IRC log for #wowuidev on 20091218

00:00.16NightHawkTheSanealthor's abacus is probably it..
00:00.52DagmarI love Steven E. Zipperstein
00:01.16DagmarIf you're wondering why, http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-2535A1.pdf
00:03.22*** join/#wowuidev theorb (n=theorb@91.84.53.6)
00:03.23Jerubi need to work out 'true cost' before buying stuff with EoT I think.
00:03.24WobWorkDagmar: do you mean you love Ruth Milkman?
00:03.44WobWorkor you love Steve for his ability to make money? =)
00:03.54Jerubbecause a chest with 2 sockets doesn't cost 50 EoT, it really costs 90EoT + 4 dream shards + 4 abyss crystals.
00:04.23WobWorkwhere are the extra 40 coming from?
00:04.33NightHawkTheSanepresmably buying two epic gems
00:04.35WobWorkand DS/AC are cheap as, now
00:04.38NightHawkTheSanebecause he hasn't built up a personal stockpile
00:04.39WobWorkah
00:04.44cbreakepic gems cost 10k honor
00:04.52cbreakeasy to get for moderately pvp active people
00:04.53WobWorkthis is why you run a JC
00:04.54JerubI spent all my honor.
00:05.02WobWorkand have a pet disenchanter
00:05.04NightHawkTheSaneWobWork: no, this is why you run an alchemist ;) or two..
00:05.18DagmarWobWork: it's part sarcasm and part looking forward to him being raked over the coals
00:05.20WobWorkNightHawkTheSane: eh, dragons eyes ftw
00:05.28ZorbaTHutepic gems cost a few hundred gold
00:05.31ZorbaTHutand gold is cheap
00:05.51Dagmar...much like we love pork, which is why we murder pigs and chew them up
00:05.59NightHawkTheSaneWobWork: only 3 though >.>
00:06.03WobWorktrue =(
00:06.20WobWorkI should probably get more epic haste gems
00:06.33DagmarThe FCC will probably (hopefully) begin pounding cell carriers in the ahem over this very soon
00:06.38NightHawkTheSaneBut between regularly transmuting, buying gems with honor, and converting stone keepers shards -> marks -> honor, i havent bought an epic gem in a long while
00:06.59WobWorkhm, I wonder if I can afford a mammoth yet
00:07.14NightHawkTheSanewhich reminds me. i should toss some of my epic gems on the AH
00:07.47ckknightDagmar: so you want to eat the flesh of Verizon execs?
00:07.58Dagmarckknight: If that becomes an option, hell yes
00:08.03DagmarSprint, too
00:08.05ckknightom nom nom
00:08.17Gnarfozbbq is on? NICE.
00:08.41DagmarI went through WAY too much bullshit to get a PDA/Phone and not be forced to double my phone bill
00:29.41PolarinaDoes anyone have well-designed API to abstract around a single frame for event listening?
00:30.48PolarinaI had this API that you register an event, and it keeps calling the callback function until it returns false.
00:31.14YssarilPolarina: you want a simple event handler built around a frame?
00:31.28PolarinaSomething like that.
00:31.35PolarinaWell, that is, it only uses a single frame.
00:32.25foxlitI use http://go-hero.net/opie/api/EventLib, but, really, write your own code. It's only a few lines, you aren't going to win much by outsourcing it.
00:32.33cbreakI always write them myself
00:32.38cbreakevent handling is very easy
00:33.07cbreakin it's newest incarnation, it uses an event dispatch table :)
00:33.57foxlitI'm actually pretty sure my implementation is bugged.
00:33.58YssarilPolarina: http://paste.wowace.com/1566/ thats basically what i use
00:34.01foxlitBut I've just never hit that bug
00:34.24Jerubsigh.
00:34.40PolarinaYssaril: :)
00:34.59Yssarilsimple enough?
00:35.01foxlitPersonally, the if is for cowards.
00:35.09PolarinaYssaril: Probably.
00:35.19foxlitIf you're registering events you aren't handling, you deserve an error message.
00:36.31WobWorkI think I've figured out my base complaint about DPS pulling in random pugs
00:36.42PolarinaI was looking for something that calls several callback functions upon a certain event.
00:36.48Jerubsigh, posted a video to my wow blog, but it's not come up and there's no error message. I think i broke their transcoder or something
00:36.51WobWorkeven if you -can- tank as, say a demonform warlock
00:36.56WobWorkI'm not going to heal you
00:37.05WobWorkbecause -you- are not going to be able to save me if I get healing aggro
00:37.11WobWorkwhereas the tank will
00:37.12YssarilPolarina: why whould you want that?
00:37.32foxlitYssaril: occasionally, you have more than one functional area interested in the same event.
00:37.41PolarinaYssaril: Modules. Got several files that register themselves as modules. And I wish it to be easy to program new modules.
00:37.54Yssarilahhh
00:37.59foxlitSo for any addons above ~200 lines, you'd want to split up event handling in blocks that relate to each other rather than append code to one function.
00:38.32foxlitWobWork: personally, I'd blame the tank.
00:38.55WobWorkfoxlit: for?
00:38.58foxlitWobWork: if DPS has to pull, the tank isn't pulling fast enough.
00:39.02WobWorknot pulling fast enough? sure
00:39.08WobWorkBlame him if you want
00:39.13WobWorkbut I'm still not going to heal you =P
00:39.18WobWorkI'll res you.
00:39.19WobWorkMaybe
00:39.20foxlitYou'll never be in my group.
00:39.26foxlitSo we're square that way :)
00:39.35WobWorkfoxlit: probably, unless you're in my battlegroup =P
00:39.35Yssarilfoxlit: i have had DPS pulling on me when i was pulling 2 groups at a time (that was damn anoying)
00:39.43foxlitWobWork: no, I'm just a healer.
00:39.44Polarinaimplements double-linked lists.
00:39.50WobWorkbut as a healer, fuck you, dps if you want to pull
00:39.58Jerubif I have a DPS who consistently pulls, and ignores me when i ask him to stop, i stop pulling agro and let him tank.
00:40.02Jerubthen teabag him after he dies.
00:40.12YssarilWobWork: same as a tank if you realy want it that much its yours :P
00:40.32foxlitFor most parts, I can heal a dps through a mob or two rather easily.
00:40.52Legorolnot the dps/tank speed discussion again
00:40.58WobWorkfoxlit: sure. But if you get aggro from healing
00:41.02WobWorkis the dps going to save -you-?
00:41.05foxlitWobWork: then I get to heal myself.
00:41.13foxlitThough, frankly, I wonder what the tank is doing meanwhile.
00:41.19WobWorkI'd prefer not to get into the situation =P
00:41.27foxlitThere's always Shadowmeld.
00:42.18foxlitThere are various degrees of irresponsibility I'm prepared to accept. What I'm not prepared to accept is people attempting to teach others on principle.
00:42.30Legorolwhatever happened to the age old idea of teamwork?
00:42.51JerubLegorol: chainpulling entire instnaces as fast as possible.
00:43.02YssarilLegorol: it stayed an idea :P
00:43.10WobWorkfoxlit: The dps are trying to teach the tank to chainpull
00:43.11foxlit[Though that's probably because I catch myself doing that occasionally -- and that sucks.]
00:43.22LegorolYssaril: heh
00:43.29WobWorkon principal, if I don't teach them that I won't heal them, they'll keep trying to do it
00:43.35foxlitWobWork: the DPS are trying to do their jobs and kill everything fast. The teaching is a sideeffect.
00:43.40Legorolfoxlit: i tend to teach people on matter of principle, and as a result end up an arrogant ass
00:43.43foxlitLetting someone die is /not/ doing your job.
00:43.51WobWorkin reality, I'll be like, "Oh sorry, I was waiting for the tank. WHY WEREN'T YOU?"
00:43.54JerubI only let people die after a warning.
00:43.55WobWorknope
00:44.09Legorolcase in point: someone joins party as dps role, in blue/green tank gear. Manages to do 450 dps. I tell him to get out, or I will be tanking in similar quality dps gear (I'm the tank)
00:44.12WobWorkdps not dying to their own stupidity is their own responisibility
00:44.21WobWorkThat is their job
00:44.35foxlitCan you prevent them from dying?
00:44.36WobWorktheir job is to do damage, but not to the point where they are taking it
00:44.44Jerubundergeared dps in heroics is fine.
00:44.46WobWork-My- job is to keep the tank up
00:44.51Jerubundergeared dps who dn't know their class is fail.
00:44.54WobWorkand heal incidental damage
00:44.55foxlitIf yes, and you chose not to do so, we disagree on the right thing to do here.
00:45.13WobWorkfoxlit: if the end result is a dead healer and a dead dps
00:45.14JerubThe *first* kitty in 100+ pug members was yesterday. He was having trouble pulling 1.1k in half epics.
00:45.17WobWorkthen yes. I won't heal them
00:45.29Jerubit upset me so much i tried to give him a tutorial on how to play his class mid dungeon.
00:45.44Jerub(and he told me a lie about how he was button mashing because he was highly lagged)
00:45.44foxlitWobWork: it very frequently is not.
00:45.47WobWorkcause fuck it if -I'm- going to pay repair bills for dps stupidity
00:45.54*** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper (n=Spellsha@dslb-084-057-253-236.pools.arcor-ip.net)
00:46.01foxlitIn the end, we simply disagree there.
00:46.07WobWorkWhy should the -healer- be responsible for the dps not doing their job?
00:46.17WobWorkIt's the tank's job to pull
00:46.18WobWorknot the dps
00:46.23foxlitI say to heck with it, we'll sort things out /when/ we die. You say you'll let people die to avoid finding out whether anyone will die.
00:46.28WobWorkit's the dps's job not to get aggro
00:46.42WobWorkif they are deliberately pulling
00:46.49WobWorkthen they can tank as best they can
00:46.58WobWorkI will continue to do my job
00:47.03WobWorkand heal the tank
00:47.15foxlitYou have an annoyingly narrow definition of your job.
00:47.21WobWorkno
00:47.25foxlit[in my view.]
00:47.30WobWorkI have a narrow definition of my -responsiblity-
00:47.43WobWorkI have a definite definition of the dps' responsibility
00:47.50WobWorkand if -they- don't keep up with what they're supposed to do
00:47.53WobWorkI don't have to either
00:48.02WobWorkespecially in cross realm pugs
00:48.13kdtreshif the tank dies, it's the healer's fault. if the healer dies, it's the tank's fault. if the dps dies, it's their own damn fault
00:48.17WobWorklife's too short to stress about healing them
00:48.17foxlitTank's job is to prevent people from dying to threat, healer's job is to prevent people from dying to damage, and dps' job is to kill things as fast as possible.
00:48.23WobWorkno
00:48.35JerubWobWork++
00:48.40WobWorkdps' job is to do damage, and not -take- it
00:48.43foxlitIn general, everyone's goal is to complete the instance as fast as possible. How you do that, I don't care.
00:48.51WobWorkdps' job is to not out threat the tank
00:49.41WobWorkfoxlit: do you play a warlock?
00:49.48foxlitWobWork: No, I play a resto druid.
00:50.11WobWorkdo you play any dps?
00:50.24foxlitNot during this expansion.
00:50.28WobWorkah
00:50.29GinjiAs a rogue it's my job to pick up the slack of my failing tank
00:50.33WobWorkwell that explains a lot =P
00:50.55foxlitI'm not sure about that, really. You want to make a point that you're intolerant because you haven't played anything else? :)
00:50.57WobWorksurely, in your time as a dps, you've had to hold back dps soas not to out threat the tank?
00:51.01GinjiAnd pugging halls of reflection can be hard!
00:51.07foxlitYes.
00:51.10WobWorkso
00:51.18GinjiWobWork: only with fail tanks
00:51.19Jerubi refuse to do HoR unless i've tested the group in PoS
00:51.19WobWorkwhy is that not a reason for fail dps?
00:51.21foxlitSo it's not my job to ensure that other people are doing their jobs.
00:51.49WobWorkI'm not paying for other people's failing
00:51.50foxlitThey can pull threat if they like. It might mean their funeral, they could learn that way. But I'm not going to let them die to teach them.
00:52.05WobWorkWhy should -I- pay repair bills?
00:52.08foxlitI don't think I've ever had to.
00:52.09WobWorkfor other failing?
00:52.18WobWorkfoxlit: I'm talking about specific situations =P
00:52.21kdtreshbut if the tank needs heals, and that means the dps dies, that's the choice the healer has to make
00:52.26WobWorkwhere dps pull when the tank isn't even there
00:52.32WobWorkor when the tank is busy
00:52.37GinjiI can do that, I'm a rogue
00:52.39Jerubwell managed dps hit the target that the tank is building threat on, it's exceptionally easy for a dps to grab threat by targetting something not being hit hard by the tank's AOE
00:52.51WobWorkGinji: no, you're essentially misdirecting
00:52.52GinjiI can do that too, I'm a rogue
00:53.03Jerubkdtresh: in HToC black knight fight, i let undergeared DPS die.
00:53.11Jerubkdtresh: almost intentionally, makes healing less frantic.
00:53.31WobWorkI am not going to stress myself out because a dps feels he can tank
00:53.31kdtreshi pop shield/sacrifice about 10 seconds into phase 3 and it makes it a lot easier
00:53.41foxlitWobWork: can he tank, though?
00:53.58WobWorkI'm not going to get healing aggro from that when they fail
00:54.02WobWorkcause invariably they do
00:54.13foxlitI'm willing to find out. Until I die from it, of course, but that has not happened yet.
00:54.18WobWorkyes
00:54.22WobWorkyou see, I -have- died from it
00:54.33WobWorkso it's not a 'narrow definition' of my job
00:54.57WobWorkIt's a "I don't want to do that again, cause it pisses me off to have to pay for other people's stupidity"
00:55.36kdtreshthere's a difference between giving dps a low priority for heals and purposefully NOT healing them when it wouldn't cause a problem
00:55.40foxlitWhatever happened to the age old idea of teamwork?
00:56.10foxlitPerhaps another point of interest is what you think will happen if you let that person die.
00:56.34foxlitIf they've just pulled 17 packs that nobody else has threat on, you might be justified in not having anything to do with it.
00:56.34WobWorkfoxlit: teamwork means that people work -together- towards a common goal, with the best tactics
00:56.49foxlitCompensate for each others shortcomings, surely?
00:56.53WobWorkfoxlit: if they accidentally back into a patrol, of -course- I'm going to heal them
00:57.10foxlitIf they pull a pack that they feel they can handle, with your help?
00:57.12WobWorkif they deliberately run into the patrol, when there are already 10 mobs on the tank
00:57.16WobWorkthen they're on their own
00:57.41WobWorkbecause I'm too busy to have to chain heal them when they get critted 5 times in a row
00:57.45WobWorkat which point they run to me
00:57.56WobWorkbecause dps -can- get one/two shot quite easily
00:58.03DagmarThat's generally my cue to feign death right there.
00:58.13WobWorkDagmar: at which point they run to me
00:58.19WobWorkand beat me into a paste
00:58.24WobWorkbecause I have healing aggro from healing you
00:58.27foxlitWobWork: if the dps dies, who do the mobs run to anyway?
00:58.34WobWorkthe healer
00:58.50foxlitSo your position isn't much improved by a party member corpse.
00:58.53WobWorkbecause if I was healing them, I have a higher aggro than the tank
00:59.03WobWorkbut if I -don't- heal them
00:59.03DagmarNo see, you've got the order backwards.  If I see 'em go after the healer beyond what I can concievably detail, I cut my losses.
00:59.03kdtresheven if you aren't healing them, you will pull it
00:59.12foxlitYou'd have a higher threat anyway, since you're healing the tank.
00:59.15durcynah, progress. http://www.autoblog.com/2009/12/16/unintended-consequence-of-technology-new-led-traffic-lights-can/
00:59.28WobWorkfoxlit: but not more so than the tank can handle
00:59.38DagmarHealer gets massive aggro from some clueless mage or lock, they die, healer has aggro?  I can buy about six seconds and then I'm out
00:59.43WobWorkif I've dropped 20k of chain heals on the dps
00:59.50WobWorkthat's 20k of threat the tank has to overcome
00:59.59WobWorkinstead of 5k of ambient healing aggro
01:00.10cbreakmages can only get agro for themselves, not priests
01:00.32WobWorkcbreak: no, healing aggro from trying to keep the dps up
01:00.39DagmarLaat night we had two hunters, a mage, a preist, and a paladin
01:00.44DagmarThere was no way the paladin was losing aggro
01:00.46cbreak... if they actually get hit, they die and it's their own fault
01:00.53WobWorkthis is my point
01:00.56DagmarEvery time things got hairy we'd start misdirecting with Volley.  Yay!
01:01.04cbreakin the cases where I pull agro, I do mirror image or invis to drop it again
01:01.12WobWorkDagmar: I love the new misdirect changes
01:01.12cbreakand if I actually survive, I am hapy
01:01.17cbreakif not, it was my own fault
01:01.22DagmarHell once I ran right next to the paladin and hit that combo just to be sure
01:01.38WobWorkcbreak: I don't really mind -accidental- aggro
01:01.40foxlitcbreak: our discussion was about whether the healer should be trying to improve your chances of survival in that case.
01:01.49WobWorkI've said that =P
01:01.54WobWorkI mind -deliberate- aggro
01:01.55cbreakmaybe with a shield or BoP
01:01.59Dagmarcbreka: How you liking it when those hunters in Failrik/Marvin feigh right after you pop mirror images?
01:02.05DagmarMy gf was not amused by that.  Hehe
01:02.06WobWorkif, say, cbreak felt things were moving too slowly
01:02.16WobWorkand decided to pull the next pack by himself
01:02.16Jerubi've noticed in HoR that the healer is the one doing the pull most of the time
01:02.16WobWorkI would not heal him
01:02.20Jeruband the tank has to take them off the healer before they get LOS
01:02.31foxlitAnd I would.
01:02.43WobWorkJerub: there's so much frantic healing in HoR...><
01:02.45cbreakI can just do /rw Tank, go fetch us some mobs!
01:02.51*** join/#wowuidev Osagasu (n=Creek@67-197-1-37.rh1.dyn.cm.comporium.net)
01:02.51WobWorkexactly
01:02.52foxlitGood thing me and WobWork will never meet, or we'd cancel each other out :)
01:02.54cbreakyay for being raid leader
01:02.57WobWorkwhich is -what- dps should be doing
01:03.09*** join/#wowuidev AbsolutRayne (n=chatzill@74.127.239.30)
01:03.13WobWorkunless you have a surefire way of making sure the tank has threat, don't pull =P
01:03.16Dagmar"There's so much frantic _______ in HoR"
01:03.18cbreakin the early days I often let sheep pulls or md pulls be made
01:03.22DagmarYou can pretty much put any word you like in there.
01:03.23WobWork(and make sure the tank -wants- to tank at the time)
01:03.26cbreakbut these days, people don't want to pull :(
01:03.40cbreakthey run in, aoe tank, and dps aoe dpses
01:03.52WobWorkI miss the days of chain CC
01:04.01DagmarWell, we've had not terribly much problem doing either
01:04.08WobWorkI used to place frosttrapped mobs in some unusual places, just for the hell of it
01:04.11Jerubthe only time i see CC used on trash mobs is ulduar
01:04.12WobWorkit was like ... art =P
01:04.31Jerubsheeping after XT
01:04.45DagmarThat upslope halfway through HoR with the six- or seven-pulls, that's a good place for CC.  So is Failrik/Marvin
01:05.11foxlitI wonder if s-rik is pinged on failrik.
01:05.12WobWorkhehe failrik
01:05.17WobWork~failrik
01:05.17purlFAIL, Shirik, FAIL!
01:05.25Shirikwhat did I do?
01:05.31WobWorknothing =)
01:05.32DagmarI thought at first that guy was _named_ Failrik
01:05.39JerubDagmar: wait, HoR?
01:05.45foxlitAnd the patch was Fail of the Lich King, clearly.
01:05.47JerubDagmar: upslope?
01:05.56foxlitJerub: run-away-from-LK part.
01:05.57WobWorkit totally looked like that!
01:05.58DagmarJerub: Yeah after you beat Ick and Eck
01:05.59JerubDagmar: oh, the dps race with the walls?
01:06.03DagmarNooo...
01:06.15foxlitWait, that's not HoR!
01:06.17Jerubyou mean PoS
01:06.20NightHawkTheSaneDagmar: you mean PoS
01:06.31durcynyour acronyms are stupid.
01:06.35WobWorkoh yeah before the tunnel
01:06.37DagmarI'm talking about right as you leave Ick and Eck's area, and there's some jibber-jabber about how strong the armies are, and there's that uplope
01:06.40Jerubthere are 6 pulls? there are only 2 there.
01:06.42*** part/#wowuidev taleden (n=alex@user-38q41i6.cable.mindspring.com)
01:06.47foxlitfour.
01:06.49DagmarI was _not_ saying the upslope was in HoR
01:06.51Jeruboh, ther'e's 4 before.
01:07.02NightHawkTheSanetheres's 4, but only 2 are a pain
01:07.06Jerub11:04 < Dagmar> That upslope halfway through HoR with the six- or seven-pulls, that's a good place for CC.  So is Failrik/Marvin
01:07.08DagmarI'm talking about the number of mobs involved in the pull
01:07.21Jeruboh, those.. yeah
01:07.21DagmarOkay that would be the lack of caffiene then
01:07.28ZorbaTHutI kind of like those pulls honestly
01:07.30Jerub2 sets of 5, then 2 sets of 7.
01:07.35foxlitsix or seven-mob pulls, I presume.
01:07.36ZorbaTHutthey're absolute bitches, but they let me be awesome
01:07.42DagmarYeah, they're rough
01:07.46WobWorkawesome is good
01:07.50foxlitMeh, I still find time to Hurrricane.
01:07.51NightHawkTheSanethey're only rough if the dps is bad, really
01:07.53JerubZorbaTHut: how do you move the casters so they're closer together?
01:07.57DagmarEither you AoE like mad, or you spam out some CC, possibly even _both)_
01:08.02NightHawkTheSaneif you the dps focus fires and interrupts correctly, its near trivial
01:08.04WobWorkunfortunately CC became less of a viable option when it came to DK tanking
01:08.04ZorbaTHutjerub, heroic throw/shield bash
01:08.09Jerubhm.
01:08.10DagmarI'll freezing arrow anyone not joining in on the melee just to keep them from casting
01:08.22ZorbaTHutcharge/intercept/intervene to dodge around quickly
01:08.26foxlitBut the six-pulls of skeletons are trivial.
01:08.27Jerubas a bear, i don't have any mob movement. I want deathgrip style stuff.
01:08.33WobWorkeven as the healer, I'm throwing out interrupts to get them closer =P
01:08.34ZorbaTHutgot an interrupt?
01:08.37ZorbaTHut'cause that works on casters.
01:08.43JerubZorbaTHut: to move them?
01:08.45foxlitYou can lock the first caster, and kill the second relatively quickly; the melee are essentially boring.
01:08.47NightHawkTheSaneZorbaTHut: bears dont have one thats not a stun
01:08.50DagmarNot one that lasts for 20s I don't
01:08.53ZorbaTHutnighthawk, ah, pity
01:08.57Jeruboooh, because they melee while their spells are on CD?
01:09.01ZorbaTHutjerub, exactly
01:09.01WobWorkyeah
01:09.03WobWorkor locked out
01:09.05ZorbaTHutbut I guess it doesn't work for you
01:09.16Jerubi have one technique that works that i found by accident.
01:09.17NightHawkTheSaneZorbaTHut: yeah, bear tanking is.. fearl charge -> swipe spam -> pray
01:09.25Jerubbut i hestitate to explain it to a group.
01:09.26DagmarI may have to swap out a glyph to see if i can get back to back traps for in there
01:09.34DagmarI don't really like that 8s gap
01:09.40JerubI start the combat, don't pull threat, and let the healer pull threat.....
01:09.49ZorbaTHutyeah, bear tanking always seemed like the only situation with druid forms where they really did oversimplify significantly
01:09.54Jerubthe mobs all have to run to get in range, and at that point i can aoe all at once.
01:10.10ZorbaTHuttree healing is interesting, moonkin DPS is perhaps not incredibly diverse but is at least non-trivial, cat DPS is . . . unique
01:10.18ZorbaTHutbear tanking is just, hey, here's your button.
01:10.20ZorbaTHutpush it.
01:10.22WobWorkJOHN FUCKING MADDEN!
01:10.23NightHawkTheSaneZorbaTHut: the simplicity is only bad/frustrating when it comes to mob-manipuation (interrupts, snares, etc)
01:10.24Jerubkitty DPS rewards true talent.
01:10.48ZorbaTHutnighthawk, see, me and a friend started playing warrior/priest solely because they seemed like the most complicated and interesting non-dps classes.
01:10.53WobWorkI've seen some awesome kitty dps
01:11.01ZorbaTHutas far as I'm concerned, "simple" is bad :)
01:11.03WobWorkand they just look cool calm and collected
01:11.08Jeruband it's disappointing when i see it done badly.
01:11.08WobWorkjust like any proper cat
01:11.17JerubI nearly shot a cat last night for sucking.
01:11.19NightHawkTheSaneZorbaTHut: thats a fair opinion, but it is an opinion. :)
01:11.34Jerubbaseline DPS for kitty is 1200dps. I can pull that in 100% healer gear + kitty talents.
01:11.36WobWorksimple is boring
01:11.39ZorbaTHutnighthawk, oh, definitely an opinion. I do feel like no class should be able to lean on one button, though
01:11.39NightHawkTheSanei should have rephrased, i think, that the simplicity of bear tanking is only a real detriment in those cases :P
01:11.41JerubSo no kitty at 80 ever should ever get underthat.
01:11.52ZorbaTHutlike, holy paladin - too simple.
01:12.15WobWorkI've never succesfully gotten a pally past lvl 20
01:12.15Jerubthis kitty i had in my heroic last night was doing 1100-1300 dps.
01:12.17NightHawkTheSaneI like simple, sometimes, though
01:12.18WobWork=(
01:12.27Jerubwhich you can exceed just with 2 dots+shred with a bear tank.
01:12.31ZorbaTHutmy limit on simple is Fury
01:12.34NightHawkTheSanesimple can occasionally mean "knowing how to use what little you have to the best effect"
01:12.37ZorbaTHutsimpler than that and I'll fall asleep.
01:12.38DagmarLemme guess, he was practicing his unarmed skill?
01:12.51JerubDagmar: impossible. in cat form your skill is locked at max
01:12.53NightHawkTheSaneholy pallies are kind of that, but the content & mana situation makes it dumb
01:13.11DagmarJerub: Never understimate what an ebayer can accomplish
01:13.37ZorbaTHutdagmar, one of my friends was grumbling that he'd done some oldworld content with a destro lock
01:13.39DagmarThere are levels of stupid out there that are so deep and dark that diamonds will form
01:13.56ZorbaTHutthey ran up against a fire-immune boss and the lock was screaming about how terrible blizzard was because the boss was immune to all his abilities
01:14.06Dagmarheheh exactly
01:14.16ZorbaTHutturned out he literally did not realize that he had a spellbook, he'd purchased the character off ebay and just assumed his bar was all there was
01:14.22DagmarSome folks get VERY stubborn about moving outside of their comfort zone
01:14.39DagmarMy gf the frost mage gets very vocal in her complaints about things which are immune to frostbold
01:14.41ZorbaTHutand since destro doesn't use shadow anything, as far as he knew, he literally didn't have those abilities.
01:14.45Dagmars/bold/bolt/;.
01:15.05foxlitEbay is clearly a villain :)
01:15.09DagmarI'm always like, "You still have a fireball, right?  Cast that.  Who cares if it's slower"
01:15.19ZorbaTHutyeah, about the only thing I literally will refuse to try is tanking physical-immune creatures
01:15.37ZorbaTHutand, I mean, you really want me to, I suppose I'll give it a shot, but it ain't gonna work
01:15.44DagmarRun up and sit.
01:15.46NightHawkTheSaneDagmar: frostfire bolt wouldl be better, but yes :)
01:16.10DagmarI'm just glad nothing's really able to spell-reflect bullets
01:16.25DagmarDBM has saved me some self-kills this week
01:16.52DagmarThree face is down to 6%, mirrored souls is cast on me and I'm all ready to smack that Kill Shot button
01:16.56foxlitWouldn't switching to AM if you're frost-specced be less painful?
01:17.02foxlitIt's at least an instant gratification spell
01:17.08DagmarThis is generally the time you get those awesome 12k crits
01:17.08ZorbaTHutI still think spell reflect is seriously one of the most fantastic buttons in the game. it is just so much fun in so many situations
01:17.10kd3doesn't have AM on any of his bars
01:17.13kd3dagmar; I love that
01:17.26kd3I've blown myself up on both sets of reflecting mobs in FoS
01:17.27Dagmarkd3: I did it once.  NOT AGAIN I WON'T
01:17.33ZorbaTHutspell reflect death grip: literally the best thing ever
01:17.40DagmarThe party was amazed at how fast i went down
01:17.52NightHawkTheSaneI like watching arcane mages get gigantic AB crits on themselves in FOS
01:17.57Krapsbahahaha http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=21724989985&sid=1
01:18.01foxlitJust spam AoE on those mobs
01:18.10foxlitPasses through spell reflection just fine :)
01:18.31ZorbaTHutkraps, hahah
01:18.40Dagmar" And he will have a very small chance to drop a coconut mount." <-- me want
01:18.55ZorbaTHutjust reskin mimiron's head to be coconut-textured
01:19.39kd3kraps; omg win
01:19.42*** part/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk)
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01:20.47Dagmar67 million HP... I suppose we'll have a spot in the middle where he'll wave a stand down flag so we can go pee and have a nap or something
01:20.51NightHawkTheSanehttp://www.thereisnopagefold.com/
01:21.15PProvostStrange question: Anyone know if SetCurrentTitle() has changed in 3.3?
01:21.24PProvostMy code doesn't fail, but it also doesn't do anything. It worked in 3.2.
01:21.26PProvostWeird
01:21.32foxlitPProvost: yes, it was.
01:21.35PProvost?
01:22.01JerubAnd he will have a very small chance to drop a coconut mount.
01:22.01foxlitIt now requires hardware interaction.
01:22.09JerubI WANT A COCONUT MOUNT! !$!$@!$@!$@!$@!$@!
01:22.17DagmarSee? It's not just me
01:22.19PProvostYou are kidding me. Title change is secured?
01:22.34foxlitPProvost: You're still welcome to run it from insecure code.
01:22.42foxlitYou just cannot use it from OnUpdate/OnEvent entry points.
01:22.53PProvostWhy?
01:23.10foxlitBecause switching titles automatically is bad -- so ruleth the blizzard.
01:23.46foxlitBut seriously, why are you changing your title? :)
01:23.57Jerubi would've liked to have random titles.
01:23.58cbreakmaybe he's a jenkins
01:24.00PProvostI have a little addon that changes it every 5 mins
01:24.03cbreakI'd change the title too if I was
01:24.05NightHawkTheSanebecause random titles is amusing?
01:24.06PProvostrandomly
01:24.13foxlitCongratulations, they officially broke your addon.
01:24.23JerubI just go with 'the patient' and have my pug pet out at the moment to display to the observant that i'm experienced at the LFD thing
01:24.59foxlitNightHawkTheSane: if it was something like "I want to be Chef Jenkins while cooking," we could've come up with some workaround.
01:25.16foxlitIf it's a purely timer thing, you're out of luck -- you'll have to pop up a button that you can then click to achieve the effect.
01:25.28foxlitMaybe you can hook some OnClick that you trigger regularly anyway.
01:25.33PProvostIt just seems weird.
01:25.34NightHawkTheSanefoxlit: i was merely answering the question. :)
01:25.48foxlitMm :)
01:26.07DagmarSEgui might be able to be coaxed into doing that with a moderate level of fuss and bother
01:26.17foxlitPProvost: the specific behavior that they probably wanted to avoid is people changing their titles every 0.5s
01:26.26PProvostSure
01:26.37PProvostThrottle coulda solved that
01:26.39PProvostMeh
01:26.48foxlitThrottle would've hit other people.
01:26.57foxlitThis only hits people who want to switch titles on a timer.
01:27.51ShadowedI don
01:27.58ShadowedThrottling is just an extra pain to do anyway
01:28.08Shadowedeasier to flat out protect it for them
01:28.09kd3...who the hell was switching titles onupdate?
01:29.31WobWorkI... would totally do a Golden Girls raid
01:29.33foxlitI'm sure that if you were to search wowi, you'd find an addon or two.
01:29.45NechcknIs there a Euro type http://ThinkGeek.Com or something along those lines?
01:30.07foxlithttp://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info12496-AutoTitler.html#info
01:32.48WobWorkactually... an epic mount where it's merely the character clapping two halves of a coconut together, but moving at epic mount speed... would be utterly awesome
01:33.00Jerubaaaages ago someone said they had a hacked up oUF_Grid that showed lines between healer and healeee.
01:33.09JerubI /really/ want that. does anyone remember what it was called?
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01:34.55kd3whee; so glad I don't have a crackberry
01:35.10foxlitNechckn: google says http://www.getdigital.de/
01:35.12kd3another outage all over the states?
01:36.29NightHawkTheSanehah: http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2009/12/17/temporary-road-closure
01:36.57Nechcknfoxlit  I was hoping someone could recommend one they have used - will check it out, though.
01:40.37frontendloaderyou can't concatenate in a table key can you?
01:40.49frontendloadermyTable["item:"..i] ?
01:42.45kd3nhts; lmao 6 years?
01:42.57TorhalPProvost: The reason this was done is that UNIT_NAME_UPDATE fires when a title changes, which means CPU churn in 4-man raids.
01:43.11TorhalOr 25 for that matter
01:43.31kd3not that we're not getting 38405 other events every second in raids...
01:43.50foxlitI thought people just found it annoying.
01:43.55Torhalkd3: When a UnitFrame AddOn has to re-draw every single frame in response to that event...it's heinous.
01:44.06foxlit"redraw" is harsh.
01:44.15TorhalUpdate :P
01:44.19foxlitEvery single frame has to be redrawn every single frame anyway
01:44.33foxlitDoesn't it have a unit argument anyway?
01:44.37TorhalI know. Improper terminology FTW
01:44.56foxlitSo it's only one frame?
01:45.35Torhalfoxlit: You'd be better off finding out from Shefki - those AddOns were tearing PB4 a new one. Phanx also recently changed Grid to unregister it as well due to the same thing.
01:46.24NightHawkTheSanekd3: yeah :) as the post says, they're putting in a light rail station, so its understandable.. but what a hell of a sign. :)
01:47.06foxlitHm, that's interesting. I seem to ignore its arguments if it has any.
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01:48.36foxlitBut it does have an argument, so dunno.
01:51.39DagmarI don't get why they're putting out a mobile/temporary sign for something that's going to take six years to complete.
01:51.56foxlitPerhaps the permanent sign is taking too long to manufacture.
01:52.11DagmarThat kinda says something about the six years, too
01:54.53NightHawkTheSaneDagmar: *shrug* because they only really need a sign up until the date where they tear it up?
01:55.03NightHawkTheSaneby that point, it'll be freaking obvious. :P
01:55.49NightHawkTheSanealso, the pace of getting real transit into seattle is a fucking mess. so the pace of getting a sign or a station up is the least of it
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02:05.14A-KOmassive failure on saurfang 25
02:13.40Shirikok I'm sorry, but this is fucking awesome http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZyq1wNDwUU
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02:34.17DagmarShirik: I'm sorry, the little aqua dots shown in the Related Videos section is much cooler.
02:34.37DagmarAny kids toy that produces GHB in the normal course of being played with is an automatic win.
02:50.28WobWorkhttp://twitter.com/neilhimself/status/6781330576
02:52.29NightHawkTheSane"YOu know what we call 3.8 million people in New York? The lunch rush at the Shake Shack!"
02:52.39NightHawkTheSanei seriously <3 jon stewart http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2009/12/17/the-daily-show-on-health-care-reform-clusterfuckfest
02:53.21WobWorkhm
02:53.23WobWork"Now we can boost even more M&S."
02:53.30WobWorkused in context (dungeon finder discussion)
02:53.34WobWorkM&S?
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02:53.45NightHawkTheSane*shrug*
03:01.47Nechckn<PROTECTED>
03:05.10bleetercogwheel: cheers, but you are quite right it's already tomorrow ;)
03:05.55WobWorkIt's been tomorrow for 14 hours =\
03:07.16Jerubcan someone explain to me what 'the public option' is ?
03:07.35*** join/#wowuidev Aiiane (n=Aiiane@starfire.ST.HMC.Edu)
03:08.34kd3healthcare paid for by the guvmint (and thus, our tax dollars)
03:08.51kd3(note: the white house does not want the public option, no matter what the republicans are saying)
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03:10.01Jeruboh interesting.
03:10.28kd3in the context of the "health" "care" "reform" bill, that is
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03:15.18Shirikholy shit
03:15.33Shiriklua> 153*8/34
03:15.34lua_botShirik: 36
03:15.42ShirikI just downloaded a file at 36Mbps o.o
03:15.49kd3die
03:16.44PolarinaShirik: I've downloaded at 7 MiB/s.
03:17.58Sixen~kd3
03:18.04digmouse2MB/s was scary enough for me
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03:21.14kd3ah damn it
03:21.15kd3occulus
03:27.02PolarinaIs there a list of level required for an instance (as defined by the LFG tool)?
03:28.09JerubPolarina: dunno as defined by the LFG tool, but i use http://www.wowwiki.com/Instances_by_level when i want to know what dungeon to take a guild mate through
03:28.32PolarinaOk, thanks.
03:34.49A-KOwe are failing hardcore at saurfang 25 :/
03:35.23Jerubhm, i'll probably never see the end of icc. i'm not in a raiding guild, and pugs never continue where they left off.
03:36.33PolarinaJerub: :(
03:37.28Jerubalthough, at this rate, i'll never see past marrowgar. I've been in some /fail/ pugs
03:37.44Jerubbut my toc10 last night gave me hope. it was /so/ much easier than when i started pugging it.
03:38.10Polarinais going for a tier 5 for her cut low-level priest.
03:38.13Jerubeveryone's wearing their pretty new gear from triumph handins and there isn't a raid healer left who isn't in 226+
03:38.31Polarinas/cut/cute/
03:40.01JerubPolarina: low level?
03:40.07Jerubas in, in the process of levelling?
03:40.09PolarinaJerub: Level 39.
03:40.14PolarinaJerub: Yes.
03:40.15Jerubtwink?
03:40.46PolarinaNo, main! :D
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03:44.53PolarinaJerub: No, yes! A twink! I am going to level to 80 and twink it!
03:45.01Jerubhahaha
03:45.24Jerubi twinked at 70 by not buying wotlk for a month before my wife also got to 70
03:45.33Jerubit was stressing her out that i was levelling faster than her
03:46.17Shirikhas canolis
03:46.20Shiriksooooooooooo goooooood
03:47.07Jerubi'm sorry to hear that Shirik.
03:47.13JerubDid the doctor say if it was treatable?
03:47.31Shirik...
03:47.33Shirikdude
03:47.35Shirikcanolis are aweoms
03:47.43Shirikdo not insult my italian heritage!
03:48.04ShirikI can also feel myself gaining 20 pounds by eating one
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03:48.45Jerubi'm pretty sure in my mongrel heritage i'm italian too, so screw you.
03:49.20Shirikdo not insult your own heritage!
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03:50.52WobWorkShirik: who better to?
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03:56.22VonhintenHOME`Does Saurfang DEFINITELY have a frontal multi-target hit/cleave?
03:56.30VonhintenHOME`Because our tanks aren't seeing it
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04:06.55A-KOdont' think he does
04:06.59A-KObut he does rock face
04:07.19WobWorkis that when you squinch up your eyes
04:07.21WobWorkand throw the horns?
04:11.46Krapsnvm Ackis
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04:14.30Shirikhahaha fuck saurfang
04:14.35Shirikon our kill, I got the debuff first
04:14.45Shirikso looking back at the logs now, I did 70% of my healing with binding heal
04:14.49DWSRShirik: He's a joke.
04:15.00Shiriknearly 800k binding heal
04:15.05DWSRO_O
04:15.22Shirik#2 heal: Flash heal with just over 100k
04:15.30DWSRLOL
04:15.39DWSRShirik: Your raid had no holy pallies?
04:15.47Shirikwe have one and a disc priest
04:16.02Shirikbut when a priest gets it, we have them use binding heal on the second person
04:16.10Shirikeasy to keep up two that way
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04:16.26DWSRShirik: Beacon is way better for keeping 2 people up
04:16.36ShirikI just realized
04:16.43Shirikthe pally we took is ... not the brightest in the head anyway
04:17.08Shirikhe primarily healed the two tanks
04:17.17ShirikTo me, the one that had the debuff the longest
04:17.21Shirikhe did a whopping 28k healing
04:17.26ShirikI can do that in two spells :P
04:17.41DWSRI can do that in one and I'm a warlock. Stop being a bad priest.
04:17.47Shirikwtf how
04:18.02DWSRShirik: gogo Fel Synergy.
04:18.26Shirik... that's cheating
04:18.58DagmarIt's not cheating if it owkrs
04:19.34kd3oh whee, rain's coming and we're in the low 40s and dropping
04:19.42kd3wonders whether we're out of milk, bread and beer yet
04:20.02DWSRShirik: You don't want to know what my self healing looks like in my PvP aff set.
04:20.13DWSRShirik: I did over 1m damage in an AB and had like 400k healing.
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04:20.42kd3ah, maybe not. we'll be above freezing
04:20.49kd3the northeast's about to get screwed over, though
04:22.05Shirikpsh
04:22.09Shirikonly 1m damage?
04:22.11ShirikPathetiC!
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04:24.37DWSRShirik: You can't do 1m healing.
04:24.43DWSRShirik: Did I mention we 4 capped that AB?
04:24.45ShirikI have
04:24.48Shirik1m is easy
04:25.38NightHawkTheSanewooo! got muradin's spyglass!
04:25.44DWSRGrats. :D
04:25.47DWSRThat's a hawt trinket.
04:25.49Shirikno
04:25.53Shirikyou know what's a hawt trinket?
04:25.59Shirikephermal snowflake
04:26.03NightHawkTheSaneconsidering it replaced my sundial of the exalted, yes, very hawt.
04:26.20Shirikhttp://www.wowhead.com/?item=50260 ftmfw
04:26.24Shirikit spams the hell out of SCT though
04:26.27NightHawkTheSaneShirik: yeah, seen it
04:26.30NightHawkTheSaneit is pretty nice
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04:27.07DWSRShirik: Get MSBT.
04:27.10ShirikBetween (1) my frequency of renew, (2) my +1 target to CoH glyph, (3) my glyphed PoH that does a HoT on hit, and (4) my 2-piece set bonus that adds a hot to every flash heal
04:27.16ShirikThat trinket is omgtehsexxxxx
04:27.51DWSRShirik: like I said, get MSBT. MSBT will group events like that
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04:28.12DWSRInstead of showing 4 messages of "2000 dmg from RoF" it will show 8000 [4 hits] from RoF"
04:28.30Thunder_Childso will parrot
04:29.12DWSRT_C: In my experience, a ton of addons seem to recognize MSBT as a message sink, I don't know if the same goes for Parrot.
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04:32.11DWSRStuff like Message Redirect, Gladius, Proculas, they all see MSBT as a message sink and will send messages there. Is there some kind of standard API for message sinks or is that coded specificaly into each addon?
04:33.06Thunder_Childdunno
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04:51.21WobWork1http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=3253
04:51.49Polarina33% of all the realms are down. :(
04:55.57AbsolutRayneHo hum
04:56.15AbsolutRayneJust finished Inglorious Basterds
05:00.00PolarinaCairenn: Midnight time! :D
05:00.10Cairennalready posted
05:00.11Cairenn;)
05:00.34PolarinaNice (and not nice, if you know what I mean).
05:00.40Polarina:P
05:02.25AbsolutRayne:( Not gonna get a Grunty
05:02.59Thunder_ChildCairenn:
05:03.01Thunder_ChildBACON
05:03.07CairennThunder_Child: hehehe
05:03.16PolarinaThunder_Child: As I said before, the list of words is predetermined.
05:03.26kd3but bacon should be one of them
05:03.54PolarinaCairenn: How many entires were there?
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05:04.50temCairenn, I wish you wouldn't promote this crap so well
05:05.06Cairenntem: heh
05:05.07Polarinatem: Haha!
05:05.34batrickdang thwarted again on the pet :(
05:05.40*** join/#wowuidev robotusch (n=robotusc@50A2D944.flatrate.dk)
05:10.11NightHawkTheSaneargh
05:10.22NightHawkTheSanegetting saurfang down to <10%... ><
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05:14.14JerubNightHawkTheSane: no, that's not right, you're supposed to get him all the way to 0%
05:14.18Jerubaim for 0% next time
05:14.23NightHawkTheSaneJerub: working on it.. :P
05:14.34Polarina0 HP or you fail!
05:14.36PolarinaThat's my rule.
05:14.37NightHawkTheSanewe get to ~10%ish, the 3 mark hits, and we kind of self destruct
05:15.19JerubNightHawkTheSane: that sounds like phase 2 marrowgar
05:15.27Jerubbut that's at 90%
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05:23.56PolarinaNice! LFG allows me to go to Maraudon at level 39. :P
05:23.58HjalteNightHawkTheSane: 25-man?
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05:26.26NightHawkTheSaneHjalte: 10
05:27.18HjalteNightHawkTheSane: Either your dps is pretty bad or you are letting adds hit people. It's not healthy for healers to have more than 2 marks.
05:27.45HjalteI'm not sure if we killed him on 10-man after or before the hotfix. Are you using 1 or 2 tanks?
05:27.47NightHawkTheSaneHjalte: I think it's a combination of the two.
05:27.51NightHawkTheSane2
05:28.17HjalteWe had one. We probably did it just before they fixed it.
05:28.21NightHawkTheSaneOur dps isnt bad, but i think it might be a touch low, and I think blood beasts are getting some attacks off
05:28.53HjalteNightHawkTheSane: You got a hunter and maybe a moonkin, mage or ele shaman?
05:28.59HjalteTrap and a knockback
05:29.13NightHawkTheSaneHjalte: hunter, arcane mage, and ele shaman (me)
05:29.21NightHawkTheSanein theory, we shouldn't be having problems :P
05:29.35NightHawkTheSanealthough i wish our arcane mage had slow ><
05:29.41HjalteDo you have a paladin healer?
05:29.51NightHawkTheSanepally & holy priest
05:30.01HjalteShould be easy dealing with adds then
05:30.25NightHawkTheSaneout of curiosity, what does the pally healer have to do with it?
05:30.47HjalteTrap in front of boss, paladin with threat thing on way back, you in the middle pushing the adds back once they get out of trap
05:32.53WobWork1hm
05:32.57WobWork1I miss playing my arcane mage
05:33.07WobWork1I might hop on him and do some lfd
05:34.17PolarinaWobWork1: :P
05:34.29*** join/#wowuidev Iriel (n=Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
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05:35.01Shirikwow, lightroom is really good at removing chromatic abberation
05:35.37Irielremoves Shirik's chromatic aberration
05:35.50Iriel(one b two r's)
05:35.50Shirikhas no chromatic aberration, he is perfect
05:36.52*** join/#wowuidev Lukian (n=lukian@203.123.90.21)
05:37.06IrielCan't be THAT perfect to mis-spell aberration
05:37.20Guest80879now you're just being abberative
05:38.49Guest80879Cairenn: bah, I've already found that word =(
05:38.54IrielSo my DSL modem is slowly expiring (again)
05:39.01Guest80879I can't guess past 10 atm
05:39.08Cairennwobwork - that's what you get for guess ahead :p
05:39.16Cairenns/guess/guessing/
05:39.24Guest80879I guess =P
05:40.12PolarinaIs there an English word for something that statefully (in combat; while dead) toggles the behavior of an user interface widget (visibility, font size, shade)?
05:40.29Guest80879secureframe?
05:40.35PolarinaNo.
05:40.49PolarinaA word! A word normal, clue-less users are going to read.
05:41.09Guest80879state toggle
05:41.28PolarinaI guess that would work.
05:42.15AbsolutRayneCan anyone recommend a replacement for SL Data Text?
05:43.05TorhalAbsolutRayne: Isn't that just another proprietary plugin-taking display like FuBar is and Titan was?
05:43.13PolarinaHow would one unregister a slash command?
05:43.22TorhalSet it to nil.
05:43.28PolarinaOh, nice. :)
05:43.31AbsolutRayneshrugs
05:43.58TorhalIf that's the case, then the replacement would be an LDB display of your choice. :D
05:44.04IrielPolarina: you need to clear it from the cache table too
05:44.12PolarinaIriel: How?
05:44.14IrielPolarina: if it's been executed
05:44.46AbsolutRayneIm not really thinking clearly atm. The tank in my pug is making me want to punch a small, furry animal
05:44.52TorhalIriel: Why is TRADE_SKILL_UPDATE so evil? :)
05:45.10PolarinaTorhal: Many things are evil.
05:45.40Irielhash_ChatTypeInfoList[command] = nil;
05:45.51PolarinaIriel: Thanks,
05:45.54Polarinas/,/./
05:46.00Guest80879AbsolutRayne: is your tank a small furry animal?
05:46.37IrielSee ChatFrame.lua for specific examples, or run a ocuple of slash commands then /dump the table
05:46.48AbsolutRayneIts a male Belf
05:46.53AbsolutRayneSo......probably>
05:46.54IrielTorhal: My guess is asynchronicity (sp)
05:46.54batbotIriel, nothing found.
05:47.24TorhalIriel: It doesn't appear to take parameters, and fires seemingly at random. Sad panda stuff.
05:47.59PolarinaGuest80879: That's not the word, sorry. I defined it wrong. It's a condition that statefully maintains a certain behavior of an user interface widget, but falls back to defaults when the condition no longer matches.
05:48.06IrielIt's basically saying "if you're showing tradeskill stuff, itmight have changed"
05:48.14Fiskeri brrrrrrrrrrrrr
05:48.24IrielPolarina: Hm, 'Context aware' ?
05:48.45PolarinaIriel: A noun, preferably.
05:49.03TorhalWell, it's rather random, and the different intervals at which it fires makes me think that it's broadcast from other players. Oddball stuff.
05:49.27Polarinathinks that SendAddonMessage should support multicasting.
05:49.54ShirikAside from the poor resolutionj, what do you think Iriel? http://darkroommaster.deviantart.com/art/I-m-Watching-You-147114483
05:50.00IrielTorhal: Ah, so it's like that annoying tabard save event?
05:50.05Shiriksadly 70mm only gets you so far...
05:50.19TorhalIriel: Not familiar with it, but if that's what it does...:D
05:51.06YssarilShirik: nice
05:51.08IrielTorhal: it fires for no apparent reason, all the time
05:51.14TorhalBasically, I was trynig to make ARL auto-refresh when the player learned a new recipe. It works just fine, but refreshing at random makes it useless since it collapses anything that may have been expanded.
05:51.16IrielShirik: It's not very happy looking
05:51.24Shirikit was 30 degrees outside!
05:51.26ShirikI wasn't happy either
05:51.42IrielTorhal: I suggest using the event to just see when to check, but do a compare of your current state with new state to see if you should actually react
05:51.58IrielI took some pictures in Utah, I should copy them from my laptop I guess
05:52.10TorhalHrm. Compare number of recipes known to previous number known. Good call.
05:52.12TorhalDanke.
05:52.14ShirikI really need to get something stronger
05:52.17Shirikeither a 300mm or 400mm
05:52.28ShirikI asked for a 1.4x teleconverter for christmas :)
05:52.51PolarinaTorhal: I was more like thinking of comparing the actual recipies, a gamemaster might change a learned recepie you got with something else.
05:53.38TorhalThat's HIGHLY doubtful. Plus, comparing two numbers is vastly simpler than iterating through two complex lists comparing each member.
05:53.47PolarinaTorhal: :P
05:54.00*** join/#wowuidev mascondante (n=kvirc@99-196-50-165.cust.wildblue.net)
05:54.02TorhalGMs don't run around changing people's recipes willy-nilly.
05:54.10PolarinaHehe. :)
05:55.10Thunder_Childckknight: whats the 1++ in parrot?
05:59.49AbsolutRayne...I THINK I already have tonights word...
06:00.24Thunder_ChildBACON
06:00.33AbsolutRaynenumnumnumnumnumnumnumnumnumnum
06:01.32PolarinaI got 18 words..
06:01.41Fiskeryou wouldn't kill me Shirik
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06:03.05AbsolutRayneI have 13
06:03.08AbsolutRayne>.<
06:04.00PolarinaI am still looking for the last two words.
06:04.12Thunder_Childam i missing something?
06:04.15AbsolutRayneMust be nice :/
06:04.38NightHawkTheSaneweeeeeeeeeeeeeee, saurfang down :D
06:04.56AbsolutRayneGz
06:05.00temhow many marks, NHTS?
06:05.14temoh, are you alliance?
06:05.14NightHawkTheSane1 :)
06:05.17NightHawkTheSaneno :)
06:05.21tem1? that must be 10 man
06:05.24NightHawkTheSaneyes
06:07.51NightHawkTheSanewe're not exactly a big or hardcore guild ;)
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06:09.42temNHTS, :P
06:10.11temI recently changed guilds to a MUCH more hardcore group
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06:10.20mikmaomagod
06:10.26mikmaesamynn|away: dk?
06:10.29mikmawhops
06:10.30Jerubtem: i'm seriously considering doing the same.
06:11.09temI'm _really_ enjoying how well we're doing
06:11.09mikmatem: dk?
06:11.09Jerubbut... my guild does stuff like have a bbq followed by a pub crawl.
06:11.09mikmaesamynn|away: sorry, nubz
06:11.09NightHawkTheSanetem: i switched to this guild because a large number of my real life friends are in it
06:11.09temmikma, what about my DK?
06:11.09NightHawkTheSaneI kind of want more progression, but I really like gaming with friends
06:11.09temnod
06:11.09mikmatem: tank? dps? specs? =)
06:11.09NightHawkTheSaneso, as it is, i'm happy enough
06:11.09temI decided that I was tired of missing progression
06:11.14Polarinais not in a guild. :)
06:11.30Jerubi couldn't imagine wow without a guild.
06:11.40Jerubwho do i bitch at when quests are going poorly?
06:11.42temI'd miss the green text too much
06:11.50PolarinaJerub: LFD and bitch there! :D
06:11.56temmikma, tank mainspec
06:11.56JerubPolarina: hah
06:12.00NightHawkTheSanetem: honestly, we do well enough to down normal modes for 'new' content, which is probably enough for me. I just want to -see- it, I dont need to down 25-man hard modes
06:12.03Polarinatem: You can change the party channel colour to green...
06:12.08mikmatem: cool! me also =)
06:12.18Jerubi want to down 10togc at least once.
06:12.35Jerubi'm heals mainspec, but my tank is probably better geared than our guild MT now...
06:12.48Jerubpugs waaaay more raids than any healers or tanks in the guild.
06:13.13NightHawkTheSaneI used to be main specced healing, but i've been dpsing lately, because i'm apparently one of the better dpsers as well as one of the better healers >.> but we have enough good healers.
06:13.21Polarinagoes redesigning her addon from scratch.
06:13.21temmy old guild had ~15ish great players
06:13.29temso we could handle togc 10
06:13.30Fisker~weather ekch
06:13.42tembut we couldn't do the 25 man hards because we were carrying too many people
06:13.53CruciformerPolarina: the addon will be twice as good after redesigning ... always works that way.
06:14.02Guest80879this ^
06:14.08PolarinaCruciformer: True.
06:14.32Jerubhaving started with kitty dps as my mainspec, everything else is easy.
06:14.35PolarinaThis complex subject has to be over-simplified for normal users to use.
06:14.53CruciformerPolarina: what does your mod do?
06:14.55JerubI was doing 4-4.5k dps in a mess of T8 gear
06:14.56temGuest80879, hi shirik?
06:15.03Shirikhi
06:15.20Shirik[whois: Guest80879]
06:15.21Shirik › name: wobin
06:15.21Shirik › address: n=Wobwork@136.136.233.220.static.exetel.com.au
06:15.22Shirikfool
06:15.25PolarinaCruciformer: Allows the users to specify procedures to be executed upon a certain signal while a certain condition is met.
06:15.47tem*shrug* you're the one who's usually a fonky guest
06:15.50Shirik:P
06:15.53Shiriknot recently
06:15.58IrielPolarina: Can you call it 'Reaction'  or 'Flinch' ? 8-)
06:16.03Cruciformerwow. I dunno who it says more about that I understood that, or that you wrote it :P
06:16.10PolarinaIriel: I was going for "Criterion", but sure. :P :D
06:16.24IrielCriterion works pretty well too
06:16.30IrielAnd it sounds cooler
06:16.30mikmatem: http://armorylite.com/eu/alonsus/oe
06:16.47PolarinaIriel: :)
06:17.05mikmatem: i have superspec as tanking right now xD
06:17.34mikmairiel: why the 4th return from GetBattlegroundInfo has been removed? whyyyyyy?
06:17.48Cruciformerthe other day someone was asking about teh dropdown menu code I was writing but I can't remember who it was. If you are here, I have it semi-documented and working now if you want to look at it.
06:18.02PolarinaIriel: The idea is that users can easily make the game automatically do something for them; announcing "Ding!" to the guild when the player levels up; doing /oom when running low on mana, carrying no mana potions, etc.
06:18.07Jerubhttp://quickarmory.com/?n=oe&r=EU-Alonsus
06:18.49PolarinaIriel: Instead of programming shitloads of addons that do that. :P
06:18.59mikmajerub: oh thats cool!
06:19.27Jerubi've been using quickarmory for a long time now. I /really/ like it.
06:19.31Jerubit's slowly improving too.
06:19.42Jerubthe graph is really really valuable.
06:20.20Jerubthis was a raidleader on dath doing pugs this week: http://quickarmory.com/?n=krimsonx&r=Dath%27Remar
06:21.04Jerubone look and if you know what lies where on the graph, you know the whole story.
06:31.15Jerubyay another selinux denial. i wonder what went wrong this time.
06:31.55Jeruboh, firefox plugin i installed is disliked. boo hoo.
06:32.41CruciformerI find myself using firefox less and less these days.
06:33.15mikmatem: check my megatank spec ;)
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06:36.39Jerubmikma: http://quickarmory.com/?n=brandi&r=Dath%27Remar
06:36.47temit looks like a pretty cookie cutter blood spec
06:37.02temwait wtf
06:37.04Jerubi like all the 245
06:37.10temit shows you with no points in t1 unholy
06:37.12temwtf is that about
06:37.44Jerubhttp://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jcERVh0IsbobssxhxZ0gh0zZ:GidmVc ?
06:37.52mikmalol wat
06:38.24Jerubtem: you're insane
06:38.41temwhyso?
06:38.54temmikma, I'd drop CE from that
06:39.00temit's a pretty lousy ability
06:39.20mikmatem: its hilarious!
06:39.24mikmai love it
06:39.33Fiskeryou wouldn't brrrrrrrrrr a Fisker Shirik
06:39.42temI guess it's fine for heroics
06:39.44PolarinaIs it possible to detect whether the current target is in combat or not?
06:40.30IrielHm.. I suspect UnitAffectingCombat("target") is as close as you get, I dont think it works for enemy units though, I could very easily be mistaken 8-)
06:40.50PolarinaAny events when that state changes?
06:40.54temhttp://quickarmory.com/?n=Doloros&r=Dragonmaw
06:40.57IrielNone whatsoever 8-)
06:41.08PolarinaIriel: I'll just spam that function on OnUpdate then.
06:41.14IrielPolarina: thay
06:41.14mikmatem: its my mountfarm + raid build atm =D
06:41.18IrielPolarina: That's what I do
06:41.21Jerubtem: holy jesus mary and joseph that's nice gear
06:41.24mikmatem: i'm exploding failers as i tank
06:41.47temJerub, :D
06:42.14IrielPolarina: Though I have a minimum interval throttle to avoid overdoing it
06:42.49Jerubtem: and some seriously classy trinkets.
06:43.07temI can't believe I got that coin
06:43.12temnone of the other tanks wanted it
06:43.13CruciformerUNIT_COMBAT is no help?
06:43.17Jerubtem: you're serious?
06:43.23temThey haven't been paying attention to ICC mechanics
06:43.25Jerubtem: man, the dodge nerf has addled people's brains.
06:43.58PolarinaCruciformer: Maybe.
06:44.00Cruciformeror UNIT_FLAGS?
06:44.09NechcknEh... people need breains to have them addled, Jerub
06:44.20Nechckn<PROTECTED>
06:45.25JerubNechckn: ;)
06:45.56temJerub, it's not so much the dodge nerf
06:46.09temit's the fact that I'd never wear that trinket in anything below ICC
06:46.22Jerubffs. I didn't notice half the gems in my gear are stupid dps gems
06:46.32temEH is WAY more important for Ulduar and ToC
06:46.37mikmairiel: why the 4th return from GetBattlegroundInfo has been removed? oh tell me whyyyyyy?
06:46.53Irielmikma: I have no idea -- it's probably Shirik's fault.
06:46.58Jerubi've got an epic strength and an epic armor pen gem in my tanking gear :/
06:47.02Shirikwtf did I do
06:47.06Polarinawrites a serializers that handles table recursion. People seem unable to make their serializers support that.
06:47.19Shirikoh yes mikma
06:47.21IrielShirik: Nothing, I just like teasing you 8-)
06:47.22CruciformerIriel: Almost everything except global warming (which is a myth) is Shirik's fault, so thats not saying much :)
06:47.24IrielShirik: http://www.cheeseplant.org/~daniel/images/ZNP1.jpg
06:47.27Shirikactually I hacked Blizzard's code servers and took it out
06:47.30JerubPolarina: it's a little hard, but not impossible. you just have to do it stack based :)
06:47.30bleeter<PROTECTED>
06:47.36mikmashirik: damn you!!!1
06:47.48ShirikIriel: I have a distinct lack of snow
06:47.57PolarinaJerub: Hard? Stack-based? I've solved just that many times with NEITHER!
06:48.02IrielShirik: so do I, this was a novelty 8-)
06:48.06Shirikha
06:48.37PolarinaJerub: Just make a table with a list of already-seen tables, and check that each time when you see a table. If it's there, reference to it and don't iterate into it.
06:48.39IrielPolarina: recursive is pretty easy, the question is whether you handle identity preservation when there's multiple copies of something in the table 8-)
06:48.45Jerub:( I need 9 epic gems.
06:48.50IrielPolarina: And do so without creating massive temp tables 8-)
06:48.50Jerub:((
06:48.58PolarinaIriel: Not massive.
06:48.59Jerubconsiders welfare gems
06:49.00IrielPolarina: the simple implementation's really effective most of the time
06:49.10IrielPolarina: as I suspect you've discovered given that comment
06:49.40ShirikIriel: Got any experience with genetic algorithms?
06:49.45Guest80879I'd like a table serialiser that dumps to a frame with buttons so I can click-trace through things
06:49.59Guest80879so I can drill down/up tables
06:50.02IrielShirik: very little beyond grokking the basic concept
06:50.11PolarinaIriel: That method, it will only serialize tables as recursive when they actually are, not table copies. And you can deserialize the recursion too. :D
06:50.14JerubIriel: i do...
06:50.15*** join/#wowuidev stolen|school (n=stolenle@193.170.222.163)
06:50.17IrielGuest80879: I started writing one of those, but it got a bit messy fast 8-)
06:50.22Guest80879gah
06:50.30Shiriktrying to develop one and it's really pushing the limits of my design abilities
06:50.57WobWorkPidgin seems to hide my current nick with my preferred nick
06:51.03WobWorkso I don't know if I've been misnicked =P
06:51.09PolarinaWobWork: It's a feature.
06:51.16IrielWobWork: but.. I was trying for a specific look and feel, I probably made things too hard on myself, i'm good at that 8-)
06:51.29Jerubyay, turns out expertise is over the 'soft' cap
06:51.39mikmatem: CE does quite nice AoE damage, 1k~ on each mob
06:51.45WobWorkIriel: The ones you do pull off make up for the ones that get too far dug into complexity =)
06:52.03WobWorkIriel: but I totally take your point. If I'm going to write a table parser.. it'll be PRETTY damnit.
06:52.33Polarinais trying to figure out how do design her code.
06:52.57hastewith kittens!
06:53.10Polarinahaste: Of course with kittens.
06:54.30WobWorkand PONIES
06:55.26Cruciformerponies are so last millenium tho.
06:55.27PolarinaAnd I suck at designing good code! (Example: http://codepad.org/fKhPJDMw)
06:55.48Polarinas/fKhPJDMw/5npvJLlm/
06:55.59temmikma, 1k is like a single bloodboil
06:56.03temthat's terrible
06:56.20Polarinatem: I know.
06:56.45temPolarina, that wasn't directed at you
06:56.54Polarinatem: Ok. :)
06:57.32hastePolarina: your just overthinking it
06:57.33Jerubhow do i calculate stamina?
06:57.38Polarinahaste: Perhaps.
06:57.54mikmatem: yes, but it also can be used to destroy failers
06:58.49IrielShirik: Also http://www.cheeseplant.org/~daniel/images/ZNP2.jpg
06:58.56Jerubhm, an epic gem is 450 health, blue gem is 360 health
06:59.06CruciformerJerub: Let X be the mount of time you are bonking your partner. Let Y be how ugly they are. STAMINA = Y * (1/X).
06:59.25PolarinaIriel: I WANT!!!
06:59.37IrielThough it's tricky to do justice to the rock color because I didn't do a grey card calibration
07:00.15PolarinaIriel: That would even be considered as a featured image at wikipedia.
07:02.53ShirikIriel, how dare you!
07:03.10IrielShirik: How dare I what, this time?
07:03.32ShirikEvery time I go out, except in rare lighting conditions where it simply wouldn't be beneficial to the picture, I always start off with a grey card shot and set my camera's WB off of it
07:04.24IrielI'm just not in the habit of it, especially when travelling
07:04.28JerubShirik: you wouldn't grey card a camera wb slot thing place light.
07:04.50Shirikdid Jerub get eaten by Fisker? o.o
07:05.05IrielI have a proper GretagMacbeth ColorChecker card at home tho
07:05.27ShirikI have a mini macbeth colorchecker
07:05.37NechcknI think Fisker misfired and ate me instead!
07:05.46IrielI keep pondering getting the digital one, but it's a bit pricey IIRC
07:05.53Shirikdigital one? o.o
07:06.10ShirikI really don't understand the colorchecker card enough though
07:06.15NechcknOr... maybe that was someone else.  I did not bother to look under the desk, Shirik.
07:06.24ShirikI know some random things like these two swatches on the right side that swap positions when WB is off
07:06.32Shirikbut there's way more swatches than I know what to check for
07:06.34Irielhttp://www.filmtools.com/maccoldc.html
07:07.05Shirikyeah that is a bit up there in price
07:07.23Shirikhey! I have that! http://www.filmtools.com/mini-color-checker-chart-12233.html
07:07.33Shirikvery convenient :)
07:07.54IrielI have the 8.5  x 11 version of that (i..e the non-mini)
07:08.27Shirikyeah I wanted to get the full version but came to the realization that I wouldn't be able to take that with me as much as I want to
07:08.31Shirikthis one fits easily in my bag
07:08.44Irielnods, this one's not that portable, so your approach is sane
07:09.08IrielOTOH it's a lot more surface area, so it was useful for what I needed it for primarily at the time
07:09.19Iriel(Trying to reverse engineer Nikon's NEF format)
07:09.30Shiriko.o
07:09.33Shirikwhat were you doing that for
07:09.45IrielBecause I was on linux, and nikon were not helpful.
07:09.50Shirikheh
07:11.54*** join/#wowuidev zenzio (n=zenzio__@ti131310a340-0018.bb.online.no)
07:13.20Shirikok pop quiz. Let us assume we create an abstract mathematical operation binary tree
07:13.27Fiskerwhy do Shiriks suddenly appear?
07:13.30FiskerEverytime you are near?
07:13.35Fiskeretc.
07:13.38Fiskerherro Shirik
07:14.04ShirikThe root node is the result (a final operation). The two nodes below that are operations, and so forth until we reach the leaves of the tree where the inputs are supplied
07:14.30ShirikThe inputs are always going to be twice the number of variables (by definition of the problem).
07:14.45ShirikTheorem: The length of the tree will always be 2^n branches deep (n is the number of variables)
07:14.48ShirikTrue or false?! go
07:16.42IrielSurely if it's a binary tree then 2^depth = n (i.e. depth = log2(n))
07:17.01IrielI suspect there's some context you've got that we dont
07:17.12Shirikok I'm obviously wrong
07:17.13Shirikhttp://wowi.pastey.net/130377
07:17.19Shirikthat is 3 deep for 2 variables
07:17.29*** join/#wowuidev Elkano (n=elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano)
07:17.43IrielWell, that'd be log2(n) + 1
07:17.49Irielsince i see what you mean about inputs and variables now
07:17.55Shiriksorry for confusion :P
07:18.10Irielor log2(n) + 2 if you include the root as a depth
07:18.37Shirikwell what's important is the number of computations
07:18.42Shirikwhich is log2(n)+1
07:18.47Shiriker
07:18.51Shirikwell how deep the computations go
07:18.54Shirikrecursion level
07:19.12IrielSome more snow for you, before I go to bed: http://www.cheeseplant.org/~daniel/images/ZNP3.jpg
07:19.19Shirikgah
07:19.21Shirikstop taunting me!
07:19.35IrielI'm not near the snow anymore, so I'm not really taunting you
07:19.39Elkanodo I sense algorithmic runtime discussions?
07:19.47ShirikElkano: Genetic algorithms!
07:20.03ShirikIriel: Actually the problem as I have shown it to you is wrong anyway
07:20.10ShirikThere needs to be more constants, sigh
07:20.25IrielShirik: is it really a tree or more of a matrix?
07:20.36IrielShirik: I obviously dont understand your specific problem
07:20.38Shirikdefinitely a tree
07:21.04IrielHm, lightroom has an update, guess I need that before I go to bed
07:21.05ShirikWell the objective is to come up with a self-modifiable algorithm that can encompass many different ways of computing a result
07:21.30ShirikSo if I create a tree and randomize the position of inputs and what the operations actually are, then I should be able to cover a wide number of algorithms
07:21.42IrielI guess so
07:24.47zenzio"According to an article on the BBC website, BBC HD lowered the bitrate of their broadcasts by almost 50% and are surprised that users noticed."
07:29.26*** join/#wowuidev mojosdojo (n=gdbzet26@p4FEFDF79.dip.t-dialin.net)
07:29.32Shirikhere we are Iriel
07:29.40CruciformerI've almost completely given uyp lightroom for capture one
07:29.46Shirikhttp://wowi.pastey.net/130379
07:29.53ShirikThat's a more accurate representation of what the algorithm should be
07:30.12Shirikwhere + is "any operation", letters are inputs, and numbers are constants
07:30.14Fiskeryou spoiled my grand entrance Shirik
07:30.22Fiskerownt zenzio
07:30.31IrielShirik: That looks wrong
07:30.43Shirikwhy do you say that?
07:31.03zenzioShirik: + can't be  "any operation" in this channel, you know how most people here don't like languages that let you overload operators
07:31.17IrielI would expect 4 & 5 to be inputs to the +'s "below" where they meet the tree, but I guess that breaks its binaryness
07:31.31Shirikwell how would you model, say
07:31.55IrielI'd almost imagine each node having 2 inputs (from below) and 2 "parameters" -- operation and "factor"
07:32.06Shirik.2 * ((a - 1) / (b - 1))
07:32.18ShirikI guess that's a poor example
07:32.21Shirikhow about
07:32.24IrielThough I guess you can model that by having just "operation" and then handle factor like you do 4 & 5
07:32.29Shirik.2 * ((a - 1) ^ (b - 1))
07:32.44IrielIf you're also supporting permutations of ABCD then it's not so bad
07:32.48*** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@124-171-25-254.dyn.iinet.net.au)
07:32.53Irielthough you can't have a relation on A B and C, but not D, so easily
07:33.01ShirikActually I can
07:33.14Shirik"any operation" I didn't define very clearly for you
07:33.21IrielHow can you do (A+B+C)^2 + D
07:33.26Fiskeri wanna be a jerk
07:33.31Shirikit is the obvious +, -, /, * and ^
07:33.38Shirikbut also "left" "right" "zero" and "one"
07:33.49Shirikwhich end up discarding one or both leaves
07:34.24IrielOr for that matter (A*B*C) + D
07:34.26Irielto make it simpler
07:34.34Shirikvalid concern
07:34.51IrielEither there's some constraints on your problem space which you're aware of, and i'm not
07:34.56Irielor this plan doesn't really work as-is
07:35.03ShirikMaybe I should go back to my original idea of using a reverse-polish notation style
07:35.12Irielneeds to be more of a mesh perhaps?
07:35.20Shirikand making operations and inputs being the same "thing"
07:35.26Shirikthen it would end up being something like
07:35.39Shirik1A+2B++3C+4D+++
07:35.51airtonixhttp://dl.dropbox.com/u/180039/screenshots/2009-12-18-180457_1920x1080_scrot.png
07:35.52airtonixsweet
07:36.21ShirikBut randomly creating a stack-balanced algorithm seems quite difficult
07:36.36zenzioairtonix: sweet indeed
07:36.50IrielCould you perhaps have the first 'tier' be n! nodes, one for each distinct combination of inputs
07:37.02Irielthen just add the results for the final node?
07:37.02airtonixzenzio, nexted layers too
07:37.06airtonixnested*
07:37.30ShirikI could
07:37.30zenziowe know you like layers, so we put layers in your layers so you can edit while you edit?
07:37.39airtonix:)
07:37.56airtonixeasy part was that its just from the ppa svn repository
07:39.20Irielsleep time, night
07:39.32Shiriknigh
07:41.29Cruciformerquestion. If I create a frame and then :HookScript(), and there was no existing script handler for it, then my handler becomes the handler for the cript. If after that someone does a :SetScript(), does that overwrite my hook or will their script still be run, then mine?
07:41.33*** join/#wowuidev cogwheel_ (n=cogwheel@99-33-83-160.lightspeed.plalca.sbcglobal.net)
07:43.03Wobinhttp://gizmodo.com/5426827/younicorn-iphone-app-requires-no-explanation
07:44.37zenzioclearly an essential app
07:47.58Dagmar<PROTECTED>
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07:48.41kd3the hell?
07:49.25PolarinaCruciformer: If you do a HookScript, it's permanent.
07:50.00Dagmarkd3: I feel sorry and I had nothing to do with it
07:50.02Cruciformerthans pol. do they stac? so If I hookscript and then someone else does, do they chain or does the second replace mine?
07:50.11PolarinaCruciformer: They stack.
07:50.19Cruciformerbetter and better. tyvm.
07:50.27PolarinaCruciformer: You're welcome.
07:50.38Torhal!api HookScript
07:50.38lua_botScriptObject:HookScript: Securely hooks a script handler (http://wowprogramming.com/docs/widgets/ScriptObject/HookScript)
07:50.56Cruciformertorhal: thats what I am reading it doesnt cover those cases.
07:51.00Wobincogwheel: <3 Tim Minchin
07:51.45CruciformerIm about to log in and add the info.
07:52.08TorhalCruciformer: It does if you read carefully. Paraphrasing: "allows one to "post-hook" a secure handler without tainting the original." and then "any hooks applied will remain in place until the UI is reloaded."
07:52.32Polarinaonce discovered how to make addons toggle the player's standing/sitting status.
07:52.39PolarinaI wonder if that's still possible.
07:53.00Cruciformertorhal: I guess :) Its a little obtuse, could use a wee bit of clarification.
07:53.27TorhalPolarina: SitStandOrDescendStart()
07:53.31Cruciformeror ... I could use more coffee to kickstart teh brain more completely.
07:53.32PolarinaTorhal: That one!
07:53.49PolarinaTorhal: Addons can actually use that function, and it works.
07:54.49TorhalPolarina: It's a protected function.
07:55.43PolarinaTorhal: I know, and the client complains when addons uses it, but did actually execute it's intended mechanism (as if the code was secure).
07:55.50PolarinaI don't know if it still does.
07:56.23TorhalYou could test it on Fisker, when he's swimming.
07:57.00CruciformerTorhal: I'd rather test PlaceFootOnHeadUntilBubblesStop() on Fisker when he's swimming :P
07:57.22Wobinhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCNvZqpa-7Q
07:57.26Wobin*sniff*
07:57.32TorhalHah
07:57.54Wobinwell Fisker is a pally
07:58.00Wobinso the bubble will have a cooldown
07:59.17Cruciformer:w
08:00.37PolarinaBlizzard should release an official GNU/Linux client. :(
08:01.06CruciformerAll that effort to cater for 0.0002% of the wow population?
08:01.07DagmarMeh we should probably throw together packages that "build" installable packages for it under WINE
08:01.16PolarinaCruciformer: Yes!
08:01.20DagmarI'm aiming to do that one I finally get this f**king GNOME stuff sorted again
08:01.30PolarinaDagmar: Make a .deb package. :)
08:01.53DagmarPolarina: Writing a big shell script comes first.  Packaging it is easy by comparison
08:02.04Dagmar...although I don't think you'd want to directly package WoW
08:02.13TorhalLAWSUIT!
08:02.29*** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net)
08:02.34Wobinhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSfSV5BSZ2g&feature=channel
08:02.37Wobin<3 Tim Minchin
08:02.39PolarinaDagmar: Just ask Blizzard. :)
08:02.39DagmarJust waiting for the thing to finish making a freaking 12Gb .deb file would try most people's patience, and I don't know for sure that most package managers won't just show the special middle finger for trying
08:03.38DagmarI can see some package manager coder looking at 4Gb limitations and saying "No.  Screw that.  They shoudln't be that big this decade."
08:04.24PolarinaDagmar: lol
08:04.32Wobinalso: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmFO2I0c-ks&NR=1
08:06.06Polarinahttp://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/ReloadUI  <-- That function does not need user interference!
08:07.20TorhalOh? I've never seen it spontaneously used before.
08:08.20DagmarSeems like that would maybe make a user kinda grumpy
08:08.56TorhalI've seen an AddOn instantly reload the UI after changing a config option, but that was still a mouse-click.
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08:10.47Polarinawonders if she should level 70-80 via instances or questing.
08:10.58DagmarQuests!
08:10.58TorhalBoth!
08:11.05DagmarWell yes.
08:11.26Dagmar...since quests will send you into instances at the proper time, and with the proper backstory.
08:11.27PolarinaAre they any good?
08:11.31DagmarYep.
08:11.36DagmarUnless you have something against poo.
08:11.41*** join/#wowuidev svenadh (n=sven@L0.moenchengladbach01.fdknet.de)
08:11.41PolarinaBetter than TBC?
08:11.45DagmarYes.
08:11.46mikmaquestances!
08:11.54PolarinaNice.
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08:12.24DagmarTekkub's Tour Guide is pretty awesome, and some of the guides are great, but you barely even need to care about optimizing your runs in WoTLK
08:12.51PolarinaHehe. :P
08:12.54mikmastop kissing his ass
08:12.57DagmarThere's not _quite_ a predictable pattern at the quest hubs, but enough of one you'll very quickly be able to tell from the way things are going if you're about to be sent off to somewhere else or not
08:13.02PolarinaInstancing is faster than questing for leveling anyway.
08:13.09DagmarI'm not kissing his ass.  It's good code
08:13.28mikmait sucks! tekkub is a noob
08:13.42mikmai hate his hairy face
08:13.48PolarinaBorean Thunda or Howling Fjord?
08:13.52Torhalmikma: Foof.
08:13.55Polarinas/h//
08:13.57DagmarPolarina: Really, it's not
08:14.02TorhalPolarina: Both! (Well, that's what I did...)
08:14.07PolarinaTorhal: How?
08:14.21TorhalI knocked out Borean then did Howling Fjord.
08:14.21DagmarThere'll be one or two zones you won't even need to touch before you hit 80
08:14.30PolarinaDagmar: Believe me, it is. And almost none of the Azeroth quests give any monetary rewards anymore.
08:14.31Wobinhttp://www.tabloidprodigy.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/ham_chanukah.jpg
08:14.33DagmarIt's cake with lots of icing
08:14.49airtonixPolarina, documented evidence disagrees with you
08:14.59TorhalWobin: Haha
08:15.00Polarinaairtonix: They changed the quests with 3.3.
08:15.09DagmarPolarina: You would be aghast if you knew how quickly I hit 80 on the DK once I knew how things worked
08:15.23PolarinaDagmar: How do they work?
08:15.32DagmarNo amount of instance grinding would have beat completing quests with both hands and a sackful of extra fingers
08:16.02PolarinaI level two levels per day by instances, and I hardly even try.
08:16.38DagmarPolarina: hit quest hub, pick up everything, look at yer map, hit the nearest target, then the next nearest target, until you've cleaned them out.  IF your path takes you back by the hub, turn in what you've got, pick up any followups, keep going until they send you somewhere else.  Rinse, repeat
08:17.01DagmarPolarina: I was doing levels questing in about 4 hours or less
08:17.25zenzio"I cmprsd ths pst wth jpg nd thn dcmprsd t, lssy ncdng s jst s gd s lsslss ncdng." lol
08:17.41Polarinazenzio: Lies!
08:17.41Cruciformerclearly you are both wrong. the quickest way to level is to employ disadvantaged chinese laborers.
08:17.46mikmatorhal: foof-daddy!
08:17.52DagmarOn the DK I wound up just going to Icecrown for the tournament at 77.  At about halfway through 78 I actually started unlocking Icecrown and got to 80
08:18.09Dagmar...but seriously, these quests are nice
08:18.29DagmarNo chuckling dwarves yelling "SIXTY!  The number is SIXTY!" going on
08:18.33PolarinaI'll quest in Ouland and Northrend, but Azeroth is old.
08:18.36Polarina:D
08:18.55airtonixat least you're not doing "quests" in aion.
08:19.08Polarinaairtonix: lol
08:19.08airtonixthe term quest there is really a joke
08:19.12DagmarI was too busy trying to get the image of that BACK HAIR out of my mind
08:19.34airtonixDagmar, quests are exaclty the same on both factions
08:19.40airtonixi mean jobs
08:19.45airtonixi mean orders
08:19.50DagmarYes, but one faction doesn't have a mullet that goes down to their butt.
08:19.51airtonixbloody peseants
08:20.41airtonixYou get to heiron and most players have given up and resorted to using bots to finish the game for them
08:21.05airtonixbecause once you get past levl 10 you've efectively seen the variety of quests the game has to offer
08:21.11airtonixunlike wow
08:21.29airtonixyou'll be at level 80 and the game throws a new type of quest at you
08:21.56airtonixis it everquest that has player created quests ?
08:21.59DagmarYeah my brother goes on bot hunting raids
08:22.14airtonixor is that ryzom
08:22.15DagmarCity of Heroes I think is what you're referring to
08:22.26DagmarRyzom has player-created despair
08:22.27airtonixCity of NCsoft ?
08:22.57DagmarI fully expected Architect Edition to turn it into City of Penises
08:23.04DagmarThey clamped down on that pretty fast.
08:23.12TorhalEverQuest cracked me up the whole time I played it. "Where are the quests?"
08:23.22DagmarThey have a new expansion coming out.
08:23.29TorhalOf course they do.
08:23.32DagmarI don't even know what to make of that.
08:23.44TorhalI gave up after LoY.
08:23.49zenzioTorhal: I've always been puzzled about "Final" Fantasy going to 13+ games
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08:23.51DagmarI have considered seeing if they could resurrect my wizard, just so I could go look around
08:24.00Polarinagoes into a dungeon.
08:24.06zenziokinky
08:24.32TorhalDagmar: I took advantage of their free summer year before last...Oasis of Mar is gone, Freeport is a completely different city...and the whole fuckin' lot is empty.
08:24.55DagmarYeah I went back for a bit when they made frogloks playable
08:25.05TorhalI quit shortly after that
08:25.27DagmarThe sting from the way they screwed me over "back in the day" was still pretty potent
08:25.38DagmarI didn't bother to renew after that month
08:25.59Dagmar...and I was _phenomenally_ uninterested in soloing until I started seeing people.
08:26.40TorhalHell, I can't believe there are EQ private servers. I mean, WTF? There's free shit out now that's better.
08:27.06PolarinaPlaneshift?
08:27.32Dagmarheheh
08:28.02DagmarI would rather my eyes not bleed so much
08:29.11PolarinaLevel 39 to Maraudon! :D
08:30.02Wobinhttp://pics.blameitonthevoices.com/122009/sleepin.jpg
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08:33.30Cruciformerwhats the word for when the order of an operation are irrelevant to the result (like 2+3 == 3+2)? Is that commutatitve?
08:33.46kd3ya
08:34.08Cruciformerty. and boolean and is commutative right? (my braind isnt working 100% today).
08:34.57Cruciformeractually all boolean operations are commutative arent they?
08:35.25kd3you mean like how (someCond && someCond2) is the same as (someCond2 && someCond)?
08:35.34Cruciformeryessir
08:36.16kd3I don't remember... does lua do short-circuted comparisons?
08:36.19kd3checks
08:36.24Wobinhehe
08:36.27WobinI like this: http://www.videosift.com/video/How-gullible-is-the-australian-media
08:36.39CruciformerImpretty sure Lua does boolean short-circuiting
08:36.52Wobinit does
08:38.04CruciformerI wish I had my HP 16C calculator still :(
08:38.22Cruciformera "lent" it to a friend and thats the last Ive ever seen of it.
08:38.48Wobinsend the hired goons
08:38.52CruciformerI had a full collection of HP calculators ... teh 10c, 11c, 12c, 15c and 16c.
08:39.43Cruciformermind u I am sure all of the s functions of those are replaced by my 49g+ but that thing is daunting.
08:40.35Wobinahah
08:40.37DagmarJuuust buy a laptop already
08:40.49WobinRandom Dungeon can give you Stockades and RFC if you're of the right level
08:41.03DagmarBoth?
08:41.21Cruciformeragmar: I did ... I bought eh Asus G70. Except thats less of a laptop and more of a thin, flat tower. thing is HEAVY.
08:42.00DagmarI'd buy a netbook but if I do I'll probably wind up installing either it or my Vaio in a topcase and mounting it on the scooter.
08:42.12DagmarI _don't_ need a hobbyist excuse to go wardriving
08:42.24DagmarI don't, I don't, I don't.  I'll do nothing but get into trouble with it.
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08:42.56Wobinhehe well done: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2r9Om1PRhc
08:43.33kd3<3s his little netbook
08:44.14DagmarI bought one of those dromedary batteries from some Chinese company for my Vaio.
08:44.18DagmarI have longer battery life.
08:44.42Wobinit... has one hump?
08:44.50kd3^
08:44.59DagmarI do, however, make sure it sits on the fireproof _glasS_ table while it charges unattended.  Just in case.
08:45.16DagmarWobin: The less polite term I use is "badonkadonk" battery
08:45.23Wobinbets kd3 also went to wikipedia just to check if it was one or two humps
08:45.28Dagmar...because it sticks out the back of the thing in a serious way.
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08:45.44kd3indeed
08:45.45DagmarBut by god it'll get me almost six hours
08:46.03CruciformerIm lucky to get 3 hours out of the G70.
08:46.04DagmarWireless on and everything
08:46.37DagmarI got spoiled with my old Latitude and it's dual bays, both with batteries in them.
08:46.53kd3I'm still sad that we're 2 weeks away from 2010 and we're not using something cooler like supercaps already
08:47.06DagmarI blame BP.
08:47.09CruciformerI just bought a dual-band wireless router and usb dongle, so hopefully I will get two 300mbps channels.
08:47.14VonhintenHOME`ok, just saw Avatar in IMAX 3D..
08:47.29VonhintenHOME`what a movie
08:47.34DagmarHave your eyes stopped quivering with glee yet?
08:47.53VonhintenHOME`That was the best movie theatre experience I've ever had
08:48.08kd3needs to find the nearest imax theater showing it
08:48.33DagmarI am SO GLAD they finally decided to go with a proper binocular setup
08:48.51DagmarThat yellow/blue stuff makes me grind my teeth
08:48.55Wobin=\
08:48.59WobinI don't have binocular vision
08:49.06Wobinwill I end up with a horrific migraine?
08:49.10DagmarWell, then I guess you can save a few bucks.
08:50.02DagmarThe christmas movie was awesome
08:50.11DagmarCarey's got a real feather for his cap with that
08:50.40CruciformerI used to absolutely hate james carey till I saw "the number 23".
08:50.58zenzioWobin: you could watch it in 2D
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09:03.22Cruciformer:'a,.w!foo
09:05.27Wobinhehe
09:05.38WobinI found my wireless headset loses connection when I walk into the bathroom
09:05.43WobinThis, in hindsight, is probably a good thing
09:05.58Cruciformera most excelent thing :)
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09:14.54ZorbaTHutI like how it lists the shutdown time of Oceanic realms in PST
09:15.04ZorbaTHutlike, yes, that is certainly the most useful time zone to use
09:16.58DagmarThey're used to doing the time conversion by now
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09:28.43PolarinaZorbaTHut: No, not the most useful! UTC is!
09:30.22zenziohttp://failblog.org/2009/12/17/answer-fail-3/
09:34.28Cruciformerdont you absolutely love it when code you have spent hours writing simply just work exactly as expected, error free, first time?
09:35.00KalrothNo, because that means there's a less obvious bug hiding in the code
09:35.00zenziothere's a word for that
09:35.21Cruciformerzenzio: Its called "satisfaction" :)
09:35.32CruciformerKalroth: pesimist :P
09:35.34airtonixA jar is a glass with a handle. Or when a door isn’t.
09:35.38zenzioI was thinking "orgasmic"
09:35.38KalrothEither the design turns out to be flawed or the customer wanted something else, trust me - your flawless code will be in vain!
09:36.09Cruciformeroptimist (n): a pesimist without all of the facts.
09:36.33airtonixreturn brief from client : "WTF IT DOESN:T SHOW A PICTURE OF MY BABY!!! I THOUGHT YOU WERE PSYCHIC!!!!"
09:37.18zenzioCruciformer: Devil's Dictionary?
09:37.38Cruciformerzenzio: Actually no, my brain. Dont know where I heard it though.
09:37.45CruciformerI do love the devil's dictionary tho.
09:38.40zenzioah, wasn't DD... though I do like DD's version
09:38.48zenziohttp://www.alcyone.com/max/lit/devils/o.html
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09:43.55_ranehey, I'm trying to find an addon that shows buff/debuff timers for all players you have buffs on. i.e. not just target/focus
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10:31.32Adys"A 16-digit alphanumeric code"
10:32.29Wobinhm
10:32.31Wobinthat was fun
10:32.40WobinArcane is enjoyable
10:33.15Wobinpity it's not end game viable
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10:41.55PolarinaMaraudon at level 39 isn't as easy as I thought. :(
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10:43.35PolarinaYay! AddOns can execute SitStandOrDescendStart()! :D
10:44.25AdysWhat about FrostboltFireballOrEvenFireblast() ?
10:47.41KalrothJiggyWiggyDanceDance()
10:48.13AdysCheekyWickyPantsPants("Kalroth")
10:49.26olafskiI feel kinda bad.. blizzard reimbursed my "haxed" items and now I have a ton of stuff I didn't have before
10:49.54Kalrothdelete it then :p
10:50.03olafskithat would feel bad as well :P
10:50.10olafskimaybe I'll just pop em in the guild bank
10:51.12Polarinaolafski: Erm.. Please explain.
10:51.21Adysolafski: I had like 4-5 alts with my own guildbank access
10:51.31Adyswhere I was storing a bunch of expensive shit
10:51.32olafskipolarina: the hacker spent all my badges and stuff on gems
10:51.43olafskibbl
10:52.00olafskiI'll explain later :P
10:52.00Polarinaolafski: Don't feel bad. :)
10:52.04Polarinaolafski: It's a gift. :D
10:52.08Adyswhen my acc got compromised, blizz reimbursed the guildbank stuff to every GM in my guildbank
10:52.57Adyswhich meant I got basically 5 times my guildbank content back
10:53.06KalrothAdys: haha, we tried that too - our gbank got cleared, two officers paged a GM and got the items back twice
10:53.06PolarinaAdys: Nice. :D
10:53.40Adyswell I certainly didnt need multiple tickets =P
10:53.59Adysits funny
10:54.13Adysbecause on adys I got back two items, all i had access to
10:54.16Adyswas like some random green gem
10:54.27Adysand on the other chars, a bunch of crap
10:55.39PolarinaI miss speaking to a gamemaster, I'll go ask them a wicked question.
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11:22.45airtonixhttp://kuler.adobe.com/#create/fromacolor
11:26.04airtonixpity i can't snaffle the swf like i could with : http://dl.dropbox.com/u/180039/tools/synthAxis.swf
11:26.33Wobinairtonix, nice... allows for some good colour schemes
11:26.53airtonixyeah i'd like it if the synthAxis i have also does the colour schemes
11:27.15airtonixcurrently it's really only for colour mixing
11:31.48olafskiadys: yeah, my case is something like that :)
11:32.16olafskistrange, the GM knowledge base clearly says that only the guild master should ask for the guildbank items back
11:32.24AdysI didnt ask
11:32.29AdysI just got them in the mail
11:37.27olafskinice :P
11:41.41olafskioh wow I hadn't checked all chars yet.. seems the same happened here
11:41.48olafskiI got all my flasks back on at least 3 chars so far
11:42.00olafskiand my enchanting mats too
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12:31.44mikmahttp://kuvaton.com/kuvei/taking_nice_pic_together.jpg (nsfw?)
12:32.27Kalrothhaha
12:33.04mikmahttp://kuvaton.com/kuvei/shit_happens.jpg that's so... HASTE AWESOME!
12:33.23mikmacairenn|afk: http://kuvaton.com/kuvei/cat66.jpg
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12:37.34hastehaha
12:38.16foxlitgrr!
12:38.32Kalrothangry fox
12:40.07foxlitJust slightly frustrated.
12:40.44foxlitI need a way to identify an element in a potentially changing set; unfortunately, I don't keep track of any data that would make that easy.
12:41.47Kalrothelement index?
12:42.35foxlitKalroth: those aren't stable, unfortunately
12:44.01foxlitI might have {"foo", "baz"} with "baz" selected; but then it might become {"foo", "bar", "baz"}; so indices are a bit unreliable. The values are tables rather than strings (and there's no guarantee that a table won't be switched for an equivalent table), so I can't simply store the selected entry.
12:45.56Kalrothcan you control the input dataset in any way?
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12:46.19foxlitOn some level, yes.
12:46.36foxlitI can rely on it to follow whatever protocol I end up implementing, or face a garbage in, garbage out situation.
12:46.46Kalrothif so, then just add a "tracking" variable infront of your selected value
12:47.01foxlitBasically, it's my code. I'm just not sure I want to add GUIDs to entries.
12:47.14Kalrothonce you encounter "!-->", you know that "baz" is next
12:47.18Kalroth(hack, yes!)
12:47.58Kalroththats garbage in/out though :)
12:48.18foxlitMy problem is more akin to knowing that in {"bar", "baz"}, "baz" is selected, and having to determine what's selected in {"foo", "bar", "foo", "baz", "jar"}
12:48.39foxlitWithout relying on equality operator.
12:48.50KalrothWell that's easy, you can't
12:49.16foxlitIn the sense that "baz" and "baz" may be equivalent but not equal.
12:49.31Kalrothprefix your selected variable with a key, like char(1) or something!
12:49.37Kalrothis full of good hacks
12:51.03foxlitbasically, attach an identifier to every entry and store that.
12:51.11foxlitIt is a hack, and it smells. :(
12:51.40foxlitBut I don't see a way to avoid it, hence the grr.
12:53.09Mikkfoxlit: well describe better what you're doing
12:53.13Mikkit's fuzzy enough that it's hard to help
12:53.27Mikkit might help to take a step back and look at the whole problem
12:53.48cbreakwhy can you not rely on equality?
12:54.02cbreakyou can put your keys into tables, which are unique
12:54.05cbreakthen you can rely on it
12:54.18cbreakand have a second table containing just the selected subset
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12:54.31cbreakor use the table to store a flag "selected"
12:54.48cbreakasuming you want to support multiple selection
12:55.12foxlitMikk: It's probably easier to add more specifics; this is fuzzy just because I'm avoiding details.
12:55.33Mikkyeah well stop avoiding ;)
12:55.49foxlitcbreak: basically, attaching an identifier to each element works. I don't like it very much, but it works.
12:55.57foxlitI have a table of tables that describe actions.
12:56.18foxlitOne of those actions may be considered "selected".
12:57.15foxlitI then get another table of tables that describe actions to update my copy with. Actions may not be the same, but if the previously selected action exists in the new table of tables, it should keep its selection status.
12:57.55cbreakYou could make a creator. > Action("run") would return { "run" }, which is unique by definition :) You don't need to manually attack identifiers that way.
12:58.03foxlitUnfortunately, the new table is new, so it does not contain selection data, so I have to implement a way to compare two action-describing tables to determine whether they're equivalent.
12:58.06MikkCould you get a bit more specific on keying in the outer table? And what those little tables contain?
12:58.29foxlitOuter table is just an array as far as inner ones are concerned.
12:58.44Mikkinteger index? hash?
12:58.55foxlit1..n
12:58.57cbreakactions are probably ordered
12:59.28foxlitLittle tables are something like {"spell", "Moonfire", "target", caption="Stuff", icon="INV_..."}
13:00.29foxlitcbreak: problem is, Action("run") != Action("run")
13:00.45Mikkyeah what you probably need to do then is indeed a comparator
13:00.46cbreakyes, they are all unique. Is that not what you want?
13:00.51Mikkfind out what the currently selected on is
13:00.57Mikkloop over the new ones, do a thorough comparison
13:01.04cbreakthat only those that were created as copy are equal
13:01.50Mikkor are you doing this often enough that it seems like a CPU problem?
13:02.09foxlitNah, I'm probably safe on the computational complexity front.
13:02.56Mikkso.. for i=1,#newactions do if selected[1]==newactions[i][1] and selected[2]==newactions[i][2] .... then selected=newactions[i] break end end
13:03.08foxlitYeah, comparators actually seem easiest.
13:03.21Mikker prolly want to set like.. "newselected" which starts out as nil
13:03.31Mikkor whatever you need
13:03.31Mikkindex
13:03.33Mikka boolean
13:03.35Mikkshrugs
13:08.10industrialREEEEEEH
13:08.15industrialrages
13:08.42industrialmy macbook keyboard input is too slow for my game (stepmania (open source Dance Dance Revolution)).
13:09.37industrialSometimes when I miss arrows it just slows down and then wrongly times all the other keys I pressed after that (around 10) all wrong which makes me lose the game instantly
13:09.43cbreakmac books are robust, but you're not supposed to step on them anyway
13:09.45industrialhaste: ^
13:10.02industrialcbreak: ;) I use the keyboard keys with my hand
13:10.06hasteindustrial: get a das keyboard!
13:10.20hasteindustrial: steino ordered one the day after he tried mine :P
13:10.25industrialheh
13:10.40hastethey even have a silent edition now
13:10.53industrialhaste: its a laptop, I'm not going to walk around carrying a das keyboard
13:11.09hastethen don't play stepmania on it!
13:11.19hasteplay Osu! instead or whatever
13:11.25hasteoh wait, it's a mac :-------D
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13:11.52industrialbut.. but.. boredom (and that Kamelot song really needs my SS score next to it on expert level 800Bpm)
13:12.01industrial>:D
13:12.23industrialWhat's Osu
13:12.28hasteindustrial: http://osu.ppy.sh/ -- dunno if it runs on mac :---D
13:12.31hasteit's .NET after all
13:13.19foxlit.not a .mac
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13:13.29foxlits/ a/ on a/
13:13.52foxlitthough one wonders if mono builds.
13:14.21hasteindustrial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgqRdtnxwog go play this on stepmania btw
13:14.40hasteindustrial: (horrible compressing on that one btw)
13:14.47hastecompression*
13:16.10hasteindustrial: or give the end of contain a shot :D
13:16.55Balreignthis is not noise... only noise
13:17.22hasteno, that's breakcore
13:17.31hastehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb8zM97qHtM&fmt=35 this is more noisy tho'
13:17.42frontendloaderis there a function to check what a key is bound to?
13:18.18frontendloaderi.e. getKeyBind("f") might return BartenderBar4Button3
13:18.26industrialhaste: that white & blue picture is a brain amirite?
13:18.38hasteindustrial: no idea :D
13:18.54hasteit just looks like a network of lines
13:19.20foxlitfrontendloader: yes.
13:19.47industrialhaste: fmt=35, do explain
13:19.50industrial:p
13:19.58industrialwhat does the value represent
13:20.14frontendloaderfoxlit: such a tease
13:20.15hasteindustrial: HQ FLV
13:20.31industrialbut why 35, isnt that what 18 does?
13:20.41hasteno, 18 is pretty much default now
13:20.48hasteor rather
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13:20.54haste18 is medium quality mp4
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13:21.07industrialhmm, okay
13:21.16industrialthey should just make it fmt=max :p
13:21.22hasteyou might actually like broken fabiola btw
13:21.33foxlit35 is... 1080p?
13:21.40hasteno, that's 37
13:21.45industrialor just.. save the fucking HQ setting for once in youtube (along with the anntations that keep resetting to ON when i turn them OFF)
13:21.47foxlitmadness.
13:21.49industrialhaste: yes, I do
13:22.11hasteindustrial: his entire album is a emotional fight between ambient and noise
13:22.15industrialits pretty anoying :P it keeps resetting my HQ and annotation settings
13:22.26hasteindustrial: completely crushes his industria/power noise alias :p
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13:24.15frontendloaderah getbindingbykey
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14:12.49olafskiare there no gem bags with more than 24 slots? :s
14:14.16LopeppeppyMorning, Lunessa.
14:14.37Lunessasadly, it is indeed morning.
14:14.39Lopeppeppyolafski, check on wowhead or one of the database sites if you're not sure, but doesn't sound right for some reason.
14:15.58Grumolafski: miner bags can hold quite some gems
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14:19.02Wobinhm
14:19.11Wobinhave we any examples of the use of AnimationGroup and the like?
14:19.53A-KOwow
14:19.56A-KOoomkins really are oomkin
14:19.59A-KOat level 33
14:20.00A-KOlol
14:21.09LopeppeppyMana is a big issue for most casters in the mid-range of leveling, 30-50, as I recall.
14:21.19A-KOI'm sure they'll fix that come cataclysm
14:21.57LopeppeppyThe stats, they are a-changing, that's true
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14:23.39zenziothe first time I tried a hunter I gave up at 15 because I couldn't work out the mana issue and stuff
14:24.04Krapshttp://xkcd.com/677/
14:24.21theorbtwoThe thing to remember about hunters is that you can still fucking attack when you are out of mana.
14:24.34theorbtwo(Also, aspect of the viper!)
14:24.42theorbtwo(Damn, is it viper?  It's been a bit.)
14:24.52theorbtwoJust don't run out of ammo.  FreeRefils++
14:24.55zenziotheorbtwo: you don't have that aspect at 15; and why are you cursing about me saying I had a noob issue?
14:25.36theorbtwozenzio: Sorry.  Wasn't swearing at you, was swearing at classes that can't attack when they are out of mana.
14:25.44Wobintheorbtwo, what class?
14:25.47zenzioah, I see
14:26.04Wobinthere aren't any classes that can't attack with no mana
14:26.34A-KOif you count beating something with a staff attacking
14:26.39theorbtwoWobin: Er, um... *runs*  Certianly one gets that impression about mages, but I haven't actually played one all that much to know for myself.
14:26.40Wobinwand damnit =P
14:26.53A-KOdruids don't have wands
14:26.59Wobinkittyform
14:27.04Wobinand claw =P
14:27.08foxlitfcOut, fcUsed = fcOut .. (((i == 1 and "" or ", ") and props[i].fastClick and i) or "nil"); print(i, fcOut);
14:27.13theorbtwoCan you switch forms when out of mana?
14:27.18A-KOnope
14:27.22foxlitHow does that manage to output 14 nilnilnilnilnilnil...
14:27.24Wobininnervate =P
14:27.28A-KOno innervate til 40
14:27.29A-KO:P
14:27.36Wobinplan ahead =P
14:27.41Wobinand leave enough to shift =P
14:27.59foxlitoh. crap.
14:28.05Wobinit's the whole point of being a hybrid
14:28.17theorbtwoConversations like this make me want to write a WoW AI.
14:28.30theorbtwoIt seems like it'd be much more interesting then actually playing the game.
14:28.39foxlitHey, do it already
14:28.40Wobintheorbtwo, "Does it have two legs?"?
14:28.44theorbtwo(Which I haven't done in several weeks -- I'm thinking about cutting my subscription.)
14:28.50foxlitYou only really have two minutes worth of global cooldowns to plan aroun.
14:28.53foxlitd
14:30.00theorbtwofoxlit: Not really attracted by the ilicitness of it.  Can't talk about it, can't build on a framework with other people, because nobody wants to face the Great Banhammer.
14:30.12theorbtwoWobin: Eh?
14:30.21Wobinno idea
14:30.57foxlittheorbtwo: it doesn't actually have to play the game for you. Resign it to merely telling you how to play the game, and none of those issues apply
14:31.04foxlitSee: which ability should I use next? addons.
14:31.34industrialI was thinking about making one of those addons but then it would just put a texture around/behind te 'correcr' actionbutton
14:31.46industrials/r'/t'/
14:31.59foxlitThe interesting part is making one that doesn't follow a specific rotation.
14:32.05theorbtwofoxlit: Yeah.  The cleanest way to make an AI is probably to write it as one of those, bind it to the ` key, and make a little device that just physically spams the ` key.
14:32.28industrialHowever I bumped into cooldown API issues
14:32.48industrialmore specifically being able to check wether we are in a global cooldown or not
14:32.50foxlittheorbtwo: won't work (decently) -- you cannot have your information cake and cast things, too.
14:33.20industrialbecause it returns when global cooldown for all abilities when it is active as time left before you can use an ability
14:33.37industrialer, it returns the global cooldown*
14:34.20industrialif I can get around that eg tell me the 'real' time left when I'd want to have another go at it :o
14:34.29industrialmy god the typo's
14:34.32industrialleaves for coffee
14:34.41theorbtwoJust check again when the cooldown it told you is over?
14:34.45foxlitI don't really see a problem.
14:35.15foxlitThe cooldown always reflects the amount of time that has to elapse before you use the ability.
14:35.21A-KOhttp://i45.tinypic.com/kbsrd3.jpg < I think rogues are a little OP
14:35.36foxlitThe distinction between global cooldowns, lockouts, and spell cooldowns is artificial at best.
14:36.06industrialand if it is on 1.5 seconds for all your abilities every time you use one but you need one preferenced over the other (priority rotation) the you have a problem
14:36.52foxlitBut it doesn't behave that way.
14:37.01GrumA-KO: because they aoe using tricks on someone far away? :D
14:37.09foxlitThen again, I haven't tried, and am mainly basing this on action bar feedback.
14:37.09industrialhm, I'm going to check it out later then
14:37.26theorbtwoindustrial: So your AI goes "can I do anything now... no, I'll wait 1.5 sec", then "can I do anything now... yes, these six things are possible, and this is the best one".
14:37.55A-KOGrum: maybe :P
14:37.59foxlitBut just translating "use earth shock whenever its up, spam thunder bolt otherwise" into Lua code is boring.
14:38.10theorbtwoWell, yes, quite so.
14:38.15GrumA-KO: calling OP without showing what kind of dmgbreakdown is weak ;)
14:38.25A-KOGrum: Honestly I don't know the dmg breakdown
14:38.28A-KOwas like "OMFG 11K DPS"
14:38.37A-KO*screenshot*
14:38.37Grumbut 11k is not high if they can aoe :P
14:38.37A-KOlol
14:38.41olafskilopeppeppy: I checked, wowhead lists only 2 gem bags :<
14:38.47theorbtwoMore interesting is translating how much damage each of them will do for the thing you are are trying to kill, and doing the one that is closest without going over.
14:38.51foxlitGrum: that fight has a very, very minor emphasis on AoE
14:39.12foxlitThere's only one mob most of the time, and the adds that spawn ignore > 70% of aoe damage.
14:39.18Grumfoxlit: oh yes, but this can be a heroism pull and tott-fokking on the first adds to cause that kind of dmg
14:39.31theorbtwoEr, closest without going over isn't quite right.
14:39.37foxlitI'm only objecting to the "aoe" part :)
14:39.47Grumfoxlit: true on the dmg reduction
14:39.52Grumbut still 11k with heroism is not that much :P
14:40.22foxlitUI crits you for a thousand, though.
14:40.31Grumyeah .. my eyes ....
14:40.55ZorbaTHuttheorb, I've always thought it would be neat if Blizzard had optimal-dps-rotation UI mods that they could use for internal testing
14:41.09ZorbaTHutI suspect they don't, but they really, really should
14:41.20industrialtheorbtwo: there's just a list of abilities that take priority over others for several classes. Some steps along the way require you to cast another spell first for it to outdamage another, so the spell that has to be cast first gets priority, then the current, then the other (say Serpent Sting, chimaera shot, steady shot)
14:41.29theorbtwoZorbaTHut: I think they try to design things so that there isn't an obvious best.
14:41.47ZorbaTHuttheorb, sure, but there's always going to be a best.
14:41.55foxlitJust throw local search at it over the next ~30 seconds.
14:41.57ZorbaTHutand blizzard knows this, and if they're not absolute idiots, they know what the best is.
14:42.03theorbtwoPart of the problem with thinking that way is that you end up with something that works at 80, and isn't any smarter then you.
14:42.21GrumZorbaTHut: you cant create mods that do the most dps possible ;p
14:42.38industrialactually I've got a system like that working pretty failsafe
14:42.38Krapshttp://kotaku.com/5429410/its-never-too-early-to-final-fantasy-cosplay
14:42.39ZorbaTHutplus, if it were properly-constructed, it'd be easy to plug in community rotations and tactics to see if they really are better than the expected best
14:42.43industrialbut I cant talk about that here :p
14:42.45ZorbaTHutgrum, Blizzard certainly could
14:42.46foxlitGrum: I disagree severely. You can create mods that do the OPTIMAL dps possible.
14:42.52Grumyou cant
14:42.58ZorbaTHutwhy not?
14:43.06Grummaybe on a target dummy ... but otherwise no
14:43.17ZorbaTHutI'm assuming it'd be a simulated Patchwerk fight, at least at first
14:43.29ZorbaTHutprobably with an "all raid buffs" aura attached
14:43.41Grumwhich is not realistic ;)
14:43.47Grumi guess they have their own simcraft thingie though
14:43.50foxlitThey balance movement, though, so that's a bit meh. But you can account for that, too.
14:43.53ZorbaTHutit's reasonably realistic for a high-end 25 theorycrafting.
14:44.06ZorbaTHutI mean, I say they should have this largely because there's been plenty of evidence that they *don't* have this
14:44.22Grumthey do have it?
14:44.22ZorbaTHutand this is like the minimum for "don't be stupid/test your design"
14:44.30ZorbaTHutI strongly doubt they have it.
14:44.35Grumif we have it, they have it :P
14:44.58ZorbaTHutreally. we have a UI mod that tests, ingame, the exact rotation in a realistic situation?
14:45.02industrialsomewhere two wo developers are going 'lol, pooned your druid bot'
14:45.05industrialwow*
14:45.16GrumZorbaTHut: no, but they have simcraft
14:45.21Grumwhich is enough for static numbers
14:45.27ZorbaTHutsimcraft isn't 100% realistic
14:45.32ZorbaTHutlargely by virtue of *not being the game*
14:45.37Grumas is a mod
14:45.43theorbtwoZorbaTHut: Are you sure it isn't?
14:45.43ZorbaTHutno, a mod actually would be the game
14:45.50ZorbaTHutit would actually cast the appropriate spells
14:46.06Grumand the benefit would be over having people test it?
14:46.06ZorbaTHuttheorb, reasonably sure, yes :)
14:46.08theorbtwoThe easiest way to do it, from there point of view, is probably to make a private server, and remove all waits.
14:46.18ZorbaTHutgrum, automation, reproducibility, no reliance on human skill
14:46.27Grumnot really realistic
14:46.48ZorbaTHutit's perfectly realistic for a first shot at things. you can add lag and bad decisions in afterwards. my point is that I strongly believe they do not have even the obvious first step
14:46.57Grumits fun that you can for example do 10k theoretical dps with a spriest .. but if the best player in the world only manages to do 8.5k .. what does the 10k say?
14:47.00ZorbaTHutand, yes, the first step is not ideal for testing, but it's the *first step*.
14:47.27ZorbaTHuton the other hand, let's say we show that a real-life fury warrior is doing 10k and the theoretical optimum spriest is doing 8.5k
14:47.35theorbtwoGrum: It says a lot, if you compare to the 9k theoretical dps with a somethingelse.
14:47.40ZorbaTHutthat's the point here - find the serious imbalances and mistakes. WoW has certainly had enough of them.
14:48.01ZorbaTHutIt would *also* give some idea of how "difficult" each class is - cat druid theoretical is 12k, realistic is 9.5k. fury warrior theoretical is 10k, realistic is 9.5k. that's useful information.
14:48.05ZorbaTHut(numbers pulled out of ass)
14:48.06Grumtheorbtwo: not really, because if a simple class can do 10k dps and they actually get 10k .. the real world difference is still 1.5k and causes people to whine
14:48.10foxlitThe question is whether you can do that faster and more efficiently than an 11 million player base.
14:48.20foxlitCheaper, too, perhaps.
14:48.24ZorbaTHutfoxlit, as I said, the automation and reproducibility is important
14:48.38ZorbaTHutthey could just run it on every single build, and if the numbers changed dramatically, fucking yell at someone to figure out why
14:48.46ZorbaTHutpart of their unit tests, essentially.
14:48.51Grumit wouldnt surprise me at all if in blizzard there would be a simcraft version which has all the proper values in it
14:49.02theorbtwoI'm much more interested in an AI that tries to play the character you put in front of it, rather then a theoretical perfectly equiped, perfectly speced, level 80.
14:49.04foxlitZorbaTHut: is it really that much better than running every single build by the forums and fucking yelling at someone to figure out why they're whining?
14:49.11ZorbaTHutgrum, if there were, we wouldn't be having such idiocy with them tweaking values far too much
14:49.18ZorbaTHutfoxlit, by orders of magnitude, yes
14:49.21Grumand the game would be boring
14:49.32ZorbaTHutfirst, being able to fix problems *before* you release a version to eleven million players is, shall we say, preferable
14:49.44foxlitMeh, it's a MMO. They're used to it.
14:49.49ZorbaTHutsecond, it's quite clear that they don't trust the forums very much, and even yelling at the developers through that is frequently ineffective.
14:50.03theorbtwoBlizzard's round trip time for modifications is pretty long.
14:50.03ZorbaTHutsure, and before WoW, we were used to boring grinding. That doesn't mean it's the best system. Only that it's the one we're used to.
14:50.05Grumi'm guessing ZorbaTHut plays a DK :P
14:50.14ZorbaTHutgrum, warrior, mostly
14:50.20ZorbaTHutmy DK is level 60.
14:50.38Grumso why the whining? warriors have been ignored forever
14:50.43Grumyou should be used to it ;)
14:51.05ZorbaTHutyou seem to have a fundamental failure to understand the difference between "whining" and "commenting on how Blizzard could do stuff better"
14:51.15theorbtwoHow long does it take between them identifying what the hell people are actually QQing about in the forums to getting a patch out?  A few weeks, at least, unless it's a bug.
14:51.27ZorbaTHutI'm not complaining that my class is weak. I'm stunned at how abysmal Blizzard's testing and balancing is.
14:51.44GrumZorbaTHut: if all were perfectly balanced you would have a single class inga,e
14:51.53ZorbaTHutgrum, no, that's not true even in theory. You're just blatantly wrong on that.
14:52.03ZorbaTHutI honestly don't know how you can even claim that with a straight face :P
14:52.21Grumi dont know how you can claim you can achieve 'perfect balance' with a straight face =)
14:52.39Grumit is simply impossible unless you squash it all into 1 class, 1 tree, and 1 rotation
14:53.04ZorbaTHutyou can't, but you can certainly do better than Blizzard has.
14:53.15Grumand what will better achieve?
14:53.42ZorbaTHutless time spent chasing 10-20% damage differences, less time spent overcorrecting for overcorrections that were in response to overcorrections to minor issues
14:53.43LunessaBalance means different things to different people.  Since I don't give two shits about PVP, I don't care about things that makes PVPers scream "NOT BALANCED," etc.
14:54.01foxlit30k pyroblast to the face!
14:54.07theorbtwoThat doesn't make much sense to me.  That's like saying there's no possibly way to have two different cars that both have the same 0-60 time.
14:54.14ZorbaTHutand *more* time spent making classes and quests and the like *fun*
14:54.28foxlitOh crap, I nuked my SVs :(
14:54.40foxlitI should stop developing on production WoW :(
14:54.43ZorbaTHuttheorb, it's somewhat more difficult than that - it's like saying there's no way to make two different cars that have the same 0-20, 0-60, 0-100, cornering, handling, shock absorption, and MTBF
14:55.03ZorbaTHutthere's a *lot* of wacky factors that would all have to be balanced. Still, they can certainly do a better job than they currently are.
14:55.10LopeppeppyIt's like saying there's no way to make two different cars that everyone will AGREE have the same X, Y and Z.
14:55.23LopeppeppyBliz might think they do.  But the players don't.  Who is right?
14:55.28ZorbaTHutlope, I'm not even saying they have to make everyone agree on things - but WoW has been objectively unbalanced more than a few times
14:55.37theorbtwoLopeppeppy: Thankfully, for cars, unlike WoW players, there's some pretty standard measurements.
14:55.45LopeppeppyHear hear, theorbtwo.
14:55.52ZorbaTHut(and they've occasionally denied it for literally months before finally going "OH HAY yeah that was broken wasn't it, fixed now! :D :D :D")
14:56.10LopeppeppyAnd Zorba, I know they've messed up sometimes.  It's inevitable.  Everyone remembers those.  Who remembers when they get it right?
14:56.33ZorbaTHutlope, all I'm saying is that there are relatively simple things they could do to screw up less.
14:56.53ZorbaTHutI'm not saying they are horrible in every way, I'm saying they are quite obviously not taking the easy fixes.
14:57.01theorbtwoI do wonder how much data mining they do.
14:57.13LopeppeppyAnd what I'm saying is that the easy fixes in your eyes may not actually be easy from their side of the equation.
14:57.24LunessaZorbaTHut: Naturally.  It's always possible to do /better/.  I'm just curious what exactly you want to be better?  :)
14:57.38cbreakchanging a system with dozens of dependent variables is a pain
14:57.44Lopeppeppy^
14:57.48ZorbaTHutsee, I don't buy that. They absolutely have a cheap way to start servers, and it's not hard, from there, to jam a client in and automate something.
14:57.51cbreakbut doubling frost dps would be a good start
14:57.55ZorbaTHutcbreak, I'm not saying anything about changing. I'm saying *testing*.
14:57.57LopeppeppyEsp. when it's probably dozens of dozens of dozens.
14:58.17theorbtwoDoes Bliz know what the average DPS for a level N rogue is while fighting NPC x?  They could, pretty easily.
14:58.24ZorbaTHutMake a script to do believed optimal rotations, with believed optimal specs and representative gear.
14:58.32ZorbaTHutRun the script. See what happens. Does it match your model? y/n
14:58.39ZorbaTHut(I'm assuming they have models in the first place)
14:58.47cbreakwhy waste a time with scripts?
14:58.51cbreakjust calculate the formula
14:59.00ZorbaTHuttheorb, my theory is that they have models, but the models aren't perfect
14:59.12ZorbaTHutalthough actually I've been skeptical about even that
14:59.24LunessaI'll speak about "testing" in large-scale user installs - Not matter how good you are, your users will decide to do some goofy shit you'd never in a million fucking years attempt.   Your best test is often your production environment - you cover everything you can, then you have to let the code run free.
14:59.34ZorbaTHutcbreak, first, that assumes your formulas are correct. If the internal code doesn't precisely reflect their intended behavior, the formula will be incredibly wrong
14:59.42ZorbaTHutand bugs *always* creep in
14:59.54ZorbaTHutsecond, the "formula" to calculate DPS in WoW is, shall we say, nontrivial
14:59.57cbreakthat's what unit testing is for :)
15:00.07ZorbaTHutthere's a reason the most accurate dps calculators are basically small simulators.
15:00.12theorbtwoWell, I'm explicitly wondering if they have numbers for *what their users actually do*, and not just what an optimal player should be doing.
15:00.12ZorbaTHutYes. And I'm saying they should be unit testing.
15:00.12cbreakdps is irelevant
15:00.15ZorbaTHutCongratulations, you agree with me. :)
15:00.17cbreakit's derived from damage
15:00.34cbreakand the damage formulas are fairly straight forward
15:00.40theorbtwoI really think a much more relevant measure is time-to-defeat-NPC-x.
15:00.48ZorbaTHutlunessa, true, but you can keep covering more. if a user comes up with something clever that you didn't think of, you add that to the test suite.
15:00.55ZorbaTHutcbreak, no, the damage formulas are not fairly straight-forward
15:00.58theorbtwo(Or, contrarywise, "skill level of AI required to defeat NPC x".)
15:01.04ZorbaTHutthe interaction of buffs and talents, raid-wide, is actually quite complex
15:01.12LunessaZorbaTHut: Yes.  And hire some of those goofy people to be in your test group.
15:01.33ZorbaTHutyes, *each individual spell* is simple, but actually calculating, say, cat or moonkin DPS over a period of five minutes . . . *highly* nontrivial in a closed-form equation.
15:01.50ZorbaTHutit would be, at that point, far easier to just run the game with a script.
15:02.05ZorbaTHutlunessa, hell, ask them to volunteer. many people would. :)
15:02.15LopeppeppyOh, you mean like the PTRs?
15:02.19LunessaYeah. :)  Give 'em a t-shirt or a mug.
15:02.19Lopeppeppy*innocent blink*
15:02.25ZorbaTHutI've thought for a while that Blizzard should be explicitly asking a few of the top guilds to chip in and give useful data.
15:02.36theorbtwoHeh.  I'm imagining that ingame mail -- "Hello.  We've noticed that you tend to play your mage like a rogue.  Please join our test group, so we can make mages better at playing like rogues."
15:02.37ZorbaTHutsure, but how often does Blizzard listen to PTR complaints? Blatant imbalances get through PTR fine.
15:02.47ZorbaTHutI mean look at the swarms of nerfs and buffs and tweaks that always happen after a major patch.
15:02.59theorbtwoI don't think blizzard really needs more data on how the very best players play.
15:03.04Lopeppeppy^
15:03.08LunessaData-mining is pretty standard at MMO-dev companies too.  They generate terabytes of logs.
15:03.09ZorbaTHutthe PTRs are pretty much to brute-force bugtest, not to do anything like balance.
15:03.21ZorbaTHuttheorbtwo, no, neither do I
15:03.24cbreakvery best players aren't relevant anyway
15:03.28cbreakaverage players are relevant
15:03.34ZorbaTHutI *do* think they need more *feedback* on issues, from the best players.
15:03.55LunessaActually - average and TERRIBLE players are most relevant.
15:03.56ZorbaTHutthe best players are the ones who are most likely to understand the class the best and have the best ideas of what's problematical/buggy/frustrating. The goal isn't to get combat logs from them
15:04.00ZorbaTHutthe goal is to get braindumps
15:04.42A-KOterrible players are completely irrelevant since they are not capable of providing valuable, useful feedback on content, other than showing that it's probably too damn difficult for their feeble minds :P
15:04.54ZorbaTHuta-ko, exactly
15:05.01ZorbaTHutyou design for the average player, but you need the best players to help do so.
15:05.05A-KOso I guess if you goal is to make terribly easy roflstomping dungeons/content, then sure--their feedback is king.
15:05.24theorbtwoOTOH, the very best players are already likely to keep paying their subscription fee.  The interesting question from Bliz's POV is the terrible players, the ones that join, say "this is too hard", and cancel their account.
15:05.31A-KObut little things about a fight that actually are difficult or impossible to pull off, only the best players can provide that feedback
15:05.39ZorbaTHuttheorb, yes, and as I said, you don't customize for the best players. You pick their brains. They tend to be smart.
15:05.55LunessaA-KO: They also pay the most subscription fees and word-of-mouth your product.  You have to use them as a test bed.  You need to know what stupid shit they're going to do.  You have to make the game playable by them as well as your OMFG-Pro players.
15:05.59theorbtwoZorbaTHut: But is what fustrates them the same thing that fustrates the noob?
15:06.01ZorbaTHutI'm not talking about blindly following their advice, I'm talking about using them as an important source of data that you literally cannot get anywhere else.
15:06.02LopeppeppyA-KO, that's still good feedback.  Some of the changes that Bliz has made recently aren't for the great MMO players, but for the noobs who don't know how to play, who may be coming into WoW as their first MMO.
15:06.10ZorbaTHuttheorb, how do you know if you don't ask them? :P
15:06.21ZorbaTHut(answer: yes, they will probably have at least some idea of what is frustrating, even if it's just from talking to friends)
15:06.29theorbtwoHm, point.
15:06.36A-KOtheorbtwo: I don't think there's been any significant exodus or change in playerbase by what blizzard has done to make the content more accessible to everyone. WoW continues to have a huge playerbase, and it had this even before "easy content". I think having the options of arenas has certainly helped them, but as far as 10/25 dungeons, or hard modes--I don't think it has.
15:06.38*** join/#wowuidev Elkano (n=elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano)
15:06.46A-KOLopeppeppy: WoW was my first MMO :P
15:06.55A-KObut then again, I was a huge RPG fanatic beforehand so
15:07.01ZorbaTHutI mean, warrior gripe: Heroic Strike and Cleave are annoying. I'm not saying they need to be buffed, I'm saying the idea is broken and annoying and everyone who seriously plays a warrior hates them.
15:07.14ZorbaTHutbut a newbie player won't even *use* them, because they annoy him
15:07.20ZorbaTHutso he'll complain that his dps or threat is substandard.
15:07.29LunessaAlso - Very often I hear MASS cries of "this is broken" or "unusable" or "sucks" for things that very obviously do not suck.   CF: Shaman in WotLK beta - some issues, but not "broken" as many people claimed.
15:07.30ZorbaTHutwhich advice is more useful? answer: the one that fixes the root of the problem.
15:08.06A-KOLunessa: and anyone saying their shit is "broken" without providing useful feedback or details as to why is not good feedback, which is the kind of feedback you're likely to get from poor players because they do not understand how to provide good feedback.
15:08.19A-KOother than "THIS IS BROKEN THIS SUCKS I'M QUITTING"
15:08.34theorbtwoZorbaTHut: Which is why you watch them play, and then ask "why aren't you using heroic strike", and they say "well, I did, but it was annoying, so I stopped".
15:08.42Balreignearthshock's nerf, how that helps players?
15:08.47ZorbaTHuttheorb, true. as I said, multi-prong approach.
15:08.59ZorbaTHutjust asking your best players is likely to be cheaper than running focus tests and usability tests, however.
15:09.14LunessaMost people I've met playing this game are terrible at math and even worse at paying attention to detail.  All they ever seem to end up being able to tell me is "This sucks"
15:09.18ZorbaTHutplus, trying to run usability tests on WoW is difficult
15:09.19A-KOso who here thinks they'll nerf deathwhisper and saurfang jr in a few weeks? :P
15:09.32ZorbaTHutyou want to show people stuff at 80, but you can't sit there watching while someone goes from level 1 to level 80 in your office
15:09.44A-KOLunessa: yes, but that's not useful feedback. That's the kind of feedback I get at work when people ask me to fix a problem. "It's broken" "okay, what's broken?" "well it just doens't work right"
15:09.49ZorbaTHutso out of necessity you're getting volunteers who already know how to play, and then, congrats, they're already polluted data
15:09.56A-KOit tells me, as someone who builds systems, and has a secondary support role, nothing.
15:10.35LunessaA-KO: Preaching to the choir. I've done this work for most of my adult life.
15:10.40WobinShadowed, I'm listening to http://tinyurl.com/n547um as I code, for inspiration =)
15:11.02LunessaI'm just making a case for having a test group of your worst players, not just your best players.
15:11.45A-KOyeah but, if the best players are working well with somehting, even if it's a bit unintuitive--does that mean the system is broken?
15:11.48A-KOI don't think it does
15:11.59Wobinalthough, holy heck, 9.3MB... I don't think I can package that into an addon =(
15:12.07foxlitWobin: owch.
15:12.09Wobingoes for the Project Gutenberg version
15:12.15foxlitTrumpets, inspiration, never.
15:12.27Wobinfoxlit, it all depends on what you're trying to inspire =)
15:12.34theorbtwoI think there's at least two very different problems for blizzard.
15:12.34A-KOit's like the shit I deal with at work--no matter how easy I continue to make the systems I'm building to configure, no matter how many scripts I put in, directions I provide, instructions with PICTURES--people still find some way to break it.
15:12.39A-KOit's inevitable
15:12.53theorbtwoThe first is keeping people from the trial into the first month, and the first month into the second.
15:13.00Wobinfoxlit, here's a hint... http://screencast.com/t/MDg3NDc1
15:13.02theorbtwoThe second is keeping people who have hit 80 around.
15:13.23theorbtwo(And, to a lesser extent, making the 60s and 70s buy the next expansion.)
15:13.26A-KOtheorbtwo: the first will be easier once cataclysm hits and they redesign the lowbie areas--it's right now pretty frustrating. Admittedly, the dungeon finder has probably provided some utility for that problem as well.
15:13.34LunessaA-KO: I l know.  And for something as complex to learn as an MMO?  even worse.
15:14.35theorbtwoMy point is largely that the best players, the ones who have been around since beta, can't see the problems of the first group.
15:14.55A-KOhonestly theorbtwo, Blizzard's best weapon is word of mouth--and that will continue to be the best. You need to get players hyped up about the content, even if they don't understand why. The way they marketed Icecrown, the entirety of the Wrath expansion has been phenomenal. They continue to promote the "big bad boss", the "story", and really drawing in players to the storyline.
15:15.34A-KOeven if players sit there and say they're not lore nerds, etc. Even if they know nothing about Arthas' past, they do know of the "Lich King", and they do know he's a big bad ass that they haven't killed yet
15:15.56theorbtwoRemeber how this conversation started -- AI?  It was about best-rotation, vs hard dynamic AI.  Best-rotation *doesn't work* while leveling, because the best rotation changes every time you fiddle things, but almost nobody seems to care.
15:16.02WobinA-KO, I thought their main weapons were fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope
15:16.08theorbtwoWobin++
15:16.11A-KOlol Wobin
15:16.34foxlitNobody expects the blizzard marketing department?
15:16.43WobinThey -do- get nice red uniforms
15:17.12theorbtwoHm, that's what I can do today -- I can try out this chrismas^Wwintervale stuff.
15:17.16cbreakI've never heard of someone who read red text on the forum
15:17.19cbreakand survived
15:17.38LunessaWobin: Quick take the bus to Justice Square!
15:17.41Fisker[16:14:53][2. Trade] [Shanhili]: LF1M to ICC 25 man boss run! Only need 1 Tank.. /w me your class and talent and you will get an [invite] if we need you! LINK THE EPIC ACHIVEMENT! <-reverse achievement requirement fail
15:17.42theorbtwoNeed to decide in the next couple of weeks if I want to pay January's fee.
15:18.40foxlitDo you want to make the peon cry?
15:18.52*** join/#wowuidev Trela (n=Alexia@pa-67-234-204-174.dhcp.embarqhsd.net)
15:19.12LunessaFinally tanked the final ICC 5-Man last night on my druid.  Why, why, why, why do people insist on making the bear-tank's job harder than it has to be?
15:19.14*** join/#wowuidev Bibi (n=Bibi@80.214.253.70)
15:19.43foxlitLunessa: probably because they aren't aware of your difficulties.
15:19.57foxlitAnd/or think you should bear up and face adversity. Or something.
15:20.17ScytheBlade1lunessa: world. hates. you. :)
15:20.19ScytheBlade1also
15:20.21ScytheBlade1http://www.savagechickens.com/images/chickensantaletter.jpg
15:20.28theorbtwo...or educate them on how to make your job less difficult.
15:20.32LunessaThe Paladin healer kept screaming at me "pick up this! OMG there's a mob getting past you!"  Well WTF did you judge it before I hit it?
15:21.06foxlitI've resigned myself to tanking the ranged mobs on those waves in pugs.
15:21.29foxlitPeople tend to just ignore them, which means they end up on me anyway.
15:22.13LunessaThe final wave on the walk of fear is REALLY hard.  I end up raged starved right towards the end because I'm having to grab stuff off some n00b who think AoEing stuff before it's in my range is wise.
15:22.44ZorbaTHutlunessa, lol if i dont aoe then my dps is bad
15:23.41LunessaZorbaTHut: But to you start with oh, say Mind Sear on a new batch while I'm tanking 4 other mobs /before/ they get close enough for me to /do anything/ to them?
15:24.22ZorbaTHutlunessa, basically people are terrible :P
15:24.37LunessaYes.
15:24.55LunessaAnd then they say "OMFG you're terrible."
15:25.21*** join/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan@c-76-107-191-65.hsd1.tn.comcast.net)
15:25.21*** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ
15:25.49ZorbaTHutI had two healers yesterday wipe the party through being idiots and then leave the group
15:27.12LunessaI'm mostly having fun tanking, but sometimes... I want to KILL someone in my party.
15:27.34cbreakas tank, you can :)
15:27.45Seerahhehe
15:27.51Lunessa"ooops, did I miss a taunt?  Sowwy."
15:28.04Seerahwill be very careful next time :p
15:30.46Lunessaneeds to tank for Seerah so she can finish getting to 80.
15:31.08Seerahneeds to play to finish getting to 80 :)
15:31.15LunessaYes plx.
15:34.52A-KOhttp://i.imgur.com/Xuo7S.jpg
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15:41.01zenzelezzLunessa: when in particular are you wanting to kill teammates?
15:41.13zenzelezzif they're being too stupid, I just tell them outright they they stop it or I let them die
15:41.16Lunessazenzelezz: Pretty much any time I'm pugging as a tank.
15:41.20*** join/#wowuidev DWSR (n=doingwha@unaffiliated/dwsr)
15:41.34LunessaScratch that.  Pretty much any time I'm pugging.
15:44.10cbreakI had luck the few times I used the pug tool so far
15:44.23cbreakboth times :)
15:44.26zenzelezzI mostly have luck, but I've had my share of idiiots
15:44.38zenzelezzwhy do I keep typoing when I'm calling others fools
15:44.47Fiskerwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwes333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333z<z<z<z<jkmmm54mm                           45555555555555555555
15:45.06durcynreally Fisker
15:45.37foxlitFisker: cutoff at 5.
15:45.48zenzelezz...
15:45.49zenzelezzew
15:46.19Fiskermy keyboard is so comfortable
15:47.07LunessaI like the LookingForDungeon tool - really.  I just have moments where I feel like my groups are deliberately trying to make my life harder than it needs to be. :)
15:47.41zenzelezzLunessa: I know what you mean
15:47.47Lopeppeppyis innocent!
15:47.53LunessaThis time!
15:49.32foxlitMy LFD groups (especially random heroics) have been blissful.
15:50.05zenzelezzmost of my bad heroic PUGs have been in the new ones, especially HoR
15:50.23*** join/#wowuidev ColinT (n=ColinT@69-11-97-130.regn.static.sasknet.sk.ca)
15:50.47foxlitOccasionally we outgear content by such a margin that I can spec dps and throw out an occasional rejuv. People seem to be relatively content with that.
15:50.51Grumzenzelezz: i'd like to trade
15:51.19Grumi'm getting CoT, OK, Occulus, OK, Nexus (good one one :P), OK etc :(
15:51.49Grumi'd love to get the new instances in random for once :)
15:52.16foxlit/hate Nexus, personally.
15:52.26Grumwhy? its so short
15:52.27Lunessafoxlit: Yeah, this time last week the druid had just turned 80.  As of last night I've tanked every 5-man instance in WotLK and have an "ok" mix of gear in the iLevel 200-245 range.
15:52.43zenzelezzGrum: I get all of those, I was saying the new ones are the ones I get poor people for
15:52.54Grumaah k
15:53.01Grumi've had some scrubs as well
15:53.05LunessaGrum: I started getting them once a) I'd finsihed the quests that unlocked them, b) my gear met the threshold.
15:53.08foxlitzenzelezz: you probably get the same mix of people for everything, it's just that the new ones are tuned to accomodate.
15:53.09Grum2 people doing ~500 dps :P
15:53.17ScytheBlade1home sick sucks :/
15:53.20GrumLunessa: what threshold? O.o
15:53.29foxlitThere's an item level requirement on those.
15:53.33Grumand i'm running around in 232/245/251 stuff atm
15:53.39*** join/#wowuidev Ycarene (i=jporterf@24-116-56-41.cpe.cableone.net)
15:53.42foxlitLFD isn't entirely masochistic.
15:53.56LunessaGrum: I couldn't do ToC or the ICC ones until I had gear over some sort of threshold that the LFD tool expected.
15:54.11Grumhow can you see which ones you can do?
15:54.13ScytheBlade1cogwheel_: heh, you spam everyone and then some with that? ;)
15:54.20Grumby not doing random but trying to queue for a specific one?
15:55.06*** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (n=kalroth@2506ds1-hj.0.fullrate.dk)
15:55.46LunessaGrum - Something like that.
15:55.59foxlitWhere are the client caches stored again?
15:56.01Grumoh i might have some single item preventing me from getting em :D
15:56.16GrumWDB/Cache orso?
15:56.34foxlitHm, Cache/WDB/enGB
15:56.45Grumah other way aorund ;D
15:56.52foxlitWonder why the client freezes on "Connected" now
15:57.02foxlit[well, temporarily drops framerate to zero]
15:57.45foxlitHm, what the heck.
15:58.15foxlitIf I wipe those caches, and do a for i=1,GetNumCompanions... GetCompanionInfo(..., i) loop on COMPANION_UPDATE, I get a wrong index for Swift Alliance Steed
15:58.37foxlitIt's 58 when the event fires; subsequently index 58 turns out to be Yellow Qiraji Battle Tank.
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15:59.19foxlitIn general, the entire ID map is wrong.
15:59.55foxlitis inclined to blame the client.
16:00.35Lopeppeppyblames the doctor who allowed him to expire!
16:01.46Fiskeryou wouldn't steal a car
16:01.57LopeppeppyHave before, why wouldn't I again?
16:02.45zenzelezzinnocent, eh?
16:02.58LopeppeppyAs the driven snow.  *weg*
16:03.27zenzelezzokay... what does "weg" mean?
16:04.29Lopeppeppywicked evil grin
16:05.39olafskigone in dutch
16:10.39foxlitlua> "foo" <= "bar"
16:10.40lua_botfoxlit: false
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16:24.38FiskerROBOT HOUSE
16:26.04LopeppeppyWith cheese.
16:26.58cogwheel_mmmm cheese
16:27.08LopeppeppyI cannot has. Eat some for me?
16:27.17cogwheelAbsolutely.
16:27.31cogwheelI've probably already eaten more than your fair share
16:27.41LopeppeppyThank you, dear.  You're always very kind to think of my needs.  :P
16:27.47cogwheel=D
16:27.59cogwheelhttp://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/drugs-world/ <-- warning: this website is rather addicting
16:29.20Fiskerslaps cogwheel around a bit with a large trout
16:29.30cogwheelmmm trout omnomnom
16:29.56Fiskerroadhouse
16:30.08Lunessacogwheel: 1. Site is relevant to my interests.  2.  I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.  3.  Cheese - YUM!  4. Fish - BLECH.
16:30.30ZorbaTHutcog, I love how cannabis is just chilling out in the center
16:30.32ZorbaTHutit's all, 'sup
16:30.36cogwheelZorbaTHut: lol yeah
16:31.43LunessaMore compounds should be there.  three stages of toxins: 1. Stimulant 2. Depressant 3. Fatal
16:31.51ZorbaTHutI wonder if queueing for Hellfire Ramparts at level 60 on a DK as tank with no actual tank gear is a bad idea
16:32.23ZorbaTHutespecially if I'm using leather shoulders and chest
16:33.10foxlitThat diagram bugged me in its non-Venn-ness.
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16:41.10Fiskersomeone dug out the tank, healer and dps icons in the new LFD?
16:42.01zenzelezzI'm sure they did
16:42.05LopeppeppyWhy is that surprising?
16:43.54FiskerLopeppeppy l2?
16:48.45kdtreshugh, too many people listing 500 infinite dust in stacks of 1 ><
16:51.54olafskirather annoying, that
16:54.46Fiskerl2auctionator
16:54.54Fiskeranyways zenzelezz
16:54.55Fiskergiev
16:55.39*** part/#wowuidev Kaso (n=Kaso@studio.fuzemedia.co.uk)
17:00.06Lunessacogwheel: http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/left-vs-right-us/ - could the author have used any more "loaded" language?
17:00.32zenzelezzLunessa: that's a loaded question
17:00.51Lunessa280 grains worth zenzelezz.
17:01.19*** join/#wowuidev Schnaks (n=Schnaks@p5486F611.dip.t-dialin.net)
17:01.58LopeppeppyYeah, I've seen that one before and scoffed, Lunessa.
17:02.27LunessaDoesn't matter which side of the diagram you look at.
17:02.48LunessaThough the author's bias is evident.
17:02.58LopeppeppyI can't be both fulfilled and self-reliant.  I can't be both moral and open.  I can't grow up rural and be a scientist.
17:03.07LopeppeppyF that noise.
17:03.18cogwheelGeneralization is general imo
17:04.03cogwheelfrom my (mostly) libertarian pov, it seems pretty accurate, though the issues themselves are a bit cherry-picked
17:04.16LopeppeppyI'm still going with F that noise whenever there's a pigeon hole someone wants me inside of.
17:04.22LunessaThe diagram is interesting, but picked to reflect a bias.
17:05.26cogwheelI tend not to think of generalizations as pigeon-holing. It's all about trends, averages, etc. It's only when someone tries to apply a generalization to a specific person that it falls apart
17:05.30TorhalLopeppeppy: I've decided that you fit the description of "Peppy". So, there!
17:06.30*** join/#wowuidev mitchnull (n=mitchnul@catv3EC944A1.pool.t-online.hu)
17:06.59Arrowmasterfrom a generalized pov the diagram looks mostly accurate
17:07.34Lunessa*shrug*  I didn't think so.
17:08.04LopeppeppyTorhal, I very do.  :)  90% of the time at least.
17:08.04kdtreshi think that diagram is a lot of hooey, from a generalized pov
17:08.08Lunessa"Relationship built on Resopect & Fear" ?
17:08.11*** join/#wowuidev Roofel (n=chatzill@c845245C1.dhcp.bluecom.no)
17:08.12LopeppeppyThe other 10% I'm chonically depressed.
17:08.45cogwheelLunessa: sounds about right to me... conservatives are much more likely to rule their household with an iron fist (and belts, and paddles, and wooden spoons)
17:09.15Arrowmasteralthough it may not be as noticeable now than it was 20 years ago
17:09.23kdtreshwhat are you basing that on, cog?
17:09.24LunessaFunny - didn't work like that in my home.
17:09.35cogwheelkdtresh: literature in the religious right
17:09.38LunessaAnd I'd call my parents very conservative.
17:09.40cogwheelLunessa: that's what i mean
17:09.53cogwheelyou're trying to apply a generalization to your specific situation and that's why it falls apart
17:10.05cogwheelgeneralizations aren't statements of "everybody in this group behaves this way"
17:10.31zenzelezzI wonder how much feedback Microsoft gets of this sort: http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/2009/12/18/9938499.aspx
17:10.40cogwheelthe plural of anecdote is not data
17:10.49LunessaMeh - diagram is insulting to both PoVs.  I guess I should be content witht hat.
17:10.56cogwheel*nod*
17:11.00LopeppeppyTrue that, Lunessa.
17:11.30kdtreshjust because it's equally insulting doesn't make it correct, lol
17:11.33Arrowmasteryeah it is because highlights some of the worst generalizations of both sides
17:12.44kdtreshand that only accounts for a couple pieces
17:13.18kdtreshlike lunessa said, it's biased and cherry-picked
17:17.11Shiriklua> math.sqrt(0.5*0.5)
17:17.12lua_botShirik: 0.5
17:17.18Shiriklua> math.sqrt(0.25*0.75)
17:17.19lua_botShirik: 0.43301270189222
17:17.43ShirikCide
17:17.44Shirikbah
17:17.46Shirikwhere did you go
17:17.51Shirikhi Lopeppeppy
17:22.03LopeppeppyHeya.
17:25.05_raneis there a known bug that breaks addons that depend on combat log events?
17:25.23_ranebug in blizzard's API or something
17:25.52_raneI have multiple addons that seem to break simultaneously
17:25.55LopeppeppySomeone was mentioning something similar to that that a few days ago...
17:26.02zenzelezzjesus... a 2.35:1 TV o_O That thing just looks wrong
17:26.16LopeppeppyOkay, not giving me a name for the new user you want created?  Not helpful.  I need a name, peoples!
17:26.29zenzelezzLopeppeppy: Steve
17:26.48kdtreshherbert?
17:28.50*** join/#wowuidev p3lim (n=Miranda@89-151-222.200.3p.ntebredband.no)
17:31.06LopeppeppyI'm going with Wingnut Choy!
17:32.32*** join/#wowuidev Odlaw (n=ozzy@c-98-245-3-204.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
17:47.14Fiskerlink zenzelezz
17:47.31zenzelezzdon't have one, was a commercial on TV
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17:49.59frontendloaderdoes anyone happen to have a table of all quest id's available to horde by chance?
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17:53.08Arrowmasterwowhead does
17:54.57zenzelezzI really don't like when people (claim to?) have bidding rounds on trade chat. "WTS ... highest bid X by Y"
17:55.00zenzelezzuse the damn AH
17:56.11foxlitAt least they're trading in trade chat.
17:56.15frontendloaderArrowmaster: but wowhead would make me scrape it to get that table :(
18:01.32nicoli_sonce we get around to updating wowdb, we will be adding a nice data lookup feature
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18:03.29alestanegives Lopeppeppy some spoons.
18:03.47*** join/#wowuidev Schnaks (n=Schnaks@p5486F3CE.dip.t-dialin.net)
18:04.18LopeppeppyI wish I could have extra spoons, alestane.
18:05.06A-KO<PROTECTED>
18:05.08A-KOI can't wait!!!!!!
18:05.10A-KOdances
18:05.13A-KOdoes the happy dance
18:05.39alestaneWhere are you?
18:05.52A-KOBaltimore
18:05.57ZorbaTHutoh dammit blizzard nerfed the look of Hellreaver
18:06.02ZorbaTHutit doesn't look nearly as awesome :(
18:06.09LopeppeppyThat's coming through below us, alestane, for once it's missing us!
18:06.11alestaneSounds like it's not quite expected to make it up to us.
18:06.22cbreakdoes it come close to the legendary look of Atiesh? :)
18:06.32A-KOI love snow
18:06.38A-KOI wish we had more of it here
18:06.45LopeppeppyI hates the blizzards, A-KO, you can keep it!  :)
18:06.52alestaneThat must be a bit of a shock for some place like Baltimore that's not really accustomed to heavy snow as much.
18:07.12A-KOalestane: yeah we don't get heavy amounts of swnow like that, maybe once or twice every couple of years. We used to get them on the regular, but not much anymore
18:07.18A-KOthis is the biggest snow fall I can remember coming for the past 6 years
18:07.20alestaneLopeppeppy: Even if you don't have to drive in them or shovel them?
18:07.29A-KO6 years ago we got like 3 feet of snow
18:07.37A-KOI was <3'ing that
18:08.26_ranehmm, "Mikord said: Please read the announcements and comments. Your question has been answered several times. There is a Blizzard combat log bug. MSBT 5.4.74 attempts to address the issue with a hack until Blizzard fixes their bug, though there might still be some missing."
18:08.29foxlit"The datas of this scoreboard are from the avg of top50 DPS for THE boss and it's for cross-classes compare."
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18:09.17foxlitI... Er.... Never mind, it's too painful to interpret.
18:09.44foxlitCrimes against the language should clearly be prosecuted somehow.
18:10.19alestaneThat is, like, the royal flush of grammar errors.
18:10.49Lopeppeppyalestane, it's been many many many years since I haven't had to drive or shovel the snows.  I'm an adult, remember?
18:11.43alestaneWhat is this adulthood of which you speak?
18:11.54Seerahsrsly
18:11.56Seerah:)
18:11.59alestaneStill, I'll own that I probably would dread shoveling a lot more if I had a frozen shoulder.
18:12.03LopeppeppyThat which sucketh and eats my spoons, alestane.
18:12.21LopeppeppyYou're forgetting the bum hand too!
18:12.53SeerahLopeppeppy needs to find some college kids desperate for money
18:13.04LopeppeppyIf I had any to give them, of course.
18:13.30SeerahI said "desperate" ;)  If they were desperate enough, they might even do it for $5 :p
18:13.32LopeppeppyThe complex does a lot of the work, but I do have to shovel out my car itself, that's still about a half hour to 45 minutes.
18:13.58LopeppeppyDepending on whether it was buried by snowplow, pickup truck, or friggin' bulldozer.
18:14.26SeerahI love when it's 1 foot of half-melted, heavy, icy snow...
18:14.43LopeppeppyOh, yeah, that's the bestest.
18:14.50LopeppeppyNext to snow that has ice on top of it.
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18:19.46zenzelezz... just watched a death knight die 10 seconds after Keristrasza died because he failed to rid himself of the debuff
18:20.58zenzelezzwish the druid hadn't bothered resurrecting him
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18:27.29zenzelezzgod I hate it when a death knight uses Army of the Dead on a boss
18:28.20ScytheBlade1why?
18:28.28DagmarClassist.
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18:29.22zenzelezzbecause they taunt
18:29.27zenzelezzor something similar
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18:33.05alestaneIt does completely throw most tanks off their stride.
18:33.23alestaneAll of a sudden they're relegated more or less to melee DPS until the ghouls are all dead.
18:33.53alestaneAnd since the boss usually uses their "dead player" speech on killing one, it's easy for the tank to worry that players are getting killed.
18:33.58LopeppeppyIf I were a tank, I'd consider that as rude as sending in a taunting hunter pet.
18:34.12zenzelezzworse
18:34.13LopeppeppyConfuses the fight.
18:34.18zenzelezzthese 100% steal aggro
18:34.19ShadowedAnd you can lose rage so you get less threat
18:36.07alestaneIt means that the boss is running frantically around, spinning and killing things like popcorn, completely  uncontrollable, which is generally a tank's worst nightmare.
18:37.08LopeppeppyAnd where does the boss go when the popcorn is done?  We all pray back to the tank, but we know it ain't so.
18:38.06alestaneI will forgive it as an "oh shit" button. I hate to see it popped at the beginning of a boss fight just for extra DPS.
18:38.21ZorbaTHutI actually don't mind on heroics because it's generally hilarious
18:38.31LunessaUsually the boss is grabbing a broom handle and screaming "It's Guilliani time!"
18:38.42ZorbaTHutespecially if it's a dragon because then it just spins around and blasts people all over the place
18:38.51alestaneLunessa: ...do I want that comment explained?
18:39.30Lunessaalestane: No, not really.  THink back to the 90s and the man who sued NYCPD because he was ... searched with one.
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18:41.11LunessaDon't mind me.  I'm in a strange place, hopped up on sugar and pain meds.
18:41.19Dagmar"Hepped up on goofballs"
18:41.48LopeppeppyGoofed up on hepballs.
18:42.01zenzelezzsome guy on trade has been offering to sell a Battered Hilt for 25k for two hours now... and the complaints and flames have continued the whole time x.x
18:42.05alestaneWhat about Katherine Hepburn?
18:42.41*** join/#wowuidev Ixnorp (i=ixnorp@74.83.217.73)
18:44.15zenzelezzThe Oculus Effect - "sry guys gtg"
18:44.51LunessaSo, we took a major system offline yesterday morning.  We told the everyone with three different reminders via e-mail it was going to be offline from Dec 17 - Jan 4. New software, new hardware.  We can only do this between semesters.   So why do several faculty feel they get a free pass to tell me we're incompetent and hindering their work for taking it offline?
18:45.20alestaneThe oculus is much more manageable now...admittedly I didn't experience it before, but it basically just seems like a slightly gimmicky dungeon.
18:45.47alestaneSince you can't requeue for another 15 minutes anyway, might as well spend it getting badges.
18:45.54olafskiI'm in a group with tank, healer and 2 dps and we've been in the queue for 2 minutes already.. how can this be
18:47.39zenzelezzI have this mental picture of the Blizzard guys sitting around thinking "well, you wanted Oculus easier, here you go... now you're damn well going to play it!"
18:47.54NightHawkTheSanezenzelezz: If i were them,I would do that.
18:47.59NightHawkTheSanebut I'm a vindictive jerk.
18:50.32Dagmarolafski: There's two fat tauren stuck in the tubes causing backup
18:51.45LopeppeppyThose faculty can just sit and spin, Lunessa.  *huggle*
18:52.18LopeppeppyI'm sorry they're like that though, it sucks when they get all up in arms, and they do it in such a...  how can we even describe the way that faculty take on about their precious academic freedoms?
18:53.09alestaneSometimes, the network must come down.
18:53.28LunessaLopeppeppy: And he's tenured.  So telling him to do something biologically improbable is unwise.
18:53.49alestaneHis position is rather more secure than yours.
18:53.53*** join/#wowuidev Schnaks_ (n=Schnaks@p5486B381.dip.t-dialin.net)
18:54.07Lunessaexactly.  I'm staff.  he's got tenure.
18:55.08DagmarSo you hire a florist to do it for you, and pay in cash
18:56.17LunessaDagmar: HAHAH
18:57.58alestaneProvided, of course, that you can find one who doesn't mind putting "cornhole" into a bougainvillea arrangement.
18:58.22DagmarNah you just fill out the little card they give you, put it in the envelope, it gets mounted in a little plastic fork
18:58.56DagmarThe florist delivers, said twit gets a lot of attention for getting flowers delivered, everyone's gathered around... "Who sent you flowers?"  "What's the card say?"
18:58.59DagmarHilarity ensues.
18:59.03LopeppeppySend him a singing telegram, so everyone in the department learns that he's a pompous asshat with no sense of proportion.
19:00.01DagmarI did it to the first place I got fired from.
19:00.40DagmarBeing that I don't even apply for jobs I can't do in my sleep, she definitely deserved it.
19:01.07DagmarWoman was crazy.  You don't let your paranoia make you fire someone billing 20-25 billable repair hours a day
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19:07.51alestaneI could wish that "Comcast" didn't so easily fumblefinger the way it does.
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19:26.36industrialWhat are the best enhancement shaman glyphs right now in 3.3?
19:29.48cogwheelcan think of several people who should get this book for Christmas: http://bit.ly/8vwK4I
19:30.58NightHawkTheSanelua> 50%10
19:30.58lua_botNightHawkTheSane: 0
19:31.03NightHawkTheSanelua> 10%50
19:31.03lua_botNightHawkTheSane: 10
19:31.33Yssarillua> 2%3
19:31.33lua_botYssaril: 2
19:31.40Yssarillua> 3%2
19:31.41lua_botYssaril: 1
19:32.25alestane2 ~= 3.
19:32.31alestaneEven for very large values of 2.
19:32.41cogwheelUniversities should not have degrees in subjects whose only job prospects are to work at the universities which have degrees in those subjects
19:32.57DagmarIt's a profzi scheme.
19:33.19alestaneThat assumes that job prospects are the entire goal of a university fegree.
19:33.23alestanedegree*
19:33.37cogwheeltrue...
19:33.57cogwheelbut at least they shouldn't complain about the lack of jobs when universities have cutbacks
19:34.20alestaneI won't disagree on that point.
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19:35.29kdtreshit's not the university's fault in that instance though
19:35.41cogwheel*nod*
19:35.55cogwheelrevises his stance
19:36.35zenzelezznow in berserker stance
19:36.36alestaneYour feet need to be closer together.
19:36.45ZorbaTHutalso, people shouldn't assume that a degree has anything to do with employability
19:37.05cogwheelZorbaTHut: especially employers, imo
19:37.11cogwheel><
19:37.14ZorbaTHutquite true
19:38.40ZorbaTHutfrom my time in a C++ programming channel I have determined that, given four people with apparently equal skills, one of which has no degree, one with a bachelor's, one with a master's, and one with a doctorate's, hiring priority for anything that is not complete grunt coding should go nodegree>master>bachelor>doctorate
19:39.04VonhintenHOME`lol
19:39.08ZorbaTHutit is a weird pattern but it seems to be consistent. I have literally never met someone with a doctorate who actually wrote good code.
19:39.23alestaneGood for what, though.
19:39.44ZorbaTHutalestane, that's why I say "not complete grunt coding". I admit I don't have enough sample size to break things down in extremely fine detail, though
19:39.49KarlKFIthat's assuming they have 'equal skills' tho
19:40.03ZorbaTHutkarl, well, it's assuming they have apparently roughly equal. obviously, they are literally equal, there's no difference
19:40.12DagmarCrap coding is the norm.
19:40.15ZorbaTHuter, obviously *if* they are literally equal
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19:40.27DagmarThe only people I ever see really thoroughly document their code are kids
19:40.44KarlKFIwell if they have equal skills that means the nongrad is MUCH better at absorbing skills.
19:40.47ZorbaTHutdocumentation is both underrated and overrated. sometimes it's just not warranted
19:41.02ZorbaTHutkarl, exactly :)
19:41.09DagmarI'd say it's warranted for anything greater than three lines
19:41.23DagmarUnless you've documented what the code is supposed to do, people get to guess.
19:41.46cogwheelDagmar: that's assuming you write code that can't be understood easily imo
19:41.51KarlKFIbut a nongrad having the same knowledge as a doctorite is doubtful
19:42.04VonhintenHOME`Zorba, people without formal education in the subject are likely to be "naturals", self-applied and intelligent
19:42.17cogwheelif you use meaningful variable names and appropriate levels of abstraction, code becomes essentially self-documenting
19:42.18Lopeppeppyor vastly  misguided.  :)
19:42.19Dagmarcogwheel: I look at it like this.  People understand well-written English easily, but even writing that is hard at times.
19:42.22ZorbaTHutdagmar, it also assumes the code is worth documenting
19:42.25ZorbaTHutsometimes you're writing a hack job and don't plan to maintain it
19:42.31DagmarOkay, I give you that, Z.
19:42.53Dagmar...but normally, there's a wide range of what "easily understood" actually means
19:42.53ZorbaTHutalternatively, sometimes you need something *now* and don't have time to document it. or maybe you're expecting it to mutate so severely that time spent documenting now would essentially be wasted.
19:43.33cogwheelComments are appropriate where something in the code may not be clear. Using things like doxygen or javadoc though serves an entirely separate purpose. In that case you're documenting the public interfaces for clients of the software.
19:43.36DagmarYou write a sentence or two in plain English about what the following section of code is supposed to do, and anyone trailing behind can read that.  If the code doesn't do what _that_ says, you know there's a bug.
19:43.44ZorbaTHutat my first job I got a rather horrifying task that basically came down to "so, uh, we just realized pathfinding in our game is broken. Fix it. You have two weeks before code freeze. It has to be stable and fast."
19:43.47ScytheBlade1huh
19:43.49ZorbaTHutI did not exactly have time to comment.
19:43.52ScytheBlade1I just got my first WoW phishing email ever
19:43.57zenzelezzI tend to insert obvious comments now and then so the colours on my screen look more balanced
19:44.05DagmarCode can be completely technically correct and still do entirely the wrong thing.
19:44.08DagmarHence, plain english.
19:44.19Lopeppeppycongrats, ScytheBlade1.
19:44.27ZorbaTHut(It was quite fun. I liked that job)
19:44.39DagmarScytheBlade1: How many times are you going to respond to it?
19:44.43cogwheelDagmar: you can get the same effect by proper refactoring and method naming
19:44.45VonhintenHOME`deadlines often preclude documentation, unit tests, and code reviews
19:45.00Dagmarcogwheel: I actually disagree
19:45.06cogwheelk :)
19:45.18ZorbaTHutdagmar, "functions as designed"
19:45.24DagmarI cut and paste bits out of design documents when I can
19:45.28ZorbaTHutor its even more hilarious sibling, "functions as implemented"
19:45.31ScytheBlade1Dagmar: eleventy billion. With a pair of 100mbit pipes.
19:45.40DagmarScytheBlade1: Damn straight.  :)
19:45.50cogwheelDagmar: also, unit tests.
19:46.10zenzelezzmetric or imperial units?
19:46.25cogwheel(which in TDD essentially function as the design doc, verify your code does what it's supposed to do, illustrates how it's intended to be used, etc)
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19:51.05Sesshuhttp://img10.yfrog.com/i/dkuib.jpg/
19:51.59cogwheel>< "My DNA is apparently under the impression that it’s going to replicate by spanking other women, and I’m happy to let it dream on."
19:52.19DagmarThat image is awful.  lol
19:53.45olafski<    Dagmar> olafski: There's two fat tauren stuck in the tubes causing backup <-- what, I have to share my tubes with the horde!?
19:54.08LopeppeppyOnly if you like it that way.
19:54.22Dagmarolafski: It's an MMO.  Of course we share
19:55.01cogwheelWoW needs to support http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/  and have the keys show icons for whatever they're bound to (or letters if your key is in an EditBox)
19:55.22DagmarAlthough, it would be totally awesome if we could 5-man PUG a 10-man with one horde group and one alliance group
19:55.22Dagmar:)
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19:56.43olafskibah I don't want to go through the same tubes as stinking tauren :(
19:56.56olafskiyeah a lot of people have talked about that
19:57.08olafskiI think blizzard said on several occasions, that they wouldn't do it.. so it might happen soon
19:57.56ZorbaTHutthat really says everything you need to know about blizzard
19:58.16Thunder_Childcogwheel: and if they did would you spend 2K on a ketboard?
19:58.32ShadowedOptimus's software is pretty bad
19:58.52Shadowedmaybe it's better for the actual keyboard, but got the 3 key mini-version and the software for setting what keys showed was just terrible
19:58.53Thunder_Childid rather go lcars style with haptics
19:58.56cogwheelThunder_Child: mebbeh. at some point the cost has to come down...
19:59.16cogwheelThunder_Child: yeah, my next thought was to use a tablet pc connected by wifi or something
19:59.59olafskidid they actually make that optimus keyboard?
20:00.04olafskiI always thought it was a joke
20:00.04DagmarYou know what bothers me about touchscreens?
20:00.05olafskior hoax
20:00.06cogwheel><
20:00.08Thunder_Childyep
20:00.12DagmarHaving to wash my hands, constantly.
20:00.13Thunder_Childthat was the link cogwheel gave
20:00.15KarlKFIit's liek $1k
20:00.27olafskihm
20:00.31olafskishould be able to make that cheaper now?
20:00.39DagmarI'm sure there's people with enough money and too little sense who will pony up the cash for that
20:00.42cogwheelolafski: a lot of people thought it might be vaporware, but i never got the impression it was a hoax
20:00.48LunessaThey're still being made like art projects.
20:01.10olafskiwould be very cool to have
20:01.12cogwheelDagmar: as an italian, i concur
20:01.15olafskibut I'd much rather have something that types well :)
20:01.44KarlKFIeach button has an lcd and a microchip in it
20:01.53cogwheeloled
20:01.59Dagmars/LCD/OLED/;
20:02.07KarlKFIfine oled, even more expensive
20:02.15DagmarYes, this is why it's $1000
20:02.25KarlKFIthat site actually say $2k
20:02.26olafskiwell that gives me something to save up for
20:02.27ZorbaTHutyeah, LCDs would actually be more expensive in that situation, they don't emit light
20:02.38ZorbaTHutyou need a separate backlight and those add up fast
20:02.51DagmarOne SMT white LED would solve that problem
20:02.55KarlKFIhttp://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/9836/
20:03.00KarlKFI$1.6l
20:03.01KarlKFIk
20:03.03Lunessais restoring his iPhone to factory default. *sigh*
20:03.06*** join/#wowuidev mojosdojo_ (n=gdbzet26@p4FEFC0D4.dip.t-dialin.net)
20:03.10DagmarHowever, you would still have spent a crapton so that probably once a week your buttons could re-face themselves.
20:03.17cogwheel~comfort Lunessa
20:03.18purlThere, there, Lunessa.  It's OK.  I'm here for you.
20:03.28ZorbaTHutplus it's just not a very good keyboard, from what I hear
20:03.31ShirikLunessa: I have a better idea
20:03.33Shirikthrow it in the trash
20:03.59LunessaShirik: Blackberry can kiss my ass, and Verizon can suck shit through a tube.
20:04.03Shirik:(
20:04.06ShirikVerizon is win ok?
20:04.13LunessaNo it's not.
20:04.18ShirikAT&T's service is crap
20:04.18cogwheelit is, just not where you work...
20:04.25durcynthere ain't a single american wireless company that's worth a good god damn
20:04.29LunessaWhat part of NO SIGNAL where I live doesn't get through to you?
20:04.36ShirikSounds like AT&T to me
20:04.42DagmarThe part where you're still paying them money for it
20:04.43LunessaAT&T has signal
20:04.48DagmarYou're paying them, so you must be getting a signal
20:04.48Shirikno signal == AT&T to me :P
20:05.10NightHawkTheSaneare we really doing this again?
20:05.14LunessaBut I'm flashing my phone to help diagnose someone else's problem.
20:05.20Shiriklol why
20:05.23NightHawkTheSanejesus people, every cell carrier in the US is fucking terrible. get over it :P
20:05.27KarlKFIi'd rather have a http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/collectibles/9fc6/
20:05.34Dagmar"AT&T: We're giving you the world, one begrudging upsell at a time"
20:05.36durcynNightHawkTheSane speaks volumes of truth
20:05.38LunessaBecause I'm the "smartphone" testbed and troubleshooting guy.
20:05.54Shirikand they can't give you a phone to work with
20:05.58Shirikthey just expect you to use yours?
20:06.00DagmarNightHawkTheSane: The FCC extended that deadline for Verizon by the way
20:06.03DagmarFreaking cowards
20:06.03durcyn'testbed' sounds dirty.
20:06.15cogwheelDear youtube: if the embed size is less than the resolution of low quality, don't waste my bandwidth on high quality.
20:06.26DagmarI'm sure Verizon's people are just waiting for some hot story to come up in the news so they can hope to hide their response behind it
20:06.40NightHawkTheSaneDagmar: yeah, no shit. ><
20:06.50LunessaThey gave me the blackberry and the boss got the iPhone
20:06.54olafskiis there an easy way to create a "newline" in a config panel generated by AceConfigDialog?
20:07.05DagmarThey can't possibly come up with a reasonable answer as to why they're still charging people two bucks a K for off-plan data
20:07.08ScytheBlade1AT&T's VZW bashing commercials amuse me
20:07.14ScytheBlade1Mostly because half of what they say is flatly false
20:07.24Dagmar...and I'd so like to see the FCC haul them up and audit their books to find out how much money that's making them
20:07.49cogwheelAT&T Casts Defensive Stance
20:08.07DagmarAT&T is on the losing end of that media war
20:08.12LopeppeppyI'd love a working phone from before 2000... no matter whose it was.
20:08.19LunessaLunessa switches to Berserker Stance!  "How can this be?  Flesh is not ... stronger."
20:08.22olafskinm I haxed it with width='full' ;)
20:08.25DagmarFiling a suit because Verizon told things about their network they didn't want people to know was a mistake
20:08.35*** join/#wowuidev Ycarene (i=jporterf@24-116-56-41.cpe.cableone.net)
20:08.48cogwheelYeah, that was excruciatingly dumb
20:08.49*** join/#wowuidev Keias (n=bleh@pool-72-86-106-233.aubnin.fios.verizon.net)
20:08.49DagmarThey're going to wind up going before a judge and having to amit their network is crap because they have all but stopped spending money on upgrading it
20:08.55cogwheelI loved verizon's response
20:09.02Dagmars/amit/admin/;
20:09.04durcynspeaking of which
20:09.05ScytheBlade1"hahahahaha"?
20:09.06Dagmar@#$@!
20:09.10durcynOperation Chokehold is right about now, yes?
20:09.34Dagmardurcyn: I'll say the same thing three other people have said to me about it...
20:09.40Dagmar"How could you tell if it was working?"
20:10.18durcynyes, that's great, you've got snooty down to an art form
20:10.28durcynwas it today at noon pacific or not
20:10.35*** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net)
20:10.50Lunessahttp://eatingtheroad.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/what-should-i-drink-beer3.jpg
20:11.16LopeppeppyPretty!
20:11.19DagmarYes, it started 11 minutes ago
20:11.56LopeppeppyLunessa, I can drink Landshark!
20:12.05LopeppeppyI dont' know what it is, but I should drink it.
20:13.41mikmaesamynn|away: lol WORLD_MAP_UPDATE spam lol
20:14.12NightHawkTheSaneLunessa: nice.. "Do you know how to access the Stargate" hah :)
20:14.38PolarinaNightHawkTheSane: STARGATE! :D
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20:16.02alestane"Are you a Parrothead?"
20:16.13LunessaStargate: A movie I wanted to be much better than it was.  It was pretty cool, but I wanted OMFGSOAWESOME
20:16.33Lopeppeppydon't watch the new series, its pretty full of fail, except for the sergeant.
20:17.12olafskiyou guys have Amstel in the US?
20:17.22durcynnot in a good way, olafski
20:17.23NightHawkTheSanewe have lots of things in the US
20:17.28LunessaI wanted to like the new Stargate:Universe series but... it jumped the shark in episode 2
20:17.43olafskidurcyn: is there a good way? :s
20:17.46NightHawkTheSaneLunessa: yeah ><
20:17.57durcynolafski: i haven't seen anything but amstel light
20:18.01olafskiit's a dutch beer but I don't know anyone here who likes it
20:18.05NightHawkTheSaneSG:U is waaaaay too soapy
20:18.08durcynolafski: and any beer with 'light' in the name is automatically crap.
20:18.28DagmarIt needs more shootouts and more alien chicks
20:18.31LunessaBah - Euros buy Budwiser and crap too.  So don't get me started.
20:18.40NightHawkTheSaneDagmar: it needs more fucking stargate.
20:18.50PolarinaStargate Univere is awesome! Especially the last episode, that's where all the excitement begins. :)
20:18.55durcynNightHawkTheSane: I watched SGU after Defying Gravity.  by comparison it was downright _hectic_.
20:19.04Dagmarhehehe
20:19.21DagmarI still don't believe their cover story about funding issues
20:19.29DagmarI think they painted themselves into a total corner
20:19.40LunessaDefying Gravity could have been amazing.  I liked it enough to watch "pirate" episode recordings once ABC killed it in the US
20:20.09durcynLunessa: yeah, the story about first contact and the alien artifacts was actually interesting
20:20.16Dagmarhuh?  I thought they aired all the episodes that were made
20:20.21durcynLunessa: the bullshit "greys anatomy in space" was not.
20:20.32durcynDagmar: nope, there were 4 or 5 that never aired stateside.
20:20.35LunessaDagmar: Only 8 episodes in the US.  13 in Canada.
20:20.38DagmarAh
20:20.45DagmarI'll have to look into that then
20:22.04Fiskerslaps Lunessa around a bit with a large trout
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20:34.48LunessaAnd... problem I've been troubleshooting for the last 2 hours?  Mysteriously not a problem anymore.
20:35.16alestaneThat makes me want to throw things.
20:35.48NightHawkTheSaneLunessa: there is but one appropriate response.
20:35.50NightHawkTheSanemurder.
20:35.54VonhintenHOME`At least dragon's didn't fly out of your ass
20:35.56LopeppeppyOoooh, mysterious bugs suck!!
20:36.21LopeppeppyWhat I hate is when I spend tons of time fixing something someone requested, and then later they decide they dont' want it after all, thanks anyway.
20:36.27NightHawkTheSaneactually.. murder is a pretty appropriate response for MOST situations.
20:36.33LopeppeppyBastards need to drown in rotten jello.
20:36.37NightHawkTheSanebut anyway,off to lunch!
20:37.16olafskihm. can I find out whether an item in my bags is soulbound?
20:37.33olafskior bind on pickup works too I guess
20:38.41LunessaNHTS: I concur.
20:38.58kdtreshin arkinventory you can create a virtual "bag" that will hold all your soulbound items
20:39.15kdtreshand one for unbound
20:39.30olafskikdtresh: so it is possible.. guess I'll try to find out how they determine it :)
20:39.48kdtreshyes
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20:40.15Xinhuanu have to scan the tooltip for the item, lines 2 and 3
20:40.28Xinhuanline 4 as well, if color blind mode is enabled
20:40.43PolarinaWhat does the colour-blind mode do?
20:40.50Xinhuanadds an extra line to the tooltip
20:40.57Xinhuanline 2 will say what color the item is
20:41.01Xinhuani.e the rarity
20:41.24PolarinaI see.
20:41.50olafskixinhuan: could you tell me how to get this tooltip? :$
20:41.57Xinhuanso the worst case scenerio would be - line 1 item name, line 2 rarity, line 3 "conjured item", line 4 "binds on blah"
20:42.09Xinhuanyou make a tooltip object, and :SetHyperlink() the item
20:42.14Xinhuanthen start reading the tooltip line by line
20:42.14*** join/#wowuidev smcn (i=smcn@c-174-52-39-78.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
20:42.23Xinhuanby using GetText() on each line
20:42.33olafskihm. this sounds fun ;p
20:43.01Xinhuanthere's quite a number of issues with it
20:43.20Xinhuanthe least of which is disconenction from server if you query for an item the server has never seen ebfore beyond a certain limit/speed
20:43.33PolarinaOr localization!
20:43.45Xinhuanlocalization no longer an issue, the BOP string is in _G now
20:43.47kdtreshor you could dig into arkinventory and see how he did it
20:43.51olafskixinhuan: I'm checking items from the player's bags though so that shouldn't be an issue
20:43.51PolarinaJust damn parse the XML in the Armory and store it in a table!
20:43.59Xinhuanloads of addons scan tooltips
20:44.23Xinhuanincluding ratingbuster, bankitems, many bag addons, any type of gear scanning addon even
20:45.42Fiskerhttp://us.blizzard.com/support/index.xml?locale=en_US&gameId=13 <-giev me beta
20:45.51LopeppeppyNu.
20:45.58Fiskerja Lopeppeppy
20:45.58Fiskernu.
20:46.53LunessaFisker: No beta 4 j00!
20:47.01Fiskerbeta for m3
20:47.14olafskibleh this stuff is over my head
20:48.05*** join/#wowuidev brykrys (n=chatzill@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys)
20:48.09olafskihttp://wowprogramming.com/snippets/Scan_a_tooltip_15 ooh :)
20:48.10A-KOhttp://www.denverpost.com/ci_14022553 < what a great story
20:48.14PolarinaWhat is Windows 2.5.1?
20:49.24fathixZorbaTHut: hey i just got an error, want me to put it in the QH thread on SA, or something else?
20:50.38ZorbaTHutfathix, put it there, that way I won't lose it
20:50.46fathixk
20:50.52ZorbaTHutthanks :)
20:51.06fathixalso smack those guys talking about removing the reminder. what idiots.
20:51.31ZorbaTHuthaha, yeah, I don't mind too much because it doesn't hurt me at all if some people go and remove it
20:51.40ZorbaTHutit's just funny that they don't realize why it's there
20:52.24fathixposted
20:53.08olafskixinhuan: think I got it.. if I may ask, what is this _G you mean? I'm currently only developing my addon for english, but if I can easily make this multilang I might as well start now
20:53.18ZorbaTHutokay, I'm gonna take a look at it tomorrow unless it happens often, then
20:53.24Xinhuan_G is the table containing all global variables
20:53.33olafskican I find a reference of it somewhere?
20:53.36ZorbaTHutright now I'm sleepy and my mom's gonna visit soon ;) but that looks like a new one
20:53.38olafskiI could just dump it ingame but I guess it'll be big
20:53.41Xinhuanyour print() function, for example, is _G.print or _G["print"]
20:53.43fathixnah, first time i've ever actually gotten an error using qh. used it for a damn long time.
20:53.47Xinhuanor just "print"
20:53.56ZorbaTHutexcellent :)
20:54.00fathixthis is what i get for working on loremaster.
20:54.00Xinhuan_G._G of course refers to _G
20:54.16fathixanyway, thanks.
20:54.24Xinhuanits sometimes useful to use _G if you have a local variable shadowing a global, or you need to use a string to access a global
20:54.27ZorbaTHuthey, that's what I'm doing right now too :D
20:54.35LopeppeppySheeple am hurt my head.
20:54.44fathixheh it's because of qh that i started on it... doing it on a dk /wrists
20:54.46cogwheelanyone want to sponsor me for foreign citizenship? http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/12/religious-right-members-of-congress-pray-for-god-to-stop-the-health-care-bill.php
20:55.19durcyncanada's not that far, cogwheel, let's go together.
20:55.26Xinhuanso olafski, you should take a look at Blizzard's GlobalStrings.lua
20:55.35ZorbaTHutfathix, eh, not too bad, you've at least got ranged attacks. I mean it'll be timeconsuming but not that annoying
20:55.51Xinhuanit defines about 2000+ constants
20:55.53olafskiah that's the keyword I was looking for I think xinhuan :)
20:56.15olafskiwas it jnwhiteh who does wowprogramming.com?
20:56.21Xinhuanyes it is
20:56.32Xinhuanbut it never hurts to have a copy of blizzard's UI extracted out
20:56.41olafskiyeah I was just going to do a quick suggestion ;)
20:56.48fathixZorbaTHut: true, the worst part is having to look something up on wowhead because i can't quite find something with the in game stuff.
20:57.26durcynolafski: git://github.com/tekkub/wow-ui-source  < would be a good place to find it, imo
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21:03.39bleeteridly wonders what's so hard for blizz to not be able to do a proper multi-platform mobile armory
21:03.52bleeterLopeppeppy: I NEVER TOUCHED YOUR HEAD! :(
21:04.31LopeppeppyYou whuzhuh?
21:04.41LopeppeppyDid I say you had?
21:05.13bleeter07:54 <+Lopeppeppy> Sheeple am hurt my head.
21:05.18Lopeppeppy:P
21:05.22bleeter:P
21:06.12DagmarWrite one and find out yourself
21:06.16Lunessacogwheel: Renouncing US citizenship is easy.  Getting citizenship somewhere else is generally not.
21:07.19bleeterirish was fairly easy, dunno if still is. just needed grand (or great grand) parent being irish
21:09.28*** join/#wowuidev Ycarene (i=jporterf@24-116-56-41.cpe.cableone.net)
21:09.47Lunessacogwheel: convert to Judaism and emigrate to Israel?  :P
21:10.05cogwheel><
21:10.26cogwheelsort of defeats the purpose :P
21:11.26cogwheelAU seems to have pretty flexible immigration laws as long as you're employable
21:11.26*** join/#wowuidev Schnaks_ (n=Schnaks@p5486C671.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:15.30zenzelezzyou're a westerner; move to Norway, live and work here for... five years? Welcome, citizen
21:15.56zenzelezzthen you'll finally know what it's like to live in the actual best country ;-p
21:15.59cogwheeli'm sure my wife would love the lack of sunlight ;)
21:16.13zenzelezzwe have plenty of sunlight unless you live in the far north
21:18.41zenzelezzI'm intrigued that the "Dirge's Kickin' Chimaerok Chops" recipe is now more expensive than I ever saw it on the AH
21:18.41NightHawkTheSanei'm sure the far north has plenty of sunlight two
21:18.43NightHawkTheSanetoo*
21:18.49NightHawkTheSaneit's just all clumped up into one half of the year?
21:19.04zenzelezzsomething like that
21:19.13zenzelezznot quite so black and white, but essentially
21:20.06NightHawkTheSaneYOU'RE not quite so black and white!
21:20.19zenzelezzno, I'm pretty pale
21:25.54foxlitApparently a consequence of living far north and not eating enough cerial.
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21:26.29foxlitThanks, internet!
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21:28.14cogwheelfoxlit: no it's because they DID eat cereal
21:28.21cogwheeland weren't getting enough vitamin D
21:29.05foxlitDoesn't cereal contain vitamin d?
21:29.08cogwheelhttp://knol.google.com/k/frank-w-sweet/why-are-europeans-white-e1/k16kl3c2f2au/14#
21:29.32cogwheelThis USDA chart shows the vitamin D content of various foods. All meats have some vitamin D. Fish have very high amounts. But grains have no vitamin D at all.
21:30.07foxlitThat's clearly what I get from skimming through the headers.
21:30.30foxlitThough I'm sure the stuff labelled cereal today contains vitamin D.
21:30.39alestaneI was always under the impression that Europeans were pale because much of Europe is frequently cloudy or foggy, so they need the paler skin to absorb more sunlight for synthesis.
21:30.47cogwheelalestane: yeah
21:31.17cogwheelbut diet also played a part because when you're not getting enough D from your food you need to get more from the sun
21:31.41NightHawkTheSanecogwheel: interesting.
21:31.56cogwheelskin darkness is strongly associated with latitude, but there's an odd break in the pattern around teh baltic sea which that article discusses
21:32.37Shiriko.o;
21:32.42ShirikI'm supposed to get 10-20 inches of snow tonight
21:33.19foxlitwtf, -10 - 0 temperatures over the next 4 days. Evil!
21:33.32LunessaShirik: VA?
21:33.37Shirikaffirmative
21:33.51LunessaBundle up boy-o.
21:34.14ShirikI'm busy coding genetic algorithms
21:34.18Shirikno need to bundle up
21:34.22Shirikit's gonna get hot and spicy in here
21:34.36cogwheelNow THAT'S cybersex
21:34.43Shirik:P
21:34.48foxlitCNN: "What does America want for Xmas?" subtitle under an image of Sarah Palin.
21:35.24NightHawkTheSaneif the answer is "her to go away", then i guess thats appropriate
21:35.30cogwheeli know a few americans who should get this book for christmas: http://bit.ly/8vwK4I
21:35.45foxlithates scridb.
21:36.09foxlitThey occasionally appear in google search results, and their UI bloody sucks.
21:36.26cogwheel*shrugs* would you like an amazon link instead?
21:36.31cogwheel(:P
21:36.37cogwheels/(//
21:36.58cogwheel(the name/description of the book is all that counts and i got that link from someone else)
21:37.05foxlitNah, It's a passing remark. As long as I'm only expected to look at the cover, I can leave with it :)
21:37.11cogwheel:)
21:37.20foxlits/leave/live
21:38.48Shiriksounds like a book for me cogwheel!
21:43.15A-KOhttp://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220090309891%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20090309891&RS=DN/20090309891 < goodbye WoW population if they did this :P
21:43.16*** join/#wowuidev Ruck (n=bleh@pool-72-86-106-233.aubnin.fios.verizon.net)
21:43.18PolarinaIs there some guide on how to level alchemy quickly?
21:43.29Lunessa... Intelligence for Dummies.  Now there's a contradictory statement.
21:43.49*** join/#wowuidev chancegarcia (n=chance@syn.smithville.net)
21:44.00chancegarciaanyone use icehud?
21:44.08LunessaPolarina: Step 1: Gather herbs until your goddamned bank is full.  2. Make lots of goddamned potions.  3. Lather. 4. Rinse. 5. Repeat
21:44.11ShirikA-KO.... what?
21:44.15ShirikWhy would anyone use that
21:44.31PolarinaI found it! /me loves the european forums.
21:44.36Polarinahttp://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=13121383&sid=1
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21:52.36LunessaHas this been granted?
21:53.07PolarinaGranted?
21:55.39LunessaA-KO's linked patent.
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22:02.29airtonixA-KO, rationalise how you believe that patent would be the end of wow (since all male night elves look *exactly* the same)
22:03.21NightHawkTheSaneam i reading that wrong, or is that trying to patent any process of creating a virtual representation of a living being?
22:03.22airtonixA-KO, i remember all four hundred of the questionaires and authority release statements i had to sign off on in order for blizzard to tailor my avatar(s) to my appearance ...oh wait
22:04.22airtonixNightHawkTheSane, yes. you are reading it right
22:04.37kdtresh"to encourage exercise"
22:04.51airtonixbest get back to reading books and creating patents out of the ideas contained therein
22:05.14kdtreshbecause actually BEING healthier isn't nearly as much much motivation as having your avatar LOOK healthier
22:05.35airtonixapplication for patent : device to raise a sword out of water on the hand of a female.
22:05.55kdtreshwith or with samite?
22:06.11airtonixthat'll be a separate patent
22:06.19kdtreshyes, one with, the other without
22:06.37kdtreshwith an appendix for shimmering on the one with
22:07.01kdtreshbecause the patent system is awesome
22:08.49LunessaNew weapon:  Don't laugh at the crappy gem. http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kirin+Tor&n=Wyldsong
22:08.51NightHawkTheSaneYOU'RE awesome.
22:09.13NightHawkTheSaneLunessa: nice :)
22:09.23NightHawkTheSaneLunessa: although, i have to say, i see that fucking polearm drop ALL THE GODDAMN TIME
22:09.28kdtreshthat dropped last time i healed HoR
22:09.30NightHawkTheSanethat douche never drops my Ephemeral Snowflake :(
22:09.32kdtreshdk tank got it
22:09.48LunessaNightHawkTheSane: Tanked that instance last night (3am) for the first time.  SO. FUCKING. HARD.
22:10.00kdtreshi haven't had one piece of healing plate drop in any of the new 5-mans
22:10.09NightHawkTheSaneLunessa: it's a rough heroic. Relatively speaking, it's arguably one of the toughest ever.
22:10.28kdtreshLunessa: did you have a pally healer?
22:10.34LunessaAll the ICC instances on heroic make me feel like I'm a failtank
22:10.42Lunessakdtresh: I did.
22:10.55olafskithere are some pretty annoying situations in those new instances
22:10.55NightHawkTheSaneI've done it with groups of fairly well geared guildies, and still wiped, because some mob got loose and two shot me (druid healer)
22:11.02kdtreshdid he LoS pull everything?
22:11.04olafskiwe just wiped like 5 times on the second boss in HoR
22:11.06ShirikAny gcc gurus here? Does gcc automatically split the load of a long for loop across multiple processors, or do I have to explicitly do a #pragma omp parallel for
22:11.17LunessaHe said "Jainia soloed the lich king to 75%. Fucking Pro"
22:11.34olafskiI said that too :o
22:11.34kdtreshthe only way i've actually won that fight at the altar was by putting righteous fury on and hiding around the corner
22:11.38NightHawkTheSaneolafski: the 2nd boss is easy if you get to him, the first boss fucking sucks.
22:12.34olafskinighthawkthesane: yeah
22:12.35olafskiit was the waves before the boss
22:12.35Lunessakdtresh: I was the tank.  As a bear.
22:12.35NightHawkTheSaneyeah, those waves get rough.
22:12.35kdtreshyes, i was the healer
22:12.35olafskiour paladin tank had huge trouble getting all of them on him
22:12.35NightHawkTheSane2x mages or 2x mercenaries seriously suck
22:12.35Lunessakdtresh: No, you were?
22:12.35kdtreshyes
22:12.35LunessaHAHA. You passed to me.  Pro.  Thanks.
22:13.07kdtreshlike i said, the only way i've won that fight is to heal with righteous fury on, hiding in the corner
22:13.17NightHawkTheSaneLunessa: and yeah, all three ICC-5s have rough spots to tank.
22:13.26NightHawkTheSanealthough forge of souls isn't too bad
22:13.26LunessaThose pulls were KILLER
22:13.29kdtreshand have the tank pick everything up before it rounded the corner and ate me
22:13.31olafskihow about those 2 packs after Krick
22:13.36olafskithey hurt like a mofo
22:14.02NightHawkTheSanethey can, yeah
22:14.05olafskikdtresh: that's a pretty cool idea
22:14.15LunessaI was afraid we were going to wipe again at the last wall.  The Lich King was right on my ass.
22:14.22zenzelezzI wish I got more good HoR groups
22:14.30NightHawkTheSanekdtresh: the way we typically handle the waves is to have the dps burn down the ranged on their own, and the tank picks up mercs/priests/footmen
22:14.32olafskiI finished HoR heroic the first time I did it, without any trouble on the LK
22:14.49olafskitanking the wave stuff was a lot easier for a DK it seems
22:14.59DewinI couldn't finish HoR heroic the first time I did it, because it was on patch day and the instance server kept crashing around wave 4.
22:15.32NightHawkTheSaneeh, pally tanks are kinda hax for most of the icc stuff. 2 ranged taunts and holy wrath is sexxy
22:15.45olafskiholy wrath rocks
22:15.54olafskibut don't all tank classes have 2 ranged taunts?
22:16.01zenzelezzno
22:16.07DewinBears only get one, Faerie Fire isn't a taunt.
22:16.08LunessaYeah, the priest/mages on the first bits were a pain in my buttocks.
22:16.14DewinBut it's close enough to being one if you're smart with it
22:16.14zenzelezzwell, depends on what you consider "ranged"
22:16.27DewinAs a bear, I hate the packs that are all casters that are spread out enough where I can't get them all together
22:16.31olafskizenzelezz: taunt / heroic throw, taunt / death grip, taunt / that shield thing paladins do
22:16.35olafskidunno about bears
22:16.41zenzelezzolafski: Heroic Throw is not a taunt
22:16.42NightHawkTheSaneolafski: heroic through isn't a taunt
22:16.46olafskiclose enough
22:16.49NightHawkTheSaneavenger's shield is not a taunt
22:16.50zenzelezznot at all
22:16.51NightHawkTheSaneno, it's not.
22:16.52olafskihigh threat gets them to you
22:16.58zenzelezzyou assume no-one has hit the mob
22:16.59LunessaGrowl, Feral Charge Bear, Swipe/Maul, etc.
22:17.07olafskiindeed. what's the paladin's second taunt? :$
22:17.10olafskioh.. nm
22:17.18olafskiI never use that ability :(
22:17.22NightHawkTheSaneI use both, a lot.
22:17.31DewinWhat I found myself doing as bear on the spread-out caster packs is rounding up 3 of the 5, spamming swipe, taunting one of the other 2 to pull it off of whoever grabbed it and faerie firing the other one to keep it on me.
22:17.52DewinThis was in a group that managed to have no interrupts
22:18.02NightHawkTheSanebut yeah, heroic throw, avenger's shield, faeri fire, all those don't do jack shit if the healer has built up a sizeable healing threat lead, or hte dps has been smacking it around for a while
22:18.47NightHawkTheSanebeing able to rotate taunts to keep a ranged mob on me through full dps without using any other ability is a little absurd
22:26.22foxlitJust, um, have your DPS kill a ranged mob first.
22:27.05foxlitShould be able to basically ignore one of them for tanking purposes.
22:28.29NightHawkTheSanefoxlit: er, thats what i mean. they do, and i can still just rotate taunts and "tank" it.
22:29.05foxlitWell, if you have nothing better to taunt... :)
22:29.42Dewinof course, DKs don't have this problem as bad since they can just death grip and/or silence
22:29.45NightHawkTheSanenot usually. :P
22:30.18NightHawkTheSaneDewin: kind of, but both abilities are on a longer CD
22:30.30NightHawkTheSanesilence is what, 2m? not exactly an every-wave kind of ability
22:31.09DewinYeah, true.
22:32.03DewinMy last group had a hunter, a retadin, a boomkin and a priest healer, so most of them were able to spam enough CC where I could focus on just tanking one or two and just make sure none of the others were causing trouble
22:32.35Lunessasuddenly wants cross-server friends lists.
22:32.48DewinLunessa: It's coming soonish
22:32.54*** join/#wowuidev sylvaan (n=sylvanaa@unaffiliated/sylvanaar)
22:33.10LunessaI know.  Battle.net rollout.  Saw the panel at BLizzCon
22:33.10olafskiyeah :)
22:33.27DewinI wonder if you'll be able to friend horde as alliance
22:33.30LunessaActually - Cross-Game Friends list too.
22:33.44DewinI want to be able to friend the player, not the character
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22:33.56Lunessa*nod*
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22:36.26LunessaCairenn: Bringing the Netsplits
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22:36.34ScytheBlade1Shirik: you should switch to fedora... they have a lua interface to rpm!
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22:38.30NightHawkTheSanecupcake iphone! http://www.flickr.com/photos/nickbilton/2861106523/sizes/l/
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22:46.43alestaneI am discovering a bit of an issue as a pally tank if the game pairs me up with a disc priest as healer.
22:47.20zenzelezz_oh?
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22:49.15alestaneThey keep spamming Power Word: Shield on me instead of healing me. Spiritual Attunement has nothing to wokr with and my mana dires up.
22:49.17alestanedries*
22:49.44foxlitI hear forums suggest you use divine plea.
22:50.00*** join/#wowuidev A-KO (i=as@c-69-143-90-155.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
22:50.02foxlitThough I don't suppose that actually measures up.
22:50.03NightHawkTheSaneits not always up
22:50.07alestaneI frequently find myself doing this whe I realize I have nothing else left to work with, yes.
22:50.23NightHawkTheSaneeh, when it's up, it's usually enough for me, combined with sanc & jow
22:50.27alestaneAnd yes, it doesn't have the output that a steady stream of healing provides.
22:51.02NightHawkTheSane(aside: with the glyph of divine plea, keeping it up as much as possible is in your best interest anyway)
22:51.17alestaneHaven't lloked at that one yet.
22:51.35NightHawkTheSane3% less damage taken while divine plea is active
22:51.35alestaneI have consecrate, righteous defense and judgement right now.
22:51.57alestaneThat makes a certain amount of sense, yes.
22:52.01NightHawkTheSaneI'd honestly drop consecraete
22:52.16NightHawkTheSanethe extra 2s cd makes it less versitile :\
22:53.10alestaneWell, under the assumption that you're keeping it up constantly, the 2s means fewer GCDs and less mana devoted to keeping it up. If you're using it as a spot AoE, then you would prefer not to glyph it, yes.
22:53.15NightHawkTheSanealso, you might consider the glyph of seal of vengeance, 10 expertise (not rating) with SoV up is epic
22:54.08NightHawkTheSanealestane: well, i see it from two angles: for raid tanking, the 8s cd fits better into a rotation, and for heroics, I prefer being able to put down a new consecrate in a different place as often as possible (or the potential to be able to do so)
22:54.44alestaneI would be happier with the shorter cooldown do Anub'Arak in H AzN, because of all the adds.
22:54.57alestaneAnd I'm doing that one daily trying to get the damn trinket.
22:55.05NightHawkTheSanehehe, that trinket is hot :)
22:55.17alestaneAnd it WILL NOT DROP for me.
22:55.21alestane</rage>
22:55.32NightHawkTheSanebut yeah, a lot of times i'll drop consecrate in one area to build up threat on some mobs, then move somewhere else to build up threat on something else and being able to re-drop consecreate as soon as possible is nice
22:55.53A-KOsigh what an annoying problem :/
22:55.59NightHawkTheSaneyeah, i've never gotten the trinket on my druid. when it drops, i'm always not tanking
22:56.03A-KOMy WoW freezes randomly, and sometimes the audio/music skips
22:56.08A-KOcan't figure out what's causing it thoguh
22:56.13foxlit"Reduces spell damage taken by 6% and gives a 100% chance to refresh the duration of your Divine Plea when you hit an enemy."
22:56.18Lunessaalestane: Essence of Gossamer?
22:56.25alestaneLunessa: Yes, that one.
22:56.28foxlitMy unfamiliarity with prot talents is astounding.
22:56.43Lunessaalestane: It is so sex.
22:57.01alestaneIt would be rather preferable to the Sonic Booster (or Noise Machine, whichever one does the shield) that I'm using now.
22:57.12alestaneMy DK has the damn thing, but it will not drop for my pally.
22:57.17Lunessa+111 Stamina bitches
22:57.42alestaneWould be rather better than the 23 spell power or however much the one I'm using gives, yes.
23:03.44Polarina79 XP more to ding 40! :D
23:04.49PolarinaSorry, 81 XP. :(
23:07.06*** join/#wowuidev Polarina (n=polarina@wesnoth/translator/Polarina) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
23:07.30foxlitHm, there is no easy way to get the localized class plural form?
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23:10.31NightHawkTheSanesighs
23:11.22DWSRShould I break up with my gf now or after christmas?
23:11.45*** join/#wowuidev Polarina (n=polarina@wesnoth/translator/Polarina) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
23:12.21NightHawkTheSaneDWSR: split the middle, christmas day.
23:13.31*** join/#wowuidev Polarina (n=polarina@wesnoth/translator/Polarina) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
23:14.51alestanefoxlit: Not that I can infer from GlobalStrings.lua.
23:15.20*** join/#wowuidev Polarina (n=polarina@wesnoth/translator/Polarina) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
23:15.26foxlitCan I phrase "Only show this to (Class)s" in some way that doesn't require a plural?
23:15.35alestane~staple Polarina
23:15.36purlACTION attaches a staple gun to a pneumatic nail gun via duct tape, staples Polarina quite well, and hands Polarina to alestane
23:15.50kdtreshpeople of the <class> persuasion?
23:16.16kdtreshthough i suppose people is techincally plural
23:16.19DWSRfoxlit: Is this in a wow context?
23:16.24foxlitDWSR: yes.
23:16.33DWSRkdtresh: That sentence doesn't make sense.
23:16.37DWSRfoxlit: All classes require an s at the end.
23:16.44kdtreshonly show this to people of the paladin persuasion?
23:16.54DWSRkdtresh: Doesn't make sense.
23:16.55foxlitDWSR: cute, but I'm in trouble with localization then.
23:17.49DWSRfoxlit: why?
23:18.11NightHawkTheSanefoxlit: can you give more context?
23:18.19DWSR^^
23:18.19DWSRanyway bbl
23:18.39foxlitNightHawkTheSane: it's essentially a checkbox/dropdown that controls the visibility of something.
23:18.59NightHawkTheSanefoxlit: well, i mean, can you generisize it so its "Only show to your class" or similar?
23:19.07NightHawkTheSanegenericize? *shrug*
23:19.08foxlitYes, you could.
23:19.38NightHawkTheSaneOr if you wnated a drop-down class selection, something like "Only show to this class: <dropdown>"
23:19.51foxlitNah, it's always your class.
23:20.00foxlitThe choices are "only to me", "only to my class", "to everyone"
23:20.10NightHawkTheSane^^ there's your verbiage.
23:20.24NightHawkTheSane"Show this: [Only to me|only to my class|to everyone]"
23:20.33foxlitI think "my class" sounds awkward, but meh.
23:20.55alestane"Only useful to a <class>"
23:21.05NightHawkTheSanea bit, but i can't think of another way that doesn't involve pluralizing the class
23:21.15smcnwell that was unusual
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23:21.24smcna wow crash without the reporting tool coming up
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23:21.41foxlitI've got a tga image that crashes wow.
23:21.44foxlitGiggles, that.
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23:22.19NightHawkTheSanesmcn: i've been getting those a bit lately. ><
23:24.23kdtreshi'm still getting the hang on realm change
23:24.33kdtreshit started when i converted to bnet
23:24.51NightHawkTheSanegoes home
23:24.59kdtreshwaves.
23:25.21cogwheelhttp://tinyurl.com/y8a8odz
23:26.29kdtreshat least there's a number 4 there, lol
23:29.26bluspacecow\o cog
23:29.35cogwheelo/
23:29.54alestaneo/\o ?
23:30.04bluspacecowdamn mpq extractor ... laggin g my 4 y/o computer out :(
23:30.08alestaneNo, now it looks like a nose.
23:30.17bluspacecownah
23:30.20bluspacecowa high five
23:30.29bluspacecowits a bro shake
23:30.29cogwheeldepends on the font imo
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23:49.00foxlitThere should so be a way to force-hide other players in your screenshots.
23:49.38zenzelezz_"you soloed Lich King?"
23:49.51ZynConfig.wtf > SET "hideInferiorLifeforms" "1"
23:49.53Zyndone
23:49.54Zyn¯\(°_o)/¯
23:50.04DagmarI dunno about soloing, but we've sure as hell been trying to take him down at the end of HoR just to see if we cna do it
23:50.17DagmarHe takes damage before those rocks fall on him
23:50.34foxlitHe takes damage throughout the entire run
23:51.05foxlitIf you can do 20m in the few minutes that you have to kite him, you win. Or something.
23:51.36zenzelezzhe'd probably soft-enrage at 30%
23:52.19Gnarfozdespawns and says it's not his time yet
23:52.30zenzelezzlol
23:52.59Gnarfozgood times
23:53.12zenzelezzwhat was that originally again?
23:53.36Dagmarfoxlit: Judging from the close calls we've had, I think you get about seven minutes, maybe 7:30 but I doubt it
23:54.02DagmarSomehow I think you won't even get that long if you have to DPS down the undead AND wail on LK
23:55.13foxlithttp://go-hero.net/box/cats.jpg
23:55.38kdtreshdoes he say "i'll get you next time, gadget... next time!" ?
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