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| 00:10.55 | Shirik | tackles Seerah1 |
| 00:13.36 | cog|work | Wave will revolutionize marital spats imo... |
| 00:15.07 | Adys | oh yes |
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| 00:23.18 | Shirik | marital spats? |
| 00:23.24 | Shirik | oh btw cog|work did you see this? |
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| 00:23.59 | Shirik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcxF9oz9Cu0 (nsfw) |
| 00:24.11 | cog|work | Shirik: if arguments were in waves, there would never be any question of who said what when ;) |
| 00:24.12 | Shirik | I leave it to your imagination how you can turn the use of google wave into nsfw |
| 00:24.21 | Shirik | that's not true |
| 00:24.26 | Shirik | I can modify all of your arguments |
| 00:24.37 | cog|work | and those modifications will show up in the timeline... |
| 00:24.44 | Shirik | oh yeah |
| 00:24.47 | cog|work | and yes, i posted that on fb yesterday :) |
| 00:25.04 | cog|work | but it had the actual Pulp Fiction soundtrack behind it |
| 00:25.14 | Shirik | oh mine did too |
| 00:25.19 | Shirik | I didn't play this, just took the first one |
| 00:25.24 | cog|work | oh never mind |
| 00:25.26 | Shirik | must have grabbed the wrong one |
| 00:25.29 | cog|work | only had my right headphone on |
| 00:25.33 | Shirik | lol |
| 00:25.47 | Shirik | you know what's really scary |
| 00:25.56 | Shirik | I took this test that plays a 17kHz signal through your headset |
| 00:26.13 | Shirik | And I said to myself "huh, I can hear it, but they must be doing something wierd it's only coming through the right ear" |
| 00:26.24 | WobWork | =( |
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| 00:26.34 | Shirik | After a little time I realized it was playing in both |
| 00:26.42 | Shirik | I just can't hear it in my left ear |
| 00:26.49 | Shirik | I must be on the edge of still being a kid |
| 00:27.22 | cog|work | Shirik: this line from bones sums up why wave will help: I suffer from a kind of chronological dyslexia that makes it difficult for me to place discrete events accurately on a linear timeline. |
| 00:27.58 | cog|work | time for home! |
| 00:28.21 | WobWork | Shirik: Or you've gone deaf in one ear |
| 00:28.28 | Shirik | uh |
| 00:28.36 | ZorbaGama | I've often suspected that just logging everything said by anyone would either reduce arguments enormously, or hugely, hugely increase them |
| 00:28.37 | WobWork | speaks up |
| 00:28.40 | WobWork | Shirik: Or you've gone deaf in one ear! |
| 00:28.40 | Shirik | considering I hear everything else just fine through that ear, I'm pretty sure that'se not it |
| 00:28.42 | ZorbaGama | I've always been rather curious which way |
| 00:28.46 | Shirik | ~stab WobWork |
| 00:28.47 | purl | ACTION runs at WobWork with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut. |
| 00:28.50 | WobWork | hehe =) |
| 00:29.20 | WobWork | Shirik: or just deafer =P |
| 00:29.22 | cog|away | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:29.32 | WobWork | what's that page link, Shirik? |
| 00:29.44 | WobWork | I think I got up to 19 |
| 00:30.04 | cog|away | I couldn't even stay in a particular exam room at a Dr.'s office because some really old CRT was giving me a splitting headache (and it didn't help i was there because of occular migrane) |
| 00:30.12 | cog|away | no one else could hear it |
| 00:30.12 | WobWork | cog|away: ugh >< |
| 00:30.18 | WobWork | I hate that whine |
| 00:30.34 | Shirik | I don't remember unfortunately WobWork |
| 00:30.39 | cog|away | time for home for real... |
| 00:30.48 | WobWork | shyeah right =P |
| 00:30.56 | Shirik | and yeah |
| 00:31.05 | Shirik | those CRT noises, especially when the screen is black |
| 00:31.08 | Shirik | but it's still on |
| 00:31.10 | Shirik | like no signal |
| 00:31.26 | Shirik | people used to call me crazy |
| 00:31.46 | WobWork | well, we're never gonna survive |
| 00:31.48 | WobWork | unless |
| 00:31.51 | WobWork | we get a little crazy |
| 00:32.01 | Shirik | everybody, loosey |
| 00:34.50 | Shirik | ããã»ãããï½ï½ï½ï½
ï½ï½
ï½ãï¼ãããããã«ãï½ï½ï½ï½ï½ãï¼ãã¾ããããï½ï½ï½ï½
ï½ |
| 00:35.00 | Shirik | wow that was annoying to type on a touchpad |
| 00:35.15 | Shirik | there needs to be some kind of keybind to switch between alphanumeric and hiragana mode |
| 00:35.24 | Jerub | you don't have one? |
| 00:35.46 | WobWork | can't you set the language input? |
| 00:36.33 | Shirik | I set the language input that's not a problem |
| 00:36.37 | Shirik | the switching between modes is |
| 00:37.46 | Shirik | such a cool song though |
| 00:37.59 | Shirik | but the whole half english, half japanese thing really messes with my typing |
| 00:39.44 | Shirik | Like the very first line is ãï¼¹ï½
ï½ï½ãï½ï½
ï½ï½ï¼ãï½ï½ï½ï½ï½ãï½ï½
ï½ï½ï½ï½
ï¼ããã£ã¨ããããï½ï½ããã¦ã£ã¨ããã |
| 00:42.30 | Shirik | and then he just says random crap like "shigidigi dan do dan dan do dan rhythm is gonna get you " |
| 00:42.36 | Shirik | None of that is japanese |
| 00:42.42 | Shirik | but it's such an awesome song |
| 00:46.16 | Jerub | japanese songs killed my family, and I'm sworn to avenge them |
| 00:48.00 | Shirik | :( |
| 00:48.04 | Shirik | anyway time to go |
| 00:48.06 | Shirik | landing soon |
| 00:48.07 | Shirik | bbl |
| 00:50.08 | Ackis | anyone have advice on a good hot/dot timer/tracker? |
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| 01:02.07 | WobWork | Ackis: sexycooldown? |
| 01:02.25 | Ackis | sounds exy |
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| 01:03.41 | Jerub | Ackis: for what class? |
| 01:03.58 | Ackis | priest |
| 01:04.00 | Ackis | holy/shadow |
| 01:04.01 | Jerub | I use badkitty for feral dps dot/cd timers. |
| 01:04.02 | Ackis | and dr00d |
| 01:04.34 | Jerub | i could /not/ do feral dps without badkitty. |
| 01:04.39 | Ackis | I don't trust that Antiarc guy though |
| 01:05.48 | WobWork | yeah, he's shifty looking |
| 01:06.07 | Jerub | there's FeralByNight too, which i've heard good things about but haven't used |
| 01:06.21 | Jerub | I've been meaning to look at SexyCooldowns. |
| 01:07.47 | Antiarc | Any programmers in here should look at FeralByNight's code |
| 01:07.51 | Antiarc | It will make you scream in terror. |
| 01:07.54 | Antiarc | It will give you nightmares. |
| 01:08.00 | NightHawkTheSane | one thing i dont like about sexycooldowns is that it doesn't handle several abilities with similar/same cds on the same bar |
| 01:08.12 | NightHawkTheSane | er, doesn't handle it well. |
| 01:08.27 | Jerub | Antiarc: is badkitty yours? |
| 01:08.31 | Antiarc | Nax |
| 01:08.33 | Antiarc | Nah |
| 01:08.44 | Antiarc | NightHawkTheSane: The pulsing should handle that for you |
| 01:10.02 | NightHawkTheSane | Antiarc: it kind of does, but i kind of get frustrated wehn i look at it and can't immediatly see the cd of an ability. i dont know a great way around it, and its probaly mostly me, so.. *shrug* :P |
| 01:10.18 | Antiarc | else if ((mangle_only==1) &&(en>=mangle.energy) && (cp<5) && ((((koj_timer<((mangle.energy+rake.energy-10-en)*10)&&((((rake_timer > ((mangle.energy+rake.energy-10-koj_m1-en)*10))||(rk==0))&& (cp<3) && (mdebuff_timer >= 0) && ((rake_timer>(0))||(rk==0)) )||((sr_timer<(100+lag))&&(en>(rake.energy+sr_energy-10)))||((rip_timer<(100+lag))&&(en>(rake.energy+sr_energy-10)))||(koj_timer<(100+lag))))||((((( rake_timer > ((mangle.energy+rake.ene |
| 01:10.28 | Antiarc | That's a randomly selected line from FeralByNight |
| 01:10.41 | Antiarc | It's 12,000 lines of that. |
| 01:10.45 | NightHawkTheSane | its freaking awesome on my ele shaman, though, for timing my lvb & fs |
| 01:10.46 | Jerub | Antiarc: that's fucking insane. |
| 01:11.19 | NightHawkTheSane | Antiarc: i think that line of code can be considered cruel and unusual punishment |
| 01:11.20 | Jerub | badkitty just shows me what abilites are off cd (or nearly off cd) |
| 01:11.49 | Jerub | Antiarc: does FBN tell you precisely which button to hit when? or does it do something similar to BK? |
| 01:11.49 | Antiarc | http://feralbynight.googlecode.com/files/FeralbyNightv3_2_b_beta.cpp |
| 01:11.50 | Antiarc | Enjoy |
| 01:12.03 | Antiarc | Jerub: FBN is a sim tool, not an addon |
| 01:12.34 | Antiarc | Oh, it's also one big function. |
| 01:12.44 | Antiarc | It's one 11,000 line function. |
| 01:13.11 | Jerub | fbextra_damage=(1+sr*src)*((1-red)*(fb.hit*((ap*0.002439)+(9.4))+fb.crit*(((ap*0.002439)+(9.4)))*2*(1+pistinct_m)*(1+META*0.03))*(1+naturalist_m)*(1+ferocity_m)); |
| 01:13.15 | Jerub | I like that |
| 01:13.31 | Antiarc | The sheer number of magic numbers used makes me recoil in horror |
| 01:13.56 | Antiarc | There's one if statement where he has a comment inline in it |
| 01:13.58 | Antiarc | I wish I could find it |
| 01:14.15 | Jerub | wow.curse.com is fail in google chrome. hitting 'enter' in the search box results in a page reload |
| 01:14.18 | Antiarc | else if((sr==1)&&(en>=fb.energy)&&((cp>=fb_t)/*||((time_to_die_boss<=kill_mode)&&(cp>=(fb_t-1)))*/)&&(bdebuff==1)&&((berserk==0)||((berserk==1)&&(en<fb.energy+5)))&& //base condition |
| 01:14.19 | Antiarc | There it is. |
| 01:14.29 | Antiarc | He has a friggin' comment in the middle of his elseif. |
| 01:14.29 | WobWork | ...that's not a comment =( |
| 01:14.39 | WobWork | That's a debug >< |
| 01:14.56 | Jerub | it's full of this: ////cout << "Time: " << timer/100.0 << ", Energy: " << en <<"\n"; |
| 01:14.57 | WobWork | oh base condition |
| 01:15.02 | Antiarc | No no |
| 01:15.05 | Antiarc | He has a comment at the end |
| 01:15.10 | Antiarc | And a bit commented out in the middle. |
| 01:15.25 | WobWork | well it's a good thing that noone else is maintaining that nightmare |
| 01:15.34 | Antiarc | Nobody else COULD |
| 01:15.36 | Antiarc | http://pastie.org/680921 |
| 01:15.39 | Antiarc | That's the full statement. |
| 01:15.41 | Antiarc | Just the elseif. |
| 01:15.50 | WobWork | oh yeah |
| 01:15.52 | Ackis | Antiarc: I installed sexymap and I got laid. |
| 01:15.55 | WobWork | I'd be going "Ferocious Bite?" too |
| 01:15.58 | Antiarc | Ackis: Excellent. |
| 01:16.04 | Ackis | Antiarc: I installed sexycooldwons and I got an STD |
| 01:16.15 | Antiarc | Ackis: Perhaps you shouldn't have used it on your DK first. |
| 01:16.17 | WobWork | Too much sexy =( |
| 01:16.18 | Antiarc | Pestilence and all. |
| 01:16.54 | Antiarc | Anyone else grooving on Torchlight? |
| 01:16.57 | Ackis | Antiarc: before I delve into the config options, will this track my hot/dot timers? |
| 01:17.01 | Antiarc | Ackis: Yes |
| 01:17.02 | Ackis | my gf lovesi t |
| 01:17.09 | Antiarc | Ackis: Check the "event types" menu |
| 01:17.18 | Antiarc | That lets you decide what classes of timers go on any individual bar |
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| 01:17.41 | WobWork | Antiarc: If I were writing that, I'd have a whole utter heap of atomic functions, screw the function call overhead |
| 01:17.44 | Jerub | when healing i really want to track my swiftmend CD |
| 01:17.46 | Antiarc | I use two bars on my priest, one for my cooldowns, one for my target's buffs/debuffs caused by me |
| 01:17.46 | Ackis | oh sexy |
| 01:17.47 | Dagmar | Antiarc: Torchlight? You mean like the Fate thing? |
| 01:17.48 | NightHawkTheSane | is waiting for a mac version of torchlight >< |
| 01:18.01 | Antiarc | Dagmar: Yeah. It's more Diablo than Fate, but yeah. |
| 01:18.05 | WobWork | torchlight is fun |
| 01:18.12 | Antiarc | For $20 it's a hell of a buy |
| 01:18.12 | Dagmar | I'm still undecided about it |
| 01:18.17 | Dagmar | Fate kinda tried my patience |
| 01:19.01 | WobWork | $20 is well worth it |
| 01:19.12 | WobWork | Antiarc: did you figure out the item duping bug yet? =P |
| 01:21.14 | Corrodias | i believe Torchlight has a demo. |
| 01:21.19 | Corrodias | that is all |
| 01:21.32 | Dagmar | Yeah I just told Steam to download the demo |
| 01:23.02 | Thunder_Child | torchlight = win |
| 01:23.06 | Thunder_Child | but short |
| 01:23.08 | Thunder_Child | :( |
| 01:23.53 | Antiarc | WobWork: I havent' bothered trying to item dupe, really |
| 01:24.01 | Antiarc | If I cared I could just crack open a savegame, I'm sure |
| 01:24.32 | Antiarc | Torchlight is done with Ogre3d, which I contributed to for a few years, so I know the engine and its resource structure pretty well, which gives me a leg up in hacking on it |
| 01:26.32 | sylvanaar | the steam client beta - my mousewheel works, wow |
| 01:26.41 | Antiarc | huh? |
| 01:28.08 | sylvanaar | my mousewheeel never worked in the steam client |
| 01:28.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Cloudwolf (n=chatzill@c-71-227-249-44.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 01:28.16 | Antiarc | Huh, odd |
| 01:28.23 | Cloudwolf | http://www.reuters.com/article/companyNewsAndPR/idUSN0245010720091102 |
| 01:28.27 | Cloudwolf | i feel sorry for legitimate wow players in china |
| 01:28.29 | Antiarc | Never had a problem with it myself. Do you have custom vendor drivers for your mouse installed? |
| 01:28.39 | sylvanaar | its a logitech |
| 01:28.44 | sylvanaar | so, i guess yes |
| 01:28.45 | Cloudwolf | however yay less gold sellers from china... |
| 01:29.14 | Kraps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV7Ha3VDbzE |
| 01:29.33 | Antiarc | The logitech drivers sometimes get a little funky in edge cases |
| 01:29.42 | Ackis | damn you Antiarc now I have to redo my UI |
| 01:29.46 | Antiarc | I've just stopped installing them, personally |
| 01:29.48 | Antiarc | Ackis: Haha, why |
| 01:30.06 | Ackis | make room for sexy bars of coolness |
| 01:32.30 | Antiarc | They replaced my "stacks o' bars" timers |
| 01:32.37 | Antiarc | So it really just sort of slimmed down the whole thing |
| 01:32.42 | Antiarc | I still need to write a Capping module |
| 01:32.45 | Antiarc | Oooooohhhh. |
| 01:32.49 | Antiarc | I just had a BRILLIANT idea. |
| 01:33.00 | Antiarc | I could write LibBars/CandyBar hook modules |
| 01:33.19 | Antiarc | Which would effectively hook any addons using those libs, and offer to reroute their timers back to a SexyCooldown bar instead. |
| 01:33.40 | Antiarc | So basically, any addon using a bar timer mod could be slipstreamed into Sexycooldown instead |
| 01:34.50 | Jerub | hm. tempting to convert my 80 odd EoC into runed orbs and AH them |
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| 01:42.27 | Ackis | Antiarc: only thing I see missing right now w/ sexy cooldowns would be to show me renews on multiple targets |
| 01:43.11 | Antiarc | Ackis: Yeah, I don't have tracking for targets that aren't self/target/focus right now |
| 01:43.18 | Antiarc | You could write a custom module to do that pretty easily though |
| 01:43.35 | Antiarc | SexyCooldown is a) a display, and b) controllers that put cooldowns onto the display |
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| 01:45.19 | Antiarc | SexyCooldown:AddItem(uniqueID, visibleName, icon, startTime, duration, stackSize, uniqueFilterString, tooltipCallback[, callbackArg1, ..., callbackArgN]) |
| 01:45.44 | Antiarc | uniqueFilterString is a filter type registered through SexyCooldown.RegisterFilter, and that shows up in the Event Types menu |
| 01:46.05 | Bruners | where do you place sexycooldowns? |
| 01:46.12 | Antiarc | what do you mean? |
| 01:46.36 | Bruners | in the UI, where you place it |
| 01:47.23 | Bruners | i don't use ut, but thinking of trying it, but i don't really have a good spot to place it |
| 01:47.24 | Antiarc | I put mine X-centered, about 20% below Y-center |
| 01:47.25 | Jerub | twitter says: Warcraft: Currently we are looking into making all meeting stones able to be used by anyone of level 15 or higher. #WoW Warcraft |
| 01:47.30 | Antiarc | Lemme get a screenshot |
| 01:50.05 | Bruners | anyone know if kollektiv has gone casual ? |
| 01:50.40 | kd3 | jerub: ! |
| 01:50.58 | Antiarc | Bruners: http://i36.tinypic.com/e8tro4.jpg |
| 01:51.02 | Antiarc | Not a great shot, but you get the idea |
| 01:51.17 | Antiarc | I have my buffs above my unit frame, my debuffs above the target, my cooldowns under my action bar |
| 01:53.50 | Ackis | w00t 2500 dps! |
| 01:55.19 | Jerub | Ackis: got to level 75 finally? |
| 01:55.32 | Jerub | ;) |
| 01:56.09 | Jerub | wow, just saw the QQ thread on the blizz forums bout auto-de |
| 01:56.27 | Bruners | why is there a QQ thread about that? |
| 01:56.30 | ScytheBlade1 | give us auto roll on mining and herbs and sure |
| 01:56.34 | Bruners | and give me a link |
| 01:56.36 | ScytheBlade1 | and I say that as a miner AND an herbalist |
| 01:56.39 | ScytheBlade1 | and an enchanter |
| 01:56.56 | Jerub | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=20677331778&sid=1 |
| 01:57.01 | Ackis | Jerub: I'm a holy priest trying to gear out to attempt shadow deeps |
| 01:57.47 | pompy | ~lart Ackis |
| 01:57.47 | purl | dumps 42 tons of dirt, manure, and fish heads on Ackis |
| 01:58.00 | Ackis | ~kick pompy |
| 01:58.00 | purl | ACTION kicks pompy |
| 01:59.45 | Bruners | i dont get this, getting to roll on a item to disenchant it doesnt really change anything other than you dont have to get the enchanter to disenchant each item |
| 02:00.52 | kd3 | yup. that's it |
| 02:00.58 | kd3 | and only if you have a chanter in the party with the skill to de it |
| 02:01.04 | kd3 | so the qq is overblown, as always |
| 02:01.22 | NightHawkTheSane | it means that greedy sods can't ninja stuff to de later :P |
| 02:01.26 | Jerub | man, this guy is a dickhead |
| 02:01.38 | NightHawkTheSane | well, not as easily at least |
| 02:01.40 | Bruners | NightHawkTheSane: they still can |
| 02:01.47 | Jerub | 'Namus' on this page: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=20677331778&sid=1&pageNo=45 |
| 02:02.07 | Bruners | ScytheBlade1: roll on herbs/mining? |
| 02:02.07 | Jerub | he's basically saying that he won't DE for a pug, and will quit the group if you ask him do |
| 02:02.44 | ScytheBlade1 | Bruners: if the group works for greens and they split that loot, etc etc etc |
| 02:03.08 | ScytheBlade1 | It's a somewhat unpopular opinion, but when I run with friends all DE mats go to me and I take care of them accordingly |
| 02:03.12 | ScytheBlade1 | That doesn't happen with randoms |
| 02:04.07 | Bruners | that is what the roll for disenchant fixes |
| 02:04.08 | Jerub | the way i'm handling it until 3.3 is saying, "roll greed on everything" then asking if there's a DE at the end. |
| 02:04.31 | ScytheBlade1 | No it doesn't, as herbs and mining nodes aren't rolled on |
| 02:04.45 | ScytheBlade1 | You work for the gear, you're also working for the herbs and the minerals |
| 02:05.03 | Bruners | so do a /roll between the miners/herbers as usual ? |
| 02:05.12 | ScytheBlade1 | Why just the miners/herbers? |
| 02:05.15 | Jerub | I have piles and piles and piles of leather from running heroics, I've never ever had anyone ask me for any of it. |
| 02:05.56 | Bruners | ScytheBlade1: so you are saying that everyone should share everything in the instance? |
| 02:06.03 | Bruners | ScytheBlade1: even the extra cloth that tailors get? |
| 02:06.05 | ScytheBlade1 | In short, yes |
| 02:06.05 | ScytheBlade1 | Sure |
| 02:06.09 | ScytheBlade1 | I have a tailor as well |
| 02:06.17 | ScytheBlade1 | Quit singling out ench mats |
| 02:06.31 | ScytheBlade1 | (I have a tailor, enchanter, herbalist, alchemist, miner, and a JC) |
| 02:06.37 | Bruners | you can, if you want, also greed to get the item if you want it |
| 02:07.02 | Bruners | which i will be doing |
| 02:08.29 | Jerub | the real reaosn this feature is in is because of the trade restrictions in the new cross-realm-pugs |
| 02:08.33 | Jerub | no other reason. |
| 02:09.40 | ScytheBlade1 | Pricks need to quick picking on enchanters. =[ |
| 02:09.54 | Jerub | everyone loves enchanters. |
| 02:09.58 | ScytheBlade1 | I have a hard enough time just providing mats as-is |
| 02:10.05 | ScytheBlade1 | s/enchanters/just enchanters/ |
| 02:10.43 | Jerub | I would actualyl find getting random herbs or ore really annoying. |
| 02:10.51 | Jerub | it would all end up on the AH after every heroic. |
| 02:10.57 | ScytheBlade1 | No reason you couldn't pass |
| 02:11.05 | ScytheBlade1 | Also, frost lotus and high end ore |
| 02:11.12 | ScytheBlade1 | I doubt you'd find that too annoying |
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| 02:14.00 | Jerub | meh |
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| 02:16.14 | kd3 | whee; the railgun OP single is out |
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| 02:29.10 | cog|away | anyone want a HoN beta invite? http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/ |
| 02:29.48 | Jamies__ | Hey guys, just one quick and stupid question that I've been trying to find the answer to for about an hour. using SetScript to set a function OnUpdate, but keep receiving a usage error (("type", function)). The function in SetScript is function(frame, anArg1) with the function itself having the signature (frame, anArg1). Where am I going wrong? |
| 02:30.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Sesshu| (n=Sesshu@ip-231-17.travedsl.de) |
| 02:31.43 | Jamies__ | I can only assume that any function used with SetScript doesn't allow you to use your own arguments past those that are provided. Is this correct? |
| 02:32.24 | cogwheel | Jamies__: without seeing the actual code it's kinda hard to find bugs ;) check out http://pastey.net |
| 02:32.24 | ScytheBlade1 | Can you pastey the code in question? |
| 02:32.37 | ScytheBlade1 | cogwheel: great minds, etc etc etc |
| 02:32.53 | cogwheel | wonders what the server timestamps looked like for that :P |
| 02:32.55 | Jamies__ | Fair enough, I'll paste the offendors. One tick! |
| 02:34.35 | alestane | Jamies__: If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say you're calling frame:SetScript(OnUpdate, func) instead of frame:SetScript("OnUpdate", func). |
| 02:35.07 | Jamies__ | That's not the case, unfortunately, alestane. Here's the code: http://pastey.net/127485 |
| 02:35.11 | ScytheBlade1 | I bet you he's calling a function and passing that result in |
| 02:35.20 | Jamies__ | With failed @@! So much for use that to highlight the line :(. |
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| 02:35.37 | Jamies__ | Ah, 3x. |
| 02:35.38 | alestane | No, ScytheBlade1 has the right of it. |
| 02:35.53 | alestane | button:SetScript("OnUpdate", OnUpdateOpaque) |
| 02:36.04 | Jamies__ | So I can't pass another argument? |
| 02:36.11 | ScytheBlade1 | No, you pass in a *function* |
| 02:36.18 | ScytheBlade1 | Not the *result of a function* |
| 02:36.24 | ScytheBlade1 | Subtle, but the difference is the () |
| 02:36.48 | cogwheel | Jamies__: think of local function OnUpdateOpaque(frame, n) --[[code]] end as local OnUpdateOpaque = function(frame, n) --[[code]] end |
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| 02:37.12 | cogwheel | OnUpdateOpaque is just a variable that holds a function, and it's that function you're passing into the SetScript |
| 02:37.36 | Jamies__ | Ahh, I may get it, then. So would this work: button:SetScript("OnUpdate, function() OnUpdateOpaque(frame, n) end) ? |
| 02:37.44 | Jamies__ | With a missing " |
| 02:38.06 | cogwheel | almost... you also need to pass frame and n into the surrounding function() |
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| 02:38.25 | ScytheBlade1 | But you have the right idea, yeah. |
| 02:38.25 | Jamies__ | I'll give that a shot, then! Many thanks. |
| 02:38.38 | ScytheBlade1 | It's subtle for beginning users |
| 02:38.47 | alestane | button:SetScript("OnUpdate", OnUpdateOpaque) should be perfectly adequate, no need ot make a wrapper funciton. |
| 02:38.49 | ScytheBlade1 | I hit my head on that many times before getting it down right |
| 02:38.49 | cogwheel | and just for the record that would add an extra layer of unnecessary indirection ;) |
| 02:39.24 | Jamies__ | Oh? I think I've lost you now. |
| 02:39.30 | alestane | Except that n isn't an elapsed argument. |
| 02:40.05 | cogwheel | whenever you have "function() --[[code]] end" you're creating a new function. So you're basically creating a short function that does nothing but call another function |
| 02:40.13 | alestane | What you pass to SetScript as a second argument should be an expression whose value is a function (or "closure"). |
| 02:40.43 | alestane | The local variable OnUpdateOpaque has the value of a function that takes a frame and a second argument. |
| 02:41.11 | alestane | So you can supply it directly. We refer to this in Lua by saying that functions are "first-class values." |
| 02:41.39 | Antiarc | Functions in lua are first-class values. Use 'em as such :D |
| 02:41.43 | alestane | That is, a function can be created, returned from another function, passed as an argument, etc. |
| 02:42.01 | Antiarc | oh hey, alestane just said that. :V |
| 02:42.03 | Antiarc | durr. |
| 02:42.24 | Jamies__ | If I'm taking some time to reply, it's because I'm boggling. Let me try to get that to sink in whilst I blame my local timestamp. :-) |
| 02:42.56 | alestane | Functions in Lua are, like other values, fundamentally anonymous; they exist independent of their names, which are only local or global values that have the function assigned to them as their value. |
| 02:43.00 | Antiarc | Just think of functions as values that you can pass around, and it gets a lot easier. |
| 02:43.13 | alestane | local or global variables* |
| 02:43.35 | alestane | You can basically treat them as objects. |
| 02:43.43 | Antiarc | Well, variables. |
| 02:43.49 | cogwheel | may be late to the party but... http://pastey.net/127487 |
| 02:43.53 | Jamies__ | Alright, and how exactly did that translate to this code again? I mean, perhaps I'd do better if I understood the application of this. |
| 02:44.15 | Jamies__ | Aha, thanks. |
| 02:44.25 | Legorol | Jamies__: i think it's best understood via an analogy |
| 02:44.28 | Legorol | consider this case: |
| 02:44.35 | Antiarc | lua> print(typeof(function() end)) |
| 02:44.36 | lua_bot | Antiarc: luabot:1: attempt to call global 'typeof' (a nil value) |
| 02:44.42 | Antiarc | lua> print(type(function() end)) |
| 02:44.42 | lua_bot | Antiarc: function |
| 02:44.49 | Legorol | exampe 1) local x = 3; SomeFunctionThatWantsAnInteger(x); |
| 02:44.51 | Antiarc | Guess who did too much Javascript today. :P |
| 02:44.56 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 02:44.59 | ScytheBlade1 | Sucker |
| 02:45.04 | cogwheel | Antiarc: my first guess was C# :P |
| 02:45.09 | Legorol | that example is passing the value of x (that is 3) to SomeFunctionThatWantsAnInteger |
| 02:45.13 | alestane | Your case is made a little more complicated by the fact that the second argument you want to call OnUpdateOpaque with is NOT the argument that the WoW API will supply. |
| 02:45.35 | Legorol | example 2) local f = function() .. do some funky stuff end; SomeFunctionThatWantsAFunction(f); |
| 02:46.01 | Legorol | this second example is analogous to the first, but instead of a number, you are passing a function |
| 02:46.16 | Legorol | the function is still "stored" (or more technically correctly, referenced) by a variable named "f" |
| 02:46.17 | cogwheel | analogies are like vegetables |
| 02:46.39 | Legorol | they are? |
| 02:46.39 | Jamies__ | On that note, my brain is turning into a vegetable. |
| 02:46.41 | cogwheel | isn't going anywhere with that, btw <.< >.> |
| 02:47.00 | cogwheel | Legorol: just being random |
| 02:47.09 | alestane | I was wondering if you were going to elucidate that analogy or if it was also like a vegetable. |
| 02:47.51 | Legorol | if it's a vegetable, can i eat 5 a day? |
| 02:47.53 | cogwheel | hmm... well, sometimes they taste really bad |
| 02:47.59 | ScytheBlade1 | Jamies__: did you make sense of what cogwheel pasted? http://pastey.net/127487 |
| 02:48.02 | Legorol | 5 analogies a day, keep the bugs away |
| 02:48.15 | cogwheel | but they have a purpose |
| 02:48.38 | Jamies__ | Yes, I think I understand it and I do appreciate all the explanations :-). On the other hand, I'm still not sure if/why/how/what I can pass a second argument that isn't provided. I think. *boggle* |
| 02:48.48 | Jamies__ | A second argument to the function itself, that is. |
| 02:48.49 | Legorol | on a sidenote: how can someone fail to understand the difference in function calls and function references given the Lua manual </troll> |
| 02:49.08 | cogwheel | ~tickle Legorol |
| 02:49.09 | purl | ACTION jumps on Legorol, yelling "TICKLE FIGHT!!!!" |
| 02:49.13 | ScytheBlade1 | You cannot pass anything other than a *function* to the second argument of SetScript() |
| 02:49.21 | Antiarc | Legorol: If you come from a language without first-class functions, it can be a little hard to wrap your head around |
| 02:49.31 | Jerub | Legorol: because in ruby you can't have function references so the concept makes them go slightly insane. |
| 02:49.34 | Antiarc | I mean, take your average PHP developer and try to explain first class functions and his head would explode. |
| 02:49.34 | Legorol | ScytheBlade1: i think Jamies__ means he wants to pass additional arguments to his OnUpdateOpaque |
| 02:49.39 | Dagmar | Legorol: REEDIN IS HARD! |
| 02:49.44 | ScytheBlade1 | Legorol: I know, just reiteraing |
| 02:49.47 | Legorol | in other words, he wants to use a different calling profile than what the Blizz API will do to it |
| 02:49.49 | Jamies__ | I don't really come from any language, to be honest -- never learnt enough of any to get to doing anything. |
| 02:49.56 | Antiarc | Jerub: Ruby sidesteps that with blocks, though :P |
| 02:49.59 | alestane | Jamies__: Here's one more way to think of it...the expression '{"a", "b", 3, g, time=5}' makes a new table with some keys assigned, and the type of that expression value is 'table'. the expression 'function(a, b, ...) return a * b + select('3', ...) end' makes a new function that performs some operations on its arguments, and the type of that expression value is 'function'. |
| 02:50.15 | Legorol | Jamies__: please don't take our jibes personally :) we like to make fun without ill intent |
| 02:50.25 | alestane | Jamies__: What you are looking for is a slightly more confusing concept called an 'upvalue.' |
| 02:50.50 | Legorol | upvalues /shiver |
| 02:50.57 | Antiarc | What's wrong with upvalues? |
| 02:50.59 | Legorol | i /shiver not because i don't like them, but because they are hard to explain :) |
| 02:51.13 | Legorol | upvalues rock, but are one of the hardest concepts to beginner Lua coders imo |
| 02:51.20 | Legorol | until you hit metatables ;) |
| 02:51.36 | Jamies__ | Uhoh. Perhaps I'd do good to just look for upvalue in the manual. |
| 02:51.45 | ScytheBlade1 | It may help |
| 02:51.49 | Legorol | the manual is exact, but too concise |
| 02:51.52 | ScytheBlade1 | Feel free to ask here as well |
| 02:51.52 | alestane | Here is code that shows how to use it: http://pastey.net/127488 |
| 02:51.54 | Antiarc | upvalues are just the local variable stack. What's hard about that? |
| 02:51.54 | Legorol | it's a start, but come back and ask here for help |
| 02:52.00 | Antiarc | I guess if you get into how they interact with closures |
| 02:52.01 | Legorol | lol Antiarc |
| 02:52.11 | Legorol | and they are not quite |
| 02:52.21 | Legorol | upvalues exist outside the local variable stack too |
| 02:52.41 | Legorol | they have to, so that they don't cease to exist when you exit their scope |
| 02:52.45 | Jamies__ | Thanks for the code, alestane. I'd assumed something like that might work, so for the record, I think I got that much :-). |
| 02:52.59 | Antiarc | I was pretty sure that upvalues are limited -because- they're stored on the stack. Hrm. |
| 02:53.09 | Legorol | Did I mention yet that my ISP sucks? |
| 02:53.53 | Legorol | I called them up to report a line fault with my cable connection. Level 1 tech support guy wouldn't listen, and isisted on taking me through elementary troubleshooting... including asking me to swap the ethernet cable connecting my modem with my router with the cable connecting the router to the PC |
| 02:54.13 | Legorol | i was speechless |
| 02:54.37 | kd3 | uh, wow. |
| 02:54.43 | kd3 | "can you connect me to a level 2 tech, please?" |
| 02:54.49 | Legorol | i wonder what he'd have done if i said i don't have a PC connected to the router? |
| 02:54.59 | Legorol | he probably would've asked "so how are you using internet then" |
| 02:55.06 | Legorol | so i didn't go there |
| 02:55.08 | cogwheel | Legorol: i had the same experience with comcast a while back. the hardest part was that i had gotten through to someone who listened and understood the first time but we got disconnected |
| 02:55.09 | alestane | Jamies__: In that example, the variable 'n' is a local variable for the scope of the function assigned to the local variable Stealth (since it's declared in the arguments for for that function definition). The anonymous function created inside that scope refers to it, and since it's a local variable referred to in a closure created inside its own scope, its value is saved by that new function and looked up whenever that function is ru |
| 02:55.09 | alestane | your case, by the Widget API updating your frame). |
| 02:55.20 | Legorol | cogwheel: my sympathies |
| 02:55.28 | Legorol | kd3: unfortunately that tends to not work in the UK |
| 02:55.34 | Legorol | you have to jump the hoops before they let you further |
| 02:55.56 | Legorol | so i followed his instructinos, and pretended to swap the cables, and then i reported that the modem's lights still don't indicate a connection |
| 02:56.04 | Legorol | after i have done all he asked, he suggested to send out an engineer |
| 02:56.12 | Legorol | this was the point where i told him No, i'd like to speak to a supervisor |
| 02:56.14 | kd3 | wtf (/.): EU Wants To Redefine "Closed" As "Nearly Open" |
| 02:56.28 | Legorol | the maddening part: the supervisor took 1 minute to confirm that half of the city is without Internet at the moment |
| 02:56.37 | Legorol | and it's been ongoing all day |
| 02:56.51 | Legorol | Level 1 techie took 25 minutes to do basic troubleshooting. I guess he didn't read his daily bulletin. |
| 02:57.38 | Legorol | On the plus side: i did manage to convince the supervisor that the level 1 techie wasted an inordinate amount of my time (and mobile phone bill!) for no good reason, and credited my account accordingly. |
| 02:58.04 | Legorol | minor victory there |
| 02:58.19 | Antiarc | Nice |
| 02:58.31 | kd3 | so you won the battle. how goes the war? |
| 02:58.32 | Antiarc | I have to call and get cable net set up for my new place |
| 02:58.37 | Antiarc | I think I can get 20mbps down in my new area. |
| 02:58.40 | Jamies__ | Nope. I read that about 15 times and I still don't really get it. I shall refer to it again tomorrow, when I'm awake :). Thanks a lot in any case, alestane. |
| 02:58.45 | Legorol | kd3: well, i'm on IRC.. so service has been restored ;) |
| 02:58.46 | Jamies__ | Legorol: which ISP is it? |
| 02:58.56 | Legorol | it's latest name is "Virgin Media" |
| 02:59.04 | Legorol | before that, it was called Telewest |
| 02:59.04 | Jamies__ | Oh, dear. |
| 02:59.33 | alestane | Jamies__: I didn't explain it in the simplest terms possible. You may find it helpful to read: |
| 02:59.35 | alestane | ~pil |
| 02:59.36 | purl | Programming in Lua, a book written by the authors of the Lua programming language. The first edition is available free online at http://www.lua.org/pil and covers Lua 5.0. The second edition is available in print from most online bookstores, and covers Lua 5.1. |
| 02:59.42 | Legorol | seriously, when someone calls up with "my internet is not working", how the hell can you miss the fact that half of Edinburgh (and other major Scottish cities) are without Internet? |
| 03:00.06 | kd3 | when you work for an isp and assume all of your users are idiots? |
| 03:00.15 | Legorol | ok, that's a fair point |
| 03:00.17 | Jamies__ | Thanks :). I actually have a copy of the second edition and had a look at upvalues, but I'm just not getting anywhere tonight. I'm certainly interested in understanding them, so I'll definitely get back to it in the morning. |
| 03:00.18 | Legorol | i have to give them that |
| 03:00.20 | kd3 | s/ and assume all of your users are idiots// |
| 03:00.44 | Legorol | I guess the real problem is that they don't train the techies to recognise when the user is giving them useful information |
| 03:01.07 | kd3 | train techs? to do more than read a script? |
| 03:01.24 | kd3 | you're overestimating level 1's intelligence |
| 03:01.37 | ccox | lego - "they don't train the techies", and stop there. |
| 03:01.40 | Legorol | Having said that, several years ago when my ISP was NTL, I encountered a rare and bizarre issue. I was able to fight my way through to level 3 tech support, and ended up discussing RFCs about HTTP headers with a competent techie, and ended up emailing him a packet trace. |
| 03:01.45 | Legorol | That was satisfying. |
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| 03:02.25 | Jerub | Legorol: I have battled for 2 years to get austrlaia's second largest isp to not fuck up when delivering mail to servers that greylist. |
| 03:02.33 | Jerub | Legorol: I gave up. |
| 03:02.39 | Legorol | hehe |
| 03:03.01 | Legorol | The problem was that NTL was forcing all HTTP traffic from customers through transparent proxies, and unfortunately their proxy servers were not able to correctly handle HTTP requests for files larger than 4 Gb. |
| 03:03.33 | Legorol | Which screwed up my download of one of Vista's beta versions back then |
| 03:03.51 | ccox | ouch, 32 bit address/offset bug |
| 03:04.04 | Legorol | i narrowed the issue down to their servers screwing up the content-length field, by truncating to 32 bits. |
| 03:04.18 | Legorol | i just had to get that info accross to someone, and i managed! can you beleive it |
| 03:04.44 | Jamies__ | Whew, well I'll be off to bed. Goodnight and thank you once again, everyone :). |
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| 03:05.31 | Legorol | They never did fix the issue, but a few years later (well after I left them), they stopped using transparent proxies |
| 03:06.24 | Legorol | Transparent proxies were no fun. Among other things, they made me unable to log into the WoW forums. |
| 03:06.40 | Legorol | Took me a while to figure out why that was, and I was astounded when I realised it's my ISP's fault. |
| 03:06.54 | Jerub | in .au, tproxies are normal, and bittorrent proxies are also used. |
| 03:07.11 | Legorol | transparent http proxies are evil (and nowadays mostly pointless) |
| 03:07.29 | Legorol | My writeup about the incompatibility of transparent proxies with the WoW forums is still stickied on the EU forums :) |
| 03:07.29 | Jerub | not in .au |
| 03:07.38 | Legorol | 3 years after it got stickied, it still helps the occasional person |
| 03:08.15 | Legorol | Jerub: it is mostly pointless to proxy HTTP traffic nowadays because such a large portion of it is dynamically generated, that you mostly miss the cache |
| 03:08.39 | Legorol | static web pages are a thing of the past |
| 03:08.48 | Legorol | not to mention video streaming and other applications |
| 03:11.08 | Jerub | Legorol: you'd be surprised what's cachable. |
| 03:11.22 | Jerub | and we have serious problems in .au with international transit. |
| 03:11.29 | Jerub | as well as inter-isp transit. |
| 03:12.16 | Legorol | Jerub: if it causes me to be unable to log in to the WoW forums, I'm not sure I care :o) |
| 03:12.36 | Legorol | having said that, i wouldn't be losing out on much |
| 03:12.50 | NightHawkTheSane | http://www.bitbar.org/tetris/cake.html?fields=9 |
| 03:13.04 | cogwheel | anyone have a recommendation for an eSATA BD-R drive? |
| 03:15.46 | alestane | Random C question: I'm trying to compile Lua 5.1.4, but I'm getting an error from a function being defined with the same name as a macro. The only issue is, the file that defines the macro also #undefs it. Is it common that compilers ignore #undef directives? |
| 03:16.33 | Iriel | I dont /think/ so |
| 03:16.38 | Arrowmaster | Jerub: when that new US-Japan cable gets finished in a few weeks will that likely have any effect on aussie throughput? |
| 03:16.51 | Jerub | Arrowmaster: probably not. |
| 03:16.52 | WobWork | hehe |
| 03:16.59 | alestane | And my last version of XCode didn;t seem to have a problem with it. |
| 03:17.14 | WobWork | work has officially stopped for the day =P |
| 03:17.18 | WobWork | yay for the MC |
| 03:17.21 | Arrowmaster | heard it was supposed to increase capacity by 20% or so |
| 03:18.05 | kd3 | most of which will probably get sucked down in japan and korea, I expect |
| 03:18.35 | WobWork | damn those koreans =( |
| 03:18.54 | WobWork | and their completely internal gaming =P |
| 03:19.51 | ajmitch | WobWork: I thought people over your way got the whole day off today :) |
| 03:21.51 | alestane | Iriel: I got it to work with a somewhat hackish-feeling solution...I repeated the #undef right before the function definition. |
| 03:22.35 | Iriel | Hm, I'd wonder if there's not another source of the macro elsewhere, or if that #undef is conditional? |
| 03:24.21 | Arrowmaster | Jerub: yeah you guys seem to have a lack of cables http://telegeography.com/products/map_cable/downloads/CableMap09_1600x1200.jpg |
| 03:24.25 | Hirsute | Oh, my. I shouldn't have read the backscroll on the conversation about Jamies's code. I think my head just exploded. |
| 03:25.05 | alestane | the #undef say "#undef check"...is there some way I can find out what definition the compiler is seeing? |
| 03:26.33 | alestane | Ah, Xcode has a "Jump to Definition " command. |
| 03:26.47 | alestane | And it finds the macro defined in ldebug.c that's undefined. |
| 03:27.49 | NightHawkTheSane | hilarity: being called out by name in a pug toc25 for having "shitty gear", and then proceeding to be in the top 5-8 damage done regularly. |
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| 03:33.58 | Kraps | fail yankees fail |
| 03:34.59 | A-KO | http://www.snorgtees.com/images/Pheasant_Fullpic_1.gif < I need this shirt lol |
| 03:52.38 | WobWork | ajmitch: only in Melbourne =) |
| 03:52.46 | WobWork | the rest of us pretty much take a half day |
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| 04:06.48 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Kody-] by ChanServ |
| 04:13.20 | *** join/#wowuidev govtrust (n=govtrust@222-144.175-24.bham.res.rr.com) |
| 04:18.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Kowski (n=ykow@pv130242.reshsg.uci.edu) |
| 04:23.15 | Arrowmaster | somebody write me something to parse a text file input, fill in some missing blanks, and append to a CSV |
| 04:29.16 | Shirik | I'm back! |
| 04:29.19 | Shirik | Did you all miss me? :) |
| 04:29.30 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik: you left? |
| 04:29.53 | Shirik | Cairenn|afk, you are so mean |
| 04:30.08 | Cairenn|afk | Shirik: you sitting down? |
| 04:30.24 | Shirik | to be fair I have been sitting down all day |
| 04:30.38 | Cairenn|afk | good, don't want you to fall over in shock and get hurt |
| 04:30.41 | Shirik | granted, for half of the day, that seat was moving at about 400 mph |
| 04:30.56 | Cairenn|afk | I'm going to do something sensible for a change, listen to my body, and go to bed |
| 04:30.58 | Cairenn|afk | night night |
| 04:31.00 | Shirik | !! |
| 04:31.07 | Shirik | who are you and what have you done with Cairenn|afk |
| 04:31.14 | NightHawkTheSane | random question, i've got a logitech mouse with one of those togglable "free spinning" wheels. anyone have a clue why WoW totally chokes on the scroll inputs when i use it to scroll fast? |
| 04:31.18 | Cairenn|afk | huggles Shirik |
| 04:31.23 | Shirik | NightHawkTheSane: It doesn't for me |
| 04:31.27 | Cairenn|afk | glad you are back safe and sound :) |
| 04:31.30 | Shirik | and btw, I love it |
| 04:32.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Kowski (n=ykow@pv130242.reshsg.uci.edu) |
| 04:32.36 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik: for me it does this wierd thing where it'll scroll both up and down. |
| 04:32.36 | Shirik | wierd |
| 04:32.47 | Shirik | perhaps your computer is too slow for the drivers to operate? Or perhaps you're scrolling too fast for the mouse lol |
| 04:33.01 | Shirik | I wonder what implementation they used for the wheel |
| 04:33.20 | NightHawkTheSane | only wow has that issue, every other app handles it fine. |
| 04:33.23 | NightHawkTheSane | so *shrug* |
| 04:33.39 | Shirik | maybe wow just pulls your computer down? |
| 04:33.42 | Shirik | it is quite demanding |
| 04:34.08 | NightHawkTheSane | nah, i've got a decent system, wow doesn't tax it terribly |
| 04:34.28 | NightHawkTheSane | (quad core 3ghz mac pro, 7gb ram) |
| 04:35.55 | *** join/#wowuidev simonw (n=simonw@207.46.92.19) |
| 04:36.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah1 (n=Ryan@c-76-107-191-65.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 04:36.42 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah1] by ChanServ |
| 04:37.06 | Shirik | oh it's a mac |
| 04:37.08 | NightHawkTheSane | oh, i think i fixed it.. |
| 04:37.10 | Shirik | that's probably why |
| 04:37.15 | Shirik | nope, it's a mac, it's unfixable |
| 04:37.47 | NightHawkTheSane | the mouse drivers i was using had scrolling set to "accelerated", whatever that means. changing it to "1 line" for wow resolved it. |
| 04:38.22 | Shirik | I think that means a multiplier on wheel clicks |
| 04:38.36 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah, i imagine so |
| 04:38.37 | Shirik | despite the fact that your wheel doesn't "click," as far as software is concerned it does operate as such |
| 04:39.26 | Shirik | Seerah, I am going to have to ask you to stop spamming the channel with joins, quits, and nick changes |
| 04:39.32 | Shirik | it violates freenode policy and can lead to a ban |
| 04:39.42 | Seerah | Shirik: then come fix my new computer :p |
| 04:39.45 | Shirik | :P |
| 04:39.49 | Shirik | yay new computer |
| 04:40.13 | Seerah | it powers off all by itself! |
| 04:40.21 | *** join/#wowuidev soufron (n=soufron@77.108.149.14) |
| 04:40.23 | Seerah | magic! wooooooo! |
| 04:40.35 | Shirik | oh very nice feature |
| 04:40.49 | Shirik | very economy friendly |
| 04:41.16 | Seerah | I woke it from its slumber, it was on for a whole 3 seconds, and ... I guess it was in the middle of a dream or something |
| 04:41.54 | Shirik | did it get cranky? |
| 04:42.02 | Shirik | I don't like waking up either |
| 04:42.12 | Seerah | it rolled over and covered its head with the blankets. Shut down. |
| 04:42.32 | *** join/#wowuidev robotusch (n=robotusc@50A2DA6F.flatrate.dk) |
| 04:42.40 | Shirik | shouldn't bother it then |
| 04:42.49 | Seerah | sighs |
| 04:43.42 | Shirik | Windows 7? |
| 04:43.57 | Seerah | yeah |
| 04:44.00 | Shirik | ATI? |
| 04:44.26 | Seerah | ati for which? |
| 04:44.33 | Shirik | grpahics card |
| 04:45.02 | Seerah | right - usually think AMD, adn I'm getting a little tired :p I have the latest driver for win7 |
| 04:45.13 | Seerah | at least as of about 3 days ago, I did |
| 04:45.14 | Shirik | you.... didn't answer my question |
| 04:45.31 | Seerah | what was your question? :p |
| 04:45.38 | Shirik | are you using an ATI graphics card? |
| 04:46.05 | Shirik | oh is that what the "right" was? |
| 04:46.12 | Seerah | sorry. told you I was tired :p |
| 04:46.21 | Seerah | yes. Radeon 4850 HD |
| 04:46.26 | Shirik | Interesting |
| 04:46.51 | Shirik | That's almost identical to my laptop's configuration, and my laptop cannot recover from sleep. The graphics driver crashes. |
| 04:46.58 | Shirik | Also running latest drivers |
| 04:47.14 | Seerah | this does it when powering on for the first time in the morning, too. |
| 04:47.21 | Shirik | ew |
| 04:47.29 | Seerah | was doing it before updating drivers. that was the first thing I tried. |
| 04:47.34 | Shirik | probably you need to give it some more sleep time then yes |
| 04:47.37 | Shirik | not very happy in the morning |
| 04:47.47 | Seerah | This isn't it actually going back to sleep though. It actually shuts down. |
| 04:47.52 | Shirik | Well it's been doing this to me for about 4 months |
| 04:47.59 | Shirik | and I've been constantly updating the drivers |
| 04:48.04 | Shirik | ATI doesn't have their act together I think :P |
| 04:48.10 | Shirik | Wait, it shuts down? It's not a BSOD? |
| 04:48.20 | Seerah | The RC was fine on this new machine. Started with the release version. |
| 04:48.37 | Seerah | I've gotten a blue screen only twice when trying to power it back on. |
| 04:48.39 | Shirik | You haven't changed any hardware between the two? |
| 04:48.51 | Seerah | between RC and release? nope. |
| 04:49.09 | Shirik | The system shouldn't shut itself down, ever. Only hardware should be able to trip that. |
| 04:49.18 | Jerub | I can't follow this conversation because both of you have the same shape names, and both have ops. |
| 04:49.20 | Shirik | I mean the OS /can/ but intentionally doesn't |
| 04:49.25 | Seerah | Had the RC on this machine for 2 days, realized I was going to have reinstall programs when upgrading from that to the release, so went and bought release copy. |
| 04:49.33 | Shirik | Jerub: Get colored names |
| 04:50.03 | Seerah | on my screen, Shirik's brown and I'm blue ;) |
| 04:50.19 | Jerub | wait, you're both Shirik |
| 04:50.22 | Jerub | ;) |
| 04:50.28 | Seerah | ~lart Jerub |
| 04:50.28 | purl | whips out a shotgun, trudges over to Jerub, and goes postal |
| 04:50.28 | Shirik | On my screen, Seerah is grey and sometimes yellow and sometimes dark gray,and I am white |
| 04:50.38 | Shirik | Seerah wishes she was me |
| 04:50.43 | Seerah | psh! |
| 04:51.48 | Shirik | something very strange is going on for sure |
| 04:52.04 | Seerah | Shirik: this is the computer we were having TONS of issues with when we were building, though... Went through 3 motherboards and different RAM all getting it to boot up |
| 04:52.07 | Shirik | If I were there I would attach my meter to your PSU to see if it's latching off or so |
| 04:52.13 | Shirik | what's the peak output on your PSU? |
| 04:52.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Sesshu| (n=Sesshu@ip-60-16.travedsl.de) |
| 04:52.21 | Seerah | yeah, we don't have a meter. |
| 04:52.26 | Shirik | Wierd thing is, none of this should matter if it worked before |
| 04:52.49 | Seerah | hrmm.... not sure |
| 04:54.01 | Seerah | Shirik: this is my processor: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103675 |
| 04:54.20 | Shirik | eww |
| 04:54.24 | Shirik | stop having better stuff than me :( |
| 04:54.43 | Seerah | this is the board: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135236 and this is the PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171036 |
| 04:54.48 | *** join/#wowuidev sylbot (n=sylbot@cpe-098-122-156-080.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 04:54.54 | Seerah | I needed a new computer! :D |
| 04:55.03 | Shirik | I do too |
| 04:55.05 | Shirik | I just can't afford it |
| 04:55.09 | Seerah | :) |
| 04:55.19 | Shirik | something about being a student and all |
| 04:55.27 | Shirik | How much RAM do you have? |
| 04:55.31 | Shirik | and how many sticks? |
| 04:55.37 | Seerah | I am fully aware :) I still owe 24k dollars ;) |
| 04:55.43 | Seerah | 6GB on 4 sticks |
| 04:55.45 | Seerah | Crucial |
| 04:55.50 | Shirik | wtf |
| 04:55.54 | Shirik | you suck |
| 04:55.54 | sylvanaar | 4! |
| 04:56.05 | sylvanaar | 3 |
| 04:56.12 | Shirik | are you overclocking at all? |
| 04:57.00 | Seerah | first we just got 2x2GB, but the MoBo was beeping mem errors. So we bought 2x1GB to test. those didn't work. so we went through a second and third MoBo. Finally traded in the 2x2GB for new ones, and it booted up |
| 04:57.04 | Seerah | nope |
| 04:57.28 | Seerah | it's set to shut down if the core gets to 70C, but it's not that hot when shutting down. |
| 04:57.45 | Shirik | I'm actually thinking more about voltages |
| 04:57.48 | Shirik | trying to do some rough math |
| 04:58.33 | sylvanaar | !snarf http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103675 |
| 04:58.36 | sylbot | www.newegg.com: Newegg.com - AMD Phenom II X4 945 Deneb 3.0GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor - Processors - Desktops |
| 04:58.36 | Shirik | dear god AMD's datasheets suck |
| 05:00.05 | Shirik | omg |
| 05:00.07 | Shirik | seriously? |
| 05:00.16 | Shirik | I just did all that math and the power is right there in the title of the page? |
| 05:00.28 | sylvanaar | lol |
| 05:00.32 | Seerah | I didn't know if that was what you meant :p |
| 05:00.52 | Seerah | but was why I linked you the page in case it had the info ;) |
| 05:00.53 | Shirik | What's your graphics card again? |
| 05:00.59 | Seerah | Radeon 4850 HD |
| 05:01.28 | Shirik | By any particular company? |
| 05:01.32 | Shirik | Or direct? |
| 05:01.40 | Seerah | umm..... sec |
| 05:04.13 | Seerah | Wayne can't remember but thinks it was direct. I don't see any other brand name on the properties window, though |
| 05:04.25 | Shirik | lua> 3.3*0.01*240*4 |
| 05:04.26 | lua_bot | Shirik: 31.68 |
| 05:04.38 | Shirik | it probably wouldn'tbe on the properties window, but ok |
| 05:04.51 | Shirik | At first I thought 600W migth be too low, but after doing the math I can't see you getting that high |
| 05:04.59 | Seerah | nah |
| 05:05.19 | Shirik | but that's the only good reason I can think of for it actually shutting off |
| 05:05.20 | ZorbaGama | 600w is crazy overkill unless you have dualcore SLI or, like, twelve hard drives |
| 05:05.32 | ZorbaGama | er, dualproc SLI |
| 05:05.38 | Shirik | her core eats up 25% of it :P |
| 05:05.51 | Shirik | Hell I think her CPU makes up about 70% of the power consumption lol |
| 05:05.55 | Shirik | ok maybe not that high |
| 05:05.57 | Shirik | but still it's a lot |
| 05:06.06 | Shirik | fricking AMD |
| 05:06.34 | ZorbaGama | yeah, so that's 25% of it. what's the other 75% going towards? :) |
| 05:06.52 | Shirik | well when I saw that it set me off |
| 05:06.59 | Shirik | after doing the math I can't fit anything else into it though |
| 05:07.14 | Shirik | But in any case, it really can't be the hardware, because we know it worked before |
| 05:07.17 | Seerah | it's not my two disc drives - they were running on my old cpu with 125W psu :p |
| 05:07.22 | Shirik | unless Windows 7 somehow did something really strange |
| 05:07.55 | ZorbaGama | sounds to me like either a CPU issue, a flaky PSU (i.e. flaky beyond "using too much power"), or some weird firmware problem |
| 05:07.59 | Seerah | sometimes it says "boot critical file is corrupt" when attempting repairs. Tried a reinstall of the OS, still happened, though |
| 05:08.05 | ZorbaGama | what's the PSU? |
| 05:08.17 | Shirik | if it were a hardware issue, it would have shown beyfore |
| 05:08.18 | Shirik | before |
| 05:08.22 | Seerah | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103675 |
| 05:08.31 | sylvanaar | !snarf http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171036 |
| 05:08.34 | sylbot | www.newegg.com: Newegg.com - COOLER MASTER Silent Pro 600 RS-600-AMBA-D3 600W ATX12V V2.3 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply - Power Supplies |
| 05:08.35 | Shirik | it's not even an upgrade of the OS, it's just RTM->Release |
| 05:09.04 | Shirik | ok bye time |
| 05:09.09 | sylvanaar | !snarf http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103675 |
| 05:09.13 | sylbot | www.newegg.com: Newegg.com - AMD Phenom II X4 945 Deneb 3.0GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor - Processors - Desktops |
| 05:09.20 | Shirik | where the heck did you get the term 'snarf' |
| 05:09.27 | Fisker | slaps Shirik around a bit with a large trout |
| 05:09.28 | ZorbaGama | hmm, odd that it's release-only. |
| 05:09.34 | Fisker | get on my horse Shirik |
| 05:09.41 | Seerah | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snarf |
| 05:10.00 | Shirik | oh |
| 05:10.11 | Shirik | I only knew the thundercat character |
| 05:10.17 | sylvanaar | !wikipedia snarf |
| 05:10.17 | sylbot | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snarf ===> '''Snarf''' or '''SNARF''' can refer to: *List of ThunderCats characters#The Snarfs|A character in the cartoon ''ThunderCats'' who frequently says the word "Snarf" at the end of a phrase. *Snarf (Trollz)|Snarf, a character from the animated television series ''Trollz''. *The main character from ''SnarfQuest'', a comic that ran in ''Dragon'' |
| 05:10.22 | sylbot | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:10.26 | Seerah | I always think "narf!" from Pinky |
| 05:10.27 | sylvanaar | ooo |
| 05:10.43 | sylvanaar | that was a bit much |
| 05:10.58 | Seerah | sylv, I'm going to have to ask you to stop spamming... :p :D |
| 05:10.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 05:10.59 | Shirik | sylvanaar, does sylbot make up for the stupid mistake of purl? |
| 05:11.07 | Shirik | Do you strip out the infobox? |
| 05:11.37 | sylvanaar | lol Seerah |
| 05:11.40 | Adys | strips Shirik |
| 05:11.46 | Shirik | oh Adys |
| 05:12.00 | Adys | hello goodstuff |
| 05:12.03 | Shirik | not in front of Seerah ok? |
| 05:12.18 | Adys | FINE :( |
| 05:12.21 | Seerah | I already finished my popcorn |
| 05:12.44 | sylvanaar | Shirik i didit write it - its gozerbot |
| 05:13.46 | Adys | The Beta Channel is being updated to 4.0.223.16 which is our first Beta release for 4.0. This release includes many bug fixes and for the first time Bookmark Sync is enabled. Extensions are disabled until the final API changes arrive. Please use the dev channel for the latest extension API. |
| 05:15.22 | Shirik | yes Seerah |
| 05:15.31 | Seerah | hmm? |
| 05:15.49 | Shirik | but I don't want you to get all hot and bothered. You're married and all. And I know my manliness is far too great for most women to handle. |
| 05:16.12 | Shirik | Adys: Beta channel? |
| 05:16.15 | Shirik | This for chrome? |
| 05:16.25 | Shirik | hides from Seerah |
| 05:16.29 | Seerah | Shirik: oh yes - most women can't handle seeing a bean pole stripping ;) |
| 05:16.42 | Shirik | hey I wasn't stripping |
| 05:16.45 | Shirik | that was all Adys ok? |
| 05:17.12 | Adys | shirik gave me the idea |
| 05:17.13 | Seerah | huggles Shirik and hands him a robe |
| 05:17.22 | Seerah | not necessarily in that order |
| 05:17.28 | Shirik | lol |
| 05:19.33 | *** join/#wowuidev govtrust (n=govtrust@189-137.175-24.bham.res.rr.com) |
| 05:19.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (i=lolgourr@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 05:20.18 | Shirik | Fisker |
| 05:20.20 | Shirik | you got owned |
| 05:20.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (n=Vilkku@dsl-tkubrasgw1-ffc7c100-46.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 05:23.02 | Seerah | Shirik, sylvanaar, et al: thanks for trying to help :) I'm off to sleep. night :) |
| 05:23.09 | Shirik | good luck, sorry |
| 05:23.14 | Shirik | night night |
| 05:23.21 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan@c-76-107-191-65.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 05:25.11 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 05:25.13 | Fisker | get on my horse |
| 05:29.28 | sylvanaar | !urban horse |
| 05:29.29 | sylbot | You need to install python-soappy for this plugin, on debian/ubuntu you can use apt-get install python-soappy |
| 05:29.36 | sylvanaar | meh |
| 05:29.44 | Shirik | rofl |
| 05:29.53 | Shirik | !apt-get install python-soappy |
| 05:30.04 | sylvanaar | !quit |
| 05:30.25 | Shirik | heh |
| 05:30.36 | Shirik | sylbot and Shiibot have conflicting commands |
| 05:30.42 | Shirik | I hope he doesn't respond with "you can't do that!" |
| 05:30.45 | sylvanaar | what should i be |
| 05:31.09 | Shirik | well so long as he doesn't respond I don't really care -- like what Shiibot did. It just silently ignored your request |
| 05:31.12 | sylvanaar | => |
| 05:31.40 | Shirik | of course, batbot has a conflicting command too |
| 05:31.52 | Shirik | !quote PRIVMSG #wowuidev :stfu batbot |
| 05:31.53 | batbot | Shirik, privmsg has not said anything with your given pattern. |
| 05:31.53 | Shiibot | stfu batbot |
| 05:32.17 | Shirik | but I don't use that command here and nobody else can so :P |
| 05:33.07 | *** join/#wowuidev sylbot (n=sylbot@cpe-098-122-156-080.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 05:33.26 | sylvanaar | lets see if he does 2 char commands |
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| 05:41.14 | *** join/#wowuidev NightHawkTheSan1 (n=jonathan@li83-182.members.linode.com) |
| 05:43.34 | NightHawkTheSane | get on my horse, i'll take you 'round the universe and all the other places too |
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| 05:58.15 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Kody-] by ChanServ |
| 05:59.46 | *** join/#wowuidev NiLon (i=nilon@unaffiliated/nilon) |
| 06:14.03 | ancu | ~seen ackis |
| 06:14.04 | purl | ackis is currently on #waruidev (15h 3m 6s) #wowhead (15h 3m 6s) #norganna (15h 3m 6s) #wowuidev (15h 3m 6s) #arl (15h 3m 6s) #wowace (15h 3m 6s) #curseforge (15h 3m 6s) #wowwiki (15h 3m 6s). Has said a total of 77 messages. Is idling for 4h 16m 4s, last said: '~kick pompy'. |
| 06:14.34 | ancu | Hey ackis, I dont supose your on dispite your idle time? |
| 06:15.11 | ancu | figures, anyone else up this time of night? |
| 06:16.17 | ancu | What a lively crowd. Okay, I am going into game then. |
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| 06:18.41 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
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| 07:05.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Cairenn (n=Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 07:05.02 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 07:05.03 | *** join/#wowuidev cyndis (i=cyndis@82.128.138.2) |
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| 07:14.50 | NightHawkTheSane | my mind is now officially blown: http://i.imgur.com/9yaDp.jpg |
| 07:16.29 | Fisker- | gentlemen |
| 07:17.22 | Jerub | NightHawkTheSane: how curious. I didn't realise the emmys counted as a 'movie'. |
| 07:17.23 | Adys | lol NightHawkTheSane |
| 07:18.37 | Jerub | of course, when talking about the Erdos-Bacon numbers, you usually don't use Erdos's appearance in 'N is a Number' |
| 07:18.50 | *** join/#wowuidev svenadh (n=sven@L0.moenchengladbach01.fdknet.de) |
| 07:19.10 | Jerub | the movie 'Pi' is usually the shortest path from actors to mathematicians |
| 07:22.31 | Fisker- | hello Jerub |
| 07:22.56 | Adys | Where does apt keep its index? |
| 07:23.07 | Adys | I want to browse the installed package index of another partition |
| 07:23.21 | *** join/#wowuidev AbsolutRayne (n=chatzill@XPLR-MCI-74-127-239-30.barrettxplore.com) |
| 07:23.39 | Jerub | Adys: it's in a place |
| 07:23.49 | Thunder_Child | ipod touch $400, blizz authenticator free, having to restore your ipod for 20 min just to get on wow.....fucking fail |
| 07:23.58 | Jerub | in /var/lib/dpkg/ or something |
| 07:24.03 | Jerub | status, available, etc |
| 07:25.23 | Adys | yeah fuck it |
| 07:25.41 | Jerub | it responds really well to grep. |
| 07:25.45 | Adys | ls /media/disk/usr/include | grep gl | xargs dlocate |
| 07:25.52 | Fisker- | Thunder_Child you could've stopped at ipod |
| 07:26.27 | Thunder_Child | Fisker, yes but "ipod touch $400" isnt very entertaining |
| 07:26.47 | Fisker- | maybe |
| 07:26.50 | Fisker- | but let me hear you say it |
| 07:26.59 | Thunder_Child | ipod touch $400 |
| 07:27.06 | Fisker- | WRONG |
| 07:27.50 | Thunder_Child | feel better Fisker? |
| 07:27.53 | Thunder_Child | Fisker-* |
| 07:28.03 | Adys | dlocate is the best thing ever |
| 07:29.00 | Adys | someone help me out |
| 07:29.15 | cogwheel | http://blog.cogwheel.info/2009/11/doing-wave.html |
| 07:29.17 | Jerub | what are you actually trying to do? |
| 07:29.31 | Adys | wine's configure isn't locating my opengl, freetype and xorg dev libs |
| 07:30.48 | Adys | cogwheel: you cant honestly expect tv media to report tangible stories about a product that isnt even accessible to mainstream |
| 07:31.18 | cogwheel | Adys: the poor media coverage is a symptom of the problem imo, as i explain further ;) |
| 07:31.28 | AbsolutRayne | I hate Twin Valks heroic. |
| 07:31.30 | AbsolutRayne | Hatehatehate. |
| 07:31.45 | Jerub | AbsolutRayne: hm? I've never had problems? |
| 07:31.58 | Jerub | AbsolutRayne: wait, togc or toc? |
| 07:31.59 | AbsolutRayne | ...in ToGC? Not normal. |
| 07:32.02 | Adys | yeah gimme a min you spammed me that link 1 min ago and Im trying to sort libs out |
| 07:32.43 | Jerub | AbsolutRayne: ah, yeah, i've read that can be bad. |
| 07:32.49 | Jerub | do you have soakers? |
| 07:34.24 | Fisker- | TL;CR cogwheel |
| 07:34.33 | cogwheel | i no rite? |
| 07:34.38 | Jerub | perhaps, TL;DR ? |
| 07:35.02 | Adys | cogwheel: Besides the basic failure to demonstrate the benefits of Wave, we have also failed to separate the Google from the Wave. Much fuss has been made about Wave as implemented by the big G. (...) |
| 07:35.08 | Adys | er |
| 07:35.14 | Adys | they released a protoco |
| 07:35.16 | Adys | nvm |
| 07:35.19 | Adys | fuck me ill just read. |
| 07:35.27 | cogwheel | XD |
| 07:35.57 | AbsolutRayne | Jerub: Yeah were using the Filter strat. Sorry we went for another attempt |
| 07:36.07 | Fisker- | naw Jerub |
| 07:36.17 | AbsolutRayne | I am so bloody tired >_< |
| 07:36.30 | Fisker- | But atleast my biggest problem with Wave is that it's not google mail |
| 07:36.32 | Jerub | AbsolutRayne: I can't imagine the hell that faction champs on togc will be |
| 07:36.35 | *** join/#wowuidev mitch0 (n=mitch@www.drvolomdental.hu) |
| 07:36.44 | Fisker- | Having mail and Wave running simultaneously defeats the purpose |
| 07:36.47 | AbsolutRayne | Jerub: It depends on the group |
| 07:36.50 | NightHawkTheSane | cogwheel: have you seen this article about playin an rpg on wave? http://gameplaywright.net/?p=1019 |
| 07:37.01 | cogwheel | Case in point ^ |
| 07:37.01 | Jerub | some how the scrub toc10 group i had managed to down faction champs using a grand total of 2 interrupts. |
| 07:37.02 | cogwheel | :P |
| 07:37.14 | Adys | cogwheel: why do people think google wave UI is complicated? |
| 07:37.17 | AbsolutRayne | Our guilds been lucky the last 3 weeks that we havent got a heavy melee group. Before that, we got it every week, and our healers just got dominated left and right no matter what we did. |
| 07:37.28 | Adys | it's slightly complex, but very smooth and straightforward imo |
| 07:37.49 | Jerub | we didn't have the drood to deal with, which helped. |
| 07:37.59 | Dagmar | Adys: Low IQs |
| 07:38.08 | AbsolutRayne | Jerub: If the Enhancement Shaman isnt there, its practically a gg for us. |
| 07:38.08 | Jerub | but still, that shamman must've healed himself to full 3 times before we downed him. |
| 07:38.12 | Adys | i mean |
| 07:38.16 | AbsolutRayne | Something about him is like our bad luck charm. |
| 07:38.30 | Adys | the screenshots with people with 200 waves in their inbox, and a giant editor with a bunch of plugins |
| 07:38.32 | Adys | sure |
| 07:38.58 | Adys | but its like showing someone wow by showing him a screenshot of a healing priest's raidleader interface |
| 07:39.21 | Adys | s/'s// |
| 07:39.22 | AbsolutRayne | http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/SinOfDreams/WoWScrnShot_110209_233745.jpg Things to do: Seperate Crit and Regular Text, move DBM Timer Bars, get Error soaking addon to work. |
| 07:39.37 | Adys | see thats EXACTLY what i mean AbsolutRayne |
| 07:39.57 | cogwheel | Adys: can't find the example that was on my mind when i wrote that... |
| 07:40.14 | AbsolutRayne | Adys: ¿por que? |
| 07:40.23 | cogwheel | somebody who completely missed the point and I can totally understand why. |
| 07:40.31 | Fisker- | http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/02/sony-ericsson-xperia-x10-announced-we-go-hands-on/ <-they better fix teh lag ;E |
| 07:40.48 | AbsolutRayne | Sorry im mad tired. |
| 07:42.08 | Adys | when I got my wave invite i hadn't seen any of the empty screenshots |
| 07:42.22 | Adys | i was expecting something kinda busy |
| 07:42.28 | AbsolutRayne | remains confused |
| 07:42.29 | Adys | and i got something really empty |
| 07:42.57 | Adys | 2 contacts, a couple of empty folders, an inbox with 3 simple waves |
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| 08:00.15 | cogwheel | hmm... |
| 08:00.19 | cog|sleep | nn |
| 08:02.03 | Fisker- | hugs cog|sleep |
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| 08:10.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 08:11.52 | cog|sleep | stupid alarm clock... they gave it a daylight saving time switch but it also modifies the time of the alarms by an hour... |
| 08:13.34 | Trela | WTF kind of feature is that? |
| 08:14.52 | Fisker- | So it changes clock to for example 07:00 and alarm to 06:00? :P |
| 08:15.29 | amro | another reason to drop DST |
| 08:16.39 | Fisker- | DST is awesome!11 |
| 08:20.49 | Jerub | sounds like it's storing the alarms in UTC |
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| 08:23.25 | Fisker- | *sigh* |
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| 08:23.54 | Fisker- | "zomg this program doesn't work so i deleted the files but one was copy protected(because it's a service) and now i get all these errors when windows starts up" |
| 08:24.06 | Fisker- | l2fuckingcontrolpanel |
| 08:24.07 | Fisker- | :/ |
| 08:24.53 | robotusch | :( |
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| 08:25.56 | Fisker- | hej robotusch |
| 08:26.26 | Fisker- | du skylder mig tuuuuuuusiiiiiiiind kroner |
| 08:26.26 | robotusch | hej Fusker |
| 08:26.30 | robotusch | fu |
| 08:26.40 | Fisker- | minder mig om |
| 08:26.48 | Fisker- | Holger skylder mig tuuuuuuuuuusiiiiiiiiiind/4 kroner |
| 08:28.26 | robotusch | d'aww |
| 08:28.54 | Fisker- | you know what's funny? |
| 08:29.06 | Fisker- | When people have connectivity issues when playing WoW |
| 08:29.17 | Fisker- | and when the ISP has claimed responsibility but can't be arsed |
| 08:29.28 | Fisker- | said people still think the proper course of action is to cancel their wow accounts |
| 08:29.29 | Fisker- | ;3 |
| 08:29.35 | robotusch | xD |
| 08:30.00 | Fisker- | And telling them to grow a pair = trolling :/ |
| 08:30.08 | Wobin | jesus.... http://www.thewosexperience.com/ |
| 08:30.34 | Jerub | Fisker-: QQQ |
| 08:30.34 | Fisker- | haha |
| 08:30.39 | Fisker- | apple fags really will buy anything |
| 08:31.33 | Fisker- | don't worry Jerub |
| 08:31.38 | Fisker- | i'm behind over 9000 boxxies |
| 08:32.09 | robotusch | stabs Fisker with a spork |
| 08:33.49 | Codayus | Wobin: Is that link a joke? It is, right? :-( |
| 08:34.10 | Fisker- | Probably |
| 08:34.23 | Fisker- | But it will forever be used as fuel in my apple hate |
| 08:38.55 | Hjalte | Wobin: Am I a bad person, when the only thing I read from the title of your link was sex for 5-6 seconds? |
| 08:39.30 | Hjalte | I did think to myself "the wo sex". Hmm. |
| 08:42.16 | mikma | jesus fucking christ usa, uss new york? let me guess, you're gonna huke the talebans with that, just to get the last word |
| 08:42.17 | Wobin | Codayus, I believe it's completely true >< |
| 08:42.24 | mikma | "REVENGE OF WTC!" |
| 08:42.42 | mikma | huke=nuke |
| 08:42.46 | Wobin | mikma, only if they name the gun turrets "Tower 1" and "Tower 2" |
| 08:42.55 | mikma | wobin: hahaha |
| 08:43.11 | mikma | no, wait, they propably will |
| 08:43.24 | ccox | Nighthawk - sorry, but the oracle can't reproduce that result |
| 08:43.33 | mikma | just wait and see, that ship is gonna carry the latest technology of cave-blasting |
| 08:43.45 | Codayus | Wobin: Hmmm. Scary. |
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| 08:43.50 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Esamynn|Away] by ChanServ |
| 08:44.43 | ccox | NightHawkTheSane: ok, it can, if you turn on a couple of obscure options |
| 08:45.01 | Fisker- | Then i'm a bad person too Hjalte :( |
| 08:45.32 | Arrowmaster | current navy naming scheme is after states, it probably just came up in the predetermined list |
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| 08:46.06 | mikma | arrowmaster: suuuuuure |
| 08:48.31 | Arrowmaster | oh nvm, i googled it and yeah somebody is trying to influence the public on that one |
| 08:48.40 | Codayus | Arrowmaster: Close but not. It's named after the city, not the state, as a member of the San Antonio class amphibious assault dock. |
| 08:49.08 | Codayus | Other ships of the class include San Diego, New Orleans, etc. (And I have no data on whether the name was predetermined or not.) |
| 08:49.10 | Fisker- | nice |
| 08:49.14 | Fisker- | North Korea got nukes |
| 08:49.31 | Fisker- | puts on a pair of goggles |
| 08:50.15 | Arrowmaster | previously the name was held by a nuclear sub which are named after states afaik |
| 08:51.21 | Fisker- | subs can carry nukes too :( |
| 08:51.27 | Arrowmaster | "The name New York was reportedly revived for the warship (which was already under construction) at the request of New York governor George Pataki to commemorate the September 11 terrorist attacks on the U.S., creating an exception to current U.S. Navy policy of using state names only for nuclear submarines." |
| 08:51.34 | Arrowmaster | somebody wants reelected |
| 08:52.29 | Arrowmaster | i thought there were large ships named after states, or is it only new subs can be named after states |
| 08:52.31 | msoul | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:52.34 | Fisker- | is he the guy who was strongly opposed to changing the term limits and now that his second term is up he will gladly have it changed? :D |
| 08:52.38 | msoul | No offense intended |
| 08:52.52 | msoul | but there are a lot better issues that the government should focus on :) |
| 08:52.54 | Codayus | Hmm, interesting. Wikipedia claims the ship is named after the STATE of New York, despite the fact that every other member of the class is named after a city. Hmm. (Not that it matters, I guess...) |
| 08:53.22 | Arrowmaster | Codayus: well the city is 'new york city' not 'new york' |
| 08:53.38 | msoul | NYC! |
| 08:54.14 | Arrowmaster | msoul: NK is probably one of the few countries run by a man crazy enough to actually use nukes |
| 08:54.57 | msoul | Alright but he didn't |
| 08:55.30 | Codayus | Arrowmaster: I think it's technically New York, New York. Calling it NYC is just to distinguish it, but isn't part of it's official name. I think? |
| 08:55.32 | Fisker- | Doubt they want to use them actually |
| 08:56.11 | Arrowmaster | didnt he openly say he wanted to destroy japan? |
| 08:56.26 | msoul | Call it "threat" |
| 08:56.46 | msoul | Your government used it on japan :) |
| 08:56.52 | stuf | NK is a prime example of a troll contry. "Problem, world?" |
| 08:57.06 | Fisker- | naw stuf |
| 08:57.10 | Codayus | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_ship_naming_conventions |
| 08:57.38 | Codayus | Apparently the naming rules are "there are no rules". I am vaguely amused that ammunition ships are named after volcanoes though. >.> |
| 08:57.42 | stuf | but i dont really believe that nk has nukes. just "lol we blew our whole supply of tnt underground" |
| 08:58.12 | mitch0 | stuf: I don't think it's _that_ hard to build a nuke |
| 08:58.21 | msoul | They do so does Iran but those aren't really a threat to the US soil |
| 08:58.42 | msoul | excuse my poor english as i happen to have difficulties expressing my self in english |
| 09:00.18 | msoul | bbiaw |
| 09:08.15 | Fisker- | stupid msoul and his chatkilling |
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| 09:15.22 | Fisker- | oh you Elkano |
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| 09:18.55 | mikma | http://www.geekologie.com/2009/11/youre_doing_it_wrong_crazy_for.php |
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| 09:23.16 | Fisker- | lol |
| 09:25.13 | _rane | :D |
| 09:25.20 | _rane | lol indeed |
| 09:26.22 | Fisker- | he definitely got all bonus points and achievements with that |
| 09:27.06 | Hjalte | What is wrong with American television. Did they move House yet another week now? |
| 09:29.27 | _rane | hm, next house: 9th of november |
| 09:30.10 | Hjalte | Same thing happened last week. It would never happen in Denmark. Nuff said. |
| 09:31.56 | Fisker- | Denmark is awesome |
| 09:32.07 | Fisker- | unlike norway |
| 09:32.11 | Fisker- | isn't that right haste ? |
| 09:32.35 | Hjalte | I think we all have to agree with Fisker. |
| 09:33.59 | Arrowmaster | did somebody new takeover fox? bad things happen to existing shows when management changes for american networks |
| 09:34.55 | *** join/#wowuidev neOliv (n=oliv@htr06-1-82-227-228-20.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 09:34.56 | Arrowmaster | they never outright cancel a show but sabotage it so the ratings go down and they can justify canceling it |
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| 09:48.11 | Fisker- | looooool |
| 09:48.25 | Fisker- | Piracy as a scapegoat ftw |
| 09:48.53 | Fisker- | Claiming that piracy is responsible for a bad bargaining point in getting paid for game related music tracks |
| 09:49.14 | Fisker- | "baw baw we need moar money, and piracy removes moar money, so we can't extort game companies as well, bawww" |
| 09:49.47 | Fisker- | sips a cup of BAWWWWWWW |
| 09:49.56 | Cide- | so I had to resort to installing unix |
| 09:50.08 | Cide- | and it permafreezes on me every 5 minutes |
| 09:50.10 | Cide- | UNIX SUCKS |
| 09:50.47 | Fisker- | You're the reason Microsoft is on the brink of destruction Cide- |
| 09:50.49 | Fisker- | PIRATE |
| 09:51.00 | Cide- | huh? |
| 09:51.04 | Cide- | I'm not pirating windows |
| 09:51.09 | Fisker- | no |
| 09:51.14 | Fisker- | but you're not buying it |
| 09:51.19 | Fisker- | and that's piracy |
| 09:51.29 | Cide- | I have windows 7 legally |
| 09:51.41 | Fisker- | oh yeah? |
| 09:51.44 | Kalroth | I got Barely Legal 7 |
| 09:51.45 | Fisker- | THen you're not buying enough |
| 09:51.46 | Fisker- | :D |
| 09:52.06 | Fisker- | you need a copy of Windows 7 or Windows Server 2008 for every computer or server you have |
| 09:52.12 | Kalroth | But why would you install unix if you got win7? |
| 09:52.33 | Cide- | because I'm doing a project involving geospatial databases |
| 09:52.53 | Fisker- | Do it on windows |
| 09:52.55 | Cide- | and GEOS doesn't have windows binaries and I spent like 5 hours yesterday trying to compile it |
| 09:53.22 | Fisker- | branch a windows port |
| 09:53.25 | Kalroth | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GEOS_(8-bit_operating_system) |
| 09:53.49 | Cide- | yeah, that's it |
| 09:53.56 | Kalroth | it isn't http://trac.osgeo.org/geos/ |
| 09:53.58 | Kalroth | cant be |
| 09:54.08 | Cide- | it is |
| 09:54.34 | Fisker- | i call piracy |
| 09:54.47 | Fisker- | "Yarr" |
| 09:55.13 | Kalroth | and you couldn't get them to compile? in VS? |
| 09:55.56 | Cide- | no |
| 09:56.31 | neOliv | Hi there... (new to this chan) |
| 09:56.32 | neOliv | do |
| 09:56.53 | neOliv | does anyone of you have experience with the wowcombatlog parsing? |
| 09:56.58 | Kalroth | Cide-: http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/basemap/doc/html/users/installing.html got Windows binaries included |
| 09:57.20 | Kalroth | I think |
| 09:57.29 | neOliv | my point is that I'm a bit disappointed by the time stamps there |
| 09:57.36 | Kalroth | neOliv: why |
| 09:57.46 | neOliv | I looked at the delay between a cast "start" and a "heal" for some spells |
| 09:57.57 | neOliv | and the durations vary a lot (about 30%) |
| 09:58.02 | Kalroth | yup |
| 09:58.12 | neOliv | is that a known fact? |
| 09:58.17 | neOliv | or am I missing something? |
| 09:58.20 | Kalroth | that's called internet latency, server latency and client latency |
| 09:58.21 | Cide- | it's called client-server |
| 09:58.39 | neOliv | I was under the impression that the timestamps were made server-side |
| 09:58.57 | Kalroth | they aren't and even if they were, then it wouldn't matter |
| 09:59.18 | smoke_ | TargetofTargetHealthBar -> TargetFrameToTHealthBar |
| 09:59.36 | smoke_ | TargetofTargetManaBar -> TargetFrameToTManaBar |
| 09:59.42 | smoke_ | mt sorry |
| 10:00.23 | neOliv | ... wondering how I can workaround that... |
| 10:00.37 | neOliv | do you know a way to compute the "actual" GCD using only the logs? |
| 10:00.38 | Kalroth | work around what? |
| 10:01.23 | neOliv | my hope/goal is to graph combats more acurately |
| 10:01.26 | Kalroth | not really, but if your player is a spammer then there will be a ton of "not ready yet" messages in the log |
| 10:01.54 | Kalroth | you can use them to see his real GCD, but it's not possible for anyone else |
| 10:02.31 | neOliv | hum... so the timestamps are "client" side? |
| 10:02.38 | Kalroth | yes |
| 10:03.14 | smoke_ | how do i find out what is in the frames table? |
| 10:03.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide| (n=Andre@h238n1-far-gr100.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 10:03.24 | Kalroth | that's also why log merging is rather funky - if it was server side, then it'd be pretty easy :p |
| 10:03.34 | neOliv | thank kalroth... will ponder that |
| 10:03.57 | Kalroth | are you sure you need "actual" GCD though? |
| 10:04.04 | Kalroth | since it'll differ a lot between each player |
| 10:04.41 | neOliv | I want to compute a GCD per player (and per fight "phase" , BL and the like) |
| 10:04.54 | neOliv | to detect players that are not "chain casting" properly |
| 10:05.47 | neOliv | I guess I could try to save the effective haste ratings of every player in the raid via an addon... and collect that while parsing |
| 10:05.50 | Codayus | neOliv: Sounds hard, but... You could potentially try and work backwards by looking through the combat log for buffs that effect haste. |
| 10:06.21 | neOliv | codayus... already done that. |
| 10:06.31 | Codayus | You don't know the base haste, but you can estimate it by seeing how many spells the player is packing into periods when they don't have heroism/PI/trinket procs... |
| 10:06.34 | Codayus | Heh |
| 10:06.50 | neOliv | the thing is a "vanilla" flash heal has already a 30% variation on the strat->heal duration |
| 10:07.20 | neOliv | test done in a low population zone, with no sensible lag... |
| 10:07.29 | neOliv | and my connection is not bad |
| 10:08.00 | neOliv | it looked huge... so I was wondering if I was just plain dumb of if it was something known :( |
| 10:08.07 | neOliv | il looks like it is a known problem |
| 10:08.48 | Codayus | 30% seems a bit high, but I haven't looked t osee what I get. |
| 10:09.08 | neOliv | this is the maximum variation on 50 casts. |
| 10:09.17 | neOliv | but 20% is common |
| 10:09.31 | Codayus | With enough data points, you should be able to calculate a pretty good estimate anyhow though. Hm. |
| 10:09.55 | neOliv | I hope so... but not convinced for the moment |
| 10:10.28 | neOliv | I new to the "addon" programming... (was hopping to just parse/process the wowcombatlog) |
| 10:11.05 | neOliv | do you know if a simple addon can save these sort of stats and then collect them later while parsing the log files? |
| 10:11.18 | neOliv | (haste rating, HP, ...) |
| 10:11.46 | neOliv | because if I'm correct you do not know the actual HP of a player (until he's dead of course ;) |
| 10:12.02 | neOliv | this hast problem is just the first one I've stumble upon |
| 10:12.17 | neOliv | but I fear the logs are a bit poor for a real "fine" combat analysis |
| 10:12.21 | Codayus | *nod* You can work backwards, and several addons do that to display a "why did player X die" readout. Recount, among others. |
| 10:12.33 | neOliv | recount is using IG data |
| 10:12.47 | neOliv | I was planning to use only the combatlog "out of the game" |
| 10:12.57 | neOliv | but I see I will have to go further... damn' :) |
| 10:13.31 | Codayus | I *think* recount does that analysis purely from the combatlog. In game, yes, but it doesn't monitor health or anything. ...I admit, I haven't checked though, just making wild assumptions. :) |
| 10:13.35 | neOliv | I guess recount has no need to work backward... IG you have access to player stats (If I'm not mistaken) |
| 10:14.00 | Pneumatus | neOliv: several oog combat log parsers exist |
| 10:14.15 | Pneumatus | stasiscl/apostasis is a BSD licensed one, for example |
| 10:14.36 | neOliv | ah... I did not know about this one |
| 10:14.48 | neOliv | do you know more parser/analysers? |
| 10:14.59 | Pneumatus | well, wws and world of logs, but they are closed source |
| 10:15.02 | neOliv | (I've checked the online ones like wws/world of log) |
| 10:15.23 | Pneumatus | there's a stand-alone real time log analysis app about as well |
| 10:15.28 | Kalroth | stasis cl |
| 10:15.36 | Kalroth | it's open source perl |
| 10:15.39 | neOliv | ok... these are good suggestions |
| 10:15.49 | Kalroth | http://code.google.com/p/stasiscl/ |
| 10:16.13 | Pneumatus | stasiscl appears to be abandoned though, apostasis is an updated fork |
| 10:16.20 | neOliv | ok |
| 10:16.23 | Kalroth | oh |
| 10:16.27 | Pneumatus | http://code.google.com/p/apostasis/ |
| 10:16.50 | neOliv | FYI: i've alredy done the parser part |
| 10:17.27 | neOliv | I'm now using it to graph... |
| 10:17.27 | neOliv | and just discovering the "wonderful world of warcraft logs" :) |
| 10:17.27 | Pneumatus | WowPlot is a grapher, and there's a graphing app been made fror apostasis too |
| 10:17.57 | Pneumatus | http://wiki.github.com/wickedgrey/wowspi |
| 10:18.17 | Pneumatus | infact wowspi might parse itself as well |
| 10:19.23 | neOliv | nice to have a "state of the art" |
| 10:19.44 | neOliv | I've done a google search on this topic but missed these parser/graphers |
| 10:19.49 | neOliv | thank you for the pointers |
| 10:25.09 | neOliv | concerning the ability of an addon to "save" data. |
| 10:25.18 | neOliv | IIRC each addon has only access to one file? |
| 10:25.27 | neOliv | but can it trigger a "save"? |
| 10:26.02 | Pneumatus | addons only write their saved vars to disk on a reloadui |
| 10:26.19 | neOliv | that was my point |
| 10:26.19 | neOliv | thx |
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| 10:28.09 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
| 10:28.11 | *** part/#wowuidev e0\m2x (n=no@c-24-20-116-119.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 10:35.55 | Fisker- | sigh |
| 10:36.16 | Fisker- | People dismissing memory issues when they've tested it on "way more hardware intensive games" |
| 10:36.40 | Fisker- | gg not understanding that most non-mmo's are usually not that stressful on anything but your GPU |
| 10:37.10 | Fisker- | not to mention that his memory is overclocked and the STOP 0x000000D1 message screams memory issues |
| 10:44.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (n=callahan@74-132-200-5.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 10:49.39 | Torhal | overclocks Fisker-'s milk production. |
| 10:49.48 | Kalroth | ick what |
| 10:50.07 | Kalroth | Did we just go there? Fiskers milk? Really?! |
| 10:50.37 | Torhal | <.< |
| 10:50.49 | Torhal | He's the one who's always talking about thousands of liters of milk. |
| 10:51.09 | msoul | Milk is good! |
| 10:51.44 | Fisker- | well the amount of thousand-liter-milk-orders have gone down recently |
| 10:52.15 | Kalroth | Milk from a cow is good, milk from a Fisker is .. well :/ |
| 10:52.28 | Torhal | You have the wrong idea. |
| 10:52.44 | msoul | Kalroth: you milking Fisker-? |
| 10:52.48 | Torhal | Fisker-: is incapable of producing milk. |
| 10:52.50 | Kalroth | oh hell no |
| 10:52.57 | msoul | haha |
| 10:53.12 | msoul | As Borat puts it "Liquid explosion" |
| 10:53.28 | Kalroth | Torhal: google for man milk and you'll see what I mean! |
| 10:53.33 | Torhal | ... |
| 10:53.53 | Torhal | I don't need to google - I do possess intellect of sufficient degree. |
| 10:53.58 | Kalroth | Weeeell |
| 10:54.07 | Kalroth | What country are you from again? |
| 10:54.14 | Fisker- | they teach man milk in school? |
| 10:54.24 | Kalroth | Oh, you're a chav |
| 10:54.30 | Kalroth | I rest my case! |
| 10:54.42 | msoul | I don't think I have heard that term before "man milk" |
| 10:54.54 | msoul | I think that's the academic term for a BJ |
| 10:55.03 | Torhal | Doesn't matter if you've never heard it - the inference is obvious. |
| 10:55.10 | Kalroth | No it isn't, msoul |
| 10:55.18 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (n=kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 10:58.25 | Jerub | where's the login screen message url? |
| 10:59.23 | Fisker- | ~wowalert |
| 10:59.25 | purl | http://launcher.worldofwarcraft.com/alert (US); http://status.wow-europe.com/en/alert (EU) [NB: URL goes to 404 unless there's an active alert] |
| 10:59.28 | Fisker- | l2purl |
| 10:59.29 | Wobin | http://i.imgur.com/61aXE.jpg |
| 11:00.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (i=caleb@client-136-142.wifi.elte.hu) |
| 11:01.30 | Fisker- | btw |
| 11:02.04 | Fisker- | i liked how someone argued that merged accounts on battle.net were like a keyring if you lose the keyring you lose all of your keys |
| 11:02.31 | Fisker- | Then i said that his computer security was like a hole in his pocket and nomatter how many keys or keyrings he fit in there it would fall through the hole :P |
| 11:03.52 | Wobin | Fisker: Your grasp of analogy is like... a very graspy thing |
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| 11:07.13 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (n=stolenle@d86-33-207-79.cust.tele2.at) |
| 11:09.45 | Cide- | the hell? |
| 11:11.06 | Cide- | nvm |
| 11:11.41 | Torhal | Uh |
| 11:11.55 | Torhal | I decided to finally watch season 4 of My Name Is Earl |
| 11:12.12 | Torhal | Randy just yelled "Leeroy Jenkins" and jumped into a crowd of 30 people. |
| 11:12.42 | stuf | :[ |
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| 11:18.46 | Fisker- | successful troll reporting for duty Wobin |
| 11:18.50 | Fisker- | Btw funny |
| 11:19.13 | Fisker- | she(as it turns out) just opened a new threada |
| 11:19.27 | Fisker- | apparently a guildies of hers had been hacked, and he/she had battle.net as well!!1 |
| 11:19.43 | Fisker- | So until a non-battle.net guildie gets hacked she won't believe that battle.net is secure! |
| 11:19.59 | Fisker- | I wonder if she even have anyone who doesn't have battle.net by now |
| 11:23.15 | Wobin | Fisker-, not til the 11th =P |
| 11:23.54 | A-KO | they can kick and scream all they want their arguments don't matter :P |
| 11:24.07 | Fisker- | i just hate ignorance |
| 11:24.25 | Fisker- | not in a way that i hate them just for being it |
| 11:24.43 | Fisker- | But explaining them to it and they'll still go "Lalala can't hear you" |
| 11:28.24 | *** join/#wowuidev bleeter (n=bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 11:29.11 | Fisker- | hey bleeter |
| 11:32.06 | *** join/#wowuidev jadakren (n=airtonix@ppp118-210-158-66.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net) |
| 11:39.53 | Industrial | Is there a website/service that lists all artists albums and I can mark which I have and don't have (so I know what to look for if I would ever like to complete the collection (digitally :P)) |
| 11:40.55 | Fisker- | pirate |
| 11:41.13 | Industrial | ha? |
| 11:41.25 | Fisker- | Not buying the same track several times = piracy |
| 11:41.38 | jadakren | fisker is in his wambulance on his way to your house with his clown brigade |
| 11:41.43 | Fisker- | naw jadakren |
| 11:41.51 | jadakren | ok sorry |
| 11:41.54 | Fisker- | music industry is in their wambulance |
| 11:41.58 | Fisker- | i'm emulating the music industry |
| 11:42.01 | Fisker- | brb |
| 11:42.25 | Industrial | were in ur wambulance, collecting ur monies? |
| 11:42.28 | Fisker- | and obviously they keep putting on similar tracks for that very reason |
| 11:42.35 | Fisker- | i.e. earning money on tracks you already bought |
| 11:43.01 | Industrial | they are making downloading illegal now in the netherlands |
| 11:43.05 | Industrial | right now only uploading is |
| 11:43.17 | Industrial | but it will only be illegal from 'illegal sources' which by far isn't yet defined |
| 11:44.31 | *** join/#wowuidev krka (n=krka@88.80.164.157) |
| 11:44.31 | A-KO | you do know that itunes doesn't have drm, right? so you can pretty much do whatever with what you download off of there :P |
| 11:44.40 | A-KO | pay for it once, copy it to all your devices |
| 11:44.58 | Industrial | I'd rather download the FLAC discographies |
| 11:45.02 | Industrial | :E |
| 11:45.33 | Industrial | actually if you buy the right to the contents not the medium, they should release everything in WAV |
| 11:46.17 | A-KO | yes but it's not what consumers have wanted |
| 11:46.37 | A-KO | the only reason people use anything other than MP3 is because the other utilities force them to (see: itunes) |
| 11:46.57 | Industrial | eh? nah |
| 11:47.06 | A-KO | they tried to release higher quality audio in the market, it failed (see: DVD-Audio) |
| 11:47.12 | A-KO | most sound devices couldn't even play the quality |
| 11:47.23 | Industrial | well most open source players can |
| 11:47.28 | A-KO | you had to have an X-Fi from Creative to even play those in a PC properly (24-bit/96kHz) |
| 11:47.45 | Industrial | oh, well yeah |
| 11:47.55 | Industrial | but you can convert from flac to MP3 any time you want |
| 11:47.58 | Industrial | not the other way around |
| 11:48.13 | Industrial | well you probably can (?) but that'd suck :p |
| 11:48.23 | A-KO | yes, but what I'm saying is, a vast majority of people don't give a shit, and it's not economically feasible to try and cater to the niche :P |
| 11:49.00 | Jerub | the real problem is that audiophiles are just wanking, and most of them are half deaf. |
| 11:49.08 | A-KO | lol |
| 11:49.37 | Jerub | most high end audio tests come down to subjective comparisons based on the brand name and the packaging. |
| 11:49.45 | Kalroth | Jerub: WHAT, I CANT HEAR YOU BECAUSE OF HOW AWESOME MY FLAC MUSIC IS |
| 11:49.53 | A-KO | see: Denon $500 ethernet cable |
| 11:50.33 | A-KO | http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3429.asp |
| 11:50.55 | Kalroth | that's just dumb |
| 11:51.09 | A-KO | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:51.15 | A-KO | ^^^ markings for "optimum transfer" |
| 11:51.16 | Kalroth | I mean, really really really dumb |
| 11:53.06 | A-KO | some website did a test where people couldn't tell the difference between a coat hanger and monster cables |
| 11:53.34 | Jerub | more recently there was a test between some different digital audio recorders. the sony one came out head and shoulders above the other two. |
| 11:53.55 | Jerub | then they realised all of the digital audio files were identical and they were comparing like to like. |
| 11:54.06 | Codayus | To be fair, just because cables are a racket doesn't mean that *all* concerns with audio quality and compression are silly. |
| 11:55.27 | Codayus | (But with audio, as with pretty much everything else, if they're not running double blind tests then you should ignore the results.) |
| 11:55.52 | A-KO | I can tell a clear difference between radio and my ipod :P |
| 11:56.04 | A-KO | and generally between 128kbps mp3s and something better |
| 11:56.24 | A-KO | the radio -> ipod difference is like night and day though on what you can hear and the quality it has |
| 11:57.40 | *** join/#wowuidev andre_ (n=andre@h238n1-far-gr100.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 11:57.42 | Fisker- | A-KO fucking thank you |
| 11:57.43 | Fisker- | :3 |
| 11:57.50 | Fisker- | I've looked for that ethernet cable for ages |
| 11:58.42 | A-KO | lol |
| 11:58.56 | A-KO | apparently it comes with a free blowjob |
| 11:59.01 | A-KO | not listed on the page though |
| 11:59.24 | A-KO | sigh |
| 11:59.25 | A-KO | okay |
| 11:59.29 | A-KO | I think it's time to hit a gym |
| 11:59.29 | Fisker- | :D |
| 11:59.32 | Codayus | At that price, it should come with a lot more than that... |
| 11:59.33 | Fisker- | seriously though |
| 11:59.39 | Fisker- | i lol'd when i saw it at that price |
| 11:59.41 | A-KO | I've eaten less, and do more activity, and I think I've put on weight |
| 11:59.45 | Fisker- | so i've looked for it to lol even more |
| 12:02.33 | bleeter | Industrial: sorta like musicbrainz? |
| 12:03.26 | bleeter | Fisker-: Not buying the same track several times = piracy << format shifting in .au is perfectly legal, as are backups, and copies for immediate family members |
| 12:03.52 | Fisker- | seriously |
| 12:03.57 | Fisker- | i'm behind atleast 9000 boxxies |
| 12:04.05 | A-KO | yes but nobody actually does those things |
| 12:04.07 | A-KO | or very few people do |
| 12:04.11 | A-KO | most people just flat out want to pirate |
| 12:04.27 | A-KO | you hear it in the xbox games pirating all the time: "Oh I'm only downloading this as a BACKUP" lol |
| 12:04.27 | bleeter | principal is if I buy a CD, my bro will probably borrow it and put it on his iPod |
| 12:05.15 | bleeter | can't do that to circumvent any inherant protection tho, in .au |
| 12:07.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Legorol (n=legorol@82-41-49-132.cable.ubr07.sgyl.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 12:07.07 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Legorol] by ChanServ |
| 12:10.13 | Fisker- | bah |
| 12:10.19 | Fisker- | news ftw |
| 12:10.33 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR (n=doingwha@unaffiliated/dwsr) |
| 12:10.39 | DWSR | Full maintenance this week? |
| 12:10.42 | Fisker- | :O |
| 12:10.45 | Fisker- | ~wowalert |
| 12:11.04 | purl | http://launcher.worldofwarcraft.com/alert (US); http://status.wow-europe.com/en/alert (EU) [NB: URL goes to 404 unless there's an active alert] |
| 12:19.28 | Industrial | bleeter: maybe! |
| 12:20.08 | Fisker- | goodbye cruel #wowuidev |
| 12:22.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide- (n=Andre@h238n1-far-gr100.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 12:22.05 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
| 12:24.36 | DWSR | omg. |
| 12:24.39 | DWSR | he quit? |
| 12:25.12 | Kalroth | \o/ |
| 12:25.16 | DWSR | ^^ |
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| 12:49.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Trela_ (n=alexia@74-94-36-102-Philadelphia.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 12:53.39 | Cide- | you quit |
| 12:53.55 | Cide- | god, compiling this shit takes way too long |
| 12:54.11 | Cide- | if this errors I'm going to smack someone |
| 12:54.27 | Trela_ | gives Cide a cup of coffee. |
| 12:54.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper (n=Spellsha@dslb-084-057-247-030.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:04.50 | *** join/#wowuidev boshi23 (n=chris@c-75-75-186-99.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 13:05.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 13:08.05 | Bruners | Cide-: what are you compiling? |
| 13:11.07 | Cide- | geos |
| 13:11.24 | Kalroth | oh it wont |
| 13:14.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide- (n=Andre@h238n1-far-gr100.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 13:14.54 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
| 13:16.46 | Cide- | Kalroth, it did compile |
| 13:16.52 | Cide- | now to compile postgis |
| 13:17.21 | Fisker | look at my horse |
| 13:17.30 | Fisker | my horse is amazing |
| 13:18.32 | Kalroth | you're back |
| 13:19.55 | Fisker | shut up Kalroth get on my horse |
| 13:19.56 | Kalroth | it tastes like raisin |
| 13:22.16 | Fisker | hoho |
| 13:22.22 | Fisker | Star Wars: The Force Unleashed |
| 13:22.23 | Fisker | "SWTFU" |
| 13:22.29 | Fisker | Just need to get rid of wars |
| 13:22.30 | Fisker | ;3 |
| 13:22.47 | Fisker | this amuses me greatly |
| 13:24.32 | *** join/#wowuidev boshi23_ (n=boshi23@c-75-75-186-99.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 13:26.57 | Legorol | morning! |
| 13:27.21 | Legorol | I'm looking for an AddOn I saw in a video once, maybe someone knows what it is: it's a rune display mod for DKs. |
| 13:27.34 | Legorol | Its design was a vertical sword, with horizontal sliding bars to its right |
| 13:28.44 | Legorol | As runes became available, they were sliding towards the sword from the right, in 6 horizontal lanes arranged above each other |
| 13:28.48 | Legorol | Does this ring a bell to anyone? |
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| 13:30.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Ose (n=chatzill@wikia/Ose) |
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| 13:32.54 | olafski | without the sword it rings a bell to me ;p |
| 13:38.04 | Cide- | Legorol, this is a channel for addon development, not "can u pzl hlep me fiend adon thenks" |
| 13:38.15 | Legorol | ~lart Cide- |
| 13:38.15 | purl | teaches Cide- that M$ Access is a database. No, really, a database. A real live multi-user... well, ok, not multi-user, but a database. Yeah, that sounds right. |
| 13:38.50 | Cide- | that's funny |
| 13:38.51 | Legorol | olafski: what can you remember if it's without the sword |
| 13:38.57 | Cide- | I'm failing at installing postgresql right now |
| 13:39.05 | Legorol | Cide-: i did my research and trawled wowi's and curse's DK addon sections, but didn't find it |
| 13:39.11 | Cide- | guess I should resort to access |
| 13:39.15 | Legorol | lol |
| 13:41.09 | olafski | legorol: I use an addon called MagicRunes and it can be configured to look the way you said |
| 13:41.09 | olafski | without the sword obviously |
| 13:41.28 | Legorol | yah i saw MagicRunes, I didn't think that's what I'm looking for, but I'll try it out |
| 13:41.31 | Legorol | thanks |
| 13:41.36 | olafski | it has a lot of options :P |
| 13:41.54 | Legorol | Here is a more obvious question (I write addons, not use them, so I'm not very familiar with the popular ones): |
| 13:42.21 | Legorol | What's the addon that tracks ability cooldowns, by having a single horizontal slider where icons representing the abilities slide along. |
| 13:42.35 | Legorol | When they get to the end, they glow or blink or whatever. The scale on the slider is nonlinear. |
| 13:42.50 | Legorol | I see that one in a lot of videos |
| 13:42.55 | *** join/#wowuidev taleden (n=atfrase@user-38q41i6.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 13:42.56 | Legorol | oh, and preemptive: |
| 13:42.59 | Legorol | ~lart Cide- |
| 13:42.59 | purl | decapitates Cide- conan the destroyer style |
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| 13:43.11 | Legorol | that lart sucks |
| 13:43.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Balreign (n=Balreign@ANantes-156-1-68-171.w90-12.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 13:44.02 | mitch0 | legorol: sexycooldowns |
| 13:44.21 | mitch0 | at least, sexycooldowns does that too, afaik |
| 13:44.22 | Legorol | how appropriate |
| 13:44.24 | mitch0 | there might be others |
| 13:44.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamie_^ (i=4df88a8c@gateway/web/freenode/x-171225650b7830aa) |
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| 13:45.25 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 13:45.58 | Legorol | thanks mitch0, i think that's the one |
| 13:46.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 13:46.37 | Jamie_^ | Hello. I'm the guy who was here last night and perplexed over upvalues and closures. I'm just wondering: is there any simple way to your own arg to a function with SetScript WITHOUT creating another function? I mean: f:SetScript("OnEvent", myFunction(frame, event, <myargshere>)) |
| 13:46.58 | Jamie_^ | Pass your own arg* |
| 13:47.36 | Legorol | hi Jamie_^, welcome back :) |
| 13:47.40 | Jamie_^ | Thank you :-) |
| 13:47.57 | Legorol | the answer is, No |
| 13:48.21 | Jamie_^ | I see. Then how would you do it? Just drop the extra function and create it within SetScript? |
| 13:48.25 | Legorol | Blizzard API will call the function you pass on to SetScript with a certain defined, fixed calling pattern |
| 13:48.46 | Legorol | you can't influence what arguments the API passes to your function, and in what order |
| 13:49.12 | Jamie_^ | Alright, well it's good to know that. Is it just me, though, or is that a bit of an oversight? |
| 13:49.12 | Legorol | also, I think you are confusing two things |
| 13:49.16 | Jamie_^ | Oh? |
| 13:49.17 | Legorol | it's not an oversight |
| 13:49.24 | Legorol | I think you are a bit mixed up about how these things work |
| 13:49.29 | Jamie_^ | I most probably am :-). |
| 13:49.47 | Legorol | At the point in the code where you call SetScript, you aren't *calling* your own function |
| 13:49.52 | Jamie_^ | I did do some reading into upvalues and closures, and think I got a very small gist of it, but found it extremely hard to understand, at least as someone who hasn't programmed in C. |
| 13:49.57 | Legorol | You are just telling WoW that "when this event happens, call this function" |
| 13:50.06 | Legorol | Ok let's cover some basic principles: |
| 13:50.20 | Legorol | SetScript's purpose is for you to let WoW know: "please call this function of mine when you get an event" |
| 13:50.25 | Jamie_^ | OK, but ultimately it still calls the function that you tell it to, does it not? |
| 13:50.27 | Legorol | naturally, your function isn't getting balled at this point |
| 13:50.35 | Jamie_^ | sits quiet and listens :-) |
| 13:50.35 | Legorol | it only calls it later on |
| 13:50.40 | Legorol | when an event actually does take place |
| 13:50.53 | Legorol | the arguments it calls your function with are fixed, and are relevant to the event |
| 13:51.11 | Legorol | WoW is calling your function and is passing arguments to it according to a fixed standard |
| 13:51.24 | Jamie_^ | Alright, which in this case are frame & event. |
| 13:51.27 | Legorol | it doesn't really make sense to ask it to call it with other arguments, because it doesn't have that data |
| 13:51.33 | Legorol | you do, your addon does, but WoW doesn't |
| 13:52.00 | Legorol | If I understand correctly *you* want to pass extra information to your function |
| 13:52.07 | Jamie_^ | Yes, that's right. |
| 13:52.10 | Legorol | That is none of WoW's (or the event's) business |
| 13:52.19 | Legorol | that's why you can't influence what arguments it calls your function with |
| 13:52.32 | Legorol | Ok, next point then: |
| 13:52.44 | Legorol | This is going to be an important one, so stop me if you are confused :) |
| 13:52.51 | mitch0 | got a feature request, which I don't really get: "Would it be possible for Bazooka to display a 'bar' inside of it's own 'bar' ? Example: Have a REP/EXP bar inside a Bazooka Bar?" (Bazooka = LDB display) |
| 13:53.08 | Legorol | You want some kind of information to be available to your function *when* it finally gets called, right? |
| 13:53.10 | Jamie_^ | I think I got the gist of the last one, so do go on :-) |
| 13:53.14 | olafski | what's wrong with it mitch0? :s |
| 13:53.20 | Jamie_^ | Yeah, that's right. |
| 13:53.22 | Cide- | he doesn't get recursion |
| 13:53.27 | olafski | they want a rep or xp bar as ldb thing I think :P |
| 13:53.28 | Cide- | (see recursion) |
| 13:53.29 | mitch0 | olafski: I don't get it |
| 13:53.41 | olafski | but perhaps that's not something an LDB display should be handling |
| 13:53.46 | Legorol | So, what's wrong with having that information simply be in a variable that is accessible to all your functions. |
| 13:53.49 | mitch0 | ok. is there an LDB spec for such things? :) |
| 13:53.50 | olafski | more of an LDB plugin thing |
| 13:54.06 | Legorol | What I am saying is: not all information that you can access from a function has to be passed to it as an argument |
| 13:54.47 | Jamie_^ | Yes, understood, though I was concerned about good practice and thought there might be a more elegant approach. Then if you were doing this, you'd create a variable that's accessible to said function? |
| 13:54.48 | Legorol | I can be wrong on this, and it depends on your specific application |
| 13:55.29 | mitch0 | olafski: I guess I could extend the "spec" with min, max and use value if min, max is set and display as a bar, but plugins should pick that up, too... |
| 13:55.35 | Cide- | how is the value computed_ |
| 13:55.36 | Cide- | ? |
| 13:55.42 | Cide- | the value you want to pass in to the function |
| 13:55.46 | Legorol | As far as best practices are concerned, as long as your variable is not global, you are fine |
| 13:55.49 | olafski | yeah mitch0 :< |
| 13:56.01 | Legorol | yes, Cide-'s question is important |
| 13:56.16 | Legorol | when is the value determined? when you call SetScript, or later on |
| 13:56.18 | Jamie_^ | I'm not sure I follow, mind. You mean how am I coming up with the variable? |
| 13:56.28 | Jamie_^ | Err.. I'll have to double check. |
| 13:56.31 | Legorol | no, at what point do you know what value you want to pass |
| 13:56.47 | Jamie_^ | It's before SetScript is called. |
| 13:56.52 | Legorol | ok |
| 13:56.56 | Legorol | but consider this: |
| 13:56.57 | mitch0 | olafski: the only real issue with it would be the style config... |
| 13:57.06 | Legorol | your function doesn't get *called* until an event actually happens, which could be much later on |
| 13:57.24 | Legorol | so there is no real rush to pass it any value at the point you call SetScript |
| 13:57.43 | Legorol | it might be useful to get down to practical examples :) |
| 13:57.50 | Legorol | i know you had pastey's last night, but unfortunately i didn't read them |
| 13:57.53 | Legorol | can you link some? |
| 13:58.06 | Jamie_^ | Sure can! One sec. |
| 13:58.09 | Cide- | if it's already computed at the time of SetScript, do someFrame:SetScript("OnEvent", function(frame, event) myFunction(frame, event, extraArg1, extraArg2) end) |
| 13:58.30 | Jamie_^ | Hmm... the code is quite different now, so I'll just make a new one. |
| 13:58.32 | Legorol | Cide-: that works, and was suggested last night i beleive, along with explanations on upvalues |
| 13:58.41 | Legorol | the downside is the extra closure |
| 13:58.44 | Cide- | but Legorol is a much better teacher so I'll let him do the long version if he so wishes |
| 13:58.48 | Legorol | and bear in mind that the value is still mutable |
| 13:58.52 | Jamie_^ | Cide-: Indeed, it was suggested last night and it's what I was doing, however indeed, there was a downside and it nagged me :) |
| 13:58.57 | Cide- | Legorol, it's much more elegant than the alternatives |
| 13:59.04 | Jamie_^ | Err.. not what I WAS doing, rather what I am now. Anyway, just pasting this up. |
| 13:59.11 | Cide- | and you should be teaching newbies that performance is a secondary or tertiary concern |
| 13:59.18 | Legorol | i agree |
| 13:59.19 | Cide- | because people just don't get that |
| 13:59.23 | Legorol | that's not my main concern atm |
| 13:59.26 | Legorol | my main concern is this: |
| 13:59.42 | Legorol | if you are using an upvalue as opposed to an addon-global variable, you can get scoping issues if you are not experienced with it |
| 13:59.51 | Legorol | that's why i'd like to know the specific application |
| 14:00.04 | Cide- | well, maybe |
| 14:00.08 | Legorol | Jamie_^ might have intended to link his function to an addon global value |
| 14:00.18 | Cide- | the scoping rules aren't really hard |
| 14:00.31 | Legorol | no, but they are quite confusing to beginners (especially upvalues) |
| 14:00.35 | Cide- | "make sure "local variable" is above the point where you use "variable"" |
| 14:00.50 | Legorol | it gets more complicated with upvalues though |
| 14:01.00 | Jamie_^ | http://pastey.net/127506 It's something like that right now. |
| 14:01.27 | Jamie_^ | I've pretty much avoided global variables everywhere so far, other than getting frame names using the global table. |
| 14:01.35 | Legorol | Cide, consider this: local gvar; function SetStuffUp() local lvar; frame:SetScript("OnEvent", function() MyHandler(gvar,lvar) end); end |
| 14:01.42 | Legorol | gvar is then mutable later on, lvar isn't |
| 14:01.57 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (n=chatzill@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 14:02.10 | Legorol | Jamie_^: going to read it now |
| 14:02.44 | Jamie_^ | Be warned: it IS a mess outside of the things we're discussing, but I'll get to that when I get to it :-). |
| 14:03.29 | Jamie_^ | Also cd is a global *slaps forehead*. That's an error. |
| 14:03.59 | Legorol | Jamie_^: ok, I read it, and I think I get the idea, but I'd like to double check a few concepts with you: |
| 14:04.19 | Cide- | Legorol, the fact that it's mutable is rarely an issue |
| 14:04.20 | Jamie_^ | Sure. |
| 14:04.22 | Legorol | so you can have multiple cooldowns running in parallel, and you are using a single function (OnUpdateOpaque) to handle the updating for all of them |
| 14:04.27 | Cide- | if you change it you usually expect it to change |
| 14:04.41 | Jamie_^ | Yeah. |
| 14:04.51 | Cide- | (except when you don't) |
| 14:05.04 | Legorol | Cide-: it depends on whether you want "snapshot" the value at the time you SetScript |
| 14:05.19 | Legorol | using my example, if you use gvar in the call, you might get unexpected behaviour if you later change it |
| 14:06.01 | Legorol | Jamie_^: right, so your aim is to pass the right value for "n" each time OnUpdateOpaque is called, for the different actions |
| 14:06.40 | Jamie_^ | Yeah. |
| 14:06.45 | Legorol | since the single function OnUpdateOpaque has been linked to multiple buttons |
| 14:07.24 | Legorol | Ok, as it happens the way you have written it right now should work, but maybe you are interested in why :) |
| 14:07.31 | *** join/#wowuidev mojosdojo (n=gdbzet26@p4FEFD2E0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:07.59 | Jamie_^ | Hmm... it does actually work as is, indeed, and I think (keyword) I understand why. |
| 14:08.14 | Jamie_^ | Unless you're referring to a particularly arcane oversight or something :-) |
| 14:08.24 | Legorol | and no you can't remove the extra wrap in SetScript around the call to OnUpdateOpaque |
| 14:08.30 | Legorol | (you could, but it would be very complicated) |
| 14:09.17 | Jamie_^ | Ah.. indeed, a local with n's value wouldn't work because it's different for each frame. |
| 14:09.23 | Jamie_^ | (Right?) |
| 14:10.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Aelo (n=chatzill@79-79-186-23.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 14:11.33 | Legorol | depends on where you define that local |
| 14:11.48 | Legorol | i have made a little example I'd like you to look at: |
| 14:11.51 | Jamie_^ | Ahh. |
| 14:11.58 | Legorol | http://pastey.net/127507 |
| 14:12.02 | Jamie_^ | On it, thanks! |
| 14:12.13 | Legorol | before you execute it, have a look, and try and tell me what four numbers will be printed ;) |
| 14:12.45 | Jamie_^ | Alright, give me about 2 hours. :P |
| 14:12.49 | Legorol | haha |
| 14:12.53 | Legorol | i'm sure it won't take that long |
| 14:13.05 | Jamie_^ | Oh, I'm very slow with this stuff. |
| 14:13.15 | Legorol | if you understand how/why this example works, you'll understand why the way you wrote your addon works |
| 14:14.00 | Jamie_^ | Hmmm, OK. |
| 14:14.28 | Legorol | now that i think about it, i should've written the example slightly differently |
| 14:14.33 | Legorol | let me make a small change :) |
| 14:14.53 | Jamie_^ | Fair enough :-). |
| 14:15.14 | Legorol | ok study this one instead: http://pastey.net/127508 |
| 14:15.27 | Legorol | this one might be a bit easier to follow |
| 14:15.40 | Legorol | and i'm inconsistent with my use of semicolons, i know ^^ |
| 14:15.59 | Jamie_^ | Thanks :-). |
| 14:16.09 | Legorol | once you studied the example, ping me and we should discuss it :) |
| 14:16.14 | Legorol | then i'll explain why it's the same as your addon |
| 14:19.08 | Jamie_^ | Before I go any further, just to see if I'm not totally right, does b10(1) (line 16) return 11? |
| 14:19.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (n=chatzill@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 14:19.13 | Jamie_^ | Not totally wrong* |
| 14:19.40 | Legorol | yup |
| 14:19.54 | Legorol | it prints 11 actually, doesn't return it :) but it is 11 |
| 14:20.12 | Jamie_^ | Ah, yeah :-) |
| 14:20.24 | Legorol | the names are a giveaway ;) |
| 14:21.29 | Jamie_^ | So when b10 = Generator(10) is called, b10 is assigned the function within Generator(n) (which is function(offset))... and where am I going with this again... |
| 14:21.50 | Legorol | that's almost entirely correct |
| 14:22.06 | Legorol | Generator creates a new function each time it's called, and returns the newly created function |
| 14:22.09 | Jamie_^ | I don't get how the local base stays a part of the function, mostly. |
| 14:22.16 | Legorol | yup, that's the critical part |
| 14:22.30 | Legorol | that's exactly what we'll discuss :) it's this "upvalue" magic |
| 14:23.04 | Jamie_^ | All right :-). |
| 14:24.40 | Legorol | here is a simpler example of the concept, but it's less analogous to your addon: http://pastey.net/127509 |
| 14:25.18 | Legorol | ping me when you are ready to discuss either example :) |
| 14:29.21 | Jamie_^ | Legorol: I think I get the basic idea, but I'm having a hard time tying the concept together and especially understanding how it compares to the addon. I know there's something there that should be blindingly obvious, but actually pointing out what it is is what's getting me. |
| 14:29.38 | Legorol | it's not supposed to be obvious, upvalues are a hard concept :) |
| 14:29.57 | Legorol | sec i'll be a bit distracted |
| 14:30.07 | Jamie_^ | That's fine :-). Many thanks for taking your time to help me, by the way. |
| 14:30.20 | Legorol | k starting with the simplest example: http://pastey.net/127509 |
| 14:30.37 | Legorol | In this example, each time Generator is called, it creates a new function (technically it creates a closure, but don't worry about that) |
| 14:30.43 | Legorol | and returns that function |
| 14:30.58 | Legorol | the return value then gets put in various variables, b10 and b100 |
| 14:31.05 | Legorol | the key point is the one you touched on yourself: |
| 14:31.17 | Legorol | the local variable "base" only seems to exist inside Generator.. |
| 14:31.33 | Legorol | so when you exit Generator, it should cease to exist, so... how is it getting used inside the function that was generated? |
| 14:32.18 | Legorol | the answer is that when Lua detects that you have used a local variable like "base" in a way that you should be able to have access to it in the future too, it actually makes a permanent version of it |
| 14:32.26 | Legorol | this is more or less what an "upvalue" is |
| 14:32.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide- (n=Andre@h238n1-far-gr100.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 14:32.48 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
| 14:33.02 | Legorol | so what happens in this simple example is each time you call Generator, a new variable named "base" is created, and each copy of this variable is permanently retained |
| 14:33.18 | Legorol | each function that Generator creates has access to its own copy of "base", can increment it, print it etc |
| 14:33.47 | Legorol | that's why, later on when b10 and b100 gets called, you still get sensible numbers... they each have their own copy of "base" they are accessing |
| 14:33.54 | Legorol | this is a very important and powerful concept |
| 14:33.55 | Jamie_^ | So... it's the fact that a function is created which includes this variable which creates the permanent copy? |
| 14:34.00 | Legorol | that's right |
| 14:34.35 | Legorol | so "base" doesn't really cease to exist when you exit Generator |
| 14:35.14 | Legorol | and i take it you understand that there are actually two variables that get permanently created, both of them are called "base" in the respective functions |
| 14:35.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Ackis (n=Ackis@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ARL/Troll/Ackis) |
| 14:35.37 | Jamie_^ | Yes, indeed. However, I still don't quite understand how it ties to the addon. Well, not exactly. |
| 14:35.48 | Legorol | i will get to that :0 |
| 14:35.51 | Jamie_^ | OK, sorry! |
| 14:35.52 | Legorol | i want to take it step by step |
| 14:35.56 | Legorol | the next example: http://pastey.net/127508-2659 |
| 14:36.03 | Legorol | this uses the same concept, just a little more complicated |
| 14:36.14 | *** join/#wowuidev soufron (n=soufron@did75-14-82-236-19-233.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 14:36.26 | Legorol | in this example, again, there is a "base" that is created and permanently linked to each function that Generator creates |
| 14:36.41 | Legorol | but in addition there is also "offset", which is just a completely standard function argument |
| 14:37.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaelten (n=Kaelten@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/WoWIFA/CurseStaff/kaelten) |
| 14:37.43 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Kaelten] by ChanServ |
| 14:38.09 | Jamie_^ | So they both have a variable (upvalue?) tied to them, just that the last one also takes a new argument and adds it to the old one. |
| 14:38.16 | Legorol | yes |
| 14:38.22 | Legorol | each created function has an upvalue named base |
| 14:38.27 | Legorol | and each also takes an argument named offset |
| 14:38.44 | Jamie_^ | Alright, got it. |
| 14:38.45 | Legorol | "base" can only be accessed from inside the created function, once you exit Generator |
| 14:39.02 | Legorol | right, now for the final twist :) and this will tie it to your addon |
| 14:39.08 | Legorol | http://pastey.net/127507-1j2e |
| 14:40.31 | Legorol | this last example is entirely identical in behaviour and concepts than the last one |
| 14:40.35 | Jamie_^ | The difference there is that it just uses the argument to Generator directly in the new function, rather than creating a local to store it beforehand? |
| 14:40.48 | Legorol | that's right! |
| 14:40.53 | Jamie_^ | \o/ |
| 14:40.54 | Legorol | and it can do that because of an additional trick in Lua: |
| 14:41.10 | Legorol | a function argument behaves exactly like a local variable inside that function |
| 14:41.25 | Legorol | so it doesn't matter if "base" is explicitly declared as a local variable, or if it's just an argument |
| 14:41.54 | Jamie_^ | I see. This is beginning to get surprisingly clear :-). |
| 14:43.39 | Legorol | so, putting the pieces together: |
| 14:44.09 | Legorol | 1) base, when passed as an argument, behaves as if it was created as a local variable |
| 14:44.29 | Legorol | 2) base, since it is used in a function that is created inside the scope where it appears, becomes a permanent thing |
| 14:44.56 | Legorol | 3) each created function gets their own copy of base |
| 14:45.18 | Legorol | so now to tie it to your addon: |
| 14:45.42 | Legorol | the function Stealth is identical to Generator |
| 14:45.53 | Legorol | the argument "n" is identical to "base" |
| 14:46.09 | Legorol | in the SetScript line in Stealth, you create new functions, and you refer to "n" inside it |
| 14:46.12 | Legorol | so "n" is an upvalue |
| 14:46.40 | Legorol | the only difference is that when the created functions get called, instead of incrementing or printing the value of "n", it passes it on to your OnUpdateOpaque |
| 14:46.46 | Legorol | brb, fight |
| 14:47.38 | Ginji | Woo! Borderlands! |
| 14:47.56 | Pneumatus | been playing it all day, and loving it a lot :) |
| 14:48.47 | Jamie_^ | Hmm... and other than that, there *is* the difference that I cannot add an argument to the "outer" function, isn't there? Which is why I'm doing it this way in the first place. Or did I miss something again? |
| 14:50.13 | jadakren | i thnk you can still pass extra arguments |
| 14:50.39 | jadakren | frame, event are the two expected arguments, after that you can have more i think |
| 14:51.14 | Cide- | except wow is calling the function on an event, not you |
| 14:51.20 | jadakren | yes |
| 14:51.20 | Cide- | so you have no control over what arguments are passed |
| 14:51.21 | *** join/#wowuidev svenadh (n=sven@L0.moenchengladbach01.fdknet.de) |
| 14:56.02 | Legorol | back |
| 14:56.22 | Legorol | exactly what Cide said |
| 14:56.35 | Legorol | since you are not the one calling the function, but WoW is, you have no choice over the way arguments are passed to it |
| 14:56.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Odlaw (n=ozzy@c-98-245-3-204.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 14:57.41 | Jamie_^ | I think I just got it! Fully. The bit about n being an upvalue finally just clicked. |
| 14:57.53 | Jamie_^ | Whee. Well, thank you very, very much, Legorol. |
| 14:59.16 | Jamie_^ | Oh, I do have one more question of a much more basic variety. When using the select() function, does the output have to be assigned to a variable to be used? I tried using it without assigning it to a variable to no avail, but maybe the issue was elsewhere. |
| 14:59.55 | Legorol | Jamie_^: here is a parting example for you :) http://pastey.net/127510 |
| 15:00.03 | Legorol | (on the last issue) |
| 15:00.12 | Legorol | FixedCaller is what WoW is doing |
| 15:01.10 | Legorol | As for select(), no you don't need to assign it to a variable, although it's often done. |
| 15:01.22 | Legorol | It's an ordinary function like any other, so you can use it in an expression just fine |
| 15:01.31 | Legorol | for example: a = select(3, ...) + 5 |
| 15:01.33 | Legorol | that should work |
| 15:03.19 | Legorol | Jamie_^, I'm glad it clicked, upvalues are a tricky but powerful concept :) |
| 15:03.27 | Jamie_^ | Alright, thanks for the select() explanation. Might have got something else wrong at the time. In regard to the FixedCaller example, I think I get it. Am I right to assmue that b10 is equivalent to SetScript(), only with the difference that SetScript() takes different arguments? |
| 15:04.07 | Jamie_^ | Yeah, I also had a flick through pil (the RIGHT page this time, not the one near the end that's in gibberish) which really made me want to use closures. That said, I doubt I'll find a reasonable use for them in any other way right now, or at least one I could think up. |
| 15:04.41 | Ackis | coughs on the channel giving everyone H1N1 and giving Fisker aids. |
| 15:04.49 | Jamie_^ | Thanks, Ackis. |
| 15:05.25 | Jamie_^ | So SetScript()'s siganture would just be more like SetScript(aString, aFunction)? |
| 15:05.29 | Jamie_^ | Signature* |
| 15:05.30 | olafski | thank you ackis |
| 15:05.45 | olafski | you didn't have to go and hilight everyone though :( |
| 15:06.01 | Ackis | I didn't highlight everyone did I? |
| 15:06.07 | olafski | no you hilighted 'anyone' :) |
| 15:06.23 | olafski | I assume that includes me so I have a hilight set to everyone, anyone, everybody etc ;-)) |
| 15:06.51 | Jamie_^ | And.... function SetScript(s, f) f(frame, event) end or something along those lines /ponder. |
| 15:07.21 | Jamie_^ | rambles along. |
| 15:07.31 | Ackis | lol olafski |
| 15:07.32 | Jamie_^ | I think I'll be afk for a while with that :-). Thanks again, especially for the H1N1. |
| 15:07.54 | olafski | I already had it though |
| 15:07.58 | olafski | got something I don't have yet? |
| 15:09.28 | Kraps | http://video.msn.com/?mkt=en-us&playlist=videoByTag:tag:theguild_season2_1:ns:Xbox_Channel_Gallery:mk:us:vs:1&tab=m1227544861972 |
| 15:09.48 | olafski | +) |
| 15:09.50 | olafski | that's fun |
| 15:09.57 | olafski | I especially like that will wheaton is in there |
| 15:10.18 | Ackis | the guild sucks |
| 15:10.34 | olafski | it's like he used to play a douche in an old tv show so now he appears as an ass on new tv shows :D |
| 15:10.39 | olafski | ackis: your guild sucks :( |
| 15:10.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (n=callahan@74-132-200-5.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 15:11.10 | Ackis | no |
| 15:11.13 | Ackis | Torhal sucks |
| 15:11.17 | Legorol | Jamie_^: that's right, SetScript's signature is SetScript(string, function) |
| 15:11.24 | Legorol | and its internals are not unlike FixedCaller |
| 15:11.35 | Legorol | it calls the function you passed to it with a fixed signature |
| 15:11.56 | Legorol | (well, more correctly, when an event triggers, WoW calls it, it doesn't get called from within SetScript) |
| 15:12.45 | Legorol | so you call SetScript to tell WoW *which* function you want called, which could be a function you create just when you call SetScript |
| 15:12.53 | Legorol | the common way to use SetScript is either: |
| 15:13.03 | Legorol | 1) frame:SetScript("OnEvent", myHandler) |
| 15:13.04 | Legorol | or |
| 15:13.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (n=elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 15:13.24 | Legorol | 2) frame:SetScript("OnEvent", function(frame, event, etc.) .. code code .. end) |
| 15:13.30 | Legorol | this 2nd example is equivalent to: |
| 15:13.42 | Legorol | local f = function(frame, event, etc.) .. code .. end; |
| 15:13.48 | Legorol | frame:SetScript("OnEvent", f) |
| 15:13.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Ancu (n=c@ppp25.pm3-15.man-ch.nh.localnet.com) |
| 15:14.21 | Ancu | Good morning |
| 15:16.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Tepel (n=tepel@cc624207-a.gorre1.fr.home.nl) |
| 15:17.24 | Ginji | I just remembered |
| 15:17.35 | Ginji | I don't have a DVD drive in this computer |
| 15:17.56 | Ginji | I hope Borderlands doesn't have some silly security in place to stop me from using an image |
| 15:21.21 | Ackis | DRAGON AGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 15:21.33 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (n=chatzill@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 15:22.04 | Aelo | urgh my computer's dying from xferring my music collection from one drive to another <_> |
| 15:22.08 | Aelo | can hardly do anything |
| 15:22.29 | Lopeppeppy | Then go take a shower or a walk while it's processing. |
| 15:22.49 | Aelo | isn't those dangerous? :S |
| 15:22.52 | Aelo | *aren't |
| 15:23.06 | olafski | don't take your computer into the shower |
| 15:23.40 | Aelo | does that advice come from personal experience? :P |
| 15:24.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkkuu (n=Vilkku@dsl-tkubrasgw1-ffc7c100-46.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 15:24.44 | jadakren | lol at windows file transfer |
| 15:24.50 | jadakren | get areal OS |
| 15:25.01 | jadakren | inb4 flames |
| 15:25.53 | nevcairiel | Locking up my desktop with hdd activity only happend on linux for me, fwiw :P |
| 15:26.07 | olafski | never happened to me |
| 15:26.22 | nevcairiel | the i/o schedulers need some more love |
| 15:26.24 | olafski | it'd have to have pretty high priority before it actually locks up oO |
| 15:27.13 | nevcairiel | well it didnt "lock up", but starting new apps took ages |
| 15:27.18 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (n=p3lim@85.108.34.95.customer.cdi.no) |
| 15:27.38 | nevcairiel | the copying process wiped all my apps from cache/buffers and replaced it with data that was being copied |
| 15:27.40 | nevcairiel | kinda fail :P |
| 15:27.51 | olafski | hmyeah.. moving stuff or even extracting doesn't fully break stuff |
| 15:27.55 | olafski | it does reduce my wow fps though ;) |
| 15:28.43 | nevcairiel | there are endless threads on the lkml about those issues |
| 15:28.51 | nevcairiel | its getting better in newer kernels, but its not perfect |
| 15:29.11 | jadakren | i never had those problems playing wow on linux while transferring gigs of isos around my network |
| 15:30.07 | jadakren | nautilus always remained snapily responsive as ever... win explorer however likes to become un repsonsive when all its doing is copying a 600mb file |
| 15:30.28 | nevcairiel | try unpacking a very big archive on the same drive, so read/write combined |
| 15:30.35 | jadakren | hey i just turned my computer on and tried moving a file in windows explorer...now it wont let me do anything |
| 15:30.39 | olafski | people who have problems with windows are using it wrong, "inb4 flames" |
| 15:30.39 | nevcairiel | if your system is on the same hdd, it slows down alot |
| 15:31.35 | nevcairiel | some scheduler tweaks can minimize the issues, maybe some distros ship those by default |
| 15:31.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Tepel (n=tepel@cc624207-a.gorre1.fr.home.nl) |
| 15:31.56 | nevcairiel | but that dont resolve the issues in the schedulers :) |
| 15:33.33 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 15:33.33 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 15:34.44 | *** join/#wowuidev zeheres (n=crs@dslb-084-061-058-115.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:37.36 | Aelo | annoying thing is, once i reformated the source drive, i'll be copying it all back again <_> |
| 15:40.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (n=caleb@dsl4E5C05D2.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 15:54.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan@c-76-107-191-65.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 15:54.45 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 15:58.52 | *** part/#wowuidev jadakren (n=airtonix@ppp118-210-158-66.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net) |
| 15:59.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan@c-76-107-191-65.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 15:59.03 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 15:59.39 | Ackis | is BANNINATOR ACKIS |
| 16:00.13 | Ackis | 6 users banned! muhahhahaha |
| 16:04.08 | *** join/#wowuidev mascondante (i=kvirc@99-196-36-186.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 16:04.13 | Fisker | kisses Ackis |
| 16:04.25 | Ackis | sexy |
| 16:05.01 | Trela_ | dips Fisker over, softly pressing their lips together all the while rubbing his butt. |
| 16:05.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Athrun-- (n=drag@mlr78-3-88-162-68-235.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:06.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Corrodias (i=no@adsl-75-17-195-16.dsl.euclwi.sbcglobal.net) |
| 16:06.18 | Ackis | wow that kinda turned me on tbh |
| 16:06.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Kivnel (n=lenvik@23.213.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 16:06.41 | Trela_ | That was the short and sweet version. :P |
| 16:07.06 | Fisker | my feet are cold |
| 16:07.24 | Ackis | a/s/l Trela_ ? :P |
| 16:07.30 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR (n=doingwha@unaffiliated/dwsr) |
| 16:07.33 | Trela_ | No. :P |
| 16:07.49 | Trela_ | l = variable right now. |
| 16:08.52 | Ackis | good thing you didn't say s was variable |
| 16:09.49 | Trela_ | That too. :P |
| 16:11.12 | *** join/#wowuidev kdtresh|work (n=kdtresh|@76.212.99.109) |
| 16:12.56 | Fisker | you ever seen a grown man naked? |
| 16:14.15 | kdtresh|work | have you ever been in a turkish prison? |
| 16:14.46 | cog|work | throws a bucket of trout water on Fisker |
| 16:15.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide| (n=Cide@h238n1-far-gr100.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 16:15.50 | Fisker | slaps cog|work around a bit with a large trout |
| 16:17.46 | *** part/#wowuidev neOliv (n=oliv@htr06-1-82-227-228-20.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:20.56 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR (n=doingwha@24.114.252.240) |
| 16:23.07 | Ackis | Fisker: www.raptr.com/Ackis |
| 16:27.28 | Fisker | no |
| 16:27.53 | cog|work | retroactively flunks Fisker from third grade, invalidating all his subsequent education |
| 16:28.38 | Fisker | we can't flunk third grade cog|work |
| 16:29.33 | nevcairiel | they made an exception for you |
| 16:29.34 | Lopeppeppy | Yes, yes you can. |
| 16:29.41 | Lopeppeppy | They will fail kindergardeners |
| 16:30.07 | Fisker | goes back in time killing cog|work's parents |
| 16:30.09 | Fisker | there |
| 16:30.11 | Fisker | fixed forever |
| 16:30.22 | Seerah | Ackis: new user to ban. just reported it |
| 16:31.09 | Torhal | ? |
| 16:31.33 | Kraps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLYD_-A_X5E&feature=fvw |
| 16:31.47 | Lopeppeppy | Mmm, ban stick! |
| 16:32.18 | cog|work | Fisker: but if my parents were dead and didn't have me, how would you have known to go back in time and kill them??!?!?! |
| 16:32.19 | zenzelezz | you like those sticks? |
| 16:32.35 | cog|work | oh and for the morning crowd: http://blog.cogwheel.info/2009/11/doing-wave.html |
| 16:32.42 | Lopeppeppy | I love them, zenzelezz |
| 16:33.04 | zenzelezz | :-o |
| 16:33.13 | robotusch | Fusker, log lige ind, skal låne dig :3 |
| 16:33.18 | cog|work | anyone else doing the line ride at Verizon store this Friday? |
| 16:33.28 | cog|work | Told my sister to find another ride to school :> |
| 16:34.07 | Fisker | hej robotusch |
| 16:42.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Aelo (n=chatzill@79-79-186-23.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 16:42.24 | Seerah | cog|work: what's this friday? |
| 16:43.25 | cog|work | everything the iphone doesn't. |
| 16:43.27 | cog|work | =D |
| 16:43.45 | zenzelezz | I think he means there's some Android phone being released? |
| 16:44.11 | cog|work | motorola Droid |
| 16:44.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Iodine (n=lenvik@23.213.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 16:45.00 | nevcairiel | I'm still looking for a good droid phone, have my eyes on the Acer Liquid right now .. maybe i should check the motorola too |
| 16:45.02 | cog|work | first phone with android 2.0 |
| 16:45.13 | zenzelezz | having developed applications for the iPhone for about a year, I must admit I like the platform; but I prefer Android phones... |
| 16:45.15 | cog|work | and it's the first decent, non-blackberry smartphone for verizon |
| 16:45.24 | Trela_ | I believe my AT&T contract is up. |
| 16:45.37 | zenzelezz | using my Google G1 dev phone still, wondering which phone I'll replace it with. Will have to be another full-keyboard Android |
| 16:45.39 | Fisker | slaps cog|work around a bit with a large trout |
| 16:45.39 | nevcairiel | cog|work: that was with a HW keyboard, wasnt it? |
| 16:45.53 | Ancu | ~seen ackis |
| 16:45.54 | purl | ackis is currently on #waruidev (2h 10m 19s) #wowhead (2h 10m 19s) #norganna (2h 10m 19s) #wowuidev (2h 10m 19s) #arl (2h 10m 19s) #wowace (2h 10m 19s) #curseforge (2h 10m 19s) #wowwiki (2h 10m 19s). Has said a total of 12 messages. Is idling for 22m 47s, last said: 'Fisker: www.raptr.com/Ackis'. |
| 16:46.03 | cog|work | nevcairiel: yep |
| 16:46.13 | Ancu | Hey ackis |
| 16:46.15 | Ackis | sup? |
| 16:46.47 | Ancu | When cata releases, are you going to remove the old recipies from Ackis Recipie list? |
| 16:47.09 | nevcairiel | hm 10 days longer for EU release |
| 16:47.13 | nevcairiel | tiem for me to check it out |
| 16:47.37 | zenzelezz | nevcairiel: the Motorola Droid is being released in Europe too already? |
| 16:47.43 | Ackis | Ancu: no they'll be marked as no longer availible assuming you can't get them anymore, I doubt all of them will be unobtainble though |
| 16:47.43 | nevcairiel | nov 16th |
| 16:47.48 | nevcairiel | according to a local provider |
| 16:48.00 | Seerah | cog|work: is the enV Touch not so hot? Or doesn't come close in features? |
| 16:48.03 | zenzelezz | interesting |
| 16:48.20 | Ancu | Ackis: Okay, I was just wondering. Thankyou. |
| 16:48.32 | Seerah | tackles Shirik |
| 16:49.05 | Ackis | Ancu: the only recipes "removed" from the game so far were the naxx 40 man variants of frost resistance, however if you had learnt them you still kept them. |
| 16:49.17 | Shirik | is this sad? Look at this page: http://www.insitu.com/ Click on the third image on the flash control ("Network-Centric Solutions") |
| 16:49.30 | Shirik | I can look at the UI on the middle monitor and I know exactly where that was taken |
| 16:49.42 | nevcairiel | mm the motorola droid comes with a rather "slow" cpu compared to the Acer |
| 16:49.43 | Shirik | without even needing to see a closer picture or anything |
| 16:49.49 | Shirik | I recognize the no-fly zones and all >.> |
| 16:49.54 | nevcairiel | i wish they would've used the snapdragon cpu |
| 16:50.04 | cog|work | Seerah: tbh i couldn't say... I don't really follow these things much, but just happened to catch the droid teaser ad a week or two ago |
| 16:50.10 | zenzelezz | AFAIK, Motorola has several Android phones in the works |
| 16:50.59 | nevcairiel | also i'm still unsure if i want a HW-kb phone |
| 16:51.04 | cog|work | Seerah: http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/10/23/motorola-droid-preview/ |
| 16:52.04 | Seerah | it's definitely pretty. hmm... I like having my numbers in a separate row though, on the qwerty keyboard |
| 16:52.39 | Ancu | Ackis: Yeah, but they never whiped out half the game before either. I wonder if they will get rid of dark iron. I hope not because I hope to get that recipie at some point |
| 16:52.50 | cog|work | i don't think you're going to find many phones fitting that description ;) |
| 16:52.53 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: too bad it won't have the google turn-by-turn GPS. ;X |
| 16:53.03 | Seerah | cog|work: the enV's do ;) |
| 16:53.13 | Seerah | but they flip open instead of slide |
| 16:53.17 | nevcairiel | Gnarfoz: the acer? |
| 16:53.22 | cog|work | ah |
| 16:53.23 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: no, Droid |
| 16:54.17 | nevcairiel | according to google nearly every android phone will get it |
| 16:54.18 | cog|work | it's also a bit of a hacker phone since android allows open app development |
| 16:54.20 | nevcairiel | once you have 2.0 |
| 16:54.51 | Gnarfoz | well, they said it'll come with some custom motorola thingy instead, it got a nice red wave on heise mobile :D |
| 16:55.00 | cog|work | heh... that enV is like a nintendo DS on steroids |
| 16:55.16 | *** join/#wowuidev neOliv (n=oliv@htr06-1-82-227-228-20.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:57.23 | cog|work | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGXK4jKN_jY |
| 16:57.28 | Seerah | I have an enV2. of course, the enV3 came out a couple weeks after I got my phone ><. But I'm due for an upgrade in April |
| 16:57.35 | Fisker | no! |
| 16:57.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Ancu (n=c@ppp25.pm3-15.man-ch.nh.localnet.com) |
| 16:58.08 | Ancu | Damn dialup |
| 16:58.13 | nevcairiel | the enV really looks like a DS on steroids |
| 16:58.25 | Ancu | ~seen ZorbaGama |
| 16:58.26 | purl | zorbagama is currently on #wowuidev (2d 11h 4m 59s) #curseforge (2d 11h 4m 59s). Has said a total of 117 messages. Is idling for 11h 48m 57s, last said: 'hmm, odd that it's release-only.'. |
| 16:58.26 | *** join/#wowuidev ArrowmasterClass (n=arrow@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ResponsibleForEverythingAndNothing/Arrowmaster) |
| 16:58.26 | cog|work | ~comfort Ancu |
| 16:58.27 | purl | There, there, Ancu. It's OK. I'm here for you. |
| 16:58.57 | Ancu | Are you on zorba? |
| 16:59.29 | Ancu | ~help |
| 16:59.46 | ZorbaGama | yup, whazup? |
| 17:00.22 | Ancu | Next patch they are going to put in a compleated quest query. Will QH be taking advantage of this? |
| 17:00.38 | ZorbaGama | hopefully, yep, though to a limited extent |
| 17:00.50 | Ancu | How limeted? |
| 17:01.06 | ZorbaGama | I'll be (hopefully) providing a feature to show the questgiver locations for any quests you're missing in the zone, as well as doing some behind-the-scenes data collection work that takes advantage of it |
| 17:01.11 | ZorbaGama | that'll be about it for the time being |
| 17:02.25 | Ancu | Sweet. How long after the patch release do you think it will be added as a feature? Not trying to rush, just curious. |
| 17:02.37 | ZorbaGama | I'm hoping to have it finished before release |
| 17:02.48 | Ancu | Sweet |
| 17:02.51 | Ancu | Okay, thankyou |
| 17:02.55 | ZorbaGama | no prob |
| 17:03.01 | Kraps | http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0812696735/downandoutint-20 |
| 17:03.10 | zenzelezz | for some people, the release is the finish |
| 17:04.15 | Fisker | slaps zenzelezz around a bit with a large trout |
| 17:04.29 | ZorbaGama | I feel that just shows a lack of imagination. |
| 17:09.08 | Ackis | Fisker: http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs009.snc3/11635_169701486685_512851685_2997124_1006285_n.jpg |
| 17:11.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Kowski (n=ykow@dhcp-v002-241.mobile.uci.edu) |
| 17:11.41 | Fisker | you ordered a thousand liters of milk Ackis |
| 17:12.17 | zenzelezz | throws kamelåså at Fisker |
| 17:12.18 | Ackis | don't you mean litre's ? :P |
| 17:13.09 | Thunder_Child | heh "If you're drunk when the package shows up, you will not be allowed to receive it" |
| 17:13.23 | zenzelezz | what package is this? |
| 17:13.27 | Thunder_Child | wine |
| 17:13.57 | zenzelezz | pfft, what do they think you're going to do with it anyhow? Drink responsibly? |
| 17:14.17 | Thunder_Child | some people do |
| 17:14.28 | zenzelezz | yeah, freaks |
| 17:15.16 | *** join/#wowuidev isman (n=drag@mlr78-3-88-162-68-235.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:17.29 | Vilkkuu | #wowuidev poll time! What AddOn do you use to keep track of trinket cooldowns and procs? |
| 17:17.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (n=Srosh@d019233.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 17:17.34 | ArrowmasterClass | Ackis: cant keep the car on the road not the shoulder or something? |
| 17:18.15 | Ackis | ArrowmasterClass: there's a reason the angle is taken that way :P the front of the car is all smashed up lol |
| 17:18.20 | Ancu | omnicc |
| 17:18.22 | Thunder_Child | Vilkkuu, nothing for trinkets and parrot for procs |
| 17:18.54 | zenzelezz | none, and none |
| 17:19.20 | Vilkkuu | right |
| 17:19.26 | Vilkkuu | I might try without timers |
| 17:20.31 | ArrowmasterClass | lol what the fuck, xbox live gold member deal of the week is a CoD4 map pack, one week before MW2 comes out....... |
| 17:20.44 | Vilkkuu | I've been using CooldownWatch (no longer in development, works atm, but bracing for impact... awesome, does what I want) and ClassTimer (ok mod, but lacks some options I'd like), and I've just grown used to seeing my short self-buffs as bars... |
| 17:20.57 | Vilkkuu | suppose it won't hurt to try without, will at least save me UI space |
| 17:24.30 | *** join/#wowuidev krka (n=krka@c-177ae155.159-1-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 17:24.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 17:27.31 | AbsolutRayne | Mmmmmm Egss and Bacon |
| 17:27.39 | AbsolutRayne | and an english muffin to boot! |
| 17:27.55 | Thunder_Child | it's bacon and eggs, get it right! |
| 17:27.56 | Fisker | btw cog|work |
| 17:28.06 | Fisker | google maps will be useless if it doesn't have local data |
| 17:28.06 | Fisker | ;3 |
| 17:28.12 | Fisker | or fucking expensive :( |
| 17:29.23 | AbsolutRayne | Hmmm, Civ4 or D2 |
| 17:29.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide- (n=Andre@h238n1-far-gr100.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 17:29.53 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
| 17:30.45 | Thunder_Child | AbsolutRayne, have you finished D2? |
| 17:30.53 | AbsolutRayne | Many times |
| 17:31.03 | Thunder_Child | then at this point torchlight > D2 |
| 17:31.10 | nevcairiel | can you really "finish" D2? |
| 17:31.10 | Kraps | im sitting at my computer covered in a blanket :( |
| 17:31.26 | Fisker | Torchlight sucks though |
| 17:31.31 | Thunder_Child | nevcairiel, yes |
| 17:31.55 | nevcairiel | when are you done? |
| 17:32.13 | nevcairiel | all classes 99 on HC in ladders? |
| 17:32.33 | Stanzilla | +best items on them |
| 17:33.02 | Shirik | what is the state abbreviation for nevada, NV? |
| 17:33.04 | AbsolutRayne | Actually, the only thing I want atm is this damn Water Pump to be fixed. |
| 17:34.41 | Seerah | Shirik: yes |
| 17:34.56 | Shirik | I can't fit all of my research papers on my resume... |
| 17:35.09 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (n=nevin@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 17:35.09 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 17:35.30 | Shirik | I think I got it |
| 17:35.31 | Shirik | barely |
| 17:35.31 | Seerah | Are you trying to do a one-page resume? Not a portfolio? |
| 17:35.35 | Shirik | yes one-page |
| 17:35.48 | Shirik | it isn't going to fit next year |
| 17:35.55 | Shirik | I'm going to have 4 papers done before I leave college >< |
| 17:36.48 | Fisker | slaps Shirik around a bit with a large trout |
| 17:36.55 | Seerah | You can make a separate page of your "research history" and submit it on request. Only keep the latest and/or most important on the resume itself |
| 17:39.00 | Shirik | I got it anyway, I think it sets me apart from others |
| 17:39.28 | Seerah | hehe :) Just as long as your resume doesn't look like a giant-wall-o-text that makes them go tl;dr ;) |
| 17:40.50 | Seerah | should be like a highlight reel that makes them want to know more about you. |
| 17:49.44 | Thunder_Child | or just send a fist full of hundreds with your resume, that works as well |
| 17:50.12 | Thunder_Child | fistfull* |
| 17:50.14 | Thunder_Child | -l |
| 17:53.51 | Shirik | it's not Seerah|away :P |
| 17:53.58 | Lopeppeppy | Is too! |
| 17:54.02 | Lopeppeppy | *innocent* |
| 17:55.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Athrun-- (n=drag@mlr78-3-88-162-68-235.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:56.27 | Lopeppeppy | Best tweet today, "The plural of "Pokemon" is "vermin." " |
| 17:56.37 | ArrowmasterClass | hmm looks like another xbox dashboard update killed a lot of consoles, maybe ill try again to get them to fix my out of warrenty 360 for free since its happened two months in a row they might admit something is wrong with their updates |
| 17:57.25 | Lopeppeppy | Hah. Keep dreaming |
| 17:57.53 | ArrowmasterClass | somebody on the xbox forums said they talked to a supervisor and got them to repair theirs for free |
| 17:58.11 | zenzelezz | I wish someone would repair our supervisor |
| 17:58.37 | alestane | Is he out of warranty, too? |
| 17:58.41 | Lopeppeppy | Good luck to you both on the repairs, Arrow and zenzelezz. |
| 17:58.53 | zenzelezz | alestane: not just out of warranty, he's obsolete |
| 17:58.54 | ArrowmasterClass | i just want my old 360 working so i can let my parrents use it to watch tv/movies ive downloaded |
| 17:59.06 | alestane | zenzelezz: Good comeback. |
| 18:02.02 | cog|work | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXqHfHN9dJs |
| 18:05.59 | Fisker | cog|workmen |
| 18:06.11 | Fisker | you are the cancer...thats...killing me |
| 18:06.43 | Ackis | ~cog|work++ |
| 18:06.51 | Ackis | anyone who helps kill fisker gets karma |
| 18:07.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (n=Kaso@host217-42-54-42.range217-42.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:07.38 | Thunder_Child | Ackis, cance is usually a rather long term killing solution |
| 18:07.58 | Thunder_Child | if that works than everyone should get karma for polution ans whatnot |
| 18:10.52 | Industrial | I need a good free webcam website, with a fash client or something |
| 18:11.00 | Industrial | for webcam + chat :p |
| 18:11.11 | Industrial | preferrably no registration -_- |
| 18:11.36 | Ackis | and a box of tissues? |
| 18:11.44 | NightHawkTheSane | ~Ackis++ |
| 18:11.58 | Industrial | awesomepossum Ackis |
| 18:12.12 | Lopeppeppy | more like paper towels, industrial strength, no pun intended. |
| 18:12.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (n=chatzill@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 18:13.14 | Fisker | slaps Industrial around a bit with a large trout |
| 18:13.23 | Fisker | Industrial killed me with polution |
| 18:13.26 | zenzelezz | whenever anyone says "no pun intended", you know they intended a pun |
| 18:13.42 | Fisker | ^^ |
| 18:13.44 | *** join/#wowuidev mitchnull (n=mitchnul@catv3EC944A1.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 18:13.44 | Lopeppeppy | I did not. I only deliberately pun when alestane forces me to. |
| 18:13.54 | Fisker | They just thought you were too stupid to get it |
| 18:14.32 | alestane | Come again? |
| 18:14.51 | Lopeppeppy | .... *snark* |
| 18:14.52 | Lopeppeppy | Sure. |
| 18:15.14 | NightHawkTheSane | heh |
| 18:15.24 | Lopeppeppy | See? All his fault! |
| 18:15.25 | cog|work | W. T. F. O.o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0c5yClip4o |
| 18:15.58 | Industrial | sooo, no sites? |
| 18:17.15 | alestane | Lopeppeppy: You know you wanted to. |
| 18:18.14 | ArrowmasterClass | why the hell does this computer have shockwave but not flash |
| 18:21.08 | Lopeppeppy | I always do. *purr* |
| 18:21.31 | zenzelezz | and yet you keep turning me down :( |
| 18:24.36 | alestane | "No...just more outlet!" |
| 18:25.06 | ArrowmasterClass | ....... |
| 18:25.10 | ArrowmasterClass | fucking idiots |
| 18:25.20 | Fisker | infawhat? |
| 18:25.23 | ArrowmasterClass | i cant even view the schools online course schudule |
| 18:25.32 | Fisker | owned Arrowmaster |
| 18:25.34 | ArrowmasterClass | because the schools computer doesnt have flash |
| 18:26.20 | Fisker | oh u cog|work |
| 18:26.31 | Fisker | she needs therapy |
| 18:29.48 | *** join/#wowuidev lecuyep (n=lecuyep@modemcable116.48-81-70.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 18:29.57 | Thunder_Child | so do you Fisker, so do you |
| 18:30.59 | Fisker | i do not |
| 18:31.21 | *** part/#wowuidev lecuyep (n=lecuyep@modemcable116.48-81-70.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 18:31.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Ellira (n=lecuyep@modemcable116.48-81-70.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 18:32.02 | *** part/#wowuidev Ellira (n=lecuyep@modemcable116.48-81-70.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 18:32.10 | Legorol | cog|work: omg, that video scarred me for life |
| 18:34.09 | cog|work | Legorol: I was raised in an area of Marin county where, best estimate, at least 70% of the people would be right on the same page with her |
| 18:34.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Stew_a (n=Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 18:34.26 | *** join/#wowuidev dear_light (n=chatzill@cpe-66-25-173-204.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 18:34.47 | dear_light | is there a good way to test for drunkeness on login since you cant find the error message |
| 18:34.53 | Legorol | my favourite part: E = m c^2, m is so small we can cross it out, so E = c, therefore vision means energy |
| 18:34.59 | Legorol | repeatedly performs headdesk |
| 18:35.15 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (i=smcn@67.166.76.157) |
| 18:35.26 | Legorol | oh well, adios |
| 18:35.33 | nevcairiel | because smallvalue * value == value, right?! |
| 18:36.53 | Jamie_^ | Logically. I have no sound right now, but the video is legendary if comments are anything to go by. |
| 18:37.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Ellira (n=lecuyep@modemcable116.48-81-70.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 18:38.04 | Jamie_^ | dear_light: Drink a whole bunch and do an event trace? |
| 18:38.23 | nevcairiel | !api drunk |
| 18:38.23 | lua_bot | Could not find a match for 'drunk'. |
| 18:38.26 | dear_light | problem is im look for an event or something on player login |
| 18:38.27 | nevcairiel | hm |
| 18:38.27 | NightHawkTheSane | anything that starts with "drink a whole bunch" is a sound plan in my book |
| 18:38.34 | nevcairiel | indeed |
| 18:38.40 | dear_light | i can get it when you drink after login |
| 18:40.05 | Jamie_^ | I assume there's an event sent every now and then when you're drunk? |
| 18:40.16 | nevcairiel | no, only on state changes |
| 18:40.26 | dear_light | mmm |
| 18:40.27 | Jamie_^ | Ah. |
| 18:46.00 | Fisker | Legorol |
| 18:46.10 | Fisker | 1/0 is so small you can call it nullity |
| 18:46.38 | Fisker | how i hated media coverage of that one |
| 18:49.19 | Jamie_^ | ponders how the lua_bot works. |
| 18:49.24 | Jamie_^ | !api actionbar |
| 18:49.24 | lua_bot | Found 14 possible matches for 'actionbar'. Please be more specific |
| 18:49.32 | Jamie_^ | Well, damn. |
| 18:49.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphon (n=gryphon@c-76-104-164-148.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 18:51.00 | Jamie_^ | There was a nice list of which action button slots the default action bars use somewhere on WoWWiki but I can't seem to find it. |
| 18:51.53 | Jamie_^ | Got it. |
| 18:57.27 | *** join/#wowuidev mitchnull (n=mitchnul@catv3EC944A1.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 18:58.51 | cog|work | hey Ellira :) |
| 18:59.34 | Ellira | Hey Cog :) |
| 19:00.05 | Shirik | tackles Lopeppeppy |
| 19:00.32 | Fisker | slaps Shirik around a bit with a large trout |
| 19:00.38 | Fisker | you wouldn't tackle a girl |
| 19:00.59 | Shirik | I would tackle Lopeppeppy |
| 19:01.13 | sylvanaar | http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/02/passenger-accidentally-ejects-himself-from-airforce-airplane/ |
| 19:02.09 | Lopeppeppy | He very would tackle me. :) |
| 19:02.16 | Shirik | I'm going to assume he's dead |
| 19:02.18 | Lopeppeppy | Heya, Shirik. How's things going with the suit-wearing? |
| 19:02.28 | Shirik | Yeah... I found out the career fair is tomorrow, not today |
| 19:02.33 | Shirik | so no suit today |
| 19:02.35 | Shirik | rest of the week though |
| 19:02.58 | Lopeppeppy | Yay, one day without the suit! |
| 19:03.07 | Lopeppeppy | Shirik, I will assume that he's alive, the parachute is in the seat. |
| 19:03.08 | Seerah | will we get pictures of Shirik in said suit? ;) |
| 19:03.14 | Seerah | *nod* |
| 19:03.26 | cog|work | sylvanaar: interface fail imo :P |
| 19:03.28 | Shirik | I know that Lopeppeppy, but there are other factors involved here |
| 19:03.45 | Lopeppeppy | Oooh, pictures of suit!!! |
| 19:03.50 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 19:03.50 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 19:03.53 | Lopeppeppy | Yeah, true... dead might be possible still. |
| 19:03.54 | Shirik | ah no he's alive |
| 19:04.13 | sylvanaar | http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/02/south-africa-passenger-ejector-seat |
| 19:04.22 | sylvanaar | yeah riught |
| 19:04.41 | sylvanaar | that should go on failblog imo |
| 19:04.43 | Shirik | cog|work: That's actually a discussion human factors teams have been debating over for a while |
| 19:05.00 | Shirik | On one side, ejection needs to be easy and instantaneous |
| 19:05.00 | mitchnull | what's the easiest way in AceConfigDialog to force two controls to stay on the same line, and force a line-break between those and the next pair of controls? |
| 19:05.14 | Shirik | On the other side, ejection needs to be complex enough that you won't do it by accident |
| 19:05.27 | Shirik | those are conflicting requirements |
| 19:05.28 | mitchnull | ECHAN |
| 19:05.43 | sylvanaar | "All it takes is for the firing handle [the rubbery black- and yellow-striped loop] to be pulled up about 2.5cm and you're on your way out." |
| 19:06.11 | sylvanaar | on your way out... lol thats so win |
| 19:06.26 | Lopeppeppy | And if you are injured or under G-force pressure, the moves cannot be complex or sequential, etc... |
| 19:06.38 | Seerah | mitchnull: are you having problems keeping them on the same line?... |
| 19:06.42 | cog|work | Shirik: aye |
| 19:06.48 | alestane | Once again, the age-old debate of security vs. usability. |
| 19:06.58 | Shirik | This is why I refuse to deal with human factors |
| 19:06.59 | Lopeppeppy | but with a life-or-death twist. |
| 19:07.04 | Shirik | and let those guys figure it out and just tell me what to do |
| 19:07.10 | cog|work | heh |
| 19:07.23 | sylvanaar | lol - just dont fucking touch it ever unless you are going to die |
| 19:08.02 | Shirik | Hey guys |
| 19:08.05 | Shirik | you're in for a real treat today |
| 19:08.22 | Lopeppeppy | Oh yeah? |
| 19:08.26 | Jamie_^ | I guess the thrill of flying in one of those things wasn't enough, so he went the extra 100 meters. |
| 19:08.48 | sylvanaar | "What a trip. That guy took off in an Astra, came down in a parachute, and landed back at base in a helicopter. Not bad for a for a single flip." |
| 19:08.49 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik: i was hoping for a fake treat :) |
| 19:08.55 | NightHawkTheSane | err :( |
| 19:09.03 | Shirik | I'm going to show you what goes on in the WoWI staff channels behind your back. The very important discussion we have. |
| 19:09.08 | Shirik | http://wowi.pastey.net/127518 |
| 19:09.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 19:09.29 | Seerah | hey! that's private stuff! |
| 19:09.31 | cog|work | TURKEY! |
| 19:09.31 | Shirik | lol |
| 19:10.01 | Seerah | you missed the "(1:08:20 PM) Seerah: I like my turkey sandwiches in monochrome" line :p |
| 19:10.02 | NightHawkTheSane | i'm not really a fan of rye |
| 19:10.17 | cog|work | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2AWKfMvDtw |
| 19:10.18 | Shirik | I copied too early :( |
| 19:15.32 | cog|work | News flash! The FDA now requires printed warning labels on all magicians' hats sold. "Caution: May be Rabbit-forming." |
| 19:15.41 | cog|work | ~rimshot |
| 19:15.48 | purl | ba-dum CHH |
| 19:15.48 | Shirik | ~lart cog|work |
| 19:15.48 | purl | farts in cog|work's general direction |
| 19:15.50 | Ackis | What's the best thing about a blow job? Ten minutes of silence. ROFL |
| 19:16.16 | Lopeppeppy | Oh, it shuts you the hell up? I'll be sure to tell your girl that's what it takes. |
| 19:16.24 | Ackis | hahah |
| 19:16.32 | alestane | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-Ta4XbRRj4 |
| 19:16.43 | Jamie_^ | I should probably have asked this earlier, but does anyone know a simpler way to iterate through all available default action buttons than a whole load of conditionals and manually setting the name of the button based on documentation? |
| 19:16.57 | Ackis | someone on twitter did sexist jokes against guys yesterday, and is doing sexist jokes against girls today |
| 19:17.00 | Ackis | many lulz to be had |
| 19:17.23 | Lopeppeppy | Equal opportunity, i guess. |
| 19:17.31 | Lopeppeppy | But I think that both are horrible and not very funny. |
| 19:17.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Ose (n=chatzill@wikia/Ose) |
| 19:18.01 | cog|work | it's all about context |
| 19:18.10 | cog|work | given the appropriate context anything can be funny imo |
| 19:18.40 | Ackis | everything is funny |
| 19:18.43 | cog|work | and compartmentalization |
| 19:18.51 | alestane | Jamie_^: Not clear on what you're trying to do. |
| 19:19.53 | Shirik | huggles Lopeppeppy |
| 19:20.40 | Jamie_^ | alestane: I'm trying to iterate through every action button available and assign its name to a variable. Currently this means something like: for i = 1, 132 do if i <= 24 then buttonName = "ActionButton" .. i elseif i <= 36 then buttonName = "MultiBarRightButton" .. (i - 24) etc. |
| 19:21.12 | cog|work | Jamie_^: it might be simpler if you used different loops for each base name |
| 19:21.31 | Jamie_^ | Yeah, can do. But there's no elegant way? |
| 19:21.42 | Jamie_^ | Meaning a way to get exactly which buttons are available (or their numbers, at least)? |
| 19:21.42 | cog|work | the more programmatic way is far less elegant |
| 19:21.50 | alestane | If you're trying to iterate over the buttons themselves, then you do typically have to break things up. |
| 19:22.11 | Jamie_^ | Hmm, OK. Thanks, I'll carry on with this. At least I know I haven't been wasting my time now :-). |
| 19:22.21 | alestane | Ultimately, you need a list of at least the action bars you want to look at. |
| 19:22.42 | Jamie_^ | Thankfully, this page: http://www.wowwiki.com/ActionSlot is pretty helpful with that. |
| 19:22.54 | cog|work | Jamie_^: it might help to make a small starter table with the names of the bars and the number of buttons on tehm. then you can just iterate through that table |
| 19:23.11 | Jamie_^ | Aha, good idea! |
| 19:23.20 | cog|work | e.g. local bars = { ActionButton = 12, MultiBarRightButton = 12 ... } |
| 19:23.34 | alestane | You can do something like |
| 19:23.35 | alestane | for i, bar in ipairs{ MainMenuBarArtFrame, MultiBarRight, MutlBarLeft, ...} do for j, button in ipairs{bar:GetChildren()} do ... end end |
| 19:24.20 | Jamie_^ | Hmm.. which of the two would be most recommended? |
| 19:25.24 | sylvanaar | its lua you are lucky to only have been given 2 ways |
| 19:25.24 | Jamie_^ | Haha, fair enough. |
| 19:25.24 | cog|work | mine's less future proof though the chances they'll change the number of buttons on the bar is pretty slim |
| 19:25.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Doow (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/doow) |
| 19:25.39 | cog|work | alestane's might be a bit less performant and if the bar has any other children besides buttons (which i don't think they do, but meh) you'll have to take them into account |
| 19:26.06 | cog|work | 6 of one, half dozen of the other, imo |
| 19:26.10 | Jamie_^ | Hmm.. alright. I think I'll go with yours, then. |
| 19:27.52 | Shirik | omfg |
| 19:27.57 | cog|work | NO U! |
| 19:27.57 | Shirik | GM finally gave us the CAN dictionary |
| 19:28.06 | Shirik | only a year and a half late |
| 19:28.16 | cog|work | dictionary attacks your CAN CAN |
| 19:28.28 | Lopeppeppy | OMG, this program is going terribad slowlysome! |
| 19:28.57 | Shirik | what the hell? |
| 19:29.02 | Shirik | IT just sent me an email... |
| 19:29.09 | Lopeppeppy | Yay, they love you! |
| 19:29.24 | Shirik | "I am emailing you to explain the steps necessary to acquire a UNIX account." |
| 19:29.30 | Shirik | As much as I want one, I don't know why they think I want one |
| 19:29.56 | Lopeppeppy | Mass email? |
| 19:30.33 | Shirik | no |
| 19:30.37 | Shirik | it was sent to 5 people |
| 19:30.47 | Lopeppeppy | From a particular course? |
| 19:30.47 | Shirik | I do recognize the others' names too |
| 19:30.56 | Shirik | maybe |
| 19:35.05 | Shirik | ..... |
| 19:35.12 | Shirik | Sending email.... The server responded: 4.3.1 Insufficient system resources. |
| 19:35.30 | Shirik | FYI: My SMTP server is outlook.com |
| 19:35.47 | nevcairiel | that explains it |
| 19:35.55 | nevcairiel | a MS product ate all resources |
| 19:36.06 | Shirik | all resources on their own server |
| 19:36.07 | Lopeppeppy | nom nom nom |
| 19:36.18 | cog|work | mmmmmm reeesourceesssss |
| 19:36.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (n=caleb@dsl4E5C00C4.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 19:36.40 | Shirik | one would think outlook.com is a decently maintained and powerful server |
| 19:36.45 | Lopeppeppy | terribad sloooooooooow. |
| 19:36.53 | cog|work | resources pieceources |
| 19:37.38 | Shirik | huggles Lopeppeppy |
| 19:37.40 | Shirik | what program? |
| 19:38.33 | Lopeppeppy | acalog for college catlogs |
| 19:38.46 | Jamie_^ | !api shapeshift |
| 19:38.46 | lua_bot | Found 11 possible results for 'shapeshift': GameTooltip:SetShapeshift, GetShapeshiftForm, GetShapeshiftFormInfo, UPDATE_SHAPESHIFT_COOLDOWN, GetShapeshiftFormCooldown, UPDATE_SHAPESHIFT_USABLE, UPDATE_SHAPESHIFT_FORMS, CastShapeshiftForm, UPDATE_SHAPESHIFT_FORM, GetNumShapeshiftForms, CancelShapeshiftForm |
| 19:38.51 | Shirik | Your recent request for an account on the student UNIX server has been approved. Information on HTML can be obtained at www.w3c.org. Information on creating dynamic web pages in PHP can be obtained at www.php.net. |
| 19:38.57 | Shirik | Why do they think I'm trying to create dynamic webpages... |
| 19:39.17 | Shirik | IT is strange |
| 19:39.18 | Arrowmaster | why do they think anybody would willingly use PHP? |
| 19:39.26 | Trela_ | I do. |
| 19:39.28 | Shirik | PHP isn't bad |
| 19:39.36 | Shirik | PHP's only major fault is inconsistency |
| 19:39.37 | Shirik | tbh |
| 19:39.48 | Arrowmaster | true |
| 19:39.58 | Arrowmaster | and theres not really any alternatives |
| 19:40.06 | Jamie_^ | Go the professional way and make some pseudo-dynamic (animated GIFs) HTML pages. |
| 19:40.23 | Shirik | omg |
| 19:40.24 | Shirik | that's perfect |
| 19:40.27 | Jamie_^ | I thought so. |
| 19:40.33 | Mikk | http://th07.deviantart.net/fs51/300W/f/2009/264/4/5/Vegetarian_Zombie_Design_by_kevinbolk.jpg |
| 19:40.35 | Shirik | The best way to ensure browser consistency |
| 19:40.40 | Shirik | Every page is just a single image |
| 19:40.59 | Shirik | and the image is dynamically created |
| 19:41.00 | Jamie_^ | Don't forget <blink> and <marquee> |
| 19:41.06 | Shirik | you can implement those in the image |
| 19:41.10 | durcyn | geocities is dead, long live geocities |
| 19:41.21 | Jamie_^ | That would be unprofessional, though. |
| 19:42.31 | Jamie_^ | Love the vegetarian zombie. |
| 19:43.01 | Lopeppeppy | is hungry |
| 19:43.10 | Shirik | feeds Lopeppeppy a cog|work |
| 19:43.58 | Lopeppeppy | ... I am not an obligate cogivore |
| 19:44.31 | Shirik | this is where I would expect zenzelezz to say something like "It's ok, you can eat me instead" |
| 19:44.42 | Shirik | hides |
| 19:45.10 | nevcairiel | mm you know what i just noticed, android unlocks multi-touch in europe because the patent that blocks it in the US isnt valid here, yay :P |
| 19:45.15 | cog|work | slaps Shirik |
| 19:45.25 | Shirik | multi-touch is patented? |
| 19:45.32 | nevcairiel | by apple, apparently |
| 19:45.34 | Shirik | um |
| 19:45.39 | Shirik | storm has multi-touch |
| 19:45.44 | Shirik | not 4 way like apple has it |
| 19:45.48 | Shirik | but 2 way at least |
| 19:46.03 | cog|work | maybe they licensed it? or will be sued momentarily? |
| 19:46.19 | Shirik | it's been out for a year and a half I think they would have already been hit :P |
| 19:47.22 | nevcairiel | Its funny that Android fully supports it and its just disabled on US phones, hah |
| 19:48.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Stew-a (n=Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 19:49.12 | Shirik | huh |
| 19:49.15 | Shirik | the storm 2 has 4 buttons also |
| 19:49.50 | nevcairiel | maybe they licensed it |
| 19:49.52 | Shirik | so you can do true multi-touch |
| 19:50.11 | Shirik | so if you are holding two points, you can click the screen and it will know which one |
| 19:51.17 | Shirik | What's interesting is that the only other phones on the market technically capable of multitouchâRIM's BlackBerry Storm and T-Mobile's Google Android G1âhave web browsers that scroll in exactly the same manner described in the patent. But, if they don't also feature a Cover Flow-like interface for side scrolling (the G1's photo gallery uses next/prev buttons, for instance), they're legally safe from infringing |
| 19:52.46 | Shirik | it seems Apple didn't patent the multitouch technology |
| 19:52.52 | cog|work | ~lart patents |
| 19:52.52 | purl | takes out a cattle prod and gives patents a good jolt |
| 19:52.53 | Shirik | but rather what it accomplishes |
| 19:53.37 | Shirik | and this is interesting |
| 19:53.38 | Arrowmaster | thats generally how software patents work |
| 19:53.44 | Shirik | " It has a list of 20 claims but as Prof. Wagner showed us, out of the 20, 17 are "dependent," which means they drill down more specifically into features of the invention/interface/device described in their parent claim. In our quick Patent Law 101 with Professor Wagner, |
| 19:53.45 | Shirik | we learned that to legally infringe upon a patent, you need to violate an entire independent claim, which means, if you rip off one of its dependents, you're OK, you just can't rip off all of them all together." |
| 19:54.25 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 19:54.27 | Fisker | look at my horse ;3 |
| 19:54.51 | Shirik | Interesting discussion: http://gizmodo.com/5142445/dissecting-apples-multitouch-patent-can-it-stop-palm |
| 19:55.11 | Jamie_^ | WoWWiki lists the cat form action buttons as 73 to 84 but doesn't list the stealthed page. It does say "Unknown: slots 85 to 96" under the cat listing, so by chance is stealthed 85 to 96? |
| 19:56.08 | Fisker | I thought Catform didn't have a stealth action bar |
| 19:57.07 | Jamie_^ | I wasn't sure, but my girlfriend seems to think so, and she's been playing druid for a number of years. That said, never with default action bars... |
| 19:57.14 | Shirik | Work gurus: I served as a panelist and gave a talk at an SAE conference. Is that something to put on a resume? I guess I probably shouldn't simply because I can't fit it |
| 19:57.21 | kdtresh|work | it didn't when i was on my druid a week ago |
| 19:57.27 | Jamie_^ | Alright, thanks :-). |
| 19:57.32 | Arrowmaster | if cat form does have a stealth bar it would have to be bar10 |
| 19:57.40 | NightHawkTheSane | some bar addons will add one, but im not sure if it has one y default |
| 19:57.53 | Jamie_^ | Aye, I'm just after the default stuff. |
| 19:58.10 | Jamie_^ | I don't know why I'm writing an addon for default action bars when I never use them. *shrug* |
| 19:58.37 | Kraps | http://www.pcworld.com/article/181138/icann_oks_international_domains_the_pros_and_cons.html |
| 19:59.19 | Kraps | i voted |
| 19:59.53 | Shirik | Yeah, I think it's a horrible idea |
| 20:00.17 | Shirik | it may sound egotistical in that I'm basically saying "everyone should use latin characters" but the security issues that arise out of it are insane |
| 20:00.17 | Fisker | huh? |
| 20:00.22 | Fisker | Already been here for ??? years |
| 20:00.25 | Fisker | and yeah it sucks |
| 20:01.12 | Shirik | it's only kinda been here |
| 20:01.15 | Shirik | it's going to explode now |
| 20:02.19 | dear_light | there a way to see if a party member has just zoned into an instance (tried to look for an event but couldnt find one) |
| 20:02.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Stew-a (n=Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 20:03.00 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 20:03.00 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 20:04.36 | Arrowmaster | http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4510/125/ |
| 20:04.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide- (n=Cide@h238n1-far-gr100.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 20:04.43 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
| 20:05.11 | Lopeppeppy | is cold |
| 20:05.25 | Shirik | gives Lopeppeppy a blanket |
| 20:05.32 | Shirik | you should get a snuggie |
| 20:05.35 | Shirik | I need one of those |
| 20:05.38 | Shirik | I'm always cold |
| 20:05.42 | Lopeppeppy | ... YOU get a snuggie. |
| 20:05.53 | Lopeppeppy | I have a space heater here, and an electric lap blanket at home. |
| 20:05.54 | Shirik | I probably will :P |
| 20:05.59 | Shirik | oh wow |
| 20:06.09 | Shirik | yeah my boss had the company buy him a space heater, lol |
| 20:06.17 | kdtresh|work | i would consider getting a snuggie, but their commercials are atrocious |
| 20:06.19 | Shirik | because EVERYBODY likes it cold but he likes it like 76 |
| 20:06.23 | Shirik | like me |
| 20:06.41 | Arrowmaster | you get a slanket not the cheapass ripoff snuggie |
| 20:06.52 | Lopeppeppy | I like it around 65 usually, I'm just cold today for some reason. Probably the fever again. Darn it. |
| 20:07.22 | Shirik | If they fail at advertising and patents, then they fail at marketing |
| 20:07.26 | Shirik | and deserve to lose business |
| 20:07.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraftman (n=Chris@cpc1-cwma7-2-0-cust280.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 20:07.40 | Arrowmaster | which? |
| 20:07.54 | Shirik | slanket |
| 20:08.17 | Shirik | I've never heard of them |
| 20:08.17 | Arrowmaster | slanket cant afford advertising afaik, not like snuggie |
| 20:08.33 | Shirik | business fail imo |
| 20:08.42 | kdtresh|work | slanket is on qvc |
| 20:08.48 | Arrowmaster | oh |
| 20:08.55 | Arrowmaster | i dont have cable tv |
| 20:09.08 | Sesshu | http://images.4fuckr.com/4f33725a1f1d/9/4/c/d/6/94cd6c2c37.jpg |
| 20:10.00 | Shirik | Is that to imply that if you DID have cable TV, you would watch QVC? |
| 20:10.13 | Arrowmaster | but still from everything ive hears the snuggie is a cheap thin inferior product compared to the original slanket |
| 20:10.17 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: no |
| 20:10.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 20:11.35 | Fisker | slaps Arrowmaster around a bit with a large trout |
| 20:11.39 | cog|work | Dolby: I transferred BuyDropper to Ellira a few weeks ago, but he's having trouble accessing the SVN. I'm still marked as the team leader, but I've given him read/write access. Do you think something may be out of sync? |
| 20:11.44 | cog|work | svn://svn.wowinterface.com/BuyDropper-31 |
| 20:11.54 | cog|work | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info5280-BuyDropper.html |
| 20:14.13 | Shirik | I don't see his access cog|work |
| 20:14.21 | Shirik | you are the only one with readwrite access |
| 20:14.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (n=kalroth@2506ds1-hj.0.fullrate.dk) |
| 20:14.42 | Shirik | When did you do the transfer? I see last modification to access on the 19th of October? |
| 20:16.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (n=Kaso@81.145.247.23) |
| 20:17.21 | cog|work | just waved you a screenie of the team permissions page for buydropper |
| 20:17.37 | Lopeppeppy | Waved. *laugh* |
| 20:17.41 | Lopeppeppy | New verb |
| 20:17.59 | cog|work | Lopeppeppy: yeah i invented it last night when i blogged! aren't you proud??!! =D |
| 20:18.45 | Lopeppeppy | I am, you're all grown up now, you have your own verb. |
| 20:18.47 | Shirik | omfg |
| 20:18.50 | Shirik | o.m.f.g. |
| 20:18.57 | Shirik | I can put google wave into Jira/Confluence |
| 20:19.08 | Shirik | that's badass |
| 20:19.44 | Industrial | I so want it -_- |
| 20:21.06 | Shirik | cog|work check the wave |
| 20:21.41 | Lopeppeppy | wants to be wavey too. |
| 20:22.03 | cog|work | Shirik: as if i didn't see you typing that :P |
| 20:22.10 | Shirik | it says you're not on |
| 20:22.17 | cog|work | Shirik: the dots are broken |
| 20:22.20 | Shirik | oh |
| 20:24.51 | Shirik | even if you see me typing, you are failing at responding cog|work :P |
| 20:26.01 | cog|work | Shirik: i'm information overloading at the moment |
| 20:26.06 | cog|work | >< |
| 20:26.10 | Shirik | me too |
| 20:26.16 | Shirik | imo it's because somebody created 5 million waves |
| 20:33.22 | Lopeppeppy | OMG, I got a sheeple to do their own work!! |
| 20:34.48 | p3lim | what is the counter macro condition of [flyable]? [noflyable] didnt work |
| 20:35.23 | Dolby | cog|work: Directory: None |
| 20:35.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Pewpewarrows (n=Pewpewar@c-68-33-19-176.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 20:35.32 | Dolby | should be root no? |
| 20:35.39 | cog|work | Dolby: lern2wave imo :> |
| 20:35.43 | cog|work | hides |
| 20:35.58 | Shirik | Dolby: That's what I was thinking |
| 20:36.01 | Dolby | waves at cog|work |
| 20:36.04 | Shirik | and why I asked cog|work |
| 20:36.05 | Lopeppeppy | http://www.wowwiki.com/Mount_macros ? |
| 20:36.09 | Shirik | but cog|work refused to respond |
| 20:36.12 | Shirik | so I was like usux |
| 20:36.20 | cog|work | lolnub i responded |
| 20:37.00 | Shirik | I gave up waiting :P |
| 20:38.02 | Dolby | go to team permissions, go to your ellira entry and change the directory access to / (root) |
| 20:38.14 | Dolby | or i can just make him the leader of the svn |
| 20:38.19 | cog|work | Dolby: that would be ideal |
| 20:38.24 | Dolby | ok |
| 20:38.27 | Dolby | will do that |
| 20:38.58 | Shirik | Dolby is uber |
| 20:39.07 | Ellira | Thanks Cog,Dolby and Shirik, it works now |
| 20:39.11 | Lopeppeppy | Dolby is made of awesome. |
| 20:39.28 | Shirik | I am not made of awesome :( |
| 20:39.44 | Lopeppeppy | Why no? |
| 20:39.45 | Dolby | no thats Cairenn, Lopeppeppy |
| 20:40.00 | Shirik | because you did not say I was |
| 20:40.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Ruck (n=bleh@pool-72-86-106-233.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 20:41.01 | alestane | p3lim: [noflyable] is indeed the counter condition of [flyable]. |
| 20:41.05 | Lopeppeppy | Cairenn has other ingredients, Dolby, I promise. |
| 20:41.18 | Lopeppeppy | Shirik, I have said you were before. It's not like it wears off. |
| 20:41.46 | Shirik | <3 |
| 20:42.11 | p3lim | odd |
| 20:42.36 | p3lim | oh, it was this mix that didnt work: [modifier:shift,noflyable] |
| 20:42.47 | Dolby | ok Ellira is now the owner |
| 20:42.53 | Dolby | of the svn |
| 20:43.20 | Ellira | Yep, cool, got the options dropdown now, and managed to do a commit. Thanks Dolby |
| 20:44.00 | Shirik | no thanks to me :( |
| 20:44.03 | Jamie_^ | Out of curiosity, how many of you follow the 80 columns max convention? |
| 20:44.16 | NightHawkTheSane | <-- |
| 20:44.23 | Shirik | lol I didn't do much except say "whatever you did, you did it wrong, because the permissions aren't what you say they are :P" |
| 20:44.31 | NightHawkTheSane | or i try to , at least |
| 20:44.41 | Shirik | Jamie_^: Almost always |
| 20:44.46 | Shirik | I use it as a guideline |
| 20:44.48 | Shirik | not a rule |
| 20:44.52 | NightHawkTheSane | ^ |
| 20:45.00 | Jamie_^ | Do you find it actually practical? I find it pretty annoying to keep on top of, and it can get nightmareish if you add some exta code to a line that's split into a couple because of it. |
| 20:45.02 | Jamie_^ | Aha. |
| 20:45.26 | Shirik | If a line gets significantly beyond 80, it probably means I should split it up and comment the split to make it more readable |
| 20:45.36 | NightHawkTheSane | Jamie_^: i find it useful when i end up editing a file on multiple computers/screens |
| 20:45.36 | Shirik | like this |
| 20:46.37 | NightHawkTheSane | also, unrelated: http://theportablegamer.com/2009/11/when-life-parodies-art-parodying-life/ |
| 20:46.47 | Shirik | an example of when I split lines to comment: |
| 20:47.39 | Shirik | http://wowi.pastey.net/127525 |
| 20:48.08 | Shirik | (builds a Microsoft standard HRESULT from a set of parameters) |
| 20:48.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Stew_a (n=Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 20:48.39 | Jamie_^ | That game looks incredible. Taking a look at that code. |
| 20:49.26 | Jamie_^ | Ah, OK. So what about something like a very, very large string? Say, a few lines of 80 columns long. What if you want to modify that string? |
| 20:49.47 | Shirik | would it make it easier to find things if split up? |
| 20:49.49 | Shirik | That's all you have to ask |
| 20:49.53 | Shirik | would it be easier to read/modify |
| 20:50.36 | Jamie_^ | All right. So indeed, just a rule. I've had times where I've completely ignored it and others where I've followed it rigidly. I was Doing It Wrong, apparently. |
| 20:50.41 | Shirik | lol, google voice's voice mail -> email is awesome |
| 20:50.42 | Shirik | but |
| 20:50.50 | Shirik | I translated "Daytona" into "Khana"" |
| 20:50.52 | Shirik | wtf is Khana |
| 20:50.56 | Shirik | It* |
| 20:51.04 | Jamie_^ | KHANAKhmer HIV/AIDS NGO (Non-Governmental Organization) Alliance (Cambodia) |
| 20:51.30 | cog|work | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khana |
| 20:52.50 | Shirik | Iwonder why it knew about Khana and not Daytona |
| 20:53.30 | ZorbaGama | I don't even bother with line length issues |
| 20:53.31 | cog|work | tbh, i've never had much luck with google's speech recognition. 800-goog-411 for instance... |
| 20:53.46 | ZorbaGama | any competent editor can linewrap, so why spend valuable coder time on making the editor's job slightly easier? |
| 20:53.46 | sylvanaar | yeah, they have web pages devoted to funny xlations in google voice |
| 20:54.17 | Shirik | any competent code editor should not line wrap |
| 20:54.25 | ZorbaGama | if I need to split it up to insert comments in it, that's another matter, but if it's just a long line of code, I'll just use a long line of code. |
| 20:54.27 | Jamie_^ | Why's that? |
| 20:54.28 | ZorbaGama | shirik, why not? |
| 20:54.39 | sylvanaar | code editors will wrap comments for you |
| 20:54.41 | Shirik | you actually want your code wrapped? |
| 20:54.48 | Shirik | I can't even think about it like that |
| 20:54.58 | ZorbaGama | shirik, well, yes, obviously. if the line of code is too long otherwise I would like to be able to see it |
| 20:55.14 | haste | why would it be too long?! |
| 20:55.15 | Shirik | there's this magical thing at the bottom called a scroll bar, or if you have a good mouse like me you just tilt the mouse wheel |
| 20:55.19 | ZorbaGama | and I see no reason to spend effort splitting it up myself when my editor can do just as good of a job |
| 20:55.19 | Shirik | Or, better yet |
| 20:55.21 | sylvanaar | in c# and java i let it wrap my code for me |
| 20:55.23 | Shirik | Just write your code better |
| 20:55.30 | ZorbaGama | I don't know about you, I like being able to see all my code at once |
| 20:55.31 | haste | the line shouldn't be too long! |
| 20:55.32 | Shirik | The editor cannot possibly do "just as good of a job" |
| 20:55.48 | ZorbaGama | you're right, it probably does a better job. for example it rewraps it properly when the line gets longer or shorter |
| 20:55.54 | ZorbaGama | *and* it does it *automatically* |
| 20:55.57 | Shirik | no word wrap could possibly line up something like this http://wowi.pastey.net/127525 |
| 20:55.59 | ZorbaGama | allowing me to be lazier |
| 20:56.08 | Shirik | unless you specifically sized it like that |
| 20:56.12 | ZorbaGama | no, it wouldn't, and as I said, if I wanted inline comments, I'd do it myself |
| 20:56.21 | ZorbaGama | but if I didn't want inline comments, I wouldn't bother |
| 20:56.22 | Shirik | even without comments |
| 20:56.38 | Shirik | ok, then I'm glad I don't (and others don't) need to read your code |
| 20:56.41 | Shirik | and I fear your life in a year or so |
| 20:57.03 | ZorbaGama | *shrug* I been coding this way for half a decade, I don't think I'm going to be stopping anytime soon :P |
| 20:57.07 | sylvanaar | everyone needs to sleep(500) |
| 20:57.36 | Shirik | Welp, that may be true, but as soon as you hit a team that actually values needing to read others' code, you might need to change your mind on that thought |
| 20:57.38 | sylvanaar | btw: spaces > tabs |
| 20:57.46 | ZorbaGama | so, like, my last two jobs? |
| 20:57.49 | Shirik | those are spaces, sylvanaar |
| 20:57.52 | Shirik | Obviously not ZorbaGama |
| 20:58.05 | sylvanaar | im being silly Shirik |
| 20:58.11 | Jamie_^ | Also, vim > emacs *world asplodes* |
| 20:58.15 | ZorbaGama | I'm sorry man, but something as minor as adding the occasional \n just does not make that much difference |
| 20:58.34 | ZorbaGama | there are many bigger issues with code readability than how much you agonize over making your lines conform to obsolete 30-year-old hardware. |
| 20:58.36 | Shirik | the newline is not the difference. The spacing and tabulation is |
| 20:58.56 | Shirik | yay word wrap. It can put newlines in the worst possible space. |
| 20:59.04 | Shirik | no ty |
| 20:59.12 | ZorbaGama | and if I need to space things properly to make it readable, I will. but very, very often I don't. most lines, even if they're long, are just incredibly simple |
| 20:59.21 | NightHawkTheSane | both of you need to chill out and get off your high horses. |
| 20:59.26 | ZorbaGama | I mean, comments, for one thing :P |
| 20:59.48 | sylvanaar | most people are just happy they are there |
| 21:00.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Hirsute (n=chatzill@lre-east-3-11.usahousing.utah.edu) |
| 21:00.03 | Shirik | If they're not there, you drop the developer |
| 21:00.05 | Shirik | very simple |
| 21:00.14 | sylvanaar | oh come on |
| 21:00.31 | ZorbaGama | my experience is that reading code comes down to two major phases: trying to understand the flow of the code, and trying to understand the precise workings of the code |
| 21:00.42 | sylvanaar | you need to get your lasor cannon out and blast him |
| 21:00.50 | Shirik | ok fine, laser cannon |
| 21:01.04 | ZorbaGama | extra lines actively hurts the first case just by adding more vertical scroll and visual clutter and, in my experience, really doesn't help the second case significantly. |
| 21:01.45 | sylvanaar | 1) read code, 2) try to understand it, 3) call it crap, 4) write new code, 5) understand old code |
| 21:03.00 | ZorbaGama | sylvanaar, once I had 1) read code, 2) try to understand it, 3) prove that it can't possibly work, 4) show it to boss, 5) boss agrees it can't possibly work, 6) week-old binaries suddenly stop working company-wide, 7) scramble to write working replacement |
| 21:03.37 | msoul | Could somebody kindly tell what addon is this |
| 21:03.44 | msoul | http://www.ensidia.com/media/imgup/Nessaj/gallery/67cc0b6e60629f8f3e38fe7907a3eb8b.jpg |
| 21:03.55 | msoul | for actionbar as i've been trying to find it for a while |
| 21:04.17 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 21:04.17 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 21:04.39 | msoul | the black background and the ms/fps friends etc that shows under is quite nice |
| 21:05.23 | Jamie_^ | It could be virtually anything. 99% sure the black background & ms/fps is not part of the action bar addon. |
| 21:05.45 | msoul | Hmmm |
| 21:05.46 | Jamie_^ | Probably a panel addon with a DataBroker display. |
| 21:09.09 | msoul | seen it for a while and cannot tell what addon and it doesn't tell in the forums |
| 21:09.28 | sylvanaar | http://eu.techcrunch.com/2009/11/03/swedish-government-promises-superfast-broadband-to-all/ |
| 21:09.49 | sylvanaar | im looking to relocate to sweden, anyone need a programmer? |
| 21:10.15 | mitchnull | 1) vim > emacs, 2) lines should be at most 80 chars wide, 3) indent(1) and 4) stay away from languages where indentation/whitespace changes the meaning of the code :P |
| 21:10.27 | sylvanaar | hahaha |
| 21:11.03 | krka | why sweden of all places? |
| 21:11.11 | Lopeppeppy | Because it will hurt more! |
| 21:11.17 | Lopeppeppy | ... wait, that's for spoons. |
| 21:11.21 | NightHawkTheSane | im going to guess it has to do with the link he posted |
| 21:11.55 | Lopeppeppy | Aren't they starting with... superslow broadband? |
| 21:11.59 | sylvanaar | is there such a thing as a fat swede? |
| 21:12.14 | sylvanaar | or are they all skinny |
| 21:12.53 | Lopeppeppy | Fat is everywhere. |
| 21:13.45 | Kraps | Olive oil, virgin olive oil, extra virgin olive oil, olive oil with a questionable past... |
| 21:13.56 | sylvanaar | another reason i like sweden is the Ã
makes me think im dialing the last digit in my stargate |
| 21:15.30 | Shirik | Wait |
| 21:15.34 | Shirik | Sweeden is socialist? |
| 21:15.45 | Shirik | Cide-, I'm not sure I can associate with you anymore |
| 21:15.56 | olafski | probably not the right place to ask.. but does anyone know of an addon that might be disconnecting me? I'm getting disconnected 4 times a night (tonight that is ;p) and my gf sitting next to me has no trouble at all |
| 21:16.08 | NightHawkTheSane | questhelper? |
| 21:16.16 | Jamie_^ | Something that sends a lot of messages? .. Like QuestHelper, yeah. |
| 21:16.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Lonny`zzz (n=anonymou@bzq-84-110-137-76.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 21:16.49 | olafski | I'm not using questhelper |
| 21:16.56 | olafski | someone said carbonite sends way more messages though |
| 21:16.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Lonny` (n=anonymou@bzq-84-110-137-76.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 21:16.58 | olafski | and we both use that.. |
| 21:16.59 | *** part/#wowuidev Lonny` (n=anonymou@bzq-84-110-137-76.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 21:17.06 | zenzelezz | <sylvanaar> http://eu.techcrunch.com/2009/11/03/swedish-government-promises-superfast-broadband-to-all/ <--- Finland already decided to do something like that a couple of weeks ago IIRC |
| 21:17.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (n=chatzill@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 21:17.26 | nevcairiel | indeed |
| 21:17.33 | Shirik | zenzelezz: Read the first line |
| 21:17.35 | NightHawkTheSane | thats probably just as bad |
| 21:17.36 | Jamie_^ | Does it? Last time I used QuestHelper it dropped my FPS by about 20, so I assumed it was a hog on all fronts. Never had that with Carbonite. Still, though, I'd definitely try disabling Carbonite. |
| 21:17.47 | zenzelezz | Shirik: I didn't even click the link |
| 21:17.56 | Shirik | [Sweden] The Swedish government is following in the footsteps of the Finns (well almost), as their IT-ministry is now promising that 90 percent of all Swedish homes will have access to a 100 mbit/s broadband connection before 2020. |
| 21:17.57 | olafski | jamie_^: sending messages doesn't have to equate to lower fps ;) |
| 21:17.58 | Shirik | First sentence :P |
| 21:17.59 | ZorbaGama | QH barely sends any messages :P |
| 21:18.05 | zenzelezz | Shirik: again, I didn't visit the page |
| 21:18.07 | Jamie_^ | Aye, I know, it was a silly assumption :-). |
| 21:18.08 | nevcairiel | well at least sweden is giving itself 10 years |
| 21:18.10 | Shirik | I quoted it for you! |
| 21:18.14 | ZorbaGama | and Carbonite is a crazy spam machine |
| 21:18.15 | zenzelezz | Shirik: useless |
| 21:18.21 | ZorbaGama | as is GearScore, if either of you use that |
| 21:18.23 | Shirik | zenzelezz |
| 21:18.27 | sylvanaar | zenzelezz yes but they need it to transmit their really long words |
| 21:18.27 | olafski | I'd disable carbonite but I'm not sure I could live without that map |
| 21:18.27 | Jamie_^ | How about Cartographer, as far as messages go? |
| 21:18.28 | Shirik | where were you when Lopeppeppy was hungry |
| 21:18.38 | ZorbaGama | I don't believe Cartographer sends much, if any |
| 21:18.40 | olafski | I'll give it a go though |
| 21:18.53 | Jamie_^ | Well I mean some of the social modules. |
| 21:18.58 | ZorbaGama | wonder if I'm gonna have to implement the carbonite map someday |
| 21:19.29 | olafski | oh god how am I going to do my dailies without carbonite :p |
| 21:19.41 | Shirik | then put it back on |
| 21:19.49 | olafski | a full fledged quest helping addon might be a bit much considering I'm a loremaster already |
| 21:19.50 | Jamie_^ | It's just worth testing. |
| 21:19.53 | Shirik | if you're not getting constantly disconnected, it's probably not Carbonite |
| 21:19.58 | Shirik | consistently* |
| 21:20.15 | olafski | if only it was consistent.. then I could properly test what it was |
| 21:20.16 | Shirik | Carbonite might be a bit on the spammy side, but it's nowhere near the limit and it has a pretty constant outgoing rate |
| 21:20.30 | olafski | now I have to turn something off, wait a few hours and "assume" I'm safe |
| 21:20.43 | ZorbaGama | honestly, WoW is also just flaky lately, as near as I can tell |
| 21:20.45 | Jamie_^ | Hm.. since we're on the subject, does anyone know what caused the issue of disconnections in Naxx at Four Horsemen? It seemed to be an addon thing. |
| 21:20.55 | Shirik | Blame DBM |
| 21:20.57 | Shirik | That's what I'd do |
| 21:20.59 | ZorbaGama | I've had random disconnects on login with absolutely no UI mods installed. something's busted and I'm not sure anyone knows what yet |
| 21:21.02 | Shirik | very satisfying |
| 21:21.04 | Lopeppeppy | then it was probably an addon thing? I'd blame my raid mods first. |
| 21:21.05 | Jamie_^ | But DBM is our friend. |
| 21:21.19 | Lopeppeppy | Zorba, in your case I'd blame network/realm things. |
| 21:21.59 | sylvanaar | oikeudenkäyntipäiväkirja |
| 21:22.05 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1: You'd get a kick out of this |
| 21:22.08 | sylvanaar | what sort of word is that |
| 21:22.26 | ZorbaGama | lope, *shrug* I don't buy it, myself, my realm's low-population and it seems odd that it would be network when it behaves differently on two different sibling computers. |
| 21:22.35 | Shirik | Someone posted to full disclosure a message with "This message is confidential..." |
| 21:22.48 | ZorbaGama | if it's hardware, it's something that WoW is doing that no other game does, which is effectively "something WoW needs to fix". |
| 21:22.49 | Lopeppeppy | Population /= network |
| 21:23.06 | Lopeppeppy | if it's hardware, it's something you need to fix, it's your hardware. |
| 21:23.23 | Ackis | I got mentioned on twitter by @EA zomg |
| 21:23.27 | Ackis | anyone here have dragon age yet? |
| 21:23.28 | ZorbaGama | no, I disagree. if it's a problem that only occurs with WoW, and it's as common as it seems to be, it's WoW that needs to fix it. |
| 21:23.38 | sylvanaar | Ackis i have it on steam |
| 21:23.38 | ZorbaGama | It's *also* something the hardware manufacturer should fix |
| 21:23.43 | Lopeppeppy | Wow is software. Why do you think it can fix hardware? |
| 21:23.45 | ZorbaGama | but sitting on your hands saying "well it's not our fault" doesn't fix problems. |
| 21:23.53 | ZorbaGama | the fact that it's the only game with those problems |
| 21:24.00 | ZorbaGama | there's something they're doing that breaks it, and they can isolate it and stop doing it. |
| 21:24.21 | Lopeppeppy | It's just a game with higher requirements, there you go, all isolated. |
| 21:24.27 | Lopeppeppy | Get more hardware. |
| 21:24.28 | ZorbaGama | WoW has low requirements, yo :P |
| 21:24.37 | ZorbaGama | it's the wimpiest thing I run. |
| 21:24.46 | ZorbaGama | seriously, I've tickled WoW bugs in Questhelper before |
| 21:24.55 | NeoTron | Shirik: [USA] Following in the footsteps of the Finns and Swedes (well, not really), the US is now promising that 90 percent of all US homes will have access to 256 kbps broadband connection before 2095. |
| 21:25.01 | ZorbaGama | my solution isn't to sit there and tell Blizzard to fix them, it's to work around the damn bug. |
| 21:25.09 | Shirik | that seems pretty much accurate neOliv |
| 21:25.11 | Shirik | NeoTron |
| 21:25.13 | Lopeppeppy | Every single computer is different, to expect Bliz to troubleshoot every single one is absurd. |
| 21:25.15 | ZorbaGama | the important part is that the problem goes away, not who you put the blame on while you hemorraghe customers. |
| 21:25.34 | ZorbaGama | I don't expect Blizzard to do that, but considering how often I've heard reports of this bug, it seems like something Blizzard should be working on. |
| 21:25.50 | Lopeppeppy | Why do you assume they are not? |
| 21:25.54 | ZorbaGama | it's something that's either caused by some common bit of hardware, or it's systematic across a large number of systems, or it's not a hardware bug in the first place. |
| 21:26.01 | ZorbaGama | I don't. why do you think I do? |
| 21:26.23 | Lopeppeppy | Sounded like it from your statement that it "seemed like" they should be. |
| 21:26.38 | ZorbaGama | I think they should be. I don't know if they are or not. |
| 21:26.53 | Lopeppeppy | I see them working on it all the time in the Tech forums, tracing things with phone companies and so forth, identifying large-scale issues with routing and that kind of thing. |
| 21:26.54 | ZorbaGama | I presume they're not dumb, so I presume they are, but they obviously haven't fixed it yet. I don't know of anyone who knows what the problem is yet. |
| 21:27.06 | Lopeppeppy | That, I hold them reasonably accountable for, company to company, route our shit properly! |
| 21:27.26 | Legorol | ZorbaGama: what bug are you referring to? |
| 21:27.28 | ZorbaGama | yeah, routing is not their problem, even if they do end up being the ones who have to encourage people to fix it ;) |
| 21:27.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Natch| (n=natch@c-cccee155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 21:27.48 | ZorbaGama | legorol, the various disconnect bugs WoW seems to have picked up in 3.2. there's a disconnect-on-logon glitch and a disconnect-in-battle glitch. |
| 21:28.09 | ZorbaGama | the two may be related, they may not. they behave identically besides the timing, and they showed up at the same time, but the timing is different enough that who knows. |
| 21:28.33 | Legorol | i have two questions: are they the same bugs for everyone, or just bugs with similar/same symptoms but potentially many different causes? |
| 21:28.34 | Shirik | and this is proven to be a bug because...? |
| 21:28.37 | ZorbaGama | disconnect-on-logon, at least, seems to be exacerbated by adding more UI mods, though not caused directly nor entirely fixed by. |
| 21:28.42 | Legorol | and the other: why would disconnect bugs be related to hardware? |
| 21:28.44 | ZorbaGama | legorol, that's the problem, nobody seems to know |
| 21:29.04 | ZorbaGama | if they knew where the bugs came from they'd probably have fixed them already. they're both very intermittent and never seem perfectly reproducible. |
| 21:29.24 | ZorbaGama | a flaky NIC could drop important packets, perhaps - maybe WoW happens to be transmitting in certain patterns that tickle driver bugs |
| 21:29.25 | NeoTron | Shirik: know what's funny? A comment from some US person (don't recall from where) said that there's a reason Sweden and other countries have better broadband - population density |
| 21:29.25 | Shirik | So we don't even know if it's a bug. So it would be wise to stop calling it as such. |
| 21:29.36 | Legorol | over the years i have seen many different causes for DC issues, from hardware to software, some of which were WoWs fault, some of which weren't |
| 21:29.41 | NeoTron | Shirik: of course what this person completely failed at is that the US has higher population density than Sweden |
| 21:29.45 | ZorbaGama | shirik, what would you prefer it to be called, a "possible bug"? |
| 21:29.49 | durcyn | wow's had issues with certain tcp-offload network cards before, it's not exactly unprecedented |
| 21:29.51 | Shirik | issue |
| 21:29.55 | Legorol | also, you are alluding to this being more common since 3.2, is that based on forum whining, personal experience or both? |
| 21:29.58 | Shirik | it's certainly an issue, we don't know what causes it |
| 21:30.05 | ZorbaGama | Alright. The various disconnect issues WoW seems to have picked up in 3.2. |
| 21:30.15 | NeoTron | Gearscore? |
| 21:30.18 | ZorbaGama | legorol, both |
| 21:30.38 | NeoTron | so I had significant disconnects in a raid and _for me_ it went away wehn I disabled zomgbuffs pally powe |
| 21:30.39 | ZorbaGama | along with reports on the QH page, this particular thing took a serious upswing after 3.2. |
| 21:31.00 | Legorol | This is how I like to think of sporadic WoW bugs: WoW puts your system under extreme stress, to my knowledge more so than any other application (with the possible exception of other MMOs) |
| 21:31.04 | ZorbaGama | I think one problem is that there are several reasons WoW might disconnect, from excessive addon spam to excessive load times to who-knows-what |
| 21:31.11 | ZorbaGama | but there is no indication of *which* the problem is |
| 21:31.12 | NeoTron | but on tehs spamfu meter, zomgbuffs pally power was very high |
| 21:31.14 | Legorol | so it is likely to trigger issues when things are in a grey area |
| 21:31.21 | ZorbaGama | which makes it very, very hard to track down what exactly it is |
| 21:31.25 | Legorol | that can include networking faults (on OS, software, driver or hardware level) |
| 21:31.31 | Legorol | or even your router/modem |
| 21:31.31 | ZorbaGama | legorol, I don't think WoW is that stressful, it runs on damn near everything |
| 21:31.37 | Legorol | yup the system reqs are low |
| 21:31.38 | Shirik | WoW runs on my dialup connection |
| 21:31.42 | Shirik | I know, I leveled from 40 to 50 on dialup |
| 21:31.51 | ZorbaGama | how is WoW more stressful than, say, Borderlands? it's less cpu-intensive, less gpu-intensive, and less bandwidth-intensive :P |
| 21:31.55 | Legorol | but what makes WoW stressful is the extent of utilisation of all subsystems of your PC, including OS and hardware |
| 21:32.06 | ZorbaGama | eh, I don't buy that. wow's a kitten. |
| 21:32.23 | Shirik | WoW actually does try to take as much CPU time as it can, it seems. Probably some internal mechanic to say "if I can do more, I will..." |
| 21:32.33 | ZorbaGama | shirik, sure, but virtually every game does that |
| 21:32.34 | Legorol | someone covered this in a post a while back, I think the example was how the amount of textures WoW needs to load are ginormous compared to say a state-of-the-art FPS |
| 21:32.36 | Shirik | that way it works on both ends of systems |
| 21:33.02 | smoke_ | is there a win32 binary for git-format-patch? |
| 21:33.24 | Shirik | you could not use git |
| 21:33.27 | Legorol | I'm not really defending Blizz nor saying that WoW can't have bugs |
| 21:33.28 | Shirik | you're probably better off |
| 21:33.36 | olafski | ok seems it wasn't carbonite :P |
| 21:33.42 | ZorbaGama | legorol, I'm not sure I buy that - texture usage alone isn't a huge issue as long as you don't oversaturate your GPU RAM |
| 21:33.44 | mitchnull | was it developed in vi or emacs? |
| 21:33.46 | Legorol | In my experience however, loading WoW on a PC is almost as good at stresstesing as running memtest and other similar apps ;) |
| 21:33.50 | ZorbaGama | and once you do that, you kill framerate anyway |
| 21:33.58 | olafski | my gf suggested I change my password |
| 21:34.08 | olafski | but when I go offline none of my other chars show up online so I doubt I'm haxed |
| 21:34.49 | Legorol | A perfect example is the checksum offloading mentioned a few lines above: I haven't encountered another application that triggered issues with network cards' checksum offloading (otherwise known as hardware checksuming) capabilities |
| 21:34.52 | olafski | I also replaced my network card :< |
| 21:34.53 | Shirik | when's the last time you changed your password? |
| 21:34.59 | NeoTron | olafski: remember, you get disconnected from the game as soon as someone opens your list of characters |
| 21:35.01 | Shirik | even if that's not the cause, it's probably a good idea anyway |
| 21:35.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Ose (n=chatzill@wikia/Ose) |
| 21:35.07 | NeoTron | olafski: the offender doesn't have to log in at all |
| 21:35.17 | ZorbaGama | legorol, I think WoW might "trigger more issues" by simple virtue of being installed in more places |
| 21:35.36 | ZorbaGama | you hit a 0.01% bug on most games, that's, what, a few dozen reports? you hit a 0.01% bug on WoW, you've got a thousand reports |
| 21:35.36 | durcyn | i'm pretty sure blizzard does stupid shit with their netcode too |
| 21:35.49 | Shirik | ok bbl |
| 21:36.06 | Legorol | that's a fair point, ZorbaGama |
| 21:36.24 | Legorol | but this does mean that it brings out the best (worst?) in a large number of PCs |
| 21:36.38 | olafski | I never changed my password shirik ;) |
| 21:36.49 | ZorbaGama | reproducibly, yeah. there's probably more data about bugs-in-WoW than any other game |
| 21:36.53 | olafski | also, I know that neotron but we waited a few minutes and no char popped up :) |
| 21:37.11 | Legorol | that's the thing ZorbaGama, many of these issues are not strictly attributable to WoW |
| 21:37.22 | Legorol | it's a bit like AddOn incompatiblity issues: it's not clearly one or the other addon's fault |
| 21:37.43 | Legorol | WoW might have a slightly poorly written code segment, and a piece of hardware may not quite follow the standards exactly, and boom you have a bug. |
| 21:38.23 | ZorbaGama | alright, issues-in-WoW ;) |
| 21:38.42 | Legorol | issues with WoW in combination with other faulty pieces ;) |
| 21:38.52 | Legorol | ofc there can be straight bugs too |
| 21:38.53 | ZorbaGama | issues that expose themselves in WoW ;) |
| 21:38.58 | Legorol | i likes that! |
| 21:39.19 | Legorol | as for the DC-on-login, i have a theory about that one |
| 21:39.29 | ZorbaGama | I think there's an argument to be made that a bug exists in whatever it's exhibited in, just because, in virtually all cases, it's that app's job to fix it anyway |
| 21:39.38 | Legorol | it'd be interesting (even though technically against the EULA) to packet sniff the traffic when you are logging in |
| 21:39.54 | Legorol | my suspicion is that WoW servers send info to the clients in very small chunks, even when there is a lot to send |
| 21:40.08 | Legorol | they tend to DC you when the client doesn't acknowledge all of them quickly enough |
| 21:40.15 | ZorbaGama | yeah, I've thought that also |
| 21:40.23 | ZorbaGama | it explains things like dalaran disconnection |
| 21:40.23 | Legorol | when you log into Dalaran, there is tons of info to send to the client |
| 21:40.26 | Legorol | yah |
| 21:40.38 | Jamie_^ | Lua question: if I have aTable with some booleans ranging from 1 to 100 (but many could be nil, including 1 or 100), would for i = 1, #aTable do ... iterate through all values, including those which are nil? And either way, will it reach the highest value if there are nil values between the previous and the max? (say 90 = true, 91 = nil, 100 = true) |
| 21:40.38 | Legorol | an interesting observation about Dalaran disconnects is that if you clear your Cache, you are much more likely to hit it |
| 21:41.02 | Legorol | similarly, i noticed on some PCs that there is a lot of HDD activity the first time you try to log in (as all the model/texture etc data is loaded), |
| 21:41.33 | Legorol | and the loading-from-HDD can't keep up with the rate at which the server is bombarding the client |
| 21:41.36 | Legorol | there may be a bottleneck somewhere in the parts responsible for loading graphics data that do it asynchronously |
| 21:41.52 | krka | Jamie_^: no, #aTable could return anything between 0 and 100 in that case |
| 21:41.56 | Legorol | that's why you can DC the first time you try to log in, but next time as some of the data is cached in RAM already, you won't |
| 21:42.00 | krka | you'd have to keep track of the size yourself |
| 21:42.08 | krka | or iterate using pairs instead |
| 21:42.14 | Jamie_^ | Alright, so the first nil is where it stops, I assume? |
| 21:42.20 | krka | not necessarily |
| 21:42.22 | ZorbaGama | jamie, it may stop there |
| 21:42.26 | krka | that's how ipairs works though |
| 21:42.36 | krka | read the #-definition in the manual |
| 21:42.38 | Legorol | Jamie_^: no, it's not guaranteed to stop at the first nil |
| 21:42.46 | Jamie_^ | Alright, will do. Thanks. |
| 21:42.52 | ZorbaGama | the strict definition of # is that it returns a value such that (myarray[#myarray] ~= nil and myarray[#myarray + 1] == nil) |
| 21:43.02 | Legorol | it may stop at any value for which the next value is a nil |
| 21:43.09 | krka | http://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/manual.html#2.5.5 |
| 21:43.10 | Legorol | what ZorbaGama said |
| 21:43.15 | ZorbaGama | (with a special case if myarray[1] is nil, it's allowed to return 0) |
| 21:43.20 | krka | there's the definition |
| 21:43.39 | krka | The length of a table t is defined to be any integer index n such that t[n] is not nil and t[n+1] is nil; moreover, if t[1] is nil, n can be zero. For a regular array, with non-nil values from 1 to a given n, its length is exactly that n, the index of its last value. If the array has "holes" (that is, nil values between other non-nil values), then #t can be any of the indices that directly precedes a nil value (that is, it |
| 21:43.39 | Jamie_^ | I see. So basically it's unreliable in such a case. |
| 21:43.44 | ZorbaGama | Yep. |
| 21:43.46 | krka | yes |
| 21:43.53 | krka | it's deterministic though :) |
| 21:44.05 | krka | for a specific lua implementation atleast |
| 21:44.30 | mitchnull | that's stupid desing |
| 21:44.55 | krka | you're a stupid desing |
| 21:45.01 | mitchnull | fu2 :) |
| 21:45.15 | krka | i assure you that the lua implementors have given this a great deal of thought |
| 21:45.21 | krka | probably more than you |
| 21:45.56 | mitchnull | surely more, even if it was "damn we fucked up, what should we do now? meh, just leave it in as it is" |
| 21:46.14 | ZorbaGama | one nice thing about its definition is that it could be tightened up to provide a stronger guarantee if necessary |
| 21:46.37 | ZorbaGama | the reason it's the way it is is efficiency, however - it provides an efficient easy-to-implement function that is sufficient for the vast, vast majority of cases |
| 21:46.38 | krka | LOTS of people have suggested other designs, but they've either been stupid or resulted in performance losses |
| 21:46.49 | ZorbaGama | especially if you're willing to tweak your design very slightly (i.e. usually nil can be replaced with false) |
| 21:47.03 | mitchnull | but in any case, just don't use # if you cans have holezes |
| 21:47.21 | krka | basically, if they would keep track of the largest index, you could create scenarios where it's damn expensive to determine the length |
| 21:47.44 | krka | i've considered these things myself, as I wrote my own implementation of lua |
| 21:48.33 | mitchnull | well, you do need linear search in either case |
| 21:49.00 | mitchnull | (unless you link all the holes, but that't be horrible in the long run I guess) |
| 21:54.50 | mitchnull | side note: the usability of # wouldn't be hurt (much) if it'd just return <undefined> (or -1) for tables with holes in them. any table that gets non-contignous (spelling) would just get marked "fsckd" and # would stop working on that (<undef> result, or even nil), pronto |
| 21:55.35 | mitchnull | I hope Torhal is wiping someplace |
| 21:56.10 | mitchnull | & |
| 21:57.35 | krka | mitchnull: #t is also used for the purpose "find me an empty index to insert stuff in" |
| 21:57.48 | krka | since #t + 1 is guaranteed to be empty |
| 21:59.24 | olafski | I believe the disconnection issue did not have to do with wow |
| 21:59.32 | olafski | I just got a ~12 second packet loss |
| 22:03.55 | mitchnull | krka: I'd be hard pressed to find a use case where that feature would be 1) useful and 2) the lack of it couldn't be pretty easily circumwented in user-code |
| 22:04.52 | mitchnull | but meh, it's the way it is. std::vector<bool> is a lot bigger fuckup, yet it's still around :) |
| 22:07.08 | mitchnull | I hate one stuff is essentially ready, but the cleanup to finish it up will take almost as much as getting to this point :( |
| 22:08.02 | mitchnull | adding localization entries, clean up debug code, some reorg to make code nicer... I should hire an intern ;) |
| 22:12.51 | ZorbaGama | I actually frequently use tables that have mass-data in contiguous integers and also some kind of tagged data with keys for indexes |
| 22:12.55 | ZorbaGama | # is nice on those 'cause it does the Right Thing |
| 22:15.19 | mitchnull | I don't see how # helps you there |
| 22:17.46 | *** join/#wowuidev robo\afk (n=robotusc@50A2DA6F.flatrate.dk) |
| 22:22.14 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: lol |
| 22:22.19 | Shirik | ? |
| 22:22.42 | ScytheBlade1 | your earlier ping |
| 22:22.55 | Shirik | remind me what it was? |
| 22:22.56 | ScytheBlade1 | ~1h ago |
| 22:23.01 | ScytheBlade1 | full disclosure email |
| 22:23.04 | Shirik | oh |
| 22:23.05 | Shirik | yes |
| 22:23.06 | cog|work | FU microsoft |
| 22:23.24 | Shirik | mstsc |
| 22:23.26 | ScytheBlade1 | cog|work: ~agree |
| 22:23.29 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: wrong window |
| 22:23.34 | Shirik | I NOTICED TY |
| 22:23.38 | ScytheBlade1 | YW |
| 22:23.40 | ScytheBlade1 | also |
| 22:23.40 | cog|work | "Hey MSDN subscribers come get free e-learning!!" log into elearning site... oooh look at the swirling green dots |
| 22:23.43 | ScytheBlade1 | mstsc /v:hostname |
| 22:23.44 | ScytheBlade1 | Is win |
| 22:23.52 | Shirik | cog|work: on IE? |
| 22:23.55 | cog|work | no |
| 22:24.08 | Shirik | I get that a lot on other browsers |
| 22:24.09 | Shirik | try IE |
| 22:24.19 | cog|work | FU microsoft |
| 22:24.29 | Shirik | they are very good at "breaking" other browsers (read: using non-standard functionality) |
| 22:24.58 | cog|work | that's fine |
| 22:25.18 | cog|work | but they could at least give me a "lol go use our piece of shit browser instead of this shiny new modern one" |
| 22:25.21 | cog|work | message |
| 22:25.40 | Shirik | no, because then it would look like they're intentionally forcing you to |
| 22:25.51 | Shirik | instead of leaving it up to the intelligent people to figure out they're intentionally doing it |
| 22:27.06 | Jerub | http://bit.ly/3rWiMM |
| 22:28.36 | cog|work | >< |
| 22:29.47 | Jerub | what's a reasonable fee to charge for crafting a toc pattern? |
| 22:30.01 | ScytheBlade1 | Eleventy billion gold |
| 22:30.06 | Jerub | i had someone QQ last night when i told him upfront i was charging 300g |
| 22:30.22 | Jerub | "i'm not paying 300g so you can sit there and do 2 seconds work" was his QQ |
| 22:30.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide- (n=Cide@h238n1-far-gr100.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 22:30.25 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
| 22:30.50 | Jerub | i didn't think it was unreasonable. |
| 22:31.08 | NightHawkTheSane | depending on rarity, 300 is very reasonable |
| 22:31.20 | ScytheBlade1 | Remind him that it took more than 2 seconds to obtain the pattern, and if that fails, ignore! |
| 22:31.28 | Jerub | i did just ignore him. |
| 22:31.48 | Jerub | it takes hours of advertising to even get someone who wants to get something crafted ffs |
| 22:31.56 | Jerub | and then half the time it's a leg armor |
| 22:32.04 | NightHawkTheSane | actually, i'd be less tactful. i'd say "lets see your sorry ass level up [profession] and run [totc] until you get it. It's 500g for you know, pay up or gtfo." |
| 22:32.21 | NightHawkTheSane | s/know/now/ |
| 22:32.38 | Jamie_^ | Quickie: is not nil = true? |
| 22:33.00 | cog|work | lua> not nil == true |
| 22:33.01 | lua_bot | cog|work: true |
| 22:33.02 | NightHawkTheSane | lua> not nil == true |
| 22:33.03 | lua_bot | NightHawkTheSane: true |
| 22:33.15 | NightHawkTheSane | curses cog|work and his unbandaged fingers |
| 22:33.15 | Jerub | yeah, i ripped into someone who'd been pleading for a tailor for an hour on trade asking for the toc cloth caster wrists |
| 22:33.19 | Jamie_^ | I gota use that more :-). Thanks. |
| 22:33.25 | Jerub | after an hour he started offering a 50g tip |
| 22:33.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Trela (n=Alexia@pa-67-234-204-174.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 22:34.02 | Jerub | ... 50g tip for a pattern that costs 6000g to make andsells on the AH for 2000g |
| 22:34.20 | Trela | Fail professions. |
| 22:35.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=muffins@pool-72-84-246-12.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) |
| 22:37.44 | Ancu | ~seen warmexx |
| 22:37.48 | purl | i haven't seen 'warmexx', Ancu |
| 22:38.26 | Ancu | that took long enough...I thought it was quick... |
| 22:38.35 | Ancu | anyway, sup everyone? |
| 22:38.37 | Jamie_^ | It was quick, you were just lagging. |
| 22:39.03 | Ancu | probly, dialup |
| 22:39.11 | Ancu | got to love it |
| 22:39.22 | Jamie_^ | Ouch, really? How? Why? What? And no, it was actually just slow. |
| 22:40.16 | Ancu | yes. verry carefully. Because nothing else is available. And yes, Dialup. |
| 22:41.33 | ScytheBlade1 | anyone who cares... worstbuy has a droid preorder available now, with an *instant* $100 rebate as opposed to a $100 mail in rebate debit card and the chance that you won't land one |
| 22:41.37 | ScytheBlade1 | cog|work: ^ |
| 22:41.39 | ScytheBlade1 | that said... afk worstbuy =[ |
| 22:43.02 | NightHawkTheSane | ScytheBlade1: wtb droid not on verizon. :( |
| 22:43.09 | Shirik | tcpdump ftw |
| 22:43.19 | Shirik | tcpdump just found a flaw in my apache configuration |
| 22:43.21 | Shirik | epicness |
| 22:45.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Stew-a (n=Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 22:46.41 | cog|work | ScytheBlade1: how appropriate... I was just writing an e-mail saying i plan to stand in line Friday morning :> |
| 22:46.48 | cog|work | (to my coworkers) |
| 22:46.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Doow (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/doow) |
| 22:47.11 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: what was the flaw? |
| 22:47.16 | mitchnull | standing in line is for losers |
| 22:47.21 | cog|work | mitchnull: =D |
| 22:47.33 | Shirik | my ProxyPass directive had some extra junk at the end of the redirect location |
| 22:47.38 | cog|work | actually, since i already have verizon, would it even work for me to order it through worstbuy? |
| 22:48.13 | Shirik | yes, cog|work, they're authorized dealers of verizon |
| 22:49.03 | cog|work | ScytheBlade1: do you have a link? worstbuy's search isn't coming up with anything |
| 22:49.08 | Ancu | So what are the 3 addons you cant live without |
| 22:49.18 | Ancu | This is an open question |
| 22:49.18 | Shirik | generally it helps if you use the appropriate name in the URL, cog|work |
| 22:50.11 | cog|work | ~poke Shirik |
| 22:50.12 | purl | ACTION cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind Shirik, pokes Shirik repeatedly, hilarity ensues. |
| 22:50.41 | *** join/#wowuidev soufron (n=soufron@vol75-1-81-57-79-123.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 22:51.15 | cog|work | oooooh... i have to actually go into best buy to preorder... dur |
| 22:52.28 | Shirik | what you trying to do? |
| 22:52.34 | cog|work | order online... |
| 22:52.36 | NightHawkTheSane | hmm |
| 22:52.41 | cog|work | :P |
| 22:52.46 | NightHawkTheSane | might be able to import a gsm droid from europe.. |
| 22:52.51 | Shirik | order WHAT |
| 22:52.57 | cog|work | ~lart Shirik |
| 22:52.57 | purl | gives Shirik a good seeing to |
| 22:53.23 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR (n=doingwha@unaffiliated/dwsr) |
| 22:53.33 | DWSR | Anyone know what the stamina->health conversion is for a mage? |
| 22:53.41 | NightHawkTheSane | same as for everyone |
| 22:53.44 | NightHawkTheSane | 1->10 |
| 22:54.04 | NightHawkTheSane | (before talents/buffs, of course) |
| 22:54.29 | NightHawkTheSane | of which i dont think there are even any that affect that |
| 22:54.37 | Jamie_^ | There's kings |
| 22:54.44 | DWSR | Kings doesn't affect the conversion rate. |
| 22:54.49 | DWSR | Just gives you 10% more stamina. |
| 22:54.52 | Jamie_^ | Ah, right. Silly me. |
| 22:55.16 | Jerub | 8% if you're not with a pally |
| 22:55.52 | ZorbaGama | yeah, there's a lot of "increases stam by woop%" abilities, but nothing that makes each point of final stam more or less effective |
| 22:57.08 | Shirik | ............ |
| 22:57.12 | Shirik | my theorem prover is so broken |
| 22:57.16 | Jerub | between drums of forgotten kings and runescrolls of fortitude, i'm very happy |
| 22:57.21 | Shirik | I asked it to prove X+Y = Y+X |
| 22:57.29 | Shirik | it said "This simplifies to T. QED" |
| 22:57.32 | DWSR | and it failed. |
| 22:57.34 | DWSR | LOL |
| 22:58.02 | Shirik | exact quote: http://wowi.pastey.net/127534 |
| 22:58.29 | Tuller | I think the one way I can justify getting an android phone for myself if I force myself to develop for it, I think |
| 22:58.55 | DWSR | Shirik: Nice. |
| 22:58.59 | DWSR | Epoch fail? :) |
| 22:59.11 | Shirik | in fairness,it is meant to prove much more complex things |
| 22:59.27 | Ancu | I will ask again, open poll, what are the 3 addons you cant live without? |
| 22:59.54 | cbreak | I can live without all. Question is: want? |
| 23:00.17 | Shirik | Ancu, any time someone asks that they get murdered. Fair warning. |
| 23:00.23 | Jerub | Ancu: at 80? BadKitty and Healbot. |
| 23:00.35 | Jerub | before 80, QH |
| 23:00.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Thrae (n=generalm@pool-71-179-187-128.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) |
| 23:00.43 | cbreak | I'd miss ora2 and xperl |
| 23:01.01 | ZorbaGama | ancu, qh, bartender, pitbull. although in fairness qh is partially because I write it and would find it very hard to debug without running it. |
| 23:01.05 | Jamie_^ | BindPad, BindPad, Bindpad. |
| 23:01.06 | Ancu | shirik: Why do they get murdered? |
| 23:01.08 | NightHawkTheSane | i think the only addons i'd have real issues living without are grid and cliue. |
| 23:01.12 | NightHawkTheSane | clique* |
| 23:01.19 | Jamie_^ | Clique can be replaced with macros, though |
| 23:01.27 | NightHawkTheSane | true, but im not sure i have enough macro slots ;) |
| 23:01.31 | DWSR | before 80, QH, lightheaded. |
| 23:01.35 | Jamie_^ | Then you need BindPad ;). |
| 23:01.43 | DWSR | After 80, bartender, MSBT. |
| 23:01.43 | NightHawkTheSane | Jamie_^: why, when i could have clique? :P |
| 23:01.58 | Jamie_^ | Oh, indeed, I use Clique too. I just mean for macro slot issues. |
| 23:02.00 | Tuller | an aioi addon is something I requireish |
| 23:02.04 | *** join/#wowuidev dustice (n=dustin@wireless-128-62-83-151.public.utexas.edu) |
| 23:02.06 | Jamie_^ | (It's just nice and easy to configure) |
| 23:02.20 | ZorbaGama | dwsr, out of curiosity, what sort of things do you use lightheaded for? |
| 23:02.25 | Jerub | what's pitbull? |
| 23:02.25 | WobWork | before 80 Tourguide and LH |
| 23:02.29 | Jerub | oh, auctioneer. of course. |
| 23:02.30 | NightHawkTheSane | Jamie_^: i'd only have slot issues if i had to replace clique with macros, so :P |
| 23:02.38 | Jamie_^ | Alright, alright! |
| 23:02.46 | Ancu | I need QH, Cart, and any one bag addon |
| 23:02.52 | NightHawkTheSane | im sure bindpad is great, i just dont need it :) |
| 23:02.56 | WobWork | QH is a bit overkill for me, as I've done the quests so many times, I don't need the extra data |
| 23:03.14 | WobWork | if I'm in any way crafting, ReverseEngineering |
| 23:03.15 | DWSR | ZorbaGama: With mobs in multiple areas, I use it to find suggestions on the best area, or sometimes suggestions for quests that can be paired up with quests that I'm currently on. |
| 23:03.17 | NightHawkTheSane | Tuller: yeah, some inventory addon (baggins is my choice) would probably be next on the list |
| 23:03.18 | Jamie_^ | I mostly sing its praises because it handles every single one of my action binds. If it ever broke, I'd probably quit WoW. |
| 23:03.29 | smcn | oh yeah okay i was sitting here trying to think of one and couldn't until ancu mentioned a bag addon, if you took away baggins on any of my characters i would probably kill myself |
| 23:03.35 | mitchnull | Bartender, Bagnon (or possible some other decent bag addon), RangeDisplay :) |
| 23:03.42 | ZorbaGama | dwsr, alright, thanks :) |
| 23:03.43 | smcn | i have no idea where anything is in any of my bags |
| 23:03.58 | Jerub | i've never used a bag addon |
| 23:03.58 | WobWork | MrPlow =P development version |
| 23:04.06 | Jamie_^ | Genie's good, too. |
| 23:04.09 | WobWork | or Baggins |
| 23:04.10 | DWSR | ZorbaGama: I think those things are a bit beyond the current capacity of QH. |
| 23:04.19 | ZorbaGama | dwsr, it's true, but they give me an idea of what I need to work on |
| 23:04.26 | WobWork | although, I still have trouble trying to get unsoulbound items sorted in Baggins |
| 23:04.34 | Ancu | I use ArcInventory |
| 23:04.40 | cbreak | sanity |
| 23:04.42 | kdtresh|work | ai = ftw |
| 23:04.43 | NightHawkTheSane | WobWork: that is rather tricky. >< |
| 23:04.43 | WobWork | Clique |
| 23:04.51 | DWSR | ZorbaGama: QH does exactly what it's supposed to. I pair up the 3 (TT,QH,LH) them so that I never have to open a web browser for questing ever. |
| 23:04.55 | WobWork | NightHawkTheSane: yeah =( It'd be -really- nice though |
| 23:04.55 | Ancu | It creates virtual bags and sorts things amoungst them |
| 23:05.01 | ZorbaGama | dwsr, ah, but what QH is supposed to do is "make questing easier" |
| 23:05.03 | WobWork | Ancu: as does Baggins |
| 23:05.09 | ZorbaGama | if you need other UI mods to make it easier, QH isn't doing everything it could. |
| 23:05.10 | DWSR | ZorbaGama: And it does. :) |
| 23:05.10 | NightHawkTheSane | WobWork: you can get about 90% there if you're clever with your rules and sort orders |
| 23:05.16 | ZorbaGama | It could make it *even easier* ;) |
| 23:05.24 | Ancu | I never used baggins, only bagnon and ArcInventory |
| 23:05.31 | DWSR | ZorbaGama: But as I said, QH can't handle quests it doesn't know that I can receive yet. |
| 23:05.46 | DWSR | When I pick up that quest, I turn back to QH for the optimal route. |
| 23:05.47 | NightHawkTheSane | baggins is very close to the be-all end-all of bag mods. but it's a BEAST of an addon. |
| 23:05.55 | DWSR | NHTS: I like AI better, tbh. |
| 23:05.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Esamynn|Away (n=nnnnncha@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Esamynn) |
| 23:05.55 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Esamynn|Away] by ChanServ |
| 23:05.56 | ZorbaGama | Sure. But in the future, it *could*. |
| 23:05.56 | WobWork | ZorbaGama: I'm more of the "one small addon for the particular job" than the "uberaddon that does everything" |
| 23:06.13 | DWSR | ZorbaGama: Right, when we get the table of quest completion available to addon users. |
| 23:06.16 | ZorbaGama | wob, so am I, but I put QH in the (slightly-more-specific) category of "helps you organize all your objectives" |
| 23:06.21 | WobWork | cause there's very likely to be stuff I really don't need in the uberaddon |
| 23:06.26 | ZorbaGama | in this case, the objective is "level up fast" |
| 23:06.28 | NightHawkTheSane | DWSR: *nod* im not trying to say any one is better than another. |
| 23:06.38 | ZorbaGama | if dwsr is having to rely on other addons to level more quickly, that is, as far as I'm concerned, a hole in QH. |
| 23:06.41 | ZorbaGama | albeit a difficult one to fix. |
| 23:07.15 | DWSR | ZorbaGama: Aye, as I said, I'm not really blaming you. You're limited in what you can do, and as you don't/won't parse LH for comments, you'll never have quite the same amount of information. :) |
| 23:07.27 | ZorbaGama | well, in theory, I can get *more* information |
| 23:07.31 | mitchnull | goes back to investigate why bulk-enabling plugins don't work |
| 23:07.33 | ZorbaGama | since I don't have to rely on users explicitly noticing things |
| 23:07.49 | WobWork | ZorbaGama: honestly, I wouldn't put LH's functionality into QH |
| 23:07.51 | ZorbaGama | if I can teach QH to gather info on mob density and respawn rate, I can produce "you should go here to farm X" info for every mob in the game. |
| 23:07.53 | DWSR | ZorbaGama: If you get any more information into QH's database, it'll crash out my WoW on load. I'm riding the 2GB process memory limit pretty hard. |
| 23:08.02 | Ancu | Next patch, next patch. My only issue with QH will be fixed next patch. |
| 23:08.05 | ZorbaGama | dwsr, you'll be happy to know that I halved the database size in the last version. |
| 23:08.14 | ZorbaGama | Also, QH's database is actually shockingly small |
| 23:08.20 | ZorbaGama | even before halving it was only 3mb of data |
| 23:08.24 | DWSR | ZorbaGama: Right, but I'm using 250 addons. :) |
| 23:09.00 | Ancu | DWSR: your exagerating(sp) right? |
| 23:09.00 | batbot | Ancu, exaggerating. |
| 23:09.05 | DWSR | Ancu: No. |
| 23:09.18 | ZorbaGama | I've got 198 directories in AddOns |
| 23:09.25 | DWSR | I'm up around 350-400. |
| 23:09.34 | ZorbaGama | that converts to well under 198 actual addons, but I could see 250 actual addons. |
| 23:09.36 | DWSR | I'm not counting modules for stuff like DBM or Pitbull. |
| 23:09.38 | Ancu | 0_0 and I thought I had an overload of addons |
| 23:09.44 | ZorbaGama | I mean, a lot of mine are very small things that I rarely touch. |
| 23:09.56 | DWSR | aye, but when you do use them. |
| 23:09.58 | DWSR | They're fantastic. |
| 23:10.01 | ZorbaGama | yeah |
| 23:10.12 | ZorbaGama | or it's like, "this addons makes a button that I push once in a while and otherwise ignore" |
| 23:10.12 | DWSR | I really do need to go through and redo my UI and lighten it up a little bit. |
| 23:10.16 | Jerub | oh, DBM. I'm starting to think of that as part of wow ;) |
| 23:10.20 | WobWork | every now and again, I do an addon purge and start from scratch |
| 23:10.21 | Jerub | i forgot it was an addon |
| 23:10.22 | Ancu | I would like an addon that combines ArcInventory and Armory, |
| 23:10.29 | DWSR | It causes me server lag in 25m raids. |
| 23:10.56 | DWSR | I could probably start using Toad and pairing down the amount of stuff I have active at any one time. |
| 23:11.36 | Ancu | Anyone else use ACP? |
| 23:11.44 | DWSR | yes |
| 23:11.46 | Hjalte | Ancu: Can Armory show item counts in tooltip? That is a really nice feature of eg. BankItems. |
| 23:11.47 | DWSR | That's why I have Toad. |
| 23:12.08 | DWSR | Toad uses ACP to automatically detect what I'm doing and load an addon set based on it. |
| 23:12.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Ancu1 (n=c@ppp23.pm3-9.man-ch.nh.localnet.com) |
| 23:14.38 | Shirik | DWSR: Here is the real purpose of it |
| 23:14.42 | Ancu1 | Um, did anyone see my questions about ACP? Or did I get like temp kiked? |
| 23:14.45 | Shirik | and as you can see, it works quite well |
| 23:14.49 | ZorbaGama | are there any libraries that provide reliable addonmessage communication? |
| 23:14.58 | Shirik | http://wowi.pastey.net/127536 |
| 23:17.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Kody- (n=nope@dsl092-049-237.sfo4.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 23:17.30 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Kody-] by ChanServ |
| 23:17.33 | Ancu1 | ~google google WOW |
| 23:18.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Stew-a (n=Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 23:19.30 | Jamie_^ | Woohoo, finally finished this damned addon. |
| 23:19.37 | Jamie_^ | Well, "finished". It's releasable. |
| 23:20.14 | Ancu1 | What addon? |
| 23:20.50 | Jamie_^ | Something pretty simple in concept -- it alters the alpha of action buttons that are on cooldown. |
| 23:21.02 | Ancu1 | Jamie_^: What addon are you writing |
| 23:21.43 | Ancu | oh...why? |
| 23:22.22 | mitchnull | be less tempted to click on them? :) |
| 23:22.25 | Jamie_^ | To convert action bars into a decent cooldown tracker. I already use it as such, and "proper" cooldown tracking addons just don't cut it for a number of reasons. |
| 23:22.42 | kdtresh|work | the shadow "clock" isn't good enough? |
| 23:22.55 | Jamie_^ | You are kidding, right? :-) |
| 23:23.04 | mitchnull | or omnicc |
| 23:23.06 | kdtresh|work | maybe i just have low standards |
| 23:23.18 | Jamie_^ | I do use omnicc, however I find action bars become way too cluttered. |
| 23:23.31 | Jamie_^ | Really needs a combination of the two to work anyway :-) |
| 23:23.43 | Tuller | you know, I wrote something that did that one time |
| 23:23.58 | Jamie_^ | Really? Does it still work? |
| 23:24.19 | Thunder_Child | actually that would be interesting, fading for the action CD and a number overlay for the dot/hots CD |
| 23:24.29 | Thunder_Child | if it has one |
| 23:24.29 | Tuller | http://code.google.com/p/tullamods/source/browse/BuffMan/trunk/BuffMan/buffman.lua |
| 23:24.45 | Tuller | obviously it was something for buff durations |
| 23:25.03 | Jamie_^ | Ahh. |
| 23:25.07 | cog|work | <3 Cairenn |
| 23:25.13 | cog|work | whap! (ran into the door) |
| 23:25.15 | Cairenn | cog|work: <3 |
| 23:25.18 | Cairenn | heh, yeah |
| 23:25.26 | Cairenn | he really did, too |
| 23:25.42 | cog|work | our glutton kitteh is just like that |
| 23:25.42 | mitchnull | meh, have to reorg stuff for this bulk setting thing. need some fresh air |
| 23:26.20 | cog|work | agnostic kitteh is a bit more... civilized |
| 23:26.28 | Thunder_Child | http://gizmodo.com/5396123/own-your-own-starfleet-shuttle-simulator/gallery/ |
| 23:28.01 | cog|work | lulz @ '90s imacs |
| 23:29.05 | cog|work | wonders if there's an LCARS display for MS Surface... |
| 23:32.50 | ScytheBlade1 | cog|work: http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1631800 |
| 23:32.57 | Thunder_Child | but pointless w/o haptics cog|work |
| 23:36.07 | WobWork | agnostic kitteh? |
| 23:36.11 | ScytheBlade1 | cog|work: the part where worstbuy will be touching my vzw account frightens me.. but that is fixed easily enough online shortly afterwards |
| 23:36.14 | WobWork | Doesn't belive in Dog? |
| 23:36.45 | Bruners | what death knigh rune addons do people use now? |
| 23:37.03 | WobWork | I don't =\ |
| 23:38.14 | WobWork | rofl |
| 23:38.17 | WobWork | "McKenzie says that "unintentional hot tub-related injuries increased by 160 percent, from approximately 2,500 to more than 6,600 injuries per year" over the period 1990-2007. And that's just the unintentional ones." |
| 23:38.19 | DWSR | Bruners: I don't either. |
| 23:38.34 | DWSR | Bruners: I use a HUD, so that takes care of my runes for me. |
| 23:38.44 | DWSR | People who use dedicated rune mods are somewhat retarded, IMO. |
| 23:38.58 | WobWork | DWSR: that's a bit harsh |
| 23:39.04 | Bruners | so you are calling me retarded then |
| 23:39.05 | WobWork | they're good for learning how the rune power system works |
| 23:39.14 | WobWork | since it's an entirely new mechanic |
| 23:39.29 | WobWork | it takes some playing to get used to the rhythm |
| 23:39.31 | DWSR | WobWork: Right, but why not just go with a cooldown mod that will track everything? |
| 23:39.34 | Bruners | im talking about the 6 runes death knights have, and their cooldowns, not the runic power |
| 23:39.45 | DWSR | Bruners: Yes, so am I\ |
| 23:40.05 | WobWork | I'd think a cooldown mod that tracked runes as well as everything else would be very crowded |
| 23:40.18 | DWSR | WobWork: SexyCooldowns. Have a bar just for runes and another for everything else. |
| 23:40.26 | DWSR | FX can do it as well. |
| 23:40.42 | WobWork | Bruners: I used MagicRunes I think |
| 23:41.01 | WobWork | DWSR: A single bar cooldown won't help new DKs |
| 23:41.02 | Bruners | im using acherus at the moment but it sometimes fucks up on one of the blood runes |
| 23:41.17 | WobWork | since it's the fact that you have more than one rune for each type that's special |
| 23:41.18 | Bruners | as in not getting its cooldown or type |
| 23:42.01 | Bruners | the rune cooldowns are the only thing i look at really |
| 23:42.25 | DWSR | WobWork: Here's my logic: If you can't wrap your head around the rune system enough to notice that you have 2 runes of each type and that you only need 1 of any type to cast most (all?) spells requiring runes, you're retarded and probably using a rune mod. |
| 23:42.36 | DWSR | s/retarded/slightly retarded/ |
| 23:42.43 | WobWork | DWSR: Or have never played a DK before |
| 23:43.04 | WobWork | You can't tell me you grasped the whole concept of runes and blood runes right off the bat? |
| 23:43.14 | WobWork | Cause if you did, you probably need to get out a bit more |
| 23:43.23 | DWSR | Took me about 3 quests in until I got the rythym down, but yeah. |
| 23:43.27 | Bruners | no point wasting a death rune when you can wait 1 second and have a unholy rune ready |
| 23:43.30 | DWSR | It's not hard. |
| 23:43.57 | WobWork | There are no starter quests that gave you enough time to complete a single rotation =P |
| 23:44.11 | WobWork | since DKs are so OP at the beginning =P |
| 23:44.22 | Bruners | they just start with really good gear |
| 23:44.28 | DWSR | lol, I just grabbed like 5 mobs and went to town. |
| 23:44.33 | DWSR | It's not like they kill you easily. |
| 23:44.53 | DWSR | And if they do, you get insta-rezzed where you are. |
| 23:45.00 | Bruners | DWSR: let me see your superior hud with runes |
| 23:45.06 | WobWork | in any case, it's not retardedness, DWSR |
| 23:45.23 | WobWork | you're being somewhat of an elitist jerk about that =P |
| 23:45.34 | WobWork | and I'm not meaning that in the "omg cool theorycrafting" way |
| 23:45.55 | WobWork | every class requires some level of learning to master the mechanic |
| 23:46.02 | WobWork | and rune power mods help that |
| 23:46.19 | DWSR | WobWork: DKs are the only class with a seriously different feel, thanks to both RP and runes. |
| 23:46.21 | WobWork | I, for one, am totally for -any- tool that helps people learn how to DK better |
| 23:46.24 | mitchnull | besides, setting up a separate bar in sexycooldowns is not much different from using a dedicated rune addon now is it? (especially if one doesn't like the way sexycooldown does its stuff) |
| 23:46.30 | WobWork | cause I am sick to death of noobDKs |
| 23:46.30 | DWSR | WobWork: Everything else is just GCD capped. |
| 23:46.38 | DWSR | mitchnull: Yes, it is. |
| 23:46.46 | WobWork | cause ffs, argh dknoobs |
| 23:46.58 | DWSR | mitchnull: Because, when you go to track cooldowns of everything else, you don't have to install a seperate mod to do it. |
| 23:47.20 | WobWork | mitchnull: It's only in seeing how what runes are ready in comparison to all other runes |
| 23:47.28 | WobWork | rather than seeing what's on cooldown |
| 23:47.38 | WobWork | if, say, you need an unholy and a frost |
| 23:47.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@cpe-67-246-40-12.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 23:47.39 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 23:47.49 | WobWork | rather than seeing one unholy on cooldown |
| 23:47.49 | DWSR | My point is rune cooldown monitoring is way too specific for a mod, IMO, take a step back and just bring it to cooldown monitoring. |
| 23:47.59 | WobWork | and say oh, one left, plus I don't see a frost on cooldown |
| 23:48.17 | WobWork | you can see "oh two bars, one green and one blue ready" |
| 23:48.52 | WobWork | once you understand the rhythm of the rune cooldowns, you don't -need- the cooldown monitoring |
| 23:48.59 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 23:49.11 | WobWork | you'll instincitvely know what runes are available cause you have the timing down right |
| 23:49.32 | WobWork | but getting to that point requires practice, which is where the helper mods come in. |
| 23:49.33 | Bruners | http://tihlde.org/~lasseb/img/images/WoWScrnShot_102509_230344.jpg this is how i like them |
| 23:49.52 | Lopeppeppy | Hey, Cairenn, I found a new allergy! The adhesive on some bandaids I bought! |
| 23:50.00 | Cairenn | Lopeppeppy: fun |
| 23:50.07 | DWSR | Bruners: Yeah, but that can be achieved with SexyCooldowns. |
| 23:50.14 | DWSR | And you can scrap the extra mod you're loading. |
| 23:50.34 | DWSR | Also, why do you have party showing in a raid? Are you a tank? |
| 23:50.46 | Cairenn | Lopeppeppy: daughter has a problem where she can't wear bandages for more than a few hours or else the she gets what almost looks like burns under them |
| 23:50.54 | mitchnull | bruners: what exactly does that show? (I never played a dk, mind :) |
| 23:50.57 | DWSR | Not criticizing, just asking. |
| 23:51.15 | DWSR | mitchnull: Each rune's seperate cooldown. Look in between the target and player frames. |
| 23:51.24 | Bruners | DWSR: for no reason, just that i cant be arsed to add extra stupid code to hide the party in a raid |
| 23:51.26 | DWSR | 2 blood bars, 2 frost bars, 2 unholy bars. |
| 23:51.27 | WobWork | You can probably shrink your rune bars down a bit |
| 23:51.39 | DWSR | Bruners: You using Shadowed or oUF or something? |
| 23:51.45 | Bruners | DWSR: oUF |
| 23:51.53 | DWSR | Bruners: Because most UF mods I've seen have an option built in. |
| 23:51.58 | mitchnull | bruners: the vertical bars? what are the numbers in them? |
| 23:51.59 | WobWork | hehe not ouf =) |
| 23:52.07 | WobWork | mitchnull: cooldown time |
| 23:52.07 | DWSR | Yeah. |
| 23:52.17 | Bruners | well, im using my own layout and i havent bothered with adding that |
| 23:52.18 | DWSR | mitchnull: Time remaining in seconds on the cooldown. |
| 23:52.25 | Bruners | mitchnull: rune cooldowns |
| 23:52.25 | Lopeppeppy | Cairenn, that's exactly what mine looks like, 2nd degree burns with blisters. |
| 23:52.30 | Cairenn | yeah |
| 23:52.32 | mitchnull | ah, the smallish ones are hundredths of a sec? |
| 23:52.37 | DWSR | mitchnull: Yeah. |
| 23:52.45 | mitchnull | ah, that's what confused me |
| 23:52.54 | WobWork | heh, that's a bit unnecessary |
| 23:52.57 | Lopeppeppy | I've never had this happen before. *grumps* I have a minor-surgery site that needs to be covered... with what, pray tell, now that I'm all blisters? Meeeep! |
| 23:53.00 | Cairenn | Lopeppeppy: we've found /one/ type of bandage she can wear a little bit longer than others without as many problems |
| 23:53.01 | Lopeppeppy | But I do have to laugh a bit. |
| 23:53.04 | WobWork | there's a lot of padding built into DK rune cooldowns |
| 23:53.08 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 23:53.46 | Bruners | DWSR: acutally i did add that as some whinypants wanted it |
| 23:54.15 | DWSR | Bruners: Well, like I said, I can't see why you'd want that except if you were a tank or a healer. |
| 23:54.17 | Bruners | and that screenshot is the one i used for the addon screenshot |
| 23:54.25 | Cairenn | Lopeppeppy: try using regular gauze bandages and medical tape, that way you can make the covering larger and put the tape on different locations? |
| 23:54.34 | Cairenn | errr, gauze pads |
| 23:54.35 | WobWork | DWSR: I think he's referring to the microseconds |
| 23:54.53 | DWSR | WobWork: They definitely aren't microseconds. ;) |
| 23:54.56 | Cairenn | change it every so often, putting the tape in a different spot |
| 23:54.59 | DWSR | Micro is 10^-9. |
| 23:55.03 | WobWork | eh, thingamieseconds =P |
| 23:55.23 | DWSR | tbh, I'm waiting for hud to be done. |
| 23:55.27 | DWSR | Circular hud win. |
| 23:55.38 | WobWork | some moron kept me awake til 3am with a car alarm last night |
| 23:55.55 | WobWork | so I can't brain today, I has the dumb |
| 23:56.56 | Lopeppeppy | That's pretty much my plan, Cairenn. Wear turtlenecks and use huge gauze pads instead of the "knee/elbow" sized bandaids I was using (area is right around shoulder/neck). |
| 23:57.07 | Cairenn | ugh |
| 23:57.39 | Lopeppeppy | This is just too sexy for words. I had to take my cat to the vet, I'm trying not to itch out of my skin, he noticed, and I had to explain I just needed to get home and get a lot more benadryl into me. |
| 23:57.51 | Lopeppeppy | So now I'm running around all roman-toga style, rawr, come see! |
| 23:57.56 | Cairenn | rofl |
| 23:59.16 | Bruners | DWSR: i never liked HUD's |
| 23:59.32 | Antiarc | The only HUD I like is HUDMap :V |
| 23:59.38 | WobWork | this ^ |
| 23:59.54 | WobWork | although it really makes my eyes strain |
