| 00:03.11 | *** join/#wowuidev syrae (~syrae@pool-71-123-165-10.dllstx.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 00:04.03 | *** mode/#wowuidev [-b *!*@67.196.136.190] by Shirik |
| 00:04.16 | *** part/#wowuidev syrae (~syrae@pool-71-123-165-10.dllstx.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 00:05.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Balreign (~Balreign@ANantes-552-1-60-200.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 00:06.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Ancu (~c@67.143.148.243) |
| 00:12.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (brb@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 00:13.12 | Dagmar | I can deal with the Skadi change tho because half the time we miss the speed kill thing because not enough damn spears have dropped yet |
| 00:14.27 | Jerub | i hate UK |
| 00:14.31 | Jerub | so i'm all for the nerfs. |
| 00:14.44 | Jerub | and i refuse to do the optional bosses in OK because they suck. |
| 00:14.49 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR (~c04b8bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-aodsflwpfvihaomi) |
| 00:15.03 | kd3 | the trick is-cheese the skadi encounter. just farm spears until you get a good 8-10 or so, then run back to the last room to reset |
| 00:15.05 | DWSR | Kaelten: |
| 00:15.14 | Dagmar | Nah dude |
| 00:15.17 | kd3 | once everything despawns, run directly to the end and wait for the repop |
| 00:15.17 | DWSR | kd3: lulz. |
| 00:15.22 | DWSR | They nerfed it to only 3 spears to bring him down. |
| 00:15.42 | Dagmar | It's always fun to give the cleansers crap because the tank just got What The Eck because a certain someone didn't notice and do anything about hte debuff |
| 00:15.48 | DWSR | It's super easy, even without cheesing it, to get both the speed kill and bringing him off his drake in one pass. |
| 00:15.49 | Jerub | in fact, i'm starting to hate the random heroic thing. |
| 00:16.07 | Dagmar | kd3: See it shouldn't be necessary to do that for an achievement. Feels too exploity |
| 00:16.13 | DWSR | Dagmar: It's not. |
| 00:16.22 | Jerub | Dagmar: the eck debuff doesn't adversely affect you does it? |
| 00:16.40 | DWSR | You can, and have been able to for some time, do both achievements at the same time without glitching the encounter. |
| 00:16.45 | Jerub | DWSR: it's not super easy if you can't get 5 harpooners on the first pass |
| 00:16.45 | Dagmar | I can't count the number of times tho we've just run straight to the back, killed everyone in a bunch all at once (definitely speed kill) and watched the timer run out while we're waiting on someone to bring a fifth spear out |
| 00:16.52 | DWSR | glitching the encounter makes is accessable to significantly lower gear levels. |
| 00:17.07 | DWSR | Jerub: It's 3 now. |
| 00:17.11 | Jerub | i need the zombie one, watch him die, and the occy ones. |
| 00:17.14 | Dagmar | Whether or not you "can" in four or five attempts is a moot point |
| 00:17.18 | Jerub | i think that's all the hard ones to do that i'm missing |
| 00:17.28 | DWSR | Jerub: Watch Him Die is the hardest out of those. |
| 00:17.37 | DWSR | Zombie one just requires you to run with a few people. |
| 00:17.41 | Dagmar | That it's frequently not possible no matter what gear you've got or your skill level, without deliberately exploiting game mechanics that makes it a problem |
| 00:18.10 | DWSR | Clear Arthas all the way to the (2nd) gauntlet event, then pull every zombie from the gate to to you and kill them all at once. |
| 00:18.24 | DWSR | Dagmar: The achievements require co-ordination. |
| 00:18.31 | DWSR | Dagmar: You're not going to get that in a random heroic. |
| 00:18.39 | DWSR | People seem to think that LFD will give them a Drake. |
| 00:18.49 | Fisker | hey |
| 00:18.54 | DWSR | Run with your guild for achievements. If you happen to get a few with random pugs, hurray for you. |
| 00:18.58 | Dagmar | Let me repeat that again |
| 00:19.00 | kd3 | I've not once missed getting the drake run in CoS |
| 00:19.03 | kd3 | since LFD |
| 00:19.03 | Fisker | i have "Nigro" in my name, what can possibly be wrong with that? |
| 00:19.03 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 00:19.07 | Jerub | DWSR: zombie run is much easier if you have two tanks, and you attack zombies back before the building you run through as well as the gauntlet. |
| 00:19.20 | DWSR | Jerub: Or...you just use 1 tank. |
| 00:19.26 | DWSR | And pull all the ones before the house to you |
| 00:19.28 | Jerub | DWSR: last time i attempted it was when i was a new 80 and we missed it by 1 zombie. |
| 00:19.30 | DWSR | Then start pulling the gauntlet shit. |
| 00:19.39 | Dagmar | The acievement was problematic because it didn't matter how good, or how well geared you were, or whether or you're actually five conjoined twins all working in the same room |
| 00:20.02 | Dagmar | You could and would watch that timer for the speed kill elapse without the server ever having given you enough spears to bring Skadi into range |
| 00:20.06 | Jerub | I got less-rabi in a pug |
| 00:20.10 | Jerub | with zero communication. |
| 00:20.13 | DWSR | Dagmar: That's bullshit. =\ |
| 00:20.17 | DWSR | Jerub: Luck. |
| 00:20.21 | Jerub | we just pulled the boss and executed every stun properly. |
| 00:20.26 | Dagmar | dwsr: This is why I've no problem with that being changed to three spears |
| 00:20.45 | DWSR | Dagmar: I enjoy all of the changes making all of these instances significantly shorter/easier. |
| 00:20.47 | Dagmar | We generally just zerg it to the end of the hall and AOE the lot down when we do it |
| 00:20.59 | DWSR | Like bosses going invuln a lot less. |
| 00:21.01 | DWSR | anyway, bbl. |
| 00:21.09 | Dagmar | Many times I've watched that timer run out because we've only gotten for spears |
| 00:21.15 | Dagmar | s/for/four/; |
| 00:21.37 | Jerub | i think the wizards at wow hq on top of their pile of money have been watching logs and seeing that while geared groups can get down any tank+spank boss in <30 seconds, the ones with stupid mechanics take 2-3 minutes because the mechanics make the boss invulnerable and everyone has boring deadtime. |
| 00:21.51 | Dagmar | Very possible |
| 00:21.51 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 00:22.08 | Jerub | tbh, one of my favourite boss fights because it requires a reasonable amount of awareness but isn't annoying is the first boss of UK with the frost tombs. |
| 00:22.42 | Dagmar | What frost tombs? |
| 00:22.49 | Dagmar | Solution: MOAR DPS |
| 00:23.10 | Jerub | Dagmar: well, yeah. |
| 00:23.40 | Dagmar | We now kill him and his four adds, and his skeletons, all at once |
| 00:24.09 | Dagmar | ...otherwise there's like, zero chance anyone's going to die |
| 00:24.22 | Jerub | Dagmar: it means that a geared group can either do it the right way or the wrong way and smash it in record time either way, swapping to frost tombs if you care, and it doesn't make the fucker invulnerable for a minute while a spinning sword decends to a platform |
| 00:24.38 | Dagmar | Hahah |
| 00:24.40 | Jerub | or god forbid, poorly written plot. |
| 00:24.54 | Dagmar | But I *like* being able to finish Svala off |
| 00:25.03 | Dagmar | I kill her in the air on a regular basis. |
| 00:25.12 | Jerub | the thing I want fixed is that goddamn stupid plot segement at the beginning of saurfang. |
| 00:25.13 | Dagmar | I generally yell PULL when she goes up in the air |
| 00:25.17 | Jerub | it just doesn't make cohernat sense! |
| 00:25.40 | Jerub | "I promised my dead wife that I wouldn't let something happen that happened and now i'm going to kill my son because i'm a fucktard and that's going to forfill my already broken promise" |
| 00:25.48 | Dagmar | Yes, but it gives people who are skilling ToGC25 a chance to offer up a prayer |
| 00:25.55 | Dagmar | er s/skilling/skipping/; |
| 00:25.57 | WobWork | I generally go pick up the spare abom in the next corridor when Svala is all chatty with Arthas |
| 00:26.21 | Jerub | "to not let anything happen to my goddamn son that i'm just about to kill clearly /breaking/ this promise and /grinding it into little bits with my bootheel" |
| 00:26.48 | Jerub | *rant* |
| 00:27.01 | Dagmar | We're too busy praying to notice |
| 00:27.31 | Jerub | icc10 saurfang is an easy fight. |
| 00:27.41 | Dagmar | Not if you skipped ToGC |
| 00:27.45 | Jerub | icc25 is a little more messy, but it's doable. |
| 00:27.52 | Jerub | I've gotten a single boss down in togc. |
| 00:28.14 | Dagmar | We killed him with basically welfare gear, but it was close |
| 00:28.33 | Jerub | I've done icc10 with a pug that'd never seen it before and got "You've gone and made a mess" |
| 00:28.40 | Jerub | (which, imho, is the only way to do that fight) |
| 00:28.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 00:29.13 | Jerub | can't do that fight without getting that achievement without being massively overgeared. |
| 00:29.25 | Dagmar | Pretty much |
| 00:29.29 | Kraps | http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/3979/page/1 |
| 00:29.54 | Dagmar | By the time that third mark drops, the boss better be about to die because you're losing that third person |
| 00:30.18 | Ancu | season 8 has begun |
| 00:30.40 | Jerub | we used the tactic of just letting the marks die. |
| 00:30.59 | Jerub | provided it's not a healer or kiter it's fine to just let them lie down and rest for a while. |
| 00:31.13 | Dagmar | That pushes you closer to the timer tho |
| 00:31.30 | Dagmar | Easier to just kite the worms |
| 00:31.41 | Jerub | of course. |
| 00:31.48 | Jerub | we had him on 20% health when the first mark hit. |
| 00:31.58 | Jerub | saurfang is a real huntard fight |
| 00:32.08 | Dagmar | Yep |
| 00:32.14 | Dagmar | Distracting Shot for the win |
| 00:32.27 | Dagmar | Just kinda a bitch when say, the worm dies as you clikc that |
| 00:32.51 | Dagmar | ...so the game says "Ah, you need a new target. Let's just cast that on Saurfang, shall we?" |
| 00:33.04 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR (~c04b8bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-hbtvzrhipwzbofae) |
| 00:33.18 | DWSR | wow. |
| 00:33.31 | Dagmar | I don't think I've ever hit Feign Death quite that fast before |
| 00:33.33 | DWSR | XML AH access? Gay. |
| 00:33.53 | DWSR | Way to ruin the economy Blizzard |
| 00:34.13 | Dagmar | dwsr: Yep. Bots bots bots, and more bots |
| 00:34.19 | Jerub | XML AH access? FOR THE FUCKING WIN. |
| 00:34.21 | DWSR | Exactly. |
| 00:34.30 | DWSR | No Jerub |
| 00:34.33 | DWSR | ftl. |
| 00:34.39 | Dagmar | Jerub: That pretty much means the AH will no longer be useful to casual players |
| 00:34.50 | Dagmar | You *will* get fleeced by anyone and everyone who bots the AH |
| 00:34.54 | Jerub | Dagmar: the only thing that good market data will do is rationalise prices. |
| 00:34.54 | DWSR | ^^ this |
| 00:35.04 | Jerub | because bots will undermine other bots. |
| 00:35.07 | DWSR | LOL |
| 00:35.17 | Dagmar | Jerub: Excepting that now the "professional" players will just bot the hell out of everything |
| 00:35.28 | DWSR | Jerub, bots take away the time investment. |
| 00:35.38 | Jerub | wait, do you mean ah bots? or farming bots? |
| 00:35.45 | Dagmar | Ah bots. |
| 00:35.50 | DWSR | AH bots |
| 00:35.51 | Jerub | what time investment? |
| 00:36.03 | DWSR | Managing your auctions. |
| 00:36.06 | Dagmar | AH bots watching the AH and snatching anything that goes below a certain margin, in realtime, _all the time_ |
| 00:36.17 | DWSR | Scanning the ah for prices, etc. etc. |
| 00:36.22 | Jerub | yep. awesome. means quick sales go quicker. |
| 00:36.24 | DWSR | Right. |
| 00:36.38 | DWSR | No, it means profit margins drop |
| 00:36.44 | Dagmar | It means anyone with a bot will have essentially priviledged access to the markets |
| 00:36.44 | Jerub | then, when they go to sell it, it will be sold at a consistent price, which can be constantly undermined by real players. |
| 00:36.47 | DWSR | like a stone. |
| 00:36.59 | DWSR | and you get economies of scale. |
| 00:36.59 | Dagmar | ~DWSR++ |
| 00:37.06 | Jerub | sure, profit margins for the botters drop, but for casual players the market moves faster, meaning the time investment and risk decreases. |
| 00:37.09 | Dagmar | It'll be a disaster |
| 00:37.15 | Jerub | biggest risk when using the AH is something not selling. |
| 00:37.26 | Dagmar | No, botter profits will drop, casual player profits will disappear entirely |
| 00:37.37 | DWSR | Jerub, I've never had this problem. |
| 00:38.05 | DWSR | Assuming you're posting something reasonably valuable. |
| 00:38.37 | Jerub | Dagmar: the profit of a casual player has nothing to do with buy/sell prices, it has to do with random crap in their inventory they want to liquidate. the basic timesink, money fountain. |
| 00:38.43 | Dagmar | With the majority of gamers having no incentive to use the AH because it'll be a waste of money, volumes will drop, and economies will default to "sick" |
| 00:38.47 | DWSR | it's going to ruin the wow economy worse than EVE |
| 00:38.53 | Jerub | like random gems they get from a bag of gems. |
| 00:39.07 | Jerub | i entirely disagree. |
| 00:39.13 | Dagmar | You can do that all you like. |
| 00:39.20 | DWSR | Jerub, everyone I know holda onto them for when they get new gear. |
| 00:39.29 | Dagmar | It's not the random crap that they're expecting profits on |
| 00:39.30 | DWSR | Random greena gget DEed. |
| 00:39.44 | Dagmar | It's the stuff they make with tradeskills |
| 00:39.47 | DWSR | greens* |
| 00:39.57 | Dagmar | They will now rather permanently be undersold by botters |
| 00:39.58 | DWSR | ~dagmar++ |
| 00:40.00 | Jerub | tradeskill stuff sells really poorly on my realm. |
| 00:40.12 | Dagmar | I bought a motorcycle with mine |
| 00:40.13 | DWSR | your realm's an outlier. |
| 00:40.18 | Dagmar | Just doing 2-3 pieces a day |
| 00:40.39 | Dagmar | Took about a month and a half, and I didn't have to spend hours a day at it either. |
| 00:40.44 | Dagmar | That space will evaporate. |
| 00:41.19 | Jerub | it sounds like you're upset because you've got a market niche that others will be able to inhabit. |
| 00:41.28 | Dagmar | There's no way you'll be able to compete with someon who has a bot just watching the AH all the time |
| 00:41.34 | Jerub | large profits on buying/converting/selling on the AH will go, sure. |
| 00:41.43 | Dagmar | Don't waste you time trying to attack my motive, Jerub. |
| 00:41.48 | Jerub | but it won't make the economies sick. |
| 00:41.54 | Dagmar | I laugh at your silly fallacy |
| 00:42.14 | Dagmar | I'm quite sure that after they do this, what I predict *will* be the case. |
| 00:42.56 | Jerub | Dagmar: my prediction is a faster moving market with smaller fluctuations and lower profits to be made by selling goods you didn't farm/create yourself. |
| 00:42.58 | DWSR | Not to mention, this enables gold sellers like never before. |
| 00:43.14 | Dagmar | Jerub: No. Zero profits for most people. |
| 00:43.17 | Jerub | but not the death of the economy. |
| 00:43.17 | Dagmar | _Zero_. |
| 00:43.38 | DWSR | Jerub, it's going to become all about scale. |
| 00:43.38 | Jerub | Dagmar: How will farming saronite and then selling it on the AH to a bot reduce my profits to zero? |
| 00:43.49 | Dagmar | Most of the reason I could undercut other crafters was that I had a lot of capital tied up in buyin stuff when it was at it's absolute _lowest_ price |
| 00:43.54 | Jerub | that's demonstratably non-zero. |
| 00:43.58 | Dagmar | That was my minimumm bid price. Cost. |
| 00:44.06 | Jerub | even vendoring it because the price crashed would be nonzero. |
| 00:44.12 | Jerub | so i reject your assertion as laughable. |
| 00:44.26 | Dagmar | People who don't know when to look for those lowest points in the supply will NOT be able to compete with someone who has a bot watching the AH 24/7. |
| 00:44.32 | Dagmar | Your talk is nonsense compared to that. |
| 00:44.46 | DWSR | Jerub, do you knows what the profit margin on, say a grocery atore is? |
| 00:45.21 | Dagmar | Vendoring the stuff you craft is f**king STUPID. |
| 00:45.21 | Jerub | you're both talking about using the AH as both the source and the sink. yes, profits on that will decrease, perhaps to zero, sure. |
| 00:45.25 | DWSR | Not to mention, the bot IS WATCHING 24/7, and can probably buy them ASAP, being instantly. |
| 00:45.42 | Dagmar | No, profits _will_ decrease to zero for anyone not running a bot. |
| 00:45.45 | Dagmar | Period. |
| 00:46.01 | DWSR | perhaps not 0, but negligible. |
| 00:46.05 | Dagmar | You still have yet to explain how it is that people are going to be able to sell competitively without farming all their materials themselves. |
| 00:46.13 | Dagmar | You have no answer for this, and we both know it. |
| 00:46.24 | Jerub | Dagmar: demonstratably false, see above, you're not acknowledging that people can farm things in the world and sell them to the AH. |
| 00:46.32 | Jerub | which nets non-zero profits. |
| 00:46.33 | DWSR | ...he juat did. |
| 00:46.38 | DWSR | just* |
| 00:46.47 | Dagmar | I just did, thicko. |
| 00:46.51 | WobWork | I want to see WoW Street |
| 00:46.52 | Dagmar | That is boring as hell. |
| 00:46.54 | WobWork | like Wall Street |
| 00:46.55 | DWSR | Jerub, even that will have considerable crashing. |
| 00:46.56 | Jerub | i mean specifically selling without crafting. |
| 00:47.24 | Jerub | conversion of wow time spent into money by selling on the AH. |
| 00:47.31 | Dagmar | The only thing that makes it tolerable is that a lot of people's _combined_ 2-3 minutes it took to remember to dump their spare mats in the AH add up to one crafted item. |
| 00:47.37 | DWSR | the problem is that botters will be able to sell/buy with a much better reaction speed. |
| 00:47.46 | DWSR | and are watching 24/7. |
| 00:47.46 | Dagmar | Expecting people to farm for a profit reduces EVERYONE to the price floor of the AFK botter. |
| 00:47.53 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 00:48.05 | Dagmar | Maybe you should go learn something about economics. |
| 00:48.36 | DWSR | What's worse is that it's a premium service. |
| 00:48.40 | Jerub | i think we'll see what happens in the coming months :) |
| 00:48.53 | Dagmar | I think I might well be taking a siesta from the game if this turns out the way I think it's going to. |
| 00:48.59 | DWSR | You hav to buy the service. |
| 00:49.06 | Dagmar | I'm not intested in dealing with 25-man trailer trash, and that's the way things are heading |
| 00:49.28 | Dagmar | If I can't even craft without basically burning money, f**k it |
| 00:49.46 | DWSR | what's the point of raider professions? |
| 00:50.06 | Dagmar | DWSR: Mainly to lord it over everyone who isn't a member of the Noob Squad |
| 00:50.29 | DWSR | at that point, I'll lose out on the ~150sp from tailoring/enchanting and have herb/mining |
| 00:50.43 | DWSR | Dagmar: , I meant in that situation. |
| 00:50.53 | DWSR | Sorry, typing on an OSK. |
| 00:51.32 | DWSR | which doesn't support multi touch, even though the surface does /sigh. |
| 00:52.39 | DWSR | at that point, crafting becomes useless. |
| 00:53.08 | DWSR | and then you can't get crafted epics, some of which have been/are VERY good, almost BiS. |
| 00:53.34 | DWSR | Which is just bad, all theway around. |
| 00:53.51 | DWSR | fucking spacebar. |
| 00:56.27 | Duman | hmm |
| 00:57.14 | Jerub | wasn't the whole idea of bots ruining the economy that the price of mats would decrease because the bots would be out-crafting you? can't you just buy the epic from the bot? |
| 00:57.48 | Jerub | or, buy the mats and sell for massive profits becasue no raiders have crafting professions anymore? |
| 00:59.33 | WobWork | Jerub: no, cause the farming bots will keep the mat cost down |
| 00:59.47 | WobWork | there's still the gold bots =P |
| 01:00.51 | Jerub | oh, okay, then just buy the mats with gold and craft for massive profits. |
| 01:00.59 | Jerub | doesn't see ruination. |
| 01:01.12 | WobWork | aside from the crafting bots? |
| 01:01.20 | WobWork | the point is |
| 01:01.30 | WobWork | that the framework for the bots ruining the system was always there |
| 01:01.40 | WobWork | the limitation was that it needed someone logged in to check the AH |
| 01:01.56 | Dagmar | There will be no profits in crafting for anyone who doesn't have a rare recipe that others can't get, or who don't run bots to get the materials at the lowest prices. |
| 01:02.17 | Dagmar | It does require them be there nad logged in, but they have to *sleep* sometime |
| 01:02.37 | Dagmar | They can't just go at it 24/7, and they couldn't do it while they're raiding or doing something else |
| 01:02.46 | Dagmar | You can't AFK it |
| 01:03.48 | Dagmar | Making that available through the web completely breaks it because it'll allow unlimited botting |
| 01:03.55 | Jerub | okay, so as a crafting raider, you've got a niche that will net you cash. |
| 01:04.04 | Dagmar | That will be the only niche. |
| 01:04.09 | WobWork | and only crafting raiders can |
| 01:04.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraft (~kraft@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust25.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 01:04.13 | Dagmar | And I am not a "raider". |
| 01:04.15 | WobWork | everyone else is screwed =P |
| 01:04.25 | Dagmar | Many, many people playing are not raiders. |
| 01:04.30 | WobWork | 80% |
| 01:04.53 | WobWork | (that's a fairly pessimistic statistic, btw) |
| 01:05.07 | ZorbaTHut | oh fuck yes armory xml access |
| 01:05.13 | Dagmar | Either way, the only people likely to like it will be goldfarmers |
| 01:05.18 | ZorbaTHut | I cannot believe they're actually going to allow people to bid on AH items from out-of-game but that would be amazing |
| 01:05.20 | WobWork | ZorbaTHut: didn't we already have that? |
| 01:05.25 | ZorbaTHut | er, AH xml access |
| 01:05.27 | Dagmar | It'll make it easy for them to leech markets completely dry through non-stop automation |
| 01:05.33 | ZorbaTHut | sorry too excited to string thoughts together in a coherent fashion |
| 01:05.55 | WobWork | it'll make cornering a market a simple case of pressing a single button =P |
| 01:06.23 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, seriously, I don't see a problem with that. if you're smart, people trying to corner a market are basically money factories |
| 01:06.32 | Dagmar | Unless they have more money than ou |
| 01:06.42 | Dagmar | In which case you're screwed. |
| 01:06.46 | ZorbaTHut | no, you make money off them |
| 01:06.50 | Dagmar | How? |
| 01:06.58 | Dagmar | Running around farming materials so you can undercut them? |
| 01:06.58 | ZorbaTHut | they try to corner (some_product) at 2x its normal price, you start selling it for 1.9x its normal price |
| 01:07.09 | WobWork | and then they undercut you |
| 01:07.13 | Dagmar | Then they just lower their limit to 1.8x |
| 01:07.13 | WobWork | to cost price |
| 01:07.19 | WobWork | or vendor price |
| 01:07.29 | WobWork | or fractionally above |
| 01:07.29 | ZorbaTHut | that's okay, for most things the AH fees are inconsequential |
| 01:07.34 | ZorbaTHut | I either go to 1.7x or I go to 1x |
| 01:07.43 | WobWork | where's the profit in 1x? |
| 01:07.44 | Dagmar | If you think people aren't douchebags enough to do that, look at what was going on with the Ashen ammo |
| 01:07.45 | ZorbaTHut | if I go to 1x and they undercut me, they lose money and I don't. |
| 01:07.52 | ZorbaTHut | 1x normal price, not 1x cost of materials |
| 01:08.03 | WobWork | they're not losing money =P |
| 01:08.03 | Dagmar | Some people were selling the things at cost for weeks, just to hurt anyone who came along later and dared enter their market |
| 01:08.17 | WobWork | or if so, it's a temporary loss |
| 01:08.20 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: Yes, then you make no money either |
| 01:08.22 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, *shrug* fine by me. just leave one item up on the AH at a sane price |
| 01:08.27 | WobWork | the whole point of cornering a market is you -control- it |
| 01:08.27 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, yeah, that's what happens with a free market |
| 01:08.36 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: Then they buy it and the cycle begins anew |
| 01:08.37 | ZorbaTHut | things get crunched down to the point of dubious profits |
| 01:08.44 | ZorbaTHut | then I put more items up on the AH at sane prices |
| 01:08.48 | WobWork | and the farmers can afford to keep it up |
| 01:08.54 | WobWork | which you will never get sold |
| 01:09.00 | WobWork | because you're above their median price |
| 01:09.00 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: This will nuke any chance anyone not botting has for buying materials from the AH to craft into something fo a profit |
| 01:09.21 | Dagmar | I say this knowing full well that *I* could do it |
| 01:09.27 | Dagmar | Except I have a job that is a bit more meaningful |
| 01:09.31 | WobWork | The only thing limiting this level of aggressive control so far |
| 01:09.39 | WobWork | has been that you have to be online to check and bid |
| 01:09.40 | ZorbaTHut | I disagree strongly, I think it'll just result in some people trying to corner a market and failing while others keep posting large amounts of mats |
| 01:09.55 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: Where do they get these "large amounts of mats" from then? |
| 01:10.09 | ZorbaTHut | picking up nodes while leveling or questing, same place most mats already came from |
| 01:10.12 | Dagmar | Unless they're, again, botting their materials harvesting, they don't have these "large amounts of mats" |
| 01:10.21 | Dagmar | They only have small amounts of mats. |
| 01:10.30 | ZorbaTHut | people don't bother farming mats and haven't for a long time, it's the accumulated amount that adds up surprisingly quickly |
| 01:10.41 | Dagmar | Yes, that's just it |
| 01:10.46 | ZorbaTHut | alternatively, if saronite bars (for example) really end up selling for 4g, then suddenly they'll be profitable to farm again |
| 01:10.47 | ZorbaTHut | and people will do so |
| 01:11.03 | Dagmar | All those small piles of mats people put in the AH will go to the people scraping the auction house twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week |
| 01:11.13 | ZorbaTHut | sure, and what will those people do with them? |
| 01:11.23 | Dagmar | It won't be crafting with them. |
| 01:11.30 | ZorbaTHut | what will it be? |
| 01:11.31 | ZorbaTHut | vendoring? |
| 01:11.33 | ZorbaTHut | throwing away? |
| 01:11.33 | Dagmar | Crafting will pretty much be reduced to the same crap it was in EverQuest |
| 01:11.34 | WobWork | sell them =P |
| 01:11.38 | Dagmar | A goddamn money sink |
| 01:11.48 | WobWork | at -their- controlled price |
| 01:11.51 | ZorbaTHut | tossing in the guild bank until you have four hundred stacks of saronite bars cluttering up the place? |
| 01:11.59 | Dagmar | That doesn't work |
| 01:12.02 | ZorbaTHut | wob, awesome, so I start selling mine slightly below their price because I'm not an idiot |
| 01:12.14 | ZorbaTHut | now what do they do? |
| 01:12.14 | Dagmar | We've got four tabs and there's definitely stil lnot enough space to stash large quantities of much of anything |
| 01:12.17 | WobWork | You don't have to be an idiot |
| 01:12.26 | WobWork | you just have to have enough gold buffer to control the market |
| 01:12.59 | ZorbaTHut | except I don't believe that actually works. it works for rare stuff that's not farmable, like BoE epics. it works for stuff that's going for cheap enough that people won't bother farming it anyway. |
| 01:13.19 | ZorbaTHut | it *doesn't* work when you take things that are cheap and try to sell them with a huge enough profit that suddenly they'd be worth farming, because, shockingly, people start farming them. |
| 01:13.39 | Dagmar | What's that got to do with this? |
| 01:13.52 | Nechckn | Start your won cartel and farmbot/AH scrape... WoW gold war with the Chinese! Wonder if they'd cancel the premier's visit to Washington oveer that? |
| 01:14.06 | Dagmar | In what possible way does it impact the fact that the people running bots to buy out the materials at the cheapest price will *always* be able to undercut the people who don't |
| 01:14.38 | WobWork | Dagmar: in essence it means that you will never make a real profit controlling a market from in game |
| 01:14.51 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, again, what are they doing with those materials? you're claiming that people will buy all those materials and then not craft with them |
| 01:14.51 | Dagmar | It also means you won't make any real profit attempting to work a tradeskill |
| 01:14.57 | ZorbaTHut | what "undercutting" are you imagining taking place here? |
| 01:15.03 | WobWork | You can make a 'profit' from farming, because the mats are fairly much zerocost |
| 01:15.04 | Dagmar | You're rather likely to just start losing money hand over fist |
| 01:15.06 | ZorbaTHut | (also, in any situation where stuff regularly vanishes from the AH due to a lack of supply - like most gathered materials - this is arguably a much, much better system, since you will maybe be able to actually buy rare mats) |
| 01:15.08 | WobWork | ignoring time spent |
| 01:15.26 | Dagmar | WobWork: Time spent farming is a cost to anyone not running Glider |
| 01:15.42 | Dagmar | ...and it's fucking boring. |
| 01:15.43 | Nechckn | Or a few racks of Glidered bots |
| 01:16.21 | Dagmar | The main thing XML access to the AH will mean is competition from newcomers to the goldfarming game |
| 01:16.37 | Dagmar | I'd rather not see the player base in general become crushed in the middle of that |
| 01:16.44 | Nechckn | btw... where does it say xml access? |
| 01:16.51 | Nechckn | must have missed that one |
| 01:17.08 | Dagmar | People have been saying it, and whether it's XML or simply scraping the data is fairly irrelevant |
| 01:17.17 | Dagmar | Any idjit can probably figure out HTML::Mechanize |
| 01:17.33 | Nechckn | Plus, they indicated that it will be some "premium" access, so it could well cost $ to access and bid/buy. |
| 01:18.07 | Nechckn | maybe enter your keyfob number with each purchase... that would be awesome! |
| 01:20.09 | Dagmar | Assuming theres no software wuthenticator to download for dree |
| 01:20.10 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: one of these days, I'll have a real answer |
| 01:20.12 | Dagmar | ...and run in an emulator |
| 01:20.14 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: alas, it is but a dream |
| 01:20.45 | ZorbaTHut | nech, ugh, I'd end up buying a non-authenticated account just for that |
| 01:20.59 | Nechckn | But.. if it is required? |
| 01:21.28 | Nechckn | Since everything is just SWAG, at this point, just tossing that in there. |
| 01:21.32 | ZorbaTHut | I don't see them making it required for *every purchase*, because it'd suck for people doing bulk purchases |
| 01:21.44 | Dagmar | Isn't that the _point_? |
| 01:21.48 | ZorbaTHut | but yeah, if it's "enter it every 5 minutes" or something irritating, I'd just do passes every four hours or something |
| 01:21.57 | Dagmar | Like, you can't one-click buy 1,000 borean leather right now |
| 01:22.15 | ZorbaTHut | comedy answer: li'l lego mindworks system with a button and an OCR system, authenticator mounted in the middle |
| 01:22.30 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, yeah I can, I can ctrl-alt-rightclick spam the window :P |
| 01:22.35 | ZorbaTHut | it takes under a second per stack |
| 01:22.38 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: Not even needed. One emulator with a screengrab utility and OCR |
| 01:22.45 | ScytheBlade1 | ugh |
| 01:22.45 | ScytheBlade1 | http://www.abc26.com/news/local/wgno-news-buddydsbet-story,0,7443900.story |
| 01:22.53 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: You still have to be there to click it |
| 01:22.54 | ZorbaTHut | well, I've got the hardware authenticator myself |
| 01:23.15 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, true, but I'm saying that requiring another authenticator code for *every single stack* would be ridiculous |
| 01:23.17 | ZorbaTHut | and they would never do that |
| 01:23.32 | Dagmar | Yeah that would be overkill |
| 01:23.34 | ZorbaTHut | for one thing the authenticator doesn't even give a new code more than once per minute :P |
| 01:23.35 | Nechckn | You could have one of the drinking birds... their beak could press the button, then your camera could OCR the sceen. |
| 01:23.38 | Dagmar | ...but it might be necessary |
| 01:23.42 | Nechckn | likes that better than legos |
| 01:24.02 | ZorbaTHut | "What's the code?" "112384" "okay now what's the code" ". . . 112384?" "great now what's the code" "well it's 112384" "okay I'm gonna keep asking this" ". . . alright then" |
| 01:24.18 | ZorbaTHut | nech, as entertaining as the idea is, I doubt it would have enough force |
| 01:24.19 | Dagmar | If people want solid data on the AH sure, let 'em have dumps of it, but not in realtime |
| 01:24.45 | Dagmar | 24-hours delayed would be perfectly useable for computing trend info, without allowing people to snatch the lowest priced materials 24/7 |
| 01:24.51 | tem | wtf is this bigwigs tips shit? |
| 01:25.02 | ZorbaTHut | well, the question is really whether or not the XML system will allow bidding/buying or not |
| 01:25.10 | ZorbaTHut | if it doesn't, it honestly doesn't matter whether it's realtime or not |
| 01:25.13 | tem | I am not a fan |
| 01:25.15 | Dagmar | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:25.22 | ZorbaTHut | it's no more efficient than just scanning the AH every fifteen seconds or so |
| 01:25.24 | kd3 | I sure as hell hope not |
| 01:25.34 | ZorbaTHut | if it does, then you kind of *need* up-to-date data in order to, you know, bid on things. |
| 01:25.36 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: Not very hard for a search hit to tell you to login and go buy something |
| 01:26.02 | Nechckn | Is the armory even current, though/ |
| 01:26.03 | Dagmar | Again, the whole "you need to be logged in" thing raises the barrier to entry |
| 01:26.03 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, if you're doing any kind of serious real-time AH work, there's new stuff showing up literally every few minutes |
| 01:26.05 | ZorbaTHut | you'd just never log out |
| 01:26.12 | ZorbaTHut | nech, at this point, yes, it appears to update the instant you log out |
| 01:26.15 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: You, or your bot? |
| 01:26.26 | Dagmar | People have to sleep. People get bored and fed up skimming the AH. |
| 01:26.26 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, if you have to log in and go buy something, then you |
| 01:26.26 | *** join/#wowuidev vulture- (~vulture@173-26-204-201.client.mchsi.com) |
| 01:26.27 | Dagmar | Bots don't. |
| 01:26.42 | ZorbaTHut | personally I use to put WoW in a tiny little window with a sound cue |
| 01:26.51 | ZorbaTHut | every few minutes it would ding and I'd just hammer the "buy more shit" button a few times |
| 01:27.10 | Dagmar | Yep, but either way you had to be there to d oit. |
| 01:27.24 | ZorbaTHut | if I were a gold farmer I'd just be sitting there with like twenty mice clicking them all constantly :D |
| 01:27.44 | ZorbaTHut | well, that's what I'm saying |
| 01:27.53 | ZorbaTHut | if you intend for people to buy stuff through XML, it needs to be realtime |
| 01:27.55 | Dagmar | ...and live access to the AH over the web will mean they'll no longer have to bother. |
| 01:27.58 | ZorbaTHut | if you don't intend for that, there's no reason not to make it realtime |
| 01:28.00 | Dagmar | They will be able to bot the entire process. |
| 01:28.17 | Nechckn | Surely there will be some barrier built in, though. Otherwise they'll be shooting themselves in the genitalia... not even the foot. |
| 01:28.23 | ZorbaTHut | if you have the technology to log into the game and buy things automatically, you certainly have the technology to scan the AH ingame automatically as well |
| 01:28.26 | Dagmar | Nechckn: Stupider things have been done |
| 01:28.30 | Nechckn | No matter how good the $$ is from the "premium service" |
| 01:28.39 | ZorbaTHut | nech, I'm expecting some kind of flood protection. one data dump per 15 minutes, perhaps. |
| 01:28.44 | ZorbaTHut | but honestly more than that isn't necessary. |
| 01:28.47 | ZorbaTHut | bandwidth is cheap, etc. |
| 01:28.48 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: The technology isn't the issue. |
| 01:29.01 | Dagmar | This lowers the effort a person is required to exert for this to near zero |
| 01:29.14 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, yes, and I do not believe it is a problem. the end users will find that prices go down |
| 01:29.19 | ZorbaTHut | and they are, by far, the most important people for blizzard. |
| 01:29.35 | Dagmar | The end users will find that there is no point in crafting to sell to other people anymore. |
| 01:29.43 | ZorbaTHut | yes, I'm okay with that. |
| 01:29.45 | Dagmar | I'm sure that'll just be a great selling point for the game. |
| 01:29.55 | ZorbaTHut | crafting in WoW has always been nigh-worthless |
| 01:29.56 | Dagmar | "We've got crafting, but now it's a pure money sink just like every other game." |
| 01:30.02 | Dagmar | No, it hasn't. |
| 01:30.12 | Dagmar | You've never spent any time crafting if you think that. |
| 01:30.20 | ZorbaTHut | unless you happen to be one of the dedicated industrialists who sits down and tries to understand it, 95% of the stuff you can craft is absolutely never worth crafting |
| 01:30.29 | Dagmar | Again, wrong. |
| 01:30.32 | WobWork | ZorbaTHut: That's beside the point, though |
| 01:30.45 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, sorry man, I've been spending my entire wow career crafting. I don't bother with anything except disenchanting anymore |
| 01:30.49 | ZorbaTHut | everything else is not worth the time :P |
| 01:30.58 | WobWork | There is always the dream for new players that they could get crafted items and sell for profits |
| 01:31.12 | WobWork | with this in place, they can't even offer the dream =P |
| 01:31.17 | ZorbaTHut | wob, that dream will still exist (and still be true, if they're willing to put the work into it) |
| 01:31.20 | Dagmar | Dude, I bought a freaking mechgineer's chopper with the money I made from selling epic leatherworking stuff that I made wiht materials I bought from the auction house |
| 01:31.30 | ZorbaTHut | I mean your argument is that so many people will be making money off crafting that nobody will be able to make money off crafting |
| 01:31.32 | ZorbaTHut | that is ridiculous |
| 01:31.35 | Dagmar | I can tell you very much that crafting has *not* been the money sink it's been in other games. |
| 01:31.46 | Dagmar | Strictly because the time required component creates a margin |
| 01:31.46 | ZorbaTHut | that's right up there with "nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded" |
| 01:32.08 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: You're having reading comprehension problems then |
| 01:32.12 | WobWork | ZorbaTHut: yeah, then you end up with raves full of nothing but bots =( |
| 01:32.15 | Dagmar | At no point did I say anything of the sort |
| 01:32.32 | Nechckn | plans a BotRave with Wobin. |
| 01:32.42 | Dagmar | I'll bring my mp3 player. It can DJ |
| 01:32.49 | WobWork | sets it up but sends a bot to go in his place |
| 01:33.05 | Dagmar | ...or we can get that DJ from Mai's here. He might as well be an mp3 player. |
| 01:33.21 | Nechckn | There are quite a few like that ;-) |
| 01:33.33 | ZorbaTHut | well what are you saying? you've claimed that people will use it to monopolize certain areas and bring the prices sky-high, and that somehow ridiculous profit margins make it impossible to make a profit |
| 01:33.56 | ZorbaTHut | you've claimed that so many people will be using this that it will be impossible to make money crafting, implying that everyone is doing this for, apparently, zero profit, which people don't do |
| 01:34.03 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: Simply put, the economy of scale involved in someone botting up the cheapest materials will mean that anyone not doing the same thing will have to either go farm all their mats and stick to making things only for themselves, or they will lose money to the people botting up materials every time |
| 01:34.17 | Shirik | huh... |
| 01:34.18 | Dagmar | ...because the people botting up the materials will always be able to sell for less money |
| 01:34.43 | WobWork | the more I look at the verb 'botting' the more five year old I feel =P |
| 01:34.53 | WobWork | BOTBOTTING |
| 01:35.06 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: Again, you're having reading comprehension problems |
| 01:35.37 | ZorbaTHut | well in some sense I agree - people might find that the prices of gear drop. I'm kind of okay with that. But on the other hand, I also don't have a problem with that |
| 01:35.44 | Thunder_Child | wait...you are not a 5 year old WobWork? |
| 01:35.45 | Dagmar | All the people botting will have to do to kick non-botters out will be to cancel and relist every time they're undercut |
| 01:35.51 | ZorbaTHut | lower prices for gear --> more stuff being bought --> more material consumption --> higher prices for materials |
| 01:36.07 | Dagmar | Look around at your server sometime |
| 01:36.10 | WobWork | "I'm kind of okay with that. But on the other hand, I also don't have a problem with that" <-- ambivalence at it's best =) |
| 01:36.26 | Dagmar | There's precious little margin to be had as it is |
| 01:36.29 | ZorbaTHut | wob, psht, bad writing :) |
| 01:36.36 | WobWork | Thunder_Child: I'm six five year olds working in gestalt |
| 01:36.47 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, that just means you're competing in an area which is being competed in far too much |
| 01:36.50 | Dagmar | With the width of swing between the high end and the low end of a given mateials market, if you know when to buy you can do reasonably well. |
| 01:36.53 | ZorbaTHut | competing in a saturated market is always an awful idea |
| 01:37.00 | *** join/#wowuidev cbreak (~cbreak@217-162-191-195.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 01:37.05 | Dagmar | Allowing bots to buy/sell will mean you will NOT be able to go at it casually anymore, period. |
| 01:37.08 | ZorbaTHut | you find the nonsaturated markets and you rake in mad profits |
| 01:37.20 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, honestly, I really do not see an issue with that |
| 01:37.22 | Thunder_Child | WobWork: i dont think 6 five year olds can work together....hell i'm not even sure 2 can |
| 01:37.23 | Nechckn | Oh yeah, WobWork... Well my Shirik botnet controls hundreds of systems around the globe. |
| 01:37.25 | ZorbaTHut | that's not "the economy is going to be destroyed" |
| 01:37.26 | Dagmar | There are no non-saturated markets except the new AShen verdict recipes |
| 01:37.33 | Nechckn | I just log into him and collect my loootzzz. |
| 01:37.33 | Shirik | ? |
| 01:37.40 | ZorbaTHut | that's "the economy is going to be more efficient, and the vast majority of people are going to be happier thanks to selling mats for more and buying gear for cheaper" |
| 01:37.48 | Thunder_Child | you are a botnet Shirik, just go with it |
| 01:37.48 | Dagmar | NOw it strictly comes down to how well you can bargain shop your materials |
| 01:37.50 | ZorbaTHut | I found a non-saturated market :D |
| 01:38.01 | ZorbaTHut | look around a bit, you might find one too. |
| 01:38.04 | ZorbaTHut | (two of them, in fact) |
| 01:38.15 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: I think about a hundred lines back we illustrated that it won't make materials sell fo rmore |
| 01:38.19 | WobWork | Thorium? =\ |
| 01:38.22 | Dagmar | That's simply a fallacy |
| 01:38.26 | ZorbaTHut | no, you made a bunch of wild contradictory claims |
| 01:38.28 | Nechckn | Thunder_Child My Shirik bot is programmed to insist he is a real boy. |
| 01:38.28 | WobWork | goddamn thorium =( |
| 01:38.30 | ZorbaTHut | I disagree strongly with those claims |
| 01:38.31 | Dagmar | No, you did. |
| 01:38.33 | Dagmar | Pbbblt. |
| 01:38.37 | WobWork | or worse yet, Mithril |
| 01:38.43 | Shirik | Do I pass the turing test? |
| 01:38.46 | Dagmar | How exactly is it that gear is going to sell for cheaper? |
| 01:38.51 | Thunder_Child | Shirik: no |
| 01:38.53 | Dagmar | ...while the cost of materials will supposedly go up:"? |
| 01:38.56 | Shirik | :( |
| 01:39.00 | Dagmar | These two things are impossible. |
| 01:39.04 | Nechckn | pats Shirik |
| 01:39.14 | Thunder_Child | Nechckn: well, i am quite sure you mean man, not boy |
| 01:39.16 | ZorbaTHut | dude, *you're* the one who's been claiming that |
| 01:39.21 | Dagmar | They meet in the middle and go no farther, or you're into money-sink territory |
| 01:39.21 | ZorbaTHut | you've been saying that the profit margin is going to go away |
| 01:39.23 | Dagmar | No, I have *not* |
| 01:39.24 | Nechckn | Behave or the blue fairy will never turn you into a person. |
| 01:39.25 | ZorbaTHut | where do you expect it's going to go? |
| 01:39.29 | Dagmar | Again, your reading comprehension problem |
| 01:39.41 | ZorbaTHut | okay here let's put this into simple numbers |
| 01:39.42 | WobWork | maybe we can start again with basic outlines =P |
| 01:39.45 | Dagmar | Try reading the goddamn words I type instead of creatively reinterpreting them and wasting both of our time. |
| 01:39.52 | ZorbaTHut | right now it costs 100 gold to build a Cloak of Being Fucking Badass, and you can sell it for 1000 gold |
| 01:40.05 | Nechckn | Thunder_Child AI reference ;-) |
| 01:40.08 | Dagmar | I actually spent a lot of time trying to figure out the markets on my server before I even embarked on trying to get a chopper |
| 01:40.14 | ZorbaTHut | when the AH change comes along, you're saying that people are going to farm up the cheapest mats, and get it for, maybe, 80 gold |
| 01:40.16 | WobWork | That cloak looks terrible on belfs =( |
| 01:40.22 | WobWork | that's a market hit, right there |
| 01:40.25 | ZorbaTHut | and meanwhile you'll be stuck buying it for 120 gold |
| 01:40.39 | Dagmar | Yes, I'm saying that "professonal" crafters will begin scraping the AH twenty-four seven |
| 01:40.46 | ZorbaTHut | so how much is it going to be sold for? because if it's 900 gold then you're still totally fine, you're getting 780 gold per pop |
| 01:40.59 | Dagmar | They will have essentially priveledged access to a lower cost of materials. |
| 01:41.07 | Thunder_Child | Nechckn: s/AI/pinocchio/ |
| 01:41.20 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: You are getting two separate groups of people confused. |
| 01:41.25 | Dagmar | The botters and the non-botters |
| 01:41.48 | Dagmar | Let's just say in theory that the lower-end of the borean leather market rides right at the vendor price |
| 01:42.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan (~pancake@cpe-174-098-002-214.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 01:42.08 | ZorbaTHut | I don't care about botters and non-botters. There's one group - there's "people who make things". Some of them are better at getting cheaper materials than others. That's all there is to it. |
| 01:42.10 | Dagmar | ...and that the high side of that is maybe 12g a pop, with the low end being 7. |
| 01:42.22 | ZorbaTHut | You're saying that you're awful at getting cheap materials, and that the increase in cost is going to make it impossible to make money. |
| 01:42.35 | Dagmar | People getting a "decent" market price because they're not botting it will be looking at spending 9-10g per unit |
| 01:42.38 | WobWork | BOTS ARE PEOPLE TOO |
| 01:42.47 | WobWork | (Soylent Green is made from Orc) |
| 01:42.48 | Dagmar | People botting will be getting that 7g figure |
| 01:43.07 | Dagmar | No matter what you do as a "casual" crafter, the botters will *always* be able to undercut you |
| 01:43.18 | Dagmar | They'll be paying less for their materials, all the time |
| 01:43.25 | ZorbaTHut | Alright. So what? Who cares? |
| 01:43.31 | Dagmar | That is, unless of course they soak up the lower end and enforce a price floor of 8g |
| 01:43.36 | Dagmar | ...which will net them 1g per unit. |
| 01:43.38 | Thunder_Child | thats a horrid pun Wobot |
| 01:43.39 | ZorbaTHut | Now they're selling cheap Cloaks of Being Fucking Badass |
| 01:43.41 | Dagmar | Not much but it adds up |
| 01:43.45 | WobWork | Yeah |
| 01:43.51 | ZorbaTHut | everyone is happy and everyone buys a fancy new Cloak |
| 01:44.01 | ZorbaTHut | what's the problem here? |
| 01:44.11 | WobWork | Everyone except the belfs |
| 01:44.15 | Dagmar | That it's not "everyone".\ |
| 01:44.16 | ZorbaTHut | poor belfs |
| 01:44.18 | Dagmar | It's just the people running bots |
| 01:44.21 | WobWork | who wouldn't be caught dead in a chartreuse cloak |
| 01:44.21 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, no, it's everyone but you |
| 01:44.24 | ZorbaTHut | it's everyone who wants cheap cloaks |
| 01:44.28 | ZorbaTHut | it's everyone who's trying to sell materials |
| 01:44.28 | Dagmar | Yes, because I have scruples |
| 01:44.36 | ZorbaTHut | it's everyone who has an entreprenurial spirit |
| 01:44.39 | WobWork | Dagmar keeps them in a jar by his bed |
| 01:44.41 | Dagmar | The people selling materials generally are happy to get what they get |
| 01:44.44 | Nechckn | You don't bot?? Wait a minute |
| 01:44.49 | ZorbaTHut | in short, it's everyone besides the guy whining that he's being undercut by someone being smarter than he is :P |
| 01:44.50 | Nechckn | Who are you people?!?! |
| 01:45.03 | Dagmar | WobWork: Seriously man, it's a freaking game. I could leech all the excess out of the AH on my server, but fer crissakes I don't really need it |
| 01:45.15 | Dagmar | I know if I do that it takes money away from other people. |
| 01:45.17 | ZorbaTHut | I'm sorry, I don't have any sympathy. The market becomes more efficient and people who aren't willing to put the effort in end up making squat. |
| 01:45.26 | Dagmar | Not people. |
| 01:45.26 | Dagmar | Bots. |
| 01:45.28 | Nechckn | botting does not equal smarter, however. |
| 01:45.32 | ZorbaTHut | who runs the bots exactly? |
| 01:45.38 | ZorbaTHut | is it other, smarter bots? |
| 01:45.38 | Dagmar | Botters. |
| 01:45.40 | ZorbaTHut | or is it people? |
| 01:45.41 | WobWork | the person who originally wrote the script |
| 01:45.41 | ZorbaTHut | I bet it's people |
| 01:45.48 | WobWork | not the people who run the script |
| 01:46.03 | WobWork | they're not called Script Kiddies for no reason =P |
| 01:46.10 | Nechckn | ^^ |
| 01:46.11 | Dagmar | Yes, so the people who are botting, i.e., not really playing the game themselves, but turning the job over to a script, will then have the majority of the money |
| 01:46.12 | ZorbaTHut | nech, I'd argue that if you have two options, one of which is "make money" and one of which is "don't make money", and you choose the former, then you're smarter |
| 01:46.18 | Dagmar | What are they going to do with it? |
| 01:46.19 | ZorbaTHut | so, yes, if dagmar is correct, then botting does equal smarter :) |
| 01:46.25 | Dagmar | Likely sell it to other people for real money |
| 01:46.34 | Dagmar | Right. That's enough douchbaggery for one night. |
| 01:46.35 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, in my experience, use it to buy pets and fancy toys and crafted armor |
| 01:46.39 | Dagmar | I no longer give a damn what you think. |
| 01:46.43 | Nechckn | For goldsellers and shitbags who bot... sure. |
| 01:46.58 | ZorbaTHut | honestly I'm about 99% sure that gold sellers won't touch this thing |
| 01:47.11 | ZorbaTHut | gold sellers already pick up gold in ridiculously inefficient manners, I see no reason why they'd change now |
| 01:47.12 | WobWork | hehe, they probably will enforce an authenticator number with each outside AH transaction |
| 01:48.28 | Nechckn | Well.. those who bot, period. But that all goes back to them being "smarter" than those who want to enjoy the game and kill pixies and such. |
| 01:48.33 | Dagmar | Only mental retardation or deliberate refusal can explain the return to the same broken points over and over again |
| 01:48.44 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, for once, I agree fully with you |
| 01:48.59 | ZorbaTHut | nech, some of us find moneymaking fun. I do :) |
| 01:49.15 | Nechckn | And you need to bot to do it? |
| 01:49.29 | ZorbaTHut | *shrug* I like automation. Most of my moneymaking comes down to scripts I've developed. |
| 01:49.36 | ZorbaTHut | The challenge is figuring out how to make money within the rules of the game. |
| 01:49.42 | Nechckn | Or... oh wait, this has all been couved ad nauseum, so I shall hold off on it. |
| 01:49.47 | ZorbaTHut | The rules permit certain kinds of scripts, so I use them ruthlessly. I find the moneymaking fun, not the grinding. |
| 01:50.03 | ZorbaTHut | Finding new markets: fun. Clicking "mine saronite" a billion times: not fun. |
| 01:50.12 | *** join/#wowuidev cncfanatics1 (~cncfanati@51.38-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 01:50.12 | Nechckn | Who said it was? |
| 01:50.30 | ZorbaTHut | *shrug* some of the things I do to make money would be unfun if they weren't somewhat automatable. |
| 01:50.32 | ZorbaTHut | Luckily, they are. |
| 01:50.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko1 (~Kandoko@adsl-068-159-119-207.sip.gsp.bellsouth.net) |
| 01:50.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (~Kandoko@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 01:51.11 | Nechckn | But.. as with bots in-game, you can be sure there will be similar TOSs to accept, including not being a douche to your fellow players - even if it is possible. |
| 01:51.22 | Dagmar | Not possible. |
| 01:51.40 | ZorbaTHut | Sure, but I don't think I am being a douche. I'm buying people's stuff and selling other stuff to people. |
| 01:51.40 | Dagmar | Frankly, I think some players would burst into flames if you told them they weren't allowed to be a dick to other people. |
| 01:51.50 | Dagmar | It seems to be the only reason some of the servers exist. |
| 01:51.52 | ZorbaTHut | I'm providing a valuable service to both buyers and sellers. |
| 01:51.53 | Nechckn | You may as well make an argument that Glider is perfectly allowed. It's just "smarter" use of a computer - why not? |
| 01:52.13 | Dagmar | Nechckn: The point is to waste your time and to generally annoy you with incessant troll argumentation |
| 01:52.25 | ZorbaTHut | glider actually did violate the game rules. That said, I think the fact that they needed to ban Glider is a sign of a flawed game design. |
| 01:52.33 | *** join/#wowuidev cncfanatics (~cncfanati@WoWUIDev/cncfanatics) |
| 01:52.48 | ZorbaTHut | ATITD, a game fully built around crafting, explicitly allows Glider-style bots and is none the worse for them, because anything of real value also requires real skill. |
| 01:52.50 | cogwheel | so i figured out how to solve fresh water shortages.... make humans able to digest salt water! |
| 01:53.05 | Dagmar | cogwheel: Worth a shot at least |
| 01:53.26 | cogwheel | i bet they could devise a gene therapy that would be cheaper and more effective than current desalination technologies and conservation programs |
| 01:53.34 | Dagmar | ...alhtough I still don't get why massive centrifuges arne't also a viable method of desalinization |
| 01:54.11 | Nechckn | What ever works for you.. I know plenty who do not use any bots and bump the gold cap often. It surely is not rocket science. |
| 01:54.31 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, I believe they're expensive to keep running, and thus impractical |
| 01:54.39 | Dagmar | Nechckn: Barrier to entry is about to get a lot lower |
| 01:54.44 | Nechckn | My alts all do more than well enough to buy goodies, so it's no biggie. |
| 01:54.46 | ZorbaTHut | nechckn, well, I don't use out-of-game bots, it's all restricted to ingame lua scripts. Do they avoid lua scripts also? |
| 01:54.49 | cogwheel | Dagmar: any form of desalinations has energy as the #1 cost (evaporation = heat, centrifuge = mechanical) |
| 01:54.54 | Dagmar | Those people probably spend a lot of real time worrying about it |
| 01:55.14 | Dagmar | cogwheel: Yeah, but there's lots of people without jobs in places that have little fresh water |
| 01:55.18 | Dagmar | Sorry, couldn't resist that troll |
| 01:55.30 | Nechckn | Allowed scripts, sure. That anyone is freely allowed to run. |
| 01:55.56 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, that's what I use also. Easy enough. |
| 01:56.01 | cogwheel | Dagmar: i'm fairly certain osmotic & evaporative solutions are a bit safer ;) |
| 01:56.40 | Nechckn | And? That is not an unattended bot running without intervention of any kind. Not that the hypothetically flawed design would allow. |
| 01:56.40 | Dagmar | Put 'em on stationary bikes driving centrifuges |
| 01:56.44 | ZorbaTHut | *shrug* I just do not see any pending doom from this. Hell, people were screaming doom about the in-dungeon "disenchant" option, and yet I'm still doing totally fine money-wise. |
| 01:58.04 | Nechckn | Opening the game to an outside, as of yet to be announced influence is much riskier. From the economy to exploit potential, however. |
| 01:58.14 | ZorbaTHut | nech, I do not honestly see a problem. I don't think it's going to come up. Smart people will still figure out how to make money, other people will still complain that it's impossible to make money, just like is happening today. You'll always need people to make intelligent decisions. |
| 01:58.27 | ZorbaTHut | It's not an "outside influence", it's the same players who play the game. |
| 01:58.36 | Nechckn | Until anything is known, for certain, it is all just guessing, anywhoo. |
| 01:58.45 | ZorbaTHut | True. |
| 01:59.29 | Dagmar | Nechckn: ...and if it turns out this is poison for people trying to skill up in crafting without losing their shirts or botting? Then what? |
| 01:59.50 | Dagmar | It's a bitch *now* to raise a trade skill without losing money |
| 02:00.10 | Dagmar | It's about to require more effort than most people put into their day jobs |
| 02:00.22 | Nechckn | Then, it is Blizzard's problem, honestly... sure, it could be impacted, but it may not. All depending on the implementation. |
| 02:00.42 | Nechckn | I agree, it is not easy for new folks to get started, but not impossible. |
| 02:00.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Laibcoms (~laibcoms@iwakura7.broker.freenet6.net) |
| 02:01.07 | Dagmar | It's a lot easier for them now since people will freely spend level-80 money on level 25 materials |
| 02:01.35 | Dagmar | That ther'es not a lot of pressure on to strip the lowbies clean is probably the only reason that happens tho |
| 02:03.05 | NeoTron | crafting has been and always will be a time and money sink |
| 02:03.08 | NeoTron | leveling it that is |
| 02:03.12 | Dagmar | No, it has not. |
| 02:03.22 | NeoTron | well sure, in SWG it wasn't but talking about WoW here |
| 02:03.27 | Dagmar | If you want to see a money sink, go look at EverQuest |
| 02:03.43 | Dagmar | Spending 12g of materials to make a silver plate worth about 50s |
| 02:03.48 | Dagmar | THAT is a money sink |
| 02:04.01 | ZorbaTHut | I've been playing around with a game design that makes trade skills actually useful and skill-based, as well as profitable to level up |
| 02:04.07 | Dagmar | At least in WoW you can make decent goods and sell them for a decent price |
| 02:04.07 | ZorbaTHut | tentatively called World of Craftcraft |
| 02:04.09 | NeoTron | it's still not intended to be profitable to increase the crafting profession itself |
| 02:04.14 | Legorol|fka | i hear that leveling crafting is expensive, which is strange, because i always had fun experiences with crafting leveling |
| 02:04.26 | Legorol | which part of craft leveling is expensive? |
| 02:04.28 | Dagmar | I've got four crafting professions almost maxed out |
| 02:04.37 | ZorbaTHut | legorol, where did you get your mats from? |
| 02:04.38 | NeoTron | Legorol: buying the mats |
| 02:04.39 | Legorol | on all my alts i usually level crafting as they level, and it never cost me much |
| 02:04.45 | Dagmar | None of them did I spend big piles of cash on unless I was in a burning hot hurry to raise them *RIGHT NAO* |
| 02:04.46 | Legorol | ZorbaTHut: i was going to get to that |
| 02:04.46 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, opportunity costs there |
| 02:04.51 | Legorol | i'm a huge packrat |
| 02:04.52 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: puzzle pirates is an excellent example of that. |
| 02:05.02 | NeoTron | remember, crafting for end game = two professions that benefit you = not gathering professions |
| 02:05.04 | ZorbaTHut | instead of using the mats, you could have sold them on the AH |
| 02:05.07 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: tradeskills are literally skills possed by the guy sitting behind the keyboard. |
| 02:05.07 | Legorol | i never vendor anything that's white or higher, with the exception of food/drink |
| 02:05.09 | ZorbaTHut | that's still a cost :) |
| 02:05.24 | Legorol | ZorbaTHut: sort of, but not quite |
| 02:05.28 | ZorbaTHut | jerub, yeah, PP does a damn good job. Still, it's not quite what I was looking for |
| 02:05.29 | Legorol | i understand what you mean |
| 02:05.37 | ZorbaTHut | in PP, crafting everything with a single skill is the same |
| 02:05.38 | Legorol | but i mostly play WoW in a self-contained little universe |
| 02:05.42 | NeoTron | lost sales is going to be less of a cost but it's not "free" |
| 02:05.45 | NeoTron | it's lost sales |
| 02:05.53 | Legorol | with the exception of buying herbs for my flasks (i dont' have a herbalist), i hardly ever buy stuff on AH |
| 02:05.55 | ZorbaTHut | everything with blacksmithing is the blacksmithing game, etc |
| 02:06.01 | Legorol | then again, i don't sell much either |
| 02:06.04 | *** join/#wowuidev drexore (~drexore@redeye.xs4all.nl) |
| 02:06.12 | NeoTron | I always find it amusing when people farm for a specific resource, let's say primal shadow before they were used in BT and were dirt cheap |
| 02:06.21 | Dagmar | NeoTron: It'll turn into two crafting professions and one bot soon |
| 02:06.30 | ZorbaTHut | I've been playing around with an idea where you end up building a machine out of parts, then maintaining the machine to build items. how you design the machine depends on what you're building, your personal skill, how much time you're willing to put into the crafting process, etc |
| 02:06.33 | NeoTron | because they needed 10 primal shadow.. instead of farming 3 primal water in the sime period of time and selling them and buying the shadow |
| 02:06.41 | ZorbaTHut | I also want to permit "group crafting" and "raid crafting" |
| 02:06.46 | NeoTron | time is money friend. what matters is gold / hour, not gathering specific mats :P |
| 02:06.48 | Dagmar | Without even the gathering skills, it's going to come down to whose bot can score materials for the lowest cost |
| 02:06.55 | Legorol | neotron: i totally agree |
| 02:07.02 | ZorbaTHut | if I can rig up a system that allows some guild to be known as the Best Blacksmiths In The Game, due to their own skills rather than to a raw number, then I will be quite happy |
| 02:07.09 | Legorol | that's my one exception to buying on AH. if i could do dailies for more gold in less time, i do buy on AH |
| 02:07.12 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: hm. i have a vision of a tower defence style RTS coming into my head thinking about that. |
| 02:07.15 | NeoTron | ZorbaTHut: SWG crafting can't be beat |
| 02:07.21 | Legorol | i understand the thing about lost sales, but i'm happy |
| 02:07.24 | NeoTron | although SWG was too far, too many mats |
| 02:07.27 | ZorbaTHut | neotron, I never tried SWG crafting, didn't they completely change it a while back? |
| 02:07.29 | Legorol | somehow my in-game gold always hovers around the same sort of amount |
| 02:07.35 | Legorol | i don't have large expenses, nor large incomes |
| 02:07.37 | Dagmar | NeoTron: And far too much time flying around collecting them |
| 02:07.38 | Legorol | so i'm content |
| 02:07.41 | Jerub | Legorol: how many digits does that number have? |
| 02:07.43 | Legorol | and my tradeskills go up |
| 02:07.43 | NeoTron | and perhaps a bit too much about having collected the right mat at the right time making it hard for newcomers |
| 02:07.46 | Legorol | Jerub: 5 |
| 02:07.52 | NeoTron | ZorbaTHut: well original crafting |
| 02:07.57 | ZorbaTHut | jerub, I played around with a few designs and came up with something that people agreed was kind of fun despite being hugely unfinished |
| 02:08.03 | ZorbaTHut | sadly I ended up working on other stuff after that |
| 02:08.09 | ZorbaTHut | someday I'll go back to it and keep working on it |
| 02:08.17 | ZorbaTHut | maybe I'll make it an ipad game :D |
| 02:08.27 | Legorol | part of my secret i guess is that i don't level professions from scratch, i just always level them furtherm from the previous expansion |
| 02:08.38 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: I wanna make an android app, but i don't think it'll be a game. |
| 02:08.40 | NeoTron | there was some skill in SWG but mainly it was just farming mats |
| 02:08.44 | Legorol | i have maxed out BS, JC, Engi, miner, skinner, enchanter, tailor |
| 02:08.47 | Legorol | LW on its way |
| 02:08.48 | Dagmar | Legorol: You're also probably not in a hurry to raise them all 100 points at one go either |
| 02:08.55 | Jerub | i levelled to 430 JC in 3 days |
| 02:08.55 | Legorol | Dagmar: indeed |
| 02:08.58 | NeoTron | where you don't just have "iron" but "iron" has 4 random qualities that affect the outcome of the item |
| 02:09.02 | Dagmar | The people trying to do 0-450 in three hours lose their shirts, always |
| 02:09.11 | NeoTron | and theer are 5 types of iron, some items requiring specifics, some not |
| 02:09.15 | Legorol | Dagmar: which seems to make it easier (at least for me), because i level them as i come across mats on my other chars |
| 02:09.24 | Jerub | cost me about 700g and about a million goodwill. |
| 02:09.31 | Jerub | (but i mailed off 300 frostweave and got all that goodwill back) |
| 02:09.33 | ZorbaTHut | neotron, I definitely want *some* amount of that, though I absolutely will require a sane auction house for it |
| 02:09.37 | ZorbaTHut | buy orders, goddamn |
| 02:09.51 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: yeah, AH is a bad idea imho. |
| 02:09.54 | NeoTron | player owned shops |
| 02:09.55 | Legorol | tailor is a good example: i leveled it as frostweave was pouring in from other chars |
| 02:09.55 | Jerub | a market would be wonderful. |
| 02:10.03 | Dagmar | Legorol: Yeah the leveling path being shortened has made that somewhat problematic lately tho |
| 02:10.10 | Jerub | a proper market, with buy/sell orders would be a dream. |
| 02:10.13 | NeoTron | frankly a lot about SWG has been entirely unrivaled in any other MMO I've seen |
| 02:10.18 | Legorol | Dagmar: what do you mean? |
| 02:10.21 | Jerub | EVE/PP got this right. |
| 02:10.21 | ZorbaTHut | Eve Online's market was the best |
| 02:10.25 | Jerub | AH was a stupid idea. |
| 02:10.27 | Legorol | dagmar: oh you mean the character level |
| 02:10.27 | NeoTron | it's too bad so much of the core of it was broken, and they decide dto intentionally completely break it |
| 02:10.29 | ZorbaTHut | yeah absolutely |
| 02:10.51 | Dagmar | Legorol: I mean you no longer get the approximate amount of mats needed to level a tradeskill as you gain XP levels |
| 02:10.51 | ZorbaTHut | ever seen FFXI's market? goddamn it's even worse than WoW's |
| 02:10.51 | Legorol | dagmar: indeed there are less level appropriate resources coming in |
| 02:10.51 | Dagmar | ...because you now gain levels much faster than you used to. |
| 02:10.54 | Legorol | right |
| 02:10.57 | Jerub | wow classic's AH was ludicrous. unlinked AHs. |
| 02:11.09 | Legorol | that's where the "i level my profession only from the last expansion" bit comes in |
| 02:11.34 | Dagmar | Still, now it really only requires about 1/4 farming time to keep up |
| 02:11.36 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, that was terrible |
| 02:11.37 | Legorol | jerub: was there ever unlinked AH? i just thought the only place with AH was IF |
| 02:11.50 | Dagmar | It's not insanely out of whack like it's been in a few other games I've played |
| 02:12.00 | kd3 | it was just IF, then unlinked in if/sw/darn, then linked |
| 02:12.06 | kd3 | iirc |
| 02:12.07 | ZorbaTHut | personally I wish they'd link all the realms' AHes, with some extra (and implicitly added) percentage cost attached to buying from other AHes |
| 02:12.25 | Legorol | oh there was unlinked period |
| 02:12.25 | Legorol | crap |
| 02:12.25 | Dagmar | I swear in EQ they should have just cut to the chase and let you trade in videos of you beating yourself with whips for platinum |
| 02:12.26 | Legorol | i don't exaclty remember how it evolved :) i only remember when there was NO AH in beta, and someone wrote an AH "addon" |
| 02:12.27 | ZorbaTHut | I doubt they'll ever do it but man it would be nice |
| 02:12.31 | Legorol | (back then addons weren't really addons) |
| 02:12.53 | Dagmar | I rmemeber it then |
| 02:13.03 | Dagmar | Beta was the last time I deliberately scraped the AH |
| 02:13.27 | NeoTron | quest items used to be BoE |
| 02:13.30 | Legorol | i'm tempted to start playing the AH again a bit |
| 02:13.31 | Legorol | it's fun |
| 02:13.32 | NeoTron | those were the days |
| 02:13.37 | Legorol | maybe i'll shoot for 6-digit gold |
| 02:13.50 | Dagmar | Drop bids on the lowest 25% of any given market, collect loot, relist for that as minimum, plus about 15-30% buyout. Infinite money |
| 02:14.14 | Dagmar | 'cept I was contributing exactly nothing to the economy |
| 02:14.18 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, I'm curious whether you think buy orders would be a good idea or not :) |
| 02:14.24 | ZorbaTHut | also that actually does contribute |
| 02:14.35 | ZorbaTHut | middlemen are valuable to stabilize the market |
| 02:15.06 | ZorbaTHut | same reason futures trading in the real world is so goddamn profitable+useful |
| 02:15.34 | kd3 | as long as you're virtually buying and not winding up with 9 barges of coal |
| 02:15.48 | ZorbaTHut | kd3, amen to that |
| 02:16.47 | Dagmar | Yeah that's the other huge difference between this and IRL |
| 02:17.01 | Legorol | there are two things that'd be nice in WoW: buy orders and hidden minimum sell price on your auctions (by that i mean the buyout would lower until you reach your minimum if there is someone undercutting you) |
| 02:17.06 | Dagmar | IRL 400 ingots of silver don't fit neatly in your mailbox |
| 02:17.12 | Dagmar | They require a warehouse and security, and many ongoing costs |
| 02:17.31 | ZorbaTHut | legorol, honestly, the latter isn't even necessary with the former, IMHO |
| 02:17.33 | kdtresh | you can't carry thousands of gold coins in your pockets either |
| 02:17.39 | Jerub | the '''AH''' holds 1-2 'auctions' for every few thousand buyouts. |
| 02:17.43 | kdtresh | or carry 5 backpacks full of suits of armor |
| 02:17.48 | Legorol | ZorbaTHut: explain please? those work in two different directions |
| 02:18.25 | Legorol | one is a buyer's convenience, the other is a seller's |
| 02:18.43 | Jerub | kdtresh: I carry 4 at the moment, if I was still doing kitty it'd be 5 or 6. :( |
| 02:18.48 | Dagmar | Legorol: He can't see the difference because it suits his argument to ignore the difference |
| 02:18.57 | Legorol | ehm |
| 02:19.01 | ZorbaTHut | legorol, buy orders are a convenience for both buyers and sellers - the seller can just go and say "oh look these people are willing to buy for this amount, tada, done" |
| 02:19.09 | Legorol | sure |
| 02:19.19 | Legorol | but when there is no buy order, setting a minimum is nice |
| 02:19.22 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, dude, knock off the personal attacks. you disagree with me, fine, but don't turn this into a douche competition |
| 02:19.48 | Dagmar | Numerous times I had to yell at people to go place a freakin' bid on some mail I'd listed |
| 02:20.07 | Legorol | btw, RIP bids :( |
| 02:20.18 | Legorol | it's a shame that all the instant gratification seekers only use buyouts |
| 02:20.23 | Dagmar | "If you want it at that price, bid on the damn thing instead of insisting on a buyout. This is how you SAVE MONEY, noob" |
| 02:20.44 | ZorbaTHut | legorol, I feel like with any well-developed market, the auto-sell-order-reduction thing would be largely irrelevant - everyone but the lowest bidder would just end up at the lowest price. I dunno, I see it as more of a "I want to get a bunch of extra money from people" thing than a "I want to automatically undercut people" thing |
| 02:21.25 | ZorbaTHut | I admit it's not entirely useless, but I feel like it's far less useful than just implementing eve markets would be |
| 02:21.48 | Jerub | Legorol: I don't bid because the interface is shit. |
| 02:21.49 | Legorol | i don't agree with your conclusion. the whole point is that who becomes the lowest bidder is not clear, and that's important |
| 02:21.57 | Legorol | let me put it this way. |
| 02:22.03 | Legorol | undercutting wars happen |
| 02:22.04 | WobWork | I don't use bid |
| 02:22.09 | Dagmar | I use bid. |
| 02:22.09 | WobWork | because I need the item straight away |
| 02:22.13 | Jerub | Legorol: I tie up my capital in bids on things that are probably going to be bought out, so i have to go to my mailbox ot get my money back so i can go to the aH to put on more bids. |
| 02:22.14 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, I suppose that's fair. Alright, I'll concede that the auto-reduction would be nice, just to cut down on the undercut war issue. |
| 02:22.15 | Legorol | whoever can't camp the AH loses undercut wars |
| 02:22.17 | WobWork | I bid when I'm planning ahead on stuff |
| 02:22.40 | ZorbaTHut | (on the other hand, my solution to undercut wars is just to not worry about it - people will undercut me, I ignore them :P) |
| 02:22.46 | Dagmar | Jerub: In other words, you're broke most of the time because you pay the buyout premium instead of just low ball bidding |
| 02:23.05 | Legorol | ZorbaTHut: undercut wars matter in small margin, high volume markets imo |
| 02:23.24 | Dagmar | I thought it was low volume, high margin |
| 02:23.40 | Dagmar | If there's little margin you can't really afford to go pissing away auction house deposits |
| 02:23.48 | Legorol | yah that too |
| 02:23.50 | ZorbaTHut | yes I think dagmar is correct here, in small margin high volume markets I just assume they'll sell out quickly ;) |
| 02:24.02 | Jerub | yep. |
| 02:24.10 | ZorbaTHut | although again those are situations where buy orders improve things a lot |
| 02:24.16 | Jerub | i don't bother bidding on crafting mats because they shift too fast to buyouts. |
| 02:24.17 | Legorol | what i meant is: in markets where there is a lot of supply and the market can't buy it all up |
| 02:24.26 | WobWork | I wouldn't mind buy orders |
| 02:24.31 | cogwheel | ^ |
| 02:24.33 | ZorbaTHut | you don't spend hours jousting around trying to sell things for 5998.98.99 when there's a guy with a buy order for 5900 |
| 02:24.36 | Jerub | sure, i'll bid on stuff that's 3x more xpensive to buyout that sells in low volumes. |
| 02:24.37 | Dagmar | Jerub: Okay there I'll definitely agree with you. People are downright stupid about bid values on crafting materials |
| 02:24.46 | ZorbaTHut | you're just like, bam, buy order, item sold, $$$*5900 |
| 02:24.57 | Legorol | ZorbaTHut: but people wouldn't bother with buy orders on mats, which have a high turnover |
| 02:25.04 | Legorol | although not clear |
| 02:25.11 | ZorbaTHut | legorol, I strongly disagree, I think that is the very thing people *would* bother with buy orderse on |
| 02:25.20 | Jerub | i wonder if the xml interface will give us the holy grail. |
| 02:25.23 | Dagmar | ...especially considering that if you're looking to work in anything approaching bulk, whether or not you get the materials right now or in 48 hours makes no difference. You just need them *cheap* |
| 02:25.36 | ZorbaTHut | I mean as dagmar's saying, the people with bots will be using it to get mats cheaply. buy orders would largely eliminate the bot issue entirely |
| 02:25.42 | cogwheel | Legorol: high turnover just means lower margin |
| 02:25.49 | ZorbaTHut | you just toss up a buy order for 10,000 saronite bars at whatever you're willing to pay |
| 02:25.55 | Jerub | what people /actually paid/. up until this point we've been farming data on existing sell offers, and we never know if it sold to buyout, was cancelled or sold to highest bidder. |
| 02:25.59 | Legorol | i have an issue with bids. whenever i bid, even at reasonable (and not greedy-low) prices, there's a good chance someone will just buy it out anyway |
| 02:26.14 | Jerub | Legorol: that's what i was saying earlier. |
| 02:26.33 | Jerub | then you have to go collect your mail to get that money back. :/ |
| 02:26.34 | cogwheel | WoW could take some economics lessons from EVE imo |
| 02:26.35 | Legorol | i have the patience and willingness to bid |
| 02:26.46 | Legorol | but people don't put up low bid, high buyout auctions anymore, |
| 02:26.46 | ZorbaTHut | cogwheel, amen to that |
| 02:26.47 | Dagmar | Legorol: That's because the person putting the listing up ther ewas stupid and didn't ask for slightly more |
| 02:26.50 | Legorol | so it all just gets bought out |
| 02:26.56 | Jerub | even ebay style bidding. |
| 02:27.00 | Jerub | "this is my maximum price" |
| 02:27.00 | Dagmar | Ther'es little point in having your bid and your buyout be the lowest in the list |
| 02:27.06 | Jerub | and you pay what the next highest bidder bid. |
| 02:27.09 | ZorbaTHut | legorol, I put up bids for ~10% less. Sometimes bids get chosen, but rarely. |
| 02:27.19 | Legorol | the strange thing is, there seems to be an issue with bids whereby the buyers bother less and less, and so the sellers bother less and less |
| 02:27.23 | Legorol | and it spirals out of contorl |
| 02:27.38 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-68-38-45-3.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 02:27.38 | Jerub | i just auctioneer 'market' prices to set my bid and buyout prices. |
| 02:27.57 | Dagmar | Yeah and unfortunately those two figures wind up being close together, all the time |
| 02:28.04 | Legorol | i tried putting stuff up at lower-than-market bids, and higher-than-market buyouts |
| 02:28.07 | Legorol | it usually doesn't sell |
| 02:28.12 | Dagmar | ...which frankly they should, but it's a broken method of estimation for _listing_ things at |
| 02:28.25 | Jerub | Legorol: my interface orders by buyout price. |
| 02:28.30 | Dagmar | Legorol: I jump on below-market bids |
| 02:28.36 | Jerub | I don't even know how to make it order by bid price. |
| 02:28.37 | Legorol | Jerub: so does most people's |
| 02:28.38 | cogwheel | if there were a buy order system, my wife would probably spend all her time daytrading on the ah ... |
| 02:28.42 | ZorbaTHut | I'm not a huge fan of auctioneer's value estimation code, myself, but am too lazy to sit down and make something better :P |
| 02:29.06 | WobWork | really, in between buy orders and normal AH action |
| 02:29.11 | Jerub | I would love to see graphs of high volume markets week-to-week. |
| 02:29.15 | WobWork | people could just spend time working between the two |
| 02:29.15 | ZorbaTHut | I wonder how you'd rig up some kind of a futures market for WoW commodities |
| 02:29.16 | Dagmar | Jerub: Keep clicking the column heading until it says "Bid each" |
| 02:29.34 | WobWork | ZorbaTHut: I totally want to see a Wall Street =) |
| 02:29.57 | Dagmar | WobWork: That's all bots now |
| 02:30.00 | WobWork | ZorbaTHut: Except it'd only -really- work if there was a centralised AH for every single server |
| 02:30.02 | ZorbaTHut | wobwork, now buying CBLT for 70s/share |
| 02:30.14 | Dagmar | ...but at least everyone's got relatively the same access to them |
| 02:30.14 | Jerub | I just want to be able to trade on the AH while jumping on the org bank roof while waiting for raids to start with a non-crap raid browser. |
| 02:30.17 | Legorol | CBLT? |
| 02:30.21 | WobWork | cobalt =P |
| 02:30.23 | Jerub | .... I'll never have my wish. |
| 02:30.32 | WobWork | pats Jerub |
| 02:30.34 | ZorbaTHut | as I mentioned before, what I really want to see is a game-wide unified AH, but with extra thresholds between servers |
| 02:30.42 | WobWork | Jerub: At least we'll still have Paris =) |
| 02:30.55 | Legorol | Jerub: the raid browser isn't half bad |
| 02:30.57 | Legorol | it's better than before |
| 02:31.09 | Legorol | granted that the DF got the most love this time, but that was a huge improvement |
| 02:31.09 | ZorbaTHut | so if I put up a Shield of Awesomeness for 5000g on my Cornbringer server, then the dude on Shattered Wheat sees it for 10,000g |
| 02:31.10 | Jerub | Legorol: but no one uses it. |
| 02:31.17 | Legorol | Jerub: on my realm it's used often |
| 02:31.21 | WobWork | ZorbaTHut: who gets the difference/ |
| 02:31.21 | Jerub | Legorol: and you can't list in it while listed for randoms. |
| 02:31.22 | WobWork | ? |
| 02:31.25 | ZorbaTHut | just to allow the backwater servers to bootstrap themselves up a bit more |
| 02:31.27 | Legorol | maybe LFR will get more love next time |
| 02:31.31 | ZorbaTHut | wobwork, the digital ether of blizzard does |
| 02:31.43 | WobWork | om nomnomnom |
| 02:32.17 | ZorbaTHut | maybe a 50% increase within the same battlegroup |
| 02:32.30 | ZorbaTHut | maybe an *extra* 100% between factions or something :D |
| 02:32.39 | Legorol | ZorbaTHut: even ifyou get cross-realm AH, at the current stage it would probably only be within battlegroup |
| 02:32.48 | ZorbaTHut | legorol, yeah, even that would be better than nothing |
| 02:32.49 | WobWork | making more of a moneysink? |
| 02:32.52 | Legorol | there are good reasons why stuff happens in-battlegroup only: those are the realms physically linked |
| 02:33.07 | ZorbaTHut | wob, not really a moneysink, just unifying the servers a bit for the sake of getting the economy under better control |
| 02:33.09 | WobWork | battlegroup only would still probably work |
| 02:33.15 | ZorbaTHut | but not *completely* for the sake of having them still be distinct |
| 02:33.26 | Legorol | btw, what's wrong with having realms split up like it is now? |
| 02:33.27 | ZorbaTHut | the moneysink part would be a bonus, but in an ideal situation it'd basically never actually occur |
| 02:33.33 | Legorol | they are separate universes, that's all fine and dandy |
| 02:33.44 | Legorol | PCT will make a bit of a dent, but other than that, it's all good |
| 02:33.48 | ZorbaTHut | legorol, the individual servers are highly exploitable, and individual servers can easily go into a positive-feedback tailspin of failure |
| 02:33.59 | ZorbaTHut | this would put a bit of a damper on that. |
| 02:34.07 | WobWork | WTB scaled PCT and PFT |
| 02:34.15 | ZorbaTHut | (PCT?) |
| 02:34.20 | Legorol | so other than size of market, what would make a 10-realm cluster more stable than a single one? |
| 02:34.27 | WobWork | Paid Character Transfer |
| 02:34.28 | Legorol | Paid Character Transfer |
| 02:34.28 | Jerub | Legorol: size of markets. |
| 02:34.30 | WobWork | (and Faction) |
| 02:34.41 | ZorbaTHut | legorol, other than an enormous factor that increases market stability, nothing :D |
| 02:34.43 | Legorol | WobWork: stop reading my mind |
| 02:34.55 | WobWork | I want them to have the fee on a sliding scale depending on faction/population balance |
| 02:35.08 | ZorbaTHut | wob, I've always wanted them to offer ingame gold bounties for swapping to crappy servers |
| 02:35.18 | Legorol | that's not that useful |
| 02:35.23 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: man, that'd be awesome. |
| 02:35.24 | Legorol | you won't be able to use your gold on a crappy realm |
| 02:35.24 | WobWork | I agree |
| 02:35.25 | ZorbaTHut | transfer to Zorba's server? 10k gold, because zorba's server fucking sucks! |
| 02:35.39 | WobWork | I'd prefer to pay less to transfer to Zorba's crappy realm =) |
| 02:35.50 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: I was seriously considering dropping $150 and transferring 10 toons from my guild to an american server over christmas. |
| 02:35.57 | WobWork | cause I can always grind more gold |
| 02:36.03 | cogwheel | i wish you could have a bulk rate to move all characters from one realm to another |
| 02:36.03 | ZorbaTHut | legorol, even crappy servers have most things available |
| 02:36.04 | Legorol | also: transfer, collect gold, pay IRL money to transfer back: tadaa, you just legally bought gold |
| 02:36.12 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: start a guild over there, do 10/25 man raids, meet people, charm them with our australian accents, it would be a guild holiday. |
| 02:36.12 | ZorbaTHut | especially since the ICC recipes are based solely on farmable things |
| 02:36.18 | Jerub | then transfer them back in feburary. |
| 02:36.28 | WobWork | cogwheel: totally |
| 02:36.34 | ZorbaTHut | jerub, hah |
| 02:36.46 | ZorbaTHut | legorol, true. of course you can already buy gold legally, so :P |
| 02:36.51 | WobWork | ZorbaTHut: you'd be surprised at how often that happens =P |
| 02:36.58 | Legorol | ZorbaTHut: lolwut? |
| 02:37.10 | ZorbaTHut | legorol, buy TCG mount card, redeem, sell mount on AH |
| 02:37.15 | ScytheBlade1 | Legorol: TCG stuff |
| 02:37.17 | ZorbaTHut | they're bind-on-equip now |
| 02:37.32 | Legorol | i knew about that, but is that a working and reliable way to buy gold? |
| 02:37.38 | Legorol | don't you need to luck out on the mount card? |
| 02:37.38 | WobWork | depends on the market |
| 02:37.42 | WobWork | nah |
| 02:37.44 | WobWork | ebay |
| 02:37.45 | ZorbaTHut | no, you buy the mount card on ebay |
| 02:37.57 | Legorol | k |
| 02:37.59 | WobWork | the 'luck' portion is if there's anyone available to -buy- it ingame |
| 02:38.02 | ZorbaTHut | I would cheerfully fork over many thousands for a rare TCG mount, the tough part is finding someone who wants to do it |
| 02:38.19 | WobWork | which is why a Buy Order would be so awesome |
| 02:38.41 | ZorbaTHut | yeah |
| 02:38.58 | ZorbaTHut | no worries about finding a buyer anymore, just look at who wants to buy a retarded chicken mount and bam $->gold |
| 02:39.39 | Legorol | what's the cheapest TCG mount and how much does it go for? (gold that is) |
| 02:40.00 | Dagmar | I don't think any of those really go for in-game gold |
| 02:40.17 | Dagmar | Usually poeple just buy 'em off ebay, or sell 'em on eBay |
| 02:40.42 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, it's tough enough to find buyers that I'm not sure there's data available |
| 02:40.55 | Legorol | gnight folks |
| 02:41.01 | WobWork | ack |
| 02:41.02 | ZorbaTHut | that said I imagine you could do a reasonably good job of estimating by just finding the standard goldbuyer prices |
| 02:41.08 | WobWork | Shopping Centre explosion in Darwin? |
| 02:41.13 | Dagmar | I'm not entirely sure if eBay gives a damn if the card you bought's code was already used when you got it |
| 02:41.21 | Dagmar | WobWork: eh? Where? |
| 02:41.24 | WobWork | http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/03/2809022.htm?section=justin |
| 02:41.54 | Dagmar | Interesting |
| 02:41.58 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, all the posted auctions say "unused", I imagine you could get a refund based on "not provided as advertised" |
| 02:42.02 | WobWork | who blows up -Darwin-?! |
| 02:42.04 | Dagmar | Someone maybe left a six of Foster's out in the sun? |
| 02:42.16 | WobWork | Dagmar: doubt it. No aussies drink that shit =P |
| 02:42.41 | Dagmar | Probably some sort of accident, not terrorism |
| 02:42.46 | WobWork | hopefully |
| 02:42.57 | WobWork | well.. hopefully in a relative way |
| 02:43.04 | Dagmar | Otehrwise, how the hell do you suck so much at terrorism that you can set off a bomb in a shopping mall and only _injure_ 12 people. |
| 02:43.13 | WobWork | could be Darwin =P |
| 02:43.23 | Dagmar | I mean, generally there's at least _one_ sure-fire fatality |
| 02:43.49 | kdtresh | there are more than 12 people in line at the starbucks within 10 feet of each other at any given time |
| 02:43.54 | Dagmar | Exactly |
| 02:44.08 | Dagmar | Maybe someone got stupid and tried to microwave their cheeze whiz or something |
| 02:44.23 | cogwheel | WobWork: who blows up darwin? Kent Hovind, venomfangx, ray comfort, ken ham, to name a few :> |
| 02:44.37 | Dagmar | Perhaps there was an actual "cleaning supplies" accident. |
| 02:45.25 | WobWork | again, could be Darwin =P |
| 02:45.40 | Dagmar | I got fifty bucks from the dept. store I worked for when I was 18 for pointing out that quite possibly, the company planoform for having bleach and ammonia, both in glass bottles, one rickety shelf above the other, might be in need of rethinking. |
| 02:46.01 | WobWork | http://www.smh.com.au/national/trolley-bomb-explosives-wheeled-into-shopping-centre-20100203-ncjg.html |
| 02:46.04 | Dagmar | Frankly, I thought they should have given me more than fifty bucks, but it was still fifty bucks for two minutes scribbling on a card. |
| 02:46.45 | Dagmar | Ah... someone with a grievance with their insurance adjustor. |
| 02:46.52 | Dagmar | "kook" explains why only 12 injuries |
| 02:48.41 | Dagmar | For those that do not yet know, ammonia + bleach == gaseous chemical warfare. It's _why_ all those bottles have the "OH JESUS DON'T MIX BATHROOM CLEANERS" warnings on the labels. |
| 02:49.05 | Dagmar | If someone had slipped in that aisle and taken out the shelf, the resulting mess would have required evacuating the store |
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| 02:51.39 | WobWork | oh yeah, and teach supermarket workers not to use bleach when cleaning ammonia spills =P |
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| 02:57.20 | Dagmar | WobWork: Seriously. Glass bottles on both counts. "planoform" is the layout by which every store in the chain stocks it's shelves |
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| 03:49.07 | Duman | hmm |
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| 04:05.59 | Adys | http://db.mmo-champion.com/latest |
| 04:06.03 | Adys | Lich king loot is up |
| 04:09.32 | Jerub | reads |
| 04:09.44 | Jerub | i wonder what my chances of ever getting any of it before cataclysm are. |
| 04:11.04 | Jerub | Adys: am i reading this right? there's only 271 and 284 loot there. |
| 04:11.16 | Jerub | Adys: meaning... lich king loot isn't going to be 251 crap on 10 man. |
| 04:11.34 | Adys | it may not be exhaustive, i dunno |
| 04:12.09 | Jerub | Oathbinder has 2 red gem slots |
| 04:12.11 | Jerub | :) |
| 04:12.26 | Jerub | the tooltips are awesome. |
| 04:13.02 | Jerub | "A grotesque skull now rests atop the blade. Etched in blood across the axe head is one word repeated ten times: SUFFER." |
| 04:14.21 | Iriel | You know, some people might consider that spoiler information |
| 04:16.51 | tekkub | SPOILER: Artie was a tauren |
| 04:16.55 | tekkub | so was Adama |
| 04:19.26 | kd3 | hrm. armory go boom |
| 04:19.57 | Adys | kd3: ? |
| 04:20.57 | kd3 | it's undergoing maintenance |
| 04:21.34 | Dagmar | I'd say it's a safe bet that if you can beat the biggest threat Azeroth has ever known (this expansion) that the loot dropped will be pretty special |
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| 05:01.13 | WobWork | http://static.funnyjunk.com/pictures/brool_story_co..jpg |
| 05:04.48 | Dagmar | Yep. |
| 05:10.00 | Adys | lol |
| 05:10.04 | Adys | I just read the pvp healing thing |
| 05:10.10 | Adys | it's amazing |
| 05:10.51 | Dagmar | Paladin tears are delicious |
| 05:11.02 | Adys | they're buffing damage mitigation in order to compensate for the extremely high buffs damage got after the huge jumps in item level each patch |
| 05:11.27 | Adys | and then turns out healing stays in front so they nerf healing with a debuff to compensate on the damage mitigation buff |
| 05:11.37 | Adys | playing wow is like watching the shadoks |
| 05:11.45 | bleeter | NSFW http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQoJvgnSj5M |
| 05:12.09 | Jerub | Adys: all they really needed to do was buff the health pool |
| 05:12.25 | Jerub | instead they're buffing/nerfing the other two things |
| 05:12.38 | Dagmar | If they did that it would be harder to two-shot people |
| 05:14.04 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 05:18.35 | Jerub | Dagmar: what about letting someone live long enough to survive a rogue's stunlock? |
| 05:18.38 | Jerub | :/ |
| 05:22.10 | Dagmar | I've no real problem with elimninating stunlocks personally. |
| 05:22.34 | Dagmar | But hey, it wouldn't be PvP if half the people couldn't kill each other without the other half having even a slim chance of fighting baclk |
| 05:22.52 | Dagmar | It's why the little bastards play on a PvP server in the first place. |
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| 05:23.09 | Dagmar | "Fair" is something that happens on PvE servers |
| 05:23.28 | Jerub | i've been trying to do some arenas, and it's like, as soon as i'm visible, the rogue stunlocks me to death and no one can stop them |
| 05:23.28 | ZorbaTHut | adys, a debuff? are they putting on a pvp-specific debuff or something? |
| 05:23.48 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: yeah, healing is less effective by 10% now or something |
| 05:23.55 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: in arenas. |
| 05:24.05 | ZorbaTHut | goddamn, will they *please* just accept that pvp and pve cannot be balanced simultaneously |
| 05:24.23 | Jerub | s/ and pve// s/simultaneously// |
| 05:24.30 | ZorbaTHut | they're fucking over many fun pve things for the sake of this pvp gremlin that they cannot fix |
| 05:24.33 | ZorbaTHut | pvp can totally be balanced |
| 05:24.35 | ZorbaTHut | look at TF2 |
| 05:24.41 | Jerub | not with the stupid shit that purpose built classes for pvp like rogues can pull. |
| 05:24.42 | ZorbaTHut | hell look at any multiplayer game |
| 05:24.54 | ZorbaTHut | then you just add equivalent stupid shit to other classes |
| 05:24.59 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: at least this debuff is only for pvp purposes. |
| 05:25.14 | kd3 | and it goes away in cataclysm |
| 05:25.17 | kd3 | hopefully |
| 05:25.20 | ZorbaTHut | jerub, sure, but us warriors got a nice nerf to some of our abilities because they're too powerful in pvp |
| 05:25.24 | Jerub | yay catacylsm |
| 05:25.29 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: yeah, saw that. |
| 05:25.32 | ZorbaTHut | they're fine in pve - in fact they're crazy fun in pve - but no can't have that, gotta pretend like pve and pvp still work the same way |
| 05:25.33 | Jerub | i'm levelling my warrior again. |
| 05:25.56 | Dagmar | In Cata they're issuing everyone either paper or scissors at random. Premium customers will get the collector's edition rock. |
| 05:26.10 | Adys | ZorbaTHut: yep |
| 05:26.24 | Adys | ZorbaTHut: in arenas, battlegrounds and wintergrasp |
| 05:27.31 | ZorbaTHut | so why not just change how abilities work in pvp already |
| 05:27.48 | Dagmar | What if you stand just outside Wintergrasp and heal over the border |
| 05:27.52 | ZorbaTHut | I mean a ton of them already *do* work differently, but why not just admit that it has to be this way so they can make both pve and pvp fun |
| 05:28.09 | ZorbaTHut | I feel like there are very few battles that occur on the border of wintergrasp :) |
| 05:28.42 | Jerub | on my server there's lots of pvp that happens in WG between battles. |
| 05:29.12 | Dagmar | I keep meaning to test a theory about WG. |
| 05:29.44 | Dagmar | Go into the room with the orb, queue for LFD. Do dungeon. Hang out inside dungeon until next match begins. |
| 05:29.47 | Dagmar | Click orb. |
| 05:29.50 | Dagmar | Giggle uncontrollably. |
| 05:30.15 | Shirik | ahahaha |
| 05:30.21 | Shirik | moment of brilliance on adult swimp |
| 05:30.37 | Adys | Dagmar: oh, you are such a genius |
| 05:30.40 | Adys | nobody thought of it before! |
| 05:30.43 | kd3 | you'll get teleported either outside the gate or to your landing spot as soon as you port in |
| 05:31.06 | Adys | that, and the orb is not clickable before the door is open. |
| 05:31.07 | Shirik | "We asked our ladies to pick out who would win the super bowl. Let's see how they did." <list of 8 teams> <points to two> "These teams didn't even scratch the playoffs" <points to another two> "And these are baseball" |
| 05:31.26 | kd3 | shirik; lol |
| 05:32.07 | Dagmar | Adys: Hey I'm just in there for the guns and EmaAmaKemalonPokemon |
| 05:34.28 | Iriel | Ding! 80! |
| 05:34.35 | Dagmar | It's about bloody time |
| 05:34.43 | Shirik | Iriel |
| 05:34.44 | Shirik | congrats |
| 05:34.51 | Shirik | it only took you forever |
| 05:34.58 | Shirik | the world has ended now, bye |
| 05:35.07 | kd3 | so how many months til the cap is 85? |
| 05:35.09 | kd3 | >.> |
| 05:35.24 | Shirik | yeah that should give Iriel another 2 years of playing to do |
| 05:35.32 | Jerub | kd3: really? |
| 05:35.32 | Iriel | this is my 3rd 80 |
| 05:35.39 | Iriel | It's just my first alliance 80 |
| 05:35.39 | Shirik | pathetic! |
| 05:35.42 | Dagmar | It's now time to engage in the new pastime... Queuing for HHoS in greens and bitching that the healer sucks |
| 05:35.50 | Shirik | oh ok |
| 05:35.55 | Dagmar | s/HH/HF/; |
| 05:35.56 | Shirik | as long as it's your first alliance one |
| 05:35.57 | Shirik | I'm ok with that |
| 05:36.03 | Shirik | all statements redacted |
| 05:36.14 | Jerub | Dagmar: but.. HoS... |
| 05:36.36 | Dagmar | Jerub: I swear every week players find a new way to disappoint me |
| 05:37.00 | Jerub | Dagmar: but. hoS.. |
| 05:37.15 | Jerub | ponders making heroics more interesting. |
| 05:37.18 | kd3 | wait, wait. you can't get greens into hof |
| 05:37.21 | Dagmar | Watching my GF on her finally def-capped DK queue for LFD, get Heroic Nexus of all places, and the shaman healer in half 25-man ToGC gear can't keep her alive |
| 05:37.35 | Jerub | I wonder how long it would take to make a new bear armor set. |
| 05:37.40 | Jerub | composed entirely of ilvl200 blues. |
| 05:37.54 | Dagmar | Maybe 4-5 hours? |
| 05:38.01 | Jerub | that'd be fun. |
| 05:38.08 | Jerub | classic gaming. |
| 05:38.09 | Jerub | :P |
| 05:38.15 | kd3 | still misses level 60 onyxia |
| 05:38.21 | kd3 | magetanking her at 80 was so much fun |
| 05:38.24 | WobWork | Jerub: leatherworking |
| 05:38.41 | Jerub | WobWork: isn't that stuff 174 ? |
| 05:38.47 | WobWork | Dagmar: is that a failure on your GF's behalf or the shamans? |
| 05:38.51 | WobWork | Jerub: oh blue |
| 05:39.03 | WobWork | yeah probably |
| 05:39.06 | Dagmar | WobWork: The shaman's. 25-manitis, clearly. |
| 05:39.07 | WobWork | the purples are 200 |
| 05:39.07 | Jerub | maybe just ilvl200 in general. purples and blues. |
| 05:39.27 | Dagmar | WobWork: I was watching the heals, or rather, the lack thereof. |
| 05:39.37 | WobWork | Dagmar: I've had shamans -not- earthshield me =( |
| 05:39.39 | WobWork | wtf is with -that-? |
| 05:39.58 | Dagmar | They perhaps expected one of the other three shamen along for the ride would do it |
| 05:40.03 | WobWork | ES is a major fraction of my healing =( |
| 05:40.18 | WobWork | pft, I always have ES up on someone |
| 05:40.21 | WobWork | even if it's dps |
| 05:40.36 | Jerub | i hate players who don't know how to play their class. |
| 05:40.41 | WobWork | ^ |
| 05:40.44 | Dagmar | Heck I had someone ask me to turn my wolf's growl off last week because they kept losing threat |
| 05:40.52 | Dagmar | I looked, growl isn't on. |
| 05:41.05 | Jerub | after my os25 the other day when we had a kitty pull 1200dps, i talked to him afterwards and discovered he was in quest greens. |
| 05:41.06 | WobWork | was cower? =) although that's not really as effective anymore |
| 05:41.14 | Dagmar | ./g Hey QuanQiang, I'm going to ahve to break the "be nice to people" rule for a moment |
| 05:41.23 | Dagmar | Cower doesn't affect threat anymore. |
| 05:41.26 | WobWork | yeah |
| 05:41.42 | Dagmar | All it does is slow down the pet and reduce the amount of damage the pet takes. |
| 05:41.53 | WobWork | my kitty dps is terrbile =( |
| 05:41.55 | WobWork | only 1kish |
| 05:42.03 | Jerub | WobWork: what level? |
| 05:42.04 | Jerub | 80? |
| 05:42.05 | WobWork | of course, I'm beartank talented =\ |
| 05:42.09 | WobWork | yeah, fresh 80 |
| 05:42.11 | Jerub | WobWork: so was he. |
| 05:42.14 | Jerub | WobWork: yeah, that makes sense. |
| 05:42.19 | WobWork | shred |
| 05:42.21 | WobWork | ^ |
| 05:42.26 | WobWork | expensive shred is expensive |
| 05:42.31 | Jerub | no shred unless talented |
| 05:42.36 | WobWork | =( |
| 05:42.36 | kd3 | looks for the john madden pic |
| 05:42.38 | WobWork | manglebot |
| 05:42.39 | Jerub | runs away |
| 05:43.25 | Dagmar | I had to check to make sure the dude didn't somehow equip his tournament lance by mistake. |
| 05:45.21 | WobWork | I've healed that way before |
| 05:45.26 | WobWork | although it's probably worse for a feral |
| 05:45.28 | WobWork | er druid |
| 05:45.42 | WobWork | since you don't have the visual clue =) |
| 05:45.57 | WobWork | except on boomkin |
| 05:47.06 | Dagmar | It's more fun when it's the tank |
| 05:47.18 | Dagmar | You can see that big old stick wavin' around, and so can everyone else |
| 05:48.02 | Dagmar | I really need to start checking people's weapon skills |
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| 06:16.18 | Adys | http://kuvaton.com/kuvei/pokemon_food.jpg |
| 06:16.24 | Adys | thats so.. cute, to an extent |
| 06:23.51 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@user-1121vmr.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 06:23.55 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 06:24.38 | *** join/#wowuidev calrik (~calrik@dsl-58-7-102-220.wa.westnet.com.au) |
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| 06:46.45 | Shirik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPh7Fj71Irk |
| 06:48.28 | Adys | http://www.notfunnycartoons.com/toondb/100202.html |
| 06:56.47 | Adys | http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/4365/27q.jpg |
| 06:56.49 | Adys | lookit |
| 06:56.53 | Adys | savage + coulton + weirdal |
| 06:58.07 | Adys | http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/9301/d7ho.jpg |
| 07:00.25 | krka | hmm... "# |
| 07:00.25 | krka | * Anomalus will now use the Create Rift ability only once, down from 3 times. |
| 07:00.31 | krka | was that a problem before? O_o |
| 07:00.37 | Adys | yea |
| 07:00.59 | Cruciformer | 'lo all |
| 07:01.22 | krka | weird, why are all the instances nerfed? |
| 07:01.56 | Adys | they arent nerfs |
| 07:01.58 | Cruciformer | I realise I can write a test for this but does P_E_W always fire when you first log in, even if your toon is in an instance? |
| 07:02.01 | Adys | they're time wastes mostly |
| 07:02.11 | Adys | yes Cruciformer, always |
| 07:02.23 | Cruciformer | Ok thanks Adys. |
| 07:02.41 | Cruciformer | I was concerned it might now becuase you get a P_L_W when you zone into an instance |
| 07:02.49 | Cruciformer | now=not |
| 07:03.54 | Cruciformer | I just got caught by FrameXML's CloseAllWindows() where a window I popuped up during PLAYER_LOGIN was being closed. |
| 07:04.06 | ZorbaTHut | honestly the mere existence of boss gimmicks in heroics are basically time wastes now |
| 07:04.19 | Adys | yep ZorbaTHut |
| 07:04.31 | Adys | bosses not scaling |
| 07:04.31 | ZorbaTHut | which is sad because I liked the gimmicks, some of them were pretty awesome |
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| 07:04.37 | ZorbaTHut | yeah |
| 07:04.38 | Adys | ya |
| 07:04.50 | Cruciformer | my pet peeve timewaste is the downtime between phases in VH |
| 07:04.52 | ZorbaTHut | I really want them to implement some kind of scaling heroics in cataclysm |
| 07:07.09 | Arrowmaster | Cruciformer: you get a PLW and a PEW every time you zone |
| 07:07.42 | Cruciformer | Arrowmaster: Ah cool thanks. That includes things like the zone on the flight between IF and SulAman? |
| 07:07.47 | Cruciformer | *Zul'Aman? |
| 07:07.53 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 07:07.59 | Arrowmaster | oh yeah |
| 07:08.15 | Cruciformer | where its switches from vanilla to tbc |
| 07:08.15 | Arrowmaster | the TBC zones and the classic zones it does |
| 07:09.27 | Cruciformer | ok cool. In that case I'd like an opinion. I've written a simple framework I use for my two mods and I am wondering if I should have the framework call a PEW handler for each addon every time it fires or just the first? |
| 07:10.42 | Cruciformer | Im guessing its not too much overhead for a mod to have: if (already_handled_pew) then return end if it doesnt want to deal with PEW each time it fires. |
| 07:10.47 | Arrowmaster | thats not really something useful for a framework |
| 07:11.49 | Cruciformer | Arrowmaster: Im trying to figure a reliable way of doing "late" initialisation, i.e once all the initial client-server stuff has happened. |
| 07:12.06 | Cruciformer | and after things like CloseAllWindows() in UIParent.lua has run, in particular. |
| 07:12.18 | Arrowmaster | OnUpdate is the only way to wait for all the client-server stuff to finish |
| 07:12.55 | Cruciformer | And do what in the onupdate handler? |
| 07:14.51 | Cruciformer | Is there some function I can call or event I should register and watch for in teh onupdate that signals all teh c<->s is done? |
| 07:14.58 | Arrowmaster | wait for the first time its called then hide the frame or nil out the onupdate |
| 07:15.13 | *** join/#wowuidev zenzio (~zenzio__@85.19.77.194) |
| 07:15.47 | Cruciformer | Ah. So if I am following you, OnUpdate() is only called for frames for the first time once everything has "settled down"? |
| 07:16.10 | Arrowmaster | its the last thing done in the login process |
| 07:16.46 | Cruciformer | Ok very cool thanks for the tip Arrowmaster I'll go experiment with that now. |
| 07:16.57 | Iriel | I dont think there's a signal that "everything is done": |
| 07:16.57 | Cruciformer | as always you are a mine of information. Many thanks. |
| 07:17.02 | Iriel | Stuff keeps loading after PEW |
| 07:17.08 | Iriel | and OnUpdate is already firing then, usually |
| 07:17.15 | Iriel | (or right after) |
| 07:17.23 | Cruciformer | Iriel: stuff like the item cache etc? |
| 07:17.27 | Iriel | It likely depends what you're looking for specifically |
| 07:18.32 | Cruciformer | Iriel: Usually its stuff like all of the guild rank info (not the full roster) or item info. |
| 07:18.47 | Iriel | If you're lucky the thing you want has an update event, you can check if it's populated, and if not, wait for the event, check again, repeat-until-loaded |
| 07:18.57 | Iriel | If you're unlucky you have to use OnUpdate to check, wait, check, wait, etc |
| 07:20.18 | Arrowmaster | for item info you cant assume any of it is valid during the loading process |
| 07:20.31 | Arrowmaster | guild stuff you should wait for the proper guild roster events |
| 07:20.46 | Cruciformer | Iriel: Dunno if u saw the start of it but what started me down this path was FrameXML closing a window Id popped up during PLAYER_LOGIN. UIParent.lua has a CloseAllWindows() that was closing my window. Popping it up after PEW was sufficiently late that CloseAllWindows() had run though. |
| 07:21.44 | Arrowmaster | Iriel: its been proven that OnUpdate is the last thing in the loading process because all the standard loading process events fire before spell tooltips get adjusted or talents |
| 07:22.05 | Iriel | It depends what you mean by 'loaded' |
| 07:22.14 | Arrowmaster | but the tooltips are updated for the talent adjusted values when checked on the first OnUpdate |
| 07:22.22 | Iriel | Certainly OnUpdate's dont start until all addon code and FrameXML code is loaded |
| 07:22.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@pool012.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 07:22.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 07:22.37 | Iriel | but the server's still feeding the client after the OnUpdate's start |
| 07:23.11 | Cruciformer | Iriel: But the first OnUpdate fires after PEW has been sent? |
| 07:23.17 | Arrowmaster | yes |
| 07:23.30 | Cruciformer | cool, thats good enough for me. |
| 07:23.51 | Cruciformer | the other stuff I can wait for its propper events, as you said Arrowmaster. |
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| 07:24.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Shadowed (~Shadowed@li89-205.members.linode.com) |
| 07:24.25 | Arrowmaster | http://forums.wowace.com/showthread.php?p=297287#post297287 |
| 07:24.30 | Arrowmaster | took him long enough to reply |
| 07:25.42 | Shadowed | didn't Cartographer get a locked repo |
| 07:25.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (~Srosh@c209017.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 07:26.01 | Arrowmaster | i swear i locked it but i found it open |
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| 07:26.56 | olafski | http://kecy.roumen.cz/jak_vznikl_ipad.jpg padum tishhh |
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| 07:30.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (~xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 07:31.42 | Arrowmaster | Xinhuan: login using the server password method, you just joined/quit/joined because you identified after joining the channel |
| 07:32.03 | Xinhuan | that's odd |
| 07:32.11 | Xinhuan | cos its not supposed to do that |
| 07:32.23 | Arrowmaster | new ircd |
| 07:32.31 | Fisker | haha |
| 07:32.33 | Fisker | confirmed |
| 07:32.40 | Fisker | battered hilt droprate is still basically the same |
| 07:32.43 | Fisker | so it was nerfed |
| 07:32.44 | Fisker | baw |
| 07:32.54 | Arrowmaster | the old method was wrong anyway, changing a persons hostmask while still in channels |
| 07:35.35 | Arrowmaster | sleeps |
| 07:42.39 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (smcn@c-174-52-39-78.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 07:46.57 | Fisker | lol wtf |
| 07:46.58 | Fisker | W |
| 07:46.58 | Fisker | ith the StarCraft II beta test fast approaching |
| 07:48.42 | Elkano | didn't you say that already half a year ago? ;) |
| 07:49.58 | Fisker | that's from the blizzard newsletter |
| 07:52.34 | Thunder_Child | $5 says i get a job right when the SC2 beta comes out |
| 07:54.49 | olafski | < ZorbaTHut> I really want them to implement some kind of scaling heroics in cataclysm <-- the rewards would also scale I assume |
| 07:55.42 | ZorbaTHut | olafski, I've thought it back and forth. They could. I'm not sure how I'd really want to implement it. |
| 07:55.44 | olafski | I wonder though.. what's the point of getting better gear if the mobs will just get stronger from it :< |
| 07:55.48 | ZorbaTHut | It's possible that only the badges would scale. |
| 07:55.57 | ZorbaTHut | I've been imagining it as being an option you set |
| 07:56.10 | olafski | they could give bosses a chance to drop extra badges and increase that chance according to how much it scales |
| 07:56.12 | ZorbaTHut | ilvl187 heroic, ilvl200 heroic, ilvl213 heroic, ilvl226 heroic? CHOOSE |
| 07:56.16 | olafski | also perhaps increase the money drops |
| 07:56.38 | olafski | imagine if people start requesting you link an achievement for a heroic ;) |
| 07:57.35 | ZorbaTHut | dude, they already do on some servers |
| 07:57.44 | ZorbaTHut | people get kicked out of heroics for only having 35k HP as a tank |
| 07:57.52 | ZorbaTHut | "lol you cant tank a heroic in ulduar gear" |
| 07:59.01 | *** join/#wowuidev svenadh (~sven@L0.moenchengladbach01.fdknet.de) |
| 07:59.03 | ZorbaTHut | (invariably this is the T9 hunter doing 800 DPS) |
| 07:59.45 | olafski | fo shizzle? >_< |
| 07:59.53 | olafski | 35k.. |
| 08:00.01 | olafski | if it's less than ~22k I might be worried a bit |
| 08:00.25 | olafski | my lvl 69 bear has 14.5k though so how hard can it be :< |
| 08:01.33 | ZorbaTHut | well, it just means you need to find a group that isn't awful :P |
| 08:01.55 | olafski | ,) |
| 08:02.13 | olafski | we could do it within a month of wotlk coming out so nowadays it should certainly be possible ;) |
| 08:02.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 08:02.22 | olafski | but yeah.. maybe scaling heroics would be nice |
| 08:02.40 | ZorbaTHut | it'd be nice to have some challenge anywhere besides raids |
| 08:02.44 | olafski | could perhaps also just have them auto scale with the gear people have |
| 08:02.45 | ZorbaTHut | HoR is the closest we get right now |
| 08:02.56 | olafski | but perhaps make it scale a bit less than the gear so you can still feel more powerful as you get better gear |
| 08:03.20 | olafski | I hear TBC heroics were much more of a challenge.. I never really got to experience that though |
| 08:03.34 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, they were pretty beastly |
| 08:03.46 | olafski | I did maybe 2-3 of them |
| 08:03.57 | olafski | just hit 80 at that time, as a healer |
| 08:04.40 | olafski | I wonder if blizzard will make accepting a lfg invite require a hardware event.. these addons that automatically accept for you sound annoying to me |
| 08:07.08 | ZorbaTHut | I sort of wish there was some actual penalty for horribly sucking in a heroic, but it's real tough to figure out how to quantize "horribly sucking" |
| 08:08.03 | olafski | *cough* karma system :P |
| 08:10.17 | olafski | bleh servers should be up, I need to be farming rep |
| 08:10.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (~Wobin@124-168-153-130.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 08:10.27 | Fisker | is it me or did they change the realmlist a bit? |
| 08:10.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
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| 08:13.25 | Fisker | http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/02/gateway-fx-desktop-rm-eng.jpg <-i don't think they understand how using a computer works |
| 08:14.05 | olafski | maybe one of the slots in that case is a very wide screen monitor |
| 08:14.32 | olafski | still I'd probably move one of the speakers to the other side |
| 08:14.50 | Wobin | well it's very pretty |
| 08:14.57 | Wobin | maybe they think that'll make up for the lack of monitor |
| 08:18.28 | Fisker | btw Wobin |
| 08:18.30 | Fisker | i troll you |
| 08:18.53 | Wobin | You're not supposed to tell me! |
| 08:22.08 | Fisker | btw Blizzard never upped the battered hilt droprate |
| 08:22.21 | olafski | is this news? |
| 08:22.28 | Fisker | yeah! |
| 08:22.37 | Fisker | now we got proof |
| 08:22.38 | Fisker | kinda |
| 08:22.42 | olafski | I figured they reduced it after the first 1-2 days, and that's it |
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| 08:23.00 | Fisker | yeah |
| 08:23.06 | olafski | where's the proof? |
| 08:23.11 | Fisker | But then they said they upped it again and dropped it from non-elites |
| 08:23.13 | Fisker | armoreh |
| 08:23.14 | olafski | hm |
| 08:23.26 | olafski | oh yeah they did say that I guess :P |
| 08:23.35 | olafski | I've never seen one drop since the first day |
| 08:23.40 | Fisker | but they didn't want to say what the new droprate was |
| 08:23.44 | olafski | I don't really do a lot of heroics though |
| 08:24.02 | Fisker | And for some reason they kept it outdated on the armory until now |
| 08:24.51 | olafski | it says 1-2% on the armory.. that seems a bit high to me |
| 08:25.14 | olafski | would mean every ~3 clears of PoS you would get one on average |
| 08:25.25 | Fisker | no :( |
| 08:25.37 | Fisker | i ran it daily for like 3 weeks on 3 characters |
| 08:25.43 | Fisker | never saw it |
| 08:25.49 | olafski | yeah, as I said it seems a bit high |
| 08:25.52 | Fisker | saw it a week ago or so in a random |
| 08:25.55 | olafski | I don't believe it's 1-2% |
| 08:26.04 | olafski | that sounds more like the old droprate ;) |
| 08:26.27 | olafski | I just bought mine.. really can't be bothered to farm heroics for something with such a droprate |
| 08:27.49 | ZorbaTHut | wowhead seems to feel it's around the 0.1% vicinity |
| 08:28.03 | olafski | that sounds more like it |
| 08:28.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Balreign (~Balreign@ANantes-552-1-60-200.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 08:29.37 | Fisker | where's my servers? |
| 08:31.52 | olafski | 1.5 hours to go! |
| 08:32.49 | Fisker | that's not good enough |
| 08:33.52 | Torhal | Fisker: pen fifteen |
| 08:40.34 | Fisker | gives Torhal a free fart |
| 08:40.36 | Fisker | for free |
| 08:43.07 | Torhal | stabs Fisker with a gummi bear. |
| 08:43.17 | Wobin | (for free) |
| 09:02.30 | Wobin | ha |
| 09:02.33 | Wobin | they fixed HoR |
| 09:02.34 | Fisker | 1+1 = 2 |
| 09:02.39 | Fisker | HoR+ |
| 09:02.40 | Fisker | ? |
| 09:02.44 | zenzio | fixed how? |
| 09:02.59 | Wobin | you know how, in the last encounter, you could travel behind Arthas |
| 09:03.06 | Wobin | He now instagibs you if you do =P |
| 09:03.18 | Fisker | why? |
| 09:03.29 | zenzio | I'd guess because you're within his range |
| 09:03.32 | Wobin | cause it was considered an exploit =P |
| 09:03.34 | zenzio | and he's not *that* strupid |
| 09:03.37 | zenzio | or stupid |
| 09:03.41 | Fisker | why would it be? |
| 09:04.02 | Fisker | You actually didn't make the encounter easier |
| 09:04.10 | Fisker | especially not since aboms spawn in the group |
| 09:04.37 | Fisker | And Lich King has never been a threat as far as his circle of doom is concerned |
| 09:04.56 | Fisker | So whatever way you took you had the same amount of time |
| 09:05.08 | Wobin | eh |
| 09:05.13 | Wobin | it meant you could stand still longer |
| 09:05.16 | Fisker | no |
| 09:05.17 | Wobin | that's about it |
| 09:05.36 | Fisker | well you can basically stand still in the same spot yeah |
| 09:05.41 | Wobin | sure, if you're not in front of him, there's no chance of him walking over you |
| 09:05.43 | olafski | abominations didn't spawn in my group when I did that tactic |
| 09:05.45 | *** join/#wowuidev widgertick (~kk@unaffiliated/widgertick) |
| 09:05.48 | olafski | didn't seem like much of an advantage though |
| 09:05.52 | Fisker | But unless holding down W is considered a skill i don't see the issue |
| 09:06.06 | Fisker | olafski did it as late as yesterday |
| 09:06.14 | Fisker | almost wiped because i never heard of the tactic |
| 09:06.25 | Fisker | so didn't know how it worked |
| 09:06.51 | Fisker | But it's retarded in any case becase at no point will the circle of doom be in range of a player if they can just stand correctly |
| 09:06.55 | Fisker | and no, not even at the end |
| 09:07.23 | Fisker | Which means the "exploit" was non-existant and purely based on the fact that people are terrible |
| 09:07.33 | widgertick | Fisker, you just offended Sarah Palin. Explain yourself or die. |
| 09:07.38 | *** join/#wowuidev b^0b (~Newbest@d154-5-63-20.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 09:07.42 | Fisker | no. |
| 09:07.49 | olafski | I'd say you certainly have some more time to kill everything compared to the normal tactic |
| 09:07.53 | widgertick | ~whalenuke Fisker |
| 09:07.54 | purl | ACTION dons her radiation cloak and tinted glasses while a highly intelligent whale named Ray precipitates critical mass for uncontrolled nuclear fission around Fisker with his mind powers. |
| 09:08.04 | olafski | I never tried the tactic before either but everybody suddenly decided to go stand to the side :/ |
| 09:08.27 | smcn | fisker that's what i thought at first too, but what makes it faster is the mobs getting to you sooner. obviously it's easy either way, but slightly easier from behind since you have more time to dps mobs if your dps is bad |
| 09:08.38 | Fisker | well except for the abominations bugging like that the mobs will run farther and farther unless you keep close to his butt |
| 09:08.45 | b^0b | So has anyone experienced the game hanging on startup when only your addon is selected, even though it worked earlier? |
| 09:08.45 | Fisker | and any case it's either the same or wose basically |
| 09:08.52 | smcn | oh i never saw that happen |
| 09:10.54 | Adys | ~lart purl |
| 09:10.54 | purl | steals adys's mojo |
| 09:11.09 | Adys | gets it back |
| 09:11.13 | Adys | why werent you here! |
| 09:11.15 | Adys | we missed you |
| 09:12.02 | Fisker | An investigation of the World of Warcraft account has produced evidence that the account has been accessed by someone who is not allowed to use it. Now you can bind your mobilephone to your World of Warcraft account for free. This will protect your account from being stolen: |
| 09:12.03 | Fisker | eee! |
| 09:12.06 | Fisker | weee! |
| 09:12.12 | Fisker | that sounds legit |
| 09:12.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Babel_fish (~WinNT@c-68-50-224-114.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 09:12.44 | zenzio | totally |
| 09:13.15 | Fisker | especially all the double spaces |
| 09:16.03 | *** join/#wowuidev amro (~amro@41.102.171.182) |
| 09:16.23 | amro | Shirik: ping |
| 09:17.50 | Adys | pong |
| 09:17.57 | Fisker | slaps amro around a bit with a large trout |
| 09:18.53 | amro | slaps Fisker around a bit with a large hammerhead |
| 09:19.33 | Fisker | so... ouch? |
| 09:19.46 | widgertick | amro: Nailed it. |
| 09:24.28 | robotusch | fisker be trolling my msn :( |
| 09:37.16 | ccox | Fisker - and the non-blizzard web site it sends you to? (yeah, I got one of those too) |
| 09:39.47 | Adys | kd3: empty eula for you too? |
| 09:46.08 | Fisker | accountmobilephone.com ccox :P |
| 09:56.00 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 10:15.20 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 10:15.49 | Wobin | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxZxYZdzpWk&NR=1 |
| 10:15.59 | Wobin | PUDDING! |
| 10:16.05 | Wobin | oh god, I fear for humanity |
| 10:16.28 | Elkano | you fear for it? so you still had hope? |
| 10:16.35 | Fisker | i need something to reenable load out of date addons |
| 10:16.39 | Fisker | stupid patches |
| 10:17.05 | olafski | I thought they only did this for major patches :< |
| 10:24.11 | *** join/#wowuidev cogwheel (~cogwheel@WoWUIDev/WoWProgramming/morlando/cogwheel) |
| 10:33.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Schnaks (~Schnaks@p5486CFED.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 10:40.24 | smcn | anyone run worldoflogs live report and getting "error registering report"? |
| 10:41.46 | smcn | nevermind |
| 10:42.16 | *** join/#wowuidev vince` (vince@adsl-99-17-205-55.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 10:54.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Teomyr (teo@HSI-KBW-085-216-123-189.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 11:01.07 | *** part/#wowuidev Movix (~Movix@mail.schiffmann.fr) |
| 11:01.30 | olafski | If you rearrange the letters in Arthas Menethil, not only do you get Matthias Lehner, you also get Trash In A Helmet. |
| 11:01.33 | olafski | giggled :( |
| 11:03.23 | Fisker | olded |
| 11:04.32 | olafski | I also like this comment: Erhm. not really. Arthas Menethil -> Matthias Lehner. In Arthas' there's an R, which isn't included in either Matthias or Lehner. |
| 11:05.32 | zenzio | ... o_O |
| 11:06.03 | Fisker | he's right olafski |
| 11:06.20 | olafski | partially |
| 11:06.25 | olafski | there's no uppercase R in Matthias Lehner |
| 11:06.32 | olafski | but then there's no uppercare R in Arthas either :( |
| 11:06.36 | olafski | uppercase.. nice typo |
| 11:06.43 | Fisker | :D |
| 11:07.19 | olafski | dumdedum.. 10 botanica runs to get exalted with shatar and scryers |
| 11:07.30 | olafski | goes quite fast :o |
| 11:07.33 | zenzio | only 10? |
| 11:07.42 | olafski | well yeah I just hit revered last night |
| 11:08.01 | zenzio | I wonder how many times I ran Botanica for the shield in BC... I hit exalted and bought the epic shield before that happened |
| 11:08.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Norsken (~xkxaxn@84-217-13-152.tn.glocalnet.net) |
| 11:08.52 | olafski | nice shield |
| 11:09.07 | Fisker | for a premium price Blizzard should let us toggle autocast on every ability |
| 11:09.38 | Fisker | i believe the reputation increases in this patch were across the board btw |
| 11:10.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (~Kaso@studio.fuzemedia.co.uk) |
| 11:11.05 | olafski | they did list specific factions didn't they? |
| 11:15.58 | olafski | wow, mailman came to bring my new game to my door and said "here's a game!" |
| 11:16.03 | olafski | usually they look at me like "what could this guy be ordering that's on a dvd from malaysia.." |
| 11:18.59 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (~airtonix@ppp118-210-144-201.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net) |
| 11:19.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Mikk (~Mikk@WoWUIDev/mikk) |
| 11:20.51 | Fisker | kill him |
| 11:21.29 | airtonix | kills fisker |
| 11:21.32 | olafski | that won't be necessary, I got what I needed |
| 11:38.03 | *** join/#wowuidev mojosdojo (~gdbzet26@p4FEFCDA3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 11:51.46 | *** join/#wowuidev amro (~amro@41.102.198.98) |
| 11:53.53 | foxlit | Hm, equipment manager choked and lost all of my sets :/ |
| 11:54.54 | widgertick | =| |
| 11:56.49 | foxlit | Although maybe that's a display issue. |
| 11:57.23 | Fisker | just relog |
| 11:57.36 | Fisker | The instance server sometimes loses it |
| 11:57.50 | *** join/#wowuidev kraftman (~kraft_@137.44.87.127) |
| 11:58.15 | foxlit | Zoning out worked. |
| 12:00.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~cide@c213-100-51-33.swipnet.se) |
| 12:00.17 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 12:04.09 | Fisker | [13:03:32][Raid] [Munarape]: few sec slack gonna get snuff |
| 12:04.10 | Fisker | sick |
| 12:05.10 | Zyn- | snus is important |
| 12:09.37 | zenzio | I'm guessing Fisker has a quite different kind of snuff in mind |
| 12:10.21 | *** join/#wowuidev kraft (~kraft_@137.44.87.127) |
| 12:16.08 | Fisker | who can blame me? |
| 12:16.22 | smcn | i'm commander shepard, and bugged saurfang is my favorite boss on the citadel |
| 12:17.41 | cbreak | bugged? |
| 12:19.45 | olafski | someone should shoot Myra Tyrngaarde |
| 12:20.47 | Fisker | cbreak runiq power generation is apparently fucked |
| 12:22.13 | cbreak | in 25, we just let the first two people with the mark die instantly, that cripples his power gen |
| 12:30.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Legorol (~legorol@cpc8-sgyl28-2-0-cust43.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 12:30.34 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Legorol] by ChanServ |
| 12:40.08 | Fisker | in 25 we just kill him before he throws mark cbreak |
| 12:40.16 | *** join/#wowuidev boshi23 (~chris@c-68-36-37-83.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 12:40.38 | cbreak | don't have the dps for that |
| 12:40.48 | Fisker | neither do we :P |
| 12:40.51 | Fisker | close though |
| 12:40.57 | Fisker | first mark around 30% |
| 12:41.02 | Fisker | as he dies he throw the second mark |
| 12:43.24 | Adys | Blood Legion downed world first lich king 10man |
| 12:43.26 | Adys | ... using Mumble, the open source VoIP software |
| 12:43.32 | Adys | The Secret of Success. |
| 12:43.42 | Fisker | old |
| 12:46.10 | Legorol | are loot tables of NPCs available in the client? |
| 12:46.17 | Fisker | no |
| 12:46.20 | Legorol | what i'm wondering is: how was the Lich King mined so quickly |
| 12:46.25 | Fisker | armory |
| 12:46.31 | Legorol | oh |
| 12:46.37 | Legorol | so nowadays it's blizz that spoils? |
| 12:46.43 | Adys | Yep |
| 12:46.45 | Fisker | technically it always is |
| 12:46.47 | Adys | has been for a while |
| 12:46.55 | Adys | http://db.mmo-champion.com/items/?armory=1 |
| 12:46.57 | Fisker | you could only mine items if someone had it |
| 12:47.00 | Adys | All the items I still haven't seen ingame |
| 12:47.03 | Adys | only seen on armory |
| 12:47.04 | Adys | ^ |
| 12:47.34 | Fisker | http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/45084/book-of-crafting-secrets/ |
| 12:47.35 | Fisker | sweet |
| 12:47.37 | Fisker | make that |
| 12:48.04 | Fisker | want moar than 500 results |
| 12:48.09 | Fisker | how do i filter heirlooms only? |
| 12:48.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (~Vilkku@dsl-tkubrasgw1-ffc7c100-46.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 12:48.14 | Adys | ?quality=7 |
| 12:48.20 | Adys | http://db.mmo-champion.com/items/?armory=1&quality=7 |
| 12:48.25 | Adys | you can just click Add filter tho :P |
| 12:48.44 | Adys | But, since I'm so nice for you fisker |
| 12:49.13 | Adys | http://db.mmo-champion.com/items/?armory=1&results_max=3000 |
| 12:55.34 | *** join/#wowuidev xqo (~xqo@195.131.251.212.customer.cdi.no) |
| 12:55.50 | xqo | what is the new interface-number? |
| 12:56.04 | Adys | 30300 |
| 12:56.09 | Adys | see topic |
| 12:56.36 | xqo | wasnt that the old one? |
| 12:56.48 | Adys | theres no toc update if theres no major api changes |
| 12:56.51 | xqo | is 30320 right? |
| 12:56.52 | xqo | oh |
| 12:56.57 | xqo | but my addons say out of date |
| 12:56.59 | xqo | durr.. |
| 12:57.04 | xqo | ill look again |
| 12:57.54 | widgertick | 30300 :P |
| 12:59.46 | Fisker | they don't do toc updates on minor versions |
| 12:59.52 | Fisker | unless it has significant changes |
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| 14:16.08 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 14:16.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (~Lopeppepp@141.222.29.18) |
| 14:16.30 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 14:16.59 | alestane | Just tried to log into WoW and got "Server Shutdown in 1:30". That didn't last long. |
| 14:17.10 | Lopeppeppy | Wootski. |
| 14:17.55 | Lopeppeppy | I knew I forgot something -- to download the patch overnight. Bah humbug. |
| 14:20.10 | *** part/#wowuidev xqo (~xqo@195.131.251.212.customer.cdi.no) |
| 14:20.51 | Fisker | owned Lopeppeppy |
| 14:20.59 | Fisker | you also forgot it was tuesday last night |
| 14:24.20 | olafski | I approve of people appending -ski to random words |
| 14:24.30 | jnwhiteh | Does anyone know were I could find a series of photos from the same vantage point throughout the day? |
| 14:24.39 | jnwhiteh | I'd like to make wallpaper that changes depending on the time of day |
| 14:24.43 | jnwhiteh | and need photos to illustrate this. |
| 14:28.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Hautian_ (~chatzilla@142.51.152.139) |
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| 14:32.50 | foxlit | Weapon skill is an innovative and game-enhancing mechanic. |
| 14:32.50 | foxlit | That is all. |
| 14:34.09 | Fisker | i agree |
| 14:34.10 | Fisker | IN HELL |
| 14:35.28 | Lopeppeppy | I could show you a time-lapse video that you could maybe screen-cap, but... |
| 14:38.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (~Vilkku@88.193.199.46) |
| 14:41.21 | *** join/#wowuidev kraftman (~kraft_@137.44.87.127) |
| 14:44.39 | jnwhiteh | Lopeppeppy: yeah, I'd lose a lot of quality on the images.. |
| 14:44.45 | jnwhiteh | maybe not if its in HD |
| 14:44.54 | Fisker | "03/02 Patch 3.3.2 - The Lich King Shall Fall" |
| 14:45.00 | Fisker | Of course spoiler tags doesn't apply to blues |
| 14:48.26 | Lopeppeppy | Nope, this one is very not HD. |
| 14:48.57 | jnwhiteh | http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/travel/watch/v5196724rXnyCCzk would work, but its not very pretty =) |
| 14:49.18 | alestane | I'd ask Shirik. |
| 14:49.30 | Fisker | of course it wasn't very HD when i spammed jnwhiteh with the harry potter endning |
| 14:49.33 | Fisker | ending* |
| 14:50.14 | jnwhiteh | Harry blows Dumbledore.. page 606 |
| 14:51.51 | mikma | blOWNED |
| 14:57.26 | *** join/#wowuidev kraftman (~kraft_@137.44.87.127) |
| 14:57.36 | olafski | did I see an explosion in that video jnwhiteh? :P |
| 14:57.42 | jnwhiteh | lol dunno |
| 14:58.58 | haste | yeh, there was an "explosion" in it |
| 14:59.00 | haste | of lights! |
| 15:01.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (~Vilkku@dsl-tkubrasgw1-ffc7c100-46.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 15:01.12 | Fisker | there was an explosion in my pants haste |
| 15:02.08 | Lopeppeppy | Fisker, take some Immodium and go to bed. |
| 15:04.17 | Fisker | wrong side Lopeppeppy |
| 15:04.18 | Fisker | :3 |
| 15:05.14 | mikma | http://kuvaton.com/kuvei/riders.jpg |
| 15:08.23 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@d86-32-145-161.cust.tele2.at) |
| 15:10.16 | haste | mikma: http://i.imgur.com/ul3mF.jpg |
| 15:14.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (~Vilkku@dsl-tkubrasgw1-ffc7c100-46.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 15:18.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@h-67-101-72-26.nycmny83.static.covad.net) |
| 15:20.15 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (~Miranda@85.108.34.95.customer.cdi.no) |
| 15:24.05 | Ackis | Lopeppeppy: rawr |
| 15:29.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Ginji (~Ginji@cc1040670-a.gorre1.fr.home.nl) |
| 15:30.01 | mikma | heh, Ong Bak 3 |
| 15:31.05 | Lopeppeppy | Rawr to you too. |
| 15:32.38 | Ackis | Lopeppeppy: I e-mailed you my resume, whenever you get a chance this week would be super duper wicked :) |
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| 15:41.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Keias (~bleh@pool-72-86-106-233.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 15:42.25 | Kraps | hey peppy, you getting snow? |
| 15:42.57 | *** join/#wowuidev amro (~amro@41.102.249.10) |
| 15:43.04 | amro | halp |
| 15:43.07 | amro | windows is being mean |
| 15:45.16 | Ackis | hates how throat infections make your breath smell like Fisker :( |
| 15:45.47 | amro | you smelled Fisker? |
| 15:45.49 | amro | that's unsanitary |
| 15:46.02 | Ackis | no my breath smells like a troll today |
| 15:46.14 | Ackis | I brushed, gargled mouthwash less than an hour ago |
| 15:46.25 | olafski | lovely innit |
| 15:46.32 | olafski | that nice salty taste |
| 15:47.43 | Ackis | unlovely :( |
| 15:47.50 | Ackis | did you get splosion man? |
| 15:47.55 | olafski | no |
| 15:48.01 | olafski | I'm not a gold member ,) |
| 15:48.06 | Ackis | =/ |
| 15:48.10 | olafski | I got the Chime demo though |
| 15:48.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper (~Admin@dslb-084-056-250-025.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:48.12 | olafski | and MUA2 arrived today |
| 15:48.21 | *** join/#wowuidev TheDude2 (~joe@24-241-226-252.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) |
| 15:48.29 | Arrowmaster | i tried the demo of splosion man when it came out and didnt like it |
| 15:48.45 | Arrowmaster | got stuck somewhere |
| 15:48.47 | olafski | it was kind of ok.. but too simple for my tastes |
| 15:49.36 | Ackis | I keep on getting people inviting me to xbox parties who I don't know :( |
| 15:49.37 | Ackis | really annoying |
| 15:49.48 | Ackis | like we friends each other to play a game to boost/etc |
| 15:49.56 | Ackis | doesn't mean I want to be in their party all the time |
| 15:50.02 | olafski | this is why I like silver membership ;) |
| 15:54.31 | Arrowmaster | i never get party invites, although i dont really boost that much |
| 15:54.51 | olafski | boosting bleh ;p |
| 15:55.19 | olafski | though I would like to get my 100 wins in mortal kombat 3 someday.. people I got matched against online are insane |
| 15:55.55 | Arrowmaster | Ackis: do you have dash of destruction? free arcade game |
| 15:56.11 | Ackis | Arrowmaster: yeah, was easy and terrible at the same time :( |
| 15:56.19 | Ackis | totem ball is also free but you need a cam to play |
| 15:56.30 | Arrowmaster | boost me the multiplayer achivement |
| 15:56.46 | Ackis | it's not multiplayer on live, its local multiplayer |
| 15:57.03 | Arrowmaster | really? |
| 15:57.09 | Ackis | yeah you need to play with yourself heh |
| 15:57.20 | Ackis | i has a meeting for 2-3 hours i'll be back then |
| 15:59.03 | Arrowmaster | so ive got 111GB free on my 250GB xbox360 |
| 15:59.30 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 15:59.30 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
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| 16:01.10 | olafski | :( |
| 16:01.20 | Kraps | y so :( |
| 16:01.39 | olafski | I want 250gb too :( |
| 16:01.52 | olafski | but I'm not buying a new console just for the drive |
| 16:02.16 | Kraps | lol l2money nub |
| 16:03.02 | olafski | I still find it unlikely that I would buy such a thing |
| 16:03.18 | olafski | maybe with a shitload of money.. but not with "more" money anytime soon :) |
| 16:04.54 | *** join/#wowuidev kraftman (~kraft_@137.44.87.127) |
| 19:15.04 | *** join/#wowuidev purl (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 19:15.04 | *** topic/#wowuidev is http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ | 3.3.x ToC: 30300 | #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting | Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant! |
| 19:15.15 | Lopeppeppy | ~botsnack |
| 19:15.15 | purl | aw, gee, Lopeppeppy |
| 19:15.21 | Lopeppeppy | Welcome back, purl. |
| 19:15.34 | Dagmar | Heh. I figured someone would put it on YouTube, and they did |
| 19:15.35 | nevcairiel | I dunno, while they were seperated, usually one was trying to get back together, but the other build a whole plot of his own, i didnt think it was all that repetetive |
| 19:15.53 | Kraps | Dagmar: no spoilers pl0x |
| 19:16.05 | Dagmar | NOt going to. This is why I asked. |
| 19:16.13 | Lopeppeppy | The reason they had plot was because they were driven apart, it was his "hand of god" to make things happen. Try an earthquake or something? |
| 19:18.32 | nevcairiel | shrug, it worked for me, i liked the story and the characters, and it kept me reading for .. i dunno, when did i get the first one o.O |
| 19:19.19 | nevcairiel | september to now |
| 19:19.36 | alestane | ~Lopeppeppy++ |
| 19:20.45 | Kraps | Dagmar: did you finish the game already? |
| 19:20.51 | Dagmar | nope. |
| 19:20.59 | Dagmar | THe previous claims that I was 50% through already were bullshit |
| 19:21.07 | Dagmar | The damn thing is looon |
| 19:21.09 | Dagmar | g. |
| 19:21.23 | Kraps | are you doing the side missions? |
| 19:21.25 | Dagmar | Claudia Black *does* have a voice role in it tho |
| 19:21.56 | Dagmar | Kraps: Loyalty missions yes. Hastily charting galaxies, yes. Side missions per se, I don't know much about |
| 19:22.36 | Kraps | does the paragon vs renegade thing really matter? |
| 19:22.41 | Dagmar | I finally got a sniper rifle, and it's had the expected result. No one is safe from me |
| 19:22.48 | Kraps | because i'm pretty even on that |
| 19:22.55 | Dagmar | Kraps: Sometimes. |
| 19:22.57 | Lopeppeppy | alestane, I get good karmas? |
| 19:23.03 | Kraps | a bit more renegade |
| 19:23.03 | Dagmar | I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. |
| 19:23.05 | alestane | Lopeppeppy: You does. |
| 19:23.20 | Dagmar | Mainly it seems like it gives you opportunities to interrupt FMV sequences |
| 19:23.36 | Dagmar | *occasionally* it'll open up new dialog selections outright |
| 19:23.38 | Lopeppeppy | Awwww. My blushes. |
| 19:23.39 | Kraps | fmv? |
| 19:23.43 | Dagmar | full motion video |
| 19:24.21 | Kraps | yeah, i had 1 paragon and 2 renegade things |
| 19:24.33 | Dagmar | Like, if you've some points in renegade, there's a good chance a flashing mouse icon might appear when it would be a good time to hit someone in the mouth to shut them the hell up |
| 19:25.00 | Dagmar | Lots and lots of stuff puts points into both those meters, so actually I'm rather sure they're not mutually exclusive |
| 19:25.03 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 19:26.16 | Kraps | they arent, which was a "different" thing about ME |
| 19:26.52 | Kraps | you're not BAD or GOOD, you can be inbetween |
| 19:27.22 | Dagmar | Well, paradon and renegade aren't exactly "good" and "bad". It's way more like the lawful/chaotic system from D&D |
| 19:27.33 | Dagmar | er... s/paradon/paragon/; |
| 19:27.49 | Kraps | you can get both types in one conversation even |
| 19:28.36 | alestane | lua> return "\72\105\100\101" |
| 19:28.43 | lua_bot | alestane: Hide |
| 19:28.58 | alestane | Yeah, I suspected that would be something evillish. |
| 19:30.44 | ckknight | is there a way to figure out if you're on a US realm or an EU realm and such? |
| 19:30.49 | nicoli_s | hey Adys: any new .wdb updates with yesterdays patch? |
| 19:31.54 | Adys | not in structures |
| 19:33.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraftman (~kraft@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust25.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 19:33.43 | nicoli_s | mmk |
| 19:33.45 | *** join/#wowuidev amro (~amro@41.102.168.77) |
| 19:35.40 | Adys | Amro get back here |
| 19:35.54 | Ackis | lua> return "\80\101\110\105\115" |
| 19:35.55 | lua_bot | Ackis: Penis |
| 19:35.58 | Ackis | hehehehe |
| 19:36.15 | Ackis | thank you alestane |
| 19:36.51 | alestane | Ackis: You can thank these people, I want nothing to do with it. |
| 19:36.52 | alestane | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=22748762944&sid=1 |
| 19:37.35 | Ackis | no, it's all you |
| 19:37.40 | Kraps | what language is that code? |
| 19:37.59 | alestane | Kraps: Which code? |
| 19:38.10 | durcyn | ....ascii |
| 19:38.11 | Kraps | these numbers |
| 19:38.34 | Ackis | Kraps: English |
| 19:38.35 | alestane | They're decimal representations of bytecode, I believe. |
| 19:38.43 | Dagmar | I love it |
| 19:38.57 | Dagmar | It makey all the buttons go 'way |
| 19:39.08 | Kraps | each number corresponds to a letter i guess? |
| 19:39.18 | alestane | In Lua, a \### code is translated into the corresponding character. |
| 19:39.21 | durcyn | oh, for fuck sake. ASCII, look it up. |
| 19:39.25 | Dagmar | Surely you've seen that type of routine before. |
| 19:39.46 | Dagmar | Serves the kid right for refusing to even attempt to read the docs |
| 19:40.19 | alestane | Well, right, that part that drives me nuts is the "Why should I learn when I can just bug people" attitude. |
| 19:40.20 | Kraps | thinks he made everyone mad at him |
| 19:40.45 | Dagmar | Nope |
| 19:40.47 | Ackis | not me Kraps |
| 19:40.52 | durcyn | i'm furious |
| 19:40.56 | Ackis | I was mad at you before |
| 19:41.05 | Kraps | you were? |
| 19:41.17 | Ackis | no |
| 19:41.28 | Ackis | I'm just messing with you |
| 19:41.29 | Kraps | got any ME2 spoilers? |
| 19:41.32 | Ackis | yup |
| 19:41.32 | durcyn | for atonement, write a ten page essay on ASCII vs EBCDIC, why endian-ness mattered once upon a time, and which encoding is superior |
| 19:41.36 | Kraps | DONT ANSWER THAT |
| 19:41.38 | Ackis | the ship sinks in the end |
| 19:41.41 | durcyn | you'll be graded harshly on grammar. |
| 19:41.43 | Dagmar | alestane: I'm sure in a bit the kid will post back a big "I R ANGREE" message, which is pretty much exactly why people should read and not just copypasta anything some random person on the forum tells them |
| 19:41.58 | Dagmar | FKCU EBCDIC |
| 19:42.28 | Lopeppeppy | O S M R. C D E D B D feet. |
| 19:42.31 | Lopeppeppy | M R dux. |
| 19:42.31 | Kraps | durcyn: i'll get right on that |
| 19:42.32 | Dagmar | I was around when EBCDIC was still in common use and I still think it's just plain broken |
| 19:42.38 | Kraps | runs |
| 19:43.53 | Seerah | is still waiting on gift cards to come back in stock on wowace... :( :( Gonna lose the resolve to get the treadmill and lose weight... :( |
| 19:44.01 | Ackis | so I punched my fiance in the face last night, apparently I rolled over and clocked her in the face :) |
| 19:44.03 | Seerah | *ahem* Kaelten ^^^ |
| 19:44.13 | Dagmar | The only thing I can figure is that they allowed a secretary to define somehting based on a more artistic arrangement of letters on a freaking paper card |
| 19:44.14 | Ackis | Seerah: they have $10 ones in, the rest should be here by the end of the week |
| 19:44.14 | durcyn | Dagmar: you haven't lived until you've had to pull files off of reel-to-rell tapes and do byte-order conversions on 'em |
| 19:44.18 | durcyn | reel* |
| 19:44.19 | Seerah | Ackis: did Chantelle punch you back? :p |
| 19:44.32 | Ackis | Seerah: nah just went wtf then fell asleep again lol |
| 19:44.34 | Dagmar | durcyn: I've actually done that, although it was a spare-time project |
| 19:44.42 | Seerah | Ackis: yeah, I almost did that, but I'm a) too nice and b) too lazy to get 38 of them :) |
| 19:44.50 | alestane | Lopeppeppy: CDB. DBSABZB. |
| 19:45.08 | durcyn | Dagmar: one of our sales droids actually told a customer we'd do it willingly. in the year 2005, no less. |
| 19:45.29 | Seerah | Ackis: but thank you :) I've been checking the store for a month ;) |
| 19:45.30 | Lopeppeppy | Very busy. |
| 19:45.31 | Dagmar | This is why you beat the salesmen the moment they start trying to think. |
| 19:45.32 | durcyn | i still fondly remember the day we office-spaced that 2920 drive after they went away |
| 19:45.49 | Dagmar | They're just there to look pretty and recite the list of offered services, not make up newer, frequently impossible ones. |
| 19:45.52 | durcyn | at least it as vacuum-loading, thank fuck |
| 19:46.12 | Dagmar | Yeah I did it in freakin 1991 and it was obsolete crap then |
| 19:46.27 | Ackis | Seerah: did you see my facebook status about the stove? |
| 19:46.33 | Seerah | no, I didn't |
| 19:46.49 | Ackis | you're missing out on more Chantelle lulz :) |
| 19:46.50 | Dagmar | ...although horrifyingly enough there was some EDI equipment still using EBCDIC even back in freakin' 2000 |
| 19:46.56 | Seerah | I see that now :) |
| 19:47.03 | Dagmar | I had to tank someone's project over it, in fact. |
| 19:47.27 | durcyn | Dagmar: i don't work there anymore, but i'm pretty sure they're stilll getting mainframe dumps on 3490 carts. it was like working in the stone ages. |
| 19:47.27 | Dagmar | They were trying to punt encrypted data over a 7-bit link. |
| 19:47.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Mysticell (~nick@cpe-65-189-204-138.neo.res.rr.com) |
| 19:47.46 | Dagmar | durcyn: lol we just degaussed about 300 of those |
| 19:48.25 | Dagmar | it took us almost a year to get someone to own up to the fact that the equipment to read them is long dead, there's nowhere they'll probably ever be able to get more of it, and all those damn carts are just taking up space in the datacenter for no reason |
| 19:48.41 | Dagmar | No one cares how much we paid people in 1970. |
| 19:49.03 | Dagmar | The people that do care, I'm sure have this information on paper. |
| 19:50.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (~Kaso@host81-152-71-62.range81-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:50.53 | Dagmar | Side note, it's amazing that people are unwilling to find someone to audit and sign off on uudecode/uuencode |
| 19:51.52 | Dagmar | We couldn't sent encrypted records across this 7-bit link because the remote end was ebcdic, and the encryption program was just making 8-bit data. They were screwed becasue it was going to drop bits, and they didn't even know it |
| 19:52.10 | Dagmar | They just knew their data transfers stopped when something in between noticed the EOF character in ASCII. |
| 19:52.25 | Dagmar | ...or at least, they knew it was stopping at random times |
| 19:53.41 | Lopeppeppy | Compiling... gods I hate the catalog search function. |
| 19:56.32 | Seerah | is anyone else having problems with battle.net and Chrome? I can't log in to the forums or anywhere, because battle.net fails to load and the tab goes nowhere (even causing other tabs for the WoW site to freeze) |
| 19:57.02 | kd3 | blocking js? |
| 19:57.04 | Ackis | you typed all that and what I got out of it was: "battle.net fails" |
| 19:58.05 | Seerah | kd3: nope |
| 19:58.15 | durcyn | worked for me on the 4.0 dev channel last week, Seerah, what version are you on? |
| 19:58.50 | Seerah | 4.0.249.78 |
| 19:59.28 | Seerah | the main battle.net site loads when I go there directly, but trying to log in even to manage my account makes the tab unresponsive |
| 19:59.35 | Seerah | works in FF though :( |
| 19:59.44 | durcyn | tried 5? |
| 19:59.48 | Seerah | no |
| 20:00.02 | Seerah | there's a 5? ;p |
| 20:00.06 | durcyn | latest dev channel builds are usually less shitty in my experience |
| 20:00.15 | durcyn | yeah, they just promoted 3 to stable, so beta and dev got bumps too |
| 20:00.18 | Seerah | it worked last week for me |
| 20:00.55 | durcyn | and you know how blizzard likes to change the site around |
| 20:01.47 | Kraps | i got a really odd error yesterday when i went to the forums |
| 20:02.01 | Kraps | cant remember what it was |
| 20:02.59 | Seerah | durcyn: is 5 from the "try the latest BETA version" link? doesn't say which version that is... |
| 20:03.17 | durcyn | nah, dev channel from chromium.org |
| 20:03.23 | Seerah | oh wait, that may be what I have installed since I was trying out the extensions |
| 20:03.25 | durcyn | beta should be the 4 series you already have |
| 20:03.32 | Seerah | yeah |
| 20:03.58 | Ackis | Kraps: are you at the part in ME2 when shepard has to kill the illusive man? |
| 20:04.04 | Ackis | whistles innocently. |
| 20:04.21 | durcyn | Ackis: martin sheen dies like a bitch. such terrible voice acting. |
| 20:04.23 | Kraps | DIE IN A FIRE |
| 20:04.48 | durcyn | speaking of voice acting |
| 20:04.53 | Ackis | Kraps: no, you shoot him, he gets wounded and falls to his death, there is no fire involved |
| 20:04.53 | Seerah | durcyn: ah, that's why I never try the Chromium build - you have to compile it yourself, no? |
| 20:05.04 | Kraps | LAWL |
| 20:05.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Bibi (~Bibi@AVelizy-151-1-28-11.w82-124.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 20:05.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Bibi (~Bibi@unaffiliated/bibi) |
| 20:05.17 | nevcairiel | isnt there a tool to simply switch your install between release, beta and ev? |
| 20:05.18 | durcyn | Seerah: no, they changed how the dev channel is distributed, the chrome dev binaries are hosted there now |
| 20:05.19 | nevcairiel | *dev |
| 20:05.30 | durcyn | release and beta are still on google.com |
| 20:05.32 | Kaelten | Seerah: they're incoming, I promise! |
| 20:05.40 | Seerah | Kaelten: :) |
| 20:06.00 | durcyn | anyway, as i was saying, the voice acting in Star Trek Online makes wow look like a frigging hollywood blockbuster |
| 20:06.08 | Ackis | wow you're so polite with her Kaelten, I just got a "huh?" :P |
| 20:06.09 | Kaelten | they've been ordered, we're waiting on amazon |
| 20:06.14 | Dagmar | That would be the Cryptic influence |
| 20:06.16 | Kaelten | Ackis: huh? |
| 20:06.20 | Ackis | lol |
| 20:06.26 | Dagmar | You should have tried Champions Online. |
| 20:06.30 | Kaelten | besides, Seerah's cuter than you are. |
| 20:06.34 | Seerah | Ackis: Kaelten likes me :) |
| 20:06.35 | Dagmar | It's voice acting made me want to rip my ears off. |
| 20:06.46 | Ackis | Kaelten: I have Chantelle convinced that you're my gay lover |
| 20:07.04 | Kaelten | Ackis: Huh? |
| 20:07.11 | Ackis | :P |
| 20:07.18 | Kaelten | buying a house is stressful |
| 20:07.30 | Ackis | moving is more stressful |
| 20:07.35 | Kaelten | I don't know about that |
| 20:07.50 | Kaelten | I'm trying to balance shit from many places. |
| 20:08.52 | Kaelten | but if all goes well I'll start seeing my house being built next week |
| 20:08.59 | Ackis | nice |
| 20:09.12 | Seerah | yay |
| 20:09.27 | Seerah | durcyn: apparently I'm blind - I don't see where there's a binary download. :) |
| 20:09.41 | Kaelten | :D |
| 20:09.57 | Lopeppeppy | Woot, Kaelten! |
| 20:10.01 | Lopeppeppy | Home is good to have, ya. |
| 20:10.06 | *** join/#wowuidev isman (~drag@mlr78-3-88-162-68-235.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:10.11 | nicoli_s | noooo repo is dead! |
| 20:10.15 | Kaelten | I'm excited, but I can't wait for it to be over? |
| 20:10.19 | Kaelten | nicoli_s: ? |
| 20:10.19 | Lopeppeppy | Ackis, ping email! |
| 20:10.30 | Lopeppeppy | kaelten, you own a house. It will never be over. |
| 20:10.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 20:10.34 | nevcairiel | !g chrome dev channel download |
| 20:10.35 | batbot | nevcairiel: Early Access Release Channels (The Chromium Projects) <http://dev.chromium.org/getting-involved/dev-channel> |
| 20:10.37 | nicoli_s | he lives! |
| 20:10.42 | nevcairiel | Seerah: ^ |
| 20:11.16 | NeoTron | Ackis: I can't say I recall doing that |
| 20:11.18 | Kaelten | Lopeppeppy: the buying of the house will be over soon enough |
| 20:11.20 | Seerah | thankd you, nev :) |
| 20:12.05 | nicoli_s | lemme know when you have a housewarming party kaelten, i wanna come over and find some structural flaws in your house :P |
| 20:12.27 | Kaelten | nicoli_s: cool |
| 20:12.38 | Kaelten | nicoli_s: have a 2 year warrenty on all structure issues, so bring it on |
| 20:12.42 | NeoTron | Ackis: curious, how do you manage to shoot him as a hologram? |
| 20:13.04 | Ackis | NeoTron: you meet him in person of course! |
| 20:13.10 | Ackis | Lopeppeppy: readinginging it noooww :D |
| 20:13.20 | *** join/#wowuidev amro_ (~amro@41.102.237.168) |
| 20:13.20 | nevcairiel | doesnt building a house usually take quite a while? or wait .. americans just patch together those dry-wall'ed pre-built houses, right? =P |
| 20:13.36 | Dagmar | Not unless they're at the trailer park |
| 20:13.44 | NeoTron | Ackis: do you? like what path do you take for that to happen? leave the collector base up? |
| 20:13.49 | Dagmar | Those things attract tornadoes |
| 20:13.52 | NeoTron | or are you just pulling legs etc |
| 20:13.55 | nicoli_s | this is huntsville, houses get thrown together in 2 weeks tops |
| 20:14.05 | Dagmar | Easy access to cheap mexicans |
| 20:14.10 | Kaelten | nevcairiel: 72 days apparently |
| 20:14.22 | Lopeppeppy | Kaelten dear, then you OWN it and have to maintain it. It never ends. |
| 20:14.43 | Kaelten | Lopeppeppy: one thing at a time :P |
| 20:16.12 | cogwheel | so the tank (dk) and the healer (pally) started the final boss fight before the DPS had caught up, locking us out. They succeeded >< |
| 20:16.31 | alestane | Old Kingdom? |
| 20:16.36 | nevcairiel | slow dps is slow |
| 20:16.48 | Dagmar | Hah |
| 20:16.54 | cogwheel | HoS |
| 20:17.07 | NightHawkTheSane | o_0 you can lock someone out of the final fight of HoS? |
| 20:17.17 | Dagmar | How is that even possible? |
| 20:17.25 | cogwheel | the doors of the final room close behind you |
| 20:17.26 | alestane | You have to unlock a door to GET to the final boss. |
| 20:17.38 | NightHawkTheSane | huh |
| 20:18.01 | alestane | Death & Decay + Consecrate FTW, I'm guessing. |
| 20:18.30 | nevcairiel | but seriously, how slow can the dps be :P |
| 20:18.52 | cogwheel | took about 3 mins |
| 20:19.08 | Dagmar | Well, that boss probably needs buffing anyway |
| 20:19.12 | cogwheel | oh you mean walking? |
| 20:19.16 | NightHawkTheSane | nah |
| 20:19.22 | nevcairiel | dont you even have to wait for bran to unlock the door and all that? |
| 20:19.26 | NightHawkTheSane | that boss is fine. |
| 20:19.38 | Dagmar | We've been unable to get the oozes acheievement because just standing around consecrating seems to kill him before the special ones spawn |
| 20:19.50 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: er, so don't consecrate? |
| 20:20.02 | Dagmar | You try telling a paladin that some time |
| 20:20.10 | NightHawkTheSane | get a non-shitty paladin |
| 20:20.18 | NightHawkTheSane | that achievement is -really- easy. |
| 20:20.24 | Dagmar | No our paladin is too geared apparently |
| 20:20.36 | NeoTron | so geared he can't avoid using consecrate? |
| 20:20.37 | Dagmar | He killed the dude with auto and consecrate |
| 20:20.41 | NightHawkTheSane | burn him to 40-50%, then -stop- dps, kill non-ooze adds, wait for five iron sludges to form, kill them, done and done. |
| 20:21.04 | Dagmar | Oh they form up from the oozes? |
| 20:21.05 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: then he's an idiot. :P |
| 20:21.08 | NightHawkTheSane | er, yeah |
| 20:21.18 | Dagmar | We figured they'd eventually just spawn. heh |
| 20:21.23 | NightHawkTheSane | the oozes start spawning at ~50%, and they join up (i think 2x?) to make the iron sludges |
| 20:22.30 | Dagmar | Yeah we were pretty much standing there zapping anything that wasn't an iron sludge |
| 20:22.50 | Dagmar | "Dwarf! *zap*. 'nother dwarf... *zap*. Oooze. *zap." |
| 20:25.52 | Seerah | so it turns out that this extension was causing the problem with loading that link... weird.... https://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/nnkcfbiefgdaceeplickkkmifpicbpcc |
| 20:27.00 | Seerah | should have tried disabling those first, but I didn't see a logical reason why one of the few extensions I installed would interfere with that one site. |
| 20:31.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (~Vilkku@dsl-tkubrasgw1-ffc7c100-46.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 20:31.17 | mikma | haste: http://www.geekologie.com/2010/02/wtf_japan_seriously_crying_gir.php |
| 20:35.22 | olafski | is there an instance where I can grind Sha'Tar rep that also gives something useful for some other faction? this other faction would preferrably not be the scryers since I just got those exalted ;p |
| 20:35.53 | nevcairiel | can you even grind shatar short of the tempest keep instances? |
| 20:36.37 | nevcairiel | They are mostly humanoids in there, so they only drop scryer or aldor badges |
| 20:36.41 | olafski | that's what I did |
| 20:36.47 | olafski | guess I better find the one that drops aldor badges :) |
| 20:36.59 | olafski | did botanica so far, about 2400 rep with both shatar and scryers per run (normal) |
| 20:38.55 | NightHawkTheSane | I think some of the mobs in arcatraz drop aldor stuff. |
| 20:39.06 | NightHawkTheSane | not really sure, though |
| 20:39.14 | Dagmar | Damn |
| 20:39.18 | Dagmar | I completely forgot about that place |
| 20:39.31 | nevcairiel | isnt aldor stuff mostly droped by demons? |
| 20:39.34 | nevcairiel | that would be alcatraz |
| 20:39.35 | NightHawkTheSane | ^ |
| 20:39.41 | Dagmar | I may grab some guildies and go pound that place tonight |
| 20:40.20 | Dagmar | nev: Alcatraz has shitty drops |
| 20:40.45 | Dagmar | Arcatraz, much better. |
| 20:41.06 | nevcairiel | wuteva |
| 20:41.26 | Dagmar | Plus the aggro table in Alcatraz is horrible. Kill one mob and the whole damn place aggros |
| 20:42.29 | b^0b | Is there any sort of built in timer function for lua? |
| 20:43.04 | alestane | You mean like a "call this after x amount of time" capability? |
| 20:43.10 | alestane | Not built into Lua, no. |
| 20:44.01 | b^0b | k. My addon does not properly build data all the time so I want to put a short wait in to hopefully correct this. |
| 20:44.50 | alestane | Usuaully that indicates that you're doing something at the wrong point in the event stream. |
| 20:45.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan (~pancake@cpe-174-098-002-214.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 20:46.03 | b^0b | Hmm. If I /reload the info displays correctly. |
| 20:48.24 | cogwheel | armory down? |
| 20:49.16 | alestane | What data are you trying to build, and when? |
| 20:50.12 | b^0b | I am building tables that check rep levels right. The fuctions run at the bottom, after the script is parsed. |
| 20:50.28 | b^0b | Right after that I build some buttons based on the table. |
| 20:50.37 | alestane | You may need to wait until the VARIABLES_LOADED event. |
| 20:50.50 | b^0b | Excellent, thank you. I will try that. |
| 20:51.25 | alestane | Or possibly PLAYER_ENTERING_WORLD. Rep data is stored on the server and may not be available to the client during the interface load process. |
| 20:51.47 | alestane | But there should exist some event which won't fire before that information is loaded. |
| 20:52.31 | b^0b | Good to know. Thank yo.u |
| 21:00.57 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR (~dwsr@unaffiliated/dwsr) |
| 21:02.17 | DWSR | hey all |
| 21:02.29 | DWSR | Anyone here that can confirm all of the DLC that's available for ME2? |
| 21:02.30 | Fisker | slaps DWSR around a bit with a large trout |
| 21:03.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Pneumatus^ (~WiN@81.174.255.129) |
| 21:04.11 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (smcn@c-174-52-39-78.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:05.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (~Vilkku@88.193.199.46) |
| 21:06.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (~chatzilla@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 21:11.47 | Ackis | DWSR: collector armor/gun, inferno, the othter armor type, blood dragon, the incisor riffle, 3 helmets, one singularity generator, zaid or w/e his name is and the crash site |
| 21:12.46 | Arrowmaster | incisor rifle, 3 helmets, and singularity generator, what are those from? |
| 21:13.16 | Ackis | incisor == digital edition |
| 21:13.21 | durcyn | incisor rifle is a deluxe edition, helmets are a dr peper promotion |
| 21:13.22 | Ackis | 3 helmets == dr pepper codes |
| 21:13.25 | durcyn | damn you |
| 21:13.38 | Ackis | singularity generator is gamestop pre-order w/ the armour |
| 21:13.59 | Arrowmaster | ok you ment that gun |
| 21:14.17 | Arrowmaster | so incisor rifle is PC only? |
| 21:14.29 | Ackis | i'm not 100% sure Arrowmaster |
| 21:14.44 | Ackis | you could DL it for xbox but that was removed after a few hours |
| 21:14.48 | Arrowmaster | well the code comes from pc version |
| 21:14.49 | durcyn | what's the singularity generator do? i ordered it on steam like a real person |
| 21:14.51 | Ackis | not sure if you can get it legit or not |
| 21:14.58 | Ackis | durcyn: creates a blackhole |
| 21:15.09 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 21:15.16 | DWSR | Steam gives you the collector armor, afaik. |
| 21:15.16 | durcyn | sounds kind of silly if you ask me. |
| 21:15.21 | Ackis | I was like "ohh shiny" then went back to the rocket armour |
| 21:15.29 | nevcairiel | creating black holes isnt good as a weapon, you know |
| 21:15.30 | Ackis | DWSR: only if you get the delxue edition |
| 21:15.39 | Ackis | rocket armour == rocket weapon :P |
| 21:16.11 | Ackis | there's also an announcement of a new DLC |
| 21:16.17 | Ackis | they didn't say what it was |
| 21:16.24 | DWSR | The DLC I have is the Collector Armor + AR, Incisor SR, Inferno Armor, Normandy Crash, Zaeed. |
| 21:16.28 | *** join/#wowuidev nevcairiel (quasselcor@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/nevcairiel) |
| 21:16.33 | Shirik | Ackis |
| 21:16.34 | Shirik | icu |
| 21:16.35 | DWSR | Collector Armor + AR is Steam Pre-order + DDE, iirc. |
| 21:16.47 | Ackis | and they've said the hammerhead and some weapons will be more DLC through the network |
| 21:16.59 | DWSR | Yeah, I'm hoping to get a few more fucking assault rifles. |
| 21:16.59 | Arrowmaster | no the collector armor and rifle is for anybody that got the collectors edition |
| 21:17.14 | DWSR | Arrowmaster: : Ah, so the Incisor is PC and the Inferno is pre-order? |
| 21:17.33 | Arrowmaster | incisor is steam |
| 21:18.31 | Arrowmaster | inferno is the 'everybody but gamestop' preorder, did you get that with steam? |
| 21:18.36 | DWSR | yes |
| 21:18.42 | DWSR | I pre-ordered. |
| 21:18.46 | Arrowmaster | terminus is gamestop |
| 21:19.04 | Ackis | http://i49.tinypic.com/107rvy9.jpg <-- all DLC except incisor |
| 21:19.38 | DWSR | Can you just DL the DLC to your game? |
| 21:19.43 | DWSR | Even if it's from someone else's account? |
| 21:19.47 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 21:19.57 | Arrowmaster | not sure about pc |
| 21:20.19 | DWSR | Someone upload a DLC installer for me so I can try? |
| 21:20.50 | Arrowmaster | but im guessing its account locked on 360, even though all DLC is supposed to be system wide on whatever xbox its locked to and account locked on any consoles its not locked to |
| 21:21.18 | Arrowmaster | since its EA and they are fucking with the DLC stuff to avoid microsofts download system |
| 21:21.59 | Ackis | yeah they made the pre-order/etc stuff platform independent for ME2 as well which was nice, they fucked the dog in DA:O IMO |
| 21:22.21 | Arrowmaster | they fucked it all up for all of them |
| 21:22.58 | Arrowmaster | being required to make an account on a website for content on a console that does not have a web browser builtin is fucking wrong |
| 21:23.00 | Dagmar | I suspect that's because their primary motive isn't really to ship DLCs |
| 21:23.07 | Arrowmaster | no its not |
| 21:23.12 | Dagmar | It's to have a way to bind the copy of the game to something non-transferable. |
| 21:23.17 | Arrowmaster | its to be EA, total asshats |
| 21:23.21 | Dagmar | ...like one's EA Games account. |
| 21:23.23 | durcyn | DWSR: i don't feeel like turning on a web server, gimme a place to put it |
| 21:23.35 | Fisker | no it's not Arrowmaster |
| 21:23.37 | Dagmar | They don't care if they make a bigger profit, just as long as they can screw the customer. |
| 21:23.38 | DWSR | durcyn: www.mediafire.com |
| 21:23.38 | Fisker | consolefags ftl |
| 21:23.47 | DWSR | 100mb file size limit. |
| 21:24.05 | DWSR | I'm looking for the Gamestop/Dr. Pepper stuff. Have the pre-order + collector's edition\ |
| 21:24.11 | Fisker | ZOMG nicoli_s |
| 21:24.12 | Fisker | and ckknight |
| 21:24.12 | durcyn | eh, fuck that, i'll just dcc it. i have the dr pepper shit |
| 21:24.14 | ScytheBlade1 | for the xbox? |
| 21:24.15 | Fisker | Z O M G |
| 21:24.17 | ckknight | Fisker: gimmeh sc2 |
| 21:24.21 | Dagmar | I'm still hunting for some reason other than utter crap for the Cerberus network thing |
| 21:24.40 | Dagmar | I assumed it might mean a feed of fiction newsbits or something. Nope. |
| 21:24.45 | Dagmar | Doesn't seem like it does a damn thing. |
| 21:24.49 | Fisker | apparently someone found the download page |
| 21:24.55 | nicoli_s | really? |
| 21:25.10 | nicoli_s | link? |
| 21:25.32 | durcyn | DWSR: i probably need to adjust my firewall, but try that |
| 21:25.36 | Fisker | bah |
| 21:25.38 | Fisker | people suck |
| 21:25.43 | Ackis | Arrowmaster: what I'm interested in seeing is if you have the steam version, did the incisor riffle unlock on PC and xbox or just PC? |
| 21:25.55 | nicoli_s | huh fisker? |
| 21:26.01 | Fisker | "ZOMG BETA DOWNLOAD" |
| 21:26.09 | Fisker | "...Support Page removed" |
| 21:26.13 | Fisker | l2fuckingtopic jerk |
| 21:26.17 | DWSR | durcyn: Don't worry about it, I got the links. |
| 21:26.19 | nicoli_s | lol |
| 21:26.20 | Arrowmaster | i got The Saboteur and its an EA game, came with free DLC nudie patch (i had no clue until after i bought it and opened it), since they completely side steped microsofts download system by giving you an EA code to enter in the game instead of a MS code to enter in the dash, the download i got is different than the one listed for the game in the marketplace so i can not redownload it for free from there |
| 21:26.29 | durcyn | Arrowmaster: all unlocks are for 360 and pc on my steam copy |
| 21:26.46 | durcyn | er Ackis |
| 21:26.59 | DWSR | Dagmar: : It is, actually. |
| 21:27.00 | Arrowmaster | i can go online and look through my console download history and find it and queue it up to redownload but i have no clue if that would let me download it on another console |
| 21:27.09 | DWSR | Dagmar: My Cerberus Network currently has some fictional news. |
| 21:27.30 | Ackis | Arrowmaster: the DLC codes unlock it in the marketplace for you so you can redownload it on another console |
| 21:27.43 | durcyn | and yeah, free DLC at shipping time exists for one reason and one reason only, to destroy the used game market |
| 21:27.46 | Arrowmaster | Ackis: not for The Sabatour |
| 21:27.47 | Dagmar | dwsr: I'm not seeing anything but the same four tired looking items on mine |
| 21:27.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Shadowed (~Shadowed@li89-205.members.linode.com) |
| 21:28.11 | Ackis | Arrowmaster: ah thought we were talking about ME2 |
| 21:28.18 | DWSR | We are. |
| 21:28.26 | Arrowmaster | Ackis: also Cerberus network is not unlocked in marketplace for me |
| 21:28.29 | DWSR | Arrowmaster is derailing.\ |
| 21:28.30 | Dagmar | I'm literally one more slight away from saying "F**k giving EA another penny) |
| 21:28.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Roofel (~chatzilla@c845245C1.dhcp.bluecom.no) |
| 21:28.45 | Dagmar | I am tired of them finding new and inventive ways to screw over customers |
| 21:28.45 | DWSR | Anyone here played ME2 through not using one of the DLC armor sets? |
| 21:28.50 | Arrowmaster | but ME2 has the ability to download it in the game unlike Sabatour |
| 21:29.00 | Dagmar | I'M PAYING THEM INSTEAD OF PIRATING and getting LESS. |
| 21:29.03 | Dagmar | It' spathetic. |
| 21:29.22 | Arrowmaster | DWSR: i havent even started the game |
| 21:29.27 | Dagmar | dwsr: I'm almost through it, but frankly, screw that silly-ass platemail |
| 21:29.29 | nevcairiel | Electronic Arts, screwing over customers since 1982 |
| 21:29.37 | nevcairiel | its not new :p |
| 21:29.44 | DWSR | Dagmar: I'm using the collector's armor atm. |
| 21:29.44 | Ackis | Activision is the new devil, they took the crown from EA! |
| 21:29.50 | Dagmar | Their methods for doing it are new |
| 21:30.07 | DWSR | Dagmar: I'm wondering if it's better than using some of the advanced pieces of armor that you unlock. |
| 21:30.10 | Arrowmaster | EA is bad, but Activision's CEO publicly admitted he hates games |
| 21:30.11 | Dagmar | dwsr: I'm not sure I'd notice |
| 21:30.17 | nevcairiel | EA is still the company that manages to release the same game every year again, just with a new year-number in it .P |
| 21:30.23 | Dagmar | I've been using armor I bought off salaraians and stuff |
| 21:30.29 | DWSR | Dagmar: On hard or insane you probably will. |
| 21:30.35 | DWSR | BTW, the jump from normal to Hard is stupid. |
| 21:30.41 | DWSR | And FUCK the enemy pyros. |
| 21:30.48 | Ackis | is playing on insane |
| 21:30.56 | Ackis | I did the tutorial then loaded up NBA Live 07 |
| 21:31.14 | Arrowmaster | i started a new ME1 game on hard and its like wtf compared to normal |
| 21:31.25 | DWSR | OH WHAT? |
| 21:31.37 | DWSR | You can COMBINE biotics in ME2?!?!?!?!??! |
| 21:31.41 | Ackis | DWSR: your caps lock key is down. |
| 21:31.45 | Dagmar | dwsr: Do you know Mordin's terrible secret yet? |
| 21:31.56 | DWSR | Dagmar: That he helped engineer the plague? Yes. |
| 21:32.09 | Dagmar | DWSR: Yes of course you can combine them, but it's more like two people firing off attacks almost simultaneously |
| 21:32.16 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: the solarian? |
| 21:32.26 | DWSR | Dagmar: Yes, but the combinations actually have extra effects. |
| 21:32.29 | Dagmar | DWSR: 1. That's not exactly a secret, and 2. they _are_ Krogan we're talking about |
| 21:32.35 | durcyn | more importantly, have you heard him *sing* |
| 21:32.38 | DWSR | LULZ. |
| 21:32.39 | Dagmar | ...so, not so "terrible" |
| 21:32.44 | DWSR | Dagmar: No, I don't, then. |
| 21:32.44 | Dagmar | ~durcyn++ |
| 21:32.49 | DWSR | Obviously missed that on my first playthrough. |
| 21:32.50 | Dagmar | It's completely awesome. |
| 21:32.53 | DWSR | Which is why I'm playing it again |
| 21:32.57 | Dagmar | YouTube has it |
| 21:33.04 | Dagmar | He's an incredible alto |
| 21:33.19 | DWSR | And BTW. |
| 21:33.27 | durcyn | an alien singing rogers and hammerstein without uttering a single article |
| 21:33.33 | DWSR | Incisor sniper rifle = blow through all enemy armor in 1 burst. |
| 21:33.35 | VonhintenHOME` | What's this I hear about Saurfang being bugged? We did him last night and ended up with 2 marks out, when we normally do it with 0 and 60-80 runic power built up |
| 21:34.10 | VonhintenHOME` | seen no mention on mmo-champ |
| 21:34.37 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: wait im confused now that you are spoiling shit and ive not played the game, is the plague you are referring to the genophage? |
| 21:35.08 | Dagmar | dwsr: I got a regular sniper rifle from someone or other. It's had the expected effect. When I pull it out, no one really stands a chance. Three headshots kills just about anything |
| 21:35.25 | DWSR | Dagmar: Regular sniper rifle pails in comparison to the Incisor. |
| 21:35.27 | durcyn | Arrowmaster: mordin's backstory and loyalty mission involve the genophage, yes |
| 21:35.40 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: In ME1 it was revealed that the Solarians created the genophage, several times |
| 21:35.44 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 21:35.45 | Arrowmaster | how is that possible |
| 21:35.53 | Arrowmaster | the solarians only live for about 40 years |
| 21:36.15 | durcyn | play the effing game and find out? |
| 21:36.55 | Dagmar | The lack of many (or any) pronouns coming from Mordin make it unclear if he's talking about himself or just "Salarian science geeks" in general |
| 21:37.36 | durcyn | er, it becomes quite obvious on said loyalty mission |
| 21:37.41 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 21:37.47 | Dagmar | Something to do with Mordin admitting it 2-3 times |
| 21:38.14 | Dagmar | After the loyalty mission, talk to Mordin some more and he'll let you in on his terrible secret |
| 21:38.30 | Dagmar | ...and again, I'm not talking about the genophage. |
| 21:38.38 | nicoli_s | yall need to stop spoiling this game so i can decide if i want to play it or not |
| 21:38.42 | Dagmar | ...or any other plague for that matter. |
| 21:39.00 | Arrowmaster | ok then |
| 21:39.11 | Dagmar | I don't see how discussing the awesomeness of a singing salarian is that terrible |
| 21:41.09 | DWSR | Anyone here done Zaeed's loyalty mission yet? |
| 21:43.24 | Ackis | yes it was stupid |
| 21:43.31 | Arrowmaster | so is youtube broken or my browser? |
| 21:43.46 | DWSR | Ackis: Meh, ending was pretty badass. |
| 21:43.55 | Arrowmaster | i found http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjIcFATxrus and the HD setting doesnt change the player size |
| 21:44.08 | Ackis | DWSR: I did the paragon route and didn't get him to be loyal |
| 21:44.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 21:44.18 | DWSR | Ackis: He's super useful. |
| 21:44.29 | Shirik | "Doctors, including a deputy state medical examiner, said it was the first such death in their experience because the problem is usually spotted before a child is born, or shortly afterward. But Neil Beagley had never been taken to a doctor, and his mother did not see any doctors before he was born." |
| 21:44.30 | Shirik | http://www.aolnews.com/crime/article/oregon-parents-jeff-and-marci-beagley-found-guilty-of-neglecting-ill-son/19343293?icid=main|aim|dl1|link3|http://www.aolnews.com/crime/article/oregon-parents-jeff-and-marci-beagley-found-guilty-of-neglecting-ill-son/19343293 |
| 21:44.39 | Shirik | wtf ^ |
| 21:45.08 | nicoli_s | people are crazy shirik |
| 21:45.11 | Dagmar | Ackis: universe has a lot of people. A few less here and there won't change much. |
| 21:45.14 | DWSR | Ackis: You get a way to learn the 1 power from any one of your squadmates. |
| 21:45.15 | nicoli_s | new age healing people fucking suck |
| 21:45.29 | Shirik | it's not just that nicoli_s |
| 21:45.40 | DWSR | Ackis: Learning one of Zaeed's powers saved me so much pain in the last 1/3rd of the game. |
| 21:45.47 | Shirik | This is after "The Beagleys' 15-month-old granddaughter, Ava Worthington, died in March 2008 of pneumonia and a blood infection that also could have been treated." |
| 21:45.58 | Shirik | this is the SECOND time something like this has happened by them |
| 21:46.03 | Dagmar | Time for jail. |
| 21:46.04 | Ackis | what is zaeed's power anyways? I never used him, didn't like him |
| 21:46.05 | DWSR | Criminal negligence. |
| 21:46.11 | Arrowmaster | 'faith healing' i stopped reading a that point and think their guilty |
| 21:46.15 | Arrowmaster | theyre |
| 21:46.21 | nicoli_s | want to hear some crazy faith healing hippie crap: http://www.dnaperfection.com/ |
| 21:46.25 | DWSR | Ackis: His loyalty power is the inferno grenade. |
| 21:46.30 | DWSR | Ackis: Think a napalm grenade. |
| 21:46.30 | Dagmar | Ackis: Seems like shooting the hell out of people to me |
| 21:46.30 | Ackis | shiny |
| 21:46.39 | DWSR | It's super useful, especially in the later levels. |
| 21:46.44 | Dagmar | He does pretty good with concussive shot |
| 21:46.45 | Kraps | hi-oh |
| 21:46.50 | DWSR | Shirik: Those people should be both tried and executed. |
| 21:46.58 | DWSR | Dagmar: Yeah, but his loyalty power is primo. |
| 21:46.58 | Ackis | I picked up the flesh killing bullets as my special power for playthrough 2 |
| 21:47.08 | DWSR | Ackis: The Indenciary rounds? |
| 21:47.18 | DWSR | Or the warp rounds? |
| 21:47.21 | Shirik | but now I'm going to play devil's advocate |
| 21:47.26 | Shirik | what about separation of church and state? |
| 21:47.40 | DWSR | Shirik: They should be tried for criminal negligence. |
| 21:47.41 | Dagmar | That doesn't even come into play. |
| 21:47.44 | DWSR | Shirik: ^^ |
| 21:47.51 | Shirik | If they truly believe they're providing the best care possible through prayer.. |
| 21:47.51 | DWSR | Has nothing to do with seperating anything from anything else. |
| 21:47.52 | Dagmar | In this instance, it should be called "faith not-actually-healing" |
| 21:48.07 | Dagmar | Pneumonia is readily treatable in this day and age. |
| 21:48.09 | DWSR | Shirik: What you believe is completely irrelevant if someone's life is on the line. |
| 21:48.44 | Shirik | not exactly true |
| 21:48.47 | Ackis | DWSR: shredder rounds I think they are called |
| 21:48.48 | DWSR | This sort of shit is absolutely rediculous. I don't care what people believe, except when it ends up killing people. Those people's beliefs are WRONG. |
| 21:48.52 | DWSR | Ackis: Ah. |
| 21:48.59 | durcyn | refusing treatment for yourself is one thing, but letting a fucking baby die from neglect? shit. |
| 21:49.02 | Ackis | DWSR: the assassin uses them I believe |
| 21:49.10 | Shirik | a while ago there was an act passed that helped first responders, protecting them from being tried because of causing damage while trying to save someone's life |
| 21:49.14 | Ackis | durcyn: many babies die each year from sitting! :P |
| 21:49.17 | Dagmar | The argument that an all-powerful deity's wants can somehow be thwarted by a syringe full of penicillin is fucking stupid. |
| 21:49.18 | DWSR | Ackis: Yeah, I failed his loyalty mission. |
| 21:49.27 | Shirik | for example, breaking ribs while performign CPR (not uncommon actually) |
| 21:49.29 | DWSR | Shirik: Yes, I know. |
| 21:49.31 | Dagmar | If god wants your kid to die, no doctor is going to be able to stop it. |
| 21:49.32 | DWSR | I've used it. |
| 21:49.53 | alestane | While separation of church and state is a valid principle, the reason why murder is considered a crime and not a civil offense stems from the notion that the state has an interest in its members' lives and contributions, and can restrict other peoples' attempts to endanger them. |
| 21:49.53 | Ackis | on your second playthrough do you start with research already researched? |
| 21:49.56 | DWSR | No. |
| 21:50.09 | DWSR | ~alestane++ |
| 21:50.56 | Shirik | problem is , separation of church and state is in the constitution. As stupid as this sounds, the right to life is not |
| 21:51.19 | kdtresh | it's in the declaration of independence! |
| 21:51.28 | alestane | And in fact, separation of church and state means that the state is under no obligation to regard faith-based healing methods as valid attempts to safeguard the life of a citizen. |
| 21:51.32 | NightHawkTheSane | ... we have to put the right to life in the constitution? |
| 21:51.39 | Ackis | living is a privilege not a right |
| 21:51.39 | NightHawkTheSane | am i the only one who thinks thats absurd? |
| 21:51.48 | Shirik | (16:46:18) (@Shirik) but now I'm going to play devil's advocate |
| 21:52.04 | DWSR | ~alestane++ |
| 21:52.06 | DWSR | Again. |
| 21:52.11 | kdtresh | "promote the general welfare" could be construed to protect life |
| 21:52.25 | alestane | Shirik: It's not actually about the right to live; it's about the state's vested interest in the lives of its citizens. |
| 21:52.32 | NightHawkTheSane | there's no devil's advocate to that concept. unless you're really ready to admit that you don't have any right to live. |
| 21:53.07 | Shirik | see and this is why law is pointless, really |
| 21:53.22 | Shirik | Law needs to be written by software engineers with strong understanding of requirements and IEEE 830 |
| 21:53.29 | Shirik | not this "well it was obvious" crap |
| 21:53.51 | alestane | NightHawkTheSane: "right" is a fuzzy concept in this case. Rights only exist when agreed on. Except insofar as I am willing to trust in my community to safeguard me (which is actually fairly far), I must secure my own existence. |
| 21:54.42 | alestane | States exist to build reasonably reliable systems to take the burden of securing commonly desired things at least partly off the individual. |
| 21:55.29 | Shirik | by "state" I assume you mean état for lack of a better word in english |
| 21:55.34 | alestane | Or to quote a great man, "...to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed..." |
| 21:55.52 | Ackis | lol |
| 21:55.53 | Ackis | http://consumerist.com/2010/02/sony-doesnt-like-us-posting-ceos-email-address.html |
| 21:56.20 | alestane | By "state" I mean an implicit or explicit contract formulated between a group of people collectively and each individual composing that group. |
| 21:57.15 | Shirik | ok |
| 21:57.21 | Shirik | and Ackis, lol: No, we won't be removing jack_tretton@playstation.sony.com. Not sure what's so confusing about the email address, jack_tretton@playstation.sony.com, Patrick. "When no one listens to you at Playstation, take it to jack_tretton@playstation.sony.com" seems pretty easy to understand. |
| 21:57.24 | DWSR | :) |
| 21:58.17 | Ackis | lol yeah that's the part that got me snickering |
| 21:58.29 | Shirik | Wow... there's an awesome bug in seven |
| 21:58.42 | Shirik | Someone has an impossible nick o.o; |
| 21:58.56 | alestane | But backtracking, murder is a crime, not a tort. That is, it is an offense against the state itself, rather than an offense against the person killed or the people directly affected by their death, such as their dependents. |
| 21:59.11 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: whats impossible about it? |
| 21:59.14 | Shirik | Someone has nick: 31NAAA7HY |
| 21:59.29 | Shirik | It's illegal according to the IRC specification (and seven enforces it) |
| 21:59.31 | Shirik | BUT |
| 21:59.48 | Arrowmaster | do you see this person in a channel? |
| 21:59.54 | Shirik | yup |
| 22:00.04 | Shirik | If you get a nick collision during recovery from a netsplit, it changes your nick to your "unique ID" which might in fact start with a number |
| 22:00.20 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 22:00.40 | Shirik | interesting, but broken, behavior :P |
| 22:01.26 | nicoli_s | you and yer silly standards shirki |
| 22:01.37 | Arrowmaster | i see a 13WAAAAQ3 too |
| 22:01.41 | nicoli_s | shirik* |
| 22:01.44 | *** join/#wowuidev DaDruben (~daadooba@88-106-149-81.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 22:01.59 | nicoli_s | thats why you should all be using mirc :P |
| 22:02.11 | Arrowmaster | when you said that nick the first thing that came to mind was the unique ids used between servers |
| 22:02.13 | Fisker | no! |
| 22:02.46 | Arrowmaster | nicoli_s: mirc doesnt even follow the standards, its the absolute worst offender of making up its own |
| 22:02.54 | Fisker | fu u |
| 22:03.08 | alestane | Therefore, we can reason (as asserted above) that the state for which the U.S. Federal government is an implementing vehicle claims a vested interest in the well-being of its constituents, and calls upon its citizens to safeguard that interest. |
| 22:03.08 | alestane | And separation of church and state in fact defends the state's right to define its own standards for reasonable attempts to fulfill that duty, independent of any faith's claims about what constitutes such defense. |
| 22:03.15 | Fisker | giev better windows client then Arrowmaster |
| 22:03.27 | Arrowmaster | xchat |
| 22:04.24 | nicoli_s | Arrowmaster:standards are made to be ignored and made up |
| 22:04.48 | Fisker | no Arrowmaster |
| 22:04.50 | Fisker | i said a better one |
| 22:05.05 | alestane | The state is no more obligated to recognize faith-healing as valid child-care than it is to teach "intelligent design" in publicly-funded schools. |
| 22:06.09 | kdtresh | but does that lack of obligation mean they are obligated NOT to? |
| 22:06.48 | alestane | Given that Congress shall make no law regarding establishment of religion, I'd say they are. |
| 22:07.50 | Arrowmaster | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfwHLjCeCs0 |
| 22:07.52 | Arrowmaster | i lold |
| 22:08.02 | cbreak | blizzard really overbuffed Saurfaung |
| 22:08.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (~Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 22:08.51 | cbreak | 10 marks by the time we reached 10% |
| 22:09.10 | DWSR | You guys are awful. |
| 22:09.11 | Adys | Shadowed: ping |
| 22:09.28 | DWSR | cbreak: Even this week, my guild managed to put Saurfang down with only 2 marks out |
| 22:09.31 | cbreak | usually we do him in two or three marks |
| 22:09.33 | DWSR | Before it was 0. |
| 22:09.44 | cbreak | but this week he seems to be buffed considerably |
| 22:09.52 | DWSR | You ought to be able to hit almost 40% without a mark going out. |
| 22:09.55 | Fisker | DWSR 10-man? |
| 22:09.58 | DWSR | mhm. |
| 22:10.01 | cbreak | 25 |
| 22:10.05 | DWSR | either or. |
| 22:10.09 | Fisker | 10-man is cake as usual |
| 22:10.12 | DWSR | indeed. |
| 22:10.16 | DWSR | Only 1 mark on 10. |
| 22:10.17 | DWSR | 2 on 25. |
| 22:10.22 | Fisker | i disagree |
| 22:10.23 | DWSR | They did buff him, but not "considerably" |
| 22:10.44 | Ackis | http://cdn-www.cracked.com/phpimages/photoshop/2/5/1/18251.jpg?v=1 haha |
| 22:11.22 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (~airtonix@ppp118-210-144-201.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net) |
| 22:12.16 | DWSR | http://consumerist.com/2010/02/ellen-cant-open-the-make-up-she-endorses.html |
| 22:16.28 | Shirik | Interesting quote: "Basic research is what I am doing when I don't know what I am doing" |
| 22:17.10 | nicoli_s | lol |
| 22:19.05 | *** join/#wowuidev WobWork (~Wobwork@136.136.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 22:19.40 | Dagmar | Clearly that's not a member of management speaking. |
| 22:20.38 | NeoTron | cbreak: http://blue.mmo-champion.com/12/22748822581-25-saurfang-out-of-control--bugged.html |
| 22:20.55 | NeoTron | so they changed it but apparently buffed it to that degree unintentionally |
| 22:27.23 | Dagmar | I'm not sure who they were talking about doing this "just let people with marks die" thing, but I don't see how it could be 10man |
| 22:27.36 | Dagmar | You can't really afford to lose more than one person, if that |
| 22:30.47 | cbreak | we usually let two people die |
| 22:30.49 | cbreak | sometimes three |
| 22:30.54 | cbreak | (in 25) |
| 22:31.10 | tlund | Dagmar: we tried that in 25 man, everyone who got the mark before 30% we just allowed to die |
| 22:31.18 | tlund | it was our first kill :) |
| 22:32.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (~Vilkku@dsl-tkubrasgw1-ffc7c100-46.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 22:33.05 | cbreak | when? |
| 22:33.23 | cbreak | our usual strategy doesn't work anymore |
| 22:37.42 | Fisker | hey nicoli_s |
| 22:37.59 | Fisker | i don't get it |
| 22:38.04 | Fisker | why kill people during saurfang? |
| 22:38.12 | Fisker | it's 5% healed per death |
| 22:38.13 | nicoli_s | hey fisker |
| 22:38.30 | Fisker | hey nicoli_s |
| 22:38.38 | Dagmar | You can't really keep them alive unless you've got a bunch of healers hiding in your pocket |
| 22:38.41 | airtonix | lulz |
| 22:38.52 | Dagmar | That mark doesn't go away just because they die. You bres them and it's still there. |
| 22:39.13 | Fisker | Yeah but killing them is stupid since you have 4 cannons in the back |
| 22:39.15 | Fisker | bam |
| 22:39.21 | airtonix | wtb totally random tactics on end game bosses that require years and years of wipes to get past |
| 22:39.25 | Dagmar | Since when are you allowed to use those guns? |
| 22:39.29 | airtonix | oh wait |
| 22:39.53 | Fisker | I don't see a "do not use under saurfang fight"-sign :D |
| 22:40.31 | Fisker | infact the whole fight is illogical |
| 22:40.37 | Fisker | just use the cannons to kill him |
| 22:40.48 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR (~c04b8bf9@gateway/web/freenode/x-tflfvjkidisiulxs) |
| 22:40.59 | DWSR | Why is frigg CTCP'ing my versions? |
| 22:41.06 | kd3 | it's a connect bot |
| 22:41.10 | WobWork | yeah =\ |
| 22:41.14 | Fisker | frigg is a jerk |
| 22:41.22 | DWSR | Right, but I'm running from webchat. |
| 22:41.24 | WobWork | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:41.49 | DWSR | Obviously, services know that I'm running from webchat because I have a webchat hostname. |
| 22:42.13 | DWSR | therefore, why the hell is frigg CTCP'ing my versions? |
| 22:42.32 | Fisker | to version your ctcp's |
| 22:42.37 | Arrowmaster | because its not services, its just a random bot run by freenode |
| 22:42.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (~Vilkku@dsl-tkubrasgw1-ffc7c100-46.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 22:42.49 | Fisker | infact why waste time programming an exception? |
| 22:43.01 | DWSR | Arrowmaster: I'm sure that it's u:line'd (or whatever the seven equivalent is). |
| 22:43.45 | DWSR | actually, probably *not* u:line'd. |
| 22:43.57 | Arrowmaster | its not |
| 22:43.57 | DWSR | But it's probably oper'ed up so that it can get connect snotices. |
| 22:44.52 | cbreak | marks increase exponentially if people get healed |
| 22:44.52 | DWSR | WTB google tablet, btw. |
| 22:44.58 | cbreak | but linearly if they die |
| 22:45.02 | DWSR | LULZ. |
| 22:45.20 | haste | DWSR: you mean alex? |
| 22:45.20 | DWSR | Meaning that if you were good and could kill him with no/1 marks before, you can probably still do it. |
| 22:45.22 | cbreak | because the speed at which the boss gains blood increases which each mark |
| 22:45.24 | haste | or whatever it's named |
| 22:45.32 | haste | maybe that was a android kindle replacemnet only as well |
| 22:45.35 | cbreak | DWSR: that's my guess |
| 22:45.44 | cbreak | but my guild lacks the dps for such things |
| 22:46.03 | DWSR | iPad: Proof that women are not involved in big decisions at Apple. |
| 22:46.27 | cbreak | Steve Jobs is a man |
| 22:46.32 | cbreak | proof for the same thing |
| 22:47.17 | *** join/#wowuidev luigithekid (~chatzilla@201.208.44.87) |
| 22:48.38 | DWSR | cbreak: Presumably, more people than just Steve Jobs are involved in big decisions at apple. |
| 22:49.38 | DWSR | Is iPad multi-touch? |
| 22:50.27 | haste | yes |
| 22:50.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Ruck (~bleh@pool-72-86-106-233.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 22:50.54 | DWSR | Does it actually use said feature? |
| 22:51.14 | haste | afaik the gallery and browser |
| 22:51.44 | DWSR | If ChromeOS is supposed to be designed for Google's tablet, I want a freakin' copy. |
| 22:53.03 | WobWork | woot! |
| 22:53.05 | WobWork | We won! |
| 22:53.17 | WobWork | (and by 'we' I mean 'those of us with common sense') |
| 22:53.24 | DWSR | ?\ |
| 22:53.41 | WobWork | "..copyright occured as result of use of BitTorrent, not the Internet" said Justice Cowdroy." |
| 22:53.53 | WobWork | iiNet won the trial |
| 22:54.05 | WobWork | and AFACT have to pay their legal fees =P |
| 22:54.19 | DWSR | linkeh. |
| 22:54.46 | WobWork | none yet, trawling tweets |
| 22:55.26 | WobWork | hehe |
| 22:55.32 | DWSR | sigh |
| 22:55.33 | WobWork | twitter is awesome for stuff like this |
| 22:55.36 | DWSR | I want GUI/10 now! |
| 22:55.44 | WobWork | less than 5min have passed since the ruling |
| 22:55.47 | WobWork | and everyone knows =P |
| 22:56.04 | DWSR | lol |
| 22:56.31 | WobWork | http://twitter.com/#search?q=iitrial |
| 22:58.47 | A-KO | http://celebrities.ninemsn.com.au/blog.aspx?blogentryid=585857&showcomments=true&rss=yes < in a major WTF moment (NSFW) |
| 22:59.17 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 22:59.17 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 22:59.37 | Dagmar | Interesting |
| 22:59.52 | Dagmar | US ISPs generally don't have a problem forwarding scoldings to customers |
| 23:01.03 | WobWork | http://www.efa.org.au/2010/02/04/sanity-prevails-iinet-did-not-authorise-its-users-infringements/ |
| 23:01.13 | Dagmar | This "unverified evidence of a 3rd party" bit is intersting tho'. It leads me to believe that possible AFACT might have been doing a half-assed job of providing clear information about who and when was infringing |
| 23:01.22 | nicoli_s | wtf a-ko |
| 23:01.23 | WobWork | oh naturally |
| 23:01.33 | WobWork | when has anything of this sort -ever- had a clear line of evidence |
| 23:01.45 | Dagmar | Well, I actually see these notices come in |
| 23:01.55 | Dagmar | Some of them are just laughably vague |
| 23:02.03 | WobWork | that's the point |
| 23:02.07 | WobWork | they can't be precise =P |
| 23:02.21 | WobWork | otherwise people would call them out on it |
| 23:02.37 | Dagmar | Some don't specify when they detected the infringement, some don't specify _what_ form this infringement took (i.e, they have when and an IP address, but don't say a damn bit about the supposedly infringing material) |
| 23:02.56 | WobWork | but in this case |
| 23:03.01 | Dagmar | There's *one* company out of California tho that is actually being super-reasonable |
| 23:03.05 | WobWork | they're wanting the ISP to do their policing for them |
| 23:03.13 | WobWork | and that's stupid |
| 23:03.18 | Dagmar | They're sending us info on what IP, when, the exact filename and which of their clients holds the rights on it |
| 23:03.24 | Dagmar | They are also asking for a very SMALL amount of money |
| 23:03.29 | Dagmar | $12 most of the time. |
| 23:03.30 | Dagmar | No joke. |
| 23:03.32 | WobWork | it's like asking the water company to monitor who's making tea. |
| 23:03.36 | Dagmar | *That* I could get behind. |
| 23:03.59 | Dagmar | But it's *only* this one company, and I suspect that since Frank Zappa is one of their largest clients, he might have had something to do with how reasonable they're being |
| 23:03.59 | WobWork | ok, so my analogy kinda falls apart =P |
| 23:05.28 | Dagmar | Welll, colleges will dump you and put you on probation if you get a number of violation reports sent in about you |
| 23:05.51 | WobWork | goes and makes a cup of tea in protest |
| 23:05.56 | Dagmar | There's some ISPs in the US that will terminate your access if the complaining party makes enough paperwork for them |
| 23:06.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Aelobin (~Aelobin@88-109-153-164.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 23:07.04 | Dagmar | I can't really see the average well-run ISP having a problem checking logs and figuring out who they should forward a complaint letter to, but it looks like AFACT was asking for more than that |
| 23:07.06 | WobWork | well now iiNet can forward any infringement notices direct to /dev/null |
| 23:07.17 | Dagmar | It's not appropriate for an outside third party to be telling an ISP to disconnect people |
| 23:07.23 | Dagmar | Yeah, AFACT screwed up. |
| 23:07.23 | WobWork | They were basically asking iiNet to actually do the checking |
| 23:07.37 | Dagmar | They screwed up large and it's going to be hard to reach a reasonable middle ground now |
| 23:08.03 | DWSR | meh |
| 23:08.14 | DWSR | Here's how I look at this. |
| 23:08.16 | DWSR | Fuck the man. |
| 23:08.28 | Dagmar | If AFACT never made their users acknowledge a TOS agreement that forbids them breaking the law, then iiNet can't really even disconnect them no matter how many complaints come in |
| 23:08.36 | Dagmar | ...and a lot of ISPs don't bother. |
| 23:08.48 | Dagmar | It's assumed that if the user is breaking the law, someone else will come down on them and the problem resolves itself |
| 23:09.29 | Dagmar | In the US there's this "common carrier" thing which is what was getting Comcast in legal hot water over their "traffic shaping" bullshit |
| 23:09.49 | Dagmar | It's acknowledged that it's pretty much impossible for a utility like the phone company to reasonably and fairly monitor use of the service |
| 23:10.19 | Dagmar | They are completely free and clear of any liability stemming from not spying on users to see what they're doing |
| 23:10.41 | WobWork | which is what iiNet were saying |
| 23:10.52 | Dagmar | ...and by the same hand they're not _allowed_ to go stalking users, or the legal argument can be made that they *might* know about something and didn't do anything about it. |
| 23:11.16 | Dagmar | It's just entirely financially unreasonable to expect a carrier to take on that kind of liability, hence "common carrier" status |
| 23:11.17 | WobWork | and iiNet are perfectly happy to not snoop on their customer's data streams |
| 23:12.10 | Dagmar | This looks like a legal sign-off on iiNet just sending those notices to /dev/null, which is a step in the wrong direction, IMHO |
| 23:12.15 | Dagmar | Not much of one, but it's still a bit broken |
| 23:12.45 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: i didnt think comcast had common carrier status? |
| 23:13.29 | DWSR | http://is.gd/7EbnG <-- Read the article title. |
| 23:13.56 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: They're very much pushing their luck on that front since they haven't applied for it but have been treated as if they are one, so far |
| 23:14.23 | WobWork | DWSR: Just wait for the MaxiPad? |
| 23:14.31 | DWSR | yea. |
| 23:14.32 | DWSR | :D |
| 23:14.36 | WobWork | old joke is old =P |
| 23:14.44 | Arrowmaster | i wasnt aware that any isp's actually kept up on their common carrier status, the only ones that might have it are phone companies offering DSL |
| 23:14.45 | Dagmar | Them dorking around with that phoney-baloney connection-breaking crap almost brought that particular legal issue to a "someone has to rule on this" point |
| 23:14.47 | DWSR | Still funneh. |
| 23:14.55 | Fisker | it is clear what we must now do |
| 23:15.00 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 23:15.04 | Fisker | We must (fucking) kill Facebook and Twitter |
| 23:15.10 | DWSR | KILL THEM ALL? GOOD IDAE. |
| 23:15.17 | DWSR | IDEA* |
| 23:15.19 | DWSR | Oh... |
| 23:15.31 | Fisker | that way we can atleast stop Blizzard from joining the conformist retarded social sites |
| 23:15.33 | Fisker | >:3 |
| 23:15.39 | Jerub | woooooooooooooooooooo |
| 23:15.45 | Dagmar | I can't remember the name of the software Comcast was using, but it didn't help that it was malfunctioning on an EPIC level |
| 23:15.51 | DWSR | Dagmar: Sandvine? |
| 23:15.56 | Dagmar | I was seeing fins spoofed for ssh connections |
| 23:16.01 | Dagmar | DWSR: That's it |
| 23:16.04 | Dagmar | Yeah it's a piece of crap |
| 23:16.06 | DWSR | Did they stop that shit? |
| 23:16.09 | Dagmar | Yes they did |
| 23:16.13 | DWSR | lulz. |
| 23:16.15 | DWSR | Rogers didn't. |
| 23:16.25 | Dagmar | WoW players on Comcast's network were going to be my weapon on that |
| 23:16.39 | Dagmar | I was getting pissed about the disconnections, so I wrote some netfilter hooks to _watch_ for it |
| 23:16.42 | DWSR | I wish the CRTC had some teeth. |
| 23:16.49 | WobWork | Jerub: Yesss! |
| 23:16.54 | Dagmar | ...and I was about to post how many times a night *Comcast* disconnected my WoW session |
| 23:16.56 | DWSR | Dagmar: Doesn't help. |
| 23:16.57 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: sandvine |
| 23:17.04 | DWSR | Arrowmaster: Welcome to 10 minutes ago. |
| 23:17.09 | DWSR | Dagmar: Oh, *shrug*. |
| 23:17.12 | Dagmar | let them freaking deal with the bad press from all the gamers now blaming random disconnections on Comcast screwing around |
| 23:17.40 | DWSR | Dagmar: the torrent community just posted netfilter/iptables scripts that ignored bad RST/FINs. |
| 23:17.50 | Dagmar | DWSR: Yeah I know |
| 23:17.57 | DWSR | About 50% of people implemented them. |
| 23:17.58 | Dagmar | I wrote this before that even went out |
| 23:18.22 | Dagmar | I was *pissed* about my ssh sessions to home dropping so often, and I'd already had the network guys at the office look into it |
| 23:18.56 | Dagmar | They would have caught a lot less hell about it if Sandvine weren' so buggy that it would disconnect pretty much _any_ session, almost at random |
| 23:19.58 | DWSR | Dagmar: Yeah, resetting SSL sessions was pretty lulzy. |
| 23:20.08 | DWSR | s/ssl/encrypted/ |
| 23:20.19 | Dagmar | DWSR: I could definitely say the FINs weren't originating at my office |
| 23:22.48 | Fisker | i would've reset you DWSR |
| 23:22.57 | DWSR | omg. |
| 23:23.08 | DWSR | My Java TA is fucking retarded. |
| 23:23.20 | DWSR | She cannot read JRE errors to save her life. |
| 23:23.27 | Shirik | lol |
| 23:23.55 | Arrowmaster | you know what the riaa/etc's little incompetent monkeys need to do next? connect to a torrent tracker and get all the peer ips then flood them all with RST packets being spoofed from another peer using random ports, and to make it effective spam it a lot |
| 23:24.09 | Arrowmaster | then we can have the federal government just arrest them all |
| 23:24.17 | foxlit | bittorrent over udp, clearly. |
| 23:24.43 | Shirik | Arrowmaster: Where did that statement come from? o.o |
| 23:25.36 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: thats basically what sandvine would be if it wasnt located on the isps network between the clients |
| 23:25.44 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR (~c04b8bf9@gateway/web/freenode/x-eimfytyecqosjyua) |
| 23:26.02 | Dagmar | I would love to be part of a class-action lawsuit against the RIAA for a DDOS |
| 23:26.08 | Arrowmaster | one big fat DoS |
| 23:26.10 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR (~c04b8bf9@gateway/web/freenode/x-elmexayqmcuowusd) |
| 23:26.17 | WobWork | overweight ddos? |
| 23:26.18 | *** join/#wowuidev BWMerlin (~chatzilla@CPE-58-174-144-237.mjcz1.woo.bigpond.net.au) |
| 23:26.31 | Arrowmaster | mediasentry was investigated for a DoS |
| 23:27.11 | Dagmar | THey were very much doing it |
| 23:27.22 | Dagmar | ...in addition to a bnch of other even more illegal things. |
| 23:27.42 | Arrowmaster | they found some legit torrent tracker that wasnt secured and allowed anybody to create torrents on it and used it to create fake torrents, when the company found out it wasnt secure they fixed it and then mediasentrys robots DDoSed the tracker when they couldnt connect properly |
| 23:28.02 | haste | ooh, that was on R4 or something |
| 23:28.06 | Dagmar | Like, one of their little corporate fronts was actually setting up a video sharing site, vicariously encouraging users to upload infringing content, and then filing claims against the users. |
| 23:28.07 | haste | I remember all the fuss about that :D |
| 23:28.19 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: Signal5 or whatever it was |
| 23:28.23 | Arrowmaster | yeah |
| 23:28.25 | DWSR | Arrowmaster: Yeah, I remember that. |
| 23:28.39 | Dagmar | It was the people hosting the torrents of the video show run by the guy who used to be on TechTV (Dark Tipper) |
| 23:28.55 | Dagmar | MediaSentry are just a bunch of criminals with law degrees |
| 23:29.21 | haste | they have law degrees? |
| 23:29.26 | Dagmar | Some of them do |
| 23:29.39 | WobWork | from the bottom of a box of crackerjacks? |
| 23:29.55 | Dagmar | I understand the rest of the lawyers in the world get very angry if you go 'round calling yourself a lawyer when you've not paid for a law degree |
| 23:30.06 | Arrowmaster | yes, from prestigious universities located on caribbean islands |
| 23:30.15 | WobWork | Just look at Jack Thompson =P |
| 23:30.19 | Dagmar | Probably |
| 23:30.51 | Dagmar | WobWork: Some day Jack Thompson is going to get a good dose of penicillin and the doctors will realize his insanity had an organic cause after all |
| 23:31.30 | Dagmar | Something is just _wrong_ with that man to be making the ludicrous claims he was making |
| 23:31.39 | Shirik | ....................... |
| 23:32.02 | Shirik | someone just said in class "Back in 2008, this wasn't a big deal, but nowadays.." and then it hit me...that was 2 years ago |
| 23:32.09 | Shirik | I'm scared :( |
| 23:32.14 | DWSR | lol |
| 23:32.20 | DWSR | Slipping away, time is. |
| 23:32.24 | kd3 | don't speak his name. you'll summon him like Betelgeuse |
| 23:32.29 | DWSR | hehe |
| 23:32.44 | Dagmar | kd3: I so wish that actually worked. |
| 23:32.58 | DWSR | I remember ready something about MediaSentry forcing employees to use their residential connections to infiltrate torrent communities and such? |
| 23:33.01 | Dagmar | I have a number of blunt objects I'd like to introduce him to. |
| 23:33.08 | Dagmar | DWSR: Yep. |
| 23:33.14 | DWSR | Scumbags. |
| 23:33.21 | DWSR | BURN IN A RIGHTEOUS FIRE. |
| 23:33.28 | DWSR | ^ What boss is that from, btw? |
| 23:33.35 | kd3 | SM? |
| 23:33.37 | Dagmar | Dwsr: Primarily because the torrent kiddies did the research to find out every netblock MediaSentry had access to and just started sharing block lists |
| 23:33.46 | DWSR | Dagmar: Good old kiddies. |
| 23:33.57 | DWSR | Well, except script kiddies. |
| 23:33.59 | Dagmar | I set up reflect rules |
| 23:34.16 | DWSR | I ran a seedbox hosting project at the time. |
| 23:34.19 | DWSR | I had all the netblocks. |
| 23:34.26 | Dagmar | Awesome |
| 23:34.36 | DWSR | It was really funny, actually. |
| 23:34.46 | DWSR | We had rented out about a dozen or so servers in a datacenter in France. |
| 23:34.56 | DWSR | All connected on a GBps backbone. |
| 23:35.14 | Arrowmaster | DWSR: ovh? |
| 23:35.18 | DWSR | Yep. |
| 23:35.28 | kd3 | what I would give for that kind of bandwidth out in the middle of nowhere |
| 23:35.37 | Arrowmaster | they are bandwidth shaping now |
| 23:35.43 | DWSR | Didn't use to. |
| 23:35.53 | DWSR | So we'd get a hit on one of our servers. |
| 23:36.08 | Arrowmaster | well ovh is the number 1 seedbox hoster, i dont think they are happy about it |
| 23:36.09 | DWSR | And immediately all the servers would slam that IP address. |
| 23:36.19 | DWSR | Arrowmaster: That's because ovh (the person) is a fucking idiot. |
| 23:36.59 | DWSR | After a while we just stopped allowing users to use public trackers. |
| 23:37.33 | DWSR | PEX and DHT were disabled on all of our clients, and so forth. |
| 23:38.21 | WobWork | http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/04/2809856.htm?section=justin |
| 23:38.26 | DWSR | Even so, still picked up a few hits with people sending out rediculous amounts of corrupted data, which we promptly got banned off of every tracker that we had a user on. |
| 23:38.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (~muffins@pool-72-84-246-12.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) |
| 23:38.45 | WobWork | honestly, how can they be expected to be treated seriously if they go about entrapment that way? =P |
| 23:38.56 | Fisker | hey kd3 |
| 23:39.13 | WobWork | "The entertainment companies compiled their evidence by hiring two investigators to subscribe to iiNet and then begin trading files using different BitTorrent networks." |
| 23:39.26 | WobWork | wouldn't that mean they'd have to sue their investigators? |
| 23:39.46 | Dagmar | Yes. |
| 23:39.52 | foxlit | No. |
| 23:39.55 | Dagmar | That will get you into some legal hot water. |
| 23:39.55 | DWSR | Yes. |
| 23:40.06 | Arrowmaster | depends on if they did any uploading |
| 23:40.11 | foxlit | It's a civil case. You can damn well choose who you want to sue. |
| 23:40.18 | Fisker | HEY KD3 |
| 23:40.34 | Dagmar | You can't however both *create* the crime *and* sue someone for it |
| 23:40.35 | DWSR | Arrowmaster: As they were hired by the company, I'm sure there's some loophole surrounding it. |
| 23:40.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@82.111.118.132) |
| 23:40.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 23:40.57 | Dagmar | This is why that little front company of theirs I mentioned earlier got into hot water over their phony video sharing site. |
| 23:40.58 | DWSR | Something like "we were authorizing the use of our copyright for this express purpose". |
| 23:40.58 | WobWork | In the end however, I think iiNet were in the right |
| 23:41.08 | DWSR | 100%. |
| 23:41.43 | WobWork | iiNet merely forwarded all information given by AFACT to the police |
| 23:42.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (~Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 23:42.33 | WobWork | iiNet shouldn't be forced to do all of AFACTs dirty work |
| 23:43.18 | WobWork | if they want to sue the people, they should go ahead and sue them directly. Not expect the ISP to do all the legwork. |
| 23:43.36 | Arrowmaster | "Mr Cobden also suggested that the companies should ask the file-sharing program BitTorrent to do more to crack down on piracy." serious or is he joking because he knows it cant be done? |
| 23:44.45 | WobWork | probably joking |
| 23:45.06 | WobWork | or serious to the point where he wants to see if they -actually- try =P |
| 23:45.44 | Arrowmaster | see if they actually try to find the 'file-sharing program BitTorrent' |
| 23:45.57 | WobWork | At which point they'll start suing Smith and Wesson for producing guns that kill people =P |
| 23:46.06 | WobWork | as an accessory to murder =P |
| 23:46.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@82.111.118.132) |
| 23:46.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 23:49.50 | Dagmar | WobWork: I'd rather see Ford be involved in a class-action for producing SUVs that endager the lives of everyone who isn't driving one |
| 23:53.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 23:54.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (~Lopeppepp@cpe-67-252-44-53.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 23:54.25 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 23:57.00 | alestane | Heyo. |
| 23:57.19 | WobWork | daylight come and I wanna go home? |
| 23:57.50 | alestane | That's "Day-o". |
| 23:58.06 | Lopeppeppy | Come mister tally man, tally me bananas. |
