| 00:03.25 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (~theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 00:12.05 | Jerub | yay, hit 80 on my mage this weekend |
| 00:12.06 | Jerub | :) |
| 00:12.18 | Jerub | i had no idea heroic groups could be so crap. |
| 00:12.22 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 00:12.39 | Jerub | i'm so used to tanking them for the minimum time required to get my frost i had no idea how badly other tanks and dps can behave. |
| 00:15.34 | foxlit | dps live a life of misery |
| 00:15.58 | Jerub | silly things like i didn't even know you could skip two bosses in dtk |
| 00:16.04 | Jerub | because uh.. why would you bother? |
| 00:16.20 | Jerub | and then there was the tank who skipped to the end of OK without bothering to tell the dps warrior how to wallhack |
| 00:18.03 | WobWork | how did you not know the raptor boss was optional =P |
| 00:18.09 | WobWork | You have to go out of your way to fight him =P |
| 00:18.27 | Jerub | WobWork: i've never skipped him! |
| 00:18.28 | foxlit | But he's like... right there! |
| 00:18.30 | Jerub | until today! |
| 00:18.47 | WobWork | and you just turn to the left and don't stop running =P |
| 00:18.51 | Jerub | he's also an awesome source of leather |
| 00:19.05 | WobWork | Jerub: people actually slow down enough for skinning? =P |
| 00:19.20 | WobWork | (although I totally did that as the tank) |
| 00:19.21 | Jerub | WobWork: it's amazing what you can get away withwhen you hvae blues and greens |
| 00:19.25 | Jerub | "oh he's just crap dps" |
| 00:19.37 | Jerub | not, "oh god he's running back for that raptor he missed" |
| 00:19.45 | WobWork | My enh shammy can push out some great dps single target |
| 00:19.54 | WobWork | it's a pity there's not much now that -is- single target =P |
| 00:20.31 | Jerub | WobWork: i dunno, i'm comfortable just doing single target arcane dps on multiple targets |
| 00:20.35 | ZorbaTHut | wob, raid bosses |
| 00:20.39 | DWSR | Just killed 24/24 in a ToC25 with Path of Frost. |
| 00:20.50 | Jerub | DWSR: you are an evil person. |
| 00:21.00 | Jerub | DWSR: did you get a capture of it? |
| 00:21.05 | ZorbaTHut | it's kind of odd that raiding and heroics are constantly diverging. heroics are moving inexorably towards aoe, raiding is sticking around in the single-target dps world |
| 00:21.27 | Jerub | oooh, and i fought yogg yesterday! |
| 00:21.29 | DWSR | Jerub: Unfortunately not. |
| 00:21.37 | DWSR | Jerub: It was pretty fucking funny though |
| 00:21.53 | Jerub | that was awesome. a friend just got back into wow recently and never finished ulduar, so he's running uld raids with a bunch of massively overgeared people. |
| 00:22.07 | Jerub | icc raid geared guys in uld10 is fun |
| 00:22.20 | *** join/#wowuidev cncfanatics (~cncfanati@WoWUIDev/cncfanatics) |
| 00:23.15 | foxlit | # ... giant button marked "Push me to escalate war" |
| 00:23.24 | Jerub | DWSR: i got a guildmate doing it on video once. |
| 00:23.44 | Jerub | i went insane and killed a whole bunch of people too |
| 00:23.46 | Jerub | that was awesome. |
| 00:23.58 | Jerub | too bad after 4 hours of raiding people didn't have enough focus to do the yogg fight :/ |
| 00:24.13 | Jerub | "oh, you're NOT supposed to stand in the green clouds?" |
| 00:26.08 | ZorbaTHut | this is why I always aim my camera straight down in toc25 and AN |
| 00:26.44 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: didn't work for me :( |
| 00:27.22 | Jerub | oh, and what was /awesome/ was seeing the raidleader do 3 pages of making of abyss crystals. |
| 00:27.29 | Jerub | all that delicious once-useful loot |
| 00:28.33 | ZorbaTHut | surprised there wasn't a good deal grabbed for offspecs |
| 00:29.03 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: yeah, me too a bit, but considering these guys all have toc25 on farm now :/ |
| 00:30.18 | Jerub | there's been big arguments on trade this week, "LFM toc25 [Death's Choice] is reserved" "... but DC is the only reason to go to toc25 anymore!" |
| 00:30.50 | Shirik | btw Cide |
| 00:30.52 | Shirik | you know |
| 00:31.00 | Shirik | I had like 7-8 starports and still ended with 11k minerals? |
| 00:31.18 | foxlit | That's not surprising |
| 00:31.18 | DWSR | Jerub: Err....Reign of the Unliving? |
| 00:31.50 | foxlit | Starports are mostly gas-limited. |
| 00:32.29 | Shirik | ok well I had about 7k gas |
| 00:32.36 | Shirik | thing is I had like 5 bases |
| 00:32.48 | foxlit | What's wrong with you? :) |
| 00:32.57 | Shirik | I needed resources! |
| 00:32.58 | Shirik | well |
| 00:32.59 | Shirik | I thought I did |
| 00:33.15 | Shirik | funny thing is |
| 00:33.19 | foxlit | It's a good game when I get to build an expansion. |
| 00:33.21 | Shirik | my air never even made an attack, I was about to |
| 00:33.22 | Shirik | but |
| 00:33.33 | Shirik | Cide just sent in a billion zealots instead |
| 00:33.34 | Shirik | and they left |
| 00:33.44 | Jerub | i actually won games this weekend. |
| 00:33.47 | Shirik | yay! |
| 00:33.54 | foxlit | Streak of 9. Cheers, matchmaking |
| 00:34.06 | Jerub | i don't think i was actually rushing, i don't think it counts as a rush if you have marines and maruders backed up by medivacs. |
| 00:34.51 | WobWork | http://twitter.com/DRUNKHULK/status/10479767448 |
| 00:34.54 | WobWork | <3 drunkhulk |
| 00:34.58 | Arrowmaster | wants sc2 beta |
| 00:35.46 | foxlit | Jerub: depends. |
| 00:35.51 | foxlit | Are you rushing to medivacs? |
| 00:36.25 | Jerub | foxlit: I don't really know what that means. |
| 00:36.36 | Jerub | i build my forces and by the time i have medivacs, i attack |
| 00:36.45 | foxlit | The question is what you do with your gas. |
| 00:37.01 | foxlit | You could go Factory -> Starport early |
| 00:37.11 | foxlit | Or you could get some tech before then |
| 00:37.52 | Cidwel | how terribly is to start to know how could be better to use lua design instead of xml |
| 00:38.46 | DWSR | Cidwel: You'll notice that all of the really popular addons don't use any XML. |
| 00:39.13 | Cidwel | derp |
| 00:39.34 | foxlit | Basically, Stim Packs + Combat Shields == Factory + Starport + Medivac in gas costs. |
| 00:40.06 | Jerub | i don't use stim packs... should i? |
| 00:40.10 | DWSR | yes |
| 00:40.11 | Cidwel | yes |
| 00:40.18 | foxlit | You very definitely should |
| 00:40.39 | Cidwel | It is one of the very best abilities of the terrans |
| 00:40.47 | DWSR | 6^ |
| 00:40.59 | Jerub | sigh, the things you learn |
| 00:41.17 | foxlit | Even without medivacs, stims are totally worthwhile |
| 00:41.32 | ScytheBlade1 | just ask shirik |
| 00:41.33 | Cidwel | you would win a protos attack with that |
| 00:41.37 | Shirik | I know everything |
| 00:41.43 | ScytheBlade1 | what stimpacks did to his battlecruisers |
| 00:41.49 | Jerub | how do i look at the tooltips without runnign sc2? |
| 00:41.57 | Shirik | Also, I have determined that carriers kinda suck |
| 00:41.59 | Jerub | where's sc2head.com? |
| 00:42.21 | Jerub | Shirik: why do carriers + mothership rape me every time with terran vs protoss? |
| 00:42.23 | foxlit | Haven't seen many carriers. |
| 00:42.28 | Jerub | (if i let them get to carriers) |
| 00:42.33 | foxlit | Jerub: I think that's because you turtle. |
| 00:42.35 | Shirik | Jerub: Get a few vikings and focus on the carriers, you'll have no problem |
| 00:42.55 | Shirik | I really think carriers need a defense boost |
| 00:43.13 | foxlit | Nah. Vikings are supposed to counter heavy air |
| 00:43.23 | foxlit | They get eaten by mutalisks to compensate. |
| 00:43.27 | Shirik | heh |
| 00:43.28 | Shirik | true |
| 00:43.35 | Shirik | but so does everything else o.o |
| 00:44.04 | foxlit | [Vikings are also awesome for taking out battlecruisers.] |
| 00:44.30 | Shirik | I think I'm never making BCs again |
| 00:44.40 | Jerub | i've never succesfully fielded a BC |
| 00:44.41 | Shirik | I have experienced childhood trauma |
| 00:44.51 | Jerub | foxlit: i have been turtling less |
| 00:44.58 | Shirik | Jerub: I have to admit |
| 00:45.01 | foxlit | So has everyone, probably. |
| 00:45.03 | Shirik | ever since ScytheBlade1 convinced me to be more aggressive |
| 00:45.05 | Shirik | and not defensive |
| 00:45.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Trela (~Alexia@user-24-214-136-218.knology.net) |
| 00:45.14 | Shirik | my abilities have improved immensely |
| 00:46.16 | Jerub | the limit of my turtling is now to build supply depots accross the entrance of my base and then to build attack forces |
| 00:46.26 | Jerub | i don't build towers or bunkers anymore |
| 00:46.32 | foxlit | baaad |
| 00:46.42 | foxlit | I find that I don't build enough towers. |
| 00:46.45 | Jerub | but i still get nailed if protoss go for early air. |
| 00:46.59 | foxlit | Jerub: more marines. |
| 00:47.07 | Shirik | 3aa4d |
| 00:47.08 | Jerub | foxlit: do you use a reactor barracks? |
| 00:47.09 | Shirik | 3aa4d |
| 00:47.17 | Shirik | 2 barracks, one teched, one reactor |
| 00:47.21 | foxlit | Jerub: yes. |
| 00:47.21 | Jerub | yeah, i do that |
| 00:47.26 | Shirik | one with reactor is #3, one teched is #4 |
| 00:47.28 | Shirik | 3aa4d |
| 00:47.35 | Shirik | over and over and over again |
| 00:47.39 | foxlit | In fact, I see your 2 barracks and raise you to three baracks. |
| 00:47.51 | Shirik | I have occasionally gone to a third |
| 00:48.00 | Shirik | but generally by that point I decide to get some tanks or something |
| 00:48.02 | foxlit | Occasionally going to a forth |
| 00:48.08 | Shirik | never gotten afourth |
| 00:48.41 | foxlit | Need it for those pesky situations when you see a horde of mutalisks and you've already committed your legion of marines to demolishing some far-away base. |
| 00:48.51 | foxlit | My tier 2 transition sucks :/ |
| 00:49.17 | Jerub | foxlit: i find if a tier 2 transition occurs, i die. |
| 00:49.22 | Jerub | so i have to end the game before that |
| 00:49.49 | foxlit | In that it does not exist. Tend to go infantry -> air, skipping tanks. |
| 00:50.00 | foxlit | Which seriously bites versus competent terran. |
| 00:51.02 | foxlit | Since those siedge tanks practically eat my infantry alive :( |
| 00:51.51 | Shirik | yup |
| 00:52.02 | Shirik | I grab tanks when I realize that the other guy is massing ground units |
| 00:52.41 | Shirik | otherwise my thought process is as follows: If the enemy is massing mutas, get thors, otherwise, try to grab some banshees and control the economy |
| 00:52.49 | Shirik | If you can control the economy, you win |
| 00:52.51 | foxlit | thors? mutas? |
| 00:52.54 | Shirik | yup |
| 00:53.10 | Shirik | thors have a splash that is quite helpful |
| 00:53.27 | foxlit | They're slow as heck. |
| 00:53.36 | Shirik | they're not used for offensive |
| 00:53.40 | Shirik | just defensive |
| 00:53.51 | Shirik | like in the matrix #3 |
| 00:53.56 | Shirik | that's thors vs mutas |
| 00:54.06 | foxlit | My intuition says that's a colossal waste of resources. |
| 00:54.18 | Shirik | (20:32:36) (@Shirik) thing is I had like 5 bases |
| 00:54.29 | Shirik | (20:52:48) (@Shirik) If you can control the economy, you win |
| 00:54.56 | foxlit | Cause and effect might be reversed there. |
| 00:55.00 | Shirik | what do you propose against mutas? |
| 00:55.25 | foxlit | You're able to control economy because you've already won; you're just too lazy to march your units over to your opponent's base :) |
| 00:55.33 | Shirik | nah |
| 00:55.43 | Shirik | I don't have enough to win, just enough to keep the economy in check |
| 00:55.44 | foxlit | Marines. |
| 00:55.52 | Shirik | ah marines are good too |
| 00:55.53 | Shirik | yeah |
| 00:55.55 | Shirik | But I always have marines |
| 00:56.02 | Shirik | 3aa4d |
| 00:56.06 | Shirik | the entire game |
| 00:56.42 | Shirik | ok I have to go eat before Cide kills me |
| 01:06.58 | DWSR | So guys |
| 01:07.03 | DWSR | Rotface or Festergut, who's easier? |
| 01:08.02 | Adys | jnwhiteh: ping |
| 01:09.02 | foxlit | Just on normal? |
| 01:09.54 | foxlit | Festergut has a hard enrage; Rotface has a soft enrage. Festergut mechanics are probably easier. |
| 01:10.11 | DWSR | lol |
| 01:10.16 | DWSR | My RL is like "Rotface is a lot easier" |
| 01:10.37 | Adys | he is if your raid has shit gear or doesnt know how to dps |
| 01:11.31 | foxlit | But is otherwise confident in its abilities to dispel diseases, not stand in crap, run to tanks, and so on. |
| 01:12.18 | DWSR | rofl |
| 01:15.35 | DWSR | So it's safe to say the Rotface is harder than Festergut, amirite? |
| 01:16.20 | Adys | yea |
| 01:16.34 | ZorbaTHut | according to http://www.wowprogress.com/, 1000 guilds more have defeated Festergut than Rotface. |
| 01:16.37 | ZorbaTHut | So yes, I'd say Rotface is harder. |
| 01:17.02 | ZorbaTHut | Curiously, Festergut Hardmode seems to be substantially harder than Rotface Hardmode. |
| 01:18.24 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: i thought you were on a backwater server with crappy raiders, and you're doing icc hardmodes? |
| 01:18.44 | ZorbaTHut | no, I'm looking at the global stats on the page I linked ;) |
| 01:18.48 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: hah |
| 01:18.51 | ZorbaTHut | I've done precisely one boss in ICC, I'm not really raiding anymore |
| 01:19.10 | Jerub | i've only ever done festergut, and we always hit the enrage. |
| 01:20.58 | foxlit | Festergut is a harder gear check. |
| 01:21.04 | foxlit | Rotface is a harder coordination check. |
| 01:21.23 | DWSR | Oh guys |
| 01:21.34 | DWSR | Apparently, yelling "pulling" in vent before pulling Stinky counts as a ninja pull. |
| 01:21.34 | foxlit | Festergut heroic adds in more awareness requirements with the malleable goo. |
| 01:22.04 | ZorbaTHut | foxlit, says a lot about the kind of people trying easy modes and hard modes, really |
| 01:22.20 | foxlit | mm? |
| 01:22.54 | foxlit | It may well be a self-perpetuating problem: |
| 01:22.56 | ZorbaTHut | more people have killed fester than rot in easy mode, more people have killed rot than fester in hard mode. |
| 01:23.04 | foxlit | "Oh look, only 5 guilds killed this boss! It's too hard for us" |
| 01:23.58 | Stanzilla | rotface hardmode is like gunship hardmode..free loot |
| 01:25.13 | Adys | SHADOWED PING |
| 01:25.25 | Adys | dammit usually it works |
| 01:25.38 | Jerub | gunship on normal mode is so easy i put my RL on /follow and went to drop the wife into the city and pick up dinner |
| 01:25.44 | Jerub | when i came back they were setting up for saurfang. |
| 01:26.05 | Jerub | Adys: try this. |
| 01:26.10 | Jerub | SHADOWED ICMP TYPE 8 |
| 01:28.51 | Gnarfoz | Jerub: but what code! |
| 01:28.59 | DWSR | yeah, I just gquit the guild whose RL says that Rotface is easier than Festergut. |
| 01:29.02 | DWSR | I made sure to wipe the raid first. |
| 01:29.21 | Gnarfoz | thanks for confirming again that you're a moron. ;p |
| 01:29.21 | DWSR | And by "made sure to wipe the raid" I mean "ninja pull Stinky" |
| 01:29.27 | DWSR | Meaning I yelled "Stinky inc" |
| 01:29.31 | DWSR | Then waited 2 seconds. |
| 01:29.33 | DWSR | Then pulled. |
| 01:30.03 | ZorbaTHut | so . . . basically, you're a douche? |
| 01:32.30 | Adys | is something new? |
| 01:33.38 | Jerub | Gnarfoz: does anything look at the code for icmp type 8? i didn't think that field mattered. |
| 01:38.33 | Kraps | http://www.wowhead.com/?forums&topic=148334&p=1913131 |
| 01:41.25 | ZorbaTHut | kraps, the sad part is that it's kind of an ineffective troll just because nobody has any trouble believing it happened |
| 01:43.39 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: i just love scrolling down so i can lol at stuff like "Trolls, there stupidity never stops to astound me." |
| 01:44.50 | ZorbaTHut | I know someone who broke up with his GF of a year because she told him he wasn't perfect |
| 01:45.09 | ZorbaTHut | I'm not really exaggerating this either |
| 01:45.39 | ZorbaTHut | guy> Man, those guys told me I might be wrong about something? can you believe that? girl> well uh you might actually be wrong once in a while guy> BREAKING UP WITH YOU, SULKING FOR TWO MONTHS STRAIGHT |
| 01:45.52 | ZorbaTHut | compared to that, the troll is just :| |
| 01:58.48 | Jerub | what exactly is apple's relationship with blizzard? |
| 01:58.55 | Jerub | they seem far to friendly for far too long :/ |
| 01:59.38 | Corrodias | i don't like the sound of that |
| 01:59.51 | ZorbaTHut | I think it's "blizzard makes games for our platform, so we want them to keep doing so" |
| 02:00.02 | ZorbaTHut | it wouldn't entirely surprise me if the relationship normalized a bit in the next year thanks to Steam |
| 02:00.02 | Corrodias | i wouldn't have trouble seeing apple and activision being buddies |
| 02:00.44 | Jerub | did you see the "zomg jailbreaking bad" iphone authenticator update? |
| 02:02.30 | sylvaan | wow sleep can be such a tease |
| 02:03.17 | sylvanaar | seriously - asleep at 9:30 back up at 10 - what is that? |
| 02:05.28 | Corrodias | no, Jerub, tell us |
| 02:15.18 | batrick | hello friends |
| 02:16.33 | Jerub | everyone who has an iphone or ipod touch gets this now: |
| 02:16.43 | Jerub | This warning message is being issued by Blizzard Entertainment as a reminder that running the Battle.net Mobile Authenticator on a âjailbrokenâ iPhone or iPod touch could potentially compromise the security of the Mobile Authenticator application. If your iPhone or iPod touch has not been âjailbrokenâ or modified to bypass software restrictions, please click âOKâ and you will no longer receive the warning. |
| 02:17.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan (~pancake@cpe-174-098-002-214.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 02:17.30 | Iriel | Android has more or less the same warning somewhere |
| 02:17.32 | Jerub | so it's operating on the honor system, only people who aren't dirty filthy thieves stealing their own hardware device to run their own software are allowed to click 'okay' |
| 02:17.45 | Jerub | everyone else has to stay nagged |
| 02:17.58 | ScytheBlade1 | wonders if that is why his droid always bugs him |
| 02:18.11 | ScytheBlade1 | re-roots his droid and removes said file |
| 02:18.17 | batrick | hi |
| 02:18.22 | batrick | mt |
| 02:25.28 | Jerub | i hate that kind fo thing so much |
| 02:27.01 | ScytheBlade1 | holy crap that was it |
| 02:27.15 | ScytheBlade1 | the difference is that the nag screen on the droid is ALWAYS there if it is rooted |
| 02:27.39 | Arrowmaster | ? |
| 02:27.49 | ScytheBlade1 | if you root your droid and use the mobile authenticator |
| 02:27.57 | ScytheBlade1 | There is a nag screen about security of the app on a rooted device |
| 02:28.03 | ScytheBlade1 | You press okay, and it goes on |
| 02:28.07 | Arrowmaster | how does it know its rooted? |
| 02:28.09 | ScytheBlade1 | But the screen reappears every time you click okay |
| 02:28.20 | ScytheBlade1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:28.38 | Arrowmaster | thats a dirty trick |
| 02:29.07 | Arrowmaster | is there a sudo for android that you can use instead of su? |
| 02:29.09 | Corrodias | congratulations, activision/blizzard, you apple whores |
| 02:29.22 | Arrowmaster | doesnt like su |
| 02:29.25 | ScytheBlade1 | why the crap do people even like sudo |
| 02:29.27 | ScytheBlade1 | blasphemers |
| 02:29.30 | Corrodias | less and less enthusiastic about this company all the time |
| 02:29.50 | DWSR | SB1: Security? |
| 02:29.54 | Arrowmaster | ScytheBlade1: because i can do sudo -s |
| 02:30.09 | ScytheBlade1 | http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=sudo+exploit |
| 02:30.51 | ScytheBlade1 | It does not have a good track record |
| 02:31.27 | Arrowmaster | i dont use sudo like that |
| 02:31.58 | ScytheBlade1 | That's great, you've still been vulnerable to a sudo priv escalation exploit within the last month |
| 02:31.59 | Arrowmaster | i just use sudo like su, except its better |
| 02:32.08 | Arrowmaster | ScytheBlade1: how so? |
| 02:32.14 | ScytheBlade1 | ec |
| 02:32.15 | ScytheBlade1 | *sec |
| 02:32.42 | ScytheBlade1 | http://lwn.net/Articles/377880/ |
| 02:33.57 | ScytheBlade1 | "sudoedit option can possibly allow for arbitrary code |
| 02:33.58 | ScytheBlade1 | execution" |
| 02:35.08 | Legorol | what is "rerooting a droid"? |
| 02:35.41 | ScytheBlade1 | my droid was rooted, and then I updated it to 2.0.1 which tweaked the permissions on the su binary that it installs to disable it from executing |
| 02:35.53 | ScytheBlade1 | but the su binary was still present, so the authenticator thought it was rooted |
| 02:35.55 | Legorol | let me rephrase :) what is "rotting a droid" |
| 02:36.00 | ScytheBlade1 | re-rooting |
| 02:36.00 | Legorol | *rooting |
| 02:36.11 | ScytheBlade1 | I had to re-root it to remove it |
| 02:36.22 | Legorol | i don't even know what "rooting" it is, |
| 02:36.25 | Legorol | that's what i meant |
| 02:36.30 | ScytheBlade1 | Getting root access |
| 02:36.30 | Jerub | WobWork: what's your watchful at? |
| 02:36.35 | Arrowmaster | ScytheBlade1: see on debian we dont have to worry about this kinda stuff because things like sudo are configured with higher security standards by default, sudo ./sudoedit would never work with a default debian sudo |
| 02:37.04 | ScytheBlade1 | http://www.vupen.com/english/advisories/2010/0513 |
| 02:37.08 | ScytheBlade1 | Arrowmaster: see above |
| 02:37.36 | Legorol | ScytheBlade1: could you explain for a layman what "rooting a droid" means? (i don't mean rerooting, but rooting in the first place, if that question even makes sense) |
| 02:38.06 | ScytheBlade1 | It means getting root access to a Droid phone. You aren't supposed to have that access. |
| 02:38.09 | Arrowmaster | ScytheBlade1: cant see the technical details because site is fucking retarded |
| 02:39.03 | Jerub | Legorol: on a droid phone it's trivial to get a linux shell prompt, but that shell prompt doesn't have root access |
| 02:39.11 | Jerub | 'rooting' one means obtaining that access. |
| 02:39.17 | Legorol | ok |
| 02:39.21 | Legorol | and how do you do it? |
| 02:39.21 | Jerub | on the nexus one it's a menu option where you click, "okay, void my warranty" |
| 02:39.24 | ScytheBlade1 | http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=262454 |
| 02:39.32 | Jerub | on the other phones you install a piece of software that does it. |
| 02:39.36 | ScytheBlade1 | http://lists.debian.org/debian-security-announce/2010/msg00046.html |
| 02:39.39 | ScytheBlade1 | I could go on |
| 02:39.49 | ScytheBlade1 | Jerub: the n1 is the ONLY phone that has that button. ONLY. |
| 02:40.04 | Arrowmaster | sbo: thats from 2004 |
| 02:40.06 | ScytheBlade1 | s/phone/android phone/ |
| 02:40.22 | ScytheBlade1 | Arrowmaster: check the second link... from 2010 |
| 02:40.27 | Jerub | ScytheBlade1: yeah, i know. but uh, don't care... |
| 02:40.45 | ScytheBlade1 | Jerub: just trying to explain why.. |
| 02:40.54 | Arrowmaster | ScytheBlade1: yes, i dont use the runas_default option |
| 02:41.27 | ScytheBlade1 | Arrowmaster: that's great, it's a security bug and only one of many that has been present in sudo. |
| 02:41.31 | ScytheBlade1 | pats su lovingly |
| 02:41.51 | Arrowmaster | like i said i only use sudo as a su replacement because it doesnt piss me off like su does |
| 02:42.01 | ScytheBlade1 | Why does su piss you off? |
| 02:42.03 | Arrowmaster | i dont use it to delegate access control |
| 02:42.19 | Arrowmaster | because i dont want to have to copy all my settings to two users |
| 02:42.30 | ScytheBlade1 | wait. what? |
| 02:42.34 | ScytheBlade1 | You mean env vars? |
| 02:42.42 | Jerub | heh, sudo with env vars. |
| 02:42.49 | Arrowmaster | no dot files |
| 02:43.03 | Jerub | they basically edited their history to remove the PTYHON_PATH incident. |
| 02:43.30 | Legorol | Jerub: ty for explanation |
| 02:43.48 | Arrowmaster | if i use su - then i have no shell aliases or any other settings |
| 02:44.55 | ScytheBlade1 | su -m - |
| 02:44.57 | ScytheBlade1 | bam. |
| 02:45.14 | ScytheBlade1 | well |
| 02:45.15 | ScytheBlade1 | su -ml |
| 02:45.18 | ScytheBlade1 | would be shorter, same thing |
| 02:45.28 | *** join/#wowuidev digmouse|work (~chatzilla@124.205.157.50) |
| 02:46.11 | Arrowmaster | oh yeah i cant even test that to see if it changes my prompt or not |
| 02:46.26 | Arrowmaster | since there is no root password set on my system |
| 02:46.39 | ScytheBlade1 | that would be a problem in testing, indeed |
| 02:48.14 | Arrowmaster | actually su -m alone would be more like how i use sudo -s |
| 02:48.52 | ScytheBlade1 | most of my hatred towards sudo is related to people who have no idea what it actually does, but still manage to run linux |
| 02:48.56 | ScytheBlade1 | (looking at you, ubuntu!) |
| 02:49.07 | ScytheBlade1 | "That command didn't work, I guess that means I need to sudo it." |
| 02:49.10 | Arrowmaster | https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=567337 |
| 02:49.17 | Arrowmaster | that amuses me |
| 02:49.48 | Arrowmaster | you would never let a user run vim with sudo if you actually wanted to limit their access |
| 02:50.08 | ScytheBlade1 | indeed\ |
| 02:50.11 | ScytheBlade1 | s/\// |
| 02:52.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Ginji (~Ginji@cc1040670-a.gorre1.fr.home.nl) |
| 02:52.14 | ScytheBlade1 | I was trying to walk a guy through configuring a wifi NIC on the CLI over the phone |
| 02:52.38 | ScytheBlade1 | I said "open a root shell" and he had no idea wtf I was talking about |
| 02:52.42 | ScytheBlade1 | so I got him to a root shell |
| 02:52.51 | ScytheBlade1 | and he still ran EVERYTHING through sudo |
| 02:53.42 | Arrowmaster | i tend to run things over sudo instead of using sudo -s to open a root shell |
| 02:53.48 | ScytheBlade1 | why? |
| 02:54.01 | Arrowmaster | because i dont know what im going to do next usually |
| 02:54.10 | Corrodias | because it's fun to type |
| 02:54.31 | ScytheBlade1 | my other big problem with sudo is that it blurs the line between a normal user and the root user |
| 02:55.22 | ScytheBlade1 | easier to say "oh hey don't type rm -rf / into this box" when it is showing a different user and a different shell symbol |
| 02:55.29 | ScytheBlade1 | sudo, all you ever see is your user with the standard $ |
| 02:56.49 | Arrowmaster | % |
| 02:56.57 | ScytheBlade1 | whatever you're using |
| 02:57.44 | ScytheBlade1 | point is you can't tell a root shell ("do what you're told, period") from a user shell ("do whatever I can, which is actually not much") |
| 02:57.50 | ScytheBlade1 | because they're the same thing |
| 03:02.35 | ScytheBlade1 | afk sleep |
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| 03:12.17 | *** join/#wowuidev bleeter (~bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 03:59.38 | Dagmar | ScytheBlade1: sudo doesn't blur that line. Telling people "just put this magic word in front of what you want to do" without sitting them down and _making_ them learn about uids and permissions is what blurs that line |
| 03:59.58 | Dagmar | They generally have not a damn clue about environment inheritance, and the role of uids/gids in it |
| 04:00.04 | Jerub | Dagmar: what about the stupid grammar for the /etc/sudoers file :/ |
| 04:00.16 | Dagmar | Blame the people at CWRU (IIRC) for that one |
| 04:00.32 | Dagmar | When I want a root shell I just su - up and remember to _drop privs_ when I'm done |
| 04:00.42 | WobWork | rawr |
| 04:00.47 | Dagmar | How do you do that? Oh... setting `fortune -o` in the root login rc file does it pretty well |
| 04:00.48 | WobWork | bow chikka wakka chikka |
| 04:00.53 | Dagmar | You only open those in front of mixed company a few times |
| 04:00.54 | Dagmar | heheh |
| 04:01.13 | Jerub | is there any way i can throw my armory profile at a tool and get told what instances I should run for gear upgrades? |
| 04:01.19 | Dagmar | For me the last time I did it casually was on a freaking 20ft projection screen in front of about fifty people |
| 04:01.24 | WobWork | Jerub: ICC5man =) |
| 04:01.31 | Jerub | it's pretty simple, just requires mashing together some interestingly disparate datasets. |
| 04:01.35 | *** join/#wowuidev digmouse|work_ (~chatzilla@124.205.157.50) |
| 04:01.45 | Dagmar | A classic penis limerick promptly popped up in letters a foot tall |
| 04:01.59 | WobWork | Dagmar: was it in the ascii art of a penis? |
| 04:02.01 | Jerub | WobWork: yes, i understand that, but i don't want to say, for instance, run icc5mans on heroic religiously only to find out my T9 pieces are better. |
| 04:02.16 | Dagmar | No, it was actually an obscene limerick in the fortune cookies file |
| 04:02.19 | WobWork | Jerub: well, you'll be getting the badges to get your T9 |
| 04:02.22 | WobWork | while running ICC |
| 04:02.32 | Jerub | WobWork: there's that. but i'll get them faster by running non-icc instances. |
| 04:02.41 | Jerub | hence my interest in this line of inquiry! |
| 04:02.44 | WobWork | Chain-visit Gundrak |
| 04:02.51 | Dagmar | Jerub: I put everything into Rawr |
| 04:03.00 | Jerub | Dagmar: hm, i've gotta get that running :/ |
| 04:03.08 | WobWork | Dagmar: wouldn't it suggest raid gear? |
| 04:03.17 | ZorbaTHut | jerub, rawr does a pretty good job |
| 04:03.34 | ZorbaTHut | jam your gear in, uncheck all the gear sources, check everything you want to think about running, see what it says |
| 04:04.20 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: but it doesn't run on mono beyond a certain version, so i haven't run it succesffully yet. |
| 04:04.32 | Jerub | will fiddle again tonight |
| 04:04.39 | Dagmar | WobWork: It doesn't really suggest so much as it does a whole crapload of math |
| 04:04.40 | ZorbaTHut | ah, pity |
| 04:05.06 | Dagmar | ANy aggregate benefit from say a raid-wide 3% DPS increase buff it could give to craps about beyond that it raises _your_ DPS by 3% |
| 04:05.21 | Dagmar | It's not perfect, but it gets the numbers close enough that one can manually push a few pieces around |
| 04:07.34 | Dagmar | You can have it do a brute-force analysis of _all_ the gear you have, and it'll generally do a decent job of telling you how to max stats with it |
| 04:07.47 | Dagmar | If you wanna tell it you have gear you don't have yet--that's cool too |
| 04:08.15 | Dagmar | Either way, once you're into post-80 gear the list of what's available is _really_ short, so you can just walk it's lists (sorted by contribution) one at a time, per piece |
| 04:11.04 | WobWork | you could probably do it through wowhead |
| 04:11.10 | Jerub | Dagmar: yeah, i'm just after a way to do it quickly |
| 04:11.46 | Jerub | save me going through with vim and wowhead for an hour comparing stuff |
| 04:11.49 | Dagmar | Depending on how uber your gear is, Rawr is probably it |
| 04:11.59 | Jerub | ^ |
| 04:12.24 | Jerub | i just popped 80 on my mage and i've still got 2 greens |
| 04:13.15 | DWSR | Rawr's a piece of shit. |
| 04:13.17 | Dagmar | Before I had my badge gear maxed out, I just told Rawr to hide raid gear--voila, very short list of what I should be spending for badge gear |
| 04:13.30 | DWSR | More accurately, Rawr's Warlock model is a piece of shit. |
| 04:13.38 | DWSR | It is most certainly incorrect. |
| 04:13.51 | Dagmar | DWSR: I won't really argue that because several of the models are a bit crazy, but it's in .NET and not that hard to hack on |
| 04:15.26 | Dagmar | Warlocks have an insane number of conditionals tho |
| 04:15.43 | Dagmar | I thought I was bad off theorycrafting my hunter and his procs |
| 04:15.49 | DWSR | You have an insane number of Conditionals. |
| 04:15.50 | Dagmar | past tense |
| 04:15.59 | Mr_Rabies | back when i used rawr i think it was exclusively for feral druids |
| 04:16.22 | Dagmar | There's like twenny different models in it now, in various states of accuracy |
| 04:17.07 | Dagmar | The thing is tho, even when it's numbers for BM hunters were completely laughably wrong (some revisions were too high, some revisions were jaw-droppingly low) it was still getting the sorted lists right |
| 04:17.10 | Dagmar | So I stuck with it |
| 04:17.13 | Jerub | according to a guy on trade i only care about spellpower and haste. |
| 04:17.31 | Dagmar | Does haste make dots tick faster? |
| 04:17.53 | batrick | pretty sure it does |
| 04:18.07 | Dagmar | Oh wait yah that was part of the issue with haste and volley |
| 04:18.21 | Jerub | Dagmar: dunno about dots. it doesn't help with hots |
| 04:18.28 | Jerub | (except with gorr) |
| 04:18.33 | Dagmar | I've got no haste on my 65 lock, but he's got like ~650 bonus spell damage |
| 04:18.51 | Dagmar | ...and generally about as much freaking HP as the tank |
| 04:19.27 | Dagmar | We three manned slave pens last night and I had a brief moment of glory doing the "everyone scream and run in circles" thing |
| 04:19.46 | Dagmar | Jus' pouring numbers from bar to bar back and forth the wohle time |
| 04:21.01 | Dagmar | If I can get some damn khorium it's only getting better. :) |
| 04:21.47 | Jerub | you should be through the 60s into northrend soon anyway. |
| 04:22.25 | Dagmar | I did something different that I can't put my finger on with my DK. By the point I am on with the 'lock in Zangarmarsh, it was time to go to Northrend |
| 04:22.47 | Dagmar | Ah needs to get that khorium and make anotehr hat tho. Engineering is nice |
| 04:26.36 | Dagmar | I loves me some explosives |
| 04:27.51 | DWSR | Jerub: For a mage? You only care about spellpower and haste. |
| 04:28.12 | DWSR | Dagmar: Yeah, BoA's + rested XP. I didn't make it through Zangarmarsh before 68 |
| 04:28.13 | Dagmar | I'd say sp, int, and haste |
| 04:28.15 | DWSR | no |
| 04:28.17 | DWSR | SP haste. |
| 04:28.21 | DWSR | Int's a non-factor. |
| 04:28.38 | Dagmar | DWSR: I have the 10% shoulders on my lock, but I think I just lagged until 60 before I took the DK to Outlands |
| 04:31.28 | Jerub | NR questing before 70 sucks because you can't get into most of the NR gear and everything is just that much more powerful than you. |
| 04:31.31 | Jerub | (esp as a mage) |
| 04:31.35 | Jerub | never had much problem as a drood |
| 04:31.55 | Dagmar | I think at this point it would *take* some serious mobs to bring down my 'lock. |
| 04:32.00 | Dagmar | I'm soloing elites two levels above m |
| 04:32.01 | Dagmar | e |
| 04:32.11 | Jerub | yeah, but that's OL elites. |
| 04:32.27 | Jerub | i soloed every group quest in OL except the durn the hungerer one. |
| 04:32.40 | Dagmar | Good |
| 04:32.56 | Jerub | (and then i went back and killed his ass after i got to 80) |
| 04:33.05 | Jerub | (several times, for the fun of it) |
| 04:33.09 | Dagmar | Hehe yeah |
| 04:33.24 | Dagmar | I had him sneak up on me while I was trawling for leather on my hunter |
| 04:37.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Random (~Denial@unaffiliated/windaria) |
| 04:38.55 | DWSR | Jerub: The elites in NR are easier, I think |
| 04:39.00 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@c-76-107-191-65.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 04:39.42 | DWSR | But that's probably because I'm used to having to do everything without CC on my lock |
| 04:39.55 | Dagmar | CC? FEAR! |
| 04:40.17 | DWSR | Fear works on how many mobs in Northrend while leveling, like 8? |
| 04:40.39 | Arrowmaster | yeah they learned from TBC |
| 04:40.56 | Arrowmaster | i soloed almost every elite TBC quest mob with fear |
| 04:41.07 | Dagmar | Looks like I'll just have to drop dots on them and then stay out of reach the old fashioned way then |
| 04:41.38 | Arrowmaster | not that many things are immune to snares |
| 04:41.45 | Arrowmaster | i think |
| 04:41.46 | DWSR | Dagmar, it might have been the areas I leveled in. |
| 04:41.58 | DWSR | I hit HF, GH, ZD, IC. |
| 04:42.18 | Jerub | i hit LFD so many times it bled. |
| 04:42.26 | DWSR | lol |
| 04:42.33 | DWSR | yeah, that's what I did on my DK |
| 04:42.35 | Arrowmaster | i pointed and laughed my way through northrend leveling with my felguard |
| 04:42.39 | DWSR | Leveled as a tank from 65 onwards |
| 04:43.18 | Arrowmaster | i soloed some 5 man quest mobs with just my felguard and lots of health funneling |
| 04:43.52 | DWSR | Meh. |
| 04:44.00 | DWSR | I soloed it as aff back when Aff was actually decent. |
| 04:46.10 | Dagmar | Yeah at the moment in Outlands, I can't find mobs fast enough |
| 04:46.31 | Dagmar | I can go running through places full-tilt, dropping two dots on a mob and thumbing the button to send the felguard after them |
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| 04:46.45 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shadowed] by ChanServ |
| 04:46.47 | Dagmar | Occasionally, I'll stop and take a wee break to loot |
| 04:47.10 | Jerub | levelling off mobs maks me cry |
| 04:47.23 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: go solo AQ40 trash |
| 04:47.30 | Dagmar | Well, generally they're on the menu due to quests, or they're um, just kinda in the way |
| 04:47.47 | Dagmar | That Doom curse thing... Is that even worth trying to make happen? |
| 04:47.59 | Arrowmaster | actually if you attempt that youll likely die a horrible horrible death |
| 04:48.02 | Dagmar | It kinda looks like you have to just dot up a mob and then keep it running around for awhile |
| 04:48.17 | Dagmar | Well, I've been _trying_ just very, very badly |
| 04:48.22 | Dagmar | Nothing lives 60s. Not even elites |
| 04:48.31 | Arrowmaster | gamon |
| 04:49.14 | Arrowmaster | has gotten many doomguards from gamon |
| 04:49.16 | Dagmar | Should I get lucky and the doomguard spawn, will it replace my current pet? |
| 04:49.31 | Arrowmaster | no it will try to eat your current pet and you |
| 04:49.59 | Arrowmaster | you have to use enslave demon on it |
| 04:50.08 | Dagmar | Ah okay |
| 04:50.36 | Dagmar | Well, at least that answers the question of whether or not I've been doing it anywhere close to right then |
| 04:50.54 | Dagmar | I'm fine with keeping a really nasty pet at bay |
| 05:02.08 | DWSR | http://xkcd.com/ <-- ROFL |
| 05:02.38 | Dagmar | hah |
| 05:06.06 | DWSR | Dagmar: The doomguard is no longer worth trying to get from Curse of Doom |
| 05:07.55 | DWSR | The Doomguard used to be badass. |
| 05:07.58 | DWSR | Now it's a bitch |
| 05:09.12 | DWSR | I remember when we summoned them on unsuspecting towns. |
| 05:09.19 | DWSR | And it would kill *all* the NPCs |
| 05:09.29 | DWSR | Now it just goes "derp derp" and the guards like 3 shot it. |
| 05:11.12 | DWSR | the Doomguard really didn't scale well with level past 60 |
| 05:11.22 | DWSR | Just like most NPCs that were around in vanilla. |
| 05:11.27 | DWSR | Their stats scaled linearly. |
| 05:11.41 | DWSR | Ours was some fucked up expontential curve approaching infinity rather quickly. |
| 05:19.47 | Adys | poll |
| 05:19.56 | Adys | http://db.mmo-champion.com/c/14367/thief-catcher-thunderbrew/ |
| 05:19.58 | Adys | cute or not cute? |
| 05:20.13 | DWSR | not cute. Humorous |
| 05:20.23 | Corrodias | you're asking whether the path is cute? |
| 05:20.29 | Adys | yeah. |
| 05:20.33 | Corrodias | i don't get it. |
| 05:21.30 | ZorbaTHut | adys, draw the path better |
| 05:21.47 | ZorbaTHut | the billion-little-dots method is both inefficient and not particularly user-friendly |
| 05:22.03 | Adys | ya I know |
| 05:22.36 | Adys | I had in mind some canvas app which would take the coords and accordingly draw a path, a blob or just keep regular dots |
| 05:22.50 | ZorbaTHut | do the coord-to-path conversion serverside |
| 05:23.02 | ZorbaTHut | if you want, I can talk about the methods I used in QH to turn a cloud of points into a polygon |
| 05:23.23 | DWSR | do please talk about it |
| 05:23.41 | Arrowmaster | http://kotaku.com/5493218/modern-warfare-2-map-pack-also-features-ridiculous-price |
| 05:24.08 | Arrowmaster | one of the comments "You know what would be the icing on this shit cake? If the download was only for unlock codes. Then somebody would probably burn Activision HQ down to the ground." |
| 05:24.12 | ZorbaTHut | dwsr, the short version: I took all the creature-has-been-seen dots and plotted them on a gigantic sparse bitmap. I blurred the bitmap significantly (i forget how much blurring it was offhand, something like 50 yards I think) and then normalized it |
| 05:24.49 | ZorbaTHut | take a b/w clamp from there, everything below 0.5 to 0 and above 0.5 to 1 (it may not have been 0.5, I forget the actual number) and now you have solid masses of "yes" and "no" |
| 05:24.50 | Arrowmaster | ive heard a rummer about somebody unpacking the MW2 game files and finding something like 5 unused maps |
| 05:24.59 | Arrowmaster | and this was months ago i heard that |
| 05:25.38 | ZorbaTHut | from there I traced the edge of each mass, which led to, essentially, a very complicated huge-number-of-points path around the solid areas |
| 05:26.22 | ZorbaTHut | I took *that* and tossed what was basically a polyreduction algorithm, based on http://mgarland.org/archive/cmu/quadrics/quadrics.html this old paper, though done in 2 dimensions obviously |
| 05:27.02 | ZorbaTHut | that gave me a rather nice low-polygon solid area. compressed it way down (chopping a bunch of precision bits off it in the process, I think the actual bounds I show have 8-yard or 16-yard resolution at best) and called it good. :) |
| 05:27.25 | ZorbaTHut | the end result looks better than anything wowhead has, expresses the data far more accurately, and probably uses a hell of a lot less bandwidth. |
| 05:28.08 | Dagmar | I always took a slightly easier route. |
| 05:28.23 | Dagmar | Iterated over every pixel of the map doing a quick comparison to see if any dot would lie within that pixel. |
| 05:28.34 | Dagmar | s/dot/point/; |
| 05:28.37 | Adys | ZorbaTHut: can you also distinguish between paths and polygons? |
| 05:28.55 | Dagmar | Then it's a matter of matching neighbors |
| 05:28.59 | ZorbaTHut | adys, I didn't bother to, but paths come across looking pretty distinct - you just get a very long wormlike polygon |
| 05:29.04 | ZorbaTHut | and I figure it was good enough |
| 05:29.11 | Adys | mm fair enough |
| 05:29.39 | ZorbaTHut | it was something I was thinking about for a future version, but after seeing the path of the Forsaken Courier in Alterac Mountains, I decided what I had was Good Enough |
| 05:29.53 | Dagmar | Good enough wins every time |
| 05:30.01 | ZorbaTHut | if you want I can toss you the sourcecode involved, but it's all in Lua and is, well, my code style, so it might be a bit painful ;) |
| 05:30.26 | Adys | another time |
| 05:30.35 | ZorbaTHut | righto |
| 05:30.41 | Adys | for now I still got stuff sitting on the top of the todo |
| 05:45.08 | Dagmar | Computationally intensive to iterate so much or not, at least my method resulted in an exact 1:1 match of the target resolution |
| 05:46.34 | Shirik | 3aa4d |
| 05:46.39 | Shirik | it's stuck in my head |
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| 05:56.14 | Thunder_Child | licks Fisker |
| 05:56.57 | Dagmar | You don't know where that's been. |
| 05:58.36 | Thunder_Child | 5 second rule |
| 06:02.25 | Dewin | must resist urge to whine in channel and annoy everyone. Still, it would be nice if Blizzard would stop erroneously sending me FIN/ACK packets. |
| 06:11.57 | kd3 | ah the joys of Science... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uixxJtJPVXk |
| 06:13.58 | Jerub | Dewin: it's probably a dodgy router in the way |
| 06:14.04 | Jerub | Dewin: not blizz |
| 06:15.07 | Thunder_Child | http://notalwaysright.com/intentional-sickness-and-in-health/4651 oh my..... |
| 06:17.09 | Jerub | Thunder_Child: hehehehehe |
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| 06:33.30 | Shirik | omg family guy is messed up |
| 06:34.05 | Shirik | Parody of a frosted mini wheats commercial: <michael jackson as a kid> "The kid in me likes the frosted side" <michael jackson as an adult> "But the adult in me likes the kid in me!" |
| 06:41.03 | Cairenn | lol |
| 06:42.01 | Adys | The adult in me likes the adult in Shirik |
| 06:42.02 | Adys | bite me. |
| 06:42.15 | Shirik | o.o |
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| 07:05.10 | WobWork | W--- with the m---- and your d----! |
| 07:05.16 | WobWork | You spit foul recriminations and vicious calumny. Ladies faint dead away and gentlemen stagger under the barrage. Your target runs, weeping, with her hands over her ears. You follow her! Your tirade continues in the street, where hansoms careen hastily off and urchins fall from rooftops. You pick up your victim's dropped letters and wave them as a final salute. You are spent. |
| 07:05.25 | WobWork | I <3 this game for the writing alone =P |
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| 07:17.05 | DWSR | Cairenn! |
| 07:17.06 | DWSR | :( |
| 07:17.12 | Cairenn | ? |
| 07:17.18 | DWSR | I in needs of teh hugglez. |
| 07:17.30 | Cairenn | why? |
| 07:17.40 | DWSR | I don't know, that's what's bothering me. |
| 07:17.44 | Cairenn | oh |
| 07:17.47 | Cairenn | hugs DWSR |
| 07:17.53 | DWSR | fank ye |
| 07:17.58 | Cairenn | np |
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| 07:18.10 | DWSR | anyway |
| 07:18.14 | Cairenn | I always have hugs available |
| 07:18.16 | DWSR | :) |
| 07:18.25 | DWSR | Is that what you convert all your spare emblems to?\ |
| 07:19.00 | DWSR | !define calumny |
| 07:19.05 | DWSR | ~define calumny |
| 07:19.06 | purl | Use ~dict for definitions. |
| 07:19.10 | DWSR | ~dict calumny |
| 07:19.17 | DWSR | lol |
| 07:20.40 | *** join/#wowuidev zenzio (~zenzio__@85.19.77.194) |
| 07:22.07 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 07:22.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen1 (~Sixen@173-25-23-10.client.mchsi.com) |
| 07:27.37 | Shirik | hmmm |
| 07:27.58 | Shirik | Is it a bad sign when I start to notice technical mistakes in Star Trek episodes? |
| 07:28.06 | Shirik | i.e., that someone's rank is incorrect on their uniform? |
| 07:28.23 | Mr_Rabies | get out while you still can |
| 07:28.31 | Mr_Rabies | there's a glimmer of hope left |
| 07:28.49 | zenzio | Shirik: is it inconsistent inside the series, or could they just have developed their own rank marking scehem? |
| 07:28.55 | zenzio | *scheme... |
| 07:29.10 | Shirik | well no, what happened was one of the characters was demoted a few episodes |
| 07:29.11 | Shirik | ago |
| 07:29.25 | Shirik | and I just noticed his rank is his old rank in a few scenes in this episode |
| 07:29.34 | Shirik | but it goes back and forth |
| 07:29.38 | zenzio | haha |
| 07:29.51 | Mr_Rabies | i'm not that nerdy |
| 07:30.00 | Mr_Rabies | though i can tell when animation is hilariously off-model |
| 07:30.44 | Mr_Rabies | like, less obvious than this of course |
| 07:30.45 | Mr_Rabies | http://imgur.com/xNlFK.jpg |
| 07:32.35 | Shirik | wtf |
| 07:32.40 | Shirik | he even just got called a lieutenant |
| 07:32.46 | Shirik | now I know I'm not making it up |
| 07:33.35 | Mr_Rabies | i guess i don't really save the stuff that i find only marginally funny, only the hilarious stuff :( |
| 07:36.07 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: what series? |
| 07:36.13 | Shirik | voyager |
| 07:41.29 | Adys | However, the horny stick-figure couple from todayâs comic strip have a problem: upon rolling the dice only one of them is a sex die - the other is a normal, numbered die. This leads to the humorously non sexual roll, âfive breasts.â It is then revealed that the other sex die has been swapped into a childrenâs fantasy role-playing game, which causes confusion by including sexual concepts into an activity generally void of any. |
| 07:41.37 | Adys | xkcdexplained is rofl |
| 07:43.50 | Arrowmaster | i dont see the point in that |
| 07:44.00 | Arrowmaster | i would rather have a pennyarcadeexplained |
| 07:44.57 | Adys | maybe its time to register that then. |
| 07:46.44 | Arrowmaster | well i couldnt be the one to run it since half the time i dont know what damn game they are referencing |
| 07:49.56 | Shirik | AHA |
| 07:50.00 | Shirik | It makes sense now |
| 07:50.20 | Shirik | there was no mistake, it was a very cleverly placed hint |
| 07:50.41 | Shirik | there are actually two voyagers, one of which he is a lieutenant, one of which he is an ensign |
| 07:50.42 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 07:50.45 | Fisker | lets be friends |
| 07:50.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Zyonin (~zyonin@93-38-82-126.ip69.fastwebnet.it) |
| 07:50.58 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Zyonin] by ChanServ |
| 07:51.14 | Shirik | Fisker, l2us |
| 07:51.23 | Shirik | cannot frend eu |
| 07:51.52 | Bruners | Shirik: Fisker lives in kristiania which is outside EU |
| 07:51.59 | Shirik | irrelevant |
| 07:52.05 | Shirik | Blizzard thinks he's in the EU |
| 07:53.25 | zenzio | wait, what? |
| 07:56.53 | Shirik | ? |
| 07:57.31 | zenzio | I am intrigued by the claim that Fisker resides in Kristiania o_O |
| 08:00.36 | Fisker | I am intrigued by this "Kristiania" you speak of |
| 08:01.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (~Srosh@c209068.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 08:02.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 08:04.13 | Bruners | i'm sorry, i spelled it wrong. It should be Christiania |
| 08:06.19 | haste | dun dun duuuun |
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| 08:14.38 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: you must not watch enough stargate, if you did then an inaccurate rank for a character after they were previously promoted/demoted would be an immediate hint that you were in an alternate dimension |
| 08:14.49 | Shirik | I don't watch stargate |
| 08:14.57 | Arrowmaster | ~failrik |
| 08:14.58 | purl | FAIL, Shirik, FAIL! |
| 08:15.08 | Arrowmaster | purl, tell Shirik about failrik |
| 08:15.28 | Arrowmaster | <purl> told Shirik about failrik (FAIL, Shirik, FAIL!) |
| 08:15.34 | Arrowmaster | yes i abuse that too much |
| 08:17.34 | Shirik | gah |
| 08:17.37 | Shirik | I can't believe I didn't realize this |
| 08:18.00 | Arrowmaster | what? |
| 08:18.08 | Shirik | it all makes perfect sense |
| 08:18.28 | Shirik | they were throwing hints around the entire time |
| 08:19.39 | Shirik | pretty clever though |
| 08:19.41 | Arrowmaster | whenever i get to this episode im going to be severely disappointed when i figure it out on the first hint or even before |
| 08:19.47 | Shirik | :( |
| 08:20.02 | Shirik | well it's not enough to figure out what I've just told you |
| 08:20.16 | Shirik | There's a lot more hints than what I've said here, now that I've finished the episode I realize it |
| 08:20.20 | Shirik | but I won't spoil it for you :) |
| 08:20.31 | Shirik | you can figure out the entire episode in the first 10 minutes |
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| 08:37.38 | Fisker | slaps Shirik around a bit with a large trout |
| 08:38.28 | Fisker | They always get O'Neill's rank wrong |
| 08:38.36 | Fisker | must be a lot of alternate universes then |
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| 08:57.27 | DWSR | Shirik: Which SG are you watching? SG1? |
| 08:57.43 | Shirik | ... |
| 08:57.55 | Shirik | (04:14:49) (@Shirik) I don't watch stargate |
| 08:58.18 | DWSR | meh, missed that. |
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| 09:06.28 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (~airtonix@unaffiliated/airtonix) |
| 09:08.04 | olafski | dwsr: got en even more win shield now: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Turalyon&cn=Warriorski |
| 09:08.16 | olafski | not stats wise but on every char I roll that can use a shield I have one of these just for the looks :P |
| 09:08.18 | DWSR | lol |
| 09:08.32 | DWSR | win |
| 09:08.55 | DWSR | http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Emerald+Dream&n=Arelin <-- Can you believe that someone turned me down for tanking ICC25 with this gear? |
| 09:09.00 | olafski | I've had this one since I could equip it.. should really log off with it |
| 09:09.25 | olafski | what an interesting pose :P |
| 09:11.29 | olafski | well, people tend to look at HP only :< you have socketed something other than stamina so you're clearly a noob ;) |
| 09:12.03 | ZorbaTHut | olafski, in fairness, that's kind of accurate :) |
| 09:12.23 | ZorbaTHut | you also have a fast tanking weapon so uh yeah I'd turn you down also :P |
| 09:12.43 | olafski | oh and no professions |
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| 09:14.42 | DWSR | olafski: Yeah, working on those. |
| 09:14.50 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Yeah, it's Rimefang's Claw or Crusader's Glory. |
| 09:15.22 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, what I'm saying is that if I saw you with Rimefang's Claw, I'd instantly veto it. |
| 09:15.31 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: I'm at least wielding it in my OH. |
| 09:15.45 | ZorbaTHut | if you're wielding dog poop, I don't care if it's your MH or your OH. |
| 09:15.54 | DWSR | It's in fact increased both my TPS/DPS over Razorscale Talon and Crusader's Glory. |
| 09:16.03 | ZorbaTHut | Even Burnished Quel'Serrar is dubious. |
| 09:16.09 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Both my weapons suck. |
| 09:16.27 | DWSR | However that doesn't stop me from pulling absolute fucktons of TPS. |
| 09:16.38 | ZorbaTHut | how much is fucktons? |
| 09:17.05 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Triple what a 7k mage puts out. |
| 09:17.13 | DWSR | (I don't have the actual TPS display on Skada enabled). |
| 09:17.25 | DWSR | Mostly because I don't care about the number, I care about the relative meter positions. |
| 09:17.36 | ZorbaTHut | you should care about the number, it's the only absolute metric you have. |
| 09:17.41 | DWSR | If I'm not threat capping a raid, why do my weapons matter? |
| 09:18.37 | frontendloader | dks r bad tanks |
| 09:18.44 | ZorbaTHut | they matter because you may not be as good as you think you are, because 7k isn't an amazing amount and mages don't put out all that much threat anyway, because some fights are tougher to threat-equal than others, and because if someone doesn't care about one part of their gear, it's a sign they may not care about other parts. |
| 09:18.53 | DWSR | I still haven't had fucking Black Heart or Essence of Gossamer drop out of fucking AN or ToCr. |
| 09:18.56 | DWSR | err. |
| 09:18.57 | DWSR | ToCh* |
| 09:19.07 | ZorbaTHut | (in my experience it's warlocks who are the real threat machines) |
| 09:19.12 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: It's not that I don't care, I understand that both weapons suck. |
| 09:19.22 | DWSR | But how am I supposed to pick up better weapons than those without running a raid? |
| 09:19.34 | DWSR | There aren't any seriously better weapons out there that I can easily pick up. |
| 09:19.36 | ZorbaTHut | you're telling me there are no slow one-handers in any of the ICC 5-mans? |
| 09:19.40 | ZorbaTHut | because I don't believe that. |
| 09:19.46 | DWSR | Show me one. |
| 09:19.53 | krka | that's what she said |
| 09:19.53 | ZorbaTHut | okay, gimme a min |
| 09:20.12 | DWSR | Also, is my 2nd largest damage source supposed to be white damage? |
| 09:20.27 | ZorbaTHut | http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50191 hey look what I found |
| 09:20.35 | DWSR | Because my runes are always on CD and I'm dumping RP out the ass and it's still #2. |
| 09:21.18 | ZorbaTHut | http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50303 what what, here's another one |
| 09:21.28 | ZorbaTHut | (I have no idea what DK damage breakdown looks like :D) |
| 09:21.52 | olafski | as I said, with DW tanking I'd go with 2 slow dps weapons ;) |
| 09:22.02 | olafski | regardless, it's a-me, Deathski: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Dragonblight&n=Deathski |
| 09:22.17 | olafski | with fast weapons I imagine white damage comes quite high |
| 09:22.27 | olafski | since all your attacks are based on weapon damage and as such will do low damage with fast weapons |
| 09:22.51 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Regardless: http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t40739-dw_tanking_builds_3_3_updated_12_01_10_a/#Weapons |
| 09:22.53 | ZorbaTHut | http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Shattered+Halls&n=zorba my gear is so rusty by now :( |
| 09:23.14 | ZorbaTHut | Don't use two fast tanking weapons and then complain about low threat in this thread. |
| 09:23.20 | ZorbaTHut | so uh |
| 09:23.21 | ZorbaTHut | yeah |
| 09:23.24 | DWSR | I'm not using 2 fast tanking weapons. |
| 09:23.35 | ZorbaTHut | you're using a fast tanking weapon and a medium-speed tanking weapon |
| 09:23.38 | ZorbaTHut | you have zero slow weapons |
| 09:23.51 | olafski | So you can either use slow DPS weapons or mix a slow DPS main hand with a fast tanking off hand. :) |
| 09:24.22 | olafski | but what do I know.. I keep aggro just fine in heroics and don't really care about raid performance =) |
| 09:24.36 | olafski | if I ever go to VoA or somesuch, it's with a pug and people in pugs suck so they won't get aggro off of me anyway |
| 09:25.03 | DWSR | I've tanked 10m ICC and been at like 600-800% of threat on the DPS on stuff like Marrowgar and Deathwhisper. |
| 09:25.17 | DWSR | I mean, the DPS weren't stellar, but we had 2 locks and a hunter. |
| 09:25.22 | DWSR | And they weren't even close. |
| 09:25.29 | olafski | 600% sounds really hard to believe |
| 09:26.09 | krka | olafski: if you're in a pug, wouldn't that make you suck aswell? |
| 09:26.11 | olafski | though both of those fights have "adds" |
| 09:26.15 | olafski | krka: perhaps! |
| 09:26.26 | DWSR | olafski: P2 Lady is T&S. |
| 09:26.29 | olafski | krka: let me rephrase: most people in pugs suck, and the ones that don't know when to press the soulshatter button :) |
| 09:26.38 | olafski | dwsr: oh, I thought there were adds in p2 too :( |
| 09:26.44 | DWSR | Nope. |
| 09:26.46 | DWSR | ghosts can't be DPSed. |
| 09:26.51 | olafski | I only see those fights out of the corner of my eye when my gf does them |
| 09:26.52 | DWSR | It's 10m, so no MC. |
| 09:27.02 | DWSR | regardless. |
| 09:27.10 | DWSR | I'd *love* some slow DPS weapons. |
| 09:27.10 | olafski | I still think a tank doing 600% of the top dps's threat sounds unlikely though |
| 09:27.12 | DWSR | If they'll drop. |
| 09:27.23 | ZorbaTHut | dwsr, run FoS and HoR every day |
| 09:27.24 | ZorbaTHut | they will |
| 09:27.39 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: I run FoS, HoR, AN, ToC. |
| 09:27.46 | ZorbaTHut | 25% drop rate from their respective fights. |
| 09:27.48 | DWSR | None of them have dropped the fucking piece of gear that I want. |
| 09:27.55 | ZorbaTHut | hah |
| 09:27.59 | DWSR | Like, I really want a stam trinket. |
| 09:28.01 | DWSR | That won't drop. |
| 09:28.03 | DWSR | Want some weapons. |
| 09:28.05 | DWSR | Those won't drop. |
| 09:28.11 | olafski | say it's an arcane mage doing 7k dps, with arcane subtletly, they'll be doing 0.6 * 7k = 4.2k tps (if I understood this correctly) |
| 09:28.13 | ZorbaTHut | I got essence of gossamer on my first AN run :D |
| 09:28.24 | DWSR | BQ'S is *ok*, and I could do with just 1 DPS weapon. |
| 09:28.36 | DWSR | But I'd put BQ'S in the OH slot when I picked it up. |
| 09:28.56 | olafski | you'd have to be doing 25k threat per second to be at 600% of that :( |
| 09:29.16 | DWSR | olafski: You're assuming a constant rate of damage and also that the 7k mage and the 600% were in the same instance. |
| 09:29.19 | DWSR | which they weren't. |
| 09:29.20 | ZorbaTHut | olafski, assuming they're not using invisibility on cooldown |
| 09:29.29 | DWSR | Or MI, which drops your threat. |
| 09:29.48 | olafski | hmm true.. well I still think 600% is too much ;p |
| 09:30.05 | olafski | what's MI again? :$ |
| 09:30.10 | DWSR | Mirror Image. |
| 09:30.20 | olafski | oh yeah.. doesn't that give you your threat back afterwards though? |
| 09:30.28 | DWSR | I don't *think* so, but not 100% sure. |
| 09:30.40 | olafski | it's not listed on wowwiki.com/Threat |
| 09:30.42 | olafski | invisibility is though |
| 09:32.23 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Oh, I'll mention I've run those instances 1.5x per day on average FOR A FUCKING WEEK |
| 09:32.29 | DWSR | And haven't picked up what I wanted. |
| 09:35.57 | olafski | anyway, since you clearly have no threat problems you could start by gemming more stamina :) |
| 09:36.12 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, what's up with that hit anyway |
| 09:36.34 | ZorbaTHut | hit is junk for tanks |
| 09:36.56 | olafski | the trinket from the black knight is easily farmable since there's no dungeon lockout there; you can replace the neck with a 232 or 245 I think from emblems, and leveling JC+mining should give you another ~150 stamina ;) |
| 09:37.52 | DWSR | olafski: Wait, it drops on NORMAL? |
| 09:37.54 | DWSR | Fuck >.< |
| 09:37.58 | DWSR | I forgot it drops on Normal. |
| 09:38.03 | airtonix | lulz |
| 09:38.04 | olafski | yes :P |
| 09:38.06 | ZorbaTHut | yeah it drops on normal ;) |
| 09:38.10 | DWSR | Yeap. |
| 09:38.12 | airtonix | evveryone forgets normal does stuff |
| 09:38.12 | DWSR | I'm retarded. |
| 09:38.18 | DWSR | Yeah, still, no EoG. |
| 09:38.18 | ZorbaTHut | (the weapons I linked to you drop on heroic, though, so keep running those) |
| 09:38.21 | olafski | also kill coren a couple of times when he's up again ;)) |
| 09:38.23 | ZorbaTHut | (and so does gossamer) |
| 09:38.30 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Taunt missed a few too many times. |
| 09:38.35 | ZorbaTHut | isn't there some good badge tanking trinket? |
| 09:38.35 | olafski | get the taunt glyph :) |
| 09:38.39 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Yes. |
| 09:38.43 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: I'm wearing it. |
| 09:38.46 | ZorbaTHut | yeah get the taunt glyph. or use death grip. |
| 09:38.47 | olafski | the frost badge tanking trinket is nice |
| 09:38.53 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 09:39.01 | DWSR | Don't have enough badges yet. |
| 09:39.32 | ZorbaTHut | huh, death grip doesn't work as well for that as mocking blow does |
| 09:39.35 | DWSR | No. |
| 09:39.38 | ZorbaTHut | man, warriors have *so many taunts* compared to some classes |
| 09:39.42 | ZorbaTHut | I love being a warrior :3 |
| 09:39.44 | DWSR | They're also introducing a minimum range for DG next patch. |
| 09:39.50 | DWSR | (Which is fucking stupid). |
| 09:40.11 | airtonix | Double Grope ? |
| 09:40.17 | DWSR | Death Grip. |
| 09:40.22 | DWSR | Also, what Taunt glyph? |
| 09:40.29 | ZorbaTHut | it's called Glyph of Taunt. |
| 09:40.34 | airtonix | Gives your taunts mroe insults |
| 09:40.35 | ZorbaTHut | or Glyph of Dark Command, probably. |
| 09:40.41 | DWSR | It's a MAJOR? |
| 09:40.42 | DWSR | Fuck that. |
| 09:40.52 | olafski | the minimum range for DG was a bug |
| 09:40.53 | ZorbaTHut | better than burning that many gems on it |
| 09:40.56 | olafski | they're not introducing that |
| 09:41.06 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: The all of 2 gems? |
| 09:41.15 | olafski | dwsr: that's 30 stamina ;) |
| 09:41.19 | ZorbaTHut | the all of 2 gems that do effectively nothing, yes |
| 09:41.24 | airtonix | so what race is your death knight DWSR ? |
| 09:41.28 | ZorbaTHut | seriously how much hit are you getting from those gems |
| 09:41.29 | DWSR | airtonix: Nelf. |
| 09:41.33 | DWSR | 1%. |
| 09:41.33 | airtonix | LULZ |
| 09:41.36 | DWSR | Or, close to it. |
| 09:41.40 | DWSR | airtonix: I wasn't being human again |
| 09:41.43 | airtonix | i was just thinking please say nelf |
| 09:41.48 | olafski | :P |
| 09:41.55 | olafski | racechange to draenei, free +1% hit :) |
| 09:41.56 | DWSR | Trinket racial is not worth listening to that annoying shit. |
| 09:42.01 | ZorbaTHut | airtonix, female nelf, "the patient" |
| 09:42.11 | DWSR | Hey, it works for roleplay, right? |
| 09:42.22 | ZorbaTHut | olafski, in fairness, most of the time in alliance groups you get that +1% hit anyway |
| 09:42.26 | airtonix | need more halfbreeds |
| 09:42.26 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 09:42.32 | olafski | zorbathut: yeah I guess :) |
| 09:42.39 | olafski | I'm human because their racials beat everything |
| 09:42.41 | DWSR | In a heroic it doesn't matter, and in raids there's always some fucking drae. |
| 09:42.45 | olafski | on the alliance side anyway |
| 09:42.46 | DWSR | Usually a shaman, sometimes a mage. |
| 09:42.49 | ZorbaTHut | I'm a draenai 'cause they're the best. |
| 09:42.50 | airtonix | we dont play mmorpgs for the story |
| 09:43.01 | DWSR | olafski: Human spirit < Elusiveness. |
| 09:43.06 | airtonix | we play them because counterstrike maps are too small |
| 09:43.08 | DWSR | olafski: Also, ninja pulls from Shadowmeld === win |
| 09:43.25 | DWSR | Yes, the triple equals is on purpose. |
| 09:43.26 | olafski | bleh elusiveness |
| 09:43.27 | olafski | every man for himself! |
| 09:43.36 | DWSR | olafski: Not worth it. |
| 09:43.53 | DWSR | olafski: There are not that many times in raid where I find myself wanting that *as a tank* |
| 09:44.00 | olafski | awesome ability.. don't care about spirit but +10% reputation? yes please.. achievement whore is I |
| 09:44.06 | DWSR | Since I'm always priority cleanse target. |
| 09:44.11 | DWSR | olafski: yeah, but that's what my main is for. |
| 09:44.13 | airtonix | so do any of you play city of heroes? |
| 09:44.25 | DWSR | airtonix: No, I hear it's completely imbalanced and fucking awful. |
| 09:44.35 | airtonix | thats what they say about wow though |
| 09:44.45 | DWSR | airtonix: WoW isn't imbalanced, though. |
| 09:44.49 | DWSR | not massively, anyway. |
| 09:44.51 | airtonix | isnt it? |
| 09:45.03 | airtonix | i mean i never noticed either way cause i didnt care |
| 09:45.05 | DWSR | Wait, I might be thinking of Champions Online. |
| 09:45.23 | airtonix | only glaring thing that i found lackign was the players |
| 09:45.38 | airtonix | and their slobbering addiction to loot |
| 09:45.44 | DWSR | There was some game, either CO or CoH, which just admitted that their melee powersets were getting fucking dominated by the ranged ones because the ranged could just blow you up before you could get close enough to do any damage |
| 09:46.34 | olafski | airtonix: are you saying that's different in wow? ;) |
| 09:46.39 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 09:46.50 | airtonix | city of heroes has this thing where players can craft their own raids and dungeons for others |
| 09:47.03 | DWSR | airtonix: I'd put in a billion mobs with 1 health. |
| 09:47.08 | DWSR | And watch everyone's computers crash. |
| 09:47.11 | airtonix | olafski, i think my point there applies to every single game online at this point |
| 09:47.40 | airtonix | DWSR, well yeah first thing the undesirables did was create farms for their own loot gain |
| 09:47.53 | DWSR | That's surprising? |
| 09:48.50 | airtonix | no but what is that some players actually extended the game within the boundaries of the worlds lore |
| 09:49.17 | DWSR | HOLY SHIT |
| 09:49.18 | airtonix | i mean... what is the release cycle for most mmos to expand the story ? |
| 09:49.27 | airtonix | a year? |
| 09:49.37 | DWSR | Word 2007's Equation editor understands TeX? |
| 09:49.39 | DWSR | WHAT THE FUCK? |
| 09:49.43 | DWSR | WHEN DID THIS SHIT HAPPEN? |
| 09:50.39 | airtonix | probably in 2007? |
| 09:50.39 | haste | probably in 2006 knowing microsoft releases |
| 09:51.35 | zenzio | I'm surprised you're surprised; I seem to recall there was some commotion when they introduced that new fancy equation stuff |
| 09:51.50 | DWSR | Honestly, it's fucking fantastic. |
| 09:51.59 | DWSR | Now I can actually insert equations with the fucking keyboard. |
| 09:52.02 | DWSR | Instead of a brutally slow GUI. |
| 09:52.21 | airtonix | even if blizzard created a new rank for players called 'lore givers' and allowed them to crate in game books...that would be sweet |
| 09:52.34 | airtonix | just like you can in everquest i think |
| 09:53.23 | DWSR | airtonix: s/sweet/fucking disasterous/ |
| 09:53.33 | ZorbaTHut | enter book text here: |
| 09:53.38 | ZorbaTHut | dongs dongs dongs dongs dongs dongs dongs dongs dongs dongs dongs dongs dongs dongs dongs dongs dongs dongs |
| 09:53.48 | DWSR | ^ |
| 09:53.59 | airtonix | of course only people i authorise would be able to |
| 09:54.17 | airtonix | etc etc your brain is now owned by blizzard |
| 09:54.18 | ZorbaTHut | checks the "translate into darnassian" button and tosses it in the Orgrimmar central library |
| 09:55.05 | DWSR | airtonix: It's a fucking awful idea. |
| 09:55.10 | DWSR | You might as well make them Blizzard employees. |
| 09:55.30 | DWSR | Because that's the only way that I would trust them with my lore, because yes, it's fucking mine. |
| 09:55.59 | airtonix | DWSR, bu you've already proven you don't care by your voracious and hedonistic dash for loot |
| 09:56.22 | DWSR | airtonix: You're misunderstanding the intent. |
| 09:56.31 | DWSR | I'm loot whoring because I want to experience the lore. |
| 09:56.54 | DWSR | Once I get to a gear level when I can stop needing on every piece I lay my eyes on, I will start enjoying the lore significantly. |
| 09:57.10 | airtonix | only as god can you experience the environment ? |
| 09:57.59 | airtonix | or speak to the bartender? maybe he might enrage and give you a paragraph reply instead of a single word? |
| 09:58.22 | DWSR | airtonix: No, only as someone who's properly equipped to experience the lore can I...experience the lore. |
| 09:58.26 | DWSR | airtonix: I wouldn't walk into ICC with T7 on. |
| 09:58.34 | airtonix | because its locked behind doors and large dogs? |
| 09:58.55 | DWSR | Yes. I generally like to avoid death, simulated or real. |
| 09:59.10 | airtonix | i mean its not like anyone outside a dungeon has anything relevant to say |
| 09:59.17 | airtonix | nyerk |
| 10:00.36 | airtonix | But once you get in the raid dungeon there isn't much else apart from dismemberment occuring |
| 10:01.19 | olafski | I find it enough to watch videos on youtube about dungeons ;) |
| 10:01.22 | airtonix | Do any of the dungeons (apart from kara) have readable books |
| 10:01.40 | olafski | I'm a loremaster but I can probably not even remember what to do for 50% of the quests (e.g. the TBC part) |
| 10:01.51 | airtonix | loremaster as in you found all the books ? |
| 10:01.53 | olafski | 5mans do.. but I guess you didn't mean that |
| 10:01.59 | olafski | no, loremaster as in done all the quests :) |
| 10:02.07 | krka | loremaster = do a crapload of quests everywhere :P |
| 10:02.09 | olafski | I'm also well read, meaning I clicked on all the books ;) |
| 10:02.14 | airtonix | ok, but yes i meant any dungeon really. |
| 10:02.30 | airtonix | clicked or spammed next? |
| 10:02.36 | airtonix | :) |
| 10:03.03 | olafski | just clicked |
| 10:03.16 | olafski | you don't need to click next, it counts as soon as you open them |
| 10:03.25 | airtonix | more books in the dungeons would be great which hint at random puzzles in the dungeon |
| 10:03.26 | olafski | there are a lot of books in scarlet monastery and a couple in scholomance |
| 10:03.49 | olafski | the rest were in random buildings/cities all over azeroth |
| 10:03.49 | zenzio | guys i need the brill one plz?? |
| 10:04.44 | olafski | I found a guide which combined the squirrel achievements, pest control, well read and the fishing pool thingies so I did that last week |
| 10:06.35 | olafski | maybe I should start spending my alchemy money on the more expensive mounts |
| 10:07.02 | zenzio | I don't think you can make any interesting potions/flasks out of the mounts |
| 10:07.16 | olafski | I make money with alchemy :( |
| 10:07.19 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (~nuoHep@83.220.61.106) |
| 10:07.26 | zenzio | lies, that's an urban myth |
| 10:07.53 | olafski | leveled a third alchemist to 450 yesterday |
| 10:08.23 | olafski | it doesn't go very fast but I should be able to make about 2100g per week with that, assuming no mastery procs |
| 10:08.29 | olafski | and it's only a couple of minutes a day |
| 10:08.44 | ZorbaTHut | just dropped a party with a retribution paladin coated in ungemmed str greens trying to heal, telling me that I was in the wrong spec for tanking (blood :P) |
| 10:08.58 | Fisker | how far are you in pokemon zenzio ? |
| 10:08.59 | airtonix | have any of you used the latest version of songbird ? |
| 10:09.04 | DWSR | Anyone here good with measurement uncertainty? |
| 10:09.09 | DWSR | airtonix: Yes. It's still awful. |
| 10:09.14 | olafski | zorbathut: it's amazing how many people think "frost presence = tanking, therefor frost spec must be the only tank spec" |
| 10:09.26 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Ahahaha |
| 10:09.26 | airtonix | DWSR, how do you mena |
| 10:09.27 | ZorbaTHut | olafski, yeah |
| 10:09.30 | DWSR | You tank a heroic in blood? |
| 10:09.34 | ZorbaTHut | "we wiped bcuz ur in blood" |
| 10:09.37 | DWSR | Wait, do you have your 2pT10? |
| 10:09.47 | DWSR | airtonix: songbird's a nice idea. |
| 10:09.52 | ZorbaTHut | each healing cast doing a whopping 700 health |
| 10:09.54 | DWSR | The team behind it doesn't know their asshole from their mouth |
| 10:09.55 | ZorbaTHut | dwsr, level 65 |
| 10:10.00 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Ah. |
| 10:10.03 | airtonix | DWSR, true, but im comparing to rhythmbox and banshee |
| 10:10.11 | olafski | ooh 2pt10 will be really nice for heroics :P |
| 10:10.20 | DWSR | That's like comparing a large pile of shit to an equally large pile of shit. |
| 10:10.28 | DWSR | olafski: 2pT10 makes blood viably AoE. |
| 10:10.46 | ZorbaTHut | if you have 2pt10, your AoE is largely irrelevant |
| 10:10.47 | olafski | could just get the D&D glyph to get the same effect |
| 10:10.53 | ZorbaTHut | you're going to chew through heroics no matter what |
| 10:11.07 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: It's just a matter of whether or not you have threat on the mob that the stupid hunter is laying into. |
| 10:11.14 | olafski | I've sort of given up on getting T10 |
| 10:11.19 | DWSR | olafski: Why? It's easy. |
| 10:11.21 | ZorbaTHut | if you're in 2pt10, there are two options for that |
| 10:11.23 | olafski | 95 emblems means 1.5 months to get one item :P |
| 10:11.24 | airtonix | DWSR, why is that ? |
| 10:11.27 | ZorbaTHut | (1) you do, because the hunter isn't doing a huge amount of DPS |
| 10:11.35 | ZorbaTHut | (2) you don't, because the hunter is, and he kills it before it gets to him |
| 10:11.37 | ZorbaTHut | either way I don't care |
| 10:11.39 | DWSR | airtonix: BEcause they're all awful. |
| 10:11.43 | airtonix | DWSR, why is that ? |
| 10:11.54 | Kalroth | hey Fisker |
| 10:11.59 | DWSR | airtonix: Go away Fisker. |
| 10:12.00 | olafski | or you just taunt/DG the mob back :) |
| 10:12.17 | zenzio | DWSR: so what would you use instead of those players? |
| 10:12.18 | ZorbaTHut | olafski, you have any idea how many buttons that takes? |
| 10:12.20 | ZorbaTHut | I don't |
| 10:12.24 | DWSR | zenzio: I wouldn't. <3 Foobar. |
| 10:12.24 | ZorbaTHut | because I'm too lazy to count |
| 10:12.28 | ZorbaTHut | and I'm certainly far too lazy to do it |
| 10:12.40 | olafski | I press any amount of buttons that's required :P |
| 10:12.58 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Meh, I've never explicitly let a DPS die in a heroic................................ |
| 10:13.07 | DWSR | Yeah, I can't even TYPE that with a straight face. |
| 10:13.10 | DWSR | :) |
| 10:13.18 | ZorbaTHut | dwsr, if someone's geared enough to pull off you, they're probably geared enough to solo the mob |
| 10:13.22 | olafski | I tank heroics with the same attitude that I tanked our ulduar progress raids with.. well not with a flask :P |
| 10:13.23 | ZorbaTHut | it's sorta not worth worrying about. |
| 10:13.33 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Yeah, that's true. Doesn't mean DPS don't get angry when they do. |
| 10:13.44 | olafski | dps can get angry all they want.. they can also leave |
| 10:13.49 | Fisker | hey Kalroth |
| 10:13.55 | DWSR | I wish autorun worked in the backwards direction as well. |
| 10:13.56 | Kalroth | <3 |
| 10:14.08 | DWSR | I've tanked so many heroics by just holding down D and just pulling everything along the way. |
| 10:14.15 | Kalroth | Fisker > Zorba |
| 10:14.19 | olafski | yesterday I was doing SM graveyard on my warrior, a mage rolled need on an "of shadow wrath" item. I asked him why, he said "lol yeah to sell it!" So I said I don't like ninja's and I'll continue tanking when he leaves.. took about 30 seconds |
| 10:14.21 | DWSR | I'm like "This is the speed we're going at, no slower" |
| 10:14.45 | Fisker | ZorbaTHut is the best poketrainer i've ever met |
| 10:14.56 | ZorbaTHut | I can make that squirtle squirt like there's no tomorrow |
| 10:14.57 | DWSR | olafski: Yeah, but unfortunately most heroics are over before you can kick the person |
| 10:15.16 | olafski | he left on his own |
| 10:15.25 | olafski | SM graveyard takes about 7 minutes I think :P |
| 10:15.29 | zenzio | I think many would find me an annoying tank; I slow down the pace rather than keep it up if I'm not confident the DPS are wise enough to keep themselves alive |
| 10:15.52 | zenzio | think it's a habit from the 55-60 instance grind |
| 10:16.01 | DWSR | zenzio: Yeah I would find you annoying too. |
| 10:16.06 | DWSR | zenzio: I'd also put on my tank gear and start tanking. :P |
| 10:16.15 | olafski | I think I'm an average speed tank.. I look at the healer's mana, if it's more than 20% I pull another pack.. and especially on my paladin I don't want to be out of combat for more than 10 seconds |
| 10:16.30 | Kalroth | If you stop pulling as a tank, then you've already lost |
| 10:16.38 | zenzio | DWSR: wouldn't bother me at all; I'm quite clear on how I do things, and if they disagree, they're welcome to find a new tank |
| 10:16.54 | olafski | wouldn't bother me either but if I were the healer in that group I'd just let you die :P |
| 10:17.07 | zenzio | I'll say that I don't stop pulling; I just limit how much we take at a time |
| 10:17.24 | olafski | non-tanks get a renew, if that's not enough they shouldn't have pulled aggro ;) |
| 10:17.37 | Kalroth | You should be pulling a new pack when there's 1-2 left of the old pack |
| 10:17.57 | zenzio | Kalroth: as long as I feel the group is sufficeintly smart, I do |
| 10:18.02 | olafski | I'm too greedy for that |
| 10:18.03 | Adys | http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2361357,00.asp |
| 10:18.04 | olafski | must loot everything! |
| 10:18.13 | zenzio | to be honest I haven't had a problem with pace since early BC |
| 10:18.18 | Kalroth | zenzio: well poor players gotta learn somehow |
| 10:18.27 | zenzio | Kalroth: that's a valid point |
| 10:18.53 | olafski | adys: she sounds like she has some mental deficiency :S |
| 10:19.11 | Adys | funny, I was just about to say the same about Kalroth |
| 10:19.20 | Kalroth | Adys: HEHE .. wait what |
| 10:21.43 | Fisker | zenzio |
| 10:21.47 | Fisker | how far are you in pokemon? |
| 10:24.13 | airtonix | ~logs |
| 10:24.14 | purl | All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged. logs are updated daily |
| 10:24.54 | Fisker | Shadowed are you here? |
| 10:26.06 | Fisker | ~seen Shadowed |
| 10:26.08 | purl | shadowed is currently on #wowuidev (5h 39m 23s) #wowace (5h 39m 23s), last said: 'probably'. |
| 10:26.37 | olafski | adys: that botanicalls thing is pretty cool though :D |
| 10:26.43 | olafski | her talk is humorous |
| 10:26.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Sargeras_ (~Sargeras@cpe-72-129-100-195.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 10:26.56 | Adys | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in6RZzdGki8 |
| 10:30.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (~Wobin@124-171-14-54.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 10:31.11 | olafski | wtf is that :P |
| 10:31.40 | olafski | hilarious :D |
| 10:32.37 | olafski | I'm laughing out loud at nearly every death :o |
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| 10:46.44 | Fisker | zenzelezz |
| 10:49.27 | ZorbaTHut | olafski, http://www.youtube.com/user/raocow |
| 10:56.26 | Fisker | ZorbaTHut |
| 10:57.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@dsl4E5C064E.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 11:03.16 | ZorbaTHut | Fisker ZorbaTHut |
| 11:04.48 | Fisker | ZorbaTHut Fisker ZorbaTHut |
| 11:05.31 | ZorbaTHut | olafski ZorbaTHut Fisker ZorbaTHut |
| 11:06.05 | Fisker | 4chan'd |
| 11:06.14 | Fisker | http://ekstrabladet.dk/112/article1314087.ece <-ownt |
| 11:06.21 | Wobin | http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_SqhhJb_P3Kk/S5zvuyi7P4I/AAAAAAAALWE/tg6WEFchrPM/s1600-h/elephant+vs+monitor.jpg |
| 11:06.24 | Wobin | elephant wins |
| 11:07.29 | zenzio | Wobin: lol |
| 11:08.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Teomyr (teo@HSI-KBW-085-216-123-189.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 11:10.28 | Adys | hey look |
| 11:10.30 | Adys | its quotedude |
| 11:14.04 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (~airtonix@unaffiliated/airtonix) |
| 11:32.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (~Kaso@studio.fuzemedia.co.uk) |
| 11:34.58 | ZorbaTHut | goddamn, terrible pugs today |
| 11:35.23 | ZorbaTHut | joined another instance three pulls from the final boss |
| 11:35.47 | ZorbaTHut | second pull casts an AoE fear that happens to fear one member directly into the final pull, which happens to silence the healer, who drops immediately |
| 11:36.30 | zenzio | instance? |
| 11:36.38 | ZorbaTHut | mana tombs, I think |
| 11:36.47 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Got a second to look at a math problem for me? |
| 11:36.50 | ZorbaTHut | sure |
| 11:36.53 | DWSR | http://mathbin.net/44532 |
| 11:36.59 | DWSR | Simplify, plz. |
| 11:37.10 | DWSR | I feel like it should be doable, however I can't think of *how* |
| 11:37.30 | DWSR | delta M and M are seperate terms. |
| 11:38.03 | ZorbaTHut | I didn't get through calculus much, does delta-m have to be dealt with in any special way or is it basically a unique identifier? |
| 11:42.50 | ZorbaTHut | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:43.23 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: It's a unique identifier. |
| 11:43.33 | DWSR | It's the measurement uncertainty of m |
| 11:45.10 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (spode@213-21-77-27.bon.t3.se) |
| 11:45.16 | ZorbaTHut | I don't see any obvious way to do it |
| 11:46.24 | DWSR | Not even breaking the expression into 2 fractions of common denominator? |
| 11:46.40 | ZorbaTHut | hey nice, http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=simplify+%28a*b^2+%2B+2*c*b*d%29%2F%28a*b+%2B+c*d%29 |
| 11:46.41 | ZorbaTHut | there ya go |
| 11:46.49 | DWSR | Fuck you. :P |
| 11:47.06 | ZorbaTHut | ;) |
| 11:49.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Kody- (kody@wsip-24-120-243-27.lv.lv.cox.net) |
| 11:49.53 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Kody-] by ChanServ |
| 11:52.21 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 11:53.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Kody (kody@wsip-24-120-243-27.lv.lv.cox.net) |
| 11:57.43 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Is there a way to get Mathematica to NOT FUCKING INTEPRET THIS SHIT AS CONSTANTS? |
| 11:58.47 | DWSR | nevermind |
| 12:00.11 | Fisker | slaps DWSR around a bit with a large trout |
| 12:03.18 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 12:04.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Aelobin (~Aelobin@85.211.91.94) |
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| 12:08.01 | Adys | anyone knows how KBArticle_BeginLoading works? if it relies on an event or |
| 12:11.05 | Fisker | ~seen Shadowed |
| 12:11.08 | purl | shadowed is currently on #wowuidev (7h 24m 23s) #wowace (7h 24m 23s), last said: 'probably'. |
| 12:11.22 | *** join/#wowuidev robotusch (~robotusch@50A2DCE4.flatrate.dk) |
| 12:11.23 | olafski | mm.. 2 out of 3 transmutes procced today :> |
| 12:11.36 | olafski | I should really start keeping track of this, wonder what the actual procrate is :< |
| 12:12.06 | *** join/#wowuidev fathom (fathom@morpheus.net) |
| 12:13.12 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut |
| 12:13.18 | DWSR | You should see tihs equation that I had to simplify. |
| 12:13.21 | DWSR | It's a fucking monstry. |
| 12:13.23 | DWSR | monster* |
| 12:14.59 | olafski | lol I read monastery |
| 12:15.08 | olafski | was thinking "huh is that a way to describe something horrible?" |
| 12:15.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Kazie (~Kazie@port207.ds1-vg.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 12:15.18 | *** join/#wowuidev boshi23 (~chris@c-68-36-37-83.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 12:18.39 | *** part/#wowuidev fathom (fathom@morpheus.net) |
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| 12:27.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (~Lopeppepp@141.222.29.18) |
| 12:27.21 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 12:30.21 | zenzio | y helo thar peppy |
| 12:30.29 | Lopeppeppy | Good morning, dear. |
| 12:30.32 | zenzio | hands any better? |
| 12:30.43 | Lopeppeppy | Nope. |
| 12:30.50 | zenzio | :( |
| 12:30.58 | zenzio | when is it supposed to improve? |
| 12:31.14 | Lopeppeppy | It's gonna take a month or two or three of PT to see real improvement, darlin'. If any improvement at all. |
| 12:31.28 | zenzio | :-/ |
| 12:32.29 | Lopeppeppy | It's just time. |
| 12:33.01 | Lopeppeppy | At least they're not saying, let's chop that open and see what else we can do! |
| 12:37.20 | *** join/#wowuidev kbsd (k@unaffiliated/kbsd) |
| 12:37.34 | DWSR | Sleep"? |
| 12:37.40 | DWSR | SLEEP IS FOR WHEN YOU'RE DEAD |
| 12:37.41 | DWSR | RAWR |
| 12:37.59 | DWSR | Allnighter: Success! |
| 12:38.37 | *** join/#wowuidev jadakren (~airtonix@unaffiliated/airtonix) |
| 12:39.01 | zenzio | orly? |
| 12:39.10 | DWSR | yep |
| 12:39.25 | DWSR | Sleep, for the weak, it is. |
| 12:40.15 | Lopeppeppy | Sleep is for the weak. The sane, well-adjusted weak, but the weak nevertheless. |
| 12:40.32 | DWSR | I am thoroughly confident that either a) a 24 hour day is too short. |
| 12:40.40 | zenzio | remember that allnighters don't end at daybreak, they end at sunset |
| 12:40.41 | DWSR | or b) people just need to stay up *and* sleep longer. |
| 12:41.18 | Fisker | omg you're killing me zenzio |
| 12:41.52 | Cairenn | huggles Lopeppeppy |
| 12:42.20 | Fisker | Ã |
| 12:42.22 | DWSR | zenzio: All nighters end at sunset. The next day. |
| 12:42.33 | DWSR | 48 hours of wakefulness? |
| 12:42.35 | DWSR | Pft. |
| 12:42.37 | zenzio | DWSR: that's what I said |
| 12:42.42 | DWSR | Jack Bauer aint got shit on me. |
| 12:42.43 | zenzio | and it's more like 40 hours |
| 12:42.50 | DWSR | zenzio: Weakling. |
| 12:42.53 | Lopeppeppy | Morning, Cairenn! |
| 12:42.57 | DWSR | :P |
| 12:43.02 | DWSR | Evening Cairenn! |
| 12:43.04 | zenzio | quite simply you're likely to have slept at some point |
| 12:43.07 | Cairenn | hi |
| 12:43.30 | DWSR | zenzio: You'd be surprised at how well adjusted to sleep deprivation I am. :P |
| 12:43.42 | DWSR | 50 hour stints are not uncommon |
| 12:44.03 | zenzio | then that's two all-nighters, not one |
| 12:44.13 | DWSR | lol |
| 12:44.23 | DWSR | Anyway. |
| 12:44.24 | DWSR | :D |
| 12:50.22 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@d86-32-145-154.cust.tele2.at) |
| 13:01.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 13:02.23 | Kraps | http://www.thedailyblink.com/2010/03/the-cataclysm-feature-were-waiting-for/ |
| 13:03.23 | zenzio | wouldn't surprise me if that happened. EQ2 had that with pizza for a while, didn't they? |
| 13:04.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Schnaks (~Schnaks@p5486CF29.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:05.42 | DWSR | http://www.thedailyblink.com/2010/01/our-sister-publication/ |
| 13:05.47 | DWSR | rofl |
| 13:06.33 | zenzio | I'd buy that |
| 13:06.45 | DWSR | I would too |
| 13:09.03 | DWSR | Anyone here use Gatherer? |
| 13:09.14 | haste | no-one |
| 13:09.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (~Lunessa@WoWUIDev/Lunessa) |
| 13:09.40 | Lunessa | station |
| 13:09.45 | haste | sony |
| 13:10.11 | Lunessa | bus, gas, space, way, train, etc. |
| 13:10.49 | DWSR | when do instance locks reset? 8am ST? |
| 13:11.11 | haste | 9AM? |
| 13:11.46 | Lunessa | 9am Pacific I think. |
| 13:14.22 | olafski | I use gatherer.. why? |
| 13:17.08 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 13:18.40 | zenzio | Lopeppeppy: did you make sure to log out before you left home? http://icanhascheezburger.com/2010/03/15/funny-pictures-teh-strangers/ |
| 13:19.35 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (harl@dslb-084-063-114-149.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:20.11 | DWSR | olafski: I'm having problems getting the latest version to run |
| 13:20.16 | DWSR | olafski: Wondering if you were getting the same issues. |
| 13:20.21 | olafski | hm haven't noticed any errors |
| 13:20.26 | olafski | then again I don't gather stuff very often |
| 13:20.29 | DWSR | olafski: Like, it won't open the config menu and won't do anything it's supposed to do it. |
| 13:20.51 | nevcairiel | Use GatherMate instead ;) |
| 13:21.02 | harl | hi |
| 13:21.18 | Kalroth | its harl |
| 13:21.22 | haste | haroo |
| 13:21.31 | olafski | I generally use carbonite instead nevcairiel |
| 13:21.53 | Kalroth | ick |
| 13:21.53 | nevcairiel | ewww |
| 13:22.09 | airtonix | lulz |
| 13:22.29 | Kalroth | saying "I use carbonite" is almost as bad as saying "I get into raids because of my high GearScore" |
| 13:22.43 | olafski | yeah I really care about everyone's opinion on what addons I use :P |
| 13:23.00 | Kalroth | obviously you do! |
| 13:23.09 | harl | you *really* shouldn't |
| 13:23.18 | olafski | and I don't |
| 13:23.19 | olafski | :) |
| 13:23.27 | Kalroth | in this case he should! |
| 13:23.44 | nevcairiel | I dont care what other people think, but i have my own dignity |
| 13:24.02 | Kalroth | *said nevcairiel and continued to search for his pants* |
| 13:24.14 | olafski | me too.. I use what works best for me ;) |
| 13:24.16 | nevcairiel | i dont wear pants at home |
| 13:24.26 | Kalroth | oh, I thought you were at work |
| 13:24.38 | harl | funny one |
| 13:25.31 | nevcairiel | i dont work |
| 13:25.33 | nevcairiel | ..today |
| 13:26.05 | Kalroth | isn't convinced. |
| 13:26.29 | Lopeppeppy | I'm not wearing pants... |
| 13:26.35 | airtonix | gidgity |
| 13:27.13 | Ginji | same here, but that's just because I just rolled out of bed |
| 13:27.21 | Kalroth | not wearing pants at home is a defacto standard |
| 13:27.34 | Kalroth | I'd actually be worried if someone did wear pants at home |
| 13:28.11 | olafski | I wear 3 pairs of pants, 3 sweaters and gloves |
| 13:28.15 | olafski | among other things |
| 13:28.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Matilda_ (~alexia@69.73.16.202) |
| 13:28.36 | airtonix | kitchen sink? |
| 13:28.52 | harl | fuuunnyy |
| 13:28.55 | harl | woot |
| 13:28.58 | airtonix | -_- |
| 13:29.02 | olafski | no sinks no |
| 13:30.37 | frontendloader | http://cg.scs.carleton.ca/~morin/misc/sortalg/ this is neat |
| 13:31.16 | frontendloader | bonus points if you can get your stoogesort to finish |
| 13:32.06 | DWSR | frontendloader: You a student at Carleton? |
| 13:32.15 | frontendloader | bi |
| 13:32.17 | frontendloader | no |
| 13:39.35 | olafski | heapsort beat quicksort zomg! |
| 13:40.34 | nevcairiel | of course it did |
| 13:40.53 | olafski | it was an interesting race |
| 13:40.57 | olafski | stoogesort is still at it :( |
| 13:43.06 | nevcairiel | heapsort is especially good if your stuff is already a max-heap |
| 13:49.05 | *** join/#wowuidev xilcoy (~xilcoy@61-217-147-212.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 13:51.22 | olafski | wow there are no empty dvds in this house.. how am I going to burn win7 now :( |
| 13:51.22 | zenzio | but backing up all that porn was worth it |
| 13:51.22 | nevcairiel | install from a usb stick |
| 13:51.22 | olafski | hm I have a 2gb stick.. guess that won't do :) |
| 13:51.33 | nevcairiel | nope, 4gb is fine though |
| 13:51.34 | olafski | I never backup anything |
| 13:51.45 | nevcairiel | i have like 20 of those, if you pick one up you can have it :P |
| 13:51.53 | olafski | heh |
| 13:52.03 | olafski | I think it's probably less work to buy a few empty dvds at the supermarket |
| 13:52.20 | olafski | oh maybe I do have a 4GB usb stick actually |
| 13:52.32 | olafski | dunno if my server supports booting from that stuff though |
| 13:52.49 | nevcairiel | how old is it? :d |
| 13:52.56 | olafski | dunno.. 5 years? |
| 13:53.03 | nevcairiel | should boot from usb then |
| 13:53.05 | olafski | it's a sempron 64 3400+ |
| 13:53.19 | olafski | can't find the stick now and I really shouldn't be trying this right now anyway I guess :P |
| 13:53.50 | olafski | can you "try" win7 without activating it like older versions? e.g. can I run it for a week and then decide if I want to activate it? |
| 13:54.02 | nevcairiel | sure |
| 13:54.04 | olafski | nice |
| 13:54.08 | olafski | I made that mistake with vista |
| 13:54.18 | nevcairiel | but still needs a key to install it either way |
| 13:54.22 | olafski | yeah that's ok |
| 13:54.32 | olafski | installed it on vmware, activated right away, deleted it, tried it again a few days later |
| 13:54.33 | nevcairiel | and MS doesnt particularly care |
| 13:54.42 | olafski | then when I got around to installing it for real I only had one activation left on my key |
| 13:54.43 | nevcairiel | if your key is locked, just use phone activation |
| 13:54.49 | nevcairiel | and it works fine |
| 13:55.04 | olafski | in this case it didn't work.. dunno why.. they told me to request a new key from MSDNAA |
| 13:55.13 | olafski | which took 1.5 years :P |
| 13:55.14 | nevcairiel | its a bit annoying, but its all automated, don't have to talk to anyone :D |
| 13:55.20 | olafski | hm no wait that was with XP |
| 13:55.47 | nevcairiel | I have 4 7 keys, and i basically used them all for something =( |
| 13:55.54 | olafski | :) |
| 13:56.11 | olafski | my gf's sister's boyfriend told me that win7 would be faster than xp even on such an old pc.. so I have to try it :) |
| 13:56.14 | nevcairiel | well one of them is a vmware build server |
| 13:56.36 | nevcairiel | its not like it needs to be 7 |
| 13:56.37 | olafski | won't be a fair comparison I guess since this pc hasn't been reinstalled for years, but still.. if it's not horribly slow I'll keep it |
| 13:56.40 | nevcairiel | have loads of vista keys too |
| 13:57.35 | nevcairiel | i should save all those keys until they take away my msdnaa access |
| 13:57.36 | olafski | I went to some expo last weekend with a lot of IT companies to talk to them, get a feel about what I could do after my study.. most of them seemed to like prefer asp.net over php for instance so I've started looking at that ;p |
| 13:57.41 | olafski | yeah me too :) |
| 13:58.03 | olafski | though isn't it technically illegal if you use your key without actually having msdnaa access? |
| 13:58.11 | nevcairiel | no, its not |
| 13:58.11 | olafski | not much different from using a pirated copy, license-wise |
| 13:58.13 | olafski | oh |
| 13:58.18 | olafski | hmm. |
| 13:58.23 | nevcairiel | the license allows you to keep using it |
| 13:58.26 | olafski | I'll be extra careful with my keys then |
| 13:58.26 | nevcairiel | as long as its not commercial |
| 13:58.35 | olafski | I do use it commercially at times though =( |
| 13:58.56 | nevcairiel | thats already a license violation when you are still a student :d |
| 13:59.26 | olafski | yeah |
| 13:59.44 | olafski | tough luck.. I make like 1k euro a year with this, I don't feel too bad about it |
| 14:00.16 | olafski | a windows license isn't that expensive though, guess I'll have to pay for it eventually |
| 14:00.29 | airtonix | muwahah or court fees |
| 14:02.01 | olafski | don't think I'm that much at risk |
| 14:02.10 | airtonix | ~logs |
| 14:02.11 | purl | All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged. logs are updated daily |
| 14:02.14 | airtonix | muwahah |
| 14:02.15 | olafski | if they catch me I'll make a deal to rat out someone with much more illegal stuff! |
| 14:02.38 | olafski | lines starting with spaces are not logged? hmmm |
| 14:02.43 | airtonix | but to be honest they would rather you use a pirated version of windows than something else |
| 14:02.51 | olafski | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:03.03 | nevcairiel | i dont use pirated software in general |
| 14:03.20 | airtonix | pirated software is just too much hassle and im too paranoid to use it |
| 14:03.35 | olafski | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:03.52 | airtonix | you've started using space prefixed messages too late btw |
| 14:03.58 | olafski | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:03.59 | nevcairiel | haha |
| 14:04.19 | olafski | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:04.33 | airtonix | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:04.37 | airtonix | just saying |
| 14:04.38 | olafski | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:05.16 | olafski | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:05.45 | olafski | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:06.35 | zenzio | <olafski> no, I think my law-breaking is limited to electronic activities <-- lies |
| 14:06.54 | airtonix | you know laser based speed detection is affected by high voltage transmissions lines to the degree that readinds from them are inadmissable in australian courts? |
| 14:07.21 | olafski | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:07.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh_ (~Srosh@c209068.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 14:13.11 | Arathros | aaaaaahh1!!! |
| 14:13.16 | Arathros | finally off school lol |
| 14:13.35 | olafski | whee |
| 14:13.41 | Arathros | freaking pre uni studies are tedious lol.. i want to start my university computer programming NAO |
| 14:14.02 | olafski | there's a uni degree on programming? :o |
| 14:14.07 | nevcairiel | wait a year, and you want to be done NOW |
| 14:14.10 | Arathros | for danish people there are ;P |
| 14:14.26 | Arathros | hehe well i know a tad programming already... so its gonna be a breeze ;P |
| 14:14.37 | olafski | sounds like a very high quality education :P |
| 14:14.46 | Arathros | why do you think i take it hehe |
| 14:14.54 | Arathros | 2½ years till i can start on it |
| 14:15.04 | Arathros | need math on top lvl before i can start |
| 14:15.13 | nevcairiel | math is overrated |
| 14:15.15 | olafski | I want to be done nao too nevcairiel :( |
| 14:15.16 | Arathros | so learning japanese, and french and german as extra courses ;P |
| 14:15.28 | foxlit | Looking at university campuses, math is underrated. |
| 14:15.31 | Arathros | math is simple but dam our mathteacher screwed us today lol |
| 14:15.58 | Arathros | he said.. close the laptops.. put away the cells. and calculators.. now we go back to basic math FOR FUN ;P |
| 14:16.09 | nevcairiel | olafski: i'm getting my diploma on friday \o/ |
| 14:16.12 | Arathros | do you know how many years ago it is since i divided large numbers on paper lol |
| 14:16.13 | olafski | nice! |
| 14:16.21 | olafski | couple months more for me nev :( |
| 14:16.31 | Arathros | nevcairiel diploma in what? |
| 14:16.40 | nevcairiel | computer science, of yourse |
| 14:16.43 | Arathros | nice |
| 14:16.44 | nevcairiel | course* |
| 14:16.55 | Arathros | compu sience.. includes what knowledge? |
| 14:17.00 | Arathros | how to install win95? |
| 14:17.02 | foxlit | per-course dimplomas? |
| 14:17.12 | foxlit | s/m// |
| 14:17.30 | olafski | it's science arathros, not how-to |
| 14:17.35 | Arathros | hehe |
| 14:17.45 | Arathros | so what stuff is included.. give me hints. |
| 14:17.47 | nevcairiel | its pretty much focused on software development, some hardware stuff, and of course theory |
| 14:17.52 | Arathros | cause computer science can mean anything ;P |
| 14:18.11 | Arathros | aaah kewl.. same shit as I'm getting just the 6 year version ;P |
| 14:18.21 | A-KO | I find that people who do comp sci but don't have a basic understanding of IT tend to be terrible at software development :) |
| 14:18.34 | Arathros | hehe |
| 14:18.48 | A-KO | "What do you mean I can't have my application broadcasting data to the network every second?" |
| 14:18.54 | A-KO | "It works, doesn't it?" |
| 14:18.55 | Arathros | hehe |
| 14:19.09 | A-KO | FYI, That's a true story about a project I'm on right now :) (The IT side) |
| 14:19.18 | Arathros | lol is all i can say |
| 14:19.24 | nevcairiel | we basically have 4 types of CS, the basic CS that i took, which focuses on software dev, then more technical approach for hardware, then a business-oriented type, and last a media-version focused on 3D, VR, Artwork design, and all that |
| 14:19.40 | olafski | pretty much the same breakdown here |
| 14:19.43 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-68-32-134-121.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 14:19.53 | olafski | one CS bachelor, which then splits up into a couple of master tracks |
| 14:20.16 | olafski | software engineering, embedded systems, human media interaction, computer security.. I think that's it |
| 14:20.19 | nevcairiel | we have 4 bachelors and one master type, fwiw =P |
| 14:20.25 | olafski | oh |
| 14:20.40 | Fisker | http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=12899880950&postId=128987804356&sid=1#3 <-the best non-troll that looks like a troll response |
| 14:20.44 | nevcairiel | but master is just caleld the same, you can pick your specific focus |
| 14:21.00 | nevcairiel | bachelor is seperate degrees |
| 14:21.22 | A-KO | I wish they would separate the IT elements out of Comp Sci a little more, or have more parallel tracks to it. Around here, "Computer Science" is mistaken for "learning how to work on computers" because it has "computer" in the name. |
| 14:21.30 | A-KO | Yet the actual IT track around here is called "Information Systems" |
| 14:21.55 | nevcairiel | we dont call it comp-sci either, but english people do, so i used that |
| 14:21.56 | olafski | oh, here computer science is interpreted as "become a professional diagram-drawer" =) |
| 14:22.45 | Arathros | Fisker i like his quote ;P |
| 14:22.59 | Arathros | let me see what the basic programmer in denmark learns |
| 14:23.09 | nevcairiel | We call it "Informatik" .. informatics .. or computer science .. according to that dictionary P |
| 14:23.16 | A-KO | The undergrads here also tend to learn more about the programming language and less about what they're programming for. They learn how to write some apps in C under linux, learn some java--and then that's that. They don't take any courses that bring in the idea of real-world software development. |
| 14:23.40 | DWSR | A-KO: That seems to be an oversight in most CS programs. |
| 14:23.41 | olafski | we call it that too nevcairiel :) but the official english name for this education is computer science according to the english website of my university |
| 14:23.44 | DWSR | A-KO: It is here. |
| 14:23.50 | foxlit | Because CS != Software development. |
| 14:24.11 | A-KO | foxlit: I know, but they don't really distinguish it when they're explaining it to people :P |
| 14:24.15 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 14:24.17 | olafski | this is odd.. I keep hearing this complaint about CS, yet I get the feeling in "our" CS it's the opposite |
| 14:24.27 | DWSR | We haev a "software engineering" program at this university. |
| 14:24.39 | DWSR | I haven't looked into it, but I would *imagine* it's a bit better. |
| 14:24.45 | foxlit | If one's goal was to be a programming, the CS undergraduate programmes are overkill at best, and mostly wasted at wourse. |
| 14:24.47 | olafski | that's the MSc I'm doing +) |
| 14:24.47 | Arathros | wish that schools would make a fucking name standard lol |
| 14:24.50 | A-KO | I think it's most of the time because the counselors don't understand the differences either. |
| 14:24.50 | Arathros | and grade standard |
| 14:24.58 | foxlit | mangled to the max, it appears. |
| 14:25.02 | Arathros | so the western world actually can talk together ;P |
| 14:25.07 | olafski | foxlit: is "undergraduate" the same as a bachelor's degree? |
| 14:25.13 | A-KO | yes olafski |
| 14:25.16 | olafski | okay |
| 14:25.18 | foxlit | I'm the wrong person to ask. |
| 14:25.25 | olafski | yeah the way it's taught here that really seems like a bad way to learn to program |
| 14:25.30 | nevcairiel | We basically have "Computer Science", "Computer Engineering", "Information Systems", and the media thing doesnt have a real translation =( |
| 14:25.41 | olafski | we got 2 courses on Java in the first year and that was it with the programming in the BSc |
| 14:25.56 | nevcairiel | what is actually taught in those courses depends on the university you go to |
| 14:25.59 | A-KO | this is why so much software is written in Java :P |
| 14:26.23 | olafski | it might also be.. because it's probably quite a good language |
| 14:26.30 | olafski | or useful |
| 14:26.37 | Arathros | 15 courses to complete ;P |
| 14:26.48 | olafski | I dunno.. I got the impression that nearly every company I talked to last saturday was more interested in .NET than anything else |
| 14:27.00 | A-KO | nevcairiel: yeah, the issue is that it's not clearly laid out to people, because Comp Sci has programming, people are put into it if they like programming. Because it has "computer" in the name, people are put into it because they like "computers". I've had more than enough friends who dropped out of Comp Sci and went into IS after the fact. |
| 14:27.05 | Arathros | hmm can one use lua for websites? |
| 14:27.10 | zenzio | .NET is okay, but more so it's a buzz word |
| 14:27.10 | A-KO | yes Arathros |
| 14:27.16 | zenzio | like XML ten years ago |
| 14:27.16 | foxlit | one can use lua for websites. |
| 14:27.22 | foxlit | One may also use goat sacrifices for websites. |
| 14:27.23 | A-KO | heh, I'm liking the new stuff in VS 2010 |
| 14:27.25 | Arathros | without xml? ;P |
| 14:27.26 | olafski | zenzio: yes.. a buzzword which I want on my CV :) |
| 14:27.29 | zenzio | "oh, you use .NET? We take it!" |
| 14:27.43 | nevcairiel | A-KO: well its probably defined differently in other places too |
| 14:27.48 | A-KO | VS2010 comes with a virtual machine and tracks/catalogs every change software makes. So you can see exactly where it's crashing and what interaction is happening to make it crash |
| 14:28.09 | nevcairiel | my CompSci was pretty much focused on Software Dev alone |
| 14:28.20 | foxlit | That's different from a debugger how? |
| 14:28.25 | nevcairiel | if you want something else, pick CompEng or IS |
| 14:28.28 | foxlit | Does it actually backtrack properly? |
| 14:28.29 | Arathros | cause you can see the crash lol |
| 14:28.48 | Arathros | play wow or mod my addon |
| 14:28.57 | nevcairiel | If you want to be a theory-person, do the masters, too |
| 14:29.01 | A-KO | Computer Engineering is even further away from any sort of IT |
| 14:29.20 | foxlit | Generally, software development oriented courses were the worst part of this bachelor program. |
| 14:29.20 | Arathros | hmm about a dropdown.. isnt it just as easy to make a frame and have it hide and unhide depending on a button... so you can keep it open if you wish |
| 14:29.23 | Kaso | Am i imagining things or was the wowprogramming website done in lua? |
| 14:29.35 | foxlit | Kaso: you're probably not imagining things |
| 14:29.36 | Arathros | hmm any lua pages out there? |
| 14:29.46 | Arathros | want to see how they are ;P |
| 14:29.57 | nevcairiel | wowprogramming was written in lua |
| 14:30.07 | nevcairiel | its a scripting language like any other |
| 14:30.13 | zenzio | you're unlikely to see anything but HTML |
| 14:30.20 | foxlit | http://sputnik.freewisdom.org/ |
| 14:30.25 | olafski | unlikely is an understatement I bet ;) |
| 14:30.25 | nevcairiel | its just not wide-spread |
| 14:30.34 | A-KO | I wish all the development programs eventually led to a business and targetted track, you know, like you get an introduction to programming and then a few years later you choose a focus of your development, and you spend a year doing that. The reality is that IT, programming, and all of that--it's more than 4 year's worth of work :P |
| 14:30.55 | A-KO | hell I still read multi hundred page books when I need to learn something... |
| 14:31.00 | A-KO | like they're nothing... |
| 14:31.09 | Arathros | A-KO thats the way they do it in denmark |
| 14:31.19 | olafski | what? I thought programming was just a 1 year course you take and then you can do everything :( |
| 14:31.28 | olafski | "stand aside! I know regex!" |
| 14:31.34 | nevcairiel | we had basics in software dev, projects to teach you teamwork and project/time management, basics in business stuff, and of course more then basics in math |
| 14:31.36 | Arathros | you get the basic and after either 6months 1 year or 2 years. you specialize in one area or more. depending what you choose |
| 14:32.08 | zenzio | who needs education when you have Teach Yourself X In 24 Hours? |
| 14:32.17 | nevcairiel | it won't make you the perfect programmer by far |
| 14:32.18 | A-KO | haha zenzelezz |
| 14:32.20 | A-KO | zenzio* |
| 14:32.23 | nevcairiel | it gives you the tools to learn |
| 14:33.01 | nevcairiel | They try to teach you a structured approach to problems, and all that, not try to force all necessary knowledge in you |
| 14:33.13 | nevcairiel | at least at my university |
| 14:33.39 | A-KO | My biggest issue is that they don't even learn what they're writing for....I know comp sci majors who get their machines all virused up, ask me to come fix them, etc... |
| 14:33.40 | olafski | same here +) |
| 14:34.04 | olafski | I know those too.. but I don't think "how to keep your computer safe from viruses" has any place in this education |
| 14:34.08 | A-KO | or the devs at my company (well, a contractor)--the way they do things makes network engineers and systems engineers everywhere cry |
| 14:34.27 | nevcairiel | consulting devs are always fail :D |
| 14:34.31 | Arathros | how to keep it safe.. as a dev. make your own shit lol |
| 14:34.37 | nevcairiel | read more dailywtf :) |
| 14:34.49 | A-KO | they code their software on 4-8 core machines with 32GB ram and 8G VMs, and then when it comes down to the real world when IT has to define what we need to buy, and we can only afford lower end systems, the application crashes. |
| 14:35.01 | A-KO | or chews up resources |
| 14:35.28 | Arathros | thats why you make it for a low end ;P |
| 14:35.41 | nevcairiel | you make it for what it needs to function |
| 14:35.43 | A-KO | Arathros: tell them that, lol. |
| 14:36.00 | Arathros | all that are doing comp science has a laptop |
| 14:36.00 | theorbtwo | olafski: No, but basic knowladge of computer security does. |
| 14:36.01 | Arathros | use that |
| 14:36.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Zilcha (zilcha@193.219.39.203) |
| 14:36.21 | Zilcha | good afternoon |
| 14:36.23 | A-KO | Arathros: these developers assume memory and cpu resources are infinite |
| 14:36.25 | nevcairiel | software devs shouldnt worry about hardware requirements really, but if your app uses 6g of memory, you should get a hint that something is going wrong |
| 14:36.37 | theorbtwo | How does the security model of windows works? How does it compare to other security models? |
| 14:36.45 | Arathros | hehe |
| 14:36.58 | theorbtwo | What is the basic problem of trust on the internet? |
| 14:36.58 | A-KO | theorbtwo: That would be a good idea |
| 14:37.05 | Arathros | if you are a dev. and trust windows.. you prob should redo your edu |
| 14:37.10 | theorbtwo | What is the great problem of SMTP? |
| 14:37.15 | olafski | oh dear.. we got a youngster smartass |
| 14:37.29 | A-KO | Arathros: Windows is actually pretty good these days :P At least in the latest iterations. |
| 14:37.32 | Arathros | youngster smartass? if thats me.. I'm just smartass ;P |
| 14:37.33 | nevcairiel | Arathros: if you think that, you should get some life experience first :) |
| 14:37.36 | olafski | that's you yes arathros |
| 14:37.54 | olafski | I assumed youngster from the fact that you're not at uni yet ;) |
| 14:37.56 | nevcairiel | Not the OS makes your system secure |
| 14:37.56 | nevcairiel | the user does |
| 14:38.00 | Arathros | well windows is getting better. but it doesnt help that they takes more and more rescorces |
| 14:38.01 | theorbtwo | If you don't understand the basic problems of computer security, you will write insecure systems, and that *is* a problem for an IT/CS education. |
| 14:38.06 | olafski | arathros: oh come on |
| 14:38.11 | A-KO | Arathros: what do you mean? |
| 14:38.18 | zenzio | how much resources they take has nothing to do with security |
| 14:38.18 | olafski | arathros: "hi I'm arathros and I'm repeating what all the ms haters say" |
| 14:38.19 | nevcairiel | my windows uses 6gb of ram |
| 14:38.24 | nevcairiel | but i want it to |
| 14:38.31 | nevcairiel | because it speeds up my system by doing so! |
| 14:38.32 | Arathros | how much space did win 95 take.. compare that with win7 ;P |
| 14:38.38 | A-KO | theorbtwo: this is true, and it's unfortunately something not a whole lot of people learn period. It in itself is also a complex thing to learn, information security :P |
| 14:38.44 | olafski | nevcairiel: that fits nicely with your previous quote about 6gb :D |
| 14:38.46 | olafski | mine only uses 4gb :( |
| 14:38.52 | zenzio | Arathros: that's not even a half-valid comparison |
| 14:39.01 | nevcairiel | i have 8, and i assumed 2 for apps i run :d |
| 14:39.02 | Arathros | take xp and win7 then |
| 14:39.11 | Arathros | my win 7 atm 15gb |
| 14:39.12 | nevcairiel | so harddisk space is relevant? |
| 14:39.22 | olafski | yeah I really care about hdd space |
| 14:39.24 | nevcairiel | i have movies that are bigger then 15gb |
| 14:39.24 | olafski | it's so expensive!! |
| 14:39.30 | theorbtwo | A-KO: Yes, it is a complex topic, but an introductory course can teach a lot. Depth is for later. |
| 14:39.31 | A-KO | Arathros: Comparatively speaking Windows 3.1 and DOS6.22 took up about 13MB of my 40MB hard drive to run, required 4MB of system ram. That equates to about 30% of my HD (after doing the math conversions), and when I wanted to play a game I had to reboot and hold in shift to unload TSRs. |
| 14:39.35 | A-KO | I don't have to do that these days |
| 14:39.53 | Arathros | hehe |
| 14:40.00 | A-KO | Trust me, it has come a LOOOONG way. |
| 14:40.13 | Arathros | no shit... good ol days... miss my 386 ;P |
| 14:40.16 | A-KO | and nevcairiel is correct, Windows Vista/7 with Superfetch using your ram is a desirable thing :P |
| 14:40.34 | nevcairiel | vista superfetch isnt really that worth using |
| 14:40.39 | nevcairiel | but with 7, its teh awesome |
| 14:40.39 | zenzio | free memory is wasted memory. As long as you're not swapping a lot, you're good |
| 14:40.52 | DWSR | zenzio: I disagree. |
| 14:40.52 | olafski | nevcairiel: 7 makes it better? cool |
| 14:41.06 | DWSR | olafski: Yep |
| 14:41.07 | nevcairiel | free memory is wasted memory |
| 14:41.07 | Arathros | when i photoshop i screw the ram space up lol |
| 14:41.09 | nevcairiel | why not use it? |
| 14:41.12 | DWSR | Superfetch in 7 is good |
| 14:41.18 | DWSR | nevcairiel: Then it's not wasted, is it? |
| 14:41.29 | olafski | I get the feeling superfetch at least has a too high priority in vista |
| 14:41.44 | nevcairiel | if i can use my free memory to speed up my windows |
| 14:41.47 | theorbtwo | Once you start using it, it clearly isn't wasted anymore... or free. |
| 14:41.48 | olafski | when I close down a 1.5GB game my pc seems slow for a bit until all the ram is in use again |
| 14:41.49 | nevcairiel | why not? |
| 14:41.50 | nevcairiel | :D |
| 14:41.57 | A-KO | If you want to see how your system in Windows is handling memory, check the Page Reads/second counter :P If that counter is high most of the time, you've got memory issues with your system. (it's the hard fault counter) |
| 14:42.08 | A-KO | olafski: WoW definitely does that to me but nothing else does |
| 14:42.15 | nevcairiel | some apps are terrible at that, though |
| 14:42.16 | A-KO | and I've got an SSD, no superfetch enabled. |
| 14:42.21 | nevcairiel | they produce hard faults all the time |
| 14:42.36 | DWSR | WoW produces hard faults for me all the freaking time., |
| 14:42.50 | olafski | not really something I (want to) monitor |
| 14:42.53 | A-KO | does it? I played WoW and turned on the counter and the hard faults weren't a steady stream |
| 14:42.55 | olafski | I prefer my OS to just "work" |
| 14:42.59 | olafski | hence why I use windows ;) |
| 14:43.14 | DWSR | lol |
| 14:43.16 | A-KO | it came in spurts, but nothing where I could go "yeah we should probably boost the memory." |
| 14:43.17 | olafski | wouldn't give a frak even if it would take up 300GB of disk space |
| 14:43.22 | DWSR | WoW is currently using up 1GB of fucking RAM? |
| 14:43.31 | Lopeppeppy | I can believe that. |
| 14:43.33 | Arathros | my wow uses 2gb ;P |
| 14:43.37 | DWSR | Fucking fail. |
| 14:43.40 | DWSR | I'm not even doing anything. |
| 14:43.41 | A-KO | yeah my WoW pushes 1.5-1.6GB |
| 14:43.42 | DWSR | I'm sitting in SW. |
| 14:43.52 | nevcairiel | switch to the new texture engine, and your memory goes down :d |
| 14:43.58 | Arathros | its cache ;P faster loading times |
| 14:43.58 | nevcairiel | well not down |
| 14:44.00 | zenzio | what level settings are you using? |
| 14:44.04 | nevcairiel | but out-sourced! |
| 14:44.04 | DWSR | nevcairiel: I'm using the texture engine. |
| 14:44.07 | theorbtwo | I'd actually expect sitting in a busy city to be one of the harder things. |
| 14:44.11 | DWSR | zenzio: HQ textures. |
| 14:44.13 | nevcairiel | hence why you only have 1gb |
| 14:44.14 | olafski | nevcairiel: how do I do that and are there drawbacks? ;) |
| 14:44.28 | olafski | and are there actual advantages ;p |
| 14:44.29 | nevcairiel | SET gxAPI "d3d9ex" |
| 14:44.35 | DWSR | olafski: Yes. |
| 14:44.44 | nevcairiel | its unlikely that you'll ever hit the 2gb border |
| 14:44.47 | DWSR | olafski: The new texture management system speeds up load times a lot. |
| 14:44.50 | DWSR | nevcairiel: I've hit it before. |
| 14:45.02 | olafski | hmm |
| 14:45.03 | DWSR | And yes, while using the new engine. |
| 14:45.04 | olafski | I'll give it a go |
| 14:45.08 | theorbtwo | New people, with different equipment, keep coming past you, and you keep having to fetch data on it. |
| 14:45.10 | nevcairiel | with textures out of wow's memory space, its unlikely |
| 14:45.28 | DWSR | nevcairiel: Well, WoW tried to allocate 100mb of memory, then died. |
| 14:45.30 | nevcairiel | you probably caught a leak somewhere :d |
| 14:45.30 | A-KO | is the new texturing engine live or still ptr? |
| 14:45.43 | DWSR | A-KO: Live. |
| 14:45.47 | DWSR | But disabled by default. |
| 14:45.55 | A-KO | interesting |
| 14:45.57 | A-KO | didn't know that |
| 14:46.04 | A-KO | it won't even detect? |
| 14:46.14 | DWSR | noope, have to manually enable it. |
| 14:46.25 | nevcairiel | i'm using opengl now because i get much better performance with it =( |
| 14:46.27 | A-KO | interesting |
| 14:47.02 | DWSR | nevcairiel: I smell Wine. |
| 14:47.08 | nevcairiel | no, on windows |
| 14:47.11 | DWSR | O_O |
| 14:47.18 | DWSR | What GPU do you have? |
| 14:47.24 | nevcairiel | gtx260 |
| 14:47.37 | DWSR | O.o |
| 14:47.38 | nevcairiel | with a i7 cpu |
| 14:47.40 | DWSR | wtf? |
| 14:47.44 | DWSR | Oh wait. |
| 14:47.48 | DWSR | No, that makes total sense. |
| 14:48.10 | olafski | my wow is at 919MB now, in dalaran |
| 14:48.25 | DWSR | nevcairiel: Isn't OpenGL software rendering? |
| 14:48.32 | ScytheBlade1 | .. no |
| 14:48.34 | foxlit | No, but yes. |
| 14:48.42 | nevcairiel | no, it doesnt make any sense, with that machine i shouldnt need to worry about rendering at all |
| 14:48.51 | nevcairiel | Yet with DX i get lags alot |
| 14:48.54 | foxlit | There are software backends, if you're so inclined, but the graphics card drivers usually provide a hardware renderer. |
| 14:49.39 | DWSR | nevcairiel: Which DX version do you have? |
| 14:49.40 | DWSR | 11? |
| 14:49.46 | nevcairiel | of course, this is 7 |
| 14:50.01 | DWSR | huh |
| 14:50.03 | DWSR | Wierd. |
| 14:50.14 | DWSR | I'll hhave to try that and see if it makes any difference on my W7 machine. |
| 14:50.14 | nevcairiel | its something blizz did wrong or nvidia screwed up |
| 14:50.26 | DWSR | nevcairiel: MS might have broken DX9 compatibility. |
| 14:50.47 | nevcairiel | many nvidia users have fps issues on recent systems, on a 5 year old game |
| 14:51.00 | nevcairiel | fun fact: i can turn up shadows to maximum and it doesnt affect fps at all |
| 14:51.03 | nevcairiel | shadows = cpu |
| 14:51.06 | olafski | it's not that "latest driver sucks" issue right? |
| 14:51.07 | DWSR | Lucky you |
| 14:51.11 | DWSR | I can't. |
| 14:51.19 | DWSR | It makes my framerate drop like a rock |
| 14:51.27 | nevcairiel | olafski: i tried previous generation drivers and all that |
| 14:51.29 | Arathros | shadows and particles clipples my pc |
| 14:51.34 | A-KO | ATI's cards definitely seem to have better performance in WoW than Nvidia's |
| 14:51.39 | nevcairiel | yeah |
| 14:51.43 | nevcairiel | i blame the 3D shit |
| 14:51.51 | DWSR | Arathros: Yeah, mine too. |
| 14:51.53 | nevcairiel | fps went down after it was added to WoW |
| 14:52.02 | DWSR | nevcairiel: You mean the PhysX shit>? |
| 14:52.07 | nevcairiel | ... no |
| 14:52.15 | Arathros | are there any physx? |
| 14:52.18 | DWSR | yes |
| 14:52.22 | nevcairiel | WoW doesnt use it |
| 14:52.29 | DWSR | Everything after the like 9800 has it. |
| 14:52.32 | Arathros | exactly so no was the answer ;P |
| 14:52.34 | nevcairiel | but WoW has a 3D mode |
| 14:52.48 | nevcairiel | and since it was added, it was going slower |
| 14:52.52 | nevcairiel | even if i dont install the 3d driver |
| 14:52.57 | nevcairiel | which i usually dont |
| 14:52.57 | Arathros | 3d mode |
| 14:52.58 | Arathros | ? |
| 14:53.04 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 14:53.35 | DWSR | Can I ask what the hell "Reduce Input Lag" actually *does*? |
| 14:53.52 | nevcairiel | stereoscopic 3D on nvidia cards with nvidia glasses or special screens |
| 14:54.01 | Arathros | aaah ok |
| 14:54.03 | Arathros | that 3d |
| 14:54.26 | Arathros | 2 sec checking on reduce |
| 14:54.47 | theorbtwo | Or, for that matter, red-blue glasses. |
| 14:54.48 | nevcairiel | its whats called "Smooth Mouse" in other games |
| 14:54.54 | DWSR | No, that's something else. |
| 14:54.58 | DWSR | *I think*. |
| 14:55.02 | foxlit | I thought it was some SLI-related trickery |
| 14:55.05 | DWSR | No. |
| 14:55.07 | DWSR | That it's not. |
| 14:55.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Cidwel (~58019a2b@gateway/web/freenode/x-xhhkxqnvgddjbnda) |
| 14:55.15 | Cidwel | hooray |
| 14:55.19 | Arathros | smooth mouse is hardware cursor |
| 14:55.20 | nevcairiel | It syncs the rendering to the input handler |
| 14:55.30 | nevcairiel | which usually reduces fps by alot |
| 14:55.31 | olafski | nevcairiel: isn't reduce input lag the same as turning smooth-mouse off? |
| 14:55.39 | A-KO | reduce input latency tends to drastically lower my FPS |
| 14:55.42 | A-KO | it's not just "smooth mouse" |
| 14:55.44 | nevcairiel | it does |
| 14:55.52 | nevcairiel | because it syncs input events with the rendering |
| 14:56.06 | DWSR | wouldn't that actually *slow* input? |
| 14:56.20 | nevcairiel | no, it slows rendering to be able to react faster to input events |
| 14:56.33 | nevcairiel | its a bogus option, there is no real reason to use it |
| 14:56.55 | Arathros | parrot sucks at counting |
| 14:57.04 | A-KO | interesting about the d3d9ex thing, as blizzard's techs say that it's supposed to be enabled by default, but sure enough if I go into the game and type "gxapi" into the console it says "d3d9" is the default. |
| 14:57.05 | Aelobin | is there a table of colour values that connects UnitReaction and UnitSelectionColor ? |
| 14:57.13 | Arathros | loots one chalcedony and it says. chalchedony +1 (2) |
| 14:57.19 | Arathros | and its the only one i have lol |
| 14:57.31 | nevcairiel | A-KO: it was default on a PTR for testing, maybe you read that post? |
| 14:58.02 | A-KO | oh, possibly nevcairiel |
| 14:58.52 | nevcairiel | Hm i wonder how much work it would be to write a directshow based video player |
| 14:58.59 | DWSR | Arathros: I don't think that's Parrot's fault. |
| 14:59.01 | nevcairiel | all the ones i tried fail on one aspet or another |
| 14:59.02 | DWSR | XLoot does that as well. |
| 14:59.28 | Ginji | btw there's no function that returns the number of unread mails right? |
| 14:59.35 | Ginji | or new mails for that matter |
| 14:59.59 | Ginji | !api mail |
| 15:00.01 | lua_bot | Found 28 possible matches for 'mail'. Please be more specific |
| 15:00.07 | Ginji | list them all! :P |
| 15:00.11 | Arathros | lol |
| 15:00.23 | Arathros | who is repsonsible for the lua bot code? |
| 15:00.27 | A-KO | http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api_categories#mail |
| 15:00.34 | nevcairiel | we still think it should just link you to the search field |
| 15:00.37 | nevcairiel | but hey, what can you do |
| 15:00.54 | Arathros | or just pm the results |
| 15:01.06 | amro | and get dc'd for flood |
| 15:01.09 | A-KO | http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/GetInboxHeaderInfo |
| 15:01.28 | Arathros | move to own server then ;P |
| 15:01.49 | Cidwel | uhm, anyone is having issues with notepad++ at loading? something like config xml file corrupted |
| 15:02.09 | Arathros | context ftw |
| 15:03.23 | zenzio | Cidwel: I think I had that problem once... did you try finding your config.xml file and renaming it? |
| 15:03.25 | Cidwel | why is better than notepad++? |
| 15:03.37 | Cidwel | yep zenzio, a lot of times |
| 15:03.43 | Arathros | my choise for god knows how many years |
| 15:03.47 | nevcairiel | if you think your config.xml is broken, just get rid of it? :d |
| 15:03.48 | Cidwel | but it also occurs in other computers |
| 15:03.50 | zenzio | I don't find ConTEXT that good. It's decent, but I prefer Notepad++ |
| 15:04.31 | Cidwel | nevcairel, even if you try to fix this, it only works for 2 or 3 days.. |
| 15:04.43 | Arathros | can i come with a quick fact about rel studies i had today |
| 15:04.47 | amro | this just in: hungry notepad++ eats config files |
| 15:04.52 | DWSR | Cidan: My N++ is working fine. |
| 15:04.57 | amro | switch to kate already =) |
| 15:05.32 | olafski | ultraedit! |
| 15:05.39 | Arathros | only thing i seems to have lost in context is the ability to "minimize" sections. |
| 15:05.47 | Arathros | olafski is UE free? |
| 15:05.57 | amro | if you like nagware |
| 15:06.05 | amro | at least that's what it used to be like |
| 15:06.07 | Arathros | then it sucks ;P |
| 15:06.07 | Cidwel | kate? it works for windows? |
| 15:06.11 | amro | yes |
| 15:06.12 | nevcairiel | UE is your typiclal shareware |
| 15:06.15 | amro | KDE4 for windows |
| 15:06.27 | Cidwel | lol |
| 15:06.33 | olafski | oh dear.. I'm starting to like this guy less with nearly every line he writes :P |
| 15:06.46 | olafski | "if you're a dev and you trust windows you suck" "is it free? no? then it sucks" |
| 15:07.01 | nevcairiel | UE sucks anyway |
| 15:07.04 | amro | ^ |
| 15:07.23 | olafski | that's a valid opinion.. but saying something sucks just because it's not free seems short sighted |
| 15:07.31 | nevcairiel | indeed |
| 15:07.41 | Cidwel | ...i'm sorry, I did not want to turn this into a flame |
| 15:07.42 | nevcairiel | as all those FOSS fanboys that wont use any binary software |
| 15:07.44 | amro | I think it was about the nagware part |
| 15:07.48 | olafski | nevcairiel: :) |
| 15:07.55 | Arathros | yep nagware sucks |
| 15:07.58 | nevcairiel | wonder if they have open-source firmwares for their washing machines |
| 15:08.19 | olafski | no clue what nagware is.. as nevcairiel said, ultraedit is shareware |
| 15:08.26 | amro | nevcairiel: I bet Stallman doesn't trust traffic lights |
| 15:08.27 | Arathros | i dont mind trails and buy application.. but having nagging ads and limitations just because they can.. thats just chinese |
| 15:08.30 | nevcairiel | nagware is annoying shareware |
| 15:08.37 | nevcairiel | that nags you to buy it all the time |
| 15:08.39 | theorbtwo | I think washing machines mostly (still) don't have firmware. |
| 15:08.49 | olafski | well, it's either that or just have the program disable itself completely after X days ;) |
| 15:08.58 | amro | they do, it's just not modifiable |
| 15:09.03 | Arathros | a.k.a. trail ;) |
| 15:09.04 | nevcairiel | theorbtwo: ours does, it broke once, a tech had to come and reset it <.< |
| 15:09.13 | olafski | trial* |
| 15:09.14 | theorbtwo | Could be wrong, of course. |
| 15:09.38 | Arathros | i cant trust a software that has the Bsod problem for how many years? |
| 15:09.49 | olafski | lol at "the bsod problem" :P |
| 15:09.56 | Arathros | hehe |
| 15:10.04 | Arathros | well. bad programming and faulty hardware |
| 15:10.08 | olafski | I don't mind if a program works for X time and then either nags me or shuts down.. it's the pretty much the same thing |
| 15:10.08 | amro | bsod? pshh |
| 15:10.11 | amro | rrod > bsod |
| 15:10.11 | olafski | oh dear lord |
| 15:10.17 | Arathros | rrod? |
| 15:10.21 | amro | red ring of death |
| 15:10.25 | amro | on xbox360 |
| 15:10.28 | olafski | "I can't trust software that has faulty hardware?" :P |
| 15:10.28 | Arathros | aaaah |
| 15:10.39 | amro | who are you quoting? |
| 15:10.44 | Arathros | cause he dislikes me |
| 15:10.45 | olafski | I'm paraphrasing arathros :P |
| 15:10.51 | Arathros | and he's quoting me ;P |
| 15:10.52 | amro | you don't put it in quotes |
| 15:10.59 | olafski | I just did |
| 15:11.03 | Cidwel | ...:s |
| 15:11.04 | amro | I'm saying you shouldn't |
| 15:11.07 | Arathros | well bsod is caused by bad programming aswell |
| 15:11.15 | Arathros | i just pointed out also faulty hardware |
| 15:11.19 | Arathros | can do it |
| 15:11.20 | olafski | arathros: perhaps.. but you can't call bad hardware a windows issue |
| 15:11.24 | nevcairiel | only bad driver programming |
| 15:11.29 | Arathros | naa the programming is though |
| 15:11.37 | nevcairiel | user-space software cant cause a bsod anymore |
| 15:11.42 | theorbtwo | Bad driver or system-level programming, anyway. |
| 15:11.54 | theorbtwo | nevcairiel: Or, at least, it shouldn't be able to, which isn't neccessarly the same thing. |
| 15:12.04 | olafski | I wouldn't mind if you could tell me about an OS that doesn't have bugs though =) |
| 15:12.15 | zenzio | user-space software shouldn't be able to unintentionally cause BSODs |
| 15:12.20 | theorbtwo | That is, user-space could pass a bad pointer to kernel space, which then dereferences it without checking. |
| 15:12.22 | zenzio | find an exploit and sure |
| 15:12.23 | Arathros | anyway whats with the motherboard fail.. since i was born I've seen this.. unplug the keyboard and boot up and read what it says... no keyboard present. press f1 to continue |
| 15:12.38 | amro | Windows vs Nix. Ready? Fight! |
| 15:12.44 | Cidwel | ..shit |
| 15:12.53 | zenzio | Arathros: often you can connect a keyboard and it'll work... so pressing F1 makes sense |
| 15:13.01 | nevcairiel | Arathros: plug in a keyboard, and press f1 .. i dont get why people complain about it |
| 15:13.02 | olafski | also this is not remotely related |
| 15:13.06 | theorbtwo | Arathros: If computers have been saying that since you were born, then damn, you are young. |
| 15:13.23 | Arathros | if i could program and had the time to learn the aspects i would be a switcher to nix. |
| 15:13.27 | A-KO | lol amro |
| 15:13.37 | Arathros | I've seen it from back 386 boards. |
| 15:13.44 | olafski | arathros: why would you need to be able to program in order to use an operating system? :S |
| 15:14.09 | nevcairiel | If you come down to it, it doesnt matter what OS you use |
| 15:14.19 | olafski | I'm almost convinced that you can use at least some linux distros without knowing how to program |
| 15:14.19 | zenzio | everyone knows you have to pass a disassembly-test before you're allowed to boot Linux |
| 15:14.26 | theorbtwo | Arathros: And I've seen it since 8086es, but that isn't "since birth". |
| 15:14.29 | olafski | but I still think windows is a lot easier to use |
| 15:14.35 | Arathros | because.. then i could start dev'ing and understand the whole concept. windows imho is for people who likes wysiwyg type |
| 15:14.58 | zenzio | you must not have coded on the Win32 API |
| 15:15.02 | olafski | oh my god :P |
| 15:15.09 | nevcairiel | I use windows so i can focus on real development, and not fiddle with the OS all the time |
| 15:15.17 | nevcairiel | i'm lazy, like every programmer should be |
| 15:15.20 | nevcairiel | ~lazyness |
| 15:15.22 | Ginji | Indeed! |
| 15:15.25 | nevcairiel | ~laziness |
| 15:15.26 | purl | LAZINESS: The quality that makes you go to great effort to reduce overall energy expenditure. It makes you write labor-saving programs that other people will find useful, and document what you wrote so you don't have to answer so many questions about it. Hence, the first great virtue of a programmer. |
| 15:15.26 | Arathros | well i like fiddeling (not to be misunderstood) |
| 15:15.44 | Ginji | document ? |
| 15:16.00 | theorbtwo | Ah, Larry Wall, so great at being quotable. |
| 15:16.23 | olafski | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:16.41 | nevcairiel | I use linux on my laptop for when i want to fiddle around =) |
| 15:17.11 | olafski | ginji: :D |
| 15:17.20 | Arathros | and until i can find a system to replace my windows needs, i'm bound to m$ |
| 15:17.42 | amro | Arathros: "windows imho is for people who likes wysiwyg type" <- not true |
| 15:17.45 | olafski | ok that's it I give up on this one :P |
| 15:17.45 | theorbtwo | Arathros: You certianly won't find it if you don't try it. |
| 15:17.57 | Arathros | my laptop has dualboot and my server is linux. |
| 15:18.07 | Ginji | He is but young and foolish, he does not know ... |
| 15:18.21 | A-KO | I use whatever's good for the job :) Though MS has made some pretty awesome strides in their most recent OS' that I might consider using almost pure MS |
| 15:18.24 | theorbtwo | Ah, cool. That wasn't the impression you gave. |
| 15:18.26 | olafski | ginji: then in a few years he can come back and try again :P |
| 15:18.54 | Ginji | Oeh, I like windows 7, I even have it more or less legal! |
| 15:19.05 | olafski | a-ko: me too.. and since I have very little experience with anything but windows, that's very likely to be windows ;) |
| 15:19.12 | A-KO | server 2008 R2 is pretty damn awesome.... |
| 15:19.19 | Arathros | with the work on the wow addon. and school. i dont have time to fiddle. |
| 15:19.23 | Lopeppeppy | IE is going to drive me insane before Thursday. Guaranteeeeeeeed. |
| 15:19.31 | Ginji | I avoid IE |
| 15:19.37 | Ginji | there, problem fixed |
| 15:19.43 | Lopeppeppy | Me too, in most cases. |
| 15:19.45 | olafski | not really a realistic option in most cases |
| 15:19.49 | olafski | some* |
| 15:19.49 | amro | Ginji: can't if you make web pages |
| 15:19.55 | Ginji | I can try! |
| 15:19.59 | Arathros | lol europe might get a browser selector at os install now |
| 15:19.59 | amro | and you will fail |
| 15:20.01 | amro | :( |
| 15:20.20 | amro | the eu commission is retarded |
| 15:20.30 | nevcairiel | i already installed the browser selector, but i have no idea how to activate it :d |
| 15:20.33 | amro | they should be fining microsoft for making a crappy browser, who cares about the monopoly |
| 15:20.40 | A-KO | IE8's pretty good, it'll be interesting when IE9 hits though. |
| 15:20.44 | A-KO | though admittedly, I use Chrome |
| 15:20.44 | Ginji | But what's funny is ms project web access, the admin interface works in firefox, the actual website requires IE |
| 15:21.12 | amro | A-KO: ie8 isn't bad, but there's till people on ie4-6 |
| 15:21.23 | nevcairiel | 4? i dont believe that |
| 15:21.27 | olafski | I can have some little form of understanding that they have to support other browsers on their operating system ginji |
| 15:21.40 | olafski | but why would they actively work to support other browsers for ms project? |
| 15:21.51 | olafski | don't like it, use something else that does support firefox |
| 15:22.01 | Ginji | I don't like it, upper management does |
| 15:22.02 | olafski | though I say that about windows too :P |
| 15:22.06 | amro | nevcairiel: heh, you'd be surprised |
| 15:22.12 | olafski | really, IE4? |
| 15:22.18 | olafski | can't be a very big market share though right? |
| 15:22.20 | nevcairiel | win2k already came with ie6 |
| 15:22.22 | Ginji | Those people should be banned, for life :P |
| 15:22.32 | nevcairiel | all that before is virtually dead |
| 15:22.32 | *** join/#wowuidev mojosdojo (~mojosdojo@p4FEFD810.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:22.46 | amro | nevcairiel: indeed it did. but you do know there's still people on win98? |
| 15:22.47 | A-KO | amro: and the real question is how many of those people are faking browser headers for site compatibility and might not even know it? :P |
| 15:23.01 | amro | I'm not talking about any statistics, I'm talking about things I've seen |
| 15:23.15 | A-KO | Anyone I see on IE6 I just hand them firefox |
| 15:23.16 | amro | though granted, ie4's share is most likely negligible |
| 15:23.24 | amro | but ie6 is still around and in force |
| 15:23.30 | nevcairiel | even ie6 is going down now |
| 15:23.35 | A-KO | yeah IE6 is disappearing fast |
| 15:23.40 | amro | not fast enough |
| 15:23.45 | nevcairiel | MS is pushing companys to upgrade to 7 |
| 15:23.53 | nevcairiel | from their XP rollouts |
| 15:24.03 | A-KO | I don't blame MS, I blame the web developers. Back in the day, "you need netscape navigator 3.0 or higher to view this webpage" ensured people updated |
| 15:24.06 | A-KO | now it's all about "user experience" |
| 15:24.30 | nevcairiel | google started disabling IE6 support now, that'll get enough pressure from employees that want youtube in their break :P |
| 15:24.32 | A-KO | do a browser detectoin, if you see IE6, send them to the IE8 download site |
| 15:24.47 | cbreak | better |
| 15:24.56 | cbreak | send them to that browser thing they wanted to do in the EU |
| 15:25.11 | A-KO | nah that's too confusing for users, and besides, Firefox shouldn't be on that list. |
| 15:25.16 | A-KO | just tell them to update IE |
| 15:25.21 | theorbtwo | Back in the day, people were more likely to actually have control over their computer, rather then having to lobby IT to get them to upgrade. |
| 15:25.22 | Ginji | Oh, the random ballot screen which wasn't really random? :P |
| 15:25.38 | nevcairiel | they apparently just screwed up the random algorithm |
| 15:25.45 | Ginji | Uhuh |
| 15:25.55 | Ginji | I would never have come up with their solution though |
| 15:25.58 | Ginji | It's pretty crafty |
| 15:26.02 | A-KO | Firefox is a hunk of garbage, Chrome is worthwhile but people hate it because of its ties to google, Safari doesn't work nearly as well on Windows as it does on OSX, and Opera...well.....lol |
| 15:26.24 | amro | http://kotaku.com/5493218/modern-warfare-2-map-pack-also-features-ridiculous-price |
| 15:26.34 | olafski | I like firefox :< |
| 15:26.36 | amro | activision strikes again |
| 15:26.43 | Arathros | people hate it because it saves variables about your searches |
| 15:26.44 | olafski | queue the "yeah but you also like carbonite" :P |
| 15:26.45 | nevcairiel | Safari and opera plainly suck, firefox is fine, it improved alot |
| 15:26.46 | A-KO | amusingly enough Chrome and IE are the only ones built with Windows in mind, by auto lowering their integrity level upon launch. So when it comes to user security, I'm more prone to recommend either IE7/8 or Chrome on Vista/7 |
| 15:27.00 | A-KO | Firefox still likes to chew up lots and lots of ram for no apparent reason if you leave tons of tabs open for a day or two |
| 15:27.05 | A-KO | which I often do, for a week at a time |
| 15:27.13 | olafski | hm |
| 15:27.15 | Ginji | No problems here |
| 15:27.18 | nevcairiel | i never get people that do that, use bookmarks already :d |
| 15:27.20 | cbreak | firefox is the best extensible browsing platform there is |
| 15:27.20 | Ginji | though it's a linux build |
| 15:27.21 | olafski | I installed some addon to "fix" that, dunno if it actually helps |
| 15:27.43 | A-KO | I use bookmarks nevcairiel, but I often have tons of stuff going on at once :P |
| 15:27.53 | amro | cbreak: look where extensibility landed emacs :P |
| 15:27.58 | DWSR | What's the armor cap? 40k? |
| 15:28.10 | cbreak | there are still people who use it |
| 15:28.10 | Ginji | besides, I have 6g of ram, couldn't care less about a gig or so |
| 15:28.31 | Arathros | 40k cap? |
| 15:28.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Odlaw (~ozzy@c-98-245-3-204.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 15:28.43 | nevcairiel | its irritating to have my process display clutterd up with chrome processes though |
| 15:28.51 | Ginji | Hell, I even put the firefox cache on shm |
| 15:28.53 | amro | cbreak: those are the same people who have been using it since before I was born |
| 15:29.02 | cbreak | can't you list them hierarchical nevcairiel? |
| 15:29.22 | olafski | 49,905 is the cap apparently |
| 15:29.23 | nevcairiel | dont think so :d |
| 15:29.25 | olafski | against lvl 83 mobs |
| 15:29.57 | Ginji | Which reminds me! I have to look for a new guild |
| 15:30.51 | Ginji | And Sun should really fix their java updater to work with UAC properly |
| 15:31.11 | Ginji | Yes, I actually use that stuff |
| 15:31.23 | cbreak | I heard there's LFG in the expansion :) |
| 15:31.26 | cbreak | (looking for guild) |
| 15:31.27 | nevcairiel | i dont have a jre installed right now |
| 15:31.39 | nevcairiel | i should do that :d |
| 15:31.39 | olafski | cbreak: yeah.. maybe then I'll finally get a guild |
| 15:31.42 | olafski | but I think a forum would still work better |
| 15:31.53 | Ginji | http://panopticlick.eff.org/ |
| 15:31.55 | Arathros | well ingame board would be awesome |
| 15:31.57 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (~Miranda@85.108.34.95.customer.cdi.no) |
| 15:31.57 | Ginji | How unique are you! |
| 15:32.23 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 15:33.12 | olafski | the advantage of off-game boards is that it can span several servers |
| 15:33.35 | olafski | given the requirements I would have for a potential guild, I doubt there will be many fitting guilds on most servers |
| 15:34.52 | Ginji | I still think wow should have IRC |
| 15:35.03 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 15:35.12 | Lopeppeppy | It does... create your own chat channel, all set. |
| 15:35.18 | Ginji | Not the same! |
| 15:35.32 | Lopeppeppy | What features are you just dying without? |
| 15:35.35 | amro | UT used irc |
| 15:35.46 | olafski | I guess being able to talk to your guild using another client or something |
| 15:35.47 | DWSR | Lopeppeppy: The whole "I can connect to freenode and talk to the Lopemonster" |
| 15:35.59 | olafski | or the other way around yeah :P |
| 15:36.11 | olafski | I don't mind pressing alt-tab once in a while tbh :) |
| 15:36.15 | amro | they explicitly don't want that |
| 15:36.23 | krka | that would be awesome, gold spammers wouldn't even need to buy wow |
| 15:36.25 | Lopeppeppy | Awww. Why would wow add another client when they already have two methods in game to talk to your guildies? |
| 15:36.25 | krka | great idea |
| 15:36.26 | olafski | already have own chat channels and whisper to talk to people outside my one-man-guild anyway |
| 15:36.34 | olafski | krka: :D |
| 15:36.51 | olafski | krka: you could still have the server require authentication |
| 15:37.13 | Ginji | Oh right, plain text authenentication, that'll go well |
| 15:37.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~cide@c213-100-51-33.swipnet.se) |
| 15:37.14 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 15:37.21 | theorbtwo | A chat client vaugely similar to the auction house client could be nice. |
| 15:37.25 | Ginji | s/enen/en/ |
| 15:37.26 | theorbtwo | Ginji: IRC over SSL. |
| 15:38.09 | Ginji | And then there's the guy who mistells his login info :P |
| 15:38.16 | olafski | pff |
| 15:38.21 | olafski | I doubt any of this is why blizzard doesn't want it :P |
| 15:38.32 | Cidwel | someone have some info to start designing using only lua? |
| 15:38.39 | airtonix | warden wouldnt be running |
| 15:38.46 | olafski | that's a better one airtonix =) |
| 15:38.54 | olafski | and also "why would they when they already have something that works" |
| 15:39.01 | airtonix | that too |
| 15:39.05 | amro | another attack vector for keyloggers |
| 15:39.10 | airtonix | look at the problems ccp has with their in game browser |
| 15:39.22 | amro | it has problems now? |
| 15:39.32 | airtonix | i just made that one up |
| 15:39.38 | Ginji | lol |
| 15:40.20 | olafski | what's ccp again? :$ |
| 15:40.39 | airtonix | company that created and manages eve-online |
| 15:40.44 | Ginji | Bah! Annoying software cursor! |
| 15:41.41 | olafski | ah |
| 15:42.29 | Ginji | I'd play wow much more on linux if I could just get a hardware cursor |
| 15:42.43 | nevcairiel | eh the sw cursor is not that bad |
| 15:42.49 | nevcairiel | you get used to it |
| 15:42.59 | nevcairiel | i'm using opengl on windows now because it runs so much smoother |
| 15:43.02 | nevcairiel | short of the cursor |
| 15:43.28 | Ginji | I've ran wow under wine for a couple of years, but recently started playing under windows |
| 15:43.29 | Cidwel | the only problem with opengl is the damn hardware cursor and blizzard is not going to support that never |
| 15:43.35 | cbreak | can't you use hardware cursor with OpenGL? |
| 15:43.41 | cbreak | it claims to support it over here |
| 15:43.43 | Ginji | Only on OSX |
| 15:43.44 | nevcairiel | sure you can |
| 15:43.47 | Cidwel | only in osx |
| 15:43.49 | nevcairiel | anywhere |
| 15:43.50 | Cidwel | yep |
| 15:43.53 | nevcairiel | WoW just doent use it |
| 15:44.13 | nevcairiel | Its not OpenGLs limitation |
| 15:44.19 | Ginji | The difference in fps between windows and wine is huge |
| 15:45.35 | Kraps | this is fail http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=30470 |
| 15:45.37 | airtonix | most undesirable experience with firefox |
| 15:45.50 | Ginji | Things used to be pretty equal between the two, but since I upgraded my comp windows is so much smoother |
| 15:47.36 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 15:48.07 | Arathros | whats fail about it? |
| 15:48.18 | Fisker | slaps nevcairiel around a bit with a large trout |
| 15:48.18 | Ginji | They should just add virtual desktops to windows so I can get it over with |
| 15:48.42 | airtonix | they already have |
| 15:48.54 | olafski | every time I install windows, multiple desktops is the first thing I disable |
| 15:48.54 | Ginji | proper virtual desktops? |
| 15:48.57 | olafski | never saw the point |
| 15:49.15 | airtonix | apparently its how he guest session flips over |
| 15:49.17 | Ginji | none of that emulated shiz I've been seeing |
| 15:49.25 | airtonix | DWm does it apparently |
| 15:49.52 | Kraps | Arathros: it takes you from dalaran to the Skybreaker, except that it doesnt |
| 15:50.07 | airtonix | but there isn't a gui to control it. so far its only available via some dll librarys for your code |
| 15:50.25 | olafski | kraps: doesn't it? |
| 15:50.26 | amro | it's also bad and slow |
| 15:50.32 | Kraps | circled the Skybreaker about 5 times then got ported back to dalaran |
| 15:50.40 | airtonix | very xsplash lol we forgot to provide gui. sucks to be you. |
| 15:50.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Zyonin (~zyonin@93-38-87-192.ip69.fastwebnet.it) |
| 15:50.45 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Zyonin] by ChanServ |
| 15:51.58 | olafski | kraps: hm, it worked for me :) |
| 15:52.06 | Ginji | So, there is support for it just no way to access it |
| 15:52.20 | Ginji | Then it's useless! |
| 15:53.12 | Arathros | so just to clarify |
| 15:53.27 | Arathros | multiline commenting = --[[ -> ]] or ]]-- |
| 15:53.56 | olafski | I assume both will work |
| 15:54.12 | olafski | if it's the former, the latter will also work because it will mark the rest of that line a comment :P |
| 15:54.21 | olafski | hm wait :P |
| 15:54.32 | olafski | if it's the latter then the former wouldn't work.. but the real answer is of course: TIAS |
| 15:55.01 | krka | --[[ ]] |
| 15:55.06 | airtonix | Ginji, correct, unless you're willing to create code for it.. i dont even think the user session has it enabled but i could be wrong |
| 15:55.11 | Arathros | thanks.. just for the highlighter |
| 15:55.53 | Ginji | bummer |
| 15:55.58 | airtonix | Ginji, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop_Window_Manager |
| 15:56.11 | olafski | krka: actually, from google I get the idea that it's --[[ --]] |
| 15:56.16 | Ginji | Uhuh, I found that article |
| 15:56.19 | olafski | trying it is probably the easiest anyway |
| 15:56.19 | airtonix | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop_Window_Manager#cite_note-3 |
| 15:56.20 | cbreak | --[==[ ]==] :) |
| 15:56.32 | airtonix | i mean cite note 5 |
| 15:56.48 | cbreak | the most basic form is what krka said |
| 15:57.01 | cbreak | but it supports the same levels as long strings |
| 15:57.15 | airtonix | http://blogs.msdn.com/cjacks/archive/2006/11/09/a-desktop-of-your-own.aspx |
| 15:57.19 | Kalroth | --[[ . Y . ]] |
| 15:58.07 | Arathros | Kalroth lol |
| 15:58.44 | airtonix | Hilda ? |
| 15:59.17 | krka | olafski: wrong |
| 15:59.33 | olafski | I think cbreak already mentioned that, krka :P |
| 15:59.51 | airtonix | Ginji, and it looks like even if you do get extra desktops up... you wont be able to drag apps between them |
| 16:00.23 | amro | http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/03/marketing-games-the-art-of-the-pole-dance.ars |
| 16:00.32 | Ginji | Uhuh, and lack of rendering fancyness |
| 16:01.06 | Ginji | So, give windows a couple more iterations and then we'll have it! |
| 16:02.53 | *** join/#wowuidev cncfanatics (~cncfanati@WoWUIDev/cncfanatics) |
| 16:20.38 | frontendloader | I always do --[[ and ]]-- |
| 16:21.36 | foxlit | ]]--is kind of meh. |
| 16:21.42 | foxlit | Since you comment out the rest of that line. |
| 16:24.41 | amro | ]] is kind of meh. |
| 16:24.50 | amro | Since you can't sleep at night thinking about the lack of symmetry |
| 16:25.48 | Fisker | slaps foxlit around a bit with a large trout |
| 16:32.03 | *** topic/#wowuidev by Cairenn -> http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ | 3.3.x ToC: 30300 | #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting | Beware the Ides of March! |
| 16:32.58 | nevcairiel | olafski: its --[[ .. ]], but people usually use --[[ --]] so you can just remove the first tag (or comment itself), to uncomment the block |
| 16:33.11 | airtonix | check out the obfuscation this site uses on its articles to prevent you from copy pasting the text : http://www.misaustralia.com/viewer.aspx?EDP://1240968392282§ion=blogs |
| 16:33.36 | Shadowed | haha |
| 16:34.22 | airtonix | quote : "The insane scientists at MISAustralia appear to have built a content management system that automatically shuffles each paragraph into two piles, letter by letter." |
| 16:34.35 | airtonix | http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/05/01/drm-cutting-off-your-prose-to-spite-your-face/ |
| 16:35.01 | nevcairiel | search engine blocker ftw? |
| 16:35.08 | airtonix | lulz |
| 16:35.46 | airtonix | http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/30321 |
| 16:36.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Stew_a (~Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 16:37.05 | nevcairiel | lol |
| 16:38.01 | nevcairiel | of course there is a greasemonkey to fix it already |
| 16:40.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Ycarene (jporterf@24-116-56-41.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 16:40.19 | airtonix | think it would of been simpler to turn the article into an image |
| 16:40.45 | airtonix | since they obviously hate blind people |
| 16:42.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (kalroth@3e6baba5.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 16:42.44 | A-KO | http://xkcd.com/ lol |
| 16:43.35 | Cairenn | ^^ TRUE |
| 16:44.09 | Lopeppeppy | So very very. |
| 16:47.51 | A-KO | woot, get my asthma medication this week, get started on that, and get exercising. |
| 16:48.42 | Lopeppeppy | Be on it a few days first, depending on what it is, that stuff can make you very loopy! |
| 16:49.34 | Lunessa | If I ever meet a woman is is sexually aroused by a man doing domestic chores to the point she'd prefer that to actual sex, I will encase her in lucite as a warning to other men. |
| 16:50.09 | Lopeppeppy | There may be males who prefer doing chores to having sex. They would make a good team. |
| 16:50.14 | Lopeppeppy | Jack Sprat and his wife, you know. |
| 16:51.06 | Lunessa | As long as they aren't breeding and they aren't trying to compete in the same dating pool. |
| 16:52.48 | Lopeppeppy | Sounds fair. |
| 16:57.54 | Lopeppeppy | I wonder if I should dump in some more chlorine. |
| 16:58.15 | Lunessa | into the gene pool? yes please. |
| 16:59.06 | A-KO | ugh, wish I didn't do it to an extent, but I adopted my bitch, sociopathic ex gf's cat |
| 16:59.16 | A-KO | at least until she finds herself in a more permanent, stable situation |
| 16:59.21 | A-KO | sweet cat though |
| 16:59.29 | *** join/#wowuidev PProvost (~peter@c-71-229-131-32.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
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| 16:59.36 | A-KO | couldn't see her go get put down, that would have sucked--my ex might be a sociopathic whore, but I'm not that cruel.... |
| 16:59.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 16:59.58 | Lopeppeppy | Should have made her give you the cat for good, so you don't have to deal with her anymore. |
| 17:00.06 | *** join/#wowuidev jacobeiting (~jacobeiti@rabbit5.mps.ohio-state.edu) |
| 17:00.10 | A-KO | I kind of get the feeling that's the case at this point though |
| 17:00.24 | A-KO | originally she talked it up as temporary but the day she gave it to me she kind of shrugged that off |
| 17:00.30 | A-KO | that it was up in the air |
| 17:04.07 | Lopeppeppy | Thankfully, Moose was always mine, I never had to argue over keeping her with me in The Grand Breakup. I adore my kitties. |
| 17:04.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Kody- (kody@wsip-24-120-243-27.lv.lv.cox.net) |
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| 17:10.14 | nevcairiel | Adys: do you happen to know if webkit/chrome supports the :nth-child pseudo selector? |
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| 17:16.39 | Kraps | amro: whoa |
| 17:17.22 | amro | sup? |
| 17:17.27 | A-KO | http://chartsbin.com/view/d12 < lol |
| 17:18.08 | Kraps | that ars article |
| 17:20.28 | Kraps | A-KO: wtb the US being a shade of blue |
| 17:21.53 | nevcairiel | haha awesome how the US is really the last place left too stubborn to change (last noteworthy place, anyway) |
| 17:22.14 | A-KO | I get laughed at because I use celsius here :/ |
| 17:22.23 | A-KO | they're like "Why does your phone say it's only 11 degrees outside?" |
| 17:22.44 | nevcairiel | laugh at them for not using the easy system |
| 17:22.48 | theorbtwo | Pretty much everybody, and everywhere, is resistant to change. |
| 17:23.00 | nevcairiel | 0 = ice, 100 = boiling, doesnt get much easier! |
| 17:23.00 | A-KO | it's not just resistance to change, it's downright they put it down |
| 17:23.24 | A-KO | I can use both celsius and fahrenheit interchangeably at this point, and I don't really convert between the two |
| 17:23.29 | A-KO | but I can use 'em both |
| 17:23.46 | theorbtwo | In Europe, pre-metric, you had a bunch of seperate but confusingly similar systems. |
| 17:24.05 | theorbtwo | You also had the world wars, an impetius to use a common system in order to work with those other people. |
| 17:24.11 | nevcairiel | yeah but its not like any living person still remembers pre-metric |
| 17:24.17 | Kraps | also 10=100=100=1000 etc, why cant we have that? |
| 17:24.46 | theorbtwo | In the US, that was much less true. You have a somewhat less confusing system then the imperial system, and you have a huge block that uses it. |
| 17:25.07 | theorbtwo | The UK still uses miles, and measures people in pounds and stone. |
| 17:25.24 | theorbtwo | ...because on neither of those is compatability with the neghibours all that important. |
| 17:25.43 | nevcairiel | its typical US though, don't adapt to the world, expect them to adapt to you |
| 17:26.15 | theorbtwo | Most people would do that if they had the economic base for it to actually happen. |
| 17:27.30 | nevcairiel | they are not the absolute world power anymore, though. maybe in military, but they fail to use that properly =P |
| 17:28.12 | A-KO | nevcairiel: gonna take a few decades before most of the American people realize that |
| 17:28.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (~dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 17:28.45 | A-KO | the whole world is moving on without us :P |
| 17:28.50 | theorbtwo | It's going to take even longer before mfgrs stop bothering to translate everything. |
| 17:29.00 | A-KO | haha |
| 17:29.34 | Kraps | normal hos isnt an 80 instance? |
| 17:29.36 | theorbtwo | In any case, the US isn't doing as poorly as many americans think, I think... because they don't have the perspective to see that everywhere is economically fucked. |
| 17:29.42 | nevcairiel | Kraps: nop |
| 17:30.12 | Kraps | i'm level 79 |
| 17:30.19 | Kraps | wakawaka |
| 17:30.22 | nevcairiel | its 77 or so |
| 17:30.25 | Shadowed | ~lart Lopeppeppy |
| 17:30.25 | purl | teaches Lopeppeppy the basics, including how to RTM |
| 17:30.40 | Lopeppeppy | Oh, halp. I'm being eaten by a grue. |
| 17:31.01 | nevcairiel | theorbtwo: i didnt see the big economic fallout yet that people predicted, but maybe it'll come this year .. some short-term bandaids kept us alive |
| 17:31.19 | nevcairiel | I don't actually pay much attention to economics in the US :P |
| 17:31.35 | theorbtwo | I don't pay horribly much attention to it either. |
| 17:31.38 | nevcairiel | I only see the dollar bopping up and down |
| 17:31.51 | theorbtwo | ...but the UK is fucked. The euro zone is fucked. |
| 17:32.05 | nevcairiel | I live in the euro zone, and so far we're fine |
| 17:32.09 | theorbtwo | Everywhere's fucked, not just the US, which means, comparatively, the US isn't as fucked as it might be. |
| 17:32.46 | Lopeppeppy | Sounds like a personal problem to me. *innocent* |
| 17:33.16 | theorbtwo | grins. |
| 17:33.54 | theorbtwo | http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/768c3e42-304d-11df-bc4a-00144feabdc0.html |
| 17:34.01 | nevcairiel | sure, the economy didnt really grow last year, but it didnt shrink either, and things keep improving this year .. just waiting to see what happens when the government bandaids expire later this year, but maybe it'll have caught itself |
| 17:34.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Roofel (~chatzilla@c845245C1.dhcp.bluecom.no) |
| 17:35.43 | Kraps | dislikes RL in his IRC |
| 17:35.53 | A-KO | I think the US will be similar to what it is now but for the next few decades, short of some amazing new thing to come out. They've tried to push the whole "green" thing, but that hasn't picked up much steam. |
| 17:36.12 | nevcairiel | eh, greece, i don't really count that into the core EU block =P |
| 17:36.15 | A-KO | but the US does need some massive economic overhauls |
| 17:36.28 | A-KO | socioeconomic overhauls really |
| 17:36.40 | nevcairiel | it also needs laws to prevent crashing the world economics again |
| 17:37.11 | A-KO | a bachelor's degree costs so much more than it should these days |
| 17:37.15 | A-KO | in comparison to the rest of the world |
| 17:37.46 | nevcairiel | i could get one for free, basically, maybe some administrative fees that wouldnt top 1k USD |
| 17:38.19 | nevcairiel | (but i went to a private university, go figure! :D) |
| 17:38.28 | Fisker | do you like shemail nevcairiel ? |
| 17:38.35 | A-KO | UMBC (public university) here is around $10K/year |
| 17:38.41 | A-KO | that's in-state tuition |
| 17:39.00 | A-KO | so if I were to go down the street to them, it would run me about $40K for a bachelor's |
| 17:39.00 | Lunessa | Meh, people who are saying the US needs Socioeconomic changes are generally from countries that are much bigger nanny-states with much much smaller populations. |
| 17:39.09 | nevcairiel | public universitys are basically free, some of our states have fees that are around ~500 per semester |
| 17:39.09 | nevcairiel | but not everywhere |
| 17:39.11 | A-KO | Lunessa: I've lived here all my life :P |
| 17:39.25 | Lunessa | A-KO: So you're just a socialist. :P |
| 17:39.42 | theorbtwo | I've lived in the US, Germany, and the UK. I've rather warmed up to socialisim. |
| 17:39.48 | nevcairiel | Lunessa: how does the population really come into there? |
| 17:39.58 | A-KO | Lunessa: When someone can go to another country and get a 4 year bachelor's degree for a few thousand dollars, then come to the US and get a job, pay it off in a few month's time--versus the fact it takes decades to pay off the same education here, it's a problem, a real problem, and one that is going to crush us in both education and economy. |
| 17:40.07 | nevcairiel | people pay taxes, how you use those taxes is important |
| 17:40.11 | Lunessa | nevcairiel: You can do many things on a smaller scale than you can on a large scale, socially. |
| 17:40.16 | A-KO | no, you can't. |
| 17:40.33 | A-KO | besides, to say the US can't change because it's so large is a bit of a misrepresentation. We have 50 states |
| 17:40.39 | A-KO | and most stuff is done at the state level |
| 17:40.56 | Lunessa | A-KO: Don't complain to me about education costs pal. I paid my own way through 5 years of university entirely from my own pocket. |
| 17:41.10 | Lunessa | A-KO: I didn't say that. |
| 17:41.22 | A-KO | entirely from pocket? I doubt that :P |
| 17:41.28 | nevcairiel | thats one of the fails of the US, you are one big country, but soon we will have more unifiied laws in the EU then you have =P |
| 17:41.29 | A-KO | the costs are prohibitively expensive |
| 17:41.38 | A-KO | you had help from someone/somewhere. |
| 17:41.42 | Lunessa | A-KO: I worked 4 jobs, and never slept. And I went to University in the 80s. |
| 17:41.46 | A-KO | ah |
| 17:41.47 | A-KO | in the 80s |
| 17:41.54 | A-KO | you do know the cost of going has gone significantly up since then, right? |
| 17:41.59 | A-KO | even in the past 10 years, university costs have risen |
| 17:42.07 | nevcairiel | Having to work 4 jobs just to get through university sounds right to you? |
| 17:42.13 | A-KO | apparently nevcairiel |
| 17:42.23 | theorbtwo | nevcairiel: I don't think that's really true, and often EU-wide laws (and, worse, regulations) are bad ones. |
| 17:42.41 | Lunessa | But I paid all that shit out of my own pocket. And compared to my cost of living in Los Angeles and the cost of my private education vs people who go on someone else's dime, the pain was more than shifted to my side. |
| 17:42.49 | nevcairiel | They are mostly too generic, but not necessarily bad |
| 17:43.01 | theorbtwo | See, for example, data retention (which was recently found to be in violation of the German constitution.) |
| 17:43.08 | A-KO | Lunessa: had someone to help? Had a SO around to help cover the bills? |
| 17:43.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Movix (~Movix@mail.schiffmann.fr) |
| 17:43.34 | theorbtwo | Lunessa: And you don't think that it should be getting easier to pay for university, not harder? |
| 17:43.39 | A-KO | what would you say that some person in almost every other part of the world pays a fraction of your cost? Companies here aren't limited to just your pool of education to find workers, they can and do source the world. |
| 17:44.11 | A-KO | Companies set up shop in foreign countries, hire them. They also import workers, 100% legally, sanctioned, and lobbied-for. |
| 17:44.19 | Lunessa | A-KO: No. My parents were poor. I lived alone. I ate ramen and cheap rice and such. I worked 4 jobs, I made decent money, but secondary schooling isn't a right, it's a privilege. I earned it myself. |
| 17:44.20 | cbreak | I paid several thousands of money a year for university |
| 17:44.33 | nevcairiel | We believe in open education, not just for people that are either willing to work 4 jobs, or are rich enough by default. In the first case people usually take way longer then intended anyway, because their focus is divided |
| 17:44.55 | nevcairiel | And no, education is a right around here, and its good that way. |
| 17:45.02 | A-KO | Lunessa: You grew up in an age where it wasn't required. Nowadays, a 4 year degree is equivalent to a HS diploma was back then. |
| 17:45.07 | A-KO | It's not a privilege anymore, it's a requirement to compete. |
| 17:45.13 | cbreak | if only rich people can afford education, only rich people will get it. |
| 17:45.28 | A-KO | a bachelor's degree is practically a requirement to compete with the rest of the world. |
| 17:45.30 | Lunessa | nevcairiel: Public education through "high school" (12th grade) is a public thing here. The beyond that, it's up to YOU. |
| 17:45.38 | nevcairiel | Which is wrong |
| 17:45.43 | cbreak | instead, why not make it only competent people can get it? |
| 17:45.43 | A-KO | yes, it is wrong. |
| 17:45.54 | Lunessa | nevcairiel: I disagree. |
| 17:46.14 | cbreak | I had to pass many tests to get through the 12 years of school until I could go to university |
| 17:46.37 | A-KO | Lunessa: So what do you do when some Indian dude pays $2,000 to go get a 4 year degree and gets hired to work within the US? How do you compete with that, how can you compete with that? Go $40,000-$70,000 in debt to compete with someone who can pay their entire degree tuition off in 2 months? |
| 17:46.48 | Lunessa | I should also say that public education is largely compulsory. |
| 17:47.42 | A-KO | Lunessa: The only people that could possibly support that system are either A) benefitting from the status quo, or B) incredibly fucking stupid. |
| 17:47.44 | Lunessa | A-KO: Your assumptions are skewed. I work for a university, and a great many of our students are from outside the US and they pay tuition here. |
| 17:47.49 | A-KO | And since you say you were poor |
| 17:47.52 | nevcairiel | All education is public here, from elementary to university. Heck, the state even offers a loan without interest for students to cover living costs. And hell, you only have to pay 50% back when you graduate in the proper time. |
| 17:47.52 | A-KO | I'm going ot assume B |
| 17:47.56 | A-KO | oh, nm....A :P |
| 17:48.00 | Shadowed | Depends how competent your parents are Lunessa, you can get out of it thought |
| 17:48.12 | Shirik | Cide |
| 17:48.20 | Shirik | evacuate the dance floor |
| 17:48.24 | Shirik | I'm infected by the sound |
| 17:48.27 | Shadowed | Alas I must run |
| 17:48.30 | A-KO | nevcairiel: I've been looking at education in the Netherlands, friend of mine lives there :P Seems like good stuff compared to here. |
| 17:48.35 | Cide | Shirik: what? :P |
| 17:48.47 | A-KO | student reimbursement is worthwhile |
| 17:48.47 | Shirik | we need to play some games imo |
| 17:48.53 | nevcairiel | I dunno about NL, but i bet its similar to what we have |
| 17:48.54 | A-KO | around here it's like "oh you get a 5% discount if you're a student" |
| 17:48.57 | theorbtwo | Foreign students in US universities often have their tuition paid by a combination of the US and foreign government. |
| 17:49.18 | A-KO | yay, a whole 50 cents off a $10 cost. |
| 17:49.22 | A-KO | that's really going to help |
| 17:49.28 | cbreak | it's the job of the government to pay for education |
| 17:49.35 | cbreak | that's what we pay taxes for... |
| 17:49.41 | nevcairiel | A-KO: we have those too, but its just a small bonus :) |
| 17:50.33 | nevcairiel | I worked during my time at university, but i wouldn't have had to with some small cutbacks |
| 17:50.43 | Lunessa | cbreak: Really? What about roads, national defense, etc. ? Frankly, I could do with a lot less government paying for everything, and a lot more people carrying their weight. |
| 17:50.43 | Cide | Shirik: sure |
| 17:50.46 | A-KO | See, all of this, it's bad for the US. You could easily say that the US should just stop funding foreign students, foreign workers, and completely isolate ourselves and close our doors. But doing that would be suicide for the country. |
| 17:51.51 | Shirik | also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmA3N9ra6l8&feature=related |
| 17:51.51 | Cide | but first I must fix apache |
| 17:51.52 | A-KO | Lunessa: I don't consider CEOs making $2M/year as carrying their weight :P |
| 17:51.52 | cbreak | national defense? not that important. Roads? Sure, public transport is also important |
| 17:51.52 | A-KO | public transportation is going to be extremely important moving forward |
| 17:51.52 | cbreak | and there are plenty of taxes exclusively for road maintenance |
| 17:51.52 | A-KO | The US of which generally has none |
| 17:51.52 | nevcairiel | We manage to pay public healthcare, education, and much more, and we still have roads to walk on, too! |
| 17:51.56 | Cide | ok |
| 17:51.56 | A-KO | Some cities here have decent public transport, NYC, for example. Philly, a few....but most of the rest of the US is without anything worthwhile. |
| 17:52.13 | cbreak | according to my information |
| 17:52.15 | Lunessa | A-KO: Right, you want Uncle Sam to pay for everything, and to force everyone to make 'fair' wages (including preventing anyone from making lots of money) and you want everything to be free. Socialism. Ask the Soviets how that worked? |
| 17:52.18 | cbreak | most of the US is uninhabited |
| 17:52.19 | Cide | so I have apache running two different virtual hosts on two different ports |
| 17:52.23 | Shirik | why |
| 17:52.27 | Cide | why does only one of the ports work externally? |
| 17:52.31 | Shirik | firewall |
| 17:52.33 | Cide | no |
| 17:52.34 | Shirik | but WHY |
| 17:52.42 | Cide | why not? |
| 17:52.44 | Cide | two different projects |
| 17:52.52 | cbreak | port based virtual hosts can use different SSL certs |
| 17:52.53 | Shirik | same host name? |
| 17:52.55 | cbreak | I think |
| 17:52.59 | A-KO | Lunessa: You're going on extremes here, also not counting for the fact that the people who instituted those systems there also abused it for self gain. A more accurate representation of what "modern socialism" is would be to look at quite a few nations in the EU as well as Canada, all of which are doing quite well. |
| 17:53.01 | amro | Lunessa: soviets were communists |
| 17:53.04 | Kraps | "As the saying goes, "DPS is a Science, Healing is an Art"" |
| 17:53.08 | Kraps | orly? |
| 17:53.11 | Cide | same host name? |
| 17:53.13 | amro | also what A-KO said |
| 17:53.19 | Shirik | do they have different host names or the same host name? |
| 17:53.27 | Cide | how do I know? |
| 17:53.27 | Kraps | whats tanking then? |
| 17:53.31 | Shirik | ._. |
| 17:53.32 | cbreak | I don't see a problem with asking taxes to be spent on useful stuff |
| 17:53.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Thaoky (Thaoky@91.181.175.16) |
| 17:53.35 | Cide | I'm bad at this stuff |
| 17:53.36 | Shirik | because you're setting up apache? |
| 17:53.36 | Lunessa | amro: true, I mis-stated. |
| 17:53.40 | A-KO | cbreak: neither do I |
| 17:53.42 | Shirik | ok |
| 17:53.44 | cbreak | if you'd rather have them be spent on dumb "earmarks" or what ever... |
| 17:53.52 | Shirik | is the URL, excluding the port number, the same for both sites? |
| 17:53.56 | cbreak | education is useful. transportation is useful. |
| 17:53.57 | Cide | yes (my ip) |
| 17:53.59 | Lunessa | A-KO: Come back to me in 20 years when you've done more than be a student and tell me if you still feel the same way. |
| 17:53.59 | Shirik | ok |
| 17:54.02 | Cide | ok |
| 17:54.03 | Cide | now it works |
| 17:54.03 | Shirik | so that's why you're using two different ports |
| 17:54.04 | Cide | wtf |
| 17:54.11 | Shirik | then they're not virtual hosts :) |
| 17:54.11 | Cide | oh no |
| 17:54.13 | Cide | it doesn't |
| 17:54.30 | Shirik | a virtual host is like shiibot.com and heresiarchguild.com, both of which resolve to the same IP and both use port 80, but are two distinct sites |
| 17:54.32 | A-KO | cbreak: There's a lot of push back here though. For example, Baltimore needs massive public transportation overhauls. Unfortunately due to our water, can't really do the whole underground thing as much. So it's all above ground. Due to the massive social and economic differences between areas of the city, there's major pushback for any decent overhaul from people with enough money to not care. |
| 17:54.39 | Cide | I have it set up as <VirtualHost:80> ... </VirtualHost> <VirtualHost:83> ... </VirtualHost> |
| 17:54.48 | Shirik | I... |
| 17:54.50 | Cide | er |
| 17:54.51 | Shirik | have never seen that done before |
| 17:54.54 | Cide | VirtualHost *:80 |
| 17:54.58 | Cide | works fine locally |
| 17:55.15 | Shirik | I bet you're not binding correctly |
| 17:55.16 | Shirik | sec |
| 17:55.17 | Cide | I did it this way because our own server does that (but it does have different hostnames) |
| 17:55.17 | nevcairiel | I suppose you have the Listen directives too? :) |
| 17:55.21 | Cide | yeah |
| 17:55.23 | A-KO | Lunessa: You don't know half of what I've done for my life, but I do believe that way, and will always feel that way. I've felt that way since I was 13, I feel that way now at 26, and I'll feel that way at 40-50 also :P |
| 17:55.25 | Teomyr | Cide, did you add a "Listen 83" directive? |
| 17:55.28 | Cide | Listen 80, Listen 83 |
| 17:55.30 | Cide | yep |
| 17:55.33 | Teomyr | hm |
| 17:55.35 | Cide | and like I said |
| 17:55.39 | Cide | http://localhost:83 works |
| 17:55.44 | Cide | http://213.100.51.33:83/ doesn't |
| 17:55.52 | Cide | http://213.100.51.33/ works (and maps to localhost:80) |
| 17:56.03 | cbreak | A-KO: In my country it works sort of. Trains everywhere, busses in the cities |
| 17:56.10 | cbreak | I don't think there are any subways of note |
| 17:56.16 | Lunessa | A-KO: So, in your belief - those who earn more should pay the expenses of those who earn less, or earn nothing? I'm just taking your comments to their logical conclusion. |
| 17:56.16 | Shirik | I think Listen 83 is wrong |
| 17:56.18 | cbreak | but there are trams in some cities |
| 17:56.26 | A-KO | cbreak: Baltimore actually introduced a free busline that moves around downtown, it's quite nice--though I'm not sure how sustainable it is. Free is never truly free...... |
| 17:56.33 | Shirik | try Listen 213.100.51.33:83 |
| 17:56.39 | Shirik | it may be binding to lo |
| 17:56.41 | cbreak | it's not free here |
| 17:56.47 | nevcairiel | we have subways in like 4 big citys, but the train network is pretty good, and alot of citys have trams as well |
| 17:56.48 | cbreak | just subventioned |
| 17:57.03 | Lunessa | As for public transit, it would be nice to have a system that worked, and didn't cost everyone an arm and a leg and managed to work in all areas. |
| 17:57.26 | cbreak | it's much cheaper for the government to have public transport than to accomodate for individual transport for everyone |
| 17:57.46 | A-KO | Lunessa: No, I'm saying that those who earn proportionally more, or inadvertently more than they deserve should earn far less, the money of which should be distributed to those that actually do anything. I can't really quantify specifics here. But I also feel that we have a need for a common good. You don't like murderers, I don't like murderers. You allocate a portion of your funds to keep murderers of the streets and locked up somewhere. |
| 17:57.51 | nevcairiel | yeah without public transport we would need 8-laned highways or something |
| 17:57.54 | nevcairiel | its already full on there |
| 17:58.07 | Cide | Shirik: using that I got an error saying port 83 was being used |
| 17:58.10 | Lunessa | But tunnels don't dig themselves, track won't lay itself, and when you knock down houses/business to get the room for them, money has to come from somewhere. |
| 17:58.15 | Cide | I switched to 8000 and now it works |
| 17:58.18 | Shirik | Cide: Then there's your problem |
| 17:58.30 | nevcairiel | Lunessa: thats what we pay taxes for? |
| 17:58.36 | Cide | still strange how it worked locally on 83 |
| 17:58.43 | Shirik | because it was able to bind to 127.0.0.1:83 |
| 17:58.48 | cbreak | these days, as all days, earning and deserving are unrelated |
| 17:58.54 | Cide | ah, yeah |
| 17:59.01 | cbreak | some people earn a lot without work. some people work all day without earning much. |
| 17:59.04 | Lunessa | A-KO: I'm not opposed to taxes for things of the common need or public trust. I just don't think EVERYTHING needs to be in the public trust. |
| 17:59.06 | Cide | ok I'm ready then Shirik |
| 17:59.07 | A-KO | Get rid of middle management positions in nearly every industry, only promote to the concept of project leaders. Would significantly cut down on a whole lot of wasted spending. |
| 17:59.08 | nevcairiel | just out of interest, whats the avg % of taxes you pay on your income? |
| 17:59.19 | Cide | 30%! |
| 17:59.20 | A-KO | nevcairiel: I know mine's around the 30% mark |
| 17:59.22 | A-KO | give or take |
| 17:59.28 | nevcairiel | mine is too |
| 17:59.28 | A-KO | not counting sales tax |
| 17:59.33 | nevcairiel | and we manage to pay for all that |
| 17:59.37 | Adys | nevcairiel: i believe it does, but the implementation is not complete |
| 17:59.41 | Lunessa | nevcairiel: I pay roughly 38% of my income in various taxes. |
| 17:59.50 | cbreak | we have property and income taxes |
| 17:59.52 | nevcairiel | so oyu even pay more taxes then we do in average |
| 18:00.00 | cbreak | + sales tax, + lots of special taxes |
| 18:00.00 | A-KO | nevcairiel: and get less in return :P |
| 18:00.21 | Lunessa | Actually, we get quite a lot. You just aren't getting what you want. :P |
| 18:00.23 | nevcairiel | I just meant taxes you directly pay of your income |
| 18:00.26 | nevcairiel | net vs gross |
| 18:00.26 | Pneumatus | UK income tax is something like 20% < £37k, 40% < £150k |
| 18:00.26 | A-KO | nevcairiel: the reason being is that there are people out there that just feel entitled to big everything. big cars, drivers, big houses, multi-million dollar paychecks, etc. |
| 18:00.34 | cbreak | WAR? |
| 18:00.40 | cbreak | DESTRUCTION OF FOREIGN NATIONS? |
| 18:01.07 | Pneumatus | we also lose another 10% or so to national insurance as well |
| 18:01.09 | cbreak | golden parachutes for bankers? |
| 18:01.14 | A-KO | http://www.aflcio.org/corporatewatch/paywatch/ceou/top100.cfm |
| 18:01.20 | cbreak | money well spent in some eyes I guess |
| 18:01.25 | cbreak | bailouts ftw. |
| 18:01.30 | A-KO | cbreak: they *earned* it, remember that ;) |
| 18:01.31 | nevcairiel | i pay about 1/3 of my income for taxes and health/social insurance |
| 18:01.36 | Lunessa | cbreak: Yeah, that right there? That's something I felt should NEVER have come from public money. |
| 18:02.04 | Ginji | Your country is bankrupt anyway, so who cares! |
| 18:02.13 | A-KO | Lunessa: technically, all money is public money ;) |
| 18:02.17 | cbreak | Iceland is bankrupt. |
| 18:02.27 | Shirik | Cide |
| 18:02.28 | nevcairiel | its a freaking iceberg |
| 18:02.28 | Shirik | wru |
| 18:02.28 | A-KO | you didn't earn any money, you earned a portion of someone else's money. |
| 18:02.33 | cbreak | greece maybe |
| 18:02.42 | nevcairiel | depends if we let it die |
| 18:03.00 | Lunessa | A-KO: Yeah, you don't understand money as a medium for exchange. To you it's some kind of fucking magic. |
| 18:03.29 | nevcairiel | Anyway, i pay less taxes, and i get more in return, i am stayign in europe |
| 18:03.57 | Lunessa | Enjoy nevcairiel. :D I don't dislike Europe at all. |
| 18:04.17 | A-KO | nevcairiel: you also can't factor in the cost of what it also takes to live here, either. You get far more for your taxes, but in addition to our taxes we pay insurance, and a whole lot of it. |
| 18:04.18 | nevcairiel | just our believes and values? :) |
| 18:04.31 | Cide | coming now |
| 18:04.50 | cbreak | money isn't a medium of exchange |
| 18:04.55 | cbreak | money is a medium of invention |
| 18:05.18 | cbreak | if you deposit money on a bank, they can invent 90% more or so |
| 18:05.21 | cbreak | and loan it out |
| 18:05.26 | cbreak | and *poof*, new money |
| 18:05.43 | nevcairiel | A-KO: so i get from my 30% cut my health insurance already, and you have to pay extra .. again .. why would i want to leave? :D |
| 18:05.43 | A-KO | I'll throw out some real figures here since it's hard to get a grasp with all this BS talk :P |
| 18:05.46 | Lunessa | nevcairiel: No, I just don't want to live in a place where the state is the major provider of everything. If I wanted that, I could emigrate. I choose to live here, where the state isn't (yet) the provider of all. |
| 18:06.08 | nevcairiel | But where is the drawback of that? |
| 18:06.10 | nevcairiel | I don't pay more |
| 18:06.13 | nevcairiel | i even pay less |
| 18:06.24 | nevcairiel | you just dont like poor people? |
| 18:06.35 | A-KO | Lunessa: You're unfortunately aiming your viewpoint at the wrong target here. "The State" is nothing more than people, people like you or I, or people like those at the corporate overlords that really control our nation :P |
| 18:06.39 | nevcairiel | Manage yourself or die? |
| 18:06.58 | Lunessa | And I'm not trying to convince anyone to move. I'm saying I think most of the people saying we need socioeconomic overhaul based on wanting a euro model haven't thought it all the way through. |
| 18:07.18 | A-KO | I'll throw out some figures here since it's hard to get a grasp on what the costs are just by talking BS |
| 18:07.20 | cbreak | maybe they thought and said "sounds neat. let's experiment!" |
| 18:07.22 | Lunessa | nevcairiel: I'm currently "poor" by many standards. |
| 18:07.43 | cbreak | in switzerland, we have mandatory insurance healthcare. it's a pain. |
| 18:07.59 | Lunessa | But I live in a rich nation. I have a home, internet access, a car, and all the food I care to eat. Medicine if I am sick. Entertainment when I want to pay for it. |
| 18:08.03 | cbreak | but from what I heard, it's just the second most expensive country with respect to health |
| 18:08.08 | A-KO | My last paycheck stats: $1,875 gross pay ; broken down to $256.29 Fed tax, $112 social security, $26 medicare, $130 state, $3.54 vision insurance, $10 parking, $7 dental, $7 legal, $41 healthcare :P |
| 18:08.24 | nevcairiel | vision insurance? |
| 18:08.47 | A-KO | the $41 healthcare doesn't include the actual cost of getting healthcare, though. There's also the $20 copay, every time you visit a doctor, and the $35 copay for medications (generics) |
| 18:08.53 | Lunessa | medical coverage for eye exams and corrective lenses. Usually a supplemental policy to other medical coverage. |
| 18:09.19 | nevcairiel | thats just plainly covered in our mandatory health insurance :d |
| 18:09.27 | A-KO | my vision plan doesn't actually really give me much, I still paid $250 for my glasses, and pay about $60 every time I go to the eye doctor. |
| 18:09.48 | A-KO | regular lenses, btw, for astygmatism...nothing fancy, no auto darkening lenses, etc |
| 18:09.50 | A-KO | though I'm tempted to get those |
| 18:09.53 | Lunessa | nevcairiel: Do you pay a monthly fee or a tax specifically for medical coverage? |
| 18:10.31 | nevcairiel | Of course |
| 18:10.43 | nevcairiel | but its already in my 30% tax included |
| 18:10.49 | cbreak | don't get auto-darkening lenses |
| 18:10.54 | Lunessa | A-KO: I don't pay for vision coverage. I pay roughtly $700 or so for new glasses. |
| 18:10.56 | A-KO | nevcairiel: Lunessa's unfortunately attacking words and nothing more. "tax" and "state" and "government", equally can be replaced in the US with "insurance" and "corporation". They are synonyms really. The only difference is that one group of people was built for the common good of everyone else, and the other was built for accumulation of wealth at all costs :P |
| 18:10.57 | cbreak | they won't become dark enough fast enough to be comfortable |
| 18:11.04 | cbreak | just get corrected sunglasses instead |
| 18:11.34 | nevcairiel | The advantage being that healthcare is controlled by laws here |
| 18:12.03 | A-KO | but, I do think people need a dose of reality here. There was a recent article on digg where someone spent $600,000 to live for 6 months or something like that |
| 18:12.05 | A-KO | for cancer |
| 18:12.06 | A-KO | ended up dying |
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| 18:12.16 | A-KO | It's a shame, and it's sad--but I think people need to be more realistic with their goals |
| 18:12.30 | Lunessa | A-KO: No. The State is a collective for government and has the ability to enact and enforce law. A corporation is a legal entity for the conducting of business - usually that business is creating/amassing wealth for it's stake-holders. It doesn't get to make law and shoot you. |
| 18:12.35 | cbreak | we have laws for voluntary death I think. |
| 18:12.38 | A-KO | Perhaps I might think differently if I was in that situation, but I would assume not--living will telling my family to NOT keep me alive if I cannot make the decision for myself :P |
| 18:12.43 | cbreak | but some politicians moan about it |
| 18:12.52 | A-KO | Lunessa: If you think corporations don't define law at this point, you've got another thing coming :) |
| 18:13.14 | Ginji | Read ACTA drama much lately? |
| 18:13.16 | Lunessa | Actually, I have lots of thinks coming, but no more from you. |
| 18:13.19 | cbreak | bribery is illegal, not impossible |
| 18:13.35 | A-KO | Ginji: yeah I'm actually surprised (and a bit disappointed) that Obama stood up for it |
| 18:13.36 | cbreak | maybe it's not even illegal if you call it "donation" |
| 18:14.06 | A-KO | cbreak: and funnel the dollars through bank accounts that go through nations that don't keep records/don't publish where the money goes ;) |
| 18:14.23 | cbreak | do not try to scratch our banking secrecy! |
| 18:14.27 | cbreak | everyone hates us :( |
| 18:14.29 | cbreak | *cry* |
| 18:14.43 | A-KO | Ginji: Such a standpoint will affect my voting habits in future elections |
| 18:14.56 | cbreak | the funny thing is, many other countries or even US states do similar things, and they don't get bashed on... |
| 18:15.01 | foxlit | A-KO: As if you had a choice. |
| 18:15.07 | A-KO | foxlit: true that ;) |
| 18:15.08 | nevcairiel | the EU declined ACTA anyway :d |
| 18:15.17 | cbreak | no |
| 18:15.18 | Ginji | I don't mind the fact that there are plans for ACTA, I just mind that their being so secretive about it |
| 18:15.18 | A-KO | foxlit: I'd like to assume I do, so I'll go along with the charade. |
| 18:15.30 | Ginji | If it affects me I want to know about it |
| 18:15.32 | cbreak | they said "We want to know what it's about so we can vote about it" |
| 18:15.39 | cbreak | they did not say "get that thing out of here" |
| 18:15.47 | foxlit | It's just that it's pretty unlikely that you'll find any candidate that'll ultimately say "Hey, let's not enforce our IP" |
| 18:15.49 | nevcairiel | they will, anyway |
| 18:16.01 | cbreak | it was a vote for more power to the EU parliament |
| 18:16.02 | A-KO | foxlit: the aristocracy is the same regardless of what terms are used ;) Government or corporation, generally all the same. |
| 18:16.14 | nevcairiel | they already killed SWIFT, i dont see another end for ACTA |
| 18:16.36 | cbreak | I hope they do |
| 18:16.38 | A-KO | one only has to look as far as the DMCA or ACTA to see who truly rules the world |
| 18:17.13 | A-KO | anyways, bbs, gonna go pick up some pet stain cleaner |
| 18:17.32 | Ginji | Your pet has a stain? |
| 18:17.58 | A-KO | my pet made a stain on my bed |
| 18:18.01 | A-KO | that requires cleaning |
| 18:18.12 | cbreak | a bed cleaner |
| 18:18.18 | Ginji | I'd buy a new bed |
| 18:18.23 | airtonix | this new development intrigues me |
| 18:18.36 | Ginji | code bubbles? |
| 18:18.44 | cbreak | code bubbles :/ |
| 18:18.50 | airtonix | i hope your pet is not a rhinoceros |
| 18:19.01 | Ginji | That would be one mighty stain |
| 18:19.16 | airtonix | i think the smell would be a more pressing issue |
| 18:19.35 | Ginji | But no, can't be a rhino, otherwise he'd be looking for a new bed |
| 18:19.41 | Ginji | instead of a stain cleaner |
| 18:20.04 | airtonix | ok maybe it's a iphone user |
| 18:20.10 | Ginji | the rhino? |
| 18:20.17 | airtonix | no the stainer |
| 18:20.26 | cbreak | probably not |
| 18:20.27 | airtonix | they get quite excited |
| 18:20.38 | cbreak | there are not many animals that have fingers required for touch input |
| 18:20.59 | Ginji | depends on the technology used in the touch screen device |
| 18:21.09 | cbreak | multi-touch. |
| 18:21.10 | airtonix | well its not a chimpanzee since they throw their excrement |
| 18:21.18 | cbreak | you need multiple fingers to use it optimally |
| 18:23.53 | Ginji | Well, my dad still uses only one finger for keyboard typing |
| 18:23.54 | Lopeppeppy | .... |
| 18:24.03 | Ginji | So, that point is moot |
| 18:24.42 | Ginji | Cat's could prolly operate it, provided buttons are large enough |
| 18:24.44 | Ginji | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bmhjf0rKe8 ! |
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| 18:28.36 | airtonix | A-KO, did you play any loud noises recently ? |
| 18:30.16 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 18:36.37 | Cidwel | hurr durr |
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| 18:38.28 | Fisker | HELLO SHADOWED |
| 18:40.55 | amro | ~whalepunt Fisker |
| 18:40.56 | purl | ACTION looks onward as an everest-sized whale called Victor punts Fisker across Soviet Russia (No... you don't punt whales there) |
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| 18:44.49 | Cidwel | anyone knows an addon to track buffs in raid? long ago I've used an addon that tracks buffs and reports to anyone what buff is missing only if there's in raid the class that could do that buff.. |
| 18:45.24 | Cidwel | if there's not an addon like that I think that would be my next project.... |
| 18:46.12 | Cidwel | the addons that I'm testing shows when you miss gift of the wild even if there's no druid in raid :S |
| 18:48.49 | Fisker | http://blue.mmo-champion.com/1/23767609067-blizzard-at-pax-east.html <-zomg |
| 18:49.40 | nevcairiel | funny how they hang around at the nvidia booth but cant even improve their performance on nvidia cards |
| 18:50.53 | alestane | http://xkcd.com/714/ |
| 18:51.19 | Lopeppeppy | you missed the discussion earlier, alestane. :P |
| 18:51.31 | alestane | Classes will do that. |
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| 18:53.25 | Fisker | what say you nevcairiel ? |
| 18:54.29 | Lopeppeppy | oh sweet goddess on a pogo stick, someone save me from WebEx hell. |
| 18:55.38 | Shirik | WebEx! |
| 18:55.57 | nevcairiel | Fisker: that WoW on nvidia cards sucks |
| 18:55.58 | Lopeppeppy | Hell. |
| 18:56.16 | Fisker | i disagree nevcairiel |
| 18:56.41 | nevcairiel | ever since they implemented the 3D shit, the performance is just bad |
| 18:57.03 | Fisker | i still disagree |
| 18:57.13 | nevcairiel | who cares what you think |
| 18:57.50 | Fisker | who cares what you think? |
| 18:58.18 | Adys | btw nevcairiel |
| 18:58.20 | Adys | http://www.quirksmode.org/css/contents.html |
| 18:58.33 | nevcairiel | yeah i figured out why it wasnt working |
| 18:58.34 | Kraps | "I can remember a few times when the healer was down but I managed to avoid several hits in a row and we beat the boss. Is that a great gearing strategy for beating a boss? Not really. But the nice thing about random numbers is how much fun it can be when they do roll in your favor (see Las Vegas). " |
| 18:58.39 | nevcairiel | silly Sass doesnt understand nth-child |
| 19:03.19 | alestane | You always find interesting things to curse by, Peppy. |
| 19:05.01 | Cidwel | when blizzard is going to make a simple GetUnitSpec() or something like that? no one is requesting this in suggestions? |
| 19:05.04 | Lopeppeppy | unique is me |
| 19:05.15 | nevcairiel | wtf is that supposed to do? |
| 19:05.42 | Cidwel | o___o |
| 19:06.01 | nevcairiel | We usually only request stuff thats *not possible*, not stuff thats possible but requires 3 more lines of code |
| 19:07.30 | Cidwel | but, in order to know your unit spec, you need to make a query to all of the players |
| 19:07.37 | Cidwel | *heir unit |
| 19:07.43 | Cidwel | **t -shit |
| 19:07.49 | nevcairiel | why? |
| 19:07.50 | Cide | wtf? |
| 19:08.23 | mikma | what? |
| 19:08.25 | Cidwel | I mean, how addons know if you are a frost or arcane mage? you could watch their magic shields but.. |
| 19:08.37 | nevcairiel | get into inspect range, and check talents |
| 19:08.44 | mikma | point distribution in talenttree |
| 19:08.47 | alestane | Talent information is available through the inspection API. |
| 19:09.00 | Cidwel | okay, you need to get into inspect range to know if raid2 is a mage? |
| 19:09.22 | nevcairiel | no, you need to know if its frost or arcane, if its a mage is available before =P |
| 19:09.23 | alestane | I believe it's possible to inspect group members at any distance these days. |
| 19:09.59 | Cidwel | .. only if they have an addon to send data to other users |
| 19:10.29 | mikma | cidwel: UnitClass(raid2) |
| 19:10.43 | Cidwel | mikma i mean, you could do this at any distance |
| 19:11.01 | mikma | yes, but you need to be close to inspect |
| 19:11.01 | Cidwel | ¿why we cannot know the unit spec at any distance? |
| 19:11.25 | mikma | blizzard has decided its better like this |
| 19:11.32 | mikma | jajajajajajaa, pollo pollo |
| 19:11.32 | Cidwel | not really o_O I mean, GetRaidRosterInfo tells you quite anything except unit spec |
| 19:11.59 | Cidwel | que cojones |
| 19:12.08 | Lopeppeppy | I guess they dont think it's as important as you do. |
| 19:12.22 | alestane | It may also generate excessive server traffic. |
| 19:12.30 | Lopeppeppy | ^ |
| 19:12.35 | Adys | what would? |
| 19:12.42 | Adys | ah their spec |
| 19:13.16 | Cidwel | excesive server traffic? with something that simply know if you are a frost or arcane mage and reporting it like getraidrosterinfo do with an unit class or level? |
| 19:13.36 | nevcairiel | yes. |
| 19:13.45 | Cidwel | whaaA??! |
| 19:13.49 | Lopeppeppy | It gets exponential. |
| 19:13.51 | nevcairiel | Understand the different between static or semi-static values, and variable values |
| 19:13.53 | Lopeppeppy | Very fast. |
| 19:13.57 | mikma | you have tl remember that inspecting talents is not that old system |
| 19:13.57 | nevcairiel | the class for example, never changes |
| 19:14.00 | nevcairiel | thus static |
| 19:14.01 | Lunessa | Because sure as I'm a bald, vicious, intemperate bastard someone would start sending those queries for every unit they could think of from an addon. |
| 19:14.14 | nevcairiel | the spec changes all the time (in theory), so fully variable |
| 19:14.16 | Cidwel | ..nevcairiel |
| 19:14.21 | Cidwel | the char lvl |
| 19:14.33 | alestane | And it's not like there's really a whole lot of slack room in the system to begin with. |
| 19:14.43 | Cidwel | or, the location |
| 19:14.59 | Adys | to be fair that isnt true |
| 19:15.20 | Adys | talents are handled clientside mostly, transferred at load time |
| 19:15.38 | Adys | blizzard could perfectly transfer unit talents on their load as well |
| 19:15.51 | alestane | And as it happens, character level is one of the features NOT sent along with chat events. |
| 19:15.53 | nevcairiel | they dont like doing protocol extensions |
| 19:16.02 | Adys | sure they do |
| 19:16.06 | alestane | Precisely because it changes too much to be easily cached. |
| 19:16.20 | Adys | alestane: wut |
| 19:16.24 | Cidwel | ...location |
| 19:17.22 | alestane | And like a number of other values, remote unit location can take a moment to be updated when you mouse over the unit in question. |
| 19:20.07 | Fisker | iPad hits 150,000 units sold in the first 72 hours |
| 19:20.08 | Fisker | grrr |
| 19:20.09 | Fisker | GRRRRRR |
| 19:20.44 | Cidwel | at least it does more functions than a tamagotchi does |
| 19:21.33 | Fisker | touchscreen and colors? |
| 19:22.09 | Cidwel | nope, a tamagotchi can show colors |
| 19:22.53 | Cidwel | http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ICx42Ft4LU/SVyZ71MQXvI/AAAAAAAAAoM/sx9aAiaJOnY/s400/tamagotchi+sleeping.JPG |
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| 19:23.45 | Fisker | sweet |
| 19:24.21 | alestane | I had thought that at some point they enabled inspection of group members (only) at any distance, but looking at the patch notes I may have been confusing that with the ability to share quests at any distance. |
| 19:25.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 19:31.16 | airtonix | hi this patch we enable features that make gearscore(tm) easier |
| 19:31.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (~Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 19:34.54 | Kraps | like? |
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| 19:46.07 | Shirik | woot |
| 19:46.13 | Shirik | I got a 91 on test |
| 19:46.18 | Shirik | on a teacher that NEVER gives out As |
| 19:48.28 | Cide | nice |
| 19:52.17 | batrick | Shirik: that there be a contradiction |
| 19:52.25 | Shirik | .... |
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| 19:52.39 | batrick | better let your college know you should retake discrete math |
| 19:52.45 | zenzelezz | makes you wonder what Shirik had to "give out" for the grade |
| 19:52.49 | batrick | ^ |
| 19:52.54 | Shirik | batrick, don't you love C++? |
| 19:52.56 | Shirik | 1>SQLiteDatabase.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol "public: class std::basic_string<char,struct std::char_traits<char>,class std::allocator<char> > const & __thiscall IDEA::Database::IFieldSet::GetFieldName(int)const " (?GetFieldName@IFieldSet@Database@IDEA@@QBEABV?$basic_string@DU?$char_traits@D@std@@V?$allocator@D@2@@std@@H@Z) referenced in function "public: virtual class IDEA::Database::CResult __ |
| 19:52.57 | batrick | no |
| 19:53.00 | Shirik | You don't get any of that in C |
| 19:53.06 | batrick | that's fucking hideous |
| 19:54.21 | batrick | :1 |
| 19:54.24 | batrick | oops |
| 19:56.22 | airtonix | awesome : http://awlg.org/index.gen |
| 19:57.32 | airtonix | i gave it one word: 'test' and it gave me a 720kb 31,000 line file with stuff like : 5cr011X3 and cr34737F007 |
| 19:58.22 | airtonix | and some real english words |
| 19:59.07 | Adys | shirik |
| 19:59.15 | Adys | you know what the best infobot on wikipedia is? |
| 19:59.19 | Adys | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burton_Guster |
| 20:00.57 | olafski | hum, been formatting a usb drive with diskpart and it's been stuck at 25% for ages.. I guess I can take this as an indication that the drive is broken right? |
| 20:01.42 | Adys | olafski: it could be the formatter app |
| 20:01.49 | Adys | i had similar trouble with an usb flash drive |
| 20:01.53 | Adys | they just dont like usb |
| 20:01.58 | olafski | hm |
| 20:02.12 | olafski | but I'm following a guide to install win7 from usb and it told me to do exactly this |
| 20:02.23 | Adys | dunno, was on linux |
| 20:03.54 | olafski | I did format it using quick format before.. but that only gave me the fat32 option and this guide wants me to use ntfs |
| 20:04.11 | Shirik | adys, infobot? |
| 20:04.52 | nevcairiel | olafski: just get the tool from MS to create a usb boot disk from a win7 image |
| 20:06.05 | olafski | aye I'll do that :P |
| 20:06.06 | Adys | er |
| 20:06.08 | Adys | infobox shirik |
| 20:06.17 | olafski | I have some other indications that this thing is broken though.. but we'll see |
| 20:07.15 | Shirik | oh |
| 20:07.18 | Shirik | infobox |
| 20:07.20 | Shirik | what about them? |
| 20:07.30 | olafski | the aliases I guess? |
| 20:07.36 | Shirik | ROFL |
| 20:07.39 | Shirik | wow |
| 20:08.57 | Fisker | you should lol with me Shirik |
| 20:09.09 | nevcairiel | Adys: all his nick names? :D |
| 20:09.15 | Adys | yep |
| 20:09.27 | nevcairiel | well he gets a new one basically every ep, soo |
| 20:09.29 | nevcairiel | alot :) |
| 20:09.44 | Lunessa | User: "Our computer is too loud" Me: (This is common, some units have fans with manual switches on them and someone turns it all the way up): Press the switch on the fan all the way to the right. User: It's still too loud! Make it stop! Me: *headdesk* |
| 20:09.56 | Shirik | fixed |
| 20:10.08 | Adys | shirik you fail so much |
| 20:10.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 20:10.40 | Fisker | why won't you lol with me Shirik ? |
| 20:10.43 | nevcairiel | shirik censored information :( |
| 20:10.48 | Shirik | not censored |
| 20:10.51 | Adys | they do contribute to the article |
| 20:10.59 | Shirik | (cur) (prev) 16:09, 15 March 2010 Shirik (talk | contribs) (7,352 bytes) (boldly removing all these aliases. They're just distracting and don't contribute to the article) (rollback | undo) |
| 20:10.59 | Adys | but then again you'd need to watch the eps to understand that :P |
| 20:11.01 | Shirik | negative! |
| 20:11.06 | Shirik | I am told it is a "per episode gag" |
| 20:11.24 | nevcairiel | they are referenced cross-episode too! |
| 20:11.34 | Shirik | [[WP:BRD]]! |
| 20:12.01 | nevcairiel | we should start a new wikipedia without all those asine rules about relevance :P |
| 20:12.12 | Shirik | you know what it would become? |
| 20:12.20 | olafski | encyclopedia dramatica? |
| 20:12.23 | olafski | uncyclopedia? |
| 20:12.24 | Shirik | A collection of articles like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAT:CSD |
| 20:13.11 | Shirik | or yes, encyclopedia dramatica, conservapedia, uncyclopedia |
| 20:13.12 | Shirik | etc. |
| 20:13.22 | Shirik | however |
| 20:13.23 | Shirik | nevcairiel |
| 20:13.27 | Shirik | there is only one rule on wikipedia |
| 20:13.29 | nevcairiel | i didnt say without rules |
| 20:13.32 | Adys | Shirik, I think the point is you just removed a huge bunch of info a lot of people contributed to |
| 20:13.34 | nevcairiel | just without stupid rules |
| 20:13.39 | Shirik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IAR |
| 20:13.44 | Shirik | ^ the only important rule on Wikipedia |
| 20:14.11 | nevcairiel | yeah, and then a Shirik comes along and deletes information =( |
| 20:14.24 | Shirik | because that's what I think is appropriate! |
| 20:14.31 | nevcairiel | so what you think is law? |
| 20:14.33 | Shirik | WP:BRD! If you think my removal was unjustified, revert it |
| 20:14.34 | nevcairiel | restores! |
| 20:14.38 | Shirik | EXACTLY |
| 20:14.47 | Shirik | BRD stands for "Bold, revert, discuss" |
| 20:14.55 | Shirik | My comment even stated that it was the first step of that cycle |
| 20:15.35 | Lopeppeppy | Why do people get all worked up over this stuff... I just don't get it. |
| 20:15.44 | nevcairiel | we like arguing |
| 20:15.47 | Shirik | ^ |
| 20:15.53 | Adys | arguepedia |
| 20:16.01 | Shirik | they're just giving me a hard time because they don't like that I contribute to wikipedia |
| 20:16.11 | nevcairiel | contribute is adding! |
| 20:16.17 | olafski | I contributed something to wikipedia |
| 20:16.22 | Shirik | Hey |
| 20:16.22 | olafski | not as much as you probably ;p |
| 20:16.24 | Shirik | I contributed |
| 20:16.27 | Shirik | ~wiki aspect weaver |
| 20:17.13 | nevcairiel | I'm usually too lazy to properly lookup citations for an article |
| 20:17.16 | Lopeppeppy | does that come with pickles? |
| 20:17.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Xyphoid_ (proxyuser@203-97-201-166.dsl.clear.net.nz) |
| 20:17.26 | frontendloader | Shirik: stop deleting the encyclopedia dramatica page on wp :/ |
| 20:17.31 | Shirik | ? |
| 20:17.47 | Shirik | I didn't, and I'm not an admin :P |
| 20:18.06 | frontendloader | every time someone puts thoughtful effort into documenting ED's relevance |
| 20:18.12 | Shirik | Rofl |
| 20:18.14 | frontendloader | it gets nuked by some cocksure admin |
| 20:18.20 | Shirik | There's 23 deletion discussions on enyclopedia dramatica |
| 20:18.40 | Shirik | but none since february 15 2009 |
| 20:18.49 | nevcairiel | on another note, alice is a weird movie |
| 20:20.51 | frontendloader | an ED article would surely be the target of much vandalism though |
| 20:21.14 | DWSR | Shirik: For loops run until the specified condition is *true*, right? |
| 20:21.20 | Shirik | incorrect |
| 20:21.24 | frontendloader | what condition |
| 20:21.27 | zenzelezz | until it's false |
| 20:21.34 | Shirik | frontendloader: That's why it's semied |
| 20:21.55 | Kraps | shit, level 80 is gonna be expensive :( |
| 20:22.28 | olafski | nevcairiel: yeah I think this thing is broken.. guess I'll have to get a dvd |
| 20:22.35 | olafski | and, unfortunately, hook up a dvd player >_< |
| 20:23.43 | Adys | ~wiki burton guster |
| 20:24.29 | olafski | ~wiki Heron: Steam Machine |
| 20:24.47 | DWSR | Shirik: In Java, if I have an array of objects, can I just use the array.equals(otherarray) to check if they are both the same length and have the same elements at each position? |
| 20:25.06 | olafski | can you call any method on an array? |
| 20:25.23 | nevcairiel | DWSR: thats what equals is for |
| 20:25.24 | Shirik | you mean Arrays.equals()? |
| 20:25.30 | DWSR | Shirik: Yes, sorry. |
| 20:25.32 | Shirik | yes |
| 20:25.43 | nevcairiel | Also, i really wouldnt use arrays in java, they are a pain :( |
| 20:25.53 | nevcairiel | Use comfy lists, sets, maps, whatever |
| 20:26.03 | olafski | the signature would be Arrays.equals(array, otherarray) though |
| 20:26.04 | DWSR | Shirik: Will Arrays.equals return true for 2 arrays that are of different length but have the same elements in each position? |
| 20:26.11 | DWSR | olafski: It's not, but that's ok. |
| 20:26.15 | Shirik | no |
| 20:26.23 | DWSR | nevcairiel: Being forced to use arrays. :( |
| 20:26.23 | olafski | dwsr: it's not? :< |
| 20:26.24 | nevcairiel | equals is equal |
| 20:26.28 | nevcairiel | not half-equal |
| 20:26.28 | DWSR | olafski: It's not. |
| 20:26.48 | olafski | I don't see any method equals() in Arrays that only has one parameter |
| 20:26.59 | batrick | how can you say two arrays have the same element at each position when they have different lengths |
| 20:27.00 | Shirik | because there isn't one? |
| 20:27.01 | nevcairiel | one parameter doesnt make sense, too |
| 20:27.01 | olafski | must be me :P |
| 20:27.34 | DWSR | GAH. |
| 20:27.34 | krka | sure there is, it's inherited from object |
| 20:27.38 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 20:27.43 | nevcairiel | heh |
| 20:27.45 | olafski | krka: yes, but that doesn't do what dwsr wants I assume :P |
| 20:27.47 | krka | but Arrays is static, so you won't see it from a static context |
| 20:27.50 | nevcairiel | but its not a static function |
| 20:27.53 | olafski | that too |
| 20:27.56 | nevcairiel | bah too slow :) |
| 20:27.57 | olafski | so was I right or not :( |
| 20:28.47 | olafski | http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/util/Arrays.html#equals%28java.lang.Object[],%20java.lang.Object[]%29 is the one we're talking about I assume |
| 20:29.12 | DWSR | Ugh |
| 20:29.39 | DWSR | Why can't this fucking prof learn to use protected? |
| 20:29.55 | olafski | no answer, I'll assume I was right then :( |
| 20:30.03 | krka | it depends, is it relevant in your case DWSR? |
| 20:30.35 | DWSR | krka: I just want to check if this === that |
| 20:30.43 | krka | ===? |
| 20:30.47 | krka | this isn't php you know |
| 20:30.49 | DWSR | Sorry, finger twitch. |
| 20:30.51 | DWSR | :P |
| 20:31.01 | DWSR | I just want to know if the two above conditions are true. |
| 20:31.06 | airtonix | https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://www.offensive-security.com/documentation/backtrack-4-cuda-guide.pdf&pli=1 |
| 20:31.10 | krka | the introduction of php makes is hard to distinguish typos from real code :( |
| 20:31.30 | Adys | krka: in before shirik throws a generic comment about python, php and ______=======______ |
| 20:31.32 | Shirik | see nevcairiel |
| 20:31.32 | krka | =!== : "sort of almost equals if you squint and blink" |
| 20:31.35 | Shirik | this is what would happen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ppenish |
| 20:31.38 | Shirik | if you didn't have rules |
| 20:31.56 | zenzelezz | I think you misspelled penis |
| 20:31.58 | nevcairiel | i never said no rules, i just said less silly rules! :D |
| 20:32.04 | airtonix | lol |
| 20:32.23 | airtonix | fail : no ascii art |
| 20:32.25 | olafski | 21:32:12 < olafski> -exec Object a = new Object(); Object b = new Object(); Object[] as = new Object[]{a,b}; Object[] bs = new Object[]{a,b}; sysout(Arrays.equals(as, bs)); |
| 20:32.28 | olafski | 21:32:13 < Suzy-chan> true |
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| 20:33.04 | airtonix | zenzelezz, if you stare at that page for long enough you'll see a picture |
| 20:33.06 | nevcairiel | I'm not up on general politics on english wikipedia, i just know that the relevance argument is thrown around on every other article in german wikipedia these days, and that is just silly |
| 20:33.21 | zenzelezz | I never clicked the link |
| 20:34.43 | nevcairiel | people should ask if an article is complety irrelevant (and irrelephant), instead of being hypocrits about if its relevant |
| 20:35.39 | olafski | I tried to write an article about a video game once.. it's hard if it's a relatively unknown video game, since they expect sources of everything but there weren't many articles about it on the web.. so what do I do when I know a piece of information is correct from having played it? :< |
| 20:35.43 | airtonix | relephant: when its really an elephant. |
| 20:36.22 | Fisker | ~seen Shadowed |
| 20:36.25 | purl | shadowed is currently on #wowuidev (15h 49m 40s) #wowace (15h 49m 40s). Has said a total of 6 messages. Is idling for 9m 15s, last said: 'Gagorian: For CoH, is it just a flat +10% to COH?'. |
| 20:36.29 | Fisker | fuuuuuuu Shadowed |
| 20:36.57 | Shadowed | I'm going to keep ignoring you until you say something useful to indicate what you want |
| 20:39.42 | Fisker | i know of this concept known as not spend time asking something without knowing the recipient is there too answer |
| 20:40.01 | Shadowed | Sure you do, you leave a message! |
| 20:40.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso| (~Kaso@host86-162-124-102.range86-162.btcentralplus.com) |
| 20:40.21 | Fisker | - First, a note about Rawr3. Rawr3 has been in development for quite a while now, and we know that everyone's eager to get it. It's been held back for a while now by a showstopping issue that we've been trying to work around. I'm pleased to report that we've found an awesome solution to that showstopping issue (Shadowed rocks), |
| 20:40.23 | Fisker | zomg |
| 20:40.30 | Fisker | giev scoop |
| 20:40.45 | Shadowed | Not really any scoop :p |
| 20:41.32 | Shadowed | ElitistArmory has a system setup already to get around the armory IP throttles by distributing requests to 3rd party servers |
| 20:41.43 | Fisker | oh snaps |
| 20:41.48 | Fisker | why does rawr need this? |
| 20:41.51 | Shadowed | so been working with Astrylian the last week to give him an XML API to request and pull data from EA, which pulls from the armory |
| 20:42.18 | Shadowed | Silverlight applications (Rawr3) need a crossdomain.xml file on the server to allow requests from the application |
| 20:42.31 | Dagmar | uck |
| 20:42.33 | Dagmar | f |
| 20:42.43 | Dagmar | I can't help but think that this solution is wrong |
| 20:42.51 | Fisker | but wouldn't it pull from the client instead of using a server? |
| 20:42.55 | nevcairiel | yes, yes it is |
| 20:42.59 | Shadowed | mmmm? |
| 20:43.00 | Fisker | otherwise i would agree with Dagmar |
| 20:43.16 | Shadowed | There's not really another solution |
| 20:43.19 | Dagmar | Using proxies to bypass rate limits isn't cool |
| 20:43.20 | DWSR | Shadowed: I'd rather see EA store data for both my specs, and generate WoWhead talent links with glyphs in them. :) |
| 20:43.34 | Dagmar | ...not when the app could regularly make >50,000 requests in a very short span of time |
| 20:43.38 | Shadowed | It's not using proxies |
| 20:43.47 | nevcairiel | proxies, servers, all the same |
| 20:43.49 | Shadowed | Well, yes it is. But it's not a literal proxy in that sense |
| 20:43.50 | DWSR | ^ |
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| 20:44.08 | Dagmar | Well, at least it's just *one* host doing it |
| 20:44.10 | Shadowed | It's what most of the miners are already doing |
| 20:44.11 | nevcairiel | Other apps can load profiles from the armory, why does that silly thing need a workaround now? |
| 20:44.23 | Shadowed | nevcairiel: It's some Silverlight/Flash limitation |
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| 20:44.38 | nevcairiel | Why would you write a whole app in that anyway =( |
| 20:44.42 | Shadowed | shrugs |
| 20:44.47 | DWSR | Silverlight bleh. |
| 20:44.48 | Fisker | So a silverlight app can't use local resources? |
| 20:44.49 | DWSR | barfs. |
| 20:44.54 | amro | Shadowed: so silverlight uses the exact same mechanism as flash? |
| 20:44.56 | Dagmar | It can |
| 20:45.07 | amro | isn't that... dumb considering how retarded the flash mechanism is? |
| 20:45.11 | Fisker | Then i don't see the issue |
| 20:45.12 | foxlit | Fisker: "The Internet wants access to your hard disk? Cancel or Exterminate?" |
| 20:45.14 | Fisker | just use my connection |
| 20:45.14 | Shadowed | amro: I think just the authorization method |
| 20:45.23 | Fisker | exterminate foxlit |
| 20:45.25 | foxlit | s/?/./ |
| 20:45.30 | amro | foxlit: it doesn't |
| 20:45.34 | amro | it just raises an exception |
| 20:45.39 | Shadowed | All I know is it's a Silverlight limitation that can be worked around using a crossdomain.xml file, Blizzard's been (apparently) slow on adding it so Rawr3 is going to use ElitistArmory (which has the crossdomain.xml) to do it |
| 20:45.51 | foxlit | amro: it would, if what fisker is suggesting would be implemented. |
| 20:46.03 | Fisker | seems like it would be something you wouldn't want |
| 20:46.04 | Fisker | ;3 |
| 20:46.25 | Shadowed | the proxying stuff EA does is pretty common, eg see Armory Lite |
| 20:46.42 | amro | I couldn't develop flash on an offline machine because the app needed to use local resources, and I couldn't connect to the flash website to get the settings manager to add an exception |
| 20:46.44 | Shadowed | There's no way any site isn't using some sort of proxying either directly (File to redirect) or indirectly by having multiple servers running miners |
| 20:46.53 | Dagmar | So long as it's a website doing it, and not an app in the hands of thousands of users |
| 20:47.02 | nevcairiel | good that i never used rawr before, i certainly wouldnt touch a silverlight or flash app |
| 20:47.10 | Dagmar | Rawr as it currently is will *readily* go and pound the crap out of both wowhead and armory |
| 20:47.25 | airtonix | muwahaha |
| 20:47.34 | Dagmar | ...which just gets you blocked. |
| 20:47.41 | Shadowed | Where do you think wowhead gets their profile data? :p |
| 20:47.44 | airtonix | insert botnet |
| 20:47.47 | Dagmar | ffs |
| 20:47.48 | Shadowed | they certainly don't do it with a single server |
| 20:47.53 | Dagmar | I'm sure they don't. |
| 20:48.08 | airtonix | <the instance server is down> |
| 20:48.22 | Dagmar | But what's that got to do with one site bypassing limits so that *it* can handle proxy requests, and thousands of users doing it |
| 20:48.29 | DWSR | Shadowed: So why can't Rawr pull off of WoWhead or EA? |
| 20:48.35 | DWSR | As opposed to pulling off of the armory? |
| 20:48.41 | Shadowed | errr what Dagmar, I think you're getting confused |
| 20:48.53 | Dagmar | No I'm not. I don't have a problem with the websites bypassing |
| 20:49.02 | Shadowed | I'm pretty sure you are |
| 20:49.44 | Shadowed | This is just my understanding of it, as it was explained to me: Rawr3 can request data from the armory, through elitistjerks, the problem is it'll hit throttle limits. Which means it needs a system of queuing etc (What ElitistArmory already does). |
| 20:49.56 | Dagmar | No, I'm not. |
| 20:50.01 | Shadowed | Rawr3 cannot use the local resources (IP) of the user so each user loads the armory profile, because it doesn't have a crossdomain.xml file |
| 20:50.17 | Shadowed | There's no difference from the user just loading the armory themselves and pulling the data off of it |
| 20:50.27 | Dagmar | I've actually watched Rawr get me blocked by both wowhead and the armory several times |
| 20:51.11 | Dagmar | ...because if you tell it "load all possible upgrades from armory" or a few other options that sound like that, it'll do it... as fast as it can |
| 20:51.34 | foxlit | I wonder why they don't ship a local db. |
| 20:51.38 | Shadowed | I don't work on Rawr, I have no idea what it does and doesn't do. But yes, it's quite easy to get banned from the armory unless you're careful |
| 20:52.00 | Dagmar | I thought for a minute there the grand solution was for rawr to start networking with other rawr clients or something to spread the load around, which would still result in thousands of hits at once to no real use |
| 20:52.02 | Shadowed | DWSR: It does, that's what this change is doing. Rawr3 will pull from EA now |
| 20:52.12 | DWSR | Ah, good. |
| 20:52.12 | Dagmar | Pulling from EA tho... that should work |
| 20:52.16 | Shadowed | Dagmar: Right, going through another server is a better solution overall |
| 20:52.19 | Fisker | jus tremember it's illegal Shadowed ! |
| 20:52.34 | Shadowed | because it'll pull from EAs cache unless they force a recache |
| 20:52.47 | Dagmar | No one's going to flinch at one host bypassing transfer limits so that it can actually serve as a cache for many other clients |
| 20:53.15 | Dagmar | Half the bloody squids on the planet used to be configured to allow you to be exempt from transfer speed limitations, if you were another squid cache |
| 20:54.11 | Shadowed | I'm actually curious what wowhead and armorylite do request wise |
| 20:54.15 | Dagmar | Rawr _does_ actually ship with a database, unless they're taking that out of Rawr3 |
| 20:54.26 | Dagmar | You know how the stuff goes out of date tho |
| 20:54.38 | Shadowed | No, it has a database of items still Dagmar. It'll pull items through EA if they are non existent thought |
| 20:54.52 | foxlit | Once per patch, which isn't very often. |
| 20:54.59 | Dagmar | ...and thank god it's not a full database. Just the stuff you might care about as you get into yer 70's |
| 20:55.08 | Shadowed | It's not as bad once you have the initial database thought |
| 20:55.35 | Dagmar | I started to start populating a mysql here with the data |
| 20:55.35 | Shadowed | the initial database requires about 3 connections base, 4+ depending what achievement/statistics you want. After that you can update based on login time |
| 20:56.03 | Dagmar | Mah apps server got a little mad at me |
| 20:56.09 | Shadowed | yea |
| 20:56.25 | Shadowed | I'm running a few miners right now and I keep getting CPU alerts |
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| 20:56.45 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Kody-] by ChanServ |
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| 20:57.15 | Shadowed | Actually I think they stopped |
| 20:57.32 | Dagmar | I was rather hoping (at the time) to cook up something that would straighten out gear from 40 to 80 |
| 20:57.59 | Dagmar | That's a hell of a lot more data than I first thought |
| 20:58.05 | Shadowed | haha |
| 20:58.12 | Shadowed | Just trying to get items from 40 - 80? |
| 20:58.22 | Dagmar | Oh yeah |
| 20:58.39 | Dagmar | Once you throw in the "of the Tom/Dick/Harry" |
| 20:58.40 | Shadowed | Just >200 item level stuff was 6000 items, that was pretty fun |
| 20:59.07 | Dagmar | It's like trying to refold a hot air baloon on yer twin bed |
| 20:59.08 | DWSR | Shirik: I have to add a serial version ID to custom exception classes within Java? |
| 20:59.33 | Shadowed | There isn't actually a throttle on pulling item data thought, as long as you don't get crazy and thread say 10 requests at once every second |
| 20:59.42 | Dagmar | There is on Armory |
| 21:00.04 | Shadowed | this is on armory |
| 21:00.12 | Dagmar | Rawr (unless they've added it in the last six months) has no self-restraint |
| 21:00.31 | Shadowed | yea Rawrs issue was that it used threads to request more when talking to Astrylian |
| 21:00.54 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (~spode@213-21-80-251.bon.t3.se) |
| 21:01.18 | Shadowed | It's not the normal request per second throttle you see on a few of the pages, I'd imagine it's some sort of "OH GOD MANY REQUESTS THEY SHOUDLN'T BE DOING" |
| 21:01.23 | Shadowed | Anyway back in a bit |
| 21:01.36 | Dagmar | Oh yeah that's the impression I got |
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| 21:12.28 | Shadowed | Dagmar: It's a little odd what they do and don't throttle, as far as I can tell they throttle anything that touches character data, but not arena/guild/etc |
| 21:13.11 | *** join/#wowuidev adimit (~adimit@g227091181.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 21:14.53 | adimit | Quick question: if a source code file is listed in the .toc, that should get it loaded, right? I'm trying to check that by putting a file containing print("Hello") in the .toc, but I can't see any output. Did I miss anything? |
| 21:15.04 | DWSR | adimit: Yes. |
| 21:15.27 | Shadowed | adimit: Did you get your slashes right? |
| 21:15.44 | adimit | Shadowed: no kidding, it's windows, so backwards slashes, right? |
| 21:15.50 | adimit | damn, I think I only used /, not \ |
| 21:16.08 | Shadowed | yea, should be \ |
| 21:16.17 | Shadowed | localization\enUS.lua will work, localization/enUS.lua will not |
| 21:16.43 | adimit | Shadowed: tyvm! Would've never figured that out myself :-\ ... that's what I get for being a Linux nerd ^^ |
| 21:17.01 | Shadowed | No problem, I've done that before it's a bit of a head scratch till you realize that |
| 21:19.02 | adimit | One more question: does a /reload *always* work (i.e. load the entire UI from scratch, sans saved vars) as long as the files stay the same? |
| 21:19.03 | frontendloader | they're also loaded from top to bottom in order :/ |
| 21:19.14 | frontendloader | no new files are loaded with a /reload |
| 21:19.18 | frontendloader | you have to exit |
| 21:19.31 | frontendloader | if you create a new file |
| 21:19.46 | adimit | frontendloader: yeah, I know it. But I've had stuff not update, even though it was in the same file... but maybe that's just me and my crappy code. |
| 21:20.00 | Shadowed | adimit: Keep in mind that some events don't fire on reload |
| 21:20.16 | Shadowed | Most do, but not all of them |
| 21:20.33 | Xyphoid_ | so I want to filter the default tradeskill UI. i've got something working with copying the blizz TradeSkillFrame_Update and skipping tradeskills, but i'm kind of nervous about the fact that i now have 160 lines of blizzard code with five lines of my code in the middle |
| 21:20.37 | adimit | Shadowed: right... I remember there's a couple of events... any list of those that don't? |
| 21:20.43 | Xyphoid_ | is this a terrible approach |
| 21:20.54 | Shadowed | Not offhand, easiest way to check is to output the events that fire on login and check on reload |
| 21:21.06 | frontendloader | player_entering_world |
| 21:21.07 | frontendloader | probably |
| 21:21.19 | adimit | Shadowed: good idea :-) |
| 21:22.01 | Shadowed | PEW fires on reload |
| 21:22.19 | frontendloader | what a cute abbv |
| 21:22.51 | Shadowed | Xyphoid_: That will work, it's probably not the best solution... but you're kind of limited in what you can do for something like that |
| 21:22.59 | Shadowed | You could try hooking, but that might be more ugly |
| 21:23.20 | Xyphoid_ | yeah, hooking worked for individual button updates etc in a way that felt clean |
| 21:23.23 | *** part/#wowuidev Thaoky (Thaoky@91.181.175.16) |
| 21:23.42 | adimit | hehe :-) BTW, would you think that writing Grid-like raid healing frames w/o using Ace would be a good idea? I'm not a big fan of Ace, from what I've gathered so far... |
| 21:24.17 | Shadowed | Ace3 is fine :p |
| 21:24.41 | Shadowed | You could do it if you wanted, but writing your own just to get away from Ace3 is a waste of time in my opinion |
| 21:24.56 | adimit | I just don't know what it actually buys me over just using oUF. |
| 21:24.59 | Xyphoid_ | i was kind of hoping that you could hook into the filter dropdowns but discovered the Subclass and InvSlot dropdowns call straight into API functions |
| 21:25.38 | Xyphoid_ | now I see why all these tradeskill mods do their own frames... |
| 21:25.43 | adimit | Well, I live by the credo that coding for fun is almost never a waste of time... |
| 21:25.51 | Shadowed | adimit: Libraries are basically there to make your life easier, it's all things you could do yourself but libraries stop you from doing it |
| 21:26.20 | Shadowed | It's not as much a waste of time, it's unnecessary. I find most of Ace3 to be not very useful, but AceDB-3.0 and AceGUI/AceConfig are the two really nice parts |
| 21:26.35 | Shadowed | You can write your own GUI code, but if you want to do anything complex it's a lot easier if you have a library doing it |
| 21:26.36 | nevcairiel | its what you need the most, too |
| 21:26.40 | Shadowed | yea |
| 21:26.45 | adimit | Shadowed: yeah, but there's libraries and there's libraries... but if you would recommend using Ace that's exactly what I wanted to hear :-) |
| 21:26.52 | Dagmar | THe key being that it's code you're no longer responsible for |
| 21:26.59 | adimit | Yeah, true. |
| 21:27.01 | Shadowed | adimit: I recommend using whatever fits :p |
| 21:27.24 | Shadowed | SUF uses AceDB and AceGUI/AceConfig because they are quite helpful for it, I don't use AceAddon or AceEvent because they are mostly wasted in it |
| 21:27.32 | Shadowed | other addons I use AceAddon/AceEvent to be lazy, but I could do it myself in a few lines |
| 21:27.35 | adimit | Configuration window is what I'm most scared of. Profile managing stuff and putting buttons where they belong... :-\ |
| 21:27.45 | nevcairiel | AceAddon is basically just a bunch of lines |
| 21:27.46 | Shadowed | The problem is more you have people who toss every single library into their addons and never learn when not to use them |
| 21:27.48 | frontendloader | wouldn't a unitframe addon be the ideal place to use aceevent |
| 21:27.49 | adimit | So Ace might be a good idea :) |
| 21:28.08 | Shadowed | adimit: You can also just use the AceGUI/AceConfig and not include DB/Event/AddOn/etc |
| 21:28.46 | Shadowed | frontendloader: No, 99% of the events SUF does are in the unit frames themselves, AceEvent is more suited for a single dispatch, not really a smart "Is this a unit event I care about" or being able to disable watching events if a frames hidden |
| 21:28.51 | nevcairiel | when i were to do a SV without AceDB i would probably re-implement alot of the default handling again .. naah |
| 21:29.04 | adimit | Shadowed: I might do so. I definitely wanna be using oUF though, it's a neat framework. |
| 21:29.31 | KarlKFI | Can try Portfolio if you don't want a complicated confgi window |
| 21:29.39 | adimit | But if the two can be mixed and matched, that's exactly what I want to... |
| 21:29.41 | airtonix | !lua |
| 21:29.43 | Shadowed | tekkub did some nice little mini-libraries too |
| 21:29.58 | Shadowed | http://github.com/tekkub/tekkonfig |
| 21:30.00 | airtonix | ~lua |
| 21:30.01 | purl | Lua is a powerful light-weight programming language designed for extending applications. It is often used as a configuration language. See http://www.lua.org/. Note: Lua is not an acronym. It is the Portuguese word for "moon". |
| 21:30.15 | nevcairiel | We especially designed Ace3 to no longer have many internal depedencies, so that you can use singular libs without using the whole thing |
| 21:30.15 | Xyphoid_ | also are there any good resources about wow mod licensing |
| 21:30.16 | adimit | Yeah, tekkub's stuff is pretty awesome. That loot window is just What Blizzard Should Have Done... |
| 21:30.44 | Shadowed | Xyphoid_: You mean, you want to license your addon or? |
| 21:30.44 | nevcairiel | AceConfig obviously depends on AceGUI because thats what actually renders the frames, but other then that, there aren't many deps |
| 21:31.16 | adimit | nevcairiel: sounds very good :-) I don't like a place where every addon I use comes with a gazillion deps packaged with it :-\ makes UI loads just that much slower... |
| 21:31.26 | KarlKFI | Portfolio: http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info11749-Portfolio.html |
| 21:31.27 | airtonix | nevcairiel, can't you use aceconfgi by itself and just provide a chat inteface instead / |
| 21:31.39 | nevcairiel | sure, if you just want AceConfigCmd |
| 21:31.40 | DWSR | airtonix: Yes. |
| 21:31.41 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 21:31.48 | airtonix | thought so |
| 21:31.51 | KarlKFI | can't garentee much int he way of improvements, but i can always patch it up if you need something |
| 21:31.53 | nevcairiel | but slash interfaces are so 2006 |
| 21:32.02 | Shadowed | airtonix: My rule of slash interfaces is, if you can't do it yourself easily, you need a GUI :P |
| 21:32.14 | Xyphoid_ | i'll probably want to distribute this mod at some point, so I assume i need to be careful about copying code from other mods |
| 21:32.29 | nevcairiel | i usually provide my options table as slash for people wanting to macro |
| 21:32.35 | nevcairiel | but i dont optimize for it |
| 21:32.43 | airtonix | thats why slash inteface is good |
| 21:32.49 | Shadowed | Xyphoid_: Most people are pretty relaxed on that, as long as you don't copy all of there code and pass it off as yours, you won't get in trouble |
| 21:32.59 | Xyphoid_ | eg GPL mods are fine if I GPL, I see a lot distributed with no license though |
| 21:33.01 | Shadowed | If you copy a lot of it, you can always message the author and ask them, as well as provide credit |
| 21:33.08 | Shadowed | No license means all rights reserved |
| 21:33.37 | Shadowed | Quick rule would be this: If you're copying a small function, nobody is going to ding you on that, if you're copying an entire function or a lot of the code, you should ask them. |
| 21:33.38 | KarlKFI | also usually means the author didn't care enough to license it |
| 21:33.48 | Xyphoid_ | 'all rights reserved' technically means i can't even run it? |
| 21:33.52 | Shadowed | KarlKFI: It means the addon is all right reserved, the author may not enforce it :P |
| 21:34.05 | KarlKFI | just saying |
| 21:34.08 | Shadowed | yea |
| 21:34.19 | Xyphoid_ | seems like an odd license for distributed code heh |
| 21:34.23 | Shadowed | As I said, most people are pretty lax on licenses, as long as you aren't trying to pass it off as your own work, people won't care |
| 21:34.27 | KarlKFI | it's a non-license |
| 21:34.30 | Shadowed | A lot of that has to do with wowmatrix |
| 21:35.05 | airtonix | so claiming "divine intervention" isn't enough? |
| 21:35.19 | Shadowed | :p |
| 21:36.10 | airtonix | how reliable do you think it is to base a screenlock on the proximity of your bluetooth mobilephone ? |
| 21:36.37 | krka | somewhat reliable, but really annoying |
| 21:36.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@c-76-107-191-65.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 21:36.46 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 21:36.57 | airtonix | yeah i mean bluetooth always on would drain your phone battery ? |
| 21:37.06 | KarlKFI | there's an app liek that for mac |
| 21:37.10 | KarlKFI | +iphone |
| 21:37.17 | KarlKFI | i tried it |
| 21:37.25 | KarlKFI | not particularly useful |
| 21:37.27 | Dagmar | Polling interval becomes a tiny issue |
| 21:37.45 | airtonix | http://sourceforge.net/projects/blueproximity/ |
| 21:38.02 | Dagmar | An RFID tag would be a better fit for that IMHO |
| 21:38.09 | airtonix | true |
| 21:38.20 | Dagmar | ...since it's a passive device and we're already soaking up plenty of RFI |
| 21:38.23 | KarlKFI | http://themha.com/airlock/ |
| 21:38.26 | A-KO | I've been considering getting a biometric reader for my laptop |
| 21:38.39 | airtonix | Dagmar, and an rfid reader/sensor for linux? |
| 21:38.47 | Dagmar | A-KO: At the moment, I suspect HP is the only logical choice for that |
| 21:38.59 | Dagmar | Something appears to have gone wrong in that space, and there's very few fingerprint readers around |
| 21:39.08 | A-KO | Dagmar: what do you mean? they sell external ones, do they not? Don't they have that mouse with a bio reader? |
| 21:39.18 | Dagmar | airtonix: That bit's actually really easy. SparkFun sells kits for that stuff |
| 21:39.36 | Dagmar | A-Ko: They do. There's just very few models of fingerprint readers around |
| 21:39.47 | A-KO | biometric reader + TPM + Bitlocker :P |
| 21:39.49 | A-KO | little overkill |
| 21:39.52 | Dagmar | Logically there should be plenty by now |
| 21:39.59 | DWSR | Shirik!! :P |
| 21:40.04 | Shirik | WHAT |
| 21:40.06 | Shirik | I'm very busy |
| 21:40.08 | DWSR | Fine. |
| 21:40.11 | DWSR | I'll ask someone else then. |
| 21:40.14 | airtonix | not nearly enough it seems |
| 21:40.21 | Shirik | http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&user=Shirik |
| 21:40.23 | Shirik | dealing with a mess of crap |
| 21:40.26 | Shirik | what do you need? |
| 21:40.45 | Dagmar | I looked for a _while_ to find a replacement for my Microsoft fingerprint reader--something that would actually have W7 drivers |
| 21:40.47 | DWSR | g.drawOval(gsX, gsX, operands.pop().iValue(), operands.pop().iValue()); <--- operands is a Stack. Does this return the top and then 2nd top value of operands? |
| 21:40.58 | Dagmar | What there is is a lot more expensive than IMHO it should be |
| 21:41.02 | DWSR | (i.e. will the first and second calls return differently, assuming that the elements are different.) |
| 21:41.06 | Shirik | you are not guaranteed the orrder |
| 21:41.12 | Shirik | i.e., don't do that |
| 21:41.31 | DWSR | ok |
| 21:42.37 | Shirik | I am a demi-god |
| 21:42.38 | Shirik | did you know that? |
| 21:42.42 | Shadowed | no you aren't |
| 21:42.47 | Shirik | YES I AM |
| 21:42.55 | DWSR | Shirik: I'm going to vandalize your page so badly. |
| 21:43.06 | DWSR | It'll make 4chan look like a timeless masterpiece. |
| 21:43.09 | DWSR | wait. |
| 21:43.10 | DWSR | Nevermind. |
| 21:43.12 | airtonix | Shirik, it seems you are lacking sleep.. |
| 21:43.26 | airtonix | or too much coffee (ampethamines, cocaine etc) |
| 21:43.42 | DWSR | airtonix: I believe you mean amphetamines. |
| 21:43.51 | airtonix | that too |
| 21:43.55 | Cide | no you aren't Shirik |
| 21:44.22 | DWSR | SLEEP |
| 21:44.26 | DWSR | FOR TEH WEAKZOR. |
| 21:45.01 | DWSR | Shirik: I'm at hour.......36 |
| 21:45.06 | DWSR | You been up a long time yet? |
| 21:45.13 | Shirik | (17:44:47) (+Shiibot) All clear. (All watched threads return HTTP status 404) |
| 21:45.16 | Shirik | ^ means I win |
| 21:45.48 | Cide | win what? |
| 21:45.55 | Cide | not the game, because you just lost that |
| 21:46.00 | DWSR | Cide: Break you |
| 21:46.01 | airtonix | monkey excrement |
| 21:46.18 | Shirik | Cide: The war against 4chan |
| 21:46.27 | Shirik | well, really, the war against JeremyArlaxle |
| 21:46.53 | Cide | I see |
| 21:46.59 | Cide | you're still slow |
| 21:47.29 | Shirik | :( |
| 21:47.34 | Shadowed | Did you make a bot to auto moderate 4chans attacks |
| 21:47.42 | Shirik | auto-detect |
| 21:47.46 | Shirik | moderation is manual |
| 21:48.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Stew_a (~Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 21:49.37 | airtonix | how do we use the lua thing here again ? |
| 21:49.48 | airtonix | ~lua print 8^8 |
| 21:49.50 | Shadowed | lua> |
| 21:49.52 | airtonix | ah |
| 21:49.53 | Shadowed | lua> print(true) |
| 21:49.54 | lua_bot | Shadowed: true |
| 21:49.56 | Shadowed | see |
| 21:49.59 | Shadowed | True is true |
| 21:50.00 | Shirik | EDI is in Lua |
| 21:50.05 | airtonix | lua> print(8^8) |
| 21:50.07 | lua_bot | airtonix: 16777216 |
| 21:50.15 | Shadowed | lua> true = false; print(true); |
| 21:50.15 | lua_bot | Shadowed: luabot:1: unexpected symbol near 'true' |
| 21:50.31 | airtonix | lua> print(8^8/256) |
| 21:50.32 | lua_bot | airtonix: 65536 |
| 21:50.37 | airtonix | lua> print(8^8/256/60) |
| 21:50.38 | lua_bot | airtonix: 1092.2666666667 |
| 21:50.39 | Shirik | lua> a = true; setmetatable(a, {__tostring = function() return "false";}) print(true) |
| 21:50.40 | lua_bot | Shirik: luabot:1: 'end' expected near '}' |
| 21:50.44 | Shirik | lua> a = true; setmetatable(a, {__tostring = function() return "false"; end}) print(true) |
| 21:50.45 | lua_bot | Shirik: luabot:1: bad argument #1 to 'setmetatable' (table expected, got boolean) |
| 21:50.48 | Shirik | ... |
| 21:50.57 | Shirik | batbot lets me do it :( |
| 21:51.53 | Shadowed | That doesn't count Shirik |
| 21:51.57 | Shadowed | also I think you wanted uh |
| 21:52.20 | Shadowed | lua> setmetatable(getfenv(0), {__tostring = function() return "false"; end}); print(true); |
| 21:52.21 | lua_bot | Shadowed: luabot:1: cannot change a protected metatable |
| 21:52.26 | Shadowed | Ah damn jnwhiteh |
| 21:52.34 | Shadowed | lua> setmetatable(_G, {__tostring = function() return "false"; end}); print(true); |
| 21:52.35 | lua_bot | Shadowed: luabot:1: cannot change a protected metatable |
| 21:52.41 | Shadowed | I wonder if you can get around that somehow |
| 21:52.56 | Shirik | I tried this a year ago |
| 21:53.46 | Shadowed | lua> setfenv(tostring, {tostring = function() return "false"; end}); print(true); |
| 21:53.47 | lua_bot | Shadowed: luabot:1: 'setfenv' cannot change environment of given object |
| 21:53.52 | Shadowed | bastard |
| 21:53.53 | Fisker | ties up Shirik |
| 21:54.10 | Shadowed | lua> setfenv(_G, {}) |
| 21:54.11 | lua_bot | Shadowed: luabot:1: bad argument #1 to 'setfenv' (number expected, got table) |
| 21:54.21 | Cide | lua> function tostring() return "false"; end print(true) |
| 21:54.23 | lua_bot | Cide: true |
| 21:54.23 | Shadowed | Yea I think glad locked down most of that when he did lua_bot originally |
| 21:54.34 | Shadowed | lua> setfenv(getfenv(0), {}) |
| 21:54.35 | lua_bot | Shadowed: luabot:1: bad argument #1 to 'setfenv' (number expected, got table) |
| 21:54.36 | Cide | my bot was more fun |
| 21:54.40 | Cide | it let you do stuff |
| 21:54.42 | Shadowed | number expected? |
| 21:55.38 | Shadowed | Oh huh weird |
| 22:00.05 | *** join/#wowuidev bleeter (~bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 22:00.12 | frontendloader | augh break the bot time |
| 22:00.15 | frontendloader | was 5 minutes ago |
| 22:01.27 | *** join/#wowuidev ArrowmasterClass (~arrow@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ResponsibleForEverythingAndNothing/Arrowmaster) |
| 22:01.28 | Shirik | no it was a year ago |
| 22:05.44 | alestane | Shadowed: |
| 22:05.55 | alestane | lua> setfenv(1, {}) |
| 22:05.56 | lua_bot | alestane: function: 0x895b3c0 |
| 22:06.07 | alestane | lua> setfenv(0, {}) |
| 22:06.08 | lua_bot | alestane: No output |
| 22:06.59 | alestane | lua> setfenv(0, {}); print "All Gone" |
| 22:06.59 | lua_bot | alestane: All Gone |
| 22:07.27 | alestane | Interesting, I knew the bot was protected but I didn't think it would protect individual statements. |
| 22:09.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Kody- (~kody@63.164.47.227) |
| 22:09.44 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Kody-] by ChanServ |
| 22:10.04 | jnwhiteh | =) |
| 22:10.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Kody (~kody@63.164.47.227) |
| 22:12.52 | Shadowed | alestane: yea I didn't realize you could pass a # to setfenv |
| 22:13.29 | alestane | Did you have to monkey with the interpreter to do that, jnwhiteh? |
| 22:13.45 | jnwhiteh | nope, it's a fairly simple Lua script =) |
| 22:14.31 | jnwhiteh | 328 lines |
| 22:14.58 | alestane | That's simpler than some things. Is the bot actually in Lua then? |
| 22:15.08 | ArrowmasterClass | so im taking a 100 question online final right now and have 3.5 hours to do it inclass but its not open book |
| 22:15.27 | ArrowmasterClass | if i pastey the entire test who wants to lookup all the answers for me? |
| 22:15.56 | jnwhiteh | alestane: Lua + luasocket + standard unix environment |
| 22:15.58 | jnwhiteh | alestane: http://cladhaire.pastey.net/134223 |
| 22:16.16 | alestane | I'm a teacher, Arrowmaster. |
| 22:16.24 | alestane | Blaspheme not in front of me, thank you. |
| 22:16.59 | ArrowmasterClass | alestane: its a microsoft security class |
| 22:17.12 | Shadowed | ArrowmasterClass: Wait, so they're giving you the answers ahead of time? |
| 22:17.18 | ArrowmasterClass | all the questions by default can not be correctly answered |
| 22:17.21 | Shadowed | or you can access the internet while in class |
| 22:17.29 | ArrowmasterClass | the test is online |
| 22:18.16 | Shadowed | weird |
| 22:18.34 | Shadowed | Find an exploit on the test site itself, maybe you'll get extra credit |
| 22:19.02 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-68-32-134-121.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 22:20.18 | ArrowmasterClass | it uses javascript, too lazy |
| 22:20.49 | alestane | jnwhiteh: I like line 113. |
| 22:23.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Gotaii (~Gotai@ip54546435.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl) |
| 22:27.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Osagasu (~Creek@67-197-1-37.rh1.dyn.cm.comporium.net) |
| 22:32.14 | jnwhiteh | =) |
| 22:38.03 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (~spode@213-21-80-251.bon.t3.se) |
| 22:39.45 | Fisker | anyone know if standard nameplates work on sindragosa? |
| 22:39.47 | Fisker | herro jnwhiteh |
| 22:40.04 | Shadowed | What do you mean by standard nameplates |
| 22:40.13 | Shadowed | if the normal nameplate rules are matched, no reason they wouldn't be shown |
| 22:41.55 | Fisker | Well was thinking in the offchance that my nameplate mod my screw stuff up |
| 22:42.03 | Fisker | But icetombs on sindragosa have no nameplate atleast |
| 22:42.34 | Shadowed | ah, haven't done the fight so not sure on that |
| 22:45.30 | DWSR | Fisker: No, they don't. |
| 22:46.33 | DWSR | BOW BEFORE ME |
| 22:46.37 | DWSR | FOR I AM YOUR GOD |
| 22:46.47 | DWSR | /shirik |
| 22:47.13 | Thunder_Child | s///-/ |
| 22:47.14 | ArrowmasterClass | alestane: damn you, you should have helped me, only got a 69.4% because this damn thing asks about stuff we never went over and wasnt in the book |
| 22:47.25 | DWSR | Thunder_Child: regex fail. |
| 22:47.35 | DWSR | ArrowmasterClass: What's a pass? |
| 22:47.40 | Thunder_Child | DWSR: no, i didnt write anything |
| 22:47.52 | alestane | ArrowmasterClass: That's instructional fail then. |
| 22:47.52 | Thunder_Child | it was for your /shirik thing |
| 22:47.53 | DWSR | Thunder_Child: No, you failed. |
| 22:47.57 | DWSR | You have too many / |
| 22:48.03 | Thunder_Child | no |
| 22:48.09 | Thunder_Child | s/?/?/ |
| 22:48.14 | Thunder_Child | is valid |
| 22:48.21 | DWSR | yes, that's 3 / |
| 22:48.23 | DWSR | You have 4. |
| 22:48.24 | Thunder_Child | i was replacing your / with a - |
| 22:48.26 | ArrowmasterClass | alestane: its a class about 'securing a windows network' it was fail to begin with no matter what |
| 22:48.31 | Fisker | yay i can report it as a bug then DWSR ! |
| 22:48.31 | DWSR | Need to escape it. |
| 22:48.34 | Thunder_Child | and i was not going to do /\ |
| 22:48.46 | Thunder_Child | it wasnt going to change anything you did anyway |
| 22:48.46 | DWSR | I sure hope you weren't going to do /\ |
| 22:48.54 | Thunder_Child | so whats the point |
| 22:48.55 | DWSR | Since that's escape fail. |
| 22:49.16 | DWSR | /troll |
| 22:49.35 | DWSR | Sorry, I couldn't help it. :) I'm in a good mood. Just finished off two big assignments and I have some breathing room this week. |
| 22:49.59 | ArrowmasterClass | well if this grade system is correct, which i have no faith in, i got a 84.39% for the course |
| 22:50.07 | Thunder_Child | sucks out all of DWSR's air |
| 22:50.14 | Arathros | Arrowmaster your location? since you are in class at midnight here ;P |
| 22:50.26 | ArrowmasterClass | east coast usa |
| 22:50.29 | DWSR | Arathros: Probably the US, I would imagine the east coast. |
| 22:50.34 | DWSR | See? |
| 22:50.34 | Arathros | hehe |
| 22:50.34 | DWSR | :P |
| 22:50.39 | Thunder_Child | the fail caost |
| 22:50.41 | Arathros | could be china aswell ;P |
| 22:50.43 | Thunder_Child | caost* |
| 22:50.46 | Thunder_Child | coast* |
| 22:50.49 | Thunder_Child | .... |
| 22:50.52 | ArrowmasterClass | i dont do mornings |
| 22:50.55 | DWSR | Arathros: No it couldn't. |
| 22:51.00 | DWSR | Great Firewall of China blocks freenode. |
| 22:51.06 | ArrowmasterClass | it does? |
| 22:51.12 | ArrowmasterClass | how does digmouse get on then? |
| 22:51.26 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (spode@213.21.89.233) |
| 22:51.31 | DWSR | You're really asking that question? |
| 22:51.37 | Arathros | proxy i recon |
| 22:51.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (~Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 22:52.39 | ArrowmasterClass | well im going home |
| 22:55.13 | Fisker | http://wikileaks.org/file/us-intel-wikileaks.pdf <-i kinda lol'd |
| 23:01.53 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 23:01.53 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 23:06.17 | ScytheBlade1 | http://i.imgur.com/WXyjX.jpg |
| 23:06.21 | ScytheBlade1 | ^ mildly nsfw |
| 23:06.27 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (~airtonix@unaffiliated/airtonix) |
| 23:07.25 | alestane | I know that ruined my appetite. |
| 23:07.47 | Thunder_Child | that seems odd....which part is the gum? |
| 23:07.58 | Thunder_Child | the white? |
| 23:08.24 | Fisker | how is that not safe for work? |
| 23:08.34 | ScytheBlade1 | The "mildly" tag. |
| 23:08.51 | Thunder_Child | not everyone works in a whorehouse like you Fisker |
| 23:09.31 | ScytheBlade1 | I for example, work for a bank. |
| 23:09.44 | ScytheBlade1 | It would qualify as, at a bare minimum, inappropriate :P |
| 23:11.45 | Shadowed | Whore houses have standards too! |
| 23:13.05 | Fisker | why won't you fly on my wings of love Shadowed ? |
| 23:16.18 | *** join/#wowuidev [1]Taroven (HydraIRC@HW-ESR1-208-102-8-69.fuse.net) |
| 23:20.55 | cbreak | hmm... someone complained about hardware cursor support in OpenGL today? |
| 23:21.12 | Adys | perhaps |
| 23:21.41 | cbreak | I don't think the mac os version uses OpenGL for the hardware cursor |
| 23:21.47 | cbreak | just the OS X cursor API |
| 23:22.03 | Adys | it doesnt |
| 23:22.32 | cbreak | because when I use software cursor, the mouse visual is constrained to the window |
| 23:22.40 | cbreak | but when I use hardware cursor, I can move it outside the window |
| 23:22.47 | cbreak | so obviously, not an OpenGL issue |
| 23:23.21 | cbreak | so Blizzard's inability to create a "hardware" cursor on Windows' OpenGL engine is a problem in windows |
| 23:23.27 | cbreak | probably. |
| 23:25.01 | cbreak | I'd make a screenshot, but it seems the cursor isn't on them :/ |
| 23:28.50 | Shadowed | I wish I could block the sun |
| 23:30.10 | cbreak | you can |
| 23:30.14 | Thunder_Child | you can |
| 23:30.20 | Thunder_Child | solid object ftw |
| 23:30.37 | cbreak | non-transparent object to be more exact |
| 23:30.49 | Shadowed | destroy the sun |
| 23:30.52 | Shadowed | would be more appropriate |
| 23:30.52 | cbreak | (assuming you meant blocking sunlight :) |
| 23:31.07 | cbreak | oh, the days of the sun are already numbered |
| 23:31.08 | Shadowed | I was thinking more of less heat |
| 23:31.11 | Thunder_Child | i stand corrected cbreak |
| 23:31.20 | Shadowed | and destroying the sun would do nicely for that |
| 23:31.21 | cbreak | only a few billion years or so more |
| 23:31.28 | Thunder_Child | Shadowed: stop trying to destroy all life to get cool please |
| 23:31.33 | cbreak | super nova would create a temporary heat spike |
| 23:31.40 | Thunder_Child | life on earth* |
| 23:31.41 | Shadowed | look |
| 23:31.54 | Shadowed | If life on earth was good and cool, I wouldn't need to destroy the sun |
| 23:32.02 | cbreak | it is cool |
| 23:32.09 | cbreak | just not where you are |
| 23:32.16 | Shadowed | Only place that matters! |
| 23:32.17 | Shadowed | I should move to Canadian |
| 23:32.22 | Shadowed | s/Canadian/Canada/ |
| 23:32.25 | cbreak | you should move into your freezer |
| 23:32.30 | Shadowed | Don't have one here :( |
| 23:32.35 | cbreak | fridge? |
| 23:32.38 | Shadowed | nope |
| 23:32.56 | cbreak | do you have a bathtub? |
| 23:32.56 | *** part/#wowuidev Movix (~Movix@mail.schiffmann.fr) |
| 23:33.00 | Shadowed | NOPE |
| 23:33.04 | Kraps | why do some of my wow screenshots come out all black? |
| 23:33.04 | cbreak | you could fill it with ice water. |
| 23:33.07 | cbreak | nevermind then |
| 23:33.12 | Shadowed | I would be pretty scared if dorms had a bathroom |
| 23:33.19 | cbreak | Kraps: lens cap forgotten? |
| 23:33.20 | DWSR | FINALLY! |
| 23:33.20 | alestane | So, how does one build early aggro fast as a bear tank? Every pull going through BRD the mage was pulling something off me within five second. |
| 23:33.25 | DWSR | Got Essence of Gossamer to drop |
| 23:33.34 | cbreak | or thumb in front of lense? |
| 23:33.39 | Shadowed | alestane: Are you swiping |
| 23:33.40 | alestane | DWSR: That took my tanks about eight tries each to get. |
| 23:33.45 | alestane | Shadowed: Constantly. |
| 23:33.49 | Arathros | 2½ hour till laundry |
| 23:33.52 | Shadowed | you're screwed :P |
| 23:33.54 | Kraps | cbreak: this is a serious matter! |
| 23:33.58 | amro | alestane: BRD as in blackrock depths? |
| 23:33.59 | Shadowed | Do you have the maul glyph? |
| 23:34.01 | DWSR | alestane: Yeah, I know. =\ |
| 23:34.03 | alestane | Of course, she was doing 60% of the party damage by herself. |
| 23:34.16 | alestane | DWSR: Of course, it dropeed the second time my warlock went through. |
| 23:34.18 | Arathros | alestane mages are tards with aggro |
| 23:34.34 | cbreak | Shadowed: wet clothing might help against heat |
| 23:34.36 | Kraps | i was on top of the 70-79 AB in KBs! |
| 23:34.41 | cbreak | by virtue of phase change coolling |
| 23:34.43 | Shadowed | cbreak: I'd rather destroy the sun personally |
| 23:34.46 | cbreak | Arathros: don't blame us! |
| 23:34.52 | cbreak | we get 40% threat reduction |
| 23:34.54 | cbreak | if that's not enough |
| 23:34.57 | cbreak | ... |
| 23:35.01 | Shadowed | alestane: No matter what, you're kind of screwed. If she was single targeting, you could just taunt the target she's on to keep aggro on yourself before it dies |
| 23:35.02 | cbreak | we have to whine to bliz for more |
| 23:35.06 | amro | AoE is a different question |
| 23:35.11 | Shadowed | if she was AEing, you're basically out of luck |
| 23:35.19 | alestane | Nope,s he's opening up with blizzard as soon as the mobs are on me. |
| 23:35.23 | Arathros | it is.. but 99% of you cant freaking wait 1½ sec till i actually got a threat on all before aoe or nuking like an idiot |
| 23:35.26 | Shadowed | Let her die |
| 23:35.28 | Shadowed | until she learns |
| 23:35.36 | Arathros | i am letting them die ;P |
| 23:35.51 | Shadowed | Short of better gear, or more DPS gear you can't really generate more AE threat beyond spamming maul and swipe |
| 23:36.03 | alestane | I've started target-cycling through Maul while I swipe, but she still pulls off one or two targets I haven't gotten to yet. |
| 23:37.14 | alestane | The damage breakdown was basically: |
| 23:37.15 | alestane | Rogue: 7.7% of group damage; tank (me) 15.7% of group damage; hunter: 17% of group damage; mage 59.7% of group damage. |
| 23:37.24 | amro | alestane: just ask her to slow down |
| 23:37.33 | cbreak | incomming? :) |
| 23:37.41 | DWSR | alestane: imo, get better gear. ;) |
| 23:37.51 | alestane | And if she wasn't casting blizzard, she was running into the middle and spamming ArcX. |
| 23:38.05 | cbreak | that's better |
| 23:38.09 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 23:38.13 | cbreak | at least arcane mages get threat reduction |
| 23:38.15 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: You there? |
| 23:38.25 | cbreak | and don't pull mobs out when they get agro and die when spamming AE |
| 23:38.30 | amro | cbreak: frost mages don't deal any damage, same thing |
| 23:38.40 | alestane | So some of it is probably the few pieces of gear that are left over from old random dungeon rewards but haven't gotten anything better, and someof it is probably that she doesn't know the meaning of the word patience. |
| 23:38.42 | cbreak | oh, frost is better in AoE than arcane |
| 23:38.58 | cbreak | arcane's just a superior single target max burst max dps spec |
| 23:39.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Stew_a (~Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 23:39.19 | cbreak | but in frost spec, I can get blizzard that freezes enemies |
| 23:39.26 | cbreak | + a water elemental pet that fights for me |
| 23:39.32 | cbreak | + 3 or 4 val'kyr pets that fight for me |
| 23:39.37 | cbreak | + 3 clones that fight for me |
| 23:39.42 | ZorbaTHut | dwsr, for like twenty seconds |
| 23:39.43 | cbreak | all quite nice when aoeing |
| 23:39.44 | ZorbaTHut | TYPE FAST |
| 23:39.58 | alestane | Okay, the only pieces I REALLY need to replace are my belt and my cloak. |
| 23:40.57 | ZorbaTHut | too late, cya later, type your question when asking if I'm around next time ;) |
| 23:42.14 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Black Icicle vs. Burnished Quel'Serrar? |
| 23:42.18 | alestane | Or try botmail, DWSR. |
| 23:45.48 | *** join/#wowuidev TC-Away (~Thunder_C@WoWUIDev/PITA/TC) |
| 23:48.14 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (spode@213-21-77-27.bon.t3.se) |
| 23:48.23 | WobWork | http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/1003/AuroraTrails_takasaka.jpg |
| 23:48.25 | WobWork | shiiiiny |
| 23:50.08 | WobWork | Cairenn|afk: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2010/03/14taco.JPG |
| 23:55.00 | NeoTron | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:55.04 | NeoTron | *shiver* |
| 23:56.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Sargeras (~Sargeras@cpe-72-129-100-195.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 23:56.57 | jnwhiteh | Anyone here familiar with electronics and batteries? |
| 23:57.06 | cbreak | yes. |
| 23:57.10 | cbreak | Shirik is |
| 23:57.13 | cbreak | :) |
| 23:57.17 | jnwhiteh | If I charge my phone via USB, I understand that it's getting less current and thus is going to take longer to charge compared to an AC wall charger. |
| 23:57.17 | Shirik | he lies |
| 23:57.49 | cbreak | that depends. There are strong limits on current consumption in the USB spec |
| 23:57.52 | jnwhiteh | My experience, however, is that the actual battery life of the phone varies drastically between the two methods and I am having issues understanding how/why this could be. |
| 23:57.53 | TC-Away | why would it get less? wall ones damp the current anyway |
| 23:58.04 | cbreak | but they can deliver more if they want to |
| 23:58.09 | Corrodias | if they output 5v, then they output 5v. |
| 23:58.20 | Corrodias | the current is determined by the potential and resistance. |
| 23:58.22 | jnwhiteh | the phone _definitely_ charges faster on wall versus USB, I can accept tihs |
| 23:58.23 | jnwhiteh | that's fast |
| 23:58.25 | jnwhiteh | fact |
| 23:58.40 | Shirik | jnwhiteh, it may simply be the charge quality. The problem with batteries is that they rarely are a single cell, and your battery's life is essentially dependent upon how balanced those cells remain |
| 23:58.41 | Corrodias | it may accept more than 5v input, then |
| 23:59.03 | jnwhiteh | Shirik: that makes a bit more sense.. just its very shocking to me. |
| 23:59.11 | jnwhiteh | 9 hours versus 22+ |
| 23:59.41 | Shirik | USB does have some limits on current. For all intents and purposes, your wall outlet does not :) |
| 23:59.43 | cbreak | which one gives you more duration? slow or fast charging? |
| 23:59.55 | jnwhiteh | cbreak: fast |
