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| 00:26.02 | cog|work | 6 achievements and four titles all from turning in a single level 39 quest >< |
| 00:26.09 | theorbtwo | Wow. |
| 00:26.38 | cog|work | Exalted champion of ironforge, 10 exalted reputations, ambassador of the alliance, exalted champion of the exodar, exalted argent champion of the alliance, and exalted champion of the alliance. |
| 00:27.11 | Antiarc | Hahaha |
| 00:27.13 | theorbtwo | Cool! |
| 00:27.25 | Antiarc | We had a druid get a crapload of achievements on our Yogg kill |
| 00:28.10 | Antiarc | http://i.imgur.com/DRWbr.png |
| 00:28.32 | cog|work | hehe |
| 00:30.51 | cog|away | time for home |
| 00:32.25 | Hirsute | That is a lot of achievements |
| 00:33.57 | foxlit | So, to buy an authenticator, or not to buy an authenticator? |
| 00:34.28 | kdtresh | i've had one for a while |
| 00:34.51 | kdtresh | had a couple guildies get hacked, i didn't want to risk it and have some goldseller disband my guild |
| 00:34.54 | cbreak | if you have a mobilephone |
| 00:34.59 | cbreak | that might be an alternative method |
| 00:35.57 | foxlit | They axed shipping costs, so getting the physical one isn't actually all that bad. |
| 00:36.15 | foxlit | The prospect of having to type in a numeric code every log in annows me, however. |
| 00:36.16 | cbreak | they take up physical space |
| 00:37.21 | foxlit | True, but I probably don't want to drag out the iphone every time, and it probably has a higher life expectancy anyway. |
| 00:37.54 | Antiarc | So, I modified RankWatch so that it announces misranked spells in party |
| 00:37.59 | Antiarc | Since cross-realm parties can't have whispers |
| 00:38.04 | Antiarc | It's so assholish but so great |
| 00:38.18 | cbreak | misranked spells? |
| 00:38.21 | foxlit | Is it really an issue? |
| 00:38.26 | Antiarc | If you don't cast a max-rank spell it yells at you |
| 00:38.27 | Antiarc | Yes |
| 00:38.38 | foxlit | Color me surprised. |
| 00:38.42 | Antiarc | sec |
| 00:38.44 | Antiarc | In fight |
| 00:38.46 | cbreak | is there anyone dumb enough not to use max ranks of anything besides maybe frostbolt? |
| 00:38.53 | Antiarc | When you train a spell |
| 00:38.57 | Antiarc | It doesn't update your second spec's bars |
| 00:39.24 | Antiarc | In this PUG run so far I've caught 9 misranked spells |
| 00:39.31 | foxlit | 3.4 will deprecate you :) |
| 00:39.48 | foxlit | But interesting nonetheless |
| 00:39.56 | cbreak | I never noticed that |
| 00:40.03 | cbreak | I was max level before 3.1... |
| 00:40.12 | cbreak | and my alts never get to leave their capital |
| 00:40.50 | foxlit | "Heâll talk about whatever you want, as long as you want to talk about "Rwlrwlrwlrwl!"" |
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| 00:44.38 | theorbtwo | BTW, there's sometimes reasons to use spells below your max level -- they use less mana, and might do the job that needed doing. |
| 00:44.52 | eidolarr | I think they nerfed that |
| 00:44.55 | eidolarr | all the same mana cost now |
| 00:45.59 | theorbtwo | OK. There goes that niggle. |
| 00:46.08 | Hirsute | theorbtwo: They changed that a *long* time ago. |
| 00:46.23 | eidolarr | the only legit reason i can think of is casting on a lower level friend who can't accept the stronger buffs |
| 00:50.12 | *** join/#wowuidev AbsolutRayne_ (n=chatzill@74.127.239.29) |
| 00:50.41 | cbreak | frost bolt level 1 |
| 00:50.44 | cbreak | is very very short cast |
| 00:50.51 | cbreak | and it can proc frostbite/slow like normal |
| 00:50.56 | cbreak | so I guess it is of use in pvp |
| 00:51.20 | eidolarr | that's much less compellingthesedays w/ the mana cost |
| 00:51.22 | eidolarr | havent seen it |
| 00:52.06 | eidolarr | - |
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| 00:57.02 | Mikk | 3.3 changes the mana cost of the really low level stuff actually |
| 00:57.06 | Mikk | relative to casting time |
| 00:57.10 | Mikk | so FB lvl1 is actually cheaper again |
| 00:57.18 | Mikk | though still not nearly as cheap as it used to be |
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| 01:06.15 | Kraps | http://www.wired.com/geekdad/2009/07/100-things-your-kids-may-never-know-about/ |
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| 01:15.04 | Kraps | 43. Actually being able to get a domain name consisting of real words. |
| 01:15.19 | AbsolutRayne | Ruh roh, Iron Man 2 Trailer is out! |
| 01:15.35 | cbreak | hasn't seen Iron Man 1 so far |
| 01:15.46 | theorbtwo | loved 1. |
| 01:16.25 | Kraps | robert downey is great |
| 01:16.39 | cbreak | 24. # Terminals accessing the mainframe... |
| 01:16.47 | cbreak | isn't that what we do all the time these days? |
| 01:16.53 | cbreak | with WoW, with the web browsser in forums |
| 01:17.02 | cbreak | with countless other things |
| 01:17.09 | Dagmar | ...and this is why people like you don't know. |
| 01:17.50 | cbreak | just a different client |
| 01:17.58 | Dagmar | nope |
| 01:18.17 | Kraps | 93 Looking out the window during a long drive. |
| 01:18.32 | cbreak | 's old company rolled out thin clients who's only purpose was to connect to an RDP server |
| 01:18.34 | theorbtwo | Dagmar: What's the difference, for those of us who don't remember? |
| 01:19.40 | Dagmar | Mainframe terminals couldn't talk to anything else. They weren't connected over ethernet. They weren't wireless. They were generally hard-wired straight to the mainframe and they were serial. |
| 01:20.07 | Dagmar | AND if you were so unfortunate as to have yours unplugged when the mainframe was restarted, you were probably S.O.L. for using it until the next restart |
| 01:20.11 | cbreak | different implementation, same idea |
| 01:20.16 | Dagmar | No. |
| 01:20.22 | Dagmar | Not by a long shot. |
| 01:20.30 | Dagmar | That's like saying roller skates are the same thing as driving a car. |
| 01:20.37 | cbreak | it is! |
| 01:20.45 | cbreak | just a different implementation |
| 01:20.45 | Dagmar | *snicker* |
| 01:21.19 | cbreak | I like the implementation that comes with a driver. |
| 01:24.11 | Jerub | i knew a compnay that moved entirely to the rdp/thinclient solution on the basis that it made it support trivial |
| 01:24.26 | Jerub | and then had at least 2 people per rdp server keeping the entire system from falling over. |
| 01:25.26 | Kraps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mFJdOsjJ0k&feature=sub |
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| 01:42.40 | sylvanaar | argh! |
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| 01:44.24 | Mikk | huaaa synchronous terminals |
| 01:44.26 | Mikk | shudders |
| 01:44.42 | Mikk | i still laugh when i remember me carrying the last out to the loading dock to wait for a container to toss it in |
| 01:44.45 | Mikk | then they got stolen |
| 01:44.49 | Adys | TypeError: cannot convert dictionary update sequence element #0 to a sequence |
| 01:44.52 | Adys | wth is that |
| 01:44.58 | Mikk | i laughed all the way back to the phone where i cancelled the container |
| 01:48.30 | Cralor` | is there a pre-defined function for "raid warning" type messages. I thought there might have been |
| 01:48.55 | Cralor` | (not the actual function for RW, but an addon print method) |
| 01:48.58 | cbreak | like SendChatMessage? |
| 01:49.22 | cbreak | you could check the wow lua sources for the event handler |
| 01:49.25 | cbreak | how it does it |
| 01:49.34 | Cralor` | no because I don't want to have to be raid leader. i'm just looking for another way that stands out than "print" |
| 01:49.54 | Cralor` | or if i have to make a fontstring for that |
| 01:49.55 | cbreak | that's what I mean |
| 01:50.05 | cbreak | you can just look how the API does it |
| 01:50.09 | cbreak | and then tell it the same way |
| 01:50.10 | Cralor` | oh |
| 01:50.15 | Cralor` | like how it prints the RW |
| 01:50.53 | Mikk | Cralor`: Check out docs for ChatFrame:AddMessage() |
| 01:50.56 | A-KO | can you still spell steal the empowered buff for the guys in deathwhisper? |
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| 01:50.57 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 01:50.59 | Mikk | you can set whatever color you want |
| 01:51.12 | Mikk | or just print() with color control codes |
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| 02:01.43 | Shadowed | Isn't there a way to figure out where an object thats being animated is on the screen? |
| 02:02.31 | alestane | Well, the offset from the anchor vertices to the animated vertices is done inside the C++ layer. |
| 02:03.10 | Shadowed | I could swear the object would have some sort of API return it's "actual" location? |
| 02:03.52 | Shadowed | But maybe I'm imaginging that and just will have to use the offsets and a percentage |
| 02:04.00 | alestane | But you can iterate over a region's animation groups, examine the progress of its various animations, and multiply the animation offsets and target changes by the progress rate. |
| 02:04.17 | Shadowed | Collision is definitely not the most fun thing to do with the animation system :< |
| 02:04.20 | alestane | Accounting for animations on any parent regions may be harder. |
| 02:04.29 | alestane | .... |
| 02:04.42 | alestane | ..do I want to know what you're trying to do? |
| 02:04.53 | Shadowed | It's just for a silly snowflake addon, so the flakes collide with UI objects and stop |
| 02:04.58 | Shadowed | nothing horribly obscure or whacky |
| 02:06.31 | WobWork | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzxTk3Soz4c |
| 02:06.35 | alestane | What you're probably going to want to do is calculate the collision when you create the snowflake, then animate it over that distance. |
| 02:07.03 | WobWork | alestane: unless a UI frame moves in that period =( |
| 02:07.11 | Shadowed | Yea that's what I was going to do, but figuring out the collision when you have things stacked on each other becomes a pain |
| 02:07.40 | WobWork | hehe you could totally abuse IsMouseOver =) |
| 02:07.47 | Shadowed | Hrm? |
| 02:07.48 | WobWork | if you could move it =P |
| 02:07.52 | Shadowed | :p |
| 02:08.24 | WobWork | hehe, every 3 seconds, the cursor goes schitzoid as you figure out the coordinates of every top edge of visible frames =) |
| 02:09.51 | Kraps | http://jezebel.com/5428092/virtualreality-violent-videogames-and-issues-of-art |
| 02:13.04 | Shadowed | There's actually a really whacky way I could do it, but it'd be ungoldy uninefficient |
| 02:13.15 | Shadowed | s/ungoldy/ungodly/ |
| 02:13.47 | Corrodias | ah, Hunt is part of Equality Now |
| 02:14.09 | Corrodias | i fear they deserve no credibility |
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| 02:15.42 | Kraps | hey felicia day is on "lie to me" |
| 02:15.42 | cbreak | "...Imagery includes women and girls being molested, stalked and gang-raped." He forgot "shot". |
| 02:15.50 | cbreak | oh, wait, shooting people is OK. |
| 02:15.55 | Corrodias | she |
| 02:16.24 | Corrodias | for what that matters - men are as capable of being unreasonable as the next gender |
| 02:17.30 | Adys | 2009-12-17 04:14:18 EET ERROR: integer out of range |
| 02:17.35 | Adys | My domain for verbose errors |
| 02:18.24 | Dagmar | cbreak: He probably just didn't mention it because they frown on euphemisms like "and a host of other lovely personal interactions" at my office |
| 02:18.44 | Dagmar | I imagine other people are just as subject to humorless members of management. |
| 02:22.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Kivnel (n=lenvik@23.213.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 02:27.52 | A-KO | too many split second deicsions on the deathwhisper fight |
| 02:27.55 | A-KO | not enough people know the fight :( |
| 02:29.08 | *** join/#wowuidev bleeter (n=bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 02:31.53 | Cralor` | Why is OnUpdate 8 so much longer than 7? |
| 02:32.11 | Cralor` | timer = 8; timer = timer - elapsed |
| 02:32.52 | Cralor` | It also won't show unless WoW has window focus |
| 02:34.45 | Adys | Ok |
| 02:34.46 | Adys | wtf? |
| 02:35.03 | Adys | anyone good with postgres here? I have an integer column that doesn't even accept 2**31 |
| 02:35.07 | Adys | "Integer out of range" |
| 02:37.12 | Dagmar | i r gud @ google http://sql-info.de/en/postgresql/postgres-gotchas.html#1_4 |
| 02:37.24 | Dagmar | _Probably_ at least related to the problem |
| 02:37.39 | Dagmar | Search terms: postgres integer out of range |
| 02:38.18 | Dagmar | "PostgreSQL assumes non-qualified integers to be of type INT4, i.e. 32-bit integers." |
| 02:39.03 | Adys | Affects: PostgreSQL <= 7.4 |
| 02:39.06 | Adys | u r gud |
| 02:39.21 | Adys | 7.4 is from 2005 or something |
| 02:39.28 | *** join/#wowuidev mojosdojo_ (n=gdbzet26@p4FEFF845.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 02:40.39 | Dagmar | Either way I'm saying you and postgres clearly don't see eye to eye about how long of an int that int field is |
| 02:41.16 | cbreak | Adys: you need a 32 bit integer to store 2^31 |
| 02:41.21 | cbreak | (unsigned) |
| 02:41.26 | cbreak | it's probably a 32 bit signed integer |
| 02:41.33 | cbreak | the biggest value in those is 2^31-1 |
| 02:41.37 | Dagmar | 'bigint' is what I think I'm about to get to, as soon as their website stops being slow |
| 02:41.43 | *** join/#wowuidev taleden (n=alex@user-38q41i6.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 02:41.50 | Adys | I know |
| 02:41.50 | Adys | but |
| 02:41.54 | Adys | django devs are assholes |
| 02:41.54 | Adys | http://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/399 |
| 02:42.14 | Adys | anyway gonna use bigint... |
| 02:42.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (n=callahan@74-141-240-27.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 02:43.08 | Dagmar | Holy crap that bug's been hanging around like a no good Hatfield |
| 02:44.02 | Adys | as i said they are assholes |
| 02:44.27 | cbreak | is it really a bug? |
| 02:44.37 | *** join/#wowuidev neOli1 (n=oliv@htr06-1-82-227-228-20.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 02:44.45 | cbreak | the nature of signed integers is by design |
| 02:45.00 | Adys | the nature of frameworks is to make life easier |
| 02:45.02 | Adys | not harder |
| 02:45.05 | Adys | abstraction ffs. |
| 02:47.55 | cog|away | lol totally looks like george clooney: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf_DNHPBV-s |
| 02:48.05 | cbreak | abstraction of 32 bit integer :) |
| 02:48.24 | cbreak | I guess you could implement an infinite precision integer |
| 02:48.36 | cbreak | but that would be magnitudes slower and would use up variable storage |
| 02:48.51 | Seerah | cogwheel: nah... his eyebrows are too think, nose is the wrong shape, jawline is different.... |
| 02:48.52 | cbreak | the latter of which might not be optimal for databases |
| 02:49.02 | Seerah | *thick |
| 02:49.14 | cogwheel | Seerah: re: thick, i'm pretty sure clooney plucks... |
| 02:49.25 | cogwheel | and yeah, when he's in profile it's ... not so much |
| 02:49.36 | cogwheel | but every time he turns towards the camera i rofl |
| 02:50.03 | Seerah | maybe girls tend to pay attention to his face more, and recognize the difference. ;) |
| 02:50.13 | Seerah | does Miki think he looks just like him? :p |
| 02:50.19 | cogwheel | rofls more |
| 02:54.09 | Seerah | cogwheel: are you two now discussing how hot she thinks he is? ;) |
| 02:54.32 | cogwheel | "not really" |
| 02:54.44 | cogwheel | "i don't like the tall stickly guys" |
| 02:54.49 | Seerah | "not really" to the guy looking like him? ohhhh |
| 02:54.50 | Adys | cbreak: its what python does |
| 02:54.57 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR (n=doingwha@24.114.252.244) |
| 02:55.08 | DWSR | Hey, how can I turn on/off guild bank repairs for a rank? |
| 02:55.17 | cbreak | are you the GM? |
| 02:55.22 | Seerah | I don't think he's "stickly". I don't like the burly guys. |
| 02:55.32 | cbreak | if you are, you can go to the guild rank settings |
| 02:55.38 | cbreak | select the rank you want to change |
| 02:55.51 | cbreak | and set a limit for the money people can take out from the bank, or repair for |
| 02:56.05 | DWSR | cbreak: I want to do it in a macro/addon. |
| 02:56.17 | DWSR | And just turn it on with a set limit for every rank in the guild. |
| 02:56.22 | cbreak | hmm. I'd look at the source for that :) |
| 02:56.37 | DWSR | cbreak: I'm just looking for a function that will turn it on/off. |
| 02:56.42 | cbreak | (from the WoW interface) |
| 02:58.43 | DWSR | It's not on Wowprogramming.com |
| 02:58.44 | DWSR | :( |
| 03:01.50 | cogwheel | Seerah: i think she was coming at it from the other direction... likes a bit more ... substance ;) |
| 03:01.56 | Seerah | DWSR: http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/GuildControlSetRankFlag |
| 03:02.10 | cogwheel | she likes* |
| 03:02.27 | Seerah | cogwheel: :) |
| 03:02.40 | cogwheel | knows from experience :> |
| 03:02.45 | Seerah | rofl |
| 03:03.01 | cogwheel | could use a little less substance |
| 03:04.53 | A-KO | NICE |
| 03:04.57 | A-KO | finally got lady deathwhisper down |
| 03:05.02 | A-KO | fuck |
| 03:05.04 | A-KO | what a pain in the ass fight |
| 03:05.17 | *** join/#wowuidev taleden (n=alex@user-38q41i6.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 03:05.43 | cogwheel | "yeah, ok, i do think george clooney's hot, now who was I thinking of?" |
| 03:05.45 | cogwheel | >< |
| 03:06.04 | Seerah | rofl! |
| 03:06.07 | Seerah | huggles Miki |
| 03:06.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Polarina (n=polarina@wesnoth/translator/Polarina) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 03:06.59 | DWSR | Seerah: ^5 |
| 03:07.12 | Seerah | DWSR: ? |
| 03:11.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Polarina (n=polarina@wesnoth/translator/Polarina) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 03:14.52 | DWSR | high five. |
| 03:15.03 | DWSR | Seerah: Now, here's my question: How can I get the number of guild ranks? |
| 03:15.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Polarina (n=polarina@cl-577.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 03:15.54 | Seerah | DWSR: http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api_categories#guild |
| 03:16.03 | Polarina | Stupid splitnet. |
| 03:16.04 | Seerah | http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/GuildControlGetNumRanks |
| 03:16.07 | Polarina | Now I am +o. |
| 03:16.25 | Polarina | :( |
| 03:16.35 | Seerah | Polarina: not in this channel... |
| 03:16.43 | DWSR | Seerah: Thanks |
| 03:16.46 | Polarina | Seerah: At least my client thinks I am. |
| 03:17.44 | Jerub | Polarina: your client lies to you. |
| 03:17.48 | Polarina | Weird. :S |
| 03:17.57 | Polarina | slaps Pidgin. |
| 03:18.25 | cogwheel | hugs his droid (figuratively) |
| 03:18.33 | Jerub | Does anyone else find it amusing when someone kills themselfs with the soul mirror in icc5man #1? |
| 03:18.56 | DWSR | Is there anyway to use macro conditionals for /script? |
| 03:19.04 | Polarina | Seerah: Can you do a -o on me to fix my client? |
| 03:19.38 | DWSR | Polarina: /hop |
| 03:19.50 | *** mode/#wowuidev [-o Polarina] by Seerah |
| 03:19.51 | Polarina | DWSR: "Unknown command." |
| 03:19.56 | Polarina | Seerah: Thanks. :) |
| 03:20.00 | DWSR | try /cycle |
| 03:20.25 | Polarina | DWSR: Same error. |
| 03:20.29 | DWSR | huh |
| 03:20.39 | DWSR | Oh god. |
| 03:20.46 | Polarina | DWSR: What? |
| 03:20.47 | DWSR | Get a better client. |
| 03:20.57 | Polarina | DWSR: This one works just fine. |
| 03:21.12 | DWSR | /hop or /cycle are pretty basic commands |
| 03:21.30 | Seerah | basic to which clients? ;) |
| 03:21.41 | DWSR | All the popular clients. |
| 03:21.44 | DWSR | Including Mibbit. |
| 03:21.54 | DWSR | And mibbit's a damned web client. |
| 03:22.06 | Seerah | I use Pidgin. So does Cairenn and plenty others that come in this channel :) |
| 03:22.35 | Jerub | heh pidgin |
| 03:22.56 | Jerub | i use irssi |
| 03:23.15 | DWSR | Pidgin's an awful client. |
| 03:23.23 | DWSR | awful IRC* client |
| 03:23.31 | DWSR | It's IRC implementation is just bad. |
| 03:23.39 | Keias | Pidgin is awesome |
| 03:23.56 | Polarina | DWSR: You mean libpurple's IRC implementation. ;) |
| 03:23.57 | Keias | But yeah, I don't like it's IRC features. even with the extra plugins :( |
| 03:24.12 | A-KO | we just had the MT and a healer fail at jetpack :( |
| 03:25.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Hirsute (n=chatzill@lre-east-3-11.usahousing.utah.edu) |
| 03:25.59 | *** join/#wowuidev TC-Away (n=Thunder_@cpe-76-171-31-86.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 03:26.28 | Hirsute | http://failblog.org/2009/12/08/bus-rules-fail/ <--Just in case you were wondering. |
| 03:30.25 | cogwheel | comments are ... Oo |
| 03:30.40 | Dagmar | Yes, that's the 4chan effect right there |
| 03:31.43 | Hirsute | I didn't look at the comments. I generally find I sleep better when I don't. |
| 03:32.09 | Arrowmaster | comments are like that on all the sites in that group |
| 03:32.30 | Dagmar | Ahhh... bliss |
| 03:32.52 | Jerub | does anyone here know anything about the flameleviathan fight? |
| 03:33.02 | Dagmar | Yes. |
| 03:33.14 | Dagmar | Haven't been in there in awhile but it's pretty straightforward |
| 03:33.30 | cogwheel | lolcats comments don't bug me so much for some reason |
| 03:33.31 | cbreak | If you do the easy mode, you should be able to kill him onehanded |
| 03:33.36 | Dagmar | Yep |
| 03:33.41 | Jerub | okay, so is it normal for a gunner in a demolisher to do >50% of the raid damage? |
| 03:33.51 | Dagmar | Could be |
| 03:33.54 | cbreak | with propper stacking of the dot |
| 03:33.58 | Dagmar | Recount has NO idea what happens in that fight |
| 03:33.58 | cbreak | and if all others are incompetent :) |
| 03:34.04 | Jerub | just with anti-air rockets? |
| 03:34.06 | cogwheel | http://icanhascheezburger.com/2009/12/16/funny-pictures-herald-kittehs-singgg/ |
| 03:34.14 | cbreak | with the dot |
| 03:34.15 | Dagmar | i've gotten over 50% of the damage credited to me on the _motorcycle_ before |
| 03:34.30 | Jerub | cbreak: the dot is managed by someone other than the gunner of a demolisher though. |
| 03:34.44 | cbreak | yes |
| 03:34.50 | cbreak | but how should addons know? :) |
| 03:35.14 | Adys | [05:23:39] <Keias> Pidgin is awesome |
| 03:35.14 | Adys | no |
| 03:35.15 | Adys | it is not |
| 03:35.16 | Jerub | i see huge numbers come up on MBT as well when just spamming anti-air |
| 03:35.19 | Jerub | hehe |
| 03:35.26 | Adys | pidgin is the worst client in the history of bad clients |
| 03:35.35 | Hirsute | Adys++ |
| 03:35.35 | Jerub | it's just freaky, i think anti-air rockets are OP |
| 03:35.39 | Dagmar | Yeah I was teasing my guildmates saying if they didnt' pick up the pace I was going to solo Kologarn without them |
| 03:36.08 | Jerub | Dagmar: heh |
| 03:37.24 | Dagmar | I started to make flash animations explaining how to do it on easy, but there's no free flash editor that doesn't make me want to go ludd |
| 03:37.49 | Dagmar | I was one of those guys doing it just before the server reset each week |
| 03:37.50 | Dagmar | heh |
| 03:37.54 | cbreak | you could make a lua animation |
| 03:38.23 | cbreak | requires lots of coding though :) |
| 03:38.50 | Polarina | cbreak: :) |
| 03:39.27 | Dagmar | I actually got stuck on turret duty one night because there was a surplus of hunters |
| 03:39.46 | Dagmar | It works if you throw hunters up there in pairs. :) |
| 03:40.56 | WobWork | cogwheel: lolcats comments make me want to cut people |
| 03:41.05 | WobWork | IT'S ONLY CUTE WHEN THE CATS DO IT |
| 03:42.28 | Polarina | needs more words. |
| 03:42.36 | Dagmar | It might be the only language they know well enough to post in |
| 03:44.04 | Dagmar | I should look at my currency tab more often. |
| 03:44.18 | Dagmar | Last night it had 78 badges of triumph in it |
| 03:44.26 | kd3 | tonight? 1830? |
| 03:44.28 | cogwheel | http://sgcafe.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195727&stc=1&d=1248191836 |
| 03:44.32 | Jerub | heh, i'm sitting on 80+ at the moment. |
| 03:44.45 | Dagmar | I was like "Where the hell did all those come from?" |
| 03:45.01 | Jerub | I had 130 when 3.3 came out |
| 03:45.03 | Dagmar | I've been trying to get the FoS instances down pat, running them over and over |
| 03:45.06 | Jerub | then pugged a bit and went on a shopping spree |
| 03:45.16 | Jerub | Dagmar: do they drop triumph on norm? |
| 03:45.25 | Dagmar | I really couldn't tell yuo |
| 03:45.48 | Dagmar | I've been running them both ways, whichever way there's people for, on random |
| 03:45.52 | Jerub | Dagmar: I do FoS+PoS on H as tank, but chicken out unless i really really like my group at HoR |
| 03:46.06 | Dagmar | I don't generally look at what drops unless it's something I can equip |
| 03:46.11 | kd3 | cogwheel, lol |
| 03:46.15 | Jerub | yeah, me too |
| 03:46.19 | Dagmar | Too right HoR is _mean_ |
| 03:46.20 | Jerub | there's a polearm in there i think. i want it. |
| 03:46.35 | Jerub | weirdly, i couldn't heal it, but i could tank. |
| 03:46.44 | Jerub | my bear isn't as stylishly equipped as my tree. |
| 03:46.50 | Dagmar | We lost a paladin in there last night just as we entered the cave part, had to say "Well dude, we'll come back for ya" |
| 03:47.27 | Jerub | Dagmar: you won the dps race without a prot pally? |
| 03:47.41 | Jerub | (and oh god, it's almost a literal dps race) |
| 03:47.46 | Dagmar | We had two pallies, a mage, a hunter, and a warrior |
| 03:47.49 | Dagmar | I think |
| 03:48.04 | Jerub | i meant ret not prot |
| 03:48.17 | Dagmar | Several of our people have altitis. Most of our tanks have warriors and paladin alts |
| 03:48.40 | Dagmar | deh. lemem armory |
| 03:49.03 | Polarina | wishes to know who won today's grunty. |
| 03:49.16 | Dagmar | Yeah, we lost one of our paladins who I think was specced prot then |
| 03:49.37 | Dagmar | It was definitely close with only three deeps and a paladin |
| 03:50.06 | Dagmar | When you're backed up against the wall going "Oh mY GOD HE'S ALMOST HERE" |
| 03:50.15 | Jerub | it's crazy when you pug with one of those crazy mofos that pull 10k aoe dps on the trash in FoS |
| 03:50.40 | Dagmar | We ilke that CC works, and we like that there's places where we can just AoE the whole place |
| 03:50.57 | Dagmar | Cayda acts like a kid in a candy shop when you get to the area with the slaves |
| 03:51.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (n=dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 03:51.59 | Jerub | <-- druid tank. |
| 03:52.07 | Jerub | very limited on CC |
| 03:52.21 | Dagmar | Stuns count. |
| 03:52.44 | Dagmar | The damn spreist in our guild is still pantsing me on dps |
| 03:53.29 | Jerub | heh, bear stun CD is like 40 seconds or something |
| 03:53.39 | Dagmar | Longer lasting than arrow on a stick |
| 03:54.11 | Dagmar | At Failrik and Marvin I'm basically just alternating between volley and ice trapping the occasional pesky hunter |
| 03:54.23 | Jerub | 1 minute |
| 03:54.27 | Dagmar | They feign death. Heheh |
| 04:05.26 | WobWork | Dagmar: arrow on a stick? =) |
| 04:09.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal_ (n=dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 04:15.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Sesshu| (n=Sesshu@ip-176-16.travedsl.de) |
| 04:17.12 | Dagmar | er trap on a stick. Freezing arrow. |
| 04:18.46 | cogwheel | >< That radio show host I clashed with was in my contacts when i sent out that warning about acrobat... |
| 04:19.56 | cogwheel | "Please remove me from your email list. Any further contact will be considered an act of aggression." |
| 04:20.11 | Dagmar | You're threatening people with viruses now? |
| 04:20.13 | Dagmar | Man... |
| 04:20.22 | cogwheel | ~lart Dagmar |
| 04:20.22 | purl | puts on a hockey mask and jumps out at Dagmar |
| 04:20.57 | Dagmar | I've already had my calculated risk for the day notifying my ex-gf's professor that her workstation is filthy with h8srt |
| 04:21.08 | Dagmar | ...and beating it off her laptop with a stick. |
| 04:21.42 | Dagmar | Rootkit.TDSS + h8srt is a pain in the butt |
| 04:30.01 | Jerub | heh, windows |
| 04:34.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Yssaril|Away (n=Yssaril@99-57-32-25.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 04:38.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Yssaril|Away (n=Yssaril@99-57-32-25.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 04:42.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (n=Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 04:42.52 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 04:50.49 | AbsolutRayne | O_o |
| 04:53.48 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (n=airtonix@ppp118-210-198-117.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net) |
| 04:53.52 | WobWork | cogwheel: You're maliciously informing him of viruses, because you -know- he'll take the opposite stance and get infected |
| 04:53.57 | WobWork | Just to PROVE YOU WRONG |
| 04:55.01 | Arrowmaster | what the fuck is with all the 720p files ive been getting lately with fucked up aspect ratios, 1280x720 video but the containers got an incorrect aspect ratio in it so its displayed at 1280x722 or 1288x720 |
| 04:58.21 | Cairenn | cogwheel: this email in my inbox re Adobe - is that actually a legit email from you, or is it spam? |
| 04:59.11 | NightHawkTheSane | Cairenn: is it regarding a javascript vulnerability in reader? it may be legit, adobe did announce a vulnerability |
| 04:59.18 | Cairenn | yep |
| 04:59.25 | cogwheel | Cairenn: sure is |
| 04:59.42 | Cairenn | just walked in the door, been running around all day getting holiday type stuffs done |
| 04:59.43 | Cairenn | :) |
| 04:59.50 | Cairenn | so just getting caught up on everything |
| 05:00.28 | Polarina | :D |
| 05:00.48 | Polarina | waits patiently for the winner of the next Grunty. |
| 05:01.29 | Cairenn | heh, as I said, just got in the door |
| 05:01.39 | Cairenn | about to do the draw and post the next clue right now :) |
| 05:02.04 | Nechckn | cheers |
| 05:02.10 | Nechckn | gimme, gimme |
| 05:02.22 | Polarina | spam refreshes. |
| 05:06.16 | Polarina | lost. :( |
| 05:06.22 | AbsolutRayne | :( |
| 05:06.44 | AbsolutRayne | Oh, I already have this word I thinkl |
| 05:07.04 | Polarina | Me too. |
| 05:07.26 | Polarina | Reminds me of farclip. |
| 05:08.17 | AbsolutRayne | Yeah I think I have it. |
| 05:08.34 | Polarina | I am only missing two words. |
| 05:08.44 | AbsolutRayne | >_<How are you people finding these things |
| 05:09.01 | Polarina | I guess. |
| 05:09.05 | AbsolutRayne | Oh |
| 05:09.05 | Polarina | I don't search. |
| 05:09.06 | AbsolutRayne | :S |
| 05:09.16 | Polarina | These are very simple generic words. :) |
| 05:09.27 | AbsolutRayne | I have 10 :S |
| 05:09.50 | AbsolutRayne | sighs |
| 05:10.00 | Polarina | :( |
| 05:10.25 | Polarina | AbsolutRayne: There's also google: http://www.google.is/#hl=is&q=%22Gift+Hunt+Word%22&lr=&fp=f64db0afdb22e400 |
| 05:10.33 | AbsolutRayne | Thats also....cheating |
| 05:10.38 | AbsolutRayne | Well |
| 05:10.39 | AbsolutRayne | tome |
| 05:10.39 | Polarina | Who cares? |
| 05:10.41 | Polarina | :P |
| 05:10.44 | AbsolutRayne | I do? |
| 05:10.55 | Yssaril | its not like they are hard to figure out |
| 05:11.01 | Polarina | Less murky for you then. |
| 05:11.32 | AbsolutRayne | Well apparently they are for me since I only have half |
| 05:11.34 | AbsolutRayne | shrugs |
| 05:11.38 | Cairenn | some people want to find them all now, some would rather do it in the spirit of the game, one at a time as the clues are posted |
| 05:11.44 | AbsolutRayne | Guess that makes me retarded or something |
| 05:11.50 | Cairenn | nope |
| 05:12.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Spectre (n=SPectre@220.253-221-43.TAS.netspace.net.au) |
| 05:12.54 | Polarina | makes a script that runs bruteforce attacks to find words. :) |
| 05:14.45 | WobWork | wait wait |
| 05:14.49 | WobWork | we need to find all of them? |
| 05:14.58 | WobWork | I thought it was just 'find one a day for a prize for that day' |
| 05:15.11 | Cairenn | WobWork: no, you don't |
| 05:15.18 | Cairenn | need to find all of them, that is |
| 05:15.25 | Polarina | WobWork: Finding more == Higher chances. |
| 05:15.46 | AbsolutRayne | How many entries are there total now, Cairenn |
| 05:15.56 | Cairenn | 2959 |
| 05:16.01 | AbsolutRayne | O_o geez |
| 05:16.06 | Cairenn | well, when I drew the name, that is |
| 05:16.13 | Polarina | And now? :P |
| 05:16.25 | Cairenn | who knows how many have already added to that count since I posted the next clue |
| 05:16.35 | Polarina | You might know. |
| 05:16.50 | Cairenn | I could go look it up, yes |
| 05:16.57 | Polarina | Will ye? :P |
| 05:16.58 | Cairenn | not going to though :p |
| 05:17.04 | Polarina | Why not? :( |
| 05:17.25 | Cairenn | because I'm still trying to get caught up on everything else on the rest of my sites, since I've been out all day ;) |
| 05:17.25 | Dagmar | Just tell him "IT'S OVER 9000!" and get it over with. |
| 05:17.30 | Polarina | Ok, one question then: Is the increase significant or not? |
| 05:17.39 | Dagmar | You know you want to. |
| 05:17.56 | Cairenn | Polarina: I don't know, I haven't looked |
| 05:18.01 | Polarina | Oh. :( |
| 05:18.10 | Cairenn | just explained that :p |
| 05:18.18 | Polarina | :( |
| 05:18.22 | Polarina | :'( |
| 05:18.33 | Polarina | continues with her addon. |
| 05:19.22 | Spectre | anyone good at regular expressions? I'm trying to use the string.find command to find the word "ding" in incoming whispers. Which isn't too hard in itself, but I can't find a way to make it not pick up words with ding in them, such as "wedding" and allow for other words in the whispers such as "woot ding!", and still work. |
| 05:20.59 | Polarina | Spectre: Turn to lowercase, split at each whitespace, foreach split: strip out everything not matching [a-z0-9], foreach split: check for "ding". |
| 05:21.36 | Arrowmaster | %f[%a][Dd][Ii][Nn][Gg]%f[%A] |
| 05:21.57 | Polarina | Or that. |
| 05:23.14 | Spectre | cool thanks, I'll give your ideas a try |
| 05:23.49 | Arrowmaster | lua> string.match("wedding", "%f[%a][Dd][Ii][Nn][Gg]%f[%A]") |
| 05:23.50 | lua_bot | Arrowmaster: nil |
| 05:24.00 | Arrowmaster | lua> string.match("woot ding!", "%f[%a][Dd][Ii][Nn][Gg]%f[%A]") |
| 05:24.00 | lua_bot | Arrowmaster: ding |
| 05:24.25 | Dagmar | Where does %f come from? I didn't see it in PIL |
| 05:24.55 | Arrowmaster | http://lua-users.org/wiki/FrontierPattern |
| 05:25.00 | Arrowmaster | its not documented |
| 05:26.27 | Polarina | lua> string.match("ding", "%f[%a][Dd][Ii][Nn][Gg]%f[%A]") |
| 05:26.27 | lua_bot | Polarina: ding |
| 05:26.33 | Polarina | lua_bot: Congratulations! |
| 05:26.33 | lua_bot | Polarina: luabot:1: '=' expected near '!' |
| 05:26.33 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (n=airtonix@ppp121-45-122-58.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net) |
| 05:26.37 | kd3 | %f is whitespace, isn't it? |
| 05:26.47 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 05:27.05 | Nechckn | Cairenn my name is not Ailae!! |
| 05:27.06 | kd3 | wait, no, that's %s |
| 05:27.12 | Cairenn | Nechckn: sowwy |
| 05:27.19 | Nechckn | geez.. how am I supposed to rig this competition |
| 05:27.26 | Cairenn | lol |
| 05:27.34 | Arrowmaster | whats the prize? |
| 05:27.50 | Cairenn | Grunty |
| 05:27.56 | Nechckn | what do you mean, what is the prize?? have you been living under a rock? |
| 05:27.58 | Nechckn | =P |
| 05:28.13 | Arrowmaster | already got one |
| 05:28.24 | Nechckn | good, so stay away, you! |
| 05:28.29 | WobWork | You could count Arrowmaster's entries as my own, Cair =) |
| 05:28.35 | Nechckn | One less competitor |
| 05:28.37 | Cairenn | lol |
| 05:28.51 | Nechckn | and then you can count WobWork's accumulated entries as mine! |
| 05:29.19 | Nechckn | hangs his beak in shame |
| 05:29.22 | *** part/#wowuidev Iriel (n=Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 05:30.52 | WobWork | Oddly enough I never parse your name as NeChicken |
| 05:31.01 | WobWork | I read it first as Nech-ckn |
| 05:32.53 | Nechckn | you can read it whichever way you like - it has multiple uses |
| 05:33.41 | AbsolutRayne | And now im stuck bashing my head at 12 words. |
| 05:33.59 | AbsolutRayne | Mostly because my guild cant seem to stop wiping on Twins 25 ToGC this week. |
| 05:54.25 | TC-Away | i think it's becoming more popular Cairenn, if it stayed at the same rate as the first day it would have around 2100 names to choose from |
| 05:54.56 | Cairenn | nod |
| 05:56.27 | Polarina | Maraudon has lots of priesty stuff. :P |
| 05:57.54 | Fisker | brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrs |
| 05:58.49 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan@c-76-107-191-65.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 05:58.56 | Polarina | goes leveling. |
| 06:00.45 | *** join/#wowuidev WobWork (n=Wobwork@136.136.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 06:04.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphen (n=gryphon@c-76-104-164-148.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 06:06.43 | Cruciformer | gooooooodmoring everyone |
| 06:07.16 | Thunder_Child | -_- |
| 06:07.59 | Fisker | slaps Thunder_Child around a bit with a large trout |
| 06:08.05 | Fisker | you wouldn't |
| 06:10.29 | Cruciformer | im trying to decide if its sad or a good thing that I dont actually enjoy playing wow any more coz I'm enjoying writing mods too much. |
| 06:12.02 | Polarina | Cruciformer: :P |
| 06:13.47 | Thunder_Child | I WOULD! |
| 06:18.16 | Cairenn | AbsolutRayne: thanks :p |
| 06:18.49 | AbsolutRayne | Cairenn: Not a problem! I couldve seen the entries going up 10 folds if it was a Murky :P |
| 06:19.06 | Cairenn | so why didn't you just ping me in here? lol |
| 06:19.16 | AbsolutRayne | I was raiding, and when I refreshed I saw it |
| 06:19.20 | Cairenn | ah |
| 06:19.23 | AbsolutRayne | So I just popped it on there and went back to wiping on Twins |
| 06:19.25 | AbsolutRayne | :P |
| 06:19.30 | Cairenn | nod |
| 06:22.53 | AbsolutRayne | Definition: DPS Cockblock; Getting Empowered Darkness on Twins, while Heroism is up, and DCing after your first attack. |
| 06:24.07 | Fisker | how could you Thunder_Child ? |
| 06:24.24 | Fisker | or light vortex AbsolutRayne :( |
| 06:25.18 | AbsolutRayne | Fisker: Yeah thats bad too, but I have yet to have that happen to me. :P |
| 06:25.27 | AbsolutRayne | Ive also died upon getting it, thanks to Touch of Light |
| 06:26.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan (n=pancake@cpe-174-098-002-214.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 06:31.26 | Polarina | Cairenn: Please monitor this thread when it reaches 666: http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26856 |
| 06:31.45 | Cairenn | have every intention of it, yup :) |
| 06:31.49 | Polarina | Cairenn: :D |
| 06:34.00 | Polarina | Then it's time for me to go PLAYER_LEVEL_UP a few times. :P |
| 06:34.50 | Cairenn | :) |
| 06:34.54 | Jerub | i gained 2 levels in one SFK the other day |
| 06:34.58 | Jerub | <3 rested xp |
| 06:35.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 06:35.20 | Polarina | Jerub: Nice! |
| 06:35.27 | Jerub | Fisker: btw, you said that shipping for authenticators was free yesterday after i left. |
| 06:35.37 | Jerub | Fisker: but it's free only for you fat lazy americans. |
| 06:37.27 | Thunder_Child | i would find a way Fisker |
| 06:37.31 | Thunder_Child | for you i would |
| 06:38.54 | Fisker | no Jerub |
| 06:39.04 | Fisker | and i'm not american |
| 06:39.12 | Jerub | Fisker: but you are fat and lazy. |
| 06:39.27 | Fisker | indeed i am |
| 06:42.37 | Fisker | so go get one Jerub |
| 06:42.40 | Fisker | etc. |
| 06:45.44 | Jerub | Fisker: i have it on my mobile phone |
| 06:46.37 | Polarina | codes some more while the dungeon finder takes its time. |
| 06:46.42 | Jerub | i love the corehound. i pull him out in raids and use the leash on him. |
| 06:51.25 | Fisker | i love my penis |
| 06:51.33 | Fisker | i pull him out in raids and use the leash on him |
| 06:51.33 | Fisker | ;3 |
| 06:51.45 | Jerub | Fisker: ... you win this round |
| 06:51.52 | Fisker | yep |
| 06:54.00 | cogwheel | I'll get you next time Gadget... Next tiiiiiiiiiiiiime |
| 06:54.47 | Fisker | you! |
| 06:55.09 | Polarina | How about making an addon that allows cross-realm communications (same battlegroup) by the means of onion routing through players in a cross-realm instance? |
| 06:55.38 | Fisker | how about no? |
| 06:55.42 | Jerub | Polarina: probably against TOS but sounds freaking fantastics. |
| 06:55.42 | Polarina | Why not? |
| 06:55.44 | Jerub | please. :) |
| 06:55.51 | Polarina | Jerub: I'll get to it. |
| 06:56.05 | *** join/#wowuidev stolen|school (n=stolenle@193.170.222.163) |
| 06:56.43 | Polarina | I don't see how it would be against the TOC. :P |
| 06:56.50 | Jerub | sigh |
| 06:56.58 | Polarina | Jerub: ? |
| 06:57.08 | Jerub | icc10 marrowgar on 10man has no gear for feral except for the cloak, and no gear for tree except for the trinket. |
| 06:57.37 | Jerub | otoh, 25man is chock full of delicious druid noms |
| 07:05.31 | Dewin | Jerub: Seriously? |
| 07:05.39 | Dewin | My druid probably won't ever get to run ICC25 :-/ |
| 07:05.56 | Dewin | oh, are you just talking about one boss? |
| 07:06.59 | Dewin | also, now that I've read the last 10 minutes of conversation... the idea of cross-realm message delivery sounds kind of interesting as a theory. |
| 07:07.31 | Dewin | I wonder how slow asymmetric key cryptography would be implemented in Lua. |
| 07:09.19 | Polarina | Dewin: Not that slow. |
| 07:09.28 | Polarina | Dewin: I implemented sha256 in Lua, quite fast. |
| 07:12.34 | ZorbaTHut | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjoY_cSmQ70 aweeeeesome |
| 07:12.53 | ZorbaTHut | polarina, that's a beautiful idea, but you'll run into some privacy issues |
| 07:13.06 | Polarina | ZorbaTHut: Encryption? |
| 07:13.10 | ZorbaTHut | also, is it even possible to send addon messages cross-server? |
| 07:13.17 | Polarina | ZorbaTHut: Yes. |
| 07:13.24 | ZorbaTHut | alright, that works then :) |
| 07:13.31 | ZorbaTHut | encryption presents the issue of key management |
| 07:13.35 | Jerub | even if it resulted in a cross-realm chat channel. |
| 07:13.35 | Polarina | ZorbaTHut: Even if not, just broadcast on the current party. |
| 07:13.41 | Jerub | so we can spam something other than trade :P |
| 07:13.50 | ZorbaTHut | then you're spamming your partymates, which is a bit of a problem |
| 07:14.11 | Jerub | isn't there a 'general' channel in instances? |
| 07:14.14 | Jerub | :P |
| 07:14.15 | Polarina | ZorbaTHut: First of all, simple check if other parties have the addon to route. |
| 07:14.29 | Polarina | Jerub: o.O |
| 07:14.33 | Polarina | checks out. |
| 07:15.05 | Polarina | A cross-realm general chat would be nice. :P |
| 07:15.14 | Arrowmaster | sha256 is a hash though, not encryption |
| 07:15.22 | Polarina | Arrowmaster: I know. |
| 07:15.27 | Arrowmaster | encryption requires more work than just a hash |
| 07:15.45 | Polarina | Arrowmaster: I figured. |
| 07:15.50 | ZorbaTHut | personally I wish we could just connect to arbitrary HTTP servers outside WoW :( |
| 07:15.52 | Jerub | not with a big enough rainbow table! |
| 07:16.05 | ZorbaTHut | it would allow us to do such amazing things |
| 07:16.23 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: but then that alliance dude will be able to takl to that horde dude and 5 years of precdent will be down the drain |
| 07:16.53 | ZorbaTHut | jerub, yes, good thing the official forums don't allow exactly that already, and it certainly is lucky that you can't make a character on each faction |
| 07:17.26 | ZorbaTHut | oh, blizzard. :( |
| 07:17.28 | Jerub | :P |
| 07:17.59 | Dewin | My basic idea was a way you can exchange 'keys' with them and relay cross-server messages to them by means of intermediate parties storing copies of the message and looking for it... encrypted so the intermediate parties can't alter the message besides deleting or invalidating it |
| 07:18.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (n=elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 07:18.45 | Polarina | There's also HMAC. |
| 07:19.00 | ZorbaTHut | I've thought about putting together asymmetric encryption, but I eventually concluded it wouldn't solve my problem anyway |
| 07:20.09 | *** join/#wowuidev DJJeff (n=crazyjef@96.49.37.84) |
| 07:20.42 | DJJeff | can anyone score me a link to 11159 patch notes? |
| 07:21.11 | DJJeff | im on the slowest connection possible X_X |
| 07:21.29 | DJJeff | untill friday anyway then im back on super high speed |
| 07:22.32 | Jerub | bitches on forums again about EoF bug |
| 07:25.43 | DJJeff | when you download updates in "peer to peer" mode does it check for authentic copies? (say a peer modifies a patch) the hash or some crap wont match up? |
| 07:26.07 | nevcairiel | torrents do hash checking |
| 07:26.08 | Polarina | DJJeff: What do you mean? |
| 07:26.34 | DJJeff | HTTP Direct download vs Peer to Peer |
| 07:26.50 | DJJeff | they are the same file and file size and hash? |
| 07:26.53 | nevcairiel | yes |
| 07:27.04 | nevcairiel | the downloaded uses torrent, which does hash checking |
| 07:27.22 | Arrowmaster | and blizz doesnt have an http direct download |
| 07:27.31 | nevcairiel | they have a http seed in the torrent |
| 07:27.40 | DJJeff | hrmmmmmmm |
| 07:29.07 | DJJeff | ohhh I see |
| 07:29.10 | DJJeff | there is a Download Hash |
| 07:29.17 | DJJeff | right in the update window |
| 07:29.22 | DJJeff | *smacks head* |
| 07:47.47 | *** join/#wowuidev zenzio (n=zenzio__@ti131310a340-0018.bb.online.no) |
| 07:51.54 | zenzio | "Ted Alvin Klaudt, a former South Dakota lawmaker convicted of raping his two foster daughters, has sent news organizations what he claims is a copyright notice that seeks to prevent the use of his name without his consent." The story says Klaudt maintains "no one can use his name without his consent, and anyone who does would owe him $500,000." |
| 07:59.01 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (i=smcn@c-67-166-76-157.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 08:02.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 08:03.37 | Fisker | zenzio |
| 08:03.41 | Fisker | i'm brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring |
| 08:04.18 | zenzio | cold in Denmark too today? |
| 08:05.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (n=dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 08:05.46 | Fisker | ~weather ekch |
| 08:05.54 | Fisker | brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr |
| 08:06.13 | zenzio | ~weather encn |
| 08:06.49 | zenzio | I suppose you're in a flat part of Denmark? (Not that there's many that aren't) |
| 08:07.18 | Fisker | ^^ |
| 08:07.26 | mikma | cold in finland too |
| 08:07.28 | Fisker | also near sea so even colder |
| 08:08.00 | Fisker | also my radiator is broken |
| 08:08.03 | zenzio | doh |
| 08:10.18 | airtonix | just the C will be enough don't need to know the wind speed on street X |
| 08:10.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 08:10.59 | zenzio | oh, sorry, did we make your IRC scroll by too fast? :) |
| 08:11.26 | mikma | hohoo |
| 08:12.27 | mikma | -17.0°C in here |
| 08:12.33 | zenzio | :-o |
| 08:12.38 | zenzio | where in Finland is that? |
| 08:13.46 | mikma | tampere |
| 08:14.44 | mikma | Min: Tie 21; Muonio, Tapojärvi, mitattu klo 09:55: -29.9°C |
| 08:14.46 | mikma | Max: Tie 970; Utsjoki, Nuorgam, mitattu klo 09:52: -4.6°C |
| 08:15.13 | mikma | Tie = Road, mitattu klo = measured (at time) |
| 08:16.36 | zenzio | that's quite a big difference :-o |
| 08:16.53 | robotusch | http://mmad.dk/random/P1000260.JPG :( |
| 08:17.02 | robotusch | also, I lol'd på Fisker |
| 08:17.30 | Fisker | First my cat was like |
| 08:17.33 | Fisker | WUT IS THIS SNOW?! |
| 08:17.40 | Fisker | Then it was like brrrrrrrrrrrrrr i want to get in |
| 08:17.58 | robotusch | :D |
| 08:18.14 | robotusch | Sounds like my moms Dachshund in its first winter |
| 08:18.42 | robotusch | I opened the door, out ran the dog, to seconds later I hear a loud squeal and said dog comes running back in |
| 08:19.24 | olafski | mm lurvly snow |
| 08:19.25 | robotusch | two seconds* |
| 08:19.26 | robotusch | they closed a load of schools etc overhere, and all the public transport is fubar |
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| 08:26.57 | zenzio | "Ionar, in the Halls of Lightning, will now only disperse once during the course of the fight." -- about time :-p |
| 08:27.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (n=Srosh@213.39.136.93) |
| 08:27.53 | zenzio | "The Looking For Group item level requirement for Halls of Reflection has been raised to match the difficulty of the encounters." -- nice... pity it won't stop the douchebags |
| 08:28.32 | nevcairiel | at least my sucky DK tank wont get put into it then! |
| 08:29.06 | olafski | indeed about time on ionar |
| 08:32.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (n=caleb@dsl4E5C07CD.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 08:32.56 | DWSR | zenzio: Where are you getting these from? |
| 08:33.10 | zenzio | mmo-champion |
| 08:33.16 | DWSR | ..link? |
| 08:33.27 | nevcairiel | add a .com and type yourself :P |
| 08:33.41 | zenzio | http://www.mmo-champion.com/news-2/1216-hotfixes-dungeon-system-loot-blue-posts/ |
| 08:33.47 | DWSR | thank's. |
| 08:33.49 | DWSR | thanks* |
| 08:33.53 | DWSR | apostrophe fail. |
| 08:34.26 | DWSR | Deathbringer Saurfang's Rune of Blood has been modified to heal 10 times the amount of damage dealt instead of 5 times the damage. <- Doesn't make the encounter any harder if you do it with 1 tank. |
| 08:34.28 | DWSR | err, 2 tanks* |
| 08:34.41 | DWSR | Saurfang is such a joke. I can't believe he's the end wing boss. |
| 08:34.51 | nevcairiel | DWSR: read the second line then, doh |
| 08:35.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (n=dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 08:35.20 | DWSR | nevcairiel: My point is that I think that he needs a buff. |
| 08:35.21 | DWSR | Period. |
| 08:35.34 | DWSR | He's way too easy, especially on 10 player mode. |
| 08:35.39 | nevcairiel | its non-heroic, its supposed to be easy |
| 08:35.51 | nevcairiel | besides, everything in there is a joke |
| 08:35.55 | DWSR | nevcairiel: Exactly. |
| 08:36.14 | DWSR | this is the LK's castle for God's sake. |
| 08:36.16 | nevcairiel | but its supposed to be easy |
| 08:36.23 | DWSR | This is the SEAT OF THE SCOURGE'S POWER |
| 08:36.24 | nevcairiel | you want hard? play heroic |
| 08:36.46 | DWSR | And we fucking get to waltz in and fuckstart bosses. |
| 08:36.49 | DWSR | nevcairiel: I would love to. |
| 08:36.53 | DWSR | nevcairiel: Too bad I have to wait 6 months |
| 08:37.09 | nevcairiel | wont be 6 month, uless you take that long to kill arthas |
| 08:37.29 | DWSR | nevcairiel: It's a month for each wing, most likely. |
| 08:37.39 | nevcairiel | it wont be |
| 08:37.48 | DWSR | nevcairiel: It's almost a month for the second wing. =\ |
| 08:37.51 | Arrowmaster | they said the others will be lest |
| 08:37.54 | Arrowmaster | less |
| 08:37.54 | nevcairiel | indeed |
| 08:37.56 | DWSR | Oh? Did they? |
| 08:37.59 | DWSR | That's good then. |
| 08:38.02 | DWSR | still have to wait 3 months. |
| 08:38.17 | DWSR | Plus I doubt my guild will get to/kill the LK when there's only 5 attempts. |
| 08:38.33 | nevcairiel | I thought its all too easy :d |
| 08:38.42 | Arrowmaster | buy more from battle.net store |
| 08:38.59 | DWSR | nevcairiel: Unfortunately, you need the 9/24 other douchebags in your raid to not be braindead. |
| 08:39.03 | Arrowmaster | you know theyll be selling more attempts |
| 08:39.20 | DWSR | My guild normally carries 6-8 people. |
| 08:39.23 | DWSR | Arrowmaster: I doubt it. |
| 08:39.28 | DWSR | that would undermine the whole point of gating. |
| 08:39.40 | DWSR | Also, what do you do? More attempts on your own toon? For your guild? |
| 08:39.53 | DWSR | For raids lead by your toon? |
| 08:39.59 | DWSR | It's just a hassle. |
| 08:40.10 | DWSR | I doubt that there will be only 5 attempts for more than a week or two at most. |
| 08:40.19 | DWSR | I'd bet a week, anyway. |
| 08:40.41 | DWSR | Because all the bads will start QQing and say "I WANT TO KILL LK AND GET MA EPICZ QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ" |
| 08:41.10 | DWSR | And all the better guilds will have killed him shortly thereafter and gone on a 6 month break from WoW until Cata hits. |
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| 08:44.57 | *** join/#wowuidev frontendloader (n=Dezzimal@207.118.158.176) |
| 08:45.34 | olafski | it isn't 5 attempts anyway for the LK |
| 08:45.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (n=Vilkku@dsl-tkubrasgw1-ffc7c100-46.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 08:45.52 | olafski | didn't they up it to 10 already? and with every wing that opens you get 5 more |
| 08:46.05 | olafski | so if you kill the end-of-wing bosses in one shot you'll have all your attempts left for the LK |
| 08:46.15 | DWSR | olafski: Still, 20 attempts isn't much |
| 08:46.22 | olafski | 25* ;) |
| 08:46.32 | olafski | I guess it isn't too hard though, if the rest isn't hard either |
| 08:46.34 | olafski | on normal that is |
| 08:46.37 | nevcairiel | 25 attempts for a non heroic boss should be fine |
| 08:46.43 | olafski | yeah |
| 08:46.50 | olafski | if you don't get it the first week you'll get it the second |
| 08:47.02 | DWSR | Yeah. |
| 08:47.05 | olafski | don't forget you'll also get the Wrynn buff (or whatever horde gets) |
| 08:47.19 | DWSR | Is LK solo in his wing or is there other bosses with him? |
| 08:47.30 | nevcairiel | I doubt the wrynn buff will boost you that much |
| 08:47.33 | olafski | I imagine he opens when you clear the 4 wings |
| 08:47.34 | nevcairiel | will just balance out things |
| 08:47.42 | olafski | hm I haven't checked out what it does nevcairiel +) |
| 08:47.48 | olafski | never even set foot in ICC |
| 08:48.30 | DWSR | You don't get it yet. |
| 08:49.08 | olafski | ah |
| 08:49.11 | DWSR | Which reminds me, is the gunship battle just stupidly easy or what? |
| 08:49.12 | olafski | only after the wings are all open? |
| 08:49.28 | DWSR | Spam 1, get to ~90 heat. |
| 08:49.30 | DWSR | hit 2. |
| 08:49.33 | DWSR | Rinse/repeat. |
| 08:49.36 | DWSR | AoE down trash. |
| 08:49.43 | DWSR | Like...that's it. |
| 08:49.50 | olafski | sounds good |
| 08:49.57 | olafski | maybe at lvl 85 I'll try to pug this raid sometime |
| 08:49.57 | nevcairiel | You never been in the team that kills the mage, eh? :) |
| 08:50.20 | DWSR | My guild 2 shot it. Only reason we didn't kill it on the first attempt was because the guild leader rocketjumped into the void between ships because he didn't realise the jetpack was targeted at the ground like RoF or Blzizard |
| 08:50.24 | DWSR | Blizzard* |
| 08:50.35 | DWSR | nevcairiel: I'm a Demo lock, I should hope not. |
| 08:50.47 | DWSR | Pets don't deal with pathing in the game when there *is* a way around the obstacle. |
| 08:50.55 | DWSR | Jumping across a chasm? Forget it. |
| 08:51.00 | DWSR | They die, then I'm useless. |
| 08:51.17 | nevcairiel | if you just sit in the cannon half the fight, of course its easy :d |
| 08:51.23 | DWSR | nevcairiel: From what I've watched, though, it's not like it's particularly hard either. |
| 08:51.24 | nevcairiel | its not hard otherwise |
| 08:51.25 | olafski | really? sometimes when I jump down somewhere my pet comes along |
| 08:51.28 | nevcairiel | but meh |
| 08:51.50 | nevcairiel | our hunters jumped over, don't remember what happend to their pets, though |
| 08:51.55 | DWSR | olafski: When I jump anywhere on my ship, the pet tries to walk, even if I jump straight up a cliff. |
| 08:52.05 | DWSR | Proof enough for me to never try jumping |
| 08:52.08 | DWSR | Though next time I might. |
| 08:52.14 | DWSR | imo, Blizzard needs to fix pet pathing badly. |
| 08:52.21 | olafski | hm |
| 08:52.31 | DWSR | Every time you jump off of a cliff, no matter if the way down is _2 inches_ beside you, your pet should jump too. |
| 08:52.42 | olafski | my pet generally does that |
| 08:52.47 | DWSR | Also, the fall rate of pets shouldn't be different than yours, that's just fucking foolish. |
| 08:52.53 | olafski | yeah that is annoying |
| 08:52.59 | olafski | if I dismount over a lake sometimes my demon despawns |
| 08:53.18 | DWSR | Yep. |
| 08:53.35 | DWSR | olafski: My pet doesn't jump if there is a way down. |
| 08:53.46 | DWSR | olafski: He generally runs down the ramp, normally pulling a trash group or two in a heroic. |
| 08:54.25 | DWSR | Think Nexus, OK, UP |
| 08:54.41 | DWSR | That's what I mean by pet pathing. |
| 08:54.49 | DWSR | The pet should fucking jump, not run down the stairs. |
| 08:55.01 | zenzio | DWSR: UBRS |
| 08:57.49 | DWSR | that too |
| 09:01.59 | olafski | ah.. yeah true it does run if there is a way |
| 09:02.05 | DWSR | I love how Blizzard says "Bring the player, not the class", then refuses to give certain buffs to more classes. |
| 09:02.09 | DWSR | Like Replenishment. |
| 09:02.21 | DWSR | Or, when they do give it to other classes, it's a garbage version (read: ISL). |
| 09:02.41 | olafski | but in the case of jumping to another airship, I'd say there is no other way |
| 09:02.47 | olafski | ISL? :s |
| 09:02.52 | DWSR | http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=54118 |
| 09:02.55 | olafski | don't like half the classes have replenishment? |
| 09:03.10 | DWSR | Paladin, Hunter, Lock, Priest. |
| 09:03.11 | DWSR | That's it, iirc. |
| 09:03.16 | olafski | mage |
| 09:03.21 | DWSR | Ah, and Mage. |
| 09:03.24 | olafski | half the classes :) |
| 09:03.27 | DWSR | But lock replen isn't as powerful. |
| 09:03.30 | olafski | that's more than.. fortitude :) |
| 09:03.36 | DWSR | olafski: but now we have scrolls. |
| 09:03.42 | olafski | those are weaker too |
| 09:03.45 | olafski | same thing ;) |
| 09:03.50 | olafski | does ISL perhaps stack with replenishment? |
| 09:03.52 | DWSR | No. |
| 09:03.58 | olafski | dang |
| 09:04.00 | DWSR | It gives replenishment, it just has a much lower proc change. |
| 09:04.02 | DWSR | chance* |
| 09:04.13 | olafski | hm, 3% over 15 seconds |
| 09:04.16 | olafski | thought replenishment was more |
| 09:04.27 | DWSR | (read: 20% lower) |
| 09:04.30 | olafski | ah no it's the same |
| 09:04.47 | DWSR | http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=30296 |
| 09:04.50 | olafski | it says "100% chance" on that page :/ |
| 09:04.58 | DWSR | olafski: That's a 100% chance based on Soul Leech |
| 09:05.05 | olafski | ah |
| 09:05.12 | olafski | no clue what that is.. my lock is only lvl 72 |
| 09:05.54 | DWSR | ~wowspell 30296 |
| 09:05.55 | purl | http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=30296 http://www.wowdb.com/spell.aspx?id=30296 |
| 09:05.58 | olafski | hmm.. 30% chance |
| 09:06.11 | olafski | paladin, mage and priest have 100% chance |
| 09:06.36 | olafski | hunters generally don't I guess, 5 points in hunting party is a waste imo |
| 09:06.46 | DWSR | http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=48160 <- when you deal damage with mind blast....kthx. |
| 09:07.02 | olafski | yes |
| 09:07.03 | DWSR | olafski: Lots of hunters spec replenishment. |
| 09:07.07 | olafski | yeah but 5 points? |
| 09:07.11 | DWSR | right, Locks have a 30% chance to. |
| 09:07.21 | DWSR | olafski: There isn't much in the Survival tree worth taking. |
| 09:07.35 | DWSR | the best part is that spriests get it free as part of their talent spec. |
| 09:07.48 | olafski | my sv build still only has like 2 points in hunting party |
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| 09:08.03 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 09:08.03 | olafski | but they have enough crit to keep it up 100% anyway |
| 09:08.36 | DWSR | olafski: It's a 5% agility boosst as well. |
| 09:08.36 | olafski | and priests will generally cast mind blast as soon as it is off cooldown |
| 09:08.47 | DWSR | olafski: You're going to ignore 5% agility? |
| 09:08.55 | olafski | hmm |
| 09:09.01 | DWSR | err, 3%. |
| 09:09.20 | DWSR | It's also not a 5 point talent. |
| 09:09.22 | DWSR | It's a 3 point talent. |
| 09:09.24 | olafski | ah yeah I'm outdated |
| 09:09.26 | DWSR | 33/66/100% |
| 09:09.29 | olafski | I have one point in it |
| 09:09.34 | olafski | so yeah I'm missing 2% agility |
| 09:10.16 | olafski | "wow you actually got through to him." "of course I did, it's my damn show" :D |
| 09:10.27 | DWSR | lol |
| 09:11.18 | olafski | guess I found other talents more important |
| 09:11.30 | olafski | I have 3/3 focused aim for instance.. not very good gear |
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| 09:11.58 | olafski | time to try some tanking.. bbl |
| 09:12.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Aqua (n=Aquavett@74.137.180.251) |
| 09:12.15 | DWSR | olafski: You can't cap out your hit rating? |
| 09:12.17 | DWSR | LOL |
| 09:12.18 | *** join/#wowuidev PProvost_ (n=PProvost@71.229.131.32) |
| 09:12.23 | DWSR | Isn't your hit cap like 11%? |
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| 09:13.26 | DWSR | no, LOL, it's 8%. |
| 09:13.36 | DWSR | How can you not cap out 8%? |
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| 09:16.41 | olafski | http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Dragonblight&n=Hunterski is probably a bad indication.. |
| 09:16.46 | olafski | I forgot what gear I have.. he just turned 80 |
| 09:18.22 | DWSR | olafski: Still, not being able to cap out a physical DPS class is pretty bad. |
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| 09:18.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (n=Kaso@studio.fuzemedia.co.uk) |
| 09:18.32 | olafski | if you haven't played since you hit 80? |
| 09:18.32 | DWSR | olafski: Spellcasters have an additional 9% of hit to make up. |
| 09:18.32 | olafski | I doubt that :P |
| 09:18.32 | *** join/#wowuidev neOliv (n=oliv@82.227.228.20) |
| 09:18.41 | olafski | yeah but they get more % for each point of rating |
| 09:18.41 | DWSR | olafski: I was hit capped the first time I stepped into heroic. |
| 09:18.41 | olafski | and they use their +hit talents :) |
| 09:18.42 | olafski | did you get gear crafted? enchants? I did nothing :P |
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| 09:18.42 | DWSR | olafski: You need 263 hit rating to hard cap (no talents). I need 368 _after_ talents. |
| 09:18.42 | olafski | I know how the game works.. anyway, the culling begins, back in 25 minutes |
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| 09:27.05 | airtonix | http://www.sevenforums.com/attachments/chillout-room/27390d1252629276-tron-legacy-lightcycle.jpg |
| 09:27.14 | airtonix | nomnomnom |
| 09:27.24 | Arrowmaster | i want one |
| 09:27.38 | DWSR | Me too |
| 09:27.47 | airtonix | http://madedigital.co.uk/no_legacy/tron_legacy.jpg |
| 09:27.51 | DWSR | Aren't they supposed to be remaking Tron? |
| 09:27.56 | Arrowmaster | they are |
| 09:27.57 | airtonix | yes |
| 09:28.06 | DWSR | wtb linkeh |
| 09:28.08 | airtonix | its a pretty sweet sneak preview video too |
| 09:28.16 | airtonix | on apple trailers i believe |
| 09:28.21 | Arrowmaster | coming out late 2010 |
| 09:29.01 | airtonix | http://www.apple.com/trailers/disney/tronlegacy/ |
| 09:29.23 | Arrowmaster | and a new video game thats supposed to tie in with the movie a lot more than any of the other obligatory shitty attempt at raking in more cash games from movies do |
| 09:30.16 | DWSR | Daft Punk is doing the soundtrack? |
| 09:30.18 | DWSR | Oh shit. |
| 09:30.44 | airtonix | http://disney.go.com/tron/?cmp=dcom_BAC_Tron_franchise_redirect_Extl |
| 09:32.18 | airtonix | that effect they have onthe faces inthe helmets is nice |
| 09:32.35 | Arrowmaster | a light cycle game that you dont have to drive in straight lines would kickass, could total fuck people up |
| 09:33.06 | DWSR | Arrowmaster: Yeah, I remember playing the Tron game. |
| 09:33.08 | DWSR | Right angles >.< |
| 09:34.17 | airtonix | who is the actor in the green ? |
| 09:34.30 | airtonix | is it the same guy up in the cliff face apartment ? |
| 09:34.36 | DWSR | no |
| 09:34.49 | airtonix | thought so but they are incredibly familiar to each other |
| 09:34.54 | airtonix | similar * |
| 09:35.03 | DWSR | Electronic music duo Daft Punk will be composing the film score. <- Fuck. Yes. |
| 09:35.06 | airtonix | like older version of the younger |
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| 09:36.02 | airtonix | http://www.scifi.co.uk/news/2009/07/comic-con-first-look-at-new-tron-motorbike/ |
| 09:37.01 | airtonix | tron was the original matrix |
| 09:37.28 | DWSR | indeed. |
| 09:37.31 | DWSR | But still. |
| 09:37.35 | DWSR | DAFT PUNK SOUNDTRACK? HELL YES. |
| 09:37.56 | airtonix | <clean up towel on channel five> |
| 09:40.10 | DWSR | lol |
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| 09:44.22 | airtonix | oh sweet, nautilus does font thumbnails again (stupidity of removing gnome-thumbnail-font in previous version of gnome was epic) |
| 09:45.14 | DWSR | stupidity of gnome is epic. |
| 09:45.16 | DWSR | ;) |
| 09:54.52 | airtonix | DWSR, i agree sometimes. |
| 09:55.21 | airtonix | lack of obvious and clear documentation is a first |
| 09:58.29 | *** topic/#wowuidev by Cairenn -> http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ | 3.3.x ToC: 30300 | #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting | Happy Birthday jnwhitehead! |
| 09:59.13 | zenzio | lol |
| 09:59.28 | zenzio | happy birthday jnwhiteh |
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| 10:06.15 | zenzio | ah, Slashdot... "I play Counter-Strike 1.6 in in 1920x1080 using OpenGL mode on my Mac." > "You openly admit this?" |
| 10:06.55 | DWSR | rofl |
| 10:10.51 | Kalroth | Silly Mac users, they continue to believe that they're socially acceptable. |
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| 10:23.31 | Jerub | as a druid bear tank, should i make sure to be over the 8% hit cap, or doesn't it matter so much? |
| 10:24.05 | DWSR | Jerub: You should try and make sure that you're hit capped always, whenever you're tanking/DPSing. |
| 10:24.22 | Jerub | sigh. i'm 60 short of the raid hitcap |
| 10:24.35 | Jerub | 4T9 = no hit ca |
| 10:24.35 | DWSR | Jerub: However, for tanking it's less of an issue, your threat generation will suffer, but it doesn't affect your survivability any. |
| 10:24.49 | Wobin | do you find yourself struggling for threat? |
| 10:26.14 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 10:26.23 | DWSR | (Tip: The answer should definitely be no) |
| 10:29.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (n=dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 10:30.04 | Jerub | the answer is no. |
| 10:30.26 | DWSR | then don't worry about your hit rating |
| 10:30.49 | Jerub | it's just i upgraded my 2T8.5 to 4T9, and the hat and chest i've just gotten both have yellow slots, and my old chest had +60 hit |
| 10:31.10 | Jerub | which means even if I throw two +20 hit gems in, i'm 20 under hit cap AND i'm wasting valuable stam or agil slots |
| 10:31.35 | DWSR | Jerub: If you're not having threat issues, then don't worry about it, like I said. |
| 10:31.51 | DWSR | Jerub: Just because you're under capped doesn't neccessarily mean that you'll have issues, though in fights with a lot of tank swapping you might find it to be a PITA. |
| 10:32.31 | DWSR | Jerub: Unless you have a ~ilvl 232 lock in your raid, your threat gen's probably fine |
| 10:32.42 | DWSR | Which by the way, I need to yell at GC about. |
| 10:32.50 | DWSR | Warlock threat is so unbelievably broken it's not even funny. |
| 10:33.06 | Jerub | heh |
| 10:33.07 | DWSR | I can pull 8k TPS in T9.25 equivalent gear. |
| 10:33.27 | Grum | its not broken! just do less dps ;) |
| 10:33.35 | DWSR | I ranged tank worms in ToGC25 and my threat gen broke 13k. >.> |
| 10:33.52 | DWSR | Our guild's MTs were like...."epeen envy" |
| 10:34.11 | Grum | what spec? |
| 10:34.18 | DWSR | Destro 0/13/58 pre 3.3 |
| 10:34.36 | Grum | spamming .. humz whats it called |
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| 10:34.41 | Grum | that +tps spell thingie? :D |
| 10:34.44 | DWSR | No. |
| 10:34.47 | DWSR | That was just normal DPS. |
| 10:34.49 | Jerub | think haste is worth it? |
| 10:34.56 | DWSR | Jerub: You're a bear. No. |
| 10:34.58 | Grum | how much dps would you do? |
| 10:35.02 | DWSR | Grum: ~6.5k |
| 10:35.05 | Jerub | k, good |
| 10:35.09 | Grum | that is just weird indeed :D |
| 10:35.21 | Grum | hunters are also like that |
| 10:35.27 | DWSR | Grum: lol, I took no points in Supression, though, I'll admit. |
| 10:35.43 | Grum | that was 10% back then right? 30% now? |
| 10:35.43 | DWSR | Since I was ranged tanking, a point in Molten Skin was much more beneficial. |
| 10:35.46 | DWSR | No. |
| 10:35.53 | DWSR | It was 5%/point then. Now it's 10%/point. |
| 10:36.07 | Grum | how many points go in it? :D |
| 10:36.13 | DWSR | Normally 1. |
| 10:36.20 | Grum | max? 2? |
| 10:36.22 | DWSR | Yes. |
| 10:36.28 | DWSR | Highest DPS spec takes 1. |
| 10:36.37 | Grum | bad-tank-spec takes 2 : |
| 10:36.51 | Grum | still tps of locks/hunters is quite insane |
| 10:36.58 | Grum | spriests are getting high as well atm |
| 10:37.20 | Grum | but that is more due to a lack to dump it than anything else |
| 10:37.35 | DWSR | Grum: A proper dump, yes. |
| 10:37.57 | DWSR | Though, Hunters have Misdirect. 4 seconds of aggro-free DPS time where all threat is transferred to the tank. =\ |
| 10:37.57 | Jerub | sigh. i think i've made some poor decisions |
| 10:38.10 | DWSR | Locks have...Soul Shatter. =\ |
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| 10:38.12 | Jerub | the two ulduar 25 man hat and chest are better than these 232 pieces. |
| 10:38.25 | DWSR | Jerub: So get 245 then |
| 10:39.10 | Jerub | i'm thinking of getting the 232 T9 hat and the 245 chest instead |
| 10:39.19 | Jerub | but that's 3-4 days of emblem farming away |
| 10:39.25 | zenzio | <Grum> spriests are getting high as well atm <-- drugs are bad, m'kay? |
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| 10:55.35 | Kaso | hunters and threat piss me off, they all seem to act as ive every trash pull in the instance has a hard enrage timer so there's noway they can waste a whole global cooldown on their threat dump! |
| 10:56.26 | Grum | DWSR: soulshatter is really useful when you can use it at the right time :) |
| 10:56.27 | zenzio | that's a generalisation, but yeah |
| 10:56.39 | Grum | Kaso: easily solved |
| 10:56.57 | Grum | ignore the mob, mob hits hunter, hunter FDs, you get mob back |
| 10:57.00 | Kaso | lol |
| 10:57.08 | DWSR | Grum: Soulshatter does not help in situations like Icehowl, trust me. |
| 10:57.13 | Grum | DWSR: aye :) |
| 10:57.22 | DWSR | Grum: as Destro, I had to have paladins salv me. |
| 10:57.31 | Grum | yeah i have the same problem as spriest right now :( |
| 10:57.56 | Grum | i have to beg for innervates (hey dispersion is 6 seconds of no dps wtf :D) |
| 10:57.59 | DWSR | I was pulling a natural 15k TPS on Icehowl, I stood at max caster range and soulshattered as soon as the stun wore off, next round I had paladins salv me because I was going to fucking pull AGAIN |
| 10:58.04 | Grum | and hand of salvations are getting closer and closer |
| 10:58.16 | Grum | your tank also sucks then |
| 10:58.18 | zenzio | Grum's getting close to pulling aggro, quick, Divine Intervention! |
| 10:58.26 | DWSR | Grum: Has nothing to do with that. He pulls 6k TPS naturally. |
| 10:58.42 | Grum | on my tramp-dk i can easily pull 13-14k tps when he's stunned |
| 10:59.13 | DWSR | Grum: It's just that you can't beat a destro lock in threat when I've got BL + Lightweave + Ele sham tot + trinket use. |
| 10:59.22 | zenzio | DKs do huge threat while stunned? Nerf! |
| 10:59.22 | Grum | you can? |
| 10:59.22 | DWSR | It's like 1.5k extra spellpower, plus I'm at haste cap. |
| 10:59.44 | DWSR | Grum: lol, haven't seen it happen. I got Vigilance from that point on in P3. |
| 10:59.47 | Grum | bloodtank with heroism+hysteria and a mob taking +50% dmg .. oh yeah =) |
| 10:59.56 | DWSR | Grum: Nah, can't beat me. |
| 11:00.02 | Grum | not beat |
| 11:00.08 | Grum | but keep far enough ahead |
| 11:00.20 | DWSR | Grum: lol, trust me, our OT was blood, couldn't do it. I probably out geared him a bit though |
| 11:00.30 | DWSR | Grum: P3 is a threat nightmare. I'm glad I'm demo now. |
| 11:00.33 | DWSR | No more threat problems. |
| 11:00.48 | Grum | mmm i havent had problems and had mages/locks doing 7-8k dps |
| 11:00.49 | DWSR | Icehowl is so rediculous once the sub 35% stun comes as demo. |
| 11:00.59 | Grum | yeah lol |
| 11:01.07 | DWSR | LOL BL + DP + META + IMMO AURA + SF SPAM |
| 11:01.24 | DWSR | Fun to watch ~40k crits on a 1.4 sceond cast. |
| 11:01.28 | DWSR | second* |
| 11:01.44 | DWSR | My highest crit is 96k as Demonology during Hodir in 25m. |
| 11:02.01 | Grum | i had a 56k shadowword death crit |
| 11:02.09 | Grum | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:02.09 | nevcairiel | and you died? |
| 11:02.11 | nevcairiel | :P |
| 11:02.25 | Grum | and overkilled by ~250hp orso |
| 11:02.34 | Grum | shield+25k hp wasnt enough :( |
| 11:03.09 | Grum | but i'm quite happy where spriests are now |
| 11:03.41 | Grum | 'easy' 7k dps single target vs 'hard 6k' |
| 11:03.49 | Kaso | i bet that the average priest's death-count while leveling goes up significantly once he gets SW:D |
| 11:03.59 | Grum | mwha not really |
| 11:04.06 | Grum | while leveling the spell barely hits |
| 11:04.23 | DWSR | Grum: lol, about as bad as when I crit myself for 25k in H FoS on the first mobs. |
| 11:04.26 | Grum | and if you level its usually swp;flay;flay;flay;flay;flay;maketeagetpie;flay;flay |
| 11:04.33 | DWSR | I popped Meta and my trinket and went ROCK ON and then died. |
| 11:04.43 | Grum | :P |
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| 11:05.58 | DWSR | But yeah, hitting 6k SP while you're in a raid during BL is hotsauce. |
| 11:06.13 | DWSR | Especially when that 6k SP turns into 600 SP for every spellcaster in the raid. |
| 11:06.32 | DWSR | Apparently, during BL, my DPS contribution to the raid goes up to something stupid like 20k |
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| 11:08.55 | DWSR | being the spellpower bitch isn't a bad deal. |
| 11:09.23 | DWSR | My personal DPS requirements for my raid spot drop to essentially 0, and my raid spot security remains unaffected. |
| 11:09.41 | DWSR | Also I get higher priority on loot that's a massive +sp upgrade, since it's got returns as raid SP as well. |
| 11:09.58 | DWSR | I watch movies during raid now. |
| 11:10.12 | nevcairiel | Just waiting until another SP comes along that also does good DPS on his own =p |
| 11:10.25 | nevcairiel | or lock for that matter |
| 11:11.32 | DWSR | nevcairiel: No locks play demo unless they're in a guild that requires them to. |
| 11:11.42 | DWSR | nevcairiel: s/No/Very few/ |
| 11:12.28 | DWSR | nevcairiel: The locks who are Demo are normally that because of their guild. When app'ing to another guild, they generally want combat log parses, and big DPS numbers look good. Demo isn't big DPS numbers. |
| 11:13.07 | DWSR | nevcairiel: Also, most Demo locks have a personal DPS offspec, which is what they'll apply as. |
| 11:14.00 | DWSR | We've had a few locks apply to my guild, 1 got in and now raids Affliction, the others either didn't make the cut or are casual. The GM has said that 2 locks are enough, and he knows that I can perform well in raids. |
| 11:14.07 | DWSR | So I totally slack when we're not on boss fights. |
| 11:14.27 | DWSR | /petattack /cast Seed of Corruption /watch movie |
| 11:14.58 | zenzio | I remember when we brought three warlocks for Morogrim |
| 11:16.02 | DWSR | zenzio: I remember when raids stacked warlocks because they did amazing DPS. |
| 11:16.34 | DWSR | And by amazing I mean /cats summon Succubus, /cast Demonic Sacrifice, while 1 neq 0 /cast Shadowbolt. |
| 11:17.00 | DWSR | Oh, and let's not forget summoning 40 people 1 at a time. |
| 11:17.02 | DWSR | Or healthstones. |
| 11:17.16 | zenzio | we had some aggro trouble with murlocs when we started learning Morogrim, so our tactic became all warlocks life tap before murlocs, and only one single paladin (with Righteous Fury on) would heal them when the murlocs came |
| 11:17.28 | zenzio | then Seed of Corruption spam and fun times |
| 11:17.48 | DWSR | SoC. |
| 11:17.51 | DWSR | The best spell in the game. |
| 11:18.05 | DWSR | ICC trash I can now pull 10k DPS |
| 11:18.06 | DWSR | :D |
| 11:18.14 | Jerub | phew |
| 11:18.14 | DWSR | Purely from SoC spam + FG cleave |
| 11:18.18 | Jerub | HHoR down |
| 11:18.25 | Jerub | and i was placed in it by random |
| 11:18.40 | zenzio | I really want to get back into raiding, but as a tank all the good guilds want 38k+ HP unbuffed |
| 11:18.59 | zenzio | without running Ulduar and/or ToTC, I'm still short of that in Triumph gear |
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| 11:19.35 | DWSR | zenzio: Stam stack. |
| 11:19.37 | Jerub | zenzio: just snap at them and say you've got plenty of mitigation |
| 11:19.43 | DWSR | Avoidance is useless anyway now. |
| 11:19.44 | zenzio | DWSR: I do |
| 11:19.46 | Jerub | and that stacking stam is for noobs |
| 11:19.50 | Jerub | DWSR: lolwat? |
| 11:19.51 | DWSR | rofl, you can't hit 38k? |
| 11:20.04 | zenzio | some item slots just don't have upgrades outside of raids |
| 11:20.07 | DWSR | Jerub: 20% nerf to dodge? Avoidance is useless. |
| 11:20.11 | DWSR | zenzio: lies. |
| 11:20.20 | DWSR | Between triumph, conquest, and frost, you can upgrade every single piece. |
| 11:20.49 | zenzio | Frost, sure, but those come slowly when people don't want you for those raids :-p |
| 11:21.00 | zenzio | Conquest help, but they're still short |
| 11:21.30 | olafski | I'm still with jerub |
| 11:21.35 | Jerub | zenzio: triumph flow like mana from the heavens |
| 11:21.37 | zenzio | I'm spending my Titansteel cooldowns to have the bracers and chest made, that'll help |
| 11:21.53 | zenzio | Jerub: I know, but what I'm saying is I've got all the triumph gear that are upgrades to me |
| 11:22.41 | DWSR | zenzio: Get some PvP gear then. |
| 11:23.06 | DWSR | If you don't have defense in the slot, get the PvP gear piece that goes on it. They have a ton of stamina. |
| 11:23.28 | DWSR | zenzio: Also, good guilds don't care what your HP total is, as long as you can prove that you know what you're doing. |
| 11:23.31 | zenzio | I've got defense in just about every slot, but I could cut down on those |
| 11:24.03 | zenzio | DWSR: you're probably right; I should just apply and not ask them in-game... I'm sure they have their share of poor people ask that way |
| 11:25.47 | olafski | I really can't be bothered to calculate, but I hear people saying "-20% dodge means avoidance sucks" and "-20% dodge means avoidance is better now" |
| 11:26.13 | DWSR | olafski: Both are true. |
| 11:26.28 | olafski | I'll just stick with the latter then |
| 11:26.41 | DWSR | olafski: If you have >20% dodge (as some tanks do), then dodge rating is massively better. |
| 11:26.41 | olafski | woot I now have an item in every slot |
| 11:26.54 | olafski | I have 23% dodge with my scrub gear :D |
| 11:27.03 | DWSR | olafski: If you have <20% dodge, then the EP of dodge takes a rediculous nose dive. |
| 11:27.10 | DWSR | Since you have to stack dodge for no benefit. |
| 11:27.20 | [SW]Dodge | >.< |
| 11:27.22 | airtonix | lol "all scottish people are called jimmy" |
| 11:27.29 | [SW]Dodge | please stop talking about dodge xD |
| 11:27.33 | olafski | :P |
| 11:27.33 | DWSR | lol |
| 11:27.40 | DWSR | Get a more specific highlight trigger. |
| 11:27.45 | olafski | change your hilight to only include [sw]dodge |
| 11:27.58 | olafski | 32.3k hp unbuffed.. I'm satisfied |
| 11:28.03 | olafski | oh wait that's buffed |
| 11:28.09 | [SW]Dodge | can i set hl trigger per server? :/ |
| 11:28.27 | [SW]Dodge | in mirc :D |
| 11:28.30 | DWSR | No. |
| 11:28.36 | [SW]Dodge | damn :D |
| 11:29.03 | DWSR | [SW]Dodge: well, you can, just not easily. |
| 11:29.23 | DWSR | olafski: Anyway, right now stam stacking is marginally better than avoidance stacking in ICC. |
| 11:29.34 | olafski | it's a non argument for me anyway |
| 11:29.36 | olafski | I don't raid |
| 11:29.38 | DWSR | olafski: Indeed. |
| 11:29.44 | olafski | I like avoidance and I will keep using it :P |
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| 11:30.18 | zenzio | I'm pretty curious to see how things will be for warrior tanks in Cataclysm... I've always been a fan of some amount of defense (over the crit cap) over just avoidance |
| 11:30.43 | olafski | pretty easy to calculate whether defense or avoidance is better |
| 11:30.57 | zenzio | going from my Naxx25/EoE25/OS25 gear to Triumph, I seem to have lost a fair bit of hit rating |
| 11:31.16 | olafski | what class are .. wait, warrior I guess :P |
| 11:31.22 | zenzio | quite |
| 11:31.36 | olafski | my tank weapon has 96 hit rating.. loving it |
| 11:31.39 | olafski | but I guess I will replace it sometime |
| 11:31.54 | zenzio | I'm not having trouble as a result, it just irks me |
| 11:32.29 | olafski | http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Dragonblight&n=Deathski :) |
| 11:33.14 | zenzio | hm... http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Draenor&n=Warlow |
| 11:33.28 | olafski | hey your tooltips show up properly |
| 11:33.36 | olafski | oh mine do too now |
| 11:33.43 | olafski | before I opened your profile they would show only half the information |
| 11:34.25 | olafski | get the trinket from totc5 normal |
| 11:34.40 | olafski | replacing repelling charge if possible |
| 11:34.43 | zenzio | that's the 127 stamina one or so? |
| 11:34.53 | olafski | yeah |
| 11:35.05 | olafski | I usually have that on |
| 11:35.08 | olafski | but mr chinese vendored it ;p |
| 11:35.12 | zenzio | yeah, had some bad luck with that, but that one would help. Don't really need the Repelling Charge anymore |
| 11:35.51 | olafski | indeed |
| 11:35.55 | olafski | it has a nice proc too |
| 11:37.29 | olafski | I think I had about 33-34k unbuffed when I have all my gear |
| 11:37.41 | olafski | I still need 4 triumph items and 2 from the new heroics |
| 11:40.27 | zenzio | I wish I hadn't been gone during beerfest, so I could have got those stamina trinkets |
| 11:41.46 | olafski | yeah they are nice too if you really only want stamina |
| 11:42.30 | zenzio | if I'm going to be using stamina trinkets anyway, I'd prefer the best ones :-p |
| 11:45.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Aelobin (n=Aelobin@88.110.67.186) |
| 11:47.33 | Adys | cogwheel: http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2009/12/psychology-climate-change-denial/ |
| 11:52.29 | olafski | zenzio: the best ones aren't from brewfest ;) |
| 11:53.36 | zenzio | olafski: no, but those would be easier than the ones from the raids |
| 11:53.49 | zenzio | (to get) |
| 11:55.31 | olafski | yeah probably |
| 11:55.33 | olafski | not now though =) |
| 11:55.38 | olafski | next year they're probably +300 sta ;) |
| 11:56.00 | olafski | my authenticator shipped.. 8-10 days :< |
| 11:56.15 | zenzio | it's just that people on my realm don't seem to be doing PUG raids on Ulduar/ToTC much right now |
| 11:56.53 | olafski | oh they do it here all the time |
| 11:56.59 | olafski | I see pugs going to ICC rep farming now |
| 11:57.06 | olafski | shame I have no time, even at friendly that ring would be nice |
| 11:57.07 | zenzio | yeah, I see those too |
| 11:57.20 | olafski | dunno how much rep farming it would require |
| 11:57.28 | olafski | but ilvl 251 beats whatever I have |
| 11:57.29 | zenzio | but I don't do rep farming runs... I'd get bored very fast |
| 11:57.35 | olafski | 213 +) |
| 11:57.42 | olafski | heh I'm an achievement whore |
| 11:59.42 | olafski | hm. 10 dodge/15 sta with 6sta socket bonus or 30 sta with no socket bonus :< |
| 11:59.49 | olafski | I'm still inclined to go for the former |
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| 12:04.51 | Aelobin | i wish there was a melee dps ring with strength on >_> |
| 12:04.55 | Aelobin | tis always agility |
| 12:08.18 | Kalroth | why? |
| 12:08.55 | zenzio | warriors don't like agility |
| 12:09.02 | Kalroth | the physical items are usually better since they got 4 stats instead of 3 |
| 12:09.15 | Kalroth | all the best in slot rings for warriors are agi rings |
| 12:10.00 | Aelobin | as a DK i'd prefer strength :P ofc agility aint bad but that means certain classes are gettnig more AP outta it than me |
| 12:10.19 | Kalroth | You're a DK, it's okay! |
| 12:11.33 | krka | A Dkdkdk? |
| 12:14.58 | Aelobin | dkdkdk! |
| 12:20.46 | airtonix | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIFCV2spKtg |
| 12:21.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Random (n=Denial@unaffiliated/windaria) |
| 12:21.57 | airtonix | http://liquidrescale.wikidot.com/en:examples |
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| 12:40.21 | airtonix | http://www.mmiworks.net/eng/publications/2009/09/gimp-single-mode.html |
| 12:45.38 | zenzio | interesting |
| 12:48.09 | airtonix | on one hand i like that the window parts of gimp are separate (because it means that with compiz i can make far more use with them via the window rules module) but on the other hand.... without compiz...they are fairly cumbersome |
| 12:49.05 | cbreak | photoshop has lots of tiny paletes too |
| 12:49.23 | cbreak | it's the normal way applications are on OS X |
| 12:49.37 | cbreak | and I guess gimp got inspired from the mac version of photoshop? |
| 12:49.47 | airtonix | you don't have the kind of features compiz brings on macosx or windows though |
| 12:49.52 | airtonix | so its still annoying |
| 12:49.58 | cbreak | which features? |
| 12:50.22 | cbreak | main reason gimp is anoying here is that it's in X11 |
| 12:50.48 | airtonix | compiz has featuers that make window management and handling much easier |
| 12:50.53 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 12:51.05 | cbreak | window management IS easy |
| 12:51.08 | airtonix | its a double edge sword though |
| 12:51.11 | cbreak | (exposé rocks) |
| 12:52.08 | airtonix | yeah compiz has that (its just called 'tile plugin') |
| 12:52.30 | airtonix | or is it scale...i forget |
| 12:52.56 | cbreak | it's a bit strange that the toolbox windows aren't always on top |
| 12:53.47 | zenzio | after working with Xcode for 6+ months, I was very relieved to discover the F10 button feature... think that's part of Exposé? |
| 12:54.12 | cbreak | I forgot the original key bindings, but possibly |
| 12:54.23 | cbreak | shows all windows of this app nicely besides each other? |
| 12:54.27 | zenzio | yes |
| 12:54.34 | cbreak | indeed |
| 12:54.47 | cbreak | Spaces is great too |
| 12:54.57 | cbreak | Linux users probably know that since many many years |
| 12:55.26 | zenzio | yeah, I like that too |
| 12:55.45 | cbreak | I had to work with windows a lot this year |
| 12:55.52 | zenzio | considering how much of my time I spend working on iPhone apps, I hope my boss will cave and get me a proper iMac, so I can ditch this Mini |
| 12:56.07 | cbreak | was quite painful with my habit to open hundreds of windows until I found a multi v-screen tool |
| 12:56.26 | zenzio | which version of Windows did you work on? |
| 12:56.38 | cbreak | likes his Mac Pro |
| 12:56.48 | zenzio | I totally want this for christmas... http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.22175 |
| 12:56.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 12:57.12 | cbreak | what's that good for? |
| 12:57.21 | zenzio | in reality, not much :-p |
| 12:57.33 | zenzio | if I understood it correctly, you bind it to some key |
| 12:58.13 | zenzio | DealExtreme has so much junk |
| 12:58.29 | cbreak | I'd like this one: http://www.wacom.com/bamboo/bamboo_pen_touch.php |
| 12:58.39 | cbreak | gestures on a desktop computer! |
| 12:59.14 | zenzio | hm... that does look pretty interesting |
| 12:59.34 | cbreak | there are versions without the pen or touch, but this seems like the best |
| 12:59.47 | cbreak | only problem is that I read some negative opinions on it's touch drivers |
| 13:00.31 | cbreak | I used Windows XP by the way. It was a hospital, very slow with updating |
| 13:03.21 | DWSR | zenzio: It's good for lots, it just depends on if it's useful to your particular use case. |
| 13:03.45 | zenzio | probably, yeah |
| 13:04.02 | DWSR | cbreak: I have a multi-touch tablet PC. |
| 13:04.05 | DWSR | cbreak: It's much win |
| 13:04.11 | DWSR | well, the touch and tablet parts, anyway. |
| 13:04.20 | DWSR | there aren't many multi-touch aware applications. |
| 13:04.28 | cbreak | we had some pen-controlled HP laptops |
| 13:04.34 | cbreak | they caused trouble without end |
| 13:04.51 | cbreak | (I was user support, so I got to hear people moaning about jumping mice on their desktop) |
| 13:04.59 | DWSR | I haven't had a problem with mine yet |
| 13:05.07 | cbreak | probably not a HP :) |
| 13:05.12 | DWSR | cbreak:It is. |
| 13:05.16 | cbreak | good luck! |
| 13:05.19 | cbreak | you'll need it |
| 13:05.38 | cbreak | we sent 20% of them back for repairs |
| 13:05.50 | cbreak | and disabled the touch screen on an other 20% |
| 13:05.58 | DWSR | cbreak: I haven't had a problem with it so far. |
| 13:06.10 | cbreak | (they were a bit older though, so maybe it was a systematic problem that's fixed in yours) |
| 13:06.13 | DWSR | cbreak: Mobo died on my previous laptop though, just over 2 years. |
| 13:06.23 | DWSR | cbreak: This new one seems to be fantastic, though. |
| 13:06.28 | DWSR | W7 on here, purrs right along. |
| 13:06.33 | cbreak | yuck |
| 13:06.44 | cbreak | ah well, better than vista I guess |
| 13:06.51 | DWSR | cbreak: Don't like W7? :( |
| 13:07.00 | cbreak | I don't like anything from microsoft |
| 13:07.09 | cbreak | apart from their research papers |
| 13:07.15 | Thrae | Hmm, how does one check to see what svn revision an untagged release is from? |
| 13:07.21 | zenzio | out of principle, or because you've not yet found a product you like? |
| 13:07.23 | DWSR | cbreak: If you're a mac user, I pity your soul. |
| 13:07.29 | cbreak | I have no soul |
| 13:07.35 | DWSR | You must be a mac user. |
| 13:07.46 | cbreak | zenzelezz: both |
| 13:07.47 | DWSR | Thrae: The .svn folder might hold a clue? |
| 13:08.03 | Thrae | DWSR: Smart archivers skip that, as is the case. |
| 13:08.07 | cbreak | does svn log show anything? |
| 13:08.15 | DWSR | Thrae: Did you not svn co? |
| 13:08.15 | Thrae | cbreak: No, not in this case. |
| 13:08.26 | cbreak | so you get to svn checkout |
| 13:08.29 | cbreak | and diff with each revision |
| 13:08.33 | cbreak | yay |
| 13:08.37 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 13:08.44 | Thrae | DWSR: A RELEASE, as in a zipped release on a website. |
| 13:09.07 | DWSR | Thrae: what cbreak said. You're SOL without some additional files. |
| 13:09.36 | cbreak | if you want to do it brute force |
| 13:09.46 | cbreak | you could make an aggregated hash of the whole tree |
| 13:09.59 | cbreak | and then make a shell script that goes back through svn history |
| 13:10.01 | cbreak | and does the same |
| 13:10.02 | zenzio | generates an aggravated hash |
| 13:10.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Stew_a (n=Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 13:10.20 | DWSR | cbreak: Couldn't you just use a for loop in bash and run svn co <revision number> then diff it? |
| 13:10.27 | DWSR | And just look at diff's output? |
| 13:10.40 | DWSR | Slightly less elegant, but simple. |
| 13:10.50 | cbreak | hmm, probably |
| 13:10.51 | Thrae | Thankfully I know between which two revisions it's from, so I don't have to check the entire tree. |
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| 13:11.02 | cbreak | but hashing has less HD thrashing. Maybe |
| 13:11.11 | cbreak | since you only read the compare dir once |
| 13:11.22 | DWSR | cbreak: Trut |
| 13:11.24 | DWSR | Truth* |
| 13:11.25 | zenzio | Thrae: out of curiosity, why do you need to determine the revision? |
| 13:11.39 | cbreak | probably to tag it :) |
| 13:12.31 | DWSR | Thrae: Stupid question, but is the author using the svn tools for their respective website (assuming that it's on Curse or WoWI)? |
| 13:12.45 | DWSR | Thrae: Because all releases _should_ be tagged. |
| 13:13.03 | Thrae | zenzio: Well, in truth this is unrelated to WoW. It's for libtorrent, where the author released 0.12.2 (and 0.12.3) without tagging it. The patches I have for my system are all for 0.12.2 and I can't get them to compile with 0.12.6, so I want to try a merge until I can compile. |
| 13:13.29 | Thrae | Well the author was good in tagging every single release except 0.12.2 and 0.12.3 |
| 13:13.32 | cbreak | doesn't tag releases because each commit in git is a release anyway |
| 13:13.34 | DWSR | Thrae: What are the patches trying to do ? |
| 13:13.52 | DWSR | cbreak: Being able to tag stuff as releases isn't a bad idea, imo. |
| 13:14.09 | Thrae | DWSR: Allow it to compile properly and work with Solaris. |
| 13:14.47 | airtonix | ok abck to my original thing about compiz and window resizing : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_abKUnTg4s |
| 13:14.47 | DWSR | Thrae: Use a better OS? |
| 13:15.22 | airtonix | video is rather quick but in there you'll see me resizing windows without actually gripping the edges |
| 13:15.32 | Thrae | Solaris IS a better OS, just not for projects designed specifically for Linux ;) |
| 13:15.33 | airtonix | can macosx or windows do this ? |
| 13:15.41 | cbreak | sure |
| 13:15.48 | cbreak | exposé does this since ages |
| 13:15.54 | cbreak | since before compiz existed :) |
| 13:16.01 | airtonix | how ? |
| 13:16.07 | *** join/#wowuidev ZorbaTHut (i=tocohl@maximilian.pavlovian.net) |
| 13:16.12 | cbreak | what do you mean "how"? |
| 13:16.21 | cbreak | OS X has system controlled window frame buffers |
| 13:16.24 | airtonix | do you actually understand what i mean ? |
| 13:16.32 | DWSR | Thrae: Do you desperately need 0.12.6? |
| 13:16.34 | cbreak | aggregates those to OpenGL textures, which then get composed by Quartz |
| 13:16.38 | DWSR | Or can you just make do with 0.12.2? |
| 13:16.39 | airtonix | because its not a feature i've seen on macos |
| 13:17.58 | Thrae | DWSR: The BitTorrent protocol is not easy to code for and each release has serious fixes, improvements, and many new features. |
| 13:19.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (n=chatzill@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
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| 13:19.38 | Kraps | http://xkcd.com/676/ |
| 13:20.03 | DWSR | Kraps: Welcome to yesterday. ;) |
| 13:21.11 | zenzio | so I typed "is " into Google, and the first two suggestions are "is lady gaga a man (28,800,000 results)" and "is lady gaga a hermaphrodite (338,000 results)"... |
| 13:22.02 | DWSR | How the fuck is the results delta between the first and second suggestion 2 orders of magnitude? |
| 13:22.04 | Grum | didnt google base it on your own search history? ;P |
| 13:22.32 | DWSR | Grum: No. |
| 13:22.39 | zenzio | proceeded to type "is it ", and the third suggestion from bottom is "is it wrong to sleep with your sister (27,300,000 results)" |
| 13:22.57 | Grum | i wonder what the answers are |
| 13:22.58 | zenzio | if humanity scared me before, things just escalated |
| 13:23.06 | DWSR | zenzio: I typed in "is " and I got is lady gaga a man and is the world going to end in 2012 |
| 13:23.43 | zenzio | DWSR: the suggestions seem to vary a bit between different Google servers (I use the Norwegian one). Could also be data centers or something |
| 13:23.46 | Grum | i got "is santa real" .. :( |
| 13:23.57 | DWSR | zenzio: "is it " returns "is it down" and "is it normal to shave your pubic hair" |
| 13:24.12 | zenzio | yeah, saw those too |
| 13:24.13 | mikma | i got "Isku" and "Isohunt", and Isku is a furniture-shop |
| 13:24.24 | zenzio | you left out the space after "is" |
| 13:24.29 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 13:24.40 | mikma | heh... |
| 13:24.43 | Grum | and 'is it possible to curve a bullet' (no its not) |
| 13:24.44 | DWSR | zenzio: "why " returns "why is my poop green" and "why do men have nipples" |
| 13:24.52 | zenzio | oh god... "is it normal " -> third suggestion... "is it normal to bleed after being fingered (25,600 results)" |
| 13:24.55 | DWSR | and "why does my vag smell" |
| 13:25.04 | DWSR | zenzio: Yeah, I saw that one too for "is it" |
| 13:25.05 | mikma | "is liigapörssi" and "is ravit" (leaguemarket?) (horserace) |
| 13:25.10 | Grum | 'how ' gives 'how to get pregnant' :P |
| 13:25.19 | Jerub | i love that game |
| 13:25.28 | DWSR | Grum: mine gives "how to lose weight fast" |
| 13:25.42 | mikma | IS is a short version of "Iltasanomat" ('eveningnewspaper') |
| 13:26.03 | Grum | "Where " is chuck norris :P |
| 13:26.31 | DWSR | "where " is "where does justin beiber live" |
| 13:26.44 | DWSR | For anyone who doesn't know, Justin Bieber should be shot |
| 13:27.35 | Kalroth | hahah, try "why" |
| 13:27.46 | DWSR | Kalroth: Already did. |
| 13:27.48 | Kalroth | oh DWSR did that |
| 13:27.52 | Kalroth | blood scrollback |
| 13:28.54 | DWSR | ROFL |
| 13:28.54 | Kalroth | "which" .. twilight character are you! |
| 13:29.01 | DWSR | "when " does the morning sickness start? |
| 13:29.33 | Kalroth | "whom" whoomp there it is |
| 13:29.53 | DWSR | lol |
| 13:29.57 | DWSR | Use a space, silly. |
| 13:30.04 | zenzio | "who " -> "who moved my cheese" |
| 13:30.05 | DWSR | "which " |
| 13:30.08 | DWSR | rofl |
| 13:30.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy_ (n=Lopeppep@141.222.29.18) |
| 13:30.26 | zenzio | hai peppy! |
| 13:30.28 | DWSR | http://textsfromlastnight.com/ |
| 13:30.29 | DWSR | imo |
| 13:30.38 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (n=chatzill@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 13:30.40 | Lopeppeppy_ | Oh hi. BRB |
| 13:30.47 | DWSR | http://textsfromlastnight.com/view/56360 <- ROFL |
| 13:31.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@141.222.29.18) |
| 13:31.07 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 13:31.21 | zenzio | clearly an easier solution than asking |
| 13:31.28 | zenzio | although perhaps less embarrassing |
| 13:31.59 | olafski | [14:31:23] [2] [Wolfyman]: lf tank healer and 2 dps for all 3 new hc ?? |
| 13:32.00 | olafski | sigh |
| 13:32.01 | DWSR | http://textsfromlastnight.com/view/56346 <- wow |
| 13:33.01 | DWSR | http://textsfromlastnight.com/view/56333 <-- And I'm out. |
| 13:33.34 | Gnarfoz | topic should be "now with linkdumpers" |
| 13:33.56 | zenzio | I don't see why |
| 13:33.59 | zenzio | we've always been like this |
| 13:34.52 | DWSR | http://textsfromlastnight.com/view/56311 <-- /sigh |
| 13:37.14 | olafski | bleh what enchant do I put on tank gloves.. still armsman? |
| 13:38.00 | DWSR | yes |
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| 13:40.01 | Wobin | http://textsfromlastnight.com/view/51147 |
| 13:40.02 | Wobin | >< |
| 13:41.33 | Kalroth | haha |
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| 14:01.06 | airtonix | cbreak, can you check this : http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=LMQm9Lz7H8o |
| 14:01.26 | airtonix | cbreak, see the window turning blue as i resize it? |
| 14:01.49 | cbreak | what is that good for? |
| 14:02.01 | airtonix | cbreak, more importantly see where my mouse cursor is when i resize it>? |
| 14:02.01 | cbreak | I can resize windows without them turning blue, that's even better :) |
| 14:02.33 | cbreak | what about it? |
| 14:02.42 | airtonix | cbreak, i'm hold alt key down then left click dragging when i do that |
| 14:02.56 | cbreak | fascinating |
| 14:02.56 | airtonix | cbreak, notice i'm not having to aim directly for the window frame |
| 14:03.09 | cbreak | when I resize windows, I hold down the left key only and click on the resize triangle |
| 14:03.24 | cbreak | user interfaces are different :) |
| 14:03.33 | airtonix | cbreak, no you said macox can do this |
| 14:03.39 | airtonix | macosx* |
| 14:03.40 | cbreak | sure it can |
| 14:03.49 | cbreak | I resize windows all the time |
| 14:03.51 | airtonix | but i;ve never seen the options for it |
| 14:03.57 | cbreak | to resize windows? |
| 14:04.09 | airtonix | to resize windows like i just did in that video |
| 14:04.10 | cbreak | there are no options |
| 14:04.27 | cbreak | windows are resized with the resizing anchor in os x |
| 14:04.33 | cbreak | or the resize button, if you want auto sizing |
| 14:04.41 | airtonix | so it can;t resize windows like you can in compiz then? |
| 14:04.47 | cbreak | sure you can |
| 14:04.52 | cbreak | with the resize triangle... |
| 14:04.54 | cbreak | are you dense? |
| 14:05.23 | airtonix | do you see what is different about resizing the window like i did in that video and how you have to do it in windows and macos ? |
| 14:05.27 | cbreak | compiz can't resize windows with the right mouse button while pressing ctrl and typing "abracadabra"! OMG! |
| 14:05.36 | airtonix | yes it can |
| 14:05.56 | cbreak | why would anyone want to have to type "abracadabra" to resize windows? |
| 14:06.10 | airtonix | as far as i'm aware you can only resize windows by using the corner gripper in macosx |
| 14:06.24 | cbreak | that's because that's the way to do it... |
| 14:06.33 | cbreak | there's the auto resize button |
| 14:06.37 | airtonix | but its annoying when you have lots of overlapping windows |
| 14:06.56 | cbreak | I only resize the window I work with usually |
| 14:06.57 | olafski | is http://old.wowace.com/wiki/WelcomeHome_-_Your_first_Ace3_Addon still a good guide on converting my addon to ace, or is there something newer or better available? |
| 14:07.14 | airtonix | olafski, yes its still relevant |
| 14:07.18 | cbreak | what's the reason you want to convert to ace? |
| 14:07.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (n=Lunessa@WoWUIDev/Lunessa) |
| 14:07.41 | olafski | I'm going to add more configuration options |
| 14:07.43 | Lopeppeppy | huggles Lunessa gently |
| 14:07.45 | olafski | and I want profiles |
| 14:08.03 | olafski | I currently have a couple of slash commands but I feel a graphical interface would be nice to have |
| 14:08.03 | Lunessa | huggles Lopeppeppy. |
| 14:08.56 | cbreak | there's a WoW api for configurations nowadays I think |
| 14:09.02 | cbreak | it's probably a pain to use |
| 14:09.17 | olafski | nowadays? :P |
| 14:09.23 | olafski | that's been added before tbc iirc |
| 14:09.27 | cbreak | yes |
| 14:09.34 | olafski | I used that on another addon but it was indeed a pain |
| 14:09.36 | cbreak | back when I started writing my addons, it didn't have that :) |
| 14:09.45 | olafski | no on my first addon I made my own frame |
| 14:10.29 | olafski | but just specifying which control types I want and having ace handle it sounds much easier |
| 14:10.29 | cbreak | it was added with 3.0 or 3.1 |
| 14:10.29 | olafski | hmm |
| 14:10.29 | nevcairiel | the "api" wow has is just a place to store your configuration |
| 14:10.29 | olafski | not to mention with ace I get profiles and slashcommands+GUI at the same time |
| 14:10.29 | nevcairiel | it doesnt help generating it much |
| 14:10.39 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (n=chatzill@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 14:10.46 | olafski | yeah.. a nice uniform way to control addons |
| 14:10.50 | olafski | instead of every addon having their own frame |
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| 14:13.11 | olafski | should I join #wowace for questions about ace, or is that about the wowace site? |
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| 14:17.53 | Wobin | yes |
| 14:18.03 | olafski | :< |
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| 14:31.59 | Lunessa | it can be sleepiez tiem nao? |
| 14:34.00 | Lopeppeppy | I wish. |
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| 14:39.53 | Wobin | got his pug tonight |
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| 14:46.22 | Shirik | huggles Lopeppeppy |
| 14:46.38 | Adys | huggles Shirik back |
| 14:46.50 | Kalroth | snuggles Shirik and Adys |
| 14:47.03 | Adys | unzips Kalroth in front of nevcairiel |
| 14:47.10 | Kalroth | uuh |
| 14:48.05 | Kalroth | <kenlyric> old I'm sure, but hahahaha http://www.slashfilm.com/wp/wp-content/images/morgan_freeman-chain-of-command-550x1453.jpg |
| 14:49.12 | airtonix | is that actually morgan freeman as the judge ? |
| 14:50.25 | Kaso | http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099165/fullcredits#cast |
| 14:50.27 | Kaso | seems so |
| 14:50.40 | airtonix | also : robin hoods sidekick should be between us president and god |
| 14:53.35 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (n=Miranda@85.108.34.95.customer.cdi.no) |
| 14:54.21 | cbreak | I wonder why the slave is below the inmate |
| 14:54.53 | Lopeppeppy | Civil rights. |
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| 15:03.24 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
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| 15:14.05 | amro | ~lart Shirik |
| 15:14.05 | purl | takes a rusty axe and swings it violently, taking Shirik's head off |
| 15:14.12 | Shirik | wat |
| 15:14.22 | Shirik | Lopeppeppy did not huggle me :( |
| 15:14.28 | amro | you didn't get my messages? |
| 15:21.40 | Shirik | um |
| 15:21.42 | Shirik | no |
| 15:22.54 | Lopeppeppy | Morning, Shirik. |
| 15:23.49 | Wobin | Morgan Freeman... Judge Leonard White |
| 15:23.53 | Shirik | ~weather kdca |
| 15:23.56 | Wobin | http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099165/ |
| 15:24.06 | Shirik | ew |
| 15:24.09 | Shirik | 30? |
| 15:27.13 | Fisker | ~weather ekch |
| 15:28.26 | foxlit | We're freezing, Fisker. |
| 15:29.17 | ckknight | ~weather hsv |
| 15:29.58 | Lopeppeppy | ~weather kalb |
| 15:30.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Bibi- (n=Bibi@AVelizy-151-1-53-94.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 15:30.03 | olafski | using ace, if I declared my addon as "AV", what is the difference between writing for instance AV:Print() or self.print()? I can't seem to figure out which one to use |
| 15:30.04 | ckknight | ~weather kmdq |
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| 15:30.27 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
| 15:30.35 | ckknight | olafski: self:Print |
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| 15:30.54 | ckknight | olafski: for one, print â Print |
| 15:31.03 | ckknight | olafski: for two, the . vs : is highly important |
| 15:31.16 | nevcairiel | i wonder if it makes a difference for print |
| 15:31.26 | nevcairiel | oh wait, it tries to prefix the addon name |
| 15:31.29 | ckknight | yea |
| 15:31.38 | ckknight | you can just use the global print if you want |
| 15:31.45 | ckknight | lua> print("o hai thar") |
| 15:31.45 | lua_bot | ckknight: o hai thar |
| 15:33.06 | olafski | hmkay think I got it.. now, if I type /ace disable autovendor, nothing seems to be disabled, even though I think I followed the tutorial properly :< |
| 15:33.28 | nevcairiel | are you reading a ace1 tutorial? :P |
| 15:33.46 | olafski | http://old.wowace.com/wiki/WelcomeHome_-_Your_first_Ace3_Addon |
| 15:34.02 | olafski | maybe I'm just calling the wrong slashcommand :P |
| 15:34.40 | olafski | amazing how here I get answers while on #wowace nobody responds to my questions ;p |
| 15:35.17 | nevcairiel | where did you see those slash commands? |
| 15:35.18 | Cidan | Why would you follow a tutorial that comes from a URL that has the name old in it? |
| 15:35.27 | nevcairiel | they havent been provided for a while now |
| 15:35.34 | nevcairiel | and they dont work :D |
| 15:35.37 | olafski | cidan: I asked here a few hours ago whether that one was still up to date |
| 15:35.40 | olafski | nevcairiel: ah, I see |
| 15:35.52 | olafski | nevcairiel: so how do I turn my addon off? :$ |
| 15:35.58 | nevcairiel | you do it manually |
| 15:36.06 | nevcairiel | create your own command that calls AV:Disable() |
| 15:36.16 | nevcairiel | and make sure your OnDisable contains all code required to disable |
| 15:36.19 | olafski | ah |
| 15:36.33 | olafski | except unregistering of events? |
| 15:36.56 | nevcairiel | events, hook and timers are unregistered automatically, assuming you use the Ace libs to create them |
| 15:37.18 | olafski | nice nice.. thanks |
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| 15:38.33 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
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| 15:39.35 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by irc.freenode.net |
| 15:40.52 | mikma | oh man :P i need to find out if there's API that tells you the minimum required level of battleground |
| 15:41.04 | mikma | name, canEnter, isHoliday, minLevel = GetBattlegroundInfo(index); |
| 15:41.22 | mikma | that's 3.2.2, it's name, canEnter, isHoliday = GetBattlegroundInfo(index); now |
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| 15:50.52 | Kraps | look at my horse/my horse is amazing |
| 15:52.54 | Stanzilla | mmm sweet lemonade |
| 15:54.04 | mikma | shut up woman get on my horse |
| 15:54.21 | Kraps | winnnnnnnn |
| 15:55.23 | Kraps | does that thing mean anything or is it just awesome randomness? |
| 15:56.00 | Shirik|AFK | you are randomness |
| 15:56.05 | Shirik|AFK | afks |
| 15:56.29 | cbreak | In2t4d7XMukWNoRe1 is randomness |
| 15:56.36 | cbreak | (base 64 encoded randomness) |
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| 16:17.51 | cogwheel | O.o costco brand champagne got a 90 pt rating in Wine Spectator... |
| 16:18.11 | Lunessa | *glug*glug*glug* |
| 16:18.13 | cogwheel | pinches jnwhiteh & bleeter |
| 16:18.21 | Lopeppeppy | Oh. My. God. |
| 16:19.06 | Lopeppeppy | Colleague wants to set up one of our expensive cameras to take time-lapse photos. I mention we would need someone to sit with it, so it doesn't get stolen. He response, "We may have to take some of it on faith in terms of the stealing thing." |
| 16:19.10 | cogwheel | Cairenn: topic needs moar bleeter imo ;) (or is it already tomorrow in australia?) |
| 16:19.17 | Lopeppeppy | is gobsmacked. |
| 16:19.42 | cogwheel | Lopeppeppy: O.o |
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| 16:21.33 | Lopeppeppy | for that, i should steal it and sell it myself for a few thousand to see me through the layoffs. |
| 16:21.33 | Lunessa | http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/17/led-traffic-lights-dont-melt-snow-do-cause-accidents/ |
| 16:21.35 | Lopeppeppy | *rolls eyes* |
| 16:22.14 | cogwheel | Lunessa: i no rite? |
| 16:22.43 | Kraps | Lunessa: technology is a bitch |
| 16:22.46 | Lunessa | srsly |
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| 16:22.57 | *** part/#wowuidev Kaso (n=Kaso@studio.fuzemedia.co.uk) |
| 16:23.04 | cogwheel | of course, adding heaters to the traffic lights for winter weather will surely still be an improvement over incandescents, energy-wise |
| 16:23.54 | Lunessa | LEDs are good for other reasons though. Namely longevity. |
| 16:23.58 | Kraps | ~weather 11200 |
| 16:24.02 | cogwheel | *nod* |
| 16:24.20 | Kraps | no zip codes? |
| 16:24.32 | cogwheel | purl: help weather |
| 16:24.39 | Lunessa | kraps - use airport codes. |
| 16:24.49 | zenzelezz | go to the site it linked |
| 16:24.52 | Lunessa | ~weather IAH |
| 16:24.56 | Kraps | ~weather jfk |
| 16:25.04 | zenzelezz | it's four-letter codes |
| 16:25.06 | cogwheel | no you need to use the weather station call letters |
| 16:25.07 | zenzelezz | go to the damn site :-p |
| 16:25.11 | cogwheel | ~weather ksts |
| 16:25.13 | zenzelezz | ~weather encn |
| 16:25.18 | Kraps | no i'm working :p |
| 16:25.25 | zenzelezz | no, you're broken |
| 16:25.46 | Kraps | no u! |
| 16:25.56 | Lunessa | ~weather KHOW |
| 16:26.08 | Lunessa | typo |
| 16:26.15 | Lunessa | ~weather KHOU |
| 16:26.33 | cogwheel | ~weather khan |
| 16:26.41 | Duman | heh |
| 16:26.42 | cogwheel | KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN |
| 16:26.45 | Lunessa | KAHNNNN! |
| 16:27.11 | Lunessa | I quit. I can't even type "typo" without concentrating. |
| 16:27.21 | Duman | :-( |
| 16:27.30 | Lopeppeppy | *hug* Needs moar drugs? |
| 16:27.46 | Lunessa | Maybe need less. |
| 16:28.11 | Lopeppeppy | Fork 'em over then, boyo, I need some! |
| 16:28.20 | Lunessa | Naproxen isn't supposed to be all funky. But I seem to be getting all the side-effects. |
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| 16:29.11 | foxlit | Hm. |
| 16:29.26 | foxlit | I wonder why there's all that oculus-focused whining and no old-kingdom-sucks whining :/ |
| 16:30.13 | zenzelezz | for me it would be because I've had about 10 Oculus from random tool since 3.3, 1 OK |
| 16:30.52 | foxlit | OK is pretty much the only instance I'd seriously consider leaving. |
| 16:30.59 | Lunessa | Oc. sucks. Too many people can't be bother to read and/or do anything that isn't "stand here, faceroll keybinds" |
| 16:31.01 | Duman | I think that's because it's not REALLY random... if there is a pre-formed group that wants to go to Oculus, and they open up x-realm lfg, you can possibly get into that group |
| 16:31.02 | foxlit | It's just... so... annoying. |
| 16:31.13 | Duman | and there are lots of people trying to do it for some achievement, afaik |
| 16:31.21 | foxlit | Duman: how many pre-formed groups could possibly want to do oculus? |
| 16:31.27 | Duman | more than you'd guess |
| 16:31.55 | Lunessa | I need to knock out the achievements just so I can get the drake |
| 16:31.59 | foxlit | Well, yes, there's that -- but as I'm guessing 0, that doesn't really help. |
| 16:32.04 | Duman | northred dungeon hero stuff, etc |
| 16:32.12 | Duman | yeah proto-drkes, too |
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| 16:32.21 | Duman | hello, typing. |
| 16:32.24 | foxlit | dungeon hero == proto-drake. |
| 16:32.27 | foxlit | not "too". |
| 16:32.39 | foxlit | Would you really want to do those oc achievements in a pug, though? |
| 16:32.49 | Duman | *shrug* some people might not have an option |
| 16:33.03 | Duman | liek I said, it might be 4 friends... and then you |
| 16:33.27 | Duman | or even 3 + 2pugs |
| 16:33.32 | Duman | anyway |
| 16:33.38 | Duman | I'm pretty sure that's what's going on |
| 16:33.50 | Lunessa | Oh boy - we're all candy canes on the forum. |
| 16:34.01 | Duman | yeah, started yesterday :) |
| 16:34.02 | Duman | heh |
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| 16:34.09 | foxlit | Duman: yet I don't get new instances in randoms |
| 16:34.24 | foxlit | And I'm pretty sure everyone and their grandmas want to do those for, well, loot. |
| 16:35.01 | Lopeppeppy | Ho ho freakin' ho |
| 16:35.22 | zenzelezz | yeah, darn grandmas... always stealing the phat lewtz |
| 16:35.43 | foxlit | yo grandma has full tier 12. |
| 16:35.49 | Cidan | all I ever get are the 3 new instances in the random queue |
| 16:35.49 | foxlit | </horrible> |
| 16:36.06 | zenzelezz | in her day they didn't loot tier armor, they had to make it themselves |
| 16:48.26 | Lunessa | I love "random" dungeons. druid tank from fresh 80 in crap to geared enough for ToC-25 in 3 days. |
| 16:48.41 | Lopeppeppy | ganks her Grand Boss in a dark alley. |
| 16:49.04 | cbreak | Lunessa: I bet that doesn't work for dps |
| 16:49.29 | olafski | higher queue times and more people to roll against ;) |
| 16:49.34 | olafski | still, it wouldn't take much longer I'd think |
| 16:49.42 | Lunessa | cbreak: Maybe not as fast, but several of my guildees basically crank them out constantly while they're online and most of them are DPS. |
| 16:50.24 | kdtresh | anybody need a google wave invite? |
| 16:50.58 | Lunessa | Last night I rolled through all my characters and burned all my emblems that weren't Triumph buying raw gems. figured it was the best investment since T9 (232) gear was so easy to pile up. |
| 16:51.32 | Cidan | I'm going to be instance grinding this entire weekend |
| 16:51.35 | Cidan | I need new gear, so bad. |
| 16:52.04 | cbreak | I try to not do things in WoW that are dead boring |
| 16:52.11 | cbreak | doing heroics for the fifth time is dead boring |
| 16:52.21 | cbreak | so I don't like random heroic very much |
| 16:52.24 | Cidan | oh, and I need to do my christmas stuff |
| 16:52.42 | Lunessa | I was teaching myself to tank. So it wasn't boring. :) |
| 16:52.46 | durcyn | much like your mother, cbreak. boourn. |
| 16:54.35 | olafski | how can I check if a table is empty? |
| 16:54.49 | cbreak | you can try pairs() |
| 16:54.57 | kdtresh | #tablename == 0? |
| 16:55.12 | kdtresh | i don't know if that works |
| 16:55.13 | cbreak | is # supposed to work with non-array tables? |
| 16:55.15 | olafski | getn() seems to do it |
| 16:55.26 | olafski | # always returns something other than 0 for this table |
| 16:56.37 | cbreak | the lua manual says # is defined for arrays only |
| 16:56.55 | olafski | oh, getn is the same as # |
| 16:57.00 | Cidan | yes, yes it is |
| 16:57.16 | olafski | I'll use pairs then I guess |
| 16:57.18 | cbreak | getn is deprecated |
| 16:57.40 | Cidan | why would # always return something other than 0? |
| 16:58.05 | cbreak | # will return 0 if t[1] == nil evaluates to true |
| 16:58.11 | cbreak | probably :) |
| 16:58.19 | Cidan | probably... not. |
| 16:58.27 | Cidan | lua> print "I'm here" |
| 16:58.27 | lua_bot | Cidan: I'm here |
| 16:58.59 | Cidan | lua> t = {}; t[2] = "lol"; print #t; |
| 16:58.59 | lua_bot | Cidan: luabot:1: '=' expected near '#' |
| 16:59.07 | Cidan | failwhail |
| 16:59.33 | olafski | +) |
| 16:59.56 | olafski | right.. think I upgraded most of my addon to ace now |
| 17:00.01 | olafski | now for the hardest part :< |
| 17:01.42 | cbreak | lua> member:t = {}; member:t[2] = "lol"; print(#t) |
| 17:01.42 | lua_bot | cbreak: luabot:1: function arguments expected near '=' |
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| 17:02.03 | cbreak | lua> t = {}; t[2] = "lol"; print(#t) |
| 17:02.04 | lua_bot | cbreak: 0 |
| 17:02.15 | cbreak | my irc client has strange copy/paste behaviour |
| 17:02.44 | cbreak | probably because we have a user "t" in here |
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| 17:10.58 | olafski | nevcairiel: is there an easy way to get that profile switching stuff that most ace addons have in my config UI? I assume it's something default since it looks the same for all addons |
| 17:11.15 | Lunessa | It's 11am - we've had one power outage already. Next week they're turning off the A/C and ripping up carpet - I so don't want to be here right now. |
| 17:11.32 | zenzelezz | so I finally decided to leave my Lucky Fishing Hat in the bank; after having it in my main backpack since... I got it, all those years ago |
| 17:12.21 | Legorol | wow, Marrowgar is seriously nerfed |
| 17:12.27 | Legorol | they just made him tauntable :O |
| 17:12.37 | foxlit | He was a pinata anyway |
| 17:12.38 | Legorol | that was the one challenge for tanks :( |
| 17:12.48 | Legorol | sure foxlit, but now it's a dozefest for tanks |
| 17:14.15 | Kalroth | It was before too :p |
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| 17:18.57 | olafski | nevcairiel: nm, think I found something ;p |
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| 17:30.42 | nevcairiel | olafski: AceDBOptions :d |
| 17:31.11 | olafski | yeah makes sense ;) |
| 17:31.19 | foxlit | Greatfather Winter is such a spammer. |
| 17:32.05 | Lopeppeppy | Very annoying with his ho ho hoing. |
| 17:32.29 | foxlit | Wonder why they removed Crashin' & Trhashin' from the meta. |
| 17:32.45 | Lopeppeppy | It's no longer available to get? |
| 17:32.54 | foxlit | So why isn't it a FoS? |
| 17:33.47 | zenzelezz | it is |
| 17:33.55 | nevcairiel | they nerfed some of the metas |
| 17:33.55 | foxlit | It's still worth 10 achievement points. |
| 17:34.08 | nevcairiel | still weird though, that one was easy |
| 17:34.09 | foxlit | So I don't buy the "it's no longer available" angle |
| 17:34.19 | zenzelezz | http://www.wowhead.com/?achievement=1706 |
| 17:34.39 | foxlit | zenzelezz: wrong achievement. |
| 17:34.41 | nevcairiel | Hm right, it was 2008's special |
| 17:34.47 | nevcairiel | so it wont be around this year |
| 17:34.57 | foxlit | http://www.wowhead.com/?achievement=1295 |
| 17:35.37 | olafski | you can still get the achievement if you already have the racer I guess? |
| 17:35.41 | zenzelezz | foxlit: people who still have their racers can still do the achievement |
| 17:35.47 | zenzelezz | and the racer itself IS a FoS |
| 17:35.55 | foxlit | zenzelezz: but everyone else can't |
| 17:35.59 | nevcairiel | the racer itself was a FoS from the day it was implemented |
| 17:36.02 | foxlit | You can still get the achievement for thunderfury. |
| 17:36.06 | foxlit | But it's a FoS. |
| 17:36.20 | zenzelezz | foxlit: I dont' see eye to eye with you on this one |
| 17:37.01 | foxlit | Basically, it dooms everyone without the racer to (n-1)/n achievements in the world events category |
| 17:37.10 | foxlit | I thought that was exactly what the feats of strength were designed to avoid. |
| 17:37.15 | nevcairiel | maybe it is still available somehow |
| 17:37.38 | foxlit | But if it is, why remove it from the meta? |
| 17:37.39 | nevcairiel | who knows whats in the presents |
| 17:37.45 | nevcairiel | because people QQ'ed? |
| 17:37.47 | nevcairiel | who knows |
| 17:37.50 | nevcairiel | they nerf metas all the time |
| 17:37.57 | foxlit | Haven't heard anything on that qqing front, though. |
| 17:38.23 | foxlit | And as you've said, it seems like an easy one to get. |
| 17:40.03 | nevcairiel | maybe they want to FoS it |
| 17:40.05 | nevcairiel | sometime |
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| 17:48.00 | DWSR | I think the BB gun will be in the presents this year |
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| 17:51.30 | foxlit | I've just tried stealthing in to throw a snowball at Thrall. |
| 17:51.53 | foxlit | One does not simply throw a snowball at Thrall. |
| 17:55.51 | airtonix | you wouldn't simply walk into ogrimmar |
| 17:56.11 | foxlit | Oh, np. |
| 17:56.20 | foxlit | You /would/ simply walk into ogrimmar. |
| 17:56.33 | foxlit | You /would/ also simply steal their fire. |
| 17:57.54 | nevcairiel | Whats the problem with the snowball? |
| 17:58.18 | foxlit | Vol'jin. |
| 17:58.18 | ccox | probably "getting away again" |
| 17:58.38 | foxlit | And the rest of the Kor'kron, really. |
| 17:58.49 | nevcairiel | Elite guards are not friendly to you, eh |
| 17:59.07 | foxlit | How dare they be competent. |
| 17:59.17 | Lopeppeppy | You don't say |
| 17:59.30 | foxlit | [Though, tbh, every time I step into an opposing faction city, I get the feeling that blizzard really does not want me there.] |
| 17:59.52 | Lopeppeppy | Which is good. |
| 18:00.19 | alestane | http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/17/led-traffic-lights-dont-melt-snow-do-cause-accidents/ |
| 18:00.22 | foxlit | Things like toggling your pvp tag for no good reason (outside faction capitals), spawning guards specifically for you even if you haven't aggroed any yourself... and so on. |
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| 18:10.36 | alestane | missed the Peppy yesterday! |
| 18:11.24 | Lopeppeppy | hates the netsplits, she does. |
| 18:13.25 | Fisker | slaps Lopeppeppy around a bit with a large trout |
| 18:18.28 | airtonix | alestane, you'd think the numbskull city planner / engineer would have the foresight to install some kind of heater element to over come this on days such as described |
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| 18:19.23 | airtonix | or design the light housing so the snow can;t build up |
| 18:19.24 | alestane | airtonix: That assumes that they consciously considered the lower heat output as a reduced feature, and not as an advatnage. |
| 18:20.22 | Sesshu | You have found (4) gifts. Enter a gift word: |
| 18:20.29 | Sesshu | hmm |
| 18:20.38 | airtonix | why |
| 18:21.25 | airtonix | or is this more like "hi we are testing that you are not a bot so enter the random letters you see on your screen, failure to do so will result in cancelation and deletion of your account' |
| 18:21.49 | airtonix | "have a nice day : <grnning salesman vector image>" |
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| 18:35.52 | zenzelezz | [2. Trade] [...]: norway is not in europe |
| 18:36.41 | haste | lol |
| 18:36.50 | haste | we're not in the EU tho' D: |
| 18:37.21 | zenzelezz | no, but that's different |
| 18:37.30 | haste | a lot of people think EU == Europe! |
| 18:38.04 | haste | you should ask the person about iceland! |
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| 18:40.30 | haste | hirr, rhytmic noise as ringtone :3 |
| 18:51.17 | Lopeppeppy | If one must manage multiple twitter accounts on a PC, what is a good application to use? Are there such creatures? |
| 18:52.13 | Arrowmaster | http://www.amazon.com/Farscape-Complete-Ben-Browder/dp/B002GP7ZWI/ |
| 18:52.16 | Arrowmaster | fucking ordering |
| 18:52.23 | airtonix | Lopeppeppy, have you considered using some kind of plugin for you email program ? |
| 18:52.47 | Arrowmaster | only $57.99, "You Save: $91.96 (61%)" |
| 18:53.40 | Lopeppeppy | airtonix, we use Outlook at work, I'm not plugging anything into that crap. |
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| 18:54.21 | airtonix | Lopeppeppy, does google wave deal with twitter ? |
| 18:55.04 | airtonix | Lopeppeppy, just a thought : http://www.twhirl.org/ |
| 18:55.29 | Lopeppeppy | airtonix, it's for work, work doesn't have a google wave account. |
| 18:55.58 | airtonix | Lopeppeppy, is this giving you anything ? : http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-10214750-2.html |
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| 18:57.25 | airtonix | that twhirl might be something to look at since it's an adobe air app it will work on any OS you come across |
| 18:57.39 | Lopeppeppy | I've tried TweetDeck before and really hated it, but I might give it and Twirl a try. HootSuite was also recommended, I dunno. |
| 18:57.41 | alestane | Anyone out there willing and able to offer some expert advice on pally tanking? |
| 18:57.44 | airtonix | (providing said machine already has the adobe air engine installed ) |
| 18:58.18 | Lopeppeppy | No, TweetDeck doesn't work, forget that one. |
| 19:03.23 | airtonix | i don't use twitter though so i'm fairly useless giving advice |
| 19:03.28 | airtonix | lol |
| 19:03.36 | Thunder_Child | alestane: such as? |
| 19:04.15 | alestane | Thunder_Child: How actually critical do you find Avenger's Shield for pulling, and do you ever use it when you're not pulling? |
| 19:05.33 | Thunder_Child | alestane: it's handy for pulling multiple mobs but not a "have to use" i personnaly have mine glyphed. and yes i us it in the middle of combat |
| 19:05.42 | Thunder_Child | use* |
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| 19:06.47 | alestane | Because I tank heroics as a pally. I hold aggro well, recover it when I lose it, and rez the occasional person who dies. I almost never wipe and admit if it was my fault. But on a regular basis someone in the party demands to know why I don't pull with it, and they're always put off by the fact that I didn't have room for it in my spec. |
| 19:07.02 | alestane | Not having AS seems to declare you a fail pally and incompetent tank. |
| 19:07.43 | alestane | Personally I suspect that's because it's the most visible sign of being a prot pally. |
| 19:07.56 | Thunder_Child | as long as you hold aggro it shouldnt matter how you do it |
| 19:08.12 | Lopeppeppy | QQ more, EJ freaks. |
| 19:08.56 | alestane | The healer yesterday proceeded to tell me how my talents sucked, right before we four-manned Heroic Oromok and Keristrasz. Just trying to figure out how much of it is input and how much is dogma. |
| 19:09.30 | Dagmar | Just tell them if they can do it better, then they should STFU and roll a paladin |
| 19:09.52 | Thunder_Child | but it doesnt matter, hell i have a hybid pvp pve tanking spec and i hold aggro fine |
| 19:09.56 | Lopeppeppy | A lot of it is everyone thinks they know best. |
| 19:10.03 | Dagmar | People like to carp about hunters who don't just burn Misdirect to help the tank every time it's up--those people are riding the short bus, IMHO |
| 19:10.03 | alestane | My spec is 5/45/21. |
| 19:10.18 | alestane | It does very well for five-mans in my experience. |
| 19:10.27 | Lopeppeppy | What I usually say is if they want to stick around after the dungeon and give commentary, they're welcome, but not during a run. :) |
| 19:10.44 | alestane | It may not be the optimum spec for raid tanking, but I don't try yet. |
| 19:12.33 | Dagmar | I kinda doubt there's solely one optimum spec for that that any mere human could predict. |
| 19:12.47 | Kraps | how many of you have played S.T.A.L.K.E.R? |
| 19:13.19 | alestane | Mostly I just wanted to find out if some who has an actual brain also considered it a must-have before I started telling them off. |
| 19:13.53 | Thunder_Child | oh..well then i guess my opnion is out |
| 19:13.54 | NightHawkTheSane | alestane: for a 1 point investment, I've found the value of it to be worth far more than the meager talent cost. |
| 19:14.01 | Kraps | the gunplay in terrible in that game |
| 19:14.04 | NightHawkTheSane | -personally- I consider it a must have for any of my prot pally specs. |
| 19:14.32 | NightHawkTheSane | But I also don't glyph it, the value of it for me is the multi-target capability |
| 19:14.44 | alestane | NightHawkTheSane: I'm strongly attracted to it, but it's so late that making room for it is hard. I'd probably give up a point of Seals of the Pure if I decide to fit it in. |
| 19:15.03 | alestane | The biggest advantage seems to be AoE initial threat. |
| 19:15.06 | NightHawkTheSane | alestane: can you give me a link to your spec on wowhead or something? |
| 19:15.10 | NightHawkTheSane | i'm just curious |
| 19:15.13 | alestane | Sec. |
| 19:15.38 | NightHawkTheSane | alestane: yeah, gaining a lot of threat on 3 targets at once is really nice. Especially value in situations where I've gotten a couple adds, or an extra pull in the middle of combat |
| 19:16.05 | NightHawkTheSane | valuable* |
| 19:16.33 | Lunessa | .... http://icanhascheezburger.com/2009/12/11/funny-pictures-cat-ready-for-fire/ |
| 19:16.50 | Thunder_Child | well i also run with ret aura instead of devo |
| 19:17.00 | Thunder_Child | works better for crows |
| 19:17.06 | Thunder_Child | crowds* |
| 19:17.09 | NightHawkTheSane | Thunder_Child: in heroics, its not a big deal. |
| 19:17.58 | alestane | Thunder_Child: Same, unless the healer is really struggling. |
| 19:19.21 | VonhintenHOME` | Are you talking about avenger shield? |
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| 19:20.28 | alestane | NightHawkTheSane: http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=2&tal=050000000000000000000000005530013022115032133030200035230201220001000000000000 presently. Probably going to refit it to http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=2&tal=050000000000000000000000005530003402015032133030200035230201220001000000000000 in the near future, I don't use Divine Sacrifice. |
| 19:21.33 | Thunder_Child | you have a thing against stam? |
| 19:21.35 | VonhintenHOME` | You're talking about heroics only right? |
| 19:21.58 | VonhintenHOME` | Cause I wouldn't raid with that |
| 19:22.21 | Thunder_Child | ICC is all about def + stam |
| 19:22.22 | alestane | Thunder_Child: Sacred Duty, you mean? |
| 19:22.23 | NightHawkTheSane | alestane: i'm curious why you picked up vindication rather than judgements of the just. it seems the latter would be a better tool for reducing damage taken |
| 19:22.46 | Thunder_Child | and you are mssing out on 14% of it |
| 19:22.53 | NightHawkTheSane | ah, wait, probably to get sanctified retribution... |
| 19:22.59 | Thunder_Child | alestane: that and combat expertise |
| 19:23.02 | alestane | NHTS: Yes. |
| 19:24.29 | alestane | Thunder_Child: With only 45 points in prot, figuring out what you can put where and qulaify at the right point is non-trivial juggling act. |
| 19:24.34 | alestane | sp* |
| 19:25.12 | Thunder_Child | i just cant say that sanc ret is worth it for tanking, you just dont need that much extra dmg, thats what holy shield is for |
| 19:26.18 | alestane | My friend loves to put all his points in one tree and only put points in another if the first one is actually full. I usually look for things that complement each other in some way. |
| 19:26.44 | alestane | And I'm aware that if there's a ret pally in the group, it's a lot less valuable. |
| 19:27.09 | NightHawkTheSane | alestane: to be honest, it looks like you're sacrificing a lot to try to pick up sanctified retribution. I think you could probably get far more survivability from more points in prot. |
| 19:27.36 | alestane | Well, 21 points in anything limits your focus to another tree. |
| 19:27.57 | Thunder_Child | and you really dont need more dmg, pally tanks are the best holders of aggro in the game as it stands |
| 19:28.03 | alestane | I'm sure I could be a more "hardcore" tank by dedicating those points to prot. |
| 19:28.18 | alestane | Thunder_Child: Damage doesn't just hold aggro, it also kills things. |
| 19:28.26 | Thunder_Child | alestane: but thats not your job |
| 19:28.34 | Thunder_Child | go ret if you want to do that |
| 19:28.43 | alestane | And Snctified Ret makes it easier for the whole group. |
| 19:28.44 | Adys | depends the fight |
| 19:29.00 | Thunder_Child | 3% |
| 19:29.12 | Adys | tanks are pretty good dps in a lot of situations |
| 19:29.31 | Thunder_Child | i didnt say they arent Adys, i'm just saying thats not their main concern |
| 19:29.37 | VonhintenHOME` | good tanks are often #1 on the DPS meter |
| 19:29.58 | Adys | if they're #1 its more likely the rest of the guild sucks |
| 19:30.03 | tardmrr | VonhintenHOME`, usually only the case when dps are slacking, VASTLY undregeared, or just bad |
| 19:30.03 | VonhintenHOME` | not true |
| 19:30.16 | Adys | but in the top 5, thats not totally unusual |
| 19:30.20 | VonhintenHOME` | sorry, I mean damage, not DPS |
| 19:30.25 | NightHawkTheSane | alestane: I'm just looking at things like benediction, Eye for an Eye, and vindication, which really aren't doing a whole lot for you as prot. |
| 19:30.29 | Adys | eh maybe aoe tanks |
| 19:31.25 | alestane | Benediction I might rethink now that I'm not soloing much, since mana is rarely a problem for me (except with that discipline priest healing me the other day). |
| 19:31.31 | VonhintenHOME` | My rogue does 8k+ in raids, but in a 5 man, I'm lucky to do 5k without using cooldowns. With a pally that pulls very fast, with persuit of justice... they'll easily do more damage than me |
| 19:31.34 | NightHawkTheSane | which means you're basically spending something like 8 talent points just to get sanctified ret. |
| 19:32.04 | NightHawkTheSane | alestane: eh, even while soloing, slap up seal of wisdom and call it good :P |
| 19:32.22 | Adys | VonhintenHOME`: i wasnt talking about 5man |
| 19:32.30 | Adys | hint: odds are in a 5man, the tank is in the top 5 |
| 19:32.46 | VonhintenHOME` | Wait, please tell me those specs above were for 5 man, and not raiding |
| 19:32.53 | NightHawkTheSane | they were |
| 19:32.54 | Adys | hell if i know |
| 19:33.05 | alestane | VonhintenHOME`: I do not raid yet with this toon. |
| 19:33.14 | VonhintenHOME` | screw it, I can't follow yalls conversation |
| 19:33.19 | alestane | And if I do I will probably do so as a healer. |
| 19:34.58 | alestane | I do recognize that the first job of a tank is to be "sticky", i.e. hold aggro. The second job of a tank is to not die while doing so. But in many situations, I do question the assertion I see made sometimes that the only capable tank is the one who dedicates every stat point and erg of character advancement to the increase of those two things at the expense of all else. |
| 19:35.25 | Dagmar | Well, so long as he's not blowing points on the fashion accessorizing talent |
| 19:36.02 | Dagmar | What else is there to sack for tanks? I though there was just "things which do damage" and "things which keep you alive" |
| 19:36.04 | Lopeppeppy | EJ QQ makes everyone into an instant expert on what everyone else should do. |
| 19:36.07 | NightHawkTheSane | alestane: well, the thing is a lot of times you're dealing with people concerned with raiding. |
| 19:36.30 | NightHawkTheSane | and, with respect to raiding, a tank has no business doing anything other than staying alive and holding agro :P |
| 19:36.41 | NightHawkTheSane | (fight specific mechanics excepted of course) |
| 19:36.53 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: Do they have the _abilities_ for something else? |
| 19:36.57 | Dagmar | It's not like they can really _heal_ |
| 19:37.13 | cbreak | just not at the same time |
| 19:37.19 | Dagmar | I mean, "staying alive" is a pretty broad set of things |
| 19:37.25 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: well, i mean with regards to doing damage, or getting buffs/debuffs at for the group at the expense of survival |
| 19:37.36 | Lopeppeppy | Dagmar, people disagree to what extent some things contribute to each of thsoe categories, and which of those categories is the more important when one has to choose, and where doing damage comes into holding aggro... rawr. |
| 19:37.43 | VonhintenHOME` | A few thousand DPS applied to an important target can help a lot... for instance, the mistress of pain portal spawns... our tank brought the boss over and started to DPS the portal... went down a lot faster |
| 19:37.53 | Dagmar | Ah see that right there is the difference between a failtank and a TANK |
| 19:38.05 | Dagmar | A failtank will do exactly what the people on EJ said, in every situation. |
| 19:38.08 | Dagmar | They will die often. |
| 19:38.29 | Dagmar | Any time the actual battle situation changes from what the assumptions were on whatever jacked up idiot fest threat on EJ, they'll get killed. |
| 19:38.37 | Dagmar | A REAL TANK will say "screw that" and do what works for them. |
| 19:39.20 | Dagmar | I don't think our "real tank" has ever paid that much attention to EJ and he pulled five groups of mobs in the slaver area of FoS last night in Heroic just to see if he could do it |
| 19:39.43 | alestane | And I presume that if he hadn't lived, you wouldn't be bringing it up. |
| 19:39.45 | NightHawkTheSane | a real tank also knows that 80-90% of the time, things follow pretty normal patterns of behavior and exceptions from that are just that.. exceptions :P |
| 19:39.55 | Dagmar | I *hate* the simple-minded "you must spec this or u suk" people on EJ |
| 19:40.11 | Dagmar | alestane: I'd probably still be laughing at him |
| 19:40.29 | Dagmar | It's being able to handle the exceptions that makes you good or not. |
| 19:40.56 | VonhintenHOME` | I can count the things I LIKE about EJ on 1 hand, with the fingers cut off |
| 19:41.03 | Dagmar | Sacrificing everything else so that you can do one specific tiny little set of things is a great way to get pantsed if that specific set of thing can't happen for any reason. |
| 19:41.05 | NightHawkTheSane | alestane: point being that, in general, few people tend to spec for content that isn't raid or pvp content. |
| 19:41.15 | NightHawkTheSane | alestane: so obviously people's opinions are going to be colored by that view |
| 19:41.16 | Dagmar | VonhintenHOME`: I like that they do a lot of math so I don't have to |
| 19:41.26 | alestane | My first raiding guild was odd in that they were better at the exceptions thatn at teh 90% workaday content. |
| 19:41.50 | Dagmar | alestane: They were probably speccing based on what they found useful, right? |
| 19:41.53 | VonhintenHOME` | In fact, I'm a little pissed that blizzard created items with the names of people from EJ |
| 19:42.07 | VonhintenHOME` | Some of those people are obnoxious asses |
| 19:42.20 | alestane | Dagmar: No idea really. They were all great individuals but didn't take orders very well. |
| 19:42.21 | NightHawkTheSane | most* |
| 19:42.51 | NightHawkTheSane | but being obnoxious asses has no bearing on their skill, intelligence, or problem solving capacity. |
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| 19:43.20 | alestane | The second time I ever killed Rag, we had about four people standing when he went down, and the only reason we actually killed him is that the healer said, "screw it, I can't keep any of the DPS up" and started spamming Smite. |
| 19:44.34 | VonhintenHOME` | The most intelligent, correct and contributing person in the world can be a large dildo not deserving of admiration |
| 19:45.05 | NightHawkTheSane | true. but in this case it wasn't your decision to make. :P |
| 19:45.26 | *** join/#wowuidev isman (n=drag@mlr78-3-88-162-68-235.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 19:45.28 | NightHawkTheSane | may as well just quit being so whiny and jealous about it :P |
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| 19:45.51 | AbsolutRayne | @_@ |
| 19:46.25 | VonhintenHOME` | It's not jealous, it's disappointment. Some of these people being honored with item names will just flat out ban people for asking a question. |
| 19:47.29 | VonhintenHOME` | They take the "elitist" thing to it's furthest extreme.. doesn't seem appropriate to honor people like that. |
| 19:48.16 | Lopeppeppy | pr isn't always appropriate, but it's usually successful |
| 19:50.04 | Shirik | Lopeppeppy has very good PR |
| 19:51.54 | olafski | I'm having a little trouble figuring out how to add my "profiles" options as a sub-category to the options instead of inside the rest of my options.. could anyone point me to how to do that? |
| 19:53.42 | *** part/#wowuidev steev (n=steev@gentoo/developer/steev) |
| 19:54.09 | mitchnull | olafski: acedb3? |
| 19:54.32 | olafski | yeah, acedboptions is what I used to make the panel but it currently resides inside my other options |
| 19:54.51 | Dagmar | My favorite bit is that picking the brittle, extremely specialized spec means you will die frequently on new fights just because things won't happen according to plan and ya can't compensate |
| 19:54.54 | olafski | that works fine, but when I try to add it as a subcategory it produces some errors.. perhaps I'm feeding it the wrong info |
| 19:55.25 | olafski | mitchnull: perhaps we'd better discuss this in #wowace so the others can continue their discussion here :) |
| 19:55.26 | mitchnull | olafski: take a look at PetTimeToLive, it's fairly simple and does this |
| 19:55.37 | olafski | cheers |
| 19:56.05 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (n=nuoHep@89.222.156.36) |
| 19:56.23 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: er, huh? i've never had that happen... |
| 19:57.03 | Shirik | Kraps: "I will not accept the 2009 AC election results unless the votes are made public so they can be verified." |
| 19:57.12 | Shirik | Guess who wrote that, in huge red letters on their user page? |
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| 19:57.33 | Kraps | go colts! |
| 19:57.41 | Shirik | lol |
| 19:58.20 | Kraps | the results of his own election? |
| 19:58.37 | Shirik | I guess :P |
| 19:58.46 | Shirik | I think he's just trying to find something new to complain about |
| 19:58.51 | Kraps | screw him |
| 19:58.52 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: I've watched it many, many times. Even more so now that I'm getting that delicious cross-server sampling of people pugging in >4000 gear |
| 20:00.09 | Kraps | so whats he gonna do, take it to the florida supreme court? |
| 20:00.31 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: that seems more like a problem with people being dumb, than any issue with their spec. |
| 20:00.35 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: THere's a whooole lotta kids out there who just know to click as fast as they can, and the only reason they get away with it is because all of their friends gear is stacked "just so" |
| 20:00.42 | NightHawkTheSane | I've never been in a situation where any particular talent would have saved a bad situation |
| 20:01.09 | Dagmar | Master's Call saved our bacons twice last ninght |
| 20:01.27 | Shirik | http://epicwinftw.com/2009/12/11/admiral-ackbar-approved/ |
| 20:01.29 | NightHawkTheSane | (well, okay, one situation: when fail-[insert class here] does't fucking pick up replesnishment) |
| 20:01.32 | Dagmar | I still have to poke at that and see if I can't get it freeing people other than me |
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| 20:03.29 | Dagmar | I like replenishmet, but then I also have a win button that uses viper sting now so it's not nearly as much of a problem as it used to be |
| 20:03.34 | Dagmar | There's a good supply of casters in the new instances. |
| 20:04.05 | kd3 | yay! [What a long strange trip it's been] |
| 20:04.24 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: its frustrating being in a 10-man with 3 hunters, and none of them have it. >< |
| 20:04.29 | Dagmar | ...as opposed to some of the others that were just warrior, warrior, warrior, warrior, warrior, warrior, warrior-who-can-inexplicably-cast-spells, and mage-who-dies-too-fast-to-steal-meaningful-amounts-of-mana-from bringing up the rear. |
| 20:04.45 | NightHawkTheSane | kd3: grats :) |
| 20:05.08 | alestane | NightHawkTheSane, Thunder_Child: If I start from the same overall assumption about my spec, does this spec seem like a better allocation of the stats within those specs? |
| 20:05.09 | alestane | http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=2&tal=050000000000000000000000005500003502015232133030200050230251200001000000000000 |
| 20:05.14 | Dagmar | Hmm... In that case I wouldn't say take it becasue SV is all that or anything, I'd say someone should take it because there's three of 'em and working to play off each others talents will go farther |
| 20:05.46 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: there was one guy who was SV but didn't have the talent. it made me cry a little. |
| 20:05.52 | Dagmar | what? lol |
| 20:05.55 | *** join/#wowuidev EthanCentaurai (n=ethan@78.149.205.43) |
| 20:06.18 | Dagmar | I wonder what made him wind up with that set |
| 20:06.48 | NightHawkTheSane | shrugs |
| 20:06.53 | Dagmar | I thought that thing was the reason most hunters initially went SV before EJ came out with that deranged spreadsheet |
| 20:08.08 | NightHawkTheSane | alestane: looks like an improvement. i might drop redoubt for combat expertise, and drop vindication for imp might. (i like imp might, so thats definitly personal opinion) |
| 20:08.41 | Thunder_Child | alestane: i would switch touched by the light and comabt expertise |
| 20:09.04 | alestane | So, you guys are really big fans of the extra 6% stam. |
| 20:09.14 | Thunder_Child | and 6% crit |
| 20:09.17 | Thunder_Child | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:09.19 | NightHawkTheSane | and expertise |
| 20:09.25 | NightHawkTheSane | it's a freaking amazing talent :P |
| 20:09.27 | Thunder_Child | all of which help do more dmg |
| 20:09.38 | alestane | Does expertise make a big difference in PvE content? |
| 20:09.44 | *** topic/#wowuidev by Cairenn -> http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ | 3.3.x ToC: 30300 | #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting | Happy Birthday jnwhitehead & Bleeter!! |
| 20:09.52 | NightHawkTheSane | alestane: as much as hit does |
| 20:10.02 | NightHawkTheSane | actually, for a tank, 2x as much as hit :P |
| 20:10.17 | Thunder_Child | bacuse hit works better from behind |
| 20:10.29 | Thunder_Child | because* |
| 20:10.32 | NightHawkTheSane | well, hit and expertise are equal from behind, because parry is out of hte question |
| 20:10.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 20:10.40 | NightHawkTheSane | (up to the caps, obviously) |
| 20:10.47 | *** join/#wowuidev zmigliozzi (n=zmiglioz@74-136-197-213.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 20:11.34 | NightHawkTheSane | and yeah, touched by the light is probably a better talent to drop |
| 20:12.00 | alestane | That's the one of the two that I would let go. |
| 20:12.15 | alestane | Shield of Righteousness makes block value an ungodly stat. |
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| 20:12.22 | Thunder_Child | yup |
| 20:12.29 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah |
| 20:12.31 | Cidan | YOUR MOTHER IS A CLASSY LADY |
| 20:12.36 | alestane | I'll take weaker consecrates over reduced block. |
| 20:12.38 | NightHawkTheSane | she is, thanks Cidan |
| 20:12.43 | foxlit | alestane: random feature request time: next = QueryCastRandom("randomstring"); |
| 20:13.00 | Thunder_Child | you fail foxlit |
| 20:13.24 | alestane | foxlit: I can't think of too many cases where it would really be all that great. |
| 20:13.39 | foxlit | alestane: proper action bar feedback for those macros. |
| 20:13.57 | alestane | I'll mention it. |
| 20:14.20 | alestane | I'd actually really like some kind of support for custom icon feedback in general. |
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| 20:14.33 | foxlit | It shouldn't be too bad now that castrandom essentially keeps track of what spell it'll cast next. |
| 20:14.44 | NightHawkTheSane | alestane: as an aside, while avengers shield is great, hammer of the righteous is too nifty for me to not pick it up. between that and SoV, you don't always need consecreate |
| 20:15.01 | foxlit | Hey, itemid, spellid = GetMacroAction("string"); would be best, but that's harder. |
| 20:15.12 | Thunder_Child | i wish DS applied SoV :( |
| 20:15.36 | alestane | NHtS: That's the other reason I grabbed Seal of Command, actually...it compensates somewhat for the lack of Hammer. |
| 20:15.36 | NightHawkTheSane | Thunder_Child: i suspect that would be insane in certain situations. :P |
| 20:15.50 | NightHawkTheSane | alestane: I saw, which is why I didn't critisize it. :) |
| 20:16.04 | Thunder_Child | NightHawkTheSane: XD |
| 20:16.06 | NightHawkTheSane | I haven't used the new SoComm so i can't really comment on that vs HotR |
| 20:16.07 | Thunder_Child | thats the idea |
| 20:16.21 | NightHawkTheSane | criticize(sp?) |
| 20:16.22 | batbot | NightHawkTheSane, criticize is correct. |
| 20:16.37 | alestane | That change is the first time SoC has made any kind of sense to me. |
| 20:16.54 | alestane | Although I guess the deal with the old versions is that it scaled with attack power. |
| 20:17.27 | NightHawkTheSane | the only thing i might say is that by using command, you're sacrificing SoV. *shru* |
| 20:17.30 | NightHawkTheSane | *shrug* |
| 20:17.42 | alestane | I usually switch to Vengeance for bosses. |
| 20:17.51 | KarlKFI|work | ^^ |
| 20:17.55 | NightHawkTheSane | obviously. :) |
| 20:18.09 | NightHawkTheSane | but i do like vengeance on trash packs |
| 20:18.38 | alestane | If you can cycle them effectively, it's pretty sick. |
| 20:20.04 | alestane | I generally find that I really like tanking. It's way more of a rush than caster DPS. |
| 20:20.56 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah |
| 20:21.06 | NightHawkTheSane | caster dps is basically stand there, press some buttons, watch stuff die. |
| 20:21.37 | alestane | You don't need meters to know if you're doing your job as a tank. |
| 20:21.50 | alestane | If you don't do your job as a tank, PEOPLE DIE. |
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| 20:22.30 | Dagmar | People die all the time |
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| 20:22.46 | durcyn | some people should die more often |
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| 20:24.37 | Polarina | Wait, aren't new taintlog entries written out directly to the harddisk? |
| 20:26.13 | Polarina | writes an addon that allow real-time one-way communication with programs outside of WoW. |
| 20:26.55 | Polarina | could also use screenshots, but that makes the game slow. |
| 20:27.20 | alestane | "[Asphodell] says: I can't kill the dudes on the horses with the jousty thingy." |
| 20:28.21 | mikma | shut up woman get on my horse |
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| 20:30.52 | Thunder_Child | i hate you mikma |
| 20:31.00 | cogwheel | Cide: u maek viewport expand when ui is hidden plox |
| 20:31.15 | Cide | I'm not coding addons anymore :P |
| 20:31.22 | Cidan | Really? |
| 20:31.23 | Cide | but it's probably trivial to add |
| 20:31.31 | Cide | yarly |
| 20:31.35 | Cidan | Why so? |
| 20:31.40 | Cide | not enough time |
| 20:34.24 | mikma | thunder_child: :( |
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| 20:35.08 | Nechckn | Folks, one more try with this; can really use a hand - Does anyone have personal experience with tomtom vs garmin vs magellan as far as their live traffic and other "connected" features go? Especially Eastern US... Few articles match as far as recommendations, so any input is appreciated! |
| 20:39.07 | nicoli_s | im in the eastern us, but my garmin is too cheap to do anything like that i think |
| 20:41.27 | Nechckn | Yeah, the services are relatively "new", so I just have no idea. |
| 20:41.51 | Nechckn | One review says X is the best, by far, then the next says Y is, et cetera... |
| 20:41.53 | Nechckn | is lost |
| 20:42.31 | durcyn | Nechckn: standalone gps are going the way of the dodo, google maps navigation makes them look like little childrens' toys |
| 20:42.44 | durcyn | and not the good kind. |
| 20:43.03 | Lopeppeppy | In my experience, a local radio station is your best "live traffic". I have a garmin but would never consider any online service for local traffic. |
| 20:43.22 | Nechckn | Sure, but for Christmas next week, there is nothing that uses them and provides directions, updates for traffic, etc, durcyn |
| 20:43.31 | durcyn | Nechckn: my phone. |
| 20:43.52 | Nechckn | okay, my brother will love it, thank you! |
| 20:44.06 | Nechckn | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:44.06 | durcyn | happy to help |
| 20:44.22 | Nechckn | when can I tell him to expect it? |
| 20:44.25 | Nechckn | hehhehe |
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| 20:45.39 | Nechckn | The thought is that they include a lot of that stuff in them, including calling out for updates and such, so.. meh! Sounds like it is lump of coal time for him |
| 20:46.41 | durcyn | garmin apparenly has apps you can add in now, and i've heard good things about tomtom's updates Just Working(tm) over USB |
| 20:47.17 | durcyn | but seriously, don't spend more than a hundred bucks, tbh |
| 20:48.51 | Nechckn | Would just get him an iPhone or Droid, but do not want to become his personal service provider, either |
| 20:51.13 | durcyn | better to wait and see what happens with the Nexus One anyway on that front |
| 20:53.05 | durcyn | and then maybe one day we'll get a useful car dock for smartphones that'll display the phone gps rather than the built-in crap |
| 20:53.08 | durcyn | a man can dream, yes |
| 20:54.11 | NightHawkTheSane | mmmm... nexus one... |
| 20:54.13 | NightHawkTheSane | drools a little |
| 20:54.28 | Dagmar | Don't worry |
| 20:54.37 | Dagmar | No significant progress will be made on that front for awhile |
| 20:55.12 | Dagmar | There will be far too many pointless lawsuits looking to make sure they can get a piece of any action that happens for any company to really do more than they're doing right now |
| 20:55.39 | Nechckn | Pretty much the name of the game for all of 'em. |
| 20:55.53 | Nechckn | There are a lot of toes in the way that are step-on-able too |
| 20:56.00 | Nechckn | Big toes... |
| 20:57.11 | Dagmar | This would all go away if frivolous "but I demand you leave room for my company to sell a product that piggybacks off yours" suits were resolved by single combat |
| 20:57.25 | Dagmar | Apple could just start by hiring Chuck Norris to represent them. |
| 20:58.23 | NightHawkTheSane | that might be hilarious. |
| 20:58.34 | Dagmar | It would put an end to a lot of bullshit |
| 20:58.50 | NightHawkTheSane | afks to grab lunch |
| 20:59.01 | Nechckn | Hrm... Chuck vs Mr. T |
| 20:59.05 | Dagmar | I am still astounded that companies had the gall to complain about the one company that put an augmented reality easter egg in their review app |
| 20:59.09 | Nechckn | I'd just like to see that |
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| 20:59.46 | Nechckn | claims full copyright on all eggs! Easter, or otherwise |
| 20:59.55 | Dagmar | They had seen Apple say changes were being made to the iPhone's OS to make it easier for AR apps in the next release, some company goes ahead and does it the _hard_ way, and they all acted like somehow this company cheated and were calling for Apple to take it off the store |
| 21:00.00 | Dagmar | That is _weaksauce_ |
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| 21:01.12 | Dagmar | Same crap is going on with Garmin and TomTom right now |
| 21:03.41 | Dagmar | I was rather hoping Steve Jobs would smite a few piddling CEOs with bolts of lightning for complaining that someone with the forthwith to write code without help was somehow gaining an "unfair advantage" |
| 21:04.32 | foxlit | Dagmar: but the developer agreement precludes you from using undocumented API. |
| 21:04.39 | foxlit | They're asking for equal enforcement, right? |
| 21:04.48 | Dagmar | foxlit: Writing your own code is not using anything undocumented. |
| 21:05.17 | Dagmar | THey were asking for Apple to penalize someone for including a hidden feature they didn't have the stones to code themselves |
| 21:05.20 | foxlit | I must've misread something |
| 21:06.19 | Dagmar | Considering the iPhone's GPS/compass functionality isn't all that accurate, I can see why they made it an easter egg |
| 21:06.27 | ZorbaTHut | as I see it, Apple claims they're going to add new fancy AR APIs |
| 21:06.47 | Dagmar | Yeah that's what they've been saying, but without an act of serious magic I don't see it happening well |
| 21:06.51 | ZorbaTHut | Yelp, meanwhile, builds AR on top of the existing APIs |
| 21:07.06 | ZorbaTHut | Yelp AR app gets released |
| 21:07.19 | Dagmar | Much whining ensues |
| 21:07.24 | ZorbaTHut | many developers complain that they're too lazy to do hard work, and therefore Yelp must be cheating |
| 21:07.36 | Dagmar | Jobs should have busted out the lightning |
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| 21:10.09 | NightHawkTheSane | ... this so-called "potato roll" i got is, in fact, not a potato roll at all, but an olive roll. |
| 21:10.12 | NightHawkTheSane | grumbles |
| 21:10.38 | ZorbaTHut | so . . . it's strictly better? |
| 21:10.57 | NightHawkTheSane | *shrug* about the same |
| 21:11.05 | NightHawkTheSane | i like both. i was just looking forward to a potato roll |
| 21:12.38 | olafski | I think steve balmer could kick steve jobs' ass any day of the week |
| 21:12.50 | olafski | especially if there are chairs around |
| 21:13.09 | Dagmar | Jobs is bantam. It wouldn't be a fair fight |
| 21:13.38 | Dagmar | I *would* however like to see Lowtax and Ballmer get into it, if we're idly speculating |
| 21:13.39 | NightHawkTheSane | ... what is this, kindergarden? who cares who could kick whos ass :P |
| 21:14.05 | olafski | nighthawkthesane: well, someone stated earlier that lawsuits should be resolved in single combat.. :) |
| 21:14.20 | olafski | if that's how things would work apple would not be on the market at all |
| 21:14.21 | NightHawkTheSane | meh |
| 21:14.24 | Dagmar | It would greatly reduce the level of frivolity in the legal system |
| 21:14.24 | NightHawkTheSane | to hell with that |
| 21:14.47 | olafski | dagmar: like that frivolity that allows the EU to tell microsoft how to run their business |
| 21:15.00 | olafski | "now now steve, don't go maximizing your company's profit like that, it's unfair to the losers!" |
| 21:15.08 | Dagmar | ...because clearly, all that money that they make isn't doing a thing to stop lawyers from making whatever argument they can with a straight face. |
| 21:15.12 | Dagmar | Like the Eolas suit |
| 21:16.05 | Dagmar | olafski: It wasn't the maximization they had a problem with. It was the active interference in everyone else's business and the retardation of technical progress in society as a whole that they had a problem with. |
| 21:16.28 | olafski | call it what you will, I will still call it BS :) |
| 21:16.39 | Dagmar | I fully expect to see the DoJ saying something to MS again (eventally, when they grow some more balls) about the Netbook thing |
| 21:17.15 | olafski | if I was growing apples (real ones) and could somehow convince my customers no other apples existed I would sure as hell do that |
| 21:17.42 | Dagmar | They went beyond that to telling the people who resold their apples that they could not in fact sell any apples but Microsoft's |
| 21:17.51 | olafski | I don't see the problem |
| 21:17.54 | NightHawkTheSane | hah! "When your defense of your Mac UI design is that Adobe and/or Firefox do it in their Mac apps too, you've got a problem." |
| 21:17.54 | Dagmar | I do |
| 21:18.05 | Dagmar | It stifles everything. |
| 21:18.06 | olafski | I'm sure you do dagmar |
| 21:18.25 | olafski | the people selling these apples could just say "f that, I won't sell your apples then" |
| 21:18.32 | olafski | but they don't, because those apples are in pretty high demand |
| 21:18.58 | olafski | the EU just tells MS to give the little guy who has just one apple tree a chance, even though he clearly can't make it on his own |
| 21:19.05 | Dagmar | They don't because Microsoft made sure their apples aren't compatible with any other fruit, anywhere |
| 21:19.20 | Dagmar | So you either get to buy Microsoft's apples, or you get to eat rocks |
| 21:19.24 | NightHawkTheSane | I think this metaphore may be stretched a touch thin |
| 21:19.31 | olafski | dagmar: I like where you're going with this |
| 21:19.35 | olafski | apples or rocks |
| 21:19.45 | Dagmar | Yeah well, if he can't figure out what a monopoly is and why it's bad then perhaps we need to stick to the level of crayons and cartoon characters |
| 21:19.52 | olafski | e.g. juicy stuff with vitamins or useless carbon that will destroy your teeth |
| 21:20.15 | ZorbaTHut | imagine you make apples. they're the world's most popular apples. now let's say you want to get into the orange business, so you formulate your apples such that if they ever touch your competitor's oranges, they instantly explode. |
| 21:20.32 | olafski | sounds genius zorbathut |
| 21:20.34 | ZorbaTHut | so now anyone who wants to eat your apples, and also wants oranges, is forced to eat your oranges as well. |
| 21:20.34 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: i get the feeling he's some kind of free-market-takes-adam-smith-out-of-context wacko :P |
| 21:20.36 | olafski | some company should pick up on that |
| 21:20.47 | ZorbaTHut | that's the problem. profitable: yes, absolutely. overall detrimental to progress: yes. |
| 21:20.48 | Dagmar | Or you sign agreements with netbook makers so that you'll give them your apples for nearly free if you stop selling netbooks with oranges installed |
| 21:20.56 | Dagmar | s/you/they/; |
| 21:20.58 | olafski | progress just for the sake of progress? |
| 21:20.58 | olafski | or what |
| 21:21.06 | ZorbaTHut | the problem is never "having a monopoly", it's always "abusing your monopoly". |
| 21:21.16 | Dagmar | ~ZorbaTHut++ |
| 21:21.25 | olafski | if nobody ever asks for oranges clearly they don't need them :) |
| 21:21.25 | ZorbaTHut | olafski, yes, pretty much. many governments consider their goal to be improving the welfare of their constituency |
| 21:21.26 | NightHawkTheSane | ZorbaTHut: well, once you have the monopoly, what else are you going to do with it? i mean SERIOUSLY. :P |
| 21:21.29 | olafski | so we can stick to apples |
| 21:21.38 | Dagmar | olafski: I'm asking for oranges |
| 21:21.45 | olafski | zorbathut: so progress in software means improvement of welfare? :< |
| 21:21.46 | ZorbaTHut | abusive monopolies can hurt things quite a bit, so, break up the monopoly, everyone is happier |
| 21:21.48 | Dagmar | I would have LIKED to buy a Netbook in Best Buy with Ubuntu on it |
| 21:21.50 | Dagmar | Now, I can't. |
| 21:21.53 | NightHawkTheSane | wait, some converments care about the welfare of their citizans? which country is this? >< |
| 21:21.56 | ZorbaTHut | olafski, of course. if better software is available, humanity as a whole is improved. |
| 21:21.57 | olafski | dagmar: if you hadn't known about oranges you wouldn't have asked for them |
| 21:22.07 | Dagmar | I was looking forward to finally being able to just buy hardware with LInux already on it |
| 21:22.09 | olafski | an interesting way to look at life zorbathut ;) |
| 21:22.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (n=dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 21:22.17 | Dagmar | ...instead of having to fscking ask for a partial refund. |
| 21:22.26 | ZorbaTHut | nighthawk, I don't remember who anymore, but there's a few industrial-equipment and scientific-equipment manufacturers who have monopolies in their fields, but don't abuse them |
| 21:22.41 | NightHawkTheSane | ZorbaTHut: it was a mostly rhetorical statement. ;) |
| 21:22.44 | ZorbaTHut | they essentially have monopolies solely because they make really great products at low products, and they do so because of their experience in the field. |
| 21:23.00 | ZorbaTHut | sure, I just think it's good to realize that "monopoly" and "abusive monopoly" aren't the same thing. :) |
| 21:23.21 | NightHawkTheSane | ZorbaTHut: although in that specific example, i suspect their power to leverage their monopoly for absuive purposes is fairly low, unlike microsofts |
| 21:23.55 | NightHawkTheSane | in a niche market, its easier to achieve a monopoly, but at the same time, the relative power of that monopoly is not great. |
| 21:24.10 | ZorbaTHut | eh. "We're now selling flask mixers and flasks with a new SAFETY CONNECTOR! That way you can ensure that you won't be using substandard components in your scientific experiment! (the safety connector and production of the safety connector is patented by us and not available for licensing)" |
| 21:24.43 | ZorbaTHut | oh hey look at that everyone's using the safety connector now. Time to jack our prices up 500%! Either pay the premium or buy all new equipment |
| 21:25.03 | olafski | I still don't see an issue |
| 21:25.09 | olafski | sucks to be you if you bought those flasks |
| 21:25.13 | olafski | but that's life ;) |
| 21:25.21 | Dagmar | Better yet, get them to sign a first right of refusal contract, and a three year rotation contract with seller's right of renewal |
| 21:25.29 | olafski | I don't think we should claim to have an open market if we're going to force people to not fully participate in it |
| 21:25.32 | olafski | I call this communism |
| 21:25.38 | NightHawkTheSane | olafski: we DON'T have an open market. |
| 21:25.39 | ZorbaTHut | olafski, the issue is the tragedy of the commons. If you permit everyone to do whatever they like, then humanity as a whole is poorer and worse-off. |
| 21:25.46 | olafski | nighthawkthesane: unfortunately |
| 21:26.15 | ZorbaTHut | capitalism is very, very good at making money for the people who have a lot of power. This is not necessarily a good thing in all cases. |
| 21:26.17 | NightHawkTheSane | olafski: i take back what i said, you're not just some free market whacko, you're a right wing full on laissez faire nutjob. |
| 21:26.48 | ZorbaTHut | The proper way to deal with capitalism is to harness it into making people's lives better, and into spending money making *better products* rather than into *making more money*. It's a tricky thing to manage. |
| 21:27.02 | olafski | thanks I guess nighthawkthesane |
| 21:27.13 | NightHawkTheSane | ZorbaTHut: that is essentially the confluence of capitalism and socialism |
| 21:27.19 | VonhintenHOME` | Anyone have a clue what the state of Rawr.Enhance is? It's saying that Int is like 8x more valuable than the next stat (which is spirit? wtf) |
| 21:27.33 | olafski | I'd say that would be against the point of capitalism zorbathut, so it won't work=( |
| 21:27.34 | ZorbaTHut | nighthawk, yes. It's a difficult balance to strike, and too far in either direction results in major, major problems. |
| 21:27.39 | Dagmar | VonhintenHOME`: Occasionally that program gets fits of the stupid on an epic scale |
| 21:27.43 | NightHawkTheSane | olafski: take it as a compliment if you like, but it was an insult. i dont generally respect that kind of person. :) |
| 21:27.45 | ZorbaTHut | olafski, no, you misunderstand "capitalism" rather badly, I'm afraid |
| 21:27.58 | NightHawkTheSane | ZorbaTHut: indeed. I dont know that anyone's done it. |
| 21:27.59 | ZorbaTHut | capitalism is the process of allowing mass numbers of people to optimize for certain goals. |
| 21:28.02 | olafski | nighthawkthesane: that's ok, I don't respect communists either ;) |
| 21:28.12 | ZorbaTHut | without any restrictions on it, those "goals" end up being "money". |
| 21:28.25 | olafski | zorbathut: hm, I thought it was "every man for himself" |
| 21:28.29 | ZorbaTHut | But that's not required for capitalism to exist, any more than "biological reproduction" is a requirement of "evolution". |
| 21:28.35 | ZorbaTHut | No, that's anarchy. |
| 21:28.36 | olafski | that's the thing I like anyway |
| 21:28.38 | VonhintenHOME` | Dagmar, ok, but specific to Enhance model, or just in general? |
| 21:28.46 | olafski | you don't have to have anarchy for that in my opinion |
| 21:28.47 | Dagmar | IN general |
| 21:28.58 | olafski | eventually people should realize that if they want what's best for them, sometimes they have to work together |
| 21:29.01 | Dagmar | The Hunter module has been at times laughingly over the mark and below it |
| 21:29.06 | ZorbaTHut | Sure. And we did. And thus was born government. |
| 21:29.20 | olafski | indeed |
| 21:29.25 | Dagmar | I've had it saying I could only possibly do 1,400 DPS during one revision, then 3,200 the next |
| 21:29.33 | Dagmar | Theorycraft math is kinda bitchy |
| 21:29.51 | olafski | dagmar: just pick whatever item looks best, that beats theorycrafting anyday and is a lot easier |
| 21:29.52 | NightHawkTheSane | o_0 wow, you're fucking insane. how can you even rationalize labeling everything you dont like communist, while at the same time spouting a line that may as well be socliast dogma :P |
| 21:29.59 | Dagmar | VonhintenHOME`: Look carefully at what it's selected for your cast rotation |
| 21:30.13 | olafski | nighthawkthesane: I wasn't calling everything I don't like communist.. I just say I don't respect communism :) |
| 21:30.21 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: Because that's the new republican motto "If we don't like it, it must be communist" |
| 21:30.24 | ZorbaTHut | Anyway, if you want to get certain things out of capitalism, you have to put appropriate incentives on it - anything from "money" to "we will fucking throw you in jail". The tricky part becomes figuring out the appropriate incentives and penalties to toss around. |
| 21:30.33 | olafski | I have no clue what republican even is.. :> |
| 21:30.36 | NightHawkTheSane | olafski: no, you've done nothing but label everything that you didnt like in this conversation as "that looks like communism to me" |
| 21:30.52 | olafski | nighthawkthesane: if you say so.. then you've clearly missed my point ;) |
| 21:31.04 | NightHawkTheSane | no, you've clearly missed reality ;) |
| 21:31.07 | ZorbaTHut | What is your point? |
| 21:31.17 | Dagmar | Dude, not keeping an eye on people to make sure they make MORAL decisions is how we got into this massive clusterfuck on Wall Street |
| 21:31.28 | NightHawkTheSane | ZorbaTHut: I dont think incentivizing parts of capitalism really will work |
| 21:31.29 | Dagmar | Your arguments about communism are just stupid in the face of that |
| 21:31.38 | olafski | a company should run the way they want to run as long as they're not physically hurting anyone.. I still believe that if microsoft crosses some sort of line, people will stop buying their stuff |
| 21:31.45 | ZorbaTHut | nighthawk, it has and will. we subsidize corn, so we get a shitload of corn. |
| 21:31.52 | Dagmar | Buisnesses, by their very nature, regularly make amoral, selfish decisions. |
| 21:31.59 | ZorbaTHut | we toss huge legal barriers and fees on nuclear power, we stop getting nuclear power. |
| 21:32.29 | ZorbaTHut | olafski, the definition of "physically hurting someone" is rather vague |
| 21:32.36 | olafski | indeed |
| 21:32.37 | ZorbaTHut | if I build a machine that steals a dollar out of everyone's wallet every day, is that okay? |
| 21:32.48 | olafski | bleh |
| 21:32.49 | Dagmar | olafksi: Yes, clearly the price of crack is what keeps people from doin git |
| 21:32.54 | NightHawkTheSane | ZorbaTHut: hm. true. |
| 21:33.00 | Kalroth | ZorbaTHut: unless they can't spare that dollar, sure |
| 21:33.04 | Dagmar | If it werne't so cheap they wouldn't be shooting people to take their money and stuff to buy more of it. |
| 21:33.09 | olafski | dagmar: eh.. not sure what you're getting at with that :P |
| 21:33.32 | Dagmar | Your argument that people will stop buying Microsoft's products when they 'cross some like' fails to account for reality. |
| 21:33.43 | olafski | it wasn't per se a line in price |
| 21:33.48 | ZorbaTHut | nighthawk, the force of supply and demand is a horrifyingly strong one, and can be influenced *very* easily by tossing money around. It's a much better way to handle things than putting down fixed laws |
| 21:33.56 | olafski | if they really make such an inferior product that a competitor becomes better, people will buy the competitor |
| 21:34.02 | ZorbaTHut | fixed laws tend to create discontinuities, and discontinuities create economic turbulence, and that's inefficient. |
| 21:34.06 | Kalroth | Dagmar: No, he's correct. Just look at drug dealers. People stop buying drugs from them when they find out that drugs are bad. |
| 21:34.07 | NightHawkTheSane | ZorbaTHut: the problem remains though, is that at a certain point, you need restrictions, not merely incentives. |
| 21:34.09 | Dagmar | A company with a first right of refusal agreement and rotating three year contract with >40,000 desktops world-wide can NEVER get away from Microsoft. Not even if they wanted to. |
| 21:34.17 | Dagmar | Microsoft completely controls that. Period. |
| 21:34.20 | NightHawkTheSane | ZorbaTHut: otherwise, the incentives can't get large enough to sway the actions of larger businesses |
| 21:34.27 | ZorbaTHut | oh, incentives can get plenty big |
| 21:34.30 | ZorbaTHut | billion-dollar fines? |
| 21:34.32 | ZorbaTHut | trillion-dollar fines? |
| 21:34.35 | Dagmar | I can name three companies right now in that state. |
| 21:34.43 | ZorbaTHut | you can influence any company on the planet by taking a trillion bucks from them |
| 21:35.03 | Dagmar | $IPTABLES --append sshthrottle \ |
| 21:35.03 | Dagmar | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:35.03 | Dagmar | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:35.03 | Dagmar | $IPTABLES --append sshthrottle --jump DROP |
| 21:35.03 | NightHawkTheSane | ZorbaTHut: ah, we have different ideas of 'incentive' then. you're including 'penalty' in that ;) |
| 21:35.09 | ZorbaTHut | however, I do agree that some things are difficult to nail down in a non-discontinuous fashion. Monopoly abuse, for example. |
| 21:35.11 | Kalroth | 1) People are greedy assholes. 2) People are dumb. 3) People are sheeps. <- now take 1+2 and put them in control of a company that sells goods to 2+3 |
| 21:35.16 | ZorbaTHut | Negative incentives are still incentives ;) |
| 21:35.21 | Cidan | That's the problem with discussions like these; "tend," "can," "would," "likely," are all ways to describe something that on a sociological whole, is not set as a constant in any given society. The fact is, different systems work for different cultures and different peoples. |
| 21:35.37 | NightHawkTheSane | ZorbaTHut: Agreed, I jsut had it in my head that by incentives you specifically meant positive reinforcement |
| 21:35.39 | ZorbaTHut | Plus, in some cases, you can actually start handing out billion-dollar positive incentives without anyone getting pissed off |
| 21:35.51 | ZorbaTHut | see "cap and trade", for example, which is a truly elegant capitalist solution to pollution. |
| 21:36.00 | ZorbaTHut | (naturally, that's why republicans don't like it. ho ho! see what I did there) |
| 21:36.19 | Dagmar | heheh |
| 21:36.31 | olafski | jeez.. I clearly need to polish my trolling |
| 21:36.35 | olafski | this would have worked on quakenet |
| 21:36.51 | Kalroth | olafski: People are Fisker trained in here. |
| 21:36.57 | olafski | yeah he's good |
| 21:37.01 | olafski | even I considered putting him on ignore |
| 21:37.02 | Kalroth | You're going to need a lot bigger bait |
| 21:37.08 | NightHawkTheSane | And, specifically regarding positive reinforcement, at a certain point that struggles, because the sheer size of companies means that it's difficult to offer a reward that they'll care about. (see recent "we're giving back the bailout money because we'd rathe rpay our execs billions of dollars for fucking up and not actually fix the economy") |
| 21:37.13 | Dagmar | YEah well, the problem there is that there's people out there who would actually agree with everything you said |
| 21:37.25 | olafski | on quakenet nobody would've called me a republican either since they're all european |
| 21:37.30 | Dagmar | We call those people 'republican conservatives' and often 'the republican base' |
| 21:37.36 | ZorbaTHut | you'd be surprised how little you need to influence even a large company, though |
| 21:37.37 | Dagmar | It's freaking scary |
| 21:37.45 | ZorbaTHut | you want to influence them enough to jump off a cliff, yes, alright, that's going to be hard |
| 21:37.57 | ZorbaTHut | you want to influence them to spend a million dollars installing pollution controls, just offer them 1.1 million dollars. |
| 21:38.04 | mikma | wat wat |
| 21:38.20 | Kalroth | mikma: in the ? |
| 21:38.25 | ZorbaTHut | if it's profitable for them, it's profitable for them, and they'll generally do it. And if they won't, they'll get overtaken by their smarter more agile cousins. |
| 21:38.25 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: increasingly it's "the entire republican party" |
| 21:38.25 | mikma | olafski: i've had fiskertroll ignored for some time nowä its pretty awesome! |
| 21:38.29 | olafski | I'll install 1M worth of pollution control in my houe if you give me 1.1M |
| 21:38.43 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: That is almost saddening, too. The smart ones they had left started jumping ship |
| 21:38.45 | olafski | mikma: every time I am about to he says something useful :< |
| 21:38.52 | Kalroth | ZorbaTHut: Thing is that you can't buy your way out of everything. |
| 21:38.57 | ZorbaTHut | olafski, if cap-and-trade passes, and you can figure out a way to save 1.1M of pollution credits by spending 1M, then you'll be able to do exactly that |
| 21:39.00 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: severeal of my moderate conservative friends already have, basically |
| 21:39.04 | ZorbaTHut | kalroth, you'd be surprised :) but what do you have in mind? |
| 21:39.07 | mikma | olafski: well do it when he reaches the troll-climax |
| 21:39.12 | Kalroth | ZorbaTHut: Some times you need to roll that news paper up and slap the dog |
| 21:39.12 | Dagmar | By the time 2012 rolls around Sarah Palin might actually _be_ the proper choice for their party |
| 21:39.25 | Dagmar | This thought chills me to the bone. |
| 21:39.27 | olafski | mikma: maybe I will.. the "it's so because I said so" stuff ticks me off ;p |
| 21:39.28 | ZorbaTHut | kalroth, true |
| 21:39.37 | mikma | olafski: paste him something and you will have your reason =) |
| 21:39.46 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, I actually kind of hope the Republican party absolutely implodes. We desperately need a political shakeup around here |
| 21:39.59 | ZorbaTHut | and I'd go with a few election cycles of pure Democratic leadership if it meant we got a serious new party out of it. |
| 21:40.03 | Kalroth | ZorbaTHut: Well I mean, you can't put rewards up for everything you want companies to do, it'll be an endless cycle of handing out bones |
| 21:40.07 | Dagmar | I would rather they not implode. Without someone to keep teh dems in check I think things would be bad very quickly |
| 21:40.14 | Lunessa | I'll be happy in that event if it takes the other major party with it. |
| 21:40.20 | ZorbaTHut | kalroth, well, it's a balance - you put up rewards for some things and fees/fines for other things. |
| 21:40.26 | Dagmar | I would definitely rather they stop setting new standards for jackassery tho |
| 21:40.31 | ZorbaTHut | I mean, one of those fees is "doing business in the US" |
| 21:40.33 | olafski | zorbathut: I have no idea what cap-and-trade is.. and I'd love to discuss stuff like this but I really don't care enough to research if what I say makes enough sense.. for now I can just remain "immature" and dislike apple and like microsoft ;-) |
| 21:40.35 | ZorbaTHut | "you pay taxes, fuckers" |
| 21:40.40 | Kalroth | ZorbaTHut: Exactly, like everything else it's a balance of two sides :) |
| 21:40.49 | olafski | mikma: paste? hm |
| 21:40.51 | Lunessa | And coming in late to the discussion, I believe cap-and-trade is a solution in search of a problem. |
| 21:40.55 | ZorbaTHut | olafski, fair enough. if you want a description, lemme know. |
| 21:40.59 | Dagmar | Yeah I would have to agree with Lunessa there. If it took out the democrats and republicans at the same time we'd be in a lot better shape |
| 21:41.17 | olafski | zorbathut: I can look it up I guess ;) half of this discussion sounded like american politics to me, which I hardly follow at all |
| 21:41.23 | Dagmar | ...and tot he cap and trade thing |
| 21:41.26 | mikma | olafski: pick something you consider funny and paste it. you'll see =) |
| 21:41.35 | olafski | hm |
| 21:41.45 | ZorbaTHut | olafski, it's American terms, but I feel like the underlying issues are global constants |
| 21:41.48 | Dagmar | All that does is create markets for people to make a profit helping other people monetize their liability while continuing to pollute irresponsibly |
| 21:41.53 | olafski | I'm guessing that'll result in a "you wouldn't", mikma ;) |
| 21:41.57 | Dagmar | So, clearly a republican thing |
| 21:42.01 | Lunessa | Personally, I'd like a whole let less government for everyone. |
| 21:42.02 | Dagmar | j/k |
| 21:42.11 | Kalroth | Emissions trading is a beginning, but it's nowhere near the solution. It's a step to get companies to at least fix some of the shit they're causing and later on we can step it up. |
| 21:42.22 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, what do you mean "monetize their liability"? if they just don't give out enough pollution credits, then, hey, it's suddenly very expensive to keep polluting |
| 21:42.24 | olafski | republican/democrat always confuses me.. why can't you guys call it left/right like I do ;) |
| 21:42.26 | Kalroth | You can't just shut the world down |
| 21:42.45 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: I'm fine with that |
| 21:42.48 | olafski | cap and trade is emissions trading? now I am back on track :) |
| 21:42.48 | ZorbaTHut | olafski, left/right are terms that are used differently in different areas of the world |
| 21:42.54 | Kalroth | olafski: democrats = sane people, republicans = money grubbin' whores |
| 21:43.10 | foxlit | Because the entire one dimensional system is silly |
| 21:43.12 | olafski | kalroth: given the rest of the discussion you might think that I consider those the same ;) |
| 21:43.15 | Dagmar | There's companies trying to get carbon sequestration credits because they make concrete road dividers |
| 21:43.16 | ZorbaTHut | kalroth, republicans believe that the first thing you should do is lower taxes, and the second thing you should do is spend more. |
| 21:43.21 | ZorbaTHut | democrats believe in the exact opposite. |
| 21:43.24 | foxlit | You might as well have "the majority" and "the opposition" |
| 21:43.24 | Dagmar | ...and concrete absorbs CO2 as it cures. |
| 21:43.40 | NightHawkTheSane | ZorbaTHut: that's not strictly the case >.> |
| 21:43.43 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, sure, I'm fine with that. I mean, hell, if they're right, then we could use more concrete in the world. |
| 21:43.50 | mikma | olafski: either that, or some sort of "ooooold" with many more o's |
| 21:43.52 | ZorbaTHut | it helps the problem, doesn't it? :P |
| 21:43.56 | Kalroth | ZorbaTHut: What about lowering both taxes and spending? |
| 21:43.57 | olafski | mikma: :) |
| 21:43.57 | Dagmar | So what it amounts to is companies are coming up with new ways to define what they've been doing as counteracting pollution, and turning it into money |
| 21:44.00 | Dagmar | Which is dumb |
| 21:44.02 | Lunessa | I'm not convinced that "global anthropological climate change" is proven. I'm not convinced that we're destroying the world by heating it up. I am convinced that we're generating toxins and I can get behind solving that problem in a manner that doesn't destroy business and lives. |
| 21:44.04 | ZorbaTHut | kalroth, haha, we don't do that here in America |
| 21:44.26 | Dagmar | You should only get credits if your company _reduces_ it's' output, not just because you pollute less than your neighbor |
| 21:44.32 | olafski | I have a feeling politics gets more difficult with each year.. but perhaps it's just because I grow older.. a few years ago I was quite sure who I wanted to vote for, but lately I can't find a party here which I agree with so I don't vote |
| 21:44.37 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, no, why should that be the case at all? |
| 21:44.38 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: "destroy business" is one of those really fuzzy terms that gets propogandized a LOT |
| 21:44.43 | foxlit | Lunessa: out of interest, what kind of proof would be sufficient? |
| 21:44.50 | Dagmar | You could probably get carbon sequestration credits in a large enough company by sending out an HR memo forbidding your employees from farting on the job. |
| 21:44.50 | ZorbaTHut | Company A and Company B both make widgets. On the day of cap-and-trade, Company A produces less pollution than Company B. |
| 21:44.57 | ZorbaTHut | Should Company A not be rewarded for that? |
| 21:45.09 | Kalroth | I don't get why they dont apply maths to politics - take the average opinion of politicians and carry it out, no extremes, no black and white solutions |
| 21:45.10 | Lunessa | NightHawkTheSane: So does "saving the environment" and "being responsible" and "equality" and anything else you can make people notice. |
| 21:45.11 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (i=smcn@c-67-166-76-157.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:45.11 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: That's not the way it's working out tho |
| 21:45.19 | ZorbaTHut | Or should both companies go out of their way to *increase* pollution before C+T, just so they can both "reduce" it later? |
| 21:45.24 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: indeed. |
| 21:45.30 | Dagmar | Company C comes along, isn't actually doing anything that would normally involve pollution, gets credit for that and sells it to A |
| 21:45.38 | Lunessa | Kalroth: Because intelligence is not an additive quality. |
| 21:45.39 | ZorbaTHut | kalroth, democracy is four wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for dinner. |
| 21:46.06 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, cool. so now we reduce the amount of credits available, because we didn't take Company C's pollution reduction into account originally. now what? |
| 21:46.11 | Dagmar | It becomes clearer if instead of "pollution" we say "suprise butt sex" |
| 21:46.22 | ZorbaTHut | I mean if they *really are* reducing the amount of pollution, I see no reason not to reward them for it. |
| 21:46.24 | *** part/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 21:46.27 | Lunessa | Dagmar: Some people would sign up for that. |
| 21:46.34 | Dagmar | Everyone who isn't buggering someone else apparently can apply for anti buttsex credit, which they can sell to people who like suprise butt sex |
| 21:46.36 | Kalroth | ZorbaTHut: and capitalism is one wolf selling that lamb to the other three wolves. :p |
| 21:46.44 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 21:46.45 | Dagmar | ...this includes people who would never bugger anyone |
| 21:47.05 | Dagmar | Overnight, there's a cottage industry of people affirming that they will not bugger anyone, so they can get money from people who do. |
| 21:47.15 | Lunessa | I'm all for wolves. I just want everyone to quit being sheep. |
| 21:47.18 | ZorbaTHut | if it turns out that we care so much about pollution that it's a good idea to make huge amounts of concrete for no purpose other than to sequester CO2, and that *actually is a good idea*, then sure |
| 21:47.21 | Dagmar | There is no net reduction in buggery from this |
| 21:47.22 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, no, you're misphrasing it |
| 21:47.36 | ZorbaTHut | there's a cottage industry of people demonstrating that they have actually reduced the amount of buggery in the world |
| 21:47.40 | ZorbaTHut | and demonstrating so accurately, at that |
| 21:47.58 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: They're taking a side effect of their buisness that was there all along and claiming it as a credit |
| 21:48.00 | ZorbaTHut | now suddenly you realize, hey, there's already a lot of people preventing buggery, we hadn't realized this. perhaps the baseline buggery value is different from what we thought. |
| 21:48.16 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, so what? are you claiming that somehow concrete really *doesn't* sequester CO2? |
| 21:48.24 | Dagmar | It accommplishes nothing when this is allowed, but it does make a profit for the people brokering all this papershuffling. |
| 21:48.30 | Kalroth | Cap and trade is like, it's okay to shoot someone as long as you buy some homeless people soup. |
| 21:48.30 | ZorbaTHut | because if it does, then it should be subsidized based on that |
| 21:48.33 | Dagmar | It does but it's _always_ done this |
| 21:48.38 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, but again, so what? |
| 21:48.39 | olafski | kalroth: :D |
| 21:48.41 | ZorbaTHut | I mean, what's your goal here? |
| 21:48.44 | olafski | I love analogies |
| 21:48.48 | ZorbaTHut | is your goal to make certain large polluters pollute less? |
| 21:48.54 | ZorbaTHut | Or is your goal to reduce the total pollution? |
| 21:48.55 | Kalroth | Sadly it's needed, since they'd still shoot people even without cap and trade |
| 21:49.02 | ZorbaTHut | Because my goal is the latter. I don't care who does it as long as it gets done. |
| 21:49.07 | mikma | anal ogies |
| 21:49.08 | Dagmar | Reducing the total overall pollution is the goal. |
| 21:49.12 | ZorbaTHut | But it sounds like your goal is the former - you want to hurt the people who were pollution. |
| 21:49.14 | Dagmar | What's happening isn't really that |
| 21:49.20 | ZorbaTHut | Awesome. So why shouldn't we subsidize concrete? |
| 21:49.23 | olafski | mikma: do they do that anal [linkstuffhere] on your realm? :P |
| 21:49.32 | Dagmar | Because doing so isn't actually reducing anything |
| 21:49.39 | ZorbaTHut | Yes, it is! |
| 21:49.42 | mikma | olafski: aye, dirge dirge anal |
| 21:49.46 | ZorbaTHut | I mean, let's imagine we have two products available |
| 21:49.48 | ZorbaTHut | concrete and suckrete |
| 21:49.58 | ZorbaTHut | suckrete doesn't sequester anything, but it's a tiny fraction of a cent cheaper |
| 21:50.07 | Kalroth | Look, we all know what the real answer is. Move production of polluting products to third world countries and then only create mildly polluting things in the states. |
| 21:50.11 | olafski | mikma: such boring jokes ;p |
| 21:50.11 | ZorbaTHut | I'm a company. which do I buy? I buy suckrete, because I'm not stupid. |
| 21:50.23 | ZorbaTHut | On the other hand, if you can actually subsidize concrete slightly, then I buy concrete, because now it's cheaper. |
| 21:50.40 | ZorbaTHut | That's the point of the credits. Not giving money to random companies - actually *making ecological products cheaper*, and thus more commonly used. |
| 21:50.53 | Dagmar | Except it's not working out that way |
| 21:51.12 | ZorbaTHut | you keep saying that, but so far your complaint is just that the concrete companies are getting money for doing the exact thing that you claim you want them to do. |
| 21:51.14 | Dagmar | Companies are just paying the money in sequestration credit trades, instead of actually reducing their output |
| 21:51.34 | Dagmar | The system itself is just causing people to spend money to shift the blame until it's more evenly distributed |
| 21:51.44 | ZorbaTHut | Yes. That's what's meant to happen. They're paying extra money for the privilege of polluting. And the companies that are able to reduce their pollution cheaply are doing so. |
| 21:51.47 | Kalroth | Dagmar: Yeah, that is a big issue. |
| 21:51.54 | Lunessa | As long as I don't have to live in a house made of goddamned hay-bales and plaster, I still get $1 cheeseburgers, internet access, hot & cold running water and a car that seats 5 in comfort - I don't give a shit. |
| 21:51.56 | ZorbaTHut | There aren't many that do that, but there's enough that it's a significant force. |
| 21:52.02 | Dagmar | The new companies entering into this who would otherwise never have been involved in anything involving pollution issues leak all the value out of the mechanism |
| 21:52.04 | ZorbaTHut | Many companies will choose to just keep buying credits. That is totally okay. |
| 21:52.28 | ZorbaTHut | Alright, but so what? we release fewer credits, we cinch down on how much pollution we let out. |
| 21:52.36 | ZorbaTHut | So maybe we misestimated the original numbers - that's fixable. Easily. |
| 21:53.17 | Dagmar | I think they problem is that we're not being picky enough about disallowing certain types of trade |
| 21:53.22 | Dagmar | er trades of credits |
| 21:53.29 | ZorbaTHut | I mean, once again, we have Company A and Company B making widgets. Company B pays Company A a bunch of money for unused pollution credits. What's that going to do to Company B's prices? |
| 21:53.38 | olafski | lunessa++ ;) |
| 21:53.49 | ZorbaTHut | Well, they're going to go up, and they're going to be less profitable |
| 21:53.55 | Lunessa | King of IRC. :) |
| 21:53.59 | Dagmar | A company that doesn't have smokestacks shouldn't be allowed to trade it's lack of liability to a company that is pumping sulfur into the air |
| 21:54.03 | ZorbaTHut | and if they're competing directly, then they're going to lose out to the more efficient Company A. |
| 21:54.09 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, why not? |
| 21:54.23 | Dagmar | Now if a company that has smokestacks does something to reduce their output, THAT they should be allowed to sell to someone else |
| 21:54.26 | ZorbaTHut | are you seriously telling me that you think I shouldn't be able to start a company whose sole purpose is cleaning up the environment and selling credits? |
| 21:54.58 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: Right now, with a fancy enough lawyer, I could probably create a company that does *nothing* but gets carbon sequestration credits to sell |
| 21:55.09 | Dagmar | It's entirely possible this is already happening |
| 21:55.20 | ZorbaTHut | Sure. So your objection isn't to the idea of cap-and-trade |
| 21:55.24 | ZorbaTHut | it's to a slightly glitchy implementation |
| 21:55.30 | ZorbaTHut | so let's fix the glitches rather than throw out the entire thing, no? |
| 21:55.32 | foxlit | Allocate those credits based on the right criterion, and you don't have a problem. |
| 21:55.56 | Dagmar | Yeah, I don't mind the trading on a theoretical level. It's the practical fail that's bugging the hell out of me |
| 21:55.57 | foxlit | Like, say, amount of money your company pays in taxes dictates how many credits you get. |
| 21:56.39 | Lunessa | http://img49.yfrog.com/i/jr0j.jpg/ |
| 21:57.07 | ZorbaTHut | foxlit, that's reasonably clever. I like that idea. |
| 21:57.35 | Dagmar | I like it too. :) |
| 21:58.11 | olafski | so based on what do they get credits currently? |
| 21:58.19 | olafski | reading all of this I kind of assumed it worked that way :< |
| 21:58.45 | ZorbaTHut | olafski, generally, based on their political clout and how much they can convince the politicians they need 'em. |
| 21:58.51 | ZorbaTHut | I mean, there's some good arguments for that |
| 21:58.54 | olafski | that sounds odd |
| 21:59.03 | ZorbaTHut | without it, all the polluting companies just move into countries without a cap-and-trade system. |
| 21:59.18 | olafski | then again, if a ocmpany exists solely to reduce CO2 as you said they probably would not be paying much taxes |
| 21:59.31 | olafski | hm seems I have to go to bed.. nn |
| 21:59.35 | ZorbaTHut | and then you're stuck either throwing up your hands and saying "woop woop" or you're doing something horrible with trying to tax imports. |
| 21:59.55 | ZorbaTHut | 'nite |
| 22:02.34 | foxlit | I assume if you're quantifiably taking pollution out of the environment, you'd be able to get credits via the cap mechanism -- if you init negative pollution, you pay negative credits. |
| 22:02.41 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: that's pretty awesome |
| 22:02.43 | foxlit | s/init/emit/ |
| 22:03.00 | ZorbaTHut | foxlit, yep, that's pretty much how it's meant to work |
| 22:03.18 | ZorbaTHut | the ideal end-goal of cap and trade is when the government gives out literally zero credits and everything is done based on that |
| 22:05.16 | Lunessa | NHTS: The firefly thing? |
| 22:05.52 | foxlit | There's some part of wow event dispatch that I don't understand. |
| 22:06.14 | foxlit | I mess with bindings as part of OPie relatively heavily, and sometimes, events just vanish. |
| 22:06.32 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: yeah :) |
| 22:07.03 | Lunessa | NightHawkTheSane: follow NathanFillion on Twitter. |
| 22:07.14 | zenzelezz | ah, wiping on Onyxia... now there's a memory |
| 22:07.39 | foxlit | For instance, if, while mouselooking, I press on an OPie hotkey (calling MouselookStop()), and then release the right mouse button, I don't get the key up event for my proper binding. |
| 22:07.42 | Cruciformer | evening all |
| 22:07.49 | foxlit | Makes no bloody sense :( |
| 22:08.07 | Lunessa | Also: Felicia Day on "Lie to Me" - http://bit.ly/7vi4dz |
| 22:08.31 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: I think I may have to... >.> |
| 22:09.05 | NightHawkTheSane | how is lie to me, anyway? |
| 22:09.34 | Lunessa | NHTS - I can only stand it in small doses. I like Tim, but the premise of the show is WEAK |
| 22:09.39 | Cruciformer | its OK-ish. slightly exagerated premise but not a bad show. a bit bland but not exactly boring either. |
| 22:10.42 | Lunessa | But... Felicia Day was in an episode, and I have a serious geek crush on her. |
| 22:10.42 | Cruciformer | and theres just something about kelly williams |
| 22:10.42 | Cruciformer | its nice to see she's not quite as insipid as her character in the prqactice was. |
| 22:10.42 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: well who doesn't :P |
| 22:10.42 | Lunessa | Though I was totally cool and didn't gush when she stood near me at BlizzCon |
| 22:12.35 | Cruciformer | not a fan of felicia day. but I was sad when californication season ended. means I have almost a year to wait for my next installment of natascha mcelhone |
| 22:12.51 | Dagmar | More Felicia for me then |
| 22:13.07 | Cruciformer | u can have all of her :) |
| 22:13.14 | Dagmar | Oooo I would so like tta |
| 22:13.18 | Dagmar | s/tta/that/; |
| 22:13.19 | Legorol | For anyone that has killed (or tried) Saurfang in 25-man, I got a question: |
| 22:13.28 | VonhintenHOME` | She's awefully self-promoting, in all the interviews with her I've seen |
| 22:13.37 | Legorol | It appears to me that after he frenzies at 30%, the amount of blood power he gains from his various abilities seems tripled or so |
| 22:13.42 | Legorol | Has anyone else noticed this? |
| 22:14.07 | Dagmar | VonhintenHOME`: They have no staff is why. |
| 22:14.33 | VonhintenHOME` | Dagmar, Yeah, maybe, but it's a little off-putting. |
| 22:14.58 | Cruciformer | my fave geek-crush was gillian anderson in xfiles days |
| 22:15.13 | VonhintenHOME` | I'd still do gillian |
| 22:15.21 | Cruciformer | get in line :) |
| 22:15.49 | foxlit | Hey, it actually worked. |
| 22:16.09 | Cruciformer | and of course theres always Amanda tapping :) |
| 22:16.13 | Lunessa | VonhintenHOME`: in the field she's in, self-promotion is the only way to get noticed. |
| 22:16.15 | foxlit | Just incredible. |
| 22:17.20 | Cruciformer | Lunessa: And yet you dont see people like meryl streep, anthony hopkins, sean connery etc self-promoting so much, and they're in teh same business. |
| 22:17.22 | foxlit | Could I get a sanity check on the following theory? Only one button can be considered "down" for the purposes of firing "button up" OnClick events for a specific frame. |
| 22:17.27 | Cruciformer | sometimes quality just speaks for itself. |
| 22:17.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=muffins@pool-72-84-246-12.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) |
| 22:17.34 | zenzelezz | Cruciformer: seconded |
| 22:17.38 | Lunessa | foxlit: re your question ^^: I think when you call the MouselookStop() you lose the state information for your mouse key. |
| 22:17.42 | foxlit | So if you were to say get two "button down" events, you'd only get the first "button up" event -- the second would get lost |
| 22:18.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Doow (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/doow) |
| 22:18.14 | Cruciformer | foxlit: that would not make any sense at all to me. |
| 22:18.43 | foxlit | Cruciformer: imagine an "is button down?" boolean attached to every OnClick handle. |
| 22:18.44 | zenzelezz | I may have overly high hopes for PUGs, but leaving the Ony25 tank without a shaman in phase 3 seems silly |
| 22:18.47 | Lunessa | Cruciformer: You just named people with 30+ years in the business and a solid foundation to their careers. Not someone trying to claw their way in without fucking every casting director in Hollywood |
| 22:18.53 | foxlit | You only get the up dispatch if you had that flag set. |
| 22:19.07 | NightHawkTheSane | zenzelezz: depends, is it a warrior? |
| 22:19.11 | zenzelezz | yes |
| 22:19.16 | Cruciformer | Lunessa: you make a good point there |
| 22:19.22 | foxlit | But I'll be very happy if you could confirm or provide a counterexample, because I'm mainly grasping at straws. |
| 22:19.32 | zenzelezz | my cooldown is too long to hope I can hit every fear |
| 22:19.52 | NightHawkTheSane | no, but you can hit probably halfish |
| 22:19.56 | zenzelezz | half, yes |
| 22:19.58 | Lunessa | Cruciformer: And look at some of the shitty movies they had to make to get there. :) |
| 22:20.04 | zenzelezz | but with these PUG healers, I get killed by one hit in the back :) |
| 22:20.17 | zenzelezz | in a guild run I might be okay |
| 22:20.18 | NightHawkTheSane | zenzelezz: either way, its not impossible, even w/o a warrior tank. but perhaps a bit silly. :) |
| 22:20.48 | VonhintenHOME` | Lunessa, I like her despite her self-agrandizing... she needs to fuck more casting directors |
| 22:20.49 | zenzelezz | yeah, I'm not saying it can't be done... but we had like three shamans in the raid :) |
| 22:20.55 | Cruciformer | Lunessa: some of the young actors didnt seem to need to self-promote quite the same way, luke perry was a good example. malcolm jamahl-warner too. |
| 22:21.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Doow (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/doow) |
| 22:21.19 | Cruciformer | i mention those two coz im rewatching jeremiah :) |
| 22:21.45 | foxlit | And I can reproduce it. Joy. |
| 22:21.53 | zenzelezz | Sidekick Luke Perry? Who we've mostly not heard of since 90210? |
| 22:23.07 | Cruciformer | zenzelezz: he did jeremiah which was highly underated |
| 22:23.34 | Lunessa | Cruciformer: They also were tied into a wave of shitty 80s tv |
| 22:24.09 | Jerub | yay. i caught a video of our wipe on anub in toc10. |
| 22:24.15 | Jerub | .... :) |
| 22:24.26 | Cruciformer | omg ... I just squashed some big-ass bug and it must have been some kinda stink bug coz my office smells like a sewage processing plant in new delhi after free curry night |
| 22:24.44 | foxlit | http://pastey.net/130365 |
| 22:25.53 | VonhintenHOME` | Cruciformer, probably means it came up through the pipes |
| 22:26.24 | Cruciformer | it was som weird-ass looking flying thing. never seen a bug like it. we get some exotic shit down here in africa. |
| 22:32.10 | foxlit | Hm, now it works except if I require left clicks :/ |
| 22:32.39 | foxlit | Because if I overlay a button that consumes left click up events over the screen while in mouselook, you won't be able to cancel mouselook. |
| 22:34.05 | Cruciformer | foxlit; isnt this a solved problem? devtools never seems to interfere with anything, and it uses mouselook doesnt it/ |
| 22:34.28 | foxlit | devtools can be clicked on? |
| 22:34.54 | foxlit | [I'm not quite sure what exactly you're referring to] |
| 22:35.03 | Cruciformer | part of it can like the events frame. Im not sure what you are trying to do :) |
| 22:35.08 | *** part/#wowuidev mitchnull (n=mitchnul@catv3EC944A1.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 22:35.50 | foxlit | I'm not sure how that involves mouselook. |
| 22:36.29 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: are you trying to handle the case where someone activates opie while mouselooking? |
| 22:36.31 | foxlit | The problem is that I occasionally register bindings (or drop a clickable frame under the mouse) that capture the left mouse button |
| 22:36.42 | foxlit | NightHawkTheSane: yes, basically. |
| 22:36.54 | NightHawkTheSane | nods |
| 22:37.09 | foxlit | Except for mouselook, itself, is okay -- that's apparently holding the right mouse button. |
| 22:37.25 | foxlit | I can get you out of it with MouselookStop, so things work wonderfully (or will work wonderfully) |
| 22:37.31 | foxlit | What I can't get you out of is camera rotation. |
| 22:37.51 | foxlit | Because CameraOrSelectOrMoveOrFetchMeAStandwichStop() is protected. |
| 22:37.56 | Cruciformer | foxlit: never mind I completely misunderstood what mouselook mode was I was thinking of something else entirely. |
| 22:38.14 | NightHawkTheSane | ... wait.. that method can get me a sandwich? |
| 22:38.30 | foxlit | No, I'm just commenting on how it does a bazillion things, not all of which should be protected. |
| 22:38.35 | NightHawkTheSane | i know ;) |
| 22:39.01 | foxlit | I can't detect whether you're in that mode from within the restricted environment, and if I decide to capture the left mouse button, you're stuck. |
| 22:39.57 | foxlit | You cannot move the cursor while in that mode; I'll get the "left mouse button is up!" event, use some (arbitrary) action, close the ring, and leave you stuck in camera rotation witha released LMB |
| 22:41.08 | Cruciformer | "cant detect if youre in that mode frin withing the restricted environment" ... IsMouselooking()not any help? |
| 22:41.54 | foxlit | Cruciformer: camera rotation (left mouse button) is not mouse look (right mouse button). Nor is that API available from within the restricted environment. |
| 22:42.18 | zenzelezz | peculiar |
| 22:42.32 | Cruciformer | k. pardon my ignorance but what "restricted environment"? |
| 22:43.04 | foxlit | A framework that allows limited addon code to run in a secure context. |
| 22:43.14 | foxlit | Basically, it's what I use to be able to alter your bindings in combat. |
| 22:43.15 | zenzelezz | foxlit: is this in or out of combat? |
| 22:43.36 | foxlit | zenzelezz: let's say in. |
| 22:44.17 | zenzelezz | cause I think I've activated opie when left-looking out of combat without trouble; but my main computer's off right now so I can't verify |
| 22:44.40 | zenzelezz | my memory is likely to be hazy |
| 22:45.08 | foxlit | zenzelezz: You're okay as long as you don't use the "activate on left click" option |
| 22:45.14 | Cruciformer | oooh theres a youtube video about OPie that has one of my fave grendel songs as its soundtrack :) |
| 22:45.17 | zenzelezz | oh, that would explain it |
| 22:48.25 | Shirik | ok guys, fun question |
| 22:48.54 | Shirik | Assume you have a set of values ranging from 0 to 1 which basically designate a "no" or "yes" answer on a spectrum of confidence |
| 22:49.14 | Shirik | What are some ways to combine those answers together? |
| 22:49.17 | Shirik | into a final solution |
| 22:49.18 | Cruciformer | I hate to break it to you but the question is already not-fun :P |
| 22:49.24 | Shirik | I already have weighted sum exponent |
| 22:49.27 | Shirik | Need more choices |
| 22:49.41 | Shirik | weighted mean exponent* |
| 22:49.49 | cbreak | Shirik: you want to evaluate a questionaire |
| 22:49.50 | Shirik | oh come on, Cruciformer, it's related to genetic algorithms! |
| 22:49.57 | zenzelezz | Shirik: (int)answer |
| 22:50.02 | Shirik | lol zenzelezz |
| 22:50.05 | foxlit | return 4; |
| 22:50.15 | Dagmar | "Yeeeahhhno", "Maybe", "Possibly", "Stay off drugs, man", and "Likely" |
| 22:50.21 | cbreak | they are usually scaled to a unit and then weighted, to get various results |
| 22:50.22 | Shirik | you guys suck :( |
| 22:50.33 | cbreak | making questionaires is hard though |
| 22:50.41 | cbreak | so we used pre-made ones in our research |
| 22:50.41 | zenzelezz | we're coders, not statisticians |
| 22:50.54 | zenzelezz | if that's even a word |
| 22:50.54 | Shirik | cbreak / zenzelezz: This is for a genetic algorithm. One of the chromosomes is "how to join the decisions together" |
| 22:51.03 | Shirik | I need other choices which can be fed into the pool |
| 22:51.20 | Shadowed | Shirik: When a male chromosome and a female chromosome love each other very much... |
| 22:51.31 | Cruciformer | lol |
| 22:51.54 | zenzelezz | I bet Cairenn could help you with this |
| 22:51.59 | Shirik | >< |
| 22:52.02 | Shadowed | haha |
| 22:52.08 | cbreak | well, basic methods is scale and weight |
| 22:52.15 | cbreak | so the result would be a linear combination |
| 22:52.19 | Shirik | right |
| 22:52.22 | Cruciformer | zenzelezz: with which bit? the male chromosome loving the female one very much? :P |
| 22:52.32 | cbreak | do you want a nonlinear dependency? |
| 22:52.39 | cbreak | might not make much sense with binary answers |
| 22:54.38 | Shirik | cbreak: actually it makes perfect sense |
| 22:54.44 | Shirik | nonlinear dependency would be potentially beneficial |
| 22:55.00 | Shirik | It is VERY POSSIBLE that only one person saying "yes" should result in a "yes" |
| 22:55.02 | cbreak | with binary answers you get two possible inputs |
| 22:55.27 | Shirik | I can't tell you, I haven't done the millions of evolutions required to determine the optimial solution for my current sample set |
| 22:55.31 | cbreak | ah, you mean combining several surveys into a final result |
| 22:55.33 | Shirik | that is something my program will do :P |
| 22:56.04 | cbreak | was thinking of combining the answers of one person's survey into the survey's result |
| 22:57.10 | Shirik | hm? |
| 22:57.20 | Shirik | and btw they aren't binary answers |
| 22:57.21 | cbreak | was thinking about something else |
| 22:57.23 | Shirik | it is a scale from 0 to 1 |
| 22:57.34 | cbreak | so you can answer 0.2? |
| 22:57.38 | Shirik | yup |
| 22:57.43 | cbreak | interesting |
| 22:58.01 | Shirik | I mean theoretically it could be a scale much larger than 0 to 1 |
| 22:58.06 | Shirik | it's just easier to conceptualize that way |
| 22:58.06 | cbreak | I was thinking about questionaires. In most of those you can only answer in very few grades |
| 22:58.13 | Shirik | because 0 still means "definitely no" and 1 still means "definitely yes" |
| 22:58.27 | Shirik | but there's also things in between |
| 22:58.37 | Shirik | and the actual values 0 and 1 are actually rather unlikely to happen |
| 22:58.52 | cbreak | one person's 2 on a scale from 0 to 5 might mean something different than some other person's 2 |
| 22:59.06 | Shirik | That's a problem for evolution to work out |
| 22:59.08 | Shirik | not me |
| 22:59.21 | Adys | http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2009/12/debunking-psychology/ |
| 22:59.25 | cbreak | if you ask people "did you like this movie", I think many will answer 0 or 1 |
| 22:59.42 | Shirik | this isn't people btw :P |
| 22:59.57 | Shirik | This is an AI genetic algorithm |
| 23:00.02 | cbreak | (Adys: I had to work together with pysology students for that project I did... they spoke more like statisticians though) |
| 23:00.19 | cbreak | for some reason they loved SPSS |
| 23:00.57 | Adys | cbreak: abutwhat? |
| 23:01.05 | cbreak | visual perception |
| 23:01.16 | cbreak | they had to fill out questionaires about how tired they are |
| 23:01.18 | Shirik | oh god SPSS |
| 23:01.30 | Shirik | I remember that |
| 23:01.33 | cbreak | I left the work with spss to my partner... way too confusing |
| 23:02.00 | Lunessa | cbreak: SPSS - I hate it. Not because of the merits of the application/toolset - but because the Licensing is SHIT and CRUEL |
| 23:02.20 | Shirik | Lunessa sounds like a very angry admin |
| 23:02.28 | Lunessa | And they take forever negotiating the renewals. |
| 23:02.45 | cbreak | it's very expensive |
| 23:02.55 | cbreak | but it's license management stuff is not as bad |
| 23:03.05 | cbreak | as that from Statistica |
| 23:03.09 | NightHawkTheSane | sudo apt-get install meld |
| 23:03.11 | NightHawkTheSane | ... goddammit |
| 23:03.13 | Lunessa | And when I have 100 professors screaming that vital work is being left undone because the tool won't load because the licensing isn't renewed yet... ARGH |
| 23:03.20 | NightHawkTheSane | needs to pay more attention to where he's typing commands |
| 23:03.37 | cbreak | Lunessa: it is possible to get a 2 week temporary renewal I think |
| 23:04.00 | cbreak | NightHawkTheSane: please enter root password |
| 23:04.03 | Lunessa | cbreak: I know. And then they take more than 2 weeks to finish the new contract. |
| 23:04.08 | Lunessa | It's maddening. |
| 23:04.33 | cbreak | luckily I only had to make installer packets for the deployment system and not do the contract stuff :) |
| 23:04.33 | NeoTron | interesting. two of the most annoying-when-geared bosses are now less annoying |
| 23:04.37 | cbreak | (was some other job) |
| 23:05.55 | NightHawkTheSane | NeoTron: i saw that. thank fucking god. >< |
| 23:06.00 | NightHawkTheSane | ionar wasn't hard, just annoying as fuck |
| 23:08.01 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (n=nuoHep@89.222.156.36) |
| 23:08.50 | foxlit | ionar needs a cooldown on the split. |
| 23:09.01 | foxlit | To heck with that potentially trivializing content, he's trivialized anyway |
| 23:10.13 | *** join/#wowuidev taleden (n=alex@user-38q41i6.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 23:10.25 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: er. did you see the hotfix the put in? |
| 23:10.42 | foxlit | NightHawkTheSane: no? |
| 23:10.49 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: ionar only splits once now |
| 23:10.57 | foxlit | Well, that's nice. |
| 23:11.20 | NightHawkTheSane | and the last boss of DTK only does his fuck-you-you're-a-skeleton-now thing once too |
| 23:11.36 | foxlit | That thing was pointless as heck |
| 23:11.43 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah. but fun at least |
| 23:11.47 | WobWork | wtf? |
| 23:11.50 | NightHawkTheSane | or.. well, mildly diverting |
| 23:11.58 | WobWork | wow, talk about trivialisation |
| 23:12.07 | foxlit | Seriously. "We have this cool new tech and we have no idea what to use it for. Let's mess with the players in a mild fashion." |
| 23:12.09 | WobWork | have they put in fast forward buttons for talky content? |
| 23:12.15 | WobWork | like Culling? |
| 23:12.36 | WobWork | it could be all like "Arthas: Hey everyone! BURNY TIEM!!" |
| 23:12.36 | NightHawkTheSane | WobWork: there was a thread about that i just read actually, i guess they kind of want to, but can't currently |
| 23:12.49 | Cruciformer | god the season finale of dexter was good |
| 23:13.16 | NightHawkTheSane | http://blue.mmo-champion.com/1/21971448612-cos--let-us-skip-the-dialogue.html |
| 23:14.20 | Dewin | NightHawkTheSane: They do it with HoR and ToC, why can't they do it for CoS? |
| 23:14.40 | kd3 | read the link |
| 23:14.46 | Dewin | I can see "Hey, Arthas, I hear the people in Stratholme are turning into zombies. Shouldn't we be doing something about them right about now?" |
| 23:14.58 | Dewin | ah. |
| 23:15.00 | foxlit | No. |
| 23:15.10 | foxlit | It's going to be "Chromie, fast forward to the point where we murder people" |
| 23:15.12 | Dagmar | Why would that ever happen |
| 23:15.42 | ZorbaTHut | the timer in CoS is the problem |
| 23:15.47 | Dagmar | 1. Picking up crates is a no-brainer that barely slows you down |
| 23:15.54 | WobWork | on the one hand, "In my day... <rant rant wave stick>" |
| 23:16.00 | Lunessa | Dear Chromie, I realize you're stretched thin being in many places and times, but would you mind terribly letting me get on with the slaughter bit? |
| 23:16.02 | foxlit | ZorbaTHut: how so? |
| 23:16.03 | Dagmar | 2. Athas didn't wait for people to turn into zombies. That was THE POINT |
| 23:16.08 | WobWork | on the other lulz moar badgez |
| 23:16.20 | WobWork | the wait between bosses |
| 23:16.22 | WobWork | is irritating |
| 23:16.30 | ZorbaTHut | foxlit, it keeps them from skipping the later cutscenes, and it may be part of the reason they can't easily skip the earlier ones also |
| 23:16.35 | WobWork | Dagmar: It's not so much the crates |
| 23:16.47 | Lunessa | ok, I'm outta here. Ciao tutti |
| 23:16.55 | WobWork | Dagmar: it's the "Arthas: We must burn strathholme." "Jaina: Crai" |
| 23:16.57 | foxlit | ZorbaTHut: I don't imagine those cutscenes are the cause of much whining. |
| 23:17.11 | foxlit | It's the "Hey, Uther, come burn this place with me" |
| 23:17.12 | Dagmar | \WobWork: Do what we do. Go on inside and buff/eat |
| 23:17.16 | ZorbaTHut | well, the first one certainly is. I'd prefer if they could all be removed ;) |
| 23:17.21 | WobWork | Dagmar: I've already done that |
| 23:17.26 | WobWork | Then we have to wait for the whole talky |
| 23:17.27 | NightHawkTheSane | Dewin: I suspect it might be because they're not recording who's seen the cutseen or not, which they do in HoR/ToC |
| 23:17.31 | Dagmar | After a minute or two, Athas shows up, we start killing |
| 23:17.34 | WobWork | then for arthas to run into Strath |
| 23:17.40 | WobWork | and then the whole mal'ganis scene |
| 23:17.48 | Dewin | NHTS: The cheap way out would be to check to see if they have the achie |
| 23:17.52 | WobWork | Buffing only takes about 5 seconds =P |
| 23:18.06 | foxlit | Dewin: depends on whether they have the infrastructure for that |
| 23:18.14 | NightHawkTheSane | Dewin: *shrug* in theory. dunno what their code looks like so I dunno how feasible that is. |
| 23:18.17 | foxlit | Could be that the interaction servers don't keep track of your achievements. |
| 23:18.17 | WobWork | I want to get the damn instance over, get my badges and out of there |
| 23:18.21 | Dewin | True. |
| 23:18.30 | foxlit | WobWork: it's still a fast instance with plenty of badges. |
| 23:18.34 | WobWork | well, they -can- manipulate how interactions fire |
| 23:18.35 | Dewin | WobWork: I now laugh at people who bail on Occulus automatically when it comes up on random. |
| 23:18.39 | WobWork | look at ToC |
| 23:18.40 | Dagmar | God forbid anyone have to wait for other people to pack bowls and pour drinks |
| 23:19.02 | Dewin | Have you ever checked your combat log for deaths after killing Saurfang in ICC? There's some... very obvious hacks in there. |
| 23:19.06 | foxlit | WobWork: might be flags entirely unrelated to achievements. |
| 23:19.32 | Dewin | see http://www.wowhead.com/?search=Martyr+Stalker |
| 23:19.35 | WobWork | foxlit: well, not really in regards to achievements, more speech choices |
| 23:19.36 | foxlit | But yeah, I'm sure if someone said "here's a bag of money, go fix it", its not impossible. |
| 23:20.23 | Dagmar | Vampiric Batling [PH} |
| 23:20.51 | Dewin | Martyr Stalker beats that. Kill Saurfang and Martyr Stalker dies twice. (I also noticed Saurfang dies when he still has 150k+ HP) |
| 23:20.54 | WobWork | Dewin: my main concern with Occulus, is that it's not as fast as the others due to the drake mechanic, where your gear doesn't -really- affect the dps per se |
| 23:21.09 | Dagmar | Dawin: More likely, two of them die |
| 23:21.11 | WobWork | sure it affects drake scaling |
| 23:21.12 | Dewin | WobWork: I got the 20 minute achievement in there with a pug... |
| 23:21.20 | Dagmar | You *do* know what an Invisible Stalker is, right? |
| 23:21.22 | WobWork | oh so did I =P |
| 23:21.25 | Dewin | Dagmar: It is two, one of each (IGB/Saurfang and Reputation) |
| 23:21.42 | WobWork | And Amber void |
| 23:21.52 | WobWork | and experienced Drake Rider |
| 23:21.56 | Dewin | I think Saurfang doesn't 'die' properly, so to end the encounter and properly grant achievements and reputation it kills some dummy NPCs instead |
| 23:22.14 | Dagmar | ...which also nicely sidesteps any more Martin Fury bullshit. |
| 23:22.24 | WobWork | Dewin: "Saurfang pulls an unsuspecting minion in front of him to take his killing blow..." |
| 23:22.30 | WobWork | *YOINK* |
| 23:23.03 | foxlit | I find it funny that they decided to voice him in Orcish for the alliance. |
| 23:23.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (n=chatzill@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 23:27.17 | WobWork | So they don't understand a word he says? |
| 23:27.29 | foxlit | It's just one phrase, but that's the net effect. |
| 23:27.36 | Gnarfoz | wonder what he says |
| 23:27.44 | cbreak | "Argh!" |
| 23:27.54 | Gnarfoz | AUGH DEAD SON TIME? |
| 23:28.00 | cbreak | "Not in the face!" |
| 23:28.19 | cbreak | "Look, over there, a three headed monkey!" |
| 23:28.30 | Gnarfoz | wrong game |
| 23:28.40 | Gnarfoz | wrong *genre* even |
| 23:28.53 | Dagmar | "Klaatu, verada, nerhrmhrm" |
| 23:29.18 | cbreak | nikto |
| 23:29.24 | WobWork | ~dagmar++ |
| 23:29.27 | cbreak | or so? |
| 23:29.46 | Jerub | charges his phone |
| 23:29.50 | Jerub | s/phone/authenticator/ |
| 23:30.03 | foxlit | wiki fails, they don't record his silly line :( |
| 23:30.23 | WobWork | Although it's Klaatu Barada |
| 23:30.44 | WobWork | isn't it? |
| 23:31.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Tinyboom (n=nahh@ti0121a340-dhcp0974.bb.online.no) |
| 23:33.00 | NightHawkTheSane | http://kottke.org/09/12/the-known-universe? |
| 23:33.42 | Dagmar | WobWork: Being that it's made-up nonsense to begin with, does it really matter how we spell it ON IRC? |
| 23:34.10 | WobWork | Dagmar: That's the sort of attitude that accidentally raises marauding zombie armies =( |
| 23:34.20 | WobWork | ~Dagmar-- |
| 23:34.26 | Dagmar | Yes but it's not nearly as boring as the lack of them |
| 23:37.38 | WobWork | Katmouse is the best freeware program for a issue you never thought you actually had, ever |
| 23:37.40 | WobWork | (for windows) |
| 23:39.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Zyn (n=zyn@h243n2-av-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 23:44.09 | NightHawkTheSane | http://i.imgur.com/5giN4.jpg |
| 23:44.32 | AbsolutRayne | Hmmm |
| 23:44.39 | AbsolutRayne | Random Heroics or Inglorious Basterds |
| 23:44.49 | p3lim | lua> n='test-something' print(string.match(n, '(.+)-(.*)')) |
| 23:44.49 | lua_bot | p3lim: test, something |
| 23:44.59 | p3lim | lua> n='test' print(string.match(n, '(.+)-(.*)')) |
| 23:44.59 | lua_bot | p3lim: nil |
| 23:45.19 | foxlit | - is a metacharacter. |
| 23:45.28 | NightHawkTheSane | AbsolutRayne: the latter while doing the first |
| 23:45.46 | WobWork | this ^ |
| 23:45.51 | foxlit | Though it's not a problem for you there. |
| 23:45.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Cidan (n=alobato@216.52.121.66) |
| 23:46.16 | AbsolutRayne | I just need to get my 2 daily Frost Emblems, thats all I really care for. :B |
| 23:46.27 | AbsolutRayne | Then its back to hunting WoWI for words >.< |
| 23:46.29 | p3lim | foxlit: how do I use the - character then? |
| 23:46.30 | Jerub | I had a tradegy this morning. |
| 23:46.41 | foxlit | Escape it as you would any other metacharacter |
| 23:46.44 | foxlit | %- |
| 23:46.47 | Jerub | I queued for LFD, and got into H VH on wave 14/18 for my first dungeon of the day. |
| 23:47.10 | foxlit | Jerub: you should get a X/Y bosses down? |
| 23:47.11 | Jerub | 15 minutes late for work became 5 minutes late to work :) |
| 23:48.02 | WobWork | this is a good thing, no? |
| 23:48.16 | NightHawkTheSane | well, it's 10 extra minutes at work... :P |
| 23:48.33 | AbsolutRayne | My cat is eating a cheese doodle. |
| 23:48.45 | p3lim | foxlit: ive read a few tutorials, none of them said - was a metacharacter |
| 23:48.58 | foxlit | p3lim: observe the shock, the horror: |
| 23:49.10 | foxlit | lua> ("foo-bar"):match("foo-") |
| 23:49.10 | lua_bot | foxlit: fo |
| 23:49.35 | p3lim | well, its only a metacharacter if its followed by something |
| 23:49.54 | p3lim | (.+) will not make it a metacharacter, will it? |
| 23:49.55 | foxlit | Notice it was the last character in the pattern. |
| 23:50.15 | foxlit | No. Lua does not do proper kleene closures. |
| 23:50.18 | NightHawkTheSane | er, - does something similar to *? in pcre, yes? |
| 23:50.26 | foxlit | It's non-greedy zero-or-more. |
| 23:50.40 | NightHawkTheSane | right, so it doesn't matter what's AFTER it, only what's before it |
| 23:50.49 | foxlit | Right. |
| 23:51.18 | Jerub | foxlit: you only get X/Y if you queue for a specific dungeon. |
| 23:51.24 | Jerub | foxlit: if it's random you just get launched into it. |
| 23:51.53 | foxlit | Jerub: oh? Well, I only do one a day, and so far they've all been brand new groups. |
| 23:53.20 | Jerub | yay, after a fortuitous drop last night in toc10, I'm down to 1 trinket 1 cloak at ilvl 200 |
| 23:53.37 | Jerub | i swear, cloak is the hardest slot to get upgrades for |
| 23:53.43 | foxlit | toc10 has good trinkets? |
| 23:53.51 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: not really. |
| 23:53.58 | NightHawkTheSane | but it has acceptable ones |
| 23:53.59 | cbreak | the last boss has a great caster trinket in 25 |
| 23:54.04 | cbreak | not sure if there's a 10 version |
| 23:54.08 | foxlit | Jerub: it's now officially the easiest. Frost badges have cloaks on them, good ones. |
| 23:54.11 | NightHawkTheSane | cbreak: 25 has -great- trinkets. 10.. not so much |
| 23:54.11 | cbreak | and the one you can get for badges is nice too |
| 23:54.19 | Jerub | I think http://www.wowhead.com/?item=49792 is going on my list. |
| 23:54.31 | NightHawkTheSane | I desperately need a solace of the fallen :( |
| 23:54.34 | Jerub | I need tank trinkets. |
| 23:54.44 | Jerub | my caster has a matched pair of scales from ony. |
| 23:54.45 | NightHawkTheSane | my soul of the dead is showing its age |
| 23:55.02 | Jerub | total: +222 sp, 500 hp5, 90 mp5. |
| 23:55.05 | foxlit | I've picked up a +hit offhand as a healer. |
| 23:55.10 | foxlit | 'cause heals can totally miss you! |
| 23:55.20 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: the one from toc10? |
| 23:55.23 | Jerub | the +hit offhand is basically the only caster offhand. |
| 23:55.24 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah i have that on my druid too |
| 23:55.29 | foxlit | NightHawkTheSane: icc10 |
| 23:55.32 | NightHawkTheSane | ahh |
| 23:55.43 | Jerub | http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47913 |
| 23:55.47 | Jerub | ooh, icc10. |
| 23:55.57 | NightHawkTheSane | Jerub: hm, thats not too shabby actually. if those scales ever dropped I might consider it |
| 23:56.01 | Jerub | lightbane focus is the one i was thinking of. |
| 23:56.02 | foxlit | http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50781 |
| 23:56.10 | NightHawkTheSane | Jerub: same |
| 23:56.25 | Jerub | NHTS: the annoying part is that upgrading is a pain, because you never want to break the pair. |
| 23:56.41 | foxlit | I'm STILL hunting for the second ony trinket. |
| 23:56.44 | Jerub | but there's a +111 sp trinket in icc osmewhere which is a decent upgrade path |
| 23:56.44 | foxlit | Curse you, other healers! |
| 23:56.45 | Nechckn | Now you can implode your heart by eating a simply BLT w/ Baconaise and BaconSalt! http://www.thinkgeek.com/caffeine/wacky-edibles/c4e9/ |
| 23:56.57 | WobWork | Nevermelting? |
| 23:56.57 | Jerub | foxlit: I was exceptionally lucky. Got both in 5 runs |
| 23:57.08 | foxlit | Jerub: I've seen it thrice now, I think. |
| 23:57.16 | foxlit | rolls a 2. |
| 23:57.26 | Jerub | foxlit: what's annoying is that 25ony and 10ony have a different set |
| 23:57.32 | foxlit | Jerub: that too. |
| 23:57.37 | NightHawkTheSane | Jerub: yeah, i'm kind ahappy to stick with my Illustration of the dragon soul & Soul of the dead for now. They both hold up REALLY well |
| 23:57.44 | Jerub | so if you get the 25ony and the 10ony one, they don't make set. |
| 23:58.54 | Jerub | i'm just happy that raidbuffed i get over 3000sp now :) |
| 23:59.03 | Jerub | my tree is superhappy. |
| 23:59.41 | NightHawkTheSane | hmm.. actually, i'm not sure i'll find a trinket to match the thruput of illustration from a non-25 instance.. |
