| 00:19.15 | *** join/#wowuidev purl (i=ibot@rikers.org) |
| 00:19.15 | *** topic/#wowuidev is http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ | 3.2.x ToC: 30200 | #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting | "Wasted time by wearing a starfish on my head. Starfish very very annoyed. Put starfish back. Starfish seemed happier." - Tierre |
| 00:54.38 | A-KO | http://www.youtube.com/user/SyntheticDreamsVids < that's pro shit right there |
| 01:17.02 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower (n=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 01:17.02 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ |
| 01:21.38 | A-KO | really dumb question, but what's the best way to get a specific amount of information out of a function? like if I want just the duration of a buff and the name?, but not everything? |
| 01:21.46 | WobWork | I cna't believe Lady Soverign has maligned The Cure in such a way |
| 01:22.25 | WobWork | A-KO: depending on where the results you're looking for are in the return list, you can either use select() or something like _,_, myval, myval2 = functionwithlotsofreturns() |
| 01:22.39 | A-KO | any cons to using select()? |
| 01:22.48 | WobWork | if what you're after are deep in the list, you're better off using select |
| 01:22.50 | Seerah | A-KO: you just use that information/variables or assign the stuff you don't want to a dummy var (like _, for example) |
| 01:23.10 | Seerah | just that it's an extra function call and doens't need to be used as often as it gets used |
| 01:23.23 | WobWork | but if it's, like, the first two variables, you can use var1, var2 = functioncallwithtwentyreturns() |
| 01:23.27 | WobWork | and it'll ignore the other 18 |
| 01:23.32 | mikma | http://kuvaton.com/kuvei/skills.gif |
| 01:24.31 | Seerah | hehehe |
| 01:28.39 | MentalPower|AFK | select() is really only useful when iterating over ... |
| 01:28.48 | MentalPower|AFK | s/useful/required/ |
| 01:30.31 | Shirik | I'm not sure I'd say that MentalPower|AFK |
| 01:30.38 | Shirik | I've seen it used in some table magic |
| 01:30.47 | Shirik | in batbot actually |
| 01:31.04 | MentalPower|AFK | tables and select? interesting |
| 01:31.43 | Shirik | The result of a function call is stored as {success, fn()} |
| 01:31.53 | Shirik | wait no |
| 01:32.02 | Shirik | {numReturns, fn()} |
| 01:32.35 | Shirik | then using unpack and select, you can pull out the right values from the table |
| 01:32.53 | MentalPower|AFK | nice |
| 01:32.54 | Shirik | it's hard to describe off the top of my head |
| 01:32.56 | Shirik | without seeing the code |
| 01:33.03 | MentalPower|AFK | I get the picture |
| 01:34.51 | Thunder_Child | thats an interesting ad. "guess right for a chance to win a green card" |
| 01:37.08 | Shirik | ? |
| 01:37.19 | WobWork | "You guessed left!" |
| 01:37.51 | mikma | damn |
| 01:38.13 | mikma | i hate those stealth-lightsabre nazies in wolfenstein |
| 01:53.01 | Thunder_Child | you do know what a green card is Shirik? |
| 01:53.06 | Shirik | yes... |
| 01:53.09 | Thunder_Child | ok |
| 02:02.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (i=amarande@68-191-37-155.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 02:02.53 | Amarande | wow, I can't believe I still join this channel as "#wowi-lounge" |
| 02:05.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Yssaril (n=Yssaril@99-57-35-190.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:05.56 | Cairenn | as long as the forward is on it, you'll always be able to |
| 02:06.29 | Cairenn | :) |
| 02:08.12 | Amarande | :) |
| 02:08.20 | Amarande | I'm just pondering how long it's been since we *were* #wowi-lounge :) |
| 02:09.15 | Amarande | also, whether it's at all reasonable to want to stay in my friends guild and at the same time actually see raid content regularly, or if these two goals are inherently conflicting :| |
| 02:09.15 | Amarande | I have got to move on from 5-mans |
| 02:09.30 | Amarande | come to think of it, other than badges and the related gear, I'm not sure Alvaerin really gains anything from 5-mans anymore |
| 02:09.38 | Amarande | well, assuming you still get tabard rep in raids. do you? I can't remember now |
| 02:11.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (n=chatzill@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 02:12.17 | Yssaril | Amarande: no rep in raids (at least in wotlk) |
| 02:12.23 | Amarande | dammit. |
| 02:12.26 | Amarande | so I still have to do those heroics. |
| 02:12.45 | Amarande | well, if I want the rep achievements anyway |
| 02:13.20 | Amarande | I'm actually kinda fuzzy on whether any of the factions other than Kirin Tor, which I'm already exalted with, really have much in the way of really great stuff for a JC/mining aff lock with heroic gear |
| 02:13.29 | Yssaril | pretty much all of them have a couple dailys accociated with them so just do those (takes a while but gets it done) |
| 02:13.47 | Amarande | right now I'm working on Wyrmrest Accord, since I think it at least has a JC pattern I don't know, and there's always the red drake mount |
| 02:13.53 | Yssaril | Amarande: bunch of JC patterns i think |
| 02:14.06 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 02:14.06 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 02:14.12 | Amarande | Even if I insist WotLK drake mounts are way too frumpy looking and the Netherwing Drakes are still by far the best looking mounts :) |
| 02:15.06 | Amarande | well, other than maybe the phoenix |
| 02:15.11 | Amarande | I'm still considering going for that |
| 02:15.20 | Amarande | how many reasonably geared 80s does it take to do The Eye now? |
| 02:18.13 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI (n=KarlKFI@ip68-231-217-61.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 02:24.22 | Amarande | considers beginning to do TK runs |
| 02:25.12 | Amarande | Not only is the Phoenix awesome looking and a FoS, but it's also never going to be overly common |
| 02:28.06 | Kraps | my patronus is a rabbit |
| 02:31.07 | *** join/#wowuidev PProvost (n=PProvost@c-71-229-131-32.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 02:39.46 | ZorbaTHut | amarande, I wouldn't worry too much about rep on the faction dungeons. either you'll get it, or you didn't need it. |
| 02:39.56 | ZorbaTHut | if you spend a bunch of time trying to get heroic achievements or heirlooms you'll basically pick the rep up naturally. |
| 02:42.35 | Jerub | is it bad that i still have only 1 mount? |
| 02:44.06 | ZorbaTHut | if you're below level 40, no |
| 02:44.23 | ZorbaTHut | otherwise, yes, go get your epic land mount :P |
| 02:48.24 | Dagmar | They're what, 30g now? |
| 02:49.12 | ZorbaTHut | 10g :D |
| 02:49.48 | ZorbaTHut | skill costs 50, discounted down to 40, however |
| 02:53.04 | Jerub | i only have my epic land mount. |
| 02:53.23 | Jerub | <- druid |
| 02:53.57 | Jerub | i'm nearly able to get the black war mammoth from stone keeper shards. |
| 02:54.12 | Jerub | i'm considering that for mount #2, but i was thinking about the [For The Horde] achievement for mount #2. |
| 02:56.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Dolby (n=Dolby@MMOI/Administrator/Dolby) |
| 02:56.29 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Dolby] by ChanServ |
| 02:57.20 | *** join/#wowuidev ccox (n=ccox@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/CCox) |
| 02:59.10 | Jerub | woo, worked out that wine wasn't crashing on my laptop |
| 02:59.38 | Jerub | it was displaying wow to my VGA external monitor, disabling my internal monitor, and then getting stuck on the 'license agreement' page. |
| 03:01.36 | ZorbaTHut | jerub, eh, get more if you want to. they're not hugely important. |
| 03:04.07 | Jerub | :D |
| 03:06.05 | ZorbaTHut | I collect 'em, but there's no real objective reason to do it besides "it's fun" |
| 03:06.26 | ScytheBlade1 | http://www.case-mate.com/iPhone-3G-Cases/Case-Mate-iPhone-3G--3GS-recession-case.asp |
| 03:06.49 | Amarande | Oh, GOOD GRIEF. |
| 03:07.03 | Amarande | Someone goes LFM for H UP, so I PST like just about ten seconds later and never hear back. guess the party was full. |
| 03:07.16 | Amarande | Then someone goes LF tank and dps for H TOC, so I PST *SIX* seconds later and STILL never hear back |
| 03:07.42 | Amarande | do I need like a fucking addon to be able to click-PST people whenever LFM is detected in chat to be able to manage to get into a goddamn heroic group now?! |
| 03:07.46 | ZorbaTHut | amarande, the last I did "lf1dps" in trade, on my terrible low-pop server, I had fifteen replies in about ten seconds |
| 03:08.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Sesshu| (n=Sesshu@85.233.17.242) |
| 03:08.06 | ZorbaTHut | I just invited the dude whose name I recognized and said "alright it's full, not responding to all of you" |
| 03:08.11 | Amarande | this is getting ridiculous, I'm managing to do a heroic maybe 2-3x a week if that |
| 03:08.23 | ZorbaTHut | and I still got another ten replies after that before people noticed :( |
| 03:08.24 | Amarande | Zorba: these guys didn't even dignify me with a response |
| 03:08.55 | Amarande | c'mon, it's not like I have crap gear either, I have mostly ilvl 200 with a couple of good 187 |
| 03:09.10 | ZorbaTHut | you need to either start your own groups, get into a good guild, or make friends with some tanks and healers |
| 03:09.13 | Amarande | and by 'good' 187 I mean I'm not even sure it's a good trade off for aff to replace the hat of wintry doom with the HCOS ilvl 200 helm |
| 03:09.41 | ScytheBlade1 | You should just move to a high pop server |
| 03:09.59 | roastx | wintry doom has great hit to start you off in raidin |
| 03:10.06 | Amarande | seeing as the hat of wintry doom has hit, while the HCOS helm doesn't |
| 03:10.13 | Amarande | and also, the non-meta socket on HoWD is red |
| 03:10.17 | Amarande | the one from the HCOS helm is blue |
| 03:10.22 | Amarande | and blue sockets fucking suck for aff |
| 03:10.27 | Amarande | because, let's put it this way |
| 03:10.39 | Dagmar | You only want to stack one stat? |
| 03:10.59 | Amarande | Dagmar: the tao of socketing for aff is "always socket runed scarlet/cardinal ruby unless you need something else to activate meta or need to gem for hit" |
| 03:11.13 | Amarande | the socket bonus has to be like, really, really uber in order to justify deviating from that |
| 03:11.23 | Dagmar | You could always do some math |
| 03:11.25 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, blue sockets are pretty worthless for any DPS |
| 03:11.29 | ScytheBlade1 | Isn't there a purple gem that is spirit/spellpower, which would be great to match a needed color? |
| 03:11.36 | roastx | most bonuses suck |
| 03:11.41 | roastx | at least with ma mage |
| 03:11.44 | Amarande | Scythe: even there, it's not worth going for the socket bonus |
| 03:11.54 | Amarande | you do use a couple of spirit/spellpower gems as aff, because you need two blue gems for the best meta |
| 03:11.55 | ScytheBlade1 | I thought you were talking meta |
| 03:11.59 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: yeah but there's more to life than just DPS tho |
| 03:12.14 | Amarande | but that's the ONLY gem you should be using other than runed scarlet/cardinal ruby and any needed hit gems |
| 03:12.40 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, not that much more. if you have to gem for stam as a dps, you're doing it wrong |
| 03:12.48 | ZorbaTHut | and if you have to gem for mana regen as a warlock, you're doing it really wrong |
| 03:12.58 | Dagmar | Unless your meta gem calls for only one color of non-meta gems, you can't sanely socket everything with the same gem |
| 03:13.03 | Amarande | and actually, since I'm a JC I probably should replace the spirit/spellpower gems with 2 runed dragon's eye anyway |
| 03:13.30 | ZorbaTHut | I don't think dragon's eyes count as all three colors anymore |
| 03:13.36 | Amarande | yeah, they may not |
| 03:13.42 | Amarande | I noticed runed dragon's eye was showing under red now :| |
| 03:13.45 | ZorbaTHut | they're basically just good gems of whatever color they normally would be |
| 03:13.50 | Amarande | stupid JC nerf |
| 03:13.54 | Dagmar | I agree there |
| 03:14.01 | Dagmar | That would break the point of having them |
| 03:14.20 | Amarande | I guess they decided JCs had it too easy to qualify for metas |
| 03:14.27 | Amarande | between the dragon's eyes AND two double-socketed trinkets |
| 03:14.36 | Dagmar | It should still qualify for socket bonuses at least |
| 03:14.44 | Amarande | given that you're probably going to use two of the BoP JC trinkets until you get naxx gear at least |
| 03:15.08 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, that's a large and somewhat difficult-to-calculate buff |
| 03:15.16 | ZorbaTHut | all the profession bonuses are very simple to itemize |
| 03:15.24 | Amarande | anyway, a lot of builds are indeed very uniform about socketing |
| 03:15.39 | Amarande | and generally speaking, it's only worth it to deviate from the recommended gem in three circumstances |
| 03:16.09 | Dagmar | If I followed the "generally accepted" things I'd not be doing the DPS I do |
| 03:16.18 | Dagmar | ...because I would have obsessively gemmed for hit until the cap. |
| 03:16.36 | Amarande | 1) if the best-in-socket gem is not the right color to activate your meta, in which case you do JUST enough deviations to activate your meta, and should usually still use a secondary-color gem that also carries some of the type of bonus that the best-in-socket gem gives |
| 03:16.56 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, while that's generally accepted, it's actually often not optimal |
| 03:17.02 | Amarande | e.g., for caster DPS who should use runed scarlet/cardinal ruby, and you need a yellow or blue gem for meta, you always use a spellpower/XYZ orange or purple gem |
| 03:17.04 | Dagmar | I know |
| 03:17.04 | ZorbaTHut | however, gemming for stam is never optimal for dps |
| 03:17.15 | Dagmar | That depends on whether or not you have to keep a pet alive |
| 03:17.18 | Amarande | 2) if you are not hit capped, and can reach it with gems |
| 03:17.20 | ZorbaTHut | same goes for spirit/mp5 |
| 03:17.28 | Amarande | 3) if the socket bonus is REALLY OUT THERE AWESOME, which is usually NOT the case |
| 03:17.37 | ZorbaTHut | the amount of stam you'd need to stack to make a significant difference is astronomical |
| 03:17.40 | ZorbaTHut | it would not be worthwhile |
| 03:17.57 | Dagmar | The amount of damage you get from it otherwise is also rather marginal |
| 03:18.07 | Amarande | according to EJ, it's almost never worth it on some builds (aff, for instance) to deviate from runed rubies just to get a socket bonus |
| 03:18.41 | Amarande | except that of course you might as well put your two twilight opals in blue sockets, and any needed hit gems in yellow |
| 03:18.41 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, sure, but it's less marginal. I mean things like "you have to gem and enchant and gear for stam to make any kind of significant difference" |
| 03:18.51 | ZorbaTHut | merely swapping all your gems isn't enough |
| 03:19.13 | Amarande | anyway, let's put it this way, though |
| 03:19.23 | Amarande | by far, red sockets are the most lovely sockets to have on your gear as aff. |
| 03:19.32 | Dagmar | So why the "significant" qualification on one and not the other? |
| 03:19.44 | Amarande | HoWD has meta+red, the H:COS hat may be ilvl 200 and a bit more SP, but it has no hit that I remember and also has meta+blue which is much less good |
| 03:20.10 | Dagmar | You could leave a socket empty and it wouldn't make a "significant" difference |
| 03:20.27 | Amarande | Dagmar: except that anyone who even looks at your gear at all will rightly reject you from a group :) |
| 03:20.33 | Dagmar | No, they won't. |
| 03:20.43 | Amarande | if you're too cheap to even slot in a green grade gem from AH ... |
| 03:20.56 | Dagmar | If they want someone to stand there and click the button over and over, they are not the people I want to run with. |
| 03:21.02 | ScytheBlade1 | Amarande, something tells me your server just sucks |
| 03:21.04 | Amarande | well |
| 03:21.05 | ScytheBlade1 | hard |
| 03:21.08 | Amarande | let's put it this way though ... |
| 03:21.19 | Amarande | not filling a socket, with how cheap green grade northrend gems are |
| 03:21.25 | Amarande | unless you're totally broke, is just dumb |
| 03:21.39 | Dagmar | That's not the point. |
| 03:22.18 | Amarande | Scythe: actually Turalyon has pretty good progression |
| 03:22.24 | Amarande | we just suffer from a distinct dearth of PUGs |
| 03:22.49 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm pretty sure "progression" is moot |
| 03:23.03 | Amarande | according to wowjutsu, for instance |
| 03:23.21 | Amarande | Turalyon has the 8th best guild in the US, which is also the 2nd best horde guild in the US |
| 03:23.23 | ScytheBlade1 | .......... |
| 03:23.25 | ScytheBlade1 | wowjutsu is TERRIBLE |
| 03:24.30 | tekkub | that and isn't it still showing BC stuff? |
| 03:24.33 | Amarande | oh, dear god, our server sucks too |
| 03:24.37 | Amarande | it's ranked #129 |
| 03:24.38 | Amarande | hell |
| 03:24.43 | Amarande | we're just one rank about fucking MOON GUARD |
| 03:24.52 | ZorbaTHut | amarande, better than mine |
| 03:25.00 | tekkub | oh maybe not, what was the one I hit the other day that had BC raids listed... |
| 03:25.02 | Amarande | yes, the Moon Guard that is always mentioned on the blizzard boards as being the place teenagers go to have cybersex :P |
| 03:25.13 | ZorbaTHut | mine's like #215 or so |
| 03:25.22 | ZorbaTHut | and I'm on the less-progressed half of it :( |
| 03:25.23 | Amarande | damn, maybe Turalyon does suck |
| 03:25.34 | Amarande | we only seem to look good because Fusion is so damn hardcore |
| 03:26.06 | tekkub | my guild isn't even above <WALMART SECURITY> |
| 03:26.08 | tekkub | lawl |
| 03:26.09 | Amarande | if it wasn't for the fact that I have too many really good friends who play on Turalyon |
| 03:26.15 | Amarande | maybe I *would* transfer |
| 03:26.20 | tekkub | and the tardmo raid leader says we're in the top 10 |
| 03:26.21 | Amarande | well, that and I already transferred during BC |
| 03:26.27 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, basically what I'm saying is that the amount of stam you'd need to stack to make any kind of a real difference to your survivability or your pet's survivability would be enough to harm your DPS appreciably |
| 03:26.28 | Amarande | and ended up coming back to Turalyon for WOTLK |
| 03:26.37 | Amarande | I've already spent like fifty bucks on transfers for this character during her career :P |
| 03:26.39 | ZorbaTHut | whereas the normal amount of stam on your gear is enough to not die unless you're doing something really, really wrong |
| 03:26.50 | ZorbaTHut | and if you are doing something really, really wrong, the best solution is to *stop doing that* |
| 03:27.03 | Amarande | Dagmar, do you stand in fire? :) |
| 03:27.04 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: Obviously. |
| 03:27.10 | Dagmar | Amarande: Do you? |
| 03:27.11 | ZorbaTHut | tekkub, my guild's #1 on our faction! |
| 03:27.16 | Amarande | gods, no |
| 03:27.21 | ZorbaTHut | Why, two weeks ago we even downed yogg25+4! |
| 03:27.22 | Amarande | unless I get a lagspike, anyway |
| 03:27.24 | Jerub | wher'es this guild ranking thing? |
| 03:27.24 | ZorbaTHut | Faction first, baby |
| 03:27.30 | tekkub | <Not in the FACE> is #5 for faction |
| 03:27.34 | tekkub | I want to join them |
| 03:27.53 | ZorbaTHut | why we've even killed anub'arak! |
| 03:28.03 | ZorbaTHut | on normal mode, of course, 'cause Northrend Beasts Heroic wipes the floor with us |
| 03:28.05 | Dagmar | ...and the thing I'm saying is that keeping a socket bonus and accepting the fact that OH MY GOD my pet will have a few more hit points isn't going to affect my DPS output by a significant amount either |
| 03:28.24 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, sure, but neither will the hit points, so why gimp yourself? :P |
| 03:28.42 | Amarande | I've started to lose track of my anub's and arak's |
| 03:28.43 | Dagmar | Because I want the pet to have an increased chance at surviving |
| 03:28.48 | Jerub | So i did 3 bosses in ulduar (FL, KT, Koro) last night, and discovered I had the highest DPS. |
| 03:28.51 | Amarande | all those damned nerubian bosses seem to have almost the same name :P |
| 03:28.59 | Dagmar | ...because if he DIES, I lose a good 40-50% of my DPS for a _while_ |
| 03:29.03 | Amarande | stupid bugs. l2name your leaders better. :P |
| 03:29.10 | ZorbaTHut | amarande, well, two of them are the same creature ;) |
| 03:29.20 | ZorbaTHut | anub'arak shows up in a heroic, and also as the end boss of the newest raid |
| 03:29.26 | ZorbaTHut | anub'rekhan is the dude in Naxx |
| 03:29.27 | Dagmar | It doesn't bother me in the least that I'm trading a 1% DPS increase for an equivalent amount of survivability |
| 03:29.39 | Dagmar | Pfft. Way less than 1% actually |
| 03:29.46 | Amarande | I'd start doing some bosses and looking at my DPS |
| 03:29.53 | Amarande | except I'm having a rough time tonight even GETTING INTO A GROUP |
| 03:30.09 | Amarande | seems like thursday is when all the disgruntled can't get a group dps come out to play :| |
| 03:30.12 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, *shrug* all I see is that you're trading off an extremely small bonus for an even tinier amount of survivability, which does not seem like a good tradeoff to me. |
| 03:30.37 | Dagmar | I don't think it's a smaller amount |
| 03:30.48 | Jerub | I was doing HVH with some geared guys all from the same guild lsat night. |
| 03:31.03 | Jerub | I stopped healing on the trash mobs and excercised my MELEE TREE! macro |
| 03:31.06 | Amarande | how geared is 'geared'? |
| 03:31.23 | Jerub | Amarande: I stopped healing in HVH and it didn't matter geared. |
| 03:31.25 | ZorbaTHut | amarande, usually "at least two tiers above the raid leader" |
| 03:31.50 | Jerub | Downed-every-boss-in-30-seconds geared. |
| 03:31.56 | Amarande | hm |
| 03:32.09 | Amarande | I'm supposing getting into a regular raid group without having to switch over to having their guild tag is a pipe dream |
| 03:32.35 | ZorbaTHut | amarande, pretty much, yeah. if for nothing else, for organizational reasons |
| 03:32.41 | ZorbaTHut | I wish WoW let you join multiple guilds simultaneously :/ |
| 03:33.01 | Amarande | which means basically, joining a friends guild is basically saying "I don't really want to get more than one or two epics this expansion"? :| |
| 03:33.04 | Jerub | yeah, i wish guilds were more like chat channels. |
| 03:33.13 | ZorbaTHut | amarande, that is about the size of it, yes. |
| 03:33.15 | ScytheBlade1 | has sudden flashes of horror in relation to guild banks, addon messages, and more |
| 03:33.24 | ZorbaTHut | there's a reason my friend's guild split up when we decided we wanted to raid. |
| 03:33.40 | ZorbaTHut | scythe, it wouldn't be too bad. I mean, it'd break a bunch of current stuff, but it certainly wouldn't be tricky to rig up properly |
| 03:33.59 | Amarande | I wonder if it was Blizzard's intent that friends should be split up all over various guilds and have to use a /6 to talk between more than two folks at a time :| |
| 03:34.18 | Jerub | maybe this new battlenet integration will resolve that |
| 03:34.20 | Amarande | Or if maybe they thought we would make our friends based on progression rather than, well, social matters :P |
| 03:34.27 | ZorbaTHut | amarande, I suspect it just never occured to them |
| 03:34.34 | ZorbaTHut | I know of precisely one game that allows multiple guild attendance |
| 03:34.35 | Jerub | hell, i hate having toons on more than 1 server ,because it's impossible to tell who's online where. |
| 03:34.39 | ScytheBlade1 | In theory, the new battlenet stuff will let you talk cross-faction |
| 03:34.43 | ZorbaTHut | it may very well be that the main blizzard devs have never played that game. |
| 03:34.56 | ZorbaTHut | (alright, one and a half games) |
| 03:35.01 | Amarande | Zorba: at least it's not quite as weaksauce as Guild Wars |
| 03:35.09 | Amarande | in GW, your entire account was tied to a single guild once you joined |
| 03:35.10 | ZorbaTHut | I only played GW a bit, I got bored fast |
| 03:35.13 | ZorbaTHut | ugh |
| 03:35.37 | Amarande | on the good side, that aspect of the GW social interface had the upside that you didn't have to add alts to your friends lists |
| 03:35.49 | Jerub | I'm in multiple groups in TF2 and L4D. |
| 03:35.50 | Amarande | because that was account-based, too |
| 03:35.52 | Jerub | that works fine. |
| 03:36.00 | Amarande | thing is |
| 03:36.05 | Amarande | even if I DID gquit |
| 03:36.14 | Amarande | what's the chance I'm going to find a competent raiding guild whose raid nights are Tuesday and Wednesday? |
| 03:36.17 | ZorbaTHut | jerub, that's not an MMORPG guild system, though, that's basically a social networking thing |
| 03:36.19 | Amarande | my work schedule is no more raid-friendly than it was last year |
| 03:36.30 | ZorbaTHut | amarande, hit up your realm forums or ask in /2 |
| 03:36.31 | ScytheBlade1 | start your own |
| 03:36.33 | A-KO | ours is tues/wed/thurs :P |
| 03:36.37 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: what's a MMORPG other than a really bad social network? |
| 03:36.44 | Jerub | er MMORPG-Guild |
| 03:36.53 | Amarande | Scythe: do you really think a medium pop server has enough folks still seeking the optimal guild for that to succeed now? |
| 03:36.56 | Amarande | especially, tanks and healers |
| 03:37.05 | ZorbaTHut | jerub, the big difference is that it lets you easily talk in-game |
| 03:37.09 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: it's a contact list, viral invites, repository of knowledge, event invites. |
| 03:37.19 | Amarande | I get the feeling 99.9% of tanks and healers have already been scooped up by the desirable raid guilds |
| 03:37.33 | Jerub | oh yeah, it's also limited in how you can access it, just like a social network ;) |
| 03:37.41 | Amarande | (and the 0.1% that aren't guilded are either little-played alts, or aren't in raid guilds for a reason heh) |
| 03:38.05 | Jerub | Amarande: I have no troubles pugging as DPS on dath'remar, but we're oceanic, your timezones are out of sync. |
| 03:38.10 | Amarande | like, we're talking "HEY I M UBAR KITTY SPEC I CAN HEALS OR TANKS" |
| 03:38.30 | Jerub | is TOTALLY using that for his next LFG message. |
| 03:38.45 | Amarande | heh |
| 03:38.47 | Amarande | come to think of it |
| 03:38.54 | Amarande | I wonder if there really are many kitties or moonkin around anymore |
| 03:38.56 | ZorbaTHut | there's a tree druid on my server that cannot stay in any raiding guild |
| 03:39.06 | Amarande | or ret pallies, come to think of it. |
| 03:39.06 | ZorbaTHut | and we're talking about, like, naxx raiding guilds. even they boot her. she is *that bad* |
| 03:39.18 | Amarande | I mean, kitties, moonkin, and ret pallies all have one thing in common |
| 03:39.26 | Jerub | I've been using: /2 Carbon neutral heroics are here! Offset your carbon footprint with a Tree Healer. LFG PST. |
| 03:39.29 | Amarande | they are classes that can excel awesomely at both tanking and healing and they choose to do neither |
| 03:39.51 | Amarande | to me, that seems like masochism heh |
| 03:39.52 | Corrodias2 | in BC, cats and bears were the same spec, 95% |
| 03:39.57 | Corrodias | has this changed? |
| 03:39.59 | ZorbaTHut | amarande, I've got a screenshot somewhere of a warrior, paladin, druid, and deathknight, sitting in the LFG queue waiting for a tank |
| 03:40.21 | Jerub | Corrodias: for talents, it's still 95%, for glyphs 66%, for equipment 60% |
| 03:40.33 | Amarande | I guess I can't bash ret too badly though |
| 03:40.39 | Corrodias | it's perfect then :| those people have no excuse not to tank |
| 03:40.45 | Jerub | Corrodias: I can swap between tanking and dps with two clicks. |
| 03:40.46 | Amarande | I have a very, very dear friend who is quite good at WoW and still just loves to play ret on her pally |
| 03:40.54 | Corrodias | me too ^_^ well i could when i played, i mean |
| 03:41.06 | Amarande | it always tempers my opinions about pally builds despite the fact that I'm very much a prot junkie |
| 03:41.29 | Jerub | my wife has a prot build, but doesn't know the dungeons to the point she's confident tanking them without someone nearby giving advice. |
| 03:41.31 | Amarande | and if I do start another pally, I would certainly use the secondary spec slot for holy so I could flip roles if needed to get a group off the ground |
| 03:41.40 | Amarande | Jerub: then she can go holy |
| 03:41.41 | Amarande | actually, wait |
| 03:41.50 | Jerub | yeah, she just dual specced. |
| 03:41.50 | Amarande | raid healing is perhaps even bitchier than raid tanking |
| 03:41.57 | Amarande | I mean, let's see |
| 03:42.03 | Jerub | not raid, heroic. |
| 03:42.15 | Amarande | as a tank, pretty much all you gotta do is keep your TPS up and not stand in fire |
| 03:42.21 | Jerub | when we raid with our guild it's her protadin and my bear as the two tanks. |
| 03:42.26 | Jerub | same room > vent |
| 03:42.35 | Amarande | as a healer ... especially when you get to the raid or god forbid heroic raid level |
| 03:42.51 | Amarande | apparently, unless you are a disc priest, you basically have to be so intimate with the boss that you know EXACTLY WHEN EACH MAJOR ATTACK GOES OFF |
| 03:42.59 | Amarande | even more than DBM will tell you, certainly |
| 03:43.10 | Jerub | Amarande: why's that? |
| 03:43.32 | Amarande | Jerub: apparently raid boss design is moving to the point where you need to start casting a heal so it lands immediately after the tank is hit |
| 03:43.42 | Amarande | which means often you have to predict when the attack is going to come so you know when to start casting |
| 03:43.53 | Amarande | otherwise, especially in fights with things like lots of AoE or adds, you're taking huge risks |
| 03:44.03 | Amarande | Disc priests have ubersauce PW:S, so they're less on the hook in that way |
| 03:44.04 | Jerub | Amarande: sigh. stupid blizzard. |
| 03:44.23 | Jerub | Amarande: due to the speed of light, 250ms is the fastest ping available to us australians. |
| 03:44.38 | Amarande | since as long as you cast PW:S like, within -half a minute- of the hit, you're generally ok as disc |
| 03:45.06 | Dagmar | You guys would complain that a screwdriver makes a poor awl. |
| 03:45.09 | Corrodias | i don't know, druids were mostly about rolling lifebloom, although casting little HT's or rejuv to catch up didn't hurt |
| 03:45.14 | Amarande | Jerub: so you cast GH an extra quarter second in advance of when you expect the hit to land, then |
| 03:45.30 | Amarande | Corrodias: well, lifebloom is a hot |
| 03:45.38 | Amarande | the basic thing is though |
| 03:45.51 | Amarande | with like, priest and holy pally healers where the main heals have a cast time of like 2-3 seconds or so |
| 03:45.53 | Corrodias | " <Amarande> apparently, unless you are a disc priest," |
| 03:45.59 | Corrodias | so i was just giving an example thar |
| 03:46.16 | Amarande | boss fights increasingly don't let you reactively heal, if you do that the tank will be dead in the 2-3 seconds it takes to cast |
| 03:46.20 | Corrodias | they couldn't really play reactively except with that spell that removes one HoT for an instant heal |
| 03:46.22 | Amarande | and when the tank dies, so do you ;) |
| 03:46.43 | Jerub | aiui, HT isn't a spell to cast at 80. lb+rj+rg means nourish is faster better stronger. |
| 03:46.53 | Amarande | in fact, if the tank dies when you really should have known better, 'so do you' might mean more than your character |
| 03:47.40 | Amarande | that sort of healing fail in some cities probably sees you out in the dark alleys at night with one of your plate based raidmates digging a shiv up against your back saying "pay my repair bill nao or else" LOL |
| 03:48.21 | Amarande | Someday, when I have a level 80 plate wearer |
| 03:48.31 | Amarande | I need to deliberately red out my gear, just so I can find out just how horrible those repair bills are |
| 03:48.57 | Amarande | it probably won't phase me much, since while I'm always having trouble getting groups to get epix, gold on the other hand grows on trees for me pretty much |
| 03:49.13 | Amarande | but maybe it would get me into a frame of mind as to why tanks hate it when the healer fails, and also why tanks hate to do pugs :) |
| 03:49.15 | kd3 | lol; nsfw text: http://www.maxim.com/humor/stupid-fun/84196/how-to-tell-which-star-wars-youre-watching.html |
| 03:49.45 | Jerub | Amarande: dammit man, just transfer to dath'remar, i'll get you in my social guild ;) |
| 03:49.47 | Amarande | but I have heard that back in the day at least |
| 03:49.58 | Amarande | redout on a plate wearer sometimes almost made said plate wearer quit wow |
| 03:50.08 | Amarande | Jerub: alliance or horde? |
| 03:50.10 | Jerub | horde |
| 03:50.25 | Amarande | and how often do you guys get to do instances? |
| 03:50.46 | Amarande | (also, what's the name of the tree one should never invite to do heals? :D) |
| 03:50.49 | Jerub | we run heroics nearly every night our timezone, which is GMT+10 |
| 03:51.16 | Amarande | so that's like what, late morning, early afternoon in the eastern US? |
| 03:51.25 | Jerub | something like that. |
| 03:51.49 | Amarande | sometimes I do wonder if oceanic servers would work better for me |
| 03:52.04 | Jerub | sometimes i wonder if american servers will work better for me ;) |
| 03:52.09 | Amarande | I suspect I'm caught in the scissors of that people don't raid when I'm home because they're either sleeping, working, or dating |
| 03:52.20 | Amarande | while they raid when I'm at work :| |
| 03:52.33 | Jerub | what hours do you work? |
| 03:52.51 | *** join/#wowuidev robotusch (n=robotusc@50A2D902.flatrate.dk) |
| 03:52.53 | Amarande | Jerub: aside from 12n-6pm on Tuesday and 9am-4pm on Wednesday, generally evenings |
| 03:53.02 | Amarande | my day off is fairly random, but it's usually monday or thursday |
| 03:53.12 | Amarande | and I am NEVER available weekend evenings, in particular |
| 03:53.29 | Jerub | Amarande: roll a toon on an oceanic server :) |
| 03:53.34 | Amarande | Sundays I basically always work till 9pm, and Saturdays, I work till 9:30-11 or so and then don't get a ride home till about 11:30 and don't get home till after midnight |
| 03:53.43 | Amarande | Jerub: is there even still time to get to 80 and get geared? |
| 03:53.54 | Jerub | Amarande: it took me 4 months to get to 80 |
| 03:53.59 | Jerub | and i work fulltime. |
| 03:54.07 | Amarande | I could always dust off my ally mage on zangarmarsh or my ally shammy on stormrage |
| 03:54.21 | Amarande | but I'm not sure I have time to both reach 80 and get some gear and then actually have time left to raid before Cat hits and makes it all obsolete |
| 03:54.28 | Amarande | and let's just say |
| 03:54.35 | Amarande | when I got this bad feeling about not having enough time in the BC days |
| 03:54.36 | Jerub | when will cat hit? |
| 03:54.40 | Amarande | it turned out to be quite on the money :| |
| 03:54.59 | Amarande | Jerub: not sure at all |
| 03:55.11 | Amarande | if I was going to venture a guess, probably spring |
| 03:55.37 | Amarande | probably not earlier, because then Icecrown will become the next Naxx/Sunwell disaster |
| 03:55.51 | Jerub | Amarande: which month is spring? |
| 03:55.57 | Amarande | Jerub: march-may or so |
| 03:56.04 | Jerub | okay, can someone tell me what the sunwell disaster was? |
| 03:56.10 | Amarande | Jerub: pretty similar to old Naxx |
| 03:56.18 | kd3 | 2.4 was out for like 6 months before something else came out |
| 03:56.30 | Amarande | there just wasn't really enough time between the content being released and the next expansion coming out and wiping away the current raids |
| 03:56.49 | kd3 | er, gah. my timeline's botched. ignore me |
| 03:56.52 | Amarande | so a lot of folks just never got to see the content |
| 03:56.57 | Amarande | with old naxx, there just wasn't enough time, period |
| 03:57.07 | Amarande | with sunwell I think there was more time but a lot of guilds couldn't take advantage of it |
| 03:57.19 | Amarande | because Sunwell needed to cater to guilds who had had BT on farm for months, since BT was released way too soon |
| 03:57.31 | Amarande | which meant if you *weren't* in or really close to T6 yet |
| 03:57.34 | Amarande | you probably didn't get to go |
| 03:57.44 | Jerub | ah, so there was a raid that basically no one did? |
| 03:57.53 | Amarande | because "cater to guilds who had had BT on farm for months" translated quite bluntly to "MASSIVE NASTY GEAR CHECK YOU WILL NEVER SURVIVE" |
| 03:58.03 | Amarande | in this case, this was courtesy of Brutallus |
| 03:58.04 | Amarande | pretty much. |
| 03:58.16 | Amarande | I think some servers just never even got to sunwell at all, if I remember the wowjutsus from BC |
| 03:58.19 | Jerub | and it's inaccessable now? |
| 03:58.25 | Amarande | it's accessible, it's just obsolete |
| 03:58.28 | Jerub | oh, right |
| 03:58.43 | Amarande | just like Naxx60 was still available during BC, just no one went there |
| 03:59.48 | Jerub | i see. |
| 03:59.51 | Amarande | but let's put it this way. |
| 03:59.54 | Jerub | wait, 60? there was a 60man raid? |
| 04:00.00 | Amarande | Naxx60, as in "naxx for level 60" |
| 04:00.03 | Jerub | oh |
| 04:00.08 | Amarande | Brutallus, in particular, was the one most complained about |
| 04:00.48 | *** topic/#wowuidev by Cairenn -> http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ | 3.2.x ToC: 30200 | #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting | Happy Birthday Seerah!! |
| 04:01.09 | Shirik | tackles Seerah |
| 04:01.31 | Amarande | Brutallus had a six minute enrage and, pre-3.0, needed 28k raid DPS to take down. |
| 04:02.09 | Zhinjio | Seerah: happy birthday! |
| 04:02.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (n=Vilkku@dsl-tkubrasgw1-ffc7c100-46.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 04:02.11 | Amarande | From a well-rated post on wowhead: "The "gear check" of Sunwell, most people who have done this fight will agree that Brutallus is tuned for a raid consisting of 2 tanks, 8 healers, 15 dps, no warglaives, full BT/Hyjal gear (needing at most 1 or 2 things from either instance), and popping all the proper consumables for each player." |
| 04:02.28 | Amarande | (Again, this being pre-3.0, as they nerfed everything to "stupid easy" when that hit) |
| 04:02.35 | *** join/#wowuidev robotusch (n=robotusc@50A2D902.flatrate.dk) |
| 04:02.47 | Jerub | is it possible to do oldnaxx still? |
| 04:02.47 | Seerah | :D |
| 04:02.50 | Amarande | Jerub: Nope. |
| 04:03.08 | Amarande | Old Naxx is gone, although last time I remember checking the quests in Eastern Plaguelands apparently you could still get attuned for it, go figure LOL |
| 04:03.46 | Amarande | or at some point you could anyway |
| 04:03.59 | Amarande | they may have gotten around to taking it out when WotLK launched and the DK starting area went live necessitating the retooling of EPL |
| 04:04.11 | Amarande | but I forget now if EPL was changed when 3.0.2 came out, or when WotLK actually launched |
| 04:04.57 | Zhinjio | Seerah: doing anything special? |
| 04:05.17 | Amarande | Anyway, can you imgine a guild trying to get full BT/Hyjal gear within the short time between 2.4 and 3.0.2? |
| 04:05.27 | Seerah | Zhinjio: hubby and I might go out. Friends are coming over on Sunday for a joint birthday dinner party |
| 04:05.31 | Amarande | Especially if they hadn't started T6 yet, or god forbid were still on kara/maggie/gruul? |
| 04:05.37 | Zhinjio | awesome! |
| 04:06.32 | Amarande | I've actually never understood why Blizzard focuses so specifically on keeping the content progressing for the hardcore raid guilds at the expense of often eclipsing it before the more casual even get to that point, though |
| 04:06.36 | Amarande | I mean, yeah, you want to keep customers |
| 04:06.38 | Amarande | but otoh |
| 04:06.53 | Amarande | the vast majority of your customers never see the final content of each expansion that way |
| 04:07.16 | Amarande | imagine if say, the .hack series for PS2 had worked that way |
| 04:07.27 | Amarande | "oh, now that mutation is out you can just transfer your characters from infection and don't even have to beat Skeith!" |
| 04:07.31 | Amarande | that ... would ... just ... suck. |
| 04:08.13 | Amarande | sometimes, I wonder if maybe unlocking the next set of levels should have been quest based, and require you to actually do the progression at each level cap first |
| 04:08.31 | Amarande | I seem to recall this actually having been proposed for WOTLK at one point, although it never even made it to the PTR |
| 04:14.04 | Amarande | oh good god they have snuggies for dogs now. |
| 04:15.15 | Amarande | "The Thought of Snuggies for Dogs." Causes 6775-7225 Shadow damage to all affected targets and reduces Sanity by 33%. |
| 04:16.18 | kd3 | lmao @ xkcd |
| 04:17.21 | Amarande | oh, that's right |
| 04:17.22 | Amarande | it's friday now |
| 04:17.25 | Kaelten | Seerah: happy bday :) sorry I'm tardy |
| 04:17.55 | Amarande | hahah |
| 04:18.02 | Seerah | thanks, Kael :) |
| 04:18.10 | Amarande | anyway, what is it that causes some startup guilds to make it and others to fail badly? |
| 04:18.16 | Amarande | and sometimes for the oldest guilds on a given server to fail? |
| 04:18.24 | kd3 | drama |
| 04:18.28 | WobWork | this ^ |
| 04:18.31 | Amarande | literally. when I was on Quel'dorei, I belonged to THE oldest horde guild on the server |
| 04:18.37 | Amarande | and the environment was really quite friendly and such |
| 04:19.09 | Amarande | but we kinda got stalled in kara progression wise, and over the six months or so I spent on the server I watched things collapse bit by bit until we couldn't even field an instance group |
| 04:19.33 | Amarande | sometimes I wonder if I am cursed |
| 04:19.37 | Amarande | because, well, let's put it this way |
| 04:19.44 | Amarande | for the most part, people like me, and enjoy my company |
| 04:19.51 | Amarande | BUT, just about any time I receive an admin or officer post somewhere |
| 04:19.56 | Amarande | I get to watch the group collapse |
| 04:20.15 | Amarande | and no I'm not the power-abuser type, if anything sometimes I think I don't make use of power enough when I have it |
| 04:20.20 | ScytheBlade1 | If you got stalled in kara, you're pretty terrible - the age of your guild is irrelevant |
| 04:20.31 | Amarande | example: when I got to be officer |
| 04:20.42 | Amarande | pretty much the only things I really did with officer privs was to invite people's alts |
| 04:20.53 | Amarande | and be able to have more adult conversations because we kept that to /O where we knew everyone was of age |
| 04:21.07 | WobWork | Amarande: that's why I like my guild |
| 04:21.13 | WobWork | you have to be over 25 to join |
| 04:21.17 | Amarande | I wonder if maybe we fell apart *because* we are friendly? |
| 04:21.30 | Amarande | maybe every DPS we took in brought us closer to death? |
| 04:21.31 | WobWork | it all depends on the raid leadership |
| 04:21.47 | WobWork | if the raid and class leaders actually ... -lead- |
| 04:21.51 | WobWork | raiding will go well |
| 04:21.57 | Amarande | the only really inherent mechanical defect I can think of in the guild was that we were rather heavy on DPS and lowish on healers and tanks |
| 04:22.00 | WobWork | however, it's a balancing act |
| 04:22.17 | Amarande | I've heard though that oftentimes that alone is enough to send a guild spiraling into dramaland and collapsing |
| 04:22.19 | WobWork | cause raid leading is like herding cats with ADD |
| 04:22.46 | Corrodias | several of us burned out at the same time in my raiding guild |
| 04:22.51 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR (n=brandonm@24.114.252.243) |
| 04:22.52 | Amarande | The final blow was when the MT, a married woman, decided to found a new guild because, due to past drama, her hubby didn't feel comfortable rejoining ours |
| 04:22.58 | Corrodias | some of the core group. it just IMPLODED after that. |
| 04:23.08 | Amarande | and by coincidence it happened that most of the people who went to her new guild happened to be our tank and healer players |
| 04:23.18 | Amarande | and then we were just finished because we had basically just all the DPS left and like one or two healers |
| 04:23.25 | Amarande | and no real tanks that I remember |
| 04:23.32 | Amarande | but by then we had been in decline for a long while |
| 04:23.40 | WobWork | I think the difference is |
| 04:23.50 | WobWork | are you a raiding guild |
| 04:23.52 | WobWork | or are you a guild? |
| 04:23.55 | Corrodias | mine died at the height of its progression. couple weeks after the first kill of some SC boss... boom |
| 04:24.06 | Amarande | we were a guild, with an interest in raiding |
| 04:24.14 | Amarande | but we didn't make our entire life focus be to raid |
| 04:24.14 | WobWork | if it's a raiding guild, it's subject to the vagaries of progression |
| 04:24.16 | Corrodias | it didn't "die" really, but too many people left and it was back to basics. |
| 04:24.17 | WobWork | and content release |
| 04:24.36 | WobWork | like, a whole lot of guilds disappeared before BC and before wotlk |
| 04:24.41 | Amarande | Quel'dorei was never a really progressed server |
| 04:24.42 | WobWork | cause there was nothing to do |
| 04:24.48 | Amarande | there were a couple of horde guilds in t6, but that was about it |
| 04:25.00 | WobWork | and there wasn't enough skilled players to get to top tier raiding |
| 04:25.24 | boomnuts | any one know of a addon that would let me watch a irc chat in wow? |
| 04:25.34 | WobWork | boomnuts: none possible |
| 04:25.42 | Amarande | eventually, after Underdog had totally collapsed, I packed up everything I could on Alvaerin, sold everything else, deleted all my characters but Alvaerin and transferred back to Turalyon |
| 04:25.45 | WobWork | aside from playing wow in windowed mode |
| 04:25.59 | Jerub | i play wow in windowed mode on mac |
| 04:26.01 | Amarande | and have since rejoined my friends guild that I started my WoW life in |
| 04:26.11 | WobWork | Amarande: and are happier for it? |
| 04:26.16 | Amarande | Wob: -for the most part- |
| 04:26.29 | Amarande | except for the one grating problem that was what prodded me to transfer off in the first place |
| 04:26.43 | boomnuts | not even if the irc chat was riten to a .txt in the wow der and then a add on displaed t ingame? |
| 04:26.44 | Amarande | most of our players are really casual, and we don't have many 80s |
| 04:26.46 | WobWork | personality clash? |
| 04:26.59 | WobWork | boomnuts: you'd only be able to update every time you 'reload ui' =P |
| 04:27.00 | Amarande | Wob: hell no, we get along awesomely in Clad in the Light |
| 04:27.09 | Amarande | especially since almost all of us belong to another online community together as well |
| 04:27.10 | WobWork | so it'd be less than optimal =P |
| 04:27.22 | WobWork | Amarande: not enough running around nekkid? |
| 04:27.26 | Amarande | the main issue is we don't really have enough players to raid or instance within the guild |
| 04:27.48 | Amarande | which leaves me feeling rather frustrated because I have to PUG everything and getting PUGs as DPS is becoming exasperating |
| 04:27.56 | WobWork | that's always a problem =\ |
| 04:28.09 | WobWork | that's why I rolled tank and healer =) |
| 04:28.16 | Amarande | I try that |
| 04:28.29 | Amarande | but every time I play my druid or priest I just feel totally like I'm not having fun like I do with the lock |
| 04:28.37 | Amarande | so they're still level 23 and 63 |
| 04:28.41 | WobWork | shaman healing is easy |
| 04:28.54 | WobWork | and you can offspec some awesome dps |
| 04:28.58 | Amarande | my Alliance shaman on Stormrage is in the low 40s |
| 04:29.13 | WobWork | roll a new shaman, gear it up with heirloom gear |
| 04:29.23 | WobWork | (or transfer and load up) |
| 04:29.27 | Jerub | that's a point, i've forgotten about heirloom gear |
| 04:29.36 | Jerub | should totally do that for his alt he's rolling tonight |
| 04:29.44 | WobWork | it's awesome |
| 04:29.51 | WobWork | even if it's not precisely the right geartype |
| 04:30.01 | WobWork | ie like mail on a pally |
| 04:30.09 | Jerub | i've got 290 stone keeper's shards, that'll get me some heirloom stuff won't it/ |
| 04:30.11 | WobWork | or cloth on a caster |
| 04:30.21 | WobWork | Jerub: yeah, there's pvp gear |
| 04:30.27 | WobWork | but I'd save up 10 more =) |
| 04:30.30 | WobWork | and get the mammoth =) |
| 04:30.36 | Jerub | that's what i was saving for. |
| 04:30.51 | WobWork | badges are easier to farm |
| 04:30.56 | WobWork | independant of WG status |
| 04:31.29 | boomnuts | ok time to go play wow |
| 04:31.35 | *** part/#wowuidev boomnuts (n=eddie@75-95-157-132.anc.clearwire-dns.net) |
| 04:31.37 | WobWork | but the total 20% xp gain is definitely worth it |
| 04:31.49 | Jerub | is 20% the max? |
| 04:31.54 | WobWork | so far |
| 04:31.59 | WobWork | shoulders and chest |
| 04:32.01 | WobWork | 10% each |
| 04:32.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Ne-vyn (i=lukian@203.123.90.21) |
| 04:33.04 | WobWork | noone's here =P |
| 04:33.06 | Amarande | man, most of the guilds I really recognize on this server have really started not doing well in progression since WotLK |
| 04:33.20 | DWSR | lol, not as bad as US-Nazjatar though |
| 04:33.37 | Amarande | guilds that were in T6 in BC are still not listed as even having done malygos, let alone ulduar |
| 04:33.49 | Amarande | well, except ones like fusion |
| 04:33.54 | WobWork | that's... pretty terrible =( |
| 04:33.54 | Amarande | but fusion is just crazy hardcore :) |
| 04:34.33 | Amarande | some of the t6 BC guilds haven't even done os25 yet |
| 04:34.51 | Amarande | how does a server die, anyway? :| |
| 04:36.40 | Jerub | my guild doesn't have the players for OS25, and hasn't done the full OS10, just two of the boses. |
| 04:36.43 | WobWork | well, if you insert a dagger, between the third and fourth rack at a slight upward angle.... |
| 04:36.49 | Jerub | I think they're more just inexperienced and skittish than incapable though. |
| 04:36.58 | Amarande | Wob: have you considered playing a rogue main? :D |
| 04:37.11 | WobWork | Amarande: hehe I have one languishing at 60 =) |
| 04:37.20 | WobWork | or is it 70? |
| 04:37.30 | WobWork | I did hyjal with him... |
| 04:37.37 | WobWork | probably 70 =P |
| 04:48.19 | Seerah | night guys :) |
| 04:48.55 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan@c-76-107-191-65.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 04:57.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Cairenn (n=Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 04:57.07 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 05:00.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Proditor (i=proditor@c80-217-111-204.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 05:01.23 | WobWork | ooo |
| 05:01.24 | WobWork | http://www.ethiopianreview.com/scitech/9516 |
| 05:01.54 | Amarande | sighs |
| 05:02.08 | Corrodias | "The iPhone developer program license restricts developers from distributing scripting engines or Just-In-Time (JIT) compilers" -- lol apple customers |
| 05:02.31 | Amarande | I'm getting this sinking feeling lately that I have too many interests and there's not really anything to do about it that's not going to be depressing. :| |
| 05:03.07 | WobWork | too many intersts? |
| 05:03.37 | Amarande | yeah, like either a) there isn't time for all of them or b) they actually inherently encroach on each other's turf |
| 05:04.00 | Amarande | wanting to stick with my friends and still be able to raid is a very good example of b |
| 05:04.39 | Amarande | wanting to raid without having to basically become married to WoW is a good example of a |
| 05:04.59 | WobWork | I do weekends |
| 05:05.13 | DWSR | I raid late weeknights. |
| 05:05.16 | WobWork | it's like shared custody agreements =P |
| 05:05.17 | DWSR | In order to balance. |
| 05:05.18 | Jerub | i raid with my social guild, and i pug 25's. |
| 05:05.19 | DWSR | ROFL |
| 05:05.51 | Corrodias | i only raided like 4 or 5 nights a week |
| 05:05.57 | Jerub | but the easy 25s. OS and VOA |
| 05:06.07 | DWSR | Corrodias: only 4 or 5 nights? |
| 05:06.19 | Corrodias | casual raiding guild, mate |
| 05:06.32 | *** join/#wowuidev dustice (n=dustin@rrcs-71-42-217-66.sw.biz.rr.com) |
| 05:07.11 | Codayus | 4 or 5 nights a week is casual? Oo |
| 05:07.24 | Amarande | Codayus: we're talking WotLK |
| 05:07.33 | Amarande | most WotLK raids take longer to get the group together than it does to actually raid |
| 05:07.45 | Amarande | except for ... well, naxx and ulduar, pretty much |
| 05:08.06 | Amarande | most WotLK raids are shorter than heroic 5-mans |
| 05:08.08 | NightHawkTheSane | those would be the only two real raids in wotlk, yeah. |
| 05:08.10 | Corrodias | well, i'm talking about BC myself |
| 05:08.32 | Corrodias | it was casual in the sense that you didn't -have- to participate in the raiding, and you could be a substitute |
| 05:08.50 | *** join/#wowuidev dustice (n=dustin@rrcs-71-42-217-66.sw.biz.rr.com) |
| 05:08.50 | Codayus | Corrodias: Heh, fair enough. |
| 05:09.05 | Corrodias | though i was in the core of both the mid-week and weekend groups |
| 05:09.17 | Corrodias | as a tank! :D because we needed one |
| 05:09.48 | Corrodias | actually, i switched between tanking and physical dps as a druid, due to the variably optimal number of tanks of course |
| 05:10.14 | Amarande | I think that's also what trips me up with casual play |
| 05:10.29 | Amarande | the price of casual play seems to quite possibly be that you no longer really get to choose your class if you still want to instance much |
| 05:10.45 | Amarande | rather, you are often forced to choose a tank or healer class simply so you can get the groups |
| 05:10.49 | Corrodias | i say "only" because i -could- have gone more... but i think i'd have gotten sick of it. sometimes 4 was already pushing it. |
| 05:10.50 | NightHawkTheSane | Also, if your raid group is even remotely competant, you can have raid put together in ~5m or less |
| 05:10.56 | Codayus | Amarande: Absolutely untrue, unless you have a very weird definition of "casual". |
| 05:11.05 | Jerub | ooh, did OS10 with 1 drake up last night :) |
| 05:11.08 | NightHawkTheSane | Codayus: he has a weird definition of everything |
| 05:11.10 | Amarande | Codayus: I'm a warlock. |
| 05:11.17 | Codayus | Also what Nighthawk said. |
| 05:11.21 | Amarande | Tonight I found that even six seconds to type /w <name> I'll go |
| 05:11.25 | Amarande | is too long to get into a group as DPS. |
| 05:11.35 | ScytheBlade1 | casual has no singular meaning, quit trying to use it in such a manner |
| 05:11.40 | NightHawkTheSane | ^^ |
| 05:11.58 | Amarande | unless "I'll go" is the noobish way of saying things and doesn't get you in |
| 05:12.06 | Codayus | Amarande: Your problem, I think. :-) |
| 05:12.07 | Amarande | and instead you should be saying "aff XXXX dps recount" etc. instead |
| 05:12.42 | Corrodias | sounds like nothing - nothing - compared to my days pre-BC on eldre'thalas |
| 05:12.52 | Codayus | Also, casual != pug, among other things. |
| 05:12.59 | Jerub | i found out the other night that responding to 'are you dps or heals' with, "I'm whatever you want me to do be, baby" doesn't get you an invite. |
| 05:13.10 | Corrodias | i was a healer and could NEVER get a group - in guild or pug - for strat, scholo, or lbrs |
| 05:13.24 | Corrodias | shit was DEAD. |
| 05:13.26 | NightHawkTheSane | Jerub: see, now i would totally invite someone who replied that way ;) |
| 05:13.26 | Amarande | Codayus: yeah, when I think casual I tend to think how I am ... i.e. being in a social friends type guild and thus generally pugging everything I do |
| 05:14.04 | Amarande | the moment you move up to choosing your guild based on its instance progression habits rather than for the company, you kinda move up from casual into the more 'professional' wowing |
| 05:14.05 | NightHawkTheSane | thats a perfectly valid definition, but not the only one, by a long shot |
| 05:14.34 | NightHawkTheSane | and THAT is 100% false. |
| 05:15.24 | Amarande | Night: ok, so it's better to be in a guild where people primarily care about the fact that you're available most evenings and have XXXX output on recount, than to be in a guild because the folks you're in it with are your buddies? :| |
| 05:15.58 | NightHawkTheSane | the former is a hyperbolic and untrue generalization of "progression" guilds, and not mutually exclusive with the latter. |
| 05:15.58 | Corrodias | mine was both, it was weird. it started out that it wasn't really a "raiding" guild. they hadn't started raiding when i joined, it was just a friendly thing. |
| 05:16.03 | Amarande | although |
| 05:16.04 | Amarande | from what I have heard |
| 05:16.11 | Amarande | top raiding guilds can be surprisingly close-knit friendly environments |
| 05:16.23 | Amarande | Fusion, for instance, is apparently one of those and is really aggressive about weeding out drama |
| 05:16.33 | Corrodias | -top- ones? i don't know. they probably can be. if they're, as you say, careful about drama. |
| 05:16.39 | NightHawkTheSane | I've been in several progression guilds where they didn't give a shit about your output, as long as you weren't terrible, and weren't a flake. |
| 05:17.03 | Amarande | however, to have a hope of getting into fusion in a given expansion pack, you probably need two requirements I don't have, heh |
| 05:17.20 | NightHawkTheSane | not sucking being one of them? ;) |
| 05:17.28 | Amarande | Night: that one I have. :) |
| 05:17.30 | Amarande | I'm thinking more |
| 05:17.36 | NightHawkTheSane | somehow i doubt it |
| 05:17.57 | Corrodias | you know what was stressful about raiding? i never felt like i was putting in enough effort. |
| 05:17.57 | Amarande | 1) needing to actually have significant gear progression and actual raid experience in order to compete with the other people coveting the slot you're applying for |
| 05:18.10 | Amarande | and 2) actually being able to attend more than two or three of the guild's five raid nights a week |
| 05:18.32 | NightHawkTheSane | Corrodias: that's usually a good sign that you ARE. but yeah, i know what you mean, i always feel that way :\ |
| 05:18.46 | Amarande | I definitely don't have 2), and being that I have trouble finding groups in the first place I never get a good chance at 1) either |
| 05:19.27 | Amarande | as for not sucking as dps, let's just say that lately in heroics I seem to be doing about as much DPS as I can practically afford to do in the groups concerned |
| 05:19.34 | Corrodias | i hated crafting, i didn't really have much for +resist gear, i couldn't stand pvp so i never used pvp gear when it was better |
| 05:19.41 | Amarande | as it is, I'm already in danger of pulling aggro off the tank with the DPS I'm already doing |
| 05:20.12 | Dagmar | That's good. |
| 05:20.25 | Amarande | I actually did pull aggro on Keleseth, because that encounter was giving our tank issues with maintaining enough TPS |
| 05:20.29 | Dagmar | The closer you can ride 110% the better |
| 05:20.42 | Dagmar | You know TPS is gone, right? |
| 05:20.49 | NightHawkTheSane | pulling agro off the tank, or not, is not a measure of skill, really. |
| 05:21.08 | Amarande | Night: well, in order to get to the point where you're in danger of pulling aggro off the tank |
| 05:21.11 | Amarande | one of two things has to be the case |
| 05:21.12 | Corrodias | what is it a measure of? |
| 05:21.18 | Amarande | either your tank has to suck, or you're actually doing pretty damned good DPS |
| 05:21.44 | NightHawkTheSane | Corrodias: strictly the ability to manage agro, or lack thereof. It's a portion of skill, but not the only part. |
| 05:21.48 | Dagmar | WHat? Are you saying it's just dumb luck whether you pull aggro or not? |
| 05:21.49 | Amarande | or in the case of aff, at least "reasonably good DPS" since aff locks currently are known to have issues with high threat:dps ratios |
| 05:22.08 | Dagmar | Amarande: There's no more TPS, man. |
| 05:22.28 | Dagmar | 'locks still get into trouble with an ugly run of crits tho |
| 05:22.30 | Gnarfoz | why would there be no more TPS? |
| 05:22.31 | NightHawkTheSane | You can't just say "I can ride the 130% threshold and not pull agro", and assume that makes you a good dpser. |
| 05:22.45 | Dagmar | Gnarfoz: Because afaik they stopped counting that separately and now it's just damage done |
| 05:22.52 | DWSR | Amarande: Not aff locks, all locks |
| 05:22.53 | Gnarfoz | afaik = you're wrong |
| 05:23.02 | Amarande | also, pulling aggro off the tank in pug heroics is unfortunately a difficult thing to avoid |
| 05:23.05 | Gnarfoz | of course there's threat numbers for everyone |
| 05:23.11 | Gnarfoz | and calculating TPS is obviously easy |
| 05:23.12 | Amarande | especially when it's the first boss of the instance and you haven't played with the current tank before |
| 05:23.26 | Gnarfoz | enough classes have threat modifiers of all kinds |
| 05:23.34 | Amarande | especially when you're an affliction lock and therefore you can't really take back your dots |
| 05:23.38 | Corrodias | it's most of being a good DPSer |
| 05:23.40 | Gnarfoz | and healing isn't "damage done" anyway =) |
| 05:23.50 | Dagmar | Healing is just 1:10 |
| 05:23.52 | Gnarfoz | no. |
| 05:23.57 | Amarande | you can abort drain soul, you can stop renewing dots (which makes you a bad DPSer, though), or you can stop casting shadow bolt |
| 05:24.00 | Corrodias | doing damage without pulling aggro? yeah, that's a really big portion of what DPS is supposed to do. |
| 05:24.06 | Gnarfoz | healing is 1:4 for paladins, 1:2 for everyone else |
| 05:24.07 | Amarande | but you can't do anything about the accumulation of threat from the dots that are on |
| 05:24.22 | Gnarfoz | and AoE is different again, its 1:amount of mobs |
| 05:24.23 | Gnarfoz | :O |
| 05:24.25 | Dagmar | Exactly why it takes careful planning |
| 05:24.42 | Gnarfoz | !api threatsituation |
| 05:24.42 | lua_bot | Found 2 possible results for 'threatsituation': UnitDetailedThreatSituation, UnitThreatSituation |
| 05:24.44 | Amarande | Dagmar: unfortunately, planning that isn't viable for most PUG heroics |
| 05:24.50 | Gnarfoz | !api UnitDetailedThreatSituation |
| 05:24.50 | lua_bot | UnitDetailedThreatSituation: Returns detailed information about the threat status of one unit against another (http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/UnitDetailedThreatSituation) |
| 05:24.59 | Amarande | generally speaking, when you PUG, you get a different tank each time |
| 05:25.13 | Amarande | a tank whose threat generation capabilities you don't really know anything near precisely |
| 05:25.21 | Dagmar | Yeah, that's why I give 'em three sunders to get ahead, or whatever looks like a reasonable approximation |
| 05:25.38 | Amarande | which makes it real damn hard for an affliction warlock (all locks really, but aff have it the worst apparently) to keep aggro in check |
| 05:25.51 | Arrowmaster | i have either shamed my friends or myself im not sure which, my friend is borrowing my 360 and i offered to lend him my GH drumkit so i took it over along with my other guitar controller and another friend showed up and it was one of guitar on easy one on drums on easy and me on guitar on expert but neither of them could do drums on easy reliably so i had to take the drums while they both did guitar on |
| 05:25.54 | Amarande | especially since you only get one soulshatter per boss, and that's only a 50% threat discount |
| 05:25.55 | DWSR | Amarande: You should have seen pre 3.1 aff |
| 05:25.58 | Arrowmaster | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:26.08 | Amarande | some warlock forum folks are suggesting soulshatter ought to be 100%, with the CD and shard requirement |
| 05:26.35 | DWSR | Amarande: lock threat needs fixing. Period.\ |
| 05:26.42 | DWSR | There is *something* wrong with it. |
| 05:26.42 | Gnarfoz | Arrowmaster: you just outed yourself as a nerd, nothing shameful in that ;p |
| 05:26.51 | Amarande | DWSR: somehow convince blizzard that |
| 05:26.53 | Amarande | it's been an issue since BC |
| 05:27.02 | DWSR | So I hear/ |
| 05:27.05 | Amarande | I still remember pulling aggro off the tank in TK instances too |
| 05:27.08 | NightHawkTheSane | Arrowmaster: i'm not great at drums, but most of my friends are worse, so i end up doing it a lot |
| 05:27.19 | Gnarfoz | I can't play, let's convince blizzard it's their fault :O |
| 05:27.22 | DWSR | NHTS: It would seem that only drummers or nerds are good at drumming. |
| 05:27.27 | Dagmar | Gnarfoz++ |
| 05:27.30 | Arrowmaster | yeah ill only do easy or medium on drums nothing more |
| 05:27.40 | NightHawkTheSane | same. |
| 05:27.44 | Amarande | dude, it's drums. how can you fuck up drums, at least after the beginning when you're still getting the rhythm |
| 05:27.48 | NightHawkTheSane | and i'm not even great then, but i dont fail |
| 05:27.59 | DWSR | Amarande: You play Hot for Teacher on Expert. |
| 05:27.59 | Dagmar | Amarande: There are people who are just that white. |
| 05:28.01 | Amarande | drum, wait X amount of time based on rhythm, drum, wait, drum, wait, drum :| |
| 05:28.11 | DWSR | It's *hard* |
| 05:28.13 | Gnarfoz | I'm obviously biased though, raiding is not the same as doing pug heroics. With the latter, you never know what kind of people you'll have playing the other roles ^^ |
| 05:28.16 | DWSR | Because of double pedal taps. |
| 05:28.26 | Arrowmaster | but yeah apparently i should have gone to the local annual community picnic this year, they said there was a GH contest and the guy that won wasnt as good as me, i could have won a prize |
| 05:28.30 | Amarande | Gnarfoz: exactly, that's what I'm getting at |
| 05:28.42 | Amarande | it's really hard to regulate your threat effectively until you've spent some time together with that particular tank |
| 05:28.47 | Amarande | which is not a luxury you get to have in pug heroics |
| 05:28.55 | Dagmar | You can always watch Omen |
| 05:28.56 | NightHawkTheSane | i have some physical coordination issues with some pedal offbeat rhythms, and fast pattern switches usually get me |
| 05:29.00 | DWSR | Amarande: It's not*that* hard. |
| 05:29.01 | Amarande | certainly not on, say, keleseth, since that's the FIRST boss of the instance |
| 05:29.04 | Jerub | dude, it's pug heroics. |
| 05:29.06 | Gnarfoz | well, two pulls and looking at your threat meter should be good ;\ |
| 05:29.13 | Jerub | the boss dies in under 60 seconds, so who cares? |
| 05:29.15 | Amarande | Gnarfoz: we're talking locks here again |
| 05:29.19 | Gnarfoz | Amarande: so? |
| 05:29.27 | DWSR | Amarande: It's not that hard assuming a decent healer and a decent tank. |
| 05:29.35 | Amarande | Gnarfoz: aff locks have no aggro worries on trash most of the time because trash dies too quickly |
| 05:29.37 | DWSR | Besides, if I pull, I'm crunchy enough to take a few swings from the boss. |
| 05:29.45 | Dagmar | I run h-pugs 3-4 times a week. I just watch Omen carefully. Problem solved. |
| 05:29.55 | Amarande | hell, against trash, aff locks have DPS issues because the trash go down to burst damage dealers so quickly that dots don't get enough time to tick |
| 05:30.10 | DWSR | Amarande: Sorry, but QQ more. |
| 05:30.10 | Arrowmaster | rofl another friend linked me this while i was gone, http://www.lyricsdownload.com/darude-sandstorm-lyrics.html |
| 05:30.15 | DWSR | Or play a spec that fixes your problem. |
| 05:30.20 | Amarande | I'm starting to wonder if against trash I should just spam shadow bolt and save the elegance for the bosses |
| 05:30.22 | DWSR | Because SoC does great aoe damage. |
| 05:30.28 | Jerub | trash dps numbers are bullshit. I have my recount set to 'current fight' so that i don't have it skewed from AoE on trash |
| 05:30.28 | DWSR | Amarande: Spam SoC |
| 05:30.29 | Dagmar | Or stop worrying about dps meters on every mob |
| 05:30.35 | Amarande | DWSR: um, no |
| 05:30.35 | Gnarfoz | being an affliction lock doesn't mean you should just DoT your way to victory, even if it means doing crap dps on trash btw :p |
| 05:30.45 | Amarande | "spam soc" usually ends up in my experience being a good way to die, heh |
| 05:30.45 | NightHawkTheSane | Jerub: i have my recount set to only record boss fights. :P |
| 05:30.46 | Dagmar | If the mob dies quickly, no one should care that your numbers look low because they're long-term DoTs |
| 05:31.00 | Jerub | I had someone ask me in OS10 last night if I was swiping on the trash, because my DPS was above the guys who were AoEing ;) |
| 05:31.00 | Amarande | because pug tanks seem to have trouble remembering to actually keep up aggro against more than one trash mob |
| 05:31.01 | Amarande | which means |
| 05:31.02 | Amarande | soc goes off |
| 05:31.03 | NightHawkTheSane | or at least, only show boss fights in the history |
| 05:31.07 | Amarande | big burst of damage to some other mob than the tank target |
| 05:31.15 | Amarande | and that some other mob suddenly decides it really <3 you |
| 05:31.21 | Amarande | which is not good when you're squishy |
| 05:31.30 | DWSR | Amarande: You're obviously a scrub |
| 05:31.39 | Amarande | DWSR: I blame the tank |
| 05:31.42 | Dagmar | Amarande: Be nicer to the hunter then |
| 05:31.43 | DWSR | You would. |
| 05:31.48 | Amarande | DWSR: ok, let's put it this way |
| 05:31.57 | Amarande | if the tank is not bothering to generate sufficient threat against secondary targets |
| 05:32.03 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: thats not a bad idea in general. or at least, be quick enough about spotting the MD on your buffs ;) |
| 05:32.08 | Amarande | how CAN I use SoC without it dooming me to picking up aggro from the other trash when it goes off? |
| 05:32.18 | Dagmar | Spotting the md on my whats? |
| 05:32.29 | DWSR | Amarande: Have your cake, or eat it. |
| 05:32.34 | NightHawkTheSane | i meant for people who aren't nice to the hunters. :P |
| 05:32.38 | DWSR | Do good trash numbers and risk pulling or stfu. |
| 05:32.40 | ScytheBlade1 | Get a better tank |
| 05:32.42 | Dagmar | Amarande: Easy. Don't use it until late in the fight, or use a pally tank who'll spam consecrate |
| 05:32.47 | Dagmar | Or a DK or something |
| 05:32.50 | Gnarfoz | I'd put it another way: you seem to be too convinced that you're not at fault |
| 05:32.50 | DWSR | Or a DK tank spamming D&D |
| 05:32.51 | Arrowmaster | use RoF for 5man aoe |
| 05:33.04 | DWSR | Even better. |
| 05:33.06 | DWSR | Delete your toon |
| 05:33.08 | Amarande | Dagmar: there's not really a "late in the fight" against 5man heroic trash heh |
| 05:33.09 | Codayus | Just because you're casual doesn't MEAN you need to run with bad tanks. :-( |
| 05:33.09 | DWSR | And roll paladin |
| 05:33.12 | *** join/#wowuidev dustice (n=dustin@rrcs-71-42-217-66.sw.biz.rr.com) |
| 05:33.16 | NightHawkTheSane | Gnarfoz: yeah, you picked that up, huh? |
| 05:33.20 | DWSR | 4 |
| 05:33.22 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: OH! Hahh... No actually I was referring to hunters being able to save your ass in a pinch |
| 05:33.25 | Amarande | this is wotlk |
| 05:33.29 | Dagmar | I do NOT let the healer go down before me. |
| 05:33.34 | DWSR | Dagmar: No? |
| 05:33.41 | Amarande | this is not BC where we had evil evil places like HSH where trash pulls were large and scary and needed lots of cc |
| 05:33.43 | DWSR | You're a good hunter then, can you teach the ones in our guild? |
| 05:33.53 | Dagmar | Stop them chain misdirecting, for one thing |
| 05:34.04 | Amarande | this is wotlk where trash pulls are usually 1-3 mobs that go down like a sack of potatoes |
| 05:34.05 | Dagmar | Save that sucker for when it's needed if there's even a chance it might be |
| 05:34.07 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: yeah, i try to do that, i'm not quite that good yet. don't play my hunter often enough :\\ |
| 05:34.23 | Amarande | back in BC, yes, I would agree on "late in the fight" |
| 05:34.33 | Corrodias | Amarande: aw, they castrated the trash? :( |
| 05:34.35 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: I feel a bit silly that I didn't realize until recently that there's a very fixed amount of time you can almost absolutely buy for the tank with two keystrokes |
| 05:34.37 | Amarande | however, in wotlk, "late in the fight" you've got one or maybe two mobs left anyway :) |
| 05:35.01 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: oh? |
| 05:35.05 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: Distracting shot is normally such a suicide move I stopped thinking about it, but wait... now we've got a 5-second bubble |
| 05:35.18 | Dagmar | Distracting Shot, Deterrence, /rude |
| 05:35.34 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: ah, hey, not a bad idea. |
| 05:35.39 | Amarande | Codayus: that would depend on the server |
| 05:35.52 | Dagmar | Yeah I put myself on the third point of a triangle between the healer and tanks now |
| 05:35.55 | Amarande | however, when pugging, tank quality does seem to be a rather hit and miss affair |
| 05:36.11 | Amarande | mainly because unlike DPS, who you can probably still afford to cherry pick even pugging |
| 05:36.16 | DWSR | All I hear in this channel is "I suck at threat management. QQ" |
| 05:36.22 | Amarande | most PUGs have little choice but to take the first tank and healer that they can |
| 05:36.33 | Dagmar | DWSR: You should see the newbs on DDO complaining about class balance |
| 05:36.38 | Corrodias | also, when tanking, i never felt like i was doing enough -right then-, either. do my best to generate threat and sometimes i'd still lose aggro and i'd be like DAMNIT GET BACK HERE |
| 05:36.38 | NightHawkTheSane | DWSR: s/at.*// ;) |
| 05:36.44 | Gnarfoz | DWSR: that quote has 3 words too many. ^^ |
| 05:36.45 | Amarande | if they want to actually have time to get the instance done before everyone bails for the night because they have school/work in the morning anyway |
| 05:36.55 | Gnarfoz | Corrodias: that's what taunt is for ;> |
| 05:36.57 | Corrodias | couple that with feeling like i wasn't trying hard enough for raiding in general and WoW was a parade of inadequacy |
| 05:37.10 | NightHawkTheSane | man, i tried DDO the other day. 5 minutes in and i kind of hate the game |
| 05:37.28 | Dagmar | You're allowed to fight dirty. |
| 05:37.29 | Amarande | Night: D&D just isn't really a very good game system for a computer game, let alone an MMO |
| 05:37.30 | Dagmar | It throws people. |
| 05:37.59 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: that's debatable for 3e, sure, but the game was just designed -BADLY-, the fact that it was D&D had nothing to do with it |
| 05:38.04 | Thunder_Child | D&D is a perfectly fine game system...as long as you have never played the pen and paper version |
| 05:38.06 | Dagmar | It's quite a good system for an MMO. It just wasn't designed with PvP in mind |
| 05:38.17 | Dagmar | ...because that's what we call "shooting craps". |
| 05:38.35 | DWSR | Dagmar: Or, screwed by the RNG. |
| 05:38.43 | Amarande | and speaking of difficulty acquiring pug tanks and healers |
| 05:38.48 | Amarande | are there really THAT few tanks and healers on most servers? :| |
| 05:38.52 | DWSR | The RNG is just a set of dice and not /dev/urandom/ |
| 05:38.56 | Dagmar | I have set a few d20's on fire, yes |
| 05:39.07 | Amarande | I thought the popularity of DKs and druids since WotLK was supposed to help with that |
| 05:39.31 | Jerub | Amarande: i think your server must have an imbalance or something. |
| 05:39.32 | DWSR | Amarande: IT did. |
| 05:39.33 | Amarande | hides the precious steel d20 I bought at Dragon*Con from Dagmar |
| 05:39.36 | DWSR | Then they nerfed DW tanking |
| 05:39.55 | Amarande | DWSR: *why* did they do that? |
| 05:39.59 | DWSR | Because it was imba. |
| 05:39.59 | Amarande | now it makes people not want to tank again |
| 05:40.08 | Amarande | although, again, druids have gotten really popular |
| 05:40.11 | Jerub | i just don't tank because i hate leading groups. |
| 05:40.14 | DWSR | Not on my server. |
| 05:40.15 | Amarande | so I don't know why we at least don't have more bears |
| 05:40.25 | Amarande | hell |
| 05:40.34 | Amarande | bears are probably the tank class that one would expect to be most willing to PUG, come to think of it |
| 05:40.39 | Dagmar | Their armor isn't interesting in combat |
| 05:40.59 | DWSR | Amarande: Actually, not. |
| 05:41.03 | DWSR | Since Bear aggro's fucking broked. |
| 05:41.04 | Amarande | since, being leather, they're not risking inane repair bills like plate |
| 05:41.09 | DWSR | I haven't found a good bear tank. |
| 05:41.11 | NightHawkTheSane | bear druids are rather unpopular, from what i've seen/hear |
| 05:41.21 | Amarande | also, with the anti-crit talents, you don't need 540 defense so it's a lot easier to gear up a bear tank |
| 05:41.50 | NightHawkTheSane | DWSR: admittedly i haven't -really- tanked in a few months, but when i did, i like to think i was pretty decent. didn't have many agro issues.. |
| 05:41.55 | Amarande | speaking of which, I wonder if that will make it easier to get tanks once Cat hits |
| 05:42.07 | Amarande | since they're ditching the whole defense gear thing entirely |
| 05:42.26 | Amarande | you won't need 565 defense to tank in cat, you'll just need to take the tank talents that negate crits |
| 05:42.36 | Jerub | i'm rolling a toon tonight. what class should i do? |
| 05:42.42 | DWSR | Jerub: Paladin |
| 05:42.43 | NightHawkTheSane | shaman. |
| 05:42.45 | Amarande | Jerub: tank |
| 05:42.50 | Amarande | some kind of tank |
| 05:42.50 | Shirik | lol |
| 05:42.53 | DWSR | Paladin |
| 05:42.54 | Shirik | I made a new 3v3 team |
| 05:42.58 | Shirik | Disc priest, Disc priest, Ret pally |
| 05:42.59 | DWSR | Because Shamans can't tank. |
| 05:43.00 | NightHawkTheSane | a shaman is a kind of tank |
| 05:43.05 | Dagmar | DK |
| 05:43.06 | Shirik | Nobody's died yet |
| 05:43.10 | Jerub | i have a level 29 warrior who i HTAE |
| 05:43.15 | NightHawkTheSane | or at least, thats what i kept telling my guild. :D |
| 05:43.29 | Amarande | I have a level 14 warrior and level 23 druid |
| 05:43.39 | Amarande | the problem with the warrior now is I find I have to keep twinking her to the teeth as I level |
| 05:43.47 | Amarande | otherwise, I feel like leveling her is an insane slog |
| 05:43.54 | DWSR | NHTS: A lock wearing full furious is a tank too, or at least that's what my guild keeps telling me. |
| 05:43.55 | Dagmar | Quest more |
| 05:43.55 | Jerub | what are the tanking classes? druid/paladin/warrior? |
| 05:44.06 | DWSR | Jerub: Druid, paladin, warrior, DK |
| 05:44.08 | Dagmar | Jerub: And DK |
| 05:44.13 | Jerub | yeah, not getting a DK |
| 05:44.19 | DWSR | DK/Druid are avoidance based tanks, warrior's a block basedtank. |
| 05:44.20 | Amarande | specifically, as low level warrior, unless you by some chance have a crusader weapon, you pretty much have to eat after every mob or two |
| 05:44.22 | DWSR | And paladins a faceroll based tank. |
| 05:44.43 | NightHawkTheSane | (crusader enchanted boa weapons are hax, at low levels btw) |
| 05:44.51 | Jerub | i guess i can go paladin |
| 05:44.58 | DWSR | NHTS: They're hax. Period. |
| 05:45.05 | Amarande | crusader is just plain win |
| 05:45.08 | Jerub | can't do them anymore. |
| 05:45.11 | Jerub | afaik |
| 05:45.20 | NightHawkTheSane | DWSR: eh, less so post 60, but yeah, still awesome. |
| 05:45.36 | Amarande | post 60 you get other options, anyway |
| 05:45.38 | DWSR | NHTS: BoA gear is hax. |
| 05:45.42 | Amarande | hell even post maybe the 30s or so |
| 05:45.45 | NightHawkTheSane | not on boa gear |
| 05:45.48 | DWSR | Amarande: Not on BoA gear. |
| 05:45.53 | DWSR | BoA gear is lvl 1. |
| 05:46.05 | Amarande | where you really need crusader is at the low levels when otherwise you have to spend more time eating than fighting mobs :P |
| 05:46.06 | NightHawkTheSane | DWSR: arguably, but again, less so at later levels when not terrible stuff is available |
| 05:46.23 | NightHawkTheSane | also, thats what bandages are for |
| 05:46.59 | DWSR | lol |
| 05:47.01 | DWSR | That's what she said. |
| 05:47.07 | NightHawkTheSane | haha |
| 05:48.10 | DWSR | :) |
| 05:48.23 | DWSR | The rest of you who didn't laugh |
| 05:48.37 | DWSR | "Worthless scrub" - Varian Wyrnn |
| 05:49.49 | Jerub | bandages? people really use those? |
| 05:49.54 | Dagmar | Yes. |
| 05:49.58 | Jerub | i thought that was just to get that first aid achievement |
| 05:50.11 | Dagmar | I got that in an *instance* |
| 05:50.14 | Arrowmaster | huh? |
| 05:50.27 | Dagmar | The achievement for saving yourself from near dead with a band-aid |
| 05:50.27 | NightHawkTheSane | they're kinda handy when you can't heal |
| 05:50.35 | Amarande | ultimate triage? |
| 05:50.39 | Dagmar | Yep |
| 05:50.54 | Jerub | my stats say my 'most used' bandage is from that first aid quest |
| 05:50.55 | Amarande | I still feel like I didn't quite satisfy the spirit of that achievement, even though I did the letter :| |
| 05:51.13 | DWSR | lol |
| 05:51.17 | DWSR | Lemme put it this way |
| 05:51.28 | Amarande | I got that one by healing someone in Mara who was near death |
| 05:51.28 | Dagmar | A lot of people get it after doing the "fall _almost_ to your death" achievements |
| 05:51.47 | Amarande | I got one tick in and the achievement ... then they died from a dot |
| 05:52.21 | Amarande | yeah, yeah, I know you're gonna say "why wasn't the dot removed" |
| 05:52.24 | Amarande | dammit Jim, I'm a warlock, not a doctor |
| 05:52.49 | NightHawkTheSane | i'm sure no one here was going to say that. probably because we dont care. |
| 05:53.45 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 05:53.59 | DWSR | What he said, but hold the first part and double up on the we don't care. |
| 05:56.03 | Jerub | last night someone forgot to check for someone who can decurse before we did OS10. |
| 05:56.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Thelyna (n=burp@222-152-89-17.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 05:56.17 | Jerub | so here's me without healbot enabled being asked to raid-decurse.... |
| 05:56.18 | Dagmar | Whoops |
| 05:56.31 | Jerub | icon wasn't on my hotbars, didn't have raid frames up. |
| 05:56.32 | NightHawkTheSane | you know, i've done that before |
| 05:56.33 | DWSR | "I fail." |
| 05:56.39 | DWSR | That's all I heard. |
| 05:56.39 | NightHawkTheSane | we only noticed about halfway through the trash. |
| 05:56.43 | ScytheBlade1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:56.48 | Dagmar | I'd have demanded a couple of minutes to hack up my UI |
| 05:57.04 | Jerub | yeah, they wiped, i ran out. ;) |
| 05:57.10 | Gnarfoz | /run DeleteAddon"HealBot" InstallAddon"Grid" etc |
| 05:57.10 | Gnarfoz | :p |
| 05:57.18 | ScytheBlade1 | That too |
| 05:57.18 | NightHawkTheSane | :) |
| 05:57.20 | Jerub | :) |
| 05:57.23 | Dagmar | In theory PB4 is capable of calling special attention to curses you can get rid of |
| 05:57.27 | DWSR | /run InstallAddon("Clique") |
| 05:57.32 | DWSR | Dagmar: It works. |
| 05:57.34 | Jerub | oh, it wasn't that we didn't check if someone had decurse, it was the warlock was in the wrong spec. |
| 05:57.38 | DWSR | Not that I'm a decurse class. |
| 05:57.52 | Jerub | remembered incorrectly. |
| 05:57.58 | Dagmar | DWSR: Well, I've only got firsthand experience with it showing me buffs I can flush |
| 05:58.05 | DWSR | Jerub: WTF? |
| 05:58.09 | DWSR | Warlocks can't decurse. |
| 05:58.18 | Jerub | wait. which is the clsas with the totems? |
| 05:58.21 | DWSR | O_O |
| 05:58.26 | Dagmar | I would think warlocks would get a little snitty about being asked to _remove_ a curse |
| 05:58.27 | DWSR | shamans. gg. |
| 05:58.29 | NightHawkTheSane | shaman? |
| 05:58.34 | Jerub | shaman. |
| 05:58.43 | Dagmar | "More curses? Sure I can do that." |
| 05:58.49 | Dagmar | "No, we want you to remove the curses." |
| 05:58.52 | Dagmar | "More curses, right!" |
| 05:58.58 | DWSR | hehe |
| 05:59.25 | tekkub | http://imgur.com/k11zj.jpg |
| 05:59.30 | tekkub | badger badger badger badger badger |
| 05:59.57 | DWSR | MUSHROOM MUSHROOM |
| 06:00.24 | Dagmar | That cat is probably *pissed* |
| 06:00.53 | Dagmar | All those badgers in it's territory, and every one of them able to kick it's butt |
| 06:01.35 | DWSR | You sure it's not a stone cat? |
| 06:01.40 | DWSR | Like a garden gnome or some shit? |
| 06:01.53 | Dagmar | Might be |
| 06:02.11 | Dagmar | I'm also not sure if those badgers aren't stuffed |
| 06:02.26 | Dagmar | It would be one way to keep amateur burglars away. ;) |
| 06:02.42 | DWSR | I have a feeling that it's probably a stone cat. |
| 06:03.27 | Dagmar | Considering you can see the moon, and it appears a flash was used, either that's a hell of a camera or it just might be something someone stitched together with an HDR tool |
| 06:03.49 | NightHawkTheSane | Hm. Silly question but I've got a Lenovo laptop running vista with a 'servicev003' partition that it tells me is used for booting? If i want to partition the drive, install linux and dual boot, can i just nuke that partition and use grub normally? |
| 06:03.57 | Dagmar | You probably don't want to nuke that partition. |
| 06:04.18 | Dagmar | You can overwrite the MBR with lilo/grub, but that partition is likely to be used in case of failure |
| 06:04.19 | Arrowmaster | NightHawkTheSane: thats probably just a recovery partition, i bet you didnt get a windows install cd |
| 06:04.32 | Dagmar | i.e., it's either going to have a vista restore image in it, or diagnostics |
| 06:04.35 | ScytheBlade1 | I'd check if they have a custom bootloader installed, first |
| 06:04.44 | NightHawkTheSane | Arrowmaster: eh, it had a 'Lenovo' partition that it said was the recovery partition, i burnt some recovery dvds from that already |
| 06:05.08 | Dagmar | ScytheBlade1: Thankfully I've always been able to boot those with lilo or grub |
| 06:05.32 | NightHawkTheSane | wonders if he still has his ubuntu liveusb around somewhere |
| 06:05.35 | ScytheBlade1 | Dagmar: if that special partition is the one being booted, he may nuke his ability to start vista if he messes with it. |
| 06:05.54 | Dagmar | I don't see how since you can just boot Vista directly under normal circumstances |
| 06:05.57 | NightHawkTheSane | ^ largely what i'm concerned about |
| 06:06.00 | DWSR | SB1: Pft. |
| 06:06.07 | DWSR | I doubt it. |
| 06:06.12 | ScytheBlade1 | Pft all you want, I don't think he wants to take that chance :P |
| 06:06.16 | ScytheBlade1 | I wouldn't either :P |
| 06:06.20 | DWSR | Just because it's bootable doesn't mean it's being booted from. |
| 06:06.40 | NightHawkTheSane | ScytheBlade1: yarr. :) |
| 06:06.40 | Dagmar | I keep having people intimate that you somehow can't boot this, that, or the other OS with grub or lilo, but I've never seen it fail |
| 06:06.40 | ScytheBlade1 | "is used for booting" kind of told me that it was |
| 06:06.43 | ScytheBlade1 | Unless that wasn't clear, of course |
| 06:07.16 | Dagmar | Could be that's how they work their lojac |
| 06:08.13 | DWSR | Dagmar: LoJac's built into the mobo. |
| 06:08.54 | ScytheBlade1 | Windows isn't just "the other OS" - it has a very specific, picky bootloader |
| 06:08.56 | DWSR | Do you even have LoJac built into the thing? |
| 06:09.03 | DWSR | SB1: Yeah, chainloader +1 and gg. |
| 06:09.15 | DWSR | That's why Grub provides hide and a whole bunch of other shit. |
| 06:09.19 | Dagmar | There it is again |
| 06:09.30 | ScytheBlade1 | ... assuming that it HAS one... ASSUMING that his service partition isn't the one working the magic.. |
| 06:09.41 | Dagmar | It's easy enough to find out |
| 06:09.45 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 06:09.47 | Dagmar | lilo/grub bootdisk |
| 06:09.50 | ScytheBlade1 | Which is why I suggested he do so! |
| 06:10.13 | NightHawkTheSane | want to point me to how? i'm kinda a noob when it comes to windows booting and such :) |
| 06:10.14 | Dagmar | most service partitions are tagged with a partition type that Windows will just pretend it can't see |
| 06:10.23 | DWSR | no. |
| 06:10.32 | ScytheBlade1 | That doesn't mean it isn't being booted from |
| 06:10.48 | Dagmar | So, why would they boot from that partition? |
| 06:11.01 | ScytheBlade1 | Good question, ask them, but we don't know that they /aren't/ |
| 06:11.06 | Dagmar | It might be the hibernation partition |
| 06:11.18 | DWSR | No. |
| 06:11.31 | DWSR | Hiber.sys is on the system partition always, afaik |
| 06:11.36 | ScytheBlade1 | NightHawkTheSane: a grub disk would be useful. the chainloader +1 suggestion would verify if you can just nuke it entirely or not |
| 06:11.40 | Dagmar | Windows hibernation |
| 06:11.54 | Dagmar | I've got two laptops that with varying degrees of success handle hibernation directly. |
| 06:12.10 | Dagmar | ...cuz they'll hibernate Linux whether it likes it or not. :) |
| 06:12.38 | DWSR | Dagmar: There is no seperate partition to hibernate windows. |
| 06:12.49 | DWSR | The bootloader in Windows just makes a decision whether or not finds hiber.sys |
| 06:12.56 | Dagmar | I know. |
| 06:13.27 | ScytheBlade1 | NightHawkTheSane: if you can get to a grub prompt, hit the console and just type in "rootnoverify(hdX,Y)" where X is the drive from 0, and Y is the partition from 0 of vista - then "chainloader +1" and hit 'b' to boot those two lines. If it works, you can nuke your service partition without a worry |
| 06:13.47 | Dagmar | I'd look *in* the partition first to see what's in there |
| 06:15.39 | NightHawkTheSane | ScytheBlade1: working on that. :) |
| 06:16.32 | DWSR | I'm surprised I remember chainloader +1. |
| 06:16.39 | DWSR | Normally I have my grub.conf autogenerated for me |
| 06:16.47 | DWSR | Because I'm fucking lazy. |
| 06:18.27 | Corrodias | CHAINLOADER >:O I REMEMBER THAT COMMAND |
| 06:18.31 | Corrodias | sorry. bad memories. |
| 06:18.47 | DWSR | lol |
| 06:19.44 | NightHawkTheSane | also, to be sure, what's in the partition is the dirs, preboot, recovery, swwork, windows, and a 'recov.wim' file |
| 06:19.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (n=elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 06:21.22 | DWSR | Just a recovery partition |
| 06:21.26 | DWSR | gg rm- rf |
| 06:21.28 | DWSR | rm -rf |
| 06:21.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (n=Srosh@d019236.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 06:22.10 | ScytheBlade1 | recov.wim is a complete image used to reinstall vista |
| 06:22.23 | ScytheBlade1 | It's too bad I don't have that laptop, I'd want to poke with it |
| 06:23.16 | NightHawkTheSane | :P |
| 06:23.57 | ScytheBlade1 | no, seriously |
| 06:24.05 | ScytheBlade1 | I've been poking on and off with those images over the years |
| 06:25.53 | Dagmar | Same here. |
| 06:26.13 | Taroven | Question. How does pattern matching fare performance-wise over direct comparison given a small to midsize list of events to check on a regular basis? Example: For a function that watches for a pretty decent amount of combat log events, would it be better performance-wise to use direct compares (ie, event == 'SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL') or pattern match for the ones I'm looking for? |
| 06:26.16 | Dagmar | MS's installers always take freaking ages |
| 06:26.23 | NightHawkTheSane | in any case, thanks for the help guys :) |
| 06:26.29 | nevcairiel | all i did with those silly images is delete them, i hate oem-tainted os intsalls |
| 06:26.30 | Taroven | (yikes, longer than I thought that'd be...) |
| 06:26.40 | Dagmar | Taroven: Depends on how complex a pattern match |
| 06:26.49 | DWSR | Dagmar: MSI's seem to be unneccessarily long. |
| 06:27.20 | Taroven | Dagmar: Not very complex. |
| 06:27.29 | Dagmar | DWSR: Yeah, I've been dumping an image of windows into a recovery partition on my laptop each boot into Linux for awhile now |
| 06:27.45 | DWSR | qlol |
| 06:27.59 | Dagmar | Teroven: Then you can probably get away with some simple regexps just fine then |
| 06:28.06 | DWSR | 1 thing I like about 7/Vista over previous versions of Windows is the fact that it plays nice with DB now. |
| 06:28.12 | DWSR | XP always overwrote the MBR. |
| 06:28.22 | Dagmar | Heh |
| 06:28.23 | nevcairiel | Taroven, you could place the events you watch as keys into a table, do lookup like "if myevents[event] then".. |
| 06:28.39 | Dagmar | They must have changed that then because I certainly stomped LILO off the drive here |
| 06:28.40 | *** join/#wowuidev digmouse (n=chatzill@124.205.157.51) |
| 06:28.52 | nevcairiel | win7 certainly removed my grub as well |
| 06:29.11 | Dagmar | For a change I was already planning on going into the BIOS to change the disk order anyway |
| 06:29.35 | DWSR | Vista's BL can dual boot. |
| 06:29.44 | nevcairiel | so could XP |
| 06:29.49 | Dagmar | Yep. |
| 06:29.57 | nevcairiel | but its a PITA to get it to work right |
| 06:30.01 | nevcairiel | its easier to use a linux bootloader |
| 06:30.01 | Dagmar | Their customization options are limited, tho. ;) |
| 06:30.17 | Dagmar | You can't have drooling hairy demons without lilo/grub |
| 06:30.25 | Taroven | nevcairiel: That'd prolly be the easiest way to do it. I don't want a giant if statement of d00m, but I like to keep performance issues to a minimum. |
| 06:30.57 | nevcairiel | Taroven, well the table is not a big if thing, just one, and performance isnt affected by much ;) |
| 06:31.29 | Taroven | Yup. =P |
| 06:37.50 | NightHawkTheSane | bah. So yeah. It looks like attempting to boot directly from the main partition fails, grub says "BOOTMGR is missing" |
| 06:38.08 | NightHawkTheSane | that servicev003 partition must be a boot manager & recovery partition |
| 06:38.56 | NightHawkTheSane | I should still be able to split off some space and install linux, though, without touching that partition.. |
| 06:39.46 | ScytheBlade1 | can you boot the service partition, and it'll load up vista? |
| 06:39.55 | NightHawkTheSane | yep |
| 06:40.22 | Amarande | Night: sounds like your computer manufacturer is fail |
| 06:40.33 | ScytheBlade1 | This is why I said to check it ;) |
| 06:40.34 | Amarande | why can't they just give you a REGULAR WINDOWS INSTALL |
| 06:40.35 | Amarande | :| |
| 06:40.48 | Amarande | oh wait |
| 06:40.49 | Amarande | it's lenovo |
| 06:40.50 | Amarande | silly me |
| 06:40.52 | Amarande | heh |
| 06:41.10 | NightHawkTheSane | ScytheBlade1: well i wouldn't have done anything unless i was sure :) thanks for the help figuring it out |
| 06:41.11 | Gnarfoz | <DWSR> XP always overwrote the MBR. <-- so the win7 rtm doesn't anymore? the RCs and betas certainly did |
| 06:41.43 | ScytheBlade1 | DOS through 7 currently overwrites the MBR. |
| 06:41.53 | ScytheBlade1 | It isn't changing any time soon |
| 06:42.13 | Gnarfoz | dos what? |
| 06:42.25 | ScytheBlade1 | s/7/Win7/ |
| 06:42.54 | Amarande | Night: why do major computer manufacturers set up their systems in such a fail seeming manner instead of just setting up windows normally? :| |
| 06:43.01 | Jerub | the first thing i did when i got my lenovo laptop was erase the harddrive and install fedora. |
| 06:43.10 | Amarande | it makes me glad to have built my own desktop, and I suspect that, yeah, like Jerub says |
| 06:43.16 | Amarande | if I got a laptop, I'd raze the hard drive and install linux |
| 06:43.26 | Amarande | actually, that would just plain be the wisest thing for me to do with a laptop anyway |
| 06:43.28 | Gnarfoz | I can tell you the reason though: |
| 06:43.32 | Arrowmaster | i always reformat any computer i get |
| 06:43.33 | Gnarfoz | normal computer users are dumb |
| 06:43.34 | ScytheBlade1 | Amarande: it isn't fail for 95%+ of their customers. For that group, the chances that they'll break windows FAR outstrips the chance that they'll install anything else |
| 06:43.34 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 06:43.49 | Gnarfoz | exactly |
| 06:43.49 | Amarande | because I'd probably be using it while traveling, on networks which doubtless have much less security than my home LAN |
| 06:44.06 | Amarande | ergo, an OS with some semblance of a decent security model would be a good idea :P |
| 06:44.34 | Amarande | Jerub |
| 06:44.44 | Jerub | yeah, i agree. |
| 06:44.45 | Amarande | do you know if wi-fi networks like in hotels and on some Delta flights and such work with Linux? |
| 06:44.49 | NightHawkTheSane | Arrowmaster: if this were a personal laptop, I probably WOULD reformat it. It's a work laptop, and I really want to avoid fucking too much with the windows side. (I do have permission to dual boot linux, however) |
| 06:45.02 | Jerub | i have my work data encryped with ecryptfs and a different password to my login password. |
| 06:45.17 | Arrowmaster | NightHawkTheSane: your work fails hardcore for not reformating it already |
| 06:45.29 | Jerub | Amarande: yeah, there's no reason wifi won't work with linux. |
| 06:45.34 | NightHawkTheSane | Arrowmaster: oh.. they fail hardcore for a NUMBER of reasons that I'm not going to go into. :) |
| 06:45.42 | NightHawkTheSane | but they pay me, so meh. |
| 06:45.46 | Amarande | of course, the main reason I don't have a laptop is because new laptops that are halfway decent are EXPENSIVE |
| 06:45.52 | Arrowmaster | leveno put fucking adware on their laptops not long ago |
| 06:45.53 | Amarande | and finding an old laptop on ebay is a real pain in the ass |
| 06:46.04 | Amarande | because half the ones posted are broken ones "for parts" |
| 06:46.11 | Amarande | and they don't separate the broken ones from the ones that are actually usable :| |
| 06:46.24 | Amarande | it's like trying to get a used 60GB PS3 off of ebay |
| 06:48.01 | *** join/#wowuidev cncfanatics (n=cncfanat@WoWUIDev/cncfanatics) |
| 06:49.36 | Taroven | Hm. Doesn't luabot have a table print function? |
| 06:50.18 | nevcairiel | lua> pp({1,2}) |
| 06:50.18 | lua_bot | nevcairiel: { 1, 2 } (#1) |
| 06:50.31 | Taroven | Weird. |
| 06:50.39 | Taroven | Here's the code I'm trying to pass. |
| 06:50.45 | Taroven | lua> local config = {}; config.events = {}; config.cleu = {'foo','bar','lol'}; for i in config.cleu do config.events[config.cleu[i]] = true end; pp(config.events) |
| 06:50.46 | lua_bot | Taroven: luabot:1: attempt to call a table value |
| 06:51.43 | Taroven | I'd like to assume it's erroring at the pp() there, but now I'm not sure... |
| 06:52.49 | nevcairiel | you need a pairs() in the for loop |
| 06:53.30 | Taroven | for i in pairs(config.events)? |
| 06:53.34 | nevcairiel | lua> local config = {}; config.events = {}; config.cleu = {'foo','bar','lol'}; for _,i in pairs(config.cleu) do config.events[config.cleu[i]] = true end; pp(config.events) |
| 06:53.35 | lua_bot | nevcairiel: luabot:1: table index is nil |
| 06:53.42 | nevcairiel | oh |
| 06:53.48 | Taroven | I see now. |
| 06:53.50 | nevcairiel | lua> local config = {}; config.events = {}; config.cleu = {'foo','bar','lol'}; for i in pairs(config.cleu) do config.events[config.cleu[i]] = true end; pp(config.events) |
| 06:53.50 | lua_bot | nevcairiel: { ["bar"] = true, ["lol"] = true, ["foo"] = true } (#1) |
| 06:53.59 | Taroven | Yay. |
| 06:54.19 | Taroven | Wait, what'd you change in the second one? |
| 06:54.23 | industrial | ~seen Tuller |
| 06:54.25 | purl | tuller <n=muffins@pool-96-248-0-53.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowuidev, 5d 11h 46m 32s ago, saying: 'Cide: per the windows calculator 155'. |
| 06:54.26 | Taroven | 3am, can't think >.> |
| 06:54.30 | industrial | damnit |
| 06:54.36 | industrial | unreachable ppl ftl :| |
| 06:54.46 | Taroven | Oh, I see now. |
| 06:54.49 | Taroven | Perfect. |
| 06:56.56 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 07:00.31 | industrial | Why doesnt the world map let me click into dalaran |
| 07:00.34 | industrial | its always bugged me |
| 07:00.38 | industrial | it does for other cities |
| 07:02.07 | Taroven | industrial: No idea. |
| 07:05.24 | *** join/#wowuidev isman (n=drag@mlr78-3-88-162-68-235.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 07:08.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Lukian (i=lukian@203.123.90.21) |
| 07:10.14 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (i=smcn@67.166.76.157) |
| 07:15.16 | Taroven | Death by parenthesis. @.o |
| 07:17.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (n=Vilkku@dsl-tkubrasgw1-ffc7c100-46.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 07:27.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (n=kalroth@0x573f1066.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1101.hjnqu1.customer.tele.dk) |
| 07:27.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Kazie (n=Kazie@port207.ds1-vg.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 07:28.26 | Thunder_Child | sadly jibjab seems to have gone downhill |
| 07:29.18 | Amarande | jibjab? |
| 07:29.40 | Thunder_Child | jibjab.com |
| 07:35.15 | Shirik | they were a one hit wonder |
| 07:35.51 | Thunder_Child | well they did just do something with Weird al but it seems to be crap |
| 07:36.01 | Thunder_Child | though they were a bit more than one hit |
| 07:37.47 | Amarande | ah |
| 07:37.51 | Amarande | right now I'm addicted to Ayria, heh |
| 07:38.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Broken__ (i=dagmar@98.193.180.167) |
| 07:38.11 | Amarande | I saw them on the Sunday night of Dragon*Con and became an instant fan :D |
| 07:41.30 | Amarande | hmm. |
| 07:41.44 | Amarande | wonders how much hearing I'll be sans after tonight's excessively loud music listen. :) |
| 07:42.11 | Amarande | heh. ah well, as long as I can hear DBM warn me during a raid |
| 07:42.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Dagmar (i=dagmar@unaffiliated/dagmar) |
| 07:42.22 | Amarande | wb Dagmar |
| 07:59.03 | industrial | so Dominos uses [mod:ctrl] to show a bar when you press that key |
| 07:59.07 | industrial | or page, rather |
| 07:59.19 | industrial | what would be the correct syntax for the alt+ctrl+shift combo? |
| 07:59.55 | Amarande | industrial: I should give you a word of warning if you're planning on using any combos with ctrl+shift+etc. |
| 08:00.06 | industrial | why |
| 08:00.07 | Amarande | there's at least one such combination |
| 08:00.11 | Amarande | specifically, ctrl-shift-0 |
| 08:00.17 | Amarande | that certain versions of Windows (vista in particular) CANNOT use |
| 08:00.23 | Amarande | the OS literally disregards that combination of keys |
| 08:00.38 | industrial | o_O the OS? are you sure its not your keyboard? some keyboards do that. |
| 08:00.42 | Amarande | I discovered this when I was trying to set up keybindings for my fifth bar in bartender |
| 08:00.45 | Amarande | nope, it's the OS |
| 08:00.50 | Amarande | I confirmed this through googling afterwards |
| 08:00.56 | industrial | hm |
| 08:01.05 | industrial | well I'm using windows 7 here |
| 08:01.05 | Amarande | I had set up bar 1 as numbers, bar 2 as shifted numbers, bar 3 as alted numbers, and bar 4 as alted shifted numbers |
| 08:01.09 | *** join/#wowuidev pb_ee1 (n=nospam@meilleu015869-2.clients.easynet.fr) |
| 08:01.12 | industrial | however I still need to get it to work |
| 08:01.14 | Amarande | I was going to set up bar 5 as shifted controlled numbers |
| 08:01.24 | Amarande | but then I could never get the button in the "0" column to bind |
| 08:01.33 | Amarande | after a bit of trouble I went to search Google |
| 08:01.39 | Amarande | and discovered that the OS actively suppresses this key combo |
| 08:01.39 | *** join/#wowuidev krka (n=krka@85.225.123.127) |
| 08:01.42 | Arrowmaster | what does vista use it for? |
| 08:01.42 | industrial | I'm usually using just 4 bars of 12 with ctrl, shift and alt on the top 3 but I wanna move to 8*6 |
| 08:01.44 | Amarande | apparently, it pisses off some MS Office users too |
| 08:01.49 | Amarande | Arrow: doesn't seem to use it for anything |
| 08:01.55 | Amarande | it just disregards it entirely |
| 08:01.56 | Arrowmaster | then thats just fucking stupid |
| 08:02.03 | industrial | whats new, windows |
| 08:02.04 | industrial | :p |
| 08:02.29 | Arrowmaster | afaik the only key combo you couldnt override in windows was ctrl-alt-delete |
| 08:02.32 | Amarande | Arrow: I'm going to presume it was originally slated to do something system-important that got cut before release |
| 08:02.46 | Amarande | but the code to prevent applications from using it was already coded in somehow ... |
| 08:03.00 | Amarande | so now if you hit ctrl shift 0 it simply doesn't register the key-down event at all |
| 08:03.06 | Arrowmaster | does it work on xp? |
| 08:03.08 | Amarande | (although I think it actually registers the key-up event, oddly enough) |
| 08:03.10 | Amarande | wouldn't know |
| 08:03.14 | Amarande | I haven't had XP in years |
| 08:12.05 | industrial | http://code.google.com/p/tullamods/issues/detail?id=322&colspec=Addon%20Type%20Summary%20Priority%20Status%20Milestone |
| 08:12.15 | industrial | got it to work with all modifiers now :) |
| 08:18.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (n=caleb@dsl4E5C0228.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 08:19.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (i=lolgourr@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 08:21.32 | industrial | cool, only 6 buttons showing but I can use 48 on my keyboard only with the 1-6 keys :) |
| 08:23.18 | Taroven | Various combinations of ctrl+alt+shift? |
| 08:31.55 | industrial | all of them |
| 08:41.00 | *** join/#wowuidev MrRuben5 (n=MrRuben5@85.148.20.110) |
| 08:47.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (n=caleb@dsl4E5C0612.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 08:56.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (n=Cide@h161n1-far-gr100.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 08:56.45 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 09:01.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Thelyna (n=burp@222-152-89-17.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 09:01.57 | Yssaril | Amarande: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/967893 <-- fix for the ctrl+shift+0 issue |
| 09:03.29 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (n=p3lim@241.209.202.84.customer.cdi.no) |
| 09:08.26 | Amarande | "New Alliance options include human hunter, dwarf mage, night elf mage, gnome priest, and dwarf shaman." |
| 09:08.30 | Amarande | Night elf mage? Helloooooo Illidan? |
| 09:08.48 | Amarande | I thought the whole BC storyline was supposed to be the lore on why NEs weren't supposed to be mages? :) |
| 09:10.00 | Amarande | Yssaril: yay finally they post how to deal with such an obscure problem :) |
| 09:11.30 | Amarande | I like undead hunter though. I was disappointed a long long time ago when I found I couldn't make an undead hunter like I originally wanted to. |
| 09:11.30 | Amarande | I had this idea of an undead hunter with a spider pet. |
| 09:11.35 | Amarande | Of course, maybe it's a good thing that had to wait, since spiders used to be really crappy pets back in the day too :S |
| 09:12.32 | Amarande | hmm |
| 09:12.38 | Amarande | I can also see the battleground QQ starting already |
| 09:12.40 | Amarande | "Other worgen racials include a passive 1% increase to all damage, reduced duration from the effects of curses and disease" |
| 09:13.37 | Amarande | Like, joy, yay to hand ally a huge advantage in BGs for the beginning of Cat when -everyone- will try out the worgen |
| 09:13.50 | Amarande | more damage, plus horde locks and DKs especially will be at a disadvantage :| |
| 09:14.06 | Caleb| | Amarande you can already change to human hunter etc? |
| 09:14.25 | Caleb| | or you just talking about the new expansions features |
| 09:14.26 | Amarande | Caleb: they already added the new race/class combos? |
| 09:14.30 | Amarande | I thought that was waiting for Cat |
| 09:14.34 | Amarande | these are posted things that are going to be in Cat |
| 09:14.37 | Caleb| | thats what I just asked you :D |
| 09:14.51 | Amarande | and really, while the part about horde locks being at a disadvantage is kinda QQ'y on my part since my main is a lock |
| 09:15.03 | Amarande | and probably not all *that* bad since we have other debuffs besides our one curse per target |
| 09:15.11 | Caleb| | bloodfury > best pve racial |
| 09:15.15 | Caleb| | how are they in disadvantage? |
| 09:15.27 | Amarande | however, I don't even play a DK currently and I can see that horde DKs are going to have a disadvantage |
| 09:15.41 | Amarande | Caleb: the Alliance get a race that has a reduced disease and curse duration with Cat. |
| 09:15.47 | Amarande | The Horde do not get a race with any such advantages. |
| 09:16.13 | Amarande | Moreover, the Alliance race with these significant advantages is the NEW race, so the game, and thus the BGs will be flooded with worgen on Ally side for a good while. |
| 09:16.36 | Amarande | Curse duration nerfs locks a little ... but disease duration is really going to hurt the DKs on Horde side |
| 09:16.47 | Amarande | without giving, as far as I can see, ANY balancing advantage to Horde |
| 09:17.32 | Amarande | Goblins get no real counterbalance, 1% haste isn't really going to balance out that sort of racial for worgen |
| 09:17.45 | Amarande | all we get as horde with goblins is ... cheaper stuff, heh |
| 09:18.11 | Pneumatus | time is money, friend |
| 09:18.23 | Amarande | this is also seeming a bit strange: |
| 09:18.26 | Amarande | "There will be a new legendary two-handed axe available for death knights and hunters in Icecrown Citadel." |
| 09:18.56 | Amarande | mainly, people are having trouble imagining what kind of stats a weapon could possibly have to be targeted to those two classes in particular |
| 09:19.05 | Amarande | DK and hunter? that's about as disparate as you can get for targeting an axe |
| 09:19.17 | Amarande | DKs are hardcore melee weapons for which their weapon is one of their "heart and soul" items ... |
| 09:19.25 | Pneumatus | except people also read that it will be usable by any 2h sword weilding class, but not neccesarily itemized for them all |
| 09:19.28 | Amarande | Hunters use their melee weapon as, well, just a statstick, meanwhile |
| 09:19.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Daedals (n=Daedals@dsl-kpobrasgw1-ff7dc100-39.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 09:19.49 | Amarande | Pneumatus: perhaps, but I still can't think of an itemization that would simultaneously most benefit those two classes :) |
| 09:20.51 | Amarande | especially since it's *also* said that once Cat hits (which really means "4.0 a few weeks at least before the expansion actually goes live"), plate wearers will gain AP from strength, while mail wearers will get it from agility |
| 09:21.11 | Amarande | while AP itself will be totally deepsixed |
| 09:21.19 | Pneumatus | except they didnt say that either |
| 09:21.46 | Pneumatus | AP will still exist on stuff like necks/rings etc which will be viable for multiple classes |
| 09:21.49 | Amarande | Pneumatus: actually yeah they did |
| 09:21.56 | Amarande | there's a blue post on the EU boards |
| 09:22.02 | Amarande | http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=10543537977&sid=1 |
| 09:22.27 | Amarande | "Attack Power: We're removing Attack Power from items as well. Instead, we're allowing Agility to provide the necessary Attack Power for leather and mail wearers. Strength will provide the appropriate amount of Attack Power for plate wearers. This means leather and mail items will no longer be desirable for plate wearers. " |
| 09:22.39 | Pneumatus | that's not what ghostcrawler said on the class pannel |
| 09:22.53 | Amarande | great |
| 09:22.58 | Amarande | don't tell me they told different blues different things :| |
| 09:22.59 | Pneumatus | and seeing as he's lead game designer and the words came from his mouth, i'll believe him over Wryxian |
| 09:23.13 | Amarande | wtg customer relations dept FAIL |
| 09:23.41 | Pneumatus | that blue post is abridged, and misses some important points |
| 09:26.28 | Amarande | heh, I see people QQing now that the icecrown legendary is a 2H axe and not frostmourne |
| 09:26.37 | Amarande | umm, like helllloo? Frostmourne is SUPER MEGA NASTY CURSED? L2Lore? :) |
| 09:27.08 | Amarande | maybe we should let them instead wear that choker from Zul'Drak that really does turn you into a scourge slave :D |
| 09:28.17 | theorbtwo | That's actually not a half bad idea. It sometimes annoys me how scripted the game is. |
| 09:28.35 | Amarande | heh |
| 09:28.44 | Amarande | that might not be such a great idea though depending on what you'd have to do to be rid of it |
| 09:29.03 | theorbtwo | Let them put that on, and have it generate a psudo-mind-control-effect for a while and make them PvP/wrongfaction until a timeout happens and it vanishes. |
| 09:29.08 | Amarande | imagine all the forum QQ if characters get permanently screwed up or can only shamble around zul'drak forever until a mage or druid takes pity on them |
| 09:29.20 | theorbtwo | Nah, that'd be a bit much. |
| 09:30.26 | theorbtwo | There's a quest chain in early nightelf, though, where you help a Bad Guy, get in trouble for it, and then have to "redeem yourself". |
| 09:31.22 | theorbtwo | You can skip the quest chain, I guess, but there's no reward for doing so, and there is a reward for doing the chain. |
| 09:31.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@124.170.123.52) |
| 09:32.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Ne-vyn (i=lukian@203.123.90.21) |
| 09:34.59 | Amarande | There seems to be some worry also about it becoming difficult to impossible after Cat to roll a new character on a PvP server (particularly if on the minority faction) |
| 09:35.36 | Amarande | mainly since, with Azeroth getting all these new high level zones, there's going to be a lot of high levels in Azeroth to gank people as soon as they finish the 10-20 zones |
| 09:36.43 | theorbtwo | Perhaps they will be making the 1-20 zones take you further. |
| 09:37.54 | Slafsinator | I doubt that will be a problem. most high levels will explore the new world when wow 4.0 comes up, and when the expansion itself is released, high levels will be racing to 85 |
| 09:39.59 | theorbtwo | Slafsinator: Er, yes, that's not a problem... for high-levels. |
| 09:40.36 | theorbtwo | It might not seem like it from hanging around in here, but there are people playing WoW who don't have level 80 characters. |
| 09:40.56 | Slafsinator | yup |
| 09:43.09 | Amarande | "DonÂ’t let HC modes be obtainable with out rep from normal onesÂ… donÂ’t allow players to be dumb for that leads to dull play for the rest of us." |
| 09:43.17 | Amarande | wants to slap this poster, assuming HC means 'heroic' |
| 09:43.27 | Amarande | this is EXACTLY WHY LATE BC SUCKED BIG HAIRY ORCS. |
| 09:43.40 | Taroven | OKAY, I'm stumped. Really truly stumped... |
| 09:43.40 | nevcairiel | I liked requiring certain rep for being allowed in heroic |
| 09:43.45 | nevcairiel | not every nutjob was in there |
| 09:43.49 | Amarande | because, for the most part, you actually did have to do 70 normal instances in order to get into heroics |
| 09:43.58 | Amarande | which basically SCREWED anyone who got to 70 late |
| 09:44.00 | Wobin | ugh |
| 09:44.04 | Wobin | Lower City was terrible |
| 09:44.08 | Amarande | they were basically stuck in noob gear for the rest of BC |
| 09:44.18 | Taroven | For some reason I can NOT get EventHorizon to register HoT ticks as having fired, meaning tick indicators aren't showing in the past area of the bars. >_< |
| 09:44.20 | Amarande | because you never got accepted into heroics unless you had the gear from the 70 normal instances |
| 09:44.36 | Amarande | and you couldn't get the gear from the 70 normal instances because every time you tried to find a group for anything, no one was interested in anything but "heroic this" "heroic that" |
| 09:44.55 | Amarande | And then once they added the badges to kara, nobody even wanted to do 5-man at all |
| 09:44.59 | nevcairiel | so how does the reputation play into that? even without a limit, you wouldnt have the gear :P |
| 09:45.22 | theorbtwo | That's the basic problem with letting your players set the requirements for playing your game. |
| 09:45.24 | nevcairiel | anyway, i never had such issues on my alts |
| 09:45.32 | nevcairiel | but wait, thats just because i had friends! |
| 09:45.34 | nevcairiel | :P |
| 09:45.36 | Amarande | nevcairiel: I'm presuming that that sort of requirement system would lead back into a BC type gear progression situation |
| 09:45.45 | Amarande | nev: s/friends/"the right friends to actually get to do instances" |
| 09:45.57 | nevcairiel | if they are friends, thats a given |
| 09:46.00 | Wobin | >< |
| 09:46.02 | Wobin | "The best new dk 3's team = dk/enh/enh and you can call it Kanyeplay since it's based on interrupts. " |
| 09:46.09 | Amarande | I had plenty of friends. The problem was they didn't have 70s, and if they did, they had DPS 70s like mine, and finding tanks and healers was even harder than it is now. |
| 09:46.14 | theorbtwo | Myself, I just avoid instances more or less completely. |
| 09:46.38 | nevcairiel | Amarande, people without gear should not go into heroics, thats just it. the reputation was a nice thing to keep them completly out, and force them to run instances to get gear |
| 09:46.40 | Amarande | theorbtwo: how do you gear up then? :) |
| 09:46.51 | nevcairiel | Amarande, so play a tank alt :D |
| 09:47.15 | Amarande | nevcairiel: yeah, but what I'm saying is requiring people to get gear from normal to be able to play in heroics is a bad idea |
| 09:47.22 | nevcairiel | no, its not. |
| 09:47.27 | theorbtwo | Amarande: I find I can play OK in the gear I've got, and I don't give a flying fuck what anybody else thinks of my gear, because I'm not trying to get into instances with them? |
| 09:47.38 | theorbtwo | Of course, I'm also not level capped yet. |
| 09:47.41 | nevcairiel | whats the point of normal at all, if the gear is not required to do heroics? |
| 09:48.07 | Ne-vyn | to learn the goddamn instance before you join a heroic group and wipe them :p |
| 09:48.12 | Amarande | nevcairiel: basically, it means unless you totally suck it down and abandon the notion of friends guilds entirely, you're never going to get characters geared up for heroics unless you were leveling fast and hard from day one |
| 09:48.24 | Amarande | so you could get the gear while people were still interested in DOING normals |
| 09:48.31 | Amarande | before the whole server degenerates into "we only wanna do heroics" |
| 09:48.35 | nevcairiel | you think a 5-man group of people just hitting 70 (or 80 for that matter) should be able to do heroics instantly? |
| 09:48.39 | Amarande | which was EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED IN BC. |
| 09:48.49 | nevcairiel | tell you what, unless they have raid gear from the previous expansion, they can't |
| 09:49.17 | Ne-vyn | nevcairiel, but they *could* have high level quest reward blues, which will do fine in heroics (if they know how to play) |
| 09:49.19 | Amarande | I hit 70 in March 2008, and by then I had basically zippo in gearing prospects because I wasn't geared for heroics, and if you were lucky you found one group for steamvaults or mechanar every week or so. |
| 09:49.21 | nevcairiel | and you think 4 people that already ran the normals should pick up a total stranger in green gear and pull him through because the world is so cruel? well i wouldnt :P |
| 09:49.28 | Ne-vyn | greens? no |
| 09:49.57 | Amarande | nevcairiel: so basically you're saying, someone who hits the max level late in an expansion should basically just suck it down and accept all they can do is do dailies and level up the rest of their alts to the cap thinking forward to the next expansion instead? |
| 09:50.01 | nevcairiel | at least in wotlk you could get pretty good gear from reputation and quests |
| 09:50.16 | Amarande | and yeah, in WotLK you actually had reasonable gear from rep and quests |
| 09:50.19 | Amarande | in BC, you didn't really |
| 09:50.33 | nevcairiel | crafting gear wasnt that bad |
| 09:50.35 | Amarande | or the rep gear was placed at revered or exalted, which basically forced you to find the instance groups to grind up the rep you needed |
| 09:50.36 | nevcairiel | for heroics, anyway. |
| 09:50.54 | nevcairiel | (in BC) |
| 09:51.04 | nevcairiel | the tailoring stuff was nice for most casters |
| 09:51.06 | Amarande | because the quests took you only so far and a lot of factions had either no non-instance rep grind beyond that at all, or the rep grind repeatables stopped short too |
| 09:51.20 | nevcairiel | and if you're late to the party its already available on every corner |
| 09:51.28 | Amarande | nevcairiel: not really |
| 09:51.32 | Amarande | the best tailoring stuff was all BoP |
| 09:51.38 | nevcairiel | so be a tailor <.< |
| 09:51.42 | Amarande | which basically forced -every- caster to take tailoring, even if you already had 1 or 2 tailors already |
| 09:51.53 | Amarande | let's put it this way, actually |
| 09:51.55 | nevcairiel | life isnt fair, you know |
| 09:51.57 | Amarande | my priest was already tailor/enchanter. |
| 09:52.03 | Amarande | I started my warlock specifically to *have* a miner/JC |
| 09:52.36 | theorbtwo | nevcairiel: Life? Who said anything about life? |
| 09:52.37 | Amarande | should I have had to suck it down and ditch one for tailoring? especially since I'd been leveling them as I went? |
| 09:52.48 | Amarande | which meant if I nixed JC for tailoring, all that money invested was gone |
| 09:52.49 | theorbtwo | This is a game -- it's supposed to be *fun*. |
| 09:53.01 | Amarande | and if I ditched mining, well, then I wouldn't get to do much JC without my source of supplies |
| 09:53.17 | nevcairiel | theorbtwo, the game is only fun if you don't play it alone, which was my point earlier, get some friends, and its all a non-issue |
| 09:53.28 | Amarande | not only was all the best tailoring stuff BoP anyway |
| 09:53.36 | Amarande | but it was such that even if you relied on it |
| 09:54.01 | Amarande | you were still doomed to be a do-nothing for a couple MONTHS anyway after hitting 70 |
| 09:54.21 | nevcairiel | you can't expect them to fix the game to work for *everyone* that is late and lonely :P |
| 09:54.21 | Amarande | because you needed like 25-30 or so of your special cloth to make the set, could only make two at a time with a 4 day CD |
| 09:54.32 | *** part/#wowuidev Movix (n=Movix@82.242.144.196) |
| 09:54.38 | theorbtwo | CD? |
| 09:54.42 | Amarande | cooldown. |
| 09:54.48 | theorbtwo | Aha, of course. |
| 09:54.49 | Amarande | tailoring special cloth all had a 4 day cooldown in BC |
| 09:55.07 | Amarande | the WotLK special cloth has it still, as far as I know |
| 09:55.13 | Amarande | although they did remove the cooldown from the BC stuff |
| 09:55.17 | Wobin | http://www.teefury.com/images/articles/ndikol-banner.gif |
| 09:55.37 | Amarande | and made the BC tailoring special sets BoE, though that doesn't actually really do any good since you have to be an appropriately specced tailor to wear the stuff, anyway |
| 09:55.47 | nevcairiel | i don't get it Wobin :P |
| 09:56.02 | Amarande | so AHing frozen shadowweave/primal mooncloth/whatever the hell the other set was is about as ineffective as AHing engineering stuff :) |
| 09:56.04 | theorbtwo | Amarande: It sounds like you really want more solo content. |
| 09:56.12 | theorbtwo | tends to agree. |
| 09:56.28 | Amarande | theorbtwo: I'm mostly glad that WotLK avoided the spiral of sadness that BC was basically trapped in |
| 09:56.39 | Wobin | nevcairiel: they're just designs |
| 09:56.46 | Wobin | I thought they were cute =) |
| 09:56.52 | Amarande | see, right now, it works like this for a fresh character without a large raiding guild to support them: |
| 09:56.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Stanzilla (n=Stan@irc.kuja.in) |
| 09:56.54 | Amarande | you get to 80 |
| 09:56.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Sentri (n=sentri@tango-179.srv.hosting.fi) |
| 09:57.04 | nevcairiel | i liked BC more then Wotlk |
| 09:57.05 | Amarande | you do the quests and then dailies for the various factions |
| 09:57.19 | Amarande | you get the rep gear, and then you're OK to get started on the easier heroics and work your way up to a starter raid set to go to naxx. |
| 09:57.30 | Amarande | which really works out quite nicely. |
| 09:57.48 | Amarande | in BC, you got to 70, you did the quests for the various factions, and found you for the most part still weren't high enough rep to get the rep gear that was actually good |
| 09:57.57 | Amarande | and that the only way to get more was from instances |
| 09:58.06 | Amarande | you tried to get groups for normal instances, but couldn't because everyone was on heroics by then |
| 09:58.32 | Amarande | and so, unless you had thousands and thousands of gold to spend on stuff on the AH, you couldn't get geared up to get into heroics and thus never even got to see kara. |
| 09:58.44 | nevcairiel | i never even had those issues on my alts, granted i was leveling with a friend, but we always had enough people in LFG to fill groups |
| 09:58.49 | Amarande | which of these scenarios better fits the definition of "fun"? :) |
| 09:58.54 | Amarande | nevcairiel: which server did you play on? |
| 09:59.09 | nevcairiel | a german one, wouldnt help you much :P |
| 09:59.14 | Amarande | I tried level 70 on two servers, Quel'dorei and Turalyon US |
| 09:59.24 | nevcairiel | Antonidas-EU |
| 09:59.26 | Amarande | Turalyon was so progressed that basically hardly ever was anyone ever bothered to do a normal 70 instance |
| 09:59.53 | Amarande | eventually, after a friend advised me about the gear that heroics called for, I weighed my options and ended up transferring |
| 10:00.08 | Amarande | I chose Quel'dorei because it was fairly notorious for having a slow progression rate so maybe I could get groups there. |
| 10:00.35 | Amarande | I did, and there I somehow managed to get some half-decent gear that got me a fighting chance to get into Kara. |
| 10:00.49 | theorbtwo | I do wonder how much the difference is that there were more basic 70 instances then basic 80s -- if you wanted to do a basic 80, you did naxx, no question, but if you wanted a 70, you had choices, so it was split? |
| 10:00.50 | Amarande | but I still only even got to go to kara once |
| 10:01.17 | Amarande | theorbtwo: I'm sure the large number of 70 instances may have spread people out too much |
| 10:01.24 | Wobin | unfortunately, the 'end game' instances are only interesting at the correct level range =( |
| 10:01.52 | Amarande | there is also the fact that in BC they still stuck to the dungeon set paradigm for starter 70 gear |
| 10:02.02 | Amarande | while non-tier gear in WotLK is strictly mix and match |
| 10:02.41 | Amarande | basically, in WotLK, you run a few heroics at 80 and you start filling in gear slots pretty quickly, it's a hodgepodge but one that works. |
| 10:02.55 | Amarande | and it doesn't really matter THAT much which heroics you run except for a few gear slots |
| 10:03.03 | Amarande | (like caster wand, where only AN or UK are worth considering) |
| 10:03.24 | *** join/#wowuidev ruduvvi (i=iamparad@c-68-57-80-15.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 10:03.36 | Amarande | in BC, you basically needed specific instance runs and you needed them a lot. |
| 10:04.02 | Amarande | Sucked to be a warlock, whose DS3 was mostly found in the 70 instances everyone either hated going to, or just failed utterly at if they didn't |
| 10:04.15 | Amarande | I think we had two from Shadow Labs and one from Shattered Halls, from the last boss in both |
| 10:04.30 | Amarande | can't remember where the other two Oblivion pieces came from off the top of my head now |
| 10:04.31 | theorbtwo | It does seem like part of the problem is that there's no difference for how long it takes to gear up a bad player and a good one, or at least not much. |
| 10:04.34 | Amarande | Arcatraz, I think was one |
| 10:04.44 | Amarande | but yeah, that proves the point, Arc was also one of the more evil of the 70 instances even on normal |
| 10:04.53 | theorbtwo | You finish the instance, you get N rep, no matter how much you kicked ass at it, right? |
| 10:05.07 | Amarande | theorbtwo: yeah, rep worked pretty much that way |
| 10:05.18 | Amarande | A big problem also was badges |
| 10:05.23 | Amarande | Heroic instances give badges. Normal ones do not. |
| 10:05.44 | Amarande | After BC had been in play for long enough, people didn't even care about anything at all from 5-mans, even on heroic, except the badges |
| 10:05.52 | Amarande | they'd exalted with what they cared about long before |
| 10:06.31 | Amarande | so people understandably only wanted to do heroics (and skip heroics like Auchenai Crypts that only had two badges for the whole thing) |
| 10:06.43 | Amarande | Then came 2.4 and badges from raid bosses, which killed even that |
| 10:06.55 | Amarande | because, frankly, half the 70 heroics were harder than kara |
| 10:07.22 | Amarande | why go to exasperatingly hard heroics for 2-4 badges apiece when you could do kara for 10+ badges (forget exactly how many) which was actually easier? |
| 10:07.51 | Amarande | Which pretty much meant then that if you had a new 70 you were no longer even looking at getting into heroics to have a hope at good gear |
| 10:07.55 | Amarande | you were looking at somehow sneaking into KARA |
| 10:08.00 | A-KO | well the only reason people care about 5 mans now is the daily heroic giving 2 triumph badges |
| 10:08.49 | A-KO | and being able to farm toc 5 normal for crystals |
| 10:08.52 | Amarande | A-KO: to some extent rep, also |
| 10:09.03 | Amarande | there's some factions (kirin tor especially) that are just painfully slow to grind via dailies |
| 10:09.04 | Taroven | YAY I FINALLY GOT IT WORKING |
| 10:09.09 | Amarande | and you don't get tabard rep in raids |
| 10:10.02 | Amarande | kirin tor I think there's like 3 dailies that don't involve instancing somehow |
| 10:10.10 | Amarande | and if you're not a JC, that falls to 2 |
| 10:10.24 | Amarande | and if you don't have grandmaster cooking, then you only have the fishing daily for 250 rep to rely on |
| 10:11.04 | theorbtwo | It does seem like blizz aren't particularly good at replacing instances that don't have enough players with solo content. |
| 10:11.17 | Amarande | theorbtwo: yeah, I think you hit it on the head |
| 10:11.18 | A-KO | I dunno everyone I know has all the reps they need |
| 10:11.30 | A-KO | well, they shouldn't. |
| 10:11.34 | A-KO | the game isn't a solo game :P |
| 10:11.45 | Amarande | A-KO: again, people not in raiding guilds who just got a character to 80? |
| 10:11.45 | A-KO | MSORPG |
| 10:12.04 | Amarande | if they're late to the party they should what, shelve their character and unsubscribe till expansion gives them a new chance? what? |
| 10:12.34 | A-KO | Amarande: sure, but eventually the server's population as a whole moves past that. What blizzard has done is enforced that even people who moved past that will run a heroic at least once a day |
| 10:12.35 | Amarande | basically, you're saying it's fair to expect people to need to get a party for group content that no one is interested in partying for anymore |
| 10:12.45 | A-KO | everyone else did it? |
| 10:12.55 | Amarande | and still making this a virtual requirement to get past that level of progression |
| 10:13.09 | Amarande | A-KO: most of us did it when people were still interested in partying for said content :) |
| 10:13.41 | Amarande | myself, I have gear that can probably get me started in naxx, but now I have to deal with the having missed the T7 and T8 stage hurdle |
| 10:13.51 | Amarande | meanwhile, Alvaerin is all dolled up with nowhere to go :| |
| 10:14.09 | A-KO | you can get conquest badges from heroics now, putting you in some 226 gear. You can get 200 crafted epics, and in some cases get 226 crafted epics if really necessary. Run a couple of pug Naxxes, Ulduars, OS25's, and you're geared up mostly as much as raiders are and should be able to get into a decent enough guild. |
| 10:14.33 | Amarande | I can also apparently get a 226 dalaran ring for 8800g now. |
| 10:14.46 | Amarande | Haha to the poor suckers who didn't bother to get exalted with Kirin Tor :D |
| 10:15.01 | Amarande | what do the dalaran rings cost at neutral again? :) |
| 10:16.02 | Amarande | Right now, I have all 200's except for a couple of 187 blues |
| 10:16.13 | A-KO | hell you can pug toc 10 in 219-226 gear, which will get you into 232-245 gear |
| 10:16.22 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvaan (n=sylvanaa@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 10:16.32 | Amarande | hopefully some naxx pugs open over the weekend |
| 10:16.40 | Amarande | although I won't be home till late the next three nights |
| 10:16.55 | Amarande | tonight was just horrid for trying to get a group for anything, it seemed like every DPS on the server was hanging out in /2 |
| 10:17.00 | Fisker | slaps Wobin around a bit with a large trout |
| 10:17.12 | Amarande | like I said earlier, I took six seconds to /w a person saying LF DPS for H-TOC 5 that "I'll go" |
| 10:17.17 | Amarande | and it was apparently already too late to be chosen |
| 10:17.28 | Amarande | not that I'd know, since the guy wasn't even polite enough to tell us that the group was full |
| 10:17.37 | Wobin | hate that |
| 10:17.55 | Amarande | http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Turalyon&n=Alvaerin <--- me, currently |
| 10:18.19 | Wobin | I mean if you're going to advertise for a slot, have the decency to not keep people waiting if you fill it |
| 10:18.33 | Shirik | I come |
| 10:18.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (n=chatzill@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 10:18.36 | Shirik | from a land down under |
| 10:19.25 | Wobin | Lies |
| 10:19.29 | Shirik | :( |
| 10:22.59 | Fisker | slaps Shirik around a bit with a large trout |
| 10:23.07 | Shirik | Are you going to run? |
| 10:23.11 | Shirik | Are you going to take cover? |
| 10:23.20 | Shirik | Because you better run; you better take cover. |
| 10:27.29 | Amarande | btw, that gear *is* good enough for TOC5 heroic, I'm assuming, so I wasn't being laughed off by the guy wanting DPS for it? :) |
| 10:31.46 | Slafsinator | Amarande: you might want to respec kaboom as well :) |
| 10:33.10 | Amarande | Slaf: is destro doing more DPS now? |
| 10:33.14 | Amarande | or does that depend on tier, like BC? |
| 10:33.24 | Slafsinator | dunno as I never tried affliction |
| 10:33.30 | Amarande | I remember in BC aff started out better but gave way to destro around T5-T6 or so |
| 10:33.38 | Slafsinator | but destro is hella easy getting very high DPS with |
| 10:33.44 | Fisker | http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Ravencrest&n=Fisker <-my gear isn't good enough for naxx or voa :( |
| 10:33.55 | Amarande | aff is pretty easy too, as long as you pay attention and don't let dots drop off |
| 10:33.56 | Slafsinator | and in heroics, you need to be able to damage before mobs die, which dots fail to do :) |
| 10:34.04 | Amarande | and are willing to accept that your dps on trash sucks :) |
| 10:34.22 | Amarande | but generally sacrificing boss DPS to be better on the trash is a bad tradeoff :D |
| 10:34.33 | Fisker | Blizzard should almost be making a DPS achievement |
| 10:34.41 | Slafsinator | you're not sacrificing boss DPS as destro :) |
| 10:35.26 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar (n=sylvanaa@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 10:36.10 | Amarande | I guess I've just shied away from the destro playstyle though |
| 10:36.15 | Slafsinator | then again, when the raids/instances you run are a big compilation of interesting and non-interesting trash mobs, hypothetically sacrificing boss DPS for trash DPS wouldn't be such a bad idea ;P |
| 10:36.15 | Amarande | if I wanted to be a mage, I would have been a mage :S |
| 10:36.32 | Slafsinator | you're not exactly a mage though :) |
| 10:37.30 | mikma | heh |
| 10:37.38 | mikma | monkey island: SE is on sale, 4.99 |
| 10:37.44 | Amarande | I'll have to go see the training dummy when I'm in Org next and see which I do better with |
| 10:37.51 | mikma | 4.49e* |
| 10:37.53 | mikma | http://store.steampowered.com/app/32360/ |
| 10:38.18 | Pneumatus | i paid £7 for that :< |
| 10:38.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (n=Cide@h161n1-far-gr100.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 10:38.50 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 10:39.17 | Pneumatus | 3.49 GBP |
| 10:40.50 | Amarande | anyway |
| 10:40.52 | Amarande | the sky is glowing |
| 10:40.54 | Amarande | time to get some sleep |
| 10:40.55 | Amarande | night :) |
| 10:41.52 | Cruciformer | 'lo all |
| 10:47.24 | Cruciformer | anyone with cursefoo around? |
| 10:47.32 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (i=harl@dslb-084-063-116-194.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:53.47 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 11:03.22 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (n=airtonix@118.210.149.54) |
| 11:06.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan (n=pancake@cpe-174-098-002-214.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 11:07.36 | mikma | i has L4D! whee |
| 11:07.47 | mikma | well, not yet but i'm downloading it |
| 11:07.58 | mikma | also, seems like i got Unreal Tournament 3 as gift, prolly from steam |
| 11:08.25 | Arrowmaster | its a free weekend |
| 11:08.36 | mikma | Unreal Tournament 3 Black Sep 2009 Free Weekend |
| 11:08.40 | mikma | apparently |
| 11:09.06 | mikma | that's clever i must admit |
| 11:14.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Tenchworks (n=none@76-231-27-217.lightspeed.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net) |
| 11:14.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper (n=Spellsha@dslb-084-057-247-030.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:28.04 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (i=spode@213-21-88-111.bon.t3.se) |
| 11:33.52 | *** join/#wowuidev EthanCentaurai (n=ethan@89.243.151.238) |
| 11:43.02 | mikma | cairenn: cairenn cairenn cairenn cairenn! |
| 11:43.10 | Cairenn | what? |
| 11:43.31 | mikma | is there any way of seeing when have i uploaded the first version of my addon in wowi? |
| 11:45.17 | Cairenn | I thought there was somewhat, but I'm not seeing it real quick right now, and I'm minutes away from walking out the door |
| 11:45.35 | Cairenn | you can try asking D.olby when he wakes up |
| 11:45.58 | mikma | will do. would be cool to see when the person has uploaded that addon in wowi at the right side |
| 11:46.14 | mikma | current date is for the latest version, which is neat too. |
| 11:46.27 | Cairenn | I'm almost positive I've seen somewhere that it says when it was originally uploaded and when it was last updated |
| 11:46.46 | *** join/#wowuidev boshi23 (n=chris@c-75-75-186-99.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 11:46.58 | Cairenn | but don't quote me on that, and it's also entirely possible that I've seen it somewhere in admin menu or something |
| 11:47.05 | mikma | aye. |
| 11:47.24 | Cairenn | sorry I can't help more |
| 11:47.37 | Cairenn | would keep looking for you, but .... |
| 11:47.43 | mikma | is cool, have fun wherever you're going :) |
| 11:47.59 | Cairenn | down to NYC to spend some time with my hubby |
| 11:48.05 | mikma | oh wow |
| 11:48.17 | mikma | long trip! |
| 11:48.21 | Cairenn | haven't seen him since Christmas :( |
| 11:48.23 | mikma | remember, THROW THE WALLET |
| 11:48.30 | mikma | do not give it to the person robbing you. |
| 11:48.37 | mikma | after throwing, run |
| 11:48.38 | Cairenn | so really looking forward to it :) |
| 11:48.43 | Cairenn | rofl, yes, I remember |
| 12:08.50 | MentalPower|AFK | have fun in NYC Cairenn! |
| 12:09.37 | Elkano | btw, Cairenn, give the one who made the new addon comment layout a hug from me :) |
| 12:10.25 | [SW]Dodge | elkano /sign |
| 12:10.26 | [SW]Dodge | :D |
| 12:10.48 | Cairenn | Elkano: that'd be D.olby |
| 12:10.51 | Cairenn | MentalPower|AFK: thanks :) |
| 12:11.17 | Elkano | small change but somehow looks better :) |
| 12:11.19 | Cairenn | okay guys, I'm out, our ride will be here in about 15 minutes |
| 12:11.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (n=Testing@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 12:11.49 | Elkano | have fun :) |
| 12:12.00 | Elkano | and get back well :) |
| 12:12.09 | Cairenn | :) |
| 12:13.39 | Cairenn | hugs everyone and poofs |
| 12:13.52 | Cairenn | be good, have fun, take it easy on my staff, see you Wednesday night |
| 12:17.12 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (i=harl@dslb-088-077-194-222.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:23.47 | *** join/#wowuidev digmouse (n=chatzill@115.170.26.182) |
| 12:29.15 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 12:41.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Gotai (n=Gotai@ip503d59c0.speed.planet.nl) |
| 12:48.55 | mikma | http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/5/8/2/5/4/5/ss_preview_Hospital_AssassinHallway.jpg.jpg?slideshow=true |
| 12:49.08 | mikma | STEALTHLIGHTSABRENAZI |
| 12:49.21 | roastx | is chrome vulnerable to javascript attacks? |
| 12:49.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@141.222.29.18) |
| 12:49.38 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 12:49.39 | roastx | i used to use an addon called noscript with firefox that let me selectively enable js for domains |
| 12:49.55 | roastx | dunno if theres anything like it for chrome or if chrome is just fine by itself |
| 12:51.14 | Lopeppeppy | I know a lot of people who said they wouldn't swap to Chrome until it had plugins, to have access to things like NoScript |
| 12:56.04 | olafski | indeed |
| 12:56.07 | olafski | adblock too plx ;) |
| 12:56.17 | olafski | and if possible gestures |
| 12:59.01 | A-KO | chrome doesn't need noscript.... |
| 13:01.46 | Lopeppeppy | is lurking to give Seerah a birthday cake. |
| 13:02.04 | Fisker | slaps Lopeppeppy around a bit with a large trout |
| 13:02.13 | Fisker | denied |
| 13:09.56 | Lopeppeppy | I will have my cake, and eat it too. |
| 13:15.40 | Fisker | slaps Lopeppeppy around a bit with a large trout |
| 13:16.24 | Lopeppeppy | *yawn* |
| 13:20.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper (n=Spellsha@dslb-084-057-247-030.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:28.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Sesshu (n=Sesshu@ip-242-17.travedsl.de) |
| 13:30.13 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (n=Adium@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 13:30.13 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 13:30.35 | *** join/#wowuidev cncfanatics1 (n=cncfanat@91.177.5.9) |
| 13:31.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Jerek_Dain (n=JerekDai@71-82-127-149.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) |
| 13:37.11 | alestane | "Some new perks for Modern Warfare 2: Posthumously stab players that attempt to teabag you." |
| 13:37.29 | Lopeppeppy | *sigh* |
| 13:38.56 | alestane | Scanning my morning comics. |
| 13:40.41 | alestane | http://xkcd.com/638/ um |
| 13:41.00 | Lopeppeppy | all the little ants go marching, one by one they are marching... |
| 13:47.17 | mikma | alestane: http://matin.maapallo.org/kuvatuuppari/ctrlaltdel/1342/20090918.jpg ? :) |
| 13:47.36 | alestane | Yes, that. |
| 13:47.48 | mikma | the west thing is funny |
| 13:47.58 | mikma | eventho i don't know what the hell did he do in the shitfest anyway :D |
| 13:48.42 | Lopeppeppy | He snagged the mike from a sweet little country girl in the middle of her acceptance speech, to rant and rave about how someone else deserved her award more. |
| 13:49.27 | mikma | rap-"singers" are the greatest, eh? |
| 13:49.42 | alestane | Was that the Taylor Swift thing someone was going on about yesterday? |
| 13:51.13 | Lopeppeppy | Yups. |
| 13:52.22 | alestane | I'm not completely gassed about her music, but that seems like a really crappy thing to do. |
| 13:53.20 | Lopeppeppy | Hey, her music is whatever, I'm not much of a fan either. I am, however, a fan of simple common courtesy, which means Kanye is a jerk. |
| 13:54.16 | alestane | When someone gets an award for something, you congratulate them. If you have a problem with the judgement, you take it up later, privately, with the judges. |
| 13:55.34 | Lopeppeppy | Or you sit still and STFU. Playing the "better" game is just rude. |
| 13:59.37 | olafski | or you cap the judges |
| 13:59.41 | olafski | gotta stay in the business here |
| 13:59.42 | roastx | why does chrome need noscript? |
| 13:59.48 | roastx | is it super-secure? |
| 14:01.06 | Lopeppeppy | NoScript isn't just about security, it's about blocking ads and banners and popups and all the other annoying things that can happen. Those also contribute to security, of course... but I use it to avoid all of the stupid ads on web pages. |
| 14:01.10 | roastx | the leno kayne apology was too pathetic to watch |
| 14:01.17 | roastx | yeah |
| 14:01.30 | roastx | thats another reason i liked it, the blocking of ad servers |
| 14:01.40 | roastx | so id just allow the main domain |
| 14:02.00 | roastx | or any other media subdomains selectively |
| 14:02.46 | roastx | i know a few sites i dont like going to without noscript on |
| 14:03.01 | roastx | because i have gotten trojans through em before |
| 14:03.35 | Lopeppeppy | Yup. Ads are a great way to slip in malware, it's really common on Facebook. |
| 14:03.45 | roastx | had some trojan that jacked my msn pw and used it to spam msg everyone |
| 14:03.56 | roastx | had to change my pw |
| 14:04.27 | roastx | that was through firefox too |
| 14:04.53 | roastx | wasnt running noscript at the time :| |
| 14:05.06 | Lopeppeppy | It's a beautiful little addon |
| 14:13.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 14:14.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Aelobin (n=Aelobin@85.210.10.221) |
| 14:21.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (n=chatzill@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 14:26.01 | olafski | what kind of site was that roastx? |
| 14:26.16 | olafski | I never had such a thing happen to me without noscript.. I do most of my browsing on a pc without msn though |
| 14:32.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Synpra_ (n=Synpra@75.80.16.10) |
| 14:34.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan@c-76-107-191-65.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 14:34.36 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 14:34.58 | alestane | HAPPY BIRTHDAY! |
| 14:35.15 | nevcairiel | who? |
| 14:35.51 | theorbtwo | Seerah. |
| 14:35.53 | alestane | Seerah! |
| 14:35.55 | nevcairiel | Oh. |
| 14:36.01 | nevcairiel | Happy Birthday Seerah :) |
| 14:36.04 | Seerah | thanks, guys :) |
| 14:36.16 | Lopeppeppy | Heya, Seerah, happy hoooopties! |
| 14:36.22 | theorbtwo | Happy birthday, person I only know it's the birthday of because somebody else mentioned it earlier! |
| 14:36.27 | Seerah | hoooopties? |
| 14:36.28 | Seerah | :) |
| 14:36.29 | theorbtwo | ...and many more! |
| 14:36.40 | Lopeppeppy | Hoopties are great fun, trust me. |
| 14:37.05 | Seerah | okay :) |
| 14:38.58 | nevcairiel | ~wiki hooptie |
| 14:39.18 | nevcairiel | somehow i think thats not it |
| 14:39.41 | Seerah | hehe |
| 14:40.20 | theorbtwo | thinks Lopeppeppy is calling Seerah a broken-down old thing, and Seerah should be horribly insulted. |
| 14:40.33 | theorbtwo | Come here, seerah, and I'll make it all better. </joking> |
| 14:40.42 | Seerah | heh :) |
| 14:41.16 | Lopeppeppy | Meanie. |
| 14:41.26 | Seerah | yeah you are |
| 14:41.27 | Seerah | jk :) |
| 14:41.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Awgy (n=Awgy@cpe-098-122-141-216.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 14:42.43 | Fisker | denies Seerah his birthday |
| 14:42.47 | Lopeppeppy | Harumph. No cake for you! |
| 14:43.17 | Fisker | already denied that as well |
| 14:43.20 | theorbtwo | Fisker: Aww, it's your birthday too? |
| 14:43.29 | Seerah | oh, good thing you were talking about a different Seerah, Fisker :p |
| 14:44.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Keias (n=bleh@pool-72-86-106-233.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 14:45.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Lukian (i=lukian@203.123.90.21) |
| 14:46.05 | Seerah | oooh - what a nice surprise! My new motherboard (had to return/exchange it) will be arriving today :) |
| 14:46.26 | Seerah | hubby can still finish my computer for my birthday :) |
| 14:47.06 | theorbtwo | Cool. |
| 14:47.11 | Fisker | damnit |
| 14:47.21 | Seerah | it's been sitting on the floor in pieces for like two weeks |
| 14:47.53 | Fisker | it's cool story bro Thelyna |
| 14:49.37 | Lopeppeppy | That's excellent news, Seerah. A new comptuer is a good computer. |
| 14:50.26 | Seerah | And I'll have 6GB RAM now instead of 4, cause we had to order more when troubleshooting the mobo ;) |
| 14:50.38 | theorbtwo | How *horrible* for you! |
| 14:50.46 | Seerah | :DDD |
| 14:55.45 | Fisker | Are there any numbers of the total amount of wow realms in every region? |
| 14:59.33 | Wobin | http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_SqhhJb_P3Kk/SrOZqJOs2jI/AAAAAAAAJIw/9b2F_7u0O00/s1600-h/tomato+rabbit.jpg |
| 15:03.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (n=Vilkku@86-60-157-242-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi) |
| 15:07.29 | mikma | wobin: you sure that's a tomato? |
| 15:07.39 | Lopeppeppy | Adorabubble! |
| 15:07.45 | Wobin | It could be a BUNNY |
| 15:08.39 | Lopeppeppy | The death by tomato bunny! |
| 15:10.51 | Fisker | :o |
| 15:11.27 | Fisker | Blizzard have like 22 severs per realm on average |
| 15:13.14 | foxlit | Counting those that have nothing to do with realms? |
| 15:14.13 | Fisker | not according to Blizzard |
| 15:18.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (n=kalroth@2506ds1-hj.0.fullrate.dk) |
| 15:23.47 | Adys | http://garfieldminusgarfield.net/post/190955856 |
| 15:23.59 | cog|work | RAWR |
| 15:24.04 | Adys | HELLO |
| 15:24.09 | cog|work | HAI |
| 15:24.14 | Adys | ASL |
| 15:24.41 | cog|work | Sorry... don't know how to do sign language over teh intertubes |
| 15:24.46 | cog|work | :P |
| 15:24.56 | Adys | I said ASL not USL |
| 15:25.16 | cog|work | ~dict ASL |
| 15:25.38 | Adys | isnt it supposed to be Universal Sign Language? |
| 15:26.06 | cog|work | America isn't very universal imo... |
| 15:26.14 | Cruciformer | anyone on at the moment that has curse approval-foo? |
| 15:26.32 | theorbtwo | It's not even universal amongst those who would otherwise speak English; British Sign Lanaguage is quite different. |
| 15:27.05 | Adys | well I bet it is |
| 15:27.09 | Adys | gotta do it all without the pinky |
| 15:27.15 | Adys | terrible. |
| 15:28.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (n=Lunessa@WoWUIDev/Lunessa) |
| 15:29.07 | Lunessa | Happy Birthday to Seerah. Happy Birthday to Seerah. Happy Birthday to Seeeeeee-raaaaaah! Have a plate of cookies or two! |
| 15:29.24 | Seerah | mmmm! thanks, Lunessa! |
| 15:29.44 | Adys | happy bday seesee |
| 15:29.59 | Lunessa | I was going to do a bug report for TipTop, but I logged into WOWI to see you'd already fixed it. :) |
| 15:31.43 | Seerah | I am very sneaky sir |
| 15:32.34 | Lunessa | Indeed. One might suspect you of bring a rogue if you weren't a mage. |
| 15:33.55 | Cruciformer | Q about those weird characters people like to use in their names. I have an export-to-XML option and someone is saying I need to use encoding="ISO-8859-1" instead of encoding="UTF-8". Is he correct? I thought UTF-8 could represent those characters correctly. |
| 15:34.04 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (n=p3lim@241.209.202.84.customer.cdi.no) |
| 15:34.46 | Pneumatus | utf-8 should be capable of displaying anything :o |
| 15:34.48 | Cruciformer | Up at the top in teh xml declaration that is: <?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?> |
| 15:35.16 | Lunessa | I suspect he's being pedantic. |
| 15:36.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (n=xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 15:36.17 | Cruciformer | I know nothing about that crap so I just don't know what to tell him. |
| 15:36.34 | Lunessa | It couldn't /hurt/ to use that. |
| 15:37.11 | Cruciformer | what I'm thinking is this. Would ISO-8859-1 even be appropriate for, say, the Russian client? |
| 15:37.22 | Pneumatus | nop |
| 15:37.26 | Pneumatus | as it's only got latin chars |
| 15:37.27 | Gnarfoz | Seerah shares her birthday with my guild? Awesome. Happy birthday! :D |
| 15:37.41 | Cruciformer | and can UTF-8 represent Cyrillic? |
| 15:37.48 | Lunessa | Yes. |
| 15:37.51 | Pneumatus | yes |
| 15:38.01 | Cruciformer | so in terms of being generically useful, he's wrong? |
| 15:38.02 | Gnarfoz | yeah, don't listen to him, he doesn't understand it any more than you do |
| 15:38.03 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 15:38.14 | cog|work | UTF-8 can represent pretty much any character set. whether the font is capable of displaying it is another story... |
| 15:38.14 | Cruciformer | lol thanks gnarfoz :) |
| 15:38.18 | Seerah | Gnarfoz: thanks :) |
| 15:38.27 | Lunessa | I just looked up the standard, and ISO-8859-1 isn't all that universal. |
| 15:38.38 | theorbtwo | Cruciformer: The question is what your XML file is actually in. |
| 15:38.54 | theorbtwo | If the <?xml?> tagging doesn't match what is actually in the file, your file is broken. |
| 15:39.19 | Cruciformer | as far as Im concerned its in lain ASCII except it can contain user names, which, thanks to wow allowing it, can have those weird characters. |
| 15:39.31 | Cruciformer | *lain=plain |
| 15:39.39 | *** join/#wowuidev kdtresh (n=kdtresh@76.212.99.109) |
| 15:39.41 | theorbtwo | He's probably trying to say that your file contains latin-1, even though the <?xml?> bit claims it's latin-1 -- so you need to either change the content of the file, or you need to change the header line. |
| 15:39.44 | Pneumatus | or are russian/chinese etc |
| 15:39.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (n=Vilkku@86-60-157-242-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi) |
| 15:40.12 | theorbtwo | The easiest thing to do is normally make sure you escape anything that's not plain ascii, or let your xml handling library handle it for you. |
| 15:40.57 | theorbtwo | In perl, you want to do s/([^ -~])/sprintf "&#x%04x;", ord $1/ge; |
| 15:41.43 | Lunessa | Shirik: Minon installed Healbot - again. For no readily apparent reason. |
| 15:41.55 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR (n=brandonm@24.114.252.243) |
| 15:43.13 | DWSR | Guess who's going to see Deaduam5! |
| 15:43.16 | DWSR | Deadmau5* |
| 15:43.26 | Cruciformer | let me ask the question this way. If I was simply outputting a string, lets say the return value of UnitName(), what XML encoding would I use? |
| 15:43.52 | Cruciformer | so the only XML past the header is simply <string val="%s" /> |
| 15:44.12 | Cruciformer | where %s is UnitName() |
| 15:44.24 | alestane | I *think* WoW encodes its strings in UTF-8. |
| 15:45.04 | DWSR | Enough about strings. Let's talk about the mouse. |
| 15:45.07 | DWSR | The dead one |
| 15:45.15 | DWSR | rocks out |
| 15:45.33 | Lunessa | Can we talk about DangerMouse instead? |
| 15:45.40 | DWSR | No. |
| 15:45.43 | DWSR | He's fail. |
| 15:45.57 | DWSR | Red undead mouse ftw. |
| 15:46.00 | Lunessa | Did you never see the cartoons? |
| 15:46.15 | DWSR | Noope. |
| 15:46.24 | kdtresh | what about deflater mouse? |
| 15:46.30 | Lunessa | *sigh* |
| 15:46.31 | nicoli_s | you mean dangermouse the rapper? |
| 15:47.00 | kdtresh | mighty mouse? |
| 15:47.10 | Lunessa | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danger_Mouse_%28TV_series%29 |
| 15:47.38 | DWSR | Sorry, but I'm so pumped to see Deadmau5 live. |
| 15:48.10 | DWSR | Gonna be a stonkin' good time. |
| 15:49.10 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR (n=brandonm@24.114.252.243) |
| 15:58.54 | alestane | Does anyone know whether there's any note-worthy interaction between dual-wielding and parry chance? |
| 15:59.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (n=Kaso@host217-43-240-82.range217-43.btcentralplus.com) |
| 15:59.18 | DWSR | what do you mean? |
| 15:59.24 | DWSR | Your chance to parry or an enemy's chance to parry you? |
| 15:59.36 | alestane | The dual-wielder's chance to parry. |
| 15:59.43 | DWSR | No. |
| 16:00.05 | DWSR | btw, is Gormok supposed to have a parry-haste mechanic on hardmode? |
| 16:00.18 | DWSR | I was told he wasn't, but our tank was getting parry gibbed by a retarded DPS. |
| 16:00.21 | alestane | So, parry applies to main-hand only, but another weapon doesn't impair it? |
| 16:00.49 | DWSR | alestane: As far as I know. |
| 16:00.58 | cog|work | is there really any reason to use the inline keyword in modern C++ compilers? |
| 16:01.15 | cog|work | s/in /with / |
| 16:01.24 | nevcairiel | sure |
| 16:01.31 | alestane | cog|work: As far as I know, the compiler can make that call at least as well as you can, and I think some of them just ignore you. |
| 16:02.11 | cog|work | alestane: that's the impression I have as well. |
| 16:02.12 | nevcairiel | if you know that a function will be called particularly often and the compiler doesnt know that (for whatever reason), it can be smart to inline it manually |
| 16:02.35 | nevcairiel | gcc by default doesnt ignore you, you can turn on some compiler flag that allows it to ignore you, though. |
| 16:02.49 | DWSR | nevcairiel: A modern compiler should be able to figure it out though, shouldn't it? |
| 16:03.02 | nevcairiel | compilers don't always have the whole picture |
| 16:03.09 | alestane | DWSR: It can't predict typical usage patterns. |
| 16:03.21 | DWSR | nevcairiel: Truth |
| 16:03.27 | DWSR | *shrugs* |
| 16:03.30 | nevcairiel | say you write a lib, and you have some function that gets called a gazillion times, it might be smart to inline all function calls in that particular function |
| 16:03.40 | nevcairiel | the compiler would never know how often an external tool calls your lib |
| 16:04.16 | DWSR | Is a gazillion an SI prefix? :P |
| 16:05.48 | Lunessa | Fuck-ton > Crap-Ton > Asslaod > crapload > bajillion > gazillion |
| 16:06.11 | theorbtwo | 10**several |
| 16:08.19 | cog|work | 10↑↑10 imo (and FU to fonts without arrows) |
| 16:20.22 | cog|work | "It's a plastic surgeon you need, not a doctor." -John Cleese |
| 16:22.00 | Lopeppeppy | It's lunch I need, not an orthopedist. |
| 16:22.15 | Lopeppeppy | Lunessa-dear, go back to bed. *hug* |
| 16:22.24 | theorbtwo | cog|work: In the british tradition, surgeons get addressed as "mr", not "dr". |
| 16:22.41 | Lunessa | I might. Shortly. Need to get something in my stomach that will stay down. |
| 16:22.54 | DWSR | Lunessa: A rock! |
| 16:23.03 | DWSR | But not a rock. |
| 16:23.06 | DWSR | A rock lobster! |
| 16:23.07 | Lunessa | A small one maybe. |
| 16:23.26 | theorbtwo | Drywall! |
| 16:23.27 | Lopeppeppy | Crackers first, lobster later. |
| 16:23.47 | cog|work | theorbtwo: interesting.... |
| 16:24.15 | theorbtwo | All of the nutrition of a rock, but less of that heavy feeling! |
| 16:25.49 | roastx | i just ate 4 slices of pizza |
| 16:25.56 | roastx | i only weigh 400lbs |
| 16:26.03 | DWSR | lol |
| 16:26.22 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 16:26.22 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 16:26.43 | Lunessa | I'm not going to lie. I'm fat and have a huge martian ass. But I can't seem to keep food down. Picked up a bug at work. |
| 16:26.59 | DWSR | lol |
| 16:27.06 | DWSR | Seems to be going around/. |
| 16:27.10 | roastx | i lost 15lbs in a month since i started work |
| 16:27.16 | roastx | around 200ish |
| 16:27.27 | roastx | i bike there and back |
| 16:27.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Proditor (i=proditor@c80-217-111-204.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 16:27.39 | roastx | like 15k |
| 16:27.48 | DWSR | uphill both ways? |
| 16:28.08 | roastx | straight up both ways |
| 16:28.13 | roastx | even worse |
| 16:28.22 | DWSR | . |
| 16:29.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso| (n=Kaso@host217-43-240-82.range217-43.btcentralplus.com) |
| 16:35.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphon (n=gryphon@c-76-104-164-148.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 16:36.17 | *** join/#wowuidev zenzelezz (n=zenzelez@240.76.34.95.customer.cdi.no) |
| 16:36.26 | Lunessa | I'm close enough to work (2.5 miles) that I should start walking it. |
| 16:38.49 | Slafsinator | 2.5 miles!? you need a SUV to cover that distance daily, mister. |
| 16:39.18 | Lunessa | I have an SUV thank you very much |
| 16:39.40 | nevcairiel | 2.5 miles is too long for me to walk, takes too long, get a bike .. still good and all, just faster :D |
| 16:40.05 | Lunessa | The problem is it's usually too goddamned hot to walk. |
| 16:40.28 | Slafsinator | 2.5 miles takes ~40-50 minutes to walk |
| 16:40.32 | Shirik | Lunessa: Email your log to tg.skullshot@gmail.com please |
| 16:40.40 | Shirik | ~minionlogs |
| 16:40.44 | Shirik | ~minionlog |
| 16:40.48 | Shirik | something like that |
| 16:40.50 | Lunessa | Shirik: Will do. |
| 16:40.50 | Shirik | it's on wowi |
| 16:40.52 | Shirik | bye |
| 16:42.32 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR (n=brandonm@24.114.252.243) |
| 16:43.09 | zenzelezz | interesting... managed to plug the network cable far enough out that it gave ~97% packet loss, but not far enough that it was completely disconnected |
| 16:43.32 | nicoli_s | with a +/- 3% error |
| 16:46.33 | Lopeppeppy | And why would you do that? |
| 16:49.20 | A-KO | that's a pretty damn long run |
| 16:59.08 | Adys | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waking_the_Dead_(TV_series) |
| 16:59.11 | Adys | Anyone watched this? |
| 16:59.28 | Adys | if so, is it any good? |
| 16:59.28 | Lopeppeppy | Has no time. |
| 17:03.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Recluse (n=me@71.145.153.242) |
| 17:08.21 | zenzelezz | don't suppose anyone here is familiar with making an onboard Marvell Yukon network adapter work in Linux? |
| 17:09.33 | *** join/#wowuidev zenzelezz (n=zenzelez@240.76.34.95.customer.cdi.no) |
| 17:09.39 | zenzelezz | oops... |
| 17:09.59 | zenzelezz | X-chat did not appreciate my request for a transparent background |
| 17:11.09 | kdtresh | i had no luck with the yukon in osx86 |
| 17:11.22 | kdtresh | don't think i've tried it in linux though |
| 17:11.38 | zenzelezz | "no luck" sounds very much like my experience at the moment |
| 17:11.51 | Adys | http://failblog.org/2009/09/14/texas-stadium-fail/ |
| 17:11.56 | kdtresh | i had to throw in a cheap d-link pci nic i had laying around |
| 17:28.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (n=caleb@dsl4E5C0612.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 17:35.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Odlaw (i=Unknown@c-98-245-39-78.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 17:38.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper (n=Spellsha@84.57.247.30) |
| 17:47.57 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (i=smcn@67.166.76.157) |
| 17:54.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (n=caleb@dsl4E5C0612.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 18:04.49 | *** join/#wowuidev taleden (n=atfrase@user-38q41i6.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 18:13.41 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 18:13.41 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 18:18.36 | Bruners | haste: i think you have been ninjaed to lead this raid |
| 18:18.49 | haste | Bruners: christ |
| 18:30.34 | *** join/#wowuidev cbreak (n=cbreak@217-162-238-189.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 18:32.48 | Fisker | hey haste |
| 18:33.25 | Fisker | LFM Naxx 25 link full legendary, link killing all bosses in icecrown within 10 second within eachother while still being in barrens assisting players in the location of mankrik |
| 18:34.31 | zenzelezz | Mankrik's easy to find, it's his wife that's tricky |
| 18:34.39 | Lopeppeppy | For serious. |
| 18:34.57 | Fisker | oh u zenzelezz |
| 18:35.07 | zenzelezz | very much so Fisker |
| 18:35.28 | Fisker | there should be a brain achievement which raid leaders would have to link blizzard before they're allowed to form groups |
| 18:35.35 | Fisker | that reminds me btw |
| 18:35.46 | Fisker | some elitist mage didn't want me in voa |
| 18:36.02 | Fisker | then i hearthed to dalaran and saw the WG timer was 15 minutes |
| 18:36.22 | Fisker | then i told him pro-tip: bosses banish themselves 15 minutes prior to each WG |
| 18:36.39 | Fisker | well actually it was "How's the raid going" |
| 18:36.42 | Fisker | THen the pro-tip |
| 18:36.50 | Fisker | and then "player is ignoring you" |
| 18:37.03 | Adys | every time someone doesn't want me in an instance I can be cool and link my [Realm First! Level 80] |
| 18:37.10 | Adys | that means I'm cooler than you Fisker |
| 18:37.20 | Fisker | tsk |
| 18:37.25 | Fisker | i got realm first level 80 too |
| 18:37.30 | Fisker | ...for blood elves |
| 18:37.36 | Adys | way to go |
| 18:37.58 | Adys | did you at least get paladin? |
| 18:38.00 | Fisker | my rogue has even done trial of the crusader 10 |
| 18:38.06 | Fisker | naw |
| 18:38.11 | Adys | failure |
| 18:38.13 | Fisker | alliance were powerleveling |
| 18:39.12 | cog|work | wishes they made caffeinated yogurt |
| 18:39.32 | zenzelezz | just stirr some coffee into it |
| 18:39.43 | ScytheBlade1 | probably wouldn't be hard to pull off yourself |
| 18:39.54 | cog|work | should just suck it up and buy a bottle of caffeine powder |
| 18:40.00 | ScytheBlade1 | There you go. |
| 18:40.09 | zenzelezz | sniffing caffeine? |
| 18:43.06 | Fisker | slaps zenzelezz around a bit with a large trout |
| 18:43.07 | Fisker | slaps ScytheBlade1 around a bit with a large trout |
| 18:43.08 | Fisker | slaps cog|work around a bit with a large trout |
| 18:43.28 | cog|work | slaps Fisker around a bit with a large Shirik |
| 18:44.35 | Adys | is there a way to know from cli which FS a partition is? |
| 18:45.40 | Fisker | i thought mount did that |
| 18:46.04 | Adys | oh |
| 18:46.19 | Adys | i was thinking of df |
| 18:46.20 | Adys | thanks |
| 18:46.45 | cog|work | http://www.aonevitamins.com/caffeine.htm |
| 18:47.11 | cog|work | the $51.95 bottle is equivalent to ~1000 cups of coffee >< |
| 18:47.29 | Lopeppeppy | Oh jeebus. You are sooooo addicted, cog-dear. |
| 18:47.41 | cog|work | chuckles |
| 18:47.54 | cog|work | i need to upload an updated pic of my caffeine shrine... |
| 18:48.01 | Lopeppeppy | Pictures please!! |
| 18:50.23 | *** join/#wowuidev AnduinLothar (n=KarlKFI@WoWUIDev/Cosmos/AnduinLothar) |
| 18:50.23 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v AnduinLothar] by ChanServ |
| 18:50.40 | *** join/#wowuidev robotusch (n=robotusc@50A2D902.flatrate.dk) |
| 18:50.56 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah|away (n=Ryan@c-76-107-191-65.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 18:53.52 | Kazie | Does any of you know if there's a similar API(i think it's called) for masterlooter, as for IsLeader() ? |
| 18:54.10 | nevcairiel | !api masterloot |
| 18:54.11 | lua_bot | Found 2 possible results for 'masterloot': GetMasterLootCandidate, GiveMasterLoot |
| 18:54.20 | nevcairiel | probably not =P |
| 18:54.23 | Arrowmaster | !api GetLoot |
| 18:54.24 | lua_bot | Found 7 possible results for 'GetLoot': GetLootMethod, GetLootSlotLink, GetLootThreshold, GetLootSlotInfo, GetLootRollItemInfo, GetLootRollTimeLeft, GetLootRollItemLink |
| 18:54.31 | Arrowmaster | first one |
| 18:54.49 | Arrowmaster | !api GetLootMethod |
| 18:54.49 | lua_bot | GetLootMethod: Returns information about the current loot method in a party or raid (http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/GetLootMethod) |
| 18:54.53 | Kazie | Won't that just return the loot method? and not the Master Looter s person? |
| 18:55.00 | Kazie | as* |
| 18:55.11 | Arrowmaster | click the link |
| 19:04.33 | Kazie | Does anyone know how to return simple text like L or R og P with lua text? |
| 19:05.06 | Kazie | simply printing letters or text of my own choosing |
| 19:06.10 | cog|work | Lopeppeppy: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2339424&l=86de0a5a6e&id=563064469 |
| 19:06.44 | Lopeppeppy | Good, I see the new purple mountain dew in there. |
| 19:08.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Droolio (n=drool@87-194-188-170.bethere.co.uk) |
| 19:08.31 | *** join/#wowuidev cbreak (n=cbreak@217-162-238-189.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:09.03 | ScytheBlade1 | http://www.journal-news.net/page/content.detail/id/525232.html |
| 19:09.09 | ScytheBlade1 | "Facebook addiction has finally caused real world consequences, at least for one would-be burglar. It seems that 19-year-old Jonathan Parker couldn't stay away from the popular social networking site, even long enough to rob a house. Parker not only stopped mid-robbery to check his Facebook status on the victim's computer, but left it logged in to his account when he left." |
| 19:09.49 | Shadowed | Robbers are stupid, news at 11! |
| 19:10.06 | Arrowmaster | and he didnt steal the computer? |
| 19:10.10 | Arrowmaster | fail robber |
| 19:10.19 | kdtresh | it was a packard bell |
| 19:10.21 | Shadowed | definitely |
| 19:15.19 | foxlit | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx7v815bYUw |
| 19:20.03 | *** part/#wowuidev Colin_T (n=ColinT@69-11-97-130.regn.static.sasknet.sk.ca) |
| 19:20.13 | *** join/#wowuidev ColinT (n=ColinT@69-11-97-130.regn.static.sasknet.sk.ca) |
| 19:20.27 | *** join/#wowuidev ColinT (n=ColinT@69-11-97-130.regn.static.sasknet.sk.ca) |
| 19:20.36 | *** part/#wowuidev ColinT (n=ColinT@69-11-97-130.regn.static.sasknet.sk.ca) |
| 19:22.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Pewpewarrows (n=Pewpewar@c-24-126-106-246.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) |
| 19:22.56 | *** join/#wowuidev wejfilwf (i=dagmar@unaffiliated/dagmar) |
| 19:25.06 | Arrowmaster | i am really getting tired of gnome and its bloat |
| 19:25.39 | Arrowmaster | i should reinstall lxde |
| 19:27.37 | wejfilwf | Good luck with that |
| 19:27.59 | Arrowmaster | ? |
| 19:28.02 | Dagmar | Man I love booting people off my nick |
| 19:28.07 | Dagmar | Have you seen the new KDE? |
| 19:28.24 | Dagmar | I'm astonished anyone can tolerate it's new launcher |
| 19:28.26 | Arrowmaster | yes |
| 19:28.41 | Arrowmaster | i said lxde not kde |
| 19:28.49 | *** join/#wowuidev ColinT (n=ColinT@69-11-97-130.regn.static.sasknet.sk.ca) |
| 19:28.51 | Dagmar | Like, normally I build dropline using from within KDE. This time I'm forced to work under XFCE |
| 19:28.52 | Dagmar | Ohhh |
| 19:29.51 | Adys | Dagmar: which launcher? |
| 19:29.53 | Adys | kickoff? |
| 19:30.13 | Dagmar | Whatever that crazy thing with the sliding menus that seems to require four clicks and two gestures to launch anything is |
| 19:30.23 | Adys | yeah |
| 19:30.27 | Adys | more windowsey crap |
| 19:30.28 | Arrowmaster | some new gnome-user-share package just installed apache2 on my desktop |
| 19:31.09 | Dagmar | Blame your packagers |
| 19:31.27 | Arrowmaster | i do |
| 19:31.37 | Dagmar | ...unless you told your pakcage manager to follow even optional dependencies |
| 19:32.01 | Arrowmaster | as long as i have the 'gnome' package installed i cant remove that gnome webbrowser either |
| 19:32.16 | Adys | theres a "gnome" package? |
| 19:32.18 | Dagmar | What? Firefox? |
| 19:32.24 | Adys | epiphany |
| 19:32.28 | Arrowmaster | no epiphany |
| 19:32.35 | Dagmar | Force it |
| 19:32.39 | Dagmar | Epip isn't required |
| 19:32.50 | Adys | neither is that "gnome" package |
| 19:33.07 | Adys | its prolly a metapackage pulling all of gnome's bullshit |
| 19:33.15 | Adys | what distro anyway? |
| 19:33.23 | Arrowmaster | i know, i have a shell script to edit package dependancies but im too lazy to edit it and keep it edited |
| 19:33.25 | Dagmar | fc10, right? |
| 19:33.33 | Arrowmaster | debian |
| 19:33.42 | Dagmar | Freakin' weird |
| 19:33.54 | Adys | just remove that package? |
| 19:34.00 | Dagmar | There's _something_ you can set that'll make it skip the more edge-case deps |
| 19:34.04 | Dagmar | I just can't remember what it is |
| 19:34.09 | Arrowmaster | http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/gnome |
| 19:34.11 | Adys | --without-recommends |
| 19:34.11 | Arrowmaster | see all the depends |
| 19:34.16 | Dagmar | Debian's package manager, I suspect, is too subtle for mortal men |
| 19:34.40 | Dagmar | I've had MythBuntu downgrade itself to plain Debian before, and managed to make the opposite happen as well |
| 19:35.19 | Dagmar | I'm just waiting for the day when someone installs MS true type fonts for the web, and they've got extra licence agreement checks enabled that causes it to install Win98 in a separate partition |
| 19:35.24 | Arrowmaster | i would blame that on the sub distro not using their own package repo |
| 19:35.48 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: They just had a release with the wrong settings for the repos is all |
| 19:36.00 | Dagmar | I thought it was funny when it just apt-get removed itself, basically |
| 19:37.52 | Dagmar | I'll have a new build of Dropline in a few days if Comcast will stop s*d*m*z*ng my local headend |
| 19:43.52 | Arrowmaster | hmm if i wanted to make firefox open certain mime types itself rather than trying to download them would i mess with browser.contentHandlers.types.* |
| 19:45.14 | Arrowmaster | i have no clue where that stuff is stored in firefox settings |
| 19:45.49 | Dagmar | Set it in the system's mime-types |
| 19:45.53 | Kazie | !API GetRaidRosterInfo |
| 19:46.08 | mikma | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwxN8sCIOOE |
| 19:46.10 | Arrowmaster | i dont want to change the system settings |
| 19:46.12 | Kazie | Not working much? :o |
| 19:46.32 | Arrowmaster | i just want to be able to view things like shell scripts in firefox without downloading them |
| 19:47.02 | Dagmar | Ah that one you'll need to edit in Firefox then |
| 19:47.26 | Dagmar | The mime types the servers usually send is not normally going to make Firefox think it's viewable text |
| 19:47.35 | Arrowmaster | i know |
| 19:47.52 | Arrowmaster | ah ha, mimeTypes.rdf |
| 19:50.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Movix1 (n=Movix@mail.schiffmann.fr) |
| 19:53.27 | mikma | http://www.geekologie.com/2009/09/pathetic_burglar_stops_to_chec.php |
| 19:54.19 | Adys | mikma: is it the facebook thing? |
| 19:54.39 | Dagmar | Yep |
| 19:54.47 | mikma | http://www.geekologie.com/2009/09/i_could_eat_it_worlds_biggest.php |
| 19:57.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 19:58.25 | Kazie | !api GetRaidRoster |
| 19:58.25 | lua_bot | Found 2 possible results for 'GetRaidRoster': GetRaidRosterInfo, GetRaidRosterSelection |
| 19:58.37 | Kazie | !api GetRaidRosterInfo |
| 19:58.37 | lua_bot | GetRaidRosterInfo: Returns information about a member of the player's raid (http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/GetRaidRosterInfo) |
| 20:01.14 | Kazie | wouldn't GetRaidRosterInfo(raidMaster) work? or am i wrong here? |
| 20:02.15 | Kazie | I keep getting an error message saying the usage is GetRaidRosterInfo(index) .. :s |
| 20:02.27 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/8207 YES! |
| 20:02.28 | kdtresh | what is raidMaster? |
| 20:02.53 | Dagmar | Oh that's handy |
| 20:03.37 | Kazie | kdtresh: ment GetRaidRosterInfo(isML) .. :) a bit confused here hehe |
| 20:04.05 | Kazie | You can see it on http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/GetRaidRosterInfo |
| 20:04.50 | Adys | Kazie: it doesnt work that way |
| 20:05.16 | Kazie | I figured, but how does it work then? |
| 20:05.25 | Kazie | I'm still very new to all this lua stuff |
| 20:05.43 | Adys | that function returns a list |
| 20:06.04 | Adys | if you want to access specific returned values from it do like the example shows |
| 20:06.07 | Adys | name, rank, subgroup, level, class, fileName, zone, online, isDead, role, isML = GetRaidRosterInfo(index) |
| 20:06.14 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: and it works very nicely, i wonder if theres a way to make it automatic |
| 20:06.30 | Adys | if you want that last one just use select(11, GetRaidRosterInfo(index)) |
| 20:06.48 | Dagmar | That would be hacking up the mime types, but you've still got no guarantees about how misconfigured the remote apache server might be |
| 20:07.24 | Kazie | Ahh.. so to specify which i want i simply just use it that way? |
| 20:07.25 | Arrowmaster | yeah i know |
| 20:13.04 | industrial | sigh why does firefox change the window you get when downloading something when the server wants to? with some servers you cant select 'always choose this option' or if thats already on it will just ignore it and ppop up and ask you to make a decision |
| 20:13.16 | industrial | this is deliberately done so the server can decide |
| 20:13.40 | industrial | I think thats very anoying, isn't the browser supposed to manage my downloads not give me more work? |
| 20:13.43 | Arrowmaster | firefox just uses what the server tells it |
| 20:13.49 | industrial | yes why |
| 20:14.17 | Arrowmaster | for example if the server has a mime entry to make .torrent files application/x-bittorrent then your .torrent preferences will work |
| 20:14.27 | Dagmar | Because the server is in theory, in a much better position to know what a given file is |
| 20:14.34 | industrial | what if I just want to download all files |
| 20:14.42 | Arrowmaster | but if the server is stupid and just sends application/octet-stream then it will always prompt |
| 20:14.50 | Dagmar | Then you have a right-click option. Save page as... |
| 20:15.09 | industrial | what if I want to queueu 30 zips |
| 20:15.13 | industrial | -u |
| 20:15.17 | Dagmar | Then use a download manager |
| 20:15.19 | Arrowmaster | use a downloader plugin then |
| 20:15.28 | industrial | why! its so weird :| |
| 20:15.33 | Dagmar | You might as well be asking "What if I want it to make custard." |
| 20:15.43 | industrial | I don't understand the problem |
| 20:15.45 | Dagmar | You'll be sh*t out of luck. Browsers only make flan. |
| 20:15.49 | Arrowmaster | but really if a server isnt sending the proper mime type for something very standard like zip files then the server is really fucked |
| 20:16.05 | industrial | its a binary file, not served as a webpage? great apply download rules -> download it |
| 20:16.22 | Dagmar | That's what it does, yes |
| 20:16.56 | industrial | why should incorrect servers incapacitate my browsing experience |
| 20:17.00 | Arrowmaster | trust me its better than IE's method |
| 20:17.35 | Dagmar | "WE LOVE THE FILE EXTENTION .LOL" |
| 20:17.35 | industrial | wonder if theres an addon to force download all files |
| 20:17.35 | Dagmar | Hating on IE is like steak |
| 20:17.35 | Arrowmaster | try making an text/plain page with no file extesntion so text that includes < and > |
| 20:17.51 | Arrowmaster | it will not do it |
| 20:18.06 | Dagmar | industrial: Try the computer lab in your local mental health facility |
| 20:18.37 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: We had an issue with that when I worked for the medical records place |
| 20:18.50 | Dagmar | We had to tell people to just NOT use IE, period. |
| 20:19.01 | Arrowmaster | my friend was trying to get some scheme source to show as plain text on his server, IE didnt recognize the file extension so it treated it the same as not having one |
| 20:19.12 | Dagmar | It had this distressing tendency to refuse to display certain _files_ properly, no matter what we told it |
| 20:19.23 | Dagmar | Things like, peopel |
| 20:19.27 | Dagmar | 's x-rays |
| 20:19.49 | Dagmar | ...which is typically going to be a problem when a diagnostician is tryign to see if your ankle is broken and the browser won't display the xray |
| 20:20.16 | Arrowmaster | but yeah microsoft thinks that handling any text/plain mime types without a known file extension as html if they include < and > is a feature to assist their users because of broken web server configurations |
| 20:20.58 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: x-rays in an image format or some other special format? |
| 20:21.04 | Dagmar | TIFF actually |
| 20:21.09 | Arrowmaster | ah |
| 20:21.18 | Arrowmaster | IE has shitty image format support |
| 20:21.22 | Dagmar | At various times IE would decide to override the mime type |
| 20:21.47 | Arrowmaster | you even included the file extension right? |
| 20:22.10 | Dagmar | That wasn't something we'd intended to have to do |
| 20:22.17 | Dagmar | ...because the way http was designed, it |
| 20:22.21 | Dagmar | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:22.23 | Arrowmaster | yeah i know |
| 20:22.54 | Dagmar | Although after we did that we *still* found situations in which it would simply ignore everything and decide on it's own what type of file it had |
| 20:23.20 | Dagmar | I was a d*ck to the Microsoft rep who tried to talk to us about it |
| 20:23.35 | industrial | Dagmar: sorry what? |
| 20:24.17 | Dagmar | After we made the determination that IE was fatally broken and should not be used with the app becasue we couldn't guarantee that it would display things correctly all the time, we put a bit about why, citing specifics, in the documentation for the app |
| 20:24.28 | Dagmar | Some MS rep came by to talk to us about it |
| 20:24.41 | Arrowmaster | industrial: basically IE has a very strong tendancy to just fucking ignore the mime type from the server and make a decision itself on what type the file is, and its wrong a lot |
| 20:24.59 | Dagmar | All I heard him saying was "Wahh wahh don't pick on us there's other bad browsers and people are happy with IE you shouldn't upset them with thinking and reason" |
| 20:25.03 | Dagmar | I reacted appropriately. |
| 20:25.44 | Dagmar | One of the more amusing things it would do was to look at _the last three letters_ of the URL |
| 20:25.54 | Dagmar | Not the extention, you didn't need a dot. |
| 20:25.59 | mikma | i reject your reality and substitude my own |
| 20:26.13 | Dagmar | If your URL ended in a hash that just happened to have "rtf" at the end, IE would decide that it must be an RTF file |
| 20:26.16 | durcyn | i reject your spelling and substitute a snarky paraphrase of your outburst |
| 20:26.28 | Dagmar | durcyn++ |
| 20:27.02 | Dagmar | It drove us NUTS until we figured out why IE was being stupid about it |
| 20:27.04 | alestane | "Deep-seated hatred and dislike are two different things. They are as different as putting your foot in our your mouth and your head up your ass." |
| 20:27.10 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: i would have kicked his ass out the door, literally http://notalwaysright.com/paging-leonidas-to-the-front-desk/1218 style |
| 20:27.21 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: Well, I did say I was a d*ck to him |
| 20:27.49 | Dagmar | He left my office rather quickly. :) |
| 20:28.08 | Dagmar | "was a d*ck to him" <-- british understatement |
| 20:28.15 | Arrowmaster | good |
| 20:28.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Pew (n=Pewpewar@c-24-126-106-246.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) |
| 20:28.47 | Dagmar | Frankly, if our society were more flexible, I would have mounted his head on a pike outside the offices as a warning to any other spin doctors they might send. |
| 20:29.54 | Dagmar | ...in part because part of his "I'm not an engineer, but..." solution was to switch to IIS |
| 20:30.21 | Arrowmaster | yeah if it was me his head would be on a pike at that point |
| 20:30.39 | Arrowmaster | were you even using windows servers? |
| 20:30.50 | Dagmar | Gods no |
| 20:31.02 | Dagmar | THe only Windows involved in the entire thing was a Wfwg 3.11 box |
| 20:31.15 | Dagmar | ...which I was fairly unhappy with, but it was the only safe solution at the time |
| 20:31.29 | Arrowmaster | ok he was a salesman trying to get you to switch over to a complete windows based solution |
| 20:31.30 | Dagmar | The CC processing vendor we had only had a DOS app for running transactions |
| 20:31.42 | Dagmar | No he was a spin doctor, seriously. |
| 20:32.07 | Dagmar | He didn't want us saying IE was broken and telling peopel why |
| 20:32.54 | Dagmar | I had to do CC transactions by punting the data out of the HP/UX server across to a windows share that ran a script every day to trigger the DOS app |
| 20:33.15 | Arrowmaster | oh god |
| 20:33.17 | Arrowmaster | thats horrible |
| 20:33.18 | Dagmar | Yeah |
| 20:39.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Pew (n=Pewpewar@c-24-126-106-246.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) |
| 20:50.47 | Arrowmaster | time warner keeps calling and asking to speak to whoever is incharge of the cable service bills |
| 20:51.02 | kd3 | hand the phone off to a 3-year-old |
| 20:51.18 | Arrowmaster | i keep stalling because i know what they want (and plus im not the person whos name is on the account) |
| 20:51.31 | kd3 | bonus points if the three-year-old can carry on the conversation |
| 20:51.40 | kdtresh | a 3 year old would unknowingly sign you up for all the premiums |
| 20:52.10 | kdtresh | "do you like moves? yes. do you want to watch more movies? yes. thank you. <click> /endrecording |
| 20:52.14 | Arrowmaster | oh im at 104.77GB downloaded for the month already, figures they would call right now |
| 20:52.43 | kd3 | ouch, only a hundred gigs? |
| 20:52.45 | Arrowmaster | im at 203.47GB for the last 30 days |
| 20:53.35 | Arrowmaster | they want me to upgrade to roadrunner turbo |
| 20:54.51 | foxlit | Is that the "all the torrents you can eat" account type? |
| 20:56.14 | Arrowmaster | no its the 'pay us more money and get nothing extra' account type |
| 20:56.23 | kdtresh | more like the "higher bandwidth but we use deep packet inspection to block torrents" type |
| 20:56.46 | Arrowmaster | "Road Runner Premium enables us to offer the same great service but adds features that will appeal to high-end users who place a great value on speed. Road Runner Premium will appeal to customers who download music, _read newsgroups_, play games and use other services that are bandwidth-intensive." |
| 20:56.52 | Arrowmaster | haha |
| 20:56.58 | Arrowmaster | roadrunner killed their newsgroups servers over a year ago |
| 20:57.11 | kd3 | wonders if his isp still has a news feed |
| 20:57.23 | Arrowmaster | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:57.24 | Arrowmaster | 8 Mbps downstream and 512 Kbps upstream. As with the standard Road Runner service, actual speeds may vary. |
| 20:57.27 | Arrowmaster | lol |
| 20:57.30 | Arrowmaster | same speeds im getting now |
| 20:57.40 | Arrowmaster | roadrunner NEVER fucking updates their own damn website |
| 20:58.06 | Arrowmaster | further down the same page... |
| 20:58.09 | Arrowmaster | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:58.32 | Arrowmaster | dont even have the numbers the same on the same page |
| 21:10.45 | roastx | well like all cable its shared |
| 21:10.54 | roastx | but thats the speed you should get most of the time |
| 21:11.32 | roastx | mines 10/1 |
| 21:11.59 | roastx | so on like best connection ill get like 1.2MB/s |
| 21:12.15 | roastx | blizz downloader maxes around that |
| 21:12.25 | roastx | the client downloader |
| 21:12.55 | roastx | i could get 16 down but thats like twice as much heh |
| 21:13.53 | Arrowmaster | roadrunner has the powerboost crap too |
| 21:14.06 | roastx | playing games is not really bandwidth intensive heh |
| 21:14.23 | Arrowmaster | i regularly hit upto 1.4MB/s for the beginning of a file |
| 21:15.04 | roastx | premium will appeal to customers that download blueray rips illegallly off the internet |
| 21:15.32 | kd3 | "blueray rips illegally off the internet? where do I sign up!?" |
| 21:16.01 | roastx | please sign the following 20 documents in triplicate |
| 21:16.08 | roastx | you dont have to read them |
| 21:16.28 | Arrowmaster | trust me, the premium/turbo is absolutely nothing more than what i already have |
| 21:17.01 | roastx | do you guys get a usage quota |
| 21:17.09 | roastx | mines 95gb |
| 21:17.16 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 21:17.33 | roastx | if i want to go over that its up to 25$ extra for unlimited |
| 21:17.43 | roastx | like once i pass my cap |
| 21:18.00 | Arrowmaster | but they like to call, usually right around after i hit 100GB downloaded in a month, to get me to upgrade |
| 21:18.04 | roastx | i usually dont get too close to 95 so im fine |
| 21:18.24 | roastx | next step down is like 60gb tho |
| 21:18.30 | roastx | i know id pass that easily |
| 21:19.22 | kd3 | meh, part of me is glad I've got a crap connection... even with only 1.5 down I still get close to 100GB/month |
| 21:20.12 | roastx | i used to download random crap so i had bigger numbers heh |
| 21:26.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Norsken (n=xkxaxn@84-217-9-130.tn.glocalnet.net) |
| 21:26.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Cralor` (n=Cralor`@c-98-216-219-153.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 21:29.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (n=Cide@h161n1-far-gr100.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 21:29.00 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 21:34.50 | Cralor` | How can I set up ChatZilla to automatically sign me in? I had to re-install it and I forgot what I did :) |
| 21:35.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Riffage (n=nnscript@78-86-205-138.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 21:36.22 | Cralor` | nevermind, found it |
| 21:53.49 | Cide | hi |
| 21:56.00 | *** part/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 21:59.07 | cog|work | no u |
| 22:07.33 | *** join/#wowuidev dardack (n=chatzill@cpe-74-76-2-249.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 22:08.11 | dardack | ok i'm trying to have tabs to open up like different pages on my addon's gui, is there a good place to learn this paart? |
| 22:08.18 | *** join/#wowuidev batbot (n=batbot@batbytes.com) |
| 22:20.45 | jnwhiteh | dardack: any reason not to use the built in UI panel, and have the "tabs" there? |
| 22:20.55 | jnwhiteh | seems that makes the most sense, and is easy. |
| 22:32.29 | NeoTron | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:33.02 | Cide | likes his 100/100 connection |
| 22:40.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 22:40.46 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 22:48.52 | foxlit | Is the EU pirate day now or in 2 hours? |
| 22:49.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (n=chatzill@62.242.38.50) |
| 22:50.00 | Adys | foxlit: now |
| 22:50.24 | foxlit | Now it is. |
| 22:51.56 | *** join/#wowuidev zanthor (n=zanthor@173-29-150-102.client.mchsi.com) |
| 22:52.45 | zanthor | Cruciform, trying to parse your XML export with PHP (since I fail at XSL), and having trouble... |
| 22:53.52 | zanthor | maybe someone here can help, http://pastebin.com/m4a65b50f is the code, http://archive.botbh.com/ksk/ksk.php is the output, for some reason the foreach won't iterate past the first list |
| 22:56.01 | dardack | jnwhiteh: what you mean built in UI panel? guess i'm a bit confused, i've always written my own GUI panels |
| 22:58.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Pneumatus (n=WiN@unaffiliated/pneumatus) |
| 22:58.53 | tem | dardack, hit escape |
| 22:58.56 | tem | hit interface |
| 23:00.02 | dardack | ok |
| 23:00.28 | tem | why aren't you putting your config there? |
| 23:01.07 | dardack | guess i just never have |
| 23:01.23 | dardack | and don't know how |
| 23:01.27 | *** join/#wowuidev cbreak (n=cbreak@217-162-238-189.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 23:01.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (n=callahan@74-132-200-5.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 23:04.20 | Cide | hi Shirik |
| 23:06.18 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR (n=brandonm@24.114.252.243) |
| 23:14.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@cpe-67-246-40-12.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 23:14.26 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 23:16.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal_ (n=callahan@74-132-200-5.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 23:30.46 | *** join/#wowuidev yaroot (n=yaroot@116.234.195.62) |
| 23:33.01 | dardack | how do i remove an item from a list and have the rest of the list shrink down, ie t= {1, 2, 3, 4} and if i removed 3 t={1,2,4}? |
| 23:36.57 | ScytheBlade1 | table.remove(t, 3) ? |
| 23:49.15 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (n=p3lim@241.209.202.84.customer.cdi.no) |
| 23:55.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@124-170-123-52.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
