:04.57 | ZorbaTHut | (it's actually what I'm currently using on my tank) |
| 11:04.59 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: If you're a warrior. |
| 11:05.05 | ZorbaTHut | warrior or paladin, yeah |
| 11:05.41 | ZorbaTHut | BQ'S is tricky to model properly, and it may be that they modeled it incorrectly. it's actually also pretty good, though . . . weird |
| 11:05.49 | DWSR | Meh. |
| 11:05.54 | DWSR | It's a poor weapon |
| 11:06.13 | DWSR | brb |
| 11:06.20 | ZorbaTHut | it's a poor weapon for everyone, with a truly amazing proc that isn't really up often enough to rely on |
| 11:06.42 | ZorbaTHut | in terms of average-case it's absolutely stunning, if you ignore the substandard threat |
| 11:06.51 | ZorbaTHut | in terms of burst it's kind of dubious |
| 11:08.14 | DWSR | It looks cool |
| 11:08.24 | DWSR | I kind of like the fact that it has its own glow. |
| 11:08.51 | zenzio | I'll dazzle the mobs with my weapon glow! |
| 11:09.19 | ZorbaTHut | guh I hate terrible theorycrafters |
| 11:09.27 | ZorbaTHut | regarding the def rating buff on quel'serrar: "It is probably pretty good for ICC, since Chill of the Throne makes you lose 20% dodge chance, and this would help get at least some of that dodge rating, and since it adds parry it will also compensate for some of that lost dodge." |
| 11:09.32 | ZorbaTHut | find the flaws! |
| 11:10.09 | DWSR | Ummm |
| 11:10.26 | DWSR | It is probably pretty good |
| 11:10.30 | DWSR | Pretty sure that's a flaw. |
| 11:10.32 | ZorbaTHut | (bonus question: does Chill of the Throne hurt DK tanks or druid tanks more?) |
| 11:10.42 | ZorbaTHut | dwsr, sure, but you haven't *proven* it yet |
| 11:11.07 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Druid tanks. DK tanks get extra parry from strength |
| 11:11.34 | DWSR | Not that I know much about druid tanking |
| 11:11.53 | ZorbaTHut | dwsr, do the math. why does it hurt druid tanks more? |
| 11:12.28 | Wobin | cause druids don't parry? |
| 11:12.50 | DWSR | Bears can parry. |
| 11:12.57 | DWSR | /troll |
| 11:13.12 | Wobin | we wear little metal booties on our paws |
| 11:13.18 | DWSR | lol |
| 11:13.23 | DWSR | I always wonder how I get parried by wolves. |
| 11:13.24 | Wobin | *clinkclinkclinkclinkyclinkclinkclinkclink* |
| 11:13.31 | Xyphoid | chill of the throne screws up your rune strikes though right? |
| 11:13.36 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: What math is there to do? |
| 11:14.13 | Wobin | well, we get RS through parry too... |
| 11:14.23 | DWSR | Xyphoid: Sort of. You can still RS from parries |
| 11:14.29 | zenzio | RS? |
| 11:14.32 | DWSR | Rune Strike |
| 11:14.36 | Xyphoid | well sure, but chill of the throne isn't just an avoidance reduction for DKs, it's also a threat hit |
| 11:14.47 | zenzio | ah... had an Anarchy Online flashback there, was wondering what runspeed had to do with this |
| 11:14.53 | ZorbaTHut | dwsr, the math that, if you actually calculate it out, shows that druids get off relatively fine from Chill of the Throne, and DKs get hurt the worst |
| 11:15.20 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Like I said I know >< that much about druid tanking. |
| 11:15.56 | Xyphoid | is that avoidance math only? |
| 11:16.55 | DWSR | Xyphoid: Yeah, I can't say that it isn't, but I haven't really had issues. |
| 11:16.58 | DWSR | Though, I wonder. |
| 11:17.04 | DWSR | How does RS work with DW? |
| 11:17.17 | DWSR | Is it on next MH swing, or either? |
| 11:17.34 | ZorbaTHut | xyphoid, yeah, it's pretty simple to work out. assume druids have 25% dodge and 15% block (yes yes they don't actually block but they have an equivalent), and DKs have 25 dodge 35 parry (i'm making these numbers up, but the real numbers show a similar thing) |
| 11:18.19 | Xyphoid | oh i believe you |
| 11:18.34 | ZorbaTHut | from there, you can easily show that Icecrown Radiance fucks over DKs quite a bit more |
| 11:19.19 | Xyphoid | 60 -> 40 avoidance is more of a hit than 40 -> 20 avoidance |
| 11:20.14 | ZorbaTHut | exactly :) |
| 11:20.36 | Xyphoid | which is intuitive if you imagine that dks had 99% dodge+parry and druids had 21% dodge |
| 11:20.45 | ZorbaTHut | the fact that it's "half of the avoidance" is irrelevant - the important part is what fraction of the nonavoidance it is. Most people get that backwards. |
| 11:22.31 | Xyphoid | i guess druids do have a radiance threat hit from Natural Reaction, it'd be interesting to compare it to the rune strike threat hit |
| 11:22.56 | Xyphoid | (he says reading the feral tree for the first time since illidan) |
| 11:23.59 | ZorbaTHut | I really hope we don't end up with Deepholm Radiance in 4.3 |
| 11:24.37 | Wobin | generally most bears don't have -too- much issue with rage starvation |
| 11:25.22 | ZorbaTHut | rage starvation isn't really a problem in modern raids for warriors, I assume it's similar for bears since the numbers are basically the same |
| 11:25.26 | bleeter | wut |
| 11:25.27 | bleeter | gah |
| 11:25.29 | ZorbaTHut | I mean if you're massively overgeared, sure |
| 11:25.47 | ZorbaTHut | but we're at the point now where warriors are dropping the major rage-conservation talents because they're just worthless |
| 11:26.10 | ZorbaTHut | every time the boss hits you, your rage maxes out. I really really hope Blizzard redesigns rage entirely in cataclysm, it is the second most broken part of warriors. |
| 11:26.21 | zenzio | rage starvation (now) is WoW's way of telling you you're overgeared |
| 11:26.58 | ZorbaTHut | rage starvation is wow's way of telling you you should have rolled a death knight |
| 11:27.06 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 11:27.11 | zenzio | then the game would suck |
| 11:27.14 | Xyphoid | rune management is the only resource management i enjoy at the mo |
| 11:27.16 | zenzio | because I dislike the DK ways |
| 11:27.27 | ZorbaTHut | it seriously does annoy me that DKs have no disadvantage from gearing up |
| 11:27.27 | DWSR | I like runes. |
| 11:27.51 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: You mean like rage starvation or running oom? |
| 11:27.58 | ZorbaTHut | dwsr, yeah |
| 11:28.07 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Guess you can thank the fact that we get boned from Sunwell Radiance. |
| 11:28.13 | Xyphoid | surely anytime you're rage starved you can put on dps gear |
| 11:28.17 | ZorbaTHut | true |
| 11:28.27 | ZorbaTHut | xyphoid, it's a tricky balance, but yeah |
| 11:28.33 | Wobin | any time you're rage starved |
| 11:28.35 | ZorbaTHut | it's also a balance that shouldn't exist |
| 11:28.35 | Wobin | you sit down =) |
| 11:28.43 | ZorbaTHut | you shouldn't ask the player to perform suboptimally in order to perform optimally |
| 11:28.51 | ZorbaTHut | it's a ridiculous mechanic |
| 11:28.59 | DWSR | Then it isn't suboptimal peformance, now is it? |
| 11:29.02 | Xyphoid | dps gear is just high threat tank gear |
| 11:29.57 | DWSR | If the DK tanking model is to be believed.\ |
| 11:30.21 | ZorbaTHut | or the druid tanking model |
| 11:31.02 | ZorbaTHut | really, wow gear is just broken right now |
| 11:31.08 | ZorbaTHut | but blizzard knows this, thus, 4.0 |
| 11:31.14 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Yep. |
| 11:31.26 | DWSR | Melee classes also get extra screwed atm. |
| 11:31.33 | DWSR | With the addition of ArP, expertise, etc. |
| 11:31.41 | ZorbaTHut | everyone gets extra screwed in all sorts of wacky ways |
| 11:31.48 | ZorbaTHut | cloth wearers get screwed because everyone wants their gear |
| 11:31.51 | DWSR | I mean, with a DPS caster, it's like, hit till capped, spell power, crit/haste. Win |
| 11:32.00 | ZorbaTHut | warriors get screwed because their gear is terribly itemized and even leather is better sometimes |
| 11:32.33 | ZorbaTHut | mail dps gets screwed because their gear has six stats and only four of them are vaguely useful |
| 11:32.55 | ZorbaTHut | everyone gets screwed because gear gets far too good far too quickly, causing idiocy like Icecrown Radiance |
| 11:33.24 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Sunwell Radiance the second isn't really idiocy. |
| 11:33.33 | DWSR | It's a good idea. |
| 11:33.34 | ZorbaTHut | it's *more* idiocy |
| 11:33.41 | ZorbaTHut | they knew it was a problem and they still trooped headlong into it |
| 11:33.41 | DWSR | There we go |
| 11:33.53 | ZorbaTHut | it was a good idea, but it was a good idea only because they botched things to such an extent that it was a good idea |
| 11:34.11 | DWSR | honestly. |
| 11:34.24 | DWSR | I fucking hate raid leaders that give leather wearers cloth drops over clothies. |
| 11:34.26 | DWSR | What the fuck, man? |
| 11:34.43 | ZorbaTHut | though the 4.0 solution for this is *fascinating* and I cannot wait to see the conniptions that it gives to theorycrafters |
| 11:36.53 | bleeter | Wobin: NOOOO |
| 11:38.34 | DWSR | For parry, does each parry reduce your swing timer again (i.e. can you approach 0 time between swings)? |
| 11:39.39 | ZorbaTHut | I think there's some cutoff where it doesn't |
| 11:39.43 | ZorbaTHut | other good changes in 4.0: removing parry haste |
| 11:39.59 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: For players or mobs |
| 11:40.10 | DWSR | Because there aren't many raid bosses that parry-haste |
| 11:40.14 | Arrowmaster | is the dodge penalty going away too? |
| 11:40.14 | ZorbaTHut | I believe the official word is "we are removing parry haste" |
| 11:40.16 | ZorbaTHut | "it is gone" |
| 11:40.21 | DWSR | ah |
| 11:40.26 | ZorbaTHut | arrow, dodge penalty? |
| 11:40.39 | Arrowmaster | every time you dodge your swing timer is increased |
| 11:40.48 | ZorbaTHut | oh, hadn't heard about that one |
| 11:40.53 | Arrowmaster | you hadnt? |
| 11:41.24 | Wobin | bleeter, ? |
| 11:41.32 | bleeter | NOOO |
| 11:41.45 | Arrowmaster | level a warrior or pally using the slowest 2hander possible |
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| 11:42.08 | Arrowmaster | you will learn of the dodge penalty very quickly |
| 11:42.11 | ZorbaTHut | I can't find a reference for this, is there a page on it? |
| 11:42.12 | DWSR | What's the slowest swing timer? 4s? |
| 11:42.21 | Arrowmaster | yeah |
| 11:43.29 | DWSR | ChanServ [ChanServ@services.] has set mode +v Esamynn|Away <-- hurray for hostnames that break the RFC |
| 11:43.43 | Arrowmaster | no it doesnt |
| 11:45.03 | DWSR | anyway nn |
| 11:45.04 | Arrowmaster | ZorbaTHut: i dont see i mention of it on wowwiki but i know it exists unless it was removed sometime in 3.x |
| 11:45.26 | theorbtwo | DWSR: You can put a trailing dot at the end of any fully-qualified hostname -- it just means that it is fully qualified. |
| 11:45.34 | theorbtwo | Now, that doesn't *resolve*, but that's a different question. |
| 11:46.02 | ZorbaTHut | arrow, I'm not convinced, honestly, I haven't found any references on it anywhere |
| 11:46.19 | ZorbaTHut | side note, I wish there were a way to filter all the railworks specials out of steam |
| 11:46.52 | Arrowmaster | ZorbaTHut: level a horde warrior/pally with a slow 2hander and try to fight those slithid in the barrens at an appropriate level |
| 11:47.05 | Arrowmaster | the ones that spawn all the little annoying shits that attack you for 1 dmg |
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| 11:48.07 | Arrowmaster | ZorbaTHut: check some of the swing timer bar addons, like the ace2 version of quartz had code for dodge increasing the swing timer |
| 11:48.20 | ZorbaTHut | huh, curious |
| 11:49.16 | Arrowmaster | its like a +0.5x of the weapon swing time i think, while parry is -0.75x the weapon swing time |
| 11:53.17 | *** join/#wowuidev boshi23 (~chris@c-68-36-37-83.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 11:58.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen (~Sixen@173-25-23-10.client.mchsi.com) |
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| 12:09.26 | *** join/#wowuidev mascondante (~kvirc@99-196-36-207.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 12:10.15 | bleeter | OMG IT'S SIXEN! HAWT! |
| 12:10.19 | bleeter | Sixen: ohai :) |
| 12:11.46 | Fisker | slaps bleeter around a bit with a large trout |
| 12:12.08 | Fisker | you just got slapd |
| 12:12.25 | bleeter | slaps Fisker around with his massive dong |
| 12:13.03 | Fisker | sweet |
| 12:13.04 | Fisker | moar |
| 12:13.46 | bleeter | MOAR DONG FOR FISKER http://bit.ly/bmJ9sA |
| 12:16.19 | Fisker | i do not like what i'm seeing bleeter |
| 12:16.21 | Fisker | infact i hate you |
| 12:16.42 | bleeter | 200 dong is a lot of dong for Fisker |
| 12:16.46 | bleeter | too much dong? :( |
| 12:19.05 | Fisker | hate has been given |
| 12:19.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Teomyr_ (~teo@HSI-KBW-085-216-123-189.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 12:22.32 | Fisker | hey Teomyr |
| 12:22.35 | Fisker | hate bleeter with me |
| 12:22.47 | Teomyr | fisker |
| 12:22.48 | Teomyr | i hate you |
| 12:23.04 | Fisker | hate bleeter instead |
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| 12:29.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (~Lopeppepp@141.222.29.18) |
| 12:29.09 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 12:30.50 | Fisker | Teomyr |
| 12:31.00 | Fisker | i need you to buy me a i7-980x |
| 12:31.34 | haste | and me! |
| 12:31.45 | haste | and Fisker needs to give me his |
| 12:35.22 | Fisker | dual i7-9x80 in an evga board with 2xATi 5970(or 5990 when it's out)? |
| 12:35.31 | *** join/#wowuidev adimit (~adimit@wagner.sfs.uni-tuebingen.de) |
| 12:35.51 | Fisker | better make an adapter for dual psus then oooooooooooooooooooh snap |
| 12:36.59 | Fisker | If i had the money i'd probably try to make a board like that, 2xi7-980x, 2x5990, 96GB Ram and a raid array of SSDs |
| 12:37.00 | Fisker | :3 |
| 12:37.47 | Fisker | i wonder how much that would mess up games |
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| 12:48.56 | haste | 96G memory is overkill! |
| 12:49.11 | haste | even 64G would last a 6 years fine |
| 12:49.25 | Kalroth | I want 128G |
| 12:52.18 | haste | what kind of mandelbroth will you be rendering?! |
| 12:52.53 | amro | mandelbroth is brewed |
| 12:53.07 | *** join/#wowuidev xilcoy (~xilcoy@61-217-144-200.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 12:54.09 | bleeter | Kalroth: screw 128G, go 512G RAM with 4TB SSD. Will prolly be standard in about 4 years time ;) |
| 12:54.21 | zenzio | "Please Note: iTunes is aware that Sales and Trend Reports generation for MAR/15/2010, ... Region is delayed." - seriously, it has been delayed almost every day for the last week, and frequently before... either push back the expected completion time or fix your shit |
| 12:54.58 | Cide | and why do you care about sales and trends? |
| 12:55.21 | zenzio | our clients like to get their download counts |
| 12:55.33 | Cide | your clients are bad |
| 12:55.37 | Cide | just give them a penny |
| 12:55.45 | zenzio | good idea |
| 12:55.55 | Cide | as always |
| 12:56.06 | zenzio | truth |
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| 12:57.32 | bleeter | and give me 4 pennies for every 1 you give the sucker |
| 12:57.33 | bleeter | er |
| 12:57.35 | bleeter | s/sucker/client/ |
| 12:57.52 | zenzio | it's okay, those are synonyms |
| 12:57.56 | bleeter | Cide: I'll split the 4 50/50 with you, long as you keep quiet |
| 12:58.16 | bleeter | zenzio: hard to tell sometimes with english dialects |
| 12:58.33 | bleeter | sometimes client is synonym for sucker, other times it's just plain old fuckhead |
| 12:59.04 | zenzio | isn't that just another synonym? |
| 13:04.06 | bleeter | one's a gullable fool, the other's just a fool |
| 13:04.10 | bleeter | subtle difference, I'd say |
| 13:12.29 | Lopeppeppy | Great, they broke my server again. "Network path not found" |
| 13:12.44 | zenzio | :-o |
| 13:16.34 | zenzio | "oh yes, we upgraded your server to IIS. Did we forget to mention this?" |
| 13:23.52 | Lopeppeppy | Actually, last time they broke something they had assigned a server a static IP and were confused that the scripts calling on that server suddenly couldn't find the server anymore. Took them hours to figure that out. |
| 13:29.39 | zenzio | I'm so glad IRC clients spew their build numbers and compilation timestamps in quit messages. I could never sleep at night without this knowledge! |
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| 13:30.18 | bleeter | zenzio: epeen |
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| 13:30.54 | zenzio | yeah, it's just that everyone besides the developer don't give a damn |
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| 13:33.56 | olafski | quit messages that take up more than a full line on a 1920 pixels wide display should not be used |
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| 13:39.01 | Kalroth | <olafski> quit messages should not be used <- fixed it for you |
| 13:39.18 | olafski | that too |
| 13:39.32 | olafski | dang my client has a quit message set up :( |
| 13:39.43 | olafski | 7 characters though, I'll accept this |
| 13:40.01 | olafski | I thought generally quit messages were supposed to convey the reason for quitting |
| 13:40.14 | olafski | e.g. "ping timeout" "changing host" "going to bed" etc, not some random quote :P |
| 13:40.15 | zenzio | 15-20 years ago, yes |
| 13:40.26 | Wobin | according to mascondante, it's cause of insomnia |
| 13:40.28 | zenzio | since then people became "clever" |
| 13:40.50 | olafski | guess I can hide them in irssi somehow |
| 13:41.09 | olafski | or truncate =) |
| 13:44.05 | Lopeppeppy | Oh, hell... two entire servers are dead in the water. My work life just got mega-interesting! |
| 13:44.34 | zenzio | dead as in really dead, not just temporarily down? |
| 13:45.12 | zenzio | "Peppy: Good thing we have backups" "Boss: ... yeah, about that..." |
| 13:45.41 | Lopeppeppy | Dead as in we're holding a funeral for the hardware, which died sometime around 9am this morning. And looking at our backups from last Thursday to get us operational again on two emergency not-quite-up-to-spec boxes. |
| 13:46.14 | zenzio | fun times |
| 13:46.19 | zenzio | huggles Lopeppeppy |
| 13:47.08 | Lopeppeppy | Thankfully, I only have to support the crying sheeple in the meantime... someone else is sweating down over the physical servers. Poor guys. |
| 13:50.22 | theorbtwo | Lopeppeppy: Are you typing one-handed, BTW? |
| 13:53.33 | Lopeppeppy | I'm back to a gimpy 1 1/3 handed typing. Pretty much where I was before surgery. My right does 2/3 of the work, the left hits a very few keys I can't stretch my right all the way over to. |
| 13:54.12 | Fisker | anyone know if someone made an addon that can do addoncomm spam? :P |
| 13:55.54 | Grum | Fisker: yes god will know |
| 13:56.06 | theorbtwo | Lopeppeppy: Aha, not that bad then. |
| 13:56.25 | Fisker | How do you know a god exists to know? |
| 13:56.53 | Grum | How do you know he doesnt! and god told me he exists, its in a book i saw on the internet |
| 13:57.05 | Fisker | not a valid argument |
| 13:57.25 | Grum | Fisker: did you read it on the internet? if so, its valid! |
| 13:58.11 | Lopeppeppy | Well theorbtwo, it's not good either! :P |
| 13:59.21 | Lopeppeppy | My Grand Boss's response to the fried server, overheard in the hallway, "Can't we just take it back to Best Buy, or wherever we bought it?" |
| 14:00.01 | zenzio | hah |
| 14:00.09 | zenzio | do you have any idea why they died? |
| 14:00.48 | Lopeppeppy | Right now, it's just "hardware failure". I don't care why, until it's running on another box. Then we can get all CSI about why. :) |
| 14:01.14 | zenzio | I'm just itching for the "someone stopped the fans" or whatever |
| 14:01.57 | Fisker | will you make a visual basic gui to track the killers ip? |
| 14:02.18 | Grum | make sure you have at least 1 group above 255 else it cant be a real ip |
| 14:02.22 | zenzio | of course not Fisker, don't be stupid |
| 14:02.28 | zenzio | the killer's IP is still in the cables |
| 14:02.48 | zenzio | they just have to examine it in an electron microscope and cross-reference it with CODIS |
| 14:02.51 | Grum | dude, it bounces in the able, they only have to put a tracer signal in, shake the wire, and it falls right out |
| 14:02.57 | Fisker | heard of this new untraceable site that can't be shut down? |
| 14:03.30 | Grum | it was your mom Fisker? |
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| 14:04.18 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 14:06.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (~Lunessa@WoWUIDev/Lunessa) |
| 14:06.41 | Lunessa | station |
| 14:08.54 | Cairenn | morning Lunessa |
| 14:09.08 | adimit | Why does oUF not have an experience module? |
| 14:10.49 | zenzio | I can't speak for their reasoning, but I don't consider experience to be a part of unit frames |
| 14:10.58 | Lunessa | ^^ |
| 14:11.13 | adimit | zenzio: right. Sensible, should've thought about that... :-P |
| 14:11.31 | adimit | Oh well, it's not like it's difficult to write something up. :-) |
| 14:11.40 | zenzio | :) |
| 14:12.42 | Lunessa | This is why haste's code comments amuse me: "Dungeon Guide my ass. " |
| 14:13.06 | *** join/#wowuidev stupiddigmouse (~chatzilla@111.193.205.188) |
| 14:13.17 | zenzio | heh |
| 14:13.32 | adimit | Yeah, that's a misnomer if I've ever seen one. |
| 14:21.44 | alestane | Well, I just found out why I can't connect to Sprint ShortMail anymore. |
| 14:22.48 | zenzio | do tell |
| 14:22.58 | alestane | They decommissioned it this weekend. |
| 14:23.11 | Fisker | do i need to declare a variable in LUA before i can use it in a for-loop? |
| 14:23.38 | zenzio | use it how? |
| 14:24.16 | Lunessa | alestane: So, they didn't notify you ahead of time? Seems like crappy service. |
| 14:24.27 | alestane | The variable names raight after the for are actually treated as new local declarations for the life of the loop and will shadow any other variables of the same name. |
| 14:24.39 | Fisker | you know like in C# where you can just say something like for (int i = x, i <= y, i++) |
| 14:24.57 | alestane | Every Lua for loop is like that, Fisker. |
| 14:25.00 | Fisker | k |
| 14:25.41 | alestane | lua> local i = "string" for i=1.10 do print (i) end print (i) |
| 14:25.42 | lua_bot | alestane: luabot:1: ',' expected near 'do' |
| 14:25.50 | alestane | lua> local i = "string" for i=1,10 do print (i) end print (i) |
| 14:25.51 | lua_bot | alestane: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, string |
| 14:27.24 | alestane | Lunessa: It's a band-aid service for phones without SMS capability, and I don't think they've sold any phones like that for at least 4 years. |
| 14:27.40 | Lunessa | alestane: Gotcha. |
| 14:27.49 | *** join/#wowuidev chrippa (~chrippa@kaxigakassar.se) |
| 14:28.20 | alestane | So while it would have been nice to be notified, the truth is from a commercial standpoint that I've been texting on borrowed tech for at least a year. |
| 14:30.13 | zenzio | http://icanhascheezburger.com/2010/03/16/funny-pictures-worf-gettin-wet/ |
| 14:30.46 | alestane | Couple o' you gonna grease my chin... |
| 14:31.23 | Fisker | i hate you zenzio |
| 14:31.38 | Fisker | What's worf got to do with ducks?! |
| 14:31.46 | Fisker | took me like a minute to figure out |
| 14:33.21 | Fisker | does addon comm prefixes have a fixed length or does it just cut into the msg budget? |
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| 14:36.07 | olafski | lunessa: I regularly have to act as guide in dungeons =) |
| 14:36.14 | olafski | low level dungeons mostly |
| 14:37.05 | Lunessa | olafski: I've discovered that checking the "leader" option in LFD gives me access to group that contain a higher percentage of people 'not playing at the same level' as myself. |
| 14:37.43 | zenzio | in a good or a bad way? |
| 14:37.49 | olafski | yeah perhaps I should uncheck it too |
| 14:37.59 | olafski | though at times, when the other people are willing, it's nice to be a guide imo |
| 14:38.06 | olafski | had a fun group in gnomeregan the other day |
| 14:38.30 | olafski | shame that the low level dungeons are even easier than heroics at the moment.. I remember gnomeregan being quite difficult |
| 14:38.51 | Lunessa | Usually it means I'm grouping with people who aren't as geared or who may not have done the place much. *shrug* Anything that shortens my incredible wait time as a DPS class is ok with me. |
| 14:39.12 | olafski | yeah I guess ticking dungeon guide at least means you accept the latter |
| 14:39.22 | olafski | and I guess with "not having done the place much", the former also comes |
| 14:39.25 | Lunessa | olafski: they're supposed to be easier than heroics. seriously. |
| 14:39.57 | olafski | I meant heroics with the current gear levels |
| 14:40.08 | olafski | in leveling gear the dungeons should be not-too-hard |
| 14:40.15 | olafski | not "keep pulling cmon I never lose mana" |
| 14:40.30 | olafski | they were fine in vanilla imo :P |
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| 14:42.51 | Fisker | i might just have made the best addon ever |
| 14:43.56 | Fisker | but i didn't :( |
| 14:45.14 | *** join/#wowuidev mascondante (~kvirc@99-196-36-207.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 14:46.59 | Fisker | it work |
| 14:47.00 | Fisker | s |
| 14:48.30 | alestane | "Let's see...I *might* have brought my arrowhead collection...I didn't, so I'm not going to look for it. I'm going to look for things I *did* bring on board; which would seem to increase the likelihood of my finding something...wouldn't you say." |
| 14:49.09 | Cairenn | o.O |
| 14:49.28 | alestane | George Carlin on the airline safety lecture. |
| 14:49.32 | Cairenn | ah |
| 14:49.54 | alestane | "they tell you to check around your for any personal belongings you may have brought on board." |
| 14:50.14 | Cairenn | yeah |
| 14:50.21 | Cairenn | just didn't recall right then |
| 14:52.48 | Lunessa | alestane: Have your bags been with you at all times? |
| 14:53.39 | Cairenn | did you pack them yourself?! |
| 14:54.23 | Lunessa | Has any person unknown to you given you anything? |
| 14:54.27 | alestane | I don't know if Carlin ever bothered to update his airline roast for TSA before he died. |
| 14:58.21 | alestane | Okay, I have discerned the failure in my code. |
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| 15:30.19 | Lunessa | http://clientsfromhell.tumblr.com/post/449895377/not-exactly-a-client-story-but-a-job-applicant |
| 15:32.06 | alestane | I saw that. |
| 15:32.19 | alestane | At least some of my students do better than that. |
| 15:34.48 | Lunessa | I can only imagine being the interviewer looking at that portfolio. |
| 15:35.51 | Lopeppeppy | Sometimes you laugh, sometimes you cry. |
| 15:35.56 | Lopeppeppy | It's like the People of Walmart. |
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| 16:23.58 | alestane | Does the message "Unable to disassemble dumynode_" mean anything to anyone? |
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| 16:36.27 | Lopeppeppy | Um. Do not disassemble Johnny 5? |
| 16:37.32 | eidolarr | alestane: context? |
| 16:38.03 | alestane | Random crash that's dropping up in an OS API after the program has been running for about ten seconds. |
| 16:38.10 | alestane | cropping* up |
| 16:38.26 | eidolarr | what OS? |
| 16:38.35 | alestane | I think the message is actually a debugger warning, not the crash itself, which is an EXC_BAD_ACCESS symbol. |
| 16:38.41 | alestane | OS X 10.6 |
| 16:39.09 | eidolarr | it sounds like maybe the symbols aren't being loaded properly? |
| 16:39.25 | eidolarr | do you know whether it was an unmapped read or an illegal read? |
| 16:39.53 | alestane | It happens about twenty layers of OS chain calls deep, all I can get is assembly. |
| 16:40.58 | alestane | However, I also found a member variable I added to my class and neglected to add to the constructor, so that may have something to do with it. |
| 16:41.28 | eidolarr | is this C++? |
| 16:41.52 | eidolarr | gcc didn't warn you or anything? |
| 16:43.07 | alestane | I have a warning from my last build about an unused variable in a different function. |
| 16:43.30 | eidolarr | that's a terribly cryptic way to break for what must be a common error |
| 16:43.44 | Lunessa | http://scitech.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/16/the-5-cheesiest-tech-slogans/ |
| 16:44.19 | alestane | Also, I find that I can control whether the crash happens through making or skipping a call that seems like it should be entirely unrelated. |
| 16:45.23 | eidolarr | i kinda like "don't be evil" |
| 16:45.30 | Lopeppeppy | It's related, or it wouldn't effect the crash, dear. |
| 16:45.43 | Lopeppeppy | Bohr! |
| 16:45.52 | alestane | I would dispute the claim that profit and goodness are exclusive motives. |
| 16:45.57 | eidolarr | that's not true |
| 16:46.02 | alestane | Or at least wholly exclusive. |
| 16:46.10 | eidolarr | lots of times code breaks just because an unrelated change happens to move shit aroudn in memory |
| 16:46.42 | eidolarr | alestane: yeah but google hopes to be true neutral not neutral good |
| 16:46.56 | eidolarr | so it doesn't even matter! |
| 16:47.40 | alestane | Moreover, I don't agree that everyone acting in their own self-interest leads to a better society for all, unless everyone is truly taking the long view, which people and companies, particularly public companies, are notoriously bad at. |
| 16:47.47 | alestane | And I mean EVERYONE. |
| 16:48.31 | Lunessa | eidolarr: It's a nice slogan for human behavior - but Google has fallen far short of that ideal as a corporate citizen. Also, a negative goal is a terrible goal to try and achieve. You can do "don't be evil" by doing nothing. |
| 16:49.51 | alestane | I'd ask how Google has failed to not be evil, but I'm not sure I want to get you started. |
| 16:49.57 | Lunessa | alestane: Which is why I like Heinlien's assertion that people should follow their "enlightened self-interest." |
| 16:50.01 | eidolarr | i think google's done a pretty good job of it |
| 16:50.31 | alestane | It's a great principle when enlightenment is in abundant supply. |
| 16:50.48 | eidolarr | i'm not sure a slogan qualifies as a goal, more like a guiding principle |
| 16:52.57 | alestane | The concept of rational anarchy is a great one, but it's predicated on the "rational" part. |
| 16:53.21 | Lunessa | Still, "don't be evil" is still a negative goal. Credo it may be, but think it's not a very believable or workable model. |
| 16:53.33 | alestane | I'll grant that. |
| 16:53.39 | Lunessa | alestane: Yes, I concur - the hard part is rationality. |
| 16:54.11 | eidolarr | again, i don't see why a slogan has to be a goal or a model |
| 16:55.19 | Lunessa | Then your slogan is hypocrisy. A slogan should be the embodiment of your ideals and efforts. |
| 16:56.10 | eidolarr | that's quite a stretch |
| 16:56.20 | Lunessa | Not at all. |
| 16:56.35 | alestane | I think what he's saying is, "Why market your company on something that doesn't actually drive it?" |
| 16:56.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen1 (~Sixen@173-25-23-10.client.mchsi.com) |
| 16:56.50 | Lunessa | Your slogan is how you communicate to others what you're all about. |
| 16:57.09 | eidolarr | sometimes |
| 16:57.15 | eidolarr | other times it's a catchphrase |
| 16:57.21 | alestane | The term "slogan" implies something mostly for public consumption, rather than a mission or a goal, that's true. |
| 16:57.46 | alestane | But precisely because it is aimed at the public, it shouldn't badly represent you. |
| 16:58.42 | eidolarr | mcdonald's slogan is "i'm lovin it," budweiser's is "true", intel's is "intel inside" |
| 16:59.10 | alestane | "You've got questions. We've got answers." is a slogan. "Demystifying technology for the mass market" is a mission. Those two happen to be reasonably consonant, but they have different foci. |
| 16:59.11 | Lunessa | Those are ad campaigns. |
| 16:59.15 | *** join/#wowuidev adimit (~adimit@g228090111.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:59.25 | eidolarr | nike is "just do it" |
| 16:59.57 | alestane | I think what eidolarr is pointing out is that none of those really mean anything. They're branding without any kind of content. |
| 17:00.00 | eidolarr | slogans and advertisement are closely related |
| 17:00.38 | alestane | And the main reason those work for them is because they're already market leaders. |
| 17:00.53 | eidolarr | unlike google? |
| 17:01.04 | alestane | They're highly visible and so their ad copy develops a strong association by virtue of repetition. |
| 17:01.51 | alestane | I think Lunessa's main object is that "Don't be evil" purports to have more content than most of those messages, and treating it as vacuous branding dilutes the concept and the company. |
| 17:03.37 | eidolarr | my point is, slogans can be anything, chastising google for its slogan not being a strict mission statement is unfair |
| 17:03.39 | Lunessa | correct. |
| 17:03.55 | eidolarr | "don't be evil" lets you know that it's very important to them to try to, well, not be evil |
| 17:04.06 | Lopeppeppy | I want my servers back. *cries* |
| 17:04.18 | alestane | What took them away? |
| 17:04.25 | eidolarr | tuesday blues |
| 17:04.30 | Lunessa | alestane: correct. eidolarr Then they should make that their slogan and weight it with that load. |
| 17:04.53 | eidolarr | lol |
| 17:05.08 | Lopeppeppy | alestane, Schroedinger visited the server room and killed them dead. Multiple hardware failure on multiple machines. |
| 17:05.33 | alestane | So the cosmic rays done it. |
| 17:05.56 | alestane | Building redundant systems mostly seems to guarantee that everything will fail at once. |
| 17:06.21 | alestane | St. Vidicon preserve us. |
| 17:06.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan (~pancake@cpe-174-098-002-214.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 17:06.41 | Lopeppeppy | It's not redundant systems. Read and author servers both use the same database server. Database server and authoring server died. |
| 17:07.01 | alestane | (We'll see if anyone catches that reference.) |
| 17:07.53 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 17:08.00 | alestane | Likely data loss? |
| 17:08.06 | Lunessa | alestane: I chuckled. |
| 17:08.24 | alestane | I figured if anyone else here had read Stasheff, you would have. |
| 17:08.35 | Lopeppeppy | Oh, I dunno. We'll find out when the bastiches work again, what they remember about life, the universe and everything. |
| 17:08.39 | Lunessa | alestane: About 12 books worth. |
| 17:08.41 | Lopeppeppy | Last backup is last Thursday. |
| 17:09.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (~chatzilla@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 17:09.21 | alestane | I eventually got rid of my copies...except for the first one, which I still love. |
| 17:09.36 | alestane | I got older and realized how repetitive it was. |
| 17:15.04 | Lunessa | alestane: Yeah, they were fun in jr. high. Like Xanth novels. |
| 17:15.20 | alestane | Which I also devoured over ten books worth of. |
| 17:15.25 | Lunessa | Me too. |
| 17:15.37 | Lunessa | Read any Jack Chalker? |
| 17:15.58 | alestane | He wrote the changewinds trilogy? |
| 17:16.02 | Lunessa | Yes. |
| 17:16.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Cidwel (~58019a2b@gateway/web/freenode/x-tmuffifzjucqvocl) |
| 17:16.07 | Cidwel | hurr durr |
| 17:16.10 | alestane | I didn't like those so much. |
| 17:16.58 | Lunessa | Well of Souls, Flux and Anchor - read a lot of them while in the hospital during my months long fight with mono and flu. got old really, really fast. |
| 17:17.15 | alestane | There's a few authors I won't dis on but didn't personally enjoy. Chalker is one, Alan Dean Foster is another. |
| 17:17.30 | alestane | Oh, and L. E. Modesitt. |
| 17:18.17 | alestane | And I'm likely to make a few enemies with this one, but Raymond Feist. |
| 17:18.39 | Lunessa | I tend to consume all of an author's work. So I see when they're stuck on a theme. |
| 17:19.00 | Lunessa | I didn't like Feist's long story arcs, but his books weren't bad. |
| 17:19.24 | alestane | They're all competent authors. But most of them I get sick of. |
| 17:19.33 | alestane | Sara Douglass, too. |
| 17:19.41 | Lunessa | I really like Glen Cook |
| 17:19.50 | alestane | A friend of mine loves him. |
| 17:20.03 | alestane | I only read two or three of his books; I remember them being okay. |
| 17:20.38 | *** part/#wowuidev Kaso (~Kaso@studio.fuzemedia.co.uk) |
| 17:20.42 | Lunessa | And David Brin - re-reading some of his work now. |
| 17:20.49 | alestane | Brin is awesome. |
| 17:21.03 | alestane | I especially liked Earth and Glory Season. |
| 17:21.13 | Lunessa | reading Infinity's Shore right now. |
| 17:21.30 | alestane | I think that was my favorite from the second trilogy. |
| 17:21.48 | alestane | I just started into my second read through Michelle West's Sea of Sorrows. |
| 17:22.17 | Lunessa | I read it when it came out, but re-reading it now is a lot of joy since most of the story seems to have faded from memory. |
| 17:22.58 | alestane | Tad Williams, Kate Elliot, C.S. Friedman, Sean Russell and Melanie Rawn also make my greats list. |
| 17:23.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (~dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 17:23.27 | Lunessa | I'm with you except for Tad Williams. Not to my taste. |
| 17:24.28 | alestane | I wasn't quite as fond of Memory, Sorrow and Thorn, but he has a single novel, War of the Flowers, that really knocked me over. |
| 17:24.43 | alestane | Otherland needs a second read but it's VERY long and complex. |
| 17:25.10 | Lunessa | George R.R. Martin is another guilty pleasure. |
| 17:25.22 | alestane | And I haven't gotten to his other opus, Shadowmarch or whatever it was called. |
| 17:25.26 | alestane | Martin is excellent. |
| 17:25.41 | alestane | Martin is sort of what I wish Robert Jordan could have been. |
| 17:26.18 | Lunessa | Met him at NOLA con in 92, long elevator ride. We talked about superhero RPGs. |
| 17:26.25 | Lopeppeppy | Jordan produced friggin' books, at least. |
| 17:26.43 | Lopeppeppy | Although Martin's are superior, i sort of want to see them actually come out sometimes, you know? |
| 17:26.46 | alestane | Still can't wait to find out what happened to Anya or whatever her name was, he left her in a horrible cliffhanger. |
| 17:27.18 | Lopeppeppy | Arya. |
| 17:27.26 | alestane | He is slow, Lopeppeppy, I'll cede that. |
| 17:27.48 | Lunessa | Big books take big writing, and when you have to switch projects to fulfill contract obligations, it's hard to do big writing. :/ |
| 17:27.53 | alestane | Yes, Arya Stark. The last words he wrote about her were "When she woke up, she was blind." |
| 17:28.45 | Lunessa | Any one of the story-lines in that series could be an excellent novel on it's own merits. |
| 17:28.45 | alestane | WTGdFingFicktyH? |
| 17:28.47 | Shadowed | Last I heard, it was more writers block than time Lunessa |
| 17:29.53 | Shadowed | Sanderson's good too if you want something a bit more unique in fantasy |
| 17:30.02 | alestane | But yes, Lunessa. If you haven't already, give War of the Flowers a shot. It's far less commitment than most of William's work and I found it captivating. |
| 17:30.26 | Lunessa | Sanderson? |
| 17:30.42 | Lunessa | And for those interested: http://grrm.livejournal.com/ |
| 17:30.43 | Shadowed | He's the one who's continuing WoT, he did Mistborn and Warbreaker |
| 17:30.45 | alestane | Tad Williams. Just the only thing he's managed to write in one volume. |
| 17:30.50 | Shadowed | elitist armory |
| 17:31.01 | Shadowed | bah |
| 17:31.05 | Shadowed | http://www.brandonsanderson.com/ that |
| 17:31.06 | alestane | Oh, I was answering the wrong question. |
| 17:31.41 | alestane | Lunessa: That first entry sounds like every time I manage to get sick in the winter. |
| 17:31.49 | Shadowed | I can't even load the stupid page :( |
| 17:32.30 | Lunessa | alestane: Me too. though dental surgery aside, I made it through most of this winter without getting really ill. :) |
| 17:33.05 | Lunessa | Shadowed: Try http://www.georgerrmartin.com/ instead |
| 17:33.23 | Shadowed | Yea it loaded finaly, just took 2 minutes |
| 17:33.59 | alestane | I was sort of soured on the whole "finishing another author's work" thing by Drum into Silence. |
| 17:34.22 | Lunessa | I wasn't into WoTime books, so *shrug* |
| 17:35.00 | alestane | I was for a while, but then he produced something like three books in a row where NOTHING REALLY HAPPENED. |
| 17:35.12 | Shadowed | I never got into WoT either, but apparently Sanderson has done amazing things to it |
| 17:35.24 | alestane | I'll probably go back and read it once it's done, just for closure. |
| 17:35.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Thaoky (Thaoky@91.181.164.80) |
| 17:35.49 | Lunessa | The mark of a great story is you don't want it to end. The mark of a terrible story is you can't wait for it to end. |
| 17:36.04 | Shadowed | See I've never had that for any books |
| 17:36.07 | Shadowed | I just want it to end well :P |
| 17:36.25 | Shadowed | eg, not how Sword of Truth ended |
| 17:37.06 | nevcairiel | I hated that sword of truth ended, it could've gone on for 11 more books :P |
| 17:37.21 | Shadowed | ~lart nevcairiel |
| 17:37.21 | purl | throws a AN/M-8 smoke grenade at nevcairiel |
| 17:37.22 | alestane | It was already something like 12 books long! |
| 17:37.27 | Lunessa | I've plowed my way through some novels that were just terrible because I wanted to be fair and try to love them as much as they were loved by the recommending friend. But once I start hating the characters, or the writing, or pretty much anything about the novel... it's dead to me. |
| 17:37.45 | nevcairiel | Shadowed: but the end wasnt that bad |
| 17:37.50 | Shadowed | Yes it was :P |
| 17:37.52 | Lunessa | Sword of Truth is a prime example. HATED. EVERY. BIT. of the first novel. |
| 17:38.09 | Shadowed | The ending basically was "AND THEN RICHARD FINDS THE ANSWER TO EVERYTHING IN 5 PAGES AND THE WORLD IS ALL GOOD" |
| 17:38.13 | Shadowed | <the end> |
| 17:38.23 | Adys | http://garfieldminusgarfield.net/post/452238059 |
| 17:38.24 | mikma | hahaha |
| 17:38.34 | mikma | go go richard |
| 17:38.38 | Shadowed | Every book has that to a certain extent, but Sword of Truth relied way too much on that |
| 17:38.40 | alestane | Oddly enough, I've found that I can fear a character without losing interest. Quinn Dexter and Hugh of Austra are phenomenal vilains. |
| 17:38.44 | alestane | villains* |
| 17:38.46 | Shadowed | He did that in a lot of the previous books too |
| 17:39.09 | alestane | That's usually called deus ex machina, Shadowed. |
| 17:39.11 | nevcairiel | Eh, it wasnt that bad, imho |
| 17:39.35 | alestane | The appropriate solution is to foreshadow the solutions in some way through the story leading up to it. |
| 17:39.39 | Shadowed | yea |
| 17:39.50 | Lunessa | I can enjoy the sort of rush at the end of a large novel as events collapse into the singularity of the ending. But not if I'm going to feel cheated. |
| 17:39.55 | Shadowed | The ending just felt too much like it relied on "magical luck insight at the right moment" |
| 17:40.07 | Shadowed | It works for House cause it's a TV show, not so well for a book :P |
| 17:40.12 | Lopeppeppy | I sort of liked the first book of the Sword of Truth series, the rest were absolute garbage. |
| 17:40.38 | Shadowed | Everyone I've talked to says the first 2-3 were good, then they got progressively worst. Except my mom, she liked them all |
| 17:40.41 | Shadowed | but what does she know! |
| 17:40.43 | Shadowed | poofs for class |
| 17:40.48 | nevcairiel | i liked them all! |
| 17:41.11 | Shadowed | you're crazy |
| 17:41.12 | Shadowed | sorry! |
| 17:41.16 | alestane | Right, Lunessa. It all needs to be there already. While I don't disagree that the separate storylines of A Song of Ice and Fire could stand well on their own, part of the fascination is the way you can see that they're going to start colliding. |
| 17:41.23 | nevcairiel | so are you, but i'm not judging! |
| 17:41.55 | Lunessa | alestane: Yes, there's a lot of that in there and it does enrich the tale. |
| 17:43.19 | alestane | The only thing that makes me want to hate him (although I can't quite bring myself to it) is the way he takes the most personable, upstanding, dedicated person in the whole system and TREACHEROUSLY HACKS HIS HEAD OFF halfway through the first book. |
| 17:43.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Gotai (~Gotai@ip54546435.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl) |
| 17:43.41 | Lopeppeppy | Billy Bob Thornton: "Anyone can die, at any time." |
| 17:43.54 | alestane | Like I said, can't quite actually hate him for it. |
| 17:44.04 | alestane | It made the events that much more real. |
| 17:44.17 | Lunessa | alestane: While the young Stark is a favorite, his bastard brother scores higher on my list of "upstanding" people. |
| 17:44.27 | alestane | Jon Snow? |
| 17:44.30 | Lunessa | Yes. |
| 17:44.33 | alestane | Jon's awesome. |
| 17:44.53 | alestane | He's gained a lot of that maturity through the series, though. |
| 17:45.10 | *** join/#wowuidev stupiddigmouse_ (~chatzilla@74.117.58.76) |
| 17:45.11 | nevcairiel | I'm reading hobb now, farseer trilogy, not sure how to judge it half-way through the first book yet |
| 17:45.13 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (~smcn@c-174-52-173-217.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 17:45.24 | Lunessa | And Jammie Lannister tugs pretty hard on all the "path to redemption" issues built into my own psyche. |
| 17:45.39 | Lopeppeppy | nevcairiel, give it time to develop, it really is a full trilogy. |
| 17:45.57 | Lopeppeppy | Jaime Lannister can drop dead. He murders children. |
| 17:46.05 | Lunessa | nevcairiel: I liked it ; a lot. The third book would not have worked without the first two to support it. |
| 17:46.12 | alestane | Jammie's fascinating. Not quite sure I'd say "awesome" but he's been growing a lot. I don't think he'll ever be "nice" but he's rediscovering "principled." |
| 17:46.25 | nevcairiel | I never read one book of a trilogy, and especially not the last |
| 17:46.26 | Lunessa | alestane: And remorse. |
| 17:47.46 | alestane | In anyone else's books, Peppy, Jaime would have to die, but he'd die in a way that redeemed him somehow. Martin, however, is a firm believer that not everyone gets what they deserve, so I don't know what will happen to him. |
| 17:49.31 | Lunessa | Jammie Lannister, he fascinates me. In that, "but for the grace of god, there goes I" sort of way. You can trace his fall and his own self-recrimination about what he did. |
| 17:49.57 | alestane | Snape was like that. He had to be revealed as a "good guy", but by that time there was no living redemption for the things he had done. |
| 17:50.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Ginji (~Ginji@cc1040670-a.gorre1.fr.home.nl) |
| 17:51.03 | *** join/#wowuidev mitchnull (~mitchnull@catv3EC944A1.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 17:51.35 | alestane | My wife made that comment about the end of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, that "it's possible to lose sight of honor and principle so completely that they only way you can reclaim your integrity is to die." |
| 17:52.53 | alestane | Or as the sword reads at the end of Madama Butterfly, "To die with honor when you can no longer live with honor." |
| 17:52.53 | Lunessa | ... see, I like your wife a lot for a woman I've never met or conversed with. |
| 17:52.53 | Lopeppeppy | Kat is good peoples. |
| 17:53.20 | Lopeppeppy | She deserves the Awesome Brownie Pan of Doooom. |
| 17:53.39 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (~smcn@c-174-52-173-217.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 17:53.52 | Lunessa | http://smittenkitchen.com/ - thank me later. |
| 17:54.04 | alestane | The memory of that moment of you walking into our apartment and going "Hello pretty lady!" makes me warm and fuzzy inside. |
| 17:54.14 | Lopeppeppy | She is a pretty lady. |
| 17:55.05 | alestane | Always best when the kitties get along. |
| 17:56.24 | alestane | Speaking of which, how's the Moose this week? |
| 17:57.12 | Lopeppeppy | She has learned to teleport to the top of the dresser, from which she has NOT learned to teleport down. I have to rescue her every time she gets up there. |
| 17:57.53 | alestane | So do you expect to find her up there when you get home? |
| 17:58.12 | Lopeppeppy | No. I close the bedroom door when I'm not home, to prevent inter-cat war. |
| 17:58.13 | alestane | Or did you shut her out of the bedroom? |
| 17:58.53 | alestane | They're still not quite easy with each other yet, huh? |
| 17:59.16 | Lopeppeppy | Still some chasing and hissing going on. |
| 18:09.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (~Kandoko@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 18:10.18 | Fisker | alestane |
| 18:10.41 | Cide | assuming direct control |
| 18:10.56 | Fisker | yes |
| 18:11.26 | alestane | You do not have sufficient access privileges. |
| 18:11.42 | Lunessa | What is your security clearance, citizen? |
| 18:11.57 | alestane | Happiness is mandatory. |
| 18:12.01 | alestane | ...are you happy> |
| 18:12.04 | alestane | ?* |
| 18:12.25 | Lopeppeppy | Am I happy? |
| 18:12.45 | alestane | Obviously |
| 18:12.46 | Lunessa | If you are not happy, you will be reassigned to new duties as reactor shielding. |
| 18:13.04 | alestane | Because happiness is required, therefore everyone is happy. |
| 18:13.06 | Lopeppeppy | Negative, I am a meat popsicle. |
| 18:13.22 | alestane | I still don't understand that reference. |
| 18:13.56 | Lopeppeppy | .... Fifth Element. Watch it. Soon. |
| 18:13.58 | Lunessa | alestane: Lopeppeppy's quote is from "Fifth Element" |
| 18:14.17 | alestane | That's why it sounds familiar. |
| 18:14.23 | alestane | I have in fact seen the movie. |
| 18:14.33 | Lopeppeppy | Watch it again. Soon. |
| 18:14.49 | alestane | I didn't find it that impressive the first time, honestly. |
| 18:15.03 | alestane | Acceptable, but sort of 'eh'. |
| 18:15.24 | Lunessa | "Trust The Computer. The Computer is Your Friend." |
| 18:16.53 | Lopeppeppy | ... Chicken good! |
| 18:16.57 | Lopeppeppy | *blink blink* |
| 18:17.39 | alestane | Maintenance appears to be slightly extended. |
| 18:17.48 | Aqua | uh :<Ui xmlns="http://www.blizzard.com/wow/ui/" |
| 18:17.48 | Aqua | xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" |
| 18:17.48 | Aqua | xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.blizzard.com/wow/ui/ ..\FrameXML\UI.xsd"> is right for the start of an xml file right? |
| 18:18.07 | alestane | That's the usual opening. |
| 18:18.17 | Aqua | why is the schema griping... |
| 18:18.33 | alestane | What's griping? A validator? |
| 18:18.36 | Aqua | ya |
| 18:18.41 | Aqua | never griped before |
| 18:18.56 | alestane | Make sure the UI.xsd file is actually in that location, then. |
| 18:19.24 | alestane | I have to fix the path on mine, Mac file system doesn't like Windows path. |
| 18:20.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphon (~gryphon@c-71-227-239-71.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 18:20.31 | Fisker | gropes alestane |
| 18:20.52 | alestane | You do not have sufficient access privileges for that, either. |
| 18:21.33 | Aqua | its freaking visual studio pitching a fit because its says it has errors.. |
| 18:21.42 | Lunessa | I think "Happiness is Mandatory" would make a good guild motd. |
| 18:21.54 | Aqua | that sounds socialist.. |
| 18:22.11 | Lunessa | No, more like absolutist. |
| 18:22.23 | alestane | I believe you can manually tell Visual Studio where to get the schema. |
| 18:22.56 | Aqua | yea, i just did |
| 18:23.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (~Kandoko@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 18:27.09 | alestane | http://textsfromlastnight.com/Text-Replies-14829.html |
| 18:28.18 | Aqua | servers still down |
| 18:28.19 | Aqua | ? |
| 18:29.08 | alestane | Can't even get through authentication at the moment. |
| 18:29.29 | Aqua | same here |
| 18:29.39 | Aqua | thats why iw as double checking because realm status says some are up |
| 18:29.53 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 18:29.54 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 18:29.59 | Lopeppeppy | For different values of "some" and "up" |
| 18:30.43 | Aqua | i was being vague... |
| 18:42.52 | alestane | Additional patch data just hit the downloader. |
| 18:42.58 | Aqua | yea i noticed that |
| 18:43.09 | Aqua | they wouldn't push 3.3 today would they |
| 18:43.11 | Aqua | god i hope not |
| 18:44.55 | alestane | No, if they were doing that it would actually be patching. |
| 18:45.02 | alestane | "On day one, theyâve got a craggy crust and a warm, plush interior; they love butter and you love them. |
| 18:45.02 | alestane | "On day two, they have a density, especially when your big toe breaks their fall, that could threaten your efforts to reign in your foul language now that tiny, impressionable ears linger about." |
| 18:45.19 | Aqua | true.. |
| 18:45.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Schnaks (~Schnaks@p5486E132.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:48.40 | Aqua | auth servers are up |
| 18:48.42 | Aqua | finally |
| 18:48.53 | *** part/#wowuidev mitchnull (~mitchnull@catv3EC944A1.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 18:54.36 | *** join/#wowuidev mitchnull (~mitchnull@catv3EC944A1.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 19:00.09 | Shadowed | <late> |
| 19:00.30 | Shadowed | nevcairiel: Hobb's is interesting, I'm still not sure if I want to hate it or not |
| 19:02.09 | *** part/#wowuidev mitchnull (~mitchnull@catv3EC944A1.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 19:04.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Gotai (~Gotai@ip54546435.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl) |
| 19:17.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Stew_a (~Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 19:18.43 | Lunessa | Shadowed: The third book is a little "action light/drama heavy" and a lot of "think, think, think" but I liked it. |
| 19:18.56 | Shadowed | Yea, it wasn't terrible but it was just a bit odd |
| 19:19.30 | Lunessa | Yeah, and it required the build up of the first two to work at all. |
| 19:19.58 | Shadowed | yup |
| 19:20.10 | Shadowed | He released a new series thought that's based loosely off that world thought |
| 19:20.16 | Shadowed | Dragon's Keeper, Dragon's something |
| 19:20.37 | Lunessa | Robin Hobb is a woman. |
| 19:21.10 | Shadowed | Not sure why I was thinking he |
| 19:21.12 | Lunessa | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/Robin_Hobb_2005.JPG |
| 19:21.35 | Shadowed | You would think it's a bit obvious given her names "Robin" |
| 19:21.48 | Shadowed | Ah, keeper it is: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dragon-Keeper-Rain-Wild-Chronicles/dp/0007273746 |
| 19:22.04 | nevcairiel | isnt there 3 trilogys that are basically based on the farseer universe? |
| 19:22.17 | Lunessa | I went to school in my 5th grade year with a boy and a girl both named Robin. |
| 19:22.17 | Shadowed | yea |
| 19:22.21 | nevcairiel | or 4, even |
| 19:24.14 | *** join/#wowuidev svenadh (~sven@p5B399D7D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:25.02 | Lunessa | alestane: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=23766799361&sid=1 - Post #7 - make you laugh too? |
| 19:25.39 | Lopeppeppy | nevcairiel, a new one just started, too! |
| 19:25.50 | Adys | anyone using blender? |
| 19:26.03 | Adys | how can I switch from fullscreen to windowed once a session is open? |
| 19:26.08 | Fisker | yeah i use it for milkshakes |
| 19:26.35 | Fisker | btw pro-tip Lunessa you can add #7 to your link |
| 19:26.36 | Fisker | ;3 |
| 19:26.58 | Lunessa | fisker, I know, but I r the lazy and the joke requires the set up. |
| 19:27.29 | Fisker | no! |
| 19:27.38 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (~airtonix@unaffiliated/airtonix) |
| 19:28.11 | Lunessa | Howard Johnson is right! |
| 19:29.12 | Shadowed | alestane: the solution to maintenance issues is always toss money at it, duh |
| 19:29.24 | Fisker | yep |
| 19:29.40 | Shadowed | For example, if you give me enough money I'll ban Fisker and we solve issues! |
| 19:29.50 | Fisker | excellent point |
| 19:31.00 | Fisker | But it's pretty awesome |
| 19:31.08 | Lunessa | Shadowed: Define "enough money"? 'cause if it's non-astronomical I'll start a collection. |
| 19:31.17 | Shadowed | $100 will get Fisker banned* |
| 19:31.29 | Shadowed | *Actual duration of ban depends on how much attention Cairenn is paying |
| 19:31.36 | Lunessa | *snickers* |
| 19:31.55 | Lunessa | She's totally going to smack me for offering to collect the money. |
| 19:31.58 | Cairenn | lol |
| 19:32.06 | Shadowed | She's too nice for that, you'd get a stern talking to |
| 19:32.16 | Shadowed | Hi cair! |
| 19:32.19 | Cairenn | hullo |
| 19:32.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Riffage (~limi@78-86-205-138.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 19:32.22 | Lunessa | No, after almost 8 years of my crap, she'd smack me. |
| 19:32.32 | Shadowed | innocent |
| 19:34.15 | Lopeppeppy | As if |
| 19:34.15 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI|mobile (~KarlKFI@166.205.138.235) |
| 19:34.28 | *** join/#wowuidev taleden (~alex@user-38q41i6.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 19:34.50 | Lunessa | He's as pure as the driven slush. Too bad we can't get him to drink shots of 151 like we did to CKK. |
| 19:34.53 | Shadowed | Shhh Lopeppeppy |
| 19:34.56 | Fisker | i have just bought a new 64 bitcomp and i have transfered wow from one to the other. if i go in the video settings it still says about it been 24 bit colour. should this have change or anything? and is there anything i can do to increase graphics and thatt nw that im on 64 bit and with me having a better processer and tht |
| 19:34.58 | Fisker | ... |
| 19:35.10 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI_ (~KarlKFI@166.205.138.235) |
| 19:35.17 | Shadowed | Lunessa: I'm not crazy enough to do that |
| 19:35.27 | Lunessa | Fisker: The one number of bits has nothing to do with the other. |
| 19:35.34 | Adys | http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/ |
| 19:35.38 | Adys | anyone tried that in wine? |
| 19:36.05 | durcyn | i like how the acid3 image has 55/100 on it |
| 19:36.11 | Adys | and Lol |
| 19:36.22 | taleden | Fisker: that's like saying you got a 6 cylinder engine so why are there still only 4 doors |
| 19:36.31 | Adys | ie9 is scoring better than firefox on mozilla's own javascript benchmark |
| 19:36.32 | Adys | man |
| 19:36.43 | Shadowed | but it's IE |
| 19:36.57 | Shadowed | they could copy Chrome and everyone would hate it still cause it's IE branded |
| 19:37.14 | Adys | im not saying ie is good |
| 19:37.17 | Adys | im saying firefox is bad |
| 19:37.18 | Adys | bad bad bad |
| 19:37.29 | Shadowed | Chrome for Mac is still betaish :( |
| 19:37.33 | Shadowed | No open all for bookmarks, no Java either |
| 19:37.34 | Adys | whocares |
| 19:37.40 | durcyn | IE's rendering engine has always been decent, a least at its release time, it's just the fucking security model |
| 19:37.51 | Adys | no, durcyn |
| 19:38.08 | Adys | get off your drugs, ie's rendering engine is terrible :P |
| 19:38.27 | durcyn | okay, substitute "functional" for decent in that sentence |
| 19:38.37 | durcyn | and emphasize the qualifier of "at the exact moment in time that it is releaesd" |
| 19:38.45 | durcyn | whereafter it proceeds to languish in obscurity |
| 19:38.47 | Lunessa | Firefox is overdue for some under-the-hood work on core components. |
| 19:38.58 | Adys | firefox is terrible |
| 19:39.03 | *** join/#wowuidev chewish (~chewish@host86-176-146-17.range86-176.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:39.17 | Adys | "terrible" or "fucking retarded" is the only way to end a sentence beginning with "firefox is" |
| 19:39.20 | Lunessa | I still heart it more than ie. |
| 19:39.46 | Adys | to be completely fair... |
| 19:39.47 | Lopeppeppy | ^ |
| 19:39.50 | Lunessa | though Chrome and Safari are pretty sweet for most things. |
| 19:39.59 | Lopeppeppy | I do hear tell they're working on some under the hood things in FF. |
| 19:40.15 | Adys | if i had to upgrade ie6 on someone's pc and I had to choose between ie8 and firefox |
| 19:40.19 | Adys | i honestly think id pick ie8. |
| 19:40.43 | Lunessa | I don't /hate/ ie8, but I strongly prefer Firefox. |
| 19:40.52 | Shadowed | Firefox has just been laggy lately |
| 19:40.57 | durcyn | firefox has become the thing it hates |
| 19:41.00 | Adys | ~define lately |
| 19:41.01 | purl | Use ~dict for definitions. |
| 19:41.05 | Adys | fu |
| 19:41.06 | durcyn | basically, go chrome or go home |
| 19:41.16 | Adys | ya durcyn |
| 19:41.33 | Lunessa | Though when using hulu.com for catching up on TV shows, I gave up on firefox and went to safari. |
| 19:41.33 | olafski | has anyone tried ReadyBoost? |
| 19:41.40 | Fisker | hey Shadowed |
| 19:41.42 | taleden | does chrome have flashblock yet? |
| 19:41.47 | nevcairiel | yes |
| 19:41.51 | Adys | of course |
| 19:41.56 | Adys | its had plugin for the past 6 months |
| 19:41.58 | Lunessa | olafski: I used ReadyBoost on my home PC. worth it. totally. |
| 19:41.58 | olafski | I hooked up a 2GB USB drive yesterday, it asked me if I wanted to use it for readyboost.. I said yes, it seems like quite a difference.. hadn't expected that |
| 19:42.03 | *** part/#wowuidev Adys (~Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 19:42.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (~Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 19:42.17 | olafski | lunessa: how much ram and how much readyboost "ram" are you using? |
| 19:42.19 | nevcairiel | i dont have any usb stick that is fast enough for ready boost =P |
| 19:42.32 | nevcairiel | but i wonder if it would make a difference with 8gb ram |
| 19:42.37 | Adys | stick something else in it nevcairiel |
| 19:42.56 | olafski | the pc I'm going to install win7 on only has 2GB ram, I imagine it would make an even bigger difference there |
| 19:43.09 | Lunessa | olafski: I was doing 2gb ram and a 2gb flash drive until I upgraded to 4gb RAM and a 8gb flash drive for readyboost. |
| 19:43.19 | olafski | alright =) |
| 19:43.27 | Lunessa | It makes a large difference when playing WoW. |
| 19:43.41 | olafski | even better.. this pc just barely runs wow atm |
| 19:44.15 | olafski | think I'll give it a go this weekend =) |
| 19:44.33 | Cide | sounds like a good way to degrade your flash stick's performance too |
| 19:44.39 | Cide | if you use it like you would ram |
| 19:44.44 | Adys | http://en.akihabaranews.com/40004/cameras/canon-domain-soon-available-on-the-web |
| 19:44.44 | Adys | WHAT |
| 19:44.45 | Adys | this cant be |
| 19:44.46 | Cide | but maybe the os is smarter than that |
| 19:44.48 | Adys | this is impossible |
| 19:44.55 | Adys | canon gets its own domain name before google does? |
| 19:44.57 | olafski | I don't think it's actually used like ram |
| 19:45.04 | olafski | it's some kind of prefetching/caching thing |
| 19:45.05 | Shadowed | what |
| 19:45.11 | Fisker | That is fucked up |
| 19:45.16 | Lunessa | Cide: it's acting like cache, not ram |
| 19:45.18 | Fisker | messed up in the face |
| 19:45.42 | Adys | what what Shadowed |
| 19:46.04 | Lunessa | basically, it helps with WoW 'cause it can pre-fetch and store lots of large textures and the flash drive is faster than HDD. |
| 19:46.17 | olafski | would be nice if google had their own domain like that adys :) |
| 19:46.49 | olafski | lunessa: it also seems like a nice way to upgrade this pc, since the motherboard is so old that upgrading ram isn't really an option =) |
| 19:46.55 | nevcairiel | wow can only allocate 2gb of memory, on any half-modern system you have enough ram to keep that in main memory |
| 19:47.00 | nevcairiel | so whats the need? :D |
| 19:47.06 | Adys | olafski: http://chrome.google/ |
| 19:47.06 | olafski | nevcairiel: prefetching? |
| 19:47.07 | Adys | \o/ |
| 19:47.10 | olafski | adys: yeah :) |
| 19:47.28 | Adys | hey that url works. |
| 19:47.43 | foxlit | doesn't. |
| 19:47.43 | Cide | I don't see how generic TDL's are good |
| 19:47.48 | foxlit | Unless you're in googleland. |
| 19:47.56 | Adys | it redirects me to chrome.google.com |
| 19:48.01 | olafski | doesn't work for me |
| 19:48.08 | foxlit | You must be in googleland. |
| 19:48.13 | olafski | which means, using chrome? |
| 19:48.14 | alestane | Adys: Some browsers will do that automatically. |
| 19:48.16 | Adys | believe me I am |
| 19:48.25 | Adys | alestane: some dns services too |
| 19:48.27 | Lopeppeppy | Doesn't redirect for me either. Neat. |
| 19:48.32 | Adys | Cide: tbh, we're like 10 years into the web and it's already hell to find a decent .com |
| 19:48.42 | Cide | still |
| 19:48.49 | Adys | enabling more choices in TLDs, particularly for companies, is a good thing |
| 19:48.52 | Lunessa | it's a pretty decent performance boost. It was very handy under Vista 32 bit at 2gb of ram. And I spent like $12 on the 8gb flash stick I'm using as readyboost fodder so it was cheaper than buying a new mobo (which is what I would need to do to get more than 4gb of RAM now). |
| 19:48.59 | Cide | I dunno |
| 19:49.02 | taleden | yeah, letting everyon register TLDs eliminates that room for expansion, it'll come back to bite us |
| 19:49.10 | Lunessa | I'm using Windows 7 64bit now though. |
| 19:49.14 | Cide | soon we'll have TTDL's |
| 19:49.19 | Cide | on top of all the TDL's |
| 19:49.33 | Adys | and thinking user-friendliness, typing http://macbookpro.apple is a lot better than http://apple.com/macbookpro |
| 19:49.42 | Cide | not really |
| 19:49.43 | taleden | how is it a lot better |
| 19:49.49 | Cide | at least the .com tells a user it's a URL |
| 19:49.59 | Adys | and the http doesnt? :P |
| 19:50.00 | Cide | if you just see "For more information, see macbookpro.apple" |
| 19:50.11 | olafski | now I'll be able to tell my father "just look on the microsoft website" and he can just type 'microsoft' :) |
| 19:50.20 | Adys | how about "go to macbookpro.apple"? |
| 19:50.21 | taleden | or better yet, instead of apple.com, will they just say "Visit us on the web at apple" |
| 19:50.23 | Lunessa | Exposing the file system to the user is never "user friendly" |
| 19:50.40 | nevcairiel | you can already do that olafski, any sane browser will take you to the first hit on google :d |
| 19:50.52 | Adys | sure now its confusing, but what if you said "go to macbookpro.info"? |
| 19:50.54 | olafski | nevcairiel: perhaps, but firefox doesn't |
| 19:50.55 | Adys | you can tell its a url |
| 19:50.58 | Shadowed | The only advantage to .apple is probably it's harder to camp |
| 19:51.03 | Adys | but the regular user has never seen a .info url |
| 19:51.04 | nevcairiel | olafski: firefox does |
| 19:51.07 | Shadowed | so instead of having say, aple, and apple. you just have .apple |
| 19:51.10 | olafski | oh it does |
| 19:51.10 | olafski | hmm :P |
| 19:51.17 | taleden | and .aple |
| 19:51.26 | olafski | when I typed 'google' it took me to a list of results instead of the first hit |
| 19:51.27 | Shadowed | From the sounds of it, you won't be able to easily get a gTLD |
| 19:51.41 | Pneumatus | remember AOL keywords? :P |
| 19:51.44 | Adys | it costs hundreds of thousands of dollars |
| 19:51.44 | Adys | :P |
| 19:51.52 | Shadowed | yea |
| 19:51.56 | Adys | thats not the same as parking some shitty .com |
| 19:52.02 | Lunessa | Pneumatus: more than I can ever really explain... |
| 19:52.08 | Shadowed | The fact that you don't have to deal with parking is a good advantage |
| 19:52.10 | alestane | I believe the ICANN also wants evidence that you'll actually be able to administer a TLD. |
| 19:52.39 | Adys | Im really wondering why google didnt do that now though |
| 19:52.43 | alestane | Or maybe it's the IANA. |
| 19:52.53 | taleden | we could also just hike the rates for .com and punt all the small timers to something else, like .co.us |
| 19:52.53 | Adys | although probably every google employee also is |
| 19:52.54 | Fisker | i have 5 years of experience using vitsa |
| 19:52.55 | taleden | the way the uk is |
| 19:52.56 | Fisker | vista |
| 19:52.56 | Pneumatus | too busy :angryface:'ing in china |
| 19:53.15 | Shadowed | That would cause more uproar |
| 19:53.19 | Shadowed | easier to just do the gTLD stuff |
| 19:53.28 | Adys | .com has a specific advantage |
| 19:53.34 | taleden | but I still think making the TLD a corporate identifier rather than a classification is a terrible idea |
| 19:53.37 | Adys | you type google and ctrl-enter |
| 19:53.40 | Adys | and there you are |
| 19:53.47 | Adys | why, taleden? |
| 19:54.02 | Adys | the tld itself is not an identifier |
| 19:54.06 | Adys | hasnt been for years |
| 19:54.15 | taleden | it eliminates the flexibility of having a TLD space to expand the infrastructure with later |
| 19:54.25 | Adys | even country tlds are starting to lose their identity |
| 19:54.25 | Pneumatus | yeh, no one respects the original intentions of com/net/org etc |
| 19:54.30 | Adys | like pidgin.im, goo.gl, bit.ly |
| 19:54.54 | Shadowed | What flexibility? :p |
| 19:55.00 | Pneumatus | a lot of country tlds are available to anyone these days |
| 19:55.03 | Shadowed | people use whatever extension they want |
| 19:55.05 | Adys | taleden: ... if you want to expand a local infrastructure, you dont use tlds, period |
| 19:55.11 | Adys | http://isuckcocks/ |
| 19:55.13 | taleden | i didn't say local |
| 19:55.19 | taleden | i didn't mean local, i meant global |
| 19:55.22 | Adys | erm |
| 19:55.23 | alestane | It's really about branding and recognition these days. |
| 19:55.25 | Adys | then expand it how? |
| 19:55.26 | Shadowed | yea |
| 19:55.44 | Shadowed | Country codes are more for catchy branding |
| 19:55.47 | taleden | who knows? that's the point, having the TLD be a reserved space means its reserved for future needs, even ones we don't anticipate yet |
| 19:55.58 | Adys | its never been reserved |
| 19:56.03 | Adys | well |
| 19:56.05 | Shadowed | It's not like everyone is going to be doing this either |
| 19:56.06 | taleden | destroying it means we lose the ability to EVER use the TLD for any such purpose |
| 19:56.13 | taleden | shadowed: that strikes me as another problem |
| 19:56.14 | Adys | exactly shadowed |
| 19:56.20 | taleden | it creates a tiered internet |
| 19:56.22 | Shadowed | When are we going to need an apple TLD? :P |
| 19:56.25 | Shadowed | what |
| 19:56.27 | taleden | if you're a bigshot company you get to be .apple or .google |
| 19:56.32 | Pneumatus | omnomnom.apple |
| 19:56.34 | taleden | if you don't have that kind of cash to throw around, you become second-rate |
| 19:56.36 | taleden | you're only a .com |
| 19:56.40 | Adys | ... so? |
| 19:56.44 | Adys | thats the way its been in real life |
| 19:56.48 | taleden | so i don't see the advantage of that |
| 19:56.51 | Adys | for the past.. two hundred or odd years? |
| 19:56.51 | taleden | it'll just confuse people |
| 19:56.56 | Shadowed | If you have cash to throw around, you get a simple domain because you can buy it or you've been around long enough it doesn't matter |
| 19:57.11 | Shadowed | At this point, unless you make up or mangle a word, you aren't getting a "first tier" domain name |
| 19:57.14 | Adys | big companies get the good stuff |
| 19:57.17 | Shadowed | exactly |
| 19:57.19 | Adys | small companies get the less-good stuff |
| 19:57.33 | taleden | it just strikes me as irresponsible to blindly throw away that breathing room |
| 19:57.47 | Adys | it's not breathing room |
| 19:57.50 | Shadowed | I'm not sure how you can say it throws away breathing room. When are we going to need an "apple" or "canon" TLD? |
| 19:57.51 | taleden | we're basically saying "we've decided that we will never ever need to use the TLD for any meaningful purpose, so we're opening it up for everyone" |
| 19:57.52 | taleden | what if you're wrong? |
| 19:58.12 | Shadowed | I honestly cannot think of a single reason we would need an apple/canon/microsoft/adobe/etc TLD |
| 19:58.13 | Adys | ... you've got a strange definition of "everyone" |
| 19:58.27 | taleden | for those examples, sure |
| 19:58.28 | taleden | what about IBM? |
| 19:58.37 | Shadowed | TLD stopped being meaningful a long time ago |
| 19:58.40 | taleden | what about other big companies with weird names that kind of overlap other meanings? |
| 19:58.52 | Shadowed | The only purpose it serves is adding variety and confusion to domains |
| 19:59.00 | Shadowed | What about them? |
| 19:59.02 | Adys | taleden: so you mean when you go to apple.com, you're expecting a website about fruits? |
| 19:59.03 | Adys | :P |
| 19:59.07 | Fisker | no TLD's could be nice |
| 19:59.12 | Shadowed | Right now, if you have the same abbreviation as IBM, you aren't getting ibm.com |
| 19:59.30 | Adys | and if you sell apples. |
| 19:59.37 | Pneumatus | or googles |
| 19:59.39 | Pneumatus | :hmm |
| 19:59.51 | Shadowed | Custom TLDs don't fix any of the issues that you already have with domains and our current set of TLDs |
| 20:00.03 | Shadowed | The issues of similarity I should say |
| 20:00.05 | Adys | anyway, dibs on .mac and .ms |
| 20:00.06 | Adys | \o/ |
| 20:00.13 | taleden | *shrug* on principle I think it's a bad idea to give up whitespace that you might need to use someday for something more important |
| 20:00.22 | Fisker | dibs on insider |
| 20:00.25 | Fisker | wow.insider |
| 20:00.29 | alestane | Actually, I think you could argue that TLD have been reduced to noise in many cases. |
| 20:00.30 | Shadowed | I'm still not sure why you think will need an apple/mac/etc TLD :P |
| 20:00.39 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI|mobile (~KarlKFI@166.205.138.235) |
| 20:00.40 | Shadowed | I could see ms maybe |
| 20:00.40 | Adys | I'm with alestane on that one |
| 20:00.41 | taleden | I don't see such a great need that we need to box ourselves into that place where we no longer have even the possibility of making TLDs meaningful |
| 20:00.56 | Shadowed | This gives them more meaning really |
| 20:00.57 | Adys | if you want breathing room, it's sometimes better to leave the possibility to create it |
| 20:01.00 | Adys | rather than reserve it |
| 20:01.11 | Shadowed | If you knew that any prefix of .apple is going to go to apple's site, or any .canon goes to cannon it has more meaning than com |
| 20:01.21 | alestane | Is anyone actually going to make a useful distinction between apple.com and apple.info? |
| 20:01.27 | Shadowed | alestane: The problem is more that com/net/org has no actual meaning. So you can have two different sites at a com and an info |
| 20:01.30 | taleden | did you know that barcodes, which are administered and allocated by an international trade group to make sure people don't overlap, have reserved ranges? |
| 20:01.38 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI_ (~KarlKFI@166.205.138.235) |
| 20:01.40 | Adys | It also implements something very secure |
| 20:01.43 | taleden | there are barcode prefixes you can safely use within your organization and trust that nobody else has used them, because they're reserved |
| 20:01.44 | alestane | USPS already forwards usps.gov to usps.com. |
| 20:01.47 | Shadowed | hell |
| 20:01.58 | Adys | you can, for example, have a .paypal tld |
| 20:02.01 | Shadowed | If Blizzard had .blizzard, you would be able to see pretty quickly who--- yea |
| 20:02.15 | taleden | if that wasn't the case, a lot of companies would have a lot harder time using that technology for their own purposes, they'd be locked into every single barcode being potentially used by somebody |
| 20:02.22 | nevcairiel | you can already pretty quickly see that a domain is fake |
| 20:02.28 | theorbtwo | Shadowed: OTOH, if blizzard used subdomain.blizzard.com for everything, you'd be able to see pretty well already. |
| 20:02.32 | Adys | nevcairiel: but the browser has no way to tell. |
| 20:02.42 | nevcairiel | it still won't |
| 20:02.43 | Adys | theorbtwo: again, the browser has no way to tell |
| 20:02.50 | Adys | not necessarily |
| 20:02.55 | theorbtwo | Adys: Indeed, but that's a seperate issue, IMHO. |
| 20:02.56 | Shadowed | nevcairiel: Of course, it wont fix it, but it's a lot more obvious. |
| 20:02.59 | taleden | here's another example: on an intranet with no associated public domain name, you can use a fake intranet domain |
| 20:03.02 | Fisker | http://twitter.com/real_samfisher <-and i thought Blizzard's Twitter and Facebook usage was retarded |
| 20:03.12 | taleden | like "isis.mycompany.local" |
| 20:03.17 | taleden | or maybe just "isis.mycompany" |
| 20:03.23 | taleden | now what if mycompany could actually be a real TLD? |
| 20:03.25 | theorbtwo | Actually, .local is reserved for use by mdns. |
| 20:03.34 | taleden | how can you tell whether you want the local intranet name or the public internet name? |
| 20:03.46 | Adys | some tlds are reserved, taleden |
| 20:03.52 | theorbtwo | taleden: If there is no trailing dot, the local name takes precidence. |
| 20:04.22 | Adys | the URI rfc is quite extensive |
| 20:04.23 | theorbtwo | In any case, you've never *really* been able to just make shit up. It's just that you were more likely to know at least most of the real TLDs. |
| 20:04.32 | theorbtwo | (Do you know about .int? .arpa?) |
| 20:04.39 | alestane | It's also worth noticing that there is a reserved, specific domain space that distinguishes local domain lookups from those actually administered by the root domain servers..."com." and "com" are techinically different domains. |
| 20:04.46 | DWSR | theorbtwo: .arpa I know about. |
| 20:04.54 | DWSR | theorbtwo: That's the one for all the RDNS hostnames, isn't it? |
| 20:05.16 | Adys | I don't know about .int |
| 20:05.22 | alestane | The second-level domain example.com is also reserved. |
| 20:05.24 | theorbtwo | DWSR: Yes. It used to be used for other things as well, but those have all moved. .int is reserved for international treaty orginizations. |
| 20:05.25 | Adys | but I'm definitely reserving .sta and .critrating |
| 20:05.49 | theorbtwo | www.eu.int, for example. (Which redirects to europa.eu.) |
| 20:05.56 | DWSR | http://example.com/ <-- lol |
| 20:06.12 | nevcairiel | whats so funny about htat? |
| 20:06.23 | Adys | id like to know too |
| 20:06.25 | nevcairiel | there is even a RFC that says you should use example.com in examples =P |
| 20:06.30 | DWSR | that people are stupid enough to type that shit into a browser. |
| 20:06.39 | Adys | eh...? |
| 20:06.41 | theorbtwo | Hm. I'm surprised that it has an IP and a web server. |
| 20:06.45 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 20:07.29 | Adys | I just had a brilliant idea |
| 20:07.30 | DWSR | Adys: When referring to documentation dealing with URLs, shouldn't generally be rather obvious that http://www.example.com/... is NOT a real URL? |
| 20:07.43 | Adys | ... it is a real url |
| 20:07.45 | DWSR | Or, more accurately, not valid for your purposes. |
| 20:08.23 | taleden | what if my purpose is to see if my dns server is resopnding? |
| 20:08.25 | taleden | responding* |
| 20:08.45 | Adys | I'd use google.com over example.com tbh :P |
| 20:08.49 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 20:09.09 | taleden | so would I, but that would still be a valid use for example.com :) |
| 20:09.15 | Adys | ya |
| 20:09.51 | Adys | so with all this talk started by me clicking on buzz instead of the email i was going to work on |
| 20:09.58 | Adys | it's now 10pm and too late to actually send the fucking email |
| 20:10.02 | Adys | great job irc |
| 20:10.07 | Adys | great fucking job. |
| 20:10.23 | alestane | ...I don't think we can really own that one. |
| 20:10.24 | taleden | psh, that's clearly your fault for being in europe |
| 20:10.27 | nevcairiel | its never too late to send an email, the delivery service works 24/7 |
| 20:10.28 | taleden | it's only 3pm here :) |
| 20:10.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 20:10.44 | Adys | really nevcairiel |
| 20:10.57 | taleden | who gets to register the .email TLD? |
| 20:11.01 | taleden | how confusing will that be? |
| 20:11.02 | Adys | i thought google has slave employees working at gmail |
| 20:11.11 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI|work (~KarlKFI|w@adcom005v.adcom.uci.edu) |
| 20:11.29 | Adys | taleden: dude, you know registering a tld is not just going on http://register.tld and paying online right? :P |
| 20:11.37 | Adys | theres a lot of administrative process going on |
| 20:11.48 | taleden | fine, sure, I still think it's a bad idea :) |
| 20:11.56 | Adys | if the icann decides a tld is to be blocked, it will be |
| 20:12.13 | alestane | Given the massive investment required to adopt and maintain a tld, taleden, I don't think something that generic is going to be brandable enough to be a sensible investment. |
| 20:12.39 | alestane | Except possibly for sublicensing it out. |
| 20:13.04 | nevcairiel | they might make it one of the official tlds, and not sell it out to one company |
| 20:13.10 | nevcairiel | but i dont see that |
| 20:13.28 | alestane | mail.domain.com is a better way to handle that. |
| 20:13.47 | nevcairiel | google.mail ? :d |
| 20:13.53 | Adys | i was typing that |
| 20:13.54 | Adys | fu |
| 20:14.01 | alestane | domain.email would really be for domains whose only purpose was to provide email hosting. |
| 20:14.08 | Adys | although |
| 20:14.12 | Adys | as insane as google is |
| 20:14.14 | nevcairiel | hot.mail |
| 20:14.43 | NeoTron | hotmale.com |
| 20:14.55 | Adys | I don't see them registering .browser, .mail, .reader, .search, .news, .checkout and .video |
| 20:15.17 | nevcairiel | i dont see the ICANN allowing that |
| 20:15.29 | NeoTron | nevcairiel: I love webstores that close at night |
| 20:15.38 | NeoTron | not as common nowadays but I still see them on occasion |
| 20:15.45 | nevcairiel | heh |
| 20:15.47 | Adys | I do see google in its white-blue shirt and puppy eyes saying "Oh, pleeeease?" |
| 20:15.52 | Lunessa | can I has tld .internet? |
| 20:15.55 | nevcairiel | my online banking is closed between 2am and 5am or something |
| 20:16.07 | NeoTron | daily maintenance! |
| 20:16.07 | nevcairiel | supposedly maintenance reasons |
| 20:16.14 | NeoTron | it's when they feed the hamsters |
| 20:16.22 | olafski | lunessa: then you can have http://my.internet :D |
| 20:16.27 | olafski | or the.internet |
| 20:16.28 | alestane | The morrowgrain thing no longer produces any useful herbs. |
| 20:16.43 | Lopeppeppy | That's unfortunate, alestane. |
| 20:16.48 | Lunessa | nevcairiel: That's prime processing time for major financial institutions for overnight loans and securities. |
| 20:17.00 | alestane | On the other hand, the cooldown is now 5 seconds instead of 15 minutes. |
| 20:17.14 | olafski | oh the cooldown on morrowgrain is gone? nice |
| 20:17.17 | Lunessa | olafski: And I can claim a Nobel Peace Prize nomination. |
| 20:17.18 | olafski | I guess.. :) |
| 20:17.29 | olafski | lunessa: this is some al gore thing I bet |
| 20:17.30 | alestane | And all you get is Morrowgrain or Mutated Morrowgrain. |
| 20:17.35 | olafski | I'm not sure I get it completely :P |
| 20:18.14 | Lunessa | olafski: http://perpetualpost.com/?p=5242 |
| 20:18.53 | Cairenn | There are FOUR lights! |
| 20:19.05 | Lunessa | But the real story: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35823790/ns/technology_and_science-tech_and_gadgets/ |
| 20:19.12 | olafski | hahaha nice lunessa |
| 20:19.21 | olafski | nominate the kindle :D |
| 20:19.32 | olafski | cairenn: really? are you sure it's not five lights? |
| 20:19.50 | Cairenn | (that episode happens to be on right now) |
| 20:20.27 | alestane | Who the heck is showing TNG at four in the afternoon? |
| 20:20.36 | Lunessa | Cairenn: That episode is actually pretty good. :) |
| 20:20.52 | olafski | yes it is :D |
| 20:21.00 | olafski | I still have to continue watching tng :( |
| 20:22.00 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy1 (~Mike@c-68-32-134-121.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 20:22.38 | Fisker | naw Lunessa |
| 20:22.50 | Fisker | with all that trolling i'm responsible for the internet can't win the nobel peace prize :( |
| 20:22.51 | Cairenn | alestane: Space Channel |
| 20:23.05 | alestane | That would do it, I guess. |
| 20:23.21 | Cairenn | day time TV scheduling sucks :p |
| 20:23.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Xyphoid (proxyuser@unaffiliated/xyphoid) |
| 20:23.41 | alestane | Unless one is fond of serial dramas. |
| 20:23.56 | Cairenn | or soaps |
| 20:24.02 | Cairenn | (which I'm not) |
| 20:24.05 | alestane | What I was referring to. |
| 20:24.09 | DWSR | Cairenn: Discovery. |
| 20:24.09 | Cairenn | ah |
| 20:24.16 | DWSR | Cairenn: Canada's Worst Driver Reruns. |
| 20:24.25 | Cairenn | DWSR: saw the episode that's currently on |
| 20:24.35 | Cairenn | Motor City Motors atm |
| 20:24.46 | alestane | The sad thing is I actually have gained some grasp of GH, because a friend of mine DVRs them, watches them on the weekend, discussing them on message boards and podcasts about them. |
| 20:25.09 | alestane | I've resisted picking up any of the characters or plotlines of any of the others she watches. |
| 20:26.46 | DWSR | man |
| 20:26.49 | DWSR | RP decays too fast |
| 20:26.50 | alestane | Peppy dear, I don't suppose any of the toons you have on Kirin Tor are herbalists? |
| 20:28.59 | Lopeppeppy | Yes, of course. I don't have the list in front of me of who is who right now though. |
| 20:29.08 | Lopeppeppy | It's not one of the grown ups. |
| 20:29.17 | alestane | So no gromsblood yet? |
| 20:29.32 | Lopeppeppy | Oh, very likely not at all. |
| 20:30.18 | alestane | C'est la vie. |
| 20:34.14 | alestane | OMG, there is not a thing to make with heavy leather that doesn't take some wacky ingredient, or at least heavy hide. |
| 20:34.38 | DWSR | "some wacky ingredient"? |
| 20:34.46 | nevcairiel | yeah heavy leather is a bad phase |
| 20:34.50 | nevcairiel | get to thick quick |
| 20:35.08 | alestane | What do you think I'm trying to do, nevcairiel? |
| 20:35.13 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-68-32-134-121.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 20:35.45 | alestane | Without Shadow Oil, Bolts of Silk, Elemental Earth and Water, or various other sundries, I go nowehere. |
| 20:36.03 | DWSR | Just buy the Bolts of Silk, they're cheap. |
| 20:36.27 | alestane | But take twice as much leather per point as most of my other options. |
| 20:37.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@c-76-107-191-65.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 20:37.19 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 20:43.56 | Lunessa | alestane: I have an alchemist and several herbalists. I can assist you. |
| 20:44.16 | alestane | Yeah, sounds like someone's going to have to pick it special for me. |
| 20:44.32 | Lunessa | Also, farming silk would be a simple matter of demolishing the Monastery a few times. |
| 20:44.53 | alestane | Not an effective approach, that recipe takes 12 leather. |
| 20:45.16 | alestane | If I need to, I just learned Dusky Bracers, which take 16 leather but no non-vendor reagents. |
| 20:45.59 | Lunessa | Yeah, well, my DK is still leveling skinning so I could help us both at the same time. |
| 20:47.47 | *** join/#wowuidev kaiden (~nnscript@c-67-183-80-147.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 20:48.52 | Lunessa | wonders how well writing a "wanted" ad (like a job posting) for a raid leader position would work out. |
| 20:50.32 | DWSR | Lunessa: As long as you provide a subscription to a porn site, I'm sure people will leap at the opportunity. |
| 20:50.55 | Thunder_Child | Lunessa: dont give it a title like this one i just noticed "Assistant project manager- low voltage" which is quite fail imo |
| 20:51.31 | Thunder_Child | DWSR: leaping isnt the word that comes to mind |
| 20:51.46 | Lunessa | DWSR: LOL |
| 20:53.03 | kaiden | I'm trying to track down an addon that is adding an Item Icon in the upper left corner of my tooltip and I can't seem to find it, can anyone suggest what to look for? |
| 20:53.19 | kaiden | i've looked for GetItemIcon so far and all through my tooltip addon's code and it's not calling it |
| 20:53.28 | DWSR | !api guild |
| 20:53.29 | lua_bot | Found 113 possible matches for 'guild'. Please be more specific |
| 20:53.32 | DWSR | fuck you |
| 20:53.34 | DWSR | !api GuildRemove |
| 20:53.35 | lua_bot | CanGuildRemove: Returns whether the player is allowed to remove members from his or her guild (http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/CanGuildRemove) |
| 20:54.59 | DWSR | Anyone that can help me make a script to "remove everyone from a guild" |
| 20:55.31 | alestane | GuildUninvite |
| 20:55.35 | DWSR | yeah. |
| 20:55.44 | alestane | !api GuildUninvite |
| 20:55.45 | lua_bot | GuildUninvite: Removes a character from the player's guild (http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/GuildUninvite) |
| 20:55.47 | DWSR | How do I loop through the guild roster though? |
| 20:55.53 | *** join/#wowuidev crs_ (~crs@dslb-084-061-002-017.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:56.07 | Lunessa | DWSR everyone BUT the Guild Leader? |
| 20:56.13 | DWSR | Lunessa: I am the guild leader. |
| 20:56.36 | Lunessa | So you want to kick them all, and preserve the name/tabard/bank, not just nuke the guild? |
| 20:56.37 | alestane | Is this something you do often enough to need a convenience script? |
| 20:56.50 | amro | good question alestane |
| 20:56.52 | DWSR | alestane: I need to remove 200 people. |
| 20:57.06 | Shirik | ... |
| 20:57.13 | DWSR | Lunessa: Yes. |
| 20:57.14 | Shirik | candidate for daily wtf? |
| 20:57.18 | DWSR | lol |
| 20:57.20 | Shirik | var myArr; |
| 20:57.20 | Shirik | if( ( myArr = re.exec( text ) ) ) { |
| 20:57.29 | Shirik | (note: "myArr" is used nowhere else in the code) |
| 20:57.29 | alestane | I still suspect you'll be able to kick them faster than you can write a working add-on. |
| 20:57.34 | DWSR | I got a guild with 5 bank tabs for free, but it has like 200 people in it. |
| 20:57.44 | DWSR | alestane: can't I just use a for loop and something with GetGuildRosterInfo? |
| 20:58.00 | Seerah | you inherited an active guild? |
| 20:58.05 | DWSR | no |
| 20:58.14 | DWSR | It's defunct, but there's still people left in it. |
| 20:58.20 | DWSR | All alt under level 50 |
| 20:58.21 | Seerah | 200 is a lot. when's the last log in time? |
| 20:58.22 | DWSR | alts* |
| 20:58.31 | DWSR | Seerah: Over 2 weeks for each |
| 20:59.13 | Xyphoid | considers how to test a mod that kicks everyone from a guild |
| 20:59.30 | *** join/#wowuidev bleeter_ (~bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 20:59.55 | alestane | Miki took care of the gromsblood anyway. |
| 21:00.03 | Seerah | yay |
| 21:02.02 | olafski | xyphoid: have it print instead of kick =) |
| 21:02.04 | Lunessa | Xyphoid: I'd use a vanity guild like my own <Dry Wit and Sarcasm> guild. |
| 21:02.22 | olafski | so that's the name for those things.. vanity guild |
| 21:02.25 | olafski | I'm in one! |
| 21:05.10 | *** join/#wowuidev mitchnull (~mitchnull@catv3EC944A1.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 21:06.34 | Lunessa | olafski: I don't know if anyone else calls them that, but I do. It's a place to stuff my alts who shouldn't be cluttering up my real roster. :) |
| 21:06.41 | olafski | ah |
| 21:06.43 | olafski | it's my main guild :P |
| 21:06.51 | olafski | I usually call it a one man guild |
| 21:06.53 | Lunessa | Also, it lets me buy a guild bank to store my extra crap. |
| 21:07.43 | DWSR | Yeah |
| 21:09.12 | amro | freeze after 1 click, new record for steam |
| 21:10.22 | Xyphoid | i wish there was a spot with an auctioneer, mailbox, and bank/gbank within range |
| 21:10.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 21:10.45 | Pneumatus | can get nearly all of that as an engineer |
| 21:10.56 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (spode@213.21.89.233) |
| 21:10.57 | Xyphoid | the auctioneer/mailbox spots are amazing but they spoil me so i can't be bothered using the bank |
| 21:11.29 | alestane | Also knows as a "Stop asking me to sign your fucking charter, I don't care" guild. |
| 21:11.31 | Kraps | hey |
| 21:12.24 | Lunessa | ok, twinkies? Not so guud aksuhally |
| 21:12.48 | alestane | Get cupcakes, at least they taste chocolatey. |
| 21:13.19 | Thunder_Child | chocolate = fail |
| 21:13.20 | Lunessa | Work bought these for a 'social' event. I had to try one - it doesn't live up to what my mind says it was like as a kid. |
| 21:13.48 | *** join/#wowuidev nicoli_s (~nsinkule@69.73.16.202) |
| 21:13.56 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v nicoli_s] by ChanServ |
| 21:14.04 | alestane | Thunder_Child: More for me then. |
| 21:14.11 | alestane | noms TC's chocolate. |
| 21:14.22 | Thunder_Child | yes alestane, you can have all my fail. |
| 21:15.11 | Lunessa | Thunder_Child: No thanks. There's enough fail around in the world without you schlepping yours off on someone else. |
| 21:15.39 | Lunessa | tends his own little garden of fail. |
| 21:17.00 | Cidwel | anyone knows a simple way to detect when someone leaves a battleground |
| 21:17.06 | Seerah | I'll take your twinkies and cupcakes |
| 21:17.24 | amro | tripwire at the exit, Cidwel? |
| 21:17.26 | Seerah | isn't there a chat message? (if there's not an event for it) |
| 21:18.41 | Xyphoid | PARTY_MEMBERS_CHANGED? |
| 21:19.14 | durcyn | should get a RAID_ROSTER_UPDATE, PMC would only work if they were in your party |
| 21:22.59 | Thunder_Child | Lunessa: not you, alestane. |
| 21:23.29 | Lunessa | Thunder_Child: I know, I know. I just wanted to make the (mean) joke. |
| 21:23.58 | Thunder_Child | Lunessa: uhhh...how was that mean? |
| 21:24.36 | Lunessa | repeats to self - if you have to explain it, it wasn't funny. |
| 21:25.29 | Thunder_Child | i disagree, just because someone doesnt get your joke, doesnt mean it isnt funny. |
| 21:25.31 | Cidwel | nup xyphoid, cause it's a raid, // durcyn but if someone moves the raid panel, the event would fire, and it doesn't tell you what happen >_> |
| 21:25.43 | Cidwel | but i'll try something like that |
| 21:26.03 | durcyn | Cidwel: cache the composition on entry, compare on the event. there's no "SOME_FUCKER_JUST_AFKED" event. |
| 21:26.08 | DWSR | Cidwel: Unusual to move people in BGs. |
| 21:26.23 | DWSR | Cidwel: Also, check the size of the raid when the event fires. |
| 21:26.29 | DWSR | If it's different than the last time, you know what's up :) |
| 21:26.35 | Cidwel | I will probably do that durcyn, thanks :), dwsr, alterac >:D |
| 21:26.43 | Lunessa | Thunder_Child: It was mean by implication. As in 'you have fail' and 'you're trying to give it to someone else.' |
| 21:26.54 | Cidwel | whow, that would work dwsr |
| 21:27.09 | Thunder_Child | Lunessa: but we all have fail....so i really dont see that as mean |
| 21:27.09 | DWSR | Cidwel: Yes, yes it would. :) |
| 21:27.29 | Lunessa | Thunder_Child: You're a kinder, nicer, person than I. |
| 21:27.47 | Thunder_Child | Lunessa: ok, now THAT was mean. |
| 21:27.51 | Cidwel | I wanna something like "SOME_FUCKER_JUST_AFKED" :s |
| 21:28.12 | DWSR | Actually, don't you get that in a RRU? |
| 21:28.20 | DWSR | I mean, not explicitly. |
| 21:28.28 | airtonix | i think its something else that fires afk |
| 21:29.14 | DWSR | http://wowprogramming.com/docs/events/PLAYER_FLAGS_CHANGED |
| 21:29.14 | airtonix | i remember tryign to make afk timers strings for ouf |
| 21:29.26 | Cidwel | DERP |
| 21:29.28 | Cidwel | *whooops |
| 21:29.33 | airtonix | 'zomg you've been afk for 3minutes... /gkick |
| 21:31.03 | Shirik | (17:25:58) (durcyn) Cidwel: cache the composition on entry, compare on the event. there's no "SOME_FUCKER_JUST_AFKED" event. |
| 21:31.05 | Shirik | awesome. |
| 21:32.11 | nevcairiel | even if there would be such an event |
| 21:32.15 | nevcairiel | it wouldnt tell you who :D |
| 21:35.27 | airtonix | you should release a guild pack that has a slash command to replace afk. |
| 21:35.40 | airtonix | if in raid : leave guild |
| 21:35.56 | nevcairiel | problem is not people using the afk slash |
| 21:35.58 | DWSR | Doing that in my next addon |
| 21:36.04 | nevcairiel | problem is people going auto-afk :p |
| 21:36.22 | airtonix | <over vent> why does going afk prompt me to leave guild? |
| 21:36.54 | airtonix | oh yeah and then sniff for the afk flag and then auto run a dance macro |
| 21:36.56 | DWSR | Can't you auto-confirm that as well? |
| 21:37.02 | airtonix | not sure |
| 21:37.30 | airtonix | would provide some hilarity until they remove the addon |
| 21:37.44 | airtonix | dood updateur omen! |
| 21:38.59 | *** part/#wowuidev mitchnull (~mitchnull@catv3EC944A1.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 21:49.43 | *** join/#wowuidev svenadh (~sven@p5B399D7D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:50.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen (~Sixen@173-25-23-10.client.mchsi.com) |
| 21:53.24 | airtonix | farts |
| 21:53.47 | Arathros | i dont care |
| 21:53.59 | Arathros | been walking for 12 hours lol I'm sooo destroyed lol |
| 21:54.50 | airtonix | this one was an assault on the olfactory senses...quite a juxtapose |
| 21:55.03 | airtonix | i think im still reeling |
| 21:57.00 | Kraps | airtonix: careful, you're using up all the big words |
| 21:57.20 | airtonix | dribbles |
| 21:57.36 | alestane | Oh good lord. |
| 21:57.47 | *** join/#wowuidev crs_ (~crs@dslb-084-061-002-017.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:57.58 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 21:57.59 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 21:58.16 | alestane | I'm supposed to mark a student present and catch them up on work because yesterday they went to someone else's class instead, instead of just blowing me off. |
| 21:58.40 | airtonix | expell them |
| 21:58.49 | airtonix | eject them from the school grounds |
| 21:59.00 | airtonix | on the heel of your boot |
| 22:00.30 | alestane | While that might be a bit extreme, acting like this is perfectly fine is excessive coddling. |
| 22:00.58 | DWSR | alestane: You teach classes where attendance matters? |
| 22:01.09 | DWSR | lol |
| 22:01.12 | alestane | These people are past high school and taking associates' degree courses; can't we reasonably expect them to figure out their schedules? |
| 22:01.27 | DWSR | None of my classes require attendance. You just fail because you don't know anything if you don't show up |
| 22:01.50 | airtonix | unless your sponsor requries an attendance report? |
| 22:02.07 | DWSR | alestane: No, you can't. |
| 22:02.07 | alestane | Actually, this particular class is one of my few that does not grade on participation. |
| 22:03.03 | alestane | Okay, she slipped up. Sure, people do that, we should get her the makeup work, I can deal with that. |
| 22:03.07 | Lunessa | A lot of my classes in college had a participation element - but then philosophy classes require lots of discussion. |
| 22:03.23 | alestane | But why do we act like she didn't mess anything up? |
| 22:04.25 | airtonix | because its not a him |
| 22:04.27 | alestane | can't afford a Master's program right now. |
| 22:04.28 | DWSR | alestane: ^^ |
| 22:04.31 | airtonix | sacred cow syndrome |
| 22:05.02 | alestane | Trust me on this, airtonix, my department head has been just as forgiving of my male students on occasion. |
| 22:05.15 | Lunessa | alestane: In any other area of life she'd be cut no slack. "Sorry, showed up at someone else's office for the meeting." "Ooops, went to some other girl's party by mistake." |
| 22:05.39 | DWSR | lol @ 2nd example. |
| 22:05.40 | airtonix | woops put the train on the wrong train lol |
| 22:06.00 | Lunessa | "Oh, was that YOUR driveway? So sorry." |
| 22:06.09 | alestane | I missed a final exam in college once due to reading the wrong schedule...got to take it, but I had to grovel first and they took a grade off. |
| 22:06.34 | DWSR | alestane: that doesn't fly here. It's explicitly mentioned that you don't write your final if you miss it unless you have a doctor's note |
| 22:07.19 | alestane | So yeah, even I got off light, and that's after I had to face my instructors in shame. |
| 22:07.44 | DWSR | alestane: Would it be fair to point out that you're being entirely hypocritical at this point? |
| 22:07.44 | nevcairiel | that happend to a girl i knew once, she mixed the dates up, and prepared for the wrong exam (week between the two big finals), she went home crying when she noticed, not sure what happend, kinda lost contact :P |
| 22:08.07 | alestane | DWSR: Not entirely. |
| 22:08.24 | alestane | I made a mistake, owned up to it, and faced consequences. |
| 22:08.41 | DWSR | Don't mark her present, then |
| 22:08.42 | alestane | I got a partial exemption, and lived with the fact that there were penalties. |
| 22:08.55 | Lunessa | She's asking for zero penalties. |
| 22:09.08 | alestane | I don't even know if it's her. |
| 22:09.20 | alestane | The only communication I've gotten is from my school chair. |
| 22:09.21 | airtonix | angry mob justice |
| 22:09.27 | airtonix | dooo eett |
| 22:11.23 | airtonix | oiu ze olfactory! |
| 22:11.51 | alestane | Just that I never dare think I've discovered how soft my school is willing to be, because they will invent a new low. |
| 22:14.58 | *** join/#wowuidev kaiden^ (~nnscript@c-67-183-80-147.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 22:16.37 | Arathros | why are the human body so stupid |
| 22:16.52 | Shadowed | Depends on your belief, either God hates us, or evolution hates us |
| 22:16.56 | Arathros | probably because of the biggest incest pool we know of lol. |
| 22:17.43 | Arathros | well evolution can be halted in alot of families. because think about it. most countries. they had closed societies. meaning.. only offspring from same bloodlines as the 50 before |
| 22:18.51 | airtonix | perfection is an oxymoron |
| 22:19.06 | Arathros | ye |
| 22:19.17 | Arathros | i know scandinavia and china had that problem for sure |
| 22:28.28 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 22:33.47 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (spode@213-21-77-27.bon.t3.se) |
| 22:34.33 | Kraps | why the hell cant i find http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=35500#. |
| 22:35.03 | Kraps | is she inside the inn? |
| 22:35.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Shadowed (~Shadowed@li53-10.members.linode.com) |
| 22:35.08 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shadowed] by ChanServ |
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| 22:35.37 | Xyphoid | she's in the mail shop |
| 22:36.12 | Xyphoid | leather and links or whatever |
| 22:37.32 | Shirik | In PCRE, is there a way to go "verify that the subgroup did not also match <regex>" |
| 22:38.04 | DWSR | yes |
| 22:38.07 | *** part/#wowuidev Thaoky (Thaoky@91.181.164.80) |
| 22:38.26 | Shirik | how do I do that? |
| 22:38.32 | DWSR | http://www.regular-expressions.info/alternation.html |
| 22:38.37 | durcyn | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyJ48-BYb7s i don't even know where to start. |
| 22:38.49 | Shirik | huh? |
| 22:38.51 | Shirik | no |
| 22:38.58 | Kraps | Xyphoid: i'm not seeing it |
| 22:38.59 | Shirik | I need something that says "it matches X and does not match Y" |
| 22:39.06 | Kraps | is the map right? |
| 22:39.11 | Xyphoid | she's in the far corner behind the counter |
| 22:39.23 | Xyphoid | i actually was looking at her stuff last night |
| 22:39.44 | DWSR | ROFL @ GABE NEWELL |
| 22:39.44 | foxlit | Shirik: negative look-ahead |
| 22:40.01 | Dashkal | What's gabe up to now? |
| 22:40.14 | Shirik | but it's not really look-ahead, at least I can't think of a way like that; I will have already captured the regex |
| 22:40.21 | DWSR | durcyn: Win |
| 22:40.22 | Shirik | er |
| 22:40.31 | Shirik | captured the ... needle? |
| 22:40.33 | Kraps | Xyphoid: holy crap i only saw the 48,41 coord |
| 22:40.39 | Kraps | its wrong |
| 22:40.51 | Kraps | thanks |
| 22:42.10 | Shirik | Ok I think I got it |
| 22:42.15 | Shirik | (?<!revision)(?<!id)[^\d](\d{7,}|\d[\d\-\s]{7,}\d|\(\d{2,}\)[\d\-\s]{6,}\d)(?<!\d{4}-\d{4}) |
| 22:42.23 | Shirik | though that's not how I intended to do it |
| 22:42.28 | Shirik | negative lookbehind does in fact work in this case |
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| 22:44.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Droolio (~drool@87-194-188-170.bethere.co.uk) |
| 22:45.44 | durcyn | http://www.etsy.com/shop/nesharmonica why didn't we think of this, guys |
| 22:46.32 | Shirik | got it |
| 22:46.33 | Shirik | (?<!revision)(?<!id)([^\d]|^)(\d{7,}|\d[\d\-\s]{6,}\d|\(\d{2,}\)[\d\-\s]{6,}\d)(?<!\d{4}-\d{4})([^\d]|$) |
| 22:46.38 | Shirik | ^ regex to detect phone numbers |
| 22:46.59 | Shirik | If everyone agreed upon what a phone number was, it would be so much easier... |
| 22:47.23 | Thunder_Child | durcyn: because our brains arent drug fried? |
| 22:47.48 | durcyn | Thunder_Child: you're talking about my childhood. |
| 22:48.51 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/123559/a-comprehensive-regex-for-phone-number-validation |
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| 22:50.00 | Shirik | appears to be insufficient |
| 22:50.41 | Thunder_Child | durcyn: ok, then why didnt *you* think of that |
| 22:50.42 | Arrowmaster | well im not sure exactly what you are intending to match |
| 22:51.01 | Shirik | It doesn't allow for parentheses and only allows 7 and 10 digit numbers |
| 22:51.09 | Shirik | mine needs to work for all countries |
| 22:51.22 | Shirik | (I use the assumption that a phone number has at least 7 digits) |
| 22:51.29 | Shirik | but what's worse, there's a lot of stuff that ISN'T a phone number |
| 22:51.52 | Arrowmaster | afaik phone numbers are not atleast 7 digits |
| 22:51.53 | Shirik | Like "2009-2010" |
| 22:52.06 | Shirik | ? |
| 22:52.21 | Shirik | I'm not going to bother with anything less than 7 digits |
| 22:52.42 | Cide | lots of local phone numbers here in sweden are 5 digits |
| 22:53.04 | Shirik | well you all suck |
| 22:53.15 | Shirik | but I'm not going to protect you if you can't get a reasonable phone number :P |
| 22:53.49 | Cide | hey Shirik |
| 22:53.53 | Cide | you should build more hellions |
| 22:53.53 | Shirik | hey Cide |
| 22:53.58 | Shirik | hellion? |
| 22:54.03 | Cide | and harass the mineral line |
| 22:54.17 | Arrowmaster | seriously the only way to do what you want and reduce false positives is to strip out all non numbers and then try to validate them based on the country codes |
| 22:54.18 | Cide | first unit in the factory you know |
| 22:54.24 | Shirik | oh really those things? |
| 22:54.31 | Shirik | I thought those things sucked beyond all recognition |
| 22:54.36 | Cide | they don't really |
| 22:54.41 | Cide | I don't think they're great |
| 22:54.43 | Shirik | oh |
| 22:54.46 | Shirik | that's not an option Arrowmaster |
| 22:54.47 | Cide | never really seen them get used tbh |
| 22:54.48 | Shirik | it has to be a regex :( |
| 22:55.00 | Arrowmaster | you can do that with a regex |
| 22:55.02 | Cide | but they're pretty good vs marines and lings |
| 22:55.04 | Shirik | I can? |
| 22:55.05 | Arrowmaster | it will be extremely complex |
| 22:55.06 | Cide | and probes/drones/scvs |
| 22:55.26 | Cide | you don't want to strip out non numbers |
| 22:55.41 | Cide | then you don't know if the person did +46 (0)123 456 |
| 22:55.58 | Arrowmaster | ? |
| 22:55.59 | Cide | and you'd likely want to drop the (0) since that's only used when calling nationally |
| 22:56.19 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: see, this is impossible |
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| 22:57.53 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Legorol] by ChanServ |
| 22:58.10 | Shirik | Cide: I don't really care about that |
| 22:58.16 | Shirik | All I'm looking for is something that looks like a phone number |
| 22:58.32 | Cide | ok then |
| 22:58.36 | Cide | I'm just gonna sit in the corner |
| 22:58.41 | Cide | while you continue not building hellions |
| 22:59.24 | Shirik | how about we play some games |
| 22:59.30 | Cide | not right now |
| 22:59.35 | Cide | in 40 min possibly |
| 22:59.40 | Shirik | then I will not build hellions |
| 22:59.45 | Cide | for 40 min sure |
| 22:59.48 | Cide | BUT AFTER THAT YOU WILL |
| 23:01.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Mr_Rabies (~Mr_Rabies@gort.linode.rosspaffett.com) |
| 23:03.33 | Thunder_Child | is it bad when you sleep through a 4.4 earthquake? |
| 23:03.57 | Shirik | is 4.4 big? |
| 23:04.12 | Gagorian | 4.4 is pretty small |
| 23:04.20 | Gagorian | wait, what were we talking about? |
| 23:04.29 | Thunder_Child | penis sizes |
| 23:04.33 | DWSR | 4.4 is meh |
| 23:04.37 | Thunder_Child | this IS the internet |
| 23:04.53 | Shirik | Here's the earthquakes I've had recently: http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Maps/10/280_30.php |
| 23:05.03 | Shirik | I haven't not felt any of them |
| 23:05.17 | Thunder_Child | thats because there were none |
| 23:05.49 | Gagorian | Indeed |
| 23:06.18 | Shirik | man, Chile is still getting rocked? |
| 23:06.21 | DWSR | No. |
| 23:06.26 | DWSR | People just won't shut up about it |
| 23:06.37 | Shirik | ? |
| 23:07.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Movix (~Movix@mail.schiffmann.fr) |
| 23:07.22 | foxlit | Hm. I haven't been using enough nukes. |
| 23:07.36 | Thunder_Child | make sure to nuke Shirik |
| 23:11.10 | Shirik | new regex |
| 23:11.12 | Shirik | (?<!rev)(?<!revision)(?<!id)([^\d]|^)(\d{7,}|\d[\d\-\s]{6,}\d|\(\d{2,}\)[\d\-\s]{6,}\d)(?<!\d{4}-\d{4})(?<!\d{4}-\d{2}-\d{2})(?<!\d{4}-\d{2}-\d{2} \d{2})([^\d]|$) |
| 23:11.22 | Shirik | Apparently 2010-03-15 07:11 was being detected |
| 23:11.46 | Shirik | this is why regex is evil |
| 23:12.34 | Thunder_Child | regex is fine, it's you with the problem |
| 23:13.09 | Shirik | evil |
| 23:13.13 | Shirik | eeeeeeevvvvvvvilllllllllllllll |
| 23:13.36 | Thunder_Child | prepares a padded room for Shirik |
| 23:13.39 | lantana_ | regex can be evil |
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| 23:25.05 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: just give up on trying to use a single regex |
| 23:25.15 | Shirik | that is unfortunately my only option |
| 23:25.23 | Arrowmaster | why? |
| 23:25.36 | Shirik | I'm not writing the program, just a regex that plugs into a program |
| 23:25.40 | Shirik | it only allows for a single regex |
| 23:26.12 | Arrowmaster | send a comment to the program developers that a single regex is not enough to correctly match many things |
| 23:26.17 | Shirik | heh |
| 23:26.37 | Arrowmaster | id like to see you make a regex for rfc5322 |
| 23:26.45 | Arrowmaster | (hint, its IMPOSSIBLE) |
| 23:28.08 | amro | you know that's just going to make him want to do it |
| 23:28.19 | kd3 | can I cower in fear yet? |
| 23:28.38 | Thunder_Child | great Arrowmaster, i was only joking about the padded room, now you are going to make it a reality |
| 23:32.17 | frontendloader | is that the e-mail header rfc? |
| 23:32.39 | *** join/#wowuidev tlund (~tlund@envy.nxs.se) |
| 23:33.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (~Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 23:34.21 | Arrowmaster | multiple things email related yes |
| 23:34.50 | Arrowmaster | but i was referring specifically to email addresses |
| 23:35.24 | foxlit | Wonder why SC2 sometiems fails to display points lost |
| 23:36.08 | foxlit | Is it because matchmaking is so outrageous that it is basically a freebie? |
| 23:36.11 | Adys | duh |
| 23:36.12 | Adys | because it lost them |
| 23:36.34 | amro | ~rimshot |
| 23:36.35 | purl | badum-TISH! |
| 23:36.56 | amro | you want matchmaking, try okcupid |
| 23:37.03 | amro | they have decent algorithms |
| 23:37.35 | Disconnected | (Connection reset by peer). |
| 23:37.51 | Disconnected | I hate my connection :\ |
| 23:37.54 | Disconnected | more than you amro |
| 23:38.16 | frontendloader | because I've seen *a* regex for it |
| 23:38.34 | amro | it looked more like a cheese grater to me |
| 23:39.19 | frontendloader | it took up an entire screen |
| 23:40.03 | Xyphoid | there was an email regex in the back of the o'reilly regex book, but i think that was for a previou rfc |
| 23:40.05 | Xyphoid | it was a few pages |
| 23:40.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Xuerian (~core@70-32-204-241.unassigned.ntelos.net) |
| 23:40.53 | frontendloader | http://www.ex-parrot.com/pdw/Mail-RFC822-Address.html |
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| 23:41.30 | frontendloader | although Perl copes well: |
| 23:42.10 | Dagmar | Yes, because RFC822 is _far_ too permissive |
| 23:43.09 | amro | I'd like to see a regex actually used by major mail providers |
| 23:43.19 | Dagmar | It allows for far more than just alphanum+freetext@possiblyalphanum.alphanum.foo |
| 23:43.34 | Adys | RFC822 allows comments in email addresses |
| 23:43.35 | Dagmar | ...most of the variant forms of course being spam, and/or attacks |
| 23:44.10 | Dagmar | Adys: And let's not forget _newlines_ *facepalm* |
| 23:44.16 | Adys | yea :/ |
| 23:44.39 | Dagmar | If your email address is so long as to require a newline, I think perhaps someone should be beating the crap out of your admins |
| 23:45.45 | Adys | shadowed you are horrible |
| 23:45.45 | Arrowmaster | rfc822 hasnt been valid for a long time, it was replaced by rfc2822, and that was replaced by rfc5322 |
| 23:46.24 | Arrowmaster | amro: they dont use a single regex |
| 23:46.40 | Cide | and why has email addrs not been revised to be [a-zA-Z.]{3,}@<domain>? |
| 23:46.53 | Arrowmaster | because that sucks? |
| 23:47.00 | Cide | good enough for my purposes |
| 23:47.15 | Arrowmaster | plus not everybody has a name that uses a-z |
| 23:47.38 | Dagmar | Cide: because people like to think they're being clever with such an open-ended RFC |
| 23:47.53 | Arrowmaster | "@"@example.com is a valid email address |
| 23:48.15 | Cide | I know it's a valid email address |
| 23:48.19 | Cide | the point is that it shouldn't be |
| 23:48.25 | Cide | hence it should be revised |
| 23:48.30 | Cide | that was the whole point |
| 23:48.47 | Cide | should be [a-zA-Z0-9.] in my message above |
| 23:48.50 | Dagmar | I dunno about shouldn't be in that case |
| 23:49.05 | Adys | [a-z0-9\.]{3,}(:?\+?[a-z0-9\.]+)@<domain> imo |
| 23:49.08 | Dagmar | If we had more addresses like that, spammers would not have nearly such an easy time scraping nabble |
| 23:49.29 | Cide | eh |
| 23:49.29 | Arrowmaster | Cide: good job you just wiped out some of the best mothods of spam filtering |
| 23:49.45 | Cide | who cares |
| 23:49.49 | Arrowmaster | i care |
| 23:49.55 | Cide | spam filtering = not publishing your email |
| 23:49.59 | Arrowmaster | wrong |
| 23:50.02 | Adys | like its nabble thats really the #1 address spam provider :P |
| 23:50.05 | Cide | and they still get you because they just send to random addresses |
| 23:50.17 | Dagmar | Adys: I can probably blame 3/4 of the spam I get on those fuckers |
| 23:50.19 | Cide | and the benefits > the disadvantages |
| 23:50.21 | Arrowmaster | they get you just because you have an email address |
| 23:50.28 | Dagmar | I rot13'd my goddamn email address in changelogs for MONTHS |
| 23:50.46 | Dagmar | Then Nabble starts mirroring the goddamn Dropline mailing list, in F**KING CLEARTEXT |
| 23:50.58 | Dagmar | *BOOM*. 300% increase in spam overnight. |
| 23:51.52 | Adys | i have... |
| 23:51.52 | Adys | 26 spam mails for the past 30 days |
| 23:51.53 | Adys | thats on an email i cleartext'd a bit everywhere |
| 23:52.04 | Dagmar | "not publishing your email address" is pretty much stupidly impossible if you do opensource dev work |
| 23:52.48 | Arrowmaster | i have one address that hasnt gotten any spam in the last 60 days, im not really sure how |
| 23:53.04 | Dagmar | Probably they've decided it's a spamtrap address |
| 23:53.34 | Dagmar | There another way to do it. |
| 23:53.45 | Dagmar | Cripple BigPond and Telsta |
| 23:53.49 | Dagmar | er Telstra |
| 23:53.57 | Arrowmaster | does google send stuff that fails spf and domainkeys to spam or does it drop it? |
| 23:54.04 | Dagmar | ...and then tell them for the tenth time you don't want any spam from their customers |
| 23:54.55 | Adys | but "having two email addresses" is very possible |
| 23:54.55 | Adys | either way, if your spam filter is good, why should you care about getting spam? |
| 23:55.21 | Dagmar | because people shouldn't have to pay _twice the everything_ just to run freaking email |
| 23:55.34 | Dagmar | ...and it's only progressively getting _worse_ with time |
| 23:55.36 | Adys | Arrowmaster: knowing them, it would go into spam |
| 23:55.55 | Dagmar | In 2000, it was approximately 1/3 of mail was spam. Now it's 1/2. |
| 23:56.24 | Arrowmaster | mines always been 99% |
| 23:56.26 | Dagmar | So, everyone whose company has email, spends double the money on resources _just_ because of spamming not being an execution offense |
| 23:56.50 | Dagmar | My Gmail account gets ~110 spams a day |
| 23:56.52 | Adys | tbh |
| 23:56.57 | Arrowmaster | except for this one account that doesnt seem to be getting any spam |
| 23:57.18 | Adys | I'd like to know what percentage of the world's email is automated non-spam |
| 23:57.21 | Dagmar | It was ~5 a day before Nabble made the dropline mailing list archives completely searchable by freaking robots |
| 23:58.18 | Adys | if 50% of email is, I'd say a good additional 35-40% is automated shit |
| 23:58.33 | amro | facebook |
| 23:58.51 | amro | no I don't care that an acquaintance farted, fuck off with the emails |
| 23:58.56 | Dagmar | Wikipedia is claiming 78% of all email is now spam, which, if it's correct, means companies are now spending four times what they should on email |
| 23:59.09 | Arrowmaster | looking at my 3 gmail accounts, 191 in the spam folder of the real gmail.com account, 405 in the spam folder of the personal domain ive owned for 10 years or so, 0 in the spam folder of the personal domain ive owned for 1 year or so |
| 23:59.34 | Adys | point is, email serves a very different purpose than it was supposed to |
| 23:59.39 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: Spam recieved longer than 30 days ago is automatically deleted |
| 23:59.43 | Arrowmaster | i know |
| 23:59.55 | Dagmar | That's why you're not using >1G of mail just storing spam |
