| 00:00.00 | Amarande | You get the key, you start going in every time from the service entrance that lets you skip about half the instance, whammo. |
| 00:00.12 | Dagmar | Well, when you're making increibly wrong statemnets because of your unfamiliarity with the desing of hunter pets, yes we can |
| 00:00.19 | ZorbaBeta | wobin, you want a shiny. It has no in-game effect. You want it because it's shiny, and you want it to be easier for you. You don't want it to be *easy*, though, you just want it to be *slightly easier*. Am I wrong? |
| 00:00.26 | Wobin | It's a shiny yes. |
| 00:00.33 | Wobin | It -has- an ingame effect |
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| 00:00.39 | Dagmar | What part of "it's not a shint" is eluding you |
| 00:00.42 | Amarande | Anyway, I would probably compare Loque's commonality more to the Ashes of Al'ar. |
| 00:00.43 | Dagmar | s/shint/shiny/; |
| 00:00.43 | Wobin | It's -not- the same as any other exotic effect |
| 00:00.50 | ZorbaBeta | dagmar, the point where, if it's *not* a shiny, it *should be made substantially easier* |
| 00:00.57 | Dagmar | All the exotic pets abilities are unique to them |
| 00:01.00 | ZorbaBeta | people seem to hate the idea of just adding a cluster of spirit beasts somewhere |
| 00:01.04 | Amarande | This is because, like I said, you can do Strat as many times as your gear and the maximum number of instances per hour allow. |
| 00:01.08 | Wobin | You kinda fail at understanding the whole point of -exotic- pets |
| 00:01.09 | Dagmar | Then we're in agreement that it should be taken off the list of rare kills then |
| 00:01.30 | Amarande | A raid mount is a better comparison, because a player has only a severely limited number of tries in a given timeframe to get said mount. |
| 00:01.37 | Dagmar | ...because idiots can and will jump in there to try to kill Loque, regardless of whether or not a hunter is currently taming it |
| 00:01.38 | ZorbaBeta | dagmar, no, we're not. I think having super-tough things to find is a Good Thing. I think that finding a particular type of pet should not be too difficult, however. |
| 00:01.57 | ZorbaBeta | wobin, how many exotic pets are actually hard to locate? I seem to recall more than a few are "go to this instance and get one" |
| 00:01.58 | Wobin | Consider those people killing it, STEALING YOUR RAID ID AND STOPPING YOU FROM HARD MODE ULDUAR =P |
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| 00:02.10 | Amarande | Dagmar: remember there's an achievement for getting all rare kills though |
| 00:02.17 | Amarande | there isn't one for getting a spirit beast pet :) |
| 00:02.23 | Wobin | Amarande, -all- rare kills? |
| 00:02.30 | Amarande | Wobin: well, in Northrend or Outland |
| 00:02.30 | ZorbaBeta | wobin, yep |
| 00:02.38 | NightHawkTheSane | Wobin: yes, its the next achievement up from the just-one-kill one |
| 00:02.40 | Dagmar | 'cuz there'd be whining that hunters were being given an unfair advantage due to one specific achievement |
| 00:02.49 | Wobin | exactly |
| 00:02.56 | ZorbaBeta | okay, looking at the list of exotic pets, there is exactly one type that is actually hard to get |
| 00:02.57 | Wobin | which is why Loque should be taken off the rare kill list |
| 00:03.02 | Amarande | Dagmar: then make it a goddamned Feat of Strength |
| 00:03.06 | ZorbaBeta | my position is that it should either be removed from the list of exotic pets, or made easier to get. |
| 00:03.10 | Wobin | cause it'd make the achievements EASIER |
| 00:03.13 | Amarande | they gave warlocks one for having done the classic Dreadsteed quest line, nobody QQ'd |
| 00:03.19 | Dagmar | Amarande: I don't really need barney bucks |
| 00:03.29 | Wobin | So |
| 00:03.31 | Wobin | We agree? |
| 00:03.35 | ZorbaBeta | "exotic pet" doesn't mean "rare spawn", it means "weird pet with specific powers", and I believe it should also mean "generally, common spawn". |
| 00:03.40 | Dagmar | What I'd like is simply non-interference, or at least the removal of player's reasons to trash a taming attempt on a rare spawn |
| 00:03.45 | Wobin | Loque'naq should be taken off the rare npc achievement =P |
| 00:03.46 | ZorbaBeta | And by "easier to get", I mean "add more spirit beasts in the world". |
| 00:03.51 | ZorbaBeta | Not by removing it from the achievement. |
| 00:03.51 | Amarande | (did they also give Paladins one for doing the classic Charger quest line? I haven't done that one in a long while so I don't know) |
| 00:03.57 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 00:04.00 | Dagmar | We're *fine* with some pets being rare |
| 00:04.04 | NightHawkTheSane | so, if i understand this, a great compromise would be to a) take hunter tameable creatures off the rare-kill achievement and b) add the same number of non-tamable rare creatures into the game & achievement? |
| 00:04.08 | Wobin | ZorbaBeta, You clearly fail at being a BM hunter =P |
| 00:04.12 | Dagmar | We're not cool with players having a reason to screw around with hunters and make it even rarer |
| 00:04.14 | ZorbaBeta | wobin, why? |
| 00:04.15 | Amarande | actually, probably the better thing to do would be cut down the spawn timer for rare mobs |
| 00:04.23 | Wobin | NightHawkTheSane, no. All the BMs want is the npc off the list |
| 00:04.25 | Amarande | wouldn't even 2-3 hours between spawns be rare enough for most? |
| 00:04.36 | ZorbaBeta | night, I actually think there's some value in having a rare pet that is also sought after |
| 00:04.37 | Wobin | They -want- the challenge of hunting Loque |
| 00:04.43 | ZorbaBeta | the people who want to go to that much trouble will, you know, do so |
| 00:04.44 | NightHawkTheSane | Wobin: does't waht i said accomplish that,though? |
| 00:04.50 | Wobin | No |
| 00:04.52 | ZorbaBeta | wobin, clearly they don't, though, because they want to make the challenge easier :P |
| 00:04.55 | Amarande | hell, there's plenty of so-called "rare" mobs that are actually there all the time |
| 00:04.59 | ZorbaBeta | they want a different, easier challenge |
| 00:05.02 | Dagmar | There's no "challenge" beyond you have to do it in the middle of the night when no one else is around |
| 00:05.05 | Wobin | Ok, I'll give you that |
| 00:05.07 | Dagmar | It's simply impossible until then |
| 00:05.10 | Amarande | like that Quartermaster that drops the item to start the BWL achievement quest? He's "Rare" |
| 00:05.17 | Dagmar | Someone will kill it the moment they see it, whether you're taming it or not |
| 00:05.17 | NightHawkTheSane | Wobin: er how? |
| 00:05.25 | ZorbaBeta | I propose leaving the existing challenges the way they are, and adding new, easier challenges, for people who want spirit beasts without agony. |
| 00:05.33 | Amarande | then there's that Pyromaster guy in BRD who's basically ALWAYS THERE, despite supposedly being "rare" |
| 00:05.41 | Wobin | all the spirit beasts are painful to get |
| 00:05.45 | Wobin | that's what makes them rewarding |
| 00:05.50 | Amarande | a mob can be rare without having a stupidly long respawn timer |
| 00:05.56 | ZorbaBeta | wobin, so you want them to be less rewarding, then? |
| 00:05.58 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: he was rare, he's no longer rare, hasn't been for a while now |
| 00:06.10 | Amarande | Night: who? |
| 00:06.10 | Wobin | but having someone leap in and -kill- the beast you've been trying to tame is just causing needless angst |
| 00:06.17 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: the dude in brd |
| 00:06.20 | Wobin | consider it -kill stealing- |
| 00:06.27 | Dagmar | I've an idea. Let's make warlocks required to go to a not-very-out-of-the-way place to enthrall their highest rank of demon, and then flag it for all other players to kill with an achievement |
| 00:06.30 | Amarande | Night: he's still marked as 'rare' in his mob stats though |
| 00:06.42 | NightHawkTheSane | so? |
| 00:06.50 | ZorbaBeta | dagmar, if you provide another mechanically equivalent demon somewhere else that's easy, I'd agree entirely. :) |
| 00:06.50 | Amarande | I should know, I've basically eaten, slept, breathed and drunk BRD for the last several days or so :P |
| 00:07.08 | Amarande | And would you believe I STILL haven't gone on a Coren run. LOL |
| 00:07.10 | ZorbaBeta | I think it's a great mechanic if people can go to great trouble for something pretty without ingame effects. Some people want to do that stuff. |
| 00:07.13 | Wobin | ZorbaBeta, Sorry, no =) All your demons are as rare, and equally are on the list =P |
| 00:07.21 | Amarande | I've done basically everything one can do in BRD *but* Coren. :) |
| 00:07.23 | Dagmar | Amarande: Just find four people who haven't done it yet today |
| 00:07.29 | Dagmar | Acutally hell three is plenty |
| 00:07.30 | NightHawkTheSane | aren't spirit beasts not even optimal pets? or did that change AGAIN? |
| 00:07.38 | Dagmar | ...but they may fuss at not having two more shots at something decent |
| 00:07.40 | Amarande | Dagmar: I haven't been back to Dalaran in a while to gather a group |
| 00:07.40 | ZorbaBeta | wobin, *shrug* I think that's a bad mechanic. And, yes, I think the existing spirit beast mechanic is bad as well, I just prefer very different fixes. |
| 00:07.46 | Wobin | NightHawkTheSane, You fail at BM huntering =P |
| 00:07.46 | Amarande | although I do have to make a trip back to northrend tonight |
| 00:08.02 | Amarande | since I ran out of soul shards and there's no convenient spot to get them in Azeroth at 80 like there was that cluster of mobs near Kara at 70 :S |
| 00:08.05 | Wobin | ZorbaBeta, What's the problem with taking Loque off the list of Northrend rare achievemnt? |
| 00:08.14 | NightHawkTheSane | Wobin: Given that I haven't played my hunter in.. 2+ months? and even then he's barely raided, and was my 5th 80.. yeah, i probably do |
| 00:08.28 | Amarande | well, there's that spot in Un'Goro, but I'm pretty sure you can't get there from Azeroth |
| 00:08.37 | NightHawkTheSane | last I heard, though, even for BM, spirit beasts weren't the best for raid dps. but again, i'm likely wrong |
| 00:08.39 | Wobin | ZorbaBeta, How is that a terrible nerf? |
| 00:08.43 | Amarande | not till Cata and flying mounts in Azzy, anyway |
| 00:08.47 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: That doesn't much matter |
| 00:08.50 | ZorbaBeta | wobin, it invalidates massive challenges that other people may have already done, both killing and taming Loque. it removes a Massive Challenge from the game without replacing it with an equivalent Massive Challenge. |
| 00:09.07 | Amarande | Zorba: and yet, WoW is full of such nerfings of challenge |
| 00:09.09 | ZorbaBeta | wobin, what's the problem with leaving Loque on the list of Northrend rare achievements, and adding a small family of spirit beasts elsewhere in the world? |
| 00:09.14 | Amarande | it's something we accept pretty much as the way things are |
| 00:09.17 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: er, what doesn't, and why? |
| 00:09.24 | Amarande | remember the days when it took a 10-man raid to do UBRS? |
| 00:09.28 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, generally, not for shinies, however |
| 00:09.36 | Dagmar | It doesn't matter that they're not the highest faceroll DPS |
| 00:09.38 | Amarande | and now UBRS is pretty easy to solo, with the exception of Drakkisath for some classes |
| 00:09.47 | ZorbaBeta | generally it's a nerf as part of power creep, or a nerf of existing raids to make them a bit easier. They *very* rarely make vanity items significantly easier to get |
| 00:09.54 | Wobin | I challenge you to find a hunter who has tamed Loque who would -complain- that she was taken off the list of rares |
| 00:09.57 | ZorbaBeta | (rivendare being the obvious example where they did) |
| 00:09.58 | Amarande | (sadly, I seem to be a class that can't solo Drakk ... *sigh*) |
| 00:10.07 | Adys | http://images.ucomics.com/comics/ga/2002/ga020924.gif |
| 00:10.18 | Amarande | Zorba: I wouldn't know what the chance Rivendare is supposed to drop the mount was and is :) |
| 00:10.20 | Amarande | I got lucky, heh |
| 00:10.22 | DWSR | Amarande: You're not. |
| 00:10.27 | DWSR | I can do it |
| 00:10.29 | Dagmar | I know I'd be pretty pleased if the next time (if there's a next time) I spot loque some jackass doesn't come and slaughter him before I'm 10 seconds into the tame |
| 00:10.34 | Amarande | by which I'm talking super awesomely people wanted to kill me for it lucky :D |
| 00:10.39 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, it started at, like, 1/10000 or something ridiculous, and now it's at 1/100 |
| 00:10.44 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: eh, to an extent it kind of does. I think if spirit beasts were, by a non-insignificant margin, a superior dps pet, having them be both absurdly rare, and absurdly hunted would be a bad idea. |
| 00:11.02 | NightHawkTheSane | but since it's not, its really just a status symbol, which makes that less of a real mechanical problem |
| 00:11.03 | Amarande | Now the rare shinies are things like the whelpling pets with their 1/1000 drop rates |
| 00:11.06 | ZorbaBeta | nighthawk, I think it absolutely does matter, and yeah, it'd be a terrible idea :) |
| 00:11.11 | Dagmar | What they *do* do is give you another possible tool in the arsenal |
| 00:11.24 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, those are a bit less painful than they sound, though, because they're BoE |
| 00:11.31 | Amarande | indeed, what Night said |
| 00:11.35 | Dagmar | ...and personally, I think the runaway egalitarianism from BC was crap |
| 00:11.36 | ZorbaBeta | notice that most of the ridiculous-drop-rate stuff is BoE, in fact |
| 00:11.44 | Amarande | they try to maintain a distinction now between shinies and actual superiority |
| 00:11.54 | Amarande | hell, even look at Val'anyr, apparently even that's not really all that |
| 00:11.55 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: 'runaway egalitarianism'? |
| 00:12.01 | Amarande | the last time a legendary was apparently really "all that" was the bow from Sunwell |
| 00:12.08 | ZorbaBeta | now, if loque dropped a BoE "Spirit Cub" that a hunter could buy and turn into a lv1 spirit beast pet, that would be awesome :D |
| 00:12.14 | Wobin | Dagmar, Brave brave Sir Robin? |
| 00:12.17 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: Yes, when it basically just did not matter what type of pet you took, because there was at most a 7% difference in anything |
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| 00:12.25 | DWSR | Amarande: Because Thor'idal made its own ammo. |
| 00:12.43 | Amarande | DWSR: it apparently also gave the 15% speed boost without needing an ammo pouch, too |
| 00:12.48 | DWSR | Wobin: Who bravely ran away. |
| 00:12.50 | DWSR | Amarande: Right. |
| 00:12.52 | Dagmar | Like ooo you got a "dps" pet, meaning it does like 5% more damage, but has 5% more health |
| 00:12.58 | DWSR | It wasn't because the stats were good,but the utility was awesome |
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| 00:13.00 | Amarande | not that that's important anymore, since apparently they made the 15% speed boost an inherent feature of Auto Shot |
| 00:13.14 | Dagmar | Amarande: No, it took away the need for the speed boost of the quiver directly |
| 00:13.23 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: ah. Well, I agree that pure egalitarian "it doesn't matter what pet you have" kind of sucks, but the reverse where "one pet is best, qed" is also kinda bad. There's a middle ground that I think they've (reasonably) successfully gotten to |
| 00:13.27 | Dagmar | You get the same speed boost as if you were using a quiver/ammo pouch |
| 00:13.34 | Dagmar | ...meaning *not* 15% at level 20 |
| 00:13.37 | Amarande | Dagmar: say, does Thor'idal still give a 15% boost on top of that? |
| 00:13.41 | ZorbaBeta | nighthawk, it's really the same argument as with class balance |
| 00:13.44 | Amarande | or did they nerf that? |
| 00:13.46 | Dagmar | Amarande: Dunno |
| 00:13.54 | ZorbaBeta | the pure "it doesn't matter what class you are" kind of sucks, but "rogues are best, qed" is also bad. |
| 00:14.09 | Dagmar | Doesn't much matter whether it does or not tho |
| 00:14.11 | ZorbaBeta | provide variations in functionality, not variations in simple effectivenes. |
| 00:14.12 | Amarande | Zorba: that's more something you can blame on players than on Blizzard |
| 00:14.15 | DWSR | Amarande: As Thor'idal's speed bonus was meant so that you didn't need a quiver, I think they would have nerfed it |
| 00:14.16 | NightHawkTheSane | ZorbaBeta: in a way, yeah. Although hunter pets kinda distil the arguemnt down a lot |
| 00:14.26 | Amarande | Blizzard designed the game so you didn't really NEED to be stupidly uber to get through content |
| 00:14.33 | Dagmar | It doesn't stack |
| 00:14.36 | Dagmar | It apparently never stacked |
| 00:14.38 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, yogg+0 |
| 00:14.39 | Dagmar | It's in the tooltip |
| 00:14.48 | Amarande | however, PLAYERS tend to want to bring uber folks, because they want things to be easy |
| 00:14.58 | ZorbaBeta | WoW has never been harder and yet still beatable than it was immediately before 3.2 (alright, 3.2 made it easier) |
| 00:14.59 | Amarande | Players seem to be severely allergic to challenges, in fact |
| 00:15.02 | Dagmar | I'd phrase that much more pessimistically |
| 00:15.06 | Amarande | except for bleeding edge raid guilds anyway |
| 00:15.17 | Amarande | and really there are not all that many of those |
| 00:15.31 | Dagmar | "Players want to bring uber folks so they can't screw up the raid by themselves" |
| 00:16.00 | Amarande | which is probably why I tend to get so annoyed as a DPS |
| 00:16.11 | Amarande | there is one very significant problem with being DPS in this light |
| 00:16.26 | Dagmar | That no one's capable of simple math? |
| 00:16.32 | Amarande | Dagmar: this is the fact that "uber" for tanks and healers, can't really be measured numerically in any significant way. |
| 00:16.42 | Dagmar | ...or that they think a testing framework is something you hang a sketch in |
| 00:16.44 | DWSR | yes it can. |
| 00:16.44 | Amarande | On the other hand, you can pretty easily with a simple addon measure how uber your DPS are. It's called recount. :| |
| 00:16.52 | DWSR | Amarande: That's a lie. |
| 00:17.04 | DWSR | I can tell directly how good or bad a tank is by the level of gear that they have and what guild that they're in |
| 00:17.08 | DWSR | Good guilds don't carry bad tanks. |
| 00:17.10 | Dagmar | There's actually ways to measure healer effectiveness, but Recount isn't it |
| 00:17.16 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 00:17.19 | Amarande | Dagmar: the thing though is |
| 00:17.28 | Amarande | healer effectiveness is pretty black and white |
| 00:17.34 | DWSR | no it's not. |
| 00:17.37 | NightHawkTheSane | not really |
| 00:17.41 | ScytheBlade1 | No it is not |
| 00:17.47 | Amarande | when the healer is bad, people die. when the healer is good, people don't die (unless it's an encounter like Vael where people are doomed to die no matter how good your healers are). |
| 00:17.49 | DWSR | Here comes the QQ train. |
| 00:17.51 | ScytheBlade1 | No |
| 00:17.53 | mikma | http://matin.maapallo.org/site.pl/selain/?c=pvp&i=1709 |
| 00:17.58 | DWSR | Amarande: Not true. |
| 00:17.59 | Amarande | and that's really all you need to know about healers. |
| 00:18.02 | ScytheBlade1 | People die under competent healers, because people are stupid |
| 00:18.04 | Dagmar | NotLarry was looking at some thing yesterday that I can't remember the name of that showed DPS, HPS, and most importantly, a graph of the two together showing the _volume of overlap_ |
| 00:18.05 | ScytheBlade1 | ........................................... |
| 00:18.07 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: entirely incorrect |
| 00:18.08 | Amarande | do they let people die? yes? they're bad then. :) |
| 00:18.10 | DWSR | What SB1 said. |
| 00:18.12 | ScytheBlade1 | ........................................... |
| 00:18.13 | DWSR | Amarande: No. |
| 00:18.17 | DWSR | Good healers let bad DPS die. |
| 00:18.24 | Dagmar | dwsr++ |
| 00:18.25 | kd3 | ^ |
| 00:18.26 | DWSR | It's a rule in our raids. If you want to stand in _____, you don't get heals. |
| 00:18.30 | NightHawkTheSane | good healers keep good players alive. thats all. ;) |
| 00:18.30 | Amarande | okay, do they let IMPORTANT people like the MAIN TANK die? yes? they're bad then. |
| 00:18.31 | kd3 | good healers let people standing in fire die |
| 00:18.32 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, you could say the same thing about DPS |
| 00:18.46 | ZorbaBeta | it's pretty black and white |
| 00:18.46 | ZorbaBeta | does the end boss die? if so, they're good |
| 00:18.47 | Amarande | otherwise, they're okay. it's pretty black and white. |
| 00:18.47 | ZorbaBeta | if it doesn't, they're bad. see, black and white |
| 00:18.56 | Dagmar | It's almost never black and white |
| 00:18.57 | ScytheBlade1 | Dead honest question |
| 00:19.10 | ScytheBlade1 | Have you -ever- been in position of a raid lead in a 25 man? |
| 00:19.10 | NightHawkTheSane | nothing is really ever black and white |
| 00:19.12 | Amarande | again, exceptions of course for mobs like Vaelastrasz which have "you're doomed" attacks. |
| 00:19.12 | Dagmar | Just the whole issue of "why did you not move out of the stuff" makes things ugly |
| 00:19.31 | Dagmar | Should the healer finish the cast and expect someone else to heal them or should they move |
| 00:20.09 | Dagmar | Can anyone even tell after the fact whether or not the tank was in any serious danger at that time? |
| 00:20.10 | ScytheBlade1 | chose a very bad time to alt+tab back to irc, it would seem |
| 00:20.10 | DWSR | Dagmar: I look at it this way. |
| 00:20.10 | DWSR | Sometimes that stuff happens. |
| 00:20.10 | Dagmar | I know |
| 00:20.10 | Amarande | Zorba: in which case, I've been an excellent plus one DPS just about everywhere I've gone. :) |
| 00:20.10 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: lets not forget the "no one's fault but something went wrong, and i have to choose who to let die.." situations >.> |
| 00:20.22 | Dagmar | Try telling that to "hardcore" raiders who'll simply say stupid things like "if the tank loses aggro he sucks" |
| 00:20.27 | Amarande | I think the only time I've ever possibly really dropped the ball is the Brann event in Halls of Stone |
| 00:20.30 | DWSR | But if people die a *lot* and blame it on the fact that if they didn't move <insert bad thing here> would happen, you have something else wrong. |
| 00:20.37 | Adys | Amarande: that is complete load of bullcrap |
| 00:20.44 | Adys | when people die, THEY suck, not the healer |
| 00:20.44 | Amarande | however, on the other hand, I still, meters-wise, only pull 2000-2500 DPS. This means I don't get into the 10-man PUG raids that want 3k+. |
| 00:20.51 | Dagmar | Amarande: I dunno. That one's pretty easy so long as you don't stand in the eyebeams hehehe |
| 00:20.55 | Amarande | Adys: including MTs? |
| 00:20.56 | DWSR | Amarande: I wouldn't take you. |
| 00:21.06 | Adys | and it is in an encounter like vael where you actually see whether healers are bad |
| 00:21.08 | DWSR | Sorry, but no excuses to do less than 3k with the welfare epix that you can get now. |
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| 00:21.17 | NightHawkTheSane | Adys: thats just not always the case. it often is, but not always |
| 00:21.19 | Amarande | keeping the MT alive is basically the healer's #1 duty, in general |
| 00:21.24 | ScytheBlade1 | sighs |
| 00:21.25 | ScytheBlade1 | Okay |
| 00:21.25 | Adys | I dont care about not always |
| 00:21.28 | Adys | I dont care about often |
| 00:21.29 | Dagmar | I generally expect that things WILL go wrong (because I play with Murphy) and whether or not you're any good comes down to how well you cope |
| 00:21.32 | Adys | and Amarande no |
| 00:21.39 | ScytheBlade1 | If this conversation is to continue, there really cannot be any more absolutes mentioned |
| 00:21.43 | Adys | the healer's role is the one he's been assigned |
| 00:21.50 | ScytheBlade1 | If X then Y <-- none of that, EVERYTHING is going to be a shade of grey |
| 00:21.50 | Dagmar | The guild leader was messaging two of us last night while we were doing ToC in the paladin trash pull |
| 00:21.51 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: thats generally the core of it |
| 00:21.58 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: good players cope well with bad situations. :P |
| 00:22.11 | Dagmar | Thanks to trying to respond to him, the pally tank attacked the wrong mob, and I wound up sending my monkey after the wrong group of trash entirely |
| 00:22.19 | Dagmar | Because we're hardcore, we recovered. |
| 00:22.32 | Dagmar | It was a little crazy for awhiel there with all the running and screaming |
| 00:22.50 | Dagmar | ...btu I've not run a pug in weeks that would have been able to handle either one of those events, let alone two |
| 00:22.54 | ScytheBlade1 | Amarande: okay. Just last night, I was healing 10 man Ulduar. We were doing general, non hardmode. As a healer, the tank died, no less than 7 times |
| 00:23.00 | ScytheBlade1 | Amarande: and your logic puts me at fault |
| 00:23.16 | ScytheBlade1 | yes? |
| 00:23.29 | Dagmar | Did you have a spare tank? :) |
| 00:23.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Nope |
| 00:23.37 | Dagmar | ouch |
| 00:23.37 | NightHawkTheSane | i always keep a spare tank in my pocket |
| 00:23.37 | ScytheBlade1 | Wiped every time the tank died |
| 00:23.46 | Dagmar | Which fight was that then>? |
| 00:23.52 | ScytheBlade1 | General Vewhatever |
| 00:23.52 | NightHawkTheSane | general, he said :P |
| 00:23.55 | Dagmar | If you say "Flame Leviathan" I'm going to call shens |
| 00:23.57 | ZorbaBeta | my guild's trying ToTC-25 heroic lately. I died quite a few times. Healer fault? Nope, my fault, I was incorrectly specialized for the fight. |
| 00:23.57 | NightHawkTheSane | vezeax |
| 00:23.58 | ScytheBlade1 | No mana regen |
| 00:23.59 | NightHawkTheSane | vezax* |
| 00:24.00 | ScytheBlade1 | that |
| 00:24.14 | ZorbaBeta | sometimes fault is difficult to pin. |
| 00:24.28 | ScytheBlade1 | is still curious if he'll get an answer |
| 00:24.32 | ZorbaBeta | the old "healer dies, tank's fault. tank dies, healer's fault. dps dies, their own fault" statement is reasonably accurate, but nowhere near 100%. |
| 00:24.33 | NightHawkTheSane | unlikely :) |
| 00:24.35 | Dagmar | Generally fault is unnecessary to pin on anyone because there was usually someone else who *might* have been able to intervene but didn't |
| 00:24.47 | Dagmar | There's always enough to go round so there's no need to be stingy with it |
| 00:24.59 | Adys | this is why when you wipe, you NEVER try to pinpoint whose fault it is |
| 00:25.08 | Dagmar | I roll for blame. |
| 00:25.10 | Adys | as long as you know what is wrong, you go on and keep trying |
| 00:25.11 | NightHawkTheSane | I think my favorite 'someone dies but who's fault is it' is in kologarn-10, 1 healer gripped, another fleeing eyebeams >.> |
| 00:25.14 | ScytheBlade1 | Adys: eh, depends on the group to be honest. |
| 00:25.17 | ZorbaBeta | adys, but you *do* try to figure out what went wrong, otherwise you never get better ;) |
| 00:25.18 | Dagmar | Lowest roller is the one who caused it all |
| 00:25.23 | Adys | ZorbaBeta: ofc |
| 00:25.34 | ZorbaBeta | (something I wish my guild would learn :( ) |
| 00:25.53 | Dagmar | Kologran-10 is NASTY |
| 00:25.55 | Dagmar | hehe |
| 00:26.03 | NightHawkTheSane | depends on your luck ;) |
| 00:26.19 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI (n=KarlKFI@ip68-231-217-61.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 00:28.14 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: It's doubly-brutal when everyone's fatigued from doing all the other fights before him |
| 00:28.35 | Dagmar | You coudl tell half our people were in brain-fry mode by the time we got there |
| 00:29.09 | Dagmar | If you're all "undergeared" you MUST completely focus on each fight or you just wipe and wipe and wipe |
| 00:29.57 | ScytheBlade1 | oh man, you know what sounds good now? |
| 00:29.57 | ScytheBlade1 | Some classic xbox |
| 00:29.57 | ScytheBlade1 | afk |
| 00:29.57 | Dagmar | We had some newbs come back from wherever this week and they don't want to touch HToC |
| 00:30.01 | Dagmar | Tomorrow afternoon, I'm taking them through it and hopefully none of them will realize I set it to Heroic |
| 00:31.44 | NightHawkTheSane | I stil haven't done any of the new 3.2 instances >.> |
| 00:31.52 | NightHawkTheSane | i haven't seriously played since it was released |
| 00:31.56 | Dagmar | It wouldn't be the first time such a stunt's been pulled |
| 00:32.10 | Dagmar | We got all the way to the first boss in the bug quarter of Naxx with it set to 25-man |
| 00:32.18 | Dagmar | The two extra guys kind of gave it away |
| 00:32.28 | NightHawkTheSane | Hah, thats pretty impressive |
| 00:32.45 | NightHawkTheSane | We did that once on accident. Kept wiping face to the trash leading to Raz |
| 00:33.08 | Dagmar | it was brutal the whole way there |
| 00:33.32 | Dagmar | We had one wipe, and a handful of miscellaneous dead rogues (no suprise there) |
| 00:34.05 | NightHawkTheSane | anyway, im heading home. later. |
| 00:34.09 | kd3 | dead rogues? no way |
| 00:34.16 | Dagmar | 10-man was a bloody cakewalk after that |
| 00:35.00 | Amarande | as for being in pugs able to handle mistakes? |
| 00:35.08 | Amarande | let's just say the group I had for H-DTK the other night was top notch |
| 00:35.13 | Amarande | best heroic group I've ever had, pretty much |
| 00:35.17 | Dagmar | Cool. That's rare |
| 00:35.34 | Dagmar | I've gotten fussed at and recently for distracting shot in a PUG |
| 00:35.58 | Dagmar | "Yes, I *could* have just let him up and kill the priest I'm sure" |
| 00:37.12 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower (n=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 00:37.12 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ |
| 00:37.14 | Amarande | I still haven't gotten a good chance to go on a WotLK raid yet, though |
| 00:37.20 | Dagmar | I have hopes to finally see the achy for doing HToC without anyone taking damage from exploding ghouls now that we've got a full complement |
| 00:37.30 | Dagmar | That just doesn't happen in a PUG |
| 00:37.49 | Amarande | heh, I haven't even looked into the heroic achievements lately |
| 00:37.52 | Dagmar | There's always someone standing right in the middle of everything admiring how large the ghouls get |
| 00:37.56 | Arrowmaster | my 360 has been returned..... but now its RRODed..... |
| 00:38.06 | Dagmar | Whoa |
| 00:38.07 | Amarande | we either get them or we don't, I can't remember the last time a group was going specifically for one |
| 00:38.12 | Amarande | Arrow: time to get a PS3 |
| 00:38.15 | Dagmar | The one you got on release day? |
| 00:38.18 | Arrowmaster | i have a PS3 |
| 00:38.24 | Amarande | time to stick with PC games, then |
| 00:38.24 | Iriel | There aren't any games for a PS3 |
| 00:38.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Pewpewarrows (n=Pewpewar@c-24-126-106-246.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) |
| 00:38.39 | Iriel | Do MS still repair RROD's even when they're past warranty? |
| 00:38.46 | Dagmar | I dunno |
| 00:38.47 | Iriel | (Mine have always failed in a non-RROD manner) |
| 00:38.47 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: yes |
| 00:38.50 | Dagmar | I know they extended it considerably |
| 00:38.58 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: Well, that kinda sucks |
| 00:38.59 | Arrowmaster | mine past that extension |
| 00:39.10 | Arrowmaster | but it might be recoverable since its a release day one |
| 00:39.11 | Dagmar | ...it had a good run at least |
| 00:39.25 | Amarande | I'm not sure what the out of warranty repair bill for a 360 is |
| 00:39.28 | Arrowmaster | the first version RRODed on temporary errors |
| 00:39.41 | Amarande | It -might- be worth it, what is the 360 now, still 299? |
| 00:39.49 | Dagmar | Yep |
| 00:39.59 | Arrowmaster | then due to the public view of the RROD they made later versions not RROD on those temporary errors |
| 00:40.01 | Amarande | if it's less than 200 to repair, then it's worth it I guess. :) |
| 00:40.03 | Dagmar | You could spend a long time on the phone before you get underwater on that |
| 00:40.21 | Amarande | I've never had a console break that I had to call support about since one of my PS2's bit it |
| 00:40.35 | Arrowmaster | i was going to purchase the new 250gb modern warfare 2 version anyway in november |
| 00:40.40 | Amarande | and in *that* case I just up and bought a new console since it was like ... 149 at the time for a PS2 and the repair bill would have been 103 + shipping on my dime |
| 00:41.27 | Amarande | heh, and also had to go consulting PS2 piracy sites in the meanwhile, pretty much |
| 00:41.34 | Amarande | since my Disgaea disc was still stuck in the dead machine |
| 00:41.49 | Amarande | and I had to pretty much go into 'how to mod your PS2' instructions to figure out how the hell you open the machine to get it out :P |
| 00:43.51 | Amarande | Arrow: take it to someplace like a Play-N-Trade |
| 00:44.12 | Amarande | we have one near where I work, I remember one of the last times I was there someone brought their RROD 360 in |
| 00:44.34 | Amarande | and they were able to tell them on the spot exactly -which- error it was, plus a good estimate as to how likely they'd be able to recover it |
| 00:44.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=Tuller@pool-96-248-0-53.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) |
| 00:45.37 | Arrowmaster | ive never even heard of Play-N-Trade |
| 00:48.10 | Dagmar | Amarande: Tat happens the more often you deal with a particualr piece of gear |
| 00:48.23 | Dagmar | Take it as a bad sign that they had so many failing 360's coming in |
| 00:49.59 | Amarande | heh, I like what someone called Spirit of Redemption on their priest log. :D |
| 00:50.25 | Amarande | "Fail Angel" |
| 00:50.26 | Amarande | lol |
| 00:51.01 | Amarande | that reminds me, my priest is going Disc at 80 and thus will not have fail angel :) |
| 00:51.28 | Amarande | speaking of which |
| 00:51.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (n=Cide@h161n1-far-gr100.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 00:51.29 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 00:51.45 | Amarande | assuming you are not facing an enemy like Vaelastrasz who has unavoidable-death debuffs |
| 00:51.55 | Amarande | whose fault is it generally when the -healer- dies? |
| 00:52.06 | Arrowmaster | its situational |
| 00:52.46 | Amarande | heh, the truly evil thing about Vael too is that even Guardian Spirit won't do. :) |
| 00:53.28 | Arrowmaster | did they change it to a real death touch like event at the end? |
| 00:53.36 | Amarande | Arrow: IIRC it works something like this |
| 00:53.42 | Amarande | GS procs, but the debuff is still there (since you survived) |
| 00:53.54 | Amarande | which means your health is now ... zero out of a maximum *of* zero |
| 00:53.59 | Amarande | which means, since it's zero, well ... yeah |
| 00:54.19 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, I've always preferred calling it "Improved Death" |
| 00:54.22 | Dagmar | It's the healer's fault |
| 00:54.24 | Dagmar | Obviously |
| 00:54.35 | Arrowmaster | used to be a perfectly timed fire pot and last stand could make the warrior survive it |
| 00:55.41 | Amarande | now otoh, Soulstone *does* work against Burning Adrenaline |
| 00:55.54 | Amarande | since when you're soulstoned, you actually die, taking the debuff with you and then you come back okay :) |
| 00:56.05 | foxlit | You lose the fun buff, however. |
| 00:56.27 | Amarande | Some folks have said that if you are using a small group against Vael, and you have a DK, you should SS *them* because apparently DKs are stupidly good against Vael |
| 00:57.51 | Arrowmaster | does the buff make their runes come back sooner or something? |
| 00:58.01 | Arrowmaster | dks dont really have that many abilities that use runic power |
| 00:58.22 | Dagmar | Might just be that they're all OP |
| 00:58.24 | foxlit | but zomg spam frosttrike |
| 00:58.30 | DWSR | ^^\ |
| 00:59.55 | Amarande | Arrow: apparently Vael as a DK means that you're basically a DK with unlimited runic power |
| 01:00.14 | Arrowmaster | and? |
| 01:00.37 | Amarande | I had a followup thought on that, that got lost in my groan as the Yankees scored AGAIN |
| 01:00.53 | Amarande | bah, I'm tired of that game, I'm turning off the TV |
| 01:01.05 | Amarande | ah yes, if I remember there's an ability frost DKs use a lot that's basically spammable if you have unlimited RP |
| 01:01.09 | Amarande | but I can't remember which one it was :S |
| 01:01.10 | Hjalte | Amarande: Everyone has unlimited power on Vael? |
| 01:01.14 | Amarande | it's been too long since I seriously played DK |
| 01:01.22 | Amarande | Hjalte: pretty much, yeah |
| 01:01.29 | Amarande | you get a buff that gives you stupidly fast regeneration |
| 01:01.30 | Hjalte | I just did it with 3 people |
| 01:01.43 | Hjalte | Druid tank and 2 dps |
| 01:01.57 | foxlit | Nah, you still have to alternate abilities. |
| 01:01.59 | Hjalte | They weren't very well geared though, maybe we could have duo'ed it with someone in t9 |
| 01:02.11 | Amarande | haha ... I think you guys will love this one: |
| 01:02.12 | Amarande | http://forthebubbles.wordpress.com/2009/09/11/flowchart-friday-4/ |
| 01:02.14 | foxlit | It's only 20 rp/sec, which isn't enough to spam RP-abilities. |
| 01:02.17 | tem | I can't stand it when people invite you to a group without talking to you first |
| 01:02.25 | tem | s/people/people you don't know/ |
| 01:02.43 | Amarande | tem: when do folks do that? it's been a while since I've had someone random invite me |
| 01:02.54 | foxlit | When you're in LFG. |
| 01:03.11 | Amarande | foxlit: shortsighted LFG design, perhaps |
| 01:03.17 | foxlit | Some people tend to skip the "Hey, want to go to X?" step. |
| 01:03.31 | Amarande | foxlit: I suppose people assume that's already the case by the fact that they're *in* the LFG for X |
| 01:03.51 | Amarande | I could probably find some specific way to blame this on the way the LFG interface is designed but meh |
| 01:03.59 | foxlit | Amarande: That has limitations. |
| 01:04.06 | Amarande | I can't remember the last time I've used LFG especially much though. |
| 01:04.23 | tem | when's the last time you did a heroic? |
| 01:04.30 | Amarande | Usually, when I'm in a group, it's a group of 3 or 4 and we can't find a tank or healer anywhere in LFG :S |
| 01:04.37 | Amarande | tem: this week? |
| 01:04.44 | foxlit | The actual question is "Hey, do you want to go to X with me?", and you could be looking for multiple instances. |
| 01:04.46 | tem | and you didn't use lfg? |
| 01:05.00 | Amarande | tem: someone was LFM for the daily in /2, so I responded |
| 01:05.14 | foxlit | doesn't respond to /2 LFMs on principle. |
| 01:05.25 | Amarande | we tried the LFG for a ... forget if it was a tank or healer, and failed |
| 01:05.25 | tem | *shrug* maybe it's not evolved this way on every server |
| 01:05.34 | Amarande | so I had to do a lot of /who 80 (class) and /who 80 (zone) and various random conversations :S |
| 01:05.36 | tem | but on mine we consider it polite to ask before inviting |
| 01:06.03 | tem | I consider that pretty rude as well |
| 01:06.50 | Amarande | foxlit: I don't respond to them much either |
| 01:07.02 | Amarande | mainly because in most cases I keep finding that the group is full so stupidly fast that even responding in 5-10 seconds is too late |
| 01:07.09 | tem | I don't want to get a tell from someone I don't know when I'm doing my dailies or working on addon or whatever asking me to go tank something for them |
| 01:07.13 | Amarande | especially if they are looking for DPS, which would be what I'd respond to |
| 01:07.30 | Amarande | tem: generally, first I ask them if they're busy :) |
| 01:07.43 | tem | I have different levels of busy |
| 01:07.57 | ZorbaBeta | I actually don't mind people saying "hey, want to go do X" |
| 01:08.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Tepel (n=Tepel@cc624207-a.gorre1.fr.home.nl) |
| 01:08.10 | tem | and tanking a heroic for some joker who got me out of /who is pretty low on the priority queue |
| 01:08.14 | ZorbaBeta | it's faster than going through the whole "busy" conversation loop, and often I'm afk in the middle of nowhere and don't have access to /2 |
| 01:08.34 | kd3 | wait, wait... people still use /2? |
| 01:09.17 | tem | for LFG? |
| 01:09.19 | tem | all the time |
| 01:09.29 | Amarande | I guess if it was a regular generic heroic it might be different |
| 01:09.33 | Amarande | in this case it was the daily, though |
| 01:09.40 | Amarande | and these days, fairly few folks tend to pass up a good chance to go do the heroic daily |
| 01:09.45 | Amarande | WE HAVE SHINY BADGES .... |
| 01:10.05 | Amarande | like, c'mon, unless you're in a high end raid guild it's not like you've got any other good chance at 2pt9 :) |
| 01:10.12 | NightHawkTheSane | :o google sent a C&D to cyanogen. :( |
| 01:10.31 | tem | what's cyanogen? |
| 01:10.31 | Amarande | Night: cyanogen? |
| 01:10.48 | NightHawkTheSane | cyanogenmod is one of the better custom ROMs for android phones |
| 01:11.59 | Amarande | and google don't like them because? |
| 01:12.36 | Amarande | lemme guess, all kinds of online this-and-thats are now pretty much illegal for most companies to provide due to the wonder of software patents making them exclusive property of the GOOG? |
| 01:12.53 | NightHawkTheSane | as i understand it, the specific issue is with him distributing googles closed-source android apps (market, talk, gmail, maps, youtube, etc) |
| 01:13.01 | Amarande | ah, that. |
| 01:13.09 | NightHawkTheSane | which.. i guess is a fair case |
| 01:13.25 | Amarande | Night: it's generally cases like *this* that make me grumbly about intellectual property. :) |
| 01:13.41 | Codayus | *shrug* Doesn't mean google needed to pursue it. |
| 01:13.52 | Amarande | cases where clearly, the enforcement of IP causes something or other that is actually generally regarded as good to become greatly watered down or destroyed |
| 01:14.08 | Amarande | because apparently, property is considered more important than general awesomeness in life. :| |
| 01:14.13 | NightHawkTheSane | Codayus: *shrug* no, but i think if google wanted to retain any claim to its rights it would have to. even if they worked out a deal with him |
| 01:14.32 | foxlit | NightHawkTheSane: not a trademark. |
| 01:14.35 | Codayus | NightHawkTheSane: Um, don't think so. Copyright and patent laws aren't like trademark laws. |
| 01:14.41 | NightHawkTheSane | oh right. |
| 01:14.50 | NightHawkTheSane | got those mixed up |
| 01:14.58 | Amarande | of course, I'm thinking from the standpoint of a creative human being who tends to appreciate the efforts of other creative human beings, and considers the most important aspect of creating to be, well, the *creating* |
| 01:15.11 | Amarande | as opposed to the business properties that arise from said creating :S |
| 01:15.20 | NightHawkTheSane | still, I can't really fault google for the action. I guess they are justified. |
| 01:15.22 | Amarande | maybe I'm a fool, like I apparently am on so many other topics :S |
| 01:15.53 | Amarande | but yeah, the idea of someone's clearly positive creative work being gutted for the sake of business property is something I always tend to regard as rather evil. |
| 01:16.16 | NightHawkTheSane | Cyanogen's hoping to argue that the devices he's developing for are already android devices, and are thus by default licensed to use the apps in question |
| 01:16.25 | Amarande | (to which I'm sure the usual comment is "Amarande, have you ever run a business?" and yeah, I'll freely admit the answer is no. heh) |
| 01:16.25 | NightHawkTheSane | but *shrug* |
| 01:16.47 | Codayus | Mmm, being *justified* to TAKE an action is really remarkably unrelated to it being a good idea to take an action. |
| 01:17.17 | NightHawkTheSane | very true. but "good" is generally more subjective than "justified" |
| 01:17.23 | Amarande | Codayus: Indeed. Like our earlier discussion. Twenty-five achievement points *justifies* you to kill Loque out from under that hunter taming it. But it's still being a douchebag to do so. :) |
| 01:17.53 | Codayus | NightHawkTheSane: Yes. So? |
| 01:17.58 | foxlit | http://www.go-hero.net/box/gauss.png |
| 01:18.03 | Amarande | (Myself, I tend to take faction into account when making such decisions in game, but I'm not sure if that makes me okay, or just being a part-time douchebag. LOL) |
| 01:18.11 | foxlit | So I want to make something like that outline. |
| 01:18.24 | Codayus | Functioning in the world required making subjective judgements about the world. :) |
| 01:18.30 | foxlit | I woder if that's just gaussian blur on the text. |
| 01:18.48 | NightHawkTheSane | so, generally speaking good is in the eye of the beholder. I'm certain that there are people who think googles actions were 'good'. |
| 01:18.48 | Amarande | As in, I try not to ninja resources or rare mobs out from under my fellow Horde, but doing so to Alliance (unless they're one of the few Alliance I know to be friends of mine who happen to play cross faction) is fair game. |
| 01:19.30 | Dagmar | You could use a gaussian blur, or you could do like people have been doing it for ages and use 9-15 semi-transparent stamps |
| 01:19.36 | NightHawkTheSane | Justification, being less subjective, means that its more likely more people are going to agree on it. All I'm saying is that I think they're justified, and am not making a particular statement about goodness. |
| 01:20.02 | Amarande | Another example of justified vs. good: |
| 01:20.30 | Amarande | A few years ago it apparently made front page news in NYC, this guy stopped his car because he saw a pedestrian choking and wanted to give them the Heimlich. |
| 01:20.31 | Dagmar | As to the android thing, the last thing they need right now on that platform is it becoming fragmented |
| 01:20.38 | Amarande | His reward for being a hero was a ticket for parking improperly. :| |
| 01:20.54 | kd3 | that sounds par for the course for the traffic cops in nyc |
| 01:20.55 | Amarande | I'm sure it was justified by NYC laws to give him a ticket, but at all a good idea? :| |
| 01:20.57 | tem | Amarande, being a douche to a hunter is worth way more than 25 achievement points |
| 01:20.59 | Dagmar | Amarande: That's called "a cop being a dork" |
| 01:21.12 | kd3 | ~tem++ |
| 01:21.15 | Amarande | Dagmar: yeah, that was also during the height of the New York summons abuse regime, too |
| 01:21.28 | Amarande | the Post was pretty much running an extended expose on ridiculous ticketing |
| 01:21.29 | Dagmar | I am pretty sure if he showed up in court and told the judge "I'm sorry I didn't want to park there but I needed to keep someone from dying" they'd expunge the ticket on the spot |
| 01:21.29 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: it wasn't really fragmenting the platform, though. And the C&D isn't even related to taht. I mean, if he wanted to he could still distribute his mod without those closed-source google apps.. :P |
| 01:21.33 | NightHawkTheSane | at least, as i understand it |
| 01:21.38 | tem | why is that I hate hunters? |
| 01:21.52 | tem | almost as much as blood elf ret paladins |
| 01:21.54 | NightHawkTheSane | tem: because you're normal? :P |
| 01:21.54 | Amarande | I don't know if he actually had to pay the ticket, but the fact that he GOT the ticket was just kinda stupid anyway. |
| 01:22.00 | Amarande | tem: well, I'll say this |
| 01:22.08 | Amarande | you'll never get to kill Loque while MY hunter is taming him :) |
| 01:22.16 | Amarande | there is a simple reason for this, heh |
| 01:22.18 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: Distributing someone else's closed-source stuff outside of their channels has always been a no-no tho |
| 01:22.39 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: right, which leads me to my original statement that I can understand googles actions. :P |
| 01:22.41 | Dagmar | Amarande: You know how to enable non-consensual PvP? |
| 01:22.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Brunera (i=lasseb@colargol.tihlde.org) |
| 01:22.57 | tem | Amarande, to be quite honest, you irritake the hell out of me. I would relish the privelige to ruin your day, and then feel pretty terrible about it later. |
| 01:23.12 | NightHawkTheSane | tem: you'd actually feel bad about it? |
| 01:23.22 | Amarande | Dagmar: I'm MM. If I dual spec at all, I will most likely use it for Survival, in order to have such a spec available for situations in which traps are particularly important. |
| 01:23.33 | Amarande | Since you need to be a 51+ point BM in order to tame a spirit beast ... yeaaaah. |
| 01:23.44 | Dagmar | I'm pretty sure that if they don't tkae Loque off the list if they made it so when taming him if you have the tap the other person got flagged PvP FFA the problem would generally take care of itself |
| 01:24.07 | Corrodias | what he's saying is that he doesn't intend to tame the mob |
| 01:24.07 | Corrodias | in a very ridiculous manner |
| 01:24.07 | tem | NHTS, *shrug* despite all attempts to remove it, my concience is still there |
| 01:24.07 | Dagmar | ...and I say FFA because if someone on my side started to jack a Horde hunter who was taming Loque, I'd kill them myself. |
| 01:24.18 | NightHawkTheSane | tem: you need to get that looked at. |
| 01:24.33 | Amarande | Night: heh |
| 01:24.37 | Dagmar | tem: Allow me to introduce you to my friend, Jack Daniels. |
| 01:24.39 | Dagmar | Problem solved. |
| 01:24.48 | NightHawkTheSane | ~Dagmar++ |
| 01:25.24 | ScytheBlade1 | Then he'd just feel terrible AND hung over |
| 01:25.31 | Amarande | Scythe: Shhh. |
| 01:25.41 | NightHawkTheSane | hungover? you're doing it wrong :P |
| 01:25.47 | ScytheBlade1 | Still curious if you'll answer either of my questions :P |
| 01:25.51 | Dagmar | Again, more Jack Daniels is needed |
| 01:25.58 | Dagmar | You can't feel bad about things you don't remember. |
| 01:27.42 | Amarande | anyway, tem |
| 01:27.47 | Amarande | I don't think you ever explained why you hate hunters :) |
| 01:28.02 | Amarande | did one misdirect to you during a raid when you were not the tank? :) |
| 01:28.43 | foxlit | Everyone hates hunters -- they do that silly feign death routine rather than dying like real night elves :/ |
| 01:28.55 | NightHawkTheSane | ScytheBlade1: so, no then :) |
| 01:28.59 | tem | that's because I don't know |
| 01:29.08 | tem | I hate hunters |
| 01:29.09 | tem | I just do |
| 01:29.13 | tem | I don't know why |
| 01:29.31 | tem | and I don't really care to |
| 01:29.32 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: i've always held that FD should just set threat to zero, and not actually remove you from combat/threat table :\ |
| 01:29.32 | ScytheBlade1 | NightHawkTheSane: indeed |
| 01:29.32 | tem | they just drone on about huntard things |
| 01:29.35 | tem | that I just don't care to hear |
| 01:29.54 | foxlit | NightHawkTheSane: On second thought, now that shadowmeld works that way, I can sort of abuse it, too. |
| 01:29.59 | foxlit | So long as everyone else dies first. |
| 01:29.59 | Amarande | I'd probably hate hunters and warlocks if I wasn't one of the two myself |
| 01:30.00 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: If it didn't remove you you would get killed anyway |
| 01:30.17 | Dagmar | ...because you'd still be in "the list" after everyone else is dead. |
| 01:30.21 | Amarande | simply because, as a warlock, I know certain stupid pet tricks that non-pet classes don't get to have |
| 01:30.23 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: thats my point... |
| 01:30.25 | tem | this DK tank uses death grip on every pull |
| 01:30.32 | tem | I want to strangle him |
| 01:30.38 | tem | you're doing it wrong, sir |
| 01:30.45 | foxlit | Maybe he likes the pretty flying animation. |
| 01:30.55 | NightHawkTheSane | ^ i know i do. |
| 01:30.57 | NightHawkTheSane | ;) |
| 01:30.58 | Amarande | Most particularly, the ability to grab guarded resource nodes without having to fully clear out the mobs, due to having the pet hold off the mob so I don't get interrupted :) |
| 01:31.02 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: Poor, poor paladin |
| 01:31.09 | tem | oh he also uses D&D single target |
| 01:31.10 | tem | *sigh* |
| 01:31.22 | Amarande | Other classes have to fight the last mob, and then someone else gets to get in and ninja their ore meanwhile. |
| 01:31.22 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: eh? |
| 01:31.37 | Amarande | although apparently ore ninja'ing seems to have subsided, even in places like wintergrasp |
| 01:31.42 | Dagmar | Amarande: They can learn tailoring if they want |
| 01:31.50 | Dagmar | A net will hold a random mob as well as a pet for that long |
| 01:31.51 | Amarande | in wintergrasp, if you're horde, apparently alliance won't ninja your ore :) |
| 01:32.01 | Amarande | instead, they will let you gather the ore, and then they kill you afterwards |
| 01:32.02 | Amarande | heh |
| 01:32.14 | Dagmar | Amarande: No, we're perfectly happy to let you fail to contribute to the enemy's war effort. :) |
| 01:32.38 | Amarande | I remember it being quite an accomplishment to finally get a titanium node without having to die, at one point LOL |
| 01:32.45 | Amarande | let's see ... got one titanium node in WG, then a night elf hunter killed me |
| 01:33.08 | Amarande | tried to get one titanium node in Icecrown and got mobbed the first time I tried to get it, before drilling my way through it |
| 01:33.34 | Amarande | well, actually the icecrown thing was my fault in a somewhat subtle way that I didn't realize was the case until after that particular incident |
| 01:33.42 | Amarande | it was like, the second day or so I was back to WoW after taking a break |
| 01:34.07 | Amarande | and I hadn't remembered to adjust the visibility distance, so I didn't realize there were THAT many mobs around it until after I had landed and was in the process of being attacked by them |
| 01:34.55 | Amarande | (I had also forgotten that the taxi that initially sends you to the Icecrown zeppelin was not a normal taxi but a Vehicle, and thus that my voidwalker wasn't out, either ...) |
| 01:35.15 | ScytheBlade1 | haha |
| 01:35.17 | ScytheBlade1 | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=20131895303&pageNo=3&sid=1#41 |
| 01:36.34 | kd3 | the hell!? |
| 01:37.43 | Shirik | -5 for being obvious. +2 for the 2 people you were actually able to troll. |
| 01:37.43 | Shirik | So 7/10. Not bad |
| 01:37.46 | Shirik | -5 + 2 = 7? |
| 01:38.15 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 01:38.21 | DWSR | Try like -3? |
| 01:38.30 | ScytheBlade1 | I think Shirik just got trolled |
| 01:38.33 | Shirik | :( |
| 01:38.44 | Shirik | oh no I figured it out |
| 01:38.48 | Shirik | 10 - 5 + 2 = 7 |
| 01:39.03 | kd3 | dun-duh-da-tah! |
| 01:39.12 | Thunder_Child | you start at a full troll? |
| 01:39.50 | Shirik | maybe? |
| 01:39.54 | Shirik | Ask Fisker, he's a professional |
| 01:41.05 | Thunder_Child | if only he could get paid to do it |
| 01:41.33 | Shirik | !g troll services |
| 01:41.34 | batbot | Shirik: HP, Nokia sign on with anti-patent-troll service (Corporate Dealmaker) <http://www.thedeal.com/corporatedealmaker/2009/07/hp_nokia_sign_on_with_anti-pat.php> |
| 01:45.40 | Corrodias | which wouldn't be necessary if patent laws were sensical |
| 01:45.53 | Thunder_Child | !g professional trolls |
| 01:45.54 | batbot | Thunder_Child: Professional trolls* | The Mix | alternet <http://www.alternet.org/blogs/themix/37619/> |
| 01:45.58 | Amarande | Corrodias: exactly |
| 01:46.20 | Amarande | IP law is designed to protect the value of things for companies at pretty much the cost of any other thing that might cross said value :| |
| 01:46.29 | Amarande | as for why I say 'for companies' |
| 01:46.46 | Amarande | yes, I'm aware that individuals can own IP, especially copyright. I create things, I know I get the copyright to them once I create them. :) |
| 01:47.15 | Amarande | but, really, the vast majority of the real power that IP law gives is something that only giant corporations (and maybe people who won the lotto) can afford to actually use. |
| 01:47.52 | Amarande | most individuals owning IP, in today's expensive legal world, are probably lucky if they can even protect what they own from simple infringement, especially on the part of corporations who can easily outlast them in a battle of financial attrition |
| 01:48.17 | Amarande | is this really fair? |
| 01:48.43 | Amarande | I can't say it is, and it's good that *some* companies like HP and Nokia have apparently gotten something of a clue that it isn't. :) |
| 01:49.01 | DWSR | Not to interrupt. |
| 01:49.04 | DWSR | But who gives a shit? |
| 01:49.05 | Shirik | yeah well |
| 01:49.06 | DWSR | ;) |
| 01:49.15 | Shirik | the Microsoft Word appeal happened like 2 days ago |
| 01:49.19 | Shirik | interesting to see how that goes ;) |
| 01:49.57 | Amarande | Unless we're going to bring out the epic gear argument, which is that only business entities of various sizes generally have a real NEED to protect and squeeze that much value out of their IP, while the individual amateur creator doesn't. |
| 01:50.22 | Amarande | Kinda like how most people who complain they don't get access to top epic shinies don't raid often enough that they usually see content where you really need the power that those shinies give you. |
| 01:51.25 | DWSR | Shirik: Link?\ |
| 01:52.54 | Amarande | *Do* corporations perhaps deserve larger suites of rights due to the amount of people they support and the need to make enough money to do so? |
| 01:53.02 | Shirik | http://government.zdnet.com/?p=5494 for an example |
| 01:53.07 | Shirik | you can just google news "word patent" |
| 01:53.09 | Amarande | Even if fairness instinct suggests that everyone should have the same rights? |
| 01:53.36 | Shirik | Amarande: How do you think they got there? |
| 01:53.46 | Shirik | (playing devil's advocate) |
| 01:53.51 | DWSR | Amarande: You're currently doing what I like to call "thought wanking". |
| 01:53.54 | Amarande | Shirik: depends on the corporation, actually :) |
| 01:54.04 | Amarande | some got there through coming up with something good and aggressively nurturing it |
| 01:54.10 | Amarande | although, on the other hand, I'm sure a lot of them just got lucky, too |
| 01:54.12 | NightHawkTheSane | sometimes.. i wonder how long it would take him to notice if Amarande got forwarded to his own private channel instead of here. |
| 01:54.23 | Amarande | actually, in a way, almost EVERY major corporation got lucky at some point |
| 01:54.39 | Amarande | given that some stupidly high percentage of the businesses that are started in the world fail in their first year or so |
| 01:54.46 | Shirik | set mode +fb #amarande amarande!*@* |
| 01:54.59 | kd3 | lol |
| 01:55.04 | Amarande | :p |
| 01:55.34 | Shirik | I'm not sure I agree with that Amarande |
| 01:56.04 | Shirik | I have a friend whose uncle is a very big entrepreneur. He starts companies and then sells them off for a bunch of money. |
| 01:56.10 | Shirik | And these are things that deserve to be bought off for that kind of money |
| 01:56.21 | Shirik | But his trick is it doesn't "fall in their lap" |
| 01:56.27 | Shirik | he's actively looking at "what do people need right now" |
| 01:56.29 | Amarande | Shirik: there are a very, very small number of people in the world who probably do have that knack |
| 01:57.05 | Amarande | that's probably why so many successful companies are lucky. I suspect most people start a business based on a passion, and if it's successful, it's because they're lucky enough that that passion coincides with what the market needed at the time |
| 01:57.23 | Amarande | I'm sure only a very few do it the way that your friend's uncle does. |
| 01:57.58 | Amarande | Especially given that I'd expect most people with that kind of a knack to be scooped up by Fortune 500 companies to do executive work. I'm surprised your friend's uncle hasn't been. |
| 01:58.25 | Dagmar | Not to rain on anyone's parade or anything, but there's another group of people who work using that business model |
| 01:58.27 | Dagmar | Two actually. |
| 01:58.33 | Dagmar | Prostitutes and drug dealers. |
| 01:58.49 | Amarande | Dagmar: this is probably why drug dealers are so impossible to root out of communities, unfortunately |
| 01:59.28 | Shirik | wtf |
| 01:59.30 | Amarande | (Prostitutes, too, but apart from the dangers related to STDs, I'm not especially sure there's particularly much in the way of *absolutely* positive about going to too much effort to root those out) |
| 01:59.31 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: i suppose there's a reason prostitution is called the oldest proffession. |
| 01:59.31 | Shirik | one of my servers is down |
| 01:59.34 | NightHawkTheSane | profession* |
| 01:59.34 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1 |
| 01:59.36 | Shirik | what did you do |
| 01:59.39 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: EXACTLY. :) |
| 01:59.55 | Shirik | I wonder if it's a coincidence that the server that went down is the Windows one |
| 02:00.13 | Dagmar | Quick, notify PCWorld! |
| 02:00.23 | Dagmar | There's an outage! They need to know so they can villify Google |
| 02:00.35 | NightHawkTheSane | and i imagine drug dealing would also be, if the concept of restricting harmful substances weren't a more modern development (i think? might be wrong here) |
| 02:00.42 | Shirik | problem is |
| 02:00.48 | Shirik | I can't even log in to the server to fix it :< |
| 02:00.53 | Shirik | I'm going to have to drive over there |
| 02:00.57 | Dagmar | VIPS |
| 02:01.21 | Dagmar | Oh not a virtual server then |
| 02:01.32 | Dagmar | I'm not going to ask why you're not going in through the RSA card |
| 02:01.38 | Dagmar | we have admins _here_ who have yet to get that clue |
| 02:02.17 | Dagmar | I'm tired of sayin "Why yes you'll have problems rebooting the machine when you've elected to use the RSA port for normal stuff" |
| 02:02.26 | Shirik | RSA card? |
| 02:02.43 | Dagmar | Yeah some of the newer servers are basically coming with something akin to Sun's openbios on them |
| 02:02.44 | NightHawkTheSane | >.> |
| 02:02.48 | Amarande | Night: I suspect it's more that the economics and scientific knowledge related to modern drug dealing are mostly modern |
| 02:03.01 | NightHawkTheSane | So this summer my mom met Ken Burns.. and didn't realize he was the "Ken Burns Effect" ken burns. |
| 02:03.02 | Dagmar | Unless the machine is literally on fire, you get a teeny-weeny host you can shell into and power cycle it, reboot it, halt the CPU, etc |
| 02:03.05 | NightHawkTheSane | sighs |
| 02:03.31 | Shirik | I'm debating whether or not it's my ISP's fault |
| 02:03.35 | Amarande | most drugs depend on efficient global travel to get from where they grow to where they're sold |
| 02:03.39 | Shirik | oh well |
| 02:03.40 | Amarande | the ones that don't are generally synthetic, and needed scientific knowledge people didn't have back in the days when they thought you could turn lead into gold by finding the philosopher's stone and other such mumbo jumbo |
| 02:03.42 | Shirik | guess I'm going to have to go there |
| 02:03.42 | Shirik | bbl |
| 02:03.52 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: So it took her awhile to figure out why he kept kinda drifting around the room while talking to her? |
| 02:04.30 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: haha |
| 02:04.40 | Dagmar | Amarande: Weed needs to travel? |
| 02:05.15 | Dagmar | I mean, I can see why some of the stuff from Humbolt County would be priority, but you have to pracically spray to stop it growing in other places once it's started |
| 02:05.42 | NightHawkTheSane | beer never needs to travel, beer is everywhere. |
| 02:07.41 | Dagmar | _Artificial_ drugs require strange circumstance, so they benefit from economy of scale, hence the need for efficient distribution channels. |
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| 02:07.46 | Dagmar | Mushrooms and some other things just require hippies |
| 02:07.47 | Dagmar | ...which are not known for their efficiency. |
| 02:07.47 | Dagmar | (...or reliability, or hygiene for that matter) |
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| 02:12.27 | Amarande | Dagmar: I suspect back in the day, not all that many folks knew the difference between mushrooms that caused you to high and ones that just caused you to die, though :) |
| 02:12.54 | Amarande | Plus I suspect hallucinogenics weren't especially popular in the days when tripping out would make people think you were a witch and want to burn you at the stake. |
| 02:13.37 | Dagmar | Tell that to St. Vitus breadmakers |
| 02:14.27 | Dagmar | I am pretty sure that people "back in the day" had a more interactive approach to dinner, being that there wasn't really a Kroger's you could go buy things in individually wrapped and tested for toxins |
| 02:14.43 | NightHawkTheSane | I have trouble believing that people couldn't figure out that "bob ate this mushroom.. and died... bill ate this mushroom and had a crazy vision quest. i wonder which one i'll eat' |
| 02:14.51 | Dagmar | You either knew what you were looking at was edible, or you knew you were taking your chances |
| 02:14.56 | Amarande | Night: depends on the culture |
| 02:15.00 | NightHawkTheSane | shit, people have been using hallucinogenic substances for fucking ever |
| 02:15.04 | Dagmar | Yep |
| 02:15.06 | Amarande | which is probably why it caught on with Native Americans, for instance, and not with Europeans. |
| 02:15.15 | Dagmar | For that reason I imagine the "good" ones were ones people could spot a mile away |
| 02:15.22 | Amarande | Native Americans had that much more spiritual, down to earth belief system that would lead to such 'vision quests' being seen as a good spiritual experience |
| 02:15.38 | Dagmar | Amarande: NI climate is a bit more forgiving about you waking up in the middle of nowhere without your pants |
| 02:15.49 | Amarande | In Europe, it would be "Bill ate this mushroom and went mad and was taken away to the asylum" or "Bill ate this mushroom and communed with the Devil and they took him away to be burned" |
| 02:15.53 | Dagmar | s/NI/NA/; |
| 02:16.32 | Amarande | And the answer to "I wonder which one I'll eat" would most likely end up being "God neither" |
| 02:16.51 | Dagmar | Excepting those heathens |
| 02:16.58 | Dagmar | They knew which shrooms were safe and which were exciting |
| 02:17.22 | Dagmar | Definitely the celtics knew |
| 02:17.37 | Amarande | In the Middle East they had that thing with hashish, but I'm foggy on exactly how that got started |
| 02:17.38 | Dagmar | You don't get that many people making those kinds of knotwork patterns without mushrooms |
| 02:17.40 | NightHawkTheSane | er.. a number of mediteranean cultures have a history of using hallucinogenics... |
| 02:17.52 | Dagmar | Amarande: The hasishin |
| 02:18.01 | Amarande | mainly because I forget which things I've read are real history and which bits are Illuminati conspiracy theories and don't wish to sound like an idiot by thinking the latter was the former :) |
| 02:18.11 | Dagmar | The middle eastern precursor to "hard drinkin' ganstas" |
| 02:18.31 | Dagmar | Amarande: So long as you don't talk about Moon you're probably not too far from reality |
| 02:18.37 | Dagmar | That's the _evil_ thing about those books |
| 02:18.40 | Amarande | because, Light knows, I open my mouth way too often, particularly here, without fully considering my argument or sources. |
| 02:18.45 | Dagmar | They're not _quite_ alternate history |
| 02:19.10 | Dagmar | It's more like half the time, history was busy looking at other things |
| 02:19.24 | Amarande | you mean basically, *nobody* really remembers the details then :) |
| 02:19.39 | NightHawkTheSane | there's infinitely more history than is written down. |
| 02:19.40 | Dagmar | Some of it's fiction, some of it's real, adn some of it's just plain obscura no one can agree on |
| 02:19.48 | NightHawkTheSane | some things are just lost. |
| 02:20.06 | Dagmar | Some things are better not written down where tehy can be read aloud to a jury or published in a newspaper. |
| 02:20.11 | NightHawkTheSane | hehe |
| 02:20.17 | NightHawkTheSane | maybe, but a thousand years later, who cares i guess :P |
| 02:20.29 | Amarande | It's like trying to chart exactly the history of cave drawings, and marking when Og's scratchings finally became proper 'art' while Hugth's before him were just scratchings. :) |
| 02:20.51 | Dagmar | One thing's for sure back then |
| 02:21.03 | Dagmar | If you pooped in your hand and smeared it on the wall, you were OUT OF THE CAVE. |
| 02:21.29 | Amarande | Dagmar: indeed, in fact the whole lead into gold alchemy thing is thought to have had nothing to do with lead and gold ... it may have been either nothing to do with that or just a cover |
| 02:21.41 | Dagmar | Well, they were finding cool stuff as side effects |
| 02:21.50 | Amarande | I've read that a lot of 'alchemy' was actually code writings for occult practice disguised as science, especially occult practice that had to do with sexual behavior |
| 02:22.04 | Amarande | Things you *really* didn't want the Inquisition to know. :) |
| 02:22.21 | Dagmar | ...because sex makes money. |
| 02:22.34 | Dagmar | ...and if the Inquisition knew, they'd be doing it. |
| 02:22.37 | NightHawkTheSane | ... i'd make a pithy remark about it always coming back to sex, but its not that pithy, nor original |
| 02:22.54 | Dagmar | You can't tell me from looking at some of that equipment that there weren't a bunch of rapists involved in that |
| 02:23.05 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: Neither is sex |
| 02:23.06 | Amarande | yeah, they discovered arsenic, and probably learned you can use it to kill people, which is probably why they remembered arsenic |
| 02:23.17 | Amarande | because for some reason, stuff that can be used to kill people seems to be remembered pretty readily heh |
| 02:23.19 | Dagmar | They discovered phosphorous |
| 02:23.28 | Dagmar | That wasn't something made up for Wilson's books |
| 02:23.45 | Amarande | I'm still not sure how they managed to not discover that lead was poisonous too, though |
| 02:23.51 | Dagmar | Science and Medicine were mysticisms first, formal disciplines later |
| 02:24.00 | Dagmar | It doesn't drop you like a stone. |
| 02:24.05 | Amarande | although in the superstitious, occult and religion steeped climate of the day, and given that the toxic effects of lead are mainly mental |
| 02:24.07 | Dagmar | It just makes your kids a little stupid. |
| 02:24.08 | Amarande | they probably thought it made you a witch |
| 02:24.13 | Amarande | if anything |
| 02:25.14 | Dagmar | More likely they figured it was probably not useful to eat it and that's about it |
| 02:25.20 | Dagmar | Mercury was a bit more obvious in it's effects |
| 02:25.33 | Amarande | Dagmar: and yet nobody remembered that for some reason |
| 02:25.39 | Amarande | hence the Mad Hatters as late as the 1800s |
| 02:26.04 | Amarande | "Gee! This stuff makes you go crazy! Maybe we should use it to help make things people put on their HEAD!" |
| 02:26.07 | Dagmar | Who listens to alchemists? |
| 02:26.17 | Dagmar | It's not like they're men of science or anything. |
| 02:26.51 | Dagmar | It wasnt' the wearing of the hats that messed them up |
| 02:27.01 | Amarande | well, yeah, but still |
| 02:27.01 | NightHawkTheSane | its not so much that no one remembered it as the knowledge was just lost, because either no one wrote it down, or the things they wrote it down on were lost/destroyed |
| 02:27.09 | Dagmar | It was the exposure to small amounts of vaporized mercury which screwed people up |
| 02:27.20 | Amarande | the fact that it was used in headwear in particular just seems even more ignorant |
| 02:27.29 | Amarande | I mean, what if it *did* mess you up by wearing the hat? |
| 02:27.34 | Dagmar | It didn't. |
| 02:27.41 | Amarande | (which I'm not sure isn't the case, over extremely long terms, as mercury *can* be absorbed through skin) |
| 02:27.48 | Dagmar | By then the hat was _relatively_ free of it |
| 02:28.14 | Dagmar | Think of it like dry cleaning, but shinier |
| 02:28.17 | Amarande | Night: yeah, the Inquisition and such kinda did a number on useful knowledge |
| 02:28.40 | NightHawkTheSane | not just the inquisition. there's a lot more history than the past 500 years of |
| 02:28.45 | Amarande | actually, that seems to be a general thing in humanity that even extends to today (talk show hosts anyone? ...) |
| 02:28.47 | NightHawkTheSane | s/ of// |
| 02:29.06 | Amarande | how is it that actual truth and knowledge always seem to lose out to loudmouthed, violent zealots who are ignorant and seek to destroy said knowledge? |
| 02:29.10 | Dagmar | The Library at Alexandria would have been really cool to root through |
| 02:29.19 | NightHawkTheSane | oh man, totally |
| 02:29.23 | Dagmar | Amarande: History favors the survivors |
| 02:29.41 | Amarande | also, what drives people so *consistently* to *be* such violent zealots? |
| 02:30.04 | Amarande | it's almost like knowledge is inherently something that will eventually destroy us and we knowledge-mongers don't know it |
| 02:30.04 | Dagmar | Someoen writes a book and puts something in it you don't like, you kill them and burn the book and who's to say your interpretation of events isn't the truth? |
| 02:30.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 02:30.16 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 02:30.18 | Dagmar | Ignorance does it |
| 02:30.25 | Dagmar | This is why we should eat the stupid. |
| 02:30.36 | NightHawkTheSane | "should"? |
| 02:30.38 | NightHawkTheSane | hides his dinner |
| 02:30.40 | Amarande | although, granted, there are some inventions that probably do have the potential to ruin the world and human race as we know it |
| 02:30.41 | Shirik | Yeah SCREW YOU Brighthouse |
| 02:30.41 | Amarande | like nukes |
| 02:30.47 | Shirik | "As of 7:15 PM, customers in the Central Florida region may experience issues with their telephone and internet services" |
| 02:30.52 | Shirik | How can you cut off an ENTIRE HALF OF A STATE |
| 02:30.54 | Amarande | I'm not sure inventing nukes did anything at all good for the world :| |
| 02:31.00 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik: pretty easily, fuck florida. ;0 |
| 02:31.11 | Dagmar | Shirik: The same way you shut down the entire eastern seaboard and blame it on hackers |
| 02:31.20 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: nuclear power and the advancement of physics begs to differ. |
| 02:31.32 | Amarande | Night: well, some of the associated knowledge is of course useful |
| 02:31.39 | Amarande | but, how exactly did being able to make it into a bomb help the world? |
| 02:31.53 | Dagmar | It let at least one faction know things had gone Entirely Too Far |
| 02:31.58 | NightHawkTheSane | the research that revealed much of the former was done while developing the latter |
| 02:32.00 | Amarande | now humanity just has all these bombs that nobody dares use stockpiled all over the place |
| 02:33.13 | Amarande | Night: I guess up until they invented the H-bomb. After that though it seemed like it kinda forked |
| 02:33.27 | Dagmar | Application of the same principlees |
| 02:33.30 | Amarande | one side being the useful "how do we use this stuff to discover more about how things work and do civilized things with it" |
| 02:33.46 | Amarande | the other being "how do we make these things make a bigger boom so we can annihilate the USSR" |
| 02:33.56 | Dagmar | You don't often find anything with that significant a power yeild of any kind |
| 02:34.27 | Dagmar | We just need our _enery storage_ technology to make that kind of a leap |
| 02:34.30 | Amarande | although, yeah. for some reason researching new ways to kill people seems to somehow end up being one of the major motivating factors for scientific advance |
| 02:34.37 | Dagmar | s/enery/energy/; |
| 02:34.48 | Dagmar | Imagine if you could blow up a nuke and stuff it all into a big car battery |
| 02:35.07 | Amarande | it almost seems in a way like society itself is based, ultimately, on the ability to kill |
| 02:35.15 | Amarande | not on the ability to create, but on the ability to destroy |
| 02:35.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 02:35.25 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 02:35.36 | Dagmar | That would be the disassociation factor inherent in representative currency |
| 02:35.39 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: I did nothing |
| 02:35.40 | NightHawkTheSane | welcome to the most obvious realization since humanity stopped being tribal |
| 02:35.54 | Amarande | Dagmar: nuclear batteries replacing things like car batteries would actually be a really good idea |
| 02:35.55 | Shirik | and then my phone lost EVDO service... |
| 02:35.57 | Shirik | as I was saying, I need an SLA |
| 02:36.11 | ScytheBlade1 | er? |
| 02:36.14 | NightHawkTheSane | software license agreemnt? |
| 02:36.19 | NightHawkTheSane | agreement* |
| 02:36.28 | ScytheBlade1 | !g sla |
| 02:36.28 | batbot | ScytheBlade1: Special Libraries Association <http://www.sla.org/> |
| 02:36.30 | Amarande | I'm pretty sure the only reasons they don't do it are because of limited supplies of radioactive materials that are suitable for use in such batteries without needing prohibitive amounts of shielding, and because there isn't a practical way to keep the material away from terrorists then |
| 02:36.32 | ScytheBlade1 | bah |
| 02:36.33 | Dagmar | Amarande: yeah we can generate HUGE amounts of power by splitting some atoms. We just can't store energy on anything near a matching scale |
| 02:36.33 | ScytheBlade1 | nope |
| 02:36.41 | ScytheBlade1 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_level_agreement |
| 02:36.41 | Shirik | service level agreement |
| 02:36.42 | ScytheBlade1 | That |
| 02:36.43 | ZorbaBeta | service level agreement, or something along those lines |
| 02:36.45 | ZorbaBeta | yeah |
| 02:36.58 | NightHawkTheSane | ahh |
| 02:37.10 | Dagmar | You want an SLA from the phone company? |
| 02:37.15 | Dagmar | rofls |
| 02:37.19 | Amarande | It's actually pretty easy to make a small nuclear battery that provides a reasonable amount of energy. Now making one that's still small when you add enough shielding around it so you don't die, that's another matter. :) |
| 02:37.43 | Amarande | You know, there's ALL TOO MANY things that would be awesome and cool if it wasn't for that little matter of the fact that they make you die. :| |
| 02:37.56 | Amarande | Maybe we need to discover immortality first. |
| 02:37.58 | Amarande | Heh. |
| 02:38.00 | Dagmar | Amarande: again, piss poor energy storage technology |
| 02:38.16 | Shirik | no Dagmar |
| 02:38.18 | Shirik | for my internet |
| 02:38.20 | Thunder_Child | that we are aware of |
| 02:38.29 | Shirik | the morons that are controlling my server's network |
| 02:38.31 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik: same difference. blood from a stone. |
| 02:38.34 | Amarande | also, when the power goes out all over the eastern seaboard |
| 02:38.34 | Dagmar | Shirik: You're going to have to sign a more expensive contract |
| 02:38.41 | Amarande | we do not blame it on hackers, at least not if you're FROM the eastern seaboard |
| 02:38.41 | Shirik | it won't be more expensive at this rate |
| 02:38.47 | Shirik | they'll end up paying it all back |
| 02:38.47 | Amarande | real New Englanders blame that on squirrels. |
| 02:39.09 | Amarande | there is a reason for this. the vast majority of power outages, at least in THIS area, are indeed caused by squirrels. |
| 02:39.23 | Amarande | Squirrels. Nature's original terrorist. :| |
| 02:39.28 | Shirik | I'm fortunate |
| 02:39.33 | Shirik | in my area, we have redundant power lines |
| 02:39.44 | Shirik | not just on the same pole, but literally like 3 ways to get power |
| 02:39.47 | Amarande | Shirik: you live in a city, I'm presuming? |
| 02:39.51 | Shirik | no |
| 02:39.53 | Shirik | just next to an airport |
| 02:39.53 | Dagmar | Now all you need to do to unleash a wave of panic is to start making little light-up harnesses for squirrels and get them to wear some in public. |
| 02:39.57 | ScytheBlade1 | he lives on a boat |
| 02:40.01 | Shirik | my school is in fact attached to an airport |
| 02:40.05 | Amarande | Shirik: so a considerably more urban area than where I live, then |
| 02:40.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Ycarene (i=jporterf@24-116-56-41.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 02:40.36 | Amarande | I live out in the sticks, where there's generally like, one or two roads to get between a lot of places, and most of the non-road space is private property that they can't exactly go around building huge power infrastructure on |
| 02:40.44 | Dagmar | "Hello 911? I think I just saw a squirrel armed with a bomb. Why yes, as a mother of two I'm perfectly qualified to say for sure that it was a bomb." |
| 02:41.32 | Dagmar | If you could get the squirrels to put up with your nonsense that would definitely baffle the heck out of people tho |
| 02:41.46 | Amarande | although, on the other hand, the very lake that I live on an island in the middle of, exists -because- of the local power company |
| 02:42.13 | Amarande | however, this doesn't really help when the one direction that wires can practically come onto this island gets power outaged due to a squirrel trying to sleep in the transformer |
| 02:42.34 | Amarande | (which apparently is what the squirrels keep on doing to cause the outages) |
| 02:42.50 | Amarande | Squirrel: "Cool, this metal can here looks like a great place to curl up and sle--ZAAAAP" |
| 02:43.00 | Wobin | =( |
| 02:43.10 | Wobin | I'm doing 25% of the healing in this Ony25 |
| 02:43.11 | Dagmar | I've seen them make that "final leap" before a few times |
| 02:43.52 | Amarande | Dagmar: I'm not sure why that behavior doesn't evolve out. :) |
| 02:44.58 | Amarande | Wobin: how many healers do you have? |
| 02:45.02 | Shirik | "Bright House Networks "raises the bar" on superior network performance and high quality care for Data and Internet Services. Please click here to learn more about the Service Levels for Data and Internet." |
| 02:45.04 | Amarande | (don't say four. please don't say four.) |
| 02:45.10 | Shirik | Note that "click here" is not a link |
| 02:45.12 | Shirik | it is just text |
| 02:45.22 | Shirik | there is nowhere near it that I can click on for any kind of funcitonality |
| 02:45.46 | Amarande | Shirik: Weyland-Yutani Corporation! Building Better Worlds! (Yes, apparently worlds where you will be attacked by ugly spider aliens and impregnated with alien larvae resulting in your gruesome and excruciating death are BETTER!) |
| 02:46.32 | Amarande | Shirik: you want to really see site fail, check out the site for the new reissued Choose Your Own Adventure book series |
| 02:46.40 | Amarande | the FAQ page is quite literally that ... it's a list of FAQs |
| 02:46.47 | Amarande | no answers, mind you, just questions :) |
| 02:46.49 | Shirik | lol |
| 02:47.18 | Amarande | I had to look in the page source to make sure they weren't just scripted collapsed links and my browser was fail, but nope, the page really *is* that way |
| 02:47.33 | Amarande | ok, speaking of scripted links |
| 02:47.47 | Amarande | what's the trick to post links in one's blog or articles or such that give those Wowhead tooltips when you mouse over? |
| 02:48.13 | Amarande | I've seen a fair number of blogs and board posts that do it, and I can't figure out how. |
| 02:48.19 | Dagmar | CSS and lots of it |
| 02:48.45 | Dagmar | Not only look at the source, but pull the CSS the page references as well |
| 02:48.51 | Amarande | good god. 12 pages of QQ about "We Had It All Along" |
| 02:49.12 | Wobin | 6 |
| 02:49.16 | Wobin | Amarande, ^ |
| 02:49.37 | Wobin | er 5 |
| 02:49.45 | Amarande | (though I'm not sure how many pages are actually there when you take out standard stock posts like "I have this achievement, so stfu it's not that hard") |
| 02:49.48 | *** part/#wowuidev Synpra (n=Synpra@75.80.16.10) |
| 02:50.31 | Amarande | not to mention we might need a new punishment idea for AFK'ers in BGs soon |
| 02:50.54 | Amarande | I'm starting to see "I'm AFKing in battlegrounds and getting away with it and loving it because I'm already capped on honor and Foo Marks of Honor!" :| |
| 02:51.16 | Amarande | (Apparently, since you can still get Achievements for battlegrounds even then, there's still a point to it) |
| 02:51.48 | Shirik | ~ping |
| 02:51.49 | purl | ~pong |
| 02:52.04 | NightHawkTheSane | argh. sites that are just one big image piss me off |
| 02:52.18 | Amarande | Night: guh, indeed |
| 02:52.25 | Amarande | whatever happened to Web Pages That Suck? |
| 02:52.51 | NightHawkTheSane | especially when it's a goddamn 4mb png of a menu. >< |
| 02:53.07 | Amarande | I tend to dislike overlarge/overheavy graphics on sites in general |
| 02:53.22 | Amarande | unless there's actually some reason the graphic is large, such as a screenshot or such |
| 02:53.40 | Amarande | but really, basic page framework graphics should be reasonably lightweight |
| 02:55.16 | Amarande | hell, when I deign to create a web page I rarely even use graphics unless I actually need them to present the info |
| 02:55.34 | Amarande | my pages tend to be very, very basic, could even usually call it spartan HTML |
| 02:55.49 | Amarande | (they also tend to comply exactly to XHTML Strict, too) |
| 02:56.13 | Amarande | Night, what's your favored web authoring tool? |
| 02:56.14 | Wobin | Amarande: yeah 6 healers >< |
| 02:56.26 | Amarande | Wobin: which builds are you and your fellow healers? |
| 02:56.53 | tem | woot Head of Onyxia |
| 02:57.15 | Shirik | epic failure @ brighthouse |
| 02:57.17 | Amarande | I'd expect that some healer builds would probably not top the numbers by design, like disc priests, since a large amount of their strength comes from the bubbles and associated damage mitigation thus meaning not *needing* to actually heal as much |
| 02:57.20 | Shirik | I think the company just died |
| 02:57.22 | NightHawkTheSane | a good text editor. |
| 02:57.38 | Amarande | Night: Either UltraEdit or Amaya, myself. :) |
| 02:57.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Stew_a (n=Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 02:57.43 | Shirik | I tried to view their webpage and it died, so I call business services and I got transferred into a black hole |
| 02:57.49 | NightHawkTheSane | i'm favoring vim lately. |
| 02:57.54 | Dagmar | Shirik: Wait so the phone company is down, and your ISP is down? |
| 02:57.55 | Shirik | vim is <3 |
| 02:57.57 | Shirik | ISP |
| 02:58.00 | Amarande | Shirik: heh, when I went to Dragon*Con I picked up a poster for this one comic |
| 02:58.01 | Shirik | not phone |
| 02:58.02 | NightHawkTheSane | well, gvim, but the difference is negligable |
| 02:58.08 | Amarande | and I got home and tried to go to the site and it was just a generic godaddy page |
| 02:58.12 | Amarande | talk about fail :( |
| 02:58.42 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik: I actually started using it as a full on IDE in my current job. I'm really impressed at how good it can be |
| 02:58.46 | Amarande | Night: sadly I'm sans a Linux machine right now |
| 02:59.17 | Amarande | I find dual booting awkward, and I don't trust the ATI drivers enough to be non fail now to go to the trouble of possibly having to reinstall Windows entirely after trying Linux whole hog again |
| 02:59.39 | Amarande | Maybe I'll give it a try at the point where my "Windows reinstall" would consist of an upgrade to W7 |
| 03:00.26 | Amarande | On the Windows side though, UltraEdit is pretty win and awesome. |
| 03:00.36 | Amarande | Definitely good enough that I decided it worth it to buy the life upgrade license. |
| 03:00.44 | NightHawkTheSane | afks for dinner |
| 03:01.45 | Shirik | heh |
| 03:01.50 | Shirik | they must have activated some kind of backup call center |
| 03:01.57 | Shirik | their automated response system has changed in the last 2 minutes |
| 03:02.17 | Amarande | can't remember who originally recommended UltraEdit to him, it's been too long |
| 03:02.17 | Wobin | Amarande, I'm resto shaman |
| 03:02.25 | Wobin | three other resto shaman |
| 03:02.31 | Wobin | and two holy priests |
| 03:03.12 | Amarande | any significant gear discrepancies? |
| 03:03.34 | Amarande | like, you aren't in full 245-258 with val'anyr and they're using 213 or something like that, are you? :) |
| 03:04.10 | Wobin | nope |
| 03:04.10 | Amarande | speaking of 213, you know what I just thought of |
| 03:04.23 | Amarande | the Epic achievement is actually surprisingly difficult as a caster, inherently |
| 03:04.33 | ZorbaBeta | I strongly suspect that bad healers have a much easier time getting into raids than any other class |
| 03:04.41 | Wobin | we're all about the same gear |
| 03:05.07 | ZorbaBeta | they're just not inspected as carefully during battle as tanks or dps are, and one terrible healer can be pretty transparently carried by the other healers |
| 03:05.11 | Amarande | I wouldn't be surprised if in a couple months I manage to get myself into mostly 226+ and STILL don't have Epic. |
| 03:05.19 | Amarande | There is one reason for this. I'm sure most of you can figure it out pretty easily. :) |
| 03:05.22 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, it's tricky as all classes, but why caster specifically? |
| 03:05.26 | Amarande | Zorba: offhands |
| 03:05.31 | Dagmar | Buy one then |
| 03:05.33 | Amarande | there is an -extreme- paucity of decent offhands in wotlk |
| 03:05.39 | Amarande | Dagmar: the highest badge offhand is still 200, as far as I know |
| 03:05.42 | ZorbaBeta | ah, didn't know that was a big problem |
| 03:05.48 | Amarande | they haven't added ANY since the original heroism emblem ones IIRC |
| 03:05.53 | Dagmar | Your'e *sure* it's required for the meta then? |
| 03:05.54 | ZorbaBeta | though I suspect any dps class that uses a 2hander has a similar issue |
| 03:06.07 | Amarande | actually, wait, do you need an offhand for epic, now I'm not sure |
| 03:06.08 | ZorbaBeta | if not an even worse one :P |
| 03:06.11 | Amarande | I always assumed you had to fill every slot |
| 03:06.31 | ZorbaBeta | it says "every slot", but it doesn't seem to include offhand that I can see |
| 03:06.33 | ZorbaBeta | just weapon and ranged |
| 03:06.35 | Amarande | ahh. |
| 03:06.36 | Dagmar | ...considering that I have more fingers than there are decent post-200 guns, I'm not hearing solid gripes |
| 03:06.46 | Amarande | I was also gonna say, even if it needed offhand |
| 03:06.56 | ZorbaBeta | I overpaid for Veranus' Bane just so I could get that achievement ;) |
| 03:06.59 | Amarande | most melee classes that can use 2-handers can dual wield |
| 03:07.11 | Amarande | so you'd just get a 1H and swap it between both slots |
| 03:07.14 | Amarande | like the ring trick |
| 03:07.24 | Amarande | (did they ever patch the ring/trinket trick?) |
| 03:07.31 | Dagmar | It's not really a trick |
| 03:07.33 | ZorbaBeta | yeah, but if you're dualwielding as an arms warrior or a ret pally, you're looking at getting a piece of raid gear just for Epic |
| 03:07.36 | ZorbaBeta | which is kind of weird |
| 03:07.57 | Amarande | yeah, come to think of it I'm not sure there are any 213 crafted weapons you could use either |
| 03:07.59 | Dagmar | Now, it does seem they've fixed the "try it on, pass it on" thing tho |
| 03:08.07 | Amarande | I know there's 226 crafted armor pieces, the stupidly expensive crusader orb ones :) |
| 03:08.13 | Dagmar | We noticed last night that passing the brewfest mount drop around did nothing |
| 03:08.25 | Amarande | I had a JFC moment when I saw some of those on AH and saw the prices |
| 03:08.34 | Amarande | although given that crusader orbs are stupidly expensive right now I'm not -entirely- surprised |
| 03:08.38 | Dagmar | ....although merely looting it initially ticks both those achievements off the list |
| 03:09.00 | Dagmar | Amarande: That's raiders thinking that they've got all the casuals fooled into thinking there's a point in buying them |
| 03:09.06 | Amarande | Dagmar: and yeah, I know your pain on the ranged slot |
| 03:09.13 | tem | Okay, so I've got 32 triumph badges oh my druid |
| 03:09.14 | Amarande | there really aren't that many good wands post freaking 187 or so |
| 03:09.23 | tem | buy t9 (10 man, ilvl 232) for 30 now |
| 03:09.26 | Amarande | case in point: there is a reason I specifically had to run H-UK so many times |
| 03:09.26 | Dagmar | I get it on wands and sticks |
| 03:09.35 | tem | or wait and buy the non-set ilvl 245 ones for 45? |
| 03:09.37 | Amarande | because, pre-raid, the Wand of the San'layn is so blatantly BIS for every DPS caster |
| 03:09.50 | Dagmar | I'm sure there'll be some shaman or druids or whoever squealing if I roll on Thudnerstrike/Shadowstrike later tonight |
| 03:09.54 | ZorbaBeta | tem, wait, I'd say |
| 03:09.54 | Amarande | and really there is NO substitute for it |
| 03:10.09 | Amarande | there's the wand from AN, but that isn't quite as good as far as I can see |
| 03:10.22 | Dagmar | "If they didn'a want hunters to use this, they shouldn'a put all this agility on it, yah!" |
| 03:10.31 | Amarande | San'layn on the other hand is so awesome for a 200 blue that some folks didn't find a good replacement till Ulduar |
| 03:11.29 | Amarande | yeah, I'm not sure exactly how you punish a hunter for rolling on cat/enh shaman/rogue weapons |
| 03:11.37 | Amarande | too many of them seem to have stats good for both types of character |
| 03:12.19 | tem | Dagmar, it's pretty clearly a hunter/feral weapon |
| 03:12.31 | Dagmar | It would help if there were stat sticks for hunters that didn't come off vendors |
| 03:12.42 | Dagmar | tem: You'd be amazed how much they moan about it tho |
| 03:12.48 | Amarande | also: regarding post-200 guns |
| 03:12.55 | Amarande | what's wrong with the 219 one from H-TOC? |
| 03:13.04 | Dagmar | I have the stick from The Black Knight, but before that my last three melee weapons were all vendor-bought |
| 03:13.09 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, the H-TOC gear drops annoyingly infrequently |
| 03:13.16 | ZorbaBeta | most of it has pretty painful drop rates. |
| 03:13.21 | *** join/#wowuidev luigithekid (n=chatzill@201.208.44.87) |
| 03:13.35 | Dagmar | I mean, I've got _all_ teh gear from HToC now, but I've done all the other heroics |
| 03:13.38 | Dagmar | Multiple times |
| 03:13.53 | Dagmar | I was still waving around the walrus antenna and the sword of demonstratable tetanus |
| 03:14.15 | Amarande | Here is a perfect example, also, of where hunters and cats are going to be at each others' throats, and I can't see it being justified for either of them to relent: |
| 03:14.15 | Amarande | http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47522 |
| 03:14.37 | Dagmar | Yep. |
| 03:14.45 | Dagmar | Luckily there were no druids around |
| 03:15.13 | Amarande | The worst is if you have a MM hunter and cat druid, I suppose |
| 03:15.26 | Dagmar | Frankly I think Thunderstrike/Shadwostrike would go better with my plan to BM and off-spec as BM. |
| 03:15.29 | ZorbaBeta | I'd argue that it should go to druids first, just because druids get more itemization out of it. but that's the only good argument. |
| 03:15.31 | Amarande | the cat really wants that FAP, but currently armor pen is so ridiculously uber for MM |
| 03:15.36 | Wobin | bah |
| 03:15.39 | Wobin | Shaman use agi too! |
| 03:15.56 | Dagmar | ZorbaBeta: Yeah if we have someone running around with a blue in their hand I'll click pass |
| 03:16.00 | Amarande | Dagmar: wait, both of your specs will be BM? |
| 03:16.06 | Dagmar | Amarande: Yes. |
| 03:16.15 | Dagmar | One for raiding and one for pet tanking |
| 03:16.32 | Dagmar | We learned last night that you can, in fact wipe on Coren Direbrew |
| 03:16.38 | ZorbaBeta | I keep getting people dragging me to HToC to tank after I insist on being allowed to roll on the Edge of Ruin |
| 03:16.41 | ZorbaBeta | still have not gotten it though |
| 03:16.42 | Dagmar | From now on they know to TELL ME when I'm supposed to be tanking |
| 03:16.50 | Amarande | Dagmar: okay, now I'm willing to admit that I wiped on Keleseth once |
| 03:17.01 | Amarande | simply because that's *still* not as bad as wiping on Coren :) |
| 03:17.02 | bleeter | Adys: pong |
| 03:17.13 | Dagmar | We had two DKs and a paladin |
| 03:17.18 | Dagmar | I figured SURELY one of them wuold be the one tanking |
| 03:17.25 | Amarande | I mean, I can't really think of a way to fail on Coren other than maybe to attempt to solo it |
| 03:17.27 | Amarande | Dagmar: ah |
| 03:17.39 | Amarande | the good old "I thought you had the ball" error :) |
| 03:17.43 | ZorbaBeta | dagmar, this is why I check everyone's HP :) |
| 03:17.51 | Amarande | sadly, I still will need to chalk one up in the E column for you |
| 03:17.54 | Dagmar | Oh the sad thing is that I didn't have heal pots hotkeyed or I'd ahve killed him |
| 03:18.16 | bleeter | who'd have thought AutoTune, Carl Sagan and Stephen Hawking would sound so sweet? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc |
| 03:18.22 | Dagmar | He came strolling over to me with about 40k health left and I was slow getting out of the way |
| 03:18.27 | ZorbaBeta | I'm happy that I got all my brewfest stuff done |
| 03:18.34 | ZorbaBeta | achievements, got the ram and the kodo |
| 03:18.39 | Amarande | hmm |
| 03:18.41 | ZorbaBeta | totally finished :D |
| 03:18.42 | Amarande | is there still time to get the achievements? |
| 03:18.49 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, definitely |
| 03:18.54 | Dagmar | After that I regeared up, dropped a fish feast, played some drums, and we generally roflstomped him |
| 03:19.02 | Amarande | I have to head out to Orgrimmar soon anyway to drop off a quest in a BRD chain |
| 03:19.06 | ZorbaBeta | it took me from Sunday to mid-Friday to get everything, and you've got until *next* Saturday |
| 03:19.10 | Amarande | (which also means I'll be headed back to BRD ... :D) |
| 03:19.23 | Dagmar | I even put on that nice frostscale mail armor that's all FR and stamina |
| 03:19.23 | Amarande | how hard is the ram race thing? |
| 03:19.30 | Dagmar | Amarande: Easy. |
| 03:19.33 | Dagmar | Probably easier if you drink |
| 03:19.39 | ZorbaBeta | it's tough to get it perfect, but easy to get it good enough |
| 03:19.46 | Amarande | wait, drinking makes it EASIER? how? |
| 03:20.04 | Amarande | makes a point to buy several stacks of Sulfuron Slammer next time I'm in BRD |
| 03:20.06 | Dagmar | I've not had a chance to check but I begin to suspect that either people on my server are really dim, or the mounts go a bit faster thwn you're smashed |
| 03:20.18 | Amarande | although that might be overkill |
| 03:20.21 | Dagmar | Amarande: There's beer EVERYWHERE at Brewfest |
| 03:20.27 | Amarande | since from what I've seen, just two drinks of SS leaves you drunk for a good 20 minutes |
| 03:20.29 | Dagmar | Beer with stats even |
| 03:20.43 | Dagmar | There's three kegs at least two dwarves tall at Brewfest |
| 03:20.48 | Dagmar | Free, free, free beer |
| 03:21.08 | Dagmar | Anwyay I've noticed that when I'm hammered I seem to be passing the heck out of other racers |
| 03:21.30 | Dagmar | Like, not just watching them go off to the side and fall behind, but me steadily gaining on them at about walkling speed |
| 03:21.30 | Amarande | also: do you have to clicky much of anything on the way, or just circle round and round? |
| 03:21.37 | ZorbaBeta | dagmar, I suspect they may just suck |
| 03:21.44 | Dagmar | Hotkey the reins to '1' |
| 03:21.44 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, you want to hotkey the reins to some button |
| 03:21.49 | ZorbaBeta | then you just hammer that button |
| 03:22.00 | Dagmar | THen you just mash '1' about once a second after the initial whap-whap-whap to get him up to speed |
| 03:22.01 | ZorbaBeta | also it's not really a circle, it's more of a line |
| 03:22.22 | Amarande | and it's once every ... 12 hours? |
| 03:22.33 | ZorbaBeta | sounds right |
| 03:22.34 | Dagmar | ...then it's apple barrel, apple barrel, beer guy, apple barrel, apple barrel, delivery, rinse and repeat |
| 03:23.02 | Dagmar | So long as your kids's toys didn't involve lead paint you're getting ten passes |
| 03:23.28 | Dagmar | You can't skip a barrel and shave some time anymore like you could last year |
| 03:23.34 | ZorbaBeta | unless you're heavily lagged, note |
| 03:23.42 | Amarande | oh lord. epic misreading patch notes |
| 03:23.46 | ZorbaBeta | more than a few times I'd walk into a barrel and past and it wouldn't work :( |
| 03:23.50 | Amarande | I'm like ... "wait a minute, there were keep walls in winterspring?" |
| 03:23.53 | Dagmar | If you're lagged just run straight into the barrels and hit the spacebar as you hit them |
| 03:23.58 | ZorbaBeta | yeah I tried that |
| 03:24.00 | ZorbaBeta | didn't work always |
| 03:24.02 | ZorbaBeta | no idea why |
| 03:24.14 | Dagmar | If you're feeling ballsy just graze the barrels on the inside edge |
| 03:24.17 | Amarande | then I'm like ... "doh, winter*grasp*" |
| 03:24.23 | Amarande | this is what I get for spending too much time in the old world :P |
| 03:25.18 | Amarande | because I was thinking like "um, the only 'keep' in winterspring is the little goblin town, that doesn't have 'wall status'" ... |
| 03:25.20 | Amarande | I need to drink more beer |
| 03:25.26 | Dagmar | YEs! |
| 03:25.36 | bleeter | ZorbaBeta: please excuse what's probably a silly question, byt how do I stop QH spewing what looks like debug stuff onto my third chat pane? |
| 03:26.16 | Shirik | Has anyone here ever used nunit before? |
| 03:26.26 | ZorbaBeta | bleeter, as far as I know, it doesn't. what kind of stuff? |
| 03:27.28 | bleeter | ZorbaBeta: don't have it right in front of me, but I thought it was QH foo. when I cross zone boundaries something's spewing out a list of NPCs and or quests, etc. hadn't really looked *that* hard in to it... hmmm nm |
| 03:27.38 | Amarande | oh, bugger, once again ... forgot to check off load out of date addons FAIL |
| 03:27.49 | bleeter | ZorbaBeta: I'll try find something else to blame ;) |
| 03:27.59 | ZorbaBeta | yeah I don't think that's me :) |
| 03:28.45 | bleeter | ZorbaBeta: you going to be around for next half hour or so? I'll take a peek just to make sure ;) |
| 03:29.04 | ZorbaBeta | yeah, I'll be around. lemme know what you find out |
| 03:29.11 | bleeter | goes back to listening to the Sagan+Hawking autotune |
| 03:30.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Ycarene (i=jporterf@24-116-56-41.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 03:34.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Shishire (n=emperors@146-115-125-140.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com) |
| 03:35.54 | Shishire | http://pastebin.com/d5eb3c450 I'm getting errors on line 10 of that. Am I correct in assuming that you can't nest {'s? |
| 03:36.20 | Iriel | You can nest them just fine |
| 03:36.37 | Shishire | O.o anyone have any ideas why it's not working then? |
| 03:36.51 | Iriel | Your syntax is wrong |
| 03:37.09 | Iriel | Either do { TOPLEFT = {50,50} } or { ["TOPLEFT"] = {50,50} } |
| 03:37.58 | Shishire | oh. ok, thanks |
| 03:38.48 | Wobin | Dagmar, use my cork module for the ram racing |
| 03:38.53 | Wobin | binds the reins to mousewheel |
| 03:38.57 | Thunder_Child | Use the bent fingers of right hand to move downward across the left flat palm. next touch the nose using thumb tip of right hand. then bend and unbend the index and middle fingers several time. |
| 03:39.04 | Thunder_Child | thats is debug in signlanguage |
| 03:39.12 | Dagmar | Wobin: It helps to have my camera acting all crazy? |
| 03:39.14 | Thunder_Child | go figure |
| 03:39.32 | Wobin | it overrides the camera |
| 03:40.04 | Dagmar | Wobin: I bind it to '1' so I can just tap it with my left hand and focus on steering with the right |
| 03:40.27 | Wobin | Dagmar, that way leads to rsi |
| 03:40.31 | Wobin | trust me |
| 03:40.39 | Dagmar | HAHAHAH |
| 03:40.41 | Wobin | I can whip and steer with mouse alone |
| 03:40.47 | Wobin | it's effortless =P |
| 03:40.48 | Dagmar | You've NO idea how many hours a week I spend working with a keyboard and mouse |
| 03:40.52 | tem | My druid has bags on his shoulders |
| 03:40.59 | tem | I demand extra bag slots |
| 03:41.14 | Dagmar | My wrists completely calcified years ago |
| 03:41.20 | Dagmar | There's no RSI for me |
| 03:41.27 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (n=sa@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 03:41.29 | Wobin | Dagmar, try it before you knock it =P |
| 03:41.41 | Wobin | also, this way, you don't have to override your 1 hotkey |
| 03:41.58 | Dagmar | That's the "one" key |
| 03:42.04 | Dagmar | It does everything. |
| 03:42.35 | Dagmar | ...in combat, it's generally bound to Kill Shot |
| 03:43.17 | Shishire | The "one" key? is that like "the two ring"? |
| 03:43.25 | Dagmar | Something like that |
| 03:43.29 | Shishire | lol |
| 03:43.33 | Dagmar | It's the "one" key that's the answer to all life's problems |
| 03:44.08 | Dagmar | I push it, and pesky mages just disappear |
| 03:45.20 | Dagmar | This way all thsoe little things I have to have items for, I don't have to think about where I stuck it, it's on the one key |
| 03:46.02 | tem | I would really like an addon that intelligently bound my quest items to one button |
| 03:46.08 | tem | so that it would use the right one always |
| 03:46.36 | Shirik | I wish people would get through their heads that XML != HTML |
| 03:50.29 | Thunder_Child | except that XML == HTML |
| 03:50.34 | Thunder_Child | if you dont care |
| 03:53.55 | Iriel | Thunder_Child: If you dont care then XML == Grilled Cheese Sandwich |
| 03:54.35 | Thunder_Child | Iriel, basically yes |
| 03:54.37 | *** join/#wowuidev digmouse (n=chatzill@124.205.157.51) |
| 03:54.58 | Thunder_Child | except that the sandwich tasts better |
| 03:55.08 | Thunder_Child | tastes* |
| 03:58.13 | NightHawkTheSane | mm... grilled cheese |
| 04:00.05 | Gnarfoz | tem: for daily quests, IHML is close to that |
| 04:01.30 | NightHawkTheSane | tem: opie's quest ring is pretty close as well |
| 04:02.25 | tem | hmm |
| 04:02.39 | NightHawkTheSane | especially if you have its "tap repeats last action" thing on |
| 04:02.55 | tem | the items that piss me off the most are the ones that the blizzard ui fails to show in the objectives tracker |
| 04:03.27 | tem | like the frost thingies for the Hot and Cold hodir daily |
| 04:04.43 | NightHawkTheSane | i think any quest with an item that you aren't given up front is like that |
| 04:06.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Sesshu (n=Sesshu@ip-143-19.travedsl.de) |
| 04:07.34 | ZorbaBeta | tem, I've actually wanted to make that a feature of Questhelper, but haven't gotten to it |
| 04:07.51 | Bruners | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p32OC97aNqc&feature=player_embedded#t=246 |
| 04:10.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Cralor` (n=Cralor`@c-98-216-219-153.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 04:14.51 | Amarande | WTF |
| 04:14.57 | Amarande | I just got Down with the Dark Iron and I didn't even DO anything |
| 04:15.05 | Amarande | I was actually busy wandering around capturing wolpertingers, heh |
| 04:17.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Cralor` (n=Cralor`@c-98-216-219-153.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 04:22.31 | Shirik | holy shit |
| 04:22.36 | Shirik | I just found a button on my mouse I never knew I had |
| 04:22.43 | Shirik | there is a side button on my mouse |
| 04:22.43 | Shirik | but |
| 04:22.47 | Shirik | it's not a visible button |
| 04:23.03 | Shirik | it looks like the case of the mouse, but it's actually flexible enough that you can push it in and it triggers a button |
| 04:24.39 | Thunder_Child | how long have you had that mouse Shirik? |
| 04:24.49 | Shirik | a few weeks |
| 04:25.17 | Thunder_Child | you are one of thoes people that do not RTFM? |
| 04:25.59 | NightHawkTheSane | eh, its a mouse, who reads mouse manuals? |
| 04:26.13 | ZorbaBeta | yeah, honestly, when I buy a mouse I have two steps in the installation |
| 04:26.14 | NightHawkTheSane | i'm more surprised that you bought a mouse without knowing what it did |
| 04:26.15 | Thunder_Child | people that have a mouse thats complicated as hell |
| 04:26.24 | ZorbaBeta | * remove mouse from packaging, plug in |
| 04:26.28 | ZorbaBeta | * throw away everything that is not mouse |
| 04:26.38 | kd3 | ^ |
| 04:26.47 | ZorbaBeta | I do not exactly read the documentation :P |
| 04:27.15 | Shirik | I bought it for the other features |
| 04:27.19 | Shirik | not this hidden button |
| 04:27.33 | ZorbaBeta | I wish someone else would make a mouse with a removable battery pack, though |
| 04:27.35 | Shirik | and, in general, when I'm looking at mice I look at feel |
| 04:27.40 | ZorbaBeta | for some reason it's just not a feature anyone seems to care about besides me |
| 04:27.52 | NightHawkTheSane | well, yeah, but usually when i look to buy a mouse i look to see all of what it has/does in terms of buttons |
| 04:27.55 | Thunder_Child | you "look at feel?" |
| 04:28.51 | NightHawkTheSane | shirik likes to feel mice. |
| 04:30.04 | ZorbaBeta | if you know what I mean. |
| 04:30.12 | kd3 | oh huzzah. the boil water advisory's been lifted |
| 04:30.15 | NightHawkTheSane | ZorbaBeta: i like my mouse wired, generally |
| 04:30.26 | ZorbaBeta | my desk is cluttered enough that I strongly prefer wireless |
| 04:30.41 | NightHawkTheSane | although for laptops wireless is nicer |
| 04:30.46 | ScytheBlade1 | kd3: still, better run your tap for a while first |
| 04:30.46 | ZorbaBeta | and modern wireless doesn't have any kind of lag or startup issues |
| 04:31.17 | kd3 | ya. everything's getting disinfected pretty much |
| 04:31.21 | NightHawkTheSane | ZorbaBeta: yeah, its not so much lag as it is i dont like my mostly-stationary peripherals to have batteries |
| 04:32.00 | ZorbaBeta | and that's what the removable battery pack is for ;) it came with two of them and the base station doubles as a charger |
| 04:32.10 | ZorbaBeta | takes me about ten seconds to swap at this point, I've done it in the middle of boss fights before |
| 04:32.19 | NightHawkTheSane | eh, batteries, even regarable battery packs, die eventually |
| 04:32.32 | ZorbaBeta | I agree wireless sucks without that feature, which is why I really wish more people made this :( |
| 04:32.37 | NightHawkTheSane | but, what mouse do you use out of curiosity? |
| 04:32.38 | ZorbaBeta | yeah, if these die I'll just buy a replacement mouse |
| 04:32.51 | ZorbaBeta | I imagine I'll be able to find working versions for at least five or ten more years |
| 04:32.53 | ZorbaBeta | Logitech G7 |
| 04:33.14 | NightHawkTheSane | hmm. might take a look at it. I am in the market for a new mouse. I was probably going to just get another MX something or other |
| 04:33.28 | ZorbaBeta | it is, IMHO, the best mouse I've used, the only downside being that it's a little low on buttons |
| 04:33.31 | ZorbaBeta | (4) |
| 04:33.51 | NightHawkTheSane | ah, ew. yeah. i like my.. 8 buttons on my mx510 :) |
| 04:34.33 | ZorbaBeta | I'd absolutely love a G7-style battery pack with a bunch more buttons |
| 04:34.36 | ZorbaBeta | but not available :( |
| 04:36.34 | Amarande | <--- Logitech G9 |
| 04:39.58 | Bruners | G5! |
| 04:51.57 | Amarande | ok, I'm foggy on this now |
| 04:52.04 | Amarande | is it two minutes or two hours for the sellback trick for tokens? |
| 04:54.31 | NightHawkTheSane | night folks |
| 04:55.55 | Shirik | <--- Logitech MX1100 |
| 04:56.40 | ZorbaBeta | 2hr |
| 04:56.54 | ZorbaBeta | you only need 350 tokens to get all the achievements and end up with 150 tokens left over |
| 04:57.05 | ZorbaBeta | (pink elekk pet, plus 50 more) |
| 04:57.39 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan@c-76-107-191-65.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 05:03.43 | Shishire | muahaha. 19 button mouse (built-in Numpad) |
| 05:12.41 | Bruners | it is still possible to do the achivement without the sellback ? |
| 05:12.59 | Bruners | if you do all daily quests and get a decent ammount of tokens from a the ram thing |
| 05:19.34 | Brunera | /exit |
| 05:46.04 | *** join/#wowuidev bleeter_ (n=bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 05:55.28 | *** join/#wowuidev evonder (n=evonder@adsl-71-131-178-53.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 05:58.36 | Shirik | jnwhiteh: ping |
| 06:02.42 | Amarande | lord, I just got four direbrew trinkets |
| 06:02.45 | Amarande | now which one should I use ... |
| 06:03.05 | Amarande | I've got one that gives +98 spellpower but is otherwise useless, because I don't have any healing spells |
| 06:03.27 | Amarande | one that gives crit rating and chance to increase spell power by 590 for 10 sec proc |
| 06:03.39 | Amarande | a totally useless thing that only gives dodge rating |
| 06:03.45 | Amarande | and one of the +170 stam brewmaiden ones. |
| 06:05.30 | Amarande | I also still feel like I didn't really *earn* the Down with the Dark Iron achievement ... LOL |
| 06:11.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 06:20.35 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, the crit rating is the one that's designed for dps casters |
| 06:26.36 | Wobin | it's a mirror to the badge trinket |
| 06:26.41 | Wobin | so you can have two of them |
| 06:37.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (n=Srosh@d019126.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 06:38.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Doow (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/doow) |
| 06:54.27 | jpmorgan | do they combine occasionally? +2000 att? |
| 06:57.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (n=Vilkku@86-60-147-185-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi) |
| 06:57.40 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (i=smcn@67.166.76.157) |
| 07:05.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (n=caleb@81.183.138.34) |
| 07:06.32 | Adys | Could someone help me out there. |
| 07:06.33 | Adys | http://api.recaptcha.net/image?c=02PTH1fmreCtevvG3UupJMdgtiP6D5ZGgcEs3Q-lubbfrE-fbndHamPc1fR6-6SgGOhcALfVGSGqspyVXgjs7aPpOCFfOUa6q1rnpQ80fv9Br7HsgJZy2ov_2T76RRtTnHWOhvDBGPtN0f1Kk8DTkT4A4L6ujG9RdbFsffvFX-lKaxHB9KyMFkfO4BtZVDX6PR0yiSQKMKbeAWSqAUNRr7OdxTCZZvm9Ufa6SHnSDWeS_pvYWs-LYbQzTKi4R287oRtxSEthmL10CbMT2AdKkVrSJGIuoB |
| 07:06.43 | Adys | I dont remember if recaptcha saves sessions |
| 07:06.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Kazie (n=Kazie@port207.ds1-vg.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 07:06.44 | Adys | but |
| 07:06.50 | Adys | WTF is the one at the right? |
| 07:07.13 | tekkub | certificates |
| 07:07.35 | Adys | that doesnt look like a "certi" |
| 07:07.39 | Adys | more like an |
| 07:07.43 | Adys | "obrill" |
| 07:07.48 | Adys | i dunno |
| 07:08.02 | Shirik | :/ |
| 07:08.04 | Shirik | I think |
| 07:08.10 | Shirik | my cable modem is moving faster than my router |
| 07:08.19 | Shirik | I have never seen the windows progress dialog so consistent in my life |
| 07:08.22 | Adys | you really should leave them in a corner |
| 07:08.29 | Adys | its nor normal they move at all |
| 07:08.33 | Shirik | it says I've been downloading at 828KB/sec for the last 3 minutes |
| 07:08.44 | Shirik | what is that |
| 07:08.54 | Shirik | lua> 828 * 8 / 1024 |
| 07:08.55 | lua_bot | Shirik: 6.46875 |
| 07:09.31 | Shirik | I wonder if I don't have a 100mbps port |
| 07:09.36 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR (n=brandonm@24.114.252.238) |
| 07:09.53 | *** part/#wowuidev Iriel (n=Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 07:13.06 | DWSR | Anyone know what the rate at which points are gathered in Arathi Basin? |
| 07:13.16 | DWSR | Trying to figure out a plan for We Had It All Along |
| 07:18.50 | *** join/#wowuidev isman (n=drag@mlr78-3-88-162-68-235.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 07:22.14 | tem | DWSR, the plan for that is "Get Lucky" |
| 07:26.43 | Fisker | slaps Shirik around a bit with a large trout |
| 07:52.33 | Shirik | well my continuous integration server finally works |
| 07:52.37 | Shirik | it thinks I'm a moron |
| 07:52.38 | Shirik | but it works |
| 07:53.02 | Shirik | "Build 47 fixed 4 tests and passed. It is the first to pass since build 27." |
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| 08:02.51 | Adys | DWSR: there are some bg addons |
| 08:02.53 | Adys | with rates in them |
| 08:03.24 | DWSR | Adys: I know that DBM can tell me the predicted scores. |
| 08:03.33 | Adys | iirc, per second, its something like 0.2, 0.5, 1.0, 3.0, 20.0 |
| 08:03.41 | Adys | (for 1 2 3 4 5 bases) |
| 08:03.42 | DWSR | yeah. |
| 08:03.55 | Adys | well what then? |
| 08:03.58 | DWSR | I dunno what it is, but I just need it so I can find out when exactly we need to 3 cap the other team in order to get it. |
| 08:04.05 | DWSR | I guess I'll search some source. |
| 08:14.47 | Shirik | IT fails again... |
| 08:14.57 | Shirik | REPORT of '/svn/rep/ecocar-idea/!svn/vcc/default': Could not read response |
| 08:14.58 | Shirik | body: Secure connection truncated (https://eclipse.db.erau.edu) |
| 08:15.04 | Shirik | sighs |
| 08:15.19 | DWSR | truncates Shiibot |
| 08:15.22 | DWSR | tab fail. |
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| 08:15.41 | DWSR | You know where that was going. |
| 08:15.45 | DWSR | ~lart Shirik |
| 08:15.45 | purl | slaps Shirik upside the head with a wet fish |
| 08:15.55 | Zyn | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVfV2OzEHwg |
| 08:15.58 | Zyn | ._. |
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| 09:10.02 | Amarande | good thing: it was not that hard to sneak past Mother Smolderweb. |
| 09:10.19 | Amarande | bad thing: it costs several soul shards to do so. thankfully I was able to get a decent number off of Coren during the two runs I was in tonight. |
| 09:11.41 | Dagmar | Onyxia's a bitch as BM |
| 09:11.59 | Dagmar | I'm going to have to cook up some macros for the next time |
| 09:12.24 | Dagmar | i r not huntard who puts pet in aggro mode in there |
| 09:13.02 | Dagmar | ...but it was really tempting to try it. |
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| 09:23.34 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
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| 09:54.42 | zenzelezz | for some reason I'm amused by this error message... "An unexpected error occurred. The error has been logged. Go to the front page and try again." |
| 09:54.46 | zenzelezz | ... well thank you, I was trying to load the front page |
| 09:55.19 | nevcairiel | .. so you thought! |
| 09:55.24 | zenzelezz | I was |
| 09:55.41 | zenzelezz | but I was using the URL without "www.", if I prepend that then it works |
| 09:55.49 | zenzelezz | so many websites get that wrong for some reason |
| 09:59.23 | Dagmar | Because they believe in hostnames? |
| 09:59.42 | Dagmar | foo.com is not a host name. It's a domain name. It's not appropriate to assign that to a host. |
| 10:00.33 | zenzelezz | any worthwhile website will route "foo.com" to the intended home hostname for the site instead of spitting an error |
| 10:00.56 | zenzelezz | just use the appropriate HTTP header and most browsers remember it anyway, IIRC |
| 10:01.27 | Arrowmaster | permanently moved redirection to the www. subdomain |
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| 10:15.22 | Amarande | Pro tip, Galgann. Try swearing on the beard of someone other than the guy I just killed in my last dungeon run. :) |
| 10:16.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Aelobin (n=Aelobin@85.210.19.116) |
| 10:17.00 | tem | There are some NPCs that yell "By Thorim's beard!" |
| 10:17.06 | Aelobin | rawr |
| 10:17.09 | tem | ... but Thorim doesn't have a beard |
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| 10:23.30 | olafski | thorazon's beard |
| 10:24.34 | olafski | ..right? |
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| 10:42.27 | Arrowmaster | i just heard fucking cats outside around my ponds again in the middle of the night, i need to barrow my friends paintball gun that should be a good 'discouragement' |
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| 12:05.29 | Cruciformer | 'lo all |
| 12:20.36 | Cruciformer | god im bored |
| 12:27.22 | Shishire | most "fire" in boss fights uses a debuff to actually deal damage, right? |
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| 12:33.09 | Wobin | I didn't notice a debuff on Onyxia's deep breath |
| 12:33.14 | Wobin | but then I wasn't looking too closely |
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| 12:41.03 | Shishire | no no, like "Don't Stand in the Fire" kind of fire. |
| 12:43.22 | Gnarfoz | well, not necessarily ^^ |
| 12:43.36 | nevcairiel | not always |
| 12:43.45 | nevcairiel | or it could be too late when you have the debuff already |
| 12:44.09 | Wobin | I would rate Ony's deep breath as definitely a "Don't Stand in the Fire" fire =P |
| 12:44.45 | Wobin | also, as one raid member reiterated today |
| 12:44.54 | Wobin | In Onyxia's lair, DON'T BE A TAILFAIL |
| 12:45.02 | nevcairiel | heh |
| 12:45.59 | Wobin | Ony's not too bad for a pug instance |
| 12:46.04 | Wobin | since you can't get locked by a failpug |
| 12:46.20 | nevcairiel | thats true |
| 12:49.35 | mikma | ~tem++ |
| 13:07.06 | Shishire | Well, I'm writing an addon called Firefighter. You can guess what it does. The idea being that I always screw up on stuff like Razorscale's Devouring Flame and such. |
| 13:07.58 | Stanzilla | o_o |
| 13:08.17 | nevcairiel | Once an addon can tell you that you are in a flame, its too late |
| 13:08.23 | nevcairiel | srsly |
| 13:09.24 | Stanzilla | if you fail at razorscale you should work on your playstyle not on an addon :P |
| 13:12.08 | Wobin | unfortunately true |
| 13:12.20 | Wobin | although, I know Bigwigs tells you if you're standing in flame |
| 13:12.32 | nevcairiel | does razorscale still focus on people directly below him? |
| 13:12.39 | nevcairiel | havent been there for a while :P |
| 13:12.40 | Wobin | (her) |
| 13:12.47 | nevcairiel | whateva |
| 13:12.48 | nevcairiel | ! |
| 13:12.59 | nevcairiel | its a unisex name :P |
| 13:13.01 | Wobin | I never actually notice where she flies |
| 13:13.08 | Wobin | yeah, but she's a -brood mother- |
| 13:13.55 | Wobin | I always assumed she went and did circles of her normal starting tower when she was in the air |
| 13:14.02 | Wobin | since all the pets on her run to the edge |
| 13:14.08 | Wobin | (and burn themselves up in flames) |
| 13:14.42 | A-KO | dbm tells you when you're standing in fire, too |
| 13:14.47 | A-KO | it plays a loud fucking trumpet-like sound |
| 13:14.51 | A-KO | when you're taking damage from it |
| 13:15.30 | Wobin | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:15.35 | foxlit | You know what I want? An addon that'd set up all the zomg-incoming-damage debuffs to show up on Grid. |
| 13:15.50 | Wobin | hm |
| 13:15.59 | Wobin | kind of like the incoming heal, but reversed? |
| 13:16.00 | foxlit | Manually adding the various poison/curse/fire effects for every encounter kind of sucks :/ |
| 13:16.16 | nevcairiel | wasnt there GridRaidDebuffs or something? |
| 13:16.17 | Wobin | I wonder how you'd colour it |
| 13:16.36 | foxlit | Wobin: Personally, I just show it as a center icon. |
| 13:16.36 | nevcairiel | GridStatusRaidDebuff |
| 13:16.40 | nevcairiel | but probably not maintained anymore |
| 13:16.49 | Wobin | yeah, for stuff I can cleanse |
| 13:16.57 | nevcairiel | oh wait, it even got an update just 9 hours ago =P |
| 13:16.57 | foxlit | Nah, that's fail. |
| 13:16.58 | Wobin | I don't bother putting up stuff I can't control directly |
| 13:17.18 | foxlit | Stuff I can remove shows up as a colored border. I don't particularly need to know what it is. |
| 13:17.44 | Wobin | potions of endless sleep? =) |
| 13:17.59 | foxlit | I don't have a magic dispel, your potions are safe :) |
| 13:18.06 | Wobin | I remember using those in AQ20 |
| 13:18.27 | foxlit | But it's stuff like Koralon fires. |
| 13:19.00 | Wobin | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:19.10 | foxlit | Poisons from the northren beasts |
| 13:19.16 | Wobin | mostly due to the terrible alliance:horde ratio on my server |
| 13:19.33 | foxlit | The black knight's +100% magic damage effect. |
| 13:20.18 | foxlit | Lord Jaraxxus' healing absorbtion. |
| 13:20.19 | Wobin | can that be decursed? |
| 13:20.24 | foxlit | No. |
| 13:20.25 | Wobin | the BK's one |
| 13:20.39 | foxlit | It's typeless, I think. |
| 13:20.50 | Wobin | cause I usually just chainheal through the third phase =P |
| 13:21.19 | Wobin | and pop both haste trinkets on =P |
| 13:21.41 | foxlit | http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=67823 |
| 13:22.16 | Wobin | everyone bunches up, I Bloodlust |
| 13:22.18 | foxlit | Ignis' slag pot effect. |
| 13:22.24 | Wobin | then I chain chainheals til he's dead |
| 13:22.42 | Wobin | (and hope the dps is enough) |
| 13:22.43 | foxlit | Thing is, you're still better off casting chain heals at the debuffed person :) |
| 13:22.54 | Wobin | yeah, well, the big arrow helps |
| 13:23.11 | Wobin | but I see your point |
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| 13:40.51 | p3lim | anyone got an interface diff 3.2.2 > 3.2.2a? |
| 13:40.57 | p3lim | if there are any changes that is |
| 13:41.34 | p3lim | had alot of error reports on my map addon when 3.2.2 arrived, but they are gone with the new patch |
| 14:00.00 | Pneumatus | errors regarding scaling being wrong? |
| 14:06.28 | Aelobin | there was some bug fix to WG walls on the map? :P |
| 14:06.36 | p3lim | no, map losing its graphic and adding a black outline |
| 14:06.56 | p3lim | http://i37.tinypic.com/3130owi.jpg |
| 14:07.41 | p3lim | also scaling issues, as you said, but thats fixed now it seems |
| 14:07.47 | p3lim | id still like a diff file though |
| 14:08.31 | nevcairiel | I have one, but i'm not sharing. I'm just evil like that =) |
| 14:15.38 | Aelobin | hmm i keep getting an error with table.concat saying that the table contains non-strings :S |
| 14:15.52 | nevcairiel | so .. change that? |
| 14:16.11 | Aelobin | but they are strings :P so i dont understand |
| 14:16.25 | nevcairiel | apparently not |
| 14:16.38 | Aelobin | oh stupid me |
| 14:16.54 | Aelobin | i did concat between 1 and 13, where the number could be anywhere between those |
| 14:17.02 | Aelobin | so it was trying to concat nil when the number < 13 |
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| 14:19.36 | nevcairiel | see, it wasnt a string :P |
| 14:19.59 | Wobin | http://inudge.net/inudge#/ejt7 |
| 14:20.17 | Wobin | this is kinda addictive |
| 14:22.06 | foxlit | Wobin: hm, a grid. |
| 14:22.11 | foxlit | I demand they implement the game of life on it. |
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| 15:03.29 | Conflict | Hey anyone here play around with the BTP bot released at Defcon? |
| 15:04.03 | nevcairiel | the what? |
| 15:05.04 | Conflict | lol, explaining any better wouldnt help. If ya didnt know what I meant you're prolly not gonna be much help to me. |
| 15:09.15 | Conflict | Anybody here go to Defcon 17? |
| 15:09.43 | A-KO | nope |
| 15:10.05 | nevcairiel | Its in the US, way too far away =p |
| 15:10.53 | Conflict | damn |
| 15:11.18 | Conflict | Well, an AMAZING bot was introduced there and the author completely released the code and stepped away from the project. |
| 15:11.40 | Conflict | Run 100% by blizzards API it is vitually undetectable |
| 15:13.17 | mikma | link or it didn't happen |
| 15:14.35 | Conflict | Its called Behead The Prophet, or BTP. Google it should be like the second link |
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| 15:18.46 | nevcairiel | as far as i can see it uses color-scanning, nothing new :P |
| 15:21.57 | foxlit | "#18 I can haz pizza?" "# 19 IZ pizza cute?" << Whee. |
| 15:23.07 | foxlit | Asking CS students to make up their own team names sure makes for an interesting scoreboard. |
| 15:23.25 | nevcairiel | obviously |
| 15:23.30 | nevcairiel | we only ever got numbers |
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| 15:23.35 | nevcairiel | no names :( |
| 15:24.13 | foxlit | "DROP TABLE teams" |
| 15:24.32 | Wobin | you forgot the ';' |
| 15:24.43 | foxlit | Wobin: no. |
| 15:24.49 | foxlit | The contest organizers actually complained. |
| 15:24.56 | Wobin | you're joking? |
| 15:25.23 | foxlit | The original was "'); DROP TABLE teams;", but they ended up getting it changed. |
| 15:25.34 | Wobin | -how- can you run a contest for CS students without sanitizing the names =P |
| 15:26.02 | Wobin | "We call him Little Bobby Tables, for short" =P |
| 15:26.06 | foxlit | There's also the fact that it wouldn't work with the typical PHP/MYSQL setup |
| 15:26.13 | foxlit | since mysql_query doesn't run multiple queries. |
| 15:26.20 | nevcairiel | it doesnt? |
| 15:26.29 | nevcairiel | i suppose i never tried |
| 15:28.56 | foxlit | Anyway, it wasn't the lack of escaping, but rather concern lack of escaping in the future. |
| 15:29.08 | foxlit | Or something along those lines; still sounds silly. |
| 15:29.41 | nevcairiel | I just run mysql_escape or whatever the function is called on string values, and hope that mysql itself knows what to escape |
| 15:29.50 | Wobin | parameters =) |
| 15:29.59 | foxlit | mysql_real_escape_string << yeah, not that "fake" escape string. |
| 15:30.21 | nevcairiel | if MS were to code php, it would be mysql_escape_string_ex |
| 15:30.32 | nevcairiel | or much rather MysqlEscapeStringEx :P |
| 15:30.35 | Wobin | thankfully LINQ automatically parameterises inputs |
| 15:30.47 | Wobin | what is the verb format of parameter? |
| 15:31.03 | nevcairiel | i never worked with LINQ |
| 15:31.09 | foxlit | Wobin: just verb the word. |
| 15:31.11 | nevcairiel | and i doubt i will in the near future |
| 15:31.14 | Wobin | it's quite nifty |
| 15:31.20 | foxlit | Verbing nouns is a good pastime. |
| 15:31.37 | Wobin | if for the simple ability to run sql queries on collections of items |
| 15:32.12 | foxlit | "Verbing weirds language" |
| 15:32.20 | nevcairiel | My bachelor thesis is about web-application-frameworks, but i'm not sure how much i'll look at asp.net |
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| 15:33.04 | Wobin | well for completeness sake, I'd hope you'd at least cover the basics =) |
| 15:33.24 | nevcairiel | I suppose |
| 15:33.50 | nevcairiel | The company i do it for isn't much into MS stuff |
| 15:34.01 | foxlit | http://www.ourlocalstyle.com/images/uploadImages/2006/05/03/cnhVerbingWeirdsLanguage.gif |
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| 15:34.58 | Wobin | foxlit, C&H often has the answer to everything |
| 15:35.09 | Wobin | It's like XKCD, but decades ahead of it's time =P |
| 15:35.40 | Wobin | nevcairiel, hehe, all I do now at my job is .Net =) |
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| 15:45.47 | NightHawkTheSane | now coming to you live from the emonds-kingston ferry via his tethered g1 |
| 15:48.16 | Wobin | *toot toot* |
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| 15:49.00 | NightHawkTheSane | lag's a bitch though |
| 15:49.10 | NightHawkTheSane | even irc sucks over edge |
| 15:49.26 | foxlit | 1 |
| 15:49.26 | foxlit | 2 |
| 15:49.34 | nevcairiel | maybe you should sign up for 3G then! |
| 15:49.35 | foxlit | 3 |
| 15:49.57 | NightHawkTheSane | nevcairiel: I have it. no 3g on the water though >< |
| 15:55.36 | NightHawkTheSane | anyway, ciao. |
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| 17:46.01 | alexut | Hi, is there a good debugger for wow addons? thinking of stepping through some code |
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| 18:52.42 | Arrowmaster | alexut: doesnt exist |
| 18:54.26 | Arrowmaster | i think roadrunner hates me |
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| 18:54.58 | Arrowmaster | just checked my stats and im at 255GB down since the beginning of the month and ive still got a few days to go |
| 18:56.15 | industrial | you have pre-paid internet? :S |
| 18:56.27 | Arrowmaster | unlimited cable |
| 18:56.47 | industrial | to what do you have some to go then? |
| 18:57.07 | Arrowmaster | few day left in the month |
| 18:57.13 | Arrowmaster | so i could push it even higher |
| 18:57.25 | nevcairiel | if its unlimited, what does it matter? :p |
| 18:57.53 | Arrowmaster | they have a premium service too which i dont have, they probably want me to upgrade |
| 18:58.57 | industrial | if there is a relation between money spent and bandwidth used then the term unlimited is misused? |
| 18:59.39 | kd3 | they skirt around that by saying 'you can be connected 24/7, compared to dialup plans with hour limits' |
| 18:59.41 | Arrowmaster | roadrunner was wanting to switch to metered tiers |
| 18:59.43 | kd3 | >.> |
| 19:00.00 | Arrowmaster | but they changed their plans due to public disapproval |
| 19:00.22 | Arrowmaster | they wanted to cap the basic plan at 40GB total up and down |
| 19:00.38 | industrial | <epeen>I have 60/6mbit and unlimited bandwidth and no fair-use policy either</epeen> |
| 19:00.55 | Arrowmaster | die |
| 19:01.07 | Arrowmaster | ive only got 8mbit/512kbit |
| 19:01.22 | kd3 | I hate all of you |
| 19:01.27 | kd3 | looks at his 1.5/128 and cries |
| 19:01.36 | industrial | you can get 120/10 to homes here too |
| 19:01.40 | industrial | and soon fiber |
| 19:01.42 | Arrowmaster | you probably are paying less though |
| 19:01.55 | industrial | fiber zomg, to my house. I must need it. |
| 19:01.59 | Arrowmaster | $59.99 USD here |
| 19:02.14 | Cide | 100/100 for $8/mo |
| 19:02.16 | Arrowmaster | im still waiting for FiOS |
| 19:02.16 | Cide | go sweden |
| 19:02.21 | Arrowmaster | Cide: die |
| 19:02.26 | industrial | guess I'm paying around $75 |
| 19:02.28 | industrial | Cide: 8 how |
| 19:02.39 | kd3 | begs for the 'punch someone over the internet' device |
| 19:02.49 | Cide | it was set up for some 40-50 apartments |
| 19:02.52 | industrial | the fiber (100/100) here will be around $50 i think |
| 19:02.56 | Cide | out of which 3 used it, but everyone paid |
| 19:03.07 | industrial | lol nice |
| 19:06.40 | Arrowmaster | im still waiting on hold on xbox customer service so i can make some tier1 tech cry |
| 19:08.07 | industrial | hehehe |
| 19:08.23 | Arrowmaster | they broke my console so they damn well better pay to fix it |
| 19:08.35 | industrial | its fun when you pick up the phone and supply everything they are going to ask you right away |
| 19:08.39 | industrial | I do it with my ISP |
| 19:09.08 | Arrowmaster | if i try that with my ISP i just get told not to get ahead of them |
| 19:09.09 | industrial | it's hard to call them with the connection down though, since its on the same line as internet/tv :\ |
| 19:09.16 | Arrowmaster | since its some guy in a callcenter in india |
| 19:09.42 | industrial | oh its other dutch people here, I once even got to speak with a technician who could tell me what was really going on |
| 19:10.11 | industrial | they were rolling out patches on their hardware and he counted down the reboot and a few secs later I got my connection :p was pretty cool |
| 19:13.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=Tuller@pool-96-248-0-53.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) |
| 19:22.52 | Tuller | I have the fiber |
| 19:23.06 | Tuller | its something like $60 for 25 down/15 up |
| 19:24.12 | Arrowmaster | fucking tier1 tech wouldnt transfer me so i hungup on the bitch |
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| 19:45.28 | Shirik | Arrowmaster: How did they break your console? |
| 19:46.10 | Arrowmaster | xbox live update this week that flashed the stage1 boot loader to counter some new hack |
| 19:46.50 | Arrowmaster | when mine when to reboot after the update it never turned back on |
| 19:47.09 | Arrowmaster | it just flashed ports 1 2 and 3 red |
| 19:47.30 | Arrowmaster | (1 3 and 4 is the general hardware failure rrod) |
| 19:50.29 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (n=kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 19:51.01 | Shirik | nice Arrowmaster |
| 19:51.47 | Arrowmaster | im going to call back later and try to get a supervisor |
| 19:52.14 | mikma | http://mikma.eu/wow/WoWScrnShot_092609_224221.jpg <- ZEEEEERG! |
| 19:55.09 | Arrowmaster | considering that after a 2006 update bricked a bunch of consoles and a man filed a class action law suit and they settled under confidential terms i wonder if mentioning that i might end up calling my lawyer would effect how they handle it |
| 19:55.20 | Arrowmaster | i just want my console repaired for free |
| 19:59.53 | Shirik | Arrowmaster, interestingly enough |
| 20:00.27 | Shirik | when I worked at Best Buy, as soon as someone made any kind of legal threat, I was no longer allowed to talk to the person. I was required to immediately bring him to someone above me. :P |
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| 20:00.48 | Arrowmaster | good |
| 20:00.58 | Arrowmaster | ill email majornelson if i have to |
| 20:01.12 | Arrowmaster | i am NOT fucking paying $100 to get this repaired |
| 20:01.47 | Arrowmaster | since i intended to purchase the modern warfare 2 bundle on november 10th for $399 anyway |
| 20:05.28 | Arrowmaster | if they tell me i have to wait 4 weeks to get a replacement then i would rather just get 2 months of free xbl since i cant use it, and a discount on the new console or some free points |
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| 20:19.19 | Tuller | i'm still debating if i want to get a 360 because of forza or not |
| 20:21.22 | Fisker | no mercy for the weak Tuller |
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| 20:21.37 | Tuller | that I do not get |
| 20:22.38 | Fisker | xbawks is for the weak |
| 20:22.54 | Tuller | ah |
| 20:24.02 | Tuller | the ps3 for me is more of a hedge: the worst case I have a blu ray player |
| 20:24.33 | Fisker | ok i'll rephrase |
| 20:24.38 | Fisker | consoles are for the weak |
| 20:24.41 | p3lim | hm |
| 20:25.02 | Tuller | I prefer the console gaming experience, with some exceptions |
| 20:25.24 | Fisker | takes out a gun |
| 20:25.49 | Tuller | now, I never got into that "online" thing they talk about though :P |
| 20:27.11 | Tuller | but some games just play better with a controller, much like how some games play better with a keyboard + mouse |
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| 20:30.50 | Aelobin | rawr |
| 20:30.50 | Gryphon | ono i esceared of teh rawr! i need a huggle. |
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| 20:51.30 | Conflict | Anyone in here yet today is has played with the BTP bot released at Defcon? |
| 20:51.41 | Conflict | who has* |
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| 20:53.31 | Cide | let me guess that it's against the eula/tos? |
| 20:53.47 | nevcairiel | surely |
| 20:53.58 | foxlit | "in here yet today is has" << parse error near "yet" |
| 20:54.09 | nevcairiel | uses colorerd pixels to get data out |
| 20:54.14 | nevcairiel | no new ideas in it, really :P |
| 20:54.25 | Cide | that idea is older than the internetz |
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| 21:01.40 | mikma | cairenn: http://kuvaton.com/kuvei/linney_formations.jpg |
| 21:05.18 | Cairenn | mikma: rofl |
| 21:15.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 21:15.16 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 21:17.02 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (n=kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 21:18.30 | zenzelezz | http://icanhascheezburger.com/2009/09/25/funny-pictures-in-my-food/ |
| 21:22.23 | Cairenn | lol |
| 21:23.00 | zenzelezz | Cairenn: do you also suspect ThunderChild submitted that one? Him and his constant puns |
| 21:23.08 | Cairenn | hehehe |
| 21:24.26 | Cairenn | loves puns |
| 21:24.56 | zenzelezz | does too |
| 21:25.17 | Cide | I've been pundering recently |
| 21:25.32 | zenzelezz | Cairenn: I'm sure we could have some real pun together |
| 21:25.38 | Cairenn | ;) |
| 21:26.02 | Cide | oh god, what a horrible punishment |
| 21:26.07 | Shirik | ... |
| 21:26.11 | Shirik | you all need t odie |
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| 21:26.23 | zenzelezz | looks like TC infected Shirik |
| 21:29.07 | Cide | it's not punlikely |
| 21:37.12 | Cide | someone needs to publish a book on puns |
| 21:37.16 | Cide | but maybe it's been done |
| 21:38.13 | ZorbaBeta | some sort of a compendipun |
| 21:38.13 | Cide | can't be from anyone though |
| 21:38.23 | Cide | the author has to be a real pundit |
| 21:38.28 | zenzelezz | ZorbaBeta: compundium |
| 21:38.39 | ZorbaBeta | zenzelezz, point for you |
| 21:38.44 | Arrowmaster | ok fuck Team NINJA |
| 21:38.57 | Arrowmaster | i just played the Ninja Gaiden SIGMA 2 demo on ps3 |
| 21:39.14 | Arrowmaster | its fucking Ninja Gaiden 2 from the 360 but with more |
| 21:39.38 | ZorbaBeta | aagh don't give me your account name when sending me data files |
| 21:39.40 | Cide | a new game adding on to a previous game? TRAVESTY |
| 21:40.21 | zenzelezz | it sounds like it's basically Ninja Gaiden 2, but with more sigma |
| 21:40.27 | Arrowmaster | it seems "Only on Xbox 360" has been redefined to mean "Beta version of much better PS3 game, and you have to pay for both" |
| 21:40.45 | nevcairiel | be glad that they release demos :P |
| 21:41.04 | Arrowmaster | Ninja Gaiden 2 demo wasnt out until after the game was released |
| 21:41.30 | Arrowmaster | im still going to end up having to get sigma 2 now though |
| 21:41.36 | Arrowmaster | Ayane is a playable character |
| 21:41.56 | Cide | can you wiggle her breasts with the sixaxis? |
| 21:42.06 | Arrowmaster | maybe |
| 21:42.18 | Arrowmaster | but shes just too cute with the big pink bow on her back |
| 21:42.18 | Cide | I gotta get a ps3 |
| 21:43.08 | nevcairiel | you buy a game because of a cute set of pixels? :P |
| 21:43.13 | Arrowmaster | and her attacks are just fucking insane, i got to like a 40 hit combo during my first attack |
| 21:43.25 | Cide | nevcairiel: well, why do you buy games? |
| 21:44.43 | nevcairiel | Usually because the game is fun, not because it has some female char in it :P also, if its nearly the same game as before, my point is even reinforced :P |
| 21:45.08 | Arrowmaster | you can also use two projectiles at once now, on ryu i had one button that used the default unlimited shurikens and another that used the bow, except the bow also had unlimited ammo, not sure if thats just because of the demo or not |
| 21:46.57 | *** part/#wowuidev Movix (n=Movix@mail.schiffmann.fr) |
| 21:47.01 | zenzelezz | you buy a game with a cute female playable character because it's so much easier to get them to pose than real cute girls |
| 21:47.28 | nevcairiel | download pron already |
| 21:47.39 | zenzelezz | porn isn't interactive (usually) |
| 21:49.44 | Arrowmaster | from the idle menu video it looks likes theres atleast 3 playable characters, maybe 4 i think one was a different character but it could have been a different outfit but i really dont think it was just a different outfit |
| 21:54.38 | Kaso | whats the equivalent of tab-targetting in macro? |
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| 21:59.38 | nevcairiel | Kaso, /targetenemy |
| 22:00.44 | Kaso | thanks |
| 22:05.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Unindal (n=chatzill@adsl-99-21-182-35.dsl.covlil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:05.34 | Unindal | hello |
| 22:06.10 | Unindal | looking for an example on how to add a frame to an existing standard wow frame ... anyone? |
| 22:10.17 | zenzelezz | any particular frame? |
| 22:10.21 | Unindal | effectively what I am trying to do is add a button to TradeSkillSkillX frame |
| 22:10.49 | Unindal | an example of any frame would work though |
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| 22:46.28 | Unindal | is there a way to determine which tradeskill is open say Jewelcrafting vs Enchanting ? |
| 22:47.06 | Unindal | i am hooked into the TRADE_SKILL_SHOW event but dont know the exact tradeskill I am in |
| 22:48.48 | industrial | my guess is find a fontstring in the frame with text in it eg the title |
| 22:49.10 | industrial | but thats probably not the way to go :p |
| 22:49.32 | Unindal | hey thats a start at least ... see what I can do |
| 22:49.56 | Shadowed | no :p |
| 22:49.58 | Shadowed | bad industrial |
| 22:50.31 | Unindal | improved idea? |
| 22:50.31 | industrial | hey it worked with the gossip |
| 22:50.35 | Shadowed | Unindal you used GetTradeSkillLine() |
| 22:50.40 | Shadowed | use* |
| 22:50.42 | industrial | but blizz doesnt havea anpi for that |
| 22:50.44 | industrial | there we go, heh |
| 22:50.45 | industrial | :p |
| 22:51.00 | industrial | have an API* |
| 22:52.39 | Unindal | thank you Shadowed ... perfect |
| 22:53.49 | Shadowed | np |
| 22:59.47 | Grimsin | So is their somthing i should know about useing Adobe CS4 that is different then older versions? no mater what i do graphics i created with CS4 all end up sideways once in WOW and flipping them this direction and that does not change the problem. |
| 23:00.45 | Shirik | ? |
| 23:00.56 | Shirik | I am willing to bet that's not CS4's fault |
| 23:01.20 | Grimsin | then what is it? i tried useing xnview, gimp, paint, adobe cs4 and adobe 7 |
| 23:02.12 | Grimsin | i used to be able to make a png with adobe then open the png with xnview and save it as a tga then usa blp to tga and i was good to go... not working now |
| 23:02.44 | Shirik | why don't you just make it as a tga in CS4? |
| 23:03.01 | Grimsin | when i do that i lose the transparency |
| 23:03.33 | Shirik | If you make me open CS4 and I find an option to enable transparency, I am going to hurt you :P |
| 23:03.41 | Grimsin | LOL |
| 23:04.20 | Grimsin | im stil curious why the odd flipping around from program to program |
| 23:04.48 | Shirik | yeah um |
| 23:04.49 | Shirik | are you sure it doesn't work? |
| 23:04.49 | Grimsin | and according to the wow programing guide and stuff i read online you have to set the alpha channels but i did that and it still did not save the transperncy |
| 23:04.55 | Shirik | is your layer actually transparent and not white? |
| 23:05.08 | Grimsin | the layer is... the background is white but.... |
| 23:05.27 | Fisker | sneaks up on Shirik |
| 23:05.30 | Shirik | white != transparent |
| 23:05.34 | Grimsin | well i take that back the background is set to transparent how ever it shows up white if i save the tga with cs4 and load it into wow |
| 23:05.41 | Fisker | still sneaks up on Shirik |
| 23:05.43 | Grimsin | also shows white if i save the tga in cs4 and open it with anything else |
| 23:05.47 | Shirik | did you check the box that says "save alpha channels"? |
| 23:05.52 | Grimsin | yup |
| 23:06.01 | Shirik | :/ works for me |
| 23:06.11 | Grimsin | hmmm strange. |
| 23:06.14 | Fisker | continues to still sneak up on Shirik |
| 23:06.40 | Fisker | proceeds to continue to still sneak up on Shirik |
| 23:06.44 | Shirik | is it a checkerboard pattern or white? |
| 23:06.58 | Fisker | am i ever going to run out of words to put in front of it? |
| 23:07.14 | Fisker | continously proceeds to continue to still sneak up on Shirik |
| 23:11.02 | Grimsin | its checkerboard |
| 23:11.14 | Thunder_Child | Fisker proceeds to continusly proceed to continue to sneak up on Shirik in a sneaky manner while sneaking |
| 23:16.06 | foxlit | RE_Render_Line(argc > 2 ? argv[2] : "Oh hai") // Segmentation Fault |
| 23:19.41 | Shirik | well surely the argv[2] wouldn't cause a segfault anyway |
| 23:19.54 | Shirik | unless you really are that low on memory |
| 23:20.22 | Shirik | it may be invalid, but it wouldn't be outside of your accessible space, most likely |
| 23:20.45 | Shirik | so I'm going to take a guess and it has something to do with RE_Render_Line's internals |
| 23:20.51 | Shirik | like maybe it doesn't like a const char*? |
| 23:20.59 | Shirik | maybe it needs to modify it for some reason? |
| 23:21.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (n=Kaso@host86-145-163-1.range86-145.btcentralplus.com) |
| 23:23.28 | foxlit | Shirik: you're right in that it's not argv that's causing it; that function, however, is designed to take a const char * |
| 23:23.50 | Fisker | goodnight Shirik |
| 23:23.54 | Fisker | i hope you realize what you've done |
| 23:24.04 | zenzelezz | foxlit: where's this function? |
| 23:24.34 | foxlit | zenzelezz: I wrote it; you don't want to know :) |
| 23:25.39 | zenzelezz | if you wrote it yourself then debugging it shouldn't be too difficult, unless it really is some weird freak thing |
| 23:26.54 | *** join/#wowuidev bleeter_ (n=bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 23:28.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Movix1 (n=Movix@mail.schiffmann.fr) |
| 23:41.42 | Unindal | can anyone point me to some documentation on creating a frame inside another frame using Lua? |
| 23:43.03 | haste | local f = CreateFrame'Frame' CreateFrame'Frame':SetAllPoints(f) |
| 23:43.06 | haste | *hides* |
| 23:43.30 | haste | guess I should have done CreateFrame'Frame':SetAllPoints(CreateFrame'Frame') tho'.... |
| 23:43.39 | haste | for extra horribleness |
| 23:43.55 | Unindal | ok so it is as simple as just calling CreateFrame |
| 23:44.06 | Unindal | thanks |
| 23:44.20 | haste | yep |
| 23:44.41 | haste | just keep you mind on the parent, as that should be the frame you want to anchor to |
| 23:44.53 | Unindal | yep |
| 23:45.13 | Unindal | along the same lines .... |
| 23:45.53 | Unindal | if i want the new frame to be called identical to the parent frame just with a suffix, how could I do that? |
| 23:46.19 | Unindal | something with $parent? |
| 23:47.06 | zenzelezz | $parent doesn't work in lua |
| 23:47.21 | zenzelezz | you'd have to actually get the name of the frame manually and append to that |
| 23:47.21 | Unindal | is there an equivalent or just do like a string concat? |
| 23:47.34 | Unindal | kk next best guess |
| 23:47.41 | Unindal | thanks |
| 23:48.03 | smcn | i totally got fooled by the 3rd encounter w/scarecrow in arkham asylum :( |
| 23:49.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Dagmar (i=dagmar@unaffiliated/dagmar) |
| 23:52.08 | foxlit | wins a minor victory |
| 23:56.15 | foxlit | (http://www.go-hero.net/content/store/sub.png ) |
| 23:57.18 | mikma | fail to see.. funny |
| 23:59.02 | Dagmar | foxlit: Is that a commentary on the english subtitling? |
| 23:59.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 23:59.12 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 23:59.13 | Dagmar | The glyphs look better than most |
| 23:59.28 | foxlit | No. The "Not completely horrible" text is injected by me. |
| 23:59.45 | Dagmar | Oh, I figured it was translation |
