| 00:00.27 | Sesshu | huh |
| 00:00.33 | Sesshu | every server is down |
| 00:00.36 | Sesshu | hm :| |
| 00:01.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Shadowed (n=outlaw@c-98-207-200-159.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 00:04.14 | clever | ScytheBlade1: ptr or normal? |
| 00:04.28 | Sesshu | normal |
| 00:04.29 | NightHawkTheSane | is it just me, or is steve balmer the 'crazy grampa' of the software industry? |
| 00:04.31 | Sesshu | ups |
| 00:04.33 | clever | baelgun is up |
| 00:05.34 | Sesshu | baelgun is a wow server? |
| 00:05.46 | clever | yes |
| 00:05.48 | Sesshu | ah |
| 00:05.53 | Sesshu | eu servers are down |
| 00:05.59 | clever | ah, i'm canada |
| 00:06.23 | Shirik | wtf http://www0.us.ioccc.org/2004/burley.c |
| 00:06.31 | Shirik | An entire program of 1 statement |
| 00:06.41 | Sesshu | he forgot the press tab |
| 00:08.42 | ajmitch | there is a lot of very unreadable code on that site, it's impressive what they can do with it |
| 00:08.46 | mikma | http://mikma.eu/wow/MyLittleButton.zip - http://mikma.eu/wow/WoWScrnShot_102209_195719.jpg <- it's the small frame over the ChatFrame :) |
| 00:09.25 | mikma | works with both specs, you just drag and drop the spell to slot and type in the target. after that clicking the target casts it to that person |
| 00:15.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Odlaw (i=ozzy@c-98-245-3-204.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 00:17.50 | Sesshu | i'm bored! |
| 00:18.30 | Sesshu | can'te develop my wow add on when my server is offlien :( |
| 00:18.43 | Sesshu | s/can'te/can't |
| 00:18.51 | Shirik | stop breaking the servers then |
| 00:19.33 | Sesshu | i did nothing!! |
| 00:19.52 | Sesshu | not my fault |
| 00:20.33 | Shirik | sure |
| 00:20.36 | Shirik | that's what they all say |
| 00:21.59 | clever | my addon hasnt broken anything:P |
| 00:22.49 | Shirik | you LIE |
| 00:24.43 | clever | only itself |
| 00:25.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (n=chatzill@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 00:28.14 | Sesshu | ohh i love x-mas jam in october |
| 00:37.47 | _rane | mikma: clicker! |
| 00:39.20 | bleeter | http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1414209&cid=29835259 |
| 00:49.14 | bleeter | WELL BLIZZ REMOVED THE SUGGESTION FOR OBSERVING ALLCAPS DAY |
| 00:49.20 | bleeter | WONDER IF THAT WS 'COZ I POSTED IT IN ALLCAPS |
| 00:50.13 | Sesshu | no they don't remove allcaps posts! |
| 00:50.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Hirsute (n=chatzill@lre-east-3-99.usahousing.utah.edu) |
| 00:51.06 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 00:51.06 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 00:51.30 | bleeter | IT WASN'T ALLCAPS |
| 00:51.40 | bleeter | THE URLS CITING ALLCAPS DAY WERE IN LOWERCASE |
| 00:52.33 | Sesshu | that could be a reason |
| 00:52.50 | Sesshu | they must be in uppercase too |
| 00:53.07 | bleeter | oO |
| 00:53.31 | Sesshu | s/o/O |
| 00:53.36 | Sesshu | :P |
| 00:55.51 | bleeter | QFT |
| 00:56.40 | Sesshu | Quantum field theory? |
| 00:57.23 | bleeter | QUITE FUCKING TRUE (OR IN POLITE CIRCLES, QUOTED FOR TRUTH) |
| 00:57.26 | bleeter | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=20677768381&sid=1 |
| 00:57.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Tepel (n=Tepel@cc624207-a.gorre1.fr.home.nl) |
| 00:59.12 | Sesshu | good idea |
| 00:59.39 | Sesshu | i would try that if my server would be online |
| 01:05.23 | cog|away | lunessa just got horseman's reins /clap |
| 01:05.33 | Hirsute | Hooray Lunessa! |
| 01:08.44 | NeoTron | bleeter: lol. Penguin mount |
| 01:08.53 | NeoTron | poor penguin, especially for taurens... |
| 01:09.12 | clever | that reminds me, some tiny dude just pulled out an elephant mount |
| 01:09.18 | Hirsute | Who'se mounting a penguin? |
| 01:09.18 | clever | how the hell did he fit that in his bag?:P |
| 01:11.52 | kd3 | meh; I've always treated it as "your mount's hiding behind trees while you're running around. you're only carrying a whistle" |
| 01:12.39 | tem | I hate faction champions so much |
| 01:12.47 | tem | so |
| 01:12.49 | tem | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:13.21 | Dagmar | They should animate running up to you like the tourney bitches do |
| 01:13.33 | clever | kd3: with the flying mounts, they can just swoop in and pick you up |
| 01:13.40 | clever | but that doesnt always work |
| 01:13.44 | Dagmar | ...and if your mount should trample a few gnomes to death along the way, well, life is dangerous for small people. |
| 01:13.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Shadowed (n=outlaw@98.207.200.159) |
| 01:16.46 | NightHawkTheSane | :o so, i used a bunch of pygmy oil and turned into a gnome |
| 01:17.09 | NightHawkTheSane | despite having a female model, i got the message "you have lost the title 'Matron Kybelis'" |
| 01:17.20 | NightHawkTheSane | and "You have earned the title 'Patron Kybelis'" |
| 01:17.22 | ZorbaBeta | hey neat, someone found a way to get a visual race change without even modifying any files |
| 01:17.43 | ZorbaBeta | nighthawk, the pygmy gnome is considered to be male. I get the same spam whenever I go into Brunnhildar, since you get turned into a female |
| 01:18.04 | NightHawkTheSane | ZorbaBeta: that makes sense, though because you get turned into a female, with a female model |
| 01:18.10 | NightHawkTheSane | i clearly have a female gnome model :P |
| 01:19.28 | ZorbaBeta | make a character with the desired race on the same server as the character you want to see raceswapped. select your main character on the login screen, then simultaneously click the desired-race character and hit enter |
| 01:19.49 | ZorbaBeta | it seems to start the login process before it changes characters, but it loads the race model based on the selected character |
| 01:19.56 | ZorbaBeta | (clientside visual only, obviously) |
| 01:20.00 | kd3 | oh wow, heh |
| 01:20.09 | NightHawkTheSane | thats a glitch :P |
| 01:20.32 | NightHawkTheSane | interesting though |
| 01:20.36 | NightHawkTheSane | i should try that to get a tauren rogue ;) |
| 01:21.05 | ZorbaBeta | people are posting screenshots of things like tauren mages and blood elf warriors dancing with Magni |
| 01:21.16 | NightHawkTheSane | nice |
| 01:21.18 | ZorbaBeta | (you can obviously "change" faction as well) |
| 01:21.28 | NightHawkTheSane | wonder how long till they fix that. |
| 01:21.41 | ZorbaBeta | it'd require a clientside patch, and I suspect it's not exactly high priority |
| 01:21.54 | ZorbaBeta | it does let you betatest a race swap if you weren't sure, though ;) |
| 01:22.26 | NightHawkTheSane | true |
| 01:29.00 | ZorbaBeta | http://img.waffleimages.com/fe47c10c1a1827f8e4aaefa9cfaccdd746f7e271/the_most_elegant_tank.jpg this is kinda fun |
| 01:44.02 | NightHawkTheSane | YOU'RE kind of fun |
| 01:44.41 | ZorbaBeta | your mom's kind of fun |
| 01:45.24 | Sesshu | lol |
| 01:45.34 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah, she is |
| 01:46.10 | Shirik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAiK1TDOAi4 lmao, probably nsfw |
| 01:47.33 | Shirik | in fact, definitely nsfw |
| 01:47.42 | *** join/#wowuidev JamesJr (n=jameswcr@68-118-5-053.dhcp.hlrg.nc.charter.com) |
| 01:48.00 | JamesJr | I have not played in about 2 months..i upgraded to battle.net like 5 months ago..how do i get the penguin?!?! |
| 01:48.15 | Shirik | because it's not November yet? |
| 01:49.03 | Dagmar | Uh... If you've not played in about two months and you're still not playing, good luck on getting the penguin |
| 01:49.11 | Dagmar | Otherwise, you've probably already got it in your mail. |
| 01:49.16 | Dagmar | Your in-game mail |
| 01:49.18 | Shirik | you should still get it |
| 01:49.27 | Shirik | until November |
| 01:49.32 | Dagmar | All the peopel I know who already converted have already gotten their penguin |
| 01:49.34 | JamesJr | i got it...i worried before checking, thinking it would have been deleted |
| 01:49.41 | Dagmar | lol |
| 01:49.46 | ZorbaBeta | I wonder if they'll ever rig up mailing BoA items between servers/factions |
| 01:49.53 | Dagmar | Sadly stuff they drop in the mailboxes seems to have no time limits |
| 01:51.35 | Dagmar | Hmm... Maybe working for a uni isn't as annoying as all that. With the discount I get W7 ultimate for $111 |
| 01:52.33 | ZorbaBeta | I also wish you could put lockboxes/junkboxes on the AH |
| 01:53.30 | Dagmar | How much do you want asians to annoy you with "exciting tells" about their "mystery boxes" in the ah |
| 01:54.42 | ZorbaBeta | dagmar, they'd have to be either with their contents revealed, or, more likely, just don't permit them to be put up if they're unlocked |
| 01:54.56 | ZorbaBeta | locked lockboxes/junkboxes only. |
| 01:55.10 | Dagmar | That would so trivialize raising lockpocking |
| 01:55.14 | Dagmar | er lockpicking |
| 01:55.23 | ZorbaBeta | yeah, that's sorta the point ;) |
| 01:55.35 | ZorbaBeta | and it would open a market for those. I know people who just vendor them because they can't be bothered to find a rogue |
| 01:55.54 | ZorbaBeta | (it's not like lockpicking is hard to raise anyway, it just takes some time) |
| 01:58.25 | *** part/#wowuidev JamesJr (n=jameswcr@68-118-5-053.dhcp.hlrg.nc.charter.com) |
| 01:59.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@124.170.157.210) |
| 01:59.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 02:01.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Chompers (n=Chomp@cpc3-cove11-2-0-cust846.3-1.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 02:01.29 | *** join/#wowuidev JamesJr (n=jameswcr@68-118-5-053.dhcp.hlrg.nc.charter.com) |
| 02:01.39 | JamesJr | WTH kind of penguin is that? Its ugly as shiznit |
| 02:03.11 | bleeter | WUT |
| 02:03.25 | JamesJr | Chilly, the penguin. |
| 02:04.32 | bleeter | WUT |
| 02:07.51 | *** part/#wowuidev JamesJr (n=jameswcr@68-118-5-053.dhcp.hlrg.nc.charter.com) |
| 02:08.58 | *** join/#wowuidev kdtresh (n=kdtresh@adsl-75-15-203-210.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:10.54 | Dagmar | What are you high? |
| 02:11.02 | NightHawkTheSane | i am. |
| 02:11.12 | Dagmar | Chilly is actually cute |
| 02:11.39 | Dagmar | The "other" penguins you find loitering on various snowbanks aren't far from being as ugly as the walruses |
| 02:18.08 | Wobin | http://redclifffilm.com/ |
| 02:18.22 | Wobin | You have to admit, John Woo can do ridiculously epic |
| 02:20.15 | Torhal | Heh |
| 02:20.18 | Torhal | http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1414209&cid=29835259 |
| 02:22.00 | bleeter | Wobin: western release has been cut to shreds http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Cliff_%28film%29#Western_release |
| 02:25.48 | Wobin | bleeter, I'm hoping for a non dubbed release =\ |
| 02:26.13 | Wobin | *fingers crossed* |
| 02:26.20 | Shirik | I'm confused |
| 02:26.25 | Shirik | Blizzard is allowing for race changes |
| 02:26.29 | Shirik | but says it's not available yet |
| 02:26.41 | Shirik | but you can do faction transfers, which necessarily have a race change operation |
| 02:27.09 | Shirik | I know I don't know internals, but still, it seems a bit odd |
| 02:28.02 | ckknight | Shirik: they implemented faction changes first, and if you change back, it goes back to your initial race |
| 02:28.20 | ckknight | they gotta transfer quests and the like |
| 02:28.24 | ckknight | maybe there's some issue |
| 02:28.28 | ckknight | or more likely, |
| 02:28.34 | ckknight | they can squeeze more money out this way |
| 02:29.20 | Shirik | I'm just saying there does't seem to be any additional work required |
| 02:29.21 | Shirik | seems odd |
| 02:30.09 | Wobin | still thinks there should be a discount on transfers on faction imbalanced servers |
| 02:30.19 | ckknight | I agree, WobWork |
| 02:30.21 | ckknight | wobin* |
| 02:31.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (n=Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:31.47 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 02:32.34 | Shirik | oh |
| 02:32.38 | Shirik | XNA is part of Visual Studio |
| 02:32.42 | Shirik | good thing I have Visual Studio lol |
| 02:34.12 | Shirik | btw Iriel I found out there is a lookahead capability in Lua's parser |
| 02:34.13 | Shirik | so |
| 02:34.18 | Shirik | it may not be as hard as I thought |
| 02:34.20 | Iriel | Ah, that helps |
| 02:34.22 | Iriel | indeed |
| 02:34.59 | clever | Wobin: but how do you know its imbalanced? |
| 02:36.24 | Wobin | clever, I -do- know, but Blizzard certainly does |
| 02:36.51 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR (n=doingwha@unaffiliated/dwsr) |
| 02:37.00 | DWSR | any demo locks in here? |
| 02:37.21 | ZorbaBeta | hah, I just vanished out of a fight at 1hp |
| 02:37.31 | Wobin | for instance, Proudmoore is about 2:1 |
| 02:37.36 | Wobin | http://www.warcraftrealms.com/realmstats.php?sort=server |
| 02:37.48 | ZorbaBeta | I suspect most of the realm stats pages are grossly incorrect |
| 02:38.01 | Wobin | how -grossly- though? |
| 02:38.19 | ZorbaBeta | well, considering that they frequently give vastly different numbers from each other, pretty grossly |
| 02:38.53 | ZorbaBeta | that said there are absolutely unbalanced servers, and blizzard absolutely knows about it (if they care) |
| 02:39.11 | Wobin | however, cross faction bg's give a good reflection on whether the ratio is correct or not |
| 02:39.13 | DWSR | If I could find a census addon that allowed *me* to choose when to take a census, I'd consider uploading data. |
| 02:39.21 | Wobin | especially before the WG changes were put into place |
| 02:39.36 | Wobin | and Proudmoore, for one, has far far more alliance than horde |
| 02:39.56 | Wobin | Easily noticed in For the Horde/For the Alliance |
| 02:40.13 | Wobin | FtH, we could get togther one raid, if at all |
| 02:40.26 | Wobin | Alliance however, could gather at least two 40mans to defend |
| 02:40.32 | Wobin | or to go FtA |
| 02:40.35 | DWSR | ZorbaBeta: Yeah, pretty grossly is probably fairly accurate. |
| 02:40.42 | mikma | wobin: so, whats the name of my addon? |
| 02:40.43 | DWSR | since I know Nazjatar is closer to 3:1 Horde:Alliance. |
| 02:40.50 | clever | DWSR: how do the census addons even upload it? |
| 02:40.52 | clever | addons shouldnt be able to upload |
| 02:40.58 | DWSR | they're not |
| 02:41.07 | Wobin | clever, go to that site and read the FAQ |
| 02:41.07 | DWSR | You have to upload the data manually, as with QH. |
| 02:41.13 | clever | ah |
| 02:41.16 | Dagmar | Astonishingly, non-jerkwad servers don't seem to have such an imbalance problem |
| 02:41.20 | Wobin | mikma, what does it do |
| 02:41.31 | DWSR | The problem with warcraftrealms is basically the addon they use constantly /who's zones. |
| 02:41.32 | Dagmar | ...which MIGHT be because we don't really give a crap if we're on the larger side or not. |
| 02:41.44 | Wobin | Dagmar, proudmoore isn't really a jerkwad server |
| 02:41.49 | ZorbaBeta | dagmar, you may have the cause and effect reversed :) |
| 02:41.50 | DWSR | Making it pretty much impossible for other addons to do anything with it. |
| 02:41.56 | Dagmar | Seems like the PvP people have _no_ problem changing sides, so long as it means they're on the winning one. |
| 02:42.03 | clever | Wobin: i can think of ways to fix that uploading problem |
| 02:42.14 | Wobin | clever, why are you telling me? =P |
| 02:42.26 | clever | Wobin: basicaly, the addon users talk to eachother (automaticaly) thru /t's and share the data |
| 02:42.35 | Wobin | clever, but... why? |
| 02:42.38 | ZorbaBeta | share the data with who exactly? |
| 02:42.41 | Wobin | it's a census program |
| 02:42.42 | mikma | wobin: http://mikma.eu/wow/WoWScrnShot_102209_195719.jpg that frame over the chat, drag a spell and write a name -> clicking the spell casts it to that person |
| 02:42.43 | clever | ZorbaBeta: eachother |
| 02:42.51 | clever | ZorbaBeta: so that every user has highly acurate data |
| 02:42.53 | Wobin | but... why? |
| 02:42.55 | ZorbaBeta | what good does that do if you want it to be posted on a website? |
| 02:43.04 | clever | ZorbaBeta: then only 1 person has to upload that data |
| 02:43.06 | Wobin | and that only gives you information about your own faction |
| 02:43.07 | ZorbaBeta | also what in the bloody hell makes you think that that would lead to any sort of accuracy? |
| 02:43.15 | clever | and it will contain a summary of every other user |
| 02:43.17 | Wobin | since everyone has access to the same data |
| 02:43.17 | mikma | wobin: so i dont have to edit my macro over and over |
| 02:43.25 | ZorbaBeta | I already know people who are intentionally polluting the gearscore shared database |
| 02:43.40 | clever | ZorbaBeta: instead of only getting 10% of the data(less people uploading), you can get 100% of the data, since they all share with eachother |
| 02:43.40 | DWSR | ZorbaBeta: "polluting"? |
| 02:43.40 | Dagmar | What's this addon again? I wanna see how long it takes to show up that there's one million black dwarves on Skywall |
| 02:43.42 | ZorbaBeta | distributed databases are not easy. distributed databases that are resilient to malicious users? oh man |
| 02:43.48 | Wobin | clever, Every Other User, has access to exactly the same data as -you- do |
| 02:43.55 | ZorbaBeta | dwsr, broadcasting fake data to other users |
| 02:43.57 | Wobin | argghgh |
| 02:43.57 | Dagmar | I'm thinking three days tops |
| 02:44.10 | DWSR | /sigh, WHY? |
| 02:44.18 | Wobin | clever, I think you do not understand the POINT of this addon |
| 02:44.19 | clever | Wobin: but is every other user on 24/7 to record it all day? |
| 02:44.21 | Dagmar | DWSR: For the sheer absurdity of it |
| 02:44.29 | ZorbaBeta | dwsr, because they hate gearscore and they're tired of it, so they're trying to make people stop using it. |
| 02:44.31 | DWSR | Just because you can doesn't mean you should. |
| 02:44.32 | ZorbaBeta | also, because it's hilarious. |
| 02:44.33 | Wobin | I don't -care- what data everyone -else- in my faction has |
| 02:44.43 | DWSR | GS is a good idea. |
| 02:44.45 | Wobin | clever, Are -you- on 24/7 to record data? |
| 02:44.53 | DWSR | Frankly, the inspect frame sucks. |
| 02:44.54 | Torhal | DWSR: It's a spammy piece of shit. |
| 02:44.56 | ZorbaBeta | "Yes, that main tank on the server? He is level 17. And a warlock. And wielding Twin Blades of Azzinoth . . . in every slot . . . including Tabard." |
| 02:44.57 | Wobin | if not, then who the fuck cares? |
| 02:45.02 | Dagmar | clever: You're gnomish engineering, aren't you |
| 02:45.03 | clever | Wobin: no, but if other users are on durring that time, they can fill the gaps, and then share |
| 02:45.12 | Dagmar | ZorbaBeta: lol |
| 02:45.17 | DWSR | Torhal: The idea, not the implementation. |
| 02:45.19 | clever | Dagmar: no, my gnome isnt an engineer |
| 02:45.19 | Wobin | clever, You've never ever actually applied a distributed DB before, have you? |
| 02:45.22 | Torhal | DWSR: Oh |
| 02:45.26 | Sesshu | yaa twin blades |
| 02:45.27 | DWSR | I agree the addon itself sucks, but I mean. |
| 02:45.36 | clever | Wobin: ive made several test DHT's with variable programing languages |
| 02:45.46 | Wobin | yes, but in real life |
| 02:45.50 | clever | ~20-30 nodes in total |
| 02:45.54 | DWSR | Inspect frame doesn't give you stats or anything. It would be nice if it did. |
| 02:46.02 | Wobin | because quite simply, the fact remains, people do not care |
| 02:46.06 | Dagmar | Yes. but none of those nodes were hell-bent on making you look like a fool. |
| 02:46.06 | ZorbaBeta | clever, how do they deal with malicious users or repeated data transfers? |
| 02:46.20 | ZorbaBeta | seriously I'm surprised I've never had to deal with malicious users on QH |
| 02:46.31 | clever | ZorbaBeta: it didnt have any malicious users, and it couldnt even store data:P |
| 02:46.31 | ZorbaBeta | but even basic data corruption and private servers gave me constant irritations for a while |
| 02:46.35 | Dagmar | ...and things like, virtualy "stalking" every Carbonite user in the zone simultaneously give me a real giggle |
| 02:46.36 | Wobin | and having info dumps of the entire faction online every few seconds is not conducive to smooth gameplay |
| 02:47.06 | Torhal | FPS-- |
| 02:47.06 | cog|away | is it just me or does richard stallman have a lot in common with michael moore? (minus the cash) |
| 02:47.07 | Wobin | cause how do you 'fill in the gaps' without knowing where the gaps are? |
| 02:47.21 | clever | about all it could do was find other nodes, and then find eachother thru those |
| 02:47.25 | Dagmar | cogwheel: Well, if you took _two_ Stallmans and glued them together |
| 02:47.35 | mikma | wobin: poopmaster |
| 02:47.36 | Wobin | Stallmen? |
| 02:47.38 | DWSR | Wobin: Easily? |
| 02:47.51 | Wobin | DWSR, efficiently? |
| 02:47.54 | DWSR | Fairly. |
| 02:47.56 | clever | Wobin: you could just do it once an hour |
| 02:48.05 | Wobin | clever, who's hour? |
| 02:48.07 | Torhal | ...which may be in the middle of a raid. |
| 02:48.11 | Torhal | FPS-- |
| 02:48.15 | ZorbaBeta | clever, also, it should be pointed out that the data build process on QH right now eats a quadcore system, with 4gb of RAM and about 10gb of temp data storage, for about eight hours. it's not really the kind of thing that can be done practically at runtime :) |
| 02:48.18 | Wobin | so every hour massive amounts of data start flowing around? |
| 02:48.24 | Dagmar | clever: 1. Users aren't that patient and 2. it's still a big waste of bandwidth |
| 02:48.25 | cogwheel | is talking about attitudes... |
| 02:48.40 | ZorbaBeta | cogwheel, they're both zealots |
| 02:48.46 | ZorbaBeta | zealots of every kind act roughly the same |
| 02:48.53 | clever | ZorbaBeta: ive done some route calculation stuff, and yes it is insanely hard on the cpu |
| 02:48.54 | cogwheel | true |
| 02:48.58 | clever | ZorbaBeta: are you pre-calcing it on the server? |
| 02:48.59 | DWSR | Wobin: On the first log in, you check to see if your database is up to date, probably something with the number of entries and average level of people in that database or something. Something that changes every time you update it. |
| 02:49.11 | ZorbaBeta | clever, no, routes are calculated on the clientside. it's the database that's done on the server |
| 02:49.13 | Wobin | DWSR, up to date? |
| 02:49.15 | DWSR | s/first/every/ |
| 02:49.16 | Wobin | Number of users? |
| 02:49.18 | Wobin | pft |
| 02:49.23 | Wobin | I log out, someone logs in |
| 02:49.27 | Wobin | we're both 80s |
| 02:49.28 | clever | ZorbaBeta: what is taking up all the cpu on the server, what general task? |
| 02:49.35 | DWSR | Wobin: I'm talking about people in the database, not people online. |
| 02:49.36 | Wobin | there, nothing has changed |
| 02:49.47 | Wobin | DWSR, The people -online- are what the DB is after |
| 02:49.54 | ZorbaBeta | processing 100gb of input data, which is kept around so changes in the game world and corrupted data can be dealt with properly ;) |
| 02:50.03 | ZorbaBeta | and compressing the data is a big chunk of it as well |
| 02:50.06 | Wobin | In reality, you don't -care- what your -own- faction numbers are |
| 02:50.13 | Wobin | cause you can -see- that by being online |
| 02:50.15 | DWSR | Wobin: So do a total level of everyone in the database. |
| 02:50.17 | Wobin | You care what the ratio is |
| 02:50.19 | clever | ZorbaBeta: what kind of processing, checking for duplicates and stuff? |
| 02:50.28 | Wobin | DWSR, Again, nothing changes |
| 02:50.32 | Wobin | because we're both 80s |
| 02:50.32 | DWSR | Wobin: Yes it does. |
| 02:50.42 | DWSR | Wobin: Right, but the database will HAVE you in it. |
| 02:50.58 | DWSR | 80 + 80 != 80. |
| 02:51.06 | Wobin | DWSR, Also, you realise you're using the /who interface for this? |
| 02:51.12 | Wobin | which is slow |
| 02:51.15 | Wobin | and throttled |
| 02:51.18 | DWSR | I'll get there in a second. |
| 02:51.21 | Wobin | and designed so deliberately |
| 02:51.21 | ZorbaBeta | clever, it's a huge, gigantic process. there's a lot of accumulation of frequencies, heuristics to combine "close-enough" items, heuristics to throw out "probably-not-valid" items |
| 02:51.33 | Wobin | and within said throttle frame, multiple people could log in and out |
| 02:51.36 | clever | ZorbaBeta: ah |
| 02:51.50 | ZorbaBeta | a bunch of pseudo-image-processing to figure out where creatures most likely are |
| 02:51.51 | DWSR | Wobin: I'm talking about trying to create a persistent database. |
| 02:52.00 | Wobin | DWSR, I'm talking about a census =P |
| 02:52.10 | Wobin | I don't give a shit about persistant DBs =P |
| 02:52.25 | DWSR | Wobin: A census generally includes EVERYONE in a country. |
| 02:52.28 | Wobin | We haven't gotten to the -point- of why you'd -want- a persistant DB |
| 02:52.33 | Wobin | DWSR, EXACTLY |
| 02:52.33 | DWSR | Not just those people who are awake at hour x during the day. |
| 02:52.50 | Wobin | You have -no- information about the other faction |
| 02:53.17 | clever | Wobin: youll need the same number of people on at the same times, to check the other faction |
| 02:53.33 | Wobin | clever, but you'll never see that data |
| 02:53.49 | clever | if the patern of uploads doesnt match, then there may be 10% missing on one side and 20% missing on the other |
| 02:54.08 | Wobin | clever, To be perfectly honest, the method used now, is frankly decent enough to get a relatively good picture |
| 02:54.36 | DWSR | Wobin: Not really.. =\ |
| 02:54.38 | Wobin | If we suddenly started applying a persistant DB across all factions, it would bring the game to a crawl due to massive info transmissions |
| 02:54.43 | DWSR | 1.2:1 is a good ratio. |
| 02:54.45 | DWSR | 3:1 is not. |
| 02:54.47 | Wobin | and I really don't care about that |
| 02:55.02 | DWSR | And I *know* that US-Nazjatar is at bare minimum 2:1. |
| 02:55.15 | Wobin | I want to play the game, I don't want my gameplay affected by something of this scope |
| 02:55.42 | NightHawkTheSane | DWSR: how do you know that? |
| 02:56.14 | DWSR | NHTS: because WG never has 120 vs. 120 |
| 02:56.20 | DWSR | Alliance always has Tenacity ~5 |
| 02:56.23 | Shirik | gah |
| 02:56.25 | Shirik | I'm close Iriel :( |
| 02:56.28 | Shirik | > ...[1] |
| 02:56.28 | Shirik | stdin:1: ']' expected near '1' |
| 02:56.34 | Shirik | it seems like ...[] is legal, lol |
| 02:56.39 | Wobin | also, take into account, there is -no- possible way to get an instant dump of all players on your faction |
| 02:56.46 | Wobin | all information is throttled |
| 02:56.54 | Wobin | and immediately out of date |
| 02:57.09 | Wobin | and if half the online population start using /who |
| 02:57.10 | DWSR | Wobin: If you have a number of people equal to the number of zones in the game on, then there is. |
| 02:57.26 | Wobin | DWSR, How the hell do you get that number? |
| 02:57.32 | Wobin | and what if the number of people is over 40? |
| 02:57.38 | clever | Wobin: thats another point where DHT type stuff can help |
| 02:57.42 | Wobin | Hi, Dalaran! |
| 02:57.57 | clever | Wobin: if every user co-operates (automaticaly), then only one (per faction) will run /who at any time |
| 02:58.12 | Wobin | and that person will be out of date as soon as they run it |
| 02:58.18 | clever | which could lessen the server load, and prevent 40 people doing /who at once |
| 02:58.42 | Wobin | and then we come down to the bare tacks of basic addon usage |
| 02:58.50 | clever | ? |
| 02:58.57 | Dagmar | clever: Let's just settle for saying this is a lot like most of your "ideas" in #MythTV-users |
| 02:59.00 | Wobin | -who- is going to do it out of the goodness of their hearts, that there will be sufficient people online at any one time to do it. |
| 02:59.19 | Wobin | Cause Users, unless it benefits them directly, "Don't Give A Shit" |
| 02:59.28 | kd3 | speaking of server load; has anyone written a 3.3 quest-history addon yet |
| 02:59.28 | kd3 | ? |
| 02:59.29 | Dagmar | You are just making the problem increasingly more complex without approaching an actual solution. |
| 02:59.57 | clever | Wobin: aslong as atleast 1 addon user is online at all times, it should in theory work |
| 03:00.12 | Wobin | clever, And how does this differ from the current implementation? |
| 03:00.14 | clever | Wobin: and it could also detect when thats false, because it comes up and cant find anybody else |
| 03:00.38 | clever | Wobin: from what i know, the current method needs every person with the census addon to upload, and atleast 1 to be online at all times |
| 03:00.39 | Wobin | cause one Census user online at any one time does EXACTLY THE SAME THING |
| 03:00.44 | ZorbaBeta | wobin, it's totally different! for one thing, it's *vastly* more complicated and resource-expensive |
| 03:00.52 | Wobin | ZorbaBeta, Oh, silly me |
| 03:00.58 | Dagmar | Yet it will never be able to tell when my client spews out completely fiction information because it amuses the hell out of me. |
| 03:00.59 | clever | Wobin: the basic idea of my method, was to solve it so only one of them has to actualy upload the data |
| 03:01.22 | Dagmar | ...and it doesn't solve the probblem of pointless database flogging caused by 100 people on the server running addons that do /who |
| 03:01.27 | clever | Dagmar: it could track how many other users are reporting the same stats, when they share&merge |
| 03:01.27 | ZorbaBeta | clever, so then you ask that person to upload, and he doesn't, because he's a dick |
| 03:01.28 | ZorbaBeta | now what? |
| 03:01.45 | kd3 | or, the DHT gets filled with bogus data |
| 03:01.46 | clever | ZorbaBeta: it only needs 1 of the users, and there could be 20 or 30 easily |
| 03:01.53 | Dagmar | clever: Which will be asymptotically approaching "never" |
| 03:01.55 | Wobin | As I've said before, clever, you've never actually managed a distributed DB in reality =P |
| 03:01.57 | ZorbaBeta | seriously, questhelper is constantly asking literally tens of thousands of people to upload data |
| 03:02.01 | ZorbaBeta | I get maybe 100 uploads per day, at most |
| 03:02.08 | ZorbaBeta | 1% uptake is *optimistic*. |
| 03:02.10 | Wobin | People Don't Give A Shit |
| 03:02.32 | clever | ZorbaBeta: but if the various QH users shared, then those 100 uploads, would contain the data of 10k users, and youll get alot more info |
| 03:02.44 | Wobin | oh god no |
| 03:02.46 | clever | best case scenario |
| 03:02.47 | ZorbaBeta | no, they wouldn't, because each file would be 50 megabytes and questhelper would be unusable and nobody would use it anymore. |
| 03:02.56 | Wobin | That would be -terrible- |
| 03:02.57 | kd3 | whee; addon channel spam |
| 03:02.58 | clever | you would need to add some sane limits to the thing |
| 03:03.02 | clever | so it doesnt do just that |
| 03:03.03 | Dagmar | clever: Not to mention making it impossible to distinguish _real_ information from information someone made up and fed to 50 other users |
| 03:03.06 | Wobin | like NOT AT ALL |
| 03:03.07 | ZorbaBeta | also it would be impossible to do because I suspect blizzard would object to me blasting terabytes back and forth across their servers. |
| 03:03.09 | Dagmar | clever: FAIL. |
| 03:03.22 | kd3 | isn't that what broke the living daylights out of that lootrating mod? |
| 03:03.31 | clever | Dagmar: track who originaly posted the info, and keep duplicate counts to see how many people claim the info is true |
| 03:03.41 | Dagmar | clever: Let me put this another way |
| 03:03.42 | Wobin | clever, Track? WHERE? |
| 03:03.43 | Dagmar | I'm evil. |
| 03:03.44 | kd3 | and the database usage explodes |
| 03:03.51 | Wobin | It's a DDB there is no central location! |
| 03:03.53 | Dagmar | I *can* and *will* f**k such a system up, just because I can. |
| 03:03.58 | clever | Wobin: client side, when you recieve data from xyz, tag it as being from 'xyz' |
| 03:04.04 | Dagmar | Your "solution" is failtacular. |
| 03:04.07 | kd3 | 23:03:43> kd3: and the database usage explodes |
| 03:04.09 | Dagmar | It will never work. |
| 03:04.14 | Dagmar | Period. |
| 03:04.17 | Wobin | clever, You do not understand the whole concept of data transfer using addon channels |
| 03:04.28 | Wobin | it's -not- efficient |
| 03:04.28 | ZorbaBeta | I mean, I'm going to buck the trend a little here and say that a distributed database *is* totally doable within WoW, and would even be useful for many applications |
| 03:04.31 | Wobin | it's not fast |
| 03:04.36 | ZorbaBeta | but for these, no, and no, respectively. |
| 03:04.38 | Wobin | and it causes some terrible lag |
| 03:04.59 | Wobin | also, it's against the Addon TOS =) |
| 03:04.59 | Dagmar | ZorbaBeta: Excepting applications where people care about the data |
| 03:05.06 | clever | it may not be able to get any useable bandwidth at 1 message per second |
| 03:05.09 | Wobin | So that pretty much nips it in the bud |
| 03:05.16 | ZorbaBeta | dagmar, disagree. a reliable distributed database is possible and secureable. |
| 03:05.25 | clever | Wobin: what part of the TOS is against that? |
| 03:05.26 | Dagmar | The key there being "secureable" |
| 03:05.28 | ZorbaBeta | I was pondering rigging one up for DKP, but decided I was lazy instead |
| 03:05.36 | Wobin | ZorbaBeta, It's more difficult to secure a DB when the addon itself has to be in plaintext |
| 03:05.37 | Dagmar | You would need an infrastructure to act as gatekeeper |
| 03:05.43 | ZorbaBeta | wobin, disagree *strongly* |
| 03:05.45 | Dagmar | Something outside of WoW, like CACert |
| 03:05.56 | ZorbaBeta | if that was true, open-source would be insecure |
| 03:06.08 | ZorbaBeta | and yet, openssh is probably one of the most impenetrable pieces of software out there |
| 03:06.08 | Dagmar | OpenSource has GNUPG. |
| 03:06.15 | kd3 | ...isn't the strength of PKI is the fact that we all know how it works? |
| 03:06.23 | Dagmar | ...and the core OpenSSH people are as paranoid as they come. |
| 03:06.23 | ZorbaBeta | leaving the addon plaintext has nothing whatsoever to do with security |
| 03:06.34 | A-KO | CAcert is win |
| 03:06.37 | ZorbaBeta | dagmar, one convenient fact about WoW is that you *do* have a known secure authenticated channel |
| 03:06.43 | ZorbaBeta | namely, "/tell bob hello it is me" |
| 03:06.51 | clever | yep |
| 03:06.51 | Dagmar | So what |
| 03:07.01 | ZorbaBeta | that means you don't need any sort of cert authority, which simplies the whole thing enormously |
| 03:07.04 | clever | and if bob starts spewing garbage data, and you actualy lable the data as him |
| 03:07.13 | clever | you can blacklist him at a later data (when detected) |
| 03:07.23 | ZorbaBeta | clever, true, but not immediately helpful for a distributed database |
| 03:07.23 | Dagmar | You still have to have some way to establish that "bob" is not really "mallory" who has been telling you he's "bob" for the last two weeks. |
| 03:07.35 | ZorbaBeta | since in that case, you have mallory saying "oh bob said this" |
| 03:07.46 | ZorbaBeta | dagmar, how could he be? he's Bob. You can't fake "/tell" froms. |
| 03:08.13 | ZorbaBeta | you get a message from Bob saying "hello I am bob, here is my public key", you know, 100% for sure, that it's Bob, since it's coming from Bob. |
| 03:08.27 | Wobin | You'd probably spend more time distributing blacklists than real info =P |
| 03:08.27 | Dagmar | ZorbaBeta: Very easily actually. Unless you know Bob from outside the game and can be sure it's him, you can't take data from just anyone |
| 03:08.27 | ZorbaBeta | you get a message from Mallory saying "i'm bob", you say "prove it, I've got bob's public key here". |
| 03:08.34 | ZorbaBeta | dagmar, but you're missing the point |
| 03:08.39 | ZorbaBeta | we don't care about someone's out-of-game identity |
| 03:08.43 | ZorbaBeta | we care about their ingame identity |
| 03:08.51 | Dagmar | Wobin: Mianly I think you'd want to distribute whitelist data |
| 03:09.08 | Dagmar | ...but it would still fail, and I think perhaps you're missing the real warning sign. |
| 03:09.14 | Dagmar | clever thinks it's a good idea. |
| 03:09.17 | ZorbaBeta | if Jeff and Jim decide to fake me out and claim that Jim is playing Arthaaas when in reality it's Jeff, that's fine, I simply don't care. It's Arthaaas that has DKP, not jeff or jim |
| 03:09.30 | clever | Dagmar: whitelist doesnt sound that good, since a large chunk of the users are probly not malicous |
| 03:09.33 | Wobin | whitelist data only really helps if you're on at the same time as the people who are whitelisted |
| 03:09.38 | Dagmar | Ask any of the ops in #MythTV-users if that by iself shoulnd't instill genuine fear in you |
| 03:09.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan@c-76-107-191-65.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 03:09.38 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 03:09.39 | clever | so you would have to whitelist a ton of users |
| 03:09.53 | ZorbaBeta | also you don't blacklist *or* whitelist, neither of those help. you just tag by user |
| 03:10.10 | clever | Dagmar: stop poisoning them about me, youve only seen a small part of what i say online |
| 03:10.10 | kd3 | which means the whitelist probably massively outsizes the data in the tables... |
| 03:10.13 | Wobin | ZorbaBeta, so there's no actual -merging- of data? |
| 03:10.17 | Dagmar | You could whitelist a ton of users, or you could blacklist an even larger and EVER CHANGING number of users as it's no trouble for someone to do a nick change or just load up a new toon |
| 03:10.20 | ZorbaBeta | toss in some permission levels and you're set. once you can reliably determine who generated info X, you're done with the hard part |
| 03:10.32 | ZorbaBeta | wobin, if I were to be doing this, all changes to the DB would be an "update/insert" operation |
| 03:10.32 | Wobin | ok |
| 03:10.39 | Wobin | now how do you detect a malicious user? |
| 03:10.42 | ZorbaBeta | or "increment" or "decrement", perhaps |
| 03:10.44 | ZorbaBeta | not "patch" |
| 03:10.46 | Dagmar | Wobin: Exactly. |
| 03:10.51 | clever | Wobin: data that isnt duplicated very much |
| 03:10.52 | ZorbaBeta | wobin, what form of malicious are you worrying about? |
| 03:10.58 | Wobin | for, say, a Census |
| 03:11.02 | clever | Wobin: if the data is real, then many users will claim it |
| 03:11.02 | ZorbaBeta | oh, I wouldn't |
| 03:11.05 | ZorbaBeta | I think a census is a horrible idea for this |
| 03:11.09 | ZorbaBeta | it's absolutely idiotic |
| 03:11.18 | ZorbaBeta | but for a DKP plugin, it's totally doable :) |
| 03:11.19 | Wobin | It's quite easy to maniupulate the data to fake it |
| 03:11.19 | Dagmar | clever: So your database has zero submissions. All new submissions are therefore rare and therefore untrustworthy. |
| 03:11.22 | clever | yeah, a census is just pumping out x data/hour, never ending |
| 03:11.37 | Wobin | which is how this whole conversation started =P |
| 03:11.44 | clever | Dagmar: but you store those untrusted bits of data |
| 03:11.48 | Dagmar | clever: Go read the Big Red Crypto book |
| 03:11.49 | clever | Dagmar: and wait until more users claim it |
| 03:11.53 | ZorbaBeta | I think "clever" is nuts and doesn't remotely understand the issues. *however*, the point I was making is that distributed databases *are* useful, and *can* be done within WoW correctly |
| 03:11.57 | clever | then you mark it as trustable |
| 03:12.00 | Wobin | and the whole argument being that a Census is a stupid addon to DDB |
| 03:12.01 | Dagmar | clever: and any possible way you can go from there, I can ruin your data |
| 03:12.06 | ZorbaBeta | despite how braindamaged his current appliaction of them is. |
| 03:12.17 | Dagmar | ZorbaBeta: Congratulations! |
| 03:12.25 | clever | Dagmar: you would need to upload the fake data from a large number of users |
| 03:12.42 | ZorbaBeta | clever, ten alts per account, baby |
| 03:12.46 | clever | and if i set that limit to 50, youll have to remake alot of characters to polute the system |
| 03:12.52 | Wobin | clever, Just take your code and replace all e's with a's in the names |
| 03:13.06 | Wobin | or subtract rand(4) from the levels |
| 03:13.10 | clever | and if i just add a level limit, where you have to be level 10 to post, those alt's are going to get mighty painfull |
| 03:13.17 | ZorbaBeta | also, are you going with one-degree-of-distributedness? |
| 03:13.26 | ZorbaBeta | or can Bob tell Carol about Alice's data? |
| 03:13.28 | Wobin | clever, All my alts are above level 10 |
| 03:13.30 | DWSR | What is the guild announce channel? |
| 03:13.38 | clever | ZorbaBeta: everybody will tell everybody about everything |
| 03:13.48 | clever | Wobin: yeah, but you dont have 50 of them on the same realm |
| 03:13.51 | Dagmar | clever: So again you're going to attempt a uselessly complex solution isntead of abandoning the fundamental flaws in favor of something built based on knowledge and reason |
| 03:13.56 | ZorbaBeta | ah, so, I tell you that a thousand users have said that Chillmaw is level 3 |
| 03:13.58 | ZorbaBeta | now what do you do? |
| 03:14.04 | clever | Wobin: and once i block list thost alts of yours, you would have to delete&remake to spam it more |
| 03:14.06 | kd3 | whee; and whoever wrote that mod gets nasty letters from blizz about bandwidth usage |
| 03:14.06 | Wobin | clever, I doubt you'll have 50 users of your addon on any one realm |
| 03:14.09 | Dagmar | AGAIN, go read Bruce big red crypto book. |
| 03:14.17 | Wobin | cause once again People Don't Care |
| 03:14.22 | Dagmar | Until then you are just fapping yourself |
| 03:14.27 | clever | Wobin: depends on what the limits are actualy set for, it was just a random number |
| 03:14.53 | Dagmar | clever: http://www.schneier.com/book-applied.html <-- get this and read it |
| 03:14.55 | kd3 | dwsr SendAddonMessage("prefix","text","GUILD")? |
| 03:14.57 | Dagmar | Stop making an ass of yourself. |
| 03:15.20 | Shirik | batrick: ping |
| 03:15.23 | ZorbaBeta | clever, still curious about the answer to my question. I report to you that a thousand users have told me (something blatantly incorrect) |
| 03:15.24 | Dagmar | You do not get to guess your way around issues of authentication, repudiation, anti-repudiation, etc. |
| 03:15.24 | ZorbaBeta | now what? |
| 03:15.33 | Wobin | Add-ons will perform no function which, in Blizzard Entertainment's sole discretion, negatively impacts the performance of the World of Warcraft realms or otherwise negatively affects the game for other players. For example, this includes but is not limited to excessive use of the chat system, unnecessary loading from the hard disk, and slow frame rates. |
| 03:15.36 | Wobin | ^ |
| 03:15.49 | Dagmar | These concepts have LONG since been formalized and broken down into simple stuff you have NO clue about. |
| 03:16.04 | clever | Wobin: it would need some throttling to not abuse the chat |
| 03:16.17 | Dagmar | clever: What would you do about how stupid it was |
| 03:16.18 | Wobin | clever, at which point it becomes useless |
| 03:16.24 | Dagmar | I don't think throttling will fix that |
| 03:16.34 | Wobin | because it doesn't reduce the amount of information being sent |
| 03:16.44 | ZorbaBeta | haha, I'm listening to Nightmare Before Christmas soundtrack while playing WoW. "The monsters are all missing, the nightmares can't be found!" Meanwhile I'm running in circles trying to find more damn Worgen for my quest |
| 03:16.46 | Wobin | So you now spend the whole of your online time being sent info |
| 03:16.50 | Wobin | and then you log out |
| 03:16.50 | Dagmar | Just assume up front that 1,000 people will be using it simultanously |
| 03:16.57 | Wobin | but the whole batch hasn't been finished |
| 03:17.06 | clever | ZorbaBeta: you could store the entire chain of who the data passed thru, so you know who the 'middle man' that is making up shit is |
| 03:17.13 | Wobin | so your data bracket is worthless |
| 03:17.16 | ZorbaBeta | clever, ooh, I like the way this is going |
| 03:17.19 | Dagmar | clever: I am telling you that no, you could never detect that. |
| 03:17.20 | ZorbaBeta | okay, you receive four different chains |
| 03:17.21 | kd3 | which just makes the chat throttling even worse |
| 03:17.27 | Dagmar | clever: Read the red book. |
| 03:17.30 | Wobin | ... |
| 03:17.33 | clever | Dagmar: i plan to |
| 03:17.37 | Dagmar | clever: There are techniques you do NOT know which solve this problem |
| 03:17.47 | Dagmar | Everything you're talking about here is just fail |
| 03:17.49 | ZorbaBeta | Alice->Bob->Carol->You, Alice->Jeff->You, Alice->Thomas->Jeff->Carol->You |
| 03:17.49 | Wobin | so in reality, I'm going to be recieving PeopleOnline! amount of data? |
| 03:17.54 | ZorbaBeta | All the numbers are different. |
| 03:17.57 | ZorbaBeta | Who's making up shit? |
| 03:18.18 | clever | ZorbaBeta: if they all report totaly different data, then 2 of them are making up shit and 1 isnt (best case) |
| 03:18.25 | ZorbaBeta | clever, I didn't say how many |
| 03:18.27 | ZorbaBeta | I said who |
| 03:18.56 | clever | until you get more copies of the 'real' data and can tell it appart from the 'made up shit', you cant begin work on that |
| 03:19.01 | Dagmar | clever: You don't know that any more than you know they're not ALL making up data |
| 03:19.10 | Wobin | clever, You'll -never- get enough copies while online |
| 03:19.18 | Wobin | because of the throttling =P |
| 03:19.18 | Dagmar | You can NOT make a determination of accuracy based on other questionable data. Period. |
| 03:19.23 | ZorbaBeta | Alright. Now you've got a *thousand* different trails, somehow. Go figure out an efficient way to store them, transmit them, and process them. |
| 03:19.25 | ZorbaBeta | Good luck! |
| 03:19.31 | Dagmar | The enemy can *ALWAYS* make up more crap |
| 03:19.33 | Wobin | and because of the throttling, you'll never actually get a full set of data =P |
| 03:19.39 | Wobin | so you have nothing to compare |
| 03:19.45 | clever | Wobin: that may be so, would need some actual work done on it to see which way it goes |
| 03:19.47 | Dagmar | ...especially with a hard upper limit on throughput of symbols. |
| 03:19.58 | ZorbaBeta | (fun fact: in my above example, there's only one malicious user :D) |
| 03:20.06 | Dagmar | It means it takes both a fixed and *small* number of people to screw up your plan. |
| 03:20.11 | Wobin | ZorbaBeta, It's that bitch Alice, isn't it? |
| 03:20.18 | Dagmar | So... go read the damn crypto book already and learn how to not suck |
| 03:20.24 | kd3 | I was going to go with that bastard 'You' |
| 03:20.28 | ZorbaBeta | wobin, might be. might not be! :D |
| 03:20.29 | Dagmar | It's not all about ciphertext. |
| 03:20.33 | Wobin | You bastard! |
| 03:20.48 | clever | ZorbaBeta: that one malicious user would have atleast 10 avatar names he is using (assuming no restarts), and it would just have to find&tag those as being common amoung the low ranking data |
| 03:21.06 | Dagmar | clever: No, it would only take ten malicious users |
| 03:21.09 | Dagmar | ...or less. |
| 03:21.14 | ZorbaBeta | clever, seriously, at this point you're making claims about an algorithm that you haven't yet devised |
| 03:21.23 | Wobin | or even concieved of clearly |
| 03:21.25 | Dagmar | ...which will never ever work. |
| 03:21.28 | ZorbaBeta | sit down and figure out exactly, in detail, how you'll deal with "malicious data". Give me a nailed-down algorithm. |
| 03:21.29 | Dagmar | EVER. |
| 03:21.33 | clever | ZorbaBeta: just explaining potential solutions for the algo to follow |
| 03:21.39 | ZorbaBeta | I will break its spine in front of you, and feast on its fluids. |
| 03:21.46 | Dagmar | No, you're just spinning crap into more crap. |
| 03:21.57 | Dagmar | This is utterly and completely the wrong approach to the problem. |
| 03:21.57 | Wobin | and yet you've still not solved the matter of never actually getting any full sets of data due to data throttling that is -required- |
| 03:22.00 | ZorbaBeta | clever, problem is, when you do that, you can "solve" problems that aren't solvable |
| 03:22.05 | Dagmar | Your "fixes" don't even address the actual problem ever. |
| 03:22.07 | ZorbaBeta | you can basically say "oh, the algorithm will just happen to do the right thing" |
| 03:22.19 | Wobin | "Sparkly Addon MAGIC" |
| 03:22.21 | clever | ZorbaBeta: i'll have to come back to you later if you want a full example |
| 03:22.30 | ZorbaBeta | you can give me two algorithms that are resistant to one attack and vulnerable to each other's, then swap back and forth between them as I try to demonstrate how flawed they both are. |
| 03:22.31 | Dagmar | clever: Go right ahead. |
| 03:22.40 | ZorbaBeta | (i've seen people do that many times) |
| 03:23.06 | Dagmar | clever: However, until you read that crypto book so that you can understand a few VERY SIMPLE CONCEPTS about how trust systems work, you're just wasting your time and his |
| 03:23.52 | clever | Dagmar: i plan to do that too |
| 03:23.52 | ZorbaBeta | dagmar, actually, it's somewhat productive for me - breaking shitty algorithms is good practice :) |
| 03:23.57 | Dagmar | I'd say the issue here is that the problem isn't being approached properly to begin with. |
| 03:24.21 | Dagmar | I dont' know whether that's a "shitty" algorithm as much as it is trying to use a hammer to screw in a lightbulb |
| 03:24.23 | DWSR | kd3: I don't get it? =\ |
| 03:24.26 | ZorbaBeta | honestly, the issue is that the problem doesn't really exist |
| 03:24.31 | ZorbaBeta | he's trying to solve a nonexistent issue |
| 03:24.40 | DWSR | kd3: There's an option for the "guild announce" channel in chat filters? Is that stuff like the gmotd? |
| 03:24.51 | ZorbaBeta | or, rather, trying to solve a barely-existing issue by turning it into a huge problem |
| 03:25.00 | Wobin | this ^ |
| 03:25.02 | Dagmar | ...which just makes it a bigger mess |
| 03:25.02 | kd3 | dwsr; oh, that. uhm... guildies logging in/out |
| 03:25.12 | Wobin | this is what I've been complaining about =P |
| 03:25.21 | DWSR | kd3: thought that was system messages? |
| 03:25.30 | ZorbaBeta | in effect there is a small bare spot on his lawn |
| 03:25.37 | ZorbaBeta | and his solution is to upend a horse manure cart on it. |
| 03:25.43 | Dagmar | heheh |
| 03:25.45 | kd3 | it appears as a system message, but if you turn off guild announces you don't get them |
| 03:25.49 | Wobin | ZorbaBeta, Multiple carts. |
| 03:25.51 | kd3 | is in a zerg channel on the ptr |
| 03:25.53 | Wobin | with shared horses |
| 03:25.54 | Dagmar | You sure it's not a truck full of green apples? |
| 03:25.58 | kd3 | it's the only way I stay sane |
| 03:26.01 | Dagmar | After all, they're green and the lawn is green. |
| 03:26.06 | kd3 | s/channel/guild/ |
| 03:26.28 | DWSR | kd3: zerg guild? |
| 03:26.29 | Dagmar | Now that the lawn is entirely green, the problem is solved! |
| 03:26.29 | DWSR | wtf? |
| 03:26.37 | kd3 | a guild that has open invites |
| 03:26.38 | Wobin | and the horses trample up the rest of the lawn while he's doing it =( |
| 03:26.43 | DWSR | ah |
| 03:26.47 | DWSR | yeah, can't imagine that. |
| 03:26.48 | Dagmar | DWSR: aka "cattle call" or "open guild" |
| 03:27.08 | Shirik | batrick: I'm having trouble working with check_match() in the parser when you get a chance |
| 03:27.26 | Dagmar | Apples, sod, turf, it's all the same when you only barely look at it from a half-mile off |
| 03:27.37 | Wobin | There are enough creepy unguilded players online without encouraging them to join your guild =P |
| 03:27.47 | *** join/#wowuidev vince` (i=vschiu@adsl-99-39-7-127.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:27.51 | DWSR | Holy shit. |
| 03:28.00 | DWSR | I just realized that faction changing makes so many achievements SO EASY. |
| 03:28.13 | Wobin | DWSR, the quests -count-? |
| 03:28.25 | Dagmar | hahah |
| 03:28.44 | Wobin | good for pets, probably |
| 03:28.47 | Dagmar | This may be one of the things they're working on that's taking so long |
| 03:29.15 | Arrowmaster | pets are easy |
| 03:29.22 | Arrowmaster | theres only one faction specific one |
| 03:29.25 | DWSR | Wobin: It makes pets easy, it also makes certain other achievements really easy, like Fishing Diplomat. |
| 03:29.39 | ZorbaBeta | honestly if someone needs to faction-change to get Fishing Diplomat |
| 03:29.39 | DWSR | Be horde, fish org, be alliance, fish sw. |
| 03:29.49 | NightHawkTheSane | fishing diplomat isnt terribly hard though |
| 03:29.50 | DWSR | ZorbaBeta: I'm not saying it's hard to do it without it. |
| 03:29.50 | ZorbaBeta | Fishing Diplomat is basically "corpse-run two or three times". |
| 03:29.51 | clever | Dagmar: what party of crypto do you think i dont understand? |
| 03:29.56 | clever | Dagmar: lets start there |
| 03:29.57 | ZorbaBeta | clever, *all of it* |
| 03:30.05 | Dagmar | clever: All of it. |
| 03:30.07 | Dagmar | Trust systems in general. |
| 03:30.27 | Wobin | ZorbaBeta, Old Crafty is a bastard for horde =( |
| 03:30.28 | Dagmar | Otherwise you would not even be ATTEMPTING to posit that you can extract valid data from a set of data that you have _zero_ knowledge about |
| 03:30.46 | clever | Dagmar: lets say i gave each computer in the cloud its own public/private key for signing outgoing messages |
| 03:30.58 | Wobin | who what, key? |
| 03:30.59 | Dagmar | You can _not_ assume that just because four our of five people recorded that Mob X is gay that they're playing for the other team. |
| 03:31.01 | clever | Dagmar: and that key was used across all accounts and avatars the pc had |
| 03:31.10 | Dagmar | All it means is that four out of five people _said_ Mob X is gay |
| 03:31.12 | ZorbaBeta | wobin, yeah, that's fair. I used the crocolisk bug to get Old Whatever in Orgrimmar |
| 03:31.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Sesshu| (n=Sesshu@ip-242-16.travedsl.de) |
| 03:31.24 | Wobin | ZorbaBeta, hehe same =) |
| 03:31.29 | clever | Dagmar: yes, thats obvious |
| 03:31.34 | Dagmar | clever: Who was CNN's man of the year |
| 03:31.42 | clever | Dagmar: it could be 4 people making up the same shit, and 1 truth |
| 03:31.42 | Wobin | ZorbaBeta, although that one is also easy if you take advantage of Wrathgate |
| 03:31.47 | Wobin | At least on a pvp level |
| 03:31.50 | Jerub | who cares about his sexual orientation? |
| 03:32.00 | ZorbaBeta | wobin, yeah, I did mine before Wrath came out |
| 03:32.03 | Wobin | Jerub, maybe he wants to ask him out |
| 03:32.13 | Jerub | Wobin: did you mean s/but/butt/? |
| 03:32.15 | kd3 | wobin; not any more. they fixed that |
| 03:32.17 | ZorbaBeta | (post-3.0, pre-Wrath) |
| 03:32.34 | Dagmar | clever: However, you can never say, and I mean NEVER EVER say that that data is trusted |
| 03:32.35 | Wobin | kd3, really? Org doesn't phase for alliance anymore |
| 03:32.36 | Wobin | ? |
| 03:32.45 | kd3 | it does; you can't fish in the phased water |
| 03:32.50 | Dagmar | You either have trust or you don't. You do not build a system based on approximating trust |
| 03:32.52 | Wobin | oh, interesting solution |
| 03:33.00 | clever | Dagmar: what if the local client (the person holding a portion of the db) encountered the same data? |
| 03:33.08 | clever | then it has a copy directly from the wow server |
| 03:33.10 | Dagmar | clever: What about it |
| 03:33.23 | clever | assuming wow itself isnt making up shit, you can verify it there |
| 03:33.40 | Dagmar | clever: MobInfo3 already keeps track of what you saw for your own lookin' at |
| 03:33.55 | Dagmar | What does it matter if what you have recorded matches what someone else reports? |
| 03:34.14 | clever | then you can increase your trust rating on the name that reported that |
| 03:34.21 | Dagmar | It in no way bears on the accuracy of data they report that you didn't personally validate. |
| 03:34.26 | clever | and trust data he reports, more then the other guy |
| 03:34.28 | Dagmar | No. That's not a trust system |
| 03:34.30 | Dagmar | That's a farce. |
| 03:34.47 | clever | it would force the 'bad guy' to include truth in his data |
| 03:34.52 | Dagmar | I can go and grab public data right now and feed you 99% accurate data, and then just make up the other one percent |
| 03:34.54 | clever | to increase his own score |
| 03:34.59 | clever | yeah |
| 03:35.00 | Dagmar | This does not solve the problem. |
| 03:35.08 | clever | he would have to insert 1% lies |
| 03:35.28 | Dagmar | You are attacking the wrong problem. |
| 03:35.29 | Dagmar | Period. |
| 03:35.29 | ZorbaBeta | I don't even know what problem he's trying to solve right now honestly |
| 03:35.29 | ZorbaBeta | what problem are you trying to solve? |
| 03:35.29 | Dagmar | You can not approximate this. |
| 03:35.29 | Wobin | hm |
| 03:35.29 | Wobin | http://www.visualaid-shop.com/index.php |
| 03:35.31 | Wobin | is a cool site |
| 03:35.32 | Dagmar | It's like approximating virginity, dumbass. |
| 03:35.37 | Wobin | but is anyone else -not- seeing any prices? |
| 03:35.46 | clever | what if there was a button right on the client side, to tell the addon 'this data is wrong', and then you privately blacklist that dude? |
| 03:35.47 | Dagmar | Someone's either had sex or they haven't. There's no "99% virgin" rating |
| 03:36.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Dolby (n=Dolby@MMOI/Administrator/Dolby) |
| 03:36.02 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Dolby] by ChanServ |
| 03:36.16 | ZorbaBeta | clever, what exactly is the application of this right now? :P |
| 03:36.24 | Wobin | ZorbaBeta, PONIES |
| 03:36.33 | Wobin | MUTANT PONIES |
| 03:36.36 | clever | ZorbaBeta: non-census stuff, like where an npc is or similar data |
| 03:36.38 | ZorbaBeta | oh shit distribuetd pony database |
| 03:36.46 | ZorbaBeta | patenting idea making billions |
| 03:36.49 | DWSR | Dagmar: http://thechronicleherald.ca/World/1146268.html |
| 03:36.52 | Dagmar | ZorbaBeta: Irritating the crap out of people who should really know better than to waste their time on the off chance that just once a year he might be right about somethign |
| 03:37.17 | DWSR | GHOSTCRAWLER PROMISED ME DIVINE EYE LAZERS. |
| 03:37.19 | ZorbaBeta | clever, the vast majority of people are not going to share the vast majority of data. when was the last time you visited Ulduman or Stranglethorn Vale? |
| 03:37.20 | Dagmar | Wobin: Select a size |
| 03:37.29 | clever | Dagmar: generaly, i seem to only ever be 'wrong' when talking to mythtv folks |
| 03:37.45 | Dagmar | clever: That's because you haven't been out of the house much |
| 03:38.00 | Dagmar | ...and you're just as damn stubborn in there. |
| 03:38.06 | Wobin | Dagmar, 1 item | &#;0.00 | Checkout |
| 03:38.09 | Wobin | =( |
| 03:38.10 | DWSR | That's what she said. |
| 03:38.15 | clever | Dagmar: you havent seen what i do outside of mythtv/freenode |
| 03:38.16 | Dagmar | Here, on this case, you are at least a magnitude or order more wrong than usual. |
| 03:38.24 | Dagmar | Wobin: It just worked for me |
| 03:38.37 | Dagmar | clever: I'm assuming it's smoking a lot of carpet fibers or something |
| 03:38.39 | Wobin | Dagmar, oh hm, I had to select a currency as well |
| 03:39.10 | DWSR | Dagmar: Aren't you approximating wrongness now? |
| 03:39.10 | Dagmar | clever: You've come up with enough fatally broken ideas in #MythTV-users I'm just expecting that it's something you're going to have to grow out of |
| 03:39.10 | clever | Dagmar: ive never done drugs or alcohol or cancer sticks |
| 03:39.33 | Dagmar | clever: you can get as mad about it as you like, but you are COMPLETELY wasting your time even thinking about this problem until you've read a good third to half of Schnier's book. |
| 03:39.55 | Dagmar | You have no clue what you're talking about, or even a clue about what said clue would look like if you saw it yet. |
| 03:40.04 | clever | Dagmar: and how would i proove that i understand the concepts in that book? |
| 03:40.11 | Wobin | applying them? |
| 03:40.14 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 03:40.21 | Dagmar | If you read the book, you wouldn't be trying to approximate a trust system. |
| 03:40.22 | DWSR | Unless you're trolling the whole channel. |
| 03:40.40 | Dagmar | You'd be _making_ a trust system and not a system that will always be "best guesses" |
| 03:40.44 | clever | Wobin: something that wont take that long, like a short quiz on the way a trust system works |
| 03:40.48 | ZorbaBeta | few things are more awesome than listing to Korn argue about how to kill Santa Claus in a hard rock musical soundtrack |
| 03:41.17 | Arrowmaster | ZorbaBeta: more details |
| 03:41.18 | Wobin | clever, which means nothing if you don't apply what you've learnt |
| 03:41.24 | Dagmar | clever: Okay. Go break an SSL site |
| 03:41.26 | Wobin | it just shows you can read |
| 03:41.44 | clever | it could include stuff similar to a 'key signing party', where you only trust&share people on your friends list ingame, or some secondary list within the addon |
| 03:41.54 | Wobin | will the party have cake? |
| 03:42.00 | Wobin | cause I won't come otherwise |
| 03:42.07 | clever | Dagmar: i would need to get a hash colision on the ssl cert, and create my own cert with the same hash |
| 03:42.14 | Sesshu | i want a cake |
| 03:42.16 | Dagmar | I think you've forgotten that spotting people who are simply mouthing buzzwords is something many of us make a living doing. |
| 03:42.30 | ZorbaBeta | arrowmaster, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rve7Po5aKFw |
| 03:42.34 | Dagmar | clever: Wrong on multiple coutns |
| 03:42.41 | Shirik | wow |
| 03:42.42 | Shirik | wtf |
| 03:42.45 | Dagmar | Go read the damn book. |
| 03:42.48 | Shirik | is Apple really that out of it? |
| 03:42.55 | Dagmar | I know you're literate and it won't take you more than a week |
| 03:42.55 | Shirik | Their commercial did these flashbacks |
| 03:43.08 | clever | Dagmar: i would need to obtain a full copy of the book first |
| 03:43.11 | Dagmar | ...and I swear to god it'll be useful information to know when you start having to seriously worry about the job market. |
| 03:43.18 | clever | Dagmar: the link you gave me costs 60$ |
| 03:43.20 | Shirik | "It's not gonna have any of the problems Vista had" ... "It's not gonna have any of the problems XP had" ... ME, 98, 95 |
| 03:43.24 | Shirik | and then they said "Windows 2" |
| 03:43.31 | Shirik | did they completely miss windows 3.1? |
| 03:43.40 | Shirik | who even used Windows 2 |
| 03:43.47 | Dagmar | clever: Gimme a minute and I'll see what I can suggest publicly |
| 03:43.59 | Sesshu | windows 2? |
| 03:44.08 | Wobin | hm, what's a traditional American Thanksgiving Potato dish? |
| 03:44.13 | DWSR | mashed? |
| 03:44.26 | Wobin | anything fancy? |
| 03:44.32 | ZorbaBeta | as mentioned, btw, key distribution is actually far easier in WoW than it is in the real world |
| 03:44.38 | Sesshu | is there a windows 1 too? |
| 03:44.45 | ZorbaBeta | (assuming we trust the Blizzard servers and protocol) |
| 03:44.55 | DWSR | ZorbaBeta: Is that due to the fact that you're building on top of Blizzard's trust protocol? |
| 03:45.02 | ZorbaBeta | dwsr, yeah |
| 03:45.06 | DWSR | see? |
| 03:45.09 | DWSR | I r so smrt. |
| 03:45.10 | batrick | wishes he could virtually stab every person that gets hung up on a processor's clock speed. |
| 03:45.24 | Dagmar | Bleh. |
| 03:45.34 | DWSR | s/virtually/actually/ |
| 03:45.35 | ZorbaBeta | things like "key signing parties" are pretty much unneeded within WoW |
| 03:45.38 | Dagmar | I thought at one point he made an etext version of it available but maybe I'm getting it confused with someone else |
| 03:45.56 | DWSR | Indeed. |
| 03:46.04 | DWSR | Since everyone's identity can be verified pretty easily./ |
| 03:46.20 | batrick | OMG THIS CORE I7 HAS LESS MGHZ THAN THE PENTIUM 4 LOLOL IT MUST BE SHIT |
| 03:46.34 | ZorbaBeta | man I want a MGHz processor |
| 03:46.36 | DWSR | batrick: megagigahurtz? |
| 03:46.41 | DWSR | lol ZorbaBeta |
| 03:46.47 | DWSR | I wsa just thinking that |
| 03:46.48 | clever | batrick: my 2.9ghz is worse then the 1.6ghz, which is worse then the other 1.6ghz |
| 03:46.51 | batrick | i was being childish |
| 03:46.52 | clever | batrick: hz isnt everything |
| 03:47.14 | batrick | clever: I was being facetious, since it wasn't obvious |
| 03:47.24 | clever | ZorbaBeta: you dont need actual keys, but you can have a list of avatar names that you trust |
| 03:47.30 | ScytheBlade1 | yay centos 5.4 |
| 03:47.33 | ScytheBlade1 | is pleased |
| 03:47.33 | Sesshu | hey 1 = mghz = 1000ghz right? |
| 03:47.37 | DWSR | batrick: It is obvious, clever's just the antinym(sp?) of his name |
| 03:47.38 | batbot | DWSR, antonym. |
| 03:47.49 | ZorbaBeta | clever, sure, but that breaks down when you start letting people do data transmission chains |
| 03:47.55 | clever | ZorbaBeta: since the wow server (3rd party) is prooving that the user behind 'bob' is the same one you trusted a week ago |
| 03:47.59 | DWSR | Sesshu: No. Mega is million. |
| 03:48.08 | ZorbaBeta | and also requires manual maintenance of the trust options, which is usually a bad idea |
| 03:48.10 | Arrowmaster | everybody knows the p4 does the least amount of work per hz than any other i386 or x86_64 processor in the past 15 years |
| 03:48.12 | Sesshu | oh |
| 03:48.17 | batrick | I've concluded that these people deserve their shitty overpriced phones that have OMG 1GHZ |
| 03:48.30 | clever | ZorbaBeta: you could only let the data pass a couple of hops thru the trust chain |
| 03:48.41 | Arrowmaster | batrick: what phone? |
| 03:48.42 | clever | so not every user has every peice of data, but they have more then before |
| 03:48.53 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: Things started going downhill when engineers stopped giving a damn how many cycles a given instruction takes to complete. ;) |
| 03:48.56 | batrick | Arrowmaster: http://phandroid.com/2009/10/22/motorola-droid-specs-pics-features-at-motorola-com/ |
| 03:48.56 | clever | would greatly reduce the bandwidth and storage needs |
| 03:49.00 | batrick | Arrowmaster: see the comments |
| 03:49.03 | DWSR | Dagmar: Indeed. |
| 03:49.09 | ZorbaBeta | clever, you're still doing patch solutions to a systematic problem. |
| 03:49.19 | batrick | Shirik: what's your problem with it |
| 03:49.36 | ZorbaBeta | I give you an objection, you specialcase it away |
| 03:49.42 | Shirik | batrick: see #lua |
| 03:49.50 | ZorbaBeta | I give you another nearly identical objection that dodges your first special case, you specialcase that one away |
| 03:49.52 | Dagmar | clever: Check your message window if you didn't already |
| 03:50.01 | ZorbaBeta | I give you a third objection, you specialcase *that one* |
| 03:50.23 | ZorbaBeta | I give you a new objection that occurs due to the interaction of your first three special cases, but now you've conveniently forgotten about them, so it works fine! or you specialcase it in a way that breaks one of the first three. or something. |
| 03:50.31 | *** join/#wowuidev dustice (n=dustin@rrcs-71-42-217-66.sw.biz.rr.com) |
| 03:50.39 | kd3 | whee; been too long since I've coded wow addons. froze the ui at the loading screen, my very first try |
| 03:50.53 | kd3 | go me |
| 03:51.14 | DWSR | kd3: Indeed. |
| 03:51.37 | DWSR | guyz. |
| 03:51.47 | DWSR | My cee pee you has more mega hurts than urs. |
| 03:52.10 | DWSR | It's even undercocked. |
| 03:52.15 | Sesshu | wow |
| 03:52.20 | kd3 | maybe trying to run a QueryQuestsCompleted() the instant I log in... not the best idea |
| 03:52.22 | NightHawkTheSane | graphic designers are hilarious sometimes: http://twitpic.com/mgvqm |
| 03:53.04 | Arrowmaster | batrick: its probably a verizon exclusive anyway which marks it as junk to me |
| 03:53.43 | Sesshu | (NightHawkTheSane): you see now where microsoft gets their ideas |
| 03:53.50 | Sesshu | -s |
| 03:53.51 | DWSR | Sesshu: Of course they do. |
| 03:53.59 | DWSR | It's better to buy out new ideas than innovate. |
| 03:54.05 | DWSR | s/better/easier/ |
| 03:55.54 | kd3 | yay, it works. 4381 lines of sv. now I know all of the quest IDs I've completed... |
| 03:55.56 | kd3 | now what? |
| 03:56.14 | NightHawkTheSane | buh, no spriest/boomkin in the raid. >< need to come up with 3% hit somewhere. faail. |
| 03:56.25 | DWSR | NHTS: Should have a hit set. |
| 03:56.31 | kd3 | putzes around with a quest database |
| 03:56.43 | DWSR | NHTS: Or offspec for +hit. |
| 03:56.50 | NightHawkTheSane | DWSR: i should, but i dont' resto's my main spec, so putting together a good offspec ele set is rough |
| 03:57.20 | DWSR | NHTS: Meh, if it's your offspec, then people shouldn't be too worried about your DPS. |
| 03:57.27 | DWSR | If you're ally, throw a drae in your group and gogo. |
| 03:57.41 | DWSR | I always gear for 3% hit and then no hit from raid. |
| 03:57.53 | NightHawkTheSane | i do on my mage |
| 03:58.08 | NightHawkTheSane | ill see how well i do without it. |
| 03:58.18 | batrick | Arrowmaster: why would you mark it as junk because of Verizon? |
| 03:58.20 | DWSR | Everyone who says "Gear for 4% hit from raid as ally" is fucking kidding themselves. |
| 03:58.33 | NightHawkTheSane | i can trade in the mark of the war prisoner instead of sundial of the exalted if need be |
| 03:58.44 | DWSR | NHTS: A good idea. |
| 03:58.58 | DWSR | 73 hit ought to cap you, iirc. |
| 03:59.05 | Arrowmaster | batrick: verizon doesnt use gsm thus its junk to me |
| 03:59.09 | NightHawkTheSane | .2% short |
| 03:59.09 | DWSR | or close enough, anyway. |
| 03:59.11 | NightHawkTheSane | but close enough |
| 03:59.17 | DWSR | NHTS: Just throw a drae in your group then |
| 03:59.22 | NightHawkTheSane | horde ;) |
| 03:59.27 | DWSR | Hit food? |
| 03:59.51 | NightHawkTheSane | oh snap, i forgot i had hit food. :P |
| 04:00.40 | DWSR | lol |
| 04:02.31 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan@c-76-107-191-65.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 04:02.31 | batrick | uh ok |
| 04:02.46 | batrick | it may be marketed in europe though |
| 04:02.57 | batrick | anyway, that's irrelevant to my ranting |
| 04:03.07 | batrick | (about clock speeds) |
| 04:03.55 | DWSR | Has Blizzard ever said anything about making it where pet related buffs (Soul Link, Master Demonologist, etc.) are still present on mounts? |
| 04:04.08 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 04:04.25 | DWSR | Is there some technical reason for that to not be the cast now? |
| 04:04.54 | kd3 | er, uh, crap. does table.sort() not handle nils well? |
| 04:05.11 | Arrowmaster | tables cant have nils |
| 04:05.27 | DWSR | kd3: Err, shouldn't it sort them all together, and probably first? |
| 04:05.28 | Arrowmaster | well they can but those are special situations |
| 04:05.38 | kd3 | looks at his sv and is confused |
| 04:07.15 | Duman | ooh, fancy maint. page |
| 04:07.59 | kd3 | all of the forums are down. hrm |
| 04:09.42 | cogwheel | lol rolled 96 against no one for horrific helm |
| 04:10.03 | cogwheel | rng you taunt me so |
| 04:11.40 | kd3 | http://wowi.pastey.net/126964 |
| 04:13.07 | kd3 | and refreshed to show more context |
| 04:14.06 | kd3 | so color me confused |
| 04:15.07 | kd3 | and the actual kd3.lua: http://wowi.pastey.net/126965 |
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| 04:17.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Kowski (n=ykow@pv130242.reshsg.uci.edu) |
| 04:18.00 | ZorbaBeta | kd3, it's probably keeping the first chunk in a flat table, and the second chunk in a hash table |
| 04:18.15 | ZorbaBeta | perhaps there's a large gap after 1085 |
| 04:19.42 | kd3 | nah, I see a 1090 |
| 04:20.05 | kd3 | through 1097... missing 98 and 99, then 1100... |
| 04:23.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (i=lolgourr@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 04:25.00 | ZorbaBeta | then perhaps it's just where the tools decided to put the break |
| 04:25.35 | NightHawkTheSane | hm, 4500 dps on jaraxxus.. not shabby |
| 04:26.09 | kd3 | ya; though I wonder why we're getting provided an explict list of the first ~1080 quests and just the 'true's above that... |
| 04:27.17 | ZorbaBeta | we're not, it's just an artifact of lua table storage |
| 04:28.13 | Arrowmaster | kd3: yeah the wow SV writer will cheat and put upto 3 nils in a row i think before switching from array mode to hash mode |
| 04:28.31 | Arrowmaster | or 4 i guess from your pastey |
| 04:31.21 | kd3 | probably a memory thing; there's a string of nils from 784 to 857 inclusive |
| 04:31.48 | Arrowmaster | wait how many in a row? |
| 04:31.58 | kd3 | however many that is |
| 04:32.01 | Arrowmaster | wow |
| 04:32.07 | Arrowmaster | thats really cheating then |
| 04:33.00 | Arrowmaster | apparently if you initalize the data in a table as an array its slightly faster to access than if you do it as a hash table in random order |
| 04:33.20 | Arrowmaster | which is why the sv writer tries to cheat like that i think |
| 04:35.37 | kd3 | arrow; inbox |
| 04:35.55 | Arrowmaster | which one? |
| 04:36.08 | kd3 | whichever one you gave me for interface diff usage |
| 04:36.22 | Arrowmaster | i still havent moved my mail over to this computer, so now i gota fire up rdp |
| 04:36.39 | kd3 | arrowmaster@ocsomething, I think |
| 04:36.44 | kd3 | tabs gmail back open |
| 04:36.56 | Dagmar | heheh |
| 04:37.36 | Arrowmaster | yeah i have one gmail.com address and the rest are either my own domains that domain which is owned by a friend |
| 04:38.12 | Arrowmaster | hmm downloading 500 emails from the pop server |
| 04:38.23 | kd3 | heh; oops |
| 04:38.35 | Arrowmaster | yeah i havent checked that one since the 6th |
| 04:38.45 | Arrowmaster | i know im bad |
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| 04:39.03 | kd3 | 500 emails in 17 days? geez, your spam is worse than mine |
| 04:39.24 | Fisker | slaps kd3 around a bit with a large trout |
| 04:40.02 | Bruners | http://www.break.com/index/kid-tests-new-taser-on-himself.html |
| 04:40.23 | Fisker | Bruners |
| 04:40.26 | Fisker | i'm your mother |
| 04:41.12 | Arrowmaster | boo my copy paste between computers isnt working |
| 04:42.23 | Bruners | Arrowmaster: did you copy it on one computer then went to the other one and tried to paste? |
| 04:42.35 | Arrowmaster | yes |
| 04:42.45 | Arrowmaster | because im using RDP |
| 04:43.06 | Fisker | you suck Arrowmaster |
| 04:43.09 | Bruners | :) |
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| 04:48.06 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 04:48.46 | Fisker | also you Cide |
| 04:48.53 | Cide | yes |
| 04:48.58 | Fisker | so you agree |
| 04:49.40 | Cide | yes |
| 04:49.56 | Fisker | nice |
| 04:56.53 | Shirik | Iriel: I'm curious for input |
| 04:57.06 | Shirik | batrick noted that the VARARG opcode currently says C = 0 always |
| 04:57.19 | Shirik | so he proposed that, instead of creating a new opcode, C = 1 when we are performing a list index |
| 04:57.28 | Shirik | A = destination, B = index |
| 04:57.33 | Shirik | well, stack index of index |
| 04:57.44 | Shirik | so we would do something like VARARG -1 -1 1 |
| 04:57.58 | Iriel | Hm, interesting -- not sure.. |
| 04:58.54 | Shirik | the changes to the parser were far less extensive than I expected :) |
| 04:58.55 | Shirik | already done |
| 04:58.59 | Shirik | now it's to the VM side |
| 05:00.15 | Jerub | and eventually, you'll arrive at something that works identically to how it did to begin with! |
| 05:10.43 | Fisker | slaps Shirik around a bit with a large trout |
| 05:18.21 | Fisker | slaps Jerub around a bit with a large trout |
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| 05:29.38 | Shirik | batrick / Iriel |
| 05:29.40 | Shirik | implementation question |
| 05:29.47 | Shirik | when ...[x] goes outside of the bounds of ... |
| 05:29.53 | Shirik | should it return nil or error? |
| 05:30.15 | Shirik | I was thinking nil |
| 05:30.21 | NightHawkTheSane | i would say nil |
| 05:30.28 | NightHawkTheSane | if you're going to treat it like a table access.. |
| 05:35.23 | Kraps | great post... i think http://www.mmo-champion.com/raids-dungeons/wth-is-with-blizz-with-welfare-epix-and-ez-raids/ |
| 05:35.51 | DWSR | 2 words: casual catering. |
| 05:36.38 | *** join/#wowuidev isman (n=drag@88.162.68.235) |
| 05:37.07 | NightHawkTheSane | or how about "making sure that most of the people who pay for the content actually fucking see it" |
| 05:38.07 | DWSR | NHTS: Tomato, tomahto. |
| 05:38.12 | DWSR | I don't see it as a bad thing. |
| 05:38.32 | DWSR | I also don't usually mean 'casual' negatively. |
| 05:38.44 | Kraps | THESE NEW RAIDS HAVE TO EZ EASY MODES, AND TOO HARD HARD MODES. |
| 05:38.46 | Shirik | it will cause people to leave |
| 05:38.53 | ZorbaBeta | haha, that's awesome |
| 05:38.56 | Shirik | sadly, more people will join |
| 05:39.07 | DWSR | Kraps: He does explain what he means, though |
| 05:39.09 | Shirik | so it is a sound marketing strategy |
| 05:39.12 | ZorbaBeta | translation: "Blizzard is terrible at balance! It should be balanced so that I can beat every boss, and nobody else can." |
| 05:39.18 | Shirik | oh wow Kraps |
| 05:39.18 | DWSR | It is pretty true that Blizzard keeps nerfing the hard modes. |
| 05:39.21 | Shirik | I'm glad I clicked that now, lol |
| 05:39.31 | Kraps | night |
| 05:39.36 | NightHawkTheSane | DWSR: neither do i, for eitther, as well |
| 05:39.38 | ZorbaBeta | yeah, I do agree that totc hard is perhaps not quite hard enough |
| 05:39.58 | ZorbaBeta | but I honestly think that blizzard is trying more and more stuff to get people into raiding, and totc is helping with that a lot |
| 05:39.58 | DWSR | Indeed. |
| 05:40.12 | DWSR | ZorbaBeta: While having the effect of pushing some people away from it. |
| 05:40.22 | ZorbaBeta | I don't think many people, though |
| 05:40.23 | DWSR | Trash is time to AFK, get a drink. |
| 05:40.23 | Jerub | man, the QQ is huge. |
| 05:40.35 | ZorbaBeta | the people who are being "pushed away" are those who will basically whine about anything that doesn't make them look awesome |
| 05:40.46 | Jerub | I love level 80. I log on, do a heroic dungeon or two, get pugged into 25ony or 25os, my guild does 10ulduar. |
| 05:40.49 | DWSR | ZorbaBeta: I can understand where their coming from. |
| 05:41.07 | Jerub | there's a heap of beautiful dungeons and I get to do some challenging fights. |
| 05:41.07 | ZorbaBeta | I've been saying since late BC that Blizzard should be adding new 5-mans in every tier of content, with better loot, and they're finally doing it. I think that's pretty unarguably a good thing. |
| 05:41.47 | ZorbaBeta | unless your position is "my gear was hard-won and I deserve to be on top forever due to my previous work", and I think that is clearly just a bogus argument. (I mean, see next expansion, for one thing) |
| 05:42.12 | Jerub | yeah |
| 05:42.16 | Jerub | give me 5mans anyday. |
| 05:42.17 | Wobin | ow |
| 05:42.24 | Wobin | $70 for the WoW programming book =( |
| 05:42.30 | Jerub | the difference for me between a 5man and a raid is mostly how long i have to wait at the stone before the damn thing starts. |
| 05:42.34 | Wobin | damn you australian book tax |
| 05:42.53 | DWSR | ZorbaBeta: I don't think that adding 5 man ToC was really neccessary. |
| 05:43.03 | DWSR | ZorbaBeta: I mean, changing everything to gropping conquest was good enoughu. |
| 05:43.12 | Jerub | DWSR: 5 man toc is AWESOME. it's a heroic that people can fail at. |
| 05:43.18 | DWSR | omg. >.< |
| 05:43.25 | Wobin | Or even $55 with the Border's discount =\ |
| 05:43.26 | ZorbaBeta | I do. It provides a source for loot that you can't get easily through badges (for example, good weapons) |
| 05:43.36 | Jerub | DWSR: which was really really necessery, because you had to be a real dipshit to not survive any of the other heroic dungeons. |
| 05:43.39 | DWSR | ZorbaBeta: That's the fault of the badge system though |
| 05:43.45 | ZorbaBeta | it's also new variety, and it's also harder - you *can't* step into htoc5 as a fresh lv80 |
| 05:43.47 | DWSR | Jerub: Yeah. |
| 05:43.53 | DWSR | ZorbaBeta: Yes you can. I've done it. Twice. |
| 05:44.06 | Jerub | i've done it too, but only with a massively geared group. |
| 05:44.10 | ZorbaBeta | dwsr, I suspect that a group of five new lv80s would have serious trouble |
| 05:44.17 | DWSR | ZorbaBeta: that's a different argument. |
| 05:44.25 | ZorbaBeta | anything besides that is you being carried, and obviously that can happen in any raid |
| 05:44.28 | DWSR | When do you *ever* get a group of 5 new level 80s on a mid-high pop server? |
| 05:44.36 | ZorbaBeta | you can carry a fresh lv80 through htoc25 if you really want to, it's just meaningless |
| 05:44.48 | Jerub | unless you have a defcapped tank, 3 dps that can together do >6k, and a healer who won't OOM on healing intensive fights, you can't do htoc. |
| 05:45.07 | DWSR | Jerub: yeah, but I did like ~1800 DPS fresh 80. |
| 05:45.12 | ZorbaBeta | in any case, it's a nongrindy source of good loot, it's new variety, it's a new challenge threshold. These are all very good things. |
| 05:45.15 | Wobin | 1) you'd want a defcapped tank for heroics full stop |
| 05:45.23 | Wobin | 2) anything from 1.6-2k is fine |
| 05:45.28 | ZorbaBeta | wobin, you'd be surprised what you can tank without def cap |
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| 05:45.42 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR2 (n=doingwha@24.114.252.240) |
| 05:45.45 | Wobin | ZorbaBeta, It ties into the "Can the healer not run out of mana" |
| 05:45.52 | Lukian | def cap is only 5.4% for heroics too |
| 05:45.54 | Wobin | which they're more likely with a nondefcapped tank |
| 05:45.54 | ZorbaBeta | True. |
| 05:46.17 | Jerub | Wobin: my threshhold for htoc is that the dps have to all be able to do 2k - otherwise the fights are too long and hard. |
| 05:46.28 | Wobin | unless you get Eadric |
| 05:46.30 | Jerub | Lukian: I think you mean 540. |
| 05:46.30 | Wobin | who is easysauce |
| 05:46.30 | DWSR2 | I think the only reason I really dislike TotCr is that it's not enough variety for an *entire* tier of gear. |
| 05:46.56 | Lukian | no, 5.4% ;p |
| 05:46.58 | ZorbaBeta | I don't really have a problem with a lack of variety, myself. all we really need is one item per spec per tier |
| 05:47.25 | DWSR | ZorbaBeta: I meant in terms of actual content. |
| 05:47.31 | ZorbaBeta | ah, fair enough |
| 05:47.38 | ZorbaBeta | yeah, it's not a huge amount of content. No argument there. |
| 05:47.39 | DWSR | It almost felt like someone watched "Gladiator" and decided it should be an instance. |
| 05:47.47 | DWSR | That's my biggest gripe. |
| 05:47.59 | Jerub | i'm with zorba on that. I want to be able to say, "druiddps/rogue ilvl 226 belt" instead of "the belt of eternal happiness and theft" and then look the minor differences in stats between that and the "girdle of stealing bread" |
| 05:48.45 | DWSR | Jerub: As a cloth wearer, I personally feel that Blizzard has itemized cloth terribly for locks. |
| 05:49.01 | DWSR | Jerub: I don't wear crit gear, i wear haste gear, which is not nearly as plentiful. |
| 05:49.13 | DWSR | Like I have 802 crit and ~450 haste. =\ |
| 05:49.40 | DWSR | I had more haste in T7.5 than I do now. |
| 05:50.07 | ZorbaBeta | a good chunk of Blizzard's game balance right now is providing suboptimal gear for certain classes and levels |
| 05:50.20 | ZorbaBeta | I think that's a terrible idea, personally, but I think they're improving it in Cataclysm |
| 05:50.23 | Jerub | ZorbaBeta: that's an interesting way of saying it ;) |
| 05:50.54 | ZorbaBeta | jerub, it's a very true thing, though :) look at how many boomkins are using cloth gear |
| 05:51.16 | ZorbaBeta | look at the effort they're going towards to keep platewearers in plate - entire talents that are basically "you get bonus AP in plate" |
| 05:51.19 | Jerub | yeah, even my tree was in cloth until he got his T8.5 chest |
| 05:51.37 | Wobin | I want panzerkin to be viable again! =) |
| 05:51.53 | Jerub | Wobin: panzerkin? |
| 05:51.57 | DWSR | ZorbaBeta: Huh, I suppose that, now that you mention it, it's true |
| 05:52.03 | Wobin | tanking boomkin =) |
| 05:52.20 | Jerub | tee hee |
| 05:52.28 | Jerub | they're /really/ trying to avoid that. |
| 05:52.39 | ZorbaBeta | in fact, here's something I absolutely love |
| 05:52.40 | Jerub | it'd be nice if it were easier to swap forms mid combat. |
| 05:52.54 | Wobin | define 'easier' |
| 05:52.55 | ZorbaBeta | you know how Blizzard itemization works? If you spread points among more stats, each point is cheaper |
| 05:53.04 | ZorbaBeta | now look at different physical-dps gear classes |
| 05:53.22 | ZorbaBeta | Plate: four stats, always. Leather: five stats, always. Mail: *six* stats, always. |
| 05:53.38 | ZorbaBeta | If they gave plate six stats, we'd absolutely blow mail and leatherusers out of the water in raw DPS. So they don't. |
| 05:53.51 | Jerub | what's cloth? |
| 05:53.59 | ZorbaBeta | jerub, find me a piece of physical DPS cloth and I'll tell you ;) |
| 05:54.10 | ZorbaBeta | (I don't know if you can compare sensibly across gear types) |
| 05:54.28 | Jerub | lol, right. |
| 05:54.42 | Shirik | Iriel: http://wowi.pastey.net/126971 |
| 05:54.47 | ZorbaBeta | If we could have full control over the itemization of our items, in all cases, warriors paladins and death knights would absolutely dominate the damage meters. |
| 05:55.00 | DWSR | ZorbaBeta: They're making that possible in Cata. |
| 05:55.12 | DWSR | Can't wait, tbh. |
| 05:55.30 | DWSR | I've always wondered why I can't interact with cloth gear in some special way as a tailor, for instance. |
| 05:55.33 | ZorbaBeta | Even as it is, with the edges we're given for using the "appropriate gear" and with how good strength is for us, leather and mail are *still* viable alternatives for us. That's how much raw stats they have piled into that gear. |
| 05:55.43 | ZorbaBeta | (I use mail shoulders on my warrior. I look hilarious.) |
| 05:55.53 | ZorbaBeta | dwsr, in some limited fashion, not overall. But yes, that's why I think they're evening things out a bit. |
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| 05:56.33 | *** join/#wowuidev stolen_|school (n=stolenle@193.170.222.163) |
| 05:56.43 | ZorbaBeta | although I'm going to be really curious to see how they make it work |
| 05:56.58 | DWSR | ZorbaBeta: I think that you should be able to repair your own gear. |
| 05:57.01 | ZorbaBeta | since turning half the stam into agi on plate DPS pieces would be a hell of a dps boost |
| 05:57.13 | ZorbaBeta | dwsr, I can, I just drop Jeeves or a repair bot and |
| 05:57.14 | ZorbaBeta | oh wait |
| 05:57.17 | ZorbaBeta | you mean for people who aren't engineers |
| 05:57.20 | ZorbaBeta | ;) |
| 05:57.21 | DWSR | Yes. |
| 05:57.51 | DWSR | You should be able to repair the gear for your specific profession |
| 05:57.53 | ZorbaBeta | honestly I don't see that as being a big issue. it's a mild irritant at best. they're certainly not going to remove the gold requirements, that's part of the economy balance |
| 05:58.20 | DWSR | ZorbaBeta: It could cost an equivalent or greater amount of thread? |
| 05:58.27 | DWSR | by amount I mean in terms of gold. |
| 05:58.51 | ZorbaBeta | yeah, it could, that's true |
| 05:58.58 | ZorbaBeta | and it would be niec to be able to carry "repair reagents" around |
| 05:59.11 | ZorbaBeta | you could even turn that into a crafting item, in fact |
| 05:59.24 | DWSR | reagent makes sense. |
| 05:59.25 | ZorbaBeta | turn 1.1g of thread into a repair kit that repairs 1g of gear |
| 05:59.32 | ZorbaBeta | (not soulbound) |
| 05:59.52 | ZorbaBeta | include the faction discount for repairing, but not for repair reagents, and that's actually not a bad game mechanic. |
| 06:01.06 | DWSR | well |
| 06:01.22 | DWSR | You'd get a discount on buying the mats for the repair kit |
| 06:02.02 | *** join/#wowuidev NeoTron (n=neotron@pool-173-64-144-162.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 06:02.10 | ZorbaBeta | I'm actually imagining a situation where you wouldn't - essentially, you get discount-price for repairing, you get no-discount-price for field repairs, and you get slightly-above-no-discount-price for sellable field repairs |
| 06:02.25 | ZorbaBeta | which gives you a nice set of price vs. convenience options. |
| 06:02.58 | Jerub | it'd be nice if they backported the changes to the crafting stuff back to the low level items. |
| 06:03.18 | Jerub | it's really annoying suddenly having to find a LW vendor so you can get thread for a low level item :/ |
| 06:03.25 | ZorbaBeta | jerub, amen |
| 06:03.34 | Jerub | they did it for cooking |
| 06:03.44 | Jerub | (thank god, I wasn't here for when you had to have cooking spices) |
| 06:03.47 | ZorbaBeta | or if they just made recipes start taking gold also, if they really want that gold sink |
| 06:04.00 | ZorbaBeta | "and 10 silver of materials (contained in your crafting kit)" |
| 06:04.09 | DWSR | tbh. |
| 06:04.12 | DWSR | Sewing kit for tailors. |
| 06:04.16 | DWSR | And then use the thread. |
| 06:04.44 | Dagmar | Soon inscriptionists will be making paper bags for steamed chicken recipes |
| 06:04.49 | Jerub | at least we have drums again |
| 06:05.06 | DWSR | drum of spirit should have been added.\ |
| 06:05.08 | DWSR | tbh |
| 06:05.20 | Jerub | ooh, and thanks to whoever told me about the runescrolls of fortitude. |
| 06:05.21 | Dagmar | Just so there'd be a drum no one would play? |
| 06:11.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker- (i=503f4262@gateway/web/freenode/x-yfesnpglgvvreatg) |
| 06:12.37 | Fisker- | I am the hero this channel deserves |
| 06:13.44 | DWSR | ~Fisker-++ |
| 06:13.53 | Fisker- | hey DWSR |
| 06:13.59 | DWSR | How's it going? |
| 06:14.23 | Fisker- | alright |
| 06:14.28 | Fisker- | i'm the hero this channel deserves |
| 06:14.49 | Dagmar | Man I really hope clever reads that book I was referring him to |
| 06:15.34 | Dagmar | He's not a _stupid_ kid but there's a lot of reading he has yet to do to "catch up" on formal schools for solving certain types of problems |
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| 06:15.47 | Jerub | what book? |
| 06:15.53 | Dagmar | He's got a Myth box running on some crap hardware I'd never even have tried with |
| 06:15.53 | DWSR | Big Red Crypto |
| 06:16.06 | Dagmar | Jerub: Applied Cryptography by Bruce Schneier |
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| 06:16.42 | ZorbaBeta | if he learns some disicpline and learns how to poke holes in his own ideas, he'll be quite good, I suspect |
| 06:16.44 | Dagmar | He could do a distibuted db... What purpose it would serve is still up the air, but it could be done |
| 06:18.20 | Dagmar | Plus, nowadays, being familiar with the stuff in that book will just about get you jobs |
| 06:18.47 | Dagmar | There's sites he could work on and make some minor cash without anyone ever having to know or care how old he is |
| 06:20.29 | ZorbaBeta | someday I've gotta see if I can get some high-hourly-wage contract work |
| 06:21.17 | cog|sleep | Possibly NSFW (at least with sound) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrzuWl9ml2Y |
| 06:21.37 | Dagmar | ZorbaBeta: Security work pays more than a high priced hooker |
| 06:21.56 | ZorbaBeta | and I actually find security pretty dang fun too |
| 06:22.02 | ZorbaBeta | maybe I should try to specialize in that slightly |
| 06:22.10 | Dagmar | You just have to be willing to accept that most of the gigs amount to someone wanting you to put new locks on the doors after the place has burned to the ground. |
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| 06:22.40 | cog|sleep | Lunessa: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrzuWl9ml2Y |
| 06:22.43 | Dagmar | The last messy one I did, I spent all day basically uncovering that actually every single one of their servers had been compromised for months. |
| 06:22.48 | Jerub | security can be fun, but at the end of the day I usually just end up walking away from hardcore security geeks. |
| 06:22.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (n=elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 06:23.03 | Jerub | i just can't talk to someone who's not pragmatic. |
| 06:23.06 | ZorbaBeta | haha, awesome. that sounds like fun to me :D |
| 06:23.16 | Dagmar | Well, it's a _far_ cry from simple machine repair |
| 06:23.37 | Dagmar | Doing _that_ I could expect to go to a building that's metaphorically in flames, and at the end of the day I'd fixed everything in sight. |
| 06:23.53 | ZorbaBeta | "well, I've got bad news, good news, bad news, and good news. The bad news is that your servers are all completely fucked. The good news is I can fix them! The bad news is that I charge a lot. The good news is that I'm going to get a lot of money from you! Actually, I guess that's last one is bad news for you, isn't it." |
| 06:24.04 | Dagmar | hehehe |
| 06:24.32 | Dagmar | Yeah I "concluded" my buisness with them by giving them some new policies and wishing them the best of luck rebuiling their infrastructure systems |
| 06:24.44 | Lunessa | cog|sleep OMFG |
| 06:24.48 | Dagmar | I know they don't wanna pay me that hourly rate to do a whole buncha reinstalls |
| 06:25.19 | Dagmar | Someone had made the decision prior to that that removing all the removeable media devices from the machines was a security move |
| 06:25.52 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (i=smcn@67.166.76.157) |
| 06:26.03 | DWSR | Dagmar: Not a bad move. =\ |
| 06:26.29 | Dagmar | Consideirng this was in their NOC, which was below ground in an old ATM bunker? |
| 06:26.49 | Dagmar | It makes rebuilding on a compromised network REAL fun |
| 06:26.51 | Fisker- | kisses Dagmar |
| 06:27.21 | Dagmar | The idiot children who broke in had even installed a libc6 rootkit on a libc5 system |
| 06:27.22 | Lunessa | Well, I just wanted to check that mIRC was correctly configured before heading out to sleep. |
| 06:27.27 | Lunessa | So, night all. |
| 06:27.30 | Dagmar | That took two hours to just repair well enough to tell WTF was going on |
| 06:27.32 | *** part/#wowuidev Lunessa (n=matt_con@WoWUIDev/Lunessa) |
| 06:27.44 | Fisker- | what happened guise? |
| 06:32.52 | Jerub | i'm just regretting for the nth time that i can't run rawr on any of my machines :/ |
| 06:32.53 | Fisker- | :( |
| 06:33.02 | Fisker- | baw Jerub |
| 06:33.14 | Fisker- | The next version is going to use silverlight! |
| 06:35.05 | Wobin | cog|sleep, That was a terrible buildup to a terrible joke >< |
| 06:35.27 | Elkano | omg, just checked over the twitter Q&A... |
| 06:35.33 | Elkano | best question ever: |
| 06:35.33 | Elkano | Q: What will happen to Mankrik's Wife? Please don't tell me she's gobbled up by the lava? |
| 06:35.34 | Bruners | and there we got a windows 7 key |
| 06:37.06 | Corrodias | i am now running 7, sort of primarily |
| 06:37.21 | Jerub | i'm considering throwing it in a vm. |
| 06:37.24 | Fisker- | haha i already have one |
| 06:37.26 | Fisker- | take that Bruners |
| 06:37.31 | Fisker- | Microsoft are jerks though |
| 06:37.44 | Dagmar | My DVD should be here in a coupla days |
| 06:37.45 | Dagmar | I'll need that much time to backup my stuff |
| 06:37.48 | Fisker- | To upgrade pro to ultimate (A price difference of £20) you need to pay £85 |
| 06:37.50 | Fisker- | fffffffuuuuuuuuuuuu- |
| 06:37.57 | Corrodias | vista's there if i need it, but i intend to soldier through the process of scavenging its registry for settings and using the existing drive for the actual programs |
| 06:37.57 | Bruners | Fisker-: i didnt have to pay |
| 06:38.20 | Fisker- | mine is legal and ooh exploitable |
| 06:38.21 | Corrodias | Ultimate only has a couple of weird features, though |
| 06:38.34 | Jerub | i loved the upgrade chart |
| 06:38.36 | Fisker- | such as RDP improvements :( |
| 06:38.39 | Dagmar | Bitlocker is just about useless unless you have TPM hardware |
| 06:38.42 | Fisker- | VHD booting is nice too |
| 06:38.52 | Bruners | Fisker-: mine is also legal |
| 06:38.54 | Fisker- | but obviously not the £85 price tag |
| 06:38.59 | Fisker- | Bruners but not exploitable |
| 06:39.08 | Dagmar | .edu discounts aren't half bad |
| 06:39.14 | Corrodias | what kind of RDP improvements? |
| 06:39.15 | Fisker- | and i question the legality etc. |
| 06:39.22 | Fisker- | Corrodias "Aero Glass Remoting" |
| 06:39.28 | Bruners | MSDNAA ftw |
| 06:39.32 | Fisker- | I'm guessing that covers hardware acceleration too |
| 06:39.41 | Dagmar | I am somewhat pleased that apparently the upgrade licence applies to XP, even though MS has been saying it wouldn't be that way |
| 06:40.04 | Fisker- | you make addons Bruners ? |
| 06:40.12 | Corrodias | Bruners: especially after you've graduated 2 years ago |
| 06:40.14 | Corrodias | :V |
| 06:40.23 | Bruners | Fisker-: yes, but im not good at it |
| 06:40.33 | Fisker- | BAM! Ilegal then |
| 06:40.36 | Fisker- | illegal* |
| 06:40.45 | Jerub | ah, here it is. |
| 06:42.03 | Jerub | http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/06/official-windows-7-upgrade-chart-is-ridiculous/ |
| 06:43.04 | Corrodias | there's nothing ridiculous about that. it basically says you can update from any version to any version, but in-place upgrades require you get the equivalent version |
| 06:43.29 | Jerub | and this is the mac version: http://tumbl.strelau.net/post/156605288/upgrading-to-os-x-snow-leopard |
| 06:43.31 | Corrodias | not update... i mean, you can install the "upgrade" edition of any version if you have any version. |
| 06:44.03 | Fisker- | Jerub try adding like 10 sku's |
| 06:44.07 | Dagmar | You only have to bother with three versions in total |
| 06:44.09 | Corrodias | i take it, by that chart, that Leopard has only one version? |
| 06:44.32 | Dagmar | This time, unlike with Vista, home users will actually just want to get 'Home Premium'. |
| 06:44.36 | Corrodias | no shit. take out the 32-bit/64-bit distinction and the chart has only three columns |
| 06:44.47 | DWSR | tbh. |
| 06:44.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Lukian (n=lukian@203.123.90.21) |
| 06:44.53 | Dagmar | Almost the sole reason to get 'Professional' would be for offices because that gets you the ability to login to a domain. |
| 06:45.00 | DWSR | thank you Microsoft for the intelligent move of disallowing upgrade installs from XP. |
| 06:45.04 | Dagmar | 'Ultimate' is just for geeks, basically. |
| 06:45.13 | Corrodias | also, if you get Pro for free |
| 06:45.15 | Dagmar | DWSR: I don't think that's why |
| 06:45.30 | DWSR | Dagmar: Doesn't matter. The fact that you can't do it is just ducky. |
| 06:45.31 | Fisker- | upgrading from xp is stupid |
| 06:45.36 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 06:45.37 | Dagmar | At the moment, and it's still not fixed, W7 has "issues" when it comes to touching an XP filesystem on another disk. |
| 06:45.37 | Fisker- | infact upgrading at all is stupid |
| 06:45.41 | Corrodias | XP -> vista is possible, i believe |
| 06:45.44 | DWSR | Everyone who QQs about it is fucking dumb |
| 06:45.52 | Fisker- | l2backup or use the integrate user settings tranfer tool |
| 06:46.02 | DWSR | ~Fisker--- |
| 06:46.10 | DWSR | For once, I agree with you Fisker |
| 06:46.11 | Fisker- | As far as i know both the XP and Vista version of the user migration tool works fine |
| 06:46.15 | Bruners | learn to set up a computer. |
| 06:46.16 | Dagmar | DWSR: I have had W7 well, for lack of a better phrase, gangbang my XP registry and ACL with chainsaws twice |
| 06:46.28 | Dagmar | JUST trying to copy files off the thing into W7 |
| 06:46.33 | DWSR | Dagmar: It's not (or wasn't) release |
| 06:46.43 | DWSR | l2 not use pre release in a production environment, kthx. |
| 06:46.50 | Corrodias | reasons for pro: Remote Desktop Host, domain joining, XP mode |
| 06:46.55 | Dagmar | What it's updated itself to is _supposed_ to be able to do that |
| 06:47.03 | Fisker- | fuck yeah Corrodias |
| 06:47.07 | Jerub | we had to do some hacking to make windows7 work with ntlm and kerberos auth on our proxies, all fixed and documentated, now, but it was ap in |
| 06:47.10 | Fisker- | I couldn't live without Remote Desktop Host |
| 06:47.24 | Dagmar | *kof*xdmcp*kof* |
| 06:47.26 | Corrodias | Dagmar: how the hell did it damage your registry just accessing the filesystem? |
| 06:47.49 | DWSR | Corrodias: Probably fucked with the ACLs. |
| 06:47.51 | Dagmar | Corrodias: It completely screws up when it attempts to modify the other filesystem in order to give your user account access to those files. |
| 06:48.18 | Dagmar | ...and it offers to do that every time you try and get at those files. |
| 06:48.29 | Bruners | is the shift-right click open command window here in library fixed in the release version of 7 ? |
| 06:48.31 | Corrodias | ah yes, i remember it doing that when i copied some user files from Vista |
| 06:48.31 | DWSR | Doesn't W7 default to using a newer version of NTFS? |
| 06:48.43 | Dagmar | It apparently _expects_ the newer version |
| 06:48.54 | DWSR | Dagmar: *shrug* |
| 06:49.03 | Corrodias | Bruners: it gives an error |
| 06:49.03 | DWSR | Forcing the world to upgrade isn't really a bad thing. |
| 06:49.10 | Dagmar | I've got no problem with it |
| 06:49.12 | Corrodias | which is predictable, since library has no physical location |
| 06:49.21 | Dagmar | I really don't. |
| 06:49.29 | Dagmar | Lots and lots of people have 64-bit CPUs now. |
| 06:49.47 | Corrodias | i have a problem with 7 trashing the acl instead of altering it safely, but other than that... yeah, no upgrade = good |
| 06:50.02 | Dagmar | Those have pretty much all got hardware features that will put a stop to probably half of the exploits that have plagued XP/2k3 |
| 06:50.18 | Corrodias | when i had to get into my vista files here, all it did was add my account to the access list with full permission. i haven't tried to boot vista again afterward, though! |
| 06:50.22 | Corrodias | maybe i can't! who knows :V |
| 06:50.40 | Bruners | who cares about Vista when you have 7 ? |
| 06:50.55 | Corrodias | well, vista has all my shit installed. and my quicklaunch buttons in the order i like them. |
| 06:50.59 | Dagmar | Corrodias: It did really cool things with the ACLs. I couldn't even read or write to a lot of my own files. |
| 06:51.05 | Corrodias | hahah, awesome |
| 06:51.11 | Dagmar | That was fun running the weird commands in safe mode to globally reset the ACLs |
| 06:51.28 | Corrodias | here's one of the best changes to Explorer in 7, up from vista: |
| 06:51.40 | Corrodias | the action bar at the top is light blue instead of ugly green |
| 06:51.41 | Dagmar | The only more annoying thing I've ever had to happen to XP was occasionally when Comodo would fail an update |
| 06:52.25 | Corrodias | what's Comodo? sounds important. |
| 06:52.25 | Fisker- | Bruners do you suffer from OMGIGP? |
| 06:52.25 | Dagmar | it's an antivirus product |
| 06:52.29 | Dagmar | I use it because it's basically, very mean. |
| 06:52.39 | Bruners | Fisker-: as i dont know what that is, i guess not |
| 06:52.57 | Corrodias | i like the taskbar improvements re: grouping related windows together without actually stacking them, if you tell it not to |
| 06:53.02 | Dagmar | I just turn on the whitelist and basically, anything that starts any process it hasn't seen before it'll immediately put a stop to |
| 06:53.12 | Dagmar | For most people this means the machine is unusable |
| 06:53.21 | Corrodias | wow. |
| 06:53.42 | bleeter | IS IT STILL INTERNATIONAL CAPSLOCK DAY??!! |
| 06:53.58 | Fisker- | no |
| 06:54.00 | Dagmar | ...but if you can put up with having to tell it 'okay' a lot for the first few days, it's ruthless about stopping fishy websites |
| 06:54.04 | Bruners | depends on your time zone i guess |
| 06:54.09 | Fisker- | no |
| 06:54.09 | bleeter | WAAAAAAA |
| 06:54.22 | Fisker- | depends on your will to live |
| 06:54.25 | Bruners | we here in the future had it yesterday |
| 06:54.55 | Dagmar | Corrodias; The other thing that makes it about useless for home users is that if you don't know WTF is supposed to be happening, you're probably just going to click yes on every warning it gives |
| 06:55.13 | bleeter | Bruners: I WAS PARTYING FOR CAPSLOCK LIKE IT WAS 48HOURS LONG |
| 06:55.20 | Corrodias | true enough |
| 06:55.29 | Bruners | i didnt join the party |
| 06:55.47 | bleeter | OH WELL AT LEAST I DIDN'T GET FORUM BANNED FOR SUGGESTING BLIZZ OBSERVE CAPSLOCK DAY |
| 06:55.51 | Wobin | tekkub: http://www.teefury.com/ |
| 06:55.52 | bleeter | MERELY SUGGESTION POST DELETED |
| 06:56.29 | Bruners | why is there a fish eating that bears penor ? |
| 06:57.20 | Dagmar | Because we're not allowed to hunt furries down with guns. |
| 06:57.59 | tekkub | Wobin: god damnit |
| 06:58.04 | tekkub | only XXL |
| 06:58.26 | Bruners | i would not have liked having a fish take a bite off my penor |
| 07:01.19 | Wobin | tekkub, 33x26 |
| 07:01.25 | Wobin | they stretch pretty well |
| 07:02.22 | Shirik | Iriel: http://wowi.pastey.net/126982 |
| 07:02.26 | Shirik | I can't think of any other test cases |
| 07:02.41 | Corrodias | applies the "never try to figure out what kinds of files i have in my folders" tweak and rejoices |
| 07:03.05 | bleeter | goddamn it |
| 07:03.09 | bleeter | who stole the forums?? |
| 07:03.15 | Fisker- | me |
| 07:03.20 | bleeter | PUT THEM BACK |
| 07:03.23 | bleeter | MUST CAPSLOCK MOAR |
| 07:03.40 | Fisker- | Shirik i'm the hero this channel deserves |
| 07:04.01 | Corrodias | one of my favorite tweaks, that |
| 07:04.01 | Elkano | Fisker-, you are going to hero? |
| 07:04.10 | Bruners | Fisker-: btw, im eating bread with dansk salami |
| 07:04.11 | tekkub | Wobin: yea they're the size of woot's 3x, worth A try I guess |
| 07:05.41 | Fisker- | you're the cancer that's killing danish salami Bruners |
| 07:05.55 | *** join/#wowuidev svenadh (n=sven@L0.moenchengladbach01.fdknet.de) |
| 07:06.00 | Shirik | with errors: http://wowi.pastey.net/126983 |
| 07:06.19 | *** join/#wowuidev yleaf (n=chatzill@116.234.199.26) |
| 07:08.21 | Elkano | ...[x]? cool :) |
| 07:09.25 | bleeter | Fisker-: SORRY Mr_Rabies IS THE HERO WE DESERVE YOU'RE A WANNABE |
| 07:09.45 | Shirik | Last week I raised the issue, Elkano, that select() is a hack and extremely heavyweight for something that should be incredibly simple by the VM |
| 07:09.58 | Shirik | so I proposed this change that the VM should be able to directly access and pull out an index |
| 07:10.08 | Shirik | and proof |
| 07:10.19 | Shirik | you avoid both the function call and the overhead of copying every element's reference |
| 07:11.19 | Shirik | there is a little problem with it still |
| 07:11.24 | Shirik | ...[i][j] is not valid syntax right now |
| 07:11.39 | Shirik | e.g., if the first element in ... was a table, you might want to do ...[1][i] |
| 07:11.45 | Shirik | but it's a syntax error right now |
| 07:12.02 | Shirik | it's resolvable with (...[1])[i] thought |
| 07:18.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (n=Cide@h238n1-far-gr100.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 07:18.44 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 07:19.00 | Shirik | Ciddy poo |
| 07:19.10 | Shirik | Cide: http://wowi.pastey.net/126983 |
| 07:19.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (n=Srosh@213.39.136.99) |
| 07:20.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Ycarene (i=jporterf@24.116.56.41) |
| 07:21.23 | Cide | Shirik: awesome |
| 07:21.33 | Cide | what about ...[1.5]? |
| 07:21.34 | bleeter | THAT'S PRETTY SEXY |
| 07:21.36 | Shirik | did you catch the one error in those test cases? |
| 07:21.42 | Shirik | probably not |
| 07:21.50 | Shirik | I think ...[1.5] will become ...[1] |
| 07:21.52 | Shirik | I cast to int |
| 07:22.08 | Shirik | yeah it does |
| 07:22.19 | Cide | I didn't see any error, why? |
| 07:22.31 | Shirik | error message says "attempt to index vararg list by a a string value" |
| 07:22.42 | Cide | oh, lol |
| 07:22.47 | Cide | I was looking at functionality |
| 07:22.51 | Cide | not your engrish |
| 07:22.51 | Shirik | yeah :P |
| 07:23.32 | Cide | now what remains is ...[(-1)^0.5] |
| 07:23.38 | Shirik | lol |
| 07:23.44 | Cide | should return a random index |
| 07:23.54 | Cide | not sure why |
| 07:24.30 | Shirik | woah |
| 07:24.30 | Shirik | I think you found a bug |
| 07:24.31 | Cide | haha, really? |
| 07:24.31 | Shirik | > print(...[(-1)^0.5]) |
| 07:24.31 | Shirik | nil nil |
| 07:24.31 | Cide | nice |
| 07:24.31 | Cide | I win |
| 07:24.36 | Cide | can you implement python slicing syntax? |
| 07:24.40 | Shirik | that's odd |
| 07:24.50 | Shirik | everything from the main chunk is returning nil, nil |
| 07:24.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (n=kalroth@0x573f1066.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1101.hjnqu1.customer.tele.dk) |
| 07:25.04 | Cide | what value are you returning? |
| 07:25.35 | Cide | function twoandthree(...) return ...[1:3] end -- twoandthree(1, 2, 3) => 2, 3 |
| 07:25.36 | Cide | go |
| 07:25.42 | Shirik | lol |
| 07:25.45 | Shirik | one thing at a time |
| 07:25.48 | Cide | it'd actually be useful |
| 07:25.56 | Shirik | it would, and it should be possible |
| 07:26.45 | Shirik | I'm not sure why it's returning nil, nil from the main chunk |
| 07:26.59 | Cide | paste your c? |
| 07:27.26 | Fisker- | pastes Cide into word |
| 07:27.33 | Cide | that's ok |
| 07:27.33 | Fisker- | oh nos |
| 07:27.35 | Cide | I have word open right now |
| 07:27.40 | Shirik | where, the VM? |
| 07:27.48 | Cide | sure I guess |
| 07:28.00 | Cide | I'm not sure how you implemented it |
| 07:28.16 | Cide | I'm just awesome at spotting logical errors! |
| 07:28.28 | Cide | not so much syntactical ones in a language I barely know |
| 07:28.35 | Shirik | http://wowi.pastey.net/126984 |
| 07:28.43 | Shirik | c == 1 when using the vararg list |
| 07:28.48 | Shirik | vararg list element access |
| 07:28.55 | Shirik | c ==0 when using the classic use of ... |
| 07:29.19 | Shirik | yes it is ugly |
| 07:29.21 | Shirik | that is how the VM is |
| 07:30.20 | Cide | setobjs2s -- what's this do? |
| 07:30.38 | Shirik | copy object from stack to stack |
| 07:30.42 | Shirik | same stack |
| 07:31.07 | Shirik | what's wierd is it works for every other situation |
| 07:31.15 | Shirik | even if the vararg list is empty in the function |
| 07:31.19 | Shirik | it just isn't working from the main chunk |
| 07:31.45 | Cide | what's the signature? |
| 07:32.12 | Cide | I bet you need a +- 1 in one of the args! |
| 07:32.23 | Cide | probably the third. |
| 07:32.34 | Shirik | of setobj2s? |
| 07:32.38 | Shirik | s2s |
| 07:32.39 | Shirik | gah |
| 07:32.44 | Shirik | they have way too many of those functions |
| 07:32.46 | Cide | yep |
| 07:33.00 | Shirik | but if it was off-by-one I would have expected it to break for the other functions |
| 07:33.21 | Cide | true |
| 07:33.30 | Cide | but I looked it up in my gut |
| 07:34.17 | Shirik | even this works: |
| 07:34.40 | Shirik | function mySelect(i, ...) return ...[i], ... end mySelect(2,1,2,3,4,5) |
| 07:35.06 | Cide | returns 1, 2, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5? |
| 07:35.15 | Cide | er |
| 07:35.19 | Cide | that's confusing |
| 07:35.25 | Cide | way too many numbers |
| 07:35.34 | Cide | 2, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 |
| 07:37.25 | Cide | Shirik: maybe you need to set L->top ? |
| 07:37.32 | Cide | like in the other case (c == 0) |
| 07:37.38 | Shirik | hm |
| 07:37.39 | Shirik | maybe |
| 07:38.06 | Shirik | that |
| 07:38.07 | Shirik | makes sense |
| 07:38.58 | batrick | Shirik: your tonumber will change the contents of the stack |
| 07:39.09 | batrick | you need to make a dummy TValue that can be changed |
| 07:42.17 | Shirik | Well I fixed half of it |
| 07:42.20 | Shirik | Cide's half |
| 07:42.25 | Shirik | with the whole returning nil, nil |
| 07:42.27 | Shirik | batrick's still breaks |
| 07:42.38 | Cide | what breaks? |
| 07:42.52 | Shirik | > (function(...) print(...[2]) end)(1,2,3,4,5) |
| 07:42.52 | Shirik | 2 2 |
| 07:43.40 | Cide | try |
| 07:43.48 | Cide | (function(...) print(...[2]) end)(5,4,3,2,1) |
| 07:44.11 | Shirik | batrick: ttype won't affect the stack right? |
| 07:44.17 | Shirik | I don't really need nb |
| 07:44.18 | Cide | what do you get? |
| 07:45.11 | Shirik | Cide: 4,4 |
| 07:45.18 | Cide | weak, wasn't what I thought then |
| 07:48.22 | Shirik | lol batrick, that freereg stuff just broke everything |
| 07:48.24 | Shirik | taking that back out |
| 07:51.53 | Shirik | it's so strange that there could be a difference between `return <statement>` and `print(<statement>)` |
| 07:52.26 | Shirik | I wonder if |
| 07:52.30 | Shirik | ooooo |
| 07:52.33 | Shirik | I bet the parser's still wrong |
| 07:52.42 | Shirik | I need to look at how these are compiled |
| 07:53.12 | batrick | ... i said the parser was wrong |
| 07:53.19 | Shirik | :( |
| 07:53.21 | batrick | Shirik: how does your parser handle printing, e.g.: function a(...) print(...[2]) end |
| 07:53.23 | Shirik | then you said I got lucky! |
| 07:55.12 | Shirik | http://wowi.pastey.net/126986 |
| 07:55.22 | Shirik | I think CALL 1 3 1 is wrong |
| 07:56.18 | Shirik | it should be CALL 1 2 1 I think |
| 08:00.34 | batrick | Shirik: can I see your VM code |
| 08:00.47 | Shirik | I just posted it |
| 08:01.05 | batrick | no, code in lvm.c |
| 08:01.15 | Shirik | (03:28:23) (@Shirik) http://wowi.pastey.net/126984 |
| 08:01.43 | batrick | oh, thanks |
| 08:01.49 | Shirik | wait |
| 08:01.53 | Shirik | you already commented on that |
| 08:01.56 | Shirik | batrick, I think you need sleep |
| 08:02.02 | Shirik | you already told me not to do something in there lol |
| 08:02.09 | batrick | ? |
| 08:02.25 | Shirik | (03:38:47) (batrick) Shirik: your tonumber will change the contents of the stack |
| 08:02.31 | batrick | you might want to have 1 based indexing |
| 08:02.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 08:02.53 | batrick | tonumber will change the contents of the stack if the value is a string |
| 08:03.08 | Shirik | well I took it out |
| 08:03.12 | Shirik | and replaced it with ttype() |
| 08:03.23 | batrick | http://lua.pastey.net/126988 |
| 08:03.23 | Shirik | since I don't actually need the number anyway |
| 08:03.24 | batrick | do that |
| 08:03.48 | Shirik | why? |
| 08:03.53 | Shirik | ttype works just as well |
| 08:03.59 | batrick | ttype doesn't allow strings |
| 08:04.02 | batrick | ? |
| 08:04.14 | Shirik | I changed to if (ttype(rb) != LUA_TNUMBER) |
| 08:04.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 08:07.37 | batrick | i got it working |
| 08:08.39 | Shirik | was the problem in the VM or the parser? |
| 08:08.51 | batrick | parser |
| 08:09.03 | batrick | and design |
| 08:09.15 | Shirik | was the opcode incorrect? |
| 08:09.15 | Shirik | the CALL opcode? |
| 08:09.15 | batrick | overall design* |
| 08:09.15 | batrick | let me test some more |
| 08:09.27 | Shirik | I refuse to let you change the overall design :P |
| 08:09.55 | Shirik | batrick is such a C programmer |
| 08:10.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 08:11.48 | batrick | http://lua.pastey.net/126989 |
| 08:15.41 | Shirik | yeah that tells me nothing |
| 08:16.28 | Kalroth | check_match(ls, ']', '[', line); <- the closing bracket needs to be on the same line?! |
| 08:16.30 | Shirik | and you really enjoy using variables for no reason, huh? |
| 08:16.34 | Shirik | no Kalroth |
| 08:16.46 | Shirik | That just checks that there is a matching bracket |
| 08:16.51 | Shirik | not necessarily the same line |
| 08:17.01 | Kalroth | why is the line variable transfered then? |
| 08:17.27 | Shirik | because the error message says "to close '[' on line ___" |
| 08:17.37 | batrick | yes there were some unused variables |
| 08:17.43 | batrick | otherwise it's correct :P |
| 08:17.51 | batrick | (at least I'm 99% sure it is) |
| 08:18.13 | Shirik | I don't care, it doesn't tell me anything so I'm not even bothering to look at it |
| 08:18.58 | batrick | how does it not tellyou anything |
| 08:19.29 | Shirik | Part of the purpose of me doing this project was so I can gain an understanding Lua's parser. Someone else writing code for me and giving it to me does not help achieve that goal |
| 08:19.44 | batrick | the VARARG opcode now has a source register, the value is placed on the top of the stack (there is no destination register) |
| 08:20.00 | batrick | well I had to understand better to help you, so I did it too :P |
| 08:20.03 | DWSR | Can I get the location of the player's corpse AFTER releasing, or do I have to save the location when the player dies? |
| 08:20.14 | Shirik | that still doesn't help me achieve my goal |
| 08:21.16 | *** join/#wowuidev tem (n=tardmrr@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
| 08:21.16 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tem] by ChanServ |
| 08:21.23 | batrick | damn it code is still wrong : / |
| 08:21.28 | batrick | i dunno shirik |
| 08:21.32 | tem | fucking shit windows |
| 08:21.42 | tem | I fucking hate it when you reboot when I'm not expecting it |
| 08:21.50 | Cide | I hate them too. I always end up falling through them |
| 08:21.52 | Shirik | I am pretty sure the CALL opcode is wrong |
| 08:21.54 | tem | especially when I have a long job running that you interrupt without asking me about it |
| 08:21.58 | Shirik | I'm 99% sure it should be CALL 1 2 1 |
| 08:22.05 | Shirik | but it's coming up with CALL 1 3 1 |
| 08:22.14 | Shirik | which leads me to believe it's picking up 2 parameters from teh changes |
| 08:23.02 | Shirik | hm no way |
| 08:23.05 | Shirik | A is the number of parameters |
| 08:23.23 | Shirik | no it's not |
| 08:23.23 | Shirik | wtf |
| 08:24.19 | Shirik | yes it is |
| 08:24.21 | Shirik | lol |
| 08:25.00 | Kalroth | takes the whiskey from Shirik. |
| 08:25.02 | Kalroth | No more. |
| 08:25.24 | Shirik | boom |
| 08:25.28 | Shirik | I just got it to crash |
| 08:25.58 | Shirik | oh well I think I'm going to sleep |
| 08:26.01 | Shirik | enough work on this tonight |
| 08:26.22 | Cide | that's probably a GREAT idea |
| 08:26.43 | Cide | <Shirik> hm no way <Shirik> no it's not <Shirik> wtf <Shirik> yes it is |
| 08:26.48 | Cide | never a good monologue |
| 08:27.16 | Shirik | this is so stupid |
| 08:27.23 | Shirik | #{...[1]} always returns 1 |
| 08:27.29 | Shirik | but print(...[1]) prints 2 values |
| 08:28.15 | Cide | select('#', ...[1])? |
| 08:28.23 | Cide | probably 2 then |
| 08:28.31 | Shirik | 2 |
| 08:28.45 | Shirik | but why the hell are other things working right |
| 08:29.36 | Cide | paste your current code? |
| 08:29.44 | Cide | how are you compiling it btw? |
| 08:30.27 | Cide | (you should send me the source so I can play with it) |
| 08:33.06 | Cide | or is that it? your lvm.c modifications |
| 08:34.54 | Shirik | I might have just gotten it |
| 08:36.03 | Shirik | give me an odd test case |
| 08:36.10 | Shirik | everything I have tried works |
| 08:36.36 | Shirik | batrick: It had to do with that extraneous register you were referring to earlier |
| 08:36.41 | Shirik | however, you over-corrected the problem |
| 08:36.48 | Shirik | your fix removed both registers when it should have only freed one |
| 08:37.05 | batrick | ok |
| 08:37.21 | Shirik | wtb strange test case |
| 08:38.07 | batrick | Once you get it working Shirik your only problem is that the syntax makes no sense :) |
| 08:38.13 | Shirik | hey |
| 08:38.26 | Shirik | I spent 2 weeks in this channel and in #lua discussing the syntax |
| 08:38.32 | Shirik | your fault for not speaking up :P |
| 08:38.38 | batrick | i don't remember it |
| 08:38.56 | Shirik | The only other suggestion was @i which was decided against because it was more difficult for complex expressions |
| 08:39.23 | Shirik | because it would have to be something like @(1+2) |
| 08:39.36 | batrick | can I see the current code that "works" |
| 08:40.04 | Shirik | sure |
| 08:40.40 | Shirik | VM: http://wowi.pastey.net/126992 |
| 08:41.17 | Shirik | Parser: http://wowi.pastey.net/126993 |
| 08:43.40 | batrick | does it not waste registers? |
| 08:43.44 | Shirik | do you have any idea how annoying it is, batrick |
| 08:43.51 | Shirik | to have to declare variables at the top |
| 08:43.55 | Shirik | your language needs to die |
| 08:43.57 | Shirik | dieeeeeeeeeeeeeeee |
| 08:43.57 | batrick | that is, can you do "local a = ...[1]; local b = ...[2]" |
| 08:44.03 | batrick | and the byte code does not waste registers? |
| 08:44.45 | batrick | ANSI C is dead Shirik |
| 08:44.54 | Shirik | GOOD |
| 08:44.59 | batrick | ISO C99 is the new C :P |
| 08:45.04 | batrick | bbl |
| 08:45.18 | Shirik | join the resistance |
| 08:45.20 | Shirik | we are C++ |
| 08:45.23 | Shirik | you will be assimilated |
| 08:45.39 | Cide | function range(i) if i == 1 then return 1; end return 1, range(i-1) end function count(...) return ...[1]+count(select(2, ...)) end print(count(range(2^11))) |
| 08:45.49 | Shirik | s/assimilated/inherited/ |
| 08:45.50 | Cide | boring example |
| 08:45.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (n=caleb@dsl4E5C0142.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 08:46.11 | Shirik | sec Cide I'm checking the bytecode output first |
| 08:46.34 | Cide | function range(i) if i == 1 then return 1; end return 1, range(i-1) end function count(...) if not ...[1] then return 0; end return ...[select('#', ...)]+count(select(2, ...)) end print(count(range(2^11))) |
| 08:46.35 | Cide | there |
| 08:47.04 | Shirik | batrick: http://wowi.pastey.net/126995 |
| 08:47.13 | Shirik | I can't tell if it's wasting any |
| 08:47.15 | Shirik | I don't think it is |
| 08:47.19 | Shirik | it has to hold one |
| 08:47.34 | Shirik | Cide: Result expected? |
| 08:48.18 | Shirik | result is 2048 |
| 08:51.25 | Cide | lua> 2^11 |
| 08:51.26 | lua_bot | Cide: 2048 |
| 08:51.31 | Cide | yep |
| 08:51.49 | Cide | can't remember what the max depth is? it's around there somewhere |
| 08:51.50 | Cide | 2^13 maybe |
| 08:53.24 | Shirik | anyway |
| 08:53.26 | Shirik | I'm excited |
| 08:53.28 | Shirik | again |
| 08:53.40 | Shirik | and select('#', ...[i]) is no longer saying 2 |
| 08:53.53 | Shirik | all I can think of is that CALL was picking up the additional register and assuming there was another value to pass for some reason |
| 08:54.27 | Cide | implement ...[start:end] go |
| 08:54.35 | Shirik | sec |
| 08:54.39 | Shirik | I'm curious of the speed improvements |
| 08:54.40 | Shirik | must test |
| 08:58.09 | Shirik | wow |
| 08:58.12 | Shirik | select just kicked my ass |
| 08:58.16 | Shirik | that shouldn't be right |
| 08:58.23 | Cide | ouch |
| 08:58.40 | Shirik | I must have something wrong floating around |
| 08:58.59 | Cide | even for select(2, range(2^11)) vs range(2^11)[2]? |
| 08:59.10 | Cide | (do you even support the latter?) |
| 08:59.25 | Shirik | I don't support the latter right now |
| 08:59.44 | Shirik | and that's valid Lua syntax |
| 08:59.45 | Shirik | so I really can't |
| 09:00.15 | Cide | only it returns a list and not a table |
| 09:00.34 | Cide | could you do it with range(2^11)@2? |
| 09:00.53 | Cide | if so that's a huge pro for different syntax |
| 09:01.25 | batrick | Shirik: that code is meaningless if I can't see the corresponding lua code |
| 09:01.31 | batrick | that bytecode* |
| 09:03.09 | Cide | Shirik: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/28903/Other/part-009.jpeg |
| 09:04.07 | Shirik | yeah my code is going a lot slower |
| 09:04.09 | *** join/#wowuidev yleaf (n=chatzill@116.234.199.26) |
| 09:04.10 | Shirik | I will have to investigate |
| 09:05.05 | Shirik | it might be the cast |
| 09:05.12 | batrick | Shirik: I can tell you right now the parser is not optimal and someone more familiar would do it very differently |
| 09:05.16 | *** join/#wowuidev zeheres (n=crs@dslb-084-061-056-048.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 09:05.23 | batrick | as an example, we are using 2 slots when 1 would suffice |
| 09:05.33 | batrick | I'm not familiar enough to make it right |
| 09:05.43 | batrick | and there should be an example we could work off of somewhere in the parser code |
| 09:05.47 | batrick | but i couldn't find a suitable one |
| 09:05.53 | Shirik | still the VM is way too slow |
| 09:05.58 | Shirik | even with an inefficient parser |
| 09:06.02 | batrick | and I think your code is wasting registers |
| 09:06.32 | Shirik | but |
| 09:06.33 | batrick | whatever made your code at http://wowi.pastey.net/126995 |
| 09:06.37 | Shirik | I have a 24 hour programming competition coming up |
| 09:06.39 | batrick | do it twice in a row and post the byteocde |
| 09:06.50 | Shirik | so I gotta go to sleep |
| 09:06.54 | batrick | i hate u |
| 09:06.54 | Shirik | will investigate more tomorrow |
| 09:07.04 | Shirik | too hard to get the bytecode it takes me 5 minutes just to adjust the makefile |
| 09:07.11 | batrick | next time u wanna add some crazy shit to lua ur on ur own! |
| 09:07.20 | Shirik | lol |
| 09:07.29 | Shirik | I will make thsi faster than select |
| 09:07.34 | Shirik | there is no reason for select to be so fast |
| 09:07.41 | Shirik | to be faster* |
| 09:07.46 | batrick | maybe |
| 09:07.49 | Shirik | this is something the VM has direct access to |
| 09:07.52 | batrick | Roberto's code >> Shirik's code |
| 09:07.55 | batrick | sup |
| 09:07.59 | Shirik | no |
| 09:08.02 | batrick | yes |
| 09:08.04 | batrick | =) |
| 09:08.09 | Shirik | Roberto modifying Roberto's code >> Shirik modifying Roberto's code |
| 09:08.14 | Shirik | WITH NO COMMENTS |
| 09:08.28 | Shirik | so I get to figure out shit like objs2s on my own |
| 09:08.34 | batrick | o that's not hard |
| 09:08.46 | batrick | figuring out what that expdesc shit is IS HARD |
| 09:08.52 | Shirik | and wtf is the difference between luaV and luaK and luaS and luaX and luaB and luaIFAWJEFOAHEF |
| 09:09.04 | batrick | tells you which c file they're in |
| 09:09.05 | Cide | ^ no kidding |
| 09:09.23 | batrick | luaK is all stuff to create bytecode |
| 09:09.26 | Shirik | why do I need to know that |
| 09:09.29 | Shirik | I have visual assist |
| 09:09.30 | batrick | luaX is all lexer stuff |
| 09:09.31 | batrick | etc. |
| 09:09.41 | batrick | because some people don't use shitty microsoft compilers? |
| 09:09.50 | Shirik | visual assist isn't a microsoft program :P |
| 09:09.54 | batrick | whatever |
| 09:09.58 | Shirik | It is a correction to the shit that is microsoft :P |
| 09:10.12 | Shirik | http://www.wholetomato.com/ <-- very win |
| 09:10.13 | Shirik | NIGHT! |
| 09:10.29 | batrick | bye nonfriend |
| 09:10.38 | Shirik | :( |
| 09:10.44 | Shirik | you are turning into Fisker |
| 09:10.48 | Corrodias | was it incgamers that had some trouble with infected advertisements way back in the day? |
| 09:10.50 | batrick | ... |
| 09:10.51 | batrick | WOW |
| 09:10.54 | Kalroth | ouch |
| 09:10.57 | ZorbaBeta | man seriously that is what grep is for |
| 09:11.04 | ZorbaBeta | you should not need to tag your function names with filenames |
| 09:11.06 | Shirik | That is totally something he would have said |
| 09:11.06 | Kalroth | comforts batrick. |
| 09:11.11 | batrick | after holding your hand through all the parser code |
| 09:11.15 | batrick | i get called fisker |
| 09:11.19 | Arrowmaster | Corrodias: infected updater client |
| 09:11.20 | Shirik | night <3 |
| 09:11.22 | Kalroth | what a kick in the balls |
| 09:11.36 | batrick | Kalroth: seriously |
| 09:11.59 | Kalroth | I mean, he might as well have spat in your face and slapped you |
| 09:12.05 | Kalroth | it's almost as bad as being called Fisker |
| 09:12.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (n=Srosh@c136099.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 09:16.58 | Cide | Shirik|AFK: huh |
| 09:17.04 | Cide | ...[i] is much faster for me |
| 09:19.20 | Cide | like several orders of magnitude |
| 09:29.32 | tem | Anyone know anything about upnp media servers? |
| 09:30.55 | Arrowmaster | tem: try TVersity |
| 09:31.07 | tem | yeah I've got it atm |
| 09:31.17 | tem | and I can't seem to make it do subtitles |
| 09:31.19 | tem | any ideas? |
| 09:31.59 | Arrowmaster | install CCCP |
| 09:32.04 | Arrowmaster | might help |
| 09:32.07 | tem | already have it |
| 09:32.42 | tem | and I've configured my ffdshow codec to have subs on by default |
| 09:34.02 | Arrowmaster | if you open the video on the computer do the subs work and show by default? |
| 09:34.07 | tem | yes |
| 09:35.04 | tem | in windows media player |
| 09:35.07 | tem | and in MPC |
| 09:36.23 | tem | hmm |
| 09:36.27 | tem | I might ahve found the problem |
| 09:36.32 | tem | lets try this again |
| 09:40.14 | tem | sigh |
| 09:40.18 | tem | now it won't play anything |
| 09:44.09 | Wobin | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOQ1aXof8lg&feature=player_embedded |
| 09:44.14 | Wobin | norwegian waffle recipe |
| 09:45.47 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI (n=KarlKFI@ip68-225-225-215.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 10:10.51 | Jerub | I'm just about to heal faction champs as a druid. Any advice? |
| 10:11.09 | Cide | don't die |
| 10:11.39 | ZorbaBeta | don't die *much*. |
| 10:15.41 | Jerub | any real advice? |
| 10:16.08 | Cide | try to stay alive? |
| 10:19.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Legorol (n=legorol@82-41-49-132.cable.ubr07.sgyl.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 10:19.30 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Legorol] by ChanServ |
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| 10:28.45 | Fisker | i like you Wobin |
| 10:29.24 | Wobin | Jerub, rejuv like it's going out of style |
| 10:36.16 | DWSR | lol |
| 10:36.39 | DWSR | thoughts on turn Meta (demonology 51 pointer) into a melee DPS 'stance' for warlocks? |
| 10:37.00 | DWSR | s/turn/turn/ |
| 10:37.02 | DWSR | fail. |
| 10:37.05 | DWSR | turning* |
| 10:39.20 | _rane | ckknight_: feature request for pitbull4: possibility to have the combat indicator as a red border around the player frame, or health or/and power bars being red color in combat ;) |
| 10:41.18 | Jerub | nearly broke 3k HPS there.... |
| 10:44.29 | Cide | DWSR: horrible |
| 10:44.38 | DWSR | why? |
| 10:44.56 | Cide | because it's not at all related to the design of the warlock |
| 10:45.26 | DWSR | why not? Meta already has 2 melee related abilities, and 2 more that are designed to be used in close proximity to the target. |
| 10:46.08 | ZorbaBeta | I think a spellpower-focused melee spec would be pretty interesting |
| 10:46.17 | ZorbaBeta | and honestly, warlock wouldn't be a bad choice for that at all. |
| 10:46.20 | ZorbaBeta | melee cloth, at that. |
| 10:46.54 | DWSR | You wouldn't need to make "melee cloth", just make an SP->AP/Strength conversion. |
| 10:46.57 | ZorbaBeta | I don't mean a new type of equipment, I just mean a melee-based cloth-wearing class |
| 10:47.10 | ZorbaBeta | personally I wouldn't even base anything on ap or str, I'd come up with a different way to rig things |
| 10:47.15 | DWSR | Meta would obviously have to provide some restrictions on spell casts, and the issues of finite power vs. the infinite power of rage/runic/energy would need to be addressed. |
| 10:47.48 | ZorbaBeta | perhaps a few toggleable on-next-melee attacks that behave differently based on which debuffs are on the enemy |
| 10:48.08 | ZorbaBeta | nah, that's already addressed. look at ret pally or enhancement shaman. |
| 10:48.23 | DWSR | Indeed. Meta would need *more* abilities, and probably the removal of the taunt. |
| 10:48.39 | DWSR | Right, but shamans and ret pallies have other ways of regenning mana through melee. |
| 10:49.13 | ZorbaBeta | honestly we're already talking about redesigning the entire spec |
| 10:49.30 | Fisker | i'm redesigning you |
| 10:49.39 | ZorbaBeta | I'm redesigning your mom |
| 10:49.39 | DWSR | Hrm, that's true. |
| 10:49.46 | Fisker | also paladins |
| 10:50.25 | DWSR | I think Demo would be ideal because 1) it buffs your Felguard anyway and 2) meta specs aren't the highest DPS, so giving them a little diversity would be awesome. |
| 10:51.47 | DWSR | Meta's pretty ideal because it's already half way there. |
| 10:51.54 | DWSR | You don't need to even adjust *any* other talents. |
| 10:51.59 | DWSR | Just literally redo meta. |
| 10:52.30 | DWSR | That way demo locks have the option of taking a ranged role or melee role based on the fight, personal preference, or whatever. |
| 11:02.36 | Pneumatus | arent they buffing demo anyway? |
| 11:10.46 | Fisker | omg i can't troll the forums |
| 11:12.15 | Kalroth | You're such a Fisker, Fisker |
| 11:12.40 | Fisker | hey Kalroth |
| 11:12.42 | Fisker | i like you |
| 11:12.47 | Kalroth | :( |
| 11:13.13 | Fisker | 1-0 |
| 11:13.19 | Fisker | aah |
| 11:13.39 | Fisker | i can post again :3 |
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| 11:30.54 | DWSR | Pneumatus: When is demo getting buffed? Not 3.3 |
| 11:31.43 | DWSR | ah, nvm, I see. |
| 11:34.06 | DWSR | They're making our execute rotation spamming soul fire under decimation. They're nerfing the soul fire weaving required to output maximum DPS. = |
| 11:34.08 | DWSR | =\ |
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| 11:58.22 | Fisker | sneaks a penis inside DWSR |
| 11:58.34 | DWSR | ~Fisker-- |
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| 12:16.45 | *** join/#wowuidev TopTop18 (n=TopTop18@ip231-37-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 12:19.21 | TopTop18 | Q: How am I able to set or recall soemthing that's in a table that's in a table? So A = {["B"] = {[1] = -4}}; then set or recall -4 |
| 12:21.04 | Kalroth | A["B"][1] = -5 doesn't work? |
| 12:21.29 | mikma | toptop18: B[1] = foo |
| 12:21.53 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR (n=doingwha@unaffiliated/dwsr) |
| 12:22.24 | TopTop18 | So hust setting B[1] to something will work? Nothing to do with the table it's in? |
| 12:22.44 | ZorbaBeta | toptop, A.B[1] = blargl |
| 12:22.55 | ZorbaBeta | or A["B"][1] = blargl |
| 12:23.23 | TopTop18 | Okay thanks! That's the most logical sounding answer :D |
| 12:23.31 | Kalroth | :( |
| 12:23.41 | ZorbaBeta | kalroth did answer first, with the second part at least ;) |
| 12:23.54 | Kalroth | Mine makes most sense too! |
| 12:24.11 | TopTop18 | Yep thanks to Kalroth to :D But I think I prefer the . syntax |
| 12:24.19 | Kalroth | A.B[1] is only allowed because Lua is more type weak than visual basic :p |
| 12:25.02 | ZorbaBeta | note that you can also write that A = {B = {-4}} |
| 12:25.12 | Kalroth | A = {["B"] = {[1] = {["hi"] = "sup"}}}; |
| 12:25.19 | ZorbaBeta | the [" "] isn't required with the contents are a valid identifier, and the first item is, by default, 1 anyway |
| 12:25.29 | ZorbaBeta | A = {b = {{hi = "sup"}}}; |
| 12:25.49 | Kalroth | A["B"][1]["hi"] seems to make more sense than A.B.1["hi"] imo! |
| 12:26.07 | Cide | lua> ({1}).1 |
| 12:26.08 | lua_bot | Cide: luabot:1: syntax error near '.1' |
| 12:26.10 | Cide | ^ |
| 12:26.26 | Kalroth | ^ |
| 12:26.28 | Cide | A.b[1].hi would be valid |
| 12:26.34 | Kalroth | oh |
| 12:26.58 | Kalroth | so it doesn't even work with numbers |
| 12:27.07 | Cide | only with valid variable names |
| 12:27.09 | Kalroth | making [][][] even more superior! |
| 12:27.28 | Cide | . is much superior when it can be used |
| 12:27.29 | ZorbaBeta | but also more verbose, and IMHO used for different meanings |
| 12:27.53 | Cide | [] should be used for dynamic field access as well as for array indexing |
| 12:27.56 | Kalroth | dots are for object calls, not array indices! |
| 12:28.06 | ZorbaBeta | no, : is for object calls :) |
| 12:28.09 | Cide | it's not an array index |
| 12:28.13 | Cide | it's a field lookup |
| 12:28.33 | Kalroth | uhm, same thing? :p |
| 12:28.37 | Cide | no |
| 12:28.41 | Kalroth | it's a pointer to a field |
| 12:29.00 | Cide | low-level they may not be very distinguished, no |
| 12:29.01 | TopTop18 | lua> A = {["B"] = {[1] = -4, [2] = 8}}; A["B"][2] = 1; print(A["B"]) |
| 12:29.02 | lua_bot | TopTop18: table: 0x9dd0c60 |
| 12:29.17 | Kalroth | Sure, we're talking Lua here though, which isn't very low-level :) |
| 12:29.26 | Cide | exactly |
| 12:29.40 | Cide | so . generally has a different meaning than [] |
| 12:29.42 | ZorbaBeta | so why are you trying to boil everything down to a single low-level operator? ;) |
| 12:30.01 | TopTop18 | lua> A = {["B"] = {[1] = -4, [2] = 8}}; A["B"][2] = 1; print(tostring(A["B"])) |
| 12:30.01 | Kalroth | because it's less confusing than using 15 different different operators for the same task |
| 12:30.03 | lua_bot | TopTop18: table: 0x8c25c70 |
| 12:30.21 | TopTop18 | meh, how to avoid that hexadecimal thingy when printing? |
| 12:30.29 | Kalroth | don't print the table :) |
| 12:30.50 | Cide | or use pp() |
| 12:30.53 | Cide | or just print() |
| 12:30.54 | Kalroth | lua> A = {["B"] = {[1] = -4, [2] = 8}}; A["B"][2] = 1; print(A["B"][2]) |
| 12:30.55 | lua_bot | Kalroth: 1 |
| 12:30.57 | krka | [] and . both suck, i only use rawget |
| 12:31.02 | Cide | lua> print({}); pp({}) |
| 12:31.02 | lua_bot | Cide: table: 0x810bed0, { } (#1) |
| 12:31.24 | Cide | lua> a = {1, 2, 3}; pp(a); pp(a); |
| 12:31.24 | lua_bot | Cide: { 1, 2, 3 } (#1), <table: #1> |
| 12:31.52 | krka | lua> A = {["B"] = {[1] = -4, [2] = 8}}; A["B"][2] = 1; print(rawget(rawget(A, "B", 2)) |
| 12:31.52 | lua_bot | krka: luabot:1: ')' expected near '<eof>' |
| 12:31.56 | krka | lua> A = {["B"] = {[1] = -4, [2] = 8}}; A["B"][2] = 1; print(rawget(rawget(A, "B", 2))) |
| 12:31.57 | lua_bot | krka: luabot:1: bad argument #2 to 'rawget' (value expected) |
| 12:32.00 | Kalroth | Fiskered. |
| 12:32.00 | krka | damn it |
| 12:32.04 | krka | lua> A = {["B"] = {[1] = -4, [2] = 8}}; A["B"][2] = 1; print(rawget(rawget(A, "B"), 2)) |
| 12:32.05 | lua_bot | krka: 1 |
| 12:32.07 | krka | yay |
| 12:32.22 | Fisker | Kalroth |
| 12:32.26 | Kalroth | haha |
| 12:32.38 | TopTop18 | Hmm I'll go with the multiple [], the thing I understand how it works now xD |
| 12:33.11 | Kalroth | <o/ **WIN** \o/ **WIN** \o> |
| 12:33.11 | TopTop18 | Fiskered, then new swear |
| 12:34.12 | ZorbaBeta | kalroth, I would argue that, while . and [] have similar end results, they are used for substantially different tasks |
| 12:34.35 | mikma | http://kuvaton.com/kuvei/longcat_plaque.jpg |
| 12:34.38 | Kalroth | "Fiskered" is like "Foiled", only that not only were you denied but you also stepped in a fresh dogpoop and your cellphone ran out of power |
| 12:35.03 | Kalroth | ZorbaBeta: I totally agree, hence I prefer using [] in this context :p |
| 12:35.32 | mikma | haste: http://kuvaton.com/kuvei/sauna_comic.jpg |
| 12:35.42 | krka | . for constants, [] for dynamic |
| 12:38.36 | Kalroth | krka: unless the constant is a number! |
| 12:38.55 | TopTop18 | One more question instead of making A["B"][2]=5, how to make the highest number in table+1 5, is there a simpler way then A["B"][#A["B"]+1]=5 |
| 12:39.17 | TopTop18 | So it just goes as a new entry at the top |
| 12:39.30 | Kalroth | You mean some sort of autoincrement? |
| 12:39.36 | TopTop18 | Yes it's earlya dn there's not enough coffee xD |
| 12:39.59 | TopTop18 | I mean to just add it as a new entry at the top of the array |
| 12:40.18 | Kalroth | hrm |
| 12:40.24 | krka | Kalroth: using numbers for constant keys in tables is stupid |
| 12:40.26 | TopTop18 | And Kalroth, you're great :D |
| 12:40.57 | krka | if t[1] has a special meaning, you should be using t.somemeaningfulname instead |
| 12:41.25 | Kalroth | lua> A = {["B"] = {[1] = -4, [2] = 8}}; table.insert( A["B"], {["test"] = -77}); |
| 12:41.26 | lua_bot | Kalroth: No output |
| 12:41.38 | Kalroth | hooray, it didn't bug but it's probably wrong |
| 12:42.00 | Kalroth | I believe that table.insert() simply appends when no index is given |
| 12:42.35 | TopTop18 | Hmm now I use my great prgramming book, mght table.insert(A["B"], value) work? |
| 12:42.42 | TopTop18 | Ah thanks Kalroth :D |
| 12:42.45 | Kalroth | lua> A = {["B"] = {[1] = -4, [2] = 8}}; table.insert( A["B"], {["test"] = -77}); print(pp(A["B"])); |
| 12:42.46 | lua_bot | Kalroth: { -4, 8, { ["test"] = -77 } (#2) } (#1) |
| 12:43.02 | Kalroth | yeah |
| 12:43.08 | Kalroth | lua> A = {["B"] = {[1] = -4, [2] = 8}}; table.insert( A["B"], -77); print(pp(A["B"])); |
| 12:43.09 | lua_bot | Kalroth: { -4, 8, -77 } (#1) |
| 12:43.11 | Kalroth | like this |
| 12:43.24 | TopTop18 | Yep thanks, got it all clear now :D |
| 12:45.51 | TopTop18 | Getting pretty proud of my code now :D |
| 12:48.13 | Kalroth | Don't worry, you only need to paste in here once, then they'll tear it down! |
| 12:48.24 | TopTop18 | Probably xD |
| 12:48.54 | TopTop18 | Glueing some ends together and I'll apste it here to get it ripped apart |
| 12:49.21 | TopTop18 | And I prefer to see tearing it down as feedback |
| 12:51.06 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (n=stolenle@86.33.207.79) |
| 12:51.24 | haste | mikma: :D |
| 12:57.14 | TopTop18 | And another question: I have my table A with several keys that are strings, I want to retrieve the name of every key in table A. Howto? |
| 12:59.23 | jnwhiteh | TopTop18: for k,v in pairs(_G) do if type(k) == "string" then print(k) end |
| 12:59.29 | jnwhiteh | lua> for k,v in pairs(_G) do if type(k) == "string" then print(k) end |
| 12:59.30 | lua_bot | jnwhiteh: luabot:1: 'end' expected near '<eof>' |
| 12:59.33 | jnwhiteh | lua> for k,v in pairs(_G) do if type(k) == "string" then print(k) end end |
| 12:59.34 | lua_bot | jnwhiteh: string, xpcall, tostring, print, lpeg, strtrim, os, unpack, strjoin, getfenv, strconcat, setmetatable, next, assert, tonumber, strsplit, rawequal, md5, collectgarbage, getmetatable, rawset, pp, prettyprint, bit, math, pcall, table, newproxy, type, coroutine, _G, select, pairs, rawget, loadstring, ip... (result truncated) |
| 12:59.35 | jnwhiteh | for example |
| 13:00.08 | TopTop18 | ah thanks :D |
| 13:07.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (n=elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 13:08.23 | TopTop18 | Okay I'm ready for feedback :D This is my addon with the database forming and sharing complete. And Yes I will change variable names, fix local stuff and add comments later |
| 13:08.23 | TopTop18 | http://toptop18.pastey.net/127004 |
| 13:12.29 | Pneumatus | the nesting looks weird/wrong :o |
| 13:13.07 | Pneumatus | your OnLoad() is missing an end at the appropriate place or something |
| 13:13.52 | jnwhiteh | http://toptop18.pastey.net/127006 |
| 13:13.56 | jnwhiteh | fixed it for you=) |
| 13:14.01 | jnwhiteh | err |
| 13:14.01 | jnwhiteh | no |
| 13:14.03 | jnwhiteh | wtf |
| 13:14.24 | jnwhiteh | there we go |
| 13:14.31 | Pneumatus | and why do you need FF_DKP_Manager as well as LoadFrame, just use a single frame for the lot |
| 13:16.48 | Pneumatus | it looks like you're creating a few frames that you don't really need actually |
| 13:17.57 | TopTop18 | Jnwhiteh, what did you correct oO? Can you highlight the lines? :D |
| 13:18.03 | jnwhiteh | indenting. |
| 13:18.05 | jnwhiteh | that' sit |
| 13:18.15 | jnwhiteh | cause it was _fooooked_ |
| 13:18.29 | Pneumatus | also, you're sending messages with the prefix FF_DKP_Manager, then checking for if prefix == "[FF] DKP Manager" |
| 13:18.50 | Pneumatus | infact, your sending messages with multiple prefixes |
| 13:18.56 | TopTop18 | Pneumatus, though I fixed that xD |
| 13:19.08 | TopTop18 | sec looking at it again |
| 13:19.10 | Pneumatus | line 200 |
| 13:19.35 | Pneumatus | well, 193/200 use different prefixes to the rest |
| 13:20.03 | Pneumatus | you really shouldn't be creating multiple frames to listen for different (or, infact, the same) events |
| 13:20.10 | Pneumatus | when a single frame would be sufficient |
| 13:20.44 | TopTop18 | You mean different frames for different functions? |
| 13:21.12 | TopTop18 | Think it's need as Seed() will not load for everyone |
| 13:21.35 | TopTop18 | It can be avoided but that will make the thing messier I think |
| 13:21.51 | TopTop18 | And Jnwhiteh, That indenting I have now have a reason :D |
| 13:22.00 | jnwhiteh | ... |
| 13:22.03 | jnwhiteh | i doubt the reason is a good one |
| 13:22.23 | jnwhiteh | to arbitrarily have the 6th line of code indented O.o |
| 13:22.28 | Pneumatus | i'm struggling to understand your logic |
| 13:22.55 | Pneumatus | and alll your FF_DKP_Manager functions are wrapped inside of FF_DKP_Manager:OnLoad() |
| 13:23.03 | TopTop18 | If I create a frame all lines that have to do with that frame will be indented |
| 13:23.09 | jnwhiteh | then use scope |
| 13:23.09 | jnwhiteh | do |
| 13:23.10 | jnwhiteh | end |
| 13:23.12 | jnwhiteh | don't just do it |
| 13:23.15 | jnwhiteh | its confusing and makes no sense |
| 13:23.23 | jnwhiteh | makes the code incredibly difficult to read |
| 13:23.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Ose (n=chatzill@wikia/Ose) |
| 13:23.28 | jnwhiteh | tho i don't think you should be doing it at all |
| 13:24.03 | Gnarfoz | ahaha http://lh6.ggpht.com/_COt6T7Tmrok/SuBPtuBzfvI/AAAAAAAAAoo/LHskug3S_-E/s1152/dsc_1576.jpg nice. |
| 13:24.17 | TopTop18 | Pneumatus, what's the bad thing about that? |
| 13:24.41 | TopTop18 | Jnwhiteh, Okay, thanks for correcting :D |
| 13:25.41 | Pneumatus | it's weird :o |
| 13:25.51 | TopTop18 | What's weird about it :S |
| 13:26.43 | jnwhiteh | its just not how thing are normally done, at al |
| 13:27.01 | jnwhiteh | but you can do it any way you want, heh |
| 13:28.23 | Pneumatus | i don't see why you'd want to wait for OnLoad() to create all your functions, that's all |
| 13:28.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Corrodias (i=no@75.17.196.43) |
| 13:29.46 | Pneumatus | also, you don't unregister events you're not worried about anymore |
| 13:30.14 | TopTop18 | That's a good point will correct it now :D |
| 13:30.18 | Pneumatus | LoadFrame becomes useless once ADDON_LOADED fires for your addon |
| 13:31.20 | TopTop18 | Yes, unregistered that event there |
| 13:31.48 | TopTop18 | And Loadframe is probably there, cause some information is not available before ADDON_LOADED fires |
| 13:32.00 | TopTop18 | Although i can;t remind what info |
| 13:32.09 | Pneumatus | the SV table |
| 13:32.39 | Pneumatus | but i also think you should be using your main addon frame for CHAT_MSG_ADDON rather than creating 2 new frames for it |
| 13:33.37 | Pneumatus | you've got a lot of code that is only ever called once |
| 13:33.40 | Pneumatus | in separate functions |
| 13:34.54 | Pneumatus | infact, it seems even worse than that, every GUILD_ROSTER_UPDATE and every PLAYER_GUILD_UPDATE you potentially call a bunch of functions that then create frames over and over |
| 13:36.22 | Pneumatus | ALSO you should probably use guild rank indexes, or actually check WoW permissions from ranks to decide what you're going to let the user have access to, rather than hardcoding strings |
| 13:36.48 | Pneumatus | so check rank to see if it can use officer chat or something |
| 13:37.13 | *** join/#wowuidev aoki (n=aoki@222.44.190.179) |
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| 13:39.49 | TopTop18 | Yes was going to do that later on, when I'm also making settings |
| 13:40.03 | TopTop18 | For now it's only for my own guild and this's sufficient |
| 13:40.41 | TopTop18 | And PGU will trigger the rechecking nad creating of event so that when your guildrank changes your frames and permissions will change directly |
| 13:41.08 | TopTop18 | If you know a better way to do it I'd love to hear it :D |
| 13:41.28 | TopTop18 | And what do you do with code that's only run once? Is it bad or? |
| 13:42.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (n=chatzill@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 13:42.22 | TopTop18 | Ye as I see now PGU and GRU must be changed, thanks |
| 13:43.18 | TopTop18 | There's still some useless stuff from previous experiments |
| 13:44.06 | Pneumatus | the Seed() and CreateAdminFrame() functions should only ever be run once because all they do are create frames but potentially are being called multiple times |
| 13:44.59 | TopTop18 | They will only be called again if PGU fires, that's only fired when your guildrank changes, so when you get promoted you will directly ahve access to the admin options |
| 13:45.18 | Pneumatus | i guess it's your design decision to put them in functions to make it easier to follow, but then GetUpdates() both creates a frame and has some other logic... the frame should only be created once but i guess the logic should be run multiple times |
| 13:45.42 | Pneumatus | in which case you need to check that you havn't created the frame previously before you try and recreate it, i'd imagine |
| 13:46.31 | TopTop18 | Hmm yes you're right |
| 13:47.00 | Pneumatus | finally, you're using your minimap button to manage all of the rank stuff which doesn't really make sense |
| 13:47.40 | *** join/#wowuidev TopTop18 (n=TopTop18@ip231-37-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 13:47.47 | TopTop18 | stupid router |
| 13:48.15 | Pneumatus | imo you should have your main addon frame which manages addon_loaded, chat_msg_addon and all the rank stuff, and leave graphical frames to be graphical :) |
| 13:48.37 | Pneumatus | if you decide you want to Hide() your minimap button (because minimap pox is the devil anyway) you're rank stuff stops working |
| 13:49.20 | TopTop18 | Hmm ye i've got to recreate that bit |
| 13:49.55 | TopTop18 | But I still think it's good to have a seperate frame for every permission function |
| 13:50.59 | TopTop18 | And actually it's not really a minimapbutton, cause it's just a frame that's standard anchored to the minimap but can be dragged everywhere xD |
| 13:53.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@cpe-67-246-40-12.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 13:53.27 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 13:58.52 | TopTop18 | Oh wait, you're right pneumatus |
| 13:59.15 | TopTop18 | it might be much better instead of creating a new frame to add the behaviour to the general frame |
| 14:03.44 | Pneumatus | your FF_DKP_Manager could just be the general frame |
| 14:03.53 | Pneumatus | it's still a table remember |
| 14:04.58 | Pneumatus | you might want to have a look at a few of tekkub's simple addons for an idea on how he does things as an example |
| 14:17.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Odlaw (i=ozzy@c-98-245-3-204.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 14:18.31 | Ackis | rawr i am a pumpkin! |
| 14:19.02 | Lopeppeppy | is good ya? |
| 14:19.16 | Ackis | yup |
| 14:23.55 | Lopeppeppy | can has nap? |
| 14:25.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Balreign (n=Balreign@ANantes-156-1-119-13.w90-12.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 14:25.59 | Ackis | nope |
| 14:26.03 | Ackis | no nap 4 u |
| 14:26.10 | aoki | does anybody know why my wow get stucked so much.... |
| 14:26.44 | Lopeppeppy | not enough memory, bad network connection...? |
| 14:26.51 | Lopeppeppy | Depends on what you mean by "stucked" |
| 14:28.09 | Ackis | man they need some software that auto fills in birthday bullshit required by some sites |
| 14:28.50 | ZorbaBeta | oh man, 2 masks left |
| 14:29.16 | Ackis | ZorbaBeta: quit playing wow and do more keylogging |
| 14:29.19 | aoki | sorry...i'm not an english speaker... it's hard to describe...it's just my game can not be run fluently |
| 14:29.47 | aoki | the ubuntu system, but it's fine in win 7 |
| 14:34.39 | Ackis | Fisker: how goes borderlands, lfd2 and sc2? |
| 14:36.09 | Jerub | k, turns out scrub dps doesn't help faction chamsp. people left, people arrived, we killed valkyrs on 5th aattempt, and killed the last boss on the first try |
| 14:36.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan@c-76-107-191-65.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 14:36.13 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 14:38.39 | ZorbaBeta | valkyrs is fun |
| 14:38.47 | ZorbaBeta | it's one of the few bosses I actually wish lasted longer |
| 14:45.38 | Kraps | why does http://www.youtube.com/user/universalmusicgroup use such low res videos? |
| 14:46.07 | Lopeppeppy | So people are less tempted to swipe them? |
| 14:46.52 | *** join/#wowuidev mruseful (i=robots@armory.bot.nu) |
| 14:48.20 | haste | Kraps: so pirates won't rip them! |
| 14:48.37 | Kraps | hmm |
| 14:48.44 | Ackis | Fisker: http://kotaku.com/5387828/ :( DRM = cancer |
| 14:52.21 | bleeter | anyone tried http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/10/22/psystars-rebel-efi-allows-you-to-install-mac-os-x-on-any-pc-no-crazy-hackintoshing-required/ yet? |
| 14:54.42 | Kraps | MW2 is 60 bucks |
| 14:54.46 | Kraps | :( |
| 14:55.10 | zenzelezz | http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1222091/Giant-seagull-Australia-invades-news-bulletin.html |
| 14:55.18 | Lopeppeppy | what will Peppy do today? |
| 14:55.33 | zenzelezz | I'm sure we can come up with something |
| 14:57.39 | bleeter | zenzelezz: hitchener shrank in the wash |
| 14:57.40 | Corrodias | Ackis: next up, game "expiration" dates |
| 14:57.47 | Corrodias | and now, i'm off to work. bye. |
| 14:58.51 | zenzelezz | http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=85017&page=8 <-- last post... can someone say "TL;DR"? |
| 14:59.05 | Lopeppeppy | tldr |
| 14:59.40 | zenzelezz | thank you |
| 15:00.01 | Lopeppeppy | welcome |
| 15:03.19 | Kraps | zenzelezz: oh i read that |
| 15:03.26 | Kraps | HAHAHAHA |
| 15:03.28 | Lopeppeppy | you did? |
| 15:03.55 | Kraps | sorry no |
| 15:04.15 | cog|sleep | Shirik|AFK: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1610551/when-where-was-most-vexing-parse-coined |
| 15:04.23 | zenzelezz | Lopeppeppy: the thread is full of entertainment if you like people complaining about the openness or lack thereof in addons; which addons are better than others; whether they should be compatible, and the odd political fight |
| 15:05.12 | mikma | what's the max charlimit when creating a name for character? |
| 15:05.24 | haste | mikma: 12 |
| 15:05.53 | mikma | haste: ty |
| 15:06.35 | batrick | Good knowing how big the buffer needs to be in your addon |
| 15:07.13 | haste | batrick: yes, you never know when one of the buffer overflows will make the addon crash your game! |
| 15:07.21 | batrick | indeed |
| 15:07.56 | zenzelezz | "Well, yeah, but here's another type that matches the size of a void*: It's called void*. " |
| 15:08.00 | batrick | grading proofs for this discrete math homework has made me very bitter and facetious tonight : / |
| 15:08.06 | zenzelezz | I for one really like Raymond Chen's way of writing |
| 15:08.27 | batrick | that doesn't even mean anything... |
| 15:10.18 | Cide | now seems like a great time to promote myself |
| 15:10.45 | Cide | I'm conducting a survey to get a picture of how people feel about surveillance functions in software. If you have raiding experience we would be very happy if you could help us out. if you want to help out, head over to http://www.ctmod.net/survey/ -- thanks |
| 15:11.26 | cog|work | Cide: does it actually work now? |
| 15:11.28 | cog|work | :P |
| 15:11.32 | Cide | yup |
| 15:12.44 | zenzelezz | woo, it worked |
| 15:15.06 | cog|work | Cide: U R NUB!! |
| 15:15.09 | Cide | ohyeah! |
| 15:15.31 | cog|work | unanonymizes himself |
| 15:16.00 | cog|work | sues himself for breach of privacy |
| 15:16.21 | cog|work | represents himself on both sides and sticks it to himself in fees |
| 15:16.27 | Cide | ... |
| 15:16.45 | Lopeppeppy | kinky |
| 15:20.03 | batrick | has at last found the F paper for the discrete math accreditation crap. |
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| 15:32.11 | Kraps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZGajz8cgi4&feature=popt00us10 |
| 15:32.49 | *** join/#wowuidev shadowfaux (n=shadowfa@host213-122-109-80.range213-122.btcentralplus.com) |
| 15:34.46 | cog|work | zomgoldnews |
| 15:40.45 | Kraps | so whats the movie 2012 about? the world is destroyed and everyone dies, the end? |
| 15:44.54 | Gnarfoz | find out in 2012, I guess |
| 15:47.58 | Kraps | no i mean, doesnt the movie end with everyone dying, because thats whats supposedly gonna happen |
| 15:48.07 | *** join/#wowuidev kdtresh_0079 (n=kdtresh@76.212.99.109) |
| 15:50.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (n=elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 15:55.02 | cog|work | Fekkin lazy Mayans. Why couldn't they have built a longer calendar so the would wouldn't end in 2012? QQ |
| 15:56.12 | Lopeppeppy | It doesn't. That's a misconception. |
| 15:56.23 | Lopeppeppy | A cycle ends, but not necessarily The Big Everything. |
| 15:58.41 | cog|work | i no rite? why didn't the world end last december when our calendar ran out? |
| 15:58.50 | Lopeppeppy | for serious |
| 15:58.58 | Lopeppeppy | Ours runs out every bloody year, we just recycle and get on with it. |
| 15:59.15 | zenzelezz | the world is only what, 4.5 billion years old? To think that it would suddenly die now seems stupid |
| 16:00.09 | cog|work | s/seems/is/ |
| 16:00.13 | cog|work | imo |
| 16:00.18 | zenzelezz | concur |
| 16:00.39 | cog|work | now, 2036 on the other hand... |
| 16:00.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (n=Lunessa@WoWUIDev/Lunessa) |
| 16:00.58 | cog|work | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/99942_Apophis |
| 16:01.25 | Lopeppeppy | morning, lunessa |
| 16:01.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Ruck (n=bleh@pool-72-86-106-233.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 16:01.33 | Lunessa | Morning. |
| 16:01.39 | cog|work | Lunessa: i posted about your mount ;) |
| 16:02.17 | Lopeppeppy | rawr? |
| 16:02.18 | Lunessa | Haha... I won with a 34. That's hawt |
| 16:02.21 | Lopeppeppy | Horsie? |
| 16:02.34 | Lunessa | http://groundingtotem.com/forums/thread/36 |
| 16:03.52 | Lopeppeppy | Sweeeeet |
| 16:05.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan (n=pancake@cpe-174-098-002-214.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 16:05.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Beladona1 (n=Beladona@97.97.212.0) |
| 16:08.06 | cog|work | is gear manager client or server side? |
| 16:08.56 | Gnarfoz | the stored sets you mean? no idea :\ |
| 16:09.01 | cog|work | aye |
| 16:09.11 | nevcairiel | its stored server side, iirc |
| 16:12.30 | Gnarfoz | cog|work: fun, I hope I'll be around for that |
| 16:13.27 | *** part/#wowuidev Beladona1 (n=Beladona@97.97.212.0) |
| 16:13.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Beladona1 (n=Beladona@97.97.212.0) |
| 16:13.33 | *** part/#wowuidev Beladona1 (n=Beladona@97.97.212.0) |
| 16:13.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Beladona (n=Beladona@97.97.212.0) |
| 16:13.55 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Beladona] by ChanServ |
| 16:15.18 | Lopeppeppy | Marcaine kicks ass. |
| 16:15.40 | nevcairiel | We're also running into the next season of stronger sun activity in the next centuries, so we'll see how that turns out =P |
| 16:15.52 | Lopeppeppy | mmm, sunspots! |
| 16:23.05 | NightHawkTheSane | yay, stronger sun activity! |
| 16:29.10 | cog|work | 2 global warmings for the price of one! |
| 16:29.24 | Lopeppeppy | BOGO |
| 16:30.12 | zenzelezz | http://chan.sankakucomplex.com/data/ec/4f/ec4f8d14d8fb3bd4d6af89e23344a7d7.jpg -- got to wonder what's in it |
| 16:31.00 | Lopeppeppy | mysteries |
| 16:36.57 | *** join/#wowuidev olafski (n=egrimm@dream.student.utwente.nl) |
| 16:37.59 | Lunessa | Mysteries and the blood of innocents |
| 16:38.06 | Lopeppeppy | nom nom nom |
| 16:38.26 | NightHawkTheSane | zenzelezz: there are some things the world is better off not knowing |
| 16:39.58 | zenzelezz | got to love our government. Pushing for bio diesel and whatnot, and then they go and put a $.54/liter fee/tax thing on it, making it in total more expensive than regular diesel. Score! |
| 16:42.51 | Lopeppeppy | :) |
| 16:47.06 | NightHawkTheSane | do i HAVE to love our government? |
| 16:47.12 | NightHawkTheSane | can't i love someone elses government? |
| 16:47.22 | zenzelezz | well, my "our" meant "mine", but "our" sounded nicer |
| 16:47.31 | durcyn | biodiesel won't be anything but a boondoggle until they stop trying to use fucking corn for it |
| 16:48.00 | NightHawkTheSane | soylentdiesel! |
| 16:48.22 | NightHawkTheSane | solve overpopulation, idiocy, and the fuel crisis in one fel swoop! |
| 16:48.24 | durcyn | no, seriously, there's more energy potential in grass than corn. |
| 16:48.31 | zenzelezz | they should just invent a car that runs on repressed sexual frustration |
| 16:48.41 | cog|work | Lunessa: i has a dual talent nao =) |
| 16:48.55 | durcyn | the only upside is that raising corn prices has encouraged the use of natural sugar instead of high-fructose-this-is-why-youre-fat-america-syrup |
| 16:48.58 | Lunessa | You can has Fury or Prot? |
| 16:49.02 | cog|work | prot |
| 16:49.03 | kdtresh_0079 | zenzelezz: forget car, they should run cities on it :P |
| 16:49.24 | NightHawkTheSane | kdtresh_0079, zenzelezz: pfft. I think I could power all of seattle. |
| 16:49.28 | NightHawkTheSane | er.. wait.. >.> |
| 16:49.36 | NightHawkTheSane | coughs uncomfortably. |
| 16:50.27 | Lopeppeppy | mouse |
| 16:50.45 | Fisker | slaps Lopeppeppy around a bit with a large trout |
| 16:51.01 | Lunessa | I already know I'm fat. |
| 16:51.03 | Lopeppeppy | ~Fisker++ |
| 16:51.13 | Lopeppeppy | Be nice to Peppy |
| 16:51.21 | zenzelezz | is nice to peppy |
| 16:51.38 | Fisker | i give you free fish and i'm not nice? |
| 16:52.02 | NightHawkTheSane | slaps a large trout around a bit with Fisker |
| 16:52.45 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@87.62.107.174) |
| 16:56.59 | cog|work | Lunessa: who should i hit up for gems? |
| 16:57.46 | Lunessa | cog|work: My warlock can do basic cuts and a few epic melee cuts, but Beor or Corei has a bigger list of cuts known. |
| 16:57.56 | cog|work | kk |
| 16:58.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Eol (n=KVIrc@206.169.169.1) |
| 16:59.15 | Eol | Does anyone know if there is a "dictionary" or "hashtable" available in LUA? |
| 16:59.30 | cog|work | Eol: the only data structure in lua is the table |
| 16:59.33 | cog|work | which is exactly that |
| 16:59.51 | cog|work | (plus optimizations for array parts--i.e. integer indexes) |
| 17:00.05 | cog|work | http://lua.org/pil |
| 17:00.17 | Eol | thanks |
| 17:00.46 | Shirik | Cide: It's faster? |
| 17:00.47 | Shirik | Using my code? |
| 17:00.49 | Cide | yes |
| 17:00.56 | Shirik | that's odd |
| 17:00.57 | Cide | by like 10^3 |
| 17:01.01 | Shirik | I'm not kidding |
| 17:01.11 | Shirik | what took 10 seconds for ...[i] took 0.8 seconds for select |
| 17:01.24 | Shirik | what was your test code? |
| 17:01.27 | batrick | you probably have the numbers backwards |
| 17:01.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Bibi (n=Bibi@80.214.253.81) |
| 17:02.27 | Bruners | Fisker: how much money did you get ? http://lokalavisen.dk/article/20091023/ARTIKLER/910239959/1052# |
| 17:02.33 | Cide | function test(num, ...) local clock = os.clock; local t; local len = select('#', ...); local start = clock(); for j = 1, num do for i = 1, len do t=...[i]; end end print(clock()-start); end |
| 17:02.40 | Cide | test(10, 2^12) |
| 17:02.58 | Cide | and then another version with t=select(i, ...); |
| 17:03.07 | Cide | er |
| 17:03.11 | Cide | tet(10, range(2^12)) |
| 17:03.14 | Cide | test(10, range(2^12)) |
| 17:03.22 | Shirik | wtb implementation of range() :P |
| 17:03.52 | Shirik | for the record I was doing it with 40 elements |
| 17:03.53 | Shirik | not 2^12 |
| 17:03.57 | Cide | function range(i) if i == 1 then return 1; end return 1, range(i-1); end |
| 17:04.47 | Shirik | your test code didn't print anything wtf :/ |
| 17:04.57 | Shirik | oh |
| 17:05.00 | Shirik | I need to call it lol |
| 17:05.05 | Cide | ... |
| 17:05.33 | Shirik | you're right |
| 17:05.34 | Lopeppeppy | gives shirik a quarter |
| 17:05.37 | batrick | i don't think sleep helped him any |
| 17:05.47 | Shirik | ...[i] is .003 and select(i, ...) is 1.813 |
| 17:06.03 | Cide | try test(100, 40) |
| 17:06.56 | Shirik | had to do 10000 instead of 100 |
| 17:07.02 | Shirik | but select is still slower |
| 17:07.08 | Shirik | I must have been doing the test wrong somehow |
| 17:07.19 | Cide | hardly surprising given your current state |
| 17:07.20 | Shirik | or there might be a bytecode problem somewhere |
| 17:07.26 | Shirik | but I did it twice |
| 17:07.35 | Cide | also |
| 17:07.40 | Cide | if the syntax was changed to ...@a |
| 17:07.49 | Cide | you should be able to do it for all lists right? |
| 17:07.53 | Cide | not only ... |
| 17:08.06 | Cide | i.e. range(10)@5 --> 5 |
| 17:08.30 | Cide | (the range implementation I gave you gives you a list of just 1's, but my C one does 1...n) |
| 17:08.51 | Shirik | I think a new opcode would have to be devised for that |
| 17:09.07 | Shirik | because currently the implementation relies on B being an offset from ci->base |
| 17:09.19 | Shirik | or rather, RB(i) |
| 17:09.20 | Cide | that's what I thought |
| 17:09.36 | batrick | it would be incredibly complicated |
| 17:09.48 | Shirik | it may be impossible to make safe |
| 17:09.53 | Shirik | or at least extremely difficult |
| 17:10.02 | Shirik | jumping off the stack is difficult to detect |
| 17:10.11 | Shirik | because you don't know the number of returns from range() at compile time |
| 17:10.40 | Cide | do you need to know it at compile time? |
| 17:10.57 | Cide | couldn't you invoke a transparent func call to select() or similar? |
| 17:11.16 | Cide | yes, I know that's broadly and abstractly speaking :P |
| 17:11.24 | batrick | at compile time you dictate how the exp(list) is adjusted |
| 17:11.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 17:12.27 | batrick | I think it's more trouble than it's worth personally |
| 17:12.36 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (i=harl@dslb-088-077-208-144.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:12.42 | batrick | although some sort of change to access varargs without select is very necessary |
| 17:13.01 | batrick | Shirik: are you going to add a #... next? |
| 17:13.28 | Shirik | I thought about it |
| 17:13.35 | Shirik | it would be trivial in the VM |
| 17:13.37 | batrick | !lua return (function (...) return #... end)({}) |
| 17:13.37 | batbot | batrick: > 0 |
| 17:13.46 | batrick | because you need to think about that ^ |
| 17:13.46 | Shirik | oh it's already a legal operation? :( |
| 17:14.05 | batrick | legal syntax** |
| 17:14.44 | batrick | perhaps make it a suffix operator |
| 17:14.46 | Shirik | (13:12:31) (batrick) although some sort of change to access varargs without select is very necessary |
| 17:14.48 | Shirik | select is a hack |
| 17:14.49 | Shirik | and just plain bad |
| 17:14.49 | batrick | that is, ...# |
| 17:15.07 | Shirik | that's certainly possible |
| 17:15.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Gotai (n=Gotai@ip54546435.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl) |
| 17:15.16 | Shirik | though a bit counterintuitive |
| 17:15.24 | batrick | possibly |
| 17:15.36 | batrick | but then, so is ...[1] |
| 17:15.54 | Shirik | again, I already complained about the subtlties between ...[1] and (...)[1] |
| 17:15.56 | Shirik | you failed to speak up! |
| 17:16.00 | Shirik | I have to go, I'll be back in a bit |
| 17:16.13 | batrick | so it's my fault your syntax sucks? :P |
| 17:16.24 | batrick | bye nonfriend |
| 17:16.39 | Lopeppeppy | bye friend |
| 17:17.44 | Lunessa | http://xkcd.com/653/ |
| 17:18.24 | Lopeppeppy | coincidence, i'm watching star trek |
| 17:23.49 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (n=nevin@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 17:23.49 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 17:26.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Beladona1 (n=Beladona@97.97.212.0) |
| 17:28.35 | Gnarfoz | gah, is there any way to permanently remove the combatlog window? |
| 17:28.52 | NightHawkTheSane | some days, i want to brutally murder the guy who thought up asynchronous http requests from javascript |
| 17:29.14 | NightHawkTheSane | Gnarfoz: couldn't you just stick it in the same tab as your general window and ignore it? |
| 17:29.15 | alestane | Gnarfoz: More than just docking it into the main chatframe? |
| 17:29.17 | Gnarfoz | so that it doesn't reinsert itself between tab1 and 3 on each reload/login and the quickbar disappears etc? (chat addons also don't treat it as a chat window, really. can't change history length, timestamps, etc.) |
| 17:30.01 | Gnarfoz | alestane: well, it screws up the tab order |
| 17:30.13 | Gnarfoz | if I only had one tab, that's of course the solution |
| 17:30.38 | Gnarfoz | NightHawkTheSane: you mean the same thing, right, just worded differently? |
| 17:30.50 | NightHawkTheSane | yes |
| 17:31.06 | NightHawkTheSane | why does tab order matter that much? |
| 17:31.12 | NightHawkTheSane | or is it just an anal retentive thing? :P |
| 17:31.30 | Lunessa | Gnarfoz: I've never found a way to make it be anything but the second tab. I didn't put a lot of effort into it though. |
| 17:32.18 | Gnarfoz | NightHawkTheSane: it's a "I don't use the combat log tab, but I want to use multiple chat tabs" thing. it's just sitting there, as Tab #2, doing nothing but taking up space :D |
| 17:32.30 | Gnarfoz | it's basically junk lying in the way. ;> |
| 17:32.36 | NightHawkTheSane | so, its an "i'm anal retentive about my ui" thing ;) |
| 17:32.54 | Gnarfoz | right... |
| 17:32.59 | NightHawkTheSane | i suggest psychological counselling, personaly. :P |
| 17:33.21 | foxlit | http://aefiel.blogspot.com/2008/04/random-rants.html << teehee |
| 17:33.22 | NightHawkTheSane | with work, you, too, can overcome inane OCD. ;) |
| 17:33.39 | zenzelezz | NHTS knows quite a bit about anal retentivity |
| 17:33.42 | Gnarfoz | in this economical crisis, clowns seem to get cheaper and cheaper, normal food just more expensive |
| 17:33.59 | Lopeppeppy | how much work? |
| 17:34.01 | NightHawkTheSane | zenzelezz: after several nights with your mom, yep. |
| 17:34.06 | Lopeppeppy | whips out the schedule and blocks out 6.3 minutes per day |
| 17:34.08 | Gnarfoz | or what's the reason you had a clown for breakfast today :D |
| 17:34.13 | zenzelezz | Gnarfoz: I didn't know clowns were considered food |
| 17:34.29 | Gnarfoz | well, they are, and they make you be funny all day long |
| 17:34.42 | NightHawkTheSane | clowns aren't really that filling, though |
| 17:34.49 | NightHawkTheSane | lots of fluff, not much substance. |
| 17:37.32 | Gnarfoz | anyway, I don't get how you went from "the chat window is this wide, I'd like to use 3 tabs, the combatlog insists on adding a fourth, non-invisible, empty and useless tab in the middle of it, this sucks" to "you're anal retentive" and "OCD" (I'll go look up what's that even supposed to mean now. :p) |
| 17:37.59 | Lopeppeppy | obsexxive compulsive disorder |
| 17:38.02 | Lopeppeppy | type a personality |
| 17:38.05 | Lopeppeppy | anal retentive |
| 17:38.13 | Lopeppeppy | overly perfectionist |
| 17:38.14 | Dagmar | The people who like their pencils tidy. |
| 17:38.17 | Dagmar | Nothing wrong with that. |
| 17:38.28 | Dagmar | cleans his workspace some more. |
| 17:38.38 | Lopeppeppy | long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else's life, blessed be the OCD |
| 17:38.53 | Dagmar | You could perform surgery on my desk space. |
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| 17:39.17 | Dagmar | I would get a little pissed about it, but it would be clean when you started. |
| 17:39.30 | alestane | You can perform surgery nearly anywhere if you're determined. |
| 17:39.31 | Gnarfoz | meh, I went back and added the second quote after having already written the stuff in the parentheses - OCD I knew, "anal-retentive" just looked like a plain insult :P |
| 17:39.40 | Gnarfoz | (however, I looked it up now and know better) |
| 17:40.51 | NightHawkTheSane | Gnarfoz: i didn't really mean either as an insult. mostly just teasing. ;) But it is kinda, you could just let it go and ignore the tab entirely. |
| 17:40.55 | Dagmar | alestane: If you don't mind your patient bursting open from all the bacteria later |
| 17:41.49 | NeoTron | somehow I think this file got corrupted: 0 -rw-r--r-- 1 neotron neotron 185518492420669440 Oct 21 11:08 /home/neotron/.centericq/.../about |
| 17:42.00 | NeoTron | if I counted right, that's a file with an 18 petabyte hole |
| 17:42.14 | NightHawkTheSane | every time i see if( false==$foo ) in this code, i want to kill a puppy. |
| 17:42.53 | Dagmar | NeoTron: The file? no. The filesystem |
| 17:42.58 | Cide | NeoTron: nou |
| 17:43.10 | Dagmar | Run fsck now |
| 17:43.18 | Cide | fsck me |
| 17:43.30 | Gnarfoz | NightHawkTheSane: trouble is, in default UI scenario, that would probably be easy, seeing how the tabs fade into oblivion when the cursor is not there. however, that's not the case here. so basically, it being there is a Blizz thing (and I'll now go on a journey to find out more about possibilities of killing it dead) it being more annoying than usual, a symptom of using addons (intentionally, of course) |
| 17:43.32 | Dagmar | ...after unmounting that fs first, of course |
| 17:44.01 | NeoTron | nah I'm doing a live read only fsck |
| 17:44.05 | NeoTron | to see if it find anything |
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| 17:44.13 | Dagmar | That can't fix anything. |
| 17:44.22 | Dagmar | I doubt you have an 18Pb file |
| 17:44.24 | NightHawkTheSane | Gnarfoz: ah, yeah, I have my tabs set to fade away, so it really doesn't bother me, even if i never use the combat log. *shrug* |
| 17:44.55 | Cide | disk space is cheap |
| 17:44.56 | NeoTron | I know it can't fix anything |
| 17:45.06 | NeoTron | and the file is an 18 Pb hole |
| 17:45.13 | NeoTron | i.e open file, seek to 18 pb, close file |
| 17:45.18 | NeoTron | as you can see it's 0 bytes long |
| 17:45.20 | Gnarfoz | I've not used tabs for the last 5 years, I just had the idea of trying them out once again earlier |
| 17:45.58 | Dagmar | The phrase is "sparse file". |
| 17:46.06 | Dagmar | If you made it on purpose then fine. |
| 17:46.56 | NeoTron | I didn't |
| 17:47.44 | NeoTron | funny thing is that centerim gladly was reading that file |
| 17:47.52 | NeoTron | and reading... and reading and so on |
| 17:47.58 | Dagmar | If it's actually a sparse file then it's fine to be read |
| 17:48.14 | Dagmar | The OS will merrily take those blocks that don't really exist and feed them to you with nulls as if they did. |
| 17:48.29 | Dagmar | If it's _not_ a sparse file then you have filesystem corruption. |
| 17:48.48 | NeoTron | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:49.33 | Ackis | http://www.dragonagejourneys.com/ |
| 17:49.46 | Seerah | *gasp!* http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/community/comics/gallery.html#305 |
| 17:50.16 | Arrowmaster | i accidentally just did chmod -R 644 * instead of chmod -R u+rwX,g+rX,o+rX * |
| 17:51.16 | Arrowmaster | well everything started at 600 so i could have just done a+r |
| 17:51.48 | NeoTron | will be back, got a disk to fsck. :P |
| 17:51.50 | mikma | does Button:Click() work within combat? I'm trying to create a keybind for my addon so it'll execute the secure button when i press a key :) |
| 17:52.09 | alestane | That is possible, but not like that. |
| 17:52.25 | alestane | See the WoWWiki entry on Bindings.xml. |
| 17:52.34 | Arrowmaster | keybind it to the button frame and it will execute Button:Click() securely for you |
| 17:53.29 | mikma | i did MyButton:Click() in Bindings.xml |
| 17:53.42 | Arrowmaster | yeah dont |
| 17:54.24 | Arrowmaster | <Binding name="CLICK TargetFrame:RightButton"></Binding> |
| 17:54.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Tinyboom (n=nahh@62.84-49-89.nextgentel.com) |
| 17:55.14 | alestane | I believe you need to have some kind of Lua code in the Binding tag, even if it's only "do end". |
| 17:55.16 | Arrowmaster | you might need a dummy comment inside the code block |
| 17:55.16 | *** join/#wowuidev robotusch (n=robotusc@50A2DA6F.flatrate.dk) |
| 17:55.29 | Arrowmaster | wowwiki says a comment is enough |
| 17:55.40 | Tepel | That's silly |
| 17:55.45 | Arrowmaster | although lua comments break XML! |
| 17:55.46 | cog|work | !api GetInventory |
| 17:55.47 | lua_bot | Found 12 possible results for 'GetInventory': GetInventoryItemLink, GetInventorySlotInfo, GetInventoryItemQuality, GetInventoryAlertStatus, GetInventoryItemBroken, GetInventoryItemCount, GetInventoryItemsForSlot, GetInventoryItemCooldown, GetInventoryItemID, GetInventoryItemTexture, GetInventoryItemGems, GetInventoryItemDurability |
| 17:56.16 | *** join/#wowuidev mascondante (i=kvirc@99.196.36.186) |
| 17:56.34 | NightHawkTheSane | does anyone know why the $_REQUEST array would not be getting populated by get/post vars? |
| 17:56.50 | Tepel | because $_REQUEST is bad |
| 17:56.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper (n=Spellsha@dslb-084-057-247-030.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:57.37 | foxlit | Arrowmaster: really? |
| 17:57.57 | NightHawkTheSane | Tepel: a) no its not, b) that doesn't answer my question |
| 17:58.10 | Ackis | I WANT A CATBERRY! http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/funny-pictures-cat-is-in-tree.jpg |
| 17:58.14 | Arrowmaster | not really, if it was inside a comment in xml it would be though, xml comments break with an unmatched number of --'s |
| 17:58.14 | Tepel | Why would you need to put something between that? |
| 17:58.40 | Tepel | If you're not using it might as well use the shorthand xml notation |
| 17:58.50 | foxlit | Arrowmaster: why? |
| 17:59.02 | foxlit | - isn't a reserved character. |
| 17:59.05 | Arrowmaster | just the way xml comments work |
| 17:59.08 | foxlit | It shouldn't care. |
| 17:59.33 | Tepel | Well, it's more of blizzards flavour of xml |
| 17:59.41 | Tepel | otherwise <Binding /> should be legit too |
| 17:59.42 | Arrowmaster | nah im talking xhtml |
| 18:00.01 | foxlit | Blizzards expects a non-empty Binding element. |
| 18:00.18 | foxlit | XML doesn't have any expectations about - in PCDATA fields. |
| 18:00.48 | Arrowmaster | its only in xhtml but an extra set of --'s in a comment will break the entire file |
| 18:01.17 | foxlit | Show :) |
| 18:01.22 | mikma | hmmh |
| 18:01.28 | mikma | for some reason i can't get that binding to work |
| 18:01.41 | Arrowmaster | mikma: what did you put |
| 18:02.11 | mikma | arrowmaster: http://mikma.pastey.net/127020 |
| 18:03.24 | Arrowmaster | BINDING_HEADER_MYLITTLEBUTTON exists right? |
| 18:03.31 | Lopeppeppy | kiwi! |
| 18:03.32 | mikma | aye |
| 18:03.42 | Arrowmaster | it should work |
| 18:03.44 | mikma | "setglobal("BINDING_NAME_CLICK TargetFrame:RightButton", "Open your target menu") |
| 18:03.50 | mikma | do i need that one, too? |
| 18:04.35 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 18:04.45 | Arrowmaster | wait maybe |
| 18:04.49 | mikma | it changed the text, good, but still doesn't work :) |
| 18:05.04 | Arrowmaster | maybe you should add :LeftButton to it |
| 18:05.11 | mikma | let's try that |
| 18:05.30 | mikma | also, does Bindings.xml get loaded with /rl or do i have to relog |
| 18:05.46 | Arrowmaster | if it existed then /rl should be enough |
| 18:06.04 | mikma | that did the trick |
| 18:06.07 | mikma | thanks arrowmaster |
| 18:07.19 | Arrowmaster | does that execute when you press the button or release the button? |
| 18:07.46 | mikma | release |
| 18:07.56 | mikma | perfect |
| 18:10.03 | Tepel | Wine has a neet bug atm, at least I think it's wine, it keeps repeating keystrokes |
| 18:10.27 | Tepel | So in WoW I can just hold spacebar instead of hitting it over and over |
| 18:10.45 | *** join/#wowuidev NeoTron (n=neotron@pool-173-64-144-162.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 18:11.04 | Arrowmaster | maybe thats why my character walk animation gets bugged in wine |
| 18:11.25 | Tepel | uhuh |
| 18:11.29 | Tepel | it is |
| 18:11.38 | Tepel | tap a different key and it's gone |
| 18:11.55 | Tepel | So apart from the animation bug it's a neet feature |
| 18:12.22 | Tepel | neat |
| 18:12.25 | Tepel | neet, hmmmm |
| 18:12.30 | Tepel | probably neat |
| 18:12.46 | Dagmar | Oh you mean what happens if you switch apps while holding a key down? |
| 18:13.14 | Tepel | No |
| 18:13.31 | Tepel | And nifty is a better choice here |
| 18:13.35 | Arrowmaster | no i think he means wine is sending wow a bunch of press and release signals instead of just a press and no release |
| 18:13.45 | Ackis | hmm do I play borderlands this weekend or do I play WoW? |
| 18:13.49 | Dagmar | X does key repeats by default |
| 18:13.53 | Dagmar | That's probably where it's coming from. |
| 18:14.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Bibi (n=Bibi@AVelizy-151-1-65-190.w82-124.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 18:14.02 | Tepel | That could be |
| 18:14.06 | KarlKFI | you playing borderlands on a console? |
| 18:14.10 | KarlKFI | fail |
| 18:14.13 | Lopeppeppy | needs cuddles |
| 18:14.17 | Ackis | KarlKFI: yup xbox 360 |
| 18:14.19 | Ackis | cuddles Lopeppeppy |
| 18:14.25 | KarlKFI | fps is for PC :P |
| 18:14.29 | Tepel | Either way, in windows you can hold a key and an action doesn't get executed until you release it |
| 18:14.33 | Arrowmaster | its an rpg not an fps |
| 18:14.37 | Ackis | KarlKFI: it's an RPG!! ahaha |
| 18:14.39 | KarlKFI | it's an rpgfps |
| 18:14.42 | Ackis | Arrowmaster: it's both |
| 18:14.52 | Tepel | Under linux it keeps repeating the action even though you're still holding the key |
| 18:14.55 | Dagmar | Tepel: I thought you were perhaps seeing a minor issue with apps trying to get direct keyboard access |
| 18:15.30 | Dagmar | If you change focus to somethin' else while one is held down, and the new app has an input widget, the input generated by lifting up the key--the key-up event--never gets sent to the wine app |
| 18:15.53 | Dagmar | Tepel: Sounds like key repeat, 30 250 all that |
| 18:16.25 | Tepel | It is a key repeat, the question is, why is it happening when wow should only be looking at key releases |
| 18:17.00 | Dagmar | Cuz it's going on under X |
| 18:17.14 | Dagmar | iirc try `xset r off` |
| 18:17.46 | Tepel | That's just working around the problem :P |
| 18:18.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (n=Kaso@217.42.54.42) |
| 18:18.32 | Dagmar | Or slap Option "AutoRepeat" "0 0" in xorg.conf... maybe |
| 18:18.40 | *** join/#wowuidev robotusch (n=robotusc@50A2DA6F.flatrate.dk) |
| 18:18.49 | Tepel | Aha! xev indead reports multiple press/release events |
| 18:18.58 | Dagmar | I can't remember what the expression is to turn it off, maybe putting a really high value (like 15000) as the first number |
| 18:19.22 | Dagmar | Yes, autoRepeat is implemented weird |
| 18:19.38 | Dagmar | On some platforms it tells the keyboard driver to wrangle it, on others it's just emulated |
| 18:19.41 | Tepel | But it only changed recently |
| 18:20.54 | Dagmar | Someone's not been using LInux long |
| 18:21.08 | Dagmar | Stuff changes all the time. Usually for the better. |
| 18:21.08 | Tepel | No, I mean the behaviour under wine |
| 18:21.42 | Dagmar | It's a completely natural and beautiful process. |
| 18:21.46 | Dagmar | Like bums freezing in the winter. |
| 18:21.51 | Tepel | :P |
| 18:22.05 | Dagmar | Most of the time, no one really cares, and everyone benefits. |
| 18:22.09 | Tepel | Meh, I am running RicerOS so I'm used to it |
| 18:22.23 | Dagmar | You might want to look into reporting that upstream to Gentoo maintainers then |
| 18:22.31 | *** join/#wowuidev mojosdojo_ (n=gdbzet26@p4FEFFA25.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:22.37 | Dagmar | Someone had a reason for making that change somewhere. |
| 18:22.42 | Arrowmaster | i get the same on debian |
| 18:22.44 | Tepel | But then I'd need to know what actually changed |
| 18:22.52 | Tepel | Arrowmaster: are you using evdev? |
| 18:22.59 | Arrowmaster | yes |
| 18:23.09 | Dagmar | I fyou like the new behaviour, great. If you don't then you can show that change x breaks usage y |
| 18:23.10 | Tepel | Cause I'm suspecting evdev |
| 18:23.25 | Dagmar | You don't know what you most recently updated? |
| 18:23.34 | Tepel | I like it, after all, testing on dummies is a lot easier now :P |
| 18:23.48 | Tepel | Let's see |
| 18:24.34 | cog|work | Shirik: Arrowmaster: http://www.thestardock.com/?p=1261 XD |
| 18:24.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (i=lolgourr@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 18:24.51 | Tepel | hah both were updated at the same time :P |
| 18:25.16 | Arrowmaster | cog|work: pff who uses bash |
| 18:25.18 | Shirik | that is awesome cog|work |
| 18:25.19 | cog|work | (who else was playing with us?) |
| 18:25.25 | Tepel | But that was recently, hmmm if only I could remember when the bug occured |
| 18:25.37 | cog|work | ScytheBlade1: ^ |
| 18:25.49 | Tepel | Well, evdev is easy to test, since I only installed 3 versions of that |
| 18:26.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphon (n=gryphon@c-76-104-164-148.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 18:26.16 | Tepel | So I only need to test one since the current one is broken and the first one was fine |
| 18:27.09 | Ackis | Fisker |
| 18:27.31 | Dagmar | Odd. |
| 18:27.50 | Dagmar | I thought we managed to kill off the genes that led people to believe that repeatedly changing the prompt was a good thing back in the 90's. |
| 18:27.52 | Tepel | restarting X! |
| 18:28.35 | Dagmar | Did someone get frozen in one of those sneaky cryogenic capsules or something? |
| 18:30.43 | Shirik | cog|away: Why do your turns go up :) |
| 18:31.17 | Dagmar | Why doesn't it say "Command Prompt of Commanding Commandness:" I want to know |
| 18:31.26 | olafski | not sure if it was posted.. http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=18570236694&sid=1&pageNo=1 :D |
| 18:33.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Tepel (n=Tepel@cc624207-a.gorre1.fr.home.nl) |
| 18:33.55 | Tepel | It doesn't seem to be evdev |
| 18:36.47 | Dagmar | So diddle the xset params and see if it's behaviour changes |
| 18:37.09 | Arrowmaster | from a quick google search it doesnt look like evdev is working with xset |
| 18:37.20 | Dagmar | For all we know it the change might have been to stop resetting the keyboard when you enter X |
| 18:37.30 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 18:37.30 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 18:40.02 | Shirik | My school just epically failed |
| 18:40.05 | Shirik | like ultra-epic |
| 18:40.16 | Shirik | We converted our mail system over to Windows Live mail |
| 18:40.22 | Dagmar | lol |
| 18:40.26 | Shirik | so all of our school addresses are now automatically Windows Live accounts |
| 18:40.27 | Shirik | well |
| 18:40.37 | Shirik | some of us used our school address as our XBox Live account |
| 18:40.50 | Shirik | so now there's a conflict in Microsoft's systems because they have two accounts for the same address |
| 18:40.51 | Dagmar | I figured it was only a matter of time before Microsoft started trying to compete with Google in giving unis free managed email |
| 18:40.54 | Lopeppeppy | ... sounds bad already |
| 18:41.25 | Dagmar | Gmail > Hotmail |
| 18:41.36 | Ackis | shemale > gmail |
| 18:41.42 | Shirik | ... |
| 18:41.44 | Dagmar | You've been on the internet too long. |
| 18:42.03 | Ackis | it's a TRAP |
| 18:42.13 | Ackis | Shirik: xbox live account and you didn't share with me? I'm hurt :( |
| 18:42.20 | Shirik | you didn't ask! |
| 18:42.32 | Ackis | you're supposed to read my mind! :D |
| 18:42.48 | Ackis | (but I've made general inquiries to the channel, you must've missed them) |
| 18:42.51 | Ackis | I'm still hurt though |
| 18:42.56 | Ackis | afk to go punch a baby |
| 18:44.17 | Ackis | http://www.cracked.com/article/153_nuke-moon-5-certifiably-insane-cold-war-projects/ |
| 18:45.38 | Fisker | lol |
| 18:45.59 | KarlKFI | "Think about that for a second: Neil Armstrong is considered a valid replacement for a nuclear missile." |
| 18:46.01 | Ackis | Fisker!!! |
| 18:46.07 | Ackis | ilu man |
| 18:46.08 | Fisker | just had a heroic beasts on 10-man |
| 18:46.15 | Fisker | he enraged like 1 second after massive crash |
| 18:46.18 | Fisker | that was lucky as hell :D |
| 18:47.33 | Tepel | hmmm, wine doesn't seem to be the problem either |
| 18:47.44 | Tepel | and Dagmar, yes, turning repeat off fixes it |
| 18:48.26 | Tepel | So that's the cause of the animation bug, now there's the question of who's responsible for the current behaviour |
| 18:49.10 | Tepel | Maybe it's the xorg-server itself |
| 18:54.48 | Adys | Tepel: what issue? |
| 18:55.04 | Tepel | Key repeat |
| 18:55.10 | Adys | xorg bug |
| 18:55.16 | Tepel | You know? |
| 18:55.20 | Adys | yes |
| 18:55.32 | Tepel | Which specific area of xorg? |
| 18:55.43 | Adys | xkb, obviously? |
| 18:55.56 | Tepel | Using evdev |
| 18:55.58 | Adys | its something about an event not correctly releasing or whatever |
| 18:56.10 | Adys | i dont know more, never tried to fix it as its actually useful for me |
| 18:56.16 | Tepel | No, I'm not talking about stuck keys |
| 18:56.24 | Adys | em |
| 18:56.46 | Adys | can you be.. more specific? |
| 18:57.29 | Adys | there is a bug with wine talking to Xorg which results in a repeating key behaviour when it should only send one keystroke |
| 18:57.47 | Adys | it shows up in games like wow which reset animations on keystroke |
| 18:58.04 | Adys | are you talking about this bug or something different |
| 18:58.15 | Tepel | Yes, that's the one |
| 18:58.18 | nevcairiel | is that the bug that makes my char stutter like hell when walking? |
| 18:58.22 | Adys | yes nev |
| 18:58.43 | nevcairiel | i was wondering what caused that |
| 18:59.04 | Tepel | But is evdev talking to xkb then? |
| 18:59.18 | Tepel | Cause I thought you could use either xkb or evdev |
| 18:59.18 | Adys | ive no idea |
| 18:59.24 | Adys | oh |
| 19:00.24 | nevcairiel | afaik, xkb is the underlying X library that manages all keyboard, and evdev is just the driver |
| 19:00.51 | Adys | nevcairiel: when you hit W and keep it pressed, windows normally only registers "W pressed, not yet released" |
| 19:01.11 | nevcairiel | i suppose linux just repeats the keystroke all the time |
| 19:01.13 | Adys | Xorg currently registers "W pressed", and then presses it again every 0.x seconds |
| 19:01.20 | Adys | depending on some configuration |
| 19:01.20 | Adys | ya |
| 19:02.12 | Tepel | And as I understand it evdev could be used to replace xkb |
| 19:03.26 | nevcairiel | evdev is just a new kernel-event based driver, not a full replacement for the keyboard subsystem |
| 19:04.01 | Dagmar | Adys: AutoRepeat option |
| 19:04.25 | Adys | dont tell me, I love it, not gonna change it |
| 19:04.41 | nevcairiel | i hate that move stuttering |
| 19:04.50 | nevcairiel | i would prefer the windows behaviour :P |
| 19:04.59 | Adys | its awesome for macros and shit |
| 19:05.00 | Tepel | Just autowalk more often |
| 19:05.02 | Dagmar | *eyeroll* |
| 19:05.13 | Dagmar | Autorepeat can be turned off. |
| 19:05.20 | Tepel | Macro's, swimming in lava, jumping for no reason |
| 19:05.32 | nevcairiel | does it still output the key repeatedly in a text box? |
| 19:05.33 | Adys | chainjumping = iwn |
| 19:05.37 | Tepel | nevcairiel: yes |
| 19:05.38 | nevcairiel | if autorepeat is off |
| 19:05.40 | Tepel | no |
| 19:05.45 | Adys | yes, it does |
| 19:05.53 | Tepel | no it doesn't |
| 19:06.08 | Adys | yes, it does :P some controls behave differently |
| 19:06.12 | nevcairiel | that would be windows behaviour, still repeat keys in text boxes, but don't do it in wow :P |
| 19:06.15 | Tepel | xset -r off completely removed the repeat behaviour |
| 19:06.29 | Adys | then its a different option you're talking about |
| 19:06.50 | nevcairiel | wonder if its something wine could "fix" |
| 19:06.55 | Adys | wine, no |
| 19:06.57 | Adys | its in xorg |
| 19:07.00 | Tepel | restart of X! |
| 19:07.10 | Adys | how would that help |
| 19:07.11 | Tepel | without either xkb or mouse, wonder what will happen |
| 19:09.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Tepel (n=Tepel@cc624207-a.gorre1.fr.home.nl) |
| 19:09.35 | Tepel | whoops, that was the reboot button |
| 19:09.48 | Tepel | Anyway, evdev handles keyboards just fine on it's own |
| 19:09.53 | Tepel | and the mouse |
| 19:10.40 | Ackis | holy shit |
| 19:10.40 | Dagmar | *sigh* |
| 19:10.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 19:10.49 | Ackis | I have $1000 worth of rewards points via my visa lol |
| 19:10.51 | Dagmar | I feel like I'm talking to a paperweight. |
| 19:10.59 | Tepel | Dagmar: ? |
| 19:12.31 | Dagmar | If you want to turn it off, you can use xset or you can disable it in the xorg.conf |
| 19:12.36 | Tepel | We know! |
| 19:12.44 | Dagmar | Trying to go without Xorg's keyboard handler will _fail horribly_ tho |
| 19:12.49 | Tepel | You've mentioned it several times already, but that's not the point |
| 19:12.57 | Tepel | Seems to be working fine |
| 19:13.22 | zenzelezz | I was looking for an old picture from Anarchy Online today, so I did a Google Image search for "liek omg lazers pew pew" (without the quotes)... which revealed that there is, disturbingly, a site called icanhasfreeporn which is similar to icanhascheezburger |
| 19:13.37 | nevcairiel | just with porn? |
| 19:13.40 | zenzelezz | yes |
| 19:13.59 | nevcairiel | lolporn, eh |
| 19:14.04 | zenzelezz | exactly |
| 19:14.28 | Lopeppeppy | all porn is for lols |
| 19:14.44 | zenzelezz | that explains why girls laugh at me when I send them nude pictures |
| 19:14.53 | Adys | theres a display at Google offices |
| 19:15.05 | Adys | which shows in real time the searches people are doing |
| 19:15.07 | Adys | and see |
| 19:15.17 | Adys | you guys just all spammed that search |
| 19:15.20 | Adys | its all over the board |
| 19:15.29 | nevcairiel | lol :P |
| 19:16.32 | Tepel | Dagmar: I think it works fine because of the hal daemon |
| 19:17.21 | Tepel | restart of X! |
| 19:17.48 | Dagmar | Might as well be saying it works because of fairies |
| 19:17.57 | nevcairiel | I seriously wonder wtf he is trying to do. you can't "turn off" xkb, its a fixed part of the xserver :P |
| 19:19.37 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (i=smcn@67.166.76.157) |
| 19:19.43 | Fisker | heh Adys |
| 19:19.53 | Fisker | like /b/ spamming searches to affect the trends webpage |
| 19:20.15 | Ackis | Fisker: how is borderlands? |
| 19:20.24 | Fisker | fuck you |
| 19:20.58 | Lunessa | Fisker I don't think Ackis is your type. Unless you know, you're into that sort. |
| 19:21.00 | Adys | [22:19:15] <Fisker> like /b/ spamming searches to affect the trends webpage |
| 19:21.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraft (n=Chris@cpc1-cwma7-2-0-cust280.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 19:21.23 | *** join/#wowuidev zeheres (n=crs@dslb-084-061-058-071.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:21.23 | Adys | /b/ is the prime example of a bunch of tards thinking they "can make a difference in this world" |
| 19:21.50 | Ackis | Fisker: how is SC2? |
| 19:21.55 | Ackis | Fisker: how is L3D2? |
| 19:21.57 | Fisker | only newfags Adys |
| 19:22.00 | Ackis | *L4D2 |
| 19:22.04 | Fisker | L4D2 is nice |
| 19:22.16 | Ackis | Fisker: ilu |
| 19:22.21 | Ackis | Fisker: DRM = Cancer |
| 19:22.28 | Ackis | Fisker: does your client beep when your name is mentioned? |
| 19:22.33 | Ackis | Fisker: are you raiding? |
| 19:22.38 | Ackis | Fisker: why won't you talk to me? |
| 19:22.46 | Ackis | Fisker: is it because I'm playing borderlands and you aren't? |
| 19:24.15 | Ackis | Fisker: :( |
| 19:24.24 | Ackis | I gave you time to respond to my inquiries Fisker! |
| 19:24.41 | zenzelezz | sounds to me like you're chatting on IRC instead of playing Borderlands |
| 19:24.47 | Ackis | I'm at work! |
| 19:24.52 | Ackis | thinking about getting a zune |
| 19:24.54 | Ackis | but I need to know |
| 19:25.02 | Ackis | can I burn busic to a virtual CD? |
| 19:25.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Tepel (n=Tepel@cc624207-a.gorre1.fr.home.nl) |
| 19:25.59 | zenzelezz | who's Busic? |
| 19:25.59 | Ackis | I was stupid and paid for digital music a while a back |
| 19:25.59 | Ackis | s/busic/music/ |
| 19:26.13 | Fisker | hello Ackis |
| 19:26.52 | Tepel | Meh, I give up, I don't know which package is responsible for the key repeat behaviour change |
| 19:27.33 | Ackis | hi Fisker |
| 19:28.53 | Ackis | Fisker: http://tinyurl.com/yf69gds get that IMO |
| 19:29.08 | Fisker | old |
| 19:29.22 | Fisker | Last i checked Railworks + All DLC = like 200€ |
| 19:29.24 | Fisker | i lol'd |
| 19:29.30 | Ackis | yah I saw your screenshot |
| 19:29.38 | *** part/#wowuidev boshi23 (n=chris@c-75-75-186-99.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 19:29.45 | Ackis | you should re-check but make it real $ |
| 19:29.50 | Fisker | 222€ now |
| 19:29.51 | Ackis | it'll be a bigger number |
| 19:30.01 | Tepel | I despise steam |
| 19:30.03 | Fisker | $300 |
| 19:30.06 | Fisker | l2p Tepel |
| 19:30.12 | Tepel | learn to pay? |
| 19:30.16 | NightHawkTheSane | down with steam! nuclear power ftw! |
| 19:30.19 | Fisker | play Tepel |
| 19:30.23 | Fisker | steam is awesome |
| 19:30.50 | Fisker | if Steam had a volume slider it would go to 11 |
| 19:30.50 | Tepel | Steam is too expensive, there are only rare occasions where a game is cheaper |
| 19:30.57 | Fisker | of course |
| 19:31.06 | Fisker | that has nothing to do with steam though |
| 19:31.37 | Tepel | Steam as a platform is awesome, I agree |
| 19:31.53 | Ackis | Fisker: have you tried impulse |
| 19:32.06 | Tepel | But when the prices are so inflated it renders it useless |
| 19:33.04 | Tepel | I thought the whole idea of digital distribution was to make it cheaper for customers |
| 19:33.14 | Tepel | Apparently I was mistaken |
| 19:33.43 | Ackis | Tepel: I've found the prices to be comparable to retail |
| 19:33.50 | Tepel | Exactly, that's the problem! |
| 19:33.57 | Tepel | Well, not all games btw |
| 19:34.26 | Tepel | What's the added value when I could just order the game at some retailer and get some real media |
| 19:34.43 | Ackis | real media sucks |
| 19:34.47 | Tepel | But COD4 is waaaay to overpriced last time I checked |
| 19:34.49 | Ackis | lose it, dogs each it etc |
| 19:35.02 | Tepel | Add to that the fact that you're not the owner of the games you bought |
| 19:35.17 | Tepel | Since you can't transfer/sell them |
| 19:35.57 | Ackis | you can't really do that with retail ones either... cd-keys are 1 use etc |
| 19:36.15 | Tepel | Not exactly |
| 19:36.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Matrix110| (i=Matrix11@ip-95-222-224-247.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 19:37.19 | Tepel | That only applies to some of the games |
| 19:37.25 | cog|away | Shirik|AFK: read the 3 lines after the screenie |
| 19:43.01 | Dagmar | lol |
| 19:43.04 | Dagmar | "cheaper to customers" |
| 19:43.13 | Dagmar | Since when have any of those been sold cheaper than retail |
| 19:43.48 | Dagmar | it's _all_ about never letting you actually own whatever you bought, so you can't sell it to someone else, and if you want it on a new platofrm you have to buy it again |
| 19:44.00 | Tepel | Which is why I don't use steam |
| 19:44.14 | Tepel | But yeah, companies are SOBs |
| 19:45.06 | Tepel | Not to mention what will happen when steam goes dark |
| 19:45.20 | Tepel | DRM is imo a bad idea |
| 19:48.42 | Tepel | more cake! |
| 19:51.20 | Fisker | patch Tepel |
| 19:51.27 | Fisker | impulse sucks Ackis |
| 19:52.48 | foxlit | Is there a railroad game that doesn't bore you to death? |
| 19:53.07 | Fisker | railworks! |
| 19:57.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Ruck (n=bleh@72.86.106.233) |
| 19:59.39 | Ackis | Bibi: I hate you! http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2009/october/frostmourne_room.jpg :( |
| 19:59.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Subdino (n=vincent@ALille-154-1-79-146.w90-34.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:59.46 | cog|work | http://www.wepicktheclick.com/images/comparison.gif |
| 20:00.34 | NightHawkTheSane | loves cog|work |
| 20:00.55 | Subdino | hi. I'm trying to understand how to receive arbitrary parameters to slash commands using AceConfig-3.0, but the only place where I see options is outside of specs... is it just not suitable for that ? |
| 20:01.17 | Subdino | and if so, what should I use ? |
| 20:01.28 | nevcairiel | heh nice cog|work |
| 20:01.50 | NightHawkTheSane | except i dont see moya in there :( |
| 20:02.09 | nevcairiel | there is |
| 20:02.11 | NightHawkTheSane | oh wait, nevermind |
| 20:02.12 | cog|work | Subdino: http://old.wowace.com/wiki/AceConfig3#input ? |
| 20:02.13 | Lunessa | Bibi: I love you for that. |
| 20:02.14 | NeoTron | Executor class ships are rather big |
| 20:02.15 | nevcairiel | below the peacekeeper things |
| 20:02.15 | NightHawkTheSane | i missed it in the corner |
| 20:02.23 | cog|work | Subdino: might also try #wowace |
| 20:02.54 | Ackis | Lunessa: http://www.mmo-champion.com/news-2/warning-spoilers-ahead!-tier-10-armor/ (I don't think there's any spoilers in the news post, just a good discussion on "spoiling" itself) |
| 20:04.26 | Subdino | cog|work: ah, I didn't even enter "old.wowace.com", I didn't expect to find ace3 doc in it |
| 20:04.36 | Subdino | mmh |
| 20:04.50 | Bibi | Ackis : You do realize I spoiled that 10 hours later? |
| 20:04.53 | Bibi | :( |
| 20:05.02 | cog|work | just googled AceConfig :> |
| 20:05.15 | nevcairiel | the docs from old.wowace.com have been moved over to the new page, anyway |
| 20:05.17 | nevcairiel | and updated |
| 20:05.33 | Ackis | Bibi: <3 just giving you a hard time, ilu you and tyou're taking too much shit over the spoiling thing |
| 20:06.32 | Bibi | people are just mean |
| 20:06.34 | Bibi | Blizzard is mean |
| 20:06.35 | Bibi | :( |
| 20:07.04 | Ackis | am I mean? |
| 20:07.40 | Ackis | I've purposely been avoiding the spoilers, so my gf tells me "you know lava man was XXXXXXX" yesterday and I cried :( |
| 20:07.59 | Lopeppeppy | might be why I avoid all of he discussion |
| 20:08.02 | foxlit | Ackis: Lavaman is Snape |
| 20:08.13 | foxlit | And as everyone knows, Snape kills Arthas in 3.3 |
| 20:08.18 | Lopeppeppy | snape kills santa claus |
| 20:08.27 | Ackis | wasn't snape devoured by spiders? |
| 20:08.31 | Adys | Jesus dies on page 847 |
| 20:08.43 | Ackis | wait |
| 20:08.47 | Ackis | Jesus dies? |
| 20:08.51 | Ackis | I never got to that part of the book yet :( |
| 20:09.17 | Tepel | Wasn't Snape a character in harry potter? |
| 20:09.17 | Lopeppeppy | now you don't have to read it all! |
| 20:09.21 | Lopeppeppy | Aren't you so lucky |
| 20:09.29 | Lopeppeppy | Tepel, yes, that's the source of the joke |
| 20:09.49 | Tepel | Meh, I don't know the source |
| 20:09.56 | Tepel | I've never even heard the joke |
| 20:10.05 | Tepel | I don't see the joke in it |
| 20:10.20 | NightHawkTheSane | Tepel: how do you like the rock you've been in for the last 5 years? ;) |
| 20:10.22 | Lunessa | You forgot to mention the Snape/Potter leather-fetish scene with Jesus and Buzz Lightyear |
| 20:10.24 | Arrowmaster | 4chan spoiled it before the book was released |
| 20:10.24 | NightHawkTheSane | s/in/under/ |
| 20:10.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 20:10.44 | Lopeppeppy | that's a species of joke, not "the joke". Many are jokes about "snape killed xxxxx" |
| 20:10.52 | Lopeppeppy | Lunessa, you've scarred my brain, kthx |
| 20:11.23 | Lunessa | Lopeppeppy: You know you're plugging those terms into google right now. |
| 20:11.26 | Tepel | NightHawkTheSane: I like my rock, there's nothing wrong with my rock |
| 20:11.28 | cog|work | O.o |
| 20:11.29 | cog|work | http://www.wepicktheclick.com/images/tits_backward.jpg |
| 20:11.35 | NightHawkTheSane | never said there was ;) |
| 20:12.03 | Tepel | Gives a whole new meaning to sideboob |
| 20:13.51 | Ackis | "Yoda, who seems to have gone so batshit insane that all he can do is talk like Super Grover in cryptic nonsensical jibber-jabber and lift shit out of bogs with his mind." |
| 20:15.25 | cog|work | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAWuMd6GOfs&NR=1 |
| 20:15.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (n=kalroth@2506ds1-hj.0.fullrate.dk) |
| 20:15.54 | foxlit | Or just slow motion, cog? |
| 20:16.13 | foxlit | Ah, no. |
| 20:18.16 | Lopeppeppy | no googlePppey |
| 20:19.40 | cog|work | Lopeppeppy: i googled you... "Her exploits include: ... Not being laid waste by Cogwheel." |
| 20:19.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 20:20.00 | NightHawkTheSane | that IS impressive |
| 20:20.06 | Lopeppeppy | *grin* |
| 20:20.11 | Lopeppeppy | is an old exploit |
| 20:22.32 | Adys | whatis |
| 20:23.24 | Lopeppeppy | Sprockets standing against Cogs. |
| 20:23.31 | Adys | Ok. |
| 20:23.32 | NightHawkTheSane | " Lopeppeppy is an old exploit" >.> |
| 20:23.35 | NightHawkTheSane | coughs |
| 20:23.47 | NightHawkTheSane | flees |
| 20:24.37 | Lopeppeppy | lays landmines in his path |
| 20:24.57 | jnwhiteh | Someone had taint issues with the focus frame |
| 20:25.03 | jnwhiteh | please pass that information on to me |
| 20:25.06 | jnwhiteh | so we can ensure it gets fixed. |
| 20:25.06 | zenzelezz | peppy can exploit me any day |
| 20:25.33 | zenzelezz | Cairenn too |
| 20:25.50 | Cairenn | chuckles |
| 20:26.15 | Lopeppeppy | tsk tsk, not up for sploiting today. needsmy rest |
| 20:28.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Zeksie (n=zeksie@cpc1-nott9-0-0-cust756.nott.cable.ntl.com) |
| 20:31.04 | Fisker | slaps Cairenn around a bit with a large trout |
| 20:31.14 | Cairenn | hugs Fisker |
| 20:31.45 | haste | velter Fisker |
| 20:32.41 | Fisker | slaps haste around a bit with a large trout |
| 20:32.49 | Gnarfoz | jnwhiteh: you mean something else than the inability of addons to *set* the focus? |
| 20:33.19 | Thunder_Child | so it seems the horrific helm can be used for porn shots |
| 20:33.34 | alestane | I saw a blood elf pally dancing in nothing else... |
| 20:34.34 | Lopeppeppy | eew |
| 20:35.06 | Thunder_Child | no, when you laugh you thrust forward and your head goes back and arms go out |
| 20:35.44 | NightHawkTheSane | >.> well, this wasn't at all obvious: http://img2.me/ERC8V.png |
| 20:36.11 | Thunder_Child | http://www.thunder-child.net/Misc/hbj.jpg |
| 20:37.44 | Gnarfoz | NightHawkTheSane: whoever took that screenshot... they did it wrong |
| 20:37.54 | Gnarfoz | actually, I meant Thunder_Child ;) |
| 20:38.03 | jnwhiteh | Gnarfoz: I just know someone reported an issue with taint and the focus frame |
| 20:38.10 | Gnarfoz | clicked both links and mixed up who's was who's |
| 20:38.14 | jnwhiteh | trying to get it tracked down =) |
| 20:38.52 | *** join/#wowuidev kenuvis (n=kenuvis@pD9EADF11.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:39.04 | Thunder_Child | how so Gnarfoz? |
| 20:39.06 | Gnarfoz | jnwhiteh: well, aside from addons being unable to use the dropdown on unitframes to set the focus, I don't know any. but I'm not the someone who reported something, so maybe try grepping your logs for "focus" :D |
| 20:39.30 | *** part/#wowuidev kenuvis (n=kenuvis@pD9EADF11.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:39.55 | jnwhiteh | i re-did my machine =) |
| 20:40.03 | Gnarfoz | Thunder_Child: well, the "Screen Captured" text is visible on the screenshot, as are the window decorations... so... someone took a screenshot (bound to the printscreen key) and then pasted that into an editor and saved it |
| 20:40.06 | jnwhiteh | bu yeah i'll look |
| 20:40.27 | Adys | i wonder |
| 20:40.28 | Gnarfoz | instead of using the screenshot wow took when they pressed the key, which would not have the text in the middle =D |
| 20:40.40 | Thunder_Child | Gnarfoz, kinda, i dont like wow screenshots |
| 20:40.42 | Adys | has anyone actually experienced google wave's instant typo correction? |
| 20:41.11 | Gnarfoz | Adys: haven't tried, lack of contacts w/ wave accounts really makes the whole thing kind of pointless |
| 20:41.19 | Adys | Gnarfoz: add me then |
| 20:41.38 | Gnarfoz | Thunder_Child: how do you mean? they're the same? |
| 20:41.58 | Adys | Im using wave to write that book on UI design |
| 20:42.05 | Adys | its so much better |
| 20:42.24 | Thunder_Child | Gnarfoz, except that to do any editing i have to import it. this way i get to be lazy |
| 20:42.51 | mikma | i have had some interesting errors when people join the party |
| 20:43.03 | mikma | interface action failed -errors |
| 20:43.06 | Gnarfoz | and you get a free "text ruining the screenshot" in the middle of your screen ;D |
| 20:43.22 | Gnarfoz | (I think there's a 2-liner addon out there that suppresses that text) |
| 20:43.30 | Gnarfoz | actually... just unbind the key :D |
| 20:43.49 | Gnarfoz | which leads me to: using windows to capture the screenshot won't work in fullscreen mode ;> |
| 20:44.01 | jnwhiteh | Adys: look me up on wave :P |
| 20:44.43 | Adys | address? |
| 20:46.03 | mikma | looking for more testers! http://mikma.eu/wow/MyLittleButton.zip |
| 20:46.12 | Adys | whats it do? |
| 20:46.16 | Lopeppeppy | ^ |
| 20:46.22 | NightHawkTheSane | its mikma's little button obviously |
| 20:46.29 | zenzelezz | such a dirty name |
| 20:46.30 | NightHawkTheSane | :p |
| 20:46.37 | jnwhiteh | Adys: this nam :P |
| 20:46.58 | Gnarfoz | hehe, MyLittleButton, I like it |
| 20:47.18 | zenzelezz | depends whose little button we're talking about |
| 20:47.49 | Lopeppeppy | do not want! |
| 20:47.50 | mikma | adys: http://mikma.eu/wow/WoWScrnShot_102309_233231.jpg <- it adds that frame on the right, over the chat. |
| 20:48.00 | Adys | added you both |
| 20:48.15 | Lopeppeppy | that would be your LEFT, mikma |
| 20:48.19 | Lopeppeppy | :P |
| 20:48.35 | Lopeppeppy | whuzza button do that um, I cant have an invisible mouseover macro for? |
| 20:48.36 | Gnarfoz | mikma: while I like the addon idea, I find the frame ugly, btw :P |
| 20:48.37 | mikma | adys: you can drag a spell in it and then type in the target (mouseover, focus, pet, name of player in raid ...) and clicking that button casts the spell on it. border changes if the target is in range |
| 20:48.46 | mikma | lopeppeppy: thanks babe |
| 20:48.58 | mikma | gnarfoz: you are welcome to design me a better frame :) |
| 20:50.04 | Gnarfoz | mikma: way too lazy for that, I'll keep on typoing names when editing my Tricks macros (yes, I have multiple, need to consolidate those one day) |
| 20:50.36 | NightHawkTheSane | mikma: is the button bindable? |
| 20:50.42 | mikma | nighthawkthesane: it is :) |
| 20:50.47 | NightHawkTheSane | interesting. |
| 20:51.25 | NightHawkTheSane | I might try that out |
| 20:51.51 | mikma | my hunter friend uses it for misdirect, warrior friend uses it for intervene .. :) |
| 20:52.00 | Lunessa | *sigh* SexyCooldown is interesting enough that I might need to redesign my UI to incorporate it. |
| 20:52.05 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah, i use clique for most of those currently |
| 20:52.24 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: i've been using it on my ele shaman, i love it. |
| 20:52.35 | NightHawkTheSane | i want to try it on my MM hunter and kitty druid as wel |
| 20:52.36 | NightHawkTheSane | l |
| 20:52.41 | NightHawkTheSane | also, AFK for lunch. |
| 20:58.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Liquidora (i=535d2b37@gateway/web/freenode/x-mxulysqefyuutesv) |
| 20:59.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Liquidora1 (i=535d2b37@gateway/web/freenode/x-zkkkoiahcavdrvot) |
| 21:00.06 | Liquidora1 | Hey folks. So I'm going to create this addon that syncs some data among the guildies using the guild addon channel, but I also want a public announcement in the guild channel itself, but without the spam from all of the plugin users, how do I prevent more than one from announcing? |
| 21:00.23 | Liquidora1 | addon users* |
| 21:02.13 | Gnarfoz | are you certain your idea requires syncing? |
| 21:02.47 | Liquidora1 | Nah prolly not. I shouldn't even have included that in my question tbh. |
| 21:03.31 | Liquidora1 | The issue is simple: More than 1 player with the addon running. And I only want 1 player to be the "host" announcing to the guild chat and not all of them at once. |
| 21:03.47 | Gnarfoz | well I guess I've not (even tried) answered your actual question, but addon spam is bad enough as it is, thus the suggestion to re-examine that first ;) |
| 21:04.29 | foxlit | 1. Figure out who is running the addon. |
| 21:04.48 | Gnarfoz | well, if the syncing part is just there to figure out who gets the 'voice' privilege, it probably isn't spammy =) |
| 21:04.49 | foxlit | 2. Person whose name is first lexicographically announces in public. |
| 21:05.26 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (i=harl@dslb-088-076-052-156.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:05.47 | Liquidora1 | foxlit: table then sort by playername? |
| 21:05.49 | Gnarfoz | (or any other arbitrary decision, like highest guild rank first, then lexico... alphabetically, or by level, or whatever fits best to what your addon does) |
| 21:06.19 | cog|work | if you're going to be syncing, your addon will probably be announcing its presence on login. You could have the addon configured to send public announcements by default until a new player announces their presence |
| 21:07.19 | foxlit | You do not necessarily have to store the table -- just keeping the current best candidate is good enough. |
| 21:07.44 | foxlit | If syncing is something initiated by the user, the initiating addon should announce. |
| 21:08.51 | Liquidora1 | Thanks for the help. |
| 21:09.16 | Liquidora1 | But what about latency and delays? |
| 21:09.49 | Liquidora1 | What if the highest "ranked" player to announce disconnects but isn't 100% offline yet. |
| 21:10.02 | Gnarfoz | mikma: btw, didn't look at the screenshot you posted now, I still had the one from earlier in mind. you changed something... it looks better in the current screenshot than it did before |
| 21:10.06 | cog|work | if you start digging deeper you'll find a whole branch of computer science dedicated to these questions :P |
| 21:10.41 | foxlit | You could also just make everyone roll random numbers to determine how long they'll personally wait before announcing. |
| 21:10.45 | Gnarfoz | obviously: a heartbeat implementation :D |
| 21:11.05 | Gnarfoz | that'd be so overkill it's not eve funny |
| 21:11.05 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 21:11.21 | Liquidora1 | Hehe |
| 21:11.59 | mikma | gnarfoz: hehe, well it was the first version with 0 colors which you saw previously |
| 21:14.22 | Fisker | slaps mikma around a bit with a large trout |
| 21:14.23 | Fisker | slaps Gnarfoz around a bit with a large trout |
| 21:14.25 | Fisker | slaps cog|work around a bit with a large trout |
| 21:14.27 | Fisker | you cog|work |
| 21:14.41 | Gnarfoz | Fisker: are you fat? |
| 21:14.58 | Fisker | you mom is Gnarfoz |
| 21:15.16 | cog|work | Din mor, Fisker. Din mor. |
| 21:15.22 | Gnarfoz | no, she isn't, I am, though! |
| 21:15.25 | Fisker | ouch cog|work |
| 21:15.27 | Fisker | that hurt |
| 21:15.40 | cog|work | :D! |
| 21:15.48 | foxlit | "Dude better kick some SERIOUS ass." >> "Dude is in fact the Lich King." |
| 21:17.16 | Lunessa | Question at BlizzCon: When are we going to get Frodstmourne as dropped loot? Answer from Chris Metzen: "Frostmourne would eat your soul." |
| 21:17.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Aqua (n=Aquavett@74-137-181-161.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 21:18.49 | Lopeppeppy | nom nom nom |
| 21:19.03 | Fisker | i disagree |
| 21:19.14 | foxlit | Fisker would clearly eat Frostmourne's soul. |
| 21:19.17 | Fisker | Corrupted Ashbringer would eat your soul |
| 21:19.23 | Fisker | but look at it |
| 21:19.36 | Lopeppeppy | i totally need someone to come feed me. damn kitchen |
| 21:19.58 | alestane | Dinner would be cold by then. |
| 21:21.19 | mikma | haste: http://www.geekologie.com/2009/10/led_eyelashes_no_thats_not_wei.php |
| 21:22.29 | Lopeppeppy | will be cold if i forage bfor it anyway |
| 21:24.32 | Lunessa | Lopeppeppy: Stop for chinese. |
| 21:25.12 | Lunessa | mikma: those would be awesome for costuming. |
| 21:28.15 | cog|work | when did my broom can fly? |
| 21:28.33 | tekkub | they made it scale |
| 21:28.47 | Fisker | i could actually just remove you from the universe cog|work |
| 21:28.52 | tekkub | think that was last year, instead of dropping multiple brooms |
| 21:28.57 | cog|work | oh i guess i never mounted on it in a flyable area |
| 21:29.19 | cog|work | so when i walked to krasus' landing i still couldn't fly and figured it didn't fly |
| 21:29.58 | cog|work | need moar masks |
| 21:30.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (n=Cide@78.70.60.238) |
| 21:30.10 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 21:30.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (n=Cide@78.70.60.238) |
| 21:30.38 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 21:30.46 | Fisker | no i do cog|work |
| 21:30.57 | cog|work | i think i'm with the RNG QQers |
| 21:31.37 | Lopeppeppy | lunessa, stop? |
| 21:31.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (n=dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 21:34.08 | Fisker | i am the hero this channel needs |
| 21:35.05 | Arrowmaster | what the hell, installing xp in virtualbox is taking me less than 5 minutes, why the hell does it always take 30 minutes on my schools computers using vmware |
| 21:35.54 | Arrowmaster | bah fuck the welcome to windows thing is still there, i thought i killed that with nLite |
| 21:36.33 | Lunessa | Lopeppeppy: On the way home, or didst thou depart ? |
| 21:36.41 | smcn | grand black war mammoth just dropped twice in one 10-man voa and i didn't win ;( |
| 21:38.48 | Fisker | aww |
| 21:38.51 | Lopeppeppy | Oh, lunessa, home today, was second cortisone shot. |
| 21:39.06 | Lopeppeppy | And i live in easten nowhere, no chinese delivery. i checked. |
| 21:39.13 | Lunessa | comforts the Lopeppeppy and suggests ordering delivery |
| 21:39.18 | Lunessa | Oh noes! |
| 21:39.36 | Lopeppeppy | only delivery is pizza and I do not eat that. |
| 21:39.38 | Lunessa | Call the boyfriend, whimper prettily and he'll deliver! |
| 21:40.01 | Lopeppeppy | i have cereal. boy has plans on fridays, no sugar daddy delivery service. |
| 21:40.02 | alestane | I could bring you dinner if you didn't live in West Bumblefrack. |
| 21:40.15 | Lopeppeppy | i so seriously live in northeastern nowhere |
| 21:40.38 | NightHawkTheSane | <3 cities |
| 21:40.57 | Lopeppeppy | hatest hem, my precious. |
| 21:41.17 | Dagmar | Don't hate the cities, hate the SUV drivers. |
| 21:41.20 | Lunessa | <3 cities. 24 hours a day you can get food, entertainment, services, etc. Just need a car, cash or a gun. |
| 21:41.37 | Dagmar | Pfft. with the last one you can get the first two easily enough. |
| 21:41.39 | Lopeppeppy | i'm pretty happy to be where I am, if I could drive i'd be fine for whatever i want. |
| 21:41.49 | Lunessa | Dagmar: With the last one, you can get all the rest. |
| 21:41.50 | Liquidora1 | 2 players in a raid and in 2 different instances where they both haven't killed anything (not saved), is there any unique ID each of the players then or any other way to detect they're in a different raid than the other? |
| 21:42.04 | Liquidora1 | for each* |
| 21:42.10 | Lopeppeppy | don't think so..... |
| 21:42.22 | Lopeppeppy | location? |
| 21:42.31 | Liquidora1 | Same location. |
| 21:42.51 | alestane | !api party |
| 21:42.51 | Liquidora1 | ie 2 parties of ToC normal. |
| 21:42.51 | lua_bot | Found 25 possible matches for 'party'. Please be more specific |
| 21:43.53 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: pfft. don't need a car. :P |
| 21:44.10 | Lunessa | NHTS - I need a car. NEED. |
| 21:44.20 | NightHawkTheSane | no, your area NEEDS better mass transit. |
| 21:44.22 | NightHawkTheSane | :P |
| 21:44.30 | Lunessa | HahahHAHAHAHAHAHA |
| 21:44.50 | Dagmar | She's in the middle of nowhere. |
| 21:44.53 | Dagmar | There's no mass to transit. |
| 21:45.02 | Arrowmaster | when you dont live in a metro area mass transit doesnt work |
| 21:45.03 | Lunessa | I hate to say it, but Mass Transit sucks EVERYWHERE. |
| 21:45.13 | Tepel | ^ |
| 21:45.13 | Dagmar | Wrong. |
| 21:45.15 | NightHawkTheSane | nah |
| 21:45.16 | Dagmar | Try San Francisco. |
| 21:45.19 | kdtresh|work | muni isn't bad in sf |
| 21:45.22 | Dagmar | Their mass transit works and it works _well_ |
| 21:45.35 | NightHawkTheSane | its entirely possible to have good mass transit that even works in suburban areas. |
| 21:45.49 | Tepel | It's entirely possible to have a working mass transit that still sucks |
| 21:46.59 | NightHawkTheSane | hasn't owned a car in... 4 years... |
| 21:47.07 | NightHawkTheSane | gets everywhere he needs to go |
| 21:47.16 | Dagmar | The entire time I was in SF I didn't need a car. |
| 21:47.27 | kdtresh|work | i always park mine at the hotel and ride muni when i'm there |
| 21:47.28 | Dagmar | The few times one could argue I "needed" one, I just walked to Enterprise |
| 21:47.58 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: flexcar/zipcar or wahtever is pretty neat for those few times you actually NEED a car |
| 21:47.59 | kdtresh|work | the cost of riding muni for a day is like 20 mins of parking |
| 21:48.02 | Dagmar | $35/day is definitely cost-effective if you'd need a cab to 3 or more place in the city |
| 21:48.27 | Dagmar | ...mainly because I'd be hopping from outlaw party to outlaw party and cabs frown on going anywhere near those |
| 21:48.38 | NightHawkTheSane | haha |
| 21:48.46 | Lopeppeppy | The T in Boston isn't too bad overall. |
| 21:48.47 | alestane | Liquidora1: No way to know their relative group status if neither of them is in a group with you. If at least one is, then you can use UnitPlayerOrPetInParty. |
| 21:48.57 | Dagmar | Lots of those were within walking distance of the bus lines, but the hours were bad |
| 21:49.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=muffins@pool-72-84-246-12.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) |
| 21:53.12 | bleeter | London Underground worked pretty well for me... /shrug |
| 21:54.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (n=chatzill@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 21:54.31 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah, last time i was there i got around pretty well. admittedly that was like 10+ years ago ;) |
| 21:54.32 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (n=p3lim@89-151-222.200.3p.ntebredband.no) |
| 21:54.34 | Lopeppeppy | only trick to theT is kjnowing which direction you're going, in or out of the city |
| 21:55.41 | Dagmar | I generally carried a compass while I was in SF |
| 21:55.56 | Dagmar | I simply could not get lost with that and my street map |
| 21:56.16 | kdtresh|work | i still get confused inbound/outbound |
| 21:56.22 | kdtresh|work | but i'm only there a few times a year |
| 21:56.45 | kdtresh|work | and mainly only take 30 or 45 to at&t park, lol |
| 21:57.30 | cog|work | http://gamesbyemail.com/News/DiceOMatic |
| 21:57.40 | Lopeppeppy | i just give myself time to study the subway maps, and i'm good. |
| 21:59.17 | Cide | cog|work: old! |
| 21:59.22 | Cide | still awesome in any case |
| 22:00.48 | NightHawkTheSane | cog|work: jesus. |
| 22:01.36 | Lunessa | Ok folks, I'm out for the day. |
| 22:04.35 | Gnarfoz | <Liquidora1> 2 players in a raid and in 2 different instances where they both haven't killed anything (not saved), is there any unique ID each of the players then or any other way to detect they're in a different raid than the other? <-- compare rosters vs. unitids, perhaps? |
| 22:05.42 | *** join/#wowuidev ilovemrdoe (n=ddd@88-104-108-32.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 22:06.15 | NightHawkTheSane | >.> that gamesbyemail site is pretty neat |
| 22:06.15 | NightHawkTheSane | they have history of the world :p |
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| 22:17.47 | Adys | http://blue.mmo-champion.com/13/20677578762-infinite-dust-of-the-bandit.html |
| 22:17.47 | Adys | rofl |
| 22:19.21 | KarlKFI | hacker |
| 22:19.23 | Dagmar | They're now consumable using the [Snort] skill. |
| 22:19.34 | Dagmar | ...available to more than just goblins! |
| 22:19.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Doow (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/doow) |
| 22:21.46 | Lopeppeppy | rawr |
| 22:21.51 | Gryphon | ono i esceared of teh rawr! i need a huggle. |
| 22:22.31 | Lopeppeppy | ~huggle Gryphon |
| 22:22.46 | foxlit | huggles Gryphon. |
| 22:22.50 | Gryphon | huggles foxlit. |
| 22:25.53 | Dagmar | vomits. |
| 22:43.11 | ScytheBlade1 | cog|work: ? |
| 22:43.35 | cog|work | ScytheBlade1: linux command line mimicking tradewars :P |
| 22:43.57 | ScytheBlade1 | haha |
| 22:43.57 | ScytheBlade1 | win |
| 22:44.08 | ScytheBlade1 | well kinda win |
| 22:44.14 | ScytheBlade1 | The interface got painful kinda quick |
| 22:44.20 | ScytheBlade1 | But I'm also a spoiled youngin |
| 22:44.25 | cog|work | haha |
| 22:45.04 | ScytheBlade1 | also, google wave invite! |
| 22:45.06 | ScytheBlade1 | I am pleased |
| 22:45.09 | cog|work | you could call me an unspoiled youngin then... only reason i got into TW to begin with was 'cause i was always about 5 to 10 years behind the times in computers :P |
| 22:45.18 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 22:45.48 | NightHawkTheSane | ; |
| 22:45.51 | KarlKFI | invite me ScytheBlade1 |
| 22:46.09 | cog|work | me2! |
| 22:46.18 | cog|work | you should invite the starfish people imo ;) |
| 22:46.58 | ScytheBlade1 | gah |
| 22:47.12 | ScytheBlade1 | because I have a gmail that matches my desired username on google wave |
| 22:47.17 | ScytheBlade1 | I can't use it on my current gmail account |
| 22:47.24 | KarlKFI | wut? |
| 22:47.29 | KarlKFI | that doesn't make sense |
| 22:47.30 | cog|work | O.o |
| 22:47.49 | KarlKFI | it doesn't just use your gmail login? |
| 22:47.52 | ScytheBlade1 | I switched my primary google account from @gmail.com to an @averageurl.com, by making a new account |
| 22:47.56 | KarlKFI | google login* |
| 22:48.20 | ScytheBlade1 | gah |
| 22:48.24 | ScytheBlade1 | needs to be at least 6 long too |
| 22:48.38 | KarlKFI | no sbo 4 u |
| 22:48.42 | ScytheBlade1 | yup |
| 22:48.49 | KarlKFI | sbooo |
| 22:48.59 | ScytheBlade1 | or first name + last initial |
| 22:48.59 | ScytheBlade1 | stupid short first name |
| 22:49.02 | NightHawkTheSane | i like sboooo |
| 22:49.13 | KarlKFI | am i the only one that pronounces it sbooo? |
| 22:49.22 | NightHawkTheSane | probably |
| 22:49.24 | ScytheBlade1 | nah |
| 22:49.28 | NightHawkTheSane | i think of it as s-bo |
| 22:49.32 | ScytheBlade1 | people say it in any one of any number of ways |
| 22:49.34 | KarlKFI | the guild lol'd at me when i said your name |
| 22:49.37 | ScytheBlade1 | yeah |
| 22:49.40 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm used to it |
| 22:50.13 | KarlKFI | KarlKFI is nicely over 6 |
| 22:50.30 | KarlKFI | even tho the K in KFI stands for Karl and is thus redundant |
| 22:50.37 | ScytheBlade1 | first + middle initial + last initial is in use, first + last initial is too short |
| 22:50.41 | ScytheBlade1 | blargh |
| 22:51.40 | ScytheBlade1 | and deleting the gmail account means that I can never reuse that name again either, according to the FAQ |
| 22:51.48 | ScytheBlade1 | So I'm up a river without paddle, it would seem |
| 22:52.10 | KarlKFI | lame |
| 22:52.11 | ScytheBlade1 | sboooo is not available, but the following usernames are: |
| 22:52.13 | Dagmar | pjcrux: You don't get to just install it and it magically works on it's own. |
| 22:52.13 | ScytheBlade1 | ........................... |
| 22:52.17 | KarlKFI | lol |
| 22:52.39 | KarlKFI | yeah i thought it would just use my current google login |
| 22:52.43 | ScytheBlade1 | Me too |
| 22:52.46 | ScytheBlade1 | But it is forcing a username on me |
| 22:52.51 | KarlKFI | since i use that login for gmail and blogger and whatever else |
| 22:53.43 | ScytheBlade1 | EVERY VARIATION ON MY NAME HAS BEEN TAKEN |
| 22:54.01 | KarlKFI | rename yourself |
| 22:54.37 | NightHawkTheSane | so, on an unrelated note, does anyone want to buy the sboooo name on google? |
| 22:54.42 | ScytheBlade1 | ........ |
| 22:54.44 | Industrial | Bing Is Not Google |
| 22:54.46 | Industrial | ha ^ |
| 22:54.48 | ScytheBlade1 | ~lart NightHawkTheSane |
| 22:54.48 | purl | chops NightHawkTheSane in half with a free Solaris 7 CD |
| 22:54.53 | NightHawkTheSane | ; |
| 22:54.55 | NightHawkTheSane | ;) |
| 22:55.03 | ScytheBlade1 | oh man, I have 20 invites |
| 22:55.10 | ScytheBlade1 | adds NightHawkTheSane to the blacklist |
| 22:55.13 | NightHawkTheSane | :( |
| 22:55.19 | ScytheBlade1 | That's what you get |
| 22:55.20 | NightHawkTheSane | so, asking you to shoot me one, would not work? :P |
| 22:55.22 | Industrial | invites for wave? |
| 22:55.39 | ScytheBlade1 | yes |
| 22:55.46 | Industrial | tom.wieland@gmail.com, I'll bake you a space cake |
| 22:55.49 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 22:55.50 | Industrial | you'd have to come here to eat it tho |
| 22:55.55 | Industrial | ^___________^ |
| 22:56.04 | ScytheBlade1 | You be careful |
| 22:56.15 | ScytheBlade1 | Should I ever show up in $YourCity, I'll take you up on that |
| 22:56.22 | Industrial | Amsterdam ;o |
| 22:56.35 | ScytheBlade1 | So probably never then |
| 22:56.41 | KarlKFI | <3 sbo |
| 22:56.41 | Lopeppeppy | i bake cookies usually |
| 22:56.50 | Industrial | would be fun to meet more people from the UI community (met with clad once) |
| 22:56.57 | Lopeppeppy | and yu already have a company in my town, i've told you that Sbo |
| 22:57.02 | Industrial | or go to eg blizzcon >_> |
| 22:57.24 | Industrial | I stopped playing wow, bought aion and my graphics card broke |
| 22:57.27 | Industrial | karma? |
| 22:57.36 | ScytheBlade1 | Lopeppeppy: er? @ a company in your town |
| 22:57.37 | Industrial | have to wait 6 weeks >_> |
| 22:58.09 | NightHawkTheSane | Industrial: yes, karma. :P |
| 22:59.19 | Lopeppeppy | Sho mobile homes, i always read it as Sbo when I drive by. :) |
| 22:59.25 | ScytheBlade1 | haha |
| 22:59.28 | ScytheBlade1 | I do remember that now |
| 22:59.34 | Lopeppeppy | see? |
| 23:01.37 | NightHawkTheSane | http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_kr7h43warC1qzqvm2o1_1280.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0RYTHV9YYQ4W5Q3HQMG2&Expires=1256421886&Signature=mRPrhAbHOBDVAuq4bbvhPIMbRAY%3D |
| 23:07.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Corrodias (i=no@adsl-75-17-196-43.dsl.euclwi.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:11.11 | ScytheBlade1 | okay the first 40-ish seconds of the latest 30 rock is amazing |
| 23:13.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=muffins@pool-72-84-246-12.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) |
| 23:14.43 | Dagmar | Lots of jiggling? |
| 23:16.12 | NightHawkTheSane | this is a neat game: http://www.howtogeek.com/games/compulse/ |
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| 23:17.34 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tem] by ChanServ |
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| 23:43.30 | KarlKFI | lol i beat lvl 14 in 2 when it says par is 7 and pro is 5 |
| 23:43.41 | KarlKFI | > Pro |
| 23:43.51 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (n=sa@69.142.79.26) |
| 23:44.40 | Lopeppeppy | ? |
| 23:44.48 | Lopeppeppy | I do not know this geek language |
| 23:44.56 | KarlKFI | in the game he linked |
| 23:45.12 | Thunder_Child | KarlKFI, same |
| 23:45.20 | Thunder_Child | i was just about to say that |
| 23:45.52 | KarlKFI | 16 in 2 too |
| 23:46.01 | Thunder_Child | 15 in 1 |
| 23:46.08 | Lopeppeppy | online golf? |
| 23:46.14 | Thunder_Child | not quite |
| 23:46.18 | Thunder_Child | http://www.howtogeek.com/games/compulse/ |
| 23:47.44 | Lopeppeppy | opens to a golf game for me. |
| 23:48.16 | KarlKFI | lol my lvl 17 was funny. i got it with 2 but it bounced around for liek a minute before going in |
| 23:49.50 | alestane | The latest comic entry is HORRID. |
| 23:50.01 | Thunder_Child | 18 in 1 |
| 23:50.01 | alestane | I mean, it's good, but it's AWFUL. |
| 23:50.06 | Thunder_Child | oh...nvm |
| 23:50.25 | Lopeppeppy | wow, takes much more brains than I have right now, sorry... |
| 23:55.30 | KarlKFI | lvl 20 ouch |
| 23:55.34 | KarlKFI | need food |
| 23:55.50 | Thunder_Child | i wish it told you wich levle you are on |
| 23:55.58 | Thunder_Child | oh it does |
| 23:57.18 | KarlKFI | needs a mute button |
| 23:57.42 | Thunder_Child | ok, 20 is my limit |
| 23:57.48 | KarlKFI | yeah |
| 23:58.10 | Thunder_Child | i enjoy stressing my mind, not hemmering it |
| 23:58.13 | Lopeppeppy | eat, karl |
| 23:58.22 | KarlKFI | oh yeah lunch |
| 23:58.27 | KarlKFI | i should do that |
| 23:58.31 | Thunder_Child | hammering* |
