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| 00:08.38 | Shirik | loooool Microsoft |
| 00:08.40 | Shirik | they have turned into malicious programmers |
| 00:08.48 | Shirik | They released this "special gift" of new emoticons, etc., for download for MSN Messenger's 10 year anniversary |
| 00:08.59 | Shirik | As part of the download they offer the following default "options": |
| 00:09.03 | Shirik | - Get IE8 |
| 00:09.10 | Shirik | - Make Bing! default search provider |
| 00:09.23 | Shirik | - ... something else I forget but equally lol |
| 00:09.33 | Shirik | oh |
| 00:09.37 | Shirik | - Make MSN my home page |
| 00:10.07 | Thunder_Child | well, did you? |
| 00:10.22 | Shirik | no. |
| 00:10.25 | Thunder_Child | slacker |
| 00:11.35 | NeoTron | Shirik: and this is news how? :P |
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| 00:41.03 | Shirik | http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/09/25/2009-09-25_judge_dismisses_animal_cruelty_charges_against_police_officer_robert_melia_for_s.html |
| 00:42.08 | Corrodias | i'll take the unpopular stance and applaud the judge for his reasoning. |
| 00:51.07 | KarlKFI|work | those jail photos can make anyone look guilty |
| 00:55.05 | Thunder_Child | they do make people look guilty with a very good reason. only mug shots are taken like that, which pre-disposes you to that thought |
| 00:55.46 | NeoTron | of course it appears the bigger issue than having oral sex with a cow (ewww wtf?) is the sexual acts on three underage girls... with video evidence |
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| 00:56.22 | Thunder_Child | NeoTron, it never says who was giving the oral sex |
| 00:56.26 | NeoTron | true |
| 00:56.29 | NeoTron | but either way |
| 00:56.41 | NeoTron | you'd think a calve would, like, chew or something |
| 00:58.13 | Thunder_Child | i dont think calfs 'chew' on their mothers udder |
| 00:58.50 | NeoTron | good point |
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| 00:59.05 | NeoTron | but knowing human babies capacity to suckle... |
| 00:59.06 | NeoTron | ouch |
| 00:59.09 | Cairenn | actually, yes it does, re-read it |
| 00:59.14 | NeoTron | I mean my kids sucking on my finger - it's painful |
| 00:59.32 | Cairenn | "I think any reasonable juror could infer that a man's penis in the mouth of a calf is torment," a Burlington County assistant prosecutor, Kevin Morgan, said. "It's a crime against nature." |
| 00:59.51 | ScytheBlade1 | errr |
| 00:59.58 | ScytheBlade1 | Suddenly glad I didn't click that link |
| 01:00.07 | Thunder_Child | lies |
| 01:00.08 | NeoTron | methinks he needed a better girlfriend if using a calf was the better option |
| 01:00.18 | ScytheBlade1 | ................ |
| 01:01.34 | KarlKFI|work | so would a bulls penis in a calf's mouth also be a crime against nature or just child molestation... |
| 01:03.06 | KarlKFI|work | what is a crime against nature anyway, and how is that different than just unnatural? |
| 01:06.49 | KarlKFI|work | and if he was a layer, shouldn't he have said unnatural inter-species child molestation, to be precise? |
| 01:13.33 | Lunessa | ewwwwwww |
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| 01:35.25 | Amarande | well, as of tonight's Coren run I can tell I am no longer a scrub. :D |
| 01:37.32 | Amarande | hmm |
| 01:37.49 | Amarande | is 3400-4200 sufficient to be doing Ony25 or should I do VOA and TOC a few more weeks first? |
| 01:42.55 | ScytheBlade1 | Depends on how much deadweight the raid brings in general |
| 01:42.59 | A-KO | hmm |
| 01:43.06 | A-KO | anyone here nerdy enough to have used the WAIK to auto install Vista? |
| 01:43.49 | ScytheBlade1 | <-- |
| 01:44.21 | A-KO | If something can be defined in multiple phases, do you only have to define it in one? such as the Computername in Specialize vs. Oobe? |
| 01:44.59 | ScytheBlade1 | just one suffices |
| 01:45.05 | A-KO | ok cool |
| 01:45.06 | A-KO | works for me |
| 01:45.21 | A-KO | I'm working on a sysprep answer file for vista and busy working on when to launch apps to install, etc. |
| 01:45.50 | A-KO | currently debating on whether or not I should define runsynchronous in specialize or first logon......my assumption is that any icons that get created wouldn't be created in the specialize section |
| 01:45.56 | A-KO | so I might have to define it in firstlogon |
| 01:46.55 | ScytheBlade1 | generally speaking, you can build the installed application into the image |
| 01:47.49 | A-KO | yeah, I could do that, but some of the applications generate GUIDs for chatting back to our server components |
| 01:47.59 | A-KO | so it has to be "installed" at runtime, rather than prior to imaging |
| 01:48.56 | A-KO | and also do things like store the computer name in a local database and whatnot |
| 01:50.23 | Shirik | huggles ScytheBlade1 |
| 01:50.29 | ScytheBlade1 | stabinates Shirik |
| 01:50.37 | Shirik | :< |
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| 02:14.24 | Amarande | gah, I got kicked out of ony25 for only having 3500 DPS |
| 02:14.28 | Amarande | I thought that wasn't all that scrubby ... |
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| 02:15.48 | Amarande | you know, now I really worry about the people who ding 80 without having a guild lined up for them, even now, but especially when CSLFG is out |
| 02:15.54 | Amarande | will grouping basically have a 40k gold entrance fee on it then? |
| 02:16.54 | Amarande | (since it seems like each Crusader Orb based crafted BoE 226 goes for 10k+) |
| 02:17.59 | Amarande | oh, and not only CSLFG with 3.3 ... the gear gap, too |
| 02:18.09 | Amarande | what are we going to be seeing then, ilvl 258/271/284 for T10? |
| 02:21.09 | Amarande | (you know, it's a good thing IC is going to be the last raid content in WotLK. It's getting even worse than the gear gaps were in Classic ... LOL) |
| 02:21.30 | Codayus | No, actually, they're not. |
| 02:22.10 | Amarande | Codayus, what do you think happens to new 80s come 3.3 and CSLFG? |
| 02:22.13 | Codayus | And I'm not sure how you multiplied 10k by 2 and got 40k either. |
| 02:22.24 | Amarande | Ah, I thought there were more pieces of crafted 226 than there actually are |
| 02:22.41 | Amarande | however, when you count all the other stuff you probably have to buy off the AH to have a prayer of getting into even the lowest groups when CSLFG hits ... |
| 02:22.43 | Codayus | Same thing as always happens. Either they make friends and do fine, or they don't and whine a lot. |
| 02:22.59 | Amarande | Or we make friends who aren't as progressed and whine a lot because we *still* have to PUG. |
| 02:23.12 | A-KO | you can get crafted 226 stuff, crafted 245 stuff, you can definitely get 245 stuff just from running VOA pugs and the dailies. 10/25 TOC aren't too long and can be pugged. |
| 02:23.17 | A-KO | new 80s won't be too far behind |
| 02:23.22 | A-KO | there's always going to be "a gap" |
| 02:23.23 | A-KO | always |
| 02:23.28 | A-KO | a new 80 will never be at the top of the game |
| 02:23.31 | A-KO | that's just how it is |
| 02:23.37 | Amarande | Actually, I do have a few fairly well progressed friends, but they're in various guilds, and so I can't always rely on them based on where they're already saved |
| 02:23.46 | Amarande | or whether they have a responsibility to keep their saves clear for guild runs |
| 02:23.47 | A-KO | so pug it randomly |
| 02:24.01 | A-KO | my guild runs nearly all 10s and 25s yet I still pugged Ony 10 this week :P |
| 02:24.07 | Amarande | yeah, I do have tremendous luck lately with drops |
| 02:24.09 | A-KO | I've said it before and I'll say it again |
| 02:24.15 | A-KO | don't play wow to make friends |
| 02:24.18 | Amarande | I tried to pug Ony 25, we wiped at 44% and then 16%, and then I get booted as being the weakest link :| |
| 02:24.25 | A-KO | find what YOU are comfortable with, make friends at that level. |
| 02:24.29 | A-KO | It will be much easier on you. |
| 02:24.46 | A-KO | If you can't play with your RL friends, then hang out with them IRL :P |
| 02:24.50 | Amarande | even though I was following optimal Destro DPS rotations to near perfection |
| 02:25.00 | Arrowmaster | just try to get in as a 5th member in one of your friends guild heroics and try to show that you dont suck so maybe theyll invite you to more heroics |
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| 02:25.13 | A-KO | Arrowmaster: the problem is, most people that are at that level, do suck. |
| 02:25.15 | Amarande | At 3500, I'm sure I'm more than good enough for heroic 5's |
| 02:25.19 | A-KO | it's not that they are just looking for their break |
| 02:25.20 | A-KO | they just suck period |
| 02:25.28 | A-KO | and they don't want to join a guild that will rate their performance :P |
| 02:25.36 | A-KO | heroic 5 != Ony 10 |
| 02:25.40 | A-KO | err Ony 25 :P |
| 02:25.40 | Amarande | A-KO: so basically, it's a good thing to set a point where people have no hope but 'wait for the next expansion'? |
| 02:26.09 | Amarande | It's like, either you get in on the content early enough, or you lag behind, and then because you're at the same progression level as too many scrubs, people permanently assume you are one |
| 02:26.25 | Amarande | and unless you can find 4-24 other people you know who can get into WoW as diehard as you, you're stuck |
| 02:26.25 | A-KO | Amarande: No, it's well within your power to set the higher point. You choose not to. Nothing in the game takes more than a couple of hours to do, no matter what you think happens or see happen at the top of the game. Right now we're all clamoring for gear. And what will end up happening is while the expansion will be a reset, you will still find yourself quickly behind. |
| 02:26.35 | Codayus | Amarande: The current patch makes it incredibly easy to close the gear gap. |
| 02:26.42 | A-KO | Amarande: You can get well enough geared out of heroics and pugs to join a raiding guild |
| 02:27.03 | Amarande | A-KO: Even if I have to work till 9 or later on both weekend nights and usually 2 other nights a week as well? |
| 02:27.06 | Codayus | If you can't gear up enough to join a raid guild NOW, the problem is you, one way or another. *shrug* |
| 02:27.13 | Amarande | Or am I possibly going to have to make that choice between RL and WOW? |
| 02:27.19 | A-KO | Amarande: and that's the game's problem? |
| 02:27.27 | A-KO | So make the choice for RL |
| 02:27.30 | A-KO | I've done it |
| 02:27.36 | Codayus | (And you can always find a raid guild - on some server - that raids at a time convenient for you.) |
| 02:27.39 | Amarande | A-KO: so you're saying that WoW is mainly designed for people who work 9-5 jobs or are still student age, and the rest can bugger off? :P |
| 02:27.52 | A-KO | Amarande: it seems to be doing well regardless of your personal scheduling problems |
| 02:28.13 | Amarande | A-KO: and yet, despite it doing well, I wonder what % of the game's population never even get to see a heroic 5's, let alone a raid |
| 02:28.15 | A-KO | Amarande: I've held every work schedule while playing WoW, and when I had a schedule that didn't let me raid, I didn't complain--I was still making money. I took the time I wasn't raiding (during the day) and just farming gold. |
| 02:28.23 | A-KO | Amarande: very few at this point, to be honest. |
| 02:28.30 | A-KO | It's certainly not 90% if that's what you think. |
| 02:28.31 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: oh stop whining, back in classic my guild raided 4 hours a night 4 nights a week and that was considered casual |
| 02:28.44 | Amarande | Arrow: classic raiding schedules were legendary though :) |
| 02:28.51 | Iriel | Considered casual by the rest of the group that also had no life |
| 02:29.02 | Codayus | Amarande: Approaching 100% of the ones who want to and aren't absolutely terrible. Also, as Arrowmaster said, the game's more casual now than before. |
| 02:29.09 | A-KO | I've raided hardcore and have slowly climbed up the corporate ladder :P shrug. |
| 02:29.18 | Amarande | Arrow: Things like that were probably one of the reasons why they made instance content shorter each expansion, because the game was getting blamed for destroying people's lives :) |
| 02:29.44 | Amarande | you know, I have to wonder about that accusation against WoW sometimes |
| 02:29.57 | A-KO | yes, as far as time is concerned, the game is very casual in comparison. You don't have to farm potions all week, you don't have to farm resist gear or elixirs. Dungeons don't take 3-4 hours per clear, there is about a 45 minute timer on every dungeon (whereas beforehand it was a reward if you could clear Strat in 45 minutes) |
| 02:29.59 | Amarande | given how many of the players I know, particularly in my guild, who are happily married or engaged ... |
| 02:30.03 | Arrowmaster | also i think its been shown that a large portion of wow players never hit max level or stop playing their characters when they hit max level, just making new characters |
| 02:30.08 | Amarande | then again, I am far and away higher end than any of my guildies |
| 02:30.18 | Arrowmaster | there are a lot of casual players that never see endgame |
| 02:30.20 | Amarande | which I think is where I get torn |
| 02:30.31 | A-KO | there are a lot, but it's in the minority I would say |
| 02:30.42 | Amarande | I really don't want to dump my buddies, but I'm not sure how much I can do without guild support at this point unless I continue to be really lucky in VOA |
| 02:30.48 | A-KO | but it's fine to be casual, I don't have a problem with casual players. |
| 02:30.48 | Arrowmaster | yeah its still a minority but its a large minority |
| 02:30.51 | A-KO | Just don't bitch and complain |
| 02:31.11 | A-KO | If you want to play casually, go for it--but you do not deserve the same stuff as the people who do put a lot of time into it. It's just a matter of comparison. |
| 02:31.33 | Amarande | and by really don't want to dump my buddies ... I rather mean that, the other 80s in the guild are beginning to show interest in at least 5's, and if I left we'd lose a vital core DPS |
| 02:31.36 | A-KO | And really Amarande, you're in the wrong channel to be complaining about casual vs. hardcore, many of the people in here have taken the game so far they actually customize the game to their needs and spend a near FT job writing addons :P |
| 02:31.36 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: you cannot PvE at max level without a guild, plain and simple |
| 02:31.39 | Codayus | Amarande: If all you care about is doing Naxx clears, maybe the occasional partial Uld pug or Ony pug, then don't change guilds, continue to play casually, and stop WHINING about the decisions you've made. |
| 02:32.15 | A-KO | Amarande: after all, it is just a video game. |
| 02:32.36 | Amarande | A-KO: I'm not sure if that 'just a video game' dismissal is really a good idea at this point. |
| 02:32.44 | Amarande | To abandon MMOs may mean needing to give up being a gamer altogether at some point. |
| 02:32.49 | A-KO | does it? |
| 02:32.58 | Amarande | A-KO: The classic RPG is pretty much dead, and seems to be bifurcating in two directions |
| 02:33.08 | A-KO | I know quite a gamer who would beg to differ |
| 02:33.28 | Amarande | either you have all the time and availability investment to succeed at an MMO, or you need to learn super twitch dexterity to follow the evolution of the single player RPG which seems to be heading more and more towards hybridization with games like Ninja Gaiden and DMC |
| 02:33.28 | Arrowmaster | seriously every night all you do is bitch and moan in this channel, go do something about your problems or just quit playing the damn game already |
| 02:33.56 | Arrowmaster | ninja gaiden is not and never has been an rpg |
| 02:34.00 | A-KO | I not only play games on my iphone (super monkey ball, doom resurrection, wolf3d, Worms)--but I also play a multitude of games. Assassin's Creed, WoW, L4D, TF2. I also have an active social life, finding time to exercise. I work fulltime, sometimes more than that, 9-10 hours of work isn't uncommon for me. |
| 02:34.14 | A-KO | :P |
| 02:34.16 | Amarande | Arrow: the point is that fast action paradigm seems to be becoming increasingly the soul of so-called RPGs at this point as well |
| 02:34.18 | A-KO | it's all about time management |
| 02:34.33 | A-KO | your average JRPG-type game has about 40 hours of gameplay in it |
| 02:34.37 | Iriel | I think it's more that action games try and pass themselves off as RPG's |
| 02:34.40 | A-KO | yeah Iriel |
| 02:34.44 | A-KO | that's about correct :P |
| 02:34.50 | Amarande | I've seen an increasing number of console games that market themselves as RPGs and are more like Devil May Cry with the health and power bars labeled HP and MP |
| 02:34.52 | A-KO | prefers turn-based JRPGS |
| 02:34.58 | Amarande | A-KO: good luck finding them anymore |
| 02:35.20 | Amarande | I still haven't gone past PS2 console-wise because neither 360 nor PS3 seem to have much of anything in the traditional TBJRPG genre |
| 02:35.25 | A-KO | Amarande: There are plenty of turn-based RPGs I haven't played, so I'm having no problems finding them. |
| 02:35.50 | A-KO | it's time management, nothing else. |
| 02:36.05 | Amarande | A-KO: do you work daytime or in the evening, though? |
| 02:36.22 | Amarande | I keep thinking that's my time management sticking point - the fact that my shifts don't end till 9 or later four nights a weel |
| 02:36.27 | A-KO | I've worked dya, evening, and overnight. I've worked 10P-10A, 9A-6P, 4P-12A, and currently work 7A-4P |
| 02:36.37 | A-KO | in the past....3 years |
| 02:36.41 | A-KO | not to mention my side projects |
| 02:36.42 | Amarande | and Tuesday and Wednesday are not prime evenings for WoW, especially for the undergeared looking for a PUG. |
| 02:36.55 | Amarande | Tuesday and Wednesday are when everyone's still not saved, so you can still cherry pick pretty effectively. |
| 02:37.12 | Amarande | I wouldn't be surprised if I got into VOA25 so easily this time because it was a Sunday night and an awful lot of people who would otherwise quickly fill the group were already saved |
| 02:37.26 | A-KO | Amarande: you could do what everyone else does, and I know you might find this appalling, but try and get consistent days off of work, or look for a different job. Many people find time to switch shifts or take off of work for particular events, and the more senior you are at your job, the more you can do it. |
| 02:37.36 | A-KO | A buddy of mine guarantees he has Tues-Thurs off for our raid nights, he works at Walmart. |
| 02:37.49 | Amarande | A-KO: do his total work hours and paycheck get shredded for it? |
| 02:37.52 | A-KO | no? |
| 02:37.57 | A-KO | switch your hours with someone |
| 02:37.58 | A-KO | if you can't |
| 02:38.01 | A-KO | find another job |
| 02:38.03 | A-KO | your job is your choice |
| 02:38.32 | ScytheBlade1 | hm |
| 02:38.36 | Amarande | Not sure I can leave my job without losing one of my big RL things each year though :| |
| 02:38.45 | ScytheBlade1 | I just got an in-game whisper concerning blizzard's "new mounts" |
| 02:38.48 | A-KO | then don't complain about wow? |
| 02:38.49 | A-KO | lol ScytheBlade1 |
| 02:38.50 | Codayus | Find a guild based in another timezone. *shrug* |
| 02:38.51 | ScytheBlade1 | I have this odd temptation to blast that site |
| 02:38.56 | ScytheBlade1 | With 200mbit of random data |
| 02:38.58 | Amarande | Even if I do find another job, finding one that's willing to let me have Labor Day weekend off every year, such that I can buy plane tickets etc. months in advance? |
| 02:39.09 | A-KO | Amarande: jobs provide you with vacation time |
| 02:39.10 | A-KO | use it |
| 02:39.36 | A-KO | I put in for my blizzcon time back in January of last year |
| 02:39.41 | A-KO | they gave it to me, no quarrels |
| 02:39.45 | A-KO | and I was in the middle of a job change at work |
| 02:39.46 | Amarande | A-KO: Blizzcon isn't a holiday weekend, though |
| 02:39.54 | A-KO | it was for me :P |
| 02:40.00 | Amarande | ahh, which holiday? |
| 02:40.04 | A-KO | Unless you work retail, there aren't "blackout" dates. |
| 02:40.10 | Amarande | For me the big con is Dragon*Con, and I do work retail |
| 02:40.15 | A-KO | then get out of retail |
| 02:40.16 | A-KO | problem solved |
| 02:40.20 | Amarande | If I didn't have 11 years seniority, I probably wouldn't get to go |
| 02:40.32 | A-KO | Sounds like you have more problems than just WoW |
| 02:40.37 | A-KO | and what your raid times are |
| 02:40.51 | Amarande | A-KO: yeah, "general interest deadlock" seems to be probably about the size of it |
| 02:41.07 | A-KO | I've worked for the same company for the past 4 years and have held 3 different positions |
| 02:41.15 | A-KO | it's all about personal drive :P |
| 02:42.11 | Amarande | Plain and simple I seem to have too many interests all of which need the same time slots |
| 02:42.21 | A-KO | then prioritize |
| 02:42.26 | Amarande | It's kinda like going to Dragon Con and trying to attend -all- the panels you wanted to go to. :) |
| 02:42.28 | Codayus | Amarande: That is a terrible and unique problem. |
| 02:42.30 | A-KO | WoW is obviously not on your highest list of priority, so play something else. |
| 02:42.36 | A-KO | detects the sarcasm :P |
| 02:42.58 | Amarande | So basically, MMOs need a marriage-like relationship between player and game or should not be played? |
| 02:43.06 | A-KO | sure, why not? |
| 02:43.09 | A-KO | There's nothing wrong with that |
| 02:43.14 | A-KO | the games industry is billions of dollars large and growing |
| 02:43.24 | Amarande | Okay, so you're saying that basically, to be a raider, you have to have NO other interest in priority to that. At all. |
| 02:43.25 | Arrowmaster | if you actually want to play the game with other people and not be solo the entire time, yes |
| 02:43.26 | A-KO | There is tons of opportunity to find games, even MMOs, that fit your time schedule. |
| 02:43.36 | Codayus | MMOs, like any hobby, need some time devoted to them. If you enjoy them enough, prioritize them. If you don't, then don't. |
| 02:43.37 | A-KO | there are casual online free MMOs you can play if you want |
| 02:43.40 | Codayus | Either way, your decision. |
| 02:44.12 | Amarande | Maybe Cata should be designed so everything can be PUGged. But then the top progression raiders would whine, I suppose. |
| 02:44.15 | A-KO | Amarande: I make sure to prioritize my raiding times over hanging out with friends short of special events and holidays. |
| 02:44.26 | Arrowmaster | if you want to be in a raid guild you have to be able to attend the raids consistently |
| 02:44.32 | Codayus | (Unlike some hobbys, MMOs do benefit from having a block of time available at the same time every week, but that's so trivially accomplished that it's hardly worth mentioning.) |
| 02:44.45 | Amarande | And for some reason, Blizzard seems to have decided that top progression raiders' happiness is a priority, even though they represent a small minority of WoW players. |
| 02:44.46 | Arrowmaster | if everything could be PUGed people would still have raid guilds and they would still be the best |
| 02:44.49 | ScytheBlade1 | bah, the site is hosted in bejing |
| 02:44.51 | A-KO | Codayus: hell, to be honest, I find the MMO easier to play than the average game--at least it's a consistent time every week |
| 02:44.56 | A-KO | everything else I do is inconsistent |
| 02:45.08 | Amarande | You know what seems really odd in this light? |
| 02:45.11 | Codayus | Amarande: HELLO, NEWS FLASH. Wrath is designed so everything can be pugged. I have been in succesful Uld 10, ToC 10, and Ony 10 pugs. That's every bit of content currently in game. |
| 02:45.12 | A-KO | friends log on and invite me to L4D randomly while I'm in the middle of a project, friends call me to go out |
| 02:45.22 | Amarande | Blizzard's e-sport idea being targeted at PvP. |
| 02:45.24 | A-KO | WoW is stable |
| 02:45.35 | A-KO | Amarande: the top pve guilds tend to be the top pvpers also |
| 02:45.36 | A-KO | just an FYI |
| 02:45.41 | Amarande | I'd think e-sporting would be better targeted at PvE, seeing as PvE by nature requires a large, consistent roster like traditional team sports |
| 02:46.05 | Amarande | whereas PvP, on the other hand, is by nature much more casual, since BGs are normally PUG based by default, and you never need more than five people together at once for arena |
| 02:46.15 | ZorbaBeta | codayus, not *everything*, but everything in easy mode, yes |
| 02:46.15 | A-KO | Amarande; # of people != casual |
| 02:46.28 | A-KO | Amarande: The amount of people something takes has little to do with how casual the content is |
| 02:46.32 | Amarande | A-KO: well, it's more casual in terms of the necessary organizational skills, at least. |
| 02:46.38 | A-KO | I've been in 10 man raids that take longer to do than 25's |
| 02:46.45 | Amarande | Five good buddies who gather together each weekend can do arena without needing to worry about anyone else. |
| 02:46.46 | A-KO | and the 10 man heroics are certainly not very forgiving |
| 02:46.56 | A-KO | Amarande: and 25 good players can gather for a few days every week to do something |
| 02:47.00 | A-KO | on top of that |
| 02:47.04 | Codayus | ZorbaBeta: Well, yes, obviously. :) Although I've been in mostly guild raids that have pugged a couple people and done Uld hardmodes. That's rare, of course. |
| 02:47.06 | A-KO | being as how they can do it after work/school/whatever. |
| 02:47.19 | Amarande | A good raid guild on the other hand, with sufficient redundancy and substitutes and such to make sure every raid works out, can need to be the size of a fairly large Internet community. |
| 02:47.24 | A-KO | Amarande: I find the wow raiding schedule to be quite conducive to a normal person's lifestyle. You can do it on nights you don't have anything else. |
| 02:47.29 | A-KO | uhm |
| 02:47.34 | A-KO | 25 people is a fairly large internet community? |
| 02:47.36 | A-KO | 25-30? |
| 02:47.43 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: no raid guilds have very little extras |
| 02:47.43 | A-KO | that's not even the size of the classrooms in my high school :( |
| 02:47.47 | Amarande | A-KO: 25 people just barely gets you a raid, assuming everyone is able to show up absolutely every time |
| 02:47.53 | A-KO | Amarande: and most raid guilds have that |
| 02:47.55 | A-KO | 25-30 tops |
| 02:47.58 | A-KO | for their raid roster |
| 02:48.05 | Amarande | Ahh. |
| 02:48.12 | Codayus | In the current content, honestly, it doesn't make sense to have a large roster. |
| 02:48.17 | A-KO | nope |
| 02:48.19 | Arrowmaster | if you have extra people they will leave and find other guilds |
| 02:48.43 | Codayus | With the class changes and buff changes in wrath, plus dual specs, you can do normal modes with practically any 10 (or 25) people who happen to be online. |
| 02:48.46 | Amarande | Arrow: assuming the guilds are there to be found |
| 02:48.53 | A-KO | Amarande: they are |
| 02:48.54 | A-KO | there are plenty |
| 02:49.00 | ZorbaBeta | a-ko, not always |
| 02:49.01 | A-KO | and most of them advertise themselves as "being casual friendly" |
| 02:49.05 | ZorbaBeta | on my server there is basically nothing |
| 02:49.07 | Amarande | I'm not sure exactly how one goes about finding a guild that matches one's schedule and gear progression and isn't fail |
| 02:49.08 | ZorbaBeta | however, on most servers, yes. |
| 02:49.23 | A-KO | ZorbaBeta: on the 3 servers I've been on each had a thriving guild community, in fact, ti's been a bitch recruiting because everyone doing this. |
| 02:49.25 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: you dont, most guilds are fail, those that arent dont want you |
| 02:49.27 | Amarande | I guess I tend to have a sinking feeling that most of the guilds that advertise as being more casual are the sort that wipe at 95% on everything. |
| 02:49.27 | A-KO | so I"m hoping cataclysm fixes that |
| 02:49.29 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, ask in /2, ask on your guild forums, check up one of the many progression sites, look for the best guilds, and check their websites |
| 02:49.34 | Codayus | Slightly more casual guilds - like mine - routinely hit friends lists and semi-pug a few slots most weeks. |
| 02:49.54 | A-KO | Amarande: they are, but apparently you're perfectly fit for that kind of guild. You can't show up all the time, you got booted from an Ony 25 pug for being low DPS. |
| 02:49.54 | Amarande | The equivalent to all those BC guilds who couldn't even manage post-several-nerfs Kara, basically. |
| 02:49.57 | A-KO | It sounds like a good fit Amarande |
| 02:50.01 | A-KO | don't think so highly of yourself |
| 02:50.05 | A-KO | because it sounds like you're not very much :P |
| 02:50.11 | Amarande | heh, actually, that low DPS had more to do with gear than anything else |
| 02:50.18 | A-KO | incorrect |
| 02:50.22 | Amarande | I went into it knowing pretty well that my gear was going to be borderline at best, but decided to give it a shot anyway |
| 02:50.27 | A-KO | If you are so low on DPS that you got booted from a raid |
| 02:50.29 | A-KO | that was not gear |
| 02:51.01 | Amarande | A-KO: if you're following optimal rotation with a good spec, staying alive, not ooming, and are still having low dps, it's probably gear |
| 02:51.03 | A-KO | You can get away with 213-219 gear in most raids, and while it will limit your DPS, if you were a good player you could make it work. |
| 02:51.21 | Amarande | Most of my stuff is still 187-200 except for one piece of T7 and one of T9 |
| 02:51.23 | A-KO | Amarande: optimal rotation with a good spec != optimal rotation with a good spec for your personal ability. |
| 02:51.33 | A-KO | well that's your problem, yet again |
| 02:51.38 | A-KO | you can do 5 mans and get 226 gear |
| 02:51.39 | A-KO | get on it |
| 02:51.47 | A-KO | do TOC 5 heroic every day, get 219 gear |
| 02:51.52 | A-KO | save up triumph emblems |
| 02:51.54 | A-KO | get 245 gear |
| 02:51.59 | A-KO | when you're done gettign 245 gear, get 232 gear |
| 02:52.05 | ZorbaBeta | a-ko, I think amarande wants to get into a competent guild that cares more about player skill than gear |
| 02:52.16 | ZorbaBeta | and doesn't want to spend months gearing up for it |
| 02:52.16 | Amarande | VOA25 each week seems to be a good idea, also. |
| 02:52.22 | ZorbaBeta | and I can perfectly understand that position, too. |
| 02:52.25 | Amarande | Yeah, and Zorba has a good handle on things. |
| 02:52.35 | A-KO | ZorbaBeta: no, he wants in a guild that can carry him. There's a distinct difference. He can't raid consistently, he can't carry his weight, why would any reasonable guild want him? |
| 02:52.43 | ZorbaBeta | (i got into my current guild with Heroic gear and got no less than six upgrades on the first run) |
| 02:53.07 | ZorbaBeta | a-ko, I'm not saying guilds would leap at the chance to have him, but I'm in a similar situation with my guild |
| 02:53.20 | Amarande | A-KO: I'm feeling not confident about consistent raiding due to not knowing of guilds that go well with my schedule |
| 02:53.26 | ZorbaBeta | they wanted another tank, I proved that I knew my shit even though my gear was kind of dubious. They geared me up and I show up about half the time. |
| 02:53.27 | A-KO | ZorbaBeta: he could jion a guild that is going to run the content he's going to run, with similar problems, and leap frog into another guild once he's finished that. |
| 02:53.45 | Amarande | and as for carrying my weight, like I said, this current raid in particular, I was quite aware that I was probably going in over my head, and it turned out that this was indeed the case |
| 02:53.49 | ZorbaBeta | a-ko, true. personally I dislike people who intentionally guildhop without warning |
| 02:53.50 | A-KO | ZorbaBeta: but what Amarande has stated is he would rather the game be brought down to his level |
| 02:53.53 | Amarande | but like I said, I decided to take a shot at it anyway |
| 02:54.04 | ZorbaBeta | if amarande's said that I haven't heard it :P |
| 02:54.12 | A-KO | ZorbaBeta: eh, it's almost to be expected in guilds like that, or with certain players. I certainly dislike guild hoppers but you can't be PISSEd at them, short of taking legendaries. |
| 02:54.17 | A-KO | ZorbaBeta: read up :P |
| 02:54.21 | ScytheBlade1 | Fun story |
| 02:54.29 | Amarande | the RL wanted 4k, I had seen meters showing that I HAD done 4k in certain encounters, therefore, I thought I could at least give it a try |
| 02:54.32 | Codayus | Assuming the problem is your gear and not *YOU* - and frankly, I suspect it's the latter, not the former - then make some friends with similar schedules who run the content your interested in. Problem solved. |
| 02:54.34 | ScytheBlade1 | A mid-bottem rung guild recently compelted their legendary |
| 02:54.35 | A-KO | we gave 15 fragments to a shaman who bailed on us a few weeks ago. |
| 02:54.36 | ScytheBlade1 | Gave it to their GM |
| 02:54.41 | ScytheBlade1 | Who up and left to the top guild on the server |
| 02:54.52 | ScytheBlade1 | ^_________________^ |
| 02:55.00 | A-KO | ScytheBlade1: I'm hoping cataclysm fixes things like that |
| 02:55.03 | A-KO | with the whole guild items thing |
| 02:55.05 | ZorbaBeta | scythe, I heard a great story of that exact thing happening |
| 02:55.06 | Amarande | however, on the particular fight with Ony, somehow I only ended up at 3.5k, and we kept wiping, so they eventually gave me the boot so they could get someone in better shinies |
| 02:55.12 | ZorbaBeta | they finally got Val'anyr together for their best healer |
| 02:55.15 | ScytheBlade1 | That guild is currently imploding |
| 02:55.25 | ScytheBlade1 | Slowly, but surely |
| 02:55.26 | ZorbaBeta | he instantly picked up an amazing ego and started making demands, so they booted him, and he went to the top guild on the server |
| 02:55.29 | A-KO | Amarande: When did you hit 80? |
| 02:55.33 | ZorbaBeta | which he got booted from in about two weeks for being a loot whore |
| 02:55.37 | Amarande | A-KO: late December |
| 02:55.43 | A-KO | Amarande: and you are still in 187-200 blues? |
| 02:55.46 | A-KO | like I said |
| 02:55.48 | ZorbaBeta | transferred servers because nobody would take him, joined a new guild, it *also* booted him in two weeks. |
| 02:55.48 | A-KO | the player is the problem |
| 02:55.49 | A-KO | not the game |
| 02:55.50 | ZorbaBeta | justice is served. |
| 02:55.56 | Amarande | I also took a six month or so break from March to September, though |
| 02:56.17 | ZorbaBeta | also I don't think either the player or the game is the problem |
| 02:56.23 | A-KO | Amarande: I hit 80 in mid December, and was already Naxx geared out by January, heading into Ulduar in the springtime. |
| 02:56.36 | ZorbaBeta | I don't actually see a problem, besides "I have a weird schedule and dubious gear" |
| 02:56.46 | Amarande | What Zorba says. |
| 02:56.47 | alestane | Gotta love the way one of my students has already learned the "I can't tell you my ideas 'cause you could steal them, but they're really original and no-one has ever done this before" mantra. |
| 02:56.59 | Amarande | I have a weird schedule, and my gear's borderline at best, mainly carried by two lucky pieces from VOA |
| 02:57.05 | A-KO | ZorbaBeta: well, it's not a problem per say, it's a problem to him because he wants the game to be brought down to his level of inability to play, which then makes it my problem. |
| 02:57.06 | A-KO | :P |
| 02:57.24 | A-KO | either way |
| 02:57.28 | ZorbaBeta | a-ko, you keep saying he wants the game brought down, and I don't see any evidence of that at all |
| 02:57.29 | A-KO | there's no need to bitch about it from him. |
| 02:57.32 | A-KO | ZorbaBeta |
| 02:57.37 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, seriously, check your server on wowheroes or whatever, find the top guilds, check their sites, if they don't sound like douches, apply and explain your situation in detail |
| 02:57.45 | Amarande | Let's put it this way. I am a rather strong advocate of, when seeking to do more DPS, consulting EJ, seeing if there's a better spec, checking what the best rotations are for that spec, learning the rotations and buying the glyphs, etc. |
| 02:57.47 | ZorbaBeta | expect to be put on raid waitlists |
| 02:57.51 | ZorbaBeta | but be okay with that. |
| 02:57.58 | Amarande | If I have any skill issue at all, it would be inexperience with specific fights. |
| 02:58.31 | A-KO | [22:44] <Amarande> Maybe Cata should be designed so everything can be PUGged. But then the top progression raiders would whine, I suppose. |
| 02:58.57 | A-KO | Amarande: there is no excuse for that either. There's wowwiki, wowhead's comments, as well as tankspot.com and youtube. |
| 02:59.03 | Amarande | A-KO: I suppose I was seeking to have organizational/business type skill eliminated from WoW and have it be borne on the back of gaming skill alone |
| 02:59.30 | A-KO | Amarande: I'm not sure which games you've played but organizational skill is a component of every multiplayer game in existence. |
| 02:59.48 | Codayus | Amarande: What makes stuff non-puggable now is, in fact, the amount of gaming skill it requires. |
| 02:59.51 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, never ever play Eve Online |
| 02:59.59 | A-KO | lol |
| 02:59.59 | Amarande | Remember, I came from Guild Wars, which was much less sensitive to schedule. I became dissatisfied with it due to the classism, though. |
| 03:00.05 | ZorbaBeta | I think amarande may just have been unaware that everything *can* be pugged |
| 03:00.08 | Codayus | It's why people pug Naxx constantly, Uld 10 occasionally, and harder content less often. |
| 03:00.27 | A-KO | yeah, gear is not really the issue in WoW these days |
| 03:00.27 | NightHawkTheSane | ZorbaBeta: 'can' is a funny term like that :) |
| 03:00.29 | A-KO | it is player skill |
| 03:00.41 | A-KO | gear helps |
| 03:00.43 | Amarande | Too much endgame content in GW, pretty much, was such that basically if your main wasn't part of the current FotM party for that content, you *just didn't go* |
| 03:00.48 | Codayus | Trust me, it doesn't take any more organization to make a ToGC 25 raid than a Naxx 25 raid. It does, however, need better people. |
| 03:01.01 | Amarande | And most FotM parties included three or four or so primary classes out of the ten the game had, so ... yeah. |
| 03:01.13 | Amarande | It didn't take much for me to move over to WoW once I learned friends were playing. :) |
| 03:01.25 | Codayus | (And better gear, but gear is very very trivially fixed.) |
| 03:01.28 | ZorbaBeta | a-ko, gear can keep you from beating onyxia as a fresh lv80 |
| 03:01.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (n=Testing@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 03:01.32 | A-KO | Amarande: Either way you look at it, WoW has millions of players, Guild Wars doesn't. WoW is doing something right, even with its supposedly more "hardcore" gaming. |
| 03:01.52 | A-KO | ZorbaBeta: I'm not saying it's not necessary, I'm saying I've met players that are better geared that do lower DPS than players worse geared than they are. |
| 03:01.55 | ZorbaBeta | it's not a big issue because you can get it moderately quickly, but "moderately quickly" is still, like, a month |
| 03:01.56 | A-KO | and it's fairly common |
| 03:02.00 | ZorbaBeta | well yeah that happens all the time |
| 03:02.04 | A-KO | I pug nearly everything that isn't on my guild's raid scheudle. |
| 03:02.07 | ZorbaBeta | but is also fairly meaningless. that just means skill is important. |
| 03:02.12 | A-KO | ifi t's not Tues-Thurs night, I'm pugging |
| 03:02.22 | Codayus | ZorbaBeta: Yes. But gear can't stop you clearing Naxx, OS, EoE, VoA, and all heroics. And 1-2 weeks of doing that, and you've got the gear for Ony. :-) |
| 03:02.27 | ZorbaBeta | a-ko, so if I show up in all blues and a few greens, and I want to do onyxia, and I say "no I'm good at the game, I promise", you'll take me? |
| 03:02.41 | ZorbaBeta | codayus, I think it takes more than a week or two, honestly |
| 03:02.54 | Amarande | A-KO: I suspect the fact that every class is actually useful is one of the reasons WoW is successful. :) |
| 03:03.06 | Amarande | Like I said, GW had ten classes, of which three or four really got to go much of anywhere during a given timeframe. |
| 03:03.16 | A-KO | ZorbaBeta: That depends on a lot. If I've seen you play and I'm sure that your blues and greens aren't going to hinder us from downing the boss, sure. I do only rudimentary gear checks, and I don't look for the highest end of gear when looking for players, I just look for any effort put into the player at all. |
| 03:03.18 | Amarande | Usually it was the Ranger, Necromancer, and Monk that formed most groups |
| 03:03.22 | A-KO | So for the higher end 25 content, it's 219+ |
| 03:03.32 | ZorbaBeta | a-ko, fair enough. most players, I must say, are not that permissive |
| 03:03.56 | ZorbaBeta | there's a running joke among my friends that we're about half a year away from requiring heirlooms for RFC and Deadmines |
| 03:03.57 | A-KO | ZorbaBeta: yes, but most of those puggers are pretty bad anyway. |
| 03:04.00 | Amarande | Due primarily to game mechanics that massively favored the larger group in battles between two groups, and thus the fact that Rangers with pets, and Minion Master Necromancers were quite OP. |
| 03:04.27 | Codayus | ZorbaBeta: Hmm, depends on luck, and how well geared the rest of the raid is. You can be carried through ToC 10 in terrible gear, for example. |
| 03:04.37 | Amarande | A-KO: And actually, I think if I had met your gear standard when going into Ony 25, I would have made the necessary DPS. |
| 03:04.40 | Codayus | Any the upgrades are great. |
| 03:04.47 | ZorbaBeta | codayus, but now we're into the realm of carrying |
| 03:04.51 | Amarande | Again, I took a risk as to whether my borderline capabilities were enough and failed. |
| 03:04.51 | A-KO | ZorbaBeta: show me a player in blues/greens that can avoid deep breathes in Ony 25, and I'll show you a raid spot. |
| 03:05.01 | A-KO | Amarande: did you die at all to a deep breathe? |
| 03:05.01 | Amarande | It's better to try and fail than to not try. :) |
| 03:05.03 | ZorbaBeta | I mean yes, if he could zone in, a great guild could carry a lv1 through heroic htoc25 |
| 03:05.05 | Amarande | A-KO: Nope. |
| 03:05.20 | Amarande | First time I died it was over pretty quickly due to extreme lack of add management |
| 03:05.20 | A-KO | Amarande: did you get whipped? die to a warder? |
| 03:05.29 | Amarande | and the second time I got 1-shotted due to a warder that appeared near me |
| 03:05.49 | Amarande | a 20k hit, I think it might have been a crit |
| 03:05.57 | Amarande | I didn't look at the combat log |
| 03:06.00 | Codayus | ZorbaBeta: Heh, well. *shrug* I was thinking of the last ToC 10 we did. Guild group, 9 people online, late at night. Hmmmm. "Anyone got any friends online?" "...no". Pugged a terrible hunter in mostly blues, 1 shot every boss, hunter got 4 epics. |
| 03:06.04 | A-KO | Amarande: how's that eve npossible? Warders don't "spawn near you" unless you're up in that hallway. |
| 03:06.14 | Amarande | hmm, was it a warder? |
| 03:06.14 | Codayus | Lucky hunter, I guess. :) |
| 03:06.15 | A-KO | or you're not paying attention |
| 03:06.29 | Amarande | all I know is it was one of those big dragonish things that look like bigger versions of the ones in Dustwallow |
| 03:06.48 | Amarande | It's possible a tank went down - I was too busy focusing on Ony as I had been told by the RL |
| 03:06.54 | Amarande | RL said very specifically RANGED ON ONY NOT THE ADDS |
| 03:07.07 | Amarande | by the time I saw the thing was near me, I was being hit |
| 03:07.24 | A-KO | ZorbaBeta: it all comes odwn to this, right? generally people require certain things not because of what the individual player is, but because of what they've experienced. The other day I was running an Ony 10 pug that ended up failing. Why? Because I let the people who didn't want to get on vent in. I asked repeatedly if they had done the fight, one said they farmed it at 60. I announced the fight over raid warning, and ready checked. |
| 03:07.27 | Codayus | Honestly, if the raid is failing and the LOWEST DPS person is doing 3.5k... |
| 03:07.30 | Codayus | ...the problem isn't DPS. |
| 03:07.34 | A-KO | The priest that REFUSED to get on vent |
| 03:07.38 | A-KO | swearing he/she had done the fight |
| 03:07.43 | A-KO | died to the first deep breathe |
| 03:07.46 | A-KO | I bressed |
| 03:07.48 | A-KO | he/she died again |
| 03:08.15 | Amarande | Codayus: Yeah, they basically replaced me because they felt that if they replaced a 3.5 with a 5k, maybe it would go faster enough for them to make it |
| 03:08.17 | Codayus | Deep breaths are so easy to avoid in the new version of the fight. :( |
| 03:08.21 | A-KO | It's not that people are looking for certain gear, they're looking for peple that have dedicated their time into the game and are on their level of play. The assumption is that if you're mostly raid geared out, you at least raid consistently. |
| 03:08.34 | ZorbaBeta | a-ko, yes, that's true, and I'm not arguing it. but it does mean that someone who is skilled and yet ungeared has kind of a bitch of a time gearing up |
| 03:08.37 | ZorbaBeta | at least, doing so quickly |
| 03:08.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (n=callahan@74-132-200-5.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 03:08.53 | Amarande | A-KO: yeah, I agree with Zorba |
| 03:08.57 | Amarande | although it has much improved from BC |
| 03:09.10 | Amarande | in BC, caster DPS hitting 70 late in the lifespan of the xpack were often basically screwed |
| 03:09.12 | A-KO | ZorbaBeta: there is no excuse that Amarande has been 80 since December and still in 187-200 blues. None whatsoever except for pure laziness. |
| 03:09.26 | ZorbaBeta | a-ko, what, not playing for months doesn't count? :P |
| 03:09.40 | A-KO | March-September, that still leaves January, February, and all of the new content. |
| 03:09.48 | Amarande | A-KO: so basically, you're saying that taking a break and actually deigning to spend some time with content that wasn't heroic dungeon based is laziness? |
| 03:10.10 | Codayus | Well, if you CARE about high end content, you've been playing enough to get better gear. |
| 03:10.13 | NightHawkTheSane | I think he's saying you have zero excuse for not at least being in naxx level gear |
| 03:10.21 | Amarande | Basically you're saying that if you want to do endgame content, you push any thought of anything NOT endgame content out the window, then. Unless it's dailies to afford stuff from the AH. |
| 03:10.24 | A-KO | Amarande: What I'm saying is that if you really gave that much of a damn abouti t, you'd be in WoW instead of spending the past hour moaning on here about how undergeared you are. |
| 03:10.29 | Codayus | So... Do you not care, or have you just screwed up? |
| 03:10.46 | ZorbaBeta | what if amarande did not *used* to care, but now does? |
| 03:10.50 | NightHawkTheSane | A-KO: you'll see thats a pattern. :) |
| 03:10.51 | ZorbaBeta | seriously guys |
| 03:10.54 | ZorbaBeta | sometimes people change their mind |
| 03:10.57 | Amarande | Codayus: I did spend perhaps more time than I should have farming mats and doing quests that didn't directly relate to endgame content |
| 03:11.00 | ZorbaBeta | sometimes people get busy. it happens. |
| 03:11.17 | ZorbaBeta | I haven't raided in a month myself, just out of lack of time. doesn't mean my guildies should boot me out because I'm not in toc-25 gear. |
| 03:11.17 | A-KO | ZorbaBeta: that's fine, but he's sitting here moaning and bitching about it rather than doing something about it. I'm just saying :P |
| 03:11.31 | ZorbaBeta | a-ko, I think he's trying to find out if there's a more efficient way to do something about it |
| 03:11.33 | A-KO | ZorbaBeta: he's in 187-200 blues and wanting to do the top end of heroic raid content. |
| 03:11.49 | ZorbaBeta | if you have a pile of dirt that needs to be moved and a pair of tweezers, you go find someone with a shovel |
| 03:11.50 | Amarande | I also have had a stubborn, perhaps pigheaded loyalty to my friends and their guild, even though it gives me precious little support towards endgame. |
| 03:11.54 | ZorbaBeta | you don't start tweezering dirt. |
| 03:12.05 | Amarande | What Zorba said. |
| 03:12.40 | Amarande | And I do acknowledge and appreciate the improvement from BC (viz. the fact that I've actually BEEN to some heroics and one 25-man) |
| 03:12.49 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: you can't have your cake and eat it to. if gaming with your friends and endgame raiding is mutually exclusive, you need to choose one, and you lose all rights to bitch about lacking the other |
| 03:12.54 | A-KO | ZorbaBeta: yes but in WoW the shovel is each content patch, and they have given that. Every heroic 5 man drops conquest badges, with one every day giving you 2 triumph badges. You can pug a Naxx 10 or a 25 on the weekend during off times, that takes about 3-4 hours to do, and get so many conquest badges that within 1-2 weeks you'll be half 226-geared out. |
| 03:13.08 | NightHawkTheSane | and yet, despite that, you seem to manage to bitch about both. |
| 03:13.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (n=caleb@dsl4E5C0660.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 03:13.18 | ZorbaBeta | a-ko, agreed, but I'd say that the power tools are a guild that is willing to gear you up a little bit |
| 03:13.21 | Amarande | BC basically destroyed fresh 70's, since apparently heroics became the next step in progression after Kara |
| 03:13.24 | A-KO | ZorbaBeta: he doesn't need a guild |
| 03:13.26 | A-KO | he can pug all that |
| 03:13.29 | A-KO | I pug my druid |
| 03:13.30 | ZorbaBeta | now, whether amarande is willing to abandon friends for the sake of power tools, I don't know. |
| 03:13.40 | ZorbaBeta | a-ko, and you can move the pile of dirt with tweezers too |
| 03:13.42 | ZorbaBeta | doesn't mean you should |
| 03:13.44 | NightHawkTheSane | ZorbaBeta: like i said, thats a choice that has to be made |
| 03:13.49 | A-KO | ZorbaBeta: Nobody's saying abandon friends. I've not abandoned mine. My guild can't even get the first boss in toc 25 heroic down :P |
| 03:13.52 | Arrowmaster | heroics were before kara in progression |
| 03:13.53 | ZorbaBeta | nighthawk, that, I agree with |
| 03:14.09 | Arrowmaster | we were doing heroics while the rest of the guild finished leveling |
| 03:14.17 | Amarande | Arrow: originally |
| 03:14.26 | Amarande | then something twisted that up later on in BC, around 2.3 or so |
| 03:14.28 | Arrowmaster | then they nerfed the fuck out of heroics |
| 03:14.42 | Arrowmaster | trust me they only got easier |
| 03:14.43 | A-KO | I don't complain not making friends in WoW though....orl eaving them or whatever. Shit happens, life happens. It is just a video game. I don't play WoW to make friends, but I've made them along the way. I've got friends that beg me all the time to transfer over to their guild and play with them. |
| 03:14.58 | Amarande | obviously, casters in particular couldn't even imagine going to Kara without at least some heroic gear, because you needed hitcap and questing/crafted gear wasn't going to give it to you |
| 03:15.11 | Amarande | but in order to go to heroics, the PUGs all wanted you to be in tier gear practically or you were too undergeared to go |
| 03:15.35 | Arrowmaster | umm no |
| 03:15.40 | Codayus | Amarande: No. |
| 03:15.41 | Arrowmaster | you didnt need hitcap for kara |
| 03:15.42 | Amarande | Arrow: maybe not on your server. :) |
| 03:15.47 | ZorbaBeta | lf1dps for heroic mechanar, MUST HAVE T6 |
| 03:15.48 | A-KO | Amarande: You can get everything in the game right now being a casual player. Do the argent tournament stuff, takes about 30-45 minutes if you speed run it. That gets you 200-300g/day. Pick up a profession to mine/herb while doing it, even more gold. Run heroics, they're about 30-45 minutes in length in Wrath. |
| 03:15.50 | A-KO | 1-2 hours per night |
| 03:15.52 | Arrowmaster | seriously fucking switch servers |
| 03:15.52 | A-KO | you're good to go |
| 03:15.59 | ZorbaBeta | seriously some of my friends have seen, regularly, demands of 3-4k DPS for Wrath heroics |
| 03:16.13 | Amarande | Zorba: I've seen stuff like that too |
| 03:16.16 | Amarande | especially TOC5 heroic |
| 03:16.17 | NightHawkTheSane | The greatest invention of all would be generating power based on how Amarande distorts reality. You could power the world for ages on two sentences. |
| 03:16.22 | A-KO | ZorbaBeta: Because people want to keep time to a minimum. Again, it's nothing to do with the gear, everything to do with the player's experience. |
| 03:16.23 | Codayus | Heh, as we talk, on my server someone is spamming trade: LFM 10 man ulduar 3k dps and must know fights. That's a pretty common sight on my server. On most, I should think. |
| 03:16.27 | A-KO | lol NightHawkTheSane |
| 03:16.31 | ZorbaBeta | TOC5h is at least a little bit tougher than other heroics |
| 03:16.47 | NightHawkTheSane | ZorbaBeta: really? I never once saw anyone ask for any amount of dps for a heroic |
| 03:16.47 | Codayus | Nobody ever gear checks for anything easier than ulduar. |
| 03:16.54 | A-KO | ZorbaBeta: sure, but not by much. Either way there's no excuse he should be in at least 213 epics if not by now by the end of the next month. |
| 03:16.56 | ZorbaBeta | a-ko, I am consistently amazed at how much you vacillate between "it's easy and anyone can do it" and "well yeah of course everyone wants people who are geared, ungeared people are scrubs" |
| 03:17.01 | ZorbaBeta | nighthawk, it depends vastly on the server |
| 03:17.04 | NightHawkTheSane | Hell, i only ever get asked if i'm def capped if im pugging them on my pally |
| 03:17.13 | ZorbaBeta | it's very rare on my main server, but on some servers it's near-unavoidable |
| 03:17.17 | A-KO | I don't ask people for their gear for heroics |
| 03:17.20 | Amarande | A-KO: given the luck I have in VOA25, I might not have to worry in a couple of weeks. But that would just be luck. |
| 03:17.21 | A-KO | in fact |
| 03:17.21 | NightHawkTheSane | well, sometimes I get asked if i'm def capped on my druid too |
| 03:17.24 | A-KO | I'm such a top healer |
| 03:17.26 | A-KO | I don't even bring a tank |
| 03:17.28 | A-KO | I just bring a plate DPS |
| 03:17.30 | NightHawkTheSane | at which point I mock them mercilessly |
| 03:17.34 | Codayus | Actually, I don't even see people gear checking for ulduar that often; mostly just ToC/Ony. |
| 03:17.41 | Amarande | The particular VOA25 raid I went to this week had two warlock drops and no ther locks in the raid. |
| 03:17.41 | A-KO | NightHawkTheSane: I've been running my heroics with all DPS and me |
| 03:17.52 | A-KO | it's too much time to find a tank |
| 03:17.59 | A-KO | and I snore thorugh most heroics with a geared tank |
| 03:18.02 | A-KO | so I Just don't take a tank now |
| 03:18.05 | A-KO | and heal the DPS :P |
| 03:18.07 | Amarande | Night: those people are going to HATE cata :) |
| 03:18.17 | A-KO | no they won't Amarande |
| 03:18.30 | NightHawkTheSane | A-KO: Yeah, on my healer I did guild pugs with tanks who needed gear badly, usually they were just plate wearers with whatever dps gear they had from a few raids |
| 03:18.31 | ZorbaBeta | nighthawk, the best is when someone invites you to a group, tells you you don't have enough HP, then kicks you |
| 03:18.40 | Amarande | A-KO: they won't understand the lack of def caps, if they don't understand it for druids now? |
| 03:18.42 | ZorbaBeta | meanwhile you're in your solo/DPS gear |
| 03:19.04 | ZorbaBeta | and yes we're going to see people ranting about def caps for months even in Cataclysm :P |
| 03:19.10 | NightHawkTheSane | ZorbaBeta: never had -that- happen. I've gotten questioned about it, but switch gear, make a snide remark, and watch them shut up |
| 03:19.13 | A-KO | NightHawkTheSane: eh these aren't even guild pugs, I usually pug 1 or 2 DPS in my 5 mans :P |
| 03:19.26 | A-KO | I'm just too geared out to give a shit about healing someone, obviously I don't take all mages |
| 03:19.30 | Thunder_Child | ~ping |
| 03:19.31 | purl | ~pong |
| 03:19.31 | A-KO | but 1 or 2 plate DPS |
| 03:19.39 | A-KO | easy enough |
| 03:19.39 | Amarande | I did once go to H-DTK and almost have the healer forget to switch to their healing set |
| 03:19.40 | NightHawkTheSane | A-KO: well, yeah, but I don't pug on my healer, only to help out guildies. I'd rather pug on my non-main toons :) |
| 03:19.57 | A-KO | NightHawkTheSane: eh, it's all about time management to me :P I just pug when I get the time. |
| 03:19.58 | NightHawkTheSane | half of which are tanks, so. :) |
| 03:20.01 | A-KO | ha |
| 03:20.06 | A-KO | my guild has a lot of tanks they're just never on |
| 03:20.11 | A-KO | or they save themselves with their clique |
| 03:20.31 | A-KO | NightHawkTheSane: I'm the weird type of player where I don't like not having the best I can personally get with my time. |
| 03:20.43 | NightHawkTheSane | Yeah, i totally understand that |
| 03:20.45 | A-KO | so I run pugs even if it's going to be excrutiatingly painful |
| 03:20.57 | A-KO | I don't have to have "the best", just the best of my ability. |
| 03:21.16 | NightHawkTheSane | for the longest time i could never get an alt above 40ish, because i focused on one character so much. Ive kinda changed, though |
| 03:21.44 | Amarande | I only have one alt who's out of the 20s on my main server |
| 03:21.52 | A-KO | yeah I had some time with that, but now I haven't leveled a single alt. There's just too much to do on my main now. It's like, I could level my alt, but then feel bad about not getting the champion seals/gold from the dailies on my main |
| 03:21.52 | Amarande | and that's because she was my main before I decided to start a warlock |
| 03:22.03 | NightHawkTheSane | *nod* |
| 03:22.14 | A-KO | curse blizzard for the tournament |
| 03:22.16 | NightHawkTheSane | When 3.1 hit i started doing that again |
| 03:22.16 | A-KO | :P |
| 03:22.19 | Amarande | A-KO: Yeah, that's been an issue for me as well |
| 03:22.21 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah ;) |
| 03:22.35 | A-KO | YOU NEED LIKE 1000 SEALS TO GET EVERYTHING AND YOU ONLY GET 10 PER DAY |
| 03:22.35 | Amarande | I've missed quite a lot of PUG opportunities by them occurring when I'm banking or leveling an alt |
| 03:22.38 | NightHawkTheSane | Course, I haven't played since 3.2 hit so meh. |
| 03:23.05 | A-KO | I didn't log into WoW at all today though |
| 03:23.09 | A-KO | so it's all good :P |
| 03:23.10 | A-KO | I'm out |
| 03:23.10 | Amarande | In fact, Murphy's Law seems to guarantee that if you DO go to level an alt, that's when the groups wanting more will come out in force LOL |
| 03:23.16 | NightHawkTheSane | later :) |
| 03:23.18 | Amarande | Night |
| 03:23.44 | Amarande | And as DPS, I tend not to try to get into those groups when perhaps I should |
| 03:23.55 | Amarande | mainly because I'm pretty convinced they'll fill in the time it takes to switch characters |
| 03:24.07 | Amarande | especially if the character I'm on right now is not at a rest area |
| 03:24.16 | Amarande | especially if Alvaerin is also in Dalaran at the time :) |
| 03:24.41 | ZorbaBeta | I'm leveling a rogue pretty solely for The Insane |
| 03:24.53 | Amarande | Worst case is character not in rest area with hearth on CD, and Alvaerin logged out in Dal. |
| 03:25.16 | Amarande | That could take a minute or more to switch, with the 20 second logout delay and probably 30-60 to load in Dal |
| 03:25.46 | Amarande | Seeing as my experience has been that most 5-mans LFM DPS fill within ten to twenty seconds ... yeah. |
| 03:26.18 | NightHawkTheSane | watches more M.A.S.H |
| 03:26.30 | Amarande | I should have mained a healer. :| |
| 03:26.53 | Amarande | You don't know how often when I get into this train of thought that I start wishing I had never tried a warlock in the first place, and had solely played my priest. :) |
| 03:27.47 | Amarande | Not that I can really blame myself. It was just too fun to level a warlock, especially aff in the BC days. And being that I'd never had a max level character before at the time, I had no idea what the grouping environment was going to be like at max. |
| 03:28.05 | Amarande | But I got hooked on my warlock, and pretty much have to live with it. |
| 03:28.39 | Fisker | Amarande |
| 03:28.41 | Fisker | you |
| 03:29.01 | Amarande | I what? |
| 03:29.27 | Fisker | yes you |
| 03:29.30 | Fisker | you you you |
| 03:29.41 | Amarande | ?? |
| 03:30.05 | Fisker | you too |
| 03:34.13 | Fisker | stalks Amarande |
| 03:34.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (n=callahan@74-132-200-5.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 03:40.29 | *** join/#wowuidev jpmorgan (n=jpmorgan@67.183.221.120) |
| 03:56.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Sesshu| (n=Sesshu@ip-72-17.travedsl.de) |
| 04:00.53 | Shirik | Fisker |
| 04:01.06 | Fisker | i got nothing to say to you |
| 04:01.24 | Shirik | ããªãã¯æ¥æ¬èªãããã¾ãããï¼ |
| 04:01.29 | Fisker | no |
| 04:02.19 | Fisker | goodbye Shirik |
| 04:02.31 | Shirik | ããããªãã |
| 04:02.42 | Fisker | i want to kill you |
| 04:03.08 | Shirik | :( |
| 04:03.26 | Shirik | ããã§ã :( |
| 04:04.28 | Shirik | why fisker |
| 04:04.34 | Shirik | we can be friends |
| 04:05.56 | Thunder_Child | Shirik, Ki desu desu? |
| 04:08.00 | Shirik | ? |
| 04:08.21 | Shirik | ^ suki desu |
| 04:10.21 | robotusch | Fisker |
| 04:10.30 | robotusch | fisker Fisker |
| 04:14.36 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR (i=1872fcf3@gateway/web/freenode/x-dxbukmkczfyhfcfh) |
| 04:14.45 | DWSR | hey all, suggestions on a tablet PC? |
| 04:14.45 | Fisker | Shirik my friend |
| 04:14.53 | Shirik | Fisker, mon ami |
| 04:15.08 | Shirik | Comment ça va? |
| 04:15.26 | Fisker | idk |
| 04:15.28 | Fisker | btw Shirik |
| 04:15.34 | Fisker | our nazis are taking the moral high road |
| 04:15.41 | Fisker | They don't want no pedophiles in their club! |
| 04:16.22 | Thunder_Child | DWSR, i would suggest a convertible before a tablet |
| 04:16.56 | DWSR | Thunder_Child: I've had a tablet, and I can't ever say I'm going back. |
| 04:17.02 | DWSR | To having a conventional laptop |
| 04:17.37 | Amarande | bah, wow froze |
| 04:17.49 | Amarande | at least that raid wasn't going anywhere either |
| 04:17.52 | Thunder_Child | DWSR, then might i suggest http://www.motioncomputing.com/products/tablet_pc_le17.asp |
| 04:18.00 | Amarande | voa10, group wasn't finished building yet and there was like 3:38 left till wg |
| 04:18.43 | Fisker | durr |
| 04:18.50 | Fisker | you can't do anything 15 minutes before the battle |
| 04:19.21 | Amarande | I'm actually surprised that the PvP-based access model of VOA is working out well for WoW |
| 04:19.44 | Amarande | They used to have that model for accessing Underworld and Fissure in GW, and it generally resulted in nothing but QQ by most of the players |
| 04:19.55 | Fisker | durr |
| 04:19.58 | Amarande | to the point where ArenaNet eventually dropped the PvP based model |
| 04:19.59 | Fisker | They built it to change sides |
| 04:20.04 | Fisker | which is a major fail in my book |
| 04:20.25 | Amarande | Fisker: the important thing is they built it to sides you actually have a choice of which one you made your character on, I think is how it worked out though :) |
| 04:20.37 | Amarande | in GW, it failed utterly because your side was based on what continent you live in |
| 04:20.51 | Amarande | and Europe always, ALWAYS had way better PvP players than the US |
| 04:21.07 | Amarande | so basically, if you were American, you pretty much had to do UW and Fissure at stupidly wee hours of the morning |
| 04:21.35 | Fisker | Sure |
| 04:21.38 | Fisker | But it's still fail |
| 04:21.41 | Amarande | while it was daytime in EU, because once the EU folks got home from work/school you lost favor for sure |
| 04:21.48 | Fisker | They should just make it change factions |
| 04:21.56 | Fisker | and then make the zone about the pvp instead |
| 04:21.57 | Amarande | meh |
| 04:21.59 | Amarande | actually come to think of it |
| 04:22.02 | Amarande | VOA being like that is a good thing |
| 04:22.02 | Fisker | instead of zerg teh fortress |
| 04:22.17 | Amarande | it provides one raid instance that is -designed- for PUGs, basically |
| 04:22.25 | Arrowmaster | when i played GW it was the asians that had favor all the time |
| 04:22.36 | Amarande | since after all you can't really build a guild around an instance that you don't know when you'll have access to :) |
| 04:23.35 | Amarande | heh, I'd like to see a guild try that just so they can get lulz at them on the forums |
| 04:23.44 | Amarande | "we are a guild who raids Vault of Archavon every (day) at (time)" |
| 04:23.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (n=chatzill@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 04:23.56 | Amarande | preferably, a day and time when we know the other faction always has WG :) |
| 04:24.20 | Amarande | actually, you know |
| 04:24.29 | Amarande | why do we take such pleasure in laughing at fail, anyway? |
| 04:24.34 | DWSR | Thunder_Child: |
| 04:24.43 | Amarande | what *is* it about fail that amuses people? |
| 04:25.10 | DWSR | Thunder_Child: When you said convertible I thought you meant like convertible as in a car, making a point of how impractical/expensive tablets were. |
| 04:25.16 | DWSR | Thunder_Child: But yes, I would prefer a convertible. |
| 04:25.42 | Thunder_Child | DWSR, >.< |
| 04:25.53 | DWSR | sorry. :( |
| 04:26.11 | Shirik | When I think about rain, I think about singing. When I think about singing, it's a heavenly tune. When I think about heaven, I think about angels. When I think about angels, I think about you. |
| 04:26.24 | Thunder_Child | gags |
| 04:27.38 | Fisker | deepthroats |
| 04:29.24 | Cairenn | wonders who Shirik's interested in |
| 04:29.34 | Shirik | ? |
| 04:29.55 | Cairenn | the little "poem" above ;) |
| 04:30.02 | Amarande | Evening Cairenn :) |
| 04:30.06 | Cairenn | hi Amarande :) |
| 04:30.11 | Amarande | How goes? |
| 04:30.27 | Cairenn | pretty well, you? |
| 04:30.32 | Amarande | pretty good :) |
| 04:30.37 | Fisker | comes barging in |
| 04:30.46 | Amarande | other than still trying to decide between better progression prospects or sticking with my buddies heh |
| 04:31.03 | Cairenn | buddies, imo |
| 04:31.09 | Amarande | yeah, I think so too :) |
| 04:31.34 | Cairenn | the game is just a game, friends are more |
| 04:32.03 | Fisker | goodbye cruel #wowuidev |
| 04:32.22 | Cairenn | awww, we losing you Fisker? |
| 04:32.27 | Fisker | sure |
| 04:32.30 | Amarande | I could abandon my buddies, get full T9 and where would I be? I'd have shinies and miss my friends |
| 04:32.31 | Fisker | until i get back home |
| 04:33.05 | Amarande | I left them once, back in BC to try to get better progression prospects ... I never even saw any T4 and ended up coming back 'home' so to speak to Turalyon |
| 04:33.20 | Cairenn | nod |
| 04:34.00 | Amarande | Now it's a matter that I could potentially have full T9 as early as tomorrow, depending on luck :) |
| 04:34.01 | Amarande | well, it would take a good bit of luck, but it actually is within the realm of possibility |
| 04:34.33 | Amarande | and I *have* been pretty lucky with drops on the instances I go to |
| 04:34.52 | Amarande | btw, curious: why doesn't the Grand Black War Mammoth count for the Black War Mammoth achievement? :S |
| 04:35.08 | Shirik | Cairenn, it's a song :P |
| 04:35.35 | Amarande | and really, I think there's only one main reason I get my knickers in a knot about progression in WoW in particular |
| 04:35.53 | Amarande | most RPGs I play, I actually take a distinctly slow, laidback approach to progression in |
| 04:35.58 | Arrowmaster | arent there achievements for both black war mammoths? |
| 04:36.00 | Amarande | take my time to gather just the right skills and gear for each boss, etc. |
| 04:36.12 | Amarande | Arrow: not for the Grand as far as I know ... I got one in VOA 25 last night and didn't get an ach |
| 04:36.22 | Arrowmaster | there used to be |
| 04:36.38 | Amarande | maybe they took it out once there were three chances to get it per run |
| 04:36.44 | Amarande | especially since it seems to drop not too uncommonly |
| 04:36.52 | Amarande | last night it actually dropped from both Koralon and Emalon |
| 04:37.01 | Arrowmaster | it used to be part of the wintergrasp meta |
| 04:37.14 | tem | lol that sucks |
| 04:37.26 | Amarande | anyway, I think what bothers me about taking that same slow, laidback approach to progression in WoW is pretty simple |
| 04:37.30 | tem | I've only seen it drop once in months of doing voa twice a week |
| 04:37.32 | Amarande | expansion packs. content marches on. |
| 04:37.38 | Amarande | by the time you've made a little bit of progress it's all wiped out. |
| 04:38.00 | Amarande | most RPGs are pretty static, so you can take your time |
| 04:38.53 | Amarande | and really it seems to be a negative feeling that no one ever fully escapes, viz. how even a lot of hardcore raiders felt about the last raids added to each previous stage of WoW |
| 04:39.28 | Amarande | a lot of people never went to Naxx60 or even AQ40 out of the disappointing feeling of knowing that BC was going to do a gear reset ... a lot of people never even aspired towards Sunwell out of knowing that it wasn't going to matter either after WotLK |
| 04:40.04 | Amarande | I wonder if there will be similar apathy towards Icecrown |
| 04:40.25 | Amarande | redoubled by the people who want to get old world stuff done before Cata destroys it all |
| 04:41.13 | Amarande | granted, Arthas is iconic ... but Icecrown's days are numbered from the very moment it hits, because Blizzard needs to keep it coming in order to keep subscribers |
| 04:42.32 | tem | Way to go, Bibi |
| 04:42.37 | Fisker | slaps tem around a bit with a large trout |
| 04:42.43 | tem | in one post you successfully fucked my money making |
| 04:42.48 | Amarande | tem: ? |
| 04:42.52 | tem | Cobalt ore has risen to 30g per stack on my server |
| 04:43.00 | tem | as a result of the front page of mmo-champion |
| 04:43.09 | Amarande | what's so special about cobalt now? |
| 04:43.26 | tem | it was free money for me before he went and told everyone about it |
| 04:43.39 | Amarande | tem, I'm sure you'd have been undercut eventually anyway |
| 04:43.46 | Amarande | remember, I'm sure someone on your server runs auctioneer. :D |
| 04:44.21 | tem | Amarande, buy cobalt ore at 1g each |
| 04:44.23 | jpmorgan | theres always hello kitty island adventure for embittered raiders |
| 04:44.25 | tem | make cobalt shield |
| 04:44.35 | Amarande | heck, actually you can probably blame Auctioneer for ruining the moneymaking opportunities on whatever servers :) |
| 04:44.37 | tem | vendor it for 1g36s/per cobalt |
| 04:44.55 | Amarande | tem, I'm sure it would have been nerfed eventually anyway |
| 04:45.05 | Amarande | didn't they nerf a couple of BS recipes previously because they discovered they were endless money trains like that? |
| 04:45.07 | tem | the only way that can get ruined is people selling cobalt for more than 1g36 each |
| 04:45.07 | jpmorgan | auctioneer is a money making opportunity |
| 04:45.18 | tem | and now they are |
| 04:45.23 | Fisker | goodbye cruel Shirik |
| 04:45.26 | Fisker | also cruel you tem |
| 04:45.36 | Amarande | jpmorgan: auctioneer tends to keep prices within a fairly narrow band for items that aren't actually rare |
| 04:45.53 | Amarande | well, usually |
| 04:45.58 | jpmorgan | auctioneer is the wd40 of the wow economy |
| 04:46.03 | Amarande | sometimes it encourages you to post seven woll bandages for 900g |
| 04:46.12 | Arrowmaster | one of my guildmates did that in TBC with jewelcrafting and enchanting |
| 04:46.40 | Arrowmaster | buy cheap ore and make blue rings, then disenchant them for shards |
| 04:47.19 | Amarande | yeah, but that's player driven economy |
| 04:47.29 | Arrowmaster | those silly little combos can make you insanely rich just for having the right professions and knowing some info |
| 04:47.40 | Amarande | you can't even vendor shards, so that's only as long as the market is willing to just pay for the shards and doesn't discover that they can just buy cheap ore and DE blue rings themselves |
| 04:47.46 | Amarande | at which point the shards go down down down |
| 04:47.58 | Amarande | tem's moneymaking trick was a vendor thing |
| 04:48.03 | Arrowmaster | shards are pure money though, they have no AH deposit so they are the perfect thing to AH |
| 04:48.09 | Amarande | and I suspect if it had kept up long enough, Blizzard would quite possibly have stepped in |
| 04:48.22 | tem | not really |
| 04:48.34 | Amarande | like I said, ISTR a couple of BS recipes that had their mats upped after they realized that they were being totally exploited economically |
| 04:48.51 | Arrowmaster | yeah my guild mate was making far more profit from investent than tem was |
| 04:49.26 | Amarande | yeah, but you still can't sell them for more than the stuff that DE's into them does |
| 04:49.42 | Amarande | basically, mats and product will tend to always balance out over time |
| 04:49.54 | Amarande | which sucks for crafting professions, because for the most part you don't make money off them in the end outside of tips |
| 04:50.18 | Amarande | if the mats cost less than the product can be sold for, then everyone will buy up all the mats and make the product then sell |
| 04:50.31 | Amarande | this will continue until either the mats go up in price or the glut of the product causes it to lose value |
| 04:51.16 | Amarande | pretty sure the only things not really affected by this are rare recipes that not just every joe schmoe can have access to |
| 04:51.21 | Amarande | like the crusader orb patterns |
| 04:53.21 | tem | I've made almost 1k by combining people mats of crusader orb patterns |
| 04:53.53 | Shirik | Cairenn |
| 04:53.57 | Shirik | it was about you |
| 04:53.59 | Cairenn | Shirik |
| 04:54.00 | Shirik | does that make you feel better :3 |
| 04:54.01 | Cairenn | awww |
| 04:54.03 | Cairenn | hehehe |
| 04:54.08 | Cairenn | I was just having fun teasing you :) |
| 04:54.12 | Cairenn | huggles the Shirik |
| 04:56.12 | Amarande | say, did Runic Orbs ever really catch on? |
| 04:56.21 | Amarande | or did folks mostly go straight from FOs to COs? |
| 04:56.50 | Amarande | (not that I can really tell myself, since as a JC, I didn't get anything that uses the runic *or* the crusader orbs heh) |
| 05:00.39 | tem | Runed orbs were huge when 3.1 first came out |
| 05:01.11 | NightHawkTheSane | crazy how that works. |
| 05:01.31 | tem | yeah go figure |
| 05:01.41 | Amarande | ahh ... yeah, I missed 3.1, so I wasn't really sure :) |
| 05:02.00 | Amarande | and like I said, my main is a JC, and of the three Orb types we can still only use the Frozen |
| 05:02.08 | Amarande | we don't have any 226 crafties either :| |
| 05:21.21 | Shirik | nevcairiel: ping |
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| 05:27.17 | Shirik | Fisker |
| 05:27.20 | Shirik | bye bye, beautiful |
| 05:27.51 | Thunder_Child | Shirik, where in florida do you teach? |
| 05:28.06 | Shirik | http://db.erau.edu/ |
| 05:29.20 | Shirik | holy crap |
| 05:29.28 | Shirik | one of my robots is in the front page video |
| 05:29.48 | Shirik | ew |
| 05:29.50 | Shirik | Lisa Davids |
| 05:30.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 05:31.27 | Shirik | hey ecocar is in that video too |
| 05:31.27 | Shirik | I need to pay more attention to our site :/ |
| 05:33.15 | Amarande | wow, I've seen QQ, and I've seen QQ, but I've never seen semi-racist QQ before |
| 05:34.33 | Amarande | the sad thing is that despite being possibly seen as racist, I'm not sure they entirely don't have a point |
| 05:34.39 | Thunder_Child | huh....there is a music video that used HL2 and isnt a remix |
| 05:35.15 | Amarande | specifically: guy is complaining about "We Had It All Along" because his battlegroup contains the Latin American servers, which makes the ironclad communication needed for this difficult achievement even more difficult |
| 05:36.00 | Amarande | tries to remember if Europe has any similar issues with language barriers within a battlegroup, or if that is solely an issue suffered by NA players in the 1 or 2 BGs with the LA servers |
| 05:36.04 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: that white thing with the tower on it driving through the grass? |
| 05:36.42 | Amarande | are EU battlegroups kept together within a given language group, or are they spread out? I've never played EU |
| 05:36.54 | Shirik | no Arrowmaster, it's kinda hard to see |
| 05:37.22 | Amarande | WHIAA seems to be the most WHINE achievement on the achievement board, apparently |
| 05:37.57 | Amarande | surprisingly, even brewfest doesn't have as much QQ |
| 05:38.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 05:38.23 | Amarande | (Myself, I still can't get into Arathi Basin enough to even think of attempting that one.) |
| 05:38.40 | Amarande | when I do BGs, it's basically always AV or EOTS with the occasional SOTA or WSG |
| 05:38.49 | Amarande | I just *don't* seem to be able to really get into AB |
| 05:38.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (n=Srosh@c222114.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 05:39.47 | Amarande | Adys: do you think U.S. players are justified in QQing about the tougher battleground achievements when their battlegroup contains the Latin America servers? |
| 05:40.25 | Arrowmaster | they are on the same battle groups? |
| 05:40.41 | Adys | i dont know and i dont give a fucking shit |
| 05:40.52 | Amarande | Arrow: apparently |
| 05:40.57 | Amarande | I think the Oceanic servers are too |
| 05:41.13 | Amarande | because Latin America/Oceanic/US are all the same region as far as subscriptions go ... *checks BGs* |
| 05:42.00 | Amarande | Arrow: Yup. |
| 05:42.28 | Amarande | The Latin American servers are all on Vindication, along with 16 English speaking American servers |
| 05:42.36 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (i=spode@213-21-88-111.bon.t3.se) |
| 05:42.49 | Amarande | and Bloodlust and Vengeance both contain both Oceanic and U.S. servers |
| 05:43.17 | Amarande | I'd imagine all 3 such battlegroups would have particular issues with the harder, more coordination intensive BG achievements, such as the ones requiring you to win by ten |
| 05:43.34 | Amarande | (I know AB has We Had It All Along, I could have sworn EOTS has one too but I can't remember its name) |
| 05:44.04 | Arrowmaster | oh really, im on vindication and i never noticed they put the latin american servers on it, but then again i only really played up until janurary |
| 05:44.16 | Amarande | Vindication has the language barrier, and Bloodlust/Vengeance both have the legendary Oceanic lag to deal with |
| 05:45.23 | Amarande | A guy on Burning Blade (Vindication) is complaining on the boards "grats on not having the latin servers in your battlegroup where half the people cant even understand what you're saying." |
| 05:46.02 | Amarande | I'm not replying. I'm not sure whether he should be called racist for the obvious dig at Hispanics, or whether his concern should be considered as genuine, seeing as the achievement discussed really does need that close communication within the winning side to not need stupid amounts of luck |
| 05:47.09 | Amarande | (Pretty much, to get WHIAA, you need to either be really really lucky, or plan the entire course of battle around the rates at which points are awarded) |
| 05:47.45 | Arrowmaster | if you try to plan it you wont get it |
| 05:47.52 | Amarande | (And even then you still need to be lucky, because apparently people are reporting almost having it and then facedesking when they win 1600-1580 instead because the scoring is out of sync and they get awarded their last 10 a split second before the losers would have got theirs) |
| 05:47.56 | Arrowmaster | you need 100 wins for an achivement so just play until you get it |
| 05:48.09 | Amarande | Arrow: apparently people are playing 300, 400 ABs and still not getting it |
| 05:48.25 | Amarande | there's at least one guy who AFK's in AB now while waiting for it to come, and doesn't even care because he's already capped on honor and AB tokens |
| 05:48.40 | Amarande | and -still doesn't have it- |
| 05:49.18 | Amarande | Like I said, I never got that much into AB myself. |
| 05:50.11 | Amarande | Hmm, guess there isn't a similar achievement for EOTS ... I could have sworn there was one |
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| 06:16.47 | Thunder_Child | ok, chris rock needs to stay away from music |
| 06:17.34 | krka | i stopped reading after away |
| 06:18.08 | Thunder_Child | cant argue with you there |
| 06:19.35 | tem | When they do multiple language BS, Arrowmaster, they only put people of the same language on the same team |
| 06:19.45 | tem | they won't mix languages within the same faction |
| 06:19.58 | tem | you may be fighting against a team with a different language, though |
| 06:20.17 | Arrowmaster | so the people amarande was quoting from the forums were full of shit |
| 06:20.46 | NightHawkTheSane | people, full of shit? NO WAI' |
| 06:21.26 | tem | Arrowmaster, that's my understanding, yes |
| 06:21.49 | tem | that's what I read when they were doing cross-language BGs in europe, anyway |
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| 06:22.19 | Thunder_Child | now now NightHawkTheSane, no need to state the obvious |
| 06:22.31 | Thunder_Child | granted, it *is* fun |
| 06:22.33 | NightHawkTheSane | but i do it so well |
| 06:27.23 | Shirik | NightHawkTheSane |
| 06:28.01 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik |
| 06:28.46 | Shirik | Thunder_Child |
| 06:30.48 | Thunder_Child | yes Shirik? |
| 06:30.54 | Shirik | nothing |
| 06:30.57 | Shirik | I'm just bored |
| 06:31.01 | Shirik | and Adys won't talk to me |
| 06:31.11 | Adys | yeha |
| 06:31.16 | Adys | i cant login to kde |
| 06:31.22 | Adys | nor gnome for that matter |
| 06:31.46 | Shirik | peut-être si je parle en français |
| 06:31.54 | Thunder_Child | uh Shirik, why would you *want* Adys's to talk to you? |
| 06:32.00 | Adys | Adys* |
| 06:32.02 | Thunder_Child | Adys* |
| 06:32.10 | Shirik | that's probably spelled wrong |
| 06:32.12 | Shirik | but I tried :( |
| 06:32.58 | Adys | its not |
| 06:33.04 | Shirik | how close was I? |
| 06:33.09 | Shirik | I couldn't remember how to spell "maybe" |
| 06:33.13 | Shirik | no accent? |
| 06:33.15 | Adys | it was correct |
| 06:33.17 | Adys | yeah there is |
| 06:33.18 | Shirik | really? |
| 06:33.21 | Adys | yes |
| 06:33.21 | Shirik | what did I miss then? |
| 06:33.26 | Adys | my butt |
| 06:33.28 | Shirik | :( |
| 06:33.35 | Shirik | oh it's not spelled wrong |
| 06:33.40 | Shirik | yay <3 |
| 06:33.56 | Adys | now help me fix this |
| 06:33.58 | Shirik | see Adys |
| 06:34.01 | Adys | Im gonna have to reinstall :( |
| 06:34.09 | Shirik | I can relate to your culture |
| 06:34.12 | Shirik | now give me your syrup |
| 06:34.20 | Adys | but you cant relate to my butt |
| 06:34.27 | Shirik | what problem? |
| 06:34.34 | Adys | i cant login to kde |
| 06:34.40 | Adys | kdm and gdm both hang |
| 06:34.43 | Adys | i get a blackscreen |
| 06:34.55 | Shirik | nice |
| 06:34.58 | ScytheBlade1 | You're on ubuntu, right? |
| 06:35.01 | Adys | karmic |
| 06:35.02 | Shirik | can you get into xserver? |
| 06:35.08 | ScytheBlade1 | glhf then |
| 06:35.12 | Shirik | wtf is karmic |
| 06:35.14 | ScytheBlade1 | Check your Xorg.0.log |
| 06:35.15 | Adys | well no |
| 06:35.20 | Adys | i did, nothing |
| 06:35.20 | ScytheBlade1 | sleeps |
| 06:35.21 | Shirik | get gentoo |
| 06:35.24 | Adys | http://dpaste.com/99716/ |
| 06:35.38 | Thunder_Child | get FC |
| 06:35.39 | Adys | Shirik: I would but I have a raid next week |
| 06:35.42 | NightHawkTheSane | karmic is one of the in development ubuntu releases the next one iirc? |
| 06:35.48 | Adys | yes night |
| 06:36.03 | NightHawkTheSane | add punctuation to that sentance as you like |
| 06:36.09 | Shirik | Adys: Needs more errors |
| 06:38.43 | Arrowmaster | you have both gdm and kdm installed and are switching between them? |
| 06:38.54 | Shirik | and I don't know why people make such a big deal out of gentoo being complicated |
| 06:39.01 | Shirik | I've never spent more than a day getting it set up |
| 06:39.46 | Adys | it doesnt have apt |
| 06:39.48 | Adys | = it sucks |
| 06:39.49 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: because people fuck up compile options that they have no reason to be messing with instead of just trusting people that have been creating distros for longer than they have been using linux |
| 06:40.07 | Shirik | why is apt better than portage? |
| 06:41.02 | Arrowmaster | "Debian faster than Gentoo?" http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/2003/44/ |
| 06:41.44 | nevcairiel | if you use -O3, its your own fault anyway =p |
| 06:42.27 | krka | apt is made of pure win |
| 06:42.40 | Adys | yeah apt just wins |
| 06:42.58 | Adys | portage is terrible for what ive seen of it and i wouldnt touch it with bibi's 10 foot pole |
| 06:43.19 | nevcairiel | then you've never really used it |
| 06:43.31 | krka | i haven't actually used portage, but i have used apt for a long time and i love it |
| 06:44.00 | Adys | sudo apt-get purge kde*; sudo aptitude install kubuntu-desktop --without-recommends; sudo reboot |
| 06:44.00 | Arrowmaster | i also like binary packages because it means i dont need to install all the damn libraries required to compile something, just the libraries needed to use it |
| 06:44.01 | Adys | and |
| 06:44.03 | Adys | everything works |
| 06:44.20 | nevcairiel | you need to reboot on ubuntu? man fail distro :P |
| 06:44.31 | Arrowmaster | lol seriously |
| 06:44.41 | NightHawkTheSane | you do? no one told me.. |
| 06:44.52 | nevcairiel | Arrowmaster, there usually are only very few build-deps that are not runtime deps |
| 06:44.54 | krka | only when installing a new kernel :P |
| 06:45.12 | Adys | nevcairiel: i didnt |
| 06:45.24 | Adys | I did because Im too lazy to time some init.d commands |
| 06:45.32 | Adys | IM ON FUCKERS SEE YA |
| 06:45.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 06:46.02 | Adys | did you miss me |
| 06:48.12 | Torhal | krka: New kernel or new nVidia kernel module. |
| 06:49.49 | krka | hm, right. i thought you could just reload the kernel module |
| 06:52.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 06:52.37 | Shirik | HI ADYS |
| 06:52.41 | Shirik | I MISSED YOU |
| 06:53.00 | Adys | I missed me too |
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| 07:07.32 | Shirik | ~ping |
| 07:07.33 | purl | ~pong |
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| 07:51.52 | Arrowmaster | http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/ukfs_news/hi/newsid_8270000/newsid_8279200/8279276.stm |
| 07:52.07 | Arrowmaster | there are so many things wrong about that |
| 07:52.38 | Arrowmaster | not that it exists, but that theres a reason for it to exist |
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| 08:12.23 | ZorbaBeta | goddammit blizzard why do you restrict entering raids to people who are in raids |
| 08:12.23 | ZorbaBeta | it is stupid |
| 08:12.23 | ZorbaBeta | please remove this restriction |
| 08:12.23 | ZorbaBeta | thanks, |
| 08:12.24 | ZorbaBeta | zorba |
| 08:13.56 | tekkub | because they don't want people bumbling in as a party and not getting hit with the raid penalty on EXP |
| 08:13.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (n=chatzill@62.242.38.50) |
| 08:14.15 | tekkub | imagine a few 80's running a 60 through MC for free loot AND exp |
| 08:14.52 | theorbtwo | Hm, won't they just be grey mobs anyway? |
| 08:15.02 | tekkub | not to the 60 |
| 08:15.29 | ZorbaBeta | tekkub, so make the "raid penalty" also hit anyone in a "raid instance" |
| 08:15.34 | nevcairiel | afaik, there is no raid penality, its just based on the number of people in the raid, it jumps quite a lot when you go over 5 people |
| 08:15.42 | tekkub | I've gone in MC at 58... the penalty cancels out rest exp... if you have no rest, it should cancel out exp completely I think |
| 08:15.58 | ZorbaBeta | exp calculations are invariably multiplicative |
| 08:16.07 | tekkub | nevcairiel: I went in MC like a week ago |
| 08:16.12 | tekkub | it was 6 people |
| 08:16.17 | ZorbaBeta | alright with one exception which is RAF+rested, which is, I think, additive |
| 08:16.20 | nevcairiel | thats over 5, raid penality :P |
| 08:16.22 | tekkub | and the penalty EXACTLY cancelled out rest |
| 08:16.24 | nevcairiel | try it with <=5 |
| 08:17.51 | Arrowmaster | we had somebody levelup in mc in the past |
| 08:18.00 | ZorbaBeta | in any case, I think it's kind of silly that I'm now on my sixth trial account created solely for the purpose of getting me into raids. |
| 08:18.13 | Arrowmaster | it was somebodys friends warlock, we were short on warlocks for garr |
| 08:18.30 | nevcairiel | you need warlocks for garr? |
| 08:18.38 | tekkub | back in the day you did |
| 08:18.38 | Arrowmaster | we did at 60 |
| 08:18.58 | Arrowmaster | they yelled at me on garr all the time |
| 08:19.06 | tekkub | ZorbaBeta: uhm, cry more? :P it's a trial account it's hard for you to bitch about it ya know |
| 08:19.08 | Arrowmaster | i used to hide mine |
| 08:19.19 | tekkub | just go code in AV |
| 08:19.22 | Arrowmaster | and make them go look for it |
| 08:19.35 | Arrowmaster | that or they just wait 30 seconds for it to come and try and kill me |
| 08:20.00 | ZorbaBeta | tekkub, it's just silly that I have to do it |
| 08:20.18 | tekkub | ZorbaBeta: you're an extremely edge case |
| 08:20.28 | tekkub | real players don't have an issue with it |
| 08:20.41 | ZorbaBeta | not that much of an edge case, some of friends farm old raids for mounts or rep also |
| 08:20.42 | nevcairiel | just get some friend to put one of his alts in a raid with you, and you can have a raid for ever |
| 08:20.47 | ZorbaBeta | or for Loremaster |
| 08:20.54 | ZorbaBeta | nev, works great until I need to do a quest outside of a raid |
| 08:21.06 | ZorbaBeta | and then I have to drop the raid :P |
| 08:21.09 | nevcairiel | cant have everything now, can you |
| 08:21.14 | Arrowmaster | i hid my add in the tunnel to geddon before, there was much cursing when the tank went to get it and found a surger |
| 08:21.19 | ZorbaBeta | sure I could, Blizzard could make it so you can just walk into raids |
| 08:21.25 | ZorbaBeta | problem solved |
| 08:21.27 | nevcairiel | why would they? |
| 08:21.46 | ZorbaBeta | to keep their player database from cluttering up with useless trial accounts created solely by me and a bunch of my friends to get us into raids |
| 08:22.00 | ZorbaBeta | and to keep from being annoying to the people who are trying to farm old content |
| 08:22.06 | nevcairiel | maybe they should rather ban you for abusing the trials =) |
| 08:22.14 | tekkub | people who are goin gon raids don't care |
| 08:22.21 | tekkub | they set it to raid and they're done |
| 08:22.28 | ZorbaBeta | I checked, there doesn't seem to be any language mentioning that trial accounts are a problem ;) |
| 08:22.33 | ZorbaBeta | tekkub, you are misunderstanding, I mean old lv60 raids |
| 08:22.45 | tekkub | no, I'm not misunderstanding |
| 08:22.52 | tekkub | I've been DOING old raids |
| 08:22.55 | ZorbaBeta | how do you "set it to raid" if you're a single player? |
| 08:23.14 | nevcairiel | I just get some alt of a friend, invite it, run all raids for a day, and be done for a week |
| 08:23.15 | tekkub | and trust me, people don't care about making a raid into an ACTUAL raid... it's kinda expected game mechanics |
| 08:23.17 | nevcairiel | its not a big problem <.< |
| 08:23.30 | tekkub | what nev said |
| 08:23.44 | ZorbaBeta | *shrug* it's not a big problem, I just wish they'd fix it. |
| 08:23.47 | tekkub | peopel that would farm like that used to get friends to group all the time to reset instances |
| 08:23.50 | ZorbaBeta | it's a mild and constant annoyance, to me and some other people |
| 08:23.53 | nevcairiel | Its not a problem to fix :P |
| 08:24.04 | ZorbaBeta | yes it is, it is just perhaps not a high-priority one :P |
| 08:24.16 | tekkub | no, you're just and EDGE CASE |
| 08:24.21 | ZorbaBeta | you guys really seem to have issues with "this is a problem, but it probably doesn't need to be fixed instantly, but it's still a problem" :P |
| 08:24.31 | nevcairiel | Raids are not designed for solo content, if you want to go in there alone, at least pretend to be a raid :p |
| 08:24.39 | nevcairiel | Its a design decision |
| 08:24.42 | nevcairiel | not a problem |
| 08:24.45 | tekkub | ^ |
| 08:24.54 | ZorbaBeta | it's a minor quality-of-life issue, in the same way that a button that you hit to click every 5 minutes to avoid logging out would be an issue |
| 08:25.03 | tekkub | if you think it's a problem, you must be doing it wrong :) |
| 08:25.05 | ZorbaBeta | it's not a *bug*, it's a *design decision*! it would still be stupid of course |
| 08:25.15 | ZorbaBeta | c'mon, this is WoW. are you seriously claiming that WoW has never had major design errors? |
| 08:25.26 | ZorbaBeta | that every single problem in the history of WoW has been caused by people doing it wrong? |
| 08:25.34 | tekkub | we're claiming that is not major |
| 08:25.38 | tekkub | or really an error |
| 08:25.44 | ZorbaBeta | I'm not arguing that it's a minor issue |
| 08:25.52 | ZorbaBeta | you seem to be claiming that it's a good thing, based solely on the fact that it exists |
| 08:26.06 | tekkub | I'm not saying it's good or bad |
| 08:26.10 | ZorbaBeta | I say it should be fixed. you say that blizzard's design team is perfect. :P |
| 08:26.11 | tekkub | I'm saying it's not a problem |
| 08:26.42 | tekkub | and seriously |
| 08:26.50 | tekkub | blizzards' designs perfect? |
| 08:26.57 | ZorbaBeta | *shrug* I disagree. Anything forcing users to do repetitive and unintended tasks is a problem. You can't honestly claim Blizzard intended for people to make trial accounts to get into raids solo. |
| 08:27.00 | tekkub | you think that ANYONE in this channel thinks that? |
| 08:27.07 | tekkub | we're the fuckers that FIX THEIR SHIT |
| 08:27.28 | nevcairiel | I have friends, i wouldn't create a freaking trial account .P |
| 08:27.45 | ZorbaBeta | no, I don't, which is why I find it so incomprehensible that you seem to think this isn't at least a minor design issue |
| 08:27.59 | tekkub | I dn't |
| 08:28.03 | tekkub | raids are raids |
| 08:28.08 | tekkub | they're designed for raids |
| 08:28.19 | ZorbaBeta | ypi |
| 08:28.21 | tekkub | requiring a raid to do a raid just seems like basic logic |
| 08:28.25 | ZorbaBeta | you're back to "functions as implemented", though |
| 08:28.35 | ZorbaBeta | raids are no longer things you bring 25 people to. Some of them are things you go farm solo 'cause you want a neat drop. |
| 08:28.53 | tekkub | then you do that |
| 08:32.12 | Zyn | http://kotaku.com/5369862/would-you-prefer-to-be-slapped-or-game-with-a-girl |
| 08:35.56 | tekkub | no |
| 08:36.29 | Thunder_Child | "Lie on her lap while she cleans your ear (20 mins 1,500 yen, 40 mins 3,000 yen)" that feels so ferengi |
| 08:39.58 | tekkub | oh I just got a great idea |
| 08:40.15 | tekkub | a lil script to compile recipe text files into a nice kindle book |
| 08:40.25 | tekkub | and I can name it Fakui-san |
| 08:45.41 | tem | for wow? |
| 08:45.48 | tem | I'm confused |
| 08:48.31 | tekkub | no for the kindle |
| 08:49.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@124-170-157-210.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 08:54.18 | Wobin | http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu196/RoblesZX1/Please.gif |
| 08:54.41 | Wobin | can't stop laughing |
| 08:54.44 | Cairenn | what a horrendous thing to do to the cat |
| 08:55.01 | Wobin | cat looks so disgruntled |
| 08:55.27 | Cairenn | hehehe |
| 08:56.18 | Arrowmaster | probably because its feet cant get a grip on the table |
| 08:56.47 | Arrowmaster | it looks like it falls off the end instead of jumping |
| 08:56.56 | Wobin | yeah =\ |
| 08:57.10 | Wobin | the whole kicky feet thing, though... |
| 08:57.25 | Arrowmaster | yeah im laughing too |
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| 09:08.52 | Wobin | http://www.teefury.com/ |
| 09:08.53 | Wobin | oh god |
| 09:08.56 | Wobin | charizard =( |
| 09:12.02 | Arrowmaster | http://kotaku.com/5369386/the-epic-final-fantasy-xiii-tgs-trailer |
| 09:12.15 | Arrowmaster | yeah i need to buy a new monitor before that comes out |
| 09:13.14 | Arrowmaster | oh wait thats gona be on 360 too isnt it, ok im good then since its just the ps3 i get shitty resolution and quality from since i dont have hdcp |
| 09:15.45 | *** join/#wowuidev zeheres (n=crs@dslb-084-061-018-163.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 09:17.15 | Wobin | http://www.reallifecomics.com/comics/2009/20090929_2309.png |
| 09:17.19 | Wobin | ... is -so- true |
| 09:18.36 | zeheres | haha |
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| 09:20.40 | nevcairiel | I've only read digital fortress and angels and demons, that trend must've come after that :P |
| 09:21.42 | Arrowmaster | "Ultima Online celebrates its twelfth birthday by inviting everyone who has ever played back to rediscover the joys of getting killed over and over again while trying to chop wood." |
| 09:21.47 | Arrowmaster | cant stop laughing |
| 09:21.57 | zeheres | :D |
| 09:25.13 | _rane | wow carebears could use that kind of treatment for a while |
| 09:25.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Aelobin (n=Aelobin@85.210.17.169) |
| 09:37.41 | Wobin | nevcairiel, yeah it did |
| 09:47.55 | olafski | I've read all except the new dan brown book and I liked every one of them :P |
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| 10:08.18 | Tepel | Does anyone know of a replacement for AuldLangSyne? |
| 10:08.39 | Elkano | depends on what parts you want to have replace |
| 10:09.13 | Tepel | Ah I think I've found one |
| 10:09.23 | Tepel | Broker SocialState |
| 10:13.53 | Elkano | if you only want the tooltip part, I should recomend FriendsFu ;) |
| 10:13.56 | tem | Warriors with points in multiple specialization talents make me giggle |
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| 10:23.22 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Legorol] by ChanServ |
| 10:27.53 | Aelobin | i think i just replaced a gem with the same gem and clicked confirm |
| 10:27.56 | Aelobin | without realising 0_o |
| 10:28.03 | Wobin | olafski, You can't deny that the comic mirrors the storyline down to a tee, though =) |
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| 10:41.15 | tem | Any arms warriors around? |
| 10:41.41 | tem | I'm noticing poeple with points in the parry talent in a pve arms build |
| 10:41.43 | tem | wtf? |
| 10:42.15 | nevcairiel | a arms dps build with parry? |
| 10:42.16 | nevcairiel | wtf |
| 10:42.31 | jpmorgan | sounds dumb |
| 10:42.52 | ZorbaBeta | tem, points in parry for a pve fury build actually makes sense |
| 10:42.57 | ZorbaBeta | but if it's a pve arms build they're basically on drugs |
| 10:43.19 | nevcairiel | how does it make sense for any dps build? you're not supposed to get hit |
| 10:43.21 | tem | why is it acceptable for pve fury? |
| 10:43.30 | ZorbaBeta | eh, actually, I might be wrong on that too, it might be fine for pve arms as wlel |
| 10:43.41 | ZorbaBeta | the problem is that the second tier of Arms is absolutely vacant of anything useful in pve raiding |
| 10:43.55 | ZorbaBeta | so if you want to get further down the tree, you have to take *something* terrible |
| 10:44.16 | ZorbaBeta | parry is arguably the least terrible |
| 10:44.24 | tem | I disagree wholeheartedly |
| 10:44.53 | tem | 2/2 imp charge gives you more rage when you can use charge for movement |
| 10:44.57 | tem | 3/3 tactical mastery helps if you absoutely must interrupt |
| 10:45.23 | ZorbaBeta | for fury, you can interrupt in berserker quite easily |
| 10:45.29 | tem | not talking fury |
| 10:45.38 | ZorbaBeta | and there's very few fights where you'd need to force arms to interrupt (if any - maybe vezax?) |
| 10:46.01 | tem | yeah I really can't think of any either |
| 10:46.09 | tem | not even vezax |
| 10:46.15 | Wobin | IC? |
| 10:46.16 | tem | if you need to interrupt it's too late anyway |
| 10:46.25 | ZorbaBeta | yeah |
| 10:46.25 | Wobin | if you're after the achievement |
| 10:46.32 | ZorbaBeta | stancedancing in pve is 99% dead |
| 10:46.42 | ZorbaBeta | wobin, maybe, but that's a serious niche case |
| 10:46.55 | Wobin | ZorbaBeta, as is most chain interrupt instances =) |
| 10:47.08 | Wobin | s/is/are/ |
| 10:47.30 | ZorbaBeta | well, that's sorta my point, then. tactical mastery ain't great. parry is arguably better in pve, even for dps :) |
| 10:47.57 | ZorbaBeta | it's sort of a dead heat between "nearly worthless" and "nearly worthless", and you gotta spend those points somewhere. |
| 10:48.29 | tem | heh |
| 10:48.53 | tem | if they're both worthless in a raid, then I'd spen em wherever makes my out-of-raid life better |
| 10:49.18 | mikma | http://kuvaton.com/kuvei/dirty_mind6.jpg |
| 10:49.33 | ZorbaBeta | I'd probably go with iron will in that case, myself |
| 10:50.15 | ZorbaBeta | unless I decided to go prot/arms in which case it's not like I'll be using arms for soloing anyway |
| 11:24.31 | Legorol | bit late to the debate: I think Iron Will is the least worthless talent there for PvE |
| 11:24.43 | Legorol | there are bosses that fear you, and an extra chance at breaking fear can be useful |
| 11:24.52 | Legorol | and now that Onyxia is back, all the more reason to get it for P3 ;) |
| 11:25.59 | nevcairiel | it reduces duration of stun and charm, whats there in about fear? |
| 11:27.09 | Legorol | bleh, did they change it? |
| 11:27.09 | Legorol | i thought fear is a charm |
| 11:27.22 | Legorol | ah it reduces duration, then they changed it :/ |
| 11:27.29 | Legorol | meh, it's crap then |
| 11:27.36 | Legorol | didn't it used to be 15% chance to avoid stun/charm? |
| 11:27.49 | nevcairiel | they changed all those effects that give a resist chance |
| 11:27.56 | nevcairiel | to reduce duration |
| 11:28.00 | nevcairiel | to take RNG out |
| 11:28.03 | Legorol | well, still good in Ony P3 then :) |
| 11:28.11 | nevcairiel | i don't think fear is charm |
| 11:28.19 | Legorol | then what is |
| 11:28.29 | Legorol | blind? |
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| 11:28.49 | Legorol | i doubt blind is a charm |
| 11:29.03 | Legorol | actually, charm is not a technical term, which is annoying |
| 11:29.08 | Stanzilla | seduction is |
| 11:29.16 | Stanzilla | I think |
| 11:30.26 | nevcairiel | http://www.wowwiki.com/Charm |
| 11:30.54 | nevcairiel | nothing about fear |
| 11:30.59 | Stanzilla | I was right \o/ |
| 11:31.12 | nevcairiel | Insignia of the Alliance/Horde and Medallion of the Alliance/Horde now remove Fear, Stun and Polymorph effects and no longer remove Charm effects. |
| 11:31.23 | nevcairiel | that practically says fear and charm are different |
| 11:32.02 | nevcairiel | druids sleep probably counts as a charm as well |
| 11:32.15 | nevcairiel | even though you can only use it on other druids in animal form :P |
| 11:32.19 | nevcairiel | or on npcs, for that matter |
| 11:32.35 | _rane | nevcairiel: or shamans in ghost wolf |
| 11:32.40 | nevcairiel | oh right |
| 11:32.56 | nevcairiel | forgot about those |
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| 11:57.27 | Aelobin | where do you get the Astral Walker title from? :o |
| 11:59.29 | Aelobin | oh 25man algalon |
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| 12:14.29 | boomnuts | hey is the wow fishing app for the ipod touch gon get me in truble with blizz? |
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| 12:24.27 | *** part/#wowuidev boomnuts (n=eddie@75-95-157-132.anc.clearwire-dns.net) |
| 12:25.04 | Wobin | ...wow fishing app? |
| 12:26.39 | Wobin | http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=314330277&mt=8 |
| 12:26.39 | Wobin | omg |
| 12:27.10 | Wobin | 131 one star ratings =P |
| 12:28.32 | theorbtwo | Hm, annoying, I can't look at the metadata on the app without itms installed. |
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| 12:38.42 | mikma | wobin: the link doesn't work |
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| 12:38.51 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 12:39.12 | Wobin | hm |
| 12:39.21 | Wobin | do you have itunes installed? |
| 12:39.46 | Wobin | if so, search for wow fishing |
| 12:39.51 | Wobin | otherwise you're out of luck |
| 12:41.16 | mikma | heh, don't have it installed |
| 12:41.31 | mikma | i trust pirated version of airfoil and winamp instead |
| 12:41.33 | Wobin | basically it hooks up your iphone to be a touchpad |
| 12:41.46 | Wobin | and ties the motion detection to the mouse clicks |
| 12:41.52 | Wobin | so you 'cast' the line |
| 12:41.55 | Wobin | and 'pull' it back in |
| 12:43.54 | Legorol | that sounds like a creative idea |
| 12:43.57 | Legorol | shouldn't be any trouble |
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| 13:25.51 | Grimsin | anyone awake? |
| 13:28.54 | Grimsin | what is the no-lib-strip section do in the .toc? |
| 13:32.21 | Grum | probably a mistake of someone, those should be wowace/curse packager directives nothing which would concern wow |
| 13:38.42 | Grimsin | oh really? so should not be in the .toc? i see those in a lot of addon's toc files though. One im looking at as we type is Elkanos buff bars. He used that line in the .toc wraped around on the ace libs. |
| 13:39.10 | Grimsin | also he uses a # infront of one of his directorys does that do anything special? |
| 13:40.03 | Elkano | Grimsin: http://kb.wowace.com/repositories/repository-keyword-substitutions/#w-no-lib-replacements |
| 13:48.56 | Grimsin | it still does not make it very clear but clear enough to know that it does not mater for what im trying to do.... |
| 13:49.06 | Grimsin | thanks elkano |
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| 14:13.23 | Fisker | slaps Wobin around a bit with a large trout |
| 14:13.23 | Fisker | slaps mikma around a bit with a large trout |
| 14:13.25 | Fisker | slaps Robotusch around a bit with a large trout |
| 14:14.24 | Wobin | thinks Fisker owns a fishery |
| 14:15.32 | Fisker | but i do |
| 14:16.04 | Wobin | Don't you get tired of trout? |
| 14:16.51 | Fisker | no |
| 14:16.55 | Fisker | it empowers me |
| 14:23.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (n=Vilkku@dsl-tkubrasgw1-ffc7c100-46.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 14:24.39 | Fisker | i r killed you Wobin |
| 14:24.59 | Wobin | sense |
| 14:25.02 | Wobin | It makes not. |
| 14:26.24 | Fisker | sense make you Wobin |
| 14:26.48 | Wobin | narg zing frob |
| 14:26.58 | Fisker | sasaihdl4n231? |
| 14:28.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (n=Vilkku@dsl-tkubrasgw1-ffc7c100-46.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 14:29.17 | Fisker | kkkkkilling you Wobin |
| 14:29.48 | Wobin | Killing me softly |
| 14:29.48 | Wobin | WITH YOUR SONG |
| 14:30.00 | Aelobin | Fisker :O |
| 14:30.46 | Fisker | Aelobinmen |
| 14:31.05 | Aelobin | ok |
| 14:31.12 | Fisker | Aelobin |
| 14:31.29 | Aelobin | sup |
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| 14:31.49 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 14:32.15 | Fisker | sticks his tongue down Aelobin's throat |
| 14:32.30 | Aelobin | ok |
| 14:32.47 | Wobin | Aelobin, Fisker gets his tongues from a can |
| 14:32.57 | Aelobin | lol |
| 14:33.37 | Wobin | http://img.myshopping.com.au/rsz/cache/04/14/83310414.jpg |
| 14:34.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (n=Vilkku@dsl-tkubrasgw1-ffc7c100-46.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 14:34.45 | Aelobin | im proud to announce the cake is not a lie |
| 14:34.53 | Aelobin | though it probably soon will be |
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| 14:36.51 | Fisker | Aelobin ;3 |
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| 14:54.33 | Fisker | i can kill you Aelobin |
| 14:54.42 | Aelobin | i highly doubt that |
| 14:55.25 | Lopeppeppy | "can" is possible, "will" and "may" are not yet determined. |
| 14:56.04 | Aelobin | yeh well you called me vegetable :< |
| 14:56.46 | Lopeppeppy | carrots are good for the soul |
| 14:58.22 | Ackis | and eyes |
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| 14:58.42 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ |
| 15:00.00 | Lopeppeppy | You have eyes? Your eyes are good for my soul? Fork 'em over. |
| 15:01.21 | Ackis | no |
| 15:01.22 | Ackis | nein |
| 15:01.23 | Ackis | neit |
| 15:01.24 | Ackis | no |
| 15:01.26 | Ackis | non |
| 15:01.27 | zenzelezz | snuggles Lopeppeppy |
| 15:01.40 | Lopeppeppy | heya, zenzelezz. I'm not unreasonable, even if i want to eat your eyes. |
| 15:01.52 | Ackis | http://news.aol.com/article/hitler-dna-casts-doubt-on-suicide-story/690447 |
| 15:01.55 | zenzelezz | you always have my eyes peppy |
| 15:01.59 | Lopeppeppy | Awww. |
| 15:02.12 | Lopeppeppy | I need lunch. Again. This frakkin' hand and not being able to cook is... getting inconvenient. |
| 15:02.19 | Lopeppeppy | brb, lunchings! |
| 15:02.30 | Ackis | it's too early for lunch |
| 15:02.50 | Lopeppeppy | Not if I have to elave campus and drive downtown,it's not. errand lunch = 11, campus lunch - noon. |
| 15:03.27 | Ackis | good thing it's only 9 am |
| 15:03.32 | zenzelezz | http://icanhascheezburger.com/2009/09/28/funny-pictures-its-2/ |
| 15:05.31 | Fisker | good night sweet Ackis |
| 15:05.37 | Fisker | old news Ackis |
| 15:05.49 | Ackis | I love you Fisker |
| 15:05.56 | Ackis | get an xbox and I"ll love you even more |
| 15:06.42 | Fisker | i would rather die |
| 15:08.04 | zenzelezz | "There was a Windows XP PowerToy for creating hard links, but the backup team recommended that it not be released because so many third party backup programs exploded when they stumbled across files that had multiple names in the file system." o_O |
| 15:09.20 | Arrowmaster | thats why you release the full file system specs and then recommend they be followed rather than just doing what the people think the operating system supports |
| 15:10.08 | theorbtwo | Arrowmaster: MS have always been quite clear that NTFS supports hardlinks and reparse points. |
| 15:10.35 | Arrowmaster | i know, and yet even now a lot of programs blow up on them |
| 15:10.41 | theorbtwo | I agree, releasing full specs is good, but I don't think that's the problem. |
| 15:11.28 | theorbtwo | The problem is that people don't test against everything that is possible. They run it in a couple scenerios, and say "it works, ship it". |
| 15:16.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper (n=Spellsha@dslb-084-057-247-030.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:16.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 15:17.26 | zenzelezz | yeah, hard links are confusing |
| 15:17.31 | zenzelezz | http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/2009/09/28/9900082.aspx |
| 15:19.13 | Grum | zenzelezz: they are not? :( |
| 15:19.26 | zenzelezz | your opinion may differ from mine |
| 15:19.37 | zenzelezz | I'm assuming what he mentions in that post is far from the full details |
| 15:20.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Roofel (n=chatzill@c845245C1.dhcp.bluecom.no) |
| 15:21.09 | Grum | i wonder why `unix people` understand hard/softlinks without any of that shit :) |
| 15:21.44 | zenzelezz | real unix people perhaps; most stop at "ln -s" |
| 15:22.00 | Fisker | also |
| 15:22.08 | Fisker | linux is for fags |
| 15:22.09 | Grum | yes then don't use -s and omg hardlink |
| 15:22.11 | Fisker | of course |
| 15:22.21 | Fisker | Windows is for users |
| 15:22.47 | zenzelezz | Grum: the whole point is that if you don't understand something, don't use it (or at least don't come crying when your stuff breaks because of your misunderstanding) |
| 15:23.22 | Grum | its just stupid that 'programs break' on hard/softlinks according to that article eventhough the os/fs supports it |
| 15:23.43 | Fisker | http://www.microsoft.com/security_essentials/support.aspx?mkt=en-us |
| 15:23.55 | zenzelezz | the programs wouldn't break if they read up on the details |
| 15:24.31 | Grum | i doubt windows flags the files as being 'linked' |
| 15:26.59 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (n=Mike@c-68-38-45-3.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 15:28.11 | Fisker | slaps Grum around a bit with a large trout |
| 15:30.35 | Adys | http://db.mmo-champion.com/search/all/ink_of_the_sea/ |
| 15:30.41 | Adys | does this work under FF for anyone? |
| 15:30.52 | Grum | 1 item, 1 spell |
| 15:30.54 | Grum | yes works? |
| 15:31.15 | Grum | tooltips work as well |
| 15:32.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Awgy (n=Awgy@cpe-098-122-141-216.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 15:41.21 | *** join/#wowuidev kdtresh (n=kdtresh@76.212.99.109) |
| 15:46.25 | *** join/#wowuidev krka (n=krka@c-7f7be155.159-1-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 15:50.53 | Aelobin | disarms Fisker |
| 15:51.47 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (n=p3lim@241.209.202.84.customer.cdi.no) |
| 15:52.17 | Gnarfoz | Adys: on the changelog page: the partial set bonus thingy works on the pages itself, but not on the tooltip |
| 15:52.45 | Cruciformer | it really freaks people out when they realize for the first time that with a hard link each link has the sme inode number. |
| 15:53.22 | Cruciformer | mind you these days there are plenty of "unix people" that don't even know what an inode is :/ |
| 15:53.50 | Cruciformer | "i knowed this stuff once, is that what u mean?" |
| 15:55.01 | Adys | Gnarfoz: yeah i know about that |
| 15:55.08 | Adys | was gonna fix it the other day forgot about it |
| 15:57.22 | Cruciformer | anyone here use tversity with a ps3? |
| 16:01.24 | *** join/#wowuidev silly (i=454910ca@gateway/web/freenode/x-akmcjpvqonivacgy) |
| 16:02.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Kowski (n=ykow@pv130242.reshsg.uci.edu) |
| 16:04.42 | *** part/#wowuidev silly (i=454910ca@gateway/web/freenode/x-akmcjpvqonivacgy) |
| 16:05.55 | *** join/#wowuidev ArrowmasterClass (n=arrow@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ResponsibleForEverythingAndNothing/Arrowmaster) |
| 16:07.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 16:07.33 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
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| 16:26.20 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 16:26.27 | Shirik | too quiet |
| 16:26.33 | Shirik | conversation demanded |
| 16:26.35 | Adys | YOUR MOMMA YOUR MOMMA YOUR MOMMA YOUR MOMMA YOUR MOMMA YOUR MOMMA YOUR MOMMA YOUR MOMMA YOUR MOMMA YOUR MOMMA YOUR MOMMA YOUR MOMMA YOUR MOMMA YOUR MOMMA YOUR MOMMA |
| 16:27.24 | Adys | happy or what? |
| 16:28.15 | Shirik | no |
| 16:31.01 | Lopeppeppy | Debate: turkey sandwiches are less flavorful than cardboard. Go! |
| 16:31.29 | nicoli_s | lies |
| 16:31.32 | nicoli_s | i loves me some turkey |
| 16:31.52 | Lopeppeppy | I just tried to eat a turkey sandwich with lettuce and tomato... so tasteless! |
| 16:32.03 | Shirik | Lopeppeppy :( |
| 16:32.23 | Lopeppeppy | I favor ham, but I was trying for something more healthy. |
| 16:34.07 | zenzelezz | think it depends on the carboard |
| 16:34.08 | zenzelezz | *cardboard |
| 16:34.30 | ArrowmasterClass | its upto 3 pages now.... http://forums.xbox.com/29189439/ShowPost.aspx |
| 16:35.22 | Lopeppeppy | True, some cardboard is nice and crispy |
| 16:35.23 | ArrowmasterClass | i think im going to try calling again when i get home |
| 16:36.35 | p3lim | is there some archive option in the FrameXML browser at wowprogramming.com? |
| 16:36.51 | haste | ~framexml |
| 16:36.52 | purl | Official: (Mac) http://ftp.blizzard.com/pub/WoW/other/AddOnKit.dmg, (Win) http://ftp.blizzard.com/pub/WoW/other/AddOnKit.zip. Compare: http://wowprogramming.com/utils/xmlbrowser |
| 16:37.19 | Lopeppeppy | sounds like a spiffy update there. |
| 16:40.01 | haste | working as intended |
| 16:40.26 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (n=Adium@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 16:40.26 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 16:40.48 | zenzelezz | patch notes: "Fixed a bug where the status indicator wheel did not progress past green for many users" |
| 16:41.29 | alestane | Kaelten: Why do I get a new "Welcome to Curse Premium!" email every month? Have I not been sufficiently welcomed yet? |
| 16:41.43 | zenzelezz | they *really* value you |
| 16:41.44 | Ackis | alestane: it updates the authors monthly |
| 16:41.58 | Shirik | zenzelezz: status indicator? |
| 16:42.11 | zenzelezz | Shirik: didn't know what else to call it |
| 16:42.19 | Shirik | what is it? |
| 16:42.20 | alestane | I guess it's letting me know that I still qualify again this month. |
| 16:42.23 | zenzelezz | my Xbox lingo is not very good |
| 16:42.56 | Shirik | I'm just not sure what you're talking about at all >< |
| 16:43.17 | zenzelezz | Shirik: what ArrowmasterClass linked |
| 16:44.04 | Ackis | ArrowmasterClass: is there a way to search for posts by a user on the xbox forums? |
| 16:45.14 | ArrowmasterClass | no clue |
| 16:45.31 | Shirik | epic failure Arrowmaster |
| 16:45.44 | Shirik | did they admit to their problem? |
| 16:45.55 | ArrowmasterClass | afaik not yet |
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| 16:58.08 | Shirik | wtf |
| 16:58.15 | Shirik | Linux has an error code EJUKEBOX |
| 16:58.18 | Ackis | ArrowmasterClass: http://forums.xbox.com/user/MyForums.aspx <-- your posts for future reference |
| 16:59.21 | nevcairiel | Shirik, i found ETOOLATE last week, i liked it =P |
| 17:00.20 | NeoTron | ArrowmasterClass: man did Microsoft learn from Blizzard how to QA a patch?! :P |
| 17:00.29 | Shirik | my man page doesn't even have EJUKEBOX :( |
| 17:00.51 | ArrowmasterClass | Shirik: "Lp0 on fire" is better |
| 17:01.54 | NeoTron | hah the swtor site is improved |
| 17:02.02 | NeoTron | now it has the message in german and french too |
| 17:02.09 | nevcairiel | ha |
| 17:05.03 | Aelobin | hmm wonder if a dk tank could solo-tank the encounter phase of thorim using the 2 new quel'serars |
| 17:05.46 | NeoTron | what makes them so good? |
| 17:06.06 | Aelobin | 245 lvl one has 110 and 232 has 100 defense rating on procc |
| 17:06.10 | Aelobin | which apparently is alwaysu p |
| 17:06.13 | Aelobin | *up |
| 17:06.59 | ArrowmasterClass | are DKs tanks that lacking in tank gear with defense? |
| 17:07.13 | NeoTron | no |
| 17:07.19 | Aelobin | i mean when thorim puts the debuff that does -200def |
| 17:07.32 | NeoTron | Ah you mean that part |
| 17:07.44 | Aelobin | if both proccs were constantly up, that's be +110 +100 -200 |
| 17:07.54 | NeoTron | not sure if dw tanking a guy that hits that hard is advisable |
| 17:07.59 | Aelobin | xD |
| 17:08.02 | nevcairiel | the procs give you 100 real defense value? not rating? |
| 17:08.05 | nevcairiel | thats kinda OP :P |
| 17:08.14 | Aelobin | oh is the thorim debuff value? :< |
| 17:08.22 | nevcairiel | debuffs are usually value |
| 17:08.22 | NeoTron | no it's raiting |
| 17:08.30 | nevcairiel | really? thorim is crazy :P |
| 17:08.36 | NeoTron | 42 defense combined |
| 17:08.47 | nevcairiel | thats not even much |
| 17:08.55 | Aelobin | nah it's skill |
| 17:08.58 | Aelobin | so yeh, couldnt be done |
| 17:09.16 | nevcairiel | http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=62130 |
| 17:09.20 | nevcairiel | says skill, indeed |
| 17:09.34 | Aelobin | oh well, i'll keep trying to find some use for quelserar apart from def->avoidance :P |
| 17:09.42 | Aelobin | aye i checked wowwiki XD |
| 17:11.31 | NeoTron | seems like a rpetty good weapon for advoidance and mitigation purposes in general |
| 17:11.56 | Aelobin | had a pally in the guild ask which was better out of that and the 1h tanking sword from toc25 |
| 17:11.56 | NeoTron | 42 defense and 2950 armor isn't nothing |
| 17:12.01 | Aelobin | so it got me thinking ^^ |
| 17:12.13 | NeoTron | that I can't say since I know nothing of toc loot |
| 17:16.16 | NightHawkTheSane | http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2009/6/5rey.html |
| 17:20.57 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI|work (n=chatzill@adcom005v.adcom.uci.edu) |
| 17:24.03 | *** join/#wowuidev luigithekid (n=chatzill@201.208.44.87) |
| 17:35.55 | Shirik | wut |
| 17:36.00 | Shirik | you can actually send signals to init? |
| 17:36.18 | Shirik | do you need to be root? |
| 17:37.55 | *** join/#wowuidev luigithekid_ (n=chatzill@201.208.44.87) |
| 17:37.56 | zenzelezz | what kind of signals? |
| 17:38.28 | Shirik | like SIGSEGV |
| 17:38.51 | nevcairiel | well you need to be root to send signals to root-owned processes |
| 17:38.57 | nevcairiel | obviously |
| 17:39.17 | Shirik | but doesn't it block you from sending SIGKILL? |
| 17:39.26 | Shirik | I thought there was some kind of protection against killing init |
| 17:39.41 | ArrowmasterClass | why dont you test it |
| 17:39.43 | nevcairiel | its possible |
| 17:39.46 | Shirik | lack of a linux box |
| 17:39.54 | Shirik | I'm not going to do this on my server :P |
| 17:39.55 | nevcairiel | but there are so many ways to kill linux once you get root access |
| 17:40.42 | nevcairiel | trys on his laptop |
| 17:42.14 | nevcairiel | KILL is ignored |
| 17:42.28 | nevcairiel | SEGV just gave me a PANIC line, but my system still works |
| 17:42.35 | Shirik | wtf? |
| 17:42.44 | Shirik | So you got a kernel panic but then it just kept going? |
| 17:42.54 | nevcairiel | its not a kernel panic |
| 17:42.59 | Shirik | oh |
| 17:43.12 | nevcairiel | INIT: PANIC: segmentation violation at 0xblaaaa! sleeping for 30 seconds |
| 17:43.27 | Shirik | I thought kernel invokes panic without init |
| 17:43.29 | NeoTron | bah. 0xdeadmeat would be better |
| 17:43.40 | Shirik | deadbeef, NeoTron |
| 17:43.41 | NeoTron | rather. 0xdeadbeef. lawl |
| 17:43.48 | nevcairiel | i was too lazy :P |
| 17:43.53 | nicoli_s | that was the key to war's hash algorithim |
| 17:43.57 | NeoTron | that's a good example of hands faster than brain |
| 17:44.01 | nevcairiel | it had some longish 64bit memory address <.< |
| 17:44.03 | *** join/#wowuidev luigithekid__ (n=chatzill@201.208.44.87) |
| 17:44.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Cairenn (n=Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 17:44.37 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 17:44.49 | zenzelezz | snuggles Cairenn |
| 17:44.51 | nicoli_s | woot! only 4 more jira tasks left to go |
| 17:45.13 | Cairenn | hugs zenzelezz |
| 17:45.22 | zenzelezz | I was amused to see that the iPhone watchdog kills programs that take too long to load using an exception of 0x8badfood |
| 17:45.36 | zenzelezz | or maybe it wasn't an exception, but something involving that value |
| 17:45.42 | nicoli_s | lol |
| 17:45.57 | nevcairiel | i believe that address was used for invalid memory back in the day |
| 17:46.10 | zenzelezz | it's been used for many things |
| 17:46.21 | zenzelezz | same as 0xdeadbeef and company |
| 17:46.47 | nevcairiel | Watchdog timeout: distinguished by exception code 0x8badf00d, timeouts occur when an application takes too long to launch or terminate. |
| 17:46.50 | nevcairiel | http://developer.apple.com/iphone/library/technotes/tn2008/tn2151.html |
| 17:46.53 | nevcairiel | even documented ^ |
| 17:47.01 | zenzelezz | yup |
| 17:47.11 | nevcairiel | there is 0xdeadfa11 too |
| 17:47.15 | nevcairiel | force-quit :p |
| 17:47.18 | zenzelezz | :) |
| 17:48.02 | Shirik | nevcairiel: It still is |
| 17:48.14 | Shirik | Windows initializes memory from one of its API functions with 0xbaadf00d |
| 17:48.15 | *** join/#wowuidev luigithekid___ (n=chatzill@201.208.44.87) |
| 17:48.28 | Shirik | HeapAlloc is 0xCC I believe |
| 17:48.38 | Shirik | I think it's LocalAlloc that does 0xbaadf00d |
| 17:48.50 | nevcairiel | i don't do much windows dev these days |
| 17:49.57 | Shirik | 0xBAADF00D - "Bad Food". This is memory allocated via LocalAlloc( LMEM_FIXED, ... ). It is memory that has been allocated but not yet written to. |
| 17:50.23 | Shirik | And my favorite |
| 17:50.26 | Shirik | FEEEFEEE |
| 17:50.33 | Shirik | 0xFEEEFEEE - OS fill heap memory, which was marked for usage, but wasn't allocated by HeapAlloc() or LocalAlloc(). Or that memory just has been freed by HeapFree(). |
| 17:50.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphon (n=gryphon@c-76-104-164-148.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 17:50.55 | nevcairiel | i dont see the humor in feeefeee |
| 17:50.59 | Shirik | It's fun to say |
| 17:51.24 | Shirik | most of the debug codes are quite boring, though |
| 17:51.43 | Shirik | 0xCC for uninitialized, 0xCD for already freed, 0xFD for "fence debug" |
| 17:52.02 | Shirik | 0xDD for certain types of freed |
| 17:53.58 | zenzelezz | I like the expression "no man's land" when it comes to the memory handling, trying to remember where I saw that... |
| 17:54.33 | Shirik | zenzelezz: 0xFD has two names |
| 17:54.37 | Shirik | "no man's land" and "fence debug" |
| 17:54.41 | Shirik | depending on who you talk to |
| 17:55.02 | Shirik | some people like myself prefer "fence debug" simply because it's a good acronym for the actual value |
| 17:55.10 | Shirik | but I think in the header file it's actually called no man's land |
| 17:55.50 | zenzelezz | that's probably where I saw the phrase |
| 17:55.55 | Shirik | static unsigned char _bNoMansLandFill = 0xFD; /* fill no-man's land with this */ |
| 17:56.12 | ccox | don't forget the classic 0x1BADBABE |
| 17:56.22 | zenzelezz | ccox: haha |
| 17:56.27 | zenzelezz | is that one used somewhere? |
| 17:56.32 | ccox | yes |
| 17:56.32 | Shirik | 0xCAFEBABE |
| 17:57.11 | nicoli_s | what about 0xB00BEEEE ? is that not worth mentioning |
| 17:57.12 | ccox | hmm, hadn't seen that one used |
| 17:57.28 | ccox | nicoli_s: too junvenile |
| 17:58.02 | Shirik | kbye |
| 17:58.05 | nicoli_s | no, it would have been too juvenile with another 4 Es |
| 17:58.10 | nicoli_s | 4 is just enough |
| 17:59.03 | ccox | nicoli_s: trust me, still juvenile |
| 17:59.26 | nicoli_s | lies! |
| 17:59.45 | NeoTron | nicoli_s: so you playing Aion now? |
| 18:00.09 | nicoli_s | a little yeah |
| 18:00.23 | NeoTron | how is it? |
| 18:00.25 | nicoli_s | im liking it so far, ready to get high level enough to play with the rest of the Curse guild |
| 18:02.07 | nicoli_s | graphics are good, the quests are so-so, but the loot is nice, and the high level stuff looks good |
| 18:02.37 | NeoTron | done any instances? |
| 18:04.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Keias (n=bleh@pool-72-86-106-233.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 18:06.54 | nicoli_s | nope, they arent till higher level |
| 18:07.02 | nicoli_s | 25 is the first one and im just about to hit 13 |
| 18:08.16 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (i=smcn@67.166.76.157) |
| 18:09.07 | NeoTron | ah |
| 18:11.31 | nicoli_s | im just ready to get to the pvp-centric area atm |
| 18:12.10 | NeoTron | that's the biggest adversion I have. forced pvp |
| 18:15.17 | NeoTron | how solo-friendly is Aion btw? |
| 18:17.29 | nicoli_s | very as far as i've seen |
| 18:17.53 | KarlKFI|work | reviews i saw didn't really impress me |
| 18:18.01 | nicoli_s | and from what i've heard the pvp isnt forced, its when you get to the pvp stuff when you can start doing instances and stuff |
| 18:18.08 | KarlKFI|work | that and i couldn't get the beta to even work |
| 18:18.42 | KarlKFI|work | pvp not forced == expect to be ganked a ton when people get to the level cap |
| 18:19.54 | NeoTron | KarlKFI|work: which of course is a typical pvp server feature in WoW |
| 18:20.24 | NeoTron | that you can opt out of |
| 18:20.31 | KarlKFI|work | bored players is not a server feature |
| 18:20.32 | nicoli_s | well its pretty cool, they actually have some interesting anti-gank features |
| 18:20.56 | NeoTron | KarlKFI|work: except the PvPvE zone might help a lot |
| 18:20.59 | nicoli_s | where if you kill people too low below your level, they get marked on the map for people to see, and if they do it more than once, they start getting debuffed |
| 18:21.02 | NeoTron | since there's more benefit, I gather, to fight there |
| 18:21.34 | NeoTron | from a pvpve point of view though, it seems like a very real risk that the servers will get unbalanced |
| 18:21.37 | nicoli_s | yah, fighting there gets you abyss points used for the good gear |
| 18:21.46 | nicoli_s | well they are pretty balanced so far |
| 18:21.47 | KarlKFI|work | debuffed and marked sounds like a challenge to me... |
| 18:22.09 | nicoli_s | http://na.aiononline.com/livestatus/server/ |
| 18:22.27 | nicoli_s | 49/51 on most servers which isnt that bad at all |
| 18:22.46 | NeoTron | I think the fact that both sides are essentially the same helps |
| 18:22.56 | NeoTron | like horde/alliance was basically pretty vs ugly |
| 18:23.07 | NeoTron | although the dark side certainly appear more evil |
| 18:23.14 | NeoTron | out of necessity of course ;-) |
| 18:28.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 18:28.40 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 18:31.36 | Dagmar | s/more evil/genetically inferior/; |
| 18:31.53 | Dagmar | No one likes excessive back hair. |
| 18:32.06 | NeoTron | hehe |
| 18:32.12 | NeoTron | but.. they would be cold otherwise |
| 18:33.08 | Dagmar | They're disgusting throwbacks that should be purged. |
| 18:33.11 | NeoTron | nicoli_s: what class are you? |
| 18:33.27 | NeoTron | Dagmar: so I take it you're playing Elyos? ;-) |
| 18:33.32 | Dagmar | Nope. |
| 18:33.40 | NeoTron | heh |
| 18:34.27 | Dagmar | I have better things to do with my time than to play a gussied up j-grinder |
| 18:35.24 | NeoTron | orly? |
| 18:35.32 | Dagmar | yes. |
| 18:35.44 | Dagmar | I didn't see anything remotely interesting beyond crafting crits |
| 18:36.29 | NeoTron | well |
| 18:36.32 | Dagmar | If you want me to say someting nice about it, at least the primary mage attack wasn't shooting a freakin' rainbow at people. |
| 18:36.43 | NeoTron | I only played to level 8 in the beta, but it had a very wow-like feel to me |
| 18:37.14 | NeoTron | I play a lot for the story these days. |
| 18:37.17 | Dagmar | WoW never had you running back and forth along the same road for hours |
| 18:37.32 | Dagmar | Darkshire notwithstanding--at least you could go the northern route there. |
| 18:37.34 | NeoTron | wow had a hell of a lot of running around in general |
| 18:37.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@141.222.29.18) |
| 18:37.40 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 18:37.48 | Dagmar | But back and forth along the _same twisting road_? |
| 18:38.14 | NeoTron | elwynn forest |
| 18:38.24 | NeoTron | I don't know how many times I ran between E and W :P |
| 18:38.35 | Seerah | ashenvale |
| 18:38.36 | Dagmar | You could go straight to most locations without having to follow the road |
| 18:38.43 | Lopeppeppy | Ugh, very ugh. Ashenvale drove me nuts. |
| 18:38.46 | Lopeppeppy | Duskwood as well. |
| 18:39.14 | Lopeppeppy | Out to the cemetery. Back. Out. Back. |
| 18:39.14 | Dagmar | Duskwood had two main routes you could take |
| 18:39.14 | NeoTron | making you run around a lot == mmorpg staple |
| 18:39.14 | Lopeppeppy | I would fly to Sentinel Hill and then come back across the river. |
| 18:39.14 | NeoTron | one thing that's different in CO. sure you run around a lot.. but you move fast from level 5 |
| 18:39.16 | Seerah | *nod* |
| 18:39.43 | NeoTron | sure but typically you followed the road since you didn't have to deal with mobs when |
| 18:40.01 | Lopeppeppy | Did too, some of those wolves came close |
| 18:40.01 | NeoTron | there was a big mountain in th emiddle so not like you could go a straight line. Ashenvale is probably the worst though |
| 18:40.03 | Seerah | I only got to level... 2? on hubby's beta account in Aion. I wouldn't mind trying it again. But there's no trial (yet?).... |
| 18:40.10 | NeoTron | finding the path from A to B there is nearly impossible |
| 18:40.15 | Dagmar | Generally I looked at wildlife as "extra bonux XP" |
| 18:40.32 | NeoTron | Lopeppeppy: well sure but I hated the damn spiders all over the eastern area |
| 18:40.34 | Seerah | crap, what's the zone north of ashenvale?.... that was HORRIBLE for running back and forth |
| 18:40.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Doow (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/doow) |
| 18:40.35 | NeoTron | because spiders are SPIDERS |
| 18:40.45 | NeoTron | oh god. Felwood |
| 18:40.58 | Lopeppeppy | Until they put in the second fp, that sucked. |
| 18:40.58 | Dagmar | I didnt' spend a lot of time on the road in Felwood |
| 18:41.02 | NeoTron | heck remeber a lot of these zones either lacked a flight path or had just one |
| 18:41.08 | NeoTron | and graveyards in one end of a very long zone |
| 18:41.10 | Dagmar | ...mainly because I was just killing my way through the heath. |
| 18:41.23 | NeoTron | STV, as alliance. Only FP is in duskwood and all the way to the south |
| 18:41.25 | NeoTron | that blew too |
| 18:41.43 | Lopeppeppy | new fp in stv helps, but I still only ever did the hunting camp quests |
| 18:41.45 | NeoTron | barrens is a horde example that used to be rather horrid |
| 18:42.12 | NeoTron | in either Dagmar, Wow has plenty of running around, back and forth. not having to take the same path isn't much difference to me |
| 18:42.24 | Legorol | you guys make it sound like as if the leveling experince in WoW is horrible |
| 18:42.25 | NeoTron | since typically you want to go from A to B fast and not 1/2 as fast |
| 18:42.35 | Legorol | even back in vanilla, it was far far better than other mmorpgs before it |
| 18:42.41 | NeoTron | Legorol: not at all, just stating it's not really better than Aion seems :P |
| 18:42.55 | NeoTron | STV used to have just one graveyard |
| 18:42.58 | Lopeppeppy | I loved the leveling experience, just not soem of the running. They've come a long way to fixing the running. |
| 18:43.01 | NeoTron | all the way to the south |
| 18:43.09 | NeoTron | Lopeppeppy: level 20 mounts for one |
| 18:43.17 | Legorol | Lopeppeppy: yah but if there was no running involved, there'd be no meaning to distance |
| 18:43.28 | NeoTron | in fact, a lot of wow zones used to have just one graveyard in a very non-central position |
| 18:43.32 | Lopeppeppy | earlier mounts, more flight points, more graveyards |
| 18:43.32 | Legorol | instant teleport to quest location -> would be utter fail |
| 18:43.54 | Dagmar | Players used to be more careful about not dying so it didn't much matter |
| 18:43.56 | Legorol | Lopeppeppy: imo that's just to make the leveling faster to 60 |
| 18:44.14 | Legorol | the 1-60 content is outdated, and you want players to get through it asap |
| 18:44.23 | Legorol | but back when it was current, there was no problem with having to run |
| 18:44.50 | Lopeppeppy | Maybe, but no matter the real reason, what those things physically do is cut travel time. |
| 18:44.56 | Legorol | i'm not saying running isn't boring as hell, but it gave you a genuine choice: do i bother finishing this quest, or move on because it'd involve too much travel? |
| 18:45.07 | Dagmar | I'm not sure how Star Trek Online is going to handle the travel thing |
| 18:45.13 | Dagmar | I mean, teleporters. What? |
| 18:47.28 | Dagmar | Legorol: Since I always had a "kill anything in my way" policy I generally only dropped quests after they'd turned grey or I'd left the area |
| 18:48.12 | Lopeppeppy | After my first character, I always plotted things out, did groups of quests, and ignored the single quests that were way out of the way. |
| 18:48.26 | NeoTron | Dagmar: like CO I guess. |
| 18:48.45 | NeoTron | Dagmar: in either case, also remember the quests in WoW that made you go all over the fricking world. Linken comes to mind |
| 18:48.57 | Dagmar | CO? |
| 18:49.00 | NeoTron | un'goro to felwood to barrens to felwood to un'goro |
| 18:49.03 | NeoTron | Champions Online |
| 18:49.17 | Dagmar | I actually like CO better than Aion |
| 18:49.25 | Dagmar | ...although it's got FREAKING BEASTLY video requirements. |
| 18:49.40 | NeoTron | might be more CPU |
| 18:49.44 | Legorol | NeoTron: so don't do those quests. Some people actually liked those quests (like me). |
| 18:49.46 | Legorol | I like to travel |
| 18:49.50 | NeoTron | I mean I've run at 50% cpu on my Core i7 with that game |
| 18:49.59 | NeoTron | Legorol: you're still missing the point |
| 18:50.02 | NeoTron | Legorol: completely |
| 18:50.13 | Legorol | No i don't think I am. Travel takes time and is boring. |
| 18:50.18 | Legorol | People don't like things that are boring and take time. |
| 18:50.22 | Dagmar | It's not CPU. It's video. |
| 18:50.30 | Dagmar | I've got a 4850e that doesn't even strain |
| 18:50.30 | NeoTron | "< Dagmar> WoW never had you running back and forth along the same road for hours" |
| 18:50.45 | NeoTron | Legorol: the whole point is, Wow did in fact have you do that so it's all about discounting that comment |
| 18:51.01 | Dagmar | NeoTron: No, WoW gave you roads you could use, or you could cut through the outback |
| 18:51.04 | NeoTron | no one said it was bad or horrible, only that it's nothing unique to Aion |
| 18:51.10 | Dagmar | You also had other starting cities and areas you could go to. |
| 18:51.30 | Dagmar | ...and there's part of my point. There's nothing unique to Aion worth bothering with. |
| 18:51.38 | Dagmar | Unless, perhaps, you have a thing for back hair. |
| 18:51.43 | NeoTron | Dagmar: certainly but let's be honest here - who played the NE areas beyond the starting zone? ;-) |
| 18:51.46 | Lopeppeppy | It's just a new flavor of ice cream. I have plenty of ice cream. |
| 18:51.57 | NeoTron | I agree it's just a new flavor of the same thing |
| 18:52.15 | Dagmar | I mean, I can say that unlike other games, they got the micro-management of moving your toon around right |
| 18:52.16 | NeoTron | except the wow ice cream has melted and is all yucky so nothing wrong with a new, nicely cold flavor |
| 18:52.20 | Legorol | at any rate, the only people to top blizzard are likely to be blizzard |
| 18:52.41 | Dagmar | I really detest games where your character glides or lags in changing position between sitting and standing so they kinda of crouch-glide for awhile and so on |
| 18:52.43 | NeoTron | wow was very large at launch |
| 18:52.48 | NeoTron | the expansions, less so |
| 18:53.12 | Dagmar | NeoTron: WoW isn't being run by a company that caters to gold farmers, either. |
| 18:53.16 | Dagmar | BIG issue for me |
| 18:53.22 | NeoTron | Dagmar: yeah that helps |
| 18:53.23 | NeoTron | lawl |
| 18:54.23 | Dagmar | Frankly, at the moment my sole problem with CO is the auction house |
| 18:54.30 | Dagmar | ...which is useless fecal matter. |
| 18:55.07 | *** join/#wowuidev kaiden (n=kaiden@67.183.80.147) |
| 18:55.17 | *** part/#wowuidev boshi23 (n=chris@c-75-75-186-99.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 18:55.27 | Dagmar | It's primary utility at the moment is that for a small fee you can put unused stuff somewhere other than your bank where no one can see it. |
| 18:55.30 | kaiden | Anyone know of a way to disable the display of the new built in Sell Price: in tooltips? |
| 18:55.41 | Dagmar | ...because god knows you're never finding anything in the AH |
| 18:55.45 | kd3 | isn't it an interface option? |
| 18:55.53 | kaiden | is it? i've not seen it |
| 18:56.00 | kaiden | i'll look again :p |
| 18:57.05 | kaiden | nope it's not kd3 |
| 18:57.08 | Legorol | it is |
| 18:57.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Riffage- (n=nnscript@78-86-205-138.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 18:57.15 | kaiden | then where? |
| 18:57.41 | Legorol | hohum, i was thinking of item level and spoke too hastily |
| 18:57.58 | kaiden | :) |
| 19:01.04 | NeoTron | Dagmar: are you 40 yet?\ |
| 19:04.21 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 19:04.21 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 19:11.25 | NeoTron | Dagmar: leveling to 40 is great but the end game, even though it's there, is highly flawed |
| 19:13.42 | Dagmar | NeoTron: Not there yet |
| 19:14.03 | Dagmar | Unlike some folks, I do not expect there to be some kind of "end game" |
| 19:14.09 | NeoTron | well it's there |
| 19:14.18 | NeoTron | it's just that the mechanics are so broken it fails |
| 19:14.26 | NeoTron | like grouping for example. There's no LFG system |
| 19:14.32 | NeoTron | and chat channels are instance/zone specific |
| 19:14.40 | NeoTron | except custom channels |
| 19:15.09 | NeoTron | if you do get a group, hope that you have a healer and a tank (although not necessarily strictly needed maybe). |
| 19:15.58 | NeoTron | so you enter the dungeon. it's fun. you get to the boss. Kill him. one person gets the option to loot he BoP item because master loot is broken (last I tried it caused a crash to desktop when assigning loot) and need/greed loot is broken (half the time or more it never assigns the item to anyone) |
| 19:16.07 | NeoTron | so round robin is the only loot mode that works |
| 19:16.55 | NeoTron | of course to run these end game 5-man instances you need to do 6 daily unity quests. In theory doable in one day except for the fact that a number of the "special" daily quests are broken |
| 19:17.19 | NeoTron | and you get at most 6 tokens per day so you can run at most one dungeon per day. If you happen to exit the dungeon that day, you need another key to get in |
| 19:17.58 | Dagmar | Oh yes, I'm sure the annoying "You just rescued someone" mechanism suddenly stops functioning at 40 |
| 19:18.14 | Dagmar | They aren't dungeons. |
| 19:18.56 | NeoTron | there are no level 40 citizen quests if that's what you're sayng |
| 19:19.34 | NeoTron | but the daily unity quests uses the same identical mechanics, - there are maybe 10 of the normal one and 5 of the special ones. they are like citizen quests but with multiple objectives |
| 19:20.19 | NeoTron | which of course means that if you want to do the nemesis advancement track, you need to grind mobs since any daily quests you do are in instances and doesn't spawn nemesis mobs |
| 19:21.39 | NeoTron | Dagmar: my favorite special quest involves clearing out the crashed Qularr mothership in Millennium City |
| 19:21.53 | NeoTron | you know the one in the river, far outside the range you can move in (i.e the entrance is outside the map) |
| 19:22.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Awgy (n=Awgy@cpe-098-122-141-216.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 19:24.16 | NeoTron | Dagmar: should add that I have a level 40 and a level 34. I play a lot but not excessively so for an MMORPG. when it takes less than 4 days to make it to 40, you level fast |
| 19:25.00 | NeoTron | interesting btw how you mention Aion lacking choices in areas to go to when CO leveling is purely linear along a progression path which, if you don't find various unmarked quests in the wild, doesn't even have sufficient content |
| 19:25.14 | NeoTron | At least Aion has two factions with different areas |
| 19:26.01 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (n=Mike@c-68-38-45-3.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 19:27.01 | NeoTron | end of wall of text crit. Time to heat up my lunch! |
| 19:28.36 | Fisker | durr durr durr durr durr durr durr durr durr durr durr durr durr durr |
| 19:28.41 | Fisker | derp derp derp |
| 19:30.11 | Shirik | WASHINGTON - A tsunami warning was issued for New Zealand and other small Pacific islands after a major 7.9 magnitude quake struck in the ocean off American Samoa, U.S. government agencies said on Tuesday. |
| 19:30.13 | Shirik | :( |
| 19:32.00 | smcn | woot |
| 19:32.59 | smcn | not about the tsunami |
| 19:33.05 | smcn | about swtor beta |
| 19:33.07 | Tepel | DUN DDUN DUUUNNNN! |
| 19:33.08 | Fisker | Atleast fictional stories isn't considered child abuse in new zealand |
| 19:33.12 | Fisker | it is in old zealand ;(! |
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| 19:35.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan (n=pancake@cpe-174-098-002-214.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 19:36.06 | Ackis | https://tools.google.com/chrome/intl/en/themes/index.html cool I did not know about that |
| 19:37.05 | Fisker | old Ackis |
| 19:37.07 | Fisker | i hope you die |
| 19:37.12 | Fisker | just like danish media |
| 19:37.22 | Fisker | opinionated retards |
| 19:37.28 | zenzelezz | Fisker: shut up and have a gammel dansk |
| 19:37.33 | Fisker | no! |
| 19:37.50 | Fisker | i'm gonna make love to your butthole zenzelezz |
| 19:38.03 | zenzelezz | you failed to deliver last night |
| 19:38.13 | Fisker | i was sleeping |
| 19:38.17 | Lopeppeppy | No excuse. |
| 19:50.07 | NeoTron | smcn: so is everyone else, so no one can sign up :P |
| 19:50.14 | smcn | ya |
| 20:04.13 | Thunder_Child | hopefully it will be better than the other game |
| 20:04.47 | zenzelezz | which one? SWG? |
| 20:04.56 | Thunder_Child | kotor |
| 20:05.05 | zenzelezz | you don't like KotOR? |
| 20:05.26 | Thunder_Child | no |
| 20:05.29 | smcn | it's completely different from kotor |
| 20:05.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen1 (n=Sixen@173-25-22-158.client.mchsi.com) |
| 20:05.56 | NeoTron | it looks like the dialog system will be like in Mass Effect |
| 20:06.03 | smcn | yes |
| 20:06.05 | *** join/#wowuidev jpmorgan (n=jpmorgan@67.183.221.120) |
| 20:06.08 | smcn | i love it |
| 20:06.09 | NeoTron | I saw the dialog system and "oh, that's Mass Effect" |
| 20:07.18 | smcn | alpha protocol (though not bioware) is using it too, i don't understand why they aren't using it for dragon age |
| 20:08.33 | smcn | my favorite part of the dialogue system in mass effect after playing kotor was the fact that the wheel pops up in advance so the conversation moves more fluidly (that and of course the main character actually talks :P) |
| 20:08.33 | zenzelezz | it worked, but it wasn't that awesome as far as I can remember... been a while since I played Mass Effect though |
| 20:08.54 | smcn | compared to kotor it is :P |
| 20:09.36 | NeoTron | the main issue I had is that you can't skip the dialog |
| 20:09.36 | NeoTron | in mass effect that is |
| 20:09.42 | smcn | yes you can, on the pc anyways |
| 20:09.42 | NeoTron | in fallout 3 you can skip forward |
| 20:09.46 | smcn | w/spacebar |
| 20:09.51 | NeoTron | you can only skip forward after completing it once |
| 20:10.10 | smcn | there are certain situations you can't skip |
| 20:10.14 | NeoTron | spacebar lets you pre-select the next choice but unless it's your second time, it doesn't move faster |
| 20:10.25 | zenzelezz | I'm just praying there won't be any wookie dialogs |
| 20:10.28 | NeoTron | it never interrupts the spoken words |
| 20:11.23 | smcn | i never had trouble skipping dialogue on my 2nd playthrough, unless that's what you mean, but your first playthrough don't you want to hear the dialogue? :P |
| 20:11.48 | smcn | there are certain scenes where the characters are moving around that you can't skip |
| 20:11.50 | kd3 | whee; heisenbugs are fun |
| 20:12.00 | kd3 | "In short, a theoretically unreachable code path was somehow reached anyway and exploded; this should now be fixed." |
| 20:12.04 | smcn | but i could always skip the standard face-to-face stuff |
| 20:12.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 20:12.26 | alestane | "Heisenbug" == "We're not sure how this happens? |
| 20:12.39 | smcn | and i'm absolutely sure of it because i spent over 100 hours in a week my first time playing it :P |
| 20:12.43 | kd3 | ~dict heisenbug |
| 20:12.47 | *** part/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 20:12.48 | kd3 | pokes purl |
| 20:13.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 20:13.49 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 20:13.53 | NeoTron | smcn: I read faster than I hear :P |
| 20:14.00 | NeoTron | smcn: so yes I meant my first playthrough. |
| 20:14.18 | Shirik | Project for the bored: |
| 20:14.18 | smcn | ah |
| 20:14.18 | Shirik | Run the wayback machine on google.com |
| 20:14.18 | NeoTron | but I understand why they made it so. I finished the game in 3 days |
| 20:14.18 | Shirik | quite interesting |
| 20:14.20 | NeoTron | not 3 days played, but sessions spread over 3 days |
| 20:14.23 | NeoTron | it was a very short game |
| 20:14.39 | smcn | yeah but i got a lot out of it, i fucking love that universe |
| 20:14.47 | NeoTron | I loved the gmae but it was short |
| 20:14.47 | Shirik | ~ping |
| 20:14.48 | purl | ~pong |
| 20:14.59 | NeoTron | and I didn't finish all sidequests partially because they bored me after a while |
| 20:15.13 | NeoTron | all of them were "land on planet, find objective, kill mobs outside and/or kill mobs inside, win" |
| 20:15.18 | NeoTron | they didn't do much for me |
| 20:15.37 | smcn | i played through maybe 6 times, got all the ally achievements and two characters to level 60 :P |
| 20:15.45 | NeoTron | I can't |
| 20:15.47 | smcn | yeah i was sick of them after the last ally achievements |
| 20:15.54 | NeoTron | I just can't play the whole thing again :P |
| 20:16.18 | smcn | i just bought it a couple weeks ago to remake my character and a save file for ME2 |
| 20:16.26 | NeoTron | I tried to play fallout 3, being evil, but it's the same damn thing for the most part. I play a lot for the story |
| 20:16.39 | kd3 | grrs at his new wrist brace |
| 20:16.53 | zenzelezz | kd3: finally got a BFF bracer? |
| 20:17.00 | kd3 | lol |
| 20:17.02 | *** part/#wowuidev pompy (n=Mike@c-68-38-45-3.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 20:17.03 | smcn | that's another thing i like about mass effect's "morality" system, you don't have to choose sides, and you aren't reallly being "evil" |
| 20:17.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Riffage (n=nnscript@78-86-205-138.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 20:17.10 | kd3 | trying to fend off an attack of the carpal tunnels |
| 20:17.30 | NeoTron | smcn: right. you're being rude and arrogant etc. However I find myself almsot unable to be evil. both in F3 and ME |
| 20:17.31 | smcn | i've never been able to be "evil" in games like kotor or fallout 3 |
| 20:17.39 | Lopeppeppy | comforts kd3. carpals hurts! |
| 20:17.47 | smcn | but i had a lot of fun w/my renegade in mass effect |
| 20:18.11 | smcn | knocking out the reporter is funny |
| 20:18.37 | smcn | NeoTron yeah my "main" in mass effect is definitely paragon and it's what i default when playing a game for the first time |
| 20:19.37 | Arrowmaster | ah how cute, some windows software being run in wine just asked me if i would like to restart my computer now |
| 20:20.15 | kd3 | say 'sure. I'll just go run `wineboot` instead' |
| 20:22.01 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (n=Mike@c-68-38-45-3.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 20:22.30 | Arrowmaster | hmm why the hell do i have 5 mplayer instances still running that should have been killed on their own long ago |
| 20:22.49 | kd3 | 'this is the song that never ends...' |
| 20:22.56 | Arrowmaster | lol |
| 20:23.02 | Arrowmaster | but no they werent playing anything |
| 20:23.10 | haste | defunct!? |
| 20:23.41 | Arrowmaster | they could have been, my terminal isnt wide enough to see the end of the command |
| 20:23.57 | haste | top will tell! |
| 20:24.00 | haste | and so will htop |
| 20:24.13 | Arrowmaster | i already killall mplayer |
| 20:24.21 | haste | it's crying on the inside now |
| 20:25.06 | Arrowmaster | i know they were from a day or two ago because they were still set to use more than 1 thread for decoding, which i discovered breaks dvd playback with the default decoder |
| 20:26.22 | zenzelezz | I am too easily amused... being able to turn on my computer with my cell phone makes me chuckle |
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| 20:35.34 | Fisker | hastemen! |
| 20:36.16 | Fisker | i use the internet haste |
| 20:37.07 | haste | Arrowmaster: needs more vdpau |
| 20:37.49 | Arrowmaster | i need to upgrade smplayer for better vdpau support |
| 20:38.07 | nevcairiel | its not really smplayer doing it, its all mplayer itself :p |
| 20:38.14 | kd3 | ^ |
| 20:38.45 | kd3 | builds svn exports every few nights or so |
| 20:38.53 | nevcairiel | i recompile mplayer like every other day, not sure it gains me much |
| 20:38.57 | nevcairiel | but gentoo makes it so easy :D |
| 20:39.31 | Arrowmaster | my mplayer is from yesterday |
| 20:41.58 | Arrowmaster | i think im going to have to resort to running windows in virtualbox for doing my dvd backups |
| 20:45.24 | *** join/#wowuidev kdtresh (n=kdtresh@76.212.99.109) |
| 20:45.34 | haste | I love my mplayer |
| 20:45.46 | haste | it's from a svn snapshot that crashes on mkv files |
| 20:45.54 | haste | and if you enable debugging.. it doesn't |
| 20:52.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Gotai (n=Gotai@94.157.153.83) |
| 21:01.45 | Dagmar | Gosh. Bleeding edge development binaries that crash? |
| 21:01.47 | Dagmar | NEVAR |
| 21:01.55 | Fisker | haste |
| 21:01.59 | Fisker | imma getting me a second 2TB hdd |
| 21:02.02 | Fisker | you can't stop me |
| 21:02.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (n=caleb@dsl4E5C0660.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 21:04.28 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 21:17.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (n=caleb@dsl4E5C0660.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 21:21.01 | haste | Dagmar: quite the reversed in a way tho' |
| 21:21.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 21:21.26 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 21:22.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Pewpewarrows (n=Pewpewar@c-24-126-106-246.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) |
| 21:22.59 | Fisker | slaps haste around a bit with a large trout |
| 21:43.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Aelobin (n=Aelobin@85.210.17.169) |
| 21:46.01 | Aelobin | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:48.26 | Aelobin | ah no its not, throws an error message if no focus :) |
| 21:51.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (n=chatzill@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 21:52.34 | *** join/#wowuidev robo\afk (n=robotusc@80.162.217.2) |
| 21:54.00 | Fisker | slaps Aelobin around a bit with a large trout |
| 21:54.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (n=Kaso@host86-145-163-1.range86-145.btcentralplus.com) |
| 21:54.10 | Aelobin | disarms Fisker once again. |
| 21:54.13 | jpmorgan | its prob safe to assume u cant focus if it doesnt exist |
| 21:54.42 | Aelobin | aye but i didnt want it filling my screen with error messages :) wasn't sure if the "exists" was essential for that |
| 22:03.23 | Fisker | slaps Aelobin around a bit with a large trout |
| 22:03.44 | Aelobin | wonders where Fisker can get such a large supply or trout |
| 22:03.50 | Aelobin | *of :< |
| 22:04.05 | Thunder_Child | it's the same trout |
| 22:04.16 | Thunder_Child | it was passed down by his father |
| 22:05.03 | Aelobin | that's quite a trout then :O |
| 22:08.37 | *** join/#wowuidev cbreak (n=cbreak@217-162-238-189.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 22:09.20 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower (n=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
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| 22:09.23 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ |
| 22:09.35 | *** join/#wowuidev dustice (n=dustin@wireless-128-62-98-209.public.utexas.edu) |
| 22:10.20 | foxlit | hm. |
| 22:10.35 | foxlit | Assigning a local variable to a global data structure should so cause a warning. |
| 22:10.43 | foxlit | (c) |
| 22:11.10 | Dagmar | It will. |
| 22:11.16 | Dagmar | Eventually. ;) |
| 22:11.28 | foxlit | I don't consider "Segmentation fault" a warning :) |
| 22:14.43 | Fisker | slaps foxlit around a bit with a large trout |
| 22:19.23 | Aelobin | slaps Fisker around a bit with a large Fisker |
| 22:19.31 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (i=spode@213-21-88-111.bon.t3.se) |
| 22:22.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (n=chatzill@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 22:22.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=Tuller@pool-96-248-0-53.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) |
| 22:26.56 | Shirik | foxlit: Segmentation fault is bad |
| 22:26.57 | Shirik | :P |
| 22:27.13 | Shirik | or rather, Dagmar |
| 22:27.16 | Shirik | not warning |
| 22:27.32 | Shirik | However, foxlit, what's wrong with that? Do you mean memory address? |
| 22:27.40 | Shirik | C++ grants warnings for that at least |
| 22:28.10 | Fisker | i warned you Shirik |
| 22:28.14 | foxlit | Something like that. |
| 22:28.49 | foxlit | That particular case was FT_Glyph a; FT_Get_Glyph(&a); some_global->glyphs[i] = a; |
| 22:29.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Bibi- (n=Bibi@AVelizy-151-1-93-7.w86-205.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 22:29.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Corrodias (i=no@adsl-75-17-204-12.dsl.euclwi.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:30.12 | foxlit | or, rather ->glyphs[i] = &a; |
| 22:30.16 | foxlit | and since a is on the stack, it has this wonderful habit of vanishing with your stack frame. |
| 22:32.28 | Dagmar | You know, frankly I think I'm fine with it blowing up in a segfault |
| 22:32.45 | Dagmar | You wouldn't want it to continue doing thigns with unallocated memory |
| 22:33.01 | Dagmar | Unless, of course, you're angling for Man Of The Year from SecurityFocus |
| 22:34.43 | foxlit | It's the latter that results in a segfault, however. |
| 22:35.31 | Dagmar | It stops at that point |
| 22:35.39 | Dagmar | That's all the warning you need |
| 22:35.46 | Shirik | that's not a warning |
| 22:35.50 | Shirik | that's a blowuptuation |
| 22:36.03 | Kraps | on ebay, does the seller or buyer leave feedback first? |
| 22:36.17 | Dagmar | Whoever fills in the blanks first |
| 22:37.02 | Dagmar | That reminds me I should check on the guy who was trying to dispute me giving him a low rating for screwing me on shipping |
| 22:37.07 | Kraps | theres no unwritten custom either way? |
| 22:37.22 | Dagmar | You're not looking to trade reacharounds. |
| 22:37.23 | Thunder_Child | Kraps, usually the seller, since the payment is quick but shipping takes time |
| 22:37.30 | Thunder_Child | but it can go either way |
| 22:38.27 | Fisker | http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/ <-LOL WAT |
| 22:38.31 | Fisker | EU gets something before US |
| 22:38.34 | Fisker | and totally fucks it up |
| 22:38.34 | Fisker | gj |
| 22:41.24 | Fisker | http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/jobs/index.html <-gj accusing me :( |
| 22:42.33 | ScytheBlade1 | that is an epic 404 page |
| 22:43.50 | Shirik | actually foxlit the warning given by C++ is a little different |
| 22:43.58 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (n=nuoHep@89.222.156.36) |
| 22:44.29 | foxlit | Shirik: oh? |
| 22:44.33 | Shirik | for: int& foo() { int a; return a; } |
| 22:44.38 | Shirik | It complains warning C4172: returning address of local variable or temporary |
| 22:44.49 | Shirik | If you have an int& that's a global, it would need to be initialized there |
| 22:44.56 | Shirik | because references are constants |
| 22:45.38 | Shirik | if you try to make a reference out of a local variable or temporary and then chuck it out incorrectly, C++ will either stop you or warn you |
| 22:45.45 | Shirik | pointers are a lot more dangerous though |
| 22:45.53 | foxlit | Which is nice and everything, but this reference concept is foreign :) |
| 22:46.08 | Shirik | references are one of the beautiful things of C++ you evil C people need to embrace |
| 22:46.51 | Shirik | though, actually, I get the same warning for returning an int* |
| 22:47.39 | foxlit | Now suppose instead of returning it (well duh!) you assign it to some global variable :) |
| 22:47.49 | Fisker | yay |
| 22:47.52 | Fisker | site not fucked up anymore |
| 22:48.20 | foxlit | Fisker: the 404 is even more awesome, though |
| 22:48.38 | Shirik | foxlit: It's a compiler error |
| 22:49.04 | Shirik | 1>c:\users\mpdelbuono\documents\visual studio 2008\projects\warningtest\warningtest\warningtest.cpp(6) : error C2530: 'gref' : references must be initialized |
| 22:49.04 | Shirik | 1>c:\users\mpdelbuono\documents\visual studio 2008\projects\warningtest\warningtest\warningtest.cpp(10) : error C2100: illegal indirection |
| 22:49.22 | foxlit | reference, though? |
| 22:49.25 | Shirik | yes :P |
| 22:49.42 | Shirik | as a pointer, it doesn't seem to care |
| 22:49.48 | Fisker | LOL |
| 22:49.48 | Shirik | I'm not sure if it should be a warning or not |
| 22:49.58 | Fisker | http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/en/index.html |
| 22:49.59 | foxlit | int * ag; void foo() { int a = 5; ag = &a; } |
| 22:50.54 | Fisker | in case it's fixed: http://images.gammatester.com/pics/505c5a049ce4f1f5d30425d6c6a57f8c.png |
| 22:52.40 | Shirik | see I dunno foxlit |
| 22:52.49 | Shirik | that seems like a common construct |
| 22:53.02 | Fisker | nice new site btw |
| 22:53.58 | mikma | haha |
| 22:54.06 | mikma | awesome |
| 22:54.10 | foxlit | Shirik: Wanting a global to behave unpredictably once foo drops off the stack seems... meh. |
| 22:54.22 | Shirik | but you don't know the global will be used afterwards |
| 22:54.31 | NeoTron | ok so why the hell is blizzard using flash for a fricking single colored title text.. really? |
| 22:55.03 | foxlit | Because flash text renderer is pro(tm). |
| 22:55.58 | NeoTron | is it really a challenge today to make a text rendering engine in the webserver, if you want dynamic titles? |
| 22:56.01 | mikma | everything is down :O |
| 22:56.05 | mikma | even d3 page |
| 22:56.08 | NeoTron | I mean I did that shit 14+ years ago |
| 22:56.35 | foxlit | Out of interest, what are you talking about? |
| 22:56.50 | Shirik | I agree it's worthy of note, I guess foxlit |
| 22:56.57 | Shirik | it may be qualified for a level 4 warning |
| 22:57.01 | Shirik | (using Microsoft's terms) |
| 22:57.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Kowski (n=ykow@pv130242.reshsg.uci.edu) |
| 22:57.13 | NeoTron | foxlit: me? <gtext> in the Roxen webserver |
| 22:57.15 | Shirik | of course, imo, using a global at all is qualified for a warning |
| 22:57.23 | foxlit | NeoTron: what text? |
| 22:58.08 | foxlit | (... is blizzard rendering in flash) |
| 22:58.10 | NeoTron | the titles on the new blizzard site, various titles on wow armory etc |
| 22:58.36 | NeoTron | http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/news/?d=2009-9#302145 <-- news archive & current news headers |
| 22:58.59 | NeoTron | it's apparent to me because, for some reason. flash objects aren't correctly transparent in my ancient browser |
| 22:59.24 | foxlit | Ah, that pretty gradient. |
| 22:59.25 | Shirik | valgrind picks it up foxlit :) |
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| 22:59.28 | Shirik | at least |
| 22:59.38 | Shirik | but at that point it's too late |
| 22:59.46 | NeoTron | http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/games/index.html on that page, "Games" "under development" etc |
| 22:59.57 | Shirik | ==11889== Invalid write of size 4 ==11889== at 0x804839F: main (in /home/mpdelbuono/a.out) ==11889== Address 0xbef00374 is just below the stack ptr. To suppress, use: --workaround-gcc296-bugs=yes |
| 23:00.26 | NightHawkTheSane | ugh. i hate it when sites render -text- in flash |
| 23:00.26 | NightHawkTheSane | its so moronic |
| 23:01.25 | foxlit | May just be a font thing. |
| 23:01.36 | NeoTron | http://docs.roxen.com/roxen/2.2/creator/graphics/gtext.tag <-- that particular feature, server side rendered text, was available in 1994 I believe |
| 23:01.53 | Codayus | NightHawkTheSane: It's arguably the best way to have text in a specific font. |
| 23:01.53 | NeoTron | 1995 at the latest |
| 23:01.53 | Codayus | The alternative being images, which have their own problems. |
| 23:01.56 | foxlit | NeoTron: and yet, why bother? :) |
| 23:01.56 | NightHawkTheSane | Codayus: its also a huge waste of resources |
| 23:02.01 | NeoTron | Codayus: not compared to flash |
| 23:02.15 | Codayus | Resources are cheap. |
| 23:02.25 | foxlit | Client-side resources especially. |
| 23:02.31 | NightHawkTheSane | not guaranteed |
| 23:02.35 | NeoTron | it's a retarded use of flash |
| 23:02.42 | NightHawkTheSane | and further, not accessible. and easily blocked client side, many people do |
| 23:02.52 | foxlit | So let them suffer. |
| 23:02.55 | NeoTron | it's not worth defending such a useless application of a technology |
| 23:03.15 | NeoTron | when it's literally trivial to have the same done server-side and served as an image |
| 23:03.25 | Codayus | If done right, the flash solution will be at least as accessible as images. And you can copy and paste them, which you can't do with images. |
| 23:03.43 | NeoTron | something requiring flash is not as accessible |
| 23:03.54 | NeoTron | it requires a plugin. Images do not |
| 23:03.58 | Codayus | Dependign on how you've defined the problem, flash is a better solution than images. :) |
| 23:04.01 | NeoTron | also flash doesn't work for crap in a text browser |
| 23:04.08 | NeoTron | true |
| 23:04.18 | Codayus | NeoTron: If it REQUIRES flash, you've done it wrong. (Note: It's often done wrong.) |
| 23:04.19 | NeoTron | if the definition is: "DO I want to solve this in the most retarded way possible" |
| 23:04.24 | ScytheBlade1 | Flash is also quite TERRIBLE with focus |
| 23:04.25 | NeoTron | if the answer is yes, then flash is indeed better |
| 23:04.30 | ScytheBlade1 | If I have a flash element that I click on |
| 23:04.39 | ScytheBlade1 | ALL of my browser shortcuts stop working until I click on a non-flash element |
| 23:04.45 | foxlit | The problem was "Do I want to bother?" and the solution was "No I do not" |
| 23:04.46 | *** join/#wowuidev theorbtwo (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 23:04.46 | NightHawkTheSane | ScytheBlade1: flash is quite terrible. full stop. |
| 23:04.50 | ScytheBlade1 | Breaks usability for the *browser* in a single click |
| 23:04.56 | ScytheBlade1 | NightHawkTheSane: that too |
| 23:06.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (n=chatzill@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 23:07.24 | NeoTron | Codayus: do you also feel it's better to use flash to display an image than display the image directly? :P sort of the same thing isn't it? |
| 23:08.22 | Codayus | NeoTron: No. The goal of using flash in that way is that it 1) degrades well for people who have, say, images turned off, and 2) allows you to copy and paste the text, while 3) looking how you wanted it. |
| 23:08.58 | NeoTron | if people have images turned off do you really think that's because they want a big heavy (relative to an image) flash widget shown? |
| 23:09.26 | Codayus | NeoTron: We can PROBABLY assume that if they have images turned off, they have flash disabled as well. And probably javascript, come to that. |
| 23:09.27 | NeoTron | also you do know you can copy images as text too? at least on Linuix |
| 23:09.36 | NeoTron | granted you actually copy the alt text |
| 23:11.14 | Codayus | NeoTron: The alt text should be the same, but I don't believe Firefox, at least, supports that on Windows. And in any case, it wouldn't be as usable as just being able to highlight the text you want, no? |
| 23:12.20 | NeoTron | it works |
| 23:12.28 | NeoTron | as opposed to the flash @ blizzard's site |
| 23:12.28 | Codayus | Of course, the *real* answer here is to just embed the font in the HTML... |
| 23:12.34 | NeoTron | I can not highlight the flash and copy it |
| 23:12.35 | NeoTron | at all |
| 23:12.39 | Codayus | Heh |
| 23:12.41 | Dagmar | Umm... no |
| 23:12.41 | Codayus | *shrug* |
| 23:12.59 | Dagmar | If you select-copy from Firefox you get the ALT text just fine |
| 23:14.14 | Codayus | Blizzard's website has traditionally been terrible. My comments relate to the idea in principle, rather than to any particular broken implementation. |
| 23:14.15 | Thunder_Child | games that dont give screenies with the UI should be shot |
| 23:14.21 | Dagmar | It's when you paste it into Microsoft Word that Word will go out and get the actual *image* to paste into the word doc. |
| 23:15.02 | foxlit | To be fair, they do use the pre-generated image solution at some pages. |
| 23:16.27 | foxlit | It's probably just a design iteration thing: if they already have an implementation that works using flash, they're probably not in a rush to replace it with a different solution to the same problem. |
| 23:16.40 | Thunder_Child | looks like the signup page for swtor is up....but going snail pace |
| 23:17.54 | Codayus | Uhhh. Right, so I might be a LITTLE sleep deprived. I tested it in Opera, not Firefox. |
| 23:18.14 | NeoTron | Thunder_Child: if it was up, it was for a brief period of time |
| 23:18.49 | Codayus | It does NOT work in Opera at all. It does in Firefox, but I maintain that it's hard, confusing, and unintuitive. :) |
| 23:19.52 | Thunder_Child | NeoTron. i guess so, it's down again |
| 23:20.54 | NeoTron | Codayus: even so, I can't cut and paste for flash |
| 23:20.59 | NeoTron | s/for/from/ |
| 23:21.07 | NeoTron | so if opera can I guess it's even 1 to 1 ;-) |
| 23:21.13 | Codayus | NeoTron: Then it's done wrong. |
| 23:21.24 | Codayus | It's not a browser thing at all. |
| 23:22.15 | NeoTron | flash-for-text is horrible in general. I mean a title isn't too bad but sites htat use flash solely for the content basically removes, or rather, redefines all usability in one hit |
| 23:22.21 | Codayus | And it's one of the main reasons you'd use flash over an image. So if you screwed the flash up terribly (which would be sad, there's widely used libraries for this exact purpose), then...sure. |
| 23:22.38 | Codayus | And you'd use it at most for titles, obviously. |
| 23:23.20 | NeoTron | of course, and not going to really care because my setup is forcibly ancient, I get nice black borders on all their "transparent flash" things |
| 23:23.20 | NeoTron | so it looks ugly as heck |
| 23:23.20 | Codayus | (Personally, *I* say everyone should just use serif and sans-serif, like God intended. But if your going to use fancy fonts, you use them on titles, period. And maybe just some of those.) |
| 23:23.43 | Codayus | URL? |
| 23:23.58 | NeoTron | firefox 2 on Linux. so not going to argue it's a big issue overall |
| 23:24.00 | NeoTron | just saying |
| 23:24.11 | NeoTron | http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/games/index.html for example |
| 23:24.37 | NeoTron | but same thing with the level display on the wow armory |
| 23:24.44 | Codayus | The flash version you've got is almost certainly MUCH more important, but... |
| 23:24.50 | Codayus | What bits don't work on that page? |
| 23:24.58 | Codayus | Ah, the word Games. |
| 23:25.01 | NeoTron | Shockwave Flash 9.0 r124 |
| 23:25.15 | NeoTron | I know it's not 10. I don't think 10 works on my rhel3 correctly |
| 23:26.23 | NeoTron | specifically audio doesn't work without alsa |
| 23:26.41 | NeoTron | and yes I use rhel3 + ff2 and even getting ff2 to work was a pain in the rear |
| 23:26.57 | Codayus | Yeah, doesn't work on Windows, latest everything, because they have done it incredibly wrong. |
| 23:28.06 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (n=Mike@c-68-38-45-3.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 23:29.24 | Codayus | For a completely random example of it vaguely working.... |
| 23:29.27 | Codayus | http://www.mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2009/09/mail-file-to-task |
| 23:30.07 | Codayus | The title ("Mail > File to Task...") is done in Flash, and is copy pastable. ...it's epically pointless of course. |
| 23:30.39 | foxlit | Around here, you can only select text within flash if you select only text within flash |
| 23:30.48 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah, problem |
| 23:30.57 | ScytheBlade1 | That still KILLS my browser focus |
| 23:31.38 | Codayus | foxlit: That's usually acceptable, for titles. Life's full of tradeoffs. Until HTML 5 hits 100% adoption, and then everything will be full of MAGIC AND PUPPIES. |
| 23:31.51 | ScytheBlade1 | Or a static image! |
| 23:31.54 | ScytheBlade1 | Hey there is a thought |
| 23:32.21 | NeoTron | Codayus: so yes that is better. I can copy it but only if I use the menu to copy |
| 23:32.36 | NeoTron | it doesn't work with the normal "mark" => middle click to paste |
| 23:32.44 | NeoTron | so it's not a text equivalent (from a linux point of view) |
| 23:33.24 | Codayus | NeoTron: Heh, works slightly better for me. (And, contra ScytheBlade1, it doesn't actually screw my browser focus either.) ...and honestly, I dislike the technique, and have never used it personally. |
| 23:33.46 | NeoTron | in either case, we can agree that the blizzard site is not well done :P |
| 23:33.50 | Codayus | Oh. |
| 23:33.51 | Codayus | Yes. |
| 23:34.00 | ScytheBlade1 | Highlight some text |
| 23:34.02 | ScytheBlade1 | Press ctrl+w |
| 23:34.07 | ScytheBlade1 | Observe how nothing happens |
| 23:34.15 | NeoTron | and wowarmory.com especially has a history of not only being made badly but often seems to hav ecaused the whole browser to lock up |
| 23:34.26 | NeoTron | mind you, nowadays it typically works but it didn't use to work very well at all |
| 23:34.29 | foxlit | ScytheBlade1: apple-w works for me :) |
| 23:34.37 | Codayus | But that's always the case. You hardly even need to give a link. It's a random amalgamation of coding styles, techniques, languages, incompatible standards, and terrible terrible design. |
| 23:34.53 | Codayus | And wowarmory I think uses flash solely so they can make the search box edge sparkle, IIRC. |
| 23:35.02 | Codayus | That's just wrong. |
| 23:35.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@cpe-67-246-40-12.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 23:35.03 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 23:35.17 | Codayus | ScytheBlade1: Works for me, you fail at stuff. |
| 23:35.18 | NeoTron | I've given up trying to fix the w(orld wide w)eb |
| 23:35.24 | NeoTron | I sigh and move on |
| 23:35.39 | NeoTron | alkthough I still wonder why the heck firefox, even newest ones, can't render pages with a background well |
| 23:36.01 | Lopeppeppy | is that the fault of FF, or of crappy pages that suck? |
| 23:36.26 | NeoTron | pretty sure it's FF |
| 23:36.42 | NeoTron | last it bugged me enough to research it, there was an open bug on it |
| 23:36.58 | NeoTron | mmo-champion used to be affected |
| 23:37.22 | ScytheBlade1 | Codayus: doesn't make flash suck any less. Does that to me on windows and linux |
| 23:37.24 | NeoTron | doesn't seem to be affected anymore but the effect is that scrolling causes the browser to eat all available cpu and move really slowly |
| 23:37.51 | Codayus | NeoTron: I find just trying to USE Firefoxs makes it max out a core and more really slowly. :( |
| 23:38.06 | NeoTron | unfortunately no other option comes with Adblock |
| 23:38.09 | NeoTron | and are thus unusable |
| 23:38.18 | Codayus | I'm trying Opera, seems okay. |
| 23:38.19 | foxlit | "oh noes, advertising" |
| 23:38.32 | NeoTron | foxlit: advertising is >> annoying << |
| 23:38.37 | Codayus | It's adblock implementation is very functional. *shrug* |
| 23:38.39 | NeoTron | videos and animations and blinking crap |
| 23:38.47 | foxlit | mess with hosts if you have to. |
| 23:39.05 | NeoTron | adblock is muc better |
| 23:39.26 | NeoTron | I tried an adblocking proxy and although it removes the adds, it leaves broken image/open spaces around that adblock removes |
| 23:39.30 | foxlit | adblock does nothing outside firefox :) |
| 23:39.34 | NeoTron | indeed |
| 23:39.44 | NeoTron | just saying that for me, it's an essential tool for browins the web |
| 23:39.51 | NeoTron | just like tivo is an essential tool for me to watch tv |
| 23:40.02 | NeoTron | I don't wathc live tv, ever, due to having to suffer through ads |
| 23:40.16 | NeoTron | I'd rather start recording and wait 10 minutes |
| 23:40.32 | foxlit | Meh, your loss. |
| 23:41.10 | NeoTron | my gain :P |
| 23:41.34 | NeoTron | in fact, for tv, I gain 25% of my life back |
| 23:41.45 | Codayus | Better solution: Don't watch tv. |
| 23:41.52 | Lopeppeppy | ... oxymoron if I ever heard one, NeoTron. |
| 23:42.05 | NeoTron | I watch almost no tv |
| 23:42.22 | foxlit | ... To get 6 hours of advertising a day... you'd have to have a time machine. |
| 23:42.23 | NeoTron | in either case, enjoying some entertainment is not a loss |
| 23:42.26 | Lopeppeppy | I don't even have one. o.O |
| 23:42.42 | NeoTron | foxlit: 16 minutes per 60 minutes of TV is ads |
| 23:43.10 | Codayus | Lopeppeppy: Neither. |
| 23:43.10 | NeoTron | so I save ~25% of my tv watching time by not watching ads |
| 23:43.20 | foxlit | != "life" :) |
| 23:43.21 | NeoTron | and my typical tv watching per week is probably less than 3 hours in general |
| 23:50.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Colin__T (n=ColinT@69-11-97-130.regn.static.sasknet.sk.ca) |
